24 Burst results for "Sir Thomas"
"sir thomas" Discussed on NewsRadio KFBK
"August 25th 1930 Sir Thomas Sean Connery, better known by his middle name is born in Edinburgh, Scotland. In addition to being the silver screen's original James Bond, he appeared in over 60 films before his 2012 retirement Obvious 27th 1964, based on the book series of the same name and starring Julie Andrews and Dick Van Dyke Family. Classic Mary Poppins is released a critical and box office smash unless successful sequel was released in 2018, August, 28th 1986 singer songwriter and actress Tina Turner receives a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame. She sold over 100 million Records, 1 12 Grammys and acted in a handful of films, most notably 1985 Mad Max. Beyond Thunderdome, August 29th 1923, English actor and director, Sir Richard Atten borough is born. In Cambridge, United Kingdom. During his six decade career. He appeared in over 60 films, including Jurassic Park and Won Best director Oscar for 1980 to Gandhi. August 30th 2013 12 years a slave has its world premiere at the Telluride Film Festival. It's a critical and commercial hit, winning Oscars for best picture, adapted screenplay and supporting actress for Lupita and Young. Go on. That's the weak in Hollywood history on my Heart radio. First lady Melania Trump Headlines the Republican National Convention Tonight she'll speak from the newly renovated Rose Garden at the White House. The convention's first night featured numerous biting comments about Democrats. Here's Donald Trump Jr. The other party is attacking the very principles on which our nation was founded. Freedom of thought. Freedom of speech, freedom of religion. The rule of law. South Carolina Republican Senator Tim Scott. Do we want a society that breeds success or a culture that cancels everything even slightly? Disagrees with former U. S. U. N Ambassador Nikki Haley. Their vision for America is socialism. And we know that socialism has failed everywhere. They want to tell Americans had a live more to think. Hayley is a former governor of South Carolina Road to the White House. I'm Terri more NBC news radio. Local news, breaking news, traffic weather and going deeper depth and perspective. 93.1 I don't know. Just call me You know the stick in the mud, white guy, But I I think societal changes take generations. It takes generations to get into trouble. Take generations to get out. But what Chris Webber said about his mother was a teacher and he was focusing on education is the key. To get equality. I think he's right. And like I said Ben Carson also grew up in Detroit, just like Chris Webber. Both Detroit guys. With a mother that cared about him. Haired Kushner was asked about the athletes pro testing, I think and this, this is what he had to say. I think that the MBA players are very fortunate that they have the financial position where they're able to take a night off from work without having to have the.
Big tech CEOs testify before Congress
"So, this hearing just going to say it, it was six hours of chaos. So. So many things like individual moments of pure chaos happened this hearing. But because every member of Congress was only given five minutes to ask the questions in and they moved on, no one could process the moments of cash. So here are some things that happened during this hearing. Jeff. bezos just started eating nuts on his call. That was just a thing that you started snacking for the first ninety minutes. It appears that basis had tech issues was operating in some kind of delay. So we didn't hear from him. They just answer any questions and they'd take a ten minute break Jeff. bezos could fix his computer. Amazing. Jim Jordan, who McKenna pointed out. On the show last week is always sort of chaos element. Try to talk over several members of Congress got yelled to put his mass back on floated. Just elaborate conspiracy theories. was when I say was chaos I. Don't know if there's any other way to describe it. I. Think that led a lot of people to think the hearing itself didn't accomplish its goals, but I think in many ways it did. But Kennedy you WanNa Kinda go through what the committee was trying to accomplish the themes they were pointed at in. How hearing played out, right. So okay. First off. Harkening back to last week I mentioned Jim. Jordan's mountain dew obsession. Definitely drink a handful those throughout the hearing I took notes in screen shots. So, I, called it. But regardless of their pores soda choices, there were a lot of lawmakers who definitely did their homework and I think that was really apparent throughout the entire hearing and when I look at. The picture that they tried to paint I think that became really clear in chairman Sicily's opening statements. So this is the guy who liked. And spearheaded the entire investigation from the beginning, and in those opening statements, he pointed out that yeah Apple Amazon Google facebook. There are different in a lot of ways and they exhibit anticompetitive behaviors potentially allegedly and a lot of different ways. But what they tried to pull together and was a story, and it's really hard to tell a story and five minute fragments. But what happened yesterday was Sicily. Ni, and a lot of the Democrats on the Committee wanted to point out that these companies they become bottlenecks for distribution whether that's information or just like APP stores marketplace's they control what gets distributed in how what was really key to the investigation was how? How they survey competitors. If you have so much control dominance over a market or a specific part of the tech industry, you have a lot of insight into your competitors and you can do a lot of dangerous things with that, and then lastly, after that dominance has gained, it's how they abuse it. Right? How they abuse it to make harder for small businesses in competitors and I think that's exactly what Cellini pointed out in the beginning and I think they did a poor job that storytelling throughout the process. But I think that's also our job. Right is to pull that evidence together and tell that story for them in a way that isn't like. Yes, no yelling at CEOS and like stopping them and I think by getting that in the evidentiary record doing all this questioning, I think they really did achieve their goal in the end. Yeah. I mean, I think the thing that happened sort of next to the hearing was that they released a bunch of documents from these one point, three, million documents of clutch. Over the past year, they released pretty targeted selection documents for every company showing some of this stuff, Casey, I wrote a story about. facebook. INSTAGRAM. My I'm going to frame this email or mark Zuckerberg. Literally one sentence, no period. The Andrew says I need to figure out. I'M GONNA buy instagram like I would love to just be in a place were sending that email like super casually like I got this thing to figure out and it's not like am I gonNa buy the model of the car. It's like instagram. I've been thinking of the text messages where so and so says that Mark Zuckerberg's didn't go destroy mode on instagram ever since they got that up. Case she this to Kevin and right that text was. Yes. Well, it was Kevin. System was talking to an investor and Kevin said to the investor. If we don't sell well, mark, go into destroy mode on us and the investor side probably. Of course, stray casual. So there's just a lot of documents and I think one of the functions of hearing was to get those documents into the official congressional record to make the CEO's account for them. That did not seem very successful to me. Is like a takeaway people should have from this hearing, right? No. I think a lot of people that go into these hearings are expecting like these big Gotcha moments and expecting like a lot of news and all this stuff. But it really, it wasn't oversight hearing. You know it wasn't. They didn't come. They came at this like in a report last earlier this week that they came out at as investigators. They didn't come at it to make a big show horse and pony show out of it, and yet I think the CEO's didn't. The record well enough to the extent that they could have. But there was definitely, I was expecting them to do a lot less evasion and I expected a lot less room probation with the documents, but it's just the process of a Congressional hearing. It's. It's hard to do that in a congressional hearing. But if you put those documents out there, you get the CEO's on the record a little bit who does excite this excites the FTC. J, and that's who can take this next and then it's also congress. You know they can't break up a tech company, but they can regulate going forward and it's those three key themes that I pointed out earlier that they could regulate. You know what I mean. They could legislate to forbid companies from surveying competitors and things like that, and that's where this goes. So the format of the hearing, every member and five minute chunks, it seemed very clear that the Democrats had some sort of coordinated evidentiary strategy, they would start and. And they would say, I, want to read this email to you. What did you mean by this email and then Jeff bezos would say something like I have. No idea is on works. I. Was real pattern that developed was basis really not doing or claiming he definitely knows claiming not really no way Wayne is under the thing they did or they would ask sooner Pichai about the very granular add deal google made by an ad product, and soon I, would say I'll get back to you, which is basically all responses. So the Democrats seemed like they were coordinated to move through their documents. The Republicans seem to be doing something else that also seem coordinated intentional, but what was their focus because that seemed clear split my takeaway from Jim Jordan who? We got into earlier, he he was interviewing. As if they were all Jack Dorsey. And as we talked about like, yeah, he invited Jack Dorsey to testify, but he doesn't sit on the antidote subcommittees. Anything. He says, it just doesn't matter. So it sounded to me as if he prepared questions Jack Dorsey and then it was like, oh, he's not coming I'll ask Tim Cook the same questions. Another completely crazy moment that happened just seen by and five minute chunks is that. Represented Sensenbrenner from Wisconsin Dear Sweet Wisconsin. Definitely. Asked Mark Zuckerberg why the Donald Junior was banned from twitter and mark. Zuckerberg was happening on twitter facebook and there was just like a moment of confused silence, and then he tried to move on and that just sort of floated by in the river of chaos to tell you how much chaos there was kneeling. When you started to tell that story, I thought you were going to tell the story about when Jim Jordan asked him cook if the famous one, thousand, nine, hundred, four, Apple Super Bowl, AD was actually about twenty twenty cancel culture, which is another thing that really happened. I think that's out of context. He didn't ask him. He said clearly, this is. That's definitely what Steve Jobs was thinking IBM is canceled culture and Apple's going to break it with hammer and Jeff. Bezos said that social media is a nuance destruction machine and all this crazy stuff from that. It was a wild will that that particular question when Jim Jordan asked, do you support the cancel culture mov, you could see the CEOS like. 'cause they went in order. He asks them all in order. So First Tim Cook just like basically muttered nothing. Here's like I don't. I support speech whatever. The iphone a keyboard like that was his answer. Sooner per child also, just like muttered, right? He's like Google has always supported free expression Zuckerberg like saw the opportunity and took it and the forces of liberalism I rising I, and then basis was like I cannot. I cannot do in like went for it, and that was just totally insane moment. But it also seems like the Republicans were intentional to try to create their own moments where they were yelling at CEOS about bias on platforms is obviously something cover a. At. You were paying a lot of attention that case you're paying a lot of attention to it. Do you think that was effective in creating because you know there's like a parallel conservative Universe Jim? Jordan was on Tucker. Carlson. Last night like was that effective or d think that the CEO's were able to sort of tamp down on interesting the Tucker Carlson pointed out that Google and other companies are all big donors to Jim Jordan another folks. So that is a weird side, but I think it was actually besides the moment where they mixed up twitter with facebook I. Think this was much more effective off. Off Topic yelling about technology than we usually see like are genuinely issues that like they are upset about that, they could point to largely around like cove nineteen misinformation and they could at least like pick those topics and stick to them rather than kind of asking vague questions about like, why is my phone listening to me? Well, they're definitely asked questions about why are my campaign emails getting filtered by G mail? Yes. I should. I should mention that they have really and they have all of these cases where they ask about extremely specific one off incidents that anyone who has used social media knows happens constantly. And, then turn them into a sinister pattern. But I think they managed to come off as sounding more like they understood what they were talking about the unusual. I think that was a real theme of the hearing, Casey. What did you think of this sort of bias side show that occurred? Well, I mean the the idea that conservative voices are being suppressed is foundational to the conservative movement and is behind the rise of conservative talk radio. It was behind the rise of Fox News. Now that social media exists, we have seen it in this new form, but it is sort of being presented as extra, sinister and worthy of. Some sort of legislative intervention what frustrates me about it is that much more than newspapers or or cable news like Mark Zuckerberg Dorsey. These people benefit hugely from having all possible voices on their platform. None of them is incentivized to drive conservatives off their platform. What they are incentivized to do is have rules that make the place safe and welcoming. So that people want to hang out there and so to the extent that there are issues on the platform, they've largely come because these platforms have rules. And you know you would think that a bunch of free marketeers would realize that the alternative to the system that they're so mad about would be creating a new system, but they don't seem at all interested in doing that. So I just sort of dismissed all of them as charlatans I actually thought it was interesting that the opposite track came up, which was the Stop Hey for profit campaign I kind of wasn't expecting that. The representative Raskin I believe asked facebook. Basically, why aren't you kicking more hate speech off. I forget who else asked like look is the point that you're so big. You don't care about advertiser boycotts I. Mean, you know it will here. Here is a fact that the number one complaint that facebook gets from its users, the thing that users. About. FACEBOOK is that it removes too much content and so if you're running the place, you do have to take these complaints seriously in a way. Right? It might not be you know that you shadow band conservative whatever that even means on social network in twenty twenty. But the fact that you're removing content is really upsetting people. So you can't dismiss that idea entirely, but I still don't feel like we're having that intellectually honest conversation about it. So this was definitely I feel like you can connect the you control distribution. We're GONNA show the abuses of power narrative. We got other. Democrats. With the you control distribution. You're banning conservatives right like I. Think what's Sensenbrenner Again, cups and conservatives are consumers to is that people don't realize that like fifty percent of the population in many ways. But facebook has like famous conservatives working its highest levels Kevin. We last week, we're talking about Kevin Roose keeps sharing the list. List of the most engaged content from crowd tangle. It's all conservative content, and that's so problematic for facebook that they're. They're pushing back with other metrics and graphs of their own, making the facts just aren't there, but it doesn't seem to be convincing. Brett Kevin is being asked to recuse himself from facebook case because he's like best friends with facebook I, AP I wrote a column almost two years ago. Now, arguing that conservatives were trying to redefine. Any conservative identified person having any unwanted outcome on a social network, right? So bias is your name was higher than mine in search results. Bias is used suggested that I follow a Democrat and not a Republican right, and if you take action on your policies that apply to everyone against me a conservative that is biased against conservatives, right. So and by the way I have to say this has been hugely successful because we've talked about it. How many minutes now and the longer that these discussions. Discussions. Go on. They just sort of refi people's minds. The idea that there really is a vast conspiracy to silence conservative speech because he's networks are so big millions of conservatives are having experiences like this every day, and now there is an ideology that is basically a religion for them to attach to, which is although Silicon Valley liberals are out to get. Reason I wanted to talk about the conservative side show, which in many ways was a circus is it feels like the notion that we should be punitive to the companies or mad at the company's. Bipartisan, right we were. We were not looking at a hearing where the Democrats were on the attack. Republicans are saying we love. Apple. We're looking at hearing where they were. Everyone was mad. There are a couple of exceptions to that. There were a couple of I think sensenbrenner and a few other folks were like look we want to be clear. Big is not bad. We just WANNA make sure we're not punishing you for your success, but you were like almost entirely, right? Yeah. I. Mean I. think that's it's important to. To capture that mood like Jeff Bezos Mark Zuckerberg, Tim, Cook soon. Darpa, try they usually get to finish whatever sentence they start saying. Right. They're not used to being interrupted. Their thoughts are usually like you know they get to live in complete sentences and people take them seriously here in five in intervals, they were interrupted almost every time they started speaking to be told that they were wrong that they were filibuster at one point Sicily said stop thinking is for the questions. We can just assume they're all good questions. They. Were getting yelled at and they're going yell that about a variety of things that were pretty specific. So you kind of in your kind of structure here. The first one was controlling distribution. What did you hear as a hearing went on the indicated to that? The committee had a case here? I think the apple's APP store is one thing you know charging thirty percent cuts on certain things is just controlling an APP store. It's the same thing with Amazon's marketplace. They can inherently in control what gets placed and what gets sold and you know if they want to play with search results on Amazon, they can do that, and then on facebook and Google, it's not just like products and software that's information. And it could be information when it's like Google. Google. Stealing yelps, texture views right in putting those in its little info boxes in search queries in facebook if facebook is just like an. Mation, distribution platform and. It can decide Algorithm Mickley. Knowingly. What people get to see this bution was very keen to the committee's hearing yesterday and they pointed out different aspects in which you know each company exhibited that kind of behavior. So the one that will you bring up apple? We wrote about this, say there's much emails. Apples document production is just one hundred and thirty pages of unrelated emails and whatever order see it's like scan through it. So there's a lot of little stories in there. There's one about right to repair and apple realizing it needed to repair. By watching PR people operate by reading their emails journalists. Very entertaining. They're like we had a break like here's our strategy. Here's we're GONNA. That's all in there. You can look at it, but there's a lot about the APP store itself and how they're going to use the mechanics of the APP store to control their platform, and it started at the beginning like the first emails in this production from twenty, ten there. From Phil, Schiller Steve Jobs saying, are we GONNA? Let Amazon Sell Books in the kindle store. Store, it felt like I saw an Amazon ad was hard to watch this hard to watch this ad where a person's reading a book on an iphone in the kindle APP in the pick up an android phone keep reading. He's like literally like it was hard to watch like Schiller's at home like pain what a customer is having an experience that good it really just. Heart and so he's like it was hard to watch. You fours Steve Jobs. They're like we gotta shut it down jobs is the bookstore will be the only bookstore on the APP. Store. That's the way it's going to be everyone's gotta used to it. We know that restricting payments will hurt other things, but that's what we're doing and they started there in two thousand ten and they pulled it out, and then that ladders up into everything that we've seen with, hey, ladders up into the analysis group showing up to. Apple, can pay them to say that there's independent study has revealed. Everybody has a thirty percent cut. It has landed up into Tim Cook, forwarding. He gets a letters from developers that are in this direction. It's like apples breaking my heart and he just like Ford's it. Tim, Cook forwards that email to filter credit eighty, just as thoughts like amazing like they are constantly thinking about the APP store as a mechanism of control for the platform in the leverage and other deals. So the other one was apple is this Amazon one which I have very mixed feelings on saying that this is bad or legal I'm curious for all of your thoughts famously. Did, not have the prime video APP on the Apple TV and all these other places apple, Amazon came to a deal. There's an entire presentation in this production like the slide deck of how the deal is going to work. Apple got to be the preferred seller of its own product. So third parties cancel. Apple. Products, Amazon pages, they got. They have a custom by flow. They've custom product pages, all the stuff in return. Amazon got a lower commission on the APP store and gets to Selatan products which no. No like you can rent a movie from the Amazon APP on the Apple TV, no one else gets to it in one world. This is just pure platform collision, right? Apple cut VIP deal for big companies because it wanted something and you could say this is legal in another world. It's like this is how deals work apple something valuable. Amazon s something valuable and they came to a conclusion wherever made more money and quite frankly the consumer experience platform has got better. How do you read that? Casey? That is good and fair analysis of it. I. Think I did read slightly more scandalous. Tones into it in part because apple would never acknowledge that some developers are more important to it than others even though if you assume that that's true, I think maybe one of the things that's frustrating about it is there is no transparency accountability around which developers get sweetheart deals is that once you hit a certain threshold of revenue will cut your price. Why couldn't they extend that deal to everyone right? Or is it just if we withhold something that seems particularly valuable, we can eventually drag you to the table. Table, which is sort of what seems like happened here. I think in all cases, what I'm always looking for is the accountability, right like and some sense of of equitable treatment of developers and I understand the guys are always going to get the best treatment, but it can that be publicly visible. Can it be acknowledged and there'd be routes for others to achieve that same level of success and treatment, and that I'll just seems missing here. Did you buy Tim Co? He said it twice. It was obviously A. Glimmer, of sympathy for all four CEOS. There is a lot of reporting that they had spent months preparing for this hearing like being grilled there, they'd hire outside law firms. They. Practiced they all clearly had soundbites memorized in none of them. Got To say him because it kept getting interrupted. Tim Cook had this one where he is like if we're the gatekeepers, the gates are open wider than ever. We've gone from five hundred. APPS to one point seven, he said like. A whole speech. and. The thing is there's fierce competition for developers. They don't like our store can do for android the windows. For xbox and PS. Four. Which I was like the idea that adobe is going to be like we don't want to be on the IPAD. Here's PS. Four Photoshop is insanity to me. I'm going to build a spreadsheet. APP. For the five. That's how frustrated with Tim Cook. To that ring. True to you I. Mean, there's no, it does not ring true. There is a, there is a duopoly. In the United States when it comes to smartphones, iphones have majority share in the United States and you can't say, well, you know there's there's a rogue fork of android in Malaysia that you could go develop for if you really wanted to and have that come across as a credible argument to Americans. Right it is. Natural for any monopolist to spend most of its time, arguing that it is much smaller and much less consequential as as you think it is and they're essentially always asking you to ignore what is in front of your face, which is that they are the giant. They are in control. What they say goes, and it doesn't matter which small businesses get hurt along the. The. Way I would point out that the contact and we're gonNA talk about earnings eventually. But the context for that is apple had its biggest third quarter ever this month, their revenues went up eleven percent year over year, they're making obviously making billions of dollars in their services revenue, which is a lot of the narrative around the APP stores increasing that services line. Also went up. I think it was thirteen billion. So you're right. They're very big in their earnings the day after the hearing did nothing. To reduce that impression. I want to switch to Amazon a little bit McKenna. You really focused Amazon was basis first time up there. They came at him a lot about marketplace. How did you think that went I think it went pretty good. I. Think. John Paul specifically was just like killer her questions with breakout star. Yeah. She was just like killer and she's the representative for. SEATTLE. So this is where Amazon is right. So she just like killed it and. And I think there were a couple of instances in the documents and in questioning yesterday that really pulled important things out there was like testimony from one bookseller who was like, yeah. We just can't sell a category of books and we don't know why Amazon doesn't let us do that just like testimony like that or even when it comes to like acquisitions, the ring acquisition especially, I wrote about that today through the documents and how. They said, this is for market position. This is a for technology, your talent or anything. We just bought this and that's something that base said again, yesterday he was just very clear. It's like, yeah, we do buy things market position, which is like so insane just here like the richest person in the world. But like, yeah, we're buying market position. It's just what happens. That's another one I have mixed feelings right, and by the way, people should read McKenna story because those documents have just a very funny breakdown like the pros and cons of buying. Buying ring in many of the cons like what if this turns into nest, which if you're just the verge cast listeners like it's just like the Keyword Bingo, but it's fine to say, we're buying market position like this isn't the best product out there, but it's the category of video. doorbells is not huge, right? So to by the the market leader in video doorbells is maybe the most rational use of the money. What is the problem that you think the committee was trying to show an address sense of we're just going to market position. Pointing out, they can just do whatever they want and how casual it is, and there really isn't. It's really funny to read an email like that, and we could buy it or we could just copy it or are. We could just watch. You know that was one of the emails that base from someone. Those are just three options you know and it's like just pick and choose you know. Pointed out like a lot. Just that email itself really pointed out just how easy it is for them. They used a lot of that time history to talk about copycat behaviors and to talk about just like you know buying up competitors and it just seeing that all in one little e mail having to do with the ring was like really i. think it was really kind of I opening and especially like useful for the committee. So Amazon got hit a lot for the data collection side of it of copying competitors. bezos did not seem to have great answers there. Right. So that's the. The thing they got in trouble with this. There is that Wall Street. Journal article from like April where employees were literally like, yeah. We dip into data and we use that to guide our own private label products and everybody was like Whoa and Amazon basins. Yesterday said, well, we do have a policy that bans that but giant pointed out yesterday. It's like, okay. So what's your enforcement look like you can have the policy, but like if you don't enforce it, then it's like meaningless. And then yesterday I. Think Paul was like, can you give me a yes or no answer? Do you dip into data and he's like I can't I can't give you. Yes or no, and we're just like we're looking into it. The story had anonymous sources. So that isn't very helpful to us. You know what I mean. So that was one of the main things and that Wall Street Journal article and I think it's the same kind of examples in the committee's documents. They point out specific examples like car trunk, organizers of all things. It's like weird little products like Amazon's like this is a little hot. Maybe we should do that. So I, I think. I, think they made a good case yesterday. Yesterday on that. Yeah. I mean bezos brought up that Wall Street Journal, Article himself twice, and he was like, well, your policy against it. But I can't guarantee never happened. Then there is a strange just didn't come across clear I. Think I know what the committee was trying to get at their like US aggregate seller data when there's only three sellers and then only to sellers? Yes, I. Think what they're getting at is when you're down to the aggregate data of two companies, you heard effectively looking at individual data. What is the problem? They're like the I get what you're doing. You're just reducing the denominator to get to one, but like it, why is that particular problem? Right? Well, none of these. Dipping into individual seller data and looking at aggregate data. That's not a legal. There is no law. This is all voluntary of Amazon. So they have a voluntary policy where like we can't do individual seller data, but they say nothing against aggregate and aggregate what you're getting at eight. Here you is. Does the same thing if it's just like some goofy little product they. They bring up pop stock. It's all the time before pop tops in a moment. Right? There's only like one pop. So company like you know pop soggy, it was kind of an innovative product. It's like well, if there's only two of them and use the aggregate data, you you you have everything you need to know you know about that product line looking aggregate. If that's what you decide to qualify as do you as you're looking through the other Amazon documents and other stuff. So anything jump out at you is something the committee was trying to prove or get at. The questioning seemed very focused on. Like are you using the state at a copy products? Are you buying things? You shouldn't buy. There's one question which I did not understand why came up about DMC. Take downs on twitch and Jeff as just had this look of panic in his eyes. He's like I don't know man I bought Wedge because my kids want to. Do something like that was like the side show stuff, but the real focus here, it just seemed like it was definitely in the marketplace, right? Amazon, everyone came at Amazon for the marketplace. That's what everybody knows him as like they have all these little sides. They got rain. They got Alexa Alexa was one thing too. That was kind of interesting. It's like. Are you buying things like ring to put Alexa into and dislike expand your like Titan Ism as like an Internet Internet connected home. Thing and make that more closed off and walled gardening. That was one thing. But no, it was just focusing on how much power they have to kind of change. What happens in the marketplace to kind of decide what companies in what products are able to come up on the first page of results. You know that's also something that they dug into Google and in something that one of those like themes that kind of ties everything together. We should say they all spend a lot of time talking about counterfeit goods, and why is it Amazon removed? Fake stuff from the platform and how much is it profiting off of you know selling pick rolexes? Is it surprising? The whole foods didn't show up at all they're. Like that is a really massive thing. Amazon owns that. Is it moving into a huge new product category? I think whole foods is not an online marketplace, which was the title of the hearing, not that that restricted anybody from doing anything except that, one of the things Amazon says is we have lots of competition from offline marketplaces, right? Brought up kroger a lot I mean, this is the case he's point. They all made. It seem like they were beset at any moment. They could be crushed by the likes of stop and Shop Right? Like I think the point though was really on the. Digital. Experience Consumers have and like I, don't know Ho-. Foods fits. Into that narrative, especially, because it is itself not dominant like they bought it because you needed to grow in their. Good at that at my question for you on the Amazon stuff was when you think about, we talk about two thirty a lot right like you and I in particular spent a lot time to thirty, which regulates with the platform can do with content. There's not really an equivalent of two thirty for goods on store. Right like there's some case is out there saying like you're liable for what what happens on your online store page, but Amazon doesn't have that like second order of like Messi nece around it that twitter and facebook to with two thirty, I. Mean, it gets invoked a lot for marketplace's, but it's way messier. Well, I just wanted to like this question at counterfeits question about ranking the store like they are even more free than any twitter is to to sort tweets algorithm. Algorithm clear to modern like it just their store. Do you think that they're like that Algorithm transparency? Your wire things ranked. Did you catch a sense that that's where the regulation is GonNa go. So much of the conversation around Amazon really felt like it was individuals sellers being wronged for reasons of Amazon being unresponsive or stealing. It's data. So I don't know it didn't. It didn't seem like a really big focus of the hearing, but it is a huge deal. Yeah. The, digital marketplace frame of this, which is where we have talked to. Cellini. That's where he's going right like facebook and Google very digital. They have like they don't do physical goods. Really. Apple is the APP store. It's all digital goods. Amazon is the one where it's. Front to a lot of physical things, and that is the only place where I can see this regulation needing to make some sort of like major meaningful distinction in I. Didn't see it in the hearing, but I was curious of you caught a glimmer of it. I'm not positive that they have to make a huge distinction there like depending on what they come up with because. So much of this is about their companies and whatever product they produced. The issue is more or less whether or not they're being surveilled and unfairly by targeted and crushed by that data surveillance. All right. We have gone for forty minutes. We should take a quick break. I said I wasn't going to go by company and it happens. So we should come back and talk with facebook Ango. We'll be right back. This is advertiser content. When I say utopia what comes to mind. Birds Chirping lush natural beauty dialed up and vibrant technicolor. Is it within reach. Your world world. World. explained. You are an essential part of the perfect social body. Every Body Matt Place. Everybody happy now while the peacock original series, brave new world takes place in a scientific futuristic utopia. A concept is nothing new Sir Thomas more. I introduced the theory five hundred years ago. But we keep looking for that community identity stability of aldous Huxley's Utopia and not finding it Americans are the unhappiest they've been in decades, and we're increasingly lonely whereas in a utopia. Everyone belongs to everyone else. In nineteen forty-three, the psychologist Abraham. maslow's developed a theory of Utopia. One that allows total self determination in basic terms. maslow's theory says that in Utopia, we decide for ourselves, what we need and how we're GONNA get it in Huxley's Utopia citizens always get what they want and don't want what they can't get. Sounds. Pretty good. Right. Then why can't we make it happen? For a Utopian Society the work we might need to disband some of the things we hold dearest marriage government privacy individualism even family. See for yourself. If a Utopian world is as perfect as it seems watch brave new world now streaming only on peacock. These are really difficult crazy stressful times, and if you're trying to sort of cope, it could be helpful to find something that gets beyond like doom scrolling and like obsessive worried. But digs into what is really going on underneath the surface, and that's what the weeds is all about I. Matthew Yglesias. Weeds podcast here on the box meeting podcast network. This is podcast for people who really want to understand the policy debates and policy issues that shaping our world. We've seen now more than ever like how relevant policy is to our actual lives, but so much in the news isn't focused on really understanding and explaining detail way if that sounds good to you, join us for the weeds, every Tuesday and Friday to find out what's going on why matters and what we can do about it. You could download the weeds on apple spotify or wherever else you get your podcasts. Tracy. When it comes to facebook I turn to you. FACEBOOK is patience consumer of startups as what we've learned. Yeah. But you said something to me yesterday was interesting, which is everyone else's problems are forward looking and it feels like facebook's problems are actually in the past break for people explain what you mean. Yeah. So when Congress is looking at any trust with respect to these four companies for three of them, it's It's sort of about the marketplaces that their operating right now with facebook, the question is much more about should we have allowed it to buy serum? Should we have allowed it to buy WHATSAPP and most of the antitrust conversation that was around facebook yesterday was all about that. What did Mark Zuckerberg know about Instagram, and when did he know it? We wrote a story based on some documents that the house released yesterday. In which facebook has clearly identified instagram as a competitor. In at least some ways and wants to go after it and knock it off the table, and so that's kind of where the focuses their facebook and Burke did get a lot of other questions yesterday, but it tended to be much more about content moderation and things that don't have a lot to do with antitrust. So there was weird section where they asked the face. Face Research APP in the novel, Vpn? Any kind of got lost well, explain what happened and I'm curious reactions. Yeah. So facebook has a bunch of nifty tech tools to figure out what's trending which APPs or the kids using, and so that can essentially have an early warning system if it needs to consider acquiring something or more likely in these days, go out clone it. and. So Zuckerberg was asked about the way that the company uses these systems and if they are anti competitive I, think you know traditional antitrust law probably would not say copying an APP feature is anti competitive, but could lobby written in the future about it shirt I. Think the one that caught me was I mean, this is what I'm. McKenna's points from earlier is like one of the themes here is, are you so dominant that you can collect data that's unfair and then use that to crush or killer competitors, and definitely bought the Inaba VPN to do it. That's true. Now, when I've asked executives at facebook about this, what they'll say is they don't get surprised anymore. When you have three point, one billion people using your apps around the world. You know what links they're sharing, you know what they're talking about. And so you're not going to need some kind of specialized tool to know that WHATSAPP is really taking off. Right. So they would argue that, yes, these tools were useful to them, but you know at their scale, they know what's popular now, which doesn't really seem like addresses, the problem is reached. The fact that we're so big that we're all knowing is maybe not the defense that they sometimes presented as so here's what I didn't get. I thought, Zuckerberg I want to the instagram. What's about who's issues, but on the facebook research front, the data front, they him about this APP facebook research, which you were giving to teens. They were deploying with an enterprise certificate that story broke apple revoke the certificate, and all of facebook's internal APPs went dark, and this is a scandal story after story about it, they went on for two days. So I can I, don't recall that APP? Just how he you know, he remembers the day that all facebook's internal APPS went down and people couldn't go to the cafeteria. I would agree I found that answer. Extremely, ed? Persuasive. that. Do you think that was like actually strategic for him to be like, I, don't know and then come back later and correct the record I do remember when that happened I. Mean. I really don't know I mean also you know during a six hour hearing, it's also possible that you just you get flustered or you miss here something or or something because. Yeah. As as you say, I'm sure he remembers the day that apple turned off their internal APPS I mean. Honestly. Seems like an opportunity to talk about apple's market power, and the fact that you know a day of work canceled at facebook because apple got mad. But I think most of the CEO's didn't go into yesterday a wanted to pick fights with each other. It was kind of sad that they didn't. I was Kinda hoping that Tim Cook take a shot at soccer burger. Point that the other two APP platforms I was expecting it. It was there. It was. There was all there. So cellini ended and he ended the whole meeting with closing statement. He said, some of these companies didn't get broken out. They all need to get regulated in the off too much power that some of them I. don't these breaking up apple. What sort of break. Right like. The division get sent into the corner thing about what it's done. Right. Does should spin out the finder team I've always wanted to. A clean is always that they want to. They want the APP store to be separate from the IPHONE. Basically, that's the thing I always hear. Can't break I. Think you can write some strong regulations but not playing you're on store, right. But like Elizabeth Warren's point was it's cleaner if it's two companies, but it's still a gigantic remedy that I don't think there's a lot of like like consumer or public opinion is going to walk into an Apple Cup I think you'll radio at marketplace. It seems very clear that we says some of them she broken up he is talking about facebook. I have a twenty percent conference level. He might be talking with Google and Youtube as well. But if he's going to say some of the need to get broken up like it's facebook, did you hear anything yesterday that supported that conclusion or Saudi stocks I? MEAN HE I don't remember which Republican it was, but he was like the Obama FTC looked at this and they said it was minding love. Obama. Right. Like. Why would we go back in time to relook at I? Mean, there is a belief and I mean. Somebody who thinks there could be a lot of benefit in instagram and WHATSAPP being different companies from facebook. And the reason you ask. So many questions about that acquisition as you're making the case that it never should have been approved in the first place, and so now you need to remedy it. So that was actually like the entire thrust of the argument against facebook yesterday. I think, you could probably make just as good a case that Amazon after spin out aws, but lawmakers chose not to make that case. Yeah. I think that also gets into. Politics of the acquisition of the time. To his credit is like nobody knew instagram would actually be a success like we made it a success. It didn't happen by itself. I, don't know if the lawmakers. By award, these guys said, but I don't know that he actually made that case very persuasively. and. Who knows I mean? That's like anything could have happened. Right? Cram could've stayed independent and rapidly grown and overtaken facebook like that's something that could have happened. It could have kind settled into a middle zone like snapchat or twitter seems more likely to me although I think probably would have been bigger than those two but. You're never going to know I mean it is true that facebook gave Mike and Kevin it instagram enormous resources. A lot of the reasons why Mike and Kevin sold was because running tiny startup that's blowing up is absolutely exhausting Mike. Krieger. was dragging his laptop all around San. Francisco. Because the servers were melting at all times of the day whenever Justin Bieber. Posted like the site stopped working and they really we need help. Finding a person who can quickly fix this? So we don't have to like that is the reason that they were entertaining these offers and wanted to sell it. So that is also thing that happened. Do you think that that same kind of argument or approach can apply to what's up? What's up basically did not come up yesterday and all the focus on Instagram, but that's the other one, right? Yeah, and we know weirdly a lot less about that acquisition I. Think it's because people in America just have so much less love for what's APP generally. That, it's never seemed as important. What happened to WHATSAPP as what happens to instagram even though WHATSAPP, is used, you know way more, it probably has way more engagement even than instagram does so I don't know why that didn't come up as often. We know there was a competitive bidding war for that as well. Goule. Wanted it as well. You know Mark Zuckerberg made them an offer, they can't refuse. Do you think everyday Google's we should've spent more money on what's whatsapp like this could have been solved. Should have, but Google has been placed under an ancient curse that prevents them from ever making the right decision about any social product. So it was doomed never to happen. It's fun looking through the documents and watching them casually say they should buy facebook dot com. Yeah, that. Point. That is how they talk like the window into these executives just casually being like we should just this thing or maybe not, or we should just copied ourselves and kill it before it gets any traction like it's repeated over and over again last facebook question. This one is like harder to parse because I. There's a chance, it's October is just joking around but. But. He's in many of these emails. He's like the thing about startups, as you can always buy them, which I think the committee thinks is a smoking gun, right? Like facebook's entire plan is to buy the competition to get the data from wherever they get it to say, oh, man, this apps popping, we just buy it and kill it before it competes with us. I. Think he actually said at one point. That's a joke. Yes, he did and I believe that you know it was two thousand, twelve, right? He was probably still in his mid twenties. At that point, the company was a lot smaller like people were joking around like there's more loose talk when companies are younger and I do think. It was it was part of that. I think the more interesting question becomes. Let's say facebook is telling the truth about everything. Let's say they thought it was going to be a successful acquisition, but they never knew it was gonna big as it became today and they invested in it and it got super big. Okay. Well, now, it's as big as it is. Should they be allowed to keep? Keep it or should they be forced to spend it out and if you're GONNA force them to spin it out. What's the argument that you'RE GONNA. Make about why one question that I have a lot is clearly the referral they're gonNa make, and it seems like if you don't have some other reason, we've heard hints that there's some other reason, the FTC scrutinize this that will eventually be revealed. But what you're saying is the antitrust standard at the time, the Consumer Hartman stand, which is still our standard. Says, you have to prove prices will go up both products for free. You're screwed. Right? There's nothing to review because you're not gonNA prove prove that free products are gonNA get more expensive. I think it's pretty unfair if you change the standard and you go back in time and say you missed that standard. So I think there has to be something else there. Well, what was the standard by which at and T. was broken up? Right? Like presumably at and T. didn't used to be that big, and then it just got really big and then they broke it up at least. That's the thumbnail understanding I have of that break-up. Well, yeah. But then reformed itself. Right. But because of lax antitrust regulation, right? Like it wasn't a naturally occurring phenomenon that all those APPS got back to the other or was that just sort of like inattention to capitalism It's like in the seventies and eighties. This is Tim moves book the cursive bigness in the seventies and eighties Robert Bork I can't talk about Robert on this podcast. Are we doing this right now. Robert was very influential judge Appellate Judge Federal Appellate? Judge. And basically moved the antitrust law to the consumer harm standard as part of a movement called and economics. A whole thing Robert. Bork. Mostly famous because he was not appointed. He was nominated Supreme Court by Reagan but they leaked video tape rental history, and then he didn't get nominated and that is where the expression getting bork's comes from. This is all true Netflix's still has to abide by videotape data privacy act is a whole. This is all true when facebook and Netflix had some partners, Nansen? Partnership. To. Automatically share your net flicks, watch history to facebook. They're like pending the change of this law which we are working on Robert Bork. He haunts us all. I'm sorry, I can't believe this much. Yeah I. think that's just like the law changed in the in the seventies and eighties, the standard change. The conversation right now is a very much about changing it back months and months ago, pre pandemic, we had an economist from I. Think it was Nyu Thomas Philippon came on the show, and he was like look you have this natural ab test going on in the world where the European Union when it formed was like, how do we get an economy like America's? So, we'll just take their competition policies pretty good, and at the same time we changed consumer harm standard. So everything you're seeing the EU is basically our old competition antitrust standard in. You can see how active they are in everything. Here's a new consumer welfare standard. Whether you believe, this is actually a functional Ab test given. The state of both governments is up for debate, but that was his point I thought. It was spare can say.
Sandworm: A New Era of Cyberwar and the Hunt for the Kremlin's Most Dangerous Hackers
"Everybody from the British. Ask this week's interview. Episode has any Greenberg senior writer at wired. He just SORTA book called Sand Worm New Era of cyber war in the hunt for the Kremlin's Miss, dangerous hackers, it is all about hacking group inside of the Russian government called San Worm. They were responsible for the most damaging cyber warfare attacks over the past year there behind not PECI. The hackers took out in the mayor shipping line hospitals across the U. K San has totally escalated. What we think of Cyber War, and he's book gets all into how they were discovered how they were flushed out the. The intricacies of these various hacks. It's super interesting. The book is a thrill ride. If you're looking for something that isn't the virus. This is like a thriller, a highly recommended. It was really fun to talk to her about the stuff. one thing I. WanNa know we're all at home so during this in every might hear some kids in the background. I asked you just be a little forgiving that we're all. We're all dealing with it and he was a great interview. Check Out Sandy Greenberg of sand worm, a new era of cyber war and the hunt for the Kremlin's most dangerous hack. Any Greenberg your senior writer at wired you're also the author of Sand Worm, new era of cyber war in the hunt for the Kremlin's most dangerous. Welcome glad to be here so even writing about cybersecurity frontier I think you just said two thousand six and writing about Cybersecurity, but this book sand worm as I was reading it. It seems like it's called the new era of cyber war. It seems like there's been a huge turn in sort of state-sponsored. Particularly Russians sponsored cyber attacks. How did you come onto that notion? How did you begin reading this book I'm I'm very curious how you see. See that turn happening well. In late twenty sixteen, my former colleague Kim Zetter she had been the one who really covered state sponsored hacking in cyber war stuff, but she left wired, and this was also at the time. When you know Russian hackers were meddling in the US election, they'd hacked the democratic. National Committee and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee and the Clinton Campaign, so my editors were really primes on face, mantra hacking all of a sudden, but what they? They really what they told me they wanted was a actually like a big takeover of the whole magazine. All about cyber war, but cyber war to me is different than those kinds of espionage election, meddling tactics so I went looking for no real cyber war story, which means to me like a actual disruptive cyber attacks, and as I looked around. It seemed like the place where that was really happening was in Ukraine not really in the US in fact maybe. Maybe what was happening in? Ukraine seemed to me like it was in some ways, the only real full blown cyber war that was actually occurring where Russian hackers were not just attacking the election which they had done, they tried this spoof the results of a presidential election, but they had also attacks media and destroyed their computers. They had attacked government agencies and tried to like destroy entire networks, and then they had turned off the power for the first time. In December of two thousand, fifteen, the the first actual blackout triggered by hackers, and just as I was look into this happened again the the effect, the seem hacker group caused a blackout this time in the capital of Kiev so I wince looking in Ukraine for this cyber war story that. Turned into a cover story for wired that kind of gave editors what they wanted, but then also kept unfolding This cyber war kept growing in scope and scale and. The original story written for wired was kind of about the fact that you could look to Ukraine to see the future of cyber war that will what was happening. There might soon spread to the rest of the world. And that is actually what happens to like just after we publish that cover story to same hackers released this climactic terrible cyber attack in Ukraine. Called Not Petiot that spread beyond Ukrainians became the worst cyberattack history cost ten billion dollars, so when that happened, that was when I saw that there was potential to do a book about this that it was not just a kind of case study about Ukraine or even kind of predictive story, but a an actual full story arc about this one group that had carried out the what I would say was not only the first. First Real Cyber War, but the worst cyberattack in history and the you know I wanted to capture the the Ark of that story in the effects, the real experience of cyber war. Yeah, so the group is called sand worm in this is just one of the the sort of opening arcs of the book is how they've come. They come to be named this because references and code walk people through just like it's so. relatable that like even these hackers are using using this language that leads them recalled Sandwich Tell people about it. So when I started to look into the origins of this group after that second blackout attack I I found that this this company called eyesight partners which have been acquired by fire I I, said partners was the first to find these hackers in twenty, fourteen, basically using fishing in kind of typical espionage tactics, plant malware in the networks of typical Russian hacking targets like groups across Eastern, Europe and NATO in a look like what they were doing was just kind of typical espionage. They were planning. This by wear calls lack energy buds will first of all they could see that they were rushing, because they had this server that they were using to administer some of these attacks and they. They left the server, so anybody could look at it in. There was a kind of Russian language to file for how to use black energy on the service, so these guys seem like they were rushing, but even more interesting in some ways. was that they to track each victim each instance of black energy? This malware has little campaign code in each campaign was a reference to the science fiction novel Dune and you know so like one of them was something about Iraq is, and then one of them is about the sutter cars, these like imperial soldiers in in that SCI FI universe so I said partners named this group sand worm, because well just because it's a cool. Name associated with doing, but it turned out to me. It became this very powerful because a sandwich miss this monster that lies beneath the surface, and occasionally arises from underground to do terribly destructive things. partners didn't know that at the time, they they soon afterward realized what sand. was doing was not just espionage, but they were actually doing reconnaissance for disruptive cyberattacks. They were also hacking power grids. They were planning black energy, not only in the European Eastern European targets in the US power grid networks as well. The Ultimately Syndrome was the first twenty fifteen to cross that line in use black energy as the first step in a multi step attack that led to a blackout. So this was not just espionage really was kind of like you know this monster that rises from under the ground to do terrible acts of mass destruction that came to pass so one of the things that comes up over in the book. Is this growing sense of dread from security researchers and analysts? Oh this is an imminent threat to the united. States just Ukraine, but like this is happening here and then there's a sense that the United States actually open the door to this kind of warfare with stuxnet. which was an attack on Iran? How how did those connect for you that it seemed like there's a new rule of engagement new set of rules of engagement for cyber warfare that actually the United States implicitly created with with stuxnet by attacking Iran. Yeah, I mean I tried to highlight. Clearly sand worm are the real bad guys in the story, they are the actual hacker group that did these terribly reckless destructive attacks that actually in some cases put people's lives at risk, the kind of in some parts of the story they actually shutdown medical record systems and I. Think may have cost people's lives with cyber attacks today they are the actual antagonist here, but I also want to highlight the ways that the US government is is partially responsible for the state of Cyber War, and there are a few ways that that's true. I The US! Open the Pandora's box of cyber war with stuxnet. This piece of now where that. That was used to destroy Iranian nuclear enrichment centrifuges that was the first piece of our that actually have caused that physical disruption destruction, and we now see Sandra doing the same thing in Ukraine. In in fact, in some ways around the world, also the the US hordes, these kind of zero day, secret hacking techniques, some of which were stolen and leaked and used by sand worm, but then I think the in fact, the biggest way that I tried to highlight that the US is responsible or complicit or negligent. Here is that we did not call allows what Santorum was doing in Ukraine and say to Russia. We know what you're doing. This is unacceptable. Nobody should be turning out the lights. Two civilians with cyber attacks. There wasn't a message like that I. mean the Obama White House sent a message to Russia over this kind of cyber hotline to say your election hacking is not okay. We see what you're doing and we want you to stop, but they said nothing about a tube blackout attacks in Ukraine, and that was kind of implicit signal to Russia. They could keep. Keep escalating, and even as all the cyber security, researchers and Ukrainians were warning that what was happening to Ukraine, would soon spread to the rest of the world, the US government ignore this both Obama, and then the trump administration until that prediction came to pass and a sand worm cyberattack did spread to the rest of the world, and it was too late, and we all suffered globally as a result, so let's talk about patch it. WAS CATASTROPHIC IN SCOPE, right? It took out the mayor shipping line, which is a massive business. It took out some hospitals in UK like it was huge in scope. I don't think people really put it all together. Talk about how it started and how big it grew. Yeah, so not too was kind of like big apotheosis sandwich, where all of these predictions of the terribly destructive things they were doing to the rest of the world came to pass but it did it started in Ukraine. They hijacked this. The the software updates of this accounting software called me doc that is basically used by everybody in Ukraine. The quicken turbo tax of Ukraine. If you do business in Ukraine, you have to have this installed, so sanborn hijack the updates of that news to push out this worm to thousands of victims mostly in Ukraine, but it was a worm, so it's spread the mmediately end quickly kind of carpet bombs. The entire Ukrainian Internet's every computer at spread to would encrypt permanently. You could not recover the computer, so it very quickly took down pretty much every. Every Ukrainian government agency twenty two banks multiple airports for hospitals in Ukraine that I. could count and in each of these cases. What is eight took them down. I mean it destroyed essentially all of their computers, which requires sometimes weeks or months to recover from, but then as you know, this is a worm that does not respect national borders. So even though it was, it seemed to be an attack intended to disrupt Ukraine. It immediately spread beyond Ukraine's borders. Borders to everybody who had this accounting software installed? That was doing business in Ukraine and some people who didn't so that includes Maersk. The world's largest shipping firm and Fedex and Mondelez, which owns cadbury, NABISCO and ranking manufacturing firm that makes tylenol in Merck. The Pharmaceutical Company in New Jersey on each of these companies lost hundreds of millions of dollars. The scale of this is kind of difficult to capture but I in the book I tried to. To I focused in part Maersk because it is just a good company to look at because you can. They had this gigantic global physical machine that is they have seventy six ports around the world that they own as well as these massive ships that have tens of thousands of shipping containers on them. And I told the story of how on this day seventeen of their terminals of were entirely paralyzed by this attack with ships arriving with just. Piles of containers on them. Nobody could unload. Nobody knew what was inside of nobody knew how to load or unload them with around the world of seventeen terminals, thousands of trucks, Semitrailers, carrying containers were lining up in Lyons miles long because the gates that were kind of checkpoints to check in the these trucks to drop something off or pick it up. They were paralyzed as well. This was a fiasco on a global scale is responsible for a fifth of the world's lable shipping capacity. They were truly just a rendered brain dead by this attack, but yeah displayed out at all of these different victims MERC had to borrow their own each vaccine from the Center for Disease Control because they're manufacturing. Manufacturing was disrupted by this, and it ultimately spread to a company called nuance, nate speech to text software. They have a service that does this for hospitals across the US to dozens of our possibly hundreds of American hospitals at this backlog of transcriptions to medical records that were lost because of this, and that resulted in patients, being do for surgeries or transfers, other hospitals in nobody knew their medical records were updated. I mean this was scale where hundreds of hospitals each of which has thousands of patients missing changes the medical records. We don't know what the effects of that work, but very well could've actually harmed people's health. Our lives I mean the scale of not petty is very difficult to. Get your mind around, but we do know that you know monetarily cost ten billion dollars, which is by far the biggest number we've ever seen, but it also had this this kind of harder to quantify toll on people's lives, so it it you know you read about it at length and wired. Obviously these companies go down of ripples in mainstream sort of general press, but I don't feel like people really not like Oh. This Russian group called San Worms sponsored by the Russian government. Unleash this attack in it caused this cascading effect of failure and disaster cost in that because we know what we can attribute it to the government, our government. I don't feel like that connection got made for people. What is the gap between other as a hack and Oh, this is actually a type of warfare engagement, because that that connection seems very tenuous. I think for a lot of people. Even as sort of the more general mainstream press covers this stuff. Yeah, you know. I don't think that that's is just like the nature of. Of Cyber War I think that was a failing that that lack of connection is a failing on our government's parts, and on you could say even on the part of some of these victims like these large companies I mean I at the time did not pitch it happened. I was fully on the trail of standard within days. I was talking to cyber security researchers who? Who had piece together? Some of the forensics to show the not petiot was Sandra that it was a Russian state-sponsored attack in yet none of those companies that I mentioned mercker Mondelez or Maersk or Fedex, or any of them wanted to say the Russia had done this to them and know governments were talking about either like the Ukrainian government was. They're always willing to point. Point the finger at Russia, but the US government was not, and you know that to me seemed to be just kind of I mean I felt like I was being gas. Let's at that point. I had watched Russia due to Ukraine for a long time at that point tonight. I sort of understood that NATO in the West. We had this kind of cruel logic that. Ukraine is not us. Russia can do what it likes to Ukraine because they're not NATO not e you. They are Russia's sphere of influence or something I think that that's very wrongheaded, but at least it made sense. You know to have that that viewpoints, but now this attack had spread from Ukraine to hit American soil American companies in many cases and yet still the US government was saying nothing I just thought this was bizarre and you know so i. For months I was like. Trying to get any of these companies to tell the story of of their experiences, not Peta I was trying to figure out why the US government wasn't talking about the fact that this was a Russian cyberattack and ultimately I. Think it was I. think it was kind of I know partly disorganization negligence. I think it may have something to do with the fact that the. The? Trump administration doesn't like talking about Russian hackers for obvious reasons, but eight months after it took eight months ultimately for the US government to finally say not that it was a was Russia it was the worst cyberattack in history, and then a month later. The White House impose consequences in put new sanctions on Russia and response, but it took nine months and more importantly it took. Multiple years this without was the first time this was twenty eighteen, and the Russian cyber war in Ukraine had started around the fall of Twenty fifteen, so that's just incredible span of negligence when the US government said nothing about these escalating unfolding. Acts, of Cyber Award that there should have been unacceptable from the very beginning I mean these are the kind of quintessential acts of state sponsored cyber attacks on civilians, trying out the lights. You know that's the kind of thing that I believe that the US government should have called out and drawn a red line across at the very beginning took ears, so I do think it was a big failing. Of of diplomacy, it just seemed like that part of the problem, and this is kind of an expression is it's so hard to describe like if the Russian government sent fighter jets to America and live their support. Okay, like everyone understood, you can see it. You can understand what happened there. In the you know, there's like a however many decades of movies about how to fight that war. This is a bunch of people in a room typing. Like it there's just an element of this where the dangerous Oh federal where the attack is invisible, and while the effects might be very very tangible, the causes are still sort of mysterious people so. My question is who is sandwich. What what do we know about them? Where do they work? What are they like? Do we have a sense of how this operation actually operates? In some ways the the biggest challenge of reporting this book, and I spent essentially the third act of the book, the last third of the reporting of the book, trying to answer the question of who is in worm, who are these people? Where are they located? What motivates them and I guess to partially spoil the ending here. They are a unit of the year you. They are a part of Russia's military intelligence agency, which is responsible for you know, this is not a coincidence. They are responsible for election meddling responsible for the attempted assassination of You. chemical weapons in the United Kingdom they're responsible for the downing of a seventeen as commercial passenger jet over Ukraine were three hundred innocent people died on the G. R.. You are this incredibly reckless callous out military intelligence agency, but they act like kind of almost just cut through mercenaries around the world. Doing Russia's bidding in ways that are very scary, so I threw essentially like a combination of excellent work of a bunch of security researchers who I was speaking to combined with some confirmation from US intelligence agencies, and then ultimately some other clues from the investigation of Robert Muller into meddling all these things combined created the trail that led to one group within the JERE. You that were you know I? Eventually had some names and faces even address of this this group, and all that was actually only finally fully confirms After the book came out Justin in recent months when the White House finally actually was the State Department's. End as well as the UK on Australian and other governments together finally said yes, sand worm is in fact that this unit of the year you so this theory that I developed in positive near the end of the book was finally basically confirmed by governments just in recent months. So one thing that strikes me at that is I, think of the Russian military things. Gru is being foreboding being obviously, they're very very good at this other a buttoned up in then they have like a incredible social media presence that kind of POPs up throughout the book that distracts from what doing. They set up Gucci for two point Oh when they were doing the DNC hacks that fed to wikileaks in the. That account insisted it was just guy. They set up the shadow brokers which was. I read. It is just like your some goof-balls like they wanted to seem a lot dumber and a lot smaller than they were. They were very effective at it to people I. Talk About those that strategy, and then I guess my question have is like a re better at seeing that strategy for what it is well. You make a really interesting point. The uses these false flags like throughout their recent history that we I should say we don't know that they were responsible for shadow brokers. In fact, nobody knows who shot a brokers. The shadow brokers truly are, and they are in some ways the biggest mystery in this whole story, this one group that hacked the NSA apparently and leaked a bunch of their zero day hacking techniques, or maybe they were even say insiders. We still don't know the answer to that question, but the other other incidents you mentioned. That are you are responsible for this Guja for two point zero fake hacktivists leaked a bunch of the Clinton documents. They're responsible for other false flags like they at one point to call themselves the Cyber Caliphate pretended to be Isis. They've a pretended to be like patriotic pro. Russian Ukrainians at some point they they're always like wearing different masks ends. They're very deceptive. in the a later chapter of the book, some of the biggest one of the biggest attacks they. They did was this attack on the twenty thousand Olympics where they not only wore a false mask, but they actually had layers of false flags where as cyber security researchers W. This melwert was used to destroy the entire back end of the two thousand eighteen winter Olympics. Just as the opening ceremony began, this was a catastrophic events. The aware had all of these fake clues made look like it was Chinese or North Korean or maybe Russian. Nobody could tell it was like. It was this kind of confusion bomb almost designed to to just make researchers throw up their hands. Give up on attributing mallards. Any particular actor was only through some amazing detective work by some of the analysts that I spoke to the able to cut through those false flags identify that sand was behind this essentially, but yeah, it's it is a one very real characteristic of the jury you that they are almost they seem to almost take pleasure or like be showing off their deception capabilities to and their evolving those capabilities they are getting more deceptive over time as fake gets more, destructive aggressive. Advertising content when I say Utopia what comes to mind? Birds Chirping lush natural beauty dialed up and vibrant technicolor. Is it within reach. Your world. World. explained. You are an essential part of the Pathak social body. Everybody in that place. Everybody happy now. While the peacock original series brave new world takes place in a scientific futuristic utopia. The concept is nothing new Sir Thomas more. I introduced the theory five hundred years ago, but we keep looking for that community identity stability of aldous. Huxley's Utopia and not finding it. Americans are the unhappiest they've been in decades and we're increasingly lonely. whereas in a utopia, everyone belongs to everyone else. In nineteen, forty-three, the psychologist Abraham Maslov developed a theory of Yoga. One that allows total self determination in basic terms. maslow's theory says that in a utopia we decide for ourselves what we need and how we're going to get it in Huxley's Utopia. Citizens always get what they want and don't want what they can't get. Sounds pretty good right then. Why can't we make it happen? For a Utopian Society, to work, we might need to disband some of the things we hold dearest marriage government privacy individualism, even family. See for yourself if a utopian world is as perfect as it seems watch, brave new world now streaming only on peacock. This is advertising content. Hey. This is bowes I'm a podcast or By, I, a Gamer Five G. is changing the gaming world in really unexpected exciting ways with the help of Samsung Five G. I'm getting a peek at how gaming is getting faster smoother and can even improve our lives well. Let's dish some secrets about the future gaming. Dr Jean Mechanical Direct Route Game Research and development at the Institute of the future. She's also a bestselling author game inventor. She's optimistic about gaming impact on us and our minds. The biggest thing that we've seen in research is that. We need to be able to game in the moment wherever we are. So, what happens when when you're playing when your favorite games is that it fires up than her logical pathways, it's kind of like having a of caffeine and a pet dog from your favorite coach, and you've just meditated for an hour. This emotional neurological power up is called the game transfer effect, and that effect is heightened when using five. Five G. The game transfer fact requires you to be totally immersed in the game, so you want to have the most amazing graphics and the most immersive audio and with five G. to do that anywhere anytime, be one of the first to harness the game transfer effect with Samsung Galaxy Five G. now available on Galaxy, S Twenty-five g and a seventy one five G. feels good to be I with Samsung. I love to play the game of like. Imagine the meeting and imagine that the one set of meeting which is like the actual hackers finding the vulnerabilities figuring out how to jump from Windows, eight computer to some sort of physical hardware controller that actually runs like that. That's a very hard problem in and of itself, and then the other meeting. They're like what we're GONNA do is claim to be a guy called Gucci for two point, Oh and like those are. Not Connected Right, but the way they throughout the book the way they execute East campaigns they're deeply connected, and that seems like not only just a new kind of warfare, and you kind of craft, but some just consistently seems to work in surprising ways like the tech press is GonNa. Be Like Gucci. I says this and we're. There's never that next step of also we think it's Russian government, and that seems like first of all I'm dying. I imagine the meeting right. I would love to be a fly on the wall of the meeting where they decide what their twitter name is going to be today. I'm very curious how they evolve those attacks in such a way that it just seems to be more and more effective time. Yeah, I mean. I also love to have been those meetings in. It's my one kind of regret in this book that I never actually got. Interviews, it's almost an impossible thing to do. They liked find defectors from the R., you or something. He will tell those stories at a knock it murdered I mean. It's kind of a possible, but but. In some cases? I think your earlier points. They almost seem kind of bumbling in these things they do them in a very improvisational way. for two point Oh seemed almost like it was a justice thing they invented on the spot, tried to cover up some of the the accidental ups like they had left russian-language formatting errors in the documents that they had leaked from the DNC, so they admitted this guy who appeared the next day and started. Talking about being a Romanian. Friends as motherboard Lorenza, Franceschi decry he started this conversation. Align with with Guja for two point, oh basically proved at the guy could not actually properly speak Romanian. BE Russian speaker. In fact, it was. It was almost comical at the same time. They're using very sophisticated hacking techniques doing destructive attacks on a massive scale, but they're also. They seem like they're kind of making it up as they go along. They do things that don't actually seem very kind of strategically smart. They kind of seem like they're trying to impress their boss for the day. Sometimes with just like some sometimes, it's just seems like the Jere. You wakes up in asks themselves. Like what can we blow up today? Rather than thinking like? How can we accomplish the greater strategic objectives of the Russian Federation? So they are fascinating in that way and very stringent colorful group. That's I think one of the biggest questions I have here is. We spend a lot of time trying to imagine what flat and Mirror Putin wants. You know when he grows up, but it. None of this seems targeted like what is the goal for Russia to disrupt the Winter Olympics right like. Is there a purpose to that? Is that just a strike fear? Is it just to? EXPAND THAT SUV influenced. Is it just to say we have the capability furious is there? has there ever really been the stated goal for this kind of cyber warfare? That one is particularly mystifying. I mean you can imagine why Russia would want to attack the Olympics. They were banned from the two thousand Eighteen Olympics doping, but then you would think that they might want to attack the Olympics and send a message maybe like eight deniable message a message that you know if you continue to ban us. We're GONNA. Continue to attack you like like any terrorists would do, but instead they attacked the winter. Olympics in this way, that really seemed like they were trying not to get caught, and instead like make it look like the was Russia North Korea? And then you have to like what is the point of that was? The could kind of. Sit there in Moscow and kind of like rub their hands together in gleefully. Watch this chaos unfolds. It almost really does seem like it was petty vindictive thing that they just for their own emotional needs wanted to make sure that nobody could enjoy the Olympics if they were not going to enjoy them I that was, but that one is i. think outlier in some ways for the most part you can kind of see. The Russia is advancing. The G. R. You that sand worm is advancing something that does generally make sense which is that. In Ukraine for instance, they're trying to make Ukraine look like a failed state. They're trying to make Ukrainians. Lose faith in their security. Services are trying to prevent investors globally from funneling money into Ukraine trying to create a kind of frozen conflict, as we say in Ukraine where there's this constant perpetual state of degradation. They're not trying to conquer the country, but they're trying to create a kind of permanent war in Ukraine and would cyber war. You can do that beyond the traditional front end. It is in some ways the same kind of tactic that they used in other places like the US which. which here we saw more than influence operation that they were hacking leaking organizations like democratic campaign organizations and anti doping organizations to kind of so confusion to embarrass on their targets. They're trying to influence like the international audiences opinion these people, but in Ukraine, it is in some ways, just a different kind of influence operation where they're trying to influence the world's view of Ukraine. Influence Ukrainians view of their themselves under government to make them feel like they are in a war zone even when their kid hundreds of miles from the actual fighting. That's happening on the eastern fronts in the eastern region of. Of Ukraine so in a book you you you go to Kiev. You spent time in Ukraine. Is there a sense in that country that while sometimes light goes out sometimes our TV stations. Their computers don't boot anymore. Because they got rewritten, the Hydros got Zeros like. Is there a sense that this is happening? Is there a sense the defy back is there does Microsoft deploy you know dozens of engineers to to help fight back. How does that play out on the ground there? Yeah, I mean to be fair. Ukrainians are very stoic about these things and regular. Ukrainian citizens were not bothered by you know. Know a short blackout. They didn't particularly care you know. This blackout was the first ever. Hacker induced blackout in history but Ukrainian cyber security. People were very unnerved by this end, people in these actual utilities were traumatized I mean these attacks were truly like relentless sins very kind of scary for the actual operators at the controls I mean in the first blackout attack. These poor operators Ukrainian control room in western Ukraine they were locked out of their computers, and they had to watch their own mouse cursor. Click through circuit breakers, turning off the power in front of them I. Mean They watched it happen? At these kind of Phantom hands to control of their mouse movements, so they took this very very seriously, but yet Ukrainians as a whole I mean they have seen a lot. They are going through an actual physical war. They've seen the seizure of Crimea and the invasion of the east of the country. You know the the date hits. A Ukrainian general was assassinated with a car bomb in the middle of Kiev, so they have a lot of problems, and I'm not sure that cyber war is one of the top of their minds, but not patio I. Did, actually reach Ukrainians normal. Ukrainian civilians to it. It shook them as well. I talked to two regular Ukrainians. who found that they couldn't swipe into the Kiev Metro. They couldn't use their credit card at the grocery store. All the ATM's were down The Postal Service was taken out for every computer that the postal service had was taken out for more than a month. I mean these things really did affect people's lives, but it kind of. A until that kind of climactic worm. Not Patio for I think for this to really reach home for Ukrainians. who have kind of seen so much. How do you fight back? I, mean I one of things that struck me as I was reading. The book is so many of the people you talked to people who are identifying the threat. They're actually private companies. Eyesight was the first even detect it. they are contractors to intelligence agencies the military in some cases, but they're not necessarily the government right like it's not necessarily Microsoft. Who has to issue the patches from the software not necessarily GE which makes simplicity, which is the big industrial controls talk about a lot. How does all that come together into a defense because that seems like harder problem of coordination? Yeah, I mean defense in Cyber. Security is in an eternal problem. It's incredibly complicated, and when you have a really sophisticated determined adversary, it know they will win eventually ends I. think that they're absolutely lessons for defense in this book about you know. Maybe you need to really really think about software updates for instance like the kind that were hijacked to a with this medoc accounting software. As a vector for terrible cyber-attacks. Imagine that like. Any of your insecure apps that have kind of updates can be become a a piece of Malware, really unique to signature networks need to think about patching on. There are just an endless kind of checklist of things to every organization needs to do to protect themselves so. In some ways that just like a Sisyphean task and I don't. I don't try to answer that question in the book because it's too big, and it's kind of boring as well, but what I do really hammer on is the thing that the government's really could've done here. which is to try to establish norms tried to control attackers through diplomacy through kind of disciplinary action through things like kind of Geneva Convention for Cyber War if. If you think about a kind of analogy to say like chemical weapons, we could just try to give everyone in the world a gas mask that they have to carry around with them at all times, or we could create a Geneva. Convention norm that chemical weapons should not be used in if they are than crime, and you get pulled in front of the Hague. Hague and we've done the ladder and I think that in some ways should be part of the the answer to cyber war as well we need to establish norms and make countries like Russia or like organizations like the G. Are you understand that there will be consequences for these kinds of attacks, even when the victim is not the US or NATO or the? The EU and I think we're only just starting to think about that. One of the questions I had as reading is it seems like a very clear red line for almost everyone you talk to is attacks on the power grid right? That is just unacceptable. You should not do it if you do it. You've crossed a line and there should be some consequence. Is, that clear to governments. Is that something that our government says? It's something that the says it has been established. It seems like it's it's the conventional wisdom wants to salvage, but I'm not unclear whether that is actually the line that exists. It definitely has not been established, and when I kind of did these I managed to get sort of interviews with the top cyber security officials in the Obama ends trump administration Jay Michael Daniel was the cyber. Cyber Coordinator for the administration was the kind of cyber coordinator boss in the The Homeland Security Adviser for trump and both of them when I asked him about like wiped. Why didn't you know to put it bluntly like? Why didn't you respond? When Russia caused blackouts in Ukraine? Both of them essentially said well. You know that's not actually the rule that we want to set. We want to be able to cause blackouts in our adversaries networks. In their power grids when we are in a war situation or when we believe it's in our national interest, so you know that's the thing about these cyber war capabilities. This is part of the problem that every country. Absolutely the US among them isn't really interested in controlling these weapons, because we in this kind of Lord of the rings fashion, we are drawn to them to like we want to maintain the ability to use those weapons ourselves and nobody wants to throw this ring in the fires, of Mount Doom. We all wanted maintain the ring and imagine that we can use it for good in out. So that's why neither administration called that Russia for doing this because they want that power to. Make the comparison to to nuclear weapons but Negotiated drawdown and treaties with Russia in the past we count warheads where aware that the United States stockpiles can destroy the world. Fifty Times over today maybe tomorrow one hundred hundred like what we have a sense of the the measure of force that we can. Put on the world when it comes to nuclear weapons, there's a sense that Oh, we should never use these right like we have them as a deterrent, but we've gained out that actually leads to his mutually assured destruction like there's an entire body of academics. There's entire body of researchers. Entire body is got scenario planning with that kind of weapon. Does that same thing exist for for cyber weapons. There are absolutely. Know community is of academics. Policymakers who are thinking about this stuff now, but I don't think it's kind of gotten through to actual government decision. that. There needs to be kind of cyber deterrence in how that would work. In in the comparison to nuclear weapons is like instructive, but not exactly helpful. In fact, it's kind of counter-productive because we cannot deter cyber-attacks with other cyber-attacks i. don't think that's GonNa work in part because we haven't even tried to establish it yet. There are no kind of rules or read lines, but then I think more importantly. Everybody thinks that they can get away with cyberattacks that they can. They're going to create a false flag. That's clever enough that that when they blow up a power grid, they can blame their neighbor instead, so they think they're. They're gonNA. Get Away with it, and that causes them to do it anyway. A not fear the kind of assured destruction so I think that the the right response, the way to to deter cyber attacks is not with the promise of a cyber attack in return. It's with all the other kind of tools we have, and they've been used sometimes, but but they were not in the case of Sand Werman. Those tools include like sanctions which came far too late in the story indictments of hackers. In some cases, we still haven't really seen syndrome. Hackers indicted for the things that they did in Ukraine or or even not petty. And then ultimately just kind of messaging like calling out naming and shaming bad actors, and that has happened to some degree with Sandra, but in some cases there have still been massive failures there there has still been no public attribution of the Sandwich attack on the twenty eighteen Olympics I mean. My Book has been out for months. I think show pretty clear evidence that syndrome is responsible for this attack. The very least it was Russia and yet the US and Korean War, These Olympics took place at UK, none of these governments have named Russia as having done that. That attack which almost just invites them to do it again whenever our next Olympics are going to be, I guess maybe not this year, but if you don't send that message than you're just essentially inviting Russia to try again so I think might my big question is what happens now? I mean right we you write about. The NSA has tailored access operations, which is their elite hacking group. We are obviously interested in maintaining some of these capabilities. We've come to a place where people are writing books about how it works. What is the next step? What is the next? does it just keep getting worse or does this kind of diplomacy you're talking about? Is that beginning to happen I? Think there is some little glimmers of hope about the diplomacy beginning to happen I mean this year in February I think it was the State Department's called out a sand worm attack on Georgia, where a worms hackers basically took down a ton of Georgian websites by attacking the hosting providers as well as a couple of TV's broadcasters in the US. State Department with a few other governments not. said this was sand. Worm named the unit of the GRU. That's is that was confirmation that I've been looking for for a long time, but they also made a point of saying that we're calling this out is unacceptable, even though Georgia. Georgia is not part of NATO or the U. so that's that's progress. That's essentially creating a new kind of rule. That's state-sponsored. Hackers can't do certain things, no matter who the victims and that's really important. Also, it was kind of interesting because federal officials like gave me a heads up about that announcement before happened, which they have very very rarely do and I think they were trying. To say was in we. We read your book and we. Got The message okay like Stop attacking us about this like we're trying. We're doing something different here I. Don't want flatter myself that I actually changed their policy, but it did seem interesting that they wanted to tell me personally about this so i. I think that like maybe our stance on this kind of diplomacy is evolving, and we're learning lessons, but at the same time we also see the attacks evolving to. To and their new innovations in these kinds of disruption happening, we've seen since some of these terrible Sandra attacks. You know other very scary things like this piece of our called Triton or crisis that was used to disabled safety systems in a oil refinery in Saudi Arabia on that was you know that could have caused an actual physical explosion of petrochemical facility? The the attacks are evolving to okay final last real question. Tell people where they can get your book. You can find all kinds of places by on indie Greenberg Dot net. Written another book as well previously, yes. That's right. I wrote a book about wikileaks. Cypher punks and things like that. That's right well. I'm a huge fan. It was an honor to talk to you. Thank you so much for coming on I know it's. It's a weird time to be talking about anything, but the coronavirus I was very happy to talk about something else, which is that it seems a little bit more in control Even if it is quite dangerous, a thank you for the time. I appreciate it. Yeah, I'm glad to provide people with a different kind of apocalypse as a distraction.
100-Year-Old Tom Moore, Who Raised Millions By Walking Laps, Has Been Knighted
"And finally, Captain Tom Moore, a 100 year old World War two veteran, has been knighted by the Queen at Buckingham Palace today. Captain Moore became a British national hero earlier this year for his fundraising efforts during the covert 19 pandemic by walking 100 laps around this garden before his 1/100 birthday in April. Over 1.5 million people donate to the cause. Moore's initial goal of 1000 UK pounds turned into more than $40 million. You can see the picture of the Queen Knighting Captain, Sir Thomas
"sir thomas" Discussed on 600 WREC
"Not sure of all well sure calls for works if you don't quit do played your comments you not no we were not sure of all well she calls play is quote I think Sir Thomas on foreign us never ever in the in the world and done to simply that I would ever be nodded in no it just did not did enter my head that it would it's a but this sounds good a lot of the sound of it I'm hoping well then the social builder will pull for the little ones sold homo going to manage the new Wiltshire and how do we get down the world made because if I get down a song a little I love those stories about dogs that get stolen or they wander off during vacation and somehow they find their way home hundreds of miles to the home to their home it is like a homing device in in the the family thought they'd never see their dog again there well a man in Spain had an emotional reunion but this time with his donkey after they were separated for two months because of quarantine sometimes you miss your favorite acid happens the donkey has an emotional also gave rise is it possible.
"sir thomas" Discussed on KDWN 720AM
"Get from your current plan is to advise you many times and you sure can't get in your current for one K. so let's make it simple let's put together your very own strategic process for you let's put together for you your market recovery action plan let's take a look at your four oh one K.'s let's ask you what you really want to do in the future analysts design a plan that enables you to do what we call it the total retirement plan for a reason because it has a lifetime income built in has safety protection and lifetime income and then Thomas after we design that looked on his left over money what you've already designed all the money you need for income in the core point plan then we take the leftover money and we give it to money management teams because one desperate visor so we customize their choice of teams to what you say you want and then we make sure to take the necessary gambles with money we don't need for retirement to see if we can increase the money we gain for retirement so again if you don't need the money it's a lot easier to take risks with it unfortunately many of you listening about taking risk with all the money and some of that money a lot of that money should never been attached to wrist to begin with Sir Thomas the next twenty people call we're gonna roll our sleeves up we're gonna get that action plan put together we're gonna get an educational process put together we can offer this to you in person online on the internet or on the phone because a lot of folks are practicing the social distancing so we wanna make it easy for everyone but folks the worst thing you can do is have the wrong plan the second worst thing you can do is not take action when you know you need to stop procrastinating let's take advantage of the free time we have now to make sure that our plan is actually doing what it was set up to do again the next twenty people do it for you eight eight eight seven oh two eighty eight ninety eight eight eight eight seven oh two eight eight nine eight you can also text the word Vegas.
"sir thomas" Discussed on No Agenda
"You've got and we'll see you at the roundtable able to be next Thomas. Hitler Collar Three Twenty one these from Austria ATM. I'm sending I think he's from Austria. Yeah Australia's from Austria. But I say there is no no no I just jumped in and just be inserted myself. I'm sorry I'm sending you a countdown donation. In appreciation of the services you provide provide Australia's great country. People should visit it. You provided me over the years my love being the main beneficiary but this donation also comes with some mm critique by last Karma requested not produce the intended results after considering the possibilities for this failure. I was left with the realization that my donation amount was. It's too low for the requested service so I up the ante to try again. Please send some extra potent now or SAR of To Me Dan my smoking hot wife eat pizza the fun life history and at some point eight serious but before for that and as usual can we get the shape shifting Jews. Keep up the good work with all the best from Austria Sir Thomas the unbelieving night. Okay okay so what I think you and I don't I don't think has anything to do with. Oh did donation amount per se. But I think you need a swat enough Karma which is an old one which really only pertained to a certain donation amounts? I will play that for you. With the Karma it'll be the Swazi Enough Karma that should work.
"sir thomas" Discussed on No Agenda
"You've got and we'll see you at the roundtable able to be next Thomas. Hitler collar three twenty one these from Austria ATM. I'm sending I think he's from Austria. Yeah Australia's from Austria. But I say there is no no no I just jumped in and just be inserted myself. I'm sorry I'm sending you a countdown donation. In appreciation of the services you provide provide Australia's great country. People should visit it. You provided me over the years my love being the main beneficiary but this donation also comes with some mm critique by last Karma requested not produce the intended results after considering the possibilities for this failure. I was left with the realization that my donation amount was. It's too low for the requested service so I up the ante to try again. Please send some extra potent now or SAR of To Me Dan my smoking hot wife eat pizza the fun life history and at some point eight serious but before for that and as usual can we get the SH- shape shifting Jews. Keep up the good work with all the best from Austria Sir Thomas the unbelieving night. Okay okay so what I think you and I don't I don't think has anything to do with. Oh did donation amount per se. But I think you need a swat enough Karma which is an old one which really only pertained to a certain donation amounts? I will play that for you. With the Karma it'll be the Swazi Enough Karma that should work.
"sir thomas" Discussed on No Agenda
"You've got and we'll see you at the roundtable able to be next Thomas. Hitler Collar Three Twenty one these from Austria ATM. I'm sending I think he's from Austria. Yeah Australia's from Austria. But I say there is no no no I just jumped in and just be inserted myself. I'm sorry I'm sending you a countdown donation. In appreciation of the services you provide provide Australia's great country. People should visit it. You provided me over the years my love being the main beneficiary but this donation also comes with some mm critique by last Karma requested not produce the intended results after considering the possibilities for this failure. I was left with the realization that my donation amount was. It's too low for the requested service so I up the ante to try again. Please send some extra potent now or SAR of To Me Dan my smoking hot wife eat pizza the fun life history and at some point eight serious but before for that and as usual can we get the SH- shape shifting Jews. Keep up the good work with all the best from Austria Sir Thomas the unbelieving night. Okay okay so what I think you and I don't I don't think has anything to do with. Oh did donation amount per se. But I think you need a swat enough Karma which is an old one which really only pertained to a certain donation amounts? I will play that for you. With the Karma it'll be the Swazi Enough Karma that should work.
"sir thomas" Discussed on KDWN 720AM
"Yes I wanted but I had another question all right I heard you say recently he spoke about our on a recent program about our children in cancer and I was really interested in that because I just can't understand how I mean children develop cancer hold it hold it hold it we're not you don't have any children I think I don't think you have children I think you call me out for astra so it either wanted jet well that's not cancer this is still a condition that I thank you and your for emotional reasons but you call me to help you to overcome it but you cannot overcome it unless you know what became of you how it got there why am I can no yes Sir no Sir Thomas a special kind of trauma is the relationship with the mother correct yeah yes and she she pushed you in to doing things she does she's a knack to make you do the right thing and but when you were a child you knew more about what right is because you are younger than you are every child comes in the world we didn't intuition but what ever in every family including mine when a child comes into the world two and a half way decent mother she tries to push him and program him to be a better person which is not the right way what it does it upsets the kid and she becomes a nag because you're about and the more you rebel the most is to your mother thinks she's failed and she tries hard to and pretty soon you get upset and give it in get upset and give in and when you give in to giving your whole life to your mother another was she you wear out your there's a word for it your energy and I was if you were running from my ally and sooner or later you're gonna get is the line is going to catch up with you and you have no more left to fall to the ground asthma is giving your mother giving into your mother giving into your mother and giving into my than every time you give into her you you're becoming into a ball broken person and you're not you know not any worse but you obey and you hate the way.
"sir thomas" Discussed on KDWN 720AM
"There that the Cheryl hello Cheryl how are you doing the morning hello and well you have asthma you are volume went down I can't hear you too well this is not a matter all right now you have asked right seven thousand nine I'm not quite sure what you say everything she was nine are and how do you have a child I just turned fifty eight how would you like to be good now yes I wanted but I had another question all right I heard you say recently he spoke about our on a recent program about our children in cancer and I'm really interested in that because I just can't stand out I mean Roger and develop cancer hold it hold it hold it we're not you don't have any children I think I don't think you have children I think you call me out for astra so it is no wonder change it well that's not cancer this is still a condition that I thank you and your for emotional reasons but you call me to help you to overcome it but you cannot overcome it unless you know what became of you how it got there why am I can no yes Sir no Sir Thomas a special kind of trauma is the relationship with the mother correct one yeah yes and she she pushed you in to doing things change she's a knack to make you do the right thing and but when you were a child you knew more about what right is because you are younger than you are every child comes in the world we didn't intuition but what ever but in every family including mine when a child comes into the world two and a half way decent mother she tries to push him and program him to be a better person which is not the right way what it does it upsets the kid and she becomes a nag because you're about and the more you rebel the most is chief your mother thinks she's failed and she tries harder and pretty soon you get upset and give it in get upset and give in and when you give in to giving your whole life to your mother another issue you wear out your there's a word for it your energy.
"sir thomas" Discussed on KDWN 720AM
"There that the Cheryl hello Cheryl how are you doing Rory hello and you have asthma you are volume went down I can't hear you too well this is not about it all right now you have asked about right seven thousand nine I'm not quite sure what you say everything she was nine are and how do you have a child I just turned fifty eight how would you like to be good now yes I wanted but I had another question all right I heard you say recently he spoke about our on a recent program about our children in cancer and I was really interested in that because I just can't understand how I mean children develop cancer hold it hold it hold it we're not you don't have any children I think I don't think you have children I think you call me out fast so it is no wonder change it well that's not cancer the condition that I thank you and your for emotional reasons but you call me to help you to overcome it but you cannot overcome it unless you know what became of you how it got there why am I can no yes Sir no Sir Thomas a special kind of trauma is the relationship with the mother correct one yeah yes and she she pushed you in to doing things change she's a nag to make you do the right thing and when you were a child you knew more about what right is because you are younger than you are every child comes in the world we didn't intuition but what ever in every family including mine when a child comes into the world two and a half way decent mother she tries push him and program him to be a better person which is not the right way what it does it upsets the kid and she becomes a nag because you're about and the more you rebel the most is chief your mother thinks she's failed and she tries harder and pretty soon you get upset and giving you get upset and get in and when you give in to giving your whole life to your mother another issue you wear out your there's a word for it your energy and I was if you were running from my ally and sooner or later you're gonna get is the line is going to catch up with you and you have no more left to fall to the ground asthma is giving your mother giving into your mother giving into your mother and giving into my than every time you give in to her you're becoming into a ball broken person and you're not you know not any worse but you obey and you hate the way and.
American cancer survivor swims across English Channel
"An American cancer survivor has succeeded in her remarkable quest to swim across the English Channel four times in a row what yeah back and forth sheriff what is it about twenty miles soon thanks Sir Thomas who is from a Colorado completed the feet Tuesday morning after more than fifty four hours of swimming the thirty seven year old completed treatment for breast cancer last year he was cheered by a small crowd as she arrived in Dover England she was given champagne and chocolate to celebrate he has dedicated to swim to all the survivors out there must be a heck of a swimmer to do that in chaos in fifty four hours that's well amazing.
American cancer survivor sets English Channel swimming record
"An American cancer survivors succeeded in request to swim across the English Channel but she didn't do it just once A. P.'s at Charles de Ledesma reports she swept the channel four times in a row Sir Thomas from Colorado completed the feet off the more than fifty four hours of swimming she was cheered when she arrived at the southern port of Dover and given champagne and chocolate to celebrate Thomas said she was a little sick of the so much time in the water and is dedicated to swim to all the survivors out that the thirty seven year old completed treatment for breast cancer at loss here show some of this month.
American cancer survivor sets English Channel swimming record
"This out of thirty seven year old Colorado woman becomes the first to swim across the English Channel four times without stopping Sir Thomas took fifty four hours to do it I feel this mostly is done right now I just can't believe that we did it Thomas tells the BBC that she's honoring fellow breast cancer
"sir thomas" Discussed on KDWN 720AM
"Right now you have asked about right seven thousand nine I'm not quite sure what you say everything she was nine are and how I just turned fifty eight how would you like to be good now yes I wanted but I had another question all right I heard you say recently he spoke about our on a recent program about our children in cancer and I was really interested in that because I just can't understand how I mean children develop cancer hold it hold it hold it we're not you don't have any children I think I don't think you have children I think you call me out fast said it wanted jet well that's not cancer the condition that I thank you and your for emotional reasons but you call me to help you to overcome it but you cannot overcome it unless you know what became of you how it got there why am I can no yes Sir no Sir Thomas a special kind of trauma is the relationship with the mother correct one yeah yes and she she pushed you in to doing things she does she's a nag to make you do the right thing and when you were a child you knew more about what right is because you are younger than her your every child comes into the world we didn't intuition but what ever in every family including mine when a child comes into the world two and a half way decent mother she tries to push him and program him to be a better person which is not the right way what it does it upsets the kid and she becomes a nag because you're about and the more you rebel the most is to your mother thinks she's failed and she tries harder and pretty soon you get upset and giving you get upset and give in and when you give in to giving your whole life to your mother another was she you wear out your there's a word for it your energy and.
"sir thomas" Discussed on KDWN 720AM
"I'm not quite sure what you're saying everything she was nine are and how the child I just turned fifty eight how would you like to be good now yes I wanted but I had another question all right I heard you say recently he spoke about off on a recent program about our children in cancer and I was really interested in that because I just can't understand how I mean children develop cancer hold it hold it hold it we're not you don't have any children I think I don't think you have children I think you call me out for astra so it is a one eight jet well that's not cancer the condition that I thank you and your for emotional reasons but you call me to help you to overcome it but you cannot overcome it unless you know what became of you how it got there why am I can no yes Sir no Sir Thomas a special kind of trauma is the relationship with the mother correct one yeah yes and she she pushed you in to doing things she does she's a nag to make you do the right thing and when you were a child you knew more about what right is because you are younger than her your every child comes into the world we didn't intuition but what ever in every family including mine when a child comes into the world two and a half way decent mother she tries to push him and program him to be a better person which is not the right way what it does it upsets the kid and she becomes a nag because you're about and the more you rebel the most is to your mother thinks she's failed and she tries harder and pretty soon you get upset and given you get upset and give in and when you give in to giving your whole life to your mother another was she you wear out your there's a word for it your energy.
"sir thomas" Discussed on KDWN 720AM
"I'm not quite sure what you're saying everything she was nine I had a whole new level to China I just turned fifty eight how would you like to be good now yes I wanted but I had another question all right I heard you say recently he spoke about our on a recent program about our children in cancer and I'm really interested in that because I just can't understand how I mean children develop cancer hold it hold it hold it we're not you don't have any children I think I don't think you're of children I think you call me out fast so it either wanted jet well that's not cancer the condition that I thank you and door for emotional reasons but you call me to help you to overcome it but you cannot overcome it unless you know what became of you how it got there well my can no yes Sir no Sir Thomas a special kind of trauma is the relationship with the mother correct one yeah yes and she she pushed you in to doing things change she's a nag to make you do the right thing and when you were a child you knew more about what right is because you are younger than her your every child comes into the world we didn't intuition but what ever in every family including Martin when a child comes into the world two and a half way decent mother she tries to push him and program him to be a better person which is not the right way what it does it upsets the kid and she becomes a nag because you're about and the more you rebel the most is to your mother thinks she's failed and she tries harder and pretty soon you get upset and give it in get upset and give in and when you give a hand to giving your whole life to your mother another was she you wear out your there's a word for it your energy.
"sir thomas" Discussed on KDWN 720AM
"I'm not quite sure what you say everything she was nine are and how do you have a child I just turned fifty eight I how would you like to be good now yes I wanted but I had another question all right I heard you say recently he spoke about our recent program about our children in cancer and I'm really interested in that because I just can't understand how I mean children develop cancer hold it hold it hold it we're not you don't have any children I think I don't think you have children I think you call me out for astra so it is a one eight jet well that's not cancer the condition that I thank you and your for emotional reasons but you call me to help you to overcome it but you cannot overcome it unless you know what became of you how it got there well my can no yes Sir no Sir Thomas a special kind of trauma is the relationship with the mother correct why yes yes and she she pushed you in to doing things seem to she's a nag to make you do the right thing and when you were a child you knew more about what right is because you are younger than her your every child comes into the world we didn't intuition but what ever in every family including mine when a child comes into the world two and a half way decent mother she tries to push him and program him to be a better person which is not the right way what it does it upsets the kid and she becomes a nag because you're about and the more you rebel the most is chief your mother thinks she's failed and she tries harder and pretty soon you get upset and given you get upset and give in and when you give in to giving your whole life to your mother another was she you wear out your there's a word for it your energy and I was.
Thomas Cook explores potential sale
"So Capital? One is building a better Bank one that feels nothing like a typical Bank. It's why they've reimagined banking and built something completely different capital. One cafes. They offer checking accounts with no fees or minimums and savings accounts. With one of the best savings rates in America. This is banking reimagined with your needs in mind. Open an account today at any Capital One location or online in five minutes and experienced banking reimagined for yourself Capital One. What's in your wallet capital? One NA member FDIC, Michael Georgio. From the newsroom of the financial times in London. I'm Suzanne blimp, sir. Thomas Kirk the nest Hugh hundred year old UK holiday company is considering putting itself up for sale after a disastrous year when it's market cap. Timbale eighty percent Katie Martin discusses what's gone wrong. And who the potential buyers might be with anti-growth and Jonathan Guthrie. How bad is it for Thomas Cook? What did the company's recent results show? So the results from September of last year show that they swung to a pre-tax loss of one hundred twenty three million. And that's compared to nine million in profit the year before also the net debt increased to three hundred eight hundred nine million from forty million in two thousand seventeen and the share price has also taken a big hit it traded at one pound forty in may two thousand eighteen best since declined to close to twenty four point five pay. So the market doesn't like it. I mean apart from the rising debt, what is it in the results is giving investors cause for concern. I think is that the swinging to a loss in particular. So that's been the investor response, but how has management responded to the decline that's business? What can actually do about this? Well, the issue two profit warnings last year in the space of two months after that they hired a restructuring specialist called Alex partners. To work on ballot sheet and cost reduction plans and two months ago, they launched a strategic review of that airline business and included in that was the idea that they might want actually set following that Lufthansa and Ryan add both the hands up and said, we might be interested in buying Pov that business in Europe. And they also said that they'd be closing twenty one stores putting three hundred jobs at risk. I mean, having storefronts in bricks and mortar to go with this sort of business does seem somewhat strange, right? Yeah. Why think that basically travel habits at changing a lot and online travel agencies? We starting to see them to quite look better. So also holiday companies in the same sort of boats is this an industry wide phenomenon. We'll trading conditions in the UK are really challenging at the moment as weak demand increased competition and these changing travel habits, so Thomas Cook's main competitor in Europe to e as issued profit warnings as well and the budget. Airline EasyJet will say issued a downbeat outlook. So there's a lot of it about Jonathan. Can you give a flavor of the history of the company it's been going since the eighteen hundreds right? I mean, what's going wrong? Does it still have potential? Yes. Well, the thing about Thomas Cook. Of course, was it used to be a real innovator. And it started out in LeicesteR nd one of its signature successes were tools of the pyramids in eighteen sixty nine because there was this middle class growing that wanted to travel more soon as people have a bit of money they like to go on holiday and they managed to tap into that their current problems. I think are actually really rooted in the north is when Manny fun ten VO was the boss, and he doubled down on bricks and mortar he actually did a big deal with Kyle acquired five hundred more stores. Even that time this seemed like a pretty old thing to do online. Travel was already burgeoning Huey which was run in the UK by a man called P too long was very agile. They. Got into this. They were big traditional travel business than based in Germany, and they got into this. They started doing a lot of stuff online. They started offering a loss of tailored and special offers to try and differentiate themselves on Thomas, co frankly was asleep at the wheel until about twenty eleven when it had a huge debt crisis, and it's really been struggling ever since it's never quite got back on its feet. Right. So when you think about the bricks and mortar today alongside the clicks and mortar of travel company who actually walks into a shop to buy their holiday these days while I think we were talking earlier nine aside probably people over the age of sixty. I think there is probably some truth in that the way the Thomas Cook developed during the sixties and seventies. It was very much to pioneer mass tourism to the Costa's so magalogue Benadryl places like that. But a young generation of consumers very price conscious. And they can get very much more cheaply online. Now, potentially still a customer base out there that will prefer to do it in this way. But it's aging one definitely so who are the potential buyers. If that's what it comes to if the companies put up for sale while we've heard already about who might come in for the airline, which they've essentially marked for sale. The most recent rumor is that photo son from China might want to buy the whole of the business. It already has a seventeen percent stake. And there are ways that you could see that might work. You said what do you go to seventeen cents state whilst of influence that they had on the company already? Can we tell joint venture? And if you think back to Thomas Cook in LeicesteR tapping into a rising middle class. This is what I in which is basically an investment company, but it's got a big travel side. This is what I in his been doing in China with a bit of assistance from Thomas Cook. Because Chinese people more prosperous at least in the middle class. I want to go on whole day. They want to go and see the Alhambra and the Mona Lisa and the Niagara Falls. So those potentially a deal to be done there. I'd say except essentially a good match possibly. Yeah. I mean, it depends on the price and also the debt position which is hugely slippery because it's the season business. I have these huge peaks and troughs in debt, particularly when you've advertised a bunch of holidays people are signing up than they haven't paid. You yet you go up to net debt of one point six billion the most recent counts,
"sir thomas" Discussed on WBBM Newsradio
"Sir thomas. John Woodward is better known by stage. Name Tom Jones. The singer for Bankole Tommy, Scott and the senators one night at a concert. He was snatched up. I knew manager who took them the London and gave him a new name who's meant to explode the popularity of very popular in winning film of the time the British comedy the whole world loves Tom Jones. WBZ news time seven forty five. Look at sports by grandview homes, if they write to Wrigley field in a nice start for the cubs tonight as they begin a series with the dodgers. Here's WBZ's Rick, Greg. Yeah. It's four nothing. Dave cubs in favor. The they made Kanta made a work in the first inning loading the bases. And then eventually breaking through with a Wilson Contreras. Dribbler doubled down the third base line that brought in three right after that. Daniel the scalp so double brought in the fourth run eight thirty seven pitches in the first walk to allowed three hits struck out just one and all came after Jose tunnel work to one two three top half. He has now allowed a hit. It is still for nothing comes in the second live at Wrigley field. Rick, Greg who's ready on one point nine FM dated voting on the paternity list? Randy resign up from triple A and Addison Russell joining triple. He'll get some games in before his forty game suspension for violating MLB's domestic violence policy comes to an end the White Sox getting pounded in Baltimore nine. Nothing orioles. They play the bottom of the fifth. Yvonne. Bova gave up two run Homer to Chris Davis a three run shot to Dwight Smith junior. Joey record two run Homer as well. And Carson Fulmer is now on in relief came and roquan Smith named the bears 2018 Piccolo award winners today. This was also the time for Jim Ryan pace to look ahead to the draft beginning Thursday, though, the bears won't be picking until Friday evening in round three paces the same kind of pressure to pick the right players is on the pressure. Feels the same to me like I feel like I feel like with fewer picks. And with later picks the onus is on us as scouts to hit on these picks. You know to keep this momentum. We feel like momentum. Keep this momentum going his we need to distressed. I feel the pressures say college hoops Kansas guard, Charlie Moore's heading back to Chicago. He'll play for paulie played at Morgan park was the twenty fifteen twenty sixteen Illinois, Mr. basketball.
"sir thomas" Discussed on Pet Life Radio
"Thomas, sir. Thomas was also a rescue foster from two in baseball pet rescue mission. And I'm going can get adopted. I fostered him and went to all kinds of and he was going to all kinds of vans and everybody wanted to adopt him. And as soon as I told the people that while he's up elliptic, and he's going to have to be on medication for the rest of his life. Never answer was. Oh, well, I'm sure if somebody will adopted we'll guess him, and he also passed away on the table getting neutered and they brought him back to life. So he's got a lot of medical problems. But I don't care. I love him. Thank you so much as you can see we had a ton of really really really great portrait Sierra, you know, these pets costumes were. Amazing and everybody has such a great turnout. Thank you, Monica. And thank you to everybody who came out. It was a big success with a lot of people at the event itself and the event is actually still going on. So I'm gonna let you go back to what you're doing. And it all goes to good cause. Can we let everyone know about that? Yes. So I know we've talked about it before. But the owner of shamrock preschool, my daughter used to go to school Debra who's here as well. Deborah, and I got together and started talking, and we started for the office called chip in which is an acronym for children helping injured pets in need and the fun host funds for pets that need emergency treatment. So let's say for example, dog was hit by a car and the owner could not afford to take care of that pet financially to get them back home. So the owners would have to elect to you than as Asia they couldn't afford to treat. So the fun chips in pays for the treatment. And gets that pet back home safely with their family and the chip in fun. This year is actually going to donate. The funds raised today to some of them medically needy pets of true and faithful which is here today. They have some really medically needy cases that they have not gotten fosters or sponsorships for these dogs. And these dogs need a lot of care. So they can find their forever home. So a lot of the proceeds today are going to go to those dogs some of them need an eye removed. Some I mean, it's some major stuff. So we want to make. Sure that these dogs get it. Forever home. Well, thank you. And thank you, everyone and Monica as always it's great to have you on for the great work that you're doing to. Thank you so much. Everybody have.
"sir thomas" Discussed on WNYC 93.9 FM
"I hadn't the. Heart yet remember these sweet words till death. Do, us Married men None of them because I was untrue to none of them because I bumped off every one, of them Sir Paul was frail he looked wreck TIMMY at night he was a horse is Nick to me So I performed Then Sir thomas Insomnia, he. Couldn't Arsenic Keeping Played the. Har I cussed. Thing I crowned him with his heart to the thing And now he plays where harps are just Oh I, bought, Sir George. Possibilities.
"sir thomas" Discussed on KQED Radio
"Way. Way too rough on himself forty two banned items and one. Slip up, in three, days I mean come on but, I also find myself thinking look how, much effort he expended look how much angsty put himself through simply to get himself to do the. Things already wanted to do that's why some people aren't such big. Fans of the commitment device I really think commitment devices are kind of. A, farce that Steve Levitt again he tried a commitment device on himself once he, was actually in Thomas showings undergraduate, class. In economics at Harvard Sir Thomas was one of the. Greatest economists of all time. He won the Nobel prize he was a wonderful lecture shelling was also one of the first scholars to study what we. Now call the commitment device but I had this problem which was at nine AM classes. Soon settled into a seat I would immediately go to sleep and I really. Wanted to see. These lectures I just couldn't Keep my eyes open and so I. Had this brilliant idea now. This was an economic class on strategic thinking and what better way of using strategic thinking was then to us the commitment. Device of putting myself in the very front row in the very middle seat how could. I possibly fall asleep if Thomas show was looking right at me as he. Delivered a lecture And unfortunately it couldn't have been more than two minutes into class when I found myself dozing off already and I couldn't keep my eyes open the entire lecture and I decided. Well that, can, mimic drives didn't work I'm gonna. Sit in the back of the class at least it's not half it's embarrassing, problem with commitment devices is as clever. As your current self is it trying to devise, ways to keep your future self from getting around in the future self desperately wants whatever it's being denied and it finds ways to to get around it, I mean well people pretend to? One commitment devices I think the down real people don't really want them All right so.