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Ecommerce Empire Builders - Peter Pru - FHR #274
Why Dave Decided to talk to Peter Pru: Peter Pru has built, grown, and scaled multiple 6-7 figure eCommerce businesses across multiple industries. He is a member of the Clickfunnels 2-Comma Club for hitting over $1,000,000 in sales in his eCommerce businesses using funnels. He's also the host of the Ecommerce Empire Builders Youtube/Podcast where he shares his tactics and strategies for building wilding profitable eCommerce businesses. Tips and Tricks for You and Your Business: Continuity plans and income building. (8:58) Sell digital products also! (10:14) Digital and physical product margins (17:30) Empire Builders: Webinar: ecommerceempirebuilders.com (18:38) Card abandonment/Stick Strategies in eCommerce. (24:14) Quotable Moments: "You can scale as quickly as you want: In some cases, you may scale to quickly." "You really don’t have a business until you have continuity income coming into that business." "If you have an eCommerce business one of the best things to do is add on a membership site on the back end of it then you get that continuity income." "It’s the idea of marrying both physical and membership sites together. It drops your costs to acquire a customer and increases your lifetime value of the customer." Other Tidbits: Peter talks about how he got started in the eCommerce business and how it has changed his professional career. He discusses the joy he gets from coaching and assisting people in transforming their eCommerce businesses into profitable ventures. Links: FunnelHackerRadio.com FunnelHackerRadio.com/freetrial FunnelHackerRadio.com/dreamcar ---Transcript--- Speaker 1: 00:00 Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast, where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets, and how you can get those same results. Here's your host, Dave Woodward. Speaker 2: 00:17 Hey everybody. Welcome back. This is going to be a ride for your life, so hold on tight because I have the one and only Peter Crew on the show. Peter, welcome. It is an absolute pleasure to be on here with a thank you so much for having me. I always make the mistake of getting going and having to. I wish so bad. I could just like start and not have any top. We started talking beforehand. I'm like, shoot, I forgot to hit record so you guys missed the pre stuff, but this guy's been crushing it online. It's basically a 10 year overnight success, which we'll get into in just a second. One of our two Comma Club award winners. The guy's crushing it with with publishing. You've got so many cool things I want to talk to you about is your actual funnel that you're using as far as teaching people, but again, we were just talking about the importance of impact and with click funnels that we get so excited about our two comma club award winners, but not because of ben hitting it. It's because of the impact that they have on everybody else. And so Peter, you were just talking about, you know, growing up in the Mecca of entrepreneurship and Philly, but you're talking about the impact as far as your, your second fam is. I want to start right there as far as. Tell us a little bit about the impact your feeling and how this changed your life. Speaker 3: 01:26 Well, the thing is like for so long, like as you said, my 10 year overnight success. So like I always thought I had to be like alone in this space. I didn't really have mentors in the early stages until years went by and I finally was like, you know, I think I should probably get a mentor and cut my learning curve. But then when I started publishing and you know, this empire builder brand, right, that we have going on now and just teaching people with what was working for me, like these people, I spent so much time with them every single day that it's almost like, it literally is like a second family to me, you know, and seeing them succeed, like making their first dollars online or even, you know, turning their struggling ecommerce business into something that's not profitable. A truly like the most beautiful. Absolutely. Beautiful thing. Speaker 2: 02:11 Well Peter, that's awesome. Well, little backstory here as far as tell people how'd you get started in the econ business and what did lead up to. Speaker 3: 02:17 Okay, so 10 year overnight success story. So I first got certain ecommerce, uh, when I graduated a college. So in college I discovered affiliate marketing made a couple hundred bucks a month, which was like, oh my God, like I'm making money online. Like this is crazy in college it was short, it was kind of short lived with my affiliate marketing career. But I started with Amazon Fba actually. And invested all the money I had to my name. I only had like $5,000 was everything I made in affiliate marketing and my life savings invested in Amazon Fba. Make a long story short. We'll crush it. Within our first year, we're making close to $50,000 per month in sales. Right? But unfortunately, and I don't want to tell anybody that's selling on Fba here. Maybe this was just me, but I don't want to offend anybody. Uh, I do. I'm totally good with offending people on Amazon. Speaker 3: 03:06 So the thing was I got some random, uh, I was driving to work still because a lot of when you sell an Amazon Fba, a lot of your money is constantly wrapped up in inventory. Like you're constantly having to ship more inventory. And so I was still having to work full time. Um, but I saw there was like, that was like, I'm getting there. I'm getting to the point where I can finally quit. I can finally pay myself. And it was quarter four. We're nearing $80,000 a month in sales. Like, like I was the happiest person I was driving to work. I was like, I don't even care about this place like Adelaide, it'd be more. Um, but I, uh, I got an email, said my listing has been suppressed. I was like, what? Then a couple minutes later I got another one and another one and another one. Speaker 3: 03:46 And within like 10 minutes, all five of the listings I was selling on Amazon were suppressed. And what happened was a competitor to explain to people what's that mean? Basically a competitor of mine who went on my list, Amazon product pages and they said that I was infringing on patents, but those were completely false ip claims. Right. And Amazon, they're not going to get involved in like a, you know, illegal or anything. So they just pulled the listing though, took nearly a year to get my account back after that. And it's Kinda at that point like where I kinda got into this dark period where I was like, when everybody else is succeeding around me, like, what, what, what did I do wrong here? Like when is it my turn? Like feeling pity for myself. Uh, and I realized like I was never building my own business. Speaker 3: 04:29 I was left with, with nothing, no customer data, like wasted inventory and I had nothing, literally nothing to show for that business. And look, months went by, I felt that loop that, you know, so many of us do, like, you know, you go to work, eat, sleep, and you just keep doing that day in and day out. And that's when I was like, okay, why are you seriously going to quit right now? Or you're quitting right now. I have all of the mistakes you've made, everything you've learned over these years. Just quitting. And I was like, no way. I cannot, I cannot. I literally couldn't live like another day if I did. And that's when I started learning about shopify and started crushing it. Like make a long story started getting. I started doing really well with shopify but I still couldn't pay myself. I was like, what the heck is going on? Speaker 3: 05:11 Like when I'm going to be able to pay myself here. And that's when I started learning about sales funnels and we were doing a fishing business, a subscription business with fishing and our cost to acquire a customer. And we're gonna get a little technical here. I hope that's a gift. I knew the people that have ecommerce businesses that are listening, why she appreciate this, uh, our cost to acquire a customer with our shopify store, uh, was like about 20, $25. Right? And the reason for that is because people don't subscriptional as selling a subscription on front end as a front end product is really, really difficult unless it's like you're the coolest thing in town, like barkbox fat, that font or something like that. So I realized, okay, well our lifetime value of a and average subscriber was about like a hundred 50 bucks. So we're okay delaying gratification. Speaker 3: 06:02 We're like, I will just delay gratification. We're going to get paid because we know we require them for 25, we can wait six months, we'll make our money right? And the problem with that, when you're not venture back, when you're not venture back, it's go hard and seriously, like we, me and my partners at the time, like we had to invest our money to keep the business afloat, to delay gratification. I was like that it has to be a better way. There has to be a better way. Um, and that's when I started learning about these sales funnels and I started putting in different fishing lures as free plus shipping offers, discount offers, and I was profitable already on my front end offers with the upsells, right? Selling more of the same thing. And then we just injected the continuity piece into that funnel as a step. Speaker 3: 06:45 So not only were we now profitable on the front end, right? But then we got subscribers for free. Like it was, it was. It's amazing. Like it was like that. Literally, when you understand that, and it's the same way, like click funnels kind of grew, grew as quickly as it did, is because you now know that you can grow as fast as you, you truly want. The only bottleneck is your traffic. At that point, because you're profitable already and then you're getting free sales every month on the continuity plan and that was. That's truly right there guys. Like if you. If you implement what I just showed you to like truly you can, you can scale as quickly as quickly as you want. Some cases you might scale too quickly, right? You might not be able to handle it. Speaker 2: 07:27 You know, Peter, I love what you just said and I hope those of you guys who are listening understand this doesn't apply just to people who have ecommerce businesses. It's not just a free plus shipping offer. The Peter's talking about this goes both ways, so if you have an econ business, one of the things I love what you just said is you actually need to add a back end of a membership site. I can tell you, we look at the. I was talking with Stu Mclaren the other day about memberships and he's all in on memberships and we're doing some joint metro state with him later, but potentially on some of the stuff we're looking at, but the main thing we've seen is even inside of clickfunnels, so our most successful users or those who have a membership site because it, it gets that stickiness there. And I look at Trey Lewellen obviously trade. Speaker 3: 08:06 The thing is when I saw I actually had trail on my channel, uh, but you was getting one know more about your channel where, what's your podcast or your video podcasts are just ecommerce. Empire builders just search searching on youtube or just go to [inaudible] dot com. Uh, but when I started doing this and you comfortable, like years back when I joined click, it was like one of the first, like couple hundred users. But um, he was like the other person doing it in ecommerce. I was like, okay, I'm not crazy. I'm not crazy. Like there's others. But yeah, it's when you understand that it's, it's like the most amazing thing. Like it's literally, it's hard to explain like just like this, but when you look whiteboard it out, you're like, holy crap. Like I can. You can, you can scale as quickly as you want any part of your business. Speaker 3: 08:51 And the look, the beautiful part about it is even if you have like a month of sales, let's say you have a business that's a little bit seasonal, right? But you still have those continuity plans. I can keep that, keep your business afloat, right? So we can reinvest that into advertising, pay yourself, you know, whatever I love, I've always looked at as far. You really don't have a business until you have continuity income coming in to that business and so if, if you have a membership site, one of the best things to do is to actually create a front end product that's a physical product like you just did a, whether it's fishing lures or anything else as a free plus shipping to acquire customers for that much less. And then on the opposite side, you have an econ business. One of the best things to do is to add on a membership site on the back end of it because then you get that continuity income to where you can. Speaker 3: 09:34 Again, most physical products do have some seasonality to it. It's just the nature of the beast and so it's the idea of marrying both physical and membership sites together. It drops your cost to acquire customer increases, your lifetime value of a customer. It's a huge win win. Again, I look at what we've done at clickfunnels. It's exactly how we built click funnels. We've got front end offers, everything from three different books. We've got a lot of digital physical as well as digital product. We've been, again, one of our biggest ones for the longest time is our perfect Webinar, which was a physical product, was a digital product we created as a physical product as a free plus shipping that drove. People obviously enter click funnels, which is our continuity platform, so love, love what you're doing and like one golden nugget. For those of you that do have ecommerce businesses like so digital products to like. Speaker 3: 10:18 That's a great way, especially for those of you, I have a lot of students that do like fitness stuff, like they sell fitness equipment, like if you're selling fitness with women and you're not adding some sort of digital content with it, like you're losing out on so much money, right? You can get whole membership could just be, you know, uh, you know, a membership site where, you know, they're, they're getting content every single month and like one little hack, if you guys are like, oh, I don't want to make my own content, like go find some influencers in this space. They don't have to be like huge influencers, but partner up with them, ask them to make you content. We did that for our fishing business. We just reached out to all these people on Youtube, instagram, they're shooting content, you know, recording themselves, fishing, right? Doing what they already love. Speaker 3: 10:58 So when we come along, but hey, we'll pay you $2,000 a month if you promote us and shoot content for us. They're like, oh yeah, like I already love fishing. Like why would I not take this deal right here? That's such a great tip. Oh my gosh. That is a killer. Love that idea of integration at its best. That's cool. It absolutely. One hundred percent. So you're now obviously the part I love about what you do is you actually teach, but you also do so you're actually. Yes, I understand you have. You're helping other people and your empire builders helping them build their own businesses, but you still keep doing it and I think that's the part I love most about you and your business because it's not just. I'm just teaching people how to do something I did 10 years ago, but I'm actually doing it every day. Speaker 3: 11:38 I'm in the trenches with them. I'm actually making this thing work. So I was looking at, to be honest, it's ridiculously difficult. It's, it's, but it's like I now have to structure my days like, like to the hour, like everything. Like I have certain days where all I record all my content and just have, you know, my vi like I have so many people believe it or not working on just this little leg because I just want to get. I want to get the message out there and I actually, I enjoy doing it, you know, but it's, it's, it's tough. I'm not gonna lie, it's, it's extremely difficult. Alex Sharpe and I were going back and forth on voxer this morning just about this. He just did a podcast about the million dollar myth and the idea as far as soon as you get to a million dollars, you know, quote unquote made it. Speaker 3: 12:20 It's like that's where all the problems and the complexity actually come into your business where you have to now start to systematize and the only way you can scale is by building those types of systems. So I completely understand that. And time management obviously is one of the most difficult things because you're getting pulled in so many different directions because you have so much opportunity. Yeah. Like everybody, you know, they want that seven figure business. But I'm like, like you, it's hard, like even like to run a seven figure business. It is, it is not easy by any means. It's not like, oh well I'm just, you know, have my va's now. And that was something, you know, like you start having a lot of employees, you can't do everything yourself. You got to learn. And this is a lot of people in the ECOMMERCE space, they don't, they have like trust issues, like they don't trust somebody can run their facebook ads better or their google ads or their influencer marketing. Speaker 3: 13:03 You have to, if you're running a seven figure business, you have to be working on your business, not executing like the marketing strategies, right? You have to come up with the marketing strategies and other people can execute it. Who has better experience than you, you know. So Peter, how did you overcome that? Because honestly I think every I, I went to the same situation and in multiple, the multiple business I've been through where it's like I just cannot, they're not going to do it as good as I can. They're not gonna they don't, they're not as invested as it's, I'm totally vested in this thing has to work. If they don't care, they're just getting a check. So how did you overcome that? Mentally, it was the, I'm not going to lie like it was difficult, 100 percent. It was difficult. I went through a lot of people that, um, like for example, the person, it took me a long time to get somebody to run my facebook ads for me because I love doing it. Speaker 3: 13:50 Um, and I hired people that just wasted a lot of money. I wasted a good amount of money. Um, but what I've realized is you have to go with somebody that has a reference and a proven track record. Like it's as simple as that. You cannot go to like, I wouldn't like upwork or something like that and get somebody to run your facebook ads and I don't mean to offend anybody with that, but go find somebody that specializes in, like actually ecommerce and get them to run your ads for you. Somebody that has a track record right where they can show you actually a, uh, you know, they give you a reference. You can contact that business owner and, you know, get some more information, right? Do your due diligence. If anything, do your due diligence or whoever you're going to allow into your business, you know, I love it. Speaker 3: 14:31 So where'd you get your first reference? So when I get my first reference facebook, I found my first phase, but I forget what the facebook group name was, but I saw somebody, um, uh, posts some of the, their client work that they were doing. I reached out to them, um, and just, you know, from then hit it off. Peter. That's awesome. So how large is your team right now? My team for just ecommerce, empire builders, like this digital part portion is about seven people right now. Nobody's full time but separate on seven people, mixture of Va's, people that run like, I don't run. Like for this part of my business, I don't run any ads or anything. All I want to focus on is two things. Okay. Content, right? Because I want to create value, right? And my students, that's all I want to focus on, right? Speaker 3: 15:21 Because those are the two. Those are the two driving factors. I wanted to get it. I don't want to now, you know, not waste, waste my time. Right. Running facebook ads and generating traffic and all that stuff. It is a waste of your time. Your time is much more. It goes back to what's your, what's your specialty, what are you best at, what are the things that only you can do and create content it I forget. I don't know. Did Russell like say that? And I remember I drew that out in my board and I was like, what do I need to do in this business? Right. I did like a, I did a one to do list. I and I did like a need to do list and another like I don't even want to do this list. Right. And the only things I needed to do in this business or wherever my faces. Speaker 3: 15:58 Right. Like you know, instagram stories or like you know, like creating content for the youtube channel during the pilot. Like nobody can do that by me. Right. So that was like the only thing like facebook ads, Google, everything. Like that was completely. I was like, I can hire other people that can do this, I don't need to go because like facebook ads with this portion, part of the business is a lot different than running facebook ads for ecommerce. It's much different. Right. And I was like, I'm not, I don't, I don't want to learn all this. So I'm like, you know, who's the best person running facebook ads with webinars? I'm going to go get that person. Right. So let's say if you don't tell me kind of the numbers here. So Empire builders, you've got seven different people. What's your payroll for those seven? Speaker 3: 16:39 So what's my payroll? So I have like $20,000 a month forever. I'm like, for that it's not. I think people got. So I didn't pay that much for um, like in my ecommerce businesses, it's crazy how many more hands you kind of need on this and it's maybe because of the fact that I don't want to be doing a lot of the work, right? I want to just be focusing on those core things. But yeah, it's roughly 20,000, $20,000 in Va's, you know, people that run traffic. So what's the gross revenue of empire builder then empire builders, what is it doing? Probably doing between 30 and 40 a month. Okay. So about almost half of that is going towards towards building that and I think towards us building the audience and I think that's the part that people have realized. Empire builder is, is primarily your digital space. Speaker 3: 17:38 You still have your econ business running on the side, the differences, obviously your margins are greater on the digital side than it is on the physical. Absolutely. And I'm not one of those people, like some people like cover up the fact that oh he's selling a digital product and you know, but like that's the thing. Like I always tell my, you know, my students and stuff like, no this is another leg of my business, like this is another business for me, right. My business here is to help you. Right. And then I also have my ecommerce businesses as well, like I don't want people to get the wrong message, but like I've been in the ecommerce space for nearly seven years now. That's how I found my success. Only the last six, seven months that I started even doing this empire builder thing. And some people I know in this space, they get kind of offended. Well, oh, he only wants to sell his courses or something like that. No, that's 100 percent. Not The keys. I'm monetizing a skill that I have that changed my life. So, you know, it's, you know, some people feel offended by it, but I'm always honest with my audience about it. Speaker 2: 18:35 You never have to apologize for me on that one. That's it. I love it. So I want to talk to. So let's talk more on this. So as far as empire builder right now, one of the main things you're doing is a Webinar, correct? It's a, it's a, uh, it's a webinar. Yes. Okay. So it's ECOMMERCE, empire builders.com. Is that blend? Yes. Okay. So a ecommerce empire, builders.com. It sends them to a Webinar squeezepage I love when things I was looking at obviously the registration, but big old plus get my free $3,500 per week sales funnel just for showing up. I love the idea as far as the showing up piece. How are you tracking that? I'm so, are you giving it to everybody or you only really just given that to those people show up? So it's, it's actually, honestly, it's sent to everybody. Speaker 2: 19:20 Um, as a followup sequence. But again, I think that's fantastic because I know if it must be right, if you don't know, I, I, again, I think that's important because a lot of people and I figured that's what you were doing. A lot of people like, well, I'm only going to give it to these people who show up and it's, I have. I think there's a scarcity mindset that comes into that where I can only give away my secret stuff to certain people. I am such a huge believer in abundance that just, it as soon as the person gets something, there's this law of reciprocity that just kicks in. They're going to go, oh, I didn't show up, but I still got it. I feel like I owe him something and they started. They just feel more connected to you and obviously I've seen it in, in what you're doing on youtube and how your audience is growing and everything. Speaker 2: 20:01 But again, super cool. As far as that, I wanted to talk to you about your actual, um, on your actual page as far as where they buy. If you don't mind, I'm totally impressed by it. There's, there's a couple I'm firstname.lastname@example.org forward slash go. Okay. Okay. That's the one on the inside. Okay. Okay. So, uh, I've had to get it super cool. One of the things I love is you're phenomenal guarantee. If you implement what I show you a shout out to a sheet for that one act bar. Again, I even see act bars award there in the back for you. That's pretty cool. But my financial guarantee, if you implement what I show you and you don't see a positive Roi within 30 days, not only will I give you a complete refund, I'll give you $100 for wasting your time. Explain to people how that. The Speaker 3: 20:48 thing is, it's one of those things where people, and I didn't realize this until I was in this space, is you have to kind of like ease people's minds, right? Because they're already going into a situation like it's an unknown situation, right? Joining, joining my program, he's like, it's an unknown, right? It's the fear of the unknown. So I want people to have the opportunity if they, if this doesn't work for them, if they don't like it, right, then they have that opportunity to back out. Right? But they look, the thing is with an, a lot of you know, you guys, it's like you just have to do it though. Like there's homework assignments in there, like if you show me you did this, I will personally look at what you did. I will personally take my time out, try and help you out. And if, if you, you know, if you choose, okay, you know what, this isn't for me, then I don't mind giving you a refund and I'll give you 100 bucks. Speaker 3: 21:32 Like, no, it's no sweat off my back. But I want people to understand like a lot of, a lot of people they join courses but they won't do like the actual work that's required. Like the thing about my courses, it's my only one. There'll be my only one. I'm constantly updating it and, and, and, and whatnot. But I can give you everything, everything you need, but you have to be the one that goes and clicks the button. It's like I can't hold your hand and push the buttons for you. Like you have to be the one that goes out there. And once this, like I always stress this to people like to get to a high six and seven figure business. Like you have to want this beyond like anything else. And maybe that's just me because I've been in this space for now. That's the reality. Speaker 3: 22:17 And I failed so many times and literally the only the past five years have I been extremely profitable, my ecommerce businesses and I tell people, I'm like, you are going to hit, you're going to hit roadblocks. There's going to be times where you're like, oh, I want to quit, I want to quit. But that's kind of where like that empire builder, you know, family kind of comes in now. It's like if you feel like crap like Sundays, that's okay. Come into the group, say what's wrong and we're here to lift you back up because there is no easy. I promise you guys, please do not. There is no easy. There is no get rich quick schemes and nothing. Okay? It's every, anything you do in life, anything. You have to give it like a hundred percent, 100, 10 percent to actually make it work for you. I love it. Speaker 3: 22:57 So how often they've had have you actually had to pay out that hundred bucks? I think we did it like five times, but it was people that just want to come in and, you know, I don't want to say, but the, like the, I get people that have access to everything. I don't really drip feed anything. Um, but I, there's people they'll come in and just like steal my stuff and just. And I hate that. That's one of the reasons I don't like it, but like the space, like there's no way to like lock it down, but you know, I, I can't, you know, I, I believe in like reciprocity or whatever. I can't think of the word, but like you know, a Karma, right? I believe in Karma. So you know, it is what it is. I'm a huge believer that you can lock it down a couple different ways, but I still believe in giving it all away. Speaker 3: 23:39 We do the same thing. I love those. I was going through it on that same page that, you know, a lot of times people just put their order form up and it just stops the order form. Everything you have below the order form I think is so killer, a just massive testimonials. What's it like to work with three different testimonials? How do I know funnels will work for you? And it literally goes through if people forget how important the copy is on. I mean, it's one thing to get a person to, to click to say, yeah, I want to buy it. It's a totally different thing to make sure they actually fill everything out and actually buy the bias. I mean, cart abandonment, especially for a guy like you has been an econ cart. Abandonment is obviously one of the biggest struggles most people face. Speaker 3: 24:19 So I want to kind of talk to you about some of your cart abandonment or stick strategies that you got on this page for this one. Um, so I had to. I had somebody set this up for me, Dave. So 100 percent. Um, I do have, if you opted in on that Webinar, there is a term, I mean I think we have probably 25, 30 different emails set up on the automations tab within, within click funnels where if they saw the page or assault if they attended the Webinar or if they missed the Webinar, sorry if the, if they attended the Webinar, but ms dot the offer. And then also if they purchased, we have different sequences for each of those. Um, plus we also have an automation tab under the, that specific order page on the automation tab. More sequences in there. One thing I think a lot of people don't know that you can do this in clickfunnels. Speaker 3: 25:12 I don't know why. Like you can send emails like based on certain people did or didn't buy from you. I truly don't think a lot of people know that tad and set it up, hey, if they didn't buy this hotel and I'm gonna, give away another one. Right? Guys, if they don't join your continuity program and your ecommerce business, you should have like some email sequences on that page and say, Hey, well here, how about we throw in this extra, you know, fishing lure, right, and you to join our program and send them back to a specific order page. Right. A lot of people, they don't buy from the first time. They will not buy from you from the first time. So take take as much like know to all the research that you have available for you. Like take them. Like if you, if you can email them, email them, right? Speaker 3: 25:55 If you'd adult span, but you should be emailing them all, you know, at least for the next three days after they saw, you know, first came in contact with you. Oh, I totally agree. Again, I love some of the that I'm going through it here. I love what you've done primarily because so often people will do just one thing or I'll put a video testimonial or I'll put some copy there or I'll put some written testimonials. You literally throw everything in. So you've got the video testimonials. You've got sales copy and then after the sales copy you've got actual testimonials. So again, the great part is you've got as you're going through it, two or three different buttons to actually as far as a call to action to have go order it again. But the cool thing is you also then have more student success stories at the bottom where it's, it's actual testimonials you've either received as a facebook message. You received them as a, as Speaker 2: 26:43 a text. I'm looking at some these other ones here and a, Speaker 3: 26:46 I just screenshot it all day long, you know, just like every time I see my screen out, throw it in there, throw it in there. Speaker 2: 26:52 Yeah. And then you end up with your 30 day money back guarantee and then frequently asked questions. So again, you take a look at your, at your page here and it's, it's as long as a typical sales copy vsl would be at, it's just on the order form. And I think most people miss out on. Speaker 3: 27:09 That's the thing, it's like use like a lot of um, people that will do webinars to just order page, like a very simple order page and that work they used to honestly do it that way, but then I was like, you know, why not just throw a bunch of testimonials and you're like, it can't hurt. And it did help. It helped tremendously. Like people want to see other people making money. I'm using this and I mean if the a two comma club awards aren't enough that you guys already shown because I already. That's Kinda like what I share is like the click funnel strategies that I use then I don't know. I don't know what else. Could not convince them money. Speaker 2: 27:41 I love it. I also liked the fact that you've got basically the single pay six figure funnels for one pay and then you also have six figure funnels for, for paid the radio button defaults to the sixth period for the one pay. How many people, what have you noticed as far as how many people take the four papers? The one thing, Speaker 3: 27:57 um, I would say it's like 50 slash 50, but I want to actually want to comment on that and I don't know if you guys see this too Dave, the people that have gone on the payment plan or like not like if they're not like a serious about it or they're just like, oh there's dipping their toe in and totally. But like I can tell you that people like, like my personal mentoring students, my mentees, like they invest a lot more money to work with me everyday. We boxers but like they are the ones I know I can serve them at the highest because you know I'm working with and they invested on, they know like hey, I just invested online like I need to make this work for myself, you know? And it's those people that I think actually see results and I've taken payment plans for things I've done in my life too. I'm not telling people don't look, don't go into debt to buy anything. But that's just an observation that I've made. Speaker 2: 28:51 Oh No, it's very valid opposite. We actually got, I was kind of curious because we got rid of our payment plans because of that one thing where I literally all we wanted, we're on our webinars. We just want people who are serious now obviously do we miss out on some? Yes, but for us it's. I've learned, Gosh, only for too many years of experience on this thing and that is those who pay play and if they don't pay, they don't play. They just. It's the craziest thing. If you think you're going to go on a payment plan and you're going to test it, you know what? I would much rather have a person have pain and you know, grant Cardone is the funniest guy in the world when it comes to data. He's like, if your credit card's already maxed out, who cares? Go get another credit card. Speaker 2: 29:31 You're already in debt. Just his mentality of sales, but I think there's some truth to if the only way you're going to get out is you've got to make an investment and if you're not willing to make that investment, and I. it's hard for some. I know even some of the people who are selling, they feel like, well, I need to give them an easy out. And I'm like, I don't know if I agree with that. I think at times, given people an easy out gives them an excuse to quit and most of them do. I'd rather have a person who's totally serious. He was gone all in on this thing. I actually had this conversation with my wife, uh, because I've got my son Chandler is 22 years old, recently married, got married in January, and then unbeknownst to me, signed up for our two Comma Club coaching program, funnel hacking live paint 1800 bucks a month. Speaker 2: 30:15 And my wife's like, Dave, you've got to tell him to stop that. I'm like, Sweetie, I'm not going to tell him to stop. I said, I don't want them to do it just because he feels like he's obligated because of my position with click funnels, but I want him to feel pain. I want him to struggle every single month, uh, to try to figure this thing out. Because without putting forth that pain, it's just, it's not without pain. People don't move and there has to be. And it's honestly like the amazing how like different. Some people are like I've had like, like 18 year olds and like I didn't discover it in a marketing team until I was 18. That's when I was in college. Um, Speaker 3: 30:51 I don't join. I'm going to put your 18. Like what? Like it's crazy how motivated like younger people are right now. A lot of people are like, they're so hungry for this to make it work. I'm so envious of them. I'm like, oh my God, eight years old man. Like I remember when I was 18, I'd, I don't think I would ever personally, um, if I could turn back time, I would tell myself, you know, cut the learning curve. A lot of people they riff. They are so like stubborn I guess. And I was 200 percent. I was to go get like whoever, whoever you, whoever has what you want, right? Whoever it is. Like if you're trying to lose weight or start a business, whatever you're trying to go find somebody that you relate to and pay them for an hour of their time, sort of getting closer to that person. Right? It's, I'm telling you like, why waste five years of your life if you could just talk to this person for a few hours every single month where they cut that learning curve for you. Right. And I wish, honestly, I wish I could tell myself I wish I could tell myself that like 10 years ago, I invested in a mentor sooner. Right? Learn what you want it. Speaker 2: 31:53 Totally agree. It's funny. I, I've been trying to get in shape my entire life and I, I dabbled again, I'm totally to the type of person you were talking about, right? Dabble with it for two or three weeks I stopped and, and so funnel hacking live was literally six months away and Russell and I, they're talking about is that, you know, I'm going to get. I'm gonna get a trainer and Russel, I work out occasionally and so we thought, all right, we're, we're actually gonna do this. We're going to go all in and, and the trainer was like, well, you know, it's x amount of dollars per month, and I'm like, no, no, no, I'm going six months into this thing. I want to pay you all up front. And so, you know, kind of at 5,000, $6,000, check whatever it is. And I'm like, I need to know I've had the pain. I don't want to have an excuse. I don't want a way out. I want to know. And then I'm getting up at 4:30 in the morning to be there at 5:00, which I hate, but I've never been so consistent in my life. Been I'm three weeks Speaker 3: 32:40 into this, three days in a row. Should I be doing more? Yes. But at the same time it's a huge win for me and against. Because I went through the pain of cutting a big check and it's a way to take accountability. It is, totally is. Totally is. Well Peter, I could talk to you all day long. I love what you're doing. You're absolutely crushing it. I love how you're publishing like crazy right now. And you realize that's your, that's your zone of genius. So congratulations on all your success. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me on here. Honestly. Um, it's crazy. It's surreal that I'm not even on this, on the podcast where it's amazing. So thank you so much for having me. My pleasure. Any last words for our audience or I'm sure they're gonna wanna know. How do they get ahold of you for. Speaker 3: 33:15 So tell me how they get a hold yet. Any last word you want to give him, your ecommerce empire builders.com or Peter Peru Dot Com. It will lead you to the same place. But one parting word got parting words, right? Is like, just be patient. Just be patient with this stuff. Don't think that anything is overnight. Like I'm telling you, I've. My success story is 10 years long, 10 years a sane person would have quit by now like 100 percent. But I can tell you one thing is, and I think about this often, I'm like, where would I be if I quit? Like, and I'm so happy I don't have that regret. Like 100 percent guy, like, I'm so happy I don't have that regret. Congratulations again, Peter. Always a pleasure. I can't wait to see you again real soon bud. Yeah, thanks man. Speaker 4: 33:57 Hey everybody. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to podcasts. If you don't mind, could you please share this with others, rate review this podcast on itunes. It means the world to me where I'm trying to get to as a million downloads here in the next few months and just crush through over 650,000 and I just want to get the next few 100,000 so we can get to a million downloads and see really what I can do to help improve and and get this out to more people at the same time. If there's a topic, there's something you'd like me to share or someone you'd like me to interview, by all means, just reach out to me on facebook. You can pm me and I'll be more than happy to take any of your feedback as well as the people you like me to interview. More than happy to reach out and have that conversation with you, so again, go to Itunes, rate and review this, share this podcast with others and let me know how else I can improve this or what I can do to make this better for you guys. Thanks.
Aired 7 months ago 29:02
Helping Business Owners Be Seen - Joe Fier & Matt Wolfe - FHR #283
Why Dave Decided to talk to Joe and Matt: Joe Fier & Matt Wolfe are the co-founders of Evergreen Profits and absolutely love showing people how simple it really is to get seen online in competitive industries. They share their system of driving targeted traffic that turns into leads and sales to business owners who want to scale (but have failed in the past). They aren't an agency (they're pretty much the anti-agency). Having generated over $100 million for themselves and their clients, Matt and Joe pride themselves on helping other business owners who want to be seen, and give great advice on affiliate marketing strategies and audience growth systems. Tips and Tricks for You and Your Business: Traffic strategies (2:30) SEO strategies (4:10) Creating content around affiliate offers (7:30) Using ManyChat as live chat (12:40) Funnel Stacking (15:50) Quotable Moments: "People want to be talked to as a human, not an automated bot" Tools: Yoast SEO EvergreenProfits.com/funnelhacker Links:FunnelHackerRadio.com FunnelHackerRadio.com/freetrial FunnelHackerRadio.com/dreamcar ---Transcript--- Speaker 1: 00:00 Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast, where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets, and how you can get those same results. Here's your host, Dave Woodward. Well everybody. Welcome back to funnel hack Speaker 2: 00:18 radio. I'm your host, Dave Woodward. You guys are in for a treat today. I have opted to have two amazing podcast host as well as guys who are absolutely crushing it. So let me know just to you guys, Joe and Matt Wolfe. What can the show guys? Hey man, how you doing? Thanks for having us on. I'm so happy to have you guys. So these guys are the cohost of hustle and Flowchart, which is an amazing, amazing a podcast. They've got cool, cool guys on there. I just know she had Tom Breeze on a couple of other guys. I've noticed obviously Billie Jean and the whole list. I'm like, Gosh, these events. Read them. Know a lot of these guys. Good Friends of mine. So it's a mucks. The most important thing that I want to make sure those guys who are listening. The reason I wanted to have Joel and Matt on today is these guys are almost anti agency and I want to kind of address why would, why we bring up anti agencies. Speaker 2: 01:06 The main specialty they really have is driving massive amounts of content. Also a of traffic, I'm sorry, using ads and content, podcasts being one of those content pieces, but one of the really cool things these days right now is they have this weird like super power of being able to be seen everywhere, but by the right people. Everyone these days talks about being seen everywhere. It really doesn't matter if you've seen everywhere, if no one cares about you, so we're going to talk today about is how to get seen everywhere by the right people, how to do affiliate marketing the right way, how to actually use ads, content traffic, so hold on tight guys. It's gonna be a fun podcast and super excited at both you guys on the show. This is our favorite topic is just kind of opening up some eyeballs to how traffic can actually be done effectively and not extensively and it's a super easy. Speaker 2: 01:53 Once you get that foundation layer, well do I know that's one of the biggest things most people struggle with is this feels like to do traffic. I got to spend thousands and thousands of dollars. I never know which dollar really works and which one doesn't. It's kind of proverbial going back to the old branding days and you know, 50 percent is going to work. I just don't know which 50 percent it actually is. So with that, let's kind of dive right in guys. So tell me what, where do we start? How does, where do you want to take this thing? All right, so you know, probably the best way to approach this. I'll kind of give a quick breakdown of our traffic strategy and then you can kind of pick it apart if you want and we'll just dive deeper and deeper into it. So the way we drive traffic, is it sort of a combo of Google ads, Seo and facebook ads? Speaker 2: 02:32 Um, so what we'll do is we'll create a piece of content around the problem that our product solves. So a blog post on our wordpress blog, we'll create a piece of content and we'll go to google and we'll find what people are searching for keywords around the content that our problem solves. We're not trying to sell them on that first touch. So for example, one of the examples I gave on a previous podcast was, um, let's say you have a home remedy for, okay. Um, somebody goes to Google and says a in, how do I cure heartburn at home? Right? Well, that person is looking for a solution to their problem. You put content in front of them with some tips on home remedies for heartburn. Now that they've used that content, they essentially raised their hand and said, look, we've got this issue. That's how we know that this problem is interested now, or this person is interested in what we have to offer. Speaker 2: 03:23 Now what we're gonna do is we're going to retarget the heck out of them everywhere. So they're gonna start seeing our ads to our product offering on facebook, on Google display network, on youtube ads onto Bula. Uh, you name it. We've probably experimenting with retargeting on those places, so the key ideas use google search ads so that people are searching for the problems that they have, put content in front of them related to that problem and then just retarget them everywhere once they viewed that piece of content. So that's the sort of game plan in a nutshell that, that we operate under and we do it with both our own products and with affiliate products Speaker 3: 03:56 in our podcast and our podcast. So I'm really curious because Seo is one of the things I just suck at. I've never done anything. You get this thing out. The whole idea as far as google content scares me. It's how do you, how do you really do this thing effectively without having to outsource all of it or do you outsource at all? So there's a combo. We do outsource a little bit. We actually hired some interns and have have a little team as well. We're lean and mean, so we're not a big company so. But it appears that we have this massive budget, which is really cool. It's only being shown to the right people. All these ads, so for Seo, we always use a yoast seo plugin for wordpress sites, so just the free version can do a lot for you if you just turn the all the lights inside the plugin green. I mean that's a good first step. I mean everyone should be doing this and we didn't focus on that for a very long time. We did that for about two months with all the previous existing posts and now what do you know? Organic traffic is the number one player for us. That's how we get most of our traffic. So the retargeting Seo while ast, is that right? Why O a s t a r y s t, Speaker 2: 05:05 yeah, and if you're not familiar with that plugin and essentially what you do is you install it and then we write a new blog post. It says what keyword you're trying to rank for. You plug in that keyword and then we'll give you a whole bunch of suggestions of how to optimize that post so that it ranks for that keyword. So you just kind of follow the list. If you follow the list, there's a little light that starts out red saying you're not optimized. If you follow the list, the light turns green and you're now on Speaker 3: 05:26 page optimized for Seo tools. I'd love to see. Yeah, I mean it's great for existing content. We're all sitting on a bunch of it, so let's optimize that and then you can go further with some new keywords. So how you guys didn't use that on your podcast Speaker 2: 05:42 and cast. We specifically try to rank for our guest's name. That's kind of our big game plan with the podcast is anybody who comes on our show, we want to be on page one for that guest's name. We want our episode with them to be on page one so people will search for, let's say had dave Woodward on our show. They searched Dave Woodward. We're ranked number three probably below your site and you know, maybe click funnels and some of the stuff you're involved in, but ideally we show up on page one as, um, an interview with you that people are interested in. They click into our blog, they click deeper into our blog, defined other, you know, other things, and then based on what they look at on our blog, we then retarget them with offers. Awesome. So you're taking that podcast, make a transcript out of it as a blog article, taking that blog article using seo yoast and other tools to then rank for that Speaker 3: 06:29 guess. Yeah, exactly. And we see it as a big segmentation tool. Any piece of content, no matter what you're producing, we just, she's podcast. It's easy for us. We have a system and it's multipurpose, you know, we can go across the web and upload a transcript to things like a medium, you know, or use that on medium.com. You can make them into slideshare, pdfs and then get traffic that way. So we're big into repurposing, but bringing it into our, bringing people into our ecosystem so we can let those retargeting pixels do their work. Speaker 2: 06:58 Yeah, I love it. Well, I'm really curious on the affiliate side of things because this is one of the things that people are always bugging me about. You know, at first obviously you click phones, has our dream car award winning thing, so you get 40 percent recurring commission plus if you get to a hundred accounts on a monthly basis, you get $500 a month for your car twitter accounts, you get a thousand. So we've always got people saying, how do I get a car, how do I get a car, how do I get this money? And one of the things people I struggle with trying to help people understand is there's more to it than just taking our current links and blasted him everywhere. You are just magical at really creating content around affiliate offers. I want to spend some time on that. Sure. Speaker 3: 07:37 Sounds good. Um, yeah, so we start with I guess our approach. We'll start there as we like to work with tools that we love and ones that we use in our own business so we can put our knowledge, our experience behind all the content that we create around that tool. So, uh, yeah, we'll, we'll usually also work with folks that we kind of know who probably have act like better the relationships we have with that affiliate offer, let's just say that helps the entire thing. So we'll start with creating content and we'll select probably the top five common objections and then from there, you know, that's where we can start pointing ads on Google for instance. And then, um, that's more or less our first touch from Google ads to a piece of content. And then from there we have pixels for Google, facebook, youtube, there's, I mean there's all sorts of different platforms you can retarget on. That's where we call it our cleanup crew. More or less, you didn't buy on the first touch. There's always a call to action inside the value giving a blog post there. But we know that it's gonna take multiple touches. So we feed the Pixel. That's what the guys like. Vince Reed, Billie Jean, all those guys, you mentioned a Tom Breeze, they're all big on feeding the pixel. I think that's the big thing. People have to get over it. Speaker 2: 08:50 Don't go what that means because we hear that term feed the pigs all the time, but I don't people really understand what feed the pixel really needs. Yeah. So if you want to do retargeting, which is, you know, you, someone lands on your website once and now they're cookie cookie drops onto their browser. That's the pixel that you would grab from a facebook or Google ad platform. Uh, so that would be the pixel we're talking about there. And for retargeting you can build this audience. So the Pixel is essentially creating this new audience of visitors who are engaging with your content. So basically the idea is you put a piece of content in front of people, your pixels on there, anybody who views this piece of content is going to see our other ads. So we want to get as many eyeballs on this piece of content as possible so that more people see our other ads. Speaker 2: 09:37 So that's essentially what feeding the pixel is so that our ads are being retargeted all over the place to more and more and more people. I love it. Super Cool. And I guess one little wrap a bow on that, a lot of folks try to get super targeted on, uh, the, you know, the platforms she feed the pixel, you're leveraging their algorithms and the, yeah, the rocket scientists that work at Google and facebook, let's leverage what they've done really well, feed that Pixel and let them do the hard work. Yeah, we'll follow up when it comes to advertising. We've actually kind of gotten in the habit of selecting less and less options inside of facebook and Google and letting facebook and Google optimize for us. So you know, we're going to start with some, some very broad like interest targets on facebook, you know, we may start with like digital marketing or something like that which has $20 million fans, but it's still pretty broad and then we won't set any other targeting and if you let it run for like a week or two overtime, facebook's going to start to figure out which of these people are converting and which aren't. Speaker 2: 10:35 And they're going to start putting more of the right people in front of your ads. So I love that idea. That is super cool, so on the affiliate side, because affiliate marketing is one of the most can be a struggle for a lot of people because they have so many other people competing for the same type of words. Everything else. What are some of the key things you guys are doing? I know you guys, first of all said you take is find out what are the five objections or things about what else? I think there's a lot of ways with affiliate marketing that we go probably way above what most people are willing to do, which is why we've been so successful at it. Um, you know, real quick, I want to make sure we talked about that kind of success because you guys are just your normal affiliate marketers who are making a couple hundred thousand 100 bucks, a thousand bucks or even 100,000. Speaker 2: 11:18 You guys are like seven figure affiliate award winning marketer. I mean, you guys totally get this thing right now. Eighty percent of our business affiliate marketing is our main income stream. We do sell courses and things, but affiliate marketing is our main revenue stream. Um, if you want to learn how we're doing it, that's what we have the courses for, but we make enough money doing what we do. So, um, so, so as far as affiliate marketing goes, there's so many things that we'll do. So, a, we always like to create a landing page so we're never going to send straight to our clickfunnels affiliate link. We're going to send them to some sort of a piece of content that maybe compares click funnels to other alternatives that are there, that explains the various ways we're using click funnels in our business, things like that. We're going to create a lot of content around click funnels and why you should want click funnels. Speaker 2: 12:01 So that's where we're going to drive our Google ad traffic to. Um, another thing that we do is on our landing pages, we always put a little mini chat. I'm not sure if you're familiar with mini chat, but a little of course chat Bot that basically will allow people to communicate with you over facebook messenger. We put that on all of our, all of our pages everywhere across the Internet. So if somebody's interested in affiliate product and they have a question, they get access to me or joe or one of our two team members that are actually in mini chat fielding questions. So we'll actually get into mini chat and close sales over mini chat of products that we don't even own. Um, now I'm want to stop you there because this is one of the things that people screw things up with many chat is they've had this idea as far as it set it and forget it type of approach. Speaker 2: 12:44 You guys are actually, that's one of the things I love about what you guys do. You guys actually using mini chat as live chat, which is something most people don't even consider. It's like, you know, I don't want to do that. I'm just going to set it up and let it run and whatever happens happens. So yeah, we used to use, which was kind of the same idea, a little button thing that said, hey, do you have any questions? They message us and then we'd go into the dark app and respond to people when the mini chat opened up the version where you can do the, essentially the same thing, but it goes to facebook messenger. We got rid of our can just put that on there instead. But yeah, I mean the first two messages are actual automated messages. Like, Hey, what do you need help with, you know, select one of these options that applies. They click one, maybe there's a link to like an Faq or a video or something. And then beyond that a real person jumps in and actually communicates. Speaker 3: 13:32 And we have a whole system. So this is, I'm happy to bring this up because no one is doing this, not even for their own products. And we've had a, we just actually spoke to Mike mcalary of profit first and he bought a product from us and uh, and he noted he was like, you do better customer service than the actual product owners do affiliates doing this because of the follow up. And people want to be talked to like a human, not an automated Bot. People mainly think it's about talking to them. I'm like, no, no, no, no. This is joe here. This is Matt and I'll even do. We'll sometimes do loom videos where it's a customized screen capture maybe a minute or 200 percent of the time. Ninety eight percent of the time people are like, holy crap, you just took that time for me. Like personalized and by then you're pretty much close. They're telling everybody else about their experience. So it's super cool. Not very many chats. Amazing. You can do a lot, but flipping it to be pushed. Personalized and humanlike I think is the key. Um, so deeper down the, the affiliate funnel, Speaker 2: 14:36 no, the list around every single product we promote. So we have a list of people that are interested in click funnels. We have a list of people that are interested in thrivecart and other tool. We promote pushcrew yeah, we do push crew notification. So when, whenever we want do a promotion, we send it out to our entire push crew lists. Um, I don't know. We actually have an affiliate marketing course. It's got 120 different ways to promote products as an affiliate and if you just did them all, I mean there's no reason you can't make six figures a month doing it. Okay, so stop right there and tell people where they can get that because I've known them. People are going to go crazy. So how do they actually get that course? So that would be the best places to go to evergreen profits.com/funnel hacker. Speaker 2: 15:16 So you'll get a book actually, it's a little free book for the coastlines that all this traffic stuff and you'll have an opportunity to see the affiliate course and it's a piece of. It's a piece of a bigger funnel. We'll say that, which again, I want to make sure people understand. I think it's one thing I love about what you guys do is this I refer to is funnel stacking where they come in one funnel and they literally get stacked and layered and that layering is what allowed you guys to really crush seven figures as affiliates. Which is phenomenal. And I think too often people think that I'm going to create one funnel and it's just going to take care of everything for me. So explain kind of how your, how your funnel stacks work. Yeah. So everything is content based and we love to, you know, start with content and interest. Speaker 2: 15:58 Kind of like what Matt was lining out with, uh, you know, we'll have either topics around a specific product or maybe it's podcast and our case and we use that content to segment folks into these different funnels. So these are all different followup sequences based off of the type of content they just consumed. So they'll have, will have an email follow up sequence. Pushcrew has its own kind of marketing, a mini chat has tags as well, so we have the opera and then obviously have the pixels, the different ad networks that are going to show irrelevant affiliate offer or maybe it's additional training and other podcasts we want people to listen to. So that's the idea is using content to kind of leverage where we want to take them. We're personally choosing to go based off of the content. And then as far as far as like the actual funnel elements, you know, I don't want to say this is easy to do, you know, it's kind of a simple concept, but it's not easy to set up everything we do. Speaker 2: 16:53 So one of the things we do is we actually have a split test running all the time on all of our pages. So even when we're promoting affiliate products, let's say we have a landing page that promotes click funnels, I'm going to have two variations of my headline on that page going at any given time or two variations of our video explaining why you should get click funnels or two variations of the button. There is always, always 100 percent of the time I split tests running on both our landing pages and our various ads that we're running. So we're just optimizing, optimizing, optimizing. And I've just, I'm never satisfied. I've got some ads in Google where we're getting percent click through rates on them and I'm still trying to optimize them up into better click through rates. So that's awesome. Matt, go ahead. I was curious as far as when you're doing a split test, how, how often are you changing it? Speaker 2: 17:39 Because the problem I run across people that say I'm going to split test. I do, they set it and they forget about it. It's like dude, you're not doing anything with that. So split testing, so use vwo visual website optimizer to run our split tests and I actually I check in on them once a week, but it really depends on the amount of traffic going to a landing page. Some of our offers get a lot more traffic than others. You know, we've got paged at some pages that will get up, you know, a thousand visits a day on them. So those ones I can legitimately optimize on a once a week basis. Some of them, you know, they'll get a thousand visitors a month so I'm actually, I'm checking on them once a week but I'm actually only going in and making a new variation once. I feel like I've got enough data to really justify a new variation. Speaker 2: 18:20 So you know, so man, do you feel like a thousand is enough? Is that Kinda the magic number? It has got to be technically, I think if you were to talk to like a real hardcore conversion rate optimization guy, he would say that's not enough. Um, for me it's been working. It's been working. We're seeing incremental growth every month. So I'm, you know, I'm happy with the results we're getting out of it. That's the key thing that we had the Aha this year is I think as a business coach and said, okay, look at the little indicators that you have in your business, like conversion rate, uh, you know, traffic numbers, all of that. If you can increase those little bits, that little bits every week, I mean, just look at the compounded effort over 12 months and then look at where you're going to be over that span of time. Speaker 2: 19:00 You will, I mean conservative things about tripling your revenue. Now, you know, if you're just slowly doing just that and then optimizing your ads as well in the same way. And it's not rocket science, you just have to have a really solid offer or multiple offers. And then just do these little small, monotonous tweaks that, you know, it's not starting something from scratch, but as entrepreneurs love doing, staying in your lane and going, oh yeah, that's been a big Aha for us is just the small incremental improvements week over week, over week, look at it over six months. And you went, wow, how did I get from there to here? So how do you guys deal with the whole shiny object syndrome? Because you guys are getting a ton of offers in front of you guys all the time. Speaker 2: 19:41 The best people to ask on that. Matt had been in business together for like 12 years now, which is crazy. He's like my other brother I never had. So we have a similar brain. It's different, but this year I honestly, we, we hired a coach and he told us to stick with the plan for like a year minimum. And that's where I went into the optimizations. That's where we went into a very deliberate mood on what we're doing. Each week. We've even kind of cut down our work time because of just personal things we want to do rather than sitting behind a screen. So we'll, I'll say, I'll say the times, the most difficult thing that gives us shiny objects syndrome is we have a podcast as well, so over the last year and a half since we started this show, we've interviewed 112 people now and every single person has good ideas, so that's where our tiny object syndrome comes into play is we'll get off an episode with somebody and go test that and then like we'll talk to, you know, one of our mentors and they'll be like, no, stay the course, you know, verbally slap us. Speaker 2: 20:40 A mentor works getting super clear on what we're doing now. And then what's the, what's the infinity project? James Schramko calls it like this thing and you're always kind of working on what your team is and that's worked for us. Yeah, no, I love Schramko's infinity project. It's a great, great analogy. He thinks he's a great guy. Yeah. So I'm really kind of curious as far as I'm sitting here going massive shiny object syndrome with a ton of affiliate stuff and going, okay, so evergreen.com four slash funnel hacker. I got to see who's going to go ahead and actually go through all 120 of those and put those in place so we can do. Let us know. We'll give you something cool. If you do that and prove that you've done them all, it'll be good. Yeah, I mean that's. That's the cool thing about affiliate marketing I guess that we want to. Speaker 2: 21:29 It's a great bolt on. You don't have to just do affiliate marketing. Do you have a solid offer that you feel like you're still leaving some things out that you can then leverage someone else's offer product or service or even brokering a deal? We've done so many of those and that's the thing. It all compiles up into more profits based off of what you're already doing. So bolt on. I think that's a good little like, oh, that's it. One of the things you guys made mentioned, which I don't hear too many people talking about these days and that's Taboola. Do you wanna explain what to Bula is and how you guys were using it. So taboola is what's called a native advertising platform and essentially what it is is if you ever go to some of these bigger sites like CNN or Msnbc site, you read some news and you scroll down to the bottom of the news site, it'll say you know, also recommended and there'll be some little ads and usually they're very like click baity looking ads with the image. Speaker 2: 22:21 You can't really make out what they're doing in the image. And they're like, you know, wait until you see what this guy did after he ate a pickle or whatever. And you're like, oh, I need to click on this. What is this? Right? So you see these on these big platforms, these new sites, and it's down at the bottom and they call it native advertising because it looks like it's native to the site. It looks like, like you're clicking on more internal content on the site, but when you click to it, it's, you know, an external site and the extent of what we've really experimented with is just purely retargeting because the idea being if they view a piece of content, we want them to see us in as many places as we can possibly put ourselves. So there'll be a piece of content. Maybe the content is around, you know, click funnels, here's all the way we use click funnels and now all of a sudden they're seeing our ads to our landing page about clickfunnels. Speaker 2: 23:08 They'll see them at the bottom of an MSNBC page. They'll go to somebody's blog, they'll see it on Google display network, on the sidebar banner. They go to facebook, it will be in their feet. You know, it's just part of being everywhere. And so our budget for it isn't very big. We don't get just a ton of impressions on that. We might spend $7 in a month on it because it's a very low volume play, but it's part of that branding thing is part of that psychological thing. We're holy crap, I'm seeing these guys everywhere and that's what it does for us at least. I love that. A two bullets. One of the things we're starting to play around with ourselves. So I, again, I haven't heard too many people playing around with it says, cool, you guys are using it. Yeah. Yeah. And it, it's, it's great for feeding the Pixel to um, you know, we tried to put some of our content, the same kind of content that if somebody searched google, they would see those blog posts. We tried to put that in some of the native ad platform stuff and put some like click baity links just to feed the pixel. And what we noticed was the time on site from those people was like three seconds long. And we're like, okay, these people are clearly not spending the time required to be a good prospect. So we actually cut out all cold traffic from taboola and just made it purely a retargeting play for us. But their dive back into it in the future, I'm sure we will. That's the key. Speaker 3: 24:20 Just be on his men. If you have, you know, the access to all these platforms and can just do retargeting, why wouldn't you just place that Pixel on your site and let it do its work? Keep an eye on the budgets, you know, make sure you're not spending a boatload of money but, but the branding play, you know, it's what five to seven touches is the average. They always say, for someone to make a conversion, well might as well do it this way. That's how we choose it. Speaker 2: 24:41 And I mean with the, with the risk of sounding like I'm kissing butt a little bit, something like click funnels makes it really easy because once you get something one of these funnels that works really well, there's a little button that says, clone your press that button and you do it all over again. Wonder how we do that landing page, that evergreen product. I love it. So obviously one of the things you guys are magicians ad is making sure that you're seen by everywhere, but most importantly by the right people everywhere. And I appreciate you guys spending time with the state as we kind of get close to wrapping things up here. Joe, Matt, anything else you guys want to leave with our audience? I think Speaker 3: 25:16 the big thing is, is just the Aha is, is think about how you can bring all these platforms and let them work together. A lot of folks try to keep things. I'm a facebook guy, I'm a google guy. Well, why not be everything you know, and focus on your input where, where, where's the best input they could bring those qualified eyeballs to your ecosystem. And then, you know, let the magic happen with the platforms. Speaker 2: 25:39 That's the big thing. I mean, you pretty much covered it. Um, you know, and, and we do the same thing with the podcast. We didn't really dive too deep into it, but with the podcasts, um, you know, that's the podcast could be huge. If anybody who's thinking about doing a podcast, I'm always blown away with the excuses. People don't, they give for not having a podcast because it's probably been the most impactful thing we've ever done in our business. But you can do what we call our invisible podcast funnel where essentially people listen to an episode and then once they listened to an episode of, let's say we had a, a creator of a software product on the podcast, we can interview that person than anybody who listened to that interview. All the sudden we can now retarget them with that person's. So it's just a real quick way to use and monetize a podcast through, you know, that that's essentially them raising their hand and saying, I'm interested in this because they just spent an hour with me, Joe and the creator of the product. Speaker 2: 26:34 They're going to start seeing everywhere now. So take for example, you guys had me on, if you have me on your podcast, you didn't win target click funnels because we'd be talking about click funnels and everything else. And then you're going to have your affiliate link type to see all those ads that we send them to a landing page. We wouldn't, we'd never really linked straight to an affiliate link. We would send them to a landing page. That way we have the opportunity to, to, um, capture him on an email list and give some reasons why you should get it through our link and maybe offer up some bonuses and things like that. Uh, but yeah, that's exactly what we do. We would put our landing page for clickfunnels in front of anybody who listened to our episode together. Yep. Oh, such a cool idea. Speaker 2: 27:12 We should probably do that. I'll probably do that. That sounds fun. Anything else guys? Again, thanks so much. Yeah, just everybody. Evergreen profits.com/funnel hacker. You can go down the rabbit hole and learn a little deeper and that's going to get something. This book right here, it's called, um, the evergreen traffic playbook. That's the book that will give away for free. We'll give you a free digital copy email@example.com slash funnel hacker. There you go. Awesome. So guys, again, check it out. Evergreen profits Dr. Com, forward slash funnel hacker. So again, evergreen profits.com, forward slash funnel hacker. They're kind enough to give you guys a free copy digital copy of the book. And most importantly, you then get a top into their funnels and see how you get retargeted literally all over the entire world online and take it down and follow exact what they're doing. So again guys, thank you so much. You guys are amazing. It's always fun talking to you guys. We'll talk soon. Speaker 4: 28:11 Thank you. Hey everybody. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to the podcast. If you don't mind, could you please share this with others, rate and review this podcast on itunes. It means the world to me or I'm trying to get to as a million downloads here in the next few months and just crush through over $650,000 and I just want to get the next few 100,000 so we can get to a million downloads and see really what I can do to help improve and, and get this out to more people. At the same time, if there's a topic, there's something you'd like me to share or someone you'd like me to interview, by all means, just reach out to me on facebook. You can pm me and I'm more than happy to take any of your feedback as well as if people would like me to interview more than happy to reach out and have that conversation with you. So again, go to Itunes, rate and review this, share this podcast with others and let me know how else I can improve this or what I can do that do to make this better for you guys. Thanks.
Aired 3 months ago 33:58
The Road to Becoming King of the Hill in Your Industry - Josh Rhodes & Sam Hill - FHR #315
Why Dave Decided to talk with Josh Rhodes and Sam Hill: When it comes to simplicity, Josh Rhodes and Sam Hill are the Kings of the Hill. They’ve taken their business to the 2-Comma Club level with simple steps that they feel everybody else overlooks. Their success is attributed to the use of such simple steps. If you want advice on how to build your own business to a level you are proud of, tune in and buckle up. This duo has made a living off getting people to that level, let’s see if they can’t help you start to see your own potential. Tips and Tricks for You and Your Business: (2:42) Buckle Down on the Simple Things that Consistently Work For You (3:49) Sam and Josh Advise Us to Never Forget the Middle of the Value Ladder (6:31) How Do We Get More Specificity in Our Businesses? (11:06) Going Simpler Will Allow You to Get Richer (14:41) Funnel Hack the Offer HERE (16:51) Here’s How We Can Better Guarantee Your Clients’ Success (18:08) You Need to Understand Your Business and the Dreadful Scope Creep (19:42) The Money Doesn’t Mind for Passion, It Goes the Path of Least Resistance (22:34) You Can Never Have Too Many Leads, Some Are Rotten Regardless (24:14) You Should Hire Salespeople When You… (28:28) Selling Avatars, Have You Heard About These? Quotable Moments: (2:50) “I think for us, our breakthrough was when we doubled down on who we served, what their pain point is, and how to distribute solutions that work to them.” (7:54) “Here’s where the guts come in, you have to have the courage to leave a ton of money on the table at first.” (23:56) “We actually burn a lot of leads. Like, some of those leads are like some of those bananas you don’t get to eat on the counter because they’re already bruising and rotting or whatever.” Other Tidbits: Know your customer’s margins so you can know how you need to price. Scope Creep is a forgivable mistake, it’s just going to happen. Just remember to always learn from those mistakes. Important Episode Links: moneylineworkshop.com/free FunnelHackingLive.com FunnelHackerRadio.com FunnelHackerRadio.com/freetrial FunnelHackerRadio.com/dreamcar ---Transcript--- Speaker 1: 00:00 Welcome to funnel hacker radio podcast where we go behind the scenes and uncover the tactics and strategies top entrepreneurs are using to make more sales, dominate their markets and how you can get those same results. Here's your host, Dave Woodward. Speaker 2: 00:17 Everybody, welcome back to funnel hacker radio. This is going to be a ton of fun today. I had the opportunity of having two dear friends on this show with me, Josh Rhodes and Sam Hill. Guys walk through the show. Thanks for having us man. I'm super excited. These guys love talking to friends from the south because they're super simple, but at the same time, right? There's crushing it. So will Sam and Josh have had the opportunity of being a two car, two Comma Club award winners. Jaci also is one of our dream car warm winters. So guys, the thing I like most is we're kind of trying to figure out what's the best thing to talk about. And I think as we're looking at funnel hacking live is literally like three, four days away. Stress here in the office. These guys just basic on as he know what, it's all easy guys. Speaker 2: 00:57 It's super simple. We have basically just two funnels. And out of those two phenols we've built multiple seven figure businesses. So I thought what a better way of just diving in and letting these guys really kind of explained to you how they are taking the little are the poster child or Porsche poster children, uh, really being one funnel away. And that's kind of the, one of the things I want to talk to you guys about today and really let them kind of shed some of their light and their knowledge and their experience running multimillion dollar businesses on exactly how you literally can be one funnel way and what they've done to simplify all that. They've got a business they run called Moneyline workshop. They'd have the option and working in agencies so these guys know what they're talking about. They're out there actually doing it, which is the part I love most more than anything else is I hate bringing people on who have, are just teaching, but they don't actually do. These guys are actually doing so with that guys, let's kind of dive right into it. Anything else you guys want to add? No, that's great. I'll, I'll say this that, uh, Sam plays an unbelievable role as the president of our businesses and I get to be the Mickey Mouse CEO, so he's actually probably going to provide way more value than anybody in [inaudible] hall. Man. I hope you didn't deliver, say, Speaker 3: 02:11 yeah. So, you know, I think a big part of our experience thus far, you know, Josh and I have a pretty diverse background. Our stories kind of crazy. I came from corporate sales, I owned a home inspection franchise back in the day and that's actually how Josh and I met. So our origin stories kind of kind of funky. He was a coalmine specter. Yeah. That's how we met, you know, 10 some odd years ago. Uh, and I think that when we kind of fell down this, this internet marketing online business rabbit hole, I think for a while, you know, you're, you're looking at, there's so much out there, there's so many different types of offers, types of funnels, types of niches. And I think for us, our, our breakthrough moment was when we doubled down on who we serve, what their pain point is and how to distribute solutions that work to them. Speaker 3: 03:01 And I think clarity, having clarity on your offer, clarity on who you reach, what you do for them and how to get that offer in front of them really are breakthrough thing. And you can really spend a lot of time trying to figure out the different tech components and how many steps you need and in your funnel. And I think for us, for awhile we kind of spun our wheels trying to figure out how fancy we needed to get once we got really, really simple and went deep on that one offer, things really started to happen for us or anything you'd add that Josh? Speaker 4: 03:35 No, we, we've had dotcom secrets and expert secrets at an arm's length the whole time as kind of our Almanac, if you will. And um, we've really focused on the middle of the value ladder. I don't know if many of your guests have talked about the, the middle of the value ladder word. The deliverables aren't too overwhelming, but the profit margins are just good enough to where you can really build a business there. And then now what we've done is we've built out the top and the bottom of our value ladders. That's really helped to scale revenue. So we can, we can obviously dive in. There's a lot of meat there I think you can dive into, but we will let you know, Josh, I really wanted to kind of talk about that part there because I think too often people get so focused on, well, I'm going to start with a lead gen product first and I'm going to do this, this pdf and this pdf is going to lead to a membership site. Membership sites going to lead to a Webinar, the Webinar, and you just burn out. You don't have enough money, don't have enough resources to really build that business. And I know we've talked a lot at different times about the middle of the value ladder as that starting point. If you don't mind, kind of expound on that as far as what actually is your middle of the value ladder and what, Speaker 3: 04:39 what did you guys start with first? Here's what's crazy. We don't have a Webinar, we don't have any lead magnets. So it's like when you look at our, our, our sort of offer and our value ladder, a lot of people are like, wait, like when we do our Milan workshops are like, wait a minute. That's it. It's like, yeah, that's it. There's nothing else to show you. Um, you know, we went straight for that two to $5,000 ticket range and went straight from a Facebook ad to an actual phone call and we use our indoctrination or warmup sequencing to sort of take the place of a Webinar or to an extent and show them that we're having a ton of success for our clients. And then we go right on that phone call and we've got a four point script that we use to close a two to five k deal. Speaker 3: 05:26 And we sort of have built our business kind of backwards in some way. And Josh like chime in. But we started out with high ticket to create cashflow, uh, to create Roi on our ad spin. And then, you know, now we've spent the last year or two going back and sort of backfilling with more of an agency Mrr model. Um, so it's kind of interesting because we talked to a lot of people in our Moneyline workshop that are trying to do agencies right, which is awesome. Uh, but they're trying to build up their client base enough with enough retainers month basically to hit their income target, which is totally cool and works. We sorta did it the opposite. We started out with, you know, training products at high ticket value, high gross margin, and then we've sort of now doubled back and we have both and we've built this sort of sort of foundation, you know, after the fact. Um, Josh chime in on that. Speaker 4: 06:17 Yeah. Like, um, if you're listening to this podcast or an interview and you're trying to make, make a run at this thing called business or entrepreneurship and you're, you don't yet have specificity on the potential customer Avatar and what your offer is for them. The, the, the greatest way to get to that specificity is get on the phone obviously. And which I know we're not the first person to tell, you know, to give that advice. But what's going to happen is it's going to take you out of an economical whirlpool that I think a lot of people get taught in, which is trying to sell 49 to $97 widgets, whatever that might be and how they may be noble and excellent products. Don't get me wrong, but the sheer economics and the principles of capitalism or are going to keep you at bay and you're going to find yourself stuck. Speaker 4: 07:15 And so what we did is we looked out and said, okay, which, um, which potential prospects out there are in it for themselves and they have to eat what they kill and they know that if they aren't killing, they're not eating. Okay. Those people probably have some kind of bleeding neck pain that we can go try to solve, provide a tourniquet for. And then we said, okay, instead of charging $97 for the problem, let's just go charge two to five k but here's the, here's where the guts come in. You got to have courage to leave a ton of money on the table at first. And when, I mean a ton of money, a lot of potential $97 transactions or whatever small price point that you're wanting to start with because of maybe your self esteem or, or, or imposter syndrome or whatever. Maybe you're dealing with, you've got to be cool with having a 5% or less global conversion rate on your sales calls for example. Speaker 4: 08:14 And you've got to be okay leaving money, quote unquote on the table. And then once you get to a place, like we didn't even have two offers until um, we were well into two comma club land. Um, we did two comma club and 10 months I believe maybe with a little less than that. And then it was probably 16 months before we introduced our second offer period. And the second offer was an agency model. Um, and now we get to it's funnel stacking to some extent or revenue model stacking to where we enjoy a little bit of both worlds but we didn't try to enjoy that in our profit margins were able to underwrite us cause we just lived in the middle of that value ladder instead of trying to, you know, sell enough $97 widgets or we also had the knowledge or at least the awareness to not try to go sell and maybe you can, but we didn't go start at a 25 or 50 k contract value. Speaker 4: 09:09 We just kind of lived in that two to five k world. They're in the middle of the value ladder and it was scalable and it worked well. I know that get on the phone is a scary thing for a lot of people. And uh, how did you guys overcome that fear of, again, you're going basically from a Facebook ad to a phone call application. Is that right? Yeah, yeah. It'll, what's your cost per [inaudible], your DPL or what's your, how much do you spend in basically to get that phone to ring? So, um, I think you said something, Dave, you know, or you alluded to this, which is a lot of people don't understand like especially Internet marketing can be a Assad to some extent because you, you, you don't think like a business owner right out of the gate. It, Internet marketing is so accessible, like online business, so accessible. Speaker 4: 09:57 You're not necessarily understanding that you've got to have drag gunpowder and capital. And the, um, one thing that we quickly established was the metric that you just asked for, which is, um, in our world cost per booking or cost per appointment, um, in our lingo and we will average anywhere between 15 and $45 depending on the time of the day that Mark Zuckerberg and the other social warlords decided the outlet. But anyway, once you know, um, those, those numbers, you can pretty much pushed the brake or the gas pedal on the floorboard of your business is whenever you want to. And it gives you the control that a lot of people give. But then once you know those, they're like the candlelight deceiving lead metrics. Cause then you got to really know, well how many of those phone calls do I need before I close deals, et cetera. So you, you've got to start somewhere. And that cost per lead cost per booking, those are, those are great places Speaker 3: 11:03 to start looking at it. Go ahead. No, I was going to say, you know, you asking about getting on the phone and you know, w we have a sales script, you know, just like you've got a headline and a Facebook ad and you've got a headline on a, on a landing page and you know, like we just use sales scripts and which sounds old fashion and it Julie, not all that is sexy and exciting, but it works. And I think that's what enables you to have confidence is because really at the end of the day, I think being simpler and your offer and kind of what you do simplifies everything else, right? So when you go deep on one offer, it makes your traffic simpler, it makes your booking simpler, it makes your sales calls simpler to make sure delivery and your ability to help your clients have success. Speaker 3: 11:51 Simple as well. Because you're focused on one thing and you have a deliverable that you can, you can actually fulfill for your clients and help them achieve depending on how you know, what you're offering, man, it makes everything simpler. So the crazy thing is that our social proof and our customer success skyrocketed when we doubled down on one offer. Um, that, that was also one of the fascinating things we elevated, but our clients also elevated big time. So when we're on a call, a sales call, to kind of touch on that, we just use a really simple sales script, which kind of takes the pressure off, you know, because we're not trying to razzle dazzle on every call. It's just we've got a really simple talk track that's focused on their pain points are offer and how we can help them be our next success story. Which kind of goes back to that clarity and simplicity thing. You know, versus trying to dabble in all this different stuff. We just really said, let's dominate one offer, you know, and, and so on. So, you know, that's it. Speaker 4: 12:52 So what is, who is your, who's your niche? Who Do you guys, are you guys going after for that two to $5,000 price point? Yeah. So, uh, real estate agents, loan officers, uh, is one business. And then Moneyline workshop is really anyone trying to build a client based service, business agency owners, consultants, coaches. If you provide any level of done with tee or done for you service. And that goes for anybody out there listening. Like it could be a limousine service, it could be a life coach, it could be just about any vertical needs, some kind of done for you service, which is something I skipped over while ago. Like if you're out there listening to you need traction, create a done for you service. It's the easiest thing to sell on the planet. And we didn't do that at first and that's why our global convergence percentage was so low. Speaker 4: 13:44 But we have profit margins built in so that when we did close the deal it was a massive cash injection. And now we have a little bit of both worlds. And the thing that flies off the shelf is our done for you service. And it is just once you, like, like Sam said, once you have a script, you gotta be loyal to the script and not get emotional about your conversations and try to tailor everything. You got to control the conversation and keep everybody in a world of, in your world or they'll take it, they'll take you down, what's wrong with Momma and then I'll take them fail and they'll, you know, all that. But if you can maintain control, it's really kind of like ab split testing with the click funnels landing. It's like this script versus this script, but I've got to be loyal to these, these scripts or you'll never know what really works. Speaker 4: 14:31 I love that. So what is your guys off for the two to 5,000 bucks? What did they get? They get, um, a training element, ongoing training elements to help them acquire certain skills. Um, they get ongoing support and coaching. Um, we provide them with a, um, uh, software element and um, depending on where they enter in their, with their investments, they might get a few other things. Like maybe we might help them launch some campaigns. You know, done with you type type, it is very much a done with you program, the high ticket quote unquote, depending on where your price point is and maybe your vertical can withstand a $10,000 middle of the value ladder offer, you know, like a dentist or an ophthalmologist is going to be able to pay more than you know, maybe someone who owns a garage door repair business. It's just because their average customer values are higher, which I guess now that I'm thinking out loud, if you're trying to determine your price points, look at your potential customer avatars, avatars, average customer value. Because if they're a plastic surgeon averaging $8,000 a procedure there, they're able to pay you more per lead or poor per deliverable than maybe someone who has a hundred or $200 like a locksmith. Speaker 2: 15:51 I totally agree. I had that conversation. My son Chandler the other day, we were talking about, uh, you know, he's kind of going through and the same type of thing, building out this agency model and you know, you have to kind of pick whoever your avatar is going to be. And realize whoever you pick, they have certain numbers that they just, it's Roi for them. I mean it's like they know I can only spend x to acquire a customer. And I think the biggest mistake a lot of agency owners make is they don't know who their customers, they don't know what those metrics are for that customer. And it's very hard to price your services if you don't know what your client basically what their, what their metrics are as well. So I really appreciate you're hitting on that Josh. Yeah. Speaker 3: 16:27 Say something else today that I think Josh just said that, you know, brought a lot of stuff to my brain. I think another sort of key for us was when we figured out this progression from do it yourself customer too, we'll do it with you customer to, we'll do it for you customer. And I think a lot of times people aren't thinking, you know, entrepreneurs aren't thinking about those three different types of delivering your value to the customer. And one of the things we learned from Russell actually was, you know, you can deliver the same thing or similar value pieces in different experiences, different theater. Some people like to do it themselves and get their logins and go on their merry way. Other people really like to like have a coach alongside with them so you're actually doing the deliverable with them and then other people like it when you just do it for them when you build the funnel form or whatever. Speaker 3: 17:19 Right. And we've sort of evolved our offer over the years now where like we see a trend with our clientele even, you know, across all of our verticals. Doing it within is extremely valuable. You know, versus there's a lot of courses out there in courses are great and there for the right person sometimes they're a fantastic fit, but we really pivoted our offer from here's your logins, good luck to hey, we're going to do it with you. And almost as much as we can guarantee your success in your experience with the program, which in turn has fed our social proof dramatically, right? Like, as we've invested more in their success, they're invested more on our success. So it's pretty interesting when, in terms of the high ticket game, so tell me guys, how have you guys been able to avoid scope creep in a done for you are done with you type of program? Because I know especially in the agency model, scope creep is one of the hardest things. Did you, do you want to over deliver? But at the same time we go on, Speaker 4: 18:18 man, I should've sold a nice $7 price point and just walked away. Yeah. Uh, well first of all to say we perfectly have would be a lie. Uh, we, we are entrepreneurs after all and there's a hallway full of doors and they all say opportunity on him. And Sam and I are salesmen as well and we love persuasion and we love just getting the validation of the sale. And so we've, we've had to slap our own risks. Um, but at the same time, it's not necessarily a, you know, I think it's a forgivable sin too to have scope creep, but at some point you definitely have to make a decision and come to level five agreement together and go, you know what? We cannot do the custom video branding element for every customer, but we can do this Google ad words campaign for everybody because it works for everybody and we don't have to spend five hours on that as opposed to the custom video, you know, et Cetera, et Cetera, whatever the illustrations are out there. And so, um, you, you, you avoid scope creep by being loyal to your metrics that matter to the growth of your business and the results of the client. A lot of times if you have an emotional connection or some aspiration that you want, that can get in the way of what actually matters in the true business because the money is agnostic, it doesn't care about what Josh thinks about a particular product. It just wants to know where it needs to travel to get the most value in return. Speaker 3: 19:52 Yeah, you've got to reverse engineer kind of your goals a little bit. So, you know, if you're looking for a lifestyle business that's more about, you know, um, larger cash injections and you don't want staff and employees and all that stuff, then you know, you want to limit your scope as much as possible. Otherwise you're never going to be able to fulfill it. Fill it. I'll always be you Lou. Then that made that kind of never ending treadmill. You know, Josh and I have grown and act like, I mean, we've got almost 20 full time employees now. I mean, we first started, we didn't have plans to have any employees. It's just us, you know, so it's kind of funny like, wow, we have a big team. Uh, but that's because you know, that we defined our scope and we also said, all right, let's think more like business owners and less like just a funnel guy, right? Speaker 3: 20:39 For a time. And let's actually build out a staff that can fulfill the scope, you know, at scale and all that stuff's important because you don't always think out ahead. You always think maybe you're just going to deliver it, you're going to deliver it, but eventually you're just going to reach your, your your limit and your ceiling, you know, and until you're willing to scale out and acquire non funnel building skills, more just business growth skills, sales skills, marketing, hiring, all that stuff. Sometimes that's the key to taking your funnel to the next level. Ironically, it's not as much about opt in rates and conversion rates as it is stuff like people, you know? No, I totally agree. Yeah. Speaker 4: 21:15 I think especially when you're trying to scale that people often becomes really huge for you guys. Tell me, when you start taking a look, I love some of the main things you guys have hit on. The fact is you really have to start thinking more as a business owner and said, I've just been, we'd run an agency or I'm to try this. Internet marketing game is you. First of all, I started thinking as business owners, super amazing things happen because now all of a sudden you start paying attention to the metrics. You start knowing your numbers. When you start again, you were kind of like 15 to 15 to $45 a for customer lead or, or booking. How many, what's your typical, how many causes your bookings do you need before you actually close one? What's, what are some of the numbers you guys have currently? Speaker 3: 21:55 Yeah, good question. I mean, I think we'll see anywhere from, some of it's fluctuated based on our sales staff, right? So now, I mean we have a full sales staff taking calls all day long, all over the country. So you know, on a typical sales day right now we'll see anywhere from four to eight transactions come through in a, in a day on, you know, 40 to 60 calls. Some of that can fluctuate with the market too, depending on, you know, what's, cause our, our business has some seasonality to it. Um, but Speaker 4: 22:25 you've got, I mean, you've got a 10% close rate then. Yeah. And that's, that's like, um, really an interesting question and I actually had to pause and Sam hit on it, but it's there, it's, there, there becomes, when you start to scale, at least it becomes these pressure valves that you've got to control. It's like the, the lock in the dam and the water, like releasing a very precise amount of water. So we actually, um, we actually burn a lot of leads. Like some of our leads are just like the, those of bananas that you don't get to eat on the counter bruising and nodding and, and like, I actually told someone this today, like someone gave him bad advice. I was talking to a young marketer and training and they were like, yeah, somebody told me I don't need to go, uh, generate so many leads yet because I'm not, I'm going to get overwhelmed with the work. Speaker 4: 23:18 And I was like, dude, that's why you're stuck. You need the rotting bananas on the counter or you're not going to have enough food to eat. And, and, and that was a big part of what we do. And so now it's actually really kind of scientific, like we know how many leads generally in a seven day period that each of our sales team members need in order to hit their quota. And that's been a fun process that we've, that we've taken on. But yeah, we'll, we'll scale and ebb and flow based on availability of our, our sales team because they become our conversion apparatus. Right. Oh sure. So when did you guys start bringing on sales guys? Because at first it was just the two of you guys taking the sales calls? I, as I recall. Oh yeah, a lot of sales calls. I think it was the moment when, uh, this is a great question because a lot of people are going to try to either delegate too early or not delegate ever. And if there's a moment when it's working so well, and you've got, you know, a repeatable unit, like we've got a repeatable funnel and it's predictable and, and you're saying things like, Hey, do you want to take the next sales call? Speaker 4: 24:35 That's when, you know, I probably should, you know, get off, get the script out of my brain, put it on a, on a Google doc, hire someone, put them on a good commission rate and let's let them, you know, when for us and let's get them up to 80% efficiency as fast as possible and binge that out while your business partner or somebody else or while you still are, um, are, are crushing deals until you get that person up to speed and then you do it. And don't hire too many salespeople at the same time. That's another thing that's a mistake we've made because what happens is you start to segment your lead flow into weakness and none of the salespeople can get enough problem based learning under their belt fast enough. And then all of your conversion rates go down, your revenue goes down and you're just like, what? We hired five new salespeople. They should be five x thing, our sales. But it actually has the exact opposite of thing because the salespeople need, they need time and you need time with your script to get vested and grafted into the system. Uh, such great advice. I would. So tell me, when you're looking at your sales guys, how do you typically pay as far as commission? And you would, do you have a salary plus commission? You paid just commission. How much commission do you guys pay Sam? Speaker 3: 25:54 Yeah, great question. Uh, so for most of our sales staff, that's a hundred percent commission. Uh, and our commission rates actually kind of going back to your metrics and your economics depend on what they're selling. So with high ticket offers, you wish in our niche, our price point is more high ticket. You know, they get a larger cup can be anywhere from, you know, 12 to 18% per enrollment. But when you're selling a recurring service and agency model, your margins are less because typically the monthly value is less, even though the total contract value might be the same, you're not getting all that value up front. Right. So your compensation model is a little bit different. So for some of our sales staff, they're really in the portfolio building game and we have salespeople that have 75 accounts. They get paid on every month. It's crazy. It's awesome, you know? Yeah, that's what I mean. It's one of the reasons we started our company. And so we can provide opportunity to like that. So they're stacking right accounts, a recurring accounts and then others are really going after that. You know, that big sale. They want to get that big commission right there. And then, so you've got to really drive your commissionable component based on your end game, you know, otherwise you're just kind of shooting in the dark. Speaker 2: 27:07 Yeah. And I would say that a commission rates can increase or decrease Speaker 4: 27:12 based on, uh, whether or not your sales staff has to generate a quota of leads. So our sales staff typically doesn't, they are, they wake up every morning and their books and they just get to pick up the phone and not worry about where that person came from in the funnel. They just, they have an application in front of them and they magically appeared on the calendar. But if you have a sales team to ask to prospect and it has to work, you know, shake trees, then they usually they usually deserve and earn or warrants a little bit more of a Speaker 3: 27:45 what piece of the Pie. Speaker 2: 27:47 So is your sale, is it a onetime clothes or is it a setter and a closer type of thing? Speaker 3: 27:52 One time. One time close. Yeah, about 90% of all of our sales are on the very first call. Which separate give Dave the followup close percentage and how interesting that is. Yeah, we'll follow up. Close percentage is going to be aware from five to 8% some months it's even less. But some of that goes back to your Avatar, right? Like if you're selling to a business owner, you've probably got more contracting, more followup, more questions. If you sell to a consumer, like, and I'd say that's one of our things in roads, like we, we've found that you really need to figure out who is your Avatar, what is their pain, what do they need? Where they want, what's their life like? What's their industry like? And we've found that in our industry, we tend to sell more to consumers than we do to business owners. Don't get me wrong, we talked to, you know, different clients that have big teams in big businesses, but the lion share of the industry is to solo point person, right? So it's more like selling to a consumer. Uh, and so that influences the way that we sell to them because they don't think in terms of like budgets and metrics and business capital like we do, right? Which is fine. They just think a little bit differently. So then we position our sale as you're going to do it, let's do it, you know? Uh, and so our entire funnel shaped around that sales call, that strategy call. So that, and that's what makes it work. Speaker 2: 29:13 Yes ma'am. I love that. I think that's the biggest mistake so many agencies struggle with when they first get going is if you're going to sell it to the Solo Preneur, you are really selling more B to c, then you are B to B. And it's totally changes the funnel. It changes the scripts, it changes everything. And I think a, I see a lot of agencies get fresher when they try to go on after this, you know, this large B2b type of business model and you're like, wait a second, I've got a gatekeeper. And then I've got three people on the board want to make a decision and they try elephant hunting near instead of just going after these. There's so many other people out there who have a ton of pain who are in the Solo Preneur, you know, six figures to seven figures were you have good businesses, but they're out there. Speaker 2: 29:52 They have to, again, Josh, thank you made mention of it. Really these, these are the people who have to go out and kill something every single day so they can feed their own families. And I think that's such an easier and better business model, especially as an agency on when you're going after it to really close down that sales cycle. Because otherwise as an agency again, all of a sudden you've got this followup sequences and cheese. I'm in this thing three months and all of a sudden you find yourself like a pharmaceutical salesperson trying to close large x ray machine or cats can't. Yes, that's right. Speaker 3: 30:23 Yeah. And that keeps the, keeps everything you know streamline with your sales and your funnel. Like when we say ours is simple, we mean that people go from Facebook ads to client in 24 to 48 hours. Speaker 2: 30:35 Yes. That's it. So fast, Sam. That is so fast. Speaker 3: 30:39 There's no like elaborate followup sequences and webinars and email lists that lead the email list that lead to email lists. I mean all that stuff's fine. I'm just saying that for us. Simple southerners. Speaker 4: 30:51 Yeah. Well, hey Dave, we got to keep it country simple man. And for all the funnel hackers listening to this, like kind of a big conceptual level, like keep your sales cycles short because you need that cash. If you're not taking VC capital from somewhere, like this whole click funnels motto is real. Like if you're going to do that, you got to make sure don't let the prospects and the leads linger. Go give him a call to action. Give them that deadline, give them that takeaway. Whatever you need to do. I'm not saying obviously sell them snake oil. I'm just saying make sure they know that they need that. The best thing they can do is purchase your product or service in order for them to reach their goals. Don't tell them that later. Tell them that now and make sure they take you up on it. Well, that's awesome. Well guys, I Speaker 2: 31:45 thank you so much for all the value provided to our audience. Thank you. How, how do people get more of you guys? Speaker 4: 31:51 I think the best way, um, if you're listening to this and you just won't kind of like a, uh, a free walk through of our business model and kind of get in our brains a little bit more about what we do and what we do at Moneyline workshop, we can go to Moneyline workshop.com/free. Everybody loves free and opt in there. We'll walk you through a short video training and kind of show you the skeletal structure of what we've done with a few of our businesses and how we can help you from that point. And if you want to book a phone call with this and maybe join us for our workshop, we will more than welcome you on a on a call and see if it's a good tip for you. Absolutely. Speaker 2: 32:29 Again guys, I think it's awesome. I appreciate your, you're providing that value to people. So check out Moneyline workshop.com forward slash free again, if nothing else, kind of go through and funnel hack of what they're doing. I think your business model guys is awesome. Two Comma Club award winners crushing it and doing it in multiple industries, which to me is, it's one thing to do it in one and then you can take that, that same skill set and and just start layering industry after industry like you guys have done and it's really, it's great for me to see. So I appreciate, appreciate your example, appreciate what you guys are doing and thanks so much for all the value you provide. Thank you. Thanks for the ecosystem you guys have set up as well. Yeah, that sounds great. Well, we look forward to seeing you a funnel hacking live and those guys were listening. She probably after funnel hacking live, but if not, please check a tick. Take a firstname.lastname@example.org forward slash free. Thanks guys. See you Dave. Speaker 5: 33:20 Hey Ron, thank you so much for taking the time to listen. I can tell you the things I love more than anything else aside from listening to podcasts is reading books. One of my favorite books was the very first book that Russel wrote. It's called DOTCOM secrets. It's the underground playbook for growing your company online. So if you've already got a business or an idea and you've got something you want to get going right away, go ahead, check it out. We literally give you the book for free. You just pay the seven 95 shipping and handling. Just go to Dotcom secrets.com and we'll go ahead. We'll ship you out the book. You just pay seven, nine five shipping and handling, and the book will be on its way to you. Thanks again so much for listening and remember, you're just one funnel away. Speaker 2: 33:58 Yeah.