20 Episode results for "Spring Hill"

Herbalife

Don't Quit Your Day Job

06:11 min | 7 months ago

Herbalife

"Hello everyone this is Dr Craig and this is my fifth episode trying to do better job. Hopefully it's working out. Okay have to learn how to add it now. Looking forward to that at in the podcast video can be somewhat complicated but I wanna I wanNA jump into his. I was on facebook today and Have a lot of Followers on air and I was reading one particular post where a woman was talking about. How she her husband lost his job. And I'm imagining right now. That a lot of people that are not working because it is corona virus or having a tough time. And I've been there done that when I was younger. Even when I was in my forties and fifties but she went on to talk about how she had her husband's backed. So what did she mean by that corps? She loves her husband. No the woman personally and she talked about the fact that she supports and now if I look at what she's doing she has a plan. B. That's very lucrative and I'll tell you what she's doing she is into herbalife and I use the product I when I cycled everything I use the CR seven and we also used a meal plan. And she's doing this with a club in Spring Hill Florida. And she does very well with it. She coaches and she Works with some other people. She actually works at one. Place called evolved nutrition. There's another one in Brooksville. It's the downtown loser and I've been in there and when you go in the blenders they're going a mile a minute. I mean they're making shakes. They're making T- they're doing this. And if you know anything about Herbalife is a you. Joy To you can buy the product just by itself or you can buy the product and become a distributor. So she happens to be a distributor and she's also a fitness instructor so she does have a job during the week and a lot of those women are in that facility vol nutrition have jobs during the day and they do this in between weekends six tonight at night and they're in there so I've been in the air and usually shade about five bucks which isn't too bad but you figure that you're drinking something. That's very nutritious. And the flavors are out of this world so this particular woman feel safe because she has something to fall back on or actually. Your husband has something to fall back on. And that's what she has and there's a lot of women that do yoga. They do fitness Coaching quite a few things that I see on facebook women do. I don't see a lot of men doing herbalife. I liked the product I use a lot. My wife uses Her for nutrition and also weight lost but I was touched by the fact that what she was saying is exactly what. I'm trying to convince everyone that you have to have a plan and I know I say that a lot plan B. You have to have something to fall back on and most of the time. It's something that you really have a passion for so the question is what is your cash as I mentioned before my passion is running cycling events and I do fairly well with the right now. Nothing's happening no-one signing up. They've canceled all the events. It's tough but yoga and fitness is doing very well and you can actually do it online. I've seen a lot of different programs that are presented on Youtube but when I look back at the herbal life there are a lot of women in that particular establishment in that area that go in get to particular shake and try lose weight and the women worked together on it. Dic- any man a few and I think they were probably with their wives but they're really passionate about it and that's good because they're probably making a pretty good living with a part-time job that's added to their full time job. So something happens like this particular gentlemen lost his job. His wife is in herbal life. So she's continuing until he finds another job. Let's say she wasn't married she'd have something to fall back on in the fall back on is her passion because I know her personally and she loves it. The women that go in and partake in herbalife there buying it or they're binding or distributor. They have their own coaching. They love it and I've seen other women that do yoga massage on the side. All kinds of things. They're really living their passion. And it's great so that's one particular area that a lot of women a few men Used to supplement their income. There are weekly job and it works out very well.

herbalife facebook Dr Craig Spring Hill Florida Youtube Brooksville instructor
#175 Levels of Legalism

Theocast - Reformed Theology

46:11 min | 1 year ago

#175 Levels of Legalism

"Hi this is Ryan and in this episode. Theo cast the boys are talking about legalism. If you're going to be a good Christian you must do. You have to wait for the answer. Sir Actually No. We're actually talking about the levels of legalism. Is it it. Can somebody be more of a legalist than another. Can you be so entrenched in your freedom that you actually turn into to a legalist what I know. The answer is actually yes hoping to the podcast welcome. Pugh Theo cast confusing tournament a reformed perspective we are excited to give you Jesus Christ each and every week this your first time listening thing to Theo cast. We encourage you go to our website. The gas dot org you can find over one hundred seventy five episodes there that cover all kinds of areas of reform theology and we also also to kind of help you come up to speed with a little bit of what our podcast is about language that we use. We have a free primary. It's called a primer and pike. Doesn't we explain what is where it came from and donned why it is that we started this podcast and then we kind of expanded that book into a larger book that you can buy it's called. Pilgrim's guide to rest and that's where we try and explain to you. The the Christian life is about resting finish work of Christ and not about trying to earn that sounds crazy. Basically it's an expansion on the podcast first and then like I said before we have one hundred seventy five episodes of cover a lot of topics over the last three years and in order to have access to that you you have to have our total access and that's available to you and in that there's educational series where we have multiple different classes that we've taught on biblical theology reforms spirituality of Church history and then at the end of every podcast we do a bonus podcast called the unfiltered and that's where Jeremy Loses his self notes getting. That's where we kind of have a post conversation. It's when we turn the podcast off and kind of sit around the table and talk about John that they just really when I pose pose questions that just poke grounders y'all the grounders around or make you and I go at each other's throat. That's ultimately what happens in one of the things we love to do at the cast is answer your questions. We'd be doing this podcast long enough. We've had people listening long enough to where they listen to our presentation of a historic theology from the Bible level and then they say what about this so we love your questions. If you WANNA send those into us you can do so at six one five two one two nine two one two you can find that <hes> phone number on our website as well and leave those questions about thirty seconds that would be I think originally talked to the guy who sent us in the first audio used and <hes> he said man you guys you guys were Yukimi for weeks after that. I felt so bad it's not because they view he's from Canada to the learning not at or near Canada anyways around the theological octagon today to my left Jeremy Lists Associate Pastor of community church in Nashville Ryan Haskins senior pastor of of Community Bible Church in Nashville Byron who is still on Sabbatical flu. Returning soon is not around the theological outgun we miss your brother and then myself senior pastor of community church down in Spring Hill and today we get the cultural update from the infamous fearful and ooh always ready right askins half two-thirds of that was a lie very frightened most of the time and rarely early in my ready but that's just life yeah so life has been good being a senior pastor has its ups and downs on. It's a it's a awesome great learning curve <hes> I'm about four months and now to the spot having officially held the role a couple more months functionally holding the role but it's been a fun time and I have some uh-huh unfortunate news to the theo cast crowd but kind of necessary news I see this is the fearful part not really ah I'm on fearful. I have to make the same decision that Jeremy made we actually kind of made it outside of each other but then came together one Thursday afternoon randomly and said Hey. Here's what I'm thinking about the past. There's only twenty four hours in the day. There's only so much time and energy I can give and I have made the decision that I need to step away from. Theo cast as a contributor so that I can love my family and my church <hes> more effectively more efficiently. It's been one of those things as I've looked at all of the responsibilities disabilities kind of laid out in front of me I going church needs to have more time and energy just kind of the nature of this new position and so all good things must come to an end in the sense that Theo cast is awesome my hardest deal with it. It's been a hard decision to make because I haven't wanted to to pull the trigger and say okay okay. I can't do it all but that's ultimately what I've needed to do. Show up until June ish somewhere in there. I don't know actually one these. The podcasts are going to be announced. Basically I'm going to be a contributor through my sabbatical. which is the summer and then I'm going to step away? I'm still on the board. Hartsdale ministry still still love it so love that people get to hear Reform Theology and a gospel of rest and having Christ offered to them each week but I can't make the hard decision and go nope you know what as a pastor and as a dad. I got to step away for who knows who knows what two or three years may lead where. Theo cast is where I'm at you know I'd love to to some some point if it if if my time and energy allows come back and serve but at the moment I got to step away which means lanes of people have been paying attention and adding up I there was four then one one on a sabbatical and then and then a couple of weeks ago Jeremy said up okay. I got to step away now. I stepped away so Lone Ranger John over here. What is the plan. What because people are ultimately going to ask. Is this thing going away. What's happening so what they're yeah well before. I I did this without most people even realizing that I did this when I started my church two years ago. Theo CASS was an infant. It's super small. We didn't even we have a membership. It was really tiny and growing and Ryan kind of took over the brunt of the work of the past I could focus in on my church plan and so there wasn't really the time time commitment back then there is now and so I'm totally sympathetic towards that and I had this conversation with you guys. Do it said look I can record but I cannot do anything else that come out and you guys graciously allowed me to do that so the gas is very different level it is and even being on the board is still going to require some of your time. Just I have a quarterly level. I'm willing to do yeah so theo cast is absolutely a God willing and according to his sovereign will we do not have attentions of closing it down the the way in which originally started was four guys four pastors who were all on the same staff who will work together decided to have conversations publicly and and now that that we are no longer on the same staff except for two of you <hes> that makes it a little more complicated to have those types of conversations so we have to adjust the mission of focused remains the same and how we accomplish that will be just slightly different but our mission is to lead people to rest in Christ in a reform confessional national redemptive a historic understanding of the Bible kind of a Law Gospel Distinction and we're going to be really broadening the contributor ship of WHO's going to help speak into that <hes> microphone of the okay so we've actually got a lot of great interviews lined up coming up into the future but yes stay tuned <hes> we've got. We're still working on some of the adjustment. This is why Brian Jeremy have graciously decided <hes> through to stay on longer to kind of help us with that Transition Barnaby stepping back into the microphone here soon so don't worry <hes> the theology -nology will remain the voices may change slightly <hes> unfortunately my annoying voice is GonNa stick around for a little bit longer. Successor saying is as you can they can people can put their their anxieties because when they tune into their podcast APP every Wednesday from here until eternity. There's GonNa be via podcasts. Well coming to you as long as the numbers paying for the field. There's always that there's always that we need at the end of the day donate nate so money is there's always a road back to money yeah. If we don't have the finances to pull this off. It makes it a little harder because we have a team of people that we have to have in place in order to make this work works so otherwise I would be in the same spot that Ryan's in and I would need a backup because I cannot by myself carry. Theo Koso- enough about US yeah talk about Christ yeah. What's what is our topic for today John. Yeah I think once in a while we get the opportunity to pick whatever we want to talk about around the theological acting on and so I presented ended one to you guys and this is what I thought it'd be helpful there. I have been at through my life experience. <hes> been in Christianity not okay Christian but interest Hannity for my entire life. There's never been a moment where I was not being taught the Bible on a week to week schedule and one of the things that has been interesting for me to observe is what I call the level of progression in legalism so I I am. I I realized that when I was at the highest level of legalism in my life in we'll have to define this if someone's new to Theo guess what we mean by legalism that I thought that I was not legalistic and I always criticize people who were <hes> and then when I got out of legal legalism legalism in my mind when it kind of made this shift over to a new brand of Christianity I was like man those people they're stuck in their stuck in slavery or stuck in legalism off and it wasn't until five years later. I realized I was still in legalism. I had only shifted <hes> and so throughout history. I think there's been it's easy. It's easy to feel good about yourself. You live in freedom when you always comparing yourself to someone else's theological position and how they hold them and see themselves so real quick as a definition of legalism which we understand this is that there is the the Biblical term. That's used those who tried to attain salvation by the law that's one level legalism but Paul also talks about a level legalism where you are trying to gain your assurance or even favor of God through through your performance of the law or through your performance of someone else's lock is a lot times legalism is not holding to the law as much as it is a someone else's law this this is Colossians three where it says. Don't let someone put a burden upon you that cannot be found in scripture and then there's a third level which will get to and that is when someone finally actually gets to a point where they are living in true freedom. They're not living underneath the law trying to earn God's favor. They're not living underneath someone else's law. <hes> can't watch movies. Listen to music. Whatever you want to put out there dress code standards then there's a new law which is one that we are on the table have experienced and work through as well where there you are holding the legalist to the freedom of legalism meaning that unless you live at my level of freedom and enjoy all the things that I enjoy the way I enjoy them. <hes> you're not truly living in Christ so now we hold people to a new law and it's a new law of freedom. So that's kind of the the setup and I thought it would be fun to kind of walk through physiologically and just personally what that looks like because I know that every run on this table as walked through a different forms in different ways kind of walked through that I would call level of legalism in their history so let's just be honest. If you're a Christian. I don't care how good of a Christian you are. You're going to judge people and ultimately when it comes down to this whole conversation it is about who do you judge in who is judging whom and who gets the last say and how and who how does his judgement thing work then because ultimately with with legalism that's what's on the table is the one person to judge another person that they are not as good or at the or at the correct or at the proper position that they are ad and so will your lesser than your weaker than you are your insufficient efficient than me and the other person goes. I you need to be where I'm at and that I totally affirm John that I have been in that exact same position probably Amaneh position now because is the irony of legalism is one of those things that were blinded by what we don't know and so we go. I'm in the right spot. I'm not the I'm not the fool here and then five five years later when Your Eyes Open and you look back on your life and go I was just as much a fool then as I am now but there's a judgment and judging believer's is seen as comes up multiple times throughout scripture and legalism is at has its worst effect in my opinion not actually with the horse or with the vertical it actually the horizontal and here's why obviously if somebody is trying to earn in their favor with God and being legalistic to say in order for me to be a Christian in order in order for me to have entrance into heaven in order for me to <hes> gain favor with God. I have to do do these certain things and I have to check these boxes. That's a problem but frankly grace. God's grace can overlook that just as much as anything because has all of us go like is by grace through faith and have to do x Y and Z legalism has its worst effect at the horizontal level because it's when I look at you. Jonah go will you're. I'm not acting the way that I want you to act and so I'm going to judge. You and I'm going to try to press you into doing what I what I want to do. In at that point the irony is I.. It's that's one actually have the greatest issue with the vertical because I am becoming God because I'm saying my standard is the ultimate standard. My Standard is the truth truth but my under the truth. God's standards is always the truth but when Paul talks to the Corinthians about new the issue of eating meat sacrifice sacrificed to idols he calls one of the parties the weaker party the party that in their conscience cannot eat that meat and he calls them the weaker brother K and that's kind of what you were saying you we at this point where feel that liberty and then we start judging those who still you don't have that liberty and that's what you're saying what you're what you're pointing to. Ryan is the trouble in that whole mix isn't it's the issue isn't who's right and WHO's wrong. The issue is are you properly loving your brother and sister in Christ and he says if you are the stronger brother who have the liberty to eat eat the meat sacrifice to idols all the sons start burdening your brother <hes> hurting and wounding his conscience. You're no longer loving him and that that's the greater issue rather than rather than the <hes> legalism at hand. I think today in Allah the cultural today would be alcohol is one. That's probably as an example. It's no longer eating meat of idols that people struggle with it is alcohol and an eating of meat was a cultural issue within that culture because how can you eat something that was sacrificed to an false false. God people today say how can you drink something that causes so much damage image. There's excuse me there's one correlation there and I think this is the this is also say the same thing for why not wear the the modest swimming at the beach and I mean modest when we're not modest one piece like modest one more like covers the ankles and covers the wrists modest swimwear like this swimming swimming in a in a sheet sort of thing so it is eight goes and go wherever I mean this is where legalism is is not a is a fluid standard hindered not a hard set standards and sorry I distracted you know I would say the heart the heart thing about swimwear alcohols that with alcohol aw you're not supposed to get drunk with swimwear get wet well. The thing is with that. It's it's like there's some there's some cultural and biased opinions on those things that are I mean scripture. It's very clear if you're drunk. You're INCEN- swimwear. It's like a lot of it is personal. Opinion on people and I don't want to get into that but my point join is if I impressing a brother who's just like I just I just WANNA drink. I mean I understand. It's not sinful. I don't want to do it and you start pressing him in like well. If you were truly free in Christ future understood that the joy you could have you use you a drink in its at that moment what you're doing is you're putting a new law that person can't have the joy of Jesus and they can't have the freedom of Jesus and they can't enjoy Jesus unless they do it the way you do it yeah and that it is a law that's that you're putting a burden upon someone unless they see it your way and less they do it your way. This could be true of music. It could be true of dress. It could be true of style. I mean there's so many things that we do to people that unless you enjoy the freedom the way in which I enjoy freedom then you truly are not free and you're still living in legalism and shame on you you shouldn't do that. You should never try and do that. I mean this is the Jewish talmud which is the external or a secondary laws that replaced upon the old testament laws something like five hundred and something I forget the forget the number now when Jesus disciples are walking through the the <hes> Wheatfield and his disciples are picking the heads of the grain and rubbing them in their hands and his verses go. Why do you allow your disciples to do work on on the Sabbath well. This is a prime example of legalism in action because the one the pharisees their standard from the Talmud was you can't do any work and they had all they co- defied everything everything where well if you've got food and locations and if you walk so few feet between those locations you're not doing work. It's like at that point. You're going if you're just trying to get around the laws. They're not loopholes. ooh polls taxis almost harder. It's absolutely work exactly until so it's totally almost yeah but then what Jesus because no you're you're you're confusing things and that's what we do and as a legalist we place our own personal talmud replace her own personal secondary laws of okay in order for for for me not to sin. I have to do X Y Z and it is interesting what we do this in culture two so I grew up <hes> ignorant of certain sectors of culture because I just wasn't around one. My Dad didn't enjoy it or I wasn't allowed to participate in it and so people like you've never ever seen this movie or you've never heard this music so there's this immediate feeling of less than or your stupid if right. I'm GonNa Mike Well. I mean I'm a pretty pretty decent citizen and I'm a really decent guy. I didn't participate in that the my less of a human being because I've not and I do it to people all the time like if they've never seen thing naturally Brielle Mike. How dare you dare you not watch that you just showed reese Nacho Lebron for the first time? was he running around. It's an eastern movie. Yeah surely laughing. Hysterical is there is an Easter movie there. We gotta keep this G. Man but if you've seen it you know talking about can I just I want to go back to the weaker brother for a moment I actually want to use I corinthians as an example of <hes> some greater things are actually. I'm walking through. I Corinthians in our Wednesday Evening Bible study currently and just looking at sticky points in the church because there are a lot of these in it. It's actually kind of focused towards this of we come to Church worked with a preconceived preferences of this is what has to be but then once you get around other people that have the they're the exact same level of purposes preference preferences. That's it except it's different. That's where the issue comes all last two weeks ago in the last week. Whatever doesn't matter to you last week. Were talking through. I Corinthians in six. It's talking about marriage. Paul has seven sorry. The chapter thing was covering. The Paul has a very says a very interesting thing about two to the married into the widows and says to the unmarried into the widows. I say that is good for them to remain single as I am which is like okay great then Paul says this but if they cannot cannot exercise self control they should marry for his better for them to marry than to burn with passion so I I read this verse somebody in the in in the group razor hand and said how dare chair Paul. This person was married. How Dare Paul say that. I don't have the self control and I had to get married. Are you saying that I'm lacking something because I had to get married and this is it is kind of a hard statement and the offensive part was. I don't want to be the person without self control. You're saying that I don't have self control. No I have self control. Why is it that you say because I'm married. I don't have self control and then you take that same offense and you take it over to the weaker brother next chapter later. No one wants to admit that there the week rather turn no windows. This is you know again. Paul were his fourteen for those who are weaker brother. Give them grace paraphrase that that verse fourteen one <hes> but no one is no one is willing to say I'm over here. I'm the week your brother give me more grace over here great and so there is an offensive side to this and that has the we have to take that into effect and into consideration when we're dealing with this conversation because no one wants to bet that they're the weaker brother other so here's the question that I think we should answer. Though what does that even mean. What is the weaker brother like when we say that just maybe somebody out. There's never heard that term. I've never heard a sermon on it. What does we brother main yeah when I come into contact with someone who is steeped in legalism. I mean truly their performance before. God Odd is what brings them assurance their performance per. God is what keeps them right with God and God's blessings upon their life and even really their salvation is dependent upon on their Bible reading their fight against sin their pro-life tithing. I mean all of that performance Bishop Sanity that I considered to be someone who is is a week brother because they are not held fast strong in the finished work of Christ of Colossians Paul says if then we've we've been raised with Christ seek to things that are above crisis seated at the right hand of God set your mind on things that are above and not on things on the earth just before that he is rebuking working people who are looking to control the flesh with the flesh and he's alluding to them being weaker in their faith so we think weaker acre meaning not strong lack ambition lack fortitude rights of when you when you tell someone. Someone they're weaker brother typically that person is not lazy and normally they really work hard at Christianity and it bothers them that you would say. WHOA WHOA WHOA I'm not week yeah as a matter of fact I'm more dedicated than anybody that I know and I think what Paul is talking about is not week in action and not we can commitment but as we can faith yeah because the emphasis of Paul's teaching is our faith in Christ go to every introduction of the Apostle Paul and he his either encouraging or affirming their faith to be held fast strong in Christ so I think really it's dealing with someone who is struggling with resting in Christ and if they're not the rusting in their own abilities he says I think they're weakened faith. Well I would say the the only addition that I would add to that. Get it. I completely agree. It's obviously not physicality. It is a it's a faith idea but really it comes down to not what they do and do not do but it's why they do. Their belief do not do other things you really comes down to conviction level <hes> and I also understand you have to in order to judge appropriate. You have to take culture into consideration because culture is a is a God given entity into the the created order. <hes> there are there's culture in in the Animal Kingdom but to our knowledge it has doesn't change culture changes in the in the <hes> the human kingdom because if Paul were to come back you be completely offended by half the things we did and if we went to Paul's world we'd be completely offended by half the things that were there because it's a different from culture and we're not used to going to the Olympic Games and watching New People. That's that's actually the exactly what I was thinking about this yesterday because I went to visit a older gentlemen from our church. Who's WHO's in a nursing home hasn't come to church in a long time think he's nine six <hes> his his wife passed several four years ago and he's he's faithful guy and he goes. I'm waiting to be with my wife. I mean just kind of very sterile. No no kids but a faithful individual all we started talking about his sister-in-law live to the age of one hundred two while in so we started talking about this and I brought up how the oldest woman I.. I believe it's in the U._K.. Or Britain somewhere is a one hundred eight hundred ten. It was crazy yeah and she gave like in the interview. Everyone goes what's your key to longevity and I told him the store and she goes. I've I've had a glass of whiskey every single night of my life. Since I can remember to isn't this is the bottle. We're not shy about this run here. We drink bourbon. We like Bourbon whiskey with whiskey. Will this older gentleman goes. I've never tasted at stuff. That stuff is sinful cannot believe that that drink allowed her to to live to that age and and again can't faith faithful gentlemen half half the time. I was with them. We just sang hymns as he was just rattling off the opposite half of my new apple my did know we sing them together and. H- you'd be the last person on wanted to your weekend faith but at the same time if I were to have a glass of whisky in front of him he would it would bother me. Oh yeah and he's probably try to throw Walker wrapping totally cultural and that's the difference that church in America versus the Church in U._K.. Yes not saying that that the that lady was part of the Church in the U._K.. But you you go to the U._K.. And that's part of life is whiskey and beer and your ails yes so so a part heart understanding the weaker brother is on one understanding the Gospel so while the realized you know for freedom you know freedom crisis set you free go lavigne at relations four five four or five <hes> and and then it's understanding. Here's how culture interacts with the Gospel this. Here's the two to kingdom perspective. Here's the intersection between <hes> the world in Christ and how this all works out and this is where Paul is is wonderful because again it's he's not coming in like a bowl and China shop saying come on come. Come come to me be like me. He says in you know what I observed the culture and I became the culture to do. I became like a Jew to those without the law became like those without law he says is to to the week I became week why because all I care about the gospel of Jesus Christ and if I have to quote unquote lower myself it's not really what he says but if I have to become like them so that they will hear me and hear the Gospel Jesus Christ so be it. I don't care right and the goal well is the goal is not to gain perfect unity within within everybody's preference because I would say the majority of differences within the Church are not issues of theology the issue of preference so well. I the only I would say the goal is actually is to gain unity no unity on the Gospel driven understanding ending that if Jeremy and I agree on the Gospel in we disagree on how we're GONNA vote politically or disagree on our preference in drink or whether we do or do not drink or preference in dress preference in dance or preference or in its preference sake. It's not a black and white issue. It's a gray area of life in my opinion is more grey areas the black and whites whites that just me clear that there are the black and whites do don't do this do this of course but the majority of life has gray area if I have to agree with him on every preference that's may turn trying to turn into a robot right and this is this is what I was getting it. That's all no. That's okay what Paul centers the Church around is the Gospel so for instance. If you go to Beijing chapter four he says and what do we know of the first three chapters. It's like the glory of Christ in its highest beam. It's like headlight high beams are on and he's is just illuminating. Jesus Christ then he says okay guys now it's time to walk worthy in the matter of which you've been called and he does not go to individual holiness or personal personal holiness he goes to the unity of the Church but take note. It's around the Gospel and he says that the Gospel causes us to set aside aside our personal preferences for the sake of the unity. He says do not let anything come in and disrupt the unity of the which is interesting here spirit unity of the spirit the spirit of regeneration that draws us together what causes more fractions within relationships and in churches or personal preferences. We have to learn to set aside the difference between a God given imperative you will do this and a gray the area personal preference yeah and we as <hes> typically <hes> as someone who's grown up in a more conservative background what we call a Victorian background they usually take a culture of the nineteen forties and try and say nope that's Bible <hes> and if you don't look like this time period then you're not living according to scripture in I would say <hes> you have to be careful here because what you are deeming to be law from God is not in scripture. It's is a very gray area. <hes> you know. I was asking some of the other day. How long should a sermon be. How long should you worship service. Be How long how many times the Sunday should you meet. How many times a week should should you me. I mean there's just so many areas that we put law and I go listen. You do realize freedom here because we are given certain things preaching of the word structure of the Church Church baptism communion and discipline are must but there's even flexibilities on how you do that. It's like there's not even we have to use wisdom system and so the the horrors bring this up is that if the Gospel is the centerpiece Jesus Christ as a centerpiece of a church we must keep heap that centerpiece and from that just go back and read equations when he's talking about husbands love your wife's. Why should you love your wife. AS CHRIST LOVES THE THE CHURCH GIVES HIMSELF UP for the church right to always back on the Gospel his Paul's Theology we tend to separate theology from the Practical Paul's theology theology and practical just bleed together and that's why like you said infusions may sign about marriage in Philippians when he saying consider yourself consider others more significant. It's getting yourself so he points right back the Gospel. Why because that's what your savior did try everything he sees no division between the the theology and the and the practical it's all every all the practical just flows right out of the out of his theology of the Gospel? Now I tell you this you know who Jesus did not have patience with list the belligerent legalists yeah he was not patient with them as a matter of fact because he understood the damage that they were causing those who were under the way to the law and clearly were being broken by it. What did you say to them. Come to me all you who are weary and they'll give you rest. I think there's a side where we have to you know as Christians. We have to be careful when someone who is keeping law and they are belligerent about it. Paul says do not disclose since three. Do not let them do that. I mean he specifically says. Let no one pass judgment on you as question of food or drink yeah so. Here's the issue with all of this oftentimes. The weaker brother seems TMZ is if the hardcore legalist and so you have to treat them with the <hes> you know with the sledgehammer of be quiet you're trying to pull people away from the Gospel but in fact they just just haven't learned they haven't been taught. They haven't kind of come. Come to the understanding of Oh. That's right. I can rest in Christ in. It's not what I do and so there. Is this how we approach. These people can be hard. Here's an example on a look at the cocaine facebook group. I've had this thought of my head. I've never said it out loud because I'm a good Christian like that or type two or type. I know I've never typed it but I've definitely thought somebody will be asking in question on be like. Why are you asking this. We've covered this. We have one hundred and seventy five episodes on this. Why is it that still asking the same question that we were asking at the very beginning and you're struggling with the same thing Yada Yada Yada Yada and in fact what I'm struggling with. They're not at my position but maybe they just they. They're just hearing about this for the first time. They're just seeing freedom. They're jeff coming to the light and it's like Oh that's right. I need to be a little more gracious enter at times. I would say I've seen I have seen that on. The facebook for people will be like Gosh Gosh stupid you should you should learn this by now but it's it's just everyone is learning but I think the harder part with this conversation. When most of the time when legalism comes up it is we are we give credence to the fact that you can be hard nosed on your freedom and that you can offend people with your freedom because it shows them the Gospel. I don't know how many people that I've met that that's what they do. They see freedom and they run towards it and they they they're completely. We unloving towards her brother who still further behind them week though they may be whether they want to admit it or not but they are. They denied I the love of Christ in the realities of the Gospel. I think Paul speaks of so I can just read. This is from Romans fourteen. Verse Thirteen says this therefore let us not pass. Judgment on one another any longer but the cy but rather decide never to put a stumbling block or hindrance in the way of a brother and that's hard because what that means is is okay. Maybe towards the weaker brother. I'm not going to do something I know in unpersuaded in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself. There's freedom but it is unclear if anyone anyone who thinks it is unclean for if your brother is grieved by what you eat you're no longer walking in love by what you do do not destroy the one for whom Christ has died and so it's a if he continues there but essentially it goes on and it says if somebody is stumbling if there's a weaker brother around you and they are legitimately stumbling whether they look to be a legalist or not they're weaker brother and you are outright doing the thing which is causing them to stumble in in the facts that just to. I'm I'm going to show them. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA blame my freedom because I have freedom. Paul actually says in being nice to your brother. Go which that's the balance and so it's recently for me. I've I've come around to that like Oh. It's actually harder to be the the opposite weaker stronger. It's harder to be the one who sees freedom understands stands it because you then have to live in the end the do not the -plicitly but in in in that difficult relationship of their some people who see it to be okay and some people it or not and there are some people who will call you bliss because you're willing to do certain things with others in your unwilling to do certain things with others because one can handle it and one can do you think. Paulo is talking about stumbling because the only stumbling that goes on in certain preferential contexts are judgmental as you're. You're causing him to stumble and being they're. They're committing the Senate judgmental. Ism You follow. What I'm saying. I think is an offensiveness. That's unloving right but there's whether they judge you through that yeah. I don't think it is knowingly offend like I would never to. The gentleman who I now know didn't know before watching the room now know that completely Li Li against whiskey to that gentleman I would never walk in and knowingly you know. Here's a glass of Bourbon Buddy yeah. I guess the problem is is that you come to a level. Where how do you compare that to Colossians when it says don't let people pass judgment on you and he says according to food to drink. I think it's the balance of how do you love your brother by not causing them to stumble and not causing them to judge about. I guess that's my point. What is stumbled me because in my mind is like for instance. I have a guy who can't drink because he's got a problem with alcoholism. I'm not going to pressure him into drinking that I because go back into sin right yeah so these says hey look don't pressure. He's free to drink. He's free to partake but don't make them do that. Yeah cause. You May Cause Them To stumble that that is legitimate versus there I understand. How are you going to be in the deer person's presence? That's what I'm saying is in a context where you allow one man's man's preference to dictate the churches culture. I go <hes> that's casting. This is not. I'm not making this verse to be a <hes> a classical mandate that the one weaker brother in the church gets to set the preference for the entire body. I'm looking at it as interpersonal right. This isn't interpersonal relationship performing ago. If I'M GONNA go with you and we're GONNA go together. It's something that that one of struggles with <hes> I would hope that you would love may not be like I'm not going to put him in that position in the same way that I love you enough to not what you in in that same position and so it's not church as necessarily it's it's individuals now. If it's a cultural thing and you do go to you know a different culture that and and you do have to change inch things because it's like well the Gospel allows this culture or a dozen then then it could affect church as a whole and we we're we're also called to allow people to to live in their weakness plumbing rebukes them in that and said you should be eating the meat in your I only point. I picked this out. I'll get the pushback and it's appropriate. I get the pushback of no we're going to. We're going to keep going down the path towards freedom totally get that. I'm I'm not saying race. Those what I'm saying I agree with what you're saying. And what so what I'm saying is the grace part at times is gone. People have lost that then people have become come jerks absolutely into this is where people have become unloving towards the church because what they don't realize is <hes> your actions will affect back church. Your actions will cause tradit- unity because you are so offensive and then hide under the auspices of freedom that your unloving and what what is what does Paul go in First Corinthians because you have all these gifts but if you don't have love your nothing there's also something to be said in these discussions and as we're dealing with folks who have different standards than we do <hes> just if it depends on if the gospels at stake so you have this older gentleman woman who you met you mentioned this other older lady drank whiskey every day eight says Oh. I can't believe that that sin he's not saying anything. Antithetical Gospel right there no he's not denying the Gospel by saying that drinking whisky is sin no issue Paul on the other hand walking in and seeing Peter Dislodge refusing to eat with the gentiles and only eating with the Jews understands. There's a gospel issue at stake back and I'm not going to wait to Pope Peter aside privately. I'm going right there in the middle of everyone say. Hey Peter. What are you doing yeah because is the key saw the Gospel was at stake you have you have someone like you. Were just mentioning. Who has a past of alcoholism? You're not going to be putting that his fate alcohol on his face because if you do you're going to see your his conscience and you're going to just weaken his faith in that matter. It's not a it's not at this point pointing. This guy's life is not a gospel issue at hand. No he doesn't believe that it's a sin against God. He's just kiss so it's an easy thing to give preference to him and say Yeah I don't. I don't need to have my whole liquor. Cabinet pulled out on my on my counter when he comes over or I don't need to be constantly offering him something or drinking in front of him 'cause I. I don't have to drink because I'm not going to see your his conscious. I'm not gonNA bother him. I know he's got he's. Hey has this issue try. It's no big deal. Okay passers. Here's I don't know we can answer this and they felt we're gonNA have to here. Here's where this does affect the church Josh John. You okay so I have not this. This man you're talking about is struggling with alcoholism had that in the past would you then. You're your men's Bible study. Would you have it in a brewery a lot of them. Do <hes> or would you have it at a coffee shop. Where there's no alcohol there and <hes> you know he's not? GonNa Dispersion is not going to be tempted because there's a lot of people the way that it goes well there could be somebody tempted tempted. So are we going to adjust their church services in our meeting places so that we can <hes> allow you know time for the weaker brother so is is that appropriate then knowing. You're somebody who struggles to change location of. Let's say men's Bible Study <hes> which is a you know it. It is a part of the church. It's a it's a church event obviously but it's not the main worship service. Would you change the location with the understanding that this guy struggles and the sky is GONNA DOT COM. Should we answer that unfiltered. ooh probably yeah. That'd be a good unfiltered because I mean. Let's be honest. I think every churches had this discussion Russian. Every person has had this discussion I think I think that's hard to make. I'M GONNA I'm not gonNA answer it. I will answer the filter but I would say up front. That's a great example and I don't think there is a it's not a black and white issue. Of course I think you have to it is a case spy case scenario. You know the guy we have to be. We have to be careful in that course yeah like for instance <hes> if a father yells at a child are you never. GonNa allow them to work in children's ministry because it's you know what I'm saying but if a man abuses a child child. That's not going to happen so if there's an alcoholic. WHO's abusing alcohol. Would you ever allow him to would you have at it comes back to the same same thing of les how at what point do you allow the weakness of an individual to affect the the <hes> the the situation of the whole. No I agree and I think that you you have to be wise in certain circumstances and yeah so there's it'll be interesting discussion discussion on that no but I wanNA. I do mount a yeah I want to conclude for. We closed down. I do my encouragement to everyone. That's here is that if you've been listening to focus for a long time or if you've just joined us please note that the driving force behind our decisions and responses to people has to always be the cross of Jesus Christ we look to the cross and understand that our sins are put upon Christ there it is where we refined find our redemption we find our righteousness imputed righteousness we rest in the finished work of Christ and if I if the today me could speak to the twenty one year old who who got married twenty two year old who got married was highly steeped in legalism I would have so much patience Gracia with that the young man because I understand that it is a process in a time where God has to through His grace in the power of the spirit peel back so much that controls her mind so if you are in a context where you have someone that struggles with performance base Christianity and they realized that they are caught in what we call Victorian Christianity where it's all about victorious Christian in life performance do not be so harsh with that person be patient because this is why there's no way you could ever take credit for your knowledge and your freedom that you live in right now if it wasn't for the power of the spirit to lead you to this place so if you have a family member or friend or someone in the Church that is still steeped in legalism do not judge them do not be impatient with them and do not cause them to feel as if they are stupid and weak love them be gracious wishes with them. Labor with them be patient with them because if it was not the patients and labor of someone else you would not be where you are today. That's how well it for them all right well. Thank you for listening to Theo cast. If it's not for our members those for you that donate to our ministry we would not be able to continue to have these resources available for you so thank you for everyone who is Alexis member and thank you for many of you who donate on a monthly basis to our ministry that is <hes> <hes> these financial resources that allow us to continue to have all that the cast has and for those of you that want to continue the conversation you can get a fourteen day trial or come over to theo cast best unfiltered feed. We'll see there and we'll see you next week. Thank you for listening to Theo cast. If you'd like to contact us or find out additional information about our membership you can do so at Theo cast dot org.

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Patrick Rivers of 3 Days Under

We Are The Body Radio Podcast

26:35 min | 5 months ago

Patrick Rivers of 3 Days Under

"Hey everybody thanks for tuning into. We are the body ready Radio podcast I just want to say quickly before we get onto our episode that all of this is don thanks to the power and the technology that anchor dot f. m. has provided to me. With their free act. And their free recording software built into the APP. They make it super easy to get a podcast on. So here's what I challenge you to do if God has something that he has put on your heart. My challenge to you today? IS TO DOWNLOAD ANCHOR DOT FM. And? Give it a shot. Make a podcast and let people know God wants you. To put in their hearts. All Right God. Bless everybody. Thank you so much for listening I. Love You. Onto the episode. Hey Nick, where the body radio and today I have Patrick from three days under a patrick how you doing what's happening man thanks for having me. It's an honor to have you man I've been listening to you guys for for a few months now probably since the beginning of the year and I'm really liking what I'm hearing and I like the fan engagement that you guys have going on especially during this time. Where we can't get out to to sea bans right now you know we're still waiting period I. Think I think I've seen a couple festival still being planned for July so To that. Yes I hope seeing our entire booking has been wiped so far. So we have a few things lined up but nothing like it was. Yeah. Yeah. I can only imagine I'm I'm an artist too but I stick to I'm local here Spring Hill Florida and right But still I mean I can't even get a coffee house gig right now. So Right Yeah it's it's getting tough out there but. Thank. God for the Internet because you were able to use that as a tool and you guys just a couple of weeks ago, right did a or maybe even sooner than that did a live stream concert and it was a great. Weeks go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah and it was great. You guys did really good with it. You had a lot of good fan engagement. How was it? How was it on the other was a different not having the audience directly in front of you or? It was definitely different but we. We always operate under the guise of whether it's one person there or thousand able there. We're going to give the same energy We're used to were used to feeding off each other anyway So it was one of those. We're just happy doing what we do and giving the opportunity to give people hope and something especially in something. Like this lockdown where everybody's stir crazy and everybody wants something new and and just to give them a taste a normalcy was the whole antenna. Go I. Think it went off went over pretty well, see us out we expected. maybe fifty years tune in. But at the end of the the livestream nurse think took over twelve hundred people that doomed in to watch the live stream. So yeah. So yeah, it was definitely a lot of people. And it was awesome. That was really good. He has degrade. Thank you. What else is going on in the world of three days under when you guys writing writing. Writing writing this. our freshman release as doubly that we put out in two thousand, eighteen That was that was good as a good effort I. Guess you could say but it. It does reflect our potential and though we aren't, we are proud of it. We are proud of the work we put into it There's we have so much more to offer and everything that we're riding now. Planning on we're planning on ugly having something recorded and released by end of year as far as new album goes twelve songs ten to twelve songs But we ever it so far. You heard if you if you tuned into the live feed, you heard quite a bit I think at least four or five of those songs and so. Yeah we're just we're just really focusing on writing and honing our crafts. Really Nice. Yeah, and writing is big is a big part because you have to think of you know which direction you want to keep going with sound and it's not just it's not just about lyrics is not just about you know. Guitar, it's keeping that same audio mission. I don't know how to put it in words like that but you're you're you're. Having that same audio Shawna. Yes you WANNA keep when you turn on the radio you WANNA know it's it s three days under when I when I turn on the radio and just hear this snippet of a song I'll I'll want to know what what, what listening to and so I think we've kept that but But yeah I mean. It's definitely more in your face and more aggressive and more chess thumping. I. Guess You can say Yeah. I'm looking forward to hearing the new music. I think it's awesome what God is doing with your ministry. You Guy you guys have the kind of music that somebody who listens to just. Secular music on a daily basis would hear you guys and say Oh wow. Right and WANNA listen to more and then finally catch that. You, know. Was that? Is that a Christian so these Oh Wow. Jesus overtones one of my listening. Let me look up other. Christian. Bands and boom. You guys dominated seed. You didn't even know about. I can't say that that was that was the initial mission because we definitely We. Don't. We don't hide the lyrically what at what our songs about but it so happens that on some of our songs are getting played on secular radio stations and people are like, wow, like you just said The I didn't know that was a band I mean so I mean. It's good. It's good because we can got to do what the world been doing to the church in sneak ride into the world and Kinda Kinda. On the backside. So. How did? How did three days under get started? Who Had the vision and and I know? From personal experience, it doesn't happen overnight. Actually, I was I was I had another band before this one and. The guys that were in the band they just they were like, we just kind of WANNA stay local you dream too big and so we're kind of out. and. So but in their defense at at that point in time I was still relatively young in my in in in strong faith and so I let numbers and facebook likes and everything Of kind of cloud, my vision of what God wanted anyway. And So God. Really happy on a journey for about a year doing a solo gig wrote and released a a single It's called breath and it was turned out really really good and I. Probably could've made a push for to do something so low but I was in prayer one, nine God I really want my band back. And He said okay. I'll tell you what I'm. GonNa give you that band back. But you're going to do it my way and you're GONNA call it three days under, and that's going to represent the three days that my son went to elder retrieval because rightfully mine you'd like can you do that? Okay if that's what you're giving me go ahead. And so awesome. I jumped the gun and rushed and tried to put but the people in place and We played one amazing show. Our first show with that incarnation was there's like seven hundred, eight, hundred people there and It was a recovery event but right after that show everybody wanted to go different direction I think those guys are playing country music now. And so that's when I kinda went back to the drawing board Okay God, what who do you want here and that's what he's. He played Nathan. I the drummer he played Nathan in there and we had dinner over Mexican food and I had mended. WORKED ON GARAGE GARAGE BAN ON HIGH It was such a rough cut I still got that cut and it's terribly awesome. But I let him listen to that is like I'm in. I'm in. He's I'll be to the end you will. You won't be able to check me out. I'm GonNa die before before I, leave this van and then slowly Jamie came along and Kyle, and then thankfully we got we were blessed of another Amazing Guitar Player Robin Smith so I can put down the tar and carry a little more of the front manning load, and so it's just it's amazing how God has really rounded out this thing and the hardest these guys APP to. Yeah. So, that's how that really came about man. That's awesome. I know I know the the pain that it can be to have so many members in and out I know that struggle very very well, and it's funny. Because my my drummer. Michael He. is in it till the end and he was he just kind of happened to be there. You know he was the house drummer for. The Coffee House that I had just started jamming at and he just came up one day and was like, Hey, need a drummer. And I'm like. Yeah I. Honestly I didn't want to be mean so. I was. Yeah just you know if I was thinking like if somebody wants to jam with me. You know. Okay. Go ahead. And I was like I'll let them know he's like I'm the house drummer. I'm like, oh and. Then, after we clicked just like that and You know man you want to keep doing this he's like, yeah, I'm here every Friday and Saturday. But he ended up doing every gig with me outside of that place and he still does and and he's Only original band member to my band twelve twenty-seven other than myself. So yeah, I know what it's like to have them come in and out and and sometimes it's hard to let certain certain people go because they. Feel like they just have such a good fit and they happened with my my lead guitarist but you know it is what it is and we're still friends and everything. So right but yeah, got as a way of shifting around to make his is not mine so I'm okay with that. Yeah. Yeah. So that's awesome. Man have you ever thought about sparking up a solo career outside of three days under or no? This is the last. This is the last ride for me if this. If this really doesn't and out which I mean in my opinion, it's already been a success just with the lives that have been touched in. So I, it's already been a success. So after after this is went all hang it up. Now I I don't see a point in trying to rekindle or spark anything new or do anything different I have a great bunch of guys that I can't imagine play music without. That's cool. So? That's. Awesome. Well. I can see from from this from this interview. You know your heart is there and it speaking for human three days under is M- is more. than a band, it's a family to you and that's awesome because that's where the passion comes out in the music. You know we can hear that just from using on CD and just from watching you on gigs and watching you do live streams and watching you on this. It's it shows. A thanks man that's awesome. That's awesome. I've definitely been in prayer definitely about hearts and. We're actually has a band. We're getting back to our roots in that too. We just ordered some some material from Francis. To to rekindle some Bible studies before practices. That way we're fully equipped to go out and do what we do and do it for the right reasons not do for stage or or a fan base or paycheck or or whatever you know. So yeah, I always tried to live off of when I'm out doing anything. I don't think I've gone too far from home to show but. I've always gone out with you know even if I have two bucks in my pocket. And barely any gas. God set this up he's going to get there and he's going to get me home safely and that's all I need to know. So and it, and I'm glad I'm glad you drop that little curtis about shaky ban for five and a half hour one way trip down to Tennessee for leading. So so many my faith better rest in the Lord. Yes it has to travel. Definitely man and. I don't have a huge following when it comes to the music because I'm kind of in and out of it at times From for marketing either I don't like. Doing any of that I, just WanNa go and play but. Terrible. What are they? Necessary Events Nick. I know I know but I do it for this you now. But. For some reason I just I don't do it too much for the music. Unless I season or to that that. I will. Really, be in it other than driving the shows, but sometimes I get too excited and and that's what my flaws come out. And disappointment but. But it happens but you know. I'm used to maybe like seeing the same twenty to thirty people at each one, which is great. Having the same. You see twenty to thirty April Bro. We're we're lucky five or six. Another well the. This is the patrons in the coffee. Their. mind. But We. We do have like I'm lucky if we have like sick steady that go from the coffeehouse to if we do a festival though go over there. And they're also ministers to. So they go out and they have ministry opportunities, which is awesome. You know and The band is also based in a way as the radio we are the body radio so. Right and yeah I'm thinking away it's a blessing that our fan base is nowhere near our home We don't do a Lotta local shows just for the simple fact that you know the whole MC profit and hometown type deal You just don't Kinda Garner that support, and so we try to play two three hours away a most the time. So we have garnered some very, very loyal Amazing. Amazing I. They're not even fast. They're just amazing people who just they're just I love I can honestly say that love them. They're just amazing in their support. So yeah. Yeah, that's awesome. and. And it's good to have that as an artist. You know just even if it's just a small group of people that still matters because they're still there every time but there's been times where I've gone out and. I'll be the guy just play my guitar or sometimes I go out and rap and. There's just a whole bunch of people over there just doing their own thing and nobody's in front of me. Kinda now now you gotTA. You gotta you gotTa throw them bars nick I gotta here. Spend some fire Bro. All right. You tell me. If you search twelve, twenty, seven, the word twelve, and then. Colin twenty-seven on Youtube I, got I got a couple of wraps. All right. I'm going after this. And I thought that was the direction to go in and I still feel like it is but I need to put like some three days under behind it. That rap rock some rap rock. Yeah. Man Yup, like manifest or. And or like a like a Christian nineties kid. Rock. I could dig that Yep. Yeah. So what have you been doing in quarantine or now? Are you out quarantine were Outta? Quarantine I think there's still some relations I'm that guy really doesn't pay attention. Just because. It's It's I'll my personal views on his horn team. On a shelf, maybe maybe a private compensation but I just I've been trying to stay fit working out in the gym in my garage. Anyway, I just set up a home gym type thing very, very eastern Kentucky Redneck Jim, but a gym nonetheless. riding and and and just preparing for like those live feeds man those live feeds go to mount. Let people give him a sense of normalcy trying to stay prayed up. Eh through all this where they shut churches down and everything like that Out really discovered that if you need a building to To maintain your growth, then you're probably doing it wrong because the the relationship doesn't end when you walk out of the building on Sunday so I'm very I'm very blessed to God as a as a lead me through that and then of course, preparing for the little one do on July twenty third. So congratulations thank you girl. It's a this is a boy. Little? ally. ally. So that's awesome. Yeah we're pretty excited. Yeah. Well, everybody but the ten year old daughter she's little. have been the only kid for ten years. Now you're bringing another one long. So my girl I have two daughters and they're close together there about a year and a half apart. It's awesome. Kids Great. Indeed. Serve. Blessing. So all right man well. Do you have anything you want to tell the fans. If you've again, just go back if you've heard our music what's happened. Just don't feel like we're fairly represented from what we released. So just just wait for the new stuff it's coming and it's amazing Keep your head up This whole thing can't last forever I know it seems to be coming to a close and and whatever is going on regardless in our country with our politics or with a virus or anything like that odd has always been in control. He's never left his he knows what he's doing if worrying can't fix it which worrying never fix anything. So why do it right? I'm so Still. Just just rest in that than going to try to jump in Oh and we got that thing down an Lewisburg, Tennessee with grave denial and faith Ed, and we are the victory. Or we are victory down there and Lewisburg, this Saturday Awsat. As. Begins at ten goes from ten am to two. PM just some straight up rock rock and praise and and it's going to be amazing and they're gonNa have a revival that night in the following Sunday. So if you're in the LEWISBURG GENESEE AREA Over and we'll see there that's awesome. We just had. Patrick from faith. Ed. I Love P, man. Ryan from the grave denial ride on you. Good deal. Yeah. Did you plan this no. No? Ninety five coincidence mighty fine. Coincidence Reggia. Yeah. Definitely. fi we've played our one of our first shows faith head down in Nashville at a at a pizzeria. I, think it was in two thousand, seventeen, maybe early two, thousand and eighteen but it was a pizzeria slash armed by the time it was over there was a prayer circle in the middle of the bar at one o'clock in the morning with a bunch of drunk people and Christian rock bands of rain it was. One of those, you would you wouldn't believe it if it didn't happen. The so but it it's pretty amazing. I. Love those guys and it's going to get to see them again on Saturday style they're great. I became really good friends with with Jimmy. Singer Last year I did their their music video I. Think it was for the Song Genesis which is awesome. Song that came out really good too hard to do because. It was done. They sent me videos and then I just added in a bunch of Magic to it but It was really cool. It was really fun to do is one of my first video projects yeah. They're really great guys though that's awesome man. Yeah I. You know I can't wait to hear the new music and hurry up and come to Florida you know your way around here. As soon as things open up for us to get down that way we are coming to Florida. Yeah. So I've been kind of trying to play. I've put on a couple festivals out here. Not. Big. Big Festivals but local band concerts and And I've been thinking about trying to get a couple of bands together to do another one but but local and national bands and I know if I can get chaotic resemblance out here, they'd be out here in a heartbeat. So. I'M GONNA keep that in mind if I come across any opportunities of I'll send you guys a message. Definitely let us know we love the Sunshine State's We'd love to come down and play it. Yeah. We need more concerts down here. Yeah, we just need more concerts everywhere. There should be a concert going on in every neighborhood at any hour of the day. Eighty schedule nobody comes our coast over here. You're on the left coast. Yeah. You're in the Gulf. The. Gulf. Yeah and I liked the Gulf coast. Yeah. Wizard. I spent a lot of time live down there in Tampa clearwater area. Yeah. Yeah. We used to get a lot of we used to get a pillar every once in a while and disciple, and this is back in two, thousand and five. Petra even. Having to the same down there I don't know it just. Kinda. Deteriorated, it's all. It's even hard for local bands. Churches aren't opening the doors and big churches will. But if you if you've got fifteen thousand. You know. Fifteen thousand dollars, twenty thousand dollars show the big churches will open the door and we don't have Right I. I was blessed with a free venue. In Brooksville I don't know if you know where that is. but it was at a at a cool little hotdog place called Coney Island hot dog stand and they have a stage in the back that they built out of an old mobile home. It looks awesome And and they let us use their property for free to a couple festivals over there and that was pretty that's pretty awesome. So but the only thing was it was it was The same group of people would come out it was really hard to advertise because. It was just in a dead area. Right, right. In the Middle Woods all around the coney island hot dog stand. So yeah you need to be deathly in Ebor or something like that too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah So but There's there's hopes and I know the local bands out here are working really really hard on building the scene up and we've been at it for a couple of years, but it is getting better good. Yeah. Good. Good because the music scene here is dead there's literally nothing zero, Zip Zilch nothing. You don't go out and play shows here. You just don't you just don't is it's dead. BEEN DEAD FOR YEARS Unless your country artists, then you might be able to land a local bar somewhere, but still it's It sounds like it's happening everywhere. Yeah 'cause that's that's springhill you know and there's barely any bar. So even if you were a secular artists in Springhill, you'd still have to travel to Tampa Orlando to get a good gig or right I used to live in Pinellas county so I was able to. go out to bars along the Gulf coast and do gigs air you know Yeah Beach Music. But it's you know dad even got hard you had to be established and now everybody wants you to to make sure you got the following or were you don't play and Oh, it's become a little strip down there as it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah and it's and it's usually. Pay To play. In some places. Wow. Yeah man that's terrible. Yeah. No wonder the music sickness dying. Yeah it's bad. It's bad. Everybody makes money musician. Exactly. Yup. But you know it is what it is and there's hope there's thankfully things like this where I can get out and say, hi to everybody like this. And Every once in a while on my skateboard and do video to. Definitely man definitely there's always least there's the outlet. Yeah so but all right Patrick. It was awesome having you on the show today man great discussion. We look forward to hearing the new music. We look forward to seeing you live again and seem some more live streams You know keep us updated with everything that's going on and. And You know I might I might have you come back on a maybe in a couple of months. We sounds good man. Thank you so much for having me. We appreciate the sport brother. Thank you. Take care. lightermen sale.

Gulf coast Patrick TA patrick Lewisburg Tennessee Coney Island Gulf Nathan Springhill don Spring Hill Florida Nick facebook Florida Shawna Nashville Ebor Michael He.
Get Serious and Be the Grown-Up in the House (Hour 2)

The Dave Ramsey Show

39:57 min | 1 year ago

Get Serious and Be the Grown-Up in the House (Hour 2)

"Live from the headquarters of Ramsey solutions. It's the Dave Ramsey show work. That is dumb cash is king and eight off home mortgage has taken the points of the BMW as the status of choice. I am. Dave Ramsey, your host. This is your show. Thank you for joining us at your show because we talk to you. We really talked to you in that amazing stood of talking at you. The phone number's triple eight eight to five five two two five. That's triple eight eight to five five two two five. Will is with us in Chicago. They will welcome to the Dave Ramsey show. Dave, how are you better than I deserve? What's up? I just started graduate school, and I have twenty three thousand dollars in undergraduate loans, all of those loans have been on the Furman and all of them are subsidized that they're not accruing interest. I already have twenty five thousand dollars saved and can save about one hundred dollars a month from now for the next five years. So my question to you is do it take that one hundred dollars and start paying off my undergraduate student loan debt or put it into retirement or investment account. What is your graduate work in chemistry, and how long will you be doing great? You're gonna do five years getting a PHD. Okay. Well, the thing that. And how are you paying for graduate school? I got a tuition fee waivers. So for all, my classes, everything it's roughly a thousand dollars a year, and I get a stipend of twenty six thousand dollars a year, which is why can save roughly four to six hundred dollars a month. Why are you where are you living? How are you living? In the city of Chicago. I mean remain, okay. Twenty six thousand dollars a year you can live on and you have four hundred dollars left. Yeah. Okay. So you're living very frugally. Give or take. Okay. I mean, fourteen fifteen hundred bucks a month in Chicago's pretty frugal. Okay. Good. And all right. Well, here's the thing. The best investment will can make is in will. And in other words, the first goal of this whole conversation is for you to graduate with no more debt. You said you had how much in student loan debt today? Twenty three thousand dollars in student loan debt, yet I already have twenty five thousand dollars say it. So if I wanted to I can pay it off and mmediately right now, I would today and then everything else I would save not invest I would put it in a simple money market account. I'm not trying to make any money on it. In case. There's a bump in the road with your graduate work, and you need some money to complete it without borrowing money. So the first goal is for you to get out of debt. The second goal is for you to graduate with no more debt. If you accomplish those two things and four hundred dollars a month is five thousand dollars a year forty eight hundred dollars a year for five years. That's another twenty five thousand dollars. You got saved because you ended up playing through exactly as you think you're going to and you're not going to need a thing. You don't need a dime to graduate. That's the best case scenario. Uh-huh. And it's a likely case the way things are looking right now. So it's a reasonable assumption. But let's say that that happens and you graduate with. Twenty five thousand dollars in an account, and your PHD and chemistry and zero debt. That's not a bad day. And then you've got the money to make a transition because you'll likely I'm guessing you're going for a professorship or are you going to do something else? I was hoping industry, but be at that either way you could do both actually probably. Yeah. Okay. So, you know, you might end up moving, you know, you might end up your, and you might need some money to move to a different city and take the the big job so to speak when you get out. And so it takes five years to do that. I would have thought you could've done it quicker than that. It's begin the first two years or classes, and then the next three years or conducting your own research and publishing papers. Right. Well, yeah. And you've got you know, you gotta do all your. Yeah. Okay. All right. I'm in. I just wile. That's impressive. So here's the deal. I'm looking at this as a risk management thing as a chemistry. Major one thing. We know about you for sure you're good at math. And so you're crunching numbers only. And I'm I'm looking at bumps and bruises and scars that life brings those are called risk, and they don't always show up in the numbers. And so I'm most concerned that will graduate with this fabulous income potential with a PHD in chemistry, and you're obviously very bright person. And if you can come out with that unscathed, financially and end up with ten twenty thousand bucks in the Bank and graduate with no more debt. You have had a good run, brother. Thank you so much and your setup to win. So I'm not worried about your long term investing. You got plenty of time to do that. Because your income's going to be incredible. You're going to be able to make Bank between industry and teaching both with that. So void go. Do. What do you you landed there, man? That's awesome. Congratulations. Very very cool. Nncholas is with us in Los Angeles. I nNcholas our you drowsy, are you better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? Make your last caller. Well, my college student I have about six months to go until I graduate, right? What's your degree in business? Studies. The ministers cool. I was recently offered a job opportunity that I close to six figures. But it would mean I would have to drop out of school because it's a fulltime job at that point. Do you think I should stick with the school? And hope another job opportunity comes later or jump at the opportunity that was offered. So who's offering somebody that does not have a college degree one hundred grand? Well, I have about seven years of industry experience working in congruent with my degree two years off. And then I went back to school to finish it got ya. Okay. So what do you what what is your industry experience in? Hostility hotels restaurants. Okay. And so you quit that world to finish her degree. And now that world came and tried to bribe you out of that goal. Not a bad day. That's not a bad name. These are not bad choices. You got in front of you. I don't just what does the go. How old are you? Twenty four. Okay. So when you're forty four. Which one will you be glad you did. Oh, that's a hard question. Well, let's say you finished your degree. You think you can't land another one of these? Oh, I think I could think you can too. I think your original goal was to finish this degree. I'm not huge on the end of the world begins an ends on college degrees. I love them. And I think education's important, but this is your goal. And I think you down inside you wanna play through and you want somebody give you permission to walk away from a hundred grand. I'm gonna give you that permission because granted waiting on you the other side of the degree. You're still get that job. This is the Dave Ramsey. Stop blowing your budget on your wireless plan and switch to peer talk USA. Pure talk. USA offers simply smarter wireless. Unlimited plans start as low as twenty dollars per month. You never pay data over its fees, and we never turn off your data, no contracts, no hidden fees, and no surprises. We're so confidential peer talk USA that we invite you to try our service risk free. Visit peer talk USA dot com or call eight four four eight six to three six seven seven enter promo code Ramsey. And receive fifty percent off your first month. That's pure talk. USA dot com. Thank you for joining us, America. When phones this hour on number is triple eight eight to five five two two five that's triple eight eight to five five two two five. John is in Raleigh. A john. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey show. Dave sherman. What's up? I'm thirty three years old. I have been babysit three D. I have about thirteen thousand dollars my six thousand dollar mercy fund. And I need a new car, and I'm wondering how much to spend on multiple. Okay. And what's your household income about forty five thousand what else do you own that has a motor in it? I have a car now. And it's it's a truck is about fifteen years old. He's got three hundred thousand mile. You're getting rid of it. I mean, do you own other toys with Motors? No, I have a more. Okay. It's not a six thousand dollar on more, right? Okay. Because they make them. Okay. All right. Here's my rule of thumb is this after studying millionaires for years and the goal here is to try to build wealth. Right. They invest. A small percentage of their world into things that go down in value. The biggest thing that you, and I and all of us by the goes down in value stuff with Motors in it cars and boats and trucks, and mar vs and see do's and snowmobiles and six thousand dollar John Deere tractors and whatever else they all go down in value, right? And so we want to limit the damage to our finances while having good transportation and enjoying what we drive I'm a boy, I like to drive a fun car. So. You wanted to be a small percentage of your world. So that it's not doing damage. You follow me? So all of that to say, I came up with a good guideline. This is with rare exceptions, you should not own a total of things with the motor in them. Total up everything you on with Motrin, which you don't have anything. So we're okay that is more than half your annual income. So if you spent the whole thirteen thousand you would not violate that. You see what I'm doing? But if you want to spend thirty three thousand even if you had the cash making forty five thousand dollars a year that would be silly. Because you're buying something. That's going to go from thirty three to eleven in about three heartbeats. Right. Right. And so I guess my question was should I spend the entire thirteen thousand or should I you can maybe half of it. You can but pay cash for whatever you buy, and you can spend up to thirteen. If you're -mergency fund sounds like it might be a little slim to me, I might move some of that thirteen in up by beef up your -mergency fund a little bit. So might do something like move three moreover there, and then spend ten on the car or something like that have about ten in my -mergency phone about ten thousand dollar car. You can get a lot of car for ten thousand bucks, especially compared to what you're driving right now. So and just watch what you're doing, and, you know, pay cash for it. And you you know, you've done a great job handling money. You're out of debt. You got your -mergency fund? You've saved up money beyond that to buy your car, man. You're killing it. Well done. Thanks for calling in happy new year. Joe is in Rochester, New York. Hey, joe. How are you? Joe? Yeah. Can you hear me absolutely, sir? How are you? Good good. I'm a huge fan. I paid off all my debt. All I have is my mortgage. Now, I am thinking I'm ready to start investing. I know you always say not to go with banks for open Roth IRA's and stuff like that. Right. But the guy at the Bank, I've been talking to a huge fan of yours e supports pretty much everything you say, he read all your books that was still wondering any has the heart of a teacher. I think I've been to a couple of other people, and I never really felt as comfortable as I do it this guy, but it's kind of conflicting what you say. Because you say not to invest with the with the banks. I the only thing got Swazi still work there. He should go. Don't get a job with a great mutual fund company. If he's all of the things you described because he could make a killing he make a lot morning make it that Bank. But anyway, I'm okay with it in your case. But the thing is this the thing you've got to be wear of is this every week. They try not everybody that works at the Bank, including the tellers into a room and tell them how to sell credit cards and home equity loans to people. They're better sales people than us car sales. People are. And every week. He gets his value system that he where he says he follows me attacked by his employer. And so you've got. Yeah. You've got to be on guard about him getting infected with that disease. That's the problem so long as you can be on guard for that. And you're comfortable making your own decisions and the Gaza. Great guys sounds like he's a good guy. I mean, I don't have a problem with him. But, but you know, he's got the heart of a teacher. He says he's following my stuff. You know, what my stuff is you follow that the four types of mutual funds. Good long-term track records, you know, five ten year twenty year track records on the mutual funds growth, growth and income aggressive growth international. You got all that dialed in right? Yeah. I told them pretty much everything that you teach. I I told him how I want to do it with the growth growth and income aggressive growth and. As long as he turned around, six months later, go. Hey, got this. Great deal is variable. Universal life policy over here. I got a variable nudity. I can put you in which makes me four times as much commission. You know, I got this. And that and you know, along as you start hearing he stuff, then you'll be okay? But if you hear that, you're. All I'm sorry. He recommended term. That was the only other kind of insurance ever recommended me before good. I mean, it sounds like he's a good guy that stuck in the wrong place. But but you're just gonna have to be on guard because he's running around in the middle of this disease ridden place called a Bank. And the vast majority of people sell investments banks are doesn't that just clueless? It's like getting your transmission fixed in a muffler store. I mean, it's just a bad idea to buy investments at Bank most the time. But it sounds like you've found a good guy. Not a problem. If you wanna get another opinion just drop on jump on Smartvestor and found a Smartvestor pro in your area, sit down with them. And you know, if you still like your guy better, it's fun go with that guy. He's meeting all the guidelines of what we teach, you know. But you just have to be careful because he is going to be consistently influenced to buy by employer. It's just the nature of the beast. I mean, it's like, you know, anyway, that's that's what your problem is open phones at triple eight eight to five five two two five Terry is in San Francisco. Happy new year, Terry. Same to you. Dave. How can I help? Well, I would like to know if I should pay off my rental or not, okay. Okay. How much do you own it? I one thirty four and you have a hundred thirty four thousand I do go much on your home home. I live in I o two hundred ninety five thousand okay, how much do you have that is non retirement money? Total liquid non retirement money, one eighty and a few bucks on what's illiquid, that's non retirement. Well, the equity in both of my home. About two eighty and one that I want to pay off. But you're not feeling like a stock investment illegal illiquid or something like that. No, no. All right. Cool. Cool, and are you debt free except for these two properties. I have been since I was twenty three. I never yet. Listening to you for about three weeks. Wow. Were you found a kindred spirit? How are you? I am inspired. I am fifty five. Awesomeness? What do you make a year? What your household income? Well, it started last year well about eighty and now I just hit the hundred and one thousand Mark. Having a great year. I am do you have a fund aside from the one eighty no that is including my emergency in the fund. That's all in. Yeah. So let's set on emergency fund aside of three to six months of expenses and pay the rental off today. I'm with you. I like your plan. Fantastic. I'm doing it figured with my emergency. Which would give me fix on? I had Jeff enough to write that check you go. And then let us all of that money and all the money, you're making this new increases in pay and head and get the house paid off. And looks like probably do that in about four or five years. Probably pretty cool. Well done well done. Well, I'm honored to have any listening thank spring. Now. This is the Dave Ramsey show. The lobby of Ramsey solutions. Jennifer is with us. Hey, Jennifer, happy new year to welcome welcome. Where do you live spring hill? Tennessee just down the street right around the Nashville area. Very cool. Well, welcome and all the way up the road here to you're debt free scream love it. How much have you paid off eighty four thousand dollars? Good for you. And how long did that take you five minutes to? Wow. And your your household income? Hundred and fifty hundred sixty cool. What do you do for a living? I'm a real estate agent doing great. What's a boom town that you're living in? So you're gonna make some money. Good for you. Now, they're working and getting houses sold good job. So what kind of debt was the eighty four thousand? It was a mixture mostly it was a home equity loan to pay off credit card debt another credit card. Car for my daughter. In student loan debt. Okay. Cool. Cool. So tell me your story what happened five months ago that got you fired up because I mean, you've gone crazy here you went after it. I for the first time ever I made goals for last year sat down at the beginning of the year made goals had a business partner and we sat down with the goals, and we made a plan. And then I got to work we worked like it mattered. I had two jobs and just soon as I could start paying it off. And. My kids made sacrifices I made sacrifices. I didn't spend and we cancelled a trip to Florida the night before we were supposed to go to Florida. But we were intentional and and we we acted like it mattered. So that this year, we could do it different. Love it live like no one else. So later, you can live like no one else. So what prompted you you said for the first time in my life. I sat down and set goals what caused you to do that. My real estate broker she requires us to two goals and. Yeah training. And so as you were doing your personal goals, you went on this DAT thing. And how are you connected to us then twenty years ago when I was pregnant with my first child, I read financial peace. Okay. And did the envelope system. And by the time, my daughter was born I had all my bills paid and enough money and my envelopes to. Survived for three months and not have to work. And so that seed was planted twenty years ago, and and I just finally a little slow learner after twenty years, I decided that was sick and tired and things had to be different. Good. We see very often in this time of year for those listeners out there. It's something to think about that. When people start setting goals with their money. It leads them to set goals on other things like it's not unusual. Have somebody do have weight loss or start going back to church and has had some spiritual goals or something like that? When they start working on their money. They start working on other things with you the other way around you start working on business goals, and you went vitamin get rid of that. They kinda like kinda let in backwards. Didn't it whatever works? Amen. So you've done it you paid off eighty four thousand dollars. You did this in five months if there did you did you sell something sold fifty two houses last year? Oil. That'll do it. Okay. Wow. So I mean that this really fast, especially even with that income goes you barely made eighty four thousand five months unless you made most of your income in the back of the year. No now in real estate I made in that period one hundred four thousand during that time, and then I have much. Yes. Wow. Yeah. And I still have the second job at that time. So you don't need anymore. No don't have anyone that means you're going to be on pace for like three hundred grand this year. If you keep doing real estate the way you've been doing it. We we have lofty goals for this year as well. Brought to you well done. Good job. Very well done. Good stuff. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of that is? To get serious and to be the grownup in the house. That's says it all that. It really does very cool. So did you have people cheering you on? Anybody know what you were doing my fiance? He's been very supportive, and my business partner is she's an enormous support to me. And and my kids like, well, I don't not sure supportive is the word for it. But they got on board involved. Well done Jennifer, congratulations. Very very proud of you. So you said you've your fiance when you get married we have not set a date. Okay. Good for you. Well, well, done what a great life. You got laid out in front of you. Things are good Sommese. What happens when you take control of these areas of our life? Yes, really is. So what was the key with the goal setting that lifted you up so much that may cause you make more money, and you might in your life. Yes. By far. What was the thing that did that? What was the switch that flipped inside of you? Do you think? Well, like saying being sick and tired of it. It's it's easy to say. This came up that came up and kind of be a victim instead of taking control of the situation and saying I'm doing this. I don't care if this comes up we're going to deal with that. And we're going to keep doing this and not fall back into old behavior and people can change just because he's been spender doesn't mean you have to continue to be a spender certainly don't have the spending habits I had a year ago ever again. Probably. Yeah. Well done. All right. Jennifer from spring hill. Tennessee a suburb of Nashville here. Eighty four thousand dollars paid off and five months. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's retire inspired book for you want that to be the next chapter in your story that you're a millionaire and outrageously generous along the way. So we'll give you a copy of that son by him route after you finish up here. So eighty four thousand paid off in five months at one fifty one sixty on our way to a lot more counted down. Let's hear a debt free scream. Okay. Three two one. I'm. Man, that is awesome right there. Absolutely. Edible. Goals. We talked about that earlier in the week because we're starting off our New Year's shows on goal setting and how to set a goal properly and goals that work must be specific. They must be measured. Title goals that work must be in writing goals at work must have a time. Limit and goes at work need to be your goals. You have to own them as to be something that's real to you. And you really going to do it. That's the kind of goal that actually works. Otherwise the goals. Don't work there just dream a wish it's I it's a resolution it doesn't stick. But she set goals. She did you know when you're setting goals with money on a monthly basis. You know, what you call that? A budget? Ooh. That sounds fun doesn't it? It really is fun because when you start doing a written budget, you feel like you got a raise. There you feel like you got raises money's going where you wanted to go on purpose. You're making your money behave. The budget is the whip and the chair that teams the lion which jokes, right? You make the make them behave. Make that make those dollars behave. And that's what every dollars for. We spent several million dollars in a couple of years developing the world's best budgeting app by far. It's the most elegant the most robust the easiest to use. It's completely free. It takes about ten minutes to set your budget up. Wow. Go to everydollar dot com. And start doing your goals. Just like Jennifer's don't do your goes monthly goals. Create annual goals. Create lifetime goals. That's all it is just, you know, it's visuals work clothes on baby. That's what a goal is. And you need your everydollar budget to do that your app at the app for your iphone or your Android in the proper store or you can just go to everydollar dot com and use it on your desktop. It's completely free. Everydollar the world's best budgeting, and this is that I've Ramsey show. Thank you for being with us. This is the Dave Ramsey show. Nncholas in Detroit, nNcholas welcome to the Dave Ramsey show. Deserve. What's up in your world? Not much listening to you over accurate like last spring, eight off seventeen thousand dollars in student loans. Look at you. I know I've been going really hard fulltime job in part time job and selling stuff like crazy. What's your part time job part time is that the Legos store here in Michigan? Cool fun. Yeah. So I'm going back to school. I just got married in October. And so I've been going really hard at this. And just trying to get things off to a good start this year things flowed down when I got married in October. I call you and let you know, my last debt is at least car when I least two days before. I started listening to you know, my goodness go figure so I have done some research on Kelley blue book. It says that my car and anywhere between fourteen thousand sixteen thousand and I can buy it for eighteen thousand right now. But I'm also trying to go back. At the school classes start on Monday. And I need some money for that. So I just kinda wanna know what what you might priority. Should I try to get out of this car and use up the rest of my money? I haven't savings now that I haven't wife or should I just kinda like ride out the lease and just get a cheap used car. I'm confused. You should the car. It wins the lease up. I'm sorry. The Lisa's up this December. It was a two year. Lease I got it last year. So you have one year left. Yep. Okay. It one year left on the car. And you said the car is worth fourteen to sixteen you can buy it for eighteen yell. Yell early buy out on. Yeah. The. Okay. I see. Yeah. Let's let's play this out. What is your what is your lease payment? The least payment is to thirty four months. Okay. All right show for three thousand bucks, you can rent the car for the year. Yeah. And be done with it. Are you going over your miles? No, I'm pretty good on miles. How much do you have in savings? Let me see I've got about sixteen thousand in a money market account. No. Yeah. Sixteen thousand and then two thousand and checking account, and this is your only debt everything else is paid. Yeah. Yeah. We got rid of all I had one credit card that had like ten bucks on it. And then the rest were student loans, and my wife didn't have any debt to. Okay. And your household income is what? It was about thirty five before I got married. So it's probably up to forty five fifty now. She work. Yeah. Yeah. She's a fulltime job. What does she teacher not much probably like thirty thousand high probably less than thirty thousand your household income is now seventy. Right. The two of you know, I think it's I'm sorry. I'm making about thirty five and she is too. And she's making probably like twenty. As a teacher. Yeah. Yes. She doesn't have her degree. It's just like a it's like, oh, okay. Day-care household income of the two of those together, which would be more like fifty five probably around fifty five. I haven't done the math. Exactly. But I'm okay advocating talk around fifty five. Okay. All right. I'm just trying to get an idea where we are. And how much is tuition? So I've done I'm twenty three years old. So I went to college at a private Christian school for three years. How much is tuition the school? You're getting ready to go back to well for this first Mestre, it's like a thousand dollars. Okay. I have credits that I'm going to be transferring to this community college running around taking classes and that'll be transferring to another university. And so what does it any degree? I don't know. It's probably gonna be around sixteen to seventeen thousand dollars. Okay. And you're gonna do that over what period of time. Hopefully within the next two years. Okay. All right. I would drive your car until it until it's the Lisa's up. And then turn it in make sure you're not over your miles. And I would go to school and pay cash. And then make sure you've got some money saved by next December two by car with. Okay. And you can do that easily with your in. Yeah. Now that you've learned how to live on a budget and control yourself and all that you need to go in and dig in and do your details now on not only what your income is. So that you can do a budget accurately because you're not can't do an accurate budget. Because you can't tell me what you make giving combined your income yet. And you've been married for months. So it's time to do that. Okay. And. You need to also dig in and get into great detail of exactly what it takes for you to finish this degree. What is your path between the community college wherever you're gonna finish up all that kind of stuff. And once you know, what classes are required to complete the degree. Then you'll know what it's gonna cost and exactly how long it's gonna take it. When the classes are offered. So let's map this out in great detail. So that you're you execute your plan, and you have a solid plan as if we were building a house, we have a blueprint we have to build it. According to the blueprint, you need a blueprint for your money. And you need a blueprint for the continuation of the completion of your education. And that way, you don't accidents miss something. Oh, I forgot to put that wall up on that side of the house. You don't have that forgot to take these four classes. Oh my gosh. Now got this mess, and it's people that don't, you know, Stephen Covey used to say in the book, the seven habits of highly effective people one of the habits of how effective people as they begin with the end. In mind. Begin with the end in mind. So you reach over the in say, these are the things I wanna complete and then you back out, and you detail out exactly what the steps are to get there. And then you execute that. And when you live with that kind of intention -ality you become what people call successful. You know, when you call somebody successful so on so successful. They have a successful marriage. They're successful. Parents. They're successful at their football career. They're going to the Super Bowl. They're successful at running their business. No one is accidents successful. Great detail and great intention -ality causes success. It doesn't accidentally happen. And so, you know, you're getting really close, and you've had some really good successful things. You did like you successfully got the student loan paid off in your you're handling money at twenty three years old way beyond your years. You're doing a great job. So now, let's just play through the rest of this and get the budget detailed out for the marriage and get the the education plan detailed out. And then you'll be successful at your money and you'll be successful in getting your degree in your chosen field. Congratulations. Well done, sir. Open phones at triple eight eight to five five two two five Craig is on Facebook. Is it okay? For my wife to borrow money to go back to school. Craig on. This is the Dave Ramsey show. We tell people not to borrow money. You can do whatever you want your wife, can do whatever she wants. But I tell people not Bonn. Now, why do I tell people not to borrow money because all of the data tells us all of the millionaire data tells us all of the people that win with money. Tell us that the shortest path to wealth is to stay out of debt. Even for education. As we're doing all these millionaire studies that were in the midst of doing we discover that very few millionaires borrow money for their education. A lot of them worked fifty hours a week while they were going through and getting their four year degree that they refused to borrow money. So I mean, you can do what you wanted to. But what's the goal? Is the goal to be normal middle class. That's fine. At your goal. I'm only manage. We'll still be friends, but this show is about being successful with money, and the definition of being successful with money is building wealth that is part of the definition of being successful with money being generous. And there's some things that go along with that. Right. But you know, being being broke is not being successful with money. So being successful money by definition is to have built well and the shortest path is to avoid death. An education. Good thing. As long as it's something. You're studying something that there's actual use four in the marketplace. But I'm gonna pay cash for it. So Craig, you can do whatever you want to do your wife, can do whatever you wanted y'all grownups. But you asked me on my Facebook page and a hundred percent of the time you're going to get the answer borrow money borrowers slave winter gotten say except for student loans. It's not in proverbs. This is the Dave Ramsey. Hey, guys, it's Kelly Daniel, associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey show. This hour of the show is over but you can find our podcast on itunes or Google play. We're everywhere. Ordinary your to serve you. Make more money doing what you love checkout, Christie rights business boutique podcast. Crissy's inspiring and in quipping women to become successful running their own business hand, Christy. Right. And I help women all over the country take their ideas, and passions and hobbies and turn them into profitable businesses. You have an idea in your head or dreaming, your heart and you've ever wondered if you could make money doing it. I'm here to help. Join us on the business booty podcast where we are quipping women to make money doing what they love subscribed Christie rights business boutique podcast wherever you listen to podcasts. Hey, it's James producer of the Dave Ramsey show. This episode is over but check the episode notes for links to products and services you've heard about during this episode. Thanks for listening.

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THIS IS MY PASSION INTERVIEW

Don't Quit Your Day Job

47:35 min | 2 months ago

THIS IS MY PASSION INTERVIEW

"I'm worried about the Internet so. You are loud K.. We're live. Did you did you come up live on yours? I I saw something. Okay. Alright. I'M GONNA. I know the sales manager for the six am Ron Down in Spring Hill Florida. We have racist down there and and we have raised coming up here in Hayes Ville on October ten. The problem is is lot of them are being postponed. Now you said. That you went to one race I guess it's in Pennsylvania somewhere. But from what I understand Pennsylvania, the governor was real strict about opening things up so. But diners changed. There's there's way Pennsylvania has have Green Zone. They have a cool different things, evergreen zones and I think there's like yellow, red, yellow, and green. The. Philadelphia County area that's actually closer to me. They're a little more restricted but more towards central western Pennsylvania there considered an Green Zone. So this race was able to take place. Partially. I think because the actual courses action waterfall which is about. Close to three out, I think around two and a half three hours from home and it was on an old abandoned part of the Pennsylvania. Turnpike. So basically, there is no to They didn't really have any issues with traffic control or having to close off streets or anything like that. So I think because they didn't have a lot of these other restrictions normally would have would races I think they're amenable off which was good. Don't I'll twenty years earphones on. So I don't get feedback from you talking and going into my. Okay In the mire hold on I'm going to do something like the kids used to do when I taught high school they would. They would share earphones you know so. Share this with my wife that was always a pain in the neck when did that but? You know I remember during that. Isn't the right one Does Go. Ahead to get in. So, this race which what did you run? A half marathon, it was called the old turnpike half marathon it was on an abandoned part of the Pennsylvania Turnpike. Branding background. Today have any special deals where they set it up to the time for lead to Cova Nineteen Protocol type thing. Yeah. So what they did was you actually when you signed up for the race, they actually had time slot. So it started at six, thirty, six, thirty, seven, thirty, eight, thirty, nine, thirty, and ten, thirty time slot so they were sending out. More than fifty runners every hour and It was a down in back core. So basically, they were able to six thirty sent a bunch of us out and then seven thirty time the six thirty people were starting the on the way back. We didn't really meet up with the seven thirty people I think to like baby toward the end of the race. What they did chew was once you started your timeslot like my six six, thirty slot you had fifteen minutes to cross the line before the they close off the race area. So what that did was we all even though they didn't actually have us go single file we all just kind of on our own just went ou-? Basically one time there wasn't none of the slots for all I. think There was one hundred and nine total live racers so they were able to We were pretty spread out I. think it was the only time I saw anybody close together where maybe a couple people maybe came together and in ran together. But for most part was able didn't have to worry about passing anybody I think he was pretty The way they had it set up. We were pretty sure. Did. They had package pick up in the morning. they did a couple of a couple different options. You could either get it mailed to you which I actually did because I figured that was just one point of contact but the hotel that they had as the they had a block for hotel they had up in the hotel, and then they had picked up at a location that was not at the race side. It was like a few minutes away that morning but I think majority of the people actually pick their pocket up I think the night before four had it melts and they didn't have I walked by and I saw the area they had it. There wasn't a huge amount in their own. People either picked it up at the night before maybe if she got in the morning. While we were going to do is have we have a five K. ten K. and half marathon that's the race on the ticker tape below you and. You can see that. Okay. So we're going to have an easy up for the five K. ten feet apart for the. Five ten. K and then ten feet from the head, and we'll have like places where they can be staggered for the packet pickup. So. will go to the five K.. Booth and then ten feet oil be the ten cain than a half marathon and just like in a supermarket I. Just do that up. There is where you have those little access you know where you have to stand and all that stuff working to have. The cones will stand in the next person goes up and if you can get. My wife and I we pack these. Everything. Everything's in the band so you have the the. Shirk. Are Middle was in the act. So this way you didn't have a stopping yet basically, they had everything you needed for the race plus your metal afterward actually the for the awards ceremony they actually mailed out the awards to the folks that that one anything I think have like for the top top three male female. Didn't have they didn't have the ward ceremony they just sent them afterward. Well, we're going to do. Up. We're going to do something different. We're going to have three easy up tents ten feet apart the first place overall we'll go to that ten stuck in place we'll go to the second place ten and the third place, and then they can get their trophy and you're good to go they do not going to be on a podium I. They'll be they'll have a What do you call it? It'll say I place second place third place and that's where they go the. As you know overall, it's a lot easier. You know I mean across the line for half and so forth the age group awards today give out any age group awards I think is a really small race I. don't I know it was top three for male and top three female and there was like a masters. Top like I forget what masters was considered. By, they didn't have any age groups for this one is a fairly small race. Well I don't know we have Let's see. British Youtube one we have about seventy three people and we still have till October tents on hoping for. I think I'll get at least two, hundred, maybe three. This is the second year. Ford is a trail run beautiful location and a lake strategic as matter of fact when you run. On. The trail you can see the way replace where you're running. You. Okay. I thought you fell off your chair. Sitting on. My. Underneath Well, that's good. So that. You can see the lake and it's really shaded. It's a beautiful and Last year was the first time that we had delayed. Do they used they have? It's really a mountain bike trail and. based. On Mountain biking. It's kind of lay beginner mountain bike. It's not difficult these. Tree roots all over the place in rock. So from the runner standpoint, it's a great trail on a lot of hills what it's beautiful. Lake just it's like a peninsula just goes around the whole trail. You do trail running. Now actually mostly mostly road running but I mean Doesn't mean I won't get into it I just I haven't done it yet. You have a lot of we don't have a lot of like off road trails where I'm at so. Lead itself where I'm from I'm originally from north. Jersey there's a lot more. there. Will you can run, you can run along golden mushroom houses down there. Can It's Mushroom is the LIMOUSINE CADILLAC I? Think. Actually, this raised was interesting. They had tunnels we they actually gave headlamps. We. Yeah. We had run through two tunnels twice because. Yeah the first. Weird I've never done I've never run race like that. So the Iran the first one was like two miles long and because it's in the it was in the. Near The allegheny mountains? Yes. Neck one was a little a little weird like I got to actually got like added your granny I brought eight. I was like Oh my God it really is dark here. I'm the hope was actually was really yeah. It was the reason why they I mean it's really slick in there. She had to be real careful but it wasn't easy. It was flat. I was like paddock thinking my God must step in some big giant whole. No one's GONNA see. But that wasn't too bad and the second one was a lot shorter. So and that was right rather turnaround. So it was like you ran through the tunnel you quick dot the water you know, and now they did on the other thing they did was the water Water Out, they had the little eight ounce bottles. That's what we're. Got? Really. Well. Because basic like salt serve and Yom's yeah. Not The only person the only time there was somebody on the course was right at the. At the turn around the people. Think keep running. But it turn around was pretty clearly marked but at the end they had on everything. The good food was like prepackaged ziplock bag with all. Would you know poche ray snacks instead of everybody grabbing stuff you just grabbed the bag and when. and. We're going to do we're not cup thing now is gone cove nineteen happier people at risk stop with a cup got sedonia which that's the only positive thing out of this covid nineteen racers is that. We can now not we don't really have to have like volunteers. I can just load up water at each mile stop like we have a marathon down in Spring Hill Florida and it's like. You know it's like half its out and back. So we have. Six rest stops down in back and I had to pay twelve hundred dollars issue get the volunteers fish. Packing up the water like this. And have a trash king down the air you know this is a lot easier. To carry than a cop I mean I don't know about you but I've been at a station where you're trying to get somebody run buying, get a cup and. You know they fumbled they get it all over and some of them don't pay attention if it's gatorade or water, and they'll pour the gatorade over their head, it'll be. It'll be sticky the home run. So you know. So that's the only positive thing is this is at. Saving Time of getting the the volunteers rest stops. So brielle what did they do about the mass? About what? May Ask the mask. So, the because of basically the only time, the the volunteer staff had mask on. In this starting area, we only had to wear masks going into the starting area and then the. Once, we got running, it was up to us whether or not we wanted it. So do see smarting area was like a gate you had to go through. So it was a little narrow were closer together I was the only time we wear match Other than that, it was basically up to the you know if you felt like you needed to to to wear one I mean for the most part that guy said it was we were pretty much. Now. Because it was so spread out in the way they staggered their star and we all we. Basically. Just skimmed line single file line up. We all went out in spacing was face results out. It really wasn't necessary. Didn't feel like. So. I have run is a general whole like where I run where I practice my runs I live near. Hurricane. I. Rarely run with a mask because I usually run at the crocodile and when no one's out I mostly but even the people that are we have such a wide space everybody is just nosey kind of just get out of the way and in in kind of and in really the. The brief passing that you the likelihood of caching something somebody who briefly Missouri, it's not one hundred percent transmission rates. You know the likelihood of catching the virus like from somebody if you briefly pass by them is very minimal. If. You talked to any medical automatically people talk about time in dosage. So if I was running next to the person, he probably would wanNA mask on but you know obviously if it's a bigger event and there's more people and you're more likely to be near each other might be you know that might be something where I would have thought. Okay. I would need like a you know a gator or something to. Kinda. You know just in case go by somebody. Up Most like I said this where he wasn't I don't think other than the you know the start area that was the only time it was really necessary and. Go ahead go ahead. I it was. It was just it was face. They did a really good job with the spacing I think the having the staggered start with You know the going on every hour me they were able to do it too I. Think it also depends on you know if you have um an area like were like I said, they're not worried about closing roads down or or on me because it was an abandoned area of the turnpike. So they can afford starting that stagger part I feel like racist were you'd have to worry about any type of road closures or or any type of you know police or anything like that to. Secure some people to you. Know you have asked for anything like that those type of thing? I. Think you're you know you that's were. That far apart might not be good. You'd probably have to keep the. Tighter but stole. Ticker out how the distance. We were GONNA do. At this trail ron is kind of narrow were were the blowup Biz. For the star, we were going to do two at a time every five seconds, and we were going to have them lineup staggered. And it can wear the mask and then when they get up, they can take it off and then when they come back in. They can wear the masks, but we're going to have them where the packet pickup so they're not. All. Congregated together in actually gay can take it off when they did you have any hydration stations near. I I carry I, carry my own. I mean they encourage us to carry stuff with us. So I carried my own we have the water stations and everything but. Yeah just minimize having to. I needed just for refill for my bottle on site you know got. You partway through. Lucky the weather was really nice and wasn't too hot out. So, saw wasn't worrying about getting dehydrated but you know a lot of a lot of races are also, I've noticed too. They're also encouraging people to carry their own automobiles. And things all which obviously cuts down on. Obviously if it's if it's a small rate, a five or a ten K., you can carry enough to get you through the race for half marathon were full marathon I think would be a long order. So. Well Like I said those cups are. For. Whatever Internet is they're not going to have people with cups anymore, which is fine with me, and then we can eliminate a lot of the rest stops with people there because they don't have to pour the cops and all that stuff and definitely that we used to have food at the. Stops for the marathon, and now they're they're not doing food anything because people grabbing stuff even a cup of Jelly beans or something like that. They're not gonNA do that anymore. So that makes it a little easier for race directors Fars along tears with the way we do. It is the volunteers in the morning like packet pickup and in right before the race. We cop them they go free if they volunteer in the morning and then you eight o'clock a lineup to to go. So it works out very well with that and So it it was a pretty good deal. I was GONNA show you the shirt unique grabbed his shirt. This will hold it up this our cupcakes you're we're GONNA. have. A different color. Nobody can loops. Can you say it we have cup. You got the French. Back. On the back I, run for cupcakes. So. So we'll probably have. A difference like a purple or yeah and the medal matches it in the medal matches it so and. We sign ups and stuff that a lot of family sign up or A. Father and daughter mother and daughter that kind of stuff. But the other thing is tight is we're originally from the Warren installer area. Do you knew where the bucks? County Now, I'm in I live in New Jersey actually so i. Yeah Yeah I I just New Jersey's much more restricted right now still then we're we're actually gyms finally opening. September first. So Eddie we've been, we've had much restrictions although the the the loop where I run I think the week before my race there was actually a five K. and everybody brock is we're all looking like God there's a real race running and. I hadn't had time for insurance probably would ran down signed up if they love. Claude. I wish is obviously that's one of the things that you probably won't happen as much down to is you randomly? Some we've had I do suffer team training and There was one time we were doing our long run and there was a five am one of our participants actually in the middle of is like twenty, mile eighteen twenty mile training run signed up for five. In the middle on. A race in the middle of the training run I'd appear be able unfortunately I think right now let's not gonna be possible because they're going to be. You know they're gonNA try to limit. You know who's I'm a lot of places I've noticed that are not gonNA to stay sign up thorough pretty much. Everything be advanced. They can plan for you know the amount of people and making sure that people status and some you know even I had so many racists you're. Gone virtual or you know canceled was supposed to do. Hot Chocolate that was running virtual is supposed to do the brush. I got into broad street in that got postponed in that. Now, that's virtual though we got automatic entry for next year supposed to do want. US TO DO Marine Cooler Chic-. CHICAGO. I switched to Marine Cooler. Because I was doing human training and supposed to do wine and dine. And it's like Spring Lake file all these races. It's been like, oh, we're virtual. Now we're canceled were. So. Nice I I kinda figured one thing I've noticed of is I always tend to sign up for a lot of these like bigger races with obviously as a lot of people they extra crash brunch run but I think right now like it was actually this race of Iran was probably not a race that would've actually signed up for norm on normal circumstances because it's just a small race and it's not really I tend to. When I do I like the go. You know. Big Races I like Racing Disney So it was actually kind of cool. Actually wound up being really fun I think right now I think the have something like a broad street run or Disney's can be challenging right now just the amount of all. But. I. Think. It's about these smaller races like the race that Iran race year is at a gives you good on. kind of a prototype of like how do we? How do we run right now in the middle of hand? Yes. Is it we've EA- could only do you owe virtual virtual virtual after wire just like I just wondering one race where I have on with a chimp in my time of one you know and that is why I just want to run a railway. And I think now think the smaller races I think will also I. Think will help. With bigger racist too I think you're gonNA see things that. Okay. How does this work? Okay. Then we got this number can we get the number a little bit bigger and do the same thing and I think eventually what'll happen is we'll eventually be able to build ourselves up to where we can run these bigger races again, I think right now too. If you think about it bigger races all our medical and all those resources are stretched thin allergist from everything else and so to throw I think a lot of the logistics with some of the races to just like you know you've got. You. Know, your your stat ear healthcare, and all these staff already stretched thin you dealing with. People. With virus and everything like that that you don't like one. I give him another you know let's foot ten thousand runners in here and I think that's The challenge now, but I think it gives. All the races. I think some races that people wouldn't have give a second ought to I think people are like one they wanna run race but you know I think it's going to help some of these folks that do smaller racists get more people to because people really looking for a race right now and but also be able to be saved because that was the thing I mean I'm a I'm a physical homecare physical therapist I'm where I work a lot with the elderly. Obviously, we're very vulnerable population so I had to be real careful. I can't just you know that's one thing when I'm doing the racist to I have to look and say you know obviously nothing's without risk. But I have to is, how do I minimize my risk because I? Am You know even if I pick it up and don't have anything I'm going into population that could potentially have more complications so I need to I have to keep that in mind. So that's why I'm looking for with the racist. So that's what's nice about the smaller races shoes that you could still do the race that you want. To, do and then but you have much. Over keeping you know everybody. In minimal and I think that's the thing to people were like Oh cow could you run a race with with the Senate? I think any any activity you know you can you can do you just have to be mindful and think about how do we keep people from getting packing together because that's really where the where the risk is when you have all these people in a small you know if you look at anything where they. Have where outbreaks were different things were, will it was a bunch of people in a small space and so you just have to sit there and say how do we minimal is out in and I think that's it and I think that's like a race like yours race like the one I did I think are are perfect examples of where you're you're going to be. You can do that. So enjoy that we love to do. But in a safe manner. Well I agree and I give cycling events in a lot of cycling Vince. Here in Atlanta injury have been canceled because. At their rest stops, you'd have like twenty cyclists get off the bike and were like converging and I don't think they knew how to. To, separate them because some cycles can be a little big. Elitist condescending they want. Do they do you know? I think that was going to be tough bar by runners. They understand it and they know they want to get through Pac pick-up. They'll stand in line to wait. We haven't set up with package pickup you go up say your name it's on the bag and you got in four seconds. You're you're good to go. We don't pack the you know the assured in everything there we have already prepacked so it's That's one advantage but you know. But the cycling one had they have been canceled down here like hundred miles sixty five. Because you have all these cyclists at the rest stop and he just dropped their bike over and. They want food they won't drink. They don't wait for anybody so. That that's going to be a tough when I think I, think you're correct about I remember I know you're about the small races and I think The peach tree one down here in Atlanta has fifteen thousand people it was rescheduled now it's canceled. So so land is a strange bird because. The mayor down there. She she does want to do anything. So mote I think all races in Atlanta are canceled. I said I think it's Time to the pens like you're you're doing like a trail. The location to I think. You know the like mine was on an abandoned part of the road where you know where no one there's no traffic. There's no, there's nothing except. Being run and you know if you do trail runs Tom, I know there's another I. think There's another group that does. Undermine waste had knew somebody that was doing some. I think some other runs super that most of the runs were on trails So I think it's much more control. There's less things I have to worry about You know and You don't have to have like I said the only person other that they had people at the start line the only staff that was out there somebody at the turnaround. So you know that I mean which is good. You think about it to see you want make sure that you know everybody comes through and. He you know there's nobody that got stuck somewhere You can make sure that nobody. I. Mean. It was pretty clearly marked but nobody missed the turnaround but also making sure that on the way back, you can make sure that people everybody got back safely to shift that nobody had any any problems So I think that that's you know that's where the. The. Location is GONNA IS GONNA be. Important too I think. You know if the run if you're running on. If the less they other things you have to worry about. I think that makes a big difference to. You, we have a turnaround. Excuse me at the Hawthorn winning Gainesville. Did the for the half marathon turn around and we're GonNa sincere going longer distance. They have gator gatorade and small bottles like that. So we're GONNA water and Gatorade at the turnaround for the Five K ten k the water will suffice by they do have that. Gatorade is kind of NEAT. It's all day. Good too. So we're we're GONNA do that but. Everybody, has to adapt I think by. Biased talking to you and other other runners. We get a feel for the right thing to do and you said about the bagging it's kind of funny. We went on two week trip in hotels. They don't have that buffet a breakfast anymore they give you a bag stable there. With water and maybe a couple of muffins or something there's no more gourmet. Burwood hotel I stayed at they normally had like a buffet and what they did was you. The night before whatever you wanted you to. They had this stuff that they normally would have on a buffet but instead of going and getting getting it out of the breakfast area, you just ordered what you wanted and they actually had it the next morning ready. Just tell them. Hey, I'm going to be there at six o'clock. And they'd have it ready for you. So at least you could wasn't the same as being able to go and get whatever. But at least you had something you know so I think that's the thing too. I know I actually won miss with some places. We we have a Wegmans by US and they can also buff anything and I, Kinda like I was like, oh so sad because we can't have that anymore. The but an making if like you know like like just because obviously you have people milling around and and. Reaching a food and so it's Kinda hard to do that right now. You, you picked a bag of, don't tell us what do we what kind of like to surprise bag? You know you don't. Know. What you're getting, which was I think? We'll. Check Dan Care you just check the list off and give us ready for you. What what I wanted to ask you is six. Am Ron which I told you to one of the or the VP of sales down here in Florida. You, you take the marathon one in the sprint who's like a different. Actually. Knicks. I mix the sprint marathon when I first started. That's how it kind of gives me that that kick. Along you know I like the I like having on both I actually for this race for the first time. You're mally I don't use marathon during the run but I so is on the beginning, actually fill my bottle with marathon Of It. It was an actually I had a PR. I guess it were I've Lily. Michael was my goal was I I'm? I. I told my last year. So this is my longest race that Iran since I've won the I've done a few couple of ten ks and that's the other thing that was kind of memorize. Basically shot out all I tore my acl in January last year kickboxing. Yeah somebody kid swipe my leg out from under me and and so I did of course, it was I did it the week of the marathon weekend in Disney so I was facility the five K in the half I walked the Five K with a brace. I'm not knowing I tore my up because I had. My. Then then who became surgeon Ortho was you can do it. You want it gives it was torn. You'RE GONNA have to get it repaired anyway. So He's go to Florida enjoy yourself so I've yet reasonable get your. Way Back so Need my five K I walked it, which will do with a brace on but I didn't. I didn't run the half because I was like well, if I didn't tear it, I, don't want to turn on a course so. Basically most two, thousand, nineteen rehabbing I got to run some race race at the end but then I also have a lot of. Our cartilage missing from my. Sheared off a lot of the. Particular cartilage when I tore the also, we were trying to preserve my niece it. Okay I'm GonNa do my racist later in the year of course obviously. The pandemic game So this was like my longest race and you know Michael was doing under two thirty and so that each six, thirty, eight, which. So it GOT THAT LITTLE KICK? You know this is pretty good for the long reason fro longer racist the that that marathon in there. So yeah it was so. I was going. I do cycling. Nice to meet you. My wife's taken long. Okay. I I WANNA, try out on because when I cycle I needed. More, sustainable. You know it has i. just can't drink what I've had gastric bypass and I can't drink any same time. So I need something that just doesn't just have electrolytes but it has you some calories to it. So I'm GONNA try that. Yeah now I like the idea like the marathon it so. It definitely and I get the a lot of the drinks Houston. Sometimes you get that. Gal. She bloating feeling and it doesn't give me. To we don't want us to run our obviously in the beginning of the arrays. but and then sprint you know it gives you a little extra kick i. mean if I had a I typically go in marathon like if somebody wanted Saito starred I would probably start with. Marathon I. Maratha can I short A lot of the runners are like, Oh, you spread for short distances marathon for longer. I've probably, I actually started using marathon I just for everything and I liked Dayton I just tried the sprint out and I just I like to sprint the beginning I think does like for the longer sustainable the marathon is. More for that just to in Senate. Sprint has a couple of things that gives you a little jolt Do Run with the group. well, I actually do I run with while right now running solo when I practice I live down in South Jersey Muslim most of the people are in North Jersey. I've actually run coach for team in training for. Society and So right now that we're not doing why training sessions, we're doing a lot of virtual stuff. Obviously we because he jersey nutrition or nutrition, but restricted right now actually nationwide I. Think we're doing we're not doing as much with with live training at this point it out because we have to get clearance from the national chapter and and. They. Get guidelines but most of the runners for Human Trainer Entrepreneur Surgery. So I have a few down here. I I run there's a lot of people running. So there's kind of there is a running group that's down here in South Jersey There's I kinda see the same kind of say. Over there's usually the same people out running in the morning at the same on Golly. Our that. Iraq. Yeah. So That but. We all kind of talk about runners being a little better behave with with with keeping distancing. We've all kind of area where I run is pretty Is Wide enough it has. It's a running path, but there's also a bike lane big shoulder. So we all just kind of figure out how to. Kind of keep our spacing which is nice. So I think people we I think runners kind. No A lot. especially the we had a lot of restrictions in the beginning and you know obviously, we don't like the gym's closed Michael Fox. So a lot of different things clues and I think we also all knew like, Hey, we don't want to lose our sports. So we're going to do what we can to make sure that we're we're not doing things that are considered behavior that would be higher risk. So runners sort of all figured out how to. Space themselves I think during at least down here by me we were all pretty good about out. So I think that was. Allowed us to keep our? Park Open. For the most part and not hop out of the parks. We have county. The park that we have is accounting park and even though they actually briefly closed the county parks down here. The half on the outside of the park actually most people we all just kept using it in and no one said he thinks. So we were lucky in that aspect but a lot of parks up in the northern part of the state where it was harder were they were they are much harder it with the virus sin we were down here they closed a lot of the stuff there. So that restrictive all people's running, but we were lucky than they've any opened them up. You know I saw you said something about a run dizzy I saw a video was on a video watch on or life facebook. There was like nobody's there. I mean it was like a few people was. They're telling me my wife's family. Tell me that they can get on the rides plays. Choose recovering. Fed a few of my friends that they're like, Oh my God this is this is great we got on the longest we waited for resists and I just saw something to they were talking about on somebody mentioned that there's there hasn't been any knock on wood hasn't been a report of any covid cases because they said that they're very what's happening is they're they're enforcing mask use being considered actually. there. actual requirement what type of mask you can use to because there are studies out there that say, the actions of Aso's matter the type of material you're using. And they people they're enforcing mask where they're forcing the distancing they're cleaning the heck out of the place. You know I think auto you know people you know a lot of people I know were like, oh. People were like, how could you possibly go to that? I. Think. Honestly right now is probably if there's anything, this is probably the time to go to these places because everybody's so hyper vigilant about we don't. They don't want to have however case there because less salt you know that's the last thing they want. So there you know they want to be able from. You know they're going to be more vigilant with with keeping things clean and and and and people I. Think the people are also it sounds like for the most part the people are you know the people who are going there are being Are, behaving to so you're not they're not having as much issues. That which is probably making old but easier for them. So I think that's a big thing too. Is that You know like that's it? We're our JIM. Jim. Is Opening up and they're requiring match while you're inside I know depending on the shape that you're in some places. Do some places don't You know there's a lot of out here. There's a lot of people like I. Don't know how I can be able to work out at a mask and. And you know and and I think that's like people get. You know there's a lot of misinformation out in. On the Internet about whether? What whether people believe whether they feel them Oscars you know. Whether it's going to cause them to keep warm a little bit but. You know I did I did kickboxing class with a mask on problem I think it's just like some people you just have to kind of figure out hits I want to get back to the Jim. So I'm GonNa you know this is what's GonNa, keep. Minimize that's GONNA use right. Off the race. I've run in the wintertime with like a mouse Gong because they don't like the cold air. So not the surgical mask, but I have a skier mass that I wear. I got used to running with that so I think You know things like that. I think he's Kinda. Kick your battles at that aspect so Disney I think is on doing what they on. you know to say is, how do we keep things open? We have. Amassed and it says I run for cupcakes when the mask off to send you a picture of it we're we're going to order some of those. WE'RE GONNA have our volunteers where a mask and gloves and. Be Is Sensitive everybody's needs are cared thing but. I want to say that I do miss. The Beach? Ocean city and wildwood beaches. I haven't been there in a long time. Do you I, guess you go to the shore the Golden Shore. Down the shore. Down the shore. Yeah. I used to be in the produce business, all those goon bars in south. Jersey and everything where they grow the blueberries tomatoes. Were down in that probably I think I'm closer to the Philadelphia area. So I'll about forty minutes to an hour maybe a little over an hour to two hours. Yeah, we got good blurry sound here. Look I. Really. Appreciate you explaining. Your race experience with this because we're down in Florida just got off the phone with somebody and they're saying like Y-, each county is different in their cases are going down and nobody knows what's going on. So lot of races. are kind of on hold in evaluating it every thirty days. But I'm glad that you could get out there and run the one appear and Hazel on the tenth. Is Good to go I'm excited about it and. WE'RE? Going? To. Put together, different things protocols everybody feels safe and it's a gorgeous place and you Rhonda's I. Want to say Six Am run facebook site, right? Yeah. Yeah. You're not does worry. Okay that's that's right. They saw you. Don't I'm going to when I closed this I will send you this. You can send it out or whatever, but you can. See. Yourself on NISA IS AND And you're not gonNA send you an email with a couple of standings Baby Get your shirt size and sent one of these to you if you want. You you wear racer Bradsher. Yeah we're. Do you. Re We stayed with these I had I had a lot of women I really catered to the women I asked them about their opinion in I if I can do it, I go with it but a couple of came up and said, I'm so tired of the Unisex shirts I'm glad I got this racer back and you know and they love shirt as a matter of fact when they took off. A lot of wore the shirt over another shirt I. mean they just they just really liked it. So I'll send you a couple of and then we'll stay in touch my we'll send you. Video and I can separate the video from the audio and I'll send two of them to but. It was great. Talking to you you look like you're in great shape I saw the kick I saw your name. I saw your facebook pictures and everything you change a little bit but you look You look at great shape. You know. But I will get out and just broadcast I will say not once again I post, things will post this I will post the where you don't want it posted I. Mean I do Poop? I do it is streaming live now on my pain, but I'll send it to you. Wherever you want but you had. Could I like talking about this actually did a another talk with our team and training group about running in the in the cove era as we? A. Friend call that I think it's important. I think people probably have questions and I think it's a good way to kind of say listen if there is a way to do it and do it safely. And I think it's important for people understand that. You get down to Georgia or Florida. While I'm hoping to the marathon weekend in in in in January but I do occasionally I do have a lot of friends in folks down in that area. So Let me know because we have an outback? We have a Boston qualifier and springhill. So we had like four or five people not that you have to run a marathon but that have qualified for the Boston marathon which had been canceled. Fast You know I did have one. Lady. Walked. The whole darn thing and I drove down there with a truck and saying I can pick you up and but she kept on walking so. We, stayed out there for like seven hours I. Think it was but. I've done marathons. While I appreciate this, I will send you the stuff and I'll keep in touch with you and you. Know what's going on and you let me know of the you're coming down in this area. Okay. Okay. Sounds good. All right thanks a lot

Pennsylvania Iran Florida Ron Down Disney gatorade Michael Fox Sprint Spring Hill Florida facebook Senate Atlanta Philadelphia County New Jersey Pennsylvania Turnpike Boston Hayes Ville Cova Hurricane
Villainesses: Patricia Krenwinkel

Encyclopedia Womannica

06:10 min | 1 year ago

Villainesses: Patricia Krenwinkel

"Hello from wonder media network. This is so see vacant. I'm guest hosting today for this special episode of encyclopedia romantika doc if you're just tuning in here's the deal every weekday for a year. Jenny is telling the stories of women from around the world and throughout history who you may or may not know about but definitely should each month is deemed and this month we're talking about. Villainous women have long been categorized history as either pure and good or irredeemably evil but like all people women are complex and deserve to be remembered as search. Some of the women were profiling. The smart really did horrible things. Well others deserve a second book. Today's illness is a former marcel. Listener discretion is advised. We're talking about a woman who had trouble childhood and went on to commit some of the most infamously famously disturbing crimes in u._s. History i have a special relationship to her as i recently played her in the movie charlie says let's talk about patricia krenwinkel on winkle one of the original members of the manson family patricia dianne krenwinkel was born in nineteen forty seven in los angeles california. Her father was an insurance salesman and her mother was a homemaker patricia. Teen years weren't exactly easy. She suffered through the divorce of her parents <unk> as well as relentless bullying at school for her weight and appearance after her parents split. She stayed with her father in los angeles until she graduated from high school. She taught catechism sikhism in considered becoming a nun for a bit before deciding to go to spring hill college a jesuit school in alabama that didn't last long. She dropped out and returned to l. a. After just one semester patricia i met charlie manson in manhattan beach in one thousand nine hundred sixty seven while working as an office clerk that night <hes> mm-hmm we slept together and when we made love all our members just crying and crying to this man because he said oh you're beautiful. I couldn't believe that i i just started crying. After that patricia left her life behind she went with manson along with lynette froman mary brunner to san francisco abandoning in her apartment car and last paycheck the growing so-called families started traveling around the country in old school bus patricia now dubbed katie eighty accident as a mother figure to the rest of the group at first manson and his group's exploits seemed unusual but not necessarily dangerous they ran through the woods while manson played the flute day did a lot of partying and they briefly crashed with the drummer of the beach boys. The group eventually decided added to establish a more stable base. They moved to spahn ranch. A deteriorating former movie ranch located in los angeles county manson had long. I've been preaching the racist notion that tensions between black and white people were about to erupt some believe this was the ideology that spurred the impending murder spree in in early nineteen sixty nine the manson family moved to a yellow house in canoga park to monitor those susposed tensions in august that year patricia took part the first horrific crime the family would become known for scene described by one investigator is reminiscent of a weird religious right five per murder off the pregnant actress sharon sharon tate along with her visiting friends patricia in some of the other manson group members invaded the house cutting the phone line in climbing and embankment to sneak into the property. They killed eighteen year old stephen parent as he was leaving and then entered the house to kill sharon tate and her guests which included the cough theorist abigail folder patricia stabbed abigail to death chasing her even as she attempted to escape during patricia trial. She recalled that she felt felton nothing. During the murder saying i mean what was there to describe there and it was right. Five people were murdered that day and patricia participated in war killings the very next following night. There was another bloody stabbing and two more victims. We we know one rosemary. Labianca patricia wrote death to pigs in blood on the wall and also misspelled helter skelter on the fridge. After after a few arrests patricia was bailed out by her father moved back in with her mother in alabama manson told her to go to stay there until he sent word for her return. Instead manson was arrested a couple of days later. Patricia lived in alabama until fellow manson crew member susan atkins who was still in jail started started talking about the tate and la bianca murderers patricia was arrested in alabama on december first nineteen sixty nine the next day ashi was indicted for seven counts of first degree murder and one count of conspiracy to commit murder after a nine month trial patricia was convicted did of all counts and sentenced to death in the california institution for women prison. Patricia slowly began to lose loyalty to manson and the the rest of the family. Her death sentence was commuted to life in prison. As soon as the death penalty was outlawed in california and she went on to participate paid in many prison activities. She got a bachelor's in human services. She was active in alcoholics anonymous and narcotics anonymous and she taught reading illiterate inmates she has since been interviewed by journalists like diane sawyer and seems to show remorse patricia in the manson family have also been portrayed in movies such as this year's charlie says tune in tomorrow for the story of another historic villainous special thanks to jenny and lizzy caplan co creators of encyclopedia woman anika talk to you tomorrow.

charlie manson patricia dianne krenwinkel Labianca patricia sharon sharon tate los angeles murder Jenny alabama california los angeles county spring hill college manhattan beach spahn ranch diane sawyer marcel conspiracy to commit murder u._s salesman
Calvinism: Total Depravity

Theocast - Reformed Theology

48:52 min | 1 year ago

Calvinism: Total Depravity

"Depravity we talk about some confusion over its origins what it is and what it is not we even address some proof texts that seem to oppose. Hi this is Jimmy on Theo cassidy we are beginning a five week series on the ever debated topic of Calvinism and specifically the doctrine of total Welcome to often this can confuse our assurance what justification is and what it's not and even sanctification we hope that you find this conversation helpful stay tuned today are John Moffatt Pastor of grace reformed church in Spring Hill Tennessee Justin Purdue Pastor of Covenant Baptist Church in a total depraved nature of man while we do all this we seek to be charitable accessible and rich if this doctrine or even the five points of calvinism view and we've got apparently several restaurants were supposed to hit afterwards Some of you have made some great recommendation so excited about that a new to you and then on our members podcasts we discussed those who claim to be Calvin Harris and yet perhaps deny total depravity in their preaching going to be attending the here we still stand conference put on by fifteen seventeen network were really excited about that thanks to Daniel emery price for the DOC Tober Lord Willing we do plan to be going to San Diego and Metro La we're GONNA be spending some time out on the west coast the three of us the Theo cast guys we are Justin Justin you are our cultural update today what's going on in your world I am a Jimmy so my cultural update today is on behalf of the three of US lined up out there in San Diego and also in l. a. and then in Lancaster which is north of of La so Wednesday night we've got an identity San Diego Saturday night l. a. Sunday night were in Lancaster so if you're in those areas be planning to come meet US hang out we might be doing some live podcasts and some other fun stuff co cats encouraging weary pilgrims to rest in Christ conversations about the Christian life from reform perspective are really it's not just about me so by the time this podcast goes live and you the listener are hearing this it already the month of October and in the month of the shout out to us and offering us the opportunity to come and be a part of everything that's going on there that's October seventeenth through the nineteenth in San Diego Asheville North Carolina and myself Jimmy Bueller Pastor of Christ community church in Wilmer Minnesota good to see you guys again that to be here up so it's good to it's good to see you we have graciously have had several churches offer their buildings so that we could use them for the recordings and for meetings out there and so we hope to make most of the trip you can head over to Theo cast dot org and get more details on the plans for that west coast trip but for two meeting some of you and so that's a Thursday through Saturday that the conference itself will be going on the cast guys are GonNa be out there from Wednesday through basically like Monday morning so we've got several events church pondered you learned to never turn down anything free that's right that's absolutely true yeah space communion elements yeah I think it's it's GonNa be a lot of fun we've already heard from a lot of you we've kind of since some feelers out there just to see if people be interested in a lot of you've already signed Oh right so we'll tell you we tend to accept the recommendations that come with gift cards so I'm just GonNa throw I'm just excited I love San Diego. La Yeah I actually grew up near Lancaster so it'd be good to go I used to play its cooler football there so the all nighters we we gotta get this moving John You wanna introduce our topic for today so we are starting a new series on Calvinism or doctrines of grace for those of you who may have received this podcast as a recommendation from a friend or you were searching on they said the church planner I know listener that's right that's right so in really with three friends who have all wrestled at one point we were not reformed we were not calvinistic did not understand historically or the under find the giveaway things that they just don't WanNa take the time to take to the dump so that you want this now that's true we're not talking about turning into goodwill or anything like that we're talking about like really useful things could you use this high to bed in your church plant anyway and the salvation of man so that's what this podcast is about we're actually going to walk through the historic understanding of what we call calvinism we've come across a lot of what has been extremely helpful to really a tackle and and wrap your mind around God's Sovereignty Guler Youtuber your podcast APP for Calvinism this may have popped up for you and the goal behind this is a simple conversation banding of God's sovereignty and then have shifted to it and we probably have read and heard everything you shouldn't say that is offensive and not helpful and Sir anything you WanNa give me I'll take it that's right I'll take it we'll find sometimes though type not anything yes sometimes a bad thing is people heard all kinds of different histories of were calvinism came from and believe it or not before throat over to Justin John Calvin actually did not come up with the five points of Calvinism God and you relate to your brothers and sisters in Christ so that's that's the overview of the next five podcast today we're gonNA start with really most people they kind of her as we may not even know what the five points are so we'll walk through what each five point is and why historically and theologically we hold to them and then we will then the followers of a theologian named Jacob Armenia's wrote a manifesto a large document known as the remonstrance in which they were challenging a number or of the major doctrines of what was understood in that era to be historic Orthodox Christianity and so in the year sixteen eighteen and sixteen ends in the remonstrance but then to rebut those and to posit good theology from their perspective and so the we'll wait what shocking shocking so justin why don't you give us so the listener that may not know once you give us a brief overview of the history and really the import is behind the history of this movement. This will be a brief sort of dry by treatment of the history of the five points of calvinism there will be more information in the show that's for the listener if you want to do some reading on this from a historical and theological perspective but just for our understanding before we really launch into the rest of this conversation in the year sixteen nineteen a number of theologians convened at a meeting known as the Senate of dirt to discuss not only just the assertions of the Armenian the five points of calvinism and then walk through each point so total depravity it'd be the one that we cover today and if you're new to if you're new to the concept of Calvin half-century after Kelvin's death so he certainly was not the one that articulated the five points calvinism it's again the five heads of doctrine of the canons of dort summarized with this that Senate known as the Senate of Dort produced a number of doctrines a number of heads of doctrine and so what the five points of Calvinism are is a synopsis of the five heads of then try and give you some practical understandings of how this applies to things like your assurance the way in which you evangelized the way in which you see your hope before doctrine of the canons of Dort and so this is well after John Calvin is dead John to your point that you made Calvin died I admit fifteen hundreds and so this is happening over total depravity and what it isn't before we move into what it is yeah before we moved on from the history so what you're saying is that this is not something William T. U. l. i. p. total depravity unconditional election limited or particular attachment irresistible grace and the preservation or perseverance of the thanks so we're talking about total depravity today and real talk there's a lot of confusion out there about what total depravity is and we're going to chop it up for just a few minutes about you know it was more again a defense of Orthodox theology and that's where these things even came from in the first place I think that's super helpful because when he is that were asserted by by the Romanians in their remonstrance and so it was a defensive orthodoxy it was not some offensive assault upon what everybody else already thought and in his own intro he talks about how five hundred some years ago when Calvin boil down Christiane I think this is what I think God is in they assumed that the calvinistic perspective historically was the minority perspective but that simply wasn't the case I wanted to see what people really thought about this and I was reading a review of a book that a gentleman wrote against reformed or calvinistic theology a lot of times when people combat this theology they think it's created by a man it's not from the Bible and it was some guy who said listen this is what I see is back in the fifteenth century not at all so even in my own research looking at different books and resources I wanted to get the the other side of this the five points is not something assist in that someone created and said okay I am now going to teach these it's actually five points that a group of men and said we don't we are going to challenge the church at large that these five points are not consistent with scripture is that I haven't even say John Calvinism when it was coined was a derogatory term absolutely so it's not as though it's like Oh John Calvin and his followers were just like at the end of five points and I stopped there and I said I can't take the rest of this book seriously because this guy this particular author doesn't even understand allergy it does not mean that each of us has committed every possible sin or that everyone is equally depraved in terms of outward actions in other and under a section called how total is total depravity he writes this total depravity is often misunderstood as understood in reformation the over and against Armenians and others who were who are in the church at that time along with the history of being confused I would say there's also a he sadly like putting on the badge and waving the flag around that's not at all how this happens historically the men who identified themselves you know with even the key on I would even say that that it's a defense of Orthodoxy is really what it was because we've had people rising up again after our many utter depravity and what I mean by apple is that every single human across the globe is completely carrying out words what I think Michael Horton is pointing out there and what historic Christianity would say in terms of total depravity what we are not saying is are these five points just poor scholarship that's right very poor scholarship indeed yeah and I find that that unfortunately Fox Christianity and so what these men were doing who gathered at the Senate of Dort they were gathering to refute these new ideas you know these very rationalist it this is where I think Michael Horton professor out at Westminster Seminary in California is really helpful he has a little book called four Calvinism we could possibly be we are also not saying that there is no inherent good in the human race because we are made in God's image there is still in where I'm just GonNa say this briefly are many and theology is a census of post enlightenment rationalism and historic order see that's a lot of evangelicals are ignorant of church history an ignorant of historical theology and we need to understand too that the term every possible send that they can think of that's exactly right Jimmy what we are not saying is that human beings are as bad as history of confusing point one which is understanding of depravity of nat- or total depravity so I think it'd be helpful at this point to we just explained okay wait John Jimmy Justin you're you're making it sound like that man does not have the freedom to choose there's may subdue the sinful disposition of the heart they do not eradicate it so this is where the freedom of the will comes in because someone hears cannons of Dort In some of the certainly the guys who came after Calvin who embraced not only his theology but just kind of Orthodox Christian theology were labeled as Calvin exists of your person hood whether it's your emotions your will your your mind even your body has been affected by the fall in some point titian environment or job and so on all these frequently lead people to practice beautiful and praiseworthy virtues note however here's the key that while these factor will what we are saying in total depravity is that every single part of our person hood has been affected by the fall particularly in terms of our conversation today when we think about total depravity we are not again we're not saying utter depravity but in terms of our so this is what we would understand in light of equations to a Fijian's two verses one to ten where how does Paul describe errant good in man now that that image of God has been tragically marred and corrupted through the fall and we're GONNA be talking about that more later but we don't want to be misunder the human condition pre Christ what does he say you were dead so it's not that you are broken which is very across the street so how Jimmy how would you respond to that I think it's in understanding what do we mean by free will what do we mean by will in general has been affected by sin this is what we mean by total historically this has been known as the no epic effects of sin that every part stood I'm going to quote one other theologian we're going to be giving you mostly Bible throughout this podcast episode but it's good for us to to quote some guys who are have gone before us so that and what calvinism historically was not and now we're gonNA move to okay let's before we explain what total poverty is GonNa be what it's going to be helpful to explain what it is and so on but a variety of factors such as the natural love still inherent in every person the moral character fostered by bringing in struggle favourable circumstances of constant I think this is his new with us here's another reformed theologian named Herman Bobbing speaking to this very issue he talks about the fact that Calvin and the reformed have often honored the virtues of unbelievable ritual state we still have a will that we exercise and US we obviously make all kinds of choices were not saying that the will is not free in that better put you are at the bottom of the ocean kind of dead and so as we understand total depravity again what we are saying and he says this not only are many sinful deeds restrained by the sort of the government common civil decency public opinion the fear of disgrace and punish them is that every part of us has been affected by the fall even so when it comes to our will when it comes to the decisions we make you know we are we but yet every single day I see humanity choose to do evil or to do good and I'm having a hard time thinking that what you're saying when you say the property it means that people unless they're a Christian less there are Christian they don't they don't have the capacity to choose to help the old lady I will just obliterated in terms of nobody's making decisions and you're just a robot walking around but what we're saying is that your will has been tragically and irrevocable corrupted meaning that you in and out of yourself you know are unable to to change yourself and you're going to do what it is in your nature all of that yeah good way to put this capacity so the scripture speaks of the capacity of a human when you have the capacity to choose right and wrong own power to place this back within its historical context again one of the things that reformation theology was pushing against in Rome so incredibly helpful not only Paul tell us that we were dead in our trespasses and sins he tells us that we were following the course of the world he tells us that we were following the prince of the ends and our desires carrying out the desires of the body and the mind and were by nature like children of Wrath like the rest of mankind that's what we're saying about the will it's not that all human free long relatively speaking in other words to steal or not steal but you do not have the capacity to glorify and honor God or I would say you do not have the capacity to perfect to do and you are in fact a slave to Satan and your slave even to your own desires and you're acting in accord with life faith than it says without faith it's impossible to please God so total depravity means you were dead without the capacity to be otherwise in your is that those who again John Speaking to your conversation and your words about capacity those who take advantage of their own capacity sense what we're saying is that the will after the fall of man is no longer good and so again to go back to Fijian's two we may pick up on this more later but this is listen to their their their bodies meaning that the natural state they find themselves because he then contrast to those who are in the spirit those who in the spirit live lots of his heart was only evil continually that is a good you can absolutely do a good deed with the intentions of your heart still being wicked another Paul Buehler language today it's not that you needed fixing its you needed resurrection because you are dead face down in the water or perhaps even explains this very same concept in Romans chapter eight he says for the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God for it does not submit to the law of God and this is the important key indeed it cannot so he clarifies those who are in the flesh cannot please God what he means is those who are dead and only they just absolutely cannot accept the fact that he is the Messiah he is God and that the only way to the father through him so this is what he finally tells them in John to use modern language those who pick themselves up by their bootstraps God is going to help God helps those who helps the was this idea that Rome was putting forth that those who do what lies within God denies not grace in other words what that really means that there is no pulling yourself up by your bootstraps there is no again if you will cooperating with grace because again you are dead six you have people who see him feed five thousand people he his turning water into wine he's doing these amazing miracles CPR because we are dead dead people don't shake hands that people need to be brought back to life I think Jesus speaks to that very thing Jimmy in John Three to make the decisions imagine a light coker my gonNA like Pepsi but in terms of our relation to God we are dead to the things of God we are dead in our space Cleo God the reason we know this is that genesis genesis six five says the Lord saw the wickedness of man was great in the earth and that every intention of the thumb power the air the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience namely were slaves of Satan among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh were ruled by our passion we do not need a handshake with God that I will do my part and God will do his part we need total and complete resurrection we need total and complete south and really again this is what the five heads of doctrine in the canons of door pushing against per particularly this first one who's the stockton and then aim to place those within the broader narrative of scripture and hopefully point you to where we believe scripture actually does teach in terms of the whosoever will peace but then he also gives the kind of grounding underneath that in John Six thirty seven he says all whom the father gives to me will come to me even in the context of John Chapter Three immediately eight verses prior to John Three Sixteen Jesus tells Nicodemus how the new birth how conversion have capacity to to see the son of God standing before them in the flesh you know what Jesus doesn't say he doesn't simply say well if you're having a problem believing will then just even happens he tells him that the wind he compares the work in the Holy Spirit to the Wendy says you the wind blows where it wishes you hear the sound of it but you don't it's GonNa say what Jesus says because for whoever believes there saves so isn't that just free will right there Jesus says a number of things with respect to this I know where it comes from or where it's going sodas with all those who are who are born of the spirit and then even later on in John's Gospel in John Chapter six Jesus will put these two things right next to each other right similar people I think the common instinct for folks in the Evangelical World is that yeah we're messed up and where we're sinful and all those kinds of things give us life in our dead condition we will remain as we are and practically you see people talk all the time in a way that denied they came in the first place so what we're saying in this conversation about total depravity is that we in and of ourselves are unwilling and unable things but we still can take step towards God we can make a move towards got like yes we need grace you know and we can't save ourselves based on is this reality Jimmy you already picked up on what was being said in the Medieval Church will in the centuries that have transpired since that time people have said all kinds of things that sound our own merit we get that we need God's help we need his grace and his mercy but I can make a move toward God which biblically from the perspective of total unless he draws you this is John Three sixteen as well we always say well it says right there and that's the first verse right I mean Justin How do you answer that first verse someone's going to go to it says well I mean you know listen to me a little bit longer no he says very clearly that this is not you there's a you're not capable unless the father does something to the spirit so there's that and then whoever comes to me I will never cast out so you have that in one verse who have who so ever will make come but then also the reason and the ground underneath that is too wide to do anything about our spiritual condition so apart from the sovereign grace of God apart from the sovereign working of the Holy Spirit of God on six forty four no one can come to me unless the father who sent me draws him meaning they are wandering in their depravity they're wandering in their last depravity were saying no that's actually not true Jimmy like you said you're a dead person in your own casket and you can't open that casket dead people don't do stuff in that since God is the one that has to do we're excited to announce that we have a new free e book into God's grace nonetheless the will remains with the most eager inclination disposed and hastening to sin for man when he gave himself over I will therefore simply to will of man to will ill of a corrupt nature to will well of grace and so it's of man ultimately what it points even more so to is the grace of God in the salvation of sinners great point writes this because of the bondage of sin by which the will is held bound it cannot move toward good much less apply itself we do not change our own natural dispositions we need an outside of US alien work in the spirit of God to do that John Calvin Horton again to keep this conversation in context that total depravity as months it points to the wickedness Christ versus emphasizing once faithfulness to Christ and how one leads to rest in how the other often to a lack of assurance and tis necessity was not deprived of will but this is key that what John Calvin route says next was not deprived of will but of soundness there to four a movement of this sort is the beginning of conversion to God which in scripture is ascribed entirely I told you and you do not believe the works that I do in my father's name bear witness about me but you do not believe here's the key because you are not among my sheep access membership that's our monthly membership that gives you access to all of our material that we've produced over the last four years or simply by donating to our ministry sheep hear my voice and I know them and they follow me I give them eternal life and they will never perish and no one will snatch them out of my hand will someone say well yeah you that by going to our website theo cast out work we hope that you enjoy the rest of the conversation total depravity was embraced in its fullness us if total depravity was believed upon by the masses I would just make a prediction that the self help the Christian self help section in bar get this at Theo cast dot org slash primer and if you've been encouraged by what you've been hearing it theo cast would ask you to help partner with us you can do that by joining our total is a noble or whatever bookstore you may have it would just become on the erotic aided because what we would realize that we we do not change our own hearts the lack of capacity and often that he's Asoka so there's the pharisees are standing there they they they here I think they're actually beginning to understand what Oh John John Ten twenty four so the Jews gathered around him and said to him how long you keep us in suspense if you are the Christ tell us plainly Jesus answered them Jesus is saying not that they believe but they understand to the point where now they're angry and so they just want to make sure they just WanNa make sure they've got the right guy the winnipeg the right guy okay there the sheep of God because he's speaking of those who finally chose to be his followers and once they finally chose to be his followers now there this is the to continue on in John with the concept of of the tragedy of Man Jesus Multiple Times has to inform his disciples just about there his sheep and now the here is voice well he clarifies that in five chapters later John Fifteen sixteen speaking directly to his disciples he says you choose me but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide so that whatever you ask father's name he may give it to you it's very obvious as you work through John's words of Jesus that he was trying to get the point across that God sovereignly has to save because men are dead I am incapable of saving themselves just continue to pile this on and still using those red letters those words that Jesus spoke six again just to be crystal clear that the point where driving at here is our inability to do something about our natural spiritual condition organ in John's Gospel Yeah I mean obviously they're all inspired you know the the red letters are no more inspired than the black ones but but here we go John Chapter the Holy Spirit of God the sovereign working of God alone that would bring someone to faith in him human beings naturally do not shen Jesus and talking to his disciples says this to them in John Six sixty three he tells them it is the spirit who gives life the flesh is no help at all the words that I have spoken to your spirit in life but there are some of you who do not believe and he's just reiterating this reality that it is have that ability and to be really clear like lest we be misunderstood not only do we not have the bill the ability we don't have the desire either it's not as the that God has put on us naturally we do not want to come to Christ so were unable but we're also unwilling it's not what we desire we do not those who believe for the Jews demand signs in Greek seek wisdom but we preach Christ crucified a stumbling block to Jews and folly or stupidity naturally desire the things of God we desire other things in accord with our fallen nature Paul Paul speaks to that to Justin in First Corinthians I one he says in verse twenty one percents in the wisdom of God the world did not know God through wisdom it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save there are people who are wanting in some way to come to Jesus you know but but are being somehow hindered by this mechanical robotic limitation ends that the Gospel when being presented is not something someone logically can say Oh yes I accept that the is to the gentiles but to those are called both Jews and Greeks Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God so there it's very clear Paul understand doc praying dear Lord I pray that my friend coworker father brother sister whoever now in fact Paul says unless they are called they cannot come out of their depravity they can't come from death to life they are stuck here in this is what is a power that is outside of themselves let's think about this practically so you're a that would that wouldn't be helpful that would be I write let's listening you're half an hour into this conversation with us you're sitting at the table with us think about the unbeliever in your life how do you pray for their salvation what do you ask actually within themselves comes to a saving decision in Christ you're probably not praying that in fact you are actually probably praying at is a galvanised that you are asking God to do a supernatural

San Diego Lancaster Jimmy Bueller Calvin Harris John Moffatt US Justin Justin Senate Theo cassidy Justin Purdue Covenant Baptist Church Spring Hill Tennessee Daniel emery North Carolina Metro La Christ community church Wilmer Minnesota Asheville Kelvin four years
NPR News: 08-02-2019 10PM ET

NPR News Now

04:57 min | 1 year ago

NPR News: 08-02-2019 10PM ET

"Support Comes from our twenty nineteen lead sponsor of how I build this campaign monitor in email marketing platform with mobile friendly email templates dragon drop email L. Builder in customs support seven days a week more it campaign monitor dot com make your emails unforgettable live from N._p._R.. News News in Washington. I'm Jack Speer a corner in Santa. Clara County California says the gunman in this week's deadly shooting at a garlic festival double died by suicide in Beers Nathan Rot reports. That's at odds with earlier accounts which indicated he was killed by local police police in Gilroy California say they engaged gauged the gunman in last Sunday's shooting within a minute of the start of his attack. The gunman fired back. Here's Gilroy police chief Scott Smith at a press conference Prince Friday afternoon highs by the wrath rousers fire which was down but Smith says it appears now following report by the county medical examiner that the gunman while down also shut himself causing his death. The clarification comes as authorities are still trying to work The shooting which left three people dead and thirteen others wounded Nathan N._p._R.. News Pedro Pierluisi is the new governor of Puerto Rico sworn in a short time ago. Oh after Ricardo rose CEO stepped down as promised an email from his office rose CEO saying that Pierluisi does not require confirmation from both houses of the territory's legislature because he was named secretary of state row CEO was forced to step down amid mass protests over corruption is chosen successor is widely expected interface similar protests and possibly illegal challenge a bottled water company in Massachusetts that was found to be selling tainted water shutting down as Gabriella Umbrella Emmanuel of W. G. B. H.. Boston reports the water had elevated levels of chemicals known as P. Fas- that have been linked to numerous health problems a month ago. Massachusetts officials warned get that infants as well as pregnant and breastfeeding women should not drink bottled spring water from the Spring Hill Water company. The state did not order the product pulled from shelves the last week media outlets reported the contaminated water was being sold across New England under various brand names. The company says in a statement that while it's fixed the the problem the adverse media coverage the potential for For N._P._R.. News I'm Gabriella Manual in Boston. President trump now says representative John Ratcliffe will not be his nominee to be the next director of intelligence making the announcement trump blaming unflattering news coverage and sang he'll soon announce another nominee to oversee the nation seventeen U._S. civilian and military and intelligence agencies ratcliff had come under fire for lack of experience for position and possible exaggerations in his resume trump loyalist who served for six months and the House Intelligence Committee ratcliff ratcliff confirmed as withdrawn his name from consideration replaced. Dan Coats stocks paired some of their earlier losses. Though the market ended the week sharply lower the Dow was down Ninety Eight points points today twenty six thousand forty five Nasdaq by one hundred seven points. This is N._p._R.. In Brooklyn Today on B. Singer Ark Kelly pleaded not guilty to five federal criminal charges brought against him by the Eastern District of New York Beers styles IUS Lucas Two decades Kelly has already pleaded not guilty to the thirteen federal charges in Illinois. The New York charges include one count racketeering and for charges urges of sex trafficking. The New York indictment refers to five alleged victims including three girls in denying bail the judge call the charges quote incredibly incredibly serious he also said that he was quote extremely troubled that some of the current federal allegations include obstructing justice during the two thousand eight criminal trial at which he was acquitted on a says he had syllabus N._p._R.. News New York A. New Study finds. It's not just young adults who binge drink. That's having more more than five drinks for men and four drinks for women at least once in the past month in a new nationally representative survey polled nearly eleven thousand people eleven percent of adults sixty five and older also reported binge drinking the data showed levels of drinking more common among men smokers drug users and people with chronic health or mental illness problems problems researchers say it's nowhere because older Americans are more vulnerable to health effects from drinking because of health problems or medicines they take oil closed up a dollar and seventy. Many one cents a barrel to fifty five sixty six a barrel

Nathan N._p._R Pedro Pierluisi ratcliff ratcliff Boston CEO Massachusetts New York representative Jack Speer Ark Kelly Washington Scott Smith Spring Hill Water Gilroy California John Ratcliffe New York Beers Gabriella Manual Dan Coats Nathan Rot Santa
Spiritual Weariness

Theocast - Reformed Theology

40:29 min | 1 year ago

Spiritual Weariness

"Hi this is jimmy and anthea casts. Today we cover the idea of life in a fallen world and the difficulty that comes from that the reality of the grind of everyday life life the reality of the grind of the christian life and the spiritual weariness that can come from those things and sadly how often the church has become a place where are those burdens that weariness can grow rather than christ being offered as a place of rest and so we move to the idea of the ordinary means of of grace and the rest we do find through the gospel in those things so we're excited for you to listen stay tuned welcome to theo cast encouraging being weary pilgrims to rest in christ conversations about the christian life from a reformed perspective are today are john moffatt pastor of community bible church in spring hill tennessee just purdue pastor of covenant baptist church in asheville north carolina and myself jimmy bueller past christ community church and wilmer minnesota oughta. How's it going today. Guess it's good. It's going all right. <hes> yeah little tired. We did a late recording. We're still in altogether national right. Now did a late recording last night. Which was a lot of fun. It was fun conversation open to do a couple more before you guys had back today. Yes i wish we could do this. Week would just ford to fly guys in records mortenson you out but you know membership yeah ticket on up. We'll love. That's the best listener you're thinking. Do you mean by jet asked. If you're thinking yourself. I want to make that happen for them. But jimmy does know a pilot that lives in springhill truth truth be told i do john god be praised john what's going on your world. Well i am in the process of trying to buy a car and <hes> i will tell you. There are two things that there's there's nothing out more than two things in life one finding a new job bob which thankfully i won't have to do that hopefully for a while and number two buying a new car. I don't mean new but i mean new to me sharp and <hes> yeah. I <hes> i'm i'm a very decisive person but when it comes down to a car it's such a big commitment. I'm always afraid of buying a lemon or not buying the right kind of car and and so and there's tons of opinions on cars there are yeah what you shouldn't shouldn't have yeah so. I hear you so that's yeah. That's my world right now. I'm probably gonna end up with a truck because i do live on a property that needs a truck four by four never bad to have a truck. No no see i would laugh when people have like in the the throws of the city and dirt will never see their tires and they have like this monster four by four sure <hes>. I don't really need that but gopher aman. Whatever floats your boat now here yeah but it's exhausting. I mean it makes me it is yeah speaking of come on speaking of justin. We'll be talking about today. We are talking about weariness guys something that is incredibly common in this fallen world in which we live and we're gonna try to assess that honestly the and and then also talk about the fact that sadly the church has not helped with this <hes> and we hope this is helpful conversation for people and just just thinking about this from a reform perspective <hes> the posture of the reformers in their concern for the weary christian pressure and just talk together about trying to care for for people in a local church context who find themselves regularly exhausted yeah so i guess the question to begin with is when we say weariness cygnus. What do we mean by that. I mean there's two forms right. You have physical exhaustion physical weariness and then you have spiritual sure <hes> or mental yea i would i yeah i i think the two tangled mystically emotional mental weariness sorta thing physical weariness earth is saying and spiritual. We're in which it really you know that's the focus of this unspiritual weariness and t wouldn't tends to happen as if you know if you've been following the cast for any amount of time we are trying to point out in different ways where rest is robbed where you should find rest or you can find rest. It's often robbed from you and so that's i think really the the heart behind are the symptoms weariness <hes> people who just feel as if they never get to a point where they have energy it's constant beatdown if they didn't listen to our last week's podcast. I think this would definitely be build on that. <hes> a transition from that and so if if this is your first episode i encourage you to go back and listen to <hes> relates kind of the dark the dark side of christianity yeah yes so in in thinking about weariness it might be good for us to state out of the gate that life in a fallen world is hard beats us up one side and down the other yeah yeah and i mean in in genesis chapter three immediately after sin enters the world words like pain and toil and strife and thorns orange diesels and death and all these show up very words they are and they're they're very sober words and i think all of those words resonate with our experiences because we live life in this world and toil and vanity and all of those things just continually pop up in my day to day grind is real yeah. I think it's interesting. I mean if you were to watch out. Let me let us take kind of a daytime time. Television example kind of your run of the mill talk shows that are going on it. Oh i mean it always seems like your morning. News your daytime t._v. I mean even the the blog world is just so primarily concerned with how to have more energy how to how to to combat being tired you know so it's a theme that i mean not even just a christian world but the world is fully aware of that we are. We're just tired. People yeah. I think david david sol's we did an interview with him and his book on city yeah. There's a chapter on business. And how do you feel justified in yourself and then you're being that you're a better person. You're an acceptable person based upon your business right i. If have you ever ask somebody how're you doing. Do you get to answers. I'm either really tired or i'm just so busy right and typically people are busy from being tower for minnesota. Say i'm good how and what what what what's going on in this is that you you feel as if you if you weren't performing at a certain level doing something at a certain level than you are less than or you're going to be falling behind. I don't know about you but if you if you ever get around someone who is really hot hot up on a topic or a movement <hes>. I love justin here but like cross fit people. Make me so tired. We're going through their food dietary. The people that are on a certain whether it's kito or he's paleo food is a moral issue right so you get around these people and or or if it's a vegan and they can just make you so exhausted because if you don't view at their way share at the exact same intensity they do then then they're gonna make sure you know and they're just going to grind you down into the point that you finally given and and it's not even it doesn't even have to be that well making their transition to spiritual yeah it. It can be anything yeah. You know. I'll just i'll throw myself under the bus you know when i when i first got into quote unquote calvinism yeah the doctrines of grace i i mean i wasn't untolerable person yeah 'cause nobody was saved right sure but me you know it was just like men. You don't don't even to even read your bible yet. You know it was just but we do that. Oh yeah liza leading. We yeah for sure we we heap in all all these various areas of life. We heap burdens upon people. This is what we do. We'll try out as fallen human beings. I think the fad driven christianity is is what i think is at. Maybe the root of a lot of weariness because you you run from fad just like anybody who runs from diet to a diet or the next financial planner the next financial plan win in christianity. We've seen so many fads and i would say in the conservative round even in the semi air quotes reformed world. If it calvinistic evangelical right so you had the resurgence movement you have the radical movement you have the you know desiring god movement you have these movements where at their our core they are evangelical sir but they are pressing in on you to do something in a certain way and if you don't do it then you're less than dan and that may be unfair in some of those movements sure but what it produce it in me in almost every one of these that i actually looked into it produced just exhaustion christian and i think what's common in a lot of these contexts is. I've heard you guys before you know d._o. Cast talk about this. There's a christian way to do. Everything is right you know and then that that is a conversation about over spiritual ization. It's related to this because when you spiritual eyes everything it is just flat out exhausting listing. It's right like there. There's no safe space to just have a conversation yeah. We're talking about life broken. You watch this movie. Can you just watch it. You're yeah and you're not talking about like spiritual parallels or scriptural parallels. Can we just watched the movie yeah and it's fine. You can do that now shrine but but i think you know at least for me want one could do that. You can do that on a list of options so when i was in when i was in bible college you know <hes> what i was involved. I mean it was that was the thing to do. You know you couldn't merely watch batman. I mean you had to overlay look vaterland. Oh yeah and it just went batmans good because it doesn't have any of that is true so but but what i'm trying to say is we can do that to the point where we can actually take the simple pleasures that god has given us yeah and we can turn them. I'm not you know we can ship them from gifts that he's given us into just like i mean that's the food example right. You're exactly right now. I agree freeman like what we ended up doing. Is we take all of these good gifts that god has given us for our enjoyment for our pleasure to encourage us to gladden our hearts and we just suck the joy in the life right out of it. That's right by doing this very thing and this is an epidemic earned the church. It just contributes to the weariness so we all feel the i agree. I agree so guys. We've we've referenced this a little bit. You know we're we're starting to make that shift talking about how weariness in the christian world is a real thing because because i don't have to convince you that everyday life is wearisome particularly. If you have small children they know amen somebody that's rife f- somebody saying a man or you just have to be on social media ryan right yeah. We are more overloaded in our culture. Today i mean just with the amount of advertisement and and information that we consume that our brains are so tired but but justin yo you you referenced this earlier talking about how the church you know typically historically arkley we wanna see the church as a place of rest in a haven for centers a haven for people who are weary right but how church can become the place where the weariness is multiplied yeah so if we think about the medieval church that gave birth to the reformation it was certainly a works based i schema it was full of moralism. The legal scheme the legal scheme the idea that the saint needed to cooperate with god in his or her justification and sanctification and the like and i am not saying that the evangelical church is just like the medieval church. I am not saying that but i think we all allegri around this table that there are similarities in the medieval church and the current evangelical moment where there is so much thrust upon the christian that we we need to be doing in cooperating with god. Essentially you know in this thing called our salvation right yeah. One of the phrases from the medieval church was for those who do what lies within god denies not grace moyle and so you know i mean we we. We don't say it like that. We wouldn't say like but we would. We would almost oh say it. In the way of god. God helps those who help themselves so you show up on her. You need to do your part. You show up on his so. Let's let's break it out for those who are about to <hes> of coming hang out of church service you've shown up most likely you are beat down by the reality of your sin in yourself the reality of sin around you and just the frailty of your body you sit down and a few you hear songs about what i will do. I will commit myself to you. I we'll do this for you. I will sacrifice myself for you so you are singing. You know not instant you'd if you're paying attention and very much emotionally driven what you we'll do for god yeah then you sit down and you open your bible and you then are given an a- very appealing story about either. There's someone who has done well did not do well and then the the call is these are the ways that you can go out of here and be a better you yeah or i. I might even frame it. Perhaps in a more provocative way so often. I think people during the preaching time get not like this list of things that they need to be doing and concerning themselves. It's like all right now. Head on out of here and don't disappoint god try you know and so yeah in in the church service the point of of so much of it is what we need to be doing whereas all were wanting to come in and say his look people need to fundamentally here about what god has done for them in christ jesus before before they ever need to hear about what they need to be doing absolutely because when you do look at it they don't feel as if there is a progression but not in reality we fake the progression right like my hair present so long i got rid of the earrings and whatever whatever you think christianity low hanging fruit cost and i'm i'm not i'm not chewing. Whatever so we feel like without all all that is this what would say cultural acceptability. She is a moral progression yeah but it not status of righteousness ride so the soul that we're we're talking about right now. Which is that part of it. That's weary as a christian is not finding rest because what's been given to the believer is not means of abreast yeah some reading a book right now by zach swain spurgeon sorrows talking about great book yeah the struggle with <hes> what's version will call melancholy. Today we would call depression. <hes> you know i'm i'm not sure that we can use those terms interchangeably but i think there's some heavy similarities and <hes> zach swine on author of the book he he quotes from the manual of psychological medicine that road about this real condition back in the day of what they called religious this melancholia that the church wasn't being the haven of rest that it promised to be or that christ instituted it to the wrong but rather became the place where law was added upon law and said there's this quote from the manual of psychological medicine says this it is hardly necessary to say that christianity the undistorted and preached in its just proportions is calculated to prevent not cause insanity. The exciting 'cause of religious melancholy is sometimes to be traced to the fiery denunciations of well-meaning but injudicious preachers and i find that quote just to be fascinating because because one again you go ask a pastor i do you love laying the law on your people and of course what are they going to say. No i wanna appoint my people to jesus but you if you look at the disposition of the congregation or they're coming in almost to get you know they're they're. They're coming to get like that the religious whipping the scolding the scolding to to push them into action. You know it's the use of the law to motivate avait christian unto the victorious christian life rahaman a lot of times we talk about legal preaching or being the law what people have in their mind is the angry angry fundamentalist on top of the pulpit who screaming people but i'll tell you some of the most heavy law preaching or what i would say motivational sermons people who are we're actually in the prosperity gospel leanings even a guy like joel ulstein view actually listen to osteen's sermons they are forcing you into into performing and thinking at a level that is unrealistic and anti-gospel as we think about his sermons. It's all about claiming this moment with the lord and i'm having this if you have the right attitude god response to that attitudes of positive thinking positive attitude positive vibes well if you are in a sinful decaying weary body and you're trying to motivate yourself to do something that is impossible to do that only breeds more exhaustion yeah and this is the insanity of just self help right sure because myself is what needs help nope and so i'm going to self help myself. That's the insanity. It isn't saying you need to be rescued from you absolutely right or go to someone who has done it and do what dated sure jimmy you said something earlier in talking about how intolerable you were absolutely countered the doctrines of grace and f i personally it it find this to be ironic when people do encounter for the first time the doctrines of grace calvinism even start to walk into a reformed kind of world context and they are there in that cage stage <hes> but a lot of times people in that moment end up bludgeoning bludgeoning other saints to death scher in the requirements that they begin to heap on people sheriff and i know for us obviously we aim to be taking up the mantle ansel of the reformers who sought to comfort and protect the weary christian. I find it interesting that a lot of times you you see the guy in the church. That's rocking the john. Calvin is my homeboy t-shirt. Who's ever who's never read calvin death right yeah. Maybe he has maybe hasn't probably read a lot of calvin seventies rock and a t shirt and he's got this approach to christianity. We sometimes c._b._c. like to joke around and call it green beret christianity where it's like man we gotta make get we gotta make it hard like we got we got place demands and burdens on people so that they'll grow and people need to be out the fakers reading this in there in in the bible they need to be reading this kind of theology and doctrine and all the rest and if you're not doing that you need to have this kind of countenance on your face apparently when you're singing hymns and if you're not then and man there's just not enough join the lord here and the irony of that. Is that like bro john calvin the guy that's on your t-shirt. If he were alive today would be seeking to protect the saints from people like you. We're excited to announce that we have a new free book available at our website called faith versus versus faithfulness a primer on rest and we the host put this together to explain the difference between emphasizing one's faith in christ versus emphasizing wants faithfulness to christ and how one leads to rest and how the other often to a lack of assurance and you can get this at theo cast dot org slash primer and if you've been encouraged by what you've been hearing the cast would ask you to help partner with us. You can do that by joining our total access membership. That's our monthly membership. That gives gives you access to all of our material that we've produced over the last four years or simply by donating to our ministry. You can do that by going to our website theo cast out at work. We hope that you enjoy the rest of the conversation. So i think a lot of that. You know the the whole ally dea of you know we need to raise the spiritual temperature the spiritual barometer of the church and you will too to john. You just said it to weed out the fakers i. I think there's an smart little mountain yeah. There's an element of no perhaps that desire that hope you know is is well meaning. You know i just read that nicole. It's well meaning fertile impune motivation right <hes>. It's well-meaning at first however what happens is you almost almost become the police in the church. You become the police of this person's. Affections aren't there this person's feelings aren't there their desires aren't there and and so we become kind of flash in the pan if i don't see it within a two week timeframe man when you think about that like you think about about how like i'm just thinking of my church personally some of these people i've known less than five years and so i wanna take a really long longview with their life yeah that when we talk about difficult weary seasons. I'm not talking about a couple of weeks. It could be a decade <hes> so the observation i have made sir when one believer will cast judgement and say they are lazy christian which there are such things yeah absolutely sure very clear. We're not denying that now. We're not gonna flatten that what i step back and say you're looking at it from one angle. I'm looking at it from the angle of actually this is probably probably a christian who was so beat down from being weary. He has not energy. He's not lazy. It's just he's got nothing. It doesn't make sense wants to him anymore. So why even try which is not the right attitude and it is a sinful attitude but i think that christianity has gotten so confused and convoluted people go why try and it's so it's not an issue of laziness you come in with gentleness and you begin to show them the glory of christ in the gospel and all of a sudden these these people are motivated again and i didn't even yell at him right so when i was going through my season of a pretty acute depression anxiety <hes> which to be quite honest could be traced to a lot of piloting understanding of the christian life i came across this pretty comical video where it was like mental health awareness month and they put out this video where they talked about what if we treated physical health the same way we treat mental health oh and so there's there's this comical part it where there's a man lying in bed and it clearly looks like he has some sort of life threatening disease like cancer and then somebody barges into the hospital the room and says hey man have you just tried not having cancer. Oh mary but it's funny but but honestly when we when we look at the weary believer yeah we do that. We we can so easily say you know. The joy of the lord is your strength bro. Yeah like get off your butt and get on your knees and start praying. Start reading right you know and and i'm sure when we grab coffee next week. You'll be doing much better. That's right yeah yeah. If you can just you discipline yourself out of this you you'd be able to figure it out which demonstrates a tremendous amount of even if it's well intention it demonstrates a tremendous amount of ignorance because so and and it's it's it lacks compassion altogether because so often nobody wants to be out of the throws of sin more than the person who's in it right a and we forget that reality and i think as a pastor one of the things that i always want to guard against and protect against in our church is this kind of just oppressive judgment. You know being replaced on people because i think so often we do expect that like sanctification is something we can microwave wave right. You know like man you should you should see this kind of instantaneous and even if it's not instant it should be relatively quick and it's like yeah man. We're playing the long game here by saying that were playing a long game. That's not a justification to just like overlook every short term problem. That's not what we mean but my goodness it's the spirit of god working in the saint over the course of years years and decades <hes> you know that will bear much fruit and conformed to the image of christ there. There's a reason why fear tactics guilt or using because you have in my opinion again not lazy but weary cushions and your call him to a bible says akaka. You'll be so encouraged. You should come in their mind. They're thinking no. You're going to get more lawn me sure and i'm going to have more requirements and i won't won't be able to perform them and so what's the next step then well then you know i'm worried about. I'm worried about whether you're a christian or non european. We're going to move into church discipline which again i i am not excusing disobedience laziness. I'm just saying our diagnosis. Within the even conservative evangelical church is the it makes sense you know and i see i have seen in the modern day preacher and i'm not gonna name names but there are people get up and they get angry with people who you're not taking church serious and they aren't participating like they should and i stand with those weary people go if that's my diet <hes> if that's what you're offering me no wonder i am so fatigued than exhausted so guys you know. I just want to yield to you to you. I mean you guys have been in the ministry. Been your churches are moving running and so we've we've said on on theo casts. We don't just want to deconstruct dry but we want to reconstruct. You know our our tagline. Wine is encouraging weary pilgrims to chris so just passed orally. How is it that you guys have cared for. Those you know the weary center the weary saint that has sat across the desk from you so i have had recently. I've had a kind of inflex a lot of varying people from different degrees so i've had one that comes from a very pretty strong wrong ba- <hes> formulas baptist background and then i had another one who's coming who is an unbeliever really i think but is coming in weary at the same and they're coming in different weary points yeah and what what is interesting is they are so intrigued by the fact that christ is enough <hes> in it's hard for them to believe it. What do you mean by because they're so used to so one who's coming from non christianity and has been living in the south now for seven years and is so like literally my church when he came in the men's bible study was his last shot. He's like do this one more time you were. I think we're that night. Ma justin was there yeah and a- <hes> <hes> well you know yeah but <hes> and then this other gentleman who has grown up church of christ now in a baptist church and exhaust. I mean literally exhausted to the point where he begins to question his assurance so my job immediately lately is to assess where they are because you can't walk them to christ until you remove the obstacles yeah says a shepherd i feel like i'm i can't reconstruct christ leist to be treasured until i could can move these obstacles out of the way so i recently. I went in the last essay recently last couple of years. I was giving a talk with <hes> some high school students professing christian. I mean christian group of high school students right and i asked kind of let off with this question and said amongst your peers. How do you think christianity is most misunderstood and to a man like ninety percent in the room say well my my friends think that christianity is about all this stuff that you're supposed is to do sheriff and the things of course you're supposed to not do and i think that that is certainly true. Characteristic of evangelical church where are the gospel so often is assumed. It's footnoted right. It's oh yeah we got the gospel but now let's move on to talk about what we really need to be considering littering and that's the christian life and so that's where yeah like the the general default posture in the church is yeah. We're gonna talk about everything that i need to be doing and the christian shows azzam already talked with us to the worship service expecting in one sense to be scolded to holiness jeff and yes when we come in and we read like the words of christ. Come come to me all who labor and are heavy laden and i'll give you rest. It's like wait what that's not at all been what my experience now is you know take my yoke upon you and learn from me from gentle and lowly in heart. You'll find rest for your souls when we tell them that. Christ is enough that he has accomplished everything that could ever be unnecessary that all the righteousness that you'll ever need he has accomplished for you and it's counted to you completely by faith true yeah. It's like oh my god well. You know to call right now. That's that's right off. Come i'll come. I'll play the organ so yeah. I was speaking with a friend of mine. You know reading some various materials speaking with a friend of mine and we were talking about how you know not even in the christian world but the natural language of the world is law no we don't we don't have to we. We don't have to make that up like the natural language of the world is do this right. Do this get a paycheck. <hes> you raise your kids this way. You know as parents you know one. One thing that i've been mindful of is how much i speak law into my kids and i'm not since you have to yeah yeah because you don't want you know idiots running around but there's difference of instruction russian and law reiten but how you know the natural language of the world is law do this live and so what we want what we're taming for if we if we're talking about you know relief from the weariness coming from you know the ordinary means of grace <hes> the gospel preached just to to us over us relief coming from the body of christ. We want that sunday morning. Lord's day or whenever it is that you meet to be the place where the law is given to us but the gospel is there y- the gospel is preached the rest that christ offers is quickly weekly given yeah so before we have opening scripture reading and move our congregation to this moment of of engaging demeans right so the preaching the word <hes> and the sacraments i always stand up for the congregation and say i know if you are anything like me. You're exhausted and beat down and tired tired of trying to live up to the expectation right you walk out of here last sunday invigorated by the gospel and then fell flat on your face on monday realizing realizing sunday isn't close enough and that is a as the posture of that i want our church to have is that we are here not having to perform not having to fake and when someone walks into this context and realizes that oh oh i i can look to christ and i don't have to perform and then this this status and this position allows me then to freely go out and love and care but it's a hard transition it is and so one of the things that i always aim to do as a pastor knowing that my people like i'm assuming i'm assuming that the people sitting sitting in front of me who are members of the church where i'm a pastor i'm assuming that they're redeemed and regenerate and they want to obey joy in their inner man. They delight in the law of god. That's my assumption and at the same time i realized that their consciences haunt them yeah apps the fact that they are failing feeling in it in it haunts them rex them right and it chases after them and so i- delight to be able to talk to people about the work of christ force like think about hebrews ten fourteen eighteen for by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. Come off where we can look at the saints nights and say hey you. You are being sanctified like it's a process. It's gonna take time and it. It's gonna be a decades long thing and at that same time while that's ongoing you have been perfected by the work of christ jesus and you can rest on the solid rock of him in his this mayor raymond in that's that's what gives the weary pilgrim rest and i think that when you sit down across from someone there are two people you have those those who are probably being beat down by law they're weary and then you have those who've given into send and so they need to be confronted. What's interesting that they're both actually sinful people and those who are stressing <unk> out there still the same because one became beat down by temptation and they gave in eventually and they need to be called back to restoration this glaciers five and six right and then the other has been beat down by the law which is inappropriate use of the gospel my encouragement to those who are insent which we deal with this and our own lives lives in her is that we often don't deal with temptation the way in which the church has been commissioned to do it in other words before we started the podcast today we talk yeah we were talking about how as christians we carry around our responsibilities by ourselves so we carry the weight of fighting often tation and then we carried there are crisp responsibilities. We carry these things to the point that we become exhaustion and then give in to sin where the christian is is called to be a part of a body yes when when all of the different gifts are being used and all the different parts of the body are being used. Was it say it doesn't say exhausts itself builds itself up in while right yeah so i i say this constantly to where it's it's even joke at my church. The christian life is not meant to be lived alone and <hes> and when i sit across from somebody who typically has fallen into sin or they are struggling. We what i asked him is where where. Where are you week in trusting this. Does this body got. Is i mean why have you pulled yourself out. Yeah and honestly i mean we reference surly or the idea of just ordinary means yarbrough. <hes> this is why i know all of us around the table are just massive proponents of weekly lord's lords table yeah yeah weekly lord's table where talk about an ultra cool yeah. That's that's what it is. It's a response to the worse. The rial to quell and it's you know the language shove we we heard the gospel audible and now we see the gospel visible and how quickly though the lord's table you know. I know for me the a lot of times now. I'm not saying that the church i grew up in presented this way but i think my understanding was. The lord's table itself was almost law. No examine yourself from make sure and what i took that to be the way it was often spoke about was make sure you have confessed all the sins that you committed this week so that when you come to this table you're not gonna die. You take the elements but but really what the what the table tells us you know that as surely as we drink this cup and eat this bread and it were participating in the body of god is god is using to these means to sanctify you yes yes before. I thought to you justin yeah just to help people with that. This church actually had lost the gospel message at the table. That's what paul was rebuking them yeah. They were turning it into a feed my belly. That's absolutely now. The lord's supper thing jimmy i i just want to pick up on that really quickly before i offer one of the thought is meant meant the lord's supper in my experience like it was the most anxiety producing moma absolutely like every three months. How often did it. I'm serious where it literally really was like man. Not only you had you had you better confess. Every sentence like you need to work yourself up into an emotional frenzy in terms of just being wrecked over your sand because if you're not appropriately grieved every so you're saying you're probably not really repentant all these kinds of things and man yeah. It just became this thing where it was all about my faithfulness yeah not about god's faithfulness to me got his coming tonight on the ends and that's what's so devastating for people and that that is that the paradigm faith versus faithfulness that we talk about all the time that sacraments are so often manipulated and misunderstood to be made about the devotion of the believer not the faithfulness of god him or her yeah and you think about i mean think eh i mean think about the beauty. It's a meal wouldn't meals do they. Norrish and sustain they nourish the stain. You give you relief f- young like ma. I mean think about just the physical hunger that you experience you know i mean america we don't really experience hunger and ways but but think about you know the times uh-huh at you're you're so hungry and you sit down before a meal and you dive in and there's savoury and sweet an enjoyment and that is the lord's table yeah. I would say what there was a lot of confusion. When i was first in to the reformed faith i didn't understand how the eating of the bread and the wine and baptism azzam warren means what you do understand. Is that <hes> they are what we call sensible means. They are what we look. You can see touch and feel it so the gospel message is communicated communicated through that which we actually engage with so the word is preached over us and then we do physically what's happening spiritual as you eat the brad and as you eat the wine or drink the wine and you're using that to come into your body right that is a picture of the gospel of jesus feasting of us feasting and nourishing our faith as paul says strengthening our faith and in the same thing with baptism yeah so you mentioned a minute ago john how were not meant to live the christian life in isolation. We are meant to live the christian life in the body of christ and that's four our good in one of the things that we're told we do for each other as the regained is that we bear one another's burdens and sorrows right and so i've jamie and i were talking about this last night because he's about to launch inch his his church were almost four years in and we just talking about how even when you plant a church with a group of people who are relatively like minded theologically. It's not like like a healthy culture exists from the jump. It's right like that takes time to build and one of the things that we've seen at c._b._c. is over the course of years as christ has been heralded and were pointing people. Oh jesus and all these things it is making the church a legitimately safe place where people can come and they can talk about their burdens in their weariness in their weakness in their frailty with with their brothers and sisters and lean on each other to where we're beginning to see that picture of how the saints really are like locking arms with each other and in one sense carrying each other a long you in this pilgrimage called the christian life and this kind of theology that we're talking about here at the cast weekly it it allows for floor and facilitates and build that kind of a culture in a church i think for the members podcast we should probably <hes> talk about one how to create that accurate passer answer to what if you're in a church in another pastor and it doesn't exist. How do you create. How do you handle idea establish. This was good guys. I i feel like we have a lot talk about still and the members podcast so if you are interested if you're listening and you're curious as to what that members podcast is you can head over to theo cast dot org and you can check that out and we have a fourteen day trial where you can actually listen for free but for those who have total access membership you can just sit tight. Maybe grab your favorite beverage. If you're driving make sure that beverages legal reader understand that the reader understand listener understand and <hes> we'll see over numbers podcast cast. Thank you for listening to theo cast. If you'd like to contact us or find out additional information about our membership you can do so at theo cast dot org.

justin theo john calvin jimmy bueller azzam warren covenant baptist church purdue ford bob asheville north carolina paul zach swain mortenson wilmer minnesota spring hill tennessee david david sol depression minnesota
The Dark Side of Christianity

Theocast - Reformed Theology

42:25 min | 1 year ago

The Dark Side of Christianity

"Hi this is justin today. On theo cast. We're going to be talking about the darkness and the evil that exists within all of us the christian life. This is often anything but clean. It's messy. It's hard were not always on this nice clean upward trajectory of ongoing improvement. We're going to talk honestly about that and talk honestly about the fact that it's impossible to navigate the christian life in in this fallen world until we come to grips with who we really are. We're excited to have this conversation and we hope that it's helpful to you. Stay tuned the welcome suit theo cast encouraging e pilgrims to rest in christ conversations about the christian life from a reformed perspective. Our hosts today are dr john moffatt pastor of community bible church in spring hill tennessee jimmy bueller pastor of christ community church and wilmer minnesota and i'm justin purdue pastor of covenant. What about this church in asheville north carolina jimmy. You have the cultural update for today man. What's going on in your world yeah so we are in the process of planting a church as the listener may remember from the interview that we did and various outlets in whoever's listening. I mean this. This is like probably this thing we've ever done right very easy. Planting a church money's lower it is yeah you gotta pull a lot of weeds. The hope you're talking about turk members threaten another no no so we are in what we're calling the core family face and so essentially we've gathered nine core families eighteen adults that number plus of children a lot of those are three to five or that resonates with me yeah. It can be pretty crazy so we're getting we're getting to the phase also were pretty ansi launch because right now. We're meeting in homes less than sixty days away right yeah yeah so around there. You know we were using the the language of where on nobody's time about our own on <hes> because we wanna make sure that we have some bases covered that we know what we're walking into <hes> so we're excited i did <hes> people are excited. People are beginning to ask about the church plants and you know. Can i come in and we have this policy. You know that the core famous phases this is not a revolving door because it can just really play with the dynamics of the team <hes> the the launch team if you will not to use that overly use use language but <hes> but yeah so we're we're excited. I'm getting antsy <hes> and this might sound strange but i think the thing that i'm most most antsy for is just to to preach and worship with people. Take the table with me. You know because you miss those things were. We're ordinary means of grace guys. We understand that and so yeah. We're we're getting excited. I remember when i was there. Man there is a felt like it was six months <unk> of organizing an i am a very organized person in general but the the idea of ministering the gospel loving on people and then just organization the the details right that you wish you could just like when you hire somebody to move you can hire moving company. You just wish you could hire somebody to just do all the the details for you knew you just worry about loving people in jeopardy him yeah those those times. I can remember the mall through their exciting on the one hand. They're very frustrating on the other and yeah yeah. There's a lot of anticipation church. Planning is no joke. It's not a job. You're talking about it before. I i know that my wife and i talked regularly about this that the lord's done a lot of good in the last four years and we've never wanna do these for years again there you have that for john willett talking about before we talk all day for those of you. You're listening and care but please pray for jimmy yeah. He's about to go through a very hard season of life. That's right. How old are your children again by the time that you hear this so pre about about seven five and two yeah so yeah you can have that christ community that orgy check us out. Give the poor minute donations they they are taking c._v._s. lutely and silicon for location from where we are. We are looking for location. It's not as easy as has. Perhaps we thought servers place. It was too pop. Wilmer wilmer itself is twenty thousand. I mean there's other areas around us. I couldn't give you an exact number because i don't know how far you want. Get mile marker toco shifting yeah that is real. It is worse sort of outgrowing our space right now and we're looking for another place to meet and coming up empty at the present moment absolutely good problem. It is a problem. We're going to try this again. Yeah no a man. What are we talking about today so i don't want to scare everybody away today. I think is going to be very beneficial but if you if you walk walk with us for at least fifteen minutes lettuce in let us set the platform a little bit you saying we're coming out of the gates hot. We're gonna come out of the gates a little hot hot hot dark but i would say with every around this table and <hes> for a lot of the listeners who walked with for a long time. You're going to appreciate this conversation. I think so too yeah yeah. Christianity in general is glorious movement of course started by our savior jesus christ but there's a confusion when it comes to this movement in a lot of it is <hes> what the you know the precious moments movement where everything seems clean and bright and and the status should be always moving up and forward and assumes white and pure and then those of us who are pastors astor's who then go behind the door and close it and people than say my life is not there <hes> <hes> many who listen and hopefully those of you who are new you will begin to identify with what we are trying to present which is a very very old concept of variable theology. This is nothing new. None of the pastors around this table are going to say you're not going to believe what we have discovered. That's right unless we have been reading old books and it's rediscovering today is more about just work with me as as we unfold tis but they is more about the dark side of christianity yeah the real side of christianity the dark side of the christian life yeah. This is one of those moments where if i was preaching a sermon i would it'd be like hey before the parking lot empties. Just hang with me for a minute and that's right. Yeah yeah is conversation will be like that may grease stains or real. They are in the <hes>. I would say this isn't because of experience. This is a pastor which is true. I grew up in a pastor's been a pastor for you know well over going over fifteen eighteen years and from my own personal life the christian life is not bright and it's not clean in. It's not pure the <hes> the hope is the final state is absolutely an christ is an absolutely in our joy which is released in that so today is more survived say a reality check. Let let let's if we're all willing for everyone. Who's listening to us in your car and your headphones washing decision. You know walking mown lawn <hes> if you were to say in evaluate your life you would say okay yes if we're going to be completely honest and in this isn't going to be broadcasted acid across social media. The christian life is very much an uphill climb that is muddy dirty and grimy and what do we do. I mean how do you evaluate that from the sense of all of these promises being cleanse be new in pub- <unk>. I think paul sets us up for this concept of. I hate what i do <hes> and the things that i wanna do i'm not doing them a wretched man that i am hall all stop there. No there's hope and yet there is reality so today's podcast is how do you narrow the two of those and then move forward and i mean before we even jump into the messy piece again. The hope is what allows us to stare the reality in the face and call it what it is yeah and so we're going to pull back the curtains of our lives and we're going to talk about it honestly right because of christ we actually can and have this conversation yeah. I think it's impossible and that's that's a very bold statement. I understand that but i think there's a strong word. I think it's almost impossible to move forward in truly experience rest until you are willing to admit the actual state of that iran could not more right yeah so i don't. I don't know if you guys have ever shared bad news somebody. I'm sure you have the idea of you wouldn't believe what just happened happened. I just want you to know right away that everybody's okay right but and then you go on to share about you know some tragic thing or whatever and and really that's what we're trying trying to talk about today. Is we want to we want to talk about the dark side of the christian life in the christian heart and the cushion experience the christian experience but most people don't wanna talk about no but we're doing it against the backdrop of the hope of the gospel where it's like the good news is here right everybody. You're okay okay. Everybody's okay did to go on analogy but but here's here's some tragic tragic reality yeah so i'm gonna do this but the risk of sounding shameless the tagline for our church come to church and asheville is imperfect people perfect savior and so what we're talking about right now is that reality that we are far from perfect and we're going to be talking about that and we can talk about it because we are all looking to and pointing one another dude the perfect one who is our righteousness who is the ground of our assurance and so now let's be real yeah yeah so in the conflict and this is where sure i would say in the pipe gas we try and ground ourselves yeah and reading through a confession for instance a lot of some of you that may be drawn onto the westminster confession around the table we we all are churches confessed the sixty nine about the confession and in those confessions your face with some hard realities he's your and the realities in that is that even though jesus crisis washed your sins. He's cleanse you. He has come to live within you. You have have been grafted into christ right. This is the glorious. The truth of the avar baptism were grafted into kreis. He has given us a new heart a new desire her and the new identity and then you wake up the next morning and say why am i still angry. What do i still feel like this right. Why am i still sad. Why am i mad. Why do i yell at my kid and so what happens is that lead you to great despair so we evaluate our life and say i should be this way. Hey and i'm not yeah something's either. I'm not saved more. Something's broken. That's right yeah right i. I don't know what your guys experiences but many many many years of my life. I woke up and went. I have to continue to fake because i am not like everybody else. I see a church them random broken because they show up as if everything is fine i show up and go nothing is fine. Everything is wrong right. I is that been your experience yeah. Absolutely i mean i would i would i mean i remember having conversations with people and thinking these things of meant the they're talking like abyss and they are. They're praying this way and they appear this way on the outside but something within me me feels very off center destroy like i'm i'm not i'm not feeling the way that they're feeling jim by what they're saying but what set but not by their actions that's right right and yeah so absolutely i mean i i definitely still to this day. You know when i see somebody and here's just a glimpse into the wickedness of my own heart. When i see somebody doing a pious act if you will my first thought is not to rejoice and that the spirit of god is moving within them. My first thought is why don't i do that man i. I should should and to use that word. You know you said it. I think justin you said it earlier. The should word the should word can be so dangerous in the christian life so there's there's a darkness i appreciate unlike luther and even cao vast who understand the darkness of the heart <hes> i've been around enough. I grew up in a pastor's soon. Wife grew up in a pasture so unfortunately we have seen <hes> men who are faithful woman who are not. We've seen we've seen a lot of pain and i remember the first time i read the confession chapter five point five. It made my heart feel so safe because i understood. There wasn't something wrong with me. There was something wrong with this world that christ would make right. Yeah me just read this real quick. I think it's helpful. The most wise righteous in gracious god does not often does oftentimes leave for a season his his own children. Please note he is speaking of rejecting reading of believers people who belong to who have been adopted by god yeah christians the spirit spirit lives within them yeah okay so we're talking about new creation people his own children to manifold temptations and the corruptions of their own hearts to chastise them for their former sins or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption and and deceitfulness of their own hearts that they may be humbled and raised to them a more close and constant dependence for or their support upon him i could not i exploded with joy to know that migration father at times exposes his to me the absolute frailty and seat fullness of my own flesh absolutely they'll show that i will turn desperation desparation say father without you i would be i would be i would be deserving right am deserving of hell right so those of you who stay awake up and say i don't deserve god's love. I'm like yes you're right. It's true and it's actually worse than you ever imagined. That's yeah that's right yeah. I fire is foggy at the moment. I believe john newton who said i'm a mystery unto myself a heap of inconsistency yeah because i don't know about you but i can go through particular weeks. You feel pretty good. You feel pretty like hey <hes> and i'm using the air quotes. My sin doesn't feel that bad and so you can get really confident in yourself and then all of us all it can change on a dime men that can change in a moment when up a distribution blinker. You're exactly yeah and it. Just we as people are so inconsistent. <hes> i've always loved the worst fickle. We are like the fickleness of the human heart gabar ever you know i i i was talking about this the other day with somebody where the language of it's okay got god knows your heart. Kevin was your heart. God knows your heart in that and my gap. That's what terrifies exactly. That's what terrifies me is. That god knows my heart because i just have a little glimpse of my heart and i can see the wickedness. Their god sees all the way to the bottom yet out and let's call your wife yeah there. You go get around. That's right. Well not only do we love to ground ourselves in the confessions. Obviously we love to ground ground ourselves in scripture ryan so talk about like you just alluded to jimmy. God sees down to the bottom. What does god say about our hearts. I mean i think about genesis chapter six where god saw that the thoughts in the inclinations of man's heart was only evil continually yeah that describes all of us the on a coffee cup right. That's not going to be slapped up on the refrigerator. Noah's life and there are no precious moments figurines with those now absolutely not jeremiah seventeen nine fine. The heart is desperately sick who can understand it. Yeah answer no-one right. It romans three nine to twenty. I mean i think it's quite familiar to many were paul cites psalms isaiah and just to make the point that there is no one who does good. There's no one who is righteous. No one who he seeks after god right no not even one like not even one paul no bro know anybody. James is talking to the believer rag and who's warning against against he's warning against satan who can come in and absolutely deceive you because you're that vulnerable you are that boehner near that year that easy to see found -solutely and then of course it's already been referenced wants today. Romans chapter seven galatian chapter five where we are told by the apostle paul that the internal war between the spirit our inner man hand in the flesh is real to where we find ourselves not doing the things we wanna do in doing the things that we don't want to do which is you already said john it leads him to screen out to cry out wretched man that i am who's gonna rescue me and thank you for jesus christ but i don we're three three pastors sitting around the table right now and as we spent time together recently i mean we're we're talking about things that we've seen in the church led to this this podcast exactly it led to this punks. We've talked about even our own our own hearts. I mean my goodness. One of the things that i think we're all very convicted about is never never just as pastors like less anybody ever misunderstand. I mean we do not have it altogether. You know there are many guys sadly in ministry that have built their ministry on a public persona of having an altogether strength. Yes drinks. Oh yeah like the pastor's. Marriage is always doing well right on the the. He's not having a a rough season if i ask him how he's doing like. He's he's supposed to be on top of the top of his game. He's not stunned. He's not struggling. He certainly not questioning anything think his affections are where they need to be clever. Yes i remember i remember watching. I think some sort of documentary on <hes> you know a large mega church pastor it was from a secular worldview you know they were they were fascinated by the success in rows of this church the size of this church and that's neither here nor there. That's not the point but the pastor was speaking to the reporter and one of the things that he said there is a haunts me to this day because he says i know that i'm not allowed to have an off day. Spiritually i remember watching that as a young pastor and that was crushing because i'm like why i had one yesterday yup for today roy and i know i'm going to have one next week. I know i've had because we all can buy into the lie. <hes> and this is true for the christian is true for the pastor that we should have it all together and we should be better by now. They're they're. I i can't tell you there have been a number of sunday mornings in the last several years as i've been the lead pastor of c._b._c. where my sin in my frailty realty like becomes incredibly apparent on sunday morning and on wrestling with my own strain and i'm wrestling wrestling with the wickedness and the corruption that still is in me and the enemy immediately just jumps all over me it's like how in the world are you fit to now. Go ruin preach. God's word shuttered god's people when you are such a train wreck. Yeah yeah yeah. I i think that the i've been preaching for a long time in a very different context and i would say in the last two years ago even maybe in the last five years in a church where we do take communion meaning every week as as we right there is there's a side of me that the only reason i can climb into the pulpit is knowing that the gospel the truth of the table is will be ministered to me at the so i come to the pulpit as a congregate knowing that at the the end we will be feasting on christ and trusting in that means and that isn't to say that i don't get into the pulpit prepared sir but there is never a moment that the more i look at christ in the more the gospel becomes a mere to my own life and a look into that mirror and i uh-huh so horrified by my sen that i come in and i look down on those who are sitting down in a chair. I look at them ago doing do we not the christ but like we we we we have calm in desperate need of what jesus can provide try all. We're excited to announce that we have a new free book available at our website called faith versus faithfulness a primer on rest and we the host put this together to explain the difference between emphasizing one's faith in christ versus emphasizing wants faithfulness to christ and how one leads to rest in how the other often to a lack of assurance and you can get this out theo cast dot org slash primer and if you've been encouraged by what you've been hearing the oh cast would ask could help partner with us. You can do that by joining our total access membership. That's our monthly membership that gives you access to all of our material that we've produced over the last four years or simply by donating to our ministry and you can do that by going to our website theo cast out of work. We hope that you enjoy the rest of the conversation guys. I think a lot of what we said. Most people are going to be able to recognize that relate to that. They see that they struggle with sin. They see the the wickedness of their own heart and in many respects some more some less but i guess i'm curious. How do you think the average christian. What are some ways that you think the average christian seeks to deal with this. This is tough if you're new to theo gas if this might be episode one you're going first of all. This is heavy. The guys relax and i agree. I mean if you if you just if you could go have lunch with us you would laugh <unk>. We have laughed so hard today and there's a side of it where we have because the three of us understand our reality. We don't take ourselves too. You can't take yourself too seriously. No you can't it's almost like when you're playing <hes> junk yard ball right. You're playing junker. Basketball and approach shows up. You're not gonna events. I mean we're going to just laugh and have a good time sometimes ever nineties orbi. It's absolutely well. You gotta give the people what they want. New intro music i like are intra music dictated <hes> yet no to your question jimmy. I i would say the hardest part of this whole conversation. Is you have what did mitt. You're not who you think you are me. You're not who you're presenting yourself to be. You know who you are. I'll take that back you know you are. You're just not who you present yourself to be hidden especially especially not on instagram or facebook and you've got to be willing to talk in public like you think in private but that's like what's what's the board ladder laundry. That's true. I mean we're not saying throw discretion and discernment out the window and just like relational throw up all over again. That's not what we're saying. Is it more posture than a conversation a posture than a conversation. I think so yeah. I think that's fair like i. I'm wanting to process that on the fly but i think that's a fair way to put it. Yeah you don't you don't jump into conversation. Hey i'm jimmy. What's your name. What's your were saying when you get a jump into that however <hes> i think a lot of times i i myself. I operate in almost this cognitive dissonance where i have this. I know who i am. I know what i'm presenting to you. I'm wondering what your perception of me as an particularly in in my wife may giggle at this if she there's to listen that when she's there and i'm meeting somebody it's always i know who i am. I know i'm presenting my wife really knows who i am right you know so there's this constant this <hes> and and i know that as christians a lot of times we try to mass that we try to cover hover that upshur or what we try to do is we try to discipline ourselves out of it yup and so what we say is okay i send in this way. I send the x. y. Z. today but tomorrow i'm going to do a._b._c. of the christian life and that's going to be a little bit of offset <hes> to kinda silence that inner voice sure you know the law working on me <hes> i recently walked into a movie theater with my children to watch a new marvel movie what fascinated me about the experience. I sat back for a moment because we got the early enough. Pass me. There's no one there posture australian themselves as somebody like. We're we're all there to receive new information john inexperience as recipients yeah so there was never i can the person next to me in front of me behind me. I never felt like i needed to do anything or to prove prove to them or to lobby right. We were there to all receive what we had paid for yeah but when you walk into the church that is not the case there is posturing. There is lobbying. There is presentation positioning you position yourself. Posturing is is acceptable and what the gospel does in as if you continue to listen to what the gospel does the law absolutely says. Stop doc posturing yeah because it crushes you. Were here to observe that you are on more things that's right. You're you're to observe that there is one who is perfect. There's one who whoa baid. There was one who is worthy and you were not that warranted yak. Go ask isaiah how posturing and isaiah six hundred this right but the coal. I'm ellipse close right. Whoa is me whoa is me now yeah and when when you when you truly sheer the law of god read over you and you you sip tips from it properly but that's right yeah you would never try to achieve a properly. No no no it'd be it'd be insane but but honestly we're not talking it again. This goes to my comment earlier. God knows your heart it exactly small. That's the problem. The law confronts that right that i do know your heart and i mean that's the sermon on the mount it. Is you know you have heard it said you know do not do not murder and almost everybody if not everybody listening to this podcast can say good. I didn't do that if you've ever been angry at anyone murder whether except to not that's reality and crisis doing is we're all saying in that moment is he is preaching and applying the law to the heart as it was always intended to be right preached and apply yeah yeah yeah. I think the weight that christians feel that is often. I think shifted removed. I think it needs to remain otherwise the gospel ospel visit. Make any sense when you walk in you go hi. I'm an epic failure yeah i can. I everything i think i should be. I obnoxious and i i want to say yes agree so am i. This is why jesus says that he is absolutely the only way the truth and the life no one can come to him except through what don't come to the fathering stuff through him exactly right yeah and i. I couldn't agree more about the law. The problem in many cases is that the law has been so relative is than dumbed down that we have deluded ourselves into thinking that we can keep it now and i agree agree that that i use of the law if we're talking about how it's been understood historically theologically that i use of the law which is to show us our sin and drive us to the savior from data needs to be heralded to the redeemed every single lord's day right so that we do feel the weight of the law and we do understand like yeah i got no shot like i am absolutely wrecked ruined and bankrupt before a holy god as i look at his requirements and as i assess my life thank god for jesus and then of course we can talk about how we live as believers third use of the wall yeah and i think a lotta times dick confusion about ah between the law and the gospel certainly but even that i in that third use it presents all kinds of bad things in the church in in the life of the christian i i think this is why <unk> congregate or friend come to you and say nabbing deuteronomy truff very rough. I don't understand blad in this segment that goes. Are you feeling. It's kind of difficult like yeah. There's so much right right and that's not even a fraction of what god requires the i would say that's entry level and they would go right to understand what god requires not what one human has come one step closer to it and then christ comes on the scene and it wasn't even a taught. It's like no. I obey the father. That's what i do. Yes the where we've gotten is to the place of. We're talking about the the the total depravity of man we're not talking about the utter depravity and this is important. This is very impairing port. That's an important distinction where the utter depravity of man would say you know which which is completely lawless anarchy were as bad as we could ever be. That's right. That's not what we're saying. That is not don't don't hear what we're not saying. What we're talking about total depravity depravity you know the the theological term nomadic effects of sin. It's woven throughout all of your soul all of your mind all of your person hood but again again to get to that question the idea of what do we do. How do we how have how christians today i think of just the the modern church seen today and we'll speak to the american church because that's where we are the ways that we've tried to com combat that and so- luther you know he talked about the idea of i went to the monastery. I'm i'm extremely paraphrasing here. I went to the monastir but that old rascal speaking of self came came with me yes right and so no protestant today is begging to go to the monastery but i think what we do is we. We build these kind of spiritual monasteries yeah and the way we do that. Is we try to spiritually discipline ourselves out ser and it's it's like it's not that we do that apart from christ but what i think happens is that christ is in the background. You know christ becomes the taskmaster of these disciplines. Do these tasks and you will have you know kind of the christian life that i designed you to have this glaciers. When paul says wait a minute. How did you begin by the spirit. Three right was it works of the flesh is no it it was bhai preaching of the gospel bring forth faith by the spirit yeah it's the work of the spirit and then later on in colossians. He says you're doing all of these works by the flesh rush to try and control the flesh and they're not working now. Listen to be to be to be fair and to be clear. We're not throwing out commonsense now. We're we're also not throwing out. Listen <hes> be wise yeah but it's very clear in paul end in christ that there are means by which god uses to grow and strengthen us meant to protect us. Unfortunately we have transitioned those as jimmy said into the disciplines if i am quiet if i do this if i eat this way sleep this way general this way read this way. They're probably a better christian. That's right and i even think to use the language of new creation. Yeah the oftentimes weeds think about being a new creation meaning that i'm doing all of that stuff like i'm a new creation therefore that means that my life looks like a._b._c._d. Progression progression. It's that continual upward trajectory of its ongoing improvement movement all of that kind of stuff it's linear. It's nice it's clean it's tidy because i'm a new creation in christ jesus and that is not the presentation of the new testament another disclaimer that i think we can make as we've talked about this. You know we're not excusing sin. Were not excusing ridiculous behavior in all of this and even with respect to pastors. We've talked about our hearts this you know as we sat around the table. There are such things as elder qualifications. We're not disputing any of the no not at all and every everyone around the mike the moment i feel like one of you are a myself disqualified. We should call it out. Absolutely don't don't misunderstand us in anything that we're saying and at the same time we're talking about the fact that human heart is desperately sick and that we as we just talked about total depravity every aspect of our person has been corrupted and tainted by sin yeah and i would add to that that we're not. We're not seeking to excuse in at all no no. Nobody's nobody's saying that but we are saying is but we're not surprised by it not at all no so when i have someone before me confessing something i mean i remember confessing sin to somebody and i just said i i feel like this is weird and that person just looked at me and just said wilson as weird it just kind of brought at that weight of lightness sure where yeah i mean we we. We were talking about does earlier on john's bordj when you go in the old testament um yeah. There's some weird stuff so about noah yeah. It's some rough reading the fathers abraham isaac and jacob yeah just go reader history right. You're gonna walk away with you're gonna drink water right right now people. You know that are like hey. I sold off my wife and i i just wanna be like father abraham abraham but it's like man i know many people in my church who have done better than abraham yeah when it comes to yeah their marriage in what i've never cheated on my wife to be clear a price i've never lied about my wife copy and never gonna call me the father of faith now which should be glory to god not abrahamian bro yeah i think there there's a side of it to go to be clear and in the past theo cast has been accused of being asked to noman. Wait what don don don the for those of you who know that word is being anti war against holiness reagan's the laws of god and i want i. I want to explain something to you. There's a difference between acknowledging the frailty of man. I will tell you this if tomorrow i could love my wife. Love god and love my neighbor with all my heart without fail. I promise you my life would be better if i didn't data that sounds amazing so please know that that is not a reality that i am trying to get out of. I do not want to hate eight my wife for hate my neighbor or god. I don't want to rent head. I don't want to run headlong into got a here's why because jesus is that much more beautiful than sin so this is where. I think if we're gonna wind the conversation down. This is where i think this is has to go in that it all comes down to motivation sir i in reality oftentimes fight the desire to to obey satan to obey my desire or to obey your flesh right which is ultimately myers lash right right the temptations to i'm gonna satisfy myself ingred in lust and fame in pride in the gospel and the church is designed to say no no no jesus is more beautiful more glorious more desirable and i would say you know we had this conversation between the the difference jimmy our joking about the developing opened a battle in a war the war will not be one until you die the battle it is a battle every single day you wake you will battle to say i'm either going to pursue the glory and trust in jesus in the midst of frailty right or i'm going to give in then i will warn you if you try and do that on your <music> own outside the church more than likely you're gonna fail apartment in the means that god has given i know i was having a conversation with with some people after church this past sunday and thinking about just some of the things that we've brought up the reality of of san and just how people have been burned by the church and and a lot of that has to do with things. We're talking about here and i i made the statement the lack of frailty a lack of a lack of honesty. You can't be frail lack of an understanding of the fallen human condition in the miseries associated with it yeah and this facade that everybody constructs and all the things things we talked about you can struggle with respectable sins sure yeah but all right so we were talking about these things in burma church we're talking about our church and our hopes for it and i i was making the statement that because of this this understanding of the human heart and the fallen human condition and always things that i am not surprised like you said just a moment ago jimmy. I'm not surprised when people come to me and confess sins even even some things that are pretty heinous. We've had multiple pastors publicly who who have been even recently yeah that's true and i mean we always pastors in our respective churches have dealt with things that are break breaking in but might right sincerely just because of this the logical framework in those moments when i'm sitting across the table from somebody and i can see them squirming in their seats they won't make eye contact with me me and they are convinced that what they are about to say to me is going to absolutely just like burn the village try in that moment. This kind of theological framework allows me to lean in to that person and say like brother sister on sorry like this. This is terrible. This is hard and soon as real and the i'm here we can talk like crisis. Derisiveness and instead of the line is long yeah exactly we say this all the time like you. You're you're talking about like. If you only knew how bad i am we say look with all due respect. Take a number and get in line. You're just like the rest of us and so we're not are posturing that moment is not to like recoil in push away from the table in horror if selene in and loves and come alongside and and have that honest conversation not excusing not excusing it at all. It's like an auto grope and honestly in in that moment that person does not need me or you guys to come in from the top turnbuckle and pilot on. They know it's terrible. They know it's wrong. Well guys obviously we're not done here. There's a lot more that we could say in this conversation and so we're going to do that now. We're going to move over to the members podcasts and so if if you're interested in participating conversation and listening in we would encourage you to go over to c._o. Cast dot org where you can look into becoming total access member where you'll be able bowl to partake of all the content that we have they're for our members and we look forward to seeing you over there. Thank you for listening to co cast. If you'd like to contact us or find out additional information about our membership you can do so c._o. Cast dot org.

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Simple Christianity

Theocast - Reformed Theology

50:19 min | 10 months ago

Simple Christianity

"Hi this is John and we WANNA kick off the new year talking about the simplicity of Christianity or simple Christianity. We have cluttered Christianity through all all kinds of lists and requirements. There's all kinds of movements in many people aren't quite sure what it is. They're supposed to be doing or not doing every week. They they show up to church and there's a new requirement. There's a new list there. Read a new book. Listen to a new podcast and what used to be simple when Jesus says come to me and I will give you arrest now seems complicated. Here are the different ways in which you must come to find rest Justin. I want to do our best to simplify this message. Create a new foundation nation. So that for the rest of this year you can truly know what it means to rest. And Jesus Christ we hope you'll enjoy simple Christianity Welcome to theo cast encouraging encouraging weary. Pilgrims to rest in price conversations about the Christian life from a reformed perspective. It is good to be back behind the microphone. And today eight we have two of US We have with us. Justin Purdue Pastor of Covenant Baptist Church in Chile Asheville North Carolina in myself. John MOFFAT. I'm I'm the pastor of grace reformed church in Spring Hill Tennessee. I got up to fifty one Saturday. So is that actually cold Nashville right now. It's in the thirties. It's it's not. It's actually a relatively mild morning so not terribly terribly bad today. I talked with the Jimmy yesterday. And he said it was a high of thirty five. They were really thanks. Yeah we. It's been a little chilly last year. It's been strange winter though it's been generally mild and I don't know if that's going to change January February March oftentimes. That's how it works if it's really mild up to now of Mars is often really hard so we'll see awesome. Well well I'm sure people don't WanNa talk about the weather. Probably noise me more than anything. Someone talked about the weather here. We Are you do do I mean you're the one who started it like right here. It's because I'm getting gray What happens when you get older? You got nothing to talk about about the weather. I'm getting more. Yeah Yeah we're So obviously this is our maybe. This is an obvious to the audience. But we'll go and say. This is our first recording of twenty twenty twenty. Were knocking knocking the rust off getting back in the saddle. We may or may not have had to try to Inter this like three times three times. Amer Mrs Jimmy. Jimmy will be back with us next week covering a really great topic. One of his ideas. And we'll talk about that a little bit but man. Twenty twenty is a big year. We've got with so many announcements. I wish I can make them all right now. But stay tuned If you don't if you don't follow us on email should go there in join us because we'll be making a lot of assessments there but we've got several books coming out one collaborative and then just working on one. Jimmy's work on one. I'm working on one. Some of them are some of them. Were Primers and we've got some good interviews coming out That that I'm excited about to we're going to be Spread it out a little bit. It'll be a different. We're GONNA bring on people that you may have never heard of her don't know about and we're GonNa Cross denominational lines We've we've had some Presbyterians we've had some Lutherans and Episcopalians and I guess it sounded brings Baptist just so you know they don't fill up now we don't want to fill left out. No not as you know we are. We are that big that the baptist. You know they probably do down. Oh my goodness we are equal opportunity. Though we want people to realize that that we in every way we could mean it were together for the Gospel. You know if if people gets it's it's not I mean I'm that's that's sincere and if people are all about the sufficiency of Christ and things Like Law Gospel Distinction incumbent theology and the rest. Were happy happy to talk with them about it. Yeah I mean people ask me all the time about kind of what is you know what what is the Oh cast because a lot of times podcast are connected to denomination or personal belief in fifteen seventeen would probably be one of those That would be similar lord of that. But we're we don't necessarily have we. Are we all hold one confession. But that doesn't mean that Theo cast is a baptist podcast. It was kind of described as recently and I was like It's interesting we actually have more people who become Presbyterian listening to our podcast. And they do. Baptists yeah I mean even though we all I guess you might call us. Reformed Baptists or particular baptists. Because of the confession that we hold too. I know that you John. On and Jimmy and myself we might all articulate a little bit differently like if we were describing our churches even we might say things a little bit but we all confessed the same confession but but yeah. We're we're happy to talk guys. Who are who are confessional Lutherans who are Westminster Confession guys and light in so Yes you'll find that out on the. Yeah it'd be good. It'd be really good. I know we were talking some you and Jimmy and myself. Recently about Theo Cass. Moving into the new year with our tagline has been and I trust will continue to be something like encouraging weary pilgrims to rest in Christ in that that is essentially what this Ministry he's about is pointing pointing saints who are often weary because life in a fallen world is hard pointing them to Jesus his sufficiency his work his merit in their place. Place and helping people find rest and peace and joy in Christ is what we're about so we hope that the conversations twenty twenty twenty have that kind of flavor about them. Yeah Yeah and all of our the books that we have coming out are you know I. It has been described. Theo cast kind of the gateway drug into reform theology. And we love sitting right there. That place If once you're in and you. Are you ready to go deep man we've got recommendations for you got books for you. Sure how but it's kind of like you've got to go to you. Got To go to High School before you go to college so you know where I guess. Maybe we're the school ministry. Let the listener understand. I'm not sure anyway today John. I'm going to go ahead and transition us into our our topic. If you're cool with that yeah stood so I don't know if people out there have had this experience. It has been mined at points in my Christian life looking back. Christianity energy is often made to sound and made to be very complicated and it is our conviction here at Theo cast as we the of understood scripture and as we look to the confessions and the like that the Christian life is not complicated but in fact it is very simple. We're GONNA clarify what we mean by that. When we say Christian life is simple? We don't mean that it isn't deep when we say that the Christian life is simple. That doesn't mean that it's easy easy. In fact it's impossible in our own strength and it's only by living by faith in the son of God and reliance upon the Holy Spirit in us that that we lived Christian lines but we won't have a conversation today about how things have gotten so complicated. How did we get here? Why is it so complicated? Why am I given? Even you know. Thirty nine hundred different things to do and think about and wrestle with and then maybe give some people some practical thoughts about what really does matter in the Christian life. Yeah no I think that's super helpful one of the things that you come into the new year with is that there's and we're GONNA win. We don't want to steal from next week we're going to. We're going to talk about the New Year next week but one of the. Yeah we will the logger Jimmy more about New Year's resolutions solutions and the yolks. We put ourselves under this time of year. Yeah Yeah I had the privilege having a long conversation with a student from Westminster theological seminary who is home he He goes to church in Nashville. And he's about to graduate and I think he's going to go get a second degree in in counseling and we were talking about just the the human the human nature and human problems and one of the things that that I have. After you know I've been in Pastoral Ministry now for almost twenty years one of the conclusions I've come to with my own struggles my own family. My neighbors my own city and my own country is life is really complicated. And when you when you think about involving a history and sin and you have struggle with death and you have struggled with identity. I mean there's so much that we as humans just don't remove any type of religion just as on a human level we struggle with so much and then you have you walk into a Christian church. You're already beat down by the culture because you aren't if you watch TV at all. Those people are all perfect and beautiful beautiful. They all have enough money and it seems like they're all happy which we know as a lie but it still feels that way and then our jobs aren't enough. We're not good enough. Parents were not good enough neighbors. Were were not you know everything about our life feels like is fifty percent or less and then we walk can do a church and it's just piled on on top of that sure right. Yeah and it's what what what should be a place of rest or even what's described as a hospital place of restoration you hear law and what what you the reason you hear. Law is okay. You haven't met this standard. You aren't accomplishing all the requirements. And so you come from a complicated life and you walk into even more complications of a religion which should be creating as we say rest and assurance it's but you walk out defeated and beat down because you do not feel like you can measure up and that's really what we want to be pulling back and saying maybe maybe we've missed the complete absence of the Gospel because the Gospel does not complicate Christianity. Yeah I think it is one of the most simplifying unifying messages. But somehow we've put so many layers onto the gospel that it's so complicated so cluttered word that people walk into Church and go. I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to be doing or there's so much I'm supposed to be doing. I don't think I can do at all sure. Like you said life in a fallen world life in this world is complicated. It's very complex. Is a lot of layers to human beings. And there's a lot of layers often to the the challenges Allen's is that we face The trials that we encounter in and the rest and yet the sadness when when you walk into the Church and you get on the one on the outside looking in as you observe people you get the Church's version of the the instagram life. You know the instagram family. Everything looks really good. And and and everything's Nice and tidy and neat and put together but then you yeah you start to wrestle with what the Church's teaching and it does just pile it on to use your words there. John John Paul's and on us like my gosh. My life is hard enough as it is and I'm already struggling with feelings and and haunting thoughts of my own inadequacy and all the ways that I'm not measuring up in every sphere of my wife and now I'm being given all of these things to do and all these standards to meet in the church and I just can't do it and the Gospel like you said is either confused or it's assumed and people are not pointed to someone who can in fact give them rest and so I know it's our our thought. We were talking a little bit for hit record that what makes Christianity simple. Is Its foundation in. Well who is that. I mean the foundation of Christianity is obviously Jesus Christ and the Gospel that bears his name. It's Christ's perfect life in the place of centers centers. That is countered to us by faith. It's Christ's atoning work the discounted to us by faith and it's his triumphant resurrection. That will be hours is one day. Because we're united to him. And so essentially the the Christian life is founded upon Jesus in his work in the place of the center and we trust that we trust him and we are reconciled south God every standard has been met for us and then we can have conversations about how we live. But it's never put upon us as though this is something that you must do in order to to be safe in order to know rest and origin of peace because Christ is secure that for you and whatever we move beyond that or leave that what. We're going to go all kinds of stray and put all kinds of burdens on people that that the Lord does not intend to be put upon them so to today. Hey one of the things we wanna do is bring some some simplicity to we would say the conversation and and and to do that. I think we can week. We have to. We have to look at the foundation of what the modern ornate Christian experiences built on and then you're look at scripture and ask ourselves okay. Are these two matching or is one pragmatism mm-hmm and it is one a self improvement model and the other one you know which words going to argue for which is a biblical model that creates creates rest and stability so jp and our talking beforehand that really this whole conversation about Christianity. Being simple is a foundation issue. So if you begin again on the foundation that okay sure if you're evangelical if you've grown up in a Christian church whether it's Baptist or Bible Church or just broadly evangelical local then you'll be fairly convinced that your salvation is based upon Faith alone in other words you know he's been pounded into your head. You're not saved by works. You're not saved by a combination of works. Works in Baptism or whatever it is and but the problem is that as soon as that's developed established which thoughts us that would say that you know. We establish that at the end of sermons you know whether it's an altar call or raise the hand talk to somebody or whatever it is but immediately after that your we call standing or you know you've got your ticket to heaven on good said the prayer. I walked the aisle I wrote with the car and whatever it is that you think it is that brought you into heaven or interrelationship ago. We've established that. I have a relationship with God and we'll use things like personal relationship with God which we will talk about. One day probably discipleship podcasts. That from that moment now we must maintain and develop that relationship with God and it sounds good language like you know it's The Gospel spoke. Gets you into the relationship and now it's time to develop that relationship and there's some truth to that. Of course. Paul talks about growing in our faith that we shouldn't be Babes apes longing for the meat of the word But it really what's happening is the there is if you go back to revivalism. which if if you've been listening to you for a while you kind of know what this is if you don't you know back in the basically the turn of the century in the eighteenth or middle of eighteenth century you have a fear of people coming to church and then living like the devil and so they're are basically saying okay? Listen if you're calling yourself a Christian you better start acting like a Christian and they started putting all of these rules in there. You can't go to bars. You can't drink dance you've gotta dress a certain way. You GotTa look a certain way if you don't then we're going to start questioning your Christianity. Well that's just transformed into all different kinds immune and maybe it's not right drinking and maybe it's not music today but it comes down to performance and as Jimmy likes to say the new soccer men or the new way in which we Have a promise from God that we can be developed into a better person is through Bible reading and so the foundation now is no longer Christ and him crucified. He is our representative. He is our replacement and we sit firmly on that foundation. Our Foundation now is what are you you're doing for Jesus now that you're in that's the foundation and that is not a simple foundation because as just ask you this question Who who has the right list of what Christians should be doing in order to be accepted before God in order for God to say look at you well done good and faithful servant? I'm happy with what you're doing. Who has the right list? I'M GONNA play the game if you look around at the Evangelical context. Everybody's got their own list so that that makes it really hard because it depends on which leader you're following which twitter accounts your favorite. You're going to be told a bunch of different things to do in terms of how to meet God odd standard. God's Word is very clear it's his holy law and you must keep all of it perfectly or you're done and so we're either trying to do that in merit God's favor over looking to the one who has done it for us and are thereby right with the Lord I don't know if that's the answer that you're looking for John. But as I it is it. Everybody's got their own lists and that's a problem. Yeah and I saw grownup jumped context. Where the lift? Yeah why just grubby in different contexts. Where the lists change and depending on sort of what I'm getting? Yeah absolutely so you know no one has the right list some. Nobody's there's yeah I mean the list will typically have bobble reading and prayer in a few things yeah right and then there is. There's just a complication of and then to be honest with you dot list. Even if like if I were to say to you Justin in order for you to be accepted by God. You need to read Your Bible. You have to ask an important question Russian. What is the question Sir? How much it's right fair? How much do I need like? How deeply my meditating detail on the Bible? How much am I calling? How much do I need to be memorizing their all kinds of things that we could ask in terms of what kind of Bible reading is adequate and nobody? Nobody can really answer that question for you either. The assumption is generally going to be while the more the better and that may maybe true. But the we're going to get into this more next week. This is how people end up with the best of intentions setting off on these these really rigorous like Bible reading plans or something and then literally in day ten. They've fallen off the wagon and are absolutely despondent by day. Seventeen and have given up by I January thirty first and I. I know that we'll get more later. But and by later in future podcasts less thus can be more actually and a little bit is good and so setting reasonable goals for yourself not joking yourself off the something that's GonNa Crush. You is wise and I was a lot I mean I would even I. Yeah the famous words I just I would go to Christ and I would say our ministry is really based on this when Jesus is talking to those who are beat down by the complications of religion. They are meet down by the law and he says come come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden any means all you who are just so tired of trying to obey. The law says Law Well and the system. Yep I will give you rest. Rest does not sound like. Here's a list of everything that you must do if and do do it faithfully and consistently if you want to rest the that doesn't sit down like Rustemi sure and I'm preaching through Mark Right now in John. I know that you've been in John's Gospel so we're both wrestling with these things. Weekly in our sermon. Preparation Jesus sets Sets himself over and against be religious system of his day that is absolutely based upon code affiliation. That's that's based upon a system of sacrifices and things to do and things to abstain from and he's dealing with people who are elite in their ability to live by a code but then he makes it clear over and over again that the whole thing is upside down the whole thing is backwards and that true. Real religion is not based upon those things but is in fact based upon a right understanding standing of God's law and what it requires and then that driving people to Jesus to Him who has accomplished everything that they need and they're in. We find rest because Christ bids like you just said he bids us to come to him. Come to me you know. And He provides righteousness he provides atonement. He provides redemption. He's done it. And he takes the yoke of the law off of his people and then we can live in relationship with the law in a way that isn't burdensome and so when you get that mixed up man it it causes all kinds of problems. And I think you're right if you're an evangelical if I can just talk about this for a moment if you're an evangelical I agree with what you said earlier that you've grown up with pounded into you that we're not saved by what we do but were saved by faith. It's an a lot of people. Praise God this is true can recite to you. I'm saved by grace through faith in Christ alone the which we say. Amen now let's be consistent and how we talk about the Christian life in light of that reality because what happens for so. Many people is that as as soon as that Wonderful Gospel messages proclaimed the rest of the exhortation and the teaching goes onto sometimes contradict that reality but at best west undermine it it undermines the assurance in the piece that we have with God in Christ. Jesus when we're told Yeah that's true you're saved by faith but now now if you're sincere in your faith you're going to be doing all these things and if you're really serious about Christ than your life is going to look this way and this way and this way and if you're not sincere enough enough and if you're not serious enough you should be afraid because you may very well be a carnal Christian or one of those people in Jesus is GonNa come back and and look at you and say you had depart from me. I never knew you. And this is how people wrestle and struggle mightily with assurance or lack thereof though. They've been in the church their whole lives and our sincerely meaning to trust Christ. And it's it's a sadness really. Yeah yeah to announce that we have a new free. E Book available at our website called faith versus faithfulness a primer on rest and we the host put this together to explain the difference between emphasizing. One's faith in Christ based versus emphasizing once faithfulness to Christ and how one leads to rest and how the other often to a lack of assurance and you can get this sad theo dot org slash primer. And if you've been encouraged by what you've been hearing. Theo cast would ask you to help partner with us. You can do that by joining our total access this membership. That's our monthly membership that gives you access to all of our material that we've produced over the last four years or simply by donating to our ministry and you can do that by going to our website. Theo cast out work. We hope that you enjoy the rest of the conversation. So one of the things as we have announced Instan- The gas is a reformed podcast. And what we mean by that is we look to the theology that was regained during the reformation and and what was really regained at the reformation was assurance in another way of saying that is the way in which God looks at you and determines his actions toward you is what we call a position so at birth your position before God yeah your position his attitude toward you in the way in which you stood before him was enemy and convicted as guilty. And on on your way to punishment and then of course which is the glorious. Simplicity of the Gospel is that Jesus came who was perfect. who was listen Lewis and he had to be perfect and Senlis and had to be human and stood in your place and then removed the position? He he moved you out of the position of guilty into innocent and then also didn't just move you from guilty to innocent. But had the position change of unrighteous to righteous. The Guy. Just doesn't say that you're innocent. He says you're innocent and righteous to have righteousness means that you've actually performed or can be considered to to be one that holy or has done righteous acts so and I think what Europe is. Go ahead John go no go ahead. I was just going to jump in on that part. I think that reality I think many people have gotten in their Evangelical Experience Have Gotten the Christ died for my sins peace. But then that that portion about Christ's fulfillment of the law. Perfectly is perfect life. His perfect record of obedience and holiness is his counted to me by faith in it is as though I actually did all of the things that Jesus did. That is an an insane insane like just mind blow reality that it demonstrates the scandal of the Gospel and the beauty of it. Not only is it. As though I've never sin were never had any corruption. It is as though I have actually done all the holy perfect obedient works that Jesus did their credited to my account and and so yeah it's like all of the all of the righteousness and the works that I would ever need have been credited to me and then yeah I will by God's spirit it walk in the good works that he is prepared for me to walk in but it it all flows from what Christ has already done for me. And that's rock solid man. It's it's unshakable. It's permanent anyway. Go for it. Yeah no so. Here's part of the foundational issue. Is the position Shen to get into the position where God says you're not only. Are you clinched what you're righteous meaning. I fully accept Chu. I have nothing against you. Yeah not only that. I mean at that. At that moment you're are described as being adopted. So you're his childless. It was is now. He's you're right So the question now is how do you continue in this position as saved saved adopted in Putrid. or You were wearing your now wearing the Jersey of Jesus like hey I have all you know. I've got Jesus wearing justness. You're wearing his roads this right so in in the Jesus is about to leave the earth in John Seventeen and he's talking publicly. He's praying rain to the father but in their presence so they can hear what he's saying and he says something that is absolutely profound and this is the foundation that he he sets up for his disciples. This is foundation restaurant here so in verse nine. He says John Seventeen nine drivers ten he says is all minor yours and all yours or mine. I am glorified in them. And I am no longer in the world but they are in the world and I'm coming to you. Holy Father keep them in your name which you have given me that. They may be one even as we are ones know Jesus and the father are one and there's nothing nothing that can separate that nothing right nothing in the universe or any universe that's out there and Jesus is saying that same unity he does not say to the disciples disciples do this to stay there. He says to the Father Father You keep them but he doesn't end. That's right while I was with you. I kept them in your name which you have given me. I have guarded them and not one of them has been lost except for the Center for destruction. which is he says was his prophesied by the scriptures? So he's asking king the father now through. It's the father's power and in this whole entire section Jesus is not speaking to potential believers. He speaking to men men he assumes are as believers juice gone. It's the eleven disciples and he's very clear at the beginning of the chapter. All throughout chapter. Sixteen that one. The only way you can enter in relationship with the father is through believing that he is the Messiah and faith alone and he's very we clear. He does not put a quantity or quality on the faith. He says belief. And it's very obvious that these men don't have a very strong on faith because they all in about a few hours or about him but he before the abandoned him before they all leave Jesus before they are. They are oppressed down by the circumstance of fear of death. Jesus make sure these men here listen. You'll he kept in this position as child by the father. Not by you because you're all about to abandon me especially you Peter. You're about to deny me not only once but you're going to do it later. Your Ministry again and Peter is never questioned. His position has always secure because he belongs to Jesus not because he had faith. You know we've talked about this. Just faith Jesus the one who saving him and Peter believes that it's not faded that saves him. It's Jesus that saves him and his faith is the evidence that Jesus as a saving him. When in Luke's account in Luke twenty two when Jesus is telling Peter that he's going to deny him he goes ahead and tells him and wind? You turn back strengthen your brothers so Christ is is very clear about that reality that Peter will turn back and that that God is the one who reigns over this will keep him in spite of his own weakness. I think Jesus if anything you mentioned the quantity of faith issue you. We've talked about this before on the Oh cast if anything. Jesus does not prescribe a high amount of faith that a massive quantity of faith. If it's necessary he talks about how if you have faith it's even like the grain of mustard seed. You can move mountains. But what's the point of at that. Any faith will do any any faith in Christ will do why because it is not about our faith even the quality the quantity strength sincerity picture descriptive right right. It's not about that. It's about Christ about the object of our faith and that can't be said enough. I'm sitting here listening to us. Talk John. This is kind of a pivot and it's it's interesting you know. We're talking about simple Christianity. And what have we been talking about now for twenty five minutes or so. We're we're just talking about the Gospel. Were talked about what Christ has accomplished accomplished. And that's no accident because it the Christian faith obviously is founded in grounded upon the Gospel and Christ in his work and everything else. But it's the only way and being really really doggedly clear on the Gospel all the time that we will ever get the Christian life right and this is why in our churches I know for you and for Jimmy and for me we are committed as much as we can be as imperfect Knin to herald and extol the graces of of Jesus Christ to our people every Sunday. Because that's what we need more than anything else right so you can't ever assume the gospel you can't can't ever move beyond the Gospel. We live under it all the time. And it's only in this heralding of Christ and pointing one another to him and looking to him. Entrusting him that the Christian life can ever be in fact simple where we are free really free and I know that for me gene and when people talk about freedom in Christ for the longest time I would think to myself. I have no idea what they're talking about. I have I have no idea what that means to be free because in my experience it's been anything but that it's it's been. Yeah I I've really. I know that Jesus is legit and I love him and I'm thankful for him in on the one hand I know that he's he's my righteousness in my savior and my redeemer. But there's all this other stuff and and and I'm very unconcerned and I'm stressed out and and I'm looking at all this stuff that I'm not doing well or well enough and I feel anything but free and I trust that's the experience of many of our listeners. And so maybe we can. We can pivot the conversation John. If you're you're cool with it too. Yeah let's talk about simple Christianity. And what what that looks like. Yeah I think you can't you. You'd legitimately cannot have this conversation if you do not have the correct foundation. 'cause you're not gonNA know what we're talking talking about so if if you are convinced and part part of the transition out of legalism out of fear out of the treadmill life of I just feel like I can't do it not to get out of that you have to establish a new foundation and that's a that's a positional foundation addition that okay if the good news of the Gospel is I have a right position before God based on faith alone and he will. We'll keep me and take me home. Not Ever based upon how faithful I have been or how much energy I put into Christianity. Because that that that's dangerous the moment you qualify that that's dangerous so complicated so the simplicity of Christianity is my relationship to God. is always secured by his love for me. We love because he first loved us by his choosing of me and the evidence is that this is real. If I can just say yob believe that even at a half a percent the evidence of that is I believe and it's An and you know we know there's a lot of people. Woo Hoo listen to us. And they say yeah but John Faith without works is dead and we do not disagree with that one hundred percent but I will tell you right now the emphasis of the New Testament. It's not on works now for someone. James and Paul will come after you if you are claiming to be Christ. I'm I'm sorry you becoming to be owned by Christ and yet you are unwilling to love someone. That's what they're coming after seat. Normally when Pierre Yeah but faith without works is dead. Faith without works is dead John on and I'll say okay. What you what you mean is morality? You mean a dualist faith without a dualist is dead. What the authors authors are saying faith that works as dead is that faith without reflecting the love of Christ? 'cause I John just flat out says if you say you love love now for your brother. You're not a believer her. Yeah so let's not even out onto what's not there yet. Even James is talking. I mean what what. What does the whole conversation flow out of for James? So much is the fact that there's favoritism being shown toward those who are rich and powerful in the church and those who are weak amongst them are being neglected that that is a a lot of what's going on in James in the rebuke agree from James is like you're not loving each other and yet you're claiming Christ and that's absolutely true in First John John is you've already said Paul is crystal clear and Jesus my goodness what what does he exhorted his followers to over and over again in his earthly ministry. It's without question. It's obviously trust me. But it's love each other. Lara each other is the command that Christ gives and so yeah. Yeah it's it's interesting like you said when people will raise. Yeah but we gotta be doing good works. It's like well On. We agree that works will be there but the work were that we should be concerned with above. All things is to love the brothers and love our sisters and if we're not then yeah we need to back the truck up and reconsider everything that we're doing. You know Jesus interesting. I've I've been completely flipped upside down by John and one of the things that has I just Bryn so tremendously helpful for me and dealing with A. I don't know about you but doesn't seem like two thousand. Nineteen in general worldwide. was more complicated complicated than two thousand eighteen. It just felt like a weird year like something universally was just wrong. Yeah and I honestly John Sort of feel like that all the time. Twenty nineteen reality but I disagree with you. Yeah probably because I moved in two thousand nineteen eighteen. It's an I changed the name of my church and moved. I mean there was so much that was going on but just in general in life it just felt like there was a lot more tragedy than than usual and in so preaching reaching through. John has been helpful. But here's here's here's how simple Christianity. Jesus makes he says this okay. You're you're you're you're clearly condemned and doomed and he goes to those who who understand that as like cheese is known to be a friend of those who have destroyed droid their lives. He gives them grace and mercy. They believe he calls many of them to be as disciples so some of the men that are there are tax collectors electors. And you know there's all kinds of fishermen are pretty rough guys and in this conversation with them. He gives them the greatest motivation in life. He says listen. You can have absolute complete joy which is my joy he literally says you can have my joy if in Hammett right John Fifteen he says if you keep my commandments that I'm about to give you. You will have the greatest joy in life the that you can have. And he says love one another and he gives an illustration of what kind of love he's talking about which says like I laid my life down for you. You just need to make your life about loving others and for me. You'd think Jimmy Birch any sorry Justin you give me a command in the New Testament that somehow is not connected to to loving someone else right. I mean you have patients kind eagerness. Yeah giving sacrifice they're all about an outflow and so sure from me that simplifies it. If if if I am to look at God's love for for me that's commandment number one right love God with all your Heart Selami commitment never to love your neighbor as yourself right. Does it get any more simple than that. Because Irish I'm flowing with grace from from God constantly I'm learning and living underneath this new position that I'm having and then the second thing I then do is say. Oh My oh my this is a wonderful for gift and Jesus says now give it away and if you do you'll exactly that's the key. I mean this is crazy to command command. That just seems like logic. Yeah couple of verses that are really good in thinking about this Romans. Five one having been justified side by faith. Paul says we now have peace with God through our Lord. Jesus Christ and it's very clear in the context with the things that he goes on to say that that piece is not something that's temporary it's not just here and now that this present justification piece reality secure peace with God forever and so that's massive and then I think about a Galatian to twenty where Paul says that He's been crucified with Christ right so he's he really has died to the law in Jesus the penalties been paid but then he says in the life that I live in the flesh I know now live by faith in the son of God. What a wonderful simple exhortation that is an scripture after that is i? I live by faith in the son of God now and so I am at peace with the Lord. I live by faith in Christ on free so that I had this conversation a lot. John I know you do. There are several a number of people in my congregation that that I've had this conversation with and There are a few guys in particular that are pretty tight with here that that I can remember when I can remember the moment I can remember where we were and and all that when when he looks at me and and says I did. I think I think I'm getting it. I think I'm really understanding what what crisis done and this is incredible and I realized like the piece that I have with God because of Jesus Jesus and it's it's fantastic and and I wanna learn more about what it is to be free and Jesus but seriously man if Jesus done everything what do I do. Now what do I do. I take great joy in looking at them and and I say to them. Well you'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA do a lot of the same things but for different reasons. I'll say that but then I just give him a few simple things like are well Here here the main things bro or sister. I was talking to a lady in our church. Trust Trust Christ so continued. Trust him. Love you brothers and sisters and honestly show up a church on Sunday this keep common and if you concern yourself with trust in Christ loving your brothers and sisters and just keep showing up. It's going to take care of itself by large. I'm not saying that there's nothing else to consider. Those are the main things. And it's incredible to watch people that take that council and implemented in their lives their joy increases their freedom increases and they just become incredibly fruitful in the church. And they're like you know they start telling people you know. Hey your primary ministry in the Church honestly is just to show up just show up and and love each other and it's amazing Bro. and I mean everybody wants but yeah there's all this and this and this is more complicated than that will sure there's more to say but my Lord if we if we talk in these terms man we set people free and the Christian life can be full of joy and we grow and we change and we love each each other and the church becomes a haven for centers and hearts are knitted together. Because we know we desperately need Christ and we move forward. You know it's it's fantastic as I've seen they are and local body. Yeah well I'll give. I'll give us one more verse before we run over into the numbers podcast You've got Hebrews twelve one and two so all of Hebrews you have the writer who's trying to convince you that the the person you should be focusing on he's who is greater than everything and everyone greater than greater than the prophets greater than Moses greater than the angels. Don't Jesus don't leave Jesus. And then he says awesome you know Hebrews twelve one and two is he he. He's the one who put you in this new position when he's the author and finisher of your faith right and the author says that you are to remove the weight and he clarifies. The difference was to in weight and send And he saying anything thing that keeps you from looking to Jesus or holes you down from going to Jesus. Yeah you need to get rid of it and for me. That is the complication of Evangelical Ism. We have put so much on us that we have to be doing this doing this. That this is the clutter. I'm talking about that. The the a person that we should be looking to the person that we should be excited about is the least focus of our day. Okay because we're focusing on how. I need to do this how I not need to be doing that. And the author says looking unto Jesus the author finisher of your faith the simplicity of the Christian life is Christ is our focused learning more about him not more about what we must do for him but what he has done for us. I'll just throw the southbound. I'll throw it back to you J. P. if you look at the Bible and this is an estimate and one of these days I'm GonNa get an accurate percentage but I think it's pretty close if you look at the the way. The Bible of structured you have primarily narrative almost through all the old testament even the old even the Old Testament. I I mean if you just put in the law in there. The that's probably five percent of the Old Testament some most of it's a narrative the narrative Jesus but yeah right. Yeah Yeah not even the wisdom writing which is only a small book in proverbs. That's compared to the rest. Okay we'll give it ten percent then you get got it. Yes yeah I'm with you. Then you get you get in the New Testament and the new testaments four gospels and majority of that's narrative which there is some great helpful instructions in there. They're the most of those instructions belief in Jesus or love one another and the or hazy greasing the law to drive people to himself. It's right then you get. Finally they get to the epistles which is a very small section of the Bible and the majority of the beginning of those epistles is Gospel and then the latter part I I would say fair enough off that instructions to the believer that apply to them in a church. Context is about five percent of scripture. The rest of it is pointing you to why you you should be obeying ninety. Five percent of the Bible is convincing you. Jesus is worthy to be trusted and rested in. Yeah and then obedience comes from that and so it makes complete sense when the author says. Hey get rid of the clutter and get rid of sin that kitchen your way of Jesus because Jesus is where you find rest and and Jesus were you find peace and hope nothing else can provide that yet so thinking about the letter Hebrews one one thought that popped into my mind as you were talking John in Hebrews Chapter Two when the author exhorts his readers lead us not neglect such a great salvation. What is he talking about? It's it's so funny. I think in our context. I'm not trying to be punchy. When I say this at all I think a lot of people would read that and assume that what is meant is do not neglect your spiritual disciplines? Do not neglect to do the right stuff do not neglect abstaining staining from the bad things In if you don't take those seriously enough you're gonNA end up lost. That's not at all what the writer to Hebrews is saying in that context in that context when he says let us not neglect such a great salvation. What he means is let us not neglect Christ and return to the law? That's his argument is. Don't go back to the law. Why would we ever go back to the law? Something that was merely a shadow and a pointer her so the one who would come and accomplished redemption. And so. It's amazing how we have voluntarily placed ourselves yourselves back under a Schema that really. We talked about this earlier. The the reformation was about the recovery of the Gospel in the recovery of assurance in Christ We have sort of made our way back towards a very medieval Roman understanding of cooperating with God and it it leads nowhere. I know where good and there's no peace in there's no simplicity in it because it's it's a very codified life that's right well we clearly are going to continue this this conversation on and we have what's called a members podcasts. And it's there that Justin and I are going to take off the theological filter and if you're the person that really wants to dive into this conversation and you like to read footnotes Then this is going to the conversation for you. We use big words. Yeah we're GONNA talk talk a little more history and really deconstruct this concept a little bit more so if you wanna be a part of that union a fourteen day free child over at Theo cast dot org in. There's more more information they're all of our old podcast. We have over two hundred podcasts. There there and all of our membership podcasts are there and we've got a free book and there's a lot there really it's A. It's a great way to not only interact with our material to support our ministry for the last two years. Theo cast would not be able to afford to continue without our members. So we want to thank you for participating in that if you want to know more about the website we have multiple books. There's three books available that you can get that Very Much A. We'll continue in the conversation that we have today. We look forward to having Jimmy back with us. New Pastor of Christ Community Church official pastor there with a welcome him next week so stay. Hey we'll see you next week.

John John Jesus Amer Mrs Jimmy Theo Cass John John Paul Justin Purdue Nashville Pierre Yeah US Christian church John MOFFAT Twenty twenty writer Spring Hill Tennessee Pastor of Christ Community Chu instagram John Faith Westminster theological semina Europe
Examine Revenue Streams

Don't Quit Your Day Job

14:03 min | 7 months ago

Examine Revenue Streams

"So let's look at revenue streams those who are trying to create your plan. Big like I said before on herbal life there are a lot of women that post their herbal life. fitness programs Drinking herbalife so forth. There's another revenue stream net. You can post to you create. It's called Patriots. How I found out Patriots is. I do a lot of mountain biking in this one guy that I looked at. He has a video when he posted a video on Patriot and he has a lot of patrons they go to his video and a ten fifteen twenty dollars they sign up and all they do is watch his mountain bike videos. He's going down the mountain and recording it and the guy makes like about eight thousand dollars a month and that's all they do is watch videos. And it's a good recording. He uses a good camera that's strapped to his either as Hell Minorities. Chaz so my question to you is. Why can't you do this so I know a lot of runners that go to races you could Put the video on in Record what you're doing when you're going up and down the trails or on a on a race or something like that and posted on Patriot and it'll probably be a lot of people that would sign up. You have different tiers one dollar three dollars five dollars if you do a course or anything like that. You could charge one hundred dollars. There are people that are making eighty thousand one hundred thousand dollars on page on so if you're doing a particular video say on Yo. God pulled up a Youtube Youtube. S- another one. I pulled up youtube and I put in Yoga. There's this one woman that gets nine hundred sixty seven thousand views in a year and all she does is record. Herve Yoga practices and She has other people on and you just watch her do the Yoga on her particular channel and she gets a lot of us and everything you'll see ads and that's how you to makes its money. They look at how many people look at your youtube. And they want you to have a thousand subscribers then They will put ads on air now. Those who have a lot of subscribers and also a lot of us actually creates the money they will pay that Youtube video person. A certain percentage of the ads that they place on that particular youtube video. So when you're watching one you see an ad come up and you can skip the ad that means that that particular person has a lot of us. So they're gonNA put a V Excuse me Adwan it so people can take a look at it so you have videos on Youtube Patriot on you. You can also do other revenue streams on your own with your podcast. There's a lot you can do so back to what I was talking about. A lot of people posed long your story on facebook and they posted all things you should collect those and create a video or you get paid for it. So if you're in your twenties and thirties now's the time to learn how to do videos for me. The video on is a big learning curve I'm not real good output. There's youtube videos a tell you how to do it so if you WANNA do that. It's really interesting. I think it's a unique format for revenue stream but a lot of people do facebook live now. Facebook live has added a lot of things to their format. Makes it a lot easier? What I use is stream yard where you can do a video on stream yard and and you can post it at the same time live on your group or page on facebook or youtube or linked in or. There's the one with twitter. Where you can use their periscope so stream yard makes it easy now for Youtube. You'd probably have to add it to put thumbnails on it and a different banners and so forth. I guess a little complicated but it's doable. So those that I see on facebook live. You should have several revenue platforms and that's Patriot on facebook. Live Youtube. You can do periscope so forth down what I also notice on to get started on. The stories is that you can go to Canada and create photos with information on it to get everybody interested in what you're doing so there's a lot of things that you can do with that now based on my stats here. I see. There is a lot of women listening to this podcast which is great and I see that a lot of women do posting where they create followers and they make some money but these other revenues formats or the way to go so. That's another way for playing. Were you can have something to fall back on. You can create these Videos any place you go so if you're out camping or whatever You can create a video. I was looking through Youtube and there was. This young lady was doing a video on how to get a cheap for trail running and all it was her look showing different products and Out there in the beautiful countryside and talking about trail running and she had thousands of years and she also has ads coming up on her youtube. So that's a pretty nifty way to get revenue for your plan B. There are a few other things that you can do. You can interview people You can do on a podcast. You can do it on stream yard quite a few things now. What I'm doing is I have a patriot. And it's Patriots Dot Com Slash Destination Training and I've basically advertise at so I can pick up people. It's like. The top tier is like about ten dollars per month and I do Online teaching and coaching. So I like the coaching factor. Where you can pull people in and then you can talk to say you know. I'm looking at such and such and then you can coach them on what you think they should do. So coaching is another avenue that you can do With your podcast with year facebook. Live with your youtube so in the next episode. We're going to take a look at a couple other formats that you can use. I'm going to dive into one particularly and We'll dissect it and we'll see how that particular format is a good one to look at seal later. Hello everyone is Dr Craig and this is my fifth episode trying to better job. Hopefully it's working out. Okay have to learn how to add it now looking forward to that editing. The podcast at a video can be somewhat complicated but I wanna I wanNA jump into his. I was on facebook today and Have a lot of followers on air and I was reading one particular post where a woman was talking about. How she her husband lost his job right now. That a lot of people that are not working because it is corona virus or having a tough time. And I've been there done that when I was younger. Even when I was in my forties and fifties. But she went on to talk about. How had her husband's back? So what did she mean by that corps? She loves her husband. No the woman personally and She talked about the fact that she supports it now. If I look at what she's doing she has a plan. B. That's very lucrative. And I'll tell you what she's doing she is into herbalife and I used the product. I when I cycled everything I use the CR seven and we also used a meal plan. And she's doing this with A Club in Spring Hill Florida and she does very well with it. She coaches and she Works with some other people. She actually works at one. Place called evolved nutrition. There's another one in Brooksville and it's the downtown loser and I've been in there and when you go in the blenders or wait a mile a minute. I mean they're making shakes. They're making T- they're doing this. And if you know anything about Herbalife is a you. Joy that you can buy the product just by itself or you can buy the product and become a distributor. So she happens to a distributor and she's also a fitness instructor so she does have a job during the week. In a lot of those women are in that facility vol nutrition have jobs during the day and they do this in between weekends six tonight at night and they're in there so I've been in the air and usually shaved his about five bucks which isn't too bad but you figure that you're drinking something that's very nutritious and the flavors are out of this world so this particular woman feel safe because she has something to fall back on. Actually your husband has something to fall back on. And that's what she has and there's a lot of women that do yoga. They do fitness Coaching quite a few things that I see on facebook. That women do. I don't see a lot of men doing herbalife. I like the product I use a lot. My wife uses her life for nutrition and also weight loss but I was touched by the fact that what she was saying is exactly what. I'm trying to convince everyone that you have to have a plan B. and I say that a lot playing be you have to have something to fall back on and most of the time. It's something that you're really have a passion for so the question is what is your cash as I mentioned before my passion is running cycling events and I do fairly well with the right now. Nothing's happening no one signing up. They've canceled all the events. It's tough but yoga and fitness is doing very well and you can actually do it online. I've seen a lot of Different programs that are presented on Youtube. But when I look back at the herbal life there are a lot of women in that particular Establishment in that area that go in get to particular shake and try and lose weight and the women worked together on it. Dic- any man a few and I think they were probably with their wives but they're really passionate about it and that's good because they're probably making a pretty good living with a part time job that's added to their full time job so something happens like this particular gentleman lost his job. His wife is in herbal life. So she's continuing until he finds another job. Let's say she wasn't married she'd have something to fall back on. And the fall back on is her passion because I know her personally and she loves it. The women go in and partake in herbalife. He's as they're buying it or they're binding or distributor. They have their own coaching. They love it and I've seen other women that do yoga massage on the side. All kinds of things. They're really living their passion and it's great so that's one particular area that a lot of women a few men used to supplement their income. There are weekly job and it works out very well.

Youtube facebook Patriots herbalife Chaz Canada twitter Dr Craig instructor Brooksville Spring Hill Florida eighty thousand one hundred th ten fifteen twenty dollars eight thousand dollars one hundred dollars three dollars five dollars ten dollars one dollar
More Than a Feeling?

Theocast - Reformed Theology

51:17 min | 8 months ago

More Than a Feeling?

"Hi this is John and today on Theo cast. We are going to be tackling emotions affections and feelings as relates to your assurance. Jesus Christ Very Prominent Evangelical recently said to define saving faith apart from feelings futile. That's a pretty strong statement and we're going to try and do our best to look at scripture history and the confessions and answer the question. Do we find assurance based upon our feelings or is our security in Christ more than we hope? You enjoy a simple way for you to help support. Theo cast and joined. The reformation is by shopping at Amazon. That's right everything that you purchase there. They will take a percentage of it and donate it to our ministry. All you have to do is go to smile. Amazon Dot Com and then search for Theo cast inc and choose us as the supporting donation to learn more about this and other ways of supporting us you can go to. Theo cast dot org slash. Give welcome to the O cast encouraging weary pilgrims to rest Christ conversations about the Christian life from a reform. The perspective today are hosts are Justin for new pastor of Covenant Baptist. Church and Jimmy Buehler's with us today. Believe it or not pastor of Christ church and Wilmer Minnesota and I am John Moffatt. Pastor of grace reformed church in Spring Hill. Tennessee gentlemen specifically Jimmy. It's good to be around the microphones today with all three of US makes conversations a little more lively especially when Jimmy comes in is hot as he is. Today I try. I try my best Dutch on my best keep things spicy. Yeah Jim Jim. We haven't heard from you in a while. So why don't you Which gives us an update. What's going on in the the state of Minnesota The state of Minnesota. So the classic thing to do in Minnesota. Is You talk about the weather. So just know that it still bone chillingly cold. And that's all that needs to be said. John has experienced that He's experienced Wilmer kohl-welles not even minus thirty. That's when you call the other day and told me it's thirty. I didn't experience that. Yeah that was that was cold but honestly the the big thing that's going on Just in our life kind of two fold so our church is is up enrolling and so which is good news and it's exciting news. We've got home fellowship. Groups that meets. We have a men's ministry that's meeting we've rolled out. You know systematically categorizing our kids and our families which is exciting And I've also re signed a contract. You come back to the school that I teach at by vocationally to come back next year. Which kind of just takes a little bit of that financial pressure off of us as a family It's not without? Its challenge as many who listened who perhaps are by vocational or who worship at a church. Where the passersby vocational? You're just less available for your people and for your family which is difficult so pray for us in that regard but it's also just financially speaking it just takes a lot of that load off So it's exciting. The the school has glad to have me back and might be rolling out a Christian theology course which you can guess what we're GonNa talk about all the time thought. Yeah things have been. Things have been good. added a couple of families to our midst and so awesome. We definitely still feel like we're in that very infants stage of finding our footing getting you know. Wording around our message You starting elder training all of those things so a little bit for me is I feel like I'm drinking from the church planting fire hydrant. And so oh yeah it's it. Yeah you just you don't thing it really is it really is and so my wife and I. We often feel like we're ships passing in the night so that that provides challenges as well but Yeah I knew it wasn't going to be easy. Yeah but there's yeah there's a lot of his righteousness in those. There's a lot of sweetness in the early years of church being planted and they're also really hard years at the same time and indeed. Yeah then there's a lot that could be said about that. And we may do podcasts. At some point on the first five years or something Because it's real gimme four more years. Yeah well and honestly like in the first. When you're when you're planting a church you do. Often you see the best in people Particularly your your core families. The way that a sacrifice and they give they serve But honestly being bi vocational which all of us I think have experienced what it does is it gives me a level Gives me a level of compassion that I did not have before fulltime ministry? Where when I ask somebody to do think did to to do something. Either to to preach in my stead to a plan. Some particular event or to facilitate a group like. I know what it's like to have that that pressure of a full forty to fifty hour week job plus a family and then trying to do ministry so I'm grateful for all the things that I'm learning. I just wish it would slow down a little bit but here we are when it also it does give you perspective is. You've already alluded to and it. It works on you in such a way that when things do begin to shift and you're able to give more of your time toward the Ministry of the Church you're just more grateful for it and I think it humbles you. It tempers you in even in terms of your expectations. So there's a lot of value in it that I think. In refining that happens in that by occasional season and I'm not saying that everybody needs to do vocational church planting. I mean that's not at all whenever you get sent out of good church and you're fully funded. Praise be to God but you know if you do find yourself in a BI vocational situation. The Lord will use it. Yeah I will say that. As Jimmy's experiencing there are a lot of emotional highs and emotional lows. Your emotions run rampant. When you're a church planner yeah well and user I mean let's just feel it all kinds of ways. Yeah you you. There are days where you feel really good and there are days. Yeah don't feel good at all and there are days. Those days are happening because I got a text from Jimmy and it's typically three worries and I was like. Oh No oh no. I do neither times. You don't feel like a very good pastors out. You're saying you don't view I there are there are there are times that. I don't feel very good and vice guy. Pa's GP. I'm ready guys. Let's see what is he said? We're popcorn at around all over the place. All right so it feel feel feel brothers and sisters listeners of the gas today. We're GONNA be talking about feelings feelings and faith. So what prompted us to have? This conversation is a video that was put up on social media in the last few weeks by together for the Gospel. It's a clip of John. Piper from twenty eight teams conference. And it's about a two minute clip of the message that a two minute clip up from the message that he gave in that that conference two years ago and he is making the argument that it is futile to try to define saving faith apart from feelings and many people on twitter in particular. That's the platform where I think the three of us are probably most active Many people on twitter in the reformed world in the confessional world grabbed hold of that that clip and were assessing it and talking about whether it was helpful or not and the three of US started texting each other pretty much immediately and I know we had conversations in my own home. My wife and I did. I know you guys probably did the same in in conversations even in my local church here in Nashville and I trust it at Grace Reformed and Christ community. You guys were doing the same thing and so i. I'm not going to bury the lead here. We don't want to do that. We are concerned that the things that John Piper articulates in that particular video clip undermine rest in Christ they undermine assurance and they they put a burden on centers that centers. Frankly just cannot bear. And that's the conversation we WANNA have. Today is about not that video. We want to have a much bigger conversation than that. One video clip. But we want to talk today about feelings and faith and how it is that that were saved ultimately but even how we would go about defining faith in Christ that produces in gives rest. So I kind of teeing it up that way John John Jim. Either one guys jumping. Yeah well we just had a recording. Today today's Wednesday afternoon a little bit different recording time for us so today means that the Oh cast came out with an episode of today's Radical faith when only about three or four weeks ahead and When when we decided to have this conversation the one thought that came to my mind was jumpers. Very clear on how someone is saved Sure there he will he. He fits into the. I would say the Evangelical historical and I would even say the calvinistic Faith as it relates to someone going from death to life. He holds to the utter depravity of the Human Heart. He holds to the absolute sovereignty of God and election and predestination. Were he holds. Too Limited atonement. So you understand that. It's specifically paid for that person's their sins imputation. So what's was hard is that he gets what I would say. Some of the core foundation issues correct. And then we're Theo. Cast is kind of found our home and where we feel most helpful to the conversations that are happening in the broader evangelical world is pulling the Clutter off of the Gospel that which causes weight and confusion and I would say John Piper is not preaching a Gospel here that is heretical and much of what he says in. That sermon is correct. But just because what someone's someone may say seventy five percent of something that is correct and that twenty five percent that they add at the end is so confusing and so deflecting and so Different than than the work foundation is that you often the the foundation then crumbles under the very weight that you have put on top of it and so I would say this whole idea of John Piper his. He's assuming on the front end. He's assuming a proper evangelical reformed doctrine of salvation. And then I would I would at least justification of justification yes. And then there's I think the radical Nisa Sola fee day. He's he's almost trying to explain it away. That's the easiest to give him credit for the brand man that he is and the Smart Compassionate generous men that he is. I think there's a side of him that he's trying to explain away the radical Of Sola Feta. So that's I would. I would start there and it's important to remember in this conversation to just for for those. That are listening. What we're not trying to do is as tear down brother and his ministry and the way that he has served Over the course of a few decades that is not at all what we're what we're trying to say at all as well as we we also want to keep in mind context and this is it's really difficult like I'm always a little fearful. I don't know if you feel this way. I'm always a little fearful like if an outsider listens to to something that I say in a sermon ask. It's almost. It's a little bit of that. You don't go to our church if you're an outsider. You don't you don't attend our church. You don't know the context of the things that are happening in the body. The things that That I'm aware of as a pastor that I need to kind of tailor my sermon towards and so on and so forth And so I think there's there's a little bit still in this evangelical world a something we'd like to say is that evangelical ISM is a Piat cystic movement. It's the water. We swim in. And it is the air we breathe. It is just everywhere. And and what I mean by that is in a pilot. Cystic world the focus so often becomes the interior of the Christian. What is happening in your feelings and your quote unquote affections. That was a Buzzword for for many many years. And there's Phyllis heightened yeah. There's this heightened sense of trying to weed out those who are perhaps faking it. Or who perhaps are you know of us are among us? They're not of US kind of thing and it's it's this overly acute desire to have a quote unquote pure church which. I think all of us want however often what what happens there is. It's kind of the wheat and the Tares parable where we see our the wheat and the weeds if you will. We see that there's weeds among the wheat. Which is clear and what we WANNA do as as an over zealous farmhand is we just WANNA start cutting it down and what is Jesus say in that parable? Well don't do that. You're going to don't do that. You'RE GONNA cut down the wheat as well as the weeds and so my fear and my concern is in a short clip like that. Not only is it ripped out of context so we need to be mindful of that but also when it was tweeted out it was tweeted out. An in sword of this authoritative. This is truth. You should listen sense. And so what? What happens Unfortunately is people will listen to that. And what does it point them ultimately? Well it's this navel-gazing interior focus that it's me me me me me. What do what do I feel? What do I feel because it wasn't where I don't hear is trying to vilify feelings at all but it? It was such this authoritative strong statement that saving faith without feelings or particular feelings. That particular set of Ewing's was futile. And so I don't know if you guys want to jump on that JP if you WANNA jump in discuss a little bit one of piggyback on a couple of things that you said that. I I do feel what you were saying about the fact that this is a two minute clip of a probably fifty to sixty minute message. The one thing that I would say about that in in trying to be reasonable eater is that the the video clip was tweeted out for the entire world to see and it it was. Brian moded as like. Hey here's here's why you should come to this conference you know even and you because you're going to hear things like this and like you even said Jimmy. There's kind of an a an authoritative tone you know in feel to the thing and and so we wouldn't be interacting with this at all. I mean at least district or video. Clip this idea of faith and feelings we want interact with of course but we wouldn't be talking about this particular video today. Were it not tweeted out for everybody to see? And so that's just that one observation. You know that that when you make things public ben and you're gonNA say things in such an authoritative fashion then for others to come in and evaluated biblically in the then. Even according to the rule of faith in the history of interpretation that's existed in the church for two thousand years is fair game and that's what we're trying to do today and yeah I would. I want to say a couple more things about pilots before we maybe move this conversation forward pipe system really in its its beginnings. It really essentially was an obsession with feelings and affections. It was a a hyper emphasis on feelings about Jesus and affections for Jesus and those things being the emphasis and in the center of attention. You know in in the Christian life and as we've said so many times in your deluded to Jimmy. You even talked about this with respect to this video. Where is the Christian pointed ultimately in this the Christian has pointed inward to examine his or her heart to examine his or her feelings and affections and the concern with that not that we should never examine ourselves and not that introspection is bad but when that becomes the emphasis? It's it's very concerning and I I. I'm I'm sure I'm going to quote some of this stuff later but I'm just immediately thinking about how my own feelings. And this is true for. Every body feelings vacillate by the moment and they ebb and flow like crazy. And this is why. God's people through history have always found great comfort in the fact that our our assurance and confidence in our security is found in God. Not Us it's found in the sufficiency of Christ and not not our sufficiency. It's found in the fact that though my emotions change all the time let Jehovah never does you know. And so. That's that's the thing that's hard here is that it. It seems to be undermining the the foundation of Christian confidence altogether. Yeah put out a tweet. Last week or two weeks ago that said every breath you take is riddled. It's filled with sand against your father which you know got a little bit of traction. Some people were struggling with that like well. How even when you're preaching was like absolutely even when you're praying yes it doesn't matter be here's where we struggle and this is where you know. Thank the Lord. Luther was able to bring some clarity here about the differences between us as a saint that which is inspired in our sorry filled by the spirit and that part of us that is still waiting for glorification. We don't live in glorified bodies so you because of your nature. You can't love God with all your heart soul and mind. You can't love your neighbor as yourself. You can't do that perfectly. Because within our nature we still have selfishness and we still have ambition. We Still Have Pride arrogancy and laziness so you know that right so the question which has always been you know the one thing we've always kinda thrown back to Some of the confusion I feel that that Piper Kinda clutter is this assurance area is how much emotions needs to be tilted. Is it a fifty fifty? Is that a sixty forty know. At what point do you say? Okay I can have assurance because my emotions defections meet this level and if you again and I also want to say where in scripture will you point me to that will create that watermark that. I have to hit her confession entered. Yeah I'M GONNA I'M GONNA point you to confessions. But and which is derivative of scripture. But I'm GonNa have a hard time looking at scripture saying I can find the watermark my emotions and my affections without finding sure yes we're excited to announce that we have a new free e book available at our website called faith versus faithfulness a primer on rest and we the host. Put this together to explain. The difference between emphasizing one's faith in Christ versus emphasizing ones faithfulness. To Christ and how one leads to rest in how the other often to a lack of assurance and you can get this at Theo. Cast DOT org slash primer? And if you've been encouraged by what you've been hearing the cast would ask you to help partner with us. You can do that by joining our total access membership. That's our monthly membership. That gives you access to all of our material that we've produced over the last four years or simply by donating to our ministry and you can do that by going to our website Dot Org. We hope that you enjoy the rest of the conversation. Yeah so that's really good. John I I remember when I was kind of coming up. In the young restless reform movement and one of the favourite versus to be thrown around was Jeremiah. Seventeen nine you know. The heart is deceitful above. All things desperately sick who can understand it where it was really in the context that I was in that verse was being lobbed at against kind of a more dare. I say charismatic. Feely based sort of faith And trying to bring people back to rich doctrinal truths and and yet. What was so ironic. Is that the young restless reform movement. Particularly that I was part of. We would quote this verse. You know we love Jeremiah. Seventeen and we loved. Romans nine as well The particularly Jeremiah. Seventeen we love to throw this in people's faces we love to throw this out and yet the way that we couldn't quote disciple people the way that we minister to people. We pointed them to the area that we told them to hate or to not trust. Weekly pointed them. We pointed the area that you're telling them is desperately sick. Yeah the area that were that were telling you is sick in need of healing in need of saving the words that were asking you to to look there for for some sort of comfort. You know so. Let me just share a an analogy? Yesterday I spent a good chunk of the afternoon after work in urgent care with my son he had. Kinda got a nice little stubbed toe and turns out. He kicked his nail in and it was all sorts of gross. All kinds of nasty down there and it would be like me telling my son to look at his toe which was all bruised and bloody and and just kinda gross and just say. Hey Buddy like see how healthy you are looking at that show like look at that. Oh isn't that isn't that just a wonderful sign of health and it'd be like Wool Dad. You're you're insane that he could. I mean he was limping. So bad and yet this is often what we do is in one hand and we talk about this all the time in one hand we will tell people how desperately sick they are and in need of a savior and then often the medicine that we give them is to go within. Go deep dive within your own soul and within your own heart and try to find some sort of comfort. Well the enemy loves that. He's like well great. This is my territory. You know I'd love for you to come to my camp And so I don't know if you guys WANNA speak to that a little bit more. Perhaps taken on different angle. So we've already alluded to the Saint Center. Reality that has been articulated by many people through history. Martin Luther is perhaps most noted for it the the phrase from the reformation similar Justice Pekka Tor at the same time saint and center at the same justified and and center that has all kinds of ramifications and implications for this conversation because I think every redeemed person through history would acknowledge that because I am I am born again right. I am a new creation in Christ yet at the same time. I'm still battling the corruption that I inherited from. Adam like those things are true of me and so in my inner man I mean. I'm thinking about Roman seven. Of course I'm thinking about Galicians. Five seventeen in my inner man. I delight in the Law of God. There's a feeling word like I delight. I Love God's Truth and I want to do all these good things so I think every Christian ever would say I want to love God with all my heart. So minded strength. I want to love my neighbor as myself. I want to be like filled with gratitude toward God love toward God affection toward God. I want to be humble before the Lord we keep saying I want to feel all of these things toward God. The problem is we battle the flesh and we yeah battle are inherent corruption and so to use the language of the Apostle Paul. We do not always do what we want to do. We do not always feel what we want to feel. The flesh waging war against our spirit keeps us from doing what we want to do is what glaciers five seventeen says explicitly and that's that reality is so critical for us to hold here That that intention with what? We're talking about with respect to affections because so if Piper for example were to say that any Christian wants to Genoa but yet we often struggle to. I would be like brother absolutely. I completely agree with you. The problem and I don't feel yet the is. We don't feel what we want to feel and we don't feel we should feel and so then the question is is we've already alluded to where in the world is our hope and our consonants in our assurance because if you're pointing me to my feelings the authenticity of them the realness of them the level of them. How much is enough? How could I ever know that? I'm feeling a sufficient amount of these things because again it's GonNa Change. It's going to be different tomorrow than it is today and I can't even explain that to you as to why that's the case because I wake up some days and I'm thinking I am just not feeling it like I even was yesterday and I think that's the normal experience for the believer. Yeah absolutely so if you if you look at the Apostle Paul and he writes to the Corinthian Church who historically speaking. All three of US would agree that they were very confused in their affections. They were no doubt they were running. They were running after the wrong gifts. They were running after the wrong sexual pleasures. They were running after money. I mean it was all things. They had misunderstood Christian freedom. They can't celebrating their celebrating. Sin All that. Yeah but yet. Paul does not write to them in such a way where he's trying to shake them in their assurance he actually uses the Gospel and says it's The Gospel that I wanna preach to you and then uses the love of God for them as the way to correct the issue is that. Listen God's affections towards you God's consistent emotional affection whatever you know we can get into the emotions of God and other time. But we'll say the factions of God towards you which are constant ever flowing and according to John Seventeen. It is the same affection that he has for the son. He says that he loves us the way that he has loved the Sun It is there. It is there that we as the believer find the true sense of our foundation. We're just re to Justinano. You have something here in a minute but I'm read to you the The LDC confessions exceeding nine. It's a eighteen point. Four and these confessions are important because we have when it comes down to. We were to take all of the reformed confessions and when it comes to Sheri- and when it comes to Proper understanding of justification. We're going to agree here and point four. It says this. True believers may in various ways have the assurance of their salvation. Shakin decreased or temporarily lost. This may happen because they neglect to preserve or fall into some specific. Send THAT WOUNDS. Their conscience and grieves the spirit. What they are making room for is the frailty of the believer. We are frail creatures. This is why we reference things like Galatian six because we as believers affections and our emotions can absolutely be captured by the temptations of sin and pulled away at a point to where faithful loving Christians have to come and rebuke us. Pull us out of the question so so we could say Mr Piper is correct in that if the spirit lives within you you will have these new found defections but they aren't a constant low that ever that has ever show unmovable. That's let's if he doesn't mean that then. Of course desiring God and some of his other books and his well-known sermons he kind of needs to create that that similar packet tour feeling in there. But it doesn't really feel. That's not the feeling I'm getting from a lot of the Muslim most of us material Jimmy. Uk If I jump in with a little bit of sixteen eighty nine while we're here in the end can four go ahead I've got. I've got a couple things after that but go ahead excellent. Yeah so I'm GonNa try to do this quickly. I'm reading portions of of two or three different paragraphs from chapter thirteen on sanctification in chapter. Fourteen on saving faith as they articulate it. So this is thirteen. Point two talking about sanctification and just pointing out the realities that we have been highlighting. This sankt vacation extends throughout the whole person. Though is never completed in this life some corruption remains in every part from this arises a continual and irreconcilable war with the desires of the flesh against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh. They go on in paragraph three to say in this war. The remaining corruption may greatly prevail for a time. That's that's huge that the the war of the flesh against fear. The flesh may prevail for time. Certainly that would mean that. Our affections are not right. They go on yet. Through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying spirit of Christ the regenerate part overcomes so the saints grow in Grace Perfecting Holiness in the fear or reverence of God they pursue a heavenly life in Gospel obedience to all the Commands of Christ is head and King has given his word but that acknowledgement that the flesh prevail for a season is critical. And then finally this the definition of saving faith chapter fourteen paragraph to this portion of it. These words are excellent. The principal acts of saving faith focused directly on Christ accepting receiving and resting upon him alone for justification sanctification and eternal life by virtue of the Covenant of Grace. So there you have that directly on Jesus. The words used are accepting receiving and resting on him alone in for every justification sanctification and Glorification Eternal Life All by virtue of the Covenant of Grace Not Works and so it's very helpful that that's that's defining faith biblically is looking outside of yourself completely to Jesus alone for everything that you could ever need in order to be finally saved. Jimmy Goldman. Well I mean I just want to speak a little bit from experience I remember severely battling through all of these things In College Being part of that specific context and I just remember asking the people who were kind of influential in my life and and this is nothing against them. They were very helpful for the season. That I was in and I do think that they love me that they care for me that they wanted what was best for me but I mean I just remember you know reviewing these conversations years later where I would ask. How can I know I mean how can I know that I am feeling the right things or that that I'm saved and the response that I typically would get as well? You know they respond to the question do you. Do you feel that you love God do you you feel this? Do you feel that will sometimes? And they say well. Then we'll just look. We're just looking for a pattern. Like is there a pattern right a general brain? I'm like whatever yeah is there. Is there a trajectory of onward and upward and my response to that was always how much how how much trajectory my exactly name is supposed to have? And finally it wasn't until you know one of the I remember one of my friends. He sent this to me of a few years back and I was like. We're has this been all my life and Shout out to our denomination only reform brothers and sisters that hold the three forms of unity but the Heidelberg catechism question sixty is so weighty and good and something that I return again some as where the question is this how are you righteous before God and the answer is only by true faith in Jesus Christ so that though my conscience accused me that I have grossly transgressed all the commandments of God and have kept none of them and am still inclined to all evil God without any merit of mine but only of Muir grace grants and imputes to me the Purdis Perfect Satisfaction Righteousness and holiness of Christ holding even so as if I had never committed any sin. Yes as if I had fully accomplished all the obedience which crisis accomplished for me inasmuch as I embrace such benefit with a believing heart again when I was asking these questions of how can I know how can I know would if I don't feel these things. I wish somebody would have just pointed me to that. Those truce exactly things that you can bank you and restaurant go ahead John. Yep One of my deacons I know he. He probably will listen to this. I can remember early on so. He's br very new believer and he kept hearing me talk about the glory of Jesus Christ in the wonder we're in the Fijians at the time. And just he he. He finally got up enough courage and said. Hey John I'm just I'm just going to be real with you man like when you say the Word Jesus. It does nothing for me. I don't know who he is. I don't know anything about it. I mean I believe I'm a Christian. I I believe like he died on the cross but the whole like I believe in God but this whole thing about you saying they looked at the sweetest joy of the kindness. None of that like I just like. It does nothing for me to which I could then say. Well then maybe you're not a Christian. I could have said because you are trying to have these affections for Jesus and what. I began to help them do understand that through time and through exposure of the Gospel. You're you're going to have won a knowledge base of trust which then in the midst of pain and suffering you will then understand. What does it mean to rest in this absolute foundational rock solid love of Christ for you and you know just going back to? I'm reading the tweet again. It says defines having faith apart from feelings Do are there people in History? Who have these emotional experiences where they go from? It could be a horrible lie for just be a massive Struggle with doubt to this overwhelming assurance. And they they're they just these feelings and affections come flowing out of them. Yes but I will tell you this and every guy around here is probably experienced. Those overflowing emotions points in their life. I every day doesn't feel like that to me. The other day did two weeks ago. Ju just remember when we did the podcast a couple of weeks ago and we were talking about how you had read. Jeremiah and I had read this about last week and there was like this emotional high. I had But I don't live there matter of fact most of the time I don't live there a most of the time I struggled to to to find my hope in Christ because my emotions are elsewhere. Yeah so the good news is the fact that we are saved by. Jesus not our feelings about him. I think we can all agree that that's a good agreed and the reality is resolved. Say Yeah the the reality like John just depicted and I alluded to this earlier and Jimmy. I know you agree is that there are seasons there are there are moments there days hours and seasons of our lives where we do kind of have those waves of joy just washing over our hearts and souls where where were joyful. We're satisfied we're thrilled. Were moved and in those moments are fantastic and I know that we all wish we had more of them but then for every one of those moments we probably have several where those waves are just not washing over are sold at the tide has gone out and it's like I don't I don't know where my my feelings for the Lord our today but I can't I can't find them in those moments often unprompted like brothers are to pray and ask the Lord to to work and move in my heart and the rest but I want to be fair to John Piper. I mean he did write a book called win. I don't desire God but he had to write that book. He seriously though he had to write that book because of the things he had written and said in so many other situations because he he paints a picture of the only way that that. You're legitimate is if YOU TRESOR. Jesus above all things which humbly. I would say bro if I want to treasure Christ above all things. If you're if you're saying you want to try to Christ above all things okay. But if you're saying that the only way you're a legitimate. Christian is if you treasure Jesus above all things like well I guess I'm going to hell and everybody else that I know is to. And so you have. He's put himself in a position where he has to clarify what he means. And it's like look I'd I don't desire God with all my heart all the time and so I'm not saying what it seems like I'm saying and I could say more about that but John. Piper does not mean that you always feel perfectly about God but what we're asking impressing for is clarity and precision of language so that you don't gangs and I know I know on on Youtube you're going to get comments and on facebook and people are going to come to his defaced. And say you're not you're not listening saying and and all I have to say is that Theo cast is not the only one making this observation. This is been criticisms of Jonathan Edwards. This has been a criticism of John Piper for many many years that I'll tell you this right now to this day my I credit John Piper for the for this amazing joy I have in the sovereignty of God. I mean the way it is when I was when I was coming out of the Armenian pit. He just created so much affection and desire and I just loved a loved his passion and his patients and his kindness. And so. Please don't think that this is Piper bashing moment but I will sail back to scripture. Yeah Yeah let's all let's go to scripture and just say hey on on on a broad level in predatory songs that are in there even the songs of struggle and I mean just go read Som- like Psalm Psalm. Five or even even David when he writes Psalm fifty one. There's a there. David want for a very long period of time. I mean you have to think about it. It wasn't a twenty four hour period from the narrative that David went from The the desire to killing the husband too. I mean it was there is Sean. I mean even to the point where the Prophet Nathan finally had to come up and say dude okay. Apparently you aren't seeing what you're doing so I'm going to have to tell you. And what does God say after that? What does God's about David? He's still a man after his own heart. Meaning that David. David didn't somehow prove himself to be an unbeliever. So there's just a side where what I think ends up happening is And we have this where people look at the failures of their life and instead of looking to something outside of themselves and repenting to it. I believe a lot of people here this kind of message from Piper because I know this for a fact because we get emails and phone calls and facebook about this that it causes people to stay longer incen- and longer in in not pursuing Restoration and longer in doubt because they don't feel like it's achievable like it's. It's an run achievable goals. Exactly right. It's unattainable well and and I would. I would add to that. There is no better way to avoid loving your neighbor. Then spending all of your time in your closet trying to sort out your own emotions let me just to be really. Honest is that and that is one of my big complaints I maybe complaints is the wrong word. But you know one of my big assessments of that whole feelings based movement if you will the hedonistic movement is is essentially. It has over grossly. I think become an individual individualization and privatization of the Christian life where it is an intense focus on the individual and his her feelings rat rat his or her enjoy. Yeah exactly right rather than you know rejoicing and resting in the objective truths and I think something we can per perhaps talk about in the in the members podcasts is. We're not even considering the fact that man. I just know people. They're just not emotional. They are non emotive people or they perhaps have some sort of condition hormonally physically mentally. That just does not allow them to feel things that dare. I say average normal people feel and so what are you. What are we supposed to do with that email? Sure so well we could talk a good example to that Jimmy that one of the former host Ryan Haskins of known him for eight plus years now and he's like out enough. I've ever seen him cry or like show any other emotion than just kind of what we call Ryan and so you know right. I'd be like I'm like well. Maybe Ryan's not save their go. Ryan listen and south to two thoughts. Two thoughts real quick Yeah and then. I'M GONNA have to quit. My Boy Horatio bonar before we do go over to the on the members gotta do it. I'll do that. I'll do that at some point minute. So two thoughts here from me. They're not exactly related but they were prompted by things. You guys were saying Jimmy. You were talking about how Christian hedonism in being in your prayer closet obsessing over your feelings. Really Hinders love of neighbor. I I'M GONNA make a more broad statement about patriotism. I think pilots this. This hyper focus on our affections or our obedience our performance and the the unachievable standard that sets for the Christian. That kind of thing pilot kills honesty in the church in relationship. Like we're told to confess in to one another well James. Five sixteen is going to be destroyed by Potiskum. Because nobody's GonNa tell the truth about themselves because it's like if I did. What would people think for so pie? Tim Kills Honesty in the church. And I would say it's interesting that Pyatt cystic contexts or obsessed with sanctification and pieters hinder sanctification. Because it is all about me. I'm less likely to confess in the my brothers and sisters. I'm less likely to lean into the church and the fellowship of the saints the way God designs. I'm not I'm not calling it like it is. I'm painting a false picture of my own reality and so are real true. Sanctification is hindered by that nonsense and the other thought that I wanted to say. I'll kick it over to you. John Piper's line you know. Famous tagline is God is most glorified in us when we're most satisfied him. I I might WanNa rephrase that somewhat and say that I'm not gonNA say most glorify because I'm not gonNA. I'm not going to presume on that piece I will say this. God is tremendously glorified when we are most mindful of our need of him in particular when we are most mindful and aware of our need of Jesus so if we want to glorify God one of the ways that we can do that in our daily lives and certainly when we gather as churches is to confess together the fact that we are send sick wretches. Who are absolutely desperate for. Christ and his work in our place and I am confident based on scripture that God is very glorified in that confession and I would wager to say that he is more glorified in that. Then he is us being satisfied. You know in in our relationship with him. Yeah I mean the the confession of sin in the evening corporate confession of Sandwich. Paul says confess your sins to one another which I guarantee you. I grew up in a church context where that only happen. When you're in like intense counseling moments in your confessing it to the shafter to help. But we do this as a congregation. I know you guys do that. We corporately confess before our neighbors to each other. The absolute need of forgiveness in in in doing that. What it does is it constantly and prayers also a moment of dependence. Because you're opening your heart and your mind and your soul to request to request something But I will say for those of you if you're new to Theo cast. If you haven't downloaded faith versus faithfulness a primer on rest. This is I would say you know. I think it's like ten thousand twelve thousand words that this is what we're trying to get at so if you don't wrote him and Mrs Wyatt was written and Jimmy did an excellent job at the very slow in the middle section. Justin does a great job of explaining the difference between a pie. Tissot context or church and a reformed. Or We'd say a restful confessional perspective And then at the end Jimmy does a really good job of kind of pulling the clutter off of the Gospel to saying. Listen this if you want to know what brings you rest this. Is it so just go? Read that last section. Encourage you to do that and then just in our Jimmy. Sorry Justin you actually Or answering a question. I think we should jump into the members. Podcasts and do we actually have a facebook group? That's growing before to go over to type in Theo. Cast and you'll see the facebook group we Once in a while jumping there and let you know what we're recording and so we did today and we received like five six questions. One of those was okay in light of this tweet by Piper. What's your overall thoughts on the whole kind of premise of Piper's ministry? So we'll talk about that And some of the other questions that we received So if you WANNA join over there you can can I throw? Can I throw a bonar quote out there from one of his him really quick? Yeah absolutely once close that I probably side about one. Out of every ten episodes. But I'm just GonNa for the people that are new. WanNa side it so horrendous bonar Scottish minister in the eighteen. Hundreds is more famous for his hymns in his tournaments and the guy is absolutely spot on about basically the reality of the severity of Jesus and the safety that we have in him. He's got a book called God's way of Peace Book for the anxious that I would come in to everybody but in his him called. I hear the words of Love the last two verses go this way and they're very short my love is ofttimes low my joy still ebbs and flows but peace with him remains the same. No Change Jehovah knows then the last verse goes I change. He changes not the Christ can never die his love not mind. The Resting Place is truth. Not Mind the tie. And that's an old him. The tune is at I mean. It's a reasonably sweet tune but it is not like some contemporary like jam session. Him and that song is one of the most beloved songs at Covenant Baptist Church because it. It's so good in pointing the saints outside of themselves to God in Christ and knowing that we're safe and it has acknowledged that our feelings will falter but the God has us. It's just very sweet all right well. That's a great way to end it. So for those of you got our new you can go to our. Theo cost at work right at the top. It'll say free book you can grab that and then also if you want to fourteen trial. Listen to our next conversation which we are going to continue. You can do that by our membership of those of you. That have been supporting us. Thank you so much. We're excited about the future. Stay tuned we've got a lot of big announcements going away. We'll see an opt.

Jimmy John Piper John John Jim Theo US facebook Jeremiah Justin Christ church David Minnesota Martin Luther Paul Amazon Theo cast inc twitter Jim Jim Jesus Spring Hill O
Christ-Centered Preaching

Theocast - Reformed Theology

49:39 min | 6 months ago

Christ-Centered Preaching

"This is John and today on Theo cast to we are discussing. Christ centered preaching. What is it and what it is not and how you have to have an appropriate understanding of the entire Bible before you ever want to try and attempt to preach Christ from all of scripture and how we can easily slip into preaching moralism while we're trying to preach Christ from the text and in our members podcast. We have a fun conversation around. How can you preach Christ and yet sound angry at the same time? We hope you enjoy the conversation. Hey guys as a quick reminder if you'd like to join the cast and helping other people find rest in Christ a simple way of doing that is simply by leaving US review on I tunes or your favorite podcast APP. You can also leave reviews on all of our books. They're available at Amazon Dot Com. And if you haven't started following us on twitter instagram or facebook yet. That's a great way to take our content and then share it with your friends and family to learn more about how to support the casts simply visit the Oh cast dot org slash give welcome to theo cast encouraging weary pilgrims to rest and Christ conversations the Christian life from a reformed perspective our hosts today are Justin Purdue Pastor of Covenant Napster's Church in Asheville North Carolina. Jimmy Bueller Pastor of Christ church in Wilmer Minnesota and I'm John Moffatt. Pastor of grace reformed church in Spring Hill Tennessee. It is good to be on the podcast with gentlemen today Jimmy Euler. How are you my friend? You have the update this week. We're doing well good to see you both yesterday here. In Minnesota we had our first day. That hit seventy and is A. That is a big day. I mean people were I mean right now even with like all of the the cove nineteen shelter in place. Things like that people are getting stir crazy so people are going outside regardless yesterday people were out in full force. So anyway yeah. We're still in the. We're not sure where it will be when this podcast comes out but we are still under the shelter in place a work from home. You know school from home all of those things and it's kind of an interesting time and I know you guys would say this is well. It's an interesting time to be a pastor because I personally feel like I walk this fine line of do I overwhelm people by trying to reach out too much or do I- underwhelmed them. So it's it's it's pretty interesting. Say to say the least. I'm sure you guys feel the same in a lot of ways. Oh Yeah for sure I got. I got a text from you yesterday saying that you were going to give a gift to all of your church members and looked at Judith and I said well there's one benefit of having a small church right there. Yeah do that pretty easy pretty easy. It's really strange times as a pastor. Were all in uncharted waters. So yeah and I just feel mega inefficient. I don't feel like I feel like I work a ton of hours and don't get a lot of obvious stuff done tuck field here so yeah. It's a weird time for sure. Well it just feels like. There's a lot of contemplation on decision making so you've got loan decision making livestream decision making financial. And you just feel like you're just researching constantly and then you never feel secure about anything because it's not a theological decision. It's like A. It's not even an ethical decision. It's is this going to be even helpful. Or is this a waste at strategic geranium calls and all that? Yeah Yeah IT'S A. It's a weird unusual kind of exhausting. Yeah so yeah exactly. What anyways for any passers that are out there? I had we had one reach out to us last night. That her this on the packets. But if there's any passers out there that are just kind of drowning. We've got a group of men that'd be more than happy to encourage you on facebook. If you're there we do we do a zoom call once in a while also to reach out and send us a message. Jp Why don't you Once you bring a in Man. What are we talking about today? I just mentioned being exhausted. I think we're GONNA be talking about something today that that can exhaust people in the church if if not handled appropriately We're going to be talking today about. Christ centered preaching. We get questions. A lot of comments here at. Theo cast about the gospel itself. And we did a podcast a few weeks ago called preaching about the Gospel where we made the observation. That many many guys many preachers will. We'll get up at conferences or even in their pulpits and and be very fired up about preaching the Gospel. But then really don't preach Christ and don't hold Christ out to people and today were were doing something that's different it's related but it's different. There's a there's a lot of language not only about the Gospel in in the Church today. But there's a lot of language and a lot of writing a lot of speaking done on. Christ centered preaching and. We want to try to bring some clarity some light to this conversation and talk about what Christ centered. Preaching is talk about what Christ preaching is not and. We hope this conversation not only is is clarifying for some. But we hope it's really encouraging and helps people diagnosis and assess the preaching that. Maybe they're sitting under the preaching that they're listening to on their their podcast feeds or whatever it may be and I know it's our conviction that that many guys who will wax eloquent about Christ centered preaching may not be doing it and then the know in our camp I mean the cast being confessional reformed place where we aim to preach the law and the Gospel and all those kinds of things. Sometimes the the representation of us is a little bit reduction. This stick in terms of how we go about trying to preach Jesus and I think we WANNA to shed some clarity on that too and so we're GonNa talk about a number of things today. We're going to try to define some terms for people and and hope hope this is encouraging and helpful to folks. Yeah there's There's really were. This is a hermit when we talk about when you get up and preach a sermon you open your Bible. What are you trying to accomplish? What are you leading people to The the phrase expository preaching is often thrown around and we have we have some very dominant voices in the world for the last fifty years have kind of defined expository preaching. The word. Expository is just a fancy word for explained. That's what it means. It means to explain or the text and their question is. There's a debate on what is explaining the taxed when I was in seminary I was taught to look at the immediate context. So let's say you're preaching. I John Worse you chapter one verse one through five. That's your that's your con- that's what. You're preaching right five verses. Well then you have to look at your immediate context and then you look at the broader context of the book and then you look at the broader context of the New Testament. And that's about as far as you would get you. You really wouldn't go any farther than that and what we're saying is that the Bible in itself is an entire context. It's not just one book or one period of Christianity but there's an entire. There's an entire section of scripture when you grab as an example when you grab Lord of the Rings and you read a particular book out of out of this out of the saga you understand. There's a whole world that functions there in when you understand the story you have to understand everything that Tolkien as saying from beginning to end within this world who created will that I think goes for the same as when it comes to preaching the context of a taxed and when someone says they preached christ-centered mentioning Christ or talking about Christ giving facts about Christ is not necessarily Christ centered preaching so when we say We are preaching Christ from reform perspective. The most important part that has changed this and brought clarity for me is when we talk about the context of a passage. It is the redemptive historical understanding of scripture. So you have to back out and ask. What is the context of the Bible? What is the Bible about? And if you can answer that question you'll be able to understand. Inappropriately preach Christ centered preaching so for guys. Maybe we should take a seconds here and talk about when we say redemptive historic. What do we mean so? Redemption meaning that the Bible is about the redemption of creation really from the beginning of the fall to revelation got us not redeeming centers. But it was your deeming all things. It's the restoration of all things historic meaning that when we interpret scripture. We do it with a Lens. From beginning to end genesis revelation understanding that the purpose of the Bible is redemption and it unfolds through history so we follow it in a historic row bashing so. What are your thoughts on that now? I I think that's really really helpful. John it one of the things that's important to keep in mind as whenever walking through a and certainly we wanna be careful and very affirming of those who who do try to seek to preach the Bible in its context. Don't a say that that is a that is a bad thing in certainly is a it is certainly a good thing when you are reading through a rather difficult letter like first rinse or even. Second Corinthians for that matter to to try to understand the original context in which it was written but what we are saying is while it is great to understand cultural context and that brings new meaning and New Light Even great to understand linguistic contacts and that brings new meaning in New Light ultimately what we are pointing to is the great end of understanding. How this particular passage or this particular book or this particular even topic within scripture scripture fits within the greater drama of redemption meaning it. It's not that we're we'RE TURNING OVER EVERY ROCK. And we're trying to find you know like silly allusions to to the Gospel so to speak but BA rather we are placing the book within the greater context of of how the Gospel has been unfolded throughout history. Yeah the way that offering it in our church often and I think our people are almost catechised with this at this point out. The Bible is about God's Plan of Redemption Accomplished through Christ and we preach we preach and we understand every passage of scripture in light of that main point and one way. This could be illustrated. Is I imagine that you were a book about. I don't know take Vince. Lombardi's Green Bay packers or something back in the day to make a sports reference and and were reading about this great dynasty and all the championships they won and and everything else. And that's the main point of the book. Your reading is about the Green Bay packers dynasty and may be Vince. Lombardi's a coach. And all this stuff and then within that that book that you're reading there might be an anecdote about how a player was meticulous and putting on his uniform or something and what often happens is we take hold of that one anecdote and we make a big deal about the particularities of how this man put on his uniform and we divorce it completely from the context of what the whole thing's about you know the the dynasty of the Green Bay packers and and their legendary coach Vince. Lombardi and and I think that's it's an illustration that I'm trying to make of what we do with scripture. A Lotta Times says it will kind of zero in on on an anecdote or a particular passage a story that we see in scripture and we divorce it completely from the context. So it's just like you would look at that person who read that book about the Green Bay Packers Dynasty and then was geeked up about how guy put us put his pants on. And you're thinking well did you like. Did you not understand what the book was about like we would never do that? You know or or a book about like World War Two and then there's some illustration about a soldier putting his uniform on we would say. Well No. The book is about World War. Two and we need to understand that everything that we're going to talk about with respect to this book needs to be understood in light of World War Two and that's all we're saying about the Bible. Is that whenever we go to a passage we want to understand that passage in light of the main point of scripture? Which is God's Plan of Redemption Accomplished through Christ and one thing that ginny sort of alluded to this already man. We're not trying to make silly connections. We're not trying to read Jesus into every verse of Scripture. Because I think sometimes. That's what people misunderstand us to mean when we talk about. Christ centered preaching. It's like we're trying to find Jesus on every page like the Bible is some sort of. Where's Waldo book or something like that's not at all what we mean? What? We're so. Let me just frame it? This way guys know throwback over to you the the way that I approach sermon preparation every week. I. I'm asking a question that I think every preacher. I'm GonNa go and say that I think every preacher should ask that ought to be the main question so the the question that I'm not asking first of all is where is Jesus in this text. I'm not asking that question. That's that's the wrong way to approach it in my opinion whereas Jesus in this text is the wrong question. The right question is where does this text? Stand in relation to Christ and and so when we when we go to the techs. Where does this text stand in relation to Christ is the first and most important question that I ask when I get ready to prepare a sermon? And so that is what we main by preaching from a redemptive historical perspective with Christ as as the center and Christ as the focus trite when you think about the purpose of the Bible is the purpose of the Bible to get the world to act. Better is the purpose of the Bible to create morality within humanity around the world then then a redemptive historical sending scripture would be would be a wrong perspective to have but if you understand that in Genesis. God sets up the entire story genesis one God the World Genesis three the world crashes and from that moment on even from John One we learned Jesus is in creation. He's the one who created so it starts with Jesus in creation Jesus then promised in Genesis Three fifteen to Adam and eve and from that moment on it is how does this promise from God to restore creation to Adam and Eve's their regional the original garden. How does it? How is it going to happen in everything from that moment forward is God proving when he made this promise he can fulfill it no matter how many times? Israel's covenant with God fails and know. How many times people try and stop? I mean the promise got all the way down to one person at one point the promised seed what got down to one human being if that one human being died and did not re procreate that would have been it promise over God would have been a liar and until you have the story that is unbelievable highs and lows beauty and just horrific disgusting what humanity does and then every single one of those stories is the fulfillment. This is why we would say at Theo cast we were all confessional. And because we're confessional we understand. That scripture is redemptive historic and it is a story of the fulfillment of a covenant. Right the Covenant of Grace fulfilled his covenant of Works in in the garden with Adam and Eve they failed the Covenant of Works God gives us a covenant of Grace. Promising that he will save us. Jesus comes and fulfills the original covenant of Works Without Him That's been further explained. So every sermon is not disconnected from that. You cannot the moment you something other than Christ in the work of Christ you are actually are emphasizing. The subset story like Justin just said something that doesn't matter because if the Bible began in Genesis with Jesus and you know what the book of revelation is all about Jesus coming back right to restore all things beginning to end and the filler in between is this epoch of proving to us God's faithful when you hear a sermon and that sermon is somehow emphasizing of soldier's uniform as is a great illustration. You should walk away a little disappointed. Like I'm not sure why why we're talking about that when the hero of the store. The point of the story is Jesus. Right right yeah I can. I can hear the alarm bells going off in people's minds and hearts right now. Is that as they listen to us. And J P I'm just gonNA. I'm GonNa play devil's advocate at with something that you said the question that you asked prepare any sermon is you know whereas Tech Stand in relation to Christ and so I can. I can hear people as they are processing that and and as the wheels turn and the gears turn there there can be almost this idea that maybe what they're asking is something like well doesn't that doesn't that kind of undermine the tax immediately that as you look at the tax do you begin you be you have like this presupposition approach of Russian well. Well I'm I'm just GonNa find where this tax relates to Christ and and even if the text doesn't mention Jesus I'm going to. I'm going to work as hard as I can get there and so specifically in. I've talked about this before. But I'm I'm preaching through First Corinthians and when you are in the middle of First Corinthians it is a difficult It's a difficult journey to say. The least I mean you are talking about discipline. You are talking about sexual immorality. You're talking about lawsuits between believers and so as you approach these really practical topics. Maybe I'll throw this back to you guys as you approach these really practical church life. A Christian live Christian living topics within. Let's say the epistles. How how do you take a passage you know for example you know? First Corinthians five through seven where within that within that front frame Paul Talks about? Don't sue believers you know settle matters with one another in love How how do you take a passage like that and still preach in relation to Christ? What would what would you guessing? We're excited to announce that we have a new free. E Book available at our website called faith versus faithfulness a primer unrest and we the host put together to explain the difference between emphasizing one's faith in Christ Verses Emphasizing Ones Faithfulness to Christ and how one leads to rest in how the other often to a lack of assurance and you can get this at Theo dot org slash primer. And if you've been encouraged by what you've been hearing it. Theo cast would ask you to help partner with us. You can do that by joining our total access membership. That's our monthly membership that gives you access to all of our material that we've produced over the last four years or simply by donating to our ministry. You can do that by going to our website. Theo cast out org. We hope that you enjoy the rest of the conversation so when I said what I did about. Where is this text? Stand in relation to Christ what I mean. Who's one of further clarify? What I mean I am. I am not just reiterate trying to find Christ in every single passage but I am understanding everything that is written in Holy Scripture in light of Christ in his work and his sufficiency and what he has done in the place of his people. It's sort of like that's the that's the northstar right like. That's what's orienting the compass. That's what's giving me my bearings as I look at scripture and so then underneath the sufficiency of Christ in his work and his redemptive work us and and the fact that he has accomplished our salvation. There are any number of things that we can talk about so i. I don't know how to answer your question Jimmy without going into something that we talk about pretty regularly here on. Theo cast being the the uses of the law. And so I. I know a charge. Let me just go and say this. I'm GONNA anticipate Another objection that's raised. People will say that if you if you go about. Christ centered preaching the way that we are talking about it the way that we are encouraging people to do. Then what you're going to end up doing is preaching basically the same sermon every Sunday. You're going through SII. Yeah you're you're basically going to end up being broken record saying something like okay. Well here is what God requires right. None of us have done it adequately. Certainly we've not done it perfectly. We all stand condemned but take heart because Christ has done it for you and trust him and to say that. That is the only thing that we would ever preach is very reductionist. Stick and I think it's an unfair caricature of of the kind of preaching that the three of us aim to do in our respective pulpits for sure because we also will hold that the three uses of the law. Not just the I use the first use being to show us our sin and drive us to Christ. We do preach that every Sunday you know. Even to the redeemed we make it clear we remind ourselves over and over and over again that all of us have failed to meet God's law and are therefore in desperate need of Christ but then we can also talk about what God prescribes in his word in terms of a way of living. And so Jimmy like your your question specifically about First Corinthians five through seven or there could be any number of other other passages that we could refer to. There's all kinds of stuff. There's all kinds of imperatives and exhortations and and the like that we do preach to. People Underneath Christ and the Gospel and the banner of all that we say. Now here's how we live because there is there's the second and third use of the law. We're doing these things is going to be good for your life avoiding. These things is also going to be good for your life and we strive in Christ Jesus to conform our lives to the word of God. Because it's good for us. It's good for our neighbor. And it honors the Lord and so we can say all of those things but the difference I think for us and in many people that that will wanNA preach impaired as well is. We strive to not IMPR- preach those imperatives in a threatening way to the saints because in. Christ they're no longer condemnatory or threatening and so I could happily preach about not suing each other and talk. You know at a common sense level about why. That's not good. If and we can do that underneath the banner of Christ in the Gospel. But the the whole tone and tenor of the sermon. I would contend is very different if you're reaching in light of Christ. Yeah it's right. I think the answer. Jimmy's question and to maybe connect everything that Justin just said to to Law Gospel as well. If the if the story of redemption if the Bible is a story of redemption and unfolds through history. What is God redeeming people from? Well it's offense against the law. Their original law given to Adam was. Do not eat of the tree right. That's the original one. Then Adam falls and order from them to see who they are because now it's part of their nature. Adam was the only one Adam and eve were the only one who went from pure nature to sinful nature an experienced. Both we now are born. And so the law. The new law mosaic law is was given so that we could see our needs so all of scripture is the unfolding of the law. You see your need and then the good news of the Gospel. Gospel is can't be done. Christ it for you believe. That's Gospel Right. So if you you when you read scripture you have to hold those two very tightly together because if I'm sorry a far apart because if you don't you mix them together you start mixing the story in and the purpose of the story so go to your question about First Corinthians and in You know what do suing each other. That were in there you have. Paul Begins With the Gospel Their Foundation and their their security in Christ is always based upon faith. This is why even says look. I don't WanNa preach nothing among you except for Christ and him crucified. That's the foundation of their faith. Yet we also understand that the human the human body is still underneath the curse so the spirit lives within us but the body is still broken. So Paul is helping believers who were have broken bodies learn how to function underneath the spirit. And he's saying listen. You have to. You have to live in grace and mercy and these are these are ways. Unfortunately you guys are messing this up. So if you preach that section of First Corinthians which is. Don't sue each other and you don't end that series with hope of Grace Gospel. You actually only give people law no hope and I just don't see how if you are a preacher of the Bible that you can disconnect and only preach one section of it disconnected from the rest if Christ is the point in Christ is the conclusion and he's the beginning and the end and nothing else matters except for your attorney with God then any instructions that you provide and you disconnect from hope in Christ then. I think it's I think you're not actually preaching Your your you've gone from preaching to explaining some historic text to somebody. There's a difference between explaining historic text in preaching. Yeah one of the things that I was gonna say as as we think about preaching Christ and preaching Christ from all of scripture. What's important to remember? Is that some of the things that were saying. It's not that necessarily the content looks different but I think one of the things. That is very different when you are truly preaching crisis the tone. It's the tone and tenor of couldn't agree more. Yeah a of the pulpit in that and and here. Here's what I mean. There is a difference too. I mean just to use the example that we've kind of been playing with for the past couple moments. There's a difference between between saying you know Real Christians. Don't sue one another so get your act together and cut it out. There's a difference between saying that which certainly that is on some level true. Don't sue your fellow believer right as we lay down prescriptions. There's a difference between saying and then saying this. Hey guys We have been given everything in our good Lord Shepherd King Jesus and as we think about living life together there are certainly going to be times of conflict and hardship and difficulty with one another but we have been given everything in the Gospel. The forgiveness of sins life everlasting and so as we approach one another as fellow pilgrims living this life. Well let us keep that in mind. You mean there's such a difference in tone as we as we think about preaching Christ that it's not necessarily that we we shirk the the the imperatives of what we see particularly in the pistols in the New Testament. But rather when when we see these things we understand them within. Its greater context. We understand it. Within its greater place. I Michael Horton has given a I think a wonderful illustration that if you think of the Christian life the though the law is is kind of like a boat with with a giant sale and if you get in that boat you know how it works you know what it does. It keeps you afloat. But here's the thing with no wind that bone ain't going nowhere and he talks about how the Gospel is like the wind in our sails that the Gospel moves the boat. And I. I just think that's a wonderful operation. And so I've even shared that with our church and actually in preaching conflict management with within our church in Perth. Corinthians cell. I I think that's just so important to keep in mind that when we preach Christ the content may look the same as when people are just simply explaining the Texas. Johnny talked about but the the major difference is the tone and the tenor of the pulpit. Well I think even in preaching were hanging out in. First Corinthians right now and it's fine I think even in preaching a passage like for the six you're preaching it in light of First Corinthians one and two in awareness worth fall begins you know like with with Christ in him crucified in the message of the Cross and all these things and even where he says. I Corinthians one thirty that crisis become to US wisdom from God and righteousness and sanctification and redemption. It's quite clear that that crisis is sufficient in what he has done for the Carinthian Christians and for all of us thereby and then even in First Corinthians six Paul immediately after talking about the lawsuit piece he talks about. How when you when you sue your brothers and sisters in the Church you are essentially defrauding. You know one another. And then he goes on immediately to say do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God and he talks about all these various kinds of sins in it. Such were you. You know you've been washed right. And you've been sanctified you've been cleanse right you've been redeemed by Christ Jesus and so he continually goes back to the Gospel in what Christ has done and even in exposing people in if he goes back to the Gospel and and will drive people constantly outside of themselves to Christ in a reminding them of their need for him. And so I do agree with your statement Jimmy that a lot of times the content will look similar And the tone and tenor is completely different. And I do think at times. We all agree that the content will be presented differently too. Because I know consciously for us we're preaching I Corinthians six through the Lens of First Corinthians One and two and you know we're preaching it neat like through the Lens of that whole redemptive historical framework of the Bible. And so we're always going to be holding Christ out and extolling the mercy and Power. In Grace of Christ to people even as we talk about. Hey guys here's how the redeem live with one another. We don't sue each other it it does. It doesn't do good things for us. It's bad for our neighbor. It makes the faith kind of look ridiculous and and we looked just like the world whatever it may be and we can say those things and and then there is a tone and tenor. And I'll even use the word. Tincture right it's an old word where everything that we preach and say is kind of tinted and flavored with the grace and mercy of God in Christ. Yeah I think I think we there's a member of my church and I'm stealing this from him and I think he says it really well that he said if you were to summarize the Bible in one verse he says it. Som- three eight salvation belongs to the Lord Full Stop and so the I mean that is kind of the Lens through which we at Christ community church. We preach that salvation belongs to the Lord that even when we preach these imperatives that they in no way change the indicative what God has done for us and Jesus and what I mean by that is even when we preach things to do ways to live Dare I even say ways to behave properly? As a Christian they are done with the greater context of salvation belongs to the Lord that these in no way mirror any sort of favor these Inouye merit any sort of righteousness before God because all of that has been given to you in Christ and Christ alone now in light of that in light of the wind in that Endo sales let us love and serve one another let us pursue one another with grace Let us live alive towards holiness. Not Not because it gives us anything in terms of Merit and righteousness are standing the rather because man those things have been freely given to us in the Gospel what God has demanded of us in the law. He's given US freely in Christ and therefore in light of this. This is how we this is how we go on living. You know the pilgrim Christian life. I would say if you look at it. I've made this observation in the past but to add to Jimmy I would say if you look at scripture. When we say redemptive historic the majority of the Bible in you know you can try and pick the the percentage on this but the majority of the Bible is narrative. It's not instruction. So you have story of what? God's doing and how men cannot live up to the expectation or the Commands of God that that is I I would say it would be fair to say that five percent of the Bible is instruction that applies to the believer. You have the the the law that's reinstituted in the thirty s along the New Testament not the ceremonial law. But the moral law and then you have even the epistle so if you re diffusions you don't get the instruction stole chapter four and same thing with Colossians insane things. With First Corinthians the what begins is either Gospel or narrative so you have a very small section of scripture that is instruction yet when it comes down to Christ centered preaching. It seems like we preach instruction. That's what we preach when the Bible if you're just GONNA take it at face value based upon the the the weight of what is it is used there. It is a story to prove to you that you should not trust yourself and that God is one hundred percent trust whether even though you may not fully understand you know I wrote an article recently called whereas gotten in and covert nineteen in there. I say there's no way to solve the problem of evil. We don't know why God chooses says to save some not all we don't know all those things but the one thing we do know is he's good. He's proven that he's good and he's never fell on his promise. That is the point of the Bible. One thing that's helpful in this conversation is understanding that the Bible is full of of what we would call Theologically speaking typology where there are things that occur earlier on in the story of redemption that our shadows and pointers to things that are coming later that are ultimate and so we see a number of things transpire throughout redemptive history that are that are pointing us and driving US toward the Christ the Messiah who is to come. Who is going to accomplish all of the things that these shadows and pointers have been indicating and one way that we could even talk about this My Mind's going like a thousand miles an hour right now. 'cause I heard your comment John on the Bible being mostly narratives. Well let me just like a little exercise and even like redemptive historical christ-centered thinking or settle the Allergy Yeah Biblical theology and then even thinking about types and anti types right so the type and then the one that's coming that's alternate so think about one of the most famous stories in scripture and David and Goliath. There's there's no imperative given in that entire story IT'S A. It's a remarkable a remarkable account. Where we well okay. The for the point of for the point of what we're doing right now there's no more imperatives that come out of that passage. Bill Testament than any other brother. Though I know I mean so the the irony is we read. The story of David and Goliath and in the way that it's often presented as you know here are the ways that you can do this out of the other and slay the giants in your life and all of that and and The story is this. I mean we have this great enemy of God's people you know this giant this conqueror the head of the armies of the enemies of God and and all this and we have this young shepherd boy in who goes out to the front lines. He's only there because he's bringing his older brothers some food you know nobody will go and fight the giant champion of the enemy. And he's like well shoot man this this guy's defiling the armies of the Living God. I'll go find him. And we have this insane account. Where literally God's plan of Redemption is hanging in the balance a young shepherd boy with some rocks and the rock is thrown hits giant guy in the head and then the shepherd boy goes and cuts the head off of the enemy champion of the enemy of God's people and we say Praise God. His plan endures an and redemption can happen and everything else and we we look at that account and we say hey guys. Here's some stuff that we can do you know. Here's some stuff that we can go about doing in slaying giants in our lives rather than saying man. There's one coming greater than David who will sit on the throne of David forever. Who's GONNA cut the head off of the serpent named Satan? And he's going to. He's going to be our our champion in our redeemer and our Savior forever like that's the point of of that tax. It's it's David's life. Is there because Christ is coming and Christ as the Greater David rather than US looking at it and saying well if we have faith like David and if we go out there with our slayings and if we do this and that and the other will will slay the giants in our lives the giants of anxiety and fear in whatever and we'll we'll have purpose and it's it's crazy? Yeah yeah I mean dare dare to be there to be a David or dare to be a Daniel whatever whatever it may be I'm GonNa say something and not I'll see what you guys think. I think that it takes a lot more work. It takes a lot more work to moralize scripture then to preach Christ from scripture that that's my bowl claim of the day. I think it takes so much more work and energy to throw morals were they don't exist onto the framework of a redemptive historical understanding of the Bible. Then it takes to actually preach Christ from the tax case in point. You Look at the Psalms the psalms in so many regards. Are these difficult hard. Words is Chad Bird. Licencee hurled at the heavens thrown. At God's saying where are you what are you doing and it is so easy for us to look at the psalms and moralize them and say? Well here's what you know. We should be. Here's what we should do when in so many regards particularly the psalms of lament we just look at the psalms lament and we say it's okay for us to lament God's people lamented throughout history and and even even as we think about different things within the gospels. It we will look at the the miracles of Jesus or the the works of Christ within the Gospels and we try to moralize those and it's like literally he's right there he's right there. All you have to do is just turn the light on and let people see how glorious Jesus is you have to do much. You didn't have to do much that like he's he's shining and instead you wanna find your place in somewhere else you wanna find your place you in some in some moral within the greater narrative which to me is just so difficult. I think it just takes a lot more work. But that's just me Jimmy. I think it's a observation. I I couldn't agree with you more. I actually feel. I've been both preachers of immoral preacher of an illegal preacher and then now I preach Christ and trying to come up with clever outlines that give people instructions was very hard and it was hard not to sound like you are preaching the same thing every single week and so topical ends up becoming easier because you can just pick whatever topic going to cover your preaching attacks than you trying to come up with instructions from the text and each one. It's very hard but if you are just going to lead people to rest in Christ and you're going to explain the text in its context to me. It is the best kind of preaching. It is wonderful because all you're doing is just revealing the glory of God in Christ to people each and every week but when it comes down to providing morals And it's not in the text to that it is hard. It is complex. I will tell you what is hard for me and thankfully my churches transition mostly out of this. What's hard for me? Is that when I do preach this way? I get attacked because people say but John. You're not giving me anything to do. And then I get accused of being anti nausea and not expository preaching cycle John. You're not exposed to preach because in their mind. Expository preaching is read the texts. No give me something to do. I think to respond to the idea is it. Is it more work to preach morals into moralize the Bible? I think my answer would be yes and no. I think that on the one hand it is harder work com leslie. Where in Honolulu? Meaning like how. We actually go to preach and prepare a sermon. And so I do think it's more work to moralize stuff and then fit into a nice outline and make it make it hang and make it clever and everything else. I think to moralize the Bible though is is as natural as breathing for us. And I think it's also what we are taught in many church context too so I think we we tend to go to scripture immediately. Turn it into okay. Well this is clearly about me and what I need to be doing rather than realizing that the whole point of scripture is about Christ and what he has done for me and now I live in light of that and so i. That's why maybe how I would answer. It is yes and it's it's no. I mean John. Very quickly to pick up on what you were talking about the the way that we're charged with not being expository preachers because we're not giving people imperatives that that's a really old song I think. That's that song regularly. And it's it's hurled against US lobby against US. That while there's no moral impetus to your to your preaching. You're not giving people any kind of moral imperative ever and my response to that initially is well. Why don't you? Why don't you come to some services and listened to me or listen to John or listened to Jimmy. Why don't you get on our sermon audio podcast feeds and I think you'll you'll understand pretty quickly that none of us are anti noman where we're talking plenty about how we live together in the church and I go back to. I'm not GonNa say it all again. I go back to the fact that we use the law lawfully I Timothy one eight. We uphold the law. When it's used lawfully and we we drive people to Christ in our main unashamedly like the first primary most important main takeaway every Sunday from any sermon. That we ever preached should be trust. Christ if it's not were wrong so that we'll start there but then after that sure there can be a number of other things that people are thinking about. Yeah I wanNA own just doing that there because I want to love my neighbor better or or whatever it may be. We're all saying that stuff so to act as though there is no moral imperative ever given when you preach in a Christ centered. Fashion is we're describing is just flat out not true and so yeah I I think we could. We could talk we. Maybe maybe go in here. And I want Jimmy to t this up for us about what people understand expository preaching to be and then why they would even make such an accusation like you just mentioned John Like Year. Not Preaching an expository fashion. Because you're not telling me a bunch of stuff to do and even your tone is confusing to me. Yeah so one of the things that I have noticed and I see frequently is that there is this. There's this desire the strange desire that you wanna be yelled at when you hear a sermon that there is this equating of feeling. Good and feeling like spiritually filled. If you also feel beat up at the end of a sermon that if somebody if the preacher has like injudiciously yelled at you for forty minutes you know and you feel all sorts of beat up all sorts of bad for how you living or how you're living are higher lack of Christian living that you feel and you equate that to Spirituality and so you know maybe we we take a couple couple swings at this but we really thi this up for the members is that maybe we should talk about some like angry preaching that and I I have been guilty. I mean I'm glad I'm grateful for the first church I ever served in. They were beyond gracious. But man I mean I remember just like her. I the only way to say is like hurling insults insults at God's people and lamented the way that I did that and the desire behind it I think is to kind of wake up. Nominal Christians But I have some thoughts on that but Maybe you guys take some parting shots and we we it over to the members. I'll give a parting shot really quickly John. You said something earlier in the podcast and I don't know that I ever commented on it. You you mentioned what is what the goal of preaching is and we were talking to each other before we hit record about this. What we understand the goal of preaching to be and My short answer to that question and I take my inspiration somewhat from John Calvin in his commentary first John Five thirteen where he basically says paraphrase that it's the duty of any godly minister to extol as much as possible. The Grace and power of Christ so that we being satisfied that might not look anywhere else and so I I think in those terms. Every time I get in the pulpit that like to use the language of Paul for screens to I seek to know nothing among you other than Christ him crucified. I went to herald and extol the mercy the power the grace the sufficiency of Christ and the prayer of course is that everybody. Who's hearing the sound of my voice would trust in Christ alone and so that that I think I mean in other people may frame it in their own words. But I think that if we'RE GONNA talk about Christ centered preaching. That's the heart behind it. That's the motivation. And that's the goal. Is that everybody would trust and rest in Christ and know the piece that is ours in him. Amen the goal really if if you're a reformed confessional Preaching as a means of grace and so we understand that as we hear God's were given to us it should increase our so. The goal of fishing is to help people rest in Christ and to. So if you would ask me what the goal of preaching was before I got into seminary Basically I was a puritanical preacher. The goal was to whip people into shape and get them to stop during lackadaisical. Get them to start reading. Live on that was the goal of reaching. So we'll we'll talk more about angry preaching. And what is the purpose of of of preaching in the members? Pike thank you for listening We hope this is encouraging to you. If it hasn't been encouraging please reach out. Let us know voicemail. He can find the number on our website and we would be happy to To to hear from you also to answer your questions coming down the line. We probably have already announced by now but we have a new podcast coming. Your way called asked vio cast just another way for us to help answer quick questions that we get from you there about two to three minutes long. And if you don't WanNA membership is it's our way of helping fund what we do. It's how we print books until we produced educational classes. And it's how we fund this podcast of more people here about the message of Christ. Learn more about that at our website. Those who you're a members buckle up on telling you right now to Jimmy. He's about to unleash so it's good to have you join. Us overlooking podcast.

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Archive Favorite: The Dark Side of Christianity

Theocast - Reformed Theology

42:58 min | 3 months ago

Archive Favorite: The Dark Side of Christianity

"This is John and today on. Theo cast were going into the archives and pulling out one of our favorite episodes from last year, the dark side of Christianity. We do this every year to give the host a break, but it also allows us to go back and pick some of our favorite episodes and introduce them to our new listeners this particular episode. We find helpful the current context that we are in. In a sparse Christianity, and the world in pandemic and race. We hope this is encouraging to you, and if you haven't got our new book yet, it's available in evoke and paperback form to called safe in Christ primer on rest can get that our website. Thanks for listening. Hi, this is Justin Today on theo cast. We're going to be talking about the darkness and the evil that exists within all of us. The Christian life is often anything but clean. It's messy. It's hard. Were not always on this nice clean upward trajectory of ongoing improvement. We're GONNA talk honestly about that. And talk honestly about the fact that it's impossible to navigate the Christian life in this fallen world until we come to grips with who we really are. We're excited to have this conversation and we hope that it's helpful to you. Stay tuned! Welcome to theo cast encouraging weary pilgrims to rest in Christ. Conversations about the Christian life from a reformed perspective. Our hosts today are John Moffatt pastor of Community Bible Church Spring Hill Tennessee. Jimmy Bueller Pastor of Christ community church in Wilmer Minnesota and I'm Justin Purdue Pastor of covenant. Baptist Church in Asheville North Carolina. Jimmy, you have the cultural update for today. Man. What's going on in your world? No pressure, yes, so we are. In the process of planting a church as the listener may remember from the interview that we did. And just various outlets in whoever's listening in this is like probably you've ever done right very easy. Planting a church suck money's lower. It is yeah. You gotTa pull a lot of weeds. Hope you're talking about church. Members had done. No, no, so we are in what we're calling the core family face, and so essentially we've gathered nine core families and eighteen adults. That number plus of children. A lot of those are three to five. Yes resonates with me. Yeah, it can be pretty crazy, so we're getting. We're getting to the phase. Also were were pretty Ansi to launch trump because right now. We're meeting in homes when you're like less than sixty days away, right? Yeah, yeah, so around there you know we were using the language of Warren nobody's time, but our own. because we WANNA. Make sure that we have some bases covered that we know what we're walking into. so we're excited. A people are excited. People are beginning to ask about the church plant, and you can I, come in and we, we kind of have this policy. You know that the core family phases not a revolving door. Yes, sir, because it can just really play with the dynamics of the team the launch team will not to use that overly use language, but out but yeah, so we're excited. I'm getting antsy. and this might sound strange, but I think the thing that I'm most Ansi for is just to to preach and worship with people. Take the table with ice oil. You know be you miss those things. Do you know we were ordinary? Means of grace? Guys, so we understand that? Yeah, so yeah, we're. We're getting excited I remember there men it there is. I felt like it was six months of organizing. And I am very organized person in general, but the the idea of ministering the Gospel. Loving people and then just organization they. The details right know that you wish you could just like when you hire somebody to move you that you can hire moving company. You just wish you could hire somebody. Yeah, to just do all the the details where you just worry about loving on people shepherding. Yeah, those. Those those times I can remember the mall to up their exciting on the one hand. They're very frustrating on the other and yeah, there's a lot of anticipation church findings. Joke is not a job. We're talking about it before I. Know That my wife and I talked regularly about this that the Lord's done a lot of good in the last four years and we'd never. WanNa do these years again. And there there you have that Sudan willow talking about the before we. All that to say for those of you who are listening and care, but please pray for Jimmy. Yeah love that he's about to go through a very hard season of life. That's right. How old are your children again? by the time that you hear this opie about seven five in two? Yeah, yeah, so yeah, you can have that Christ community M dot. ORG CHECK US out. Give the poor men donation. They are taking seed. Faith. And still looking for location from right now we are looking for a location. It's not as easy as perhaps we thought servers place. It was part of the Woolmer Wilmer itself is twenty thousand I. Mean you know there's other areas around us I couldn't give you an exact number because I don't know how far you want yet. Mile Marker Toco fifty. Search for spaces real they it is were sort of outgrowing our space right now, and we're looking for another place to meet and yet coming up empty at the present moment. Absolutely yeah, could problem. It is a good problem. Editor Greg proper. Try this again. Yeah, then no worries man! What are we talking about a deborah. So I. don't want to scare everybody away today I. Think is going to be very beneficial, but if you if you walk with us for at least fifteen minutes and lettuce, and let us set the platform a little bit, so you're saying we're coming out of the gates hot and we're GONNA, come out of the gates, a little, hot, hot dark, but I would say with every man around this table and for a lot of the listeners who walked with for a long time. You'RE GONNA. Appreciate this conversation. I think so too. Yeah. Yeah, Christianity! In Jinro is a glorious movement of course started by our Savior Jesus Christ. But there's a confusion when it comes to this movement and a lot of it is What would the? The precious moments movement where everything seems clean and bright. And the status should be always believing up and forward. And assumes white and pure. And then. Those of us who are pastors who then go behind the door and close it and people then say my life is not. there. many who listen and hopefully those of you who are new. You will begin to identify with what we are trying to present, which is a very old concept of very old theology. This is nothing new. None of the passers around the table are going to say you're not going to believe what we have discovered. That's right unless we've been reading old books and it's rediscovering. Today is. More about it. Just work with me as as we unfold this potatoes more about the dark side of Christianity Yeah the real side of Christianity the dark side of the Christian Life Yeah, this is one of those moments where if if I was preaching a sermon, it'd be like hey, before the parking lot empties. Just hang with me for a minute. neds right? Yeah, yeah! Is. Conversation would be like that. Man Yeah. Real they are in. The I would say this isn't because of experience. This is a pastor which is true, you know. I grew up in a pastor's home, a been a pastor for well over going over fifteen years and from my own personal life, the Christian life is not bright, and it's not clean, and it's not pure. the hope is the final state is absolutely and Christ is an absolutely in our joy, which is is listen that so today is more of I. would say a reality check, let let let's if we if we're all willing for everyone. WHO's listening to us in your car and your headphones washing decision? You Know Walking Mown Lawn. If you were to say in evaluate your life. You would say okay, yes, I. If we're going to be completely honest and this isn't going to be broadcast cross. Social, media! The Christian, life is very much an uphill climb. That is muddy, dirty and grimy. And what do we do I mean? How do you evaluate that? From the sense of all of these promises being cleanse being new. In Pub-! I think Paul sets us up for this concept of. I hate what I do, and the things that I. WanNa do. I'm not doing them over wretched men than I am and Disney Hall Stop, there no. There is hope and yet there is reality. Yeah, so today's podcast is. How do you marry the two of those? And then move forward, and I mean before we even jump into the messy piece again. The hope is what allows us to stare the reality in the face and call it what it is. Yeah, and say okay. Yeah, WE'RE GONNA. Pull back the curtains of our lives and we're going to talk about it honestly right because of Christ. We actually can have this conversation. Yeah, I think it's impossible. And that's A. That's a very bold salmon. I understand that, but I think there's a strong word I think it's almost impossible to move forward and truly experience rest until you are willing to admit the actual state of that you're could not anymore right. Yeah so I. Don't know if you guys have ever. Like shared bad news somebody I'm sure you have, but the idea of. You wouldn't believe what just happened and I just want you to know right away that everybody's okay right, but and then you go onto share about you know some tragic thing or whatever, and and really that's what we're trying to talk about today. Is it we want to. We want to talk about the dark side of the Christian life and the Christian heart, and the Christian experience, the Christian experience, which most people don't want to talk about. No, but were doing it against the backdrop of the hope of the Gospel Mantra where it's like not the good news is here. Right everybody you're okay. Everybody's okay. You know to to to go on analogy, but. But here here's some tragic tragic reality. Yeah, so I'm I'm going to do this, but the risk of sounding. The tagline for our church coming about. Church Nashville is imperfect, people, perfect savior, and so what we're talking about right now. Is that reality that we are far from perfect and we're GONNA. Be Talking about that and we can talk about it because we are all looking to and pointing one another to the perfect one who is our righteousness, who is the ground of our assurance and so now let's be real, yeah. Yeah! So in the conflict, and this is where I would say in the podcast we try and ground ourselves. And reading through a confession for instance a lot of some of you that. May Be drawn to the Westminster Confession around this table. We we all are churches, confessed the sixty-nine about compassion. And in those confessions, your face with some hard realities, your and the realities in that is that even though Jesus crisis washed your sends his cleansed you. He has come to live within you. You have been grafted onto Christ right? This is the glorious. The, truth of the Avar, Baptism were grafted into Christ. He's given us a new heart, a new desire as the new identity, and then you wake up the next morning and say why am I still angry? What do I still feel like this right? Why am I still sad? Why am I mad? Why do I yell at my kid? And so what happens is that lead you to great despair, so we evaluate our life and say I should be this way and I'm not. Yeah. Something's either I'm not saved more. Something's broken. That's Raya I. Don't know at your guys, experiences, but many many years of my life I woke up and went. I have to continue to fake because I am not like everybody else. I see church on out my them. Rant on broken because they show up as if everything is fine, I show up a go. Nothing is fine. Everything is wrong, right? I. Is that been your experience? Yeah, absolutely I mean I would. I, would I mean I remember having conversations with people? And thinking these things of. Meant the. They're talking like this and they are. Praying this way and they appear this way on the outside. But something within me feels very off. Center is trump like I'm. I'm not I'm not feeling the way that they're feeling to by what they're saying. But what is said now by their actions? That's right. Right and yes. Oh, absolutely I mean I I definitely I mean still to this day. You know when I see somebody and he I mean. Here's just a glimpse into the wickedness of my own heart. When I see somebody! Do doing a pious act if you will, my first thought is not to rejoice. And that the spirit of God is moving within my first thought is. What I do that. Man, I I should and. To use that word you said it I think Justin. You said earlier. The should word yeah, the should word can be so dangerous terror the Christian life, so there's there's a darkness I appreciate. Men like Luther, even cavernous, who understand the darkness of the heart. I've been around enough. I grew up in a pasture, so my wife driven pastor so unfortunately we have seen men who are faithful men who are not we've. We've seen a lot of pain and I remember the first time I read the letter of Confession Chapter Fivers. Five, it made my heart. Phil so safe because I understood there wasn't something wrong with me. There was something wrong with this world that Christ would make right. Yeah, let me just read this real. Quick I. I think it's helpful. The most wise, righteous and gracious God does not often does oftentimes. Leave for a season his own children please note. He is speaking of regenerate speaking of believers people who belong to who have been adopted by God yes Christians. The spirit lives within them. Yeah, okay, so we're talking about new creation people. His own children to manifold temptations, and the corruptions of their own hearts to chastise them for their former sins, or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption and deceitfulness of their own hearts, that they may be humbled, and raise to them a more close and constant dependence for their support upon him. I could not I exploded with joy to know that my gracious father at times exposes to me. The. Frailty and deceitfulness of my own flesh, absolutely yeah, so that I will turn and desperation say father. If without you I would be, I would be I would be deserving right and am deserving of hell, right so those of you who say wake up and say. I don't deserve. God's Love I'm like yes, you're right. It's true and it's actually worse than you ever imagined. That's yeah, that's right. Yeah, yeah is foggy at the moment. I believe John Newton. WHO said you know I'm a mystery. Unto myself a heap of inconsistency. Yeah, yeah, because I. Don't know about you, but. I can go through particular weeks. You feel pretty good. You feel pretty like a and I'm using air quotes. My son doesn't feel that bad. And so you can get really confident in yourself. And, then all of us all eight. That can change on a dime. Men that change in a moment when some of Disney's blinker. You're exactly. Yeah, and it just we as people. Are So inconsistent. I've always loved the word fickle sure. We are like the fickleness of the human heart yeah. You know I I I was talking about this the other day with somebody where? The language of. Okay Got God knows your heart. God knows your heart. God knows your heart and that, and that's what terrifies exactly. That's what terrifies me. Is that God knows my heart because. I just have a little glimpse. Of My heart and I can see the wickedness. Their God sees all the way to the bottom yet mountain and let's call your wife. Yeah? Go! Get around. That's right well, not only do. We love to ground ourselves in the confessions. Obviously, we love to ground ourselves in Scripture Ryan, so to talk about. Like, you just alluded to Jimmy. God sees down to the bottom. What God say about our hearts I mean think about Genesis Chapter six where God saw that the thoughts and the inclinations of Man's heart, and was only evil continually. Yeah, that describes all of us that that Anna Coffee Cup right that's not going to be slapped up on the refrigerator, and then just read Noah's life, and there are no precious moments figurines with those versatile. Absolutely, not Jeremiah seventeen nine right. The heart is desperately sick. WHO CAN UNDERSTAND IT? Yeah, answer. No one read it Romans. Three nine to twenty I mean I think it's familiar to many were Paul cites the psalms and Isaiah just to make the point that there is no one who does good. There's no one who is righteous. No one who seeks after God right, no, not even one like not even one Paul no bro, no. James is talking to the believer rank and WHO's warning against? He's warning against Satan. Who can come in absolutely deceive you because you're that vulnerable you are that Boehner near that year that easy to see absolutely, and then, of course it's already been referenced wants today. Romans Chapter Seven Galatian chapter five, where we are told by the Apostle Paul that the internal war between the spirit, our inner man in the flesh is real to where we find ourselves, not doing the things we WANNA do. In doing the things that we don't want to do. which as you already said John? It leads him to scream to cry out wretched man than I am. WHO's GonNa? Rescue me and thanks be to God for Jesus Christ, but I know that we're three pastors sitting around this table right now. And as we've spent time together recently and we're. We're talking about things that we've seen. In the church which led to this podcast exactly it led to this podcast. We've talked about even our own. Our own hearts yeah I. Mean my goodness. You know one of the things that I think we're all very convicted about is never just as pastors like less than anybody ever misunderstand I. Mean we do not have it all together. You know there are many guys, sadly and ministry that have built their ministry on a public persona of having altogether strength. Yes, drinks. Oh, yeah, like the the pastor's marriage is always doing well right on the. He's not having up a rough season. If I ask him how he's doing, he's supposed to be on top of. He's supposed to be on top of his game. He's not stumbling, not struggling. He certainly not questioning anything his affections or where they need to be whatever. Yeah so I remember I. Remember Watching I. think There's some sort of documentary on. you know a large mega church pastor? It was from a secular. Worldview, you know they were. They were fascinated by the success and growth of this church and the size of this church, and that's neither here, nor there that's not the point, but the the pastor was speaking to the reporter and one of the things that he said. Dare I say haunts me to this day because he says I know that I'm not allowed to have an off day spiritually. And I just I remember watching that as a young pastor. And that was crushing because I'm like. Well, I. I had one yesterday. Or today Roy and I know I'm going to have one next week now. Well I know I've had because we all can buy into the lie and this is true for the Christian. This is true for the pastor that we should have it altogether dead. We should be better by now. There's. So there, I can't tell you. There have been a number of Sunday mornings. In the last several years as I've been the lead pastor of CBC. Where my sin in my frailty. Becomes incredibly apparent on Sunday morning. And I'm wrestling with my own frame and I'm wrestling with the wickedness in the corruption that still is in me, and the enemy immediately just jumps all over me where it's like. How in the world are you fit to now go and preach God's Word and Shepherd God's people when you are such a trainwreck. Yeah. I think that. In I've been preaching for a long time in a very different context, and I would say in the last two years when our even maybe in the last five years in a church where we do take communion every week as as we right there is. There's a side of me that the only reason I can climb into the pulpit and is knowing. That, the that the Gospel Truth of the table is come, we'll be ministered to me at the so I come to the pulpit as a congregate knowing that at the end we will be feasting on Christ and trusting in that means an that isn't to say that I. Don't get into the pulpit prepared sir, but there is never a moment that the more I look at Christ, and the more the gospel becomes a mirror to my own life and look into that mirror and I am so horrified by my sin that I come in, and I look down upon those who are sitting down in a chair. I look at them ago. Do we not? Need Christ data and but like we do we we ought. We have come in desperate need of what only Jesus can provide. Try All. We're excited to announce that we have a new free book available at our website called faith versus faithfulness a primer on rest, and we the host put this together to explain the difference between emphasizing one's faith in. Versus emphasizing wants faithfulness to Christ and how one leads to rest in how the other often to a lack of assurance. And you can get this at Theo cast dot org slash primer, and if you've been encouraged by what you've been hearing at, the cast would ask you to help partner with us. You can do that by joining our total membership. That's our monthly membership that gives you access to all of our material that we've produced over the last four years or simply by donating to our ministry. You can do that by going to our website. Theo cast out work. We hope that you enjoy the rest of the conversation. Guys I think a lot of what we said. Most people are going to be able to recognize that relate to that they see that they struggle with sin they see the the wickedness of their own heart, and in many respects, some more some less. But I guess I'm curious. How do you think the average Christian? What are some ways that you think the average Christian seeks to deal with this? Is this is tough I. If you're new to the cast is this might be episode one. You're going first of all. This is heavy. I fell guys. Relax and I. I agree I mean if you've been if if you could just. If you could go, have lunch with us. You would laugh we. We have laughed so hard today. And there's a side of it where we have. Because the three of US understand our reality. We don't take ourselves here. You can't take yourself seriously. No, you can't. It's almost like when you're playing junkyard. Ball. You're playing junk. Our basketball and approach shows up you're. Not GonNA events I mean we're going to just laugh and have a good time. Sometimes ever nineties Oren Be. Absolutely seeing Joe Joe. Well, you gotta give the people what they want. To be a new intro music I like our interim music. Yet no due to your question me I I would say. The hardest part of this whole conversation is you have to admit you're not who you think you are. You're not who you're presenting yourself to be. You know who you are I'll take that back. You know who you are. You're just now who you present yourself to be hidden especially not on instagram or Facebook, and you've got to be willing to talk in public like you think in private But, that's like what's what's the board ladder dirty laundry by? That's I. Mean we're not saying throw discretion and discernment out the window, and just like relational. Throw up all over again. That's not what we're saying. Is it more posture than a conversation? A posture than a conversation I think so. Yeah, I think that's fair I. I I'm wanting to process that on the fly, but I think that's a fair way to put it. Yeah, yeah, you don't you. Don't jump into conversation. Hey I'm Jimmy. What's your name? What's your worst sin when you get? A jump into that however. I think a lot of times. I myself. I operate in almost this cognitive dissonance. where I have this. I know who I am. I know what I'm presenting to you. I'm wondering what your perception of me is and particularly and my wife May Giggle at this if she there's to listen. that. When she's there and meeting somebody. It's always what I know who I am I know I'm presenting. My wife really knows who I am writing. You know so. There's this constant dissonance and and I know. That as Christians allowed times we try to mass that we try to cover that up her or what we try to do, is we try to discipline ourselves out of it? and so what we say is okay I send in this way I send XYZ today. But tomorrow. I'm going to do ABC of the Christian Life and that's going to be a little bit offset to kind of take to silence that. Sir You know the law working on me. I recently walked into a movie theater with my children to watch a new marvel movie. What fascinated me about the experience. I sat back for a moment because we got the early enough. What fascinates no one there postures themselves as somebody. Like we're we're all there. To receive new information inexperience. As recipients so I, never there was never like at the person next to me in front of me behind me. I, never felt like I needed to do anything or to prove to them or to lobby, right? We were there to also receive what we had paid for. Yeah, but when you walk into the church. That is not the case church. There is posturing. There is lobbying. There is presentation positioning you position yourself posturing as acceptable and what the Gospel does, and as if you continue to listen to Theo cast what the Gospel does. The law absolutely says stop posturing. Yeah, because it crushes you. You were here to observe that you are unworthy. That's right. You are here to observe that there is one who is perfect. Now there is one who obeyed the one who is worthy, and you are not that one. When go ask Isaiah, how posturing in is asx? The coal on my lips blessed right WHOA. Is Me Whoa is me. Yeah, yeah, and then when when you when you truly. Here, the Law of God read over you. And you. You sit for Robert Properly by. That's right. Yeah, you would never try to achieve a properly. No, no, no, it'd be. It'd be insane, yeah. But honestly we're not talking. Again this goes to my comment earlier. We'll God knows your heart it exactly. The ball that's the problem. The law confronts that right though that I do know your heart. I. Mean that's the sermon on the mount it is you have heard it said. You know do not do not murder and. Almost, everybody, if not everybody listening to this podcast at yeah good I didn't do that. If you've ever been angry at anyone, yeah is acquitted of murder, and whether except to not, that's reality. And all crisis doing as we're all saying in that moment is, he is preaching and applying the law to the heart, as it was always intended to be right, preached and apply yeah. Yeah I think the weight that Christians feel. That is often i. think shifted or moved. I think it needs to remain otherwise. The Gospel doesn't make any sense. When you walk in you go. I am an epic failure. Yeah, I. Can I everything I? Think I should be I. Am not an I WANNA say? Yes, agree so am I, right? This is why Jesus says that he is absolutely the only way the truth and the life right? No one can come to him except through what don't come to the father and through him. Exactly that's right. Yeah, I! I couldn't agree more about the law. The problem in many cases is that the law has been so relative is dumb down that we have deluded ourselves into thinking that we can keep it now and I agree that that I use of the law. If we're talking about how it's been understood, historically theologically that I use of the law, which is to show us our sin, and drive us to the savior. The monotony needs to be heralded. Heralded to the redeemed every single Lord's Day so that we do feel the weight of the law and we do understand like yeah I've got no shot like I am absolutely wrecked, ruined and bankrupt, before a holy God as I, look at his requirements, and as I assess my life, thank God for Jesus, and then, of course we can talk about how we live as believers third use of the wall. And I think a lot of times that confusion about between the long the Gospel certainly, but even that I in that third use. It presents all kinds of bad things in the church in the life of the Christian. Yeah! I think this is why even very. Congregate or friend. Come to you and say man I've been reading deuteronomy. Is Rough very rough I. Don't understand blood and this and that. There's assignment that goes. Are you feeling. It's kind of difficult like yeah, there's so much right right from big, and that's not even a fraction of what God requires. Like. I would say that's entry level and they would go. That's insane right now. You need to understand what God requires. Not One human has come one step close to it, and then Christ comes on the scene and it wasn't even. A thought Psych No. I obey the father. That's what I do. Yes where we've gotten is to the place of we're talking about the the. The total depravity of man, we're not talking about the utter depravity and this important. Yeah, this is very impairing. That's an important distinction. Where the utter depravity of man would say, you know it's just completely lawless. Anarchy where is bad as we could ever be? That's right. That's not what we're saying. That is not don't hear what we're not right. We're talking about total depravity. You know the the theological term Nowak effects of. It's woven throughout all of your soul. All of your mind, all of your person hood, but again to get to that question. The idea of what do we do? How do we how have how have Christians? Today. Think of the modern church seen today, and we'll speak to the American church, because that's where we are the ways that we've tried to combat that and so luther you know. He talked about the idea of you know. I went to the monastery. I'm extremely paraphrasing here. I went to the monastery, but that old rascal speaking of self came with me. Yes, right and so no Protestant today. is begging to go to the monastery. But I think what we do is we build? These kind of spiritual monasteries ESCON? Yeah, and the way we do that is we try to spiritually discipline ourselves out, sir. and. It's like it's not that we do that apart from Christ, but what I think happens is that Christ is in the background. Christ becomes the taskmaster of complete. These disciplines do these tasks. And you will have you know kind of the Christian life that I designed to half. This is glaciations when Paul says wait, wait wait a minute. How did you begin by? The spirit was always since three was. It works of the flesh is no, it's. It was by preaching of the Gospel that bring forth faith by the spirit. Yeah, it's by the work of the spirit, and then later on in Colossians he says you're doing all of these works while the flesh to try and control the flesh, and they're not working. Now listen. To be to be to be fair and be clear. We're not throwing out common. Now we're also not throwing out. Listen Be Wise Yeah, but it's very clear in Paul and in Christ that there are means Bhai which God uses. To grow and strengthen US men to protect US Jeff. And unfortunately we have transitioned those as Jimmy said into disciplines. If I am quiet if I do this. If I eat this way, sleep this way journal. This way read this way. Therefore, I'll be a Christian. That's right and I even think to use the language of new creation. oftentimes weeds think about being a new creation meaning. That I'm doing all of that stuff. Like I'm a new creation, therefore, that means that my life looks like ABCD progression progression. It's that continual upward trajectory of its ongoing improvement. All of that kind of stuff it's linear. It's nice, it's clean. It's tidy because I'm a new creation. In Christ, Jesus, and that is not the presentation of the New Testament. Another disclaimer that I think we can make as we've talked about this. You know we're not excusing. Sin Were not excusing ridiculous behavior in all of this, and even with respect to pastors I mean we've talked about hearts. We sat around the table. There are such things as elder qualifications. We're not disputing any of the now not at all and every everyone around the Mike. The moment I feel like one of you are myself and disqualified, or we should call it out absolute rubbish, so don't understand us in anything that we're saying. And at the same time we're talking about the fact that the human heart is desperately sick, and that we as we just talked about with total depravity, every aspect of our person has been corrupted and tainted by sin. Yeah and I would add to that. that. Not We're not seeking to excuse in at all. Not Nobody's nobody's saying that, but what we are saying is, but we're not surprised by it not at all. No. So when I have so in before me. Confessing something I mean I remember confessing sin to somebody and I said. I just I feel. This is weird and that person just looked at me and said. We'll, send his weird. Enter it just kind of brought that weight of lightness. Sure where yeah I mean we we. We were talking about this earlier on John's porch of. You go in the Old Testament Yeah, there's some weird stuff. Noah. Yeah it. It's some rough reading. Okay, the Fathers Abraham Isaac and Jacob Yeah just go read their history ride. You'RE GONNA. Walk Away with a your need. Drink water, right. Right now, people you know that are like hey. I just sold off my wife. Well I know I know it's like Oh! We all just want to be like you know Father Abraham, and this is not the same Abraham, but it's like man I. Know Many people in my church who have done better than Abraham when it comes to. Their marriage, or what never cheated on my wife to be clear, Kaoh appraise prays I've never lied about. My wife got and never gonNA. Call me the father of the faith now which should be glory to God, and not to Abraham Amen Bro. I think there there's a side of it Ju go to go. To be clear and. In the past, the cast has been accused of being too no Mian. Way What Dot Com Donna the for those of you who know that word is means antilock were against holiness against the laws of God and I. Want I. Want to explain something to. There's a difference between acknowledging the frailty of Man. I will tell you this if tomorrow. I could love my wife Love God and love my neighbor with all of my heart without fail. I promise you my life would be better if I didn't get. That sounds amazing yet. So please know. That, that is not a reality that I am trying to get out of I. Do not want to hate my wife from for hate. My neighbor or hate God I. Don't want to rent head I. don't want to run headlong into got and here's. Why because Jesus is that much more beautiful than sin. So, this is where I think. If we'RE GONNA, wind the conversation down. This is where I think this has to go in that. It all comes down to motivation. Sir I in reality. oftentimes fight the desire to obey Satan to obey my desire or to obey your flesh. Which is ultimately might've lash right. The temptations to I'm GonNa Satisfy Myself Ingred in lust and fame in pride. And the Gospel and the church is designed to say no. No, no Jesus is more beautiful, more glorious, more desirable and I would say you know. We had this conversation between the difference. Jimmy our joking about the difference between a battle and a war. The war will not be one until you die turned the battle. It is a battle every single day you will battle to say. I'm either going to pursue the glory and trust in Jesus in the midst of my frailty right or I'm going to give in and I will warn you if you try and do that on your own outside the church right more than likely. You'RE GONNA. Fail apart from the means, yeah, that God has given. I know. I was having a conversation with with some people after church this past Sunday and thinking about. Some of the things that we've brought up. The reality of of sin, and just how people have been burned by the church. And a lot of that has to do with things. We're talking about here. and. I made the statement the lack of frailty, a lack a lack of honesty. You can't be frail. A lack of an understanding of the fallen human condition in the miseries associated with it, yeah. And this kind of facade that everybody constructs, and all the things we've talked about. You can struggle with respectable sins. Sure yeah, right so we were just talking about these things being burned by the church. We're talking about our church and our hopes for it, and and I was making the statement that because of this understanding of the human heart, and the fallen human condition, and all these things that I am not surprised like you said just a moment ago Jimmy. I'm not surprised when people come to me and confess sins, even even some things that are pretty heinous. My we've had multiple pastures publicly who have been even recently? Yeah, that's true and we always pastors in our respective churches have dealt with things that are break breaking in, but might sincerely just because of this theological framework in those moments when I'm sitting across the table from somebody, and I can see them squirming in their seat. They won't make eye contact with me and they are convinced that what they are about to say to me is going to absolutely just like burn the village. Now it's right. In that moment. This kind of theological framework allows me to lean in. To that person. In and just say like brother sister. I'm sorry like this is terrible. This is hard. And Sin Israel and the I'm here. We can talk like Christ is. You're listening, and and instead of the line is long yet, exactly I. We say this all the time like you're. You're talking about like if you only knew how bad I am, we say look with all due respect. Take a number and get in line. You're just you're just like the rest of yeah, and so we're not our posture that. That moment is not to like recoil and push away from the table in horror. It's to lean in and love and come alongside, and and have that honest conversation, not excusing not excusing it at all a where it's like an offer slope, and honestly in that moment that person does not need me or you guys to come in from the top turnbuckle and pilot on. They know it's terrible. They know it's wrong. Well guys, obviously, we're not done here now. There's a lot more that we could say in this conversation and so we're going to do that now. WE'RE GONNA move over to the members podcast, and so if you're interested in participating in that conversation, listening in, we would encourage you to go over to Theo cast dot org where you can look into becoming a total access member where you'll be able to partake of all the content that we have therefore members, and we look forward to seeing you over there. Thank you for listening to cast. If you'd like to contact us or find out additional information about our membership, you can do so at Theo cast dot org.

Jimmy Bueller Theo Paul John US murder Isaiah Noah Baptist Church Justin Today North Carolina Christ community church Asheville Jesus Warren John Moffatt Community Bible Church Spring Woolmer Wilmer Nashville basketball
What the World Needs Now

Theocast - Reformed Theology

48:31 min | 2 months ago

What the World Needs Now

"Hi, this is John and today on Theo cast justin and I are going to solve the world's problems. That is we're going to tell you what the greatest need everyone has in the world today I know big topic, but we think it's going to be helpful and in the members podcast, we have a discussion around who are the most difficult people to live with hope enjoy the conversation stated, hey, guys says a quick reminder if you'd like to join theo cast and helping other. People find rest in Christ. A simple way of doing that is simply by living us a review on itunes or your favorite podcast APP. You can also leave reviews on all of our books. There are available at Amazon Dot Com, and if you haven't started following us on twitter instagram or facebook yet, that's a great way to take our content and then share it with your friends and family to learn more about how to support Theo casts simply visit the cast dot org slash give. ME. Welcome to Theo casts encouraging where he pilgrim's rest in price conversations about Christian life from a reform perspective, your host today around the microphone is Justin Purdue Pastor of Covenant Baptist Church North Carolina Ashville North Carolina. That is for those of you that are interested and myself John moffatt pastor of grace reformed church in Spring Hill Tennessee. It is good to be with you today are. Jimmy is not able to join with us but it's good to be with Justin. My last podcast recorded was without Justin and this time it's without Jimmy one of these days we'll actually next week we'll all be together here in Nashville Tennessee to record a special new class coming out to we'll leave that they're just that mystery, but you're gonna WanNa, hear it so. It's going to be with you. Good to be with you too. Manam. Getting back in the saddle here knocking the rust off. We took some time off. All of us did in the month of July. And I was not with you and Jimmy last week I was away with family and excited to have the band back together in music city next week. Yes silence. Good. The whether it is right now because it's like a high eighty one and like sixty three and four at night. It's pretty sweet. Now hope the weather's good to now it's good to be back around the Mike Man, and Excited to to have a good conversation with you today. which you PROCON, brother, some of what you like and don't like I'm serious curious. I have no idea what you're going to say I know. So, this is this is. Going to apply to maybe I don't know three or four people out there that this may resonate with. I don't assume this is going to be a very broad wide ranging wide reaching procon but I feel strongly about it, and so here we go at the risk of sounding absolutely ridiculous. I am pro strawberries. So I love strawberries one of my favorite fruits and the whole world and I am I don't feel the need to explain that I think people that have eaten strawberries enlighten understand what I'm saying. My Con- is anything artificially strawberry flavored. I do not worse. It is terrible. So John Maybe, you're one of the three or four people that resonates with what I'm saying. I. Think it's strawberry flavored. Pretty much anything is not good. The only exception I might make his ice cream but like strawberry flavored fruit candy is terrible. Now strawberry flavored like you know like freezer pop popsicles terrible the strawberry starbursts or the worst. I could just go on and on and on and so. Of My teeth hurt the strawberry ones yeah. They're like it's like, how is it that one of my favorite fruits in the world the artificial flavors just absolutely. Terrible. There it is I I. Don't know. I'm not really coming out of the gates hot with my procon popped into my mind this morning and I thought you know I I feel very strongly about this. This is something I'm passionate about and Michelle with the people. I will say that bananas can do that too artificially flavored banana stuff. Yeah not. Disagree with you you know but I will coconut though like my wife's bind these coconut popsicles and they are and you're rushing them Yeah. In the summer we go on the porch all the kids will grab them at the end of the day and go sit on the porch and he popsicles and drip all over ourselves. It's you know sticky fingers on Sticky John John Are you saying that your greatest need at the end of the day is a cooking pops it is it is the greatest need at the end of the day is having a popular man. Well. That leads us into a that wasn't as cheesy as a transition as we've had in the past we're going to. Ramp up the cheesiness here. Man. So today's podcast is one that I think will resonate with many definitely resonates with Justin and I because we're both senators and we struggle at is true everyone that's listening to this podcast. It's with the current climate in the in the world and I would say, I don't even think you know now that we're talking just in I would say it kind of has been this way since like Adam and. Eve. it. A minute. Relationships have always taken a beatdown when it comes to two centers living with each other or multiple centers in family living with each other and then when you have to live and you're in the as you said earlier, Justin as the rhythms of life get thrown off and what you normally do and we have coping make you know we have all we all Copen mechanisms. There we go where if it's a gym or sports or you know gatherings or or going to a movie, we do these things kind of break up the rhythm of life and with the frailty of life, and then all of that is ripped away. And people are now left with their own sin and their own struggle and what ends up happening we become hyper selfish, and we go so introspective and we looked to what makes us feel good and what satisfies us, and then of course, what do you do? How do you? How do you get rid of this anger? Would you give rid of it on other people and social media is one where I've seen people put things on social media that I've never I thought they would never say that or tweet dad or video that and I don't know if that's been your experience you're just like, wow that. That surprised me that they put that out there. Sherman, I mean, you see a lot of stuff happening right now I mean broadly society. There's a lot of tension and stress and strain on I think most everybody and it not that the tension and stress strain creates something in people that wasn't there. To begin with what's right. These stresses and strains intentions are they are opportunities occasions for? Our sinful nature and the corruption of our flesh to start doing terrible things and in particular to to start doing terrible things to other people, and that's most often going to be the people that were closest to. So that's it's GonNa be you know our our spouses, our kids people were. This is a Christian podcasts were talking to to people I presume who? You know are probably members of churches and things. So I mean people that you're in church with that you see regularly and and you're trying to like. Live with one another and you start to wound and bludgeon each other. You know in times like now we do it all the time anyway. But then when we're all struggling and hurting and reeling and rhythms or disrupted in the like it, just it's like throwing gasoline on the fire. And and it's interesting. John we were talking before we hit record about. Just all the different kinds of things you hear from all kinds of sources in the church and outside the church in terms of what we really need. Like what is the prescription that will cure? What ails us what will fix this this issue? And you get a thousand different answers. and. Yeah I don't know I'm. Kind of curious I think I know what you're going to say. But how would you respond to that in terms of what is it that we need and what is it that? That will actually bring some relief some hope some light into into these relational dynamics and into some of these struggles that were describing. Will you walk into the well I you know either you log into the church or for those who've been able to reopen you walk back in to the outdoor indoor church and you hear a lot of. You know the diagnosis is correct a lot of pastors and ministries are diagnosing ministries to be people are suffering. They're hurting they're angry they're upset depression levels are at a all time. High marital issues are all time high you know you and I are both talking about how we've been trying to care and love for people who you know are struggling I heard David's all saying his podcast this week that he knows a five couples that are very close to them. All of them are going through a divorce I mean it's just it's The it's it's very sad I'm walking through a couple of families in my church with just you know heartaches, disappointments and frustrations and and how do you how do you care for these people and you know what What discourages me is that the solutions being offered they're not even bandits and you know it's like it's like here. Here's some tylenol that's going to get you through the next maybe two hours. But then when it's over, it's just going to be worse because it's faster and you really didn't deal with the problem yeah. I would even argue brother some of the even worse than that I mean some of it is worse than treating the symptoms I mean. It's some of the stuff that suggested it actually just on the face of it makes it worse. And Yeah, you're right. So. What we're offered is either self help you know here's how to help yourself and their solutions on. You know these aren't bads. You know they're not wrong and they could relieve you know exercise think about ways to get out of the House and Walker. Here's a good reading plan. Here's a good book to read in all of those things. If you're not a Christian, I mean, what what other options do you have? You know it's like if you're not going to believe in Christ. Your options are to try and make it work as best you can. But we're here to do as the castaways does is kind of peel back the layers and really look at the issue beneath the issue you know most relational issues when it comes down to in two centers, find themselves in conflict whether it's in a work marital or familiar relationship. At at the core of it, all all problems all conflicts are the result of sin. Whether someone whether someone you know was inconsiderate or impatient or didn't respond correctly or is better they've held onto being mistreated, and so all of that you just fasters and builds up, and then when you tell someone you know your spiritual disciplines, your your the way in which you approach your pro-life, your Baba reading all of those. What it's focusing on is if I make myself better. I can make the situation better. So what do we ended up doing we become self-focused and when circumstances don't work out like your kids come in and they bug you while you're in the midst of you and your Jesus Time or or your wife doesn't want to get on board with your spiritual path or your husband doesn't want to get on board with your spiritual journey and you're you're trying to drag them along. This is this is this is what people are feeling. The frustration of I want this relationship to go better I want this pressure to go away. I, want there to be resolve and yet there isn't And? We're GONNA come in and I think point to something that is not rocket science. It is It is not as as one of the guys in my church say it's not it's not rocket surgery. And It is actually going to be so basic it's it's it's going to be hard to believe that the one thing every relationship in the world needs is this one thing. and. We aren't going to sell books on. It won't be a best seller Justin unwanted just you know tell you can't buy that new summer home. It's not gonNA work out now it's disappointing. It's disappointing JP. What what does scripture tell us is the number. One thing we need. One. In our relationship with God and number two and our relationship with other people what would be your answer that. The answer to that is just Not To bury the lead is forgiveness. and. We are going to talk about forgiveness in our need for e another word absolution to have our guilt removed right so. Like forgiveness absolution comes from God to us and that kind of vertical sense. But then that has everything that works itself out horizontally in our relationships with other people. And so yeah, I think one observation even just kick off this conversation about forgiveness. I think it's obvious to anybody who's WHO's observant as we look around broadly in the church and outside of the church. That there is a demand for. Atonement there is a demand for forget like for reconciliation even. There is a demand for all kinds of things in various kinds of relationships all over the place. And yet we live in a culture where forgiveness and absolution are nowhere to be found. And when you constantly demand atonement. So this is a very law kind of economy. Our listeners are familiar with US Talking About Law and Gospel and in grace and things like this. In a law economy, there is this constant loop of here's the law you transgress it. Now there's judgment. And you need to make this right you need to atone for it you need to make reparation for it. It's CETERA and In that sort of an economy where there is no forgiveness and there is no absolution. It it is a not only a just a miserable place be there is no way to move forward in relationship. Can't be done. And so the hope I think what we aim to do today is talk some I mean a little bit about the vertical piece of the forgiveness that we need from God but then really spend our time talking about forgiveness and absolution as we extend it to other people and how vital that is for every relationship that we have and how if it's missing. It it makes relating to one another miserable and frankly impossible. In in a fallen world. Try So, we think about our relationship to God, the one, the one requirement God puts on us when he says if you want to be forgiven. And then you think about this requirement which is. It this is what makes the Gospel preposterous. It's what makes it a stumbling block to the self righteous because God says to be forgiven. All you must do is ask. That's the requirement. All you must do is ask to be forgiven and the Father Roy take all of your sins and remove them as far as the East is from the West as Isaiah says, he throws it behind his back and he sees them no more. It's in the depths email. And to God the. One. Ad That's the requirement. So the thing what ends up happening is in a relationship, one will not offer forgiveness if one feels as if they have the upper hand so I'm not going to offer even if like for it. Right why would I ever forgive you because of what you have done for me you don't deserve forgiveness. You deserve to feel my wrath and my anger you deserve to sit and think about all that you have done. You need to you need to feel just how much you violated me how much you have hurt me you cannot repay if you give me enough money if you give me enough. Fame or wealth or whatever you want to give me. You cannot restore the time emotion and how you violated me and so you do not deserve forgiveness therefore, I will not give it to you. That's this is how we treat people and then you think about the god of the universe I mean the way in which we're doing some studying on a covenant theology we're going to be putting this out soon and one of the thoughts that help me about relation my relationship with God is that God is the king of the earth I mean he's the Creator he's the founder he's the sustaining. So He's King and he decides how you he relate to him in this king relationship and the Kim relationship is you love and serve and worship me. And no one has ever loved and worshipped and served God ever. They've only loved and served in worship that may baby tipped they're out to him but that's not what he said. He said you're to love worship. and. Obey me and we if we think about the constant way, our life violates God. God has every right. No, you're exactly right now that that our sins against an infinite eternal and holy God. Are so much greater in scope and scale than our sins against one another could ever be. And yet if God because my sin against you John is not an assault on your holiness. 'cause you don't have any holiness drive my sin against you John is not you didn't create me. You you you don't have any claim on me. The way that God does in that he he made me and he made the world and it's all his and he is he is completely good and upright and true, and he is the father of lights right? There's no shadow of turning with within him at all and and he is the one against whom we have sinned. You know and I'm thinking I'm looking at Psalm thirty two. Five verses from Psalm Thirty, two, I think beautifully illustrate. Just our our posture before God and this this whole forgiveness piece, David writes these words to one of my favorite songs. So I'm thirty two blessed is the one who's transgression is forgiven whose sin is covered. Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts no iniquity not that there isn't any but that God doesn't count it against him an in who spirit there is no deceit and he's GonNa explain what he means they're no deceit meaning. You confess your sin and you acknowledge your sin verse three of some thirty two when I kept silent my bones wasted away. Three, my groaning all day long for day and night your hand was heavy upon me and my strength was dried up as by the heat of summer. I wasn't confessing my sin. Then he says I acknowledged my send to you and I did not cover my iniquity I said, I will confess my transgressions to the Lord and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Beautiful just blessed is the man who sins are forgiven whose sins or covered, and against whom the Lord does not count any iniquity. This is great need before God. In this has everything to do with our relationship with other people. I'm mindful. Of Verse last thing I'll say about this in terms of use said it before what is the requirement to use your word? Of of like if you're going to be forgiven by God, what's the requirement that you ask for it? You know I I might I agree and I might even phrase it a different way it's it's to it's to see and feel your need of forgiveness right which would prompt you to to ask for forgiveness from God in in a verse from the him come Ye sinners poor and needy it goes this way. Let, not conscience make you linger nor of fitness fondly, dream fitness before God all the fitness he requires is to feel your need of him. You know it's like man all the fitness the only thing I need to do in order to be fit before God and to come to him is to feel my need of Christ and to know that Christ is the only one in whom I can find forgiveness and absolution. That's our posture before God we are really guilty we have blown it. As the day is long, we have blown it, and God is gracious and offers forgiveness and absolution through his son. Right. you know the woman washing the feet of Jesus and she's being criticized by all of the Pharisees who Jesus as having dinner with and what what does he say at the end of his story at the end of illustration he says. Those who have been forgiven much love much right worth. So he looks at the woman and says. Her she gets sheet she understands her posture before me is that she has nothing to offer and she's washing the feet of Jesus she's using I mean it's all of this. She's she suck I don't care I don't care what anyone else thinks. This man is offering me that which no one else can, and that is to forgive forgive what I am in his eyes to forgive what I am in the eyes of God one other story I think is fascinating is is look five when the they bring the paralytic. Man. before Jesus, through the roof. And they the Jesus, of course, the man is now before him and everyone's watching him and it it says that in the beginning Luke records that Jesus has the power to heal says it says it. So it's interesting. and. Then what does Jesus say to the man? Your sins are forgiven which the whole room abrupt how dare you? How dare work first of all, who gives you the authority to do that? and which is the illustration that Jesus says if I have the power to heal, it means I also have the power to forgive sins and he says, would it be easier for me to say? Take up the bed and walk than it is to say for the point of it was what this man needed was not healing. What this man needed was for fitness were, which is which every single pharisee sitting in that room to needed forgiveness they needed it but they they couldn't see that Jesus is the one who could offer it, and so when when we think about our standing before God most relationships, it's easy to hold something over them when you feel as if they are superior to you, they are beneath you. Nuclear because of what I'm sorry inferior. That's right because of what they have what they have either done to someone else or what they have done to you what right what the Gospel does and what the law does. Is. It absolutely flattens when it comes down and it takes everybody's spiritual hierarchy and the way the lodges crushes it flow, but he has the high ground. That's right. uh-huh. None you know when you're standing next to another center and you're like look, you're my head is above you and then you walk over to the Lord and you realize that His Holiness and righteousness and requirements and the way in which you have violated him. It's a speck of dust compared to the mountain that you in that you have violated. Well, this is where we must begin most people struggle with bitterness and anger and unwillingness to forgive because they don't understand the. The forgiveness that was needed between. The only relationship that matters in the universe, which is between you and a holy God. We're excited to announce that we have a new free e book available at our website called faith versus faithfulness a primer on rest, and we the host put together to explain the difference between emphasizing wants faith in Christ versus emphasizing once faithfulness to Christ and how one to rest how the other often to a lack of assurance and you can get this at Theo cast dot org slash primer and if you've been encouraged By, what you've been hearing it Theo cast would ask you to help partner with us. You can do that by joining our total access membership. That's our monthly membership that gives you access to all of our material that we've produced over the last four years or simply by donating to our ministry you can do that by going to our website. Theo. CAST OUT ORG. We hope that you enjoy the rest of the conversation. Yes. So the question could be asked, what is it that fuels drives and motivates our forgiveness of one another. Right. At the I'm called to forgive my brothers and sisters that's fine that uncommanded to do it. But what is it that will drive me and fuel me and motivate me in that like forgiving people who have really sinned against me and forgiving people who have wounded me and hurt me like it's been painful. It's been hard and I'm gonNA forgive them. Okay. Well, what what's going to help me what's going to drive me to do that and it is what we've just been talking about it is The forgiveness of God in Christ Jesus like my goodness how how? Gracious how Merciful How patient has Christ been with me and that helps me be merciful and gracious and patient, and it helps me forgive my brother or sister or my friend or my coworker whoever it is my spouse when when she when he sins against me, you know and I I mean that's just a great reminder to us in the church that in dealing with one another in bearing with one another, it is good to remember. How God and Christ is forgive us how impatient Jesus has been with us, and then also to remember other things that we talk about on the regular about how we all have struggles and and battles that we didn't sign up for you know, and that's just as true for other people as it is for us but in thinking about forgiving others. We are so prone to withhold forgiveness like you're. You're talking about that a minute ago John how we have all these criteria you know that we impose upon other people and like we have this list of demands, not that we right out but that are in our minds and hearts well, if you do these things and if you jump through these hoops and if you demonstrate adequate this or if you do enough of that then okay. Yeah maybe I'll forgive you. That is not a a godly posture that is not a humble posture that is not what we were called to in Christ Jesus you were talking about luke five, luke seventeen is helpful when it comes to some of these these things that were discussing, I'll read the first few verses of Luke. Chapter Seventeen. and He Jesus. said to his disciples temptations to send sure to come. But woe to the one through whom they come it would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were cast into the sea than he should 'cause one of these little ones to sin. But then these to these words in verses three and four of luke seventeen pay attention to yourselves if your brother's sins rebuke him and he repents forgive him and if he sends against US seven times in the day and turns to you seven times saying I repent you must forgive him it's I mean astonishing words if your brother sends rebuke him, and if he repents forgive him full stop and if he sends against you seven times in seven, of course, we know it's the number of completion and perfection. Jesus doesn't literally mean seven times. He means if he sends against you a bunch of times in the day and each time turns saying I repent you must forgive him and I'm thinking to myself this. This is a controversial. That's like the grenade is on the table Jesus pulls the pin walks out of the room in it's. Because we so often in thinking about forgiveness, we will talk about what? Like well, we need to evaluate. The sincerity of somebody's repentance we need to value is there enough fruit of repentance here. For us to really forgive the transgression. Have they done enough? Right. And I'm just like man Christ blows that up if your brother or sister looks to you and says I'm repenting forgive me you must forgive each other. And We would do so well to remember this in our marriages, we would do so well to remember this in our parenting we would do so well to remember this in the church you as we relate to one another if your brother or sister sins against you and asked to be forgiven, you forgive him or her. Right. It's the only way ord man. There's a really strong statement that I know that often. It can be hard to digest when Jesus says in Matthew. Six, right under the under the prayer. Give us this day our daily bread forgive us our debts. As we have forgiven our debtors and lead us not agenda but delivers from evil for if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others their trespasses neither will your father forgive you your trespasses so for which. I mean that is. I should knock you back a moment to think Oh, God doesn't take this. Lightly I mean this is This is a weighty situation and I think it's a weighty situation because of the comparison he's saying how dare you not offer forgiveness after being forgiven? So much. No, you will never. Know Human in the history of the world will ever offer the level of forgiveness that a center has received from God. It cannot happen because you cannot be violated in the way in which God has been violated and I know it's really hard for it's simple mind to wrap our heads around that because there have been people. Who have been hurt and violated in ways that? Are almost unspeakable I can't even mention them on the podcast because it would be offensive to potentially a of children or families that are that are listening to this but I understand that and I, have counseled people who says but John You don't understand the years in the years in the years and years of suffering that I've gone through and I don't disagree I don't disagree with them at all that that is it's horrendous and it's horrible and it should never happen and that it creates anger in me and there are times I have physically wanted to hurt the person who violated them that I have wanted to show retribution and justice upon those people I feel all of that. But yet you have to understand God has felt that. So much. so He created a place called Hell God is felt that so much so about you that it said, he crushed his son. So instead of taking his anger out on you, he he took it out on his son as as your substitute and God says listen if I have forgiven you so much and the violation that you have caused me. You too can forgive and it, and the thing is it's not sometimes we hear this and it's almost comes to us in an angry voice and I don't think so I think it's as a father who's who has child on their knee and he's loving them in gently whispering into the Erin saying. I love you and I have given you so much and I have set you free from the bondage that is called. An, an unwillingness to forgive I've set you free from that and because of that and turn, you can actually be set free from the. You have of what this person has done to you. You can be set free from it. To keep this little thread going. If you would ask the average person in a church in our American context. Like what is it that? Is. The key distinguishing marks of a Christian. I think. I think that. There were. A couple of things I'm GONNA mention in a moment or not anywhere near the top of the list and they might not be. On the list at all I mean typically, you're going to get answers about a abstaining from certain kinds of sins will the distinguishing thing about a Christian is that he or she doesn't do ABC Or Xyz and then you know maybe in certain circles, you might get you know certain. Faithfulness in terms of things that people are doing. But oftentimes missing from that list is I think the number one thing according to our savior is our love for one another within I think you could also add in there make a strong argument for a distinguishing mark of a Christian is that he or she is ready and eager to extend forgiveness to people who have wronged them. And so. Our love for each other and our eagerness and willingness to forgive you know I mean this is like the language of Paul you know we we pray and we work for the unity of spirit in the bond of peace were eager to seek reconciliation. In one of the things that we tell people all the time in our membership classes at our church. Is that look if you decide to come to see and if you become a member, one thing we can promise you is that you will be offended probably ensured order you will be offended by somebody you will somebody will wrong you somebody will say something somebody do something that will it will offend you in the end. So that's not a question. The question is, what do we do with that and how do we? How do we deal with with those things you were you were talking about Matthew Chapter Six Matthew Eighteen Jesus tells another parable that. Definitely has a little bit of sauce on it. The parable of the unforgiving servant you know where I mean many will be familiar with that parable where. There's a servant who has a large debt to his master and he pleads with the master to forgive him the debt that he owes in the Master Does the master forgives his debt. So there's that kind of absolution your debt your guilt is taken away and and you're forgiven. But then that servant who has had this massive debt forgiven goes out into the streets and encounter someone who owes him by comparison, a very small amount of money. And that? person that person's debtor the the servants debt or says, well, could you please forgive me my dad and the the unforgiving servant does not and demands every penny you'll pay at all or or you're going to be thrown in in prison, and that's what ends up happening with the master hears about it, and then chastises that unforgiving servant and says to him you wicked servant I forgave you all that debt because you pleaded with me and should you not have had mercy on your fellow servant as I had mercy on you and then the master ends up throwing this unforgiving servant in in jail and Jesus says that. So also where my heavenly father did every one of you if you don't forgive your brother you. So again, like we we will talk a lot in the Church about about faithfulness and obedience, and there are a lot of sermons preached with a real exacting threatening tone. But oftentimes, the the things that are talked about most seriously are not love for one another and they're not forgiveness but yet Jesus talks and very strong times about these things in like we need to take seriously this call to to love and forgiveness to mercy like we we should be merciful with one another and not only is that just A. A critical thing with respect to our understanding of God's forgiveness toward us. It it matters in every conceivable way in our relationships and like a pragmatic level if we want our relationships to be able to function honestly in a fallen world, there has to be mercy and forgiveness because we're all centers we wrong each other. And I I mean we were talking a lot about marriage before we hit record and I'm thinking about my own marriage. I mean the things that have been most helpful to me, and my wife are the tones of grace and mercy compassion and forgiveness that that God is working and building in our home. True. Without it I can't conceive of how of how this would work. John's right you know. Yeah I don't I don't know with my personality, my wife's personality how much we clash if it wasn't for the forgiveness of God towards me and you my heart. In I don't not sure what our marriage would look like I completely what you're saying. Yeah and all three of us all three hose we've talked about the struggle of merit sometimes. People think that a pastor's home is like you know sterile white. Everything somehow exempt from that's right. We don't have disagreements and arguments, and we don't disappoint our wives and our wives don't disappoint us I live in constant disappointment and my wife lives in constant disappointment. But what gets US through the day? What gets us through the days it we? We're both centers in need of God's grace and we must extend grace. I mean, this is a Fijian's for thirty two. It says be be combine to one another tenderhearted why because or and forgiving one another as God in Christ has forgiven you. So we as we look at the forgiveness, we've received from God it should cause us to be kind and tender and patient because God has been kind. It literally says the the kindness of God is designed is meant this is Romans three to lead to repentance, and when we see how kind God has been says intern, you need to do the same now I do want to say a couple of things. because I know that there are many who will be listening to this who are struggling with forgiveness and I I I, need to clarify in scripture. The Bible, does not collapse trust. and. Restoration. With forgiveness don't don't confuse those so to forgive someone means that you will no longer going to hold over their head how they have violated you and you're going to set them free in their. And their guilt. So they've been set free from the guilt but that doesn't mean. So for instance, if if a pastor Is goes against his calling and he violates in any way shape or form dishonesty stealing you know whatever the church can offer him forgiveness and shut not hold him guilty for that Senate but that does not mean that they should trust him still in store him right? Right. Restore him to a level of ministry. Again. I I. would say this is true in a relationship. There are fortunately because of sin marital relationships that are abusive and have been abusive verbally or physically, and that an order for the one who. had been abused to get past that they need to offer forgiveness, not hold that guilt over them but the does not mean that they need to restore that relationship because it may not be the safest to do that and nor does that forgiveness never means trust and I've had to say this in relationships before with people where I say I have forgiven you but I do not trust you in for the sake of my family, we're going to need to keep a distance until they're the level of trust can possibly be restored. Will Not only does forgiveness not mean that that trust is completely restored forgiveness does not mean that everything will look like it looked before the sin was committed. That's right I mean that's that's just has to be clarified I mean. So you can forgive someone and and decide that the best thing for both of us in a fallen world like before the resurrection is that our relationship looks different than it used to. Try that's an important clarification to make and I'm glad that you you brought that up John. Because that is something that we deal with all the time in in counseling and in pastoring people and the same time circling back to our major theme of the day there is there is hardly ever. A, time it in particular when there's relational conflict and this most often in the church be frank relational conflict just. Most pointedly occurs within marriages. There is never a situation in which I've been in in counseling a couple when you don't walk out of the room thinking a couple of things like this would be so much better one if they were each more mindful of their own send than they were the sin of their spouse. And to if if there was an a a a genuine sincere ability to extend forgiveness to one another. Because it. It really is like if we want to talk about functional pragmatic. Perspective from functional pragmatic perspective. If there is no forgiveness extended the you cannot move forward. You will forever be stuck in in just this quagmire of bitterness and resentment and animosity in vitry all it will be your life if you are unable to to forgive and again we go back to well, you're sitting there and you're thinking I'm hurting I'm been wounded I'm I'm indignant what happened to me was wrong and and we say we hear you and we understand that and so what's what's the motivation? Why would you ever forgive? Consider Christ and His mercy to you and how much he has forgiven you and that is that is what? Will be the driver in the motivator for you to forgive other people who have really wrong you. Right well, holding onto the bitterness this is a phrase that I think it was Oh. I'm trying to think who said it, but I'll think of it in a moment but drinking poison hoping that will affect. The person that you hate is in San that that's what bitterness is is to think that if I drink this, it's going to hurt them and being holding onto something doesn't hurt. We think it's going to hurt them. We think okay that person's hurt me. So I'm going to be angry and bitter and mean towards them and that's all I'm going to repay them. But it it can never cause the damage that they've caused to you. I mean unless you end up just exact same thing to them that they did to you and how that is that is A. Horrible way to live because you're in constant bondage the moment you give retribution how many movies that are out there weren't someone is going to get revenge. They're going to have the revenge and then once they have it. They're empty there's nothing and now there's a double weight of guilt, right? So they feel guilty for holding onto the bitterness. They now feel guilty for acting retribution and they're still don't feel any sense of right. It's still all wrong and the only way to have that sense of right is to be set free from the burden of holding that over someone and th that's the this is scripture. This is why there's so much that's commanded as far as forgiveness because the only way to be set free from that bondage that you have and it is. Bondage I've seen people who live in immense depression and they are addicted to appease the way that they cope with us as addictions, and so they're addicted and they're holding onto this bitterness and the moment you can feel be set free from that because of the forgiveness you have received, you actually can move on but years and years and years of holding onto. This is like you've already tried this it doesn't work. So the one solution that God does you which is to forgive actually does work and you will be fully restored and you will have full. Restoration when you get into the new, the the new earth with a new body and you were restored. But until then we have to only receive that which we have now, which is forgiveness and give organise. Amen so I want to frontload what I'm about to read it. I, don't want to be misunderstood to pursue justice is a good thing. and. So we should avail ourselves of the means that we have in the world whether that societally speaking or or something else to pursue justice. That's true. But when it comes to how we relate to one another, we have to be honest and and just aware enough to realize that they're going to be a million little and sometimes more significant ways that we will be wronged. There is no really systematic way to pursue justice with respect to them and to your point if we live our entire lives thinking that I am going to avenge myself. Against these people who have hurt me. It first of all, it's slavery and bondage and it will produce nothing good. But God tells us to do something altogether different. This Romans twelve, eighteen and nineteen. Paul exhorts us it possible so far as it depends on, you live peaceably with all. Beloved never avenge yourselves. But leave it to the wrath of God for it is written. Vengeance is mine. I will repay says the Lord. It it's we have to trust God in. So many of these things to to be content to say Okay I've been wronged here there really is not a lot of recourse that I haven't even if I were to pursue it what good's going to come of it I'm going to forgive this person and I'm going to trust God? I'd. I'm going to to trust him I'M GONNA CAST my burdens I- anxieties upon him I'm GonNa. Pray to him and talk to him about how I've been wounded and I'm going to trust him in his character that he will make this right. And and that that justice will roll from Heaven and that either Christ will have atoned for this or this person will bear this iniquity forever and I will let God sort this out and in as much as it depends upon me I will forgive and I will live peaceably with others that's or call to as as Christians yeah. We're GONNA move over the members podcast and in their one of the things that's GonNa come up is We don't want you to be confused in thinking that. Once you forgive someone than all is well and all is set free and there's no scars and there's no, you'll be happy now. It doesn't work like that and forgiving someone wants you may say to that person verbally I forgive you. But you may need to learn how to forgive them every single day and what has looked like and how do we do that We'll talk about that in the members podcasts for those of you that are new first of all, thank you for listening. We're we're. We hope this was encouraging to you. The way in which we support our ministry and continue to produce resources is through our support membership. We have people who support US monthly and we'd like to try and give them some extra material for supporting us. So you can go over to our website, Theo cast out work and look at our membership. There's just different ways in which you can support us, and that helps continue to spread the gospel of rest around the world. So thank you for your support and members will see you over there. We'll see what? Can You

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Welcome to Theocast  NEW 2019

Theocast - Reformed Theology

20:16 min | 1 year ago

Welcome to Theocast NEW 2019

"<music> and welcome to the cast encouraging weary pilgrims to rest in christ conversations about the christian life from a reformed perspective <unk> our hosts today are justin purdue pastor of covenant baptist church in asheville north carolina jimmy bueller pastor of christ community church in wilmer minnesota and i'm john moffatt pastor of community bible church in spring hill tennessee. Today is a little unique episode. Jimmy what you're talking about what we're doing episode. The euro today is what we affectionately call episode zero. It's where we get to help the listener understand who we are what we're about sort of the theological grid by which we see and understand things and so today on the podcast you'll be able to get a really foundational view. Do a theo cast so justin. You wanna kick off yeah happy to bro so here at the cast. Our tagline is encouraging weary pilgrims to rest in christ and we are sincere about that. We really do believe that. Jesus is the point of the bible that the bible is not just a collection of stories. It's certainly certainly not <hes> a collection of moral fables and things like that. It's not a handbook for godly living. It is the story of god's great redemptive emptive work how he planned in eternity past to save a people and how god the son who took on flesh jesus christ came to accomplish our redemption and we understand that he's accomplished everything that's necessary for our salvation and so we believe that jesus is enough and that the fundamental battle of the christian life is to trust and rest and hope in christ completely yeah and so that's what we're going to be pointing people to always here on the cast. I think that's an an interesting topic because as you think about this nobody would really say in their church that she's isn't the points. This isn't that unless oh truly jesus isn't from the point right. If you ask any pastor or any christian you know what's your church about you know by and large they would probably say it's about jesus visa so perhaps we should flush out what we really mean right. You know because everybody will say that sir. I think the apple it's it's more about the application absolutely so if you sit down with anybody who is trying to be true to the text in other words the reading the verse there explaining the verse now it comes to that famous part in a sermon or a book book were there what applying the verse and over time in the history of evangelical when we do this a lot in the podcast will start pointing out where we have been psychologically ecologically trained to view the bible as a handbook for the christian life right so we look at david and we look at davis decisions whether they be good or bad and and we say here's how to make good or bad decisions that are based on the life of david and the point of the passage is basically morality how to be better out to not do that and in the end it has nothing to do with jesus so even though say it's about jesus. It's really not the i couldn't agree more brosseau you hear many sermons women's in evangelical circles. Some of it is just morality like you said some of it is helpful advice. Here's how to improve this this how to be better at that and the thing is that in so many of those context. You don't need jesus for any of them now right so you've told me all of these things that might be good. They might be helpful but where's christ there. Why do i need jesus for that. Whereas for us we're always wanting to point the believer to christ as your alternate hope. Your confidence always absolutely jimmy. Perhaps it would be helpful to the listener to say really what we are focusing on on as not when we look at scripture it's not what do we do. Try rather it's what has been done in christ and we use this phrase a lot lot. It's we call it a redemptive historic framework or understanding of the bible sir and justin explain when we say that just in like a simple sentence. How can someone walk away going. Whoa what does that mean yeah the redemptive historical framework of the bible. We've already alluded to some of this. It's the fact that the bible is about god's plan of redemption accomplished pushed through jesus christ now and so when we come to any passage of scripture the question is where does this text stand in relation to jesus and we understand understand the entire bible in light of that framework right so that so the question that has to be well what about all of these imperatives or these instructions the the to do list that are in there paul tells you have to do this and we have to do that. How how is that related to jesus and how would you answer that jimmy yeah. I think it's always important to remember the imperatives. Paragraphs of scripture are rooted in the indicative. 's scripture so what are those schumer salinas. Oh by indicative what we mean by that is who got is what god has done for us in christ and so it's the idea of always putting the the horse before the cart if you will because in in basic take evangelical ism the cart typically goes before the horse. How do i do this in order to get to christ right. Yeah and i agree man in in one way it that i often like to frame it. I think we all do is that the christian life is status forward yup meaning st status being justified and and now we talk about howard live or its identity for it we are in christ and now we can talk about these imperatives and what our lives should look like ryan in christ breath you drop it. You drop a kid off at the fair or a kid loses his parents at the fair their security and their status is now. I'm alone and scared and right but but you have a child who knows that their parents walking right behind him and that child has zero worries and what what are they thinking about. What's next yeah and i think that's the christian life where you are often often afraid of what you might do what's required of you what may attack you and when we say status ford were saying there's a sense of security you're resting disting- <hes> with that security of knowing i'm an adopted child have been redeemed and saved and cleanse. Nothing can remove that. There's no condemnation right since since since we having been justified by faith dry we now have peace with god through our lord jesus christ what we're saying absolutely yeah. It's romans eight one. There is therefore now no condemnation asian for the christ jesus so almost every podcast is the going to be exposing you to almost prison where you hold up a prison and there's so many different sides forbidden reflects things that are reflecting christ. We're going to be looking at every area of theology life and the bible and showing you how it shows the the beauty and the glory and the reason why jesus christ can be trusted exca- he is trustworthy yeah yeah so many of you are probably thinking. That sounds great. I'm excited what about that. I actually do know a lot about theology but i still find myself. I do know a lot about the bible. I grew up in christianity. I've been church for many years but i still find myself in despair questioning my assurance mean how it and jimmy how would you help someone like that. Yeah i i would recognize that you know despair and and the christian is a real thing despair in the christian is a real thing the romans seven idea of delighting of god in my in were being but seeing in a war waging with my member so perhaps you've heard the phrases you know. Do you treasure god enough you treasure christ above all things. Are you living your life radically enough missionary and those were famous buzzword sure when i was in bible oh college and kind of circles that i still are absolutely yeah and i know for me personally those things they sound sound good. They sound great. Do i treasure christ. Will obviously i wanna treasure christ. Absolutely i wanna treasure god above all things but i also have a realistic view of myself. Try that. I don't yeah right. I don't wake up naturally treasuring god above all things you know. There's a real important theology within <hes> we can think luther for this. This idea that jimmy's getting at is that yes we've been redeemed cleansed and made new and we have a new heart and we have new desires but we're still center. We still live in a sinful body in a sinful broken world and so there's this battle paul talks about it all the time right the things i don't want to do do i do them. Romans seven glaciers five and that's what leads us to despair right and that there's almost a side of theo cast where we we want to put our hand on your shoulder and say you're not crazy yeah. You're and you're not alone in. You're not the only one who feels this constant. Poll at your soul where you you have the desire to love jesus with all of your being absolutely and yet your your flesh just fights you constantly yeah for sure yeah and so we're really taking up the banner after the reformers. This is what you're alluding to john. We aim to comfort the weary christian and to to come alongside them. I'm an acknowledged that the struggle is real that you're experiencing you are at the same time justified and yet you're still center and so that internal war. It's a new thing for the believer. You didn't have that internal war before you became a christian now. This battle is on your hands and so often in the evangelical world weariness as a result of the system of the whole thing where there's always more to do right things can always be done better and so when as we've alluded to a little bit we're talking about more later her when we're constantly being pointed inward rather than outside of ourselves to christ it ends up putting us in this endless cycle of despair. It's just on loop right where we're just getting crushed and being weighed down by those burdens all the time he had perhaps if you guys have ever seen the movie schindler's list at the end of that movie the main character actor who had devoted a lot of time and energy and resources to helping jews in the holocaust and the one of the famous last scenes as him saying i could've done a little bit more coulda gave a little bit more and i know that there are christians out there that feel this are on the table absolutely absentee arrayed to really voice those things <hes> because a lot of them have been fed and i know we have been fed the idea of the victorious christian in life absolutely the this kind of continuous upward trajectory like this system of constant improvement but i couldn't agree more none of us on our deathbeds <music> are going to be comforted at all with the notions of what we have done. It's like whoa brother look at this. It's like look at look at how you battled san. It's like oh but i could have battled so much more as we could send so much less. I could've loved so much better. No one could ever find comfort in that comfort. It is found in the work of christ in place that could be a false comfort when you lower the standards of requirement relative. Is it right because if you if i if if i don't think this is possible because of the limitations of humanity but if there was a truly away for us to be exposed to all of our send me the we send not even knowing we send so if you compare your good acts of either your intentions for good acts versus all of who you truly are in your sin you you would never want to try and point to will look how well i did look what i've accomplished because you'd be humiliated by the garbage edge that goes along with this and i think this is why it's so important that we say your identity can never be in your own faithfulness in your own obedience right and a lot of the confusion because people will say but john jimmy justin in the bible there are all these commands like jesus says unless you are perfect unless you follow follow me unless you right radically sounds radical unless you ver- sake your mother and father being so guys. How do you hear these law commands and yet you guys are world here in this podcast saying that there might be some confusion so what's the confusion here. It's a mixture really of the law and the gospel delaying the long lost says do this and live so we recognize that right we recognize that there are places in scripture both old and new testament do this and live and you mean live acceptable in the eyes of god absolutely yeah even when christ speaks. You're one of the mistakes i think we make we see where crisis speaking in scripture and we assume because jesus saying it couldn't it's gospel yeah. I'm preaching through the gospel of mark right now and i'm making distinction regularly. You have an n. People's minds to a degree or being exploded floated because that is the assumption jimmy right that we assume that because jesus is speaking it is necessarily gospel. Christ actually speaks more law then he does gospel ospel because he's encountering people in his context who are trusting in themselves that their righteous or they're trusting the fact that they can somehow achieve achieve righteousness through their performance and so then when they come to him and say how can i have eternal life. He tells that we'll do this and you'll have it was he tiller a strong ruler. Exactly that's a great illustration of this law gospel distinction one quick way. I would describe this. That's i think a good formula for people jimmy vardi said part of it law says do this and live the gospel says christ has done it now live in him at riley yeah so that's critical but yeah the rich young ruler illustrates this beautifully because because this this rich young and comes to cry and says hey you know good teacher. How do i inherit eternal. Life in christ says you know why you call me good. Nobody's got alone. We can talk about that another time but he says you know the law says keep the commandments and the young man has done that christ doesn't argue with him say well no you haven't. He then turned the temperature. Try on this young man and he says has okay. We still lack one thing. He gives him this threefold piece. He says sell everything you own. Give it away to the poor and come and follow me and the young man goes away discouraged rich but what has christ done there so often in the evangelical world. I know i heard this so many times. That passage was preached as gospel triton. Give away everything yeah and and follow christ surrender all yeah and follow jesus. That's the good news right which we would say. No that is not what christ is doing. He is dumping the full whole weight of the law on that young man's conscience and it crushes him. Yeah the disciples see this. How did they respond this key. They say jesus who can be saved trite in and he says well with man. It's impossible but with god it's possible absolute rights as you continue to listen to theo cast read our blogs our books. You're you're going to hear us really encapsulated this entire concept that we are we have kind of unfolded for you into a phrase called pie tim. What was the difference between pilot an piety patriotism really is over emphasis on the inward christian life would say faithfulness. It's this focus on what you must do in order to be saved as an acceptable before god. Piety is the exact opposite that piety is good. It's what we'd say holiness. It's this idea of looking at christ being drawn towards christ and then the goal of what would say even in first john where it says when we look at the glory of jesus christ we are transformed sure we set aside which that is preventing us from that it is the transformation of life by the holy spirit of god writing five -solutely try versus pilots ism which is the the the scary apart is. You're gonna start seeing it everywhere. You're gonna start seeing it. Everyone so pilots is really as you think about the individual experience really what you're you're going to see with somebody who is struggling in a pie ticket context or perhaps imperialism themself if they're really honest with themselves. You're going to see a lot of those guilt. Shame inward realities of i'm not measuring up. I'm not doing enough. I'm not praying enough. I'm not meditating on scripture enough and we wanna be careful here. Because what we're not saying is oh you don't have to pray and you don't have to read scripture and you don't have to pursue she holiness but again as you said earlier justin we're doing these things status forward yeah we're we're finding ourselves as as sons as daughters of god yeah and the the thing is there's a fundamental reorientation of the christian life from this perspective where the motivators for obedience radiant the motivators to pursue holiness are completely different at it's like who knew that safety in christ could motivate people yeah towards hauling. It's like well actually. I think god knew that and he's revealed that to us in his word joy and love and gratitude piece propel us forward in the christian life life rather than it being this posture of always scolding people and threatening people toward holiness and again. It's now as pastors and theo cast. We've been doing this for many years of walking people kinda to the edge of pieties them where they're standing on the edge going from pizon into piety or would say from from faithfulness focusing on your own faithfulness leaping into faith. It is a very scary moment to leave <unk>. It's disorienting very much so that that child who's standing at the deep end of the pool in their father's arms out there and they've never made that jump <hes>. It's a little scary yet to use the cliche. It's almost like take. This can't be real right. The news is too good and that's what we're seeking to say is now. The gospel truly is good. It's not okay news yeah. It's not decent news. If you can measure up it's it's good news and i do think as you've already said john people do experience this moma limit of distort like disorientation even weightlessness so you have people regular you look at you and you're like okay so christ really has done it all yes. That's what we're saying. So what do i do now. Yeah that's right glass and it's a good question and i love when people ask me that question. I know you brothers due to and then what i say to them i missed you know what the great irony is here. You're actually going to continue doing pretty much the same staff absolutely it's just gonna be for a very different reason true and as we've already said we're we're actually now putting the horse in front of the cart rather than it being backwards. That's right yeah you know. It's it's the difference between a child who who obeys their their parents because they're just excited about living in this home versus. They're afraid when their parents get home from work because they're going to be disciplined right absolutely i it's it's just the the idea of the joy living for joy versus delight delight res- dress what we say if you're intrigued by what we're saying might let me encourage you to go to theo cast. I started work. We wrote a little book there. It's called faith versus faithfulness a primer on rest and it's free and you can download that and you can really engage on a deeper level of what we're trying to lead you too and if you like that book we have a larger ones called a pilgrim's guide to rest. You can find that on our website or on amazon but we're looking forward to taking you down this journey. We've got four years worth of information so if you get to a place while i want more of what they're offering than just you know the ten episodes that are available. You can have access to all of that. It's on our website. We would love to have you part of our alexis team and and be able to interact with you there. We hope this was helpful. Thank you for listening to theo cast. If you'd like to contact contact us or find out additional information about our membership you can do so at theo cast dot org.

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Biblical Counseling: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

Theocast - Reformed Theology

43:55 min | 5 months ago

Biblical Counseling: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly

"Hi this is Justin Today on theo cast. We talk about Biblical counseling. We have a conversation about some of the downfalls of the biblical Counseling Movement. In particular it's tendencies toward quieted them hyper introspection, and then we consider how counseling can be done well from confessional and Christ centered perspective, we consider how things like counseling centers can be used well for outreach, so that people can cure the Gospel and also can be used to funnel people. People to the local church, which is the real place where counseling, ongoing soul care hers, and then in the members podcast we talk a little bit about our particular areas, and our visions for these kinds of things even stuff. That's already going on in the city where we're located, and then we talk some about sanctification in the church, and how a perspective that emphasizes. Emphasizes an obsesses on sanctification actually hinders our ongoing Christian life in our growth in faith. We hope conversation is helpful. Clarifying in encouraging for you stay tuned. Hey, guys is a quick reminder. If you'd like to join the cast and helping other people find rest in Christ, a simple way of doing that is simply by living us a review on itunes or your favorite. Favorite podcast APP. You can also leave reviews all of our books. They're available at Amazon Dot. COM and if you haven't started following us on twitter, instagram or facebook yet, that's a great way to take our content, and then share it with your friends and family to learn more about how to support the simply visit. The Oh cast dot org slash. Give me. Welcome to theo cast. Encouraging weary pilgrims to rest in Christ conversations about the Christian life from a reform perspective. Our hosts today are John Audit Pastor of grace reformed church in Spring Hill Tennessee Jimmy. Bueller Pastor of Christ, community church in Wilmer Minnesota and Myself Justin, purdue, Pastor, of covenant. This church in Asheville North, Carolina. Brothers it's good to be around the microphones with you again today. After a week off, we are back to podcasting. How you guys doing in particular, Jimmy! I'm interested in how you're doing. Because you have our cultural update for today. Well, I'm actually going to take over cultural. Update and say the wrong. Word John Would Apple. The reason we didn't record last week. Is I lost power for three days, so we literally just? Who's going to do cultural update and now John just usurp that. He jumped in and took it he did. You have to. I feel very dethroned at the moment John. Okay, it's back Dino. Wanted everybody to know my pain that I I didn't have power for three days now I. I want that Israel coming in the mid. Nineteen in the Mexico we will know what will will council on that later anyway, so yeah I'm glad to wow. Bingo I'm glad to do the cultural date good to see you? Guys again so we're approaching the end of the school year here in Minnesota so I don't know how school works in Y'all's neck of the woods, but we typically do not start school until after Labor Day and then we'd be and then we end around. Memorial Day which I feel like. It's just normal, but in Ohio where I grew up, it was you know we started in late August and went through June almost. That's how that's how it is in North Carolina. Nancy, there go so I'm I'm just looking forward to yeah. A lot of listeners know that I'm I'm vocational and so I'm just looking forward to having a little bit more time to to spend. On church related things throughout the summer. We've got some fun fun. Things planned with the family We feel like we've. We've reached a a really fun age with our children, so we are seven five, and then our daughter just turned three this past weekend and she is and we are. she is very cute, and and we are officially out of diapers in our house. We do not have diapers. That's a show that is huge especially for JP. For that John, yeah. Yeah, right so it is, we are just so. We feel like we're diapers. Yeah He. I think he does the. Tune diapers. One, we have one in diapers. One in pull ups for NAP and bedtime. All right there you go there. You go so yeah, so we're also in that age where we're no longer like dominated by our children's INAP- schedule like we can go out in the afternoon again. It's real which. Which is just it? Is this really neat? Place to be as a family, we feel like our our two older boys like my my oldest son weaken. We can hold. You know mature conversation with him over an extended period of time, and and so yeah, we just we're. To summer. It's great, you know. What do you know what the NAS stages Jimmy the next stage? That's GONNA blow. Your world is when your children can be watched by your oldest in your wife can have like two dates a weakness. It's yeah that we that we already. We already are talking to our oldest child about that and he's only sick. And we're allies. There's GonNa. Come a time when you're GONNA be in charge like mom and are going to go out and leave you in towards. He's already talking about it. He's excited, so it's like we're just trying to sew the seeds right now, and we're close to where you are Jimmy. Our youngest just turned two, and so we're thinking. Yeah, like life's already getting better and men in another year. This is gonNA. Be Real like when right when there's less I. Like nobody's in diapers and like you said there's no longer the tyranny of the NAP schedule. It just yeah. It's a thing to think well funny. Larry Dr Topic. Funny Story will quake we. My wife and I wanted to go a date. We had been on forever and we didn't really want to. Let the kids at home. They're at that age where we could, but not for like thirty minutes is fine not for two hours. So this is back when there wasn't like a lot of home security cameras that were affordable so there was this doggy APP. Download it on the IPAD, and if there was motion in front of the APP, it would come on. And so, we set that up by the front door and I said all right kids. You got to see her watch TV. And if you, if you get up and leave, will, we'll get notified and like every five minutes. My wife is checking the after to throw K. which it wasn't a very relaxing dinner, but it was like our first test of leaving the kids home alone, and now it's like you can have like a constant video feed of what your kids are doing for like nothing so anyways. Well now that we both have just piled in on Jimmy's cultural up. That's fine and. He's tweeting about something right now. Anyway, so it doesn't here he is, he's signing and then some tweeting and. I way. There are so many parents that have been listening to this. Who are depressed and probably GonNa need counselling now because there. And we're. So? They're just sitting here going, you know. Kids in diapers. I can't go on dates. I'm just less of a Christian. So I. Could I? I could commiserate with them and maybe maybe offer some. Some Common Sense Council. Asked. Yeah so John Moffatt. Brother Director of Theo cast. Why don't you help us transition? Seamlessly painlessly to our topic for to them I. Don't know if that's ever been publicly announced that the director so there you go. Well. We need to edit that out. No no, it's totally fine. It's you know it sound so official. Like were some big ministry it's. Not really anything so anyways. The subject we have for his of dollars She may not. Be More than I make. Yeah. The The subject for today is one that is very near, and dear to my own heart. It is something that has plugged a lot of churches plugged. ME, in the past with dealing with. The Christian life, so we're going to talk about the movement of what we call Biblical counseling and we had the longest conversation I think. We've ever had prior to our podcast this morning. Just making sure that we do not come across. And this is not a deconstructionist's episode where we only hear just to pull apart everything that we find wrong. but there are some areas where we want to help the church think through the role of counseling from the Bible from a confessional biblical perspective, and there are a lot of movements out there, and some of them are helpful and a lot of them are not, and this is where we're going to try and explain to you why we think they can be actually more damaging than maybe helpful. An all three of his. Positive experiences when it comes to biblical counseling and Some of us have had horrible experiences when it comes to it so just by way of starting when we say Biblical counseling. It is giving someone directive to their life. Normally you don't go into counseling unless there's a problem, right? You have some kind of problem that you need to be directed, and you cannot find that directive on your own, so that's why people go to counselling. I mean that's pretty obvious right? And then we put the word Biblical in front of it, so you're not just getting a secular idealism where human behavior ism what you're looking for is to receive council from power. That's above you. Comes from a trusted source that you know is true. A lot of counseling is dairy so in theory, the so work to help your marriage better in theory. This could help because it's not necessarily founded upon rock solid. You can't just stamp it and say this absolutely will work when it comes to the word of God Biblical counseling is. Trusting its source with scripture, so you're going to the word of God to say these are truths that we know that we can absolutely trust because there are founded upon the inherent word of God. That's the that's the the the background behind bill counseling. the unfortunate side of Biblical counseling it what we want to talk about in the beginning, and then we're gonNA. Move to how we think you should Perc- perceive an use counseling or call it biblical counseling. The unfortunate side is that we have people who walk into Biblical. Counseling centers or any kind of a Christian Center and they typically are walking in what they send issue or something. That's been done to them, so they're not necessarily INCEN-, but they are battling the sin of someone else, or they're battling depression that maybe not even be a Sensu and what they're handed is not necessarily biblical truth with they're handed. Is Behavior ISM and therapy? which the the solutions that are provided to them? If you do this and you do this, then your behavior will change s behavior. ISM so they're trying to improve your moral behavior, and they're going to use scripture either as proof that you need. To improve your moral behavior or as motivation when I was in seminary. The first verse you took people too was a proverbs where it says the way of the center is hard, so the first thing you need to understand you know to motivate people that the long stay inside the harder it will be, and then there are motivations for if you know the you immediately, go negative because you don't want them to stand since you begin to have them, question you know. Do you truly love God? You want to get this? And unfortunately you start messing with their assurance. In the model that I was taught, and then it was basically do these things reader Bible more pray more read these books discipline yourself and. That's going to improve your behavior so guys. That's kind of where we're going to start and I know that We have quite a few things to add here, so JP. Whatever? What are your thoughts on on this? I want to pick up on some of the things that you've said and and frame it may be in my own way. The to. The the kind of understanding of Biblical counseling that we would not advocate because biblical counseling is a very broad term, and not everybody's needs the same thing when they used the phrase and so I it's important for us to understand at least a little bit in terms of where some of this comes from it. In the nineteen seventies and eighties, a the the church I think looked at the the secular for backup lack of describe it the secular therapeutic model. The church looked at that and thought you know we. We can actually do that better than the world does it because we have scripture, and and we have the Holy Spirit and so, what ended up happening? Interestingly enough in the church is the began to be as John is already referred to a perspective and a methodology that resulted that was effectively a cognitive behavior ism in church with kind of a Christian label, slapped on it and again by cognitive behaviors. What we mean is if you can change somebody's thinking and recalibrate somebody's thinking in in this case according to scripture, then you can change their behavior, and that becomes the entire goal. Goal and project of the of the the approach, and it becomes the IMO that drives everything is we need to transform behavior by changing and recalibrating thinking and so what this ends up doing if we're not careful, as is we end up turning the Bible into something that it really is not we. We turn the Bible into essentially a handbook for mental and emotional health, and that's not at all. What scripture is a scripture is is an account of redemptive history. It's God's Plan of Redemption Accomplished through Christ that unfolds through time in space in history. It's not of some sort of handbook for your life, and also we turn the Bible. Bible into a kind of medicine cabinet. Where we go to it do depending on the problem. We go to it to find the solution. Cure the Elixir. Make this better. Oh, you're, you're depressed, will hear your versus for that. You're struggling with lust, will here versus for that or maybe it's anger in here you're versus for for that, and if you take these verses, and you call me next Tuesday I'm sure you're going to be doing much better. And that's an unhelpful perspective that that is often sadly common. I think in in Biblical counseling sometimes to day, and so those are the kinds of things that we want to talk about and. And really discourage is this approach to counseling that is focused almost exclusively on transforming behavior, whereas what we want to point people to is something very different, and we want to use scripture the way that we think it should be used, and we want to talk about counseling, really as a subset of the Christian life in the church, and in point, people to a a more corporate reality, and what we think is is more in line with not only the Bible's revelation, but then also what we would understand, a confessional reformed perspective on the Christian, Life and theology such few thoughts for me I know you guys are chomping at the bit. Yeah. So one of the things that I've noticed over the years. Primarily and myself as well as in those around the is that we as people, we are very much pain. Averse we don't. We don't want to experience pain whether it be on a physical level, and certainly not an emotional and spiritual level, and so I think. A lot of what that can lead to is is sort of quick fixes. And? Just just sort of like a behavior modification approach. I think offers that I. Think it gives people that quick fix that as long as I can rid myself of this behavior, I'm going to feel better tomorrow, and the issue with that is that it's almost like. Eating junk food like it feels really good in that moment, and it's even dare I say satisfying, but the issue is once once that hunger comes back or once that once that feeling comes down. You can almost feel worse than you did before because when you're when you're aiming at primarily a behavior modification approach. And then that behavior returns your lows become all the more lower because something that you are trying to rid yourself of has returned with a vengeance and it can. It can turn the center more in on themselves and make them feel worse than they did before. I think that's exactly what the issue with Biblical counseling is. Is that you end up turning your? It's it's introspective mostly. and when we're going to get to. To, be clear and it just tobacco Justin saying I'm we're? We're not taking a nuke to biblical counseling, but what has what has developed over time? Going to take a new just like I would to any church model or preaching model that is not going to help the believer truly find rest, and my biggest beef is. That the the believer does not cannot find rest in Christ in the midst of struggling with San and thrown depravity one, their turned in on themselves and right. Most Biblical counseling is a quick fix in these are the things you can do to overcome the sends, and as you do that. You're pointed in yourself, which is direct opposition of Colossians chapter two. So it's in the the danger of most biblical counseling is introspective. Here's how you fix you exactly an introspective by definition. Is PYATT cystic. That's stuff we talk about all the time on Theo cast. So what we really. If we wanted to boil this down what we are aiming at today or what we have in our crosshairs, today is what we might call Pyatt cystic biblical counseling. The we find to be completely unhelpful. Right verses what we're going to offer as more confessional perspective on counseling and Piat Cystic Perspective on counseling is everything that you've said John It's introspective. It's pointing the Christian back in on him or herself. It's pointing the Christian to his or her performance or obedience or disciplines and walk. Honestly point the Christian to. To those things as the method to overcome, said struggle now, of course there is acknowledgement of God and the Holy Spirit and Grayson all these things, but really where the rubber meets the road is. Are you going to be diligent, enough and vigilant enough, and are you going to be disciplined enough in your application of these things in order to see yourself delivered you know, and and that's that's problematic from our perspective on a number of levels we do believe in the transformation of life, but we we understand that to be something that the Holy Spirit of God does over the course of a long time. As ordinary means ministries applied which will get to in just a minute. We're excited to announce that. We have a new free e book available at our website called faith versus faithfulness, a primer on rest, and we host put this together to explain the difference between emphasizing one's faith in Christ versus emphasizing once faithfulness to Christ, and how one leads to arrest in how the other often to a lack of assurance, and you can get this at the cast dot org slash primer, and if you've been encouraged. Encouraged by what you've been hearing. The CAST would ask you to help partner with us. You can do that by joining our total access membership. That's our monthly membership that gives you access to all of our immaterial that we've produced over the last four years, or simply by donating to our ministry, and you can do that by going to our website Theo cast out work. We hope that you enjoy the rest of the conversation. One of the things we need to think about is helping the church. Recalibrate themselves when it comes to problems when. I have this all the time. I people happened me Sundays. Someone contacted us through Facebook, asking for counseling, and that's kind of how they view the church. The church is their. Fixed my problem. Fix My issue, and then even those who are in the church when they find themselves really trapped in sin their solution as well. I guess I just need counselling, and so they think I'm GonNa need to meet with somebody for six to ten weeks to. Denote a walk me through this and the issue with this is that is unfortunately not how the Church handled sin and struggles with sin. Historically and even biblically when we look at how Paul Paul didn't have a therapeutic model set in place to where do such and such, and you overcome such and such. That's just not how he described the church growing with sent. Because what that sounds like is you have a problem separated outside of the Church? When really you have a problem inside the Church Yeah. Yeah and so I I do I. Do want to give like a positive take on this because as somebody who has received counseling at a professional level. I myself had had a positive experience with counseling and let me just explain what was positive about that experience so one I wasn't divorced from the local church, and so I was active in the church I was actively receiving help from trusted sources within that church was open with the things that I was struggling with, and because my issues in my own opinion and in others, opinions were very complex. The the counseling that I received was in addition to the care I was already receiving at my local church, and so my my Kozlov experience. I was telling you guys before we got on before we recording was was actually a vital step in my journey towards greater reformation theology, and here's why my counselor was very fixed on not just applying scripture verses out of context, he was more so fixed on helping me focus on the objective and declarative realities of the Gospel in my life and getting me out of this introspective. Morbid navel-gazing posture that I had built over time it very much like a puritanical of approach to the Christian life, and he was, he was very good and skilled at polling, the out of myself, and helping me to fix my eyes upon Christ that regardless of the the sin that was. So much weighing me down in my life, my counselor and shout out to him. My counselor was very much. At pointing me to the outside of myself realities, and so we want to be clear that I know we said this already that we are not saying that there is no time. And there is no space for counseling at at any level, but what we're trying to say is what kind of counseling is helpful. Is that which is? Is Pointing the the center of the struggler, the Weird Saint Outside of themselves unto Jesus. Agreed Jimmy I, think it's helpful for a counselor to look at somebody and tell them. You've come to me to meet with me. Obviously, because you have this this struggle or this problem in your life, well, let me be the first or maybe the second third tenth of many to tell you that you may very well struggle with this for the rest of your days. So if you coming to me if you're if you're approaching, this is well. Let me go. Go, get counseling and I'll be better. Let me go get counseling, and I'll be fixed I. Don't think that this is for you, but it in coming to counseling, the goal would be what you've described Jimmy that the counselor is a tool that the lord uses to point the Christian to Christ, and to point the Christian outside of him or herself to the objective realities. Realities of the Gospel and Jesus done for them in conjunction. This is critical in conjunction with the local church, and so your experience was a good one because you had a counselor who pointed you outside of Yourself? And because your counselor was caring for you in conjunction with the care that you were receiving in your local church, and those are two critical pieces, I, the all. All three of US would advocate. We want the objective realities. The confessional realities of the face held out to people in counseling, and it must be done in the context of the local church, and in conjunction with the local church. Even if we're seeking counseling outside of you know that, maybe the older of our church and I think a good thought with this is that? What we want to see is that when anybody is going to get counseling biblical counseling outside of the Church, that counseling entity is funneling people back into the local church for their ongoing care, you know in for the ongoing practice of just living the Christian life. The the counseling center is not or the counselor is not the entity. That's GonNa do that. The heavy lifting and the sustaining work for this person in their following of Jesus the local church is going to do that, and that's a critical critical piece here. I'm quick. Shout out, gave shout to your counselor, a quick shout out to an entity here in our city that one of our members has started restoration counseling center of Ashville. Ashville is seeking to do this very same work in not only pointing people to Jesus, but also pointing people to the local church in terms of what they need in an ongoing basis to live the Christian life, the counseling piece of itself is at best a supplemental aspect. It is not going to be the thing that that's going to do it. And I think that's that's what's missing. Sadly for so many people those two pieces. You're pointing people in on themselves. That's unhelpful and you're acting like the counselor. The counseling center is going to be the instrument that the Lord is GonNa use an I think it's going to be the local church guys if we look at the New Testament. A couldn't agree more and in. there. There are great counseling ministries out there. I had a good conversation some last night. Who was trying to start a podcast was kind of help them with. We were through counseling legal counseling. And For their podcast insider for the ministry in we need more people who are willing to get down in the. With people and love on them and funnel them out of the community who are not in Church and use counseling to funneling into their into what would say ordinary means context. Most Christians don't know what ordinary means context looks like to wear. You strive struggle and love underneath the means that God has provided, which is his word fellowship in the sacraments baptism, and once you learn to live in that context It changes how you see your struggles and what you need counseling for. Now there are times win. the. Bible is very clear that. There you you need. If you get so trapped in engulfed in sin that you're just not, you're not coming out of it. You need to sit down with someone who's wise and confess these problems so that they can maybe speak into your life and say hey, this is why you continue to struggle in these areas and let me give you some council here now. There's some extreme there. There are some extreme examples that. That I've personally been involved in where I had to go a go with this person and admit them into a hospital because they were so psychologically messed up that they could not even have a logical conversation with me and the fellow elder I was with. This is a different shirt context just for some of my trick. Members that are listening I was smaller church now. This is at a different church reformer church. We had admit them and they were there for two weeks. Just because they were there is, we couldn't even have a logical conversation. And they were meeting with psychologist to try and figure out what was going on, and he had fallen into such a deep depression that he couldn't even have a logical conversation, so I needed. I need to be very clear here that I am not even opposing psychology on certain levels. There's a lot of horrible stuff that's out there, but on certain levels or even. Counseling because I've also had sexual cases where this is way the some of the stuff that they are dealing with I can't even give biblical. Church driven council to because we can't even have. A normal conversation until we've been able to kind of regained some ground just on a level that I am not trained in. We're not talking about a spiritual level right now. We're talking at a physical level, so you know there's even in the I I grew up in a biblical counseling world where any type of psychology or any type of medication was on Biblical, and you need to get off of it and stay away from it, because it hinders your work of the holy. Spirit and I'm just not there and I would heartily push back against that which we did in our depression episode so. Yeah yeah and that kind of. Pushes me where where I wanted to take this in that. Perhaps something we discuss guys is that there is? There's also kind of the other side of this coin where you can. People can hear what we're saying, and they can think that what we're saying is you, don't you don't need to ever seek professional help. You only need the local church, and that is now what we are saying. We you know there's very much a healthy marriage that. That needs to occur. However, let's go to the other extreme. In what about those who would say well, the Bible is sufficient right you have believe it's second Peter Chapter One you know appears introduction you know. God has given us all things that pertain to life and godliness, and then you also have you know Paul's letters to Timothy where he talks about the the sufficiency of scripture. And you can, you can go in the other extreme. Where can say well? You don't need any sort of professional care because the Bible is sufficient for all of your needs, the Bible is sufficient for for all of the complex realities and emotions and psychological things that you are facing and so wondering if you guys can speak to that a little bit in terms of. What. What do we say to those who have heard that that you only need the Bible the? Bible can speak to everything. was certainly the three of us do agree that the Bible is sufficient. Right for for all matters of faith and practice, we believe that, but we need to be clear about what we understand the sufficient scripture to mean and be so the way that we use scripture in this conversation is critical like if we misuse the Bible and turn it into something that it isn't. We really do damage to people. I I alluded to this a little bit earlier. We whenever we've you the Bible in its sufficiency as some sort of medicine cabinet, or as some sort of handbook for mental and emotional health. That's bad what we need to do with scripture is understand what it's about, and we talk all the time about the redemptive historical framework of the Bible that it's. It's about Redemption Accomplished through Christ. It's about God's utter faithfulness to us in spite of our faithlessness to him right and so that's what we use scripture for whenever we take people to scripture were pointing them over and over, and over again to the other faithfulness of God in the face of their suffering, and were pointing them over and over, and over again to the perfect sufficient adequate work of Jesus Christ that stands outside of them, that's unshakable and unmovable, in spite of their sin, and struggle and failure, and so that's the main application of the Bible when it comes to any kind of counseling right, and so of course the scriptures sufficient, but then we have to ask the question. How does change in the Christian life happened? I would say it happens so it will happen. It's certain it happens over the course of longtime, and it happens at different rates at different times for different people, so we have to be very clear about all of that stuff, and it's going to happen in the context. We've said this already. It's going to happen in the context of the local church through the ordinary means over the course of years and decades, and it's went. Went people take their eyes off their own naval, and put their gaze on Christ and concern themselves with loving their brothers and sisters that real growth and transformation happen, and so that were really trying to do in counselling his liberate people with the Truth of the Gospel and with this kind of change in perspective that will then set them free to trust Christ even in the midst of their struggle in their battle with within. Yet so that we harp this phrase all the time. We we are always talking about what it means to to live status forward, and so when people are coming to receive care when people are coming to find bomb for their soul. We're reminding them of what. God says in his Gospel. That they are declared righteous by grace alone through faith alone on account of Christ alone that these realities exist extra, no or outside of themselves in Sodas for pointing people and I and I I wanted to give a small illustration. We joked about you know in my cultural update that John bombed. That we are in this place right now with our children where we are finally getting out. Yeah that's right, update bomb and. If you talk to me, you know three or four years ago where? All three of them were experiencing going to the bathroom in various ways and fashions. We were so inundated with those things that it was hard to look beyond, and so you know j. p., when you talk about kind of your head down keeping your eyes upon Christ and just allowing God's goodness and kindness and sovereignty to inundate our lives over the course of years and decades. It's similar when it comes to like the little years with your children, they will come to an end right. You will not be dominated by diapers and NAP schedule for the rest of your life. But in that moment you know those words of comfort how you can say not feel good. It's all you can see, but it will come to an end, and similarly exactly we are talking about walking with people with sin. In their sin, as they struggle with their own frame in their flesh. And the the different things that have happened to them. We have to have a certain level of patients that these people may be walking through these things over years and decades, and so quickly we can say you need to get. You need to drop the sin now and if you don't drop the sin now well it saying something about the greater state of your heart, and it's like well. Wait a minute. Let's just be a little bit more patient with people as they as they struggle. So I just wanted to throw that in there. John I. Know that you want to yeah coming quick. Well Jpl at you gotTA comics. I'm about to change us a little bit. No I Jimmy asked about the sufficiency of scripture, and the thing that that I had jotted down on my whiteboard, but I overlooked in our kind of frenzy was. Just to to believe in the sufficiency of scripture does not mean that we Jackson and abandoned common grace means that God has given us right, and so we uphold, both that that scripture is sufficient for what it was intended to be sufficient for right, and at the same time God has made us in his image with the ability to develop common grace, means that are helpful to people which would include you know wisdom that exists in the world that God has made, and it would include even medication in some cases John. You referenced this already. There are certain. Certain instances where people have real medical problems that need to be addressed medically. If we're going to really be of much help to people, just like we don't try to reason or council the alcoholic when he's drunk or the addict when he's high, we wouldn't want to try to do but so much work with somebody that is in the throes of a real medical issue, and so sometimes the best thing we can do is point people to a medical professional and then resume the work of ongoing care, so yeah, that's common sense observation. Maybe but it matters yeah. We'll, and I'll speak to that on a different level, maybe negative level in that I've had people come to my church, and they're assuming that I'm going as their pastor to be their new counselor, and they're just going to have these ongoing meetings with me and what I'm doing is pushing them back into the context of the church because they don't have any life threatening issue. It's kind of like you're struggling. Like the rest of us in the solution is learn how to function as a Body member which what they wanted, they wanted pursue. Pursue relationship with me. That was ongoing therapeutic ride. Meet with them and listen to them and then give them something to work on just like look. I gave you something to work on. You don't WanNa. Do it in I. Can't you know we'RE NOT GONNA? We're not going to go on and on on. You know had a conversation recently in a gave me a love to throw this at you guys. This this is the time of the podcast were were about to go into the members, podcasts and I. Throw you a hopper. Ya grounder your. Yeah. It's an easy one, though once interesting is on a on a word count basis. How much does the Bible say about marriage and parenting? On a word count basis specifically to. Very little little yeah yeah. You can count me like five. Versus you know, and now you can apply all verses that speak to your neighbor gives your wife is your first neighbor right and your kids are your neighbors, so all of those verses apply, but when it comes down to marital advice. Or even sexual advice this just not there. There's not a lot of and where where there can be men who have a lot of common sense. Instruction and Hey, look, this is what I'm finding. Is that guys that are in their twenties and thirties getting married today lack common sense when it comes to how to care for your wife. I mean forget biblical. Theology Biblical counseling I'm just talking about. Hey, this is called commonsense care. This is how you take care of of a of someone. You're married right like if if you need me to open proverbs to convince you that what you're doing right now is foolish than we've got another conversation you know. Exactly. But John What about all those sermon series on marriage and parenting right and they're unload here I'll. And I have books that I recommend, and we have with meredith, marriage and parenting, and I'm GonNa tell them like people say. Why can't you just show me from the Bible Gazelle say the Bible does not contain for instance if you want and knowledge and wisdom on how to buy a house. I'm not going to go to scripture other than make sure you're not one buying a house. You can't afford a number two. You're not. You're not doing this out of envy, but after that he's GonNa. Talk about budgeting and you talk about market you need to talk about. Loans that's not going to be in the Bible. Okay, that's counseling. You'RE GONNA need to go get from like a real estate agent or somebody that does does this for a living? To your point John You. Marriage is a great example or parenting, too. If you were to only go to the passages in scripture that exclusively mention marriage or parenting, you would miss like ninety nine point nine percent of what the scripture actually says to you. That's going to be relevant for your marriage for your parenting. Because the vast majority it's it's high level truths of the Gospel the work of Christ the reality of who you are in Adam, and what it looks like to love neighbor, and so you're i. mean I preached a sermon, a marriage sermon series, the forefront merit sermon series a couple of years ago at CBC and I was very clear from the outset that I will not be looking at any of the typical marriage texts. First of all I think they're often abused ripped out of context, but then the point was wh- The the the Bible says to this reality has more to do with who you are. Your struggles as a center and the sufficiency of Christ in his work in the Gospel. Then it has to do anything else, and then let's just talk about common sense about how we struggle with with each other because we're centers. I mean that's how we do, and that's really how council in it doesn't matter what the subject matter is. And that's how we use scripture back to what we were talking about before is we use scripture as I think it was intended to be used. Yeah. Well in the in the WE'RE GONNA move over to our members podcast before we do, I want to kind of just get ready and teed up here, so we've done a lot of deconstruction done little bit of reconstruction here. in what I would love for us to do is see how I think Biblical, counseling or counseling in general can be a wonderful outreach into your community at something that I personally am starting to do now. Now where I have a lot of people who grew up in the south who grew up around Christianity, and they blow up their life for marriage parenting, and then they say well now any counseling and I would love to give some wise counsel to these people, and then say what you really need, a soul care and let me show you what that looks like, so we'll speak to that a little bit in the. In the members podcast and the, we're going to talk about how we need to learn to be. Counselors. A body body members, so let's just forget the word counseling because it has this weird psychological connection to a one on one basis, but every person in the body is responsible for the soul care of each other, so let's put Biblical counseling in the proper perspective, and let's put as Justin just ended. Let's put where actual growth and maintenance should happen back in on the church, so we'll. We'll speak to that on on on. On a more practical level in the members podcasts so gentleman les, you have any parting. Shots were GONNA go ahead and move over there and We just want to thank you guys for listening. If you're new theo cast, you can go to our website. The accounts dot org and we have actually new podcast. They're called. Ask Theo cast, and if you are a member or when a joiner membership you now have access to. To all of our podcast on your favorite podcast APP, we have a new program that we're working with where you can download our weekly premium. PODCASTS are members, podcast, and all three hundred plus back episodes right on your phone and for those of you that are tired of logging into the website to try and find enough, so you don't have to do that anymore. You can have it right there on your phone and. And thank you for all those months of supporters. This is what makes us available and we should have a new book available. If not by now book available on assurance, we are excited to put that available to primer starting a primer series. So that's the next book in our Primary Series on assurance. If you WANNA, learn more about all of that, go to the Dot Org Gentlemen, we'll see you in a few minutes. Team!

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The Five Points of Reformed Theology

Theocast - Reformed Theology

50:19 min | Last month

The Five Points of Reformed Theology

"Hi, this is Justin today on c o cast we are going to answer a question that we get all the time. Not just here with respect to the podcast and the ministry of video cast but even in our own local churches we talked about reformed theology. We talked about being reformed. So people will rightly ask us Brothers. What do you mean by that? What does the word reformed mean dead? So in today's episode John and I will be answering that question. We hope that it's helpful to you stay tuned. Hey guys, there's a quick reminder. If you'd like to join Theo cast and helping other people faith in Christ a simple way of doing that is simply by leaving us a review on iTunes or your favorite podcast app. You can also leave reviews on all of our books. They're available at amazon.com. And if you've started following us on Twitter Instagram or Facebook yet. That's a great way to take our content and then share it with your friends and family to learn more about how to support Theo cast simply visit the page. . Org, / give welcome video cast encouraging weary pilgrims to rest in Christ conversations about the Christian Life from a reformed perspective our host today are John Moffitt pastor of Grace Reformed Church Spring Hill, Tennessee and myself Justin Purdue pastor of Covenant Baptist Church in Asheville, North Carolina. We've got a good episode in store for you today. So I'm gonna throw it over to my brother Joseph offit. He's going to give us a brief observation on food and Cuisine cuz that matters to us too and then we're going to get the real stuff of the conversation for today. Yep, I like dried fruit. I like fruit. That's kind of packaged a way that you can grab some real quick. Throw it in last night. I was a little hungry after I went to bed. I didn't want to eat anything, you know heavy home. So I watched in the closet and there was a bag of pitted prunes, right and no dates pitted not presented dates completes traffic because you said day before I know and I pulled one out and I'm looking at it and I like this is the same size and color as a cockroach. Let's just be real and I put it into my mouth and after I thought I couldn't I ate one. I was like, that's it. I can't eat anymore. Cuz now I feel like I'm eating a cockroach. There you go. For those of you like dates that may have just ruined it for you. Hopefully, hopefully everybody is edified and built up by what God has shared with us. We're grateful brother. Yeah. Yeah. Let's well on another note a couple in a slightly better note. Here we go. Just some updates from from Theo cast be looking for a new series on covenant theology and introduction to covenant theology my from my understanding. It should be out by now. So you can go off and and download down and listen to it. We we tried our best to get that in his small content as possible. We really would we really did want it to be an induction. I think it's three hours total wage is five sessions. There's including notes and all of that. So go to the website and look for that a big deal in my life lately. We started our church about 3 and 1/2. I guess three years ago and Thursday, we we are we help Plant Jimmy Bueller that's in Minnesota last November and this last weekend two weekends ago. We had another young man who is graduate from Westminster Theological Seminary in San Diego who's been associate pastor there. He just moved out here to help work with me for the next year. And then next year December twenty Twenty-One. He's dead. You planning to church with us? Yeah, just south of us. So we make this morning right after this I get to go and meet with him about starting to create that schedule and plan and so it's a big deal. We're excited to see another Reformed Church be planted where the gospel will be proclaimed. So it's encouraging to see what God's doing there. So just you know, I'll tell you this right now. I met Patrick through Theo cast. So those of you who support them spread this ministry, we are planning another church because of the your ministry. So there you go. Yeah, absolutely. So you said just now Did another Reformed Church will be planted Lord willing in the years, That's right. So right I know you and I are unashamed about this and I know Jimmy agrees with us. We we do Theo castbox think it is valuable and good and needed and at the same time we are Unapologetic about the fact that we are pastors of our own local church first. And so as you and I were talking before we recorded this morning the content that we're about to record today. We hope and trust will be helpful to a lot of people and we absolutely think that it will be helpful to people who attend our churches and two people who try to show up especially maybe for the first time and we're having conversations with them about coming to Baptist Church or about Grace Reformed Church, and they'll they'll ask they'll hear the word reformed. It's in the name of your church done. They hear that word potentially, you know in in the context of our church here in North Carolina and many people will ask. Yep. What do you mean like what do you mean when you say reform some people? Well, you have common ideas of coming in your name, which is another. Yeah, it's right. That's a point or two to a piece of this conversation that we're going to have some people have a lot of questions. What do you mean when you say that word and so there by we're going to have a conversation today about what we need is right when we say refuse and sewage because we like to be clever and people loved us for our cleverness. We have entitled this do they do they really I I'm being completely sarcastic completely sarcastic right now, We have entitled this episode The Five Points of reformed theology and by that we don't mean definitively that Theo cast is now, you know, laying down the gauntlet for what Christmas tested reformed theology. Theo cast is now putting that forward but no, these are just five tenants five major pieces of reformed theology try perspective. Yeah, when I get this question and I we do a lot a lot of new people who come to our church or when when our church members are sharing. Hey, I go to Greece or Forum. What's the first question they asked well in our area the reformed theology is is not popular. A lot of people don't know what it is. It's kind of why we decided to put it in the name of the church. I give them these these Five Points again to Justin's Point. These could be offered a little bit. You could add some or maybe adjust a little bit but we would say historically speaking if you were to look at the history of the word and the concept of reformed and a Reformed Church These is what these five would be. I think at least what would be in in all context of a Reformed Church. So we'll start with the first one and we'll go through there. So the first one that Justin and I would agree on is that reformed the word reformed or Reformed Church is going to be I know this might be a big word for people's controversial were dead. But calvinistic they would hold to what we would say there five points of Calvinism. So Justin for someone who has no idea if they were just curious about reformed theology. Give us a hopeful definition of Calvinism. Yeah, so I'm not going to give the Five Points of Calvinism just as a brief a brief plug here. We did five episodes one on each of the Five Points a while back John. I think she may even make those available to anybody for a donation of any amount. So we would refer you to those if you want more detailed unpacking of each of the five points and even what those are the most simple to Define calvinistic theology. I think even historically and from our perspective here at c o cast is that God is God is Sovereign and purposeful in all things and he certainly is in Redemption. And so when it comes to the Salvation of Sinners, there is one worker there is one person one being who does that who accomplishes salvation and that is God himself off in other words salvation Belongs to the Lord God Saves Sinners is what calvinistic theology would teach to use a a word that is maybe slightly more technical theological, but it's good for us to know wage. We believe as Calvinists that salvation is monergistic mono meaning one and in the word Ergo meaning work. So there is one worker. So God does this it is we contribute nothing to our Salvation. All we bring is our sin and God does everything necessary to save Sinners. He he actually grabs us and pulls us from the birth of death into life. Right? He gives us his Spirit he counts us with the righteousness of Christ. He provides us with everything that we need and we are redeemed through his work not our work off right that I mean John, please feel free to rip on ya know I would I would say I would say because of that over we have that perspective of scripture that we believe that the Bible clearly teaches that man is dead in their sin that there is nothing they can do to bring themselves to life. This is why the spirit must come through the preaching of the gospel and bring them to life that it will affect the way and it took As throughout all of history those who would understand a reform perspective. It affects the way that we preach that we teach and that we do church because we don't believe we can we can change the minds of men that salvation is not a will issue that all I need to do is convince somebody of the Gospel then I'm sorry convince someone to to believe Jesus and follow him. Then I would say this changes the way in which when we preach we trust in the power of the Gospel not convincing them to change their minds. We believe that God has to do that through this. So reformed theology when it comes to Calvinism, it's not just what we just think that there's there's these Five Points it actually shapes and molds the way we preach and the way we teach and the way that we administer the gospel and evangelism right and last thing I'll say on this perhaps is we believed as I said earlier that God save Sinners if we do not believe that we save ourselves with God's help you. And that has a lot of implications that you already mentioned some of them part of this too for me over. The last number of years John is that you know, even the Five Points of Calvinism and some of the things that that entails I don't feel like I need to get up and defend that I am just when I preach the gospel Calvinism as it is so-called. It's really just part and parcel of the good news that we were, you know, a basically of what Christ has accomplished and that he has done it and that there is nothing left for Sinners to do and frankly. There's nothing that we ever could do. And so with that that's what we're talking about here when we when we refer to to calvinistic theology. Yes. There's a famous quote by Spurgeon and I think what he was trying to do was pull pull the title out of Calvinism and he lived says Calvinism is the gospel. He says, yeah, go ahead. Yeah. No, I was just going to say cuz what do you what his point was often? We went, you know often people say well, I don't believe in a man I should I believe in the Bible and all were saying is that historically speaking. This is what the Bible says and if you understand the context of where it comes from. It's just the explanation or the we were arguing over it man, or is it God and childhood? I got in the middle of that argument, right? It's it's pure unadjusted gospel, you know is what we've it's right in spurgeon's quote is yeah. I don't believe that we are preaching the gospel unless we are preaching what is nowadays called Calvinism Calvinism. Yeah. So yeah. So there's the first piece of how we understand reformed theology. It is calvinistic theology. But let's move on to a second major tenets or a second major piece of reformed theology and that is coming into theology. So we recently did a series of five part series that you alluded to an international covenant theology in which I think I made the statement and I stand by this that reformed theology is covenant theology. So these two things are are inextricably linked and even before birth. Recorded this session you and I were debating whether we would do covenant theology or Calvinism first because that's how primary we understand this Covenant respective to be and so just a brief word on the history of this month or maybe consider the theology itself as the Reformation happened in the 16th century in the aftermath of that the people who came out of the Reformation in the reformed tradition them all understood themselves to be governmental and that was true whether you were a presbyterian in terms of your your polity and and the like and how you administered baptism and it also is true of Independence and true of particular Baptists and so broadly speaking in the 17th century, all of those groups of people understood themselves to be governmental. And so that is our heritage as Protestants here in America and certainly for us John as we adhere to the 1689 London Baptist confession that is true for us when we say covenant theology. I'll just kick us off your brother Kang. Lee speaking, we don't just mean that there are covenants in the Bible. We don't just mean that God works through covenants because I think Christians everywhere agree with that statement. We are talking about a a framework through which we understand and interpret scripture and why don't you give us a maybe an overview high level and then maybe we'll unpack some of the pieces underneath that wage historically speaking. There have been developed systems is another way of saying this or I would say lenses or structures that we read the Bible from some of you may have heard of what's called a dispensational understanding of scripture and then counteracted that what we would say is covenantal. So to to Justin's point, we believe that the all of scripture is the unfolding Revelation. It's that the story that's getting progressively more revealed as each page goes through and what is it revealing? It's revealing the Redemption. And of Sinners, it's it's it is fixing what Adam and Eve destroyed and so we would say that Covenant ilysm is a Redemptive historic understanding of scripture where all scripture is the unfolding story of redemption a good example of this is if you were to go to Ephesians chapter one, there is given to us from Paul as I love how Jimmy used the illustration in our covenant theology. See where there's this, you know, quick introduction before the movie begins and ends of injured stores. Yeah. It's the Montage and so before you read Genesis chapter 1 you need to know that there's a conversation that happened between the Father the Son and spirit where there was a promise made and these promises were made between the father and the son that the father would deem he would respect for himself a chosen people that he would save them from their sins and the sun would come and the son committed to the father to obey the will which is to be the replacement to sacrifice and righteousness needed in, New Jersey. Dorothy speaking we have been this is what the reformers would say is what we call the Covenant of redemption. It's a promise that was made to redeem Sinners, right? So from that you've asked well, how is it going to happen? How is he going to redeem Sinners? Well, now you can go to Genesis chapter 3 and begin to read and what you learn is they call what's called by capitalism or two covenants. You learn about cognitive works and the Covenant of Grace and the whole structure of the Bible is the flow the outflow of this one Covenant, you have the governor Redemption. It's now going to be accomplished right through the Covenant of works and the Covenant of Grace So Justin that's kind of the overarching once you give us a more Fuller explanation of bike of animalism. Yes, so I agree with you and I just want to restate something that you just said it's important for understanding that the Covenant of redemption that was made amongst the godhead before the world began wage is what is accomplished in time and space via the Covenant of works in the Covenant of Grace. And so all of history is an unfolding of the Covenant of redemption in that respect. So the the Covenant of works is the Covenant that God makes with Adam in the Garden of Eden we would read about that and Genesis chapter 1 Genesis chapter two where there are positive things commands that God gives to Adam as to what he has to do with his life and there is a Prohibition made I mean and so that is he is not to eat the fruit of a particular tree and there are sanctions placed upon him if he violates that Covenant off the tree of life is there in the garden and the Tree of Life shows up again at the end of the story in the Book of Revelation. And so that we understand is representative of the eternal life that Adam would have achieved and wage. Would have accomplished for his posterity and along with himself had he kept the Covenant but to use the language of the Prophet Hosea. He transgressed the Covenant to use the language of Paul Adam fell off, right? He did not accomplish what God laid out for him. He violated this the prohibition and so the sanctions were rolling forth upon him, you know from that point forward death came in sin entered the world and corruption in the like so then the question is okay this Covenant of works this conditional Covenant that God made with Adam has been broken and things don't look so good at this point how then will the Covenant of redemption be accomplished and that is through as you we've already said the Covenant of Grace that God promises initially in Genesis 3:15, when he spoke to Adam and Eve from the the woman a seed will come who will crush the head of the serpent who is the devil right? And then what happens from that point forward we see dead. The promise of the Covenant of Grace revealed further and further and further through Abraham and Moses and David and then we see the Covenant of Grace itself established through Jesus in the new car accident. And in the Covenant of Grace unlike the Covenant of works. The Covenant of Grace is an unconditional Covenant where we do nothing we receive what Christ has done and counted righteous in him. Our sin is atone for him removed from us and we are reconciled to God and we are Redeemed by grace through faith in Christ alone. And so that's that off that bike of a mental framework of work and Grace and this is introduced here absolutely essential to reformed theology younger brother, right and let me interject here. The word grace is important understand because Grace means to receive unmerited favor, that means you are receiving gifts that you do not deserve or earn. So when we say Covenant of Grace God made wage Promise to give to his chosen people salvation and righteousness so he would cleanse them and then he would make them holy and through glorification through this resurrected body. So when we say God he promised that he promised it to Eve clarified it to Abraham. It's further seen through types and shadows. Meaning that I type is something that is pointing you to something that is farther. Of course, we know what a shadow is, right the shadow is not the actual substance but it is a reflection of the substance. So the Mosaic law becomes this constant Shadow, we use this illustration in the covenant theology series when you are brought a menu, this happened to me last night and on there are pictures of burritos and taquitos and enchiladas. Those are owned not the actual substance. Those are a type of the substance and then they take that menu away cuz I don't need it anymore. Why cuz they're bringing out the actual at a type the bringing out the actual substance. So the dog That estimate is this unfolding story of God giving us more and more and more types. So we can anticipate and with great confidence and Clarity when I shut up when Messiah shows up we can point to him and say yes, that is the type we have been looking for that's the anti that's the actual substance that was promised to Eve and Abraham and Moses and David and the prophets. They all pointed us to the show when we read scripture. We read it with that lens of the unfolding promise of the Covenant Grace that's coming to us. And how did we get the club of Grace? We got it to the Covenant of works or we would say as the Old Testament as a New Testament says the old Covenant. Yeah and a couple of things maybe one. I wanted maybe give one song stration of what you're pointing to, you know, the the types and shadows and stuff because this is I think helpful for people to understand what we're saying. So a lot of times people read the Mosaic law and they'll read about the the sacrificial system and the name A series of these things and clean and unclean and all this stuff. And what does this what does this mean? Ultimately what's this about? So if we think about the sacrificial system it was given initially so that people when they became unclean could be made ceremonially clean again, but and in that sense it purified their flesh to use the language of the writer to the Hebrews, but right the right of the law says the blood of bulls and goats that were sacrificed could never take away sins. That's Hebrews Ten-Four. So then what was the sacrificial system ultimately about it was about the one who would come to be the perfect sacrifice in the place of his people who actually would take away their sins. And this is the language not just the New Testament but the Old Testament, you know, when God will say in Isaiah 43 that I will I I am he who will blot out your transgressions for my own sake and I remember your sins no more or Psalm 103 than our sins are removed from us as far as the East is from the West Palm. And God will no longer deal with us on the basis of our iniquity. That's what would happen through Christ. And that's what all of scripture is pointing us to and so we understand everything in the Bible in light of its main point, which is God's Plan of Redemption accomplished through Jesus and then applied to us certainly by the work of the Holy Spirit and right last comment on covenant theology wage. I think it is I say that I might not be saying that I have some great so but but the Covenant works and government of Grace. Peace. This statement is true. We are saved by works. Just not our own and what we mean by that is that Jesus accomplish has a covenant of Works. He fulfills a covenant of works in the Covenant of Grace in order to accomplish the Covenant of redemption. And so true. We are we are Justified we are declared righteous dead, right? We have standing before God on the basis of Christ's works. So it's not as though God doesn't require works. It's not as though God doesn't require righteousness. It's just that Jesus has done that for us and a tongue into a framework helps us understand exactly how that's the case that everything required was fulfilled and then counted to us in the Covenant of Grace by state. We're about to announce that we have a new free ebook available at our website called Faith vs. Faithfulness a primer unrest and we the host put this together to explain the difference between emphasize job. One's faith in Christ vs. Emphasizing ones faithfulness to Christ and how one leads to rest and how the other often to a lack of assurance and you can get this at Vehicles. Org / primer and if you've been encouraged by what you've been hearing at Theo cast would ask you to help partner with us. You can do that by joining our Total Access membership. That's our monthly membership that gives you access to all of our material that we've produced over the last four years or simply by donating to our ministry and you can do that by going to our website via cast. Org. We hope that you enjoy the rest of the conversation. Yeah, we would say here at Theo cast and and according to the 1689 that the promises of the Covenant of Grace are given to us. In fact if in Abraham and then and then you see it in most in Moses and David and then the profits but the actual establishment of it is in the New Covenant and this is where you hear Paul referencing that we are part of, Georgia. New Covenant where we are regenerate the spirit lives within us we now have Union with Christ now, there's just to throw a hat out there. There are a slight differences between covenant theology. But I would say everything up to this point are paid. All Baptists Presbyterian brothers would agree with us. There's a coming of redemption theirs by Covenant because of work coming of Grace when it comes down to the final application. Some of those there is historically been some differences will leave that for another time another podcast, but I would say that structure of understanding the Bible which is the most important thing to understand. I understand the Bible from a covenant or perspective the unfolding story of God saving Sinners through the story of redemption. That is what defines it as something that's very different than than what's out there historically speaking in in the world. There's a lot of other systems out there some of them more popular than others, but we would say when we say reformed we believe when you approach scriptures. Her leads you to this it's just pulled straight out of the text. We believe in a historic understanding of scripture you look at the grammar. And from that we see that there is this flow of Covenant. So I'm not putting upon the text. We are arguing it's coming from the text it flows out of it. That's right. Absolutely. So if number one was calvinistic theology in terms of wage our five points of reformed theology one is Calvinism. The second is covenant theology. The third we would contend is is a confessional perspective confessional theology. So John, why don't you kick us off with some thoughts on what it means to be confessional. Well, sometimes when people hear this they think well the you have the there's an authority that's greater than the bike. So we you aren't a solar you're not Sola scriptura you're you aren't believing in the Bible of loan that you have to have another document that governs you and we want to clarify that job. All I held that position when I was very young and Bible College, you know, it was no Creed. But Christ, I think I even used that phrase. You know, all confessions are are just smaller smaller Catholic documents that just, you know, there are not needed anymore. And and so we tossed them all aside and what we did when you toss all of the historic faith that has gone before aside you don't realize the pool that you're swimming in and often people step off into the deep end and end up drowning in heresy. So confessions are all come out of heresy. Actually that they're de fighting back against wage the wrong on biblical doctrines that have have come up throughout the ages and the confessions are designed to help give what we would say Unified answer to this historic understanding of Christian doctrine. Now there I would say is primary most important. You cannot deny. If you do deny, you're not a Christian you're not Evangelical and then there are secondary home. Enter we would say third level or tertiary is a word that's used there where you're going to have the different confessions disagree a little bit here. But this is where I would pull in our Lutheran brothers that they are confessional if they fit into this a very historically they they also fought a lot of the battles that we as the reformed had fought defining the nature of the Gospel defining the nature of justification and sanctification, man, we stand arm-in-arm with them. So that would be the quick definition as far as historically And Then There are a different would say prominent confession suggest and let you let you jump in there and kind of talk about what those are and how they apply to our context today. Yeah, man, you made some good points there, even the fact that heresy is what usually gives rise to confessions because Theology and Doctrine need to be clarified in terms of what is orthodox versus what is heterodox. What's false Doctrine? So a lot of times I think a misconception about confessional theology people assume that all we mean by that is that wage, Adhering to a historic and historic confession of faith and certainly it does mean that but it is more than just simply using a confession, you know in in our churches is a a perspective in a posture where we understand that at the heart of the Christian Life is is truth in a set of doctrines and Truth claims that are to be trusted and rest faith in and all of those doctrines and Truth claims that need to be trusted and rested in Center on Jesus Christ. They Center on his person and his work what he has accomplished in our place the name of redemption the nature of Salvation And it is it's a very objective perspective where we are objective meaning it stands unaffected outside of us. We are looking always outside of ourselves to say what's wrong in US versus looking Inward and hoping to find our you know, the ground of our Assurance in our peace there. We are looking outside dog. Ourselves, we're not looking inward to transformation and things like that primarily and it is also a perspective that is grounded in something that is finished. So in that sense, we'll use the word declarative a lot of times. It's something to be declared. It's it's over like salvation is done. It's so done that Jesus is sitting down in heaven and he's going to come back for us. And so we are not concerned primarily with what we need to be doing in order to be retained. We are concerned with what do we need to be trusting in and receiving that Christ has done that has accomplished our Redemption and so it's a fundamentally different orientation and it's a different focus in a different posture that would describe confessional theology versus what is more the norm. I think we should say the norm in right in the evangelicalism certainly in the church in the west is is a more pietistic perspective at pietism is something we talked about a lot here where the focus off. Is on you and you're looking inside and you're concerned primarily with your life your disciplines your performance and Christ, of course is there and he's assumed wage but he is not often times the foreground emphasis focus and that's something that confessionalism does as well. When a Christian first comes to life and Thursday didn't grow up in the church. They don't have any biblical knowledge that the Bible is is full of wonder and it's full of glory and it's full of confusion to those who have no idea how to fix it and you can start reading it and before you know, they're going to Siri to say Hey Siri, why does God hate everybody in the Old Testament and what's with shaving the corner of their beards and long? What's with all of the dead animals just this book. That's what ends up happening within the second chapter II book They're Deuteronomy is what happened here and our sorry third bucks. So what what month? Questions do for the new believer is that it has them in a historic document that has been verified. Yeah from scripture you these aren't documents that are above scripture. They are the explanation of scripture and they have been I would say clarified in affirmed for hundreds of years. Now that this is what we collectively say and agree that the word of God teaches and the way I use it. It has been in my own church as I tell people take this home because if you have questions about who is God, how does he save? What is sanctification? What is the church? What is baptism took the Lord's table? What is church discipline? How do we understand church membership? All of these are going to be given in a simple paragraph explanations with versus underneath them to help you understand collectively how it is that we should know who God is and then how we should live with one another and how we should govern our lives in that way. Otherwise you're dead. Up to all kinds of interpretation of gods of God's word. So the confessions of what I would say help give us bumpers to keep us moving in the right direction through God's word that we don't end up being, you know home Heretics and that's another word right? We're trapped out in yeah confessional theology in that sense. John is just Jude three, you know, it's it's a passing down of the faith once for all delivered to the Saints and it's right and you're exactly right the confessions provide for us. They took to talk the field theologically their guard rails, like you said to keep us from from heading into the ditches and I think they are also a great lesson for us in understanding that the ology is best done corporately not individually and this is something that is prevalent in our day where people are not as confessional but then what they end up doing is they end up following the doctrine or Theology of one man or the doctrine of Theology of one Church. You know, I'm a I'm a I'm a follower of this person or I like this guy's theology or this guy wrote that book and it you know, it is basically the the framework through which I understand things now, that's that's a lot more precarious in dangerous. Than it is to look back to like you said documents that were produced by oftentimes large groups of people that have stood the test of time, you know, and just maybe last, before we transition to to our next piece when we say confessional underneath that that maybe is even more foundational historically would be you know, creedal we are creedal Christiansburg. Well and meaning that we adhere to the ancient Creeds of the church, which the three ancient Creed's that that we would adhere to most notably are the Apostles Creed the Nicene Creed in the athanasian Creed black and that's where we have overlapped with any, you know, Orthodox Christian throughout history would have a throws Creeds and then we have specific confessions that might distinguish us from you know, our Presbyterian brothers or our Lutheran brothers are Anglican brothers and sisters et cetera. But yeah, it's it's useful stuff that keeps us safe and you know guards us off. From error brother. So we've gone through the first three the three C's have been covered calvinistic theology covenant. Theology confessional. Theology are all a piece of what it means to be reformed. What would we say next month if we were trying to explain to somebody who's new to this? Yeah, and I would say since we've hit this point on confessionalism. All four other points are seen in our confession so much of what pulled out. Yeah, so I would say the confession really does help provide for us to calvinistic coven dental and now I'm going to say the next to which our law gospel distinction an ordinary means so all of these you will see throughout scripture the confession points these out for you that God is Sovereign in Salvation that he had complices through governmental ISM and or through college students and there is a distinct understanding between the law and the gospel and then the way in which the church interacts with that is what we call through ordinary means so we we get this from our confessions home. Specifically the reform Confections which you know belgic Westminster 1689 would be the ones that we would would see those in Savoy declaration would fit there too. But yeah Savoy exactly Savoy declaration as well. So long gospel distinction is I think one of the most important parts of understanding the Bible because there is more confusion that happens when it comes down to the law and the gospel and a lot of pietism in a lot of people who are in bondage to legalism happens when we don't fully understand how the Bible has been structured home as a message of Law and a message of gospel. So just to give us give us a quick definition of both of those so then we can explain where possibly those are mixed in scripture and then we'll talk about the three uses of the law after that. Sounds good, man. When we say law we are talking about anything in Scripture that we are told to do any command that has given in particular when we are told to do something wrong or a reward do this and you will live that's law. So in a simple way do is law but then when we are told in scripture to make the distinction of things that have been done for us by Jesus that's gospel. So when it comes to law we do things for reward when it comes to gospel we received what has been done for us by faith. So that distinction is critical as you've already alluded to for a number of reasons. And so yeah, the the law says do this and live the gospel song. Jesus has done it now live in him. And so that's a I would add to that. Yeah, right and I would add to that when it's law it's not best effort. It's not Above the Rest. It's not it's perfect. Right more often more good it right the law demands absolute perfection from the beginning to the end without failure ever. So it's not eventually you get there. It has to be from day one right off. We see this in a couple of ways pointedly in the Bible. I mean, first of all that Covenant of works that God made with Adam we saw that one transgression wrecked it it was over trying but they think about Jesus in The Sermon on the Mount when he says that to his audience that their righteousness needs to exceed that of the Pharisees and the scribes who were phenomenal at keeping the law least outwardly. He applies the law to the hearts of the people right by especially illustrating that with adultery and murder and what the command says, but I tell you that in your heart if you're not keeping the boss. Then you've broken the law and then he says toward the end of Matthew Chapter 5 that you must be perfect as your heavenly father is perfect. And so you're exactly right. The law does not get on a curve. It is all or nothing. You will keep it perfectly or you will face judgment. And yeah, I mean that's that's critical for for our understanding of of what the law requires and and what the law is in scripture over and against what the gospel provides right? I would say to the gospel. We have to clarify the gospel gospel is good news. And the good news is that this goes back to our understanding of how God Saves The Gospel is the good news that God Saves Sinners by his Sovereign will and decree and buried his power that he comes in and he changes their heart. He brings them from Death to life which the promise of the New Covenant the promise of the New Covenant is that God will come in and rip out there hotter Stone. Todd will put in a heart of Flesh and then God will put the law on their hearts and he will cause them to walk in it. The good news is that God Saves Sinners and then he calls them to come to him. The good news is that you can be saved by God and the the good the only requirement that is put upon the sinner. There's one requirement and that requirement is to believe right word and some would even say well no John repentance is a requirement. Go ahead Justin. No, I was just going to say that you hear the language these days of the demands of the gospel and what the gospel requires us. And we do we want to scream from the rooftops. Like there's one believe trust that's right to receive. Yeah. So when we were going to say gospel repentance, yeah, right. So we hear gospel we need to hear God is saving Sinners. There's there's you can't save yourself cuz what that's what Paul says is that the law becomes a mirror for us. It's for us to look into and see our sin and see where we have failed God and see where we need a savior. So the law can never save long has never saved anyone nor was it ever designed to save anyone because you're born in Adam a sinner the law cannot redeem you the law was designed to show you how much you need Jesus. So the gospel then Proclaim to you when you hear the gospel the Bible says the spirit does his work he transforms your heart you then believed you then repent then you then become the follower of Jesus Christ where he now is your slave. I'm sorry. You're a his slave and he is your master, which is a great news, which means since June Onew no more. Nothing can own, you know more because you are owned by the gracious kind loving savior who is now your Master's so that's the good news of the Gospel. Now when we stock a law gospel distinction Justin, maybe we need to give an illustration of where those get mixed and how we have to keep them apart. Sure. Maybe a brief thought on repentance really quickly John. I mean the the vehicle word for that cuz would you you mentioned it earlier. I just want to clarify the Biblical word. Metanoia is it literally means a change of mind and to be very clear repentance is something that God does for us he does to us. He repents us. We don't repent ourselves but the change of mind well, what's it about it's about God and about ourselves and what God requires and where we stand before him what we need and the law is a big piece of how God repents us because we're going to try a minute God crushes us with the law and what it requires we are ruined by wage. And then we are driven to Christ in Repentance and faith. I would contend that biblically speaking repentance and Faith are they go together? You can't separate the two because it is off a piece of what God is doing in us. He repents us and grants us Faith. So our law gospel distinction, you said, you know, maybe give an example of how these things are collapsed or confused. There are many things that we could get. I'm happy to give a scriptural example. Like that's what I mean. That is often abused great. Yeah. So the best one that I can think of John and we've mentioned this before but many people may not have heard us talk about it before is the Rich Young Ruler the Rich Young Man where this this man comes to Jesus. He's a Jew and he asks Jesus, you know in in Matthews account. He literally says off work must I do to inherit eternal life in Luke's account. He just says what must I do to inherit eternal life in Jesus looks at him and he says, well you keep the Commandments and then he lists wage. Several of them and the young man says, well, I've done that. I've done that since I was a youth and then Jesus responds by saying well one thing I you still lack sell everything you have give it to the poor come and follow me and the young man goes away dejected sorrowful. Well what's going on there? What is going on is that this man thinks he has kept the law and what Jesus does in saying to him sell everything. You don't give it to the poor come follow me. He is asking this map to prove his love for God and his love for neighbor cuz the the law of God is summed up in what love the Lord your God with all your heart soul mind and strength and love your neighbor as yourself when Jesus asks this young man. Tuja Groove that he can't it crushes him. Jesus has turned up the temperature. He has dumped the full weight of the law on this young man's conscience. And this young man is undone. Now, the disciples hear this and and see what's going on. And remember in their minds think Covenant with Israel, right? God bless his own people with riches and possessions and the like for their obedience to the law. Because that's what God had done in his National Covenant with Israel. And so they're thinking my goodness. This man has wealth. This means he's obedient. This means that he's lived a good life Jesus if he can't be saved who can be saved in Christ says well with man, it's impossible. But with God, it's possible. Well, the way that this text is often preached on I've heard this a bunch of times. I'm sure you have to write is unique to surrender all you need to be willing to surrender everything and then follow Christ. If you're going to be saved there's this qualifier put on saving Faith like you've got to be willing to do what that young man was not willing to do and that's not the point. The point is you can't do this the young man thought he'd kept the law. Jesus was like you haven't and I'm going to show you you haven't in the fact that you need what standing in front of you you need me, right? That's the point of that passage. And so that's a great maybe illustration sort of of those of the law gospel distinction that we're pointing to yeah. Yep. I would say this happens a lot in scripture where you see commands and you see instructions and I would even say there are many times when Jesus is asked what must I do to be saved or or Sinners come to him certainly and he doesn't give them gospel gospel is the good news that Jesus Christ saves Sinners by his work alone. When Jesus says You must do this work, that's not good. That's bad news right to to to leave father and mother and force a call and follow me is not good news. That's bad news because no one can do that not on their own not fully not completely it always requires God's power to accomplish it. So we would say we have to be we have to be careful. I would say also where you see a collapsing of the law. The gospel is when we see obedience passages when we see when we are called to obey which were at this is going to lead into our next section of the third uses three uses of the law when we are called to a pig Do these things as church or even we would say the moral law that's brought over. If you don't if you understand to do those unto salvation, you are now collapsing the law of requirement and the gospel wage. So those who have been saved Paul tells us there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus by faith. We have all the benefits of Christ Our Union with Christ being adopted as children. We are safe there is there's nothing that can separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus. Now being a part of family of God, there are ways in which we are to conduct ourselves and we are told that these things are important and if we don't conduct ourselves in these ways that the church has a structure called church discipline we were to go in and lovingly care for each other bring each other back under this loving kindness that God has but you can never wage or look at obedience being either the result of or the requirement of your salvation. You have just collapsed good news and law the law and the good news of the gospel song. Always have to be separate. Otherwise salvation is by works in some form whether it's keeping salvation or earning salvation. Yeah, John, I want to use a term really quickly that I hope will wage will be clarifying four people. There are there are people who mean well their their intentions are good. We would never impugn their motivations who we would call biblicist. So who wants to take the Bible seriously on its own terms, but often what they end up doing is introducing a mystery and attention into scripture where it does not exist. So a biblicist would take things that are clearly taught in the Bible in somewhat picked up against each other for example on the one hand. We are saved by grace through faith in Christ alone, but on the other hand, we will go to hell if we do these certain things. So for the biblicist, it's like well the mystery is how both of these things could be true and we would say, well actually there's not a mystery there what has happened is you have collapsed categories and you have confused categories of Law and gospel. And so that that law gospel distinction that we've been talking about can help us understand that very thing how we're saved by grace through faith in Christ alone and yet the writers in the New Testament wage like the sexually immoral not inherit the kingdom of God this has everything to do with that distinction between the law and the gospel but also with respect to the three uses of the law and how they have been historical defined all of that can bring a lot of clarity and a lot of relief for people in a greater understanding of what what's being talked about in scripture. So we plan over in the members podcast to define the three choices of the law as they have been historically understood and we plan to talk about our fifth point of reformed theology, which is an ordinary means of Grace understanding of the Christian Life and even of the month of growth and sanctification in the Christian Life. If you are unfamiliar with fear passed and with the members podcast, you don't even know what I'm talking about. You can find out more information about our membership club. And the podcast that is a piece of that and our website via cast. Org and just by way of an announcement. We plan to offer the members podcast today for free so that you can continue to track us as we have defined these Five Points of your warranty ology John and I are making our way to the members podcast and we will talk with you over there.

John Moffitt Paul Adam Justin Purdue Jesus Theo castbox Grace Covenant of Grace New Covenant Reformed Church Christian Life Reformed Church Covenant Baptist Church Theology and Doctrine Abraham North Carolina Covenant Grace Reformed Church Spring H David Moses Jimmy Bueller
Q&A: Confessional Theology, Justification & Sanctification, and Church Discipline

Theocast - Reformed Theology

52:43 min | 6 months ago

Q&A: Confessional Theology, Justification & Sanctification, and Church Discipline

"Hi this is Justin Today on. Theo cast we do our first ever live online. Qna We to host talked about it and thought it would be a good idea in light of the Kovic nineteen pandemic and all the quarantine stuff. That's going on for many of us that this could be a way to get people together. Theo cast community together online. And take some questions and have an encouraging conversation and there were some wonderful question submitted. We only got to a few of them. Unfortunately we talked about a number of things including confessional theology and how. That's a help to us. In Times like now. We consider church discipline justification sanctification and then in the members podcast we talked about how to preach obedience in light of the sufficiency of Christ. And we also talk some about fear based preaching. We hope that this conversation and these. Qna's that we we do our an encouragement to you stay tuned. Hey guys is a quick reminder. If you'd like to join Theo cast and helping other people find rest in Christ. A simple way of doing that is simply by living. Us review on itunes or your favorite podcast APP. You can also leave reviews on all of our books are available at Amazon Dot Com. And if you haven't started following us on twitter instagram or facebook yet. That's a great way to take our content and then share it with your friends and family to learn more about how to support simply visit the dot Org Slash. Give you welcome to the o cats encouraging weary films to rest in. Christ conversations about the Christian life from a reformed perspective are host. Today are John Moffatt. Pastor of grace reformed church and Spring Hill. Tennessee Jimmy Bueller Pastor of Christ community church in Wilmer Minnesota and Myself Justin Purdue Pastor of Covenant Baptist Church in Asheville North Carolina Reverend. We have met to podcast day and it is a special day. Here at the list of podcast. Unlike any other at least an hour experience up to now we are doing this. Live in front of a number of our friends and brothers and sisters in the faith. So I don't know about you. I'm feeling a little bit of extra pressure. We don't get to do as much editing as we might normally do right in a regular show and there is a lot going on on my screen right now messages flying in and yeah the extrovert in me. Wants to reply to all of them and I'm gonNA fight that desire so that we try to stay on task. That's right. John Why don't you? Why don't you brother help the listeners who are not partaking in this live Webinar thing? We've got going on understand what we're doing today and why we're doing it well As everybody already knows the whole world is feeling the effects of the corona virus specifically the majority of our listeners. We do have listeners. All over the world but majority of them here in the United States and most people are at home with extra time and so we thought we would participate with them in any way that we can provide more content We're also GONNA open up a lot of the stuff that we have for a membership for free because we we know that people are scouring for good information especially when it seems like most information that is on the Internet right now is negative and full of fear and there is much to be afraid of but I think at the same time we need to be feeding ourselves with good information objective realities that we remind ourselves that we are within the hand of God and be safe within his hands at the same time. we use wisdom so speaking of we did a podcast When was that yesterday Tuesday I wasn't sure Yup Times by the way we did a podcast on joy in the midst of suffering in reference to the corona virus. So today we thought we'd do something different for those of you there at home without we do something. Live use technology using Zoom so we have. We're using zoom Webinar. We have almost four fifty people right now. That are in here asking questions all kinds of great comments and so if you WANNA ask your question just to remind you if you're new You can come over here into the at the bottom where it says questions and you will be able to ask those down there if you're interested in being a on the podcast on the audio just lettuce no by putting you're willing to ask your question audibly and we will take that in an open open up and let you answer so that's kind of where we're at today. We've we've picked three questions that were emailed in to start us off and then we will grab several of these. That are being put in at the moment. There is absolutely no way. We're going to be able to get to all of these so we're going to spend about forty five minutes answering your questions and then we will do. We'll go over the members podcast and do another twenty ish minutes. Will you never know how long that podcast will be? You just kind of gets to the point until we're done depends on. How Spicy into questions are? It's it's at least fifteen minute house and how fired up we get. I guess well and if we have anything that we if we don't get recording right away we run out of time so I think we're good today so Jimmy. Why don't you go ahead and start with our first question? Sure glad to do that. So this one comes from Stuart and his question is this would be interested to hear how confessional ISM strengthens us in the middle of this pandemic. Which for me. And I'm sure others has brought up much UNBELIEV and out that was present but not stood up in the heart until trouble came. So that's a great question steuer and actually yesterday the podcast that we three recorded we talk about this a little bit but a great source of comfort that all three of us found actually came from the confession that our church uses. Which is the sixteen eighty nine London Baptist Confession Chapter Five Talks About Divine Providence and In paragraph one of Chapter Five. I won't read it per se but it talks about the infinite power and wisdom of God that he upholds and directs and governs all things and all creatures Specifically I think what we found in paragraph three was particularly helpful when he said are when the framers of this confession when they write in his ordinary providence. God makes use of means though he is free to work apart from them beyond them and contrary to them out his pleasure and so as we think about the global pandemic that has really blow brought the world to its collective knees It's it's difficult. And being guys that rely heavily on the ordinary means of grace that God uses the preaching of the word the words visible at baptism and the Lord's table to strengthen create establish faith. It's painful for us as pastors to not be able to gather with our people and yet we also understand that Justin coined this probably yesterday where we are in extraordinary times will also give us extraordinary grace. And so we we rest in those things. And so you have confessional ISM Kinda add a paper level but you also have confessional ism kind of add a thirty thousand foot level that the truth that we have constantly harped on in this podcast that that we find rest in Christ outside of ourselves that what God has given us in Christ in the Gospel Perfect righteousness imputed to us through no effort or merit on our own. Those things even remain true in the midst of a pandemic so even when things are going well when you are able to attend to gather worship with the saints that you are able to have the word of God preached over you. You see the Gospel in the table even when you quote unquote feel good And you're able to function in your everyday life in a normal sense. Those things are true but but even now when we're kind of sheltered in place when it's very easy to be discouraged to feel lonely to feel isolated and and to feel socially distant from people those objective truths of the imputed righteousness of Christ your account. They're still there. They didn't go anywhere You know I I just think of you know places in scripture like Psalm. Thirteen where the PSALMIST cries out to. God He asked God for help and for faith. But he recounts the faithfulness of the word in the past and this is something that I shared with my church last Sunday over facebook. Live that you know we rest in the truth that God is not distant that Jesus is not distant from sin and death but rather he was crucified he was buried with sin and death and he rose again defeated them. Both and so I mean just to encourage you. I mean I don't know where you specifically are But but just to encourage you that the truth is that you fight to believe that God is for you in Christ that he has from eternity past chose you to be his own. Those shoes are still there in a time of pandemic. I don't know if you guys want to jump in on that topic as well. I'll jump in really quick. Jimmy I think to be confessional. Might help to state this clearly to be confessional certainly does mean that we hold to a confession of faith and for for all of us. It's a confession of faith out of the the era of the reformation or the era that flowed out of the reformation in the case of like the sixty ninety nine or the Westminster Confession for example. But it also means that we are. We are confessing right. We are saying together believing together. We are looking to doctrines and truths from scripture. That we are to rest in and trust and so two words that we often use on. Theo CAST TO DESCRIBE THE CONFESSIONAL PERSPECTIVE. Are that it is an objective. Perspective is an outside of us reality so as Jimmy just alluded to were looking to Christ who is outside of us were looking to God who is outside of us. We're looking to these great truths and promises of God that exist outside of us in our experience. And then also the other thing is that to be. Confessional is to believe in an and hold too declarative realities. Meaning that they're done. They're finished and so when we're looking to things entrusting and things that are outside of us and that are completed they're finished and they're not in jeopardy those things transcend all circumstances and they transcend all of our emotional volatility. It matters not how I'm feeling today or how I'm processing the cove in nineteen pandemic today the trews of God remain and as Jimmy said the righteousness of Christ for me remains the atoning satisfying work of Christ for me remains my safety in Christ my standing before God. All of those things are rock solid because their objective outside of me and they're declared if they're done and so that's how confessional perspective gives us rock under our feet when as as we sing in the him when all around my soul gives way right like he then is all my hope and stay. Well that's that's a confessional perspective that's right we are. We're looking to those things in particular. We're looking to God in Christ. Jesus for us in the midst of all kinds of storms and things that are swirling around our lives or a justin. You want me. I don't have much added. That was excellent guys. I'm GonNa Actually Find Marisa here. She is we're so hopefully you're ready. We're GONNA bring you on and let you ask what Mersa please state your first last name and where you're from so I'm ruth. I live on the Theo. Cast group and facebook world now. Technically I live in Georgia. So yeah we're a little bit on lab anyway. I'll ask my question. I WanNa thank you guys for what you do. You bring a lot of comfort to God's people whether we're in a pandemic or not you're always bringing the gospel spy appreciate that So I just wondered if you talk a little bit about Church discipline at what point at what point Which is said that this is a pattern and not a struggle and it would. Why would you say that a Kirsten should be under church to supplant or excommunicated from the church? That's hard yeah yeah. That is a good question. I want to publicly. Thank you for those of you. That may not know she is one of the Adnan's on our facebook group and absolutely crushes it and She catches things when I don't even see them coming. So thank you so much for that. All Right yes thanks Guys that is a. I got a really good question I think that when you're dealing first of all I know every guy is GonNa say that Church discipline has to be dealt with patiently and it is a very long process because I have personally seen cases where we confront a man who is open. The incentive admits that he's openly in San. He's even sat down with the elders and says I do not WANNA repent. I'm going to pursue this and we could have at that moment. Just done church discipline but we said look. We're going to pray for you. We're GONNA give you time and sure enough We we give him a month. We prayed for And no change another month. Try to meet with them. Individually and praise God on month three he repented and he. You know we didn't. We didn't have to go to that final step and bring it to the congregation now. Unfortunately I've been in situations where the exact opposite is true. And you do that same process and I think the difference of it is if someone is unwilling to acknowledge that they are trapped in sin and unwilling to repent after Multiple Times of being gracious to pray with them confront them show them from scripture. I think you've encountered it. And they are obviously being self destructive in their send publicly well known that everyone around them can see that. This is the case and you. I think you have to have that conversation with them. Do you understand that? What you are doing is so damaging to yourself into your faith and that it's destroy destructive in nature that the best thing for you is to understand how serious this is that we're going to have to one remove you from the table like that's that's step one and then after that if you still aren't willing to repent then we're going to need to remove you from fellowship so that you understand the seriousness of this. This should never be out of anger out of judgmental ism out of how dare you because as glaciers six one says that when we confront someone incen- we should be careful that we to ourselves don't fallen to send That's how I would initially. I know that both you guys have thoughts on this. So that's how I initially. I think if you look at it from scripture you have to look at Comparing everything there is about Church discipline along with glaciers. Six One. You will see that. This is a long painstaking gracious. Tyne that it should not be done quickly. Yeah I mean I I would add to that One of the clearest places that we see in scripture where church discipline takes places and I Corinthians chapter five and you know that's that's an extraordinary case where you have a man in the church who is committing a heinous sin in that case it was sexual immorality. But but what you see is that it was like this flippant. I don't care about what I'm doing. I don't care about who am hurting. And so what you have is Paul the Apostle also the planter of that church coming in and telling the elders the overseers of that church to to discipline that that man to remove him from the midst of the church because of the damage. Not only that. It's going to cause him personally but it's also going to cause the greater church and so like Jon said each each case has to be handled with extreme care There's I don't think that there's going to be a a single answer for every case But but once you start to see like this. High handed flippant rejoicing in my sin rather than repenting of it and turning to Christ I think that's one of the elders of the church have to step in not only for the soul of that individual but also for the care of the larger flock of sheep that since breads like poison And and went. People Begin in the current case. They were even openly celebrating. This guy's Sen And and that's what Paul's great concern was there now. I think that one of the maybe perhaps to put the question in somebody's Mouth. Is You know what about the person who can has that. That damage conscience where they feel like well. I'm always I'm always incent. And there is a difference between somebody who struggles with their own frame and a Roman seven cents. You know somebody that's struggling with and the things that I WANNA do. I don't do the things that I don't WanNa do. I keep on doing. You know who will save me from this? You know I mean Kaz certainly were all there. We all we all church discipline is not about. You know who's WHO's crushing it. In the Christian life but church discipline is about more so the individual. The person who is by their actions going to destroy or bring harm to the body Jp I think you wanted to say a few things as well. Sir To pick up on. I Corinthians five that you mentioned Jimmy I do think that's the clearest passage that we can go to Jesus obviously has some words about this in Matthew Chapter Eighteen. That are helpful for us as well. The reason that Paul rebukes the church in Corinth and I think he's rebuking all of them absolutely. Jimmy's point into to kind of expand on that just a moment is the fact that they should have been grieved by this man sin but instead verse two of Screenings Five Paul says but instead you are arrogant like they are in one sense seeing this as an appropriate expression of Christian freedom and they are boasting in what this man is doing rather than being grieved and seeing that this would not only destroy this man but it could it could bring harm upon the entire church in needed to be dealt with and Paul is very clear in the context of First Corinthians five that the goal of church discipline is restoration. After I think we all need to approach church discipline with that in view. This is not a blunt instrument to be wielded around this kind of delight. Bludgeoned people with rightly. We want to be very precise and how we do this. We want to be gracious. We WanNa be careful and we WANNA make sure that the point of it all and we'd communicate this to the church as we try to lead the church through it is to see this individual restored and to see this individual flourish. You know in in Christ and so. I do think that the big difference between two Marissa's question may be pointedly. At what point is this not like a struggling center anymore? Like the Romans. Seven Reality Galicians. Five seventeen reality wind wind. Does this become a case where church discipline is necessary so I do think the sin needs to be clear? It needs to be demonstrable but then I to use some of the language Jimmy used. I wrote these same things down on my whiteboard here. It's a kind of high handed sin. It's hard hearted and it's unrepentant. And so what that means is an individual is in sin and will say well one of two or three things well. Yeah I'm sending and I just don't care I realize it sin not bothering me. Not Worried about it. Who are you to tell me how to live? I'm going to continue doing what I WANNA do. Don't care or it might be a posture like this. Yeah God's Word Seems Pretty Clear that this is sin and and I understand that the teaching of our Church and the teaching of our pastors is that this is sin. But I don't think it sin and I'm just gonNA keep doing it. That's also a high handed approach in and also just this kind of ongoing rip unrepentant posture over the course of not like days or weeks. But we're talking like months and months where it's obvious that this kind of hard hearted posture is enduring. And then I think that's very different than the person who is grieved and bothered by his or her sin now none of us are ever grieved as we should be. We were never bothered as much as we should be. But there is something in us as regain people and because we have the spirit in. That's it's our inner man were bothered by our sin and so. There's this constant cycle that were like where we do transgress in what God says is good we send and then we. We acknowledge it. We own it and we repent and we. We cast ourselves in new in one sense on the mercy of God in Christ in submission even to the doctrine and teaching of the church. And so I think that's that's the easiest way that I know to answer this And it's something that I know. We've practiced in our context and it's hard and I know you you brothers John. You have and Jimmy. I trust you. Will you know in in your church and it's always very sober in heavy and it's something that That the Lord does though us for good in the life of the of the church and in the lives of the Saints Right Even of those of us who are not being disciplined at the time it's a it's a sobering reality where we're all like man if it were not for the grace of God go I and Lord may never be me and and we're praying for our brother or sister that he or she would be restored anyway. Yeah it's a great question at excellent Yashin absolutely. Yeah so I am happy to to tee up now John On on the Hebron did he returned question. Be Right so this question comes from Andrew. His question is this. How do you see Hebrews ten twenty five in its immediate context of persecution being honored in the face of the present pandemic that persecutes the church as well as the decree that has gone out in the land to not gather so Andrew? Thank you for your question. Hebrews ten twenty five is is the verse that says we are not to neglect the assembling of ourselves together. As is the habit of some and I. I know we've talked about this in my own. Local church context and the guys we've talked about it sort of off the mic on on. Theo cast. It's not going out on the air. Anything I know my own. Understanding of Hebrews twenty-five would would not be so much a a situation where we are. Providential hindered from gathering that's being described but it would be the willful neglect of the corporate assembly. That's what the writer to the Hebrews is warning people against it will not go well for you if you willfully neglect assembling together. Because this is how God has meant to work in your life ordinarily so this brings us back to something that Jimmy mentioned already. We understand these are exceptional times where the government of our land is not uniquely singling out churches. It'd be one thing if the government had said well continue going to theaters bars and clubs and doing everything you normally do. But don't go to Church. That would be very different than what the government is doing. And most of our locales and our states where it's a broad sweeping saying where they're requesting or advising or mandating that we not gather in groups larger than ten or fifty or whatever and so the way that that we are approaching this in my church and I know these brothers behind the mic agree. Here is that out of interest to submit to our government in something that is reasonable in light of a passage like room's thirteen and also in the interest of loving neighbor and trying to help play our part in promoting public health. We we have foregone gathering together for a season of time so we understand these are exceptional times. This is just for context. Some maybe aware of this in terms of peace time. This is the first time in one hundred and two years that the any government agency in the United States is asked people not to gather like this. The last time this happened was in nineteen eighteen with the Spanish flu pandemic. So this is a once in a century kind of thing so these are exceptional times under the providence of God and what we are trusting is as I said on the podcast. Yesterday that will come out at some point. Is that when in these exceptional times? When we are being kept from the ordinary means we trust that God will give extraordinary grace and so we. We trust him to do that in these times that are exceptional and so we do not understand churches to violating Hebrews. Ten twenty five in this really unusual season. Where were providential hindered from gathering? Now it'll be different. You know if when things opened back up and and all of that and we're back to normal life if people are neglecting the assembly then we would understand them to be in violation of Hebrews ten twenty five and we would be encouraging and pleading with those people. You need to be with the saints on the Lord's Day. Yeah and I would say. We answered that question and a very long answer next week. We're going to move all podcast back and we'll put out the the one that we did yesterday out next week's exactly so what John is saying. Is that the the Cova. Nineteen conversation we had yesterday will will go live next. Wednesday. She'll be able to hear it. Then we're excited to announce that we have a new free available. At our website called faith versus faithfulness a primer on rest and we the host. Put this together to explain. The difference between emphasizing one's faith in Christ versus emphasizing once faithfulness to Christ and how one leads to rest in. How the other often to a lack of assurance. And you can get this at Theo. Cast DOT org slash primer? And if you've been encouraged by what you've been hearing the Oh cast would ask you to help partner with us. You can do that by joining our total access membership. That's our monthly membership. That gives you access to all of our immaterial that we've produced over the last four years or simply by donating to our ministry and you can do that by going to our website. Theo cast out work. We hope that you enjoy the rest of the conversation awesome. Jimmy did you have another one. Yeah like another question. You mean yes I. There are only a few. I wanted to take this one right once like this one from Jonathan. He says what advice would you give pastors? Who are church planting when they feel discouraged about New People not coming to church or when the pastors feel incompetent because of a struggle with sin? And so I. I'm GonNa Yell Jonathan for Reading. My Mail and Second so Jonathan I mean honestly. You're you're speaking to me because you know we as as Christ Community Church we. John was just here. In December and kind of officially launched launched us. And I mean I'll just be frank with you. We launched with a six families and we've added a family since them So I mean just realize that where we are in our culture It's no longer a place that you go to church in order to kind of conduct business as it used to be. It's not like a socially driven thing But also what us three guys have kind of had offline conversations all about this about church planting things like that and one of the things we continually circle back to is that it's it's very easy to become kinda slave to the tyranny of the urgent that you're always counting numbers on a Sunday morning a given Sunday morning and feeling like are we doing something wrong that were not growing exponentially and frankly. I had to make a conscious decision to not really read much. That is out there regarding church planting right now because there's all sorts of nonsense out there that gives you unrealistic metrics and goals and different things. Where honestly you have to kind of know your context the neighborhood or the city or the place where you are planting a church and so for our context. Wilmer Minnesota is the city wilmer. According to last census I'll be curious about this. Census is only twenty thousand. And so we're not gonNA see this explosive growth that you might see in a suburb Where you know a lot of people are moving and perhaps they you know they're interested in these kinds of things being part of church and so I mean honestly I would I would say. Don't be discouraged in the short term but rather be faithful with the sheep that God has has given you love them. Give them Christ show them Jesus and and frankly you trust God for the growth. You know I mean this is First Corinthians Chapter Three. I mean who are. Who are you You know you you water and you plant and God gives growth and so we trust God that as we as we faithfully do the ordinary means of grace that That we feed people. We show them. Jesus that naturally those people will want to show other people Jesus and so I think there's a deep call to patients and I'm really preaching to myself right now and then. I think the second part of your question is is really good. It's a really excellent question of when pastors feel incompetent because of a struggle with sin brother that is a daily reality for me That you read some of the things In the New Testament and you just you struggle with the fact that you sin and you blow it and you blow it a lot and so I think being aware of your own weakness of your own failures of your own shortcomings is actually very helpful. Because it kind of brings you down of your own pedestal. As the pastor to feel high and above other people. But you know as as Luther so famously said that we as pastors we. We are beggars. Who found bread and we are showing other people where they can find bread to you know that that certainly we are not. We're not calling for ELAX. Lackadaisical approach to to character and to Gaba Karen in the life of the pastor. But at the same time what we are saying. Is You know who who preaches grace? The best other than those who have seen the wickedness of their own heart but also the depth of God's grace as given to us in Christ Jesus so Jimmy do that a couple of comments one. I think the most effective preachers are the guys who are most in touch with the depth of their own corruption. Because I mean so. Yeah we all battles in all the time. And I and I think when that battle with sin is on our minds and hearts and we're we are constantly having to look outside of ourselves to cries for Righteousness then that that Fuels Gospel. Preaching in the pulpit. Because we're we're holding out the centers. The only hope that we know we have and yeah. It's it's a good thing that one other thought to all of us have planted churches and you deal with very small numbers early on and and growth sometimes can be slow. It's always slower than we want it to be. And sometimes pastoring a small church can be can be its own unique kind of challenge and some of that is in our own consciences in our Egos and everything Elson. There's a quote from from a pastor named John Brown. This is back in Scotland in late. Seventeen hundreds and he's writing to a young minister in his area and he's riding to this young man and he says I know this is a paraphrase a said. I know that you are mortified in our self conscious about the small number of your congregation. But I promise you that on the day when you stand before the Lord. You will know that you've had enough meaning. There is so much responsibility and wait in pastoring. Even a few dozen people absolutely we. We ought not confused. What in the world were doing and be so caught up in numbers and size and metrics and everything else. Yeah so that's how we want our churches to grow. We want to see people come to faith. We want to see people grow in the faith and grow in their knowledge and understanding and and in even in their resting in Jesus But there's a lot a lot more to it than just how big our churches or yeah and if I if I could just kind of chime back in you know something that people ask me all the time and this is kind of the struggle of a church planter is. Are you guys exploding? Are you growing like crazy and something I just constantly have to be? Mindful of is Man. Would if would if we doubled in a Sunday? Would if we doubled in a week The amount of pressure and stress at that would bring me that. It's like well man now now. We we've moved from thirty on a Sunday to sixty on a Sunday. And who's going to reach those people who's GonNa love those people who's going to care for those people and so we have. I consciously made an effort in our church plant and voice this to our people that we WANNA pray for slow and steady growth that we don't want to go from thirty to a one hundred eighty six months because that's going to bring all sorts of pains and problems one van pride probably being pride and ego and so we just want to be sensitive to the people that are in our midst. The children that are in their midst. We WanNa love them. Serve them care for them. Well because if we are just aiming for growth if we're aiming for numbers and New People come into our midst they're gonNA smell out right away that they're gonNA start to feel like projects and other people are going to start to feel like numbers and not sheep and so we want to practice loving and serving and caring for one another well even as a small church so that Lord Willing by His grace when we grow we can easily envelope new people into the fold will Rican show them Christ Berry easily. Yeah and if you establish that kind of a culture that culture grow with you absolutely right. Yeah Yeah Yeah and just before we jump to the next question. I'll just add that. The most encouraging thing you can do for your people is to help them learn to love neighbor and in doing that they'll they will find joy because if you're if the ambition of the church or the mission of the church is to to to see what the numerical growth can be You will never feel a sense of community. You're always going to be looking and being disappointed. But if the mission of the church is to care and love for each other understand that God uses the affections of each other to draw people into it and then help your church to find ways to love neighbor. That's next to them there. And that is their literal neighbors. People who work People they associate at the soccer field or whatever then they feel like they are doing ministry that they are reaching out Because it all depends. I was talking with the pastor of this week. Who Lives in North Dakota of town four hundred churches fifty? Which if you do the math on that. That's my shirts quite a ratio greater. Reach you of the town is fantastic. It's you know you have to. You have to understand your circumstances but most importantly what is the mission of the Church and of course it is defined as many people as we possibly can to care for them and bring them into rest but ultimately that's in God's court that's up to him running. He saved sovereign so right. Exactly in God gives the growth and we all believe that. Yeah and and to to Jonathan again I trust I mean I just read this before we got on in I timothy one that in Verse Fifteen when Paul Tells Timothy Timothy. This is a saying that you should know it's trustworthy that Christ. Jesus came into the World. Safe centers of whom? I'm the foremost and so I mean I don't think Paul was just kind of giving false humility like he was so intimately aware of his own son his own failures his own. Broken this and so like as you wake up every morning and you feel that men distrust that Christ who you preaches enough for your people as also enough for you man And so we all need that in that First Timothy. One fifteen and sixteen. Paul says I am the foremost of centers. Not I was and I like you I trust. He's not blowing smoke or just trying to make a point and then in verse sixteen. He says that Christ has been so patient with me. You know he has dealt with me this way. So that he might display his patience and grace to all the saints to all who believe and so even if if we're models of something as pastors it should always start. There were modeling. The fact that we are wretches who have been dealt with mercifully and patiently by you know by Christ and we are now displaying that to all the saints who are looking on. It's like hey come partake of this because Christ is merciful and patient and gracious is centered even like me and he will be with you. You Know Jonathan if I could give you a resource There's a fantastic little book. You can buy it on kindle. I think there's paper to paper copies as well. It's called one point preaching a law and Gospel perspective. It's Shawn Lazar. I think I'm saying his last name. Correct excellent. On how you as a pastor can communicate your own sin in a way that's helpful and pointing others to cry so one point preaching you can find on Amazon great little resource check it out. All right We ready for another one. Just in the Javelin. I'll absolutely do it. Yeah I can do it and just I see a comment from from Kern or man. Current asked if we would do a podcast on church planning or a podcast pastors who have started churches. And that is something we've talked about doing and we're We are saving our AMMO for that one because we we we do instead. We may even do a series of podcasts on church. Planning we'll see so that that is I actually I got to meet Kern. Couple months ago he and his wife I know there was. It was great to meet them so anyways. So I'm GonNa tell you a question from from Edward in this is it's a long question but it's all in justification and sanctification but I think we can answer this pointedly in a and I think relatively briefly in a way that I hope it's helpful. So he's he's acknowledging you know the the differences like there is a distinction between justification and sanctification. And we're looking you outside of ourselves for Christ's to cry for righteousness and all those things in he asks this. I'm kind of summarizing and getting to the bottom part of the question. He says but while we are justified and thereby save we are still centers right similar to set Pekka tour. We all agree if so then is it. Correct to suggest in the course of the justification event we are also infused with just a bit of righteousness. That wasn't there before that is an inherit. Righteousness my pastor was adamant that this is so but I thought that are inherent goodness only comes by grace post justification during sanctification and he says this really is a question. I so I'M GONNA START. Answering that question by going to the sixteen thousand nine London Baptist. Confession the Westminster would have the same language. This chapter eleven paragraph one on justification. So the answer to that question is is there any righteousness infused into us in the event of justification? The answer is no and here. We go those God affectionately calls. He also freely justifies. He does this not by infusing. Righteousness into them but by pardoning their sins and accounting accepting them as righteous. He does this for Christ's sake alone and not for anything for -duced in them or done by them. He does not impute faith itself the act of believing or any other gospel obedience to them as their righteousness. Instead he imputes Christ's active obedience to the whole law and passive obedience in his death as their whole an only righteousness by faith. This faith is not self generated. It is the gift of God. One of my favorite paragraphs in the entire confession. And it's it's wonderful. It's very clear it's very biblical that no no no righteousness is infused into us in the justification piece it is completely the righteousness of Christ that is counted to us by faith and I love the language that the righteousness of Christ is our whole and only righteousness and it is by faith and so of course upon conversion we are in dwelt by God's spirit and the sanctification process begins. Where God is we very clear. God sanctifies us so if we were going to have that conversation about monarchism one worker or synergism to workers and sanctification. The three guys behind. These microphones are all monitored justic in our understanding of sanctification. That God does that work. We participate in our sanctification. Just like we participate in life by being alive but God does it. So we are being transformed and conformed in the image of Christ as we are sanctified but in terms of our our righteousness that would that would get us heaven it is only the righteousness of Christ always and it's not. We are not justified by having righteousness like infused into us in any way by God it's the righteousness of Jesus. And that's it. He addressed in his righteousness alone. Faultless stand before the thread. That's that's our song and that's our confession it's right. I hope that's helpful. Rails Rally sys given invitation right now. Yeah that's right. Now that's super helpful. let's go and grab another one. I know we're running out of time here. There was one here by Maranda in she asks on facebook. I kings eight. Thirty seven through forty keeps going around with fires. Earthquakes and Corona virus. Going around is our punishment for being sinful. And that if we turn to God and pray these punishments will end do you. How do you respond these people to say this is true and I believe we got another one that was similar to that from John? Yes John Richards also asked this Which is the if my people which are called by my name will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways. I will heal their land Well I can tell you two things. First of all we will give a for her. Answer this again next week in the PODCAST. But yes this this Everything that happens is according to God's plan and so there's nothing that happens outside the will the plan of God. God is not a reactionary God but God is a sovereign God that being said no those specific verses are written to a people that were in covenant with God and God was trying to warn them that they are going outside covenant outside of the promises that they have made between him and Israel and so those do not apply and I don't even think on a secondary or tertiary issue the the apply those at all to the United States or any country in general because those promises were made to a specific people for specific purpose. So if someone's using that saying that you know whatever is it they think is morality or if more people go to church or if they stopped doing some kind of sexual censor who whatever it is that they think America needs to do. I don't believe that's what's going to remove the corona virus earthquakes or anything else but that would be my initial answer mostly because you have to understand context redemptive historic understanding scripture. The and we even mentioned this in our podcast that came out but is today Thursday yesterday. That in proverbs understanding who context isn't who is applied to so I don't know if you guys have anything that you WANNA add or we want to grab him. He go ahead. Yeah I mean I think what I was what I was GONNA say is. There's all sorts of nonsense just being flying out right now from Christian social media and I mean I can't. I can't even bring myself to listen to Christian radio anymore But that's neither here nor there but I I mean honestly I I as we think about. I mean just different pandemics. It's interesting that people would take that view of my people would pray and they you know when they wanna throw these versus out. When it's like well I mean if if you WanNa do that reality I mean why are. Why are we not posting that sort of thing each and every day of each and every month of each every year because if it's not corona virus it's going to be an earthquake and if it's not an earthquake it's going to be a hurricane and if it's not a hurricane it's going to be this or that or whatever other thing and and certainly you know on a on a top level on an objective level? I mean we want to be as a Church of people of prayer that we want to pray and we want to ask. I know I have. I know I have prayed Daily that God would would heal this globe that he would show us his common Grayson and giving doctors and people who developed vaccines and people who developed treatments wisdom as the as we try to globally. Fight this pandemic. I mean. Nobody should be rejoicing in this pandemic. I mean nobody should be taking advantage of this pandemic and saying we'll see you know it's because we have this kind of people in our nation and this kind of people in our nation it's like meant get that nonsense of here like I can't even hear you right now. Can't even listen to that stuff because I mean here's here's the thing it's like. This is what I shared with my high school students a devotional. I said your greatest problem is not a pandemic. Your greatest issue is not getting the flu or getting corona virus. Your greatest issue is waking up and looking at yourself in the mirror and realizing that you're a sick red and you're in need of Christ and so if Corona viruses the thing that helps you realize that will then praise the Lord but at the same time it could be anything and if it's not corona virus it's going to be something else and so yes. We want to pray for our nation. We want to pray for all of the nation's WanNa pray for the world but at the same time like let's not go out banging our bibles on our chest and telling people to repent as they're trying to buy toilet paper at Wal Mart. I mean that's just not GonNa do any good Rather like we should be the constant voice of hope in Christ throughout all pandemics and all peace time. It doesn't really matter but jp you go ahead. Sure may only touch his phone right now and you might get burned. The we need the fire Emoji. So I've gotten this question from people in in my own church in the last week or two and and from other people that I've liked that I've run into even like the cross box before it got shut down and like people are like is this the judgment of God you know the this cove nineteen pandemic and in my answer in short is well. No not directly. We can't make that statement so this this is where I would go. I mean we can say that any kind of sickness death suffering horror is all the result of sin and by that I mean sin is a condition in the curse genesis. Three the fault now correct. We have to be very careful to draw straight lines from particular sins to particular judgment. Your we are told when we read scripture. The only time we can do that in my opinion in stand on solid footing is when God has revealed it to us in the Bible so God did give us a commentary on redemptive history. In how you deal with Israel it's called the prophets and so he did tell us specifically at points. I am acting this way. Because of this transgression so we can state that but then we need to be really careful to not extrapolate that that was uniquely situated with God's Covenant People in Israel extrapolate that now to America in the year. Twenty twenty. The other thing I'll say is briefly John. We've got this part down to move members. Podcast I take my cue from Jesus on this on a mindful of Christ's words in Luke. Thirteen the first verses of that chapter where he is talking to Jewish audience. And he says do you know about you've heard about the galleons who've pilots slaughtered right mixed blood with the sacrifices. Do you think that they were any worse than you? He Says No. If you don't repent you'll likewise parish he goes on to say or what about those eighteen people that the tower and Salaam fell on and killed them? Do you think that they were worse than you know they weren't true? I tell you know if you don't repent you'll likewise parish or there's John Chapter nine the first three verses where Jesus disciples come up on a blind man and the disciples asked the question. Jesus who sent this man or his parents that he was born blind in Christ says well. It's actually the answer is c none of the above neither of them send it so the works of God might be displayed. The point is we need to be very careful to draw those kinds of straight lines in terms of cause and effect. And what it should do for all this to Jimmy's point is it demonstrates to all of us the frailty of life the reality of suffering and points us to our need for Christ and it should cause us too long for the new heaven and the new Earth in that regard last word very quickly Hebrews Eleven Hebrews. Eleven is filled with people who are commended. For faith we are told in the latter part of that chapter that some of them were conquerors by through faith they conquered and were delivered and all these things but they were also told that some of them through faith were were killed. And they were Sean into. And it was clear that God had purposes in both the conquering and in the death and the suffering. And so that we can take confidence in that. God will always do what he means to do in and we are called to trust him and so we just need to be very careful about about overstepping and and really just kind of speculating. But doing that. With the kind of thus saith the Lord stamp on it we do all kinds of bad when we start to go. Those directions are stopping John. Yeah thank you for letting me talk. He got it well. Fifty I think is good so if you WANNA take us our door numbers. Podcast will keep answering questions. There's no way we're GONNA get them all but we're GONNA try. Yeah I mean I I guess we need to do a an actual shutdown of this first podcast. So we're going to do that now. This is a little bit behind the curtain. Thank you for listening to Theo. Cast we appreciate especially all the great questions that we receive. Were sorry that we have not been able to get to but just a few of them. We can talk about this stuff for hours. We are now the three of us over to our members podcasts. And if you don't even know what that is you can go to our website. Theo cast dot org and learn more information about our total access membership. We still offer a fourteen day. Free trial on that memberships. You can kick the tires and get used to what all that contains. It doesn't include amongst other content. This additional podcast. We released weekly for membership. So we hope to see you over there. We're headed there momentarily. We will talk with you again next week.

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