20 Episode results for "Sonny"
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Crossover Week: Unsolved Murders (Sonny Liston Pt. 1)
"Hi It's Carter like you. We are deeply saddened by the unfortunate spread of covert nineteen because of this par- cast has decided to temporarily halt recording. This week. We feel that it is a necessary precaution to ensure the safety of our hosts staff and apologize for the inconvenience so to change things up a little. I'm going to play a couple of episodes from another show. I host called unsolved murders. Why you ask well because if you're a fan of the high profile stories told here in sports criminals think it'd be fascinated by the true tales investigated in unsolved murders. And here's a two parter. I think you'll enjoy former heavyweight champion. Sonny Liston died of supposed heroin overdose in Nineteen seventy-one but the mysterious circumstances surrounding his death. Raised more questions than answers. If you enjoy these episodes in WanNa hear more true cold cases follow unsolved murders on spotify new episodes premiere every Tuesday. Listen free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Due to the graphic nature of this murder case listener discretion is advised. This episode includes dramatization 's and discussions of murder and assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen baby. I'm home. It's Mel's in here. Did you leave something on the stove again? You got to stop doing that. My family missed you. I wish you would come with me. Hello what have you been getting up to while I was gone? I've been trying to get in touch with you for days. Actually don't tell me you know it upsets me to hear about your antics. Baby where are you? He must be down at that. Damn Tavern. You've been drinking too much lately sunny. You're a boxer. GotTa keep that Physique if you're GONNA win any fights. Oh my God on January Fifth Nineteen seventy-one Geraldine Liston. Returned to her home in Las Vegas. Her relationship with her husband had never been perfect but his drive and motivation had been infectious. Which is why even after she had not heard from him for several days. She never expected to find thirty nine year. Old Sonny Liston the former heavyweight champion of the world dead at the foot of their bed. This is unsolved murders true crime stories. Podcast original I'm your host. Corduroy and I'm your host Wendy Mackenzie every Tuesday. We dive into the world of a real unsolved murder. And we try to solve the case you can find episodes of unsolved murders and all other par- cast originals for free on spotify. Or Wherever. You listen to podcasts to stream unsolved murders for free on spotify. Just open the APP tap browse and type unsolved murders in the search bar it podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at par cast and on twitter at podcast network? And if you enjoyed today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you're listening. This is our first episode on Sonny. Liston the notorious heavyweight boxer who died mysteriously in his Las Vegas home in one thousand nine hundred seventy. This week will examine the events leading up to his suspicious death next week. We'll uncover who may have been responsible for it Charles Sonny Liston was born sometime between one thousand nine hundred twenty nine and nineteen thirty two. He believed his birthday was may eighth. Nineteen thirty two but he was never sure his mother Helen. Baskin was able to give him several possibilities for the day. He was born but could never nail down an exact date it times. She was even shaky on the year as well. Sunny wasn't given an easy start in life. He was the second youngest of his mother's twelve children and the twenty fourth of Twenty five kids for his dad. Toby listed who had children from a previous marriage. The family lived in a small shack outside of forrest city. Arkansas and with such a large family and few resources sunny was often cold and hungry. The hardships listens faced. Were only made worse by the fact that they were African American which meant that. They faced segregation prejudice an institutionalized racism from the time he was young. Sonny's father required. That sunny do his part by working on the family share crop but with most of his time spent doing physical labor. There was little to no time left for school in his childhood. He never learned to read or write. Sonny's father was abusive both physically and emotionally. He often beats sunny and other members of the family. Many people throughout Sonny's life would comment on the scars on his back left by his father's beatings by nineteen forty-three. Sonny's mother had had enough and left for Saint Louis to find factory work leaving sunny behind with his father. The boy was devastated. He felt completely abandoned and he felt very little loyalty to his father. So the following year in nineteen forty four. He left home to track down his mother in Saint Louis. It wasn't easy finding his mother but nothing in his life thus far had been easy. He searched high and low eventually. Reuniting with her after several nights sleeping at a police station when he was with his mother again sunny attempted to go to school for the first time but he was ruthlessly teased for his illiteracy and soon dropped out he attempted to find work but could only find sporadic or temporary. Gigs used to physical labor. He was strong and capable but he nevertheless struggled to land on his feet as a black man. In the South finding steady work would be an uphill battle perhaps out of necessity or maybe because he'd been hardened by the difficulties of his young life sunny soon turn into something more lucrative and a bit more reliable than hard labor crime. Right lady hand over the bag. No one gets hurt. Oh I oh God my purse. By nineteen fifty sunny had been charged with numerous muggings and had rob gas stations in diners. When he was finally caught red-handed during a robbery at unique cafe on market street he was sentenced to five years behind bars in the Missouri State Penitentiary. Sonny's prison papers reflect that. He gave his age at the time as twenty though. There was always a question as to whether that was accurate. By the time of his incarceration sunny had already seen a lot of hardship in his short life but compared to what he had left behind. He found prison to be relatively straightforward. It was the first time he could rely on three regular meals a day. But more importantly it gave sunny the opportunity to start boxing. He quickly showed extreme aptitude for the sport beating any and all inmates that challenged him in fact there was a running joke. That sunny would have to be matched against two or three people for anyone to have a fighting chance the chaplains at the Prison Reverend Edwards Latman and then Father Alice Stevens took notice of Sunny at first for his boxing prowess and then for the person they saw behind the gloves. A genuine and dedicated human being one. Whose talents could take him places. Father Stevens advocated heavily for sunny and was able to get him out on parole after serving. Only two years of his sentence. Sunny walked away a free man on October. Thirty first. Nineteen fifty two father. Stevens wanted to give sunny a better life into way to provide for himself so he connected sunny with a new family. A set of fight managers including John. Vitale an auditory is mobster. Who could hopefully get the kids? Boxing career off the ground. They started sunny fighting in the amateur boxing circuit pinning him against local boxers. Sonny's only job was to win which he did most of the time. He wasn't making much money yet. But that was okay. His fight managers had another way. Sunny could repay them all right. Good you like money yes sir. You like soft Furs Gin Martinis riding around in Nice cars. Well yes sir I do. We'll take care of that. All you gotTA DO IS KEEP BOXING. But Listen. Sometimes we ask a little favour. You do a little something for us. That sound good. I think so. We're kinda favor. John VI tally in the other managers wanted to use them for another purpose. Besides boxing intimidation when the mob needed to collect money or break some kneecaps they send Sonny Liston and with his towering figure and impressive physique he was quite effective but this new game didn't slow down a success. In the amateur boxing circuit most notably sunny were in the nineteen fifty three Chicago Golden Gloves Tournament and beat Nineteen fifty two Olympic heavyweight champion. Ed Sanders that same year. He competed in the United States National Championships in Boston. And in the international golden gloves tournament in Saint Louis. His coach Tony Anderson said that Sonny was the strongest fighter he had ever seen to sunny. The best fighter this side of the Mississippi. Now he'd magic loves with any CHAP on both sides of the river saluting now Sunny. We were thinking with all this winning. You've been doing it's about you. Swing those minutes with the pros. Sounds great sir? But I know I don't have the money for it. Listen to this guy talking about money. You just leave that to us. You know we have connections all you gotTa do is just keep on being a star now. Can we get another round of Barkeep in September nineteen fifty three? Sonny Liston went pro with financial backing from the mob. If his fight managers had felt at all like they were taking a risk on Sunny. Their gamble paid off. Sunny won seven consecutive fights over the next year the newly minted star was now bringing in real money and for the first time in his life he was able to not have the constant worry of money buzzing in the background for the first time too. He was known for something other than being a neighborhood menace. He was becoming famous as a boxer still. He may have been revered as an athlete but he wasn't necessarily seen by the white public in a favourable light. They saw him as a violent character. A racial stereotype. The press often referred to him as a beast. The fame made sure that Sony did less dirty work for the mob but he continued to get into trouble with the police. Perhaps it was his abusive upbringing. Or maybe it was simply the only life he knew or perhaps it was that anytime sunny ventured out of a quote unquote black area. He was routinely stopped by the police. He was understandably frustrated by this treatment and wasn't above letting the police no it. It became a self fueling cycle. Where racist cop stopped sunny because he was black which led to Sonny's angry violent outbursts which led to more stops by the police a particularly volatile altercation with an officer occurred in one thousand. Nine hundred eighty. Six sunny was sitting in a cab with a friend when he was stopped by policemen. Sunny claim that the COP berated him with racial slurs sunny responded by grabbing the COP's gun and hitting him over the head with it after lifting the COP in the air. He slammed him back down to the ground with such force that he broke the cops Lee. There's no denying Sonny's treatment of the cop was violent but the incident was described sensationally in the papers in a way that was much more sympathetic. A white point of view. The white public read an account of sunny being repeatedly hit over the head with the billy. Stick and being completely unfazed by it. This cemented the idea. The public's minds that Sonny was a dangerous monster a beast who could not be stopped as a result. The boxer was sentenced to nine months in a saint. Louis workhouse for the incident but soon after he was paroled early he was stopped by a cop again. This cop ended up stuffed into a trash can and sunny was given an ultimatum. He could either leave. Saint Louis or the police would see to it that he died there. They're going to keep stopping him every time they saw him on the street the cycle would continue until Sonny was dead. Sonny's fight managers immediately. Sold his contract to a new set of managers in Philadelphia for the first time since he ventured into town as a young boy looking for his mother. Sunny would be leaving Saint Louis but he wasn't moving to the straight narrow. His new managers had deep connections to organized crime including the infamous. Frankie Carbo a murder. Inc gunman turn boxing promoter. But it wasn't all boxing. Sunny was enjoying having money to spend and a set of well connected friends to enjoy spending it with it was while he was living in Philly that Sunni met and married his wife. Geraldine Chambers Sunny Loved Geraldine. But he was also enjoying his status as a famous boxer taking advantage of the access at granted him with women. Geraldine knew that. She never had one hundred percent of her husband's attention in their marriage but she also felt that it didn't matter as long as sunny loved her when he was with her. She was always a fiercely loyal and devoted wife to sunny. There you are. I must have dozed off while I was waiting for you. What time is it late? Where were you just out with Frankie in the boys I see? Well come to bed. I know you love me sunny. You just have a funny way of showing it. You're too good to me Geraldine. Sonny's unfaithfulness had some unintended consequences and it is believed that he may have fathered several children with other women. Legend has it that Geraldine and sunny were sitting in a diner when a waitress presented the couple with a child who was sonny son so then I said the Tony a suzy. Good to see you. I didn't know you had a baby. He's a very handsome little fellow. Yeah well this handsome little fellow is half sunny and we were wondering what his worse half was going to do about it. Sunny Geraldine adopted the little boy and raised him. His name was Daniel in Geraldine. Never thought of him any differently then if he were her own son. All the while sunny continued making strides in the boxing ring. His impressive size and incredibly large hands were forced to be reckoned with. He won match after match until he was the number one contender for the heavyweight champion of the world. The only problem was public. Perception of sunny still wasn't great. Large swaths of the country were overtly racist and the press often referred to him. In extremely offensive. Terms will not mention that listens connections to organized crime. We're not exactly a secret. These connections made sunny despised figure. Despite his success he was booed frequently when he won matches and other boxers. Were not too keen on fighting this controversial figure most notably the heavyweight champion of the world. Floyd Patterson Patterson's team refused to accept Sonny's challenge until he switched management effectively ending his relationship with the mob. Sunny did so in. May of nineteen sixty one tagging. George Cat says new manager. He hoped this would end the rumors of his connections to Frank. Palermo and Frankie. Carbo opening the door for him to challenge for the title unfortunately sunny dug himself in a deeper hole that he had little chance to get out of in late. Nineteen sixty one. Sunny was accused of posing as a cop in harassing a woman in a public park. Sunny denied the accusations. But it didn't matter. His boxing license was indefinitely suspended just as he was about to reach the pinnacle of his sporting career. It looked as though Sonny liston would never box again coming up. We'll look at Sonny's reaction to losing his license and the events that led up to his mysterious death and now back to the story by the early nineteen sixties. Sonny Liston was on the cusp of becoming the greatest boxer in the world. His large frame powerful hands and vicious left. Hook were obliterating opponent after opponent in the ring. Only one fighter stood in his way Floyd Patterson but his latest run in with the police. Sonny's boxing license was suspended. He was legally no longer allowed to fight. He was devastated with nothing. Left FOR HIM IN PHILADELPHIA. Sunny spent time in Denver. Later relocating there. It was here that he connected with a Jesuit priest named father. Edward Patrick Murphy Sunny. Welcome her father sunny. I believe that you are a good man. I don't think that you've done any of the things they say you have thank you. I appreciate that. There are bad people in this world people who only see black and white and can't see beyond who let their own prejudice. Get in the way of rational thinking of compassion. I want to help you sunny. You're not a monster. You're a good man. Three months later. Father Edward Helps Sunny get. The charges dropped and his boxing license reinstated. It was the second time a religious man had given him a lifeline and sunny grateful and more importantly Sonny Liston was back in business and back on the path to becoming the greatest heavyweight boxer in the world in September of nineteen sixty. Two sunny finally got his chance to fight. Floyd Patterson after nearly two years of anticipation. The fight brought to of the generations. Greatest into one ring but those that were expecting an epic and long match were greatly disappointed. Sonny liston knocked the heavyweight champion out and just over two minutes flat. He was now the world's greatest boxer but even this did little to help his reputation. He received little to no fanfare when he returned to Philadelphia and was booed when he knocked. Patterson out again in one thousand nine hundred sixty three bought he was still the champ and he remained the champ until a young up and comer a twenty two year old named cashes. Clay defeated him in February of nineteen sixty four but it was. Sony's second fight with Muhammad Ali. That went down as one of the most controversial moments in boxing history. Having lost to Ali wants Sonny was determined not to do it again. He trained aggressively and relentlessly for the rematch. Which was scheduled for November thirteenth? Nineteen Sixty Four. Sunny pushed his body to its limits preparing for this fight and was understandably frustrated when the match had to be rescheduled due to emergency hernia surgery for all the he honestly wasn't sure he could take his body to that extreme a second time sunny may have been as old as thirty four at this point. While was a young man of twenty. Two rumors began to swirl at this time of alcohol and Drug Abuse on Sundays part. We can't definitively confirm if this was true. But we do know that. He was putting himself through a lot at this time. Physically or the new date for Sonny's rematch with Ali was may twenty fifth. One thousand nine hundred sixty five. A huge crowd came to see which of the two star? Boxers would emerge victorious but the fight was much shorter than anyone could have anticipated in the first round. All through a light punch that inexplicably knock sunny to the ground from some angles. It didn't even look like the punch had connected with Sonny's body but he went down and stayed there. All the same people were shocked. Sunny a massive towering figure had essentially been knocked over with a feather even all e had trouble believing it and the winner is Mohammed Ali. Sonny Liston is down for the count one of the craziest damn things I've ever seen. Many people simply could not accept what had happened in thought that the only plausible explanation was that sonny had thrown the fight. Theories circulated as to why sunny may have done so Ali would say on. The matter was that Ali had thrown a punch that had injured his shoulder and taken him down but years later in an interview with sports illustrated he had a different take on the situation. And can you tell me about the infamous rematch with Muhammad Ali in sixty five? Sure listen man. That guy was crazy. I didn't want anything to do with them and the Muslims were coming up. Who needed that so I went down? I wasn't hit so you fixed the match. I'm not saying yes but I'm not saying no. You know what I'm saying. I I think I do the Muslim sunny referenced. In the article were the nation of Islam just months before the rematch members of the group had killed Malcolm X. on February twenty first nineteen sixty five Mohammed Ali was affiliated with the Nation of Islam and by some accounts sunny had been on the fence about doing the fight in the months before out of fear of being killed himself now. Many people thought it was possible that Sonny had thrown the match at the group's urging or more likely at their threatening. There's another piece of the story that lends credibility to this theory before the match sunny had moved to Vegas to train and it was here that he met and became pals with an infamous bookie named Ash resnick who many believe that resnick brokered a deal with the nation of Islam in which sunny would receive a portion of all of all these future earnings in exchange for throwing the match sunny did receive medical attention for the shoulder injury that knocked out. But it's easy to see how this offer might have been compelling whether losing the match was something sunny chose or not. Life was not the same after losing twice to Mohammed Ali if he had been treated ruthlessly by the press and the public before it was nothing compared to now he was a laughing stock and a joke. Sunny moved his family permanently to Las Vegas and began spending less time boxing and more time with his new pal ash resnick. According to the New York Post who liked to think of himself as Sonny's personal concierge. Sonny Liston my man. Listen whatever you need I got you. You need women women. You need a party. I'll take you to the best party ever seen get a little pick me up. I'm your Guy Pick me A- we talking drugs only the finest hour talk resnick had an extremely sorted reputation even by Vegas standards like many people in Sonny's life. He was closely tied to the mob and he opened the door to more serious drug activity. Sonny Sonny was no longer bringing in the cash. He wants did and immediately began to rack. Up Gambling debts upon setting foot in Vegas. He needed a new source of income with help from resnick. Sunday began selling drugs and according to some using them as well. By the year nineteen seventy sunny was living a fast life in Vegas. He was partying every night. Running a mid level drug operation and had a mistress on the side he was still doing some lower level fights but had branched out into acting and music playing roles in the films Harlow Moon Fire and head which starred the monkees additionally he appeared in an episode of the TV Show Love American Style and was in a commercial with Andy Warhol for braniff airlines on Christmas Eve. Nineteen Seventy Sonny's wife. Geraldine left Vegas to spend time with their family and Saint Louis. She took their adopted son. Daniel with her sunny stayed behind saying that he wanted to enjoy the Strip at holiday time each year. Las Vegas turned into a quiet company town over Christmas before becoming an all out hedonistic paradise over New Year's on Christmas Day nineteen seventy sunny. Met some friends that the town tavern showing up to white showgirls. One on each arm his friend. Clyde Watkins remember as noting that his friends sonny was in high spirits. Hey Sonny Merry Christmas you to Cleto. What are you doing later? Come into your house to eat. Oh please do you know nothing would make me and my wife happier? According to one source on Monday the twenty eighth sunny had breakfast at a local haunt with the Las Vegas boxing. Raff named Davey Pearl. The two men went over plans for an upcoming fight of Sonny's afterwards sunny hopped in his car and drove to Hollywood. He was in L. A. By that evening when he checked into the Biltmore Hotel and had dinner with his talent agent. Sunny. I see big things for you. Your House hold name now. Let's bring you into their houses every night on the TV. Like the sound of that. Yeah I'M GONNA need you to come out to L. A. More anything holding you back from that not a thing. Let's do according to the same source phone records from Sonny's car phone show. He made a few calls that day to or to Geraldine and one was to paramount studios where he had a meeting scheduled for the next day on. Tuesday December. Twenty ninth. Sonny liston drove onto the paramount lot and took a meeting with casting director. Jim Merrick in the days before the New Year Sonny was making a lot of plans for the future after the meeting. He checked out of his hotel and headed back home to Vegas. According to an article printed in the Las Vegas Sun one of the last people to see Sonny alive was a man named John Sleeper. Sunny had fared much better with the police in Las Vegas than he ever had in Denver Philly or Saint Louis in the large reason for that was that he allegedly had a man inside the Las Vegas Police Department looking out for him. Even when Sonny had been present during drug busts where everyone else went to jail sunny somehow walked away without a scratch or a charge pressed against him. That seems likely that the person who pulled strings for Sonny was John Sleeper but by December. Nineteen seventy sleeper. Had fallen out of favor with the LAS VEGAS PD and was getting demoted which was really just a prolonged firing by early nineteen seventy-one. John Sleeper would be out of the force and managing gas station. We can only assume that if John Sleeper stopped by Sonny Liston House in the final days of nineteen seventy. It was to tell Sonny that he'd no longer be able to protect him from the police. Come on John. Don't be like that. I need you. I don't like dealing with unfriendly police. You know it's not my choice sunny. I don't have the freedom I used to have there watching me. I won't be able to protect you if there's another drug raid. I'm not trying to ruin your night. I wanted to warn you but I've got a good thing going. Don't make me pull the plug. I'm not making you do anything I'm just saying you need to know that. I can't help you if they come for you. Be careful out there John Johnny. It's almost New Year's Eve. Let's have a drink stop worrying and talking about being careful and all this stuff okay. Hey let's get our coats and go out. Let me buy you a drink. At least I can do for. All you've done but sunny had a lot to worry about is. The year came to a close physically. His body was not what it once was. He was now around forty years old and had not been taking very good care of himself. He was having trouble whipping himself into shape like he used to perhaps because he was a few years older than the birth year he had always claimed or maybe because of alleged drug and alcohol use sunny had gambling debts and he also had a wife and child to support not to mention a mistress with an expensive drug habit and his involvement with the mob and selling drugs had made him plenty of enemies more than a few times. He escaped his friends of his gone to jail for crimes that he had participated in. They weren't happy to see him walk free as they paid the price but if Sonny had wanted to talk about his problems it wasn't with Geraldine she wasn't able to get a hold of him in the days leading up to New Year's eve and began to grow worried by January fifth nineteen seventy-one Sunny hadn't answered Geraldine calls for more than a week. It was not unusual for him to be. Mia for short periods of time. But this was enough to make her nervous. When Geraldine entered the Las Vegas Home? They shared there was immediately a bad smell. Geraldine thought it was food that had been left burning on the stove. Sunny was known to do that but when she went into their bedroom she was greeted with a horrible sight. Sunny was lying slumped onto the bed. Bloated he hadn't been answering Geraldine calls because he was dead coming up. We'll look at what may have happened to Sonny Liston and who was responsible now back to the story. Sonny Liston had been born circa nineteen thirty two to a poor family becoming a heavyweight boxing champion before easing into a Las Vegas Life of crime. Now in the early days of January nineteen seventy-one instead of partaking in any of the plans that he'd made for himself over the holidays he was dead and an investigation was underway to figure out how. And why from the start the efforts at investigating Sonny's death were bungled for one thing. Several hours passed between jail. Deans discovery of the body and her call to report the death to the police by some reports. Geraldine called Sunny's lawyer doctor immediately. We can't confirm whether or not this was the case but there's no question that she waited a considerable length of time to call the police. We don't know what Geraldine was doing in that time but given her history as a loyal and devoted wife it seems safe to assume that she was cleaning up anything. She would deemed unsavory like drugs or evidence of criminal activity. If Sonny's lawyer and doctor were there as well and we can only imagine that they were aiding in those efforts when Geraldine did finally call the police two to three hours after finding his body. The news spread quickly through. Sonny's Las Vegas community that Sonny Liston was dead shrubs. Nick and Clyde. Watkins heard about their friend's death. The immediately hopped into ashes car and drove over to. Sonny's house blowing red lights to get there as fast as they could. Friends of the deceased probably should not have been wandering around an active crime scene but they made themselves at home as the police went through the preliminary steps of conducting an investigation. So we can say with confidence that it was potentially contaminated crime scene. That police were investigating several hours. After Geraldine had found Sonny's body. This place is pretty tidy. Sarge did a whole sweep of the up and downstairs. It's clean. What about the balloon? Heroin what balloon of heroin on kitchen table. I'm pretty sure there wasn't how did that get there? I could've sworn it wasn't there when I checked this room ten minutes ago. You sure that well now. I don't know that's what I thought case might be closed because of this balloon. Given the way the police in Vegas operated in the late sixties and seventies. It's more than likely that the heroin found in. Sonny liston skin was planted for one thing. It doesn't quite track. The Geraldine would have scrubbed the rest of the house. Clean left a large amount of heroin on the dining room table for police to find if she was concerned about her husband's image. There's no way she would have made that oversight and to finding drugs planted or not meant that police could get a warrant to search for the lion's share of Sonny's drugs something they had been hoping to get their hands on for a while. Planting evidence to achieve a desired result. Was the General Protocol for Vegas Police. In the seventy S. No one would have batted an eye. There initial conclusion for the cause of Sonny's death was that it was either a drug overdose or suicide but they hadn't released an official cause yet when he was laid to rest on January ninth. Nine thousand nine hundred seventy one. Thousands of people came out to catch a glimpse of the heavyweight boxers funeral procession. The Church was packed with Vegas showgirls. Promoters bookies and mobsters Ella Fitzgerald Doris Day and Ed Sullivan. All had front row seats. The ink spots even performed special rendition of their Song Sunny. The turn out was an indication of how different the perception of sunny had become. Since his start as a boxer it was a far cry from the days in which sunny endured racial slurs and was considered a monster at the time of his death. He was a well loved hero. Geraldine STOIC in her role of wife. During Sonny's life was weathered and frail. At his funeral. She approached his casket which lay open at the front of the room. Sonny Sonny they're they're Geraldine. Why don't we go sit down or get you some tea? No I need to see him. I need to know know what Geraldine Sunny. Happen to you sunny. Can you tell me what happened to you? Do Oh dear. Come on now. Geraldine Geraldine had voiced. A thought several had begun to express. Sonny's death was undeniably strange. It came out of nowhere. Suicide seemed unlikely as he was making plans for his future and noted by all around him to be in good spirits. The overdose theory seem suspicious as well as the only drugs that had been found in the house after his death might well have been planted. There seemed to be a very real possibility that Sonny's death occurred via unnatural circumstances bought on January nineteenth nineteen seventy-one. The corner published his report. It is my conclusion from my findings. That Sonny Liston died of natural causes. A poor supply of oxygen to the heart led to congestive heart failure. Something perfectly reasonable for a man of his age. I also found traces of morphine and coding in his system. But not enough to have killed a man of his size thus they have no importance in determining the cause of his death. Police quickly wrapped up their investigation concluding that there was no foul play involved in. Sonny's death they issued a statement saying much and that because he was a known heroin addict his death was likely the unfortunate result of an overdose. But many of Sonny's friends had a problem with this. They claimed vehemently that Sonny was afraid of. Needles and this claim was substantiated. Not only by one or two people. But by a whole slew of the late boxers acquaintances. It was confirmed by his dentist. Who had trouble doing dental work on sunny because the boxer was too squeamish for administering anesthesia? It was confirmed by Sonny's friend. Dave Pearl the same Davey Pearl. He'd had breakfast with shortly before his death who knew him intimately. It was also confirmed by father. Edward Patrick Murphy. Who had known sunny for a good portion of his life and had performed his funeral service. But it was most tangibly confirmed by Sonny's former trainer Willie Reddish who said that Sonny had actually cancelled a planned tour of Africa to avoid getting the necessary. Vaccinations if Sonny was afraid of needles heroin would have been tough drug of choice for him. There are other ways of taking heroin. But in order for a dose to become lethal it would generally have to be taken intravenously. Sonny's friends were not convinced that sunny died of a heroin overdose and they certainly did not buy that. His death was from natural causes and they had good cause to think so. If sunny wasn't injecting heroin into his veins that rules out the possibility that his death was an overdose. Which meant that someone in Las Vegas new something? They weren't sharing something that suggested that Sonny liston death was really a murder. Thanks again for tuning in to the soft motors. We'll be back next week with our second episode on the mysterious death. Sonny Liston you can find all episodes of unsolved murders and all other podcast originals for free on spotify only to spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like unsolved murders for free from your phone? Desktop smart speaker to stream unsolved murders on spotify just open the APP tap browse type unsolved murders into the search bar and for more information on Sonny Liston death amongst the many sources we used. We found the murder of Sonny Liston. Las Vegas heroin and heavyweights by Sean. Astle particularly helpful. Several of you have asked how to help us if you enjoy the show. The best way to help us to leave a five star review in. Don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at par cast in twitter at Park cast network. We'll see next time if we lived till next time. Unsolved murders true crime stories was created by Max Cutler end is a podcast studios original executive producers include maximum Ron Cutler sound design by Michael Listener with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carleen Madden Freddie back. Leeann Joel Stein. This episode of unsolved murders was written by Aku John with writing assistance by Maggie admire the amazing cast of voice. Actors includes Mike Kaposi Susannah Corean sky. King Harris Markson injections rough it stars winning McKinsey and Carter Roy.
Hells Angel Pt. 1: Sonny Barger
"Hi guys before we get started. I have an exciting announcement to share. I want to introduce you to Alistair. He'll be taking over for Howell as my co host. Hi listeners I host a few other shows power costs like cornutus villains and Doug Tales. How will will be missed? But I'm excited to get started here. Let's get into this week's episode. Due to the graphic nature of this kingpins crimes listener discretion is advised this episode includes discussions of drug use sexual assault and violence that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen on a typical weekend nights in Oakland. Nine hundred and sixty five. Sonny Barger had just received a call. One of his fellow hells angels was in trouble at a local bar. Sunny arrived to survey the scene at the four hundred club. He soon spotted the angel in his girlfriend being hassled by half a dozen guys from the local chrome shop. The ringleader had had just enough beers to be brave enough to trash. Talk the toughest guys in Oakland Sunny stocked over cool and collected to tell his brother that it was time to go and for good measure. He stuck twenty-five automatic in the mouth of the ringleader. Just to let him know what would happen if he didn't stop running his mouth. Shut him up sunny and the angel left but the Gulf remained doubled back inside to retrieve her through the window. Sunny spotted the ringleader. Giving her trouble he shook his head big mistake he'd already been warned once. Sunny stormed back in walked up to the guy and hits him on the side of the head with his twenty-five but the gun accidentally went off grazing. The man's skull sunny chuckled to himself. He'd been trying not to hurt the poor idiot but fate at clearly intervened so sunny grant this poor bleeding. Drunken mess bent him over the pool table and shot him again the lesson. Don't mess with a hells angel. Welcome to kingpins apar- Original I'm Alastair murden and I'm Kate Leonard. Every Friday. We journey inside the ranks of Organized Crime Rings From Street gangs to mafiosos to understand how a kingpin or Queen Pin Rises to the top of the underworld and why they full as we follow the lives of infamous crime bosses. We'll explore how money and power change them and how it changed the community around them. You can find episodes of kingpins and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream kingpins for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type kingpins in the search bar at podcast. We are grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter podcast network this week with telling the story of Sonny Banga Legendary President of the Oakland Biker? Gang the hell's angels this week. We'll be exploring his club's rise to national infamy alongside the counterculture movements of the nineteen sixties. Next week we'll see how drugs and crime changed the face of the club forever in Nineteen Sixty three twenty five year old. Sonny Bono was president of the Oakland. Chapter of the hells angels. This meant he sat at the top of the burgeoning empire of outlaw motorcycle clubs known for drinking fighting and dealing drugs. Many anti-establishment organizations like these actually rose to prominence after world. War Two military veterans. Who had trouble fitting back into the square world of the nineteen fifties needed somewhere to go and shoot the breeze? Hollywood saw the appeal to the Marlon Brando movie. The Wild One introduced audiences across America to the world of leather jacket wearing motorcycle. Gangs causing mayhem. Wherever they went. But in the summer of nineteen sixty three sunny bargar had a bigger concern establishing his Oakland Charter as the dominant. Hells Angel Club even more powerful than the Founding San Bernardino Chapter. He also wanted to unite with other outlaw motorcycle clubs around the State. Sure they spent a fair amount of time beating each other up and jockeying for territory but they could put their beef aside to unite against a common foe. The cops so sunny bargar had an idea that would eventually become a hells angels tradition the Labor Day. Weekend RUN OUTLAW. Motorcycle clubs from all over the state would unite in Porterville California a medium sized town halfway between Fresno and Bakersfield there was no Setai Tin Ary. Just a plan to drink smoke weed and get up to whatever. Mischief found them. Sunny Bargar led his Oakland. Hells angels into Porterville to rendezvous with four other leading clubs the stray Satan's the galloping goose's the Coleman sheriffs and the cavaliers in all there were about two hundred bikers invading a town of about nine thousand people. At first everything went according to plan with bikers from different clubs bonding over drugs and women then an Oakland Angel Named Charlie. Magoo was having a drink in a bar minding his own business when an old townie through a beer in his face as soon as Magoo leapt to his feet. The old townie realized he'd made a grave error. There was no way he could take this guy in a fight. The townie bumbled an apology but it was too little too late. Magoo punched him in the face. The old man stumbled so Magoo punched him a second time. Then a third. The old man collapsed on the floor. Knock out but instead of settling things the townie went home grabbed. A gun came back and pointed it at Magoo. This was his town. These angels needed to go Vista Magoo had backup a group of fellow. Angels grabbed townies gun and turned it back around on him. They all took turns beating him until he had to be sent to the hospital. Meanwhile sunny was presiding over a Bachan. All that had taken over the Porterville main drag motorcycles were racing each other down the street the bikers girlfriends and female hangers on. Were having wet. T shirt contests. Everyone was drunk high or both. The angels stopped any vehicles passing through town and forced open. Their car does if they were young women in the car. They attempted to pull them out so they could join the party whether they wanted to on not not. Everyone was thrilled namely the Porterville. Chief of police. He worried he was losing control of the situation so he called out to other counties for backup by nine thirty PM over two hundred and fifty cops rolled into downtown to stop the madness. Their first move was to set up a blockade hoping to direct the bikers. Down One road out of town once was set the chief got on the Bullhorn and announce the bike has had five minutes to clear out. Meanwhile fire trucks spreads soapy water down the main streets making it impossible to race they turn their hoses on bikers. Knocking them off their harleys. Local teens even got into the action climbing to the tops of buildings and throwing bricks down onto the street faced with an army of guns hoses and bricks. The bikers had no choice but to leave town. Sunny led his bikers to the parking lot of Sports Center. A few miles outside of town to assess the situation as they counted their ranks. They realized they were missing for members who had been knocked off their bikes and arrested. Some of the other clubs wanted to give up and peel out. They trusted that lost members to bail themselves out of jail and find their way home but sunny refused to leave without all of his Oakland. Hells Angels Brothers. So at two thirty. Am they turned their bikes around and headed? Back to PORTERVILLE SEVILLE COPS had lined up squad cars to block the bridge leading into town and they were prepared to wait as long as it took for the hells angels to leave town for Good. Sunny wasn't intimidated. By the show of force. He ordered his bikers to line up in a counter blockade across the other half of the bridge. If the cops wouldn't let people into town. Then the hells angels wouldn't let anyone leave either. It was a standoff. Eventually a highway patrol officer approached sunny to try and broker peace sunny told the officer he just wanted his men back and would gladly pay the twenty five dollars for their bail. The officer took them to the portable chief of police. But the chief didn't think twenty five dollars was enough his counter-offer fifty thousand dollars. Sunny exploded in anger. He was trying to play by the rules. And these cops were trying to take advantage of him. Sensing a confrontation. The highway patrol officer scrambled to get the chief to agree to a low a bail sunny and the chief agreed to fifty dollars. And the Hells Angels. Pass the hat to raise the money. It seemed like a fair resolution. Yet by the time sunny and the bikers finally left town. They found another row of cops waiting for them. Ready to pull over any angel. Whose bike wasn't up to code and as a group devoted to customizing their rides. This was damn near all of them. This was the last Straw for Sonny. They were done being stopped by the cops. He ordered his men to outrun the police and they did in just one night sonny. Berger proved himself the undisputed leader of the hells angels and the baddest of all the outlaw bikers in California. Not Bad for a poor kid from Oakland Sunny bunker was born Ralph Barger junior on October Eighth. Nineteen thirty eight. He was named after his father. Ralph Baga senior who worked laying down pavement for highway ninety nine in California's Central Valley Sunny with later. Ruled that very road as a hells angel. Sonny's mother Catherine Carmelo. Bhargava would take sunny and her daughter Shirley on the trailways bus to visit their dad at his different job sites until she fell in love with the open road to just in the wrong way. When Sonny was only four months old she ran off with the trailways bus driver leaving her kids with a babysitter in Modesto the babysitter. Eventually call the COPS in. What would be the first of many encounters with the police for baby sunny? The police alerted his father. Who picked up his kids and headed to his mother's house in Oakland. No a single dad. Ralphs senior worked hard and drank hard. Sonny was mostly left. Fend for himself when they did spend time together. It was mostly an Oakland vase with sunny. Stealing pretzels and hard boiled eggs for snacks. School was no safe haven either. He was kicked out of fifth grade for attacking his teacher and later suspended for smashing another student's leg with a baseball bat. Sonny's first taste of freedom was when he was thirteen and scraped together. Twenty dollars to buy a little motorized scooter. It had tiny wheels and a tin frame. That didn't matter. The bike could get all the way up to forty miles per hour. That freedom meant the streets of Oakland. Were his but when Sonny was sixteen his dad decided to move into a hotel rather than keep up a house left with no place to live. Sunny decided to forge a birth certificate and join the army. Even though sunny rebelled against authority in school he loved it in the army there. The rules made sense. They taught him how to fight and survive. Plus it was built in family. He was sent to Honolulu to train as a machine gunner but after fourteen months the army discovered he was underage and kicked him out. Luckily he was honorably discharged which meant he was undrivable. By the time the Vietnam War came around back in Oakland. He moved in with his sister. Shirley and worked a series of odd jobs but they all lacked purpose. Nothing held his interest until nineteen fifty six when he bought his first used. Harley for one hundred twenty five dollars sunny could have spent every day riding his bike around Oakland with his friends. One of them nicknamed boots wore a military style patch with a skull wearing an aviator helmets and wings embroidered under the image. Where the words hells angels. It looked cool all right but neither he nor sunny had any idea what it meant. They'd find out soon on one fateful ride through southern California. Their bikes broke down. A bike named Vic bettencourt came to their aid on the side of the road and he just so happened to be wearing the same patch as boots. It turned out that boots patch wasn't just old military garb. It was an official motorcycle club with branches in Fresno San Bernardino and San Francisco. Vic had every right to beat up boots and sunny on the spot for wearing that patch they hadn't earned its merits but he took pity on the kids and instead asked them if they wanted to form a real club. This was the kind of family and purpose. Sunny had been craving since he was kicked out of the army and on the side of that highway in nineteen fifty seven. The Oakland Hells Angels were born. He may have accidentally stumbled into it but Sunny. Baga had finally found a family one that would be with him for better or worse for the rest of his life up next. We'll take a look at the hells angels turbulent rise to infamy including the club's early forays into drugs podcast listeners. We realized that there are a lot of cash shows to choose from each day and sometimes not enough time to sort through them. All in our new feed park cast daily we filter through all of your favorite podcast series to highlight the most timely and relevant episode premiering. Each day every Monday through Friday. Discover a new and captivating episode curated specifically for you. That's one new episode from our slate of content handpicked with you in mind. Time is precious. And we've got you covered. Follow Park has daily free on spotify. Or wherever? You get your podcasts. You can check out. Moorpark has shows in a full library of episodes on spotify by searching for par cast in the spotify search bar or by going to spotify dot com slash podcast. Now back to the story Sonny. Berger was just a run of the mill delinquent until nineteen fifty seven when he became a founding member of the Oakland Charter of the Hells Angels Motorcycle Club. The hells angels might have been a bunch of outlaws and rebels but most of them were former military and the eighteen year olds. Sunny made sure. They ran their club with strict. Rules and expectations meetings had parliamentary structure. The minutes of the previous meeting were read first. Then twenty five cent weekly dues were collected in the early years. The Oakland Hells Angels. Had they meetings in the basement of the house of a member named junior or rather his parents house. Juniors parents would sometimes come downstairs to say hello to the boys after about a year. They rented a clubhouse nicknamed the snake-pit it was a big Victorian House around the corner from their favorite bar. Anyone was welcome to crash there. After a childhood of instability that clubhouse meant that Sunny Banga would never be homeless again. The hells angels might have had a reputation for lawlessness. But as club president sunny had to follow a long list of rules set by the San Bernardino Charter as well as make some of his own. There were a lot of regulations. The club members road in strict formation with sunny the president leading the front of the pack the Vice President Road Front right and was in charge of carrying bail money for when they were inevitably pulled over at the height of their power. The Oakland pack could span half a mile long. They also had rules governing behavior. There was a five dollar fine for fighting with another member. A two dollar fine for missing a meeting and a small charge for swearing. Weapons could only be shot between. Oh six hundred and sixteen hundred hours and members were prohibited from messing around with another member's wife or girlfriend drugs were also a prevalence parts of the angels lifestyle and many of them upon tyne dealers. One of the most important rules was no drug burns. Meaning if you promise to make a drug deal you had to go through with it. They may have been criminals but at least they were honest ones joining the angels seem to be a sacred process shrouded in Ruma and mystery recruits. Were mostly friends or friends of friends. They didn't trust outside us. By some accounts. New members had to bring a woman or girl known as a sheep. Who's willing to have sex with every member of the club by other accounts membership allegedly required killing someone on behalf of the club. Rooms aside joining the hells angels was quite a saga in the first stage. Interested new members who were known as hang arounds would spend time in the clubhouse volunteering for miscellaneous grunt work. If they were game they moved to the second stage of recruitment now known as a prospect they spent a year setting up meetings and cleaning up after plus they had to be available twenty four seven for whatever tasks member needed doing after serving their year. Prospects were put up for a vote by the full membership but it had to be unanimous vote and the prospect was out once they lost that. Vote a new member would get their full hell's Angel Regalia including the patch with the wings skull of death some hells angels wore a one percent patch symbolizing that they were in the one percent of motorcycle riders. Who were part of outlaw motorcycle gangs? This was a statistic from the American Motorcycle. Association who wanted to differentiate between responsible motorcycle riders and organized criminals. Like the angels still others chose to accessorize with swastikas and Nazi Regalia to show. How Little Lake head for social norms after sunny bargains leadership in the nineteen sixty three Labor Day rally in Porterville hells angels across the State started looking to his Oakland Charter for leadership. He appeared to hold a lot of power. Though at that time. Sonny's angels were little more than low rent thugs. They were interested in partying women drinking beer and smoking weed. We made some money by stealing motorcycles and parts or by dealing pot but in these early days hells angels were as much drug users as drug dealers. Most of the members had other legal jobs in order to get by sunny himself had day jobs. Other angels were truck drivers and laborers just like Sonny's father had been but while they may not have been criminal masterminds. They were quickly gaining a reputation as quick tempered and dangerous on April second. Nineteen sixty four eight angels broke into a home in Oakland. A man and woman were inside along with three children. They forced the man outside and then raped the woman at gunpoint while her children watched hours later she was paid a visit by female friends of the angels. Who told her that if she talked to the police they'd cut her in the face. The woman refused to testify and the charges were dropped. This was just one of the many instances of violence that the angels were caught up in during the early nineteen sixties. The Oakland police grew frustrated that they couldn't make any serious charges. Stick so they doubled down on arresting hells angels for possession of marijuana and other drugs. That's exactly how sunny bogus spent the summer of nineteen sixty four behind because in the center Rita County Jail. But what happened while he was away? Would mark the hells angels and the Oakland Charter forever. Labor Day Weekend. Nineteen sixty four just one year after the eventful Porterville. Rally the Oakland Hells Angels. Were ramping up for the second installment of this now annual tradition. This year's destination was the small town of seaside on California's Monterey Peninsula and in addition to the usual dancing debauchery. The angels had emission. They needed to raise some money to ship the body of one of their fallen brothers back east for a proper funeral. If everyone in attendance chipped in a buck or two they should be able to cover it so the call went out to all the outlaw motorcycle gangs in California. Bring your money and come ready to party. The angels had learned their lesson from Porterville though through friendly connections Monterey. They reached a truce with the local police ahead of time. If the angels promise not to cause too much trouble the cops would leave them alone. The bikers first stop was a local bar called Knicks in downtown Monterrey. Cops were stationed outside trying to keep the locals out and avoid trouble but plenty of townspeople found their way inside wanting to catch a glimpse of the angels in person. That's evening the Ponzi moved to the beach. An empty stretch of sand between Monterey Bay and an old army training center called Ford ordered. The police agreed to let them do as they please on this remote strip but still posted God's to keep lookout for a few hours. Everything seemed fine then as evening hit a few teenage boys came into. The police station with worried looks on their faces. They said the angels had run off with their girlfriends. Some deputies were dispatched to the beach and found two young girls. Fourteen and fifteen years old sopping and terrified one was wearing justice shirt. The other was completely naked. The deputy took the girl away to safety leaving the angels to wonder what lay in store for them the next morning the beach was swarmed with squad cars and local and national news media. The police officers separated the hells angels from their friends girlfriends and locals who had willingly joined in the all night rage then. The teenage goes were brought back out and asked to identify the men who had assaulted them. For Hell's angels were arrested and charged with gang rape. The arrests made national news and from behind his cell and county lockup Sonny. Barger knew that he'd have a lot to deal with when he got out but just a few weeks later. The charges against all four hells angels members would dropped for lack of evidence while the angels celebrated their good fortune. Lawmakers and California decided they'd had enough of the menace of outlaw biker. Gangs Attorney General. Thomas Lynch was commissioned to write a report cataloguing the hells angels as a public threat by the time. The report was made public in March. Nineteen sixty five sunny. Baga was already back out of prison leading the charge to clean up the Oakland chapter. Their report was devastating. Lynch claimed the club had four hundred and fifty members in the state though. The real number was probably closer to one hundred. The report also attributed eight Hundred Seventy four felony arrests three hundred convictions and over. One Thousand Misdemeanors to the group finally jabbed that quote both club members and female associates seem badly in need of a bath. The government's numbers were overblown. There were barely two hundred. Hells Angels in California total. Plus the hells angels. Were the first to be blamed for all crimes. Whether they were responsible will not. They just had a bad reputation but the public had had enough of the biker menace and police departments around the State got the green light to stop hassle and arrest any biker. They saw no matter the circumstances for a few months the government strategies worked members. Quit or resigned rather than deal with perpetual harassment by law enforcement. The Sacramento chapter was forced to dissolve altogether due to lower membership. Just a few months after the report became public. There were only about eighty five. Hells angels in the entire state. Then just when things were at their bleakest. The angels found that unlikely saviours up next sunny bargar brings his angels to meet Ken. Casey and his Merry Pranksters now back to the story. During the spring of nineteen sixty five the hells angels were at their most famous albeit least powerful their ringmaster sonny barger could barely keep the clubs together amidst rising police pressure and public animosity. But the outlaw motorcycle clubs went the only rebels and rabble rouses who were making their mark in the nineteen sixties hippies and free spirits of all kinds were making their home in the Golden State. The hells angels. Didn't have much use for hippies. Aside from selling them the occasional bags of weed and Haight Ashbury and Golden Gate Park but one unlikely meeting would change the fate of Sonny Barger and his angels forever. Ken Keesey was a respected author. Most famous writing the novel. One flew over the CUCKOO's nest which had been published a wide acclaim in Nineteen Sixty two during the late fifties and early sixties. He had also participated in government studies about hallucinogenic drugs including mescaline and LSD following. The success of his novel. Keesey moved to a large house in the woods of La Honda California. It was a gathering place for writers and artists and his own band of followers. Who would come to be known as the Merry Pranksters there they would dance? Drink do acid and have sex kind of like a hells angels party. Except without the fistfights the hells angels knew about the Merry Pranksters but never had much use for them. The pranksters where the peace and love type while the angels were mostly military veterans who solve problems with punches. But in one thousand nine hundred. Sixty five the hells angels had granted. Gonzo journalist Hunter S Thompson access to their club. And at the same time writer Tom Wolfe was embedded with merry pranksters documenting. Their lifestyle the to rights is thought that sunny and Keesey should get to know one another and despite that different ideologies the two bonded they both loved drugs after all and Keesey respected the hells angels as fellow counterculture icons who did what they wanted. Damn the authorities or the COPS TO SUNNY SURPRISE. The respect was mutual. He found out that. Keesey was a champion wrestler and like Sonny had served time for marijuana possession. They had a lot in common. So cheesy invites at the hells angels for a visit on Saturday August. Seventh nineteen sixty five. The Oakland hells angels roared in formation through the mountain roads outside of La Honda a tiny town in the Santa Cruz. Mountains south of San Francisco as always. The police knew they were coming. They tailed the bikers the last few miles to Casey's ranch lights and sirens blazing the angels outraced the cops through the narrow mountain roads. The Merry Pranksters could hear them coming. As soon as the bikers road through the gates the Pranksters Whip Them. Shut and the cops were left outside lights still flashing as sunny and the Angels. Got Off their bikes. They marveled at the hippie wonderland they had stumbled into barefoot. Pranksters in varying states of undress wandered the property in drugged Hayes. Some covered in day GLO paint and the poet Allen Ginsberg held court Baga had been introduced to acid earlier that year and often did it with his wife for the rest of the angels though this would be their first acid trip little. Did they know that this drug would soon turn their motorcycle? Gang into some of the biggest drug dealers in the country. The party lasted for an entire weekend. And it didn't end there. The angels became regular fixtures. Around the merry prankster compound. The writer Tom. Wolfe called them. Unintellectual tourist attraction radicals and free spirits from Berkeley and San Francisco stopped by to see the leather clad bikers making nice with hippies for two solid months the hells angels and Pranksters got along swimmingly. It almost seemed too good to be true the bikers and the hippies choosing peace and love or other sex and drugs over violence that then things took a turn for the unexpected. The Bay area was the epicenter of the anti-vietnam Protest Movement on October sixteenth. Nineteen sixty five. An organization called the Vietnam Day Committee planned a stop. The draft March from the UC Berkeley campus to the Oakland Army terminal. It was one of over one hundred marches planned for that day across the United States. When the hells angels got wind of the plans. They weren't happy. Ninety percent of the hells angels including Sunny. Bargar were veterans. Their allegiance to the club was part and parcel of their allegiance to the USA. Plus they didn't like the idea of a bunch of liberal Berkeley College kids invading their working class town even though they had been dropping acid with Mary. Prankster's all summer. They drew a distinction between those hippies and the anti war radicals in Burghley. One group just wanted to do drugs and have a good time. The other was agitating against the government as the protesters marched through the streets of Berkeley. A squad of four hundred Oakland cops with riot sticks. Were manning a barricade to prevent them from entering the city limits and back at Hell's angels headquarters. Sonny Bono was rallying his own troops to protect this city from anti American invaders while the fifteen thousand protesters approached the Oakland cops from one side sunny and several angels wound their way to the front on foot. The protesters notice them and immediately cheered thinking. These outlaws were there to support them standing up to the man. Finally the angels push their way to the front of the crowd. Where MARCH ORGANIZER JERRY? Rubin was giving a speech from the top of a sound truck. Sunny leapt up onto the soundtrack and lunged. For Ruben the rest of the angels also went on attack swinging at protesters and yelling. Things like traitors communists and America. First this tips the protests into a full fledged riot. Police didn't know who to restrain. The hells angels. Were for the first time on the same side as the cops but they were also the first people who threw punches in the end six angels were arrested one of them for breaking the leg of a police officer after the October Sixteenth March. The relationship. Between the hell's angels and the Bay area counterculture movement was never the same from then on any planned march or protest also included a restraining order against sunny. And the angels. The club was on the outs with the hippies and radicals but in an unexpected twist. They were now surprisingly popular with the COPS and Middle America. After years of the public fearing that the angels only appeared to rape and pillage. They applauded the bikers for what they saw as their patriotic defense of America. The hippies refused to give up on the angels so easily. They had another big March scheduled for November twentieth. Nineteen sixty five and they wanted to avoid a repeat of the October roll. The Vietnam Day committee organizers invited Sunny Bargar to a meeting with students political groups and labor unions in the cafeteria of San Jose State University. The organizers explained their politics and beliefs sunny was unmoved but there was one hippy who sunny bog. Us still respected. Ken Casey so when Keesey against the angels leadership for a sit down with him poet Allen Ginsberg and some LSD. Sunny was willing to come to the table. Sunny loved the drugs but even after the meeting he still wasn't willing to broker the kind of peace deal that Ginsberg and Keesey wanted Ginsberg's approach which included Tibetian prayer bells and Buddhist chance. Probably didn't help either. As the march approached it was still unclear whose side the angels were on then without warning the day before the March Sonny Berger issued a public statement in the interest of public safety sunny announced that the hells angels would stay away all future. Vietnam war protests. This was far from the total victory for the hippies sunny was clear that the hells angels were standing down because they didn't want to risk producing public sympathy for the protesters. If they were the victims of violence he also volunteered. The angels for service in the Army but most people knew this was an empty promise. Since most of the hells angels had either being kicked out of the military or were felons. After his club was practically wiped off the map a few years earlier sunny bargar had managed a public relations feet of epic proportions by attacking antiwar protesters. He restored his club's. Good name with the COPS and Middle America and by making peace with the hippies. He preserved his access to the burgeoning market for LSD. Sunny had never really wanted to use the hells angels to make a political statement. Now he could focus on what they were. Good at selling drugs by November of nineteen. Sixty five the hells angels were in full control of the distribution of LSD in the hippie center of Haight Ashbury. Moving fifty thousand hits per week and the infamous summer of Love was still two years away by the Second. Half of the nineteen sixties that recreational drug use had completely transformed into a full blown criminal empire? Thanks again for listening kingpins. Next week Sunny Bargar and his hells angels become a drug dealing incite violence at the ALTIMA. Free Concert and get slapped with a racketeering indictment you can find more episodes of kingpins and all other parkas originals for free on spotify. Not only does spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like kingpins for free from your phone? Desktop or smart speaker to stream kingpins on spotify. Just open the APP and type kingpins in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at par cast and twitter at Parkas network. We'll see you next time. Kingpins was created by Max Cutler and is a Parker studios original executive producers include Maxon Ron Cutler sound designed by Trent Williamson with production assistance. By Ron Shapiro Kaldi Madden Travis. Clark and Paul Molitor. This episode of kingpins was written by Margaret Lebron with writing assistance by cates gala and stars. Kate Leonard and Alliston Myrddin.
Crossover Week: Unsolved Murders (Sonny Liston Pt. 2)
"Due to the graphic nature of this murder case listener discretion is advised. This episode includes physicians and discussions of murder and assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. Ladies and gentlemen. It's the moment you all been waiting for the for the heavyweight championship title rematch. Show the century reigning champion Muhammad Ali versus the Challenger and former heavyweight champ sonny listed and the fight has begun the two champions are circling each other keeping their distance sizing up their opponent. Ali's stepping forward testing the waters. Ali throws the first punch. Looks like he missed. Listing has dropped to the floor. I've never seen anything like this one punch and list in his down. Looks like they're calling it the matches over I'll leave wins via knockout. This is unsolved murders true crime stories of our cast original. I'm your host Carter. Roy and I'm your host Wendy Mackenzie every Tuesday. We dive into the world of a real unsolved murder. And try to solve the case you can find episodes of unsolved murders and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream unsolved murders for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type unsolved murders in the search bar it podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram Park cast and on twitter at podcast network? And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you are listening. This is our second episode on Sunday. Liston the notorious heavyweight boxer who died mysteriously in his Las Vegas home in the last days of one thousand nine hundred seventy last week. We examined the events leading up to is suspicious. Death in this week will uncover who may have been responsible. Sonny Liston was a black man born into poverty in the nineteen thirties. Not only did he suffer abuse at the hands of his father but he faced a mistrusting and often blatantly bigoted world but through sheer talent in some ties to the mob. He was able to become a world heavyweight champion and celebrity. Sonny's boxing career was a lustrous and celebrated that is until a supposedly fixed match against Muhammad. Ali brought both him and his career down to the Mat on May twenty fifth nineteen sixty five. His fans were puzzled and outraged. Why would a former world champion go down so easily? What did have to gain from losing that match? The world would never know the answer to that question. Although a fairly credible rumors suggested that the nation of Islam which backed Ali had come to an agreement with the Mafia which bat sunny. If Sonny took a dive the story goes he'd be granted a cut of Ali's future profits based on the lavish life sunny lead until his death. The public had good reason to believe these rumors were true. Sunny became a fixture in Las Vegas and joining a lifestyle of a celebrity on the Vegas Strip. He developed a gambling habit and to supplement his income in one thousand nine hundred sixty six. The former heavyweight champ turned to selling drugs with the help of his. Cd friend Ash Resnick. It's also possible. That Sonny Liston used the drugs he sold however whether or not sunny actually had a drug habit is debated to this day regardless the unfortunate truth remains the same on January Fifth Nineteen seventy-one approximately forty year old. Sonny Liston was found dead in his Las Vegas home with traces of heroin. In this system the corner reported that his death was due to natural causes lung congestion and Heart Failure. But this report would only lead to greater controversy in fact. The police claim that Sonny had a long history of using drugs and they quickly wrote off his death as related to his presumed heroin. Use this declaration struck. Those who knew sunny is suspicious. They didn't believe Sonny would ever use heroin. He was deathly afraid of needles sunny. Need you to open up. I have to give you the anesthesia before we can start the procedure. Dr. I can't you keep that needle out of my mouth and you find another way. There is no other way unless I fill your cavity without anesthesia. And I guarantee you'll like that even less than the needle you might be right. So what should we do? Oh come on now. Sunny get back in the chair. I need to fill your cavity. Linda see if he can get him back in here. Sunny hated needle so much. According to his trainer he even cancelled a lucrative tour and Africa because he would have been required to get several vaccinations beforehand. So it seems safe to assume that if money were using heroin he did not do so intravenously. There are other ways for people to use heroin but police found a puncture mark on Sundays arm. Though the coroner's report stated that the body was too decomposed to conclude whether that was related to cause of death given his Extreme fear of needles. It seems incredibly unlikely that he had used a needle himself. Which makes it much more likely that somebody forced the heroin into his system. This is a particularly compelling idea because during the nineteen seventies. One of the Mafia's favoured execution tactics was the lethal injection of heroin semi had many connections to the mob and wildest afforded him a lot of luxuries in life. It also came with a high level of risk unfortunately for sunny by nineteen seventy. He wasn't as useful to the mob as he once had been entered is quite possible that they may have begun to think he was more trouble than he was worth for one. There are reports that Sonny had gotten a little loose with sharing details of what really happened with the infamous. Ali fight particularly when he was drunk allegedly. He was often found in bars around Las Vegas airing his grievances. He claimed he was supposed to be paid some of Muhammad Ali's prophets but had yet to be paid at all. If this was true and the Ali arrangement did take place. Then the mob would certainly have a problem with sunny talking about it around town. This was reason enough for them to take care of him. But Sonny made things worse for himself still. He got between the mob and their money as he aged. Sonny's boxing matches became more infrequent. But in Nineteen Seventy. He had one fight scheduled against Chuck Wagner the boxer who inspired Sylvester Stallone's character in rocky unfortunately Sonny's mafia connected. Managers had other plans. They had a scheme to turn a profit. Even bigger than Sonny's fight would earn them. Listen Sunny got an update for you from the ladder. We need you to throw the Chuck wepener fight. No no no. After Ali. I was a joke I want to win. That's how you're going to talk to me. I'm not loving this conversation. Listen if he did refuse to throw the match for the mob. Sunny was essentially biting the hand that fed him but he was also making it clear that he was no longer a useful player. This combined with his loose tongue about the Ali fight very well may have cost him his life but the mafia wouldn't have been the only group who had a problem with sunny spreading that secret around town. The other party allegedly involved in the deal was a faction of the nation of Islam. It's entirely possible. They had a hand in Sonny's death as well. The Mafia and the Nation of Islam were too dangerous and intimidating organizations. But to make matters worse they weren't the only ones who wanted sunny dead a former friend of Sonny's had also made no bones about wanting the box. Her out of the picture his was earl cage and he was. Las Vegas Beautician. Earl Sonny Liston my man you here for a haircut talk business haircut but you know. I always talk business. That's just a given got it? Hey Angelina go take your coffee break. Give Mr listed in Iowa little privacy to do a haircut. Yo I got twenty five K. Worth of the good stuff in the back. Let's get to it. In addition to running a salon earl cage was a successful drug dealer. He ran a mid level cocaine and heroin operation in and around. Las Vegas both sunny and earl participated in the illegal activities of the business but ultimately only one of them would pay the price police. This is a drug bust. Put Your hands where I can see him earl cage. You're under arrest Sonny Liston. Hey Man I'm not going to prison. You didn't let me finish. I was going to say how are you? Oh Yeah Yeah I'm all right. I was just here getting haircut. I'm not involved in anything suspicious or whatever. You're here for your free to go enjoy your night. Boys get in the car would you when police raided earls ranch home in North Las Vegas. They let sunny walk free that same night. As Earl was booked into the station sunny was pulled over for drunk driving. He was so irate that he punched the COP and ended up spending the night in jail anyway however the case never officially went to court reportedly earl was angry about this injustice and especially about the fact that sunny didn't use his influence to get both of them off the hook so earl vowed to get revenge on Sunday. When I get out of this place. I'll get that son of a subtle down. Don't make me get the warden. I'm not doing anything I'm just saying Sonny listens can pay after Sonny's death. Many in Vegas thought that URL saw to it. That sunny did pay. But for the Las Vegas Police Department in Nineteen seventy-one all of these potential suspects the mob the nation of Islam and earl cage were entirely irrelevant. They had closed the file on Sonny Liston and they weren't interested in reopening it though. Very few people actually believed. Sonny's death to be natural or an accident it's classification went unchallenged for over a decade. Then in one thousand nine hundred eighty two one surprise visitor at the Las Vegas Metropolitan. Police Department changed everything coming up. We'll look at the shocking details that emerged regarding Sonny's death and see what they mean for the case in now back to the story after sunny listens mysterious death. In December of nineteen seventy. There were a handful of people. Pleased to see the divisive boxer gone but there were exponentially more still who couldn't accept that he had died from natural causes. He had won fifteen of his last sixteen fights fourteen by knockout sure. He had a drinking problem but he seemed fit as a fiddle. Despite the general public suspicions there was nothing they could do. The case was closed that is until June fourteenth nineteen eighty two when a visitor to the LV NPD broke the case wide open. The mysterious visitor was received by one officer Gary Beckwith a little over a decade prior. He had been one of the police officers who had investigated. Sonny's death in fact. He was one of the first to arrive at the scene. The Night Geraldine discovered the body. Hello Beckwith here. Gary I got a guy here you need to talk to. Can it wait? I don't think so. He says he's got information on something about to go down. There might even be something in this. That's new on Sonny Liston. The man beckwith spoke to that day was named Erwin Peter's and the tail. He proceeded to tell the officer was a strange one. Peters had been working as a professional crooked vegas alongside a former undercover cop named Larry. Gandhi Gandhi was the Vietnam vet with significant. Ptsd he later claimed that this condition drove him to volunteer for the most volatile dangerous drug busts. He could participate in. Gandhi would frequently arrest drug dealers by posing as a customer. Most dealers at the time wouldn't sell unless you use their product in front of them. So Gandhi had to get clever. He kept capsules of Maple Syrup in his pocket which he would switch out with heroin pills at the last minute to inject into his veins afterwards he'd have the dealer arrested. Gandhi was an extremely effective undercover cop but his non traditional methods clashed with the modernisation of the department. He was eventually fired from the force for insubordination. Though he sued and won his job back he chose to walk away regardless then ejected from law enforcement and with nothing to lose. Gandhi turned to bounty hunting and then crime including partnering with Irwin. Peters to run a successful robbery operation in the late sixties and seventies the two men developed a unique system for their burglaries. Gandhi acquired a real estate license. So he could case a home by posing as a realtor setting up an open house on a different day at an agreed upon time. Erwin Peters would go to the house tie up and blindfold the unsuspecting owners and call Gandhi Gandhi within show up and robbed the place taking everything valuable that he could get his hands on as Irwin. Peter's recounted the robberies he done with Gandhi. Beckwith listened with rapt attention. One particularly odd detail stuck out to him. Peters told him that while performing the robberies candy disguised his voice as Daffy duck into remember that Sonny liston thing Gandhi killed. He shot sunny up with heroin. That's where you lose me Pete. There was no murder that wasn't an overdose. Gandhi bragged me right after he did it. Beckwith didn't know how much you could trust. What Irwin Peters told him? As far as he knew Sonny's death was investigated and done with by natural causes probably due to has heavy drug use. Sunny was heroin addict. And that was that. Plus despite Larry Gandhi's record he was well respected in the force. Something of a legend. Even it was tough for Beckwith to believe that he had been behind a significant portion of Las Vegas robberies. Still just be sure back with began looking into the claims. Peters made he searched through records of robberies done in the Las Vegas area over the decade and to his surprise he found a connection. Many of the victims described that the robber underneath the mask. Spoken a distinct daffy duck voice there. It was at least one. Part of Peter's claims seem to be true. Beckwith next step was to see if the robbery. Peter's predicted would actually take place. The officer had serious doubts that the infamous Larry Gandhi would be making an appearance at the Daffy Duck. Coincidence was too strange to ignore sale on June. Sixteenth Nineteen eighty-two beckwith set up a sting that same day. Erwin Peters began to carry out a robbery with Gandhi. Just as they always had first peters went into the house inside instead of a couple of unsuspecting homeowners. To tie up there were only cops milling about his tip had worked after about twenty minutes. Peter's call Gandhi his voice shaking. He was terrified. Hey Gandhi I. I got everything taken care of over here. I'll be there in a SEC as killing me. My car seat is all messed up. Say you want to get some food after this? I'm starving sure. What do you WANNA eat anything anything? You don't have an opinion Mexican Italian. We go get waffles. Mariam's hungry any of those. Who is this and what did you do with? Peter's you in a weird mood today. Man never known you not to have an opinion on waffles. Just get over here okay. I'm on my way testy. But when Gandhi walked through the door it wasn't a routine robbery waiting for him on the other side. Instead he faced a row of police. Guns all pointed at him. Gandhi put his hands up revealing that he was on armed policemen site heavily with relief. None of them wanted to have to shoot the legendary leary. Gandhi Gandhi was arrested without a fight and read his rights. A second piece of Irwin. Peter's Intel had proved to be true. This left beckwith seriously wondering maybe Larry. Gandhi had killed Sonny Liston but beckwith thought they had enough on Gandhi to put him away for ten years at least with robbery charges. It didn't matter which Crime Gandhi went away for as long as he was put away but beckwith underestimated Gandhi's connections who walked away with an indefinitely suspended sentence. It's hard to know for certain beckwith actually thought Gandhi killed sunny ultimately. Nothing could really be done with this potential lead in nineteen eighty two. The Las Vegas Police Department had no substantial evidence that Larry Gandhi had murdered sunny and the years after that didn't change so sonny's death remained listed as due to natural causes in the police files more than a decade after his body was discovered the case went back to lane dormant that is until nearly twenty years later when an ESPN magazine journalist named Sean. A sale tracked down. Larry Gandhi the answers. He found which shocking coming up. We'll hear what Larry Gandhi himself had to say about. The death of Sonny. Liston now back to the story after sunny listened was discovered dead in his Las Vegas home on January Fifth Nineteen seventy-one. The cops ruled that he died of natural causes stemming from lung congestion but many weren't convinced that his death had been natural despite several possible suspects with clear motives. The Las Vegas Police Department had made no effort to investigate. Sonny's death any further determined to find an answer where the LVN MP had not shown a sale and ESPN magazine investigative journalist and author began his own research sonning listens death was something of a legend at ESPN and the sale had heard quite a bit about the boxer over the years. His interest in sunny was piqued when he began. Researching unsolved murders for a novel. After coming across the details of Sonny's case a sale began to pursue answers to the famous boxers death in earnest and eventually he wrote an entire book on this subject while conducting his research a sale traced officer Gary Back with story to its conclusion where it stopped just short of providing any real answers but a sale wanted more. His first instinct was to reach out to Irwin Peter's but unfortunately he never got the chance to speak to the informant. Assail learned that. Peters had read it on Gandhi because Gandhi hadn't paid him his full share of their earnings from their robberies but while Peters was able to put Gandhi Away. It didn't yield the outcome. He was hoping for not only did candy. Still refuse to pay peters. He was furious. He made it clear that he would kill. Peters as soon as he got the chance scared. That Gandhi would make good on that promise. Irwin Peters left Las Vegas in nineteen eighty six and move to rural Oregon. There he got married and started a new life far from his checkered past. Peters was always evasive about his whereabouts even with his close family. His parents never knew where he was and he instructed them not to ask him on the phone as he was certain that his lines were tapped but even with all his precautions. Someone still found him babe. You gotTA Postcard Opposed Guard. That's odd no one knows this address known should even no? I'm in Oregon. It's postmarked from Las Vegas. Let's see it. It's just a picture of a barren desert. Well what's on the back? It says this is where you'll be. Oh God oh don't be upset babe. Maybe it's just something from the tourism bureau like this is where you'll be next year on vacation or maybe it's just a teenager doing a prank. Put it in the trash and don't sweat it. There was good reason for Peter's to sweat it one morning just months after he and his new wife remarried. She woke up to an empty bed. She couldn't find her new husband anywhere. She heard the car running in the garage and went to investigate to her horror. She found Irwin. Peters in the driver's seat dead by apparent suicide the theory that her husband had killed himself never made sense to Peter's wife or with anyone else. Who Knew Peter's especially since Irwin Peters had lived in fear of Larry Gandhi when a sale learned of Peter's death he was discouraged but still determined to get to the bottom of things? Assail considered his next move. If he wanted answers he'd have to track down the man himself he began looking for Larry. Gandhi in the twenty first century. Finding Gandhi was surprisingly easy after a simple search on facebook a sale miraculously found the legendary ex cop and sent him a message. He wasn't sure what he was expecting. The response he got was far more open and honest than anything he could have hoped for after exchanging a few messages back and Forth Gandhi wrote. I would be delighted to sit down with you. I was well known in the old days. Some of my activities were positive and somewhere shameful however I have come to terms with my life and realized that I was responsible for my actions. I can't justify any of my behavior and can only give you the facts. I know the difference between right and wrong. It should be noted that I have finally forgiven myself and have quit carrying that bag. Iraq's up the mountain looking for a penance see as the two made plans to meet Gandhi's home. Assail wondered what Actions Gandhi was referring to and given Gandhi's history. He couldn't help but feel a bit scared has he knocked on the x cops. Door is heart pounded in his chest. John Nice to meet you Likewise how's it going that me? Guess you're here to ask if I killed sunny list. Well I can't say you're wrong. Come on in so you didn't do all those robberies together. A seeing Gandhi cut to the chase a sale soon asked Gandhi about the cleves peters had made against him after all. Many of them are quite serious. Yeah all that stuff Peter said about me. I don't know what happened to him. He started to believe a lot of stuff. That wasn't true so you didn't do all those robberies together. Oh we did some of the robberies but when I was a cop I was a cop. I was always clean robberies. Were later when I couldn't be on the force anymore. They took away my identity. You know and I needed something you can ask me what you came here to ask if I killed Sunny Okay. Well did you know? I didn't but I could tell you who did really who earl cage man owned a beauty salon and sold a heck of a lot of heroin. Out of that shop with sunny he killed them. You can count on it. A sale published this accusation in his book the murder of Sunny List Him Las Vegas. Heroin heavyweights in two thousand sixteen. And there's good reason to believe it could be true. Earl cage was the beautician and drug dealer who ran the mid level heroin operation with sunny back in the sixties but when a drug bust landed early jail sunny had walked out. Scot free oral had always been angry at Sonny and vowed to get revenge and so it's not hard to believe that there was some truth to what Gandhi told a sale still even with the story is compelling his Gandhi's there were many contradictions and convoluted accounts surrounding Sonny's death some say he died of drug overdose while others say he didn't use drugs at all. Some pointed the finger ash resnick and Larry Gandhi and Gandhi pointed it at Earl but the murder could just have easily have been the work of the mob or the nation of Islam. And despite how many of Sonny's acquaintances wished him harm the suspects we've explored? This far still aren't the only answers to the question. Who Killed Sonny Liston? A chapter in a recent book has offered yet another possible. Murder Suspect the book written by Greg Swain and published in two fifteen is called war Jack. America's most wanted it profiles the author's father the late Mobster Dale Klein Aka. James Jon Ward. Jack or Jack was an infamous hitman for the mob as well as swims absentee father finally at the age of thirty. The two met and Swain urged war Jack to open up about his past war. Jack was hesitant he had once been on the FBI's most wanted list and feared that any talk of assorted history would only incriminate his family. Finally one night with the help of alcohol swim got some shocking information from his father about his past. God I love whisky all right. What were you asking me your relentless fine. Here's a story. You know the boxer Sonny Liston. Of course he was a heavyweight champion. Yeah well I killed him what you killed him. All rights secure voice town. Don't get all riled up. It was all pretty routine. Mom needed him to go so I gave him an overdose of heroin. But You keep that to yourself got it. I'm serious or you won't like what happens. There's a movie script out there that explain all of it but that's for after I'm dead. Suame promised he wouldn't go digging and kept his father's secret for many years. But in nineteen ninety seven war. Jack passed away and Swain flew to Los Angeles to retrieve and sort his father's belongings. That's when he made an interesting discovery amongst his father's things swain found a business card for movie producer. He called the number on the card and found that the man knew his father well and was also connected with the mob. Soon Swim arranged a meeting. And my dad said there's a script that would explain everything. Do you know anything about that. There is a script and it contains a heck of a lot but listen. Just leave it alone. I won't do anything with it but could I at least just read it someday but for right now it'll do things to your family that you don't want best to just let sleeping dogs lie. We don't know what's in that movie script and probably won't find out for many years but we do know that Dale Climb Aka James. John Jack claims that he was the Hitman who oft Sonny Liston for the mob. It's certainly a plausible answer after all war. Jack is the only person to have actually claimed to have killed sunny rather than simply being accused of it and as for Sonny's wife and son neither ever spoke publicly about their husband and father's death after sunny died Geraldine retreated from the limelight. Working various service jobs in the Las Vegas Casinos. Geraldine didn't want to be the subject of attention. While at work she always wore a name tag. That simply said Jerry with Jay instead of G. It was a thin facade but it did the trick on one of the rare occasions that she granted the press and Interview Geraldine avoided speaking about her husband's death almost entirely during his life. She'd been protective of sunny and she remained loyal to his legacy for years after his death. Though his life was embroiled in hardship and racism from the very beginning sunny rose to the highest possible level of fighter could achieve but with the reckless air that compel someone to make a career out of fighting. Sunny was sure to have his enemies. And because of this. And perhaps because of the unchecked racism common in the Nineteen Seventies. His death was never investigated further to this day. The cause is still listed as due to natural causes tragedy that his death was never formally looked into as a murder and that his killer. Whoever it was was never brought to justice we may never know for certain who killed Sonny Liston if anybody killed him at all but with as many potential suspects as the case had any of them could have brought him to his untimely end looking over the facts. I think that John James Ward Jack Killed Sunny for the mob. We know that they had multiple reasons to want sunny dead and simply offing. Him would certainly be the way they deal with the problem. Plus we're Jack. Actually confessed interesting. See I think it was Larry Gandhi. It seems odd for Irwin. Peters to put himself at such risk by accusing Gandhi of the crime. If it wasn't true I guess we'll never know well at least until that movie script comes out thanks again for tuning into unsolved murders. We'll be back next week with a brand new unsolved murder for more information on sunny listings. Death many sources we used. We found the murder of Sonny Liston. Las Vegas heroin and heavyweights by Shawna's sale and wore Jack America's most wanted by Greg Swain extremely helpful to our research you can find all episode of unsolved murders and all other par- cast has originals for free on spotify. Not only just spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like unsolved murders for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream unsolved murders on spotify. Just open the APP and type unsolved murders into the search bar. Several of you have asked how to help us. If you enjoy the show. The best way to help us is to leave a five star review and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at par cast in twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time if we live till next time. Unsolved murders. True crime stories was created by Max Cutler Park has studios original executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler sound design by Michael Lang's ner with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden Freddie Beckley in Paul Moller. This episode of unsolved murders was written by Lennox. Who Knew John with writing assistance by Maggie admire the amazing cast of voice? Actors includes Mike Kaposi Sky. King Harris Markson Dan Velazquez. It Stars winning McKenzie in Carter Roy. Remember if you enjoy these episodes and want to hear more true cold cases follow unsolved murders on spotify new episodes premiere every Tuesday. Listen free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
Hells Angel Pt. 2: Sonny Barger
"Due to the graphic nature of this kingpins crimes listener discretion is advised this episode includes discussions of drug use and violence that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen on a summer day in the mid nineteen sixty s at Bass Lake the California hells angels with gathered for their annual meeting the unofficial leader thirty year old. Sonny Barger strolled through the quiet campground as president of the Oakland. Charter he was a legend in his own right. At least that's what he'd say as Sunny w-e-l-t he's spotted Lebron's new California. Hells Angels Flag. It featured a redesigned logo that had been strung up by some members of the so cal. Charters the show of unity pleased sunny. They were all brothers under the patch. No matter what part of the state they called home but something unusual caught his eye. Sunny looked closer. The flag was riddled with small holes bullet holes furious. He stormed up to the nearest. So cal Angel Grubby Glenn. Sunny demanded to know what had happened or his brother's really so pissed about the redesigned patch that they would shoot up their own flag grubby. Glenn kept his mouth shut but sunny had a secret weapon for making a Man. Talk his fists. Sunni wailed on Grubby Glenn and soon all the nearby angels were getting in on the action. Sunny kept punching until the so cal. Angels were all on the ground or in the lake if anyone was unsatisfied with his decisions. Tough Luck Sunny. Bargar was the head of the hells angels. And what he said was law. Welcome to kingpins. Apar- cast original. I'm Alistair Murdoch and I'm Kate Leonard. Every Friday we journey inside the ranks of Organized Crime Rings From Street gangs to mafiosos to understand how a kingpin or Queen Pin Rises to the top of the underworld and why they full as we follow the lives of infamous crime bosses. We'll explore. How money and power change them and how? It changed the community around them. You can find episodes of kingpins and all other parkas originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream kingpins for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type kingpins in the such PA at podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network? This is our second episode on Sunny Bunga President of the Oakland Charter of the hells angels by the mid nineteen sixty s the hard partying and sometimes violent motorcycle club was loved and hated almost equally. Cops detested their mayhem but both hippies and conservatives respected the clubs strong individualist Streak Sonny. Barger grew up poor and neglected in Oakland California. He tried to find a sense of purpose in the army but was kicked out for forging his birth certificate in nineteen fifty seven. He stumbled into the hells angels however unlikely. His road to the Brotherhood was being an outlaw finally gave him purpose in life rising quickly through the ranks. Sunny became club president a precarious role when the angels were gaining a reputation as low level. Drug dealers thieves and violent rapists at the same time they were growing famous in the nineteen sixties counterculture movement as respected drug lords and parties especially after opposing anti Vietnam War protests in nineteen. Sixty five. The hells angels. Were a household topic. Suddenly folks all across America saw them as standing up for American values they became modern day. Cowboys Sonny Banga was growing into his role in the club. He wasn't just the president of a biker. Gang he was also an iconoclast businessman naturally. He was inclined to capitalize on their newfound popularity. Sunny made quick work of expanding the club in one thousand nine hundred sixty six the first non California Hells Angels. Club was founded in Omaha Nebraska. Soon motorcycle clubs across the world were petitioning to join the famous fearsome. Hells Angels. Sure the angels were still drug dealers and violent criminals but sunny didn't think that prohibited them from running a legitimate business. He officially incorporated the Hells Angels in the State of California and trademarked. The name and Logo Hollywood soon came knocking wanting to take advantage of the popularity of these crafts cowboys. Sunny loved the idea of Free Publicity. But of course that authentic name and logo came with a price tag one of the first big bike movies was hells angels on wheels in. Nineteen sixty seven which was the first serious role for a young Jack. Nicholson audiences loved the grittiness and authenticity of the film. Which heavily involved the hells angels themselves. The Oakland Charter were paid as consultants on the movie and Sunny even acted in a small role as president of Hells Angels. In his memoir he recalled how well. Nicholson fit in during filming. Some angels even took him for a member of another charter. This kicked off a trend of biking movies that romanticized and valorize the hells angels a dizzying slate of films followed including angels from Hell Angels unchained. Angels Die Hard. Hell's angels sixty nine and black angels. The Glamour was free and brought in good coin but sunny remained focused on the real moneymaker the angels burgeoning drug trade nineteen sixty seven was the year of the famous summer of love when hippies and free spirits flooded into the Haight Ashbury neighborhood of San Francisco. They were looking for freedom and free love and of course lots of drugs. The hells angels had always been prolific pot smokers and low level dealers but their encounter with Ken Keesey and his Merry Pranksters in one thousand nine hundred sixty five introduce them to psychedelics. The hippies did we'd LSD a lot of which was provided by the angels. But what brought the hells angels into the Big Leagues was Finn Psych Ledeen? Pcp for short. Which the hells angels made famous under the street name Angel Dust. Pcp was a powder that could be snorted or mixed with tobacco or marijuana and smoked. Plus it was cheap to make in large quantities in a lab. No need to wait for marijuana plants to grow. This gave the hells angels complete control over the process if they could speed up supply. Well that meant they could meet demand meaning more money but the heyday of angel. Dust was short-lived hippies. Took it seeking transcendent dissociation? 's but too often got bad trips which could include hallucinations. Paranoia and psychosis sunny. Knew there were problems with. Pcp but didn't want to give up the stable revenue from selling a lab may drug so he found the next best thing meth a shell. Oil scientist named Kenny. Maxwell taught the angels everything they needed to know to be successful street chemists but just as the hells angels seemed on top of their drug Laden World. Their popularity much like the decade of the nineteen sixties was about to come to an end. The summer of love continued through the apex of the famous Woodstock Concert in August of nineteen sixty nine yet. One band wanted to make an even bigger mark on rock and roll history. The Rolling Stones said about staging their own outdoor concert in San Francisco on December sixth nineteen sixty nine arguably the biggest Brit Band in America. The stones were wrapping up touring for their upcoming album. Let it bleed. This conveniently helped them shoot. GimMe shelter a documentary about the guys. The dog though would be incomplete without a big finale. Something only a huge free concert could deliver. The stones were no strangers to the angels or so they thought during their nineteen. Sixty-nine CONCERT IN LONDON. The band had mistakenly believed the leather clad. Security guards were members of the hells angels. The stones like the image of being protected by so they reached out to Pete. Now president of the San Francisco Hells Angels to broker the deal in exchange for five hundred dollars worth of beer. The Bay area hells angels with sit on stage and protect these wimpy rock and rollers that big finale as often require months of planning the stones had only days when they couldn't get the permits necessary for golden gate park band scrambled to find another location. Eventually they landed on the ultimate speedway a car racing track thirty miles outside of Oakland. The speedway was no woodstock instead it was full of busted cars and broken gloss and there wasn't enough time to build a proper stage so a smaller one was constructed just a few feet off the ground. The only barrier separating the banned from the audience would be a thin piece of string. The venue was less than ideal but the stones hope they're founds wouldn't mind but the night before the show. The hippies and flower children of San Francisco weren't arriving in droves as the band had hoped instead a different crowd camped out getting ready for the next day. They were rowdy and started drinking even the LSD was different when the summer of love began. Drugmakers run a mission to produce pure drugs with the blissful highs but as the illegal drug trade grew more vendors jumped in and they were far less scrupulous some even added strychnine poison under the auspices that it would lengthen. The trip others laced. Lsd with speed which made people over stimulated party is also mixing booze with acid something. No hippie would condone just a few years. Before now getting stoned wasn't about to spiritual experience it was about getting wasted. The cocktail of alcohol and acid led to erratic often violence behavior as the morning dawned on December ninth. A group of hells angels rolled up in an old school bus with their wives and girlfriends but instead of bringing some order to the chaos. They did what? Hell's Angels Do Best. Join the party. Sunny Bongo wasn't on the bus. Sure he was looking forward to the free beer and concert later that evening. But December ninth was a monthly offices. Meeting Sonny was nothing if not a stickler for club rules while he and the other senior angels were discussing business in Oakland. Things were quickly getting out of hand. Almonte Concert Goers Broke through the flimsy string barrier during Carlos Santanas said forcing the younger angels to protect musicians using their favorite weapons fists. By Five PM. The Sun was setting. The crowd was riled. Up and sunny. Baga was pulling into the speedway with pack of Angels Largely Unaware of the chaos awaiting him almost immediately knew something was wrong. The stones were due to perform any minute yet. The band was hiding backstage seeing the massive rowdy crowd. They'd hoped waiting out of sight would calm things down. Sunny sent his angels to work clearing the crowd back from the stage. They even created another barrier using their own bikes. This was as good a protection as could be offered. Everyone knew that when you mess with one angels bike the whole club would make you pay for it. Sunny and a few other angels then ventured backstage for a meeting with the stones formalities. Did little to take off the edge. Though the stones were fidgety taking their time and retuning their instruments stalling the inevitable. Growing impatient sunny assured them that it was a safe. As it was going to get things would only get worse the longer. The crowd was forced to wait. The stones though didn't want to chance their safety. They wanted the angels to escort them onto the stage. Boga bristled at the proposal. He'd come too far to be serving to a bunch of wimpy musicians but to keep the peace sunny and a bunch of angels took the stage ahead of the stones a warning to the audience as he anticipated their presence did little to control the angry intoxicated crowd. Just after the stones took the stage one exhausted audience. Member leaped up from the grass and rushed towards them which just so happened to be the exact spot where the angels bikes were lined up on stage. Sunny spotted a fan kneeling top one of the angels bikes. He yelled the guy to get off to no avail so sunny jump down off the stage to remove him himself other hells angels followed suit abandoning the stage to protect their property. They shoved and punched the audience. Who responded by pushing back and throwing glass bottles as the music began drugged out fans kept lashing out. A topless woman tried to climb over the front row of the audience and onto the stage while several angels unsuccessfully pulled it her sunny hopped backup and kicked her in the head. The naked woman dropped with. Thaad clearly spooked. The stones tried to get sunny's attention. They were going to stop playing but sunny knew that the music was the only thing preventing a full fledged riot from breaking out. Sunny pulled out his pistol and jammed it into guitarist. Keith Richards side. His message was clear. Play or else the Music Lurch Don as if queuing up the worst part of the night an eighteen year old fan named Meredith Murdoch hunter was high on meth and desperate to get a better view of the band. Murdoch was pushed back from the stage and knocked down by a group of angels in response. He pulled a pistol out of his pocket and held it out to defend himself. A hells angel named Alpes arose spotted the weapon. He pulled out a hunting knife. Then tackled Murdoch. He stabbed him in the back. Five Times as Murdoch lay bleeding on the ground the rest of the angels swarmed his limp body beating and stomping him until he lay dead. What Sonny Barger didn't know? Was that the death of Murdoch. Hunter would haunt the hells angels for the rest of their lives. Coming up the feds put the squeeze on Sunny. Baga and the hells angels. Hi It's Kate. I am thrilled to tell you about a new park house show. I'm hosting with my the dark side of and political scandals partner Richard. They are natural born leaders with a never ending thirst for power through force and deceit. They rise through the ranks toward radicalism. Eliminating anyone who stands in their way and the only thing more inevitable than their rise is there ruin discover the true stories of power. Greed and deceit in the park cast original series dictators. Every Tuesday dictators examines the reign of a real life tyrant exploring the unique conditions that allowed them to seize control. Each dictator is analyzed in two part episodes with the first giving insight into their rise to power and the second chronicling the impact of their downfall. Hear more about the men who claim to love their country but were intricately responsible for killing millions of their own people. Men such as Prime Minister Benito Mussolini Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un and even Julius Caesar himself discover the governments that fell the lives that were destroyed and evil at its highest level followed dictators. Free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts. Now back to the story in the nineteen sixties sunny biogas. Hells Angels held unique status as rogue outlaws and pop culture phenomena but when Angel killed a Raucous Concert Goer at altamont. All of that changed. It was unclear. Who to blame for the mess. The Rolling Stones. The other concert organizers and the police all certainly shouldered some responsibility but no one could deny the famous outlaw bikers were most complicit it was an angel who wielded the fatal knife alum passer was charged with the murder of murdoch hunter but he went on to plead self defense and was acquitted though he avoided prison time. The court's ruling on his innocence didn't matter in the Court of public opinion. The hells angels lost all the public. Goodwill they had built up throughout the nineteen sixties. They were longer viewed as misunderstood individualists. They were murderers and to the police. They were the biggest organized. Crime threats in California Sunny Bargar would enter the nineteen seventies squarely in the crosshairs of the FBI. In June of nineteen seventy his oakland home was raided by the feds. Atip indicated they might find a big drug stockpile but that turned up dry. What did exist in Sonny Bono goes home however was a lot of guns and unlucky for him? California had recently passed a law stating that ex-felons like Sunny where prohibited from possessing firearms violation of gun. Laws wasn't exactly what the feds were going for but it would do as protocol dictated. They had two infantry his stockpile. In that moment the feds courts a lucky break. Donald Howarth a former Mr America just so happened to be walking up Sonny's driveway. He was an empty handed. Either the suspicious looking briefcase. He carried contained three hundred fifty thousand dollars worth of cocaine and heroin. Naturally the feds searched him not a bad consolation prize. How with was convicted of possession and sentenced for five years to life incredibly sunny manage to beat the charge. He slid off on a technicality that the Fed sees the drugs before they officially entered. Sonny's home beating criminal. Charges was a theme that would continue through the early nineteen seventies for sunny even when the evidence was staring the police right in the face. Two years later in January of one thousand nine hundred seventy two park rangers outside of Oakland noticed a suspicious site. A caravan of vehicles was winding down the mountain roads. Late night thinking they might have caught. Some illegal hunters. They attempted to stop the vehicles. That's when all hell broke loose one car careened off. The road then tried to run over the park rangers when they approached on foot the other car gave chase down the hill as random objects were thrown out of the windows by the time. The rain just stopped both vehicles. They were sure they weren't dealing with ordinary hunters. But sure enough inside the car. Not other than sunny. Baga and a handful of Hell's angels but as the Rangers proceeded to arrest the bikers. They heard some muffled noises coming from inside the trunk when the LID was lifted. They found two men bound and gagged inside. Meanwhile the other Rangers had backtracked up the road. Together the items that had been jettisoned from the vehicles they found a handgun shotguns ammunition and Silva belt buckle engraved with the words sunny. Baga President Oakland Hells Angels. Sonny was arrested a typical open and shut case of kidnapping seemed imminent. By the time the case went to trial though the two men in the trunk had changed their tune. They now insisted that they were willing participants. In an innocent hazing ritual. This was a frequent occurrence at a hells angels trial key. Witnesses would suddenly disappear or change their stories at the last minute there was little the police could do sure they knew that the hells angels. Were COERCING THE CHANGES. But the authorities didn't have a clear plan to stop such behavior and without these key. Witnesses the hells angels would then. Walk free. Sunny bug is clear. Cut Kidnapping case WHO's reduced to a charge of unlawful imprisonment. Bargain pled guilty pay define and walked out a free man but sunny bargains. Luck with the law wouldn't last forever. It turns out dead. Men couldn't testify on his behalf. Just four months later on. May Twenty First Nineteen seventy two. The police responded to a report of a house on fire in the Oakland Hills. Once the fire was extinguished they found the body of the homeowner Severo Ajello. He was slumped in the shower with a bullet to the head later that same day to cleaning. Women found the bodies of Oakland residents. Gary Kemp Patrick Kelly Smith and Willard. Thomas shot to death in a nearby home. Bullets at the scene matched those found in a jarrow. It didn't take cops long. To connect the dots. Adjara was unknown. Cocaine dealer and camp often moonlighters driver. This was clearly a drug deal. Gone wrong. The police didn't have to search long for more information days later. A man named Richard evolved the walked into the local police station. Ready to tell his story. The Oakland Hells Angels. Were responsible for the murders consequences. Be Damned evolved e would go on the record evolve had worked with Jarrow in the past but on the ninth in question. He insisted he was only that as a friend camp and Jero had recently acquired a large haul of cocaine and we're looking for buyers and Oakland hells angel named Sergei Walton purchase. Ten Thousand Dollars Worth roughly one tenth of that total Sergei Walton was also conveniently the right hand man to Sonny Barger and ev- got the sense. That the hells angels. Business might not be finished. According to evolve sunny showed up at the house later that night in disguise with a pistol and a silencer sunny. Kill the jarrow and ordered both angels to dump the body in the shower and like the House on fire. Then he moved onto kemp and the rest evolved was unsure about Sonny's motive but offered his own speculations. Maybe he wanted to steal the remaining drugs or maybe sunny felt like the guys had reneged on some kind of deal. Either way evolving insisted that the boss was responsible that was enough to satisfy the Oakland Police Department. They arrested Sunday on charges of murder interstate dope trafficking and possession of nine hundred thousand dollars worth of cocaine. When questioned sunny insisted that he had never arranged a drug deal with the victims. He'd never even met most of them. He encountered one or two but only through low level mischief like selling them fake. Id's plus sunny had an alibi for the night of the murder. Sure he had been hanging out with his girlfriend but that heads account for something right. The police weren't taking any chances. They set bail for sunny at one. Hundred fifty thousand dollars which was way more cash than the angels could scrounge together. So he settled into the Alameda County jail to await his trial while sunny satin his cell the California State Departments of Justice issued a report detailing the extent of the hells angels criminal enterprise in just over a decade. They had gone from small time drug dealers to the biggest organized crime threat in the state. The State of California felt pressure to make its case against Sonny. They might finally bring down the leader of the hells angels but little did Sunny. No that the body count had not yet finished coming up his fellow. Angels turn on Sunny. Bugger now back to the story. October thirtieth nineteen seventy two was the day sunny. Baga stood trial for the murders of drug dealers severo at Jarrow and his associates earlier that year on that very same day a search warrant was served on a ranch near Yucaipa California. A small town north of San Francisco. Was it a coincidence? Probably not the ranch belonged to George weather and his wife. Helen within had been an oakland hells angel but since left the squad he was looking forward to taking a break from outlaw life to work the land but what was buried underneath that land got the attention of the FBI. Police had been led to the ranch by an angel named whispering. Bill who had served time alongside sunny in the Alameda County jail lonely sunny had confided in him about some angels business trusting his incarcerated brother to keep his secret but little did Sonnino. That whispering bill was dying of throat cancer. He wanted to spend a few more days as a free man. So bill made a deal with the police that eventually led them to dig up weapons raunch and sure enough buried deep under the earth where the year old remains of to Georgia bikers big Tom Shoal and Charles Baker who had been strangled to death they also found a young woman who had been shot in the head. This led to three. Hells Angels being arrested on suspicion of murder. Even weather and his wife didn't avoid the storm. They would take an in on narcotics possession and stolen firearms in police custody. Weathering was frantic and furious. He'd been sucked back into the very life. He tried so hard to escape desperate. He did the only thing he could think of. He grabbed two pencils and shoved them into his eyeballs whether n- lived and would even see again but he knew as he sat in jail. He had to do what was best for his wife and his kids. He had turned state's witness on Sunday. Burger back in Oakland. Sunny was involved in. What would become one of the longest running criminal trials in the county's history and this time sunny on the inside? Onlookers wouldn't be intimidated into silence. But even the best witness couldn't make up for insufficient evidence. There was no murder weapon recovered and a key found in son's house matching. A suitcase of drugs was too generic. Anyone who owned the popular brand would have the same key even worse. The police had undermined their own credibility. There was written evidence discovered that the Oakland police had traded guns with the hells angels in the hopes of reducing the angels bail when months of evidence retrieval and witness statements were concluded the jury unanimously found. All four defendants not guilty. The feds were pissed so they decided to charge sunny with every other crime. They could possibly pin on him. Given the slew of evidence they collected in their initial investigation and admissions. He'd made on the stand. They had enough to move forward. The charges mounted to possession of heroin cocaine marijuana as well as federal and state gun charges. Finally Sunny was convicted. His sentence fifteen years to life in nineteen seventy three thirty five year old. Sonny Barger entered folsom prison. He was told he wouldn't be eligible for release until two thousand two but while Sunny Baga was serving his sentence the state of California passed. Sp FORTY TWO. A law eliminating indeterminate. Sentences this included Sonny's fifteen to life. In addition federal drug laws had changed reclassifying his former convictions with the new laws. And some math. Sonny's sentence was revised to less than the five years he had already served on. November third nineteen seventy seven forty roads Sonny Bono. Go walk down to folsom prison and back into the world of the hells angels. Times had changed with sunny in jail though the FBI was getting serious about investigating the hells angels for more than simple drug crimes. And now they had the help of their new informant George Weather N- In one thousand nine hundred seventy. The federal government passed the racketeer influenced and corrupt organizations. Act Better known as Rico. It allowed leaders of criminal organizations. Like the hells angels to be prosecuted for crimes. They ordered others to do. It also added additional penalties for crimes like murder or arson done in relation to a criminal. Enterprise this would be damning for the angels. They kept expanding just as sunny had wanted them to while he was locked. Up by the late nineteen seventies. They controlled ninety percent of the meth trade in northern California with five labs dedicated to producing the drug. They made over one hundred and sixty thousand dollars worth of meth every single day. In one thousand nine hundred seventy nine just two years out of FOLSOM. Sonny was arrested and charged with drug trafficking prostitution and the attempted bombing murder of two policemen. But just like his prior murder case. This trial quickly fell apart. Due to lack of solid evidence after two mistrials the charges were dropped. Sunny even threw a party for the jurors. Sunny was a free man and had just beaten the same recode laws that had taken down members. Of New York's Italian American mob. But what would eventually shackle sunny for? Good would come from inside his own organization. Anthony Tate was as unlikely as informants come. He worked as a bouncer. At topless bars in Anchorage Alaska in the late nineteen seventies there. He befriended both the bikers and the cops when he was feeling generous. He gave the police tips about criminal biker activity on a log taped bet to police friends that he could infiltrate the local. Hells Angels Charter. The prize a steak dinner and a bottle of whisky. Tate quickly earned his reward and eventually became an officer in the local charter which was formed in nineteen eighty two. The cops passed him on this time to an FBI. Agent named Tim. Mckinley Sunny Baga was mckinlay's ultimate target. But I had to get his man to California McKinley partnered with Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms Agent Ted Baltas. The two agencies didn't normally work together but the angels had proved so tough to nail down that they felt the need to join forces. Tate's became a woking mold everything he saw and every word he said was recorded they communicate with. Tate's the same way the hells angels communicated with each other pages and payphones to avoid a tapped phone. Line tate eventually worked his way up the ranks and became west coast representative this move. Put Him on the radar of Sonny Barger on August twelfth nineteen eighty six to members of the rival biker gang the outlaws gun down a hells angel named John Webb in Kentucky. A long simmering rivalry that finally exploded sunny went to investigate and handpicked Anthony. Tate to lead the charge now. Mckinley and Baltics had to stay patient. Collect their evidence and hope that takes cover would hold on September twenty nine nine hundred eighty six tate. When to Sonny's house the plan was to talk. Vengeance regarding the outlaws but sunny was indifferent to any plans for revenge. He knew it was near impossible to find the outlaws who had killed web but he did tell tape that if two outlaws were involved then shoot two of them and call it. Even the feds told Tate to sit tight and not be coerced into murdering anyone. They were so close to getting the perfect piece of evidence to build their case against Sonny. The patience was rewarded on October. Eighteenth Nineteen eighty-seven when Tate showed sunny photos of the outlaws clubhouse in Chicago. He then proceeded to explain his plan to explosives on the roof. Sunny responded if that's what you gotTa do do it. This was the evidence the feds had been waiting for. They pounced on November Tenth Nineteen eighty-seven the police came to arrest sunny. Baga Sunny was I confused as to why he was being cuffed which grew into a fury once he learned one of his own had ratted on him as Sonny was marched into FBI headquarters. He slipped from his handlers. Hold just long enough to give one of the ATF. Agents a swift kick to the KNEECAP. He would go down swinging. But no amounts of flailing blows could stop the inevitable. After a five-month trial sunny was convicted of conspiracy to violate federal law to commit murder a cell in Phoenix federal prison and a fifty nine month sentence awaited. Him Sunny was released from prison in Nineteen ninety-two. He was fifty four years old and recovering from throat cancer. His time in Phoenix though meant he was a convicted felon forever on the government's radar when sunny got out. The Oakland business he built from nothing was all dried up too. Many of them meth cooks had been busted without sunny as their figurehead. A lot of the Oakland hells angels scattered. Sell Sunny decided to stay in Arizona. He liked the desert heat and besides California was getting too liberal for his tastes. Anyway it would have been easy for sunny to leave his bike. Capac- behind by a piece of land like George Weapon had tried to do but sunny had been a hells angel for too long. It was the only life he knew. And even the risk of another jail sentence wasn't enough to give up that identity so he started over. He reached out to a local bike again. Cold the DETI dozen who had reputation as the longest and most violent gang in the state the dozen had put in a lot of work eliminating rival gangs in Arizona including the vetoes. Mongols and Devil's disciples. They were in total control of the Arizona drug trade and had no reason to accept an outsider into their organization in October. Nineteen Ninety eight six years after he was released from prison. Sunny Bargo was founder of a brand new charter the Arizona Hells Angels. His first order of business was to bring over some old California brothers to clean house. They kicked out a bunch of the dirty dozen members. That Barbara didn't think. Were bad enough to be hells angels of the One hundred and twenty original members. Only forty two stayed. Eighty five percent of them had felony arrest records. To this day the Arizona Charter has the reputation for being the most vicious of all the angels Sonny Barger was back on top of the hells angels his next challenge restoring the angels to the height of their nineteen sixties popularity in two thousand. He published his autobiography. Hells Angel the life and Times of Sunny Burger which became an international bestseller. He has since written half a dozen more books on the life and times of an outlaw motorcycle gang with sunny as the author of his own story. He painted the picture of the Angels. As loveable outlaws. Who were the unfortunate victims of government? Overreach the FBI. Atf would continue to try and catch sunny for gun and drug offenses but nothing major would ever stick again. He even made it back to Hollywood. In the mid to thousands sunny landed a recurring role on the angels inspired. Tv show sons of anarchy where he played the role of Lenny the PIMP Janna wits. It seemed that Sunny Bugah managed the most difficult feats of all full from the heights of power scrape rock bottom and still make it back to the talk. Thanks again for listening to kingpins. You can find more episodes of kingpins and all other parkas originals for free on spotify not only spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcast originals. Like kingpins for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to string kingpins on spotify. Just open the APP and type kingpins in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you. Next time kingpins was created by Max Cutler. And his OPOKU studios original executive producers include Maxon Ron Cutler sound design by Trent Williamson with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carleen Madden and Travis Clark. This episode of kingpins was written by Margaret's Lebron with writing assistance by Kate. Gallagher and stars Kate Leonard and Alistair Murden Kate here. I can't wait for you to check out a new show. I'm hosting with my the dark side of and political scandals partner Richard every Tuesday delve into the minds of some of the world's most infamous and feared leaders in the park cast original series dictators. Join us as we examine the reign of a real life tyrant exploring the unique conditions that allowed them to seize control. Discover the governments that fell the lives that were destroyed and evil at its highest level search for dictators in the spotify APP and listened free today.
Celebrating Sonny Rollins / Octavia Spencer
"From whyy in Philadelphia I'm terry gross with fresh air. Today is the ninetieth birthday of the great tenor saxophonist and improviser Sonny rollins will celebrate by listening to some of his music spanning five decades served with commentary from our jazz critic, Kevin Whitehead, and will listen back to my nineteen ninety-four interview with Ron. Later will hear my interview with Octavia Spencer. She's nominated for best actress. Emmy for her performance in the Netflix's limited series self-made inspired by the story of Madame CJ Walker who was born in eighteen sixty seven to parents who had been slaves through marketing hair products for black women she became the first American female self made millionaire. Spencer won an Oscar for performance in the help and she was nominated for her role in hidden figures and the shape of water. Today, we celebrate the ninetieth birthday of Tenor Saxophonist Sonny rollins. He's long been hailed as our greatest living jazz improviser and continues to inspire generations of musicians. rollins recorded his first sessions as Seidman at age eighteen in nineteen, forty nine and played his last live shows in two thousand twelve and a few minutes listen back to an interview with rollins from our archive, which I recorded in nineteen, ninety four but I are jazz critic Kevin Whitehead Delivers A. Toast featuring music from five decades of Sonny rollins long career. Management. Sonny rollins and nineteen eighty-nine playing Tennessee Waltz. One of those oddball selections Rawlins's known for. He plays unlikely or in cool tunes not to be arch, but because he likes them. Like so many good things in Rawlins's music you can trace such choices back to the one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty s when he knocked out a slew of classic albums including work-time Saxophone Colossus a night at the village vanguard freedom suite and way out west. I. I'm an old cowhand, nineteen, fifty seven. Sonny rollins first idol was saxophonist Coleman. With his big imposing tenor sound and sophisticated soloing. And rollins was a protege of felonious monk who sounded like no one else made generous use of space and minded the melody while improvising. Rollins embraced all those qualities just mentioned. His rhythm could be slippery and his solos were praised for their exceptional coherence. He's a thinking person's improviser. This is I've told every little star. Rawlins earlier late striking solos aren't just about the notes and rhythms he chooses, but also is sometimes eccentric sound. As a kid in Harlem he was into drawing and painting and his music has a strong sense of design. His garish tone is crucial to the overall effect. Part of a complete artistic statement. In the late fifties, Rawlins established the tenor bass, drums, trio, and jazz that open environment gave them lots of elbow room. Thereafter dozens of tenor trio records would not be sunny some kind of way. He fronted more hard charging trios in the nineteen sixties when he branched out in other directions flirting with the vanguard and squaring off on record against old hero Coleman Hawkins. Sunny through Hawkins some curves, but didn't throw them off. In nineteen fifty nine Sonny rollins had famously dropped out for a couple of years practicing New York's Williamsburg Bridge. The late sixties he dropped out again to reevaluate spending time in India When. He reemerged and early seventies, there were striking changes. His tone was now braying and metallic, and he gave more room to other soloists. So he didn't have to blow all the time. His new bands were more groove oriented using electric bass and guitar four Mattie stuck with pretty much ever after. There was less space and more riffing in his solos but no loss of momentum. Here's Rawlins in Nineteen ninety-six ricocheting off herald somebody's drums. Talk. There is an ecstatic side to Sonny rollins playing in his long late period, the sense of controlled abandoned akin to Raspy Gospel Saxophonist. Sonny rollins as people came from the West indies and he loves CALYPSO's such as Nineteen fifty-six Classic Saint Thomas. And his later phase, he wrote a bunch of Calypso's putting island bounce and a banner them. This is global warming recorded in two thousand one. Huh. Sonny rollins stop playing in two thousand fourteen for health reasons. As recent interview show his mind remained sharp. Rawlins has always been self critical and not much interested in reliving old glories. He believes in reincarnation and aspires to do better in his next life. That would be something to here. For All Sonny Rollins accomplished and all the pleasure he's given US listeners. There isn't done ninetieth birthday cake big enough. Kevin. Whitehead is the author of the new book play the way you feel the essential guide to jazz stories on film. Coming up my nineteen ninety four interview with Sonny rollins. That's after a short break. This is fresh air. Support for NPR and the following message comes from our twenty twenty. How I built this lead sponsor comcast business will Tom's CO founder of a space for creatives called wreck explains why they chose comcast business and how having fast reliable Internet will help their business grow comcast business in the Internet that they've provided us is really made it possible for us to prove that our business model works our visions to have thirty locations across the world and ten years and having reliable internet is a key piece of it all. Learn more at comcastbusiness dot com comcast business beyond fast. We're celebrating the ninetieth birthday of Saxophonist Sonny Rollins rollins started recording late forties and early in his career played with musicians who are in the Pantheon of Modern Jazz Charlie Parker but pal, thelonious Monk Miles Davis Max Roach and Clifford Brown I interviewed rollins in Nineteen Ninety Four. We began by listening to his tenor Saxophone Solo from his nineteen seventy-two recording of the Hoagy Carmichael Song Skylark. On on. The Road. Phone. Live. From. We we we in. A. Monks that to me one time. That if it wasn't for music. Life wouldn't be. With while living me now I'm not I'm not. I'm sort of paraphrasing what he said but. You, know. I don't play for a little while I get physically sick. You know I don't play my heart for for for a while. Few days or whatever. I actually begin to get sick and I wonder well, Gee, what's the matter with me? Then I realize I haven't played my home for a few days. When you're performing in your improvising Are you thinking. well, no not really no. No I don't think that's why I really practice when I keep these. exercises and so on. Because when I actually on this stage and performing the optimum conditions, not to think I just wanted to music to. Play itself. I didn't WanNa have to think about it if I have to think about what I'm doing been. The moment is already gone. You know. So that, there are certain times actually gets a out of body experience so to speak. What do you do when you practice now? I mean you're you're brilliant player you're a veteran player. Think a lot of people of your stature would probably just perform and not exactly practice anymore. Well. You know when you play an instrument amidst might be true with other instruments as well. But when you play a reed instrument you have to. Deal with your armature, which is the position of your lips around your chief to end the instrument and the the mouthpiece of the instrument. And, this has to form a sort of a cushion. And If you don't play for a while, what will happen is that your? Lips were bleed when you play. And even. Split. Your lip might split. It's happened to me when I. When I've had to lay off for repair to chime. For other things, I'm not certain I practice a lot of things but. I read once where my friend Max Roach said that Aladdin musician shouldn't really practiced practicing is cheating after certain. After you reach a certain point. So that may be right but in the case of just keeping. My armature from bleeding and my lip from splitting I liked to play a certain amount every day you know. One of the things that I love about your playing is is your repertoire, the the songs that you choose to play and you have a really. Diverse. Repertoire and you play a lot of old pop songs that many people don't know or have forgotten as well as some songs that are like novelty songs like you know to tootsie and I'm an old cowhand and Noel Coward's songs. Are these a lot of these song songs you grew up with. A lot of? Songs that I heard when I was a youngster. When I was growing up the big thing to do every week was go to the movies on Saturday and on Saturday we used to see a lot of these movies that had this scores on you know by seven composers and we'd see. Louis Armstrong and pictures and. Different musical personalities that I enjoyed a lot of course, I also heard music. I ran the house and so on but the movies did. Provide. A certain Large Part I. Think of some of the things that I play today you know when you started performing. Was it hard to find other musicians who liked the same songs you did and who wanted to play them even back in the days when you're playing with with miles Davis or with cliff Brown, did they share your musical tastes? I would say Basically. Yes. people like coach rain and Clifford Brown. We all had an appreciation of what we would call today the standard songs. It in my case I might. Have, found some more obscure songs. did you ever like propose playing something like to see and have other musicians you like you're crazy well, they might have thought so but they wouldn't dare say it. Why don't we pause here? Right. Right? Why don't we pause here and play your recording of there's no business like show business I love what you do with it. This is Sonny rollins there's no business like show business. Hum. John. and. Sonny rollins is my guess. You grew up in Harlem. In New York and your parents. I believe both of your parents were from the Virgin Islands. That's right. What were your parents ambitions for you? Do they did they push you to excel when you're young. Yeah well, I was the youngest child. I have an older brother who was very fine. Classical Violin Nancy ended up being a physician. Than I had an older sister who also sang a lot in church and everything. And so I was supposed to follow in their footsteps. Of course, I didn't because I was somewhat of a black sheep. Much more studious than I. And I wanted to hang out and play ball and. And as the years went on I was really. The guy that was out Going to jazz clubs and all these things were frowned on it at that time the jazz life when you started to play actually had a lot of heroin. Involved with it and you got involved with for a while when you when you were young. Do you think you would have tried something like that. If it weren't for it, be such a part of the jazz world in in the fifties. Um I don't think I would have actually. There would have been no reason. I don't think to get involved with that. I got involved with it because a lot of my idols were. Where we're doing it and so on. So we thought that using drugs was sort of the thing to do. But This is something like Asking whether Billie holiday would be the singer she is. If she didn't use drugs. I've had this discussion often with people. and my answer is, yes I. Think Billie holiday would be the singer she is regardless of what happened to her I mean even though she may sing about hard times in the alleged she was. Consummate. Musician and beautiful. Singer so Yes I. think that. She would sing the way she did. Charlie, Parker would play the way he did everybody would do what they did. We're listening back to my nineteen, ninety four interview with Sonny rollins today his ninetieth birthday. We'll hear more of our conversation after a break and later will hear my interview with Activity Spencer who's nominated for an emmy for her role. In the NETFLIX series self made based on the life of Madame CJ Walker whose line of hair and cosmetic products for black women need her the first American female self made millionaire. I'm Terry Gross and this is fresh air. This message comes from NPR sponsor capital one welcome to banking reimagined capital. One checking and savings. Accounts have no fees or minimums and a top rated banking APP that lets you manage your money anytime anywhere. Check on the account balance deposit checks, pay bills, and transfer money on the go. This is banking reimagined. What's in your Wallet Capital One NA member FDIC. We're celebrating the ninetieth birthday of Tenor Saxophonist Sonny Rollins by listening back to an interview from our archive recorded in nineteen ninety four. Rollins who has not performed in public since twenty twelve is regarded as one of the greatest improvisers in the history of Jazz. When we left off, we were talking about how heroin was part of the jazz scene when rollins was starting out as a teenager and how he started using. It must have been your parents worth nightmare when you entered the jazz world and then started using Oh yeah. Oh. Yeah. Well, you know my mother was pretty since I was a baby my mother really. She's stuck by me regardless of what I did see what is really In my corner but I had a lot of problems from the rest of my family, my father, my grandmother. really were pretty down on me and the and my siblings. They didn't really understand where I was coming from anyway so but. I have to say that my mother really. Believed in me all the way and I'm really happy that I was able to get myself together. Before she left the scene. So she kinda saw me make start to make wreckage and so unlike black bats site sort of made her. Feel that It just wasn't exactly all in vain. You know were you ever arrested Oh? Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Resurrect soon. Fortunately I had to. Get involved with the justice system and all of this stuff you know, but I was always lucky because. I was able to get involved with me programs in prison right? And in those days, there were other. Musicians there you know so. Did, it scare you when you imprison yourself, what? What, what, what am I doing here? Yeah. It scared me a lot. It scared me. Ludd but again, I was lucky because I could play an instrument and and. A lot of the other prisoners new of May. So I immediately had respect from them. But of course you know being locked up is is is no is no joy reid. How did you straighten out? Well It took a little while but I slid back a couple of times and everything. But I eventually had gotten down to the complete bottom. So I couldn't have gotten any worse. You know I mean I was really in in complete What was the bottom while the bottom was was sleeping in Park cars and in garages knowledge stuff. And what we used to call in those days carrying the stick. Carrying this. Meant that you were homeless I. Guess Today they would just say guys homeless. But I did this mainly when when when I was in Chicago. Chicago is was where I sort of. Reside there on my own in New York even though I was. Persona non grata at home I always perhaps Get by Sneak into house at something but when I was really away from from home I really. Had, to Pay. A lot of dues as we used to say, how would you protect your horn during the periods when you're homeless role in protect my haunt I mean i. Didn't have a Hawn really. Will you barring other people's Brian Other People's Yeah. What did you learn about yourself during that period? Well. What I learned about myself well, I learned that I had the strength to. Get over something which was really Deep. and. I think one of the things that I'm always always feel good about myself was that I was able to. Overcome. That because I really had to struggle, you know when I came came away from the hospital when chime and I went back to the nightclub, it was really the classic scene of the old jug pushes standing there saying come on man come on you know and this is good and I really went through the classic scene of getting myself. You know saying well, Gee, if I go with them wouldn't be so bad it's just one time and Maybe. I should do it and. Why not and this, and then the other part of me saying no, don't do it. You know I mean the real classic. Battle between good and evil right and wrong whatever you WANNA call it. but anyway I one out. And that's one one thing that I really feel good about myself. You know I really went into the lion's den. And came out alive, and then after that, it increasingly got easier and easier. To say no to Jugs, which which really had a debilitating. Thing for people that do. Once you found that strength and knew that you had it. How else will you able to use it in your life? Well. Then I felt I could do anything you know and And I could get back to what I really wanted to do, which is my Music how does that strengthen your music? Well, I don't know I. Think Actually I think I always had Had strengthened my music even when I was a kid and I used to. Practice for hours and hours and hours at a time I mean I I always had something within myself which. Enabled me to be alone and play and get into what I'm doing and not. Think about anything else in really get into stuff myself so. Actually, by getting rid of these negative elements averages able really to return to what I had big in in in the beginning you know. Tenor Saxophonist Sonny rollins is my guest over the years you've taken several hiatus is there have been several periods where you haven't performed an I think one period like that lasted was a five years was that the longest I think about? The low well. It's hard to say I took a hiatus on the bridge which was pretty well documented. This is during the period when you practicing on the Williamsburg Bridge and New York. Too Loud for you to practice in your apartment. So. When you take a hiatus, do you know it's time to get back to performing? took my heart is On the bridge can became apparent because At sorta gotten what I wanted to do I was trying to really. Accomplish something musically, and that's sort of gotten. Close enough to what I was doing that I fell. If I stayed there might have turned into self-indulgence and and that's not what it was about. So I'd sort of gotten to that point when I realized we'll. it's time to to come back I didn't. -CCOMPLISH everything that I wanted to but I felt that. -CCOMPLISH. Enough head. I proved the point to myself. I'd love to know what it feels like to play your horn on on on the Williamsburg Bridge and this is the period when you weren't performing but you were practicing a lot on the bridge guess in the middle of the night. Role Yeah replay played in the night and and the daytime anytime. It was actually a beautiful place to play because it was a A. Nice space up there you really on top of of of the subway trains came across the bridge, run a underneath you. Pedestrian Wall. Yeah. The pedestrian walk says really a nice space up any sort of right in the middle of everything can see. Manhattan and on the other side Brooklyn and. The boats should be coming by at night and you could blow as loud as you want and. Nobody would even look at you know every now and then people would walk by. Were nobody would even look you know. I. Mean This was the sophistication of New Yorkers. To everything. It's just been a pleasure to talk with you. We've been wanting to talk with you on the show for so long. Thank you so much for doing it. It's been wonderful. My interview with Sonny Rollins was recorded in nineteen ninety four today is his ninetieth birthday. I send my best birthday wishes to Sonny rollins and thank him for our interview and for so much great music, his improvisations, his love of melody and his choice of such varied and wonderful songs. Coming up my interview with Tavis Spencer who's nominated for an emmy for her role in the Netflix series self-made inspired by the life of Madame CJ Walker, this is fresh air. Some. Days reading a bunch of headlines just isn't enough. You need to look the news sink in. On considered this NPR's new. Daily. News podcast. We can help you do that. Each day about ten minutes you can find out not just what happened but why and what it means. Consider this new episodes every weekday afternoon from NPR. A whole lot of people say they believe in so-called peaceful protests marching as long as it doesn't block traffic for too long holding up signs and chanting as long as it's all polite. But what about when things get a little more? Divisive we're talking about going on strike, listen to the codes which podcast from NPR. The Emmy Awards are coming up Sunday September twentieth at Terriers Spencer is nominated in the category outstanding lead actress in a limited series or movie for her performance. In the Netflix. Series self made inspired by the life of Madame CJ Walker. She won an Oscar for her first big film role in the help playing a made in Mississippi in nineteen sixty three she was nominated for an Oscar for her role in hidden figures as the head of a unit of African American Female Mathematicians doing calculations for NASA to help launch the first Americans into orbit. She also received an Oscar nomination for her performance in the shape of water a film which won an Oscar for best picture. We're going to hear the interview I recorded with her in March when self-made started streaming. self-made is inspired by the life of Madame CJ Walker who was born in eighteen, sixty seven on a plantation in Louisiana to parents who had been slaves after first eking out a living washing clothes for other families she became a successful businesswoman selling hair products for black women eventually becoming the first self made female millionaire in America. In the first episode when she still working as a laundry. She's feeling ugly because hair's falling out our husband has told her she looks like a mangy dog. She tries a product that claims to restore lost hair and it works soon, she starts selling her own version of the product to poor working black women like her in this scene just at an open market trying to sell her product to a crowd of women. Let's talk about how Hacking be freedom. abondoned. Joys Yours. WanNa battle station in life. She needs to make more money. Come on. Let me show you have. I had a came burs able relationship with my half. Somebody all due to. See, I was born free. Two. Years After. Masturbation. Was Often by seven. Meredith fourteen pregnant at fifteen widow by twenty. Had Been for myself and Ama-. Baby Girl. All the work I could find was. In the field. Washington. Didn't have time. To, take, care of my head. I know you know what I mean. Hard work on the farm and wanted to work at the new hotel but. They say ain't got the right look. What she talking about. PUT US down don't give us nothing. Tell it make us feel ugly. What you come by my salon address, you have you got yourself a deal. That y'all a wonder. Why would you something for nothing? House I know how hard it is to cap our head. I know what it's like. To not have running water or products maple. But most important I know if she looked good we all look who'd If you respectable, we all look respectable. Everything we do as Negroes back on us. So can help one person I lived in us all. Have Grow. Gives me the confidence every day. To beat in. Slay the deem. Mike the good fight as color woman in a mayor. Wonderful. Leads the wonderful opportunities. ACTIVITY SPENCER WELCOME TO FRESH AIR. Thank you for having me. Can you talk a little bit about Madame Cj Walker as importance in American history? I can. I can tell you that madame cj was a a standard bearer in our household that my mother us to inspire my siblings and myself. To. Strive to be the best that we could be, and so I've always known her story. But what's interesting is Her. Legacy is known in African American culture but not really by the masses and she. Built an empire for hair care for women of Color Black Women actually and. She was the first self made female millionaire in this country. Did your mother used Madame CJ walkers hair product. No I I don't even know if they were still around. Then she basically, we had nothing and Madame CJ was born You know. Humbly as well, and she was a woman of of Of Purpose and That's what my mother used to motivate us to to be the best that we can be to reach our potential and so I've always known about her and I've always felt that her story was Germane to who I am as a black woman. So. If she not only did hair growth products, she did other hair products I think she made her straighten owners and cosmetics for African. American women and so like when you got to Hollywood, did you feel like that was still an issue having good hair products for black women getting good makeup on sets getting good lighting from in in the movies if you have dark skin. Absolutely I remember one of the first jobs I had I. You go to set and expect to be made up and there was no makeup for me and. From then on, I always carry my own makeup but I don't have to now. But I I definitely carry my own makeup, two sets and Yes. It is still a pervasive that women of Color have to have someone who knows how to to light them. it's something that we struggle with Within the profession. Madame CJ Walker, as we heard described her as having Hata Cain versus Abel relationship with her hair. Did you ever like struggle with your hair and did that affect your feelings about your chances of becoming an actress? No my mother. I grew up at a household with there are six girls and one boy. So my mom, the I used to love to watch her Wash in style, my sister's hair, and so she taught me how to do that I. I didn't have a kate enable relationship with my hair I do now because I'm so used to other people doing it yet. But I I didn't back then. So I WANNA ask you about the clothes that you wear in self made it set in the early nineteen hundreds and you start off as a washerwoman who launders close of white people and you wearing those kind of like floral patterned. how stresses I think they were called. You know Tell me what it's like to dress as you dressed in those close. Well. If I'm going to be one hundred percent honest I'm done a lot of of period pieces but they were. In the sixties or the fifties I'd never done anything from the earlier actually. I didn't realize that I wouldn't like the costumes be and I don't mean the style I mean the the the the fact that women had to be so covered up I mean everything the gloves the long skirts and the petticoat than the hats and for person who is claustrophobic I didn't realize how claustrophobic the costuming would feel especially with. On and all of that. So The clothes were really constricting in a way that Did Not enjoy they were beautifully beautifully done, but I was not a fan and I understand bra burning. I would say I, of course, it burn an petticoat I would burn the petticoats all I mean it was just ridiculous what women had to wear and stockings and little boots. was, it was a lot of clothes. You grew up in Montgomery, Alabama, and Can I ask what year you were born? No okay. I'll say nineteen, seventy five. Round in that. Okay So what were the schools like when you were going to school and were their books that you read in your formative years that were very influential for you. All I actually was dyslexic or am dyslexic and I had just a love hate relationship re with reading and It was my first grade teacher who actually my second grade teacher who really changed my reading career because she introduced me to mysteries and the hardy boys and Encyclopedia Brown. But I was actually Encyclopedia Brown because at the end of the Encyclopedia Brown books would always have the clues and the way she kept me engaged with the narrative she would always say you have to pay attention to everything because you don't know what is going to be a clue. So my deductive reasoning, skills were developed Reading. Mysteries and I now have a great eighty for mysteries and it was because of my second grade teacher Bradford. That's such a great story. I smoked several actors who have dyslexia and I I always wonder like how do you manage to memorize your lines when you have dyslexia? Well I'm auditory inclined, and so I record all of the. Other characters in the scene and I record all all of their lines and leave space for mine, and that's what I do all day. Walk around I walk around and hear my own voice cues with their lines. So, it's basically I was in front of you so that you can read them yet if I go up online yes I always refer back to the script gotTa See. So you're walking around with a script in your hand. Ready to fill in the blanks correct yourself if not exactly. Yeah. It's it's it's my routine. One of the issues that you've fought for in Hollywood is equal pay for women and equal pay for Black Women When did you realize that you aren't getting the same amount that white women doing the equivalent work we're getting? Oh, that was apparent from the start. You could tell you can tell what an actor gets What they receive on the sets no one's actually going to tell you what they make but you you can tell I mean we all knew because they all what happens is when a when a when they're putting together A. Production, they would cast the male lead, the white female lead, and then they come to you and it's like. Well, we've given out all of our dollars. So here, ears you know here's a change. And That's that's usually By the time they get to you know that there's very little money and I just knew that. I. Wasn't gonNA take that. You know much longer especially with what I've been able to achieve as an actress and Women that I've worked with Viola Davis Garage Hinson Jada Pinkett Smith I mean we all talk and we started talking numbers. And realized that there definitely was a pay a disadvantage that women of color receive and with regard to pay and. You know we shared information and and we all learn how to speak up and say exactly what we want in dictate the terms that we need it in our negotiating process but I yeah, it's something that was always a parent. It's always apparent. Octavia Spencer it's been a pleasure. Thank you so much for coming on our show a I. This was so fun for me. I'm such a fan. Thank you for having all. Thank you so much. My interview with activies Spencer was recorded in March. She's nominated for a best actress Emmy for her performance in the Netflix Limited series self-made inspired by the life of Madame CJ Walker. Tomorrow on fresh air are will be former FBI special agent Ali Sufen who investigated international terrorism cases including the nine eleven attacks. He opposed the as use of waterboarding and other forms of torture an high level al Qaeda detainees the CIA redacted his two thousand eleven, memoir the black. Banners. But now it's being published in an unredacted addition. I. Hope you'll join us. Food. Fresh Air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our Technical Director and engineer is Audrey Bentham, our interviews and reviews or produced an edited by any salad. Phyllis Myers Roberta shorrock San Brugere Lauren crandall Heidi Simone to recent madden, Thea Challenor Seth Kelly, and Kayla Lattimore. Our associate producer of digital media is Molly seavy Nesper I'm Terry. Gross.
Bonus episode: Corona Special with Dr Angharad Rudkin
"This this coming. Mommy's I'm GONNA Gibson. I'm Helen Thorne and today is I don't even know where I am universe on what's going on but we're here everyone. Yes we are here. Yes we do. We don't have a guest today. That makes sense. Doesn't it so this is going to be a bonus episode which we've never done before and I I mean between you and me Listener L. E. has put out this podcast every second Tuesday for seven years and it makes you feel very calm and in control so look the older. I like the frequency. I like the regularity. So I've resisted for seven years during bonus episodes an extra episodes and all that but guess what times of challenged the fucking fire. Lsi The world is literally coughing itself blind so so the roles are gone out the window. For example. The read the rule. Helena if we book show a theater we then turn up at the theater and perform the show and the audience come along that rules. We've had to get rid of that role that that is all done. That's right apparently children are going to school anymore. So yeah. So here's the thing so you might have seen on our instagram. But we're not doing. The live shows rescheduled. All the ones up. Until may if you've got a ticket for one of our shows before may then if you go to the theater they can tell you the day and you can come in onto that one and then it depends on the face off your refund Bart. Well the thing is that the teachers will be absolutely on their knees now. They'll be struggling so if you feel like giving a kind donation of your ticket price as in Diaz for Refund. That will help a local immensely. Yeah we know. That's not an option for people working on my totally. Get your refund if you need it but if you don't if you can if you can spare you know fifteen quit cash. It's probably really nice thing to do because it's not just about us. Shelf breaks It's about the people who run the office in the bar and clean the toilets and all of that stuff yes actual talents people who are actually have real jobs that means something to make a difference in the world. That's good and so that's that's not really so yeah. We thought we'd do in a bonus. Absolutely that's right so it'd been sitting here in La Kitchen caulking up like the last four years. It's like talking cooking up some ideas. So we'll do some extra podcast but also we're going to do some instagram live. So we're going to schedule a few Being alive focus or Boop boop be Dick's on screen basically. Yeah so we're going to put this out on Thursday. The Nineteenth March night Friday. The twenty th mark at eight. Pm UK time. We are going to do a naive show. I guess calling it. We couldn't get scummy nine in. Yeah like a variety show so that might be whigs catsuits and we've also varieties. There's going to be some laughing some crying not drinking. That's right art yes We'll be here. Could be mentioned out before canceling. Oh dear but anyway we just look who knows what anybody's going through at the moment but we just thought would provide a bit of joy and a bit of nonsense for you and people already said they're going to join us which is very nice. Yeah thank you very much. Shed and tag their mates. And that's brilliant. I really not. We'll see how it goes and this could be. This could be a thing to do. Now that we're otherwise. Basically unemployed yet is a good times. I must say like Ellie Gibson. Finale. We'll have done it for seven years and her favorite thing is to be in her own house. I mean there's a there's an up. Let's say I'm not. I'm not the person suffering the most. In this scenario my sympathy goes out to those. He liked being outdoors of goal of. She's got several pairs of jogging. Bottom arise so many. You may seventeen gray. Komo wants day very comfortable studios as big so the update we recruited to? We've had tin ages with Dr. Anne handed Rutkiewicz. Am I saying that right? Yes I don't know I mean you could go and Mrs Blobby. If you live she she would love that but just by chance. We had booked in this amazing child psychologist and she has written a book called finding your girl squad which is all about children and friends and bullying just so happens. She had all the knowledge and we asked her about how to talk to your kids about the corona virus and count current shit show. Yeah so we're going to put out the full length with jared later on in the year in the book is about find your girl Scout. We'll be putting out in a bit but we thought topical. Isn't it very current? We share her advice for dealing with your kids about corona and Doronin royalty and how we talk to kids about the whole thing. Why don't we share that now because it might be relevant in a month for many reasons? Yeah let's not get too so that's what we're GONNA do so we're gonNA play for you now Dr Atkins advice on all that shit as we're recording this the Korean various things so kicking off. We've just been told that we should all be staying indoors a bit more and stuff like that and no see kids pick up information. They're getting hand sanitizer at school. All this stuff. How do we talk to a child who has worries about Corona here? It depends on their age and I guess the blanket advice is find out what their worries are a what. They're understanding his kids. They were reason. Understanding of it is can be very different to yours which is going to be very different to your other child because they've different ages and stuff like that so find out. What would you know about Korean virus? What is it that you're worried about? What will the children are speaking to actually the not massively worried about it really? I think that will change when we get into sort of all isolation stuff in the day to day life changes but at the moment allow them on. Because it's not hitting kids no. I'm not seeing kids being really poorly so But for example working with people they see you know obsessive compulsive disorder where the do an awful lot handwashing because of contamination is all of that tattoo shift recently because actually the contamination. Fear is quite realistic. Whereas usually you're able to say what the chances go to. I'd say what worries you don't over do the Info because then it rains just can't take it all in our brains. Come and take it all in this and once. They want to stop talking. Stop talking about it. I think as parents we want to say. Oh and actually this is one more thing. And if they've had enough of it talking about it let them walk away and going to you know. Go Wash your hands. Wash your hands hands face and you know. Let's all enjoy doing. Our thousand piece Jigsaw for the next four months thinking about that. Delivery services are available. Whatever you can keep delivering books games. My father-in-law is literally stacking stocking up on jigsaw puzzles. He's hit that's his response to crisis. Are I love it? That's how that's got writing Richard One. I've 'cause constable on the table a leader. I'm all for that. What about grownups? Then to how do we? How do we deal with our own worries? Because obviously it's very I've found? I have to look a bit less than my phone because even like social media is just everyone panicking. I feel myself. Go into the whole you go and it really is only aggregates of backout. Advises don't really. We know what we need to know. Now we know it's highly contagious. But achy most of his party can be alright so beyond that I reckon can use their stuff because I think we can deal with. Our levels is only going to ramp up so much because the more emotional we get the less logical. We get so actually once. We'VE SEEN THE HEADLINE. You're going to lose a loved one year anxieties sky high. You're not going to be able to logically then look through the numbers and think our chances are. It'll be fine so I would say. Protect yourselves because the more worried we are the more word our children will be and we'd expend everything's sixty boo but we also need to let them know NHL. We're going to be fine. This is just a bit of a change to our normal life. You know what we've got. Lots of lovely tire together. We'll be able to their thousand piece. Jigsaw and actually spend time together because I think I was this earlier but I feel like my brain I have the kind of like nights information like snow all the facts and then I can work out a night. Fine said my brain is like more information on the radio on your phone again. Yes rain someone awesome. What is they give you then also scientist? Dr Like to get more facts. I think I've tried to think about it and I think I'm really doing is. My brain really wants the fat that says. Oh it's all fine and done some news just in we've done an experiment and it's augured. Where every Thursday? And we can all get Donald's it's fine and that's you all over the breaking news. You want the reins absolutely and I think it's that search for certainty isn't it? At a time of uncertainty we when we get inserted unsure about things we want to try and control the situation and I think the news is having a heyday because yes his personal information. British also in industry entertainment industry is going to keep trying to pull is into to find out more and I think our search for certainty keep it domestic keeping you know in terms of where am I going to get my next roller toilet paper. Or what's GonNa be the one hundred lunch I have to make for my children go now? You've got me thinking about toilet paper. How God is starting up again. I've got to go warning trigger warning. We'll be talking about Pedro on I own the CO-OP and the little saints just say shelter absolutely stacked and then also. What am I gonNA four four packets of biscuits? We're all just going to get sick. I rented on this. There's no there's no there's no chicken but there's still no results. As Roma's on God. I did wake up last night. Bolt Upright realized any in those millions. I've got to get some money. That's all space in this thing isn't it? I've got millions so confined because that's always obsess over social media and buy more onions. That's in a nutshell. What you control what you can throw much better. Excellent excellent well. I've led something yes I feel basically. I'm not qualified to myself and I know everything is calm. Everything is fine. She's lovely rankin. She's very calming presence year. She was she was fantastic. And it's really nice to just have just a couple of tools to get through. Because I think in these times you get so much fucking information from everywhere and different friends telling you this and heard this rumor but actually just to be able to deal with with your kids and yourself is so important. Yeah how are you bearing up? I mean I'll be honest. I feel like sometimes I feel like really mad. Young Really Mad. I went to Japan on holiday. Why parents you might say and get an all into stories you weeks ago and fade a bit like I died in a plane crash on the wing Pat. Yeah and now. I'm living in a sort of style parallel universe that I have to get out of what I'm supposed to do to get out of it. I mean I feel like he's playing a lot of videogames in your past. Maybe you unlock the world that you don't WanNa be it. Yeah I do not want to download this extra content. This is not something bogging force some of the time but then a lot of the time I feel like weirdly calm and acquired enjoy being raged with people panicking and just going God save. Everyone should calm down. But this is that just because you're in denial and you should be panicky more. How you doing? My General Outlook on life is everything is going to be fine. Everything's GonNa be lovely because I am a smoothie rover my on my Genesis rover a smoker. I and my general outlook on life is look for the positives. And it's going to be I K and as so just sort of doing that thing and I have got mild panic and I've got a bit of mild anxiety about it but but most of the time I think I have a house my kids and I currently safe and healthy and I just have to take every day as it comes and it's not like those people there's no there's no army at my front dog stands outside so I this Friday. I mean I'm taking it also as an opportunity I'm going to spend ever knows how long with my kids I thought. Oh Wow we could. We could try new foods like span. Who Free coming back. But that that supply. I mean these guys coming back. Everyone is because starburst or they. Now I don't know but they should be able free should special barriers upset about that the amount of content. You'll be receiving moving. While he's focused but look all next knickers is marathon again. Anyway go about look. I have to be realistic. Imsa Ralian in London. And I up two elderly parents Australia who I can't get too so I think that that for me as the biggest worry and my mom has really bad lungs and my dad is really old so I mean that's a hard thing but I have siblings in Australia. He can look after them so I guess there. That's me biggest worry. Yeah extra. Haven't yeah and also I mean how many nights in a row can we ATE PESTO PASTA and look up in training to this for six years and I think I can do it. I can I can. I can live off crappy food especially let's have done it for the last ten years but yeah I'm worried about or worried about older member of my family and yeah I'm just pissed off. We can't do live shows early because that's that's one of my greatest joys in my life yet and I was like before because we really when we held off the last minute and we had to cancel them in the government said we had to catch them. I was genuine. You can put in the streets of cats and get on stage guy. Brian everyone ship. But come on. We've got to like and everyone on social media has been so supportive very understanding about the fact that we've had to cancel them but before that everyone was very much like. Yeah we should. We need love so yeah. So that's the thinking behind the Friday night show. We mentioned earlier like yeah. That's why we're doing it because we can't sit around and cry and panic all day exhausting catsuits where themselves exactly I needed. Airing keep it in the scummy man months go. They're probably they're probably patient zero. This cat walking out of the van Zee Culture on them. Yeah and what's really nice is that we've had such great feedback from fans and I think as mothers we so good at supporting each other and then the mothers are coming into the four stem town because fucking out. We've got a lot to bear the next few weeks. Yes and I like that where we are still seeing. Chevron's still is fucking shit exactly but like when you can't look what can I don't as much look at social media and have radio four on. Have the news on the tally lights. It's a a good distraction because as we were saying then with Herod you can. I can get sucked into this spiral of like. I need more information. It said that does help. Like I was saying you like in South Korea. Things are looking up in Hubay in China. No new cases today now. Note here my Stroz. Don't stop me touching it then. Don't take it away from me on the stores and I'm hanging on to them for dear life and that starts Mike Mechanism. I think he's an excellent coach. And also if you want to write to us about how you're feeling Rhonda's on the emails or contact us on social media and all that stuff just get it out. There's no point worrying and being being holding inside does yes just reach out. I just don't tell me you're in the press office for. The mayor of London has told you that they're going to drop declare bottom tomorrow because if someone tells me one more thing that I'm going to go down Papal Cram their lives enough going on and look good so much good has come out of it and this is really fucking hard but all of a sudden people are talking to their elderly neighbors. People are being more kind to each other talk for the content of supermarkets dealing cans out of other people's trolleys do that. I'm but yeah there. There was always some kindness will come out of this high. So yeah yeah I mean that's again. This is my Sonny Sonny Sonny Outlook on by communists and also evil. That would be my finish. Let's let's say how it all pans out is. What usually happens. Get into knitting a probably. Won't yeah gets Netflix. Any anything like that too good really. I mean it's no no Tante. It's it might be all right. We'll be we'll be right. Yeah so that's that's really excellent and as we sit on the stories. We have about twenty five thousand bags of scummy mummy conventions. So we're going to mind through the scummy archives every show. We've got to get the audience right dinner spiny story on a card. So I'M GONNA get those out of the shed. Yeah all right. Well I I think is what? Maybe we'll do a daily Straw bulletin of Stores People Clutch up every day. Yes yes astounding. China man in South Korea not failing police. That's right reasons to be cheerful or reason to be less afraid reasons. Not just all now. Is that positive sounding enough? I think you've tried to best use of a copywriter. I'm not now anyway. All right what is I. Think certain. Just thank you thank you. Listen dear friend up because we can't do this without you. I mean there's no point making a park fucking listens to it. That didn't stop us in the first place. We all excellent. Yes thank you for all your messages. Please do if you can't shoot in tomorrow night. Friday night eight thirty twenty March. Uk Time instagram live. And we're gonNA drink some wine and have some laughs. God Account Wait Let. Let's do a little warm up now. All right until next time thank you did YOU SNEEZE SNEEZE. Eskimo fucking house go out.
#194: Money Tips from the Founder of Dental Investment Group
"<music> hey dennis money. Show listeners res harper year. Today's interview is one of my favorite people. Sonny sonny is a very very successful dentist and the founder of dental investment group on facebook which has a very vibrant and lively community around financial planning topics investment topics <music> and it's a super diverse group. He's masterful at creating a good environment where a lot of voices get heard and i think he's done a really good job of making great great creating a great community. I wanted to talk to him today about his perspective around financial advisers and how to look for a good adviser also investment smith thoughts thoughts a lot of personal finance topics that he's had been able to field from a lot of listeners. I hope you enjoy the show just as much as consultant adviser conduct your own due diligence when making financial decisions general principles discussed during this program do not constitute personal advice. This program is furnished by dentist advisors. A registered registered investment advisor. This is dennis money now. Here's your host reese harper. Welcome to the dentist money show where we help. Dennis dennis make smart financial decisions. I've your host reese harper here with these special guest that we've been trying to get on the show for months now the busiest man in a facebook <hes> and the one of the most interesting dennis. I know who's got a super super <hes> particular interest in personal finance. I'd like to welcome sunny pooja to the show sunny. Welcome thanks man. Thanks for having me on. I'm i'm excited. I read a lot of stuff on facebook about you and what you do for readiness. It's awesome for all the transparency in all the education that out there so so thank you for doing that is i think a lot of us need that in an amazing to see nick how much misinformation out there since the thank you for doing what you do yeah well. Thanks sunny. I i've <hes> i've appreciated all all of the same. I think you and me share a lot of similar values. I use in terms of just trying to provide a lot of different points of view <hes> an academic approach to finance. That's you know <hes> just is transparent and that there's a lot of ways to invest money. There's a lot of ways to grow money but it's important to know the truth about as many investment principles as you can instead of being kind of <hes> persuaded by <hes>. Let's say it kind of like a drug company. That's controlling <music> <hes> dissemination of medical advice. I don't like to see that kind of stuff happened. You know you don't want to see doctors being persuaded by drug companies to diagnose certain way and i don't. I don't like to see financial. Professionals being persuaded to diagnose a certain way because of how they're paid by drug companies which are the insurance companies mutual fund vendors different private placements different software vendors like sometimes these products can influence louis a financial advisor to give advice in a particular way that is not objective. It's not academic is not well supported and it doesn't help people it just as a sales those game and <hes> and you're right and unfortunately i guess is it fair to say that a lot of that is driven by commissions. It's a lot of that is driven by the lack of transparency because you're working for you know one form or another and you're gonna. You're you're forced to kinda. Push that that product service onto your clients what a link about what you do is that there's a lot of the independent endon research independent education that goes beyond what company is is trying to sell so it's kind of nice the de eh and we can talk about investments we can talk about advice and is independent of a certain product or service. That's out there yeah. It's it's really tricky in my industry because i mean there's no perfect. Compensation model like there really isn't but you know there's commission based raced then there's fee based and then there's fee only i wouldn't say any of them are perfect but they're increasingly better better. The closer you get to feel only commission based financial advice is just the equivalent of a doctor getting paid based on which which crown he places from which vendor using which or which composite he uses. You know like the it's not. That's not good you know like the patient should pay a fee to the dentist. The dentist should not be paid by henry shine for using a particular composite right and that's kind of intuitive but in financial planning that's not you know ninety ninety percent but close to ninety percent of the industry is still functioning running largely in a commission based environment <hes> just this week i saw <hes> a really significant case of <hes> annuity <hes> churning annuity meaning someone the soul the product that an advisor paid commission on and then every a year and a half or so they were sold again and again and again a new bell and whistle that came with new commissions and basically this money he is just like done negative growth rates for you know attack almost twenty years and it's just it's a bad bad bad ad model. I don't think there's a perfect model. Everyone wants it to be as cheap as possible. <hes> in my experience i found the combination of like a minimum fixed fee fi. That's transparent. So you know two grand a year or four grand a year or six grand a year you have a minimum <hes> and then as people's wealth grows and gets bigger if they want to have you invest money and get more services from you as long as you're not getting paid on any specific investment like you know then. It's a that's. That's the model we've chosen. I think it's a pretty good one a good fee only option but i don't. I don't think it's perfect. I just want to throw all that out you to get your perspective on this because i know your listeners or your your members probably have they range from like hating financial advisers and thinking they're like the bane of the the their existence to people that really appreciate them and everyone in between like how do you see kind of this whole discussion around fees and in compensation and transparency like what all that i just threw out you get your two cents yeah so you know while there are attorney smart members in the group at still being just about every one of us can use some advice on how to invest in retirement. I come across a bull on a daily basis. The messages messages you. This is my situation. What would you do. Can you ask <unk>. I've got this much money and it just goes to show you that. There is a lot of help that's needed just because you know people make good money just because they're gonna dentistry doesn't mean that they are good at making financial decisions or they're good at making those decisions at once. They're well rose is just feel uneasy about what to do. With that kind of money it is that people really need some kind of guidance on on what to do to help them grow that money and it does range. I mean era people you're right. There is that will d._i._y. Kind do it all on my own to people all that. I need step by step directions on how to make this happen burma self in my family. It's difficult right now <hes> to to find a i want every person to have some access to advice. You know some kind of access. I feel like <hes> the industry financial. Planning industry hasn't done a very good job of letting people choose their access level right. It's either all in or nothing either have to go find free advice from a friend or family member ember or you have to turn over your whole life savings to somebody and not want to do anything and it's hard to build different service service models for different types of people because the the one that's the most easy for me to build is the model where people are saying. I don't really wanna do this anymore. Can you do it for me. I trust you. I have confidence that your transparent. You have a whole process built for me but that's a pretty small part of the the market that's still probably only like fifteen percent of people maybe twenty i don't know might be as many as thirty percent of dentists but but there's another third out there that is totally warning to do it on their own and then there's a middle third. I think it's like i want a little bit of help but i kind of want to save money and not <hes> spend too much on high on help but i i don't trust enough. It's really trust it's like i don't quite trust enough to turn it over and that's a harder market to to help because no one really wants to be in business to do sure i'll i'll. I'm going to build up a staff of forty people to. I schedule one hour appointments to talk to people about isolated questions. It's not very profitable. You know it's it's it's a hard business to be in. It is <unk> by frankly. If you look at the last ten years you know things have been kind of easy because the market dropped so much that if anyone one could money into it and they say they just had a riot in an index fund or yes or you've been some individual stocks that are just massively performed. It was pretty easy easy to make money and volatility happened and especially this year. It's been a pretty boss on market. That's when people are like and this is just getting on a control. You know somedays on seeing my portfolio drop twenty thirty grand next up ten fifteen grand you know so it's just one of those things where now other trying to figure out what do they do in this kind of environment where markets are dropping you keep putting money in would you stop. It's not where all the confusion comes in and personally for me. You know it's kind of that's been where you've got all this volatility of the market in its art to bear. You're out you know what to do next because you don't know you know something that's tweets dry and sometimes it's <hes> it's it's charts driven all that stuff you know people that believe in the whole charts and stuff you know they they can see where the markets are headed. You know people that believe in the fundamentals men suddenly stop some of these. The these funds are so cheap because the markets dropped so much because of all the a trade war worries in whatever geopolitical that's where you want in the markets kids so it's kind of hard to determine for most of the people because i think i can't tell you how many questions i got just on you know. Can you tell me a little bit about what does trade wars about like just generally. What is the trade. Were yeah well this morning. The dow moved because of a tweet today right it was a tweet move right and all of these ways that people that's the beauty of market is all of these people bowl with different ideas and different views and different innovation skills. There are all just chattering and opining and like throwing their ideas at the wall and what what that that to me. That's the beauty of capitalism it the reason like the broad market the overall global double if you take all fourteen thousand stocks in the whole world and you just say why do they always go up on average at like you know on average close to ten ten percent a year you know why did this happen on average all the time like no other asset really goes up that much every year. It's not it's not it's it's not predictable on an annual basis but <hes> it's amazing to watch the world just continued to grow and create and build a a majority of the people what they really want if is is taking on reasonable level of risk in getting a reasonable return. You know we're not looking for thirty. Forty fifty percent returns in the air. I mean there are some people that claim they get at but more power to them. It's over isolated short periods typically and sometimes they exaggerate at the end of the day you know if you are saving a decent amount of money each year putting that money money into some kind of investment taken on reasonable risks and getting a reasonable return. You're gonna do your retirement there. There's no doubt i think a lot edifice had this fear of either you know starting too late or or or the big one right now is actually not taking enough risks in are truly come across so many people that feel that they have saved up so much cash in the missed out on this huge market run up in the near like what do we do next. I mean things look so shaky with no idea what's going on with the markets and based on the market movements you know sometimes it's up by her points the the next age down eight hundred points. What do you do now anything or we need some some guidance so so what are what are the things i wanted to hear you talk about is how do you navigate the world of financial advisers when we're talking about the possibility of someone being benefitting from working with someone. How do you navigate that because i see that i get that question all the time and i really honestly don't think we're the only good option and i really try to. I've written a couple of white papers on this that i really feel like our objective but i i think it's really hard for people in my opinion comes across bias no matter what because i am a financial advisor so they're like i. I don't even if i tried to sound objective. They're they're a little bit <laughter>. They're wondering if somehow have an agenda. I'm curious what what how you help people navigate advocate those choices so you not something and this is. This is kind of my opinion on it. I tell people look you're feeling you. You start talking to an adviser. You you ask a lotta questions. You listen carefully to their answers in see what their goals are for you and then some of that is just that gut feeling like what are you feeling about them once. You're done talking to that. You know is all about them or is it about you. Is it all about their client. At the end of the day you know when you talk to someone wine and they're trying to maybe issue into a specific kind of product or service might think okay that there is an agenda. That's going to benefit them than an agenda. That's going to benefit you so for me. I feel like it really depends on. What is it that they want you to interview said that the more money you have with them the more they can potentially make correct so at the end of the day you know. Do they have your best interest in honestly it's hard. There's no right or wrong answer sometimes because you entrusts online and still gets fruit or majority of the time it's one of those things where you interview the person get the answers you're looking or you obviously talk with your spouse top with your partner and figure out like is this going to make sense for me. Is this going to make sense from the family and if it does you move forward with that person and i and you look at their reputation and you look at their financials. I mean are they. They know what they're talking about. You know do they know you questions. Are they sounding defensive. They on on your side are they wanted to help you get onto the investments that you're asking about you know or one of the best things one of the best advice that i got early. John was if you ring up in investment idea to my job is to actually talk you out of it and the reason it has because i'm going to try to find any every reason why shouldn't invest in it so you can convince me why you should because that way. I'm gonna give you all the negatives behind why you shouldn't and maybe that kind of opens up your eyes because what happens is as investors. We bring up an idea to our c._p._a. Or the attorney to our financial adviser you know their job is to analyze the investment is a is it a good fit for my client and as an investor you already convinced that you want to invest in it you had the <unk> preconceived bias that you want to put your money into this thing in your face kind of looking for that. Yes you're looking for a confirmation bias from that person. Yes so what you're looking for. You know what you're looking for that. That adviser is to maybe by an reasons it could it could be a bad idea yeah. That's a really important piece of advice man and my my best clients are the ones that kick me the email with the private placement memorandum or the investment and say look you know i already wanna do this but tell me why shouldn't right and and and it's my it's not my job as an advisor to confirm that it's a great thing if it unless it really truly is most of the time my job is to to find the reasons why it might blow up on ya ya and but the challenge is sometimes i feel like an obligation to also oh advocate for a particular investment like once in a while. I'm like it's not my job just to be the noman all the time like i can't just be like everything's a no and so but it it is very uncommon that i'll actually endorse something because there's just most people get <hes> especially if it's not in the public public market right you brought up a point. I mean just this week. You had a post about someone that you were interviewing as a as a new plan creek yeah they were on on boarding we took on all of their documentation reviewed everything and audited them as a new client and you found out of their investment was in something that wasn't even investment was a loan or something or it was a it was a very large six-figure <hes> check that they thought they had invested in the public market but it was actually <hes> cached by their investment advisor and placed into the investment advisers bank account and spent and then when they when we when we brought it up the investment advisor was very flustered and flirt and scared and and told the client that it was alone own and he'll pay it back soon <hes> but this was this this has happened years ago and were barely uncovering at this point and there's a lot of ways to have avoided <hes> one of them is never write a check out <hes> to <hes>. You'd never want to write a check out to the name of another individual person <hes> mhm without significant scrutiny. You know a third party. Custodian should always be holding the money and not your adviser this particular investment the thought was transparent. The check was actually written out to the investment advisor directly at in the name of his business. That's not a good. That's never the right direction to go. That's that's a great tip. Actually i think i would want everyone here that one more time so so just tell one more time so you never wanna write a check out to accompany or the adviser personally correct ever never okay now. Okay you always check needs to be written out to a third party that is not related to the adviser meaning fidelity t._d. Ameritrade trade charles schwab <hes> interactive brokers <hes> any custodian bank of america merrill lynch the third party custodian ideally is not related to the adviser. That's not they don't have a financial or an ownership relationship at all. They just have a business relationship like i can. You write the check out to t._d. Ameritrade and i can trade in your account in your name but i could never take the money out of your account and put it in my account because it's only in your name so as long as you keep the money in your name in account in your name. You're never really going to have these these. I mean there's always cases of extreme cases. I could share with you where that's still one in a thousand cases where you could still still find a way of very sophisticated person could find a way to to <hes> set up a bank account in your name and fake it and you know but there are a lot of controls that a third party custodian protects an investor from but when it comes to private investments and private placements or private it investments in a in a piece of real estate or in a start up business or venture capital business or in some cases hedge funds those sir often checks that get written to the corporation because you're buying equity in the business or you're an but in most cases the the most sophisticated the ones will allow you to write the check to a third party and then have the third party redirect the funds into the investment and track the accounting of that investment is being done properly properly so some hedge funds and private placements that i've invested in and helped clients invest in the custodian fidelity or t._d. Ameritrade raid you will still take the money redirected to the investment and then track the performance of that private investment through third party account and that's just super. You're a professional. That's the most sophisticated way to invest even privately <hes>. You should never be writing a check to a person ever okay great. That's that's a great tip actually because i think you know in this world there are so many scams out there in it's happening every single day i mean from private investment real stage to these hedge funds and private equity and all that stuff so it's happening all over the place net sad man when saw loses you know a lot of their life savings over something like that i mean it's just it's not it's just super sad because most of this most of let's i'd say it's a hundred thousand dollars for most people to accumulate one hundred thousand dollars after taxes right after tax. It's it's several years as of work sometimes three to four years of work for people. It's like five years of your life for the average dentist. Even a hundred thousand could could represent if you think i mean just after tax. Money is always the place where this stuff happens. It hardly ever happens inside of a 4._0._1._k. Or like a qualified plan. It's it's always like this after tax money and that is really hard money to to to to accumulate. It's very difficult to get that money stotts but i mean you know. I think that's where you you've gotta. Do your due diligence really a deeper in not not it's not just about trusting the person but also also doing a little bit of research and just making sure what you're putting your money and of course the public markets. There is a little bit more transparency but even then stuff happens ends. I mean look at what happened to enron and and and there's a report you recently so things like that can happen the public market but with with very little chance as opposed to the private market to me. It's more likely to happen but i think that's where you really have to work with. Someone on that you can trust in you can really kind of do the due-diligence or you can have a team of people that are looking for you. I think that's where it does. Make sends to pay for advice is to not have you lose. Hundreds of thousands of dollars brocaded located a free consultation is super easy. So why haven't you done it yet. Just call eight three three d._d._s. Plan go to dennis advisors dot com and click book a free consultation then you can find a time when your calendar that works best for you so i hesitate we can help you take control of your financial future and find out how by going to dennis advisors dot dot com today well. I met through a few questions at you in that vein of like how to sniff out an adviser. I want to see if you which ones you think are the most host or what you <hes> what you would say about these questions. So how important is it that <hes> how how important important is compensation in in hiring an advisor. We talked to earlier about these three different different ways. You can compensate an adviser. I i don't. I've already shared my opinion but i want your honest opinion on this topic like is is there a right and wrong way to compensate financial advisor so i think in in my opinion guinean <unk> first of all i think a lot of people talk about like you know find someone that's as cheap as possible rate in and we kind of know that in dentistry you get what you pay for at the end of the day you find someone that knows what they're doing. They've been in the business for awhile they they have the right credentials against it. There's you know sometimes people say credentials don't mean much but they do at the end of the day because they've done their homework. If done you know a lot of their research they've done taken all the upper examinations to get to that step which means they put in the effort to get where they are because of the time kind of wooden so compensation it is very important and for me i think to me i feel like a combination of in advisory z. Like a flat fee. Maybe we put a fee in as a or project fi kind of thing yeah in doing a percentage of your assets. Let's now it would be nice you know in in the world where you're advisors kind of compensated based on their performance also and some of the some of those hedge funds they get into that where they're paid based on their performance. Some of the private equity gets like that. <hes> i think having having a world where they're compensated fairly for doing the work they're doing for you is is extremely important because him at makes them work harder for you. Feel like oh you know as a dentist. If i feel like i'm not getting properly from or the with their services for the procedures. I knew from my patients. You know i'm not going to be. He has happy as if i feel like i'm up really compensated or would i know because at the end of the day there are good dennis good bad dentist. There are people that take it allows ce <unk> invest a lot of money and then they're translating that skill set onto their patients versus people that might not be putting any money into some kinda hennessy in an chugging along doing fine but at the same time they can expect to make a lot of money if they're not knowledgeable enough the providing so it's it's occurring goes hand-in-hand with an mindset so i i think this is an important thing to pause on it and just talk about for a second because i think the assumption it kinda started with like john bogel in vanguard in the seventies and eighties saying saying like you should hire a financial adviser because there you can just invest in the market eliminate an adviser and then just get the market return like that's going to be higher than what you you could make if you hire someone to try to make you get more money like an active manager or something. There's a lot of confusion around this topic like tons john's because some financial advisers like me are saying i'm not getting paid a percentage on your account to make it like outperformed the market like i'm getting paid a percentage to do all of these financial planning jobs for you like i'm meeting estate planning attorney. I'm helping reduce your tax returns. I'm looking at your debt. Refinancing your debt. I'm like i'm doing all of these like jobs and you may not want me to do them all but the clients that hire us are are saying in exchange for you <hes> basically making sure my index portfolios are perfectly dialed in <hes> i wanna pay for my i financial planning through a percentage on my accounts but most people think that they're paying you a percentage so you can make their accounts get way way bigger than they could get on their own that that's partially true. Most vanguards research now shows that most financial advisers can add the right financial advisor can actually add returns to your account beyond what the average the average person does on their own but but there's this i think there's this misconception option a little bit like i've seen it sometimes in dental investment group you see a post to be like it's worth paying a financial advisor percentage because he can actively lee trader account and make it grow more than than the market and i feel like that is there's a lot of confusion around. Why would i pay a percentage on my account to someone. Can you respond to that and i just want to hear your reaction to that yes. I don't think it's necessarily you know you're trying to outperform the market every single year. What about those down. Here's where you need that advice on curtailing like how much downside risk you're gonna take and again. You talk about the comprehensive the roof view of your overall assets. I think that's where the what the key is reviewing. The tax returns reviewing what kind of returns you've been getting. I think what can returns are expected what your age is and then what about all these other kinds of funds out there right. I mean act or roth i._r._a.'s. There's still so many many people out there that don't know how to do that kind of it was set a set it up but they just don't have the know how to get started. It was from that so good and and some of that stuff like i said it needs to have a conference review because people will talk about estate finding right what about like when you get into your own reason fifties i mean should you be looking at long-term care invested. I mean think about it from yeah. Yeah really history of some disease that you know you're gonna be spending more money in the future it it healthier than someone that is very healthy your your your your <unk> typically kind of chicken that chance you're planning for the future but the problem is just by putting your money into some kind of index fund. It doesn't guarantee that you're gonna be ready for all the steps in the future. Yes having that comprehensive review. It really kinda. Allows you to talk to someone bounce ideas off of them. In figure out what can accounts shall be in what about real estate in all of that kind of stuff in some people in the really savvy states. People have nothing to do with it at all. It's not just about like how much money went has to invest. It's like what do you do with that money and what can of asset classes you money into so here's the easy to just put him in in index funds and someone says aid. I'm sixty years old in. I've got some money in the s. and p. Five hundred and might not be the right thing for them but the market says hey you can earn ten percent a year in the market <hes> in the s._p. By wondered so just keep doing that but that's not right though or something that's in their sixty s yeah yeah i think to the degree that you're paying any kind of fee on your investment account of any kind of percentage you. You should just be getting a lot of time back from your adviser like if you're going to do that like because betterment wealth front like robin hood like you can trade for free right now and you get good index funds and good index portfolios for like not any fee really fidelity's like paying you now almost like they've got like a their. They're crediting you. There's no expense ratios and their and so like there the market for just getting cheap index funds and investing is like it's not it's going to zero. There is no value in a broker intermediary. Just getting you funds anymore in my view. They think that most people don't realize that sometimes the benefit of hiring any professional adviser is the old call at free advice. You get ah on other topics especially when you're hiring a specialist. If i hire a specialist attorney that has like a lot of experience doing transitions sometimes he'll give me the most host like interesting business advice or overhead advice or management tip or supply chain recommendation just because he's in in the industry but he is not what you paid him for but man he just knows a lot about your career path and now i try to i feel like that people sometimes underestimate the value of that. I think generally people are just less likely to the people are too slow to hire a lot of good advisers. There's <hes> the right attorney the rights e._p._a. The right financial advisor the right consultant the right shrink personal coach. You know therapist okay like there's a lot of good good <hes> resources that really can just change your life yeah absolutely honestly i think one of the worst by that you don't we as individuals give people is as you're too young. Don't worry you know hiring a specialist but don't worry about hiring finish advise unit money money yeah. You're just a w. Two <hes> and fortunately that's not the case. I mean you've got to know what you're doing early on to have more bad financial independence later on in life you know so. It doesn't mean that you've gotta be. You've got to have half a million dollars in savings before you hire someone you can hire or someone relatively cheap. You don't have to spend a lot of rain because that advisers can understand that this is what you make your what advice that they're giving you is limited admitted nature based on what their financial conditions are. They're not going to charge us much at those to someone that had a much more complicated situation where maybe they have multiple practices we were they have a lot of real estate if they have a different kind of accounts in a that is a more complicated roach so italy man yeah so it just one of those things where i think people can benefit at any level <hes> and we just don't take advantage of that. Sometimes i was taught like i went through my a master's program in finance and one of the classes i took was <hes> well. I took classes in venture capital and the professor. They're really <music>. Influenced me a lot <hes>. He said the most successful entrepreneurs are the ones that reach out for advice the most frequently to the best people well and and i i really took that to heart and i thought you know what i'm never gonna assume i'm right. I'm going to always ask for multiple. Opinions is on any strategic thing i'm thinking about doing. I'm gonna get a financial adviser. I'm gonna get you know in the right attorney. I'm gonna get multiple attorneys that i use in select circumstances. I'm gonna get the right c._p._a. <unk> right consultant the right therapists right coach personal <hes> health advisor the right nutritionist right doctor the right dentist goodbyes irs like having a good financial. See yeah it you you put money into clinical see you gotta put money into pernicious yeah man dennis. Just love your dentist and pay him. Well came in your we gotta do a series together. You're so much fun for me to talk to <hes> so i. I'll let you leave everyone. The last word today may yeah you leave everyone to the last word so here's my my thing for people. You know. We have this wonderful. Oh group that has a lot of smart people but i still see that there's a lot of confusion on hourly people when approached their financial help in i think it's wise his <unk> each and every one of us to really evaluate in figure out if getting in touch with you know what about their financial health is a good idea for them. I think the answer technically should be or one hundred percent of us. It's a good idea because we can all use an independent voice independent opinion on on how we should approach your financial help because it is important because you know when you get from twenties thirties thirties forties sewn and so forth and you turn fifty six years old sixty years old old in you realize that i don't have enough saved up that sucks i mean that's that's crappy feeling in the world and i get that i get those messages all the time. I'm in my fifties. Fifties sixties and i still by myself that i'm gonna have to be working until seventy eight years old sometimes man and that's that's a bad feeling to have you know when you other people saying like oh man. I'm going to be forty years old tomorrow retiring thing <hes> yeah they they're going to be living in costa rica and maybe in a canoe but they are. They are retired at thirty four it anyway. I appreciate all that you're doing like you. Guys said you don't have to do this. You know like you're you've got your your dedicating a a lot of time to really improving financial literacy because you see a need and <hes> i mean i it. I'm sure it's i'm not saying and there's no like i just feel like it's a labor of love and a lot of ways. You know a lot of educators. Don't get paid for the education. They do at least not to the as we know so a lot of our school teachers and even college professors. They're the most capable and given the most they don't get compensated for all that teaching. They just do it because they love it and and i felt like i spent a lot of my time educating because i love education and i feel like you do the same and i appreciate all the time and i appreciate all the the members responses responses because i get a lot of feedback mafia-like thinking if i can implement disa- my practice or in my life you know i could be doing better in in its in. I think in the last year's my approach has changed a lot in after you obviously have been talking to you for a while and been talking to some other people that are super smart in their businesses in what they do so getting all that feedback and being able to implement that in your life is such a blessing. I mean i. I feel good about you. Know what i do not practice dentistry full time so so i don i don't plan on making this my whole career by these pledges <unk> so much fun elaborating with people like yourself that or out there open dennis daily day in day out bidding on time and effort into this and and at the end of the day you know that's that's your primary job seven. That's you should get compensated for the work you do. I mean it's it's the fair thing to do. <hes> so i do appreciate everything you do because i think you you'd open a lot. <music> is when it comes to some of the weird crappy stuff that goes on out there in because you know i i'm telling you if if i were to go over some undies messages in some of the stories i read. It's kinda sad that either it and get started early or day are in this predicament because they didn't take the steps to kind of get ready forward on the other hand. You know even people that feel down that there are years old. It's never too late to start either. I think that's the key is at. It's not that the young to get started. You can be any age to get started and really kind of turn things around and and become i yeah. I believe that man like i. I don't personally feel like success. In life is based on how much you accumulate and how much money you end up having what your net worth is. I don't correlate late network with intellectual capability or smartness. I think sometimes people just get lucky and our superwealthy and sometimes people just have bad luck and they really struggle what their money and and i don't want to say there's no correlation but like you can really be happy with your financial situation within a very short period of time a lot of it has to do with just setting some basic things up that make you feel like you've got some liquidity. You can relieve pressure. You can spend a money on some fun things but also that you're actually accumulating and saving that the the state of like just being financially healthy is more important important than getting to dislike five million dollar net worth that you wanna hit like you just need to get in the state of being fit like if you wanna get fit in the gym you can. It's hard. It's really hard but even if you're super overweight you know and struggling within a short period of time you can get to a place where your physical conditioning makes you you feel better. It doesn't mean you're winning like world record competitions but you're just bill and better and i feel like finances the same way man. You're just you get into the zone of like. I'm exhibiting good behavior and i'm in control. I'm organized. I moved in the right direction. That's enough for like if that's all it. Is your whole life and you never there are over wealthy still such a good feeling and i just want everyone to get to that point. It is a process and i think the the the biggest issue with a lot of us is that we just don't get started with that process. <unk> gotta say hey this <unk> making years resolution say we're gonna do this and then we'll just get started with that and that's why i'm still in business a sunny. It's just like you know the end of the day. I'm just i'm the guy that will finally mow your lawn if it if you're just struggling to get around to all right well thank you so much for taking your time. What did compliment you on one more thing. I think it's amazing how you're able to maintain a really positive tone in a group that is pretty diverse in terms of its personalities like yeah. I feel like you do a really good job of being a good diplomat in in a very diverse group of opinions some strong ones to dealing with the great. Well keep it out. Look look forward to doing it again soon and take so much time on soon. Thanks for having me.
Agriculture Department To Fix Disruptions In Nation's Food Supply Chain
"We've been questioning the US official trying to match the American food supply with food consumers. Visit almost any grocery store and you will see how that food chain has been disrupted. They're empty shelves. Even if food is in stores millions of newly unemployed people may have trouble paying agriculture secretary. Sonny Perdue has been talking up one part of the federal response. A plan to distribute food to families called the farmers to family food box program when after bar. Consumption is consumed outside the home. It's a dual track of production and processing for food service market versus the home consumer in grocery stores. So that commits a lineman. Would you have the shutdown? Very suddenly of institutional food settings such as restaurants schools colleges and others then that causes a misalignment in supply. And we've had the scrambled in order to try to readjust that in. This box is one of those things in which we tried to do so. It's a simple process. I guess the best analogy is. We're on a four lane interstate highway and two of those lanes become a blocked for flash or whatever reason we all can identify what happens after that. So you're trying to deal with this traffic jam because there's food that would have been going to a restaurant. Restaurant is closed. But somebody still wants to eat it. Do you get it into a grocery store into somebody's hands now. Why would a food box program for people who need assistance? Be The way to do that. This was a program that president trump asked me to put together three billion dollar program helping to re aligned and purchases food from bombers who were having to destroy that Good food because there's no market and create a really another market through our Nonprofits but at the same time you probably know there are advocates for the poor. Who think that there are simpler ways to do this? Why not just give people more money through? Snap the existing program to help people pay for food which is something that was done during the Great Recession. That may help one side of the equation. Steve does not help those farmers and producers who've grown food they cannot make the market because a supply chain they've been used to dealing with an institutional food market is no longer there obviously going to be advocates. Who always want to have more Money or more food available. We have been extremely flexible in any of these rules with snap benefits Food Service. The school feeding all those kinds of things. Usda is over backwards in order to provide flexibilities and all over the country you. I'm realizing your analogy with the highway is in some ways literal because we're talking about transporting food that had a particular route had a particular distributor and that system doesn't work and so it has to be moved by a different route and by different people. Are you confident you have chosen the right? Companies to create these distribution networks in some cases almost from scratch these are small and large food distributors. All over the country whose market is essentially disappear because their customers are shut down. We believe we have the best of the best obviously We're GONNA come to that list and see if we've missed we will go back and audit these firms to make sure they're doing exactly what they apply they do. Mister Secretary. Do you anticipate widespread food shortages in the coming months? And if so of what? No I don't see we track daily our plan openings. One of the challenges we add in protein meat poultry beef pork had been the closure of some of our processing plant there and We've had infections those plans that cause some temporary closures. Essentially all those plants are back open. We turn the corner and while some retailers are suggesting they may not have the degree of variety that they won't sad. We expect that to be cured very quickly. I do expect us to be back up to eighty five ninety percent reduction in probably a few days or week. What is the federal government doing to support companies that they've told under the Defense Production Act? They got to keep open. They gotTA keep producing meat but they have workers who are getting sick. What are they doing? Support the plant. What are they doing to take responsibility for the workers well first of all at uniform guidelines from CDC as well as Austria and worker safety people here recognized in the country be given the standard guidelines. We worked with local health authorities local elected officials as well as the company and the workers themselves to understand we provided equipment personal protective equipment. Say Shields Mask and other things into the plants there as well as testing where required to Hit the workers confidence. They're operating in a safe working environment. Secretary Perdue thanks for the time. Thank you have a good day sonny? Perdue is the US Secretary of Agriculture.
USDA Secretary Says Despite Plant Closures, He Does Not Anticipate Food Shortages
"We've been questioning the US official trying to match the American food supply with food consumers. Visit almost any grocery store and you will see how that food chain has been disrupted. They're empty shelves. Even if food is in stores millions of newly unemployed people may have trouble paying agriculture secretary. Sonny Perdue has been talking up part of the federal response. A plan to distribute food to families called the farmers to family food box program when after our consumption is consumed outside the home. It's a dual track of production and processing for food service market versus the home consumer in grocery stores. So that commits a lineman. Would you have the shutdown? Very suddenly of institutional food settings such as restaurants schools colleges and others then that causes a misalignment in supply. And we've had the scrambled in order to try to readjust that in. This box is one of those things in which we tried to do so. It's a simple process. I guess the best analogy is. We're on a four lane interstate highway and two of those lanes become a blocked for flash or whatever reason we all can identify what happens after that. So you're trying to deal with this traffic jam because there's food that would have been going to a restaurant. Restaurant is closed. But somebody still wants to eat it. How do you get it into a grocery store into somebody's hands now? Why would a food box program for people who need assistance? Be The way to do that. This was a program that president trump asked me to put together three billion dollar program helping to aligned and purchases food from bombers who were having to destroy that Good food because there's no market and create a really another market through our Nonprofits but at the same time you probably know there are advocates for the poor. Who think that there are simpler ways to do this? Why not just give people more money through? Snap the program to help people pay for food. Which is something that was done during the Great Recession? That may help one side of the equation. Steve does not help those farmers and producers who've grown food they cannot make the market because a supply chain they've been used to dealing with an institutional food market is no longer there obviously going to be advocates. Who always want to have more Money or more food available. We have been extremely flexible in any of these rules with snap benefits Food Service. The school feeding all those kinds of things. Usda is over backwards in order to provide flexibilities and all over the country you. I'm realizing your analogy with the highway is in some ways literal because we're talking about transporting food that had a particular route had a particular distributor and that system doesn't work and so it has to be moved by a different route and by different people. Are you confident you have chosen the right? Companies to create these distribution networks in some cases almost from scratch these are small and large food distributors. All over the country whose market is essentially disappear because their customers are shut down. We believe we have the best of the best obviously We're GONNA come to that list and see if we've missed we will go back and audit these firms to make sure they're doing exactly what they apply they do. Mister Secretary. Do you anticipate widespread food shortages in the coming months? And if so of what? No I don't see we track daily our plan openings. One of the challenges we add in protein meat poultry beef pork had been the closure of some of our processing plant there and We've had infections those plans that cause some temporary closures. Essentially all those plants are back open. We turn the corner and while some retailers are suggesting they may not have the degree of variety that they won't sad. We expect that to be cured very quickly. I do expect us to be back up to eighty five ninety percent reduction in probably a few days or week. What is the federal government doing to support companies that they've told under the Defense Production Act? They got to keep open. They gotTA keep producing meat but they have workers who are getting sick. What are they doing? Support the plant. What are they doing to take responsibility for the workers well first of all at uniform guidelines from CDC as well as Austria worker safety people here recognized in the country be given the standard guidelines? We've worked with local health. Authorities local elected officials as well as the company and the workers themselves to understand we provided equipment personal protective equipment say shields mask and other things into the plants there as well as testing where required to Hit the workers confidence. They're operating in a safe working environment. Secretary Perdue thanks for the time. Thank you have a good day sonny? Perdue is the US Secretary of Agriculture.
Sony To Make, Donate Face Shields To Japan Hospitals
"You're listening to the news of this. Are Africa business. Radio Sunny Course said on Friday. It's manufacture and donates medical face shilstone hospitals in Japan amid worries by the visibility of protective equipment for healthcare workers with the current a virus pandemic the Japanese technology and entertainment company said. It's has begun producing face shields. Re purposed from ice shields used by Sergeants SA- view images. Sonny's Tree d medical monitors sunny said to also help mass produce ventilate says designed and developed by medical. Good smarter a coma. Medical Industry cooperated production is due to begin in July. We've plans to manufacture five hundred units by the end of September. And that was the news. At this time on Africa Business Radio you can continue to listen live online at. Www Dot Africa business radio come Ovalles and APP. Thank you for listening.
Mason and Ireland HR 2: Bucks Or Clips?
"I THIS IS A. You've been waiting all week for a chance to win. Fifth row seats to see Lakers Bulls on April. The eighth and now is your chance people lined up ready for the fifth row. Fridays quiz a question for Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday and something we said today. This is the best prize we got. Yeah on the station and sunny in Palmdale is going to get the first crack at it high sunny. You're on seven ten. Espn how you doing you. Good man all right man here. We go all right Monday. I posted a twitter poll to determine what between me and John whose mother that is correct. Smarter Tuesday sunny which infamous business does Mason think won't last much longer in this era hooters absolutely correct number three. How many did John Get right in the birthday game? Carax's this guy's this two more in your home. What did Mason say was the best action movie of this century? Check your check your notes. We'll give you a delayed five. Second Count File Mad Mex. Feel Oh yeah you know you are prepared taken? That's all right sunny. Bring it home right here. Who said that? He is serving cocktails on waiters island. Sunny it just happened. Sonny five four way giving give them a little extra second and a half notes from today. Why couldn't you ask what the West go on? Smell like. Take against. Take a shot. Who is serving cocktails on? Waiters Island. he said. Give me your name come on bomber. So sorry he was clearly listened that the second week in a row that it's it's so painful it's like they know what you guys are going to ask what he walked it right to door right there. Got Right on my Gosh Ryan Chino Ryan you there. Yeah Okay here we go. I posted a twitter poll to determine what between me and John Smarter. What BUSINESSES MASON? Think won't last much longer in this era twitter. We said twitter right what he said twitter twitter. That was wrong. That's wrong okay. Wow that's an opportunity for David Seamy Valley. Hey David yes sir. Okay Doors Open here. We go who posted a twitter poll to determine what who what you Wayne Mason posted a twitter poll to determine what about. Who's Martin? Who's very much? Thanks for what business does Mason think won't last much longer in this era hooters. Hooters is the name we're looking. How did John? Get right in the birthday game on Wednesday nineteen what did Mason say was the best action movie of this century? Mad Max Zeroed and who said on. Today's show that he is serving cocktails on waiters island. I just got off work but I'M GONNA take a gas. Okay Thinking Lakers Caruso no wow. I thought this was an eas. GimMe this is like a two foot. Putt David in Monrovia. The door is open David. Are you ready? I'm ready to go. I posted a twitter. Poll determine what between me and John who smarter what Businesses Mason think won't last much longer in this era hooters. How many did John? Getting the birthday game on Wednesday. Nineteen what did Mason say? Was the best action movie of this century. Mad Mac and who said on today's show that he is serving cocktails on waiters island. Gave mcmanamon. Yes good job and David. I bet heyday. Okay so David. Take me in your inside your head when you were listening to these other guys. Did you think we would never get to you? I thought there was no sham. There was no way you needed to guys to miss that last question after the first guy fluid lever. I've been taking lake. You will not believe you have to McMenamin note. Oh I've been listening right now and I have. No rage does awesome. You'RE GONNA love it. Man. You Got Okay so David you know that Michael and I do the Games from like the twentieth row. You're going to be in the fifth row. You'RE GONNA better seats than us. So you're going to be up in the chicks view. Yeah and you're going to be down to my right like right across from the visitors match. It's great you like everybody who goes like can't believe you'll be blown away man you'll be blown away. Who Are you? Who are you going to take with you? I'M GONNA take my friend. Mario with me. Excellent we'll couple of questions for you. Which which game is more important to you? Winning tonight or winning Sunday Clippers for sure. No question a mile on this one. They're the redheaded. Yes they are and we're going to beat them into submission. Let's David I'm really excited for. I'm GonNa put you on hold and Lindsay's going to get your info. Okay thanks man. Thank you good job that. I would have thought that after we asked all five of the Nice guy gets it. Yeah totally at four. O'clock hour just happened. Well good for him you know. I thought the fifth question was the easiest five he bought it was. I thought it was a Gimme. I thought it was an absolute Jimmy. Hey Monday so we're talking about the best price got down so it may change. Start starting Monday best price. We got at four twenty. Which is my favorite time of Day at four twenty? We're going to give out the money. Madness work then. The five o'clock hour. We'll cue you up to call the what number caller is it Lindsay. Some number caller. I think it's sixteenth. We'll tell you on Monday. We'll tell you well have all the details. You be the right caller. Have the word and you will win a pair of Lakers tickets. Plus you will jump into the money machine which will be here on Saint Patrick's Day and win up to seven hundred and ten dollars in cash so lakers tickets and up to seven hundred. Ten dollars in cash in the seventy. Spn Money Machine on Saint Patrick's Day. Listen for the money. Madness word Monday at four twenty PM. Okay so mace some questions about tonight all right when these teams met in December. Okay the bucks one. They've only played one other time. The Bucks one one eleven to one. Oh four now we've been talking about the fact that Jaanus made a season high actually a career high five three pointers. But if you look at them like those fantasy leagues you're in they add up everything okay. So in that Game Janas had thirty four points. Eleven rebounds and seven assists so fifty two total in point three bands out. Assist all right. Anthony Davis had thirty six points ten rebounds and five assists fifty one total points. Yeah one lesson. Youngest Lebron had twenty one. Twelve twelve forty five total. Yup points is this. Those are all three big numbers who wins that battle tonight points rebounds assists total among them up so in in this is Lebron the first game jaanus fifty to eighty fifty one. Lebron forty-five you think it flip. I think it's Lebron Lebron has demonstrated like he did in the Zion Games when he really really when the when the light. The spotlight is bright. And there's a central focus. Everybody was talking about Zion. Lebron showed them up. I think Lebron is gonNA show up you honest tonight. I think it's a D and here's what really okay. What's all anybody's been talking about for the last three days leading up to this game jaanus versus liberal correct? Did it like just yeah? It's a battle between the two leaders guys. Yeah who's getting no love in these conversations? That's true. Did you start getting a little. Anthony Davis IS GONNA KEEP IN MIND. When these guys met the first time he played the whole game he played forty three minutes. Thirty six points. Ten rebounds five assists those are monster numbers. I think he's going off tonight. I think Anthony Davis is going to have a huge game. The it is a pick em game in Vegas. It's actually I'm I'M GETTING AT MINUS TWO NOW. Lakers minus two. I just checked Lakers. Our favorite Lakers minus two is the active spread. Okay so I. I think the Lakers then remember the first time when they met the first time. The Lakers were in the fifth game of a five game road trip. Yup this time Milwaukee is on the back end of a road trip and the game is at Staples Center Lakers really had one bad quarter. It was in the second quarter and I think. Now that the Lakers game on their own turf the Lakers one nine out of ten the bucks of seven out of Eight. I mean this this. Is Ali Frazier? These are the two of the hottest teams in the League but the the bucks have been on the road since March first they played at Charlotte at Miami. They went home for one game now. They're Atalay at Phoenix at Denver. So then the dominion of playing five at a six on the road. Yep I think the Lakers are GonNa win tonight. I think it's GonNa be close and I would not turn off the game. No matter who takes an early lead. The Lakers have twelve times this year. Come back from a double digit deficit in the game in Milwaukee they trailed by nineteen at halftime and in the second half they played great and outscored them by Thirteen and then ended up losing. That's GonNa make twelve hundred losing my sight so it's I was running numbers on this game and the Lakers in the second half outscored so picture this everybody. John has got a hundred and seventy six inch. Tv Yep he's got a massage chair. Yep within the chair. Doing I believe it. Your Jonah was on the crazy massage chair where you sink into it and then it massages your entire body is actual people working inside the work. Different bodies watching. What were you watching you? Watching the bachelor or close. Vander Palms S. V. You're watching bander Van Breen oversized steadying. The bucks the Lakers. Yeah and coming up with ridiculous stuff like this. I can't find. The spread for Sunday Lakers clippers. I can't yet maybe waiting for tonight. Should be somewhere. It's a clipper home game out should mean nothing. I'm going to six in a yeah. They're waiting to see if the Lakers win tonight. Set that thread if the Lakers win tonight. I think it'll be pick him. Yup if the Lakers lose tonight it'll be like clippers by two but okay so I wanted to point out. I one mythical money last night did you. Did you do what you bet money? I had five thousand dollars on Steph curry over the eighteen and a half point and he had like twenty three twenty. Three one five five grand on that. Mythical Money Lindsey L. A. N. Z. E. DO you have the totals on mythical money. Are you giving keeping up with that? Of course what we got. Steve Mason has one hundred and twenty six thousand dollars. John you have one hundred in seventeen thousand. I have one hundred fifteen thousand all right so we're all on the black. I'm about live about fun. One hundred thousand all right so I'm about to get paid thirty seven thousand dollars right back time star eighty right back. I dropped time with. Drew brees drew brees. Says he's going back to breathe doesn't know squat drew brees says he's going back Brady's going back who? Who did I see? Tj Zodda zero chance Stays with the Patriots. Zero not point one zero Yup. Lots of Tennessee vibe though a lot of Tennessee coming up next fast track I let me tell you about legalzoom. It's still early in the year. But if you run a small business you know twenty twenty is gonna fly by. It's already mark. I'm going to interrupt you. We got a tweet from sunny. The very first guy. I'll feel so bad for zoo. Was that answered the first four. Quite he says tell the winner. You're welcome for having me pave the way on the first four quiz right sunny sunny. We're rooting for you. We gave you extra time for time. Sonny Sonny if you ever meet Dave McMenamin you should. You should remember him forever. Remember that really really quick update for tonight's game of that. Greg Bergman just sent Mace. You are in the good seats and Ramona is in the third row. I'm in the good seats. Yeah yeah you got a better seat than remote. That's unbelievable. I love on Sunday. Ramona's it's next to bomber and you go to the hajj hockey. I don't interrupt me again when I'm talking about legalzoom this is this is. This is a big. We used to have small business. We back in the day and we had to pay an arm and a leg. Some attorney to incorporate us. I'm serious. It cost we. Didn't we almost went bankrupt out of the gate? But you can use legalzoom to make sure you're set up for success over the past nineteen years legalzoom help more than two million. Americans start their businesses by incorporating forming. Llc's and more but even after you set it up legalzoom can help you out with all that stuff. Like lease agreements changing tax laws reviewing contacts Mason. I paid a normally for all that stuff. Legalzoom handles it for you. These are the kinds of hurdles that take time away from you growing your business. Don't let it happen. Legalzoom's network of independent attorneys and tax pros can provide advice to address that and more and you'll never get charge by the hour since legalzoom is in a law firm go to legalzoom dot com today. Enter the Promo Code Ireland in the press box in the press box thinking the hockey prospects in the box at checkout for special savings that's legalzoom dot com code word. Ireland legalzoom where life meets legal fast-track next ESPN la. I here we go. It is time for fasttrack little bit earlier because we anger live to staple center at five forty five. I'm on one side of the coin. Is the Milwaukee Bucks? Other side of the coin. The Lakers who was going to win this game tonight. It is going to be close. The bucks are an excellent team but Lakers at home have won nine of their last ten overall. I'm going Lakers by three. Lakers by four Lakers by four. That is a very funny coin as an actual point spread numbers on it all right. It was announced last week that ESPN reporter. Maria Taylor who you just found out you'll be sitting next to the game. Yeah we'll be giving the spring. Commencement address at her Alma Mater. The University of Georgia cool. I'm curious if you were asked to give the commencement address at either. Mommy high school where you're in the hall of Fame Yup or at Bowling Green the Harvard of northwest Ohio. What did you do it? And if so what would your main message be? I would love to do it. Okay I would love to do it either. Mommy High School. Whereas you mentioned I am in the hall of fame or Bowling Green State University. Which seems to ignore me Except they ask for money a lot. You Win more than Rob Blake. Who's the other famous Los Angelino Ronald turn the sizes and other one? Yeah My message would be to evolve. My message would be that whoever you are today must evolve for you to be successful both in your personal life and in your professional life especially in your professional life live in a culture and in a country that is rapidly changing because of Technology. And you never know you raise the same. We have that story earlier about this deal that the dodgers cut with this company fuel. Stir well if that takes off gas stations could go away like imagine if fuel becomes like ubereats like to your house and fill your literally evolve or die right and that's really the message. You have to continue evolving as society culture technology changes. That would be my speak mine. My main point would be if I gave the commencement of either Cornyn Omar Highschool Ucla Ta. I can't believe you've ever been never been asked to do it at Corona Delmira's fuse until they ask Bill MacDonald. Who's older than Bailey Mac? But in Billy's advice would be never grow have fun. Yeah which is great advice. He's Peter Pan But no my advice would be fine as you know especially for a college graduate going out into the workplace. Find something to do that. You're passionate about if you take a job just to work or just for money you will burn out. Find some like thinking about me today. I get to come here and talk sports with you for three hours. Which would have done anyway right. And they paid me. Yep Tonight I'm going to a Laker game describing what happens which I would have been doing at home. And they're paying me. Yeah now at some point this way it's GonNa crash but until it does. I'm having a ball Rydin Yup and that's what you gotTa do find something you love and chase that I if I was Corona del Mar High School. I would get on the phone. Eight seven seven seven ten. Espn and call. John Ireland right now and say please ways come into our commencement why why can't do it. Why because I'll be busy in the NBA Finals? Absolutely right absolutely right night with a finals. Preview Sunday is International Women's Day in addition to the with the Clippers is international women's Day. Okay now aside from your personal relationships like your wife and your mom and boss Betty pantsuit and new producer Lindsay. Who is the most impressive woman you can think of That is a great question is the most impressive now. Is this somebody that I do have to know her personally? It could be like somebody. Somebody big somebody famous okay. Because I came out of the TV news world and I worked in TV news. And I know how insanely cutthroat it is. And how unfair? It is to women. The fact that Oprah Winfrey survived that world and went on to become a billionaire where I guarantee you from the second she started. They told her she was either too black or too heavy or too. These women are constantly criticized for their appearance from what they wear and yet like I have. I have a ton of respect for women like my friend Pat Harvey who has been in business for thirty years like the smartest woman I know like that I personally know. But that's who popped into my head how about you operas definitely without question on my list. I think she's a May as you said the world she came from. But also you know I. Listen to an oprah winfrey meditation every morning before just before I get out of bed and I love the fact. She lives by the philosophy that every day. You can make someone else's Day if you just think about it correct and she does it. Yeah good for her and she's manifested an amazing life for herself and I find her to be unbelievably impressive in A. You know although I don't like to get political on the show I do think Michelle. Obama is an awfully impressive woman. Very Good Yeah Lindsey. What about you knowing? You just said that my first thing that came to mind you are GonNa Make Fun of me and Sam Kissing but but Ramona because Ramona's a very very inspirational person for females in the sports business in general but especially in broadcasting the way she like you know even though she was a couple of seconds late coming in here because she just did her sportscenter hit two radio okay. I think that's a great Joyce Lindsay. You don't Ramona. Has that not not just other women don't have but other men don't have. She has an absolutely so you and I but she she takes it to another level. She's a tireless work ethic. She's working from the time she wakes up in the morning and go to bed tonight at two o'clock and she's got a husband and a kid. Yeah she'll get up and do it again tomorrow and I have. I have a ton of respect for people like that. Yep Yep that's our whole act you and me we just do you know. We're always working always working so if you're grinding young. You're always working chances. Are you know people like when people ask me? What's the best piece of advice you could give me if I want to be you later in life and my my one sentences? Stay humble and don't get out work. Don't get worked. That's it absolutely. Be Thankful for what you get and get out were. I don't think I find Ramona. I mean she's obviously one of my best friends but I find her to be unbelievably impressive in what she's done and what she's accomplished. I knew when she was writing about girls volleyball for the Daily News and now look yeah. That's what I'm into and I will say this. I know a ton of people who went to cal and she is the most impressive person ever to come out of the University of California out of county. You have better seats than her. Tonight at the Lakers game. I want you to turn around a few times to Ramona. And and and look like squint. Like you can't see her. Who Do I know you are? You is that Ramona Becca. The faculty at Eastern Washington University wanted to know if having sports programs was cost effective. So they commissioned a report. Get the report. Analyze the cost of the athletic programs to be around twelve to fourteen million per year but then concluded it had quote no positive impact on our student enrollment retention or recruitment. And this is what school eastern. Washington Washington was commissioned by the Faculty Senate and has now been sent to the eastern Washington administration. The administration has now said they don't plan to pay attention to this Roy. Listen to it right and I'm glad they didn't because I would argue exactly the opposite of what the report sets right without sports. I wouldn't hardly know any schools I never would have heard of Gonzaga or bowling green or Penn State Syracuse or the University of Miami. Plus if you have a full college experience you gotTa Have Sports. The only reason I know that eastern Washington exist is because cooper up yeah. Colin Coward went exactly for people that are supposed to be smart. Isn't this report. Kind of stupid it is. It is stupid and I think there's a certain intellectual elite at universities who think there's too much focus too much attention paid to sport but as we always say it is the front porch of every university. It reminds me of the time you and I went to the AFC championship game. And I think it was nineteen ninety-four. The chargers went to Pittsburgh. That's right and you and I went back to Pittsburgh and the jets was Dennis Gibson tipped the ball. Yeah and Tony Martin had and and and I remember. I called my news director. Dick Tuna God. Rest his soul. He was news director in L. A. And since passed away his new senior great guy and soon as the chargers beat them. I went I called him and he was in his office. And I said I said Dick. You've got to be ready for this. The city is going to go crazy. The chargers have never been in the Super Bowl because John. I love you but it's just a football game that night. Yeah you and I were able to get out. We didn't fly home till the next day that night. The chargers had seventy five thousand people at Jack Murphy Stadium when their buses got back and they had to bring the buses down a ramp just so these people could stand in in the city. Went crazy weeks. Sports generates it. What it does it brings everybody together and it doesn't matter what your political party is or if you're black white yellow team. You're all rams fans or dodgers. You know what you're GonNa do is all that charge just makes me want to go down to Qualcomm Stadium and watch him play this year. We'll for one game. I'll do it with all right. Excellent fast track. Show me your lightning bolt all right John. My current weight is the lowest it has been in twenty five Manziel in. What is it one ninety two? Oh you're getting you're getting near me. I am getting near you now. My Goal Weight for the last year has been one eighty five. I started at two seventeen. Okay do you think I can get to one eighty five by April the first there's a vaca- in there. Oh that's GONNA kill Ya. It's going to be tough. That's going to kill you but I think during the vacate I walk a lot. I do my you know. You don't think I matter fact Lindsey all know five grand mythical money I'm gonNA bring a scale in here on April first. I say Mason will be north of one eighty five. Am I going to win that? Bet I will counter. You Bet. I'll tell you it's GonNa make. Yeah Okay Five. Grand seven pounds seven pounds in three weeks. I will starve myself so that I don't lose any. Here's the thing you know how you can win it. Yeah you go medifast. It's over you win. In a Lancia. He'll get down to like one eighty but I don't think you'll do it on vacation. Vacation makes a tough benefits. Lindsay is a Diet Lindsey. We have both done. I lost seventeen pounds in eighteen days. Lindsay on by doctors. It's unbeliever the right side of this argument if it kills me. I'm going to beat John. Scott there you go yeah. I'm I hope. I hope I lose my bet inspires. You always seven ten grand that loud I like. Now you're gonNA see now because you won't WanNa let you down for Lyndsey down. What are you putting on it? I will okay. I will put five thousand dollars on me. Getting one only one on on what would be the wrong side of this break yourself. Daniela Lindsey down now. I think you're GONNA make but I'm going to stick with the bet on less than a month all right. Mason and Ireland seven ten. Espn one just text. Me said there's absolutely no way that I will weigh one. Eighty five on April. The I I. I think now that you've put this out there. That was a very smart move. Because you'll be letting yourself down. You'll be letting Lindsey down. You'll be letting these Steve Mason fans Mike you're going to do and I'm GonNa lose that Ireland it's two fouls charity makes. We don't talk politics on the show anymore but I have somewhat of a generic political question that do not think you'll mind over the weekend really over the last week up Pete. Buddha judge ended his campaign for president. Tom Steiner Michael Bloomberg Elizabeth Warren and they gave up camera Harris Cory Booker. Who He and Castro bunch of Peop-. Yeah we still don't know who the Democratic nominee will be. Here's a question. Do you think the vice presidential nominee is one of these people who ran and didn't win or will it be somebody new that we haven't heard of yet on the Republican side. We know to be president trump and vice president pence. That's going to be the ticket so on the Democrat side. One of these people that dropped out eventually end up being the nominee. I Would Not Rule Out Elizabeth Warren. I think she'd be excellent for secretary of Education. She was a professor at but I still suspect that the ultimate nominee may choose stacey. Abrams from people here like stuff about her. Yeah but it's you know it's fascinating you really do it regardless of what party or did not have a woman or person of color on a democratic ticket and you know it's weird. No matter what party you belong to I. I actually admire anybody. Who who has the wherewithal to put their entire life on hold and try this? Try and run for president. Because think about it you you take everybody with you and the minute you quit. They're all out of a job. Yeah so it's good. It's hard and I respect anybody who goes for that. You know it's funny there's Do you know the Coen brothers movie no country for old manager. This is still a country for old. Men are not presently is going to be a seventy eight year old white man. Yeah apparently false tack Nicole Enda Age Forty. One became the first man ever traverse and active volcano by highwire when he across the eighteen thousand foot wide mouth of hell crater atop the Masaya volcano in Nicaragua. The stunt took the Sarasota Florida native around thirty minutes. During which he had to navigate noxious fumes and unpredictable wind gusts and of course the rolling lake of lava below however not. Everybody was impressed. We'll end is feeling the heat on social media for wearing a safety guard during the crossing. Apparently he says. Abc made him wear the harness. Now Clinton Yates came by the studio the other night while it was going on. He was mesmerized. By the whole thing. I was excited. I was watching on periscope. He texted me later to say it. Lost all drama. Because he wore the safety. Harness isn't walking across a volcano enough to be impressive. We were rooting for the stakes of having actually fall into a pit of fire. Let me explain this for anyone who has ever worked in television. Yes there's a Coronado Bridge San Diego very famous. Yeah so one day. A bungee jumping company came out right and one of their guys was going to Bungee. Jump off the Coronado Bridge. Yep and I wanted to do it as part of the story. I thought that would be. I would do the whole story on him and at the end of it we would both jump off the bridge. Okay and knows I. Is this where this story's going and so I said it's the talk for? This is a great idea. This is GonNa be awesome and I said Dr mentioned it to the news director or do I do it and just apologize later right. He goes well. If you don't mention I you might get fired and so I said okay. I'll mention to him. I and I told them my plan was and he goes. It's a great idea. It's a great visual. If you do it you're really as we cannot legally cover you. Yeah because it. Get your your. Your family could sue the station and win right. He said that's what this was. Abc Can't put that on television while. Enda falls into the volcano. Just wait a second. We watched evil knievel drive over twenty trucks or whatever. It is on his motorcycle. He didn't have a safety harness. What's different I think he must have either signed a waiver. Or it's too litigious now that they won't even let you sign a waiver change. Yeah I think the whole thing is easier way of say impressive drive. I'm not unimpressed. With Nick. Willing to that. He put on a safety harness. It's still a ballsy but I guess it's the threat of falling that made the stakes really high false tied Lindsay. I'm GONNA you pick. Are you ready? We're GONNA in this week with either? The Uber facts game or the alumni. Game which one you want. Which one is the Uber Facts? On again I give you four facts. Three of them are real ones fake alumni game. Is I give you all night? Okay we'RE DOING THE ALUMNI GAME. Here we go. I did well at the alumni Here we go eight is. I'm going to give you guys a person that went three people that I went to the same school. If the first person of four points wins you get it on the? I guess you get to Lindsey Ready. You get the first one Joel. Mchale the former host of talk soup and and the lead on community. Joel McHale when you know where you went. And why no good guess funds Taylor wrap the rams safety do man University of Texas. No Mace Warren Moon Washington University Washington. And Steve. From Joel McHale. I'm not sure what he didn't start with you. Football tied into their futch. Amy Poehler from Saturday night. Live fame very funny. Guess Notre Dame Notre Dame could gas no mace jared Dudley from the Lakers Arizona State. No Lindsey Matt Ryan. The quarterback of the Falcons Boston College in colleges correct and Lindsey is on the board. All right next one up mace. You are I Jack Lemmon. The great actor laid actor Jack. Lemmon Illinois no Lindsey. Steve Balmer owner of the Clippers Stanford no fuss Jeremy Lin. A Harvard. Harvard is right. And it's a tie everybody's got a point. Wow so jack. Lemmon went to Harvard Steve Bomber. And so did Jeremy Lin Lindsey Guy Fieri the chef Michigan no offense Randall Cunningham. Lv you're correct. Michael Punches has to all right. You can win it if you get this Bradley Cooper who Penn State. No really I was also thinking Mace. Ivanka TRUMP DONALD's daughter the president's daughter she went to. And this is Undergrad. Undergrad yeah she went to Yale. No good guests. Lindsey Alan Iverson Georgetown. Georgetown is it Lindsay to punch to Mason one aright. Mace Robert Redford. He went to take a guess. Colorado two points on that. How'd you sundance son all very good okay? So now. Mason goes from last place to first Mason. Three Lindsey to funds to Lindsey. You get this and you win it. Okay Shakira. I have no idea but I'm GONNA guess Miami no fun Mar Carmen from CSI UCLA. Ucla's direct quarterback alright so funchess in Mason one correct. They win it. Lindsey has two points for the win. Jason witten cowboys tidy sum witten. God I feel like I should know that Arizona no Mace Tobias Harris from the sixers to the same school as Jason Witten Illinois. No Lindsey Peyton manning starting to see Tennessee okay everybody three points any right. January right answer wins it. Who did I say Jason Witten to Lindsey? Mace you go I. That's the worst position. Okay while love it former husband of Julia Roberts and singer Lyle Lovett Arkansas. No Lindsey Alex Caruso from the Lakers. I'm GONNA Guess Texas. Oh No oh Johnny Very hard alumni gags all those to all three of you. Good job you were so close you go. Ten X is from there album code next. We're going to do something cool. We are going to do some cross talk before it gets dark live from inside staple said go across the street to get ready for the bucks and Laker was he able to get Michael to show up fifteen minutes early for the game. I'm betting no Mason Ireland rolls on next seventy SPN and it's time to head over to staple center doing it early. Because tonight is the biggest game of the Year Alive Lakers bucks seven thirty tip off pre game. Show set to start in fifteen minutes with Alan Slough and Michael Thompson Allen. I don't know the answer. This by assuming Michael has yet to show up for his. Six o'clock shift. Am I right? What do you guys think? The chances that empties to my right or the chances. Mt Is wandering somewhere around like center downstairs. Having an argument with someone in the media room about who is the greatest center in the sixties but he will be up there shortly. So what's the environment inside? Staples Center so you guys think. I'm on back area. These guys bracket blowers late. Yeah no I don't believe any of US actually said that I kind of hinting at it regularly. You were down there. He's black be there but he'll be late. No it has to do with you being black and it's everything to do with you being Bahamian you even own a watch because you guys forced me here on an island time. Aren't you have to come back from the days you're right? Hey so Michael. What's it like working with Alan Sleep? Well you got to be prepared. It's like working with Pat Riley. You gotta come prepared you know. The man is by the books. He's very meticulous. He's got every number every stat. Every strategy down pat like Pat Riley does. So I'm I'm feeling play working with Pat Riley. Thank God you're there to loosen up a little bit. I try but he doesn't. He doesn't even who buckwheat is. Now I was getting Michael is going to ask you of all the famous people. You have discovered that sleep has no idea who they are. What's the one that pops to the top of the list of the little rascals spiky stymie no idea who they were yep no idea guys? Larry and curly on. Who will pay three stooges? Hey sleep with. What did you think was going to happen when we brought you on from across you really expect it to be all the sudden pre game mode. Alan. No no no no. I know. I'm well aware now. We're going to talk about things. Have nothing to do with the game and a lot of things. I know nothing about prepare. That is not true Allen. I want to know all right. Ask Me this earlier. Okay if you if you take points assists and remands okay jaanus. Ad Lebron who has the highest total number tonight? Jaanus A de la Vina first game. The first Game Janas had fifty three eight hundred fifty two and Lebron forty-five go out on a limb on this one. I'M GONNA GO Anthony Davis. Oh Yeah I'm an. Mtc talked about a ton. And I know that we sit here and the conversations between the honest and Lebron Johnson ad. Tonight it's Anthony Davis on Sunday for me. I know what Lebron's going to do but these this is johnny. You said this to biggest games of the year. He had the biggest game so far this year. Under this spotlight. I WANNA see as much. Anthony Davis and Bragg cabinet because arguing today better player I said. Ad Over Janas because eighty has more skills. What are you guys say Wade? He's better shooter. They're both elite defend rush. I don't know that that Jaanus is pretty damn good. Can't shoot like a d but he has a weakness. Michael I think a more complete you layer on with you but I will say this. Is there a more unguardable player in the NBA? Davis is name is James Harden. Who'S GONNA IN FURNACE? Just if you look at a game after game and you guys obviously at all these games is producing more consistently than A. D. and Yeah Michael the best player in the day. Bilas a DIS Benon coachie. No all right Dave there now. He's listening. No the funny thing is the last day so the last time. Dave was listening he called. Mason to complain about me not realizing that I was sitting next to Mason while he was complaining about me but Michael I think Lebron is the best player in the world. It's the most complete blessed that'd be still has the best package of skills. Yes but doesn't the fact that we own Jaanus can't shoot right the fact that he figures out a way to score thirty points a game without a shot doesn't that mean he's unguardable well asks the Toronto Raptors what they do. They build a as as k Stan van Gundy Long Michael. Do you think the Lakers try that tonight or save got a secret game plan to they save it for the final tonight because it will work again on on on. Jewish. Because he ain't gonNA starship Kevin Durant too. It's not. It's not a secret game plan. It's the same. Don't plan that Miami ran on them. You build a wall. That's the way you'll and you say all right. Let's see if you can make five three. I was GONNA say macy at five threes in that last one. Don't you want him taking that many threes again? You'd have to take chances. La The average is out. And I think mt when you say between those two players there is a rawness to Janas. You know he as great as he is. He's not somebody that you can depend on eighteen. Footer or twenty foot and I think John that that's kind of what makes them special that he still finds ways staggering. I agree the craziest thing about us. I think is and we talk about AIDS. Production Janas Product. Jaanus is thirty and fourteen. A game on average in an average of just thirty one minutes per game. He's averaging thirty one minutes per game. All of his production is coming so fast hitting the other night he had that forty twenty and five game five blocks and he only played thirty one minutes. Say by the way Michael. Is it true sleeper told us last night? You picked the clippers to win on Sunday. Yeah it's a floor to know against this anything that's going to change Change in hopefully the Lakers are proved me wrong. I want to be proven but right. Now the what six in a row and you know they're going to be pumped up and ready for that Game Ireland word. We've one nine ten. We're about to beat the best team in the NBA. We're coming in riding. A high and the Lakers are sick of hearing about the clippers discussion. Like a bug. What's wrong with you right? But they keep saying this just another game as a Charlatan town tonight or on Sunday. J. John Would you think you guys interviewed Avery Bradley? Right after the gaming it's Philly. Mt You brought up dialed in man. He was about that. Didn't you feel like you? I I felt like this doesn't happen too much but I felt like you know he was speaking for the team or no. We're ready for the bucks. Come Friday they better be because they showed downplayed in Milwaukee data just another game. We're playing the Orlando Match Michael. Did you guys used to do that? Beckons fulltime days. So at Portland Circle Boston's Circle Utah Karl Malone and John Stockton new. Who's driving that Michael? Why aren't they circle in the game? Social media everybody wants to be social media. How what does that mean social media? Everybody wants to be cool. Everybody who lives rand is the brand. Is You lost to the clippers? That's terrible why would you want that to me? Your brand did you see the cover of on Vanity Fair with James Harden and Russell Westbrook. Everybody wants to be a model now and be cool with the Lakers. Not Circling the game against the clippers. Such as that like every games I disagree. I think the Lakers get the seriousness of this weekend. It's going to be a very good weekend for the Lakers now. Michael let's get into this and Youtube Allen. I've been saying all along that I think it was going to be New Orleans that the Lakers are gonNA play in the first round. They had an easy schedule. They they were playing well they Michael. They've had a terrible week. They can't beat anybody. They lost a game at home to Minnesota. Without Karl Anthony towns. I now think they're too far back and have too many teams ahead of them. The team. I'm now thinking is going to get the eight is Portland. Am I right or wrong? Well Memphis seems corrected themselves. The bacteria they won a few in a row now so saint going into and they do it without Jaren Jackson. He'll be back next week So you think Memphis hanging there hanging in Portland this bill threat you right porcelain Memphis. I would rather Dodge Lillard. I know he's not backing up. Leaving bath yeah. I hope it's Portland because episodes lousy hotel a good way to actually see basis right as we go to gusts and to rendezvous unique good best. Believe good with me and go back to the rules. Feel like we're back in Motel. You know whatever. I can emphasise entertaining team. I think that would be great. I would be by sweep. Are here Taylor sweep. Our hotel is right off of Beale street right. Michael could go listen to live blues music every night like the Blues Reggae reggae and find somebody singing reggae. It's count exactly. Are you getting REGGAE IN MIAMI. Oh Miami Heat no final. We sleep a big REGGAE guy. Off Course doesn't even know. Motley crew is a motley crew. You Know Burning Spirits Group. No sleep with this is the one thing he knows. He knows. Reggae or he does He knows he knows reggae. You have heard a third one. And he knows he knows my favorite vice. I smell something out in the garage the garage again. I'll starting to get a little contact over every day in that garage Ramona. A car I told her you were probably down there. Sleep in your car where you take a little nap. You're right yeah Michael. How does this game play out tonight? Low scoring low scoring close. Blowout what do you think very intense game? I think it's GonNa be in the high nineties but also using defense is going to throw one eleven one. Oh four in Milwaukee. I think. This'll be a defensive game tonight. High Nineties and very intense game by the way. Which game do you guys think? Tougher matchup in a seven game. Set A to both guys Tough game to seven games that you think the bucks or the clippers clippers. I got a nasty attitude. Yeah I think it's a click on attitude and so much depth. Yeah Oh we gotta do schedule. A couple of those games in this series back to back and then you'll take the night off. Yeah Sure Yeah. What do you expect tonight? And that's that's what I was getting too. It's like I. I think the bucks are amazing. I think they're really good teams. They just don't scare me as much as taken on the clippers. I I think the Lakers handle business tonight. I really do. I think that revenge game they were down. Nineteen in the first half in Milwaukee Game December nineteenth so I I feel like the energy at staples the fax number one the East. I'm on the West. Lakers win this game tonight. All right we're going to hand it over to you guys. Laker screw up as lead in. Don't screw this up to the game. I am going to stay for the second. I'm staying for the entire game tonight right next to Maria Taylor. Oh that's why. Yeah I mean you could sell that seat for top dollar all right guys. We'll hand it off to sleep. What and Michael Lakers PRE-GAME NEXT ESPN LA?
Cattle Current PodcastAug. 29, 2019
"Early indications suggest softer fed cattle prices this week u._s. Agriculture secretary sonny perdue launches an investigation into beef prices following tyson fire coming up on your calendar day with less ishmael and doc how all this decision will with your kelkar market update for wednesday night and thursday morning the twenty ninth of august august although still largely undeveloped through wednesday afternoon negotiated cash fed cattle trade appear steady to weaker than last week for instance slaughter spheres in ever sold fully dollar at sioux falls regional south dakota on wednesday. There were three hundred thirty seven choice two to three steers wayne an an average of fourteen hundred and thirty three pounds that brought an average price of one zero eight. Oh one hundred wait a day earlier. Negotiated trade in the western corn belt one hundred nine dollars. I'll live basis which a dollar less than the previous week. Although too few to trend they're worse address sales in the region on wednesday at one hundred seventy three dollars grist prices there last week were one seventy four to one seventy eight. Also there are seven hundred and thirty four head offered in the weekly. We fed cattle exchange auction to lot four hundred thirty two head of nebraska heifers sold for one hundred six dollars. One hundred weight for delivery one seventeen days negotiate live prices in nebraska last week. Were one oh seven twenty eight. Despite early support from higher outside markets cattle wolf features continued mostly lower wednesday amid light trade extremely like trade for feeder cattle pressure included the early tone of the cash fake cattle. Oh market as well as the overall decline in wholesale beef values that continue to adjust toward pre-fire levels except for twenty cents higher and the bat that contract thirty cents higher and almost spin august and unchanged in a way october live calif futures closed an average of fifty cents lower other than twenty cents higher and soon to expire august fear cal futures closed in an average of eighty seven cents lower wholesale beef values were or lower on choice and hire on select with light to moderate demand and lied offerings according to the agricultural marketing service choice box beef cap value how you was three dollars and eighty cents lower wednesday afternoon at two hundred thirty two dollars and ninety six cents hundred light select was a dollar ten higher at to eleven eighty eighty one grain futures edged higher on wednesday with weather concerns corn futures closed three to five cents higher through july twenty and then mostly fractionally actually lower soybean futures closed for two six entire cavs and fear kelsall mixed at the weekly klay wednesday auctions monitored by cal current for instance feeder steers trade mostly wanted two dollars lower at o'casey west arena oklahoma fear heifers their seoul two to three dollars higher though there are too few cavs to trend a day earlier seven thousand six hundred sixteen header on offer across both days at hustler stock market and carney nebraska there are twenty two hundred and thirty three compared to two weeks earlier steers and heifers way more than eight hundred pounds sold mostly steady two three dollars higher at winterland stock in dodge city. There are too few comparable sales for a trend but higher undertones were noted there are seventeen hundred and seventy four head on offer finally compared to two weeks earlier feeder steers way more than eight hundred fifty pound salt on evenly steady at sterling livestock commission colorado while fear heifers wayne more than eight fifty soul two dollars and fifty cents higher. There are just seven hundred ninety two head on offer offer mostly yearlings. Come off graph major u._s. Financial indices closed higher wednesday recovering covering ground lost in the previous session. Support included the increase in crude oil prices which were tied to a significantly steeper decline in u._s. Crude oil royal inventory than expected the dow jones industrial average close two hundred and fifty points higher the s. and p. five hundred closed eighteen four tire and the nasdaq doc was up twenty-nine points u._s. Secretary of agriculture sonny perdue announced on wednesday that is part of continued efforts to monitor the impact of the fire at tyson's packing plant and holcomb kansas. He directed u._s._d._a.'s packers and stockyards division vision to launch an investigation into recent beef pricing margins to determine if there's any evidence of price manipulation collusion restrictions chains of competition or other unfair practices if any unfair practices are detected pretty says yes d._a. Will take quick enforcement action as as bobby simpson president of the missouri cattlemen's association said following the announcement cattle producers have sound reason to question market events since the fire her while a sharp decrease and slaughter capacity was anticipated slaughter increase some nine thousand head from the week prior to the fire further he he says most expected the market disruption to cause uncertainty that few would have believed fit cal prices dropped five percent in long weeks time while choice <unk> box beef prices would spike nine percent as total slaughter increased. There's no harm in conducting an investigation to ensure integrity of the markets and respond to the justified concerns of u._s. Cattle producers simpson says in fact he adds. It's simply the right thing to do. No matter the result of the investigation good can come from better understanding what took place and how to best mitigate future disruptions jennifer houston president of the national. Oh cattlemen's beef association says the announcement demonstrates the government's understanding that the fireplace extreme strain on the cattle industry. We encourage u._s._d._a. To look at all aspects of the supply chain and utilize internal and external expertise in this investigation houston says she adds that we believe it adds transparency will help build confidence in the markets among cattleman cattleman. Certainly punishment is due to anyone found guilty. Take the actions purdue mentioned if no wrongdoing is found however then hopefully the investigation will appease those who believe something other than mortga forces work work propelling wholesale value so high while fed cattle prices took a step back that you're kelkar market update for wednesday night and thursday morning the twenty ninth of august. You can always find more at w._w._w. Dot cal current dot com this. This is where sexual thanks for listening <music>.
Con Artists Bites: Drug Deals
"Welcome to cast crime bikes. We wanted to give our listeners some additional content to help them dive even deeper into the true crime world. Every week in addition to your normal con-artists episode, we're exploring the most fascinating true crime themes covered across the podcast network. We've collected short clips from some of our most popular podcast originals to help us explore ideas like motivation method and madness and show how interconnected the crime world really is you can find be original episodes for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. A list of episodes that we use to will be posted in the episode description. Today, we're discussing cases of drug use and drug dealers. What kind of psychological motivators are present in someone who is using or selling drugs according to the National Institute on Drug Abuse People Commonly experiment with drugs because they wanna feel good stop feeling bad or perform better at work or school addiction occurs when the urge to keep using stronger than the control in stopping. Common Triggers for addiction include trauma in the home mental health problems and starting drug use at a young age. But what makes someone graduate from a drug user to a drug dealer according to a study run by researchers with perpetuity research and consultancy international a significant portion of the drug dealer studied became involved in the drug trade due to their proximity to friends and family members who deal drugs. Many others were already drug users in offered a job by their supplier. It is worth noting that half of the women involved in the study became involved in the drug trafficking industry as a result of coercion. Lastly, offenders commented that the lack of employment opportunities in their area had resulted in drug dealing because it was their only option to earn an income. In today's episode. We'll explore three different stories of drug dealers and drug users and see what might have led them down this path. Are Opening clip comes from podcast original kingpins. Raeffel Edmund built his empire by introducing crack cocaine to Washington, DC in the nineteen eighty s spurring a violent era in the city's history. Raeffel was not the first Edmund to make a career dealing drugs when ray was a child in the nineteen sixties, his father quit his job as a driver to pursue what he saw as a more lucrative opportunity dealing drugs, rifles, mother Busey was also part of the family business and the EDMUNDS had been well known in DC's criminal. Since the nineteen fifties. Nine year old rifle Edmund was board one afternoon in Nineteen, seventy three. It was a hot day in Washington DC none of his friends were around to play. Most of the twenty people who lived in his family's house were out at work rifles. Mother Buzi was getting ready for work to counting out pills and dropping them into a plastic bag Buzi looked at her son who is staring off into space for two years. She got up and said come on now I have something to show you. The air was hot and thick with humidity. Little rifle followed his mother down the sidewalk until they reached a nondescript corner a few blocks away. plastic baggie in front of rifles face. It was full of colorful pills, powder blue and pink and chalk white. Raeffel reached out but his mother slapped his hand away and said not for you never for you. We are going to sell these raeffel nodded, he watched his a middle aged man in a tracksuit approach them and handed Buzi a crumble twenty dollar bill. She poured some white pills into a smaller baggy and gave it to the man. This was rifles first lesson in drug dealing he was nine years old and already a kingpin in the making. Back from kingpins highlighted racial edmonds. Early entry to the world of drug dealing. It's easy to see how rifle would eventually grow up to run an operation that brought one, thousand, seven, hundred pounds of cocaine a week in DC two, nine year old Raeffel dealing drugs was normal. That's why my mother handed him a bag of pills to sell. He didn't hesitate at instead of following his peers to college rifle decided to stay on the streets of DC making more money for his family, but he ever would by going to college. Because of his family background RAFFLE was expected to carry the family business. But what happens when someone whose family never expected them to do drugs dies of an overdose? Next to will cover the mysterious death of boxer Sonny Liston. Hi It's Alistair and I have some exciting news the news spotify original from podcast is unlike anything you've heard before it's called very presidential with Ashley Flowers, and it uncovers the most damning details surrounding history's most high-profile leaders. Every Tuesday through the two thousand and twenty election host Ashley Flowers shines a light on the Daca side of the American. Presidency. From Torrid, Love Affairs and contemptible corruption to Shocking cover-ups and even murder, she'll expose the personal and professional controversies you may never knew existed. You'll hear some wildly true stories about presidents such as Richard, Nixon, George Washington Andrew Jackson and more. Very presidential highlights the exploits you never learned in history class the probably should have. Family. Drama Hustle. Vices. Dirty Secrets. These presidents may have run but they most certainly cons hide. Follow very presidential with Ashley, flowers free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode of Cornutus is brought to you by simply safe it was designed to be easy to use. So protecting your whole home twenty, four seven has never been simpler. You can order online with the click of a button once it arrives just opened the box, place the senses and plug it in. Now. Your home is protected around the clock and that twenty four, seven, professional monitoring and emergency dispatch starts at a reasonable fifty cents a day. Honestly, I feel very good knowing we have this system our apartment was broken into two years ago, and while we lost a lot of irreplaceble lightens, it was mostly a sense of security that was stolen. Having simply safe the cameras senses, and even the window decals makes us feel more secure and assured that our home is taking care of should we ever be away for a period of time again? If you want home security head to simplisafe dot com slash con artists, and get a free. HD. Camera. That's simply safe. Dot Com slash con artists to make sure they know that our show sent you. Now back to the show. So far we've talked about rifle Edmund, who's crack cocaine empire was just one more iteration of what was in many ways a family business. But in our next clip from unsolved murders, we cover the peculiar drug related death of former heavyweight boxing champion Sonny Liston. January Fifth Nineteen seventy-one Geraldine List in came home to find your thirty nine year old husband dead at the foot of their bed. Police called Sonny Liston to death an accidental heroin overdose according to police sunny was a known heroin user who would started using in the mid sixties when he met infamous bookie Ashraf's name. Sonny Liston my man listen whatever you need. I. Got You. You need women I'll get you women you need a party I'll take you to the best party ever seen getting a little pick me up. Your Guy Pick me up. We talking jokes. Only the finest now talk. Resnick an extremely sordid reputation even by Vegas standards like many people in Sonny's life, he was closely tied to the mob and he opened the door to more serious drug activity. For Sunday, Sunday was no longer bringing in the cash he wants did and immediately began to rack up gambling debts upon setting foot in Vegas he needed a new source of income with help from resnick Sunday began selling drugs and according to some them as well. By the year nineteen seventy Sunday was living fast life in Vegas. He was partying every night ruining a mid level drug operation and had a mistress on the side. In that clip from unsolved murders, Sonny Liston met ash resnick began using heroin in nineteen seventy-one sunny died from a heroin overdose but friends and family have raised questions about the veracity of this cause of death ruling Sonny's Wipe Geraldine and David Pearl. Referee and one of Sonny's good friends both insisted that sonny was terrified of needles. His trainers said, he had to cancel a trip to Africa because he refused to get the required vaccinations. Even Sonny's dentist refuted the heroin use claims saying that there was nothing sunny feared more than a needle with Sonny's fear of needles corroborated by so many people close to him. It's hard to believe he would die of a drug that is typically administered intravenously. This leads some to believe that Sonny was murdered possibly due to his involvement with Vegas gambling and bookies, but we'll never know for certain. Sonny's boxing career was near its end when he allegedly began using heroin but our next subject started using drugs to grow his athletic. The last clip comes from sports criminals covering one of the biggest doping scandals in cycling history. Lance Armstrong became a household name in the two thousands after overcoming testicular cancer to win seven Tour de France competitions. But in two thousand, ten, one of Lance's cycling teammates Floyd Landis blew the whistle. Several top riders Lance included were accused of doping. After years of denials floyd admitted, he had used performance enhancing drugs and that lance used drugs during. His Tour de France. Wins. Floyd alleged that it was lance. Teammates into the drugs. Twenty six year old Floyd Landis was a singular figure in pro cycling raised in a strict Mennonite family floyd grew up in a rural Pennsylvania township literally named Farmers Ville. Even. Though he wasn't even allowed to wear shorts, floyd gravitated towards cycling and became a skilled mountain bike racer in one thousand, nine, hundred, nine switch to road racing he signed for Lance's US postal team three years later just ahead of the two thousand two, Tour de France, although floyd lack discipline lance realized he was a diamond in the rough with enough training, he could become a key cog in the US ps machine. Ahead of the tour lance brought floyd along for so-called altitude training and Saint. Moritz. Switzerland. But they had a third wheel on this little getaway Dr Michaela for Corey. Within pro cycling circles. Dr Ferrari was the Dawn of doping. He didn't just know how to maximize his clients P. E. D. use. He knew how to keep them from getting caught lance had been working with Ferrari since nineteen ninety-five even after Ferrari went on trial for providing athletes with PhD's lance dutifully stuck by the good side, he had to avoid a paper trail, but the risk was worth. The reward nobody ran a doping program like maekelae Ferrari and Floyd Landis was land as only USPS teammate on the Ferrari plan. They all were if anyone refused they were out. In that clip from Sports Criminals Lance Armstrong introduced his teammate Floyd Landis to the world of performance enhancing drugs. Those suspected of using PD several times during his career lance didn't confess until two thousand thirteen when he was stripped of his seven Tour de France titles Lances Televised Confession the Oprah Winfrey show drew criticism from the public including clinical psychologist Joseph. Burgo, who specializes narcissism? Dr Burgo says that Lance's repeated denials and bullying of those who accused him shows that he is not remorseful for his actions. Burgo believes Lance apologized to his fans not because he's remorseful because he longs for a hero status and to be adored by its fans once again. The criminals in our clips. Today, all had varying motivators to their illicit drug use and drug dealing in kingpins. Raeffel Edmund grew up in a world of drugs and drug dealing. He committed his first transaction at the age of nine at the behest of his mother and went on to lead a drug empire and its sports criminals Lance Armstrong's drive to win let him to not only seek out performance enhancing drugs, but to encourage his teammates to use them as well. In some ways he was both a user and a dealer, and in the end it cost him everything's. Thanks for tuning into podcast crime pints we hope you enjoyed this episode of drug dealers and drug users. We'll be next week with a new episode on death penalty cases. If you'd like to listen to the episodes, we discussed today in full simply search far podcast original shows, kingpins, unsolved murders, or sports criminals on spotify not only spotify already have all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals for freak from your phone desktop smart speaker. I'll see you next. I it's Alastair before we go. I. Wanted to remind you to check out the new spotify original from podcast very presidential with Ashley Flowers. Every Tuesday through the twenty twenty election host Ashley flowers shines a light on the dark side if the American presidency exposing wildly true stories about history's most high profile leaders, there's torrid love affairs, shocking blackmail schemes, and even murder. To hear more, follow very presidential with Ashley Flowers, free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
The Phantom Punch Pt. 1
"Warning this episode contains instances of racism and violence listener discretion is advised and extreme caution is advised for listeners under thirteen. Charles. Sonny Liston was once the heavyweight boxing champion of the world. A human dreadnought built for fighting and invincible destroyer of men. He won the title in Nineteen Sixty two with a first round knockout of standing champion Floyd Patterson. Two minutes in a final thudding left hook from listen we're all it took to knock patterson cold. To prove it wasn't a fluke listen repeated the feat in a rematch ten months later in nineteen, sixty, four sports illustrated wrote about listing sang seldom if ever has a fighter so dominated the sport by sheer muscular mass his baleful obsidian steer intimidates fighters, sports, writers, and the occupants of the first twenty rows of any arena he enters. Many fans and sportswriters believed listen was the ultimate champion. No Man could defeat him. Certainly not the brash twenty two year old newcomer Cassius clay soon to be known as Mohammed Ali. But in May of nineteen, sixty five. And found himself on his back during their rematch struggling to right himself in the ring. He was sent there by an UN- remarkable punch few spectators noticed. Even all e wasn't sure the blow had landed. It just didn't make any sense. Why had the heavyweight champion of the world gunned down so quickly? Welcome to conspiracy theories eight par cast original every Monday and Wednesday we dig into the complicated stories behind the world's most controversial events and search for the Truth Carter Roy and I'm Ali Brandenburg and neither of us are conspiracy theorists but we are open minded skeptical and curious don't get US wrong. Sometimes, the official version is the truth but sometimes it's not you can find episodes. Of Conspiracy theories and all other par- cast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts stream conspiracy theories for free on spotify just open the APP and type conspiracy theories in the search bar. This is our first episode on the Phantom. Punch when Muhammad Ali fought Sonny Liston on May twenty, fifth nineteen, sixty five, it was over in two minutes and twelve seconds. And Unlikely and some might say impossible outcome that left onlookers skeptical. This episode, we're covering Sonny Liston hardscrabble life, his rise to boxing's greatest heights and the controversial punch that almost no one saw next episode will take a deep dive into the conspiracy theories surrounding the Phantom Punch will look into the possibility that either the mafia or the nation of Islam forced listen to throw the fight or that he bet against himself. We have all that and more coming up stay with us. In nineteen sixty, four, thirty year, old heavyweight champion Charles Sonny. Liston was the most dangerous man in sports. He demolished the former champion Floyd Patterson in back toback bouts in nineteen sixty to nineteen, sixty, three, each one lasting only two minutes who must then was built to be a fighter. He stood six foot one and weighed two, hundred, thirteen pounds. His hands were the largest of any heavyweight champion in history according to sports illustrated writer more to shore nick they looked like cannonballs winning made them into fists. And, seemed even more dangerous outside of the ring in his short life. He was arrested over twenty times for Larceny disorderly conduct resisting arrest armed robbery, and once assaulting a police officer and taking his gun. But there was so much more to Sonny Liston than what was publicized. Born in Sand Slough Arkansas on January eighth one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty two or it could have been nineteen twenty eight as he told officers when arrested for robbery in nineteen fifty eventually sunny claimed may eighth nineteen, thirty two as his official birthday. But whether or not this was the accurate date is still up for debate even his mother Helen couldn't recall her son's exact birthday there was no birth certificate. Besides Sonny Liston was just one of twenty five children fathered by toby listen a sharecropper and abusive alcoholic. Toby put listened to work when he was eight years old like all his children toby worked as son hard and beat him even harder. Those beatings left deep scars across listens back scars. Ringside observers could see decades later in nineteen, forty, six listens mother Helen and most of her thirteen children's split from toby they moved to Saint Louis. Missouri. But sunny stayed behind for a year with his father. After the work and the abuse became too much. He collected enough pecans to sell and reunited with his family. In Missouri, the illiterate list and briefly found work with a construction crew. Many of whom were older men with prison records by the time listen was sixteen. He weighed two hundred pounds and had turned to crime as an alternative to the exploitative hard labor that was available to him. After leaving school a series of robberies led to his first arrest in nineteen fifty. A judge sentenced him to five years at Missouri State Penitentiary where listen soon, distinguished himself with his heavy hitting fists. Listen. Didn't necessarily go looking for fights, but he sure could, and then quickly before long the prison chaplains Reverend Edward. Slap. Men and father a lowest Stevens heard about the brooding young inmate they introduced list into the prison boxing program. Well Liston had no formal training. He had all the talent he was fast for his size and every punch he threw inflicted damage. He pummeled the prison heavyweight champion. So decisively, few inmates would step in the ring with listen. In boxing helpless instead of trouble long enough for father. Stevens to lobby the parole board, which heard listens case in nineteen, Fifty, two after serving twenty, nine months of his five year sentence he was released and he returned to Saint. Louis missions transition to life outside wasn't easy. Jail was the first place. He had three meals a day. He knew he wanted to leave crime behind in boxing seem like a way out. And Fortunately, depending on who you knew boxing and crime went hand in hand at the time. After he was released from prison father. Stevens. Introduced listen to some friends in the boxing world including manager Frankie Mitchell Mitchell had ties to the mafia along with a record of twenty six arrests most for suspicion of gambling. But those connections allowed listen to land sorely needed jobs between fights. He worked as a driver for Labor racketeer John Tali, a man who had also served time for forgery assault selling narcotics and carrying a concealed weapon battalion. Mitchell were just two of the unsavory relationships that would come back haunt listens career but for the moment they were a big help. On September second nineteen fifty-three less than a year after listens released from Prison Mitchell secured him his first professional fight. It only took thirty three seconds for listened to knock out his opponent over the next two and a half years he built his record up to fifteen wins against only one loss. What does all this mean? Well, now might be a good time for some boxing WANNA one. Most professional fights are scheduled for ten rounds, each lasting three minutes, but championship fights with a title on the line are given fifteen rounds, those five rounds or called the championship distance. Each round is scored by three ringside judges the more punches, you land and the more you avoid the better your score but the judges scorecards are superfluous in the event of a knockout. The fighter could lose every round, but if he knocks out his. Opponent his hand is the one raised in victory in a career that spanned fifty wins listen knocked out his opponents thirty nine times and incredible feat fighters are ranked based on wins and losses along with the quality of their opponents victory over a boxer with a solid winning record counts way more than a win over an opponent with lots of losses in his career listen climbed the ranks quickly, but he did have a few personal setbacks. On May, Fifth Nineteen fifty-six a friend of listens cabdriver arrived to pick him up outside his apartment. Listen came out to find a police officer writing his black friend a ticket simply for waiting. For anyone unfamiliar with cabs. That's what they do. They wait harassment from the Saint Louis PD was all too familiar listen. So he intervened. When the officer directed a racial slur at listen in reached for his gun, the boxer grabbed the weapon and lifted the officer off his feet. In the end, the officer required seven stitches and had a broken leg. Listens consequences were more severe despite the situation he was arrested convicted and sentenced to nine months in prison after his release listen had another altercation with the police officer. This time he left the cop I in a trash, can the Saint Louis police threaten listen telling him to leave town or else? which is why listen relocated to Philadelphia? In philly mobsters, Frankie Carbo, and Frank blinky Palermo became listings new managers. Both men were notorious in the boxing world for bribes, fixed fights and extortion under his new handlers. Listen return to the ring in January, of nineteen, fifty eight in Chicago. As soon as the bell rang around one, all the mundane troubles of the outside world disappeared listen stocked and battered his opponent billy hunter stopping him in just two rounds for the next three years listen continued his climb through the heavyweight division. He had an undefeated string of nineteen victories. Sixteen of them knockouts by nineteen, sixty, two, thirty year old listen had fought his way to the top. He was ranked the number one contender for the heavyweight title. But those in charge wanted no part of Sonny Liston? His menacing demeanor made him a poor ambassador for the sport. And given his friendships. There were concerns about his ties to the mob. It was also a critical time in the civil rights movement and the National Association for the Advancement of colored people or the. C. P. was concerned that listens criminal ties would be detrimental to their fight for racial equality. As a result the organization urged the current champion, a black man named Floyd Patterson. Not to fight Liston in protest. But when the sports governing body the World Boxing Association ultimately gave listen his shot at the title Patterson showed up ready to defend his title as for listen he understood the good versus evil narrative of sports. He wants said a boxing match is like a cowboy movie people pay to see the bad guys get beat. So I'm a bad guy but I changed things I don't get beat. His words proved true on September twenty fifth nineteen, sixty, two listing destroyed patterson in the first round and was crowned the new heavyweight champion of the World He'd reached the pinnacle of his sport and he believed things were going to change for the better on the flight home. Listen felt redeemed. He was certain. There would be a welcome crowd awaiting him in Philadelphia and he even practiced a speech. But when the plane landed, there was no one to greet in. No celebration no crowd of admirers, Jack mckinney, a sports reporter for the Philadelphia Daily News who traveled with Liston said I watched sunny you feel the deflation see the look of hurt in his is Philadelphia. Wanted nothing to do with him. In that moment listed knew that he'd always be seen as the bad guy. A brute, a criminal, and if that's what they wanted. That's what they were going to get. Coming up a fight against the man who'd become Mohammed Ali? Hi, it's molly. In case you haven't heard podcast has an intense new original series I think you'll really enjoy it's called medical murders ended exposes the. Disturbing and deadly side of medicine. Every Wednesday medical murders introduces you to the worst. The medical community has to offer men and women who took an oath to save lives, but instead used their expertise to develop more sinister specialties. Join Host Alistair murden as he examines the formative years and motives of history's most infamous killers, dissecting their medical backgrounds with expert analysis and professional insight provided by practicing md Dr David Kipper. You'll investigate a wide range of heinous gear workers like the general practitioner. To be the most prolific serial killer in modern history. Or the dentist who led a double life as a Hitman. Or even the doctor and gang member who mixed deadly potions for unhappy housewives to use on their husbands. When it comes to these true crime stories, the only thing the doctor ordered his murder. Follow medical murders free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. There is a lot going on in the world. Feel impossible to get away from the issues that caused you stress or anxiety. If you're in a situation, you feel you can't get away from better help online counseling can help. Better help we'll assess your needs and match you with one of its licensed professional therapists who specialize in areas like depression stress, anxiety, lgbt matters, and many more. Once connected you can start communicating in under twenty four hours in a safe and private online environment. You'll get timely and thoughtful responses plus you'll be able to schedule a weekly video or phone sessions, and if cost is an issue better, help even offers financial aid. When you're ready for convenient professional and affordable counseling reach out to better help. In fact so many people have been using better help that they're recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states. Start living a happier life today. As a listener, you'll get ten percent off your first month by visiting better help dot com slash conspiracy. Join over one million people taking charge of their mental health. Again, that's better help. LP DOT com slash conspiracy. Now back to the story. In September nineteen, sixty, two, thirty year old Charles. Sonny. liston became the new heavyweight champion of the world. Six of his last seven fights had gone under three rounds. Many boxing experts believed he was unbeatable in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, four listed defended his title against his polar opposite Cassius clay who later took the name Hamad. Ali. Clay. was an underdog in betting circles in a prefight poll forty, three of forty six sports writers picked listen to win but Claes confidence soared. In fact he predicted listing would fall before round eight when Liston was asked for his prediction on the outcome, he simply held up a pair of fingers indicating it would be over in two rounds meanwhile in the weeks leading up to the fight. There were rumors about listens opponent Cassius clay was getting involved with the Nation of Islam a group that many white Americans perceived as dangerous because of its desire for black empowerment in reality the truth threat that the nation of Islam posed was to the status quo but the media vilified them and the F. B. I. followed their activities which included keeping tabs on clay. He was friends with Nation of Islam Minister Malcolm. X. Who happened to be in Miami to watch clay fights Sonny liston in general Claes, association with black nationalism. was seen as negative publicity especially for boxing promoter Bill McDonald unlike baseball or football boxing matches are staged by independent promoters. They put up all the money to host the fight including the boxers fees the promoter then recoup says money from ticket sales and licensing of any radio broadcast or closed circuit TV revenue. So McDonald was concerned about his investment his bottom line could be at risk if white fans refused to watch, he threatened to cancel the fight unless Klay renounced the nation of Islam it was ridiculous ask and Klay refused. A compromise was only reached when Malcolm X. agreed to leave town with clay agreeing to keep his Muslim affiliations secret until after the fight, which took place on February twenty, fifth nineteen, sixty four. At the opening bell listen came looking for a quick knockout, but he couldn't close the distance between himself and clay. Clay, moved and danced his speed was unlike anything listen had faced before list swung clay who countered with hooks and Jabs. He painted listings face with Chris combinations, landing every punch. But some at ringside argued that Claes quick strikes were too light to cause damage. Still his thrust seemed upset listens timing. He couldn't get set to throw a punch when he swung he caught nothing but air. By the end of round one list in no longer appeared invincible klay fought more flat-footed in round two, which meant his punches carried more power, but it also made him easier to hit. Still listen failed to land any solid punches. By round three clay had backed listed into the ropes he taunted list and shouting come on you bum. He then through a Chris combination to listens face opening a wound underneath his I ironically between rounds four and five clay was the one complaining. He said that his eyes were burning. It's believed that the coagulant originally used to close listings wound somehow gotten claes is by listings gloves or it may have been the limit used to treat list in sore shoulder. Others believed listens comrades deliberately smeared something caustic on his mitts in order to handicap clay. In any case clay's trainer Angelo Dundee sponged his face with water to clear his is. It didn't work clay told his trainer to cut off his gloves and stop the fight. But Dundee refused he believed they'd clear with time. Time they didn't have. At the bell for round five Dundee's Shove Klay out of the corner with a single word of advice run Klay stayed away from the stocking listen peddling backward meanwhile, he pawed at his eyes with his gloves in blinked furiously ringside members of the nation of Islam Dundy with suspicion. Did he intentionally sabotage clay when he sponged down his face between rounds Dundee saw them took the sponge and wiped his own face to prove he hadn't meanwhile clay held his left hand in front of him to keep listing in Bay. Listen unsympathetically waited in landing hard lefts and rights yet somehow clay withstood them until the bell rang again in the time before round six Dandy? sponged Claes is again. This time they cleared, Klay was ready to go. He worked his JAB like a piston snapping at listings head list in was exhausted his hands were down and he was an easy target for the sharp shooting clay when the bell rang to signal round seven listen didn't move from his corner his trainer claimed he had a shoulder injury and wasn't able to finish the fight. It was over the indomitable champion had surrendered his crown. Cassius Clay, the new heavyweight champion of the World Sprang to the center of the ring. He held his hands high and victory in race to the rope shouting at the ringside media who'd written him off he your words in his post fight interview clay proclaimed himself the greatest and a bad man declaring I shook up the world I shook up the world but the story was far from over. Listen quitting didn't sit well with fans or boxing officials and it didn't help that listen claim to shoulder injury. No one could see plus there was the business with clay's is in round five. There were consequences for listen primarily in his refusal to answer the bell at the start of round seven. The Colorado Boxing Commission from listens home state suspended his boxing license, and the Miami Beach Boxing Commission withheld listens purrs nearly one point four, million dollars until further investigation. A US Senate subcommittee investigated whether it was a fixed fight. One major disconcerting piece of evidence was a contract signed between the two fighters four months prior to the bout the contract was with intercontinental promotions. An entity controlled by listens management the ones with the mob connections. It showed that intercontinental had bought the rights to promote Claes first title defence. Should he beat listen this ensured that listens management would share in the profits even if they're fighter lost whom that wasn't all investigators found a second secret contract guaranteeing a rematch, the World Boxing Association or WBA prohibited rematch clauses in fight contracts they were concerned that a fighter when guaranteed rematch would deliberately lose if he was promised a second fight. After all, it meant to paydays instead of one. The. WBA saw this contract is a complete slap in the face. They voted unanimously to strip clay of his new title into drop in from their rankings. As far as the fight itself was concerned the Senate committee couldn't determine any wrongdoing. As sports illustrated put it. There was certainly nothing in testimony to indicate that listen gave anything but his huffing and puffing best. Meanwhile a team of eight doctors diagnosed listing with a torn left shoulder tendon, which proved too serious to have continued the fight. It was also revealed that listens manager Jack Nylon was the one who ended the fight not listen nyland said I made the decision before sunny could protest sunny spit out his mouthpiece in cursed me and cursed clay satisfied that there had been no wrongdoing. The Miami Commission released listens perse. It's important to note that the World Boxing Association has rival organizations like the World Boxing Council and the New York State Athletic Commission. It's part of the reason boxing is so terrible in prone to corruption each organization can do as they please in this case despite the WBA's ruling, these other rival organizations continue to recognize cashes clay as their champion but clay was facing new controversies on March sixth nineteen, sixty, four Elijah Muhammad leader of the Nation of Islam announced that Cassius clay had changed his name to Mohammed Ali Mohammed meaning worthy of all praises and all e meaning most high. But many outsiders refuse to accept knowledge his new name. Almost all reporters kept referring to him as Cassius Clay. Meanwhile, the WBA didn't have final say over the rematch clause in intercontinental second contract this was up to each state's boxing commissions, and while most places were hesitant to issue a license Massachusetts agreed to host the bowed Ali would face list again on May twenty fifth nineteen, sixty, five a little more than a year after the first match, and if the outcome of the first fight shook up the world. This one would have eye-witnesses doubting their very senses. When we come back the punch unseen around the world. If you're looking for a great night's sleep look no further than Casper to find outrageously comfortable products at not so outrageous prices. Casper has everything you need from award winning mattresses to pillows bedframes end even a dog bed. Casper's original mattress uses perforated breathable foam. So you stay comfortable and cool all night, and now it comes with zoned support which helps keep your spine aligned by using softer foam around the shoulders and firmer foam under the hips waist and lower back transformed the way you sleep one snooze at a time. Experienced Casper the easy way with free shipping and free returns. Casper's labor. Day. Sale is here get fifteen percents off your order when you purchase an original Nova or wade mattress and enjoy ten percent off everything else use code. Comfort fifteen excludes the element mattress bundles and sale items limit one per customer and order. Please SEE CASPER DOT com slash terms for additional terms and conditions. This episode is brought to you by up spot. You have a lot of great ideas ideas to reach new audiences, create better content and improve your systems, and you understand that you need to move quickly on these ideas to create the best possible experience for your customers and grow your business. So it's time to leave that clunky complex and time-consuming cms in the past where it belongs and upgrade to cms hub no more waiting days for an. Update, feeling like you're site is outdated or worrying about security cms hub from hub spot has all the features you need built right in. So developers and marketers can work in harmony. So if your next great idea involves having an engaging dynamic insecure website, let's cms hub take the pain out of managing your software. So you can get back to what you do best wowing your customers learn more about cms hub at hub spot, dot, com slash spotify. Now. Back to the story. At twenty two years old Muhammad Ali was the youngest ever heavyweight champion of the world. He's taken the crown from rival Sonny Liston in nineteen sixty four about that ringside reporter Howard cosell proclaimed one of the most astonishing upsets in the chronicles of boxing. With an injury forcing the premature end of the fight and the judges scorecards tidied the outcome remained tainted. Yes. Ali was declared the winner but only because listen quit. Now that Massachusetts had agreed to host the rematch, the bets poured in list and opened as a thirteen two five favorite meaning betters favorite him nearly three to one, two defeat Ali. It seemed there was a lot of pressure for listening to regain his crown and his reputation. Listen. Headed this point relocated to Denver where he trained harder than ever before he spent weeks in the Colorado Woods chopping down trees he took long morning runs carrying a backpack loaded with bricks to build his endurance. He even sparred more than one hundred seventy rounds to sharpen his boxing skills. Three sparring partners quit in two days one left with missing teeth another with eight stitches in his mouth. As, the fight approached Time magazine declared that listen was in the best shape of his career ringside reporter Howard. Cosell who was no fan of listen admitted he thought listen would destroy Ali. Unfortunately, on Christmas, day nineteen, sixty, four LISTON was arrested again. This time the Denver police staked out a diner where listen was having lunch. As soon as he left the police pulled him over they reported that list was uncooperative when questioned and that he refused to perform a sobriety test. But listen wasn't even driving apparently listen also refused a ride in the police car. In fact, ten officers showed up to wrestle listen into a patrol wagon he was charged with driving under the influence and resisting arrest. Fortunately the jury sided in listens favor and declared him not guilty despite this outcome Boston officials were looking for any excuse to get out of their commitment and cancel the fight. The State Attorney General feared it might attract rioters and demonstrators since civil rights disturbances were happening frequently around the nation between that listens mob ties and recent run in with the law. The fight was now more of a burden boon to the city of Boston. Three weeks before the fight on May fifth the Boston District Attorney's office declared the bout a public nuisance. A court order. And the fight was next. Because promoters earn most of their money from casts didn't care about live attendance or wear the fight was held. They simply needed to find a new place to host. Luckily, San Michael's a boxing promoter resident of Lewiston Maine offered. His hometown is a venue with a population of forty. One Thousand Lewiston was the smallest town to hold a heavyweight title match. In four decades the fight would be contested dominance hall, a junior hockey rink, but the a-list guests outshone the modest venue. Promoters stocked ringside seats with former heavyweight champions like Joe Louis Rocky Marciano and Floyd Patterson another former champion Jersey Joe Walcott was inside the ring as a referee. On May twenty, fifth nineteen, sixty, five under the heat of the lights listen entered the ring. I. As Ali made his way to the ropes, listen her the booze and catcalls he used to. For, once he wasn't the bad guy. The bell rang and listen charged across the ring landing an overhand right punch all the retaliated with a hook then danced away. Listing stalked his opponent and tried to meet Ali with the JAB. But missed Ali carried is hands low his quick movements too much for listen but it hardly made for an exciting fight neither boxer landed heavy punches the to continue to dance around until midway through the first round. Then listen back only up to the ropes and swung with his left. All the swooped a left Jab in return. which hardly appeared to make contact with listen but somehow listing tumbled to the ground before Ali had even made his next swing. No one could understand why barely anyone at ringside saw the punch land only wasn't even sure what he had done. Even, if his punch had hit, listen all lean knew it hadn't packed enough power to knock his opponent down. So, why was liston sprawled on the Mat? Boos and shouts of fix flooded. The small arena has listen rolled onto his back instead of going to a neutral corner as the rules dictated after a knockdown Ali loomed over his opponent he waved his arms and shouted get up and fight. Nobody will believe this liston enrolled back onto his stomach and tried to push himself up to one knee. But he fell backwards again. This time he was down for more than fifteen seconds. The rules required the count to wait until the fighters scoring the knockdown went to a neutral corner. In this case Ali yet timekeeper frank. Mcdonough began his count. The second listen hit the canvas. What's more Ali never retreated he even asked his handlers did I hit him with the Referee Jersey Joe Walcott struggling to send Ali to a neutral corner he never made his own count instead Walcott proceeded to wipe down listings gloves the usual move after a knockdown Nat Fleischer editor of the Ring magazine was sitting ringside and shouted for Walcott's attention. He told Wolcott that the fight was over in pointed to the timekeeper but only the referee can count out to fighter which Wolcott never did besides the timekeepers count was wrong. However Wolcott was swept along by the information he'd received he stopped the fight in raised Ali's hand in victory. The whole thing was a mess pandemonium erupted ringside more chance of and fix build the arena for fifteen minutes after the fight was over. As Ali told his corner Listin laid down. All, he knew his short inside punch. The one few had seen wasn't powerful enough to knock out the former champion meanwhile enlist corner his handlers cut off his gloves. He stared in a days straight ahead while no one said a word. Once again, a listen fight attracted the attention of lawmakers and investigators. With Punch no in scene and a fighter who literally took a dive. This bout was even more suspicious than the first bills were introduced in several states to ban boxing while Congress proposed federal control of the sport in FBI investigation into whether the fighters had been bribed or coerce lasted more than a year. Even FBI Director J at Hoover got involved yet speculation behind that Phantom Punch lingers to this day. Next. Episode will explorer some of the conspiracy theories surrounding the scandal like conspiracy theory number one, the Mafia forced listen to throw the fight conspiracy theory number two list and through the fight with no outside influence because he bet against himself or because he didn't want to face Ali and conspiracy theory number three members of the nation of Islam threatened to kill listen and kidnap his wife and son. If he beat their champion will also look at sunny listings mysterious demise just five years after the fight. Rumors of an overdose, a feud with drug dealers and debts to loan sharks all clouded his cause of death. But they may provide answers to what really happened with the mysterious punch. No one saw. Thanks for tuning into conspiracy theories will be back Wednesday to explore some of conspiracy theories surrounding. Sonny. Listens fight with all the will also look into listens mysterious demise, just five years after the fight of the many resources we used we found the Phantom Punch by Rob. sneddon helpful to our research. You can find all episodes of conspiracy theories and all other park cast originals for free on spotify not only. Does spotify already have all of your favorite music. But now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like conspiracy theories for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream conspiracy theories on spotify just open the APP and type conspiracy theories in the search bar until then remember the truth isn't always the best story and the officials story isn't always the truth. Conspiracy theories was created by Max. Cutler. In his park has studios original executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler sound design by Michael Lang's ner with production assistance by Ron. Shapiro Carly. Madden in Joshua Kern this episode of conspiracy theories was written by Ken Pisani with getting assistance by Ali wicker and Stars Molly Brandenburg and Carter Roy. Listeners trust me. You don't WanNa miss the intense new podcast, original series medical murders. From Trauma Surgeons to hospice staff, medical professionals are trained to give exceptional care. But what about those? who used their skills not to heal but hurt? Every Wednesday meet the worst. The medical community has to offer men and women who took an oath to save lives, but instead use their expertise to develop more sinister specialties follow medical murders free on spotify all wherever you get your podcasts.
Ep #389: Customer Engagement with Sonny Patel
"Hey everybody happy Monday and welcome back to episode three hundred eighty nine here on the daily grind hope everyone had an a fantastic weekend. We're back here today with an amazing interview with Sunny Patel Not GonNa WanNa miss this. Everyone be sure you have a pen piece of paper. Sit back and really get into this episode with Mr Sonny Patel Today's reviewed the day comes from the impact. Mike Collins using his platform to have game changing impact in the lies lies of others. I'm a Fan Mike Flynn host of the impact entrepreneur show. Thank you so much for Mike for the wonderful review. If you WANNA be featured on review the day all you gotTa do is go to Itunes in leave that review. Thank you everyone for the continued. Can you to support <hes> okay so you need a website when you starting a business. A website is a cornerstone for your business generating revenue making money I used wicks to create mind brand new see website and it was so easy to use and looked so professionally done. This is the first sight that I've ever created by myself in the past. I've had to pay someone to build it for me and I just love how wicks allowed me to customize customize it to exactly how I wanted it to look. If you're super creative not like me but you can build it from scratch or if you're more like you could start with a template which gives you a really solid base to build off of and then from there. It's automatically optimized optimized. Any device desktop are mobile. You don't need to be a web designer in order to do that. Honestly it's just so easy to use anything you don't know how to do their support and videos there to help you to make it even better they have built in S._E._O.. So you don't need to be an expert S._E._O.. To make sure their website gets noticed online and you don't have to pay someone thousands of dollars to do so either now of course I'm not going to rave about this and not share with you so if you or anyone you know wants wants to create an amazing website. All you have to do is go to Wicks dot com forward slash podcast to get started for ten percent off today to make it even better this month alone. We are running a contest where one lucky listener when a free one year upgrade on wicks where they're going to be able to access all the amazing add on features and tools if you want to enter this contest all you have to do with email me a link to your finished website before July thirtieth and therefore therefore my team and I will select our favorite at the end of the month again to get started with all of this all you have to do is go to wicks dot com forward slash podcast for ten percent off today. Welcome back act to the show everyone on today's episode like I mentioned we sit down with Sunny Patel who is the founder and C._E._o.. Of ensure me an A._I.. Based engagement platform for insurance carriers he started the company just three years ago at the age of twenty one while working as a sales sales director and financial advisor at a top life insurance company where he realized the process of buying and selling insurance was unnecessarily cumbersome and outdated he was determined to change this and went to work to develop a solution that would simplify and take the guesswork out of the insurance buying process that solution that would eventually eventually become sorry ensure me now ensure me is being used by a number of top cheer global insurance carriers to easily generate new business online streamline customer claims and deliver excellent customer service through Conversational A._I.. Today on the show sunny shares is amazing entrepreneurial journey drop some awesome some value for young entrepreneurs out there so again like I always mentioned reshare you have a pen piece of paper and really dive deep in today's interview and without further Ado please meet Sunny Patel. We'll Sunny Patel. Welcome to the daily the grind. How are you today good? Thanks for having me absolutely man. Thank you for so much for being here and sunny. If you wouldn't mind for some people listening being I introduced who you are what you do if you wouldn't mind to speak in a little bit more on those two yeah I'm the founder and Chief Executive Officer of ensure me where a digital engagement platform startup bay set of Phoenix Arizona helping legacy insurance companies take a new approach to customer engagement for both <hes> for sales claims on customer service. How'd you get into this like? How did you develop this platform? What was the story behind wanting to start insure me yeah <hes> so when I was a freshman in college sir working at a life insurance agency just down the road problem <hes> my university at A._S._U.? And a whole variety of things like sales marketing operations and saw that the way we were doing business as a company as well as an industry as a whole title was really complex outdated <hes> off line a lot of things were done on flying and I saw a huge opportunity for digital to play a part of the value chain <hes> especially on the customer engagement side right so left that company and decided to try to fix the problem. I saw working at at that agency. Did you always have sort of an entrepreneurial spirit so to speak growing up or is this something that at one time you just saw the opportunity and jumped on it. I mean looking back. I I guess I was had that entrepreneurial spirit. I mean I come from a family of business leaders so I grew up around businesspeople and you know just I think when I was about five or six years old like it did the lemonade stand thing or actually lived in Africa for a little bit so it was it was <hes> we do lemonade in in when we're living here in the U._S.. And then when I was out there I was selling <hes> Aguado Quadri in the in the backyard. Yeah just always had that I had spirit ingrained in being from an early age so you were working insurance. Obviously you saw the big opportunity because things were sort of older so to speak and not as modernized. How old were you at the time when when I started working agency House nineteen and fended insure me I was twenty one years old? I'm twenty four today while when you started that did this start as a side hustle or is this something that you just left in jumped all in almost like a initially started off as a side hustle literally in my dorm room at A._S._U.. Okay and. And <hes> just started school about the market see if there was an opportunity here <hes> and then once I was able to validate some assumptions in see that this was worthwhile opportunity to pursue I give you my resignation should there and then <hes> founded insure me in the summer of two thousand sixteen. Where does this hunger come from because I remember being in college? I know what college life is about and so two listening right like you're more into two partying. You're more into friends. You're more indicate all these different things. Where does that drive inside of? You did that come from at that age yeah. I don't know I think just naturally I mean I still did trust me. I didn't party and had friends and all of that but I think I kind of I. I did all that real experience all that in my first three years of college and then that okay I want like develop past that right wanted more in line <hes> so I think the hunger just kind of or the fire ignited and that point but again you know I've always been I'm always trying to think the next step and how to make things better and I don't know I really don't know where exactly just no deaths. I mean you have this idea but obviously there's a lot of people out there with ideas. You acted on this idea. was there for a point where you were starting out building this platform where you kind of had like a little bit of a holy Shit ship moment so to speak like what am I getting myself into. Yeah I mean I mean it happens to me every day so <hes> it's not like that was just back then when I started but definitely when I I got the venture going as we started to get meetings with like executives at all these different insurance companies like things started to get really real fairly quickly and then landing are big customers <hes> yeah all the time. I'm like I have to look just take a step back like okay while we're we're actually doing this. We have <hes> real responsibility to our shareholders and customers all of that stuff now <hes> but yeah I mean it's it's always a new challenge every day at <hes> I guess I yeah I don't know how to phrase it. Just one of those things of course what do you think is. I mean sort of building on that. Maybe trying to get your perspective active on this. Where do you see the disconnect based on? What I talked about where ideas are a dime a dozen? Everyone's got them but there's not a lot of people who are acting on those ideas. Why do you think that is a couple all different things so it comes down to the person right I mean if you have an idea and the will to make that manifests that into reality you'll do that with or without money? I think a lot of people when I speak to some people like Oh. I have an idea for this that but I don't have the money to Yup. I think that's the flawed mentality you should have you know if you have a great idea and drive and all that then you will attract capital for your idea than to make it into reality <hes> but I think a lot of people just see kind of <hes> <hes> the monetary barrier as sort of thing that stopping them from actually manifesting their idea into reality when to be honest with you just like a achieve excuse it's and we see it from am sure you see us to you. See it from so so many people who are wealthy or or high achievers how even they say like using other people's money is the key to getting money like oftentimes when we think of starting a business or think getting into real estate we think we have to have the capital capital but oftentimes we don't know no and that's how I mean. If you understand like you know see how companies are built with venture funding and all that and then go to the public markets I mean the majority of that <hes> capital. That's fueling growth is it's not really you know organic capital that the companies are bringing in at least in the early days so there's always gonna be. I mean if you're gonNA do something worthwhile. It will attract <hes> you know talent <hes> from all over the place as well as capital from all over the place so yeah I mean it's by the way to look at capital is almost too. It's like fuel right. Once you get a load of a fire going. Would you should be able to do without money. <hes> then you you bring in fuel that get from other people right so that's like your investments and then you throw that fuel on the fire to make it grow larger yes. How did you create that initial fuel for yourself and ensure me? What was that fuel for you? Yes Oh oh my God a lot of credit cards and the greatest idea to to get the initial funding if you will build out like our initial M._v._p.. EP and hire consultants and designers developers all that stuff <hes> my initial fuel was obviously I worked at that agency so I did save up. Fortunately I did use them like basically all of my extra <hes> loan money from the school. You know that I'd had leftover yep use sad maxed out all the credit cards I could get <hes> just became very creative because I knew the reality that I wanted to create the product yelling at you. Bring to the market so while I was fully okay with taking that amount of risk a lot of people would be like why are you doing that. I'm especially back then but I was confident in the outcome so I was willing to take that this yet and that's sort of you had that you were sure of what you were doing and I think that people look at your store him or like maxed out credit cards. You're getting there sweating they're like. I don't know if I could do that but I think when you're sure about something that makes it easy yeah yeah exactly it just comes naturally. It doesn't didn't feel like risky either. I slept perfect <unk> night but most people will be like <hes> you know this is a little distressful or or crazy but the the payoff in my mind was was well worth it. No doubt so I mean like Hewitt said you were working in the insurance company. It was outdated. It wasn't consumer-friendly now. You come in with insure me. was there a period of time for you or maybe you're still going through this where you're sort of having to educate the marketplace on what what makes you different and why they should be going with you. Yeah I mean from the beginning from the day I started the company in till now. I'm always out there at conferences on different panels and doing different talks. Komo industry related conferences than <hes> primarily educating the market on the need to adapt their business model to new customer expectations right that our tradition that are basically on digital <hes> so oh it is a lot of united getting these insurance companies to look at the opportunity differently look at their their challenges differently see what's possible you know instilling <hes> that sense of hope and possibility into what could be possible if they were to adopt a technology like ours. I continuously do that and we'll continue to do that as we as we grow do. Are you a tech guy yourself or do you feel like you just do you had the idea behind it and then you find people to do the tech exactly yeah so. I'm not yet to write a single item goes but I did. I did design the initial like prototype on Photoshop who was really badly designed and I may put that in a book one day as screen shot but like yeah I did the design so I kind of knew what it needed to do and what business challenges it needed to solve for <hes> both on the company's end as well as the the actual end users <hes> and so I just found the right people you know the right team members I think as you grow a plan to grow fairly large company so I'm not going to be able to be the master at everything <hes> and so I prefer to just hire the best people all for the roles and I think that's being really crucial to our early success. No doubt so I mean obviously when you're starting a business you're into networking and sort of creating a wide network for yourself. What there's some things that have released sort of helped you can help the business sort of pushed forward so to speak yeah so definitely networking so like the <hes> when I had this idea when a straight to the entrepreneurship department ended at Arizona State University reimagined insurance in there <hes> he usually a student doesn't Dallas that idea but <hes> so they connected to me with like a lot of the <hes> the the business leaders in the Phoenix startup ecosystem mentor since like that so I really started to build out my network early very early on and we also went through multiple accelerator program so we went through the global insurance terrance accelerator okay <hes> which is industry specific one out in Des Moines Iowa <hes> we went through that program last year and that really helps us fine like the product market fit and and then we just recently went through to plug and play accelerators todd in Silicon Valley and Singapore so and those are more vista opportunities but those were kind of the two that really fueled our initial traction not so for people who are with an accelerator program made wanting to get into startup? Can you explain a little bit about what an accelerator program does yeah so they take basically they'll take a company that would have traditionally as some sort of minimal viable product so you have some sort of prototype or have well-thought-out plan to bring a product market and an accelerator would connect you with a whole variety of mentors <hes> the usually will invest in your company as well to get you capital injection of some sort and that can vary yeah accelerated accelerator <hes> and it's usually three to four month long program so you basically have to move to most accelerators to weather located <hes> and stay there on the around for a couple of months but it's basically you know exactly as word is you know accelerates your <hes> your growth within a very short period of time yeah so it's like total immersion so to speak yeah yeah because they wanted to give the they wanna get the most value that three months so <hes> they most accelerated will will make you <hes> drop everything and move there <hes> but it's well worth it because if you can find the right you know no your specific industry related accelerator then there's tremendous value there no doubt so outside of talking specifically about the accelerator programs I WanNa know sort of what you learn not only from that but from also mentors like you had mentioned that have really helped you but not necessarily in the business sense but how have they helped you personally. How have they help you? Like what habits have they created in you. What are some beliefs that they've instilled in you that of really sort of made the difference yeah? I think there's a lot of them and you know you kind of like download them as you go and you definitely <hes> think about it until you reflect I guess but <hes> some that I would say is always asking what you can do you for someone else. I always been observance and trying to help people yes the obviously helped me and try to pass on that <hes> that way of life through my efforts as well by helping other upcoming upcoming entrepreneurs. That's a big ones who always you know always trying to help that guy next to you and then also personally to just you know making sure that I think about it work life balance on so the venture doesn't become your whole life because I see a lot of people where they have cool companies that everything they make a lot of money but then that's basically at you know there's no loved as family friends like anything else. That's more important I would argue is just not there so they've also helped me always keep that in the back of my mind so I don't pick on like one of those people that whether we're just conceives their reality and and that's super important for mental health 'cause that does doesn't happen in business with entrepreneurs that happens in sport. I came from a sports background that happens in sports. It's almost like your identity gets linked in with what you're doing and these entrepreneurs start to think of their own success in happiness is based upon what their company is doing and there's a real disconnect there and I think it's really important what you said of having that balance and truly knowing that like who you are as a person has nothing to do with who you ars an entrepreneur and what you do at work right exactly I mean there's more to just value creation. I mean <hes> and I've seen a lot of examples. You know that's what I'm very cognizant admit I mean people all the time travel in and all. That and I can see it and I'm like Oh God. That's definitely not what I want. You know so I always try to balance work in life. So even if I'm on a business trip travel quite a bit for for the company but my work is maybe a half an hour meeting one hour and then then I'm exploring the city and having a great time so <hes> I just tried to balance it so this at the end of the day like everything that I do not feel like work even right now I mean I literally don't feel like I work while doing all of this stuff <unk>. How long did it take you to sort of develop that way of thinking I would say after the the agency I mean it took some time right in initially in your early days? There is a lot more stress going on and and you're you're one year outlook is not as clear as it is today <hes> but I think once you refine your vision and and <hes> had a clear vision than it's it's it. It just doesn't feel like work and I'm passionate about what I do. The problem that we're solving accompanying the market so it's just to me. It's just I wake up in a problem solved chocolate people and things like that. I think what you had said there about. Having the vision is so important what I think people are frustrated with is their inability to establish that clear vision for themselves right like they know what essentially they they want kind of of but they don't really have that thing that gets them at a bed. Is there something that you would suggest to people like that which would help them get a little bit more clear on on their vision of what they want yeah and I I would just say you know try to just do what you lobbying do. Put yourself in in line of work or industry that you're passionate about and then reverse engineer had to make money on it. That's what you WANNA do. <hes> not the other way around <hes> so I think that could be one way of thinking about it and then you know outlining your just general goals for for the year and stick it on your fridge. I mean I have like Mayan. It's icy every eh walk out of the House and it's kind of like your subconscious will just download that you'll automatically work towards it almost like a vision board right. I mean that's another form of of doing it so <hes> but I I would just say it pursues pursue like a your passion and then the commerce follow love it for people out there. Who have that idea that business idea <hes> potentially wanted to do something like you were doing during the early stages? What's the biggest piece of advice you'd give to them? I was just say stick to your vision because you're going to have a lot of people Paul that will say Oh. No this won't work and this and that most people right if you think about it like I would save a ninety four percent of all the people you'll meet in your <hes> and a lot of times these investors and things like that <hes> they will give you. They'll give you one hundred reasons why it may or may not work right but I think <hes> if you just hold your ground and you and you have the confidence to move forward that I think it'll take you a long way. 'cause I see a lot of people where they will have a great idea listen. They'll ask people and again like nine hundred ten people will say may not work but he shouldn't listen to nine people. They can't see a reality then it's going. Let's just keep walking. You know doubt or find nine other people that are doing what you're doing and get their opinion oftentimes. We're getting from people that are exactly and you can't blame that right. I mean you can only see your own breath at the end of the day. Like what reality are. You're about to create <hes> tomorrow like so. That's only coming from your mind. I think <hes> just you know obviously refining how you articulate that people will be very crucial. I'll bet I wouldn't have anybody else's opinion kangaroo in your in your mission overall mission no doubt sunny for people at their who wanted to learn more about inserm me ensure me so hurry also connect connect with you. Follow along on your journey. Where's the best place they can go yeah? Lincoln is the best place I'm not twitter person so I don't have twitter handle linked in so it's just I think Gordon Dot Com Slash Sunny Patel ninety four. I mean if you just search me it'll come up founder and C._E._o.. Of Insurance so always happy to connect with people on Lincoln and yet it's Kinda the best platform for me awesome I will share that Lincoln show notes to make it super simple for everyone to connect with sunny here and now sunny the way we're going to end the show here is we're going to give you the floor and you have the opportunity today to share with our audience the thought of the day so one thing or one thought we can all Oklahoma today. Yeah I mean I would say <hes> thought leave. Everyone is to look at old industries to create value right so when a lot of people younger people think about creating startup startup they immediately think of starting the next facebook Amazon while those are cool companies. There's so much value can bring built in the world if you can partner up and try to reimagined traditional industries and this can can be industries like Insurance Construction Law <hes> government <hes> industries that have done things certainly for a very long time they need great innovative minds like entrepreneurs whereas to bring innovation adapt their models for the twenty th century so you can create a facebook like company if you if you look to additional industries which I think is you know often overlooked. I completely agree to that and as you can see from this interview everyone's success is driven by passion hunger and today learning from traditional industries. Everyone has to overcome obstacles. Everyone has a story start. Start Building Yours today today the chance to speak with the Amazing Sunny Patel Sunny. I WanNa thank you so much for taking time to your schedule coming on the show here with us today. Thanks for calling I really enjoyed it. The pleasures all ours. Everyone enjoyed today's episode episode first of all be sure subscribe to the podcast. Drop us a comment. Let us know what you liked. Share this with your friends until next time. Call him more consigning off and always remember to keep on grinding.
Phone Scam Lost Hearing Aid
"Mojo in the morning phone scam classic phone scam. Friday. Let's go back in time to win spike scammed Sonny Alex and Lisa and the whole crew at a sporting goods store spike his going to play a little senior citizen on this scam he's going to be a customer with a hearing problem. This is probably one of the most requested Mojo in the morning phone scams of all time we will. We will scam you. Sorry Catchy Song. Your home phone scams Mojo in the morning. Hello Hello. Yes. Hi. WHO's this? Davis who's this Donnie we were in there in any ways I was bending over to look at some of the sporting goods there and my hearing aid popped out. And I couldn't find it. But the guy working there told me to call back today because maybe they could find it when they clean the store me say hold it. No I ask the gentleman charge and he said nothing. No I'm sorry I can't hear you. I was talking to someone we're going to go check the lost and found for me. Are they did there's nothing that showed up. Okay I'll hold. Hello you're back. Yes. I know nothing showed up rate how lady open come pick it up there is none don't come. There's no, there's no hearing aid here I'm sorry. Hello yes. You said you were going to go check now. We check there is none. All right. We have none I. Knew it was there. Well it's not here. I'm sorry I apologize I can only hear every other word. No No, no, no no. Okay. I got no no, no, no. No. Why didn't you just say that from the START I've been on the phone for five minutes. I did because you kind of left me hanging I'm sorry I asked him I said no and. I lost my hearing aid there in your store. We don't have anything here rate. How do you open come? Pick it up. Man We. there. Okay I'm sorry what time Ma'am we do not have your hearing aid are you don't have it? I do not have a hearing aid here in the store Oh Jeez why don't you say that you left me hanging for like ten minutes on the horn here. I've been trying to find it. You think maybe it's in a different department. Man Do you have the right store this. Sporting goods. Okay. Great. So you have it. You don't have it I. Don't have it. But will you check? Hello yes. Yes. We haven't found it yet. I was talking to someone else they were gonNA check lost and found for me. Yeah I just spoke to the owner and he doesn't know anything about it either okay I'll hold. Hello you're back. In a store worry what you find nothing. Where did you find it? We haven't found it. That's just it. Okay. We'll go looking hold. But look where man. Well we were with the fishing lures. Much. Pretty broad description, but hang on a minute. Okay. Thank you. Yes I didn't see it anyplace, but I'll say afternoon what do I wait for you to call or should I come down? Come on. Okay now I don't drive but I could send my cousin winky. If he now you said you should ask for WHO Daryl Alex Alex O'CONNELL. I thank you for being patient with me. Okay. I'm going to send winky down. We call him winky because he's one I bought about three sizes bigger than the other said always looks like he's winking okay. What I can do about finance. Thank you didn't find it. Oh Why didn't you say that from the START I've been waiting hey up here with a brush hook. Yeah. We. Scam. Entertainment purposes only. Putts, he just got scammed. We will we will scam you Mojo in the morning your home with the world famous phone scams.
Terrible, Thanks For Asking
"Hi I'm Nora mcnerney and this is terrible. Thanks for asking. In Our last episode we met Brit, and if you have not listened to that episode, you are not allowed to listen to this episode of not letting you. I will pause it with my own fingers reach through your phone. You're listening device I will hit pause you can't listen to this. There's not a lot of rules at this podcast and mostly nothing is in chronological order go nuts skip around. But in this case, you will want to listen to the previous episode which is called untying knots so don't listen to this one if you haven't listened to that one, but if you did listen to that episode welcome back. When we left off, it was twenty sixteen and Brit and her husband Sonny have just had one of those fights adum fight where looking back you can't really remember even what it was about just that you were mad and you're probably right. And in that moment, Brit calls of all people that she can ask for relationship. Advice. Harry. She calls hairy. The Guy who was married when he got Brits mom pregnant the guy who told Brit that he would never claim her as a child. She calls that guy. Who isn't that guy anymore because? He's dead now. So she calls her Dad and he tells her look nobody's. Sunny is not perfect. You have to talk to him you need to work it out. With his was his advice. Good. Did. It work it. Did and and even if it didn't, it's just by he gave some you know what I mean. It's something I felt like I was waiting for my whole life and finally something that he was able to give but it was just so interesting to me that that was the first person that I reached out to. It's not just the advice that matters. It's the fact that she thought to call her dad at all. It's the fact that he answered the fact that he listened. It's the fact that it's just Britain and her mom against the world she has her husband Sunny and she has a dad she has a sister and she has her dad's family this whole network of people that she didn't have before. How had your growing a relationship with your dad? What did your mother think that I think she was actually happy about that part of me thinks that she's just like well, this guy has nothing on me because he really wasn't around. So this is cute what they got going on, but it doesn't compare to the relationship that you know me and my daughter have 'cause I raised her but I think she was very supportive of it and she was very happy that you know we were talking and she would even say or ask me like, Hey, like did you talk to Harry and so yeah, I, I think she was very supportive of that relationship. Sweet. Yeah like she got what she. Wanted from like walking into that diner right? You know like exactly. So it's like mission accomplished. So many missions have been accomplished in Brits Life so far her mother Marva has recovered from breast, cancer. Brit, has finished her masters in mental health counseling and she started a private counseling practice. She and her husband Sonny or married, and they're ready for kids. After childhood of stress and anxiety and anger over her biological father abandoning her things for Brit were not terrible at all. Brit had spent her teen years resenting and sometimes raging at her dad. But now she gets to spend time getting to know him, which is also a way of getting to know herself. was able to learn a lot of I am as a person that came from him like he's a very chill laid back person and. I feel the same about myself. You know it's it's cool to kind of be able to say like I'm just like my dad because I've I've never been able to say that prior to that conversation. So we were really able to get to know each other he was very excited about. Me Getting married he was very excited about the prospect of him being a grandfather to potentially a grandson because he already has a granddaughter my niece. Sunny and Brit are not pregnant yet but you know dad's excited and he's ready to order grandson. Dad has also well, he's not retired, but he's supposed to be retired because he's old enough and everyone is telling him to just. Stay home. Do a crossword. But he's still working and one day in June. He has a fall on the job and he's taken to the hospital. Brit, sister calls to let Britain know and it's not a huge deal she says, and so they were like running tests finding out what was going on. So I was talking with my back and forth with my sister back and forth with you know a few cousins on that side of the family and just kinda getting updates and information in a I. Think I felt like, do I need to come in? So my sister's like I don't think you need to come you know everything is pre. Okay. He's just kind of banged up from the fall. So I think as time. Sorry to go by they started to kind of find things they found like a blood clot I. believe. I'm not sure where exactly it was in after finding the blood clot things just kinda rapidly started happening. Brit gets developments from her sister and from her cousins and they assure her that she doesn't need to fly out dad will be fine and then a few days later, the phone rings again, and it's not fine. Brits Dad is dead. Britain Harry had come so far in these recent years, they built relationship I by tying all of those things that kept them apart the anger, the shame the guilt. and. Now just when things are getting. Really good. He's gone. This is the second father that Brit has lost but unlike the death of data where Britain and her mother weren't in the obituary or invited to the funeral home where she learned to invalidate loss and swallow her grief like a hot coal. This loss is different. Of course, it is Ritz grown up now and she's a therapist herself. She knows how important it is to grieve and she lets herself do that. And I remember at the burial you know as they lower the casket and I was just looking down at the casket and I said to myself you know I'm glad that my tears are tears of grieving the loss of a loved one as opposed to. Grieving the. Lack of an opportunity to mend this relationship or even guilt like these tears are not tears of guilt. They're not tears of I. Wish I would have I wish I could have I wish I should have these were tears of I'm really GonNa Miss. This do by was pretty cool. And I'm sad that we won't get an opportunity to continue. To have that they didn't have to be angry anymore. I didn't have to be angry because I got it all out and in my Nissan Altima my altuva outside and my first apartment I got it all out and I told him everything that I wanted to stay in. He heard it and we were able to move forward. You know with all of that information. So there weren't any tears of anger. There were any tears of Gilts. No tears of regret it was all. Sad morning for this person's life that I will no longer get to have. More. Brittany won't get to see her dad hold her kids. She won't get to invite him out to new. Jersey for Christmas you won't get to call him the next time sunny ticks her off. She got ten years with him as her dad and. That's it. That's all there is. That's all there ever will be. But at least I was able to learn or at least my father was able to teach me that I have to be vulnerable and a half to communicate the hard things and even when you communicate the hard thing, sometimes you don't get the results that you want, and then sometimes you get these really great results and so I think that's what. My father taught me in being able to. Be. Open with him about how I truly felt and I'm talking about everything from the anger to the rage to disappointment to the embarrassment all the way and south was able to bring that part into my marriage, which may vary you know successful. With me and sunny. Sunny. The Pippen Brits Jordan, her husband, her partner. He's one of the people who will get her through this loss who will keep helping her say yes to her life into her own goals. Grit and sunny are opening a group private practice for mental health counseling. They're running a small business together building a life and a future together. which is big because Brits the only child of a single mother she spent her childhood trying to make sure she never had to find the answer to the question what will happen to me without my mom. Having a partner is emotional and physical and financial security. All things that Brit longed for when she was growing up. When I became like a woman and I started to do like woman stuff flags taking care of myself and paying bills and having to like through your life situations on make really tough decisions. I really start to look at my mom as a woman as opposed to like my mom you know and things that happened growing up. I'm just like well, I get it now and I understand her more and I can have more compassion because now I know what it's like to be an adult has responsibilities. So I, think the more you become an adult, the more you're able to see your parents and even those older adults in your life as actual men and women. Brit sees her mom as a woman who worked really hard for her child who was hurt by men by life, but still kept going. And this is not just in appreciation of what Marva did for Brit. But how Brit grew from all of her mother's pain all of her mother's struggles. Brit is a highly competent adult woman because she learned from her mother's example. Because even though she's had to unlearn a lot of her mother's emotional habits, there's no on learning that Marva taught Brit how to keep going. How to survive when things felt unsurvivable. And in twenty eighteen when Marva had already moved to Louisiana to live closer to her own siblings, Brit is going to need those lessons than ever because I is sick again. We'll, be. Right, back. We get support from your lap if your blinders Lincoln if you have this sudden urge to keep very common by the way, you just have to P and he can't hold it. Your lap treats that urge you ever peed your pants because you saw a scorpion, your lab with auto. Cagle is the award winning FDA cleared way to improve your wellness control your urine, and maintain your freedom in the privacy of your own home. Get fifty dollars off at your lap dot com use Promo Code Tefa at checkout. That's why A. R. L. A. P. DOT COM Kotei Tefa at checkout. We get support from purple not all pillows are created equal. That is what makes every purple pillow mattress. Magical purple has a patented comfort technology that instantly adapts your body's natural shape in sleep style. My sleep style is face down the purple pillows engineered with the grid for total head and neck support an absolute airflow. So you're always on the cool side of the pillow. My purple pillow is on the way. Okay I am anxiously awaiting it. You can experience the Purple Grid and sleep like you've never slept before by going to purple dot com slash thanks ten use Promo Code thanks ten and you'll get ten percents off any order of two hundred dollars or more. That's purple dot com slash thanks ten Promo code thanks ten for ten percent off any order of two hundred dollars or more in terms apply that's life baby. We're back and Brits. Mom Marva has cancer again. So. At this point, the breast cancer has kind of leaked into her long and her liver. So now at this point, there's so many different complications from now having. Stage four, breast cancer and so on. Top of MOMS preexisting conditions, which was diabetes she had high blood pressure. She had kidney issues from the diabetes. So we kind of knew that the prognosis wasn't great. The first time marvel was sick. She'd passive aggressively expected to drop everything and move back to Chicago to take care of her. And Brent did not do that. She'd instead visited every month sent money and hired the help her mother needed. But she'd stayed in New Jersey to build her career and her relationship with Sonny. This time is different in almost every way. Has Just Lost Her dad. The fragility of life is obvious to her Marva is once again, Brits only parent. So Sunny Brit. Drop everything and head to Louisiana. I remember getting to the hospital and you know seeing her and she was just so excited to see me and she was trying to talk and I'm like, but you have a ventilator like you can't talk to me like but you knew she was just excited to see me and I believe she was also excited to see Sonny also, and so she actually survived at. So she got off the ventilator she was able to go home really like the month of May and June I was basically in Louisiana with her. Brit is there in Louisiana because she wants to be there and because she can be there because the life that she had wanted to establish for herself when her mom was I sick. She established it. was already established as a business owner already established as a therapist with clinicians of group private practice. I was fully able to kind of be in the moment and ask the questions you know face to face with doctors in you know really be with her and really understand. What was happening to her and what I needed to do to be supportive towards her? As a kid Brit lived in fear of her mother dying. Without mom where would she go? Who would take care of her? What happened to her? But grownup Brit doesn't have that same fear because while she takes care of her mom Sunny takes care of Brett. I always said that you know I'm going to marry a person so that when I do eventually bury my mom or you know have to take care of my mom because of some kind of medical issue, they will be right there by my side to help me and I knew that something that Sonny was absolutely hands down capable of doing and that's exactly what he did. So moments where he was just like, okay, it seems like you need a break maybe we should stop maybe let's go take a walk. Let's go take a drive and then we'll come back to tomorrow. She and Sonny due at all together going back and forth between new, Jersey and Louisiana to take care of the business and to take care of Marva. And things just continue to just kinda decline like she wasn't really able to be in the home by herself. There has to be like someone with her there was like hospice care that was involved in. You know we got her into a nursing home and I'm looking at her and I'm just like this woman is so full of life like she would just randomly start dancing in the middle of the house. Or you know this woman had such a a sense of humor that was just like, wow, that was like super, Winnie like where did you come up with that and I'm like this woman is so full of life. So to see us even talking about hospice or to see us even talking about a nursing home is just like that's devastating for me because I'm just like she's just so full of life. Marvez death is Brits. Biggest childhood fear come true. As a child, she'd worry that if anything happened to her mother, she'd have nowhere to go. Nobody to care for her. But when Marvin dies in July two, thousand eighteen. Sunny is there. He makes Brett. Weekend in New Orleans after the funeral. Hoping to help her recharge and reset before they go back to new. Jersey and back to the rest of their life. a life where she and Sonny take care of each other. And there's a comfort in knowing that even though Britain is now in adult orphan sunny has her back. She has a place in the world and it's with him. But here's the thing about anxiety. It is irrational. It doesn't say to Brit look I know your mom is dead and it's bringing up a lot of your childhood fears. But Hey, relax now you've got this guy. At least. Not For long or not loud enough. That Comfort Sunny provides it doesn't relieve that deep seated anxiety. She's had since childhood. That sense of instability Brit has been trying to stabilize her entire adult life. Instead, the focus of batting's -IETY, just Ships. Question that lingering question than I always had grown up with my mom now is of shifting over to my spouse where it's just like if something happens to you what's going to happen to me, and so I think I was very anxious about something happening to him. You know just don't go to the doctor home I got. It's the most annoying. Annoying and it's just like just like the first time you went to a dentist was when he was like thirty, one, thirty, two, oh my. But here's the kicker. The kicker is that he didn't have any cavities. So, unfair. Very unfair a heat. I hate that and same with my husband. But sunny gets it. He knows why Britain is worried about him. She just both of her parents and from day one. And Brits relationship has been about mutual care. You. Take care of ourselves and that's taking care of each other. So they do that, Sonny goes to the doctor and everything is fine. He's fine. So the plan is to keep being pippen and Jordan. They're ready to have kids. They're still building their business and it's time for a quick break. Hello everybody. We have a new show to tell you about it's from APM. It's called. Don't ask tig where comedian Pignataro Dole's at the best advice she's got with the help of her friends and guess what her friends are famous because so is she so here's the thing. There's no topic too big too tough for Tig and her pals to tackle they. Will take on cancer they will take on wedding DJ etiquette heartbreak shared office pastries in. If you want my opinions on those, that's that's just too bad pigs. Got It. You can submit your questions to dig at don't ask Tig dot org guest this season include Michelle Buteau Glenn Doyle Sarah Cooper, and more listen to Dennis tag wherever you listen to podcasts. We're back. It's December twenty nineteen and Brett is having one of those days where you're just kinda bad mood for no reason like for example, Brit who's always a pretty laid back person is having this meeting with a colleague and she short with her just Kinda. snippy. It's just an annoying day. and. I get a call on my phone and it's a number that I don't recognize the number that's not saved and out usually pick up calls that I, don't know and I remember thinking to myself like I have to pick up this call like even though I, don't know who this is but I know I have to pick it up. So pick it up and it's the church, and so the church he worked at. The secretary who also happens to be like his work mom she calls me and she says, are you with sunny and I said no, he's. Up The street at the store or getting something for the church. He's also like you know getting paper for the office and so she's just like you need to go because he just collapsed at the best buy and so everything in me was just like wait a minute what like I just saw him like we had breakfast this morning I asked him to deposit some checks from the office and I had given him the checks and we said I love you and he went to best buy and what are you saying he collapsed? When brick got the call about Harry and the calls about Marva there was never anything she could do right away. There was this cooling off period of forced kind of perspective created by that distance it takes time to book a flight takes time to pack a bag takes time to even decide if that's the right course of action. But Sunny is her husband and he's up the street at best buy so Brit runs out to the parking lot and remember. Sunny has the car. So my office managers running after me and she's just like I'll drive you. So as soon as we pull up, there's Cars ambulances outside and my heart just sunk even more like I felt like at that moment I was just GonNa. Pass out and so there was just something that said Okay just keep moving just keep going and so I go in and see him on the floor and I see them working on him. And there's multiple people around and they put me in like the small room by they're just like, let's get you away from the scene. The Room, they put her in a security room where for some reason, Brit concede the security camera footage of the paramedics working on her husband. So she's not away from the scene actually has a better view of the scene. And she doesn't like it. Think I. Remember like pushing the screen off of the desk. Because I just didn't WanNa see it and at this point they're saying to me, we have a pulse. We don't have a pulse we're GONNA take him some hospital right now. Brits Office. Manager drives her to the hospital where there's another room for Brett another place for her to wait for the doctors to come and give her an update. And when they do they tell her. That sunny is dead. I'm like, no, that's not possible and I actually said to them. You're shifts aren't over your job is to save lives. So you need to go back in there and save his and I remember getting up and literally pushing them to the room that he was in like I wasn't violently pushing them I was just like our guide like let's go back to her back to word actor. Except that inside. Of that it's not a no, it's not a no and so they did. Brit has lost two fathers and a mother she survived she has thrived, but she is not going to lose sunny not yet not like this. For Twenty more minutes, Brit waits for a miracle. For Better News. He came back out and he's just like there's nothing more than we can do. And I remember thinking to myself like. This is something that I was not expecting, and I say that because you know sometimes I tend to run on the invite decide on that comes from my childhood of course, and so the anxiety for me helps me to plan for the future it helps meet sue navigate what's going to happen next and this time around just like this I was not prepping for this was the person. That I was supposed to spend the rest of my life with this was the person that I was supposed to have children with. This is the person that we were supposed to ride off into the sunset and do really great in influence the people around us together. This was not supposed to happen and in my mind I'm like we're wearing you anxiety. You didn't prep me for this. And there were moments in time in our marriage where I think I was very anxious but then there's a part of me. That's just like I can't be anxious about this because I'm losing out on precious time with him. So I learned how to begin to manage my anxiety around his health because I realized it was a direct connection to my excited about my mom and that whole piece of dispersing supposed to take care of me, and if something happens to them, what's going to happen to me? It's December twentieth. Brits Office Manager Takes Over. She calls all Brits Friends to let them know that Sonny has died. Brits best friend from Chicago is on her doorstep by eleven that night? Another friend canceled a trip to Florida with her boyfriend to just come be with Brett. Four of sunny sisters or out of town but the one who's in New Jersey rushes to be by Brit side. There's a funeral. There's Christmas. There's that immediate impact death that. I. PLOP into those icy waters. And then there's just life. Struggled with the phrase acceptance of grief early in widowhood obviously, I accepted the loss can't reject it yet can't send it back a cold burger at applebee's bad example applebee's would never serve you a cold burger. The point is I was not denying that Herron was dead Brit not denying that her husband is dead. But any therapist including Brett. Will tell you that acceptance is really about how you incorporate the loss into your life. It's about what you do with his shoes you do with your life moving forward. It's about truly living with the reality of the loss. and. That's a process you go through as life goes on it's a process that's familiar to Brit because she's done it so many times before. She did it as a small child when dad died She did it as a tween when Harry told her to never address him in public again that she would never be his daughter. She did it when Harry died and she did it when her mother died. It's not unfamiliar territory, but every loss brings you to a new place in grief. There's that old adage about how you never step in the same river twice. Grief is like that too. It might be just as cold, just a swift but the grief she has, for Sonny, is entirely different than the grief for her mother or for either of her dad's. And it's about more than just death. It always is, and so the primary loss is actually losing the physical person, the secondary losses really losing the function and the role of that person in your life, and so for Sonny he was so many things for me when it comes to him, being encourage her I mean he'd be making it lighter. He being encouraging me left and right about like you know how things are going to be okay like he was such a settler. Settled everyone in and brought so much calm to everyone. There's also the acceptance of what will never be. Written. Sunny. Were trying for kids and since his death. Her period is late. You know I was trying to decide like is this pregnancy or is this grief and I'm just like I'm sure it's grief. But let me just check because we have been trying and we talked about starting a family that year and so I said, let's do it. Know let's see if I am pregnant. If she is that's a little piece of sunny. It's a big little piece of sonny that she gets to keep. and. If she's not, that's another loss to process. So she buys a test, she pees on it she waits two minutes. And then she looks. And I I wasn't and you know to be honest I was crushed but then I was also relieved at the same time and you know I really not to pat myself on the back but and I know this is gonNA sound strange but. I guess I'm really proud of myself for being able to hold two different spaces at the same time. You know because it was that one space. Oh, I really wanted to have a kid because I really wanted to have something that connected me with this man is entire life and at the same time I'm like I'm also relieved that I'm not because I don't really I wouldn't want to to have a child said to raise a child by myself without him like if that was the case then obviously that's what I would have to do but I would just feel so sad for that kid that he or she wouldn't get a chance to experience how great their father was. What Brit just said there about being able to hold two different spaces at the same time that is the greatest thing that you can do for yourself when you're in pain. We tend to think of empathy is something that we extend to other people and yes, absolutely do that keep doing it but we need our own empathy to we need to remind ourselves that more than one thing can be true and. Usually, it's That, we can hold pain relief in each of our hands that the things were sure are at odds with one another or more complementary than they are competitive. Because baby is not the only connection that Brit could have with sunny. When she and I speak, it's been about five months since sunny died. She is preparing for his birthday, her first without him and. She isn't just morning him she's celebrating him. A person of faith and I'm a Christian and so I believe that Sonny is enjoying eternity right and currently with God right now and I'm just like if he is having the time. Of his now afterlife, right and just having such a a wonderful experience in just full of joy. Why is that something that I cannot have access to for myself? Not every moment is going to be joyous tap at every moment is been be happy. But I can still make room for those things because I think what happens is that people look at people that greave or even widows because now part of the club. I think people look at widows is these one dimensional people that are always sad and that's not the case you know we are still very multi dimensional especially now as widows because there's multiple feelings that we have throughout the entire day, right so there's sadness. Happiness you know sometimes there's you know maybe some some guilt maybe there's some resentment in the navy were back to feeling content again. So we're not these one dimensional people that are constantly sad or just constantly just in this state of. Breathing. People have to understand when it comes to supporting widows. When it comes to supporting people that are grieving, we can't put them in this glass box where we just kind of shove them away and say, well, you know what they're grieving and they're sad. So we're just gonNA leave them alone right and that's like the worst thing that you could do for anybody that's grieving and so. Invites Widows and people that are grieving places gives us choices than give us on these because that's what's going to help us to heal. It's too soon to say that Britain has healed. She's healing and I think it's always an ing which I looked up and that is a jared, not just in ing which I vaguely remember from. Ms Maureen Desmond's tenth, Grade English glassware she administered the slade grammar test and I failed it three times, but still became a writer. But Brit is healing. I've heard different therapists and people who have been through therapy say that you should treat yourself as kindly as you would your five year old self. But. Brit is doing something even better than that in something I think could be so helpful for grieving people who are missing someone who loved them. She's treating herself the way that sunny would treat her in even during times where you know I have a business in the middle this crisis in. So it's just like you know how my navigating that and there's been so much work I've been doing for the business. It's not even funny and if he were here, he'd be the person to say you need to take a break or here's a cup of tea or here's some water or here's lunch. Or. Here's dinner I'm GonNa Start on it and it's like now I have to do all of that on my own in. So I think it's so secondary grief moments that hit me really hard because it's like, okay. The reality is I'm here and I'm quarantine by myself. Right and even if it wasn't a quarantine situation and I was still out and about doing things, my team mate isn't here. My partner isn't here you know like Jordan and pippen like. Heaven's not here. You know what I mean. So it's like it's just Kinda Jordan doing everything on his own and he can't as great as he was, he can't do everything by himself. And Brit can't do it all either. The thing is she is on her own the answer to that childhood question the question that persisted through her dull hood what's going to happen to me? She's living the answer right now and every day. What's going to happen to her as unknowable and unimaginable. When it comes to grieving even though she's a therapist, she is not Jordan. She's not pippen. She's whoever the last guy on the bench wa she's the water girl. She's the kid who wipes the sweat up after the players fall. So He's jealous of that kid I would have been so good at it. Point is even though she's a therapist even though she is an orphan widow Brent like all of us still figuring it out no one knows how to do this nobody knows how to grieve nobody knows necessarily how to help someone that's. Grieving were all figuring this out as we go one day at a time and sometimes one hour at a time so all you need to do in this season of someone grieving if you're a supporter of someone that's grieving is to just show up like just show up like just be there and if there's something that you know the person needs be that person that can say, okay, I can do that for you or if you can't do it, I can find someone that can do that for you if that's what you need right now. Sometimes. What we need is completely impossible for us to have. We want the person who has gone and there's nothing anyone else can say or do that will make that happen for us that will replace that for us. And if you're a grieving person who is listening to this and you're like, but I don't know what I need I don't know what to tell people. You're so lucky. We are so lucky that Brit is at therapist because what she said about being able to hold things. We need to do that I. And for each other over and over and over, we need to let ourselves miss what we lost while also letting ourselves live on. If to let ourselves hold our heartbreak and our hope at the same time. Accepting what she lost when sunny died doesn't mean that sunny is locked up in the vault of her past. Acceptance is not a closed door. But an open one. And you can see that in the way that Brits relationship with Sunny has continued to evolve since his death. Brit has friends. She has family she has tons of people who care about her and she still misses sunny. She still wants to be a mom to be a wife again. And she still misses sunny. Their relationship is over it's just different and when Britain needs help that only sunny can give her. She still turns to Sonny. There was an issue that came up in the business and I said to myself. Okay. What was sunny say to me right now because Mining diabetes taking over I. AM trying to figure this out myself, but him just like what would sunny say I really just kind of take step back in I closed my eyes and I think about exactly what he would say and I think that's what helps me feel close to him because of the fact that he was able to be so calm. So on point. So encouraging in the moment, which is absolutely. What I need. So whatever I need in the moment, I'm able to pull it from a place that he would put from. Which is why he will be my family forever you know what I mean even if you know if I Decide you know at some point in time to remarry like whoever remarry has to be the most secure person ever because. He has to understand just sunny will be my family forever including his family is family is family. We're going to be family forever, and that's something that whoever you know comes along will absolutely need to understand. This has been terrible things for asking I'm Nora mcnerney. Our producer is marcel molecule help from it Jake Maldonado Medina Hannah me Ross. Our digital producer Jordan turgeon editor Philip Fletcher and our theme Music is by Joffrey Lamar Wilson. We are production of American public media and this episode of this podcast is dedicated to Sunny Tamara. Harry and to. Thank you for sharing your stories with us.
Interview with Pamela Enz and Alexandra Guerineaud discussing their upcoming film project, Airtime
"Hello. This is Eric. Morris Eskenazi I am the founder of the Digital Publishing Company. Intra tones. Thanks for tuning into this latest podcast episode of Iraq dispatches featuring interview with Hamlin, ends and Alexandra Grennell. Discussing their upcoming film project airtime, which spans over two decades, can six, eight, nineteen eighty. Pamela ends is a playwright and author of city girls in desperadoes Casa Blanca in Hudson. Alexandra Grenal is an actor writer. Producer of many projects done both here in the US Hanan her native France. Hello thanks for listening to the erratic dispatches podcast. We'll be back shortly after the break. Although I've been using anger dot fm now for about almost a year for the podcast Herat dispatches, which is distributed through anchor dot FM completely free to use very easy and any audio, the upload or record through the website. Will Be, you can use it to organize your audio files, and once you're ready to submit. You'll be available to stream within at least eight different streaming sites. This project airtime. You've been preparing for the past fifteen years. Yes, yes, literally. It happens. Really debut was young. Daughter was young in a long time ago. I wasn't much I didn't know that I know I was like you know I. I was concerned I was concerned citizen in our. You know interested in different things by wasn't particularly political I had not not too which faith in the system or I didn't understand. The system I was more into just enjoying my life. I basically when people doing back on stuff, I was in Europe being very. Happy ex Patriot not living the backpack I was living in Miami spartans with great people. Traveling up whatever. it was just fun was just fun, and that's why was but when I had a baby. What happened originally was that You know I was so in love, and I thought the marriage lasts forever, and very soon afterwards I came to the realization that I was going to be taking a child by myself, and we ended up in the something called alphabet city. You know what that is Alexandra. One of Yeah Alphabet City is well. The East village by knows East village, but beyond the East village after I, avenues a. m., U., A., B., C. and D.. And, they're like this funky place that time people were scared to come and visit, but for a friend of friend of a friend I got this like floor through what they used to. Actually you attendance men I immigrants came over, so they would like these floor through apartments that would have one bathroom for a floor, but whatever I had four rooms at ran in a row. That's why they will railroad flat and a bass bathrooms the whole toilet. In it was the bathtub in the kitchen in the whole, the whole apartment attempted to the right. So to walk on. Angle. But in any case. It was really interesting. It was really diverse like it was a guidance. So Lucy's at the corner I don't know Lucy's artists. Do you both know Nelson Lucy's are? When you don't have enough to buy a pack of cigarettes, you can go buy two full quarter. and. This guy was little kiosks in Hughes Arabic, and then I started noticing that. Day was very quiet, but then you see head Go Down, then you see head. Come up in use trains ally. And, then my daughter, a Puerto Rican babysitter that I had enough money for two hours. A day to run down with her run back and right then you know, had the Italian Deli owner and his whole diverse beautiful neighborhood of crazy people. My friends were afraid to come, and I'd have to literally throw down the keys when they open cabin. Come upstairs and I felt safe because. Doug dealers the popular on the corner. They would watch me when I walked down the street with a baby stroller and I knew that I was saved so anyway. This is how I was living I. Don't know I'm telling all this just coming to new but so I one morning I was just lying there with my baby and I smell the smell. And I. Don't know what the why was what it was, but I decided to. All of a sudden this whole story came in my mind and I started writing down the US at the age when she would would be able to sort of follow instructions and she knew that I wanted to write sides. Get me my stop. And she ran and got a pencil and a piece of paper Neil. She she was very happy, and I just sat underbid because writing and writing writing, and it was just a story about a woman whose child speaks to her. and. She said she's going to die, is she? Only she's not staying on earth. And all the doctors are saying it's failure to thrive, and she's hearing her baby. Tell her no. That's not why I'm here. I'm here to tell you something and it gradually. I was gonNA write this whole story about I guess ecological damage. That's how it started. And then over the years I was out to the be foundation And he was tremendously. Generous in mentoring me. And I went to the library and I started searching all of a sudden. They have become like this epic romance in my head in all of a sudden I started. Researching back stories for my characters and became an actor because I was studying everything from sixty eight to eighty, eight and new can studied that period of time without being. Inundated with political use in causes in destruction, I had no other Access to, but what really happened in this is a really most important thing that happened was i. was actually literally visiting France in one, thousand, nine, hundred eighty. And there is all the International Herald Tribune. Reporting on this story of this riot in Tompkins, square are my neighborhood I live two blocks from there, and it was like a police state. Now reading about all this craziness that was going on and I wasn't there, but when I came back, my whole neighborhood was like a was taken over by cops. There was a paddy wagons increase vans. Tomkins fear constantly. They just stayed there and every morning. You would hear like helicopters above us, and then you know that they will come down to get somebody out of buildings like this waters common cleaned up. They've been living for years in or to code within the they was. Juliani was sending them into at the mall out so every time you heard the helicopter. She knew that these people were going. You could see it being dragged out on the street. All the stuff thrown in bar which. I had mine story. It was like nine, hundred, sixty eight, and I started researching and I thought I was just gonNA use the obvious one. The Democratic convention when they got beat up Chicago. And Dan when I studied similar I saw especially when I became more conscious of all the the tenants of the trilateral commission, and how they really wanted to destroy a people I mean generally. They wanted to make life harder. They wanted to make it so hard. That was nothing left in people because they were struggling so far there was nothing left to care for each other, and if people don't care for each other is no way to have a democracy is no way to compromise is nowhere to care about the. So I saw that happening and then I research some Warren I saw this whole thing I never knew I feel asleep terribly ignorant of Ralph Abernathy campaigns who he was me. And I found out nineteen sixty eight there. Was a peaceful thing. And then again the police came in, and they sorta rioted on the people, and they destroyed their village, and they really heard a lot of people so I decided that was more interesting to start there. In that in that thing now I'm actually. Thinking we spoke the other day about the Wall Street. Thing that was also thinking about that, but I'm not sure if I'm ready all that in. The Wall Street riot hard hats came down and beat up the hippies who protesting in state. I. Don't know maybe with that, I'm not sure. But on about the Tom Midland. This I'm not sure Alex. when did we meet? Rented we meet. Our admit how. Would, that's that's interesting. The very first time we met was in a restroom at Sundance. Maybe like nine hundred, ninety nine I want to say. That I think it was a little later finding, old daughter, or maybe two thousand. It was it was. It was a while ago. It was a while ago. Years I think. Now it was a very. Brief encounter, but we have a serious conversation. Et in in about I. don't even remember what we talked about. Though we had this this exchange in the restroom and you have to go somewhere and I had to go somewhere. We exchange cards. No, you give me you get up. He and you gave me a beautiful picture with your resume. I was repaired. And and you. Know I really liked you and I had this gut feeling. Okay, because I met how? People, you meet and Sundance. You go around all day going high high high. And shaking hands and You stuck with you. Go back to your hotel nighttime. You're going, is this? Who is this? Oh my God. And what yours? You're put aside, and I said Okay H.. Some reason I knew something I. Don't know what I knew I just knew I was going to take your picture and keep it and literally, in period of time I must have five times. Every time came across. You picture. Thing all. Throwing this out ideas. Women gave it to me with face. She gave me this thing and she believed that I might one day. Call her so I'm not a garbage. I still have it I mean I should send you you used. It's funny because we had a very similar experience, even though we were not in touch because I felt exactly the same thing and I I like you said you know you meet so many people at Sundance. But you stood out, and you came back to San Francisco I lived in San Francisco at the time, and I was like okay I'm going to write to this woman and I. Find ever since the Leonard or not did. and. Every so often for years. I was like okay. I wonder what she's up to you always in the back of my mind, and then what day it took me two years, she reached out to me on Facebook Messenger I did not see the message I saw had like any two months later in son-in-law. How did I miss this? And that's how we got reconnected and I was in the middle of maybe I was shooting. Frenemies you ray I'm not sure or if I was in post production whatever, but I was in the middle working by. That's how we connected through work. Very impressed and then I was very excited to you. Okay now you know because I still you acting and it was a wonderful. The fact that you had stayed stuck to it. You know a lot of people go to Sundance. Send Out Ers and ten years later today five years later. They're not in the business anymore. But I saw that you have persevered and you were doing this wonderful doctor. So that was very Saudi to me. Yeah, it was. It was very interesting, and then you know you send me. Your work kept talking and everything and now finally. Our And Cross! I don't know how we decided I. Don't know how airtime became something that we decided to do. It was just all of a sudden. We were talking and I. Literally Eric. I saw that airtime was finished. Sort of finished and then those combination. I guess I. Don't know what the combination of just felt wanted to use thinking about it. Then I started researching France during that period, and then I got this realization that we in America are so arrogant. We always think nothing happens except here and. With. The reason anything happens, and I started seeing that in France at the time. That was very different. They didn't just have a bunch of students. They had the whole country. They had everyday citizens across You know across across ages in own little towns and Oprah testing and support each other. Juno were about that. Can you describe? Riots in France I mean to us the way it is presented to us in France's is a student a revolution And it was about the bourgeois class and. And and I mean I. Don't know very much about it. I'm not going to pretend about the. Unions I think part of it was at one thing they everybody's sort of struck because some unions were being Threatened and that's why it became more universal, and not just kids. Yeah, yes, it became political I mean. That's the way every riot works in France relieve. The unions are very very serious and powerful. And so, and they really want to defend the workers rights so whenever there's any change the the. The unions really just. In a rise and and say what they have to say. Do you what about now in France do you know what's happy now? In terms of riots, I sees the yellow shirts and I'm not even had the yellow shirts I mean that movement has been going on for a while now. I don't even know how long it's. Like, a year and a half, or so maybe I think that's the reflection of. The general. The, General. Malaise can't think of the word in English the The fact that the system? As not been. As pretended to take care of the citizens forever, and little by little, they realized all of the things that are happening where they're not being protected and more and more is taken from the people. It should be more. Morris asked them they worked so hard and at the end of the month. They have nothing the. So, many people in France have by. You know three weeks into the months. They have no more money. To buy food or anything, and it's supposed to be this country where people are taken care of. And and the people that they always go to fix the system. Always the same one was. It's the middle class right so that's really what it is. It's just people are sick of the rich getting richer, and by the rich you know, we mean the corporations like the the the system, basically banks and them not being taken care of and it's continuing, and the government's no matter what hardy the governments are from. They're just not getting it and they're not listening and don't keep any more. You know I think the thing that I didn't get into too much I got a little bit into Casablanca on the Hudson I got into it because I learned about it then, but the fact that in this is why I'm so upset about the political thing. That's going on now. Everyone's Biden by binding I. Keep saying you know these are the party. The forty years that have been spreading this philosophy o.`Neil liberalism around saying globalism it's. It's GonNa. Take care of people. Meanwhile, people are becoming more impoverished in high of one percent becoming locking in control while the world's resources. It's really really horrible and scary, and and in the fact that it's not gonNA reported. It's not anything out there and I only know how you can stand against the system. Anymore I think that's why I would like. The fact of airtime ends at nine, thousand, nine, hundred, Eighty, eight, because I think that. After that things really change I think that. You know what's happening now is we don't really have that much. We don't have enough. Power really changed things. I don't know how we're going to change them because what happened with. My friend in France I spoke to yesterday. Saying trump must be really smart if he got elected. You know and I think trump got elected. Largely because the other party really didn't care that much, and then the corporations were making money off of everybody watching him on television, so they didn't care. We're going. We're twenty four seven Yuji viewership, so we're getting a lot of money from advertisements and we don't care. Give trump twenty four seven at billions of dollars to put his base out there. That's how he got elected, but it's like nobody really cares what he was planning to. And who the I don't think we live in when he did. To me at increasing the thing from I moved to the US in nineteen ninety six. Nine ninety-six and I had an idealized version of the US growing up in France and you're bombarded with Hollywood and all those things and so. You grow up with impression that the US is this massive power who understands who got the key the secret to happiness? And Right. Excuse me and they got it right, and they got it right exactly and looking back. It seems that actor eighty-eight. We fell into. This. Massive this mass entertainment culture where everything became really really fast like I, remember when I came here I on vacation, going to the gym and seeing like CNN and being bombarded with all those banners, and and and so much going on like I didn't know what to us into what to look at and this impression are we don't really want you to. We just wanted to numb you. We don't want to get the information. We're trying to get to this role part of you where you're just going to react to you I, love it I hate it. I'm man. I'm happy, and that's pretty much it. We're working on for emotions. And and and And from there you know then when? I mean apps like social media of baseball, and all those things came in and really nurture, and now with. Were always hooked to our cellphones. and. It's just we are those. We work on dopamine and adrenaline and that's. It and and and that's how to me. Trump got elected because we've been numbed. For decades little by little we've we've worked it into our system and he's saying the right thing the right time. You've just throwing a lot of candy. People responded to that you know, and then even talking about every stupid thing. He says it's it's magnified in and people repeated and repeated and repeated. Shut the fuck up. He says something stupid say he said something stupid and then Milan. Don't keep repeating twenty four seven till he says nothing another stupid thing you know. We did not give him that much attention, and we did not him airtime he went by. You'd be nothing. It would be nothing without. That's what he lives on any order from, but that's getting back to airtime was i. felt of I used to like pitch. The story I would say that theory dispute story is between nine, hundred, sixty, eight, and an illuminated today for some reason I think elimidate's today without even talking about today, and that's why I think it's A. A really efficient good tools put out there is it gets people to think. And when people came first to Casablanca one, but also just to the table readapt for script. They were really really got it. It was so amazing, and they really wanted to talk about it, and there were engaged in. It was like you know the damn. It was like. Oh! Wow, yeah, you know and that was very exciting that you didn't have found anybody on the head. They thought story. Yes and that's really That's what. Seduced me unattractive in your work. I mean I read. Everything you sent me cast on the hunts on the Hudson. They were monologues and. What I loved. How It. It just helped me understand how everything? The puzzle like the missing the missing pieces of the puzzle that helps you understand you're like. Oh. Yeah, everything is connected going back to the sixties. And you see how everything unfolds and works and the repercussions that has today once you've started that thread of this is how it was put in place. You don't really need to explain how we got there today and And a half to say You, were you write beautifully and crystallize the odds and such a poetic way? It's very powerful, emotionally intelligent. And that combination I think is very very powerful. And that's that's what talked to me. It's spoke to me. Thank you. Eric I want to know if you had some questions i. And I'm really wanted explored for myself is how and why? We got why it was so wonderful to put apart in for Alexandra of French journalists. especially a friendship photojournalists who would be working had worked in the front lines of Vietnam. Do. So basically. What happened when I started researching to find out? If there's any French journalists, Vietnam I found out of pondering of French women. Soda generalist who went there and why they went to say want it to. First of all, the wanted to cover something significant, and usually they would take. The female reporter is make them stay in the back like world with the nurses. And because there are a lot of guys that didn't WanNa go to the front anymore, or they just weren't available or they just they didn't want to go to the front, so they did. They said okay. Go ahead, nurses nurses go ahead of female journalists. Try Your luck cause. They were the only ones who are willing to do it, and it turned out. The combination of skilled workday mostly wrote. wrote the pictures to go along with the work and bravery in how close they ought to be able to take. The pictures was amazing, but I think. Maybe it was the seminal moment the empathetic thing that if a female has non meg being sexist to say that, but the pictures are so moving and so powerful, so a couple of them got to the point that they were Pulitzer Prize winners? And idea is one that I. put it into the script on. There is the head editor of Washington Post. Who is getting upset about some of the Some of the female reporters got so close to the people. And they were putting themselves in more danger, and he said look no more. Florence Nightingale you go the hospital. You're on your own. He wasn't saying. These daycare Izzo us just saying if you fuck up and you get hurt, don't nobody's GonNa save you stout. Don't be Florence, nightingale just fucking work. But the the the reporters did both they ended. Some of them died and a lot of them Just to it amazing work, and then retired usually into some of the social cause of. The? Receipt so what her character now is a combination and there was a piece in the in this movie I think that this woman This is the whole trio that I start the movie with is least main characters, just a young girl who's a college student. She's pregnant from. Older lover and they go to this events and this. A young working cop was enraged mostly at the front his masculinity. This is long hair. And he doesn't work you wearing girly clothes and he has this beautiful bureau with him, so this whole thing happens. He gets beaten up then she. Would have body over him and everybody's everybody runs because they're scared. The two of them on the ground is leading. The young is leading, and she's trying to put her body over his checked and his rookie cop comes and is doing this in a moment of cowardice, the ducks in hind her. He doesn't know reflexive in the cockles, and it's the woman and she miscarried their news this whole. Scene and she's just bloody. In terrible scene at you runs away just runs away. She becomes catatonic. As you runs away to France just runs way to your because she got to go far. And she ends up in a small town in France the ends up the middle of a riot, and she doesn't even mean to be there. And she had a tonic in like the noise, and the fear that people running in every by screaming and she they're screaming in French to top it off and this this is female reporter sees her, and she has to have this fight between being professional and getting the story, and in seeing this woman who can't move his endanger in these you know. These cops are coming with a riding on horses, and she just knows so she rushes in closer just out of into safety. And then she stuck with this woman who can't speak WHO's instill traumatize. She can speak and she brings it back to her apartment and this gradual thing of bringing back to life. Is the story and then Women also watches her preparing to go to her all the things she has to cover this war cover that war to sees how she sets everything up, and she sees her preparation, and so later on when she goes back to the states and her. New Born child comes to her and says you know I'm not here. I'm not here to stay and I know that fetuses even speak to you because my own daughter did that, and she said these crazy things, even at the moment of conception, she said I'm here. I'm a girl. And I. of course it was you're nuts. And then she said to me and on a seven Mama on a seven. And then don't throughout the whole thing a little things she'd say then people started saying what she say you know. Everything. She said came true so Um. Jewish born, my sister was all packed. She thought it would be the seventh of the seventeenth, or whatever, and then all of a sudden. She says I'm coming tomorrow morning. So the next morning. Of course she came, it was the twenty first. And my husband was on seven. I was born the fourteenth, and she said almost seven to mommy. In cool so in any case. fetuses in babies and newborns can speak to your mother. So she says to her mother, I'm not staying. Yeah I. Don't want to stay here. I only came. To ask you one question. What did you sacrifice my unborn baby brother four? And that's it. And then of course, the Doctors WanNa. Keep this little thing on. Life. Support. And the Danielle. The the French lady flies over, and she really goes into super drive, and she's able to could checked the door where the baby is with mother, which taking away the life support and she. She does all her Jujitsu, but she gets knocked around again. She keeps you. Get beat up a lot protecting this woman and No, so that they can. She is out is able to let go have a baby. Let go of her life instead of suffering with all this mechanical bullshit for months or whatever. So. You know that's where they get reconnected, but. I figured out where to put the scene. Is a scene where this woman is prepare, husband thinks oh. She's just all in grief, and she's sitting around a bathrobe. And whenever he leaves, she starts pulling things out, and she saw doing what she watched the French reporter. Do Planning Journey. And she's planning journey. She knows that the end she's been sacrifice. Life says the only way she's going to get airtime. She's not going to get it. Says Yeah. I'M GONNA. Give it to you, honey. He's GonNa lie and he's not gonNA. Give it to her. Has it all figured out, but so the the thing that Danielle has to do, and she and a couple of other people wonder. Vietnam vet ones this woman. She meets undertrained. WHO's like an American female version of Eric? Hoffer? You know that philosopher? He's everyday philosopher and so they waiting for this thing, and so the waiting in Ohio because that's where the guys look more. Has His plane need pizza little plane there to keep? Beat on the land. So. She knows she's GonNa. Get on that plane and she's been blow it. And Danielle and the people are helping her. Also know that, so it's a very hard thing for them. They know she's doing it because she's principals. They know she's doing it because she really does not have anything to live for now we'll. She wants to live for is to get out her manifesto to get out all those things. She's learned in this journey at with all these demonstrations with all this politics of living. She's learned France and what she believes in her journey going across America, in which the Trilateral Commission, which is the same thing happened to me? It opened in my eyes. Because these people made this document, it was so arrogant they made it humbled, and they said this is what we're GonNa do it's GonNa take us forty years well. We don't mind about the forty years because we have time and we have money you don't. And we can totally change your society in forty years, and they did, and that's why we got trump. They made it unhealthier less educated most of all less empathetic and made light shopping a religious value. Advertisement comes in, so she knows she wants to get her manifesto out. which is complete opposite and she has to blow up the train plane and she's trusting that die. WHO HAS ECB trucker? He's GonNa drive away and get the manifest out in all the little truckers. Up Spreading because you can't really truck trust main init-, then you can't even trust mainstream nick media to get it out unless you get permission, you can cover story, but then they have all these little trump is going around all these little allegories in byways of American like Johnny appleseed all these you know like the whole tradition of when Ed social upheaval Americans are turned to poets. And it's a whole tradition, and so they are an outlaw heroes, the same thing as poets, really so they do that and it gets out manifesto, and I, really proud of the manifesto net actually. Took me from that stupid stuff. I also have all the stuff that I I started I had a friend that didn't type at the time. Infringement typed up this thing in so whatever all my notes from that and I started, but I didn't know what took. Manifesto is just very simplistic stuff and took me really literally fourteen fifteen years to write it to know what to about it, and it was really a battle cry against the Trilateral Commission what they had written near document, and so it would be really exciting and I. Think it's it's crucial to do it as soon as possible because I do that. They have they now. They I think. I spoke to you the other day now that they've done that. They accomplished that now going against the Constitution of Villa's lights. And they're doing really well because people are ignoring that like they did the first time. And that's why we got trump. If you take all these things. Leads to trump. It actually leads to trump, but I'm not sure that the people who wrote the WHO actually wrote the trilateral commission plan was thinking about trump. They're just thinking about. Holding onto their everything holding holding onto everything for every all time. And they didn't expect him to happen. I don't know if he's something victim to troll. And I think that's what's scaring them right now. Who knows. I hate the fact that he's gotten. All of these people onto the courts and they're doing all these stupid things that are legal I. Don't know why nobody standing up. Out. Ever stood up and said things like what's going on. Here was burning, but they. They absolutely silenced. Because? Some of the his part of He's so honorable that he knows that trump can't get reelected in knows that if you started too much, that's what's GonNa Happen Happen so he's trying to I. Think he's really putting. The country ahead of himself, but I I wish that he didn't I. Don't know. I know that he's been silenced. And now we have this shit going on about. I don't believe anything that I says and scary to think that that's the choice me. Read somewhere like online about the trilateral commission. Even President Carter was somehow involved in that. I. I read that too, and I was confused. Hello thanks for listening to the erratic dispatches podcast. We'll be back shortly after the break. Yeah, it's very complicated because when you start going into it. It's it's more complicated. what happened was. It was it was Zenit as something different. respresented as something that they actually thought it could do. Good things. Thought about opening markets and all that kind of stuff, but there was a lot of combination of people being very. Not Revealing it and the combination of them, actually leaving that certain things would happen if you did this. And when in far as a behind it all now, but when it became obvious, what would actually happen people that were you know they know? They thought it was GONNA be okay. and His promises made in protections and they. would. They know they didn't realize what was going to happen. What happened with is like what happens with a lot of things. Is, people come in very Venal, and they figure out how to play. Play it in a way that it's a good thing becomes something that really enriches them. Now, there's a lot of systems that get diverted very early, but some systems just get. People who know how to play things? It's like who who got the money from the small business loans. Not Small Business People. Thing but the people who knew how to play it the money. And they time they figured it out. They had locked in a system that you couldn't even. Verify what they did. It's like when. You know it's like what happened. When news was to give money to farmers longtime ago. All, of sudden conglomerates lofted it, and they get the money. I mean it's like good ideas. Get diverted because there's a lot of people that they figure out. How can you make money I mean? I am dealings. With the MOB, okay You live in New York. And you. In the movie business. You get. Dealings with the mob whether note or not, and then all of a sudden. You realize that you dealing with. But then it was like love this. Story Bet. I wanted I wanted a new apartment so I didn't know what to do, so I asked a friend of my friend got an advertisement New York magazine saying I will. Rewrite. I was gonNA say butcher They call it. When you do in, nobody knows that you did when you rewrite some doctor doctor doctor. Over an apartment so I got a bunch of replies, one was a rabbi, a New Jersey rabbi email. Another one wanted me to come out soon San Diego. Within. This guy called and said. You know my name is covered Missouri. Let's let's talk I said Okay so he rings me out to lunch. And would I had a whole bunch of whatever happened. We had this long conversation he said. Why don't we just go do some business? Why don't we make that movie at talking about new, wander days, Susa Jimmy suits. Girlfriend was connected to it Whatever you call it when they signed the paper. So I said okay, and it was like okay, and he said what you got read sunny, you gotTa meet Sunny, frame chasing my boss. Look Site Franchisee, and he's like. He died like two years ago. Hundred Years. Back in jail the last few years, but at that time us really famous because what he had done for. Decades was still only electric on east coast in run it and sell it. And he was really selling all he was running electricity seriously and what he was doing. He was managing the dude at a lower cost than electrical electrical company could do it themselves, so it was against the law, but he had very famous was he did it, and he wrote a book aimed Jesus and he was very famous, and so anyway back out and use the Boston matter where he was jailed or not Jill. And so they said that's me at the gramercy park near the gramercy. Par Hotel. At. The Bar is just a fun place to go Yo seen people from movie business. The're there's not like that now. They changed it. So. I'm sitting there and Roberts asked me questions as looking at Sonny and Sonny would go. You. Know like if I gave the right answer, so it was a whole thing. Had this whole conversation? I looked up needs like the one of the biggest mobsters New York's. So. We said like we do reading. Of A play I was doing city girls right? And So I don't know I. Guess This Theater Downtown Gave Space I. told Robert. We need like some. Orders in the beginning in will have this meeting and will presented. His friends will come and if they WANNA. Put money into the movie, but they're gonNA to like see like the plane and Austin was going to be in. It and wound flew in from L. A.. So I walk in the front. Make the announcement state welcome and I'm looking out at the audience. The whole cast of the Sopranos was there. The real passes Sopranos and then a bunch of other people that you weren't sure if they. Were active. They were mobsters in all their wives teased. You know they had the Cote saw. and. Enjoyed yellow game, right. And so you know Joey Galloway who he is, he's like one of the you know who is right. You don't know Joey Gallo. Is Oh my God we gallon. Joey Galloway, Sorry I'm going to be very. Limited year I was. London this guy who wrote I never cried my father one of those things that is apartment with a friend. That! I. Tell You the truth. I after you have this weird that you take it out recording. Maybe, he just back from Morocco. Deal all right, so we weren't really doing. I wasn't really doing jugular. His wife Said Take Pam with you. If you take him with you, you'll be safe, so I went to Morocco within then we come back. We're playing at. This guy did this You know he won all these things for those things we were sitting in his place, looking out into the attempts, and he was talking about so while he was dating. Joy was in jail. Look it up. You could see what had biggest mobsters of the twentieth century. And so his girlfriend was with Joey's girlfriend so one day some by consumers door in sort of like A. Named, George Raft one of those old, all mobsters in the forties movies and he's dressed like that he walks in, he says. Joey set. Any sort of like this is one of those things on the cheek. Just telling him you know you can be with this girl juicy. These are the rules. Anyway so now I'm looking at Joe. He's US at the show. And the the orders that Joe that guy bought for them little reading. It was like full created me you. Insanity is so insane, and in the end we went to some place to know you know. The check comes out and says hey. Don't worry Robert All what you know. Let me take care of you. And then there's a couple of reporters noonday new Wanda. They came over talk. Talking and Wanda was putting on this whole act and use, are you? Is it okay if I take over here is oh. Please tire I so tired of like talking to mobsters like being entertaining as it no, please. If you just be like you're. Do it all. She did the whole entertaining the mobsters thing anyway I. Don't know why I told you that, but So that's you. You work mobsters, but at a certain point. I he was calling me up in one phone call I somehow got hatched into all waiting US talking to his partner. It owned these big series of restaurants New, York new problem with them, so they were threatening each other and he was threatening. Don't though Yoga fucking year, my wife. Out Kill. You fucking whitens like Whoa. You know so they were threatening to kill each other, and then he gets back into the phone and say okay. RIBBLE, we're. going. This is not. Go this far. But you know in every, and he was really nice to wander need to the Austin. Any got a restaurant and I was able to go my friends. They are dinner I. Just show up in. They do the whole number with me and that was fun for a while to be able to take actors out like that, but it's. Push comes to shove. I just decided I didn't WanNa. Work with the MOM. I was scared and then a few months later. I heard he was in jail. On suspicion of murder home. And then Joey was back in the news again, because not broken his parole. And they put him back. No Sonny Sonny Sonny Sonny. They put him back in jail and he's like, and then they finally a compassionate release says he's like ninety five Nissan jail. So he came out of and he's still running the mob and he died. It was his big like world fuel from us. But I could have been involved with him, but I don't. I just didn't want to just end, but then we know that's the whole point of the stupid long story. Is that People that I won't name them, but they're very big New York stars, and they will all whenever they wanted to. Didn't they sell? so-and-so's going to be there. You know and. They, you know they say do Baldwin brothers. Billy. Ache and they said to me everybody does it. Everybody works with these is. You can't get a movie made in new. York without them. I. Don't know why people don't know that. These movies made him. Everybody makes jokes about it and stuff, but it's not a joke, and then one time he calls me up and I was getting I used to get mad Jim Yellen himself, but very dangerous wartime. He calls me up. On screaming and him, because you let me down with an appointment, and he's standing in funeral with all his friends. Because somebody died, and he's like an Elvis and I realized Whoa I'm treading on thin ice, is you? Don't yell at a mobster from his friends. Somehow, I, got away with it, but I was even yelling at a mobster. The feels people but I just didn't think it was a place for me. Anyway, but that could be a story, but I think there's been so many movies made about that and. About, don't you know that plays and movies and stuff? I think he's just been. And that's probably why. People myself included. Don't realize that it's real. Yet because you think because it's been on the screen so much, and it's been used in in other movies that are it's been referenced, and and in so many in so many different cultures to appropriate in it all over the world so. They do they do almost like a comedy exactly so it doesn't seem real. It's only when you deal with. You know when you talk to. People like you are I have other New York friends who've who? have similar stories to to yours and who have been in New York for you know several several like since the eighties and. And that's when. You realize. Oh, no, this is real like the stories you hear. You know that I've heard are really amazing about the the the freeway or whatever you call in New, York, the highway on how there's like Olga's bodies that are just. In there like what really that's real. All crazy things! Well, you know it's like what's his name Kapala? You know the the head and the head of the Of course guys thing you know. Is They? Control the human business? They. Do you know and they don't? They don't worry you know once they get you. They get you and they threaten you. They do whatever. I you know I don't know he will make deals with them all the time and he's very lucky. If you can get like one person dom looking for like my friend rose in user she Italian. And You know she goes against. She goes to Italy it's like very wealthy Italians who manufactured cars or do the things that we said of physicists a you know that kind of stuff or investors and I. Think it's much sane of policy thing going towards the mom. Far I know anyway, so, Eric. Do you have any questions you WANNA, ask sure we'll. Since airtime takes place during a twenty twenty year period is the script structure like a is going to be like sort of like an insult piece like a Robert all? Carriers, coming in and out, during the two decades of the, why would love to do a Robert? Altman film I would just love the idea close to that. It has allowed flashbacks. I'm writing. I actually. I I sent you. beat out of place, so it's GonNa be complicated knows a beautiful thing. That's of Sese once said. about the real spiritual hard of filmmaking is in the editing room. And I didn't understand. That was like editing like math. Drag but once I started doing it myself. I had she might apartments It was just really beautiful, but what happens the spiritual part of it is you have all these pieces and all these elements? You were there when they happen, but somehow they always said start speaking to you, and they have a life of their own, and there's something that's there that comes. From them that that just they get manifested so I think in terms of the flashbacks and all of that stuff you will just become organically obvious if you shoot them well, it'll become obvious like where they actually occur, and how they occur, but I'm trying to admit it's very hard. Cypress civil I have to map these three people. I told you about the Yippie leader took it from a real story. He comes a Greenpeace person. In those against the Japanese trawler WHO's? Going against the whale of pregnant wail. And that's, that's now cease of crazy now that I'm staying this stuff. I never realized that years died caused this abortion or miscarriage, and he's wishes, life Lou, rubber dinghy, trying to protect his pregnant Wale, who her made has been shot this crazy. Niger's whatever he's on speak. Japanese trawler shoots him, and then she starts going towards him and they're thinking. He's She's GonNa hit the boat, which is very careful not to arm anybody and she doesn't go any place, but to die shot. And everybody's laughing because it seems comical to them that she keeps jumping up to keep jumping up and this guy risk. He's like try to save her, but She doesn't, but it's very interesting now that I see is a combination that he was a coward, miscarried in business, risking his life to save which I never did consciously, but it seems to be a lot of. Connections like at. And his son later on when he's upon the in, she's hiding in a city with him, and they get caught up. In Tompkins Square riots. And she goes running out to riots and she gets in the middle of a melee, trying to save a woman little carriage and he ends up saving her. and gets injured. It's site the opposite. He carried to down the blog. No, he is back as all bleeding, and she's like limp over shoulder in Arizona down the block. And then I realized what was said Oh father was a coward and he is the young kids saves the same woman, but so all this stuff I think I wrote it, and it's also. Also something after realize we'd be writing screenplays play. You don't control it so much. It's almost like the blueprint. Nine people come in, and they start doing their things like the plumber or electric, and they started adding things in changing it around, so that actually works as a whole, so you have to give up thinking it. Would I think departments magic happens in the. So I think When you said it Mike. Do it like all film. Will do go in and out. I all film and I think I'm writer today because of Robert Altman. I saw his film. The wedding. I don't know that when and there was one actress in some crazy old actors running around a Nevoso her before and I thought Oh my God all these great performances in this is the only woman on interested in, and so I stated her name came up, and it was given to Kalin I and he was a Swedish actress. And I was. Let me drop some names near address main. I was sitting sitting with Cuba gooding and. Late at night. SNORTING, coke. And of this. Cable show comes up. There's this woman to live for us, and she says that she has teaching course. Ninety Sixth Street Y.. Ends but writers, so I tracked down and I. Get into the course. And I say hi, and then I read the thing that I wrote, and she stops the class, and she goes okay. Okay tomorrow come to my house. Special working together I want you to join. That was so I walked into the room the next morning the next day and there's a Anna deavere Smith. And we the only people in the group who wrote our own stuff. and. It was made me writer. It made me write it because I had the affirmation from both of them that I wrote this. Meant something you. Really. Really interesting. Yawn Vega he's tapped to be the director. And I. I don't know him much more than I. Certainly don't know him as long as I know Alexandra. And I. He was another kind of meeting like that. I think some of the best people meet are just like are things. I'm going to. Not So long ago year and a half ago. I don't know why we stopped talking. We started talking to each other because I was like all. Scuds Dow early morning. And just like joined, get some place for coffee and he's owes remember. I. Don't know why we stopped. We started talking and scientists minutes. Ladies, it okay I'll I'll edit that loop view. So little piece was US on the Hudson at Dixon place and I needed. To do a little crow, and he took something that I had made with my friend Julie and it was good enough. I thought it was good, and he made it tastic and he's bizarre. And he got it to me like eleven fifty nine when I had to get it there, too. But in the other day. He calls me is like is like I I don't know how we communicated, but it wasn't well is very famous. very famous for his edging. He's won the lottery awards as filmmaker also. And doesn't do other people's work in these very firm about that and. About the whole thing, and then you know all of a sudden. He saw the euro when he got into it. I was leaving him alone because he's very tempestuous. And that it's doing. He calls me at seven eighty cents thing at seven and he says don't worry. It's almost on I'll be I'll get you in a short while. then. It's like ten o'clock. Owing I'm saying to allies. Ones you call him. I've never met the guy we've never talk. The first time she's GonNa be producer. It's not the first time she wants Hey, would you do that? The thing you doing us for free? You just hurry it up. Right. Mobsters style as I am. The MOM. Yoga heavy hitter I'm GonNa get to four. Your hundred pound French producer. So anyways so basically though he had done something tonight. That was really beautiful. Inappropriate night started telling him why it was inappropriate. Okay, okay. So the next day. He's doing then He. He's much happier what she's doing. And once you get into something. He's really I. Love Him because he's like me, he's like. Very protectionist and he's like any sending me something and he. I have to change a shot. Don't do you look at it and I'm going to send you the other one, and then you can look at that and I'm going. I don't have time to do that and I send the first one to Alex nicely. Just case here's the first one. And you know it's really beautiful. And then he sends me the second one just in time and look at it and some reason I don't. I can't even tell what he did, but it is better. You know he spent another hour doing see said he changed one shot. And whatever did made the thing much better, and it was beautiful to begin with so we want that and. It wasn't anything I. expected. Wasn't anything I wanted? But it was gorgeous, and that's when you have somebody else's talent. Coming sneaking actually house like if I was actually having the film made that I would. Try to the writing is good as possible and then also hope. To with you choose you know the best people and then leave her alone. You know just trust and just once in a while. Come to the set with just trust. And look at things, and then it gets able. You know he could be just as just. That would just trust that everybody is. Will really excellent calendar bringing something to you know? Make I think it's really crucial to Juneau to lead the peace breathe like that and you have a vision you take it to a certain level, and then you find the people you connect wagon who connect with the material, and has you have those You have those conversations about it to make sure you know that you are on the same page, but then they. Ring on. Their ideas and their vision, and they take it to the next level that. That's not the one that you saw, but it makes it its own thing. And and to me like when I did a friend of Frenemies, you ray, that's what happens. You know with with my co writer wrote. It did something. And then we found the director Selene who just gets de absurd so well, and that's why I really wanted to work with her, because I had seen her work at the French festival in Los Angeles, and it was beautiful and delicious, and she took it to the next level, and she she saw humor where I didn't see it. She found she found other things. And then with that same thing with the editing process, and it seems about every stage it just. Breathes it until it just comes to life completely with the final. Project and that's what I love about. Collaboration is you don't know where it's GonNa go, but you trust that it's going where it needs to go. And collaboration that I think is in my heart. I'm collaborate. And I love. I love about film that it is true elaboration and you really need everybody on the set to be somebody that's right, even if the smallest job, they have to be somebody's right. The smallest eight percents of the whole industry, but when you get that chemistry, and you let a lot of Razi. Wonderful people work, it's it's wonderful what happens. When you give freedom, I think that he will thrive on thrust and non thrust. I'm sorry. Trust on trust and and. And Freedom, and it just allows them to be creative and and do their own thing. I think when you expect the best people. That's what they give. Kind of budget. Are you trying to raise further film? How much do you want to raise for? We need to make a solid budget. You know for sure but. I think we could probably do something decent with five hundred thousand. And I mean ideally I would love to have a higher budget. But we'll see we'll see how it goes with raising funds. I think five hundred thousand would. Get US something Why. Were lucky with the fact that we're GONNA be using the projections because we're not. Easy biggest spends it sets. We're using the. Clayton's and platens, giving us his work, because I also checked in the Museum of broadcasting a lot of of the demane of material, is available, and I think that we're going to get some kind of special look, but it also allows us to shoot a budget a shoot a film on a low budget low budget still get a high quality in terms of the way. It's visual the way it looks. And that's very excited about, too. Because also wonderful that you let people imaginatively bring stuff into that material. All that zero a lot of you know, and then to so of give them something that they can recognize and then bring all their memories of into the instead of creating some fake in saying here in no. This is what it's supposed to be. We're going to have what it is especially this stuff in constance It's GONNA be fabulous. No, you can, also, you can make people sort of go into it. Working on that. We'll see what happens. I'm very excited about an very. Hoping that we can figure out some way to get Alexander to start working with Nita to see them play out some scenes. That's what I'm hoping. Figure that out. I'm actually GONNA. Call their finish this conversation. Have you been putting together like a scrapbook of like images. I call. You want to look like like taking. There yet. I don't know who does that. Or for some Like all the work with Julie and and Clayton, and all the projections like for that part of the cinematic language. You have a very strong. Sense of what that is going to be. Ama-. Yeah, I I think so. Yes. I do I mean Yeah, yeah, we do we do we. Do. We just have to I! I don't know what I'm hoping to ask the need. When is this incredible space? Within a part. Of Brooklyn Bridge Park that she had as an art gallery, but it's close, but I those walked past it and thought Oh. That'd be great sound stage, so I'm GONNA. See available. You start using working with Julie to do more projections, but we need on I. Mean even if we get some. Of You, we could take shots of you and material already. Just to see how it works. I would like to do that. To figure something out. We have to get some sort of for budget I. Don't know how, but you know you start. We're going to start. The unleashed called seasons are is at the one. That organization have been involved in the Palestinian, really yeah. I used to go to their meetings and stuff different networking events. They had. Yeah, they're great. Doesn't I? Don't know anything about it, but doesn't Alexander said so. What do you? What do you think? What do you think it's a good place to go? What are you getting invites? It is why independent feature project or working with them terrain you. Know. As a good place, yeah! Only heard good things about them and now I know that role from festivals. We've been going to quite a bit of festivals. I've seen many many series. That are that have been Funded through a scene sparked part campaigns. And and and their approach to it's it's. It's a good organization with good people when I. And I I feel good about doing something with them. So else you know anybody that we could approach. Eric sorry. Of In in the in the industry no I've. Just been involved with I used to go to seasons spark meetings in the past, and then I've been involved also independent feature project. Missile, yeah no I mean. If you knew people at tied-in spark that you would recommend, start with I'm I'm a member meeting the two the two ladies who started seeing art. This is like a maybe a decade or so ago. That's an. Early early days, so it's been a while since. They've been around so long. It's amazing I. Somehow I never talk to happened upon them. Yeah I did something hatch fun for a while hatch. Funds people that I worked with started when they moved onto. Others things, so you know. They were very helpful to me to raise money for city. Girls I mean emily best is one of the founders of seed and spark, and she's also founder of a group. I don't know. She noticed group called out Williamson. Women in. Filmmaking and it's say. It's an online grope, filmmaker or or People identifying as as females and and it's a wonderful wonderful. Resource Tool and You know a networking tool. And that's how I know seed in smart because I'm part of her group and. And I've found for other shoots. You know that's how we found. cinematographers a lot of people. It's all I mean you know it's it's it's. Trying to promote. Women working in the industry. And so it's a very loving And I'm sorry I'm getting hungry when my brain is just like. Tired, okay Fabulous broke basically. That also we're looking for Eric. Maybe you might know this. We really because Alex is working on several things. I'm working on several things. and he knew somebody who was legitimately a producer or somebody who was working towards being produced. That's really what they want to do and me as opposed to like a writer actor writer, ooh! trying to do it somebody really. You know any people like that now I mean. Have you looked into contacting different schools in the area and where I work I went to school, Tisch and like you know. A film school like a Grad student who's like seems like people who maybe have adult double major like in filmmaking and also business school, and they WANNA be producers. That's it was a great option the finals. Here, Brooklyn was I started in one of my last projects, but it was a certain time between Semesters. who were signed up for projects like what I wanted only been assigned. I'll see what maybe who knows and I'm sure. Probably they need to do a lot of stuff online. Now, I could give the graduate students. On the in the masters think that as a thesis, instead they take right. Yeah, that'd be great. New York's and I'm sure L. as the same way it's a lot of. Things. But Alex was also thinking people. She knew I would prefer like somebody could recommend somebody. Who's you never know? Awesome turnouts unit them a little bit. It's bad when you start, and then you get disappointing shoe. Find Out, and they really are once. They start working, you know. It's nice to know somebody who's recommends them. I mean not that they've is terrible, but you find out. They don't have the same bent that you do where the same hundred hire. Interns as well. Some two men turns to assist with the. Of the different aspects of the. That's what we're thinking. On you know I mean it's there's so much work to do so. There's we. We need to find some people that are going to be able to help us Do work that we can just like okay. Yeah, you can take care of that and we can focus on something else. Just I and somebody someone handles insurance. I usually had people come over long time talking to them and I ended up helping them because. You know they take some of my books to say. Let me have this agreement back to you I promise. that. Promise except a couple that were turned out to be real geniuses in working for a while, but then because they're geniuses. Unfortunately, it makes me very happy that able to turn people on to the next step in the career. He's very nice that happens. Like a goal like how soon you hoping. Production will start. Soon! As possible and we're helping you to. Grant the other day very I'm going to call the lady I have to call. On that this is called catapult, and what they do is give you money to do short. That will be used to raise money for feature a very. Weird Grant, but I thought it was perfect because we're gonNA, use the footage we have from the Casablanca. All this whole thing like discussions may be part of this or something like that all kinds of things that retied. On discussing the film in the new table, a that in some interviews with actors will make this really interesting three interpretations, because is a really brilliant woman who wants to do it. Name's Allison impeaching. She's a the actual visionary. Really so she's been wanted in something great with material in La Oatley. Alex put it into schedule and actually appear which be wonderful. And that we really wonderful that we could put that into the shorten movie and then. Then do is seen for the long movie though it'd be great. On. Both, but to do something that makes him. Materials seem interesting and also be able to do a little pitch for the airtime, but also to entertaining, so he said that that's why I think I'm a little fried. Is We did this whole thing with this wonderful company that allosaurus. France in her company is being like the French Co producers. You have to fringe people I don't know people. sponsoring new or being are the team. And, so we had to do that and that was many many pages many many. Days and then we had to go straight into the catapult, and so I think we're very tired from that nurse why we really need somebody to take over that end. But we can't let it. We can't let it lapse either pursuant. Spend all that time making some some beautiful archimedes manifested. I'm ready Amelie ready I was ready, ASLEEP So great, though is the fact that putting this French character in the movie literally elevates script. On in a way that just makes me really excited. So that's. Gary Important. That's almost the reason why that meeting in the ladies room of these years later came to fruition. It was a little tiny growing seed. By What I wanted to say about the time line. I mean right now with the situation with Kobe nineteen of course everything is uncertain, but at the same time it's a very good time to get everything ready because we. Can't have that. Many distractions outside, so it's a really good time to focus and do all the work that when reaching shoot, we're ready to go. You know and and So, A lot of. When we're going to be able to shoot is going to depend on what happens with this situation I. Mean as you know Los Angeles. Right now is is where New York was a couple of months ago. Is that bad. Breath bad, yeah! I did. Preside climbing and climbing and climbing I mean people are a lot of. It sounds like. Things are reopening and everything, but in reality Mike when you talk to You know like let's say my daughter is in. She does competitive gymnastics and they've not been able to do that. And we just had a meeting with the gym and and and relate you know we can't take a you know. They're doing everything very slowly. And that's the same with a lot of businesses snowed. There's what the press says. There's the reality. Because they make it sound like California just was able to get past it. Now not at all Oh shit. We are. There's so many cases i. mean you know where we were? We jumped from like thirteen hundred. K's too like a case a day to over two thousand cases a day. It's it's serious. Aware. You have to be careful and you have to be aware Wow, but I mean that will resolve, and that's that's. That's just but I think that as I said using this time to be focused. Eared and also I was not some conference hall with people at Sundance. This lady investor lady. She was saying. It's actually a good time to hit people out for money. Not In process can't. Be doing projects, so they really are looking for things right now. That's our the generally do is look at products, and now they have time to listen. Yes, exactly now. The time I have but I haven't I because I haven't had the time to do. I have to really get about that list and finished script. Nokia gotta get the finished script with new additions, and then I'm going to go through that list SINC-. Producer because to reduce pichit better. I don't think so. In terms of these catapult people, I meet the only reason I got involved with him so I had a conversation at some re connected with me, and sometimes she said, don't be afraid to pick up the phone call people sometimes. Get on the phone with you now. And she said once you get that personal connection. It's better than any kind of email. You could send anybody, but you know takes live. Well, we'll do it. I will do it. It's very exciting. It's a beautiful project I'm I'm very excited about it and it's I. Love the plurality of it. It's there's so many layers it goes from the personal to the Universal a social activist message creatively and artistically it blends in beautifully with the language With the projections, and all the bachelors, photographs and And of Clayton Patterson so to me it's just the culmination of. So many. Different! Artistic expressions all crystallized in a story that matters from very excited very excited about. You got a great team. Ever really team how? Okay anything else you WANNA. Say before we and you. Have a Ken van sickle to be the for. I would love to have he be the. Feeling that is I. Don't know what he's up to exactly. I just came on something yesterday, and I threw my papers beautiful. It game this beautiful beautiful neat note. He wrote me after we finished the film together belly belly when that same shaw produce. and. That was really interesting, because he said no Samson's me. Wasn't really gonNA. Produce it. Executive Juicy, said just use my name. And it was amazing. I get to talk to anybody or it had. Like Woody Allen's editor Blah Blah Blah what's had to say Sam? Shaw told me to call you and instantly people picked up, so I sent a message to Kenny. Saying Sam said that maybe you should shoot my film, so he met me at the Gramercy Park Hotel. And I started to hand scripts. He said No. Said tell me a story. And, so I'm an oil, so I told him the story he wanted to know if I knew what I my story. If I even knew it visually and all of a sudden as they started talking to him, he's in John was telling him story visually so the end of the said okay. Give me the script. But he was. He was amazing. Amazing so I don't know what what he would be able to do that. I would love to him. Just be a Consultant in love to put his name on the project, but I need to talk to. yet. He lives in this apartment. nowhere New York is the triangle thing, Oreo. And And I. It's very hard. You could heated. He's has all these walls around these doing brilliant work, and when we're shooting the film. Ooh, awesome you now at the beach one day. Everybody was just waiting for pizza. Like didn't know out. They're going to get the energy up to shoot the last scene and Kenny's down on the beach doing. Is doing like some. G G.. Just amazing, just amazing. Mostly tight or something because I saw his website. Does you. Does thrones credible Shave League with shape Easson? Amazing. And he's photography's beautiful, and he became famous for one shot. and it was in Paris and I'm trying to remember Famous jazz musician and then at that point, they didn't have cameras. Now they had to have film right. was down. He didn't have any money he was down to two shots had two shots left? To so VER-. Shot was something happened with the exposure in the second shot. It was so iconic and so perfect to shot at all of a sudden the next day headline career. Yeah, But, that was when you know when being photographer had a little risk to it. Twenty five shots in like two seconds. And then ended down in. Take them to the computer and edit them to what you wanted you had to like. Get it. You know so the lighting in the shadows and everything was composition. Everything's beautiful. Newest Chet Baker I'm trying to remember WHOA. Hello thanks for listening to the erotic dispatches podcast. With shortly after a brief break. Thanks, again for tuning into this latest podcast episode of Iraq's dispatches, featuring interviews with Pamela ends and Alexandra, grenal. I have pasted links to Alexandra's video. Work in also pamelas theatrical productions on a profile page for this podcast. In addition, there is a contribution by on my anchor FM page, so any kind of donation will be greatly appreciated since I've always striving to make my podcast better. Thanks again for listening and I'll be back soon with a new episode. Take Care bye-bye.
#EERS S8 Ep23: The Green New Deal is Very Red
"Hi, it's Jamie, progressive's number one number two employee. Leave a message at the hey, Jamie. It's me, Jamie. This is your daily pep talk. I know it's been rough going ever since people found out about your Capella group mad harmony, but you will bounce back. I mean, you're the guy always helping people find coverage options with the name your price tool. It should be you giving me the pep talk. Now get out there, hit that high note, and take mad harmony all the way to nationals this year. Sorry, it's pitchy. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Wherever you go. However, you go for energy on the go. It's got to be five hour energy it works fast. It works long. It tastes good and was hero sugar and four calories. There's nothing holding you back fits your pocket fits your backpack fits your on the dole life. Whether you're going to work going on vacation for just going out with friends five hour energy energy on the go. For more information. Visit five hour energy dot com. John J o. All engine. Good evening. It is direction here. News ninety five AM seven fifty W S B in Atlanta's evening news, the full number four zero four eight seven two zero seven five zero one eight hundred WSB talk. We have a green new deal. And it is a as bright red is communism. I it's insane. We gotta get into that at the bottom of the hour. Former governor and current secretary of agriculture Sonny Perdue is going to join me stick around for that. We'll get into the green new deal. We've got some local news as well before any of that though consider this year public service message if you have an iphone in particularly I don't know how to do this in Android. There's a reason for me telling you this. So you as most of you, if your regular listener, my wife has a Harley when she had cancer shoe Verma tweeted Harley, she'd always wanted one she pulled the I have cancer card. You gotta buy me a Harley so she got a Harley fat boy and her ride. Group that she was with today had a car plow into them a an elderly woman in an SUV. They were headed east on a rural road and an elderly woman coming west came over the hill and was so busy driving sixty some odd mount miles an hour staring at the motorcycles passenger. She did not see that. There was a car stopped in front of her trying to make a left turn as the motorcycles past the elderly woman in the SUV plowed into the car in front of her which then spun them both into the motorcycles in the impact. Only one motorcycle. There were fourteen motorcycles they impacted at the twelfth motorcycle. And that gentlemen, lost his leg and his wife was an aside car with him. And she is very very very banged up. It was not a good situation. And unfortunately, the motorcycle landed on top of the man and the people there did not realize he was bleeding out from his missing leg. And a in very critical condition. They were able finally to get attorney it had to fight a place for the helicopter land. But there's a reason I tell you all of this is if you have an iphone, and you have gone into the health app on the iphone the health app is the app that is the white square with the red heart off centered towards the the upper right? There is inside that a tab that says medical ID. If you go into the medical ID, you don't have to put any information other than your emergency contacts, and then any person who works for emergency unit. A doctor would have you if they see your iphone, and they press the power button five times one two three four five. This happens. It then automatically calls nine one one and sins. A text message to every single person you've listed as an emergency contact with a GPS coordinates on a map of where you're located. And the reason I tell you this is the injured couple has family that don't live until they're elderly riding motorcycles retirees and their family does not live in the area. And he had that emergency contact been able to be set up people would have been able to notify their family, and it took a very long time apparently to be able to track down their children living out of town because that wasn't set up. So I just is just you know, I it's times like this. Where you remember these sorts of things, and it's worth pointing out to you that if you have this information, I if you put it in your iphone and click the medical I put it in the medical ID part of the health app. Someone can press the power button on your phone five times. It will call nine one one incident. Text message to all of your emergency contacts where you are useful information information, you hope you never have to have. But consider this after this day public service. My wife is fine. Everyone in the group was fine. It's a miracle the thirteenth and fourteenth bikes. They were not injured as bumpers were flying everywhere. But this couple is in critical condition. So prayers for all of them. Nonetheless. You're useful information to the day. Make sure you put emergency contacts on your iphone. So they can be useful to other people will Nell. Let's move into the news. The green new deal has come out. And it is it's communism. It actually y'all first of all let me before I delve into this in detail. I wanna tell you that you can tell House Democratic leaders aren't serious about this. Now, I know I have some progressive listeners because I get hate mail all the time from people who hate listen believe it or not it's a phenomenon. People hate listen to conservative talk radio. People are hate listening right now. And I got. So you guys who were hate listening. I realize you love, and that's not including the Trump supporters. I realize you love this green new deal, but I can tell you that House Democratic leaders aren't serious about in fact, Jamie Dupree, and I had a series of Email exchanges this afternoon. And and he's of that mind as well that this is the the left wing version of the house freedom caucus, and they're going to get no further with have leaders, then the freedom caucus did with Republican leaders. I can tell that House Democratic leaders are not serious about this green new deal and are probably setting them up for blame. Because they allowed an outline to be released with the green new deal that is at best farcical it is filled with gibberish. I mean, you'll which you need to understand is that this green new deal being released by Alexander causal Cortez. And the progressive caucus of the house. Democrats is the first major policy initiative of generation tied pod eater and generation tied. Potty eater is proving that the generation of Americans who think tide pods should be eaten are not up to governing this country. Let me read you one of the passages from their green new deal, this this is actually in the document. They made public today to explain it win JFK said we'd go to the by the end of the decade people said impossible. That's I'm not leaving outwards. They're leaving out words win JFK said we go to the by the end of the decade people said impossible. As opposed to win JFK said we'd go to the moon by the end of the decade. People said it would be impossible. Yeah. They they left. All those extras words. I mean, this is word salad garbage from generation Todd pied eater. That was probably light light chewing cannabis gummy bears as well. While they were doing this thing. The whole thing is nuts. Listen, if this was a serious proposal from serious people Nancy Pelosi in House, Democrats would have vetted it would have screened. It would have made sure that it was proof read and would have done a better job of outlining in preparing graphics in bullet points for it. This was done by some intern. It looks like on Microsoft Word using the the bullet Boyne outlines it. The whole thing is is farcical. Bantu Pelosi looks like she setting these people up to fail. In fact, this afternoon, she was very very dismissive of it. So dismissive, in fact, that she waved it off and said, what do they call it? The green dream or whatever who doesn't support that mean completely dismissive of it. She would not have let this document be released. And here's the thing. Nancy Pelosi knows that the language in the document is going to be used against the Democrats, and that's going to force many of them to run away from it. In fact, the Senator the left wing Senator from Hawaii the idiot woman who actually got into a discussion with a judicial nominee the other day about midget, dos or dwarf tossing. I'm not making that up. She actually challenged the nominee from the president on whether that woman supported dwarf tossing. Yes, the idiot Senator from Hawaii actually has said. This would hurt Hawaii. And do you know why would hurt Hawaii because one of the proposals y'all I'm not making this up? One of the parts of the green new deal is the abolition of the airplane. Within ten years. The goal of the green new deal is to abolish all private vehicles and airplanes because in a ten year period, they will have built so many railroads in this country with high speed rail that people will have no need to get on an airplane. So you can spend three days crossing the country on a train instead of four hours. So by the time, you get from New York to California, you'll be ready to go home again. That's actually in the plan. What's also in the plan is a limit that. They're not sure they're going to be able to get rid of farting Cowles within ten years. One of the. Yes, that's the language. They use it actually. Yes, we Archer. This is direct quote, direct quote. I'm not making it up. It's dry quote. We aren't sure that we'll be able to fully get rid of farting cows needs. He Pelosi would not let them put that in. If this was serious. Here's another one. They wanna to do quote massively expand clean manufacturing. Like solar panel factories, wind turbine factories, battery and storage manufacturing energy, efficient manufacturing components, and remove pollution and greenhouse gas emissions from any factoring. Do you know that some of the most environmentally toxic manufacturing in the world is manufacturer to batteries and solar panels because of the chemicals that they use the chemicals and heavy metals that they using these things these are not environmentally friendly production facilities for them to say they want to up to increase that expansion while. Also getting rid of pollution from that manufacturing is an impossibility. You can't get rid of pollution from manufacturing batteries due to the heavy metals that are necessary unless you're gonna use unicorn farts, maybe maybe just maybe if they power all of this by unicorn farts, they'll be able to solve the Californian problem with unicorn farts and also solved the battery problem. They also another direct quote want to work with farmers and ranchers to create a sustainable pollution and greenhouse gas free food system that ensures universal access to healthy food and expanse independent family farm. And in other words, they want to get rid of meat. They want to use government pressure to get rid of meat. You see you can't have greenhouse gas emissions free food if you have animals who emit carbon dioxide, do you know, the last I'm not making this up either. Do you know the last government on the planet the last government on the planet? That gave serious consideration to making the citizens become vegetarians. There actually was a government on this planet that wanted to impose vegetarianism on its population. Do you have any idea what country wanted to the power of government to force people to be vegetarians that would be Germany with Hitler in charge during World War Two? After the bottom of the hour news cast, former governor Sonny Perdue now secretary of agriculture is going to join me talking about the president's agenda after the state of the union. And I'm sure I'm going to ask him about the Stacey Abrams response. And maybe the green new deal, you know, one of the other bits in this green new deal is they actually say they want to pay a living wage to Americans unwilling to work. Not Americans unable to work Americans unwilling to work. We'll be paid a living wage by the government with your tax dollars. And then honestly, one of my favorite parts of the whole thing is how to pay for it. I want to actually read you the language from the green new deal on how to pay for it quote. How will you pay for? It is one of the questions in this outline they offer. Here's what they say. The same way we paid for the new deal the two thousand eight Bank bailout and extended quantitative easing programs. The same way we paid for World War Two and all our current wars. The Federal Reserve could extend credit to power these projects and investments and new public banks can be created to extend credit new public banks can be created to extend credit. There is also space for the government to take an equity stake in projects to get a return on investment and the end of the day. This is an investment in our economy. That should grow our wealth as a nation. So the question is it how will we pay for it? But what will we do with our new shared prosperity? It's not that will pay for it. But how will do with our new what we'll do with our new share prod spiriting ask Venezuela. What they're doing with their new shared prosperity. They probably were eating the tide pods while they were actually doing this generation tide pods. I. First major substantive issue, by the way, default perspective, ju just so we have some perspective here Bronco. Bama added eight trillion dollars to the national debt. Barack Obama added more than any previous president to the national debt. George W Bush only added five trillion dollars Franklin Roosevelt for World War, Two two hundred nine billion dollars adjusted for inflation, even that's it only tops out around a trillion dollars. Basically Ronald Reagan added one point eight six trillion dollars during the Cold War, and Franklin Roosevelt adjusted for inflation matched about that for World War to pay for World War Two. What would the cost of this be? We don't know. But the conservative estimates are twenty trillion dollars our national debt right now is equal to what this entire program would cost. They want to ban the airplane in here. Something of a buddy of mine. Text me on on Twitter. A direct message. Me. So she wants to get rid of fossil fuel trucks and cars, how are you going to get the vegetables from the farms when we eliminate the cattle. Well, that's just it. They also want to get rid of national farms and go back to locally grown sourcing. This is what happens when you get a New York progressive who's never been outside her city and doesn't realize the vast expanse of this country that it just doesn't work when we come back secretary of agriculture Sonny Perdue will join me. Okay. I want to tell you guys about calm, which has become the most used app in my household. We've been using it because my buddy Jonathan last recommended to me even before they came along ask if I do endorsements. I yes, I'll endorse you because we use you. It's the number one app to help you sleep meditate, and relax if you had to call him dot com slash Eric. You'll get twenty five percent off a calm premium subscription. It includes hundreds of hours of programs includes guided meditations for anxiety stress focus, including brand new meditation called the daily calm. They're asleep stories with some of the very famous actors reading it Stephen Fry or with France and the lavender fuels or explore New Zealand with your own Flynn from game of thrones Bob Ross is there as well. For a limited time. My listeners are going to get twenty five percent off a calm premium subscription at calm dot com slash Eric that C A L M dot com slash Eric. You get unlimited access to all of calms content today at com dot com slash Eric. Give yourself. Gift to comb, it have a happy and healthy twenty nineteen. Welcome back. It is your Erickson here with Atlanta's evening news. Joining me by phone from Washington is the secretary of agriculture former governor Sonny Perdue, welcome to the program. How are you? I'm eric. How are you doing with you? You too is. So I thank you for calling in and taking the time between the president's speech and Stacey Abrams response. And no, of course, I'm sure you haven't had a chance to digest the the new green new deal from the Democrats that they actively in their documents say they want to ban. Farting cowles. There's a lot to digest this week in the news. Well, I can tell you USDA not for that. I'm glad I'm glad so I if your former governor in addition to being secretary of agriculture, I I'm actually cutting interested in your take on what Stacey Abrams had to say. And I think while she is a jitney or a good speaker and delivers very well. Hope people will listen to what she's saying, frankly. And that's the challenge that was a challenge on the governor's race. If you listen to what she says, Eric I cannot be convinced. That's where Georgia is when she talks about voter suppression. He her definition is suppressing the votes of illegal aliens voting in our in our elections. Those are the kind of things from taxation standpoint, calling the tax reductions immoral the healthcare for everyone Medicare for all single payer, those kind of things that's not where Jordan's are. And while she is a gift to deliver of those remarks. I hope people will listen to what she's saying. Well, it was interesting to me, even for example. So I stayed on air until one o'clock in the morning after after the speeches and the number of truck drivers who were willing to call in very angry that they're now. Able to finally get back on their feet after after the Obama regulations that cut into truck driving, and that the Trump administration rolled back, and now they're blasting her and she wants to take away their income that they're making the they got a good thing going, and she seemed to be talking down the economy and talk down truck driving up on those interesting other night. You watched it in the the state of the union and out chambers. Those issues that Democrats always four jobs for Americans and for African Americans Hispanic Americans women disable at record levels, low levels of unemployment for those different groups Democrats sat on their hands while the president recline recalled the fact that they are the lowest in history, and I can't understand that this is they don't want to seem to give him a win at all over the thing. He's accomplished. We was a very striking contrast with Democrats. They the only time they really wanted to stand up in cheer was when he point. Out the number of women in the workforce. And particularly the number of women now in congress, and we really are on a good streak right now with the economy, no doubt about it. I mean, these are really historic levels, and and because of the demonization of President Trump, and they ignore that. I think they're gonna nor it actually to their. Faster in twenty twenty when people realize the public gets to there. I'm always been a huge believer that the American electorate the the citizen out. There gets a lot more than many times we elected office yet, they feel it everyday. They know about their paycheck. They know where they're getting jobs. The jobs report this past month, three hundred four thousand more jobs, more people working that tells me people have hope they're coming out of the out of their houses and saying I can get a job I can work again. That's definitely the result of President Trump's economic policies well related to that you being secretary of agriculture two weeks before the election in November. And just a couple of weeks after that devastating hurricane really hit south. Georgia's Stacey Abrams went down to South Georgia and insulted the agriculture community and people didn't need to feel like they had to work in in that industry. She said, I'm just curious as editor of agriculture. Your thoughts on the recovery down there with the forms. Well, I'll be. Asli we've had hurricane Michael since that time, and it's a huge huge challenge. I was just visiting over here on Capitol Hill. I'm actually only here. Now talking about the disaster. Bill at oak, we can see soon to give our sewer farmers. Both in pecans cotton, peanuts and other specialty crops, including even our timber crops some real relief there that they could not control. It was devastating damages. I had to really bite my tongue during the campaign. I didn't think I needed to get into the campaign. You know, the hatch act and all that. But I'm I was particularly fended when she stood them to Georgia and shouldn't have to go into agriculture to find jobs as a working in agriculture, demeaning enterprise. That will that was particularly offensive to me Georgians. It's number one, Georgia's number one industry and most all of us liked eat everyday. Well, according to the Democrats in their new green deal today. We'll all be eating vegetarian if they have their way. Good luck. Well, listen, I I know you got a busy day. And you're on Capitol Hill. Thanks for stopping by and sharing your thoughts. I really do. Appreciate it. Thank you to take your. That's former governor Sonny Perdue secretary of agriculture now calling in wanted to chime in on the president's state of the union and Stacey Abrams, it it is interesting. The the focus now on the White House and elsewhere regarding Stacey Abrams response, I think they realized that they're going to be in for a fight in twenty twenty including here in Georgia. And they're doing what they can't lay the groundwork for that. By the way, I just saw this flyer being pushed out on social media from the Georgia. Young Republicans February night this weekend is the mass meetings the precinct caucus meetings for the Georgia Republican party in counties that have more than eighty thousand people then April fifteenth were I'm sorry, March ninth will be the county convicted conventions. For counties with under eighty thousand people. They'll do precinct caucuses at nine AM. Then they'll have their county conventions. April thirteenth will be district conventions, and then may sixteenth to eighteenth will be the state convention at this event international Trade Center, beautiful facility down there. If you want to get involved in your local Republican party considering that twenty twenty is going to be a huge year for Georgia as Democrats treated like a swing state, and pour resources into the state if you go to GE GOP dot org, you'll be able to find the information for your local, precincts and counties. Find out from your local county where your precinct media is going to be this Saturday. All you have to do is show up. It's ten AM February night this Saturday at ten AM. Your county is going to gather at a designated place. They'll announce it the state GOP will have information your local county party will if you want to be involved in local politics. The Democrats have a very similar setup. I don't have their information. Nobody send it to me. But the George GOP I see the circulated on Twitter. You wanna be involved in this? They're going to pick a new chairman this year as well to lay the groundwork coming for twenty twenty now the full number here. Four zero four eight seven two zero seven five zero one eight hundred WSB talk. There is a little more on the green new deal. It's it's this whole thing is I was telling a secretary Perdue they want to ban meet in the country. They wanna get rid of Cowles in the country. They believe that that is a bad thing. They also say in for as far as funding. This is a quote if Eisenhower wanted to build the interstate highway system today people would ask how we'd pay for it. And so what do they do? They don't tell you how they will pay for it. They say instead that we shouldn't focus on cost. We should focus on what we will do with our new shared prosperity. This is communism, and I don't use that term lightly in a lot of people like to throw around commies and. And whatnot. And this goes beyond socialism. What Andrew Kazu Cortez, and the Democrats and the progressive caucus or announcing is a government that will control the means of producing food will control how food is brought to the market will control your transportation options will pay people who don't want to work that is one of the key points in this green new deal. That's how it is good for the environment to pay people who do not want to work who in the language of this deal are unwilling to work. They will be paid money. And they want to ban meat. They wanna ban. All they want to be in chickens. They don't want to just read me. They went around pigs. Cows bison, chickens turkeys, you name it a fish. I guess they'll give an exception to fish since they're underwater, but e- any animal that produces carbon dioxide as a byproduct. They wanna get rid of this is this is insanity. No rational person could actually read this thing. It's a good idea. Which is why I'm I'm doubling down on the idea. I think that the democratic leaders are hoping that they'll be exposed for fools in that they didn't vet any of this stuff ahead of time. And let them rush it out with all the Typos all the grammar errors, everything in it to make them look as foolish as possible and the Nancy Pelosi treating it very dismissively this afternoon, even as she sets up a committee to study climate change. She treats this very dismissively. This is I don't think the Democrats won anything to do with it. And guess what they're going to get stuck with it now because their base. Wants this in the base is really setting up the Democrats for failure in twenty twenty. I mean, honestly between the green new deal and infanticide. Where can I learn how to be a volunteer door knocker for President Trump and twenty twenty? It's fifty seven after the hour. It's Eric Erickson here and real quick shirl. We've only got about a minute. But I wanted to get your phone. Call in welcome. Hi. Hi. I have I guess the question common for you. Okay. Okay. If my mother who had seven children had a husband, which she did walk thirty miles every night home from work. She would have had her fanny in her car driven the thirty miles and picked her husband up and driven him home. Especially in the rain Stacey Abrams mother, let him want kitsch hike home in the rain that night when he gave his jacket away. I find that rather odd. Well, we new would she actually says in the speech is that here or dad had to go? They only had one corner of the family. So the mome had during the day. And if she couldn't get. Back to the dad to pick him up at night. They would go get him. And so it was raining, and he headed the walk home hitchhiking along the way and they headed to get him. Then he gave his coat away to a homeless, man. And they asked him why he said because I knew that he was going to be alone. But y'all were coming to get me. So no, I think there was a sweet story. We don't need to ding that one. All engine. We have. It's the second hour here. Eric Erickson on news ninety five five AM seven fifty WSB with Atlanta's evening news. The full numbers four oh four eight seven two zero seven five zero one eight hundred WSB talk we need to shift in to some local news. What's happening? Rob would all is not going to seek reelection in the seventh congressional district. He was almost voted out this past time, everyone actually thought that handle would survive, and he would lose it was the opposite these going now, and that's going to give the Democrats likely to pick up unless the Republicans find a really good excuse me, good candidate in rally behind that person. But I don't want to dwell on that I I need to talk to you about Representative Casey carpenter. He is under attack from left wing activists. In fact, is restaurant believes restaurants. The is the okay. Would cafe in Dalton Georgia? Gay rights activists are on yelp and other restaurant review sites, and they are leaving nasty reviews about this restaurant. Many of them have a most of them if not all of them having never actually eaten there in his over a piece of legislation that Casey carpenter on the state house has introduced that has nothing to do with gay rights, but has been declared by the Democrats to be anti LGBT is no longer LGBT. It's LGBTQ. So it's anti LGBTQ, Hugh is for questioning the pagans are among us. So what does this legislation actually do? So it's house Bill fifty three you will recall. There was an issue in the state last year where a teacher a high school coach was disciplined for praying with his students. There's actually case before the supreme court right now on a similar situation in a difference day. They sent it back to the. Yeah. But in my says LGBTQ, I a a plus. Yes, something anyway. So there's a the case has been sent back to the ninth circuit court of appeals from the supreme court for more facts. They haven't throwing the case out altogether. A coach who was praying with students and was actually fired in one of their grounds for firing him as he was seeing praying during a football game as a spectator. Not just as a coach. So Casey carpenter has introduced house Bill. Fifty three house Bill fifty three would protect teachers coaches and students who make public shows of their faith in their homework assignments. And when they're interacting with students, so a coach could not be punished in Georgia. And again, this this happened in George already where a coach has been punished for prayed on the field with his students. He was disciplined in Georgia. We have had situations as well in Georgia. Where teachers have prohibited students from during literary Simon's and whatnot using the older New Testament or books of the bible as a focus of the literary. Silence. This has happened Georgia these aren't hypotheticals it has nothing to do with gay rights. It has nothing to do with transgenderism nothing. All it does is say that you cannot fire a coach for praying with the students, and you cannot discipline a student for using the bible in as an appropriate part of a lesson. Now, there are a few of the things in there as well. But all it is is about protecting students and faculty who are exercising. Their religious rights. There's nothing about gay rights in there. There's nothing about a St. protecting a teacher who doesn't want to get you into the classroom or anything like that. But what's happening is that a gay rights activists and Democrats have declared this to be anti LGBTQ? And in fact, a Representative Casey carpenter tried to engage with one of the organizations that was leading effort on him on Facebook. And they deleted all of his comments. He went to their Facebook pages that this isn't true. Here's all the legislation does and they deleted all of his comments explaining what the legislation did they they then blocked him. So he couldn't go in and try to explain to them that they had the legislation wrong. And now, they are encouraging these left wing activist groups are encouraging people to go on sites that review the oakwood cafe and Bolton Georgia that he is a partner in and give it really bad reviews. Even though they've never another trying to ruin his non-legislative career in business because of a piece of legislation that only does protect faculty and students who dare to pray in school. Just it's unreal. But you know, it's to be expected to this day and age. By the way, Doug Turnbull is our jug Doug from. I'm sorry, not Doug Clark Howard is going to be joining me here. Just a little bit to talk about the SunTrust BBN merger. If you haven't heard SunTrust and Beebe and tee are going to merge, and they're going to move the corporate headquarters from Atlanta up to Charlotte, which is becoming more and more of a finance center banking center. They had a lot of banking and finance industries up there which begs the question if they changed the name, so they're not gonna use SunTrust, and they're not gonna use BBN t-. They're not gonna use either one. They're going to go through an Indian tirelessly brand new marketing branding campaign, come up with something new. They'll be the fifth largest Bank in the country. I believe and that means that SunTrust stadium is going to have to be the name will be changed. Now. I personally never call it. The centrist at him. I call it the Braves stadium half the time. I still call at Turner field. You maybe they'll come up with something more appropriate. Like Hank Aaron stadium. Maybe just maybe I mean, I'm not gonna hold my breath on that. But Clark Howard is going to be here to discuss that momentarily with me other news in the the state that you should know about is. There is an investigation for voter fraud happening in the state, and I know that the Democrats would have as believe voter fraud does not happen in Georgia. But secretary of state Brad Rathbun's burger is opening an investigation into voter fraud in a state house district that doesn't seem to ever end. This is the house district twenty eight where they have a special election. It turned out that a bunch of people voted in the special election who the district data was wrong. They weren't supposed to vote so they had an election again. And it turns out that a number of people, and it seems like a small number, but it impacted the race at least four people voted who had moved out of the district more than thirty days before the election and were somehow still able to cast ballots, so they're investigating how this happened. Judge invalidated the first election that was the primary in may because dozens of Hampshire county voters assigned to the house district. So they had the second election in December. And a judge found four votes and move beforehand. It's classing the results in doubt because there was a two vote margin of victory. So they've changed it again. So the now there's going to be a third election up there, and we're having a voter fraud investigation, which the Democrats, including Stacey Abrams say doesn't happen in Georgia. Now, I want to give Clark a little more time to be able to talk about the SunTrust BBN t- thing he's been up on TV talking about as well. So he's going from upstairs downstairs at WSB from TV radio. We're gonna take our time out now. So I can spend a little time with Clark Howard on this SunTrust BBN t- merger. When we come back. There are a ton of stories out there about online security breaches. And you gotta start worrying about how your data is used. And where it goes who's looking at it making it online purchase or accessing your Email could put your private information a risk. And you know, you're being tracked online by social media companies marketing companies, your mobile or internet provider can track you there's one way to make sure your privacy is secure. That's with express VPN. It's got easy to use apps that run seamlessly in the background on your computer on your phone on your tablet. All you do to turn it on his one, click it secures and makes an honest your internet, browsing by encrypting, your data hiding your public high p address and you can use express VPN for less than seven dollars a month. It's the number one VPN service by tech radar. It comes with a thirty day money back guarantee. So protector online privacy today. Find out how you can get three months for yet expressed VPN dot com slash Eric. That's E X P R E S VPN dot com slash ERIC K for three months free with a one year package. Visit express VPN dot com slash Eric. To learn more. Suntrust and BBN t-. They're going to merge, I'm assuming they're not going to rename the stadium. The SunTrust BBN t stadium. In fact, I think they're gonna come up with a brand new name. That's what they're saying. Anyway, joining me now to talk about those core coward. How are you? Great. How are you this warm afternoon? Fantastic, man. The sunshines been great today. Yeah. To steal a day like this and midwinter. Yes. My wife loves the sunshine this year. And now, we've got BBN t stealing our hometown. I know. So I mean, we've got SunTrust plaza. Downtown they're gonna move the headquarters up to two Charlotte. This sit in good for Atlanta for consumers. Yeah. Every time a big company leaves Lanta a lot of their charitable giving goes away a lot of their connection to the community goes away. I mean, this is even though it's being falsely referred to as a merger of equals. BBN tea is buying SunTrust. And they are going to be running the show. Now, I just I had it in my head, I presume that that maybe it is SunTrust is bigger than BBN tease. This a smaller guy buying no BBN tea is actually considered to be of the second tier banks in the country, perhaps the best run of all of them. And they are testing the waters feeling like with the Trump administer. Gratien empower a merger that never would have been approved will now be approved. It's been roughly fifteen years since Bank merger like this has been approved other than the shotgun wins during the financial crisis. Right. So what are you what are you expecting this? I I'm expecting this to be approved and then set off dozens of more marriages like this or acquisitions along these lines because the muddy middle of the banking business is in a really world to hurt right now. They're not big enough to compete against the four giant monster megabanks have more than half of all market share in the country now, and they're too big to really get close to entrepreneurial type customers small businesses. So they've got to get out of this muddy middle and these banks are going to have to merge into significant networks. In order to be able to compete on a nearly equal footing with chase city Wells Fargo and Bank of America. Will you know? It's funny. You mention that I Christie has had her Bank of America account since she was a teenager in. It's what we took over when we got married, but I I've I've set up several Bank accounts after that I've used smaller banks have it used any of the big guys. And one of the things I've noticed using one of the smaller banks as just online Bill pay and stuff is so much further behind. And so I assume as a consumer stuff like that improves when you have a company like SunTrust BBN t getting together. Yeah. So one of the big reasons they gave to Wall Street is just that. And they'll be in a position after they do all the massive layoffs over the next couple of years to free up a lot of money to be able to have a real solid digital Bank product. But there are human beings who have dedicated their lives. People who were talking about who are going to get crushed by this who worked for both banks. But I believe more heavily the job losses will fall on SunTrust is the Bank being bought rather than the Bank doing the buying. I would expect so as well so Clark real quick. We got less than a minute. If what's your preferred name that they could come up with. Eriksson bank. There you go. How about Howard L Erickson, no can't be because Emma credit union guy. I could never have my name attached to a Bank besides it through this process. A lot of people are going to be in play who were going to consider looking at a new financial institution. And we're gonna get a lot of bribes in the mail from various banks and credit unions, offering us money to capture us away from both of these banks will Clark Howard. Thanks very much. I appreciate it very much. Us thirty nine after the hour. Eric Erickson in the phone number here is four zero four eight seven two zero seven five zero one eight hundred WSB talk I want to dwell a little more on some local news instead of getting back into the green new deal. We have time we'll get there. I'm happy to take your phone calls on it as well. But if you missed the headlines there were one hundred sixty nine sex trafficking arrests in the metro area right before the Super Bowl. And there is this belief that essentially the Super Bowl is the also the Super Bowl of sex trafficking that e people bring in. People for it. And that's not actually true there the Super Bowl itself. And I long believed this I should say, but the more you research, it is actually not true. What happens is? Oftentimes arrests in areas because it has been an issue in the past. You do have a situation where the FBI makes it a priority in the run-up to big sporting events because you have a local human trafficking issues that have gone on resolved. So we had one hundred sixty nine arrests for trafficking in the metro Atlanta area in the runoff run up to the Super Bowl twenty one of the thirty four suspects arrested as ledge John's were arrested in a sting set up in Brookhaven Bill Torpey has this at WSB TV one had gone on the stink for four for months with twenty two agencies involved and was sprung to coincide with the Super Bowl to get maximum publicity. And this is one of the things that were done. Now, the John's or. Fairly evenly black or white or Hispanic ranging from twenty to fifty five locals mostly the other interesting number here is thirty four. Well, that's that's the number who were engaged but twenty six traffickers were arrested. Now there were nine adult women in nine miners who were the victims with this one hundred sixty nine arrests. So there weren't a lot of victims. But there was a lot of organization. Today's one of the days if you get on Instagram, for example, you'll see a lot of people with red X's on their hands to fight human trafficking. This is a big issue in there is a desire by some. I think to push back on the Super Bowl mythology about human trafficking. There are some who get really angry when you push back on it, regardless of the Super Bowl or not. In atlanta. There is a huge problem with human trafficking. Still. In fact, the I seventy five corridor from Chattanooga down to Florida has huge problems with human trafficking. Oftentimes, you will see the sign it of businesses mall businesses usually in rundown strip malls, advertising, twenty four hours spas, and you're wondering what on earth or these places? Well, many times that's what these places are there. Local prostitution rings oftentimes fronts for human trafficking. It is a serious issue. And it is great that the governor. And the legislature are getting really serious about this issue fact when I was on city council down in making it was actually Karen handles team. Then she left her run for the Senate and Brian Kim's team finished it up the big issue about human trafficking. And we were trying to crack down on it in may. And Brian kipps office of secretary of state was very very very helpful in that regard because they convinced us instead of diverting police resources to to fight this one of the easiest ways to fight it and one of the ways most likely to you through a county Commissioner or a city council was to make it a regulatory issue and work with the regulators to make the business licensing contingent on doing certain things having certain labels believe it or not the the legitimate, tablets have light bulbs and all the offices and the illegitimate businesses really hate to have light bulbs in certain rooms, they don't like to have logs of the people who come in stuff like that that will like to have cameras. So you put that stuff in regulation, and you drive most of them out of business just for regulatory compliance. You never have to steer police away from more serious crime. And that's one of the issues with human trafficking in. I I want to be very clear at this moment. I'm speaking in generalities. When I the only reason I ran for office was this issue. And got elected campaigning on cracking down on human trafficking in middle Georgia because I had been made aware of the problem. It was a real problem and one of the pieces of advice, I got was to find ways to crack down on it without involving law enforcement. And the reason is because and again, this these are generalities. But I think that these generalities pan out even in my personal experience. One of the things that the human traffickers do is they rent locations for their twenty four hours spas off Asian theme massage parlors, and they rent from people with political connections, oftentimes people who were on county commissions and city councils, they become the landlords. And so, of course, they have whether they know that it's happening or not they have a vital vested interest in not disrupting their tenants. So if you're coming around with law enforcement, one of the things they like to say. Is that well, we can't distract law enforcement from real crime. We can't distract law enforcement from a really bad things that are happening for hypothetical things that are happening. So if you use the regulatory front to fight human trafficking, then they're in a very awkward position because it puts them in a conflict of interest. Are you trying to protect your businesses? You're you're renner's, your tenants over the public good and over the regulatory environment because most Democrats in particular truth be told they they are not opposed to more business regulations and taxes and fines as a way to make money for cities and counties. So you go that route you pick up democratic support you marginalize anyone who might be a property renter to these businesses who is political and you have greater impact. And you also have the argument that will we're not tied up police resources. That's the way we actually did it in middle Georgia on the advice of some national groups the secretary of state's. Office advised us to go that way, and it was quite successful. There are still problems. It doesn't get rid of it altogether. You still have to have an aggressive police force alternately dealing with it. But it is nice now to see that our state legislature and governor also really engaging on this issue now because it has gone on for very long time. And there's more and more data more and more research. More and more arrests show that the southeast and in particular, the I seventy five corridor through Georgia from north to south with Atlanta in a hotbed of it are really serious issues for human trafficking, and in the past a lot of people could say, well, this is just these are foreigners and whatnot. And that's not true anymore. The tide has turned because of border crackdowns by the Bush and Obama administration. I know a lot of conservatives believe that legal immigrants are just flooding across the border, and yes too many are. But we've now crossed the Rubicon on this issue where the majority of people traffic in this country are victims from this country kidnapped or otherwise. And so the. Victims of human trafficking or American kids. And for those who have long said, this isn't really a big issue for us. It's other people. It's other countries as other cultures now, it's ours. It's time to take action. And it's great to see the governor and a bipartisan coalition the legislature doing that. No an ad from dad. All right. Save money on car insurance when you bundle home and auto with progressive. Gotta take these off. What is this? Well. Where did you get this? I'm talking to you with the hair. Yeah. Where did you get this? Good stuff. Solid. That's not veneer that solid stuff. Progressive can't save you from becoming your parents, but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto. 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