1 Episode results for "Shanti Debbie"
MYSTICAL: Shanti Devi
"Maybe the biggest mystery of all time is what happens to us after we die. Is there in afterlife? Do we come back. Is someone else? After centuries of scientific discoveries and progress we still don't know but a certain phenomenon may hold the answer children who remember living a previous life and whose past life memories turn out to be right. This is supernatural apar- cast original and I'm your host Ashley Flowers every Wednesday. I'll be taking a deep dive into a real unexplained mystery to try and figure out the truth. This week's episode is about Shanti Debbie and Jane's Lining to children who grew up in different parts of the world decades apart but each had memories of a previous life. That were so accurate. Reincarnation is the only way to explain them. You can find all episodes of supernatural and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. And if you like what you're hearing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at Parkas network. The story of Shanti Devi Begins. In nineteen twenty six when she was born in Delhi India for the first several years of her life shanties little girl except for one thing. She doesn't talk at all. Her parents actually begin to think she's mute. When Shanti Turns Four to everyone's relief she starts to speak but some things off instead of just using one or two words at a time. The way you'd expect from a child shanty speaks in long perfectly. Formed sentences like a grownup which is extra strange because she keeps referring to her husband. It seems this four year old girl believes she's a married woman expecting a baby and living in an entirely different city when her parents and older sister thinks she's joking shanty gets angry. She tells them that this isn't her real life. This isn't her real name and they aren't her real family. She has a whole other light somewhere else that she's desperate to get back to. When she closes her eyes she still sees herself as a grown woman. It's like she went to sleep and woke up in a different child's body now because she's so young shanties parents take her that seriously they figure this is just a phase that will end sooner or later. But there's something that bothers them. Shanty claims her real home is in a city called Mudra. It's a city about nine hundred ninety miles away which nobody in shanties house had ever spoken about. Let alone been too. So they can't figure out how much or could have figured into shanties fantasies. It's a detail that seems almost too mundane to be made up and even weirder only local residents. Call it much truck. The cities real name is mature. The family has no idea where shanty would have heard. The nickname as time goes on shanty remembers all kinds of details for example her old house. She says it's painted yellow. That there's a well on the property. She also talks about a temple nearby that she went to every day to pray to Krishna. Apparently her husband is a businessman. Who's successful enough to own several homes? She talks about the birth mark on his cheek and the reading glasses that he wears and at first shanty had claimed that she was expecting a baby in this former life but now she remembers she actually gave birth to a son. She's also fully committed to her old habits like what she eats. She won't touch MEAT BECAUSE IN METRO. Nobody eats it and she never even served to her husband when her parents give her a. Sorry which is a draped garment worn by women in India. She says they overpaid that. It isn't real silk. She's used to wearing fine clothes because her husband's in the cloth trade and sometimes she uses slang words for things that only people in much reuse. She knows her real name. It's not Shanti Devi. It's look de Debbie. And she wants to go back home by now. Shanties Parents Aren't just bewildered. They're downright scared. They've been trying to wave off. What Sean saying is fantasy? But they can't ignore the fact that a lot of what she's saying checks out like the slang words. She's using the fact that in her other life. She prayed daily to Krishna who happens to be the patron God of Mucha. Then when she six she can describe how she died which she said was soon after giving birth and after some complicated surgeries her parents. Take her to see a doctor. He can't seem to find anything. Psychologically wrong with her. But he's amazed by how much she knows about certain surgeries the one that she supposedly had as Look D. This leaves shanties parents with only one explanation. Their daughter is remembering another life now. Shanties parents are Hindu and one of the core principles of Hinduism is reincarnation but it's not a regular occurrence to remember past lives. It's actually really rare. Also people believe that remembering a previous life is an omen. A sign that you'll suffer harm or unhappiness or even die young so to protect her shanties. Parents keep the whole thing very private but when seven year old shanty starts school she tells her classmates about her other life in pretty soon. She's being bullied by other students even her teachers and the headmaster assume she's lying but sean is indignant. She is so sincere. The teachers really start to wonder they decide to look into this a little more deeply. They go to Sean. T's house and with her parents permission they ask her more about her other life listening to her talk about her husband. Her pregnancy her illness. The teachers are overwhelmed. They can tell from her demeanor. She's not just telling a story it's as if she's actually lived through this so they asked her point blank for her husband's name and their address in. Mitra before they jump to any conclusions they want to write to this man to see if any of Shanti is saying is true. Now Up to this point. Shanty hasn't told anyone the name of her husband because it's frowned upon for Hindu wives of the time to speak their husband's name in public but finally she agrees to whisper it in her teachers ear. His name she says is Kedar. Not Kobe without telling shanty or her family. The teachers right to Kedar and tell him that an eight year old girl in Delhi believes. She's his former wife if he writes back saying he doesn't know what they're talking about. That Shanti Story is totally wrong and big and put this to bed once and for all but one me hear back from Kedar. He confirms everything in the Teachers Letters. Yes he was married before to a woman named Luke de but Kedar is still skeptical. And he said he's going to ask his cousin Kanji. Who Lives in Delhi to visit? Shanti I if. He thinks that she's the real deal. Then Kedar will come to see her for himself. So the teachers bring Kanji to Shanties House. They don't give shanties family any advance notice about who he is they just WanNa see what will happen when they arrive. Shanty runs out and throws her arms around Kanji now. She can't remember his name right away but she knows he's her husband's cousin. She talks to him like their long lost. Friends and Kanji is shocked here. Is this eight year old girl? He's never laid eyes on asking him if he's still unmarried if he's finally bought his own house she even knows that. Kanji used to have a crush on her. When Kanji leaves he writes to Kedar and says listen. This is real. This little girl is the living image of your dead wife and you have to come see her immediately. On November Twelfth Nineteen Thirty Five. Kedar arrives in Delhi. Along with his new wife and the son he had with look d a Ten year old boy named nominee. They get into shanties house and before he walks in caterer suddenly things of one more way that he can test this girl. He's going to say that he's his brother. Rom and if she believes bad then he'll know it's all a fraud. He walks into Shanties House and tells her parents his name is wrong but when Shanti sees him she knows he's her husband Kedar and then when she sees their little boy she throws her arms around him and weeps caterer. Still a little skeptical but the more they talk the more he realizes shanty knows things that no one other than love. D could have possibly known like the promise. He made to her on her deathbed that he never remarried. A promise obviously broke. She tells him exactly how they conceived their son and she remembers that while she was pregnant. She saw him cheat on her. Caterer is stunned. He goes back to much convinced. That this little girl has inherited the soul of his dead wife. Meanwhile news of this spreads through Delhi and the whole country even in India where the majority of the population is Hindu reported. Reincarnations are incredibly rare. The News Finally Reaches Mahatma Gandhi. The activist and leader. He's intrigued by the case. But so far. The evidence is all anecdotal. No one outside of Shanti or the caterers. Family has been able to pass judgment on this. So Gandhi convinces shanties parents. That it's in everyone's best interest to figure out whether this is all true or not. This means sending shanty too much out with a group of objective witnesses who can evaluate her behavior because so much of what she remembers has to do with places in much like her old house. The temple her previous family figure that this is the best way to put it to the test. Shanties parents agree. They want to know what's going on more than anyone else. So on November twenty fourth nineteen thirty five. The whole family leaves for much when we come back. We'll find out exactly what they saw now. Back to the story in November of nineteen thirty five eight year old shanty dovey traveled to Metro along with an official committee of inquiry made up of journalists and academics. They're told not to speak to Shanti or pepper her with leading questions. They're just supposed to observe. Nobody really knew what to expect. It was possible that none of what she said about her old family and home would be true but the crazy coincidences began as soon as they got off the train as they step onto the platform. An older man approaches them. He doesn't speak but shanty stops in her tracks and falls to his feet. She cries out that he's look these brother in law and of course she's right then. She takes the committee into town and leads the way to her old house. She doesn't need direction. She remembers the way shanty had said that the house was yellow. But when they get there. It's painted white however the people who live there now say that they painted it because it used to be yellow later when they visit her second house. She's momentarily confused. There used to be a well on the property but then Kate are picks up a stone and shows her the spot where it used to be. She was right. She recognizes her old clothes. Her Old Jewelry. She goes straight to a room and remember hiding money in a certain spot before she died and cater confirms that he found money in that exact spot finally. She goes to the temple where she said she used to pray by now. Word has spread through much of what's going on and literally crowds are starting to form outside the temple wanting to catch a glimpse of Shanti when they're done inside the temple. The committee addresses the crowd. They confirm this little girl used to be look de. Dovey they site all the evidence. They've seen that day. They're confident that. This is a true case of reincarnation. Ben Shanty makes a speech. She says that she was very happy. To live in Mitra but now she wants to go home to Delhi and live the rest of her new life after this shanties case becomes famous word spreads over the world and everyone is desperate either to prove or disprove. Her Claims Shanti is put under hypnosis and taken back to Missouri and quizzed. All over again. There are a couple of her memories. That don't totally line up with the facts. But all in all most of what she says holds up but some skeptics maintain. There's no way to know exactly what shanty said in how much she said before meeting. Kedar in his family to be honest. That's the biggest weakness in this case. The lack of any investigation before shanty was reunited with caterers family. There's no way to know if Kedar or his family me might like influence shanty or planted details in her head intentionally or not but the evidence is still so overwhelming. No one's ever been able to fully debunked to this day. A Swedish journalist even traveled to India in the Nineteen Fifties. Hoping to prove that shanties case was a hoax. But after interviewing her he actually became convinced that her case was real and he even wrote her official biography. Even today Shanty Debbie is considered possibly the most compelling of reincarnation in recent history. But it's not. The only case. Children with memories of past lives have been found all over the world even in America now. American cases aren't as common as some other countries. Which may be because reincarnation isn't a big part of American culture so people are less likely to report it or even to take it seriously. Most cases have been found in places where reincarnation is widely accepted like India Burma Thailand and Lebanon. But there's one American case that is just as baffling and convincing as Shanti Davies in the Spring of two thousand a couple Louisiana named Bruce and Andrea lining or begin to notice a troubling pattern with their son James just a few weeks after he turned to. He started having terrible nightmares multiple times a week. Now nightmares are pretty common kids especially at this age. So even though it's scary to watch Andrea figures. This is just a developmental thing but she notices. He's saying something during the nightmares screaming actually airplane crash on fire. Little man can't get out. It goes on for so long Andrea takes him to the doctor. But the doctor can't find anything wrong with James. The nightmares continue and Soon James. Start saying airplane crash on fire during the day like when he's playing with his toy planes except he's not really playing he's actually like reenacting plane crash over and over again. Eventually Jane starts talking in more detail about the crash. This usually happens right before bed when he's maybe a little drowsy. One Night Andrew Bruce. Ask Him who the little man is and he says. James they figure he's just repeating his own name. They ask him what kind of plane. James's in he says a Corsair a Corsair that takes off from a boat. Now James has been to a flight museum a couple of times with his dad but he's never seen a corsair. His parents are positive. He's never even heard of one then a few days later they asked him about the boat that this plane supposedly took off from James. Says it's called Anna Toma. They do an Internet search and they learned that the no Toma was an aircraft carrier in the Pacific during World War. Two then a few nights later James tells them that his plane was shot down when they ask who did it. He rolls his eyes and says to his parents like they're idiots. The Japanese Andrea realizes. Her son isn't having nightmares. He's having war flashbacks. There's no way James could have picked all this up from a book or a movie because even at two years old he knows things about the planes that you'd have to be an expert to know like he knows that the toy plane his mom buys him doesn't have a bomb attached. It's a drop tank. He knows certain quirks about the course airplanes. Like for example. He says they always get flat tires. Then one day. Bruce is looking at a photo book of the Battle of Iwo Jima. James crawls into his lap sees an aerial shot of the island and says here daddy here is where my plane was shot down. James also starts to drop vivid pictures of airplane crashes and he signs them James Three. He tells his parents is because he's the third James. Now Bruce is Christian and reincarnation goes against pretty much everything he believes. He's still thinking it all might be a coincidence but Andrea feels differently. She's pretty sure. James is having some kind of past life memory. They decide to as James if there's anyone else with him in his dream and he says. There's someone named Jack Larson so Bruce Decides to go looking for this Jack Larson. He makes contact with a couple of veterans who flew from the Toma. The first thing he finds out is that no course airs ever flew off the Natoli which to Bruce is good news. It means James supposed. Memory of the crash can't be accurate. But there is a Jack Larson who flew planes from the NATOMA. And who still alive Bruce. Tracks him down at his home in Arkansas and asked him if he remembers any pilots getting shot down during the battle of Iwo Jima Larson's as he can think of only one a twenty one year old named James Hudson Junior. He was the only pilot to go out that day. And not make back. Bruce later found out from eye-witnesses that James Houston's plane was hit in the exact same way that their son James had described it right in the engine and that signature James Three if James Lining are was James Houston Junior reincarnated that would indeed make him the third James. The liners wrote a book about this whole experience. That came out in two thousand nine now to some people. That's a red flag. Parents are often accused of beating false memories to their children in order to make money off of them. But when you think about it why picked such an obscure person? It took the liner's two years to figure out the identity of James Houston Junior. You'd think they'd pick someone easier to find. And is one single book deal that takes like eight or so years to materialize. Really enough motivation to go through all of this effort by the time the book was published. James was eleven and he remembered little of his past life. Memories Mrs Comet. These memories tend to come on early around the time children start talking and they start to fade by the ages of like six or seven shanty. Debbie was an exception. Her memories actually stayed with her entire life. This may have been because the other lie she remembered was so close to her own both in terms of when it took place and wear in the majority of cases though these memories are fleeting still. They may be the most convincing. Proof of reincarnation. We have psychiatrist. Ian Stevenson. Spent Forty Years Investigating Children's past life memories with each case. He tried to determine how many statements child made that could be independently verified as true after studying twenty five hundred cases. He was convinced that at least some of the time a personality or a soul does survive after death and it can then inhabit another human being. There was simply no other rational way to explain what he was seeing Stevenson studied. Sean Davies story at least twice once in the early sixties and then again in the mid eighties. Shortly before Shanti died he never came out and said that it was Absolu- proof of reincarnation but he never said that about any case he only said that he could determine through strict scientific methods that she made twenty four statements about her past life. That verified facts. Stevenson passed away in two thousand seven but his successor. Jim Tucker entered over two thousand of Stevenson's cases into a database and drew some general conclusions about this phenomena. Children tend to remember lives of people who are the same gender as them and who were from the same country as them and most of the time in their past life they died young or in a violent way or sometimes both like the case of James Houston Junior. This may account for why more past life cases involve boys than girls. Men tend to die of violent or unnatural causes more often than women strangely when Tucker looked at the death statistics for the US. He found that men made up the same number of unnatural deaths in real life. Seventy two percent as they do in the cases he was studying all these similarities. Seem to Erie to. Just be a coincidence. If these memories are all fantasies why do they mirror real life so closely and there's another strange aspect to this phenomenon. That's even harder to explain away. Some of these children aren't just remembering a previous life. Be actually can remember being dead when we come back. We'll look at children's memories of the afterlife now back to the story James Lining or didn't just remember being a pilot in World War Two. He remembered being in heaven around h five and a half. James told his mom that he'd been in heaven at this point. Andrea wasn't exactly surprised. She asked him so basic questions. What did have look like what had God'll quake was got a man or a woman? James told her that heaven was beautiful and that God wasn't a man or a woman. It was whatever you needed him to be at the time he also remembered being greeted in heaven by two of his friends. Leon and Walter. He'd even named his Gi Joe Dolls after them and sure enough. There were records of two men on board the NATOMA killed before James Houston junior and their names Liam Connor and Walter Devlin. Jane's also told his mother that it wasn't a coincidence she. Bruce had become his parents. James picked them before he was born into his new life. He saw them eating at a pink hotel in Hawaii. And that's when he decided he wanted them to be. His new parents Andrea remembered that she and Bruce had gone to Hawaii and stayed at the Royal Hawaiian Hotel which is completely painted pink and this was a couple months before James had even been conceived as far as Andrea was aware. There was no way James could have known about this. This kind of story is an unusual for children with past life memories. They often remember heaven or a place like it or choosing their parents or being in this kind of waiting area before they can come back to life and remember these children are typically like three or four years old when they're talking about this stuff normally children don't even understand the concept of death until they're like in Elementary School Gym Tucker Calls These Memories Intermission reports. Because if we're talking about reincarnation then there's a certain interval between the death of a previous person and the birth of the new child. These reports tend to be very similar to near death. Experiences reported by adults they can involve a transition into a bright light or seeing loved ones waiting for them on the other side but maybe the most detailed example of an intermission is from Shanti Devi. She didn't just remember her previous life. As logdi she remembered her death as look d her birth Ashanti and everything in between as soon as she knew she was going to die. She started to pray to Krishna and she didn't stop. Even when she finally lost consciousness she kept pray and her prayer was to come back as she was praying. She felt a sensation of cold. Start to creep over her body from the bottom up as it swept over her. Her heart stopped. Her breathing stopped even after she was pronounced dead by doctors. She was still partly aware of what was going on. She could see people come into the hospital room break down in tears and on and on then finally her soul escaped through the top of her head and she moved into another space filled with a silver light. She said other people were there and they were both inside and outside of her at the same time. She understood that they were all waiting to be given orders. Would they continue on or would they go back? Shanty felt belonging to go back and see her husband and child and then before she knew it she was in darkness. She was wedged in this tight uncomfortable. Place with a terrible smell she was in the womb but the whole time she was in there. She's thinking of her old life. Her House her husband the child she's just given birth to. She knew that these memories were what pulled her back to. Earth and they stayed with her as she was being reborn. Now there's no way to know really if this is true once again. Shanties astonishing memory makes her an exception. Not The rule if we can say that rolls even apply here but if her memories are to be taken at face value then they support one possible. Scientific explanation of reincarnation. That explanation involves a lot of quantum physics without going too far into it. Certain experiments have shown that quantum particles exist in called superposition with means they don't exist in any one physical place or time. They exist in every possible place or time that they could go to when you observe and measure them as particles. You're only seeing them. In one of those many possibilities human consciousness could be like these quantum particles the only way we can observe it in our physical world is when it's tied to a brain and a body but the consciousness or soul. If you will can still go on existing after that body dies and possibly reattach itself to another body later on to people who research past life memories this theory would mean that our reality is something like a shared dream something that a whole bunch of people are creating and experiencing all at once and just like when we were woken up at night by sound or nightmare. Some people might have their dream cut short by death in real life. It's usually near impossible to go back into the same dream once you've woken up but if people died too soon too young or too violently the thinking is they may be able to find their way back to the same dream it may not be so far away except now that dream will be experienced in a different body as far as memories of the afterlife. Go that's another drink. A transition DRI reports of near death experiences all seem to contain certain common elements of bright light. No pain the sensation of hovering above their dead bodies. Shanty story contains all of these and so it seems that culture shapes people's near death experiences in the same way that the events of our daily lives shape our nighttime dreams for that reason. The exact details of this intermission between lives can be highly personal. And the fact that not everyone can remember. It isn't proof that it's not real. Dr Stevenson used to say that remembering may be a defect in other words. This may be happening to everyone but only a few people may be able to recall it. In the case of Shanti. Debbie took an active part in the whole process by praying. She in a sense co created her next life by asking Krishna to send her back to the same life. She was living before and because look. Debbie was so young she was more able than most to return to her former world as Jim Tucker puts it in his book. Return to life quote dying young increases the likelihood that a child will later report memories of a past life. This might also explain why children remember themselves as a person of the same gender and culture and it could also explain why the average time between the death of an adult and the birth of a child who remembers them is so short usually only about sixteen months but again. We still don't have solid proof to support these theories. Some of these reincarnation cases could be fraud or coincidence or maybe even psychic ability. The story of Shanti Debbie. Though seems impossible to dismiss as fraud or coincidence and so sodas James Lining or and his memories of being a pilot not to mention the thousands of other cases. Tucker in Stevenson found. How do we explain those? Are they just coincidences or is something bigger going on here? Maybe the answer is that reincarnation exists if we believe in it maybe like Shanti will choose what happens to US after we die. And maybe if we're handed some tough cards at birth we can take some comfort in knowing that will have another round because death may just be beginning. Thanks for listening. I'll be back week with another episode. You can find all episodes of supernatural and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Spotify has all your favorite music and podcasts. All in one place. And they're making it easier to listen to whatever you want to hear for free on your phone computer or Smart Speaker. And if you liked the show. Follow at podcast on facebook and instagram and APP podcast network on twitter supernatural was created Max Cutler and stars Ashley Flowers and as a podcast studios original it's executive produced by Max Cutler. Sound Design Carry Murphy with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Carly Matt. This episode of supernatural was written by Joanna Philbin with writing assistance by drew coal to hear more stories hosted by me. 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