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Trainer Talk with Alan Sherman
Originating from Jimmy Johns of Lexington studios. This is trainer tall presented by facing? Tipton on verse racing radio everywhere real network, but it was both. But not in a game play wins the Donny tall assault. We'll get rid of Ashby career win number six thousand it was all of another Doug. I'm spoiled. Trader look as a six win canals? Rosie is gotta give trader Gary Contessa his two thousand career win on dialed in never gone to them. It was animal kingdom Graham Shen skied hobby with career victory number one thousand dollar fraud. Now, here's Mike Pence and ju- fell. Hello again, everyone. Good afternoon and welcome to the show trainers. Listen to it is trainer talked presented by phasing Tipton right here on the horse racing radio network and happy to have you along for the next hour on Sirius to nineteen XM channel to a one. And everybody tuning in worldwide on our website, you're doing that at horse racing radio dot net. Mike PANA baron of the backstretch Jude fell pontiff of the pick for back together again for a brand new edition of trainer talk. And we're coming to you from our Jimmy Johns of Lexington broadcast studios and JT the show's been going on for quite some time. And it's always fun when we can have somebody in studio with us. And that's the case with our guest here tonight. Yeah, that's great. I was very happy to hear that our guest was coming in. First of all, we go back, a long ways or hair was much darker. But he's a great guy, and we had some fun together over the years, and and certainly happy that he's moved to Kentucky now. Yeah. Somebody who made his Mark on the west coast. And of course, you'll remember the name California chrome he'll be forever tied to that horse because his name is Allan Sherman. And he was part of that horse and that a magical run back in two thousand fourteen with his father art and alanon going out on his own. He is relocated to central Kentucky living in Lexington. And looking to begin that training career. Very quickly, actually. And it's nice to have him in studio with us today. Nice to see about thanks guys to pleasure to be here. I appreciate you. Having me on how often do you? Go back and watch California chrome racist. All the time. It doesn't get old. I tell you the the derby was whenever you need to pick me up. You just watch that race. And it changes your attitude a little bit. He was so such a fun horse to be around. And it was a pleasure. And I was blessed to be able to be a part of them in. Now, you get to be back here in central Kentucky. Standing stud over at tailor-made Dego spend a little time with them out there. Absolutely. I go see him as much as possible weather permitting. But yeah, he looks great. I was talking to Frank Taylor. The other day, and I mean his legs. Look, so good. It looks like he can go into training tomorrow. You look so good. Yeah. Yeah. I love your California chrome vest too. By the way. Thank you. It's got the red California the white chrome underneath it neat logo. Yeah. Yeah. He's fantastic course. And he's he's done a little travelling, which is cool been able to follow him on Twitter as as he makes his worldly ventures. Yeah. He's got one more year in Chile, and then he'll be back here for good. I think I'm not sure what the plans are after that. But he does have one more breeding season in Chile how much input do you in dad have now that he's retired in its stutter? Is that all left up to the farm? That's all left up to tailor made. They know obviously better than we do about all that. So. Lately who made the call the sentiment a tailor-made when retired while they had bought Steve Cobra now, and so they had about thirty percent of it. So that was the decision. Yeah. Than easy call. What's your favorite, California chrome moment? When in the Kentucky Derby. Yeah. Yeah. That was amazing and second would probably be the World Cup. Very proud. You know, the Americans won the race. And just it was a proud moment. Yeah. You know, one thing that I'll always remember about chrome when we went out to cover the Santa Anita derby. And this is of course, before he wins, the Kentucky Derby and the turn of foot that he displayed that day just running away from horses when when Victor said go, he just exploded. Right. And he opened up and drew off. And really just crushed the field that day did the same thing in the Kentucky Derby and for me. It's that turn of foot and seeing him just glide away from the field. That was something. I'll always remember about him. Yeah. He did have an amazing turn of foot. He showed that in quite a few races the Pacific classic. And there are so many of them that I mean when Victor asked him he would just take off, you know. You know? And he was it was an amazing. I wish he would have done that in the Breeders Cup instead of a scene where he was. But I think if he would've kicked on at the quarter pole, I think he would have won the Breeders Cup. Classic to what what do you think made them some good his heart and his will he there's I've never been around a smarter horse and a horse that loved to train and love to run as much as him. He is an amazing horse. I mean, one time he got cast in the stall. And he was pinned up against the wall and Jud, you know, horses all get scared and start thrashing. He just laid there and looked at us like, okay, come on. Get me off the wall here. We went in there pulled them off the wall, and he got right up. And you know, he was just an exceptionally smart horse. Or is don't you think the good horses are mostly smart orces, or I agree? Yeah. A lot of them have the talent. But to have the brains in the will and to go along with that. It's just made him an outstanding racehorse it's like awareness. I think the the are aware of what they're supposed to be doing. Yeah, they all have to certain degree. But but some of them really know their business, and they really want to participate in it. And that's when you get that really special horse when when they know what they're supposed to do. And they wanna do it. That's the perfect combination. Yeah. I think that goes with all athletes too. You know, there's been a lot of great athletes out there that didn't have the will and the desire to do it. And the ones that do those are the greatest. Of all time that you see when did you and dad, I know that you had a special horse with him. I think after he won the king glorious at Hollywood park last stake grace at Hollywood park at. I mean, we always knew he can run. But after he won that race. It was like this is a special one. Yeah. Did you know you had that kind of heart at that point? You know, the first time we worked in a half mile. We worked he was two years old. And we worked with a three year old of Owen Hardee's and Trump just that was our first time, we really get them on the bridal and saying, okay, let's see Seattle works, and he just demolished this three year old. And I was like all right. This horse. He'll do not going to be a nice cow bread. Yeah. That's the other thing that you think back on his run leading up to the Kentucky Derby, and all of the the knockers were saying, look, this horse doesn't have any kind of pedigree. There's no way he's going to go mile and a quarter. He doesn't have a pedigree to be a good racehorse. There's no way, but you and dad knew that you were onto something special. So put in your shoes, you're hearing all of that all of that negativity out there surrounding him. And all he does is just continue to show up run a big race. What was that like for you do tune that out? Yeah. You kind of tune it out. You know, a lot of the naysayers they don't know the horse like, we do, you know, like, I said the horse had a ton of heart. And we knew that distance. You know, you don't know if he can go a mile and a quarter until you run in the derby. I mean, I don't ever get a chance to do it. And nobody knows but he just the horse. Could you could do whatever you want with them put them on the lead sit back. He would always relax the first part of his races. He wasn't the kind of horse that was really on the bridal pool in the jock around there. You know, he would do whatever. Yes of them. And I think that helped him, you know, get that further distance as well. Yeah. There's nothing like being able to rate. Yeah. Because you see well Baffert Savon trouble right now with with that horse Coliseum just wants to run off. He's a very talented. But you know, he's he's always won't turn it up, and we'll turn it off. And if you get a horse can turn it off, and then turn it on and then turn it off. And then turn it on. That's that's another sign of really good horse when they can make a couple of runs in a race. That's a that's a good thing. Yeah. Keep put into words what it's like to win the Kentucky Derby for those of us who who never have by the way. Yeah. You know, girl in up in racing my whole life. That's the one race. She really want to win. You know, like when the Kentucky Derby, like consider it a great career, you know. And when in that race, I think I cried for about an hour after the race just at the barn. And it was like unbelievable to me for us to win that race. And like you said, I go back and watch it still to this day. Now, if you have a bad day or something. Then you go turn the race on the picture head up. That's for sure how special was it to do it with dad too. Oh, that's awesome. For my dad to to get a horse like that at this stage in his career. You know, was very special and for him to be able to enjoy all that. And he he got in. You know, go all over the world as we both did. And but he did it in his late seventies. They know obviously, I did it in the forties. When I was in my forties. But it was great for him to be able to do that. And you know, he's one twenty five over twenty five hundred races. Now been doing it for a lot of years and took to me people like that deserve to be in the hall of fame. He really seemed to enjoy it. I mean, I've I've known your data long time in in you have to, but you know, he's had a tough career sometimes and and maybe not the best horses. But man, the small you could not wipe the smile on off of his face. I mean, he was just smiling round the clock anytime anybody walked up to him. And he was always so gracious with them and took the time. And he I think he really appreciated it more than a lot of people would you know, these days. I mean, the fact that he was around back in the day and went through all the things that he did the ups and downs of being a trainer. And then finally getting that, you know, I mean, I think it was just so special for him. And I enjoyed that as much as I did watching the worst watching your dad have a great time. Yeah. It was very special just to see that you lie and anything that. That he got to go through with that horse. It was it was an amazing run. Who knows maybe we'll be able to do it again. It wouldn't that be special? Yeah. How often does your dad? Go back and watch those races. I'm sure he goes back and watch. Tuck you Allan Sherman here. On trainer talked presented by phasing. Tipton? He will begin his training career. Actually, it's already started. You move back to Kentucky as I mentioned. You're now living in Lexington. You've had one horse run in your name this year that was back in January at Santa Anita. And you're looking for more. But you told me before we started the program for you. It would be great. If you could just have a smaller select stable quality over quantity. Is that the goal? Yeah. That that would be the best case scenario, you know, instead of having fifty or sixty horses. I'd rather have ten or fifteen decent horses, you know, the to travel around, and you know, we've done a lot of traveling with horses. So we I think we kinda got that dial Dan as far as horses go into other tracks and run in, and you know, how to manage them and all that stuff. So. That would be the best case scenario would be to get about ten to fifteen decent horses. And I'd rather do that I've had a hundred horses before you know, me and my dad, and my brother, it's great. You know, it it the money's great and everything, but I just at this stage. I'd rather have a smaller better quality than quantity you find that might be more enjoyable. I think so you know, you have time to spend more time with the individual horse. You get too many horses in. It's just hard to to me. Like, I don't know. How a lot of guys do it with you know, couple of hundred horses. I mean, you never even get to see him. All I don't think, you know, just seems like it would be more headache, your your babysitting a lot with the help. And and everything else that goes along with it. You don't really get to enjoy the horse itself. How many horses? Do you have right now, we have in California we have. About forty. We got the ten in southern California about thirty northern here. I've just got a couple right now. I'm going back to the sale in March it'll be ass and going to buy a few more and and then in April as well. So the plan will be to be based here in central Kentucky year round train. Yeah. I guess what? Churchill Keeneland was jailed Qinglin. Yeah. That's the plan. Okay. All right. Where are you gonna live? Do you? Gotta place picked out yet. Not yet. I'm my house is for sale right now. When that sells I'm gonna buy something around in Keeneland somewhere or Lexington rather in Keeneland. I like nice Byzantine a couple of nights Kyun. This california. Well, he is Allan Sherman. And as we told you he is starting that training career. You know, it's funny when I was going back, and I was looking at some of those statistics and numbers, I realized and this is something I did not know that you have actually saddled a winner in your name Allan Sherman. But it came all the way back in two thousand one do you? Remember that horse? Yeah. Was it Lone Star s? Ooh. The name of the horse. I it's not sector d I'll yeah. Right. Right. Yeah. How's that? Yeah. That's search twenty thousand dollars claimer, by the way. Yeah. Yeah. I went there with my wife, and we my second life and we had four or five horses. Every did. Well, you know, it was fun. We stayed there. All the horses got claimed in like, all right. We did our job time to go back home. Packing up. Yeah. So that was two thousand one you took a little break settled another horse in eight is that what I saw is sound right yet, another horse in your name and OH. Yeah. That that was due to the fact that my dad got a a little vacation from the Chr. Dear art, we noticed you've been working very hard lately. And your kids settled one horse. Will you run? You must have been a very short vacation. So so the goal moving forward is what what what do you want to accomplish? Oh, boy, it would sure be nice to get on that derby trail again. That was sure fun. I kinda got addicted to that. But you know, just to just have a solid career. That's all new. I'm not looking to move mountains or re write the record books. I just want to have good career and solid family life and. Be able to take care of my kids and my dog and e- happy. That's all. We've come to the right place. This place is is is the mecca of horse racing. And there's a lot of people that breed nice horses year. You get on a little roll. You could really have a nice stable. I think you made a great move. He mentioned picking out these horses in March Allen that means two year old and training sales. So at that point, they're pretty much ready to run for the most part, you do a little bit with them getting right to the track that has to help to right where you're not necessarily buying yearlings and having a wait and develop them and break them and all that kind of stuff, right? Yeah. That helps I do enjoy buying the yearlings more. So than the two year old. Yeah. Haining? The two year old and trains, at least, you know, if the horse can run or not at but that being said, you hope after you buy them, and you get them home and start training on them that they continue to train as well as they were going up to that sale because they're a little chewed on pretty good getting ready for that sale. You know, which is no fault. Anybody that's people like to see the their horses work in nine. They're going to buy, you know, but me personally, I'd rather buy yearlings and be able to develop them and get them ready myself. But right now, I think the opportunity to to get rolling quicker would be to go to the two year old and training sales. You bring up a great point about the horses that worked quick at those sales. Those are typically the horses that sell the best and bring the most money for their for their consigners. So that's why everybody wants to see those flashy fast workouts, not always considered to be the best thing for the horse though. So when you're. When you're looking at those horses, you see horse go really fast like that. Are you the type of guy that says I have to have that horse or you the one that says all right? Let's hold off a little bit. And let's see how this horse comes out at workout and go from there. Yeah. In a lot of it has to do with how they do it. I mean there you get the writer that whip and driving on them, and they're asking him to go faster than they'll ever have to go the rest of their lives. You know, you're asking these horses to go in ten you know, when when when are they going to have to go in ten in a race? Never. Well, you you were Jackie you were size writer. You know, if you've been out there on one of my horses one morning, and you worked them their first eight and ten I would probably strangle you when you came back eggs and would have missed the derby completely. Mistake. A real good southern California winter, you're you're coming out party. Oh. But, but yeah, I mean, that's what I don't understand the fact that the trainers get excited about that is bizarre to me because I don't feel like I'm the lone ranger here. Everybody that trains horses would be appalled. If their exercise writer work, the horse in ten or nine and chain AAC, they they would absolutely. And they wouldn't even get convicted of murder because they had justification. Yeah. And then they lined up to buy these sources. I don't I don't quite get it. I don't either. I'd rather see a horse work in ten in change or eleven easy than a horse work in nine in change or ten all out all out. Yeah. And it makes a huge difference in the price to if you see a horse that you really liked that work like ten in three which is faster than you ever going to have to go. Yeah. I mean, that's when I used to get excited about a two year old, you know, because you you've got something there, you know, the horse has some some speed anyway. And then you can take it from there. And and hopefully they. They did a nice under control this pedigree matter as much in a two year old sale as it does. I say yearling sale. I don't think so I think you get a horse like I said they want him to work fast. They get if they work fast that that setting is the biggest issue if they vet an work fast, and you know, their legs are going in the right direction. They're going to sell describe your ideal racehorse, you could create the perfect race horse that you're going to go to the sale and by what's it look like? Frankel? I went and saw Frankel when I was in England. And and he was the perfect racehorse. I thought I mean, everything was going in the right direction. His hip in his neck was report. Everything was I mean, you look at that horse. And you just said that is the perfect racehorse. Frankel good. I. Yeah. Anybody could have picked. No. I think that's that's that's a good answer. That's a great answer. Actually. Yeah. It was so many trainers will tell us that they're looking for an athlete when they go to the sales and as important, but it's not the most important thing. They're looking for that. And you learned that California chrome. Oh, absolutely. You know, chrome he was a beautiful horse. He was put together very well offset a little bit at one knee. But when you watch him walk and watch him run he would walk through it run through it. And you could see even when you go to the sale and look at these horses. They might be a little offset might Tolan might tell out. But if they walk through it, and or at the two year old trail sales, if they you know, when you watch him work at the not throwing their legs, excuse me, all over the place, you know, the running through that little flaw. They have. So, you know, I it doesn't bother me if they're a little offset one way or another. Yeah. Every every trainer has things that they'll approve because they've dealt with them before. And they know, and they also have things that they won't won't ever buy because they've had to deal with them. So it's a matter of personal taste. It's almost like, you know. Yeah. Picking out a girlfriend or. Whatever everybody's got their own stick. Yeah. Your dad think when you tell them you were gonna go out on your own. He was happy for me. He won't he won't. He told me he said, you gotta get out of California. He says it's the opportunities just aren't there for us right now. I think they'll be greater hair. So it is time. I, you know, I just turned fifty so is time to leave the nest per se, and I didn't wehrley wanna stay in California. The the cost of everything and I love to fish and hunt. As like, you know, why not go to the horse capital of the world deficient the mission. Maybe train. Entering a couple to why not Allen Sherman. Our special guest here on trainer talk presented by phasing. Tipton? What are what are some of the things that you learned in all these years of working alongside your father, and your brother Steve that that are going to help you now that you start off on your own again. The main thing is honesty, you have to be honest with your clients. You know, if you have a horse that it's injured or can't run or you know, you just have to tell them you just have to be straightforward with them. And I think people appreciate that. You know, I'm not gonna tell you horses the next great thing if he can outrun me. And if if he has a an issue, I'm gonna let you know, and you know. When you be asked people that doesn't help anybody. You know, you just gotta be straightforward with them. And I think that's the biggest asset. My dad has he's not known to. You know, say something to the owner. That's not true. He comes right out and tells you, and that's the way I was taught. So yeah, yeah. It's black and white. And I mean in a lot of instances, it is what it is. I mean, there's nothing you can do about it. You know, they're not machines their horses. They're gonna get hurt. They're gonna be slow. They're going to be fast. They're going to stay sound. You know, just. It's different in many trainers will come on the show in Jude. How many trainers have said it's really important that you find owners that are on the same page as you philosophically so both going in the same direction going for the same goal. So if something like an issue does come up with a horse. You're both on the same page. You know, okay. We need to back off we need to do what's right for the horse and come back in a few months if necessary and get them over that hump. I think a lot of times trainers have to be educators, especially with people that are new to the business. They have to teach them that. You know, it doesn't always look like California chrome attacking now. It it has its ups and downs. And sometimes you have to be patient and the more patient. You are the better you do. And it it's it's a learning curve for a lot of people, and and you'll have to deal with that. Now, you know more because you're you're going to be the guy whose names in the program. Yeah. Exactly. And you know, we've had the same clients for years and years. And so that was great. You know, unfortunately, some of them have passed and. You get new clients than it took a while to get used to them not knowing so much about how we do things. And you know, them asking a lot of questions, which is great because I got to where I was so used to just call them and saying, hey, do this this and this narrow like, okay, that's fine. But then you get these new newer clients that are like, oh, what do you mean? You know, what do we got? You know, you gotta explain more which is fine. I don't mind doing it. But for a long time, we didn't have to worry about it. You know, we just we had great old clients in. We still do have have some of them. But isn't it's a new era out there. You know, there's a lot more. Available information available for the the owners now I mean before they you'd call them when their horses were in that was pretty much it. Now, they got conditioned books right in front of them. And they'll say what what do you think we should run this horse? Every trainer loves them. Yeah. Extra twenty dollars a day. Outstanding Ellen Sherman is with us here. On trainer talk presented by phasing. Tipton really just getting started on the program here today, we're about halfway through. We're going to get to a short commercial break here momentarily, then we'll come back, and we'll talk more about Allen. We'll talk about his background as a writer. And that story you brought up about del mar. I want to go down that road to we'll do that. When we come back here. This is trainer talk. It's presented by phasing. Tipton stay with us on the horse racing radio network. Nominate now to the two thousand nineteen phase Tipton Gulfstream selected two year old and training sale. The Gulfstream sale was the number one ranked two year old sale in two thousand eighteen by aro are on pinned hooks in percentage of profitable pin. Hooks with an average of more than three hundred eighty five thousand dollars and immediate of two hundred ninety five thousand and more horses sold for one million dollars or more than any other two year old sale in America last year. It's the phasing Tipton Gulfstream sale March twenty seven two thousand nineteen nominate now at basic dipped in dot com. Now standing at upon farm, but on read while Catherine wildcat Rum's away to a friendship score and the hutcherson after winning the Greek three Hutchison wildcat rat goes on to win the two of you in new record time faster than pope and faster than thunder and faster than forty Niner. Multiple created stakes-winning great one performing millionaire while chat read also standing on feet after winning three in a row in Saratoga fee wins the greet one traverse at one of the most exciting finishes in history with a speed rating. But one twelve foot here comes me. With a final. Try pool will win. The Travers at will. Tokes stuck? Majorly fell in Saratoga talent fee for more information contact but farm at WWW dot on dot com. Loom racing skydiving takes laid skydiving gumming away started by former jockey and thirty five year racing industry veteran. Jeffrey bloom bloom racing offers racing partnerships bloodstock services pin hooking and private race management with another Asaki final the tough filling of the mate deservedly wins. The Santa Anita oaks experience the fun excitement and exclusive access of racehorse ownership with gloom rayson forming racing partnerships now get in on the action at bloom racing dot com. Good Samaritan the last great son of Harlan's Holiday, but debut winner at Saratoga followed by fourteen consecutive graded stakes performances agreed to winner on dirt and turf Meriden to the Breeders Cup. Good. Samaritan is taken the lane any funding away out of the family of sky, Mesa Bernstein and champion outstanding. The last grade son of Harlan's Holiday is only at Winstar farm. This is trainer talk presented by facing Tipton on the horse racing radio network. And they're coming to the top of this, right and California chrome makes his move for the leave. It is California Graham on the stem rat runs an. Hello, -fornia Chromos pulling away. California chrome into the final furlong. He's got a five link. Lied on his petition. It has California chrome in front and from Becca the peck on the old side commending taking second but California chrome shines bright in the Kentucky. Derby demanding curb was second then came in for the final time, two minutes, three point six six seconds. But what a way to welcome you back to train. Her talk presented by phasing Tipton here on H R N Leary coldness with the call of the Kentucky Derby back in two thousand fourteen California chrome wearing the roses that day. He would do it again two weeks later in the Preakness stakes taking home the black-eyed Susan's before coming up just a little bit short in the Belmont. When he went for triple this talk on our for. Prison it by. Ellen Sherman his dad's art rather Steve enrolled together as a team with this particular horse in Allen is in studio with us here today, a trainer talk and Kenneth sharing his thoughts of California chrome and talking about his new venture going out on his own training horses in his name. And he has started that process already. We're gonna talk more about that in the second half of the program. Mike pennant jute feld in our Jimmy Johns of Lexington studios. If you did miss any portion of the show, well, all you have to do is head back to our website horse racing radio dot net. You can check out the podcast of this program at all of our trainer. Talkshows horse racing radio dot net and follow us on social media for all the updates as well that's at H R N on Twitter. Ellen. I started the show by asking you. How many times you have watched that particular race in some California chrome biggest races? There were many more. Besides just that race in the Preakness. He had the Dubai World Cup. But to hear it again right now has to has to kind of send chills. Oh, yeah. As I got goosebumps. Always always puts a smile on your face. That's for sure the end, you said, it was maybe the the biggest thrill of your career. I'll be right. Kellyanne new chrome that moment Churchill Downs beneath the twin spires. The Preakness stakes was also pretty special to see him pull off that second leg in. Now know that you had an opportunity to go for a triple crown. Yeah. The Preakness stakes was great the people in in Baltimore at Pimlico. They is they know how to treat you. They had drivers for you parties. It was a lot of fun. We have we made the most of the the whole chrome experience. That's for sure you were pretty excited after that race too. And we were there to cover it on HR. And and here's the way it sounded right after chrome crossed the finish line in Baltimore. Alan, congratulations on the Preakness. Awesome. Awesome. Canada believing. Every time. Let them. That's jubilant our show. What was that? We get a little excited. Just a tad. Great radio though. Grab radio talk about emotion. Right. I mean, it just pours out of you. You talked about crying for about an hour back at the bar and after he won the derby. I mean that that's just a whole different feeling when he wins the Preakness, right? Yeah. You know, and just knowing you're you're that much closer to the triple crown was amazing. You know, just to have a shot at winning the triple crown. You know, what I mean, you see a lot of horses that win the derby. It lose the Preakness. I mean majority of them do. But to to have that chance to win the triple crown, which at that point hadn't been done in thirty something years, we have thirty six or. Yeah. Yeah. Then just to have the opportunity to be able to try and do that. And like I said the Preakness is another huge race in that you grow up wanting to win and to do it was just a lot of fun. I remember your hospital ity at the Belmont Stakes. You and your dad were so kind to us here on the network. It was a really big deal for us to be standing there sitting there at Belmont Park with a chance to broadcast a triple crown just like it was for you guys trying to win a triple crown that year, and you give us all the access back at the barn, which I'm eternally grateful for that was so special for us. But for you when he comes up a little bit short. And he's still ran a good race. He just wasn't. He wasn't quite California. Chrome right talk about those emotions after the bell. Ma. Steaks. Oh that was a rough one. I wouldn't I wasn't so much. This. I wasn't really disappointed with the horse or or because he he gave his all, you know, he came out of the race had been stepped on in caney grabbed his court the horse grabbed his quarter pretty good in that was bleeding. And he was he went into the race. Good. But not like I saw him go into the derby. He was getting a little tired. You know, he he had a tough campaign getting to the derby in, you know, the Preakness being two weeks later, and then all the traveling in. He ran what I think seven times is a two year old. And so he will he had a lot of racing going into the Belmont. And I just think if we could have had maybe another week not that I'm saying, they should change it. I would not want to change it at all. But I think if this particular horse had another week or so in between races. It probably would have been. In a little bit better showing. Yeah. It's always it's always hard. I mean, you you have to run in that confines in. Yeah. And it's it's a difficult thing to do. I mean, we've seen a couple hours to do it lately. But it doesn't suit every horse. There's no question about it. Now, some forces can't just can't do that, you know. But he I thought all in all he he was fantastic. I mean absolutely couldn't really ask for any more from them mean. It was great. I I know it had to be disappointing because everybody wants to win the triple crown you get greedy. You know, you win the urbi what you've been waiting for your whole life. Then you have a chance to win the triple crown you. Oh, man, we got this. You know? And then you if you don't win it, which has happened a lot too. It's like so deflating. And then you kind of know it's it's kinda getting towards the towards the end of the horse's career. You know, what I mean, you you've you've had this fantastic role. And you don't wanna see him go. But eventually, they they all go to study that are that good. So. And you know, that's another thing too. If he if I think if he would have won the triple crown, we would've never saw him race as a five year old, you know, as four year old year was basically shot, you know, he went to England and got hurt and got turned out and all that. But I don't think if I think if he would've won the triple crown, I mean, if I owned them, I probably would have to retired him and got that big check and sold them to one of the stud farms. I probably would have done the same thing. But yeah, I think I'm maybe it was a blessing that win in the triple crown. I don't know. Who knows you got to keep them around for while to keep them around got to travel the world when the Dubai World Cup. So and you guys run was not controversy Freeh or L effortless. You had to put up with a lot of weird stuff during that campaign. Yeah. Yeah. There was a some tension with the owners between the two owners. Then we tried to manage that the best we could, you know? And I think managing the horses is the easy part. Managing the owners in the help in anything. I think that's tougher than training the horses. Actually, your dad was so good at that. He was outstanding. He's just such a mellow. He reminds me a lot of my own father, just very mellow guys. You know, and he he handled that with a plummy never got flustered by it or he just kept concentrating on the horse and not worrying about all the junk going on over here on the left. You know? So I mean, he he really did a masterful job of of maintaining focus and and doing everything for the horse and not getting involved in the other stuff. Yeah. That you know. He. Great job at that. He he. He's really down to earth person doesn't get too excited about much. Although he has what my but a few times. I can't imagine you ever needed. Saint alan. But you know, he he's very good with people and with the media and everything and that would which has helped me because he took care of that. I took care of the horse. You mentioned the the four year old season and things neck going to plan after Dubai he goes to England, and it it never worked out for California. Chrome we didn't see him again till the following January. Right. When he came back in the sand pest while that year. Where were you in dad it on that side of things in terms of going to England in favor of it not in favor of it not in favor of going to England after he went to do by? And he ran second. Even a great race the horse who won ran the race of his life. Yeah. I didn't want to go to England the horse needed time off he needed a rask's. The he went to inland didn't really care for it back there. You know, they feed different. He was he lost weight. He I went back there and watch him train, and he just didn't really care for the undulating courses. You know, I'd watch him train, and he would like check themselves. Sometimes, you know, it's like, I don't think he really likes. I mean he'd liked the turf on a flat. He was fine. But the up and down and all that I don't I don't really think he cared for it. And maybe it was a blessing him bruising his foot two days before he ran or was supposed to run an Ascott. Yeah. Yeah. He probably wouldn't have run. Well, anyway. Yeah. I I don't think he would've and and he was going to have to run against the best her forces in the world. You know, that Ascott Meade is an amazing me. I think. Yeah. I think it was probably a blessing. We didn't get to run in England. Yeah. Well, sometimes that's the best thing. Don't run. Yeah. You know? So, but when he came back here, he just returned like, you never left. Well, when he marketable that he went to tailor made farm, and when he went there, you know after flying back from England and everything when he got off the plane and Chicago I've. Act felt bad for the horse. You know, he was skinny. I mean, his spirits were good. But he just didn't look that great. You know? And so he went to tailor made and they did a phenomenal job with that horse. When he came back in after he was turned out for three months. He looked like a completely different horse. He was big and swelled up. Ben. He just looked fantastic. I like, yeah. That's the curl line. You could tell the big difference huge difference. Ellen Sherman here on trainer talked presented by phasing. Tipton? We told you in the first half of the program that he is starting his own training career. But of course, California chrome such a big part of what his life has been about in this game along with his father art in his brother, Steve. And it's been a that was a magical ride and hoping for another California chrome is he told you in the first half of the program. He'll go to the two year old sales pick out some horses here in March. And we'll see if you can find the next chrome? I mean, we won't know for a few more years. You never know you never know where they're gonna come from. Right. Know, that's the beauty where he came from. Yeah. Obscurity. Yeah. He was not supposed to be good racehorse turned out to be for sure. Let's talk about you a little bit more and your background. Jude mentioned that you were a jockey started out as a jockey back to the tigger Ella thing for a minute. Wow. Even remember the horse breath. Okay. Tell me this because this is where YouTube kind of cross pass. Well, I was down at dull more only one time in my life as a trainer I ever tried to set a horse up to gamble. I had these two clients Carlos monk in Mr. Padilla, what the heck was his name. I keep Manny Manny Padilla, and they were they were caterers for the I don't even know if you know, this there they were caterers for the studios like if they were doing some. You know, movie your television or whatever onsite somewhere on location. These guys would would cater the food for everybody. That was working the cameraman the actors everybody and that was their business. So I had a lot of show business clients, and they talked to him about the horses because they liked the horses, and and they wanted to claim horse. So they call me, and they come out to the barn and meet knee, and we have a little discussion, and they don't have billions of dollars. They want to claim a horse for like ten or twelve. And I said, okay, I'll keep my eyes open. And then one day they called me and said we want to clean the sources, ticker Rillo. Well, I knew that the horse had a tendon issue and some other things all of them. And I said, listen, you know, the source has some issues, and and they said, we don't care. We've we've talked about it. We really want this horse said. All right. So I claim the horse forum. Came out of the race. Okay. And then a couple of days later is ten in was kinda warm, and I call them up, and I said, listen, the horse horses tenant, isn't right. You know, I think he needs to be turned out. So they said that's fine just tournament do whatever. So turn them out and gate game. The time guys ten in down good. And and brought them back in and started getting them ready for for del mar. So they were all excited about running at del mar that was their favorite track and the whole nine yards. So so I I run the horseback in a in a sprint race going. I think it was seven furlongs of in which is tough first time out. But I told my exercise girl rode the horse any bring her she was a apprentice at the time. And I said just just let him break out of the gate and let them go as fast as he wants as far as he wants. And then just wrap up on find that was for twelve five dropped them in for open ten and I said take him back make one run. And we'll see how fit he is. So she did that. So now we come to the big day in the horses ready to win. And I got him in ten thousand Cal bread easiest race that you could run into del mar at the time. So and I love him. I mean, he's doing so good. Yeah. Right. She gets sick the morning of the race. Our mom calls me. She goes Amy's throwing up, and she won't be able to ride that my God, you're kidding. I was all set to bet. So Steve was my assistant, and he was a friend of yours from Washington grew up together. Yeah. So. Steve comes to me. And he goes because I told them I said, I said Amy can't ride the day. So he must have called you or something. In the meantime to find out if your town or light enough to ride actually staying with? We gotta holding co. So he comes running up to me. I'm I'm watching hours work and. Might my friend Allan sherman's here from Washington. He's won some races. You know, up at long acres, and and you should put them on the horse today because he's got the bug and everything I said can you ride? He goes. Oh, yeah. He's great. Okay. So I put them on. Right. I had like fifteen. Jackie agents asked me about riding the horse. And I said, no, no, I've got a rider. Well, who's riding him said Ellen Sherman in the who? Yeah. The price doubled. So they didn't know who he was. And it was suited me fine. Because I was going to bet. So I was going to get get a good price. So Allen comes out, and my silks, the partnership didn't even have any silks. The hor he's wearing my silks. And you know, I said this horse is ready to ready to run. He's ready to win. So it's up to you. You know, and he just drew off by three one one pretty easy and I walked around with eight grand in my pocket. And you get out of that. Ten percent of the Persian. He probably was walking around though. Like you wanted to serve you that day. Yeah. That was the first choice. I really didn't southern California. And it wants no kid. Yeah. So he talks about watching the derby all the time. So that night, I went to one of the bars in in del mar. And I must have watched that race fifteen times they played the racist on a loop. So I had to wait for the whole car to finish before. I get to see you again. But I set right in front of the TV and just watched it and watched it and watch it with that eight grand throbbing in my. It was fantastic. It was a great day. It was it was so much fun in the fact that nobody knew who he was I loved even more. So yeah, that actually got me jump started in southern California riding, you know. And then after that I showed up at Charlie Whittingham's barn at four in the morning every day. And finally, he started put me on some workers and ended up riding some horses form and actually ended up winning about twenty races form. Wow. Yeah. I got to work Ferdinand judge Angelou. Chee goodbye halo Strodes creek in a lot of good horses for him. So he was no no stranger to good horses. When you got California chrome because he he'd done a lot of different things in his career. I mean Carrillo helped him that day, but that wasn't one of the better horses that he ever wrote. What was it like riding for him for Charlie? All it was amazing. You know, every time you you wrote a horse for you knew it was going to be ready to run. He wouldn't fail out in the paddock except keep them out of trouble, though, ES. Yeah. You know, if you cut them out of trouble in the horse wasn't good enough to win. So be it if the you got in trouble, and he should've won. Well, you heard about that too. I was looking up your statistics here echo bases. You were talking. We're you AB Sherman was that. Yeah. Okay. All right AB Sherman. So it's showing you with eighty career wins is that right spout right in the saddle. Yeah. That's pretty good. Yeah. Where's all the greatest stakes wins though, man the hamburgers got to him before? I wrote horses that went on to England. Real delegate. He wasn't the San Juan Capistrano that was a son of Dalia. Okay. Yeah. He was a really nice horse. I think that might have been disarmed first grade one win if I'm not mistaken Q might be right. I three told us that the other day really has you to think for doing all the work and getting the horse ready, right? Yeah. And get into that. What was your writing? Wait. You know, I was pretty good the first couple of years. I wrote I was young I started when I was seventeen and. Quit when I was twenty. But once I turned. Like nineteen years old it I swelled up. I don't know why. But you know, if I went out Nate something before it wouldn't make much of a difference. Maybe pool a pound or two Lanao when I went out and ate like, okay? Now, I gotta pull five pounds on it. Just it just got tough and doing all the stupid things at some jockeys due to lose weight. You know, good that for about a year and I'd had enough. I just couldn't keep the weight off. Yeah. It's just a healthy to do it. Now, either you know, that's another debate. That's brought up from time to time in the industry about jockeys in the writing weights now, and should they increase them a few pounds and let the guys be and the girls be just a little bit heavier and have that that natural way on the horses opposed to having to implement with with the lead or whatever it is in the saddle towel. Where do you where do you land on that? Should they should there be a little higher wait for the jockeys? Well, even if the jockeys do gain full more pounds or five more pounds. That's not their natural. Wade they're gonna be fighting once you gain that five pounds. I going to be fighting to stay at that weight as well. You know, I don't think it hurts the horses to carry a few extra pounds, you know, one twenty four or something we should probably be good wait for horses run twenty one twenty four or something like that. I don't think they need to run with the hundred and thirty and I don't think they need to run with the hundred twelve either. Yeah. Yeah. Somewhere right in the middle there. Yeah. Probably about the the sweet spot. Yeah. Sweet spot. When when did you decide that you wanted to be a jockey right on? When I was growing up. I would I told everybody I was going to win five Kentucky derbies. Four more to go. My dad was the jockey for Danny twenty four years swaps. Yep. Yep. Phil, I grew up always wanting to be a jockey was he excited when you told them you wanted to. Yeah. He wasn't real excited when I quit school to do it. I took my GED and quit school. And 'cause you know, having a size nine shoe. I knew I wasn't going to be able to do it for very long. So I I wanted to start and get it do it for as long as I could how long did you ride about three years when you stepped away from riding? Did you go right into training? Or was there a transition period where you did something else? No. I pretty much went right in right into the help in my dad, you know, been get my trainer's license for a while. But I was helping my dad along with some other guys. I'd go down like even when I I wasn't writing. I'd go down to LA every summer we'd go to Hollywood park and then get them ready for del mar. And while I was down there. I'd still work courses for Charlie and stuff, and I always whenever Charlie was around. And I always tried to go over there and get on horses for him. And he was you know, more than happy to put. Me on horses. And we've been we went we started going to del mar in mid eighties. My brother went down there. We were on that far barn by the chicken barn down now three or four stalls. The first bar, and we had, but you know, we grew up basically every summer if I wasn't at del mar I was on the fares, which del mar was a lot funner. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think you'd be doing? If you weren't involved with horse racing right now. I'd be guiding you out in the woods hunting. Actually, take the shot for me to what happened this year. I think to pull the trigger to for me. That might help. We're going to get you down on the farm. We've got to come down and do a little louder. Yeah. Yeah. I I told me can't go killing all the big deer though. He's got one or two for me. Where did Where'd you used to hunt? Tennessee, actually, growing up my my mother's from Tennessee and all her family's there. And we would spend every summer growing up in going to Tennessee. And that's kind of where I got the bug. My uncle was head of the fishing game down there. And no kidding taught. Me a lot about it. Yeah. I just loved it. Still do Allen Sherman here on trainer talk presented by phasing tipped and just a few minutes left, Allan always like to wrap it up by asking trainers to tell us something about them that maybe people aren't as familiar with. We talked about the hunting side of it. What else are you interested in hobby-wise hobby-wise? I love the Gulf enjoy hunting fishing and golfing. I beat Frank Taylor. Frank taylor. Any good not really? No, we're okay. You know, we'll shoot the mid eighties ninety something like that. That's good have fun. Yeah. That's pretty good. Yeah. We'll have to get you out golfing to. We'll do that. Yeah. He'll beat me for sure. Off with me before he knows that's like dropping down in class. When you play with me, you never know where the ball's gonna go. So we talked about this in the first half of the program going out on your own. Let's just wrap it up this way, you're going out on your own looking to pick out horses at the March sales. And when when people are listening to this now, maybe potential owners that are tuning in. What do you want them to know about Allan Sherman your philosophy, and where you wanna take this thing? Well, we we always growing up training these horses individuals. You know, they're not machines. They don't all can't stand the same training program. You've got to treat each horses individual. We've bought some really good horses. We've claimed some you know, we've claimed horses that went on to great win grade one. So you know, we've got a good eye for a horse. Take our time. Do the right thing by the horse. And you know, if you do the right thing by the horse. It'll help you out in the long run in might take a little longer to get to the races or whatever. But. An eventually it's better off for everybody involved, the horse the owners and everyone. Yeah. There's no question about it. Patients is everything in you having worked for Charlie Wittingham. You certainly learned that Fisher Fisher. Yeah. That's the number one answer that we get when I'll ask somebody about their philosophy and the most important thing to being a successful horse trainer. The one word that everybody always seems to throw out is patients. Yeah. And you know this day and age, you know, people they they wanted to get the quick results, and it's not cheap to train horse. Let's be honest. You know, it's it's expensive. By the time. You buy the horse train the horse. You've got a lot of money invested in that horse and you'd like to see some return. But if you push them to get that return, you're never gonna get it. And you're gonna end up with a hurt horse and nobody's gonna win from that. You know? Well, he's one of the the nicest guys that you're gonna find in the sport of thoroughbred racing. He's Allen Sherman. He's been our gas for the past hour. You're on trainer talk presented by phasing kitten. Give them a call send up some horses. Trust me, you won't be disappointed. Who knows maybe the owner of the next California chrome, and you can go down that road with Alan one more time Allen appreciate the visit my friend. Thank you could reach him at Sherman racing. gmaiLcom Sherman racing at g mail dot com. Remember? Yeah. Very easy to remember. They will get him a website to we'll get them all doctored up. Let's say let me get pictures at deer pictures of horses, California chrome. Appreciate it, brother. Thank you. All right. Good stuff. JT? We're back next week. Another brand new trainer talked the beat goes on. We hope so. Yeah. Lord, willing Lord Willard really producer Lee de LA Pena for jute fell for our special guest. Allan sherman. I'm Mike Pence. Thanks for listening to train. Her talk. Presented by phase Tipton.
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