35 Burst results for "Spies"

Cyber conflict between Ukraine and Russia

The CyberWire

05:46 min | 11 hrs ago

Cyber conflict between Ukraine and Russia

"Security firm proof point this morning released a study of chinese people's liberation army threat actor ta four thirteen. That's deployed a militias fire. Fox browser extension fryer fox in a surveillance campaign directed against tibetans. Ta four thirteen has also used scan box and support your malware in its operation so far this year the units targets include tibetan groups both domestic and in tibetan diaspora proof point assesses ta four thirteen tool said as limited but quite effective against dissident communities. Which after all have what proof point aptly calls a low barrier to compromise the campaign also suggests a shift to more open source tools on the part of the p. l. a. ukraine's national security and defense counsel has accused moscow of compromising a ukrainian government file sharing system the system of electronic interaction of executive bodies zd net thinks. The group responsible is gamero. Don a group widely regarded as a proxy for russian intelligence services. Kamera don has certainly been active against ukrainian targets in the past. But it's an odd duck while often thought of as an advanced persistent threat that is a government. Run operation in some respects. It doesn't really act like a government agency or even a straight up contractor like iran's mob group for one thing gamero don doesn't restrict it's targeting the way government operation normally would nor is it entirely indiscriminate in the way the lower end criminal gangs tend to be for all that gamero. Don is both noisy and aggressive. Research by cisco's talos group suggests that gamero don is also a mercenary player in the criminal. Criminal market talos wrote in. Its recent report on maradonna quote. We should consider the possibility of this. Not being an ap t at all rather being a group that provides services for other ap teas while doing its own attacks on other regions and quote so Kind of contractor perhaps a criminal organization that hires its services out to intelligence services but that also does business with other criminals while its principal state sponsor by general agreement russia turns a blind eye so gamero don is one of the most active and undeterred actors in the threat landscape it does the work of an ap t but it uses a cybercriminals style. It's worth noting that the operation the ns dc describes seems to be a software supply chain compromise as an s. d. c. tweeted. The attack belongs to the so-called supply chain attacks methods in means of carrying out this cyberattack allow to connect it with one of russia's hackers spy groups this is therefore a different matter entirely from the distributed denial of service attacks ukraine complained of at the beginning of the week the de dos attack targeted. Both the national security and council and the sba you security service bleeping. Computer reports and ukrainian authorities did claim that the attack had its origins in russia in as they put it russian traffic networks. The ns dc describes the diaz thusly vulnerable government web servers are infected with virus that covertly makes them part of a button. It used for de dos attacks on other resources at the same time. Security systems of internet providers identify compromised web servers as a source of attacks and begin to block their work by automatically blacklisting them. Thus even after the end of the de dos fix the attacked websites remain inaccessible to users and quote. But it seems that this denial of service harassment was probably the work of the criminal. Gang thought to be retaliating for the arrest of three of its members by the cranium. Participants in a big bilateral franco ukrainian law enforcement sweep alleged members of gregor. We should of course say allegedly engaged in criminal activity. These particular alleged. Hoods seem to have belonged to a gregor's ransomware sub gang french authorities in particular had blood in there is because as france entire reports. A gregor was allegedly implicated in ransomware attacks against hospitals. So paris in kiev. Good hunting. go get him. There allegedly bad guys researchers at mcafee this morning released their study of uc ransomware. A new strain detected earlier this year. It's another entry into the ransomware as a service market whose operators hawkins in both russophone an anglophone criminal the criminal markets. It uses the familiar attack. Vectors common in the ransomware space phishing emails of course but also exploitation of compromised accounts index has gained through unpacked. Systems with known vulnerabilities. Babba criminal customers seem so far to be most interested in hitting victims in the transportation healthcare plastics electronics and agriculture sectors. Their activity has extended to a number of geographical regions and the malware doesn't use the sorts of local language checks often employed to keep the operators out of water in countries whose legal systems tend to be vigilant and unforgiving mcafee's notes on abbott. See an interesting division of labor across its two principal linguistic communities. The operators will use an english language for them for announcements but a russian language forum for affiliate recruitment ransomware updates

Gamero Don Gamero National Security And Defense Kamera Don Talos Group Talos Liberation Army DON Russia National Security And Council Gregor Moscow FOX Cisco Iran AP SBA Babba Kiev
Amnesty strips Alexei Navalny of 'prisoner of conscience' status

Monocle 24: The Briefing

06:55 min | 19 hrs ago

Amnesty strips Alexei Navalny of 'prisoner of conscience' status

"There was a time when a figure like alexei navalny might have been able to count on if little else the full-throated support of amnesty international. The russian opposition figurehead would appear to meet. Every definition of a prisoner of conscience imprisoned on exceedingly dubious pretext spy unpleasant authoritarians and slash. With no record of ever having furthered he's caused through perpetrating inciting or suggesting violence however amnesty appear to differ on the basis of remarks made by navalny about immigrants a few years back. Amnesty has announced that whatever they will classify navalny as prisoner of conscience is not one. Join with more on this by mark kelly. Russia analyst and author of several books most recently a short history of russia. Mark festival to this maneuver by amnesty. Aren't they missing the point of prisoner of conscience a little bit that it's not necessary that you actually agree with them. Yeah absolutely and this is definitely something of an own-goal for amnesty. And especially so because it seems to bury much be have been triggered by a campaign or if not orchestrated by the kremlin but certainly sort of very much augmented by kremlin friendly. Voices in on social media does hurt navarre only at all it. Does i mean we go. To realize that the kremlin the moment is trying to portray him as anything but a immoral icon. I mean this wine set of charging him with treason or anything like that. They've gone for embezzlement. And basically he's dismissing a great patriotic war veteran and this is going to be an ready. It is being magnified by the russian state media as if it somehow amnesty deciding that novell abadan of course amnesty saying they still think that he should not be imprisoned so forth but that kind of nuance doesn't matter. So the kremlin is definitely gonna use this for it's worth which part of the russian electorate public does this stuff play with though i mean the charges against navalny especially that one. You alluded to of having insulted a veteran of the great patriotic. I mean that's absurd even if true that you would put somebody in the dark for that. The point is this is a long game. Let's be honest. Nevada is going to be in prison for at least two and a years. and what. the substandard kremlin tactic. They basically throw so much mud that even if each individual charge is when you look at it pretty ridiculous at some point just begins to sift into the subconscious of of many of the potential electric. Who aren't really people following the news in detail. They not committed inobound nights. They just went on the they. Just get unsensitive. Oh yeah you know what there will lose court. Cases wasn't their rulers allegations. The hope is that it'll stick again. It's not a sophisticated tactic but they hope is that skin. They have so much control over the media and probably a couple of years to do it. They can black and his reputation before he ever sees the light of day. We have talked before about the strategic sense of this from your vladimir putin on the russian regimes point of view as like why you would turn valley into the center of a circus rather than just ignore him. They hoping though that if he is sent to the salt pile fluently for at least two and a half years that he will just be forgotten about. Definitely the idea. I mean again. They hope is that this way he just simply becomes someone who again used to be someone now. Of course. The difficulty is the moment they have him in a top security prison within a prison. In due course he's going to have to go out and presumed me to just an ordinary prison or in this case a penal colony which is how the russians classify that their prisons and at that point. You know there is the chance that he will have access to whether it's sort of illegal cell phones that he can send out the message and so forth so the there is going to be this constant narrative struggle navanly's people want to keep his memory alive. They want to make into a current thing. The kremlin indu course will want to make him into just some past figure who gets forgotten the you. You have responded to the persecution of nevada by imposing some sanctions which do more symbolic than anything else navalny's supporters unsurprisingly asking the eu to expand those sanctions but is there anything the eu can realistically do in the sanctions department which is going to Compel russia to adjust their behavior. Navales concern because russia can't back down now right valley's going to the penal colony for at least two and a half years yes. There's no real question about that but look sanctions are more than anything else about political symbolism and when you just assigned to go for four fairly obvious candidates who basically have no property in the eu. And unlike we're unlikely to becoming to holiday in the south of france the symbolism the message you're giving is basically we have done the least possible we really don't want to get involved in this if the e you had come up with with a much more robust package of measures. Of course it wouldn't have meant. The putin would suddenly have quake in his boots. Before ios it burrell and reversed his policy but it would have said look. We do take this seriously. We will consist on adding costs to your actions. The trouble is at the moment that actually what they basically said is quite the opposite. The russia obviously does hope that we've out navan the as its figurehead than the protest movement that he leads will just sort of dwindle. Evaporate and disappear. Is that light clear. The discussions about how the rage could be maintained. I mean i'm thinking back to those color revolutions in eastern europe in the early part of this century in one of the reasons or one of the ways they succeeded as that they were substantially lead a loose so the authorities seeking to suppress the movements. Didn't really know who they should cart off. Yeah absolutely and this is one of the problems. I mean they pass. The opposition has had the great virtue of his finger navalny as figurehead because he's very charismatic and effective but now they novelli shaped hole and really echo three ways. They could indeed dwindle all it could. Well be that we will find new leaders. Arising i mean it might be as in belarus that actually you'll find for example navales wife emerging as a new figure all others who can basically fill that role. The third possibility is though if this movement which is essentially very much it's nonviolent. It's political if this fails then there is also the risk that actually people become more radicalized. They feel that we. We tried everything we could within the system. We're going to have to try and go without the system. And i think this is the moment we actually have. No idea. notice the kremlin which way it'll go

Navalny Alexei Navalny Russia Mark Kelly Putin EU Novell Nevada Burrell Navan France Novelli Europe Belarus
Lawmakers vote to abolish death penalty in Virginia

The Daily Beans

01:38 min | 2 d ago

Lawmakers vote to abolish death penalty in Virginia

"Two bills to abolish the death penalty in virginia one final approval in the state. General assembly on monday. Yip and we're headed to governor ralph northern. Who as we know is a democrat. Who's expected to sign them. Virginia historically one of the nation's most prolific death penalty states with then become the first in the south to abandon the ultimate punishment. The state senate approved by vote of twenty two sixteen a house. Bill that bans executions and establishes a maximum punishment of life in prison. Without the possibility of parole a judge would have discretion to spend part of that sentence a sticking point for some republicans who pushed unsuccessfully to make life without parole a mandatory minimum a minimum yes and identical senate bill sponsored by senator. Scott a cheryl bell is my saying serve as late last name right. Demo democrat passed the house by fifty seven to forty three vote with two republicans joining all the democrats. Which is a wonderful sign. Virginia has imposed capital punishment since the colonial times head of the rest of the nation. Get this a spy for spain was in town colony in sixteen eight one thousand. Three hundred ninety people have been put to death in that state since that first one. This is according to the death penalty information center now since the us supreme court reinstated the death penalty in one. Thousand nine hundred. Seventy six virginia has executed hundred and thirteen people more than any state other than texas oklahoma. Very close third to those two now. The death penalty is outlawed in neighbouring dc and maryland which abolished it in. Two thousand. Thirteen virginia would become the twenty third state to ban the punishment following colorado's abolition last year.

Ralph Northern Cheryl Bell YIP Senate Virginia General Assembly Bill Scott Us Supreme Court Spain Oklahoma Texas DC Maryland Colorado
Clubhouse Chats Are Breached, Raising Concerns Over Security

The KDKA Radio Morning News

00:32 sec | 3 d ago

Clubhouse Chats Are Breached, Raising Concerns Over Security

"Was taking steps to make sure user data could not be stolen by malicious hackers or spies. Now at least one hacker has proven that the popular audio chat rooms live streams can be breached. A clubhouse spokeswoman said An unidentified user was able to stream audio feeds from the AP. Into their own third party website. The Stanford Internet Observatory first raise security concerns about clubhouse just over a week ago, saying users that should assume all conversations are being recorded. Gina serve Eddie Bloomberg radio.

Stanford Internet Observatory AP Gina Serve Eddie Bloomberg
Jeremiah Owyang - Social Audio Analytics and Constituent Groups - Voicebot Podcast 195 - burst 07

The Voicebot Podcast

03:36 min | 4 d ago

Jeremiah Owyang - Social Audio Analytics and Constituent Groups - Voicebot Podcast 195 - burst 07

"I want to come back to this idea social audio analytics and maybe the social audio management system this is going to be near and dear to the heart to a lot of the people who listen to this podcast because their space is accustomed to taking raw audio content transforming taxed analyzing it Actually putting it against other services and potentially returning information. So i wanted to explore that with you. A little bit we. We haven't seen that publicly yet and any of these social audio spaces you expect. People are actually doing it today. How do you think that that's going to play out. Do you expect this to be predominantly the platforms are going to try to control it and use this as a feature and trying to block other people or do you think it's mostly going to be third parties coming in and somehow getting the feed whether through direct. Api or from a rogue angle and then being able to provide that data to people who are interested in it. Yes so. I think there's maybe four constituent groups to think about here. Let's try to break this down. And i don't have all the answers here. I'm speculating so there are the platforms themselves twitter spaces and clubhouse and facebook. I think they are so twitter. Spaces already has real time voice to text translation into english which is on the lower third for some speakers. It's a three second delay about ninety percent accuracy. Ucla right yes okay. The second group would be the Government agencies and spies They're probably already doing it. But we'll never know. Group will be the traditional social media Analytics companies like salesforce and adobe salesforce acquired radian six In two thousand eleven ten years ago For three hundred million and their job was to grab all of the text based social media content. That was being produced at a rapid pace and make insights out of it and sell to brands for seven. Figure deals annually on what is being set in their market and give them analysis on share voice sentiment byproduct by region by country by network by individual by they produce. I was involved heavily with that industry now. The fourth group the fourth group i think is the one that will deploy so i. I don't think salesforce. And adobe wanna risk breaking the terms of service against twitter and risk that access that they already have in their. Api I don't think they wanna be scraping that content and also risk privacy concerns especially when a democratic administration is very concerned about privacy when it comes to social media as well as on the right hand side of the government as well they're even more concerned about suppression of so i don't think those big giant tech companies Adobe salesforce and oracle to do an ibm want to do that. So i think it's gonna be the fourth category which will be roguish punkish startups that are going to rip the content off with botts at a recording. The information then conduct voice to text analysis. And then do the other things that i already mentioned with sentiment in mining and influence analysis network. So i think it's going to be done under the covers of darkness fair enough and do you believe that the botts will be listed as users and basically some sort of fake user or are they going to be attached to a real users use. The system could be both. I mean there are. People are reporting data out of social audio by using. You know i rig systems and connecting to their ipod to other systems as well and just you know exporting that data. That's already happening.

Salesforce Twitter Adobe Radian Ucla Facebook Government Botts Oracle IBM
UK's MI6 apologizes for past treatment of LGBT spies

AP News Radio

00:44 sec | 5 d ago

UK's MI6 apologizes for past treatment of LGBT spies

"The head of Britain's MI six intelligence service has apologised to gays bi's inspiring agents who will fight denied jobs because of their sexuality Richard Moore said in a video statement on Twitter that a ban on LGBT spies that lasted until nineteen ninety one was wrong unjust and discriminatory Moore was appointed last year as C. the card name given to the director of Britain's overseas intelligence agency although same sex relationships were decriminalized in England in nineteen sixty seven gay people continue to be barred from working in Britain's intelligence services because of MI six secrecy it is not known how many people were affected by the discriminatory policy services London

Britain Richard Moore BI Twitter Moore England London
Finding Your Tribe In The Clubhouse App Where Your Voice And Your Presence Matters

Yeah, She's Driven

05:10 min | Last week

Finding Your Tribe In The Clubhouse App Where Your Voice And Your Presence Matters

"Hey you guys welcome to. Yes she's driven podcast. I m here with jiffy accardi and we have been wrapping before. We actually turned on this video. And this is this is this is like one of the bad things that happens when you have really great synergy was someone who provide so much great content before you turn on the podcast and we're gonna see if we can replicate some of that for you so tense. I want to share what it is that you do who you are. I also want to let the listeners know that we are really doing a clubhouse series right now and we're interviewing people who are all over clubhouse freaking out on clubhouse seeing what you like about clubhouse how it might be destroying livens hell how you can actually really use this app away. That's healthy effective and not sure any of us are doing it healthy ineffective yet. But you know we're working on it exactly so Tiffany just share a little bit about your background. And then i'll start asking you some questions about hired how you working on clubhouse absolutely so my name's tiffany elissa cardi and i am in the community building space. So i feel like. I've really found my home on clubhouse as a social media application i run a global movement called gals that brench that brings together women through monthly curious events over happy hour and brunches and We come together to empower each other network. Get to know each other in help. Women find friends in all the transitions of life between having kids and getting married professional working life in all those pieces. You never realize how much you really need your your women around you and whatnot so we have one hundred twenty chapters around the world throughout the us the uk. Australia and canada. And so i spend my time creating all this events in also through this year we've been impacted by covid in doing in person events so been doing a lot of virtual events virtual but clubs in virtual brunches in all the things bringing spy guide. You just sound like us sound like like piece to a woman's heart because they think that all women we need each other and we just don't operate as well without each other. And i think especially a lot of entrepreneurial women which the she's driven podcast is entrepreneurial and men to But the point is is that like. I think it's one of the things that some of us are not even so good about making it a priority and then we wonder why we're resentful or frustrated when it's like we're not making us in our friendships a priority. So i love this chapter. This is amazing. Now talk this yeah. I was moving across the country doing consulting for higher education institutions in. So i would move every couple of years and i find myself in this boat like how do you connect with people and for me as a single young professional. You know i'd get involved in church Unprofessional joined softball teams. And things like that but at the end of the day just found myself kind of in this boat. Where i was like. I need to find my tribe of people in. Why isn't this happening for me. Because i've never had a problem doing it. And i feel like i was actually like a strategy like given to me by god's fires like that i was meant to create this aces and create the table and so it literally started out with like one invitation of like. Okay who do. I know i know five people in all you guys bring one person. Let's go to brunch. Like we'll meet all the incredible women that we known each others lives and then the concept was always invite someone so i was living in virginia beach at the time. Had just moved there a week before we did. This whole brunch concept Because i was consulting back and forth. I was starting to get to know some of the people in the area. We had over forty women that came together just by like everyone invite one person and then that chapter ended up growing to over two thousand women. I ended up moving back to san diego. Later that year someone else moved away. They started chaptered kind of like a joke and then went on to social media and start sharing like. Hey we have We have a chapter in virginia and then within a week we had five different people reach out being like. Oh my gosh. How can i started gals at brunch chapter. And then it's like over the last four years it just kind of like accidental entrepreneurship journey of like figuring out. Okay how do we scale. How do we make this happened in a healthy and sustainable way in also realizing oh my gosh like our generation is truly crying out for more connection in. So it's funny that we're looking back around with clubhouse because i think that's the phenomenon that's happening because we've gotten so driven into the social media world where like a one hundred twenty character status updates. Life is great. You know here's my life whereas like around the table people being and like they're like oh my gosh. Why is the so healing in what's happening. It's because there's a synergy in energy that's happening in just simple connection of coming together and so it's been a wild ride. I might hit. You know like just continuing to grow in figuring out okay

Jiffy Accardi Tiffany Elissa Cardi Tiffany Australia Softball Canada UK Virginia Beach United States San Diego Virginia
The first interplanetary helicopter is on its way to Mars

Innovation Now

01:01 min | Last week

The first interplanetary helicopter is on its way to Mars

"When perseverance lands on mars. It will have a very special hitchhiker on board. Here's susan gordon from nasa's langley research center to tell us about the first rotorcraft to fly on another planet. That helicopter has to be self sufficient. It's independent other. Rovers mission rides up with the rover and then it will separate from the rover and once separated. It never goes back to the rover. This is a very small helicopter. It had to fit on the mars. Two thousand twenty rover it carries on board. Its own solar panels that can charge its batteries and it can keep it warm overnight. 'cause marcia nights get down to minus ninety degrees celsius nasa will send instructions from earth about what mission to fly to perseverance on mars. The rover will then communicate those instructions to the helicopter so on board at has enough computing power to understand the instructions and then to execute its mission named ingenuity. The helicopter is a technology demonstration. That could soon have a spying high at least thirty feet high overmars

Susan Gordon Langley Research Center Nasa Marcia
Why the U.S. still has a shortage of N95 masks

John Landecker

00:26 sec | Last week

Why the U.S. still has a shortage of N95 masks

"Associated Press Investigation has shown some U. S hospital still have supply issues within 95 masks, but they're still rationing them. In some places. Some frontline workers spoke with investigators and report they're still being issued one per shift instead of one per patient. AP says the logistical breakdowns rooted in federal failures over the past year to coordinate spy chains and provide hospitals with clear rules about how to manage their medical equipment.

Associated Press AP
Historic Winter Storm Brings Heavy Snow, Dangerously Cold Temperatures To Dallas Area

Morning Edition

00:51 sec | Last week

Historic Winter Storm Brings Heavy Snow, Dangerously Cold Temperatures To Dallas Area

"President Biden has declared an emergency in Texas and ordered federal assistance the state among those in the grip of an unusual winter storm system. Texas Public Radio's Jerry Clayton reports. The storm is bringing snow ice and near record low temperatures. Forecasters say the entire state will be affected. Kurt van Spy Brooke is with the National Weather Service in Fort Worth. We have winter storm warnings out for the entire state of Texas from Amarillo and El Paso, all the way East to the Sabine and even down in the deep South Texas and the real Grande Valley. Vance by Brooke says dangerously cold temperatures will rival weather records as far back his 1986 with lows in the single digits. The state Department of Transportation is discouraging travel statewide. Texas is also dealing with higher than normal power generation outages due to frozen wind turbines and limited natural gas

President Biden Texas Public Radio Jerry Clayton Kurt Van Spy Brooke Texas Grande Valley National Weather Service Fort Worth Amarillo El Paso South Texas Vance Brooke Department Of Transportation
Supermicro Hack: How China Exploited a U.S. Tech Supplier Over Years

This Week in Tech

05:13 min | Last week

Supermicro Hack: How China Exploited a U.S. Tech Supplier Over Years

"When the original story from Bloomberg came out and was then immediately denied by many of the companies mentioned. This is the super micro hack including apple super micro amazon which uses the elemental hardware that uses super micro. A lot of people thought bloomberg. You got it. Rob bloomberg never retracted. they said we have very good sources They just on friday. Put out another story. The long hack. How china exploited a us tech supplier for years us. Investigators found tampering and products made by super micro. The company says it was never told they weren't doing it. Neither was the public when that first came out i said to or not. It is a very important warning about the dangers of the supply chain. You've gotta protect your supply chain bloomberg. Now has a lot more details. I think you cannot. I think we. Now i don't care what denials you hear. You cannot deny this story. Twenty ten. The us department of defense found thousands of servers sending military network data that china the result of code hidden in chips that handled the machines startup process in two thousand fourteen intel discovered an elite chinese hacking group had breached its network through a single server. The downloaded malware from a suppliers update site in two thousand fifteen. The fbi warned multiple companies. That chinese operatives had concealed an extra chip loaded with back door code in one manufacturers servers in each of these distinct attacks two things in common china and super micro which is a motherboard manufacturer in san jose. They shared one other trait. Us spymasters discovered the manipulations but kept them largely secret as they tried to counter each one and learn more about china's capabilities. I know father. You cover hacking And i'm sure you know you had did you. With the initials super micro report did you. What were your thoughts at the time we did it. So a on both twice and know how we actually took a look at some of the supposedly affected motherboards from super micro and we did our own set of tests on them. I really basic stopped. Is we let them run. And we watched all the network traffic every single packet. That was leaving the server for the course of a month. We saw nothing right so absolutely nothing. We actually went back to the traces to look for traces of chips. That were added absolutely nothing now. The the answer. The response was well defined everything. And like you said. It wasn't super micro. I want to make that very clear. It was in the supply chain the motherboards would be shipped and then at some point between arrive shipment arriving at the end user. They were modified in fact bloomberg says that neither super micro nor any of its employees has been accused of wrongdoing former. Us officials who provided information with the story emphasize. The company itself has not been the target of any counterintelligence investigation right. It's a supply chain attack exactly and and as you mentioned. We know that that's a vulnerability everything that we use from. Our networking equipment to our phones are manufactured in china. So unless you've got someone there watching every step of the process. There is no way to guarantee that there's nothing added to a motherboard that could be sending data back now. There are a few weird things in the story that the way that bloomberg reported. They were reporting that laptops and motherboards were being They had malware in the bios. And i'm thinking wait a minute all these all all of these machines you you. Efi which do check sums now. You shouldn't technically be able to do that. You can drop an extra chip but if you're trying to tell me that china has developed a way to hack you. Efi that is undetectable. I'm going to need more proof than you just bringing on a so-called experts saying oh yeah they've totally done that you covered the story. I'm i'm sure bryan Both in october two thousand eighteen when the original strike came out. I was really surprised on fridays c. Bloomberg double down on this. What's your thought. Yeah i actually. I actually hadn't seen that. that happened. Probably posted after a post with my show I mean it. I always come back to these when these things come up. Where even with the solar winds thing. Don't we just always have to assume that every that apple facebook there's there's spies from multiple countries working. They're actively at every factory point for software for hardware forever there are spies working in these factories to inject things like we just have to assume that that's been the case for years now. Right am i wrong. Yeah that was. My point is whether you believe or don't believe the soup original story from october of two thousand eighteen. It's clear this is a potential problem. The supply chain attacks are happening. They've happened over and over again and and We may you know there's a real message you've got to pay close attention to this stuff and you can't assume that it because it's arriving box it hasn't been tampered with

Bloomberg China Rob Bloomberg Us Department Of Defense United States Apple Amazon Intel FBI San Jose Bryan Facebook
Canaan Unconquered - Rachel Havrelock

Judaism Unbound

09:22 min | 2 weeks ago

Canaan Unconquered - Rachel Havrelock

"And kinda interested in talking about the person joshua. He's the title character of this book and he himself from my understanding of scholarly work on biblical criticism or otherwise. He himself has a story like an origin story. That some people think is kind of a retrospection where like after the fact. He's put into the torah in a way that he may not have always been there. And what i'm referring to is specifically. His glory story is that he's one of the two folks in the twelve spies story that goes into the promised land and says This is great all the other ten folks. All land is terrible. Joshua caleb are on the good side that god likes and because it's the land that they're supposed to go to am. I right in my understanding of that. How scholars look at that person joshua and to what extent to we learn more about him in talking about the book that's named after him. Joshua indeed has a book named after him but is one of the flatter hand more hollow biblical characters. I mean for readers. Go in sequence so you know redo romney in which moses in vary tragic psychological terms wrestles with his impending death. And you know even with the existential reality of death itself. so we're going through it moses psyche and when we can turn out of the penza out of the five books of moses when we opened the book of joshua we have an entirely flat character. You know joshua is really characterized by his obedience and interestingly enough has no title right once called the servant of god is not labeled a profit is not labeled a judge is not labeled a king. I mean we get the news of general because he leads these battles but he doesn't even have a title biblical literature does have great literature and just have complex characters. Josh was not one of them. And you can't really do. A lot of psychological depth with an icon in joshua right becomes an icon of this army of this ancient near right to really kind of like a strobe of what i would call. Ancient national is now. I believe that the book of joshua is ultimately synthesized by a group of editors that we call the or novelists they are the ones that are also very smart editors so joshua ends up becoming a kind of a tool that the nommik editors really use to kinda. We've eras together and also to contain a kind of perfect model right. They wanna leader in their language. Who neither the left nor the right right who keeps torah. You know kind of the cuff at all times. And so they give joshua authority by putting him back the times of most read someone who experienced the whole exodus and even while being a member of this desert generation right the generation of the liberated slaves joshua and his spy buddy caleb right are portrayed is the only two who believe in going to war in this land. So i think that's right. I think the shooter anonymous create joshua to be an icon of the kind of unity to which they aspire and one more piece that all add to your question about joshua and caleb who again are depicted is these faithful spies who go against the will of their generation. I love it kinda that the liberated slaves don't want to go to war. I feel like we haven't done enough to really like reclaim that biblical antiwar position expressed by that generation. But you know. John lewis show like i said he's a. He's a tutoring nommik creation. But there's a lot of northern stuff going on with joshua and caleb is a southern figure just as these editors could really say we've always been at war with canaanites. Their system could also absorb later alliances. So kayla who. This southern figure is a canoe. He's a kennedy and the candidates are ultimately a group that gets absorbed under the tribe of judah the twelve tribes structure is very good at pointing to those people who are on the outside who jumped. Don't join the alliance and saying those e mites those canaanites those jebusites there are enemies. But it's also good at absorbing groups that might join the alliance at their own pace and saying. Oh well that's caleb. He's the head of the kennedy clan and that's a sub family of judah so so both things are possible for trying to account for political alliances. Can we situated some of what you're talking about in some sense of historical time to understand sort of when the actual events that are being responded to her happening versus the time where the story is set. What's going on geopolitically. And the time of the israelites when they are making all these alliances. And then if i understand the approximate timeframe here they're basically writing and rewriting these stories that are functionally taking place around five hundred years earlier. Right i mean the so. It almost becomes like their writing and rewriting and massaging this almost like mythic prehistory. It's not just like they're telling a story from fifty years ago differently. They're telling a story from five hundred years ago differently. I'm just curious if you could give us some sense of what was actually going on in in their world at that time that was motivating them to do all this so yes. Speaking about time wine this is the kind of thing. Bible scholars go to conferences to fight of out. So let me kind of breakdown this picture together with a time line let me start somewhere with is a very important piece of poetry and it's important because because of how it serves as a historical in and that's song of deborah and the song of jabra with we believe based on its grammar and syntax is one of the oldest texts in the bible and some people even speak about the year twelve hundred bc. Jabra sings about a war and she sings that some tribes came and fought in the war in some sat home so she disparages the tribes who sat home and she sings the praises of the tribes who k. That's very important to me because it shows that the success or failure of a given tribe in war depended upon their allies. Were so we see major major motivation for these processes of consolidation. Many scholars have shown how end the nine eight century. B c e you've got these policies of consolidating clans in schreiber's into something that looks like a pro donation. This is happening in the region. And it's about war you know. Because if you're national formation right if or if you're a bunch of tribes and you've got a consolidated federation of people's you're gonna lose but then we get you know eighth century b. c. e. the rise of empires in particular syria and the threat of assyria marching. You know or the egyptian empire has its second wind around this time. It's that process. That i think gets people thinking we've got come up. You know with a larger scale organization in army. And so josh. Shaw gives this army which is kind of being configured in real time it gives this army kind of heroic prehistory behind which people can march. And so it means you know that it works and doesn't work because the syrian army takes out the northern kingdom the kingdom of israel in seven twenty two but ends up sparing the kingdom of

Joshua Joshua Caleb Caleb Joshua Authority Romney Kennedy Josh John Lewis Kayla Jabra Deborah Schreiber Syria Army Shaw Syrian Army Israel
Finding the Judas in Judas and the Black Messiah

Morning Edition

07:02 min | 2 weeks ago

Finding the Judas in Judas and the Black Messiah

"The 19 sixties, Fred Hampton was chairman of the Illinois Black Panther Party. He was a rising leader, organizing disparate multi racial groups in Chicago. Until police shot and killed him and another Black Panther member in an early morning raid. There's a new movie about Fred Hampton out this week, it is called Judas and the Black Messiah. It's not a question of ball. It's a non violence is a question of resistance to fascism or non existence within fascism Film got rave reviews after its premiere at the Sundance Film Festival last week. It's the second feature from director Shaka King who, until this project came along, was on the verge of giving up making feature films altogether. MPR's Andrew Lyne bonked takes it from here. Yes, Judas and the Black Messiah is about Fred Hampton and how he led the Black Panthers in Chicago. But it's also about William O'Neill, the man who infiltrated the Black Panthers in spied on Hampton on behalf of the FBI. Shaka King told me that the Lucas Brothers who co wrote the story, sold the idea to him like this. Their pitch that they laid out was we want to make a movie about Fred Hampton and William O'Neal. That's kind of like the departed the 2006 Martin Scorsese movie Inside the World of Cointelpro, or Counterintelligence program, the 19 sixties project where the FBI infiltrated and disrupted groups like the Black Panthers, and I was like I see it. I'm done. I'm in Judas is a tight, intense movie. Yes, like the departed and other Scorsese type crime movies. It's a long way, though, from King's first feature film newly weeds from 2013. So what you got here? Newly weeds tells the story of a young couple in Brooklyn who smoke a lot of weed where Judas is loud and fast. Really? Weeds is quiet and tender. I'm done. I'm done online. Won't want Wanna hang out. We hang up. Yeah. How are we supposed to go to the Galapagos? If you mind the bag every two minutes. It hits similar beats as movies by other indie darling directors like Joe Swanberg or the Duplass Brothers. The film Independent Spirit Awards even gave King the Someone to watch award after it came out, which came with a $25,000 grant. Not bad for someone fresh out of N Y. U film school. But after that initial fanfare, I was so depressed after making newly weeds and my expectations for the release just not coming to fruition. The movie didn't get much attention outside the festival circuit from agents and distributors, largely because it was a movie with black actors who no one knew on at that time that was deemed worthless. The film's release in 2013 wasn't that long ago, but it was just before what a friend of Kings jokingly dubbed. The Black Excellence Industrial Complex. You're Selma's and Moon Lights and Black Panthers when movie studios realized they could make a lot of money by releasing films by and starring black people. Nearly weeds. Loss of momentum burnt king out on the idea of making another feature film, But he did have an idea for a short rolling around in his head. It was kind of silly kind of outrageous, sweetheart. Lips. Excuse me, miss. It's called Moon Yang's after the Italian slur for black people want heard on the streets of Brooklyn in it, King and two others play these three black guys who talk like they're in the mom movies. King has such a fondness for It was somewhat inspired by King's experience growing up in a mostly black part of Brooklyn, but going to high school in South Brooklyn, where everyone the Irish Americans, Greek Americans, Asian Americans, Jewish Americans, all talks like the Italian American kids, and those kids were Hilarious. They were profane. They were quick witted, and we were not friends put like I could appreciate their sense of humor. The movie is a concise examination of race, gender gentrification. As King's character gets into an argument with his sister over a MetroCard, you did not have a dime. Put 1000 until the white guy comes by and says hi to the sister. Hi. How you doing? How are you? You guys just don't know what both outta here. Oh, Polluted the movie is fun and poignant, and the process reminded King how much he loved making movies. That movie saved me. You saved me. I didn't see that or know that about Shaka. But I could understand, and I could see how that could happen. Charles de King, no relation to director Shocking is the CEO and founder of Macro which since its founding in 2015 has produced movies and TV shows featuring non white people, including Judas and the Black Messiah. It was before the oscarssowhite moment. Of 2015. There's a lot that's happened since then. There is much more of an openness and I think an understanding of the business opportunity there. Which brings us to King today, making a movie about an anti capitalist black radical at a very capitalist Hollywood studio without watering down the politics. The deal is to respect the authenticity. Fred Hampton Jr is the current chairman of the Black Panther Party, Cubs and son of Fred Hampton. He says he and the other Panthers had their guards up when they were approached about this film. The Panthers have long been subjected to propaganda campaigns and misrepresentations. But he says King and the rest of the cast and crew definitely navigated the crossroads between their creative goals and the Panthers. Political ones. Well enough, anyway. Revolutionaries never satisfied. You know, I wish there was more political cartoon. We could've pushed. In a certain point, However, I'll put the people's need before before my needs my wants and desires. For instance, the relationship between Fred Hampton and his partner, Deborah Johnson, was a tricky thing to get right. The poet.

Fred Hampton Shaka King Black Panthers Illinois Black Panther Party Andrew Lyne William O'neill Lucas Brothers King William O'neal FBI Joe Swanberg Duplass Brothers Film Independent Spirit Awards Brooklyn Chicago Black Excellence Industrial Co Sundance Film Festival Moon Yang Martin Scorsese
The Empowerment Of Using Social Media To Reinvent Yourself

Trent365

03:14 min | 2 weeks ago

The Empowerment Of Using Social Media To Reinvent Yourself

"Have heard. I finally got on clubhouse a few days ago. And i am loving the platform. And i generally believe that it is a platform that has the potential to do a lot of good for a lot of people but the same functionality that allows it to do a lot of good. He's also allowing the scanners and so there's a lot of talk now about the people on clubhouse who climbing to have the success. Sorry the secrets to everything. The secret to success the secret to life the secret to making a million dollars there are multiple successful startup. Exit founders are multiple successful business investors. All of these claims many of which could be verified if people took the time but a lot of people don't bother taking the time they just kind of accept them believe what they read and if the guy or girl speaking is particularly convincing well they must be talking the truth it must be true what they say but the thing about these platforms is that it gives you the chance to dabble at reinventing yourself without throwing away your current or your previous life so for example with a most people see me as a hotel spa guy. I spent the first half of my career in the hotel. Business the second half of my career in the spa business so over the last thirty years quite thirty. I'm not that old. I'm the hotel spy. But i'd like to think that bring more to the table and more to the conversation then just being the hotel spa guy. I've liked to think. I have a fair amount of knowledge and information and opinions that could be useful and even valuable in relation to a whole bunch of other topics like branding or marketing or voice or technology in general or startups even so i could go onto these new platforms and not just be trent. The hotel spa guy. I could be trent. The business guy. Trent the marketing guy. Trent the voice technology guy. Now i'm not claiming to be an expert in those things. And that's not what i would recommend you do but you can get on the and say that you have knowledge and experience or opinions in all of these areas that you're interested in or just one so if you want to branch out and try and try to reinvent yourself using the social media platforms to do that without making crazy outlandish claims i recommend that at all. Because there's enough that rubbish out. But i do believe that using these social media platforms like clubhouse to reinvent yourself to try to dabble at another area of interest. I think is a really really empowering thing and i think sometimes that gets lost in all of the negativity that we talk about social media. It's no there's nothing wrong with trying to reinvent yourself as long as you don't claim to be something you're not so i reckon did on these social media platforms. Think about what else you want to dabble in and see if you can add value to those conversations. Maybe you can't. Maybe i think. I know a lot about technology and so i get on inside on interested in these these conversations i get in there and realize i know nothing doesn't matter i've dabbled. I found out that. I'm really out of my depth. So go back and reinvent myself in another way so using social media to reinvent yourself i believe is an empowering thing

Trent
Guiding Principles of Secure-Functioning Couples

LifePix Relationships With ST

02:42 min | 2 weeks ago

Guiding Principles of Secure-Functioning Couples

"One of the principles of secure functioning couples is that we don't Is that we repair injuries. Quickly very important to repair injuries. Quickly right unrepaired. Injuries going to long term memory right and then they often come up four fights later or six later. You right so repair injuries quickly. What were they go into long term. Memory that's great bet. You don't shy away from disagreements. you're you know you both make your your individual selves in explicit. I think it's important that that nobody folds that we each stand on our own two feet. We each have a good strong spying Spineless it it holds our head up. We see out of out of our eyes and out of our mouth comes our perspective and hopefully our partner can take it. Hey i'm not standing over there. That's why i don't see things that way so you know. I think that's great. I think. I think i think die. You're sort of suggesting that christie christie broad on a better die and ultimately gave you the courage to to be fully engaged in these disagreements and not not hide or runoff to to be fully known to christie which is which is phenomenal. Somehow she created that safety in your couple you know and then christie talked about this thing. You know that that that you know. I think i think you both recognize that. If you're to activated. I mean one of the things out when people are are are two activated. Is that the error rate increases tremendously so green vines or green garden. Hose look like green snakes. And we're just like you know we we misperceived and it just it just amps up the activation so the fact that you guys can wait until you deactivated is fantastic. I think one of the other things you can. Do you know one of the things i recommend is that couples couples become excellent That christie becomes an excellent di- handler and that die becomes an excellent christie handler. We we learn how to reach in ensued so that if die is to activated you might also say die. I do that thing. you know. it's wrong of me. I know. I know it it. It triggers you. I'm so sorry you look you know. Come on what. Can i do to bring you back in faster than salt. You

Christie Christie Christie
Maryland-based Emergent BioSolutions is making doses of coronavirus vaccines

WBZ Midday News

00:38 sec | 2 weeks ago

Maryland-based Emergent BioSolutions is making doses of coronavirus vaccines

"US continuing to look for more covert vaccines, solutions and, in some cases, kicking off production before even getting approval for use. Spies are announcing their now rolling out doses faster than originally planned, cutting their production time in half. While the one does Johnson and Johnson vaccine is waiting for emergency use authorization in Baltimore, workers at Emergent Bio Solutions are already making the vaccine. We grow the cells in there. We didn't infect the cells with a viral vector that will ultimately be propagated in this tank and then subsequently purified to make the vaccine. ABC News got an inside look at the process as they get it, ready to be shipped

Emergent Bio Solutions Johnson Baltimore United States Abc News
Tips For Staying Sane

Mentally Yours

05:16 min | 2 weeks ago

Tips For Staying Sane

"Welcome erica stevens mentally yours. Thanks very much for joining us so we has just about your book even together. The guinness guy tucson sannoussi Why did you want to create this. I had. I've always wanted to write a book about my experiences with psychosis but i kind of felt that it would have more to offer offers a book if i listed the help of a co author. He was a professional in mental health. An augment stephen a conference on and it was about schools. New routes tibet to catholic schizophrenia. anti newell basket sphere. Its area of expertise. Less ask him. let's ask him and he was for. And so we started writing this book together But just felt the kind of just mike spirit. Just the expert by experience will lived experience on and maybe wouldn't hold water. I thought that it would be much better. Talbot's that too. What about east stephen so obvious similar oversee from a professional perspective. So as okay said. I have kind of specialized in researching schizophrenia for twenty five years and look after any large number of patients with illness and other and had wanted to write a book that would be accessible to them and to a wider audience. But also one. That wouldn't be too dry rocket dynamic and around about the time. I'm i'm erica. I also told by various agents event. If i wanted to write a book like this. I definitely need to get Lots of people stories in it so lots of people with lived experience contributing Beating erica was a very happy coincidence and from there took us a while to get going but i think we broke during two eighteen and then finished off in nineteen before publishing of this year. And who would you say that. It's forty anyone with schizophrenia. And anyone is interested in like working schizophrenia. Or care and put some moments schizophrenia. Like a friend or a loved one. Yeah i think. I anyone who's got Or any other type of psychotic illness. This a few different types of psychotic illness Bipolar disorder for example People often have psychotic symptoms of that and other conditions. That are less common so anyone kinds of problems. Anyone looking off to them girlfriend. Mother father sister brother hawks would also. Perhaps anyone is our cassette. Just interested in knowing a bit more about psychosis genuine schizophrenia in particular so one of the psychiatry senior trainees kindly read the book. drafts and coming to the drafts to improve the readability. Apparently who has no connection health connection was he apparently likes reading the extent. For at least it's it's worked. It's an interesting one for me. Because i was now hundred solder and i had psychosis so it would have been lucky to have a ham but like the i think when i i have my my first bit of mania because the thing is it happens and then you get back to normal source of reading. I what's happened to. Why as happened what to do next radius. That's almost as bad as well as just happened in a way. That kind of Mystery around it. Will this fair around it. You're right to tell us a bit about your experiences again our. We've always had you on the poco before that was a while ago. now so you're right to tell we re to go right to tell listeners about your experiences psychosis first episode. Was rhinos on about twenty two Fourteen hours say it's been about two decades of living with psychosis Something i can manage quite well with medication and different therapies But it can be quite terrifying when you have a psychotic episode and there's definitely more at the start of the illness later on and i think the police spying on me. I think i've committed really henious cry and all much like a burglary or you know so of a monkey or something really say area slight blowing up canary war types areas And i just really believe. It's true. And i might start to think the The songs i hear on the radio have been written especially for me to kind of condemn more behavior or the tv might be talking to me in subliminal messages and is terrifying united states ironic to me how much fear or inspire notice when they hear a half psychosis when the reality is you know. I'm just terrified myself. Really in a housebound when it's happening.

Schizophrenia Erica Stevens Mike Spirit East Stephen Erica Psychotic Illness Bipolar Diso Psychosis Tucson Talbot Tibet Stephen Okay Hawks United States
Putin critic Navalny in court again, this time on slander charge

10 10 WINS 24 Hour News

00:41 sec | 2 weeks ago

Putin critic Navalny in court again, this time on slander charge

"Russia says it's expelling diplomats from Sweden, Poland and Germany for taking part in what the Kremlin calls on lawful rallies supporting Russian opposition leader Alexei Navalny. Elaine Cobb tells us this comes as no volley of all navalny that is again went before a judge spied Western coals for his release. Alexei Navalny was back in a Moscow court today, this time on charges of slander. The Kremlin's most prominent critic, is already in jail and after he was sentenced to almost three years for parole violations following his return to Russia last month, he is accused of slandering a World War two veteran who appeared in a pro Putin video. Europe's top diplomat is in Moscow today and is expected to urge his counterpart to free

Alexei Navalny Elaine Cobb Russia Poland Sweden Germany Moscow Kremlin Europe
"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

04:56 min | 2 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"Now you'll walk almost the end of half moon street certainly beyond halfway. You will walk past the hilton key on the right side the west side of the streets that you can see the flemings hotel clearly. There has often been a lot of building work going on here. It still As the boundary of shepherd market is still very highly sought after location. You'll see it's a fairly quiet straight even though you can see piccadilly running along the end at the south so it's being redeveloped but fleming's hotel has been here from very many years. It's nothing to do with. The inflaming is famous espionage circles. The hotel is very nice. We actually did the photo shoot in the bar of the hotel for the first set of spy walks that i did with airbnb. And it's a really nice bar. It's a basement bar and it's called monitors. These are all very interesting things because a basement bar has no windows. And therefore it was used by people like vera atkins to meet her spies. Her agents and debrief them before they perhaps went off for a long meeting in one of the flats and offices around shepherd market so menendez was attractive because it had no windows. But what i found when we're doing the photo shoot for the spy walks was it has no phone reception either so we had to keep going outside to get the photographers cell. So we can talk to him. And so i find interesting that there's a bar with no windows and no cell phone signal way you can meet. Spies right in the middle of london just off piccadilly fleming's hotel is also interesting because it was the home of bertie wooster and the christie house connections to the hotels. Well they believe it is the model for bertram hoteling agatha christie. Although other hotels claim that credit as well the likelihood is that i she did stay here when she was in london quite often that at least some elements of this hotel. The looking at today have made it into her stories as part of bertram although she is not a spy writer us such you do find a crossover between mystery stories on spying. A lot of spy. Novels are actually mystery novels. That happened to have some espionage content. If you believe anything on wikipedia you will know that. Bertram hotel is popularly believed to have been inspired by brown's hotel however the oxford dictionary of national biography. That suggests fleming's because agatha christie was known to stay at fleming's fleming's is one of my favorite hotels in this area. Because it's so little known it's kind of you have to be in a certain group of people to really know about it. They might disagree. It's been there for over one years. I think it's been on this site since it opened in eighteen fifty one. It certainly is old enough building and it looks like it could have been and they really play up. Their spike connections to bar is lovely. It's a really nice place to finish the walk. What we never did on the airbnb walk was actually going for drink because the cocktails are a little expensive but if you have to budget if your hair traveling to the uk on holiday it's definitely worth going in and getting a beer or cocktail in mineta's bar in the basement of fleming's before i had my world to walk also used to talk here about christina scar back. Because she was one of the agents vera atkins would have run and probably met in this hotel and the wonderful biography of christina by clan. Malay- is definitely worth a read. I will be reviewing that book. The spy who loved by clem molly in a future episode of spies of london. But i mention it because this whole war can indeed..

flemings hotel vera atkins fleming fleming's hotel christie house bertram airbnb agatha christie menendez bertie wooster Bertram hotel brown's hotel london wikipedia christina uk clem molly
"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

04:53 min | 2 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"Every day i after having lived here six years. I'm by the grace of god leaving on the moro so i think michael makes sound beautiful. It's an absolutely prime location. There's a florist. Those bars and restaurants is a sociable place. But it wouldn't have been quite as upmarket as it is now and it's not a market now relative to mayfair. It's definitely much more accessible. Perhaps working-class loan bachelor looking to be aspire to be able to afford a flat here now wouldn't be able to afford to rent a fly here now but it's definitely not got the grandeur of the rest of mayfair but even then the novelist the the narrator here is happy to be leaving mayfair happy to believing shepherd market and there is something sinister about the place. It's a place for social meeting and interaction but also for spying. Depression and a lot of the spooks would debrief. They're spies and agents in rooms above shepherd market social on the ground floor sinister upstairs and i think that's how i like to think of it. We will be walking past the grapes. Heading up towards heywood helen. Trump has baba's. There is a really good jonah. Keri story to come and then the walk proceeds past so talent back down to green park station. You will now walk east along. The main footpath few shepherd market and you will soon see the grapes pub upon the left. Take a left of the grapes. Walking north northbound to curzon street on your left you will see. Max brothers. The red bookshop. Now i'd like you to stop outside my brothers and look across the road across curzon street. He will see hayward hell on your left and gio f. Trump has barbas on your right. The reason for stopping here is that. I believe this must be where john kerry stopped when he was thinking of the same in tinker tailor soldier spy when george smiley meets roddy martindale george. Smiley is clearly to carry his best known character. He was played by alec. Guinness in the tv series in the seventies and by gary oldman in the recent feature film naughty martindale as the drunk who likes long lunch and not exactly george smileys normal cup of take and they bump into each other. Quite accidentally so smile is on his way to heywood hill bookshop to sell an old grandma's house and german novel in german. I think it's a first edition. The reason he's doing this is that his divorce from an lady and smiley is taking a long time and she seems to have control of the bank accounts so he's only access to ready. Cash is to start selling off his rebel collection so he has walked from by water. Street in chelsea is home through the rain book under his arm and he's about to arrive at heywood hell so i believe he would have either emerged from the archway..

heywood helen green park station Max brothers Trump barbas roddy martindale shepherd Keri michael jonah naughty martindale Depression george smiley george smileys hayward heywood hill bookshop john kerry tinker gary oldman
"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

04:26 min | 2 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"So what this does is. It produces at least three locations. It's the the bench. The dead letterbox itself and lamppost allows you to check and double check and triple check that. The coast is clear before during and after the drop this takes a lot of time. but it's virtually foolproof. Is very unlikely that you would have been followed to all three locations without noticing lead been followed and of course if necessary you can add further steps along the chain depending on how secret document might be. I really like these gardens. The bench was definitely used by the kgb. We have this from people who've been captured or been naturalized likely vinko wants to become british citizen literal. We will now leave the gardens back towards south street in the west seal their past the mayfair library and take a left onto south street and the lamppost is harder to find now. It's outside number. Two orderly square or the square is not a square and it's been boarded up for some years. Because there's a massive redevelopment project going on behind some body areas but is next to the women's social club fe famously. One of the few social clubs exclusively for women and you should find it fairly easily bought. This is one that. It's very hard to describe so take a look on google maps. Women get lamppost again. There would be a chalk mark in blue or white just above head height and somebody would walk past brush past mark the lump host and there was a figure of eight on the lump person it would be just below there then later on. The chalk is removed. It's checked triple checked. And then they go back can remove the mark from the bench and that recess the system so this was laborious. it was difficult but it was virtually foolproof. Typically the paperwork would have been stolen from one of the many embassies in this area. There are very many in mayfair. Park lane curzon street. Even today and the perhaps we're even more back then so it was very easy to steal a document mark the lump postmark the bench take it to the dead letter. Drop lever there for cultivars check his gun and then back to work after lunch or in the next morning so in this. First part of the mayfair cold walk we started in grosvenor square gardens. We saw the old american embassy. We saw purdis gun shop and we saw mount street gardens and the lamp post on south..

vinko mayfair library kgb google mayfair grosvenor square gardens american embassy mount street gardens
"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

04:54 min | 2 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"Six have been tracking a foreign prince a middle eastern prince who perhaps might be slightly large around the mayfair and making sure he doesn't cause a diplomatic incident his john day to had been spent hanging around mount st while fatboy had himself measured for a pair of purdy shotguns. First precariously brandishing a try gun. That's a practice test gun around the premises then throwing a tantrum. When he discovered he would have to wait two years before they were ready. And then later on. They're watching fat again from van outside a shuttered. Whorehouse here in south audley street the whole houses of south audley street are not widely advertised. Not obvious on this walk. But the interesting thing to me is that john kerry when he worked for my five worked in the building that you'll be seeing h. On this wall like field housing kuzma street. So john's lunch times would have been spent himself hanging around south orchestrate incurs street and therefore many of the locations in his earlier books and his perhaps most famous books tend to be from mayfair. More later now. The reason i liked per is because yes. The guns are intricate and expensive and highly regarded both as weapons for country shooting and as works of art in terms of the fine metalwork on them in the the woodwork on them but they also do a nice range of clothes racks jackets and so on and this shop is just great fun to look around his really old fashioned and traditional and just everything that makes mayfair great is exemplified by visit to purchase gunshop however however we are not going down south audley street we have we have a date in mount street gardens so we are heading east along mount straight past all the shops in the fancy restaurants. And on the right you will see an estate agents and passage along the side of the estate agents. Which takes you into mount street gardens. Sometimes as georgia's gardens and when you walk through first of all let me say it's even more of a favourite with me than grosvenor square gardens because it smaller. It's more intimate. It's sort of l-shaped which means you get little heidi corners here but also because eight is famous for kgb activity and you will see straight away and since georgia's gardens. Their high number of benches wooden benches many of which new would not have been there during the cold war however many of them were there during the cold war. And i've got information. That and i quote the second bench on the rights was used as a kgb signaling system to communicate with spies now the wrestlemania benches now that it's difficult to understand the second bench on the right..

mount street gardens mount st john day fatboy purdy john kerry grosvenor square gardens john georgia kgb
"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

19:13 min | 4 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"Intern before casselle off spare. So let us rewind a little bit through the life and context of Edgar speyer in London the head of a rich and famous Bank home and part of a banking Dynasty which stretched across the globe. There was a spare in New York and there was a spare in London and there were spiders in Germany in the late eighteen hundreds as well as Long Island him say spell his name is virtually unknown today except that he is one and indeed the first of only two men to ever be stroked at the request of the government from the role of the privy Council. In other words Spire was a privy councillor one of those very few people who is entrusted with key Constitution wage. Decisions in the UK and the privy Council of course is headed by the Monarch today. It would be the Prime Minister plus a few senior ministers plus a few Lords. They are absolutely top people in terms of the British establishment. So speyer has the unwelcome distinction of being the first of only two people ever to be removed forcibly from that privy Council because of his own allegiance to Germany at a time when Britain was very much anti-german to try and understand or compare who spare was he was described as the king of the London Underground a public benefactor patron of Music in the Arts and he did in fact start galleries found theater companies. He's done all kinds of Arty things in music and art itself. He was a regular guest Downing straight. The prime minister at the time was Herbert Henry asked with Edgar was known very well in all the right circles. So if I think of who that might be today, well, I wouldn't think of a Bangkok I would think of somebody not like Alan sugar who is well-known enough. He's a self-made millionaire where a spare really had banking in the family. So I'm not sure if his home early life, but he didn't feel like a self-made man. He felt like a guy who came from a very wealthy family from the beginning. In other words. He was used to people listening to him. He was used to getting his own way. And I think that should be understood. It was not used to having to justify his actions to anybody least of all the king of England. So then you think of somebody like Bill Gates in America or thought maybe somebody like James Dyson in the UK, but I'm struggling to think of somebody who is Rich and Famous enough to be compared to spare cuz he was famous at the time but not from a entrepreneurial self-made background. So he wasn't like a rockstar today individual Bankers are very far from the public gaze. Now that song Because of the financial crash I think you would find it hard to mention unless you work in finance and have someone who has worked in finance. I find it hard to think of anybody who is well-known enough wage a banking background to be compared to spare. So these were different times Banks were not the global conglomeration that they are today. They were much more localized much smaller much more of an old boys network, especially in London. It's my challenge to you guys to think of somebody who is from a banking background, but famous enough to to count as a spare for today is a very difficult thing to do. Okay. So I think I've made that point as the the title of this book suggests. It is a case study not a biography so he doesn't put in enough about Spire to be considered a biography of the man. It really focuses on his time in London and just gives you enough contract to understand what happened in the nineteen tends to expire in early 1920s without going through everything that happened in his childhood and so on. So the question that the author gives us is what Aspire a traitor Escape Goldberg. Or a spy and he attempts to put before as the evidence so that we can decide for ourselves which is a nice little mystery to set his off on it is important to remember that in the 1890s and Thursday 1900 s France Germany and Britain were pretty much allies. I mean they traded together they had cultural things in common. Obviously, they had a different language. They all had a different career choice, which of these were different times but they sort of grudgingly rubbed along the same road, even if they're in different Vehicles. It's how I would think of it and it wasn't until the first world war and the years leading up to that page Germany really became an issue for Britain. And so what we found was a little bit like with the Russians in London today London in Britain was full of Germans full of French people going across the business. They were fully integrated into society. They spoke brilliant English. Yes, they had, you know our names they were clearly different, but they were perfectly acceptable in society job. An establishment spare would become a privy councillor. He was Leading Light in in building the Metropolitan Railway, which opened in 1863. So there is an absolutely no suggestion that I can find out that there was any kind of grievance garage or any kind of Suspicion about Germans in Britain until probably 1910 or the very early nineteen hundreds at least and indeed speyer had come to see London England as his home. He felt more at home here than he did in Germany and he traveled regularly to America to work on business with his members of his family his brother ran the New York house and he had family running the bank in Germany what I've done which is unusual for me is to make this a much longer and better book review than normal because I think this mayonnaise this topic is so fascinating as I've said, especially for me with with a German family that I've put my notes the highlights and shares that I've made in my ebook Edition on Goodreads so you can see dead. All of the notes that I'm using and there are more on Goodreads than I have time for in the podcast. So we arrive at the first world war 1914 and as the war intensified so did freeling against the 50 g eight thousand Germans resident in Britain. So this was not just two or three people sixty thousand Germans were fully integrated living in Britain. Most of them would have been living in the south east and London, of course, they are today, but it became difficult for them. And the people the Press even started to make a distinction between enemy aliens. In other words proper Germans found the 6 and 1/2 thousand also 10% of people who were naturalized in other words. They had taken steps to make themselves British. But of course were German by birth within the names and German families back in Germany. So around 10% of the British resident Germans considered themselves to be British or you know, more than half British or they were quite dead. Here and didn't ever want to go back to Germany, especially during the war. So in January Lord Crawford raised with the Lord Chancellor the possibility of revoking the citizenship of the 6 and 1/2 thousand Choice Germans. And of course, there was one of these so things were on the tone and I suspect it was a frightening time to be in London in particular. I think possibly in the distant provinces. This was not intense but in London where there were mobs there were the possibilities of large crowds demonstrations and indeed spaz house in Grosvenor Square was attacked and this is where the king took his famous Outburst where he said if you're going to intern the Germans you can internally first because I'm German and everybody in my family is German. So this had a particular poignancy the king consider yourself to be German during a time when Britain and Germany were at War and this was going to be a bad War this was going to be a really bad thing that lasted for longer than people thought. Affected that killed millions of people and affected millions of families for generations and this antagonism that began here continued on and ended up causing the second world war. So these were serious times. Nobody knew quite what was coming then of course, but nevertheless you have a German King a self-proclaimed German king of Britain and people are cheating the Press leading the charge to get these Germans sent home effectively and you can imagine what reception they might have had because the German people would have seen them as British. They all turn upon mass is Germany during a war. They would have been thrown straight into prison or worse. And of course, that's what people wanted here was for them to be thrown into prison for the duration of the war. But by the time the US entered the war in April nineteen Seventeen years, so, you know, it's an easy target to say too little too late, but enroll the Americans to steal the glory at the end James speyer and Edward bite of inspire had severed the connection with each other's banking job. I'll say this but until then spare and Co had continued as before to conduct a large-scale business with Germany. So the London house severed its connections with Germany, but the American house in April 1917 was forced to cut its ties with the German banks. So the tide is turning in America as well as in Britain. And because Spanish was so rich and famous and well-known. He became a lightning rod for a lot of this denaturalization internment argument and he became a subject along with a guy called Castle. It was not particularly the subject of this book. They were sort of mentioned if anybody was to talk in generic terms about denaturalizing sending home Germans sponge and Cassell with the two names that they use as examples. That's how famous they were in the Press not just in Social establishment circles, and of course speyer started to do things off. Which were planning for various possible outcomes. So any War has two possible outcomes, either one side wins or the other side wins, and of course because the country of spares birth was fighting the country that he now lives in he made investigations to see what would happen should either of those outcomes occur and he obviously continued to write to members of his family in Germany even towards the end of the war when such things were discouraged frowned upon and possibly illegal. So this is where things really start to go badly wrong for spare the British foreign office in budget establishment starts to collaborate. Some would say collude with the American authorities to gather evidence about spaz business and personal activities America London and Beyond with the specific game of trying to get his British citizenship revoked. So there is a general mood against natural log. Germans living in Britain and there is a specific action focused on speyer by the British government pretty much in response to public demand and they don't sort of it's not the situation that they've been presented with evidence and then they charge him with a crime and then they have a trial they decided to have a trial and then went about looking for the evidence and this is kind of democracy at its worse slowest because it it shows how they arm of the state hand in certain situations when the public demand is so great just handed to the Mob and that's exactly what happened to speyer the government turned against him secretly behind closed doors and without his knowledge and began tracking him. They opened his mail. They sought evidence from America and South Americans were actively looking for small slip-ups that they could then turn into a big story and hold a trial and remove his citizenship. I think as somebody who's dead. Never lived abroad or emigrated anywhere. It's hard to understand the meaning of this today because the world is so globalized. It really doesn't matter. What passport you have most of the time you can travel a long way you like even if you have to get a Visa, it's quite easy. There are very very few countries. Even Saudi Arabia now allows tourists, you know, there are very few countries that will not let you in as long as you have a passport from somewhere and it's not a country that they are actively fighting against or having some kind of diplomatic beef with at a time of war or at a time of pandemic or a time of Crisis wage, which passport you hold suddenly becomes important and you suddenly with brexit to you suddenly have to think carefully about which passport is best for you. So now you have German residents in Britain applying for jobs passports. You have British people in Germany with British passports trying to get German passports to try and make sure that whatever happens with brexit they'll be okay in their families will be able to continue living wherever they are today. Yep. Happened to the first world war as well people started to really think okay. I'm a naturalized British citizen what happens if Germany wins the war they're probably going to come to Britain occupy the country and round apology room and practise. So the British people saw the Germans as traitors and the German people would see those living in Britain as traitors and that's why I like this book so much. It really makes you look at today's world and think about who is who and and where do you live and what relevance does that have to your life? So when you here recently about black and mixed-race people in Britain feeling on the edge of things feeling singled out when you have European people in Britain feeling marginalized and singled out through brexit when you have the pandemic marginalizing be a many people and the poor as well. And if those two things happen to intersect the pandemic will affect you disproportionately in the financial crisis, which is not on this song. Of course where the money was transacted and where the transactions were domiciled started to have implications about how the government's would handle those debts. So suddenly it was important whether your mortgage had been bought by Indian bank and sold on to some Saudis in in the good times that nobody cared. So it's when there's a war when there's a crisis when there's a disease suddenly people have to look at themselves and think okay. Am I British wage on my German? Who am I and what do I do if the worst happens and the worst could be Germany winning or for some people it could be Britain winning these kind of Crisis really push you to undertook you are what you want where your family's going where you live and all the most fundamental things about your life, which do not get asked in peacetime. And this is why I think this story is so great because spare has been really pushed and of course, he's wealthy. He's not an average person. Just trying to make a living somewhere. He is wealthy. He knows the Prime Minister. He knows the king. He's famous wage. Today would have zero sympathy. He's the Elon Musk of 1920s Britain zero sympathy people could easily just say this guy is different from ours. He's crazy his German Dead He's Rich. He's never going to struggle no matter what and although that is all true. I do think that for them for topic wealthy people a hundred years ago had more sympathy and standing in society then they would have today. So today everybody criticizes Bill Gates full of his vaccine activities and he's philanthropy certainly in in Europe. He is heavily criticized. Whereas a hundred years ago. Bill Gates would have been a establishment figure. He would have been looked up to he would have been given a title if he lived in the UK, he would have been Lord of something and he would have been a pillar of society as a cash buyer was so business people rich people. Yes, they were different. They were not as sympathetic as the deserving poor as as the Kings might have called them down. Not a cynical about these individuals as we would be today. I think spare today would possibly have an even harder time than he had in nineteen Fourteen and and Beyond into the early twenties. And in fact, it's j trial for denaturalization didn't happen until years after the war. I told them so long to figure out what they wanted to do that the war was over for three years before he had his citizenship revoked which is ridiculous really at the end of the war. They should've said okay, you know, whatever happened during the war. Let's leave it there. Let's move on but they didn't they continue to hand him. But the way spray was treated and he did lose the case. He was denaturalized. He was humiliated off and it left a stain on his record. It left a mark on his life and his attitudes to Britain for the rest of his life because in his eyes, he just couldn't really understand or he he refused to understand and Pander to these stupid as he saw them true realities. Yes, he did research what would happen if Germany won the war and how he might be treated but so would you is just common sense and if you're a successful businessman Always looking at risk and the future and predicting what might happen trying to mitigate. That's just human nature. So in his eyes, he was British. He'd made a lot of money which had to put in in taxes. He'd founded the Metropolitan Railway had given Britain a railway system, which is still the Envy of the world today. He was kind of a hero in his own artists and until nineteen fourteen. Pretty much everybody would have agreed he would have been and was a pillar of the establishment. He was a privy councillor and then a few short years later. Not only is he thrown out with the privy Council? He's actually thrown out of Britain effectively way you can imagine the sense of burning Injustice. But and there is a bot Spire did not do himself any favors. I think his background the fact that he was used to getting his own way meant that he made some errors avoidable arrows in failing to treat these charges seriously enough at the early stages. He didn't get rid of his connections to America and Germany quickly enough. It looked like he was dragging his feet off. In the perhaps, he wasn't it looked like he was reluctant to assimilate with Britain when the war came and of course he was hedging his bets as any good Banker would as any Gambler would but this was willfully misinterpreted by the British establishment as a means to get rid of the risk and the threat of speyer because he was mentioned softer in the press and he was a lightning rod for internment, but he was harshly treated but the details of this and of course was he a spy? Well, you'll need to read the book to find out not in the way that we think of one. So this is a great book. I've read it twice now. I think it's fabulous on its own terms, but it's also fabulous because it allows me to think about my background and about how people who migrated to Britain are seen today and untreated today. You've got Windrush you've got brexit these issues. Although we don't have a war yet. We do have things which are forcing people to think about their nationality about their passport about where they choose to live if they have that choice and that's why off. In this book is well worth your time. It's called Banker traitor scapegoats by the Troublesome case of Sir Edgar speyer by Anthony Clinton as I say, I will post in the show notes my Kindle highlights so you can see it on Goodreads go and get it get the paperback get the book. However, you choose to read this book add it to your list for lockdown. It is brilliant off..

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

08:14 min | 4 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"His Fall From Grace, which is a somewhat tragic story any other decade, you know for Risen to prominence in the nineteen fifties sixties or anything after that or if it's finished his career before or 1900. We would never have heard of him, but he became really quite famous and was even mentioned by The King The King was outraged that people were protesting in asking all Germans to be interned wage. Excited to the wife of the then prime minister. Let them take me first. All my blood is German My Relations are German lets me the king the intern before casselle off spare. So let us rewind a little bit through the life and context of Edgar speyer in London the head of a rich and famous Bank home and part of a banking Dynasty which stretched across the globe. There was a spare in New York and there was a spare in London and there were spiders in Germany in the late eighteen hundreds as well as Long Island him say spell his name is virtually unknown today except that he is one and indeed the first of only two men to ever be stroked at the request of the government from the role of the privy Council. In other words Spire was a privy councillor one of those very few people who is entrusted with key Constitution wage. Decisions in the UK and the privy Council of course is headed by the Monarch today. It would be the Prime Minister plus a few senior ministers plus a few Lords. They are absolutely top people in terms of the British establishment. So speyer has the unwelcome distinction of being the first of only two people ever to be removed forcibly from that privy Council because of his own allegiance to Germany at a time when Britain was very much anti-german to try and understand or compare who spare was he was described as the king of the London Underground a public benefactor patron of Music in the Arts and he did in fact start galleries found theater companies. He's done all kinds of Arty things in music and art itself. He was a regular guest Downing straight. The prime minister at the time was Herbert Henry asked with Edgar was known very well in all the right circles. So if I think of who that might be today, well, I wouldn't think of a Bangkok I would think of somebody not like Alan sugar who is well-known enough. He's a self-made millionaire where a spare really had banking in the family. So I'm not sure if his home early life, but he didn't feel like a self-made man. He felt like a guy who came from a very wealthy family from the beginning. In other words. He was used to people listening to him. He was used to getting his own way. And I think that should be understood. It was not used to having to justify his actions to anybody least of all the king of England. So then you think of somebody like Bill Gates in America or thought maybe somebody like James Dyson in the UK, but I'm struggling to think of somebody who is Rich and Famous enough to be compared to spare cuz he was famous at the time but not from a entrepreneurial self-made background. So he wasn't like a rockstar today individual Bankers are very far from the public gaze. Now that song Because of the financial crash I think you would find it hard to mention unless you work in finance and have someone who has worked in finance. I find it hard to think of anybody who is well-known enough wage a banking background to be compared to spare. So these were different times Banks were not the global conglomeration that they are today. They were much more localized much smaller much more of an old boys network, especially in London. It's my challenge to you guys to think of somebody who is from a banking background, but famous enough to to count as a spare for today is a very difficult thing to do. Okay. So I think I've made that point as the the title of this book suggests. It is a case study not a biography so he doesn't put in enough about Spire to be considered a biography of the man. It really focuses on his time in London and just gives you enough contract to understand what happened in the nineteen tends to expire in early 1920s without going through everything that happened in his childhood and so on. So the question that the author gives us is what Aspire a traitor Escape Goldberg. Or a spy and he attempts to put before as the evidence so that we can decide for ourselves which is a nice little mystery to set his off on it is important to remember that in the 1890s and Thursday 1900 s France Germany and Britain were pretty much allies. I mean they traded together they had cultural things in common. Obviously, they had a different language. They all had a different career choice, which of these were different times but they sort of grudgingly rubbed along the same road, even if they're in different Vehicles. It's how I would think of it and it wasn't until the first world war and the years leading up to that page Germany really became an issue for Britain. And so what we found was a little bit like with the Russians in London today London in Britain was full of Germans full of French people going across the business. They were fully integrated into society. They spoke brilliant English. Yes, they had, you know our names they were clearly different, but they were perfectly acceptable in society job. An establishment spare would become a privy councillor. He was Leading Light in in building the Metropolitan Railway, which opened in 1863. So there is an absolutely no suggestion that I can find out that there was any kind of grievance garage or any kind of Suspicion about Germans in Britain until probably 1910 or the very early nineteen hundreds at least and indeed speyer had come to see London England as his home. He felt more at home here than he did in Germany and he traveled regularly to America to work on business with his members of his family his brother ran the New York house and he had family running the bank in Germany what I've done which is unusual for me is to make this a much longer and better book review than normal because I think this mayonnaise this topic is so fascinating as I've said, especially for me with with a German family that I've put my notes the highlights and shares that I've made in my ebook Edition on Goodreads so you can see dead. All of the notes that I'm using and there are more on Goodreads than I have time for in the podcast. So we arrive at the first world war 1914 and as the war intensified so did freeling against the 50 g eight thousand Germans resident in Britain. So this was not just two or three people sixty thousand Germans were fully integrated living in Britain. Most of them would have been living in the south east and London, of course, they are today, but it became difficult for them. And the people the Press even started to make a distinction between enemy aliens. In other words proper Germans found the 6 and 1/2 thousand also 10% of people who were naturalized in other words. They had taken steps to make themselves British. But of course were German by birth within the names and German families back in Germany. So around 10% of the British resident Germans considered themselves to be British or you know, more than half British or they were quite dead. Here and didn't ever want to go back to Germany, especially during the war. So in January Lord Crawford raised with the Lord Chancellor the possibility of revoking the citizenship of the 6 and 1/2 thousand Choice Germans. And of course, there was one of these so things were on the tone and I suspect it was a frightening time to be in London in particular. I think possibly in the distant provinces. This was not intense but in London where there were mobs there were the possibilities of large crowds demonstrations and indeed spaz house in Grosvenor Square was attacked and this is where the king took his famous Outburst where he said if you're going to intern the Germans you can internally first because I'm German and everybody in my family is German. So this had a particular poignancy the king consider yourself to be German during a time when Britain and.

London Britain Germany Edgar speyer prime minister intern New York UK England privy Council Long Island America privy Council of course Alan sugar London Underground Bill Gates Monarch Downing Lord Crawford
"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

04:57 min | 4 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"Welcome to Spies of London with me Paul dettman. This is a short trailer episode to advertise the forthcoming book Banker traitor scapegoats by the truck in case of Sir Edgar speyer by Anthony Linton just in case you want to read it first and follow along when I review the book in full in a future episode in the next week or two now I've read them before but I really wanted to cover it for the podcast because it struck a note with me because Edgar speyer was a German National living in London towards the end of the nineteenth century and he was also there for in London as an influential businessman when the first world war started and that's when his problems began and this is partly why we have bought a try to scapegoat spy reference in the title. Although it's an obvious not John le carre's Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy as well spare was initially seen with Jose. Suspicion and then later on there were calls for him to be interned with all the other Germans in the UK. He attracted particular attention because he was so prominent in both the US and the UK, he was a banker originally, but he also helped to fund the London Underground and the London Underground would not be the large transport Network that it is today without people like speyer who invested in it in its early days and saw its future long before anybody else. So I wanted to mention this that it's coming up soon in case I wanted to mention that it's cracked up soon in case you want to read the book for yourself almost like a reading group. It seems to me the podcast could work as a reading club for those who want to follow some of the books that I'll be featuring and the book starts with a comment from the author which says there is a danger not to be underestimated in resurrecting past miscarriages of Justice with the prospect that glaring faults of yesteryear will aluminum job. lessons to be learned today and I think there are lessons and mirrors in the way Germans were treated in the UK in the early part of the twentieth century, which map across in some ways to the way Muslims and other minorities are treated Whenever there is some kind of international incident terror attack or anything of that kind in the modern world. So Radtke moved in circles Thursday much higher than many of us. He lived with his wife leanora in a grand house in 46 Grosvenor Street Mayfair, which those of you who have done my Mayfair walk will know he's very close to change the American Embassy as it was until about 2018. Anyway spare was branded or of credited as the king of the London Underground a public benefactor patron of May and the art a friend of the Prime Minister. He was known to the press and in fact, his house was targeted by mobs as War got nasty and of course spare originated wage. What's a Jewish Merchant banking families of Frankford? So you've got the cloud of anti-Semitism lingering over the space as well? And in fact, this book Compares them to the Rothschilds, so they were highly regarded very wealthy highly influential and this success perhaps attracted more attention than he would have got if he'd been somewhat more than a lowly and stature and perhaps a little bit less successful professionally. He was also successful in the US as well. But as well as funding to London Underground in its early days, he financed the Whitechapel Art Gallery is a Founder trustee. He coordinated the financing of Captain Scott's Antarctic Expeditions, really just got involved in the Arts as much as Banking and business Life by all accounts was a decent chap, but this cloud of War spared nobody and the book goes on to detail his Fall From Grace, which is a somewhat tragic story off. Any other decade, you know, if it's risen to prominence in the 1950s 60s or anything after that or if it finished his career before 1900 we would never have heard of him, but he became really quite famous song even mentioned by The King The King was outraged that people were protesting and asking all Germans to be interned and the King said to the wife of the then prime minister. Let them take me first. All my blood is German My Relations are German. Let me the king be interned before casselle or spare and I'll leave you with that thought from this short trailer if you would like to book for yourself. It is Banker traitor scapegoats by by Anthony Lenten and it's about The Life and Times of Sir Edgar speyer. Thank you for listening to spires of London. Please do review our follow us off catch up with us wherever you like to get your podcasts..

Sir Edgar speyer London Underground London Jose UK King US John le carre Radtke Prime Minister Anthony Linton Spies Grosvenor Street Mayfair Anthony Lenten Captain Scott Whitechapel Art Gallery Frankford Paul dettman
"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

16:32 min | 4 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"Something happened during and after world. War Two. The completely changed the nature of my five. AM I. Five is responsible for security on the mainland of Great Britain and Northern Ireland but they have no powers of arrest. So they cannot take people off the street without the corporation of the police although they are responsible for the security of Great Britain they do get involved in overseas actions, but clearly am I, five does not have and has never had the exotic cachet of six the. Overseas. Intelligence Agency. The people who at least in our common mythology put people in harm's way on a daily basis and dash around with guns in hot and really exciting locations and my five agents usually a sitting Morrison's carpark with a pair of binoculars if the lucky so much for the Meth as always the some truth in that and a lot of falsehood, lot of misunderstanding and my five agents have been involved in dangerous operations overseas. But the has always been this overlap and disconnect and. Parity. All of those contradictory words that you could use to try and explain that tracking bodies is never a clean cut case of well, this operation is am I six. This one is five because it's mainly based in. Britain. This one is h q because it's mainly electric surveillance that has never been easy and I used to say to people on the walk. Am I six tracks people at long range over a long time and it's the kind of early warning system. As an event or an attack or some problem comes closer in time perhaps the agents, the terrorists whoever they are arrive in Britain to carry out whatever it is they're planning. Responsibility then Hanzo to a my five, and then when it comes time to arrest people that hands over to the police and in theory in fact, am I six, seventy, five and G. C. H. Q. in the police, it's opposed to cooperate and collaborate in a seamless fashion anyone who has experienced of the public sector or indeed the private sector knows that large organizations find it hard to collaborate seamlessly especially when the stakes are high. So looking at the recent Manchester bomb attack on the music concert, it turns out that the Police Fire Brigade. Am I five everybody made mistakes ambulance service everybody made mistakes everybody seems that the inquest trying to? Massage their role in it. And you can see why because when the inquest happens first of all bad news, you don't have an inquest if it's gone well, what you tend to find as with any other walk of life is that blame starts to get attached. And what you need to make sure is that you and your organization don't get the blame or at least they don't get much of the blame as. This has happened with the corona crisis. It happened with the financial crisis. He happens every time there's a crisis there's a flood of as a fire grenfell people are trying to divert deflect blame, and that runs through certainly British culture and probably Western culture and the rest of the well to nobody wants to get blamed nobody wants to take charge. So when you have a larger complex investigation all. Of the agents are supposed to be represented and at different times but sometimes things go wrong. The reason I mentioned this now is that it was never certain that Emma five and my sakes would become the two main security organizations. In this country you can tell from the numbers a my nine which was responsible for escape innovation and and getting people out of come like coldest during the war. Clearly, have no purpose wants to us over one day I'll do an episode on. Am I, want him I to rest of them, but you get the feeling that there is a potential future where there is only one service which covers my five and six and J. C. H. Q. and possibly has powers of arrest lightly American FBI as well, or there's a few to add more than these two or three services they could be split up. And all the time that that is at least theoretically possible, you will get the situation where people are trying to protect their own organization. Even if it's the detrimental, another one added to this is that M, I five is responsible to the. Home Office. Whereas my sixers responsible to the Foreign Office. which again sets up trade constraints and differences and differences in leadership at the top level, which can filter down through the ranks. So it was never guarantee that am I five would become. The British. Security Service. There was never been a British secret service officially, there is the Secret Intelligence Service am I sex and the security service had my five. There is no organization with the official name. Secret Service. Put together and I five my sakes and H. HQ could be considered the British secret service in other words relatively off the grid certainly until nineteen ninety four, they were never officially acknowledged. Allah everybody knew they existed but this phrase that's used now plausible deniability. Helps them to get away with things that perhaps they wouldn't have been able to do today or in the past if they had been officially accountable and transparent in the way that perhaps the police and fire brigade have to A. Lesser extent, the regular military as well, and also during second world. War, there was o the Special Operations Executive, which shows that join a specific crisis. A new organization can materialize, and then at the end of the war, it was never guaranteed that SOS would be disbanded. It could have been rebranded and modified put could have continued. It just happened that the politics which had driven right through the war got the better of it and it got disbanded largely and the people who were not let go were merged into him I six. So this paints a picture of uncertainty especially at times of war and internal political crisis of any kind like the Northern Ireland troubles for example, this all goes to show. That five's existence as the Prime Homeland Security Service the Americans would call it. Homeland Security was never guaranteed at any point in its past and certainly isn't guaranteed today. So with that brief overview behind us, we can now look more closely at the buildings something. I didn't know that am I five was based at Watergate House in the strand from nineteen. Twelve until nineteen sixteen that was when it moved to sixteen Charles Straight for the rest of the first world, war after that war, it moves to queens gay to nine, hundred nineteen and then to Cromwell road in one, thousand, nine, hundred, twenty, nine, remember that this was when it was just thirty two people. So nothing like the Organization of today it's in. Nine hundred, thirty, four when Emma five first arrives at. Thames House on Millbank now it's certainly Thames House back then was the same size it is. Now it's quite clear lake. Building with some status and some history. But if there are only thirty odd people is pretty over three, didn't take the whole building and I understand it just took part of the top floor of what's called the South Block which his the block currently occupied now as things get really interesting because in the Second World War, always London was getting heavily bombed. So Am I five moved out I to one would scoops prison and then further out to blend him in nineteen forty now, it's pretty clear that it grew substantially joined the War that growth as we saw with? So a moment ago was not guaranteed to carry on those people could easily have been redeployed after the war but in fact, in nineteen, forty, five was, when am I five moved slackened fieldhouse, which puts it into may found cousin straight and into my mayfair walk and it stayed there for thirty years until nineteen, seventy six. So these offices do not move often he was second fieldhouse throughout John Kerry's career there through John. Bingham's career and people like Guy Little Thomas Harris Kim Philby all worked. At some time or another in Infield House, it moved to one forty, Gal shooting nine, hundred, seventy six since demolished where it stayed until nineteen, ninety four when it returned the Temps House this time to occupy the entire building, and there is now a northern operation center from five in Greater Manchester. Now, that is a response to domestic terrorism, but also to the reality that to secure such large island as Great Britain requires detailed intelligence beyond London and I. Think one of the witnesses of my five shown by the Manchester bomb is that it can be too large to respond efficiently. So the new northern Operation Center is certainly a step in the right direction and just recently some smaller departments like the Northern Ireland Office of moved out of Tim's house to give him I five even more space it seems to me that they earlier heads of them. I five were far more colorful and memorable than the current ones. Some famous ones who jump out to May after Vernon. Kell. who was the first one from nine? Hundred, nine, hundred, nineteen forte longtime. Percy STILLETO. Who Ride for seven years in the late forties Dick White Roger Hollis who Peter Right fingers spy. Never been proved or admitted by anybody. Stella Rimington. Who was the first female had of five in the early nineties Eliza Manningham Buller Dame manningham-buller whose father was in the secret service as well, and then more recently. Andrew. Parker has just recently given it up to guy called Ken mccullum, but it's really Vernon cal. Dick. Quite Hollis would have been Kim Philby parallel universe who stunned out as the founding fathers. The people who really got 'em I five going and sustained. After the war as well. So that's a brief history, a brief look at 'em, I five through its buildings. You can see Tim's House on my Thames Walked Westminster Walk and like Infield fieldhouse on the mayfair walk. Gala straight we can see our straight, but unfortunately, the building itself has gone just before we hand over to Paul for this week's Book Review. We have our final factoid. Did you know that Guy Burgess had dinner with Donald Maclean on the night they escaped Britain? That's not the facts on the fact. So it is that Guy Burgess was introduced as a man called Racha styles Roger Styles is a made up name quite obviously. But it's made up from two names used by Agatha Christie Roger. ackroyd was one of her murder victims and the affair at styles was one of her books hence Roger Style. Anybody who'd ever read Agatha Christie would immediately wrong the Foreign Office. Now without further ado, let's hunter. Paul for his review of Rowland Phillips a spy named often the nickname of Donald Maclean. Thanks Paul. So I I read this book when it came out as an e book and it is extremely well written is very readable strongly recommended but this copy is the heart have in my hand which was given to me indirectly from a deceased person I never met friend who is clearing out of the house. So the book knew that I was into spies and suggested I could take it and I'm really pleased that I did because the hardback is so much nicer than the kindle version. The first thing to note is that inside the covers there is printed. A top secret memo which records the final days in Britain Don McLean with times, coded references and cross-references. This is clearly an official government document which has been released from the archives and it shows that at seven thirty. PM. McLean introduced Guy Burgess to Mrs McLean as Roger Styles. They announced after dinner. They would be going off to see somebody else and might be away the whole night. Neither of them were ever seen again at least not in Britain Rowland Phillips is a professional publisher working for John. Murray is not writer. This is his first book. It's brilliant. Surreal shaming. More, it's very readable really well done. It's produced by bodily hack vintage of Vauxhall Bridge Road, which is the road where myself says so I I really wants to grab his second came out because Donald McLean is something often the `Nigma as the title suggests I think there are several reasons for this one is that he was a very serious career man vague successful person whereas the guy he escaped with Guy Burgess was now London character, a gambler drinker, a party animal very outgoing. So Guy Burgess eclipsed virtually everybody who knew it and he had a very mixed reputation people. Loved. Guy Burgess or they hated him and many people went off him as he is behavior got more Marlon dish. So Guy Burgess stands tall as a character Kim Philby was famous because he was so senior in the secret service and because of his press conference where he said he was innocent and because he got the prime minister to state that he was innocent Philby was always the media player and able to manipulate the media whereas was private man I think these things together plus the fact that he escaped at the same time as Burgess means that he's always lumped together. As almost as one person as as they do on instagram now where this is a famous couple and emerged two names to get one name and people just call them using that one mixed up name. So Burgess Maclean always seemed to be Burgess Maclean. It's never maclean and Burgess Burgess and maclean almost became one spy. This is interesting because McLean didn't really know Guy Burgess spent very little time together until they escaped. Of course, people say that Burgess was meant to come home that he was meant to be escorting and helping McLean, but he was meant to return and he decided. At the last minute to stay away, and of course, soon after their escape, the finger of suspicion pointed to Kim Philby who then stole the limelight for the next few years and I think these things together ten sa- lead us away from the McLean story because Philby Burgess and the famous Anthony Blunt steal the headlines The to get forgotten always McLean and Ken Cross and I think in these kind of stories, it's better for you and your family and your friends if you're the one who gets forgotten. So I think McLean's family obviously had an interest in making sure that he was, misremembered or diss remembered in the mists of time. But another particular reason I had for wanting to focus on mclane was that he is buried a few miles from my house in Penn Churchyard and I went to see his grave in twenty eighteen as a result of this book coming out and I have to say my photo which I'll put. On the website is much better photo than the one in the book minds and color for start pretty clear to me that they text on the memorial of Don, McLean's father dolled himself, and some other family members has has been refreshed and polished is much clearer today than it was when this photo in the book was taken the flap say here that. Ronald Phillips had a lifelong connections to Don. McLean. Any story I'm not surprised. I think most of the British establishment had some kind of connection to the Maclean family. So Don McLean Donald do art McLean was a family man with a wife Melinda and two sons Donald and Fergus and I think this sets him apart as well. Kim Philby was married but was never commented on as a family man a true father. Burgess seventy not blunt not it's whole either so he was quiet. He was professional. He was committed to his cause do was a family man his father was part of the British temperament and he's drifted into the midst of time and I think this book more than any other book about McLean really brings not ho it says in the back cover that he was a diplomat, the husband Patriot, a traitor deceive when. A spy he was all of those things he was a massive contradiction and this is a very well written well researched data book, but it is still very readable. So I strongly recommend this to you either the e book audiobook all the hardback I particularly enjoyed heart buckling is a really Nice edition I strongly recommend it to if you want to learn more about the Cambridge five over say dealers do make an Appearance, but I think Donald Payne has been less well served by books and papers in both burgess onto filthy and to a lesser extent blunt as well. That's all I have for you this week. Pleased to give us a follow at a review on your favorite podcast APP. Remember these podcasts are completely free forever view to download I listen to wherever you like to listen to. You casts spies of London will return..

Burgess Burgess Britain Kim Philby Don McLean Manchester Northern Ireland Donald Maclean Burgess Maclean G. C. H. Police Fire Brigade Guy Little Thomas Harris Kim P McLean Donald McLean Emma London Paul Dick White Thames House
"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

04:00 min | 5 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"Welcome to spies of London with Paul Dataman. Okay. Welcome to this episode. It's our new format that we introduced last week we now have a book review every week, a shorter book review, the main pace, which could be fifteen or twenty minutes and some factoid like Steve Writing afternoon if you are interested in guest hosting on providing a book review and you have USB, microphone and some ability to get me an MP three. Then get in touch we would love to hear from you. Did you know that Portland spy Ethel J was released from.

Paul Dataman Steve Writing Ethel J London Portland
"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

03:55 min | 5 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"This is more of an active role. It's a sabotage well actually and it's not pure spying pure spying becomes almost like an art form sabotage impressive when it's important but it's more active than pure spying intelligence gathering. So when We get to the end of the Second World War the reasons for spying become less easy to understand what's the point when there's no water shorts and when most of the knowledge being peddled can be picked up on the Internet when there repairs no chance at all of mutual nuclear annihilation. What's the point now today and that's where I start to an out of answers why work for so little money in such dangerous parts of the world when there is no war why? Now what is the attraction now? So any number of justification can be found for continued surveillance into the present day. People like Edward snowden decided it was totally wrong and had to be brought out into the open and taught about impacts. He was right even if his methods was self harming maybe that is the measure of his sacrifice may be like all the rest he thought he would never be caught. The traitor always has his own truth and the traits of course is true to his own ideals true to himself and only traitor in the eyes of others Philby was no traitor wants you understood his worldview. Russia the side Philby chose were our friends wants at the time they were our friends for. Awhile APPS. They could be again twenty years from now after World Without Putin on clearly. But possible perhaps, they will become friends. Again, if we unite against a common foe, enemy's enemy is my friend until the first enemy dies and they become enemies again by the end of their careers both Smiley and Peter Gillam seemed to wonder what it was all about. There are moments when I agree with them yet I'm still John to espionage in legacy of spies Gillam. Mexico comment about being drawn to the secret flag and I think that's all WanNa. Be Novelists feel that poll anyone who is drawn?.

Philby Edward snowden Peter Gillam WanNa Russia Putin Mexico John Smiley
"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

04:59 min | 5 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"If you don't know about telemark. This is not the place to come today. I do have an article about telemark on the website. and. There is a film with Cup Douglas. Major. Major Hollywood film called Heroes of Telemark, which is well recommended. None of that will help you in the what happened. What happened was one of SOA's most daring and successful raids from the whole of the Second World War there is a plaque in Baker street on the office. They used to plan this amazing stunt in short. What happened was that Norwegians who had a understanding of the area had escaped from Norway under Nazi occupation somehow arrived in Britain they were then parachuted back into Norway. They overcame the defenses of the hydro plant. Destroyed it and prevented it from making heavy-water, which is an essential ingredient in a nuclear bomb, and then when they realized that the Germans had managed to get heavy-water stores or supplies into a boat and escaped. So they had enough heavy-water on the boat to make some bombs they blew up. The boat is absolutely unbelievable and early we're not talking about John Truth is stranger than fiction they had to move out of this. It was no surprise that this became such a successful movie with a massive cast because eight is absolutely unbelievable. If it hadn't happened, nobody could have possibly made a film of it and the reason I like Neil Baskin's book. There are many books about tally markets famous. seriously. Famous. This book has a front section with maps as list as a cast lead. So you know who was in various operations. Yuna are who was on the allied side including Winston Churchill and Roosevelt. who the German scientists were deserve map of Great Britain Norway remember this is an American writer for an American audience American publisher, how to pronounce Norwegian vowels, loads of photographs, the chapter headings, or even really nicely done, and there are photographs every two or three pages. This is a really accessible book, but it is not at all dumbed down for young adult audience and I've never liked the the time adult. The Hunger Games was young adult that was by the same publisher Harry, Potter, Adult, some of Sarah NBA's very scary and haunting novels are young adults, but they are good for any age and I think a good book is a good book. I'll get off the soapbox, but this is a good book. It is not for kids if it does get any teenagers involved in this world, then it's toilets job even better but I'm not saying that it. You should avoid this book if you're older than that I, think this. I've been reading SPY BOOKS FOR THIRTY YEARS. This is a good book. It's a great story strongly recommended and if it gets any body into the idea of military history espionage Cold War James Bond. It's fabulous recommended get this get the Nazi hunters fallen nail on twitter. He is just so readable. Well, thanks Paul. he was getting a little bit excited though I think that's the end of this week's episode. Thus the end of this week's episode episode sixteen we are looking for people who have a podcast setup, which means a USB microphone to appear as guests or possibly as an interview. So if you have a voice and microphone and the ability to push the voice through the microphone and recorded into MP three file and you know what all that means pleased to get in touch, we are looking at ways of getting guest hosts from other podcasts, friends of mine who Know about this world, even more than I. Do I'm learning as I go even after thirty years, we may start by having guest book reviews, but we definitely want to do proper to way live interviews this year. So it's that sounds like you get in touch if that's not you sit back and relax follow the podcast listen to the trailer read the website. There's a lot going on there on facebook instagram and twitter, and we love that you've listened to this to the end. It was longer than we expected. That's the beauty of podcasting spies of London will return..

Norway publisher twitter Great Britain Norway Neil Baskin Yuna Hollywood facebook John Truth Winston Churchill London Britain Sarah NBA James Bond Paul. instagram writer Harry
"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

02:59 min | 5 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"To kick off this episode with our first factoid and the factoid four today is that Roger Moore who wants play James. Bond cost us to watch bond movies in the everyman theatre in Girard's Cross Buckinghamshire Yeah I know you could have bumped into bond watching bond. So without further ado, the main topic for this week is John Look Hurry. Otherwise known as David Cornwell, I'd like to start with a nursery rhyme because I think you'll like it tinker tailor soldier sailor rich man poor man Begemann. Dr Baker Find Shoemaker, Wiseman Madman taxman please how.

Dr Baker Find Shoemaker Roger Moore David Cornwell Girard Wiseman James John
"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

10:21 min | 5 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"Did try to kill US cripples that purpose in doing the interview of cost to the opposite. So the fact that the VR never hits the news or at least not the mainstream news is perhaps one sign of success. One thing the research for this episode has shown me that the VR is very, well worth research is worth coming back to in a future episode and it does pay to get better acquainted with what they are trying to do because they are the closest to my sakes in the CIA of all of the Russian agencies therefore. Given that mix and CIA to that hit the news and hit the James Bond Film. So often in fiction that perhaps the ESPN should be better known than it is so I will be looking in more detail in a future episode out the SVR. So I've just got time for the final factoid before taking a closer look at the book for those people who thought that the Cold War ended when the USSR collapsed in the early nineties have a look at, Aldrich Ames who was charged in February nineteen ninety four with providing highly classified information from nine, hundred, ninety, five to the Soviet Union and Russia. It is believed that the information he passed let the execution of. Nine US agents in Russia in April of Nineteen, ninety, four, he and his wife pleaded guilty to espionage and tax evasion, and he was sentenced to life in prison without parole solo that spy starts in ninety five. He was active through the fall of the USSR on the Berlin Wall and as list here on Wikipedia of spies who were arrested during the nineteen ninety S, and in two thousand one Robert Philip Hanssen was arrested for spying for the Soviet Union for more than fifteen years out of twenty seven that he served with the FBI. So the Cold War never ended. Okay. So it's now time to handover to Paul for the review of the new spies by James Adams. Thanks Paul. So this book by James Adams, this is the paperback edition of James Adams from Nineteen ninety-four but Adams, himself claims that he takes him about three years to write a book. So it was certainly being evolved and researched as the wall was coming down and Gorbachev was being replaced by Yeltsin, and that fails these names to me feel like a different universe almost. Okay. So I was a teenager back in the. Early, nineties, but everybody felt like the fall of the wall in particular the dismantling of the USSR. So soon after it meant that the Cold War was over I think that that is the assumption that everybody made who was outside of this world. The book starts with a look at Tash Trees, which I've mentioned in the early factoid there a red brick mansion that was used entertain spies from behind the Iron Curtain and. After the curtain collapsed. It was opened up to people like James, atoms, western journalists, and intelligence agents to come and talk and see how things have changed to say that this kind of complex which was built in nineteen seventy-two by a Finnish architect and dominated by twenty two story main building was being dismantled but even here months after the fall of the USSR atoms claims that the buildings of tennis trees had an air of k the. Guardhouse a single wooden structure looks like a relic from Stallard Loft. Any size this in chapter one how times have changed five years ago the KGB had an army of three hundred thousand men kept files on millions of Soviet citizens absolute power to enforce. One of the most ruthless tyrannies ever seen three, hundred, thousand staff that dwarfs anything Britain ever had I'm pretty sure it dwarfs anything Britain combined with America ever had it was genuinely a secret. Police force which had informers in every avenue. Every corner of the USSR somebody claimed that there was no part of the world that had never been visited by somebody from the KGB and I think that's probably true to an extent at least in the places that were interested in any way. So in this time period way short time period form head of the CIA we're going to ten ashtrays and Russia talking to people in Moscow. One of the directors of the Sismi Sakes were going flying into hungry fly into East Germany Russia trying to lobby I suppose the former KGB to become more open, more transparent, more westernized but such a history of cultural spying and snooping was never going to disappear within five minutes and as I've just said there about the VR, it was the mid nineties. The legal framework was still being agreed and by nineteen ninety nine when Putin came along. I think he reversed pretty much everything that he could as quickly as he could. So James Adams feels privileged in sitting in Moscow with the head of the former. KGB and I think he was I cannot imagine that conversation happening today items felt thrilled and privileged to be allowed into the former KGB officers and to talk to people and to get the lay of the land it seems to me he was one of the optimists so. By page six, he admits that there were believers and skeptics the latter the skeptics argued that the Russian I was very much alive and a military coup or even take over orchestrated by the former KGB could see the communists revert to type today. So by nineteen ninety, four, the skeptics have either left or been forced revise their thinking as the reforms of proof to last longer than expected so I think some people expected the reforms to last. Literally five minutes, but three or four years after the coup the reforms were still ongoing and going in the right direction as the believers would see it. But now he says although the skeptics the real hard liners left, the community has divided between the true believers and the cynics who claimed that much of the old intelligence structure remains an has to be said from twenty twenty s perspective. The cynics correct there is absolutely no question about. that. Perhaps, some of the skeptics of returned the group of cynic say the KGB may have changed its name and its missions but we'll remain active against Western interests for the foreseeable future particularly in the former Soviet republics and immediately Belarus springs to mind. I bought this book as an optimist. I was very excited by the possibilities of the United Germany we had grown up in the eighties with the risk and the threat of nuclear war government. Films that were air-raid tests on a regular basis we were conditioned to believe that life on earth could be stopped within seconds at any moment, and although I didn't particularly by that because this idea of mutual showed destruction was meant to access tarrant and I think the Cuban missile crisis as long ago as the sixties shows that it did act as a deterrent people even in Russia were. So terrified of the possibilities of nuclear war that even the Russians even the USSR did. Not Stoop. So low and of course, famously only the West has ever detonated a nuclear bomb in anger in Japan. So we were growing up through the with fear of electricity being turned off every five minutes, coal strikes and shortages nuclear war. There are no doubt that the parents of that time were more terrified than the kids but for that to be switched off virtually overnight with the fall of the wall and the collapse of the art seemed like a massive story a massive. Event certainly as big as corona virus or the financial crash or any kind of hurricane or soon army. My Bait was a massive massive thing and for James Adams of professional journalists to write this book, hit the ground at the right time. The majority of people were optimists I've already said in a previous episode that John Kerry and some experts were never ever of the mind that the threat was finished from Russia, it was just regrouping evolving and they've been shown to be. Correct I feel that James was optimist back in the early nineties perhaps because he went there first hand and spoke to these people and realized they were just humans like everybody else. He wanted to believe that they had changed their approach and they did try I believe that until nineteen ninety nine Russia was very much desperately trying to modernize and join the international community if you like. But Times change attitudes, change people change and I'm certain now that the FSBA GRU if not the. VR have taken many many steps back towards their Kub past I'm not saying that this is good or bad true tried to be objective. Clearly. I. Don't agree with the script Nevada assassination attempts and I think that Russia should not pretend to be democratic I think if you're going to have elections, they should be free. In fact, there is their right to not hold elections. But if they hold elections, they should be fair wants and that goes for America as well as Russia. Democracy as we all know, he's a terrible idea but it's the least terrible idea that anybody's ever come up with for running a country and you should try everything you possibly can to be objective unbiased allow the elections in the votes to be counted properly. Clearly, that's not what is happening in the East right now there's been tensions in Ukraine Crimea Belarus. Now, we are a long way from Russia reestablishing the US saw, but we have a lot closer to that than we were. In one, thousand, nine, hundred, four. So I think James is an excellent rate. I really enjoyed it when I read it in the nineties I was on the side of the optimists. Then I was only a teenager I. Am now on the side of the cynics and the skeptics who would can see what is happening with chemical weapons assassination attempts political kidnappings, interrogations, fearmongering targeting paypal's families, and friends, and colleagues to try and silence them. This is a very dark time for many people. In many parts of the world, and this is where it becomes harder to stay detached because I didn't give talking about specific spies like Gordon Lonsdale back in the fifties is easy after fifty or sixty years to treat them in a somewhat academic and something's going on right now with is still in hospital Russian elections taking place Bellarusse in a big state Lebanon a big mess that becomes harder to detach, and it really tests your commitment to object vets and all the rest of. From this that I'm fighting that on a daily basis I, think you've got somebody being a dictatorship pretending to be a democrat dot is bad news for the people of their country and for everybody else in the world as well. Okay. So the book reviewed. So the book we reviewed in this episode was the new spies exploring the frontiers of espionage by James Atoms published. By Hutchinson Inland Thank you for listening the best where you can help us. If you enjoyed today's episode is to leave review on which ever podcast directory or APP you use doesn't matter reviews a good five star reviews are very much welcomed but even one-star reviews allow us to learn from our mistakes. Thank you for listening to spies of London spies of London will return..

Russia USSR KGB James Adams US James CIA Soviet Union Moscow James Bond America ESPN East Germany Russia James Atoms Aldrich Ames Tash Trees Paul Berlin Wall
"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

Spies of London

01:49 min | 6 months ago

"spies" Discussed on Spies of London

"Welcome to Spies of London a special episode on Alexei. Navalny. I've actually brought forward this episode on navalny off recorded a trailer on this last week unusually for spies of London where we are so used to dealing with people who lived worked and died decades earlier where there is a set amount of factual information books papers documents to look at this case is happening right now and there's been a development today. So we brought forward this episode to address it and the fantastic news not unexpected but nevertheless perhaps don't expect as.

Spies London Alexei
"spies" Discussed on Skullduggery

Skullduggery

13:50 min | 1 year ago

"spies" Discussed on Skullduggery

"You're going to be revising updating your exhibit so thanks for allowing talk about that first of all I could not be more proud of our staff here for taking on a controversial issue. The old spy museum everybody I loved. Everybody loves the new spy museum more and I think that's fair but we built a museum purpose. Built here in l'enfant Plaza to tell more stories and we didn't shy away from a controversial issue. We understand that we are not the spy. Museum is not beholden into the intelligence community. We're not beholden to any political bodies. Were not beholden to international intelligence organizations. What we we WANNA do is get the facts right and tell the story appropriately? We made a decision not under pressure from any constituency. We made a decision to listen to all sides of the argument in. We're going to make some adjustments. Or what adjustments. Are you GonNa make that exhibit. I'll just talk about him. Broadly because we're we're still working through that but first of all in unequivocally in unfairly the exhibit keeps being called the torture exhibit. It is not the torture exhibit. It is about interrogation. And we're GONNA make that clear. We focused maybe a a little bit more than we should have on the coercive methods we want to talk about non-core of interrogation we talk about torture because torture is a part of the interrogation history throughout history right throughout intelligence history. So what we WANNA do is we WANNA make sure one. More time that we get everything right and it's been mischaracterized that there are factual errors. We found one factual era that we corrected one. What was that? I think it had to do with the time line on one of the enhanced interrogation stuff in we have addressed. That what we WANNA do is make sure that it's balanced and that were factually accurate. Do you accept the basic conclusion of the Senate report which was that the techniques used by the CIA. Ah were were amounted to torture. So then you're getting into my personal point of view and on this I. I haven't gone on record talking about my point of view you because he had an opportunity to do so. Well I think now waterboarding in particular is considered torture right. I accept that unequivocally so the CIA engaged in torture. No because at the time they engaged what they believed was legal and it was authorized by thank. Doj Memos and. Here's the other thing that we tried to do. Michael we wanted to make make sure we contextualized the story. It's going to be in the long haul. It's going to be an important footnote in history. It truly is but it. Komo interrogation is much more broader torture throughout history as much more broader the question of Algeria. What the Japanese did what the Germans did? It has to taken in context. You deal with do you deal with grave. We don't because again that was Abu Ghraib unequivocally that I can talk about from from a personal standpoint. I was at. US Central Command. I was chief of human intelligence. I saw all the reporting. We had to make sure that they were interrogation plans in that they were appropriate. We had to make sure U S servicemembers. Who did the bulk of interogations were doing those interrogation Gatien appropriately that was simply an unequivocally a failure of leadership at the time? Unequivocally and I've been to Abu Baron. There's no question Christian but that it's on a different scale of the context of the immediate aftermath of nine eleven when emotions were high. The Americans demanded action action. And you know what it was America's program it was not CIA's program. That is not a talking point. I absolutely believe that it was America's program we all owned it and since there were adjustments made I think the sissies work there the Sei's is work is absolutely crucial in a democracy. That's what we have. That's what we have our legislators for that said there is a whole other point of view right. There's it's the other side of the aisle that had a counter to that report. There's CIA's Rick Lama. What we are going to do going forward? It make sure that people have access to that at the spy fascinating point. You make calling of America's program and I want to just make sure I understand what you're saying. Is that in the weeks. The months the early period after the attacks the sense of anger and the sense of of a need to strike back was so strong among Americans that that this was a program that they would have supported or did support through their representatives. There was of course stories about people like Dianne Feinstein and others. who were briefed early on? Is that what you're saying because after all this was done in black sites it was done secretly very few Americans knew that waterboarding was taking place. So what exactly do you mean when you say. It was America's program. It was a program that was stood up in the immediate aftermath of nine eleven. I wouldn't there was anger but there was also ah a complete sense of uncertainty. I don't want to speak for you but I thought I knew a little bit about the business of intelligence and I was uncertain I was unsettled for a variety of reasons. We all were and I think there was a lot or coherence in those ideas in the aftermath of of nine eleven in the CIA the IRA did and implemented a program that they thought would counter terrorism. And get after those who who were going to do harm to the United States because we didn't know if there was going to be another attack and I think it's really important for people to come to the museum to to listen to see. Listen not to me. Listen to the people that implemented that programme their perspective because we've offered them an opportunity -tunities to tell their story one of the consequences of those practices enhanced interrogation techniques. waterboarding is that nineteen years later the perpetrators of the nine eleven attacks have yet to go on trial because they've been held in Guantanamo. All all these many years but efforts to bring them to trial have been repeatedly stymied by the fact of the treatment they had had experienced. And how much of that can be admitted into public evidence in a trial of them. I the fact that so many years later we have not been able to put college Mohammed and his confederates on trial is an appalling statement on its face about the military military justice system we created for this purpose. The agree I agree that Guantanamo and the justice system it has been completely we uneven and it's completely inadequate for a variety of reasons and had to do with evidence that had to do with this kind of judicial whole this space that it wasn't the United States but it was under control of of the United States. No precedent has shut down Gitmo and and President Obama wanted to shut down in that people in the United States fought hard in our legislators did to prevent anybody coming to the United States by the way You know a trump on the campaign trail said he wanted to send more detainees to get mo- run you were there for that first. Year was that actively disgust gust. And if it's so and if so why wasn't that route taken so I can only speak to buy focus the first year and GONETANI MO- wasn't a top priority for me because at the time we were still knee deep in a fight to take the physical caliphate away away from more and more isis detainees taken into custody were were captured and the question was. What are you GonNa do with them so well? We didn't take them to Guantanamo. Why not that's right? Because they were still many of them. Were be still being exploited for intelligence for with our Kurdish partners rain right. The Kurds took it upon themselves. This goes back to why I have a healthy respect for our our our occurred Allies because they held those detainees. I've talked to reporters that said. Hey they're even doing to this day. The Kurds are even doing rehabilitation. What we did do what I can say we did? And I every foreign partner that came to see me and we had amazing foreign partners in the counter-terrorism space. I talked to them about taking back. Their own detainees. Because it's not a United States problem it's a world problem and along with Ali Safari and others in this goes to your point is well. We signed a letter saying the world community. He needs to take back. Those detainees because the real real problem is we have seventy thousand some odd number of women that are radicalizing and camp in Syria along with children in. That's future problem in. The world has to get their arms around us. It is not just a United States problem and I told every foreign born partner that came to see me very diplomatically that they needed to take responsibility. So that's what. I focused on Chris. The Spy Museum of course worse chronicles the history of espionage but history as we all know sheds light on where. We're going right so I want to ask you a little bit about the future of of espionage as you see it I WANNA start with a story that a Yahoo News published just recently about how technological developments. You know big data biometric screening has made it much harder if not impossible in some ways for human spies to operate in the digital age talk about the challenges of human espionage going forward. And I think you've got some views on on on some of the ways to sort of mitigate those problems yes yes oh thank you for that question. I think it's an important one and and again I think that the spy museum contextualized his history contextualized his current events with intelligence history and with the artifacts. And as you walk through the museum you see all the artifacts of intelligence history and technology technology. I think in time is going to cause us to go back to use some of the techniques. The tactics tradecraft procedures that we used during during the Cold War. Go back to personal meetings Do you go to a meeting with the with the cell phone or not when it has everything about you in who are you anyway. I am Ver. This is what I tell everyone. I am very happy that I'm not a case officer now Because I grew up in a different era. The legs about how hard it is to recruit crude these days when young people all have social media footprint. And if you wipe those social media footprints the bad guys know that you've done that and become suspicious or conversely Salihi. What's also happened is very idea? I think the article gets out and I like the article. John McLaughlin wrote it as John. Reid like that and people reached out to me to ask me my my opinion. I will also say that. There's a democratization of spying in spy tools. What do I mean by that what I mean? And that's not my original. Original idea was from another piece. I read I agree what's happening. Social media has a double edge sword it also allows non sophisticated intelligence service service when this was the domain of the biggest most sophisticated intelligence services. Now there's this idea that more people have access to social media more people. Oh Control Online. More people can build a relationship with people online. There's greater vulnerabilities. It's a double edged sword at the same time. Any technology going to a meeting means all of that stuff has to have appropriate backstopping. That is a complex problem. And I don't know how. Oh it's GONNA be resolved other than going backwards to some extent going back to the bricks and sticks as they say some of the tools that are in the spy museum. UCF or going back to personal meetings with the appropriate technologies really really ensuring that drops brush. That's exactly thank. We're going back to those old school techniques of passing secrets or obtaining them rather than through the digital means what you're saying to some extent. I think that's got to happen right. Because the technology makes intelligence officers extremely vulnerable in their operating in that space base now and I have a Lotta respect for. They're doing it and I don't have the details on how they may be better for spy movies spy novels right. You know you get those great scenes and parks. Yes yes well. It's clear for those interested in this subject that the best place to come in Washington to learn about them is the Spy Museum Chris. Kosta thanks for joining us..

CIA United States Spy Museum America Guantanamo partner l'enfant Plaza Doj Senate Abu Ghraib Yahoo Abu Baron Washington Algeria Dianne Feinstein Gatien Michael
"spies" Discussed on Skullduggery

Skullduggery

13:50 min | 1 year ago

"spies" Discussed on Skullduggery

"You're going to be revising updating your exhibit so thanks for allowing talk about that first of all I could not be more proud of our staff here for taking on a controversial issue. The old spy museum everybody I loved. Everybody loves the new spy museum more and I think that's fair but we built a museum purpose. Built here in l'enfant Plaza to tell more stories and we didn't shy away from a controversial issue. We understand that we are not the spy. Museum is not beholden into the intelligence community. We're not beholden to any political bodies. Were not beholden to international intelligence organizations. What we we WANNA do is get the facts right and tell the story appropriately? We made a decision not under pressure from any constituency. We made a decision to listen to all sides of the argument in. We're going to make some adjustments. Or what adjustments. Are you GonNa make that exhibit. I'll just talk about him. Broadly because we're we're still working through that but first of all in unequivocally in unfairly the exhibit keeps being called the torture exhibit. It is not the torture exhibit. It is about interrogation. And we're GONNA make that clear. We focused maybe a a little bit more than we should have on the coercive methods we want to talk about non-core of interrogation we talk about torture because torture is a part of the interrogation history throughout history right throughout intelligence history. So what we WANNA do is we WANNA make sure one. More time that we get everything right and it's been mischaracterized that there are factual errors. We found one factual era that we corrected one. What was that? I think it had to do with the time line on one of the enhanced interrogation stuff in we have addressed. That what we WANNA do is make sure that it's balanced and that were factually accurate. Do you accept the basic conclusion of the Senate report which was that the techniques used by the CIA. Ah were were amounted to torture. So then you're getting into my personal point of view and on this I. I haven't gone on record talking about my point of view you because he had an opportunity to do so. Well I think now waterboarding in particular is considered torture right. I accept that unequivocally so the CIA engaged in torture. No because at the time they engaged what they believed was legal and it was authorized by thank. Doj Memos and. Here's the other thing that we tried to do. Michael we wanted to make make sure we contextualized the story. It's going to be in the long haul. It's going to be an important footnote in history. It truly is but it. Komo interrogation is much more broader torture throughout history as much more broader the question of Algeria. What the Japanese did what the Germans did? It has to taken in context. You deal with do you deal with grave. We don't because again that was Abu Ghraib unequivocally that I can talk about from from a personal standpoint. I was at. US Central Command. I was chief of human intelligence. I saw all the reporting. We had to make sure that they were interrogation plans in that they were appropriate. We had to make sure U S servicemembers. Who did the bulk of interogations were doing those interrogation Gatien appropriately that was simply an unequivocally a failure of leadership at the time? Unequivocally and I've been to Abu Baron. There's no question Christian but that it's on a different scale of the context of the immediate aftermath of nine eleven when emotions were high. The Americans demanded action action. And you know what it was America's program it was not CIA's program. That is not a talking point. I absolutely believe that it was America's program we all owned it and since there were adjustments made I think the sissies work there the Sei's is work is absolutely crucial in a democracy. That's what we have. That's what we have our legislators for that said there is a whole other point of view right. There's it's the other side of the aisle that had a counter to that report. There's CIA's Rick Lama. What we are going to do going forward? It make sure that people have access to that at the spy fascinating point. You make calling of America's program and I want to just make sure I understand what you're saying. Is that in the weeks. The months the early period after the attacks the sense of anger and the sense of of a need to strike back was so strong among Americans that that this was a program that they would have supported or did support through their representatives. There was of course stories about people like Dianne Feinstein and others. who were briefed early on? Is that what you're saying because after all this was done in black sites it was done secretly very few Americans knew that waterboarding was taking place. So what exactly do you mean when you say. It was America's program. It was a program that was stood up in the immediate aftermath of nine eleven. I wouldn't there was anger but there was also ah a complete sense of uncertainty. I don't want to speak for you but I thought I knew a little bit about the business of intelligence and I was uncertain I was unsettled for a variety of reasons. We all were and I think there was a lot or coherence in those ideas in the aftermath of of nine eleven in the CIA the IRA did and implemented a program that they thought would counter terrorism. And get after those who who were going to do harm to the United States because we didn't know if there was going to be another attack and I think it's really important for people to come to the museum to to listen to see. Listen not to me. Listen to the people that implemented that programme their perspective because we've offered them an opportunity -tunities to tell their story one of the consequences of those practices enhanced interrogation techniques. waterboarding is that nineteen years later the perpetrators of the nine eleven attacks have yet to go on trial because they've been held in Guantanamo. All all these many years but efforts to bring them to trial have been repeatedly stymied by the fact of the treatment they had had experienced. And how much of that can be admitted into public evidence in a trial of them. I the fact that so many years later we have not been able to put college Mohammed and his confederates on trial is an appalling statement on its face about the military military justice system we created for this purpose. The agree I agree that Guantanamo and the justice system it has been completely we uneven and it's completely inadequate for a variety of reasons and had to do with evidence that had to do with this kind of judicial whole this space that it wasn't the United States but it was under control of of the United States. No precedent has shut down Gitmo and and President Obama wanted to shut down in that people in the United States fought hard in our legislators did to prevent anybody coming to the United States by the way You know a trump on the campaign trail said he wanted to send more detainees to get mo- run you were there for that first. Year was that actively disgust gust. And if it's so and if so why wasn't that route taken so I can only speak to buy focus the first year and GONETANI MO- wasn't a top priority for me because at the time we were still knee deep in a fight to take the physical caliphate away away from more and more isis detainees taken into custody were were captured and the question was. What are you GonNa do with them so well? We didn't take them to Guantanamo. Why not that's right? Because they were still many of them. Were be still being exploited for intelligence for with our Kurdish partners rain right. The Kurds took it upon themselves. This goes back to why I have a healthy respect for our our our occurred Allies because they held those detainees. I've talked to reporters that said. Hey they're even doing to this day. The Kurds are even doing rehabilitation. What we did do what I can say we did? And I every foreign partner that came to see me and we had amazing foreign partners in the counter-terrorism space. I talked to them about taking back. Their own detainees. Because it's not a United States problem it's a world problem and along with Ali Safari and others in this goes to your point is well. We signed a letter saying the world community. He needs to take back. Those detainees because the real real problem is we have seventy thousand some odd number of women that are radicalizing and camp in Syria along with children in. That's future problem in. The world has to get their arms around us. It is not just a United States problem and I told every foreign born partner that came to see me very diplomatically that they needed to take responsibility. So that's what. I focused on Chris. The Spy Museum of course worse chronicles the history of espionage but history as we all know sheds light on where. We're going right so I want to ask you a little bit about the future of of espionage as you see it I WANNA start with a story that a Yahoo News published just recently about how technological developments. You know big data biometric screening has made it much harder if not impossible in some ways for human spies to operate in the digital age talk about the challenges of human espionage going forward. And I think you've got some views on on on some of the ways to sort of mitigate those problems yes yes oh thank you for that question. I think it's an important one and and again I think that the spy museum contextualized his history contextualized his current events with intelligence history and with the artifacts. And as you walk through the museum you see all the artifacts of intelligence history and technology technology. I think in time is going to cause us to go back to use some of the techniques. The tactics tradecraft procedures that we used during during the Cold War. Go back to personal meetings Do you go to a meeting with the with the cell phone or not when it has everything about you in who are you anyway. I am Ver. This is what I tell everyone. I am very happy that I'm not a case officer now Because I grew up in a different era. The legs about how hard it is to recruit crude these days when young people all have social media footprint. And if you wipe those social media footprints the bad guys know that you've done that and become suspicious or conversely Salihi. What's also happened is very idea? I think the article gets out and I like the article. John McLaughlin wrote it as John. Reid like that and people reached out to me to ask me my my opinion. I will also say that. There's a democratization of spying in spy tools. What do I mean by that what I mean? And that's not my original. Original idea was from another piece. I read I agree what's happening. Social media has a double edge sword it also allows non sophisticated intelligence service service when this was the domain of the biggest most sophisticated intelligence services. Now there's this idea that more people have access to social media more people. Oh Control Online. More people can build a relationship with people online. There's greater vulnerabilities. It's a double edged sword at the same time. Any technology going to a meeting means all of that stuff has to have appropriate backstopping. That is a complex problem. And I don't know how. Oh it's GONNA be resolved other than going backwards to some extent going back to the bricks and sticks as they say some of the tools that are in the spy museum. UCF or going back to personal meetings with the appropriate technologies really really ensuring that drops brush. That's exactly thank. We're going back to those old school techniques of passing secrets or obtaining them rather than through the digital means what you're saying to some extent. I think that's got to happen right. Because the technology makes intelligence officers extremely vulnerable in their operating in that space base now and I have a Lotta respect for. They're doing it and I don't have the details on how they may be better for spy movies spy novels right. You know you get those great scenes and parks. Yes yes well. It's clear for those interested in this subject that the best place to come in Washington to learn about them is the Spy Museum Chris. Kosta thanks for joining us..

CIA United States Spy Museum America Guantanamo partner l'enfant Plaza Doj Senate Abu Ghraib Yahoo Abu Baron Washington Algeria Dianne Feinstein Gatien Michael
"spies" Discussed on Skullduggery

Skullduggery

11:09 min | 1 year ago

"spies" Discussed on Skullduggery

"No because at the time they engaged what they believed was legal and it was authorized by thank. Doj Memos and. Here's the other thing that we tried to do. Michael we wanted to make make sure we contextualized the story. It's going to be in the long haul. It's going to be an important footnote in history. It truly is but it. Komo interrogation is much more broader torture throughout history as much more broader the question of Algeria. What the Japanese did what the Germans did? It has to taken in context. You deal with do you deal with grave. We don't because again that was Abu Ghraib unequivocally that I can talk about from from a personal standpoint. I was at. US Central Command. I was chief of human intelligence. I saw all the reporting. We had to make sure that they were interrogation plans in that they were appropriate. We had to make sure U S servicemembers. Who did the bulk of interogations were doing those interrogation Gatien appropriately that was simply an unequivocally a failure of leadership at the time? Unequivocally and I've been to Abu Baron. There's no question Christian but that it's on a different scale of the context of the immediate aftermath of nine eleven when emotions were high. The Americans demanded action action. And you know what it was America's program it was not CIA's program. That is not a talking point. I absolutely believe that it was America's program we all owned it and since there were adjustments made I think the sissies work there the Sei's is work is absolutely crucial in a democracy. That's what we have. That's what we have our legislators for that said there is a whole other point of view right. There's it's the other side of the aisle that had a counter to that report. There's CIA's Rick Lama. What we are going to do going forward? It make sure that people have access to that at the spy fascinating point. You make calling of America's program and I want to just make sure I understand what you're saying. Is that in the weeks. The months the early period after the attacks the sense of anger and the sense of of a need to strike back was so strong among Americans that that this was a program that they would have supported or did support through their representatives. There was of course stories about people like Dianne Feinstein and others. who were briefed early on? Is that what you're saying because after all this was done in black sites it was done secretly very few Americans knew that waterboarding was taking place. So what exactly do you mean when you say. It was America's program. It was a program that was stood up in the immediate aftermath of nine eleven. I wouldn't there was anger but there was also ah a complete sense of uncertainty. I don't want to speak for you but I thought I knew a little bit about the business of intelligence and I was uncertain I was unsettled for a variety of reasons. We all were and I think there was a lot or coherence in those ideas in the aftermath of of nine eleven in the CIA the IRA did and implemented a program that they thought would counter terrorism. And get after those who who were going to do harm to the United States because we didn't know if there was going to be another attack and I think it's really important for people to come to the museum to to listen to see. Listen not to me. Listen to the people that implemented that programme their perspective because we've offered them an opportunity -tunities to tell their story one of the consequences of those practices enhanced interrogation techniques. waterboarding is that nineteen years later the perpetrators of the nine eleven attacks have yet to go on trial because they've been held in Guantanamo. All all these many years but efforts to bring them to trial have been repeatedly stymied by the fact of the treatment they had had experienced. And how much of that can be admitted into public evidence in a trial of them. I the fact that so many years later we have not been able to put college Mohammed and his confederates on trial is an appalling statement on its face about the military military justice system we created for this purpose. The agree I agree that Guantanamo and the justice system it has been completely we uneven and it's completely inadequate for a variety of reasons and had to do with evidence that had to do with this kind of judicial whole this space that it wasn't the United States but it was under control of of the United States. No precedent has shut down Gitmo and and President Obama wanted to shut down in that people in the United States fought hard in our legislators did to prevent anybody coming to the United States by the way You know a trump on the campaign trail said he wanted to send more detainees to get mo- run you were there for that first. Year was that actively disgust gust. And if it's so and if so why wasn't that route taken so I can only speak to buy focus the first year and GONETANI MO- wasn't a top priority for me because at the time we were still knee deep in a fight to take the physical caliphate away away from more and more isis detainees taken into custody were were captured and the question was. What are you GonNa do with them so well? We didn't take them to Guantanamo. Why not that's right? Because they were still many of them. Were be still being exploited for intelligence for with our Kurdish partners rain right. The Kurds took it upon themselves. This goes back to why I have a healthy respect for our our our occurred Allies because they held those detainees. I've talked to reporters that said. Hey they're even doing to this day. The Kurds are even doing rehabilitation. What we did do what I can say we did? And I every foreign partner that came to see me and we had amazing foreign partners in the counter-terrorism space. I talked to them about taking back. Their own detainees. Because it's not a United States problem it's a world problem and along with Ali Safari and others in this goes to your point is well. We signed a letter saying the world community. He needs to take back. Those detainees because the real real problem is we have seventy thousand some odd number of women that are radicalizing and camp in Syria along with children in. That's future problem in. The world has to get their arms around us. It is not just a United States problem and I told every foreign born partner that came to see me very diplomatically that they needed to take responsibility. So that's what. I focused on Chris. The Spy Museum of course worse chronicles the history of espionage but history as we all know sheds light on where. We're going right so I want to ask you a little bit about the future of of espionage as you see it I WANNA start with a story that a Yahoo News published just recently about how technological developments. You know big data biometric screening has made it much harder if not impossible in some ways for human spies to operate in the digital age talk about the challenges of human espionage going forward. And I think you've got some views on on on some of the ways to sort of mitigate those problems yes yes oh thank you for that question. I think it's an important one and and again I think that the spy museum contextualized his history contextualized his current events with intelligence history and with the artifacts. And as you walk through the museum you see all the artifacts of intelligence history and technology technology. I think in time is going to cause us to go back to use some of the techniques. The tactics tradecraft procedures that we used during during the Cold War. Go back to personal meetings Do you go to a meeting with the with the cell phone or not when it has everything about you in who are you anyway. I am Ver. This is what I tell everyone. I am very happy that I'm not a case officer now Because I grew up in a different era. The legs about how hard it is to recruit crude these days when young people all have social media footprint. And if you wipe those social media footprints the bad guys know that you've done that and become suspicious or conversely Salihi. What's also happened is very idea? I think the article gets out and I like the article. John McLaughlin wrote it as John. Reid like that and people reached out to me to ask me my my opinion. I will also say that. There's a democratization of spying in spy tools. What do I mean by that what I mean? And that's not my original. Original idea was from another piece. I read I agree what's happening. Social media has a double edge sword it also allows non sophisticated intelligence service service when this was the domain of the biggest most sophisticated intelligence services. Now there's this idea that more people have access to social media more people. Oh Control Online. More people can build a relationship with people online. There's greater vulnerabilities. It's a double edged sword at the same time. Any technology going to a meeting means all of that stuff has to have appropriate backstopping. That is a complex problem. And I don't know how. Oh it's GONNA be resolved other than going backwards to some extent going back to the bricks and sticks as they say some of the tools that are in the spy museum. UCF or going back to personal meetings with the appropriate technologies really really ensuring that drops brush. That's exactly thank. We're going back to those old school techniques of passing secrets or obtaining them rather than through the digital means what you're saying to some extent. I think that's got to happen right. Because the technology makes intelligence officers extremely vulnerable in their operating in that space base now and I have a Lotta respect for. They're doing it and I don't have the details on how they may be better for spy movies spy novels right. You know you get those great scenes and parks. Yes yes well. It's clear for those interested in this subject that the best place to come in Washington to learn about them is the Spy Museum Chris. Kosta thanks for joining us..

United States Spy Museum America CIA Guantanamo Doj Abu Ghraib partner Algeria Michael Abu Baron Yahoo Dianne Feinstein Gatien Washington Mohammed Kosta Rick Lama