18 Episode results for "Shumita Basu"

The Military's Role During COVID-19 2020-05-25

The Takeaway

44:59 min | 1 year ago

The Military's Role During COVID-19 2020-05-25

"Already solemn day of remembrance this Memorial Day is heavy with the extra burden of the covid nineteen pandemic loved ones. Can't mourn or be together the way that they might have a year ago and throughout this pandemic the US Armed Forces whose primary mission is to defend the American people against enemies foreign and domestic had to contend with an invisible enemy. Today we ask. What is the role of the military in pandemic? And what should it be? I'M SHUMITA BASU. And that's where we start today on the takeaway. According to a twenty nineteen army manual the mission of the DOD in a pandemic is to preserve US combat capabilities and readiness and to support US government efforts to save lives reduce human suffering and slow the spread of infection. Now we've seen the flyovers by the Air Force Thunderbirds and Navy. Blue Angels to thank the frontline heroes the deployment of Naval Hospital ships to California and New York to handle patients spillover from their overburdened hospitals and the deployment of more than forty thousand National Guard members to help states battle the virus. Now those deployments face a hard stop on June twenty-fourth according to the trump administration that leaves the guard members with an eighty nine day deployment. Just one day shy of the ninety day mark that would make them eligible for early retirement and post nine eleven. Gi Bill Benefits. We will assess all of this with two people. William Arkan an army veteran journalist and author of more than a dozen books on the military and Geoffrey corn professor of law at South Texas College of Law Houston and retired. Army lieutenant colonel. Hello William Jeffrey. Welcome to the show. Thank you for having me and thank you also and bill. I'm curious really in the event of a pandemic or large public health crisis. What is the military supposed to do? And what have they been doing right now? Well the entire paradigm of emergency response sort of been turned on its head as a result of CORONA VIRUS. The paradigm that we've been operating with really since nine eleven is that a disaster occurs some place and assistance comes in from the outside the military mobilizes resources and they come from the outside to assist in civil government and civil response of course with Corona virus. There is no outside so we we've had to turn the entire paradigm of response on its head not just civil response but also the military response so I would say that in Corona virus that the paradigm for pandemic response has really been just thrown out the window. This war plan. If you will didn't survive contact with the enemy as they say and Jeffrey can you? Maybe tell the between how the National Guard is supposed to function in a moment like this compared to say other branches. I will say out of the gate that I don't completely agree with the paradigm being completely flipped on. Its head. As a matter of fact I think in some ways the Domestic Emergency Response Paradigm involving. The military has been pretty effective to date. And what I mean by. That is the expectation that there's a crisis in the state that challenges the State Authority then the National Guard which is under the authority of the state governor. Unless it's been put into federal service by the president will be the first military entity that will be called out to assist civil authorities. I think where I agree with. Bill is that that paradigm normally functions in a state or regional basis. So for example where I live in Houston during Hurricane Harvey. The governor called out the National Guard and he could rely on other states to send support from their national guard to bolster that response. What we have here is a national emergency. This is unprecedented in recent history. So you've got this odd situation where you have state governors calling up their national guard. Units and those units are not necessarily sufficient to meet the crisis so they then have to go through. Fema ASK FEMA to get federal military forces to help them and the federal forces have to come through an order of through the Department of Defence which is normally coordinated by FEMA. I mean have we seen anything comparable to this in the past? I take your point Jeffrey. That this this is different. Because it's unfolding in a national way very differently than sort of state centered responses. Is there anything comparable in history that we can look at? And maybe learn from in terms of military response. Well I mean I think that the closest thing we would have to this would be immediate aftermath of nine eleven where it was perceived as an attack on the nation and therefore it was predominantly a a homeland defense mission. Initially but generally I would say no. I think that this is really unique because the emergency is challenging so many states at the same time. And we've seen this in the news. There are incidents in history. Where a state get so overwhelmed by civil disturbance for example that they have to go to the federal government and ask for assistance from federal military forces. That's very rare because federal military forces are prohibited by law from participating in law enforcement unless the president votes a law. Call the insurrection. At the last time that happened was in response to the Los Angeles. Riots following the Rodney King Verdict in one thousand nine hundred ninety two. So it's very uncommon for the federal forces to be used to support the state in a law enforcement function. It's much more common for federal forces to provide kind of humanitarian assistance. To help mitigate a disaster or an emergency because in that capacity they're not enforcing law bill in Congress. I understand that. Lawmakers are currently negotiating. What the next Corona virus relief package might look like and I understand. The Pentagon has requested funds. Does it look like we will be increasing our military spending during this pandemic? It's really difficult to Discuss the military on Memorial Day and be critical. There's some danger involved both in sounding unpatriotic and disrespectful of those who do serve. But we should look at the facts of what happened here in Corona virus at no time. Despite this national crisis did the military mobilized more than sixty two thousand people and sixty two thousand sounds like a lot and in fact it is a lot but we should also remind ourselves that on nine eleven in response to those attacks in Washington and New York that the National Guard mobilized the same number of people in fact November twentieth. Two Thousand and one the National Guard and Reserves Mobilization peaked at fifty seven thousand. Almost exactly the same as the peak during corona virus. Now why do I say all of this? Because it's important for us to recognize that the military is an augmenting institution. It's not the primary responder and it shouldn't be the primary responder that one of the reasons why the military is limited in what it can do and how much it can mobilize is that. It's not configured for civil response these are mostly eighteen year olds with guns and people who are have the mission of defending the country and fighting the nation's wars and so rather than looking to the military and saying kind of blindly that they did a great job in corona virus. And we should give them more money. I think it's really a more of a lesson of how we need to build up our civil health and public health capacities that that. There's only so much that the military can contribute so let's talk about one aspect layer of healthcare capacity and maybe Geoffrey. You can speak to this. There was some controversy over the naval ships that docked in California and New York to handle patient overflow from hospitals. Some people pointed out that it didn't seem like those ships really handled as many cova patients as they should have. Tell us what you know about that. Yeah first off. I couldn't agree more with bill that there's a general public. I guess. Misunderstanding of what the military is when this began. I heard mayors and governors saying. Get the military in here. Get the military in here. I mean an armored division or a mechanized infantry battalion is not going to do much to help you when you're trying to provide medical care and the military doesn't have an endless supply of indigenous medical capability what they have is the ability to deploy medical resources very quickly and get them set up very quickly but they are very carefully tailored to the needs of the force. Meaning you know if there's a combat support hospital like the TV show Mash. There's a mobile combat support. Hospital hospital is designated to provide medical support to the troops in the field during a war and When the hospital ships were sent to to New York and Los Angeles I think people have to recognize that for Pentagon planners the world is a very unpredictable place. And we don't know what's coming down the road a week from now or two weeks from now we've learned this through history and those ships might necessarily have to be diverted very quickly to support the combat forces there principally tasked to provide medical care to so my reaction. When I saw that the ship in New York was not taking Cova D- patients that it was being used for non. Kobe treatment to free up resources in the civilian hospitals for Covid was not that that was a failure to me that was logical because the last thing that the ODI except would be the idea that suddenly an emergency arose somewhere. The ship had to deploy to provide medical support and half of the ship's crew had been exposed to corona virus. So it's very difficult balance for dod to make when they commit their resources in support of civil authority because they have actual national security missions that they always have to be prepared to execute. And Jeffrey what do you think we can learn from the way that the military has been deployed in this moment and the way that the military is acting within. Its own ranks. Well I think one of the lessons. It's going to come out of this. And one of the points of inquiry is how prepared the nation is for a real national emergency and what is the right balance between in the at the federal response level between The use of military assets and non military assets of. I actually think there are a lot of unanswered questions. About the impact of this event on readiness the inability to engage in training the inability to move people around the inability to engage in coalition training and operations. I think is going to have a negative effect on readiness but I also think there's another interesting aspect of this and that and that is that there are times when a response like this requires the ability of leadership to order certain measures that have to be complied with Geoffrey. Corn is professor of law at South Texas College of Law Houston and retired. Army lieutenant. Colonel and William Larkin is an army veteran a journalist and author of more than a dozen books on the military. Thank you both very much for joining us today. Thank you so much thank you. Who Are you remembering on this Memorial Day from Washington State? I am remembering a Vietnam veteran. A man I was engaged to as an eighteen year old girl. I broke up with him when he deployed to. What I thought would be an easy tour for him in Turkey that I just recently learned. He did go to Vietnam. And I'm so sorry to know how he suffered and how it impacted the rest of his life so he is on my mind this Memorial Day. I'm calling for Morristown New Jersey and my name's Mercedes. My grandfather fought in world war. Two Germany really crowded his contribution in the Puerto Rican men of color especially in light of today's political narrative. My name is Kenneth Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. I WON'T BE REMEMBERING MY DAD. Live from nineteen twenty five to twenty fifteen served as a North Atlantic the Mediterranean South Pacific and China. I gave him a thank you card every November for the last twenty years of his life. Hi this is b.j Anderson from style or it can. My grandfather was a veteran of world war. One and my dad was a veteran of world. War Two my wife and I will be tending our memorial garden that we planted to honor all of our loved ones in normal years. We'd have a couple of hundred people gathering at our farm this year it will be just the two of US reflecting on how the global challenge that we're all fighting today is not a war and on how we don't have a president inspiring and unifying the country with America proudly joining forces against a global threat as it did in those two world. Wars know we just heard some of your stories of veterans that your remembering on this Memorial Day and now we want to turn to a bigger conversation about honoring those we've lost in this moment along with our colleagues at death sex and money and the newsroom of home station. Wnyc we've been asking for your memories and stories about the people you've lost during the COVID nineteen crisis fossil and my brother. Charles was forty two the oldest of three children and a loyal big brother to his two little sisters but I will never forget is his bright blue eyes. His this capable humor his dizzying vocabulary his biting wit and most certainly his loved for his son. Hi this is Kelly from Tampa and we lost my grandmother on Mother's Day weekend and even thirteen years deep into the dementia. That stole so much of her. All Nanna Joni needed was a glass of white Zinfandel our spotify playlist and our company for her to laugh at every joke and to endlessly repeat. The Sky is so blue. The trees are full of fruit and we could not ask for a better day. I will surely remember that and so much more about her and we were lucky to have Rica grants pass. I'll never forget that. She was my mother and she spent forty years worked. Hard for forty years to write family letters to keep her children connected. My Name's Amy forgettable about my mother sense of adventure. She was a trailblazer in so many ways that I only appreciated much later. She thought nothing of loading the three of US plus one friend each into the car and setting off for a museum in Boston or Salisbury Beach Winter plus our dog or just stand with the crowd to catch a glimpse of a visiting dignitary. She believed in the power of witnessing events first hand and making up ones online quality that stood her in good stead during her long career as a photojournalist covering life in small towns southern New England but the Eagle Tribune. I'm commending reverend so Lipka Cherkasky for has been he was he and his wife Erin did so many things together and they would share their pictures and their stories and those of us who knew him and loved him knew how much he treasure his relationship with Aaron my name is Kathleen Celine and I'm calling from Girard Ohio. Hi this is Katie from St Louis Missouri and I am honoring Grandpa Ted. Who died on the other day and I will never forget his smile and his ability to communicate even though he lost his each six years ago after a stroke this is Elisabeth Abraham from Minneapolis. I husband passed away. August second of two thousand nineteen and what I remember most is wonderful must for me and it was mutual joining me to talk about some of what you've shared and the Act of remembering in this moment is Anna sale host of the podcast death sex and Money Ana. Hi and welcome thank you. Thanks for having me. Oh and thanks for being here. What a time for your show death sex and money three things that we need to talk about more and things that have gotten even bigger and more complicated during a pandemic I would imagine. Yeah of all things that we're dealing with. That are always hard. But we're dealing with more in isolation than usual and in particular. I think death is one of those things. That's really hard to figure out how to how to move through and grieve when you're doing it in isolation Sure so. Why did you and your team want to collect these these stories these memories right now. Well I mean clearly there's just so much death and loss around us you know almost one hundred thousand deaths here in the US from covid nineteen in even if that's happening now that aren't related to the corona virus. Were not able to sort of mark them through familiar rituals in the ways that we would when we aren't an isolation or sheltering at home. And when you don't have the rituals that we normally do to mark loss I think that there's there's not a space To think about the meaning of people in your lives there's not a space to gather together and to to grieve together so we wanted to try to create this other new space of of an email inbox to send your memories of people. You've lost Just to mark them to to mark their loss and to say this is what it meant that they were here Let's play one of those memories that a listener sent in this is Rebecca in Colorado. I unfortunately lost my grandmother to cope with nineteen And I live across the country from my whole family. So it's been dislike this really isolating experience I'm trying to remember a lot of the positives. My Grandmother was always just this ray of sunshine. She loved being with family was so important to her and she used to call me her rainbow which. I always took with like a grain of salt but looking back it was such a beautiful word to describe the relationship that she and I had together And even though she's gone that love of family is something that I think Continues on through all of us? That such a lovely detail but her grandmother called her rainbow. I feel like we've been hearing from lots of people just how difficult it is to not have that physical gathering and to be a part at this time. Have you been hearing that a lot from folks the the difficulty of grieving alone and not together? Yeah I mean I think that for people who are losing people close to them you know. Even if they're nearby just not being able to be physically next to them while they pass. is is really upsetting And then if you're grieving away even if you weren't that close to someone who died when you don't have a place to go for memorial service for example where you can just like go through a receiving line and say to the family members of someone who died you know I. I will miss them and give a hug. When all you have his words it's different and so It's in we don't. We're not really skilled at that. We're not really skilled at saying to somebody calling them up and saying this is what your mother meant to me and I want you to know that So these were all having to sort of swept through these very different kind of social interactions while we can't be alongside one another physically. It's it's hard now and I wanNA share a call that came to us this week. It came from someone who's father died very recently. My is James Badillo from Providence Rhode Island. My father was one of the most amazing men I've ever known. It was an amazing husband and amazing Father Naval War veteran in Vietnam. He just passed recently due to lung cancer from chemicals and various agents in Vietnam demand could build anything and fix anything with his amazing hands. He created the world with his hands and I his only son have his hands. I see them every day and try to use as well for my family as he did for his. I just WanNa thank James for sharing his father's memory with all of us. I mean. That's quite a metaphor. I see my father's hands and think about what he built. And I WANNA build something similar. You have been hearing from people who are not just describing a very close family member. Right you've been. Hearing from some folks were describing acquaintances or maybe even people that they knew in passing but that had a really big impact on them right yeah. These are some of my favorite messages. Because it's just the kind of thing that maybe over the potluck at the after the memorial service the kinds of stories that would get passed between acquaintances of people. I like hearing these and they don't really have anywhere else to go right now and this is a message we got from a woman named Dina and Bloomfield New Jersey. She sent in this memory. Andy Giuliano put up with me for. Decades is my go-to contractor. He taught me that anything built could be taken apart to stack moving boxes close to the front door and then an estimate is only estimate he attracted the best most meticulous team and made my dreams come true project after project decade after decade. He even built a home for my tortoise. I'm GONNA Miss Sandy Forever. And the world is last without him. He built a home for her tortoise. When we lose someone and even if it's someone that we didn't know all that well or wasn't related to us. I think that we start to assemble these lists right the things that we will always associate them with. And that's what I heard in Dina's message. Yeah and you've been talking on your show dot sex money. It's been around for six years. Now you've been talking with people about death and processing for all these years and I wonder what you feel like you've learned from people about the value of talking about grief and loss and what we can be thinking about in this moment when there is so much grief and loss happening. You know something. I've been thinking about a lot is I've heard from people who have experienced really Deep Grief How much they appreciate. When people in their lives acquaintances like people will bring up somebody. Who's died? They can notice that that people will avoid talking about somebody who died because they don't want to upset you or they don't know what to say and just what a gift it can feel like when somebody says. Oh I was thinking about your husband the other day. Do you remember when this happened. And just getting to share memories with one another. That's something that I hope. This project kind of prompts people to do to save his stuff out loud to the people in your lives to create community around loss and to honor people's Memories It's something that you can do and you have to try a little harder right now because we're not all going to gather in one room and think about someone's life and their meaning and their legacy because we can't do that right now so you have to pick up the phone or write that note record that voice memo It's up to us to take that step. It takes a little extra effort saying in this man. We will keep collecting your memories and stories of people that you lost during this time. Record your memory on your phone. Email it to remembering at WNYC DOT ORG and we'll stay in touch with Anna and all of our friends at sex money to let you know when they'll be sharing more about this project and a sail thank you so much. Thank you I'm Shumita Basu in for Tanzania Vega and this is the takeaway. It's good to have you with us on Memorial Day. We have one more conversation for you. Since the pandemic began the volume of obituaries and paid death. Notices in our newspapers have become a powerful reminder of the loss we're all experiencing right now and in the absence of traditional mourning rituals like funerals. The obituary pages are becoming a communal space for us to grieve together. In this moment for more on what obituaries mean during this pandemic I spoke with Maureen. O'donald the obituary writer for the Chicago sun-times and a former president of the society of professional writers and John Pope a contributing writer for the Times Picayune Newark are liens advocate and the author of the book getting off at elision fields obituaries from the New Orleans Times Picayune. John's been writing obituaries for decades. Now and he's developed a pretty good sense for what makes a good obituary. Here's what he's always looking for. Something that punches. My Quirky buttons something. That makes me think. Wow this is something people would like to know about. For instance. There was a dear friend of mine. Who was the city's chief administrative officer her father had died? He was a letter carrier. Everyone loved him and we chatted about that for a while. Okay Brenda what else. She said well pope in World War Two. He was a spy and I said cool. He was one of the few African Americans in counterintelligence he was signed a pug thing English Channel probably where Black Before d day might be leaking out and he was one of the first guards in a presidential security detail. Now that's a cool story. John's talked about finding the rose. Bud moment you know on the reference to citizen Kane. You're you're finding out what makes somebody tick and one of my talk about kind of a typical Chicago. Area resident named Jim Cole. He grew up in a well to do suburb but became fascinated by a beers at a young age and he wound up moving to the American west and he became a wildlife photographer specializing in grizzly bears. In the course of my research which was spurred just by a classified death notice mentioning his love of Grizzly bears. In of course my research I wound up talking to a gentleman. I think is title was director of Bear Management at one of our national parks and it turned out. Jim Cole was the only known person in North America to have survived not not one but two attacks by Grizzly bears because in his photography he got a little too close to some Mama. Bear's what are the components of an obituary? What are the parts that you're definitely looking for draw always finding out you know who they are occupation survivors where they died When they died and where they were born I like to ask questions that elicit more than a. Yes or no answer. You don't say you know. Did your mother enjoy cooking or did your mother enjoy dancing? I want to know what kind of car did she drive. Did she like dogs. Oh what kind of dog. Oh she had eight boxers in her lifetime and What TV shows did she like How about if I walked into her house? What's the first thing I'd notice so I'm asking specific questions to make that person come alive again. I like to take my cue from question on the first night of Passover. It's a very on the question. How is this night different from all other nights? My question is how is this person? Or how is this story different from all other stories and saying this? The specific is universal. Great Indian film director Mira Nair said that and Roger. Ebert are film. Critic used to quote her the more specific you find out about the person the more universal bit story. Is You know whether you writing about a Japanese American who settled in Chicago after getting out of an internment camp or an Irish immigrant or an African American came north in the great migration or someone who fled the Middle East after conflict. Yes those are specific stories. But they're universal to it's every grandparents or great grandparents story so since you're both professional obituary writers and thinkers. I hear what you're saying that you're often looking for kind of a quirky or detail when deciding who to write about but what about during a crisis like the one we're currently going through How do you decide who gets an obituary in this moment? And who doesn't we pitch stories but the it's the up to the editors say or Nay and it's not as simple as saying oh someone died. Let's do an Obe it no. This crisis is happening at a point when the print industry has already an economic crisis and with the Kobe nineteen epidemic. The number of ADS HAS SHRUNK. Which means that number of pages and news whole have shrunk but has to be someone who has not only succumbed to corona virus but also someone who was somehow noteworthy for instance. One of the people I wrote about here was an Obgyn who delivered more than three thousand babies during his career. Another one opened up the US trade with China. After thirty years and most recently there was a community college administrator who died of the virus and she was a saint. She bought helped kids by textbooks. She gave transit passes when they didn't have money that obe it has gotten more feedback on facebook and on. Our newspaper's website than any other orbit. I've ever thousands of people but it reminded me of what again other cinematic reference Clarence. The Angel said to George Bailey in. It's a wonderful life. One person's life touches many others Maureen. What about for you? Who are some of the people that you've been writing obituaries for during this time? One thing that I like to do and I think it's a service to our readers is to write about a variety of people different ethnicities different professions different generations different genders people who seen life's rich pageant. Whether it was survived having the Spanish flu epidemic or liberating a concentration camp in world war two or inventing at an chocolate chip cookie recipe. I've often said that I think obituary writers are frustrated. History teachers were trying to Share different stories with our readers and some of the coronavirus obituaries. I've done One of course you couldn't ignore it was John. Prying you know one of the most beloved troubadours in America he was admired by everyone from Bob Dylan to a black keys to Casey. Musk graves to roger waters from Pink Floyd and started out as a postman in Maywood Illinois. Right outside of Chicago jump. Ryan used to start composing his lyrics in his head while he was walking delivering mail. I also wrote about a woman Amelia Pond Torelli. She helped operate Tony's Italian Deli in Chicago and she fed thousands of people with her. Ready made meals and LASAGNA. This was a woman who survived the Nazis coming to her mountaintop town in Italy at twelve or fourteen years old. Her father had to drag her away from the Nazis because she was raining verbal abuse on them when they stole her pet goat for lunch. She immigrated started new life in America worked at the family business and covert took her. Now you've both mention such specific and human and lovely details about some of the people that you've written about. Ki tells how you find out these really specific details when you want to write an obituary and I imagine. I wonder whether that process is different in the obituaries. You're writing right now for people who are dying at this moment especially non celebrities we're reporters and we just have to find out something that will give us more than what. I call a resume. Oh Bit Yeah my friend Molly. I've said that about as Dulles bus station Chile. I'm doing a bit today on the found of the New Orleans film festival a French said whenever I walk into a move. He was standing in the lobby. He talked about the movie and that'd be film. I was seeing just little details. It makes the person stand out. It's it's all about the details. Yes and that's a that's a hardy perennial you do that whether it's the year two thousand and or the year two thousand twenty when? I'm writing about somebody like John Prying who so well known. I'm looking for the Chicago stories from his origin. That people may not know. And you you always look for the greater context. Here we have food two of my favorite obits or food obits Ella Brennan who is the matriarch of the family that runs commander's palace and other restaurants and Leah Chase the queen of Creole cuisine. Who Fed the civil rights movement? So you put Miss Leah. Who died year at the age of ninety six against this background of the Civil Rights Movement? She Fed the civil rights movement. James Baldwin loved or Gumbo and it turns into a pretty rich story. You know on this show a few weeks ago. We talked about funerals right now. And how of course the pandemic has really complicated are available to mourn collectively. Have you been thinking about the function of the obituary pages in this moment and how they're possibly filling that gap? It's definitely is because there's no other way to do it. Publicly Ellis Marsalis. Who was a major New Orleans musician? Who lived in my neighborhood? Deserved a second line brass band people following with umbrellas and Handke's celebrating his life New Orleans funeral right. Yeah I I noticed when I see page after page after page of death notices there. It's greeting if make one point here that I was thinking when Maureen was telling her wonderful stories. But we're doing here. Is What Mark Elite Fox in a documentary called OBE. It said that an obituary is only tangentially about death. What you're doing. An obituary is recalling and prep celebrating the person's life. These are sort of the way. Were community grieving. Now yes funeral homes are live streaming wakes and lives Live streaming gravesite services. But I think the death notices that I'm seeing the Chicago Sun. Times are expanding. I think that the family friends and funeral homes are putting in so many more details as a way to sort of be a community support group. I mentioned to someone this week that I was reading a death notice about a woman who loved cats and yes in the past I might see. She loved her Pinky. But in this death notice they mentioned every cat the individual it ever owned and it was so endearing to me to read about pinky storm. Ginger eefja midnight princess. That was probably every cat this person owned from when they were sixteen to when they were eighty six and before the coronavirus pandemic. I'm not so sure people would've put in every cat you know but I think it's a something we need to do to connect and celebrate each other. What it makes me think of what Linda Loman said. Near the end of death of a salesman attention must be paid. Yes and then also Marshall McLuhan when I was in college back ages ago said that seeing a story about an event you attended means that event mattered. Same with an Obita a death notice. It means that this person mattered in the overall scheme of things. You've been writing obits for decades now. I wonder how what you're doing right now compares to the process. You went through writing obituaries during other crises like during Hurricane Katrina for example your New Orleans or the AIDS CRISIS. Well first of all a story is a story and we report the story whatever be occasion might be age is more appropriate because I started writing a obituaries in the early days of AIDS back. Nobody really knew what it and everybody was terrified. I don't think we should attach a whole lot of what I call. Woo Woo to code. Obits I mean they are. They are new stories yes the occasion said but we report same way. We report any other obituary at any other time. Go after the fact see where they lead you. Correct me if I'm wrong but you've actually written your own obituary right twice. What was were both of those crosses. He's like I'm still. Why did you first of all? You're an editor Chan. Border put in in two thousand one. I was medical reporter when I had a the Centers for Disease Control Fellowship. I thought no telling where I'll wind up so I'll have an orbit ready well. I survived and in two thousand fifteen hours going on a safari to Kenya Tanzania. I thought better update that obits pope. Wow I mean how. How does it feel to sort of steel yourself for For writing something that would be read by others about you after your death. Who Better to write it? Also I mean. I wrote my wife's obituary the day after she day she died because I knew her better than anyone else. I didn't want any lesser hands to touch as obituary writers. You are very used to confronting death. And what have you learned from thinking about death and lost? That could be helpful for our listeners. To hear right now. Don't put off till tomorrow what you should be doing today. I've written and John will probably agree with me. I've written so many obituaries where somebody retired on a Friday and they died. Suddenly the following Tuesday and relatives said to me he always wanted to go on safari. He always wanted to see the Great Barrier Reef. He always dreamed of seeing Venice. And that has definitely impacted my life. I'M GONNA turn seventy a year and a half ago at my motto. Became if not now when and just do it? I want to go to Rwanda to see the guerrillas. I want to go to India. I went to add Arctic and January. Again I wanted to go and Maurice Excellently right and you also learn. Kindness and patience never argue with the family of the deceased never. Yes you write the story but thank you decide whether they want to talk to you. Because you don't have a subpoena. They they'll come around. To your point of view most my my mother quoted Scripture Allot soft answer turned away wrath but grievous words stirred up anger so you don't want to alienate the people you need to talk to. I have one other thought about lessons. I've learned from writing obituaries I'm a child of Irish immigrants and frequently have gone to the Irish Heritage Center here in Chicago for dances for Irish fests for Saint Patrick's Day and for more than twenty years. You know I would watch the Kaley dancers doing traditional. Irish dances with fabulous. Names like the siege of Anna's dances named after old wars and battles and in the middle of all these Irish Americans and Irish immigrants. Doing the dances was an African American man and he was very serious and he's very good at these dances and I meant to introduce myself to him to find out his story. Well I didn't the years. Go by you're busy. You're all Elysium at the next festival. Well he died a couple of years ago and I decided to look into his life and it was fascinating. His name was Alan Beal. I think he was a physicist. Has Scientific background? And he was fascinated by the patterns of these dances which are kind of like square dancing precursors to square dancing and he not only became adept at these dances. He knew more of these dances than I will ever know. And he knew their origins from fifteen hundred sixteen hundreds and he became this beloved Kaley Dancer. Who would go all over the Midwest with other dancers to perform and enjoy these old these old airs as the Irish Colin? And I you know I wrote a little story and most of the time we try to keep ourselves out of Obituaries John. Right but this time I put myself in there and I said. Please don't wait till tomorrow to introduce yourself to a person to reconnect with an old high school friend to right a wrong to say. You're sorry you know do it. Now because Allen passed away very young I saw my high school physics teacher in a checkout line years ago with his mother. I should have gone up and said Mr Meyer. I'm John Pope. I say how much you meant to me and how much you've shaped my thinking. I didn't John. Pope is a contributing writer for the Times. Picayune New Orleans advocate and Maureen. O'donnell is the obituary writer for the Chicago Sun. Times so fascinating so great to talk to both of you. Thank you thank you for. Thank you so much for being with us on this Memorial Day you can call us anytime at eight seven seven eight might take or send us a tweet at the takeaway with any of your thoughts. You can also tweet at me if you'd like. I'm at shoebox zoo. That's S. H. U. Asu thank you so much for listening. I'm Shumita Basu in Tanzania Vega and this is the takeaway talk to you tomorrow.

the Times US National Guard president William Jeffrey New York New Orleans Chicago John Geoffrey corn SHUMITA BASU writer Corona army Anna Maureen America John Pope
NPR News: 01-30-2020 2AM ET

NPR News Now

04:39 min | 1 year ago

NPR News: 01-30-2020 2AM ET

"Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Shay Stevens. US Senators get another chance to question house managers and defense attorneys before for president. Trump's impeachment trials enters the next phase in response to one question Wednesday regarding the abuse of power charge. Deputy White House counsel Pat Philbin said that mixing personal motive with a legitimate public reason for delaying aid to Ukraine cannot be seen as a crime even if there was only one motive the the theory of abuse of power that the house managers have presented that subjective motive alone can become the basis for an impeachable offense we believe is constitutionally institutionality defective lead impeachment prosecutor. Adam Schiff disagreed. If any part of the presence motivation was a corrupt motive was a causal Oslo factor in the action to freeze the aid or withhold. The meeting. That is enough to convict. It'd be enough to convict under Criminal Law ship and other Democrats say trump's motors. Those can be gleaned from the unpublished book by his former National Security Adviser John. Bolton trump's Republican supporters are hoping to head off a subpoena for witnesses in the impeachment trial L. especially Bolton Border Patrol officials in California. Say a cross border smuggling tunnel discovered last summer stretches three quarters of a mile from KTBS. CBS Matt Hoffman. Has Details the tunnel run seventy feet underground from Tijuana to the US border community of Otay Mesa in southern San Diego County inside. It's five I five high. By two feet wide. It was one of the most advanced. Tunnels officials have found complete with a rail system electricity ventilation and even drainage system. John Calorie is is with the Drug Enforcement Administration as efforts to strengthen security on our southern border increase Mexican cartels are forced underground to smuggle deadly drugs and other contraband into the United States U S and Mexican authorities found the tunnel last August. It was not being used and it's unclear when the tunnel was built authorities have yet to to make any arrests or seizures related to the tunnel. Matt Hoffman reporting the World Health Organization meets today to reassess its response to the corona virus outbreak in China where nearly eight thousand cases have been confirmed as NPR's Ping Wong reports researchers say that the disease has been spreading among humans in China since mid-december Number Inonu Lancet paper Hong Kong researchers looked at the I four hundred twenty five corona virus cases in the Chinese city of Han more than half of all the cases from December Bert linked to a live animal market. which closed on January first but many were not that means that the virus was already circulating among humans by mid December researchers researchers also found that the size of the outbreak doubled every week in its early stages they say reducing the rate of transmission among humans is key to ending the epidemic ping pong? NPR News Asian stock market is trading. Lower down two point seven percent in Shanghai this is NPR news in Louisiana. The State Supreme Court says Walmart is not responsible for taxes on items that are sold by third party sellers through its online marketplace writing for the majority Justice John Weaver says there is no such obligation in either state laws or Walmart agreements with other sellers the retail giant. It says it is pleased with the ruling and would support legislative efforts to address the issue in New York City officials are assessing what can be salvaged from building fire last last week in Chinatown the story from WNYC Shumita Basu. The building was home to Social Services Language School and the Museum of Chinese and America Museum President Nancy. Al Masback says she's encouraged by what's been recovered so far. There were textiles that we found that I was shocked. Musical legal instruments that were found in they were in good shape. I thought they might be damaged. They were fine. The first object pulled from the building was a rare Chinese orchid. Dandong works the Dance Center and says that flower belongs to its founder when it came out and dealing everyone applauds because that's the first thing to merge things a symbol of a much better future for all all of US officials are still investigating the cause of the fire for NPR news. I'm Shumita Basu. In New York. Boeing is reporting its first annual loss and over over two decades citing increasing costs fixing struggle. Seven thirty seven Max Plane CEO. David Calhoun remains confident. The regulators world certified the plane fly again and by mid year seven thirty seven. Max grounded nearly a year ago after two deadly crashes I'm Shay Stevens N._p._R.. News in Washington.

US Bolton trump Shay Stevens Washington Shumita Basu Matt Hoffman NPR president New York Adam Schiff Bolton Border Patrol NPR Walmart Max Plane CEO White House National Security Pat Philbin Tijuana KTBS China
His Name is George Floyd 2020-05-27

The Takeaway

53:18 min | 1 year ago

His Name is George Floyd 2020-05-27

"Nobody's leaving on a jet plane and you really don't know when you'll be back again. I would not get on a flight until vaccinated. I don't feel comfortable taking any form of transportation other than my own car. I just don't even know if I could do it. You're talking to us about it it's the takeaway for Wednesday may twenty seven and I'm Shumita Basu also on the show. Meatpacking plants are being hit really hard by Covid nineteen. We're talking about how workers many of them undocumented are coping with their lives on the frontline. The National Guard was rumored to be coming to help carry out NASA testing people in the community. Were afraid of what that meant for them. If people are afraid to go to hospitals to get tested because they're afraid of being asked right edification let's get to it that is sound from protests that ran late into last night in. Minneapolis Minnesota over the killing of a black man. George Floyd by a White Minneapolis. Police officer a graphic video taken by a bystander shows the officer kneeling on Floyd's neck for several minutes. Floyd died soon after the encounter the outrage has led to an FBI investigation and the firing of all four police officers. Who were on the scene? We now turn to John Collins Senior reporter on Minnesota public radio's race class and communities desk. John Thank you for being here. Welcome to the takeaway. Thanks for having me so John. Many of us have seen that disturbing video by now. What are you hearing from all the backlash there mean? Yesterday there was a response from public officials from the governor. Tim Walls to attorney general. Keith Ellison the mayor Essentially condemning what people see in that video and calling for authorities to look deeper into exactly what happened in the public. There were people gathering at the scene throughout the day and then gathering in protest and hundreds of protesters who then marched through the streets in mostly in masks and spaced at some distance. Sometimes to the third precinct last night and what happened with these protesters have been seeing some some pretty disturbing videos of how they were met by police forces. They're worse than confrontations when they arrived at the precinct Some windows of police squad vehicles were broken. Window at the precinct was broken and police responded with a chemical irritants. Firing tear-gas over and over into around the crowds and this is on a relatively busy intersection in south. Minneapolis and and so protesters were gathered in a kind of downpour last night. With on four of intersection kind of having the standoff with police for hours last night. Now according to Mapping Police Violence Dot Org Minneapolis. Police kill black people at a rate of thirteen times higher than white people. That's larger racial disparity than almost anywhere else in the nation. Does that bear out in your reporting John. It's important to remember. The Minnesota's had just one police officer. That's been convicted for killing his civilian on job and that was off. Sir Muhammad Noor who shot and killed. Justin rose check in two thousand seventeen and Noor is back in Reuss. Jack was white in another high profile police killing that was Landau. Casteel the motorist. Who was pulled over by officer Horon Janas in two thousand sixteen inch guilt? The officer was acquitted in his staff has the Minneapolis. Police Department issued. Any kind of statement. The Minneapolis police. Chief has fired the four officers involved in this case. They seem that they're looking into the actual procedures. The the neely on the neck that will be part of their internal investigation and mayor. Jacob Fry said that firing the police officers was the right thing to do. Were these officers wearing body cameras. The Police Department is saying that the officers were wearing body cameras and that the incident was captured on body cameras. And then so we have that evidence that will eventually come out. We're probably not going to see the body cam videos until and if a trial happens or a decisions made not to charge the police officers right. So you're saying if there is a trial Anderson those four officers have been fired What could potentially lie ahead for them? I know that there's also an open. Fbi investigation now with the officers have been fired. They do have the right to contest that through their union In that process could take awhile and we may not know for quite a while. Exactly how it's going to play John. Collins is senior reporter on Minnesota. Public Radio's rubric. Class and communities desk. Thank you for coming on the show John. Thanks for having me around the country. Thousands of meat and poultry plant workers have been diagnosed with covid nineteen last month the CDC said they were around five thousand cases of Corona virus in Meat Processing Facilities However nonprofit organizations estimate that today. That number is closer to twenty thousand people so far sixty six workers have been confirmed dead. Although that number could be higher despite the health risks the trump administration ordered that meat plants stay open during the pandemic and this has led to counties with these facilities to have twice the rate of infection compared with the national average. So let's talk about how it's affecting workers and why it's such a problem. Tina Vazquez is gender justice reporter with prison and Nicole. Nora is an immigration reporter for Fox. Tina Nicole thanks for joining us. Thank you thanks for having me so Nicole. Why don't we start with you? Why exactly has corona virus spread so quickly in these meat and poultry plants? Is it the working conditions there or something else? Yeah it's the working conditions. Both inside the plants and outside the plants even in normal times meat packing is is backbreaking. Work with workers having to haul these huge cuts me and carve them into market ready portions on the production line for relatively low hourly wages on the production line. Workers are often standing shoulder to shoulder and in those kinds of setting. It's difficult to promote social distancing unless the plant significantly reduced their capacity. Some plants have already done so but at the same time. President has also ordered the meat packing plants to stay open and encourage them to keep working at full capacity in order to ward off shortages. So some plants may not be may be taking drastic action. Also plants are now taking employees temperatures handing out additional protective equipment but workers might still spread the virus unknowingly if their asymmetric there. There is also research suggesting that the virus might survive longer in the cold kind of humid air of meat packing facilities the required to stay that way based on federal guidelines on for food safety so it may spread as an aerosol on also via the kind of aggressive ventilation systems that they have in these facilities and in the local community is workers live they tend to sort of live in cramped shared housing and commute together. Sometimes on company provided buses a recent Bloomberg nalysts actually found that since trump issued his executive order requiring the plants to remain open infections in the counties near these large meat packing facilities have actually president more than twice the national rate and Tina. You've been speaking with a lot of workers at these plants in your reporting what do the working conditions look like in the facilities? And what are you hearing from people inside? I think the most troubling part of it is that the workers that I've spoken to say that there's a total lack of transparency from the companies that they work for I've been focusing on Mount Air Farms in burrows central North Carolina A lot of people are not showing up to work and workers are unsure if people aren't showing up because they're afraid of contracting the virus or if because they're sick with the virus and so several women that I've spoken to have told me that they've asked their manager supervisor directly if they've come into contact with anyone in their areas on the line who contracted the virus and they are told that is protected information confidential information that they won't be sharing there are new. Cdc Guideline for poultry processing plants in which it's recommended that employers tell workers if they've come into contact with people have contracted the virus. But that doesn't seem to be happening at least among the workers that I've spoken to in North Carolina and they've also reported that you can't distance from the person I mean these are people who are working on the line doing repeated movements they are shoulder to shoulder with other workers in North Carolina in particular. Testing is not being done at the levels that it needs to be done so people are asymptomatic and they're going to work Or they want to get tested but there isn't information about where they can get tested. There's a lot of fear in the community about whether it costs a lot of money There are language access issues so even people who want to get tested told me that they have no idea how to get tested in North Carolina unless you are showing symptoms of Kobe than you're not going to get a test Nicole. You mentioned that Executive Order President Trump. Signed it Last month invoking the defense production act to keep plants open during the pandemic did that executive order to any meaningful outcome for workers Some plants have closed right. Some plants have closed yes but He wants the plans to basically reopen in accordance with federal guidelines. The problem is with those federal guidelines that some agencies have been issuing in order to protect workers. They're not actually enforceable. They're basically sir kind of suggestions and there's no real accountability mechanism built in so actually hundreds of worker rights. Groups are petitioning Congress to pass a bill that would require the federal government to issue An emergency emergency temporary standard to prevent the spread of Corona virus in the workplace And that would be enforceable. So as Tina mentioned we haven't seen these plants really following through with some of the federal guidelines and and that would really help But in terms of of what trump's executive order has actually done it's sort of more of a semantic flourish than actually ordering these these plants to produce a certain amount of me on behalf of the federal government but it does have the effect of discouraging the plants From from taking more drastic action to prevent the spread of coronavirus in their plants. And when you talk about Labor organizing sorts of things are they asking to be codified for these plans to be doing differently so They basically just want to enact cleaning standard screening practices on Standards around the administration of personal protective equipment and social distancing on all these kinds of basic protections that we would hope employers are acting even outside of meat packing plants and these things are not being standardized at the moment. You're saying I mean they are through federal guidelines but those guidelines are not enforceable. Tina I understand that around one third of people working in these facilities and most likely more than one third are from immigrant communities and many of them are undocumented. Does that mean that they are particularly vulnerable as workers? Yeah I mean I what what's been really interesting to learn as I reported on the conditions North Carolina's when poultry processing plants talk about the protections that they're offering to their employees fat often doesn't encompass an entirely different workforce that makes up the bulk of their workforce which are undocumented workers who aren't considered direct as of these companies but rather hire through a staffing agency. Often that's how undocumented folks get jobs at these facilities. They're considered employees of the Staffing Agency. Which means they get paid less. They have fewer protections. They don't have healthcare and this. This creates a lot of additional hurdles especially during a pandemic. I mean At Mount Air Farms when the National Guard was rumored to be coming to help carry out massive testing people in the community. Were afraid of what that meant for them if they were confused. If that meant that immigration enforcement would be taking place. People are afraid to go to hospitals to get tested. Because they're afraid of being asked for identify -CATION So when you have. A large percentage of the workforce that is undocumented community and they don't have access to information in their language. They're afraid of immigration enforcement which has taken place in central North Carolina. We've seen large rates of different workplaces including these poultry processing plants. It creates an environment where people are afraid to ask for more information. They're afraid to seek the health care that they need. It creates insurmountable barriers for different communities. And what does labor organizing look like when these people are already afraid to be speaking out because of possibly because of their status? I mean it could be. That organizing is happening and that it's not public but among the women that I've spoken to who work at these poultry processing plants. They mostly described conditions of like mutual aid among workers were there. Some of them have said that the companies aren't telling them any information about the size of the outbreaks and so they're relying on information from each other. They're providing childcare to each other providing food to each other. I mean I think that its own form of organizing but it's less formal than what we think that. There is a lot of mutual aid happening. But what's unfortunate is the lack of transparency is. They can't develop an understanding of the risk. They're taking by going to work if they don't have the information that they need if it's not coming from the company's than they're watching the news so people who work at specific plants learned about outbreaks at their own plants by watching the news in Spanish but the downside of that of course are rumors that circulate when large percentages of people aren't going to work. They don't know if they're sick or just afraid. And so rumors circulate that you know there could be. Thousands of cases are hundreds of cases. Or this person or that person but there's no way to confirm So they rely on the information that they have and sometimes that's good. Sometimes it's bad we actually have seen Some employees staging walkouts at major meat packing facilities and One even anonymously filed a lawsuit against their employer. Smithfield's which is one of the nation's largest pork producers but Republicans are actually fighting to shield businesses from these kinds of lawsuits and liability if their employees contract corona virus. Which would make it that much harder for these employees to stand up for their rights. I want to ask you Nicole. You know our Friday politics host Amy Walter. She recently spoke with mayor. Quinton heart from Waterloo Iowa and in his city there was an outbreak of coronavirus at a local pork processing plant. That's owned by Tyson and the plant was later closed. So here's what may or heart had to say. There is a direct correlation between a strong agricultural base A healthy workforce production slow and the impact to local national economies. If you if you don't have A protected workforce or if you have a workforce where large numbers are not feeling well or could have potentially contracted the virus. Then you don't have production and with that many people calling in sick or unable to work due to the virus. No matter what you do you're not going to produce at the same level so that's mayor heart in Waterloo Iowa Nicole. What have we been hearing from? Local politicians and industry leaders. Are there efforts to help the workers? In these conditions. Certainly on a local level we've seen officials administering guidance and Requiring local facilities to close on there was one Smithfield facility. I believe that was foreclosed. Upon basically an ordinance from local officials on but yeah. I mean he's completely right in the sense that I think the worker safety problem is Not Distinct from the problem with shortages and our meat supply and keeping the facilities open and without additional protections for workers isn't going to resolve the shortages that we're seeing in supermarkets across the country. Right now it really is about protecting those workers and only then can we get production levels. Backup Somewhat Tina. Something that you tweeted my attention. You said that what's happening in these. Plants is an immigrant rights and worker rights issue. But it's also a gender justice issue. Can you explain that? How does gender play into this? When I started to do this reporting did not set out to cover it from a gender justice angle. I really thought that these would be immigration stories But as I started to my reporting and more and more people wanted to speak to me about the conditions that they were seeing the plans that they were working at They were all women and I didn't know if that's just who happened to be speaking out or that's WHO's working in poultry processing plants. I mean I Had ideas or assumptions about who? I thought worked at these facilities and it turns out that I was wrong. I started to ask around whether it was North Carolina Mississippi there large percentages of women. Working at these plants is book to woman last week name. Loosen I asked her directly. Is it just that women for whatever reason feel more apt to speak out or is it that large percentages of people who work at these plants are women and she said that it was both That women are the breadwinners that women have to take care of their children. that they're juggling all of these different roles in that they have the biggest risk to take and the most to lose if they get sick because that means it. They can't support their families that means that they can infect their children If they live in multi generational homes. That means that they can make parents sick And so I mean I think it's a combination of the two that that women for whatever reason in North Carolina want to speak out but also they make up a large percentage of the workforce. Tina Vazquez is a gender justice reporter with prison and Nicole. Nora is an immigration reporter for Fox was really great to have you both here. Thank you thank you for having me on a flight lately. I'm going to guess the answer is probably no at the start of twenty. Twenty air travel was doing great business according to CNBC just months ago the airline industry had reached its highest employment level in more than sixteen years today with a roughly ninety percent. Drop in air travel compared to a year ago. The industry has suffered dramatic economic losses. Twenty five billion dollars in federal relief is being provided to airlines as part of the cares act under the condition that companies do not reduce pay rates or lay off employees but many of the major airlines have cut their workers hours in response to the lower demands inflates and while in recent weeks airlines have started to see a slight increase in business. Many people in the United States just aren't ready to travel long distances on planes or other means like trains were hearing from you on this. How comfortable would you feel getting on an airplane right now? Crawling from Dunedin Florida. We do not feel traveling right now. Which is the same. Because we've got a gorgeous three year old granddaughter Montana and we would love plan to see her. My name is Scott live on Vashon island near Seattle tomorrow and flying to Boston from SEATAC? I have no concerns about my safety. As I have heard that the airlines are taking excellent care of passengers. All passengers are required to wear a mask as is and the jetsons. Airports are cleaned rigorously every day. I be careful wash my hands. Take all precautions. I'm not at all afraid. Hi My name's Lisa Rowdy. I'm calling from Seattle. I would be very nervous about getting on an airplane or train. Unless it was acquired that every passenger had their temperature before getting on board and as long as everybody wore a mask through the whole trip. I see. It's not terribly likely right now. I'm going to be doing all of my travel by car. Keep those calls coming at us at eight. Seven seven eight might take joining me. Now is banana. J. Wilson an editor at the travel website. The points guy. It's great to have you here. Thank you for having me and also with us is Leslie Joseph's in airline reporter at CNBC. Thanks for coming back on the show Leslie. Thanks for having me so leslie you heard there. Our last caller said she won't be getting on a plane unless it's required that every passenger gets their temperature checked and wears a mask or either of those measures being required by airlines right now well so far a major. Us airlines are requiring masks. That's a new change that started this month. The challenge with that is. How do you enforce it? Will they kick someone off a flight? Or they going to divert the flight probably not There've been airlines are telling their cabin crews don't essentially created a big fuss if a passenger refuses but try to talk to them and the flight attendants were trained in de-escalation So it is a requirement the airlines are telling people do not come on board without a mask try to wear them in common areas like ticket counters and gates are like near the plane It's they're limited in what they can do because this isn't a federal rule. Yeah exactly that was actually my next point. Those new federal body that sort of setting the regulations for this well the federal agencies that handle air travel and public health have been discussing this The Department of Homeland Security under which. Tsa Sits is looking at potential passenger. Temperature checks Maybe thermal scanning we've seen in in some other airports around the world are starting to see But but nothing has been done yet. so it's kind of this sort of hot potato which agency is handling what and what we've seen from FAA what we've seen from the Department of Transportation and even the CDC is recommendations which only goes so far So benign what is the experience of traveling on an airplane and traveling through an airport? Like right now It's a lot less crowded You come in. People have masks on most of the workers. Do have masks on People are trying to avoid the kiosk. I'm a person that uses my phone for my boarding pass and I don't check a bag so I don't have to worry about that Different rules about spacing through security lines. Some lines are empty and some lines up seeing photos of just normal. Tsa Lines then after you go through you know some of the gate depending on the airport. Some of the gate hold areas can look a little crowded Food areas. I was working on a story. About this. Air- airports are still trying to work out their regulations on how to keep people socially distant in restaurants and food courts. And then you know once you get on the plane. We've all seen that yet. Famous photo the united the pact flight after every single every single seat was filled on that flight. Yes yes after the airlines said they were GonNa try and do some social distancing although. I don't know how you can do that It's it's something that should be done but realistically you know it. That's going to be a challenge. Yeah and we talked a little bit earlier about the Federal Stimulus Money Leslie. How much of a lifeline has that stimulus been for the airline industry? Well that's definitely helping them. Keep stay afloat. But the airlines are also going to the bond market and raising equity sales and looking for other ways that they could raise money and they've raised billions. There is appetite to lend money from private markets. A two year lines But that money and the reason why it's important because it requires airlines to keep their entire staff through September thirtieth and they can't cut their pay rates so their hourly wages are still remaining. Same after September thirtieth. That's when things are starting to get dicey and even into the summer because often employees have to be warned when there's a big layoff coming under state rules so it is helping them stay afloat but the summer is the most important season for airlines the second and third quarters the most lucrative for them summer vacations. It's when probably airports are usually most miserable and the planes are at their fullest But after that point it. It's it's a big question. Mark it with what happens after that and some of the executives are already starting to let employees know you know we expect to be smaller airlines coming out of this And it is possible that they do have involuntary furloughs layoffs. I've been seeing some tantalizingly. Cheap flight deals in the past. Few Weeks Benin. These deals calling you or are you sort of staying away from them. Sh they are very very tempting. I'm a person who loves to travel but I am not quite comfortable enough yet to pull the pull the trigger And what what can we think about in terms of the long term for passenger costs? Well this this is going to have to be paid for. Somehow you know all these of the cleaning of the plane extra cleaning The money is going to have to come from somewhere and nine times out of ten that comes with airfare so I would not be surprised after the summer once. Things have kind of calmed down that we start seeing airfares rise right right and Leslie. I'm thinking about the transition away from person to person contact happening in airports. How can we expect this to affect airline security? Well the TSA is starting to think about this. But it's it's a very difficult thing to trace so you can screen people for temperatures. Which of course is a symptom of Cove Ed And maybe like weed out. People that are over a hundred point four degrees And then also maybe if someone is sick even just going through that might be a deterrent. But it's it's not really clear yet what it's GonNa look like. I mean it's still up for for debate Like inside the department homeland. Security is looking at those kinds of screenings. We're not at a point where like mass tested for. Covid or mass temperature checked at the airport But it is likely to add some time To to the security check and also keeping that social distance airport security lines. They're trying to space people out maybe some checkpoints of close because the demand for air travel has been so low and is likely to stay low compared with historical levels for a long time. What the uptick that we've seen. I think we're still awfully ninety percent From where we were a year ago started the summer. Spring and summer travel season So it is likely to add some time to the process and do any of the changes that are happening right now. Raise any new concerns for you when it comes to passenger privacy or even cybersecurity airlines have been looking at things like facial scanning instead of a boarding pass for a bit which has raised privacy concerns and other issues but since it's a public health crisis and one that has destroyed air travel demand pretty much like nothing else that we've ever seen airlines are really pushing the sort of the safety angle and looking at things like immunity passports Which you know aren't necessarily around the corner but it like once we get mass testing. It's still possible and travelers like they have always had to way with with air. Travel have had to weigh Privacy versus convenience. And that's going to be a question that every traveler faces when they go off and and when you say immunity passports you're referring to people who have gotten testing for antibodies. Right and maybe hit right weird for having antibodies. How how is how are airlines? Thinking about that is is that immunity testing really seen as something that they can give people a sort of immunity pass on. I don't think that they won. WanNa do any of testing but it could be something that could be required possibly down the line. It is somewhat theoretical and it's very early days with testing as well so if you have the antibodies are you guaranteed to never get or transmit cove again So those are some of the questions. Like how effective is it to even have somebody cleared And it raises all sorts of other issues. Yes yes banana. What do you think might be some of the long term changes to the air travel experience based on this a lot of people look back at September Eleventh? As a time when we completely revamped how we go through security. What might what might we see? Come out of this well. I think we're going to see a lot more Of social distancing as a requirement. I'M GONNA I'm saying we're GONNA see the spot floor. We're going to see a lot more Self-help options as more as checking bags and Checking in and everything. I think we'll see more people using their mobile phones to do all of these processes. I think we'll see spacing in gate hold areas although with some older airports that might cause some issues I also think we will see A the way. The airport operates as far as Foods in airport lounges There's GonNa be a of changes you're not going to be able to go up to the Soda Machine and just get your soda anymore. Things like that. Actually you wrote about how there are some bending new vending machines in airports. Now right with face masks and other sorts of things yes. Las Vegas Airport started a vending machine. That has n ninety five masks clorox wipes hand gloves all kinds of things. Yes we'll have to leave it there. Banana J. Wilson is an editor at the travel website. The point guy and Leslie Justice is an airline reporter at CNBC. Thank you both thank you. Thank you as we've reported on this show. Cruise ships were early hot spots for the Infectious Disease and the cruise industry effectively shut down in early. March with many believing that the crisis would only last for thirty days and while passengers and some ship's crew members have been sent home. It's now two months later. And one hundred thousand crew members are still stuck at sea and for those on board life has been difficult. Some workers aren't being paid and in many cases they don't know when they can go home. Taylor. Dolphin has been following this story closely. She's a business reporter covering tourism for the Miami Herald so the cruise industry really had a front row seat to the effects of this virus way back in early February while while the rest of the world outside Asia was still trying to figure out what this might look like long term for the entire globe. The largest outbreak outside of China as of mid February actually happened on the Diamond Princess cruise ship anchored in Japan and so the initial response was really to ramp up. Screening companies prevented people who'd recently traveled to Asia from boarding ships. All over the world Said they were cleaning more often and doing health screening of passengers before boarding. But as we know. Those measures were not enough to prevent dozens of outbreaks on cruise ships across the world and as the virus spread It it definitely spread through cruise ships globally And I think many of our listeners will probably remember the panic and getting people off of cruise ships and what that was like but what people may not realize is that many crew members have since then been in limbo and been on these ships. Why are these crew members still stuck at sea? Yeah so the. The cruise industry finally decided to halt operations on March Thirteenth. After repeated outbreaks on cruise ships. And you're right after that it was a scramble to get ships back into port. Country denied those ships So here in South Florida. We sort of became a safe haven. For some of these ships and saw a lot of passengers getting disembarked and repatriated here in south Florida but yes crew members largely remained on board. The Industry Really Thought on March thirteenth. That they were only going to be pausing operations for a month for thirty days. And so they even brought more crew on. You know sent some home but brought more on in that month and then when it became clear that the industry would be shut down for much longer than thirty days They were really stuck in the situation of ramped up travel restrictions across the world. An incredible cost of getting all these people home. And so yes. We've seen now. You know two months after that initial shutdown that thousands of crew members are still stuck on board without much reliable information about when they're going to be going home. Oh my goodness and do you have actual numbers on that. Do you know how many crew members have been affected by covid nineteen? Yeah so we're at the Miami Herald where we're actually tracking the number of positive cases linked to cruise ships and the number of deaths. And we know that at least five hundred crew members have tested positive since the industry down on March Thirteen points. At least seven have died. You mentioned that it's been tricky trying to figure out how to repatriate. All of these crew members tell us who who works on these ships. Where are these crew members from? So most crew members are are not. Us citizens are are international. Crew and a lot of them are from the Philippines. That's a really big nationality for crew members also Indonesia and India but yes they come from over one hundred countries and so these companies are navigating travel restrictions. That range from you know still open for commercial flights to Not Allowing under any circumstances crew members to return and those travel restrictions are changing. And so it's been sort of a logistical nightmare. But meanwhile you know these these people remain on the ships and are just waiting for news about when they'll be able to see their families again and Taylor you have been in touch with many crew members for your reporting. What are you hearing from them? Howard how are they doing? The ones I'm in touch with are are not doing well They're just really really Desperate more than anything for transparency and reliable information about exactly what their company and government are doing to get them out of this situation A lot of them have been told repeatedly that they'll be flying home on on one day only to see that date canceled and this happened. You know five six seven times and so it's it's really It's really wearing on them and it's a difficult situation. I mean they're they're no longer being paid They are not able to leave and A lot of them are are worried about their families at home. And and just really want to Get there to be with them during this difficult time Taylor. You said they're no longer being paid. They're not being treated as paid working influences at the moment. No there are a certain number of crew on each ship that are working Even even the mega ships require at lea- around one hundred people to operate them when they're not in full full cruising mode But but most of the rest have been relieved of their contracts and so are no longer being paid some companies are paying Like Royal Caribbean for example is paying giving what they're calling goodwill payments to crew of about thirteen dollars a day but crew. Tell me that they're having to spend most of that on Toiletries and other supplies on board. Oh Gosh and you've also reported that there been a few apparent suicides connected to this right. Yeah it's as as with any suicide you know. It's difficult to to know the circumstances but we know of few Instances during this time since the industry has shut down where where crew members have committed suicide. Yes Now because these cruise ships are often operating in international waters who regulates them and do do any labor laws apply that could helpful to these crew members so It US Labor. Law does not apply because these are while while all of the cruise companies are headquartered in south Florida there inc and other countries and then their ships are flagged too often another country and so the sort of international body that regulates this is the Internet International Labor Organization And they've come up with recommendations for shipping companies on how they should be treating employees during this time but the enforcement falls to the flag state in a lot of Cruise ships are registered in the Bahamas. So that would be one for example or Malta's another popular one but we haven't so far seen any Any big oversight when it comes to the the payment issue there for example But it is sort of a patchwork of laws you have the the ship's flag state. Then you have these international groups associated with the UN. Then you have where the ship is based and so. It's often difficult to tell. What's the role of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in a situation like this? Do they have any role? Yeah they definitely do and they have Stepped up their their oversight. I would say during during this time whenever the ship is in. Us WATERS CDC. Rules applied to how it how it operates. And so they've come up with strict protocols for how companies can disembark and repatriate crew since mid April. On they've been requiring that repatriation to happen on private transportation. Which is caused a rub with some of these companies who are not seeing any revenue now have to charter flights for thousands of people to go home but they are. They're definitely taking I. I would say a stepped up approach to oversight here and I'm sure they'll be involved in drafting protocols for win when cruises start up again. Yeah and last I heard at least carnival. Cruise lines is thinking about how to start up again at the end of the summer. What are you hearing from from these cruising companies? In what are you hearing from crew members about what it will mean to start up again yeah? Most cruise companies have decided to cancel cruises through July. Which is the CDC has actually banned cruising in the US through at least July twenty fourth. So so we're looking at August. I possibly to start. And while none of the companies have come up with protocols publicly about what they'll do they've all said that cruising we'll definitely look look different crew members that I'm in touch with are really just hoping to get home And are hoping to get back to work you know once. They're able to Reunite with their families and recover from this. But I think we can. We can be sure that cruising is going to look a lot different. You know the same kind of changes. We're seeing on land. We'll definitely There to mass social distancing etc. Those things seem like they would be very different though on the confines of cruise ship. I mean what? What are some other changes that are being talked about that could considerably change what the cruise industry looks like? Yeah definitely Doctors and infectious disease experts. Say That Cruise ships are incredibly dangerous environments for This virus is spread comparible to nursing homes and prisons and other long-term combined environments and so You know disinfecting will be really important I've talked to experts who recommend that ships not Not Go on. Voyages at full capacity so maybe consider filling just half of the ship with with passengers that they not go too far away from land at anytime to always have a land hospital available on because cruise-ship infirmaries typically only have capabilities to treat one person in critical condition one sort of ICU. Ventilator Situation And so those are some of the things that are being floated but we we don't know yet what these companies will do. I would think that one of the things that this has highlighted is the fact that when you're working with an international crew on international waters in a situation like this which is unprecedented What should happen to those people? Are there any considerations and changes to labor laws that could affect how crew members might be able to travel home in a situation? Like this if it happens again. Yeah it's an it's an interesting discussion. I haven't heard of anything in the works but we have actually seen late last week. A maritime attorney here in in Miami filed a A petition for emergency relief from a federal the federal court here To to get these people basically asking a federal judge to to order the companies to send these crew home as soon as possible and Other attorneys I've talked to. You know agree that this is a long shot. It's not clear if if a federal court in the US has any sort of standing even though these ships are in US waters often docked in us. Sports you know they. They do operate Under foreign flags and and have international crew but You know people are are really desperate at this point. So that's an example of one effort to try and get a federal judge to try and intervene citing the the humanitarian crisis here Taylor Dolphin is a business reporter covering tourism for the Miami Herald. Taylor thank you for your reporting. Thanks for coming on the show. Thanks so much for having me. We heard from many of you about foiled. Summer travel plans for a lot of us. It's up to books to take far away the summer and we have some recommendations for you. Courtesy of constants grading book critic for Vox Constants. It's great to have you with us. It's great to be here. Thank you so much so I made the mistake of trying to read some nonfiction in the early weeks of lockdown and boy my brain was just asking to be taken away somewhere in your view. What makes a book a great escape? There are two things that you want in an escape book. He want this really driving for narrative that will keep you reading and make it feel like it's just purely fun and never homework but I'm also a little bit of a snob. Because they have to be book critic so I always want in my escape to have beautiful beautiful sentences so I never get distracted by thinking. Oh well that's a little bit clunky I think to be the perfect escape book. Good writing and strong storytelling exactly okay. So let's start. You brought a list. Let's start at the top. Tell us about the enchanted April. This is a really lovely but from nineteen twenty two by Elizabeth von Karman. It's about a bunch of Middle Age. British ladies who get sick of taking care of there has been so they all decide together to just up and go off on vacation together to an Italian island for a month. There's lots of description of wisteria growing everywhere. And they're sitting on the terrorists drinking cocktails. It's just delightful so that sounds pretty classic in a lot of ways the next pick on your list is it seems a very different kind of story. Tell us why you loved the vanishing half. Oh Gosh I love this book. It comes out next week on Tuesday by Bennett. Who brought the mothers her debut novel? Which came out a couple of years ago? It is so rich and so interesting. It's about two twin sisters growing up in a small town in the south. The town is all black and everyone in. It is devoted to making sure that each successive generation of residents has later skin. These two twin sisters run away from the town one of them begins passing for white and the other one Mary's darker skinned man and has a darker skin child. It's so rich and interesting and the writing is just beautiful. I keep nothing as I read to. Just sort of luxury. The sentences now. I WanNa read the headline of the review that you wrote for your next Book Pick. You wrote Gideon. The ninth is about Lesbian Neck. Romances in space. Obviously it's perfect. So the tagline on this book is Lesbian Akron Series in space. It really. It's so much more than that. It's this gothic fantasy. The pros is just velvety. There's this incredibly involved mystery plot that I can never figure out There's a romance I cried at the end. It's a fantastic book. The Sequel Herald the ninth comes out in August. Does it remind you of anything if you could guide our listeners? If you like this if you like X. You might like this book. It's not really a space opera type book the way you might think of like a star wars story. It's more magic. That happens to happen in space so I think the closest thing would probably be like a little bit game of thrones but fewer terrible terrible people. Okay well let's go onto the next pick. We are back to the theme of sisters but this is a very different backdrop than the American south. Tell us about the seamstress so this is a beautiful beautiful book by Francis Dupont. His People's it's about two sisters a nineteen thirty th Brazil both of them are great seamstresses but one of them ends up marrying rich and the other becomes an outlaw. Got This really really mark fast narrative that just pushes you all the way through and it's all powered by the fraught relationship between the two sisters. Now let's turn to queen of the night which gives us a little bit of history little bit. What makes this book great escape for you man? So this is by Alexander Chee. He's a literary novelist who got a lot of claims for his first novel. Edinburgh which is very spare and grounded in realism Queen of the night. It's not that it's one of these books where every emotion is really outsides. Operatic because mostly it's about an opera singer who is in Paris at the end of the nineteenth century and second empire France. So there's lots of opulent descriptions of all these ornate clothing and furnishings and everything is very over the top and happening at like level ten all times. It's very easy to get mom. Okay next on your list to novels that have cities very front and center city of girls by Elizabeth Gilbert and the city. We became by n Que Jemison so tell us why these major list. They're wonderful. They're both New York books. They're both very joyous. And and really compelling. Cd of girls is a historical novel. Set in the nineteen forties at a rundown vaudeville theatre. It's read like drinking a glass of you. Just want to guzzle. It down. City became science fiction by the Hugo Witter K. Jonathan the premise is that New York city is coming to life and each borough is represented by different Avatar and they have to team up together to save the city from reactionary politics and racism. And it's just so much fun to read so constants before we let you go what has been the most surprisingly exciting soothing or even distracting book for you during this time beyond. What's on this list already? Oh man well. I'm someone who in times of deep deep stress. I always think the best thing to read as a how to guide by a control freak. The it'll really give some of like the world is under control their like rules and regulations that you can learn and follow so a book that I find very soothing in this time is a housekeeping manual by Cheryl Mendelson called home comforts. Like she will tell you. Exactly how many inches you need to turn down your seats. When you're making your bed you OUGHTA is. This is a modern manual. Yes it came out in. I think two thousand five and then updated a few times. I believe so. She'll she's up to date on all of the latest technology and she will tell you exactly what to do with everything. Wow okay tell us. Tell us a couple of habits. in new things you've picked up from this housekeeping manual. That are giving you comfort at this time so I actually very rarely do things in the book. It's just about reading it. Yeah Yeah it makes me feel sort of grounded and it's like you know what this woman has her environment under complete control there is ordering the universe somewhere when you are not reading fiction books. Do you have favorite nonfiction books that you like to turn to at a time like this? Yes I think another one for me is this. Nf Kate Fisher. Book of essays called a Cook. The both She was a food writer in the mid century. She's probably one of the best pro silence in American letters and it was the book she wrote about cooking during World War. Two first of all when their rations things that are scarce but also just getting comfort from her food in a time of terror and stress. And it's really grounded and really visceral and she's just a lovely lovely raider into able to make the food very Bachayev and really grounded in physical senses. Constance Grady is the book critic for Vox and the host of the. Vox Book Club which you can find it. Box Dot com slash book club constants. Thank you so much for being here with us. Thank you so much for having me. Okay everyone that's it for us today you can find. Constants is full list of book recommendations including a few that. We didn't get to talk about today at the takeaway dot org and of course you can call us at anytime about anything at eight seven seven eight my take or send us a tweet at the takeaway. Thank you so much for being with us. I'm Shumita Basu and this is the takeaway. I'll see you tomorrow.

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COVID-19 Protesters: A Look at the American Legacy of Demanding Freedom at the Expense of Others 2020-05-07

The Takeaway

55:09 min | 1 year ago

COVID-19 Protesters: A Look at the American Legacy of Demanding Freedom at the Expense of Others 2020-05-07

"The people protesting around the country are demanding states reopen. Even though the data shows it will affect our most vulnerable communities. It's important to be careful when we began to talk about individual rights when it ultimately comes at the expense of someone else's rights or even the individual freedom when it comes at the expense of someone else's a freedom. I'm Shumita Basu. In for Tanzania Vega and today on the takeaway Thursday may seventh. We break down the racial history of choosing individual freedom over community health then. How kids are struggling during the pandemic and how we can help absolutely. We need to talk to our children. Even our young children and that's sometimes a hard conversation because as adults we may have our own stress and distress with this and we hear from the experts themselves. Hi My name is Colin. I live on Long Island. The hardest thing about the quarantine is not seeing my friends and the best part about the porn team is not going outside and going to school that I'm nine years old round out the show by hearing from musicians in Missouri where the governor has deemed. Concert venues can reopen all that and more. Let's get to it last weeks now. Small groups of protesters across the country have been calling for an end to state shutdowns and covert Nineteen government oversight last week protesters in Lansing Michigan stormed the Capitol building and demanded to be let into the House Chambers as legislators deliberated extending their state shut down many of these protesters were carrying assault rifles wearing tactical gear some were holding images of confederate flags swastikas and nooses. While some including Michigan Governor Gretchen. Whitmer HAVE SAID. These PROTESTS ARE FUELED BY RACISM. The protesters themselves say they're fighting for their individual rights. Here's Protester Joni George in Lansing. There's people that are compromised. Immune wise people that are older weaker and they can't take it free to sign their homes. That's what freedom is. This isn't freedom. But what kind of freedom is it when it comes at the expense of others? That's the question Abram X. Candy asked in a recent article he wrote for the Atlantic. Abram is the director of the anti-racist Research and Policy Center American University in the United States Black and Brown communities have experienced higher numbers of Kobe nineteen cases and deaths than white communities the freedom. These protesters are calling for could increase the spread of the virus and further this viral disparity either Mex- candy and Kisha Blaine a w. e. b. do boys fellow at Harvard University and an associate professor of history at the University of Pittsburgh. Joined us to talk about this. Abram said that the legacy of choosing individual freedom over community health can be traced back to the psyche of slaveholders slaveholders. Wanted to live in a state where they had the freedom as individuals to not only enslaved people but to disenfranchise people to exploit people to impoverished people to rate people and on down the line and they felt any restriction on that ability to enslave to disenfranchise to even kill was a restriction on their freedom and they spoke about it in the in that way and ended up succeeding from the Union because they felt the union was not providing them with their freedom and I contrast that more individual freedom with community freedom which is the freedom of of enslaved people from slavery or a community from disenchant FIS men or from exploitation of poverty and and this freedom from is more or less freedom from harm a freedom from even harm of of those individuals who do not care about the the the lives of the rest of us in what the freedom like now even to infect us Kisha through history when we have seen this mentality of prioritizing individual freedom and state's what has been the result of that and the impact of that on black and Brown communities specifically the result has been catastrophic in fact as we all know we fought an entire war Because of this very argument people will say that. The civil war was ultimately fought to protect states' rights yet. As Abram pointed out when we really get to the heart of the matter it was a question of. How do you protect states' rights when the rights that states are demanding or the rights to keep black people in slate if we went down the line of states rights and if we allowed slaveholders to ultimately have their way I would be enslaved today And so in the end. I think it's important to be careful when we began to talk about individual rights when it ultimately comes at the expense of someone else's rights or even the individual freedom when it comes at the expense of someone else's a Abram. My WanNa connect some of those ideas to what's happening today to the protests that were seeing people who adamantly want things to reopen again when protesters today are saying that they are fighting for their freedom. What do you think that they mean by that? I believe they. They're saying their freedom to the freedom to harm which essentially means the freedom to infect that and and I think they're I'm really seeking to contrast them with other Americans who recognize that if we open states back up then the likelihood of social distancing of course declines than the the likelihood that more people are infected and even die rises but these individuals aren't thinking about what's best for the community. They're only really thinking about what's best for themselves even if their actions even if these states reopening will harm community Abram in your piece in the Atlantic you said that the individual freedoms these protesters want could come at the expense of not just the community at large but specifically black and brown communities. Can you talk about the disproportionate impact of this outbreak on black and Brown communities? Sure so last I checked about. Eighteen states have already reopened about sixteen of those eighteen states. They they'll states have released racial demographic data of those sixteen states. Thirteen of those states. S- thirteen of those sixteen states where we have racial demographic data that have reopened. People of color are suffering disproportionate harm from Kobe. Nineteen meeting according to the Racial Data. People of color are more likely to be infected and or more likely to have been killed by Kobe. Nineteen and especially black people and so to give an example in Alabama black people comprise about forty three point. Five one percent of the krona virus cases and another forty five percent of the deaths but only about twenty seven percent of the population and racial disparity is indicative of what's happening in Mississippi and Tennessee in Colorado and South Carolina as well as Georgia. All of these are all states that have reopened. There's also states like Utah which Latina ex people are fourteen percent of the population but thirty six percent of the krona virus cases. Or even Idaho where the death disparity among native Hawaiians the highest in any group or even Wyoming Native Americans make up two point seven percent of the state but eighteen percent of the cases Corona virus cases. So these racial disparities are are pervasive in the dairy states. That have Oakland last week in Oregon. Hundreds of protesters gathered at the state capital. Some of them were carrying rifles with seen at some of these protests imagery of confederate flags even swastikas and nooses. Kisha are we seeing any similar protests armed protests against shutdowns in other countries or is this a uniquely American thing it it seems to be a uniquely American. I am not aware of armed protesters in the same fashion. I'm certainly aware that they are protests. Happening across the globe I was reading even this week about several different protests happening in Italy and as we know they have been established by Kobe. Nineteen and I notice for example. Hundreds of business owners. Those who owned restaurants in particular and bought restaurants and bars decided to out turn on their lights at a particular mom and turn off their lights at another moment as sort of symbolic gesture gesture I mean so all of these things are protests Whether people are protesting this day at home laws or whether people are protesting others are protesting even the efforts to open up Italy. That's a very different kind of discourse I think and a very different kind of response if we are talking about stay at home orders and if there is resistance to People staying at home in this moment in order to you know in order to ensure that the corner virus does not spread further. Then why would a group of people show up at the state capital in Lansing Michigan With guns what does this have anything to do with the corner virus? It's obvious that if you're showing up with with guns you're showing up To intimidate your showing up to ultimately terrify individuals. And it's not surprising that these guns appear at the very same moment that we also see people with confederate flags we see people with swastikas with nooses. All of these are connected and so once again. What's happening is in this moment. People call upon the First Amendment and they call up on the second amendment. They use these as covers to try to explain away why they are. In fact engaging practices that are intended to terrorise hoops of individuals? And so that is exactly. I think what's happening with this and is also telling that they're showing up also without any facemask Which innovate self is sending? Another message about the ways that they don't necessarily see call the nineteen as a threat to themselves clearly because they're not even following a recommendations that are given by the CDC so so again corona virus becomes the cover a second amendment claims become the cover even even First Amendment claims. Be become the cover but in the end what you're finding at least in the case of of Lansing Michigan. Quite frankly or a group of of of white supremacists many of them. Who who want to interrogate an and want to intimidate people with these guns Abram I want to give you the last word here it sounds like what you're saying is the very concept of freedom means something entirely different two different groups of Americans and that that distinction is drawn across racial lines. So where does that leave us? In a country that has largely centered. Its identity on the concept of freedom however flawed that might be. I think we're where leaves. is a recognition that even something as basic our lease seemingly basic as the concept of freedom has always been highly sort of our contentious. And I I know the enslave her. In the enslave had completely different conceptions of freedom and that psyche of the slave holder that any restriction on their individual ability to do what they want even if those restrictions are preventing them from harming other people that that is away their freedoms that psyche. That idea I think lives on to this day. And so that's how you have for instance black people who are protesting against the ability. The freedom for police officers to shoot in murder or even a regular citizen to shoot in murder anyone who they fear they want that freedom. We're saying no. You cannot have that freedom. You should not have the freedom to harm people indiscriminately in the way. Slaveholders did and and so. I think that this is something that I think. Americans have been fighting over. The very notion of freedom from the beginning either. Mex- Candy is the director of the anti-racist Research and Policy Center at American University and a contributor to the Atlantic and Kisha Lane is a w. e. d. boys fellow at Harvard University and an associate professor of history at the University of Pittsburgh. Thank you both very much for joining us. Thank you for having. Although not as many children seemed to be getting gravely ill from the krona virus. They aren't immune to the psychological effects of the crisis but systemic racism and inequality is making this pandemic even more difficult for kids in marginalized communities increased racism involving such as worrying about once fiscal safety when wearing a mosque which is highly relevant concern for black communities or the lack of resources for example poor quality health care for poor families or no healthcare for undocumented immigrants or educational inequalities including whether family has a device or even a quiet dedicated space for successful on schooling or an adult in the home was able to facilitate homeschooling. That's Chris Chia a professor of psychology at the University of Maryland. Baltimore County but all of the kids in our lives are being psychologically affected by this experience to help us understand this and what we can do to make this a little easier for them. I spoke with Garissa. Along with Robin Gurwitch a psychologist and professor at Duke University Medical Center specializing in children and families. I asked Robyn to explain what we know from. Past events like September eleventh and Hurricane Katrina about how young people are affected by crises so when children are overly stressed it impacts their behavior. So you're going to see. Some behavior changes your. It's going to affect their emotions in so there's a whole range of motions. It's going to affect how their bodies feel so they may have more headaches or stomach aches. What many people are probably seeing now with Kobe? Nineteen terms of behavior. Depending on the age younger children may be more clingy and more needy than usual have more temper tantrums in meltdowns get older. You may notice that they become a little bit more irritable they may have a harder time with focus and concentration and even being able to remember tours that they would normally be doing without any problem. So there's a whole range that we will see in children who are feeling incredibly stressed. And now that we're a few months into this pandemic. Some parents have probably started to talk with their kids. About what's going on. Should they be doing that? Should they keep doing that What kind of guidance do you have for them? The answer honestly from everything we know is absolutely. We need to talk to our children even our young children. And that's sometimes a hard conversation because you dull we may have our own stress and distress with this So the conversation can be as simple as we've been staying at home because of Corona virus. Talk About Cova. Tell me what you think about this. That gives adults in idea of where their children or teenagers are starting from. What do they know so it allows us to correct misinformation misperceptions than that honestly with? How is this making you feel and you will see anything from. I love being home with you all the time from your four year old all the way up to feelings of worry and anxiety and stress. How do you tackle the uncertainty of this moment of the timeline? Of what comes next. That is what makes Cova nineteen very unique. We don't have a time line. I can't how you. On June twenty-first everything will be great. I wish I could so I think the best thing we can do is when we talk to our children. We can let them know. Things are changing in a big things. Change I'll make sure I'll let you know for now. Here's what we're doing. Here's what's happening in our communion our family. Here's what's happening in our community but also give children away. They can do something. That's also important to children's resilience. It may be as simple as helping to prepare meal for the family. Or if you're baking to deliver adore drop of cookies to a neighbor next door. Children may have lots of different ways that they may want to contribute to helping and it's important to listen to their ideas and support that Chris. Oh we've talked on this program about the stresses that parents are facing right now. What do we know about what parents might be inadvertently passing onto their kids especially after being isolated and at home together children look to parents for signs of whether they should be anxious they should be fearful whether they should be distress? And so an important thing that we tried to tell. Parents is also like how you're managing yourself in your stress is sometimes a model for how children might be doing. The same. Might be coping with that as well. You can have this indirect way through children looking to parents for different strategies and approaches but also if parents are anxious and stress. They might be more likely to create a stressful home climate or environment. That's may be more chaotic. Maybe less structured than what children need to thrive on and so there are those ways as well and you know for. Some parents may be there watching a lot of news and you know needing feel as if they need a lot of information in order to keep up with things but not being conscious that children might be also hearing and listening to these things to you know news at numbers in the way that they caught process. I know that you have been looking into. How minority communities might be impacted more acutely by trauma at a time like this. What are you learning one of the projects? I'm on focuses on the increase in xenophobia and racism targeting Asian Americans broadly. The particular project focuses on Chinese Americans but we know that anyone who appears as if they might be associated with an Asian background as being targeted as well during this period in some early preliminary findings from my study. I find that over. Eighty percent of the children aged ten to eighteen report having either experience or witness on line exit of discrimination targeting themselves or or same race or ethnicity at colby percent. Yes witness at least one instance and some you know multiple more than that. This is I think the first set of data that's showing from children's report with incumbent nineteen of of witnessing or experiencing discrimination and it is on one hand not surprising because people have been talking about it on the other hand. It's quite distressing. Obviously so what can parents and loving adults in the lives of these children who are witnessing and and feeling the effects of discrimination what can adults in their lives talk to them about what would be helpful. Sometimes parents wanting to protect their children might avoid discussing issues particularly issues are about race and race relations in the US which for many parents are is an uncomfortable topic for them themselves in particular if they are let's say first generation immigrants and don't themselves have or believe they have a good understanding of these issues and so some parents might want to protect children and say that while Free. Just keep our heads down work hard. Just focus on what needs to be done. That's the best approach. But the research consistently shows that talking to children's so engaging in what we call racial ethnic or cultural socialization appears to have a lot of benefits for children and so this broader construct of cultural socialization includes talking to children about their culture and you know serve their their history which has been shown to increase ethnic racial pride and children which is protective factor but there are other aspects that include on preparing children for bias preparing children for the discrimination that they will inevitably experience in their lives made also includes more direct discussions about it and so we tell parents that especially in a situation like this where we see that children over eighty percent are witnessing some forms of discrimination or xenophobia that proactively engaging children added developmentally appropriate level about what they might experience about what might be going on but also importantly making sure that they have to tools in order to address some of this what they should do if this happened to them rather than just increasing their vigilance and anxiety without giving them a sense that they might have some control over what they should do if this ever happened to them or if they've witnessed it happening to someone else to care about as we go through this one of the questions for caring and loving adults to ask themselves. What's one value? What's some beliefs that we hope to foster instill grow in our children because while there is the xenophobia? Racism with Asian Americans were also seeing yet toward African Americans in anti-semitism is on the rise. So what's one value that you want to leave your children with that they can learn from this? How do we practice kindness towards each other? How do we make sure that what do I do if I see somebody saying something mean about one of my friends so as parents talk about difficult topics you're also setting incredible groundwork if my mom died grandma? Whoever that loving caring adult for them is willing to talk about the difficult topics? Now whether it's Cova da whether it's racism other things because they're talking to me about it and they're encouraging me to ask questions or tell them my experiences. You're setting the groundwork that I can come back whether it's peer pressure or whether it's bullying or whether it is other kinds of intense feelings of disappointment I can talk to my caring adult 'cause they will talk about the tough stuff. Robin is a psychologist and professor at Duke University Medical Center specializing in children and families and Chris. Chia is a professor of psychology at the University of Maryland. Baltimore County now. We continue talking about how kids are doing during this moment by talking to well the experts themselves. I'm Calvin and I live in guilty. It s thing. Is that like easier but did that thing is. You can't feel fun My Name's Charlotte. I'm from Dallas Texas and I'm twelve years old quarantine can be really fun and really difficult. It is really fun because it kind of already feels like summer vacation. I get more time to spend with my family but also quarantining has been hard because half of my family's quarantining somewhere from Raynham Massachusetts. I'm in fifth grade. The best thing about being home is getting to be on a computer all day and feel important. The worst thing is having to deal with my older sister sometimes. She makes lights for no reason. And that's a pain. My name is Cohen. I live on Long Island in the hardest thing about the quarantine is not seeing my friends and the best part of the quarantine is not going outside and going to school. That's I'm nine years old time. My name is Sophia and I am five years old. I Live and same how Oregon I am just still bore like can't play at school and my best friend is. Clarisa and I can't play over longer anymore. That you've been Reggie bike that I've been the On learn to ride my bag with no train mill sky names. The white I live in Anchorage Alaska the best part about being in quarantine is I get to work. Be Left alone. Read draws what. She's you also get to eat a lawsuit. The worst part is I'm an extrovert and I can't see my friend. I can only my friends over. Zun called not the same. Hi My name is Eliana. Look back from Yorktown C. Or some of the things I really like about being home is that I get to play with my brother. A lot and play with my mom a couple of things. I don't like about staying home. A lot is I can't go to my friends and play outside with them. I was to go middle school so now I don't even know if I can start for middle school also. My Dad works at a hospital so I can't really see him a loss during the day. Hi I'm Paul Richard Johnson. I live in move from Kentucky and I like. I like to sleep in what I like to do and I don't I don't like to do work. I'm seven years old. My name's torn I'M FROM CHARLOTTE NC. And my the best thing is playing with my dog in the worst thing is not having a variety. My my name is Owen. I'm eleven years old and I'm from Wilmington Delaware and the best part about being home is not being in school and like just kind of like playing around in the worst part is I have always doing homework and stuff from home and it's kind of hard because my teacher can't really help me from home as much as she can in person thank you. Hi My all olive and I am from sensory to New York. I am six years old. The best thing about being home so much is I get to be with my family. The hardest things are not being able to be my teacher friends. There was a definite trend in all the calls. We got kids are really missing their friends. Dr Robin Gurwitch. The psychologist we heard from a few minutes ago told us that when kids missed that peer interaction it can provoke anxiety and anger so get creative with solutions. She said especially with younger kids. She suggests multiplayer online games organizing dry birthday parties or starting an art project to share. Virtually with friends. Or even just with your siblings. My name is Eli. I'm eleven in the fifth grade and I live in Washington. Dc My name is bay. Im seven I am in Texas Great. I live in Washington. Dc Eli and Bayer are brother and sister who told us about taking on a unique project while stuck at home so we made a korn teen coloring book. Well actually base started and they told us about some of what they drew is called what you do with friends during the Corentin. And one of the friends sitting in a chair with a with a computer on it and One of the friends saying I wish we could see each other in person and the other France had. Yeah me too. And so there's a barn background and there's a chicken laying egg and the egg. It comes out in the face mask on so it's kind of funny and the sun there's a son and it's wearing a frowny face and in its mouth is a thermometer so it has a fever And in the pond in the background. There's only one duck. So the ducks are social. Distancing didn't know ducks Kanga could win nineteen but still when you look at these pictures. Like how do they make you feel? I read this article. Read the title of the article in the newspaper and it said sometimes you need a laugh through dark time and so this is kind of about that. Luckily I think I think that's good too. You can see some pictures of the quarantine coloring book on our website the takeaway dot org kids. We want to know how you're thinking and feeling right now and parents. How are your kids making sense of this moment? You can call us anytime at eight. Seven seven eight. My take and a huge. Thank you to the many many kids who have called us about their time. At home we have a lot more of your calls in our podcast and online at the takeaway dot org really appreciate you sharing. We loved hearing every one of your thoughts. This is the takeaway you're listening to the takeaway. I'm Shumita Basu. We just heard about the challenges. Kids are facing during locked down here in the United States and pretty much everywhere. Kids have been cooped up in their homes but it's been an especially longtime for children in Spain. The country was struck particularly hard by nineteen as of Wednesday. Spain had more than two hundred twenty thousand confirmed cases and around twenty six thousand deaths and while some have criticized the Spanish government for being slow to act. They did eventually put in place. One of the strictest lockdown orders in the world but in recent weeks the Spanish government has taken steps to loosen some of those restrictions. Cafes and restaurants can now reopen although only for delivery and just last week children under the age of fourteen were allowed. Go outside for the first time in six weeks. Linda Freund is a multimedia journalist based in Barcelona and the Co host of the checkpoint a podcast about parenting in a pandemic. She's been following the situation closely while also caring for her six year. Old Son Linda. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me so your son whose name is rs. Right. That's right. What was it like for Arias to finally go outside again? It's an interesting question because I think what we're really seeing amongst children here. Is this sort of dissonance. Emerging so he was endorsed for six weeks along with seven million other children across Spain who were basically invisible overnight set inside seen not heard it was really an adult centric. Approach TO VIRUS. Containment here We have no patio. We have no outdoor space so he would basically run in circles in the living room and at times soak up some sun from an open window. It was difficult but the fact is we thought. Once we got that first news he could go outside again that he would be jumping for joy but he wasn't so sure about it when he got through the front door. He had his little mask on He he did skip initially and then he quickly stopped only looked around and I think because the outside looks very different and and we as adults doing the shopping going off for essential reasons We have become habituated to close storefronts the empty streets but he saw that Quiet and so I asked him. Are you excited right? And he said yes. No I suppo- why he said you know why Mommy right like. Don't ask me a stupid question. Poll but I WANNA point out this dissidence. It's it's quite clear for kids. I mean for weeks. We were justifying being inside by telling him you know Mr and Mrs Corona Virus. They're out there. We don't WanNa let him get into the house. We need to stay healthy. Wash your hands and then overnight it's like hey let's go for a bike ride. Get some fresh air of so. The transition has been a difficult one. Initially many parents here were actually offering their kids toys just so they would go for that initial walk to help them muscles through that initial fear but now seating more than a week later is kids are giggling again. They're scoring in the street. They're smiling albeit at a distance. But we're seeing some of that life return and the comfort level return as well. Have you noticed any changes in your son's behavior? Since the pandemic I started absolutely I mean who wouldn't of course when you keep a kid cooped up and all of a sudden right. He is separated from his friends. He saddled with more homework than ever before more. Holistically what is he in first grade or second hand yes six years old Berkeley all of his friends. What he said to be the other day I thought was so interesting. Said Mommy. It's like all of a sudden. All my friends are stuck in the computer screen. It's like they all shrunk. I thought about that and how kids are perceiving this. He's so used to just kids like to be with each other. I mean that is play. It's not necessarily this kind of high level conversation it's about being in each other's presence and when that is taken away or done through this kind of medium they're presented they're not presented at scale. I should say that that can can warp things a bit. You know allowing children back outside is just one way that the Spanish government is relaxing. Their lockdown measures. What other steps is the country taking right now to sort of ease out of lockdown? Well we are in what's called essentially phase zero so we have a multi tiered multi phase system and the reopening plan here in Spain. I think the name itself is pretty interesting is translates as planned for the transition towards a new normality which like first of all. I like the word normal. Should be retired right now. That might be right. Yeah I read. It just doesn't doesn't work anymore. But basically we're in phase zero so yesterday I was walking through the streets and I almost lost my breath because I saw barber shop open and people were cutting hair again People were taking appointments. There were some stores open with people who had had appointments waiting in lines outside to get articles of clothing so that's phase zero now depending on the numbers and it is going to vary based on provinces and autonomous regions. Catalonia's asking for a slower. Reopening has pushing to move into phase one like asap for economic reasons but in those two regions have been hit. Perhaps the hardest right Madrid and Catalonia. Its bid especially absolutely So if all goes as planned and we'll see there are definitely debates in government about timing. If all goes plan the de escalation for phase one would start on Sunday with small businesses reopening at thirty percent capacity restaurants at fifty percent capacity. And what's most interesting for me? Is that funerals and wakes will now be able to accommodate fifteen people because before it was limited to only three or in Madrid for a stretch. They were doing a lot of teleconferencing or there was one. Priest I recall was offering drive through funerals. No two minutes each and I think what people really need with was more than twenty five thousand deaths here over. The past. Few months is a chance to grieve together. A chance to share space even if at a social distance and just taken the gravity of everything and have Spaniards for the most part. Really been sticking to the lockdown. That is a loaded question I have witnessed personally. Both I have witnessed a number of people who have worn mass who have strictly kept their social distance. Who have been very good about only leaving when they absolutely need it. I've also seen people who go to the market just for a stick of butter I've seen and heard people in my hallways coming from a party. Who are you know a bit? Neabry aided So it definitely is a mixed like anywhere but you know what's interesting about that is you can really Get your answer from the numbers. So if we look at the police activity since the lockdown which was incredibly strict more than thirty five thousand people were fined and two hundred thirty five arrested on the weekend of May third when people were first allowed out so these are people who are maybe talking too closely going further from home than allow throwing parties though there is still some interplay between government and individuals and there are still some fines being administered. What's what are experts saying about why? Spain has been hit so hard compared to other countries in Europe. There's a mix of reasons though. Frankly we're learning new things about this virus every day but there is a large Grandfather Grandmother Elderly Population here. And in fact what makes Spain so wonderful. Is that families operate like a village. Grandparents are helping with the carrying of children picking them up from school which also puts them in a vulnerable position. Missed on how. The virus transmits. I mean as many doctors have said unfortunately children have become these vectors of contagion in this scenario so we see the older population of which there is a large amount disproportionately affected. You've mentioned that you have referred to what's happening right now to your son. You've called it. Mr and Mrs Corona virus are there and we need to not have them come in What other language are you using? And how are you thinking about talking to your six year old right now? I think the key thing to remember during this period and one thing that Co host Anna Cunningham and I really dedicate time to in our podcast is that kids are going to have a lot of questions right now and the key is just to listen to their questions. Listen to their approaches to everything and take the time even though credibly stressed out and overwhelmed. Even though if you're anything like me you've probably found yourself in a fetal position or sneaking chocolate too many times but but that this is the opportunity to have some of those very serious conversations because they hear hear everything you know the other day at Bedtime I think this was actually in April early April Win. The numbers were peaking here and every night we would hear sirens From our windows and mind you. We don't live near a hospital and our son was making the association and he actually said to his dad at Bedtime. I. I don't think I'm going to live old enough to decide if I WANNA have kids and whatnot. Yeah that was that was heavy and what that told me as he was. I mean he might have been testing it out the idea that he was internalizing the number of deaths there and I'm sorry he was internalizing the number of deaths here and what I realized is a parent when I was having conversations with my husband is that we're focusing so much on the death. Count the contagion rate. I'm sure he overheard. We could have been more careful about that. But we weren't focusing as much on those who were healing. We were focusing on the victories on the hero so we started to shift the conversation in the household because after all we are the gatekeepers of our household for our children. And so what we did is we mentioned a few friends who had been in the ICU. Friends that friends who knows and we started talking about how they have recovered. They're going. Some of them are going back to work there. Essential Workers Some of them are hugging their kids for two three days. Straight and that there are these moments of healing and there are these doctors working tyrus tirelessly to make things better to care for people and you know we could tell that he had really internalized that conversation. When the other day we were playing the game of life. Do you know the game of life. Oh sure closet you can be a winner at the game all right right. We were playing the game of life and he got to pick his profession and he chose doctor because he wants to help. People save people's lives win moment Yeah it's Nice I mean you you gotta take them where you can get these days. Let me ask you Linda. Do you think this experience of being at home and parenting in a pandemic is going to change the way that you parent moving forward It's a really good question It's interesting because I'm really operating day to day in survival mode so I haven't had that chance to take a step back and put things into context. I definitely think that I've become more appreciative of the lighter. Moments of the levity. Look at it is. We're raising the corona generation right. Our kids are glued to their screens. They're anxious they're scared. They're parents are anxious square and scared. They're also teaching US something. Pretty incredible defiant joy. They're teaching us how to find strength outta fine laughter in the darkest of times. I think I'll take that with me going forward that with every dark moment you can find some levity amid the challenges you can take a moment to laugh about the fact that you ask your conference call if they have to poop which happened to a friend of mine by the way but the fact is those lines are blurring now between everything in our lives right between the public and private life between the rich and the poor between the sick and the healthy. As those things blur. I think they're also is a blurring of struggle and joy and I think we can try to make out or carve out a place for ourselves as parents in both Linda. Freund is a multimedia journalist based in Barcelona and the Co host of the checkpoint a podcast about parenting in a pandemic Linda. Thank you for joining us. It was my pleasure back with you on the takeaway. I'm Shumita Basu. As businesses across the country slowly begin to reopen the live event industry is expected to be one of the last sectors to welcome the public back in but this week Missouri Governor. Mike Parson made his state the first to allow live events to resume as long as they comply with social distancing guidelines on Monday the same day. That the governor's decision went into effect. Missouri reported nearly four hundred new covert nineteen cases. That's the largest single-day increase for the state to date. Meanwhile mayors in Missouri's biggest cities Saint Louis and Kansas city or keeping their stay at home order in place until the middle of the month and music. Venue owners in those cities. Say It will likely be much longer until they can safely. Reopen Frost would be in Normandy which has three hundred people in the room. I can't even imagine when that's going to be possible. There's too many unknowns but I would expect the smart money would be maybe not this year. I'm Steve Palm. My wife kicked Kelsen. And I own off Broadway A in saint. Louis Missouri Steve's venue typically hosts Americana performers. They had their last show on March seventh and while off Broadway did receive a loan under the paycheck protection program. It's not enough especially since the business has generated no substantial revenue since it close to the public. Steve also says that if off Broadway were to reopen any time soon the venue couldn't stay profitable at a limited capacity and even if social distancing guidelines are eased soon in Missouri. He would still be in a bind. I guess I don't know what I'm going to do what we're going to do if were not comfortable with the level of safety. I think we're probably just not going to because it doesn't get us where we need to be with any sort of significant restrictions and if there are no restrictions then it certainly not safe in Columbia Missouri Cafe Berlin a restaurant and music venue is taking a similarly cautious approach to reopening their jobs. We need to open up the menu again at some point. But I think that it's really putting the The Carton of the Horse at this point. I'm Matthew Cook. I'm the talent buyer manager at Cafe Berlin and the executive director of Dismal Nitch Arts and the Columbia Experimental Music Festival cafe. Berlin's revenue comes from. Its restaurant and Matt says that starting live shows backup just won't make financial sense for the musicians. He typically books with the restrictions of limited capacity. I I don't think that it would be a profitable thing for anyone involved. And even if audiences were willing to return to shows many local musicians in the state wouldn't necessarily feel comfortable performing anytime soon the poll in Volpe's romantic spe in choosing my name's Molly Healey. I'm a violinist and cellist and guitar player also singer-songwriter out of Springfield Missouri. Right now. I would not feel comfortable going out and playing a show. It one of my favorite venues. You know to pack house just because if cases came out of that show it would be really hard to forgive myself for doing something like that and I think a lot of other musicians feel the same way like many musicians around the world molly has continued playing music through live streams. But the amount of money she's taking in bills performances is significantly lower than what she made before it just is not something that has brought in what. I used to make you know on a weekly basis or what I needed to make on a weekly basis to keep my house afloat and keep my daughter Fed and all that stuff. Molly has also found performing over. Live streams less creatively satisfying. It's better than nothing but you can't see the audience reaction or when you can't see those people dancing or smiling or whatever it is that you're wanting to elicit from that song it's just not the same that feeling was by another Missouri based musician. We spoke with a no. It's not the same as being in ruined with someone looking up reacting to them or hearing the different sound especially with the area. I spend a lot of time. Man Like experimental improvisation. There's a lot of dependency of keep bowl and the crowd reaction and making decisions of which direction ago in my name. Sanchez is from Saint. Louis performance the name eighteen encounter. Stan has been doing. Dj Sets and other musical performances over live streams for more than forty consecutive days now before Kovac nineteen about a third of stands. Income was coming from live shows and while today. He misses the energy of live audiences. He's also finding some positives to doing shows online. If I'm here in Saint Louis Plamondon shows doing my thing. You know the cities. Don't get to be there. They don't get the feel that so in this new livestream presence you kind of have a wider audience and in a way. It's more because people are listening to sound whether it's on their phone laptop their home stereo system whatever it is it's all personalized and having their own personal space now. Stan is more focused on keeping those virtual performances going then returning to in-person crowds. You know the transition back to live audiences is it's inevitable. I think but at this point I think it would have to. I would just have to be convinced that whatever. Venue is take precaution. And you know. And they're doing their half also I don't want to just die back in it just because the stay at home order. Save Them. Lifted be something a little more thoughtful a little more creative too not wanting to rush back into live. Performance was on the minds of everyone. We spoke with in Missouri Music Industry. My name is Charles Williams. I'm from Kansas City Missouri. I am the pianist for the Kansas City. Jazz Arkestra and I am a member of the Board for the American Jazz Museum. Eighteen the vying jazz district Kansas City Missouri. I'd have to know that there was a vaccine that you know if I had to wait a year. I WanNa feel comfortable knowing that. I don't want to go into a restaurant and play on the keyboard that is full John's because keyboard gathered germs. And then just be around a bunch of people that know what? They're you know what their status is mask or no mass. Charles lives off of a pension and had been using live gigs to supplement. His income recently lost a number of close friends to Kobe. Nineteen and he told us that his reluctance to return to live performing his tied directly to his own health related. To just go out here and play and take a risk. You lose in my life. I'm sixty four years old and don't have any bad health. Conditions do have high blood pressure. But I'm not trying to rush into something. That is very serious. I mean that's eight. I not jumping out there to make me be part of that number. You know what I'm saying. So for the time being Charles's finding comfort in just playing music at home. Good thing about it is. I can go sit down at my studio play. I got a couple of keyboards. Klay upstairs downstairs and my dad is therapeutic for me to play despite myself and you know. I'm Kristen. God pray and sometimes it's just played to God myself I said why haven't play to Lord I can play to you. You know to soon myself like say get online right and if I'm getting a lot of comments that they say thank you. This was great. You were blessing to me. That's like mission accomplished. If you'd like to share your thoughts about live music give us a call at eight. Seven seven eight might take and that's our show for today. Thank you so much for listening. Tomorrow it's politics with Amy Walter. I'm should meet the best. Sue In for Tenzin Vega. Thanks for being here. This is the takeaway. We'll see you next week.

Missouri United States Kobe Spain Shumita Basu Chris Chia Dr Robin Gurwitch Lansing Linda Freund Abram X. Candy Lansing Michigan Long Island Cova Baltimore County Oregon Harvard University Charlotte University of Maryland Duke University Medical Center associate professor of history
How Labor Organizing Can Help Women and People of Color Unemployed Due to COVID-19 2020-05-13

The Takeaway

48:23 min | 1 year ago

How Labor Organizing Can Help Women and People of Color Unemployed Due to COVID-19 2020-05-13

"America's wealth gap is expected to widen due to Kobe. Nineteen we know for instance that women and people of color earn less money and have less wealth what that means. When they hit a time of unemployment they have simply less to fall back on. How and why the pandemic hitting communities of color so hard that's our top story. Today on the takeaway for Wednesday may thirteenth. I'm Shumita Basu. Also we talk with the Mayor of Denver about how the Mile High City is weathering corona virus. Public Health administrators really had developed strategy includes a homeowner that will help us to begin to practice every curve which we were successfully able to the flat and a look at the theater industry right now where all the world's an empty stage like many things we have persevered. We'll find a way and it may not look like what we were. We imagined but you know I think it's important to have a stage from which to tell our stories. I the wealth gap and covert nineteen is a real risk. That you will trigger an that. You might not be able to control which impact docs will set you back. Not only leading suffering and death avoided could even set you back on the road to try to get economic recovery this week. Anthony Fauci the country's top medical expert for the covert nineteen crisis testified virtually in front of the Senate Health Committee. He urged the country to refrain from opening up too early and he said the death toll from the virus in the United States could be much higher than the reported. Eighty thousand people so far and as the Health Crisis Continues Cove. Nineteen has also pushed us over the cliff toward an economic crisis. We're still bracing for the impact in the month of April alone. More than twenty million people filed for unemployment in the United States that is a staggeringly high number the US now has an unemployment rate of fourteen point seven percent and to put that in perspective we have not seen anything that high since the Times of the Great Depression and even then the rate took a year and a half to get very high here. It happened within a month. That's Lean Wyndham. She's the associate director of the Kalmanovitz Initiative for Labor and the working poor at Georgetown University. The workers who are affected the most are of course those who are working in hospitality and service jobs and there's something else striking about who's hit the hardest though it's no surprise to communists who've seen this trend again and again we know that people of Color and women are the most likely to have lost their jobs. The unemployment is hitting women and people of Color even harder. I spoke with lean to discuss the significance of these numbers along with Aaron. Ross Coleman in Ida b wells fellow at the tight media institute covering race and Economics We know for instance that women and people of color earn less money and have less wealth and what that means when they hit a time of unemployment and when they hit hard times as they have simply less to fall back on so you know the fact that women only make eighty two cents on the dollar to what men earn black women earn. Just sixty two cents for every dollar earned by men that means that at times of unemployment when they lose their jobs they they just are going to be harder hit Aaron. Can you say more about how these unemployment numbers breakdown across racial lines? So new Desegregated. It's even worse picture. Hispanic unemployment's at eighteen percent black unemployment said sixteen percent the of white and Asian unemployment or both At fourteen in you already are starting to see some of the disparate kind of breakdowns. That have happened impasse. Recessions during the previous the great recession I it was similarly disparate national diplomas at nine percent and then a black unemployment was at sixteen percent and then going back to the Great Depression. You see similar kind of really big gaps with twenty four percent nationally and fifty percent for black people. So there's the old saying that when America gets a cold Black Americans get the flu. And it's like now we all have chronic so it's a pretty tough lane. What about the gender gap did unemployment shakeout in a similar way in two thousand and eight in two thousand and eight? We saw job losses Were more heavily. Worn by men Often and the construction industry for instance this time around. It's different women are losing their jobs. At a faster rate the unemployment rate among women right now is fifteen point. Five percent compared to thirteen percent among men. That's a big gender gap and we. We saw gender gap although it wasn't as large in two thousand eight but it was reversed so this time because of the nature of the kinds of jobs that are being lost that tend to be more female dominated Women are absolutely shouldering A lot of the burden in this round Aaron we also saw a very long recovery process. Take place since two thousand eight and for many people that recovery was only being felt recently. How do you perceive it will be for us to bounce back to a recovery from this? I think a lot of that depends on the public policy response. And you know. What policymakers decided to do to intervene? But right now it's tough in. There are a lot of obstacles ahead for a lot of families for a lot of workers particularly black and Brown workers. You know unemployment was just starting to dip down into the low single digits. You know that was a talking point. That trump was very proud of the lowest black unemployment on record. And that's because you saw a recovery where you know. More people were starting to join the Labor Force. Employers are becoming less discriminatory. And you know who they would hire Just based off race and skill and stuff like that so you earlier last year at the end of last year two thousand nineteen we were just getting to those really good kind of unemployment numbers were people. Were being able to participate and now here. We are at the worst recession since the Great Depression Lane right now. There's a lot of talk about essential workers and I'm sitting in New York and here many of those essential workers are black and Brown people. What might recession look like for essential workers across the country? One in three jobs held by women are considered essential so a recovery for essential workers could mean that they have jobs they have work but will the work be healthy. Will it be safe? Will it be jobs that they can can go to with confidence? And I'd say right now. Many of those workers are reporting to work and are really risking the safety For themselves and for their families and I think that You know we have a long way to go before Those essential workers who we depend on those cashiers. Those nurses those. Emt workers are are fully protected and are fully safe. You know. I'm thinking about unions and labour organizing lane. Hefley seen a difference between how unionized workers and non unionized workers fair during past recessions. I'm curious how Labour organizing can possibly help black and Brown people and women specifically so there absolutely is a union difference in terms of wages. You know I mentioned before. There'S A gender wage gap. There's a race wage gap unions closed that. And so you know. A worker who has a union makes more money than those who don't women and people of color or even more likely to do better than their non union counterparts So Unions addresses lutely Raise WAGES INCREASE BENEFITS. And frankly give workers more say at a time when they really need it work place. You know you saw that. I think for instance. In some of the unionized grocery stores those were the first ones to have the plexiglas up. Should be making sure that that there was safety For for their workforce you know and what we're seeing across the country is that there's lots more interest in unions. Lots of workers have been striking Just since the beginning of March there have been over one hundred and fifty wildcat strikes. These are strikes that are not necessarily called by the Union. They are from the grass roots when people feel that their safety is not being respected and so there there have been a number of strikes Across the country and I think There's also just been a renewed interest in general and the idea of organizing unions. Do we know if there are any organizations or at the local or state level or even local or state level governments? That are really bracing for what these unemployment numbers mean. Is Anyone truly prepared for this? I don't think so. I mean recessions or something that like state. Local officials really depend on the federal government for support just because they oftentimes don't have the budgets that allow for Kind of deficit spending in order to offset you know like cuts to their budget or just you know. Large scale stimulus so it. It really often in my experience. Just speaking economists and politicians. It's something that they definitely relying on the federal government to help them get through. Just see something of this size and scope. I would just add to that that in this country it is very clear right now that the way that we do our social safety net is particularly poorly. Put together to deal with this kind of a massive pandemic a huge crisis. You know Workers Healthcare comes through their employers up to forty. Three million people may lose their healthcare and this crisis in addition our unemployment is for it goes through the states It doesn't go through the federal level at one system. And so you know we are particularly poorly suited to dealing with this level of a crisis so in the absence of those kinds of social safety nets like you said Lane. What are some solutions that we can look to to sort of soften the blow of this economic crisis? I think that in the immediate term the federal government has to step up. There needs to be more stimulus. We absolutely need that cushion in this country. And then I think that Our leaders need to follow where the people are right now. Which is that. The people are demanding. A more robust social safety net people fully understand at this point why are employer provided health care system is not working. Why people need paid sick leave? Why even we need page healthcare? I think it's very obvious to people. And I think over the next several years that we MESA leader stepping up and beginning to make some really fundamental changes in policy in this country. What have we learned from the past regarding the impact of recessions and rising unemployment numbers on elections? Like how can we expect this to manifest itself at the polls this November? I think one of the interesting things is just the way that this is kind of changing the way people are talking about elections and the way the candidates are talking about themselves like it was earlier last year that Bernie Sanders framed his Democratic Socialism in terms of what. Fdr Did earlier this week. You see Joe Biden in New York magazine. I believe it. Is You framing his presidential candidacy in terms of FDR FDR size presidency? So I think that's one of the ways previous recessions especially like even depressions is packing a just the kind of ways. The politicians themselves are thinking about political economy in what they think. It'll take to move voters also like what they think. It actually take to get us up out of this crisis. It's interesting that Biden. Says he hopes to have an FDR kind of administration. You know Roosevelt was pushed in many ways to implement much of the new deal by by working people who strock hikes throughout the country in nineteen thirty four and much of what. Roosevelt implemented had actually been test driven in the states at a local level before it was ever implemented at the federal level. And so I think that It's important to remember in the election. They that yes. Of course The power at the top makes a lot of difference. But there's also lots happening at the local level at the state level and among working people and we have to take a broad look during the election season professor lean. Wyndham is the associate director of the mandates initiative for Labor and the working poor at Georgetown University and Aaron. Ross Coleman is an IT wells fellow at the tight media institute covering race and Economics. Thank you both so much. Thank you thank you. On Saturday. Denver joined the growing number of cities across the country that have begun to reopen retail stores and personal services like hair salons and tattoo parlors can now operate at half capacity as long as they follow the city's safety guidelines and one of those new rules makes facemasks mandatory for anyone in or waiting to get into any commercial or retail business government or health facility or public transportation to continue our series of conversations with local leaders joining me. Now is the mayor of Denver Michael Hancock Mayor Hancock. Thanks for joining us to be with. You should meet a thanks for having me. What were the major factors that made you feel like it was safe to begin this phase of reopening Denver? Well we're GONNA have to really you know think foundationally one is recognizing that this fire is going to be with us For long haul and we have to learn how to navigate it really try to box it in for selves here in Denver. And with that. You know the public health administrators Really had deduct develop strategies including the stay at home orders That will help us to Begin to practice the EPI curve in which we were successfully able to do we were able to flat flat it. We saw stain plateauing. Nabet Kerr even some decreases in terms of number of Presumptive positives hospitalizations and deaths in Denver. And and that became kind of the overall you know portrait and how we made a decision that we can begin to slowly rollout operations in the city of Denver with some guardrails including the mandatory mask. And I want to ask you about that basketball in a minute but Dr Anthony. She told the Senate Health Committee. Yesterday that reopening too-soon could lead to in his words suffering and death that could be avoided. Did hearing that give you pause at all about how you'RE GOING ABOUT REOPENING DENVER? Absolutely make sure and we had it in our mind anyway but as we think about opening up the city what are going to be those guardrails. They help us to kind of make. Sure we manage the spikes. We know there's going to be more Presumptive positives we know. There's going to be more cases because we're testing more. But how do we make sure we're able to manage it as opposed virus managing us and and that's really the the mindset we went into with and that's why things like wearing masks that's why things like still no more than ten people place if you go into a beauty shop or salon It's by appointment. Only waiting cannot sit and wait in salon. Like appointment is pending Insult God rather important. I can't try to manage The transmission of the virus Going forward and then of course stepping up our game in terms of testing as well as contact tracing with that rule about face masks being mandatory in many public situations. How are you enforcing that rule? You know it really is a voluntary compliance We recognize and have tried to spread the value. That I wear my mask. I'm healthy doing when you wear your helping And so People recognize that when two people are in each other's facilities and wearing a mask dropped dramatically the possibility of transmission of the virus and so education has been really the key for us I'll tell you that You know inspectors are out and about The police are aware of best. But it's really the people and the value of saying you know what the best thing I can do for my neighbors where this mask and the best thing that neighbor can do for me to wear the mask and when you go into the stores as I I did this weekend I can tell you that. Ninety nine percent of the people were Grand Mask and people were appreciative. Folks were wearing masks. Those they really stick out like a Unicorn right now we WANNA keep it that way for a while. We want to have the value in the Coke Zero Basque wearing For a while hundreds of homeless people in Denver tested positive for the corona virus last month and at the end of April you cleared out homeless encampments despite CDC guidance saying not to do so unless individual housing was available which it was not. Can you explain the motives behind this decision Mr Mayor? Yeah Shamir let me correct the record. We did not clear out being cabinet actually since the CDC guidance came out and it's just that guidance We have allow for spawn cabbage to develop in the city of Denver against our own policies. Well we did at the end of April was to go in and clean. The encampments are public. Health Team had identified unfortunately that some of the cancer deteriorated to where there were probably health threats. And that's something. We simply cannot tolerate any more than we can tolerate the unnecessary willful You know transmission of the virus and Denver which it's a public health threat and so what we did was we to clean the encampments. People were asked to move their belongings so that we could bleach or are sanitize the and pick up the the elements that could be that could endanger people's health and safety And then they were allowed come right back if they didn't want to move we create around them But as the threats process we're going to continue to go in and we may have to move folks on one side of the street to be others so that we can create the public health threat. We simply will not tolerate for public health threats to exist In the community. Because it's not only a threat to the people who are homeless experiencing homelessness but it's a threat to the general public. We've talked about Concerns for unsheltered people in this moment on this program. Quite a bit and there have been concerns raised about these congregate shelters as being really untidily circumstances for people to be in during a pandemic. What were the options given to people who are who were saying these homeless encampments try to move them indoors including Some respite care locations. Which are some of your traditional shelters but also Some additional new ones that we've opened up that give you larger space Within the confines of dealing with Kobe Nineteen Challenge So they had over a hundred square feet or sixty to sixty square feet In which to to be cared for but we also have up. Some hotel rooms That we as much as we can gather together for. The hotels that has become vacant are shuttered As a result of colgate nineteen we have been in negotiation. Opened UP THOSE ROOMS. We have close to six hundred over six hundred rooms available so those who may be exempting exhibiting symptoms or more vulnerable because of their age for example We have moved those into hotel. Rooms are offered hotel rooms to them. I wanted to ask you Mr Mayor about that. Facemask rule have you received pushback from your constituency about that rule. We've seen protests in some other parts of the country against similar guidelines right not not widespread. We've had isolated incidents where people have refused aware. I'm going inside Facilities and basically vocal are Operation Security is pretty much handled it. But we've not had widespread you know you hear Comments here and there from people on Social Media Maybe one or two people walk into the office but nothing that would cause us great alarm and regarded the homeless encampments that we discussed earlier. So what happened to the people who were temporarily displaced by what you're describing is being cleaning happening at the homeless encampments. They were allowed to stay there. Most of them just moved to the side. Or you know maybe across the street while we clean bet side of street me were allowed to come back after the clean was completed South though the UP To twenty four seven Congregate care shelters where we're also random testing members People were experiencing homeless as well as several other respite shelters hotel rooms to take care of those who have been tested presents a positive so we have been pretty aggressive in terms of providing indoor space for our for our people experiencing homelessness in Denver But also allow again for the smaller campus to occur in the city Denver Mayor Michael Hancock. Thank you for talking with us. Absolutely every day Some scientists warned that for the first time in centuries the southwestern U. S. is in the midst of a mega drought. That's according to a new study published in the Academic Journal. Science mega droughts occur when a region has experienced severe drought conditions for a long period of time usually across multiple decades as concerns grow over the coming wildfire season on the west coast. And how the corona virus could affect their response. We talked to Park Williams. He's a climate scientist at Columbia University and one of the authors of the new study park. Thanks for joining us. Thanks very much so tell us. What exactly is a mega drought? And how does it compare to? A regular drought. Mega droughts were really I discovered in the nineteen hundreds in the early nineteen hundreds of tree-ring scientists found these phenomenal droughts evident in tree ring records and these droughts that that occurred during the medieval period. Back about one thousand years ago through about four hundred years ago happened repeatedly and what the reason we call. The mega drought says because they are bigger than and longer lasting than any drought that we have seen in modern times and that means that modern society which really developed the eighteen hundreds of nineteen. Hundreds is probably not tuned to a mega drought. A while. Mega drought may have a bit of a nebulous definition. The one thing we know. Is that a mega. Drought is unlike anything that we saw in the eighteen. Hundreds nineteen hundreds. And you're saying that this is something that shows up in tree rings like when you cut into the stump of a tree and you're able to study the rings in that Tree Trunk. How is it evident in the tree rings right as grow? They add on an annual growth ring every year and a big wide ring in the tree. Trunk means a tree grew a lot in that year. And if the ring skinny it means means grew a little bit in the West. Generally the primary limiting factor on life is water and so in years in water was not plentiful than the trainings. Hearings are skinny. And it's not just one tree that'll have a skinny ring. Essentially all the trees across the West will have a skinny ring in so we can use these these sequences of skinny rings and fat rings like Barcodes to see how drought varied in the past. So interesting so how do you define that? A mega drought is currently happening. Well we can bring these these tree-ring records to see what drought was like almost up until present but of course many train records were collecting or were they were using were collected back in the nineteen eighty s and nineteen ninety s and extend these tree-ring records a drought with actual observations of drought based on climate data. All the way up through present and what we see. Is that red around the year? Two thousand the bottom dropped back out of the bucket and the West end dry and we know it began drawings. We've Seen Lake Mead and Lake Powell in the West Declining SPO- explosive increases in wildfire activities. Seem these giant Barbie la breaks. We've seen rapid extraction of groundwater and we've known this drought is bad but it's been tough to tell exactly how bad until now and what this would our assessment shows is that the drought began in the two thousand. Even though there have been brief breaks. Just like Mega. Droughts had this drought. The began in two thousand has been on par with the worst two decade periods of the worst mega droughts that occurred about a thousand years ago. And where exactly are we seeing? These extreme drought conditions. What states or parts of states are affected? Our analysis covers what we call southwestern North America and extends across most of Western most of the Western continental us and also includes northern. Mexico goes up as far north as southern Montana and it goes down as far south as a couple hundred miles into southern Mexico Park. What is responsible for these extreme drought conditions that we're seeing today and how much of it can be attributed to climate change? We've known for decades now that Generally when droughts occur across the West or anywhere it the main thing that it takes is just bad luck. The atmosphere just teams up against a part of the world A what we call an atmospheric Ridge forms where storms are not allowed through and things. Dry Out they get really hot and you get a drought. The main purpose of this study that we did we. How much of this drought was just bad luck? And how much is due to climate change? Meaning how likely is it? The Stroud is really going to continue in the future. We imagined a hypothetical world and we recalculated what drought would have been like without the warming trends we observer last century and what we see is that yes the west still would have been been in a drought over the last twenty years but without the extra three degrees Fahrenheit of warming but the drought wouldn't have been nearly a severe in fact the drought that would have occurred due to just bad luck and not climate change would have been about half as severe as the drought that was actually observed. It wouldn't be going toe to toe with the mega droughts that we see in the tree ring record from last millennium and that is really important. It's GonNa take less and less bad luck to fall back into severe drought in the future. And it's GonNa take more and more good luck to our selves back out of Drought Future. What about the implications for the people and the wildlife who live in that region? What what is this drought meant for them? We have seen a wildfires increase especially in forests since the early nineteen eighties or so. We've seen the annual area of forest fire increase by a factor of more than ten meaning. There's more forest burned in an average you today than there was about forty years ago. You've seen massive bark beetle outbreaks which have been promoted by a severe drought and and temperatures. And we've seen major limitations on. How much is available? California for example had in state really aggressive restrictions We've seen big shifts in agriculture. What we've seen is agriculture using more water out of the ground groundwater as a backstop to buffer against the consequences of and because groundwater takes a long time to replenish in many places is an unsustainable activity meaning that in order to have a more comfortable drought right. Now we've been borrowing from our resilience to drought in the future. D- You have any concerns about what the emergency response to. Wildfires will look like during this pandemic once again across the majority of the West including a lot of our forested areas. The Sierra Nevada's the central northern rockies the cascade range in the Pacific northwest these areas are normally dry right now and that generally promotes a fire so unless these areas are bailed out by wet summer fire activity is going to be Or Say Fire. Potential liabilities really high the same time. A lot of fires are set by people on accident. Will they be more or people in Nature During this pandemic or less I don't think we we quite what we do know is what you were just suggesting that the Ability to respond to fires may not be as As strong as it is in normal years for example training camps for firefighters have already had to be altered or canceled because of the pandemic and so we'll firefighters be able to have the same response this year. I really don't know but but what I'm reading is Probably the same as many that. Is that the response is probably going to be weaker this year. And so We may see some some bigger fires but that's yet to be seen park. Williams is a climate scientist at Columbia University Park. Thank you very much for joining us. Thanks for having me Kobe nineteen has forced performing arts theaters across the country to halt productions and closed their doors. Broadway has announced it will remain dark until at least the fall but for smaller arts organizations. The picture is much more dire. Most theaters don't know when they'll be able to reopen to audiences. Many aren't sure they'll be able to stay afloat until then and the communities that depend on these theaters have at least temporarily lost essential spaces for art education and simply coming together but even if theaters are able to reopen within say a year it's far from guaranteed that members will be quick to return a recent poll by the market research companies. Shula research found that only about thirty six percent of theatergoers in the United States. Think they would go back to their old theater going routines once performances resume. Which means it'll be a long time before. Many theaters can bring in the level of revenue. They were making before the pandemic and that reality comes on top of cancellations already experienced the spring. The day we shutdown was the day our gala was meant to happen and then the Monday following. We were to begin rehearsals on the wolves so we lost a production and a gala. That's page price producing artistic director for the Philadelphia Theatre Company in Los Angeles. The country's oldest Asian American theater company East West players was at a similar point in its season. Here's they're producing. Artistic Director Snap Hall Deci. The evening we closed. We were about to start previews for the musical assassins by Sondheim as part of a citywide celebration for as ninetieth birthday and it was also a biggest musical of the year and then we also were about to launch our theatre for youth tour which hits a tens of thousands of kids in southern California and like page. We were weeks way from Arkansas. As well which had to be cancelled as an in person event I spoke with Schnee Hall. Npr's about what cove nineteen has meant for their arts communities as well as how their own employees have been affected financially. By these cancellations. I think the financial impact was a what to do with the folks that were on payroll for the show so we had folks who once you go to performance mode who worked front of House who were crew and those folks are paid in a different way than say Actors who have different contracts and stuff and so was a decision of how long to pay those folks out you know. We couldn't unfortunately pay them out for the full run but we were able to pay them out a little bit and in terms of our fulltime employees. We were actually okay because that was our last show of the season and then we were in our galaxies and we had a lot of our gal in CA- in the the trouble we're running into now is our community has been very patient. Ten very gracious about giving us time to see when things will be able to operate again but as the time line looks further and further out. Now we're getting more calls for refunds and so it just a concern of how much we're going to have to kind of return page. What about for you yeah? We're in a similar position where we waited a little bit because so much was happening so quickly that this week's worst case scenario was next week's best case scenario so We put everyone on hold to once. It came apparent that the unemployment was going to be generous. We followed almost the entire staff and we helped the NFL. The part time workers around the front of House. We help them get some emergency grants that were happening. And then with the actors we found out when they were available in the fall which of course now is the best case scenario and And so now. We're looking at a way that we could possibly do something with the actors online so that we can pay them an equity salary and showcase the play in some way in fact we thought we'd even go to the writer and see if there's any kind of work she'd like to do to imagine it presume and that way we can pay her something to so Just trying to find ways of closing that loop and and giving our ticket holders something to look at and many of them have donated back. I was pleasantly surprised by the amount about fifty eight percent. Donate the money back to their theater. But also mentioned you know as the timeline goes further and further away for when we'll gather again we're just trying to figure out how to stay attached to our community and it's now. I know that East West players has also been thinking about online content. Like page mentioned. Have you been able to produce plan anything like that we have? We took our time a little bit hip belt overwhelming surge of things that went online immediately and we wanted to see what we could translate. We have this series called presents. We have the series called crazy talented Asians and another one called Asia. And so we've been able to take some of those programs virtual and it's great you know. A lot of them have a variety show aspect multiple singers and COMEDIANS. And stuff like that. We will take that online once a month and then we just launched East Wednesdays kind of like a weekly different conversations with artists in our community. We just had one on Asian American comedians with Margaret. Show and Randall. Park and Suzy Nakimora. But we also interviewed doctors who are Asian American. Who are on the front lines to talk about their experiences that you've been having conversations with different artistic directors and other places in Philadelphia. What kinds of conversations are you having an? Is everyone sort of dealing with the same issues? Here it's really interesting. Philadelphia is like I was only there for three years. Now this is my third year and there's such an enormous community there and it ranges from individual producing artists. To almost I think we have seven Lord institutions in the area which is which is a lot and so he gathered started with a couple of people in their list has grown so more than seventy leaders are on this call now so you can imagine the scope of issues and they're similar to how do we take care of our artistic community how we take care of our staff. What do we do with programming? And I have to sit as a lot of forward motion with since the the group so big. Now we've broken up into five subsets of issues like reentry and sharing resources and one group is called dreaming forward. What are the innovations? That might come from this moment. I'm having another conversation with other peers across the country that might involve producing something and who knows what that looks like. That is very amorphous. The moment making something in Philly that maybe people in Seattle could look at giving people access to other artistic communities by sharing a platform. And so I'm talking with at least four other theaters all over the country about something like that snail. Hallamshire that you've been having similar conversations you're in La. I wonder if you're talking to artistic directors at other local theaters in L. A. Or or beyond what you've found helpful. We also have had great leadership from the city and the county so they have convened of working groups to have conversations and particularly across the performing arts spectrum so with dance with music organizations and things like that since we're all dealing with the same concerns about how to safely bring artists and audiences into the building and the real question that that's been kind of ruminating is what will our audiences also need. After all of this. You Know How do we honor the you know at this point? It's almost seventy five thousand. Americans have lost their lives in a very short span of time. And and what will that look like for most theaters? You know your base audience is actually in the high risk. Category of individuals above sixty and our traditional income streams of ticket sales subscriptions holiday shows and in-person fundraising events is not going to be reliable for a long time so as page said it is going to have to be really hard look at the model but the business model on the artistic model to see what is going to serve our community's and the best way possible so for us we also are looking to move outside the building. We're looking to take our work more in to say the senior homes and things like that so that we can bring something communities that have been most the hardest hit and we may not be able to see for awhile page. I wonder what kinds of specific conversations you're starting to have about reopening and what that would look like. Yes it's is really big again telling Si- well I think that you know th the whole started down. The road of what kind of emotional state are are artists? Going to be in our audience is going to be in. You know I worry about the sector. Fifty five thousand fulltime equivalent jobs in Philadelphia and I think of them as the motherboard. That's underneath the city. The cultural motherboard. And if if that's shorts out or we lose a big big chunks of it I fear for the vitality of the city because we we are going to be one of the last businesses to open. We're going to be the last areas of Pennsylvania to open and so we're just looking at what? What could we do to the building itself and we're we're budgeting structural changes? We know that actors equity is going to give us some guidelines for the artists backstage that will be global which is great but there have them somebody on that case but really what is it like to walk into a theater and expect to be taken away and have a whole front house staff in a mass you know but is that comfort. Inducing is that Yeah there's so much unknown that that we're just sort of making a different plan every week but it's starting to become a little bit more clear. How many pillars that we're going to have to put up underneath our productions to make people feel safe Sneha. I'm I'm sure you have lots of thoughts on what reopening might look like but I'm also wondering given the level of xenophobic and racist language. That's been used against. Asian Americans during this pandemic has entered into your thought at all in terms of the mission of your theater going forward. Yes I would say every day you know. I think the hardest thing right now with what we're dealing with is that we understand that humans are social creature and we were just not able to have that interaction with each other and it's going to be a very long time. I think that's a vital part of the services we provide. We are community centers and the further. Partly our it's there's an increasing lack of empathy and there's an increasing rise in the rhetoric so for us it's been about making sure community states visible that we speak out against kind of the hateful rhetoric and that we also educate our community on how to protect itself but you cannot deny the significant rise in hate crimes throughout the country and even in southern. California in La. We've seen an increase in incidents on a daily basis. And so for us. It's it's those things and then for me down the line. How will I keep my community safe my patrons and artists as they come back door space? Some theaters have already announced that they've had to make the difficult decision to close their doors permanently due to financial pressures from Cova nineteen. I'm wondering to both of you. What what the loss of live theatre million in your respective communities maybe page. Can you start you know? I don't believe that live theatre will go away. I can't I'm not there yet. I mean I certainly think that There's an expectation that theater will thrive in some form. It's been around somebody I hear on your on your zoom call to the communities. Now somebody made it was Michael. Ritchie mentioned that it was the second oldest profession in the world. So I I think it's GonNa stick around for awhile just look differently and you know. If I'm really honest I think there was a subscription model in many parts of our institutional theater models that needed a good look and you know if we need to take this time to to correct and to Rethink A. I'm trying to look at what that might bring to us to keep our art form vital but I can't imagine not having live theater. I just can't yeah I just want to Concur with page. I think we will survive. And I think you know we're in a period as I say a forced innovation And many of the things that are sector has put off in terms of bringing things online virtual experiences and stuff we're doing we're doing an a much faster way and we're becoming much more nimble organizations for East West. We are the largest and oldest Asian American theatre. But we're also the longest running theater of color in this country. So I feel like we have a significant role to play in the system of theater but also the locally nationally and so like many things we have persevered and we'll find a way and it may not look like what we were we imagined. But you know I think it's important to have a stage from which to tell our stories snailed the size. The producing artistic director of East West players in Los Angeles and page price is the producing artistic director for the Philadelphia Theatre Company. Thank you both so much for being here. Thank you thank you. We've also been hearing from you about how arts institutions in your communities are being affected by the pandemic and why that matters. I'm worried about the Oregon Shakespeare Festival. They will have no twenty twenty seasons on top of that wildfires in southern Oregon last year deeply impacted their bottom line. I worry about whether the theater will survive. And I worry about the livelihood of the Artists Hotel and restaurant workers who rely on success. This is Patty Farrell from Portland Oregon Chunk of her. I'm calling from Longmont Colorado. Just north of Denver. Losing our arts and culture would be awful. Hundreds of thousands of people over decades have worked and struggled and volunteer and donate it to build these places and they contribute so much more aren't society than many people think they do. I think it would be a tragedy list on. This is Hannah. I live in New York City. I work on Broadway. Local Arts and culture institutions are my community if we lose them even just for a long enough is a large portion of my family will leave my community forever. Either get jobs in other fields. That are able to reopen or else physically relocate. Who's in my arts and culture institutions means losing my community. Full Stop Erica Pock Peoria Illinois. And we're doing virtual tours of galleries and we're doing massive amounts of fundraising for to community theaters. This would be a horrible loss for our community. Considering one of our community theaters is the fourth longest running in the nation. This is bill from Long Beach Washington. The music venue. My wife and I have is closed right now as are all the theaters and art galleries in town. We've been doing open. Mics and local artists concerts on zoom. The sound quality is great for most people. But it's beats no music at all. The Arts are real important part of a community here on the Long Beach Peninsula and so everybody is more than determined to get it going again. Many Masindi Henry. I'm from Portsmouth New Hampshire Unfortunately they cancel the Prescott Park Music Festival which happens all summer and brings amazing artists to the community and really great theater for kids. It's definitely going to take a toll on the local economy and basically morale the community because we love summer in New England. We hope that they bounce back and we're going to figure out ways to support them on throughout the summer. That's all for us today. Remember you can weigh in about local arts or anything else you heard on. Today's show by calling us at eight. Seven seven eight mile. Take I'M SHUMITA BASU? And this is the takeaway. I'll talk to you tomorrow.

Denver Los Angeles director Michael Hancock Mayor Hancock United States Aaron Shumita Basu Union Georgetown University Ross Coleman Senate Health Committee New York City Philadelphia associate director California Anthony Fauci
One Year After The First Step Act 2019-12-23

The Takeaway

45:46 min | 1 year ago

One Year After The First Step Act 2019-12-23

"The Hey it's the takeaway on December twenty third I'm WNYC's Shumita. Basu in for tenzing Vega Today on the podcast one year After the passage of a bipartisan criminal justice reform at a look at what the measure has achieved. I think the first APP actually opened a door and the eyes is of many people for those who are incarcerated formerly incarcerated plus with Christmas just days away. We'll hear how non-christians in the United States are celebrating reading at this time of the year in their own ways putting the Havana history proves that we are one and the solidarity and this kindness and this love is in a way a form of a little resistance and itself and why some Lgbtq fans have a bad feeling about a brief moment of queer representation. Listen in the new star wars it makes them get to seem progressive without actually having to be progressive and that's kind of the way that they play their publicity game all right. Let's get into it. We start with the first step act one year ago president. Then trump passed a law that promised criminal justice reform across the country. We call it the first step back. I sort of like the idea of just calling. Criminal Justice. Justice reform the bipartisan first. Step at authorized the early release of federal prisoners who were convicted of low level drug offenses and have worked through rehabilitation programs and one year later. More than three thousand inmates have been released. One of them is Nora. Yahya I did ten years in Danbury and then lowered my security level to camp and from there I was released upon the F. Essay which put me out out March eleventh two thousand nineteen which took off approximately three years of my sentence. Nora was in for possession and intent to distribute cocaine. Oh Kane I think one of the excitement of the first act is that people could get closer to the families and continue that Bonn for Nora besides sites being away from her children incarceration meant enduring painful health issues with no relief while I was incarcerated. My leg start hurt. Sunni in I also had like two lumps in my legs so one night I couldn't even get up. They actually had a call to amraams but it was only after her release this year that she was finally able to undergo back surgery completely. Change all the pain in my legs. I feel like one hundred percent percent like the person I was prior to all even after the long-overdue medical treatment for Nora re entry was challenging it. It was very hard not just technology wise. That's that's something in its own south. That was hard and very challenging also started out in a new state which which is New York but I had to start over with my children. Who are who aren't children? Who are adults now but the first step act led her to criminal final justice reform organizations that helped guide her post incarceration life? They introduced me to a computer round. There was just the basics of surf. The Internet are net things that are just totally foreign to me. They also helped me with my medical assistance because I hadn't had the proper medical treatment and I also took a program. I'm to become license for food handler. Now Nora works as an advocate for people who are incarcerated. I think the first step actually opened the door in the eyes of many people for those who are incarcerated for me incarcerated for more on the first step act and where it is one year in. I'm joined by Jonathan Terry Policy Advisor at John. Jay College of Criminal Justice and Louis L. read national organizer for cut fifty a bipartisan initiative. To cut crime and incarceration in half across the country. Thanks to both of you for being here on the show. Thanks for having me on Jonathan. I tell us how the first step act is intended to work when it comes to early release so the first step back includes several provisions for Federal Prison Reform it eliminates the three strike rule which is a law wow that was originally meant to provide harsher punishments for those who have several federal convictions so previously you could get a life sentence. Thanks for having three convictions. Convictions that's been reduced to twenty five years. Since it also extends the two thousand ten Fair Sentencing Act which which reduced the disparity that could be given in a sentence for selling crack cocaine versus powder cocaine also brings people closer to home. Ideally really five hundred. Miles is now limit that people are supposed to be allowed to be away from home wind and the federal prison it includes a lot of other quality of life you might right say provision for federal prisons as well so women who are pregnant are no longer able to be shackled juveniles longer able to be put in solitary confinement Also expanded re entry programs which was mentioned a little bit before so the process of going back into society after prison is a AH arduous one and so the first step act Apportioned millions of dollars for a lot of those programs to help people as they enter. It was also meant to create risk assessment tools which look at someone record and various other factors to decide whether whether or not they are arrested society and that way Ideally we are able to look at people allow them to exit from prison. And no because this person isn't going to be arrested anyone we feel okay letting them out even potentially earlier. Let me ask you about sentence reduction because as I mentioned just a minute ago more than three thousand awesome people have been released now under this act. Can you explain what the process looks like for them to have gotten their sentences reduced right so a lot of the the people who are having their sentences reduced were originally sentenced in the seventies and eighties as part of the war on drugs and so the first step actor. It just says that since we sentence people differently now We are going to look at those instances that were given before and if they are no longer in line with what we what sentence you currently we are going to reduce those sentences Many of them. Those incidences are reduced through petition. Some are reduced dramatically There is also an expansion in of good time. Which says that if you are incarcerated? But you're taking part in programs that are meant to rehabilitate you. Whether that's job training or drug treatment or something of that sort you can have time taken off of your sentence and so there are different provisions to allow people to reduce their sentences and about a thousand seven hundred people have gotten Martin reductions in their sentence Since the first step back into law and there's a reduction of about six years average for people who have that reduction Lewis. Let me bring you into the conversation. Jonathan just mentioned the war on drugs in the seventies and eighties. This act is mainly aimed at people who were arrested. During at that time period many of them were black men. What do we know about the demographics of the people who've been released under the APP so far you for decades the criminal justice a conversation tation among our political leaders especially both on the state and national level could be characterized as a race to the bottom? It was a competition for who could be the toughest on crime who lock up the most people in throw away the key It was also a conversation that was defined by dangerous rhetoric with no regard for empathy. The or second chances. In essentially a dehumanized people I was one of those individuals that was in that conversation in two thousand. I was sentenced to a term of imprisonment of one hundred eighty eight months and for our listening audience I don't want to Belabor the point in terms of you using your fingers and toes trying to figure that out. Oh that's approximate deaths. Approximately sixteen years. I served almost fourteen years off that sixteen year. Federal prison sentence for White collar related offenses most of the individuals by whom I was incarcerated with were not individuals that had got caught up in the war on drugs. It's in the seventies and eighties. In fact these individuals Were caught up in the mid ninety two the early two thousands Especially after after the nine hundred ninety four Clinton Crime Bill Ninety one percent of the individuals that were released under that particular provision at Jonathan talked about as as it relates to the crack cocaine provision ninety one percent of those individuals were African Americans. So let me just quantify these numbers of for you for second to dates seven thousand people total have been released under the first step act I should say seven thousand people. Total have have received significant can't reductions And they have been released under the first step back. Ninety one percent of those individuals happen to be African. American who African Americans who were sentenced under those draconian of crack cocaine laws Particularly pointing back to nineteen eighty seven moving up to nine hundred ninety four and and Up to date until about approximately two thousand ten that has totaled that seven thousand number that has totaled approximately seventeen thousand years of human freedom that have been restored back to our community. Now think about this in the Christmas. Season Jesus was crucified. Approximately approximately two thousand years ago. And if we look at the numbers that actually places us back into B. C.. So I think that this is something that a significant I am literally Pulled over on the side of the road Twenty minutes away from MDC Brooklyn where. I am going to be with family. Who is going to have their loved? One Return back to them In this Christmas season after having served twenty years on a life sentence in that individual is going to be released as as a result as a result of the first act and that's as a result of the advocacy With people such as myself to. PK Sam David. Sylvian Cut Fifties co-founder Van Jones and Jessica Jackson and the many other advocates and organizations that was in his Bipartisan coalition and. Make sure that we got this bill across the finish line. Louis let me ask you something. Because one of the acts major provisions as John mentioned earlier was to place incarcerated individuals within a five hundred mile radius of their families that they would be closer to them. Why was that such an important part of this legislation? Yes so the reason why. The five hundred mile provision is significantly the important within the first step act is because it does one of several things number one in make sure is that individuals are connected with their families and that those relationships are cultivated between parents and their children number two it brings about a level of proximity to the individual individual who was incarcerated and also to the community and number three it actually reduces the probability of individuals who are incarcerated from from participating and issues that very well could bring about institutional infractions so for instance if an individual is in proximity to of their last last known address and they know that they are potentially going to see their mother their father the family members a significant others etc.. They're going to be less likely early. To be an engaged in fights assaults you know in the likes thorough Jonathan. The acts when it was passed last year it was hailed by president. Trump is a huge chief. -Ment in being able to bring the two parties together as Lewis mentioned. It was largely a bipartisan effort. Why did this act appeal to politicians on on both sides of the aisle so criminal justice reform brings people together in part because there's a strong moral Push for it. It's hard to to argue and a lot of cases that someone who may have made a mistake should be put away for such a long time It's also incredibly expensive. We spend billions of dollar incarcerating people Especially here in the United States. We have the world's largest prison population we do. We have over two point one million people in prison in the United States leads And I think that whether regardless of where you fall politically you can see that we are wasting a lot of money on putting people in cages from those people could be contributing to the economy. Those people could Be With their families and so it really brings people together on either side. And of course Jared Kushner has a father who was incarcerated and so he understands some of issues that are being That are at play here and he was able to help assure along the the political coalition That pushed through the first step back and I think that we are also thinking a lot. About mass incarceration The fact that we do have so many people put away The draconian laws that were just mentioned have really torn apart communities. And we're able to you now fight that together and I think everyone can see the value in that Lewis. I know that you're very involved in communities where people are returning home from prison. Can you talk about some of the the biggest hurdles for them. Once they're out. Yeah absolutely so I think there are things that are obvious and show up in a stat sheets you know these are the things in terms himself. Employment Housing Insecurities ETC likes thereof. I think that one of the major issues Dad I act seeks to remedy is the simplicities of things such as not having an identification card Wanted to provision visions within a bill actually requires all federal people who are being released to make sure that they have access to appropriate identification when you think about that that may not necessarily seem like much quote unquote much but when you think about how an individual could potentially Have incidental contact with with police. A with Wi- with law enforcement and that individual potentially have their term of supervision Violated because of incidental contact because he or she may not may be in a place where they may be accosted by the police. They could be Riding as a passenger in a vehicle An officer ask for that individuals identification that individual can't produce it because he or she has not necessarily secured it because you need an ID a d just to get an ID and all the bureaucracy involved with that that individual could actually be you know a hauled into the local police department apartment just to check out who they who they are and when they are there that could potentially trigger a violation for police contact. So you know Vera things in terms of like employment yes people need to be back And or Not even back because most of the individuals who are actually incarcerated they they may not necessarily have had employment in the first place so they they need to enter into our workforce. They need to make sure that they have adequate housing. They need to make sure that they have access to appropriate health care treatment etc and so one of the things that we're doing it cut. Fifty is one of the several following. We have partner Wickliffe through our relationship with Kim Kardashian. They have given US ten thousand a free lift rideshare credits that we are distributing to individuals who are being released under the first step so that they can have access to You know just you know employment opportunities healthcare opportunities etc Healthcare appointments etc.. Say in addition we have also partnered with talk space. Talk space the online therapeutic a platform so that individuals can decompress from what I call The new PTSD in prison traumatic stress disorder. So that they can. Have you know a safe place just is to you know. Talk about the the TRAUMAS or indoor the vicarious trauma that they've actually observe as a result of being car serrated. Let Me Bring Jonathan back in here for just a moment because because this law I should mention affects people incarcerated at the federal level. It doesn't even touch the roughly one point three million people in state prisons. The sentence are we seeing similar reform movements at the state level. Jonathan the federal system incarcerates more than any individual state system but the state systems account for the vast majority of people in prison so the federal system is about ten percent of the total. US prison population. And so we. We are seeing some of these reforms being put in place Not all of them are prison reform. Some of them are broader criminal justice reforms but Where they are being put in place? really depends news on the state. New York is just past new bail laws which are going to affect shortly and twenty twenty year in the New Year and Other places are thinking about you know legalizing marijuana or thinking about how do we safely race past convictions. And some of that is happening through. Who advocate some of? It is happening through Progressive District Attorney's And so at the state level. Not only do you have more people incarcerated but you have in some ways a more complicated it system just because so many different actors are involved in making particular decisions And so we do. See these reforms but it'll be harder urge to push through in a lot of ways on the state level Just to get everyone on board. And let's talk about politics now on the federal level because many advocates have acknowledged the first step act is a major victory but they've also mentioned that the next step is focusing on those who've been found guilty of violent offenses and perhaps even rethinking policing on a grander scale. Would either of those approaches be able to gain bipartisan support in your opinion Jonathan. That's really hard to say a lot of previous bills that were not able to be passed. lost a lot of support. Because they were. They pushed the too far of advocates. Say That I didn't go far enough because it doesn't eliminate mandatory minimums Because it doesn't push far enough on good time credits We're wondering about what is electric monitoring do there is a new Thought Within Criminal Justice Reform Circle that we are moving towards e commerce ration- where People's information will be collected And where we'll know where someone is at all times we'll have a certain amount of information built up which is a different kind of Captivity Anyway and so there are a lot of sort of fights that that are yet to be had but violent crime in particular is a really difficult I think even For people on the left who are have been pushing for various various kinds of criminal justice reform for years Thinking about releasing someone who you know may have sold drugs at some point. It's very different from thinking about what do we do with someone who it might have heard someone on the street may have even killed someone And so those will be much harder battles and I at this. Point can't quite see receiving leaving bipartisan support. But the first step act was fantastic because it showed that there is some possibility I was once told doing this. Work that if you don't believe that you can make a difference in push forward. Then why are you doing the work at all so I'll stay optimistic. Jonathan Terry is a policy advisor at John. Jay College of Criminal Justice and Louis L. Read is a national organizer therefore cut fifty. Thanks to both of you for joining us. Thanks for having me on I everyone I'm Shumita Basu from. WNYC filling in for ten Zena Vega and this is the takeaway. Christmas is almost here. But I'm sure I didn't have to tell you that Christmas music has been playing in stores since November Colorful Christmas lights have been up for weeks and commercials featuring Santa Claus seemed to be on a never ending loop but there are millions of people in this country. Three who don't celebrate Christmas at least not in the traditional sense we asked you how you celebrate the season in your own way. Here's the story of why we put a hit job on our Christmas tree. That's Isabela a New Yorker who happens to be the roommate of takeaway associate producer Jamaica. Verma this year. She has chosen to decorate her Christmas tree with a hit job. It's kind of funny because growing up. I did celebrate Christmas in a way but not necessarily early religious. The more so culturally. I grew up in a mixed household of Christian Pakistan Muslim beliefs and my dad never felt completely comfortable being from August on not celebrating celebrating Christmas himself. Growing up never felt comfortable giving presents or decorating the tree but did so for solidarity of my mother now. Isabella lives in a household with other people from the South Asian diaspora and with political turbulence around the world and especially hostility toward Muslims. uh-huh she says lacing the job on the tree demonstrates two things pride in her upbringing and a kind of solidarity so something as simple as putting the hip hop on a Christmas Christmas tree when everything else was happening all over the globe with the South Asian diaspora trying to disconnect. Just trying to separate US prove that we are different. This putting avenue. Christmas tree proves that we are one and the solidarity and this kindness. This love is in a way form of a little resistance in itself all right so we invited you to tell us how you put your own twist on Christmas. And here's what you shared with us. Hi I'm Darla from Portland Oregon as a child who divorced I. I celebrate Hanukkah and Christmas so the side of my family that celebrates Hanukkah actually like American culture than emphasis on gift. Giving maybe spend more my mom and I exchanged a Hanukkah to get two meal every year. My Dog got twelve hundred. Plus my name is Collette O'Connor and I'm from Halifax Massachusetts. We celebrate Christmas at my my home during the day. We make sure to call relatives. Who can't be here so everyone is thought of and the remaining days for sharing gratitude which we do with a quiet meal together in conversation? Nina dual from Richmond. California my a reaction to Christmas is unsettled. I do you not feel like there's acknowledgement of other people celebrating other things we're just been bartered with red and wight Chris. This is hi. This is Rick Tomase from Needham Massachusetts. We enjoy the trappings of Christmas. But we do try to. Emphasize is the significance of the holiday from the religious aspects. THIS IS BILL IN NEW JERSEY. What we do this time of year? Is something called friends miss. It's a lot like friends. Giving it's a multicultural winter activity that's specifically nonreligious. Basically it's a night of fun. It's a night of multinational national and multi-ethnic foods and it's time to play games and hang out with the people that you really love. Thanks for sharing. All of your thoughts. I'll share with you now all my spin on the holiday. This is my first married Christmas. My husband and I did the thing. A few months ago in a nondenominational ceremony and I was raised in a house that it didn't really celebrate Christmas. My Dad is Indian and my mom is Iranian now. My husband coming from an Italian family was an is really big. Uh on Christmas so this year I added a little flair to our Christmas free. I strung up our read. Gold White Indian garland's the girl is that we exchanged changed as part of our wedding celebration. I think they make a very fitting addition to our tree this year and I imagine for years to come and remember you can always give us a call and share. Are Your thoughts at eight. Seven seven eight my take now. We'll look at other ways that the Christmas creep influences the whole month of December namely its impact on another religious holiday to help. I understand the history of how Christmas shape Hanukkah celebrations in America. We're joined by two guests. Emma Green is a staff writer at the Atlantic where she covers politics politics policy and religion. Emma welcome back to the takeaway things so much and Jonathan. SAARNA is a professor of American Jewish history at Brandeis University Jonathan within thank you for joining us joy to Byu. Jonathan many people assume that Hanukkah is one of the most important holidays Judaism because of its strong cultural presence since in the United States. But that's not exactly true right not exactly true. In early America you would have a hard time finding much evidence. It's the Jews talked about. Hanukkah the high holidays or important Passover is very important hannukah really emerges emerges in the nineteenth century they talk about in the eighteen seventies the revival of the Jewish wish national holiday of Hanukkah and gift-giving actually shifts from another holiday known as Purim to Hanukkah and and then of course Hannukah is magnified through the twentieth century in response to the magnification of Christmas. And let me let Emma cut in there. Because you've written about this as well. Why did Hanukkah become the Jewish response to Christmas in the United States? You see in the middle of the Twentieth Twentieth Century after the war when Jews are moving to the suburbs there starting these synagogues and trying to join country clubs and in general general. Have the American experience that we think of so stereotypically in the nineteen fifties and I think we see that today were Hanukkah has now been elevated to be kind of the equal and opposite reaction to Christmas something to give Jewish children feeling that they can fit in just like the Christian children who are celebrating Christmas at their schools us. How are those efforts met? In the United States it was common to find Jews. Even Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis had a Christmas Christmas tree and lots of Jews sang secular Christmas carols. It's not surprising that some of those carols roles were really written by Jews like Irving Berlin about A White Christmas of the feel of the lights lights and so on but the East European Jews some of whom had very negative associations with Chris Smith's in the lands that they came from Remembering that these were a days when they were frightened persecuted. They certainly certainly were not going to take on Christmas. And as we move through the twentieth century we see Konica. Aw arising as a kind of Jewish answer to Christmas Cindy there were some Jews who tried to tell their children. Oh you're so oh lucky. Hanukkah is eight days of gifts but the sense was. Let's have something that distinguishes us us Emma sitting across from me and nodding her head here. How was Hannukah celebrated before it started to grow in popularity here in the US as a response wants to Christmas well one of the interesting things about Hanukkah religiously is that it actually doesn't have that much of a starring role role in the Jewish calendar? There aren't that many obligations that go with Hanukkah and you don't have to spend that much time in synagogue especially relative to Yunky poor four or Russia. Shawna what's interesting to me about. Hanukkah is that it has been able to take this out size role in the American public imagination in part because Jews were free to go out and celebrate publicly. They could take their minora to a friend's house or have friends over to light the candles but it's also because is it's kind of a low-key holiday and so there's a lot of freedom and flexibility about how people celebrate. Jonathan maybe you can talk to us a little bit more about efforts by Jews in the United States early on to adopt Christmas as a secular holiday. Do you think that Hanukkah could become secular in a similar way. I I think that there are many Jews who observe Hannukah who do not view it as having in deep religious content might even have a hard time talking much about its history And and in that sense it has grown secularize up but at the same time. I'm very struck. By how recent is that. Hanukkah did move into the public square as late as the nineteen fifties store. Windows did not have Konica Konica even in New York and a you didn't see minorities out on the streets that's really a development that begins wins in the nineteen seventies with the Kabba religious organization. And they actually have several court cases in which sure they have to fight for the right to have a Hanukkah minora in the public square. That right is eventually confirmed by the Supreme Court which really says that the Konica Minora is in a way equivalent legally speaking to the Christmas tree. If one could in the public square the other can be in the Public Square in fact Jonathan. I want to jump in here because Emma wrote about this decision and you found actually but the supreme court treated aided Christmas trees in public a little bit differently than Minora's and public is that right. Well one of the questions that was at stake here and there have been a series of cases about out. This issue is whether something like the Nativity scene which we see in All sorts of public spaces is the equivalent of the minora weather weather that can be in a government building or a government owned park. And there's a a sort of differentiation here that the court uses or the legal legal thinking uses which is to say there's a difference between some sort of overtly religious symbol that seems to be an expression of what the government believes or supports ports versus these communal symbols. That we now see ubiquitously even at a courthouse building or add a government administrative building. You you see that kind of equality and equal weight give into something that shows a public expression of what these various groups in the United States celebrate at this time I feel. There's a lot of hand wringing over the commercialization of the holidays whether that's Christmas or Hanukkah. How would you say that gift-giving has or has ever been part of the tradition of Hanukkah one universal principle that I think guides Christmas and Hanukkah and maybe even holiday holiday celebrations around this time for families? That don't celebrate. Those two holidays is that we love consumer capitalism here in the United States and right now at this season we see from every corner stores and malls everyone trained to incentivize more more gift giving and this is something that's lamented seasonally. Everyone trying to say. Oh these holidays you have a deeper meaning about family or about faith not about gift giving but really million American culture we see that this all consuming force this incentive to buy stuff especially for your kids has been able to take over these holidays days so in some ways even though Hanukkah has been set apart as a separate holiday I separate people there really is a lot. That's overlapping about Hanukkah and Christmas Christmas. We've been talking mainly about what happens when Jewish populations from other parts of the world I came to America and were attempting to assimilate but are there other examples of people from other religions other faiths coming to America and sort of adapting their practices to the American Christmas culture. Sure Jonathan another example of this is what we've seen with the wally as something festival of Lights Celebrated in this season of the year and there are other groups. I think that have learned from Jews that you can simultaneously be part of the season and apart from it which is really what I think. The Jewish community has tried to do over the the last two decades. Emma I feel like we've spent a lot of this conversation. Framing this as if only negative things have come out of the Christmas vacation of other other holidays but what the positive effects is a good for all of us in the US to share celebrations at this time of year. You know I think the story of Christmas is a very American story in the sense that as we've been discussing it's become a shared celebration. That has a lot of secular meaning and takes over over our shopping malls in our streets but it just as much of an American story to have different groups of people whether their ancestors came over as Jews who's in the nineteenth century to whether their parents and grandparents are recent immigrants from the seventies or eighties or nineties. And I think that's such an American story because in some ways this is a country that's made up of people who come from all of these different places and traditions and who figure out their own spin on those traditions in the American in context. There's so much diversity here. Around this time of year you see Orthodox Christians who celebrate Christmas a few weeks later than Roman Catholics or Protestants artists in much of the United States. You see Muslims. who have figured out ways like going bowling or trying to avoid shopping malls of relating to the Christmas celebration Gratien and you have a lot of families who are both families so both Hanukkah and Christmas or Christmas and a little something else or Hanukkah and a little something else? All all of these stories to me are very much the Americanise of this time of year people trying to figure out how their particular identity should be in relation to to this Reason for the season that we call Christmas. Emma Green is a staff writer at the Atlantic where she covers politics policy and religion and Donovan. SAARNA is a professor of American Jewish history at Brandeis University. Thanks to both of you for joining me. Think so maverick you this is the takeaway from WNYC NPR wrecks in collaboration with W. G. B. H.. Radio in Boston Wjr this weekend. The third and final installment of the latest Star Wars Saga hit theaters. The rise of Skywalker ties together. The previous eight films news in just under two and a half hours and in that time it also managed to sleaze in something that those other films left out that there are LGBTQ TQ plus people in a galaxy far far away and in the case of the LGBTQ community. You know it was. It was important to me that people go to see the smooth. Feel that they're being represented in the film. Director J.J. Abrams during an interview with variety earlier. This month in the lead up to the film's release. He hinted there would the real LGBTQ representations in the rise of Skywalker but when the film premiered last week it was finally revealed that two minor her female characters kiss during split-second seen many are saying it's yet another example of a major Hollywood franchise teasing LGBTQ Hugh Representation and then not following through in a meaningful way joining me now is Kyle Buchanan pop culture reporter at the New York Times Kyle. Hi Hi thanks for being on the show having also with me is emily vander were critic at large for Vox Emily Hi welcome. It's so great to be here now. I don't I WANNA spoil too much for our listeners. Who Haven't seen the movie? So let's leave plot aside as much as we can but both of you have seen the movie kyle. Maybe you can start by telling us about the same sex kissing in the New Star Wars movie and why it's gotten such a big reaction. Sure I'd be happy to tell you. Because I think people who've actually wash the movie if they blinked might have missed it so let me fill them in as well. There is an extremely brief moment in the third act. Where a character? We're who has had at that point. Maybe two lines certainly wasn't named kisses her female partner in a victory celebration of sorts parts goes by extremely fast. And you know it's that had been a thing that people had seen in nineteen seventy seven say when the first star wars film came out. It would've been pretty pretty significant but I think the irony here is that especially this last film. The rights of skywalker is doing so much. Try to satisfy fan demands. But it's it's not really doing it in a visionary bold way that would satisfy anybody's asks and requests and so even though there have been fans who've asked for the characters actors played by John Boyega and Oscar Isaac to have some sort of romantic relationship in Star Wars. This is sort of the SOP to that. And I don't think it's going to satisfy all that many people. Now we just heard the director J.J. Abrams a few minutes ago. That was him speaking during the press tour for the film and he mentioned Lgbtq Representation. He went out of his way to say it. In fact there are some critics who have called what he said now. A classic example of Queer Baiting. Emily maybe you can explain Ryan what that is so queer. Baiting is the idea that there is some sort of movie or TV. Show especially council happened with books or other forms of fictional media Where two characters who are presented as platonic friends within the text of the show then fans often become you know interested in the idea idea of them having a romantic relationship? An example of this from these new star wars movies would be thin and po who are not really presented as romantic partners nurse in that first movie. The Force Awakens but the Internet took that and ran with it and these future movies have sort of played to that interesting ways a far more egregious example was the TV show. Sherlock which recently aired with benedict cumberbatch and Martin Freeman and that show the fans started sort of shipping which means hoping to see two people. The end up together Sherlock and Watson on that show and Then yeah it did not did not transpire and it turned into like the creators of bathing. The those expectations without actually doing anything about it and you'll be really kind of a nasty way to deal with your phantom now to go back to star wars for a second and what Abrahams said during the press tour. Why the fake out? I guess it's easy to assume that dipping an ambiguous toe into LGBTQ representations is meant to appease certain audience who you want to see that representation without going so far as to anger more conservative audiences. How how much is it about that dynamic? It's definitely about out that dynamic like there is sort of this air of they're trying to sort of make the right people mad by which I mean the really extremist people who don't WanNa see any LGBTQ not queue representation and like you know if there's a two second kiss most of America's GonNa be like okay whatever but like they're also not trying to push the envelope in terms of that representation in ways that might force people to sort of rethink their preconceptions or their prejudices or anything like that. It's just like the least risky way eh to deal with this material but also in a way that gets them these headlines in you know publications that are like Oh bold new ground for the Star Wars Franchise when you see the movie and and it's literally nothing like that so it makes them get to seem progressive without actually having to be progressive. And that's kind of the way that they play their publicity game. I WANNA ask each of you. What meaningful representation would look like glad the LGBTQ media advocacy organization uses this metric that they made up? It's sort of similar to the back. Del Test they call it the Vito Russo test after glads co founder and to pass Vito Russo test. A film has to have a character that is identifiable. LGBTQ that character was not solely defined by their sexual orientation or gender identity and that character must be tied to the plot in such a way that their removal would have a significant effect. So emily why don't you start. Do those criteria sound right to you when we ask what is meaningful representation. Would you add anything to it. I certainly don't disagree with any of those criteria. I'm happy to have that sort of as a starting starting point but I think that you know there's room for stories about LGBTQ plus lives like that are actually about our lived experiences and it's not like they don't exist. There's plenty of great queer art made every year. It's just that it's not happening. In major studio franchise films I think if we're looking for a major studio franchise film to tell stories that you know fit that sort of glad description. It's not impossible but it's also like you know it's it's it's hard hard to talk about our identities and a nuanced way when aliens are invading the planet. Or something like that. So I I do think there is. There's room for improvement But a lot all the stuff that we're looking for is often happening like indie film and Television and you know stuff. That's supported by Patriarch by independent artists. I think emily is right. And I and I think that queer viewers just sort of gotten used to expecting looking for that representation elsewhere which is why it would be a significant new thing to see it in the form of the Superhero or science fiction spectacular and. I don't think it has to be you know as emily also said these films. Don't offense for very long to consider the you know the minutia of the characters in their lives but just the presence accounts for something. I mean. Events Endgame culminates with his finale. This orgiastic finale of dozens upon dozens upon dozens of characters. And you know wouldn't be so hard for just one or maybe a couple of those people to be on the spectrum somewhere That's how life is and if these movies are drawing from life and then making something super powered it just seems like a notable omission for the only only times for them to acknowledge that people exist is when they shuttle in a character for one sane. Kyle Buchanan is a pop culture reporter and award season in columnist at the New York Times and Emily Vander were is a critic at large for. Vox thank you both for joining us. And that's our show for today but we do WANNA keep hearing from our LGBTQ listeners. On this one. Do you feel represented in any Hollywood franchises. And how could the industry improve on clear representation. Send us a tweet at the takeaway or write to us on our facebook page and if you missed anything anything from today's show or you just want to listen back again check out our podcast. Thank you so much for listening. I'm WNYC's should meet the best. Sue Feeling very lucky to be in today A.. And tomorrow for Tanzania Vega this is the takeaway.

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Is the U.S. Ready to Reopen? 2020-05-04

The Takeaway

44:47 min | 1 year ago

Is the U.S. Ready to Reopen? 2020-05-04

"The when the worst of this is all over will begin to reopen but that process will not be cut and dried snobby versus album. Hell's it's that economics health lead to be working together. I'm Shumita Basu. In for tenzing Vega and for today on the takeaway may fourth. We're breaking down. How or if we'll be able to go back to normal after the pandemic then how leading Democrats have dismissed Tara Reid's sexual assault accusations against Joe Biden and what it means for the metoo movement. Do they actually believe any of the things they wrote? During the cabinet hearing also a look at the high cove nineteen death rate in nursing homes and long term care facilities and then how the Navajo nation is grappling with the virus with limited resources on the Navajo nation. We are looking now at a pandemic on top of epidemics that we currently have. Let's get to it across. The country states are starting to relax. Restrictions put in place due to cove nineteen even as the number of confirmed cases continues to climb and the death toll surpasses sixty seven. Thousand People. Experts say the pandemic could go on for another two years with subsequent waves of infection in the fall and winter. Still that hasn't stopped places like Georgia and Texas from allowing businesses to reopen on Friday governor. Brian Camp lifted the stay at home order. For most of Georgia's residents with an exception for people who are elderly or quote medically fragile who are required to shelter in place through June twelfth. We'll talk more about Georgia's reopening on this show in the coming days and elsewhere in the country stay at home. Orders are still going strong but in states like California and Michigan government officials are facing increasing backlash from protesters who want things to return to normal so far. The protests have been limited in size and people participating range from anti vaccination activists too far right extremists using the pandemic to push forward white supremacy still these protests and the reopening process in general raise serious questions about when and how states should resume business as usual. And what happens if we reopened too soon for more on this? We're joined by. Caitlyn rivers an epidemiologist at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security and Jeremy. You'd global health politics expert and dean of the College of Liberal Arts at the University of Minnesota Duluth. Thank you both for coming on the program. Caitlyn I think a lot of people here reopen and think that means go completely back to normal. So what does reopening state-by-state mean to you? That's right reopening is not going to be a light switch where one day we wake up and are able to do all of our normal activities. It's going to be a slow reincorporation of community activities back into our lives and so we might start with things that are low risk like more outdoor activities maybe some essential shopping locations the businesses that are asked to reopen. I will vary state by state but it certainly will not be all at once and then as we take that first step and start to reincorporate those activities. If things go well we can start to do more and we will proceed like that slowly. Jeremy a lot of the governors who are talking about reopening their states as quickly as possible. Keep saying that. It's an economic necessity. How fair is it to be thinking of this? As a sort of zero sum game economic health versus public health. I think if we frame it in that perspective we actually lose out on the bigger picture here. That's not about economics versus public hells. It's that economics in public. Health need to be working together and so if we think about this in terms of we have to do this for the economy. Were losing sight of the fact that if we reopen too quickly. What we're likely to do is to see another way to come slater on in the year and that wave could be as bad if not worse than what we're currently experiencing so even though there are the pains right now to go along with Having these restrictions in place it's actually better for us in the long run as opposed to opening up too quickly caitlyn. The federal government has released some guidelines on the reopening process including the criteria to consider. I've heard a lot of elected officials site new cases per day as a meaningful metric. When thinking about when to reopen is that the right way to think about it yes we do. WanNa see the start to slow before we consider reopening and keeping an eye on the number of new cases. Each day is one way to do that. Other metrics that are important. Are the number of people hospitalized both currently and new hospitalizations each day and the number of deaths and again those all us to understand whether we are in the acceleration face or whether are staying home to slow the spread has begun to break chains of transmission and slow the epidemic Caitlyn what are some of the approaches to reopening that we're seeing here in the US? And as I mentioned earlier Georgia was the first state to start doing this. So there are discussions about what industries are what segments of the economy can reopen and that does vary state by state. We've seen in Georgia that they are leisure activities. Personal services other states have chosen to focus more on businesses and so there are decisions that will vary about what will be allowed to reopen. But there's another side which is what's what is the public health approach to keep the community safe during not reopening and that site focus is really a lot on diagnostic testing and contact tracing. Those are the tools that will allow us to control transmission during that reopening process and that second public health part is pretty widely understood pretty Widely shared amongst states and again. That's diagnostic testing contact tracing. Yes so tell me where we stand on those two things right now. I know that Georgia has been saying the past. Few Days that they've pretty significantly ramped up testing But that's also from a very low number of tests earlier hauer states doing on on testing and contact tracing we have seen a pretty substantial expansion in our testing capacity last week the United States ran one point six million tests which is a great improvement over what we saw even earlier in April. But it's still not the level that many experts recommend recommendations range from about three point five million tests a week and go up from there and so there is still more room to grow and I think that's important to make sure that we're not just finding people with severe illness but really everybody with covert like symptoms and again that's to enable the second piece which is contact tracing. We have estimated along with the Association of State and territorial health officials that the US will need about one hundred thousand additional contact tracers and states have begun to make moves towards hiring those contact. Tracers again this is happening at the state level. So the the movement to hire those varies from place to place but there are efforts underway to expand our capacity to do that. What kind of skill set do you need to be a contact tracer? We recommend that contact. Tracers be familiar with the local community and they need to be comfortable with conducting interviews and collecting data. It is a skill position. But it's the kind of skill you can teach through maybe a decor or a couple day course in so. It's quite approachable. This is also a good opportunity to hire people who have not been able to work. Perhaps because they've lost their job because of the pandemic Now when we think about Vaccines and Therapeutics. And the timelines for those. How does that factor into how states can think about their plans to reopen? It's unlikely that will. We will have an effective therapeutic or vaccine in time to affect reopening plans. You probably heard in the news. Recently that any product by Gilliat is becoming an option for treatment which is exciting but that product is used late in the course of illness so when people are already quite sick in order for therapeutic to be useful to break transmission and to influence the epidemiology. We need something earlier in the course of illness. And unfortunately that's not available yet. Jeremy how much of a role is public pressure? Playing in reopening states. Like what we're seeing with some of these protests even though they're fairly small in scope. Yeah I think we can't underestimate the role that public pressure is played. And I think you hit it on the hit the nail on the head when you said that a lot of these protests that we have seen are actually other political movements that are glomming onto this but in a lot of places you are starting to see more of this public demonstration. That's taking place and governors are starting to feel pressure and I think what's actually going to be really complicated about this or puzzle of problems. Is that if we're going to do this? Sort of reopening governors have to be willing to step that back if the testing is showing that we are seeing an increase in the number of cases of the number of of hospitalizations is going up. Governors are going to have to be able to make that essentially difficult political choices. Say Okay I know. We opened up businesses. But we need to close some of those back down because we're seeing too much community spread and that's going to take a whole whole huge amount of political skill in order to be able to walk that back in the face of that potential political and public pressure Caitlyn. What do we know about the best practices around easing out of a lockdown in terms of walking back restrictions? We don't have a template because we are in a place we have never been before we have never asked everyone to stay home before. And so the exact right moves. I think are still a little bit uncertain. But we recommend that states start with low risk activities again. Those might be things that are outdoors. Things were social. Distancing is very possible. Make those first few moves and see how things go because it's much easier to pull back from low risk activities. That are unlikely to cause a great deal of transmission then to dive in with a mass gathering for example that might result in a lot of secondary cases. And then again you are in a place where you have a lot of community transmission and you have created the conditions that led us all having to stay home in the first place and so it's really about starting with low risk activties and proceeding slowly. Jeremy What lessons can we learn? From other countries that have already started the reopening process for example. I'm thinking about Singapore. And maybe you want to bring up other examples but Singapore was praised as having handled things really well from the start. They were testing extensively. There was contact tracing happening there but now the number of new cases per day is just shooting up. Their Singapore is a great example. I think of of the potential issues that can come up with this reopening because as you pointed out they received a lot of praise for their early and aggressive actions but we are seeing the second wave of cases and one of the things. I think is really interesting about the Singapore. Case is that it is is highlighting some of the existing social Cleavages that exist within Singapore so a lot of the new cases that are popping up in Singapore are happening among my workers who are oftentimes living in less than ideal conditions and so it it's reflecting some of these other sorts of social political and economic divisions that exist within society. So there are some issues there but we can look to to countries like South Korea. Which again lots of testing lots of contact tracing that has enabled these sorts of of moves to be able to to move forward and we're seeing some real potentially positive signs coming Austrailia New Zealand even the earlier today. They were talking about how they're thinking about creating a travel bubble where people who were in Australia. New Zealand would be able to travel between the two countries but they're still might be restrictions for people coming from other places but again it's that ability to do the testing to the ability to do that contact tracing and then the ability to use those data that are collected in order to inform the policy making process going to be so incredibly vital for making this Something that works. Caitlyn here on the takeaway we've been talking about the disproportionate impact of the pandemic on low income communities on people of color especially black Americans. Should we assume that reopening too soon would only further impact these populations the most? It's true that health disparities play out in so many different ways so I think one of the key pieces of missing data right now is understanding where people are getting infected even during being asked to stay home and I suspect that people who are still considered essential workers and participating in community activities are at higher risk in those will largely be under resourced communities communities of color low wage workers and so when we do reintroduce more community activities it will be still those people at risk and so. I think it's really important that we understand. How and why? New cases are arising so that we can take additional steps to protect people in those settings underlying health conditions and other factors that put people at risk for infection and for severe illness again. Disproportionately affect under resourced communities. And so I do think we will continue to see that. Show up in the epitome allergy doctor. Caitlyn rivers is an epidemiologist at the Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security and Jeremy. You'd is a global health politics expert and dean of the College of Liberal Arts at the University of Minnesota Duluth. Thank you both for joining us. Good to be with you thank you. It's been one month since tower. Read a former Senate staffer publicly accused former vice president. Joe Biden of sexually assaulting her in Nineteen ninety-three in early April. Two sources corroborated the details in her claims and last week two more sources came forward last Friday on MSNBC. Mika Brzezinski asked Joe Biden about the accusation. Would you please go on the record with the American people? Did you sexually assault Tara Reid? No it is not true. I'm saying unequivocally it never never happened. Joining us. Now is rich mccue. An investigative reporter and producer who has reported on Tara Reid's allegations for business insider rich. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me and also with us. Is Sarah Jones Staff Writer? For New York magazine. She's written about what this case means for the feminist movement and twenty twenty. Thank you for coming on the show. Sarah thank you so much for having me rich. Walk US through. What Tower read has said publicly? And what you've learned through your reporting so far so Atari came out with an allegation Lulu every year ago. Actually her first allegation was that there was sexual harassment. That was in a small paper called the the Union in in northern California. A month ago. As YOU'VE SET UP. Tara came out on a podcast. Katie Helpers radio show and accused Joe Biden of sexual assault so now all these years later. She's come forward and basically has this is what happened. But the number of voices have come forward in in corroborating parts of her story or them as a neighbor who. I spoke with Last week who live next to Tara in nineteen ninety five and ninety six and said look. She told me of this event in one thousand nine hundred eighty five. We're right next to each. We live right next to each other and You Know I. I've found her. Her voice compelling believable because she says look I am. I'm a lifelong Democrat. I will be voting for Biden but I know Tara. She's she's a good person. You need to understand this happened. And that's the reason I'm coming forward. I WANNA come back to what that neighbor had to say to you in in a few minutes but Sarah. It's no secret that many people have seen Joe Biden as a complicated figure to say the least way long before read came forward about her alleged assault and now that he's cleared the path to the nomination. He has promised that his running mate will be a woman. Can you sort of characterizes track record on women's issues you know Biden had built up a lot of a lot of goodwill over the years Thanks to the Violence Against Women. Act which he helped right He was a notable voice addressing the subject of campus sexual assault. But he was still complicated. Figure as you know Due primarily to handling of Anita Hill testimony during Clarence Thomas. Confirmation hearings and also on abortion rates Biden supported the Hyde Amendment which bans the use of public funds for abortion Until he his most recent Campaign for president so a bit of a mixed bag there at least from a feminist perspective. Rich one question that came up during Biden's MSNBC interview on. Friday was about the complaint. That Tara Reid says she filed at the time and Biden says at this document would be in the National Archives if it exists but you actually reached out to the National Archives. What did you learn from them? So I reached out to the National Archives and they said no that that document would not exist there they have no such document. I mean according to her if she filed it was with an office called the Fair Employment Practices Office and so that was the question. We'd ask said you know if there were a complaint file that office would be in the National Archives and they said No. So that's why there's this renewed focus on the University of Delaware and senatorial papers and it is there any way to unseal those documents. They're at the University of Delaware. Or is that something that Joe Biden would have to okay himself? I believe it's the latter we've tried. We've you know I I follow the foia request and a apparently senatorial papers and congressional stuff like that is immune to request and if you were able to foil for that kind of stuff I mean what would you. What are you hoping to find their? What else are you hoping to find their well? Away to prove or disprove this happened. You know if if there was a document that she filed a complaint. What does it say does she? Does she say what she's saying happened in? If at document exists still It would answer. A lot of questions are also said. She went through the proper protocols in up to check command telling people her supervisor's she felt uncomfortable. She felt Harassment over to the certain issue Before the assault and so she said those people were taking notes So where those notes if if you know if they still exist that that would shed a light on on this whole conversation. Do you have an understanding of weather? Tar read filed a complaint about the details about this alleged sexual assault or was it about this. That's number of complaints leading up to it from my understanding. It's not about the assault from everything she said to me. It's about the the events leading up to it in her. What she was feeling at the time right. So in terms of corroborating the actual events of that day What is Tara hoping we'll be out there to to support her claims well A good question. I I don't really know the answer to it. I I only know that we're tresor reporter. I'm trying to find other people who can say you know. Yes I remember you know I. I worked in an office in. This happened or you know I work in this office in. She told just the opposite. You know or whatever But you know we're just trying to do our job in and find more people who can shed light one way or another. Which in your reporting you spoke to an old neighbor of Taras who says that she remembers hearing about this alleged incident in the mid one thousand nine hundred and she believes in telling the truth she also said that she is a Democrat. Who plans to vote for Biden Sorry Jones from New York magazine. What do you make of that? It's interesting it doesn't me all that much. I think it makes a great deal of sense to believe that Joe Biden did do this but also consider him against the person of Donald Trump. Who's been accused of sexual assault and harassment by so many women and despite everything that Biden might be the lesser of two evils rich in claimed in his interview with MSNBC last week that two major papers show that reads allegations are not credible and Stacey Abrams who is a potential vice presidential pick for Biden was asked about this on. Cnn last Thursday. Let's listen to her. I believe that women deserve to be heard and I believe that they need to be listened to but I also believe that those allegations have to be investigated by credible sources. The New York Times did a deep investigation and they found that the accusation was not credible. I believe Joe Biden that Stacey Abrams speaking there rich McHugh. What do you make of what? She's saying there about the New York Times investigation. Well I think it's it's slightly disingenuous to two point to that and say they concluded their investigation because after I came forward with my piece with two more on the record sources both the times and the Washington Post put out new stories and added their voices to the reporting. And so I you know I have to imagine that the reporters at the times and the Washington Post would would never say. They concluded their investigation. And I certainly have not Sarah. You wrote in a recent piece that Tara Reid has given public feminists and ideological test and many are failing. What do you mean by that? Do they actually believe any of the things they wrote during the Cavanaugh hearings or or before that as me to I gained public momentum and you took down figures like Harvey Weinstein Matt Lauer. Charley Rosen and liberal figures like Al Franken. It seems to me that you know some people. Viewed story of of Brad Kavanagh in particular and saw Christine Blazey for its allegations about him as though that they were principally story about the hypocrisy of Republican men or of conservative Christian men and viewed it through an Electoral Lens. When in fact what people had been saying about me too is that you know this is a story about power and how it gets abused by people who wield it and that seems to me. Something that Some public feminists are forgetting in the wake of Tara Reid's allegations about Joe Biden and Sarah. Looking forward to the presidential election later this year at risk of simplifying it. I mean. What's a feminist to do. It's a it's a terrible position. It is absolutely the purse position for feminist to be in And I don't think that there's a simple resolution to it at all. You know what I was really trying to get at at my in my piece. Is that sense of exhaustion of frustration. The idea that you are continually cleaning up after men like Joe Biden who have such complicated legacies and by the time Tara Reid came forward. She had already accused Biden of sexual harassment and she was by no means the only one who accused him of some some version of boundary. Violating Behavior This is not an ideal situation you know. I think there's some credibility to the argument that given what the alternative is Women have to vote for him anyway but I do think that there should be. You know really. A cost were reckoning with the Movement. About what we're willing to settle for from the Democrat Party. Sarah Jones is a staff writer for New York magazine and Rich macos investigative reporter and producer at business insider. Thank you both so much for joining us. Thank you you saw. This is the takeaway. I'm Shumita Basu a disproportionately high number of covert nineteen deaths in the US have been linked to long term care facilities like nursing homes and assisted living communities now a new estimate from USA. Today shows more than sixteen thousand deaths have been linked to nursing homes and long term care facilities Elaine Godfrey reporter for the Atlantic was reporting on why the death toll has been so high at long term care centers when her own grandmother died at a facility in Minnesota. Elaine thank you for being here. Thanks so much for having me and let me just say I. I'm I'm really very sorry for your loss. Can you tell us about what happened to your grandmother? Yeah Thank you for saying that. So my grandmother was ninety four years old. She lived in Minnesota at an assisted living facility and she had for several years. We didn't know that she was sick. She was dizzy and fell down one night and went to the hospital and at the hospital. They tested her for Corona virus. A few days later it turned out that she had it but otherwise she had no fever at first anyway she didn't have other respiratory symptoms really. It was really surprising to us. You know it was really fast. She died within just a few days of of her fall. Oh I'm so very sorry now. I I know that this is very personal for you but you also have done some reporting on this now and you've been talking to experts and other families is typical experience. I think it's a typical experience in the speed of it. Elderly people show different symptoms. There have been some studies that have shown that that elderly people show atypical symptom. So they don't necessarily have a fever they don't necessarily Had these respiratory symptoms that. We're seeing their symptoms. Sort of run the gamut and. I think it's important for people to know that the thing that is in common across the board is just the speed with which people become sick. Someone that I talked with in Virginia at a nursing home in Richmond Virginia told me as she was sort of working. The floors people would show signs of general illness or fatigue and then very very quickly become bedridden immediately. Lose their to move around by themselves and they'd have to be sent to the hospital So it was. It was very very common that within just a few days This this disease cold. Can you give us a sense of the real scope of this like we said at the top that at least sixteen thousand corona virus deaths have been linked to long term? Care facilities. Is that accurate? It's almost certainly an undercount Because we just. We don't have the numbers. We haven't tested everyone. We we are not sure at this point. Who's actually died of the virus that complications related to the virus In Minnesota where my grandmother lived some seventy percent of all corona virus deaths in the state have been linked to nursing homes and assisted living in six other states. Which which again. It could be more because not all states have reported their total numbers but in six other states at least half of their current virus deaths are residents and workers at these places that the scope of this is just enormous. You say it's not just about the health of that population. It also has to do with under investment in these types of facilities. Can you talk about that? And what? You've reported on a lot of the nursing homes. That are really struggling right now. They have a lot of patients. Paying through Medicaid Medicaid Reimburses these facilities at a pretty low rate compared to insurance most of the time or or private pay so these facilities aren't necessarily breaking even on the care that they're providing for people. Another part of this underinvestment. Is that many of these facilities are privately owned and sometimes the owners? You know any any money that the facility is able to make that money is used to pay shareholders. Basically this underfunding means often. These facilities are short on staff often residents have to share rooms and bathrooms which is not a great way to prevent infection spread. A lot of these facilities are struggling with a lack of P p. e. personal protective equipment. The kind of thing you have to wear when you're going room to room to room every day With these very very vulnerable people elaine. I want to turn to the question of people working in these facilities. Who are they and what are they facing? The majority of workers who make up staff at these nursing homes and assisted living facilities are certified nursing assistants. These are people who bathe patients feed them. Take care of their daily needs. There are some of the lowest paid healthcare workers in America. Most make less than fifteen dollars an hour. They're mostly women often. They're immigrants and many live in multi generational homes. They are taking care of older parents who are similarly vulnerable or young children. They are working multiple jobs. They might work at multiple nursing homes. They might have totally different jobs. But it means either way that they're being exposed to this virus at other places and potentially bringing it into the building so all of these factors sort of combined to make a really really deadly scenario for these these residents and end for staff In your piece you also raised the issue of testing and how proper testing could have dramatically reduced the spread of the virus especially in these types of facilities. And this is something that we've talked about in general a lot on this show but can you explain what you mean specifically in the context of nursing homes and long term care so we knew before this virus hit the US that the elderly were most vulnerable and that a symptomatic people could likely spread the virus so we knew those two things yet the CDC here in the US prioritized hospital patients and healthcare workers who showed symptoms to get tests over Nursing Home Residents. Who ARE SYMPTOMATIC? And over people who didn't show symptoms but might work or live in these high risk places the CDC announced that they're sort of switching up their priorities so now they include nursing home residents and workers with symptoms as high priority but either way healthcare policy experts that I spoke with said this is all wrong. It doesn't really help. They want there to be universal testing. So they're saying test. Everyone facilities. Why from the beginning did we not send tests to these facilities and require that all workers and all residents take them regardless of symptoms since they're such hotspots and since there have been so many fatalities in these places was an issue of bad prioritization from the beginning or were there not enough tests? Definitely both are big issue in this country with the response to this virus has been. We don't have enough tests. We did not ramp up testing quickly quickly enough so the CDC definitely had to make a hard choice there right. How do we prioritize what limited supply we have but experts say we knew that the quote unquote death traps would be nursing homes and assisted living facilities where people can't leave where they live in close proximity where they're already immuno-compromised or frail? So they're saying it was just a big mistake to begin with and they're saying that it emphasizes or reveals our pre existing disregard for older people in this country. That was a big point. That all of these experts Continued to me. You mentioned the recent change in prioritization for testing. Have we seen any other changes or are there any on the horizon at the state or federal level? The trump administration is doing their best to invest more money in rapid tests for residents and workers of nursing home. So we know that the governor of Maryland issued an executive order Telling all nursing homes to test everyone So so advocates are really happy about that. They say it could be too little too late. But you know if every governor said that. Let's prioritize these nursing homes. We could really stop a lot of these deaths. Elaine what do you want people to take away from your reporting and from your very personal story that you've shared here about your grandmother. I guess I'd say that we are all worried about contracting this virus our loved ones contracting this virus. I would say that we should all spare a thought for the nursing. Home residents assisted living residents and workers. Who are quite literally. You know at the epicenter of this crisis. They are really in quite a a fragile state right now if we could spare a thought for them Send SOME MEALS. Some extra extra p. p. e. their way and going forward. I think we should think about how we prioritize these vulnerable people people who are our parents and our grandparents Elaine Godfrey a reporter at the Atlantic. Elaine thank you very much. Thanks so much for having me and we've been hearing from some of you who work in long term care facilities or who have family working in one. I'm calling from New York. My name is not just an works at a long term care facility level of disrespect that they've been seeing towards not only the workers but also the patients is just atrocious. They've had times where they have had multiple debts. Five six seven eight. That's within a twenty four hour period. People have been out sick with Kobe. Symptoms no one has said anything to them and allowed them to still get sick. Ppa has not been provided to them the administrative state. Nothing they still have yet to say. Thank you to the staff or show any kind of dedication that these people are doing and the harnessing themselves into it is beyond fully. Hi this is Linda calling from West Palm Beach. I have a sister in Atlanta Georgia who works as a physical therapist and senior living facility Her patient was diagnosed with Kovac nineteen. she was alerted and had to take a test. My sister's initial test came back positive. She had to pay hundred sixty five dollars or that. Test has filed a workman's comp claim to subsequent tests proved that she is negative so three tests total and she is no longer working. Thank you nurses that long term care facilities develop close relationships with their patients and their families this gut wrenching for them to lose their patients like this when my sister was six. You repeatedly blamed herself and thought that she was a failure so far from the failure just and fighting through possible odds help as many people as she can to be healthy and safe. Everyone needs to support her and her colleagues in arms by staying home and staying healthy this virus not a joke and it should not be taken lightly. My name is Becky and calling for Morris County New Jersey. Tell us your experience working in a nursing home or assisted living facility. You can call us at eight seven seven eight. My take while densely populated states like New York New Jersey have been hit hard by cove. Nineteen the area with the third highest infection rate in the country is the largely rural Navajo nation according to NPR to date the Navajo Department of Health has reported more than twenty three hundred confirmed cases of Corona virus and more than seventy deaths out of nearly twelve thousand tests in order to understand why the Navajo nation has been hit so disproportionately. It's important to look at the broader healthcare picture for the tribe decades of federal underfunding of the Indian Health Service have resulted in understaffed and under resourced medical providers and the US Department of Agriculture considers most of the Navajo nation. A food desert due to a limited number of grocery stores and access to fresh produce on the Navajo nation. We are looking now at a pandemic on top of epidemics that we currently have. We have the highest rates of diabetes and heart related food related diseases and this is something that has been an issue pre-coded that's Denisa Livingston a tribal DNA citizen denies the name that Navajo Nation members used for their tribe. Denisa is a community health advocate with the DNA community advocacy alliance as well as the slow food international indigenous counselor of the global north. I spoke with her to get a better sense of what grassroots efforts to combat covert nineteen look like on the Navajo nation and she began by telling me about the work being done to get food and water to tribal citizens currently in need. We see donations coming in including water supplies. Ppe's and and food And that has been a very challenging ordination of breaching all of our citizens across three states as we're looking at the size of places like West Virginia and trying to channel in and also help those that are greatest need in the remote areas of the denomination and Some projects that have also continued to operate. Is the water project. It's called dig deep and one. Third of our dinette. People do not have a sink or toilet and also one third do not have every day water access and so they're hauling water and even in this case they pay about sixty seven times more for water that they hall versus pipe water. And so when we're looking at the food access and the water access. It is a critical urgency and cry out to to be able to to try to meet the needs of our people Denisa. Are you seeing efforts to build trust between health officials and Navajo nation leaders and members during this pandemic? Of course I cannot speak on behalf of the tribal government and and also the healthcare facilities as a concern tribal member in also community health advocate. It is very concerning that the narratives that we see in the stories and what we're going through and families and what they're experiencing do not match the numbers that we see. We know that there is under testing. We know that there's a lack of transparency even when we're speaking about the eastern dramatic terms So of our folks have called and messaged emailed and see what does that mean. The terminology is also not out of the public health education. That should be of course. Our tribe in community members have been creating culturally sensitive. Psa's and announcements regarding this but really understanding the depth of covert nineteen and how the symptoms operate and also held the virus mutates. And I know that folks are doing what they can but we still need to be able to engage the community at large when it comes to Public Health Education. It tell me more about the Public Health. Messaging particularly in regards to being culturally sensitive. What does the messaging look like to connect to your community members right now so some of the messages are in our language and also? Some of the messages are more geared towards protecting our elders as we know they are very precious to us and as we know that the knowledge holders and wisdom barriers and so there is that question you know. How do we you know our tech them? In a way that the community members of family members know exactly you know how to navigate that process washing hands is also a concern when it comes to the situation because washing hands is also affecting the cultural practice that we have acknowledging each other by shaking hands and finding ways that we don't show disrespect and before we were fist bumping and also elbow bumping. But now you know just allow in our community members to know that it's not out of disrespect that we can't shake hands but let's be mindful and also honor one another's presence in a way that you know that were honoring one. Another without shaking. Hands has also been something that people have been talking about but also Some of the other terms to that we're trying to bring awareness at DCA are the terms of self isolation. They we have to be mindful of what we use these terms of what self isolation myself Corinthian quarantine in remote areas as we know these are just recommendations. And this also goes you know for my grandma. Grandma lives in remote area and I spoke with her the other day and she said you know we're told to stay inside her house and she said I've just been staying inside when my grandma's act if she's outside she's normally planting she's normally taking care of the seeds and at this time doing that effort the second time I called To check on her how you doing. She said we're still staying inside so the messaging. That's coming from the top down as well needs to be in a way where yes it applies in most situations but what about when my grandma or other community members have neighbors that are not you know a few feet away or down to hallway but are you know miles even space in in a way where you know. They don't have that contact with one another so I told her. Grandma is you know it's okay to plant your seeds. It's okay to get outside and so really looking at these terms as we're looking at different cultures and and of course you know here in the US you know. There are mini cultures and many practices as we are heating. You know to the CDC's recommendations or recommendations coming from the top down. But what are those? Messages? What are those things to improve our ways and practices to be proactive rather than being reactive at this time into skill impact from the community members perspective and also in solidarity in Collaboration Partnership With One. Another about overcoming. The place that we are at right now. Denisa Livingston is a tribal deny citizen and community health advocate with the DNA community advocacy alliance Denisa. Thanks very much for being here. Thank you very much. That's all for us today. Thank you so much for joining us. We want to let you know that we'll be staying on a few stories all week long following our conversation today about long term care facilities. We'll look at the effects of extended isolation on the elderly many of whom were battling the health effects of loneliness at this moment and will keep talking about what it means to quote re open the US by zooming in on Georgia's efforts and asking what we can learn from past pandemics to plus we'll hear from you about how you think daily life will have changed when the worst of all of this is behind us. I probably won't go to the grocery store every day. I think one thing will keep is have less structure for kids weekends especially saved a lot of money to share your take on this or anything else by leaving a message at eight seven seven eight might take or by sending us a tweet at the takeaway. Thank you so much for listening. I'm should meet the best sue in for Tanzania Vega and this is the takeaway.

Joe Biden Tara Reid United States assault Georgia Jeremy Sarah Jones MSNBC New York magazine Caitlyn reporter College of Liberal Arts Democrats Movement Johns Hopkins Center for Healt Elaine Godfrey Shumita Basu Denisa Livingston University of Minnesota Duluth
A Apple lana o seu prprio podcast de notcias dirias

RSS News I O Podcast de Not�cias para Podcasters

08:08 min | 10 months ago

A Apple lana o seu prprio podcast de notcias dirias

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Coastal Communities Weigh Health Risks as Public Beaches Open 2020-05-26

The Takeaway

45:04 min | 1 year ago

Coastal Communities Weigh Health Risks as Public Beaches Open 2020-05-26

"It's officially beach season and people along the coasts are hitting the waves. But how safe is fun in the Sun during a pandemic? Don't want people to not enjoy their summers? I walked people fully. Enjoy it but let's just kind of keep some of these things in check and balance it out against some of these other risks that we know are out there. I'm Shumita Basu in for ten Vega and for today on the takeaway Tuesday may twenty six. We take a look at how Kobe nineteen could affect our beach. Time also on the show how Indonesia is handling the coronavirus pandemic Bowie. We are saying is just a steadily growing up relentless curves so it's becoming a real problem for this country then why some medical professionals are running for political office. I think that doctors are sort of rising to the challenge and really asking the question. Why are our voices not being heard but I to beach or not to beach with Memorial Day weekend behind us and the warmer weather into high gear? This would normally be the perfect time to start heading to the beach and while public beaches are beginning to open in many coastal states. Officials are putting a number of restrictions on these spaces due to the pandemic in many areas. Parking lots and public restrooms are closed. Group sizes are limited and stationary activities are discouraged and while images of crowds swarming. Beaches have been singled out as evidence of the danger of keeping them open. During a public health crisis. Beaches are considered a fundamental part of so many communities take. New York's fire island which for decades has been a summer gathering place for LGBTQ PEOPLE. Most businesses there are closed only offering limited service but local leaders are keeping the beaches open and encouraging visitors to enjoy them responsibly. But what exactly does responsible beach behavior look like during pandemic what we're trying to encourage is that we continue to have a stance for observing physical distancing masking as much as possible hand hygiene as much as possible. Those are things that are difficult in the normal seen at each so. I think it's going to be abnormal times when people do go to the beach and try to do it in a socially responsible way. That's Dr Wilbert Chen and adult infectious disease specialist at the University of Maryland. School of Medicine. He's also a member of Maryland. Governor Larry Hogan's Covid Nineteen Response Task Force. I spoke with him to get a sense of how to safely enjoy beaches and other public outdoor spaces. The summer. We've been cooped up with our own families for a period of weeks and months now so it's it's perfectly reasonable to go to the beach with your family. Throw the Frisbee around kick the ball around play in the water but then to introduce additional families again. Up Less is better. There may be different Executive orders or or policies and procedures that are in place so from beach to beach. They there may be a limitation in the group size. And over time those might open up so it might be ten at first it or it might be five at first whatever it is. I certainly want the listener to adhere to those local guidelines and policies but then again just to be in the background. Planning to be responsible. Even if there's an allowance of Twenty people twenty people may not be the best to try to always achieve the Max Numbers. So you know. I think that that's what I want. People to keep in mind is try to balance out those activities with what you think really is necessary. Are there different. Health concerns when you think about going to a public pool verses of Public Beach in instances yes there are of course at the community pool. It's another scene. It's a community meeting place. And so a lot of us bring our young children and they played together and of course. We all have to use the shared facilities. That's the shower or the toilet sinks the Snack Bar. All of those are surfaces that were all contacting and that's very similar to the beach. Actually that's not really very different. Main the pool of course. The pool water is chlorinated. So I I don't think that the pool itself the pool water itself represents a risk and so again we just have to be mindful that When we go to the pool it's probably just a different attitude when we go to the pool just as we have a different attitude to go to the beach. I'll also mentioned that. There are lifeguards. Both at the pool and the beach and the poor lifeguard. Their job is to take on the risk of doing mouth to mouth and CPR for a person in distress. And so again when you have more people that again are introducing that risk to that location. I don't know if those lifeguards are being compensated enough to take on this additional risk of of knowing that they could get it so I just want people again. Let's think about this social responsibility. Am I doing this to my community for my own benefit? Am I doing it in a kind of public space where I'm being responsible personally and demonstrating that behavior? So let's just think about all of these attitudes and try to balance this out. I don't want people to not enjoy their summers. I want people to fully enjoy it. But but let's just kind of keep some of these things in check and balance it out against some of these other risks that we know are out there. I mentioned earlier. That you are on the COVID. Nineteen Response Task Force in Maryland. And as I'm looking at responses and other states and how they're dealing with their beaches it does seem like there is a bit of a patchwork. How much does that start to complicate the work of public health officials? Yes it does make it more complicated and again honestly there are some places in a particular state that might have a different burden of disease which means that some parts of where I'm at in Maryland can open up earlier than other parts. We have a lot of burden of disease in the central corridor of Maryland. And some were not ready to open up their but in western Maryland where it's mountainous and then on the eastern shore where we have the ocean you know. They have low rate so they can open up faster than they than we can't hear in the central corridor so of the worry and concern is that will have transmission just by introduction of people coming from outer lying either states or counties into the you know other counties that have low incident so for example you know some people might have their summer cottages in the mountains or the or at the beach and again. I'm hearing from some of the The local governments and officials. You know we don't want people to come in and bring that this these infections because we don't have a lot of hospitals here we don't have a lot of heads we don't have issues and so to bring that in you. Know brings a another concern for the ability to deliver adequate medical care to their local community and it makes it harder for them. Honestly so you know. The governor has to kind of negotiate all of this and it's his authority to govern from the state level but You know local governments have the authority to govern over their jurisdictions as well. So you know we. We don't want a pit government against government local against state or otherwise. We want to be thoughtful in work together. Dr Wilburton is an adult infectious disease specialist at the University of Maryland School of Medicine. Thank you very much Dr Chen. It was my pleasure. We're going to stay at the beach just a little longer today and look at Florida and California we're beach. Culture is seen as an essential part of life and efforts to limit access to beaches have been criticized by many residents and county officials. My next two guests have been closely following. How beach openings are going in their respective states. Patricia Mazeikiu is the Miami Bureau chief for The New York Times. Thank you for being here. Patricia My pleasure and Rosanna. Shah is an environment reporter covering the California Coast for the Los Angeles Times. Heidi you Zana. I happy to be on so resent what did beaches in California. Look like over Memorial Day weekend. What's closed what's not. Yeah for the most part folks have been good and you know things got pretty intense for a while but as of last begin every county in along the California Coast Hud at least partial reopenings Some of the parking lots in Los Angeles County were still closed. Were some dramatic photos from places like manage speech in the boardwalk. But for the most part I was talking to local officials yesterday and they said that the crowds were mostly under control. And people really get it that you got up practice safe distancing while you're out on the beach no umbrellas no coolers no woman on the sand with a bunch of friends and the only thing I think police said at least Nellie county was that they wished they saw more people wearing face masks when not in the water. Yeah it was pretty. It was pretty good. You said that things got pretty intense there for a well. What are you referring to? Oh I mean Yeah Beach Access. I mean it's been what like to. I've lost track of time like two months of closures but accidents in general is a very emotional issue in California for listeners. Who aren't in California. We have this pretty unique law that guarantees that all beaches are public access to the coast is a right and I spend so much time usually writing about how this law the coastal act gets enforced. What government agencies are doing to make sure that everyone has equal access to the coast and now with Kovic for the last couple of weeks months? It's been like we're closing all beaches. People were getting ticketed for surfing rather than putting up fence to make your own private beach and that really just has upended. Everyone's relationship to the coast. So I think it was just very emotional issue in California especially at the time when everyone is starting to go to the coast more often and it's getting hotter in Lyndon. Yeah this past weekend was just a really nice respite for a lot of folks and Patricia. You're in Florida. I understand that Miami saw a lot of rainfall over this Memorial Day weekend. What did the beaches look like in Florida? Well Miami and Fort Lauderdale are still places where the beaches are closed other to open on June first so I think at least there was so much rain and the beaches were closed. That right here at the the state southern end it was sort of like okay. Well the weather didn't cooperate anyway But in the rest of the state the beaches were opened with various levels of restrictions in some cases no restrictions and the most crowded areas. Were know the most populous areas so in Tampa they had to start closing parking lots after the authorities deemed them to be two full in Daytona. They had big crowds especially coming in from the Orlando area and they said they saw maybe ten thousand people at the beach there on Saturday. Which was regular Memorial Day numbers not lower than usual according to The police and they said people were social distancing to an extent but they acknowledge that they wish there had been more spacing between people. But the police also said you know. We're not the social distancing police. We are not here to make sure people stay six feet away from each other sort of a matter personal responsibility and they had issues there earlier on during the reopening when they had limited access to exercise so people could not lay down on a toddler bring their umbrella and the beach safety patrol which normally would be sort of welcoming people to the beach and sort of trying to keep them safe had become this sort of social distancing entity where they would have to go to group and say you guys are lingering when you need to be exercising and then as soon as the patrol moved on the group would go back to lying down and not exercising so they sort of gave up on that approach because they realized that it was just not enforceable. And that's really the reason why places like Miami and Fort. Lauderdale have taken this long to open because they have so much coastline in so many people that they said we just can't enforce many rules With expecting rules to come down soon ahead of the June first opening and masks might be part of those in Miami. But we'll see how enforceable that is specially hearing from Zana's experienced in California and Patricia just briefly in about thirty seconds. Rosanna was saying how emotional this is for Californians. Is it similarly emotional for people in Florida? Oh absolutely people who live here tend to have a beach that they consider their beach Because it is where they go with your family on any break that they have And sometimes you sort of just become you forget that you're near the beach and you don't go that often but for a lot of people that is the one free respite that they have outdoors Rosanna. What has California Governor Gavin newsom 's position been on beaches? And how much has he clashed with? localities yeah. There was this one clash a couple of weeks ago with one Specific County Orange County and it was following a weekend. I think it was the first super warm weekend in southern California on April the or it might have been may but you know after seeing the photos. Governor newsom said okay all beaches in Orange County has to be close until every city submits a plan to my office outlining. How exactly you plan on managing crowds. You know that was. There was a push back on a couple. I think at least one city sued on their rates over that. But you know within a week. Every city had submitted plans had improved for a partial you when I say partial reopening limited parking. Lots were opened some hours. You know and look for a while you can only go to the beach from six am to eleven. Am and then during the middle of the day you couldn't go active recreation only so no one could sit down Sunday those mostly for running for surfing for individual kind of active beach activities. But you know for the most part I mean the California coast is one thousand two hundred miles long shots from Boston to Georgia and there are a lot of different beach communities up and down the coast some rural some super urban like Orange County in Los Angeles County so the rules have been different depending on what's needed to prevent overcrowding for the most part. The the governor's office and the Coastal Commission which is the statewide agency. That's usually in charge of regulating. The coastline have deferred to local officials and how to manage beaches and I think the one the clash was the one. Twin Governor is newsom and Orange County and that was just because the localities were not really they were looser. I guess about management and so. That's when the governor kind of put his foot down and Patricia. What about in Florida? How would you characterize Governor Rhonda Santa's approach to beach openings and working with localities? His approach has been to let this be decided at the county and city level. There was never an order to close down all the Florida beaches or any of them the when they closed it was on a county by county basis and usually if a county didn't want to close it was forced to eventually when it's neighboring counties did and they found an influx of people in the county that still open There were some internal debates with local governments. We saw for example in some emails that we obtained in Saint Johns County. Which is where. Saint Augustine is just south of Jacksonville where the medical examiner had been the county administrator police close down the beaches because the county had an unusually high corona virus infection rate and she was a turned away like the county administrator explained his reasons and said we're not doing it but then they eventually did because Jacksonville closed down its beaches. People were just going into Saint Augustine in Naples on the Gulf coast. They had to briefly. Close the beaches after reopening them earlier this month because of the crowds open to them up again and in south Florida which is seen the the bulk of the brunt of the cases in the pandemic it was never really in question that the counties were going to stay closed a little bit longer and even Broward County which is where Fort Lauderdale is wanted to open sooner but knowing that people from Miami might drive up to Fort Lauderdale. They decided to wait until until when Miami made up its mind and then finally the Florida keys have been avoiding having that influx from outsiders by by having a roadblock where only residents can be in the keys and that's going to be lifted in June an who stands to lose access if public facilities on beaches are closed or limited is it mostly residents. Or how much is Florida thinking about tourism? For the summer tourism is a is a big concern especially in communities that rely on people coming down and like renting a house on the beach know vacation rentals have been a real issue they were prohibited a during you know weeks and weeks during the pandemic and finally the governor said you know if you want to allow rentals in your county again and you have to send me a plan on how you're going to safely do that. For example in the panhandle along the Gulf coast where vacation rentals are key to the local tourism economy. They were quick to submit a joint plan and part of the plan for example was that they would not rent to people who were coming from places that high had a high incidence of the virus. So for example if you were coming from New York City. We're not going to be able to rent a house in Pensacola Beach and Rosanna. What about in California if beach parking lots and even the public facilities of public bathrooms stay closed in California this summer. Who Will it impact the most? That is a great question. I mean beach. Closures here have raised interesting Equity Issues. And you know most of the local jurisdictions that have been managing crowds. They've been managing crowds by limiting which parking lots are open or enclosing keeping the bathrooms closed. And all the public facilities and by doing that. What you're essentially doing is creating a situation where those who are fortunate enough to live. Walking or biking distance to the beach can still go and kind of plan for even like a twenty minute. Walk along the beach and then go back to your own home for about for the bathroom or not park but those who live further inland. Who are trapped in heat zones or by freeways or don't even live in enough neighborhoods to walk around the ones who literally plan entire Saturday with the whole family and they talk the van or they take the bus all the way out there and they're the ones that end up not getting any access to the beach during this time and this is an issue that we talk about a lot in California. You know whenever we talk about Knox's issue with specific beach a lot of the time it's nitpicking. How many parking spots are available for that specific beach because parking is such a part of the access component when we talk about allowing folks who don't live by the coast to access the coast so that's been a really challenging issue that I've seen a lot up another ghost? Patricia MS as the Miami Bureau chief for The New York. Times and Rosanna is an environment reporter covering the California Coast for the Los Angeles Times. Thank you so much to both of you. Thank you thank you over the last couple of months. We've been checking in with communities across continents about how the coronavirus pandemic is affecting life now. We had over to Indonesia where the number of confirmed cases of covid nineteen has been steadily growing. While cases and other parts of Southeast Asia have been decreasing. We should note though that compared to its population size. The percentage of cases in Indonesia isn't like what we're seeing in the United States but a sharp increase could overwhelm the developing nation one of the largest countries in the World Today. Indonesia reported new daily highs of coronavirus cases and earlier in the month. The government banned domestic travel during one of the largest Muslim holidays of the year. Leedle fitter that just passed this weekend. We go to Tom. Allard the Reuters chief correspondent in Southeast Asia who lives in Indonesia's capital Jakarta to hear more. Hi Tom and welcome to the takeaway. Thank you should make now now. Has there been a rise in new coronavirus cases in Indonesia? Well Indonesia has got a kind of unique coroner infection Profile really at the outset The government was extremely confident that they wouldn't have a problem that will bidding on the the hot weather. They'll braiding on prayer. The Health Minister Spike Very highly of the impact of Chris is to Develop the con of social distancing responses and other measures that we've seen elsewhere in the world but neither the praise work to an extent in that it seems that the we haven't seen as you said in your intro the kind of explosive growth that we seen in the US and perhaps the hot weather is out of that. Run that But we are saying is just a steadily growing outward relentless curve so they are It's becoming a real problem for this country because You know they don't have the money that on the hospital system to cut with a major outbreak and already because of the somewhat belated measures to Restrict travel to Implement social distancing so many people of lost their jobs. We're talking maybe. I think we'll talking about thirty percent of people. Were on social welfare now. Seventy percent so the the government said we're GONNA run out of money at the end of July We can't continue so they've got a real dilemma here because I want to kick start the economy. But at the same time the current of ours fiction just catch rausing their concerns that the Indonesian government isn't telling the truth about the virus or reporting cases accurately. Yeah it's it's a big problem in the president of Indonesia in in mid March Rather frankly in Amazingly said look with withholding information from the public. We don't WanNA panic and that that if you think about public health crisis is probably what you don't side because it created a lot of Anxiety and questions about what exactly the government is telling it and To be sure the government has been reluctant to provide some very critical data. That epidemiologist want here in terms of suspected cases who have which are enormous and And the true number of deaths and underlying. This dilemma is that Indonesia has one of the lowest testing writes in in in the world. Something like a hundred and fifty people per million have been tested thus far so It's extremely lies so everyone is In the dark and that's created a faded glory as I said of anxiety poppulation town. Despite the recent rise in cases the government opened up domestic travel after it had restricted it about three weeks ago. Why the reversal? Well I mean simply put one of race. Stop the economy. And they say this is a as a measure. The way that they're trying to Against Ameliorate the negative effects that would have on. The coronavirus is sprayed to force everyone to wear masks. And to enforce social distancing and that type of thing but You know the jury is out. Shall we say With that's going to be a successful strategy. I mean as you mentioned early. It's it'll fishery at the moment and that's a great occasion. Full must into nations. It's the biggest Muslim country in the world. Majority country in the world and everyone returns home to their villages for Foot to celebrate this occasion with family and friends this past weekend right. It was tomorrow Dan. That's rod and finished literally finish yesterday that so the government extensively band music but that was the official policy but as you SI- began to open flights up and basically a lot of people left anyway and so despite all Pleading from the government to stay at home to do video conferencing or whatever to communicate with the families a lot of Time and we send a lot of images of huge crowds gathering to pray together to chance to chant llahu Akbar and the the fear. Is that down. The line in the next couple awakes is GONNA lead to a another surge in corona virus infections earlier you alluded to Indonesia's healthcare system not being well equipped to handle a surge in new cases. Can you describe a little bit? How the healthcare system there works. Yeah well look. It's it's never been a priority for the Indonesian government. They've begun to throw a lot of money into infrastructure to a lesser extent education but health is always down the bottom of the label satisfied. So you're talking about full hospital beds. Per Ten thousand people in Indonesia is the that's probably ten times less than most developed countries in the world. So if the coronavirus right of infection continues to climb you're gonNA find a lot of That the hospitals will become quickly as a wellness. I mean we're talking here. It's country of two hundred sixty four two hundred and seventy million play. I ask ventilators and that includes ventilators for Premature babies which I'm not sure can be brutally utilized full room for adult coronavirus infection suffer so They're in a very precarious state. Should the infection right? Continue to climb and they're doing. There's all sorts of measures. They are trying to build their own corona virus as their own in light. Issa coronavirus suffers And that's being mobilize some. Maybe that will come to the rescue and thankfully given that it has been a relatively slow steady. Climb that probably gives the government upbeat more braving spice to get all that give but We shall say but the other problem is as I said with all these people returning to their villages. This was a pandemic or an epidemic that started in in the capital city Jakarta but it has quickly spread to every corner of Indonesia. They're infections in every province in most most regencies. So it's in those outlying areas with a hospital system is particularly wake particularly vulnerable sheep. Things get worse Tom. Allard is the Reuters. Chief correspondent in Southeast Asia. Tom Thank you very much for joining us. My position me covid. Nineteen has given us all a newfound appreciation for healthcare workers across the country. People hold nightly cheers and on social media. Healthcare workers are held up as Heroes. But could that kind of enthusiasm translate into votes for to doctors and Oregon? It already has Dr Maxine. Dexter won her primary for State House Representative District Thirty Three. And this is Dr Lisa Reynolds who claimed victory in district. Thirty six one of the reasons I won this race is because others agreed that this is an important time to have politicians who have deep background in healthcare in virology and in vaccine science the acknowledgement that we need physicians and scientists during this unprecedented time in our history really won the day to find out more about how having healthcare workers in office might be beneficial during the current pandemic. I spoke with Dr Christine. Eighty man a family practice physician in Cedar Park Texas and a Congressional candidate in Texas district. Thirty one I also spoke with Dr High some Gailey a family medicine doctor and psychiatrist and the founder of doctors in politics in organization that supports doctors running for Congress. I I asked Dr. Eighty man about her experience treating patients with covid nineteen in Texas. It started out very disconcerting. The federal response to this pandemic was so disjointed that we on the ground really had no great direction about what we should be doing and how we should be handling these questions and these cases as they came in and and so we were left struggling to have a algorithm and a and a method for taking care of people and answering questions and that lasted for several weeks and then we started seeing people coming in for testing and now we just kind of roll with the punches as things change and take care of people as they need to be taken care of. And I understand that you decided to run for Congress in Texas before this pandemic but how has living and working through this experience? Change the stakes for you. It's really been a a motivator to complete this campaign and win because the covid nineteen experiences exposing the terrible disparities. We haven't healthcare the holes that we have in people being able to access the care that they need and underrepresented communities are disproportionately being affected. And we've known that about medicine in general but this just highlights how bad and how profound it really is an Heison for you. You're working in a psychiatric ward in New York. I understand what have the past few months been like for you? Yeah I think it's been a real Over the past couple of months we've really seen mental health issues amplified in the midst of this pandemic. I think what we're seeing now is general level of anxiety across the population. We're seeing an increase in suicidality in patients. Were coming in to the hospital. A lot sicker. I WanNa know both of your thoughts on this but maybe Christine. Can you start? What policy change would make your work during this pandemic better or more effective? The first thing is is that we need universal access to healthcare. We have a situation right now where millions of Americans do not have access to the care that they need. We know that that's been that way forever. And so the number one policy change would be to ensure that every American has access to healthcare from birth to death without exceptions for job loss or for pre existing conditions or for any other reason. So that's what I've been fighting for four about twelve years. I started speaking out about that long before I was a candidate for Congress but it is one of my main platform positions as I go through this cycle and high somewhat about for you and your work that you're doing right now. Have you been thinking? About what structural policy changes would actually make a big difference in how you're able to deliver your services. Yeah I think that we need to be having the conversation about healthcare and not health insurance and we really need to create a system that has nothing to do with the business of medicine but focuses on being devoted to patients in restoring the human of medicine that sort of been eroded over the past several years Christine. What is the value? Do you think of having doctors serving in these elected rules. Well there's a couple of things first of all just from the policy writing piece of it. There's no substitute for decades of experience in medicine when it comes to helping others in Congress and in legislative bodies to understand the healthcare system my experiences through the years of practice can't be duplicated by just a booklet that campaign aide or a legislative aide puts together for you when you're going into these negotiations bringing that firsthand experience is critical and crystal and I think the other thing is that we are seeing more and more doctors who are not only cognizant of social determinants of Health but oh are recognizing that politics impacts those social determinants of health and right now it's to the detriment of our patients and it is giving us a voice to say gun laws affect our patients. Healthcare policy affects our patients disparities between mental health and physical health affect our patients. Systemic racism affects our patients all of these social determinants of health impact our practices and we are at the point. More and more where we're saying we want to do something about that. You know a couple of years ago. I'm recalling when the National Rifle Association spoke out and this was sometime after a major mass shooting and a number of doctors and medical professionals had been speaking out and and saying that it was time to introduce some gun legislation and the National Rifle Association said. At the time that those anti-gun doctors should quote. Stay in their lane in other words. Stay politically neutral. Stick to what they know. Stick to medicine and I remember. A lot of doctors pushed back against that high. Some do you feel the pressure to leave politics out of your work. Yeah I think there's always a pressure in our training to remain a political as possible but I think what we're learning is healthcare isn't just about delivering healthcare now. It's also about economics and politics. People are making political decisions that directly impact our interactions with patients in the room. We are seeing the effects of legislation on people and how they have to navigate their lives to try to live a life of dignity and quality despite people not really understanding how the laws are impacting them. I think that there is really this. Huge push right for doctors to get involved to get political to flip the narrative so that we can actually do what's best for our patients as opposed to The present system high some. I understand that you ran for city council in Seattle in two thousand seventeen and now of course you're helping others who want to run for office through your organization doctors and politics. Have you seen more of an interest and urgency among medical doctors and entering politics since the pandemic began? Yeah I think that. There truly is an urgency now for doctors to be at the table. I think what is really clear? Is that The leadership that is coming from the government in from medical bodies that are supposed to represent us. Hospital organizations are just not putting people first And that disconnect is really leading to poor outcomes and so I think that doctors are sort of rising to the challenge and really asking the question is why our voices not being heard and since we are experts in this field can look at data and make decisions we should actively be involved in how healthcare is restructured in this country in two thousand eighteen. We did see this wave of women candidates running for office across the country. We saw a wave of candidates coming from stem fields with non-political backgrounds. For the most part. How do you think these candidates from medical backgrounds might fair in the polls this November? Yeah I think that we saw really a surge of women and stem candidates in two thousand eighteen and I think appropriately so I think that the American people want something different they want people who represent them and care about their vested interests. I think that our candidates that are running in twenty twenty they come from very different backgrounds are all really interested in pushing a narrative of putting patients first and restoring the human factor of Medicine. Back into healthcare. I will tell you that we had two doctors one their democratic primaries in Oregon so I think that just speaks to the idea that doctors are respected members of the community and I think that this is a group of people who is untapped and has a great potential for making a difference in a legislative body high. So maybe you can talk about this. How do you think doctors elected officials would maybe help message to the public and bridge? Sort of a gap of understanding. I'm thinking that part of what some people in this country struggling with right now in terms of this pandemic is understanding the scientific information around covid. Nineteen what what do you think might change? If there were more doctors and elected roles. I think that what we are seeing is that they're really good at messaging. Complicated ideas in simple terms so that patients can understand it. We do it every day. When we talk about chronic illnesses that people suffer from and this is no different. I think that we as doctors can take complicated legislation. Explain it to people in a meaningful way. That is digestible and understandable And so I really think that doctors have a very unique perspective. We are not paid to be adversarial. We are collaborative in our natures. And so I think that is really a strength that Congress is really lacking at this time. Christine. I wonder what your thoughts are on how you've watched the relationship and dynamic play out between Dr. Anthony vouches the head of the White House. Coronavirus Task Force and the President. Himself President Trump. What has watching that relationship made you think about doctors and medical professionals and politicians. It has been a Yoyo between being so thankful that he is there to push back against some of the narratives that the president is putting out there versus days. Where I just want to yell. Because he's not pushing back as vigorously as I would hope that he would and quite frankly I feel like he is walking a tight rope as best he can that he recognizes that his voice at that level is one hundred percent necessary that there is no one else who is going to do what he is doing and that he is doing everything he can to keep this ship going in some fashion in the correct direction knowing that the president is going to override him at every turn it is an opportunity though for someone to at least be speaking out when he's able to against some of the things and the theories and the false information that the president is giving. And how do you yourself think about having to potentially walk those kinds of lines and make those political decisions in this political messaging sorts of decisions. And do you see them as being in opposition or in conflict with some of your training and your medical background? I would only be in conflict with my medical background and my training if I didn't speak the truth and if I didn't speak using evidence and I am not worried about that. Conflict at all as high some was mentioning. We have a daily job where we have to convince people to do things that they may not agree with. That they may not think is correct that they don't understand what the importance is and my job as a doctor is to convince people to do things that they don't want to do. And that is a skill set that I have home over twenty years and I'm ready to use that same skillset to convince people who do not agree with me legislatively about why they should do what I'm asking them to do. In two thousand eighteen. The trump administration disbanded the pandemic response team. And some critics have said that. That's part of the reason why we are not as well prepared as we should be for this current crisis Christine. What do you think needs to change for the US to be more prepared for a crisis like this in the future? Well there's no question that the pandemic response team needs to be put back together. It will help us some with this current crisis although we are so far down the road right now that we are going to have a real challenge in managing how this pandemic plays out but there is no question that we should have scientific experts available. And what a lot of people don't understand about pandemic response teams is that their work is ongoing. They continuously search their colleagues their connections throughout the world for issues that may break out into the public disease hotspots and they came out how to address those issues. They make sure that we have stockpiles of necessary medical supplies. They understand how to move those supplies from location to location within the United States. This is not a passive team that only jumps into action. When there is an actual crisis they are constantly working to make sure that we are prepared and the idea that that response team was disbanded in twenty. Eighteen is just a boron and it needs to be fixed. Dr Christine Eadie man is a family practice physician in Cedar Park Texas and she's a congressional candidate in Texas district thirty one and Dr Haisam Gaily is a family medicine doctor and a psychiatrist and founder of doctors in politics. Thank you both of you so much for being here and coming back to our top story on beaches. We want to hear from you if you were at the beach this weekend. Tell us what it was like. Was it hard to follow new guidelines? Eight seven seven eight. My take is our number or you can send us a tweet at the take way you can also tweet at me at Shoe Tzu S H U B A S U. Thanks so much for listening. I'm Shumita Basu in for Tanzania Vega and this is the takeaway see you tomorrow.

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Thu. 07/16  The Great Twitter Hijack of 2020

Techmeme Ride Home

20:06 min | 10 months ago

Thu. 07/16 The Great Twitter Hijack of 2020

"Welcome to the right home for Thursday. July sixteenth twenty twenty. I'm Brian McCullough today. I run down the whole mess of the great twitter jacking from last night. FACEBOOK is rolling out more labels for politicians. facebook might also be positioning itself for a tick. Tock Diaspora Amazon now. Let's influencers run home. Shopping network style shows on the website and apple officially has a podcast. Here's what you missed today in the world of Tech. If you live on twitter at all. Then you might have noticed a great disturbance in the twitter force last night. Possibly the greatest disturbance. We've ever seen one by one prominent accounts for Bitcoin. Barack Obama Joe Biden Ripple Finance Elon. Musk Bill Gates Jeff bezos. wiz Khalifa the cash APP. The list goes on and on all of these accounts, suddenly started schilling for what seemed to be a crypto currency scam. For example. Here was the tweet from Joe Biden's account quote. I am giving back to the community. All bitcoin sent to the address below will be sent back doubled. If you send a thousand dollars, I will send back two thousand, only doing this for thirty minutes and quote. I don't know how much that would have been effective from the Joe Biden Account, but maybe if you were getting that from Jeff, Bezos or Elon, musk you might take it seriously. For a while everything was chaos. Some of the prominent accounts seemed to gain control of their accounts back only to see them hijacked again coding tech crunch, it became clear early on that the situation was not the case of a single account being compromise as we've seen in the past, but something else altogether, even apple, a company known for robust security, somehow fell victim to the scheme as As the issues continued many verified twitter users also reported being unable to tweet around three fifteen pm. Pacific time the official twitter support contract users may be unable to tweet or reset your password while we review and address this incident by Wednesday evening. Twitter said that most tweeting should be back to normal, but functionality may come and go as the company continues working on a fix and quote. Indeed it was that period of time when all verified twitter users. All those blue check marks couldn't tweet it all then. Everything was full on chaos. Fortunately for me, I've never been verified, so I could still tweet, but a ton of folks couldn't. Q. Much gnashing of teeth, Q. Much rendering of garments q a lot of snark about how the haves and have nots were suddenly in stark relief on twitter I reached out to the most on twitter person that I know for comment. This is Hashtag Creator Chris Messina from last night. Brian. I am so stressed out. This happened and I can't tweet. and. I'm losing my Goddamn. mind. I can't say anything about this hack that is happening on twitter on my fourteenth twitter Serie. Whoever these? Efforts are. I hope they find them and bring them to justice. Yes. Lots of folks were caught up in the irony of not being able to tweet about. To tweet, others were taking it with some humour Mark Andriessen. Who you might know has voluntarily kept himself off twitter for a few years now. Eventually tweeted quote now feels like the perfect time to fully express my views on a bunch of highly controversial topics. Only to tweet the automated warning from twitter that his tweets couldn't be posted by late last night, twitter support tweeted the following quote. We detected what we believe to be coordinated social engineering attack by people who successfully targeted some of our employees with access to internal systems and tools. We know they use this access to take control of many highly visible, including verified accounts and tweet on their behalf. We're looking into what other militias activity they may have conducted or information. They may have accessed, and we'll share more here as we have it once. We became aware of the. The incident. We immediately locked down the affected accounts and remove tweets posted by the attackers. We also limited functionality for a much larger group of accounts like all verified accounts, even those with no evidence of being compromised while we continue to investigate this. This was disruptive, but it was an important step to reduce the risk. Most functionality has been restored, but we may take further action, and we'll update you if we do. We have locked accounts that were compromised and will restore access to the original account owner. Only when we are certain, we can do so securely and quote. Apparently most accounts are now functioning again. As of this morning, meanwhile, the bitcoin wallet mentioned in some of the hijack tweets was apparently seeing hundreds of thousands of dollars in bitcoin deposits as of last night. So. How did this all happen? Well the very nature of the accounts effected, and the widespread nature of the attack tipped a lot of people off. Most people forget this, but social networks are run by people people at least some of whom have super user access to accounts, even famous ones. This is quoting from tech crunch. A hacker allegedly behind a spate of twitter account hacked on Wednesday gained. Gained access to twitter Adleman tool on the company's network that allowed them to hijack high-profile twitter accounts to ready cryptocurrency scam, according to a person with direct knowledge of the incident, he person involved in the underground hacking seen told tech crunch that a hacker who goes by the handle Kirk likely not their real name generated over one hundred thousand dollars in the. The matter of hours by gaining access to an internal twitter tool which they used to take control of popular twitter accounts. The hacker used the tool to reset the associated email addresses of affected accounts to make it more difficult for the owner to regain control. The hacker then pushed a cryptocurrency scam that claimed whatever funds a victim sent will be sent back doubled. Doubled. The person told techcrunch that Kirk had started out by selling access to vanity twitter accounts such as user names that are short, simple and recognizable. That's a big business, actually, if not still illegal, a stolen username or social media handle can go for anywhere between a few hundred dollars or thousands Kirk said to have contacted a trusted member of og users. Popular with traders of hacked social media handles. Kirk needed the trusted member to help sell stolen vanity user names in several screen shots of discord shared with techcrunch Kirk said quote, send me at names and BTC referring to twitter user names and cryptocurrency and get your s done. He said, referring to hijacking twitter accounts, but then later in the day, kirk quote started hacking everything. The person told Tech. Crunch Kirk allegedly had access to an internal tool on twitter network, which allowed them to effectively take control of a user's account. A screen shot shared with tech crunch shows the apparent adn tool twitter was removing tweets and suspending users. That shared screen shots of that tool. The tool appears to allow users ostensibly twitter employees to control access to a user's account including changing the email associated with the accounting, even suspending the user altogether, the person did not say exactly how kirk got access to twitter's internal tools, but hypothesize that eight twitter employees corporate account with hijacked with a hijacked employees account Kirk could make their way into the company's internal network. The person also said it was unlikely that eight twitter employees was involved with the account takeovers and quote. Although there is differing reporting on that. This was in motherboard last night, quote, a twitter insider was responsible for a wave of high profile account takeover on Wednesday, according to leaked screen shots obtained by motherboard into sources who took over accounts? Quote, we used a rap that literally done all the work for us. One of the sources told motherboard the second source added they paid the insider motherboard granted the sources anonymity to speak candidly about a security incident. Twitter spokesperson told motherboard that the company is still investigating whether the employees hijacked the accounts themselves or gave hackers access to the tool and quote. I reached out to our friend. Dave bittner at the cyber wire podcast for his thoughts on what might have happened last night and this is what he shared. This situation with twitter is of course still developing, but there are a number of theories gaining traction among security professionals. Twitter themselves say that the attack was the result of social engineering that a coordinated campaign targeted several employees with access to administrative controls. Joseph Cox over at motherboard is in touch with individuals, claiming responsibility for the breach, and they say they bribed twitter employees who had access to the administrative control panel. Some security pros are puzzled that this type of access would be used for something as simple and dopey as a bitcoin scam and they wonder if this could be misdirection, there could be more play. Perhaps with the bad guys were after was access to account DM strike messages. Others wonder if it's a demonstration of capabilities meant to shake the public's confidence in twitter, especially as we head toward the US elections this fall. But it's important to remember again that this story is still new and all accounts of motive and objective. Are this point more-or-less informed speculation. Might want to head over to the cyber wire podcasts for today's episode. As I'm sure, they can go much deeper into the technical side of this than I can at the time of this recording this morning. No further official word from twitter. What actually went down? Quoting Casey Newton. Twitter will likely spend the next several days investigating how this incident took place. A criminal investigation seems likely during which the company may not be able to fully describe Wednesday's events to our satisfaction, but it is vital that as soon as possible twitter share as much about what happened today as it can, and just as importantly what it will do to ensure that it never. Never happens again. The threat here is not simply user privacy and data security, though those threats are real and substantial, it is about the striking potential of twitter to incite real world chaos through impersonation and fraud as of today that potential has been realized, and I can only worry about how with a presidential election now less than four months away, it might be realized further and quote. Board with your workout regimen. Well I've got a new one for you. Fight camp. Fight Camp Brings The boxing gym to your living room. They provide all the gear and top trainers everything you need to get great workouts in in the comfort of your home, and via their convenient APP fight camp gives you access to some of the best trainers in the world ranging from a pro MMA fighter to kickboxing world champion. Boxing twelve weeks starter program teaches you the fundamentals of boxing. Workout every time the workouts are structured like traditional boxing rounds three minutes of intense boxing and bodyweight exercises, and then one minute of rest it's the perfect high intensity interval training access over four hundred different workouts for all fitness levels and skills with four new ones added every week and it's affordable. Fight camp offers flexible financing for as low as zero percents, APR, and right now as limited time offer, you can try. Try Fight Camp for thirty days with their money back guarantee just go to join fight camp dot com slash tech name. That's right. Try Fight Camp for thirty days, and if you don't love it, they will refund your money train like fighter and turn your sweat into results to try fight camp for thirty days just to join fight camp dot com slash tech, meam, join fight camp, dot, com slash tech me. Let's take a look at a specific type of company. That tiny tends to like to buy. If what I'm about to describe sounds like you, you need to talk to tiny. Let's say you've raised money and you've built a good business, a good business with serious revenue, and maybe some prophets, but you know at this point. You're never going to achieve venture scale. You're doing great. You found product market. Fit Your delighting your customers, and you become the company. You were meant to be but look those folks who invested in you were hoping for a tax return, and you're never gonNA get there. That's fine. There's no shame growing. Growing a profitable business ever your investors need a soft landing, though and that's fine to your company needs a good home for the long term. That's exactly where tiny comes in tiny knows. Founders went to sell their companies without dealing with the brain damage that sometimes entails founders don't want to freak out their team. Don't want to jeopardize their hard work by flipping too short term oriented virus. Don't want to answer to micromanage boards. If this is you, go talk to tiny and get to know a buyer who will put all your fears to rest tiny capital. Dot Com, and when you touch, tell them Brian sent you. FACEBOOK is rolling out labels to all post from presidential candidates and federally elected officials that mentioned voting or ballots, quoting axios the labels rolling out today are a judgment of whether the post themselves are accurate, but are instead meant to signal to facebook users that they can get the most accurate information about voting by leading them to an official government website posts that specifically reference voting by mail will link to an official government website on absentee voting facebook says it plans to extend such voter initiatives to other APPs, including instagram and Messenger soon and quote. Remember when I speculated about what might happen if Tiktok were to somehow be banned suddenly for us, users well might some tick tock rivals be positioning themselves for just such an eventuality, no matter how unlikely it might be, are they positioning themselves? Just in case, sources are saying facebook is planning to launch instagram reels. It's answered Tiktok to new markets in the coming weeks, including the US UK Japan Mexico and around fifty other countries, interestingly reels has already stepped into the breach for the Tick Tock, diaspora quoting NBC news like. Like TIKTOK instagram reels lets users make share fifteen second video clips set to a vast catalog of music like tiktok users can also borrow remix audio from other people's videos and liked tiktok users can see their clips go viral in a featured real section of the most popular videos facebook I launch wheels and Brazil last November and expanded it to France and Germany. Last month it launched in India last week just days after India banned Tick Tock and more than fifty other Chinese APPS, citing privacy and security concerns end quote. Amazon has launched a new live streaming option for influencers on its Amazon. Live Service. Essentially this is a home shopping network style video. Feed right inside of Amazon's retail site quoting techcrunch the influence, our program quietly debuted in two thousand, seventeen as a way for Amazon to capitalize on the growing trend of influence or marketing as a way to drive sales the program itself is a step up from the Amazon Associates Program, as it requires approval to join and gives influencers their own page with an Amazon Url to showcase their recommendations. Though Amazon already catered to video creators through the program. The new live streaming option is focused on its own Amazon live service a sort of modern day version of QVC that streams directly on Amazon's shopping site Amazon live launch last year as the retailers latest effort to attract consumers by way of live video on Amazon. Live shows host, talk about and demonstrate products much. Much likely would do on home. Shopping networks underneath the video carousel guides consumers to purchase the items featured. The service wasn't Amazon's first attempt that live content. The retailer pulled the plug on its earlier effort in live content, a short-lived show called style code live that featured hosts with TV and broadcast backgrounds who brought in experts to talk beauty and style, tips and quote. And finally today apple has finally sort of officially from a certain angle gotten into podcasting. With the latest version of IOS by the way, the IOS thirteen dot six update is out right now. Apple's news APP has been updated to include an audio stories tab on Apple News plus and included in that is a daily audio news briefing produced by apple called Apple News today as well as curated local news collections in five US cities and regions I about that New Apple News Audio Tab Kooning apple beginning today apple. News will produce about twenty audio stories a week across a wide. Wide Range of interests narrated by professional voice actors, these are audio versions of some of the best feature reporting and long form pieces published by esquire essence, Fast Company G Q New York magazine sports illustrated time Vanity Fair Vogue wired and more and newspapers including the Los Angeles Times and the Wall Street Journal. Audio stories are now available to Apple News plus subscribers in the US and quote. In that same tab! You can now also see apple news today. It's new brief. Morning News rundown show. It's apple news today that interest, because it is available right now as a free podcast as well. You can subscribe to it and any podcast APP that supports our assess. You don't have to be an apple news plus subscriber to listen to this. This is why I'm saying. This is apple's first official foray into podcasting, quoting nine to five Mac apple news today is published every weekday and hosted by Shumita Basu and Duarte Geraldino esteemed reporters from the world of news and public radio WHO apple hired to host the show as you might expect from apple production the. Daily News is delivered with careful editing and editorial in a very high-quality. high-quality production you can listen to apple news today through the news APP. If you have access to the news plus audio tab right now, this is only available for customers. In the United. States, the Apple News today's show will be featured at the top of the TAB. When new episodes air with the release of IRS, thirteen dot, six apple news is also available as an APP in Carplay, so you can listen to the apple news today update, and all of the other audience stories quickly, and simply from your car's Dashboard and quote. One personal note here and a bit of a tie into this podcast. Duarte Geraldino is a friend of mine who I met when we did the Ted Residency, program together a few years ago and funny enough. You might know him as well. Duarte has a true deep classical radio voice much much more of a radio voice than I have. So about two years ago when we were launching this show, I had him record a bunch of ads for us to promote the tech name. Ride home podcast when it was launching. So, chances are very good that some percentage of you are listening to me right now. Because you heard Duarte's add on another podcast and you've got turned onto this show. Does this sound familiar to you mark. Zuckerberg told The New Yorker. The new source he definitely follows is technically so listen to the tech meam ride home podcast the podcast. Anyone who's anyone in Silicone Valley listened to every day in just fifteen to twenty minutes. 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The Challenges of Parenting During a Pandemic 2020-04-29

The Takeaway

50:33 min | 1 year ago

The Challenges of Parenting During a Pandemic 2020-04-29

"We've lost track of how long we've been in social isolation and parents are struggling. Even parents are regressed in some ways so chewing on your pen cap really tight or this high consumption of alcohol. That we're seeing I'm Lizzie. O'leary in for Tanzania Vega and today on the takeaway for Wednesday April twenty nine a look. The challenges parents are facing as many of us hunker down at home during the pandemic loss. How a landmark federal case naming students have a constitutional right to literacy? We also speak with the mayor of Jackson Mississippi to hear how his city and state are handling the corona virus and we round out the show with a tribute to our WNYC colleague who passed away. Richard Hake it is really people like Richard. Do Make It. You know the fire. Cyclo fireside chat aspect public radio first step parenting and place. We are many weeks in sheltering at home to slow. The spread of a pandemic and parenting is getting really tough. It's challenging under normal circumstances of course but add to that working from home plus homeschooling plus the stressors of living in a pandemic. And it's leaving parents dealing with anxiety stress and depression and we asked you to tell us the hardest parts of your days ours apparent right now and where you find moments of joy part of my day during this whole thing o'clock with my seven year old daughter and she's just finally go to worry she worries all day out all day. But you know she's got questions and online school and why can't we go there? And why can't we go here? Sitar arm essential working from home. Full-time my wife's essential working for a city full-time she's doing forty fifty hours a week. And when we're lying in bed and she seven and she finally lets go of all that just turn off the fleet but not just go away. The hardest part of Day was trying to hold pool a frustrated kindergartner. Who's trying to learn how to spell words while a three-year-old runs around the house and the best part of today was waiting with my kids to watch the grew Angels Thunderbirds Flyover Solo and Colin. Come Redmond Washington. The hardest part of my day today so far was leaving my teenager in an office. Depressed State and my elementary school child with the Tummy Ache to to my quotes essential job. My husband is home with them but he can't see cuddle as well as mom camp. This is Patrick. Colin from Holliston Massachussetts. Probably the toughest part of every day is just trying to balance my workload. I'm a teacher in Boston My wife's workload as a therapist and the needs of them my children the best part of my day today was explore in voice with my three girls under the age of six curiosity. Their engagement with nature's just so much fun to watch. Thanks to the many of you who called in with your experiences. We're GONNA talk a little bit about what parents are going through right now and where they can find help. Cheryl's Ziegler is the author of Mommy burnout. A doctor of psychology registered. Play Therapist and Jessica. Grose is the lead editor of New York Times parenting. Thank you both for being here. Thanks for having me so much for having me just want to start with you. Not only are you the lead parenting editor at The Times. But you've got two young kids at home. You had a tweet. That cracked me up You said prepping for home schooling week. Whatever turns out. I don't know what a trapezoid looks like How's it going over there? Every day is a challenge What I like to say is that it's not good days bad days. It's good thirty minutes and bad thirty minutes. So the mood is shifting rapidly. It's really hard. I learned over the weekend that I'm not equipped to do pre-school method. So that's how it's going Cheryl. There are so many different factors contributing to this moment being really hard on parents. What are you hearing? I would say you know? We've been through these stages of grief and what I'm seeing is that that initial denial of like. Is this really happening? Can I really do this? And then parents feeling like okay. I can do this short term but then as the weeks have gone on. It's like actually a really can't do this. I'm really over this. And everyone's gone through their stages of being in denial and then being angry and having to find someone or something to be angry at what. I'm seeing really this week. Right now is a lot of regression so seeing kids go back to former states that they used to be able to. Do you know potty training bed wedding sleeping in their own bed sucking their thumbs those kind of things so I'd say every week. We are seeing a different trend in what's happening with kids and families. Yeah I mean Sheryl. We talked on the show yesterday about the pressure to be productive right now and how hard that is living through a pandemic and how much harder it is for for parents. Who are you know wearing like eight different hats right now? How do we see the mental health effects of living during this code? One thousand nine zero play out in parents in particular so even parents are regressed in some ways so regression in an adult can look like you chewing on your pen. Capri tights or this high consumption of alcohol that we're seeing so we're seeing this stress manifest in different ways for parents and then we're also seeing parents going in and out of these grief stage cycles and that's what makes it complicated. Is that within one family under one roof. You might have people in different stages so they're experiencing different things and have different needs at the same time so it is complete and utter overwhelm. We see online counseling services upwards of two hundred percents we're seeing Zaidi medications being prescribed upwards of thirty percent and so we're really seeing it happening live but I also think there's a lot to come in the future Jessica. You guys have been writing a lot about how this all looks different. Depending on income level just frankly as parenting did prior to the pandemic. But how does that factor into how this moment feels in different households that long term effects that experts are worried about is really for under served? Kids who parents either. They're essential workers or the kids don't have the access they need to online learning. And so there's a lot of fear of them falling behind. There is a lot of fear that is legitimate based on studies that came out of Hurricane Katrina in World War Two that the impact on poorer children is might be really severe. I mean the Times just ran a report today that showed concern for a rising obesity rates. Because kids aren't allowed outside because the school day provides so much natural structure for kids. And that's not just obviously for poor kids. That's for all kids so I think that we're not even GonNa know the challenges that we're facing with our kids and our community is Intel six months a year. Five years from now Cheryl if you're a parent and you're feeling guilty right now because you've got to work or you know you can't give your kid undivided attention How should you manage that? Well I think one of the first things that parents can't hear enough is that they need to lower that bar and to think that parents are going to be distance learners teachers and they're going to also run the household plus try to keep food on the table. All of that's just not realistic. So I think what I have seen over. The last couple of weeks is that that message is starting to get people so I I would say you know. Get involved in terms of the school. School does indeed open in the fall. We you know advocate for review of everything that was missed in this final quarter. And just know that your kids if their mental health is really more important. I think right now than their academic functioning the fact that they see you as calm you meaning the parent they see. The parent is calm managing their own anxiety taking care of themselves having some fun laughter. All of those things are more important right now. I think if a kid can read Daily that's great. That's really important and you know. Every single kid is different. There are some kids who are who are thriving in this. There's also the kids that You know are on screens all day. And they don't do well with that they're such a variety. I think that parents just really need to understand that their kids are going to be okay. They are going to catch up if they need remedial work in the fall then so be it but really keeping the household feeling safe and calm. I think is of utmost priority right now. How honest should you be about kind of how serious all of this is? You know. I've been saying from week one that I think we need to be pretty honest with kids and I haven't changed my stance on that because I think you can communicate depending on the age of the child a little bit differently but I think it's really important to let them know that we are? I like I really like saying the kids. You're not stuck at home. You're safe at home. This is a health crisis. It's really important to understand that our actions make a difference not just for our own lives in our own families but for everyone around us and I do think that that's a priority what I will say this week as teenagers are probably getting The most Ansi and so I'm hearing a lot more of my teen snuck out. My team wants to see their boyfriend. Girlfriend really need to understand the potential health impact of of acting upon their their impulses. Right now jess. How does this fall differently on different genders? We're hearing a lot. That is falling more two moms and even if the chores and the responsibilities are divided equally. Moms feel a greater amount of emotional responsibility to maintain the mood of the family and also to keep everything organized on track. I think they feel a lot of ambient pressure from you know. They see people posting things on instagram about their perfect school setup and their kids driving and they feel like well. Why does my house look like a disaster area? And I still don't know what a trapezoid as and so I think that it is overall harder on moms but I do think it is pretty hard on involved. Dads as well. It's just not feasible to work and watch your children all day at the same time. I WANNA make sure. Also we're not losing track of the reality that there are a lot of parents who are doing this solo you know. I think it is really really hard on them. They are just taking it day by day but a lot of them. We were hearing them. Feeling burnt out weeks ago from the get-go was so overwhelming to have no no break no no additional support. I think that is really really really tough. Just when we think about potential structural shifts That could come out of this. Do you think that it may change the way work places? Think about parenting or even the expectations of parents in terms of what they are able to do kind of with and around their kids. I'm optimistic about it. Actually which is rare for me. I think just the appearance of children I mean. Dad's can't protect their work life in the same way that MOMS can't protect their work life. So kids are busting in on the zooms. Dads are getting interrupted in their work. The way that mom's traditionally have been interrupted in their work and I think management which you know statistically is still heavily male are seeing their jobs interrupted and upended by their children in ways that they tend to not because they're not at home all the time so I do think that there will be a greater amount of understanding and there was already shift among the generation of men who is in their twenties and Thirties. In terms of how involved they would like to be with their children and how involved they sort of demand their employers to allow them to be with their children. So I am mildly optimistic that this will shift Some structural stuff in the workplace in terms of the way employers. Think about men and women. There's a lot of data that shows when women become pregnant employers. Think of them as less engaged in less involved in their work. And I'm hoping that if anything that erases that prejudice or at least lessons of it Jessica. Grose is lead editor parenting for the New York. Times and Charles. Ziegler is author of Mommy burnout psychologist and registered play therapist. Thank you so much to both of you. Thank you so much for having me. We'll be hearing more from parents in the coming days if you want to tell us about your experience parenting during this time. Just give us a call. We're at eight seven seven eight my take this is the takeaway this week. Mississippi joined the growing number of states beginning to reopen their economies on Monday governor Tate Reeves Safer at home order. Went into effect replacing. The state's stricter shelter in place order while retail stores are now able to reopen as long as they maintained half capacity the order still urges residents to stay at home except for a central travel in Jackson. Mississippi mayor shook way. Antar Lumumba is handling the logistics of reopening his city. Last week he also used the emergency powers granted to him during the pandemic to suspend the open carry of Firearms Jackson until April thirtieth as we continue our series of conversations with local leaders about this moment Maryland. Mumba joins US MR mayor. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you for having me. Jackson is both the capital and the densest city in Mississippi. Where are you do you think in controlling the spread of the virus there? What other precautions do you think you need? to ensure the safety of your constituents right now we're still in the eye of the storm Here in Jackson just like most of the nation As the governor has issued his safer at home order It is my intent to Continue my stay at home order. A not only as Jackson the most dense population in the capital of the State of Mississippi. We are also the capital of healthcare so the decisions that are made statewide not only impact the city of Jackson or decisions. We make not only impact the city of Jackson it impacts the surrounding cities in in communities and so Right now We feel that that this order which allows businesses to go to fifty percent occupancy under the governor's or just is not sufficient and so we will maintain our order and the governor serves only a minimal standard Mayors of cities have the ability to provide more restrictive policy. So what you say supersedes what he says at this moment in terms of providing more strict policy It cannot be in direct contradiction so I cannot open up businesses that he has seen Necessary to close Nor would I want to But but we will continue to see restaurants in bars closed And in Jackson retail establishments will be closed. But for those that can provide curbside service. Are you talking to the Governor Right now? And has he consulted you at all before making these decisions? In recent days we have we have spoken. He invited me to the governor's mansion for a conversation with about one hundred mayors around the state Through much of this process I have desired a more frequent communication You know not because I. I think that I'm a special mayor out of the bunch of but because the challenges are Are particularly significant for the city of Jackson not only due to our size but due to the fact that the majority of our population is is a population that has been disproportionately affected by this virus. Jackson is a eighty five percent African American community And and the more that we can work in conjunction with the state to use state resources To use data that the state health department is Extracting is beneficial for us to have a a better point of contact approach to The efforts here on the ground. Yeah we know from demographics that more people of Color in Mississippi have been infected killed by the virus in white residents. How are you trying to address and mitigate that disparity well I think that first we have to recognize why the disparity exists Much of our response this covert nineteen pandemic has mirrored our healthcare system. We know on an average day In in this country There is great disparities between the access of healthcare for People in in black and brown communities in so This pandemic is different and so we saw it being necessary to take a proactive approach as city So we purchased through the combination of direct purchase in an agreement with local healthcare facility. A twelve thousand tests to be utilized throughout the city But for us we believe that testing while it is important and necessary it must lead to action and so we've also purchased what we call a symptom collector that allows people to log their symptoms. IT allows Our our partnership with the healthcare facilities To do a heat map so that we can identify which areas around our city are. Is this virus. Most prevalent in having a disproportionate effect. And then we can direct resources Direct healthcare and and also through a text message alerts Through other forms of outreach acknowledged to people how serious the pandemic is and how it is affecting them specifically right. They are in their neighborhood We've also purchased what we are also entered into agreement with local hotel You know an agreement which provides convalescence to may not have the opportunity to either quarantine because they lack shelter or the shelter that they do have With put other people in their family insignificant danger we also You know attempted to create a hotline for those people to call to be connected to personal health care physicians and we've created a warm line which is dedicated to those who are social who are having mental affects at this time with filling anxiety overwhelmed or depression and that that line has been has been utilized quite extensively in the last few days we've seen protests around the country demanding that you know different states reopen and on Sunday you announced the suspension of open carry of firearms in Jackson until April thirtieth. Why did you make that decision? Well we have a significant challenge in the city of Jackson as it pertains to illegal firearms In while I am not opposed to the Second Amendment rights to to bear arms of being a proud gun owner myself what I do have objection to Is the fact that we have limited the tools of law enforcement to determine good from bad illegal from a legal from illegal firearms? What the open carry law does in effect is a guns that used to be able to be seized through plain view Determined the character of those weapons whether they were legally obtained or or illegally maintain a has now been severely hampered in in in this hour We've suffered some very unfortunate instances in recent days when we already know that economic pressure is high Emotional tension is high which is verified by our warm line This is not the moment that we have tools or you know we create an environment which further creates fear in an anxiety in trouble. We've had the unfortunate deaths of both of five year old girl Who was shot in the head here in the city and a ten year old boy within the span of a week And and so I think that as leaders you know it's not simply it's not enough to simply offer our condolences to mothers and fathers And those people who have lost innocent loved ones to the hands of unnecessary gun violence. I think that we have to research data dive in deep and be prepared to take whatever steps are necessary to protect life of people. I absolutely hear you but at the same time. The Mississippi Attorney General has said you lack the authority even with emergency powers to make this suspension. The Mississippi Justice Institute filed a lawsuit on behalf of State Representative against you. How do you respond to their criticism? It's no surprise that the Attorney General Sees it differently than I do? I think that's ultimately a decision or an issue for the courts to determine As I see the statue as it's written it absolutely gives me. That authority may be. The desire was not provide that type of authority to mayors but as is written that's what I see. A furthermore the individual who was fouled claim against the city of Jackson In my opinion lacked standing In in You know the situation is is not one that has in any way interfered with their rights. they are not an individual who lives in the city of Jackson nor do they experience the conditions which take place in Jackson And so You know to to hold this position and you're in it. What it proves is that we are more defensive over the idea of a gun. Then we are. The actuality of young people being gunned down in the streets of our city In in our city in and not by people who Even live in our city nor confront the challenges that we can try to say. You know this is as we've been hearing from mayors across the country a very tough time to be in a position of leadership. I guess I wonder how you doing on a personal level. And and what are you doing to take care of yourself right now? Well I'm fortunate that you know. Have the blessing of a loving family. A wife who is supportive of me in in many comrades in two little girls that that you know when I come home from a very long day You know run to run to the door and you know are are happy to see daddy and and you know everything happening in. The world is pretty much nonexistent to them But we have so many mississippians who are not in who are not similarly position That this is creating economic turmoil for them. this is creating emotional and physical Taking a motion on physical toll on them And so I think that it is important at this time that leadership not only provide brutal honesty to its its constituents But also provide a rational basis for hope and so we want people in Jackson Mississippi to not being Mayor Shukla. Antar Lumumba is the mayor of Jackson Mississippi Mr Mayor. Thank you so much for talking with us. Thank you for having me on Tuesday. Voters in Ohio finally cast their ballots in the state's primary elections. But instead of heading the box voters turned to their mailboxes. Instead in the first election of its kind almost everyone in the state was required to vote by mail. The Ohio primary was supposed to take place last month but due to Kobe. Nineteen hours before the polls open. The state postponed the election and closed down polls shifting to mail in ballots. Ohio is the first state in the country. Where both parties relied on mail-in ballots for their primary twenty one other states around the US have had to postpone their primaries including Wisconsin where we saw in-person polls kept open despite the pandemic joining us to walk us through how this process went. Is Rick Ru on Ohio? Politics and government reporter for the Columbus dispatch high. I walk us through what we saw right before the march seventeenth primary date. What what was the process like for the state to suddenly shift to postpone the elections. That process was pretty rushed. So the day before the march seventeenth primary Secretary of State. Frankel rose actually had a press conference scheduled in the morning. They cancelled it and later that day. The secretary joined Governor Mike Dewine at his daily press briefing on covert nineteen to tell us that they were taking steps to try to delay the election when the courts elected not to shut down the election The governor's administration Issued a health order shutting down the polls hours before they were set to open this Happening at Something like ten thirty eleven o'clock at night when polls are scheduled to open at six thirty. The next morning it was a rush process But they ultimately decided to shut it down and a week later the Ohio General Assembly came up with its By Mail plan. Do we know yet if the mail in ballot process was successful. I guess it depends on your definition of successful. We were expecting a pretty high Turn out election this year. Given that at the time the presidential primary in on the democratic side was still up in the air we Have or sixteen. Congressional seats are up for election in Ohio and In a heavily gerrymandered state. The primary often serves as the general election. They're predicting historic. Turn out when you look at the number of absentee ballots That have actually been cast to this point and they're still Many the that could roll in by by maybe eighth but We're talking about about a twenty three percent turnout will. We're some issues. We saw with Mellon voting. Would you hear from so voters told us that the the male in process was extremely slow and that was reflected in observed by the Secretary of state who asked at the last minute For help from the state's congressional delegation dealing with the US Postal Service to to speed mail delivery when they adopted this plan The expectation was that it would take one to three days for the different pieces of mail that needed to travel back and forth to to make it where they were going The Secretary of State's letter to the congressional delegation said that they were seeing seven to nine day Turn around Certainly I in a process where You're required to mail in your application. There's no online direct application the board of Elections Hester receive the application process. It Mail your ballot back and then you have to fill out your ballot and either mail it to the board of elections or drive to your board of elections and drop it off in a dropbox you can see where in a month If mail delivery is taking nine days or longer in some cases That would be a pretty turnaround. Rick ruin is no Haya politics and government reporter for the Columbus dispatch. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having me last week the. Us Court of Appeals for the six circuit issued a ruling in twenty sixteen lawsuit by several Detroit Public School Students Against Michigan State officials in a two to one majority opinion judge Erico. Clay found that the students had their constitutional rights violated when they were denied. Access to basic education. And the decision isn't just notable for the city of Detroit today. The Supreme Court hasn't weighed in on whether education is a fundamental right in the United States but the ruling also comes at a challenging moment for public school systems as states struggle to raise revenue due to the Kobe. Nineteen crisis education. Funding may take a hit joining me now to talk about. The six circuit's decision is Sasha Ryan and education reporter for wd et. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me also with us. Is Justin driver a professor at Yale Law School and author of the Schoolhouse Gate Public Education? The Supreme Court and the battle for the American mind. Nice to have you with us as well but I had to be with you. Thank you just in the sixth circuit. Ruled THAT THESE DETROIT. Students were deprived of fundamental right to literacy. What factors in the system in Detroit? Did the majority look at to get to that decision. A really important question and the majority opinion by Judge. Clay cited three different factors The situations in these particular schools in Detroit were really quite egregious and Klay focused on the teachers. The great amount of turnover people teaching classes that they were not prepared to teach second. He spoke about the facilities the way that there is extreme heat and extreme cold and Some of these schools had vermin in them and people would encounter rodent feces so really agree just facilities and then finally the materials themselves. Many of the books were not sort of age appropriate for the student's meaning not the right reading level. And so these factors all culminated along with the demonstrated lack of achievement on standardized tests To suggest that the schools lacked the ability to have a fundamental right of access to literacy. Sasha what's the reaction to this decision been from people in Detroit as well as state officials? There's a new government now versus when this case was filed. There's definitely a lot of excitement and surprise amongst students and educators Education activist people who've been really paying attention to this case in the hopes that it could affect the quality of education not only in the city of Detroit but throughout Michigan. The government's response is really kind of interesting where we're waiting to see how the governor responds. She's now the named defendant in the case but this started under a Republican governor before her And so to see if she decides to continue to fight this case or looks for some kind of settlement. We don't really have a sign yet for house. She's going to handle this. You know social. I spent some time with one of the plaintiffs in this case back when this was filed and he told me some horror stories about conditions in the schools. How much have conditions changed if at all since this was filed in two thousand sixteen? And let's either been really big changes in Detroit schools since then. This case was filed just as the state was releasing control of Detroit City schools. So after this the Detroit. Public schools actually would cease to exist as the district that was educating students. And so now we have the Detroit school community district which was created by the state as a new district to educate students while Detroit public schools exist as an entity only to pay the debts that grew under state control. So there's a a new school board superintendent who have local control of the schools and have really done a lot of work to turn academics around to balance the budget to change the culture in the schools and so we do see significant changes but we still see a lot of the damage done under state control on the has to be fixed so while we have academic progress. It's really just a little bit of academic progress just in the Supreme Court has never issued a ruling on whether a basic education is a fundamental constitutional right but when we think about potential precedent for the sixth circuit's decision What is important to think about here? There are a couple of major supreme court cases that Judge Clay Interacts with the first is a case from nineteen seventy-three called San Antonio Independent School district versus Rodriguez which involved a lawsuit suggesting that students in poor areas received inadequate funding in comparison to students in property wealthy areas and the Supreme Court rejected that claim and made a big deal out of the fact of saying well. There was no absolute deprivation here. It was only a relative deprivation. The court encountered another case plyler versus DOE which was decided in one thousand nine hundred eighty two also out of taxes and their Texas sought to exclude unauthorized emigrants from public schools. In Supreme Court invalidated the Texas measures that you cannot exclude this people in one of the things that loomed large in the courts analysis was that to exclude children from school. Altogether would be to turn them into a subclass of illiterates and so in a significant sense. You can understand this recent decision as saying that in effect the children were attending these Detroit. Public schools are very much in the legacy of the students who had been absolutely excluded from schools in Texas and on the Supreme Court had entertained the idea about there being an inadequate education so inadequate as to amount to a constitutional violation and here in the face of egregious fact judge. Clay found such a violation. One of the things that seems important here though is that this is about due process that this is a floor sort of establishing I guess even access to participating in the economy rather than an equal protection case both different parts of the fourteenth amendment. How how would that apply potentially to other states with you know similarly troubled school systems that is going to be an important question going forward because the facts on the ground in these particular schools in Detroit were so abysmal. You could imagine people in other cities in the face of struggling schools but perhaps not as struggling as these particular schools in Detroit bringing these sorts of claims and other panels or other judges saying yeah. Things are not perfect in these schools but they are not as bad as Detroit and so that could serve to limit the applicability of the case and the challenge for lawyers who seek to bring these sorts of claims would be to say no these schools bear a rather strong similarity to the Detroit public schools and question. Sasha the kids in question here are primarily black and Latino state control for Awhile was resting With the state government led largely by White People in Lansing. How has race been discussed when it comes to state control of the school system? And what happens now? I think race has always been one of the big issues in this discussion. Definitely Detroit. Public schools are largely black schools. It's a largely black city. It's poor city and the very poor school district. V idea that people were coming in from outside of the city and judging the city and black governance in the city which is essentially what the state would have replaced is a big deal and the idea of restoring. Black governance has been really important. I think to the morale of the district state control in Michigan however it looked whether it was emergency management or financial oversight has been largely put in place in black and Brown communities on Detroit. Wasn't the only school district Detroit. The only city that had state control some black and Brown cities in Michigan have lost their public schools. Completely so race has been really really big part of this discussion. You know all of this is happening. Sasha in the backdrop of Cova nineteen. How have students in Detroit fared doing remote learning and does more money for the Public School System in Detroit even seem possible in the middle of this crisis so great question so as a vast digital divide here between since of the city and students outside of the city are students in surrounding suburbs Our splits removed really quickly to provide physical packets to support at home learning even while also really pushing the state to acknowledge that whatever happens educationally right now cannot count. It's gotta be considered enrichment because they're you know because I don't know I'm a parent like what can you expect from parents? So that happens last week. Lee City School district received funding from businesses and philanthropic organizations to provide tablets and Internet access to students to all of the students in the district in the hopes of being able to even provide just that enrichment to keep students engaged and in a position where they could possibly learn things before returning to the classroom whenever that happens. But it's a really kind of Tadic. Mix and a lot of the responsibility has fallen on teachers to check in visually with students out to call all of the students in the district. And just find out what's going on how they're doing how their families are doing and if they are learning at home and I don't think we really have a good sense for what's happening in homes and what kind of learning is getting done and I don't think we will install. We do. Get back into the classrooms. Sasha Ryan is an education reporter for wd at and Justin driver is a professor at Yale. Law School thank you both very much. Thank you thank you this week the takeaway and WNYC our home station in New York City where we're produced lost a friend and beloved co worker. Richard Hake died in his home from natural causes at age. Fifty one was the morning edition host on WNYC and before that he was the local anchor of the takeaway since the very beginning of the show in two thousand eight. Here's his voice from our very first show twelve years ago yesterday this is WNYC Good Morning. I'm Richard Hake in. It's our new news program the takeaway morning edition can be heard on. Ama Twenty also at seven o'clock this morning right here on ninety three point nine in local news. The Sean Bell case is still making headlines. This Monday morning relatives spoke out of here at the station. Hake was a mentor to many a leader in the newsroom and at the front line of the Union where he worked as a shop steward for years most of our takeaway team from producers to board operator's to hosts has worked with and learn from Richard for listeners. He was a voice of comfort and reassurance during uncertain times and many of you may have a Richard Hake in your own communities and can relate to the special place of a morning news host in our daily lives I spoke with Shumita Basu of reporter host and producer for WNYC news and Aroon Venugopal also reporter and host for WNYC who have both guest hosted here on the takeaway. And a rune worked alongside Richard in the newsroom. For nearly fifteen years I asked him why audiences felt so connected to Richard. He's great looking guy and he's like you know like in nineteen fifties like movies star in his dashing and I think when you first experienced that you would think like oh he's intimidating presence and reality is that he had this incredible ability to To make you feel at ease. He was very at ease in his own skin. He had this kind of like warm in his voice. And he had this warped in his body language and just naturalness. That made you feel like you're going to be taking care of. There's an an all comey in that process. That draws you from being like oh I've got these facts and figures that people need to know to something different to saying like. Oh He's excited. And and you kind of forget about the rest of the world and I think that's what really kind of a transfer people at home and a lot of that. You take for granted when you go through like day after day ever listened to public radio just your routine something you just kind of take for granted. I think it is really people like Richard who may get that kind of you know. The fireside glow fireside chat aspect of public radio. She made you know he also helped train you to sit in the big chair and build rapport with a huge audience. His audience was was the biggest of any during the day on. Wnyc what do you think it takes to make that connection with an audience and have them think of you as their radio friend. Oh Richard was so good at that. I think it's a combination of things. One thing that Richard was so so good at was making listeners. Feel like he was just speaking to them is just you and him at the table in the kitchen. And you don't say anything. Don't worry keep drinking your coffee. He's going to tell you everything he'll tell you the news. We'll tell you the weather he'll tell you how to dress before you step out the door that day and that's that's very intimate and when you recognize that intimacy as the host. As the speaker of those words That unlocks ability to to deliver it in that intimate way. Richard was so good at that at sort of recognizing the singularity of the listener. Yeah and I think he. He knew that it wasn't enough to be just some sort of abstract idea of the perfect informed and informing personality you know like his willingness to kind of reveal and a little bits unsolved to curious to be surprised by things. I mean. There's this this is great. Sort of like Tape going round last couple of days in these in these tributes of of Riding the roller coaster coney island and you can just kind of gamers screeching wonderful. We are on the world famous cyclone built in nineteen twenty seven. It's now celebrating. Its seventieth birthday and we're on the way up eighty five feet above the Atlantic Ocean in Coney Island here on my right as we go up I can see the Verrazano Narrows Bridge and the Manhattan Skyline and here we go. It says remain seated. Because the big drop eighty-five eight hearing. It is so amazing because it just you know this screech from this series US castor Kinda guy whatever and nothing you know not at all that kind of person of course but you know what could have been this very serious in sort of this automaton presence he was. He's a human and funny in those in those little ways just enough to make you feel like Oh. This is going to be fine. You know you're going to spend time with children in the city. They lost so much. There's so much pleasure to be taken in the city and you know and you know with each other really. I want both of you to tell just a little something you want people to take away from people who may not know of Richard or maybe they have someone who sort of their own Richard. Hake at their home station. What should people take away from? Richard's life and career. What you want them to walk away from this remembrance thinking about he leaves behind a legacy of such professionalism and Camaraderie. He was a person who could have just done either of those things really well but he did them both so well. He was exceptionally great at what he did as a broadcaster and he was also exceptionally great to his colleagues around him and Both of those things are things that I think. A lot of us have learned from in the newsroom and have changed the DNA. Our newsroom. Change the way that we are good to each other and check in with each other. You know Lizzie there. Some of us have known each other a long time and of wirt. Wnyc or public radio longer than by far longer than any anywhere else we've worked and there's a reason for that. I think and it's it's because there are people like Richard You do ask. Shumita said you know. How's it going you know? How are you like you know who show you that they care and are invested in you and I think what's made a painful This experience very sad for a lot of us is that you know we we. We couldn't be there for him. You know I it's been. It has been really nice. I think the fact that we been reaching out to each other and remembering Richard and better times And it's also very painful And I think for me it's also It's an occasion to kind of ask you know moments like this. Who ARE WE TO To one another you know what is our responsibility. You know what we owe each other you know in the end as soon as normal. Whatever that means comes back you know so. I think if there's one question I'm asking myself is when we remember Richard. How do right by? And how can we be that for one? Another aroon vinegar Paul and Shumita our reporters and hosts for WNYC and longtime friends and colleagues of Richard Hake WNYC morning edition host. Who passed away last week at the age of fifty one of natural causes should meet to Aroon? Thank you so much for this tribute and just taking the time to talk about Richard with me. Thank you was a ruin sending you love thinks back to you back thank you can buy. Lucy Paints too much. Richard Hake was part of this shows extended family. We offer our condolences to his loved ones which include our colleagues here at WNYC and all who are grieving. During this time and on a related note Shumita Basu will be hosting the takeaway starting next week for the last month. Tenzin of Vegas maternity leave. Thanks so much for listening today and every day I'm lizzy leary and this is the takeaway Oh.

Detroit The Times Richard Hake Richard WNYC Jackson Mississippi reporter Jessica United States Michigan Mississippi Supreme Court editor New York City Cheryl home plus Grose Sasha Ryan Jackson
"Quarantine Fatigue" and Navigating the Risks of Expanding Our Bubbles 2020-05-28

The Takeaway

1:13:20 hr | 1 year ago

"Quarantine Fatigue" and Navigating the Risks of Expanding Our Bubbles 2020-05-28

"Are you feeling it? The quarantine fatigue were now going to have to keep doing some amount of social distancing for months if not years and think now is the time to start thinking about how to do this in a sustainable way. I'm Shumita Basu. In for tenzing Vega and today on the takeaway for Thursday may twenty eighth. How you can begin to socialize at a safe distance. Also on the show for some the color of your skin dictates where you can and can't spend your time freely so when we're talking about predominantly white spaces. There's some idea that white people get to police who is present regardless of would not they own that space or have any inherent right to control enters that space then we'll speak with comedian tawny newsome about preparing to be a pilot on. Netflix's new Sitcom Space Force. I started scoping out looking for black women. Especially who officers in different branches of the military. I started looking for black women pilots. I mean that's the definition of why representation matters right. If you can see it then you can imagine yourself doing it but I. How long can we stay at home? Most of us have been following. Stay at home orders for weeks now and well. It is starting to take told as the weather warms up and people increasingly feel the mental and emotional strain of isolation quarantine. Fatigue is a part of our new reality and the need for social connection with friends and family is becoming increasingly important. We asked you our listeners. How quarantine fatigue is affecting? This is Michelle from Dallas Texas. I am absolutely feeling quarantine. The T. I don't know what information to trust. What safe where I can go and what I can do. I have met with some small groups of friends that I know where they've been and what they've been up to pretty much worn masks whenever I go out and hope that we're taking all the right precautions. Keep washing my hands. The best we can do is try to do the best for each other and hope that it works out rebel. I'm calling from Little Rock Arkansas. The way I'm feeling with quarantine fatigue is that I sit in my garage lifting out at all the traffic going up and down the street my try to get out here every day for at least an hour just to take in the fresh year look at the birds and contemplate. What the new normal we'll be. This is Nancy from Berkeley and I am definitely feeling quarantine fatigue. Fortunately I live in a nice area with Nice weather and Nice places to hike. So I've been doing two one is. I've never gotten so much use out of my backyard. Which is big enough to meet with one or two friends that a time and sit at a distance and the other is going distance birding with a couple of friends we stay six feet apart. We picked wide trails and we get up into the hills and out into nature rich from San Jose California. We are spend a little time with some friends. Most of our friends feel the same way about the coronavirus taking it seriously Not Getting too crazy about it but definitely taking it seriously. We've had some friends over to the house. Purple Party But you know. Only a handful of people Just trying to be conscientious of of potential downfall of that just trying to live life as normally as possible. Hi this is the Dandruff. From the only Hoon for the first six weeks we did not need up with other people like about two weeks ago. We had friends over in our backyard. Were about ten feet away from us. And they were sitting on a blanket and we were sitting on the table and it was just so wonderful view able to spend time with people that we care about. This quarantine is getting old. But I'm not giving up the scientists guidelines now that I got nine masks and plenty of toilet paper. I'm okay plus I just found out my real hair color is this is Barbara and San Jose. Kristen from Ridgewood New York having a really hard time with quarantine fatigue and wanting to open up to grandparents the kids killing so guilty on both sides and I feel guilty grandparents. Don't get to see the kids enough and I'm also doing horrible. If they would ever get anyone in a family sick it's something just about everyone is grappling with right now. For more navigating the risks of seeing friends and family spoke with Julia. Marcus Infectious Disease Epidemiologist. And an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School. She recently wrote a piece published in the Atlantic on quarantine fatigue and Christina. Kata Rucci a writer for slate magazine. She's written about her decision to form a quarantine bubble with people outside of her household and Julia says it's no surprise that this fatigue is setting in now in early March when we started this whole staying at home thing. Read all kinds of hopes that it would be a few weeks and then we'd be back to our lives as they were before cove. Ed came along but now we're we're several months into this and it's become very clear that while we really needed to be staying home for those few months and it had an enormous impact that was really necessary renowned going to have to keep doing some amount of social distancing for months if not years and so. I think now is the time to start thinking about how to do this in a sustainable way. Yeah and do you argue that this sort of all or nothing approach to quarantine might not really be ideal. That's right if we think about this with the analogy of only messaging what we're being asked to abstain from right now is social contact. And I think that's doable. For many people for a short period of time but I think we can also all agree that it's not feasible for people to sustain no social contact for a really extended period of time and sometimes there are inadvertent consequences of abstinence only messaging. And we see that in the context of let's say telling teens not to have any sex some ultimately will and if we don't give them strategies to reduce risk if they do choose to have sex than we've missed an opportunity and that's why we sometimes see worse. Health outcomes with abstinence only messaging and the same may happen here so Christina. You wrote about how you decided to form a quarantine bubble with some of your friends. Who aren't in the same household. Tell us how the bubble works. And what are the rules? So the general concept of forming a quarantine bubble is very similar to the idea of just expanding your household to include more people so it's a close circle of people in my bubble it's three different households of two people each and we've all agreed that we're going to have contact with each other go to each other's houses interact as closely as we would with a family member but not have interactions with people the House. So essentially we've expanded our quarantine unit to be slightly larger. And for me the impetus was just. I was feeling incredibly isolated. You know my wife and I don't live in a big house. We don't have a backyard and like a lot of people you know. We were feeling really lonely. Cut off from our community which is really important to us and we decided that the risk of increasing our family unit by four other people would be marginal if we limited our contact outside of that bubble. Over the course of a couple of weeks we had discussions with these two other households of Friends of ours and decided. We're all going to take extremely conservative precautions. Outside of our bubble wearing masks not seeing anybody else at a distance closer than six to ten feet but with each other you know will interact as we would inside our own household so having dinner together hanging out together and it has given us a little bit of a sense of normalcy in this incredibly abnormal. Time Julia Christina. There's talking about sort of assessing the risks involved. It seems are could be a trade off between the mental health costs of staying isolated and the public health costs of going outside or meeting up with friends and family. How can people navigate that balance in a responsible way? I think what we WANNA do is help people see these options like what Christina's describing where you expand your bubble to include another household and you do it very carefully and with a lot of good communication around risk. That's a lower risk option for social contact than what we may have done previously witches. Let's say have multiple dinner parties a week with our families that becomes much higher risk and if there is a real need for social contact like what Christina just described then that strategy of the bubble which is what some Canadian provinces in New Zealand or calling it becomes a harm reduction strategy where it accepts that somebody might need to have social contact. And here's a lower risk way to do it. Then a situation like crowded house party that could potentially become a super spreader event. That's really what we want to avoid. So it's not zero risk because you know every new social contact is going to increase risk. But it's definitely lower risk than some other alternatives. That people may be considering right now and. I'm glad that you mentioned the concept of harm-reduction Julia because I've also been thinking about what happens if our quarantine has to last for twelve to eighteen more months or or there's another spiking coronavirus cases and we have to lock lockdown again for me having my own plan for limited social contacts. That is really sustainable. I mean I feel like my social needs are being met right now in a limited way. I find myself way less likely to want to go out and have a spontaneous dinner party with other friends or I feel the need to go out to a restaurant or a movie theater or any of these places that I might have been longing for if I was just trapped in my own apartment with one other person for months at a time. I knew a lot of people are talking about even just with their partner at home the need for socialization and really the need for their friends and Christina. You wrote about how your quarantine bubble is made up of all queer friends really your chosen family and that people maybe understand best. This need to look beyond your immediate family for support to tell us more about that. I think the concept of chosen family is a really natural and organic one for a lot of us You know whether it be because we are estranged from our families of birth or just because we create community wherever we are so we develop very close family like relationships with people in our in our communities. we're also all very familiar with conversations that people have around non monogamous relationships around harm reduction and sex We're all familiar with the history of HIV and AIDS So the conversations that we have had around you know our tolerance for risk within our quarantine bubble and generally trust have felt very queer and very familiar to a lot of us from different areas of our lives and in some ways you know. I think those family like relationships that we already have have forms the basis of trust that made me feel comfortable joining a quarantine bubble as I've talked to other friends and coworkers about this. Some people have said things like well you know. How do you trust that? No one's going to pop the bubble and have a secret hang out with a friend or by women in their house and I mean I I completely trust these people. I wouldn't have entered a bubble if I didn't feel that we were all sort of mutually committed to one another in this moment and in a very important way you know when we're trying to prevent the spread of this virus that we know very little about Julia. I feel like I've been seeing on social media videos of people breaking social distancing rules. Maybe they were partying together or just large throngs of people in public spaces together and I've been seeing a lot of kind of shaming happening on social media but you say that shaming doesn't actually work in situations like this. Why not? Well I am coming at this as an HIV prevention researcher and we know that when we shame people for engaging and behavior that might increase their risk of HIV. Let's say having condom X. then that behavior becomes stigmatized people are afraid to disclose it. It doesn't actually stop the behavior. What it does is it pushes people away from disclosing that behavior. Let's say to a healthcare provider and the results is that people don't end up getting the health care that they need and you can imagine how that would play out right now. For example we may be shamed people for gathered. Bring in a park having a picnic. Not Wearing masks. And if we call them out on social media they next time may not have that picnic and instead they take that socializing indoors where it actually becomes higher risk and then you can also imagine that. If there's an outbreak in not situation and contact razors are trying to locate. All the people who attended the event those people may be hesitant to disclose that they were there and essentially shaming in. The End. Doesn't have the effect that we wanted to. It doesn't make big go away. It drives it. Underground drives people away from accessing public health services that they need. I feel like we're we're talking a lot about balancing and assessing risks but for some people there are structural factors like systemic racism or poverty. That take that decision making around the risks. Completely out of your hands Juliet. How do you think public health officials could take that into account in their guidelines? Considering context is a really important part of harm reduction and one of the ways that it can help is that when we think about the context in which people make decisions about. Let's say social distancing. Then we start to remember that. They may not have total control over their situation. There may be context like depression because of isolation but as you pointed out there may also be structural factors like systemic racism that make it very difficult to social distance. And that's why people have been talking about social distancing being privilege. We can also think about scenarios like the story of the hairdresser that was shared a couple days ago who continued to work. Despite public health guidelines and ended up being linked to many new cases and in that scenario that hairdresser was shamed but as an individual he was making a decision in the context of meeting a paycheck and not having enough social support or resources from the government to allow him to stay home and stop working and when we blame that individual we distract from where the accountability really lies which is on the institutions that failed to support him so when we come at this from a heart addiction approach we keep that context. Trenton Center to avoid blaming the individual and also to remember where resources are actually needed. You know I'll be honest. I've been personally having a hard time thinking about when I might be able to see my grandmother's again They both live in different countries. Different from each other as well and I'm sure that many others are in a similar situation with older family members who live more than a car right away. Juliette can you navigate the risks when thinking about trying to see your family members who live far away? I mean certainly for somebody who is more local. We can think about low risk ways to have a visit that might include being outdoors and remaining physically distant. Not Sharing food wearing masks. But then when you're talking about flying to see somebody at becomes more complicated I think in that scenario ways to reduce risk would be to quarantine yourself for two weeks on either side of the trip and have the family that you're visiting do the same and to be as careful as possible on the actual trip In terms of potential exposure at the airport or on the airplane Christina has this come up in your quarantine bubble anyone wanting to visit others especially elderly family members. I think that's when it really comes into into play wanting to break a rule or were were do it responsibly. Yeah we actually do have One couple in our bubble who are planning visit to an older family member out in California and in some ways the fact that we have a bubble is making it a lot easier to plan a trip like that you know my wife and I are going to care for their dog We're able to drive them to the airport so they don't have to take a lift or public transportation and then we're starting conversations about what happens when they returned from that trip. You know we'll big warranty in from our bubble will the rest of US see them. But but you know thoroughly limit our contact with the outside world even more than we're doing right now But it helps to have other people to discuss those things with you. Know it's it's more people who can be doing research it's more Opinions and support that we can share with one another Y- those questions aren't easy for anyone. What about for people with children? I feel like I've been hearing from a lot of my parents friends that they are just wishing and dying to set up play dates for their kids. But they want to think about how to do that responsibly. Is there a way to consider it responsibly? As a mom of two little kids there are three and six. This is definitely the front of my mind as well I think quiz older kids. It's a bit easier because they may have an ability to understand the that's six feet of distance and I found that our kids really adapted very quickly to not known and now they police us. We stand to close to someone. Say Mama that's that's you know less than six feet so I I think it is possible to think about ways that you could maybe meet up in a park and have your kids kick a soccer ball around or go on a bike ride with another kid and a couple of parents and then another approach would be the one that Christina's taking where you find another family that has kids the same age and decided to be a according team together and those kids can play together without the need for physical distancing and again it's not zero risk but it is lower risk than your kids having a play date with different kids every few days and what about in general. I mean what types of activities would you advise listeners to consider that could be low risk and could definitely satisfy that sense of socialization that people are missing? I think the key here at least for these next few months is going to be being outdoors and keeping social interactions outdoors as much as possible. And of course that's easier in some places that have more outdoor space than others like really dense cities but as much as you know cities can be thinking about opening up more outdoor space for people. I think that will help and You know activities like walking with somebody biking with someone going on a run with someone. Those are very low risk activities that can give people enough social contact that they feel sustained. And if if people do WANNA get together in a group Try to keep that outdoors and try to maintain a distance and try not to share food. Those are kind of And of course masks all these same messages that we've been hearing for the last couple of months still hold but I think we have a better understanding now. That transmission risk is much lower outdoors than it is in doors and so that can help us think about ways that we can get some of that social contacts at least while. The weather's pretty good over these next few months. Christina any last advice for people who might be listening and thinking. That sounds like a good idea. Maybe I should form my own quarantine bubble. I would just say it's important to take into consideration. What your lives are like before committing to a pod. I mean we're all very lucky in that we have jobs that allow us to work from home. We don't have to take public transit to go to each other's houses and none of us have any indoor interaction with people who aren't in our pod. I know not. Everybody has that ability which can make it hard if you have a group of friends with different jobs. That require them to be working with a person in a very vulnerable community. Who might be at risk for extra complications from Corona virus? I also think it's important to have honest conversations about your own understanding of the risks of being in a pod and in your activities outside the pod if we weren't all sort of on the same page in our desire to take very conservative precautions outside the pot. I don't think any of US would have wanted to commit to an exclusive household relationship with the others but one of the best parts about it if you are able to make it. Work is the occasional ability to forget that the pandemic exists. The only time that I've really been able to do that has been when I've been you know in somebody else's house interacting with other people in a way that I otherwise haven't been able to for months now and I can't overstate the psychic relief that I've gotten from that Julian. Marcus is an infectious disease. Epidemiologist and Assistant Professor at Harvard Medical School and Christina. Qatar RUCCI is a writer for sleep magazine. Thank you both for being here. Thank you thank you on Tuesday. The Justice Department informed three senators that it will no longer be investigating them for violating insider trading rules back in March four senators were found to have sold stocks after private congressional briefings on the severity of the COVID nineteen crisis. The four senators independently made millions of dollars from the sales although the investigation on Senators Feinstein in half and Leffler are ending the DOJ will continue investigating Republican. Senator Richard Burr joining us. Now is Max Kutner journalists covering the Justice Department Max. It's great to have you back here. So why is the federal government no longer investigating those three senators senators? Feinstein inhofe in Leffler. Well we don't exactly know the and this is typical typically when people are not charged by the Justice Department. We don't even know there's a case against them let alone of the reasons why that case would've been dropped. Even though some high profile cases we have learned that information for so. It's likely we won't learn the reasons The reasons I think are because of what they've said publicly which is their defense it was. We did not do these ourselves. These were our financial advisers. We had no part in the trading of these stocks so it appears that the Justice Department probably bought that argument. And because Senator Richard. Burs argument was different. Maybe that's why that case appears to be ongoing. And what was Senator Burs argument? He argued that it wasn't that he didn't make the trades. It was that he did so with public information. Information coming out of China not information about the corona virus that he gained from his role as a senator or from private briefings. Have we seen anything like this? In the past where senators engage in this type of action and potentially are not held responsible. Because they're able to say a financial adviser told me to do it what we have seen the issue of lawmakers and accusations of inside trading before and until recently it was thought that lawmakers were actually immune thanks to the constitution for any insider trading really that had to do with their legislative roles now in two thousand twelve the Obama Administration signed into law. Some legislation called the Stock Act. That would try to close that loophole and stock that stands for stop trading on Congressional Knowledge. Act And what the legislation said. Was that a member of Congress or employees of Congress can't use non public information derived from their position as a means of making a private profit and it specifically said this meant to close the insider trading loophole. Now that was in two thousand hundred. And it's been pretty untested since then only once was it enforced and that was against a member of Congress who had information based on a specific company. So it's a bit different from what we're seeing now where Senator Burr had this information more generally about the state of things generally about the corona virus and not necessarily about a specific company. So that is likely going to be the role that prosecutors are looking into. It's unclear of that will be enough to bring charges or even move forward and bring conviction. So what does this mean now for the other three senators? Are they just off the hook entirely well? They've certainly been dusted up by this. It's interesting. I'm seeing a lot of chatter on twitter today and yesterday since this news Basically taking the the political sides but you have people on one side saying this is another example of FBI bound practice in that they're dropping their case against Senator Feinstein is a Democrat and then on the other side you have Senator Leffler who's Republican saying this is? She's calling this a left wing witch hunt and so each side is kind of using this to push their cause when really given that there was a Democrat and there were three Republicans. This is kind of a bipartisan issue. But Kelly Leffler does have a lot more to gain with the closure of this as she is up for election in November. She's currently held holding seat to what she was appointed by the governor so the November election will be a special election. She's running against Republican representative. Doug Collins who is an ally of president trump's he got a lot of airtime during the impeachment hearings as ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee and poll show that he is right now in the lead so leffler has a lot more to gain by going on. Tv as she's been doing the past twenty four hours and saying these charges were dropped against me. let's move forward from this. And what about for Senator Burr? Could you sort of walk us through? Maybe the range of repercussions he may be facing sugar. So the case against Moore is said to be ongoing. He had to step down temporarily from the Senate Intelligence Committee. This is a major committee. This is one of the committees. That's been investigating Russia and as recently as the day that he stepped down Even released it's it's Even add some news on its Russia. Investigation set it had finished the Russia. Investigation was now awaiting clearance on the final volume of its report. So that hasn't even come out yet. he's also self reported to the Senate Ethics Committee so they are presumably looking into this and he was said to be retiring. Twenty twenty two not too long from now so if this is kind of how he ends his career. That's not a great thing from him he. He's had a very long career so he would also have a lot to gain from this going away but the investigation is ongoing and time will tell if prosecutors by his defense so far and of the Senate ethics committee by his defense so far that again he Made these decisions based on public information. Not Information he derived from his role as a senator I is there any possibility that the investigation into burke could reopen an investigation into the other three senators. Anything IS POSSIBLE. Shumita the but that seems unlikely. It does seem that Given that they were cleared pretty quickly. Those other three senators and it didn't even escalate to charges let alone moving forward with a case against them It seems unlikely that they have much to worry about moving forward Max. Kutner is a journalist covering the justice. Department Max. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you By now you've probably seen or heard about the viral video showing Christian Cooper black man being threatened by a white woman Amy Cooper not while he was bird-watching in Central Park. I'm going to learn African American man. Threatening my life in the video Christian asks her to leash her dog in a Popular Bird. Watching destination called the ramble. We're are required to be leashed at all times instead of leaving her dog. Amy Calls the police on him falsely accusing him of threatening her life. The incident raises a lot of questions including about who can safely engage with nature in certain spaces. Drew Lanham is a professor of Wildlife Ecology at Clemson University. He's been bird-watching since he was five or six years old. Well it was nature and nurture for me. It's was growing up in rural South Carolina Edgefield South Carolina on a family farm and in having birds really as this constant companions and marveling over their flight as a black man. Drew has spent years navigating the overwhelmingly White Space. That is birdwatching. A warning that this conversation contains strong language that some listeners may find offensive the best way to put it. It's one of the whitest hobbies that you can have navigated it most recently. A suppose with with lots of friends who may not share my skin color but who share a passion for birds. And so. There's this transcendent sort of nature of loving birds. That's helped me to navigate pretty serious social issues. I think about those epic migratory journeys I think about their ranges and and what it takes to be a bird to weigh no more than a handful of paperclips to lie downs of miles to sing. Your songs. Uninhibited there's something to admire that. But then I'm pulled back into realities of unarmed people. Black people being being killed and it makes me wonder if I'm safe in my backyard. Doing what I'm doing and the most recent episode with Christian Cooper in Central Park took me back to almost exactly a year ago when I was in new city. I believe in Talking at the American Museum of Natural History About Inclusion Earth Sea and conservation in having a walk in the park. We were in a place where it wasn't a big deal. Apparently it seem to see black men. Three black men birding now come full circle with all that's happening in the world it makes the navigation tricky. The new stream tells me that there's another reality out there that I have to cope with it. So sort of constantly back and forth and back and forth. Have you yourself had to confront racism while out birdwatching? Yeah have And it's funny. It's not something I really recognized. I think until I was much older probably in my my late twenties early thirties at began to wonder where the others were. That looked like me. You must love birds as much as I did. So I became aware of the potential for for danger out there that there were places for example in western North Carolina where there were encampments of racists who were literally targeting black people. It wasn't the direct contact. It was the possibility of it and so I've always been keenly aware of maps range is of racists where they are of confederate flags of places where people suddenly call their homeland As separatists. They should be there and no one else should be there. So that was really one of my first realities. I think in that quagmire that racism is and sort of pulls you down mentally but directly more recently having an encounter with with someone who do consider the good old days the days of of niggers picking incontinent and In in having this very odd I won't even call a conversation but this listening in sitting in hearing someone referring to me to black people as that was Was a again sort of grounding. It was This fall from flight and but As a black American I think you sort of steel yourself. You learned to expect. Unfortunately these incidents some of them are microaggressions. Most people would not recognize others are are macro aggressions. Like I said when I see confederate flags it gives me pause when I see certain other flags. It gives me pause to go into place. And so it's a daily thing. You drill you speak with such joy and reference about bird-watching and yet you also talk about the distracting thoughts particularly because you are a black man who does bird-watching I mean. Does it distract at all from what you're setting out to do when you go out. Yeah in some ways. They're are places that that I won't go. I mean again I talk about ranges and range maps and I I have a range map just like birds have arranged man. I have my own sort of rather than a field. I have a field guide and I feel my way alward and and feeling your way forward is A tough way to go. Sometimes when you you WanNa follow wild and free things if you're inhibited. In some way if you know there is a place where you shouldn't go or if there are markers like those flags that tell you know what you might not be welcome here or if there's a history really been passed down of a sundown town or if there's something in the news that has alerted you to the potential or were danger or if there's a lingering look in a neighborhood when you're chasing some rarity and you know that made me. That neighborhood is so diverse and people would recognize you as being out of place you know the Ahmad Aubrey. That story hit hard for all of us in in many different ways. But I I couldn't help but think about times that I've been in neighborhoods. That weren't my neighborhood walking around mostly with friends but on occasion on occasion or two alone looking for some bird and I'm sure I was being watched because I wasn't supposed to be there or being stopped by the police who Saami place and said well. You look like a suspect and being detained on my own campus. Those are are sort of these constant things. Yes that distract we develop? I think and when I say we I mean black folks I think we develop this sixth and seventh cents. That's that's adaptive that helps you understand. You know this is a place that you should be a place that you shouldn't be or maybe this is a place you can drive by and look but don't get out You know maybe this is a place that you go with a white friend and sometimes that's the advice that I've given other friends. I've said if you're going to go in that neighborhood why don't you take call white bird or friend to go with you? And and they can serve as a buffer or a guy because black people walking around with binoculars or spotting scopes might not be accepted so readily and in some places drew you've written about the parallels you see between the experience of birds and marginalized communities you've written about this in Audubon magazine. Can you explain what you mean by that? It's part of my bird brandon nece to to see my life through a bird's life into to see that struggle that birds experience and all that they have to overcome a single hooded warbler for example to have traveled from Central America to made some Lee across the Gulf of Mexico in a non stop flight and then to to reach the Gulf shores And then to work its way through swamps and forests would lots overdeveloped lands where it cannot land to be in my presence and it's made that epic journey if everything goes right it has not Head to endure some of the things that humans have done but more than likely it's head to to to died not only natural predators but things like outdoor cats may have Head to dodge buildings it may have had to fly through skies that are lit up and so the human equivalent of that I think is what we face often face on a daily basis that there are barriers that each of us no matter what color faces on a daily basis. Things that we go through no life is without trial but there these tribulations of success that we can experience but then when their other barriers that are put up when you're already dealing with issues and then out of nowhere comes this Predatory Reich of prejudice. Then there you are. You're you're trying to make your way to some place just as that bird is but there's there's something that's come in. That's interrupted you. It's interrupted your day. It's thrown you off your flight path and suddenly you're misplaced your displaced. You're a bird that S- out of out of habitat you're out of your norm and you've got a reset and that reset takes energy and on a daily basis to have to spend your energy not just being you but wondering why somebody hates you for being. When I was watching this hooded were the other day and was amazed at the song. The song bird was singing. And I'm looking at its plumage. This this wonderful olive backed lemon yellow breasted blazer with a yellow face that's encircled the males faces yellow faces encircled by this black hood. This bird was singing on territory. And I'm watching it and Absorbing it but had in my mind is I was watching it that this bird could wear. It's good without trepidation without profiling without having to worry about someone killing it. Just because it's a Hutu warbler. I really thought that I my mind went there at the same time as I was loving this bird and relaxing my time alone with it. There was nothing else in the world at at time there was this part of me that was thinking What would it be like to be a bird and have that actual freedom of no judgment of no suspicion? That's my Feather fascinated life. I guess you. What is your favorite bird? My favorite bird is the one with feathers. They sure it's unfair to ask. What your favorite world's no it's fun to think about. I have list of birds that I I love right now. Probably if I if I were pressed it'd probably be the loggerhead shrike which is a songbird. That's rapid decline But it's a song bird that has had its that some people don't like it each that eats small mammals in songbirds but it impales on thorns because it skeet are two but it is a songbird and and so it's involved in in Sort of this ecological code switching which people of Color spent a Lotta time doing sort of switching between one persona and the other? That's right that's my favorite bird for right. Now if I have to name one but writ large it's the one with others Q. I want to ask you to explain that. A little bit further code switching from birds perspective and code switching from your human perspective. What do you mean by that? Well you know there's this personality that that we all have our base of who we are. It's your psychic closure psychological vestments as it that when you go out to a business meeting you know. You're wearing collared shirt. You're you're wearing a certain things and you have certain comportment. Your behavior is at a certain level. Well the what's the first thing that most of us do when we get back home we can't wait to get into our sweat pants and A T shirt and kick off the shoes and we kick off our feet and we are not worried so much about proper comportment. That's a kind of code switching code switching year cultural code switching and and Which goes a little deeper in in how we might speak or whether or not we use certain colloquialisms when we're out when we get back home or whether you know decide to relax and and maybe my voice gets a little more southern than it used user. You know it's it's those things that non union. We're all sort of chameleons. In that way for birds that code switching goes not so much into who the? Burt is always tell my bird friends. Don't be worried about misidentifying bird. Because they know who they are. Loggerhead shrike does what it does. It is who it is as a bird but code switching comes in when we perceive the bird when we make judgment calls on the bird because of behavior just as it does with human so the old name for the loggerhead shrike is which bird and they were seeing as being injurious to other birds. You look at some of the old text and they will talk about Protecting most birds but killing hawks. Owls and Shreiks were considered Rap To`real in that they would sometimes kill other song birds. And so here's a bird that has a life is a songbird that lives but humans. Place it in another category. And so that's a to me. That's sort of this cultural code switching externally of expectation. I see so many birds sort of in these In these double sided mirrors. I see them for the wonderful ecological beings that they are and I try to understand that as an observer and a scientist to not judge their behavior but then to study how are we have defined these birds because of that behavior that we've put them that we've bracketed them into categories of acceptable and not acceptable Of A good bird and a bad bird. That's that something that Interests me greatly and I think impacts how how birds are conserved. What can the bird-watching community due to be more inclusive? There's some great folks out there that are that are really trying to solve that that problem or at least address it. I don't WanNa lay all of the responsibility on on the birdwatching community but I I WANNA lady hones- On birdwatchers as people who many care about birds not just to count or list them but to conserve them And and to conserve means to care with some intensity so that You save some for others. It's supposed to be a selfless act and so there's love involved and if there's love involved for awhile thing Who Hires needs the same air? The saint water the same soil This same healthy earth that hopefully we're striving for then then then birdwatchers can be onboard for that and part of that is social justice in part of that is paying attention taking the binoculars down in seeing around you in recognizing that things might be different recognizing that you're in a monolith and that if you're GONNA go forward if we're going to go forward in a way to help protect the earth to help protect birds wherever in central park or Saskatchewan or or South Carolina that lately it comes down to US joining together in a way and recognizing are the fates are tied together with at birds have always been. Our gods are sort of signatories were for the environment. We have to pay attention. Not just to the birds that we see through binoculars but we have to pay attention to what's beyond those binoculars to what's in the periphery. I'm always struck when we'll go into an impoverished area to see some rare bird ticket off the list and we're carrying optics that represent a large fraction of the per capita income. But we leave with only those birds on our list but we've left nothing better or those communities behind and so I would like to see burden community. Individuals and organizations really be used this opportunity. All this conversation that we're having Schmidt a be not just inclusive. I'm not just count diversity but to be intensely intentional about inclusion to to call out the wrong when you see it to not just film it to not just be a stander by to not just be an observer to not just say I'm sorry to not just be mad about it but to do something about it to talk to your friends for. I think the big moves now really are quite frankly or white people to talk to white people and to say we can't tolerate this. I think back in my parents in the civil rights movement and I think about it in the civil rights movement wasn't just about black rights. It was about everyone's rights and I think now is the time for a new kind of movement and for for feeling thinking knowing people to step forward in ways that they may not have before. And and sometimes maybe to engage peacefully but forcefully. But then to disengage. I I don't I don't have any room in my life or my My social media pages for people who would excuse the kinds of behavior that we've just seen. I don't have that space in my head or my heart to carry a long hate. That's what I would like in my world I would like to for people to see birds and be transcended through them to understand that this world can be better for for all of us but we have to make moves and we have to make those moves now. Drew Lanham is an avid bird watcher and a professor of Wildlife Ecology at Clemson University. We're going to continue our conversation about the racist incident in Central Park by stepping back from bird watching and talking more about quote white spaces in general and how black people are expected to navigate them. Joining me is Mickey Kendall Feminist writer and the author of the Book Hood Feminism Notes from the women that a movement for God. When Mickey I saw the Central Park video she said it was hard to process. What exactly she was seeing on the screen. Because what you're seeing if somebody lie and build the Lai coldly in front of you right so she's not endanger. He asked her to back up. You can see that this is not really scary situation so it's very disconcerting Behave verbally not physically. But somehow scared or upset but physically be the aggressor and then as she's using her words for lack of a way to put it building a narrative that is a threat all while feigning fear right. We're supposed to think she scared. But the video shows a. She's not afraid she approaches him and gets belligerent. With him and when she tells him that she's going to call and say it's an African American man and you watch voice go from angry to teary and it's completely fake It's such a disturbing sequence to watch like my first thought was what is this is the stage. And then there was. It wasn't stage and then trying to follow the pattern in her head. That made her think the video camera in front of her wooden reveal what she was doing. Mickey I actually want to play for our listeners. If they haven't heard exactly what you're talking about the tone and the inflection of Amy Cooper's voice and how that changed during the video let's listen. So that's that's Amy Cooper and there was a lot of public outcry on social media about this incident caught on camera but I was also struck by some of the ways that people were defending her actions. Were you seeing those types of defenses? What what were your reactions to that. So it was an interesting lesson. How implicit bias makes people see what they're most comfortable with so people said well? We don't know how her day started. We don't know you know. Maybe she was having a bad day. You Watch someone across the sequence of minutes make decisions choices. Go from calm to upset or really calm to rage and then to fake fear. We watched her do all of these things but people were saying well maybe maybe she didn't mean for him to get hurt but she told you she did. She told you when she said I'm going to tell them. It's an African American male. Yeah and there is a long history of course of white women accusing falsely accusing Lachmann of crimes. And I'm thinking of everything from Emmett till two more recent examples like this one. How does this incident compared to other situations where white women weaponized there tiers against black people so the good news is that Christian Cooper was not injured? He was not arrested or harassed. The bad news is that this was a fluke. He's an outlier more often than not and we can talk about Susan Smith. We can talk about John Crawford the third in Ohio who was shot in Walmart. Because someone's false call. We can talk about you know. Amber Geiger who breaks into? Someone's house and shoot them all of these things more often than not this ends in some kind of harm whether it be an arrest and the person who didn't commit a crime being harassed by police or abused by police losing part of their livelihood or their good name or worse someone ending debt right as even as we watched this playing out in Minnesota. We saw the police Neil on a man neck until he was dead right. There's no guns involved because someone said well. No one came with guns. We don't need a gun to kill to kill a man. You're going to kill a woman and this history. Even though I know Christian Cooper has since said that. He didn't want her life to be torn apart. It's it's about Christian Cooper but it's not really about Christian Cooper about all of the people who can be hurt by this right we see no reports and hopefully the police just didn't respond aggressively. Imagine if that entire scene had played out differently and let's say Christian Cooper continued his birding but four or five seven ten other people who fit her description which is a black man in a bicycle helmet within stopped. Acosta by police were abused by police. Because let's be clear if you google. Nypd and brutality. The record is there. She knows exactly where she lives. She knows exactly what she's doing. You know it makes me think also about who can and who can't weaponize law enforcement to their advantage and I I understand. The answer here might be obvious. But what does it tell you that? She decided in that moment to call the police. The polite way to put this is that she relied on the state. You exactly what the state has always done serve the interest of white supremacy? That was what she felt was necessary in the moment because someone had dared to challenge her internal narrative about her right to do whatever she wanted however she wanted. Let's be clear here. She knew she could call the police and that they would do this thing and includes the start of mentioned. He's an African American male in all of this because she's comfortable she never has to fear the police. She's never been afraid of the cops. And that says a lot about what policing really is in America and its purpose. If you're going to argue that we need the police who's the week who's who were. They protecting who were they serving? Whose interests are they handling. Because let's be clear this was about putting a leash on a dog obeying the posted times right and she was willing to risk his life so she didn't have to put a leash on a dog now on Monday. Amy Cooper this this white woman told NBC New York quote. I sincerely and humbly apologize to everyone especially to that man his family. What did you make of amy? Cooper's apology that wasn't an apology. Why not that was Amy Cooper? Absolving are attempting to absolve herself before the consequences showed up because by that point we knew his name. So that man we. We CAN'T APOLOGIZE TO I. Apologize to Mr Cooper secondly to anyone. I might have offended. You didn't just offend someone. You filed a false police report. You knowingly willfully chose to file a false police report and aside from the fact that's apparently a crime in New York. You did so in such a way. As to guarantee your head. He would be punished for daring to tell you to obey the law so sure she sorry she got caught. She sorry that the video went viral. I'll believed that. Is she sorry for her behaviour. I have a much more difficult time because part of that apology was. I'm not racist but she just weaponized race on video so yes you are racist. Let's talk about that. Because as people have continued to look into this woman. Amy Cooper. Some have pointed out that she's donated to recent Democratic candidates She donated to President Obama's campaign and some it seems are seeing that as a sort of cognitive dissonance. Like this idea that Amy Cooper might actually identify as a liberal. What does this tell you about the white liberal identity? I wouldn't necessarily say that she would identify as a liberal. I would say that. There was a wide gap between tea party conservatives and literally the entire rest of the political spectrum and so for a lot of people who I donated to Obama. It's because they didn't like his opponent. Let's start there then. Let's also talk about the fact that being quote unquote liberal throughout American history for especially in terms of white liberal. Politics has never meant that. You were not racist. You know like we have a narrative that Lincoln freed the slaves way he didn't and be. Are we really going to say? He's liberal because he didn't want to keep an institution going that he already knew was going to fail and especially when we know that his plan was then to deport everyone of color everyone who had been a former slave so it's not that we have this binary of either you are liberal and not racist or you're conservative and racist it's like everything else. A spectrum sure she may not be. I will burn a cross on your lawn. She apparently is. I will file a false police report with NYPD racist. This incident took place In an area in central park which is very popular with birdwatchers. Which as we've just been discussing is an overwhelmingly white space. How are people of Color especially black? People expected to navigate these types of white spaces so one of the interesting things is that you can tell that. She doesn't think he has a right to be there or that. He doesn't have as much of a right as she does. But in those spaces you're somehow both supposed to be glad to be present and then defer I guess to whiteness but the reality is that if we're in this world where everyone is equal and racism doesn't exist and post racial and all the things then everyone has a right to be everywhere but the expectation is that somehow we accept that white people have more of a right and that they get to direct their attention to who is there in a way as though I own this space and you have to prove your right to be here. You have to justify your presence right so when we're talking about predominantly white spaces. There's some idea that white people get police who was present regardless of whether or not they own that space or have any inherent right to control. Who enters that space and that black people are supposed to accept it? That other people of color are supposed to accept especially black people especially black men on thinking about in the aftermath of incidents like this The emotional burden often falls on black people. What are your suggestions for how white people can better shoulder that burden and take on some of the very necessary conversations need to take place. I think in some very important ways we have to be teaching white people. In Particular General Society America has to START TEACHING ANTI-RACISM. Not just as a general. Don't be like the clan. But that's an a very specific direct and using examples like this. Don't be a Karen. Don't think you own the space or the right to access to a space that you don't we kind of have to teach not to be racist not to think you have more validity as a person than someone else because of the color of their skin and we have to start that not at the high school or college or whatever. We're currently arguing is old enough to learn about race. Black children have to learn about racism before they're even born. They experienced it before they're born. They have to deal with at in the hospital. You have to deal with that. When I go home. Their families have to deal with it so so should white children. They should be dealing with race and racism at the same rate as everyone who experiences Mikki Kendall is a feminist writer and author of the Books Hood Feminism and Amazon's abolitionists and activists. Mickey thank you so much for coming back on the show. Thank you for having Megan. We're going to end the hour by hearing from Comedian Tawny newsome. Tony is prolific within the comedy podcasting world and recently she's been picking up increasingly high profile acting jobs. The last project that Tony Films before lockdowns went into effect in the US was an episode of Jordan peels the twilight zone it was so surreal to be filming an episode of the twilight zone amidst a blossoming global pandemic. I played a surgeon so literally my last seen that I filmed was miss scrubbing in for surgery. So she's different angles of washing my hands while I'm thinking about how I just have to get off this set full of a hundred people immediately washing. It may be some time before. Tiny is back on a film set. But this week you can find her starring alongside Steve Carell and John Malkovich in Netflix's space force loosely inspired by the real life military branch formed under president trump. Space Force was created by Great Daniels. Who is best known for making the American version of the office? Tani's character Angela. Ali is a pilot who takes her role within the space. For very seriously you to get back here. Now Yeah you. You said some disrespectful to my guest. So you're GONNA take a little run East launch pad for Pharma and back. That's almost twice as far away running. No and Tony told me that while. She was preparing for the show. She took her research seriously as well. Angela makes it to officer. She ends up transferring in even though she was previously enlisted. She's an officer now. So she is a sending the ranks and I really like I started scoping out and looking for black women especially who are officers in different branches of the military? I started looking for pilots. Black women pilots from over just because I wanted to surround myself with images of that I mean that's kind of the definition of why representation matters right if you can see it then you can imagine yourself doing it from a little girl thinking about a career standpoint and also as an actor me looking at all of these marines and Army soldiers and other women gave me ideas about hairstyles. One thing. That was really important to me and to our military advisor and everyone on set. Was THAT WHO. I wore my hair appropriate for a person in uniform. Sure I have really big curly hair. That is everywhere and it's hard to manage and I was really weighing. The you know the challenges that a lot of enlisted women and women servicewomen face when they're trying to figure out okay. How do we stick within the military ranks to be smooth it down we straighten it and you know just over a year ago the services approved braids and locks as approved styles? Those like oh. This would be a genius. Way To honor a lot of those women who probably were waiting to get to wear braids for years and years. So it's just a small way that yeah we were trying to honor the the reality of these these exact people now you also co host a podcast called Yo. Is this racist with Andrew T it sort of sounds? It's a it's a racism helpline people call in and leave you voicemail and ask is this racist or how should I feel about this What's been like to into doing this? Podcast from home. Yeah well I love doing things from home. I'm a lifelong musician too. So I always have studio setup so that part hasn't been hard. I do want to make sure people know that. We're not a real help. Line like we. We aren't primarily concerns. Should we love to have like a third perspective of another comedian writer? A person in entertainment usually a person of color but not always and we just have long discussions about the things people call in for so sometimes people call in with really serious stuff that we're like. I don't know if I'm the one qualified for you to talk to you when you end up asking each other. Did we help? This person has the right answer. We awesome did not sometimes. I'm just like you need a newspaper. What to do for you. I want to talk a little bit more about your comedy career in. I know that you were at second city when you lived in Chicago. You've also performed with your band. John Lang for its four. Lost Souls at music venues have. Are you feeling about the future of live comedy and live music right now? I mean I'm legitimately worried I'm hopeful but I'm I'm nervous you know. I spent a lot of years making my primary living as a live performing. Comedian AND MUSICIAN. I would trade. You know I'd go for a month on tour with a band then I'd come back and do six weeks of scripted. Sit DOWN COMEDY. Show in Rochester New York or something with the second city so it it was what got me out of waiting tables which is something that a lot of people can't say then live performing became their bread and butter. That is it's hard to do. And it was hard to maintain even then. I don't know how independent venues or going to stay open. I've been trying to support venues that I've had good memories at just. You know looking to see if they have a go fund me pager buying merchandise from them if they're selling t shirts or something. But I'm legitimately scared and I'm kind of scared of the you know the corporatization that's going to take over some of these small venues because if you're an INDIE ROCK CLUB IN ARLINGTON. And you suddenly can't open backup. Who's GonNa who's GonNa buy that space? What type of bands are they going to book? What type of content are they? GonNa put. Put up the preservation of the indie music and comedy spaces is one of the most important things that we have for allowing new art to flourish and in terms of acting. How do you feel about the idea of returning to a film set after all this and picking up where some of your productions have had to pause? I feel very lucky to be in the job that I'm in because even if people wanted to go back to work prematurely even if certain productions wanted to I am encouraged by the fact that this is this industry billions and billions of dollars and there are so many people that takes to make a film set and I keep joking. That being an actor on a film set is just twelve hours of someone touching your face so there is I have that sounds very an ideal right now right right right now. It's just like different strangers. Coming up putting a microphone on your collarbone. Someone adjusting your eyebrow. It's it's a Cova nightmare so I am emboldened by the fact that these very serious expensive productions are not going to rush back in because you know if someone gets sick. It's a very visible very visible industry. It's very litigious world. We're in. It seemed it would seem wild to me that that any production would go back prematurely and I don't think they'll do it purely if not for the people say definitely because there's too much money on the line. I try not to read people's quotes back to them from past interviews but I'm GonNa make an exception this time because one point of election. No No. So here's here's what it is in two thousand seventeen. You gave an interview to culture and you expressed some frustration at the time with the rules that you've been getting and you'd said it can be hard to find a place right now so. I think I just need to create that place myself. Do you feel like you're at a point in your career now where you've been able to carve out your own space. Yeah you know. What's interesting is that like? This role in space force was one of those perfect marriages of collaboration. There was a great pilot script. The script was so lovely that I- Cornelie told the casting director Allison Jones. After my first audition I was just like I'd just love the script. Even if I don't get gassed she was like cool story. I don't that's great but I I do feel like this is the start of that for me because Greg Daniels is such a great collaborator and so his door is so open to ideas about the character that between me and him and the Writers Steve. Like we have created this character together. And I feel like an active participant in shaping. Her this whole last season I felt like I was asked for my input and trusted when I disagreed about things and it was a really good way to to create it. So if that's if that's halfway to making my own stuff I feel like the next piece of it is right around the corner. Tawny newsome is a comedian. And one of the stars of Netflix's space force which is coming out later this week. Thank you so much. This was great. We've been checking in with a bunch of different COMEDIANS. On the take way including Samantha. B and Roy Wood Jr. Since the coronavirus outbreak started you can find all of those conversations online at the takeaway dot org slash joking from a distance. That's all for me on the takeaway. It has been such a pleasure filling in for Tanzania Vega all this month great muse. She'll be back in the hosting chair on Monday. I know I'll be listening. I hope you will too. And Amy Walter is tomorrow as usual. Our board operator. Debbie doctor was in the studio at WNYC for US alongside Vince Fairchild. Who was art director this week? Working from home was line producer. Jackie Martin and editor J cow it in the mornings. Alexandra not is our senior producer. Our producers are Ethan Obermann. Jose Lavar is meg dot in Jason to rescue. And Lydia mcmullen Laird Amber Hall and Patricia Jacob Our Politics Producers Paulie Aroon Goo is our digital editor. Katharina Barton is our intern. And David Gable is our executive assistant. Lee Hill is our executive producer. And I'm Shumita Basu. You can find me on twitter at shoebox zoo. That's S. H. B. A. Asu You also find my contact information there and that's all for now. I'll be listener like you next week and always be well. This is the takeaway

Julia Christina Amy Cooper senator Christian Cooper Fatigue writer Senator Leffler US Justice Department Central Park scientist Marcus San Jose California Netflix Dandruff assistant professor
#449 - Apple gets hacked, & the vanishing of Jon Prosser

The CultCast - Cult of Mac

52:00 min | 10 months ago

#449 - Apple gets hacked, & the vanishing of Jon Prosser

"Hello Mac. PC and I'm headed to the future. The future, really yes MAC throughout human history PC's have had to deal with freezing crashing error. Messages I need to know. If we're ever going to work the way we should, so I'm going to the year twenty one fifty. Wow, that's amazing. We'll good luck. I hope it works. Greetings. I'm a MAC PC. Future PC have they figured out of fix our issues are they figured out how to make a stable and his hassle-free as AMAC. Future Pros. That inches that question. Welcome to? Best thirty plus out conversation. You're going to hear all week long. I'm your host during the today. His parole officer says if he keeps up with his recent recreational activities. He's definitely going back to slam. Pack. is here on a very cloudy Smoky Room? We enter entertaining. No the rug. His new single sil- Nahra from Saigon has reached number twenty. Three on spotify is top Asmar tracks the managing editor of Gold Mac Louis WALLOPS. Can have to that right now. Put It on repeat in the background. We have a relaxing day. Do you get the Joe Louis Cya from? Saigon. See. I don't know how do. I don't know who gave me that joke. By the way it wasn't. It wasn't an original somebody on twitter. Somebody on, twitter gave it to me, but it was a long time ago, so why? Plagiarism appropriate. For my own humor chest and I'm going to tell people that I created the joke all right, so we're doing a little experiment this week I. Don't know if this is GonNa work. If you're watching this on youtube then, thank God. It actually worked. We're we're trying to video, but as you would imagine, it's a lot more challenging than we thought it was going to be. An almost no preparation for this. Maybe maybe forty I missed our yesterday. And now we're trying to do it, and it's Kinda working so hopefully everything works out, and if you see it on, Youtube will then Hallelujah it worked, and if not, then we'll keep trying to troubleshoot it, but we're tinkering. We're taking. I'm going to try and see if we can get some kind of video element ready for the show or working for the show, and if not, we'll just do audio only in abandon all hope, but we've got a Lotta stuff talk about this week. Well a lot, maybe exaggeration. A little bit exaggeration. When you say a lot, you mean absolutely nothing. We've got some stuff talk about this week and I think it's relatively interesting, so we'll see how this goes. We're GONNA talk about Apple's twitter account getting hacked. The initially it wasn't just apple. Of course it was a huge hack on twitter that affected everyone's account including apple, and this was like worldwide news yesterday. It's really fascinating. What happened, so we'll talk about that Lewis is going to tell us about what's new in apple news and try to convince us that people care about apple news still. Is that I realize that was the brief I thought it'd be party. Could be part of the spill. The right man for the job. Because it feels like it's dying, doesn't it? It feels like it's dying. Head feels like it's a Zombie living on. Yeah, so it feels like it's dying exactly. Well I guess to say that it's dying is to imply it was ever alive. It exists. They have one hundred eighty million monthly users, don't they? Come in two thousand five? Twenty five million was through the number they. Last week that's not paying though because that's only half the cul de sac kids. They've got to have goals to reach for the stars. I. It's it's going to be tough to get up to those cult. AMAC levels, but that's why apple I heard this going to be trying to hire you on as an advisor to figure out how to really make things run smoothly, absolutely. Yeah, so let's see here so you're gonNA. Be Talking about all of that and I lost. My show notes here. Who Else? What else do we have? No, that's my spotify page here we go. Wow, that's fast. Oh! Yeah, well I've got like eighteen windows open right now, trying to figure out what the heck is going on, so I have I have a feeling that's going to be happening episode and we have time we'll touch upon an apple glass developments and some more controversy around the last story, because this is probably one of my personal favorite stories of the week, it was mark Gherman reaction to the to the story out of the blue. So we'll touch upon that before we dive into all the fun. Let me say thank you to squarespace for supporting this episode. Should I bring up square spaces website? Let's let's let's just go to squarespace DOT COM. Watch this. Bum Squarespace.com. Ford Slash cast if you need a website, if you a business if you're a student and you want to build a website that shows just how creative just how skilled you are building websites, this is where you need to. Head is where I have my personal websites, and they're not giving me squarespace I use it because it's just so gosh. Darn easy to build website, you can have one up within mere moments, and it's simple. If you want to just have something up quick, you can do that if you want to. Dive in dive real in deep and customize all the different blocks, you can move everything all over the place and. And you can add any kind of element that you could think of image galleries videos social media squarespace. Has This no code system that you can go in and simply drag drop move everything around me the website look uniquely yours. Your website is going to look slick. It's GonNa. Look Sleek, and it's going to impress all the recruiters out there. They're all going to be paying down your door. New customers come in throwing money at you. Just imagine I wish I had a gift that could show all the dollars. They're going to be raining down on your parade head over to squarespace dot com forward slash cassie. GET STARTED WITH A. Free Seven Day trial, and or excuse me free two week trial and website. If you like what you have your trial, you can use code. Coke cast at checkout to get ten percent off your first order at squarespace.com. Ford Slash cast in the offer code to us is cold cast. Look at that transition. Booth just GonNa say just take a look at us. Just just take a look at us. I'm sure you'll all agree. There might be questions about the content itself accuracy. Sure is it interesting sometimes, but is there a better look group of people reporting on the Apple News each week now that's looking podcast around man. Best looking apple podcasters in the ecosystem I'm sure you'll agree. Don't even come at me with. Gruber. Gruber Kerman. They're far below in the list far below in my humble opinion, okay. Let's let's dive right in here, so we start with this hacker story since this was like worldwide news yesterday and affected apple, but also affected. Everyone else who had a blue check mark. On twitter yesterday and I think this is actually an unbelievable development I know it's a text story, but it's also more than tech story because we'll touch on wine just a moment, but if you're unfamiliar with what happened. So I'm going to dive right into the story. Apple is one of the many companies and their people who had their twitter accounts hijacked on Wednesday. A hacker found a way to post. What seems to be any account indicating that it's twitter itself that had been hacked so not apple's own individual accounts. All the posts pointed readers towards a bitcoin scam. We said we're giving back to the community. We support Bitcoin and we believe you should too all. Bitcoin is set to our address. All bitcoin center address below will be sent back to you doubled. It affected a wide variety of people including. Vice President Joe. Biden, Bill Gates Warren Buffett Jeff, Bezos Kanye, west, apple and more. What's crazy is is I heard that when Joe Biden heard that if you would. Donate Bitcoin, and it would be doubled. He was asking people on his team how he could send Bitcoin to himself Louis. Yeah okay. I thought that was a good joke that. Implied that he looked at twitter. I find or no. Okay. Let's see here. Apparently to prevent malicious posts further militias post twitter has blocked many accounts from posting. This is over now. They reinstated. Everyone's account. Unconfirmed reports indicate that this covers every verified account on the social media networking service. It's a very appropriate way to say that Lewis I have to say so. It's all over now but. This bitcoin scam ended up on Apple's account. They ended up locking out all the blue checkmark. Seven was wondering what was going on, but the crazy part is this. What else do these hackers get? They could. Probably it seems access to people's DM's. They could probably read all their GM's maybe even download their conversations or something and one of the things that I was thinking about which I think. Think is really crazy. Is How much of a national security risk this could have been these? How come yell trump? His account wasn't a tax. It's a good question. I heard that his account had additional security measures around it. That's what I heard though I'm not sure if that's true, but if it did that would make sense right because you don't want someone hijacking his account and tweeting. We've declared nuclear war on China missiles are currently in the air which they could have done from any of these accounts that they controlled and imagine if they had tweeted something like that from all these different high profile accounts, and maybe even controlled lower uses accounts. Start retweeting this information. You can see how devastating. This could be for not just the US, but for the entire world this could have created some kind of retaliatory situation where another country thinks were attacking them. Because all these media outlets are reporting on it and nothing is actually happening and I was thinking. Is it just me or does this seem like? Some kind of severe national security threats thoughts Lewis Leander. Well jumping once Y-? I thought leander. Was GonNA start. View. How polite both? I mean you think about this is like You know Skynet right the terminator situation. I it's it's kind of scary. What you just said is. Oh you know all these news organizations that report because that's exactly what happened like God. Trump tweeted this. It'd be the headline on the New York Times in about five minutes right? Yeah, because it doesn't matter if it's true or anything else, it matters if somebody tweeted her, says it so yeah, that's a little bit frightening and. Analogy what happened sky, funny robots took over. That was the exact same. That was the exact same analogy that I thought of us the exact same one all of a sudden. This whole network becomes active and just start doing things on its own. You know what I'm just something happens and then boom in next everything's over. I mean I don't know to me. It just seemed like. To think about all the I mean think about how central twitter is to the the sort of. Flow of information and news in our society right now. It's Kinda crazy that they didn't have something in place to stop this from happening. I mean I e. the report that I was reading is saying that they think that an employee gave these hackers access to this tool well. How is it even possible that some dumb ass? Employees twitter has access to these things I mean. That's it even even that you know okay well. They're getting the bottom of it. We'll heads pretty frightening. Right pretty frightening. How? Apparently easy, it was for this to happen. You're absolutely right I. mean you know actually I mean? If trump would have tweeted that I, think people would have just. Said always joking, but I mean who knows I mean. It's a little bit. It's a little bit weird that it would be that insecure. That's a good point and that'd be like Apple. You know like how Apple Con, unlock your iphone four you, you know because the the encryption is end to end. Apple doesn't keep the keys I mean that's how that system should be. Shouldn't it should be like silo D- The only person that access to that person's tweets is that person? Yes certainly not you know some. Twenty three year old kid out just out of college. WHO's You know working his first job at twitter and they'd be funny. That's wires. Funny. If I took a trail of trump's accounted to the impending nuclear war. Reading about this, it reminded me that if you years ago, somebody at twitter deleted trump's. Account. I forgot about that. It's like. Come on gals. Maybe that's actually why. They why. They weren't able to take over his account. Maybe they did. Put in place some things, but like honestly shouldn't everybody have that I mean? They make the scammers do no. I heard one hundred thousand, and so some of that, too. There was a there was a link yesterday that you could see that particular bitcoin account like thermostat like in the old days for. Three more donations and we'll hit one hundred thousand. was actually kind of pathetic though, wasn't it? You know it wasn't given the number of accounts. They hats and high profile they were. You know they didn't really make that much money. Those a lot of complaints about what a pathetic hack it was mean. If you managed to hack in. Can you come up with better than this? It's so transparently fake and stupid, right? That's what I was thinking to who actually would. It doesn't mean, are you? Are you kidding me? And you know Inheritance. Send me some money. Kind, of thing, you know, it's just wasn't a smart. Wait a second. You gotTA email from a Nigerian prince two. Ex Yeah you know the one about the the gold mine where they have. All the money was being held and especially. In that to. QUIT! I sent that guy like thousand dollars via paypal, but with strangers he completely stopped replying to me, and he said that he was GonNa Reimburse me a hundred thousand after that, yeah, well still waiting to get my email back from him. I'm starting to think that maybe. It might be a scam. Whole scam is and I think I mentioned this before. Is They specifically? They specifically were in a way. Where it's, it's it's written in such a way. Where if you respond to it? They're trying to lure N. people who maybe aren't the most smart people to Moron filter. Actually it's a reverse moron filter can. They can tease more money out of those people so they right away. Where if you reply? They know they're dealing with the more. So it's like Oh. This guy replied to my email where all the punctuation is in the middle of words, and they're to send me this money will. Clearly this person might be we'll. Let. You know that maybe that's that's a really good point. Maybe this stuff is targeted right. You know like it's actually very cleverly targeted so that the kind of busy would send money, but then again bitcoin I mean like you know who has bitcoin accounts I. Well, so do I and completely I feel like everyone invested six grand at the at the height, the HYPOC. Fervor. And it's crashed and it was like look is coming back. I think it's not worth one hundred sixty dollars, but it like. A thirty or so they me and my brother, both did drunk, Christmas or something we will get some bitcoin. Three granted I put in three grand. It wasn't a good listen. I'm hoping that one day it'll come back. I finally just got out of bitcoin. Actually I just as a test rather dive in with six grand I was thinking I'm looking to test this out so I. I invested one hundred dollars and shortly thereafter it plummeted to like thirty dollars in value I'd probably invested right when you did actually and it two years, it took probably two years to get back to my original up I think. Think it's so volatile, it moves around so fast you you're literally have to check it every day, and even even multiple times a day because it moves so volatility or so so dramatically every single day, but eventually got it got back up to like ninety two dollars, and I was like. Yeah, this is this. Is it I'm not I'm not wondering longer well. You do the whole better than most. Yeah I, mean I only lost eight bucks. Yeah, he did all of us I. Only Lost Ted or eight percent of my investment, instead of one hundred percent or an eighty percent. I guess from my thinking. I was like I really want twitter to be an independent company. I think they should be able to do their own thing. But when I see stories like this and twitter is such a major platform for American political speech, and for politicians and stuff, and if their accounts are vulnerable that that moves it from. This is just a communications platform this is. Is something that we all use to speak to each other to? This is a serious national security risk. Does the government need to get involved in this? In some way? I don't know I don't know, but it does seem crazy that some low level employees or employees at twitter can help packers, which has the story as it is right now, help packers break in and have an. Came say have a high level account where they can basically just do whatever they want over twitter. It seems crazy. I mean. Everybody's working from home drinking. You Know Day you know Yeah, sure that sounds cool. You give you ten. Thousand argued tool, sure they. Promised Him some money. Don't you think that's what as what I read? Is that Yeah, they? They gave the person some money or Paid them to do that, so yeah, we're hitter. I say they I saw a bunch of people. Send that still looked at their accounts. You Know Blue folks I heard that to. Hurt some of Amar but I heard. Most of them are reinstated. Yeah, yeah I don't know I I would know because I don't have a blue checkmark and. I. Don't know how you get one. Neither do you Katie which is? Killian House one. Howdy Killian get one. Lewis. That he knows get to know somebody. You've got to nose grease. Typical right like so trustworthy twitter Oh. Fantastic open platform, and it's just all about freedom of speech and. Well we I got I got content years and years ago by twitter employees. Saying Hey, I can Blue Checkmark oh. Do you guys if you like? And what? I I know he was offering to do and I I was like I was just bad. I don't think. I was really noncommittal about it anyway. Now I'm kicking myself. What you said you said. He was going to get us all see I. Don't know why it didn't follow through company. said. Yes, sure go ahead, but then nothing came came of. Can see the fourth email. Leandra, did you still want? Are you sure you didn't want to do this? You know fourteen. Precisely others, but you blew it I would do literally anything for a blue checkmark. I mean. Anything literally. Behind you well, we can make a discussion. We can talk about details you talking about this carry. All the way, we. Be Talking about this guy. Right here got their. Hands on. Let's make a deal twitter. Let's make a deal Jack Dorsey. The deal. Jack Dorsey would try to strike that. That's probably one delay would make. Okay so yeah. That that tweet yesterday that was the first tweet from the at Apple. Right? Good Point. Yeah, the first one ever. 'cause apple. Apple Twitter Account, but they've. Never used it. That was the very first one. Larry. Okay. Let's move on. Let's see here where my notes. Let's go back to my notes right Lewis I'm sending them back your way, and we're GONNA. Talk about there was a an update t apple news and you're going to tell us well. What's new and apple? News and Maybe why anyone will actually carry about this about these states? Actually, this looks pretty cool, so I'm. Actually. pooh-pooh and no poo poo sorry. Go ahead. Apple released I O. S., thirteen dot, six Wednesday, and You know great whatever we knew it was going to bring Audio versions of Apple, news plus stories. You know the the paid version of its news aggregation service, but an apple also rolled out A. Daily audio show called Apple News today. On the free version apple news APP and it's. Especially seven minute podcast that anybody who has an apple device or you know it's right there available, in the Audio Tab and you know it's. It's very very similar to things like the New York Times daily, or whatever and if even use like Alexa right, you say Alexa. What's my daily briefing right? It'll did tell you whatever so or Siri whatever although this is a A. Whatever. Woods whatever. It's all the appropriate for this story though. It so I don't know if you guys listen to it. No, no, I haven't either okay. Join the I. I've I've listened to. Both. And It's it's a you know exactly what you'd expect. Right? It's it's a seven minute thing it's. Kind of sounds like a cross between our and like. If you ever run an airplane, we had those audio channels. He actually stumbled across the Disney channel or something like that. And you hear these really upbeat chipper people talking about things. They do a quick on listenable. Because it's so, it's just it's. It's an odd mix of it's. It's not. Super Boring like NPR. It's kind of up with people but it's also you know I, it's it's really. Like they have to hosts Shumita. Basu and Duarte Geraldino and Honestly, they could be like I right I mean. There's there's it's so processed and. Just kind of smooth inert. And it almost sounds like you've heard those things where they have like a robot. Creating a persona almost sounds like that. It's like really kind of Chipper, and it's like the sort of you know the kind of like. You know energetic Yeah, that kind of stuff here and there. And it's all like delivery with little ambient music in the background. I mean it's. It's definitely not my style. Okay, it's not I don't I don't enjoy that aesthetic of like. Everything's very smooth then. But you know it. It's also the other thing about it is. It's pretty metamucil. Don't stop talking about Apple News plus you know it's been basically a daily ad for Apple. News plus they talk about. The the service, they they they they very good job of saying okay. Here's what we're GONNA. Talk about today. It's this this story or these two or three stories on this one topic and they you know very clear about citing their sources and quoting from the things and. You know it's okay. It's you know if you want a little seven-minute daily podcast, you know you can play it in car play. You can play it on your phone. You can play wherever I think even added to the latest version of Mac os I download that yet, but Anyway, you looked a bit silly segment on there. She goes I'm I'm going to call this segment? Yep, that sounds about right I mean we'll see if they do that again tomorrow, right? Yep that's about right. That's a real bad segment, damn! It's just. It's Kinda to me. It's a weird mix of like cicely chipper delivery and sort of hand-wringing about really serious stories, and it's really truly. Did a lot of solemn more. Dramatic audio swells, and that kind of thing so I. I don't know you know day too right i. mean it's I. Don't want to art or not. Then I mean it sounded very professional, actually the probably spending hours and hours getting this altogether. There's not A. You know it's not in Beta they it's. It's fully formed synthetic newscaster very perfect, very. Just very. It sounds like NPR point. Oh, yeah. Obviously. It sounds like a younger npr you know like An. AMBULANT NPR delivery that just put you right to sleep. This show doesn't have to possess that this show, has it. Doesn't. It doesn't have are rough edges. Rough edges. Diplomatic Way to put it very. Very frayed frayed edges for sure the other thing. The other thing that they added like I mentioned the they also now if you're news plus subscriber, which I don't know, I was for a while, but I wasn't using it so I quit ten bucks a month. If you pay in that and you're getting access all the really good, you know high quality stuff. You can get. They have I think. They said they're gonNA. Have Twenty a week of these. Audio stories that they call them and and it's. It's basically a voice actor reading magazine Stories, you know magazine stories from fanfare. Essence wired things like that and it's A. Of Weird I mean I I almost figured they would have the actual journalists that wrote him doing it, but no, it's it's voice actors, so it's like an audio book right so if you want like an audio book of a seventeen minute news story read out to you five. That's Hilarious, because remember when we had prosser on, and he was saying he got his start with Chris Pirillo and he got bored working for Chris. Pirillo because Chris. Parrilla basically did the content that you're just talking about. He would just sit there and read articles to people while live streaming, and he's like this is like the most content of ever seen in my life, and now apple's literally doing it. Yeah I. Mean You know this? This is separate from that Apple News today thing I mean to two completely different things right. I mean those those Apple News. Plus audio stories are. Very very much like audio books Thing that they added yesterday was local news, so you can site and. They did this was of crazy? Oh, yeah, and five five different places San Francisco. The Bay Area I'm sorry. That's just should be one Houston Los. Angeles and New York. And I went and tapped I still have from using the Apple News App I. Still Get places where I can't get where I wanna be i. in fact I I made a mistake of tapping. You know like it has all these previews of those Apple News plus audio stories I made the mistake tap in one of those and. I couldn't get back to the the free version is just a constant like you. Do you want to subscribe to check it out? So you. Just use your. Face ID to pay God I don't want to. Go Sir, please please don't WanNa pay really need someone to pay. Yeah, like I. I'd love to conversion on it, but so I did finally I shut down the APP and I made my way back in there and I. I finally found a little button. The taste of the local news thing for San Francisco. Do you want to follow this channel? Yes okay. Okay fine, so I now I am following the local news for San Francisco, and I go to it and it stories from San Francisco Chronicle and SF gate, and You know some other stuff down a page I don't even know what it was, but it mostly. That's mostly what it was. And I tapped him one of those headlines for the chronicle and says. Sorry this is only available to us plus okay useless to me. This whole thing is useless to me. So that's when you have comcast man. You're looking through or apple. TV does US I. Guess to and you're looking through content and it's like. Would you like to watch this movie, so you click on it and it's like Oh, you need subscription to that. Show it to me I showed. that. It's available to buy tunes. I I really hate that I wish there was a mode that you could turn on so only showed you content that you could watch. Per The subscriptions that you already have or things that you ready, I don't want to be advertised constantly on my Dash, you know. Absolutely couldn't agree more. Okay, amen, let's see here before we move on I. WanNa give a very hardy. Thank you to linked in for supporting this episode. Let me tell you something. Small businesses. They have unique needs. And despite the current uncertainty, one thing remains unchanged. It's important. Have the right people on your team. Look at this crack team. Look at content. We're able to produce because we got the right people on the right seats on the bus. You think we'd be making content like this of Aleksey. Heath was here. Get outta here when your businesses ready to make that next higher lincoln jobs can help by matching your role with qualified candidates so that you can find the right person quickly. Lincoln the most active community of professionals with more than six hundred ninety million members worldwide can. Can you even count that high? No way that's not even possible Lincoln jobs screens candidates with hard and soft skills. You're looking for and put your job posts in front of qualified members every day that it's seen by the right people looking for jobs like yours. That's how linked in jobs can help you hire the right person faster. It's just a mega pool of extremely talented active people people who are on Lincoln. They're looking to network. They're look into swing. They're looking for some of that bullying and if you need. It's just. It's just a chirp phrase leader. Go let us go with that sometimes. Say break. I'M GONNA. Say whatever you give me. I don't care if it makes sense or not, and that's that's the way I roll swing. We're. If you're ready to get in front of the right candidates linked in is where you need to be. When Your Business You know what I'm doing a great job here at Leander, I'm really sell the service I believe in the service and I. They're going to be thrilled. When Your Business is ready to make that next tire, find the right person with Lincoln jobs you could pay what you want and get the first fifty dollars off. Just visit linked in dot com slash cast that's linked dot com slash cassie. Get fifty dollars off your first job post terms and conditions do apply. Did you say? Did you see the new feature where you can tell people how to pronounce your name I did see that that's pretty handy. Something that I would probably use all the time. Yeah I. Don't Know If. Well undermining to use it. Yeah, I need people. Mess up your your name winter! Time I guess Leandra ankeny especially genie's the worst. That's. County. Yeah, because Leila poor still to this day. 'cause you leander Cahaney. He needs. A strong H in they're not sure. Why does that? But that's neither here, nor there okay, let's. Let's talk about some controversy and let's talk about some potential new apple. Hardware will probably wrap this story, but this has to do with apple glass. This has to do with the. And this has to do with John Browser by the way. Every time we anytime. We talked about Gherman. I've learned that his little speiser out there. Sending him the little clips. Hey, did you hear that gas talked about you and so he'll tune in so mark. How's it going? I know what you're little. When you're little, people sent you this clip, but here we go, so apple's big supplier is already making trial lenses. FRAPP glass Foxconn has reportedly started trial production. On polarize semi transparent lenses that could be used for apple glass according to the information. Do I story somewhere I sure do? G's Sh you guys. I I'm telling you. Let's see here. The Friday. Payroll report says the lenses are between one and two years away from entering mass production. The information says this timeframe fits apple's acquisition of ACOPIA. Founded in two thousand. A Konia originally pursued advances in holographic data storage, and it pivoted to augmented reality headsets at the time that the company was acquired by Apple. They had about two hundred patents related to whole graphic systems and materials. Okay! Now here's where it starts to get a little bit more interesting, okay? In May. Apple leaker. John released a video with alleged details about the apple glass project prosser claim the glasses will start at four hundred ninety nine dollars plus charge for prescription lenses, if needed, they will not feature a front facing camera, but will come with a sense of scanning process, said the glasses will display information inside both lenses that work via gesture controls. And he said, and this is where things got real spicy. He said that apple was planning a Steve Jobs heritage edition modeled after the founders co after Apple co-founder around John Lennon style spectacles. He gave us that little scoop on an episode of Castle when we had him on I. Don't know. Four five six weeks ago. And I think he was just trying to give us something like. I don't know I'm not saying that. I don't think he was saying that. This is definitely something that apple's doing I think he was saying I've heard. This is something that Apple's working on. It could be a project that will never see the light of day. It could be something that they're prototyping, and we have no idea and probably will never know unless they actually release it. But at the time Mark Gherman came out, and all this story is totally bogus. You can't believe this story this this for this story is pure fiction. I was like okay, we'll see what happens. You know I'm not married either one of these. Any one of these sides. If it happens great, if not, that's fine. We were just reporting what John Prosser reported, but my favorite part about the story is just I. Think it was yesterday. What's the day today? Loose? Quick? Hey, how? Hers Day July Sixteen guests. This was two days ago, so so this the store that I just read from quarterback came out I, think on the tenth, and then randomly out of nowhere. On the fourteenth. Mark Gherman comes out and says PSA reminder that apple glass leak. It was complete fiction. From the glass name down to the Steve Jobs haired addition no chance apple uses the name of that failed product for their own album glasses. And then all his minions in hair all. Doing a circular back PAT party. and. The responses are really funny. I don't get it. What does he mean? Say No chance. Apple is the name of a failed product for their own AL glasses I think to depose Google Glass. GOTCHA SEE I. Yes so. So I just thought it was entertaining that that mark just can't let this go. He had to come out of nowhere. In fact, one of the one of the replies in here I. Don't know if I can find. It was like. Why are you reporting about this now? In the midst of or out of the blue? You decide that you're gonNA. Come back and start reporting on this and marked. Didn't say thought it was really interesting that that mark felt compelled to come back clapback about this out of the blue. It's still bug in the fact that we reported on. This is still bugging him. He just can't handle. It was interesting. This whole time. What information story I mean wonder that come out on the tenth I think. So. There's a four days later I don't know. Maybe you know. He hadn't got around to scrolling through. Maybe. That's what I was thinking. Maybe he was just replying that story, but sake. The information to it's kind of weird, too. I mean like this. This thing is supposed to be beyond prototype, but the production line is one or two years. What will you know physical one one is like a huge window is now. That's not very precise at all, but If. It up, I mean production brand doesn't take long. If it's beyond. then. For production, and then getting ready for production I mean like I know it takes. A couple of years get some production lines would often do it in parallel so while they're working on the prototypes know they're going to be serious about producing this thing they're also working on. The production as well you know so they can bring it. In, so they don't. They don't do it. You know one step after another generally stettinius -ly the trying you know like You know to make it that to maximize time so anyway. I don't know that that struck me as we couldn't that be what's happening is they're starting to try to ramp up their production line at the same time working prototypes and trying to figure out how this? Yet but. We're giving them a couple years to do that kind of like a long time. That does seem like a long time. Well, you would know leander caney having written the entire book about this exact same thing absolutely. But maybe the trick it, you know, maybe this is maybe this is exactly right. Maybe the trick produce you know. Maybe it's. Working out all the kinks in the you know in the production line, you know the the. A ton of work, you know the I think on behind. The scenes is unappreciated by difficult by tricky. To Do to get rights. That, you know the rim of wasn't there? It was like January right launch next year early next year. Well, it depends on who you listen to I. Mean in this story recording Mark Gherman, saying that they're going to arrive by twenty, twenty three, which would fall in line I ended up with the information story. Right where they're going to be full years away. Maybe they're just at the beginning of trying to get. The production line ramped up I. Don't know I thought. The reaction was funny I. was like it is it? Is it amusing to me that this story makes him so mad because it doesn't make makes him so mad. What the person respond to it? No, so what a great segue leader! Purpose I. Assume Okay. I was going to say no. I was actually looking through this whole thread to see if prosser was in here and he's not, and that was the other thing that I wanted to bring up. Is the disappearance of John Prosser now this is something that we've talked about before, but John Prosser has completely disappeared from from public life like he just has completely. Well. He is not tweeting anymore. He is not. He's not well. He tweets occasionally I. Guess, but his his youtube page I'm trying to speak and pull this up at the same time, but his youtube page. They're not putting out videos anymore. The last one they did, it was the ar glasses, and then that was it, and he put out an episode of his podcast recently about. A month ago, but other than that he's completely disappeared. He's completely disappeared. Now. You might be thinking well dude. Why don't you just reach out and ask him? What's going on right? Because we had him on the show, but I've reached out to him. He's ghosted me to not replying to any of my tweets at all anymore so I don't know what's going on with John. I'm actually a little worried about the guy. 'cause I really liked him. He seems like a really upstanding guy, really nice person, and he's gotten incredible personal story and I kind of wonder if maybe apple got to him. Him You know he did something apple reached out, and he's getting in trouble with Apple's legal team. We know that they were after him then. We know that they were doing an investigation by after them I mean they were doing an investigation trying to figure out who his sources were. Maybe they approached him and asked him to stop doing what he was doing, but he tweet recently where someone asked him if he was coming back, and he said yes, eventually so I have no idea what's going on, but John Foster has completely disappeared in. It's so bizarre because channel was growing so rapidly his. Attention he was you know. He ducked out on top in the, and he was just getting all that attention craved and. Obscurity for all those years, no one wants his videos all of a sudden. You know they they were right. He was again. We did a profile on him. Other people did stories on him. He was invited all these different podcasts. Yeah. I'm no accused at the height of his His fireman influence. Yeah, exactly he was getting a lot of hate does well I mean there's a lot of Criticism own of because like online. It's already personal and. Rude and nasty. That's kind of what I think happened. I think that may be on the nastiness. Just got to him, and he was like yeah I'm not GonNa do this right now or maybe? Apple got one of his sources or something and so. I said as his US right? Yeah, yeah, he did say that, but you know with John You can never tell when he's being serious and when he's just making a joke so when he said that I don't know if he was actually. I! I don't know if he was being serious or if he was just saying that to be funny or something. But Yeah He. Joke, doesn't it not? I don't know like I didn't get it. I didn't get it either I. didn't either I hate to admit that, but yeah. I don't know if he was. Fun then. You can still there yeah, although. Cute awhile so it might have been. I'll give you. That's my point because basketball is not an right, so he's not. Going to see an ball season. Normally see on the sidelines of the Warriors Games. Yeah well, he's something's happened soon. Maybe we'll see him again. Well, that's my point, maybe maybe Tim. Cook found out what he was doing with John Prosser. What I'm saying. and. He's. Down in the apple HQ torture Dungeon. It is strange that John Prosser has almost completely disappeared from Internet after having been so prolific and having so many. Scoops and people constantly criticized him for not being accurate, but. According to the website, apple track in fact. Let me see if I can just pull this apple track dot org, I think. Hit a great record. Yeah, he had a pretty good record. Yeah, here, it is so let's see. Can I bring this up so according to apple track which they had a great idea to start tracking people's. Actual scoop records. They rate him pretty highly. He's he's I. Think he was right below. He just dropped. He just dropped yesterday. He was right below mark, Gherman and now he is a little bit lower. Paper Roll Nice Nice, but even seventy eight percent. That's pretty good, so it's not like he's out there reporting stuff. That doesn't happen all the time you know he. He's getting most of the stuff right now. He doesn't have very many actual scoops. Gherman has a lot more scoops according to apple track. Yeah John Has Nineteen and Mark Gherman has three Oh five. It's a very great pondering picture, right? It's like the. Oldest two records remarks you know. Years of. Like really solid. Track record. Yeah exactly John Hasn't been doing it very long. He has had some really good scoops sell my point. Being as people constantly try to write John off as just being a fraud. He's not a fraud. He's definitely not a fraud. He's had some great scoops. He just is he hasn't had longevity like like Gherman has but any case. I hope he's doing well John. If you're listening hope, you're doing well, you're welcome back on the show anytime. We could talk about what's going on. We can not talk about what's going on. We can just be pals and just talk about technology, and I hope that you're not locked in Tim Cook's. Revenge Dungeon right now, being whipped and tortured for all your. Your Crimes Against Apple. I think that's it. I think we should go ahead and wrap it up there. What do you guys think? Okay well. Hopefully this video experiment was pleasurable for you guys. Hopefully it's actually on youtube. All Seattle Stop the recording. How good it? Actually it is probably end up doing more stuff like this in the future. We're trying to work it out. We're trying to work it out what trying to see how it goes, but that is all the cast we have for you guys this week. If you want to come, reach out onto at Air Fund your F- win leaders at Elkin. Lewis's at Louis walls this the the best thirty plus minute conversation here. All week long new episodes the cast come out every Thursday, the government for listening and we'll see you guys. Next time. Jose Luis, little UNCANNY. I'm used to not see and you. Will See me do it. Yeah, maybe I should put like A. Like a whole cast extra. that. You don't have to see me. Rattle off down hole and. Yeah we need to have some kind of like hero commits a picture of audio. With his shrill with muscle likes clearly oil. Focus, on my face onto it and. I know that sounds weird sounds a good plan. I know that seems like a weird. Give to go see by thought that that might be. Fabio? She took a tower. The stars of these open us tourist and in Beverly Hills and So on the street and say yelling at him in front, he ran away. Jogging Run away from women all the time. Imagine being Badio. Everywhere you go, it's like people just want to grab your packs and shake him around. They the goose. Goose Agos Yeah Leander. We hit on a goose. We've talked about this story before. Do you remember when he was on the roller coaster and? and. The fates collided and he got hit in the face with that goose. My. Stroke right now. You guys don't remember this. Phobia was on a roller coaster. I don't remember where and I think he was on his way down, and as he was on his way down a frigging goose, or duck, was crossing paths with his face, and literally exploded on fabulous face, and he was covered with blood and feathers. Well, it's. You gotta go look this up. I was GONNA. Look it up right now because it's one of mankind's greatest epochs. Oh goodness roller coaster. Popular Roller Coaster. I, don't you? Have video of it. Ninety nine hundred five year warns of Roller Coasters Dangers. Okay they're gonNA pull this up. This is this for the after show here. What's the story called for? Fabio warns of Roller Coaster. This is a youtube video. I can't access after, but there's. All kinds of videos from March thirty, nine, thousand, nine, five gets hit by goose, writing something on. Youtube video. I need a regular story a lot. You know what? It's been twenty years since Bobbio. Kill the goose with his face. Really. Who those we'd women with him. Oh my gosh. Yeah! I think they were just fellow writers. In these Togo. That's a good point promptly outfits. Girlfriends his Fabio's girlfriends squad. They just with right everywhere he goes. Look look a happy. That girl is who's sitting to his left. She's so jubilant he's being. That goose with his face. Actually. Actually have videos goose? Just the bloody aftermath asks to bad yeah. I don't think so, this is. Let's see what what year was this? This happened. Yes, this is before the era of. Of people carrying cell phones with them everywhere. In Georgia. Isn't it? Says Williamsburg. Virginia. Okay Wow. Yeah. Let, be We go and I. Mean since Disneyland is reopened now. Maybe you're around there and reenact this. Over needs goose. A camera. Wig. Pack. You've never seen someone going to roller coaster. Come back with a blood soaked face. Someone's coming, so it's not like you're going to immediately sued. Deduce what happened and say Oh, he hit a goose. I mean my I guess would be like. Oh we had a nose. Bleed or something right I mean cerebral hemorrhage. It's a Gillian that that goose beaked in like kill him. You know get laws in his face, and it's a little bizarre. How unfazed his his friends are! You know? Yeah, look. The lady behind him has blood splattered all over his face, but he. Does face that is the expression of a man who just got hit in the face by Goose That's the exact same facial expression. I would be making. You can see as a giant wealth on his face. On the right cheek, yes, right under his giant bruise that could've made him go blind. If that would've been an inch higher or a half inch higher, he could be blind he. He'd be wearing an eye patch today. The baller story though. How did you get your eye patch? Someone hit me in the face with goose. Well. If you look at the, there's a camera on the front of the Cherry comes in. They will fill no. Footage through that. We're GONNA find that video. Supressed but not today. It's called Apollo's chariot. That's why this giant publicity stunt Yeah, this is like the maiden voyage. Dressed up, and that's why they have the video camera. Is a publicity stunt. It's one of the most genius marketing moves in Mankato. Released the footage maybe. Probably, 'cause. He probably bit answered. embiid its head off right. He. He's screaming. Like a girl. Could barely hear. Chris Douger. Imagine that. Good, you know we got to let people know about this. No. This you must destroys a food forever. Remembered this good gun while it's one of the greatest stories of the last fifty years. So, how did you I mean? How could you not remember when a male model hit a and kill the goose with his face? Coaster. So Basel nods remember.

Apple twitter Youtube Lewis Leander Mark Gherman John Prosser Slash John Bitcoin New York Times squarespace US Saigon trump Joe Louis Louis WALLOPS spotify cul de sac Leandra ankeny
What Happens to Unsheltered People When the Pandemic Has Passed? 2020-05-11

The Takeaway

51:31 min | 1 year ago

What Happens to Unsheltered People When the Pandemic Has Passed? 2020-05-11

"I refuse to beat Numb. Refuse to View this as routine that this is a crime against G. for black Americans the shooting death of Ahmad rb and its aftermath at trauma upon trauma. Sad moment to Be Alive in this country yet. We we have bounceback. I'm meet the best sue and today on the takeaway for Monday may eleven we ask Cornel West for his take on this moment from Colbert. Nineteen to the twenty twenty presidential race plus a look back at the massive legacy of Little Richard. How his loss and the loss of Andre Hurrell and Betty right as well? This weekend are affecting the music world and you. It's the nearly impactful. I found myself prying about it today. Partly because of the law you know of our elder and people who had gone to to meet or who had in my life so much but first a national checking on efforts to protect people who are homeless from the Corona Virus The cove nineteen pandemic has four cities all across the US to try and address homelessness in a more comprehensive way. Some major cities including Philadelphia New Orleans and San Francisco are putting unsheltered people into hotels to keep them safe from the spread. We recently spoke to San Francisco. Mayor London breed about the challenges. Involved as this is the age of social distancing and I think that it's a lot more challenging not just for San Francisco but for anyone with a large homeless population so to expect us To all of a sudden opened up every hotel room and have the ability to take care of houses this group of people and things will get better is is not necessarily realistic. But the fixes cities are implementing including moving people are experiencing homelessness into hotels are largely temporary. So what happens when the Cova Nineteen pandemic has passed? Many advocates are hoping the scale of this crisis will force officials to put new policies in place that will make lasting change to keep unsheltered people safe and to reduce homelessness overall. Nan Roman joins us to talk about this. She's the president and CEO of the National Alliance to end homelessness. And Jared Bray is with US also. He's a freelance reporter in Philadelphia and Housing Correspondent for the nonprofit news organization. Next City Hain. An he jared. Hello thanks for having me jared. Can you start by giving us an overview of the scope of Cova nineteen effect on people who are experiencing homelessness nationwide? And where are we seeing the most significant impact? Well these folks are among the most vulnerable in any event and so with a public health. Emergency like the one we're facing now and The possibility of a disease that so communicable folks who don't have homes are at some of the greatest risk the main public directive to avoid spreading this disease to stay at home and so for people who don't have homes that's clearly impossible and you know please like. New York have experienced with the greatest outbreak so I think that the folks who were on housed there are seeing some of the worst two cities all over are trying to figure out how to deal with housing. People who haven't been house for a long time are now at a much greater risk of harm Nan. There has been some federal relief action to support states and cities who are having efforts to try and offer assistance to people who are currently experiencing homelessness. What kind of federal action have we seen so far? Well there's been considerable investment in helping communities to address homelessness during the the pandemic so congress provided four billion dollars in emergency solutions grant funding which is a flexible kind of Formula Funding. That goes to everyone in the country and that is going to provide a lot of assistance. What needs to be done really is twofold to get people into spaces that can form with the CDC guidance so that they have enough distance between each other and they're quarantined or isolate if they need to be and then also to address. What's going to happen during the economic recovery and those? Espn resources will help with that. There's also other federal money. Relief Fund and other programs that could provide assistance to homeless people during the pandemic. And when you say four billion dollars I mean give us a sense of whether that's that's a large amount of money for this or is that a drop in the bucket. Well we didn't estimate or we actually ask. University of Pennsylvania researcher and some colleagues to do an estimate of what it would cost just to reconfigure the shelter to conform to CDC guidance around these issues and they estimated it would cost eleven point five billion dollars to do the we got four billion of that We still are going to need additional resources and that isn't really even moving people long into housing. That's really just to reconfigure the current system Jared Whitman. Speaking on this show about how many cities have been moving people who are street homeless to hotels or community centers. Can you give us a sense of how this is working in a few different cities? Yeah you know. Most cities are like you mentioned trying to Lee's most cities that I've heard about are trying to find hotel rooms to individually house homeless people who either have been infected or at least exposed to the virus certain degree. There's also sort of questions around how to shelter people in emergency ways. That don't involve know Congress shelters. I think a lot of the typical homeless shelters we think of people are pretty close together and don't a lot of personal space and that's clearly become a problem During the pandemic in San Francisco and a lot of other cities in California local governments county governments in state government to a certain degree was trying to lease hotel rooms for this purpose and a couple of have talked about currently acquiring hotels. I know Missoula Montana recently. Just purchased a motel downtown that it's going to use for emergency housing for people who've been exposed or infected and then once the emergency is lifted. Hopefully if the emergency that relisted lifted they're gonNA plan to Redevelop Properties permanent affordable housing. So they're trying to sort of birds with one stone which is Housing question and the longer term affordable housing shortage which is which contributes to the homelessness problem in the first place we have been talking to a lot of jurisdictions that are trying to use the hotel motel strategy When concern we have is at very few unsheltered. People are being brought into shelter. Most of the people that are moving into the hotels and motels seemed to be coming out of shelters. That are trying to thin out to some degree. We also know that jurisdictions are saying telling us that they're having a difficult time staffing those hotels and motels a lot of organizations. Sheltering organizations have lost staff people. Either because they've become ill or because They're concerned about catching the virus or they have their children at home because they're not in school various different reasons and this is a challenging population that needs support. And it's hard to staff up basically on a dime but it's a very important strategy and places are starting to get better at it. And and jared what about rental assistance have made efforts to formalize rental relief Especially for people who are experiencing homelessness right now. I know that in Orange County Florida at the very sort of at the beginning of the pandemic they had opened up a local rental assistance program. It was so quickly overwhelmed with applicants that they had to shut down within just a few hours basically last week in Dallas. The same thing happened they. They opened up rental assistance program locally that people who had lost income because of the pandemic could apply for rental assistance and more mortgage assistance. And I think that lasted about thirty hours. And they had about ten times more applicants than they were able to actually serve. I live in Philadelphia. And they're opening their own rental assistance program this next week just a couple of days or so. We're going to what's going to happen with that. But a lot of cities are using the money to create rental systems programs. And then just seeing the the demand be much greater than they're ready to to me and what are is doing to keep who are living without permanent shelter safe in this moment besides finding physical shelter for them are they doing anything to provide hygiene or anything else. That's helpful to them in a moment like this. Some jurisdictions are really working with people who are unsheltered. Largely those in encampments not everyone. He's unsheltered lives in an encampment. A lot of people really live individually. You know either inattentive. Or they move around their groups of people living outside There are jurisdictions in California decision elsewhere. Where they're providing hygiene materials porta-pottys doing cleanups and so forth. But really we need to get these unsheltered into shelter at a minimum and eventually into in order to protect their health. People who are unsheltered have are very vulnerable in terms of their health. They're much more disabled and ill than people who are sheltered much less people who are in home so it's really imperative that we deal with Unsheltered homeless people and get them in and I don't think we've made a lot of progress on that to be honest Jared can you speak briefly to the crisis of food insecurity in this moment? And what efforts have been made to connect people with food. Yeah I mean I think that one of the consequences of having congregate shelters be sort of more dangerous places to be now that there's a public health crisis is that people haven't known what to do in terms of communal cooking and a lot of things like that that used to happen in in in those kinds of shelters. I know in Cambridge Massachusetts. The mayor there Instituted a program where the city is basically paying restaurants that have had to shut down because of the state homeowners to create to make to make meals for Some of the local homeless shelters. If had they had a range restaurants just made in that and are sort of creating meals that can then be passed out in safe manner to To folks who are using the shelters some of these done similar things now are their projections. For how many more Americans could become homeless as a result of this pandemic? I have not seen any projections on how many people are likely to become homeless. I would say I that because of the additional resources federal resources. At least we do have a chance. I think if we're stiff we're strategic to move a lot of people who are currently homeless into housing. But I have a lot of fears about what's going to happen as the country opens up again. Many people now are living under rent forbearance programs. They don't have to pay the rent at the moment but when all of this ends they're going to still owed. These are many of the same people who haven't been able to work er only worked sporadically. They're not GONNA have three months worth of back rent they don't have assets or they would have been paying the rent already. We also have a lot of eviction moratoriums around the country and in certain kinds of housing that prevent people who can't pay their rent from being victim but those will also go away and so I think we're going to have a lot of people who owe rent and Able to be a victim and I'm concerned that we need to plan better about what's GonNa Happen to them. We the alliance and many other groups have come together to request a hundred billion dollars in the next stimulus bill for rental assistance in great part to prevent replacing the existing group of Homeless People. With just a new group that comes out of this pandemic and as we're seeing different cities reacting to the needs of unsheltered people during this pandemic. Do you believe that any of these temporary solutions give way to long term solutions? Yes I do think so and I think we have resources to move in that direction and I think a lot of jurisdictions California the District of Columbia where I live just took some steps to improve the situation allowing or requiring that landlords give people time to set up a payment plan for their rent rear ages. I think it's possible that we could come out of this better Nan. Roman is president and CEO of the National Alliance to end homelessness. And Jared Bray is a freelance reporter in Philadelphia and housing correspondent for next city. Thank you both very much for being here. Thank you so much. Thank you while bobbling. Mom bound bounty the music. Industry was dealt a serious blow this weekend. The loss of three icons little Richard Born. Richard Penman died of bone cancer on Saturday. At the age of eighty seven the self described King and Queen of rock and roll little. Richard had a larger than life persona and musical chops to match with hits like Tutti frutti slipping and sliding and good. Golly Miss Molly. He embodied rock and roll and inspired future music. Legends like the Beatles David Bowie Jimi Hendrix prints and Bob Dylan. He was unapologetic about who he was on. Stage of black queer man and he was vocal about the outsize impact. He had on an industry that never gave him the credit he deserved to other giants in music also died this weekend. From Non Corona Virus Related Causes Famed Moving Executive Andre Hurrell and legendary soul singer Betty Wright who were fifty nine and sixty six years old respectively all in all an incredibly tough weekend for some legendary black performers who influenced most of the music. You here today in some way here to discuss the legacy of these three music. Legends is Hanif of Dura keyed a poet essayist and cultural critic from Columbus Ohio and the author of several books including go ahead in the rain notes to a tribe called quest. So glad to have you here with us like you asked me. I appreciate it. Let's start with little Richard. What made him stand out as a performer? As an artist. Well I think that if you are lucky enough if you have the time to watch his ultra funded says I would say from about the mid fifties too when he kind of revived his career in the mid to late sixties? Uc someone who understood the controlled? Add over audience. He was I think in elite level performer Also just kind of plainly. Music was also good as is hooked for catching. This songs were always building towards some kind of rapturous swelling that could really capture the ear inn. Hearts of many. He was a great writer and get incredible voice and I think between him Bait they kind of ushered in an era of rock and roll. That is a blueprint for what we know. Now we're his onstage and offstage personas the same not particularly and I think that also that question also depends on the season of life. That will which was in. I mean I think that and of course I'm speaking of somebody did not know him at all but you read stories about how he was sometimes. Earn the men's sometimes. Aslam as he was on stage but I think that he seemed to come. Alive is mostly and there was an audience. So I do think that I I the more people that were around to kind of watch him or be a party to his personality being more tuned into it. Who are some of the artists that we might not know about today? Had it not been for Little Richard James Brown and Jimi Hendrix the Beatles? All these people who started with him Hendrix Guitar player for So there are artists who I think. The thing that I hope doesn't not get Boston discussing of little. Richard's like he was that he was so kind and generous to artists. Who were coming up a bit after him and I think one thing that hurt him. A great deal was that some of those artists after they surpassed in popularity perhaps did not share that same generously him the notorious interview from the ninety s and early stone. I think maybe nineteen ninety-three after Paul McCartney Gotten some lifetime achievement award in in little. Richard was genuinely hurt. That McCartney in thank him. He thanked all these other originators. And all these other people help the Beatles and little Richard had helped him to be else in wasn't thanked us. I think that there's some it's always seemed to me like there was some sadness there for someone who was very generous to a generation of artists who came in after him. When he didn't have to be at the point he would offer up. Gigs and offer slaps I think this is because of how Richard came up on me. One of those first performances consist arose at Tharp. Let him open for her and then pay the money which inspired him to to keep pursuing performance. So I think he paid that forward with generation of artists and was not always properly banked for that. What role did his race and his sexuality play? In the way that little Richard was or was not recognized his race. I could speak most clearly does race. I'm anti removal of black musicians from the history of American music is Extends far beyond little Richard died at a he is one of the most prominent cases of that. I think that he spent in a long amount of his career and his life. Kind of shouting at the powers-that-be attempting to remind them of what he accomplished. And I don't think he'd have to do that if you were white. I don't think you have to do that if he were say. Elvis but I think the idea that the public was quote unquote not ready for an artist. Like Richard to be at the height of rock and roller therapy or big outdoor or any of these people who were setting to the height of musically think. We're pushing forward. The sound and style of early era of rock and roll blues of Even Country Music. I think race played a role in in them being removed from their legacies and it was done so using the idea that America was not ready to trays. A black person as a musical innovator in the history of American music is the history of black music. There's no detaching to let's talk about Andre Harrell now another giant in the music industry who died this weekend. He was fifty nine years old. The cause has been listed as heart. Failure and Hurrell was responsible for launching the careers of some huge names and hip hop and R and B. What did his label uptown. Records mean for the industry. I think that a Tom Sizemore hero. Being the person who I kind of spotted lead account records did I think was create a style aesthetic. A sound that for me and my felt like turn the tide What was being played on the radio? What music videos look like? I remember those early marriage a live music videos and like music was being made specifically for me and for the people loud which it's which isn't the Before this there was no music a lot but I think that his men's was maybe focused a bit younger and how to get kind of R&B into the to a younger generation. Who could see it as something? Cool something new in reshape style of it. Which and this is. All I think pound was was kind of the next thing in a long line of of army. That was already attempting. That already doing it to some extent but he really wanted a world particularly marriage. I you know Joe to see there are a lot of moving parts in uptown records. I felt like they were changing. The wave of alarm be south popularity but especially army and he didn't just work in the music industry but he also expanded to film and Television and articulated this really big vision for documenting and celebrating black culture. Right can you remind us of some of his work in those spaces? Yeah I mean I remember the film Strictly business which came out in nineteen ninety. One and I particularly even the business. I remember New York undercover Tv show that ran on Fox for about forty years in from ninety four to ninety seven ninety eight And I I think that he was invested in those are just to dump the might immediately but I think beyond that scope the line that can be drawn through his music and his film and television work was that he was attempting to broaden A vision of black life and he was attempting to for black people. I think because I think there's a difference between attempting to show the interior nuances of black life With hopes that a white audience might except in warm up to that kind of quote unquote idea of a of a black person or the idea of black person's life but it seemed to me Andre was really working hard To widen the vision of what black people could be could be capable of and he was doing for black holes another sad loss. This weekend on Sunday was the soul singer Betty Wright. She was sixty six years old in the cause was cancer characterize Betty Wright's influence on the music world. Think that Betty Right Was someone who kind of sustained through generations You know I think the last for me One of the best buddy right albums is the one that came out in two thousand eleven. The movie with the roots or the risk of it And you know I think I think I think that was one of her most successful albums chart wise and you know as she in her final final five to seven years of her life. She was seamlessly kind of working with rappers. Working more contemporary artists And this is you know decades away from white. Clean Up. All that in and babysit her hits in Seventies and so I I think the the great boss that he right was at lea- Boston artists who was Seamlessly folding into a new generation of music in allowed herself to refined her voice. Again and again and again And you know her her her biggest hits of course where we're in the seventies. Her career spanned even decades. She had Really strong albums and every decade Seventies Eighties Nineties Two Thousand Twenty Times And she was kind of someone who I thought was really fearless in how she was unafraid to turn corners unafraid. Try New sounds Also I think she was. A vocalist feels respected and beloved by vocalist. And those are the ones that I think really special. I mean she was also known for her mentorship right much. Like mentioned with Little Richard and with Andrei Hurrell in terms of influence of in ushering in new talent. It seems like right took a very active role in her mentorship with artists like Johstone and Jennifer Lopez. Why was mentorship so important to her? I think that they're artists legacy to extend beyond just their their work record. She someone who was sampled and she is someone who is well respected in hip hop but also I think that she took a real investment in doing what she could to make sure that her style and our influence in our sound live beyond herself and lived in younger artists as well I think mentorship is the thing that extends legacy more than almost anything else Passing down what one knows to someone else is A way to keep the name either. Keep their sound alive and I think perhaps Betty Wright was invested in that because of those reasons last week on this show we talked about how the pandemic has really affected the live music scene and really decimated at right now. But we're also seeing some very creative bright spots like the verses instagram battle between Jill Scott and Erica do over the weekend and I'm wondering what you make of these kinds of round performances and what it means for the performers and what it means for the viewers right now. Yeah I mean. I'm often wondering how sustainable this'll be whenever You know for to understand that there are some things on my fell be Irreversibly changed that's understandable. But when Lee? Whenever the day comes that we will be able to gather in groups again outdoors will sustain because. I do think that there is a real excitement around Not even necessarily the songs themselves in these song quote Unquote Battles The the dialogue between the musicians and the ways that the song accounting stories back and forth in the way the musicians are kind of you know particularly with just do it seemed like they were just really invested in the language in in storytelling that their music was doing and they're stealing a battle it. All it felt like two old friends really Enjoying each other's company and and and commentary. I think I preferred. That was much was much warmer to me. Much exciting to me And I'm interested in sustainability on. This is a model. Is it something that can perhaps be transferred to live space real life space? Is this something that could be expanded upon in the outdoors any away or is this something that we just get once a month for the rest of you know the rest of maternity or or twice a month or something like that You know I I do appreciate the inventiveness of the way musicians have found out how to use the platforms to reach people during this time. But I'm also thinking about sustainability and what people have the bad with or and how actually eager people be be outside among other people. I think that too has yet to be seen You know if tomorrow something happened. Where magically virus entirely gone and people could go outside and Gavin large groups again. I still think there'd be a lot of tentativeness about about that. I still think people might not go to go to music. Festivals as eagerly if there were one next week and so I think that these lays set folks have adapted at bought a lot of pleasure to people and I'm interested in seeing how they could continue to adapt as as restrictions loosened and things like that avid a neef. Abdur Akib is a poet essayist and cultural critic and the author of several books including go ahead in the rain notes to a tribe called quest and thank you for being here. Thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of your day. And you've been telling us what these artists meant to you at eight seven seven eight mile. Take high calling for my garden no grin. It was nineteen seventy the Olympic auditorium in Los Angeles went to see Jerry Lewis with a bunch of other people Albert King but no country on fish were supposed to play but they never got to be on stage because when little Richard was onstage. He invited everybody up to come on the stage and dance and sing and there were people on top of the piano and we were screaming and yelling and dance and and all of a sudden the stage K in all you could hear little. Richard cussing from underneath the stage and concert. Had To stop there because there was no stage. My Mom gave me the best gift I get. She told me the story of when we were in Hollywood boulevard. I was about five little. Richard came down limousine. And you'd have the and he was yelling and singing and just being monitored and for some reason he stopped in front of my family. Got Out pick me up. Did a little dance gets my little inconsistent. Shook my parents hand so you got a beautiful family. Got Back in his car in Joel Book. We lost to legend all yesterday. And thank you restrict recipes. They don't research was pioneer and a hero complicated as all heroes on profane and spiritual talented and yet they hope to keep his memory alive by listening to his music teaching my daughter about him. L. Helping inspired by and not be paid this Eka. I'm calling in Palm Desert Highs. It's Kathy calling from Portland Oregon Little Richard. She will live on forever through his news vic. Hi this is John. I'm calling from Vashon Island in Washington state. I thought he was the most dynamic performers that I had ever seen. Still think he was a marvelous person Have kind of the same opinion that I had Ali who was very outspoken and and straightforward and express themselves. Well Richard did that to hi. I'm Karen Kelly from San Jose California. I'm sixty four years old and I remember being amazed at health world accepted. Little Richard even though they might not have accepted others like him at the time meaning is makeup and hair and dress et cetera. Music can break down so many barriers. I calling from Miami As an African American artist the passing of Little Richard and Andre Hurrell. And now betty right. Who is from Florida? Miami also is really. It's severely impactful. I disowned myself. Trying about it today partly because of the loss of elders and people who have gotten to to meet or who've been packed in my life so much so my father told me about the history of little Richard and and how he was the architect of rock and roll and how and he came out. Dressing is way speaking this way behaving this way. It was something people. Were not accustomed to seeing outside very small sex of our community and so he was a real true laser. Andre Herrero Teen Years Thoughtful Person Writer artist heave brought all of his music into my life. That has been some of the most impactful and profoundly wonderful thing as it relates to shaping who? I am as an artist Philip person now I know. I can't be the only nineties kid who remembers little. Richard giving in unsurprisingly electrifying performance in recording the theme song for the Magic School bus. His Voice. Tuck us on that wild ride rafting down a river of lava getting baked into a pie. And Hey our phone lines are always open. You can give us a call anytime at eight. Seven seven eight nine eight somewhere spring in the month of April alone. More than twenty million people in the United States lost their jobs and the data that women people of color and low wage workers were most affected by this crisis but it's not solely because of covert nineteen crisis. Those economic viruses were already at work before the corona virus hit. That's Cornell West an American philosopher and longtime racial justice activist. He says this crisis exposes loan standing problems in this country especially around race and wealth in this unprecedented moment. We Got Cornell West on the line to hear his thoughts on everything from the economic situation to the upcoming presidential elections and the shooting of a MoD rb in Georgia and he shows us where those all connect brings tears to my eyes with to sing. you know very sad Decay decline and deterioration of the American Empire. Very clear that a commitment to public goods our commitment to our common life. is so weak. We've got individuals citizens who are marvelous bag memphis it but our institutions and our structures so money driven and so- profit maximizing in. Its aim that we lose sight of the needs of of our citizens and we see it in the healthcare we see it in government we see it and business. We see it in education. It's it's it's very sad. Sad moment to be alive in this country. We hope we have bounced back. I think that we still have some bounce back left. This is not the decline and fall of the American Empire but certainly is the decay of the American Empire. We'll see how how much democratic bounce back we really have. We'll go to mind that we are and the people I wanNA talk about Ahmad Aubrey the unarmed black man who was gunned down in a suburban neighborhood in Brunswick Georgia grand. Jury was called to investigate but that was only after very recently when a video was leaked and the incident happened in. February is any part of. You still shocked that these stories are happening. That were still here forming anytime I innocent person is If gunned down and in in in in that case of course it seems to be a white supremacist crime. So let's in black brother gunned down I'm affected I'M NOT SURPRISED. I mean and vicious legacy of white supremacy shut to every institution and structure every nook and cranny of this country so I'm not surprised in that sense but I refuse to beat. Numbed refused to view this as routine. That's this is a crime against humanity and we've seen this for four hundred years in this nation but are the major problems you know. My the is that it's so easy to talk about it and feel bad for a day or to go through Catharsis and still not be able to intervene and do something about it. And this is what makes me sad that the we see the cycle over and over again of talking about so many manifestations of white supremacist attacks assaults crimes against people of color this case black brothers and then that's just part and parcel of what it means to be in America. Therapy is not a mature Society is concerned about the weekend. Vulnerable Society worships money and status and celebrity and waited has time through philanthropy charity. It might make some symbolic gestures in regard to as suffering and misery among poor and working people but it seems as if we just don't have what it takes we don't have the cultivated capability to be a full-fledged democratic society concerned about all of our citizens especially the least of need especially the weak and the vulnerable. Well Dr West. Let me ask you about that that repetition that you're talking about because I feel like when a video like this surfaces there is a very visceral reaction. It gets shared widely on social media. But I feel like something different seems to be happening this time around where I feel like. I've been seeing more and more people saying this time. Please just stop sharing that video and I wonder how much that has to do with the moment that we're in right now with a with isolation with trauma are we all being re traumatized and maybe over traumatized in the sharing of these videos or do you believe that there is a power in sharing them. I think that you can't live in a state of denial. You can't go or voidance of the criminality are meant and so it's easy to say. Well let's not look at it. Let's not show it in the end. Maybe let's not talk about it too much. I've got enough on my plate. And yet the only way you engage an injustice is to confront the injustice and then try to individually and collectively intervene. And do something about it such that. It doesn't happen again. Happens much much much less so than it. Ordinarily does and this is true in terms of this look at all the bodies around the hospitals most of those body disproportionately black and red and brown but depressed really then focus on those bodies in those costs under the hospital inside out insane. We're the Perez doesn't keep track of all the bodies coming back from our wars. No we go. We knocked on highlight that that. That's just too much travel. We can only take so much you said. Well we'll wait a minute now I just think that It it you know. We can't be a country that has grown wealthy and grown powerful and yet we have not grown up and when you grow up and become a mature nation just like a mature person. You do not live in a condition of denial and he's agent and avoid. It's you have to learn how to confront the suffering yet to learn how to wrestle with the misery and try to come out on the other side and if we cannot come out on the other side then we do go down. We do go down as the democratic experiment has an empire and sadly so it looks as if that's where we're headed denying ecological catastrophe. That's impending with denying nuclear catastrophe. That's possible and of course when brother burning thank God. He's trying to raise the issues of the denial of the economic catastrophe. The wealth inequality not just a crisis but the chronic systemic wealth inequality that creates a crisis every day. Well I'm glad that you brought up Bernie Sanders because I'd like us to turn to talk about the presidential race. You were once a Bernie Sanders surrogate for campaign rallies. But when Sanders dropped out you decided to endorse. Joe Biden I I'm curious to hear you talk about Sanders. Lasting legacy on the Democratic Party on their platform for this year and really without a push from sanders will Joe Biden meet the expectations of the most progressive voters in the party. Well I'm glad you asked that question though because I think in Dorthe might be too strong a word my dear sister I do more. How do you feel about so I put. I'm part of like myself. Part of an anti fascist coalition against the gangster in the White House and the question becomes. How do we get him out before the Democratic experiment completely runs out? I consider my dear brother. Joe Biden a mediocre milk. Toasts Neil liberal responsible for in many ways along with strong determinant of the largest most vicious prison system in the modern world. That's what those crime bills going from. Eighty Ninety did and he bragged about it up until a few years ago. I consider his support. The invasion occupation of Iraq. A crime against humanity. You just go in ended up killing half a million precious human beings in Iraq at not. Have some kind of reflection at deep apology. It was based on lie as we know. I consider him supporting Wall Street. Greed gone all the way back glass steagle so that you can see. It's hard for me to say am door thing. A mediocre meal toes meal liberal like brother Biden. No I'm calling for us to Kinda hold on noses and vote. Because he seems to be at this point even though he's no friend of working people he's no friend of poor people at this point he seems to be the only thing we can do to get out the neo-fascist gang sent away down what it is be part of an anti fascist coalition with many in your coalition. But Not really your friends. But they're your allies in the same way. Almost like United States had to join hands with Soviet Union. The push out against the name Hitler. Right and war to the Soviet Union didn't become our close friends became our allies because we had to work together. Neil Liberals who are of the Biden's killed by me. I love him as stupid beans. 'cause I'm Chris but politically. They're not my friends about I my back up against the wall. That's what I call for a vote for him as the closed doors. We gotta tell the Truth About him. Even as we recognize that he's better than than blow the trump's brother trump is ted up bad news dangerous narcissistic in the PHOBIC guy. Big Big military will do anything projects himself and food do irreparable damage to this Democratic Experiments Cornell West Joe Biden has been accused of sexual assault by a former Senate staffer Tara Reid Biden has denied the allegation. What will you Cornell West? Be Watching for in Biden's ongoing response to this and in voters ongoing responses to this. We've gotTA give sister Space so that her voice heard and we've got to make him accountable based on the evidence. Of course he is innocent before proven guilty. But we've got a follow through and and based on the evidence see where it goes. I don't believe with shutting down in any way and I think that the the metoo movement is part and parcel of the progressive movement and he has to be accountable and answerable and responsible. I hear you when you say that. your plan is to hold your nose and vote for him but what do you say to voters perhaps Bernie Sanders supporters? Who are feeling disillusioned by Biden as the democratic option. And are maybe just trying to think. Of what their other options are. I think that despair and disillusionment ought to be our intimate companions given garth situation right now all of us to feel certain kind of disillusionment and a certain kind of despair but just not allow either one to have the last word you know. The great girder used to say here. Shoes never despair it is ever lived and as a black man in American foreign it years of Slavery Jim Crow One and now Jim Brochu. I've been dispatched for the last fifty years battle. At the fair that have left the blues to the Blues. Man Takes the despair and transfigured into songs into life. Feed practice action so the specialty young folk. I tell them all the time. I'm being the disillusioned brother less good. That means you're not now. Now what are you GonNa do with that disillusionment or you're going to be debilitated and no longer fight or you're gonNA fall out of the political process in such a way that you don't vote in any way someone would go degreen folks. I got a lot of Conrad's than the Green Party. I disagree with them. This time. I'VE AGREE. Put them before still comrades. We just have a disagreement in terms of how we deal with this particular election and keep in mind. Voting is just one small part of the largest sense of what it means to be and you try to create counter voices countervailing institutions Coun- availing cultures against the culture of big money. Big Military Zena Phobia losing sight of humanity of Jews and Muslims and Palestinians and Arabs and Mexicans and women and gays and Lesbians Expresses Trains and so forth so that the creation of a progressive countervailing culture. The larger project is not just who you vote for. And so we remain part of that counterculture even some of like Noam Chomsky and other say we hold our noses in full for the mail tells Neil Liberal recognizing that we have to be not just rendering him accountable but putting tremendous pressure on him because he's still tied to Wall Street he feel his part of the Neil liberal wing of the ruling class and the way that trump is the neo-fascist wing of the ruling class. We WanNa keep the ruling class and stuff accountable and in the end we want to fundamentally transform catalysts American such a way that the almanacs Berries and poor whites and appellation are addressed. You see me then part of the larger larger project. These are the kinds of issues that Martin Luther King. Junior was concerned about militarism racism and all of his form poverty and all of this and then materialism unethical spiritual issue is right now. America has a spiritual crisis is tied to much degree and contempt of weaken vulnerable in indifference to the others who are degraded and corruption and when you get greed and corruption and contempt all together. You've got a lethal combination. That leads toward the collapse of your social experiment at the collapse of your empire and the collapse of democratic experiments. And we're all we're all at the same time we are and we're a precious democratic experiment with in the bowels of that empire and at the same time like any social experiment we can come and we could go to Cornell West. Let me ask you one last question with so much inequality and unemployment and hurting and pain right now in the world. What's giving you hope? Oh Good God Almighty Hope. For me is As much of her as virtue which is been motion. Nothing's GonNa stop me from being in motion until the worms get my body and nobody can steal. My Joy Got Precious Memories of mom and dad and loved ones. Mark King X and stranded Lou. Hey Curtis Mayfield. Aretha Franklin John Coltrane Dizzy. Gillespie those Joe is can never be taken away. They could send you to jail. They could lie about you. And those joys the fruit fruits of the love supreme that you have for Truth and beauty and goodness and other people love of neighbor. That's what it is to be a revolution Christian in my own humble opinion see and so in that sense whatever. The circumstances are the fight. The spirit of engagement can never be snuffed out. It could never be suffocated. It could never be eliminated. It's a kind of defeat list despair wrestling with despair but refused the defeated see. That's what it is. It'd be a Muslim woman in a blues man to it so in that sense you know going down with a smile. I'm going down swinging Ella Fitzgerald at Bob at least with style and a smile and pass it on to your generation my system Doctor Cornell West. I really appreciate you being here to speak with me. He is an American philosopher and racial justice activist. Thank you so much Dr West News. Well that's our show for today as always thank you for listening you can call in and share any thoughts about any of these stories at eight seven seven eight my take you can also send us a tweet at the takeaway and you can tweet at me at shoe. That's S. H. U. B. A. S. U. I'm Shumita Basu in for tenzing Vega and this is the takeaway.

Richard Joe Biden Andre Hurrell Philadelphia United States San Francisco president and CEO America Cornell West Jared Betty Wright Jared Bray Bernie Sanders New York Cornel West Beatles Nan Roman California reporter
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She Podcasts

53:28 min | 10 months ago

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"Report. Paolo welcome to she podcasts where we are figuring out how everything ourselves and it's going okay so far. Yeah, we have a couple of people washing. Hello, hello, John is not with us today he is. Not Feeling well and so we can wish him get well. You might be around. He said he was going to watch. US Wash could be watching. We don't know, but if you are high cyrus growing it out, we may as well just apologize for screwing it up. Sorry we're screwing it up. How have you been? What did you do this weekend? Oh. My Gosh. It was so hot. Introduced this Elsie I'm just guy. Hey. All, you knew people that might possibly be listening to us, and of course all you old schoolers who have been with us for how many years now? Sensex. Only God. We just had our sixth birthday in June. We missed it. Yeah, we missed it the thirteenth or something. That's right. We have people saying get well John Domingo Bonnie and Kerry so. You, guys were thank you so much. Everybody and St John's mingle back next week for now show. So. You walked around Iwa ninety nine, because I really needed to deal with getting off my behind. It's been very very jam-packed. I would say stressful week last week. and I didn't really get off of my very much as much as I needed to. And I really needed to go outside and so I did I walked in ninety degree. Heat in the mind you I. Don't go work out specifically I. Just I Walk Sometimes. I like to walk faster. Sometimes I walk slower. But it was really hot, and I have bug bites all over and you just and you jess in the heat. What did you do in the heat? The only thing there is to do around here is to go to the swimming pool at the JC so. I'm grateful that all the other people who are there are people who live in North Wilmington and are sort of in this little. Is kind of being a little safety bubble because they're also the people that I would socialize with around here. They're also the people that go to school with him or that. We'll go to kindergarten with him next year so I'm not really branching out socially as far as like. It's like probably a mix of one hundred people that I don't deviate from. That sounds like a lot of people but right. It's like it's really parents and kids, and so it wasn't as crowded as I thought it would be at the pool like what else is there to do? I don't want to take him to the movies. Nothing else is open like those trampoline parks and stuff like we're not doing that I'm not taking them to a restaurant I. Don't WanNa go to the mall like this is. The safest thing is chlorine. Chlorine just shove him in a bunch of chemicals, and then hopefully we won't get sick, so that's all I. do I go to the Poi- left and we went. Yes, Hussy. When did they go Saturday? I was there from one to six and then yesterday. I was there from like two five thirty. It was shorter day, but each time I have to drag him out of the pool by is hey. Go Right, but that's like that's a common occurrence of every single child the first day and it's actually happened last week to were like I of just let him play I. Don't really bother him because you find on his own. But he doesn't drink water and then at night he gets crampy. Yeah, so like so like, and he did it again Saturday and so yesterday every five minutes every time he would like run by me and like water. Drink some water to. Grab him just to get him to drink something because it's hard to get them out of the pool. And just because he's in water and makes them think he doesn't need to drink any so yeah, well. At least he's not drinking water from the pool, but alas look at what we have going on in the chap after. School plans just came out for me as a teacher. I want to cry and I'm concerned and overwhelmed, but Patrick Keller it, but honestly loved saying it's bad like I still we still can't guess whether they're going into. Not because it's bad, you going in as bad staying home as bad during a hybrid is bad, all of it is bad so like he says he needs distractions, but like What about your school are you guys on? Because it's a small school. Right? You're. Battering as of right now they're trying to figure out some kind of solution. And of course, my my lovely other half has all kinds of ideas, so he's trying to. He's trying to get our home school coop together with our gymnastics, people and see if they can come somehow together to create something, social distancing and spacious. Because the are gymnastics, people are suffering. Greatly have classes, and they have to pay for this gigantic. You know what I mean Yeah, this extra stress that I'm thinking like. Oh my God. These people so there he's trying to figure out how we can unite those in some way, and if we didn't like something like California it would be not. I can't say it would be easy. No, it would be. Be I guess you could have classes outside, because there's all of this space, but with us that have sort of inclement weather here and there I don't know how this would play out in the like. Can you imagine having classes outside when it's windy and cold, it's supposed to be ninety speaking from someone who got married September twelfth. That doesn't go away. The second school starts. It was hot as a mother. And a Lotta time it's hot as a mother on Halloween. It's GONNA be hot if you do school outside, it's going to be i. mean probably more for you than me, but it's going to be hot for a while. At least through I think you're right at least through like mid October, because we have had October's that for the most part that starts to get rainy and Yaldo, when the cult member last October when I was doing my like instagram story like John was making fun of me, because I had like all the coverings on my head. Anyway, speaking of Johnny's in the chat. That John John. batchelor. And we have colors. We have collusion. The I was very nervous about sending Isaac to a private school because it's very small, and it turns out that it was the best thing I ever did because it's small enough where we in person classes, so they're going in. At least for now but right. I also saw this morning at is one of the two states that are declining in cases, so that's good. That's green. So. Do some of my friends who were going to send their kids to public school now looking into where Isaac's going. Because it's the only chance they're going to have of having school in person. I think he's got like six kids in his class now. Probably end up with ten. I guess, but yeah small so luckily as long as they. They'll probably have to wear masks and social distance the idea of doing that as a kid for me, it would make me miserable. I mean I guess they'll adapt right. They'll have to adapt and also I mean even. I just had a situation with my eleven year old. You know we were. She's very sad like she goes through lots of emotions. Of course mind you. She's A. She's a tween. But then she sitting there in like the stat like Randy had to have a conversation with her meaning. Not sure we're going to be having classes when we come in the fall and that's what she's been looking forward to. So now. She's like there's a sense of defeat inside of her. She doesn't see the light of day. Oh! It's just overwhelming like all the the friends and all the things she's going through in like an all honesty I'm like I don't even know what to tell you. I am very sorry. I just hug and kiss her. Just say I'm sorry hang. With her friends like yeah, we're GONNA try. We've already started to touch me with parents. You know texting and stuff just for the couple of hours just so they can. Discern exactly just to have a little something, but it's really painful. You know because in in all the things we try to solve these problems right Oh. If she needs more outlets, we can do these things if she wants this. We can do these things. Terribly. Socialization Patrick, saying forty six kids and one of his classes holy Mazas. That's a bad I eileen. That's a lot of children. Where does he live in southern right? A. Knife a knife and is oh my own. Business having six kids in one classroom I'm sorry. I hope that they changed that up. Your state starts declining cases soon. Maybe everybody will call. Maybe a miracle will happen. Everyone will cooperate with one another. That would be amazing. That would be amazing, but now on that note. Why don't we talk about some of the things that you've been worked? Not quite some news the stuff that you've been working on. That, so Jessica has been head to the ground trying to create this amazing shop, you guys. People I'll share sprain. Even though I have no idea what this end up to sound like I will share the screen and show you guys the store so far. This is the store we have all different logo styles. Pink Blue Green, Retro Soap Rainbow. Including one spiral, this is the t shirt I got because I love the red eye I love ringer tees, and then it's like a red ring, t with like black on the sides I got that one I got the I got the ringer. T that is the. The navy with the gold things on the yes, okay, so that's the one that I got though, but but rainbow right, but rainbow. Yes, I got the Rainbow One and I also got a tank top. For the super squats so one that is, is she podcast so yeah, that's the one. I got so really. Look at that. It's so perfect I can't even? Look so cute. Okay So anyway so far it's only it's most teachers just made the one notebook as t shirts and tank tops and one Hoodie. That you can get in different colors and you can shop. Buy What you can't yet because I haven't put it in here, but you can either shop by super. Squad logo or the she podcast logo. I was going to put that. See So. There's two different ones you can have super squad, or you can have casper squad. Yeah, SUPER SQUAD GEAR! We'll probably put the two different logos here that you can shop through. And some collections, and whatever, so yeah, this is what I'm working on X-xi podcasts dot shop. The store is live and ready. It's just not designed. It's designed not finished, but it is functional, so if you go to catalog, or if you go down here to see the different colors it should work. It will work. Elsie already bought stuff. And they were always amazing. It was so easy to and we figured, and so the reason that my body it people, which is kind of nuts. Is that I'm here I'm? I'm on my facebook on IPAD because I again? We talked about this in in one of the Super Squad Cuny where Patrick asked. You know what are some best practices for not going down? Rabbit holes in on social and one of them is that I can't see the feed when I'm on the computer. That's like more work time, and then I. generally check facebook. When on the IPAD so I was in the. On my fat, it and I started to see. The shop come feed and like. Those are so cute. I would've I won, and so I told us. Kelly buys them. Yeah, So von Channel Now total Patrick is asking what Fatman look like in the she podcast shirt. I mean we're happy to find out because some of the shirts go up to five X. so if you need any size from small to five x you got it. I'm assuming fatman look fantastic in our shirts, matter of fact Iraq or even. The sweat sweatshirt at some point there. Harry's asking for a new coffee. Cup because her hers. As soon as Clara Clara wants to know what I'm using print defy shackles lie. which brings to today's brings me to today's poll for the people who are watching it live, so do we shot a by? Has the opportunity to connect to? Something called obair. Alot o'beirn low helps you put stuff in your store, and then they help you drop ship, so for example let's say I. wanted to do beach towels. I can type beach towels and here and see. We have to show this screen shitting. Wasn't showing I'm sorry. Yeah, sorry, everybody! That's listening! You are missing. L.! Sorry, all of. Guests. Mike Okay so okay so I so I searched channel. Let's just say I wanted to sell this hamburger beach town that you see you add it to the important list. And that imports you're an import your product right into shop. If I can change the title of the Collections Import to store, it'll just show up in the in the. She podcast store and boom. We have hamburger towels and pizza towels. Wow! Is there. Is there a desire? Do we think and just say yes, or no or give me your opinions? Do you think it would be fun to have stuff in our? She podcasts dot store that Elsie I liked, but the don't necessarily have our logo on it like a hamburger towel. Something totally put in there, but also you know like fun stuff that we. Like a microphone necklace like those little key chains that we way, we could probably put those in our store right, so should we people in the chat at this moment? And if you are listening to this later, you can always feedbacks at she podcast dot com, and you can even just put it in in your subject line. Yes, other things or no. Does she podcast brandon? is their desire for hamburger, towels or hamburger pizza doughnut French fries, watermelon, strawberry cupcake. And Sugar Skull the week because it's. Like Bonnie's comment is their desire for hamburger towels for example. Yes, okay, so carrying says yes Jenny. Says I think it'd be fun to have other things to be Honestly it'll just any one or two things as I. Peruse yes I. Love My mic chain, my. Some good good good. Yea. I love my key chain, so that would be a fun thing to put in there. It's not going to be branded, but I think those things would be cool. Are you shipping to Sweden? I mean yes yes. Honestly. County from India, so there's no reason why I couldn't come to me or sweeten I. don't even know I she podcast. Tell us. Via Printer Fi, but you know and also I can find that drop ship. Besides print fi, but it's just whether or not you would be interested in some stuff that is non logo. I can separate it out in the store where it's like she podcast logo other. You know we can organize anyway. We want so things. Yeah, things in what's in Jessica's bag. What's an? Yeah, so ran. into if anyone not into it or think it's stupid, just tell me tell us feedback. As she podcast dot com, but yeah all right. That's very encouraging. We can put some fun stuff in there. Sure so everybody needs to go check that out and see if you guys if you people. Shop for something for us to see if things are working I actually tested it out. Because the first time I bought a t shirt teacher ended. It was twenty two dollars for the teacher, and then the shipping and handling was like almost twenty three dollars I was like just. Who Are you? Have you calling you? People are people here seething. Sorry, are people here? Yeah, so? Anyway aw, but she fixed it for me. And now everything is not twenty two dollars, shipping and handling, which was Zoro? Okay, so shall we move on with shows? Oh, my gosh, but we also have not talked about that. She podcast super squad. Wait that we have coming up as well. We have so many things. Jessica has been a busy busy person, and we have lots of oops. That's the wrong banner. The one. Jess has been working very hard from working very. Very hard yeah, so I've been making all the things the membership actually so for those of you who are watching this live. You're in super squad and we are going to be dumping you in there probably this week so that you can piddle around in there. See all the different functionalities. I will see that some of the. Courses are fully put together. For example. We have every video Qa we've ever done ever. But Scott is transcribing them today, and they will actually be transcribed with time codes, but we what we really wanted to do was put together an Faq with all the subjects that you could just search Faq. That's not going to be done for a while. That's like a I want to get all of the videos in from. She podcast live. I want all the Qa videos to be in I want there's something else? Oh. I hope. Does it mind this? But I'm thinking about doing like our like our podcasting school for women or something just to get people started just with a disclaimer that it's outdated because people are saying asking for the unit that we have and I took them out of the grooming. We can just disclaim at some of the videos may be a little bit outdated, but the reason why I'm GonNa Dump and dump is not a nice word, but whatever I'm going to dump you in their early is because it has a lot of socio socializing. What the fuck am I trying to say? It has a of socialization built into it, so for example all the things that you liked maybe about the WHO've APP and we were doing our event. We use this great APP. That allowed you to update upload photos and articles and posts and Ping each other and have private conversations and public conversations and. Events and meet ups like all that functionality is in our membership so sorry I was eating cherries, and now they're coming back, not sure. Everybody needed to do when you eat cherries. You get a lot of Air I. think in your belly well, because you have to spit it out, you know so. There's an in the workflow of eating creatures. Okay okay. Anyway. So anyway, so I hope you guys, will I mean the idea of a Web test is to like break in I. Certainly don't want you to break it, but if you do find stuff that isn't working properly. You! Tell me if you don't mind. You don't have to certainly, but anyway so I'm GONNA. Put you guys in there soon. Four, super squatters who are signed up currently. includes. Anyone who signs up before September first right because that's when we turn on the pricing, anyone up before September. I will get the first three months free six months three months. I don't remember to think changing I ended up going to like twenty twenty one by the time September. That's like four months and then. Four months free, and then it's a sliding scale so then after that you can choose what you want to pay. We have three different tiers that all have the same access. So in the chat I'm seeing lots of deviation. Somebody makes Patrick made a hamburger pillow in home Mac Reversible vast Patrick says he needs a lot of today and one from you next. When is it going to come I? Don't know we might be discussing things that will I? Don't let that means. Let it rip matter but. This is what's so so we have. Another stuff because it's. Time for that stuff, 'cause. It's time for that stuff. Shall we move on? Do it the news you can use? For, the informed portal. Offering News. Actually. Why don't we do this I? The the Webinar that you're doing that I, so I already did that Webinar. What I am you play right in here or the reason that yeah, it's the replay because it really went very well we I am so excited by it I can't even tell you we had I think. By the time the Webinar was live, we had about one hundred and seventy something people who had signed up. We had a a little bit over fifty percent. They are live, which was incredible? Incredible we had about thirty percent, go to the call to action within the collar action was released. It's a webpage that we decided that we created at Lipson. Everybody always wants to know like. How do I contact so and so like? How do I connect? What are they doing? So Sarah from lipson created this beautiful little landing page where it has everybody in it has all of our landing pages, and all the things that we're doing right now. Which is amazing Patrick was there? She was awesome I mean he was. Sorry Patrick I mis gendered. You Patrick was there. Too He's very front now. I'm sorry. Sorry! Sorry, so, but it was so fun, and and the only reason I'm saying this because you could still watch the the repeat that play, and really there's nothing all other than you have to essentially sign up for crowd cast. I don't know if any of you have already signed up for crowd cast in the past. It's a really great little platform, and then you can watch the entire thing. There were some. Incredible truth bombs dropped in there some amazing strategy around podcasting and really I think the conversation was around. There are data and why Latinos really do matter, and in fact, it's not just Latinos how this data is really reflective of what is going to be happening in podcasting, and I think as anybody who is creating podcast right now. You need to be aware of what is happening with with the entire podcasting industry and the way that you need to nurture newer audiences, so please please please anyway. There is a link in our show notes for anybody who wants to go in to that That is it okay that is it on my Webinar, so you'll find it. Okay. Next so much news. What am I? Want to talk about this next one here? I think I. Did you put that one in their first or okay? Apple is launching his own Daily News podcast to compete with the daily and others. The company announced the show along with other news about audio stories coming to Apple News in curated by apple news collections as well as the release of thirteen point six. It's going to be called Apple News today. It'll be hosted by Apple News Editors. Shumita Basu and Duarte Geraldino. New Episodes, which will be seven to eight minutes long. We'll be released Monday through Friday and the show will be exclusively available through apple. News and Apple podcasts I wonder if that means, you have to pay for it because Apple News. No some stuff I get for apple for. News and sometimes apple news stuff I think the apple the apple will. This is a different thing though additional. Different when he johnny audios released through Apple News plus and you can only get that if you're a plus member, but I I guess daily podcast. I'm wondering if I mean if this is a common format, does everybody do the twelve minute new shore? They taking that from the news worthy with Erica Mandy because that's a very successful show, it is no, they are not taking it for America Mandy I believe Eric Mandy possibly took it from other people show. Yeah because I mean I I believe I new show. That's this daily show that I have seen. That has been going on forever as Mac Os Ken, and he is still doing it and most of his show, since about two thousand and five have been all about MAC news right anything apple related. That is somewhere between seven to maybe on the long side fifteen minutes, but he's been doing it daily sense then so, and it's a really really popular show, and of course the NPR T. T peeps and they figured news new shows. I mean think about that though I mean. How long will you? Would it be for you to be doing news every day? You have to study at every day but I. mean some of us are doing that anyway. Just because we WANNA know it's happening right now. I know, but I'm saying doing a show like this every day. Well I mean there are people who do this. Yeah, like the yeah, they arguable who do this. They have writer. For Long I. Don't know the Erica has raiders but I know that a lot of news shows have writers that help them. Keep up with stuff. Just put stories in front of them for them to read, so that's good are friends. In the podcast grew space. All weirded out by the fact that they could not find the apple podcasts apple podcast, RSS feed. I'm sure you saw these conversations of them going like. Oh, my i! Tell by the ours of the. Where is it? Who is it hosted by all my on my Lord Oh my Lord, and so we found out that said I actually asked this question inside of our little slack channel that we are part of and I was wondering what because I keep seeing? Everybody's like Whoa. They are feed to apple. The apple new show ever seed so deep Jackson said that they made some sort of podcast that was originally only going to be an apple. Apparently, people couldn't find us, and they did find it. Marco did meant, and it will be in some APPS. APPS, but not all. He hasn't dug into it, but that's what he gleaned from listening to James. Pod News, because I think James Pop news also covered the show, but then Sean Thorpe who is part of our super squad. Any comes here once in a while. Saying hey to all of us. He said quote. I think the reason we're talking about is is this is the show being produced by? That's truly promoted as an exclusive and we're trying to understand what that means. Technically, so that's really essentially what it said. And then Daniel came in to clarify things a little bit more, and he said this is how I tunes. You content works in Apple podcasts. Are Aware, or or you've ever downloaded any information or have you? Tunes you I did before was I tunes apparent actually one of the first podcast I ever download, so it is based in an ours set feed format, but you can't get. itunes US stuff outside of that so I do not. We eat I didn't need that's that's the news. People in terms of what's going on with apple podcasts that said though one of the reasons that. I Have our next a next bit of news here with Jerry Eaten on twitter so Jerry Eaten I. Think I'm not sure if I'm saying her name appropriately or correctly so I'm sorry if I did not say it correctly, she used to be a senior manager of programming acquisitions at NPR, but now she is just the newest higher for the apple podcast team. Jerry before she was coming to NPR, she worked in public television and then she was the in the previous job was as content development manager for a documentary film funder, and anyway, so she started off with public television, then moved to public radio, and now she is doing well podcasting stuff I don't know what her title is for Apple podcasts. Anybody who wants to guess what her title might be. Her it's also. I figure in. This is actually. There have been so many jobs that have been opening for apple podcasts. It's crazy. I think that I've seen at least ten separate positions. All that are going to be going into the apple podcasts team in some way shape or form any them awesome sauce. And House okay moving on now into spotify sound up. Diversity in podcast is back, but this time I know. We talked about this a couple of weeks ago on the show. This is the UK edition so I'm letting you all know that, at least as of now, this is like the third year that spotify is coming back with this and it is it. It will send twenty black women and Non Binary. People for a digital four week course that will feature workshops on focusing on storytelling and production so anybody that's in the UK that is listening. Do She podcast? There's going to be a link in the show notes for you to Nelson useful inch, and I am threatened. That is not even a frenchaccent whatsoever. Maybe but applications are open until August fourth at eleven fifty nine B. S. T. boom. Boom time boom standard time. Okay. All right. The Google has creator program which seeks to amplify underrepresented voices in podcasting is now accepting new applications Yay solution creators will get feedback from PR X. Industry experts on all aspects of their production, in addition to audio queant, twelve thousand dollars in funding and twelve weeks of virtual training on topics, such as storytelling, sound, design and more, the deadline is August two so similar to the spotify deadlines. Don't get them confused delinquency in our show notes, but if you feel like writing down, it's a she s on Dot r x dot. Org Slash to W. M. D. Zero Bay and you want to just go to our frigging notes. That might be. That's pretty exciting. Good for you. Guys. Google podcast, creator program and good for anyone who gets that. That's twelve thousand dollars is a really nice amount to get started. You can have yourself an editor and some staff. If you want. Plus you get you get feedback on whether or not. Your idea is viable, which is always useful especially from Pierre axe before we go to the next news worthy item, please check out if you have not already our sponsor member full sheep, high dot com forward slash member for M.. R. F. U. L. You can use member full to build sustainable recurring revenue by selling access to a members only podcast, it works with your RSS Feed you don't need to change your workflow or your host or anything. It's super easy fearlessness to subscribe in any player they want, and it includes everything you need to run a great membership program custom branding gift certificates gigabits gifts. Apple pay free trials and tons more so please check it out. Here's the link again. Also it will be in our show notes, but she podcast dot com forward slash member full. R F. L The end right we got. We have clear. Harris says that. Google podcast crater program has a live Qaeda's. Although all of you, people who are listening, you missed it. So, so I guess you won't be putting that in the show nuts, because what's the point? For, yeah for those who you listening right now in the super squad. Yeah, you can check that out. Yeah, you take all right, so so our friend though Jessica our friend sky from inside. Pop Yachting had a feature on Leo LaPorte just she'd on the future of podcasting, and this is what we're going to be linking in Z. show notes, and he you know he really been I for most of the part time. Leo Stays in his box meaning a job to do where he should wear. Where we'll. Maybe yeah, well, he's been around for you. Know he I'm sure like running this weekend. Tech is hard because I mean. He's running a network and he doesn't really have time to be writing medium pieces. Very strange. I mean honest when you the way you said that you also somehow broke up just enough for it to sound like you were cursing in bleep floor. It was so weird anyway. It was very funny though. Moving on, but he actually make some really interesting points in there that some of our super squad people like Andrea had a really interesting comment I posted this over on the Lipson page and Andrea Klunder. You know wrote in there a little a little something that has to do with what's happening in podcasting as a whole, but let's see well. He actually says quote the idea that Gimblett is worth two hundred and thirty million or that the ringer is worth one hundred seventy million. Mind, yes, Mindaugas Ball's line blogging. And Boggling. All those. And then he continues to say and they aren't worth that much I know because we have similar revenue, and so I know it's a ridiculous multiplier of revenue and quote, which I agree with because I. don't even know why. There's so much valuation to these things now. Maybe it's because of the fee future value. Maybe. It's like in ten year five Maya, whatever I don't know, and then so yeah, and and then he said quote. It's only make sense if you understand spotify as long term strategy to move podcasting away from RSS feed which are hard to monetize to something that exists only on the spotify platform, which is easy to monetize if every podcast had to. To be listened to on spotify. Then spotify knows exactly who's listening and how much they listened. They know the demographics. They have your credit card number. They know everything about you, and then they can go to an advertiser. Let's say like like facebook and Google today. What would you like? We can slice it and dice it. Advertisers want that and they desperately. Desperately in quote Zenit, and it's true and I think that you just always bring that up I know hey, I know one hundred had something to say she showed up. EARS PERK UP WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT YOU ENTER HEY! You're more on the advertising side or you always bring the advertising perspective to this. John Yeah. So what do you think okay so from an advertising perspective? This seems great. Yeah I I. Don't know that I agree with him that it's not worth that clearly worth that or they wouldn't pay it like. Why would they pay it if it wasn't worth that? That doesn't make sense people. There's so many companies that you just pay into stuff, but things never like work out. It's all hype. Dude. I know what spotify is doing. I know. They want to acquire networks for large amounts of money I. Know they want to make deals that people can't say no to, but it's because they have a plan. And that plan is get advertisers for these larger shows and and. They think that they'll make a return on their investment, and if they make these shows like. Sirius xm where you can only like Howard. Stern is a perfect example. You can only consume that now on a serious APP, or if you have siriusxm in your car. That's kind of what they're trying to do. Because then it pay you get subscribers, or you get whatever you need to get and that includes advertisers to so. MAYBE THEY WANNA. Buy The networks so that they don't have to sell via CPM anymore. They can just sell like larger packages with other things attached to it, which is what everybody is? Saying do make you lose money I think I. Think he's talking about like. It's not worth that in what is currently sold as. The doesn't mean not worth that and the big picture as to what they can get. They have this and this and this and this together. Some accents right. Yeah, no, I understand you have all those little pieces coming together. That's what it is, but at this point in time it's does specific like it's not spotify. That's worth that it's the it's the it's. The GIMBLETT is content essentially at least as far as I know. Gimblett is just. Just making podcasts. They don't have anything else. It's two hundred and then the ring, the ring or does have a little bit more. going on the ringer has content, and they have a website. They have a really strong web presence, so I could see that actually being bigger, and also the stars that are in our bigger as well right like they have the ring I think has more well at least sports people that are bigger named. Gimblett, I didn't with yeah, I mean. Yeah, they make podcast, but they're very very popular podcast, and if you can only get them on spotify that means that. Are they though I don't know you would have tell me I don't think so. They're never on the top whatever I mean. If you go, look at the top PODCAST, reply. All is basically the only one that's ever top, and then here's what happens with these podcasts since if they don't get the numbers that they're looking for, they just make them go away right or something. You show that you started. You know how long it takes to build a show, so there's Andrea. Here's Andrea is Andrea. Also, forgetting that he bought the whole network, not just the shows, but the employees you don't just by God cast, and then Gimblett goes on its merry way with two hundred and thirty million dollar check you bought every salary and all their health insurance, and they're building. Their whole thing now belongs with spotify, not just the shows seven shows that may or may not be in the top one hundred. Yeah, so they have the talent. You're correct they can. Because that's what you know, I mean you have to pay for that, too, and at least you know I, don't know maybe they paid for. You know like guaranteeing jobs for two three five years. That would be worth more million dollars. But again this is talking about building a business now. What Andrea is really focusing in on this is Andrew Klunder over here from our. She podcast Super Swat another amazing podcast consultant slash coach and all kinds of other things. She says these were my concerns both listener and producer. Sorry as long as a listener, and and you hate to admit it, but the content that you get is somewhat driven by the needs. Not, by the needs of the. Quote! Hold on as a podcast producer quote eventually there will be three or four companies that own all podcast, and it will be dramatically changed the kind of stuff you listen to small independent hobbies podcast. Do not exist in the world, unless hosts are and I think it stopped. I'm not even sure it was too long for even need to get the rest of it. I don't want my gosh. Words embiid, unfortunately, that could be the case, though just because there could be a show like let's say everybody wants to listen to cheap podcast because we're Su- amazing. But alas, nobody wants to advertise on our show and let's say we're on spotify so. What's the solution? I mean he's thinking of television shows, and how like every network has its own version of a cop show? They have its own version of a funny show. They have their own versions of a game show like that's not because advertisers love game shows. It's because people love game shows, and that's what you have to advertise on. True crime is true crime because people are nosy sons Abe's nosy, nosy, nosy po possibly. Yeah, you're right, and actually you know what I'm going to use this this this bit of data whether or not it's true or not there there could be a little bit of. Conjecture on my part. But in in the Latino podcast listening report crime was. Zero on the list of things that people are listening to and focused. On, CASTORS! It's zero anything. Nothing is high, you can. Extrapolate that maybe it's because the Latino. Population doesn't like it. You could accept. I would actually go for that, but knowing my people. It's probably because there are no true crime podcast that are in Spanish focusing on the type of content that would appeal to minority. They often out Latinas right. They're not all minora they. New. Stories Not as Cool exactly so if somebody were to, you know really an all and I mean I'm probably get in trouble on this. But Alas and lot of our countries. There's all kinds of real horrible things. The see that, too. They're already traumatized enough. Yeah, exactly and then there's all of this horrific things happening from the. From the government, and if you ever say anything, wrong you this fear in quotas. That's what I was thinking bird. It's. True crime went down during the pandemic because it's a little too close for comfort the idea of dying any day now so the. Planet is sort of like an I mean for good reason. It went to a different place. Totally carry, but that can I know. He's full of Shit hoops. It has nothing to do with what listen. People don't walk around going I know why advertiser might like. They listened to what they want to listen to. Advertisers come by. That's IT and has nothing to do with. It doesn't make any sense I mean spotify is world. It makes sense in the sense that if one does well, then five will do even better that they're doing. If they see the the newsworthy is going to do well, they will make ten new shows which kind of. Stupid I. Know I know it's stupid, but this is why every network has a cop show. They're not all good see here. Carey says the problem is when distribution channels become paywall driven meaning. They get a cut of every dollar. You make in order to be on that channel and I think that there's a part of us. That is like giving some of that stuff. As of now, we like the freedom, and then Andrew comes back saying that it's harder and harder for attention funding as an to get attention and funding as an indie. Do we keep growing? Are we GONNA stay static? Does it matter whether or not we can do this? I say yes, I say yes, because I feel. We do still have power to be able to create our own things within our own ecosystem, doing the things that really reach our people outside of these other bubbles, because I do feel that there comes a point and I mean it hasn't happened yet. It has not happened yet, but I feel that it is going. Going to happen particularly, Joe Rogan decides to say something stupid like he says many different times, and there's upheaval coming from all different places I mean. We are headed into like crazy election season. Where it's to everything is going to escalate. He says something slightly out of Line I. Don't know what's going to happen I. Don't know if there's a point where everybody. Who knows everybody decides you know spotify. Get them out. Will they do it? What will they do? What will they do if when he does something terrible? Because he will, he will do it, and it's a matter of like what happens next. Is Somebody going to go? Tell him you know what you should not say that anymore. Area wants no. Basically it's harder and harder to get attention. Funding is an Indie do in these keep growing does matter in our world at all I mean technically no, it doesn't really matter in our world. It does, but it doesn't i. mean if everyone's going, let's I mean. There are some indies that want nothing else than to be on a network or to be bought by spotify or to have huge amounts of advertising dollars, and then they're Indians who just want to be well known in the subject of. They're talking about, and so if you're one of those. It doesn't really matter in your world like like to Elsie and I. It doesn't affect our. Or attention or anything, because not just plug along for podcasters like we don't care what kind we don't care. We just want to be able to serve whoever wants to listen to our show, so. If you do crew a crime show? Show. then. Yeah, yeah, it's an indie show. Chances are it will be well known as long as it's good, so no I. Don't think it affects that either because I know a lot of people that have indie shows that do very very well because they're good and they're not a network that I know of right. And you and there's only some places where you can get it, and I think that there's something really appealing about that. That's what Kerry says she says my hope is that younger consumers aren't going to accept the traditional content models, and I think that that's right I do believe in again going back to the Latino podcast listener report. There was the allure thing. Where discover podcast, and they consume podcast the like without a name. Was Big as big as youtube was everything else was super small, so it was in the thirty percentage points, and that means that people are younger Jenner at least Latinos are listening in over places in what the heck those are could be leaving I was thinking Tiktok what stop you know? Those are places that are shows are not in right now, 'cause it's one mentally ill. You can't listen TIKTOK. It's like a minute long. No, you can't, but you can advertise. And you never know what people are going to be doing so only. We're onto like I. Mean Yeah, let's take dog so who knows but allow that. Is You guys? The link will be in the show. Notes there everybody for you to listen to that on your own? And then I'm GONNA put another link in there. As well about Forbes had an article that said podcast revenue to be up in twenty twenty, and it was based on this study that came out from the Internet Advertising Bureau for the I. Where I ABC. Sorry, that's right. I get that once. Okay. I said got crime. That's right crew and We're are GONNA. Call this show crew, Trimbe. I'm writing this time, k.? I. Oria No. Crew time all right. You go ahead and report on this because this has to do about money, okay? PODCAST revenue to be up in twenty twenty, according to Forbes podcasting another source of information something to do during our extensive time at home, due to the pandemic recent data from a national online survey I conducted in June. This is just the writer reported that twenty percent of American adults were listening to podcasts at least once a week or more, including those who? Who listen every day, seven percent, the and pricewaterhouse. Cooper recently released their annual study podcast. Advertising Revenue Study for twenty twenty. It predicts a podcast advertising revenue will increase by almost fifteen percent, nearing one billion in two thousand and twenty now interestingly y'all, interestingly, though they had originally predicted thirty percent, but because of the hand off pulled it down. So in many cases, advertising has been hit hard by the impacts of the pandemic can stay at home. Orders travel hospitality retail. The upheavals been huge, and so the study are an example of where advertising has been. The most robust digital advertising is being less negatively impacted, because everyone is still digital. In two hundred, two, thousand, nineteen, they estimated revenue would be seven, hundred and eight, million, twenty eighteen. Hundred seventy nine million, so you can see that they expect it to like double and this year fifty percent is. Not much. So nonetheless, podcasts have been come on the platform for advertising which. Way To catch up people. The top content on podcasts was news twenty two comedy Seventeen Society culture thirteen percent. That used to be business. True Crime and I think health, and I think health should still be up there actually. According to Lipson survey health is up there, too, but does not make sense, news, comedy, society, and culture because that's where we need right now all those things. The highest earning podcasts was Joe Rogan with thirty million dollars in advertising. After that my favorite murder with fifteen Dave Ramsey with ten DAX shepard with armchair expert at nine and the Bill Simmons podcast was seven, and that's not their salary. It's just how much they are raking in an advertising I. Mean Hernandez that it'll grow faster than any other form of media this year, but that's still does not mean it's going to. To skills where they thought it would still interesting, though he yeah I mean it's I mean I. Guess If you put it with the other advertising like advertising and all of these other verticals. To see the percentage rise of. Them maybe podcasting. The largest growth versus like print or verses like online banner, ads or something like that or maybe TV ads. That might be smaller. Is My only thought, but finally I don't know if you WANNA. Do the loop de loop for this. We could certainly just stick it in the later. Weird and wild. Weird and wild show of the week. I put I went to put this in here and you put it in here so I was super excited Michelle. Is launching her own podcast because, but alas, though is it really a podcast? Harder. Because, it's going to be spotify. Not just television show show. It's a show. She has her own audio. Show it. This is what robb calls it. It's a spoke cast the hell's that. It's on sponsored by. This bowl podcast spoke cast. It's not a podcast. It's this because you can't listen to it on what anything other than spotify that doesn't mean so. Does that mean? He calls all the podcasts on. audibles awed casts. Are. They wonder cast. Wondering has them you can subscribe to wandering shows anywhere. Audible audible are audible. I forgot the name of them. They haven't been able a little catchy name. Audible origin, still audible originals those are not podcast. They're not. You can't Subscri- so. The RSS feed. Okay, so they're not so August now this is a podcast. Our show is a pot I'm. Long. Yes Michelle Obama we call podcast. An Obama Obama cast, we can call it an Obama Obama podcast. Let's not mince words. We're not changing the. Listening. Months ago or a year ago. Six months. Six months ago or a year ago, he was all up in arms about changing. The name of podcast is something else because the pack? The other podcasters didn't want to call it that anymore. They wanted to call it. Something new and everybody was pissing and moaning about the fact that like they were trying to change everything, but now spotify has podcast now. It's a spoke cast and we have to rename it all. It's also we're making fun. Is being gone. Oh, my God! It's a frigging podcast. Don't even get me started. Show I'm a slight you. Show, it's an episodic show. It's a show. Now. Outside of whatever all right, so but but congratulations Michelle Obama. And she podcast, would you join us in? She podcasts even if you have a spoke cast, right but. We love you and I will be subscribing and I can't wait to listen, and she did a wonderful thing when she launched, she had this beautiful little intro video that everybody loved and I assume that you can go into spotify and sign up I don't even know I. Have No idea I haven't opened up. I mean I. Haven't gone in there. Well, not for listening disagrees for not gonNA. Talk, right, you're right. We're GONNA talk about that right now, because no, because we're. And I'll ask. We have come to the end of the show. I think we've done a pretty decent job y'all can't invite the supersede. We can invite. Mrs Obama. Mrs Obama has a standing invitation to be part of Arshi podcast super squad. She gets all the things. Yes, as does Amy Schumer and anyone else on her show. On a ferris anyone on her show. All the people that you just woman? I guess right, okay. All Right? Thank you guys so much for listening today. If you want any of the links that we talked about today, you can find them on. She podcast DOT com. Please take a minute and follow us on Facebook, twitter and Instagram at she podcast. If you have any comments today about the show or anything, we brought up including hamburger towels. Please send us an email at feedback at she podcast dot com that is in for today. Love you me mine.

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More and More People in Jails and Prisons Are Dying of COVID-19 2020-05-05

The Takeaway

45:56 min | 1 year ago

More and More People in Jails and Prisons Are Dying of COVID-19 2020-05-05

"The Corona virus is quickly spreading through jails and prisons around the country even in solitary confinement on death row. They feel that the prison system can't adequately take care of them. I'm should meet the best zoo. In for tenzing Vega and for today on the takeaway Tuesday may fifth we check in on how incarcerated people are being hit especially hard by Kobe? Nineteen then we bring you an exclusive story on conditions inside one of the largest immigration. Jails in the country. Jimmy said you know demand better provision and so the the correctional staff responded using pepper spray and ball munition. Also a look at Georgia's reopening and if the state's public health is ready and we round out the show talking about life after ovid and what we should ditch when all of this is over what I want us to leave behind is shaking hands and hugging strangers. We're taking your calls at eight seven seven eight by takes. Let's get going as states around the country start to open back up. Many of us are still trying to keep our social distance but for the millions of Americans in jails and prisons. That's practically impossible on this show. We've been covering conditions inside jails and prisons around the country before Colbert nineteen and now months into the pandemic. The number of positive cases and the number of deaths is continuing to rise in these facilities just last week. The Bureau of Prisons reported that over seventy percent of federal prisoners tested were positive for covert nineteen and those are only the people who were tested which means there could be many more that have the virus. Local law enforcement has been more cautious about introducing New People into jails but in jail complexes like rikers island in New York. So far three inmates and nine staff members had died of the disease a directive from Attorney General Bill Bar to begin releasing. Federal prisoners has caused confusion about the problem and how to address it to keep inmates and staff safe. We have two guests with US. That have been following this closely. Danny Rivero is a reporter and producer for wwl an public radio in Florida and carry. Blake and injure is a staff writer at the Marshall Project. Hi Danny Hi Carrie. I should meet the hi. Thanks for having me of course. Thanks for being cured. Danny I wanNA start with you. Can you walk us through the different conditions in facilities in the Miami Dade area? What are you seeing so far right so here in Miami Dade County in the State of Florida? We have the biggest local county jail population on a normal day. There's about four thousand inmates and you know that number has come down a little bit. Because officials have been taking some steps to to kind of draw down the the population in the local. Jails but as of today. We have over three hundred inmates in the in in these facilities that have tested positive for covert nineteen and there's one facility in particular The Metro West jail. That has Just just over a hundred sixty inmates in that. That facility is now part of a federal lawsuit Where a federal judge has now mandated the the county to provide all sorts of sanitary equipment and whatnot for for inmates in that facility. Just over the weekend. We learned that The first inmate in the in the jail system here has died and we're waiting on the medical examiner to confirm that was co it That that causes a matter of the death but we know that the inmate had tested positive for Cohen. Nineteen in Kerry. You've been reporting on federal prisons. How the spread of covert nineteen unfolded in federal facilities. Federal facilities. Like a lot of other places have been facing a lot of criticism. I sort of handling it or or not taking seriously soon enough and as of now there's nineteen hundred federal inmates who who are testing positive for Kobe. And there's been thirty eight deaths. They're not reporting any staff member deaths which is baffling because it seems that you know there has been local reporting indicating that there. Hartman staff member deaths But you know regardless. It's clearly still something that's ongoing and. I think we have a long way to go in some of these prisons especially the larger systems like the federal system. And you know where I live here in Texas right and you've done a lot of reporting work there in Texas do prisons and Facilities. There have enough supplies. Do they have what they need to fight the spread of the virus? Defense you ask you what do you mean? I mean that you know. Prison officials told me that they've had and ninety five masks around. They had I think one hundred thousand of them since the beginning of the year but on the ground actually talking to officers they're telling me that it's really inconsistent some units. Now have them but people who were doing hospital transports don't consistently have the PCP. They need I talked to one person who an officer who had done a transport with someone who confirmed positive and was in the hospital and they had a. This officer had a face shield to share with her partner. You know to to officers face shield one coughing infected prisoner and this is sort of to me when a more Greece's examples but I mean I've heard a lot of things like this so it seems that even if they do have the equipment there seems to be some with actually getting out to where it's needed. Danny you're in Florida. Can you give us a picture of what prisons look? Lake outside of the Miami Dade area. What do we know about the severity of this problem? Statewide Florida has the third largest prison system. The state prison system in the country and so far we have seven reported deaths. That have happened in in Florida. Prisons with inmates have contracted covert nineteen. There's almost four hundred prisoners that have tested positive for it. Almost two hundred staff that have tested positive for you know a lot of the issues that are happening here in Florida tend to be happening inside of private prisons. The first two deaths that happened here was up in the panhandle. You know not far from Alabama and that was in an facility that was run by Geo Group of very large private prison contractor and there is a special amount of controversy in in that case because the data the inmates were not made public for almost a week afterwards and it was only after some reporters started poking around the actually got that information from the medical examiner's office in that county that the public learn about it. My we do have as of now from what's been made public seven deaths at that have Happened which is pretty high actually for state prison system. You know a place like California. I believe has had only had one death in their prison system so it does seem to be spreading rather quickly here in Florida. In April attorney. General Bill Bar sent a letter to officials running federal prisons ordering them to maximize the release of the most medically vulnerable prisoners to home confinement to try and prevent the spread of the virus Kerry. What has happened in the weeks since the Attorney General gave that directive? So there's been a lot of back and forth on this and a lot of confusion over what exactly that means and who exactly eligible and one of the big points of the just been contentious has been whether or not need to serve fifty percent of your sentence because the guidance changed on that and interpretation of the guidance has changed on that. So I'm talking to a lot of families and a lot of prisoners. Who were told that they would be able to go home in? Some cases signed release papers in some cases were sent to fourteen day quarantine because they're doing a fourteen day quarantine before release and then taken out of quarantine and told actually never mind and they hadn't served of their sentence was the issue here. Danny seeing a difference in the way that jails and prisons are handling the crisis. The short answer is yes the majority of people that are sitting in county jails across. The country have not actually been convicted of any crime. These are decisions that are largely made on the front end of a criminal case. And so what we've seen happening here in. Florida is a lot of basically. There's an agreement with the Sheriff's Association and this has trickled down to virtually every county that I've been able to look at where sheriff's offices police departments are making fewer arrests and the reason for that is that they are trying to bring fewer people into the jail systems in the first place. The fear is that someone that you might bring into jail one day might have covert nineteen and then that would further spread inside the system so police have been you know issuing simple citations giving promises to appear in kind of tackling it from From the front end because they have that Authority to to make that determination on the front end of a sentence in prison. It's a little bit more complicated. Because the person who's in there has already been sentenced to something and then that changes the calculation a little bit security. What do we know about the number of people who've actually been released from federal prisons to home confinement so as when we looked at this a little bit over a week ago for the Marshall Project? There were only about a thousand people who've been sent home under the guidance which is half percent of the federal prison population. So it's really a drop in the bucket. I understand that there have been multiple lawsuits around the country by people who are incarcerated. Can you tell us about some of those lawsuits? If any of stood out to you the there have been number of them One of the ones that said most recently had an update was on Friday. Texas death row prisoners filed a lawsuit and they also filed to intervene an existing lawsuit from other Texas prisoners. But I mean it was striking to me that even in solitary confinement on death row they feel that the prison system can't adequately take care of them. That alone is pretty stark. And you know some of the things they're asking for so basic they're asking for consistent access to running water and soap. They're not asking to get out there not asking off of death row. They're just asking to be cared for better. And one of the things. They bring up in their lawsuit. Which hasn't gotten a lot of attention. Is that you also have an extremely high needs population in some parts of prison systems like severely delusional mentally. Ill We have people that hallucinate demons and snakes who are generally captain solitary confinement. It's not clear that they can understand. What a pandemic is or how they're supposed to protect themselves setting aside the fact that the officers may or may not tell them because going around and telling individual cells on death row how to protect yourself from pandemic is you know probably not a priority for them and even if you do some of them are extremely mentally impaired so I mean there are some serious concerns that that lawsuit raises. Danny what are you expecting to see in the weeks and months to come in facilities in Florida? The numbers don't look good for the state prison system. They they've gone up considerably just over the last week in the local. Jails here in Miami Dade County almost doubled so you know it's just it's the nature of confinement in a in a of being trapped within four walls you know the the ability to social distance is very limited. There's thousands of inmates across the state that are currently in Medical Corinthian and the state governments issued a lot of statements about it saying they're they're tackling it and whatnot but Aside from from mass releases which there doesn't seem to be an appetite for. It's pretty clear at this point that there is going to continue to be spread within different kinds of facilities that local and state level and It's a little bit of fingers. Crossed is honestly part of my assessment Kerry reporting on conditions in jails and prisons is never particularly easy. I can imagine it might be even more difficult during pandemic over the course of your reporting how you manage to find information about what's actually happening inside. Well I mean. I've had a lot of families that reach out to me but it's also interesting that I think that some prisons because they're not interested in doing so searches as much right now have more access to contraband phones And I think this is true across many different prison systems. I also think that people are a little more desperate a little more willing to reach out to reporters whether that's through traditional means of you know written letters or some cases like it's pretty easy to get calls from federal prison if they have access to the legitimate phone system so I think that in some cases people are more likely to reach out right now because they're so desperate you know normally the the fear retaliation and the concerns about talking. The media can be assembling block for some people in terms of not wanting to reach out but right now things are so dire that I'm hearing a lot more. I mean it's just been a constant fire hose of tragedy. Basically Danny Rivero is a reporter and producer for wwl. Rn public radio. In Florida and carry blake injure is a staff writer at the Marshall Project Danny Carey. Thank you both so much travelling. Thanks now from Kobe. Nineteen in jails and prisons to house diseases affecting one immigration center on all that in the mid one. This is the first day of possible. Call the nineteen half past one merger emergency high home but then he's not those are nine one one calls from the Stuart Detention Center in rural Georgia one of the biggest immigration and customs enforcement facilities in the US. Stewart is run by a private prison company called for civic and houses migrant detainees and asylum seekers. We've heard from detainees that in that facility like so many others across the country covert nineteen has been spreading fast. Seems like since all this began. We've been quarantined. Can't go outside or anything. I don't feel well at night. I feel like I can't breathe well and asked for help. Some time ago the staff has not given me medical attention or given the medicine and like myself. There are other people. Detained here aren't getting medical attention. So immigrants have demanded better conditions and more protection in the face of this pandemic in response correctional staff at Stewart have used force on them twice in two weeks. The officers involved from a secretive unit in the facility deployed to keep detainees in check and social media posts from members of this unit. Reveal potential pattern of alleged bias and misconduct toward detainees. Jose Alvarez takeaway producer has been reporting on this in conjunction with the intercept so we saw to protests break out in its week time span amid the Kobe pandemic and they both have been related to conditions inside the facility so the first protest took place on April ninth and this is when people detained started protesting because they were worried that people inside their units were not getting sufficient healthcare treatment of medical treatment and medical attention necessary with others who were showing symptoms of Copen nineteen. The second protests happened on April twentieth at nights people detained were alleging that they were getting very little food at a very late hour and when the very little food kind of came in closer to nine ten PM Ginny said you know we refuse to eat this. We demand better food. We demand better provision and so the the correctional staff responded with force using pepper and pepper ball ammunition Now you've actually been in touch with some of the detainees there right. Yeah Yes oh spoken with eight people who are currently detained in Stewart's and I've also been in touch with six family members in to people who were formerly detained so I've been getting a lot of information of us to kind of wet conditions are looking like inside and what they're alleging is pretty grim They're saying basically about symptoms were rapidly spreading about the units. Have Sixty to ninety people in there and that it's practically impossible to to practice any sort of social distancing in their people are getting very very desperate because of symptoms and conditions inside the facility. I spoke with one man who told me the following. There was a man in this unit. Who fainted this morning? And the medics game in the afternoon. He fainted again and the medics game again and now he fell on the floor again. We told the officer. We call the medics and they took him again. But we don't know to where. Oh Wow so jose. Do we know if there's been anything? Similar happening. In other detention facilities during this pandemic in isolated around the country is really really bubbling up. And it's really kind of exploding. Are we seeing hunger strikes and protests in facilities all over the US? We've also seen use of force incidence different facilities as well from Louisiana to Texas to Arizona and Just last week actually in in Massachusetts okay so in the case of Stewart you reported that this secretive four step. Then what does that secret of force so the sort team is the special operations response team. It's a group of highly trained correctional staff Whose job it is is basically to sort of put down and repressed any sort of disturbance inside the facility their normal correctional staff. And when there's any sort of disturbance they change into outfits that are basically all black they essentially act like a swat team. They're trying to use shields helmets pepper spray batons pepper ball munition up but they are employees of the private company. Core Civic and they are trained by the company for these sort operations and the use of force operations. So does that mean that. This is happening at other facilities that core civic overseas. Maybe the use. These teams is usually mostly associated with prisons or very large jails not typically associated with immigration detention. Which like I said as for civil cases not necessarily criminal cases right so it seems lack based on the reporting the Stewart Attention. Sort officers were being trained at other core civic facilities that were either jails or prisons in the south and did the actions of these officers constitute a use of force beyond what you would expect in a situation like this according to social media posts from some of these sort officers that we saw in court filings. I mean some of the use of force seems to be pretty intense. I mean there was. One migrant detainees who was allegedly pepper sprayed shot with pepper volume munition on April twentieth and the social media posts. Show that he was in a wheelchair and he. He was forced to go onto the ground. The social media posts sort of alluded to the fact that maybe he was shot with pepper balls in the face. Right pretty gruesome aggressive actions in these facilities to sort of put down any sort of protests that activists and advocates claim is peaceful. So this is out there on social media. You're saying that some of the members of this sort force Were posting about it on where facebook twitter right so on facebook members of Georgia detention. Watch which is a detain migrants at St Organization. Found some of these posts on facebook and shared them with me. I'm basically we were able to independently verify that's for months. These sort officers were sort of joking about kind of talking about use of force in the facility and some of these posts are can be pretty disturbing after the April ninth pepper spray incident. There was a cheap at the basilica who posted a photo of his boots and he said Oh today I was ready to stomp and drag than another sort officer shared a very graphic video of a man in a chokehold who is being beaten by sticks and he shared that video posted next time they activate sorts and showed it with laughing emojis and then after the April twentieth incidents officers joked about how they were shooting pepper spray. Pepper spray pepper Munition on eighteen. Who's WHO's on wheelchairs. So these are some very interesting facebook posts that were just out there. joking and kind of discussing the use of force in the facility that that was taking place so has there been any response from Stewart from core civic or even from ice about this use of force yes I spoke with the individual sort members that are mentioned in the story and they all basically referred my comments. They didn't say anything on the record and refer comments to core civic same with the award and at the facility and and basically after we sent a long email detailing are reporting to core. Civic informed us. That's These correctional officers in question were placed on administrative leave from the facility and that an office and internal office with ice call. The office of professional responsibility was going to be looking in an investigating to see if there was any alleged misconduct that place and with these social media posts but also core civic and they've they've denied that there's delays in providing medical attention to folks and Diesel they've been complying with the guidelines. The key people in detention in their custody safe. So what happens next for this specific facility for Stewart and for other immigrant detention facilities around the country or their calls for change absolutely yes yes so migrant advocacy organizations and attorneys and human rights organizations around the country even even the United Nations have spoken out about conditions in ice detention centers Now a couple of weeks ago a federal judge ruled that ice should consider releasing detainees. Who are most at risk on? There's also a lawsuit filed specific the against Stuart's from the Southern Poverty Law Center seeking the release of vulnerable detainees. I mean the population in the past few weeks at the facility has dropped almost two fifty four percent of what its capacity is so Pressure seems to be bouncing. Time will tell what's going to happen. Jose Olivarez is an associate producer with the takeaway. You can find his full investigation on the takeaway dot org and on the intercept dot com and a quick update to the story since we recorded this interview for civic said that three additional employees were placed on administrative leave because of our reporting and four other staff members have been fired all this week. We're looking at the reopening process here in the US as more and more states roll back measures they put in place due to covert nineteen. Georgia is one of the first states to do so. Here's Governor Brian. Kemp on April twenty fourth. We will allow gyms fitness centers bowling alleys body art studios barbers cosmetologists hair designers nail care artist s decisions their respective schools and massage therapist to reopen their doors. This past Friday kemp took it a step further and lifted. The state's stay at home order from most of Georgia's residence. The exception is for people who are elderly or considered medically fragile. They need to shelter in place until at least June twelfth. For more on this I spoke to Dr Harry Hyman a public health professor at Georgia State University and Dr Karen Landman a practicing physician epidemiologist and journalist who reports on medicine and public health based in Atlanta. Here's what Karen told me about the scope of the pandemic in Georgia. So far we have had a progressively increasing number of cases over the course of the pandemic the worst affected areas of Georgia do seem to be sort of smaller. Urban areas where there's a lot of concentrated poverty and a lot of folks sharing a lot of space and also a a difficulty of information penetrating those spaces and resources penetrating those spaces We have been deeply affected in Georgia. But it's not the same all across the state and Harry. We talked a bit about. What's behind the push to reopen states on our show yesterday so what has state leadership in Georgia said about why they want to ease restrictions. Now I think it's important to understand that question in the context of Georgia and Georgia both politics and policies Georgia kind of prides itself on this mantra of being number one for business so the the state has a long history of making policy decisions that give preferential treatment to business without really considering the impact on workers and particularly the the lives and livelihoods of low income workers. Just as an example Georgia's still has a minimum wage of five dollars and fifteen cents now. Fortunately the federal level which takes precedence is higher than that but it gives you a sense of historically how Georgia has valued workers pickety low income workers relative to business. So I think we have a long history of prioritizing the economy and business over the health and wellness of both employees and communities in general and I think unfortunately that that's kind of a false choice but we're seeing that happening all over the country where governors and others are deciding. Do I do. What's best for public health or do I do? What's best for the economy without recognizing that those are intimately tied together and the only way to save the open the economy and have it sustainably. Stay Open is to address and have a plan in place to address the public health crisis. Well Karen the governor. Brian Kemp said that his decision to reopen was based on what he called favourable data. What was the data that he was referring to there? He was referring to what appeared to be to the naked eye a downward slope in cases over the days two week preceding his announcement. Now it's important to understand that just by its very nature. Corona virus data has a lag built into it the way we record data now in port data now in Georgia is by the date of symptom onset. So let's say I start having symptoms today. I might wait a couple of days to get tested. It might take a couple more days for that test result and then a couple more days for that result to get reported to the state so you automatically have something like a five to seven day. Minimum data lag built in to all of this testing data. If you look now at the data from the days he made that announcement it already looks like we are at minimum seeing a plateau in cases and more likely an increase in cases in the days before. So you can't rely on data from the past week or two to make any decisions you need to build the lag into your thinking when you're making these decisions so I I really don't understand how he felt that the data on which he was basing his decision suggested any clear evidence of downward slope in cases. I think the notion that public policy is data driven is a misconception. I think we see policies at federal state and local levels every day that that don't seem to be aligned with what we know and what we know works. I think unfortunately when you continue that practice during a pandemic it literally has life and death implications so the stay at home order in Georgia was lifted on Friday Karen what was the first weekend like? I don't know I was home the whole time. But you know we see pictures and we read reports of people out and about. I saw video of Jackson Street Bridge. Which is a bridge. People might remember seeing from the walking dead people crammed together on this bridge the way they might be for New Year's Eve fireworks. It just seems that this is sent the signal to a lot of people that it's all over and you can go out and do whatever you want Karen you mentioned testing earlier and I just want to briefly touch on two of the criteria that states are considering as they reopen which has testing capacity and contact tracing. Tell us how Georgia's doing with both of those things so Georgia has improved testing capacity. It's not yet at the place where everybody throughout the state and you know that we're all employers can get testing at will Contact tracing. I also know that our state is hiring contact tracers. I don't know exactly what their timeline is for rolling that out. You know some states have already begun doing contact tracing like Massachusetts. I know a lot of states. Most states are hiring for this right now. So you know the right time to cautiously reopened is when you have all of those things in place everywhere and everybody can feel as secure as everybody else in the state that if they start to have concern about a hotspot of infection in their community or in their business that they can close things down appropriately test and isolated warranty and people. You know in have quick access to healthcare for those folks. There's a little bit of a public misconception about about testing and there's been too much focus on number of tests and while a number of tests is an important metric reflecting the capacity of the states to to really be were states need to be. They have to have adequate testing capacity for every community in every part of the state and Georgia for example stood up forty-nine Dr Engenders across the state in have mobile Dr Centers in some of the rural areas. And all that is great but the reply barrier to entry is access to a car. So if you don't have a private car or access to wine in those situations access to testing how're you mentioned earlier? The sort of tension between the governor and some of the municipalities in this choice to reopen. And I know that the governor is facing some backlash from most notably the mayor of Atlanta. What does the governor's decision mean for counties for municipalities like Atlanta? That may have had their own measures in place or may have wanted to put their own measures in place. What it means is they're having to work against a powerful counter narrative coming from the government or that. It's okay to use things up when people hear that message from what they perceived to be a trusted authority it sends signs and signals to him. About what behavior is okay. So it means that in places like Metro Atlanta where we know there are still significant community spread or places like Albany in southwest Georgia the surrounding counties where where they've been devastated. It means that they don't have the ability at a local level to make decisions based on what they're seeing on the ground and they have to rely on messages to people about what's appropriate behavior and trying to provide direction and guidelines to employers About what is what isn't isn't appropriate. Both in terms of opening and about what needs to be put in place to protect not only their employees but also customers in the public. These are also decisions that are on the backs of black and Brown communities. Not only in Georgia but across the country if you look geographically who's being disproportionately impacted in New York City and across the country. It's African American communities and other communities of color so I don't want listeners to think that this is a uniquely Georgia problem but but if you look at the data from Georgia African Americans make up about thirty percent of the State Population and comprise the majority of deaths from corona virus and in thinking about the repercussions of reopening and who that will impact the most. I'm also wondering what this means for the owners of those small businesses. I mean Karen. Can you talk to this? How are they responding to the governor's decision? And what kind of position does this put them in just puts them in an absolutely terrible position. They are forced to make a choice. That is best for the public's health without having any better data than our governor does and also without really having the understanding of what what's best for their community they really can. Can they can try You know and they can certainly hold two things in their head at the same time that you know there. There are two kinds of pain here. There two kinds of severe impact that they're choosing between but they're really having to make a choice that they should not be having to make. This is why we have government. This is why we have the whole ability to have input from around the state. This is why we have representation and why we have public health authorities so they can take decision out of the hands of individual business owners whose livelihood is understandably their highest priority and making a decision collectively best for everybody. What are some of the biggest lessons that other states could learn from looking at how Georgia has chosen to reopen? Try not to make politics and political gain the center of your communications nor the center of your decision. Making this is a human disaster on a grand scale. And it's just not the time for faffing around with political grievances whether you are a community member and a neighbor of somebody who who's trying to struggle with these big questions or a governor of a of a state. The first responsibility of government is the safety insecurity in protection communities and until you have a plan resources and infrastructure in place to ensure the safety security and healthy of your communities. You shouldn't go forward with opening things back up. And I think the requirement to that plan or well known and the requirements includes targeted policies and strategies to those communities that you know are being proportionately impact. Dr Harry. Hyman is a public health professor at Georgia State University and Dr Karen Landman is a practicing physician epidemiologist and journalist based in Atlanta. Thank you both for joining us. I'm the best sue in for tenzing Vega and you're listening to the takeaway shaking hands Unnecessary in person meetings buffets. Those are just some of the things that New York Times bestselling author Lovey. Aja Jones has on her ditch list for when we go back to our routines post pandemic in her viral piece for Zora a publication on medium for by and about women of Color. Lovey wrote that. When we do return to work and to our post Cova daily life. Our sense of normal will be forever changed by this pandemic. So what should we keep? And what should we ditch just here? We don't want you anymore. I spoke with lovey. Who's the author of? I'm judging. You and asked her why. She sees the global timeout as an opportunity. First of all a lot of people were facing a burn out from just running themselves ragged because the world has caused us to constantly be on the go. So I'm like I feel like it's an opportunity for us to figure out. Okay that's slow down that you probably wanted. Of course you didn't want it to come with a whole pandemic but we are now sitting at home. We now have the time and hopefully the space to do the thing that we were looking forward to doing or even catching up on sleep you know. So on that level. It's definitely opportunity for people to figure out what they need to be doing that. It's going to fulfill them. Serve them. You know make them recharge their batteries. So yeah so. Let's start with the ditch list. What do you think we will leave behind as a society after this pandemic what? I want us to leave behind. Shaking hands and hugging strangers. Like shaking hands by itself is like a greeting as a cultural greeting. I already was like really like it because think about it. We all have different standards of hygiene and we're finding out now that a lot of people aren't properly washing their hands like they haven't been and just as a habit so we're all constantly exchanging GERMS BHAI assistant on shaken hands. It doesn't really serve us. Can we just you know. Bow Curtsey Kinda forever. I'm fine with that. There's other ways to greet each other. That does not involve. Let me put my palm your palm so my my mom from Iran and Iranian culture is big on the kiss on the cheeks. Like usually they'll do to kisses on the cheek as a greeting and sometimes even three kisses on the cheek alternating cheeks. Are we ever going to go back to that? Yeah I mean I can be okay with their but I'm okay with that for people who I know in love. I think a lot of US need human touch. Of course I think humans need contact. I think especially business settings things like shaking hands and hugging. We can do away with but of course when you see your loved one. We you see your friend absolutely. Let's hug it out but it's like Oh this is somebody who I just met now. We're like mashing wastes now. I think we should get rid of that. She weighs so on twitter. Zora MAG tweeted out. What else should we leave behind? Yeah and over a thousand people chimed in there. Yeah I feel like one thing that lots of people were saying to leave behind from all. This is even the concept of of offices and going into the office and especially commuting because a lot of people are commuting by. Subways are if you're commuting on public transportation a lot of people. It seemed in that twitter response. Where saying I think we could. I think we could leave that so I don't agree with that. Oh why I worked from. I worked myself. I work from home but really I. I work from the world basically because I travel a lot. I think what we're also realizing especially with this. Everybody locked in their houses offices. Even though it's not required for every business we don't have to go into the office five days a week. I do think we still need base where people can can co work together in some way I think is isolation is she showed us that you know what it actually is. Good too sometimes. See other people in the creative space. So I'm saying I think we shouldn't necessarily completely get rid of the concept of going into the office of community but I think it's going to be reimagined will love you said you like to travel. Someone suggested that we leave behind middle seats on airplanes which I thought was kind of a good one. I can support that. Actually saw a graphic of what they said. It would look like if they decide to do that. I'm fine with that because already planes. We are packed on top of each other. Middle seats are miserable. Someone suggested I like even the little things that people were saying. We might consider leaving behind. Someone said blowing out birthday candles and a lot of people like that comment. I guess the season pretty messy blow outside. Agreed because when you're blown cake depend on. How many candles there are. You Bassi spitting on the Kate. I think there should be a little piece of the cake that's cut out for the celebrants to blow out. That nobody else touches them. The rest of the cake less not have it be the candle all over it. Yeah no I'm I'm I'm a fan of that. What about the flip side? What have we been doing more of during this time that maybe we should try and hold onto. I love how we're all staying connected to those. We love you know because we have braved. Go outside because we have to see anybody. We're actually making sure to connect with friends that we haven't talked to in a long time like we're video chatting more regularly with our loved ones. We're doing family group chats that which which we never did before and I think there's some there's so much value in that human to human connection. We are also understanding that the things that we took for granted which is being able to hug our family. Our friends our parents. We can't take it for granted the next time we can the next time. We get out of this foolishness. We won't be like you also see my mom. I'm going to skip on it today. We're going to run over there so that whole staying connected to those. We love is something that when we are out of this we have to hold. Dear continued to hold dear. You also mentioned that Thanking essential workers should continue post pandemic. That's something that it seems like. A lot of people have been reminded of in this moment. How do we keep people connected to this idea when the pandemic isn't front and center anymore? Unfortunately what we value what we value the most. Are things like entertainment and you know we value business leaders which valuable I understand we have. We take for granted the people who are underpaid but essential to make our lives easier to make our lives even work you know. The Nurses Doctors Lab Techs Grocery store workers even morticians right and for us. I think it's a cultural reckoning so also remind us that when even before this we should have been very grateful for essential workers and especially after this. We need to make sure that we do not relegate them to the margins of society we do not under compensate them. We don't take their work for granted. And how we keep that in mind is honestly. I think we're going to have to make some halls sweeping changes. How much are we paying them can do? They have the shouldn't just be getting a living wage. They should be able to thrive in their lives as they are putting themselves on the line every single day to serve the greater community. So we we gotta keep that same grateful energy and I think when all of this is done we all have to reflect on how we thought right now like we. We need to kind of keep tabs on on how this moment felt and then go back to it when we feel like we're losing sight of it My guest is Lovey Ajayi Jones. She's a New York Times bestselling author of the book. I'm judging you thank you so much for being with us. Levy thank you for having me and have been hearing from you about the changes daily life that you'd like to keep around and those that you're eager to throw away when this is all over. Hi this is Mary from Philadelphia. I'm trying harder to overcome my insomnia so that I can keep my immune system in the best possible shape. I don't think I'm ever going to resume shaking hands or if I do it'll be maybe a couple of years from now and also I'm GONNA be washing my hands more frequently or using sanitizer more frequently. Hi My name is Karen and I'm calling from Massachusetts. I hope to leave behind the hustle and bustle racing from one thing to the next is hard. It's been to be isolated. I live alone and I wish my kids and my grandkids my friends and my coworkers but I have appreciated the opportunity to slow down a bit Steve. From Borden Town New Jersey. My lifetime most likely will not be returning to restaurant is also as we used to. I just don't see how wants to be around large groups of people anytime soon. Julie's Hopkins Minnesota my pre coded state was working all the time and now that I have been five weeks. Out of work due to state mandated closure of my type of business as a massage therapist. I have had plenty of time to instill some great self care practices like daily meditation cooking for myself going on daily walks and taking care of both my physical and mental well-being and I hope to keep my code resolutions Once I do get back to work here hopefully in a few weeks here in Minnesota my name is Carmen Martorell. I'm calling from New York City. I have not ridden subways or buses since the beginning of the pandemic and I will continue not to do that now as I do. Not Think it's safe and the subways and buses are overcrowded. No matter what time of the day or night you ride on them and until there is a dramatic change scheduled frequency and the cleanliness. I could not even consider. This is a question and my wife. And I get closer to my mid Seventies. I have to be careful even though I'm very healthy for six years I've been substitute high. School teacher can't plan to continue since I love doing it but now I wonder type retired again until there's axiom very effective drugs to treat because I came. I expect where mass say. Wait from people. Shaking hands will be difficult not to do call and give us your thoughts. You can leave a message at eight. Seven seven eight my take. Thanks for listening during these times. I'm Shumita Basu in for Tenzin Vega and this is the takeaway see you tomorrow.

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Combating the Virtual Spread of COVID-19 Misinformation 2020-05-12

The Takeaway

59:05 min | 1 year ago

Combating the Virtual Spread of COVID-19 Misinformation 2020-05-12

"With so many media platforms out there. Information is not in short supply. Neither is Miss Information. We saw a lot of conspiracy theories and hoaxes about the source of the so this is misinformation about the the virus being created in the lab or being created as a bioweapon. I'm the best sue and today on the takeaway for Tuesday may twelfth. How the noise is overwhelming. The signal plus maternity wards are disappearing in predominantly black neighborhoods across the country. You cannot ignore race. You cannot ignore gender socioeconomic status you cannot ignore type of community someone lives in we. Give them care. We're GONNA talk about it and we round out the show by chatting with some old friends. The takeaways former movie date hosts give us some good suggestions for what we can watch during this stressful time. The suggestions yourself. Eight seven seven eight. My take is our number. Let's get to it last week. A Corona virus conspiracy video called plan damage was released on line. It's filled with inaccurate information and advice. That goes against just about everything. Medical experts have told the public about covert nineteen in the nearly thirty minute video judy. Mike Averts discredited research scientists espouses a number of conspiracy theories against Dr Anthony Fauci multiple public health agencies vaccines and she refutes the benefits of Masks of washing your hands and of social distancing. Why would you close the beach? You've got sequences in the soil in the sand. You've got healing microbes in the ocean in the saltwater. That's insanity that's a clip from planned dynamic in which Mike of its tells viewers that beaches should have remained open during the pandemic for unscientific reasons that experts say have no basis in fact. Science magazine actually did a big fat check on Mike of its recently and we have that link on our website for you to check out yourself still. The video apparently struck a chord with many Americans and within days it had been watched tens of millions of times and Mike visas book became a bestseller on Amazon Youtube and facebook have taken the video down because of its falsehoods. But it's massive. Spread came at a moment when getting clear accurate health information to the public was crucial and the spread of misinformation. At a time. Like this can be costly. We've got two people on the line to discuss the spread of misinformation around Kobe. And why it matters emily. Braga is an associate professor in the Hubbard School of Journalism and mass communication at the University of Minnesota. Thank you for being here emily. Thank you for having me and Daniel Funky a staff writer covering online misinformation for political fact. It's good to have you here to Daniel. Hi thanks for having me so emily. How you and your colleagues define misinformation so misinformation is probably best categorized as information that is considered accurate based on the best available evidence from relevant experts at the time Daniel. I know that you've been tracking Cova related misinformation for politic fact. What trends have you noticed? Emerging at different points in this pandemic yes so early on in the pandemic in January February. We saw a lot of conspiracy theories and hoaxes about the source of the virus misinformation about the you know the virus being created in the lab or being created as a bio weapon and then from there it kind of evolved into misinformation about cures treatments for the viruses. People started to take it seriously In now we're seeing the rise of politicalness information about the virus so trying to peg to a certain political party or trying to link financial connections to certain politicians. And how do you identify what is misinformation? Like how do you decide which misinformation is actually worth fact checking? Yeah so every single day I scroll through hundreds of social media posts and try to side which ones I want to cover and we look at a couple of different things. So I we WANNA see if there is a fact checkable claim so we see a lot of social media posts that are salacious or hyper partisan. But we're always looking to see if we can judge it based on some preconceived set of evidence whether it's data or Just other evidence that we can find online and then secondly we wanNA make sure that that post has reached enough people that it is worth covering because uplift fact. We don't want to re introduce people to misinformation that they might not have seen before so we look at things like how many times a post is shared or liked or commented on on. And there's no right answer here number that we use to justify our fact check but we use those signals to determine whether or not we pursue something and then finally. We always want to make sure that our readers are asking us about it so we have really engaged. Readers will send us. Dm's or emails asking us to look into certain social media poster claims and we assume that if we've received one email from a reader about a certain piece of content there are probably dozens of other others who had the same question but didn't reach out to us and are there specific characteristics that you're that you tend to find in misinformation that goes viral. Yeah so the most viral misinformation often taught taps into something that broad population as wondering about right so with plant dynamic it is a polished version of the conspiracy theories that we see single day online at answers some of the biggest questions that people have right now about the colonel virus pandemic one of the frustrating things about misinformation especially during a pandemic is that oftentimes the answer is we don't know or researchers are still looking into this or there's no evidence to back the suck and that's most of the falsehoods that are made a plan. Mak So this kind of misinformation is really appealing to people that want answers about something. That is really complicated. Like a factious disease that has recently emerged But that stuff is often fall. Sor unsupported and it goes viral really quickly on. Social Media. Emily I'm thinking about past public health. Crises does the misinformation. That's being shared right now about cove. Nineteen look similar or follow any similar trends to misinformation that was shared in the past. Yes and I think Daniel explained exactly why that would be People are looking for answers that science just can't necessarily give us. I also think people are looking for solutions. That science can't necessarily give us yet or that are really hard. No one particularly like social distancing and the difficulties created by that it would be much easier to believe that simply putting pepper in your food or or gargling water earth. Any of these other kind of false cures that we see online are effective than I have to distance myself from all my loved ones so I think that the characteristics that make us what to believe. Misinformation are really similar across different diseases. And so yeah. I think there's a lot of similarities between the kinds of misinformation. We're seeing now versus what we saw earlier and emily is there any way of measuring Cova nineteen misinformation and the spread of misinformation with real life health consequences? I think that that's an. It's an especially important characteristic. The to think about is a lot of misinformation doesn't have necessarily any consequence so I mentioned the. Who has debunked this idea that putting hot pepper in your food is going to prevent or cure cova now if I believe that I don't take appropriate precautions than it does have really problematic consequences. If I'm still washing my hands and social distancing a little extra pepper in my food is probably not going to affect me one way or the other. So I think separating out those kinds of misinformation that have consequences versus those that are perhaps consequential is is important to do that being said. Of course the things we think affect the things we do. And so if you believe something that's untrue. You might act in ways that are not ideal Daniel. What responsibility do social media? Companies have to stop the spread of information on their platforms. And what are they actually doing? So far yeah so for a long time. Social media companies like facebook have kind of abdicated some responsibility when it comes to misinformation rates saying that they don't want to be an arbiter of truth and they don't want to remove false content but would rather leave it up the community to decide With the pandemic. We've seen a lot of social media. Companies take a harder line comes to misinformation. The reason why is because a lot of health misinformation can have director dire consequences so take for example. The false claim that drinking bleach cares the corona virus. Really dangerous claim that could lead to hospitalizations and even death in some cases so we saw facebook twitter and Youtube takedown claims that actually relate to this because they go against their community guidelines You know wanting to avoid harmful misinformation so we have seen some of the tech companies. Take lines when it comes to misinformation directly causing harm like that now when you get to a grey areas when you get to political misinformation right so facebook doesn't really want to touch of false claims made by politicians and that's an interesting policy choice but it does show that there are still gaps in their policies. Emily I'm thinking about just the rest of us who are on these social media platforms and when we see others sharing misinformation. What's the best way for us to respond? And I'm thinking of this happening in two ways. There's the postal at UC by people. That you don't really know well that you went to high school with and you're not really in touch with and then there's the people who are posting who you're actually close to or that you're related to What's the right way to respond? So I've been doing research on this topic with Dr Latisha Bodey from Georgetown University for a number of years and the answer is respond There's a lot of evidence that when you correct somebody on social media you can do a benefit for the entire community seeing that interaction so the person sharing the misinformation might be the hardest one to reach the ones who were convinced enough of something that they're willing to share it but everyone else. They're a step removed and might be more easily corrected. The other thing to point out is this is actually happening quite often so we did a survey at the end of March and we found that about a third of Americans said they had seen someone else being corrected on social media in the past week related to Cova One thousand nine hundred and even more importantly people tended to like that kind of behavior they said it was part of the public's responsibility or that explicitly that they like it when people are correcting others. So it's not something that people tend to. It might not always be comfortable but it is something people tend to appreciate but what happens when the social media users are put in the position of being the editors of what's on those platforms. I mean not only. Can it be exhausting for some people to constantly be trying to correct misinformation? Is that really the most effective way for people to be on these platforms with each other? It certainly can be exhausting. And I'm not saying you have to fact check every single claim you see but if you see somebody sharing something you know to be false. The best thing you can do is reply with the accurate information and provided linked to some kind of expert source. And that could be the. Cdc that could be your local health company. It could be a news media organization that you trust so making sure people have that accurate information and again. It's not necessarily about the person sharing the misinformation. We want to update them. We WanNa make sure they have the correct information that can actually become a difficult sell mom but it's about everyone else sees that post. You don't want them left with an inaccurate impression of what the evidence is right now and so finding ways to do that when you see misinformation correcting it makes social media better place for everyone Emily what do you think is the responsibility of the social media? Companies in these cases to combat misinformation. Daniel talked a little bit about what kinds of actions have been taken so far by twitter by facebook. But do we know what's actually effective? So we know that some of these types of steps can be affected so facebook's related stories algorithm where they show fact checks after you share misinformation has been shown to reduce misperceptions among people seeing those Misinformation stories other steps. They can take is trying to Again make it more difficult to see that misinformation making it clear that there is More accurate information. So that when you give people something that's misinformation but you also give them something that's accurate. Most people are going to take that accurate information instead but it's making sure that they have That accurate information there at that exact same point in time Daniel Politic fact has found a number of statements that president trump has made about Kobe. Nineteen to be false or mostly false. What's the best way to combat misinformation when it comes directly from the President? Yeah so this was a tough one right. Because president trump as opposed to some social media users has arguably the biggest step pulpit in the world by which he can make claims at a fact we take the approach that it is best to just call him out every time. There is a falsehood and being uttered on national television. I'm so we will re tweet ORF tweet. Fact checks over and over again. Some people say that this isn't enough to correct the president But fact checkers believe that we just WanNa put as much a credible information in front of people as possible our goals in necessarily to get the president to change his mind right but we want the American people to know. Hey the president's saying list during the current virus impress briefings and it's not actually true or it's half true or here's some context you need so that's something we're doing and I think a lot of journalists could do that and if you're someone watching the president during a press briefing and you hear something interesting or you go. Is that true on? Just do a quick Google search oftentimes. That'll turn up plenty of press coverage contextualized as what you're seeing and emily aside from to correct bad information that people see on social media on their friends posts. What can people do to avoid sharing or amplifying misinformation? What should they be looking for? Daniel said is actually the best thing that you can do is don't try necessarily to just look at a piece of information and decide within the context of that article is this true or not planned dynamic looks very professionally done. You have somebody who has the title of Doctor. But as soon as you do some searching you'll see All of the problems with that content. There are news web fake news websites that try to look like real news websites that mimic the things that we look for Googling or for their names elsewhere can give you really important cues about whether or not that source can be trusted so taking that extra thirty seconds to to search and look for that information that seems too good to be true Or just seems outlandish can really help you discover whether other people have already kind of debunked that information and prevent you from sharing something. That's false Emily you know. I'm sort of struggling with some of my family members older family members who may not be very tech savvy Who Don't spend a lot of time necessarily on the Internet and who have sometimes been sending me some things that are that are full of misinformation especially at a moment like this. How do I advise my family members on how to navigate information at a time like this? That's really hard. You're you're not just asking them to think carefully about the information they're seeing but learn a whole new set of skills. The idea of opening a new tab and searching for something is second nature for a lot of people but for others. They might not know what exactly that means so. I think that understanding where people are and showing a lot of empathy is a really important first step and then back to trying to get them to search for things. There's a lot of fantastic fact checking happening. A lot of people are doing their best to make sure the high quality information is available. It just involves taking that time to to go an extra step and not just re tweet something. That seems totally true to us. It matches what we feel our gut but Actually matches reality. Emily Ragas an associate professor at the University of Minnesota and Daniel. Funky is a staff writer covering online misinformation for politic. Fact thank you both of you. Thank you so much for having me as college and university campuses around. The country remained closed due to Kobe Secretary of Education. Betsy Devos released new rules this month around campus sexual assault. These new rules establish a more narrow definition of sexual harassment and require schools to allow direct cross examination victims many advocacy organizations are unsurprisingly. Concerned about the impact. This will have on survivors coming forward. They say these new rules allow schools to use a standard of evidence that might favor those accused of sexual harassment or assault. I spoke about this with Sage Carson a sexual assault survivor and a manager at know your nine. A PROJECT FOR EMPOWERING STUDENTS TO END Gender Violence in schools and I spoke to Anna North a senior reporter at box where she covers gender issues. The new rules defined sexual harassment as unwelcome conduct that is so severe pervasive and objectively offensive. That it denies person access to the school's education program or activity. I I asked Anna how that definition will change things for students. So what a lot of folks say that would mean. Is that really a student would have to feel that. They're forced out of something in their education. In order to really have a case under title nine they would have to feel that they couldn't go to class because they were being forced to go to class with their rapist or they can no longer stay in their dorm because someone that had assaulted them. Live there mid up to say that their education been severely on pervasively impacted in this way so if a high school student goes to their principal or goes to their title nine coordinator and says I'm experiencing harassment. The school could say it's not bad enough in turn them away. That's extremely concerning. Because we know that many folks when they seek out help the first time in their turned away will never seek out help again and the new rules also changed the standards for evidence. Can you explain what's different now? So under the Obama era guidelines the schools are required to use a standard called the preponderance of the evidence standard when adjudicating sexual harassment assault cases and that standard basically means that the accused person would be found responsible if the evidence showed it was more likely than not that the violation occurred now under the new guidelines. Schools may use that standard but they may also use a standard called clear and convincing evidence. That standard is generally seemed to be more favorable to the accused. Student also says it has to effectively deny someone access to education so that would mean that someone would have to drop out of class or school entirely before school can take action. The purpose of title nine is that students are able to continue their education even if they experienced gender violence. It's meant to be preventative. What this rule require is for students educations to already be detrimentally impacted before school ever takes action you experience sexual assault during college. And you've said that if these new rules had been in place at that time your case would have been handled very differently. I experienced sexual assault my Sophomore Year of college. I was assaulted at an off. Campus apartment after I'm attending an off campus party. I have been fed drinks by my abuser. Who was very aware that the more and more intoxicated? I was the more likely it would be able to all. I was taken to an off campus apartment and was assaulted their following my assault. I was really unable to succeed in school. I was in a really really small department my school and so was my my rapist. So that meant that anytime. I walked into the single building that all of our classes were in first to see him so I really stopped attending classes. I stop participating in activities related to my education and stopped really leaving my apartment at all my scholarship that allowed me to attend school as a low income student was also tied to my participation in that department so while my grades were falling. I was unable to transfer because I couldn't get funding to go to another school with how low grades dropped and I really saw no other options besides dropping out of school. I was lucky enough to be in contact with the campus advocate. Who helped me file a formal report and helped me seek support from my institution? I should say that devices. Current rules allow schools and actually require schools to dismiss cases of sexual violence that occur outside of a university program activity so off campus housing as well right absolutely so what this means is that schools would be required to dismiss cases of sexual assault. That happened at off. Campus Party is out campus housing also outside of the US so that means violence. That happens in study abroad programs or possibly international travel that schools would go together. This also doesn't clued unmarked fraternity houses so while the department says that they are not allowing fraternities to be excluded from this permission. Actually if a school doesn't recognize the fraternity or doesn't recognize the fraternity house. They could never be punished by the school for committing sexual ants. In one of the new rules requires schools to hold live hearings where direct cross examination would be allowed. And say Gee you actually did face cross examination when you accused. You're assaulter. What did that mean for you? Yeah when I was a student and I reported Maya Salt may school. I was told to Davis before hearing that I was going to be going through cross examination by best and because of that I drop my case. I've gotten a lot of pushback when I talked about that. Folks have said Look. You were telling the truth. Why would you be scared to be questioned about it in the first place and I was scared of the questions that would be asked? Moore that the only thing that I could really remember about the assault what my rapist said the entire time and I was terrified to hear their voice again. It gave me. Nightmares can be panic attacks and stopped me from going to class because I was scared to simply hear their voice and so I dropped my case because I would rather have you know not move forward with that at all than had to go through that process and talked to many other survivors who feel the same way. Cross examination can happen through neutral third parties where both parties pose questions to a neutral third party. They decide what questions are appropriate and then ask them to both parties. What devices rule requires that? Many courts don't require up due process in school. Is that both parties question. Each other through the representative and Devos's ruled does not put any limitations on who can be the representative for each party. Besides that either cannot represent themselves. This means that survivor could be questioned by their rapist parent fraternity brother friend or new partner. Which could be an extremely traumatizing process. And also I lead itself open to being very harassing nature. I've talked to many survivors. Who when they named their rapists and report it to their school very collected statements from their fraternity brothers about how they were a great man and they would ever done. This demosthenes new rule would now allow ray best to bring their friends into examination to question survivors and their witnesses as well secretary of education. Betsy Devos has said in a statement too. Many students have lost access to their education because their school inadequately responded when a student filed a complaint of sexual harassment or sexual assault and has divorce been pushed on that claim? Do we know how many students in the united have been expelled or bound from their universities or colleges do to sexual harassment disciplinary process. So something I found really interesting about that. Statement is that it's actually not clear that it applies only to accuse students If you look at it. She's saying that they have lost access to their education because their school inadequately responded when a student filed a complaint now the point of title nine is to prevent people from losing access to their education because of harassment. So she may be trying to thread the needle and in that statement. Say you know that students may have lost access to their education because they reported harassment or assault but their school mishandled that claim. And certainly we have heard from many survivors who say exactly that this siege. I just wanted to add that. One study found that about a third of survivors drop out of school after experiencing sexual violence. So we do know that. A large majority of survivors leave school because of the violence that they experience while there isn't a nationwide data on how many students have been punished because of sexual misconduct accusations. A good place. I always look is at the University of Michigan. Who publishes there the outcomes of their reports and investigations every year and one of their reports showed that there were over two hundred reports to the school of sexual violence and of that only one student was expelled for Sexual Islands? Many college and university campuses are closed right now. Due to the pandemic and this rule has sort of quietly been enacted does school or campus closures. Have anything to do with that. Is there anything to this timing? Do you think sage? I think that the department itself showed when it thinks of its own rule by releasing it during global pan-demic when schools are in crisis. These rules proposed two years ago at they were originally supposed to come out last fall and it is now. They are now chosen to be released in the middle of a pandemic would say that. No you're nine. Sent a letter to over five hundred university administrators entitlement coordinators because we heard from survivors across the country that their title nine coordinators were either not responding to their questions about what school closures would mean for their case or for the academic at combinations that they were receiving under title nine coordinators. Were ignoring them or delaying their cases indefinitely until they returned to school. And so no. You're nine sent out resources for schools to know how to better respond to sexual misconduct during rote learning. How they continue carrying out cases schools have been begging for months for further guidance on how they should be handling school closures. How they should be supporting students right now and how they should be handling title mind but diverse has largely failed to respond to them and provide them the resources that they need to do right by students right now and instead is prioritizing rolling back the rights of students survivors instead of providing them protections that they need right now to continue education. Sage Carson is a sexual assault survivor and a manager at know your nine and Anna. North is a senior reporter at. Vox thank you both very much. Thanks so much in some cities across the country maternity wards are disappearing in black neighborhoods experts. Call these areas maternity care. Desert's those are areas where women have limited access to maternity care services such as prenatal care or maternity wards or they have none at all. Now many are worried that as the corona virus pandemic continues. These desert's could become a truly nationwide trend. Kelly glass recently wrote about this for the New York Times. She's a freelance journalist. Who reports on the intersections of parenting health and race? Here's what Kelly told me about. Why hospitals are closing their maternity wards. And something that we saw with rural hospitals. I think one thing that we have to remember is that hospitals are businesses. And I think we don't talk about that enough but the fact of the matter is they want to make a profit. Maternity wards tend to not be as profitable as other areas of hospitals so when things need to get cut. Those are often on the chopping block. First you mentioned rural areas being a place where this happens a lot but I understand also from your reporting and others that maternity wards in black communities are often among the first things to go when slashing hospital budgets. Why is that happening? We have the data on Rural Hospitals. Because that's what has been previously looked at but maternity wards and even hospitals closing and black neighborhoods has been something that's sort of. I guess quietly under the scene been going on for a while so in the case of Chicago in particular we saw three maternity wards close within the last year and again hospitals are business. So we're talking money. We're talking prioritizing who gets care. Unfortunately so he's in Saint Bernards Arts closed. They announced the closure as out of necessity to accommodate covert nineteen patients so decisions were made people removed and the people who ended up being displaced often Black people in black neighborhoods and are we seeing that happen. A lot right now is covert nineteen playing a role in the shuttering of these types of words. The data we have on that is like it's really not there. Nobody is keeping track of this at all but we saw this in Washington. Dc where several hospitals and maternity wards closed we saw it in Philadelphia where again several hospitals and maternity wards close. So we know what's happening. We know what's been happening in cities and we know that the corona virus pandemic stands to worsen it because if there is a need for space in cities you know again descends. Decisions are going to be made against the major concern. There is that we become aware of it sooner rather than later. So that we can mitigate it before it has devastating effects on the black community. What do we know about how this is affecting health outcomes for black mothers in these called Desserts? We know that the maternal mortality rate in this country is tragic. It's it's the highest of any developed nation. So we have that going on. We know that black women basically bear the brunt of that high maternal mortality rate. And we know that black women do not have a few things going on so we need continuity of care. They need to have ongoing relationships with the care team that they know it's going to take care of them. They need to have a care team. That is culturally competent so an community hospitals such as Saint Bernard Hospital in Chicago which I discuss in this piece. They basically reimagined healthcare to fit the needs of their population. And we do know from research that social determinants are very important you cannot ignore race you cannot ignore gender socio economic status you cannot ignore the type of community someone lives and when you give them care so considering that we cannot do this you know. I treat everybody the same approach to healthcare that I think has been prevalent. Black birthing people. They need more of a community based approach than that and when they don't get that unfortunately we see deaths go up. We see morbidity an injury an birth trauma go up for that population. I have some numbers here in front of me. I just want to Read them for you and also ask you to sort of respond to them and talk about how your reporting has also supported these but according to the Centers for Disease Control Black Women in the United States are three to four times more likely to die of Regmi related complications than white women and even studies that compared black women and white women who had the same common medical complications around pregnancy. Black women were still more likely to die than their white counterparts and this disparity. I know I'm I'm based in New York. It's even higher in New York City. What are some of the reasons for these disparate? Maternal health outcomes. There's very real implicit bias. That's going on at the hospital level. Unfortunately back factors into how these women are getting care. Black Women simply do not feel listen to you by their doctors. And when that happens a lot of things get overlooked. A lot of these deaths are preventable and a lot of them. Publicly be preventative. Black women felt listened to if they listen to buy the care team at the hospital. You have that going on. You also have this physiological thing going on where we know that the chronic stress of racism fire effects on a woman's body. So you have black women who are carrying this chronic stress in our wombs basically it makes pregnancy more complicated oftentimes. If we're really really honest about it. Racism is at the root of this. When you talk about black women not feeling listened to by their doctors. Masumi there you mean by their doctors who are not of the same race corrales. So what do we know about what's happening in hospitals where there are more providers of color or at the very least ones who are more culturally? Competent happens in those cases what happens especially for black mothers. There was a piece in the Journal. Pediatrics recently showed that lack Nikki. Babies received better care in what would be considered a poor quality Nikki or hospital and they were considered poor quality because those hospitals are majority black neighborhoods so we know that black women and black babies have better outcomes when they half black doctors. Are there any ways in which this particular crisis the pandemic but we're all experiencing can affect maternal health outcomes for black women in particular? I think our healthcare system was already overwhelmed. Already headed structural faults. But I do think that. The Corona Virus Pandemic has highlighted in. Maybe even exaggerated some of those faults and when you have a system that is overwhelmed. Decisions are made people are prioritized in people are under prioritized and often that means black women that means black people in general. It's safe to say that if there is not some active awareness about this being a possibility and solutions in place to make sure that we have an equitable approach to fixing these faults that we could stand to see this. Maternal mortality rate especially among black women rise. What I do hope comes out of this is that we finally realized that. We don't need to wait until a public health crisis becomes a public health crisis. Tuesday art action that the sooner the better so it sounds like you're saying that there is data to support that. Having doctors who are black nurses who are black providers who are black actually makes a big difference on the health outcomes of a black mother and her child What are some other ways to mitigate the maternal health disparities both in the short term and in the long-term? There are a lot of things that need to happen. It's hard to find a one-size-fits-all approach but there are some things you know. For example we tend to have a I care for everyone the same attitude in healthcare. And we don't need to do that what we need to do. Is We need to care for everyone. Based on their needs based on their social determinants of health and that education needs to happen at the medical school level. So when they're teaching doctors make better real part of the curriculum. Make sure that they're learning those things learning about the different populations. They might work with learning about what they're different needs are if they have something else going on at home that it is a part of their. Ob Care to talk to their doctor about it and it makes a big difference. I mean imagine simple things like not having transportation to your appointment I want now at my. Ob'S OFFICE IF I cancel an appointment there's not a consideration that may be just didn't have a way to get there in have a hospital staff where clinic staff call me up and say hey. Can I help you arrange transportation reimagining healthcare altogether to make sure that we're not ignoring these very very important? Social determinants of health. I think is going to be key. I mean of course. We cannot erase racism. But we can mitigate its effects with those things and I think we need to start thinking that way and how might Dulas or midwives help to fill in the gaps here? Yeah that's a great question. I think dul isn't midwives. Are a huge part of the solution. I think that one of the barriers with that is again policy for example in Illinois in in the state I'm in there are about ten certified nurse midwives in the entire state and CPM certified professional midwives. Which is a different kind of credential are not recognized at all we do not allow us to be paid with. Medicaid as most states. Do I think right now. Only two states allow Dulas to be paid with Medicaid so we have those Israel options if only they were more accessible and we need the policy to make them more accessible. What I hope comes out of this is that we again. Say Options for birthing. People are important so not just hospital births but yes Holmberg star. A real option Dula attended birth midwife attended births in hospitals in birthing centers so more options but also more access obviously to make those options real. Kelly glass is a freelance journalist. Who reports on the intersections of parenting health and race? Kelly thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. This was great ever seen accommodate. Why do you want a little bit? Because if you're GONNA drink at Radley Dude in the house just to say hello. Did you see the memo about this and you won't be angry. I will not be angry. Healthy that's the intro. Music used to accompany these fine folks. Two thousand eleven nineteen sixty six and nineteen fourteen. Which of these years if you if you had to choose. Which of these years would you go back to? Oh man not nineteen. Fourteen one's about to die doesn't sound that great. Does it great war? They didn't use the word great correctly in that one. That was not great. That of course is Rafer Guzman film critic for Newsday and longtime contributor to the takeaway and Kristen minds her a culture critic and the author of how to be fine if these voices sound familiar. It's because Rafer and Kristen hosted the takeaway movie podcast which ended back in early twenty sixteen but since then they told us longtime fans have been getting back in touch and asking for recommendations on what to watch in the era of Cova nineteen so rafer and kristen have reunited to create a new podcast called movie therapy and we're so excited to have them back here on the takeaway to talk about their movies prescriptions for this moment. Welcome back to the show. Kristen and Rafer. I should be excited to have you. We'll Kristin it. Sounds like you definitely got a nudge from but why did you want to get back together again to talk about movies at this time Well refer I have always enjoyed Movies together and talk about movies and I think we always thought it'd be great. If at some point we could work together again but then you know old listeners reached out kind of asked us to so that gave us the to do it and we understand why they are at home more than ever and a lot of people are needing some comfort. A lot of people are watching more. Tv than they ever have in their lives. They don't necessarily know what to watch. And in some cases people really just want a movie or a TV show. That's going to speak to their particular feelings whether those feelings are I WANNA kill my husband. He's driving me nuts or I need a vacation for my kids or I need a good cry. Whatever it is. Rafer movies can therapeutic at a time like this. Well I think movies first and foremost You know whether you want to admit or not they really are just an escape you know when I was a kid and I fell in love with movies. It was because they were a real escape. You could go into this fantasy world and you could kind of maybe see your best self on screen. You could sort of. See the world as you'd like it to be the way you wanted it to be There's a lot of escapist elements to that. I know You know film critics and film snobs will talk about how you're supposed to reflect reality and you want to see deep things with a lot of nuance and Things that are believable and convincing and show the world and I was realism. But I think when you really get down to it they're wish fulfillment and their fantasies and their dreams And so I think they can be pretty helpful at a time like this kristen. What are some of the most common things that people have been writing to you about and asking for you to sort of solve for them with movies suggestions? Oh well I already mentioned a few of them. You know. Some folks are really Feeling a little bit tense with the other people under their roof right now. Some people are feeling quite anxious But also we have people who very commonly right to US saying. They're addicted to reading the news. They stay up late to scrolling through their phones. And we've been hearing a lot just in the last few days from people who have cancelled summer plans and are are worried about that and Are Thinking about what they can do to replace that. Yes so tell us what your recommendations are for those people who are in new overload. Land Rafer describe what you're telling people to watch. Yeah sure You know I think what you want At a time like this like I said is something that would kind of get you out of this bubble and get you to weigh a happier place. You know it's funny. There are a lot of movies that come out over the years where that are kind of sort of trivial and insubstantial happen. I was sniff at those movies back in the day. Although now during the pandemic They seem six a lot better in hindsight and one of the ones that I might recommend a little movie by John. Fabric called chef which came out in two thousand fourteen mid little bit of a splash but wasn't a big hit. You know he's the guy that did the ironman movie and the First Iron Manning. The recent lion king usually a big budget director. You know you usually works with a lot of a lot of money but he did this little small personal film in two thousand fourteen where he plays a chef who has a meltdown on social media becomes the laughing stock of the Foodie oral. He's unemployable starts out at the bottom has to drive a food. Truck drives it with his son and of course it does so well that they drive it across the country and everything ends terrific and it's one of these movies that has no plot no conflict no villain of any kind Bus Got Great Cast Scarlett. Johansson John Leguizamo and Amy Sedaris small role for Robert. Downey Junior. He's in it and it's it's just one of those. Forget your troubles movies. It's the kind of thing that would have been like a blockbuster during the great depression or something and You know like I say I I didn't I didn't lavish it with praise at the but You know in the middle of a pandemic. I think it might be the thing to watch you know. In my household we literally put on a kids film the other day. And it's just me and my husband here. We watched the animated film Rio. We were just feeling overly needed to see some dancing and singing parrots and it was just perfect. Sort of Kristen. We have about a minute or two left. You talked about people who might be missing their summer plans or maybe travel plans. What are your prescriptions for that while one of my most basic prescriptions? As always if you're going to go on trip watch a movie that will get you in the mood for that so you can't go on that road trip. Maybe watch a movie like National Lampoon's vacation so you get that road trip feeling Maybe watch a movie that takes place once in each. Stop along the way. If your kids were going to be going to some sort of day camp the summer maybe you can do something like watch. Adventure movies together. That kind of gives them that sense of excitement of going off into the world troops zero that is on not flex right now or you know different kinds of Movies that captured their imagination as kids like back to the future. Something that you can vote together as a family. Let's watch this movie tonight or have the kids pick out the movies and then next week you can the movies as grownups and you can take turns and one other thing. You don't have to stop having adventures just because you're at home. You can try maybe creating a drive in movie experience in your backyard or on your front driveway by projecting movies there and then you can still feel like you're going on maybe a little vacation just by watching a movie outside Nice. We have just a little bit of time left so I'm going to try and squeeze this end. Do you have any recommendations for people who are actually wanting to lean into the dystopia of our current reality? Oh so many yes referred. I disagree on this but I think a lot of people enjoy leaning in Seattle Wienand. Chris what are your favorites? I think it's great to watch. Us chose let us Charlotte Grey's anatomy something that's kind of a procedural where there's an answer and under the episode. There's disaster happening everywhere Things are being people are on gurneys. But at the end of the episode you always get an answer and I think that can be comforting for a lot of people because there aren't a lot of answers right now so sometimes leaning in seeing a beginning a middle and an end and then on the next episode there's a whole new problem can be very comforting so rafer even though you're not a huge fan of the dystopia in movies for this moment do you have any recommendations maybe dystopia films that have a sense of yeah not too many. Do you know one movie that I always find myself going back to these days. It's the old John Carpenter movie escape from New York where he has become a giant prison and Russell has to go inside and rescue them. Rescue the downed president. And you know take dragon back out of out of New York and all the prisoners are trying to keep them there because they want to hold them hostage. And it's it's just a great then as now it was just a perfect metaphor for For Manhattan and it's a lot of fun at. It's got that John Carpenter over the top really vivid feel to it and it's it's always been a real favorite of line you know and it's not a dystopia movie that you know it's going to. I think make you depressed. Not like handmaid's tale or something like that you know. Yeah I sometimes you to take a break from some of those kinds of films and TV shows from some people that they are re watching movies that they've washed many many times before at this moment and I know that I tend to do this a lot and I sometimes feel guilty about it because I know there's so many great movies that I haven't seen before that I should probably be watching. Should I feel guilty? Have you heard this from other people? Oh yes we've heard from a lot of people in there. Actually some studies that indicate that it is a good thing to do to help ease anxiety to watch a movie or TV. Show where we already know what this character is going to say next and we already know what's going to happen in this scene and the scene after and we know there's going to be happy ending because there aren't going to be any surprises. There aren't going to be anything with you know. Throw US off kilter because all of it is predictable. All of it's comforting. Even the scary parts are comforting. Because we were there. We know they're coming and I think that's totally fine. I've been doing the same thing. I've been watching an episode of Little House on the prairie. At least three times a week since this started it was a show that I just absolutely adored growing up in syndication after school every day for many many many years in Minnesota and it was such a huge part of my life and yes I think I know every episode by heart but it still makes me feel good just to sit down and watch something I know by heart right now refer. What's something that you like to watch? That just makes you feel at ease and comforted. Well you know I think having Two kids both boys nine and twelve And my poor wife. surround surrounded by men in the house. But you know we're big guys at so you know. This has been a lot of fun to go back and watch all the old great Harrison Ford Action Films which they've just loved unusual. We saw Air Force One and You know they're they're really corny They're really well made. Though too and a lot of fun they start really hold up as entertainment. out My my older kid. I guess you would. You would think being the son of a movie critic. He would be a little different but he says I don't like dramas just want comedy action or action comedy exactly. I don't think he wants to dwell on feelings a lot and so These have been perfect and and they're fun and who doesn't love Harrison Ford and so next up might be witness. We're trying to decide whether the kids can handle that one So you know these old kind of eighties nineties Action Films You know I find that I find. They're pretty fun and and my kids so they They fit the bill. Do you have any recommendations for people who are thinking that this is a great time to bone up on their classics on the Criterion Collection. Or anything that they feel like. Wow that's in the. That's that's in the Canon. I need to watch that. I would say it really depends on what kind of household you're in you know if if you don't have kids then you know maybe you're you're free to to to go through that. I had the luxury that I I did put on. Not Too long ago live. Ampere is the French silent serial about the kind of the cat burglars that crawl in and out of people's houses. It's this very influential French series silent film. Not a lot of people are GonNa Watch that. I really enjoyed that but you know. Let's be honest if I'm watching that starting at about nine thirty PM. There's just only so much that I'm GONNA be able to stay awake for you. Know even even me Mr Film critic you know I'm not going to be able to staff until eleven or twelve. Pm Watching old silent films. So I don't know I would kind of say that people should maybe get themselves a bit of a break on that and try to bite off too much and you know. I don't know if you want to sit through Berlin Alexanderplatz at this point in time I really I really advise going for the going for the field and stuff. What are your thoughts on on classics? Well if you're GONNA do classics I am going to vote that you go in for some fun. One for the same reason that refer said like you know a lot of the classics during this time might put you to sleep. They might be too much to concentrate on And I'm also a big believer that during this time you don't have to live your best pandemic. You don't have to walk out of this having accomplished a lot. If you don't want to that's fine you can just relax but if you are going to dip your toes and does something like the criterion collection. Maybe start with something fun like one movie that I like quite a bit. That's on the criterion collection. Is Dentistry Rides again. In which Jimmy Stewart and Marlene Dietrich He is a Man. Who's essentially the sheriff of the small western town and he doesn't use guns. Marlene Dietrich Talking Saloon. Gal they You know overcome bad. Kyw's they get up to no good. There are lots of laughs in it. So maybe if you're going to get into the criterion collection maybe start with those kinds of movies where you can laugh and Maybe learn a little bit of something about you. Know who these big stars were back then. You know if you've never seen a Marlene Dietrich movie. If you've never seen a Jimmy Stewart movie maybe this is good place to start. And wonder if you're coming up with little sort of projects for people or if anyone's asked to be assigned or given a whole list of movies to watch like the other day. My husband and I decided because we really enjoyed watching parasite the long whole films such a good move up best film last year and he won best director and so we decided to go back and start watching some other bunk June home films and we really enjoyed it. We watched oak jaw which was fantastic really enjoyable. And then we watched his film snow Piercer. Which is about people who are the last remaining people on Earth who are all on this one train together and for me that was really intense? And maybe it's the intensity being locked in my house or something that just kind of mess with my mind. Are you coming up with any any sets or sort of projects for people to take on? Yes absolutely recommended larger watching projects for example. We have had parents right in saying. I'm just so overwhelmed with the kids being at home at at all hours while I'm trying to still work a fulltime job and I'm supposed to somehow be a teacher right now when I am not a good teacher and Anita break for my kids and in those cases You know I'll sometimes giving them a long list of TV. Shows that you can have your kids watch guilt free. You don't have to feel bad about your kid watching you know twenty hours a week of Mr Roger Sesame Street and then Dolly Parton reading bedtime stories to you for example so sometimes they list right there. I wonder if you could both leave us with one last recommendation. Maybe a great new ish movie a movie. That's come out in the past couple of years that you love recommending to people You know one one that we recommended to a listener a while back somebody who was Really Missing New York And just sort of the feel of around the neighborhood We recommended top five. Chris rock movie where he's just sort of plays version of himself. He's with Rosario Dawson. Who plays a and they just kind of spend sort of a day in the night Walking around New York and kind of meeting people and talking and meeting his friends and family. And it's just really fun lively Kind of love letter to New York. I it's kind of cliche but it really is. And it's not a long ago film so it really does kind of captured the New York that you remember and and it's very funny and fun and recommended that one and I thought that was a good pick on our part. Rafer Guzman is a film critic. For Newsday and Kristen minds are is a culture critic and the author of the book how to be fine and together. They are the hosts of the podcast movie. Therapy thank you to both of you for coming back on the takeaway thank you. That's all for today. Thank you so much for listening. I'M SHUMITA BASU. This is the takeaway. I'll meet you back here tomorrow.

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Upgrade 307: Big Sur Sosumi

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1:40:34 hr | 10 months ago

Upgrade 307: Big Sur Sosumi

"From Relay FM This is upgrade. Three. Hundred and seven is still the summer fund summer. And today show's brought to you by express UPN mint mobile and paint them. My name is Mike. Kelly I'm am joined by Mr Jason Snow. Hi Jason's now? Hi, Mike Hurley it is the summer of fun and we got something fun today. Because it's the summer front. Of course we do. We're planning. We're we're planning our attack. For some are fun Yup not going to reveal anything yet, but we got ideas. We have plans the summer fun. Planning document is stretching out across the summer. The moment runs until mid August where I think. We're need a lot longer than that. We need more ideas. We. Do ever has small talk question from Arjun. Who wants to know Jason? Where do you start reading a book? Do you look at the cover? And all of the Preamble G go straight to the first word of the first chapter and assists different analog verses e books I don't. I start at the beginning and read to the end and in terms of the front matter i. I always WANNA. Have whatever. I WanNa know what the setup is from the writer, so if there's a quote or something like that I mean if it's like an unlisted. I'm not GonNa read that things that are part of the work. I will absolutely do it and do I. Look at the cover I mean I. I yeah I seen the physical object, or if it's a kindle book I've at least ordered it. What I don't like about reading on the kindle is sometimes it takes you. It always takes you to the first page of the of the text, but you often will miss like the name of the section or a quote that starts it or things like that, so I always sort of backup from the beginning just to see if there's anything else there but mostly it's pretty straightforward. I will also say that I have I have no maps policy. there are a lot of especially fantasy novels that have maps. Or genealogies in the back, sometimes that happens to or even in the front, no maps genealogies I'm not interested in your maps and genealogies. If you. If you can't tell the story without a map, you have failed as a writer I. Don't want your map. I. Know you'RE GONNA you're GonNa this so much i. read the loss line. You Do I. Do you're like Harry? And when Harry met Sally, you gotta read the last line. In case, something happens no. I. I'm like I get. Impatient or whatever and and it's kind of like. The temptations is too strong. To dislike differential privacy where you have you read the first line in the last line, you can use a I to synthesize what happened in the entire novel, and you don't have to read it as me the time reading the books. Yeah, but like frankly. The last line so rarely gives away anything like it. Just you know it doesn't really give anything away. There was a Harry Potter book. One of them were kind of our whoops, but I just. I feel better that way by doing. The real trick is I. Don't read books so I don't have to read the loss lines, so they go. Well, that's all. That's all everything Fans in our chat room who are very angry with me? I I enjoy a fake map i. read the strange maps blog for a long time, a fake map a fantasy map. It's fun like I know. Where more door is okay? I get it for. People angry at you. It's like four times anger at me right now for the well. That's because you're a monster, but I just WANNA. Be Clear to all my fans out there that Matt. Fantasy maps are fun, but they can't be essential and when I haven't started the book yet. I'M NOT GONNA. Look at the map I'm not gonNA I WANNA. Go Right! Wow, there's a map here. I better get some geography lessons of this fantasy world before I. Start So i. know where I am. It's like I don't want to do that. If I want to refer back later to the fantasy map. Okay, I don't, but I could I would anybody read the map before the read the? APPS WITH For Reference Yeah and even then I'm not a huge fan of it because like. If you have to consult a map, it I think you failed as a writer the genealogy of the one that really gets me though where it's I I was a book episode, the incomparable recently where people were talking about how they had read the genealogy in order to understand how all the characters were related to one another, and it was a book, and I enjoyed, but I said no. Are you kidding no? I'm not going to consult like reference material for the novel I'm reading. The storyteller really needs to do their job in the novel and not say oh well, you don't know who this person is. Go look at the at the at the back of the book. Also I read on a kindle, so looking at the back of the book is hard. If you would like to send in a possibly less controversial snow, told questions just to be clear more less controversial. Than where do you start reading a book where the clear answer is at the beginning? And then I go to the end, and we both managed a mess that up, so so thank you, thank you to our smell dot question. Thank you is in Hashtag Snell talk you just send out a tweet and be included in a list, or you could use to come on with a question. Mark Snell talk in the laugh members discord I have. Very short article that I wanted to prefer toward listlessness short point from an article written at Bloomberg. basically just staying apple's current policy for working from home, so as covid nineteen cases continue to spike throughout the world. Apple has been reclosing retail stores is saying that like they opened the bunch in America closed them down again and now apple, a edging their retail employees to work from home wherever possible and you'd say to. To Yourself. How can a retail play work from home? Apples create a kind of thing would retail at home program where they're basically moving the in store retail stuff to online stuff whether it be customer support of a services which related to online, because as you can imagine apples need for online retail was increased right like everybody else. Because if you can't go to the store, you get stuff done somewhere. People doing online so. They're trying to remove people around for that and also. they're not going to be doing a full return for US offices in two thousand twenty, so they do not expect any point in two thousand twenty to bring all of this stuff back to the office. I think this makes sense for many reasons for lots of companies, but I think especially for apple as a company that wants to ensure that some people are able to be at the office. With a lot of these, it's like we you know. We want some people to be back, so we'll bring those in, but for apple we spoke about before with like the secrecy and the product design labs and stuff that stuff has to be done apple Puck, so they wanNA. Keep everybody away to protect small group to be able to be there. And they specifically said in the in three months ago because we're coming up to a new analyst, Call and quarterly results of get ready for that that they some some groups were more efficient remotely in some were less efficient remotely, and if you're trying to bring people back, who are important for your business and are. They you know are less efficient remotely. What you WanNa do is bring them back in one. Give them room to spread out and and separate them perhaps much more than they would have been otherwise, and and to put them in an environment where they're not running into a lot of other people. It's not just the space. It's also like if there are. Eight people in Apple Park or or one hundred fifty people in Apple Park. Versus like a thousand people in Apple Park the the chances of exposure and things like that go way down as well so that actually kind of makes sense I would imagine the people that have to be at Apple Park are GonNa. Come back to apple, Park and be spaced out presumably, and that'll be what it's like for a while. Yeah. I think there's also a benefit to. Launch companies being very upfront with their employees. If they've made these decisions because it allows people to go places. You know if if you like Lisa's being renewed and you only live in this city because you walk in the building, which is close to it. Maybe you could go back home for six months or something right and set and deal with it later on. You know what I mean right like where if you look at some of these like some of the largest city is where a lot of tech companies are. Rents are really high, and if you're only there because you work, the company may be giving you the ability to. Go somewhere else for a bit could be useful so I think it's good for companies to be pretty upfront about this stuff considering where we are. And who knows maybe it will actually change apple's corporate culture in some ways where some groups that were mandatory in person, never go back to being mandatory in person. I think so. The ball right? I hope so because you know as somebody who knows people who work at Apple. and has talked to people who are hiring managers apple. In the past, some of their groups, their insistence on them being in person. Don't make any sense and I do and some of them don't and I'm a big fan of of distributed workplaces and I think you get better people who are happier and more efficient and they can. Handle forcing them to move to an incredibly high cost of living places, not necessarily for a job. That doesn't need to be done. There is is not great, so I hope that they change their tune a little bit. UPSTREAM TIME I have a couple of acquisitions, the apple of made for Apple TV, plus ordeals least they've signed They have signed a first look deal with Interests Elba. So there's not really much more to say than than that so interested. The wire luther he was hidden thal movies, as well and also apple of acquired another movie called Palma starring Justin, Timberlake, Juno Temple Academy, award nominee June, squibb and Alicia wainwright This one was actually announced by apple themselves. They had the the website that I love which is Apple Dash. TV Dash plus. DASH PRESSED APPLE DOT COM, which looks like a fake website, but is a real website. The apple you run the maintain. They announced this one rather than where most of headlines come from sites like deadline all the Hollywood reporter off variety, but this one came up from Apple. The movie stuff is particularly interesting, because it seems to actually be doing pretty well for them, so we've mentioned Greyhound bit recently. a report from deadline is staying from their sources that Greyhound is reportedly apple's largest. Success logic in any of the series or anything else that they've done before with apparently over thirty percent of the views of Greyhound, being new to apple TV plus. Yeah, the how about that? That's really interesting that that it had that appeal, and although I mean this is this was a father's day movie, so this was not like a summer blockbuster per se, but it's got a big name, and it's kind of a potential for broad appeal, and all of that and I think it's interesting that it did well and they have other things in the works that are more likely to be blockbusters down the road. But this is encouraging and we've seen from net flicks and you know and I just watched. Palm, springs on Hulu like films on streaming services is a driver of engagement just as much as TV. Shows are so I think that's interesting? Switching gears to another company, but on a similar vein. Wanted to just mention this Netflix News they're developing a spy series based on the gray man book series. The reason I thought this is interesting is because of how big they're going with it they're making a movie. It's dead putting over two hundred million dollars into it. They of signed the Russo Brothers to direct. This is the Russo Baba's first movie. Since Adventures, they have Ryan Gosling in the lead role with the hopes of turning this into a franchise where Goslin will star as the. The gray man in multiple movies with Chris Evans as the quote Unquote Villain for this movie. Basically all of the reporting saying. That net flicks trying to build a James Bond like franchise right. I think of it may be more of like born born Graham. Sure now. I think it's an interesting idea. And so we I just mentioned TV and film right, so I look at this I think great I mean Netflix's GonNa spend a huge amount of money. They're gonNA have big stars. They're going to promote the heck out of it. It's going to be a major motion picture action adventure tentpole kind of thing running on Netflix Great. I do have one question, which is when I think about films versus TV. And we're talking about Netflix's, which is both? I look at this and I. Think Okay like I get it you spending two hundred million dollars, and you're gonNA. Make a big blockbuster movie and you're GonNa put it on your service. If, this is a franchise going forward. What's the right way to play it and I don't have an answer here, but I'm just saying what's the right way to play it because you could do another one of these every two or three years, and it would be like a born or a James Bond. Could you do something different? You're on streaming so I also start to think. Could you do something more like? Think about how BBC did Sherlock. With cumberbatch where it was like the all of those are like ninety minute long episodes. They're basically movies. They're basically movies. But shorter than two and a half hours like so many theatrical movies, and they would do a handful of them. And I look at this and I think okay well. If you want this to be a franchise, net flicks is your next step. Wait three years and. Get another movie for two hundred million dollars or is your next step. You know workup, a two or three scripts. And have two or three shorter run time movies. That roll out over time. Because it allows you to and I don't know the answer. Maybe the answer is no making people wait two years, and then having a big blow is the right way to do it and I'm not saying they turn Ryan goslings. Spy. Franchise Net flicks into a TV show but I'm saying with streaming. There's a middle ground right like they could do. They break the rules of like well. No, no, this is a feature. Oh well, this is a TV show you could. If your net flicks try to get a little creative and play with the space that's in between those things because I. see no reason why they couldn't spend. Two, hundred million dollars, or two hundred and fifty million dollars on making you know two and the Russo brothers know about making movies right because they just did it with ventures. But, even if they were stand alone stories like maybe maybe that will give you a better return, or maybe maybe it's all about a huge marketing blitz for a giant thing, and everybody comes to watch that, and then they go away for two years I just wanted to ask the question because I think it's interesting that there are. There are things in between what we think of his film, and TV and if you're ever going to explore that a streaming service like Netflix's where you can do it. I. I say I agree if you'll concept, but I, think for this specific project for some reason like the idea of it being a movie that can big move and being a big like quote, unquote, some blockbuster Netflix's attempt, I some blockbuster, and also I would assume for similar reasons like they may be one at. They're gonNA. Pull this money into. MAYBE THEY WANNA pick up some movie awards right which Netflix's ashore so many of those yeah, but they, but if they again if they structured. If they had to good story ideas, they could make to ninety minute movies with two good story ideas and release them a year apart, and it would be more move. They may do that off to the first one so like if the first one works for sure you know of. Of course I'm not. I'm not talking about the first one. I'm saying sort of like if this is a franchise and you're gonNA continue it. How do you replicate it? Because the James Bond Model, the born model is every few years. You make a big. Hollywood blockbuster your net flicks. You'll have to do it that way if you don't want to. You can release somewhat smaller movies. That were still super big especially. If you need to schedule, Ryan Gosling, right. Schedule Him to shoot two of them back to back in rolling out over successive years, and you've got a new gray man. Movie and you'd call it a movie, but it would be every year instead of every two or three years and is a different model. It's I'm just fascinated by the options that these companies have not. Everything is a TV show. Not Everything is a blockbuster movie, but sometimes those things are the right format I. Just I looked at this and I thought. How do you build a franchise going film franchise on Netflix. And what are your options because I think they've got a lot of different options, and maybe the creators right? Maybe the Russo brothers, and Ryan, Gosling and whoever else is producing this. Maybe it ends up being in their lap of of Where do they go next? And what do they have a big idea that requires two hours or do they have something that has a natural break in where like? Like avengers, then game or and Adventures Infinity War, you could actually like play into the fact that there's a delay between and leave everybody hanging it's up to them creatively to decide, but they've got I like that. They've got the options in a way that the old kind of it has to be a major motion picture release that those rules don't necessarily apply at least as much to Netflix's. Peacock, premium launched to everybody. Oh, has it? Yes, what are your? To experience so far, so this is the streaming service from NBC Universal, which is owned by comcast, which means that it is a streaming service from a cable company, which is interesting because we view. Streaming Service as sort of the future and you can cut. The cord from Your Cable Company Your TV provider traditional, LINEAR LINEAR TV provider and So, what does it look like? If you if it's a streaming service from the LINEAR TV, provider and the answer is I got it free because I have comcast cable Which is I? Think just such a cable company. Move Right. They're like Oh. Yeah, a cord cutters by it and you got our shrink service great. There's a free tier, and then there's like a five dollar a month. Tear that peacock premium, and then there is a ten dollars a month to your cult peacock premium plus Mike. He being serious. Yes. is called premium plus premium, plus and that's the ad free version of peacock premium. Is this peacock feel like we didn't know that right cooling peacock, plus before which was the joke? Yeah, I. I wasn't aware of it it. It may have been out there, but I wasn't aware of it until it launched and I clicked because I have peacock premium. What I found is that. That if I would like to make the ads on Peacock go away as a comcast subscriber I can pay five dollars a month to upgrade to peacock premium, plus and then I don't see the ads for everybody else. It's whatever ten dollars a month without the ads five dollars a month with the ADS. I don't just call it Pico, plus why premium plus silly, it's more. There's some interesting stuff in here. NBC has moved all of their Premier League contents, so NBC has the Premier League in the US. This is this. is football slash soccer everybody British soccer English soccer. More than English it's It's. Full bore than than American football. Just you know no, but it's English football because it's literally. It's the English premier. It's only England and and like like May, sometimes team in Wales, not even. Scotland they have their only. And I assume Northern Ireland only, but I don't know anyway soccer talk. The but in the US embassies got it and what they did a few years ago, is they? I think last year two years ago. They took all the games that were not on their network or on their. Their Cable Channel NBC Sports Network and they put it on a streaming service called NBC sports. which cost sixty five dollars a year? And what what they've done is they put all of that stuff into peacock, so or peacock premium, and so what that means essentially that I get all the all the soccer matches now where I wasn't paying for NBC Sports Gold, so I only got what they chose. And so that's kind interesting, so they're pushing a lot of their sports stuff that they used to have on these like more esoteric niche services, and they're just pushing them into peacock, which I think is the right thing to do right they they're really They want to load up on the content and peacock. Have that's the product? They want to sell to people, so they pushed all their soccer stuff in there. It's got a few features that I really liked that. Other streaming services and other APPs have tried. But I I like that they're giving it a go. They had this thing called channels. That's not like Apple. TV channels are Amazon channels. Television channels so wants to replicate the experience of flipping to a channel and seeing what's on. So with a live livestream channel. I have suspicions that they this technology because they were going to launch with the Olympics the summer, which ended up not happening, but the idea there that they would have these live various livestream channels of different things happening at the Olympics and they don't. They don't have that, but they do think so. There's like there's a Jimmy Fallon channel where it's just different tonight. Show with Jimmy. Fallon shows. Streaming endlessly like there's a Bob Ross channel the painter US good idea. Right so you just flip on. If you want to be calm and relaxed, you flip Bob. Ross. Channel has just endless streaming Bob Ross. there's an eighty three one channel. It's got a bunch of like comedies and detective shows and stuff There's an office channel, so you just flip it to the office and it's episodes of the office forever. the. At Fox did this for a while. With their Simpson's APP, they had a simpsons app where you can just stream, and it was endless stream of the simpsons, too. So I think it's I think it's a clever idea. And it's good for sports like they're using this for the soccer stuff now they use the channel interface for that. That's where you're watching the live soccer matches. You flip to that channel for that showing that match. So that's an interesting idea tries to get to the. Thought of that, maybe sometimes you just WanNa dial in a particular thing and then just not. Fiddle with the interface like there's no auto, play or anything. It's just literally. It just plays forever. That's an interesting thing to try. They have a bunch of early got some original content, but it seems kind of cobbled together from various parts of the universal NBC empire. They've got this show. Brave new world that sounds very much like it was built for the Scifi Channel, and then kind of re purposed into peacock premium although there is a show that I like ap bio, which was a Sitcom on. NBC and they ran. This is the story we talked about a while ago and got some good laughs out of it, which is that NBC canceled it, and then a peacock saved it. And the real there's a real question of like. Why did you not just come? Hello, like have a conversation about. Maybe we should put this this. Not How they did it. They just canceled it. And then they saved from themselves so weird so I'll watch that because that's coming back this fall, and that's an original that there presumably just producing like they did for the network except it's going to be on peacock instead, and I think a twist that will be fun when it happens, is that? Jimmy Fallon Seth Meyers late night shows, which they record those at like five in the afternoon in New, York City and then the air at night, eleven, Thirty and twelve thirty at night. They are going to be released at eight eastern so in prime time, so if you're a fan of a late night, talk show and you don't want to stay up and watch late night. You Watch A. Much earlier like three and a half hours earlier on peacock however. They're not doing that yet. Because of covid nineteen in fact, fallon just went back to his studio last week, but it's with a skeleton crew, and the production logistics of getting that show ready to go by eight instead of eleven. Thirty is a bit much right now. So that will they say? That will happen in the future, but I think that's an interesting. Interesting idea to the idea that you know they've got this original content that they've. They've built up for linear broadcast, so it's like well. That's gotTa Time Slot. It's eleven thirty and eight o'clock is for you know dramas, or sometimes or reality shows, and with peacock NBC can say, or or it's for Jimmy, fallon, or it's Myers whatever whatever you WanNa Watch. At eight o'clock at night or nine o'clock night, go right ahead. on peacock so. Interesting. We'll see how that goes when they when they try it out. And I got to use the APPS I use the IPAD. App I use the Apple TV APP for Peacock I was frustrated by the TV APP because they're doing that thing so many. Not as much as as before I, think this is. I think every apple. TV APP developer. Has this great idea that they're going to reinvent? How video works on the Apple TV? And then they realized that they probably should stop fighting it and just do what apple does, but here it is again. Peacock like doesn't really use the UI conventions of. Out other apple TV APP, so you Kinda have to learn how to use it? which is super annoying. I did find a funny quirk which is in their movie interface on Apple, TV. They have movies that are available. They show you. The rotten tomatoes score, but only if it's good. I mean you could click through when you can see it for all of them right, but on the top level where it's just the tiles it'll be like. Jurassic Park Eighty Percent Jurassic Park to also movie terrific part three Yup. This is the movie. The Matrix Ninety eight percent. The Matrix to sixty four percent animatrix three is a movie. That's available here. That made me laugh like somebody had no show it. If it's a bad review, we want them to click like all right. Okay. We can do that a bigger. Interface problem is that they don't have dates on the episodes. It doesn't say like when this episode dropped. And that makes it hard to tell this this week's I. is this new? you know or is this? Today's is this today's Jimmy Fallon or yesterday's Jimmy Fallon. Is particularly difficult when they do lean on late night, talk shows. This is this is an example where it's the worst right, but actually, and it's worse than that because they also sort their seasons. With the first episode of the season at the top, which means if you want to get to the if you use that navigation to get to Jimmy, fallon or Seth Meyers you have to. You have to go in and scroll endlessly bottom, because because the most recent episode is at the bottom of the list, it's season whatever episode one hundred and twenty-five or something so the? There's some clear mistakes here where the they you know I. Don't know I. It's not as well thought as as it should be in an again. Corona virus, related stuff and and They were planning on the. They've had to scramble. I get all that, but there's a lot of questionable decisions in here I I. Imagine they work. Working out corona virus isn't the reason you slit your episodes that way. But. I'm saying that they're there, but their development team could have been quite disrupted by it right like and and they ended up having to ship something that was not as far along as they would've liked because they had to send their people home, and and and you know I'm willing to give them a little bit of a break. Because they their entire strategy had to change because the Olympics got moved, and presumably their development team got sent back to their houses but yeah, it's a it's A. It's a great example of somebody making a very simple. You decision saying Oh, yeah. We'll just sort the episodes of this way, and not thinking through what that meant. In terms of something like a talk show where like because I went there, and I was like I want to hear Jimmy Fallon went back to the studio this week. I want to see that episode and I couldn't tell what episode it was. When it was from, and when I went to the to get the definitive answer, which was to look in the list of episodes, it was at the very bottom of very long scrolling list. which you know, this is all fixable, but it's dumb. It's a work in progress, peacock premium, and when If there's a show that I'm actually GonNa Watch on it like AP bio when that comes back I'm GonNa Watch the English soccer on it now, but when ap bio comes back, I might sign up for peacock premium, plus so I'd have to see they're stupid. This episode is brought to you by meant mobile, the folks who can cut your wireless bill to fifteen dollars a month with their futuristic approach to wireless. If you'll still using one of the big providers this year, have you are yourself what you're paying for? Between expensive retail stores, inflate oppresses hidden fees. There's opportunity to take advantage of people like you right. 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Keep your same phone number or your existing contacts, and just ditch all wireless bill and start saving with Mint Mobile Justin I believe that meant sent you a package. That included A. A Sim Oh, yeah softwood that experiences like it actually reminded me of my very nice experience I had when I travel to Ireland or the UK, and I used a a prepaid wireless there and it comes in a little, a little credit card kind of thing, and it's got a Sim Card and the Sim card is perforated at the different sizes of Sim. Card, which for iphone you want, the the smallest of those sides Oh. That's good. Yeah so you can. If you've got an older phone, that's got a bigger one. You perforated at a different place and it goes in that. That trae Trae, so it's very clever. And I put it in an iphone that was actually it's actually my Iowa's fourteen test. IPHONE and so popped it in there, and went to their website, and put in the Little Code that's on the back of the card and it goes great, and then the carrier shows up mobile shows up on the on the IPHONE. Do and they have. They have an APP to, but I actually just used their website, and you put in the code on the card and and that's it now. If you're moving your phone, you do. There's a little bit more to do in order to move your phone number. In this case, they generated. They told me they said. Where are you? And then they generated a phone number based on my area code, and which was super convenient, and that was it. I have a new phone with a new phone number. That's nice that you can just say like Gimme a number with this code. Yeah Yeah and I. I'm now thinking that you know. Should I have made it some? You know like a like new. York, area, code or something so. Yeah. That's right or Hawaii. Yes, right Loa means you're calling me on my mobile phone, but I didn't do that I. Just have a four one five. Because that's the code record here in the Bayer. To get your new wireless plan for just fifteen bucks a month and get the plans shipped to your door for free go to mobile dot com slash upgrade. M. I. N. T. M. O. B. I. L. E. DOT COM slash upgrade. Go the right now. Cut Your Bill to fifteen bucks a month at mobile dot com slash upgrade our thanks to mobile for their support of this show and all of rely FM. Coming and it is here apple, news plus audio stories There was a few things related to apple. News in the Audio Department that happened in the middle of this week. The most interesting one is the podcast which will talk about in a bit, but I'll give everybody the kind of the rundown of what they do in here. so apple, news plus audio stories is available. It was available with IOS team. Point six which I expect will be the final point release the irs thirteen, but who knows at this point, never know never know around ten stories Poe week, was it? Oh sorry, it's twenty twenty around twenty stories Poe Week going to be professionally narrated by professional voice actors. Zappala set voice actors. You can switch between reading and listening at any point, so if you're reading an article that has denomination, you can choose to pick it up as audio or vice versa, and go back to where you were in the story, which is just Nice Nice you don't have to do that I. Don't think that was required, but as good functionality you only for the moment, which is peculiar to me because Apple News plus is only available in three markets, four markets, which is US UK, Australia, and Canada. And I don't understand why they haven't made it available. Everywhere I mean I would understand it. There's maybe some publications that they only have in one market but I. Surely there is a crossover for at least some of them and considering everybody's paying the same amount of their grabber. I don't understand why they wouldn't have either a made it available or be. It's only four markets right like you. have an option for every one. So, that's a weird. That's just like a weird wrinkle in this to me. I think that it potentially shows that that may potentially shows apples hesitancy with anything news plus related, because it really seems like it's not going the way they wanted, but Yeah, that's peculiar I find that strange especially because apple news today, the podcast hosted by Shumita Basu and Duarte Gel dino who are named their off work is in the show like, but they came from a WNYC show to this so like they are known as producing Daily News shows hosted by every weekday. We'll talk about that more in a bit, but that is this available everywhere. Except when except, but in the apple news APP, it's only available in the US, but it's on apple podcasts and podcast apps around the world so right so you know I think that this desert. which will get to administer why? That's the case? Apple News also been added to call play which makes sense the support. The audio features. They've added. And then the last component of the apple news stuff is a new focus on local news. It's currently in a half full of major US markets and features a diverse collection of local publishes including a major newspaper in each region covering sports culture dining, whether politics that kind of stuff, which is local to those areas, there is still going to be curation from Apple News Editors, and they'll be an element of customization for everybody. What do you think about the local news pivot? It's an interesting idea I. Have the same concerns I've always had about Apple News, plus which is that? I'm not sure it solves. The problem of how you fund journalism. Modern journalism has lots of issues of how how the money comes in now that they're not getting. The newspapers especially are not getting the money that they used from advertising. In print classified ads and things like that and it's been A. It's a decades long issue for for local journalism and I think that Apple News plus there are scenarios where Apple News plus can help. I'm not sure if they got it here because it sounds like they're basically like making a partner so bay area. It seems to be that the San Francisco Chronicle as their partner, chronicle is presumably getting money for this. And then they're back filling with other stuff. You know sports blogs for the region sports you know and and other local blogs and things. I don't know like I want I feel like they're that apple news plus there's some aspect of apple news plus that might actually. Benefit local news, but I'm not sure this, is it? I'm not sure that this really solves anything. Because in the end you're getting some curation. That's nice as an apple news user, but in terms of who supporting the reporting. That's going into generating the data sources. For the CURATION, I'm not entirely sure this is something. I joked about half joked about in a previous episode about how if Apple Really cared about? Local journalism it should fund local journalism I'm not sure this is the way you know from based on what we know about. Apple News Plus especially I'm not sure this actually. Does that. And that's the problem like I I would love apple to more actively fund like actively fund local journalism, and then had that result. Pour into apple news plus. They aren't doing that and I understand their business reasons why that may not work for them either but I'm not sure like the San Francisco Chronicle is going to ultimately benefit from being the hub of content at the center of the Bay area. Four Apple News plus I just I. saw file it under the same thing as all the other stuff I'm having a hard time seeing how apple news plus benefits publishers. I think it's at least like something else to to try like in a way that maybe a lot of local news agencies do not have. Good monetization strategies and like this May. This may be a better thing for local news than than the lodge publications the problem. Is that a regional anytime? You've got so. They're talking about like us. Cities here right so you've got the newspaper in the city. I mean probably have a subscription plan for acts probably have a paywall on a subscription plan. I'm not sure getting your local people to sign up for Apple. News plus and get your newspaper. That way is remotely as good as getting them to sign up for you. That's always the like that's and every and Sunset Avenue which is why I've said before, and I actually kind of serious. Here is the solution to. Local, good local news is somebody needs to put money into good local news, and if apple thinks that apple news is a strategic thing, and I would actually argue that apple if apple felt like one of the ways that it wanted to leave the world better than it found, it was by informing. people about what's going on in their regions that this could be a fundamental tenet of apple and apple news where apple is more aggressive about funding. Local news organizations whether it's the existing ones or new ones in order to generate content that feeds into Apple News, plus but what they're doing is they're trying to kind of like have existing organizations subvert their own business model for apple's model, which is really rigged to benefit apple and I don't think it works so that's that's the problem I have with it is that? That there is a solution to be had here, but it doesn't seem like apples actually trying to solve it, and this doesn't feel to me. It feels better than what they were doing before, but I'm not sure it actually solves any of the fundamental problems with apple, being wanting to insert itself as a middleman between the publishers and the readers, so I'll ask though. Is there like a good business case to doing that funding local news. Like what? What will apple out of I well I mean I could say if apple funded local news, it would get content out of it for Apple News and the Apple News content could be very good, local and national and regional news, but it would also be saying we are also improving the quality of journalism in the United States. Let's say because everything they do for Apple. News seems to be just in the United States. But if you're. Kind of a long game kind of a you know we're going to do this because it's right, and we're going to figure it out as we go, and we're going to build a business here and honestly Apple News, plus is not that Apple News plus is a somewhat cynical aggregation play for apple where they wanNA, take a big chunk of money off the top, and that figure that the accumulated glow of being inside an apple. APP is going to benefit these new sources, and while most of these new sources don't have very good apps and don't have very good websites. Apple News isn't a very good APP either so. Just to just to call it what it is. This is apple trying to sneak money out of a market that is dying and desperately trying to find a new business model, and it feels to me and has felt all along a bit like what apple trying to do. Is claim that they're coming in to save journalism? But what they really want to do is pull money out of out of the readers, pockets, and not share much of it with local journalism, and that's why Apple News. That's why I think ultimately unless they really rethink it Apple News as a failure. All Right? Let's talk about today. which is the US because maybe even more interesting to me and you? We've been talking for a long time. What are apple going to do in the podcasting space? We mentioned the Zane Lowe interview series, and that was something they were bringing over, but that was like a half step. This is a full on step. This is a brand new show daily right like it, so this is a big production now. We. Wondering how are we going to do this type of content? Are they gonNA, make exclusive content and be like spotify. They're going to embrace the open web and give it to everybody. Let's say it's a little bit in the middle. Apple are saying this is available on Apple podcasts. That's the only place that they're going to say. That's not a surprise to me right the the even if apple made something that was available everywhere that when they promote when they talk about it, they say it's on Apple podcasts I mean why not, because so much of the podcast ecosystem just says that any way at the moment. Right like I don't have. Any issue personally with them. Choosing to market, their show is saying it's on Apple PODCASTS, but it is not exclusive to apple podcasts. Says stands right now. It's not the only place you can get. It is searchable and subscribe able in every pot. Yap that I've tried pocket costs overcast Castro. You can search apple news today. Find it subscribe you. Get the episodes because it is based on RSS. Apple have done a little work to obscure the feed. It's not unlike the usual places that you would find it when you subscribe in. The podcast apple, itunes, or whatever, but it is based on an opener. Assess feed third party. APPs have been able to add it to the. Directories you can subscribe and you can listen, so they may not want to encourage you to listen into apps the on apple podcasts, but you can. Which I think is a pretty good compromise personally. Because then not. Warping what it is to be a podcast, but they are using them marketing. To promote their own service. I think that's. A fair enough compromise. What do you think? Apple's always gonNA promote apple podcasts. I would say. I don't know to what degree they're hiding the RSS. Feed here, but like they shouldn't. And I've seen reporting from lots of people that like. The IRS feet is not in the typical place in the apple. PODCAST Eric is possible to get the fees out and you kind of can't do that. Okay well I mean that that's my only. My only real complaint is that if they are also making this available to other podcast APPS, there should be some link somewhere. If there is then grade, there should be some link somewhere on their website when they're talking about this. Where maybe it's a footnote, which is you know or any other podcast? APP using this feed, but they're primarily promoting apple podcast. Because you know step one is yeah. It's not just in apple podcast. Great step two is. You should probably not try to hide it in the. In the bathroom. Behind a locked door in a filing cabinet with a sign on the door. That says beware the Leopard. Leopard, that's a reference Right, where it's like no, no, it is on Apple podcasts secretly. It's also elsewhere is. Not a great look. I think they should should like I, said put it in a footnote somewhere. Don't try to hide it. Yeah I would prefer them to do that, but better than than wiring it into apple podcasts, and they're not having it be available in Europe. Yes, absolutely better than that, and that's kind of one of the very conceivable things that we expected them to do right, but I am actually really happy with the fact that they have done whatever work. They needed to do to create a podcast which is delivered virus. They did that now this this didn't happen like within a week like apple not been doing this for a while. They could very easily made the whatever the not. Very well conceivably could have done whatever they need to do to make this exclusive to them, but they didn't do that. I saw a lot of technology outlets reporting on this saying it was exclusive to apple podcasts, which kind of worked me a little bit because like it wasn't hard to do the work to see that that wasn't the case. but people just kind of read the press release, and then just reported on it that way link that kind of. Of stuff frustrates me I find in a lot of technology prester reporting on the podcast industry to be pretty bad on the sly which is just over the unpicking here for no particular reason but there's a lot of like. We got a press release, which is going to say what the pressure Lee said. Move on when I feel like this stuff could be should be covered a little bit of nuance any who I listened to the podcast itself Jason. Actually pretty good like. I enjoyed the various of the topics. It is to US focused for me. Especially, because this is this like isn't region locked? You can get it anywhere. I would love to see them build out a little more but it so far has been pretty US focused. the stories that they get into in detail in Apple News, so they do kind of like a headline rundown the start where they don't particularly talk about any specific news story, but they'll. They'll talk about briefly like what's going on in the world, but then they they link to and talk about the stories that they talk about depth. They linked to news stories, which makes sense. It's like vertical integration You can tell they've hired professionals across the board. It is entertaining. It's informative and is produced while in my opinion, they use a lot of audio clips and they mixed him really well they do that typical like mainstream podcast. Sound design of they're always being music playing, but. I don't like that, but they do a good job of it I think. Like, it's not it's not really in your face, but there is a little bit of that in there where they have music interstitial, and they have sometimes music beds, not constant, but they're. They're right, but I think that the sound design is good I think that they've done an from in my opinion and especially could drop considering I. Bet there's a studio this supposed to be recording in the not right, and so I've I follow of of the hosts on twitter now and they've been posting like pictures of of how of like this ups and stuff which I think is fun. In general I'm I'm kind of just pleased that. They are allowing Shumita Duarte to be. Public figures. That produce the show and they they actually have interactions with each other like not just reading new stories like. It feels like there is an actual personality to the program. Which I think is important and I'm pleased that they are doing that because. I don't think I could have told you. That's exactly what apple would have done. If I would have known this project was going to exist right. Yeah, it's not the apple old apple approach, which would have been nameless faceless. Again kind of extruded from out of Apple. Here's a product and instead it's this product needs. And and that it's GonNa live or die based on that. An apple is the brand, but you know that's not how. A podcast that was not. Driven by personalities like that would not be a successful podcast, so they've hired people who know what they're doing it clearly here. It was really interesting to me that they basically wholesale hired team from WNYC. I find that to be very. Small on a sleigh like. Just just get some people that know what they're doing. If you want to do this, don't rebuild the wheel, right? Let them do this and I can tell you as somebody who has worked in the media for a long time that. Apple coming to you and and the media so economically pressured as we've been saying all along here. Has Been a tough couple of decades in the media, and you have the world's richest company role in and say we want to set this up and we'll hire you like those people are getting probably better jobs better pay better benefits. Better working conditions like. The this is one of those things where. Being hired by giant company to do essentially what you already do. Is, that's pretty. That's a pretty sweet deal. It's kind of hard to turn that down. So it's it's. It's not surprising that they were able to go in and just hire those people way. It's also probably the right thing to you're right because that's the kind of content they want. Yeah, don't just if you can find people already doing it then go for that. I think it makes sense. I'M GONNA. Keep this in my rotation I, and I've been I listened to a couple of episodes. So I could be prepared for the show, but today's all's like I. WanNa hear about that. It was about John Lewis. and. I was like I. Feel like I haven't had much exposure to him as being someone from the United Kingdom but I'm kind of aware of him and some of the stuff that he's done browse like no I would like a little bit more background, and it gave me that so I'm GonNa keep the show around and I I have genuinely been enjoying it so I actually think that they've done a very good job and at least say that. I'm happy that they didn't go for the complete. Like bad time line with how apple would produce a con- like podcasts of their own. So you know like you know what I mean like. This isn't completely lockdown. It's locked down a little bit, but it's locked down in a way. That I'm personally comfortable with like mark. You want but just let me get it the way that I want and don't completely read while opener. Assess is all about and I'm. I'm pleased that they've taken that The taken that that slung on it for now at least. That, they continue that way, yeah! This episode is brought to you by friends over at them. Today's Internet users expect a fast web experience. No matter how good your content is, how good your marketing has been to bring to your page if it's loading slowly on the all that just gonNA, leave with us monitoring from paying them. You're able to discover how website performance issues affect your experiences, so you can take action before your impacted. How people visit your website depends on so many varying factors whether the you're looking at a browser device platform. Platform no matter what they're using. Things can make make a different experience, and you Wanna be able to identify that before you see these bad things happen to people. You Wanna be able to make informed optimizations to deliver a great performance. Those who madam most you your visit, real user monitoring is an event based solution, so it's built scale ability meaning that you can monitor millions of page views about compromising the fidelity of your historical data, maybe even more importantly, not breaking the bank in the process either. Get live visited incites today Viru monitoring from kingdom go to pink dot com slash relay FM right now, and you'll get a fourteen day free trial with no credit card required than when you sign up, use the code upgrade at checkout to get a fantastic thirty percent of your first invoice, our thanks to ping them from Sola wins for their support of this show and relay FM. So Mr Jason Snell. It is time for Alice summer of fun topic today. We've been talking about Os. Big Sur recently, and we are this time next time actually we're going to talk about big Sur during the summer of thumb, because it's a fun operating system, but along with the vast visual changes in big Sur which we've been talking about, and many of our podcasting colleagues have been talking about apple also completely changed the typical sounds. You hear when using the operating system. Yes, it, considering this is a podcast which is an audio medium Why don't we review those sounds? This would be less useful if I wrote a story about this on six colors. Right s like let me describe. How the sounds of changed, and you can picture it in your mind or listen to it in your mind how you imagine this or We could use a medium like a podcast. And actually play the sounds. So for the record these found in slash system slash sounds and slash systems slash library slash component slash call audio dot component slash support slash system sounds Yep. Yep, so system the slash system slash sounds you're beeps are and then you can do custom beeps like my voice. That says BP from sound master. In I think that's a user directory sound library sounds I, think is where you put those but the the defaults are in slash slash sounds, and then the other sound effects are found in that long chain with its down in components Corrado. Dot Component, and that's where you get things like emptying the trash. Those living there. Now there's been lots and lots of sounds have changed, but I don't think we're GONNA listen to all of them right. Yeah we are Mike all of them. Okay, we go to all of them great then let's go all the ones that I could find. Okay, so we're GONNA to start with the beeps, and then we're going to move onto a few. Not Not a lot of the system sounds change, but some of the most obvious ones have, but they Abbas redone all the beeps. And what's really interesting in my in my research for this is apple has redone the without changing their file names, but they have changed the names in the sound control panel, which is Super Weird right, so you have. So, so I'll give you an example. Okay, so there used to be an alert called pop. If you go to system preferences and Click on sound and choose an alert sound, there used to be an alert called pop. It's now. The file, the corresponding violence slash system slash. Sounds was popped up wave or pop AF I. Don't remember it's pop was the name of it? Now. There is still a file called pop. It has a different sound in it. And the name pop doesn't appear in the system. Sound Control panel anymore. Instead the name bubble plays the sound file called pop. Noah. Yourself why? Why not? Just rename? Why not just rename the files and have those names appear rather than using the old white, rather than changing presumably the system preferences APP somehow to map new names to old file names, and my answer is I. Don't know I guess they had a reason. I can only assume that this is like compatibility thing right away. Right towed it into something somewhere, and it was yeah. If you've got an APP or a script or something that says play the sound file pop. Yeah, it'll play it even though now in the U I, it says bubble that's. I don't know if I write a script and say play bubble. Will it play pop or will it fail? I don't know. Something to check in the Betas I guess. So. Are we gonNA will. We're going to compare the old to the new is how we're. GonNa do this we are. We are going to do that. Thing you ready, yeah! All right. So we're GONNA. We're GONNA start with Catalina and this is. This is a sound called Basso. And it will be followed by big Sur where Basso has been renamed Mezzo. Ready Yeah. HERE'S BASSO! Are that sound. That's my. That's my era sound. Okay get ready for Basso Mezzo. I'll no. No that's right. Now it's not. Because what I like about Basso is in my mind. My computer is going. Right Rhino that's what I was going. To say I don't like that key played at one again for me. Get Basso. That's so. No I. Don't like it. For? Some reason I'm so mezzo sounds like the oldest sounds. That one sounds like it came from like the eighties something. I don't like that one. All right, so we move on Yeah. I mean I I kind of agree with you that the use of Basso is to get. Your attention is like up. Something bad happened in the new ones like aren't like. Sad trombone like a little bit, but yeah, it's not aggressive. Enough. I think all right. Here's a sound called blow except in big Sur it's called breeze. Okay, so they're related there. Some of those some of these are related. Yeah, it looks like they're having fun like Basso and Mezzo. Blow in breeze. Others don't make any sense at all so anyway. Here's blow Catalina. And here's breeze in big Sur. Much Nicer. That chime unless a blowing on the let less blowing on the on a bottle. Blow definitely is yeah. I don't i. don't really like the blow sound very much, but I actually really liked the breeze sound. I think that's just a good sound as a good interface sound. All right, so that's a thumbs up. THUMBS UP! Okay, so they're. They're one for two now one up one down just to confirm. These sounds. Do they all have a place in the operating system, or you just choose your era sound. I think you choose for your error sound. Although they there may be apps that play them as well right, but these are all available to you, and in certain instances you might want to the other I mean, and there are some specific. That will get into lay around, but the era sounds mostly like you can choose them. Okay, that's fine down. That makes sense. All right here we go this. This one is called bottle not to be confused with blow now. Maybe this we understand why they renamed these, although why they renamed them only in one place, and not in the files themselves. This is the Catalina bottle. And then it'll be followed by pebble. With what bottle is now called in Big Sur? Bottle. Pebble! I like that. Because pebble sounds like dropping a stone into the water. And it sounds quite like bottle, but it's better but more yeah, but more more texter more nuance I. Agree I think that's actually a nice thing about it. Can I hit bevill again? Sure, you want to hear it you the new the new Perez. Yeah like that. S A good one. That's a good sound. All right. That's like okay. Apples apples up to two one now in the news and the new sound Derby, this tunnel to a different kind of game than I was. Expecting Enjoying it okay, this is a this is a sound called frog. Except in big Sur, it's called jump. kind of makes sense right so here. Here's frog. This is This is a good one. And here's jump. Oh. No, that's not enough. It's not enough noise. I don't particularly like frog. Right it's it's fine. I don't like I I. I don't particularly it. But there's just not enough noise in jump is to show. I like frog I actually use frog in one of my scripts to say, the script is done. And I've used it in other I. Use it a lot because it's really not obtrusive. I'm worried that jump is so not obtrusive as to have become invisible. I think that that's a similar problem with Mezzo like jump, so they are. You might not even really notice them that she doesn't alert sound work if if you aren't actually alerted by if an alert sound. Falls. In the forest, but there was nobody around to hear it right. Sure yeah data could be. All right this. This is a sound called funk, Yep. However. A big news breaking news here took breaking news in big Sur. It's called. funky! Well okay I'm expecting more if you're going from funk to funky. Saw One letter more at least okay. Here we go here's funk and then funky. Okay, that's too much more too much more okay, funk. I feel like his pretty classic one right like I feel like I hit. Maybe funke's my funk mine. I use funk for one my typical lot sound. I, the one said already that I used for I must use it somewhere else because they hear a lot, but funk look now. That's the sound that I hear and that's a good one is like a dunk that feels pretty pretty like classic the Mac the May. funke's too much I think I think there's too much noise going on there. They've added a little bit. It's sort of a single. Blip versus this like little, little mini music composition, and and as with frog, I kind of just wanted to be a blip. So we gotTA. We gotta dislike for that Oh. Apples down now to three. It's not trending well. Okay, we're moving onto. A sound called glass. which has been renamed crystal? In Big Sur. So from glass crystal. You can see the family resemblance here they are. Good Yeah Yep retains. The good part of glass, but makes it sound more Modin. As Joe Steel in the discord, says more expensive sound and I would agree. More. Saying yeah, we fancied that that glass sound up. It is I never really liked that glass sound, and it's because it's maybe two unpleasant and jarring, but then again I also leave the room. When somebody else's emptying the dishwasher 'cause I find the sounds really unpleasant. and crystal is better because it's a little less of that. A little less jarring I think. And it's more expensive. It's more expensive name right here. Here is one that I, really enjoy. What apple did with the naming system because it's a sound called. And in big, Sur, it's called heroin good. A skit all right? That's okay well. Let's the name naming convention. He did to the sound. Let's see what they did to the sound here they are. Who? Can I hear those again? Okay, all right, so it's basically the same sound, but there's a little prelude to the sound. I didn't know that alert sounds needed a little a little progressive role in yeah I think I like it here we go. Woo bloop-. Like that one I do too. Yeah, it's it's a little saucy. It's a little. Little personality. It's like hey, you know that hero sound well I'm going to jazz it up a little bit. It's got like island. Feel to it, you know, Yep. It's like we're taking the hero to the Caribbean or something. I like it. It's busy heroin now, but yeah, exactly right well I mean like you took hero to the Caribbean and now it's heroin. Yeah. Okay. Our next one is called Morse. Morse Code Yep. And it has been replaced with a sound called Ping. Pong. Oh, sorry sound called Pong. Did that because the next cool. Next one is called, Ping, and there's also well pop. Their names I, mean I don't WanNa be the prison at apple who has to name sounds okay, because it's hard, and then people like us making fun of them, but still is worth making fun of okay, so it's more which becomes pong not to be confused with Ping which became something else and we'll get to that. Here is Morris followed by Peng in big Sur. Okay, play those again. It's a little more poppy I. Actually think better because because you can miss. Morse but pawn. You can hear it. Audible is still not a good for me. It's not great sound, but it is. One, I think that's all we're really measuring here is. Did you improve? These sounds sub for some people a so okay all right now we're GONNA. Move Onto Ping, which is not Peng and has been renamed sonar also by the way sonar not to be confused with submarine. which is a totally different sound this ping? It has become sonar hunt for Red October. Fans might enjoy it here. It is ping followed by Sonar. that's interesting because the ping sound honestly feels like it belongs in the new sounds. Can I. Hit him one more time. Please okay. Oh. Therefore you. Know Memento there was an error. Okay here we go. Yeah, okay. I'm fine with that. I I like it. It's a good sound. I am going to say I dislike it, so we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA. Make this a split decision right I. Like the purity of the Ping. It is just it's just a tone and I. Don't think you need to bubble it up with like a with. Like I don't. Say then I prefer Ping but I don't dislike. SONAL so maybe we could, but maybe we could call that dislike the because I like the sound that it had perform our. It'll all right, so you prefer the old sound. I prefer all sound, but it's not like with some of them where I dislike the new one but I think that is a regression because I think paying is better sound. So we'll, we'll set what is called that dislike soon enough to create scoring category so now submarines use Ping's and sonar and also can generate bubbles. And they submerge. These are all names of sounds, but this is the sound formerly known as pop which has become bubble. Thing that that the pops so that kind of makes sense. Yep, here they are Bob Bob and no top and bubble go. I prefer bubble. Yeah? Yeah I, think so. I don't really think pop is much of anything. Right I think that's it is that although bubble is showy and I've said it a couple of points that I think. You. Don't need to just dress. Necessarily dress up sound, but sometimes it is either delightful, or like goes from being something. You've missed something you might actually notice. I'm not really sure why anybody would use the pop sound. It's too. That's way to easy to miss not one. Yeah, I don't like that one. Okay so If you're scoring home thank you. It's six to four in favor of apple's new sounds. We're moving on now to per. Which has been renamed pluck. We need to talk about this one. From a cat to a chicken apparently, or is someone doing something terrible to a cat? I'm not sure I. Don't know. Maybe we'll find out in the sounds, but this one volt at the naming ones seems rather peculiar. Right here we go per followed by pluck. No. No. I agree with you. I love. The sound that I didn't even know what's called per. But I I like it. It's like I like PA. Really because they're stera sounds that. Ice Sometimes here on my computer and I. I know somebody sounds so but I. don't know where I'm hearing. Probably you're saying that some some APP US using it as an alert. Yeah, yeah, I think I much prefer. To Pluck Oh. Yeah pluck pluck sounds like somebody hit a golf ball. Plot honestly sounds quite similar to. I think it's pebble. The WOM- rates dropping in the water. That's this one twosome, yeah? No super similar, but they sound. Yeah, they they both sound to me like dropping a ball into something or whatever. Yeah not unlike like that one. Okay! We're GONNA. move onto, so sue me now, so Sumi is a beep sound with a or at least name for a beep sound with a legendary history because there was a lawsuit. From records to Apple Computer. Because when apple was founded, they ended up having to reach an agreement with the Beatles about Apple Records Apple Music. involve basically saying they wouldn't get into music and sound related things, and of course it's the computer evolved they. Did that, and there were some lawsuits, ultimately, apple basically bought them out, and that's why there's apple music and stuff like that now is apple basically wrote? A my understanding is a huge check to the the Beatles estates. An apple records to do this. But the joke was that they put the sound in there as a reference to that by naming it, so sue me. But they spelled it Susumi, so this is a classic very old Mac reference But what are they and they left the name, so sue me continues to be the name, but they changed the sound. So you're gonNA hear, Catalina, Susumi and then. Big Sur Susumi Sue. US assume me. Big Sur Susumi studio here we go. So all Susumi is like. and New Susumi as like tink. It's like to. I, guess yeah, can I get those ones again, please? Yes, here. We go the sumit's. I don't like it. I like the lost Hof which is a like you can hear is a modernized version of the one that it's replacing, but I don't know why it does. That Pau Star I. Don't agree the Star. I feel like just a modernized version of sesame would have been better. Providence change it yet. They put a little too much a little too much. Action on. It was fine All Right? We're GONNA move onto submarine. Which is one that I've used a lot and it been replaced with something called submerge. See what they did there. Here we go. Okay I mean I would say that that was so. Like if I know. I was just as surprised as you that this is what this was submarine. Sometimes, it's a very stereo sound by the way does a left right pan kind of thing that submerged doesn't do so much. I think this is funny. Because they backed off of the like re, verb and stuff. That's in submarine, and they've simplified it with submerge, which I think is funny, since they said Oh that we change the sounds because modern Mac sound systems, and it's a more immersive of thing, but in this case they kind of went away from the like super skew more vic I guess sound to something that's much more almost like a like a very simple alert tone. and I'm not sure I not sure like it. That's why I like it. I'M GONNA. Play it again just so we can ponder. The originals better. I appreciate the simplification there, but I. I like the original. Okay! Apple is tied now six six. Okay. We have one last alert, and then we're going to move onto. Some system sounds we have a handful of system sounds this is tank. which has been renamed in big Sur. BOOP. From to BOOP, everybody from ten. BOOP here we go. I mean there's not a lot to go on. No feels now. It feels like there's some sort of psychological exam that we're going through. I prefer Boop I guess because it's just a more pleasant sound, I agree with you actually that it is less earsplitting and annoying, whereas tink is so high pitched that it makes me, WanNa. You know. Swat, whatever insect just buzz, pass my ear. Yeah, I wouldn't use either of them. No neighborhood I, but but tank suffers from that like you would never hear this problem and boop is at least a little bit more noticeable, but. They didn't really go very far away to carry boop. All right we're going to move on to some system alerts. These don't have names although they do have file names. I find that the file names don't always describe what's actually happening when they're played. We can talk about that if you want, but but I'm GonNa just introduce them by their names. Their file names then you can judge just how they were regardless of how they're used with. The new sound improves on the old town, so the sound is called drag to trash. And a new one. No No, no. No. No. I don't like that. I mean it's so dramatic. Oh trash. It's in the trash I as That's a bad sound like. I actually would say that even the ones that I don't like. They're not necessarily bad. That one is just bad like it doesn't sound good at all, not up for that, yeah! I'm with you. On that track trash sound is like feels iconic. I know well. They did something to the icon. By the way if they change any of these sounds before it goes final, we are taking full credit. Okay, yeah, close. Packed! This is going to do this. No one else now. We got that I i. think nobody else is ever going to do this, but definitely we got there i. it's only the kind of thing ridiculous thing. Find in the upgrade. Some are a fun. Here is empty trash ready. and. So so empty trash used to be like the rustling of trash, or like crumbling a a piece of paper. The new empty trash seems to be opening a door or something. I don't know what that no. I don't want that one either. I don't I. Don't appreciate that I feel and I appreciate that I've been hearing this one for like a couple of decades now But it does have a kind of crumpled up garbage. Feel to it and this. It's like there's some crumpling there, but also like what is that clunk? What is your trash? Is it a door to the trash bin? How come from one to the other right because they've removed the like this sounds like it's going into a trash like wastepaper basket. But the problem is the crumple and the door closed are happening simultaneously. Which wouldn't happen right? You can't crumple up your trash. An enclosed the been door simultaneously, or your trash won't go in the been. So I have some logic. Problems with the sound is what I'm saying of. Course is about continuity. I don't like it. Yeah, no, I don't like it I. Don't like. Okay, WE'RE GONNA move on to. Something this is this is a little weird, so there's a sound called grab. which is named after the utility that I think no longer exists. That was the screen shot utility in ten for a very long time. That nobody used, but it was there from the very beginning, and then there's a sound called screen shot, and this is basically the new default sound. When you take a screen shot, so the files are actually different files, but this is. We're going for the old default to the new default. Ready, yeah. and. So. How do you feel about skill morphism? I'll just point out the sound of a film camera winding its film. After, taking a shot lost lost on younger users right, what's happened to us? I don't. I'm, GONNA I haven't tried. They changed the sound on Iowa. Let me find out. No they haven't. So. Why did they do that? I think you've asked a very important question, which is, why would you change the screen shot sound on one and not the other. Yeah, like I have no problem with that sound, and honestly like the screen shot sounds it's like what's the point at the screen shows sound like sounding like a photo being taken from film camera like this point in the same. I know why what else is I know why the camera has that noise like? The cameras are supposed to make that noise in certain of the world like you said legal requirement, but a screen shot is in the camera. Exactly. I mean a needed, really you. The I don't think the the camera has to make that exact sound. Right can make any sound. I like the noise if that's what we're judging on, yeah, I think I prefer it. I'm I'm torn about this. As a as a media computer tech media person, I take a lot of screen shots, and so that that that sounds like an old friend to me at the same time, it doesn't make any sense, and it's kind of unpleasant, and the new sound indicates that you've taken a screen shot. So I'm going to say I like it. Change is hard, but I'm going to go with it. I think that they're okay and changing that one. Yeah Yeah and Mike that brings us to our last sound. This this finally was called volume mount, but I think of it is the volume rem network volume dismount sound. Maybe I'm getting that wrong, but anyway this is a sound that changed. That involves external drives on your Mac. Right away. Okay. Yeah. Hit that noise along. Yeah I think that's the when I drag. My external drive to the trash ended ejects. I get this. That, all like when you drag something somewhere else in the system. Yes, James isn't saying the chat room. Just a copy finished sound. US copy share well. It's called volume mount. Okay so I. Don't know why, but it changed and now it sounds like this. Can I get those again like one of the other? Sure and I again there may be some confusion here where they've. They've kept the name the same in changed where you hear it, but this is these volume out sound. I like that one more. Yeah the the old one is like you shot your file with a laser and it's dead now. Yeah, and the new. The new one is like in the. Its moved transport at itself. You know yeah I like that one well I have some good news for apple sound designers, because like has beaten dislike, but it was ninety eight so half of your new sounds. We like the good news. Is You one the bad news? Is? It was by one point? okay, so I think overall like even though we're pretty close to like dislike, I would say that I think overall the sounds of good but I. Think the problem is that sometimes the replacements are not good right like I think that's something we can agree on that like they're actually more good sounds. Then there are bad sounds may even nine to eight, but in some places the sound that it. The new sound isn't a good replacement for the old sound right? You think that is. That is more of a an issue arrogance. That's what we're measuring is. Was it an improvement? And because I agree. I think that there are a bunch of these sounds that are fine, but We felt like eight of them were not improvements on the old sound. Yes yeah, it's. It's tricky because change I mean. That's one of the things I'm trying to fight. Here is like I took a screen shot on on big Sur and heard that sound and I thought Oh. No, no, what did you do? What did you do and I've had to think about it? And like okay do I really like the old sounder is the old sound familiar and the answer is? It's familiar and I don't like it and I'm okay with the change, and likewise that volume mount sound I think the new one is better. The old one is very familiar, and but then the empty trash southbound. I don't think the new one is a better sound, so, but it is hard to unravel our our history with the with using the MAC from being. From seeing these new sounds, but that didn't stop us, did it? Definitely didn't. This episode is brought to you by express VPN. It's fair to say we want to browse the Internet without everyone in the world being able to know what we're doing. We can use incognito mode, but even in incognito mode your online tippety could still be traced. It doesn't matter where you get your Internet from your Internet service. Provider can't see every single website you visited. That's why. Why you need. Express VPN express. VPN Is the APP that reroute so Internet connection through that Secure Service, so your Internet service provider can't see the sites that you visit. It's available on all your devices phones computers. Even your smart TV, so there's no excuse for you not to be using it. I use express VPN myself. It's so easy to connect as one of the things that. That I, love about it. It just lives on my devices, and I can connect in one tap, and I can also change wear. My traffic is being routed through so I can maybe look like somewhere where I'm not, which can be really useful in certain instances, gives that peace of mind as well which I really love is it's a great tool to have in my toolkit protect. Protect your online activity today with the VPN rated number one by C net wide go to express VPN. Dot Com slash upgrade, and you can get an extra three months free on the one year package as E. X. P. R. E. S., S., VPN, dot, com slash upgrade to love more our thanks to express VPN for their support of this show and all of relay FM. Should do some Hashtag. Oscar, great questions Hashtag ask upgrade. Hostile lasers. So that was yeah, that was trying very nice. I like to I. Don't know if we're GONNA make opponent stay, but now we're not redundantly not good good. I cash and comes from Paul. Do you think of apple silicon hardware updates? Do you think that we're GONNA? See more frequent old regular updates than we've seen for the MAC in the past few years. I think they're not going to have to wait forever for Intel right so that's good. My guess is that we're going to see an annual cycle for most apple products, and maybe some of them will be eighteen months or two years just like with the iphone. Look the IPHONE and the IPAD. There's a new iphone every year. There's a new ipad sort of their different ipad models throughout the year. IPAD prose seems to be on an eighteen month cycle I would imagine there will be some regular cycle like that and the ones that apple feels the need to revise. They will revise, I think the real question is if they? They come out with a new processor in the fall on the IPHONE. When as it hit the other products in? Is it right away or do? They choose to roll those out? They can't release every new product at the same time right they have to. They have to stretch it out because they can't release all their products in the fall it will. They can't do it, but I imagine we're going to be in a scenario where the new processor year starts in the fall with the IPHONE, and then for the next year you're going to see variants of that chip in all of their other devices so in the end. I mean some of these products have gotten to the point where they're sort of annual updates already and I imagine that will continue, and then there are some lower priority products that won't be, but for the ones where it matters. Yeah I think if they're already releasing a new chip for the IPHONE every year. Why would they not use that opportunity in that cycle to have a version of that for all of their other products, too, so I think I think it will be more regular. And it may or may not be more frequent, but it will be more regular because apple controls and Intel. Apple couldn't control. Yeah I think I pretty much everything you said the right like I. think that we will seem more frequent updates and it, but no matter what we do say it will at least be on a schedule that apple of decided for themselves by and large right. The may be one of the biggest. Things was the fact that they needed to wait for Intel or they even had features that they wanted to add, but they couldn't. Because of Intel as well right so. I think that we're going to see a more maybe more consistent for apple shed your than what we've seen over the last years especially. Yeah. Rajiv asks does Iowa's fourteen include a fine? My widget like the one in Iowa, twelve or Iowa's twelve I checked and there isn't a new. Find my widget. On us which I thought was. Peculiar. I don't remember if this as big. Sur have a fine my APP. I think it does yes. Oh, if I my well Catalina a find my APP Catalina okay because I remember like Mohave and before the only way that you could use find. My friends was through the widget in the. Center. But I find not having a fine my widget to be peculiar. It may be that like a find my widget. Isn't that US four with the way that widgets built like I. Quickly enough I think that's exactly it is that. Is that the you know? They could add a fine. My widget that like showed people's faces and HAP- tap to launch it and it will show you that, and maybe they will in a in a future Beta I bet you could make a shortcut did that maybe but so thank you say. Say like a fine my, which it might be really nice. When they have their own devices or that API for devices to to tie in, so you could have a little icon of a device in you. Tap It, and it will make a sound or go to the APP, the little tag right that's being for but yeah, but is A. Peculiar mission to have nothing Because now there will be no, which anymore where there was one before nat feels change. Maybe, it'll come back. Samos. Do you think Mac developers who getting on board with the new design for big Sur as well as the work needed to support apple silicon. Sample occasion here is if they're busy doing apple silicon support. Will they prioritize that over the design? They inherited a lot of the design It's not quite the same, but like there is a default like the default window of old looks different in big Sur. It also looks wrong like it's centered instead of left aligned, and like it's not, it clearly is not. Right. For the big Sur design I I do think that apple silicon support is gonNA come first. And then you I, support will come after that, and it depends on how easy it is this summer for them to convert their APPs out apple silicon. If it's easy, then that gives them more time to support other features or make it look good using the new design but I think that will always come second, and you know it's going to be your typical thing where some apps come out with new design support immediately and others kind of lag behind, and that's that's the way of things but there will be. You'll be able to tell because the the new design is different enough that it's not again not like the old one will look like old windows. It'll just look like. The more generic version. That isn't you know that it's sort of center and the toolbar is below and things like that, whereas the new ones will feel very very new, but everybody will get on board. Eventually I think. I think though apple silicon the priority. They're the designs GONNA wait. You gotta you gotTa make sure. Your APP runs and runs natively before you worry about you. I- conventions. As important it. You know I do hope that. Developers will do the additional work at some point so the APPS look. I mean that's that's always the case you wanna you WANNA fit the platform design. Right so you always want to do that. I think maybe more so than. Though I think there will be APPs that people will use frequently on big Sur that will take a long time if ever you know just because there are maybe more legacy is not the right word, but applications that are maybe just in maintenance mode on the Mac because it's an older platform. I don't know I, I. Hope that we'll see a lot of of applications. Do what they need to do. To make that work to feel good. Charlie asked. Do you think that Microsoft will create original TV content like apple and Amazon? So my initial thought to this, is that Microsoft seen to be playing a different game and then I realized that was a good pun, because like quite literally, Microsoft's entertainment stuff is xbox right? They are yeah. They make games and I. I think that that is a big enough business for them that requires a lot of focus and is already on the outside of the rest of their company to a degree. Imagine we'll see Microsoft in this. This business for a long time, if ever, because they have a whole entertainment thing, they tried and failed to take some of their content and turn it into TV shows before they were gonNA. Do a Halo TV show and stuff and they pull the plug on all that, so I think they've I think they've been there They didn't do it right like they've learned their lesson. I don't think that's going to happen I. THINK THAT'S A. That's a focus for them. I think there was like a Microsoft TV product thing. to Oh sure I mean. They tried all sorts of different things there, but in the streaming world it seems pretty far out of what Microsoft would be interested in doing. Good point mats made in the Chat Room. They do own the minecraft since. You? Know this stuff you can do that. And I think they have done some stuff, but anyway. It's not a case of like what apple's doing now and that's over I. Think they've regretted everything they've done and aren't going to do it going forward. I would say it's highly unlikely. Kushciak asks. Would you personally prefer a watered down version of logic on the IPAD or a full catalyst version of variety on the MAC? I prefer right on the Mac, because fair right, which is the apple us or I used to edit some podcasts I think it is everything it has every feature that I need is a podcast editor. Logics a music, APP and my my guess would be that if logic went on the IPAD instead of garage band, which is sort of based on logic, but if they did logic on the IPAD pro, their primary focus will be music features, so we might be able to use it, and that might be nice, but my guess is that any place where it's? It's falling down on the IPAD. Versus the MAC is going to be on things that podcasters us because their goal is going to be to make it a music, composition and editing tool for you know for musicians to build and produce songs, so we might be able to use it, whereas ferret is a podcasting at right, just does exactly what I need. And so a Mac version of that is going to be exactly what I need. So I would choose the product that is designed for people like me over the product that is designed for people who are not like me, but that I occasionally can use sneakily because it's better than the other alternatives if that makes any sense like. Right Apple Apple is aware the podcasters use logic, but it doesn't care. I think would be the way I. Put it whereas fair. That's what it's about. Yeah I I would prefer to have the logic experience that I'm used to on my IPAD so I didn't have to your who tool, but I I agree of you. Made for the IPAD. They would probably. Be Best, if they they streamlined the project like the products in some way which could remove things that I'm used to. Even I'm exact surface level. Use a bit anyway. I think that because you're not the priority rights, so they could remove some things that are like not big deals to their audience that kill your use of it because they can get rid of Marcus or something. But what what I? What I think is that when if and when? Pharaoh comes to the MAC. That's probably when I will try to move to right so then I have the experience across all devices I. Hope I'm not stepping out of out of turn here but I think the developer of Ferret has said that they are the. He's investigating catalyst and the MAC and wants to do it, but I think there have been no statements beyond that and it hasn't happened yet. which would lead me to believe? Believe that since it hasn't happened yet. It probably won't happen until the big Sur era right because if it had been something that could have been done for the version of catalysts and Catalina. We would have it now, so I suspect it's going to be if we get that much hoped for Mac version affair I'd probably be this fall at the earliest, and maybe later than that but I I'm with you I feel like. The value of being able to round trip between. IPAD and Mac for podcast editing is. Is a big deal so for me too because I'm used to logic and use logic on the Mac all the time now. But if I can take my projects and move them just move them to the IPAD. That's that's a reason enough for me to switch to have the same on both. And this isn't an application. I want to experience the Iowa's version of on my Mac. I for a tool like this. I would want personally to have a at least catalyst version of it. Right, so like when apple silicon comes over. Don't think that for me I want my audio editor to be an is port running like I i. don't know I don't know how I feel about that. I would need to see a lot more about exactly. How that's GONNA work? You know what I mean. Yeah, but I feel like. I would prefer something built for the platform that it's on if I'm going to be producing my shows in. Yeah there are keyboard things, but you know you got It's got A. Project based approach where it's like all in there the at Bundle, and so there's going to be questions of. How do you get things in I'm sure I'm sure it will run on apple silicon right under ipad version. It'll just run. I'm not sure that's I'm with you I I think that that's the of catalysts and I. Honestly I think that developer is so. Careful and considerate when it when when they're building features that. They wouldn't be satisfied with just checking out the ipad version, so I would hope that may also be a motivator like no. No, no, no, please don't run the IPAD version on your Mac. Run this catalyst version. Instead also a lot of us are still using computers are not going to be able to run. Those apps because we're on Intel for a while, especially PICA senators. We've got our you know I I R- AMAC, pros and stuff so. Yeah Yeah Yeah but I. I do think that it's less likely I would get anything out of logic on the IPAD although I would like to see it then cattle than a catalyst version of Ferret. And lastly this question comes from stitch does summer. Come with. Notions I guess will most in like a muppet like fashion for me. It is just leaning back shouting in the upward direction so I don't share my microphone in your is in the process I think part of the fun of the summer of fun. Shout is that it's at a distance because we're shouting up into the rafters, and I similarly I'm sort of thing and shouting upward and. That's what it is, so I I I just did it, and you just did it and I didn't I didn't wave my arms, so that might happen occasionally, but it's mostly just the the act of turning away from the microphone and shouting. It's fun. If you would like to send in a question for future episodes of the show to send a tweet with the Hashtag, ask upgrade or use the command, the question mark, and then ask upgrade in the relief fem members, dischord, which you get access to if you are an upgrade plus subscriber. If, you an upgrade plus subscribe us, and you support the show to stay tuned after the theme song because it's going to be more upgrade for you if you're not going to get upgrade plus dot, com and you can sign up. And you get bonus segments and no ads and thank you so much to everybody that has signed up. M remained as subscriber because upgrade plus has been around for over a month now Jason. So, hurry, thank you. Everybody done it. Yes, Oh, thank you everybody for that. We really really appreciate your support. If you? WanNa find shots for this week's episode. You can go to relate that Hash upgrade such three, zero seven. You can find them in your APP of choice. And I would also like to thank express VPN pinged them and mobile for the support of this week. Show by sponsoring US If you want to find Jason's welcome line, you can go to six colors dot com, the incomparable dot com Jason, also how a show here! We fan like I. Do go to relate that FM saw shows to find more, you may find a new podcast to add to your queue also. I would recommend that you follow US online. At I Mike? I M Y and Jason is at J. now and we'll be back next time until then goodbye Jason Snow. Go. Nice Nice.

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