20 Episode results for "Sierra Nevada Brewing Company"
"The Temple Ralston. Hey deny hey there so you're here because you've been doing some really cool reporting about artificial intelligence as part of your special series I'll be you're listening to shortwave from NPR hey everybody matty Safai here again this time with NPR special correspondent says that there's never an oboe in disco music but here's something that's interesting in La I how does it work and how can we stop it support for this. NPR had cast comes from Sierra Nevada Brewing Company family owned operated and argued over since nineteen eighty proud supporter of independent thawed. Whether that's on at the a I noticed it but you don't write that oboe is enough for ai to decide that's it not disco so that's the way you foy exactly versity they trained to computer to use facial recognition to identify different people and the computer dutifully ingests all these different pictures and identifies them every time line over the air or in a bottle more at Sierra Nevada dot com okay Dina let's start with the basics what makes a is so vulnerable to hackers ability allies here's an example let's say you have a and you want it to identify particular kind of music say tiger defied disc to categorize things to learn about them to find patterns and then once it finds those patterns it kind of find shortcuts to get to those patterns quicker and that's where the vulnerable correct everything from my public opinion to driverless cars so it has huge implications today shirt wave advocate they figured out that disco always has number of beats per minute or a calculates how many horns are in a piece of disco music and then let's say the Ai Notice Ackley right and then they put these big colorful glasses on a subject who didn't have glasses before and the computer completely miss identifies him just because he put on a pair of big Oh okay Dina that discount no you didn't see that coming did you train the AI system with tons and tons of disco music on me that's right you're human years can't recognize the oboe but the way I can't so if I were an adversary I- person I would sneak that oboe in there so also found out that for all of its potential there are some real concerns about hacking into ai there's actually a whole field of study that is focused on this it's called Advir it's the way it makes decisions it's a bit of a black box humans look at the totality of something and what it does it's just ingests millions and millions of data points so I really good at creating tongue twisters but basically what they're trying to do is imagine adversaries hacking into systems and as they see cereal or evil I it's a big enough concern that Darpa the military's research arm has created this whole program to study it and it's called guaranteeing a robustness against deception or luckily it has a short time guard the government is so good at naming things it is quite the name of music you were just dancing to yeah there's no no there was not yeah there was here let me bump up the Obote for you you snuck that oboe that feels like disturbingly simple Tina it's an incredibly oversimplified example and a good excuse to use disco so here's a real world experiment out of Carnegie Mellon involved driverless cars okay tell me about it so I let me introduce you to the lead scientist of the experiment she's a UC Berkeley professor named dawn song and short video she made with colleagues from Berkeley the University of Michigan University of Washington and Stony Brook and this video went viral so what's on the video so the video doesn't have any sense met up with her in San Francisco wow this is quite a view for the greater good I tore myself away from the view and I asked her if she'd show me the hatfields abuse but keep going yes but hey I saw it yes so it finds ten things that are always in disco music but never an orchestral music let's colored glass they're not ordinarily glasses to be fair there was sort of like oversized clown glasses but yes basically that's how fooled but the experiment that changed everything around and it's less than a minute long perfect podcast
The Squishy Science Behind ASMR
"You're listening to shortwave from NPR. Mattie Safai here with our very own shortwave reporter and sometimes host I Emily Kuang Greetings Emily Quang Hai Mattie I emily hello why are we whispering because today's canopy it's a whole nother world up there and she wants to get more female scientists into it that's tomorrow on shortwave from N._p._R. Yeah here she is unwrapping a starburst that is a starburst and mean unwrapped minor called is Asmar Darling here she has quietly touching a little house made of Legos with her fingernails these videos these vegas millions of views on Youtube Ninety six when you and I could be whispering soft tapping rustling paper there seems to be a visual component to all of this not always things like slow movements delicate and Mattie in situations like these she would enter this trance like state of relaxation defeating itself is a warm or Julia Puerto helps us explain the science behind the sensation and we ask does this have anything to do with the slime trend losing her and she still remembers vividly a little girl and occasionally she get this very distinct feeling in certain situations really early examples would that brain tingling feeling experienced by some people is called. As Amar Autonomous Sensory murdy response a psycho physiological experience reliably triggered by certain things like whispering personal attention soft voices a whole host of things so today on the show asthma research the support for this NPR podcast comes from Sierra Nevada Brewing Company family owned operated and argued over since nineteen eighty proud supporter of independent thawed whether that's online over the air or antibody this feeling they had Asmar so these people just like get relief Zenda out by whispering there's a whole host of different triggers for different people and it's only been a thing in public discussion for about a dozen years that's about win in two thousand seven people began to find each other and build communities online calling she is a real life person experiences Asmar re-live one and researches it s Mars not exactly a big field of scientific study oh more at Sierra Nevada dot com okay so matty yes ma'am our tour Guide through the World Asmar is Julia Puerto we're going to hear from her at hand gestures can induce an as Amar experience one of the most popular a s m artists on youtube that's what the people who make these as videos do things like Watching my mom brush her hair or make upon getting my feet measured for school shoes teacher explaining something to me really carefully I personal favorite here she is counting down slowly in a whisper from one thousand nine across the Internet I get coming for you little bit like music juice chills or or inspired chill so sometimes you know if you hear an amazing speech like Martin Luther King's speech you might get those kind of the you hear this we hear it but for some people they feel it and that's what happens for Julia and those who experience there's goosebumps those shivers up your spine which is really kind of complex emotional aesthetic response to some people experience other people diners best shows that the less able to inhibit sensory and emotional responses basically they were less able to separate the link between what their senses experience it nor how many people experience it at all the important thing to know here is there isn't a ton of scientific research on this topic there is in my hand is slime flow technically slime with little foam pieces inside Tim with new Asmar triggers on the Internet remember the using I mentioned earlier yeah I remember that it was unfortunate I have with me in my hand trains run a restful state basically not doing anything and they looked at this specific network within the brain something called the default mode network which is associated with things and so this is a young woman doing this in your like looking at her face and she's really close to the camera it seems very intimate is if it's not like this sexual feeling what is it like in the brains of people who experience it what's going on we don't actually know what is happening truly in the brains of people who had in one study though that really interested Julia it's a two thousand sixteen paper by Canadian researchers that looked at the brains of people who experience Asmar when hey named Julia my name is Judy Wary Oh God I haven't thought about my age on thirty one Julie is about to start lecturing at the University of Essex this pulling sensation that starts at the the crap ahead with mice like bubbles onto the scout bet bets on where bubbles go in conspired throughout the rest of the body Saddam spine the limbs it's my son says or something like that kind of like I said this is one of many early studies and what's also interesting is how people are experiment like daydreaming in mind wandering and also self-referential thought and what they found was the essentially the they they thought that the brain network activity officially which is exactly the opposite of what you would expect if it was somehow a sexually arousing I don't know why but that makes me feel better about it it is it something else so not doing something different accu are shrinking in your seat I try and get as far away from me as possible I don't I don't like it you WanNa play with it I mean something that produces sound and I'm going to introduce it to you a little bit of flare so what I'm holding her glitter or charms next into it people gotten very creative with their signs fun to play with and it also has a sound not doing it for you know it's picking up and what they're feeling in their bodies sensory emotional experiences weren't as suppressed okay that makes sense to me they experienced their sensors in a different way then like I experience why is this a sex thing on to be honest that was my initial thought to I don't experience I assume are but Julia said based on studies she's done model showed we wanted to ask our scientists Julia if slime is a bona fide trigger for Asmar I mean I guess there are powerless probably people who experience why does is more help you go to sleep and another important question with regards to sleep is does it not only help you get to sleep but it does also improve the quality of your sleep so why did you why don't you start one I brought this in because if you search Hashtag on instagram right now guess how many posts why do some people experience it at a higher intensity than others and also and this is really interesting to me what is the effect of Asmar on sleep so we know a small would experience a small watching things like slime videos however one thing I would say the actually there's been quite a lot of interlocking between different what it means for people on the Internet she's focused though on the world of science and has a lot of outstanding questions why do some people experience it and others don't do you hear that yeah I can hear in the last few years there's been booming videos of people manipulating slime yeah it'll have our videos of people doing exactly what you're doing right now just manipulating slime and making these satisfying cheese sounds are there groups of people during those who do Mars not the feeling of getting turned on eight I'll research we of course measured people's heart rates and on average heart rate decrease when people watched as for some people this might be like the modern day version of counting sheep don't have the brain tangles it's not Asamara that's talking to you at the same time Julia said that the more Mars linked to things like slime videos that could change it the Internet of oddly satisfying yeah the Hashtag asthma because I suspect it is piggybacking on tomorrow as kind of Tom to get people to watch videos friends so s Marin slime and things buying have all kinds I don't Mc Bang started in South Korea broadcast people eating food while talking to their audience with high sounds county one thousand nine hundred ninety nine so when you see a video someone let's say cutting soap opera singer cookie oh someone playing with really pretty slime that may be oddly satisfying but if thanks again to Julia poor area in the UK and special thanks to Emmanuel Johnston NPR's Vanessa Castio for their help on this episode who experience an anti-us Amar like instead of feeling sued right now I feel very unsettled in my belly hurts that would be called Ms Afon. Different efforts quality microphones what a nightmare the Internet slime and things done
Eventbrite: Julia Hartz
"Hey I am so excited to tell you about to how I built. This live shows coming to San Francisco and Seattle in just a few weeks in San Francisco. I'll be speaking with Ken. Grossman of Sierra Nevada brewing company. That's happening Friday March twenty seventh at the Sydney Goldstein Theater. In that same week on Thursday the twenty sixth of March. I'll be in Seattle at Ben Roy Hall talking to the founders of sub pop the label behind artists like Nirvana and death cab for Cutie and soundgarden Jonathan Parliament and Bruce Pavitt will sit down with me to recount their story thesis going to be incredible show so if you are a fan of Sierra Nevada Nineties Music Nirvana or just of the show. Be Sure to join us on this. West Coast swing for more information or to get your tickets head to NPR PRESENTS DOT ORG and hope to see you there. All of a sudden. I was packing up my window office on the forty second floor of Fox Plaza which is the iconic building entry city and literally the next day pushing saw horses and plywood into a windowless phone closet in a warehouse with Kevin and I remember pushing us all behind him thinking really have done this from NPR. It's how I built this show. I'm universities entrepreneurs idealists and the stories behind the movements. They built and today show how Julia hearts and husband Kevin Launch their ticketing platform event. Bright from closet and the San Francisco Warehouse and today manage events in seventy countries around the world. There's a famous quote by Warren Buffett about his investment strategy when he looks for investment opportunities. He looks for quote Economic Castles. Protected by UNBREACHABLE MOATS SO. In other words huge companies have scale that can withstand or even quash any potential competitor in getting over. That mode is meant to be hard and sometimes the only way to penetrate. The castle isn't by crossing the drawbridge but by going raeside sort of like the way monosso. Bhargava launched five hour energy. If you heard that episode you might remember that when Minoshe got started. The energy drink market was dominated by red bull and monster. There was no way as small upstart like his was going to compete with. The big guys is for shelf space so instead of marketing. Five hour energy drink minnows. Turn it into a different kind of product and energy shot and before his competitors could even react. He'd created a whole new kind of product in the energy drink industry and in kind of a similar way when Julia and Kevin Hart's decided to get into event ticketing. The obvious competition of course was a massive company called ticketmaster a company with lots of control over large events at stadiums and arenas virtually Kevin noticed. That ticketmaster wasn't all that interested in small and medium-sized events. And when they saw that opportunity they realized it could be their way across the moat that ticketmaster around the ticketing business and while is still the biggest player in the ticket. Space event. Bright is no slouch today. Fourteen years since it was founded event. Bright is a publicly traded with a market cap of nearly two billion dollars for for. Julia hearts much from her early life suggested she become an entrepreneur in fact growing up in Santa Cruz. California. She was really into broadcast journalism and apply to college thinking. She eventually get into television. News I I applied and was admitted to pepperdine in the early admissions timeframe but I couldn't afford to go to pepperdine but I also wasn't in the bracket that would get full financial aid and my mom said you know if you really have your heart set on pepperdine. You should write them a letter and tell them that and I remember thinking like mom come on. They're not gonNA that's not GonNa work and thank God. I took her advice because I wrote a letter and with no other warning. A full financial aid package showed up. Wow I couldn't believe it. And so basically what that meant was. I took on a ton of dead student loan debt and I have three jobs and my parents obviously contributed everything they could so it was a group effort and I sat through my first semester of classes that were know your basic college courses and then the second semester I'd made a big change in and realize that at the time which was to actually concentrate on television production as my focus. All right so you are at pepperdine and you get into interested in In television I guess why you were in college. You get an internship on friends like the biggest show one of the bigs ever right like what was that like so it was pretty surreal because it was at the height of the friends popularity as show. It was as exciting as you can. Imagine. There is Jennifer Aniston and Courtney Cox than you know these huge celebrities within arm's reach and my job on the set of friends was to answer the phone. Which was this big wireless owned? I would carry around and connect whoever was on the line to the person they wanted to speak with and it was still today the most terrifying job. I've ever had of my life because if you have the set phone number four friends you probably not someone who's super patient about who you're looking for so I guess in your senior year you end up at MTV. That's right that would prove to be an important internship. Like an important turning point for you Was a different kind of job or internship. Yeah I mean I think that between friends and MTV and lending an MTV and in my senior year. I discovered two things for myself. One was I was not passionate about production and everything that goes into actually filming. The second thing was I just wasn't passionate about celebrity and so when I landed at MTV in the series Development Department it was as if I finally found the perfect place because development really marries business an creative and being anchored in a network and especially in a cable network was really exciting and dynamic. And I'll never forget. I was there when when we got this demo tape from these guys who were doing just really stupid stuff and it turned out to be jackass and that was an incredible experience to watch something go from demo all the way through to series and and I have a lot of really great memories from that experience. Wow so you were present at the creation of Jackass. I was a witness. I mean yeah I certainly didn't have any contribution That was significant but I witnessed something that was groundbreaking. It was different. It was weird. People didn't know how to feel. I remember the weekly phone calls that we would do. Between the network the standards and Practices Department Osha the lawyers and then the guys and they would in the course of a week. Come up with maybe two full pages of ideas for stance and just the description and the brainstorming around how one would pull these. Stunts off was so entertaining. It was irreverence at its at. Its very best so you end up going to work from TV after you graduate by which is Pretty Great Job Brighton. And did you end up working on that show or with that show so I did I? I graduated on a Friday and was employed by Monday. I've been working since I was fourteen with no break and that was a really fortunate thing that I was able to. Just pick up where I left off and joined the team as an assistant and so I was in the Development Department and we jackass was one of our shows amongst several others that we worked on to put on air and being a development executive is not unlike being. Vc GAS OF SEVERAL STAGES. So you start with seed where you're cultivating talent and you're taking a lot of pitches and then you helped to cultivate the idea. And then you've got to place where down the line. It may become a series and our job was to take it from concept person to series and then managed the series as it was on air. I guess you stay there for a couple years and then got recruited by fx networks To work there which is pretty cool. I mean sounds like the trajectory of your career. Was you were going to end up working in Hollywood working on TV development projects and eventually become an executive. Did that seem like that was your kind of your path? Yes and you know for me definitely on. I think a very strong trajectory I joined affects as a manager of current series and worked on NIP. Tuck rescue me and the shield which were all incredible pieces of content so formative years for me and certainly you know something on never forget but in total my whole career in Hollywood was five years set against the backdrop of mine now the balance of my life. It was a brief stint. However in those five years I really loved the work. Guess like two thousand and three you're invited to a wedding for a CO worker and You're seated next to this guy named Kevin who would become your husband. Is that more or less. What happened while so these particular people who were getting married had been really big brother and big sister figures in my life and so I was tapped to deliver next from Corinthians at the altar and I did not grow up in a church. I do not know the Bible so there a little bit all around anxious about this particular wedding and I got to the Church and I realized that I didn't bring a copy of the xer. I wasn't sure if it was at the altar and so I thought like okay. I've just said at the end of Pew so I went to the end of a Pew and I asked this guy to move over so that it considered the end and sitting there pretty stressed out and this guy started striking up a conversation with me and that was that and then I went up to the altar and the thankfully my reading there and I got through it and it came back and it was so relieved and the sky turned me. 'cause you're amazing. I'm so proud of you. Remember finally sort of focusing on him for like okay. What is going on? You know like he's just so friendly and not creepy friendly like earnestly just so friendly but didn't even know his name and so he introduced himself as Kevin and I remember standing on the steps of the Church after the ceremony. In you know we're throwing rice at the bride and groom and they were running down the stairs. And I saw him across the way and I thought oh I'll never see him again and we were standing on the lawn at the reception and he brought me over a drink and then I realized like oh no. I'm not actually GONNA get rid of this guy tonight like this. Is You just a fleeting thing and that was it? I I mean that literally was at Kevin and I have been together ever since and at the time I mean he was like a startup guy. Right he was working on. This thing's pronounce assume x Om. It was like a like an international money. Transfer Service right right but you were working at fx networks in L. A. And he's in the bay area so you begin this relationship and he must have been like working insane hours in the startup going around like you know looking for investors and was he. Was He doing all this stuff all the time he was? It actually worked for us to be long distance because during the week he would work twenty four hours a day on zoom from his his loft. They worked literally from this closet. That was off the bathroom in his loft in Soma and I would. Do you know my television thing and not also included going tonight time events and so we just worked really hard during the week and then on the weekends we get together and spend this really quality time together and he would come down and he would go through his eighty five page slide deck for funding and he would attend new movie awards with me and it was just interesting two year. Study in these very different worlds. Did you I mean you eventually. I think cheers into your relationship. You guys decide to get married which meant that one of you would have to move and I guess you decided it was. GonNa be you that you were going to move back to northern California and kind of. Leave your job fx behind. We had a moment where we imagined. I would still work in Hollywood. He would still be working on zoom the doing it somewhat remotely but ultimately what ended up happening is I knew I was in the wrong industry. There was something nagging at me when I would learn more about the tech industry from Kevin or I would see these early ideas come to life and the thing that was nagging at me was something was moving faster than cable. Television and I love velocity. I just felt disruption coming. It just was very clear that something was going to disrupt traditional media and so I thought that I needed to just find a career here in San Francisco that married my experience in television with maybe the future of of media. Yeah that was the plan in so I guess. At the time there was some people remember this. There was this Television channel called current which which was sort of it was partially owned run by Al Gore and its investors involved. And they tried to recruit you right or you. You've found them and considered working working for them. That's right Joe Haden. Al Gore had a great vision and in fact I met with them. I mean it was a it was really exciting and I was offered a you know middle management position on the founding team and then I got the offer and you know the numbers that I remember. Roughly speaking are I was making eighty thousand dollars at affects and they offered me fifty thousand dollars in annual salary to join and I brought the offer to Kevin to get his opinion he just. I saw an opening. I'm not sure how calculated he wasn't this what he just said. You know you could go work on someone else's startup and make less than your worth for sure or you could build something with me and we make no money but at least it's our own and we could even investor owned many and bootstrapping. Something I just really don't know why or how that sounded more compelling but I do think the genesis of why Kevin was so convincing. There is because his optimism was contagious and I thought why not so. Does that mean that he was he was gonNA leave his startup or just stop working there. What happened there was zoom was about five years old at the time and they finally reached a point where it was clear that they were on their way to becoming a grownup. Financial Services Company and Heaven was not interested in being. Ceo of a Financial Services Company. That wasn't his his and game and so he was already transitioning out of zoom and he was starting to look at what he wanted to do. Next what he wanted to build next so he was primed to be an ITA ship phase and now that I know him a lot better than even when I did in two thousand five. I know what that means. So how'd he already come up with an idea that would be involved with ticket sales? No it really wasn't well defined when when I moved up. There were several ideas that he had actually prototype and to some extent had built early versions of one of the things was about this very simple transactional platform to sell tickets to any kind of event and it was really The conversation about why we would go and approach. Ticketing was much much less about industry and more about the notion that experiences are so vital to human beings driving and not became. That was the first idea that we had to work on together. And you know just so happened to stick but I really didn't give it much thought and all of a sudden I was packing up my window office on the forty second floor of Fox Plaza which is the iconic building in century city saying goodbye to this career that was on this uphill trajectory in driving north and literally the next day pushing saw horses and plywood into a windowless phone closet in a warehouse in Protrero Hill where we had gotten some free office space with Kevin and I remember pushing us all hearts behind him thinking. I hope he's not crazy. There's a reason why he's so excited. And I really trust that. There's this reason but there was a little bit of me. That was the key like I really have done this. That was terrifying. Yeah I mean I mean for Kevin this was I think this was his third startup right because he had another company that he sold before launching zoom and then he was also in an early investment paypal. When y'all know how that turned out so really I mean you. You're in a pretty great place because initially I'm assuming you didn't have to raise any money and now you guys could just sort of try to focus on on trying to create a company. That's right I mean it was incredibly fortunate so it's important to know that we spent less than a quarter of a million dollars in the first two years of event bright being up and running operating that. Us was an incredible luxury to be able to invest that type of money into our own company. But we were also really fortunate because we didn't have to moonlight to grow of Empire. And furthermore we are in this space like. I mentioned a warehouse in Protrero Hill. We knew the landlord and he let us be there for free for a certain period of time as long as we let other start-up teams know about the space and so what ended up happening is that we started in the in the phone closet and then we graduated to a conference room and for about a year we are in this conference removes like a fish bowl and bright and I was pregnant during the Times. I kinda visualize this like crazy. Just it wasn't luxuriance. It was very humble. And meanwhile these other start-up team started to know that there's the space and at the height. We had twelve companies in a ten thousand square foot space and we were all very early stages of building these companies. It wasn't an incubator wasn't an accelerator. It was a community and that's a huge part of our story. When when the idea for what event bright would start to take shape in two thousand six like when you describe it to people and they're like hey what are you? What would you say we would say a ticketing platform and I would say that? The one of the most remarkable things that has happened in this journey is that we imagine November eight would be what it is today and that's not because we're clairvoyant. There's a lot of luck that goes into not having to pivot or to completely change your business plan or strategy but we imagine that we could build a self service platform that would allow anybody to sell tickets to any type of event at a really low cost that was accessible and be able to serve the most diverse community of event creators. Explain something to me right In two thousand six which was a ticketing world like was it was it just ticketmaster was that what was out there. Yeah so basically. There was this big void in the market. You know either you were using checks and cash collected at the door and tracking your attendees on maybe excel spreadsheets or by hand or you were using really expensive kind of dinosaur software on the enterprise side. There was no consumer-friendly platform in between that could both give you the tools to be able to create and promote manager event. Ticketing as well as you know be accessible and something that you could afford using As a small organization and so essentially what we're focused on was the SIM B. Market of live events. And we just had absolutely zero idea. How big it was was it. Just you and Kevin. Because I guess you launched this January of twenty two thousand six really start working on in two thousand six is just the two of you you and your your soon to be husband. Well in the fall of two thousand and five or near the end of that year we found our co founding CTO. Because neither of Kevin nor I are engineers. We knew we needed to at least a third to help us start this company and we found. Renova saget through you know he was somebody that Kevin had been somewhat familiar with and he was just coming out of his last company and so it just it all worked out that the timing work that we could all sembler ourselves pretty much by the holidays of two five and then in two thousand six. It's really won't be officially launching at the beginning of two thousand six. I would call Renault. Like the brave man you know in business to start a company with a couple of that's about to get married so like in two thousand six right in. January two thousand six. It was essentially the three of you. And what was of emperor for like a just a regular person like how would you interact with it? Would you at all you would when you bought tickets? So the brilliant part of the model is of course that we had in our primary customer our will we call event creators? They would be promoting the event page. And then you'd have ticket buyers come to that event page and buy tickets and so there was a platform and basic functionality where you could create. An event listing in two minutes. We used to test it on Kevin's father as our first user group and you could promote your event and then you could track your attendees in your ticket. Sales and that was the premise of the first event. Bright product experience and who is using event bright in the early days. Well the the really the I think we focused on building what I would call the. Mvp of our product with tech bloggers who were hosting meet ups and wanted to start charging for these events. And I can't imagine a better user group Sir Tech Bloggers and critics to test your product out on so basically what I did was I took their their needs and wants and their future requests in distilled those into themes and there was a theme around you know being able to publish an event page in in minutes and this friction free easy to use value proposition. There was the promotional aspect of being able to get the word out about your event online without you know a lot of marketing budget and then there was the being able to get to know your attendees when you're collecting cash at the door. You're not obviously understanding who this is. What their email addresses? You're not getting the benefit of customer relationship and so being able to manage your event as you or manager ticket. Sales was the third and so it was really around this create promote manage. And I think that's what made a bright start to grow organically through both word of mouth and then you know paid marketing and we did that for two full years of just three of us and so I mean what was your business pile that time into. Was it going to be? You know. We'll take a fee or a cut because I mean that's how ticketmaster more or less or credit card companies work right so we decided to charge a per paid ticket fee of two and a half percent plus ninety nine cents and we decided to not charge for free tickets. We only charged you when you sold a paid ticket because we figured that would be a great way for people to try out the service and we would undercut any other competitors who are charging subscription fees for for free events or charging a fee per ticket on free event In the early days. Where you really still focused on the San Francisco market like trying to see it. Sounds like there were sort of small events happening. A tech blogger would have a meet up. Who is that where you really kind of focused on the local market? Initially we've really started with that focus however we were very intentional to roll out of them right in a way that could be used by anyone anywhere in the world and what we did. Was We set up this map where we could see where all the ticket sales were happening in real time visualized never forget the day when we discovered that someone was selling tickets to a speed dating event in New York and that was really exciting because it meant that we were crossing Geographical Bounds. So we were breaking out of the bay area as well as format in category bounds so completely non tech related event and it really started to organically spread and it was pretty incredible to watch it happen again not overnight by any means it was over several years and I mean it was certainly in the early days like small money right like people were selling tickets for like five bucks or ten bucks stuff like that right they were. I mean it's interesting that the median ticket price on November. It is around forty dollars so it's actually higher than you would think it's always been within that range and so there are a lot of five dollar ticket events and there were a few hundred dollar events. There were lots of free events. I'll never forget. There was a hundred thousand person. Free Salsa Congress in Mexico City that happened on November eight when we had no business ticketing one hundred thousand person event and it really opened our eyes to how flexible the platform was and we were following our users. They were leading the way. And so all right so you was was the idea initially to just kinda see if you guys could fund it yourselves or or from the beginning. Did you know that eventually you would have to go out and look for funding? We take very incremental approach to everything I think Kevin and I and Renault decided. Hey let's see how far we get in a month and then let's see far we get in a quarter and then let's see how far we get in a year and then we raised a round of friends and family money basically an angel round less than a million dollars and that took us until two thousand eight and we had me be to employees two or three employees who had joined us and then we decided to go raise our first round of institutional money once we knew that we had a business that could become a company and that was two thousand eight. Which is really bad timing. And what do you remember about? I guess because I read you approach like almost thirty different. Vc firms. To remember those meetings. I do I mean I I remember US getting to the point where it made sense for you know the business. We had proven out this. Could this idea could be a business wasn't because we were out of money dried up the balance sheet is more about? We knew that this was now showing signs of being something that we could scale and so we went to road and pitched twenty seven firms. And what do you remember about the questions you were asked by investors? May when you went to VC firms or they like this is amazing is awesome or were they were these poking holes in your business model. At that time. I think that there was an equal amount of confidence or comfort in Kevin's track record. Because again you know. He had founded a company prior to bright. And we had that as an advantage. On the other side there were questions ranging from. How is this going to work for for you to to operate the company as a married couple because investors don't like Mary couples running companies right? I don't know if that's true today and I would say that. If for every positive story like event bright it becomes less of an issue so what we did to address that is we would come into the room and we would just address that question head on without anybody asking us. What would you say we would say? Obviously two of US are married. Here's how we work together. We never work on the same part of the business at the same time and we have complementary skills and we have a set of rules to work through conflict quickly and we didn't. We didn't really go into those roles because they're sort of personal but I think our conviction hopes investors at least not sit there and wonder for really WanNa back a married couple right. The one question that we got about the business was consistently was. How big is the total addressable market? Because if you have the reference point of you're just trying to build a ticketmaster or you're just trying to build a next No so then. What are you trying to do and so we needed to quickly illustrate what we're trying to do who we were building for and why they would by what we built and how big the market was and I would say. There is a very high level of skepticism about how big the mid market of events were back in two thousand eight. I I mean I understand you know back in two thousand eight an investor saying so. Are you guys going to be like the new ticketmaster? Why wouldn't that be a good way to pitch what you were doing? Well it's funny. There's everybody has an opinion about a brand that so well known like ticketmaster but I would. I would simplify it. As the ticketmaster strategy is one part of a live nation strategy which is to be vertically integrated into an event it's large arenas and stadiums that typically serve sports and music but event. Bright is a horizontal platform that enables a wide array of small to medium sized businesses and venues and individuals to be able to sell tickets on an open platform and I think that we've and underestimated the effect that could have an in scaling something. That just didn't really exist in. It's not like it's when people say something didn't exist. You immediately think of entrepreneurs like you are truly creating something that hasn't actually existed but it doesn't always have to be rocket science. It's really about. How do you make something that people want to do even easier? And that's really what we were coming from. We were coming from a point of wanting to empower entrepreneurs to make their businesses stronger and there wasn't a solution like event right at that point. All right so you You go to San Hill Road over. The course of three weeks meet with almost thirty. Vc firms. And I'm assuming you're going there expecting or hoping that You get some checks and how many of these firms wrote you checks well. We went and saw twenty-seven firms and we received twenty seven. Noser NOT RIGHT NOW. So we received zero checks not coming up after the break. Paul strategy that Julia Cabin used to convince some of those. Vc's to give it another shot and also why the founders later took company public even though. Lots of people told them not to do that. Stay with US guy. Arise and you're listening to how I got this from. Npr Hey everyone just a quick thanks to two of our sponsors who help make this podcast possible first Microsoft teams. We all know meetings struggling to pay attention. Files seem impossible to find. And if you're not in the room you're not in the know. Welcome to the new way to work together. Microsoft teams where you can contribute to meetings from anywhere chat with coworkers. Here never at a loop and find all your files. And even edit them in real time in one convenient place when you're ready to unleash. The power of your team open teams learn more at Microsoft Dot com slash teams support also comes from Uber. Uber is committed to safety and to continuously raising the bar to help. Make safer journeys for everyone for starters. All drivers are background checked before their first ride and screened on ongoing basis and now Uber has introduced a brand new safety feature called ride check which can detect a trip goes unusually off-course and check in to provide support to learn more about Uber's commitment to safety visit Uber Dot com slash safety. Listen to planet money for all kinds of weird and interesting stories. That just happened to teach you a bit about money and the economy and how the world works planet money from NPR subscribe now. Hey welcome back to how I built this from NPR. So it's the end of two thousand eight and Juliette Our co-founders just made twenty seven pitches to BC's and none of them are interested in investing in event. But one thing Julia learns is that there are different ways to get rejected when people hear our story hard for them to really imagine. Twenty-seven knows the thing I learned back then. Is it so important to give a fast? No rather than nothing at all because certainly not twenty seven feces did not call us. And say hey you know what it's not for us for these reasons or not right now but would love to see this this and this there was a whole host of ACC just sort of didn't respond at all. So I think that was a really good lesson for me to experience that type of rejection and non rejection rejection to know which one's better so curious about those rejections right because to some extent right when you meet with with investors. You're you're sort of seeking their approval like if they give you money. It's another way of them. Saying we like this idea. We believe in it and here you go but when all twenty seven of them say. We're just not ready to do this right now. A part of you feels and I've had this conversation with other founders party feels like will. Am I wrong like did that ever cross your mind? I'm sure yes I mean I think I remember US. Got Checking whether or not we all. All three of US had the conviction to keep going because we knew that it was going to be tricky. We were out of money like I mentioned so what we did was we left our our two thousand nine operating plan with every vc that we met with and that was sort of seen as you know a little risky because nobody knew what two thousand nine would hold and then our plan. B. was to take a more lean approach to scaling in two thousand nine. Go back and see those. Vc's around the same time in the fall and we hunker down by the way. Let us not forget that we had an infant. You know in in two two thousand eight so I kind of forget that part. I mean there are pictures of us working on our two thousand nine plan you know. And she's like in the corner on a plea Matt so I think we probably were also just to sleep deprived him busy to even have time to worry if that makes sense and so we just kept going and then God we did because two thousand nine ended up being one of the best years of event. Bright's history why what happened and then we had a few unlocked. So one thing that happened was the recession was looming and then finally upon us and we started to see people who had lost their jobs start to use event bright to teach their skills to other people in order to make a living and also social media started to become a real thing. One of the things that happen in two thousand nine is we started to see facebook. Become one of the top ten drivers of traffic to our site so we went and did some investigating. We found out that event creators were using event. Bright to sell tickets but they would then take all of their event details and republished them into facebook as facebook event and link back to the event bright page to sell the tickets and so effectively. We were the commerce engine and they were using facebook as the promotion engine and so we were meeting our event creators and we were solving. The friction are taking the friction away and making it easier for them to promote events on facebook. I'm curious who that year when when the economy is collapsing. Unemployment starts to ratchet up What kind of events where people doing like would it would be somebody who's like I'm an accountant? And I'm holding an event to talk about basic accounting and they would just like you know sell tickets and have people meet at a church hall or something like that. That's exactly right. We had a lot of financial skills courses. I mean just to go. On that example we saw some arise in entrepreneurial type events where folks were selling their independently made goods or teaching say Yoga Certification or networking became You know paid networking events became a big big deal. So at that point we were I think had density in the coast regions of of the US and then we're starting to light up in London and Melbourne and a few other places around the world but it was not nearly as global as it is today when you saw the combination of facebook and the really interesting people losing their jobs and trying to figure out had become entrepreneurial You know host Vanson. Whatever did you guys have a revenue. Goal that you're you said you'd a plan for two thousand nine. Do you remember how much revenue you felt like? You needed to make that year to meet your goal. We always had a revenue goal. So from the first month that we started working on November eight we would have our revenue goal on the white board and every month we would meet in a quasi board meeting to report on our progress against revenue. So What I do know why. I don't have the exact number for two thousand nine in my head. I know gross ticket. Sales was around ten million. Total gross ticket sales gross volume and then derive our fee from that Roughly speaking our fees about three dollars per ticket by our actual revenue or net revenue was much smaller than that. But we were about break even at the start of two thousand nine. We continue to hire so we needed to bridge that gap a bit but I do recollect that. We surpassed the plan that we set for ourselves in two thousand nine. We started pick up steam so we went back to not all twenty-seven probably about twelve of the firms that we felt would be good people to talk to and continue the conversation so you went back to some of these firms armed with data showing them that. Look since we last saw you. We've done ten million dollars in gross to sales assuming the response was different years later it was. I was surprised by how doing what you said you were going to do. Meaning the two thousand nine planned that we'd left with them at the end of two thousand eight was a novel idea because it was met with a lot of. Wow you know I mean it really made just that fact alone in to what you said you were going to do. It was pretty much all we needed to save. I mean obviously there were more questions about what we learned in that year and the market and future plans for growth but it was. It was quite impactful. Were happens to get a check. Yeah it was a quicker process. I think he was. You know maybe four weeks and we're confident enough to say that we are accepting term sheets on a certain date and We've received three term sheets and We raised six and a half million from sequoia capital in that round. So all right so you have this six and a half million dollars you can. You can start to hire lots of people quickly. I guess when. Yeah when we created the plan we were GONNA grow from thirty to one hundred people by the end of two thousand ten and that was breathtaking to me because at least to me my reference point was thirty is a team one hundred company. Let me there's no denying that hundred people's company and you know we could sit around sort of one large table and eat you know from a few pizza boxes as thirty and as one hundred we needed systems and facilities and we needed to get our act together and I felt like we were going to inevitably go through a really tough time scaling from thirty to one hundred people. I wasn't sure how we were going to do that. And maintain this great culture. Did you this is. This is more of a like. I'm just trying to get into your head a little bit I sort of true think of myself in that situation what would I how would I feel? And how would I make decisions right? And you're thirty. Hugh had this huge responsibility. And did you ever have any anxiety over being a leader? I mean all the time you know I I I think most human beings have moments of not feeling old enough or prepared enough were experienced enough to be in a place of authority. I think if you're a parent you feel that way I think if you're a leader you feel that way and I didn't let it get in my way I think building something from scratch allows you to expand and grow with the progress. That's why when I look at at other companies that have had this sort of hockey stick growth through just that rocket ship. That would be difficult. I'm wondering did chew and Kevin Ever have tension or fights. Arguments may not. I would imagine that given that. He'd run businesses and practical way of doing things. I mean that there might have been times where you weren't doing it the way he thought it should be done. And was there tension. I mean I would think that would be normal. There's definitely been tension. I think less than you would imagine so. We were very intentional when we started the company and we set a few rules as I mentioned and one of them was if we ever were frustrated or at an impasse. We would stop what we are doing. Turn the lights off and I'm not kidding. Lay down on the ground and hold hands and talk about it. Wow this is when we didn't have an office mate okay so obviously. We're not doing that today. I mean we do that at home. Technique I'm GONNA try that. Yeah so ridiculous that it would break the tension and if we could even you know stop laughing we would talk through. It was really going on but you know that was a great mode for us in the very early days when we are scaling the company to one hundred and two hundred and three hundred and he was the president. I think we were just really good at not. Having disagreements in front of people and dealing with out on our own time and we're very strong communicators with each other. And so for any co-founder team. I think it's really important to understand that you know it. To openly debate is one thing but to disagree or have beef with each other in front of your employees because it's just not productive that's the guiding principle that we used. I think now for quite some time Julia once you you guys had a lot of capital to work with was that I mean did you start to really take off. At that. Point was it was a growth year after year after year of growth. Because I know you twenty twelve you hit your fifty million tickets sold and And then you do a billion dollars in total gross ticket sales at your next two billion dollars. I mean it sounds. I don't mean for this. To sound seamless and easy. But it sounds like that was it. I mean you guys were just on this growth trajectory. We're off to the races for sure I mean again. One of the unique things about it is that we haven't had to pivot. We are doing exactly what we intended to do. And lots of things change new technologies change but the actual concept is exactly spot on to what we had intended to build for for the event. Creator community One of the things. That was remarkable for me to observe was just the validation of having a sequoia capital come in seemingly kind of how easy it was to raise after that with their seal of approval And I think that we took advantage of that. We raised a private capital. Sometimes when we didn't need it because we wanted to ensure that we would have when the bottom fell out again the if we were doing the movie version of them bright at this point you know be like the next year two billion and four billion in sales and then ten billion ticket Sales Twenty Fifteen Kevin he decides to take a leave as CEO and there was temporary. Initially I guess he had a medical condition and then he basically says you know what I actually want to Step down and you become CEO in two thousand sixteen at that point after imagine it. It probably felt like the right. Natural seamless move for you or were you or were you. I don't know was any part of you hesitant You know I wasn't hesitant to step up because it was the right thing for the company. Mind you we also were dealing with life right. So it's it's there's the steward of doing. What's right for the company? And also we also needed to put Kevin's health first and foremost and I needed to wear both hats. Which was wife and co-founder and that was that was a really really difficult time. He's okay now. Of course he's healthy right doing well. He's great. Yeah I think I think he's a testament of why it's so important to put your health. I Yeah I think that you know for us. It's you know. Life is very very short and while we've been lucky enough knock on wood to not lose. You know any loved ones too early. Just to some extent it's a little bit of a blur but it wasn't a joyful time. Let's that way. I wasn't stepping into this role with a smile on my face per se. Maybe it was a brave smile. You know behind the scenes. I was terrified. Yeah so you step up you become the CEO by twenty eighteen me. Revenues were about two hundred and ninety million dollars That year September that year event broncos public you go you take the company public Was this sort of like you know you hear when when founder start a company this area wealthy investors want an exit. So they're going to be a sale or you go public. Was that the point. You reach where you know your investors news return and so this was a way to do it. You know it was always part of our plan to go public meaning. We wanted it to be a public company. And so this wasn't an agenda was brought on to us by our investors. Rather you know our own agenda Burgess. I'm curious about going public because that is a a different kind of stress and I mean all of a sudden. It's not just a private company and you're answering to the board and investors. Now it's you are a publicly traded company with thousands and thousands of shareholders. I s CEOS and entrepreneurs who taking companies public all the time like. Why would you want that stress? And also you're answering to a whole new constituency now. Yeah I mean I have thought about that. A lot and I guess like to back up for a minute. I heard I. I don't think ever once heard in the nine months. We were preparing to go public. That going public was a good idea. Everybody said don't do it. Everyone said don't go. Public by the process of going. Public was really helpful for us. It forced us to codify who we are. And what we're building and why people are buying what we're building and what our strategy is for the future and it's not as if we weren't doing those things I think along the way as you're scaling and building an evolving that can get a little bit fuzzy around the edges. I loved the crispness. That was the output of the work that we did on the IPO and the impact that had on the company and so when we did go public a wad of what's happened to us in the last year is basically what everybody was talking about. But it's it hasn't caused any or add some context because you mentioned what happened over the past year and we're we're having this conversation at the end of twenty nine thousand nine yet and I think the day that your stock debuted is twenty three dollars. I think ended that day at like thirty. Almost thirty four dollars it was. It was a great first day and today the stock price is down to a little under twenty dollars a share. And that's the question I have right. There's a whole visibility that is right. I mean that's stressful right. People are and you've got Cheryl saying hey. Why is a stock down? What's going on why I bought it for thirty five dollars an hour to nineteen dollars and and you know what do you say? Believe me one of the most painful situations in my life has yet to be resolved. Which is this wonderful man who works at the hotel next to our office. And he's such a kind man and he bought into our IPO. You know bought stock and so I get I see him. Every day in visually visually reminded of the loss that he incurred. And that for me. Is You know a great motivator and and but I look at it as it's my responsibility to grow the value of event bright. And if you can't take the heat of that responsibility then you absolutely shouldn't be a public company. Ceo and I think I'm always learning something new and certainly this year has been a year of learning lots and lots and lots of new things but I not hating the game rated stat I. It's really like something that we chose is wide open and so I don't spend any time lamenting about being a public company. I think that's so boring and unoriginal when you are how many people were for them right now around the world. Roughly eleven hundred. Wow so I mean that's I mean that's a serious number of people that you're the CEO. You're the boss It it seems to me that you are probably better structured to withstand economic headwinds. Which everyone says is going to happen. Because you've already been there because it's not. You're not making a product that people buy. It's something that is a people will need whether the economy is good or bad. Why think we benefit from the innate? Human BEHAVIOR OF GATHERING. And the fact that we've been doing it for thousands of years for sure and the global nature of live experiences. I would say that where I worry is we. Yes have seen really bad times. We were very small back then. And my my responsibility to a million van creators and eleven hundred Brightlingsea and thousands of shareholders is an order of magnitude larger than the responsibility we had in two thousand eight hundred thousand nine. What which was to Austin a few folks so it's different and certainly. I don't think event bright is completely impervious to another big economic meltdown. But I feel pretty confident that that will be able to weather. The storm Whatever storm whatever shape that may be or category You know it's it's anyone's guess at this point. Although everybody seems to know that it's coming hell you left your job and two thousand five and here you. Are you know? Public Company? Eleven hundred plays valued at one point. Eight billion dollars How much of this do you think is because you really are smart really hard? And how much of it do you attribute to? Just being lucky I would say that seventy percent of this was work ethic and staying focused and I would say thirty percent is about luck and whether that's luck of you know meeting the love of my life and Co founder and Co Parent Back on that fateful day in May of two thousand three at a wedding or the luck of finding really wonderful people to build this company. I think there's a lot of a fortune and that comes to people and it's about what they do with it and I think the other way around to when you hit hard times or a you feel unlucky you have to put it onto perspective and there's always something to fill lucky for Julia. Hartz Co founder and CEO of Event Right Event. Bright has fourteen offices around the world the platform powers millions of events. Cheer which is kind of impressive but for Julia's kids. The thing that makes their mom truly impressive. What she did in college working on the set of friends my daughter my eleven and a half year old. Who's watching friends like? It's a show that she just discovered. Watch my husband said. Did you know Mommy worked on the set of Friends? And Yeah so now. That is one of those where I feel kind of pool with her now. I'm like wow and please do stick around because in just a moment we're going to hear from you about the things your building but first a quick message from our sponsor colour toilets with smart features ranging from warm water cleansing automatic air freshening colour. Intelligent toilets are designed to provide an elevated experience more at Kohler Dot com slash. Intelligent toilets check out our daily crash course in economics the indicator in less than ten minutes. We tackle important topics like unemployment. The housing crisis and how Justin Bieber saves the Icelandic economy. Npr's the indicator from planet money. Listen now hey thanks for sticking around because it's time now for how you built that and today our story starts with Tomoe Delaney who for twenty years had a dream job in the fashion industry. He traveled the world hang on beaches with glamorous models went to lots of cool parties the whole thing but around twenty ten. Thomas was ready to walk away by Ray reached a point where I thought there's Mussalli's than standing in a studio listening twelve people discuss. Which pair of shoes should be put without dress and at that point would tomoe wanted to do more than anything else was to just? Pindad to stay at home with his kids in New York so he did and he loved everything about his new life accepts mealtimes because both of his kids Davey dot were super picky eaters. I spend my time looking at the kids. Food options in whole foods wondering whether there's anything on those shelves they woody. Tomoe would sometimes talk about his mealtime struggles with an older friend named Peggy and one morning. Peggy had an idea for him. She said I was watching shot last night and to women's successfully pitched an idea for neon colored edible and it was full of artificial colors and flavors and she said so. I started to think about what would be a healthier version of this. You know kids respond to color. So how do we get into respond to food by color but food? That's healthy within a day. Tomoe and Peggy came up with an idea to take fruit and pulverize it into brightly colored pure as kind of like the consistency of Syrup but without all the sugar the we immediately thought the yellow is going to be the reds going to be strawberries on the flu is going to be blueberry. Thr- idea was to put the pureed fruit into these squeeze tubes and then kids could paint with it onto their food. It is on one level a paint set. Even though ultimately it is just a councilman fame specifically a children's remember. Thomas only professional experience up to that point was in the fashion industry. We had no idea how to get into the food industry and we didn't know that we need a CO packer. I didn't know we needed a food scientist. I was making this stuff in my kitchen. Literally buying pounds of organic fruit from the local health food store and pure inequality in art and Thomas First. Big Challenge was getting the pureed to the right consistency so it would work as paint not too thick not to run so eventually through a connection. He found a food scientist to help them come up with a formula and he was sending me samples on refrigerated boxes and I distinctly remember. There was one very very hot day. I go to box from Fedex from him and I opened it and it was full of these little top web parts and he mixed the fruit puree fifty fifty with coconut oils. And it was slopping around like Sala Salad dressing that it settled and I just thought this is a disaster. My God what is going on here. But within a few months tomoe found another food scientists who used some natural additives to get consistency they needed and then with some donations from friends and family. Tomoe found a factory in Canada to put the puree into tubes. He called it Nashi food paint and finally he was ready to test it. What we did was just rely on friends. We relied on literally dots friends from school and parents to say would you video? You'll kids drawing with the staff and tasting the stuff and that first group of kids like the naturally sweet taste of the fruit and as you might expect. They really liked drying under food. What was the Smiley? Faces is lots of smiles son made of peaches so at this point a contact in the food industry had given them a list of thirty one fires at a national grocery chain so tom picked up the phone and made that very nerve wracking. I call and I said Hi. It's Tomo from Sheen's I'm calling about. I was wondering whether you've got the sampler. She said there's a pause on the line and she said Yeah I did yes. I kind of went downhill from there. She said I don't really understand the idea behind it. I don't really understand the execution I'm not sure about the packaging and she just went on and on and a lot of my heart was thinking lower anyway. Tom Eventually got into some stores about three years. Went by where he did not get a lot of traction with Nashi but then just last year. He was at a food expo and met a guy from Walmart and from that meeting. He eventually got the food. Paint into a hundred and seventy-six walmarts across the country. It did fifty five thousand dollars in sales last year and by next year tomoe is hoping to turn a profit sometimes. It's felt like I've been fighting my way very steep hill in the middle of rain storm in the pitch darkness. And there's trees blowing down the hill towards me and driving rain but I'm still climbing the hill. That's Tomoe Delaney. The founder of Nashi for kids tear or previous episodes head to our podcast. Page how I built this. Npr Dot Org. Of course if you WANNA tell us your story go to build that. Npr Dot Org. And thanks so much for listening to the show. This week you can subscribe at Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts. And while you're there please do give us a review you can also write to us at NPR DOT Org. And if you WANNA send a tweet at how I built this at Guy Raj. Our show was produced this week by Casey Herman with music composed by Ram teen air. Bluey thanks also to Candice Limb Julia Carney Niba Grant Jeff Rodgers and Sequoia Carrillo. Our intern is rainy. Toll on Cairo's and you've been listening to how I built this this is NPR.
The Not-So-Crystal Clean History of San Franciscos Drinking Water
"Hey guys, it's a Livia on price. And this is bay curious. I want to tell you about one of my favorite spots in the bay area. It's just a few miles from where I live in San Mateo, the crystal springs. Reservoirs. Are these two perfectly clear blue lakes, that are surrounded by miles and miles of rolling green hills? They stretch as far as the I can see if you've driven through the peninsula onto eighty you've seen what I'm talking about off to the west now. I love this spot for the way the fog, rolls over the hills in the afternoons and just how blue the water is next to the green hills it all, so pristine untouched natural, but it's entirely manmade. Today on bakeries. We're getting your questions about the crystal springs. Reservoirs. How are they made who made them and why can't we hike more of that area? Stick around. Support for bay curious comes from Sierra Nevada brewing company, family owned operated and argued over since nineteen eighty reminding listeners to think for themselves. But drink with others. Sierra Nevada dot com. When Jackie Nunez, moved to San Mateo from Santa Barbara, she couldn't help, but notice the crystal springs, reservoirs. I moved here, quite recently, maybe two years ago. So I'm really curious about just the history of this land and getting to know my surroundings, Jackie studied environmental science in college. So maybe it's no wonder this was her question for us. What's the story behind crystal springs? There's not much information about it online other than that. It's a man-made reservoir to in fact built a long time ago. Fellow peninsula, denizen, Rachel myrow joins us for a journey into the nine three. Hey. Okay. Enough of that Rachel. So what's the story who built crystal springs when why how I want to know it all will let me take you back to the gold, rush for the full back story. You may recall from history class that the gold rush hit San Francisco. All of a sudden gold is discovered at Sutter's mill in early. Eighteen forty eight and with a couple of years, what was a sleepy duck town population for sixty or thereabouts swells into a city of Twenty-one thousand BoomTown, exactly. But this BoomTown said tiny spit of land surrounded by salty water on three sides, and what did they drink mostly whiskey? No for water will there were are quite a few freshwater creeks in San Francisco, but nowhere near enough to satisfy the needs of Twenty-one thousand thirsty people clever businessman made personal fortunes bringing water in from Marin county by barge, and then sending horses and donkeys around the city dragging barrels of water. I just want to say that's the sound of a donkey sneezing. It's coming from the front end of the donkey and annoyed. Donkey from the sounds of it, but I guess I would be pretty annoyed too. If I was having to drag barrels of water up San Francisco's hills and, you know, given our climate here in California there along stretches when there's no rain that Marin WADA was expensive to begin with but during dry times in the eighteen fifties. A buck and a water just a bucket could cost you a gold dollar, which today would be worth around three hundred dollars. I mean this was a big entrepreneurial opportunity. That's Mitch postal, the president of the San Mateo county historical association. Postal says it didn't take long before a handful of speculators started looking at water south of the city on what we call today, the peninsula was a series of farms, there was a stagecoach road that ran through the middle. And really the only outstanding thing that you would have found is the stage coach stop which became a pretty elaborate hotel. L for its day, the bristles hotel. In particular. There was a guy named George Anson who saw all those mountains and streams around the hotel on the farms, and pictured gold dollar sides in eighteen Fifty-eight. He joined group of like minded investors who pushed for stronger eminent domain law in the state legislature, they succeeded, and then in eighteen sixty ensign incorporated, the spring valley waterworks later changed company, which proceeded to buy up those farms and the hotel hold up a minute, isn't eminent domain, where the government takes your land to build a road or something like that? That's how I understand it today. But this eighteen fifty eight adjustment to state law. Explain a little bit more it empowered. Private water companies specifically to acquire land and water by purchase and condemnation, very convenient for the spring valley water company, a lot of times it would enlist the eight of the courts. When people got wise, to what they were doing and might have the lands condemned a ten cents on a dollar. I mean, they weren't above any kind of method in order to get land that they needed because they wanted to have watershed, not just curious for the water what they wanted to be able to protect the water. And so, in order to do that you're talking about on our peninsula, twenty thousand acres twenty three thousand actually and San Mateo counties, creeks, can channel a lot of water in the rainy season that sound I recorded during a reason rainy season of creek on the Stanford campus. Do you just like go round recording? Sounds that might work for pay curious episode someday. Yes, yes, they do know. Okay. Olivia, are you old? And after a member of movie called Chinatown. Not raining about no made in nineteen seventy four one of the greatest more films of all time. Sorry. Or laid out for your Jack Nicholson plays private by on the trail of a rich guy who makes dark deal to steal farmers water for thirsty. Urbanites in Los Angeles. China tone. Forget it Jake. It's crystal springs. That's good. You've got the right idea. A lot of people are familiar with the story of a dirty water deal that launched as megalopolis back in the day, but something similar happened up here. I with the spring valley water company, the state's most powerful and privately owned monopoly of its day, so like PGA today. It was a monopoly. I mean probably had even more latitude in what it could do than PG. In a Mitch postal says the company was, hey, in San Francisco politicians their scheme for decades to take it out of private hands. But why would the city want to buy a water company? Well, in addition to the fetid scent of political corruption and dubious land, dealings, the water quality and service, San Francisco were said to be pretty awful and expensive and as time went on those giant estates on the peninsula that were springing up. Required growing amounts of water beyond the reservoirs of the crystal springs, watershed. So the spring valley water company expanded into the Alameda creek watershed on the other side of the bay making farmers. They're angry, too. It took San Francisco until nineteen thirty to finally rest control of the company from those fat cat land barons. And that's when the city started bringing water in from Yosemite. Oh, hetchy one on the same the hetch hetchy regional water system. Run by the San Francisco public utilities commission, which is another story while I have you here ritual listeners have sent in a few other questions about the crystal springs, reservoirs. Over the years, rupee sing has noticed a few private homes sort of around the reservoir? And what's no, how that's allowed Olivia? This is what you could consider one of the greatest municipal perks in the bay area. There's a handful of homes that are residences for the families of watershed keepers and supervisors the rent. There is not market rate. But they'll tell you somebody's gotta live on the land. Watch it and protected from trespassers, and so on speaking of trespassers that gets us tour next question, which is from Royal works who wants to know why all those beautiful hills all around the reservoir aren't open to the public for hiking biking, and such will part of the watershed is open. There's the crystal springs, regional trail it's going to be seventeen miles long. Totally finished fifteen miles open. Now running the length from San Bruno to Woodside, this trail says more than three hundred twenty five thousand visitors annually including babies in strollers and horses. But most of the watershed is not open to the public, right? This is right. There's a group called open the SF watershed. I've covered them before. They're trying to get more public axes on that land. But they haven't been able to crack the resistance, which includes not just the San Francisco public utilities commission, but also a member of. Local environmental groups, who would rather keep human interference on that land to a bare minimum. Alright Rachel I wrote thank you for the low down. Oh, is a pleasure. Live yet. Thanks also to Jackie union as ruby sang, and Raul works for their questions this week. If you're digging the curious podcast, please let your friends know about us word of mouth is the number one way that people find our show. So it would mean a lot, if you could, you know, to friend mentioned us on social media, maybe write our name on the bathroom wall of your local dive bar really will literally take anything. Thanks in advance bay curious is made in San Francisco at K. Q E D. I'm Alan price.
Why Are There So Many Crows in the Bay Area?
"Chances are good. That is a familiar sound. Crows Corvus Brockie wrinkles, if you wanna get scientific about it are often unwanted urban. Neighbors crows are thought to be loud, pesky aggressive even sinister. And they're the subject of questions, we got from San Mateo listener, Kevin branch, there are so many grows around nowadays, are they pushing out the old normal birds that I grew up with the, the Blue Jays? The mocking birds. The red wing blackbirds the birds, I used to grow up listening to when I woke up in the morning. I'm alluvial in price. You're listening to the bay curious podcast today. Works flooring, the rise of the crow will answer Kevin's questions and explain to you. Why crows have lots of fans to? Support for bay curious comes from Sierra Nevada brewing company, family owned operated and argued over since nineteen eighty reminding listeners to think for themselves. But drink with others, Sierra Nevada dot com. Okay, so Kevin has a few questions for us. Are there more crows? Are they pushing out other birds? And is there a plan to reduce their populations? We asked K cuties, Dan Brady, who has a fascination with just about everything including the natural world to take a stab at answering them. So Dan, what did you got for us? So let's just say Kevin is not imagining things. I visited him at work. He works for theatrical, rigging company down in Redwood City. He says, it's the same thing every day, crows, lots and lots of crows. I see them in the morning. I see him in the afternoon. I see him up in trees. I see him on the ground. I see him on top of buildings in there everywhere I kind of feel like the crows taken over big time. And you know, to establish his credit we asked Kevin to do a cau- himself and he does pretty good. One. Barroga. Kevin's. Right. We're seeing a lot more crows these days spoke with Bob Lewis, who helps run the Golden Gate, autumn society's annual Christmas bird, count, just took a look at the count today, starting with two thousand and there were a hundred and sixty seven crows then in our circle, so that circle he's talking about covers Oakland and a large part of the East Bay for line in hells, and the Christmas bird count involves about three hundred people coming out, just for that one count in that East Bay area to count all the birthday can of whatever species in twenty four hours and it's the biggest count in the US is, actually, the biggest count in the world. So as Bob told us, we started with one hundred sixty seven crows in the year two thousand two thousand to two hundred fifty. So when significantly two thousand five there were four hundred at twenty ten there was over thousand twenty. Fifteen almost fifteen hundred and twenty eighteen there were, there were almost twenty five hundred crows so from one hundred sixty seven crows to twenty five hundred in less than twenty years. That's fifteen times as many now not everywhere in the bay area has seen that kind of spike, for instance, south bay crow population seemed to have fallen in the Christmas bird count over the last decade, because of a spike in West Nile virus, but John Mars love university of Washington wildlife biologist says the pattern of dramatically increasing crow populations is really a familiar one. That's a common trend for a lot of corvettes across the western US for sure that word he said is corvettes. That's a family of birds. That includes crows and ravens the crows bigger cousins. And that's another species whose numbers have grown dramatically in recent years. Okay. So we clearly have more crows at least in most parts of the bay area. Kevin also wanted to know why so the people who watch the birds say there's an equation with two major parts. Hear the first part has to do with work pros are not very welcome. Here's Bob Lewis. Again pros historically have inhabited the countryside. The farmers put up scarecrows and crows eat corn. But in the countryside, crows get shot to and crows, have, perhaps discovered that in the cities and towns, it's a much safer place to be. That sound from one of the many many, many crow hunt videos, you can find online listening to that you can't really blame crows for feeling like they're not welcome out in the country. A hundred years ago, a company in the amunition industry launched eight national crochet extensively to get rid of a threat to crops and other birds and this wasn't just something that was happening out in the country. San Francisco's Golden Gate park employed, a hunter usually a city cop to shoot crows and other unwanted animals. Like Jays and coyotes. California clothes are fair game in most rural areas from December first to the beginning of April in twenty fifteen California, hunters reported killing about thirty five thousand crows. I. But on friendly, humans are just one factor that has led to more crows becoming city-dwellers. I think it's kind of simple myself. It's basically we provided more food for them now the reasons for that might be more complex because it includes things like garbage like fast food restaurant waste like road, kill's, you know. So there's a lot of ways we provide them food. But that's the bottom line. That's why they're more abundant. But haven't we city tillers always been pretty messy? I mean, just think about those, you know, open garbage dump so they used to have on the edge of every big city if garbage was attracting crows. Why wasn't that way? Before I asked John Mars that exact question, and he came up with an interesting response. It has to do with really looking at how we settle our cities, you don't have to have a dump. I mean, I think actually in terms of territoriality, and increasing the breeding population, it's better to have food. More uniformly distributed are urbanized area is much, much larger. Than it used to be. And we're providing rich dependable sources of food from lawns to leftovers more food allows co populations to become more dense, they only defend enough space, that's necessary to get enough food to raise their young and, and survive. So as more foods available they can live in tighter and tighter quarters, and you can fit more of them into the place. So now we know that we do have more crows, and we have a few ideas about why next question are they killing other species of birds like those songbirds that Kevin remembers? Well, one of the crow people I talked to his name Kaley, swift, she's really interesting wildlife scientist, who has done lots of research on crows, and she says that there are limited circumstances, where usually because of things we do to make an area attractive. Crows crows can be pretty hard on endangered species, but your standard suburban backyard in LA, or Seattle or New York or anywhere else. In the country, not so much, most people that contact me feeling like the crows wiped away all of the birds in their neighborhood. The scientist does not back that up. So research does not show that crows are remorseless killers. And if there are, in fact, fewer songbirds and win Kevin grew up. It could be for many reasons loss of habitat predators, like squirrels, and even our domestic cats. So it sounds like crows have kind of gotten a bad rap. And when you talk to a researcher like Kaley, swift, she comes back at you with a long list of the birds winning qualities, their ability to learn our faces and be pretty excited when they see if you've built up a relation of positive relationship with them, by feeding them, for example, these birds are smart. They're inventive. They use tools. They play the you can watch them play games. The kick Eulalie the young birds their videos, online of them playing in the snow, for instance, kind of charismatic goofy in the way like. Dog with a really strong personality as they raise their young and are very, very loyal and attached to their young watch that these things that are so interesting that you just can't kind of can't help like fall in love with them. Dant. They sound like Cubans. Yeah. They do sound like humans, Katie swift says that actually could be the source of some of our problems with them. We may see a little bit too much of us in them. They're quivers that they're able to outsmart some of the ways that we might be trying to keep them out of our garbage or out of our property. I keep coming back to this thing. John Mars lift said when I asked him. Well, what do we do about crows? And he said, it's important to remember that crows are sentient beings, like us, and that we ought to learn to use our big human brains to discover and address the problems, we have with a growing crow population if we need to control them in places. We need to think hard about it like they think about how the live with us, we need to think about how to live with them and come up with strategies that will have meaningful affects on their population. Not just kill a bunch of them. He's talking about things like being really serious about managing our garbage. And even doing things like being very careful to get rid of road kill as soon as we see it because that's dinner for crow. But mostly it sounds like we just need to learn to coexist with CROs and maybe even see the good in them. You know, that's exactly what I think, too, after doing this research, crows actually have had a long term relationship with people that has showed up for instance, in native American mythology and crows are an inspiration for artists, particularly poets. We found a book called a bird black as the sun, which is just poems, by California poets about these crows, and what they say about this world around us and beyond all that. I'm not sure we really have a choice, but to learn to coexist. I love that there's a poetry book of crows doing listen to one of those on the way out, absolutely great. But I thank you reporter, Dan Brekke for all your reporting this week. You're welcome. And also a big thanks to our question. Esker Kevin branch break your. Has made in San Francisco at K. Q E, D, Allen price. Okay now for that poem. Early morning crow by Jim NATO crows, have no shame. They call at six AM expect a response from the windows, reflecting overcast skies. Wait for an echo to return across the canyon for the bottle to wash up on shore. The telephone to ring the empty half of the bed to fill. You cannot throw a boot at them like sex struck cartoon cats yowling back lit, by the moon cannot shoo them like pie faced pasture. Cows, ruminating with the intensity of low. Watt bulbs, the crows wake you too early. And there, you are an overdue Bill over right Mellon alone, with your thoughts Slough sing back through the gates, you had to lower by hand the night before cranking, rusty cogs and wheels. So you could get some sleep the bed floods, and you rise afloat with black wings, spread like oil upon. The surface, a near fatality, the cold almost got wet through and hearing a solitary crow that crooks is anybody. There is anybody there, then flies away before you can form a suitable answer.
721: The Walls Close In
"Support for this American life comes from capital one right now you can earn one hundred, thousand bonus miles. You can actually use redeemable for vacation rentals, car rentals, and more when you spend twenty thousand dollars in your first year with the capital. One Venture Card. What's in your Wallet Limited time offer terms apply see capital one dot com for details. Support for this American life comes from Sierra Nevada Brewing Company family owned operated and argued over since one thousand, nine, hundred, eighty proud supporter of independent thought whether that's online over the air or in a can or bottle more at Sierra Nevada dot com. Quick, warning there are curse words that are unbeaten today's episode of the show. If you prefer beep version, you can find that at our website this American Life Dot Org. Is this thing that happens in the first episode of the TV show watchman which I finally saw last month I'm behind. A woman is driving with her son on a sunny day and suddenly the sky darkens and squids drop from the sky. Like a hail storm or something, but they're little squids, each one are not going to be a finger. Cars on the road over and wait squids land on them and on the ground making the SOG equator of squid on the road. And then soon, enough. Again like hailstorm. It stops. Sun comes back up everybody starts to car again has ever the heading just like the most normal thing in the world. No big deal just another squid drop. And when I saw that I felt like that is exactly how things happen like that's how things feel. That's what everything feels like right now. Inconceivable. Stuff goes down all the time these days. And it's like. You can get used to anything. You know what? I mean every few days more Americans. Die From covid than died in nine eleven. Wildfires are raging and continue to just read the president won't disavow white supremacists and a televised debate like. I'm used all that like since daily life you know. With. Is this example of you can get used to anything Jay was having a normal stressful day for twenty twenty meeting. He does his job from his apartment on a computer at his kitchen table and zoom, but he's also got a deal with his children during the workday. So couple weeks ago he's a college professor and he's preparing lecture for class and he's anxious about that. You want to be good, and then at three o'clock, he has to go run get his kids and bring them home and he and his kids get back to their building at three twenty and he's trying to move quickly because his class starts at three thirty. And he and his kids get on the elevator to head up to department. And then all of a sudden I feel the elevators to drop. It's like a half second feeling like when you're in a roller coaster. And thankfully, it stops high partying guys drop. I don't know probably a couple of stories. You dropped a few stories. Yeah and I look and it stuck at the third floor. The. Push Button to call for help and they're told somebody's going to be there to fix things but it's GonNa take a while. and. They wait. And my kids are starting to bicker with one another and my daughter starts getting upset she's eight years old and part of what's happening Jay says, is that her big brother? Who is ten years old been stuck in an elevator once before when he was little so he's being on the big deal. He was not rattled at all, and in fact, she starts to get upset he starts to. Tell her that she's overreacting and that makes more upset. and. So I like calm her down and and tell him to stop teasing her and and then we took a couple days and we you know I. tried to like make it like a fun thing. We're GONNA remember look back on and laugh on and so that kind of changed the mood in the elevator a little bit least briefly. To kids momentarily. Okay. Jay gets back to the other urgent matter that's on his mind his class to over three hundred students is big intro psychology class which still has not started. There's still just enough time from too quickly tap out a message on his phone dear Class I'm currently trapped in an elevator in my apartment building. So join the zoom call and start teaching once I'm safely out of here. Percent Message goes out and then. Nothing right. They just stay put. In J starts to worry about his students who are waiting for him on the zoom. Call. Ten Minutes Pass Twenty And half an hour in. This is going to try to teach the class. On his fall. From the elevator. which takes a little like technical wrangling he has to download zoom to his phone with barely one bar of service. Bob. Okay. This is boring but after a while okay, no video voice only he's in and I joined zoom class. And I'm trying to talk to them and I can hear their voices and the students read Chit chatting with themselves and I can hear them speculating about what might be happening to me. They're laughing. And I'm trying to get their attention and they're all talking and they couldn't hear me and so I'm shouting at this. It's me it's Jay. I'm here. Hi Guys. So in the elevator, what's happening is you're a grown man shouting into his phone is that right? Yeah, and eventually here to which I think I hear our professor think he's back. is like a moment of panic like what am I going to say and then he launches in? But no none of his slides. He gives the lecture that he planned. And I can't see them and they can't see me but it was working it was it was all kind of coming back to me and I was able to deliver it and I had their attention. So search seem normal. Yeah it starts to seem normal. Yeah. Eventually I'd adapted my kids are being quiet they're listening can I ask you? Do you remember how long it took like how many minutes did it take? Before this started seem normal. I'd say about four or five minutes. Four or five minutes. We are very adaptable creatures. Enough the elevator starts to move again jake, it's back to his apartment says down at the kitchen table while zoom and a couple of hundred kids from his kitchen, which of course is also totally weird. But after months of doing that, it feels totally normal. Hey, did you consider not doing the class? Did you consider canceling? It's funny because. That night I when I told my partner about this, she's like, why don't you just cancel she's a professor, but it's one of those things where it didn't cross my mind when I was in the situation my mind early in the day had been focused on like being able to navigate this complex situation that was going to be stressful. You know getting my kids and getting home and then getting the lecture ready, which had been prepping all day. So that had determined each little step by mate and I never really stopped to think that. I just don't do it. Obvious right now. Lives here are so strange and we just do the next task and the next one after that and the next one after that, we do not think about how weird things have gotten. Each little step naturally led to the next step, and then it wasn't until I left the situation hours later I was like looking at it in realising how absurd it was. WBZ Chicago this American Life America last day on our program people trapped in small spaces stuck in a situation. And coping because they have no choice. J I think it's pretty clear was not too bothered by a short time in the elevator but in our other stories today, it is people who are stuck in a small space for way longer in the first half of our program, we have a story where things get pretty dire. And the second half, it's not nearly so difficult it musicians who are confined to a tiny space for years and comfortably tiny space and can I say things are pretty weird there to? Stay. With us. The people up the stairs. So we start today with a couple who've been penned into a small space for months now hiding in an attic because lives are on the line surrounded by musty furniture and stacks both paintings at a collecting dust. Kevin talked to them about the truly jaw dropping story of how they got there. The attic has creaky wood floors in one small window, but they try not to go close to it. They don't WanNa be seen. The ceilings are low Moi SAS who six one has to. Crouch Jessica's fine. They spend their time obsessing over not being heard. They try not to talk above a whisper or walk on the creaking floorboards even sleeping stressful when another Mammo moist? Wrong. WHEN WE SLEEP MOISTURE SNORTS And it scares me in an and sometimes I wake up in the night when I hear that he's snoring I say Moi says try not to Snore but I don't think it's something that is under his control, but it still bothers me because it's something that I don't think you should do. Then yes. Kids the you have to worry about every noise you guys made. Yeah. We have to be like ghosts in this House on. Will. How many SAS and Jessica ended up in this attic it goes back to how they met. It was twenty sixteen on an anti-government. What's up group? They were both activists against the regime of Daniel, Ortega who has ruled Nicaragua on and off for forty years. Then they started seeing each other at protests in meetings. Jessica saw the Nerdy Guy Unafraid to go on national television were mask with the president's face on it an ex over the mouth demanding freedom of expression. Moiseyev's saw the woman with the big Brown eyes often last person to back down the police showed up. That one protest when two hundred police closed in on a group of maybe twenty protesters Moi Sas, looked for a place to run. But then he saw Jessica in another woman walk right up to the armed officers in start yelling in their faces. So I kinda got brave. went to the frontline is then what they're? Doing the same thing. It's kind of like a crazy moment to start a relationship with someone like you're in the middle of basically like a firing line with this girl that you started dating. Yeah. That is a if they're. GonNa. A Happy Right now at least. They got married in we acid. Dr Jessica Daughter Camilla. He got a job at a sprint call center talking to people from the States all day Jessica worked for a company that made solar panels. But still their relationship was built around their activism. One parent picked up at school while the other organized a rally or held a press conference at home near the little girls pile of toys, they kept masks for teargas. But the government's response got harsher. The regime began kidnapping opponents. Moi Sas, was grabbed by four or five men in unmarked cars and taken to Elchi put an infamous prison documented by human rights groups as being state run torture site. A warning this next bit includes descriptions of violence. There would have hitting me in the head and the. Legs and they said we're going to. Circa you're never GONNA get out. Now now we got you got you just treat me naked this things that. They did to me that I would lie our the my wife didn't even know that dates me because I don't feel like I want to tell her they do. Horrible things over the. Electric shocks to your body the I. Don't know if you know what? The what the police Dick they used to beat you up dangerous adding to your anal cavity So it make sure they make you talk. He was held for two days. Not Long after they released him Jessica into a protest that was broken up by police. Officers kicked her in the stomach and hit her with the butt of a gun. She was three weeks pregnant. She lost the baby. Late last year they realized they couldn't stay anymore. They needed to escape in their plan was to go to the US. And they had a good reason to think they would be welcomed their. Jessica Voice's brand of activism. It was championed by Republicans including the trump administration for its defiance of a left-wing autocrat. They were called freedom fighters. We stand with you Republican. Senators said in statements in tweets. In Two thousand eighteen Ted Cruz give a whole speech about US support for Nicaraguan. Activists like them. To the people of Nicaragua. The American people stand with. And your fight for freedom. And for the rule of law. To the half million? Protests. The. Rest of your lives. I say thank you. Thank you for your courage. And Remember Truth has power. That support. It's part of what made their asylum case seem winnable because it fell under the category of political persecution. It was one sliver of the asylum system left intact after years of dismantling. In all sorts of ways getting asylum in the US has become almost impossible. Asylum. Seekers are being turned away at the border told Nope reclosed. Cases are incredibly hard to win even when they do get to the courts. But the trump administration did leave at least one window cracked. One of the few categories of asylum-seekers at are purported to accept. People who were threatened tortured jailed for their politics especially when their politics overlapped with US interests. People like myself and Jessica. Morrison? Jessica. Were a perfect asylum case for another reason. Their persecution was documented and it was public. As activists they had become famous. Their protests had been televised. They held nationally broadcast press conferences. People recognize them in the streets all the time. Even the State Department had tweeted about specific confrontations they'd had with the paramilitary. At any other time in recent US history, they would likely have been admitted. But instead they're in hiding. I wanted to understand why I've been covering immigration for the last few years and this to me felt like the last chapter in the disintegration of asylum. So I called my Sas and Jessica in the attic to hear about their journey from start to finish. To learn what happens. In late two, thousand, nineteen, they started to get ready. We studied the US government website for the asylum requirements. You read about the importance of supporting your case with evidence. So he bought a block backpack and he filled it with all the evidence he could gather. Videos of their protests and press conferences reports from the Human Rights Commission and the State Department statements from the White House and the Republican senators. Wison also wrote a five page declaration along essay enumerating every threat every beating he'd received from the government. He included the names of his torturers. You'd read online at the details could help his family's asylum case. So he was a specific as possible. The backpack on kind of sacred role for them. It was their proof that they were deserving of the sliver of asylum that remained available in the US. Then Mois and Jessica Camilla their eight year old daughter. Mulas outgoing loves legos and tick tock videos. They sat her down in moist described all the dangers they would face on their journey across the border. Community told them she was ready to go. At three o'clock one morning they left their house outside of Managua and headed two thousand miles north. By early July they were moving through the desert of northern Mexico. It was scorching in Cova cases were spiking. Morrison Gamed everything out. He wraps his silent evidence in plastic case it got wet and he picked where they would cross the border. Texas. Since. We heard so many things about. The the Texas. Senator Ted Cruz. which is a guy that always talk about the Nicaragua's regime in everything. We thought Oh. My God we place because we're Texas was he from during tough moments on the journey to the Border Moi, SAS and Jessica tried to convince Camilla the whole trip was a game. It'll get more fun. They said soon, we'll be in Disney world you'll eat at McDonald's hamburger. Camilo Plate along at first. But by the time they got to the border she was exhausted and scared. JESSICA SCATTERED OUT THE REAL GUERANDE Neither she can you look at Swim? So she nervously look for the shallowest part. Anthem says yet. Yum. Yum. So as we were walking into the river, it was as if fate had intervened but of course, the Latino has every time. We took a step in the water. There was always a rock that we could see that is it was as if God had placed stones there so that we could walk and nothing would happen to us. The water never got that high I don't even think it got above our needs. And so when we got to the other side, we saw the people from border, patrol but the pattern. A Long I e. Jessica, fell to rush of relief. That's it. She thought the hardest part is over. A Border Patrol agent get out of a truck. Moi Sas had been planning for this moment and he knew exactly what to do. In. Moist speaks fluent English, which is incredibly unusual for an asylum seeker. He took off his backpack and he spread out the pile of evidence supporting his asylum claim. I say away phony could our we run up life of asylum? We're seeking political asylum here these including we are supports and they took notes and everything the border patrol separated Moist Sas from Jessica Camilla. They took his bag with all the evidence in it. For twelve days they were detained in small crowded tents. They were just sitting on the ground waiting in the same clothes they had worn on the trip north. We'll house one. Out there we were wet when we crossed the river, our shoes in our pants Scott quiet and they did dry off, they tried off on our bodies says going through. And the shoes gave me like a fungus on my feet because I didn't take them off. Your the Komo on one. When we got there, we couldn't bathe. Are closed for itching us so much my underwear especially. Recess kept repeating himself janitors guards anyone. When can we apply for asylum? He asked where's my backpack? Finally. Some guards came to get them the guard said everyone get your stuff. We're taking you on a bus. The Hanoi Sachs's backpack it seemed Jessica like they were about to be released and allowed to apply for asylum. Louisa. We were happy. We were all hugging each other because there was that one that bus arrived. It was going to take us to wherever we were going to be like Miami or wherever the people meeting you work, and so we were happy because we thought that this entire bidder journey was going to come to an end. Some. Indian. Mois us to see if he was also feeling hopeful but my sas was more skeptical and Jessica noticed. The US it turns out had US corona virus as an excuse to shudder what was left of the US asylum system. In March the Centers for Disease Control wrote an order saying that asylum seekers could be expelled because they pose a risk to public health during the pandemic. It later turned out the order was conceived of by immigration officials at the White House not medical experts. And Jessica Camilla tested negative for Corona virus while in custody they can be deported. But, they didn't know that. They were cats an information black hole for a few days and then put in a van. No one would tell them where they were going. At what point do you realize that that the vans going to the airport? When when after when disturbed, the first time in in continue trip my wife told me that look do some science three times? Airport Brownsville. The we realize guy we wanted to airport the only run by our. might what we're GONNA do they they're gonNA they're gonNA put me in jail I get any Karrar Wa. They're going to arrest me GonNa, shoot me in the head. Disappear Meyer myself and my wife's got semi to. To note to nurture put there for for the rest of my life. Now they're really make sure they're gonNA kill me when no Camilo meal well, Camilla was sleeping and we suss was very nervous I think it's one of the few times I've ever seen him cry. and. It's really only a few times that he has because I can tell you that I can count them on one hand and still have fingers leftover. DILEMMA MONITOR EMS over deal but that day I did see him cry. And he was crying a lot because obviously he was very scared. You'll meal. You. And when you somewhere says crying, what did you say? Did you say anything? You. Know Nali. Hanaa Solo Solo be not really I. Didn't say anything. I. Just looked at him and he told me what are we going to do? What's going to happen? I'm scared that they're going to take him to the day. and. I didn't say anything I kept quiet because I also thought that that was going to happen. So I couldn't tell him that that wasn't going to happen when down I felt that it would all opposite. Ashley, for Dentists said the ECHINACEA Mois and Jessica I tried not to believe what was happening. In all of their planning. They'd never consider that this could happen. Never, before in the modern history of the US asylum system has the US sent political dissidents back to the country they fled without first allowing them to open asylum applications. Yet there they were being sent back to Nicaragua delivered into the hands of their torturers. Police would be waiting for them at the airport. And they weren't alone. Dozens of Nicaragua asylum seekers were herded onto a charter plane destined for a country whose treatment of political prisoners. The State Department said demonstrates the regime's disregard for human life and Democratic Freedoms. Not only is it a break from US policy going back decades? It's also a clear violation of international refugee law. I talked to people at the UN and they were like, yeah, this is definitely illegal. US Customs and Border Protection did not respond to my request for comment. They claim that people seeking asylum still received credible fear interviews. Though I didn't find any evidence to support that. Pilot comes on the Intercom and calmly tells people to put their seatbelts on like it's a normal flight. Meanwhile. The passengers are freaking out there still not completely sure where they're going. Well this, they wanted to two cars. Then the the pilot said while the time the time skits Nicaragua was three hours. Something like that and I say Oh my God damn. We are. Now we really going back. In it's like you feel you're like how security if you like there's nothing I can do. I can I jump from the plane Passengers were whispering to each other. If they take me straight to prison call my mom one man said. Whoever disappears we shall assume she put said another. Voice s recognized some of the other activists he told me and my producer Nadia Raymond about it and like everybody was in shock everybody wasn't handcuffs will bring but he short is online these as I remember like this movie conair. Going in the plane, everybody was fighting with the officers. About I don't want to go but don't. Want to be. Sensitive Kerala. More people are saying that on the plane. Yeah Comey Lenny Eleven Donna Michelle it but see young Camilo was sitting beside the window Melissa side the aisle and I was in the middle because I'm afraid of flying. But I was so scared from the uncertainty from not knowing what was awaiting us that I wasn't even scared of flying. I told my staff that I couldn't even deal with pilot was doing. Didn't even feel like I was flying on an airplane. NO SYNTHETIC GECKO Indiana young. while. They're mid Air Mois realizes something the backpack. This bag full of evidence he's about to land with it and the police are going to see it. He can't think about anything else. The US immigration agents put it with the checked luggage. So it was somewhere in the belly of the plane. Mois. Ask couldn't even hold. It couldn't look at what was inside can come up with a plan. If the police find it. They'll see that he listed the names of specific tortures and what they did to him. Maybe they decide to kill him just for that. Maybe they rape his daughter he thinks. His mind is spiraling out of control. Next to him Jessica is busy trying to soothe. Feeding. Her doritos when we left Dan Backpack for me was like did hope we did. I had. So I can make it to the US and for. was like my my savior, my my ticket to freedom. Eight when I was coming back to our was did the opposite I was thinking that is he's unwinding. Stimulus going to kill me. because. That's where I have all the evidence in the crusade I had so. The same back by is going to take Msci Credo as is GonNa join me right now. When the Plane Lands Moi. SAS looks out the window at the fleet of Nicaraguan. Police waiting for them. Everyone gets in line walking down the steps the plane. SAS and Jessica in all of the others are led into a garage like office or the government is conducting interogations, their patted down their government ideas or confiscated. The whole time we says is thinking about his backpack. One officer snot pictures of them, another address them by name and asked what they were doing in the US and why they were deported. Recess tried to avoid answering. They got me in Texas. He said shrugging it off. Their lead to another area full of police. Jessica and Camillo while cans and hands but Moist Eyes Dart. Around frantically searching for some sign of his backpack. Finally, he sees the luggage cart pull up and there it is. Moi Sas grabs his backpack and turns to face the wall of a building. It's the close you can get to hiding. He reaches into the backpack in fields for the pages. He finds his statement. The document outlines in explicit detail everything that happened to them in a new debt the first speaker did I. I knew that statement. So when I noticed that they were not looking at me, I grab it. In I, put it like a fast. Fast. Then after that I. Did like I was wiping my my face abor. Sweating because it was a, it was very hot. So our sweating a lot. So what ideas I maintain that I was to the people to cremate sweat. Then when they were not looking hours Burnett, throwing it trust can actually I thought about. But I say I'm not GonNa Coins Trash Kinda my senior them my find it. You know. So what I did is I think that I was going to start eating it real fast annoying like it was. It was like wet because of the sweat is was easy to swallow we how many pages that you actually eat. They were five pages. How did you? How did you eat five pages of? I don't know man I think it was real scared just start swallowing. My wife says that I have a big mouth that in that help. So when when I realized I, liking gopro secondly had everything in check into my throat so I started swallowing. What are the? What are the paper tastes like well because? Because of sweat, he was very, very salty was terrible. As they walked through the crowd of police he kept waiting for them to take him away. He kept waiting for them to open his bag. They never did. Instead, the police drove my s Jessica Camilla to Jessica's MOM's house in patrol truck. When they got there, the police started taking more photos like they were scouting, crime scene, Iguana Nosotros Salima Camilla. So. When we got out, Camilla was very skinny. Since we left she lost weight. So my mom didn't recognize her Latin No. No, she saw the three of us. She didn't recognize us on SIA love persona. We out of the van. And they said, we're going to hand over your family members now and we'd like to take a picture so that there's evidence that the people who were deported or handed to their family members. Then said a kid Lhasa from me. This is Nicaragua's para-police often work. They make note of where you live and when they want to they go after you. Mois and Jessica had to figure out what to do next. After. A few days they noticed that the police were circling the house. The police called at random and asked about Camilla. Staying at a known address was too dangerous. They didn't think the police would hurt Camilo. Fast Jessica. Wall Camilo. was there. She could be swept up in the violence. Soy Sauce and Jessica relocated to the attic of a safe house in left. Camilla. They told her. We'll see you soon but truthfully, they had no idea when. It was brutal to say goodbye. But what was the alternative they thought? If Camilo was attacked on their behalf that would be much worse. Jessica cried when she said goodbye that was about two months ago. She's cried most days since. They. Still. Do I still feel guilty. Or give. My. Stomach Pizza. We're in hiding I can't always see my daughter. I can't keep every promise that I made. I feel like I failed to some other modifies. Their days are now about hiding. They spent weeks in the attic sleeping on the floor. Now, the floor below a tiny mostly empty bedroom, but they're still just as afraid of being found. The landlord warns them when someone is downstairs so they can remain extra quiet. When one of them dropped something or accidentally makes a loud noise. They're like that anyone here that. Does that thing that's going to give us away. Sometimes Jessica wakes up and for an instant has no idea where she is. She has to remind herself I'm back in Nicaragua I'm in hiding in my own country. They're back where they were a year ago asking the same questions should we leave in win? This time the answers are harder to agree on. The nearly see on the AMMO food deal more. Sometimes we have very intense arguments because right now we don't know what's going to happen. We don't know how long things are going to be like this. It's like being in jail without the torture. If gotTA seem that, go to Fuda Better Your Business I think there is torture psychologically emotionally because you can't be near the people you love. Versus. The how many times a day do you think about what you're going to do about your plans for what to do next Facet the Kayla Bay my up until a few days ago it was up to twenty hours a day but I've decided that I need to wait. One day this month. Mois made it very clear that the door was closed that we just needed to wait for the door to open that we just needed to have patience because I don't know what else we can do. No circuit boy Morazan Tomasz. We can't think about leaving if we don't have the economic means, but we can't think about staying here because I don't know how much longer we can organ Nosaka Wanda My. Own. Who? Most of the people arriving at the US border these days know that the asylum system has been whittled away. Like my Sassy Jessica. They knew wasn't going to be easy that could take years. But they believed in their case that pile of papers Boyce's backpack. Anyone who saw them would be convinced they thought. They didn't believe and why would they? Was the no, one would even look. At the backpack would end up back in a safe house next a moist his head when he sleeps. Everything's still inside. The way it was when they left for the first time. Kevin. Is the Mexico and Central America Bureau chief for The Washington Post version of the story appeared in the Washington. Post and the daily podcast post reports. Coming? Out People work in a field where is really hard to find a good steady job is people find one and then the only problem is. They have to actually come in and do the job every day exactly the way they did it the day before and I mean, like exactly the way they did it. That's a minute from Chicago public radio when our program continues. Support for this American life comes from capital one your miles go further with the capital one venture card the travel card that lets you earn unlimited double miles for more than just air travel right now earn one, hundred, thousand bonus miles. You can actually use redeemable for vacation rentals, car rentals, and more with the twenty thousand dollars in your first year. What's in your Wallet Limited time offer terms apply see capital one dot com for details. Support for this American life comes from Sierra Nevada brewing company in nineteen eighty with a few thousand dollars and used dairy equipment Ken Grossman founded Sierra Nevada brewing company Kens award-winning ails propelled him from home brewer to craft brewer and today Kenan his family still own one hundred percent of the company. One of the most successful independent craft breweries in America more at Sierra Nevada DOT com. To American Life Mara Glass. Today's program the walls close in stories of people trapped in small spaces and what that's like. We've arrived at two of our program to music of the night after night after night after night after night after night after night after night. We only the people who made a choice a conscious choice to stick themselves into a cramped uncomfortable space for years inside the theater. You know the old saying Hell is other people actually comes from theater comes from a play. No exit that play was not written by a member of a theater orchestra. Jay Caspian King has the story about how many musicians and orchestras might understand the sentiment. Nick GMO moved to New York in two thousand six to try to make it as a musician. He had just finished up college and had all these dreams of playing the trumpet for Living But it was a struggle? There just aren't many jobs for trumpet players anymore. So we mostly waited by the phone for gigs. Korean mega church services, experimental plays in the occasional substitute job with Mary poppins on Ebay. And then a spot opened up at his favorite show. MIGHT BE TMI but I remember as in my apartment. I was on the toilet. I got a phone call and I didn't recognize the number. And I listened to the mail saying hi Kristen and freaked out. This is one of the conductors for Phantom of the opera. She offered him a job playing chess six days a week and twice on Thursdays and Saturdays I'm not sure. I probably eaten letter finish your sentence. Yes. I'm very very interested and available those life changing really. Did. You feel like you'd like won the lottery Oh. Yes. Actually I remember the next day I had to go grocery shopping and I remember. I remember by Coconut Water I. Don't know why that was like my treat because I always wanted to buy coconut water but it was always like too much of a as you know I don't need to spend I, remember buying coconut water and feeling like such a bad ass. And I just felt like I can buy anything here. It wasn't just a steady income was excited about. Phantom of the opera was a show naked love. Since he was eleven years old he had just started playing the trumpet and with Lay on his living room floor listening to the music of the night. Slowly gently night unfurled splendor. That call changes life. He had finally arrived. Phantom on Broadway. On his first day, nick entered the majestic theater on forty six eighth avenue. He walked through a back alley pass a giant of dry ice down a flight of stairs into a locker room where change in all black. Then headed into the pet to play the music. He had loved as a child. He had his own seat there now and a music stand. So he played the first show next day he went back and played it again and then again. His brain started to adjust to playing the same show eight times a week. And then he started to notice it wasn't just the music that repeated itself. I'm seeing the same actress exact same time in the same. These that the exact same time and seeing same people in the bathroom at the exact same time. Every time one of the dancers comes through to put her wig on she says to one of the other dancers. Good Job Erica, like every single day is very groundhog day. And I, this is funny. Almost charming Nicholas thirty and the youngest person in the pit not by a few years but by a few decades. He'd never been in a situation like this where everyone seems so locked into routine. His colleagues would sit down in chairs at the exact same in every day. There is a challenge to say marvelous every time they asked him how he was doing. There is the first foreign player who had out a stop watch every single night time how long the second Horn player held the note and one of the songs. Some days would be seventeen seconds other days sixteen point too. You definitely. Start to notice people are talking about each other complaining about the same people that are late every single. Week. If you bump into a stand by accident, you'll get an. You doing kind of luck like. A deep breath. Like. What is it like being the youngest? Basically, I'm not as jaded. As the rest of them. Say anything that's not like. Sucks will be here. Now you've been here long enough. You're still new you're still new. People kind of walk in there like. Do it again, and some of it's just in their body language the way they walk in the door they're kinda trudging any now. Or? Someone says so I have to do this tonight. Phantom of the opera on Broadway January nine, thousand, nine, hundred, Eighty, eight. It was an instant hit. Musical comes away and chanted. Show is virtually guaranteed to run well into the next decade. It did. And then another decade. And Another The musicians and the pet sign contracts with the provisions which guarantee their jobs until the show shutdown. Expected to maybe three years, but the show kept going as three years turned into five years, which then turned into thirty two. That's over thirteen thousand performances. Phantom is now the longest running show in the history of Broadway. There's almost a feeling I think. Nausea. That you have to do it again and you have to do it again. That's Melanie Feld Noboa Susan in the pit for Twenty eight years. Now, I don't know how to describe it a physical sensation that I get. A literally that I'm jumping out of my skin like it's leg thing. I can't stand was going crazy. Oh No, that thing is happening. I heard about the pit of Phantom through a friend whose wife had recently saw in the violin section she described she had seen as a horror show like waiting for Guffman but thirty hard years down the line. I couldn't quite get it out of my head is one of the first things people ask. How can you possibly stay sane and play the same music every night Pete rate has been playing Phantom since opening night, he's the French, Horn player who times the notes on a stop watch every night there's something in that where you look at the music sometimes and I, it would just literally look like shapes. I would just see like like circles and lines and dots at I. Have No idea I don't even know what page is on. Decision of feeling almost like. Yourself speak and you aren't sure it's English. Well that is I don't think that's ever happened to me. And then the the funny thing is you see someone else and you immediately know what's going on with them. What does their face look like? Oh, they're just like they just it's as if they don't even know where they are. They're like waking up in another room. It's like what happened where I Day Is it what we is it. When I started talking to the pit musicians a couple years ago I wanted to know how they found meaning in the mundane and inevitable repetitions of life. In. Lots of jobs people do the same thing every day. But nothing quite like this. You're hearing the exact same lines from stage flying the Zach save notes for the same songs. Even the guy sitting next to you breeze in the exact same rhythm. Every day, the Phantom kisses Christine for the first time in the same Schiller comes crashing down in the same spot on the stage. I assume the orchestra members were like San Archers could pull back same boat of the same ocean until they die. I talked to a trumpet player named Lowell Hershey laws been at the show since day one and everyone says he's insane person in the pit. And it kind of drives you nuts for the first few weeks and then after that your mind deals with and just flushes it out. So when you're not there, you don't think about it. Do you know the words to the songs airplane? no. Not Not. Entirely where in the world where me fondly. Whatever I mean I remember one one time after the show had been running for a while at somebody asked me to play a little bit of a tuned from the show and I couldn't even do it. I couldn't even think of one. Submerged much. Brands, like basically just rejected being cognizant of the music is going on. Dining typical of people who shows. The right type of personality is that can handle this job. I'm descended from a long line of serfs, peons, people who are you still laboring in the fields for Ferrari, any money and and are relatively happy with that. The Phantom players aren't exactly serfs their well-paid they play a beloved show and they get to play in small or on the side. But these are highly trained musicians who went to the fanciest music schools in the world. Andrew Lloyd Webber wanted the best of the best for Phantom, which means a pit will always sound good though it also creates some creative and spiritual problems for the players who have to get through the score night after night after night I'm violent operator. He just grab. That's how he describes. It's it's it's very technical. I have I have no emotional connection with it. That's a violinist named Kirk coble. He's a composer. His was always to write scores for horror films. He's been a fan of for twenty two years long enough to see three people in a section die. When I'm playing the show. Nobody's interested in my creative input. I've often compared to working in a hospice. Just. We just keep the show alive as long as we can. So here they are in this weird social experiment trap together for decades, twenty-seven musicians crammed into this tiny space. Trumpet, Player. told me. It's like playing in a submarine. I've been down there and you can barely turn around without knocking into something. In the pet you notice everything the way your neighbor blows out spit valve way someone brags about their kids the smell someone's perfume. Every little annoyance, every perceived slight accumulates. One of my favorite stories which should drive anyone who has ever played in a band. Crazy. There's this bassoon player who sat next to the same clarinet players. It's nineteen eighty-eight. She's convinced. He plays Hafner flat on every note he's ever played. He Denies This The person I talked to the most in the pet was melanie, the oboe us. She's one of the rare people who has no real filter. So I was complaining about S- something which I imagine was that it was really cold it's always really cold then. Someone else from the Orchestra said. Just. So tired of the sound of your voice. You know and I'm tired of the sound of my voice to I kinda sympathize with her. Then, it was violinist got mad at me because I said I, use roundup in my garden she. She wouldn't speak to me for. Weeks. During most of our talks, melania making reads an extraordinarily meticulous process. There's all sorts of medieval looking tools and tiny bits of wood everywhere. The most optimistic people in the world because every time they make read, they think that it might work. Usually don't but anyway this part no I'm skipping the most important part you need to pick your color of thread. And it just makes all the difference and I never know what color pick. This is the only fun that I have so. That God awful noise. Melanie studied at juilliard she June being the principal oboe in the Metropolitan Opera Philharmonic. But she kept bombing her auditions. Nerves got the best of her every time. She is up for a big. And then life and bill's intervened. Phantom in that way as a very good job in a field where there aren't a lot of good jobs anymore. Put Melanie's kids through college paid their mortgage and provided security while the music industry collapsed around her. But at the end of thirty years sitting just inches away from your coworkers, you lose all sense of proportion your enemies turn into monsters. For Melanie, the monster in the pit was always a trumpet player named Francis Bonnie. Everything he did trove melanie nuts from the black biking shorts worn the pit to always eating dinner in the locker room with his back turned to her. Francis was miserable son of a bitch and at a certain point, he started wearing like he put this black ish like shade on the side of his glasses. He's wearing those things because he doesn't WanNA. See Me Right. That's why he's I. Really Truly believe this. I wanted to run this all by Francis it just seems so unreasonable. Francis. The only person I talk to who had actually escaped from the pit. He got in a truck and drove out to the middle of nowhere in. Colorado. He says he's much happier. Now you've spoken Melanie O. Yeah. Yeah we. Understand that you did not have the best relationship. One of the things that you told us was that that you basically made an eye patch so that you wouldn't have to like editor is, is this a true story that just telling us? I did do that at some point, but it wasn't just because Melanie. She's taken personally it was actually anybody that was on my right. told us for a long time that you sat in the locker room and turn your back to everybody because you didn't want to look at them. It was in the locker room. I came there. I ate my dinner looked at the white. Wall. Win In play this show and then left the theatre left the premises. As I could and. It worked beautifully. Can you compare the relationships that you have with other relationships? It's family. Is, Hispanic kids dead and putting up with people that you just don't want to hear their voice again, you sit there. Thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of hours. This is like a quarter of a lifetime. The musicians in the pet don't play the whole time, which means there are thousands of hours where they're not actually doing anything. And during those rest they read books, spy thrillers and mysteries, and do the crossword with their neighbors. Trumpet Player has taught himself three languages. Another musician ran a woodshop business on his laptop during the show. And socially, it's a bit like Middle School. They're the loners, the jocks in the French horns, they're like the boys in the back of the bus. Bring in fart machines and run the same practical jokes over and over. Sometimes they even mess with the audience. The front row is right up against the pet. So close at their feet sometimes dangle next to the musicians heads. Of the French horn players would take out a bottle of whiteout in right little messages on the soles of the audience's shoes. Those guys sitting right behind me. They're always. Chattering and laughing. I being me if I play badly I think Oh God. They're saying how terrible am? Oh God I don't want to get myself. This more than anything Melanie told me is what makes her sound good every night. She's worried the French Horn guys will make fun of her. I'm not playing for the audience because the audience doesn't, and so I'm playing for those French horn players. I do want to say. One of the compliment gotten over the years is How do you still play? So well, when you've just been doing phantom for all those years and is the choice that I made my choices to play this music like it's any other music that I play. And make it beautiful. Can utilize for Phantom well, I can play the really hard one if it's really bad though. I'm begging. Nobody is in the Phantom pit right now, the show temporarily closed in March because of covid nineteen, the unstoppable show had finally been put on pause. I recently checked in with Melanie again. She wasn't doing very well, her mother died in a nursing home in New Jersey presume covert positive she wasn't getting paid by the show anymore. And she missed Phantom. This is surprising to me. Melania and all the other musicians had told me about their fantasies of finally leaving the show. And I believe them. But now that it actually happened, she missed routine. Phantom. I missed the the comradeship. The repetition of silly jokes. Watching everyone eat and. I don't know the routine I kind of like routine in my life. This, of course is the opposite of what she'd said in the past before cove it. It was always easy to complain that it was boring. And to complain about driving into the city and wasting all that time in the car and. You know. Playing the same music and going home again, and I just thought. I knew I was lucky back then but it becomes very real now. What can I say? Now I really know. What it's like not having this job. It's just so much fun to complain about things don't matter. Oh. The women in the bathroom. They were just always talking about their expensive hair and make up and I missed the women in the bathroom. And not, yeah. I'd be happy to complain about that again. For. The pandemic every time I talk to Melanie I would ask how she was doing. Her answer always dependent on parking. It's hard to park in midtown Manhattan good parking spot was a good day at that parking spot was a bad day. This is how she made sense of her life. I think about this all the time. Most of our lives are spent finding parking for the job, we don't WANNA do. Melodies not alone in that. After. Any number of years those routines accumulate and that's more or less your life. Of all the people I talked to in the Ted one musician doubt with the mundane and inevitable repetition of life in a way that really stuck with me. For the past two decades in the pit Kurt the musician who described himself as a violin operator has been dreaming up the most elaborate and metaphorically perfect coping mechanism. It's van made up entirely of Autumn Matonse. Met these robot musicians in a warehouse in yonkers. The PAN bandstands for partially artificial musicians. Kurds matonse are made up of scraps of metal and string all wired up to a soundboard. The Kirk Program to create whatever sounds he wants. There's Magnus and electric cord. Krieg the Bass Guitar, and then there's rosie the therapy. This is Jack. A solid body, electric, violin using be EXO, skeleton design. This is what helps. Alleviate the boredom and redundancy of Phantom because. I'm constantly thinking. About this project and how I can improve the automation. And the kind of music that I would like to create. Why did you decide to do this? If I ever see a therapist, maybe they will help me understand of it their best. Part of it where you're like man I am playing in this orchestra I'm not EXP-. You know it's not the expressive nece that I want i. also kind of feel like an Ottoman you know, and maybe I just make an automatic on Ashworth violinist. I can I can see. Exploring that. I am I looking for some kind of? Soul healing from this dehumanisation of being in a violin. Section. Possibly I ask her if the Pam Band could play the music of the night or all I ask if you or any of the phantom classics. He wasn't into that at all. This. Band was not designed to play android Weber. But something inside him just couldn't get away from Phantom of the opera. Back, when he was sitting in the pet, he'd composed just in his head both the prequel in the sequel Phantom both which involve Indiana Jones type characters. In years ago he got a copy of the nineteen twenty, five silent film version of Phantom in Rhode. Entire. Score. He wanted to play it for me. He turned out the lights in the warehouse and projected the film onto the wall the pants started to play. The score features him Kurt as a solo violence in the star of the show. The Matonse, all play the same thing occurred improvises. None of his shows are ever the same. Caspian carrying, making a documentary about the Phantom did and his co host of the podcast time to say goodbye. Sir. Program is produced today by Aviva Cornfeld people put together. Today includes the amount of work on a Baker Susan Burton Bencun Chavez Sean, Cole nor Gill Damian Grave Joffe walt making me Catherine Raimondo. Stone Nelson. Nadia Raymond Robins semi angrily Sullivan Christians, Ptolemy Tyranny Diane Wu Managing Looser Abdurrahman Senior editor David Kessler executive editor is Emmanuel. Berry. especially. Thanks today to our interpreter Gabriela Muneer hosts also David Lie Grace Paradise Belcastro Glad Maceio. Cameron. Dennis Conversa- Henderson Alex Newman and Jean Hannah Elstein I- website this American Life Dot Org you can stream our archive of over seven hundred episodes absolutely free plus there's video. Favorite programs. There's all kinds of other stuff there again, the website, this American Life Dot Org, this American life, stupid public radio stations by PR, x the Public Radio Exchange spoke with this American life comes from Sierra Nevada Brewing Company family owned operated and argue ever since one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty proud supporter of independent thought whether that's online over the air or in a can or bottle more at Sierra Nevada dot com. And from Dr Death Season Two which does the incredible true story of what happened when the FBI uncovered a scam where Michigan doctor had poisoned over five hundred patients with drugs they didn't need to treat diseases. They didn't have Dr Death Season Two is available on apple podcasts and from Sitka Salmon chairs the community supported fishery delivering seasonal shares of traceable wild. Alaskan Sea food recipes and more about small boat fleet at Sitka salmon shares dot com slash tesol twenty, twenty, one chairs now open. As. Always your program's Co founder Mr Troy Malataya he and I were talking the other day and he let slip the hasn't been listening to our program for weeks. As like what? Totally confronted him about it. And I don't know I guess he had a good reason. Just. So tired of the sound of your voice marry. Back next week though Tori. I'm tired of the sound of my voice too. So I kinda sympathized. Maine. Within the podcast of this American Life. With gun sales up and these unsettling times we asked all kinds of people. Why'd you buy your first gun now I actually went and looked at guns one gun south on the Thursday after the debate and they were out there like out of guns out of animal, their white liberals like that guy people of color there's a lot of fear. You got the extremists and you don't know who they are the sex within the podcast local public radio station.
Whats It Like to Navigate the Bay Area While Blind?
"This is big curious. I'm Olivia on price. My grandmother had multiple sclerosis and was blind as long as I knew her. She died before I was old enough to ask the questions that I always wanted the answers to, like, what's it like, how do you navigate this loud, and bustling world we live in? Today on bay curious. We're going to experience the answer to one of those questions. What's it like to be blind and make your way around San Francisco? Now, this episode is different from what you normally hear on our show. It's a sonic experience more than a new story. So if you can listen on your best pair of headphones in a quiet room, maybe with your eyes closed, and just let your mind imagine we'll get started right after the break. Support for bay curious comes from Sierra Nevada brewing company, family owned operated and argued over since nineteen eighty reminding listeners to think for themselves. But drink with others, Sierra Nevada dot com. Helping us today are two of my friends from the world according to sound podcast. Hello. I'm Chris Hoff? And I'm Sam Harnett, Chris, and Sam are masters of collecting and mixing audio. And they've been working on this project for more than a year. Now, basically, we're trying to sort of get at the way blind people. Experience the world on their day to day. We're both interviewing blind and visually impaired people and also recording their environments that we can hear exactly what they hear Chris. And Sam spent the day with a guy named Bryan Bashan. He's the CEO at the lighthouse for the blind and visually impaired, everyday he commutes from his home in north Berkeley to his office in downtown San Francisco, he's completely blind. And he navigates using a white cane. Let's start in Brian's house. It's eight AM. And he's getting ready for work. You're going to hear him. Listen to emails read by a super fast computerized voice. He also makes coffee and uses color and light detectors to pick out clothes, and make sure all his lamps are turned off. This is not in real time. Chris, Sam condensed, Brian's morning routine. Okay. So no pick out a shirt for the business day. Grabbing my little colored detector. Let's see what do I feel like I feel formal. Maybe not white. Did us where that kind of color yesterday? Two doll- maybe. Stuck here of check my Email, maybe something bolder. Potential changes pitch, depending on the intensity of the light can point at the light. And pointed way, too boring. And now I can tell her off by. A whole series of those. Beijing. On. I've got to turn the Espresso on first Alexa, turn Espresso on Alexa, level five. Okay. Alexa. Play me my briefing. Alexa, next Email. An increase that there's the on. Forty four. Rick that I think I want eighty contrast. Look around here. Okay. That's the one. The gods. Once Brian's ready and fully caffeinated he heads out onto the streets of Berkeley, and walks to Bart to get around. He uses sonic cues, but I on this morning before the stress of the commute begins. Brian takes a moment on his back porch and listens to his neighborhood with Chris and Sam. After you guys. Benny front soup. Would you hear? Oh man. Well at that instant. I heard the Amtrak a mile west of here, those wonderful spring, finches that are here finally, enjoying a spot of sunlight, the distant sound of wind chimes that kind of thing normal, quite Berkeley morning people going to work. Chip makes a little sound and that's echoing. And that's what I hear actually. Fan run twenty four seven so it's always on. I heard we've passed that pole. Always something I worry about here the apartment building on the left the echo about one hundred feet away all the difference between this. And that. Miss. And that. This and that. Dork crossing just a small little St.. I can hear the curve for the term face picks up the echo the king for that plane to pass cured about here, which might be six or eight feet away. I'll wait for that car to, but I'm also hearing, the bushes to my left and the open sound to my right which is a big parking lot. You may think that's a bike, that's an acoustic era that just tells me what direction the Greenway is. So you see these yellow truncated domes all over the place. They're mandated by law. When I hear that sound. I know this is the actual entrance onto the intersection. Well, let me talk about those leaf blowers. It really screws up with any blind persons walking navigation. We're using so many rich cues. And if you walk within a block of one of those things, it's like you, you become blind. Second time can't hear anything. You don't know if you're safe can't safely cross traffic. Previous over and just ask him to shut up. Five minutes. While obviously. I do that. Yummy. How big is going to? I think he will depends how reasonable samples read or how engaging. We're making a quick audio recording. Hey, we're making a quick audio recording this for like two three minutes. Just like we want to. So lax even turning the heating haw. Yes. Sweet and you'll see wherever they're going to walk into the bar station, then we'll be out of here. I know which. Yeah. One hundred people's blood pressure went down. Show percent. Oh. On Bart Brian hurdles to the transbay tube. It's particularly terrible environment for all of us really are. No, listen for the door opening and just entering. Most people wanted. Fencer very. Breath. Hear that helpful announcement. I've memorized stations, but he's cars so loud, and the PA is, so that it's useless. Car train? Operators just talking into a wall. That part hasn't fixed the sound announcing forty years really says to me, we don't matter. After arriving at the Civic Center, Bart. Stop Brian makes his way to his office at the lighthouse for the blind and visually impaired. Market street is always such symphony of sound even in this really loud situation. They're accused that I know will be here, and as close, I'll hear the hollow sound of the Onnaing, and that sort of welcoming entry into the lighthouse. And if I'm lucky I'm my canes going to touch one of the large sort of round pillars in front of the building. They have a really distinctive sound when I find those, I know that's the building eleven fifty five market. There's one of those pillars and I heard that you're open about fifteen to my right tells me this way, I wanna be. How are you? The elevator you want. It's a coup sickly treated. Nd floor. Floor. And I like going to kept saying. Hi. Lighthouse main reception going down. Good morning, White House. Are you doing? Thanks. Brian passion for sharing your commute with us that was produced by Chris Hoff and Sam net. They are the creators of the world, according to sound podcast, each episode of mercies you in one sound pig, or small for about ninety seconds, their meditative, little nuggets of sonic joy. And I love to play them, and then replay them, and then replay them again, subscribe to the world, according to sound wherever you find your podcasts. Faye curious is made in San Francisco at K Q. I'm Lydia Allen price.
2010 is so much better than 2011
"Brought to you. Almost I live from the dude in the basement studios. Why because that's where the good stuff is it sits and smokes with your Smokin Post? The good old. Oh Boy Suds Suds. It's time for more suds. Yes welcome to SIP Suds and smokes folks and award winning. podcast is talking about beer today on this Sud segment joining me here for this conversation at to microphone left is going to be good. Oh Boy Dave Bunghole will ask the question. I mean seriously. How much do you think? Do you work on coming up with each one of these. It's time to think about anything. Well I'll tell you what I'm thinking about. Now hold up. I think it's three seconds. I'd love to be able to say that. Make that comment like in a real real life context. Say It to you. Let my Bunghole Day. Liz Kendall cheers. It's a pleasure to be here. Yes his Fermentation Tattoo starts to quiver. Every time he sits down at the microphone. The phone with us. So there you go also joining us. Here is GONNA boy sparked a sexual miscreant bassist. This ten most immediate shes barley wine is life is life. There's a clue about what's on today's show also joining us here at tables goodbye. Caperton greetings. I I don't know man I got nothing that's like that line is why you still smell smell like old people a drink a drink. Too many beers he's awful barley along the way but I'm I'm full of very strong beer. Her and I forgot to introduce myself. Mike today is a very big day. Big Very big day how big is is it believers in bigfoot. Say He's a massive creature F- good Oh. My candle has actually rated a seller and brought us a ten year vertical of bigfoot barley barley. Wine style ill from Sierra Nevada brewing company in Chico California and Fletcher. It's North Carolina. Come that's right yeah. We're going to start saying that. Yes they make The spear bus locations now. I don't know oh I'm betting they still make it in Chico and haven't looked at the bottom twenty twenty out. I'll take a look she interesting. Oh Yeah you'll have to compare both versions of those tubers well before we get to the septic lineup are sub segments are brought to you by. Are you lonely. Have you tried. Tried meeting people who interest you. But you just can't find any have all the dating apps lead you down. Maybe you need imaginary friend in this new social APP that lets you avoid real relationships. There's no chance of being disappointed because it's all in your head that's imaginary friend. Download it today. Well really great Epic lineup that we have today for big football. Your wine. I'm so we thought we'd take a little minute in now tell you a little bit about what. Sierra Nevada has to say about Book Foot Big Foot on their website people rip on me for not being able to read toy boat. Thug thug foot foot wine had a little too much at that bug foot barely wine. bigfoot is a beast a beer packed with bittersweet malt and heaps of aggressive whole cone own Pacific Northwest hops first introduced in the winter of nineteen eighty three. I did not know that it would have been around. Three yeah big. The foot is a cult. Classic brewed and Barley one style strong and robust with the refined intensity of wine. bigfoot is prized by bure collectors for aging and sellers under the proper conditions. It can develop enticing new flavors and character as it matures and the bottle enticed I. I'm I'm feeling rich not entice but H new release or expedition is vintage dated. Collect your own and savor the evolving flavors collect them all kind of like pokemon drink Rinku. How many of us do don't step off for your collecting? I speak up all right. Good old boy. Dave tell us a bit about Farley one in general according to the Beer Judge Certification Program or Bj C.. P. For you insiders here sure. There are two types of barley won. The original English barley wine is and I quote a showcase or a showcase of multi richness snus and complex intense flavors chewy and rich in body with warming alcohol in Australia. WHO's GONNA stop hoppy interest when aged can take on port like flavors a wintertime slipper. They are generally early between eight and twelve percent. Ab for more information on this Dow check out the vertical tasting. We did of J W Lease Harvest Ale called barley wind on my pant area go the second type of bar. The wine is a murky mark mark and it is generally speaking a much happier version of its cousin because we go big. He's right. That's what we'll be trying today. You need to get a sound bite of an eagle screaming the sound of freedom so I have a question I want to ask. You does my foot look too big for my body. I'm just curious. Are you part art. Same I've been thinking about it. I think you're a good Kudzu hunter because of Stampa trail trail. I think you've got big feet. Boys Swim turns and he had save. I guys a big feet. Were big shoes. Mike taking people that are visually intimidated. Drink with me. You know. It's like yeah that's always good to have somebody like that boy. Oh boy capers percents With you at a beer fest. People don't tend to linger in front of you in the line like they just kind of part. I usually just talked trash. Take that opportunity because they know I got him behind me. Whatever this guy? I'm sorry right. Yeah speak by associates like when people are line you know. And I'm doing the patent horizontal shuffle. And they're like hey took Sierra consular. He's right behind me like this concierge Horizontal Shuffle Yeah. Yeah that's That's dirty sideways. Really big man. You're okay well. Good Oh boy Kendall out tell us a little bit about two big advantages that you brought for today okay. Today we are tasting bigfoot going from we have a full vertical from twenty ten through twenty nineteen and a kicker that good. Oh Boy Mike brought of a two thousand bigfoot. I've been collecting these for a few years Most of my collection went back to about fourteen through current times but I was fortunate enough to be the at the Sierra Nevada brewery over North Carolina going into gift shop and they have I call for sale in the cooler. Couple of good things about this. It went back from two thousand ten to two thousand fifteen so I bought a six pack of bigfoot with six years in it nice and you know that they took good with care of this. You know this beer was not sitting. In a warm warehouse somewhere some wholesalers Costco with. Yeah right where can floor is is on it. So they've been taking good care of this beer I'm sure it's been seller at appropriate temperatures and We're selling these so I was able to make take my collection all the way back to twenty ten an and we have that wonderful One that might brought in one of the things we talked about a lot on the show a reference styles and when it comes to American barley wine you almost can't get more authentic than bigfoot. The only thing I would say would be more authentic would be anchors old foghorn which was started in nineteen seventy five and was probably inspiration for this hour and then they started brewing this and eighty three. And there's a great story about this as a saw this in the BJP guidelines that when they first brewed it they send it to a lab. The lab uncalled. Ken Grossman back and said your barley wine is too bitter and they replied thank you nailed it. There is a drink. Drink this fresh and I would encourage you to even though this is a beer to age and sellers we're GONNA find out. Fresh bigfoot is wonderful like a west coast. Ip It's Kinda like a triple Ip. You probably call it a lie. It's very multi very bitter and it's really well balanced so it all works together but it's a beautiful beer no matter when and you drink it. Greed greed. Yeah so definitely There are a lot of beers that are at Sierra Nevada. That you can buy That at our go back in time and and that was one of the things that really caught are tension with the first time They were going through That facility sylvie in in North Carolina they actually had like all these vintage big bottles glass case. And you know I don't who was slobbering on harder faster Kendall meals. Yeah that works me taken context. I'm trying to yeah. Well I mean you're on the so when you're on the tour there in Sierra Nevada. They'll actually have these enclosed glass cases. Is that have like a lot of their products and you can see you know a lot of vintage packaging that you know that. They've done with a lot of their products over like when you go to Amsterdam in and those girls or window shopping. Yeah exactly just like that but I do remember. Even though they had a vertical that you could buy there at the gift shop like a five year. Verka win this ten. You know ten year vertical that you can do this great every time I go there. I checked the fridge. verticals yeah hoping funded Narwhal vertical. One on your awesome so I always say to talking about things. He can't find but guess what there is a good chance that you can actually buy this. And that's the reason why I wanted learned mentioned that gift shop so deal such a beautiful place though you know I mean i. I truly love that. Sierra Nevada facility coin Alpine Lodge awed if you get I'm sure the one in Chico's amazing to if you're on the west coast but if you're on the east coast you need to get the North Carolina and see that place. It is a true beer. Ear Disneyland For sure yeah and I mean every every detail like I mean just the architecture of the flooring just every detail gorgeous awesome. Well thanks for joining us with for this episode. So far we'll be right back and just minute. A welcome back to sips sides ads and smokes on today's suds episode. We're going through a vertical of bigfoot barley wine from Sierra Nevada and we were just kind of talking talking about this flight in general and you know what a great facility you know. They have in North Carolina. It's really a great great place so I actually call it willy. Wonka you know chocolate factory because I got to walk around with Willy Wonka when I got to go getting well. Did he give you some candy. Yes yes. Ken Grossman definitely poured some really great candy for us Through the whole day but I definitely have to say that one of the one of the cooler moments that I've had was Ken Grossman walking over into the debt. The bench where they take all the hops out of the bales and they fluffed them up. Is there a job. That's a fluffer fluffer for our interest and in Ken Griffin goes over. Any just scoops up this giant. You know handful with both hands hops any any thrust in into my reading my facing on. What do you thinks smells like? And I'm like I think smells like Ken. Grossman asking me. What hop smells like you know it was a You Know I. I'm not really much of a celebrity crush. What kind of person and that was pretty cool? Oh my God off Fan boy uncaring. I did yeah I totally I totally say that That I totally did that can you. The neatest I would do well we. We haven't talked what else we're going to be doing today. Good old boy Caperton. I would like to ask you to read are such ratings today but I want you to use your enormous stature. Church try in channel. You know doing this in a sasquatch you know footage. I'm not I gotta work. We'll be discussing than rating. These beers would the suds ratings that are our scientists at our labs ear at sips of smokes have devised we think of them. As our signature belching sounds and those ratings ratings are as followers. What what what is a lot? Yeah Weird I got weird rating rating of every go go growl in there. A rating of one that sucks give me anything. But a blood uh the rating of two was had a belch a rating of three what are Li rating of four bodies. Should not make dat data sound A rating of five listened to that. Hang time brother. Give me another the promise. You never talk to you if you're out in the woods and you heard that talking at you. Yeah yeah follow halfway between Sasquatch and the LSU football coach. And that's yeah. That's a good talks like that channel and coach you're out there tigers exactly yeah That wanted me to take your crap in the woods. Okay so uh-huh think of eight year. Mass smells like big yes. That's for sure we're going to go through and talk about our top three out of this vertical i. We've taken the time to cut a chat with each other after we've tasted the vertical and we've come up with our top three years out of this vertical up. I is going to be twenty sixteen so this is Against Your Nevada's bigfoot barley early wind two thousand sixteen invented yet. What are some of your tasting notes on this one still balanced interesting you get? It's smooth Kambli taste the bitterness just kind of blends into the finish It's hard to turn to think you're drinking. You know four four you know aw three or four year old beer it's weird because like In some of them like actually the year before the year after it's interesting like how how off kilter I heard some of those beers issue out and sure where either the the bitterness like kind of fades out or just has kind of taken over I righteously balanced I'm the one thing that really caught. My attention with this vintage was that had changed a visually. It was definitely pronounced hazy for this particular Vintage you know up until then it was a fairly clear here but this definitely was the year that I actually wrote down hazy that soft that subtle burnt Malt Kinda character was the this was the first year that I really actually wrote that down But balance was definitely the thing that was really key. I think it was interesting too because we started off. I think all this started drinking at twenty nineteen in the doorway back to two thousand and ten on so it's just kind of interesting starting starting with fresh and working our way down here. This was kind of a sweet spot along that along that path There wasn't any real oxidation so much that I could tastes tastes Might be just a hint of it. Really hasn't affected his beer yet. No but but definitely very rich balanced to to second. What you you guys all said On that too for sure But yeah this was kind of interesting is we're kind of starting at the beginning of the journey working our way to the past. This was like one of those nice little moments along the way that was just like. Oh this is this is a good time to drink so Four years in Is a good time. Yeah and that it actually was probably the one thing that my general impression about burly winds you know hitting kind of the major inflection point. Oy is somewhere around that forty five year mark and I that was kind of a preconceived you know impression that have had chasing acing other barley wines or other Other products that some summer style that are high alcohol that yeah they really do take a certain amount of time to come out so that I was still even with that preconceived notion I still just kind of let it you know present itself has it is yeah. I was pleasantly surprised because I thought it's going to be somewhere you know in this range and I was like wow boom was significantly better than the previous the year or the year that followed it personally and in really a lot of those intense hops that you give them the fresh ones those who had a chance to kind of fall down and just kind of blend back into the flavor background even as I'm tasting it as suspending your glass now for about a half hour you know it's still really holding up incredibly. It is yeah yeah these beers all warm up. Well it's weird tasting the twenty seventeen and then the twenty fifteen right after the two thousand sixteen. It's like Oh wow. The two thousand seventeen feels like the hops are still a little time in the fifteen is like well it kind of faded off so it is like twenty six. Yeah I think it's safe to note that this isn't like it's not like a linear progression nights now coast. Is that it that it sort live like this. Ebon up and down. We gotta think like how many factors are in each individual's year hop harvest. Like what you know what else. Close the door on stuff like that. I think about later but I was just kind of throw this in. I was really. It was remarkable to me the step down from nineteen to eighteen like it was it was it was a it was more pronounced like what happened in two thousand eighteen. Do something you know await. Did I say seventeen this that only those two year. I mean it was like that. The two thousand nineteen you know that which I think. Well that astringent element can't really faded fast. Yeah well hall kind of Yeah instead of feeling attacking big step down in the center. Seat character the fruity character of the hub. That was a big notice. Well most I P as you know. Most people don't realize this but I mean usually you've got ninety to one hundred twenty days under under ideal conditions to really itch to experience the peak Impact of those hops. A lot of people. Just don't realize how quickly those the oils are so. I just felt like more hops which feel like they have a significant character. You know basically if it makes it into the bottle. aww Too old for Mike Stray from the bright tank to his mouth. orcher main well. What's interesting is our suds rating here for? The Sierra Nevada bigfoot twenty sixteen is going to be a four Turn and I guess the you know we don't do this but what made you not choose that as a five I mean I'm just curious is is it because you wanted to leave room to say I know there's something better out there. Well in my case I'll be honest I I would have raided twenty nine thousand nine hundred five. 'cause that's an I don't think that was our overall rating but I could easily give an. I don't know you just get a set. The bore somewhere I know no and I think personally for me and I know it's totally. It's a different style but that that j w well he's vertical. We did broke good way and a good way agree. So part of it is the complexity in this Beer compared to the J. W. lease I mean this is like a five layer painting. She you know compared to the Jay. WBZ was like twenty layers. You know and I think that's for me answering my own question. That was part of it. Is that the simplicity or that lack of complexity has had me thinking. I know that there's something that is going to drive a lot. More of that layer flavor was keep keep keep in mind to love those. JV Lee Beers were barely aged to like in a cognac or pork barrel or different things. But I thought all those are pretty terrible weren't they. I mean most of the cell somewhere. Yeah some some were but but there were still somewhere. I think that you know they did something to those. Now tell you about this. Twenty me sixteen. I think if we had raided it now as it's warmed up because it's actually gotten a lot better and smoothed out in my mind I would. I would honestly say is probably pushing towards a five at this point. It's warming and it's so even really do think it's gotten better. I can agree with that. One thing I like about the sixteen eighteen is it shows you what age can do to this as much as I like it. Fresh when it's aged just everything works perfectly example. It's a great example in the sixteen perfect picked up. So would you step out and just flat out tell people to say the sweet spot is Five years with with With Sierra Nevada bigfoot. Uh your mileage may vary through but I think it also. There's a lot of variables I would imagine. I honestly that probably League pick the year before year after we didn't and you know you look at GW lease which is pretty damn consistent. I think probably from year to year to year for the most part this there's probably some variations nations in in this. I would say compared to you know think so year year. I'm sure like if we have them all fresh it would be somewhat different. I think the more you rely on heavy hop flavours the more variation. That's a great point yet. Is that harvesting. I'm trying to your recipe there. It's it's the same recipe but you don't know what kind of weather conditions and how that changes the oil output good and how it tastes testing. But it's also different speaking of change. Let's talk about our number two pick Overall on this flight which was actually in the nineteen Aaron divided bigfoot. So you're tasting notes around this almost still I mean fresh rush. The hops are still. They're hard very bright young. Very very fresh These have been refrigerated since I got them. They release usually early in January. So it's it's still nine month old beer but compared to the others the hops are just interface so out there. It's very assertively bidder. I think Yeah it was still remember the first time I drink this beer and I was beer. Newbie and January rolls around. Everybody Eddie was rushing out to get their big foot's I didn't I didn't want to be left out of that well so but it was never One of the first times that had this beer sure I actually had celebration right about same time that I had big fantastic how they get released and fairly close to thirty days thing and Very different beer. So you know I think and That was my first impression was wow. This is like super bitter. The idea like this. That's what hit me right away was just how Gaugin I had not really had a lot of barley wine To really I think Sedan Dan Hud had anything to really understand the style. Well enough at the time You know I think even even after I've probably had a couple of hundred barley wines ziesel you know now. I still think that this is so intensely bitter that I think that that can probably take a very casual you. You know beer drinker. You know by surprise surprise palace but now now in a drink it. It's it's like this. Yeah this is definitely possibly a little bit of an acquired taste. I guess I think barley wine in its pure perform really shows you the differentiation between American English style. Way More than anything else like I mean you know you can say like Staus House or whatever but a lot of that is at Jones or what whatever different things but like with a an an a barley wine. You're going with really huge deep rich H.. CARAMEL multi flavors. Or you're going with kind of that plus a frigging Butler two hops. On top of in the big that the the distinction becomes that much bigger between the two. Have you ever made a barley wine. Dave have you today is I'm guessing of Mash better. That is a man. Kenny Candy. Sugar what what the Hell I just used a really big Bill and And I think I had to use like triple piggies Or something like Oh. Yeah and he's like a really big like Hackman or something like a real high alcohol at all. Yeah yeah well. The only thing I wrote down about this. That was unique was to finish off this. I actually wrote down the stringent I think to nineteen you know coming back stringent is probably. Not The right word. I think it's more of just. It's very alcohol high finishing Oh very much And the other thing that was unique about this one was was the appearance. This one was seriously clear compared the others. Yeah that was a huge thing. That was the difference Well let's talk about our saturating here for the Sierra Nevada. Bigfoot Ale Twenty nineteen vintage is also going to be a four Last beer in our collective top three is actually going to be the vintage for twenty eleven. So what'd you guys. Think about the twenty eleven bigfoot. This was the first time I wrote down Brown the darker color. Yeah this was the first time that the the tenth of the beer head states a little boozier now dams uh-huh what is the ABC on all these can roughly twelve. So Roughly I. I don't know if changes year to year or not. That's a good question. Feel my teeth anymore so I feel like like that. By the time by the time I got to twenty eleven and we were working from. Nineteen you get Bernice. Here's what I wrote my note. Was this one. Yes what's uh-huh seriously. It's working yes I like this. We talked about the nineteen being fresh the sixteen showing age. This one is another one that shows its age at twenty eleven. You know eight-year-old beer but it shows that oxidation that you expect but it's not a bad oxidation given you see those Labor's right. It's still balanced. It's still really nice to drink But you see what those effects of age are over another four five years. It's really starting to pull away from the definitely wrote down. Great balance for the balance was the nicest thing that I enjoyed about this. The white your Saint Dave. The hawks hops have really fallen down to the where. Yeah but there's still bitterness their own all of these for sure and there's an it's crazy because you know we we drank all those GW lease and you never dealt with bitterness at all. They were so there was never any of that whatsoever and so this is just such an interesting juxtaposition. Well let's talk about our subjugating here for the Sierra Nevada bigfoot Ale twenty eleven is also going to be a four yeah recall the year great balance will be right back in just one minute. Hey welcome back to sip suds and smokes on today's sends episode. We're going through a vertical tasting of Sierra. bigfoot Sierra Nevada bigfoot it's a barley wine and we have almost eleven eleven-year vertical here that we're going through my God boys. We are officially. How concerned should we? Should we talk a little bit about verticals before we can I go let's talk about some of the ventures that we've not talked I dave any vintage that that Caught your attention that you wanted to talk about. Well I'll tell you there's one that caught my attention that I am not in a good way was twenty fourteen Um I don't know what happened here. Yeah wow interesting. It is the the bitterness on this thing has it's almost like amplified over overtime. I wrote bidder. Weird like everything said raisins and ouch. Yeah Yeah there's there's definite fruitfulness in there but there's this lingering being hurt that that stays it's like bees in your mouth or something I don't know now. So these hover said twelve percent in the last assigment Hover around ten percent for saying much as a lot hotter nath. Yeah yeah so I did not care for two thousand fourteen which was interesting because I was actually in my top three. I wrote down hazy floral sweet and I did write something about the bitterness was kind of subtle but even actually tasting here with you know again I agree. There's something that is dramatically different about the malt Not The mall but the hop bitterness off this was Yeah I don't know there's components to it but I think it's that after taste that it it just sticks there and it kind of knocks me around a little bit. I didn't like it. Yeah Interesting Kendall was her vintage. You want to talk about that. We've talked about so far. Yeah I wanted to talk about eighteen. Because it wasn't one of the best ones in fact it probably was probably in my least third of if you divide these up and the reason was is. The hawks have really fallen off. Huge difference between eighteen and nineteen but eighteen hasn't had the benefit of time like hat to really develop some interesting flavors so can complexity and drink. Fresh is being good. Drink four-year-old bigfoot but two year old bigfoot much. I actually This first time I wrote down a Tad creamy and Definitely you far less bidder But that's the first time that you really that burnt You know roast. I really kind of is coming through One that's where you know they say that you know about like Sour Beers in Brett Brown I think more specifically Brett Beers. There's a like you know you can drink it fresh but then if you you have to let it go for about four or five years because in that two or three year range it is. It's do as you know it's really not going to be that great and it'll change. Yeah week-to-week almost that's amazing. Oh boy sparky was vintage that you wanted to chat about. Yeah Man I thought Twenty fifteen is really interesting to me because first of all the color was is much darker than the colors around it and once you tasted it it was actually kind of oxidized. Today's that was the first one that I had had a quite a bit of oxidation agree. That's the first one I was like boom there. It is on the nose in on the pallet. I got both ways plays and that was just kinda surprising to me because the previous years Not so much and then all of a sudden hit you with that which I think is much more of a characteristic of jd lease and stuff like that is weird to have it in this profile for the first time with all the bitterness and was it that the two thousand sixteen was so good. And you're like you hit the fifteen like that's absolutely. It was kind of a pallet shock. It was a road bump. If you we're we're not gonNA continue on the previous Line so yeah. Twenty fifteen might have been a victim of two thousand sixteen in a way. Yeah interesting though but The color was definitely much starker. Twenty fifteen was like Jan Brady. After you see Marsha. Sorry good good one. That was. That was good Dave connected with this really crappier stranger talking about Alice when he's right he's right. Caperton was their vintage that you wanted to chat about sure. Sure I. I don't know how you guys felt about it but I really liked twenty twelve thought. It was It was somehow how Maybe a little oxidized but but the mall Tina's and the bitterness and and It just it. All sort of fell into channel together for me. A little bit of oxidation didn't really detract from now it was in. I would say my the fourth pick. It wouldn't make my three because I kind of followed you guys. It's but it wasn't as good as twelve. Could have made my if it had one one more year. Yeah this was something I wrote down a dramatic aroma change. happened right about this point. In time and I was not expecting net and then I picked up the glass and I was like Oh. Hey where'd you go but I really. I thought that was an interesting acting. Mike was there. Well the only the only one I Had was the twenty four year chatted about that. But it's a good time for us to swing and talk around around. You know the the one vintage that We had here. That was not in the vertical. Was the two thousand two thousand want and the first thing that struck us was. Wow Man. That's Dr. It's really dark really dark it had it. Yeah the It really moved from being this kind of Amber Red Tend to all of these into this Brown. Is this Brown. I can't say anything. It was nearly opaque lutely borderline porter. You know probably if you looked looked at in the glass and Brown Ale. Yeah so what did you guys think about The taste profile this so it didn't hit me until now right and I think this is I gotta say that but it it The the American nece has fallen off. Totally yeah it tastes a little bit more although there's some I think there's good and bad qualities to this beer for sure it's it's more like a day. WBZ It is it really is yeah very chocolate chocolate. Yeah that was the first thing Kendall was sitting right beside me as we're tasting and we were both at the same time it can only. I'm like jolly as chocolate. The Aroma. Coming off this thing is just amazing to me. I mean it's for a nineteen year old beer. It's eighteen year old beer the first time I talked about that kind of layered taste profile. It's definitely in this now this year and this is very complex. Spare well released January two thousand so when they brewed to saying it's pushing twenty years. Yeah which I think. That's amazing like and it kind of blows the theory about like you know you can't age a lot of beers beyond five I think I I do think though. If you'RE GONNA go past five you got to let it go. It's gotta be the right beer in. This is very oxidized to me. Yeah really really works expanding. Yes what you expect in a beer. That's almost twenty years old. Yeah and it and it works in its own character and it's another layer of complexity. Yeah but even as I mean if you had just poured this without having the other beers would you have said while it's a barley wine at that would've not have said that I would have said. Wow this is really interesting porter. You know I don't know there's chocolate getting enough fruit like Dr tour characteristics to it that Kinda would maybe leave and it really is very portland like it's good. Uh really interested in the color throws especially when you compare it to all the other it saves. He looked at this thing compared to sit back. I think it's it's like a lot of you had to let it kind of come up to temp a little bit here. This is not a drink it cold you know. They'll just think how I sampled at had an amazing how different it was from the first chance that I had it to where it is. Now when you're when you're drinking barley don't let the mountain turn blue on the bottle. Yeah Yeah for sure. Yeah well. That's a good segue because we wanted to chat about just kind of approaching you know selling verticals in general because I I have a very simple you know process. You know that I follow in in a few verticals that I've collected this was wine Vertical that I had collected with the big foot and I actually had a set down and tastes it The vertical that I have been keeping track with longtime ago So it was nice. Ah kind of repeating the exercise that I had done. Maybe like eight nine years ago to come back around and kind of do this again so that was really Kinda cool My cases is man served. So there's a couple of other verticals that I still have and I'm sure we'll catch up with him here on the show at some point on a dock fish head one twenty one. They have great thing. My process for verticals is pretty much the same thing I tend to buy at least two beers and I drink one fresh rush and then I throw the other one in the cellar. Sometimes I'll buy three and what I'll do if I have if I'll buy three is usually have one immediately and then Sit there for a year and then I have that one and then the third one honestly sit I have it in vertical style. kind of like we're doing so you guys have any. Yeah that's one thing I would encourage our listeners. It's easy to build a big foot of article because they come in a six pack Blue Cup of fresh put a couple of way and then have multiple vertebral audible verticals year-over-year to usually does the trick for me. Yeah I was GONNA say sweets Honda Sixers and just make sure could if you try to. I mean you need a dark cool place. It's going to stay fairly consistent. That's the thing I A seller my beers. I've got a refrigerator with temp controls. Set at fifty five. See that's go. That's awesome man. Yeah minor Kept you know at at temp as well but August. You know the thing I would say. This is very true of both souring wine and beer and some other products as well as you know. A very consistent temperature her with not a lot of variation so listen. You don't have a cool place choose dry in no light At least in in a place that doesn't get any heat or a dramatic change in temperature so bottom of closet bottom of a hallway closet that you go into like twice a year ear. Great choice you know for doing something like that you know and I think there's some people that will end up doing stuff with Chest freezers all set the regular. So it'll go to fifty five but I had a friend. That jurists recently has regulator Spas doubt on everything froze it froze it froze and it'd been fine for years and then it spiked and went crazy and he lost everything they use a chest freezer for fermentation that with a with a wine of wine in cooler. That had that was you know. Partisan James no his entire entire bones while collection a heated up and down. Yeah opened it up. Nearly the he deck me I was like. Wow that's degrees in. Here's frankly didn't have anything in there. That was. Somebody's been balling this. Wow nothing like I couldn. All those New York Wind verticals. Ah Tendons right at appreciate you sending those to make so anyway. Now you know what happened to so yeah so I think those are all good solid tips for people you know if they're interested in pick the right kind of big bear and go for it picks beer and so yeah. That's you know that's another tip. That Reverend Mark says is you know. Make sure it's of high alcohol. You no doubt yeah you know adjuncts adjuncts either. Because I said this but I I will come out. Come back though I have seller D-. IPA's things they say. Don't sell her an interesting. Yeah sometimes it works and it actually they bill good flavors but vertical tenure vertical of course light. Yes yeah yeah well I do have sell you the so the beer that was actually sitting in front of this two thousand was a Yazoo sly ripe porter. The first year they offered. Oh Actually put it right back on the shelf from like it'll be interesting as save this for the which fear sex the DOS payrolls the sly reporte. They got assume that that's in the back of my that I just I just leave it back there. A lot of a lot of the you know how high alcohol content is definitely going to be your friend in those situations. Usually Darker Beers tend to each a little bit better nats hours obviously on but a lot of these like really heavily. Adjunct Adjunct stoute's and stuff like that don't necessarily know true. Those are not your after twelve years. They actually start to separate. And there's a layer of lactose floating so I thought it Kinda close out our discussion here today with talking about this flight in general you because You know you don't get sit down and do these kind of things you know. Every day I mean nope was I mean did the flight kind of pan out the way you thought it was or any surprises or moments that you had. I'm always surprised by how things age you know. You get that five to eight years and it's really hit intermission. Never know what you're going to get. That's just awful. Thought it would be this slow sort of slide yet is never not at yeah. I think he's always have to knowledge. How the variables between all the different ingredients and all the different conditions careers? Go through over the course of their life until you get them to the bottle to open. It is going to play a part in it. I like the roller coaster effect that this vertical add. It wasn't wasn't a just a slow linear kind of thing you know. They were a lot so like different. Hi Lo's yeah. I just appreciate kindle like holding onto these beers and and yeah. I'm happy to do it. Yeah I would totally Tell people by bigfoot throw it in a throw in the bottom of for four or five years. Yeah you'll enjoy drink a few seller few well that's it for our episode stay on the Sierra Nevada's bigfoot. Hey guess what you managed to find where we're at today wherever you're listening to us whether it be on radio or satellite or online somewhere. We're all over the place you can find us on apple podcasts. Google podcast iheartradio spotify. Nearly any place that you can listen to a podcast. The easiest way to fund our show is on your phone. Just ask Alexis Siri Google or any of the chicks on your phone play podcast sip suds and smokes and as always as we are super eager to read your feedback and questions you can always reach US online at INFO at Cyp Suds and smokes dot com our daily tasting notes flow out on twitter and instagram. Every day at Cyp Sud smoke and our facebook page is always buzzing with lots of News as you. Please take the time to rate episode. If you're listening online is kindle a great blog WANNA shells a little bit about that my beautiful wife and I blog about the good news of good beer beer makes three dot com. You can also find us on instagram. Thanks Kendall sparky thanks for joining us today. Always my pleasure yet got more barley wine or you're done fair. I'm done a kid a boy. Gabriel joining US absolutely. It's been a pleasure. Keep up the fight against Kudzu. Don't be lulled into complacency by winter. Yes it sleeps never. Yeah Dave there are say a thank you dare I say it. You're welcome I. Well this is Mike asking you comeback. Act Join US for another exciting episode of SIP sudden smokes and I will ask you to keep on. Yeah And this has been a one ten ham production of SIP Suds and smokes a program devoted to the appreciation of some of the finer slices of lightning from the dude in the basement studios studios your host. The good old boys will see all next time.
How The Official California Voter Guide Gets Made
"From Cutie. It's an election year. In case you hadn't noticed, and that means we're all being bombarded with messages about all the propositions on the ballot, this November level, the playing field for women and people of Color in California words shot you can afford to pay your fair share the apocalypse now don't go backwards California. Yes. No twenty one. Twenty insist on Pravo on proposition sixteen don't divide us. It's a lot and that's why the California Secretary of State's office publishes an official voter information guide. It's meant to help us voters make informed decisions, bakeries, listener, Colin Nichols wanted to know more about it who is derived the arguments for and against the ballot measures the state's official voter information guide. Our they picked and why does Gary Wesley Right so many of them. Hi Everyone I'm Katrina. Schwartz in for a Livia Allen Price, it's been all elections all the time at bay curious these past few weeks check out our profit series explaining all twelve of the statewide propositions on the ballot this year if you haven't already and to top it all off this week, we're getting into the nuts and bolts of the official California voter guide who's behind it how does it come together and who the heck's this Gary Wesley Guy? Support for Bay curious comes from Sierra Nevada brewing company. No matter how people enjoy the outdoors Sierra Nevada to help make sure their voices are heard. Sierra Nevada supports protect our winters, and it's make your plan to vote campaign learn more at Sierra Nevada dot com. The official voter guide summarizes each ballot measure give some context and. The main arguments for and against them all in one place here to tell us all about it is K. Q. Weedy reporter Khloe Volkmann. Hi, chloe. Hey Katrina okay. So who's Gary Wisely Gary Wesley the Great California official Voter Guide Naysayer we're GONNA get him in a bit but first some voter guide basics. Like it comes in ten languages the garlic Hongo knee home. Video Tie. John One English Espanol him the come on in several formats including large print and audio. Welcome to the audio version of the California voter information guide for the November Third Two thousand and twenty general election repaired by the California Secretary of State's office. Wow that's a lot of work and the Secretary of State's office males the paper version to over eleven million households yet depending on the number of measures on the ballot it costs between six and fourteen million dollars to produce each time but they save money by printing. It's on this thin crappy paper. And I tend to scribble all the pages and leave a thing lying around reporting this story for Bay curious, Katrina has given me a whole new respect for what it takes to get this booklet into voters mailboxes. Every couple years for starters are learned surprising things about it from the person who oversees its production. My name is Joanna. Suffered I'm the assistant chief of elections for the Secretary of State's office. says. California. has been publishing an official voter guide in some form or other since the early nineteen hundreds, it's the largest mailing that the secretary of State's office puts out and California is among only a dozen or so us states offer this resource. We often have Californians who move away and say, oh my gosh. Information died in my state. How do I make this happened I miss it hiker up in California, and I had no idea that other states don't make a voter guide. So how do they put it together? Join. US says about four months before the election, the secretary of State's office collects information for the guide from four sources I. Joanna and her team writes up some basic somehow and wet vote. Second. Does the Attorney General Who's responsible for writing the basic ballot language namely, the ballot titles and summaries proposition twenty, four Amends Consumer Privacy Laws Initiative Statute. Third. The state's legislative analyst contributes a detailed breakdown of each measure. It includes things like historical context, financial impacts and costs under state law certain businesses that operate in California and collect personal data must meet consumer data privacy requirements. Fourth and last. The Secretary of State's office solicits arguments for each of the measures. One arguments in favor one arguments against and rebuttals to each four in total for. and. Who are the lucky people who get to write these things I mean they're worth go out to at least eleven million households, right so the bottom line Katrina is that anyone can submit an argument for or against a ballot measure the secretary of state posts the propositions on their websites and people have a little less than three weeks to submit arguments way but not everybody who sends in an argument gets picked right exactly. Joanna suffered says there's a pecking order when it comes to selecting the authors. said. There is a preference in priority outlined in our state elections code. It's all laid out in section nine, zero, six, seven it gets complicated. Generally members of the legislature get bus tips on writing measures they put on the ballot. Now Initiative and referendum measures that required voter signatures to qualify. It's the people pushing the proposition that get I shocked. Next. In the hierarchy of all this, you have advocacy groups, folks like the League of women voters generally, that same pecking order holds for arguments against propositions as well. There's one difference way down there at the bottom of the pile individual citizens occasionally gets a shot at writing a now argument that only happens when no one else above them in the hierarchy does it We tend to get more submissions for the arguments against on this gary was Lee comes in our famous I say, yes, I would say he's unique especially as an individual and he always has something to say and submits and argument generally each and every time Gary Wesley is a lawyer in Silicon Valley and he believes firmly that any official. California. Voter Guide should have arguments against propositions to that's why over the past forty years he submitted and published dozens of no arguments sometimes, he's the only one that has submitted an argument we would hate for there to be any argument despite his notoriety, there's even a register fridge dedicated to his. Temperament Gary declined a request for an interview for this story and I quote thanks but no, no arguments of mine is in the current voter guide. Maybe next time I have arguments in their signed Gary, Wesley Better Luck next time Gary Joanna from the Secretary of State's office says she appreciates that Gary Takes Democracy so seriously we why both sides represented it is a non. Publication. Okay. So now that we know how the voter guide comes together, should we trust it? Well, that's a good question. Voters should be aware that the arguments for and against ballot measures our opinions. It does say that right here in the guide, please note that the arguments for and against each measure are the opinions of the authors and they have not been checked for accuracy by any official agency well, and what about that claim of nonpartisanship I mean the attorney general was sued a bunch of. Times. This summer for how he worded some about measures, you're right Katrina, the attorney general is supposed to write those titles and summaries in a completely neutral way this year though a bunch of campaigns accused California's Attorney General, Havi, Sarah of misleading voters with his write-ups, and apparently this happens almost every year. But the colts generally side with the attorney general on these things and a Sacramento Superior Court judge. Lori L. wrote several of how rulings this summer quotes. The court is not a copy editor. Thanks to this week's question asker. Colin Nichols you checked in with him. Khloe. Didn't you after you're finished with the story right? Dede's Katrina and Collins says, he's glad the official California fighting guide exists I think it's valuable overall. I like that it exists at least there's some kind of default information for everyone. WHO's burden is a tough one to answer because it's so visits like I had to read this California State Elections Code and it is a bad. All right. Well, thank you, chloe. Pleasures. Always Katrina. All right. If you're looking for more information and context about what's on your ballot checkout K. E. D. voter guide at K. Q. E. D. dot org slash voter guide. Our show is made by Olivia Allen, Price Rob Speight and me Katrina. Schwarz Bay curious is made in San. Francisco at member supported cake.
We Built This City on ... Water and Marsh?
"Hello everybody this is bay curious. We're headed to downtown San Francisco to meet this week's question. Asker Canes Nicole. I live in the Coal Valley neighborhood of San Francisco Cisco now Nicole has a grandmother in the bay area who has always given this advice. Whenever a family member is getting ready to move somewhere. She'll always say never eleven. The place that's built on land fill land has a history of causing problems in the bay area like during the Loma Prieta earthquake in one thousand nine hundred nine scores scores of buildings. In San Francisco's Marina neighborhood were destroyed in the quake and the fires that followed it in large part because the neighborhood is built on loose sand. Can't Nicole wants to follow her grandmother's advice but she needs to know a few things. What neighborhoods and cities in the bay area built on filled land. And what if anything thing are the city's neighborhoods. Doing to mitigate risk as much as they brought Nicole downtown to give her glimpse at part of the answer C. were on I and market Fills coffees here. People are going about their business. How far away from the water like five six blocks. Yeah Pretty Pretty decently part into the city. So there's actually a little something over here. Nicole and I walk over to a metal plaque embedded in the sidewalk walk. This tablet marks the shoreline of San Francisco Bay at the time of the discovery of gold in California January. Twenty four th eighteen. Forty eight where where we are right now would have been underwater hard to believe very hard to believe because we are amongst lots of skyscrapers. I'm your host Olivia Allen Price Today. We're learning what Phil is soon where we've done it and how we're shoring up that land. We'll get to it right after this support for bay curious comes from Sierra Nevada Brewing Company family owned operated and argued argued over. Since one thousand nine hundred reminding listeners to think for themselves but drink with others. SIERRA NEVADA DOT com all right to help us answer Nicole's question and we brought in reporter Kelly o'mara Hey Kelly Halevi so I think the first step here is going to be understanding what exactly fill is so way back. In the day I've talking pre eighteen. Hundreds the coastline of the bay looked very different. The extent of marsh deposits around the Bay was ten times as large as it is now. This is Keith. Knutson from the US Geological Survey he says lots of the marshlands and tidal wetlands of the Bay got drained drained or filled in over time. All those marshes. That aren't there anymore. They're now built on because we filled them. And if you look at maps of the old coastline of the Interbay well. It looked very different. Two hundred years ago the line between what was land and water wasn't always as distinct as it is. Now what used to be titled Marsh extended all the way north along soon bay down to San Jose and in the city. neighborhoods like mission. Bay didn't even exist all. This destruction of our marshy coastline was actually encouraged by Congress when they passed the US swamp. Land Act of eighteen fifty. The government basically told people they could claim marsh or swamp land as their own property as long as they drained it and used it for agriculture. So a lot of people who struck out west started coming up with has technologies to create more solid land and some of that technology was not as fancy as you might think the build a big metal metal wall usually Louis and then they would stick a suction hose on the bay side down to the bottom and they would suck up the sand or whatever was on the bottom and pump it on the land side of that wall wall till they filled up the area then they would just let it dry out sometimes. It took months or years. I think in general draining wetlands and building levees was way H. cheaper than creating totally artificial land from scratch so when people commonly talked about Phil around the bay area there often actually talking about two two different things. One artificial fill like treasure island or the marina where land was made out of debris rocks and mud and to reclaimed or drained marshlands and wetlands like up along the North Bay or down at the south end of the San Francisco Bay by the nineteen fifties. When the Army Corps of Engineers Engineers did a study of the bay area. They found more than forty percent of marshlands and wetlands. That could be converted. Saad land had been converted that added up to to about two hundred and forty three square miles of new land around the bay. For lots of reasons we try not to do that anymore. We don't encroach on the bay like we used to do. After decades of building Phil and draining tidal marshes public opinion shifted mostly because of growing environmental concerns in the nineteen fifties when the Army Corps of Engineers. Did it study. They published a map. Projecting Bay would look like by twenty twenty and it showed huge amounts of the bay continuing doing to be filled it. When that picture ran in the newspaper it really freaked people out the state legislature soon passed a law. Putting putting an end to Bay infill part of Nicole's concern about building on artificial fill has to do with earthquakes which is where keys expertise really really comes in. The biggest problem he says is where we put the film. First of all we put them over really soft ground old marsh. Deposits and those marsh deposits tend to amplify earthquake. So they make the shaking worse. Another problem is lots of the early. Artificial fill wasn't built with the best materials or engineering practices. A lot of the Phil was placed hundred years ago or a long time ago before we knew how we knew much about earth quakes at all in fact act so it's susceptible to earthquake related problems ground failure. We call it most prominently liquefaction. Liquefaction happens when you have strong shaking loose materials and high groundwater those three ingredients combined if they're shaking if these deposits are shaken they can liquefy which means they they stop behaving like ground like a solid and they behaved like a liquid. Okay so it's not like the whole ground turns into a swimming pool or anything but parts here and there are start acting like quicksand buildings. Ken Sink and they usually sink. Unevenly also things that are in the ground and filled with Air like sewage pipes can float to the surface. Also bad things can happen if the ground local force now to be clear are the areas that are just drained wetlands and Bay mud without artificial fill on top are not at high risk of liquefaction. It's really the place is built on. Fill where this could happen. Plus there are some spots along streams we're liquefaction occurs naturally to okay so we know this can happen in neighborhoods built on fill but as Nicole noted and we keep building in those areas. Anyway here we are in twenty nineteen and those neighborhoods in San Francisco. That are built on still that I know of are some populaces. Listen city. We've got a lot of people living on Phil. Are we doing anything to shore up the Land Kelly. It sounds like the answer is not really no not really. It's easiest to take steps to prevent liquefaction at the beginning before even putting in the Phil but around the bay area most neighborhoods UNFIL- are already already well established so their options are limited. Now one of the few places where development is being planned on top of artificial fill is treasure island so they are able to try out some more intense mitigation techniques. They're quick side note. We did a two part series a few weeks ago about treasure island. So if you want to know more about what's being done on the island and it'll work. Check out the link in our show notes. That's also in our science reporter. Kevin spoke to Bob Beck the director of development there about this process. It's been a UH ultimately a three step process the installation of the Wick Wick trains. -Vivor Tori compaction followed by surcharge. When heavy buildings are put on top of artificial official fill that FILL SETTLES OR SINKS. So what they're doing on treasure island is draining the water out of the ground shaking to let it settle before building and then also trying to compact packed it by pushing down on the soil with lots of extra heavy dirt the visual example that. I think a lot of people can relate to is taking a glass jar and filling it with Rice or beans and then taking that glass jar and tapping it on the table. There are more extreme techniques that have been tried in other places but for most areas built on artificial. Fill Phil around here. We don't have a lot of options. No we have too much development already on film C.. You can't go nuts. For example you can't suck the water out of the land under one development element without causing problems for the building next door. That's known as de watering if you follow local news de Watering might sound familiar. Yeah well a lot out of this has come up with the construction happening south of market which is a neighborhood mostly built on Phil like the new Transbay Terminal Day use some de watering techniques. But but then the Millennium Tower developers say that impacted their building next door which started sinking even though the tower use standard practices for building on top of artificial fill. Sinking and tilting. Aren't the only problem. San Francisco's Millennium Tower. Now a large crack in a window that standard practice that the Millennium Tower used it was built on top of a Slab Foundation. So the whole thing stinks at least it. Does it in one piece but cracks forming in the building have made some people wonder if that didn't quite work the the way it was supposed to the other option commonly used is to build on what are called friction piles they go deep into the mud underground some new buildings or even extending our piles all all the way down to the bedrock but short of building a better foundation. There's not much you can do about things already built on fill. No that's why the only other thing that changed after the nineteen eighty eighty nine earthquake was a requirement. Now tell people if they live in one of these hazard zones. The state is charged. The California logical survey is charged with mapping areas to to show where there is this hazard. USGS has created hazard maps to show if your home is at risk of liquefaction which we linked to online. But those maps don't don't necessarily tell you if you're living on Phil or on ground that's just a natural hazard which is what. Nicole wanted to know so the only way to really know for sure what under into your house is to do. A survey or a boring. Hire geologists and dig deep into the ground or you can use the mapping technique usgs uses. We overlay them on in Kern maps and then the boundary between what used to be the coastline and what is the current coastline. That's been filled. Seems obvious though this does potentially miss some specific perfect neighborhoods or individual locations. But you can see all the major spots like the marina treasure island foster city the shoreline on Emoryville. Alameda most of SFO. So is built on Phil. We've got all sorts of maps to help you at bay curious dot org so if you want to know before you move in somewhere check that out or just ask before you buy since legally really they have to tell you think. Today's episode was reported by Kelly. Amara our question asker was. Nicole are fill map was made by cake. Ud's data the reporter. Lisa pickoff white thanks to Keith. Knutson with the USGS and Alexandra cannock for their help with that project. Bay Curious is made in San Francisco. Member supported K. Q. E. D. Allen Price. Have a great week.
The Seattle Music Scene: A Glimpse At The Future
"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Tito's handmade vodka mourn inbred in Austin, Texas. The live music capital of the world, eighty proof, Tito's, handmade, vodka, fifth generation, inC, distilled and bottled in Austin, Texas, drag has been around for a while, in the kabuki tradition in Japan in minstrel shows in vaudeville, but one TV show made it mainstream. Now. We breakdown drags current renaissance checkout NPR's. It's been a minute now from pure music, you connected to all songs, considered. I'm Bob Boylan. I am in Seattle. I am with the chief content officer of key XP better known as Kevin. Cole. Also, the host of the afternoon show here at K, X P. And I'm kind of excited to be here. We're here for the time he does contest, but we're here to have fun. Yeah. It's great having here. Welcome, welcome back. We're doing something on an NPR music talking all month about Seattle music. I wanted to know what you loved about Seattle music and get turned onto stuff. I'd never ever discover. Yeah, thanks for the opportunity to do that. I mean Seattle in an insanely vibrant music scene. And as you mentioned, we are collaborating with NPR music this month to showcase Seattle through a series of articles in the first one really kind of positions. Seattle in twenty nineteen against the context of nineteen eighty nine when Nirvana's bleach came out. Right. And right on the cusp of the explosion of, of grunge, which really came to define the city for good for bad for a long time. Long time. Obviously, the scene is Ben incredible for quite a while, and huge bans death, kaffir acuity modest mouse taco cat car seat. Headrests fleet foxes had the heart are more kind of recent bands or bands of less fifteen years or so that redefined Seattle. But the first piece that we published on NPR music was really about fifteen new and emerging bands, mostly under the rate bands that, that we collectively here at K X are excited about pleading me, something, because I'm sure this is going to go the Matt, let's start out with Chong the nomad and, and who is Chong Chang, the nomad. She's really kind of gotten a buzz for self. Locally here really innovative and kind of experimental. Hip hop slash electronic pop artist, but throws a lot of curves in there in terms of her productions down technique, and her performances. You might hear a ukulele or her Monica in a dance form setting where it's not very obvious though. You know it still sounds very electron IQ and hip hop edgy. But it was here. What song? Well, this is a new song that she just released with Flint Eastwood, a pop autour out of Detroit, and it's called nothing else. I'm a pinball machine. Ice cream Sunday. I'm a broken machine. Mechanic. I was poofs. Without a compass in Manab set. Now, your car. Shoot. Because I think. Have you screen? In the mall. Hi. Of the one. Fear. Now you in. Well. Abby thinking. That didn't expect the popping to this one that all the sound textures were happening. But it all glued really well together. I see it in a dance club. I could see the fund that she could have mutating this thing every night differently. Yeah. Had live. It's a China nomad, super infectious and fun. And they're spontaneous. She might kick off her shoes, and be dancing, barefoot and kind of cheerleading, well, orchestrating her songs, and, yeah, the song is more poppy hooky than some of the more kind of experimental cut and paste stuff that she maybe started out doing his music out. Can I is a record yet? This as far as I know was just released digitally. Okay. A couple of weeks ago. Chong chanda. No mad. Nothing else with Flint Eastwood. So let's stay on the dancer vein of things. Yeah. So that man there's, there's a lot going on in Seattle. When you think of the hip hop, seeing, we're gonna play do normal, but there's artists like, gifted gab of knife nights, which is Eric blood and Ishmail Butler, Eric blood, produced, the Shabazz, palaces, with Ishmail who's in Shabazz palaces, other stuff, the boss, who was on the panel, a couple years ago for the tiny desk, cons. Right. Right. One of the judges. Yeah. And there's just a an incredible scene here in a super Diversey in one of the features the Seattle features that we're doing is about collectives. And there's a couple of collective like black constellation which Abaza palaces OC notes styles and Eric blood are part of, and that, that sort of a multidisciplinary collective that sorta hard to define their. Performance art events. There might be, you know, physical. Art shows. There may be music. Yeah. There's all sorts of stuff like that happening do normal, who we're going to hear as part of a collective called sixty nine fifty. There's also a label called crane city records, here in Seattle, that do we call these days, crane city insure. Looks like. It's insane. It's nuts here. The amount of people moving in and all the construction and all that is, is massive as is the art scene. But, you know, you know how those go hand in hand in, you know, there's definitely fear and a lot of artists working gentrification issues around affordability into their into their signed artists. Come in Maplewood changes are just can't afford it gone. Yep. That's happening big time. So there's a lot of concern here, and certainly, K XP, that is something that, that were actively trying to play a role in making sure artists have the support that they need to be able to create great music to make Seattle an awesome place to live in the shadow of the cranes. So listen to somebody from do normal. DO. N. O. R M, A L on work, right? She's got such a laid back delivery style, but really intense amazing lyrics asong is called. The ego slave. I. Somebody to make. Make for much. If so my doesn't cry. Thing I thought. Give it back then. I was. Ice. Eagle great. Something. The words. Never let. Vice. I don't wanna have to not find out, okay? I'll show you what is trust? But you can always you would stay sister. Need us there? Right now. Now, we go stay. Remember that? Should be thankful. Right. Which. Real big fish. Ever renting. I think everybody. I still I think I'm projecting right now. Okay. I'll show you what this type. Note dying, but you kinda wish you some those may Monday devils her life in grade. I think. I think I wonder don't the naked tippety. He never was was your boys. Your son just trusting March. Rain. Everybody thinks. Never. Rain. One. All right. Buddy. They just. Different when NATO. Does your honky? On. I promise. March. There. Penny. Rain. This is really good. I need to see the stuff in person. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Do normal, so artists. But so compelling live. There's just a quality to the commitment. She has to the story. She's telling her with laptop, or what is going because that compelling thing, I have trouble with I don't know, go see somebody in there, simply behind one of balancing, my laptop here, and it's hard to make Capelle morally, yeah. Yeah. It works eight you are. Yeah. It or early works in, in do normals case. You know, it's laptop driven. But she steps aside and, and grabs a Mike and really lays into it. That's, but in this kind of laid back way, so to interesting juxtaposition, because she's definitely laid back, but it's still really compelling. And this came from twenty seventeen record. There was one of. Yeah. That was one of my favorite album to the is called third daughter, and she's working on a new album that I believe is called Yippee. Now, I know guitars, haven't left Seattle, so let's do something Qatar-based. Okay. This is versus. This is on hardly records. Great local label the new elements, ten thousand maybe the best way to sorta describe this band is their debut album. They called nirvana. This is called tethered abandons versing that takes a lot of hoops bullets do it. Children. The guy. Self. Yeah. That was good. That's first thing and their young Seattle band early in their career like first album may maybe sad. This is the second album, which is called ten thousand and came out in may. That's was tethered. I like that a lot. And that was that, that for versing was little more pop straight ahead chill side. A lot of the rest of the album is more agro intense like noisy in your face. I don't know. I, I don't know them at all. But I, I hear in theory aside to them to do. They have that or not. Yeah. I think that song, it really comes out like that I think is part of what attracted me to that song. I love some of their just noisy straight ahead rockers, but, but that's has a stout kinda hook. Yeah it's good. I'm gonna more with TJ. Kevin. Cole Seattle, Washington, talking about Seattle music will be right back. And you're listening to also. Considered from NPR music, support for this podcast and the following message come from state farm, who's agents know that your car, and home are more than just big purchases their big part of your life. You put the time into making them your own. So now it's time to protect them with your own personal state farm agents, not only do they truly get you, but they'll be there for you, when you need them. And with over nineteen thousand agents in neighborhoods across the US, there could be one just around the corner. More state farm dot com or one eight hundred state farm state farm here to help life, go right. Support also comes from Sierra Nevada brewing company in nineteen eighty with a few thousand dollars and used area. Quip -ment, Ken Grossman founded. Sierra Nevada brewing company cans award winning ales, propelled him from home Homebrew craft brewer today, Ken and his family still own one hundred percents of the company, one of the most successful indigo. Pendant craft breweries in America. More at Sierra Nevada dot com. I'm Bob boiling them here in Seattle with Kevin Cole, Kevin is the host of the afternoon show. But we're a lot earlier than that in the day getting pumped up for the tiny contest, which happens on this day of recording, this would bring in Quin Christoffersen and to, to play a concert with some local Seattle bands, who entered the contest. He really looking forward to to this event as, as I am every year, and it's just amazing to also be able to touch base with you. And connect with you again. You had like six thousand entries. Yes. Yeah. When I get home from the end of this tour, an hour after I get off, my flight from Austin among authors of Seattle band who played here last year will be at my desk, pointing now they didn't win the contest, but they were my heart. And so they'll be there. And, and I gotta say they won my heart to at the tiny. Desk concert. We did last year and shortly after that one just the stories amazing. And I just loved the intensity of the performance and how you know they get into it. So I had him on my show about a month after thanks to you. So thank you felt some more Seattle music. We got a couple more cuts. Yes, this is a ban. I don't really know much about action s just got the record. Their debut album came out in April and been planning show, pretty much every show, the are a horn core band, and I. Love it. They're like ferocious punk rock. But it's driven by horns in lyrically, and the delivery of the vocals is just for Rochas and intense as well. In fact, the song is called menace. Yeah. Horn core at its finest here is action s. Adapt? Right. Action s just imagine being like bartered by a Susa phone at some point in the exactly. Yeah. That would be a fun show to see. They describe that song as the official anthem of desire menace, is, but I want more. That's great. So one more pick from Seattle music scene. When we this is a Bank called Cumulus. It is how ex knee cough. Ski and it's, it's straight ahead. Pop her album comfort world deserves second, but it'd been awhile, since the first album, at least for four years. And during that time she had gone through all bunch of stuff like broken up with, you know, in her relationship lost her job and really went through depression, and then took all these factors and didn't know she was going to make music, but it was music, gutter out of it. And the song is called. Saying to me, and it's just a really beautiful song about a lost relationship and and change in status. I guess we'll, let's go out on Cumulus. Great doing this is their record from Cumulus from all of this material that's out now. And the album is called comfort world. Yeah. It's out now. And Bob, thank you so much. I really appreciate the opportunity, share some of the music coming out of Seattle knights timing. I love this. Thank you so much. Kevin coal from NPR music. I'm Bob boiling. It's all songs considered. Has been. Since two thousand two. Me. This. Will you? To me. Talk. Could be the same. See. Stick. Search bad. We need to. To March and. And the things we've. For me. Will you?
How Old Oaklands Historic Buildings Survived Decay (and Demolition)
"I'm Olivia Alan price, and this is bakery. Ass-? We're starting today's episode in Oakland old Oakland to be precise. It's a small neighborhood just a few square blocks right next door to the Oakland convention center as its name suggests walking around kind of feels like stepping into a time machine brick lined sidewalks lead into cute shops and restaurants, and many of the buildings are beautiful old Victorians that can seem very out of place. It's surrounded by highway. It's surrounded by the downtown turnabout Chinatown. This is Spencer Barton who lives just around the corner from old Oakland, it's sort of odd that you've got older buildings, and what appear to be older businesses that still exists. I guess in an area that I would have thought would have been bulldozed and turned into skyscrapers Spencer s bay curious. Basically what the heck is old Oakland doing here? We'll have that answer after the break. Stick around. Support for bay curious comes from Sierra Nevada brewing company, family owned operated and argued over since nineteen eighty reminding listeners to think for themselves but drink with others Sierra, Nevada dot com for point are Ryan Levy takes a story from here to help us understand the history of old Oakland Spencer, and I had to the neighborhoods heart ninth street and Washington where we are right now is the downtown of Oakland if the eighteen seventies, Emily, Allen works cities, cultural affairs department, and she says in the mid eighteen hundreds Oakland, just a small town across from booming San Francisco, but once the railroad came through then things really start to happen. People came to California from all over the country on the transcontinental railroad, and they disembarked in Oakland. Many of them were African Americans recently freed from slavery. There was an ideal place for families Allen says especially in comparison to cold and hilly San Francisco was a place you could on the weekends. You wanted to stroll around and enjoy fresh air and open space in urban setting. You could do that in Oakland. The city's population tripled from eighteen seventy to eighteen eighty and downtown Oakland built up to support. This influx of new residents. Allen tells Spencer that department stores bakeries tailors offices liquor stores markets and more fill the storefronts of the grand Victorians that lined Washington street and Broadway. It wasn't really a residential area. Like this really was sort of downtown. Claims that the ground floor were commercial like you see it today. And so the upper floors were residential the nineteen earthquake. And fires that devastated. San Francisco brought even more people to Oakland. But as new residents poured into the city and its grew the center of town, gradually moved further uptown along Broadway leaving old Oakland behind you. Get the pond shops coming in you, get the hotel rooms now become rooming houses, and are less desirable to be in December goes gradual decline that happens in a lot of places thirties and forties and fifties. And then by the sixties this area was largely considered skid row. And there weren't very many retail businesses on this street Elena Toronto is the owner of rattles international market in. Although Clint her great grandfather opened the deli in eighteen ninety seven and was one of the few spots that survived the neighborhood's decline in the mid twentieth century. So we still did a good business, but the neighborhood had gone downhill, even though it had seen better days. Many of old Oakland's original buildings from the nineteenth century still remained one writer in the nineteen seventies described them as the most distinguished composition of late Victorian architecture west of the Mississippi, and they caught the eye of a young architecture student from UC Berkeley, I remember very distinctly. It just burned an image into. My brain's Glenn stork was in Oakland for a city planning assignment in the early sixties. When he first saw what was then referred to as Victoria. Foreign row, you know, San Francisco lost so much of its historical architecture after the earthquake and fire so to see this collection of buildings in Oakland. It was really impressive to me about a decade passes at this point, many of those gorgeous Victorians have been condemned and padlocked stork by then a full-fledged architect focusing on. Historical rehabilitation gets a call from a friend telling him that one of them is up for sale. We've looked at it pretty skeptically. And and thought, you know, maybe this is something that could be saved. And maybe we ought to just figure out a way to do it. So that that's how it started later that year story and a different friend purchased another building across the street from the first, but they knew even if they restored these buildings. It would be hard to find commercial tenants who'd want to move into a neighborhood filled with condemned into Kane buildings we knew that we had to either get other property owners or the city eventually to participate. And save this neighborhood. They went around to see if the other building owners would be interested in a restoration project. They laughed at us. You know, they just sit who are you crazy at that time. It was a lot easier to destroy a neighborhood than to preserve it. This was the heyday of redevelopment are urban renewal projects, and it wasn't uncommon for cities and developers to level entire neighborhoods, which were often home to communities of color. You could go into city hall for about thirty five bucks. Get a permit to demolish building store feared the same thing would happen to the historic business district and old Oakland the corner of eighth and Washington there were three magnificent buildings and in the course of our working trying to put all Oakland together. One by one these buildings disappeared stork partner with city leaders, including the head of the redevelopment agency and the city's first black mayor Lionel Wilson to try and save the neighborhood. But it wasn't a top priority. I think it was seventy five. That we finally got something official from the city from the redevelopment agency this meant Oakland could use eminent domain to buy the buildings and issue bonds to help pay for the project several of the businesses that were being bought out did push back, and it wasn't until the mid eighties. More than twenty years after store, I visited Victorian row that all the original tenants had left and the restoration was able to begin in earnest, then it was fulfilled. We were underway on every single building in the two original buildings they'd purchased more than a decade ago were the first to be restored and welcoming tenants the law firm Goldfarb Littman company called better lock one night channel four K R O N opened up a spay news bureau, they kept restoring more buildings and securing more tenants of bookstore in Ethiopia and restaurant Abreu hub. And just as they were starting to feel good the ground began shifting beneath their feet. Eat, ladies and gentlemen, we are going through an earthquake at this very moment earthquake that has been rattling this studio and shaking the lights above us for almost a full minute now, and I can tell you in almost twenty or at a meeting sitting in a conference table and building started to shake and shake and shake and less loud. Roar seemed to sweep over the whole area. It had that feeling like the world's coming on glued. But when they walked outside fearing the worst from the massive Loma Prieta earthquake. They saw that all of old Oakland was still standing, and in fact, not a broken window even though the buildings had survived. Finding enough money to continue with the restorations was a struggle and in nineteen ninety when the Bank helping to fund the project called in its loan. Stork didn't have the money. We couldn't survive that. And so the Oakland project fell into bankruptcy. Now. This wasn't the end of old Oakland the Bank took over and eventually sold the project to a new developer in two thousand one progress was slow but over the past few years things have picked up an old Oakland is thriving. Now, it's got trendy stores restaurants and coffee shops, a popular farmers market fills the street every Friday, there's even a Steph curry popup store, but none of that might have happened if lent store hadn't stumbled upon those forgotten Victorians more than fifty years ago. I'm apps. Convinced that in probably a year or two you would have seen. This just bear bear land picking locks. That story was reported by Ryan Levy, a big thanks to Spencer Barton who wrote in with today's question. This is the part of the podcast where I sometimes try and convince you to sign up for the bay curious newsletter at bay curious dot ORG slash newsletter. And today, I'm gonna get an assist from our voicemail. When he's Muhammed land. In oakland. My favorite thing about the bay curious newsletter is the trivia sections, even though a homeless get it wrong because I'm new to the bay area. The trivia is really not easy. So don't beat yourself up too much Muhammed. But thanks for the voicemail. We've got a big water bottle in the mail for you. Now. One more time for the people in the back. Sign up at bay curious dot org slash newsletter. I'm Alan price it cures meeting. Cisco at kick you eating. All right.
Proposition 18: Youth Voting
"From Cutie. Hey Hey everyone. It's Livy Alan price coming to you from Bay curious processed our series on the twelve statewide propositions on the California ballot. Cuties Guy Marzorati is back again this time to help us with proposition eighteen, which would allow some seventeen year olds to vote in some elections on your ballot and reads a little something like this rope eighteen men's the California constitution to permit seventy seven year old vote in primary and special elections. If they turn eighteen by the next general election and be otherwise eligible to vote, we'll get into the INS and outs of this one on today's show stick around. For Support for Bay curious comes from Sierra Nevada brewing company. No matter how people enjoy the outdoors. Sierra Nevada wants to help make sure their voices are heard Sierra Nevada supports protect our winters and it's make your plan to vote campaign. Learn more at Sierra Nevada dot. com. Politics reporter Guy Marzorati has been covering profit teen for K. Q. E. D. Hey? Guy. Hey. So walk us through what we're voting on here. So the very basics is that proposition eighteen would allow seventeen year olds to vote in primary and special elections if they turn eighteen by the general election. So to clarify, this would not have helped to, for example, me who was seventeen during the two, thousand, four, general election and was. Pretty disgruntled that I wasn't able to vote right right and I was in the same boat seventeen in the two thousand, eight election. This does not change that if you're seventeen when the general election is happening, you still won't be able to vote. This is really aimed at the voters who turned eighteen in the window between the primary and the general election. It would let them kind of get a headstart and voting and let them. Vote in the primary. Now, some people may think you know it's only the primary it's not a huge deal. You still get to vote in the general. Why does it even matter that you know young people would be voting in primaries? Well, proponents really make two arguments and the first is question of fairness. They say it's only fair that voters in the general election also gets a have a voice in the primary Elliott Talkie. Of San Francisco was a freshman in college. But for the past few years, she's been advocating for this change for exactly that reason I was cheated out on this election cycle and thousands of others were cheated out to not be able to vote in the twenty twenty primary such. An exciting primary I should add was really disappointing and I'm not the only one thing about all the people who are born between March and November and In the second argument is really around habit building. So supporters say that voting is a habit, the more you do it the more you're likely to do it in the future and that if you let seventeen year olds vote in the primary when they're still in high school, they're getting civics education that education could be enriched by actually participating in the electoral process it's building a habit for the future and make these young Californians. Habitual voters. Okay and there are definitely some people who are not excited about the prospect of seventeen year olds voting at all Let's hear a little bit about what they argue. Right. So when this was put on the ballot by the state legislature, mostly all Democrats supported mostly all Republicans opposed it and antitax groups are also against this measure they say seventeen year olds most of them are still in high school and their captive. Audiences in classrooms who could be swayed by teachers especially on school bonds and school taxes they say, basically, they might spend a whole day only once side of a campaign and while there's eighteen states and the district of Columbia that allowed this changes well, the opponents of prop eighteen say California's different because we directly vote on taxes, school bonds, parcel taxes, and they say that these seventeen year olds are not to be trusted in. Those votes here's Susan Shelley with the Howard Jarvis Taxpayers Association. So of seventeen, year, olds are seeing this in high school and then they're voting in a primary on school taxes school bonds they can be influenced to vote for these taxes without seeing the full argument or having the knowledge of the previous tax increases that may have been passed for the same purpose. Another argument that I read was because our primaries have moved so early. Some of these voters will actually be I, mean closer to sixteen than they are to eighteen when they would be voting in these primaries. Yeah and I think that's another argument made on the No side really about brain development that you know we've set this legal age eighteen and we shouldn't go any farther below it. I haven't seen a whole lot of evidence to suggest that seventeen year old or somehow less likely. To make these decisions than eighteen year olds, there are seventeen year olds who pay taxes after all but that's definitely something you're hearing from the no campaign. Now, it's not often that we actually sea propositions that benefit teenage Californians. How did this one? Make It on the ballot in the first place? This was on the ballot by the state legislature, a two thirds vote and it was largely Democrats who backed it There was only one Democrat who voted against it in the legislature only two Republicans who ended up supporting it. Okay. So even though the legislature has already passed this law because it's basically going to be an amendment to the state constitution, they have to get a public approval for it. That's right and you might be thinking wait doesn't the constitution of the United States kind of set the voting age and it? Really Only, addresses the fact that you can't deny the right to vote to citizens who are eighteen. It really doesn't speak to allowing younger citizens to cast ballots, which is why you've seen a number of states moving this direction and allow seventeen year olds to participate in the primary. At least if they turn eighteen by the general election, is there any idea on what kind of impact this will actually have a voter turnout? Well, we have some idea and that's because of a study by the Public Policy Institute of California which took a look at what they called the so-called prop eighteen voters, and there were two hundred, thousand such. Californians in this boat in the last couple elections, these voters are potentially a significant block especially for primary elections where votes can often be very close decided by a few thousand, a few hundred votes even but another key finding the study found was that the participation of these group of voters is really far from being guaranteed experts and civic engagement say that passing this measure alone is not going to be enough to boost. Turnout rates among young voters I talked with Ron Tariq has about this. She's a sociology professor at UC Santa Cruz I think that propositions eighteen if it passes will be very successful at increasing turn out if it is coupled with civics education at the secondary school level, it creates an opportunity for a secondary school educators to really concentrate more time and resources to developing the curriculum that excites people about voting. So even folks who are backing this change say it's not a panacea. A won't solve all the issues around voting rates in participation of young voters. Alright. K Q d politics, reporter Guy, Marzorati thanks for your help. Thank you. A vote yes. On proposition eighteen says you think seventeen year olds who will be eighteen on general election day should be allowed to vote in primaries. A No vote means you think we should keep things the way they are and only allow people who are eighteen. To cast a vote. That's it on protein the youth voting prop. You can catch up on all of our other pro fest episodes in our podcast feed or online at bay curious dot org slash professed. Bay curious was produced by Katrina. Schwartz. And Olivia Allen Price with helps me entire K. Q. WE NEWSROOM We'll be back tomorrow to talk about a property tax transfers I for one cannot wait see that.
Meet Two MacArthur 'Genius Grant' Scientists
"Story about one of the most exciting phone calls you can receive as a scientist the MacArthur fellowship genius grants yes at least that's the unofficial you're listening to shortwave from NPR here with short reporter. Emily Kwong what do you got for us today. Kwong Ryan's can't be done alone support for this. NPR podcast comes from Sierra Nevada Brewing Company family owned operated and argued over since nineteen eighty proud supporter of independent thought whether that's online over the goals from this period called the last interglacial one hundred twenty five thousand years ago Oh so bp what before the podcast relevant Is there anything interesting that she's learned so far okay well Andrew told me about this one trip to the Seychelles this island nation in the described Andrea as like a CSI investigator of sea level rise but I would also consider her a time traveler to she looked specifically for fossil coral leaves washing upon a shore their work overlaps which is why we're talking about them both today her work suggests that oceans were twenty to thirty feet higher than they are today Whoa yeah and by gathering data from the last time Earth got the swarm the last gone it's terrible joke anyway last interglacial earth was a little warmer than it is now and Saudi something really interesting she wants to know how sea levels rose and ice sheets melted in the ancient past and she painstakingly and she nearly ignored it she thought it was a robo call and instead it was like a half a million dollars exactly that's not how they go for me generally maybe one Indian Ocean where her team found fossil corals at a really high elevation really high and that freaked her out why's that that's because Andrea new interglacial win ice sheets melted and sea levels rose Andrea can offer insights into how it could all go down in our present day okay that that is very cool and seems in that moment that in order for the corals have been that high for the ocean who've risen to that point put them there the Antarctic ice sheet must have been melting at that time that's the it happened in the past pretty cool right yeah well get this she knows another of the fellowship winners who also works in ocean science and like ends and chemical fingerprints if you will we're just looking in the rock record rather than on a crime scene and so we're using those tools to reconstruct what air or in a battle more at Sierra Nevada Dot Com all right kwong scientists show and tell tell me about our geologists Andrea Dutton well we ah call like this but for Andrea they'd asked me if I had ever heard of the award I said Oh yes and that was why I'm speechless. Injury is the single biggest massive ice on earth so when we got this result in the Seychelles I did walk away from the outcrop and I sat down on the beach and I thought six hundred twenty five thousand dollar gift that they can spend however they want when Andrea Dutton a geologist at the University of Wisconsin Madison got the call last month today in the show you talk about two macarthur fellows Andrea Dutton Jupiter who were thinking creatively about our oceans and living out the idea that meaningful wchs fossil corals for clues yes she's like CSI investigator but for the ocean in fact we use a lot of the same tools we're looking at isotopic evidence in the same way in our time so we have some clarity on what the future could look like because Andrea is traveling back in time to gather melted and that was not good news for our future because it means that we may be headed in the same direction meaning the Antarctic icesheet may melt and contribute to sea level rise forty three years old and I'm the Melania director with the Wildlife Conservation Society Melanesia is a region in the Pacific Ocean home to all these island nations myself you know what people are not going to like this because I knew right away meant that in artists have contributed a lot of ice this information from oceans in the ancient past I'm into it I'm nervous about it but I'm into it yeah okay so tell me about the other Macarthur winner tell me about Stacey Stacey Jupiter I'm so it's a nice place just to look out and be inspired by the Marine Environment Fiji is spread across three hundred islands stacey lives in the capital Suva the coral reefs but the environmental factors human activity to for her conservation means not only protecting the land but the people who live on it looks like this Oh okay this is my favorite type of sites communication where she thinks a lot about how to work with locals around conservation okay how does she do well she not only looks at the hard science of what's happening to say the fish Fiji where she's located Papua New Guinea the Solomon Islands just to name a few the water is just beyond her doorstep and I'm trying to get out as much as I can and take continuing their need for sustainable jobs access to natural resources their physical health or mental health sometimes this looks like formal programs other times my three year old son out as well we love to go for puddle and just show him the crabs on the seawall and we'd go look for sea snakes or raise that might scoot off as we go over them this frenzy of fish movement as they release their eggs and that's why it was a disco inspired flash mob this is some solid science outreach right here eggs more fish like all flash they're calling on the government to protect areas where fish come together to reproduce they're kind of like discos okay all along the way like fishing and dams and river sediment and then the Wildlife Conservation Society's Fiji program which Stacey used to run turned the comic back in the river so they have this epic journey they come across all these obstacles on the way and to explain this whole process to kids she created a comic book called the adventures what you're watching is a youtube clip of one hundred twenty five people disco dancing in the streets of Suva organized this flash mob with the motto Moran and his sidekicks now and through the story of them trying to get upstream defined his home they encounter all of the different hazards of human impact so fun that's not all Stacey has done she's commissioned a comic book why is she having so much fun during science I did not have this much fun well it's because you didn't help commission book into a puppet show routed to schools and kids loved it I was onboard until puppets got involved you would love this matty of Joe Jacobi he's a little bit precocious he gets lost from the rest of his school and he ends up having to go back upstream with this kind of crazy inventor scientists crab the is those kids when they grow up they're the ones who will be looking after the place because they they own the land and they have the rights to say whether or not they're going to in the moment right after the DOJ Gobi puppet encounters Barracuda are you sure it's just not them screaming because there's nobody knows the mysteries of children all the kids were given river-monitoring kits afterwards with the idea of encouraging there sleep this is pretty amazing like the level of creativity here and engagement and fun I am all for this sands puppets yeah over the phone actually works with another macarthur fellow in this cohort Jerry Metro Rica at Harvard he interprets her data about corals so that it can that I really wanted to be more of a generalist and able to look across disciplines across different habitats and I think that and that's what's needed stacy's to tackle these seemingly intractable global problems stacey and Andrea they work on opposite sides of the world but they know each other and Andrea commercialisation and your field and try to stay within one field and say you are the expert on this one particular topic but for myself I always didn't rebelled against in before our interview Stacy said to me look I'm trained in science but what moves people is stories each creativity is a big part of how she approaches virtue of the land one day as adults indigenous people have tenure over about eighty seven to ninety eight percent of all of the land in Melanesia until it re tomorrow this is NPR shortwave. We'll see you tomorrow her work throughout my career always felt like I was going through school there was always pressure to try to narrow the scope of Arthur money to create a scholarship fund some kind for the next generation of scientists then is very beautiful thank you and we're not doing good bye no you could say NPR shortwave Emmett Science. At least that's how Andrea are geologist in Wisconsin season. We can't do this job alone science is a team sport and we taking this approach that's kind of interdisciplinary or transdisciplinary it inspires creativity because you're getting this diversity of perspectives and viewpoints be baked into global climate models and projections for what will happen with ice sheets and you know what this made me realize what is it make you realize that it's a small Louis their line for logging or mining activities or whether they'll they'll keep it protected for themselves in their next generation you know okay so is a science communication nerd series all world after all in the sciences no actually made me realize that you need a lot of disciplines right putting their heads together to answer the big questions especially when it comes to need to have all these different disciplines and perspectives to get to the answer is that we are seeking both Stacey Andrea said. They're thinking about using part of their a comic book about a Cute Little Fish Call Joe Jacobi go these are these fish they're born in rivers they migrate to the ocean and spawned mm-hmm so every year the Macarthur Foundation quick disclosure
Live From The HIBT Summit: Jeni Britton Bauer of Jeni's Splendid Ice Creams
"So before we start the show I wanna tell you about to live episodes. I'll be recording in just a few weeks and how you can come see them in person. If you are a fan of ninety s alternative music you will not want to miss my live conversation with the founders of sub pop the legendary recording label behind bands like Nirvana soundgarden. The Shins and many many others that show is happening on March twenty sixth in Seattle at Benaroya Hall. And then the very next night. March twenty seventh. I'll be in San Francisco interviewing. Ken Grossman founder of one of the biggest craft beer makers in America Sierra Nevada brewing company. That's happening at the Sydney Goldstein Theater in San Francisco. Now if you haven't been to a live recording of the show they are Super Fun. Come on down. Meet your fellow listeners. Be a part of the show. Laugh cry grab some how I built this swag and come say hi to me and the team so I really hope to see you in either or maybe both San Francisco and Seattle March Twenty sixth and twenty seventh for tickets visit. Npr PRESENTS DOT Org. Hey everyone so today. We've got another one of my conversations from the how I built this summit. That happened last October in San Francisco. Jedi Britain Bauer has spent the past eight years perfecting her signature line of ice cream flavors which include fluffer nutter pie goat cheese and Cherry and my personal favorites bramble very crisp and biscuits and peaches and these are just a few of the unusual flavors. You'll find Jenny. Splendid ice creams all began at a Columbus Ohio. Farmers Market Back in two thousand two today. Jenny's is a staple at whole foods and there are nearly forty scoop shops across the United States in my life conversation onstage. I asked Jenny about staying true to herself. And how her ice cream can be that amazingly good without any egg yolks. I WanNa talk to you about a word. That comes up a lot and I have really mixed feelings about this word and I and I hope some of you do too which is authenticity. We hear this word a lot. Be Authentic Bureau authentic self your true self and one of the really cool things about your story that are members that in the early days when you had your first version of. What would become Jenny? Splendid later on you used to wear like torn jeans and you had green and purple hair and at a certain point you realize that actually wasn't working that something about your look and the aesthetic of what you were selling wasn't right and you decided to change. You took the diet of your hair. You started wearing all white. You sort of looked like a like a pharmacist. And your ice cream shop here. It became kind of reflected that clean aesthetic. And I'm wondering I mean you know you could say well Jenny. You know you weren't being your authentic self at that time. But of course I absolutely was it absolutely was I realized that I was communicating through what I was wearing and it was it was. It was goof you restore outfits. I mean. They're really cute. I had pink hair for a long time but I wasn't conveying. That sort of who I think I felt like on the inside honestly and and what. I thought that I wanted from my ice cream maker. You know the other thing was that it scream my first day scream shop. I thought that I could be this ice cream artiste and like everybody would be so excited about whatever. I was doing today that they would. Just you know. Come down and figure and stand in line and you know what's the. Great Jenny have today and I was really thinking more like an artist or a wannabe artist. So I quit art school to make ice cream then and when I got to Jenny's in two thousand into when I open Jenny's I I took all emphasis off of me on purpose. I had learned the lesson that no one comes to a business for whatever I'm making today. I don't go to businesses for that. I go to a business for what I had the last time I was there. Not for some new thing. I might change my mind when I get there. And so once I learned that I knew that I had to create this signature line that everybody knew about. And that was like credible in the middle of the night and you had to have it the next day and then I could play around with other stuff and then those could move onto the signature list if they were good enough if people loved them enough and so that was part of that. Take the emphasis off me. Ron Customers still add my passion to this but not make it about me anymore. Make it about other people and I knew what people love because they knew what they loved it. Scream when Miami. I shop but I didn't always have that so that constant disappointment is not a very good way to run a business. Do you do sort of agree with me? This idea of authenticity is being complicated. Because you know we get is be your yourself your authentic self and not. All of us know how to do that or what that actually means. Yeah it is. It's a complex thing right now especially when you talk about companies and brands building authenticity and starting with into though. Because what does that actually mean? That's something that you can't make you have to do. And it takes a long time and I think that so many times for me anyway often to city. It's a trust for yourself. And it's not trusting that you'll never make mistakes as trusting that you will but you'll get yourself out of trouble and I think the authenticity almost from that place of trust for yourself. You know because the people in the company that we find the most authentic are the ones that are making mistakes sometimes or that are trying things that are pushing themselves so I want to own a sort of a shift gears. A little bit and ask you about perfectionism because for those who know about your company in about you. You're a perfectionist. I mean you obsess over ice cream. In a way that few people obsess over any products right. I mean we start with what the cows eat and that every year. Our ice cream recipes change. I mean right. Now we're talking about extended hold times for pasteurization and how that will impact stability. We don't use stabilizes modifiers corn Syrup high-fructose Corn Zip and a whole bunch of other ingredients. That are very typical and ice cream or even a yolks. But we figured out that that that there's various ways to make milk proteins. Act that way and it's really fun and it's extremely delicious but it's all still an experiment and it's a big challenge. I think it's one of the reasons that twenty four years in. I'm still extremely excited about what we can do this year. And what we're going to try this year is going to impact what we're GONNA DO. Next year started to interrupt. I can get like really excited about this. I know me too cheap because I've noticed that there are no egg yolks. Oh the sort of I guess unless you want it to be unless you want there to be lake an Eggnog or something like that but I mean even like the peaches you buy for the Peach Cobbler or the cherries you use for the goat cheese you source it in an obsessive way. The cows are raised on well. And we're patient so for me. I always serve the people and so it starts building a relationship with a with a grower or producer and then we can work out quality together because we know that that's the way I mean. That's how you get the best stuff so sometimes it can take years to figure out how you know which. Which kind of strawberries grow in Ohio? And how can we extend that season by a few weeks so we have time to process them all as they come in? There's all sorts of cool stuff that you can do. But you really have to have a good relationship with your farmers and growers and your producers like Whiskey. You know there's too much alcohol and the whiskey. We couldn't add enough to ice cream. You know and still abide by the law. So we work with our whiskey distiller to create a lower alcohol whisky so we can add a Lotta whiskey to those kinds of things. All are based on relationships. I mean but with that level of obsessive nece right. You're paying a premium for really high quality products. Also means that your ice cream's more expensive pine of Jennings's expensive compared to pine another brand right. It's a very dense. There's a lot of ice cream. It's packed in there. That's really high quality stuff I mean. Presumably you your company can make a lot more money. If the pints were two dollars cheaper Yeah but I think that for us. That passionate isn't growing as a community. That sort of community spirited business and making something truly beautiful that we're all really proud of I mean in our stores. We have thirty nine stores. And we have the Pete. The summer we had eighteen hundred team members in the stores. And I think it's because mostly because those people who work in our stores are so proud of what we do that over the counter. It's of a natural naturally. Good at Service. Because they're just proud of all of these back details that we will never probably be able to convey all of them over the counter but they know that like it's that detail and the and the intention behind it that everyone feels and it's this crazy magic I mean do you think that there is a an argument to be made that you should pursue perfection that you should pursue an uncompromising just absolutely no cutting corners at all. I mean or it's like having a garden I mean sometimes you're GonNa have a very lush beautiful area and these going to get a little bit Withered hopefully nothing dies. But that's what you're doing. You're moving your resources around me. Ultimately we only have a limited amount of resources that we get to do this with and so you're constantly shifting. Yeah I mean you are in an entered a crowded space lotte ice cream makers a lot of people here working on baby clothes and different products. Where there's you know. There's a lot of competition I mean. How do you really breakthrough in a in a crowded market time? I mean it's one person at a time. It's all on street level. It's time and that starts to build sort of mentality of business because you get to create. I didn't know how to make ice cream. I know now when we were younger. And let's say we have taken a whole bunch of money early and I don't think anybody would have given it to a but let's just say we have done that. I wouldn't have had the time to work out these details and the things that I now know about ice cream. I need it all this time. I spent at least eight years boots on the ground just making ice cream and serving it before ever started growing and that time is everything for me because I learned all of that the art. I didn't study Acecomm Chemistry and honestly I failed every class I took and Matt Ice Cream is math so I had to learn all that stuff and for us. That's that's what's worked and I think in ice cream when we look at what's happening in American ice cream for the last one hundred years there was like a new sort of great American ice cream concept every like ten years and then it kind of stopped at Ben and Jerry's I mean there's been a couple of other things that sort of were okay but not great and now we're in another ice cream moment and I think it's because we've really devoted this lake time to to building it into a real. I mean a community that means something and it doesn't just mean something on paper. It feels a certain way and I think that like Ben and Jerry's. I think that they did that it was. It was a moment in American history. Every industry and every business is so different. But I just don't think that you can just create an ice cream shop and just bounce under the market. It's just too complex of of an industry and we've seen so many come and go over the years. It's very hard. Dairy is a complex industry. Of course we always think everybody else's businesses are so much easier than ours. I'm like I'm not doing dairy again. It's been amazing and it's been a joy and I'm an absolute evangelist for dairy farmers. I'm curious to get your your take on growth right because we we sort of. Were Fed this mantra? That growth is good and growth is important but there are also consequences when it comes to growth and challenges so for a company like yours. It means you've got a source more stuff. It means you got to build more shops. It could mean that you lose control the quality as you have more stores and more shops I think most of your sales are still online and in stores right. Beat people buying pints at whole foods and other places rather than the scoop shops. But I mean. How important is explosive? Growth I mean. Do you want to be like Baskin Robbins? I mean I love growing so much. I like the challenge of of business and I love that. I don't think that my company would ever grow just because of growth. I don't think anyone in our company is motivated by that. I think it's been really fun to grow where people are buying our ice cream and then be able to offer them servicemen various service driven as a person. It's very personal to me. And so being able to open shops this really important to me in places even when we're selling a lot of ice cream in whole foods for instance to be able to open shop in that community where we know people know about us and loves them then. We can offer that sort of service in that moment and do that. Ice Cream is a really lovely moment. A place that you can get to know somebody else better and it's just a special thing. So Gosh I have so many thoughts on this because I think that you can get better as you grow and that's been my experience when we were really small and there's this sort of glow around the sort of mom and pop sort of thing. I think especially in ice cream but when we were small we were. We were really limited by what we could buy. I mean we had to do an ice cream makes you couldn't get a company to help us. We couldn't get the dairy that we wanted to. We couldn't get the milk that we we wanted and we knew we were surrounded by these farms. We couldn't get them outside of the system co mingled with other milk. Even our strawberry grower now gross fields for us. And he's got his brother involved in the other guy down the street you know it was like what flats at a time or whatever and so we really couldn't do much planning and then sometimes you wouldn't have enough or whatever so you actually like up to this point we've gotten so much better as we've grown in terms of ice cream quality indefinitely in terms of service and we have so much more to do and it takes resources to do it as you know. The theme of the summit this year is kindness and clever. I love that so much and I know that there's been many examples of that on your journey. Can you share just just one example of of somebody who is kind or collaborative or just? Who helped you when you started and how that enabled you to get here. I don't know how many of you are from smaller cities like me. I'm from Columbus Ohio Columbus Ohio. Yeah I love I love Columbus very much and my whole story is about asking for help my whole story. I mean I started with. I always say no research from nothing. We all have our brain baron buds and that's literally like how we started the company But that community came out. I think once I started to prove myself so it wasn't immediate but once I started to prove that I was in it and that I would care it and that I was going to do this and it was going to be for a long time. The community came out in a big way. And at that point you know it becomes this love fest like now. I'm super committed. I want to get back to the community. They're supporting me. And I in a way love these sort of smaller cities and other cities as well where the whole city can kind of rally around a few businesses and companies that they love whereas sometimes you get lost in a bigger size other advantages of being in a big city with a with a new company that that has been amazing. And I just put that credit back on Columbus and I love it to this day and we'll never leave for that reason. I mean I travel a lot but I always come back home because that's my place on. Earth Jeni Bauer founder of Ginny. Thank you thank you. That's Jenny. Britain Bauer founder of Jenny. Splendid Ice Creams Ginny. Join me live on stage at the how I built this summit which happened in October at Yearbook Buena Center for the Arts and San Francisco will have more of my conversations from the summit over the next few weeks. Keep CHECKING FOR UPDATES. Thanks TO CANDICE LAMB. Who Produce this episode and Ramtane Air Blue? Who wrote the Music Guy? Roz and listening to how I built this this is NPR.
Meet Charley Parkhurst: The Gold Rushs Fearless, Gender Non-Conforming Stagecoach Driver
"I'm living Allen price. This is bay curious. I want you to come with me for a few minutes on a journey to the wild west. It's the eighteen fifties. And you are a gold prospector you left your Ma and PA back in your hometown to strike it rich out west. Now, you're in a mining outpost at the base of the Sierra surrounded by nothing. But rocks brush and treasure hungry. And this week, you got lucky your bags are filled with gold nuggets. But not everyone has been so lucky and desperation makes people do crazy things you'd better get your gold somewhere safe and fast. So here you are waiting on the stage coach driver and here he comes. The driver sits atop his coach working has long. Black snake whip his six horses. Gallop at a fine pace a shotgun. Next lips in the sun. It's not just for grizzlies. It's for bandits. After all, he's not just bringing letters from home, but money, and when the driver leaves he'll be taking your gold nuggets with him back to the volts of San Francisco. That's just how things move out here in the west. This stagecoach driver goes by Charley Parkhurst, and Charlie is one of the best and Charlie is also the topic of today's episode. Support for bay curious comes from Sierra Nevada brewing company, family owned operated and argued over since nineteen eighty reminding listeners to think for themselves but drink with others Sierra, Nevada dot com. Charlie Parker was one of the most famous stagecoach drivers in all of the west, and he ran many routes right here in the bay area. Our listener Betsy in Santa Clara learn about Charlie while reading a historical fiction novel and wrote debate curious looking for the true story, Charley Parkhurst was a legend back in the day. And he was gender. Non conforming reporter just check us here to drive us through. This one stage drivers were seen as the masculine ideal in the old west. It was a profession demanding lots of skill physicality, endurance and courage now Charlie left behind few documents. And some of the stories we do have contradict each other. But here's what we know. Charlie was a man of slight build who chewed tobacco drank, whiskey and swore often his voice was described as a whiskey tenor. He wore beated, riding gloves and used his whip with horses and to stay out of brawls. He was tough. And you look even tougher after he was half blinded. When a horse kicked him in the face. It was probably scared by a snake? That's how he got name one eyed Charly some knew the story of his crossing a crumbling bridge during a store. Others only cared about his ability to keep the bandits away from their goods. But none of Charlie's peers knew about his history that Charlie was assigned female at birth. In popular history. We get a sense that Charlie was born in New Hampshire in eighteen twelve. This is Rachel Reinhardt director of the UC Berkeley history social science project, there are conflicting accounts, but bitches from the time say Parkhurst spent their early years in an orphanage and then ran away to find work in stables and then gain skills during that time as a horse handler. That's around when Parkhurst began wearing boys clothes and living life as a man, we don't know what gender pronoun Charlie would prefer. But for this story, we're going to use they or him for Charlie because they is a wonderful non binary pronoun that can be used today to Mark people who are sort of refusing renouncing the gender binary. But I think can also be used for people in the past as a kind of marker of undecided ability. This is Don rooms Berg a historian and chair of women and gender studies at. Noma state university. I think that if you're going to pick one wrong, gender, pronoun, Charlie. It would be she because for as much of Charlie's life. That Charlie was an active agent in asserting a gendered self. He was a he and Charlie would have all kinds of motivations to live life. As a man women were given very few economic opportunities in mid nineteenth, century, California. They could be seamstresses or laundry says or teachers or sex workers, essentially, they also couldn't vote and Charlie was registered to vote. Fifty years before women got suffrage and people who persistently had erotic or romantic ties to someone of the same. Sex would have been marginalized for that. We'll talk about Charlie's love life later. So there's all sorts of reasons beyond perhaps a true expression of one's gender self that someone like Parkhurst might choose to live as a man eventually Charlie started working as a stage coach driver on the east coast. Intil the gold rush brought them out west. Charlie ran stretches of road, all around California. Even working for Wells Fargo at one point money box full of gold and coach full of passengers Charlie would drive horses across rough terrain where bandits lay in wait, you're out on the open road. And you're responsible for your passengers and your freight once Charlie was stopped by a gang of highway robbers wearing masks may not have long underwear. They put a gun to Charlie's head and threatened the passengers, but Charlie's gun was out of reach. They were forced to give the bandits the money bucks this time. But Charlie told them if it happens again, it'll be. After that, Charlie was always prepared. The next time. Try was stopped by a desperado Charlie shut in dead. For a long time. He was quote, unquote, the boss of the road. But was living life out on the open road lonely. Passengers were probably around. But it was said that Charlie often worked alone doing double duty as both the driver and the lookout and in regards to love it's hard to say there was this one time when a poor widow was about to lose her house and Charlie bought the house to give it back to her. Some speculated that Charlie did it for the widow's daughter who was pretty, but Charlie left that town soon after Charlie eventually retired from stagecoach driving spending their later years as a farmer and lumbermen at the very end. It wasn't bandits or a gunfight that killed Charlie, but cancer of the tongue. Charlie died at the age of sixty seven that was on the public found out that Charlie was assigned female at birth. And it became a national news story across the country papers printed stories that may. Be seen as insensitive today with headlines that erase Charlie's. Experience living is a man thirty years in disguise, the female stage driver, a queer woman when trends men's gender histories are revealed for some reason, the local communities tend to be quite sympathetic to that person who was a member of their community in their small town who a new right? It's only win national newspapers pick that story up that they start to be about degeneracy and masquerading and fooling in disguising and path Allah g. Over the years. Charlie story has been told in more obscure historical texts. But now trying will be getting a more permanent place in the history books, the verification act passed in two thousand eleven became law in two thousand twelve and in basically ensures that the roles and contributions of LGBT Americans and people with disabilities being -cluded in K twelve history education, although terms like trans didn't exist during Charlie's time Rome's. Berg says that Charlie's life is a part of trans history and Rome's Berg has fought to get Charlie into lesson plans. It's important that we see LGBT lives in the past. So that we understand that queer and trans is not something that simply appears after stonewall, for example. But it's something that's been around in some form everywhere for always roams. Brooke says learning about Chow. Arleen classes is a step in the right direction. Charlie story opens us up to thinking more deeply about gender in the present it acknowledges that people like Charlie aren't sensational. News stories, they are part of our history. And this is just one of many great trance stories. Thanks to our question. Asker Betsy and reporter Jessica plot. Check for her work on that story. We rented up a list of other notable LGBTQ people in history in the web version of this story had to bake your orc and check it out bay curious produced by Ryan Levy, Jessica plot. Check any Olivia Allen price. We get engineering support from pollen core, Katie McMoran, and rob Speight our music designer is Suzy Rocco. Our copy editor is Pat Yalon. Additional support comes from Julie Kane Carli Severn, David we're Ethan Lindsey and Holly Kernan big curious is made in San Francisco at K Q E D V Allen price. Oh.
Logging 'The Lungs' of North America
"Only Kwong what do you got for us today. Well I have story about the largest intact temperate rainforest in the world and guess where it is you're listening to shortwave from NPR Maddie's Here with our very own shortwave reporter and sometimes host people from hacking talking about old growth forest some of the most ancient trees in America four hundred five hundred even eight hundred plus years old and it's here that Tony and his experiences reflections on the world around I really love it. Richard Nelson is a legend in Southeast Alaska he's a scientist and a yellow cedar spruce trees some of them are enormous skyscrapers whitest cars we're not talking exactly about trees you can hug you don't know how long my arms support for this NPR podcast comes from Sierra Nevada Brewing Company family owned operated and argued over since nineteen eighty proud supporter of independence Tangus a lot of people are talking about it right now because last week the trump administration announced it intends to open access for logging and road construction there get far away from the clatter racket of life in town and Savor the quiet and tranquility makes me think of lines from a classic Robert Service Palm as I play you a clip from his show I want you to imagine this place three thousand miles from where we are in Washington DC well it's a perfect time here in the middle of summer too W in the Tonga's national forest that's the largest national forest in America the end the setting for a classic Alaskan Radio Show encounters dodd whether that's online over the air or in a bottle more at Sierra Nevada dot com okay so we're talking about the Tonga's national forest and this has implications far beyond Alaska Okay so today on the show we talk about the role of the tongue national forests and how a policy change could impact let's see anything so runs right from the beach fringe to top of the mountains we have here on oil is massive nearly seventeen million green off the beach and so it definitely shapes the community here I have to imagine it has like a pretty big role in the economy too acres and walking through it Mattie it's like being in a fantasy novel I must say if you can imagine you have hemlock and Red Cedar the logging industry his family operated a tugboat that helped load massive trees onto ships for export to China Japan and other stories that have been storing carbon for centuries the spell of the Yukon where he writes it's the green we gotta see reading poetry up Yonder poetry silence I brought you Richard Nelson it's the it counters. This is the entrance Richard Nelson for encounters program of observations town. That's true and Tony is the mayor he knows the Tonga's well because he lives in it a lot of people say the forest here is almost impenetrable aid so thick and you can family have hunted and fished for generations Tony is a member of the Haida tribe and the Tonga's is their indigenous land implies that the elements of the land critical for something else to suck and carbon out of the atmosphere do you know about the carbon cycle I've heard of her it's that cycle where trees draw carbon dioxide where do you want to start to start with Anthony Christianson okay people call him Tony He was born in Heidelberg Alaska in Prince of Wales Island the population there is just shy of four hundred around me because I've lived on deer meat and berries and Ishmael life it's the main staple might come in my family dinner last night was fried saw kind were logged in a lot of timber and making money at it happened in Sitka to where I used to live trees have long been economically important to the region but there of old growth forest open for logging right okay so this is obviously a very complicated situation but from strictly environmental perspective is that bad hands are off limits to most development which certainly does not benefit the thirty two island communities that are located there it's Buddhi that fills me with wonder it's a stillness that fills me with peace but often absolutely you know he grew up on the deck of a fishing boat the congress is a huge spawning site for wild salmon on the west coast and as a teenager in the nineteen nineties Tony found work across the but that's a massive we other massive treason logging old growth and this is peak tower Prince of Wales was dotted exempt Alaska from something called the road less rule what's that all the road rule has been kicking around since the Clinton administration it bans road-building and logs the atmosphere and acting as the planet's lungs so you can imagine why Dominic was pretty distraught when news broke last week that the US Forest Service wants is really critical when we think about you know how much excess carbon is in the atmosphere so from a global warming perspective this is pretty important exactly we need rose rainforest to survive that's Dominic Della Sala chief scientists for the Geos Institute in Oregon and the trees will do fine without us but they're pulling that carbon dioxide down would undoubtedly release carbon into the atmosphere and how is that well one way he measures what's lost is through something called the leaky bucket metaphor okay out of the atmosphere and lock it away for centuries stored in their leaves and stems branches and roots and that natural process of carbon sequestration and trees going back you've punched so many holes in that bucket you've lost most of the carbon in the original forest bucket and those holes are so big from the logging in service said it preferred the most extreme option in changing the road this rule to end all road-building restrictions in the Tonga's it makes one hundred sixty five thousand acres the picture the forest as big bucket of water with holes in it done as long as waters falling into the bucket at the same rate as it's leaking out there's no net loss logging camps in this time so we'll just a lot of companies a lot of people working in the industry and money was flowing those timber corporation it's okay but if you cut down that forest all of a sudden you have punched really big holes in the bucket so even though the forest is or in Heidelberg we spoke with earlier yeah he cares to he used to earn a living through the logging industry as a young man but one day while he was out on a skiff a little boat ever really capture the amount of carbon that was in the original forest bucket so when a tree is cut down in a forest dominic definitely cares and remember Tony the mayor on designated areas but the forest service at the request of Alaskan leadership like Senator Lisa Murkowski so you know I always have to talk about the tongue when we're you win by his traditional hunting grounds cruising the channel he looked across the landscape in you know what he saw what clearcut logging huge swaths of land without that water right same with carbon so as long as the forest can capture the same amount of carbon as is being lost through tree death and decomposition even longing replaces how big were these logs that you were pulling onto the tugboat timber is used when getting all you're talking five six feet across really hard to have an economy when everything is off limits to you more axes and the trump administration appears to be on board with that last week the is enough and I felt like I had lost something or somebody that was pretty special to me at that moment and it's one of the reasons he changed cost of the environment which they also depend on so what happens now so the forest service they've put out this paper a draft environmental impact is a shadow of what it used to be in the late twentieth century and relaxing the road list rule will likely create jobs but it would also do
Proposition 15: Commercial Property Tax
"Cutie. Happy Friday everyone, and welcome to day two of Bay. Curious professed we're going through the twelve statewide propositions on the ballot. That's one prop per episode. I'm Lavalin price let's get to it. Today we'll take on the contentious proposition fifteen, which would raise the property tax assessments on many commercial properties around the state local governments and school boards. Love this one they see dollar signs but businesses not so key. Here's the title of the prop as you'll see it on your ballot. Proposition fifteen increases funding for public schools, community colleges, and local government services by changing tax assessment of commercial and industrial property billions of dollars are on the line. With this one we'll get into who pay and where the money goes today on the show it's proposition fifteen commercial property tax. Break. Support for Bay curious comes from Sierra Nevada brewing company. No matter how people enjoy the outdoors Sierra Nevada wants to help make sure their voices are heard Sierra Nevada supports protect our winters and it's make your plan to vote campaign learn more at Sierra Nevada dot com. Before we can unpack proposition fifteen. We first need to understand how commercial and Industrial Property Tax in California works now and to do that, we have to venture back forty two years Yeah well, you have to go back to nineteen, seventy, seven, seventy, eight via this is. Politics and government editor Scott Shafer back then Jimmy Carter was president Jerry Brown was governor the first time and the inflation rate was high like really high inflation's hit the standard of living particularly hard. And soaring property taxes have been a major factor. And at that time. Property taxes were based on the value of your house and so people who were having living on fixed incomes like senior citizens we're having a hard time paying their property taxes and some of them are actually losing their homes and so this created a movement. I am Barbara Eden. The American tax rate doubt Mova for the United States? I don't know if you ever saw the movie network. With Peter Finch, he plays this Anchorman Howard Beale and the I'm sure you've seen this clip where he throws open the window of his apartment and he screams out I. I'm not gonNA take this anymore. Well, that's what was happening in California about property taxes in the late nineteen seventies. Proposition thirteen gets placed on the California ballot and does a few six it taxes properties based on their nineteen, seventy six values or their purchase price. If the home was bought after nineteen, seventy eight, then it says, Hey, homeowners, we're not going to raise your property tax assessment any more than two percent each year even if your home appreciates by five percent year over year, we're GONNA pretend it was only two percent or less for tax purposes and lastly prop thirteen says property tax can be no more than one percent of a home's value. and. The purpose of this amendment is to reduce the amount of money that government takes taxes because we think the only way you can cut spending as to not give them the money in the first place proposition thirteen is passed into law by a huge margin proposition thirteen gauze what may be a record voter turnout. So. If you've owned property for you know since the nineteen seventies, your property tax bill has gone up a lot more slowly than others who bought the property since then. A two thousand nine study found that sense it went into effect. Prop thirteen has reduced taxes in the state by about five hundred and twenty, eight, billion dollars in aggregate. That's good news for property owners right. But it's not good news for local governments and school districts whose budgets depend on those property taxes. Are It's got. So if prop thirteen was originally written with homeowners in mind, how did all these commercial property's end up benefiting since eighteen fifty? All property in California was taxed the same way whether it was residential property or commercial property or agriculture property prop thirteen. It didn't change. It didn't divide up different kinds of property. It just changed the the way. They were taxed. Okay. So we get to this point where we're at today where I know there's some pretty big notable companies that have gotten away with paying relatively small tax bills tell us about them. There are some companies that are particularly benefiting from that tax structure. One of them is Disneyland it's taxes being based on one thousand seventy-five property values in Anaheim. One study showed that in two thousand four. So it's a little ways back, but you get the idea. Disneyland. was paying five cents per square foot in taxes. Now, if the land was reassessed, they would pay a whole lot more than that. Orange County right here in the bay area Intel has a plot of land in the heart of Silicon Valley and it. Has a current value of about two dollars and fifty cents per square foot. That's what the property is valued at. Well, professional office center right across the street was assessed recently at one hundred, twenty, six dollars per square foot. So fifty times more with they're paying property tax on while Intel is paying on just a tiny fraction of that. So that's the inequity. That some people see and that they think prop fifteen will address. Okay. So that's how everything is working right now, how would prop fifteen? which is what we're voting on this year change things. Okay. So the phrase that's used is it would create a split role right now there's one role for property taxes, commercial property, and residential all treated. The same prop fifteen would create a split role would split off commercial property and instead of taxing it based on what the owners paid for it, it would be reassessed and it would be. Taxed based on current market value, which is going to be a lot higher especially if that property has been owned for a long time and so that would generate between six and a half and eleven and a half billion dollars a year that would go back to the counties. So it would go sixty percent of that would go to local governments for local services and forty percent of it would go to school districts and community colleges to spend as they see, fit. And what's the rollout time Limi- would it be like the day after the elections and unle-. Everyone's tax bill goes up. No not at all. So it would begin to be phased in in twenty twenty two because it's GonNa take some time for counties to kind of ramp up for this, they have to hire more assessors they have to decide how to prioritize properties and then it will be fully phased in. By twenty, twenty five and so is this gonNA. Hit Commercial and industrial properties uniformly whether you're sort of small business or someone like Intel no I. Mean. First of all the way the law is written if you're properties worth less three million or less, it's not going to be affected at all but here's the caveat if you own, let's say you own four pieces of property that are worth two, million dollars each. That's eight million dollars, and so then those properties would be reassessed. They look at what is the total holding of the the person who owns it not just any single property but what's the total that they own and if it's above three million, then it would. It would, in fact, trigger a reassessment and what about agriculture? Agricultural Land is exempted from from the so just as residential property is a property is but you know this is opposed by the farm bureau and it's opposed by a lot of agroup S- because they feel that although the land itself may not be reassessed that things like apple trees or grapes or Haman trees. Improvements that they make to the property that that could trigger a reassessment so they don't quite believe. That in fact, farms and ranchers will be held harmless Scott I know one big question that people will have is, how will these changes impact homeowners? Well, that's a good question and the answer is it doesn't affect homeowners at all. Those rules for property taxes will be exactly the same as they are now. So that won't change at all. All right. Let's now get into who is supporting profit teen and why well, this measure was put on the ballot by unions organized labor in particular the Teacher's Union, they've put a lot of money into this and part of the reason is that. Prop thirteen back in again forty two years ago really reduce the amount of money that was going to schools because property tax money goes to school districts and so teachers unions feel that because of you know large class sizes inability to hire teachers because of the cost of living in California that all these things mean that that this infusion of money that would come from prop fifteen would really be good for for schools you know and it's it's also being. Endorsed by a long list of prominent Democrats including Governor Gavin newsom who endorser recently. Joe Biden. Kamala Harris Bernie Sanders has weighed in he supports it a number of local mayors like London breed and libby chef, and there's some sort of advocacy groups like the Sierra Club and the ACLU that also endorse prop fifteen who is opposing the perhaps so far well, not surprisingly it's It's business groups the Chamber of Commerce Black and Hispanic Chambers of Commerce sub the Republican. Party And of course, they're saying look we're in the middle of a recession. It's hard enough to do business in. California. Already with regulation and other kinds of taxes and now you WANNA raise taxes on businesses at at a time when. So many businesses are just struggling to keep the doors open So you know that that's an argument that they're making now because of the economic situation now, if it'd be interesting to know we will never know but you know what would their argument be if the pandemic hadn't happened and the economy was still roaring? But as it turns out, it's a pretty good argument for some voters given that you know the economy is in fact struggling. I don't think people will be surprised but because there is so much money on the line here that also means that this is shaping up to be one of the most expensive props that will be voting on this year. Tell us a little bit about the campaign finance and how that says shaken out so far. So as of late September early October, the Yes side has raised a little bit more money forty, million, roughly thirty million for the No side. So they're pretty evenly funded. The thing is it's hard to break through to voters in this climate where we've got so much focus on the presidential election, the pandemic, the Supreme Court wildfires, and so what we've seen actually in some recent polling is that there's an unusually high level of undecided voters because they they don't know much about these ballot measures because it it just don't. Time in the day really to learn about so many things especially when you're people you focused on and preoccupied with other things. Yeah. There's a lot to be focused way too much. Well, skullshaver. Thank you so much for stopping by really appreciate you walking us through this one. Yeah, always happy to talk to you. Vote Yes. On proposition fifteen says barring some exemptions you commercial and industrial properties taxed according to their current market value rather than their original purchase price. Novotna means things stay the same and properties should continue to be taxed based on their purchase price with annual increases equal to the rate of inflation or two percent whichever is lower. We'll be back on. Monday with our episode on proposition sixteen, which is about affirmative action in the state of curious fast is produced by Katrina. Schwarz wraps bait and me Olivia Allen Price with a big assist. From the whole cake you d newsroom you can find more of their in depth coverage at k. q. e. d. dot org, Slash Elections Bay curious made it member supported Eighty in San Francisco, if you're finding crops helpful, do us a solid and share it with a friend thanks so much.
Psychedelic bedroom pop musician Cuco
"Support for this podcast and the following message come from neon presenting loose and electrifying psychological thriller starring oscar winner octavia spencer. Naomi watts tim roth and kelvin harrison junior now playing in select markets additional markets throughout august bullseye with jesse thorn the production of maximum fun dot org and is distributed by n._p._r. It's bullseye here at bull's eye we do regular segment called the song that changed my life so chance to talk with some of our favorite musical artists about the tunes that made them who they are today and this week. It's it's the musician cuco. Cuco is a twenty one year old from hawthorne california not that far from where we are here in los angeles he. He got his start making music in his bedroom. He combines dreamy sense catchy hooks and a bit of jazz trumpet to create a sleepy psychedelic vibe up his debut. Album pammy came out recently. Here's the song feelings uh-huh <music> usually when we ask the question what song changed your life. We think we're going to get a song from back. In the day like <hes>. The beatles are jackie wilson or something but cuco got a little more modern on us. He picked a song from tame impala album loaner loaner ism. It was released all the way back in two thousand twelve. Here's gluco i was thirteen when i first heard physically illegal baggers uh i remember the first time i heard feels like really go backwards. I had pandora the second shuffle. I forgot what radio station i was listening to but yeah dad's song came up and then that's when i think it is found colonialism and it was like pretty recently come out and but that song just like stood out to me the most because it made me it's like completely like wiped out of my body and i was just like whoa but yeah two years later down like spotify and still was like on the free on like listening like shuffle but the hours going through a lot you know kind of like not nine was my husband like a sophomore high school not knowing what i was doing like expelling all my classes and the launer ism album kind of like i had to have a lot of friends either so title honor is almost like like sam yeah rediscovering the hall album again during in that time which is kind of like oh man. This is actually one of the best albums like that's a that's ever been made. Put the album is just like so crazy. Even the songs like nothing that can happen has control mind mischief aw and those is one day when i was just like walking by school and it just hit me more than anything. It got me through through like so much more than anything any any other song has go to get me through. I was going to do like a break. Rallying kyle's high school think thanks bye-bye but regardless like whatever i felt then it was still valid to me and i are also doing pretty bad in school and like kind of like in that clueless i was very present and in loner is in humans. The name you know loaner is i think the my name is being a teenager being unsure what i'm doing like having kind of like having friends but also like my social skills are just like the worst citing like talk to anybody. I feel like the album just like spoke to me really heavy. I the base is one of my favorite parts in physical really go backwards on. It's just like jolly based on. I think the ending guitars early crazy the way he's kinda like i well while like super fuzzy why colleague it's cry. It's like google voice. Kinda like crying should have more with cuco after a quick break. It's both for maximum fund dot org n._p._r. Support for this podcast and the following message come from sierra nevada brewing company in one thousand nine hundred with a few thousand dollars and us dairy equipment. Ken grossman founded sierra in nevada brewing company canes award winning ales propelled him from home brewer to craft breweries. Today candidates families still own one hundred percent of the company one of the most successful independent depending craft breweries in america more at sierra nevada dot com. It has already been uneventful summer in politics yeah between the twenty twenty debates and the president's battle over immigration. There's a lot going on and win. There's news you need to know about the n._p._r. Politics podcast is there to tell you what happened not to mention. We're hitting the road. Also you can meet all of the two thousand twenty contenders. Appeal is gonna drive me crazy n._p._r. Politics podcast subscribe. We're the host of my brother. My brother may the and now nearly ten years into our podcast. The secret can be revealed. All the clues are in place and the world's greatest treasure hunt can now begin embedded in each episode of my brother. My brother is a micro clue that will lead you to fourteen precious gemstones all around this big beautiful blue world of ours so start coming through the episodes. Let's say starting episode one. Oh one on yeah the early episodes pre problematic so there's no clues those emphasis no no not at all the better ones the good ones clue ahoy listen to every episode repeatedly in sequence laugh if you must but mainly get all the great clues my my brother my brother may it's an advice show kind of but at treasure hunt mainly anywhere you find podcasts or treasure maps my brother. My brother made the hunt is on. It's bull's eye. I'm jesse thorn my guest. This week is the musician cuco his debut. The album paramedics came out recently. Here's gluco kevin parker's the main person behind tim impala us producers composers pre much most of it and breath for me achieving the same i guess vibes and the same i guess in the staubach kind of feeling is like something that always always aimed for and it made me want to actually god and like really produce mind music because there's like a lot of things i want to express it bottled up and incoming parker's is like one of the main reasons that i started like creating music. You know one of the main reasons i decided star my solo project really goff often embark and try to follow my dream of making music because i knew i knew for a fact that schools are for me. You know like i would i again. I want to get angry at school school because i would. I would see kids that just kind of like i dunno slacked off but they were just smart and like without any effort as visa classes and like i'll just get mad because i'm like you know like i studied so much and like i feel like i'm failing but then those like thing like i had had some teachers actually help me realize like like maybe school isn't for you know like like they're. They're like don't tell us to my students but you know like you. You have your own talents. You have your own things you know charlotte to like my miss grace and mr eddie even my band director amy hughes you know like they're just like like sometimes school isn't very waiting on you. Have you have a journey and you have to embark it and definitely listen listening to come in barking okay how he created and like what what it was it was it was for me kind of like a huge refresher instead of being like yo i can i can i can do this and like i want to create enough and when i found out that not record or those records mostly where i'll kevin party. I wasn't shocked but yeah it was because i was like yo. That's so sick like with the students doing it by himself. Obviously he has some pretty crazy criminal outta handsome equipment but but it was still like yelling i indefinitely like make my own music for sure create and and like this like there's nothing that can stop you know started off off. Mike how a small and then unexpectedly my music did something for me and my family. It fueled that fuelled my desire to create music and actually wanted wanted to do something in be someone. It feels like we're only going backwards by tame. Impala the song that changed kuko's life his debut album pammy came <unk> out recently. You can catch him onto across the country this summer and fall no and that's the end of another episode bullseye our show recorded maximum fund dot org world headquarters overlooking beautiful macarthur park in los angeles california where this week our office witness the return of cucaracha basically for months a man would play like cucaracha from his car while driving by the lake so loud that we could hear it in our ninth floor concrete fortress and for a while he was gone and we were worried about him but this morning familiar notes return by papa by like the low rider horns the old neighborhood the show is produced by speaking into microphones our producer kevin ferguson. He's away from the office with a new baby that i i got to meet this week. I wanted to eat him up. Ragu monovalent has been filling in for him. He sues ambrosio is our associate producer. We get help from. I'm casey o'brien. Our production fellow is jordan. Cowling are interstitial music is by dan wally aka deejay w our thanks as always to dan our theme shaw is huddle formation by the go team. It's from their album thunder lightning strike which is getting a beautiful. I just saw this giving a beautiful l._p. Rerelease on multicolored vinyl that looks really sweet so chicago that are thanks to the go team and memphis industries their label and before you go there are so many great interviews in our archive. You can find them at maximum dot org. We're also on facebook twitter and youtube just search for bullseye with jesse thorn. You can keep up with the show. They're all of this. Week's interviews and segments are on our youtube channel. <hes> we are on twitter at bullseye. I guess that's about it. Just remember great radio host. Have a signature sign-off bullseye with jesse thorn is a production of maximum fund dot org and is distributed by n._p._r.
The Minister of Loneliness, Aristotle And How To Make That Awesome Person Your Friend
"You're listening to bake curious. I'm alan price. This is the second episode in our two part series on how to make friends. Last time we heard how to find a potential friends and now report just plop is back to tell us how to make them closer support for bay curious comes from sierra nevada brewing company family owned operated and argued over since nineteen eighty reminding listeners to think for themselves but drink with others sierra nevada dot com halevi livia. Hey what's up so we're trying to make better friends. <hes> yes always please tell me how okay well take it at that. I wanna talk about the different kinds of friends we have because for we've been grouping friends into different categories and someone who's done a really interesting job of that is aristotle aristotle. Wow wow okay we're going you really made me rethink a lot of my relationships. In the way he categorized friends which are in three the group's utility pleasure and the good who tell me more friends of utility are people whose friendship it makes life easier. A lot of our coworkers probably fit into this category but so might that freestyle. You're friendly with who might give you free coffee. Sometimes maybe the neighbor who feeds your cat totally or the bus driver who will slow the bus down when you're running to catch the best bus drivers do that. Yes the second group is friends of pleasure. These are friends that you have fun with who you enjoy doing similar activities with for me. I think of this group of women who i run with all the time you know we get together. We go out for ron's. We have a great time. We'd maybe have a beer but then we say goodbye and it's great and the last group unsurprisingly aristotle's fever in our friendships of the good these are friends who have great virtues whose values you share and you're just all around good people like i think of my friend who's incredibly thoughtful and caring in all her relationships yeah it makes me think of my best friend mandy you know in seventh grade she came up to me on the first day of school and she kind of welcomed me with open arms that reveal a lot about her like how kind and caring and warm arm she is and it's something that yeah i think i wish i wish more for myself and about that. She's probably more than just friendship virtue just because you guys have been friends for so along which leads me to say that these groupings are definitely not exclusive of one another like i'm sure mandy is both a friendship of virtue and probably pleasure like you guys do fun things together and even utility. We lived on the same hall in college so it was really nice to say hey mandy. Can you pick up my mail so that's aristotle's way of grouping things but then there's the way most of us have been doing it since we were kids going from so you know casual friend to friend to close friend your b._f._f. Yay bracelets that hold the all totally and friendship formation expert jeffrey hall all who we heard from last episode has some pretty clear delineations of this so a casual friend is that you like over other people but you don't necessarily spend a lot of time. I'm with outside the place that you meet them. This could be the guy that i always takes. Pictures of airport aren't too but we don't ever plan to hang out so i wanna i wanna have i wanna know more about how that relationship started about airport or once at a party and now we just pictures of it. Your life is so random. Yeah okay well. Let's move onto the next one so a friend of somebody that you might invite to come to a party or might spend time with outside the place that you meet them and it also could have been somebody who are very close to in the past but you don't know as well as you used to and so friends are both kind of the people who are going up in closeness and also the people who have gone down and closeness because the proximity. I feel like this is most of my friends like i really only have a couple of people who i really would consider close friends. I think totally totally and so it could be like you know your old college besties. You're not texting each other like you used to but they're your friend yeah yeah and now let's hear about the last group close friends. Close friend is reserved to people that you would share really important information your life you would seek out in times of trouble or stress. You'd be able to rely on and count on to be there for you when things get their worst like we heard from last episode for me. This is like anne marie. I feel it's also like someone you can. Maybe naked in front of and be like oh. It's fine depending on your cultural background but yeah yeah so we'll just define different kinds of friendships but defining it's one thing and turning say a casual friend into a close friend much harder. There was like a script that would follow to go on these dates abe cats. He's about thirty and he moved to san francisco last year here. He's noticed some distinct differences between searching for friends and searching for romance. When you enter into some dinner or drinks the situation there is expectation that like all right. We're gonna spend two hours or three hours together and then we're going to decide to see each other again in whatever we decide. It's going gonna be very explicitly decided. We're going to say the words or we're going to text words. Whatever but it's going to be like clear apes found the script for friends is not at quite as clear as like we have. You know a great dinner and then i would wonder like is it was the ball in my court array of are we seeing each each other a freaking court and <hes>. I don't know why but i found this to be like kind of anxiety inducing. I mean yeah. I guess you're right. There isn't isn't like a certain formula to follow when you're making a new friend totally and i wonder if there could be so i talked to this woman also zoom angie thurston she co-authored heard how we gather and other reports that look at how we build community and she thinks maybe we could use a script for friendship the way we have one for relationships rather than just okay i'll see you if i you or will catch up every six months or whatever to put a little bit of of contour around that and say you are one of the the people who really matters to me and what might it look like for us to add a layer of consecration to this relationship consecration craciun like making things more official this could mean maybe having the conversation with friends the way we do with lovers when we want to take it to the next level asking being a person. Will you be my close friend and maybe even planning to meet up definitively every month. You know it's it's a kind of missing category in many respects in our culture. There's there's the sort of lover or partner or boyfriend or whatever character right and then there's family early but friends are often rather left out in in the lexicon and especially committed friends and you can see this implemented institutionally who should be so just from who can sign for you at the hospital. Your friends usually can't sign. It's most often family members or your partner yeah that that makes sense that we would like really prioritize those relationships over friends i think also because as you age oftentimes there's this belief that friends kind of are gonna fall away. Where's your family and your partner like they are there. You're there for life right and you know. Most of us are just not ready to talk about making friends official official or having these kinds of scripts. So how do we make friend crushes closer. Let's talk about three practical tips. The first one is reciprocity because for all kinds of friendships to even survive. They have to be reciprocal meaning. Both parties need to be making an effort. They need to be hanging out and reaching out to people regularly is a great predictor of lasting friendship and don't be flaky. I that's one thing that especially in the bay area we are often criticized for is flaking out on friends when plans have been made. Don't be flaky. Yep okay and tip number two is time geoffrey hall says just like you need to spend time socializing to find friends. You need to spend a lot more more time making them closer but takes between forty and sixty hours to become a casual friend then roughly eighty to one hundred hours to become a friend and over two hundred hours to become it closer best friend. It's completely crazy to me that he's broken down into numbers but halls says it matters what you do. During that time just working with the person isn't going to do it. You have to do fun things like taking walks in the park dancing your favorite music going with the spa or or you have to talk having really meaningful conversations catching up or joking around so you can imagine spending time in leisure never talking about things that are particularly serious right but you can also imagine people meeting up at graduate school or work and having a serious conversation or something truly important but not necessarily hanging out together the third thing you can due to make people closer is to context shift so context is the idea that you develop closeness and friendships through act asking people to spend time with you outside aside the place that you met which can be a little scary but i do find it less intimidating. If i can invite friends to a really cool experience like <hes> our coworker tiffany cam high i took her out surfing and then she took me out riding motorbikes at that was definitely solidifying our friendship so inviting people to spend time with hugh outside school if you've met at school or outside of work when you've met at work establishes that you're not only somebody that i want to spend time with but someone who i might get to know in a different way by being outside the context where we met. Do you wanna know what kind of sad story about context shifting on okay it involves you. Did we do what did it fail. <hes> a couple years ago when we were kinda still getting to know each other. You invited me to go to a haunted house and initially <unk>. I thought it was just like a fun thing to do but then it was for a story oh my god i don't remember context ex- shifting and i was like oh wait. No we're just co workers and then. I was kind of embarrassed that i had thought that we want. I've revealed myself. Okay well. <hes> yeah which brings me to the fact that these tips are not guaranteed but all this is not only on you partially early on the system like some of us need to work less if we want to have more time to build these relationships which is important because now a lot of people are considering loneliness a public health issue like the former surgeon general of the u._s. vivek murthy. He's even declared loneliness and epidemic with effects as bad as smoking fifteen cigarettes gretz a day in the u._k. They now have a minister of loneliness and in canada to there's like unfolding policy changes and all that this is angie thurston again and and while most americans don't see loneliness as a problem that government needs to address. She thinks the government can help the government. What kind of socialist podcast does this stop. I'm gonna pretend you didn't say that on the simplest level. Municipalities can encourage relationships. That might have a lot of prep inquity. If you remember that that means routine opportunities to get to know each other one way is to throw a block party that way neighbors can meet each other and maybe become friendly but thurston can and dream even bigger what would it look like to have a loneliness tax on self checkout machines and netflix or for what would it look like to actually have that tax than go to help support the thirty five hundred churches that are closing closing every year in this country. What could we transform those spaces into. She wants to seem more opportunities to socialize outside of home and work eric lake. How can we make it so places like libraries and parks can be made more public and say open twenty four seven with social events that encourage the meeting eating of neighbors and like minded folks to me. That's a lot more practical either just wild hypotheticals but it's it's this kind of imagination nations that i would love to see in some kind of pilot form so perhaps we could follow the u._k.'s lead and get a secretary of friendship a person who can write policy that would grease the wheels to making more friends after all your reporting. I feel you'd be a great secretary of friendship jessica. I vote for you. Thanks livia well. Thanks for teaching so much today want to go to one hundred us. Oh not again. Don't play with my emotions okay. That's it for today show to learn about loneliness community washing and this go to bay curious dot org took bake is made in san francisco at cake. I'm alan price.