7 Episode results for "Sir Denia"
Summer Destinations Part 1: International
"Hello travel nerds and welcome to the extra peanut travel. Podcast episode number. Four seventy two. There are three. Us states with an official state muffin. Any guesses what states have their own state muffins. Here's a hin their corn muffin and apple muffin and a blueberry muffin. Think about it and all that you know in just a little bit one of the things that has changed so much since we went to university have. How long ago was that. I don't think we need to reveal that information over fifteen under twenty there. You go over fifteen back then. You could study abroad. But that was kind of the extent to spreading your wings in college. That was a known thing. Okay you can study abroad. It was offered to a lot of people but now with amazing online learning programs like oregon state's e campus. You're able to earn your degree while doing things. You love like traveling. Was that even a consideration in your mind. Back between fifteen and twenty years ago i i knew i wanted to travel. That's for sure. But i didn't know how will be the most possible other than traveling as semester abroad right which which neither us decided to do for various reasons but we were not given that option like daniel roberson. Who played pro baseball in the majors hopping coast to coast. While the bachelor's degree along the way but oregon state e campus gives people that option there consistently ranked in the top ten in. Us news and world report. They've got over eighty programs to choose from which you can check out by heading to e campus dot org instate. Edu slash peanuts. So if you do check it out remember ahead there through a link so we get some love from those. Do you remember the mascot. ask you. why am i never preparing the beaver fever. You gotta get some love from the over at oregon state to remember. The link is e campus dot oregon state dot edu slash. Lions can an open playing. And we've forgotten this old cities name the of breath on window pane. Lets us tom phillips. Try sir i a okay. Maybe our most interesting intro fact we've ever had. I was legitimately laughing out loud as i found this back. I don't know how i found. It just popped up. And i thought this is awesome. Okay so we're talking about twelve states. Three stay oh sorry. I thought you said twelve three states. Who have their own muffin. Korn ferry and oh yes. I blue berry. I would guess maine. No but that is fantastic. As the reason actually found this was was because the state. I was looking up for fun. Intro had a blueberry muffin. it's not mean it is another ems state though okay michigan elbow. You're getting much closer much came. Minnesota has the official state muffins or blueberry muffin. I mean none of these. Speak to what i would guess. so for. example cord muffin. Maybe i'd be like oh south. Yes more with a lot of corn but it's massachusetts is houston and apple. Muffin is new york okay. i guess. Think of apple's york. I don't know this is a strange intro fact verschoor and i mean what is. This has to pertain to states in the us. And we're talking about we're talking summer travel destinations. Twenty twenty-five travel destinations for twenty twenty one. I was looking up minnesota for reasons that will get into. And i just saw this and i thought oh my gosh ever statement and that has to be the only stay state the and then i looked it up and sure enough. It's not the only state this team. So i though we'd have a little fun if you guys got any of them. Congratulations if you've got all three. We need to know on instagram. Because you might be the smartest person when it comes to geography geography facts in the world and king. Yeah baking geographer. You gotta go on jeopardy because if you got this man. See new york apple muffin massachusetts. Good muffin minnesota bloomberg marvin. I can't tell if you're nonplus to this. If you're a little annoyed with this or you think it was funny. Because i thought it was all i mean. It's funny just that you're the one who does the intro fact and then i have to guess so i never get to be the one with the answer. It just has me feeling a little bit perturbed right now. Richard up next. We'll switch it then. The next couple episodes we'll switch up. Heather doesn't like not getting the right answer or knowing the answer. So when i throw it to her she gives me i roll. And she's like. How am i supposed to get this. Of course i'd i mean usually pretty obscure unusual interfax which is fun but not when you're the one who's supposed to be able to answer them to be able to answer. I think you're just supposed to guess with it. So are you cool with you. Come up with interfax come back to travel and see. Have a better success me. I don't think so. We are talking summer travel wishlist today. Twenty twenty one. Summer travel wishlist. Have you've done a lot of research. You've you've been knee deep in this. So you're you're kinda running the show today. Well it's just obviously an interesting year because we're in twenty twenty one and we are recording this podcast in the middle of me so i know a lot of people are hoping to begin traveling again but with in the pandemic still affecting people everywhere. It's still an unusual and somewhat unsafe time to travel so. I wanted to make sure that we had the information about where people are allowed to go now in the. Us of course a lot of people are getting vaccine and the plan is that seventy percent of americans adult americans will be vaccinated by the middle of june. That's president biden's plan and therefore a lot of countries will be opening their borders to vaccinated. Us citizens so right now. Recording this podcast. Not that many places are open. So the way that i made my list is i have five destinations in the us. Because as americans we can explore our beautiful country it's very large with lots of cool place to go. And then i have five international destinations which the five that i have chosen. You can go to right now. As of may fourth their borders are open. i we will also link to articles. One article is from the new york times and it was published about a week or two ago that says basically the european commission. The president of the european commission has eluded or said essentially that europe will open. Its borders sometime this summer for a vaccine in american citizens so that means the whole of the e. You will be open at some point. But if you're not feeling comfortable in traveling or booking ticket until it's completely secure my five countries you can go to right now so you can listen to this day after listening but you can also you know. Take your chances and book. Something to anywhere in the eu. Maybe for later in the summer early fall on it should be ago but again i have five destinations in the us. That i would like to go to now. Your list my list of where i wanted to go and i didn't give that much thought because i just said i'm just going to figure out where i to go now. I went back and checked if you could go to these places. What's interesting to me is that there is conflicting information. The with even on the us embassy site for certain countries like some you can go to but it's highly discouraged. So what does that mean. I mean i yeah anyway so mine. Don't book your ticket just from listening to me. And then sam gonna book a ticket. Here do your research i. I do a little bit of that. But i kind of just went off the cuff of where would i wanna be right now. Kind of eternal optimism. There and then i also have five from the us. I originally had five total. You said now. I've got far from us. I've got five international so now we've got that. So what are we starting with. International i than us or vice versa with international. I because i just feel like dreaming of about going somewhere a little more exotic all right counting down your number five in the international section. My number five. And i did have some honorable mentions but it does get into Lori prevention that five and five. That's your well my honorable mentions they would be on my los except currently right now you cannot go to them as of may twelve recording this podcast and that is sir denia which is an island off the coast of italy in between like italy and france. And i've always wanted to go there. It's beautiful. I think it would be amazing. We went to corsica a couple of summers ago. And sardinia is right below there. And i just felt like oh we just popped down there and go to that island who so. That's my honorable mention and the other one is an island that we have been to in the mediterranean and that is new york and we have a friend there. It's actually traps friend from college and she lives there. She's like oh you guys should come over this summer. We love may work so much. I would love to go again right now. Not possible but maybe over the next couple of months. Those are my honorable mention. Okay i mean. I'm good with an all right. What's your number five number. Five is your favorite country or at least one of your favorite countries that you always talk about being l. this off the beaten path. George yes 'cause you can go there right now. It is on the list of approved countries. As americans to travel to right now and i just when i was thinking about where i wanted to go. I still don't want to be around places that are extremely crowded not really necessarily because of code. I just don't feel like being around a lot of people and dealing with overly crowded tourist destinations. So i think it's just been a nice break from all of that over the past year link one little highlight i guess of the pandemic but georgia to me just seems again so unique. Not as many people go there you can have a little bit more of an authentic experience. Plastics like one of those countries in europe. It's it's obviously a first world country but it's not as touristed so i feel like they could use a boost of tourism to help them. I mean all countries can use that right now. I know but we love georgia and so my number five everything on my list is about being in nature or being away from crowds extent Then that for international and the us ones. And i think that's just don't feeling like show out whether it be on the beach by a lake. You know hiking through the mountains. Whatever my number five. I debated putting georgia on spoiler alert but my number five is in the same vein as georgia. It's just somewhere we haven't been yet and that is if you asked me if i can go somewhere without kids basically and just like go on an epic trip. Here's would be my answer okay. You look like you're guessing i will. I mean it's definitely something in eastern europe. It's going to the stands. I was gonna say was stan would have been my first. Yeah so like some of this is where the research got a little funky somewhat you in some don't cure your stand is opened a us or let me let me just say stan would be the one go to my goal would be that i'd go to Kind of all of them and and shrek around but yes. That would be my answer if you said to me. Hey you can go to an off the beaten path thing you don't have the kids go and explore and not have any worries. That's where i would want to go right now. The reasons number five is also my list. I'm kind of like feeling a lazy traveler. So the places that i've picked to me maybe not to. Everyone seem easier than some of the other places that have been on my list in in past years where it was more all my gosh. I want to go so independent. And you know i want it to be challenging and this and that this would be the only one that i would tell my list or would be challenging. This is the most challenging try. It's five so. I would take this opportunity but it would a little minute. We stressed out about doing it too. So the stands specifically curious. Dan number five. Well i think a lot of people can relate to that especially parents or you know we've been in a whole entire year of a pandemic so everybody. He's been with their kids a lot. More have been more mentally fatigued so we're just easing back into travels. Easy is kind of the name of the game right now. Easy travel travel. Although i mean some people might disagree that some of these are easy but they seem easier for me and probably for us or you could tell maybe seem easier for you. Not your number four. This country had to be on the list because had to be had to be. Because it's my favorite. Yes and they have been allowing americans to come. And i i country kind of wish we had been when it was you know no one else to see like amazing places like dubrovnik without tourists tourists because croatia is becoming so incredibly popular. Because it's amazing and beautiful and there's all these wonderful things to see but that also comes with a lot of people so going now when there there'll be less tourists. I mean you can still find lots of places in croatia that there won't be a lot of tourists. but because there's i mean a lot of most of crushes on the coast so you can find lots of islands and maury replaces but dubrovnik is not that place. Oh it's very heavily crowded split as well sovereignty. A very big hub so anyway. It's it's my favorite country. I just think it's so incredible. The food the people the landscape the islands so and they have the digital. no matter. They're going to roll out with the digital nomad visa. So if you are able to work remotely and you wanna go here for an extended period of time. This country will make it a lot easier for you. Yeah we do have quite a few people in our circle of friends and colleagues that we know that have spent a good amount of time in croatia in this last. Let's say year because they opened up quicker and I was just an opportunity to go to europe when almost everywhere else was closed Getting the see there. I did get a bit of wander. Lost your mvp seeing a lot of their pictures especially people who are in dubrovnik like. There's no one else here thought. Oh my gosh now is the time. But it wasn't the right time for us and we didn't feel comfortable doing it but some people they did my number four staying right in that same age and i very much debated putting gershon listen. I swapped croatia out for this. So when i make my list and maybe you do this to have a mike experience and saying oh what's going to give me that experience and then there's a few contenders sometimes for example thought about georgia but then was like well. Let me go to curious stand sticks. I haven't been similar. Maybe type experience. You know where. You're getting off the beaten path and remote croatia. I thought okay well. And i flip flopping here because i just said oh it had to be easy. Well cratia would be easier in this country because it's more tourist infrastructure but. I really want to go to albania. And so just pick almost for the last one. Like when i was gonna guess what it was but yeah you talk about albanian wanting to visit. So we've got good friends there Jeremy and kelly right now who have been there. They've actually been popping around. They were in belgrade for a while. And then now. They're in albania so it's just been back on my radar bit because i've been talking to kelly a lot to designing our website at location indian. So she's been doing. It washes in albania so mike. Oh this is spar you know. It's it's back here in in in top of mind again. And yeah i just i wanna get there before it kind of blows up as a tourist hotspot were blows up. Let's say so. Yeah i just was like okay. This is easy enough while being unique enough in different enough. I'd go to albany. I hate you if you had to go to craciun well number three. My number three is a place we've never been to but a country that we've been to and it's really now it's close to the us. Okay somewhere in. Canada no exit nexico interesting puerto vallarta or so. We as you know if you listen to this podcast spent two and a half months in costa rica which country were allowed to go to. We were there in january february and march and we loved it. We loved it so much with the culture. We love the surf. Vibe trap served almost every single day that we were there and so. we're kind of. I'm tom successful. So we are looking for other places that are similar and so we've heard really cool things about alita. Mexico is one of our favourite countries. I know keep saying we have a lot of fever countries. We're travel podcast. Is when you say favorite country. We're not saying top ten. Yeah could mean fifty. that's true. okay. Yeah that's true. Mexico being really close to the us and easily accessible a couple hours on an airplane so you can go to mexican tragedy to get in and yes you to get around exactly so a lot of infrastructure there for people you know good accommodations easy for english. Speaking people to go there. So i really want to check it out at some point so i also debated pudding mexico on the list. The only reason. I didn't and i didn't do enough research to even check this out. Was i just assume sourly to would be hotter in summer than maybe springer fall like. Well maybe it would be too hot in the summer. I actually don't mind hot weather so that it would wouldn't perturb me for deter me from going to to there during the summer. Yeah aah maybe. It's too hot all right when you're cutting list down to five places where you go everyone else. Listening can probably relate to any reason to whether it's legitimate or not to knock it off the list. You kinda just take because you know in my head i start with a list of twenty places and say well now i gotta get this down. My number three is a place we haven't been to either but we're supposed to go to last summer and so i'm still chomping at the bit to go there. And that is the home country of one of our good friends and actually one of the people who just insult to. Who isn't sending me surf pictures. And saying you gotta get here on. That's mikko you might have heard him on our podcast before because he did a destination diary of the country of bulgaria and so ever since last year will even since we started talking about going with him. And that's one thing is always going with someone who who grew up there whose parents know it like a local we start talking about this shoot two a half years ago now and he's completely sold me and if you haven't been sold on going to bulgaria don't know much go listen to his destination diary to one of the best ones we've ever done because he he just knows everything about you he. He explained why bulgaria so knee and all the different regions very very well. and so. yeah. I just i. I was really excited to go there supposed to go last august. We didn't and so. I'm still really excited. Because it has the beach and you can go to varna and you can go to the black coast and you can go some of the small towns if you wanna get away from the city vibe and then it has amazing mountains and hiking an old like some of the oldest cities in europe so that to me is a perfect combination of somewhere that i'd want to travel while still being able to stay away from people like give me the mountains and the beach and you know. I probably wanna pop through sofia the capital two. But maybe not spend as much time there. So i'm actually talking to myself more into both where talk wait. Maybe this should be two or one but yeah great food great weather and it's supposed to be an awesome time to be just like when we were in georgia in august and it was great. You know similar type climates. Because they're right next to each other right. Yeah i'm sold. I mean i was actually just talking to mackenzie the girl the woman who helps us with our social media and she said that she was going to try to go to bulgaria with mccowan and his rare. Aker i mean but her name is mackenzie. Yes right yes yes she's like. Oh yeah maybe going. To bulgaria was like we. I go on this trip with all of you. Maybe we'd stop on your hip hop trip to bulgaria bulgaria. That sounds superfund number two. So i actually made a mistake and my number two is not a country that you are allowed to go to right now but i had it on my list as far as my number one. You can't originally. And because i want to go there so badly but i had it on there when i started this my notes weeks ago and so anyway. It's canada. it's vancouver island in canada. And the main reason i want to go. There is because some of our best friends live there and we haven't seen them at all throughout this pandemic obviously and we just really want to see them and we love going to vancouver island in the summer. We've done it about about an easy trail. I mean we're we're very used to that area. We again have really great friends there. So that is one of the easiest trips when you visit friends because you know you don't have to worry about so much and we have gone there every year for multiple years except for twenty twenty and so i just really want to go back there and we love in couvert island and talk about you know not being around a lot of people. It's you know. Victoria's a beautiful city and there's people there but the whole rest of the island is a lot more remote and we've been to tofino which is beautiful and there's good surfing there although i'm pre shirts kolding. You need a wetsuit yet. Still trying never come. So i just think it would be lovely to go back there but yeah as of right now in. May you cannot go to canada but if you're vaccinated maybe maybe maybe by the phone eighty who knows one of the weird things i'm gonna make myself sound. I'm here but that's okay. You're saying like doesn't she know in the us we've done the trip where we've gone. S we we basically lump in the pacific northwest. And we all again other than two thousand twenty. We've gone out there for five years in rome. Go into portland. We'll do a little bit of seattle here and there but it's usually portland and vancouver and vancouver island and so it. Yeah when you were saying them like okay. that's not international. Like oh yes yes. It is yes it is okay so anyway just there you guys go dump traveling. Oh yeah that doesn't happen very often so my number two is a place that i don't even know if you can go to right now or not. didn't even look it up. Okay don't care. If i mean here was the lemme. Here is the theme behind this. I wanna go to a caribbean island. Oh so much of the caribbean is open right now. Okay like a lot of another dumb traffic. I don't mean caribbean i'm to go to. Here's the thing. I looked up to caribbean. And i looked up some of the temperatures and that actually made me think i'll just go here in the fall. Yes the winner. So my that's why having to my notes. The original was. Let's go to the bahamas. The caribbean okay. Looked it up and was like oh. It's still doable in the summer. But i'd rather go. I'll save that for like the fault. The nation or winter destination podcasts. So then i thought. I want to go to an island where the next best place. That's close. Let's go to the mediterranean and so that was the theme and i. My orca was right there. And i was going to put on there. Some did but i decided to put into place. We haven't been before was malta. So just like one of these places. I'm always wanted to go. Listen if you subbed in corsica or if you subbed in sardinia or sicily or my worker number. One has a lot of island in the mediterranean. So we'll chat about okay so you could have been any of them. I'd be fine. But i did go onto an article of the twenty best mediterranean islands. And you know i was just scrolling through them like all these sound awesome but then they sold it again in the mike now. It said. Best for value malta. Best value always. We're over three hundred. And some of the mediterranean's clearest waters and the greatest density of historic sites have any nation. You think malta might be expensive. Not so i'm putting on. Yeah you know the the origin of the pop story travel. Hacking all comes back here full circle. How many years later the value while they said best for families and then best value malta. I was split between those two rams. Let's multan yeah and are really good. Friends went there on their honeymoon. Your twitter almost twelve years ago now but yet they really enjoyed it so i think that would definitely be place. I would love to visit all right. Your number one number national number my international number. One ease greece but not the islands that we've been through so greece has so many islands and it's really fun to take the ferries there. The ferries are beautiful. They're big they're comfortable So thirty kids love going on boats. So i think that has a family trip. It would be really amazing but the islands that i would choose would be the lesser known islands or when really big islands such as crete. Which is probably i. Don't know probably but a lot of bloggers and things online say creed is the best four families because there's a lot of things to do. There's a lot of infrastructure there. There's also so many amazing beaches including this one that i just read about this morning when i was looking up his speeches which is elephants which is a pink sand beach and it's shallow and perfect for kids and it looks amazing. Yeah greece yes please. I would like to go there then. There's some other islands. The ashes are cool and i love beaches but now thinking of food. We had a greek salads and calamari and just Such amazing food. So we i. I think we both really loved recyc- i had. I had picked this destination as my top place to go to one summer when traffic georgia and i picked greece. And i think that you were just like oh we'll go to seattle to be great and thought be cool but then we loved it yet so anyway. That's my number one. I need to go off the beaten. Greece come on. Everyone goes in. That went mike. Yeah well okay. Here's why is there so many islands so you can choose a lesser known island my number one and when we first started making this list suit just number one it was the first thing that came into my head and you cannot go there as a as a. Us citizen right now. It is in the eu. I very e you have actually all of mine other than kazahkstan are in the u I think that's speaker or or in europe. Excuse me i don't mean the eu and. i think that's just because we haven't been to europe for quite a while and going on the that easy travel drain europe. Isn't that far from for us from the east coast. I considered i consider thailand. I love them. If you drop me today. I'd be super happy but i just. I didn't really want to get on a plane to go that far with a mask with the kids with the kids in a mass going fourteen hours or more twenty thirty. No yeah so so. That's why some of these are a little more off the beaten path in europe. But this one isn't this is actually the closest that you can get to the. Us wall staying in europe for other than maybe ireland airport and that is portugal It just as top of my list. I just. I'm craving going back to portugal. We have a good amount of friends who have been to portugal. Actually the next episode you listen to the next one. That comes out right after this. My buddy mike incredible episode by the way. He has a place in portugal. So he's popping back and forth there because he has some e residency stuff so he's allowed in and just like man. Yeah like just. Give me back to portugal. It's a fun easy western european country. That has incredible beaches. You can go up till has been in porto if you want to see if you want to be in the city. There's awesome towns wine country. Just it to me was like yup. This is my number one international and someone. We were just talking to about portugal. I they said that. There's the most amazing island south of of like a portuguese island. And i can't remember who it was but anyway. I definitely think portugal vietnamese in place to visit the coast. Because we we were there. We didn't we were one day in the coast at the coast because it was february was really cold so we just did the city stuff but the coast of portugal is jest. Wow yeah the coast is awesome. The islands are awesome. We yeah there's a. I mean for such a tiny country. There is such a lot to explore. I don't know if it was madera that you're talking about the island. That's that's off the coach portugal but that is getting a ton of kind of publicity for digital nomad hotspots. It's actually you know it's actually off the coast of morocco. But it's a portuguese island. And i feel like the person was portuguese. Who was telling us this. So i mean if you know who i'm talking about please let me know you're listening and you're just telling about this in the past two months then please reminding me including the canary islands and stuff like that down there And all the portugal. Now the sudden i mean those are separate trips which is great even if you made me stay on mainland portugal. I'd be more more than happy. so yeah it just. It just stuck out from the very beginning then. That usually doesn't happen. Obama list with there's a number one and its definitive and i'm like no. I'm not moving office towers it. So we're going in to our u s destinations. Heather's asking me if we should split this into two parts so why not. Yeah i think maybe we should. Because i was thinking that maybe we should try to make sure that our podcast is not so long. I don't know maybe all of you liked win. Our podcast is an hour. Plus but i just do they not it. Yeah what we'll do. Our plan change on the fly was supposed to be adjusted international destinations. But why don't we just put a pause on this. If you like this one comeback for the next episode. We'll split it up. We'll make it so that this is thirty minutes a little over thirty minutes so a commute to work posse a or one round of doing the dishes. Maybe however you listen to your podcast and actually i'd love if you answer that question for us. We'll put it up. We'll get back to put this up on instagram. when like when are you listening to the epa. podcast things. Are you doing when you're listening to podcasts. Because i know for me and half the last you with this for me. The only time i'm listening to podcast because we don't have a commute anymore is when i'm doing the dishes. Which means. I don't mind doing the dishes because i get to listen to podcasts. Or when i'm just out on a bike ride getting some exercise or oral walk slash. I don't run so much but a walks run. Those are the only times. I'm listening to podcasts. Whereas before the what got me into loving podcasts was when we lived in japan way back when twenty ten and i had a forty five minute commute to work and i would always put him podcast on the way and on the way back. What about you. When are you getting the chanceless. No podcasts. yeah. I mean probably also when i'm working out i don't really listen to a lot of podcasts. Actually but we have started listening to a podcast of somebody reading children's books. Who is really loving. The bookmarked podcast. And we listen to it now. Every single day every it's great he is great but it's a lot so let us know how you this podcast we're going to end this one and we're gonna come back right away and do our top ten. Us nation well five each year average five each top ten or five each. Have you want to split that. Some of our wishlist for destinations in the us. So we hope you like this two questions to answer. Follow us on instagram. Extra packing peanuts. One will put up a sticker or whatever they're called about. How do you listen to podcasts. And to then we'll put up where you dreaming of going the summer because i want to see your wishlist as well. That's super fun for us to get to hear that. So thank you guys for listening. Thank you for the support as always it makes us one of the top rated travel. Podcast you can get the show notes at extra pack of peanuts dot com slash shows. And until next time everyone happy very travels be playing. And we've forgotten this. Oh cities name. Ceo breath on window pane. Lets us tom phillips. Try way on my way. Seen some thing. I gotta go get a snack now because i see a minute just as blueberry muffin very hungry.
EP102- Solar Flares and Rancid Cheese
"Hello and welcome to another episode of the weird wacky and wonderful stories podcast with your hosts shelley and bella everybody among welcome to episode one hundred two of the weird wacky and wonderful stories. Podcast can't believe that now our goal is two hundred or is it one fifty one fifty august. Yeah let's let's just make you know make achievable steps. Smart right Smart yeah i did a Cost once and they taught you. The smart walls to do with goals had to be specific measurable achievable realistic in timed still. Remember me because that's why at all really okay. All right welcome to the show. Everybody thank you once again for tuning into us for those that just listening to us on the audio feed. Yes we once again in a video. A video podcast as well. The podcast if you are decision to order. That's absolutely fine just later on by the way we've got richard lenny and ruth roper wild coming along as well. They won't actually be here in body but they will be here invoice so we've got For you coming up later on as well with normal monthly slot baidu which is much appreciated and well received. Yes today we are going gonna talk some stuff that balasore today. The i have no clue. She's going to talk a base of good luck with that. One only got one thing. Yes and you know what is the best diet. You wanna lose weight. This is the best diet ever could do with some of that. Yeah could definitely do. I mean i mean you get yearly. It's finding me well. That's drinking more shake in the morning. I'm having a carrot for lunch and then food in the evening so hopefully going some way but anyway they don't want to hear about all of that stuff no but i do truly have the best diet. Okay all right cool so we say that. I love with later on this. Okay okay. Well what i wanted to talk about today is sold fleas solar flares solar flares. Yeah way different mind but anyway what is a solar flare a sorolla sorolla. A solar flare is a coronal mass ejection. Not as bella said earlier. A coronal mass. Yes not the son has not been watching too much playboy channel and after over the solar system is a coronal mass ejection and basically what it is to my understanding anyway. So the sun as we know we saw is a bowling ball gas right that is obviously molten. It's such a such a very very staying ball. Well i'm glad you asked that far as i understand it to do gravity. No no snow is to do a magnetism. Okay this son has polls basically just like we do. And every eleven years it begins a new cycle and it started new cycle last year and that cycled or during that cycle the magnetic pole shifts and depends on how fast it shifts sometimes. What it can do is it can cause some of that. Molten gas to spew. I'd normally held in with this magnetic field. Magnetic field is no shifted so some of it spills out into space. And that's what causes these solar flays so hang on so you said it's a bowl of gas superheated gas. Yeah so it doesn't have a core see. I always thought like if somebody turned the off. Switch on turn off switch off on the sun. Act that you might be able to walk on it like they can on the moon but that's not the case and walked on a hot beach. I just said if all of the heat were gone. What's left is it is hard but yeah but it's just gas. I mean it was interesting. I when you say that a super heated and so it's gas now so it just makes you wonder if it cooled then it would change states and it would become liquid and then solid so maybe i don't know yeah i mean i only just recently sadly learned that the moon is reflective. What we're seeing is not really the moon that's blowing. It's reflecting. i didn't know that until just recently. Don't laugh at me not often you a lot of video night because people could see that i'm really trying not to la try harder okay At least i'm willing to admit it. I mean i'm no new stuff all the time to this show i really am so no not i mean i. I learned today that the solar flares are caused because of the shifting of the polls the polling of the shift the shift into the polls so did not know that anyway in two thousand seventeen there was a really big solar storm an anti kohl's havoc amongst the ham radio people. You know the ham radio futuristic enthusiasts and it turned that ham radio signals into just static. It was actually when the hurricane a- was ripped through the character yeah And obviously category five hurricane ripped through the caribbean and then in two thousand fifteen solar storms knocked out a global position system in the us north east and this. This is going to be more of a concern later on thing about self driving cars. You know i was speaking to someone the other day about When i was coming back from working one day at a hotel someway And i came dame safes or was on my way back home and stuck in traffic on the m six anyone from the uk will know exactly what the sixers and there was. A there was a bloke in the lay next to me now bearing in mind we were stopped. Most of the time in a tesla and he was told intense purposes asleep. He looked to sleep using the driver. Seat you a seat reclined back. His eyes were closed. He had a kid in the back. That was probably four years of age and a seat with an ipad or something that they were playing on and when the traffic started moving the car just accelerated dan road and he was he was still asleep. was scare me. I mean obviously Human errors brad. But i'm would hate for like you'd have to call our friends and go. Oh yeah bella died because she was too lazy to steer the car. Yeah exactly exactly. In fact in your case more likely be bella died because she did steal the car. But no i'm i mean the cartage did slow down again. Because the traffic suddenly started up we went and then we came across. A you know another traffic jam ahead which is only a couple of hundred jobs ahead on the cottage. Slow down again and it carried on doing that. Stop start thing so okay. It worked good. Excellent glad for him and even more glad for the kid that was signed up back but we don't know when these solar storms are going to happen. Is it the same as the Sunspot sunspots i don't. I didn't look into sunspots They take out satellite. Tv's and things like sunspots. I believe the she's gonna dream and she's kicking the legs. So sunspots i believe are areas where you can see an injection. I believe going on if you're looking through a telescope where the sun not the normal telescope with the sun just saying but i need to look into that mortar to know for sure but my point is is that we don't know when one of the solar storms is going to happen in if you happen to be in a self driving car when the gps and everything goes down because of these sodas storms or you know. The electronics of new fail in in the device. Which is something. We've all got to think about going forward because you know the alex tricks within the system to confront as well not affect all of our cars because all all the caused these days. Electric ignitions and everything else. You know so You know what would happen to these cars like that If if all of that happened carnage. That's what happened. Can you imagine if if the whole of that motorway or highway infrastructure. was actually covered in self kosin. And that happened at a time. What would happen to all of those vehicles. Stephen king movie called maximum overdrive. You've been stifling night. Yawn flip and try and get it over with. No i'm boring you. Have you seen that. Maximum old stephen king movie and All of the things came to life All the machines eighteen wheeler trucks lawnmowers. Pretty interested in movie. But yeah but you're talking about the opposite where nothing would were nothing would. Would you know and said some of the things that we rely quite heavily on. So yeah in. A railing. Totally lost my train of thought then. Okay ailing pilots. That's what i was gonna say long pilots. They're great risk at the moment. This is reality. This isn't what if this is reality with these solar. Fuck what can i say. Solar with these solar storms airline pilots are actually at risk of getting cataracts from the solar storms when they hit and female aircrew of actually seen higher instances of miscarriages journey events of solar storms. Because obviously they're they're higher up in the atmosphere their more susceptible to again you know in march one thousand nine hundred. Eighty nine was a solar storm. That was over quebec that caused a massive province wide. I teach that lasted for nine hours. And it took dame lots of different things. A two thousand seventeen paper in the journal of american geophysical union predicted the blackouts caused by severe space weather strike as much as sixty six percent of the us population and it would give an economic loss of forty five. Sorry forty one point. Five billion dollars a day for too long while it's just absolutely crazy there was that was Won't caitlyn dacoven pitch. Who said that. It's remarkable to me. The number of people companies etc. Who think space weather is still a hollywood fiction nine. She's either pre Special assistant to president joe biden and senior director of resilience response in the national security council. Cancel and she said that during a talk at the solo weather conference last month. Killing me and didn't sleep enough meek it and you know more people are gonna think nine Probably just just just just you know. President obama actually started a strategy to learn more about solo weather or space weather. As it's being termed and in fact donald trump signed the pro swift bill into law which aims to build technology to actually aid early warning and space space weather forecast in. So that's quite interesting. Do you national grid. They're the people who run our power systems here that people run all of our transmission wires and poles the stretch across the countryside. That you see now. They've actually brought spare transformers that are ready to deploy in the event of severe space storms. The uk and the us have been working together for fifteen years now on space weather forecasting say fifty or fifteen on space weather forecast in and they produced daily reports knife airlines and power companies satellite companies etc. And anyone. really that may be affected by solar flares. So the reason why i mentioned in this now is because last year the sun started its rotation again. It started this shift again of the still got ten years. Oh well by twenty twenty five. That's when it's going to be in the height of the stuff again so it's twenty twenty-five that it looks like we're going to start seeing a lot more of these solar storms and log. We saw with. It doesn't just create these these interferences with the electric cetera. But also with our weather as well so in terms of forecasting where we are with that while we can see an eruption on the sun. But we'll only know how severe is when hits. Our satellites which are about a million miles from earth and that county gives us a sixty to ninety minute warning before it actually hits earth so all of these things that can to be deployed within sixty to ninety minutes f. We suddenly find is troublesome storm. Think you'd rather just not even saying anything and just just let it happen because you know if you're a pilot you kind need to know that that's going to happen. Yes okay. we're about people on the ground. What are you going to do just going to create this huge enormous panic. Not necessarily people need to turn off their computer systems. They need to be able to disconnect patchy from their car. You know those types of things that is important that we know. Maybe it's going to become a you're killing me with the very i can't help it the You know at the moment people have drills. Don't they ways quakes and those types of jobs know when you're in california nearby that that people would be earthquake drills so maybe in the future as our atmosphere depletes because obviously our ozone layer is what protects us from these this solar radiation as that gas worse. We're gonna become even more susceptible to these days and then it's going to become more of a regular event for so we're going to have to be able to. You know maybe get into practice some of these things that we're going to need to do to protect ourselves so i was having a thought late this morning. Unbelievably i had a thought. But i was having thought like what if you now. They're always on tv. And of all these people who were saying you gotta protect the ozone layer and you know emissions is affect and stuff and climate change. And all of that right. I thought to myself wouldn't be messed up if it's not actually his proudest. But they're saying that bad to try to get people to hold our hope vanish the case. I do hope. It's not as bad. But i mean like you done. Not because the government's they all kind of. But then i guess that would be the world that would have to be in on it. Wouldn't the all of delete same. It's the same with this vaccine stuff. You know the world would have to be in on the if there was some big cover up ed in terms of the vaccine and the virus because you know the world is striving to get a people vaccinated so. I know that there's a lot of people that i follow. People have even been on the show that are so anti vaccine. If you if you wanna call it that people think there's something else going on i don't know Jewish but for me. Unlike if i can't prove or something else going on gimme gimme the. Gimme the medicine because even if you are somebody who does believe in conspiracy theories and all that you know when you get sick doesn't matter physics conspiracy theory you know. Get the job least than you can say. Oh yeah okay. I had it but you still be alive if you got sick to be able to. I think you gotta you gotta have real faith in in conspiracy theories you bet your life on it and i know when first started talking about the vaccine i said to you i don't. I don't think i'll get right away because we aren't going to know about side effects and things like that and then you let me get a couple months before you and then europe late you though is your choice. But i'm just saying you know so. I i get why some people would be reluctant. You know if it's because they're worried about like side effects and things and some people just won't get on principle and they just won't but if it's somebody who's authentic during i think people like yourself who worked in the healthcare industry industry and actually saw what was going on. You know then you know some of the people that think that this stuff is all a hoax. Needs to be speaking people like you. You know but anyway let's get back onto i back onto solar flares. One of the really things. One of things i really wanted to mention was you know proxima centauri. That's our closest son of our son is next closest. Okay and there is a planet. They're called proxima b. Which we've spoken about before on the show and proxima b. is the nearest planet to us. That could have habitable life or could sustain life and reasons because the planet is in that. Goldilocks zone it's in that area. That is close to the sun to be able to sustain water and therefore to be up to their to their son. Yeah okay so. This is as called proxima centauri now. That has massive solar fleas. It's actually a dwarf star so so it's smaller than ours but actually that makes it a bit more unstable but interestingly the solar flares that coming off of this and i find this absolutely fascinating but there we go now the solar flares that are coming off of that the light waves are actually a millimeter in length which is about vat footballer us about a millimeter for me. What about everybody else. No i mean. I see well. Everyone else can look themselves but a millimeter. Because you'll so my point is is not that on the scale of light is huge. Frigging huge okay. A millimeter because actually the light waves that we see visible light are actually between four hundred and seven hundred. You've gone again you would. i can tell you. Dan wasn't but if you keep talking values gonna make me on. Four hundred to seven hundred nano meters is is the size of the visible light. That way you stu right now. Nanometer is actually a a million of a millimeter right so spit millimeter into a million. And that's four hundred of those is what we would normally between our our lighter. We used to so the fact that proxima b. is actually bombarded with this these massive light waves. It's actually closer to the sun. It has to be because it with it. Being a dwarf star it's a lot smaller therefore has less heat. It's pushing out on a day to day. Basis so proxima b. is closer to proxima centauri them what we are to awesome and it still in the habitable zone. Yeah so with it. Being that close to proxima centauri when getting bombarded with solar flares that are big anyway is really getting pounded and so signed a scenario wondering actually whether that is actually wiping out life the might be on the planet and there's one school of thought where some scientists think. Well it could be wipe out life on the planet because when the so flows hits achy damages their atmosphere. Okay which means that. There must feel wouldn't be able to be contained correctly and therefore wouldn't support life and other scientists rachi. Shane will actually that might. Actually that might actually create life because all tra- violet light actually causes a change in jeans. That's why we get skin cancers and that sort of stuff. Exchanges changes molecules extinct changes genetics. And so actually the amount of ultraviolet light there's been hit with may actually encourage life so it's quite interesting. I just thought i was really. Yeah so what's our son actually called. Don't know the answer to that because like the one you were talking about. They got a fancy name but we have sun. I don't know. I don't know if gopi moon is called luna angering lick it up. Yeah you bet because you know it's probably called sola probably called son schools and see. This is what we usually do when we're cut in you know we'll pause the the recording and we'll google something so that we don't know fucking stupid We look stupid anyway but yeah but batteries on a phone non trying to fill time which isn't working for a while. i just hope she goes quick. Please tell me you actually talked. What is alison cold. And not just son of our son. Okay what is it then son. I feel so as our son. Oh there we go is. Spanish for son isn't it. They are so. Make us look stupid on youtube so sex. But but so that one doesn't suck. It's been cold something and we'd gone. I never knew that i never knew. Awesome pizza yeah. I know. I know. I'm just saying like proximus proxima centauri and then we've got sun. Yeah we'll proxima means close as news. So it's probably. I know that but i'm just general story means but i'm just saying you know it probably means close. Couldn't they give it a different name leg boy boiling hot thingers. What did you have. Big big bowl aghast. Why they have to son yes. Okay so what you're one know about this best diet in the world. Yes tell me please seriously. This is going to make a lot of people getting well. It has a potential so there is this island. It's it's an italian island and it's called sir denia. Sautin thing that's island. So what would you think of. I was first thing i thought was all. This must be about sardines right sort india. Deans no see that. Would that would make me lose weight right. If if i'd eat sardines. I be really really skinny. Fitch fish person you know however there is a type of cheese. That's made their that's made with maggots alive. Maggots alive migrants. And they're in the cheese and it gets like a crust or something on top of this cheese and then you break the top and then it's all wiggly but they can still be wiggling in the cheese shop. Well they have to be. Don't because the whole point is that some people say it's an aphrodisiac. Be quiet. I'm talking and some people say that if you don't eat these meghan kill them while you're chewing them that they could get inside your intestines and perforate your intestines. So you've got like a test in so they are alive. I thought you meant. They were alive when they went into the cheese stealing the cheese. He's in the so. It's sheep's milk and mega to make this cheese much. Not spreading it and spreading it on some toasts because we like like cheese on toast and spreading on toast and you put it down on the plate chat which makes it look like. It would be fine for me. I don't mind it can go wherever it wants because it just never going across these lips and get into this here something but just in case you were wondering they. They cannot sell it commercially. So why would a cheese producer producer. Cheese you can't sell it. Well i don't know because i'm not achieved person. I'm not a cheesemaker person but can you. Can you be silly string. And you thought coming to america at having crabs was gross. No no no no no. I don't think the crops are gross. I liked crime right. I thought it was gross. And i've never seen this and people in the uk on c. I'll see if i can find a picture of it and i'll stick it up like okay. What kind of stuff in fighting on might even have a picture of the actual stuff that we at at balas right so that you can get an idea in this country. If you have crab you have a crab a crab her mate turned up with a fucking are going to stop swearing. Because i've got this is not going to have to be a subscriber only episode. Sorry guys subscriber only episode. Because i swore youtube doesn't allow you to have swearing on a non subscribe episode so subscribers. Only you're going to hear this. I had a. you'll make turned up. What was his name. I can't remember how terrible he turned up with. Mardi monty monty turned up with a flip in somalia's santa claus right of crab this was a trawler full of crab that you had in the san wooden mallet on a wooden mallet newspaper. Like this is some crazy ass was going to happen here and he cleared your tanya moon table this newspaper all over the dining room table picked up this sack and not kidding honestly and old all of these crabs onto this table they were all covered in old bay seasoning for those people the know that in america amazing and those people in the uk. You can buy it. He i if you look old. Bay is amazing made with prawns and in any shape again mazing chicken anyway. It's all covered in this stuff. Mice watering now. The taste of it was lovely. What i couldn't handle shia masoka. That was going on. We've you you guys. Just i mean it was like some kind of medieval flipping. I'm believe i honestly nino and dory spongebob and all of those people that we associate crabs. He's probably not very f- ie's they would have been absolutely shitting themselves because of the kind of stuff that was going on with these crabs. Couldn't that that walks it. Well i say do it on the quantity if it was just one you know if we just ripped a crab a part you can get over that. Because that's nice done. I can get on with it. But it was constant everywhere. Enough to run shrum ripping okay. No you'd wanna read. That bit is called the devil. In that because i choke you not because i always nice but don't worry about how crazy so anyway. Yes so how is this a diet. it's not a diet. it's just okay. i wouldn't eat it. no no. that's it that's a diet now. Trying to podcast. I would i would look at it and then i would look at somebody cracking. Open the top the little weeklies coming out and then that would be it. I wouldn't want anything to eat. Good diet to be honest with you. You have anything to eat would be good for me as well. I'll tell you why sorry. Leave gentlemen this is maybe going to get a little bit too graphic. But we don't need to do this. I need to share this with you. I went to the bathroom this morning. I'm one side finished and i was wiping. I thought i have a spot on my ass. Don't you hate those when you get a little pimple on your awesome initiative fucking heating traveled with me break to the bathroom i finished. I was doing in the bathroom. And only one on one pin there was a bit of hope cone embedded in my cheek. Shit that's funny. Oops sorry. i was stunned. The s. word. I got to go on a yeah so it wasn't an actual piece by piece of popcorn. You know you little bitch of it. Stuck to my. Oh god that's funny. It's fuck wish set have been awake then. The funniest thing was was. When i i saw scratched it. It's obviously you know a spot and it came off. And i thought an awesome. That's going to be there for long. Kurds anyway thank you guys for listening to our section. At least obviously. We've got richard and ruth coming up as you know. Don't forget you can support us with our buy a coffee link and that would really help us. I the by some popcorn link. So yes if you could help you. Coffee be absolutely great really appreciate that. Thank you to all the people that contribute in a contribute. By the we will mention your name and give you a sums up everything on here so i would be absolutely amazing. I don't forget you can go to our website. www dot we'd wacky wonderful dot com and you can reach us on all the social media links as well as fallen asleep so i've got to carry on seep. We welcome along. Richard and ruth. Hi everyone. I can't believe someone has finally arrived after all that rain. It's such a relief to actually get some sunshine for change. We're will start to get out and about a little bit more now. So don't forget when you'll ghost hunting to send any of your experiences you want to share to w way dash one four zero zero at outlook dot com. I'm starting this month. Not found written by clare. Read in that bible on the twenty eighth of may this year. The article explains that mom of to laura watson from new castle took her son byran daughter charlotte and their cousin jack on a trip to plessey woods country park back in twenty eighteen. She says that no one else was with that day. The puck is a few miles north of the city and makes a great place for family day out whilst to the park. The family group found a big old tree with low strong branches. The kind of tree that is suitable for climbing laura say she has the kids to climb up into the for photo of the photo. She took that day. The oldest has climbed several branches up off the ground and standing behind the main trunk of the tree peering through a folk in the branches. You can see his head his left hand and his right leg below him. Charlotte sitting astride thick lodge thick branch. With iran rankles crossed under the branch. She has leaned forward and he's resting had chain on the folded arms. So you can pretty much see all of her. The youngest lab is standing on the lowest part of the slightly sloping main trunk and is leaning backwards holding football in front of him. It makes for quite an awful shots for family grouping and frankly of better quality than you normally see in family photos behind byron and given the positioning apparently standing directly behind the tree. You can make out. What looks like another young dark-haired lead looking over byron shoulder you can also make out something actually on byron shoulder which might be a hand. The additional face is perfectly clear in color and you could easily assume someone was just standing there in photo bomb. The picture you can see the left eye part of their nose and cheek and half of the head with short cropped dark hair. The face is noticeably pale. The mother laura claims that no one was with him that day and no one else was nearby she points out probably accurately given the angles and positioning of everybody in the pitcher. The title shot told jack from their vantage points would have been able to clearly say if anyone else came up to the tree from behind she is quoted as saying the time. It's very unusual. And everyone is really freaked out me and my daughter couldn't even go sleep last night because we were so scared. When i go home. I put the picture on the computer. And when i zoomed in i was able to see it closer i thought what is that thing behind byron. It looks like a child. May i don't know if it's a girl. Roy but i can see this face. It looks like the hand is on my son's shoulder which is very bizarre. Some people have said must photoshop day as they can't believe it but i've explained the wouldn't even have a clue how to anything like that. It was literally taken on the phone. I'm rubbish with technology. I'm just not the kind of person to do that. I don't know much about the history of the woods but some people are saying that many moons ago a young boy drowned in the river. It is particularly creepy looking photo to be honest. And while we're taking a look at if you're interested my only reservation about really as the tiffany article laura. The mother claims that she and the three children alone in the park yet in one of the photos. All four of them here. So who is the fifth person taking that photo and if that was a fifth per person with them could it not just been them in the creepy photograph and afterwards the family thought. Hey it looks like you've got a ghost some standing behind you. If we say no one else was with us. I've had a quick dig around. And i can't find any ghost stories. Put into the pocket self and to be honest. I'm always a little skeptical of people being quoted as saying many moons ago. It's literature turn the phrase and not one you really his spoken that often unless actually recounting a story. An intriguing photo though. If you take a look just google plessey puck ghost and you'll find it easily but while sticking around i came across another article this time from the daily star in july twenty nineteen where another family had captured a strange image whilst out for the day and taking snaps at the children shall harding. Thirty visits saying fakers national history museum cardiff in june twenty nine hundred with their own children. A friend and the friend's children. The friends took pictures of themselves. And the children playing on some toy right on tractors and dumper trucks on a mighty bishop ground with some weeds. Loosely trimmed bushes behind them in one of the pages. There seems to be a half formed image standing in the weeds behind where they were playing. It looks partially transparent and of it looks to be obscured by the weeds in front of it. Which makes it particularly interesting as that tends to suggest that it is not a camera glitch. The article claims that shark discovered that the battle of saint fagan's took place here in sixteen forty eight in which around two hundred soldiers were killed. It say she researched that and found that uniforms looked just like what shall it her picture charlotte. Who from god. If said the majority of people have seen the photo think it is to soldiers in civil war. Uniforms like two men talking together. I can see it too. I had no idea. They wore a blue uniform in the civil war. But then i googled it and saw the uniform is the same. I couldn't believe it. I also think what might have but coming down from his head. When i checked the other photos events or what life figures in another picture too the it does seem to be wearing something blue but i'd be hard pushed to describe it as a uniform. It simply isn't clear enough to say what it is. I'd also be hard pushed to say. There are two figures. They're talking to each other in the image but there is something dark blurry to one side of the partially formed figure. Maybe that's just a question of interpretation and there was indeed a civil war. Battles ain't vegans in may sixteen forty eight and around. Two hundred men were killed with another three thousand captured. Parliamentarians defeated the royalists. It is however simply not true to say the commentary or anyone was wearing blue uniforms in the civil troops were formed by wealthy lord or landowners fighting for either one side or the other and they were hastily formed for the most part with no such thing as a uniform for either side in fact when the battles raged it was practically impossible to tell who was friend. Who's foe so each side took to wearing bright colored sashes into battle to avoid being killed by their own side. The parliamentarians were either pale. Blue or orange sashes with orange being far more common as it was the color of the house of essex and the royalists wore bright crimson ritz. Ones might be being a bit pedantic over this. But it's one of my personal book bays whenever ghosts to see or scribe to a location. We seem as a nation have a tendency to make them something important that ghosts of high women or royalty owners woman or nuns among soldiers people who play a significant role in our history. We don't seem to like to look at a vague outline of a figure without trying to ascribe it to a particular area to fit in the history. We expect here. We know there was a battle so the ghostly figure must be that for soldier and that must be a blue uniform. He's wearing the fact that there is nothing in the image which suggests either soldier or uniform is conveniently ignored. I'd rather be a bit more open minded and honest about what we see the facto and pleased up yourself and see what you think about it shows to my eye what looks like mostly transparent partially formed figure standing in some weeds. There's a fleshy colors area. Which could well be a face with a darker area above it which could be here. The rest of it is in distinctive blue which makes it noticeable in the green phone graham brand weeds behind it all maybe in front facing hard to tell from the angle. There is another shape. But this one is just a sort of dark smoky blob. There is absolutely nothing about it. We saved soldier to me or uniform. So i think that is reaching to make what is seen fit the known history but the fact that is there at all should in its own right be sufficiently interesting for us. It's a figure and it looks paranormal and out of place. I'm ready careful when research you find books not try and influence what people tell me. They have seen in any given location. I think is much more interesting and much more valid in terms of research into the paranormal to simply recount as accurate as possible. Exactly what anyone did see or feel or hear and if that means i get four or five completely different sightings in one place with nothing apparently linking them then so be it. Maybe what that indicates is it. The places prone to unusual phenomena which might manifest itself in a number of ways. Or maybe it means that the details tales of bogut so sprite so we elemental have something to them and these various different sightings from different people on manifestations of that energy sometimes i get location where numerous people report the same type of experience the haunting around the bedfordshire. Did you've risely mentioned narran. Several of my books is one example. I think i'm up to eight one day accounts of the same type apparition there now to my mind that speaks much. More eloquently of the traditional idea of haunting people are seeing the echo will spirit of something that was once living still hanging about the area another good example also in in north raleigh where i now have a number of accounts of people encountering the same figure on this particular stretch of road and you might even have heard me talk elsewhere about my own experience encountering the figure i found another couple of counts relating to that road when no figure was actually seen but a distinct sensation experienced which begs the question whether sometimes huntings don't manufacture for whatever reason and you get kind of an echo or a glimpse of something rather than the full blown thing itself either way. Even though the weather has finally turned into long hot summer days when you also more about having fun in the sun then chasing ghosts remember to check each of your family snaps carefully for anything untoward that might be lurking in the background. Both of the graphs i started with today's episode will take in broad daylight on normal family days out from. Hi welcome to the weird wacky wonderful. Yes it's me. Rich lenny ufologists from uk speaking to you from somewhere on planet earth. Well guys. I hope you've had a good month and from all hundred episode last month. I hope you enjoyed it and hope. It was very informative now. What happened this last month. Since i spent he lost. And i wanna start straight away with The ufo phenomena with the government saying they were gonna give us some insight into what was going on while this report that they're supposed to be sending to us has finally come by the things from the guardian. The us government report finds. No evidence are repeat no evidence of. Ufo's no evidence a tool basically ufo's were avian or extraterrestrial but they're not ruling downs. So that's what they say. Us intelligence authorities have not found any evidence that unidentified flying objects seen by navy pilots in recent years were otherworldly etienne spacecraft but apparently did not rule it out either talking about these black and white images that will take him from the plains One was nicknamed the tiktok. Ufo officials cannot explain the strange movements in skies continue to baffle. The united states. That train scientific establishment. The new york times has reported based on information from senior administration officials who briefed on the outcome of a much-awaited government assessment of these phenomena report finds that overwhelming majority of more than one hundred twenty sightings in the past. Twenty years did not come from any us military or other government. -nology officials told newspaper. This finding appears to ruled out the possibility that navy pilots were made who made reports about aerial phenomena have potentially come across technology from Initiatives that the government was trying to keep secret ex. Senate majority majority leader harry reid on usa who's Said basically report. so he's he's he's saying that there's to be more to it than often. Oj so eat. Basically saying is is that we've got this stuff you need. Another government is testing it in the navy sees it con on was going on because they don't own any bounce it or it is actually extraterrestrial either way if his back engineered than scott. Come from somewhere. So it's got to be from a downed spacecraft. You wanna call alien. Et whatever extraterrestrial so either way whether those videos that we've all seen you know send around the world either. They will control their by extraterrestrials on. The navy picks up on the cameras or it was another government within the government testing them and that was also back engineered foam originally alien spacecraft that crush at some point in the past. So i don't know. I wasn't expecting flawed village v. I put up on facebook page that we will wait in some sort of confirmation. But i'm pretty disappointed with this to be honest with you. I don't know what else to say about it really. I have been in talks a mix by confu his full. There is Having to put this group of Professional people are a hundred in total the around the world On this one man that controls all. They're all different nationalities we've got. I believe to hear new k. So what is that ex military. So they're retied admirals mejia's pilots that people of distinction We got scientists professors in here. You know there's a whole new genre that will re high-calibre type of people and what they've done is they've got together in this sort of like it'll group little one hundred emmental. But they got togetherness and they've spread out across the woes. of course they communicate via skype and fed. Won't they do basically is they look into a story. We stay find very interesting. Anelle a scale out in the field and trying to figure out what was going on. Basically like i used to do when i was younger. I used to go to people's houses at seeing strange stuff multi-use i'll take the data from that and then they'll go back in. They got laps. They can still use and they got stuff high money they can do this and then basically see well they can get out of it what. I actually spoke shoe. The guy that runs as name. They've sent me stuff the icon show on on the internet. I mean they sent it to me and an icon share so unfortunate. Because i want to see stuff is just amazing. I mean especially as it's been used like flare guns and stuff like very expensive flare guns. They've coal kroft extraterrestrial cross literally falling. You know all aeroplanes. Scali seven thirty seven for example was being funded by somebody Three what anyway so doing all this technology basically how them was they me through facebook and i haven't been following one of them without realizing he said ratio arkansas. You're doing the right thing you on track in up. Because i've been told by. Infrared be talked about night vision. He told her about flag. Guns forward looking infrared that code Off its planes and helicopters and stuff where you can buy a hand held once. Will that us military which is about twenty thousand dollars apiece on the coast Money they can get the technology in get the stone so anyway they sent me that an unknown i spoke to this chap who runs it a wife. I found him through. This guy. is this video. Hoping he'd get back to me and he did so. I asked him if i could skype pin any said show so i scraped him for our in fact nearly two hours over an hour. Nearly two hours on we had a great shot at one point. Three he's gonna have to guy because there was a tornado in the area but luckily it didn't go way. He was living so we could carry on tool came. And he said to me that that tiktok uso was given off some sort of plasma sort of distortion around it and he reckons that was to do with propulsion. But a whole thing was just amazing. I mean they was rail. You know it wasn't fate. His far as he was concerned it wasn't another government back engineered. It thinks this was extraterrestrial bankruptcy. You casino. he's not one hundred s but he thinks it is on. It came from c. Identify where they are. She said but decent is coming out of the into the and at one point to them. and then that was only one. We only see one account was to begin with. I know basically playing with they will playing with these teams. A spoke to the guy that was on the nimitz at the time. Who was on the radar. Skype told the f. eighteen Turn around go back because they were gonna do something clayton different on track these. Ufo's that eventually became one and they were basically toying with them. What they did was the f. Eighteens was think about forty. Five thousand feet The other one was on the deck because what they were trying to do because like i. They were playing with the middle. They've gotten leave the place so was high woman's low and they were trying to sort of chop with it to barely get costa. Look this thing but it kept just shooting away war time. They couldn't catch up with it and when they did catch up with it they only go that little bit Shoot off again. This thing was phenomenal. I mean the speeds sky was just crazy. A one point is just skipping over the water but these things do come from the water. I do believe that one of the pilots that they actually dive into the water. So they see these. Things are real Ninety nine cents sitting there extraterrestrial if not the definitely but continued but now. I think that idea. This was done by another government. Seniors was actually extra treasury on. Show something someone was controlling that it was definitely being intelligently controlled by something whether there was someone inside. It i de percy doesn't that was. i didn't think it was big enough. Even for little. E t to the insight. I think it was a drone controlled by an eighty that was maybe in space or under the sea and it was just toying with the. Sat's so anyway I put up on my facebook page. Facebook annual seat up there now. The next thing i wanted to talk back is missing full one. I know i keep on about sufism on business. But i think this Southern you should hear now. I'm looking at my facebook page right now and it's lost post. I put out june underweight achieve. I put please watch this video as the last one because he talks Two three people The loss one is from uk. 'cause a majority what he talks buys from america but this one this trump is from the uk went missing And then i put this is happening. Throughout throughout the united kingdom oversight people guy missing the united kingdom mysteriously but david politis is said in fact in the last fifteen years or side is more prevalent here in the uk than it has been in the united states. When he said that i was like whoa so i suppose what he means is because the size of our country compared to america. The amount of people that we've got going missing here is getting worse and it doesn't have to be in national parks or forests it can be anywhere When i started when i very first discovered david and i started doing research missing. One just assumed. It was a marine national parks and forests. So if you didn't go into any of those places you know it can happen anywhere in your car on the motorway inquiry literally at your back door. Having a sneaky cigarette it will be literally in your garden you swim. You can be talking to your friends in the kitchen and then you go upstairs to get a book you want to show them. I mean is literally that quick. An annual gone on. I realized at the time that can happen literally anywhere. This loss one Alois as name and when you to watch the video because oversea the parents of this poor child They must have been devastated but Yeah you've got you gotta watch it. is a very very strange story about how he went missing and then he was found. But i'm not going to say any more than that but videos up spraying pulling you watch it. The other ones are interesting is what they have the chops soldier who went missing so but these people i mean the one the u k. He was a young chap but he was brilliant. He i from what i can remember. He was a christian and they all seem be by the way which is old but they. They will seem to be devoted christians or a practice christianity Which is interesting. I think they think. I think that's interesting Under russo berlin at something they got a brilliant mind or that very clever in certain subjects so in other words that doctors nurses dentists that ministry that you know they seem to have a very good Background they along have led his off to the names. They are professional people but they have a purpose and they're very good at what age do is only these types of people again missing. You know. I don't want to stop putting people into categories but you get my point what i'm trying to say. They seem to be very particular about who they take. They didn't just take anybody. Which again is what. I feel when i first started doing my research missing for one. I thought they only got taken from parks. I could be anybody literally anybody. Is anybody old young black white. They didn't discriminate. I'm boy man woman. But when i doubt into a mole from david's done on his research which courses sensor i found that they do have something the very young children being you know like five and six years of age. The parents even say about them that they're amazing for their age. I mean there's a five year old went missing again. You'd have to go back through on data Videos he was five. No sorry i beg your pardon hughes seven when he went missing this when he was fine. His old gino what he wanted for his birthday. He asked his mom and dad. If he can have a pitcher of joseph. Mary over on his seating Overs bad on. They why you won a picture of joseph and mary for your birthday because it makes me feel safe mummy. So they they go to anita average bad Every night he would cry before going to sleep. We're talking a five year old a five year old anyway to later he He go taken on the fan. Did he was seven but he was in. Apparently for seven year old. He was like a fifteen year old. You know in age. He didn't like a seven year old when he was five. He didn't let like five year old. But who age of fine asks for a picture of joseph and mary a thing of fascinating power ranges. Yeah or something. Whatever they they watched today but that was incredible. If it'd been utterly twelve hole fifteen in yeah okay. Maybe devoted christian. I get it. But some five-year-old i dunno. I think does have something to do with it. Like i said ninety nine point. Nine percent of everybody gets taken is divided krisztian. I find this fascinating. Got to have something to do that has to go to be a. It's gotta be a connection is quite frightening as well when you think about it. But what's going on. Why won't christians being taken. Yeah i'd analysis. Hayes keeps me awake at night. It does seriously. I i get to the point. Now i've done some research More i find more disturbing it becomes gets to the point where i think. Wow you know literally anybody get taken at any time. I suppose if you if you. She fit the criteria Brainy person age. Like i said in cutter in doesn't matter if you will very brainy your voted krisztian Will i can say to. You is newcastle. If you ever do go out and you separate from your finally please make sure that you've bought in stuff on you like locator beacon or something like that. If you in america. I a full a small fire on awesome thing. I that we d because nobody's have been taken with those items on them locator beacon cost you probably about two hundred pounds hundred fifty camps that upwards If you take a cell phone they do have some sort of a locator beacon buildings them. Apparently if you take an natural Beacon which is separate from the south side and you take a small firearm site on with you as well. If you just put in rough rucksack was that you should be fine. Okay you should behind on remember the take a map. A hard map until bacteria fame because a lot of times. When you're in these parks the phone. Your cell phone stops working identity. New this if foreign david Your phone doesn't always work we. She's why he takes his son. Phone soften seemed. Were the cellphones done. I'm by the way you can buy sell phones with. Sos button on. It located the tin. So that good time. And he's got one as he showed videos. So maybe you might want to take down as well. We'll get one at some point but just wanna say to be safe than sorry 'cause oversee pokes revving up now people are starting to go out. Please please please be careful. And take these things are going to take new boots to get to wear them a couple of weeks before you go because you wanna weathermen otherwise you could be in a lot of paying money. Go out hiking and on that note. I think i'm gonna leave it. I've gone on a bit longer than usual. But i wanted to put this across his. It's getting worse a lot. More people now guy missing the naveh the soul on impulse forest can be anywhere so be on your god and stay in a group in or if you're with a friend you gulf some west of the day and you wanna give picnic or something. That's falling us. Great if you in the uk contact a firearm over six or legal appeals. Take some sort of transformed the way the or something like that you know locator beacon of some kind because that find that legal and stay together do not separate a dunk up along gonna go this way you go that way on me up the other end none do not do that. Stay together okay. Enjoyed today have a great time. Please stay together. Do not separate. That is so so important. Stay together okay. Even if one full sail you still stay without person and you find the help. Do not leave him alone for one. Moment is so important on that is in. Leave it so right you speech next month. And this is richard lenny for the way he went full signing out.
June 16: Chatting with James Neilson and Smax Smith
"Goes to counting Canada across North America and around the globe, the World Wide Web. This is race line on the race line radio network. Presented by Subaru and race. On is driven by the twenty nineteen Subaru. Wwl Wrexham, WRX says TI the typical sports car Subaru confidence in motion by the Subaru be ours. Add the formula for performance, and by continental tire for what you do. It's a Subaru Canada presentation of your national radio motorsport authority by gosh. Good old race LAN radio network. I'm Eric Thomas hosted anchor, Donna Pollard. Our supreme commander race line master control. Andrew Holland continues to run the network forest this week more on that converse. Canadian Grand Prix f one finish microanalysis of inside track. Motorsport news assistant editor, and if one critic James Neilson, the only event in Canada to feature nitro drag racing the summer June, thirtieth weekend nitro nationals at Toronto. Motorsports park. We get a preview with European top, you'll champs. Smack smith. Plus more plays of the Subaru race on mailbag trivia contest race. Rap news. Quiet side of the Father's Day weekend, however, Alonzo and Toyota tops in the Lamont twenty four and no Ferrari is not going to appeal the Montreal penalty. So for race fans everywhere powerful sport, powerful radio twenty-seven years on the air across Canada. This is the race line radio network. This is Lewis Hamilton, and you're listening to race line radio. Unlicensed doctor we suggested for scripture in for one of our shows sign up for our free podcasts at I tunes. Or what your favorite podcast? You're fake doctor's orders sports, five ninety the van on demand. Eric, Thomas situates wine and the race radio network. Latest news and opinion. For y'all the race line race rap right off the top continental tire sports. Car report is brought to you by continental tire for what you do. Eighty seventh. All twenty four hours by the old name that we knew the twenty hours. Lamont doesn't matter, sir. Que- Doulos, arth limo France, some say this is the greatest spectacle in racing. Well, it certainly is the granddaddy of all road. Course. Sports car insurance races. That's for sure. For non Lonzo Kazuki, naked Jima and Sebastian wany go back to back with a victory of the classic four Toyota, after a right? We're flat took away would appear to be sure win for the team sister car. You see with about an hour to go. Jose Maria Lopez slow between the two Molson chicanes, and it was a slow drive back to the pits to fix that. And that kind of seal the deal for the Alonzo anchored entry securing the role insurance championship title as well. You know what we certainly do remember fondly Canada's top road. Racer in fellow Canadian motorsport hall of Famer our good friend Ron fellows. Multi-month Lamberty guest is a three time. Lou twenty four hour GTE class winner back tobacco no one two and again, in oh, four and certainly with corvette Formula, one in the Canadian Grand Prix. Montreal for TSN six ninety s where we left off on the schedule into an idol weekend. And we are still yacking about highly controversial finish at Bill Nuff. We're smashing vessels win was snatched away a war to Lewis Hamilton, a five second time penalty unviable for a bogus and alleged unsafe re entry to the track intern for lap, forty forty-eight that almost not almost put Hamilton into the wall. Not many support the unduly harsh penalty, some of tried with their arguments, but they ring kind of hollow to me, but rarely have had an when weekend. With more animated reaction. We all heard an irate smashing battle venting to his team on the radio how unjustly felt the win robbing penalty in. Montreal was. And then I was lucky that I did hit the wool where the hell I am proposed to go. Wolf. Fifties clover. Cody. Of course Lewis Hamilton site differently, whether he actually forced into the air on the grass or not he saw an opening on the right near the wall. Instinctively dove into it. It might have been his only chance to pass vessels, red car. Trevor white rice, Florida such great job. They was so far and it really took. Absolutely everything for me to try and keep up with them and remain in the race. Thanks, guys, sports f one for use of the clips now coming up a bit of a different spin on all of this inside track. Motorsport news assistant, editor and critic James Neilson Ferrari, by the way, if you didn't hear deciding, they are not going to appeal this penalty F one points into the French pre at Paul Ricard, Hamilton leads teammate BOTAS by thirty Mercedes a running away with the constructors battle one Twenty-one better than Ferrari, IndyCars idol, is well, after the Texas tussle they do road America, Elkhart, lake Wisconsin on the twenty third then hall the entire show to Canada for the Toronto indie for sports net five ninety the fan, the July twelth weekend, Indy-Car points into road, America, Penske's Joseph new garden with three wins, so far leads Andretti's, Alex Rossi with one victory by twenty-five candidates. James Hinchcliffe trying to shake off cruel luck this season ranks tenth in the order, currently tied with Sebastian board, other IndyCar headlines, who the heck is this Santino Ferruccio kid? Well, the twenty year old or the Italian name is actually from Connecticut. He's been very good though, especially on ovals to lead in. Cars rookie of the year standings. With very strong fourth Texas for rucci was also Indy five hundred rookie of the year finishing seventh. Many iron men devote Ferruccio completed all, but two laps over the first nine races. Best of all drivers on that includes the veterans NASCAR also the week off. We know that pole-sitter joy llegado registered. His second one of the season taking Michigan for eight hundred. CK L W rained ahead of the Monday. Some of his opponents claim Lugano jumped the start on the gas before something called the restart box on his way to the win. Okay, fine. Christopher bell wins the rain-delayed NASCAR expended Iran out at Iowa Ross Chastain thought he won the truck race. But he measured way, too low Brett Moffitt declared the winner. You know what the first time that nascar's ever overturned a win since nineteen sixty through candidate Stuart freezing fifth in that race Raphael. The sard while up in ninth place are drag racing news, brought to you by the Nitra nationals at Toronto motorsports park, June twenty eight to the thirtieth the only nitro show in Canada this season. There ain't nothing like nitro NHRA going. At Bristol, the winners, Mike Salinas in top fuel. Bob task of the third in funny car. Big upsets they're coming up. European top fuel champ, the always colorful. Smack Smith previews, the June twenty eight to thirty of Nitra nationals at Toronto motorsports. Park go nitro or go home of the rally news is the presentation of Subaru WRX Antonio Rx, STI creating those monster sales. He's always there. That's why we love him world rally championship rally Italy at sir Denia Denny start a wins the final stage heartbreak though, for longtime leader, Tanic, ought was on his way to his third straight win, when a steering problem surpised on his Toyota yeras, and the final speed test that cost more than two minutes ranked him fifth that handed the window Sordo in his day for this first victory since twenty thirteen he finished thirteen point seven seconds ahead of team soon who claimed a career-best result in his Ford Fiesta, is do some bikes motor GP Catalonia Spain Marquez as taking a giant step toward the championship with a dominant victory after a mind. Bending error by teammate hor halo Renzo that wiped out key rivals. Andrea, VC also, Valentino Rossi and maverick Vanessa's. Wow. Lorenzo folded. The front end of the turn ten left-hander on lap to you. See clipping the back in V ios do catty, which bounced into vanilla Yamaha to his outside while the close. The following Rossy had no. Where to go? But over Renzo stricken, Repsol Honda, everybody's okay. Marquez knows now. Now rather stands thirty seven points ahead of diversity, also faces in the pits jumping out of the Indy-Car, TV booth once more to buckle up Canada's Paul, Tracy will call pilot ride in the Lambert Guinea, super trophy, oh, North American championship with William hobble, and Eric current around three and four at Watkins Glen, New York at the end of this month. PT recently raised the bathrooms twelve hour and returns to competition at the Glen, he last ran in two thousand nine with cars. It's a pretty Stoudt automobile the team doing rather. Well, at Barbara, Alabama only had a controversial finish as well in pro stock bike, at the last Canadian superbike round at the grand Ben motor plex, the confederation of Canada overturned the finishing order Thomas cast as winning the original race had leader Sebastian Trombley award of the victory and pole-sitter Dylan Bauer finishing second despite the two being volved in the crash. Well, the rule save you cause a crash, you're put tail and that gave the win to Thomas Cass. Now this might have an effect on the sport. Bike points situation as leader will Hornblower and currently, runner-up, rather David MacKay, ultimately joining the podium for the second time in as many races. So they have controversial finishes up onto heels as well. And that'll do it for this week on the race wrap your questions your opinions your comments issues and stories in the news, or welcomed, we do like to hear from y'all share your thoughts and tears of fellow gear heads across Canada. Could win the grand prize in our Subaru race Lonnie mailbag trivia contest. If you qualified to win we play that contest shortly. All right. Donna pit stop. Please wants back to green previewing the June twenty eighth thirtieth nights for nationals Toronto motorsports park with the always animated smack Smith. Then more analysis of that head-scratching F, one Canadian Grand Prix finishing within sidetrack motorsport news editor, James Neilson. This race line presented by Subaru a range of a former drive this week at two local Subaru dealer. Anyone along the race line radio network. I this is been we're coming right back race. Radio. Scribe to a radio shows at I tunes or with your favorite pod catcher, no medical exam, or health, questions will be asked sports knit five Ninety-two fan on demand. Canada's national radio motorsport authority is indeed race line. Where do you network, the drive racing fiends that we are? Once again, are all over the only drag racing show in this country this season, little feature those ground shaking, eardrum punishing nitromethane projectiles, June twenty eight to thirtieth nitro nationals at Toronto motorsports park, a yoga in global News Radio nine hundred C H coverage, Betty, crane Lee berry in the gang. Promoting this on the race line radio network. Happy to have him aboard for our first preview that I tore nationals going to introduce to you a very fast and high energy. Englishman, from Lancashire not far from that Manchester Coronation Street thing. The European top fuel champion is now based in south central on -tario sell nitro nationals preview number one with smack Smith on race line radio show. Yeah. I've been doing that forever. I was told you about me, but. European champion, two thousand three's rookie in Europe became the first I was the third person to break three hundred miles an hour on the quarter mile. Yes, some big big. Hey, stream in doing what I'm doing. But for this natural nationals exciting thing is for NHRA, which she said, you know, the, the Americans the highest veto to try and slow the cars down the now race over a thousand feet. That's right role thirteen twenty so my big thing now is I wanna go three hundred mile an hour in three seconds two thousand feet. So that's my next. And really they only milestone left in my career. That is as soon doable, and it'd be testing in my home tried to do forty four point one at tune eighty six miles an hour. So so, so he's pie-in-the-sky to do it. Right conditions in a little bit lady. Lochen we go. The equipment to get into that, that envelope. You're talking about. Yeah. Don't tell us why. Well, because the car the car's already donated. Like I said, not same Corey went four point one tune eighty six I beat Toni Schumacher's, eight time world champion dot car. So, so now we lie more new parts on the car and then tests and he's gonna little bit quicker. He's going to the four zero range, so that's almost three point nine nine. And so we just wanna break three hundred miles an hour, just to say, we've donate tracks. And you know when when you're doing, it's essentially an exhibition event and it's you know some people call it match racing. What have you? But if you're looking to hit those big numbers, you're going to have this thing sent on kill aren't you? Sound fights. It can be really true full. He's when he gets to this level of this point hard Tabacchi down gosar window become so small be right wrong that you cone, just say, oh, just give it a little bit less nitro, and everything because they so much dial into it with all the won't boy with the detail. Gets crazy. But mean we I mean we're all volunteers, and we've got huge passion for the sport. You know, doing what we're doing. And you know, this is the next biggest things where it's all confirmed, whether Lee and with, you know, with, with the team that we're going to certainly give it a try, you know, Coppola people who come on board to help us is sports exchange, which is a new company, not should be exciting 'cause they're hoping to go global. So this is kind of. Tasted drag race. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, we got all sorts going on. Well, listen, it was funny because it was watching an old piece of nature, a national event footage from somewhere and you involved in it in the announcer. I think it was Mr. fry cities, e you're smack Smith coming down from Canada, and I'm thinking with an accent like yours Canada's next, not your native country, Mr. fry. So tell us everybody. How did someone from your neck of the woods, get involved with nitro drag racing? It's a bit of a story as mainly about my longevity. You know, I'm just a straight Kate. I, you know, apart from fixing cars acclaim wind is did, whatever I need to do to get racing and started ride just like everybody else, right? From streetcars to little altered, and I have my first taste of supercharge car in one thousand nine hundred eighty five and I went supercharge, then I've been supercharged ever since. Yeah. So then eventually got to well, I say I had a huge crush mile. Call dragster in nineteen ninety nine walked away from me. So I came out, and I built my first natural you know, I don't feel carbons funny car. So I brought that out and this is all in Europe and around the second fastest speed in Europe tuned in sixty five mile an hour at the time we stood for, like seven years. Exactly. So from there, I was just about ready to give you because I just run out of money in run out of parts and everything I ever little sponsors, tiny baby, but he was so helpful that could hire few car. So me my guys with these high few car. Just went to Sweden Finland Norway, Germany, as well as England. A woman don't feel jumpy. She key. Nobody could believe he man. But. My second race. We round three hundred and three miles an hour eight seconds. That is starchy that starts the while on. What a great story. This is smack listen we're we're at a time. The clock is always enemy. We're gonna look forward to seeing you at the Nitra nationals at Toronto motorsports park, June. Listen smash thanks so much for this man. Does smack Smith remind you of? Yeah. John force even are good to Superstock, Ozzy friend, Wally Clark, lots of enthusiasm to burn for drag racing England smack Smith there. He is setting up the June twenty eight to thirtieth nitro nationals at Toronto motorsports park, go to their website, Toronto motorsports, park dot com for all the ticket deeds unique to join us for the only nitro show in Canada, this summer next week preview number two with Canada's top few leader. Another good guy and a good friend of ours. Todd payden already. Donna a pit stop, please. But still to come the Subaru Raisani sunny, mail trivia contests, and then more, Canadian Grand Prix analysis within sight tracks own James Neilson. This is the race line radio network. Hi, this is Mike Lynn. Ready? We're coming right back on race Lang radio. Send us all your money. Sign up for our free podcasts at I tunes or with your favorite Bod catcher, and we'll send you a free subscription for sports net. Five ninety the fan on demand absolutely free. Canada's national radio motorsport of not the race long radio network. I'm Eric Thomas. Have a boo at my Thomas. Tales colognes inside track motorsports news magazine on the web. It's sports net dot CA. So here we go again with our Subaru race. Lenny mailbag trivia contests. Yes. And other grand prize to win. If you qualify answering the Subaru trivia, questions correctly, your Email comments, if you do that. Your entry goes into the brake drum with a winner drawn at random at the end of the on-track racing season in November, it'll be here before you know it. Yeah, the qualifying trivia question right now. You need to answer to quantify. Is this one within twenty nineteen Subaru WRX TI at what our PM is peak power achieved with three hundred ten horsepower. Turbo charged boxer engine. I showed repeat the question with a twenty nineteen Subaru WRX STI at what RPM is peak power, achieve with the three hundred and ten horsepower, turbo charged boxer engine right? If you. Think you know, get in here. Eric race line radio dot CA to connect to enter the contest to win the price pack your chance to do that. Eric at race line radio dot CA capital. E R, I K symbol at race line radio one big word don't put a space in their bounce, like crazy dot CA. Eric at wrestling radio dot CA. Let us now go to the mail. Bag of I can find it is. And I being the Mike as well. That's pro already. Let's go Steve Sarah MAC listens, faithfully Sunday nights. Eight o'clock eastern on AM, eight hundred CK kale w Windsor. Well, Eric after another try the contest here we go. Again, Subaru WRX STI three hundred ten horsepower, engine developed speaking, fishy at move RPM. Correct. And he's able to enter that because he knows he's got it ready. Get enter as many times as he wants already know new rules like that or restrictions like that. We can like their way to on business as go back a little bit here. I was on Belle, isle Detroit both days for the IndyCar race. Can tell you Saturday was nuts. Trouble started just as festivities commence for race one sky over. Cast rain expected, all of a sudden messages, appear everywhere, to abandon and evacuate the island. Yeah, I well, the weather was crazy and still is I stayed being the idiot, I n describes and was rewarded with the opportunity to upgrade my tickets, which declined due to the start of the race. But also because I already had Primoz seats in turn three great race. Nonetheless, race to was good to accept a course, for Hinchcliffe crash item to your guest few Sundays ago commented on your preview show for the grand prix of Montreal that land. Stroll would not be an F one right now if his dad didn't know Matisse I think that's absolutely spot on. He also said that Lance isn't that good racer yet? And again, I agree question is will stroll ever develop beyond being a backmarker or amid fielder time will tell I suppose we'll he's had a podium. He's not necessarily a backmarker but yeah, the step backwards last year when the Williams was just woefully uncompetitive. It's still early in the game. I think that's the I think that's the key to this whole thing. Steve just give some time that we do with this team, don't know. But I, I. I still think it's early in the game. It is development of whether or not he's going to become a regular winner, but he doesn't need to really start doing that, and do that pretty soon, our level merit Ville maniac, Wendy, Hollis, NewsTalk six KTBS and Catherine's, Niagara, western New York. Checking in again. Hi, eric. She says just not let you know, I must have missed something I fell asleep during the Indianapolis five hundred and nascar's Coca Cola six hundred goes to show ya. I didn't miss a whole lot. It seems too bad the Canadian Grand Prix, couldn't be broadcast on radio like NASCAR races and IndyCar races are it would add spice of life for those of us who are Formula one fanatics. No, they tried that a while ago. And the name escapes me and that's not unusual for me. Now, the guy who used to run into car tried to start a Formula one radio network and it just didn't fly in last very long at all. I don't even think they lasted a complete season. It in my humble opinion, wasn't really up to par. And I it didn't work but I mean f one races on radio. Yeah. I mean you can do IndyCar in radio NASCAR on radio. Uh-huh. Went on F one. Somebody should try that Montreal may not care for stroll, Eric, she goes onto say, Wendy HAMAs Maryville minneap because of his financial background. But how else can tell to driver get a chance to racing? She's right. Really, we think about it after only a few slots that may become available to someone in Europe and you need money there, too. Don't you, she's right? Again, the answer to your trivia question. Horsepower RPM's rather for peak power. The turbo charge boxer engine. The Subaru WRX in the STI she's got the RPM's, correct. We to go see you in the winter circle of it doesn't Renaghan. Oh, yeah. I mean the rain has been ridiculous last a little while here, Wendy. Thank you for that in Niagara alone. 'cause I'm located there you probably got similar stories where you are on this network, men merit Ville ranson Bill speedways of had a cruel number of rain outs this year. It has been one of the wettest springs, we can imagine. And in the last long long while hopefully it'll get drier and get better. Sinister contest comments us Eric race line radio dot CA to connect to enter the question you need to answer correctly, the qualify to win the prize 2019 Subaru, wwl. TI at what our PM is peak power to cheat with three hundred ten horsepower, turbocharged boxer engine. All right. Let's click off another pitstop here done than inside tracks James Nielsen and his take the Canadian Grand Prix controversy. This is race line, presented by Subaru for the element of handling test drive, a sports coupe this week and do it along the race line radio network. I this is Paul, Tracy. We're coming right back on race line radio. Like when you're at a game and sign up for credit card just to get the prize. And then you mmediately cancel the credit card because there's no prize. You sign up for a radio shows at I tunes or with your favorite podcast here. Sports net. Five ninety the fan on demand. Canada's national radio motorsport authority are twenty seventh consecutive season on the air across Canada. We are the race line radio network. Well, here we are weak later. Right. And that penalty that screwed up the finish of the Canadian Guam pre Montreal in TSN six ninety coverage is still being debated in still has people like me getting emotional, because I feel Sebastian battles re entry to the track on lap. Forty eight almost put Lewis Hamilton, notice I said, almost, but Hamilton the wall was not necessary and it wasn't justified either. It rob veteran Ferrari of what was likely a win bottom line, the w bestowed on the second car across the line. Lewis Hamilton for his take on this controversy. We're going to welcome back, the assistant editor and f one critic and columnist from inside track motor sport, newsmagazine, our good friend and partner James Nielsen on race line radio, we've analyzed, it all kinds of different ways. You that a chance to look at this thing multi? Times as many of us had think you've got a little bit of a different a little bit of a different take on this. Don't you tell us what you think whether or not you thought that penalty was deserved or I think in the state of the rules. Yeah. I mean you're actually watch enough of the replays, he does make an extra move. You know, the rule of the sensually, if you go off track you have to return to, like, on-track under control. Right. And you can't impede the cars behind you. Which, I mean, if you apply that definition than he absolutely broke those rules. Okay. He went off the track. He oversteered almost ran in Hamilton a little bit coming back on the track. Kept moving over to the right. No. Like, I'd I'd love to be Ferraris PR team. Than such. They've managed to screw up so much this year, all the talk is. How about the stewards are boring? The racing is wants to fix it. But, you know, this is another example where you had a great three way battle. And vitelle Mita mistake. And then he called to that mistake with more mistakes. You know, I I understand everyone's disappointment and disappointed to would been finish. It was a great drive by Hamilton, particularly when you compare where his teammate was. But at the end of the day, I think it's a fair penalty. I mean take it to another sport. I really can't stand watching hockey at this point because it's centrally left to the discretion of the referees to decide what isn't isn't a penalty when you know, why even have a real rule book at that point. Well, I do appreciate that. The stewards actually made the call as the rules written having said that we to only do it. Well that too. And you know looking at it from the other side of it, I vehemently, I I'm gonna respectfully disagree with you. A lot of ways and. Empathize. With valley, says where the hell was I supposed to go? He says, I'm on the grass. I get back onto the race track. There's grass on my tires, etc. Etc. James. Why was he not simply trying to defend his position and, and not allow Lewis to get by him? He got back on the race track is the best. He could, you know, after making a boo boo. I mean was he not simply defending his position. I mean you're right. I mean made a little extra move there. But, you know, I in his mind, and I think the mind of myself and a few others, he simply trying to defend his position on the racetrack and stop Louis from getting by him. You know. Yeah. No. I I wouldn't argue with people who see it differently. I mean my argument with that is I feel like he already lost his position when he went off the track. Guy though he's defending its position. Sure, in his mind. You like I don't think he did anything particularly dangerous. That's the one thing that was funny was listening to the radio. And there was just clear politicking going on to tell did that the most calm angry. You know, quote unquote, angry Amilton I've ever heard, you know. So, you know, for sure it was a very small fraction. But when you look at the rules, I think I'm glad they applied them in, and that's more, maybe just because watching other sports where you have to flip a coin to decide, whether it's off site or not. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. The, the implementation of rules in sports in general has become so much at the discretion of the people like calling the game that it's frustrating to watch. So when I look at it, and I see you know he did. He didn't have control when he came on the track you did come across on the right you over steered, almost ran into him. And then there was that extra little move at the end. Okay. Well. You know I get it. I also get why people who but at the end of the day, it wasn't a particularly dangerous thing either. So I get people think they should've let it slide. It's more of a philosophy of how much leeway you wanna give people interpret the rules that they see fit. And I'm fine with either. I my preference is to call it as it is regardless of circumstance. And that's all you can do. That's fine. Yeah. The real issue was it took ten laps to finish that wasn't a Finnish. That's what you really have to wait and rates have a guy who's didn't win the race finish first and then not win. I. It's a disaster for them like that. And you're gonna and no matter what you're going to get criticized. If that happens, whether you made the right decision or not just way too long. It's an interpretation, but, you know that's mine, and good anytime you. Maybe if people had applied it, and this is where it's kind of catch twenty two. I see where you're coming from. If, if, if the stuarts that applied a little more of their own discretion you put out a pretty exciting into the rates executive, you had a confusing one. I made that same point. Two is too bad that, you know, the first guy across the line said didn't win the race in in, in a bunch of guys. Looking at monitors in a room decided to finish racing. You never wanna see it happen that way. But I guess it gets down to the to the old adage, no matter what level, you're racing at as low as long as you enforce the rules consistently. And within full letter of the rule. But as you say is somebody mentioned, maybe Charlie whiting still around. You may have let that go, you never know. But as you say, it's, it's up to the interpretation, and there's various ways of looking at it, I suppose it there's a positive in this here we are a week later. Maybe I'm squeezing the last little minute bit of toothpaste out of the two here but we're a week after this race. And we're still yacking about it and people are still talking about it. So I suppose, that's a good thing for have one isn't it? Good. Goater bed. You know, there's been an uncharacteristically boring couple Canadian ground pres recently. That's true. And the track was on such a run with so much exciting stuff. And, you know, historically, there's been so many I at that track of the first use of a safety, Carl sorts of, you know, people earning their first wins, like, you know, Johnny Lee, and Robert could be a lot of like fan favorites. Maybe not had the most success. And you know, it just it's a track that seems to, you know, help, you know, I think one of the things is, whether it's always different sometimes you get beautiful races. Sometimes you get wet ones. I think it Jensen Button's race there. Years ago from Clarin. No, it's just nice to see Tanta throw a wrench in things again, what it does predictable. It's not. So stayed, you know. Absolutely. James Neilson, by the way, this editor of inside track motorsport news time about that. Controversial finish to the the week ago, Canadian Grand Prix lesser queasy Villanova Montreal vols talking about this. It's a wrong world. This is not the Formula one. I love blah, blah. Some of you'll even speculating he may not even be on the grid next year. I don't know what his contract situation is for. Are you probably know that better than I do? But as he going to be delusion to the point that he doesn't wanna compete anymore, or is that just way way over the line? Cutted ejecting position. He's in after the success had. I mean, I'm sure there's a lot of drivers and people in general who aren't really going to sympathize with the one that part given the success had. But at the same time so much of it self inflicted by mean. This is a perfect example for every mistake for Ari makes the TELMEX and this is one of the first weekends, where you were sitting there thinking, wow. They've really pulled it together because they were fast. Absolutely. I mean Hamilton like Heather had a great race. I think that the finish also takes away from that when you look at his performance, relatives teammate the fact that he was able to get his nose in there with those Ferraris was fantastic. He was definitely the stronger team all weekend. They were again in a great position all of a sudden the mistakes creep in. Understand that too, before we run out completely at a time. Thank you for your visits. Great. I mean, it would be pretty boring if we all agreed with one another all the time, but I mean it's, it's this sport. And every once in a while, there's a little bit of controversy to get people yak. And that's good. And that's, that's always a good thing to talk about subscribing to the stapled monster. My friends at inside track motorsport news will be mad at me and they didn't ask how to subscribe to the magazine. Subscribe to both inside track dot my sub dot CA, our next issue coming up is going to have all sorts of coverage of the opening races of the Canadian season. Victoria day speed fest coverage from the five hundred Canadian Grand Prix. We had Jeff Papun there and yeah, that's the best way to go. Thomas tails on there, too, isn't there, I think, so they was calling as well. Don't have to subscribe to find out. Sure. James, always enjoy these chats. Always really doing. Great to have you. Contributor on the Formula one scene. Thank you very much for the time and no dealt will be talking about another piece of controversy before the season's all done. Thanks for the time, buddy. For something. Not related to fry messing up. That would be a refreshing change. Thanks, james. All right. Thank you. Enter and Formula, one specialist inside track motorsports news. Good guy, James Neilson, who thinks fedel deserved the time penalty in Montreal that ultimately cost him the win of the Canadian Grand Prix as it turns out, because, you know, or here for our is not going to appeal the decision market. Although as a controversial benchmark of a twenty nineteen f one season already done. And let's lay out for our final pitstop, and we're gonna come back for the last laugh, next week, show rundown, and more. This race line presented by Subaru powered with heart. Punting WRX STI fourteen time Canadian rally manufacturers champion on the race line radio network. This is Travis Strada. You're listening to race line radio. Subscribe to a radio shows at I tunes or with your favorite podcasts. To man man's sports. Five ninety fan on demand. Eric Thomas race Len across Canada on the Goodell race line radio network. White flag is signaling one more to go. So here's what we're planning for your for next week. More preview the twenty eighth of June to the thirtieth night for nationals at Toronto. Motorsports park with Canada's top fuel drag racing as our good friend Todd. Peyton Canada's hall of fame. Racer NC TMP Cohen. Ron fellows is back with us talk his new Moto master Phyllis karting championship to help develop new Canadian racing talent at the base level plus more of your entries for the Subaru race. Lenny mailbag trivia contests but wind checkers fly. We say goodbye, Hugh Norma's race line. Thanks going out to smack Smith and TMP media. James Neilson inside track. Motorsport news Sebastian metal Lewis Hamilton and skysports at one, thanks supreme commander. Donna Pollard and Andrew Holland for production and operational excellence. So from all of phrase line radio. I'm Eric Thomas song. Everyone race line coast to coast the race line radio network. Presented by Subaru has been. Driven by the Subaru WRX and WRX. Sti Subaru confidence in motion. You can learn more at Subaru dot CA by the Subaru VR's Ed, but twenty nineteen race line radio network special events summer, cruiser, and by continental tire for what you do. Taught you on again next week right here on race line radio.
Dose of Ether #27 - Sardex - Giuseppe Littera
"Well entering guy podcast network. Either is the perfect drug for las vegas in this talia. Leventhal fresh meat come up so they put us through. The turnstiles turned us loose inside <music>. Welcome and thank you for joining joining me on another episode of dose of ether. This is your host lucian and this week joining me is just cepa lita data from sar dex hydro cepa loosen. Thanks for having me. It's great having you on <hes>. This is a real special treat for me. I know what starbucks has been doing. I've followed your work for about five years <hes> but i bet this is a complete completely. New <hes> aspect that most people in the crypto currencies space haven't haven't really been exposed to so. I'm really excited to talking with you about your experience. So do you wanna give us a brief overview about what's <unk> is doing and then will come back and we'll talk about how you got into space and how you've developed because i'm super excited about the concept of what you're doing and my listeners are sure to hear why our okay so <hes> little intro <hes> sorry dex <hes> as a local complementary currency <hes> which <hes> we've been operating now <hes> since ten years and we are based in <hes> sarah sardinia <hes> which is an island <hes> in the middle of the mediterranean sea <hes> belongs to easily and we don't see you rope and yeah so basically <hes> what are the <hes> does <hes> is that <hes> eat provides <hes> s._m._e.'s ah first and foremost local s._m._e.'s and sole-traders either <hes> retailers <hes> with a <hes> digi talk complementary currency account so <hes> through these account owned companies get to buy and sell goods and services without the use of euros <hes> and <music> <hes> the striking aspect is that <hes> these currency <hes> our if we want to be <hes> more precise <hes> this form form of credit is <hes> generate is backed first by the productive capacity of local businesses so the key criteria we <hes> and the key question we ask <hes> perspective. <hes> members of the network is if all of their production capacity is being currently absorbed by the euro market by the normal economy <hes> <hes> if it is not which is most likely the case <hes> then <hes> there's an opportunity for them to join the network twerk and trade they <hes> they productive capacity. We've <hes> right now. It's <hes> four thousand <hes> other <hes> <hes> <hes> estimates on the island and <hes> basically <hes> if you if you want a concrete example <hes> <hes> any then these as has an appointment book if <hes> appointments are not booked <hes> the dentist is basically paying for all of its cost aust- <hes> the electricity et cetera et cetera but he's basically losing money now these these where are combing the dentist by joining the network that pork commits a <hes> amount expressed in in in starbucks and by the way started does not fluctuate it. It is one to one with the euro <hes> so the dentist might say in the next twelve months. I'm happy to commit a hundred until ten thousand euro words of my productive capacity. Basically is our hair time to the network so at that point <hes> <hes> after we <hes> signed them up <hes> and they pay their fees because these is not a <hes>. It's a free service. <hes> we do charge a subscription fees <hes> to keep the network up and running and <hes> once and <hes> the dentist has joined network. <hes> eat can basically choose to do two things one is to sell if he sells on the network <hes> by providing dental services to any other participant <hes> he gets treaded. Let's say four hundred subjects so after that it can spend the third day in whatever you can find feet <hes> <hes> n._c._a._a. Viewers ending what <hes> or <hes> echoed <hes> based on the commitment i mentioned earlier. <hes> us is credit line and these were things really really gets interesting. Because the moment the then feast please <hes> buys. Let's say goes grocery shopping and spend fifty bucks is account goes from zero to negative negative. It goes to minus fifty. The grocer account goes plus fifty at that very moment the dentist as being creating tarred next credit and the moment e goes from minus fifty be back to zero or over zero is basically repaying is that to the community not a single member but the whole community so it's basically a currency. It does not a true interest. There is no interest in the system at all <hes> it functions mostly as a means of exchange <hes> it. It's very not common kalman that is used as star value also because sard next are not meant to be converted back and forth into do you rose started next are meant to be created and destroyed through trade among s._m._e.'s among small companies or or even medium companies and for the purpose of keeping the local economy alive <hes> the only objective ear is two key to to keep trading among <hes> <hes> companies that are in proximity <hes> even <hes> <hes> when <hes> the official <hes> economy traditional economy <hes> where all these companies also operate <hes> <hes> gets into trouble nice so a good way l. u. <hes> to american listeners would it be accurate to to say that it's a local currency of sort. Yes yeah i would say so <hes> our local mutual credit system if we want to be very very precise who is the principal. Your is mutual credit. Okay all community credit yorker and a local currency is is <hes> the sex unit of account <hes> transferable from one member to another oh yes oh yes i mean the <hes> the members can credit and debit each other as as as a normal <hes> normal transactions they just use our own up as opposed to <hes> whatever the visa network or <hes> a bank payment and often <hes> we also have companies who use and do <hes> blended payments as we call them <hes> so <hes> where <hes> <hes> you know part of the <hes> invoice is settled in you rose through normal channels and another part these settled inside the through <hes> the up are the the web up yep <hes> so <hes> when you say hey that is valued at one euro and it's stable <hes> how is there any kind of mechanism that guarantees the the stability <hes> or is it simply the fact that members in the union <hes> accept it like a dollar so therefore it's exchange it's exchanges value is essentially a dollar what keeps it from shading or depreciating relative <hes> <hes> yeah the teen year is is that <hes> since there is no convertibility so <hes> there is no secondary market. There is no price discovery in classical trip. If the currency <hes> juggle right <hes> air <hes> saturday is to the euro <hes> <hes> unit of account by <hes> by the members <hes> because for <hes> simplicity reasons mostly <hes> because they don't need to think even bother about both <hes> hoping that <hes> the balance the today we will not be worth a will be worth more tomorrow <hes> in in in in terms of stability <hes>. I mean i could talk hours. There's about the euro and it's people's and then these problems but as being a fairly stable <hes> so far fairly stable currency princi- and so it's it's purely voluntary and and <hes> it's purely <hes> <hes> an agreement <hes> to treat units <hes> as such because there is no <hes> <hes> deposits in a bank. Thank all or collateral <hes> in terms of i don't know <hes> whatever acids it's a convention invention yeah and it's also easier yep and it's also because the people who offer services in return for starbucks artifacts for example <hes> are themselves pricing the services the same in euros and sardonic as well so the way that the currency he is minted to use cryptocurrency parlance yeah similar to <hes> someone essentially providing these goods or services <hes> but it you simply change how the payment is settled instead if you offer payments for goods and services in exchange for sarawak's artifacts instead of euro you keep the prices the same <hes> so it's correct it's simply a unit of account that creates a feedback back loop within the local community so cora four before we start exp- talking more about the economics of this because i find it really fascinating <hes> let's <hes> let's talk a bit about you and walk you into <hes> into this and how'd you get involved experimenting experimenting with <hes> economics <hes> the that's a great question <hes> well initially was just this child's as i am <hes> i i studied languages modern languages <hes> and in england and germany germany <hes> i was very lucky to have these opportunity while also was working there <hes> and <hes> in two thousand seeks <hes> we the friend in leads <hes> <hes> stumbled upon a deal <hes> um on on i think it was a video that was before the youtube acquisition <hes> called the money masters and the money must have a <hes> quite quite strong harsh somehow i would say even conspiratorial <hes> type of documentary on the history of money now <hes> that got me and bureau. That's the name of my then flatmate automate. Who's now a co founder in our ex. <hes> got me very very deep into a robbie paul that <hes> most so people who and <hes> awhile also familiar with with with keep the currencies tend to fall into or actually i mean i started digging through the of money <hes> these three of credit history of trust basically <hes> and easter your view woman's woman's because i then discovered that there is a very intimate relation between writing memory and money <hes> <hes> that for the goes as far as like five thousand years back <hes> the first sees in iraq <hes> like if it's the clay tablets those guys invented where basically the first version <hes> of of money and writing in <hes> at the same time <hes> and <hes> in in these like jordan need to the history of of these arrangements and agreements and <hes> and i kind of got into <hes> the beat where <hes> i try hey to find a positive examples <hes> outside of the <hes> orthodoxy we are or let's say does stop start to score economics <hes> in particular in the in particular neoliberal economics. That's well we we have <hes> many people call it also the washington consensus <hes> and the war created after bretton woods and after a nixon draw <hes> the party with gold and dollars became <hes> pure fiat currency for instance and and <hes> from five thousand years ago to today <hes> i believe and i and i found many examples <hes> some very small awesome bigger of communities who in order to survive sometimes even thrive came up with the regional solutions <hes> to <hes> the problems are financed <hes> and <hes> and basically by i studying all of these <hes> basically three so from two thousand and six two thousand nine <hes> at one point after ah after the lemon <hes> collapse <hes> we felt the urge to do something <hes> to to help uh small and medium companies <hes> that where <hes> we we knew and he then happens <hes> <hes> that they were <hes> going to be affected by very strong credit crunch i would even call it credit rationing or freddie freddie repression <hes> that that came <hes> once the european interbank market froze after lebron <hes> <hes> <hes> failed like the ripple was <hes> that <hes> six thousand kilometres are maybe four thousand kilometers from new we are <hes> you add companies being denied working happy not even like investment copies of working though for reason that they they weren't <hes> even like responsible for <hes> because of solvency issues of the banks <hes> so <hes> coming back to what what all of these elements so <hes> the emergency situation of of of the great financial crisis <hes> sparked the the wheel are let's say the the madness <hes> <hes> trying to build a web web based inter will say internet enabled because without internet you would not have our <hes>. Did you tell uh economic space and economic. Ah olympic credit <hes> network <hes> that has no paper knows that that leaves on on a on a server <hes> to alleviate or meaty gate the problem that small businesses where going to face and that's what we we did so we started the company in two thousand nine and <hes> we just <hes> start to work <hes> um and we started with a very very ugly platform and that we <hes> gradually evolved and that's let's see the volving and <hes> and i am definitely very very interested in many <hes> <hes> distribute these he's ledger uh projects and technology and and possibilities and i'm looking into them for the future of of what is been doing because <hes> i believe it could add <hes> some more <hes> adopt ability eighty <hes> and might also remove some of the structural problems that <hes> complementary currencies <hes> <hes> that were built before <hes> two thousand nine. That's our k. is in two thousand nine <hes> faith because you know it's not <hes> <hes> super easy to to to keep <hes> thousands of companies working together or even not <hes> sometimes not fight deal <hes> in in small market like so denia generate trust in the meanwhile <hes>. I hope to to have given anything clear. Just this dig deeper. Yes it's <hes> it's very clear and it's also refreshing <hes> working in the crypto currency space hearing about a company that first of all <hes> they you've built a big community a you have <hes> if i remember correctly four thousand companies in your <hes> in your network was <hes> and we also <hes> let me have a little bit more because we also following the request and then the needs of those <hes> companies. We also included <hes> workers. There's ars around <hes> two thousand five hundred employees. I am one of them. <hes> receive <hes> benefits. It's are sometimes part of their salary in inside the ex <hes> and <hes> recently we've also opened up to consumers <hes> <hes> and the consumer <hes> way of of using decks is quite <hes> interesting <hes> because <hes> basically consumers get rewards <hes> are actually the proper terms they assad x. award <hes> when when they spend their cash at a local <hes> participants businesses so if you are consumer and you get <hes> onboard did that's easier pick as picking up a car with a q._r. Code <hes> you <hes> basically <hes> get <hes> <hes> between <hes> three to sometimes <hes> even ten percent and at like super promo <hes> offerings even twenty percents of what you pay for goods and services in in cash at the shop and you get ah a <hes> a award in credits then then you can spend as where in the network <hes> either andrew percenting credits or sometimes blended though that's the whole thing and there's there's <hes> around fifteen thousand humor's now doc <hes> that are taking part to these pilots. It's still a pilot <hes> so yeah. I think fifteen thousand thousand people participating in pilot is massive in terms of the number of people using a payment system <hes> for the crypto currency space this that's really exciting and it's much better deal than let's say a credit card using a credit card that gives you some kind of cashback that are like yeah exactly then i might say something on the cache friendliness that i think is i mean this is that'd be g so <hes> unique digital means of exchange. If you wanted for for a community that show that chooses to use it. It's all voluntary. I mean they. They even pay to participate because you know we. We can't run these for free. We haven't done any. I feel we we have invest doors and and we're trying to to to grow these into a sustainable business. <hes> we've a social impact but coming back to the <hes> gosh friendliness is that <hes> merchants who <hes> who choose to award consumers without discredit can can do so regardless if the payment is a <hes> via credit card which is not that comedy so denia <hes> probably probably i would say <hes> for smaller amount <hes> probably sixty if not seventy percent cash and maybe thirty percents <hes> <hes> credit cards the general like marquette <hes> <hes> in in payments here <hes> and the cool thing. Is i mean we we've. We believe i mean i mean. Maybe let me speak personally. I believe that <hes> i'm not a like did you though fanatic or <hes> and i do believe that cash as a piece of paper <hes> fall for a number of reason <hes> as some interesting properties that no digital <hes> instrument has <hes> is is really works off line. We can say that it. It's really hard to track and we can say that and in that sense we we <hes> we are happy like to to be <hes> somehow facilitating the the continue us <hes> also like notes <hes> which are <hes> also the most used <hes> payment <hes> means of common people <hes> here and any most of the work that i would say but anyway a ju just a little team because you know there's <hes> there's a lot of like these cashless cashless gus less <hes> <hes> <hes> i dunno propoganda would say are like a push from above but <hes> i don't know if you know brad scott <hes> was was was a very very bright personally is is he puts it in this term. A cashless society is about payments society so let's call it for what it is now and i really like this. Take on this but apart from the as yet you're you're. I'm talking too much. I have who agree with you there. Because <hes> the technology for privacy isn't there yet so i think crypto currencies <hes> <hes> are currently overused for how little privacy they offer and the privacy enabling crypto currencies aren't used used nearly enough for actual payment systems. It's been <hes> in overlooked under invested domain and i agree. I actually do support the use of cash when it's when it's beneficial and yet it is kind of ironic hosting a crypto currency show and still being very much in favour cash but let's be honest being pragmatic. I would say say yes. Yes it. It's also because we currently live in surveillance capitalism and <hes> very often people use <hes> store discount cards or <hes> benefits programs as a way to improve the targeted advertisement has been that they send to you so in exchange for your privacy. They're willing to give you some kind of discount and <hes> essentially using a credit credit. Card is a way to essentially guarantee that you could never escape that system since credit card companies <hes> so all of your information chan very weakly anonymous is might i add <hes> it's very easy to d- anonymous credit card information and i'm sure ad tech companies denise do it all the time <hes> so yes. I agree on that crazy tradeoff yeah yeah. I'm kind of curious do you. <hes> do you currently do anything to <hes> protect the anonymity of users. I don't think you have <hes> an advertisement model. It also to say and i don't know if you sell your users data. No yeah the only the only only only only <hes> use who's that we make of data is to improve the product we don't sell are not in the business of sending data <hes> <hes> and the other us that <hes> that we make of data <hes> is for research <hes> we've published a study with yale dale and ahrvard was published in nature <hes> nasty or a theme yes and <hes> and for that we shared they thought that was him is <hes> but he was for really visas barbados's because we we were trying to figure out and i think we we did the work needs to be turned into called still <hes> we kind of figured out a way to <hes> <hes> implemented a rating come i would say <hes> rating things that <hes> reputation <hes> system <hes> based on transactions that held that we'll hopefully alpacas ars and the participant <hes> one <hes> reviews <hes> risk over time <hes> and to <hes> <hes> identify <hes> strengths and weaknesses both as node in the network like me as a company <hes> where am i weak or what am i strong <hes> as well as always might trading network <hes> is it strong wrong or easy week and also the overall local network can be there for ranked because you you can once you once you can rank the individual <hes> participant through is activity <hes> then you can basically enable measurement of the friend and efficacy of a mutual credit of these sorts of systems <hes> and then you can compare them and and that is important because <hes> we also provide from the platform for eleven other networks in an easterly like that that are like would say <hes> modeled although after us and and what's really really hard is when you've got closed economic systems <hes> and you one them to inter operate while respecting the principle of keeping local what that makes sense to be kept local ninety ninety percent of trade i would say or maybe eighty <hes> and then you've got these twenty percent of interdependency that that that we we all have because supply chains are cross-national cross-border <hes> then you need the way to compare <hes> systems that that i'm older like saturday and that's the work we did with with with <hes> harvard yale safety college published in nature is called cyclic motive in the next monetary system. I think and actually will be interested. I'm personally personally interested so i'm going to put a link with that study in the show notes <hes> and i'm going to read it after this call <hes> so does the the <hes> the rating system is a more complicated version of a reputation system correct yeah yeah i mean it it. It's really measurement tool because <hes> if we if we if i go back a little on the technology and then the faculties i mean i'm not a tech <hes> tech expert. I became one. I mean not by three. They became one by necessity. <hes> i read knock a motos bakary in two thousand nine <hes> because it was posted on peer to peer foundation which is the decide that was i would say the place to be for non cryptographer. 's where interested in alternative monetary systems he's back then and he's not caged as knock him off posted there <hes> so i when i read that i was shocked and i really really liked it but my problems with we d- <hes> original implementation of bitcoin was that it was mentioned end as a very very inelastic system in and what my understanding gene of of the working of of an economy is that <hes> it's good to have hard money sound money <hes> and in that sense may be <hes> something like bitcoin does have <hes> a place and we'll stand the test of time. Maybe <hes> don't wanna make any prediction here <hes> but <hes> what you need when you're <hes> dealing with with with trade then we'd production it's something elastic and elastic elastic as as a membrane that can expand and contract and <hes> so i really liked the idea of <hes> <hes> of the timing chain as he called it initially are which i think is better than blockchain <hes> as a share the record. That's shared form of memory. That's brilliant absolutely brilliant. <hes> idea <hes> in these very very good implementation yet act in terms of monetary policy. You have one folly see for the whole system and competition among minors to produce whatever avert the block reward gets you right inside decks. You have businesses ou our hard them selves eighteen treaded and destroying credit so you don't have a logical org <unk> like schedule that schedule is don because of trade because the dentist needs to do grocery shopping shopping and maybe in that very moment he's short of euros so he then issues are are <hes> e- get credit extended to him by the good offer because they shared a network and they share the vision and by sharing that by trusting each other in this case subjects is very much trustful as as opposed to trust less <hes> by sharing the vision they can actually be come the creators of the means of exchange that they're going to use for the purpose of exchanging v._m. Goods and services it's not just to become richer if i may or to whatever and the the whatever financial work don't seem very concrete production or consumption of goods and services regardless of what apple and the market in the big markets in the far away remark yeah. Italy is a really interesting example. I don't want to dive too much into <hes> macro economics but italy's a very very good example of <hes> an economy that basically got directly impacted by the <hes> <hes> larger macroeconomic financial <hes> powerhouse of the euro and during the financial crisis the euro zero very much acted like a straight jacket around italy and it basically prevented its growth at a rate that it normally would have have had it actually been able to <hes> devalue its currency relative to others but instead because of the way the european central bank quiz setup italy ended up kind of importing the inflation of germany and everyone's national currency stayed the same <hes> in the form of a euro and start ex kind of icy starbucks says <hes> out a way to create some flexibility within in this monetary policy straightjacket in which the needs of the local community can expand credit based on <hes> actual business relationships amongst their immediate local community <hes> built upon a network of <hes> local <hes> producers and consumers in a system that people already have more implicit trust than for example sample with someone from brussels and it's interesting how you essentially compare the inflexibility of bitcoins bitcoins macro monetary policy <hes> when it seems like italy and sardinia itself kind of experienced the negative effects of an overly strict financial straitjacket during the financial crisis <hes> is this kind of like a good way to put it yeah yeah yeah yeah i i would say one more be. I mean <hes> i wasn't in <hes> even thinking about the european <hes> <hes> <hes> landscape so to speak so i was just focusing on on on the difference between the monetary model of of of bitcoin for instance instance and and saw <hes> but <hes> coming to your point i would say that i mean bitcoin as that policy in cold and and there are debates on how to change the call and war of war on twitter on on any any like pool request on the bitcoin right <hes> and that's good that that's a b- bait and that should it gone. I think it's positive i think that there is discussion. <hes> in the euro-zone you had lots of of discussions but again a very very strict straight jacket yet that's that's wrong and we add and <hes> try to carve out some space <hes> also for personal reasons because i mean we want to stay stains or dina work here and contribute to this place i had the luck of studying abroad and i wanted to bring back with a learned and and and and and how and and right now we are i mean we're a big team of people can have a decent work <hes> <hes> and that most likely would have emigrated <hes> if if we didn't actually do what was done <hes> coming back to the situation enough of italy <hes> yeah. I think it's it's it's a fifty fifty. <hes> blame game here <hes> between the brussel <hes> <hes> framework are consensus and also <hes>. There's a huge responsibility on <hes> on the people full of easily for every in a great deal of tala writings <hes> too crazy economic policy <hes> that ah the government <hes> elected by them <hes> or or sometimes <hes> technocratic governments in case there are not chosen by the people you know so it's <hes> there are structural issues here that i've been neglected. That's what i'm trying to say and those are also drug and on the economic recovery and development <hes> and definitely don't the the the european <hes> strict <hes> adherence appearance to the commas <hes> we doubt looking at the long-term effect of such ah ho ho taxi <hes> i mean it's been very damaging. I would say so yeah women. We have to deal with it. It comes as an answer to these as the bottom up <hes> bottom up concrete example aww <hes> non-state voluntary <hes> community effort <hes> proving that <hes> if well-managed and i'm telling you managing hardback sees a hell of a job not easy. There's no algorithms. There's no oh my g. There's a lot of people <hes> working also with other people. There's a lot of human to human interaction <hes> and i think that's an element that we'd like to keep in in the future and i am interested in lots of ood distributed ledger technologies in particularly i do like eat there <hes> and and tedium as as as <hes> <hes> more <hes> <hes> invention or let's say creation friendly <hes> platform <hes> but there's a bunch of of platforms that i'm looking at <hes> because we believe that the next evolution evolution of of what we're doing is trying to make it easier for communities like ours to be joining a wider network. That's based on the principle that we demonstrate t._v. Are and and the next step is like i feel like we've been ten years in back uh-huh and but we didn't have the tech and we don't have the know-how and generally we're very humbled people in virginia and the opposite of cowboy i would say or the opposite belva californian silicon valley <hes> i dunno boosting seeing you know fake it till you make now we we are like do with them. Talk about it. <hes> that's undo it. Well yeah yeah and you've definitely already done it and you have <hes> a big community of active users and the fact that now you are. You're <hes> starting to see that ten years. After bitcoin <hes> only now is the technology <hes> approaching level of maturity a charity in which it's actually feasible to <hes> build your existing system built with a client server architecture sure in a more distributed open permission less way and i find it really interesting that who like sardinia's a great place to incubate debate this like i love sardinia it's <hes> my probably my favorite place to have visited and traveled <hes> and it is i described it <hes> basically as like italian lifestyle with <hes> caribbean weather <hes> during the summer fall at least <hes> and i absolutely loved it. It's it's such a a small but very tightly knit community with a ton of history <hes> and they have their own native palm tree which is tiny and i think it's the only european <hes> <hes> island blend to have its own native palm tree but tell us a little bit about sardinia and i manure being very very kind as i think my my fellows thirteen years will be very very happy <hes> for these like free commerce <laughter> <laughter> no <hes> servini as being <hes>. A subpoena has a rich history. I mean sardinia was on the map up before the alps emerge <hes> the d._n._a. of people if you look at any study is unique <hes> <hes> we've. We've <hes> have the most <hes> <hes> unveiled years. Old people are in the world apart from japan so i don't know if it's some magic that islands i've probably and also in terms of history like <hes> we we've. We're part of italy now. We were part of spain before at one point. We were independent like we've been part of byzantium. We've been part have to rome like it's a very in in these times americans have a hard time relating because the u._s. is such a young <hes> young nation and <hes> young country or young federation. I would say <hes> yeah and <hes> i i would <hes> only suggest <hes> recommend dini for for only for for leaving like like to also to set up op shop <hes>. There's there's a good i._t. Seen for instance in calgary <hes> eh in terms of nature is is it's beautiful. I can't <hes> i mean i'm biased <hes> but i wouldn't spend <hes> much time <hes> outside. I've i've i've been to some places but when i come back <hes> movies in love with the place but it's also as beautiful as it looks <hes> it eight eight quite harsh <hes> i mean we still have a huge unemployment rate. <hes> comparing to its potential. I i think the island is going like at <hes> twenty percent <hes> its potential. I mean there's lots of structural problems problems like we pay like think about the electricity thing and then i'll stop <laughter> but i mean we expect an activity. 'cause we produce more than we consume. <hes> then it goes <hes> tweet comes back cost thirty percent mark. Let me stay. I'll can you compete in a market where where your energy prices are thirty percent higher. There's i mean there's a dockside <hes> but i'm talking more as a as as a part of the economy but as a person i love it and and really some of the awards yeah it's <hes> it's one of my <hes> favorite places to travel <hes> every european country and city. They have a lot of pride in their heritage edge. <hes> and sir genius no exception <hes> the food culture there is very unique to and there are things that you will find there that you will not find anywhere else. <hes> some of those things are illegal like certain types of cheeses are actually illegal taught. I know it's famous but <hes> people essentially would they'll find it if they look it up but <hes> not to go into that per se <hes> i think another aspect about sardinia is the fact that the longest you can drive in a straight line is about two and a half hours right so you can almost do a full loop of the island in about four hours and this permits commits you to essentially have a closer knit group <hes> and it almost helps kind of create a a community currency because you are fairly remote and isolated <hes> from the rest of the european community by physical cicle borders and boundaries and <hes>. It's a really good place to have started an experimented with the local community currency conc- because there's <hes> your it's a very friendly type of <hes> collaboration amongst <hes> neighbors and friends wins and the type of time and care that sardinians have put into maintaining and preserving their traditions in their way of life in addition to their recipes zippy's there <hes> food specialties all of these things made for like a perfect environment for you to have started a local community currency and then you combine the necessity of it <hes> from a larger macro economic <hes> needs from either other how italy is run on a national level or how european monetary policy made it really inflexible to <hes> to kind of do your own thing locally it <hes> it was a really interesting in nice microcosm for you to have started but it seems like now you are exporting putting the model for the rest of italy. Oh yeah i mean we started. <hes> are ready probably five years ago. <hes> i mean you don't set up like a or help. People partners sometimes set up similar divorce <hes> in a day day. It's a it's a quite the process <hes> so <hes> yes we. I mean we've i would say i would still say it's a bad i mean <hes> we are still <hes> improving there still <hes> things that <hes> are <hes> <hes> we're working on <hes> to make the process of creating such networks <hes> easier because this is is not easy and <hes> is not that sir denia people do love each other that much i mean there's also a dark side to that. I mean we're are we are one point five million in three hundred seventy seven cities and towns some of them have two hundred inhabitants beaten and and just one is over two hundred fifty thousand that's calgary <hes> but in the middle like there's was <hes> <hes> there's <hes> a sense of community yes but no i don't know so then also known for like backstabbing each other i mean we are definitely through the backstop being threatened <hes> but that's the problem <hes> to give you an idea when we we started and there were three members so <hes> people relax cat but <hes> i mean we've seen the network right and we i didn't want to tell them not that there were three and then the guy was the number four what we didn't want to risk risk was telling them who was inside because <hes> we feared that you know far maybe some crazy reason these two guys ed the deal gone sour ten years before offer like you know under with the euro worth of whatever and we didn't want that to be a stop <hes> from there joining so we told them <hes> what was available in terms of goods and services but not only would provide a was up until they joined it was a bit tricky bit cheeky but but that was motivated by the hatred that sometimes you have among local local businessmen so they know each other. Yes do eighth each other. That's so funny actually because just because you're from a small town doesn't mean you're not from a small town in everyone hates each. It's like you're. You're more likely to know each other on a personal level so <hes> eventually eventually you're going to run into people that are going to butt heads <hes> i necessarily like say that it was easier in sardinia denia per se <hes> it was <hes> that the strength of the <hes> identity of the people of sardinia <hes> we ain't it a good release to essentially say like when you ask someone from sardinia. I think that they will sooner tell you that they are sardinian opinion than that. They are european or italian. That's from my personal opinion and the people i know i'd be the third you would agree. Yes and identity helps anything more. Yes it helps a._t. Out yeah and it also helps in the sense that you are creating <hes> credit out of trust and those things they are <hes> <hes> they are very deeply join together and <hes> you you found a way to now <hes> help local small businesses which by the way if you ever go to sardinia and you go to like local food stands or or <hes> basically partake in any of the local delicacies. It's like you won't want anything else. Sounds like you wouldn't want necessarily have imported food and there is this <hes> kind of nationalistic pride <hes> for example like if you're from the united states. It's kind of hard to picture you're like why would i want apples for maryland like sure if they're out of farmers market but when you're at sardinia you definitely want like sardinian per shudo even more so than from other regions of italy so i'm curious on how you extend this kind of <hes> local identity and you create a federated network because now you're working with other regions of italy as well and they have their own local currency but now you're. You're setting up a system in which you're connecting them. So how does that yeah. I mean that's that's that that's a hell of a job and that's ongoing. I mean i i'm probably i think this process will be <hes> would be taking us at least the next two to three years. If we <hes> continue to exist into three years <hes> optimistic i believe it will be a convergence of <hes> awesome. <hes> of processes enabled by distributed ledgers. We definitely need need some more <hes> <hes> <hes> interoperability the d._o._t. Allows and and business and well as <hes> <hes> the what it's about having partners i mean the mother that i'm thinking about but again i i'm sharing my <hes> confusion infusion in my head and and i'm talking to various teams in in <hes> tedium space of talk with some guys from <hes> maker dow how and trust lines and <hes> and fuse <hes> those are those i remember now <hes> <hes> because the it's some sort of <hes> a replication or actually an extension of a network while balancing the difficult part there is balancing <hes> the division of labor neighbor between technology right that then that these probably the core of what we could offer technology and expertise. He's no how as were and the other side is the offline activity that is what what we <hes> <hes> <hes>. We can't really do outside of the island. I mean that that that's the partners job and we've we've experienced in and we you're testing various models on on how to do these. The most effectively i don't have a <hes> catchall answer to share but <hes> it's about fair location of work and resources revenue sharing and and <hes> yeh yeah division of labor because there's no real need that every local community as an i._t. Team it makes no sense right <hes> it and what he does do make sense is that every local community on board this users as you kate's is users <hes> <hes> keeps relationship trust we trust and and and work and believe ring value you because that's what really matters i mean we've we've existed ten years <hes> <hes> because ultimately <hes> companies have believed leave them in in in house and in turn they believe in themselves more and yeah <hes> in the future future. I i really like the the possibility offered by <hes> by the for instance. I really really like looking into that <hes> <hes> d._a. All than any and an agent like <hes> the fetch <hes> thing as agents agents that can be like human <hes> are <hes> like agents acting beyond view months are active on beyond house south of other cold or or machines <hes> so i am familiar with the dow's <hes> decentralized autonomous organizations nations but what are agents more specifically ooh. Oh agents what i mean. He's really <hes> <hes> <hes> software that <hes> i i if i can give you an example. I imagine a future version. One of of what we we we could do as a voice interface where i am. I mean my shop up and i'm basically <hes> interacting with the network of probably let's say four thousand companies close to me and <hes> i'm getting an extra sort of saves person or purchased chasma purchasing manager in the form of these agents like the dentist same to the agent <hes> i really we love to have to spend my newly earned saadat in <hes> say <hes> holidays holy days <hes> on the cost and they're the agent <hes> help you out and maybe books for you <hes> the hotel and pays inside. That's an idea of an agent and other agents would be <hes> say you have. I'm going insight fight now. That's funny but say there's these tiny little cube that you throw in the air and it turns into a drawn and a little mini drums that digitalize and turn into asset stockins say <hes> all your inventory tori without you in putting the barco the in the database the little cube does that for you now at that point <hes> for system like ours we would have pretty shore <hes> <hes> we we would it'd be a much in the risk and opportunity for each of the nodes ena very very nice way and actually actually if you put it into the extreme and meeks the drawn <hes> flying thing that talking is your inventory or whatever <hes> and the agent <hes> and the two together basically you could have an economy where were traded trading happens between these agents and <hes> we don't even the use of a monetary unit uh-huh because we efficient allocation of resources based on having like all of the relevant information so like the agent is like a recommendation engine and the the mini drones that help you take inventory is a a better way to coordinate <hes> assets and if you could match and if you could match the two you could essentially create a more efficient asian market reaching a better utility point in which all of the resources that are available get put to use <hes> within this closed system in which everyone who has will need gets it served <hes> locally through excess capacity yeah no i. I've definitely that seifi version of it but yeah yeah yeah. I mean i think it's i think it's <hes> actually not that seifi. I think it's actually more realistic because this is just essentially looking at all of the trends that have been happening right. Let's say the <hes> rental property market the the inventory of it has <unk> slowly been moving towards airbnb right for who and why can't there be a crypto based <hes> cooperative owned and managed managed version of airbnb on crypto if <hes> if then the name of the <hes> peer to peer website that you've mentioned before happen to be calling for like a open source cryptovest airbnb as well but for many years now like for for five years yeah and i think like the big challenge there and that's also applies to as <hes> is really that <hes> like technology and the possibility and human creativity ingenuity is way way faster than any lawmaker that and <hes> it's funny like i can tell you this view on x. like like these guys in italy at the university they came up with <hes> a very clever system a <hes> basically a voucher system them like <hes> for restaurants like <hes> restaurants and companies <hes> for your lunch out. It's like the peak for lunch does that's. That's like the name of the thing and i'm basically they look at the market you'd market <hes> they look at the fees and all the problems beats market as and it's actually a very very destructive market and it's concentrated into a couple of monopolies police so these guys running the voucher company <hes> make fifteen ten to fifteen percent of the money that that <hes> the restaurants should get basically and <hes> so they came up with a very simple mark contract to basically do the voucher thing with the restaurants and the and the voucher by year without the middlemen right yeah so the the cost went. I'm from. I don't know ten percent to one and that was like they could push down below that now everything was perfect then they realize that in italy if you want to issue vouchers you gotta beat a you've gotta have an issoire swear that is a company that needs to be in a registry and in order to be in that registry. You need to have almost a million one dollars in a stock <hes> capital and basically like perfect product perfectly disrupted. The only only problem is the law wanted the issuer. I mean that is something that we've come more and more and more and then it comes in all sorts of like the law side of of the war is is getting obsolete and then the lawyers and the accountants as well fear <hes> new stuff and when they fear it in progress get slow and i think we are in that sort of moment like 'cause 'cause. I don't know i don't want a sound these these respectful to the accounting profession and the legal profession but <hes> at least for my experience <hes> <hes> not during definitely three more onto the compliant side of things than on the <hes> problem solving all right well. I'm glad you're out there. You're building first asking questions later and it makes sense suv. You've built a community built users now. <hes> in something that i think is <hes> an obvious match for the crypto currencies but at the same time you've been doing it for longer than crypto currencies have been around. I think <hes> the fact that the legal profession in the accounting earning profession haven't caught up to where you are is <hes>. It's a problem that here in the united states we are having as well with crypto currencies frenzies because we have a lot of entrepreneurs that went ahead and did something and now they have to report it or pay some kind of <hes> fine to a government agency for not being in compliance but yeah i'm more <hes> i'm i always always think that even if the accountants and the lawyers don't like it the <hes> the progress of technology is irreversible reversible once it started right so once i once the ticket voucher system <hes> ken be disintermediated the way you set it as long as the right people are in place to put it in practice then eventually it will happen <hes>. That's overly optimistic especially because i i bet in italy the reason that you need to have a million dollars in equity is so that if you execute some kind examined using the voucher system then the government guys the money to to reprimand the proof of fake yes <hes> state slash. They call it exactly they have to. They have to have some kind of equity to take from you if you if you commit fraud but that doesn't mean that the existing voucher companies aren't committing fraud it just means that they're wealthy and well-connected while if we build systems that are fundamentally really safer and more competitive <hes> and we experiment them and we put them into practice in the private sector then eventually <hes> governments will have to adopt to the way businesses current. I bet on i think so too i mean really the genie is out of the bottle and and you can bring it back you know and i really do think that in some terms <hes> evan these these time changed the in the sky shirt is a very powerful new form of memory and collective memory and it needs to be reckoned with for what it adi's and yeah and then i'm pretty sorry about the state of the debate in general but i do know that <hes> younger people <hes> we'll be probably more open <hes> than the older generations <hes> also because the older generation has seen the benefits <hes> seem expansionary phase <hes> of what i would call all late capitalism <hes> and we don't we are not seeing much good ahead and and we i don't think we'd ever enjoy <hes> or prospects that our parents had <hes> and so i think more more questions will be asked than and i don't know i mean it's like writing. It's a new new form of coordination <hes> <hes> in that sense <hes> it's a breakthrough i still believe it is <hes> and we're just i think collectively <hes> <hes> still at baby baby steps really <hes> there's much to discovers deal i think and and then to adopt if we don't want to just speak to yeah surveillance capitalism and don't let me get on politics because laugh i mean the situation is really getting out of control as we wear <hes> in terms of really nonsense <hes> dominating every debate i see very very very little almost that given the situation we're in as specie and and i might dimensional question whether the interests are appropriately aligned to address and fix the problems the real problems <hes> iraq iraq and it is both probably shared goal of <hes> crypto currencies and your work at sar- sar- tax rex that experimentation with sustainable <hes> economic models <hes> to create real alternatives that affect people on a daily basis is the end goal and essentially were not necessarily trying to limit ourselves to <hes> political revolutions the way that let's say communists would <hes> because more often than not and horribly <hes> <hes> we we are experimenting from the ground up by realizing day to day changes both in the way that we interact with people around us and more importantly the way that money has a positive or negative influence on our lives and there are lots of examples of how it has a negative impact on us but <hes> you've built a really good example probably the best example including including everything that i've seen in terms of community building within the entire ethereal ecosystem that i follow closely of how to build positive economic alternatives and as a result i death. That's i'm glad to hear your story ori- i'm glad to hear of the progress that sarawak's has made and your expansion your ambition and the research that it has produced and <hes> i'm glad to have been able to present it to a large subsection of the crypto currency community <hes> i'm also looking forward to to following up with you and seeing how definitely the exploration goes regarding what kind of technology you're going to be using using <hes> how you plan on integrating a probably any theory of side chain judging by the projects that you were mentioning running <hes> and how you're going to essentially keep keep pushing the <hes> the economic innovations that you've already ready brought forward further and <hes>. I'm also really curious to see how the cryptocurrency community reacts to yes morning to do much more used local currency. Sorry what was the term. You used instead of local currency because i really really likes it. I'll mutual credit mutual credit mutual credit the actual tried it yeah and yeah yeah i mean thanks a lot for reaching out and thanks for the opportunity to share the story and and maybe i really like a feedback so happy to get any sort so that that's fine <hes>. I'm really glad that we met even on the phone on. Hey i go back to sardinia now for a number of years and it's overdue so i'll reach out <hes> i might actually put you you in contact with some of my friends that are they're currently working on similar projects in europe and <hes>. I'll definitely reach out when i come visit in person persson greatly. You'll be my guest pleasures. Thank you toxin. Alcohol toxin jumped out <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> <music> alone among.
Cod Save America (with Wesley Morris and Dr. Sumesh Hirway)
"Hi We have a favorite ask we're doing a little listener survey to learn more about you. You think of the podcast we'd be grateful if you could just take a few minutes to fill out this questionnaire, it's at home cooking dot show slash serving. As you might know, we're part of the radio topiary podcast collective. So while you're there, you can answer questions about all of the other radio topiary podcasts you listen to. It'll really help us out just go to home cooking dot show slash survey. Thanks. I'm so mean Nassir and I'm Ashiq case your way and we're home cooking. This is episode three of our four part quarantine miniseries where we help, you figure out what to Cook with what you've got in the house coming up. We'll be joined by Wesley Morris. My best friend in the entire universe hey. He's the host of one of my favorite podcasts still processing. He's also a great culture writer at the New York Times well, we're also going to be joined by my dad. We all know your dad likes me better than you. Okay. That's definitely true. My Dad texts me about you all the time. But before we get to all that. What's investing made this week and is my banana bread in the mail I have not seen anything in the mail because I'm still perfecting but I did the thing I said I was going to be do, which is I made sour dough bread Oh and it turned out so good but then I made it two more times than it was terrible both. But now I'm making him the fourth time will be this. We'll did you figure out what went wrong the The Times went wrong yes. My laziness. Well I actually don't know what what Ron. We'll last time, which is both loaves Burns so hard and like stuck to the. Dutch oven so bad A lot of things went wrong. If only there were podcast, you could call in to ask some advice if only and you'll notice I didn't post instagram pictures most failures. But here I am telling you all. Your outing yourself now yeah. I did call my own version of me for bread, which are all my baker friends who have watched me fail. Over the years. And I got some good information basically I just have to stick to the recipe and I was sort of being very liberal with my my timing. Let's say you can't be liberal with that kind of labor. No but there are two loaves proofing in the fridge right now, I'm going to make tomorrow and they are looking very promising knock wood. Okay. Good luck. Okay. Enough about me. What's the most delicious thing you made this week? Actually, I made something that reminded me of you because do remember the last time he came to visit before the quarantine you came to visit you went to the store and you brought back all these delicious spectacles yeah and then you chop them up and we had them as a snack and Pimento cheese yes and We'll got got all these great vegetables in our CSA box These carrots that were just unbelievable like we just WANNA eat them raw because they were so good. So I made us. Oh, awesome. Yeah. Have you made how before I have? Yeah. It's been a little while but it's one of those things I feel like I can do pretty easily. I mean anyone can do pretty easily. How did you make your? Hamas. Well, I have a vitamix. So I start with just a can of chickpeas in there and I really like. Part of the reason why I can neither follow nor Creator recipes because like all my measurements are just in the quantity of some. Put in you put in some Pea I put in Psalm. The only measurement I have is it was one can of chickpeas and then yes, some olive oil some Tahini I think it was two spoonfuls of Tahini and. Salt and some black pepper and maybe a clove of garlic. Lemon juice yes. Some lemon juice from eleven from our tree and some basil. You've gone crazy with the spices in and then blended it all up and it was so good. Oh, that's awesome. Can I tell you how I make mine? Yeah I do some chickpeas. And I do know olive oil only two he in it. So it's a lot of Tahini chickpeas, Kinda. Lot, lemon juice. You know I, push it on the garlic I would say an salt but no pepper nothing just those that. So what is that Tahini garlic lemon juice chickpeas salt five ingredients. and. Because I'm an insane person who makes my own chick peas and do the whole baking soda in the pot. Thing. This kids are really really really soft and so then. If you once you blend all of that and I just let the blender go I do. I have a vitamix too but I hate you. Hate cleaning yeah. Even, the food processor cleaning for. Hate cleaning everything on Yeah Yeah and then I just blend for really longtime until it's unbelievably smooth but I used to put olive oil in my Hamas as well and I think I read enough Israeli and Palestinian cookbooks to realize that they put the olive oil generally on top and. Just in. I put the oil in and on top OH I love that. And I I put a little Atar on top of the end. Delicious and love a spice mix it's unbelievable. The vast difference in quality between homemade, Hamas and store-bought HAMAS absolutely. Well, for one thing using olive oil. You probably use more teeny and also you use fresh lemon juice and a lot of those store-bought harnesses have citric acid in it instead or in addition to which has just a different Tang I mean idol honest about Hamas to it's not whatever. But when I make it at home, my mouth is just so much happier. Yeah. I also made some nice cookies. Oh, I saw pictures of them. Were they chocolate chip cookies yet? They're chocolate chip cookies. That's why I always make chocolate chip cookies. That's pretty much I just make variations on chocolate chip cookies. So like we're all living one great groundhog day right now. But you're just living are real groundhog day because the only cookie. Everyone a little different I mean these are different because I ran out of vanilla extract. So gave me the chance to use vanilla bean paste instead of ood that's basically vanilla bean just mushed up I've never used that. So do you must use a lot less? You must why I've been influenced to go kind of heavy on the Vanilla and general in my cookies, Holy. Yeah. So if a recipe calls for like a teaspoon of Vanilla, I might go like do a tablespoon instead what Oh, of extract of extract. Okay. But yeah. So here I did a tablespoon of Vanilla bean paste used a tablespoon of Vanilla bean based in your cookie. Yes. Are you a monster? So go a million. I. Don't Actually Know Vanilla bean paste was a present. So I actually don't know he's a very expensive. Putting rolled in there, we'll this vanilla bean paste is like super powered, vanilla? Flavor and. Because it's very. Expensive also I ran out of light brown sugar. So I used dark brown sugar my my preferred Brown of sugar is dark. Where your cookies better than ever according to Lindsey this was her favorite Bachelor Far Oh really. Yeah. Could you take please tell me you could tell there was a lot of them when you add them. Oh. Yeah. Okay. Good I. also use the Stella Parks Trick of mixing different types of dark chocolate like different brands with different levels of. So with all of that, every single byte is a little different. There's Little Sea salt on top and it was great. Okay. Well, now I'm annoyed that you didn't send me any. Go both ways. So, actually for our first question, there was one that we got that. I actually thought that I might be able to answer, but I don't feel totally confident about it. So I was hoping you could do it with me. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, then I'll whole all sit on my hands let you answer make a fool myself. Yeah. Okay, hi I'm Miranda from Costa. Rica and I would like to know why some recipes have granulated sugar and brown sugar as well. I was baking some cookies OATMEAL and cranberry. Cookies. And the recipe says to US brown sugar as well as granulated sugar. So I would like to understand why they use two types of sugar. Okay. So I'm going to try and yeah, do this give it a try while there are a couple of reasons why you'd want to have two different kinds of sugar granulated sugar, which is white sugar is basically just sweetness it's just sucrose Sarah correct and brown sugar is that sucrose, but it also has molasses in it correct and that gives it a flavor besides just the sweetness. So part of the reason why like the dark Brown sugar in the truck cookies that I made is because it has that kind of that molasses. He kind of that flavor which is maybe not everybody likes but I like it and it gives it a richness and complexity. But then also it's part of what gives the cookies there rise because the acidity of the molasses reacts with the baking. Soda. In a chemical reaction that releases carbon dioxide, which gives your cookies the texture inside correct. That's really really good and one more thing. Yeah. You know how when you open a bag or a box of brown sugar it feels different. It. Feels like wet sand. You know whereas regular granulated sugar just feel sort of dry and you can pour it through your fingers. Yeah. Well, I mean that molasses is wet. So Brown sugar is actually more moist and so what it does is it also will make your baked good your final baked, good more chewy in moist chocolate chip cookies or Maranda like your cranberry oatmeal cookies. Those are very typically American style cookies that really want that shoe Eunice and the chewing is very much comes from the molasses and the brown sugar. Thanks around a question and giving the chance to look like I know something Miranda the check is in the mail where she's to send me. In. The form of Vanilla bean paste repair very expensive. I mean you had mentioned after my dad accidentally called us when we were recording episode one that you'd like to have my dad on the podcast again. I would give anything to talk to your down again. We got a few questions sent into us about food safety and I thought this might be a good time to talk to him because he's actually retired food scientist. So what do you think? Should we give them a call? Okay I can't wait. Than is record I don't think it's recording she called nude according downloading. Okay. You don't need to download anything. There's a red button at the bottom. The Big Red Button Oak. Hit the big red button got sick recording. Yes. Ari. Now we can go. Hi, Dad Hi. Hi, summation. Has Amine is good to talk to you. Is My place to talk to you. Okay, here's a question that we got from our friend Anna Sale. Okay how you to this is Anna and I have a question about sharing food that I make from home with my neighbors rate. Now I found myself stuck between this impulse to be neighborly in helpful and share things that we make at home and then I realized with horror like. Spreading germs from, my household. To my elderly neighbor next door. So can you give me some guidelines and tips regarding food safety right now like what is a good safe thing to make more of an share with people around you who aren't socially isolating with you and what is something to avoid thanks so much I really love this show. What do you think that the? I'm going to be cutting from, which has got a lot of information and has been updated. Today is food safety and corona whereas a comprehensive guide. Serious East Dot com by Kenji Lopez Art. I love that you're referring to that 'cause that's the same exact thing that I refer to. Yes. Now coming to a Friend shading the food is a very noble gesture because I also in condominium which I do that I share with my neighbors when I make some folded there. But we had to follow the general guidelines. Important thing in the food safety is hit. So when they get it are to hit up the Food I. Think in general it makes sense to give people food that will be reheated rather than food that they're going to eat you know either refrigerated or room temperature yes. Because from when I looked at Kennedy's article I remember one thing he said was that the virus is actually quite fragile. So for example, I think soup probably would be good or stews or anything that. You. Know you can given a clean container that can get wiped down and then reheated is that right? Yes. No I'm assuming that the families living may not have a thermometer if they have to monitor, it will be great but otherwise the one way to see like you mentioned about soup or something they heat up, it has to come to the bubbling like steam coming out like a Simmer Sumer is you don't have a thermometer. Not only the temperature also the time. So similar phase that Europe Clark or something to about five minutes. Dad You said that you've been sharing stuff with your neighbors. What's something that you've made that you've shared with other people in the Condo the one having shading with them? Is there a minced meat which we call Kema? Toki mincemeat and US. Peace with it. A little bit of Indian cody and tomato sauce I love Kemah I love Kema in. samosas. I, Love Chemo with Rice I. Love Kema in Rotea I. Love Chemo. Right. His Dad when you're making chemo, what are the safety guidelines that you're following when you're making it? So of course, precaution you take now anything when you're cooking use a mosque if you're cooking for other people, yes they can wash your hands, keep your routine cells in that area. Clean it up use SANITIZER that. Will. Do you think it would be safe to bake cookies or cake and share that with your neighbors you can share but put the hour on for four hundred degrees and then you put your bread for awhile. So like surface and all these things gets heated up little bit. Okay. So this is when you receiving it. If you're giving your neighbors something baked, they should heated up after they've gotten it from you. Right right that the other part of Anna's question was if there are foods that one should avoid when you're making stuff your neighbors I will associate because. It will to. Maybe don't give your neighbor Sushi these days. That's probably. I probably wouldn't accept Sushi from neighborhood. To mean, you have any other questions from dad no I feel like I learned a lot about you my friend Richie. I feel like when you see someone's parents, you learn a lot about your friend. Yeah. All right. Thanks Dad. Thank you so much. Looking forward to the episodes and podcast coming up a case debt. Thanks also to Anna Sale for the question and also for lending a microphones so that we could record our first episode. You can find her podcast at death sex and money you can't follow my dad. Wait no actually my dad does have an instagram now though he has never posted but if you WanNa follow him on instagram he's at summation here way S. U. M. E. S. H. H. I. R. W., A. Y. Anybody how many followers he gets really be stoked when his follower numbers jumble he only twenty seven two right now though okay. Good good. We have our starting number. Yeah. Okay so mean we got a few questions on a topic that we have not yet discussed fish. Okay. Specifically, we got a couple of questions about sardines forgets makes sense there preserved fish. which I guess makes sense there Preserved Fish That people would have questions. No I get it because you buy. Very. Charming. The way you said it is that the reaction that you have when somebody says something charming mock. Maybe. I really took a yeah I. Think the way you took it was I had a flashback to seventh grade and people doing nerd voice at me like I'd say something maybe like technically. Okay here's a question from Charlene. High. Sabine when Image Arlene and I have a question about what to do with a lot of canned sardines. Came home from the grocery store put my cancer genes in my pantry and realize I already had a lot of cancer. I thought I. had a Lotta candidate anchovies home already. So now I have a ton of cancer deans. Do. Things. I did she call me Sabine she did call you. What I really like about that is that it's Dear Sabine from Charlene about sardines. Of course, you love that. No, but I also loved the tone of voice was just so resigned to the sardine. Oh my God, what's the difference between the Sardine and anchovy well, they're both small fish. But usually what happens in the canning in my experience and this is definitely not like an expert I'm not a small fish expert I'm just a cook. But in my experience, interviews are salted in their preservation and sardines are not necessarily salted and so since there's so much let's less meat on anchovy. It really becomes like a much more concentrated taste of fishing and Salt Tina's which I think of more as an accent flavor whereas sardines have kind of significantly greater amount of meat on the bone. And so they're not as concentrated in fishy nece in Mommy or in Salt, and hence make a better sort of ingredient like a main ingredient you know right and less of a seasoning. Let's say so that's why anchovies are often chopped and dispersed in a thing but a sardine, you can just have on a cracker. Exactly. So yeah, I do think the answer for you like you're going to have a long future in. Sir Dean toasts, I think. Actually before you go further then. I'm interrupting you with a question from Michael to complicate things. Okay. Hi, this is Mike from Fairfax Virginia. I'd like your ideas and how to serve sardines other than straight up on crackers. Thank you. Okay, there's the wrinkle. Obviously. There's the classic sardine on Triscuit Sardine on a cracker. But what I think I would like to do if. The cracker and or toast has been taken away from me. Yes. is to replace those with some other starches. So there's a classic sort of Italian. It's like usually tuna and white beans salad. So you could make a delicious Sardine version of that of cancer deans crumbled up not into small pieces. Tossed with olive oil and vinegar, and maybe onions that have been pickled lightly and some red wine vinegar some fresh herbs like Parsley and a little beautiful pile of white beans with all of oil. So that would be really delicious. That sounds really good. I don't even like Sardines. That sounds really it's super good and then the other thing I would do is I would use the sardines as a base for Pasta. So there's a classic. Oh, it's delicious Sardinian. So Sardinas Island, you know one of the islands of Italy named after Sardines and there's a classic point in their they're named after sardines it's not the other way around. Maybe, it's around okay I. Don't Know Do. I'm guess it's the other way around. Well, anyways sardines and Sardinians go hand in hand. Okay. I don't know which direction. But is a Boston they're called. Zara Day. Day and you could make like a fishy tomato pasta. I won't talk about that because I think you could probably figure that out yourself with like garlic and Chili flakes. This one's a little bit different than I really like it. You could use ten sardines traditionally, it's made with pine nuts and currants so I would start with an onion that I may be dice if you have any saffron, put a little saffron in. The onion, get it Sicily and sort of golden delicious and tender in some olive oil, and then if you have the patience to toe, some nuts do that otherwise throw the pine nuts into pan. So they can cook along with onions, crumble some sardines in their if your current Oria raisins are already like moist in delicious just throw them in otherwise maybe rehydrate them in some warm water squeeze out that water at dot in. And if you have some fennel seeds and Chili, flakes could grind those up and put those in tossed that with. Any freshly cooked. Delicious. Dry Pasta. I would maybe put in a little squeeze of lemon juice or white wine right at the end, add some acid and shower with parsley, and even if you wanted to some secret parmesan cheese because traditionally. Cheese and fish are not found in the same pasta but I think you could sneak some in and it would be so good. That's a really classic Pasta that I love. If you don't WanNa, make it with Pasta, you can actually roast slices of cauliflower and make that same sardine. Currency Pine, nutty chilly thing, and sort of spoon the cauliflower that would be a delicious combination and somewhat traditional to well, it's really yummy and I have to say I haven't even thought about it until justice moment and now I kinda WanNa. Eat It. I'm not totally sure that I can picture what Sardine tastes like because I've had such limited experience with them or an anchovy I think they get a bad rap i. mean my first experience of Sardines drew my entire childhood was in cartoons right exactly I. Feel. Like it's a thing like cartoon cats. Yes. Yes. So I didn't really taste them until I tasted fresh sardines as a cook and I only got to taste them because I had to clean million of them and fresh ones are a lot milder than the canned ones. But the can ones I really liked the taste of, and I recently had some in December of friends showed up at my house on a road trip and she was like I have these sardines. Let's eat them. It was like her car food. So she pulled out sardines and we ate them and I was like Oh gosh these are good and they are not so different from Mackerel, which is a slightly bigger macro is to our the Sardinas to an anchovy. So it's a slightly bigger fish. So all three of them I think you could use somewhat interchangeably. By the way when you will Sardinia Sardines as if it were written directly to you the first thing that comes up it says sardines are named after Sardinia not the other way around wait. What did I say you? was named after Sardines Oh sorry I already I'm confused and forgot. Thanks for really laying it on teaching me. What's what technically technically Sabine technically sardines are named after Sir Denia not the other way. We are like two year-olds. Well. Let me roll into another question about fish that we got this one comes from Isabel from Canada Hi, you too So just before all the craziness started I was actually diagnosed with the auto immune disease and one of the recommendation is that I should eat more fish to help me fight this and to be better in my body. So when everything hit I bought A lot of frozen fish not knowing when I could get my hands on fresh. So now I've got two bags of frozen fish sitting in my freezer what should I do with them to make them taste good. Thanks. Bye. Depending on what kind of fish you have 'cause she didn't specify. Did she in the email she specified that the contains cod salmon soul and pollock. Okay. Well Kaden soul and politics are all similar in that. Their white flaky fishes and salmon is not white and it's quite oily. So I think you probably want to treat salmon separately and differently than the other three. But the white fish what I would want to do is make a pot of fish stew which I really love making, and it's absolutely like fishermen peasant food and it's taking some things that you have valuable and stretching it with other ingredients. So in this case, the fish is stretched with vegetables and tomatoes and all that kind of stuff the first step to making a delicious fish. stew is a having delicious broth and since you can't start with fish bones, it sounds like you're gonna WanNa make that broth out of maybe if there are any broken little pieces or little end pieces again, avoid the salmon but any of those whitefish you throw those in there you throw some canned crushed tomatoes or tomato paste tomato product you could start with some white wine you. You're talking about the little dregs of frozen bits that might be in the bag of just from the bag. Then you want to make a little vegetable base so I would sautee some onion and I don't love carrot in my fish stew but celery if you have it or leak or if you have any fennel tops, those are really good. So all of those things throw them in the in a pot and you just want to make stock the nice thing about fish stock or whatever kind of. Veggie stock that you'RE GONNA make for this is that it doesn't take all day. It takes forty minutes. You basically bring it to a boil similar for thirty minutes and then strain it. So that's GonNa be your flavor base. What do you do with the stuff that you strain out audio? That's compost One Weird thought that I'm having, which is a little like molecular gastronomy and not very classically. So mean but I kind of think it would help make a really delicious texture in your fish stew. Is If you have any powdered gelatin or even sheets of Gelatin. After you strain your stock I would dissolve that gelatin just like a spoonful or or one piece of when she. Into the stock because you're not having fish bones. And Gelatin is going to make that. Student just like coat the inside of your mouth in a much more pleasant way. It's GonNa feel richer and be a lot more delicious and that's really what fish bones add to stock anyway. So you can sort of take a shortcut by doing that. So you once you have this delicious like fragrant aromatic stock did I say white wine there should be some white wine in there may be a lemon zest or an orange zest. The base of your soup. Now, you can do whatever vegetables you like. So you could take a canned tomato and chopped up you could do onions you could do garlic you could dude celery pieces and fennel. So if you're hearing I'm repeating a lot of the same stuff. So I would do is have some nicely chop stuff that I set aside for the actual soup and then all the ends and the bits. and the skins and stuff like that. Go into the stock. So that's how you can kind of make use of every little bit and you cook those down until their tender poor your stock over at the very end at your frozen fish fillets and let them cook until they fall apart and I. Think people often have this fear that they're going to overcook their fish. Yeah which is a good fear to have. But in a stew like this, you really. WanNa Cook until everything flakes apart and falls apart because you want those delicious sort of fallen apart flakes in your mouth you don't want it to be so tough that it's holding together and especially with God I think people tend to undercooked cod when they're not familiar with it and then you get rubbery cod. Oh No. Oh, and then what I would do, I, don't know which autoimmune disease you have because I want to. But if you can eat eat an eggs, then you make a beautiful piece of toast that you rub with a clove of garlic and you spoon garlic mayonnaise over, and then you float that in Your v Superman and you just imagine that you're on the coast of southern France with your glass of Rosaiah and your fish soup. Swimming has that been making things scarier for you having an autoimmune disease this whole time? Well, my autoimmune diseases I'm hypothyroid. So it's not quite the same as being immune compromised I. Don't think I mean I'm not no, I'm not. I'm fine. I'm just taking pills living in denial. You, know the living in denial is one of the most important ingredients to getting through the quarantine. It's true. Let, me turn your attention to another question that we got. That is also sickness related. This one comes from Sarah Hi Simenon Rashiq the Sarah in Brooklyn, unfortunately, I am home sick with coded I have a mild case. One of the weirdest things about it is that you lose your sense of smell and taste, and this is really forced me to begin eating in different ways like totally into triscuits now because of the texture an. Pineapple is seeming really good to me. So I wondered if you guys could tell those of us who are maybe sick and recovering lost a sense of smell and taste some things we could do to cook for texture, Cook for things different than taste nps I've been sleeping like thirteen or fourteen hours a day and the other day I was like in the middle of a fever dream and totally thought we were hanging out together. And the work up and realized that I had left the radio on and you were talking on. NPR show. So it was a wonderful little reverie and this podcast is the next best thing to hanging out. Thank you for keeping US entertained and inspired take good care Oh Syra I. Hope you're already better by the time you listen to this yeah. Me Too. Okay. So I have a lot to say about this. When a person loses the sense of smell which I think the percentage of taste that is smell something like seventy, five or eighty percent. So without smell you really can't taste much. Yeah. That's called a nausea and I have a couple of family members who are in Ause Mak like permanently well, one had an illness and so there's a possibility where her sense we'll come back. But yeah, like my mom's on goal has been inauthentic I think you know for decades. So, this is something I've definitely thought about over the years. It's a bummer. Absolutely I mean even I think any of us can relate just from when we have a stuffy nose and you can't taste and how kind of not appetizing often it feels to eat. So I can't imagine that sort of going on indefinitely and I have a lot of compassion for people. But some weird factoid Wade's that I happen to know yeah you are. You can say, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no no no no. I did you have to do that? Right? Then I was being so earnest. Okay please continue. Okay. Some weird factoid that will help you spiciness like as in pepper hot pepper is not a flavor. It's not a taste it's a feeling. So spiciness does something to your actual body and that has nothing to do with smaller taste. So it actually causes you pain. Like. It's mild pain and that that we get used to that, we come to love like this podcast for you kind of like this podcast. Exactly. Yeah. I would say one thing that you could do is start introducing different kinds of Chili oils and Jalapenos spicy spices to create some sort of sensation in your eating. Another really important part of our experience of eating the is Kinda we often forget about is temperature. So things like ice cream, hot things, cold things, creamy things creamy cold things you know boiling swallowing hot things. So soups I think would be kind of exciting to eat because you're having like a hot experience in your mouth or porridge or anything like that a hot experience in your mouth I'm surprised you didn't really take now sometimes, it's better to just leave it alone. This podcast is for children. Exactly I don't want to offend anybody except for you. Okay okay. Is there a hot and spicy or like a Hutton sour egg drop soup kind of thing that you might a Oh. You're just trying to combine all the experiences especially. I'm trying to give her general tips for like how to spread out these things. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. So. Heat is one lack of heat is another one. Spices. One and then that brings us to texture which is really gonNA be your best friend I. Think. I'm curious about the pineapple won I wonder what happened with the Pineapple? They gave you a Yummy nece. But yeah. One of the most important way that we derive pleasure from eating is from having contrasts in texture. And also in temperature. So you want like that hot thing next to that cold thing you want that crispy thing next to that soft thing put some pineapple on your triscuit you want that pine up on your triscuit. So I think what I would do is have your own little arsenal of crispy things that you sprinkle on top of other foods. So those can be all of those like Ritchie's tar or for a cocky or like toasted ride crumbs that you crumble up into like little teeny tiny crispy is that you sprinkle on top sometimes I smash a some almonds in a ziplock bag and then sprinkle those on yeah or I really like the sliced almonds. Thin and Brittle and ready ready to sort of breaking top of stuff. Yeah nuts are great source of at crunch for sure. You can make all sorts of toasted little grains toasted Keane was you can make fried crispy rices and fried crispy Farro anything where you get an experience in your mouth other than just like soft and Chewy is I think an bring you some pleasure in some joy I love this idea that like you can cook in a way that still provides pleasure while thinking about things other than. The sense of taste. Well, that's a nice thing for you to say because I do think that's what professional cooks are really trying to do is make food enjoyable on more than one sensory level. You know they want it to be something playful visually to look out or give you a stall joe when you smell it or remind you of a funny story that you read yet they want you to have that hot experience in your mouth. Exactly. A hate you. Thank you Sarah thanks, Sarah I really do hope you're better by the time you hear this. 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Okay changing topics, we got questions from people who have a surplus of certain vegetables and they don't know what to do with them high swing and receive Valerie here from Riverdale Maryland, I'm definitely more of a gardener than Home Cook and as usual I've gone completely overboard with the Greens. Dinosaur Kale. Scarlet Kale Levin Basil Purple Basil Swiss Chard and Strawberry Spinach literally coming out of my ears literally saved me from turning these beautiful grains into a bunch of pathetic salads. So she's got some literally coming out of her years. She has problems that we cannot help with. Far, you gotta call your ear nose and throat doctor. What do you think the Dinosaur Kale Scarlet Kale Lemon Basil Purple Basil Swiss Chard and Strawberry. Spinach. Strawberries binges, but I got to try that. All right. Two things come to mind for me. There is a recipe by an amazing cookbook author named Paula Wolfert. For Herb Gentlemen, she basically takes every random green thing. She's got including an especially herbs but also all of those other things you listed are fine. And cooks them down and so for the tougher things like the Kale I might blanch them I or saute them I separately until their tender. You Cook everything you chop it until super fine. You could absolutely do this in a food processor to save you your arm. What you chop it first, then you cook it down no, you have to cook it down and then chop it for the tough stuff and then the delicate things like the basil you could chop afterward although I think everything benefits from Saute I than a chop, and then a second saute this dish gets cooked for really long time. You can add any album. You have I like it with finely chopped shallots or onions that are cooked down also, I love when you say things like album album. Oh. Yes. Sorry. USING FANCY WORDS L I it it makes it feel like our podcast is so high class it's not high class look. This lies. It's a onion family or families. Like things like leaks would be really good in this and you could even use the green parts of a leak. You Know Green garlic is garlic plant that's been pulled from the ground in the spring rather than the summer before the bulb has formed. So you could use all of that whole thing the Greens and the whites, and you just chop everything really finally and you just cook it. You Cook it you cook it. That's why it's called. Jam, and it turns into some other thing. This is it won't resemble Greens at all anymore it gets sweet and sort of Jammie. And it just has this incredible texture. A lot of times people will finish it with. Pieces of olive kind of make it like a top naughty thing. You could squeeze a whole lemon in there or you could put lemon zest in there and how do you eat it? Is it the main dish? You can't stop eating it? No, it's not a main dish usually usually it's something that you like spread on toes more crackers. It would also be good here I on gets on a triscuit or with white beans Jesus, it would be actually really delicious with some potato. It be so good with the FRA Totta but it is something where you're like, how did this get made out of waste? Don't understand it's so good. and. kind of with a different result is a Persian dish called Kuku savvy which coup is our word for for Totta and sobs as our word for Greens or Green things. So in Persian cooking, what we do typically is we cook the Greens twice just like I said so you'll cook the kind of tougher things down I, chop them up, and then you fry them until they start to turn almost really dark and sweet and fragrant, and then you crack the eggs over and the thing about a Kuku. Koukoussy is that the proportion of egg to Greens is about inverse of what you might think of a typical for todd so it's Really Greens bound together by AG rather than egg sort of with some Greens in it, and it gets really brown and sweet on the outside. It's just like eating a piece of healthy greenness. You know it's kind of like a quiche without a crust kind of and it's also not custody like quiche I don't know how to describe it. It's just like its own special thing. So I have a recipe for Kusaba my book I have one in The New York Times I'm sure there's plenty of them free on the Internet and also you can find Paula Wolfert herb jam on the Internet to will link to all this stuff. Sounds Great. Okay here's a question from Naomi. She's also got a lot of veggies. Hi, Samir receive. This is Naomi like a lot of people were getting a veggie delivery box to cut down on our runs to the grocery store and like any farm share we end up with some stuff that we might not choose and that we don't necessarily know how to use things like turnips and big radishes and beats things that keep well and I'm sure can be delicious but I'm just not quite sure what to do with them so. You Have A. Thanks so much the last question. Specifically asked to avoid giving the advice of Salads, you don't make friends it's Allen. But Naomi has not given us that restriction. So are you gonNa tell her to make a turn of Big Radish Beet Salad? Doesn't seem like an easy answer. Is that what you want to eat I like a what is it turnip? Know. What a turnip is, but I don't know how you would. How do you cook a turnip all right when I think of eternal by want it to be like roasted young given to me like a French fry. Yeah. That's basically what I was going to say I mean all four of those things would benefit from roasting maybe not together on the same tray and they all need slightly different. But I'M GONNA. Give you at least one thing to do with each of them turnips. I would either make mashed turnips Kinda like mashed potatoes MIC, super buttery, and delicious. Maybe even with some brown butter do you know what butter is she? Oh Yeah. You do because your cookies yeah. Yeah. So it's just butter that you cook until it starts to sputter and turn Brown. You know it's magic. It's unbelievable. It is unbelievable. It's a whole other thing that's not you're like, how did butter become this? Yeah. Yeah. It's nutty and delicious. So I think that on some sort of steamed or boiled. have been mashed would be really yummy. So if it's like a sweeter sort of smaller turn up is probably just go straight into the roast I mean if it's really sweet and baby I would boil it and just drizzle some salt and olive oil in it and eat it like that. But I do think turnips really benefit from roasting with olive oil or coconut oil or any other oil that you have and salt that Browning really brings out there sweetness and they're just really delicious. So that's kind of like a turnip French fry like what you said. Yeah. With roasting vegetables like that I really think you have to obey a couple of things. One is. All the pieces are approximately the same size. To really do that thing that you don't want to do dirty an extra bowl by tossing all of the vegetables with oil and salt in this bowl to make sure they're covered on all sides then spread them out on the baking sheet in a single layer. Make sure that they're not really touching because the more space that you leave between them. The more space there is for steam to escape and for Browning to. Happen when cram stuff onto a single tray and there's just no room between. That's when you get like a weird tray of steamed vegetables not really did Brown crispy vegetables. So this is true for Broccoli. Cauliflower anything else carrots all that kind of stuff spread it out and ideal roasting temperatures probably four hundred or four, twenty five and also you know, I, baby my stuff that's in the oven and I turn it I flip. I rotate the Pan. I put the Pan on a different rock as it's cooking to make sure it's cooking evenly you'll be rewarded with delicious crispiness sweetness. Brandishes depending on what kind of radishes. You're feeling. You can treat exactly the same as the turnips if you're feeling like you just don't WanNa do separate preparations for all this stuff. You could actually combine the radishes and turnips on the same trae. I'm breaking my own rule because they're basic they're very similar in constitution and as long as you cut them into similar sized pieces. Yeah. If you feel like making something different with the radishes, you cut them into like matchsticks pieces or very thin slices and make delicious pickle alight pickle by just covering them with if you have a rice wine vinegar. Probably Yummy for this particular thing and maybe some like a mixture of rice wine vinegar and salt and sugar, and just letting them sit for anywhere from fifteen minutes to forty five minutes, and then you have kind of like a little Japanese style pickle, which would be really nice thing to put an a sandwich to eat with a hardcore tag I dunno just keep a jar of it in your fridge for when you want that little crunchy pickle. Four the beats, my favorite to make beats is roasting them, but it's kind of a Combo of a roast and esteem. So I wash all the dirt off beats and then I put him in a roasting pan or a baking dish maybe like a quarter inch centimeter of water in there some salt, and then I always because I'm a freak and I don't like foiled to touch my food when possible I put parchment directly over the beats and then foil directly over that and make a tight of a seal as possible. And then you can throw that into that same four hundred degree oven. If you want or hotter, you can go all the way to five hundred and really what you're doing is you're steaming those beats until they're all the way soft and the thing about beats is they have to get cooked all the way through you up to cook them until you can pierce them with a knife and it's like, what's that saying hot knife cold butter like a hot knife through butter like a hot knife through butter and then when they come out, you can use a paper towel to rub and peel them chop them into. Whatever size pieces you like whether that's wedges or slices drizzle with vinegar of any kind rice wine, red wine or white wine vinegar probably are the three I would choose and salt and olive oil and let that sit and those become lightly pickled beets that are delicious to eat with a salad with a hard cook bag with you know I, had earlier said there would be really good in lentil salad. So those are kind of things that you just keep in your fridge and you eat over the course of the week. Can I tell you about a beat dish that I had recently that I was really excited about No, no no, it's not a joke. It's not a joke. It's a real it's a real. I don't trust you Lindsey rusted some beets and I was trying to figure out what to make with them. So I made a tuna fish sandwich to go with them, and by the way, the ten percent, which was like a real triumph for me because. I realized that we didn't have any mayonnaise I made manny's you may man, yeah. How with an egg and mustard and a blender and oil? I'm so proud of you. It took so long but it worked I'm so proud I'm like floored I couldn't believe that it worked I couldn't believe you did it. Yeah. We did not have the right ingredients for it. You know like I didn't have like a white wine or red wine vinegar so I used apple cider vinegar. I didn't have dijon mustard doesn't matter matters. So made the mayonnaise and then made the tuna fish sandwich with that, and then we ate the beats with that. Magic. Unicorn Salt No Way Magic Unicorn Sea salt sprinkled on top and it was so good. Anyway. Yeah. This is supposed to be a story about beats, but it ended up being about Manny's thanks Naomi. Thanks for calling and I hope that we gave you some inspiration to get through that box. I hope you have some good square meals with your roots. Some square roots no no. Okay basically. We're we've lost. Our mind. Air Marbles or gone. Honestly that's what is up this week marbles gone. Let's go from the vegetables themselves to something that you might put on the vegetables. We got a question from Kim. Let me play for you. I mean and Richie. This is Kim calling from China. my question is about Vinaigrette? S- I love a good been agree. And I mean, you talk about him a lot and putting them on. Different things. But I am just really not good at making them at home. I somehow get the ratios wrong. They taste to me. And so I want your instructions and maybe a recipe or two on making really good vinaigrette. Thanks Ho. This is good. I WanNa know this as well. Okay. I'm ready. I'm so ready because I have the best vinaigre in the whole world himmy it's not even mine and the thing about it is I can speak so confidently about it because it's not mine because it's the salad dressing from my very favorite solid in the whole wide world, which is the Green Salad at a restaurant called via Kuroda in New York. And I was so obsessed and M so obsessed with the solid that I. wrote an entire column about? It. And I don't choose the like headlines The New York Times uses. and. So I feel like they. What was the headline that the used for this? They said the Best Green Salad and the Best Green Salad in the world and I was like I did not say that but okay, cool like. I was like I do agree I do support this. So it really is so so so delicious and the secret is side question before he tells the cigarette was there any kind of issue in extracting the secret from the restaurant Honestly no I just called and asked I've known the chefs for while in like I begged them to share it with me and they did and what was so amazing was that I was in New York the week after the story ran and when I went, they were like Oh we have to get solid deliveries twice a day. Now we go through two hundred cases of solid lettuce a week now because of the article because of article. That's awesome and it's a really popular restaurant I. Mean, I mean I didn't think I really didn't think anything. I. Would say would make such a big deal but it was so funny I was like sorry. So. What's the secret? So the secret to most people at home I think it's twofold. One is maybe not something most people can do anything about right now, which is a do think the quality of your olive oil makes a big difference. So having good fresh olive oil that's not rancid and buy fresh I mean pressed in the last you know year really is really what? Can I interrupt you there? Yeah just on olive oil as you know I don't drink wine and so I know nothing about wine and but sometimes, it is my job to go like get a bottle of wine for a party or for my wife or something like that and I feel like I'm just choosing blindly based on the label on the. Label, and the price exactly, and then I, feel similarly with olive oil I don't know what is a high quality olive oil when they all say extra-virgin totally other than the price the main thing that I can tell you that's GonNa make a difference in the store is to look for a date married already. I can't wait for this podcast to be over. Okay. I'm back. All right. So you go to the store you find. Someone. Asked them out. You find you find. That so Step one what step two. Once, you have your partner. No really to find data production on the label what either it's the expiration date or it's the date of production. If you're olive oil has one or both of those dates on it, it's already a good olive oil. Certainly, you want it to say that it's extra-virgin but having a date and making sure that it's not expired. So if it's a data production, no that olive oil has about a year to fourteen months in. Data production is older than twenty nineteen fall also because olive oil is pretty much unless it comes from the Southern Hemisphere it's almost universally pressed in the fall. So if it's later than follower winter of two, thousand, eighteen than it's all oil and it's probably bad. Okay. So that's one really helpful way to know. So start with that when you are able to go back to a store and look at all the olive. Oils. But the other thing I think that's the main mistake that most people at home make who are not like trained cooks or really sort of active home cooks is they don't put enough acid in their vinaigrette and by acid I mean lemon juice and or vinegar, and for me I like to layer my acids I like to use more than one form because I think it adds dimension. But that puck greenness is certainly a big part of what makes solid really delightful to eat especially, if the salad is rich in any way if there's cheese or anything in it. Or if it's very starchy like if it has a lot of croutons or it's a bread solid or you're pouring vinaigrette over potatoes or beans, you really WanNa make sure it's a cynic so that it sort of gives you a pucker. It should make your is kind of open up you know is that maybe what Kimberly is lacking in terms of it tastes to oily yeah definitely. Definitely and the Nice thing about this recipe, which in a link to it really only has one form of vinegar just has sherry vinegar in it, but it has two kinds of mustard in. And actually what kind of really weird and delightful about this is that The chefs temper that acidity with a little bit of water. So there's just I. Don't know why this recipe works it. Kind of is the opposite of everything I've always believed and understood which I don't know maybe that's why it's so good. I really couldn't tell you. It is addictive though it's so good the stressing I, pour it on everything I, pour it over just boiled asparagus I, pour it on grain salads a use it on my green salad, but it makes me want to eat salad, which is why I think you will like it too. So the Nice. Thing about it too is you don't even have to do the stop called maceration, which is leading shallot or album sit in vinegar or lemon juice for a long time to sort of tame. It's fire who for whatever reason this doesn't have that and it still works so good. So you just take a shower and you men sit and then this has two tablespoons plus one teaspoon of aged Sherry Vinegar. So in these dark times, if you don't have Sherry Vinegar, you might be able to get away with red wine vinegar a tablespoon of warm. Water One cup extra-virgin. One and a half teaspoons each of dijon and whole grain mustard. You could also, if you don't have both kinds, make do with one or the other. One and a half teaspoons of honey. She puts in two sprigs of time stripped. If you don't have fresh thyme right now that's fine. One large clove of garlic and salt and freshly ground black pepper. The garlic is finally grated or pounded in a mortar and pestle into a paste. So if you just mix all that up and shake, it should taste delicious. You might need to adjust one tiny bit one way or another with either salt or vinegar. Or olive oil. But the way I test n even aggressive is I dip a piece of the lettuce that I'm going to eat it on or a piece of whatever I'm going to eat it on in it and I eat them together because there is no way that you're really going to be able to make that judgment without the thing that you're dressing right? Is this something that you could make a lot of and then keeping your fridge or does it have to be used pretty quickly this recipe does make kind of a lot because it's a whole cup of olive oil. So this is definitely enough for like two large salads for a family you know to big sort of dinner solids and I think I've kept it in the fridge for up to like, let's say four days successfully after that you gotta make it fresh that sounds so good. It's like honestly sitting here and looking at this recipe and this picture of this solid makes me wanna go downstairs make solid and it's nine, forty, eight PM. Thanks you. So now we're going to give our friend Wesley Morris a call. He is one of my favorite writers at the New York. Times writes all about culture and movies and I've heard he's a really good cook. All right let's give them a call. I have right now three cookbooks open on top of each other and one of Missouri's and I have been I, don't have a great food imagination but I have a real eagerness and a determination and an openness. So. If you give me the manuals, I can put the meal together but I can't handle these large portion this like large amounts of food that some of these recipes leave you with it's not because I can't eat it. It's because I can. Oh, same same. s totally what's the best thing that you've made so far that you both love and hate. I had never been a cake before the last month I have this beautiful stand mixer that I had been using to make Pie crusts I've heard about your pies. It's the only thing I can say unequivocally I'm pretty good making a Pie I've learned it's gotten a lot better since you came into my life Oh. Thank you. But you made cake. Tell us about the cake I made the Times is. I don't know who's recipe it is. Clark, Melissa Clark. So it's her Pantry crumb cake Oh. Yeah. That cake so good. It's very good. It's very easy. Receive you made this? No, but I love crab cake. I mean it's Very simple recipe it's just like all the things that you need to make a good cake except she you know she is into the ground spice portions. She gives you the option of having cinnamon ginger, cardamom nutmeg or some combination of those things do you like yogurt which thing to do us? Oh, great question I used creme fresh the first time I made it and yogurt the second time these. So you've made this cake twice so far when you're asking if I had had ever made, my problem is I'm GonNa make it and then I'm gonNA eat the entire thing in one sitting. So it's to. Well that's the other part of it is like I just become like a bottomless pit. To give everything wet, I'll eat me eat one slice and then give the thing away. I actually have been that person where I've like, I feel like this is like a classic moment from television show but. I put the thing in the compost so that I would stop eating it and the next morning I was like this is on top. Really Go. Fully done. So like the only way to. Put it out of my house i. Am the person that when I'm in my bedroom, there's a little voice calling me from the refrigerator. Like semi I'm not last piece of pizza. So mean I'm the other peanut buttercup comes we lonely. Listen I hear you? I saw something about you richie over the weekend you made cookies and you made them like extra large so that you could say you just eight two or something. It was four. Nice Nicer try. Okay. So Wesley, you've made the crump cake twice so far do you think you're going to make it again Oh my God yeah it's really good and I will add more nuts to it and it keeps really well lake something I just get nervous about like eating after a week but this is not very good out of the oven. It is delicious with one day behind. Party I'm going to try it. You should definitely try should definitely definitely try I'm GonNa make it again. Thanks so much leslie. Thank you. Take care stay. Well, Oh my God this was a pleasure. It was a real pleasure. You can follow Wesley Twitter at Wesley Underscore Morris and you can find still processing wherever you get your podcasts. Okay. What else you got? Okay. Here's a question that I love that we got from. Tim. He wrote when boiling eggs should you start with the water cold or on a rolling boil like with poaching? Okay. There are as many answers as there are eggs in the world to this question. So, there is many ways to boil an egg, and in fact, Kenji Lopez all broke a whole thing about how the best way to boil naggus steam steaming egg. So you can find any answer that you like out there. My guaranteed way for boiling eggs is to start with the water at a boil to gently lower the eggs in with the slotted spoon one at a time because I, just know how to set I that's the way I was taught how to do it. That's how I know how to set a timer. I know what? One Minute two minutes, four minutes, six minutes, eight minutes I'll look like. and. It also will you know the timing will also depend on whether or not your eggs are at room temperature or refrigerator temperature when you start but I have a really fun drawing in my book that will post a picture of on the website I love that dry. That's my favorite drawing from the whole book that's a sort of an egg boiling chart, but I do start with boiling water and I go straight from the boiling water. Into a bowl of ice water to stop the cooking. But under no circumstances do I ever boil longer than ten minutes I've never in my professional cooking career ever done that. So I think ten ten minutes is your Max, and if you want like a real sort of glossy perfect yoke that you know leaves a clean knife but cuts cleanly I think eight minutes is really nice and then less than that you get into the Jammie seat You know it's good when things get Jimmy. Beats. Beats, what did I do to deserve this? Well, that's it. For this episode. Thanks to Margaret Miller for Editing Zach macneice for mixing the show and Gary. Lee. And Casey deal for their help to thanks so much to dead Dr Somme and New York. Times critic at large Wesley Morris. Let us know if you have any cooking related questions, call us at two zero, one, two, four, one cook or send us a voice memo at a little home cooking at gmail.com. You can find instructions on how to record voice memo on our website, which is home cooking dot show. You can also find me on twitter and Instagram at Chao semi and I'm at she highway stay healthy eat well and take care of each other. We'll be back soon with another episode until then I'm so mean and I'm ready and we'll be home cooking. Talk. Radio. Acts.
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"Asters degree in physiology bio mechanics and human nutrition, I've spent the past two decades competing some of the most masochistic events on the planet from seal fit cocoon of Sardana ago. Gee in the world's toughest mater, thirteen ironman triathlons. Brutal bowlen's adventure races. Spearfishing plant foraging, free, diving bodybuilding and beyond. I combine this intense time in the trenches with a blend of ancestral, wisdom and modern science searched the globe for the world's top experts in performance, fat loss recovery got hormones, brain, beauty and Braun to deliver. You this podcast everything you need to know to live in adventures joyful and fulfilling life, my name is Ben Greenville enjoy the ride. Folks, then greenfield here, I have Dr Michael Rasheed show can't say his name without trolling yards baby on the show today. One of my favorite guys when it comes to all things gut. We didn't mention this during the show. 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They're gonna give you some free. You get six gains wave treatments. The throw another one on the house. If you get twelve the thirteenth for free to do that, just go to gains wave dot com slash Ben. That's gains wave dot com slash Ben to find a provider near you. When people ask me, the number one book, I recommend for all things got related. It is hands down a book called healthy, gut healthy, you healthy gut healthy, you it's written by Dr Michael rougeau. He's been a guest on my podcast before we did a big podcast on how to differentiate between all the different types of carbohydrates, and what type of carbohydrates were good, and what type of carbohydrates were bad and a high carb diet, low carb diet, he also came on. And did a big podcast with me a few months ago about why healthy people in particular, get broken guts, and what to do about it. And I'll wait to both of those in the show notes for this episode, which is going to be over. At Ben greenfield, fitness dot com slash healthy, gut. That's been greenfield fitness dot com slash healthy, gut. And the reason that I brought Dr show back was because the time I recorded those two he hadn't yet released this book. He sent me the book. And I read it, and I've just been recommending right and left to pretty much everybody who well who has a a small testing and large intestine and asshole spleen and liver. So if you have if you have digestion, you should read the book, and I actually have a few things, you know, whenever I interview somebody about a book, I don't like to just give you guys, you know, exactly what's in the book. But take a deeper dive into some of the things in the book and kind of explore them and unpack them so to speak. So that's what Dr Rubin I are up to today and and doctor shows practices in northern Cal. You're in which which city are you in? I forget it's walnut creek right in what we you've had on Judson Brandeis. And so his his pump kind of male health enhancement clinic in walnut creek as is a cryotherapy center. So we got some stuff to do next time your on. No crazy. Why walnut creek don't even know why what seems to be such a hot spot for I guess suburb outside of? San Francisco if you're looking to get out of the city, but not too far and have kind of like a nice affluent area that's clean in. Well, kept a lot of people end up in walnut creek GATS. Why there's so many things that you lot of rich board people that make sense. I wanna do to penis injections and sit and cryotherapy chambers. So I'm going to speak anyways, though. So there's there's so many places in the book that we could start. But where I'd like to start is this concept of bacterial overgrowth, it's probably one of the least understood areas of digestion for a lot of people who get gas, imploding and think they've got whatever, you know, parasites or yeast or fungus or something going on in the colon. But it turns out in some cases, it is this thing called bacterial overgrowth. So can you define that? And then I also would like to hear specifically about how that affects the thyroid because that that was a little known fact me in the book. So can you get in into into CBO or bacterial overgrowth what it is? And then specifically its effect on the thyroid. Yeah, there there's a lot there unpack which which I think is super interesting in very actionable for people. So how the inception of kind of mine. Foray into the importance of small intestinal bacterial growth dates back to maybe five years ago. When I think we really saw the initial burst of interest in the micro Bada, this is when you start hearing all this cool research being published where African hundred gatherers had more diverse bacteria in their guts, and that seemed to correlate with healthier. You know, people in general, and so there's a lot of excitement regarding the first healthy intestinal bacteria, and the potential utility that we may be able to garner from taking sick people and improving the health of their bacteria. So that was great. But. What you what can happen is? When you're looking at things observational, those observations don't always clearly translate into what you do in the clinic. And so what you were seeing being suggested in terms of inferences were pretty much the opposite of what any experienced clinician would recommend do from those patients until I was confronted with this. Quagmire where some of the microbial research was suggesting we need to undergo all these interventions to increase bacteria. Get I was seeing so many patients who clearly did not do well with that type of approach and actually only seem to improve when we underwent interventions ironically that would decrease bacteria, and this is one of the things I talk about in the book when you make delineation between the large intestine and small intestine you actually start to sort out where some of these discrepancies. Come from essentially, the long story short is we go to Africa. We do these stool samples of hunter gatherers, and they have really rich, large intestinal diversity. But what I suspect is being missed. There is the impact of the small intestine which is much harder to assess. And although yes, there's a correlation between large intestine on the small intestine. I don't think we really get a good read on what's going on in the small intestine with the stool test because. It's right in the middle of everything's gonna hawk are to get to. And by the way, I mean that was like a study just a couple of weeks ago that showed that the bacterial status of the large intestine in no way, reflects what's going on the small intestine, which kind of sucks for a lot of these Baion tests that are testing stool and not getting a reflective evidence of what's going on up in the small intestine. Exactly, exactly. So that's one of the main premises. I developed in the book is. A lot of the previous gut advice was very large intestine Centric. But the problem is the small intestine represents over fifty six percent. So the majority of your intestinal tract. It's the most prone to leaky gut. It's the most immuno active. It's where ninety percent of your calories are absorbed. So it's a huge miss to miss the importance of the small intestine is a huge mess. And here's what kind of bottom lines to you can twist observations to support almost any hypothesis where the bullets hit really gets called is when you go to the interventional or clinical trials, and this is why I really harp on the importance of clinical trials because you can you can cherry pick and mislead with operation data and with mechanism data. But when the rubber really hits the road is when you say, okay, we have a group of one hundred people they are sick. We're going to do this in half. We're not gonna do that in the other half. Give them up a CBO. And then see what happens and when. If you look at the outcome data you start leaning back toward the interventions that seem to favor the small intestine so long prelude here to the answer. What is that till overgrowth most, namely, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, which is what I think is the most relevant is where you have either an overgrowth of or the wrong type of bacteria in the small intestine. There should be some not nearly as much as there is in the large intestine, and what can happen is you can have an overgrowth of bacteria in the small intestine and again, sometimes it's native bacteria, sometimes bacteria from the large intestine rowing upward into the small testing. Sometimes it's oral bacteria from the nasal for NGO cavity that gets down into the large intestine or sometimes it may even be the native small intestinal bacteria that just simply over grow. But the point is that this is not something like a parasite, which is I think a lot of the older. After like last generation, gut advice was tests for parasites and get rid of parasites in. There was some truth to that. And I'm an example of that I had a parasite, but I think it's much more common now is an overgrowth of activity that are native to your system. It's just they've gotten decompartmentalise or they are in the correct compartment. But there's just too many of them in that compartment. So essentially, what CBA was now the tie-in to the thyroid, I think is fascinating. And a just say this very plainly that there may be a lot of people who think they have a thyroid condition who actually don't and I'll come to studying a moment that actually found that sixty percent six zero of people who had a ambiguous thyroid diagnosis when they were re-checked sixty percent of them actually were not hypothyroid. And I think this is because the symptom. Of not only small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, but problems in the GI in general can manifest as symptoms that look like hypothyroidism and just as one example. There was a study looking at patients with IBS so edebali's syndrome gas bloating, dumb will pain altered mental function and they found a significantly higher. Incidence of fatigue, depression and anxiety in that cohort now fatigue and depression, oftentimes tributed to hypothyroidism, so we certainly can see that problems in the gut may manifest as what looks like a thyroid problem. But specifically there's a couple of key points that have been published over the past maybe two years one only about six months ago study. I believe it was in Russia. It was either in Russia earn pulling and essentially found that patients with CBO small tesla bacterial overgrowth had about three times higher the level of TPAO antibodies, which are the antibodies of underlie hush among those now, I also should be careful in saying three times sounds like a lot. But this is where I don't want to contribute to some of the overzealousness a functional medicine. I wanna be a little bit too starting. So the control group had a level of thirty nine which is considered just above normal user, the cutoff for teeth peo- antibodies to steroid autumn unity is about thirty five. So the control group. The none CBO group had. I'm sorry. So the control group had a value of six and in the CBA group had a value of either thirty nine to ninety four. So it's actually more than than than a threefold. But here's what the details do matter while that is a significant elevations of thyroid antibodies in the CBO group. I wouldn't say it's a huge elevations. Because when you look at thirtieth bodies in my experience, they have to really be over five hundred and there's some literature that supports this to really the note a clean a clinically meaningful elevation. So yes, there is evidence showing that one may have worsened fired autumn unity situation, if they have small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, and that's something you can act on in may help. But I don't want people to think that this is a huge leeann packed full issue. At least not from diploma. Mary literature. So it's one thing that can help. But I wouldn't lose sleep over it per se and the mechanism. There may be that when Beccaria in the small intestine over grow they seem to sue quest selenium, and if they're using selenium at the expense of you the host, we know that selenium does dictate thyroid out, immunity, so what may be happening again, this is more. So my speculation than the reasoning solid evidence to support this. I don't think there's really an answer those questions. So I'm just inferring base opponent b do know. But what may happen is that you have someone with a genetic predisposition to thyroid autumn unity? They develop small intestinal bacterial overgrowth that small bacterial overgrowth start to sensually binding to their selenium making someone a bit selenium insufficient and in that may exacerbate the thyroid autumn unity, so that's one mechanism. But here's what I think is is the most important data. We have regarding. Third autumn unity in CBO. There was one study looking at over eighteen hundred patients, and they were looking to see what were the most associated conditions too, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. So a group of researchers looked at eighteen hundred and nine patients specifically, and they were looking at immunosuppressive drug use asked lowering medication use prior intestinal surgery. And they're expecting one of these two really associate to increase the risk for CBO what they found was very surprising. The two most correlated conditions associated with CBO were being hypothyroid or being lowered medication. So there's clearly a high association between CBO and small intestinal bacterial overgrowth in then just to finish this thought. And this is something that I've seen in the clinic patients come in, and they're pursuing what they think is the cause of their symptoms. So they might be depressed a bit overweight their cholesterol's a little bit high, and they're fatigued, and they may or may not have digestive symptoms because you don't always have digestive symptoms that accompany, gut inflammation. Sometimes the information is silent and only manifesting in other non intestinal symptoms. Right like like neurological, fatigue or brain fog. Right. Exactly. Exactly. So these patients come in. And they may be they may have been on legal wrongs for six months, then they tried to leave Iraq simplicity mouth. So you have your teeth re plus on your four plus t three. So it's more like a custom medication, and they may even have gone and tried armor or WPA thyroid or or whatever, and they never really got the traction that they were looking for. And so what I've been saying now. For close to a year is I been criticizing that in the progressive realms of natural medicine, functional medicine, whatever you wanna call it. I think we're doling out hypothyroid diagnosis too quickly, and certainly not with near the level of circumspection that we should using. And when I've gone back and actually checked I found that some of these patients were never hypothyroid, and you may have been able to nitpick and say, well, they're TSA JR. Is an optimal their teeth fours optimal. That's a big difference from being hypothyroid and the clinicians. Probably in. Unintentional way. Didn't clearly explain this to the patient that they were not hypothyroid yet. There may have been a little bit of functional low thyroid status, nevertheless, they went on a vacation. And they come to see me five years later. And when I checked their initial lab work. It's clear they were never hypothyroid. They never felt fully improved from the medication yet. They've been on it for five years. This leads me to this. Most recent study that looked at inside from being long winded here. But this is this is super interesting. So this study they documented exactly what I've been seeing in the clinic two hundred ninety one patients who didn't have a firm hypothyroid diagnosis were then tested at baseline taken author medication for six to eight weeks. And then retested sixty percent of those patients were not hypothyroid that is a huge deal. And the title of the study was. Intially hypothyroid a timely diagnosis meetings a diagnosis. Now that's in vogue. So it's being handed out more quickly, which it really shouldn't be in. So. A couple of mistakes. They're important that the antibodies nor someone's weight nor their time on medication dictated, whether they had a higher chance of actually being hypothyroid or if they were normal thyroid. So that's just some important context. Ultrasound findings did seem to be somewhat predictive. So that's something that someone may be able to use the kind of sort this out but said quite simply if you haven't had a definitive diagnosis of hypothyroid and you're on thyroid medication. You may want to speak with your doctor about revisiting this issue to double check if you are hypothyroid or not, and I would say, and I'm not sure how to say this tactfully as I'd like to. But if your diagnosis was made by someone not in the conventional medicine community, I would be more prone habit. Double check than a Inouye mean that to be disparaging of functional integrative or natural medicine. But I do think that there's been some misrepresentation of the data to this community where some of the conditions in this space. I think I've been led to believe that hypothyroidism is more common than it actually is. And so yes, there is this association between CBO in hypothyroidism in my experience. It's one of the chief causes of someone who thinks they have a thyroid problem, but actually don't in their symptoms are actually coming from the problem in the gut, and you may be able to get some people off of flowering medication and fix a problem in their gut and also from the point where throughout noted medication in their symptoms. Are now cleared that's super interesting now if somebody wanted to actually test and see if they had CBO do you have go to test because I know that there's been in the past some talk. I think you've mentioned this to me, many CBO tests might not be reliable. Yes. I should maybe back up and just say for. People who wanna run the firearm test. The what you wanna do is test your age and your free t four and what you're looking for is if you're TSA is in the conventional MoMA range and your team four is in the conventional normal range. Then there's a extremely high likelihood that you are not hypothyroid, and you don't need our administration. Now might be a minor problem with conversion sure, but is a solution to that lifelong administration of thyroid hormone, no the solution is diet stress. And I would argue in large part, your gut so just to get people the parameters there because this is this is one of the things that leads to the Iranians diagnosis of hypothyroidism is using these ranges at are too narrow, and that's whole nother conversation, maybe to get into some of the particulars regarding why some people say that you're TSA should be below two point five, but. That's when you're diagnosing the condition Sunsilk for now. So so, but that is one important thing just to give people a note on if they wanna run this test of their thyroid set us now regarding CBO there is some debate on what the best test is really. I think you have to practical options both are breath tests. One uses glucose the other uses lackey Las. You can make a case for either. And I think there's pretty good evidence to make a case either way the Rome foundation, the largest body gastroenterology in the world recommends glucose the North American expert consensus recommends Lahtchi Laos so you have to large well credential bodies recommending these two different tests. I think is long as you're using the lactose test. Just to clarify you drink a bunch of lactose or any of this other. These other sugars that you get sent with the test to your house, then you breathe into this tube and it tracks how much gas Factoria produce over few hours. Exactly bellsa. Yep. And so there's there's a bait on which test is the best one of the challenges is the lack yellows test may lead to false positives. Meaning you may see a positive on your test. But you may not actually have CBO if you make your interpretive time window from the start of the test to ninety minutes only look at that window with the Latinos, you seem to safeguard against those false positives. So there's a fairly easy way. At least in my opinion to get around that. But really either one can work either breath tests can work they're cheap. They're like two hundred dollars. Even if insurance doesn't cover them, many insurances will cover them, and they can give you some some data to move on cool. Now, one of the things that I know I've seen you recommend for CBO. And I've tried this died out, and it's actually pretty good. It's called an elemental diet and usually has some kind of mirror placement powder in I've done. It used thorn medically and blended it with stevia and ice and actual but of bone broth and thrown in a little bit of oil in their little bit extra. I mean acids, and you just like drink that for breakfast, lunch and dinner for for awhile up to thirty days. I don't know if I just bastardize the element diet. But ultimately, I'm curious if you can explain the elemental diet, and how would work for something like CBO, or inflammation or ID or anything else shirt. Now, I don't know if that application would would actually classify or qualify as elemental I think it'd be pretty close and could probably work the the elemental diet is essentially a hypoallergenic. So it's devoid of common allergens and gut. Healing me. Hill replacement shake and one of the things that this elemental diet will do is it absorbs in the first couple of feet of the small intestine. So the rest of the small intestine and the large intestine all get a break from digestion. And if there are over growths, those overgrowth don't have the fuel the food in your diet to help continue to fuel the over grow. So it affect will starve overgrowth. And this is why we see one clinical trial showing quite impressive benefits and small intestinal bacterial. Overgrowth a number of inability to decrease autumn, unity and inflammation in the gut in inflammatory ballot. Z's some evidence showing it can help with was known as Nick esophagitis or in the focus off, which is essentially inflammatory condition in throat and one study showing benefit with rheumatoid arthritis. So joint information, so it can be very. Very helpful. It's not actually is hard to do as it sounds. It. Sounds like liquid liquid only diet would be tough. I've done this exclusively for four days is a guy who is six one in two fifteen in fairly muscular needs a lot of food, and I wasn't hungry at all actually had great mental clarity and focus and make a lot of shakes tastes pretty good too. Yeah. Yeah. And I should also mention that the the older generations of elemental dine it's tasted kind of like postage stamp glue. They were just there horrid. And I say that someone can show it almost anything even I was like gosh that you know, these these are terrible. There's a newer generation of elemental formulas that are actually quite palatable one of which we have released him really proud of in the feedback that we've gotten from our patients and people who go to the book protocol has been fantastic are formulas called elemental. He'll and it's one of these newer generation formulas. This one thankfully is available without a prescription that actually tastes pretty good. And you won't feel like you wanna gag which is always nice. Hey, I want to interrupt today show that tell you about Birdwell beach britches bird well beach, britches also known as birdies what they do is they make board shorts. But these are not just any old board shorts outside magazine. 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And if you use my discount code their autumn going to donate twenty percent all the fire victims. So I think that's pretty cool. The discount code is Ben one zero percentage sign the stuff would be an amazing stocking stuffer actually just saying Ben one zero percentage sign get you ten percent off those go shes organics fine. Fine. Schupp lament. All linked to that in Shonno's. If people wanna try out this diet, I would recommend you don't just like willy nilly jump into triad. Probably better to do the, you know, the the breath test for CBO, for example, the doctor show is talking about. But it's it's kind of a simple clean easy way to to again. Like you mentioned kind of keep the bacteria from having something to feed on in. You had mentioned briefly, Michael the idea of these African hunter gatherers microbiology, and how might be different than the westernized diet. But there's also, you know, there's people like, you know, Jeff Leach, for example, was made famous not made famous, but he he became a little bit famous for his experiment where he did the fecal microbiology transplant of the stool of hunter-gathering hung himself. Upside down the middle village. I think it was in data and just basically replaced his colonic bacteria with that of hunter gatherer. And and then I. Often wrote an article on it. I'll see if I can find the story linked to in the show notes. But what what do you think about that? Because you talk a little bit about the micro Bayada, these African hunter gatherer tribes in the book. And I'm curious what would happen if we were to all do that go way back to our roots and just put the bacteria our ancestors into our current westernized bodies. Well, it's it's a it's a great question. And. I don't know exactly. What would happen? If we all did FM teas from an African population African hundred other Republican, but a lot of the mismatch between the research, or I should say the the observational inferences that was being taken from Africa. And what the actual clinical science says that that I kind of open conversation with came from this research in Africa, and these these cross cultural comparisons are always very challenging because it's really bad science in bad practice to take an entire culture that's different in a vast array of ways and try to excise out from that culture one thing, and then replicate that almost force that EDEM into a totally different population. And so the African hundred gatherer groups that have been studied. Really provide a compelling example of that where they eat in many cases, a fairly high grain diet, a high carb diet, Anna diet that usually about half the calories as many many of us in the west, and they have vastly different immune systems and vastly different lifestyles, many of these tribes are highly Parasad's. Meaning they have almost all of them have worm infections were learning that those worms may actually have benefit or even not be parasites because Secondly deficit of parasite has to be kind of opportunistic and feed oppsosed and even do dances. And a lot of these things that just kinda like, you know, as in in the west, it's called home ethic therapy. But you know, the a lot of people now will will use tapeworms whip worms that are safe to actually effect, for example, a more robust immune system. Yup. So is absolutely. And I do think we should be rethinking how label some helmets or some worms as potentially not truly parasitic. It's incredibly well said, but all that being said, it does appear that the microbial is of the Africans are adaptations in part to their environment. And when we see similar entertains in the west devoid of their environment. They actually might be pathogenic and Matthias Brevard, Dr Smith, which I expound upon in the book provides what I feel one of the best examples of this Matthias Brevard actors Smith is like a cousin toback Tyrians tending to classified as our Caja, and this organisms interesting in the sense that it slows down with much Hillary or the movement of food through the intestines and by doing so helps to extract more calories from the food in helps. With more robust breakdown and extraction calories from food. So in an African population. That's evening, highly dense, highly fibrous diet and also a lower calorie diet. This is a beneficial annotation. You slow down the rate at which this food moves to the intestines, and you extract more calories from it. So you have more of a chance to extract calories from this dense hard to break down food to begin with that works for the Africans. When we see this overgrowth in westerners, it's accompanied by constipation, and it's been fairly highly associated to waking high cholesterol and high blood sugar so works for the Africans doesn't really seem to work. So well for us. So this is why we have to be careful in trying to replicate the diet of the Africans because they they had this whole environment. That's adapted to allow them to thrive on that diet and with that Beccaria ecosystem. So we have to be cautious in just replicating that and this is part of the scientific process, we see those observations, and then we formerly hypotheses, and then we test hypotheses and only after we've tested those policies in clinical trials should we act? Unfortunately, you know, there are the translation from what leeches doing to clinical practice isn't often made with caution, and you have people jumping from observation to clinical recommendations. And this is where you can seriously get yourself in Trump. So we should continue to watch this body of evidence. And learn what we can from it. But we want to be careful with how closely we replicate are are African hunter gatherer contemporaries Jasser to like a car high car prebiotics, super fiber rich diet works for Africans. But you're westerner. And you've got issues. That diet might be the exact opposite of what you need like at my feedback Tiriac, for example, if you have CBO or it might feed bacteria that you're mute system is attacking or create create more issue's, exactly. And and the higher carb. You know, obviously, if the haircut higher fibre, I think requires a little bit of contextual station, which is if someone's going from the standard American diet to any kind of healthy diet, they are likely going to increase their fiber in prebiotic intake. Just the question is how far you go on that spectrum for some people a low, carb paleo diet may be enough to make them feel totally fine. If they go to the extreme of going more proximal to a vegetarian diet, which is even higher in carbs and fiber in pre biotic, then they may start to have some serious problems with their gut. Now, one of the other things that you talked about, you know, in in regards to kind of like, you know, westernized versus non western societies is how non westernized societies have lessened. Slamma Taurean less autoimmune and less allergies because they're living in less sterile environment. So they might have stronger more robust immune systems. And I thought it was really interesting. How you outlined this with a modern day example of sir Denia can you explain what the Sardinians did? And how this affected their mean system. Yeah. This is an interesting story that I had heard anecdotal reports about and like many things in the book. I've really fact check them because one of the things I think is not helping the field of integrative medicine as great as it is is just parroting these things that we've been told in fact checking anything if you don't fact check than you never catch errors. And you're never able to get rid of the heirs in update. So I really did fact checked pretty much everything in the book, and you can tell by the referencing in the book, there's just under a thousand references. So I checked into the Sardinian issue because I wanted to make sure this wasn't just some kind of lower from. Natural medicine. It turns out that this does checkout, and I believe it was in the nineteen fifties. That Sardinia went through this anti malarial campaign because there's a fairly high incidence of malaria in Sardenia, and what ended up happening years after that was the incidence of multiple sclerosis in Sardinia started to go up to one of the highest in the world. And what the researchers who have been tracking? This are now positing is it was a or the the malaria was. A or I should say the star Deion immune system. Learn to evolve under the pressure of malaria and kind of required that little bit of tension in the immune system from the malaria for the Sardinians immune systems to be healthy. Once that was taken away, the Sardinian immune system that was always kind of used to having this little bit of tension with malaria once that was gone. It's almost to say these are immune system did not to do with it self. And it was so used to being a little bit turned on to guard against the malaria than when the malaria was gone. It was kind of like having a board army. Right. And then the soldiers get drunk going down start picking fights and you see this by standard autoimmune effect. And so sometimes things that we don't think are good may actually be good, especially if the immune system has evolved to pee in harmony with those in the same thing applies to. The helmets. As you alluded to earlier where helmets or warms are a fairly common part of the guts in those who are hundred gathers and one of the things that may lead or have led to the increased prevalence of autumn unity in the west is the anti worm campaign that was initiated in the US where now almost no one has worms. But those warms may have actually provided a little bit of background tension against our immune systems to prevent on unity. And now that they're gone the immune system tips into autumn unity. Yeah, I wrote an article about this a couple of months ago, I I actually inoculated myself with tapeworms in wick forms just to kind of experiment with how my moon system felt and and ultimately the biggest change I found was far less ability to getting sick. And it seemed even reduce the symptoms of jet lag. When I was traveling all all across the globe. So it seemed kind of modulate the immune system in some way all league at article in the show. He has to read it. I'll put it over at Ben greenfield finished dot com slash healthy, gut. But it's a perfect example. You know that this malaria eradication example of why we may want to keep our museum slightly challenged. Another thing that that I thought kind of reflected kind of good practical tip was this idea of increasing our our bacteria externally, especially like our skin bacteria and doing so with with naturally occurring plant life. So, you know, I've talked about the NASA cleaner study before my wife, and I have have placed house plants around the house that naturally clean the air based on many of the plants like English Ivy and peace lily that dented in in the NASA clean air study. But then you kinda take this to the next level as far as plant life. Can you explain what's going on? When we when we've plant in our home or surround yourself with plants. I think about a couple of studies in the book, and that were interesting most, namely, those one cohort study that looked at children growing up in environments where there is a high diversity of naturally occurring plant life around the home compared you children in environments where there was a low diversity or just a low amount of naturally occurring plant life around the home. And what they found was very interesting the diversity of plant life correlated with the diversity of bacteria on the skin of these children, which was inversely related to inflammation in the skin. So the higher the plant life the higher the bacterial diversity on the skin the lower, the inflammation in the skin and that led to a lower amount of things like eight topic dermatitis or just skin allergy of various sorts. So there does seem to be some kind of benefit from having a diversity of plant life around your home. Whether we can replicate this by buying plants putting. In the home. I don't know that that's been shown, but I wouldn't think that would harm in any way and certainly could only be neutral to hopefully beneficial. Yeah. It was really interesting takeaway in and then you kind of get into the realm of probiotics. And this is a big one for a lot of people especially in light of that new research. I talked about earlier that found that I think the primary takeaways or large intestine bacteria, don't necessarily flecked what's going on in the small intestine. And even though all these microbiome tests testing, the large intestine the stool, and then I think the other takeaway was that many of these probiotics even though they seem to have some kind of an effect on things like IBS IBD depression, and in many of the things that probiotics have been studied to be somewhat efficacious for they don't appear to actually kind of seed or populate the gut. So there's a lot of confusion out there regarding probiotics, and you have some really good sections of the book on probiotics. But what's your take on them? I mean, do you use them you prescribe them? Do you think they even worked? They stay in the. Gut. I mean what what's going on with probiotics in that respect? You're right. One of the I think most. I guess intuitive things that is important to mention regarding probiotics. Is that most probiotics with the exception of a few do not colonize you. And this throws a monkey wrench in the previous philosophy of. Well, you need to like you said received the repopulate with healthy Bank area. And that doesn't really seem to be the way this plays out. I think a better way to think about probiotics is you have this bacterial colony in your gut and with stress with poor diets with environmental insults with the fact that we grow up in an environment that's fairly sterile. And if you were not breastfed, or if you were caesarian birth all these things are negative knocks against that bacterial community in your gut. What I think probiotics can do is. They can provide a a nudge to the microbiology that can help reset it to a healthy. Equilibrium. And if we pair that nudge with preate diet in lifestyle inputs into the gut than we can help that nudge to maintain this you bios or this balance in the longer term, so healthy diet and lifestyle foundation paired with a nudge from probiotics seems to be able to help reset the microbiome to a healthier equilibrium. And and so I I should mention that one of the things that probiotics do that. I think is under appreciated is or actually antibacterial antifungal and anti parasitic perhaps using the term parasitic loosely, but they do seem probiotics is to be able to combat things like small, tesla bacterial overgrowth and Candida. So a properly used probiotic can have a lot of benefit for reducing overgrowth and also helping to reduce inflammation repair leaky guts. In help with a number of symptoms. But it's not to say that they will repopulate you're with this missing beg curia. But rather again, if you have these imbalances, the probiotics can help to kind of dislodge some of these balances and reset you to a healthier equilibrium. Now, what about when to take them because you you mentioned the use of probiotics kids. My kids eat a wide variety of ferment foods around the house like him Chee and coconut yogurt and sauerkraut me. So and things like this. But they don't take a probiotic per se. I think they have like some of that like the smarty pants. Probiotics upstairs. And you know that access to my probiotics. But, but do you think it's beneficial for kids to be using products? Well, there there had been a number of studies showing that probiotics can be helpful for children. And one of the first things I wanted to look at was how early can we go with probiotics. 'cause is there some sort of time. We need to wait before we give probiotic and could a probiotic perhaps given to an infant bead detrimental in some way. And even if you look at children in the Nick you or Preterm infants there is a benefit derived from taking probiotics. In fact, one study found that administration of probiotics before twenty seven days of life decrease the incidence of type one diabetes, and if the probiotics administered after twenty seven days of life. There was no impact on type one diabetes, which is not immune condition. So that's just one study. But there does seem to be this trend into state at simply the earlier antibiotic is used the more detrimental it is. And the earlier probiotic us is used potentially the more helpful. It is now probiotic foods. You know, how do they interface in here? It's hard to say I would assume that probiotic foods or supplemental probiotics would have a similar. Impact? I don't know that we have great research yet looking at for minute foods in in, you know, infants toddlers we do have those studies with probiotics in reduc- benefit. I would assume the same thing happen with a probiotic. So. I would say for for a child you can use either. If you're if you're if you're pre food than obviously, a probiotic would be the way to get there, or at least the mother taking it so hopefully, get some crossover benefit into the child. And then as as growing up, I would say use either minute foods or probiotics or a little bit of both. Yeah. I mean, really probiotics would be almost more targeted delivery, though. Because you know, when you look at live microorganisms assume you're not eating like a like a heat pasteurised probiotic like a lot of these store-bought sauerkraut. For example, are you know, the thing is they might not be necessarily reliable as a source of beneficial effect of bacteria. If you're trying to target your body with a specific strain of bacteria, but if you want just kind of shock approach of a wide diversity of back during your system, I think that that regular use of those than targeted USA probiotic seem to be somewhat affective and. In terms of target user, probiotics there there is this concept of survivability, and whether the probiotic can actually survive the acidic journey through the digestive system and make it for example to the colon. And I've seen of seen some folks. Now talking about like newer probiotic strains that might actually see the God. That's even the name of of one of them that people are talking about is this company called seed. That's making probiotics that they say actually survived the acidic environment in the gut than in populate. The god. Have you looked into strains like God at all? That are having hand survivability. You know, I've looked to some extent into these enteric coated probiotics. And my thinking here is the consumer needs to be very careful with the claims regarding probiotics. I remain very open. But I think there is much more hyperbole than there is here, actually actionable or helpful advice. And I think we are going to see because probiotics market that many companies wanna get into you're going to see progressively more outlandish claims made to market a product because the more people are marketing, the more marketing claims are made now you have to Mark even harder you need newer more novel pathways and mechanisms to market, so I can tell people that with the simple three category probiotic system that I use with the three probiotics that I recommend on the book, which are good clean probiotics. That have the appropriate ingredients in the proper dosing. But with those we haven't able to take. People who have positive candied in CBO in their labs. And the only thing they've needed to do is to use the appropriate protocol. And this does make a difference. I I remember most singly or just think with rob wolf he had done all types of gut protocols. I was because rob wolf knows everybody. And he he finally pulled me aside and said, hey, you know, you have anything to try so I gave him this probiotic protocol. And there was two categories of probiotics in three categories system that he hadn't tried and that was a huge game changer for rob not using the newest novel probiotic, which he was doing. I think for a while and getting pulled into the bells and whistles and just understanding that it's important to present the gut with this diverse array of probiotics using all three of the categories, and that was able to make a substantial impact. So I'd be I'd be cautious. Because this is something that you're gonna see more and more of and I watched a literature. And if there is something. Significant there that that needs to be acted on. I'll be one of the first people to adopt. But I am highly suspicious that the consumer is going to be just animal bombarded with all these different claims. Yeah, I think with that seed company they're using some kind of like a they're using LG as delivery mechanism. I think there's some how coating the bacteria with algae. And they say that it survives transit through digestion. But I don't know. I was just curious if you'd use any anything like that. But the other thing you talk about is is also this deal with using E coli as a probiotic, and that's a prize me. Because a lot of people think he call is just, you know, found bad hamburgers, and is gonna make you sick. But you actually talk about he coli as therapy is gut therapy. Where does he coli fit in when it comes to probiotic supplements? Asian great great question and very interesting 'cause there are pathogenic E coli tarot hemorrhagic coli, but also a fairly prevalent member of your healthy commence back tibia. Are different types of e-coli. And an so I mentioned earlier to three categories this probiotics while they're technically is a fourth which I mentioned in the book, but for most conversations like this. I don't discuss the fourth because the fourth isn't really available in the US for for weird. Regulatory reasons that I don't quite understand. While these probiotics are available in Europe in many other countries there for some reason not available in the US. Even though there have been a number of trials showing benefit. There's one that trained trade names as beautifully which is a choline isel one nine one seven, and it's it's a strain of coli, and it's been shown have quite impressive benefit like the other probiotics. I think all good probiotics of category one through three or this category. Four can be highly beneficial. So for someone who hasn't tried in coli probiotic. It's something that consider. And yes, there are healthy strains of coli that can be beneficial. And there have been a number of trials mostly inflammatory bowel disease, showing benefit with some of these e coli bass pro Alex interesting, and you can actually look on the label, and you can actually find coli ingredients on the label. Yep. Interesting. And so when people get a gut tests, and it says that they have coli those could actually beneficial strains of coli oftentimes, that's what you see. And it it's helpful to understand that E coli is a natural resident of the gun. And so unless it's dentist pathogenic E coli many times, this just tells you that you have lack just like lactobacillus Biffi bacterium, you have coli growth in your gut, which isn't a bad thing. Now, you also say in the book that we would be surprised about what you found in your research for the book about dietary fiber be surprised about dietary fiber. What what is it? The people be surprised about when it comes the dietary fiber. Well, I guess say it. Concisely the the benefit of dietary fiber, I think has been vastly overstated, but we have to paint one. I think important background nuance, which is a low fiber diet that's high sugar high in trans fat and high in processed foods is not healthy. But when you leave that sad, I which I'm sure no one listening to this has done probably a long time when you leave the standard American diet and go to pretty much any healthy diet from low carb all the way through a healthy budget, -tarian diet, you're probably okay in terms of your fiber intake, and there there's a fairly large swing in terms of the fiber intake from a low carb diet all the way through a bitch -tarian diet, but it doesn't really seem to matter. And this was the most of part of the book to write 'cause I was presented with one hundred sixty seven pages of abstract summaries on the research regarding fiber. I this was the point of the book where? Literally almost gave up. It was just it was so much data and having to try to parse through the data in a century say, okay, here's one hundred sixty seven studies we have to wait these by importance, and we have also divide. These by studies that show fiber has a health impact compared to fiber has no health impact. And that was quite difficult, but after going through that daunting process, the conclusion emerges is fairly clear, which is there has been no consistent benefits shown from a higher dietary fiber intake, and even some studies using diets that are relatively lower in fiber to some of the studies that they've been compared against and showing actual benefit for example, one they looking at a paleo diet next to a Mediterranean diet in the prevention of colorectal adenomas showed similar ability to prevent the currents of those now in your when you're saying high fiber versus low fiber. What are we talking here? Terms of number of grams of fiber. Well, that's the actual convenient thing. Which is it doesn't seem that you. We have to be highly prescriptive with this recommendation. Because it doesn't come kit. You have sought able fiber compared insoluble fiber. You have fiber from fruits you fiber from grains, you of hyper from vegetables. So it's been looked at in all different ways. But the trend that emerges in people want the deeper dive, you know, they they can read the book to kind of go through this on our study by study level, but the trend that you see is that higher fibre intake. There are some studies showing benefit from higher fibre intake, which is what a fiber enthusiast will cherry pick incite when they're trying to support the argument that you must eat a lot of fiber. But they will leave out the other evidence showing that higher fibre. And this will this will vary in terms of how much fiber in the type of fiber. But numerous studies also show no benefit from a higher fiber diet. So that's important factor. In also will meet look at studies that compare something like a vegetarian diet to a paleo diet or a prediction. Type diet compared to maybe a low carb type diet you actually see equivalent results in even specifically for metabolic conditions. A slate favoring for benefits in metabolism from a moderate to lower fiber intake. So there's not a specific Graham that one needs to shoot for to say that high fiber, moderate, fiber or lower fiber. But rather I would say whatever diet you feel best on anywhere from low carb, which tends to be a little bit lower in fiber all the way through high carb, which tends to be a little bit higher in fiber feel okay about that. Because there's no consistent evidence showing that you need to be eating higher fibre to have a healthier colon or just be healthier overall. You hear that a lot from people now who are following the carnivore diet, you know, eating a lot of meat and granted mean has a little bit of fiber in. But they're they're not eating a lot of fiber yet seeing in some cases reversal of a lot of guys, shoes, and inflammation. And I be d-. Have you looked into the carnivore diet at all or thought about that? When it comes to fiber. You know, I've had some patients who have fooled around with it. Some have done very poorly on it and some have done really well on it. And my thinking is that the carnivore diet is almost like an extreme limitation diet because we know that plant foods contain a number of things that can be noxious lecterns Sapin. Ines oxalate s- some Sofer Fahd maps and even just fiber in and of itself, especially vegetable fiber, insoluble fiber can all be irritants to the guts in. So what I think is happening is in part. This is just like taking everything or not everything, but many things that could be problematic to the gut and just wiping them all off the table in one fail swoop. When you go in the carnivore diet. So I I like it from I don't know if I was like it. But I I see the plausibility of it as an initial elimination diet and then one should. he'll after a while on that. And then try to move to the broadest diet possible. Have I've Osama opinion, by the way, I I don't I don't think that it has anything magical to do with eating copious amount of meat every day. I think it's the fact that you've just simplify the diet to the extent where you just aren't eating barely anything that could cause gut inflammation. But at the same time, I you know, this might offend some people. But I think it's almost like a lazy diet, you know, kind of similar to the elemental rights. I'm gonna same thing for breakfast, lunch, and dinner and screw food food. Prep cooking learning more about the wonderful world around me eating a whole foods diet like kind of a western prices diet where you know, you're you're actually learning and building a relationship with food versus like throw another slab of meat on the grill for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I just think it's it's almost like a little bit of a myopic overly restrictive diet. That's kind of like a a lazy way out. But that ultimately if you eat that way your entire life. I suspect you get pretty bored. Most people have talked to about it. They're like love her by. But after a month or two just like, I'm getting tired, and I agree. And I I would be prone to think that this would show some type of deleterious impact in the long term. Just like, you know, we we in the kinda paleo-ish camp or one in the paleo-ish can't loves to criticize the vegetarian diet for the potential nutrient deficiencies, I think the same logic applies here that a diet that's too extreme in what it limits opens the door increases, the likelihood of some type of neutral deficiency in the long-term. Yeah. I wanted to ask you one other question. And this was just like a little anecdote from your book that I found very interesting, and it was this idea of melatonin actually being something that could help with a leaky gut. And I'm curious if that is literally like just supplementing with melatonin, or if it is more related to sleeping, more or sleeping better. Or what? The deal with that would definitely say that the the optimum choice would be to have your sleep be adequate and quality to try to goose the melatonin pathway for gut health, but there has been at least one trial showing inability to improve IBS symptoms with supplemental melatonin and melatonin does seem to have an anti leaky guts mechanism to it perhaps due to its antioxidant capacity. So it I mean, it's certainly something that you could tinker with it's not something I use for the application in the clinic. If someone's having a hard time sleeping than I think Milton is is definitely a supplement to consider because it has secondary health benefits. So I see it having applicable there. But if someone's having a hard time sleeping, I would say look into the health of your gut because it has been fairly well identified that inflammation in the gut can lead to insomnia. So there's there's kind of this this closed loop circle. Where problems in the gut may lead to insomnia that insomnia may decrease melatonin melatonin may make gut worse than they're stuck in this self feeding cycle. So yes, melatonin can't help with leaky gun. Any of those studies? Remember how much melatonin was being used? You know, I don't I'm assuming it's probably anywhere from five milligrams a day to ten to ten probably the somewhat standard o- slow bit on the higher side there. But it's it's not something. I would say use a probiotic way before you use melatonin for for healing that he got interesting. I thought that that was kind of a cool anecdote was the USA melatonin. So all I'll linked to some of the research on this. And also everything we talk about if you just go to Ben greenfield, fitness dot com slash healthy, gut. That's been Greenville finis dot com slash healthy, gut. We kind of only scratched the surface in terms of the actual book. But I consider this to kind of be, you know, to a certain extent almost like a cookbook for if you have like gas constipation, bloating. Cbo you've noted something on your gut test results that you want to take a deeper dive into the book is a really good resource almost like a coffee table resource for your guts. And Dr Ruth show also has. Cast. That's really good. That has a lot of really good research base science on the gut which is what I really appreciate about. Michael is he he actually has researched back everything up like there's a thousand different studies just reference in this book alone. Any also puts out a newsletter. That's pretty good. When it comes to kind of keeping your gut dial in and getting access to the latest research on the gut. So the book is healthy, gut healthy, you I'll link to it and everything we talked about over Ben greenfield, Venice dot com slash healthy, gut and Michael thanks for. Thanks for coming on for three peat on the podcast. Yeah. They have me. But a lot of fun. Awesome, folks. While I'm on Ben greenfield with Dr Michael rougeau, sign out from Ben Greenville, finished dot com. Have an amazing week. While more go to Ben greenfield, fitness dot com. Where you can subscribe to my information packed and entertaining newsletter and click the link up on the right hand side of that webpage says Ben recommends you'll see a full list of everything ever recommended to enhance your body and your brain finally to get your hands on all of the unique supplement formulations that I personally developed you can visit the website of my company kion at get K I O N dot com. That's get K I O N dot com.
From the Vault: Talos
"You know, people say necessity is the mother of invention. But that's not always true. Sometimes the mother of invention is advertising. Yeah. Or pure accident. How about ego maniacal delusion? Absolutely. Or just a desperate longing. To be cool. I'm Robert lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. You're the host of the science podcasts stuff to blow your mind. And now we're branching off into the exploration of invention. Invention is the story of human history told one piece of technology at a time the things we made and how they made us invention publishes every Monday, listen and subscribe to invention on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or wherever you find your podcasts. Hey, welcome to stuff to blow your mind. My name is Robert lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. And it Saturday. I think we're supposed to venture into the vault. But I'm hearing some odd creaking and squealing of metal in there. That is giving me pause. Yes. We are going to be talking about Talos, the the atomic Tomasson of Greek myth in this episode this I have to say an episode that air January second two thousand eighteen one of my favorite episodes of twenty eighteen I think one of mine too. This one was a lot of fun. And you know, who would have thought that the best traditions of thinking about robot life, go all the way back to ancient Greece. It's true. Let's pull the plug out. Let that equal drain. Welcome to stuff to blow your mind from how stuff works dot com. Hey, wasn't this stuff to blow your mind? My name is Robert glam. And I'm Joe McCormick. Today. We're gonna be talking about themes of technology in ancient Greek literature before we get there. We have to go to the slightly related actually, very related topic of what's your favorite killer robot movie, Robert, oh, well, outside of some of the obvious choices from say, the Terminator movies can't say Terminator or even the RoboCop movies. You get into a weird. Territories. That a robot is a disabled, right? I would say my easy pick is the killer red robot Maximilian from the Disney movie the black hole. Oh, yeah. I've never seen it. Oh, he's terrifying. 'cause he just he floats around and do not touch the surface of the ship and has his missing red visor disappears into your soul, and has these spinning blade hands that it utilizes to at one point murder, Anthony Perkins and co blood, no any Perkins. Yeah. Well after. Psycho. I guess he had it coming. Well, no in this movie was great. And this movie felt sorry for him. If he'd showed up showing up in psycho than that, would that would be a different matter altogether. Now, I have probably gotta go to the movie chopping mall. Oh, yes is a eighties robot slasher set in a shopping mall at night where security robots go haywire. I think they're computer gets struck by lightning or something. And then they decide well they've got to kill the people who are hanging out overnight in the in the mall that is a delicious movie. Yeah. But also how about you'll burner in the original Westworld? Oh, yeah. He's super missing I'm up until his face falls off. I guess but before Westworld was like a thoughtful HBO series. It was a cheesy old movie with Yul Brynner pulling guns on people. Yeah. Yeah. He was. He was terrifying. I mean, you'll Brennan was always entertaining. But if he was kind of made to play a killer emotionless robot, I would say some of the best killer robot stuff in movies when killer robots are scary. The fact. They're scary comes not from malice or ill intent like it might in a monster or in a human villain or something. Like that the great thing about a killer robot in a scary movie. Is that it's terror is derived from the fact that it has no will of its own or no intention. It's just sort of like a an efficient emotionless killing machine. Yeah. All it has is directive, and it it absolutely will not stop until achieves it. Now, we obviously think of themes like this emerging in the fiction, primarily of the twentieth century. That's when we think science fiction in earnest really shows up the way, we know it now, I know you Jules Verne before that. But the twentieth century's when you really start getting your killer, robots everywhere. But today we're going to go back. Oh, yes. We're going to go back to a fabulous example of what is perhaps the very first killer robot that humans ever dreamt up and it it's not from the twentieth century. It's not from the nineteenth or even the eighteenth. It is from the ancient Greek world. And its name is Talos Talos. Yes. The man of bronze. The bronze Tomasson I want to quote from Edith Hamilton's version of the classic story of the quest for the golden fleece now. Ethane Milton's classic mythology. This is a great old textbook on Greek mythology. If you haven't had a chance to check it out. It's just wonderful leaf through every personal library needs a copy of this. But so she does a really good job of taking disparate elements of story traditions, and sort of pasting them together into composites that versions of the stories. So I wanna sorta summarize the quest for the golden fleece. You can't hit all the great points. But here's how it goes. So you've got this young hero Jason and in order to reclaim his rightful kingdom from usurper king. Jason is on a quest to retrieve a sacred artifact, which is a golden fleece from a magic ram that saved the life of a Greek prince long ago. And he's a company by crew other heroes as the Argonauts this is where we get Jason and the Argonauts and on the way to retrieve the artifact he has to face many trials with his companions one of the trials that Hamilton talks about is how Hercules is on the on the ship with him and Hercules friend gets yanked down into a spring by this nymph type creature and Hercules as roaming around the woods trying to find him and eventually gets lost and wanders off. So you would think you know, you got Hercules in your crew your said, but it turns out he's easily distracted. Yes, another trial is when Jason and the Argonauts have to battle with evil harpies on behalf of this wretched old man who has the gift of future site. So the old man is a profit. But he's been cursed. So that anytime he goes to eat some food harpies zoom down down out of the sky, and they terrorize him and they follow the food. He's eating. I'm not sure exactly what they do. It's their described as foul smelling. So maybe they just put him off it. Well, I'm just. Imagining just a tussle heartbe feathers and in heartbe excrement, and and it just all manner of nastiness. Yeah. And so they have to sail the ship through some crashing rocks and all kinds of stuff like that. But eventually Jason is able to capture the artifacts the golden fleece. But only with the help of the powerful which Princess Madisha one of the greatest sources in all of fiction. Medina's awesome. So she has fallen in love with him, but not entirely of her own volition because she was compelled into love by aero of cupid because Aphrodite he intervened on his behalf. So after they get the fleece Jason and Medina and the rest of the crew of the Argo are sailing toward Jason's home in on the journey. They pass by the island of Crete, and here I wanna read a direct quote from Hamilton's telling the story next came Crete where they would have landed. But for Madisha, she told them that Tallis's lived there. The last man left of the ancient bronze race a creature made all of bronze except one ankle where a loon he was Volna Rable, even as she spoke. He appeared terrible to behold and threatened to crush the ship with rocks. If they drew nearer they rested on their oars and Madisha kneeling prayed to the hounds of Hades to come in destroy him. The dread powers of evil heard her as the bronze man lifted appointed crag to hurl at the Argo. He grazed his ankle and the blood gushed forth until he sank and died than the heroes could land and refresh themselves for the voyage still before them. Now. This is only one telling of the story of Talos the mighty man of bronze and get a little bit more detail. I think we should look at a translation of the text of the story as told by Appalachia severe roads in his work, the Argonaut IKA, which is one version of of the story of just been talking about. Yes. Appaloosas ri-. Writes, he was of the stock of bronze of the men spring from ash-trees the last left among the sons of the gods, and the sons of Kronos gave him to Europa to be the water of Crete and to stride round the island thrice a day with his feet of bronze now in all the rest of his body and limbs he was fashioned of Bruns and invulnerable, but the Neath the sinew of his ankle was a blood red vein and this with his issue of life and death was covered by a thin skin. Now. So you've got a bronze guy you got a bronze guy, and he has this weak point in his his his ankle very much like achilles village. Individuals also week only in his ankle his he'll right because that's where he was held as he was dipped into into the river sticks. But we get a different explanation for the ability in this story now, it's technological vulnerability. Yeah. And I think this this is the key. And this is something we're going to discuss over and over again in this episode is that it it's easy to just dismiss this tale because Tallus does not have other adventures he basically shows up kinda dungeons and dragons random encounter, and he's dispatched the main story about him is his death. Right. And you can also say we'll Heatley sounds a lot like achilles. It's kind of like a bronze a robot knockoff of achilles to a certain extent. But when you really start digging into it, the technological aspect of this is absolutely phenomenal. No one great source on the tradition of the. Talis character is the author Merlin Perez who wrote the article Talos Daedalus a review of the authorship of the abominable bronze man in the Salen journal of humanities from nineteen seventy one and this is a fantastic article. So we will bring him up several times throughout the episode now one thing Paris points out is that not all versions of the towel story described housing xactly, the same sometimes his body has different features or characteristics, depending on who the author is. Yes. And is we'll discuss even the size fluctuates, right one that we always have to remember with Greek myths in particular is that they evolve I mean, all myths are subject to change over time and over place, depending on who's telling the tale and in win they are telling it in certainly the case with Greek mythology. So for example, apple onea's of roads, who's writing in the third century had said that this this vein this vein inside him was only apparent under the sinew of his ankle. Right. The ryan. Title. But then there are other accounts that say that it stretched from the neck down to both ankles. So that was apple Doris. Right. Yes. So this vein is full of what's known as e core which in Greek myth is the lifeblood of the gods. Sometimes it's described as golden instead of red though in most of the stories of seen about Tallus. It is described as red in the Iliad when the gods, for example, Aphrodite E R cut or stabbed with spears. They can be harmed. Their skin can be pierced and they leak fluid, but the fluid they leak is not blood, but e core so to quote from the Iliad, quote, the point tore through the Umbro Joel robe, which the Grace's had woven for Aphrodite -i and Pierce the skin between her wrist in the palm of her hand. So that the immortal blood or e core that flows in the veins of the blessed? God's came pouring from the wound for the gods. Do not eat bread nor drink wine hints. They have no blood such as ours and are. Portal. I love the conflicting ideas here like the idea that the God can be injured and the God can bleed, but they are in some sense, immortal. They have bodies they can leak fluid. They can be hurt. But the idea of immortality is somehow more bound up in what goes into their body, and what comes out of it than what can be done to it. Yes. And it's important to note here that this does not mean Talis is a God all accounts indicate that he is a manufactured thing. But of course, the manufacturer changes depending on the different tales. Yeah. But but still he is he's like this. Artificial creation that has been filled with life because he's been filled with the core. So the echo or maybe for for. The bronze mentality is not essential to his nature. But is something that has been used to give him the properties. He has maybe the properties of life or animation. Right. Yeah. The gasoline for your large. Bronze death Gullam the oil in the car now this makes. Me think about how both monsters and robots fiction are often identified by the different color of their blood. I think about like the aliens in X files that have green blood or in not just the X files. I think about the there's a great scene in fright night, where there's a guy who just think is like normal vampires familiar, but then he starts bleeding, and I think is blood is green that. Right. I believe so. Yeah. But anyway, it's it's all all over the place in fiction, but it's not just monsters robots to I think about ash spring, the milk white blood everywhere in early, and when he gets bashed up, and I think this goes to the deep metaphorical understanding, we have of blood as like the essence of person in the sense that close family members, which in material terms are those animals with which you share the most essential genetic, similarity are quote, your blood. Indeed. And of course, it's also worth noting that I believe film rating sometimes come into play. I've read that if you have a humanoid spa. Founding green pink wide or say, amber blood. You can still earn yourself a PD thirteen. But if it's if the stuff is red, then you're probably gonna get an are. Oh, wow. You know is going to say, well, I wonder if that played a role in its in its use in the Iliad, but no the Iliad full of blood. They didn't shy away from blood there. Oh, well, without getting into the whole issue of colors in the the works of Homer, right? That's an entirely different topic. Maybe a different day so tallow. So we've got him as this bronze man made of bronze. He's got this vein of equal or somewhere in his body going down to his ankle or both ankles that contains this life blood or essential theory liquid inside the gods that is animated. This bronze creature to some extent and he stands on the island. Throwing rocks at any ship that tries to dock we saw in Appalachia tail. The apparently runs around the island of Crete three times a day retired day, and it was impossible. I was tempted to do the math on it. Or I was actually kinda surprised that nobody else has a paper out there. Breaking down. Exactly how fast and how large Tallus would have to be to pull this off. But that's not the only thing that tells can do so he can curl rock set you ship. But what if you come ashore does he still pose a risk then? Oh, does he ever? He has this this beautifully. Grotesque superpower of being able to apparently jump into the fire heat. It's body up and then come out and embrace the enemy. So so the enemy soldiers say they've landed here comes towels leaping out of the fire. Applies huge bear hug and just immolates you his embrace, and according to the that's as ING, and it gets even better, according to to Merlin Paris, some argue that the term sardonic grin may have originated with the victims of this death, this at least according to Simonis who wrote the Tallus resided in Sardinia before coming to Crete, and he'd. Already destroyed. Many of this Orden's presumably leaving them with peeled back appealed back grin of of of the burnt dead. Yeah. The idea of the grimace, and this is a big question actually in the the end of the term where does the idea of the sardonic grin? Come from the the Rizza Sardonicus, which I think actually literally means Sardana laughter not sardonic grin. But the ideas get conflicted in the history of the terms. So yeah. Yeah. Where does this idea come from? Now another version I've heard so one is that he is crushing the Sardinians and the he's crushing them and burning them with his red hot embrace in that in their death grimaces turn into grins. But then also I a Paris talks about the idea that the grin goes to the robot itself. Right. Then this that Talos would grin have this creepy grin win. He was hugging. People to death with his burning arms. Another version of the explanation for this, which is kind of a side note from Telus. But I thought it was interesting. So I. Should bring it up. No one knows for sure where it came from. But the idea of the sardonic grin has also been potentially traced to a totally different Sardinian threat. So ancient historians told these stories that on the island of Cerdan the pre Roman inhabitants had this ritual custom for dealing with criminals and for youth Anais ING elderly people who couldn't care for themselves. And what they do is. They would drug them with an intoxicating poison that caused the victims facial muscles to contract into a creepy grin and become paralyzed hints the sardonic grin of Sardenia. And then while the victims were drugged out. They could be thrown off a cliff or beaten to death. It started off sounding reasonably humane for the ancient world, maybe it Stiller's depending on how you look at it just not much that's reasonably humane world. But anyway, so in two thousand nine studied by scientists at the university of eastern Piedmont in Italy claimed trace this story if true to an herb native to start any called the him lock water drop ward or eaten ans- CRA Cada also known commonly as water celery. But this is not a good candidate to stick in your Bloody Mary because the stem and the root of this plant are apparently a significant threat to fatal human poisonings one example sometime in the late nineties Acer Denia and shepherd committed suicide by eating water drop ward and his corpse was apparently found grinning now the name n anthem means wine. Flour and CRA kata in particular has apparently a quote paradoxical Swedish and pleasant taste and odor. And this makes it more dangerous than a lot of other plants, especially plants in the same genus, which are also. Poisonous, but have a bitter taste, which kind of keeps you from eating too much of it. And because of its ability to cause the facial muscles to contract into the Rizza Sirdana Casse, and because Denia is the only place in the Mediterranean where this plant commonly grows. The researchers think that it is probably the Sardinian death or from the agent stories, and thus the origin of the idea of the sardonic grin now back to Tallus though. Okay. So sorry to take. It's a fascinating diversion. But the the bronze the killer awaits is. We'll explore their too key origin stories for this mechanical marvel. So in some tales heat in really most of the older tales. He was created by Festus the God of the forge right? The the later known as Volkan the blacksmith God of Olympics. Yeah. Deformed a God. We who if you visit Birmingham, Alabama, you get to see his likeness on the horizon because the statue Volkan, really. Yeah. It's it's interesting one of the few pagan tourist stops in the American South. But in later telling 's the inventor Daedalus constructs this artificial being Daedalus. Yeah. The master inventor the creator of the the Minoan maze. The wings of Chris and other marvels, right? The famed mythical inventor. Yeah. And it's but this is interesting as well. Because Talos the the bronze Tomasson here curiously bears the same name as the inventor the Daedalus tried to murder out of jealousy. Earlier on pushing them out at out of tower. Although theme saves this mortal Tallus by turning him into a Partridge. So it can fly away. Yeah. In his paper, Paris talks about the the number of stories along these lines. But it's like an Athenian tradition that Daedalus was in Athens, and he had this pupil who was very talented, and he was a little too talented. Daedalus got a little territorial got a little jealous and pushed him off the Acropolis. Yeah. The original Tallus if we want to call them that the moral Tallus, he's attributed with with inventing the saw own thing. So. Yeah. Daedalus standing there's like, geez, you Assad. That's genius. Why didn't I think of that? I just wanna push you out of a tout. And he does this is a great argument for not showing up your boss in a meeting or being too clever. You're gonna get pushed out of a tower. You just know it's coming exactly no one last note about that Tallus that original human Talis was apparently also known as callous in some traditions. So there are some differences in the name. But anyway, so back to tell us in the story of the golden fleece. So we've got Jason and the Argonauts and Medina's especially now in most of the good versions of the story. Medina's the one who takes him down, right, right? And it in most of them in has to do with the removing of Bruns nail from that ankle again that weak point. That's good. That's connected to the vein that runs all the way through Tallis's body. She unplugged it she unplugged. The bronze nail which causes the Eaker to pour out of his body. Draining him of all life and movement, and there's actually a wonderful vase and Athenian vase from four hundred BC that illustrates. This makes you include that image on the landing page for this episode stuff to blow your mind dot com. You should take a look at this because it's awesome Tallis's ripped his PECS or like the size of cars. But actually one thing that you might notice in this case is that so okay, you've got LeBron's man. And he seems to be stumbling and falling down, but he's the same size as all the other dudes around him, which makes sense when you think about the the the embrace the deadly burning bear hug of the giant. Exactly. So when I read the story in the say the version told by Polonius roads, I think of Tallus as this hundred foot tall giant. And it seems that most modern commentators have just assumed him to be towering to be a giant like in the Ray Harry house in movies, though, where when you see Tallus he's this huge Godzilla like figure mid Paris points out that most of the ancient authors didn't describe him this way. That logically like you're saying he couldn't have been that much bigger than a man. How else could he do this this heating embrace heating? The the scalding burning roasting embrace now one exception to this seems to be the author of the or Fiqh Argonaut, which is different telling of the Argonauts data who called him quote. A bronze thrice giant or tree gigantea the line from there is we suffered a great enemy on Crete. When we observed a bronze giant who allowed? No one to go into the harbor. So at least some ancient authors picked up on the side that he was a giant. But it's not there in most of the stories in most he's more like the tin man or something very strong powerful metal figure, but basically human sized. And I believe there's also sometimes some crossover from counts of the colossus of Rhodes. Oh, yeah. The literally giant statue that stood as a sort of guardian of of the harbor. Yeah. So wait a minute. We gotta go back to. How Talos gets defeated stories. So they're they're four different versions of his death seem to exist. But they all relate to draining the equal or out of the ankle. So in one the hero poeace shoots him in the ankle. Which is I is one I reject that's fine. Don't don't give this guy a chance to do it. It's this is a Medina's role. Right. So there's another one where Medina's tricks him into thinking she can make him immortal by pulling out the nail. Now. This is a common trick up media sleeve because later in the same story. Medina also kills the serpent king by tricking him into thinking he can be a more actually not by tricking him. But she plays this wonderfully fatal and devious hoax on the daughters of the pretender king. Jason's trying to get thrown back from believes name Pelaez. Right. So she goes to Pelly os's daughters and says, hey, look, I can make an old lamb young again, not a lamb. All ram, and so she chops. It up puts it in boiling water and does a spell to make young lamb jump out. And then so Pelly os's daughters are like we'll great we're going to do that for dad. Happy birthday. And so they chop them up and they boil him, and they try to do the spell, and it doesn't work. She something an anti hero isn't. Yeah. Well, no, I mean Medina. You gotta feel for her. Like, she's she's the tr-. I would say she's the tragic heroine despite all of the killings. She does the other two versions of this relate to magical efforts on media's part, her hypnotic gaze spells or even some sort of a magical potion a- drugging of Tallus if you will that somehow make him stumble and rupture his ankle on Iraq, or or at least open him up for attack allow her to move in and pull that nail from the membrane. I would say the actual text of the Argonauts is too good not to read. So I think we should read the section where Medina kills Tallus inside this. This would be a good one to throw some drums over some barbarian Trump. Exactly. So please Sabam in here. So Talos shows up on a cliff he threatens to crush them with rocks and Medina Jason and his men to back away from the shore and let her take care of it. And then the translation of what follows is by our RC Seton in with songs did she prepares she ate and invoked. The death spirits devours of life. The swift hounds of heydays who hovering through all the air swoop down on the living kneeling in supplication. Thrice? She called on them with songs and thrice with prayers and shaping her soul to mischief with her hostile glance. She which to the eyes of Tallus the man of bronze and her teeth gnashed bidder wrath against him, and she sent forth baneful phantoms in the frenzy of her rage. Father Zeus, Shirley, great wonder rises in my mind. Seeing that dire destruction meets us not from disease and wounds alone. But low even from far may be it tortures us so Talos for all his frame of Veron's yielded, the victory to the might of Medina the Sorus. And as he was heaving. Massey. Rocks to stay them from reaching the haven. He grazed his ankle on a pointed crag and the equal or gushed forth like melted lead and not long there after did he stand towering on the jutting cliff? But even as some huge pine high up on the mountains, which woodmen have left half Hyun through their sharp axes when they returned from the forest at first shivers in the wind by night. Then last snaps at the stump and crashes down so Talos for awhile stood on his tireless feet swaying to and fro when at last all strength Pless fell with the mighty thud. All it's beautiful. I love that. That is a robot deaths have read one that's better than the T one thousand melting. It's better than any of it. And I should also note it's better than what we see in the nineteen sixty three film Jason and the Argonauts with those wonderful Ray, Harry house and affects because in that one. Jason kills Tallus rather than Madisha sexist, red con-. Yeah. And it's boring to Jason just runs up to his foot and pulls the thing out, and then all the fluid gushes out of Emini falls over. Why? I mean, you gotta give them a DEA. Some spells to do. I agree. She's in the movie, you might as well use it for that purpose is she not in the movie at that, point belief. She shows up after the Tallus encounter and they encounter Tallus not on Crete. But on some island of bronze or something? Well, that's a bummer. You gotta get the hands of heydays. You do the house eighties. A great line. Now. I love the way Medina does this. Because she's of course, you got Jason and all his meathead buddies, the I guess they probably just wanna rush in there and slash him up with swords, but Medina's like hold on. I got this, and that's actually possibly there in her name because as. Adrienne mayor points out. The name DEA seems to be derived from Greek word that means to plan or to devise whereas she surrounded by these heroes who are who are powerful because they're strong and brave. She's powerful because she's cunning, and she can think it out. So she's definitely one of the the really cool aspects of the story the other, of course, being the giant bronze robot. Yes. A where does Tallus come from in the literary tradition? Like where wince this bronze sentinel? We're gonna answer that question when we come back. You know, people say necessity is the mother of invention. But that's not always true. Sometimes the mother of invention is advertising. Yeah. Or pure accident. How about eagle maniacal delusion? Absolutely. Or just a desperate longing. To be cool. I'm Robert lamb, and I'm Joe McCormick. The host of the science podcasts stuff to blow your mind. And now we're branching off into the exploration of invention. Invention is the story of human history told one piece of technology to time the things we made and how they made us invention publishes every Monday, listen and subscribe to invention on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or wherever you find your podcasts. We're back. So before we proceed here. I wanna read this. Excellent quote from Merlin Paris in that Talos in Daedalus article that we've been discussing that really drives home. What why we're doing an episode about this myth to begin? With quote, Talis was not a mortal creature like the rest of them. But a product of the bronze founders are. In other words, we have in him a robot perhaps man's first conception of such not only in the outer form, but replete with an imaginary mechanical device, which was thought to activate him and in this capacity. He does not draw his plausibility as the other monsters did from the wild and fantastic nature's that belonged to prehistory rather. He is remarkably futuristic anticipating the scientific possibilities of the present age. And even then belonging more with the Zohar imaginings of the new mythos. Science fiction than with the mechanisms created and used in real life. I think something that's interesting about looking at the fantastical literature of the ancient world is that a lot of times we have troubled discerning, the difference between what was to them sort of magic fantasy and what was to them. They're equivalent of science fiction, as we would imagine it today because to us it all looks ancient it's all you know, because they're forward looking is still sort of backward to us. But I think there's a lot of literature in the ancient world the could quite well be characterized as sort of like science fiction. I think sometimes when you read, for example, the book of revelation or other apocalyptic literature, we read that now is feature is kind of like a epic fantasy or something like that. But I think from the time it was created the attitude toward it would have been more like our ideas like this. Topi and future Seifi. I think it's a strong point. Yes. Now at this point. We wanted to discuss some of the different versions of the tale. Relating wear Talos came from because they're important in breaking down what this tale says about technology. So the first one that we've been talking about a good bit has been the story told by Appalachia of roads and the Argonaut IKA, right? Yeah. This is the idea that he was a survivor of the age of bronze. And this is something that the Merlin Peres viewed as a quote dubious tradition. Right. So the bronze age were discussing here. This is not a an historical time period. This is not the technological bronze age that we will talk about that later. Yeah. What we're discussing. Here is one of the poet Hessy odds. Five races a race of humans created by Zeus from ash-trees, violent clad in bronze destroyed in the flood of of decor. Leeann who is the son of me and who's now confined to the quote dank house of Haiti's Haiti's house. I didn't even know. It was dang. Yeah. It's. Sank down there. So this would frame Talos as last bronze man, given by Zeus to Europa to protect your children, and then given to me knows to guard Crete. However, there seems little to suggest that anyone else viewed. The bronze men is actual men of bronze in Paris suspects that this was abalone os's invention. Okay. So we're seeing sort of a mishmash of different ideas. Here you got Hessy bronze age of creatures these human creatures who are not literally made of bronze. But, but it seems like apple Oni sort of taking that idea and applying it to a creature that he he does say explicitly is made of bronze again myths. Evolve myths are retold retold and changed so if he's made of bronze who made him well in those popular version of the tale as we've discussed tallows is the create is a creation a machine of some sort born from the forge and in the earlier traditions to creator is fastest aka Vulcan, God of the forge in Homer's, the Iliad we're told that. Hypothesis creates golden females and we'll driven tripod stools to serve the table of the gods. And he's also the one who forged the arm or the arms of Kelly's Simonis among others dinovite talents as a creature of Festus. Okay. So created by the gods that sort of takes away to some extent for me, the scifi nature of of the creature. Right. Yeah. If it's an animated statue of bronze. But it's created by the gods. It seems like it's nature is essentially magical, right? Yeah. Now Paris reminds us that the association here might have been Talis was a creation in the art of Festus, perhaps by another I suppose, this would be like using satanic magic to make a monster. Right. Who is who's the the master of the monster? Who's the true monster maker? Here's the wizard or the devil over time that we see this growth of association with Daedalus. And I think this is where we really can get into some fun questions about technology. So in time Daedalus comes to serve. As a human represent Representative of the skills and crafts that Festus rules over. So the mythological inventor again he said to have had walking statues of his own. He created the Minoan maze in crafted the wings of Chris. He was a master of at least art if not technology. Yeah. And usually in the traditions, both or at least overtime, but with and Paris makes a lot of this history of sociation between Daedalus and statuary that he was a great innovator in life sculpture is for example, Peres points out the Diodoros writes, quote in the sculptor's art, he Daedalus, so far excelled all other men the statues. He made were like human beings. They could see they said and walk in a word preserved. So well, the composition of the whole body that is handiwork seemed to be a living creature? So we're gonna the skeptically it just sounds like he's he's an accomplished sculptor and can make lifelock like sculpture. There's right. But this does seem to be taken literally all over the place. There are platonic dialogues where Socrates and it's there in the youth of fro. And it's there in the men. Oh, I think they're platonic dialogues for Socrates talks about Daedalus statues literally walking away. So he'll use them as a metaphor for something. Like, don't let this thing. Get away from you like Daedalus statues walking off from the workshop, but the idea of the innovation of lifelike poses in artistic sculpture does make me think about how when you look at stone age figurines, maybe I just haven't seen enough of them. But almost all the ones I can think of seemed to be posed with arms at their sides. Almost like corpses. They don't seem to be an action even the low and Mench is like this whole the Venus figurines, the low image. Just racking my brain for stone-age statues that really have much much action or stuff going on as if they're alive. But once you get closer. Or to the modern age once you get the empire's of Egypt and elsewhere guess later in the stone age and into the bronze age you start to see more figurines of humans animated with action like the striding figurines of ancient Egypt. Robert annot you've seen these right? Where the their legs are clearly like walking the walk sign on the street. Yes. Walking like any to shin. If you will. And so you add to this para says, the Theniet tradition about Daedalus that we talked about earlier which to remind you is that he wants a young pupil named Talos or callous who was so talented. The Daedalus got really jealous. Pushed him off the Acropolis to his death. And then for this crime Daedalus was banished Crete. And then Meanwhile, Paris notes that there are these traditions suggesting that the ancient Greeks knew of historical tabloid, the plural of Tallus in places like Attica, and sir Denia which were not actual robots, but bronze statues set up on rocky coastlines as figures of aperture pic- magic, meaning warding off magically gargoyles driving away evil forces and beings and Paris mentions the idea that there could have been such a figure once posed on the Acropolis which fell off. And so for Paris. It seems like these disparate narrative traditions and historical memories, get blended together into the idea. That Daedalus created Talos not just as a bronze statue. But as an animated living walking Brawn's robot, and I have to say this is the version of the tale. I like the most I like the idea that that the Daedalus is perhaps using the the craft and the power of Festus, but he's creating thing himself. Yeah. Oh, it's much better. If it's created by humans instead of created by the gods because of its created by the gods. Like, we said is magic if it's created by humans. This is Sifi. No. Of course, if it's Sifi one thing, we know from size. You've gotta give a plausible pseudoscientific explanation for why things work, right? You can't just invoke magic. You've got to give some kind of chemical or material explanation for the technology. Well, yeah, we have this idea that perhaps the inventions of Daedalus powered by quicksilver in this para says he suspects that Sophocles was the one who managed to steer the tradition towards Daedalus and this idea of quicksilver as the the really the animating e- core. Now, you can see why that would be the case because if you've ever seen quicksilver, it's got this kind of dancing dancing, jiggling quality, the mix it loc- as if it's quick as if it's alive. And so this provides an interesting chemical substitute to the mythological magical concept of e core, the lifeblood of the gods. All right on that note. We're. Gonna take one more break when we come back. We're going to discuss technology and Talis. Everybody run burgundy has a podcast now. That's right. It's a co production of heart radio and funnier die, and this a momentous moment marks the return of the legendary newsman who's been delighting fans all over the world since the hit movie anchorman was released in two thousand four in each episode of the Ron burgundy podcast, Ron engages in conversation with another notable person on the topic at hand, including some of Ron's closest friends such as Peter inkling a ten year old child and the San Diego chicken. Now, we ran some some kind of annoying ads for this podcast earlier on. But after say, I've listened to all the episodes that are out and I find it to be a very enjoyable show. It's it's it's low key. It's hilarious. It's a great way to pass the time when you drive into work. So you're a died in the wool burgundy act. I wasn't before. Like, I wasn't really crazy about the movies. But I like the show so go figure all right. Well in season one Ron addresses important issues like bullying looks at some bone chilling true crime cases and attempts to ultimately answer the. Question. Seriously. What is podcast you can listen and subscribe to the Ron burgundy podcast on the iheartradio app. Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. All right. We're back. We've already talked about the bronze age as defined as one of SEI's five ages. The mythological bronze age brought about the technological bronze age. Yeah. This this is where we get into some really interesting technological explanations here. So the bronze age generally covers the period of Greek history from thirty two hundred BC to twelve hundred BC, and we know that they used other metals during this time gold, silver lead, Tim electro, and even iron on rare occasions bronze, however was the predominant metal of choice for weapons tools vessels in statutes. Right. So what exactly did it mean for this robot to be composed of bronze as opposed to any other thing that could have been composed of the story? Well for starters. It means that he's composed of bronze which is an alloy which is ninety percent. Copper and ten percent tin. Yes. So for thousands of years before the bronze age people had been making crafts. Out of copper, copper was a metal. You could find in the rocks. But copper was soft and easily deformed. You can't make a sword out of copper because you know, you clash against a shield or some is just gonna bend or break. So the alloy with ten changed all that and left us with bronze, which is a metal that changed the world yet. It was the hardest and strongest medal at their disposal and could they could form complex shapes with it. Plus there were no production obstacles for for preparation because the we're talking to casting the hammering of bronze all of this was fully mastered at the time. This was this was an age of peak bronze technology. Yeah. And bronze was important. It was a major innovation in the history of technology because it meant we suddenly had access to hard objects that could be formed into blades and pre-cast shapes that wouldn't chip or shatter under impact. And could hold a sharp edge after heavy use iron, of course, later would be stronger, but before people figured out the process. As for drawing iron out of its or at scale. Bronze was the best humankind had, and I've even read I know in the past that bronze working may have been one of the first real drivers of long distance trade because sources of tin were very rare, and it often had to be imported to the Mediterranean or the mess potato empires from somewhere far away. So you might have you might think did bronze create the foundations of globalism. Also, just a side question. I wonder why it is that so many technological revolution seem based on the creation of blades and cutting materials. Well, well, I think there's there's an answer there that that relates the the basic nature of humanity. Well, yeah, obviously one of them is the idea of weapons, but I think it actually goes deeper than that. Because I think it's almost as if blades by being able to cleave naturally adhering materials represent the very essence of technological power in the natural world, which is the transformation of things by. By cutting thing, you change its nature shape it to what you want. Now that could be changing the nature of a live person into a dead person. But it could also be changing the nature of piece of wood into a building material that you can easily work with or any number of things like that. Now, some of you might be saying all right? Robert, Joe, you're you're chewing more than you bid off here. But I want to add it in the book, the robot the life story of technology by Lisa knocks the author points out that despite the imaginative in symbolic nature of tale such as this. We shouldn't dismiss connections between myths and the history of technology because we we look closely we can derive clues about people's attitudes toward technology toward toolmaking and the use of tools Joan are Mertens in Greek bronzes in the Metropolitan Museum of art writes that Talos illustrates a recurring trope in Greek myth the endowment of works of art with animate being we see it in the bull Daedalus makes for. Pacify as well as such notable miss as Pandora and Pygmalion quote in the hands of an inspired craftsman the proper combination of imitation imagination could result in a creation of extrordinary potential Talisma. Three minds us also that these creations were always made to serve a purpose in the case of the giant to guard the island of Crete here, again, we've got an author assuming it's a giant kind of impossible to resist that. But yeah, I I see exactly what's going on. Here. Mertens is is drawing this connection between the creative power of human beings. And the idea that you could actually create something animated something that's alive. And we totally see the the blurring of that distinction, and what we were talking about with Daedalus Daedalus, creating lifelike statues and sculptures that it some point are seen to be literally alive. Now, one of the cool ways to look at the talisman is to see it as a metaphor for bronze versus. Iron of the bronze age essentially ending in the iron age dawning. So we've already discussed how in some versions of the myth Talos is a gift given to king Minos or another person of power in this Knox points out that it quote reflects the way that bronze objects were reserved for the elite classes by the time. The Iliad was I told so the here's the thing size in power may imply important civil and military applications of practical, metallurgy and historians believe that the invaders who attacked Greece from the north around twelve hundred BC used iron weapons. So it's possible that this tale. This is a tale of the transition from bronze to iron it showing that here's this marvellous weapon. Symbolic. Well, this is basically bronze weaponry and bronze technology in Karnataka, and it crumbles if it goes up against this new metal that is even more potent all the more. More reason that you should always show Talos being destroyed by magic the magic of Medina. And the spells rather than by just somebody shooting an aero really good, right? Because if it's magic that implies this higher advanced level level of technology. The iron working of some of their culture is in fact, magic to you. You can't figure it out. So it is a power beyond your reach. Now, there's there's one more fascinating technological angle and all this, and it it relates to that vein of Talos that we see. So here's a quote, a once more from Joan art Mertens in Greek bronzes, quote, the myth also relates in an interesting way to the production of bronze objects one's attention is drawn to the mention of a single vein running through Tallis's body and plugged at the ankle a detail that may possibly have been taken from the molds for casting by the lost wax technique the lost wax technique. Yes. Tell me about this. All right. So first of all I want to mention that. This is an intern. Operation that seems to originate with British classical scholar. Arthur Bernard cook who lived a eighteen sixty eight through nineteen fifty two. Okay. But the idea here is that the functionality of Talos the thing that gives him live closely resembles the way, you would make a bronze statue or least statuette. So here's the basic process of creating LeBron's work, an inanimate one mind should not one that walks around first of all you prepare core of soil and clay to mold into a figure, then you layer that in wax. Then you add a third layer of fine. Clay baked with coarser clay. And this is where you'd scoped in the details. Okay. So you've got like a clay mold, and then you put wax around the shape of it. And then another claim old on top. Right. And when you go into the details, of course effect in the wax Nayef, right? The wax been left exposed at two points at the base think again to the idea that there to Danes running down his body. So this leaves us with a three layer construction corps at the center wax, representation around it and a clay mold over the wax with metal pins holding everything in alignment, and then once the clay dries you heat it up in the wax drains out of those holes. So then you've got a gap, right? And then that's where you pour molten bronze. Pour that into the void. And then once it cools you remove the clay in the former wax details are now in bronze. So you were then you all you have to do is repair casting flaws smooth and polish the surface. Rework the details needed at additional embellishments desired, silver, inlays, etc. And you have perhaps a being of bronze? So this means that the Talos figure as depicted and myth could be a direct metaphor for how bronze figures and figurines are. Created because it's got this vein for the wax to drain out. Yeah. That's really interesting. It is idea that this. This thing is is Mirroring technology and more than one way in perhaps this in doing so in a way that would have been more obvious. I guess to people hearing the tale like it might have been kind of a joke. One can imagine at the time. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think very often the humor of ancient myths is lost on us because we don't get the context. I mean, you can you can even imagine it Dane kind of like, you know, what this robots achilles heel was what was his achilles heel. We just pulled the plug out. And then everything drained out any lost his his life force. And then Greek laughter ensues. It would be almost like if you in, you know, thousands of years we're looking back on some modern scifi story where somebody undoes the killer robot by unplugging it from the wall. Yes. And they think that like that is a, wow, it has this long-tailed. It's tach to the building. It's in like what a strange mythological feature. But in. Fact, it's just a joke about how easy it is to kill this thing by unplugging. They might think. Well, this is a metaphor for how shackled to electrobi- and technology that people at the time felt and that and and you know, all of these various complex interpretations when it's really just pluck. Now, speaking of of modern times, what if anything can we draw from Talos about modern technology now one thing to keep in mind all of this. We talked about how myths change over time. But of course, society changes as well. And there are changes in the moral and social dimension of how we treat our technology. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean, there's definitely a sense in which technology influences, the development of human ideology, and culture. But it also goes the other way, our ideas about technology, come from our values, and our the way our society is ordered in our beliefs, and one example is I wonder if you can draw broad parallels between. In the way technology is envisioned in free societies that value human rights versus slave owning societies. And so for example, in his politics Aerostat were written around three fifty BC Aristotle's writing about the idea of possessions versus instruments, and he sort of characterizes slaves who are human beings as a type of instrument or tool he says quote for if every instrument could accomplish its own work obeying or anticipating the will of others like the statues of Daedalus or the tripods of faced us, which says the poet quote of their own accord entered the assembly of the gods if in like manner, the shuttle would weave and the plectrums touched the liar without a hand to guide them chief workman would not want servants nor master's slaves. So Aerostat will believed that that slavery that. That slavery and being masters were a state of nature. Some people for him were born to be masters and other people were born to be slaves. And this was a basic feature of the character of each person. Now, obviously this goes completely in the face of our modern ideas, but individual rights and equality and freedoms this is the worst part of Aristotle to read. And yet, I I wonder if it's illuminating about how perhaps a defender of a slave owning culture like Aristotle and other Greek elites would have had to blur the line between human labor and inanimate technology in order to justify their enslavement of other humans like, but by being pro slavery. They think of human labor and inanimate labor, or at least as they imagined sort of robot labor in their fantasies to be sort of similar things. So we in the modern age would make complete, you know, a very hard line distinction between the labor of human being. And the workings of mechanical robot. I'm not sure that era Stottlemyre in many of the Greeks always would. So if they didn't necessarily make that distinction. How did it inform their myths in their ideas of Tommaso and an robots and or deficient beings VIN arresting to when when you consider if I remember correctly, our word robot, even derives from an old Slavic word robotic, which means the servitude. So you could you see this definite connection between even our modern conception of a robot with slavery, slavery or servitude? Yeah. I think maybe this very firm distinction. We make between human beings and humanoid robots thinking them as very different fundamentally different things might come from our idea of human rights, right? Like, if you are in a society that just does not really have the idea of human rights. You may very well not have such a clear idea of the distinction. In between human and the robot. Indeed. And I think we see this line blurred very much in the different traditions of how the Talos is represented. But what can I wonder what Talos can tell us about modern technology for one thing it connects to ideas about the nature of a robot? Like, what is a robot or an Android and could a robot or an Android ever, attained the human kind of status, you know, we've just been talking about the distinction between humans and robots but can robot sinned, the latter and becomes something? We would think of like a human is a self move, but artificial creature capable of feeling now Peres says that according to erase doddle Daedalus statues were able to quote carry out tasks, which they had been instructed to do or had learned beforehand. So para says the deadly silence the impersonal officiency the tireless thoroughness with which he executed his gory tasks Mark amount as a machine. Without a speck of thought or feeling and on air Stuttle's idea that statue, especially a robot could carry out tasks, which they had been instructed to do or learn beforehand. This seems to imply that creative or novel behaviors are not possible for it that the robot does as it's programmed, but that it can't achieve a will of its own basically. But then at the same time tallows animated with e core for the ability to be self moved like the gods and the stories of tallow several times say he was quote alive. And that he was quote faded to die in that. When he fell he was not only deactivated or destroyed, but he died yet. Again, we're seeing the sort of blurring of the distinction between a human robot. We would talk about humans and robots much more differently. I think in modern science fiction than the ancient Greeks did when they talked about their their humans and their gods. And there. Robots seems like the lines are are much blurrier all throughout and certainly a lot of modern science fiction that re- blurs those lines. I mean, there's a tremendous amount of of of narrative fun to be had there. Oh, yeah. Well, I mean earlier we brought up the obvious robot of Yul Brenner in Westworld. But in the new Westworld, I think it's been a lot of times trying to re blur these lines. We were talking about being blurrier in the ancient literature, but becoming more distinct in the twentieth century, if you've if you've got a Westworld where these characters are robots, but you're wondering like do they feel is their labor more like human labor, can they be exploited? Should they have some kind of rights of their own? It's almost like they're like, we're reverting to this this Meazza of confusion about the nature of beings that can move and act. That's a good point another great show that comes to mind is Lisa channel four AMC co-production. But humans explores a lot of this. These humanoid robots created of to serve us. And then they some of them become conscious and complications arise. Yeah. And one thing we can definitely see being dealt with these new versions of science fiction that are blurring the lines between humankind and robots is that unlike many of these Greek myths, they're much more informed by the idea of human rights. And so what happens if you re blur the lines, but suddenly you've got a much higher standard for what humans deserve and how they should be treated are. I think that pretty much wraps it up for Talos. The man of bronze. However, I would be it'd be remiss if I did not mention the giant warriors Zaky's NAS IKA valley of the wind. Those are some amazing giant robots that play an important role in that film. Yeah. And now, I would say if you haven't seen Ray, Harry has Howson's Tallus from Jason and the Argonauts in nineteen sixty three. I know we were hating on it because they they take away Medina's role in it. But it's still a really cool. Stop motion. Yeah. All I mean, it's the same with all of areas and stuff, right? If nothing else seek out the Harry house and sequences and watch them because tell us does look amazing in this. Yeah. It's like all the Harry house and Sindbad move is usually the story is just garbage. But it's got some great monsters in it. Indeed. Now, I know we have some some listener thoughts on this. You'd like to share about Talos about the nature of robots and machines. I'm sure that anyone out there who was really inspired by the bicameral mind Soad's, you have some bicameral thoughts on this particular topic because we're talking about statues coming to life share those with us. We'd love to talk with you about them, either an Email or hey over at the discussion Montel, that's our Facebook group that you can join and interact with us, but plenty of other listeners to the show. And of course, you can find stuff to remind com. That's the mothership will you'll find all of our podcast episodes, our blog posts, videos and links out to. All those various social media accounts. Big shout out to Alex Williams, and Tari Harrison are excellent audio producers of for for making a sound better than we are as always. And of course, if you want to reach out to us, you can do so on Email at blow the mind at house to works dot com. For more on this and bathrooms of other topics. Visit how stuff works com. Impose. It's the wrong burgundy podcast. It's the Ron burgundy podcast. Guess what? I got up podcast, and you don't guess what? I got up podcast, and you don't Ron burgundy. Tuck cast. This is Ron burgundy remind you to tune into my new podcast brought to you by Sharman to paper the best in the biz. It's made by some good guys for some good drips to Duesseldorf. If you know what I mean, go to the store and pick up a role, you can't mess. This one up.