20 Episode results for "Serbia"
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AT#643 - Travel to Serbia
"The. The bags back on a roll. Anna read, it's go real good pass board. Temperature traveler episode six hundred and forty three today, the metre travel talks about monasteries and memorials markets and fortresses and a little bit of Yugoslavia nostalgia. As we go to Serbia. Baby. Welcome to the amateur traveler, I'm your host, Chris Christopherson. Let's talk about Serbia. I'd like to welcome back to the show. Stephanie Craig from history fan girl dot com and Allison green from eternal arrival dot com and both of these ladies are from Sofia adventures dot com. Stephanie Allison of welcome back to the show. When I say, welcome back to the show. Stephanie has been on talking about Sofia Bulgaria and Allison has been on the show talking about Belise. But this time we're not talking about either of those places. Where are we talking about? Allison let you answer that one. I'm talking about Serbia today. Excellent. We have done another show on Serbia, but it has been quite a long time as I recall and first of all which relationship to the Balkans. When I started traveling fulltime, I was in Greece, and I was on sky scanner and Greece's a bulk country, but not too many people go there thinking they're gonna start a Balkan adventure in Greece. And I looked at skyscraper for what the cheapest next country. Wasn't. It was Bulgaria didn't realize that. It was Gary because Bulgaria was the country north of me 'cause I had didn't know that much about Bulgaria. But I went there from month and loved it. And then realize that the Balkans is in area of the world that it's so full of potential for travel because they want tourists bad. It's not like Venice or Barcelona where everything's full all the time. They're so eager for you to be there. And so I moved to Bulgaria slowly over the last two two and a half years I've gone to every country in the Balkans and got into see the differences. And I think that Serbia just a country that people outside of. Real traveled through Zia's don't know anything about. And it's amazing. Excellent. I think that answers the why should we go to Serbia? So what kind of tannery would we recommend? It depends on much time. You have if you only have a couple of days in Serbia, I would say to Belgrade because Belgrade is really close to some really interesting day trips as well. So if you just use Belgrade as base than I think on that Belgrade has enough to do that you could easily fill three to five days just in the city that interesting that big, but you could also spend one or two days, traveling to Novi sod or super Titze, which Novi Saad is European culture. Twenty twenty one I believe, and it was actually on the lonely planet best in travel for the police to travel to for two thousand nineteen. So it's starting to come up on the radar interest. Really full are going architectures. It's beautiful art nouveau see with colorful buildings beautiful cathedrals in very different from the rest of Serbia because it was actually part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. So. Has a lot of architecture and tradition from that part of a world. And then also the town of soup says probably the most beautiful town in Europe. At no one's ever heard of it's ten kilometers from the border hungry, and it completely beautiful city has one of the most gorgeous synagogues they've ever seen and youthful palace and really small really quiet. Those are both easy day trips from Belgrade as well. So if you had only short amount of time, I would say stick to Belgrade in the day trips. But if you have some more time, we have some other ideas pie gets one or even two weeks in Serbia. Excellent. Let started Bill Belgrade them. What should we do see eating Bill grid? So when door in Belgrade, I always suggest wherever I am start with a free walking tour because you're gonna usually see the core main sites in whatever the. Historic district is. If you see list of twenty things to do in the city, the walking tour is gonna probably check off ten or fifteen of them in. So then you go deeper after that Eddie good walking tour is gonna show you hotel Moskva, which is so beautiful on the outside. It was actually the Nazi headquarters when the Nazis occupied Belgrade. So it's got some more interesting history than just being a beautiful hotel. One thing. I didn't do it. My first trip to Belgrade that Alsina did when we were there last month that is so delicious, they the hotel Moskva has a kick that they made called the musk Vish knit, and it's like cherry almond cake, and you can find kick all over Serbia because it's famous now as like a Serbian desert, but it ridge netted at this hotel in they supposedly make the best one, and they have it on a list with wine pairings. So for about the equivalent of ten dollars. You can go in get custom wine paired to this perfect. Desert in almost knees looking album area downstairs, and it's so delightful, especially if like you go into walking tour, and you are tired is there anything better to being handed cake with wine. That is perfect for that cake. Kickin wine, don't this is really always go together for me or we talked about a chocolate peak in a red wine hill almond even L E cake with fruit at the white parents are perfectly paired to go with this cake, so their white wines. But they are they know exactly what they're doing. They are really take a hundred years. But the waiter told us next time they come back to talk to him and get that there's a nicer wine that person's lightly better. That's not on there. But that he and so if you're a real wind person ask your waiter, if there's more options than just what's on the wine parried, but I've never been as happy taking this beautiful hotel. All right. So I would definitely start with. The hotel Moskva tragic square. There's a really cool looking market. That's very close by called the zella Vanak, which is they have all these creed markets open air farmers markets. But this one is got a really interesting red in white tiled building. However, jewelry looked it's been reconstructed to look like that you mentioned the square, but you didn't say anything about the square. I don't know if I would only I wouldn't go to Belgrade Justice see this where but you'll feel. I would say would be just walking around has such an amazing bide. If you've been to other cities in the Balkans. You'll notice that Serbia definitely has the best infrastructure or Belgrade has the best infrastructure in by that needs. The streets are really pleasant to walk the sidewalks are related move not crafts. I know other people that doesn't sound. It's normal. But after living in Sophian, you're always looking at the ground one step forward can't walk in text at the same time. Belgrade didn't really nice condition. It's really easy to walk around berry pleasant very liveable in everyone's sitting on on terrace drinking coffee, it's very social city. Everyone seems to constantly begin coffee with people or sitting outside having a meal incredibly beautiful. It's really really has such so much more of a central European vibe to me than typical eastern European by which I think is really interesting. My favorite area is dorsal and bats the neighborhood. So if you're at liberty square facing, the horse statue that were most walking towards instead of your facing that and in front of you would be comic on parked and agreed. Fortress, which are things. Absolutely. Should see parkas really lovely and the Hort just so cool integrate great place to watch the sunset, but if you were to walk to your right down the hill and through those streets. There's some really lovely restaurants where you can have like modern food or national food and so many great coffee shops in the door chill neighborhood. And yet another neighborhood that I would recommend walking around in is good orlea. So if you walk down good our street is a little bit touristy. But I think there's some really great restaurants there. It has a really nice cobblestone street with all these colorful cafes in bars and Cafa which Agra traditional of Serbia fun, like a coffee house that serves food, but also coffee. It just has like very traditional food on the menu and mostly sells Serbian coffee, which is sort of the Turkish style and also will sell other kinds of coffee as well. Turkish coffee or Serbian coffee. We're talking about something in a small glass fairly thick. It was. It was describe it a little, greedy. Maybe great length drinking mud. It's not my personal favorite. And also, don't call it. Turkish coffee appearance Servia Serbian coffee. But I mean, the Ottomans brought it, but you know, so I think of it as Turkish copy, but it's very traditional in. It's it's pretty wine. They enjoyed their sippy go to Kafarneh and have a Cup of Serbian coffee of very classic thing to do there. Let's take a break here in here from sponsor with all the recent news of online security breaches hurt not to worry about where your data goes making it online purchase or simply accessing your Email could put your private information at risk. 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I have absolutely no idea what traditional Serbian food is or what I should order. I love the Balkans. Having lived in the Balkans her. So they don't always love Balkan food. And so last time when Allison and I were there I spent probably the first week of our trip, avoiding Serbian food altogether. They have a may amazing international food and Bill. Grade, and I was just like eating tacos. Nachos. And I was so happy to have all of this, amazing international food. It's probably one of the best international food cities of the Balkans like within I dug deep because we were writing an article about Servian food we needed to eat some, and I realized that have been really dumb Serbian food is when with onions and fried peppers that are it almost takes a jalapeno proper. But if jalapeno Popper was size of a meal and made gourmet style I had because the northern part of Serbia Vojvodina was part of the Austro-Hungarian empire in that part of the country. You can find food you would normally consider to be hung area. But they're also Serbian foods. So I had some amazing goulashes in pork. Tenderloin ahead languish in Batista. It's traditional Balkan food. But I do think that Serbia does it really. Well, if you were listening to this episode because you're. Backpacking balkans. And you just don't want anymore. Jovi order some of the other items on the menu because Serbian food is I think it's bulk food really really, well, you say if you're tired of ordering and then you used the word, I do not know, basically the Balkans. What they usually have a variety of grilled me. But basically estate just shaped in different shapes ship is a call it like, a skinless awesome. So it's it's rolled like a sausage. But it doesn't have any casing. So it's about each would be roughly the size of your finger, and it's grilled, and it's mix of usually it's very are in the Balkans. Because there are some Muslim countries in the Balkans. And then they wouldn't use pork by incipient. It would be beef N fork maybe a little bit of veal as well. Usually get order five or ten grilled sometimes they put Chi Mak on it. In is a clotted cream sorta it's a fresh. Cheese. So then you can dip the Timothy in the kayak, and it's pretty much a heart attack on a plate. But this looks Turkish to me this looks like Sultanahmet Kafka. Yeah. So much from Serbia. Elsewhere in the Balkans is really similar to Turkish food which is similar to Bulgarian which is learning breakers similar. They don't wanna hear that. But it's it's traveling around the region. Like, we do you do get a little bit of food fatigue because when you cross borders, you're not really getting hold new cuisine. You're getting slight variation on the other countries quizzing. So that's that's one of the reasons why we recommend international food when we're capitals because if you're traveling through this region in a real it for a longer time because magin being in twelve countries that all have very similar menus. So we do recommend capitals are really good for international food. And when you're the smaller cities. You should eat more local unless you only have all amount of time in which case go crazy 'cause notes you'll again. And then I went to get back to things to do in Bill grade. What else do we want to do before we move on from Bill? Great. So one of my favorite things is the house of flowers. So it's hard to be in the Balkans without hearing about Yugoslav history. But if you're attends on wherever you are you're going to get a different version of it Serbia is very proud of Yugoslav history up through the end of Tito's rule, and he was the tater or leader of this lobby that really held it all together and Yugo-nostalgia is a term that people who wish you Slavia still existed because think about all of these countries having so much more economic power when they were all together and Serbia part of white looks like alpha saying, it looked so pretty and the roads are so good is because it really was the center of an empire. A while. And now it is not that. But Joseph Tito was the leader at house AFL ours is where his Muslim is. And there's also a museum of Yugoslavia that's on the property that mostly holds all of the items that he own including so there's all of this amazing tragic and positive propaganda maps. Really interesting determined that. There was a tradition every air where people from all over Yugoslavia would make these batons. Like, I really race batons that are shaped into all kinds of amazing figures represented the parts of Yugoslavia, and they would give them to him every year. So there's thousands of these on display there. I didn't understand you go to style Jada from the perspective of Serbia until I really dug in deep there. Another thing. I would say is there some amazing architecture from the Yugoslav era in Belgrade, the western and eastern city gates are actually two buildings that were built in the nineteen seventies in very social realist brutalises style that I think are interested in whether you choose to go to them physically went to them. But you'll also just see them as you're driving through the city. So Belgrade is sits where the Sava river the Danube river connect, so because are so many different waterfronts. There's a ton of really important bridges and. One of them, though, which I think is the least visually interesting is the green Bridget's old Sava bridge. But it's actually a bridge that was built by the Nazis during operation and then saved by locals that when the Nazis tried to destroy it. So that nobody could cross the river. And so I would walk to the green bridge take photos of the rest of landscape because that's a great place to take photos from. But then also just know you're walking across the very specific weird piece of history and cross into Novi bail. Grad new Belgrade, which is across the river and go to the new Belgrade's Minic, which is a giant memorial to the concentration camp that was there. So Belgrade had a very hard time during World War Two at about twenty three thousand people were killed at the concentration camp that stood in new Belgrade. So I definitely think that that's something that anybody who wants to pay their respects to World War Two history will def will definitely wanna make their way over there. One of the. Interesting things about Tito just little history. Here is that of all of the communist. Countries afterward to most of them became coming because the Soviet Red Army was there and had liberated them and Yugoslavia liberated itself. And so while Tito was repressive. Certainly, especially at first he also then later breaks with Russia and becomes non-aligned so different path. And as you say he was the only one who apparently was able to keep the country together. Because as soon as he dies at it balkanize, as it were I like to tell people get I had to be in any communist country living in nineteen sixty or nineteen seventy I would have wanted to be in Yugoslavia around the end of the eighties when you wanna move to east Germany, or Hungary or somewhere about to be liberated where so Bulgaria, and because Bulgaria is right next to you this love or the formative Slavia it was much poor during communism than Serbia was when it was probably be Slavia. And now, they're really on par. And the GDP Bulgaria is a lot stronger. You can really see why Serbians would have you gonna style jet. And why Croatians Bosnians would not will also part of the struggle between Serbia and Croatia, and the others was that Serbia wanted to hang onto you Slavia and to retain Yugoslavia as an identity, and of course, that causes bent feelings strangely enough. Yeah. It is really interesting. Whenever I am Agung Serbian or young Bosnian Serb because Bosnian Serbs can have Serbian passport. So they can live in Serbia whenever I need them there. They have so much more. You're gonna sell than I ever would have guessed. We're talking about people who are like twenty years old. So they're not people that knew it, right? They just wish they were part of something larger, and that's just not how other people in the region feel and so it's very complicated as you travel through I like people like don't put your political opinions on people in the. Balkans. Listen to their opinions and learn from them because this is one of the most complicated regions in world history. Right. Yup. Well, it's. And all those other things we wanna see other sites in Belgrade before we move out because I think we're getting close to the time we're gonna need to talk about other places. So there's a area of Belgrade that's municipality of Belgrade, but it was an independent city for most of its history called Seomoon, and it is before Belgrade was liberated from the Ottomans and before it was liberated from Austria, Gary the rest of of Belgrade was part of the Ottoman empire. But Zaman was part of the Austro-Hungarian empire. So you cross just a little bit north. And all of a sudden, a look like, you're in Austria calls the churches are rope. And they really have their own identity. And also the houses there are so they're so charming. It's such a perfect little neighborhood. I hadn't visited it on my first trip there there's a tower they're called guard tower to the austro-hungarian-built guard tower when the hip controlled the area for a thousand years and it up at the. Top of that tower is one of the best views of the city, if you love photography, you really can't miss it. Are there other things we're going to do there? There's a really adorable little yellow church across the way that's in a cemetery. I think that cemetery is some of the best ways the when I travel I love is need cemeteries because you get to walk around. But I think something that a lot of westerners might not realize that orthodox materials have the faces of the people who are buried in them. The walking around the cemetery is a very personal experience because you can see oh this was a little boy grave by the years. But when you're forced to look at the gravy and of a little child on a grave at who's been buried for a hundred years that is like a visceral body experience in. So if you there I would walk around the cemetery. There's some other really beautiful cemeteries in Belgrade like the new cemetery. The liberators cemetery were all of the Red Army people who did come to help them are buried at Jewish cemetery. That has a holocaust memorial. But if you're only gonna do one, and you're already going to go to them, and I would go to the one. That's across from the garnish tower will one thing I want to talk about you did to this other region of Serbia, and I not sure that everybody is aware of how large Serbia is. So you jump there quickly as if you didn't go that far because you didn't go that far. Service. What like a hundred miles from end to end topped about him. I drove from the south to Belgrade in six hours it, so it's not very big. That's why if you wanted to do it in a week, you could do a lot of it. You would just feel brushed maybe. And if you did it in two weeks, you would really feel like you saw you wouldn't see everything, but you can feel like you saw all of the things you really wanted to see. Will a US one hundred twenty seven times bigger Servia. Yeah. I've when I think about how big is basically we drive twice that distance to go. See my son in L A. So not really big. Okay. One more thing. I want to mention that you should see and Belgrade before I forget is there in sort of about maybe a ten minute walk from the central train station. There are the ruins of the Yugoslav army headquarters, and this is where the NATO bombings in nineteen ninety nine took place. So this building was bombed several times, and it was mostly bummed for symbolic purposes rather than anything else because they headquarters had actually already moved other operations somewhere else in somewhere secret. But they've left it pretty much as is they've done a little bit of controlled demolition just to make sure that it's not falling apart. But it's still very present in the city's landscape, and it didn't intersection of two very busy streets. So there's cars trams everyone's going past it crazy to think that it's been like this for almost twenty years standing here sort of a visual scar entering interesting, and it's worth seeing. Because a lot of people forget how recent it was. And it's another thing that's complicates the history of Serbia, especially the recent history next. So I'm insane. Oh matter what whether you one week or two started to talk a little bit before about the region of the D. Anna, which is the region that encompasses no be thawed in Suba. But also in boy, the DNA you have the the region of Gora, which is famous for its wine. And specifically there is a really cute little village about ten miles away from Novi Saad called stumps key Carlos see, and this is where you can try a really unique kind of wine called Burma sort of like a wine needs a digestive or like vermouth or something. So it has lake. In spices and subsets like a dessert wine and these relief Amos type of wine, and it was actually served on the panic because it was so loved by famous Austro-Hungarian people because this would have been during that time. And but some Carlos itself is a release small, but really interesting town to see 'em. It's really close to Novi Saad and petro Verden fortress that is just outside of Novi Saad as well. So we would recommend if you had one week in Serbia start in Belgrade for about three days and then rent a car. There's really no point having a car in Belgrade, you'll just be stuck in traffic the whole time and then rent a car, and then you can drive up to Novi side strips Carlos drive around through Gora, their twelve monasteries also in Frisco, Bora, and one of the most beautiful is crucial monastery midst. Probably one of the. Most important monasteries in the north of Serbia, and you can do see all those monasteries wineries in seaboat cities in about two days. It'll be a little rushed, but you could make it work. And then afterward we recommend people. Check out fourth largest city in Serbia. It's called crabby vats and home to a really interesting memorial park in museum hockey is a place where one of the words World War Two massacres occurred or three thousand Serbians lost their lives in one day. And there is a memorial park that catered to their memory with twelve Yugoslav era communist monuments to the loss, and they're very abstract, but they're also very touching. And it's really interesting because you can try through the park end it. I dunno took us about three hours or so to drive through the park checkout each monument off around. Think about it. And it was end you can see in the town of Crimea is also interesting in two nice halfway point between Belgrade in the northern area and southern Serbia. And so finally, we would suggest heading down to Novi Pazar, which is close to the border with Costa. And from no people's are the town of no are is interesting, but it's not my personal favorite and Serbia. But I think there are some really interesting places around it said just students on a serious probably one of the most beautiful monasteries I've been to like all of Europe. Honestly, it's setting of it is really beautiful. It's UNESCO world heritage site part date back to the twelfth century. But it's been built around things have been added on or rebuilt throughout the ages. It's just really beautiful. It's about maybe an hour outside of no east, czar and staff you anticipate, Johnny right? Some. Countries. Have UNESCO site will be a collection of monasteries Serbia got there is done independently. So I think in some places these might be one, but they're both independent UNESCO site. So if you're a UNESCO world heritage site chaser. Yeah. You want to go to both? So you won't want to skip one. So Patani is also really beautiful Serbia. Does this amazing thing where likes to put its monasteries on the side of mountains? So they're very picturesque. And then one thing I would say is if you're a navy Petar there is a mosque. They're interesting in Novi Pazar is one of the only truly multicultural cities in areas left in Serbia it partly because so close to Costa though. So you get a very multicultural there where you see a lot of Christians in a lot of Muslims on the streets together. Which after what happened with coast, VO L Bena isn't something you see everywhere. And so is kind of nice to have that Tyrians while you're in the country too. And remember that Serbia is not just a country of Serbs. It's a multicultural country. Will we should say the reason the they put the monasteries on the hillside wasn't? So they have agreed view. The surly or wasn't for the tourists, but more for defensibility, which tells you a little bit about what the region was like at the time that these were built is you needed a little more defensible position. I had this problem where I go to monasteries like I've been to too many orthodox monasteries like just traveling around the Balkans. It's impossible. If you wanna see escalates to not see and we talked on the last show. I was on about how real Monastir Bulgaria is gorgeous the difference between these ones in southern Serbia. Maybe other ones in on the peninsula is they don't have walls that are so high that you can't see them. Okay. So some monasteries they might be beautiful settings. But the walls will be so high that you can't see inner out, and that's also a defensive feature. But these defense is where they're located, and you can take in these amazing views with the monastery that aren't always available everywhere, even monasteries beautiful places. And then also Serbia's Ma. Ministers have really cool dogs. The let the dog just live there. If you love petty stray dogs, as I do I found the dogs of Belgrade to be a little bit snooty there take very well taken care of they don't really need your attention. But the monastery dogs really are excited to have your tension. Good. Still from Novi Pizarro. If you're only there for a week, unless you're moving onto Costa vote, you could go to Costa from there, or if you're leaving out of Belgrade e with drive back to Belgrade end the difference between one in two weeks is we would say just slow down. So instead of trying to do all Belgrade in three days. Enjoy it in four days instead of trying to do Novi side and olive oil Edina in two days. Take three days for Novi Saad from ski ski wear and maybe go to sa- Batista for two days and get to do what people really don't get to do which is really enjoy it. And then day go to Nisha, which is the third largest city in Serbia at it has some really interested in historic monuments. Got this really interesting World War Two holocaust memorial there. An-and maybe spending extra day it'll be his ours. You don't feel like you're just running around trying to check things off and you can actually enjoy maybe coffee on the main street or taken that miss fear a little bit too. You were. Saying Serbia's release mall, and the nice thing about that. Is you can really do everything fast or you could take your time. And my first trip to Serbia I did it fast because I had to and then on my most recent trip. We really Alison I spent two weeks in Belgrade to savory the city taking day trips than really seeing everything. So you could spend two weeks in Belgrade knock at board. So if you have to for the country, you can still do everything just save a little bit more. Any place else? We want to cover to we wanna start doing some of our wrap up questions. So one thing is there's a town called pinch Avro, which is right outside. Belgrade? You don't even need to do it as trip from the city, you could just take a public bus out there. But when we rented a car, drove to sue Batista. We stopped there on the way. And there is a memorial called the memorial complex to the pinch shave a holocaust that I think is really interested and really beautiful Yugoslavia. We've talked a lot about holocaust memorials in World War Two memorials because Slavia really did a good job of creating these amazing social realist works of art. We might have heard of them as fa- minutes, but that just means monument, and they're both amazing works of communist, art. But also commemorate will were too. So we'll were to was still brutal in Yugoslavia when the Nazis invaded Serbia. They called that operation operation punishment end. So as an. American. I've been to the beaches of Normandy. I've done a lot of World War Two tourism and history travel. I didn't appreciate like the Balkans. What the Balkans Woodward to in? The Balkans was like and so taking time as you've either whether you go to the one in credited to the one in knee or the one in Pancevo or even just the one in via grad taking time to go to these amazing, communist pieces of art that commemorate incredibly dark chapters history that if they had happened to American troops. We would have movies for but they happen to Balkan partisan. So you don't get they don't get taught to us. I think it really explains a lot about what World War Two was really like. At will was so much bigger. There's so many more will were two stories than we can handle. So I would say if you're there pick the time go to some of these mimics excellent one more thing, I want to talk about I actually haven't. So I spent probably a month and a half of my life in Serbia and yet over three tricks, and I still haven't made it out to so many places that I think are well worth seeing by there are also a lot of really beautiful natural places to see in Cervia as well there little bit far flung, which is why I haven't made it out there yet. But Tara national park is right on the border with Bosnia in it's supposed to be absolutely beautiful some beautiful lakes, and there's also the river canyon which has series of Ben's from viewpoint. You've been look at it. And it just looks like a snake curving in the landscape, it looks incredibly beautiful also high in the mountains kinda difficult to get. In southern Serbia. And one more thing that I heard a lot of servants talk about is the shark in eight which is railroad in the left of mountains that just makes sort of figure eight goes in a loop around the town of mokri Gora through the mountains of Severi, scenic old style train at looks really really beautiful. So on my fourth trip to Serbia because I know it's coming. I'm finally gonna make it out into the nature. But I always just kind of get sucked into the cities because Serbian cities are really interesting in. There is so much to do so many great things to eat and drink and enjoy in explorer, so but the nature in Serbia when I've seen photos of it are I've heard stories of friends who've gone there is seems really well worth seeking out. But you do need a car, and you do need maybe like a week just for the nature itself. You were standing in the prettiest spot in Serbia where he is standing. What are you looking at Stephanie will start with you? So when I was there when we were in soup Tita, we drove out to lake palette. It's a little lake it's ten kilometers from the border with Hungary. We got there right at golden. Our civic got to watch the sunset there. And it was serene. There's something magical about being near borders. They're really makes you think about the globe differently. And then on top of that sunset message with your brain. So I would say like Pollock at sunset. Excellent. Alison same question. My answer is also soobee Titze in a different part in standing in front right la- palace, which is the most beautiful most quintessential art nouveau building I've ever seen. It looks like it could be a painting or a Dollhouse. It's truly one of the most beautiful buildings. It's sort of like a light. Orange has the sort of painting that almost makes it look like a porcelain Cup. It's so detailed beautiful. It used to be a palace. But now it's museum, and I've never seen anything like it. And I think it's one of my favorite buildings in the world. It's really that. Beautiful. Excellent. For the listeners. I'd like you to appreciate that. When you look at the show notes, and for the link of what he's talking about here that someone is taking the time to figure out how to spell all of these Serbian words, and where we are. So that you can find them. So this the great episode. That is one of the hardest parts about traveling in Serbia is being able to say where you are. Luckily, Belgrade's easy enough. But. With confidence though. So so one tip is that if you read seraphic a lot of signs will be in ceramic and Latin but Latin transliteration doesn't read the way it's pronounced. But the surreal ick reads the way it's pronounced. So if you can read the relic read, the Sorolla, ignore the English completely, okay, doesn't take that much work to master this relic alphabet. There's a few tricks in there like your Ps or pies. And you're the thing that looks like a row and all those sorts of things, but it doesn't take that much time to master surreal at least in terms of pronouncing it, especially if you're going to Serbia as part of a trip where you're going to Bulgaria or Macedonia you'll wanna know cyrillic for those. Anyway, I know it sounds ridiculous to be like, oh, if you know cyrillic that but just like a lot of people that do travel eastern Europe will end up picking up relic at some point or just being the kind of people that want to know it. So that's my tip for Serbia is read the surrender. Nick at ignore the Latin pronunciation. Excellent. He read Suba out loud. It looks like sue badeah because the see isn't the same as in latte. We would pronounce it like hub. But so they don't really transliterated. Everything Jays are not like with a hard j it's like a why? But if you can just use the ceramic, alphabet, the servants outfit a tiny bit different thoroughly three extra letters. But it's not that hard to learn. If you're saying for more than a couple of days worth it like you can get the basics of the alphabet in about two days. If you study for like an hour to each day, you won't be able to read fluently, but you'll have the basics down, and then you can practice every time. He see assign end is kind of fun. Actually, it's like what I imagine. Being a little kid is like when you're first learning how to read learning how the world works in your eyes or scanning everything is kinda fun will appeal. The phone is thriller covetously has a lot in common with creek because they borrowed some of the Greek letters for. Alphabet because Saint zero was was Greek with from Greece. I think our book area user in Bulgaria area. But yeah, but he spoke creek. He spent a lot of time in Oregon navien that's often or it's very contentious. There's no one clear answer. I don't think, but I found that you'd be standing in front of a sign in Greece, for instance. And you at first your mind would go I don't understand this word at all. Because it has like it starts with a pie. I feel like I should solve it instead of reading it. And then you'd work it out that that was a p at that other pe- thing was an are. And then you'd realize that the scientist panorama, and then you realize I actually know that word. That language can just a few things in terms of how to pronounce a few of those characters can make a big difference. Excellent one thing that makes you laugh and say only in Serbia one of the things that I really like about travelling the Balkans in general is how it's not that they're cheap country that things are economical compared to America. But one of the things I love is when I get an attack. See and I go anywhere in Belgrade. And actually we attack app called cargo. That's kind of like Uber. They don't have over. Look, it was looking at credit card statement, and it was ten charges that were all three dollars eighteen cents and those where my taxi rides anywhere in this giant city that I wanted to go which is like right now, I'm in Berlin. And if I wanted to take a taxi to the other side of Berlin, I think it might big up to me would not be three dollars. It costs less to ticket taxi almost anywhere in Belgrade not out to the airport. But in the city than it does to take the subway in most baiter cities in western Europe. Excellent. Also, did you have an answer them? I had so much time to think that I don't have a good excuse for not having an empire. But I will just say cultural observation, I really just love how much people in Belgrade love being outside. And it's very different than in America. I feel people start to go inside is news. It starts to get cold issue. Like outdoor seatings on a big thing. But in Belgrade, people will get blankets out, and they will set until it gets really cold. They will sit out having their coffees and sitting under the blanket, and you know, drinking coffee chatting with their friends. It's very social culture, and they really enjoy being outdoors. Will I suspect it's going to depend where you're from in the US some of him who live in warmer climates outside for probably longer during the year. In-service you're allowed to smoke inside restaurants. Okay. They have nonsmoking sections at a lot of them, and it's so common to eat outside. But when I walk into a restaurant and I smell cigarette. Smoke in twenty eighteen I know that I'm in Serbia. And if you had a summariser be in just three words, what three words tease? I am insane. The and worth discovering that works. I would say charming hip, Belgrade is hip. Okay. Do not like Belgrade is a lot of times. Bill gets compared to for Lyn for like, how cool it is Bill graded so much cooler Mexican food. So you. Yeah. Tacos, talk it. Now. This is crucial information that everyone listening to this podcast needs to get Belgrade has the best Mexican food in all of Europe. And I am throwing down with John Lynch show me. No competition at all. But there's getting some competition. There's giving some. Yeah. But they have a Mexican chef who is so dedicated to fixing the sorry state of Mexican food in eastern Europe. But he actually flies in next lies cornmeal from Mexico imports it toward he has. And they are a dream like his handmade tortillas are amazing and Taco Bell stores. You can get poor competitor. For needs us. There's he's very very traditional that has like the salon onion on top Albright. Saul says it like I'm a Californian as well. And it's like exactly what my soul needed when I found this restaurant. I almost started to cry. I was so happy. My matrix looked a little concern for me. But it was like probably one of the best days of two thousand eighteen for me. I'm not even not even kidding people who travel for a week or two you have no idea of what you're raving about Mexican food, the long term travelers can relate. Cuisine does of us in America, especially in California, but other places as well tend to love that has really taken quite a while to establish itself outside of Mexico in the US, but it is coming into its own eventually seventy I think he's still gonna be one word. It was your second. One young Serbia's, really young everywhere you go. There are just young people out doing things and the young people that I've met there are some of the most passionate enthusiastic people that I've ever met. I don't know if you would told somebody in nineteen ninety five that kids born in nineteen ninety five in Serbia would be this optimistic and bead this working hard to make the planet better you, but every time I meet somebody under twenty five there. They blow my mind. Excellent. Our guest against our Stephanie Craig from history fan girl dot com. Alison greement from eternal arrive. Dot com and both of them from Sofia adventures dot com. And if we were looking for the best article on Sophia adventures dot com about Serbia where we going to send people. So we just finished our magnum opus this week, actually which. A hundred and one things to do in Belgrade. So when we say, you can do the stay there for two weeks. We're minute we did ninety five of the one hundred one things some that. We didn't do it because you can't do them in October. There's a Nazi ship that you can eat on. But it's only open in the summer. So we're obsessed with Belgrade where we love the FIA we're, but we're also obsessed with Belgrade, and we did our research, and we really went end figured out. What are the coolest things to do? And it's twelve thousand words, so you're going to Belgrade, and you have any questions hit us up on our website. But check this article out because we really put everything we know about the city into this article, and then we have a bunch of other Serbia stuff too. But that's our we'll put a link to that image show of Stephanie in Allison, thanks so much for coming. Back on amateur traveler and sharing with us your love for Serbia in Kangkyo. I got a new review in the podcast in tune 's from Rollins to fifty who said having traveled a lot this travel podcast, both scratches the itch on learning about new places and brings memories to the forefront on places I've visited five stars. Thanks so much. It's always helpful when people review the show in better yet. When people subscribe, that's actually helps people. Discover the amateur traveler with that we're going to end this episode of amateur traveller if you have any questions sent an Email to host at amateur traveler dot com or better yet. Leave a comment on this episode at amateur traveler dot com, and thanks so much for listening. Got see one. The Casson camp they building as me.
"Thank you for tuning into the World At Large brought to you by politics 1001 before we begin just a quick reminder to give us a follow share this with a friend and leave a review. Please enjoy this episode of The World At Large. Hello everybody today. We're sitting down with Nikola markovic a freelance journalist from Belgrade Serbia. Nicolas has worked on many projects throughout his career and like we said he's freelance and he's self-employed Nicola. How are you doing today? I'm doing fine. How are you? We're doing awesome. Yes, we are. All right. So recently Belarus held an election in which according to government polls 80% of the vote went towards the incumbent President Alexander. Lukashenko. Do you believe that these polls are accurate and are the protests going on around Belarus. They quote vocal minority. All right, let's spell never find out if the election was rigged or not. I believe lukashenko rig the election, but there is no evidence because he from a controls the central Election Commission in any case he is supported by us two different percentage of the population. Although there are many people who are not satisfied with his policy in there protesting now, so the protests go on although I think he managed to cost validate his power after the first wave of protests that took place right after the election on August 9th. So there were reportedly clashes and men's can in order other recent cities. Now the situation is wage, Louis so tensed there's no violence, but please make they keep arresting protestors during the week and on Sunday off. The opposition holes large relatives in Minsk and other major cities, but there's no results. They they did not manage to overthrow the government off on code he refuses to negotiate with them or to fulfil any of their demands. So as I said, there's no results on the protests can go on the page. It's a big question what will happen in the end because he's Now supported by Russia and the opposition does not have much choice at this point except keep protesting, but nobody can see the point anymore. So you said that lukashenko was supported by a large part of the population from what type of people would tend to support president lukashenko. It's certainly not not that many. I mean certainly less than in the past but he is still supported by elderly people and the rural population and also young people who work for both state-owned companies and there are also people who generally believe that he's a good leader on the other hand. There are many young people in Belarus believe that he should go because if some of us twenty-five or so then all he or she knows has a wife under Alexander lukashenko so they won't changes them. Although I think they're they're not aware that it changes can can be can can bring something that's much worse than what they already have. So it's a bit of a gambling and yes, I believe he is supported by I cannot say for sure. What's the percentage of the population? But he definitely has his own supporters. There are Analysts and journalists, especially on the west who claimed that he is 40 by like 3% of the people which is ridiculous that does not make sense at least thirty percent of the population. Strongly Pro lukashenko. That's that's my opinion and there are people may be approximately the same percentage who who are strongly anti location and the others are just waiting to see designs and then they also played joined the winner. And that's the situation that we already had in Ukraine prior to the conflict in the dumbass people. They're they're they were just waiting to see which option will prevail and now people who live and the part of the Damas that's controlled by Russia forces. They said they feel that they belong to the so-called the Russian World and those who remains on on the other side that are still controlled by Kiev they're dead. Pro Ukrainian so it's not that easy to explain but people that are they just wait to see what kind of happened in the end they will simply trying to win maybe it's not popular but that's the latest in that region Southeast Europe or actually Eastern Europe. Sorry, do you believe Luke sent lukashenko Will Survive the selection or will he be forced to keep? Well, you already survived his running the first round of clashes but the protesters and it's been a month already. So he survived he managed to constantly excused or no. It's a big question if he will survive if he will manage to stay in power for five years that's funny as in term inspires wage. Um, I think he Russia will make him change constitutions so he will have to completely to change Constitution to khong As far as Belarus and political systems, so maybe it will be forced to step down but not by the protestors but by the Kremlin and in that case, I must will make sure that they find jobs to replace bookish angle. Keep implementing pretty much the same policy, but I don't think he will be overthrown by the mob or something. I don't think that will happen. So many you said that under lukashenko Belarus has moved farther away economically and diplomatically from Russia. But as you said Russia supports a lukashenko being in power, but many of them that Miller has become, you know less independent on the Russian Federation overtime. So do you believe this to be true? Well that was suffering election lost much of its independence. Now. It's it's heavily dependent on Russia because Russia now for most of course lukashenko, but they're interesting as for lunches. We know suit you will have to make some concessions to the, you already made some and he hired Russian PR experts now, they're running campaign on social networks for location, and he's supposed to meet with Vladimir Putin Russian president very soon. And he will probably sign some agree with us. I believe they will be related to the energy issues and I'm pretty sure he will have to agree on Russian terms when it comes to the energy price for a therapist. So in the past Russia provided relatively cheap oil and gas to develop trust and I don't think that that could be the case unless lukashenko signs another wage. Men's that's related to the union state of Russian dollars. So in that case, you will have to integrate other words in economy into the Russian economy and people have to agree on the probably the common currency that will be printed in Moscow. Nothing in his first year. So this will just keep losing its sovereignty and independence from home. So that would be the consequence of all this All right. So you have commented a few times throughout your career as a journalist that is unfair to call Belarus the last dictatorship of Europe due to the government in Montenegro for example being in power since the collapse of the USSR. So given the recent election held in Montenegro and let's in which the incumbent president djukanovic was ousted. Have you changed your mind about that? Is that still an unfair statement? What would you say about that wage? I don't think Montenegro is dictatorship, but I don't think Belarus dictatorship either. That's that's something that the term that's wrong. They used by the mainstream lukashenko if he is a dictator is it's a very soft dictatorship in Montenegro. There's not a dealership. It's just an alternate area of style of leadership. So that's gone. I mean you can reach has been in power for thirty years and he's supported by the West so that's fine and it was for media is described as senior politician rather. And the last European dictator so as long as his follow the agenda, there won't be any problems and lukashenko on the other hand. So is he belongs to a crime? So to say is right now? He's just about to become Russian puppet. And in Montenegro, we have completely different situations so that the country is dependent on the west and it's in the western sphere of influence and they even if you can reach steps down right now or in three years when his term expires, so the comfortable simply keep following and implementing the same policy. So it will saying in NATO and nothing will change. Recently Serbia has announced that moved the embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem in Israel. Seeing as you live in Serbia. Is this something that you that is generally accepted by the population or the impacts of Serbia being the first country in Europe to do such a thing. Let us here surprised. Nobody actually believes someone that will happen. Although there are people who are aware that the government is served as simply has to sign any paper that gets from from us or from the use of Now we have the European Union saying that there won't be any progress regarding the membership of Serbia was its Embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. I don't think there will be in progress in in any case whatsoever. So even if the embassy remains in Tel Aviv, the boss not simply live Serbia joint survey has been negotiating for the past twenty years almost and there's there's a lot of progress from this point possible that the United States is simply not letting Serbia and the other is so-called Western Balkan countries joining the that's I think that's because of the energy that these countries off and that the United States seems to control us as the US is not willing to allow Europe to to control coal mines. For example And there will be some disagreements between the EU and the US regarding Serbian the other so-called Western Balkans, but whatever happens the whole region will remain in Western sphere of influence. And I think eventually Serbia will have to Thursday December see to to Jerusalem this year or next year or a couple of years. But if that's something that that was promised in signed and that will happen for sure. I'm on the other hand the country will spoil his relationship but the Palestine and with Arab Nations, but as I said this this country is surrounded by choice turn powers and is defected modern Colony that has to follow the instructions. So that's that's the case. So why do you think that the European Union is telling is warning Serbia that they're moving the embassy to Jerusalem can be a hindrance on their admission to their Union. Is there is there a reason that the EU is so against this decision? Well, especially the countries that aim to join you need to follow the common European policy, which is not always the case as we know but now with it comes to survey of everything is allowed and not alone sister when it comes to we can defeat its countries. So even when it comes to customer decided cost, okay, not generally you if they would be unlisted to Jerusalem. So I believe this is a some kind of a disagreement between the U and Washington and distribution costs of or just a collateral damage here from the reason as I said, I think it's it's related to the energy although mainstream media are not talking about that dog. So that's that's the main aspect of of this story and as we know Israel and the United States benefited from this so-called history deal Serbia Serbia customer deal. So the United Okay, so Serbia, it should they move their Embassy could could set the ground works for other countries came up to do the same thing. For example, the Croatian foreign minister just visited Israel yesterday and foreign minister of Israel Ashkenazi put a lot of pressure on Chrome on the Croatian Envoy to be moved there. I proceeded as well. So do you think that if Serbia does move it to Jerusalem, do you think the other countries in Europe will follow I think they will follow regardless of what Serbia it does. It's a matter of time before all the countries in the world remove their emphasis to Jerusalem. We see that even our country start normalizing their relations, but Israel for instance United Arab Emirates and I think the other Arab Nations will follow the pattern and eventually they will recognize Israel. It might take decades, but I think that will happen and then they will simply recognize that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. But what is interesting here when it comes to charity is the fact that Serbia is off European countries, you mentioned that I recognize Jerusalem and on the other hand Israel what it is real do it's it recognized cost a lot. So it would be expected and appreciated if Israel. Respected the so-called sovereignty of Serbia and did not recognize a customer but no it recognize customers are being made an exception. I'm sorry. I made a concession to Israel and recognize Jerusalem, which is funny thing. But as I said when some countries defeated and it simply has to to do what it's told to do. That's that's that's exactly what happened here. So recently there's kind of been a clip that went a little viral of President fit chick and the White House being a little bit surprised by the announcement of the embassy be moved to Jerusalem. You see I'm looking through his papers after president u.s. President Donald Trump announced the move. You kind of looked around he was flipping through the paper that looked like he was a little confused. So did you have any comments on that page? Apparently he didn't know what he was signing it possible. They they brought him there just to sign paper that they brought and I don't see anything surprising they're dead. I think the opinion leader is one owner of that either and as I said that negotiation and that deal that they made it has very little to do with wage should be incarcerated has much more to do with United States in Israel and their energy political agendas both in the Middle East and in the Broncos. Also in the deal house was the point of the entire meeting Serbia and Kosovo. Boom announced host. Yeah conservative Coatesville announced their intentions to boost economic ties and cooperation. So do you believe that full normalization is a possibility. Eventually, yes, although the economy of Serbian economy. Of course, they're extremely weak and dependent on laws and the depending on the west side of the economy the economies of both nations are basically homes and off depending on the by the Western on was so we see that the United States is pressuring both Belgrade and Pristina to home build a highway to connect cost of south of Serbia. Neither Serbian in our customer needs that highway but it's quite obvious that someone else needs. So I think it's United States and Western Powers So eventually yeah there there may be a progress one comes to the economy. But again, it will be dead. powers of little benefit rather than local populations All right. So one of the last questions we have for you today is what is your favorite part about living in Serbia? It's extremely hard to say because I know there's there's so so many bad things here. But on the other hand, I was I was born here and raised here. So it's it's kind of my Judy to leave here. It's it's not easy to explain but I eventually there until you out of my life and hope that my children will leave here. No matter how that is. Hopefully it will be better someday, although I don't think so, but maybe we will manage to improve something. All right. Well, that is all we have for you today. So again everyone we are sitting down with with journalists and Nikola Pekovic, and he again is a freelance journalist. He operates in Belgrade Serbia, and as you can see is just very awesome person. So if you're interested definitely look them he has a lot of who work online and yeah, very very very smart intelligent person. So with that we're going to be wrapping up mister makovich is really nice to meet you and we hope you have a great rest of your day. Okay, so, thank you. Bye.
172: Soup, Part II
"It aren't listed. Chris would like to know about this. Is this sort of follow up. We don't usually do follow up on robot or we're not we're going to do it now. this is about drinks. We we talked about soup. And what makes a soup. That was a while ago. Chris nobody drinks. What separates drinks drinks from food? If soup is a food then being a liquid is not what separates drink from food is at the method by which you partake of it. It the the famous line here is somebody will say you know it. You Know I. I drank the soup. And it's like well. Did you drink the soup or a mom will. I'll say your soup like do you eat soup. Do you drink soup. So what's what's a drink. John versus something you would eat. Where's the word that line lie so for drinks? I think it depends on their role in the meal when you have a drink with a meal it's purposes to be the liquid component. Like think of this is the thing that I've done and I think a lot of people have done. Have you ever had soup and had a drink with your soup Sure so the only reason that makes sense. It's not because like the soup isn't liquid enough. You can have like chicken soup which is very liquid like not a lot of chicken a lot of anything else and it just mostly like chicken broth with maybe one or two little vegetables around there and a couple of bits of chicken. It's not like you're lacking for liquid. But you still want to have a drink with it now. Part of that is because soup sent to be savory savory salty and you want something sort of something non salty to satisfy your thirst and I think that's part of it. I think a drink not saying there can't be savory drinks but if you you have a drink that crosses a certain level of saltiness you're not actually slaking your thirst so it is failing to function as a drink but anyway there's a role in the meal right and the role. The drinking in the meal is the thing you go to when you are thirsty. And it's usually in a cup you drink when you're thirsty and I don't think soup qualify all five of you reverse that and put the water in the ball and chicken soup and the Cup when you're thirsty you wouldn't go to the company more you'd go to the bowl of water right so I think to be a drink. It is to fulfill that role in the meal process or like if there's no meal to fulfill that role period. I'm thirsty. I need a drink. Someone hands hands you a couple of lentil soup when you're thirsty you'RE GONNA be like you're going to say who is this person and I hate them. I mean there's very little you almost any kind of broth you can think of. It's like I'm thirsty. Thirsty I need a drink. So it's not soup and I think that that role that function whether in the Miller outside of it is what makes a drink and drink and let this Serbia lesson to everybody who is already writing in to say. Does that mean that tea and coffee are are soups. No they're not gonNA be thirsty and have some tea that that will get rid of your thirst of your marched and you have a Nice Cup of dates dream coffee. It's a drink. It's not a soup made with tea leaves. It's a drink because you drink it and thirsty and your throat is little. Aw acting up yeah exactly.
The Curious Case of Holocaust Memory in Former Communist Countries
"This is is to be one tel aviv review review hello and welcome to the tel aviv review where we have conversations precisions with authors about their books and research and other things that we like. I'm dahlia shenlin and before we start. I'd like to introduce a cool new feature. Our guests and topics often often spark interesting discussions online scattered around facebook twitter direct emails and now we're creating a special patriot post each episode where you can ask follow up questions or discuss the topics with other listeners we will link to the post directly in each episode's show notes just fine when your where your podcast app puts the show notes click on the link and you'll get directly directly to the post game and i will then review the comments and address the most interesting ones in the following episode. You don't have to be a supporter of the show to join the discussion. Although we encourage that of ah course just go to patriot dot com slash tel aviv review this episode is brought to you by the israel office of the konrad adenauer foundation it's part of our series on democracy democracy populism and authoritarian trends around the world as well as israel europe relations israel germany relations and holocaust memory and learning trust me our next guest touches on pretty much coach all of those items her name's doctor yelling subotic professor of political science at georgia state university. She was formerly human rights coordinator for the open society institute and a contributor shooter at radio be ninety to belgrade and we're talking to you from belgrade serbia. We'll be talking about her second book just about to be published yellow star redstar our holocaust remembrance after communism published by cornell university press this year yellow birch welcome to the show. Thank you very much great to be here reading your book. It's almost as if the holocaust has two parallel memory lives memory in the west and memory under communism and then of course the change after communism. How would you characterize the biggest the difference between the two during the communist years first and then we'll talk about the next phase so call goes memory has developed gradually and it did not really exist and immediate aftermath of world war two that we didn't even have a word for it and so in the immediate aftermath of world war two neither in the west and the east was there really an understanding of the holocaust as a a separate discrete event outside of world war two this has changed in the west the with some of the high profile trials the eichmann trial in jerusalem the frankfurt <hes> trials the auschwitz trials would some more interested in the holocaust from popular media the holocaust t._v. show that was aired and in germany for example in the late seventies early eighties so around the seventeen seventies and into the eighties a particular narrative of the holocaust cost developed in the west that centers on the unique features of jewish suffering and talks about the holocaust is a completely discrete event and that needs to be understood and appreciated on its own regardless of the other parameters a war to in that memory. The memory of jewish suffering is the central gentleman. Obviously there were other additional elements added over time so we now know memorials other victims of the holocaust including the roma sinti g._t. Victims and all sorts of other people who were targeted by nazis at the same time in the east under communism there was really no memory of the holocaust so it's not as if it's it's not even as if he developed differently just didn't develop and this is for a couple of reasons. The most obvious reason was that all narratives about the past tightly controlled on the various communist regimes. This is especially the case in the soviet union that maintained a very very tight lid over what narration is allowed and so in the soviet union and countries countries that are under soviet union influence really did not think of the holocaust outside of world war two and focused on very patriotic memory the all of the red army liberating camps for example so to extend that the idea of the holocaust existed it was in the context of how communist armies save save the world from fascism. There was also almost no interest in understanding memorializing the specifically jewish aspect of the holocaust and this is again for the same political reason but also for a very obvious reason and that is that there are almost no jobs left in the east and there were very few small most marginalized marginalising jewish communities that felt insecure an insecure enough to not try to create their own memory of the holocaust. This changed aimed at the end of communism where the main political strategy of post-communist states was to criminalise and de-legitimize. They're communist legacy and in that sense they wanted to join europe and they wanted to join the european narratives of world war two but with some unique features and and which we're going to talk about so in other words remembering the holocaust per se as a discrete element within world war two became part of their process of moving towards the west from any of these post-communist countries yes but a lot of it was under western pressure there was really very little if any local homegrown interest in memorialize holocaust holocaust after communism and this is because there were so few jews left but also because there's a certain discomfort in much of these european space with remembering the holocaust again for quite obvious reasons which is that was massive local complicity massive local collaboration collaboration meaning very different things from actual collaboration asian in the killing as was the case in some of the baltic countries to actually having your own fascist puppet states that random show on its own like in croatia or romania or to some extent in hungary as well so there's there's a discomfort in discussing the role that local non-jewish majorities had in the holocaust but also i it was a very post-communist moment was a moment where east european countries wanting to join the west and they wanted to really destroy oy legacy of communism as feature of their identity and what else how else can you do that instead of saying that communism was this horrible totalitarian syrian system that is almost akin to the holocaust that has created as many almost sometimes even more atrocities than the holocaust so that became the memory prevalent but it's a bit strange because of course the red army fought the nazi so they on the one hand elevate as you put it the status of communism to the crimes of nazism but on the other hand the two who were completely opposed during the war. How do they square that well. There's a difference for example in how russia memorialize holocaust immediately after communism and to this day and really the rest of eastern europe in russia the memory of the red army and the great patriotic war still exists putin talks about this all the time so in that sense in russia the memory continues the news that has not changed it is in the non-russian east european countries wanting to turn towards the west where that memory started to share. I see so these two are and sort of contradiction. The first one is sort of a desire to reject everything with relation to communism and if those crimes are elevated to the status of nazism then they have to jettison listen even the history such as it was of either resistance or complicity either way i mean they have to sort of reject anything to do with the holocaust but on the other hand needing to remember it in the way the west does as a ticket to the west what happens in the tension between those two needs so immediately after communism there was a push towards liberalisation shen and there was also a great interest shown by most these japan countries have joined the european union and the european union started the process of east european and enlargement argument in couple of waves the same process that at least nominally exists until today but as part of the process of getting into the e._u. the e._u. itself including some additional european institutions like for example the council of europe set a very elaborate set of standards for states about how many reforms and one of the reforms was a form of memory reform if you will so their expectations just on the whole cost or on other things to their specific solution on remembering the holocaust there were that were placed on countries in expectation that they would fulfil but then there were many many other reforms anything for market reform to democrat democratic reforms but in terms of memory in terms of memory there was an expectation including some specific legislative documents and resolutions by the european union nyan that countries not only need to memorialize holocaust the holocaust in a way that is compatible with how the west memorial is is it but also in terms of restitution and <hes> property transfer and repayments and reputations and that again was new show great discomfort because all of a sudden these countries are faced with calls for institution and reparation of the population that doesn't have representation and at a time when they're going through massive economic transactions and doesn't this generate quite a bit of not only discomfort but also a sense of hypocrisy in relation to the west yes and so there was a great sense of resentment on behalf of a lot of east european states who were saying stuff like well yes of course we need to face our past but you didn't you france. Didn't you belgium. Didn't you italy. Didn't i don't see you providing all the services services that you want us to do. When you are wealthier than we than we are and you also had your collaborators or yes and so there was a feeling of the west going around around disciplining these unruly easterners which was very much resented especially in the early european union enlargement states like the baltics or poland or hungary so that was absolutely resentment on that front but there's an additional resentment which is how we are only supposed to talk about a holocaust how come you. I don't want to recognize the suffering endured under communism so partly the strategy of this new memory politics in post-communist eastern europe was to elevate the memory of communism to make it on par with the memory of the holocaust developing. Do you think this is for ill intention of denying their guilt and the responsibility or her or this suffering was very genuine and they were still coping with this immense trauma of living under the crimes of communism. I mean you talk about the two black books and i i would love you to explain them but also do they have to be in contradiction to one another. Do they cancel one another out or can they be <hes> two sides of a larger picture. Tell us what they are online right so clearly. The crimes of communism were massive. Clearly there were human rights abuses that were deputations assassinations that was just general misery serie throughout the region. The problem is in my in my view that there there was a variety of communism that is now all retroactively flattened as if this was one big era era of terror and i think we need to really differentiate between a very specific reign of terror under stalin and then somewhat more liberal period after astonishes death and also we have to differentiate kind of the geography of communism communism was not the same all over the region yugoslavia had a very very different version of communism than most of the other countries in the soviet union in fact yugoslavia which is a topic of my book had had broken with soviet union broken would stalin and developed a very different much more liberal humane you know it used to be called socialism listen with the human face and so in many ways this movement after communism to say that entire history of the twentieth century central and eastern europe was a history of stalinist terror is just not accurate so the first thing is differentiating that communism was not the same throughout its long period and he was definitely not the same throughout the region so once we establish that then there is a discussion about why we should be careful when we compare impair the crimes of communism with crimes of the holocaust certainly crimes of communism deserve their own memorization. That's absolutely obvious and clearly the right thing to do. The problem is that the push to memorialize communism then moved the memory of holocaust away replaced it so instead of becoming and a second different but equally important memory it replaced in many ways the memory of the holocaust and that is the kind of problem that i'm interested interested in okay. I mean you mentioned yugoslavia and we are here in belgrade so i want to talk about <hes>. The specific different directions of the holocaust memory took in your different cases. I'm sorry we'll i'll have chance to get into all of them because they're all interesting and i but i don't think our listeners have to be <hes> ugo files like me to appreciate how interesting and complex the development of holocaust because memory is <hes>. What was the path of holocaust remembrance in serbia. Can you try to characterize it from the postwar years during yugoslavia's second yugoslavia under not though and then the transition short so as i said yugoslavia had a different type of communism and again just in the same as in other countries it also develop differently through time so there was a more doctrinaire <hes> period right after world war two and then more liberalisation later but in the immediate aftermath of world war to the jewish community in yugoslavia serbia was a part of was completely decimated. <hes> almost eighty percent of serbian jews were killed community that remained was very small and there were two waves of aliya to israel so the community god disperse so but they're still existed <hes> jewish organizations that try to work with the state state and preserve holocaust memory what is interesting in the serbia case and to some extent also in the creation case because croatia was also part of yugoslavia is that there was is a limited but still there was space for juice. Remember the holocaust of the jewish way which is different again soviet union where the the state did not allow how for specifically jewish memorization including for example not allowing memorials still have hebrew or even yishai script and it's not even intuitive and yugoslavia where tito was working so hard to create an identity that you know that supersedes ethnic nationalities so was this a little bit out of the ordinary. Yes it was out of the ordinary because you as you rightly point out the the ideology of tito and yugoslavia after world war two was <hes> with he called brotherhood and unity which really means <hes> doctrinal multi-culturalism culturally where individual nations and peoples are not supposed to be celebrated for their diversity but if but but for their commitment to this larger super national sense viewer slimness but there was a lot of goodwill towards the jewish jewish community after the war <hes> partly it's because in serbia especially the jewish community was very well integrated before the war there was a lot of goodwill will towards a lot of jews who fought both enroll were one but especially in world war two the communist army the partisan army that utah was the at the head of had a very high percentage of jewish partisans who not only fought physically the nazis but also then after the war emerged as leaders in the communist movement. You were slavia also had no history of anticipating purges within the communist party. I came to poland or hungary soviet union. So the the the life of communist jews and the life of yugoslav jews under communism was certainly much better and more favorable than in other regions so i think think partly because of that goodwill and a sense of belonging the jewish community in yugoslavia. I felt that they could mobilize for some sort of holocaust memory which was not the case elsewhere so in the immediate years after the war there was an attempt to memorialize through actual monument building and so there was a a period in the mid nineteen fifties were quite a few large monuments to the holocaust were built in cooperation with the jewish community again. This was unheard of into saugus union. You couldn't do this and so here we are in belgrade and one of these very early memorials from early. Fifties fifties exists at the jewish sephardic <hes> cemetery so there was a space for this but even then the space for jewish memorization had to be in dialogue with the communist doctrine so when you read how these monuments are being announced it's clear that their memorialize jewish suffering but in the context thanks of our greatest suffering as communists against ashes so they always had to kind of plug their own story within the larger narrative of the communist spirit but again as i said there was some space this changed <hes> from ninety nine ninety one onward when you were slavia got that engulfed in a war of yugoslav <hes> succession and most of those memories than became replaced with the memories of maurice and war so now the memories of the wars of nine thousand nine hundred ninety s became more prevalent in the public discourse than any memory of the holocaust but also happened in that period did was that the hall cost and especially the history of jewish suffering became in the serbian case utilized for serbian national mobilization so serbian serbian nationalists right up to the rise of milosevic in the mid eighties and then throughout his reign and even after he was gone have developed a narrative of serbs as juice bear with me here. It's an interesting. I think it's one of the most fascinating parts so the book to be honest but there's lots of fascinating part so i'm not going to bias our listeners so the serbs jews idea is is a very strange one but it's the one that developed in the mid eighties by <hes> some prominent serbian writers and serbian intellectuals basically what they wanted to say is that serbs have a history of victimsation like the jews serbs have a history of being targeted by fascists like the jews serbs were killed with the jews in criminal concentration camps and so there's this long long history of serbs and jews being together and that was very important during the time of serb nationalist mobilization in the early eighties to fight against the independent crash and even use the term serbo phobia around europe because if this is really a pan-european epidemic of anti-serb feeling yes and they would compares what they called server phobia antisemitism and there was this constant narrative the jews understand the jews will be on our side because we were on their aside. There's a very strong narrative in the serbian case that serbia has no history of antisemitism and that serbs were extraordinary doing the holocaust cost in helping their fellow jordan exactly true as your book documents this is it's a it's partly true so i will say that there's definitely definitely a different level of popular antisemitism in serbia versus some other cases in the sense that popular antisemitism amethyst was really not a prevalent thing in the run-up to world war two and again. I think it's because this goodwill that serbian jews developed by fighting in large numbers in world war one but we don't have evidence really historical evidence of massive popular antisemitism in serbia so in that sense that narrative each through however we have a strong history of institutional antisemitism. There's cultural antisemitism. There's antisemitism. I'm from the serbian orthodox church. There's antisemitism church's teachings so all of these more negative elements of serbian serbian relations with jews are not part of how how people think of themselves so even if we really acknowledged that popular antisemitism antisemitism was not present and there were no pogroms of serbs against jews that did not happen what did happen that serbian government collaborated and hat right and serbia had a quisling government that is a very unpleasant truth about serbia under occupation that is in conflict with this larger sense of serbs and jews being friends so the history of collaboration is not the one that's widely discussed widely taught it's interesting textbooks mentioned in passing pierre and it's always mentioned in the context that serbs had no choice that everybody had to survive and so the only thing that the government could do is collaborate wish story everywhere. I mean i want to ask you. What i think is kind of a complex question so i'm going to hope that it that i can convey it properly. It seems to me like in your description of this part of of of <hes> yugoslavian history that you're somewhat critical measured of how communist yugoslavia kind of folded the jewish victimhood into the larger yugoslav identity narrative which you discussed whereas it seems like you're arguing that there should have been more space to distinguish the crimes against jews as specific crimes of the nazi genocide and aside but if you think back to that period and what tito seems to have been trying to do which is cope with a terrible collective trauma on an unprecedented scale and also maybe in in his vision create a society where precisely that kind of ethnic ethnic distinction was what led to these kinds of crimes this kind of experiment and new identity and along the way. Maybe take the serbian people away from the the. I think you call it a cult of victimhood so i guess my question is can you have it. Both ways. I mean is there. Is there ever a way to get all of those things in there right and that's that's a remarkable important point. I do think that the history of holocaust commemoration under communist yugoslavia is <hes> overall. He's still memorization which is again not something we can say about better. There was more space there was more interest but the thing that was really interesting about jewish life post world war two is that you know jews liked yugoslavia because they appreciated the interest in multi-culturalism. They felt comfortable in a society where nationalism was an ethnic nationalism nationalism was suppressed but multi-culturalism is valued. They found their place and there's it's. It's quite clear why they felt loyal to the yugoslav state eight after the war obviously loyal because the partisans you know killed an ad season and provided the security yeah but also there was a sense of commitment to creating this utopia of multicultural multinational supranational space ace that we'll help jews not stand out and we'll give them a layer of protection because they're just one group among many right now. I want to just barely barely dip into a few of the other cases because you have interesting terms for characterizing them in serbia. You've talked about memory inversion which you can explain briefly but i also want to ask you what you mean by memory divergence in croatia and memory inflation in lithuania. Can you discuss what you mean by these terms yes so in the serbian case talked about memory inversion where really the the narrative and this is a contemporary narrative is more so the cost is not denied. The holocaust is not even in the face of holocaust revisionism awesome. I think that'd be too strong. It's more about talking about talking about a holocaust to really talk about serbian suffer for something else so it's using the holocaust memory to say okay see you remember the camps and you remember you may see aided bodies and you remember what those pictures look like well. That's also what serbian victimsation looked like so. It's not a a denial of the holocaust is just using to tell the different stories so the memory in that sense these inverted from the jewish victims of the holocaust into serbian victims of either creation genocide during world war two or of more recent civil international conflict in bosnia and creche where serb saw themselves as the victims again use the narrative the serbs juice it also in the serbian case help continue the narrative that serves as victims could not be perpetrators so it helps deflect criticisms of the more recent war deflects calls for understanding and acknowledging genocide in in bosnia for example because the narrative is again we as victims could have not been we wouldn't know anything about this cost is very helpful for the narrative of serbia both in the ninety s and especially today in the creation case. I talk about memory divergence because they're so croatia had <unk> poppet nazi state in gracia. The atrocities were committed by the gene not bedrooms. There was obviously german coordination asia in terms of the final solution so germany was very clear about monitoring deportation of jews to camps in the east but gracia under <hes> the independence of croatia during world war two had an archipelago of local concentration camps so the i stress this because craciun responsibility for a caller cost is croatian responsibility concentrated for holocaust as well and the that creates a huge memory problem for country that now wants to join the e._u. and successfully did so couple of years ago and they would much much rather not talk about the the local responsibility of the should asia that has become somewhat rehabilitated in somewhat even normalized in <hes> in the last few years so in cratia the memory has diverged from the memory of the holocaust that can be now deflected onto germany and yes we will accept that horrible things happen the call constables horrible but it was the germans and so that's one element of the narrative that continues but he diverges from a broader genocide genocide against the serbs which the croatian fascist regime did so <hes> scholars and cratia have used this to talk about doc. Yes genocide no which means yes we can talk about a holocaust because it's the german thing but we don't wanna talk about the genocide apply to the crimes that we've done yes and and the genocide against the serbs that was also part of the atrocity regime of the independence of croatia during world war two that was not aww sanctioned by germany in fact germany was kind of annoyed that so much effort is being placed in killing all the serbs because there are all these other jews that need to be loaded onto trucks and on trains to auschwitz while you guys wasting your time with all these serbian killing and so that is and that's a very difficult problem for chris to deal with and it also reflects a great sense of security for the serbian minority today's cratia because they feel that they are kind of minority under threat and lithuania the memory yes in leeds complete. I talked about the <hes>. The memo remember flation in lithuania and this is the case <hes> in in much of the former soviet union countries especially in the baltics. The the memory of the holocaust is conflicted with the memory of the soviet union deportations so a lot of the understanding of the holocaust in lithuania is he's as part of a larger a world war two context and the larger context of the twentieth century where yes there was a nazi occupation. Yes there was crawl but then there was also the soggy deportations and also the does go to the soviet genocide which they call and so the the narrative in lithuania lena has developed that there were two genocides that was the genocides of the nazis against the jews but then there was also the genocide of the soviets against the lithuanians and again here that using the language that we have developed up to talk about the holocaust language genocide to criminalise and conflated with their own victimization under soviet union so what i think is really interesting about your yearbook. Is it on the one hand. It's really a scrupulous very insightful work of history <hes> but you also managed to be future oriented raise the alarm bells about the current moment you know when you look look at how these inversions or whatever they are feeding into nationalist narratives the rise of the far-right and like you said a sort of legitimization for example in croatia of the stashower regime a that is seems to be taking place specifically in some of the post communist societies. How is the holocaust memory being feeding into that. If at all i mean i think you're implying that is but how yes i was motivated to write the book because of our current political moment i mean i i'm i'm very distressed to see how the past is remembered or how'd that memory is abused <hes> for contemporary political purposes and by this i mean really de-coupling the memory of the holocaust from the memory of other crimes using the holocaust to as i explained in the in the in the previous segment talk about crimes against your own nation in your own victimization the communication but also really forgetting that the atrocities of the holocaust happened in those places with massive local complicity we city and collaboration and in many cases with local support it also i think forgotten the huge impact that anti-fascist ashes partisan resistance had and so i think that in our anti-communist moment and the joyfulness of the end of communism we have also forgotten and have <hes> made the anti-fascist resistance <hes> something that we no longer celebrated like throwing out the baby with the bathwater and so what has that produce these once you say that anti-fascism is no longer important that makes fascism seem less threatening seems less horrible bowl and there's a tremendous attempt across the european continent and north america as well to really kind of clean up and polish some of the fascist ideology not use that language anymore but you use the images the symbolism and in some casey's even policies that were set up in the thirties to to now deal with other kinds of problems because those guys is worthy anticommunist at the time and the big zeal is to is to sort of jettison everything yet so those guys are somehow okay being relegated so there's there's a certain <hes> whitewashing whitewashing of history in rio forgetting of what war two was really about and forgetting forgetting of the fascist ideologies that that brought the holocaust and genocide to the european continent. You're one of the <hes> details at stuck out at me up. <hes> in your analysis of serbia was the role of the chetniks next because i always thought of them as also nationalist group but fighting the nazis you point out that they weren't truly fighting. No no no no no no is a yes yeah absolutely because yes. I'm listening so that chetniks the full names the homeland army were royalist so so it was a kingdom and this was royalist army of the kingdom and they did side with the allies <hes> for the first year era so but about a year into the occupation they switch sides and so they became allies off off the axis powers and they have committed massive atrocities against non-serbs populations especially against croatian civilians muslim civilians and they remained allied allied with the axis until the very end of the war the problem is that they were allied with the allies for the first year and that is the pass that is now remember that's right but what is not remembered is the three years of fighting with the nazis including participating in atrocities the cities in mass killings <hes> i mean clearly they were an an ally of a fascist <unk> occupying force and in serbia today. There's a great effort sort at rehabilitating the ethnic send even talking about how there were equally anti-fascist movement but from the right verses verses communist partisan swore anti-fascist movement from the left but that is not what historical evidence suggests this i have. I want to end with a sort of bigger question about what this book books. I think what it what it did to me. In a way was bring me back to nineteen eighty nine when the wall fell and it felt like the iron curtain was lifting and now we could say oh look how they did do things over there and so now in this book we had that moment of saying lifting the curtain and saying this is how a communist society different parts of it remember remember the holocaust us before the fall of communism afterwards and it seems the big theme that we that emerges is that there was some sort of using of the memory for identity creation and for other political and social purposes but i guess i really want to understand. How different is that truly from the west. Can we really say that in the western world we have of an objective approach to memory and we do not use it for political and social purposes or it's just transparent to us because we live in the west and we're used to it. Oh absolutely absolutely and i wanna make it very clear that i my book is not arguing that there's no usage of the holocaust and the west just focused on the east because i wanted to focus on the on the geographic location where most of the holocaust played out and i also wanted to focus on this moment of end of communism which is more important for east european understanding adding of the holocaust because of this intervening fifty to seventy five years of communism which the west did not have but clearly there are not just revisionist histories written in the west but there is also an attempt to whitewash the the collaboration the complicity their countries countries have developed countries like france belgium the netherlands italy even have developed these narratives about resistance and saving and <hes> some of them are true but not all of them through there was much more collaboration than there was resistance and i think we need to talk about that in the context of the west just as much i was just interested in specifically the change that communism brought and so there's there's more complexity because of the era of communism but also because the geographic location of the holocaust these more intimate in in the eastern yeah well. I guess i think we share the hope that an analyzing these factors and how they're playing out now we can learn. There's something about the current political moment that seems so precarious from those countries yes it seems precarious and in it i would suggest that is precarious because the the wayne which war two was remembered was never really processed. It was not processed it was not dealt with and he was not understood throughout the long period of communism and it is is not processed and he's not understood today. There's tremendous resistance to acknowledging local role in crimes times and this is again universal. This is as much in france as it is in poland but countries like poland have now taken this to a really a different level where they have tried to legislate memory and even criminalise any attempt at suggesting that there was polish complicity and we have similar a memory laws that are being passed in ukraine <hes> il wayne yep <hes> wanting to pass one of those laws <hes> in there's an attempt to legislate late how the past is remembered specifically to not even insinuate that there was some local complicity. I think that's important and again. This is focused on the eastern eastern european memory <hes> specifically because the not just the issue local complicity but also this show of social economic transfer for the massive wealth transferred the property exchange that eastern european countries benefited from the call costs <hes> that is it's a very controversial thing to say and it's massively resisted in in the region but i think that that is a critical element in coming to terms with what the world war two really was like well. I hope we do manage to one day in the future. Somehow come to terms but i i i fear and i think not just fear that memory will always be put to the service service of some sort of future. Political agenda seems to me the way it always is memories not history memories what we remember if you choose to remember when she's remembering that his inheritance inheritance political right well. You've had a lot of light on this so <hes> i wanna thank you yell at us about talking about your book yellow star red star holocaust remembrance after communism everybody you go out and read it very soon. <hes> thanks also to give him altamira are sound engineer into georgia foscarini anytime shell producers and to the israel office of the konrad adenauer shifting for their support now request many or most of you listen to us on the apple podcast app and we'd like to ask you to please consider writing a review a good one bad one critical we like all kinds just go to the ratings and review section and then right one you too can support us by going to our website teal v one dot f._m. Slash tel-aviv review and subscribing on our patriot campaign where we have perks perks and gifts find them. You'll enjoy them. Check out our archive with almost five hundred interviews. If you like us you can also like us on facebook. Our website is called. The tel aviv review. Podcast ideas is from israel and follow us on twitter join us again next week for another edition of the tel aviv review and until then good bye.
The 18-year-old Who Might Be Warriors' Draft Target
"To the fifty first step sort of warriors off court, San Francisco Chronicle's NBA podcast. I'm your host warriors beat Radyr Connor Laterna. And today, we're taking a look at the player, Golden State doesn't necessarily want you to know about yet, at least Santa Cruz warriors. Big man, Alan smile, each Golden State's G league, affiliate, racism eyebrows. When it traded up to the number four pick and Tober G league drafted takes mild each a six foot ten power Ford from Belgrade Serbia, but never played it any level higher than the Serbian third-division or under nineteen junior league at eighteen years old smile each of the youngest player in G league history and will be eligible for June's MBA draft by having him play with Santa Cruz this season. Golden State has had roughly six months to evaluate smile. Each first without worrying about him getting poached by another NBA team as a column smaller gauge who could barely speak a word of English when he arrived in Santa cours as steadily acclimated to the American culture in plain style. Over the course of the season is beginning to generate buzz as a possible second round draft pick many folks on the Lee believe that the warriors have tried to keep smile as hidden as possible might have been why they didn't play him in both of their two games in simmers G league. Showcase Las Vegas. The lawyers contend the smile each was tired, and that they wanted to give exposure to their callable players, but some scouts are convinced that Golden State is so high on him that it'll look into doing whatever it needs to do to make sure it can take him in June strapped. I wasn't Santa Cruz on Friday and watched mileage come off the bench to post twenty one points, eleven rebounds, and three assists in the warriors. Winter the Agua Caliente clippers after the game I caught up with Santa Cruz general manager Kent lake up Santa Cruz, head coach, Aaron miles and smog each himself. I'll have all three of those interviews after the break. Hi, it's header night columnist for the San Francisco Chronicle and host of the podcast, San Francisco city insider, I convinced the city's movers and shakers to tell me what's going right with San Francisco, and what's going very wrong. People like mayor London breed and billionaire marked benef- have talked about homelessness filthy streets, car break ins, and some real tricky subjects like where they go for the city's best burrito. Get the inside scoop and sim laughs on San Francisco city insider. Kid Lincoln, whose Golden State majority owner Joe lake of sun is the man behind smile. Each is unlikely arrival in Santa Cruz, it was discovered smile eastern his scouting trip to Serbia two years ago during our conversation Friday at Kaiser Permanente arena, he did tell all that went into bringing Saudi Santa Cruz and help insure he had a smooth transition. The warriors. I'll so far. I know he played in his Serbia, read or. Yeah, he played in Serbia. So I I'd been over on a scouting trip in Cervia couple years back in. Last year and I'd seen him. So, you know, one of those things we saw and. He wanted to come over. And so we you know when he was in the draft decided to take a chance on him. And obviously, we didn't we hadn't seen him play extensively. But you know, it was one of those things where we just wanted to bring him over and wanted to get a taste of American basketball, professional basketball, really kind of first time, obviously, it's kind of unique path, you know, how he even thought of that as a viable option to enter the draft for that age. I mean, I Don I couldn't speak to like all got to talk to him when you were scouting them or. I I mean, there's there wasn't like a lot of communicating. I'm just because you know, you go and see a lot of games and that was. And that was. Third division that you were who's in the yes when I didn't seem playing a game out. But but yeah. So I mean, there was it wasn't like there wasn't like a full-fledged. Thing we had been going back and forth for years came together pretty quickly. But the same time it was just one of those things he wanted to he wanted to come over here. And we wanted to take the chance and obviously haven't been a ton of eighteen year old. Leave. If it's not the second. If not the first he's one of the only guys he'll be four on her. Yes. So it was it was a new concept. And you know, we knew we had to be prepared for off court development on court to buy out. How's that process? It's good. You know, he's he's an eighteen year old kid, but a huge cultural matured a ton since he's come over here. And you know, he's I think it was good. Because obviously, there's there can be a culture shock, which we're worried about you come over. And it's it's not just playing basketball for here. It's your first time being in America and integrating into you know, the lifestyle and everything that goes with American special basketball being in America in general. But fortunately, we have a really good group of guys in our locker room and some guys brought them took him under their wing, and he's kind of become like the little brother of team. And so he's had really good mentors. And he's had a really good mental. As far as just, you know, do it, you know, being coach -able doing what what he's told. He needs to do to get better. And then just continuing to mature and start to become a man because obviously, it's a man's sport. And it's it's a profession and everyone else's here making a livelihood. And he's still high school age about all that process. But he's he's been really good. It's been really have any sort of like family support out here is anyone come out with them from Serbia now, so his family's all back, home and Serbia. And he came out here. I'll be Asli. He's got the support of our whole staff, and we treat them like family and. You know, he's got. With technology makes a little easier time back, home and everything. But obviously that's a challenge is not always having. Family members or friends close by he's had a couple of people visit over the course of the year. So he's been able to at least sees faces come in. And again, do you have do you have any coach specifically kind of I wanna say a sign, but who makes a point to really help them out with that transition and that process or whole coaching staff is involved, but definitely our system. It's you know, Anthony ren- Mike Lee, Chris weans they've all worked on various things within skill development. But also teaching them how to become a professional. How to understand what that means things? Probably like a credit card and how to like, I'm guessing there's the whole we're going through his tax returns right now the first time, so there's that element of it. And then there's the encore learning America English terminology, earning professional terminology, all new. But then there's also a lot of basic stuff because he didn't play in college. He hasn't played high level in Europe. So a lot of indoctrinating just into understanding basketball concepts. A lot of what he does very raw still as the language. Very it seems like he's getting better. It's getting better. Obviously the best way to learn new languages to come over. And immerse yourself in the culture. It's not perfect. But it's Volvo, you know, I think when I when I got over here there were certain things like, you know, slang words, or like sarcasm certain things didn't pay you out. And now just being hearing started pick up on those things. So. His English is going to continue to improve. But he can he can have conversations with people that communication hasn't been initiated to that extent. I haven't haven't been any any other games of season was tonight kind of like a break up or forms for him. Or have you seen it kinda steadily building to this type of performance? He was great. He was great tonight. His aggressiveness really kinda stood out. Is that something impressed with an eighteen year old and professional environment. Yeah. I think I think that was really great to see his minutes have have fluctuated detainees. We have a really talented team this year, and we're really deep and so there have been nights where he's gotten his chances. But it hasn't always been consistently playing what twenty seven minutes tonight. It hasn't been a ton of opportunity to do that. He's gotten a little bit opportunity with Davis gang called up to Atlanta, and that sort of opened the door and opposite. He's taking advantage of that. But we also we just we didn't wanna. Earn him out. We know that is the most gains he's ever played and so working him in. And you know, I wanted to address his his body and start working in the weight room, and and just get stronger and get more physically ready because to get thrown into a professional game. There's there's a lot goes into that you have to be physically and mentally ready for it. So we just we knew processed. But obviously, he's he's improved as it's gone on. And his is opportunity in his minutes have gone up as what went into the decision. Not play him in the Jilin showcase that's probably earns incision. But you guys probably consulted about that. It was a combination of a bunch of different stuff on a bunch of factors. I mean, I won't get into it. But. Here were I think look looking back at it. The timing to do it may not have been the best. And we didn't really to be honest. We didn't anticipate the backlash that we got might have probably would have even done differently and knocks out Amato's games. If you knew that because we didn't intended send anyone or anything. But because obviously when you don't play someone that's going to be like people are gonna soom things. Do you feel like some of sumptious, maybe workfare weren't accurate or I mean, I wouldn't say that that this wasn't the only reason, but we did it was very good time in the schedule to give him a little bit of a break where he had gotten to point. I'm trying to think how many games he had played. But he had already. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was late December. So he had already played at that point which was to g lead early season had already played more games than he had played in his his previously. And that was the league that just travelled by bus. And so here ever done the travel all that he had been feeling a little worn down. And so that was one reason one reason was obviously could have been the right thing to do or could have been the wrong thing to do. But we had a lot of guys and that was not eligible and a lot of guys we're trying to show too. So maybe it wasn't the best thing to do. Maybe it was. But it just seemed like at that juncture that schedule, you know, the decision we felt was the best. It's always a learning experience for you guys. I mean like you said it was learning experience to figure out just the timing of of what we should do. But the whole year we've been trying to make sure that we're smart about the approach within Saddam can build and not break down. And I think you feel good about where he's at physically and mentally emotion. Everything right now. So I guess from that standpoint node Ailey grads. Do you hope that this is kind of a trend trail-blazing type situation where the kind of opened the doors for other guys his situation to pursue? This is not pretend. I think. It was good. It's good to see that. You know, obviously every every eighteen year old is going to be in a different situation based on. What their background is what coaching? They had how how mature they are how how badly they want it. But and this is obviously just the fact alone that he could come into the league and not embarrass himself and look place. Let alone productive as he has been for. That's great in saying the message that this can be a good path. It can't be something that that guys do and and there can be can be professional path towards maturing developing on and off the court threw the G league. It's not going to be everyone never will be. But it can't be for for people. The right physical make up the right mindset going into it. And I think for Alan you could ask him. But I think he's really happy with the choice. He may think you know it. It was a good start to his professional career. So I'll say winning for songs like sixteen seventeen his eighteen hour. Yeah. Remember when you went out trying to remember when I was there. He might have been sixteen six death. Okay. And what were your thoughts? When you I saw was it like, this guy has potential or. Yeah. I mean, I won't get into too. Yeah. But obvious guy who could enough enough that. Yeah. Like a brat smoggy Santa Cruz Aaron miles who is in the second season Santa Cruz as head coach has overseen the young Serbians development on a day-to-day basis opened our conversation by asking him, how smile has handled his first season not only of high level professional basketball. But in America. Obviously huge transition moving to a different country by himself. Eighteen years old house the whole process. We've been amazing these women. No when we have when we got talented. Well how much? Building seeing a lot of talent, you know. See them just groping confidence. He's always been conflict by early on realize. He's. Older town. Kim was saying that he doesn't have any family that moved out here with him. How coaching staff help bluffing transition? We first of all I suggest to players David brace, really. Little brother. Call we with my talk a little. They called you where you living for you know, we gotta go eat knowing. Statesman, having Bryce him from volving, everything everything, you know, looking out for. Great. And this is obviously a new a new new thing for the G league. How's it been a learning curve for you guys this, you know, you've never had to necessarily have a guy from overseas? Eighteen years old in the situation. How's it? How's it been a process? This is good. You know, it's really good for us. You. Another talking about doing what they call it. Have some nice. Issue is only a little different this kid's coming from overseas. Happy. Eating having expectations cable. He's he's a humble. Wants to give that wasn't coast shake. Appreciate that type attitude. He was saying that the first few weeks concept because English obviously, it was wasn't great. So that's the funny thing there in the players say to. He act like he didn't understand you guys. Call pilot. Yeah. Yeah. Supposed to catch and taste scream. Catching dried you swing? I don't understand. Yes. You do understand make let your chicken. And everything. Look at. But have you been pressed by how much is English ground? It seemed like these conversational this. Yeah. Yeah. He's. He's. Guys have done a great job. You know, all this morning on everything. But I is better. And he got can't say helping him with his taxes, and you're like pretty much helping him through every every step of the way, obviously doing it. But your system. Anthony greenhouse, you know, great job with. He does a lot with staff whatever he needs help done. His. Whatever. I have to say this is my first game seeing you guys. So this kind of a break-up or form it's for him. Or is it kind of been building to this before? Know what I kid eighteen zone you'd be high school senior. Yeah. I. He's not even college. So imagine that. Eleven MBA. But. Is a long season. You know, we plan to work on a commodity fifty gangs. If the game is. Four or five months so obser- by of his minutes up day. Early on in the season that he had twenty plus points and things like that ladies conference, Mike. He got a little tired. Point. What were you? What went into the decision to not play him in the showcase? Like, I say he was a little higher. Yeah. How many games did you play in his league? You know, not a lot. Yeah. He was no tire. You know? So that was a big reason. These recitation days. We surprised by like the blowback you guys got from. Listen to. Doing the job. Because he's not about the key. He was another time in the year when he was liking body was a little tired aggressively. You know? We always about that. You know, like, I say see high-security pity. Back. So they needed. Has been one of the more for filling rewarding experiences you've advocacy Kate. Like this come come through and grow and as much as he has just a short time. Obviously. So for me, so that no, but just being able to feel part of -opoly. Dessus special. Will. Bravest man. The to have opted coach him with you have been great. Jay. Smoggy who's only been stateside for five months. Still getting a grasp on the English language his conversation on this point. It was nice enough to answer a few of my questions. I started by asking him. What he thought about is performance against Kellyanne tech. I just like making. Back to the game. I'm. Very good Nick together, we the helical Blair again. Those by his EQ. Really good tonight. How's your transition to America in this league? Ben so far on the players really good to me letting my name. Doing something show. Running really nice to how'd you even think of how'd you find out about the G league? And this is an opportunity. This is the first year of something we the nearest come on. I'm gonna miss the chance. Get drafted. And I got lucky on here. How is this different than the league you're in in Serbia because third league of Serbia? Yeah. Yeah. For the big for my hedge bet. Yeah. How's how's the transition with English and all that been throughout this? You can feel secure hug because. Players. Early. Offense defines stuff now is for the how cultures helped with that whole process there wing slow bushman to learn something to be I'm now kids everyday like back. For me to thanks. Ona think Alan smoggy for chatting with me for this piece. Iva feeling who have plenty of more interviews in coming years. I also wanna thank kit lak-, Aaron miles. I always enjoy stopping by Santa Cruz and catching up with them. Where's court is part of the San Francisco Chronicle podcast network. Odder Cooper's editor in chief be like this show. We'd love it. If you'd subscribe to wherever you get your podcasts. And if you've got a minute to give us quick review the else's build our audience can keep growing fall me on Twitter at Khan underscore Krahn and Email me at sea Laterna at SF chronicle dot com. Support warriors off court and a lotta great journals with subscription to the San Francisco Chronicle their print in digital additions. Find out more at SF, chronicle dot com slash subscribe.
Tuesday 30 April
"You're listening to the briefing first broadcast on the thirtieth of April two thousand and nineteen on monocle twenty four. Halo to welcome to the briefing coming to you live from studio one here is Midori house in London. I am Marcus hip pain coming up on today's broke drama. I think he wants to be able to discharge the responsibilities of being emperor while he is in good health, and he feels that failing palace the would prevent that. And that is why he wanted to stand down Emperor Akihito has become the first Japanese monarch to abdicate in more than two hundred years relaxed wars is means for the country also head Serbia and Kosovo are attempting to resolve their long-standing differences at high-level talks in Germany, can they finally bury the hatchet? Plus, we'll review the day's newspaper front pages and ask whether there is ever a place for political boycotts at the Eurovision song contest. All that's right here on the briefing with me, Marcus, Bent. Japanese Emperor Akihito has declared his abdication after more than thirty years on the throne. Each makes him the first member of the country's Royal family to stand down in more than two hundred years. Here is Monaco so Tokyo bureau chief and Wilson on how the historic day is being received in Japan. I think there's a lot of sympathy for him to be honest. I mean, the announcement ready came out in two thousand sixteen and he pretty much all to be allowed to abdicate. And I think those losses sympathy in the public among the public and the law was changed to allow him to step down. And he is a rather popular figure. So there was no ill will, of course, an application presented its own sort of challenges because it was something so new and modern Japan, but I think people feel he done his service, and it was time to let him retire. Valuables. Furano Wilson speaking to the globalist a little earlier on. Let's get more on Emperor Akihito subjugation ceremony with John Nielsen, Royce, who is a senior lecturer in modern Japan. At Cambridge University. Welcome to the studio, John. So it's been a historic day in Japan today. Could you I tried to explain how significant Emperor Akihito's application is for the country. But it's very significant as your correspondent was pointing at near the last time. This happened was about two hundred years ago, and therefore when he did announce in two thousand and sixteen his decision for reasons of ill health to step down while the public was broadly sympathetic to this idea there were conservative politicians conservative intellectuals who I think were made nervous by this idea because the emperor, of course is not just an individual. But it's an institution and for many on the right? The question of Japan's historical and cultural traditions is really important. So anything that deviates from that? That represents a change was something that I think made them rather nervous the government. I think an Akito himself has navigated this really carefully insensitively. And I. Think we've seen in the ceremony today a very incense quite modest ceremony in which the emperor has a real ticky lated his commitment to peace one of the things that really makes him such an important figure. He represents postwar Japan and postwar Japan's commitment to move away from its difficult past of conflict in the Pacific war, his father hitter ITO, of course, had served both in the pre in the postwar period. So Akita was the first man to occupy that role who is unambiguously noticed societas with those controversial past memories. But of course, because he represents the institution for those people who feel the past is still important in needs to be reflected in contemporary life trend that we've seen in other countries. Wendell Stelter is become very important. It's still still attention about the both of the emperor general Kennedy. Tell us more about today ceremony. What exactly happened there two things one? He made an official an answer. Moment and before doing that the three insignia the symbols if you like of monarchic power of the throne were not directly passed on by him to his son not a heater. He will succeed tomorrow, but were essentially given up and therefore in a very symbolic way. He's renouncing his authority. He will become I understand along with his wife. Michiko the empress emperor emeritus and will lose any formal role. No ceremonial role will effectively go into private retirement with his wife. The prime minister made a statement beforehand. This took place, of course, the abdication itself in the imperial palace. So both the location and the way in which it was managed low key. But at the same time full of this historical and cultural significance as you mentioned already grown. Bring us narrow his. Will ascent of a phone tomorrow? How much will now change in Japan? What do you expect from the new imperial era? Courtray wa well, I think in terms of not a heat though, I think we'll see a lot of continuity. The the fact that we've had two years in which to get ready for this transition. The fact that not a veto by all accounts is a very cosmopolitan man educated in the United Kingdom spent two years doing graduate work at Oxford knows the world, but also is acutely aware of the significance of the institution that he will be representing. When it comes to the issue of the new era Ray wa. Change of era is an opportunity for any government in Japan to signal a new direction for the country. And I think the decision to pick the two Chinese idea grams Ray, and wha realistic translated as auspice piece or or specious hominy is an effort by the government to signal that it wants to -bility it wants to an optimistic vision that is forward-looking. And so I think they will be a hope on the part of of the government certainly that the new emperor will reflect that in his modest demeanor in his noncontroversial character, and he's well trained if you like well experienced in the role of being a member of this very important family to play that role. There are question marks over what his wife will do Moscow who was a former diplomat. He has been under a lot of stress. But I think the expectation is things will happen. We'll move smoothly from. One era to the second. We are expecting stability and optimism a forward-looking Japan. But what does the future look like forty pounds, Royal family? The big question, Mark. Of course, the people have been stretching the heads over is imperial succession for the next next emperor. If you like the the laws of succession in Japan, a very strict patrilineal and only sons can ascend to the throne through the patrilineal line, the current cram print soon to be emperor from tomorrow Naruhito has a daughter, but has no son, his younger brother does have a son. So in some ways, there isn't an immediate crisis. But there is a broader issue about the legitimacy of focusing on men at the expense of women. And of course, Mr. Ave has talked very positively about women all makes about gender equality. This is a country with a huge demographic problem. And I think the perception that women are being shortchanged and that this is an overly traditional approach to think about succession as being a source of. Turn to particularly many people who have progressives in Japan who would like to see a more. A modern approach to the idea of succession, but for the conservatives this is an anthem ah. They don't want to move in that direction. That's worse. John Nielsen, right. Thank you very much for joining us here in the briefing. It is twelve nine here in London. Let's continue with the latest business news. I'm joined by Sebastian select from Bloomberg Sebastian US negotiators have landed in Beijing for another round of traits. Hawks get to tell us more. That's right. This is part of a two day trip. So next week you've got vice premier Liu going to Washington from China. This time is lighthizer Mnuchin heading to Beijing fat that they're ready. They saying that they hope to make substantial progress this time both sides, of course, eager to find a deal. But senior Trump administration officials warning Bloomberg that there is a chance the president could walk away from the table if he's not satisfied, by the way things ago said there is a certain level of tension around these talk significant issues still not resolved, although minutiae and saying that the enforcement mechanisms are close to done. This was something that was widely talked about last time because as one thing agreeing on a course of action as another thing. Try to police it and trying to ensure that both sides go through with it. And this, of course comes across the the backdrop of week data. We had out of China today manufacturing growth slowing in April. You had industrial production tumbling in South Korea and Japan GDP slowing a little bit entire Juan says not looking good across the region as these two sides sit down and hopefully hammer something out then looking at other headlines. Brexit is pushing UK holidaymakers further afield the summer. Yeah. Thomas Cook the holiday group coming out with a report saying almost half of all the package holidays. They've sold utter locations outside the euro zone. So outside the area where the euro is used as the currency. It was thirty eight percent last year. So it's not start from then this amid anxiety ever travel arrangements after Brexit. Of course, the original date was April. It was March twenty ninth. So that was something that people will keeping in mind when they were booking that holidays and the weak pound as well compared to the year so Turkey has now overtaken Greece to come the second most popular destinations at twenty. Seven percent increase as lira is down more than twenty five percent versus the pound. So it makes it much more attractive Spain still that number one. I was intrigued by number four, which is the US. So after Turkey Spain and Greece we're heading across the Atlantic. We're leaving Europe altogether taking haul flights another one that sticks out though is to Nisell which is getting increasingly popular. If you offer a bit of sun family bookings of the country up one hundred and fifty nine percent year on year. And it's not just Thomas Kirk who's talking about this this general anxiety Virgin Atlantic jet to among the airlines that have warned that Brexit is weighing on ticket sales EasyJet also giving a cautious outlook in a trading update this month, a very interesting in doing so there, thank you very much. That was Bloomberg's Sebastian Celik. You are listening to the briefing monocle twenty four here is what else is making news today. The US deputy attorney Rosenstein has denounced he's resting nation. He oversaw the special counsel inquiry into Donald Trump's campaign and Russia bus often had a fraud working relationship with the US President Mr Rosen Stein's resignation letter paid tribute to Trump's Kutaisi and Huma Xi Jinping said that young people in China shoot love their country and dedicate themselves to the communist party, the Chinese premier also warned there was no place for those who ignored the country's needs. It's comes ahead of the thirtieth anniversary of protests in Tiananmen Square. And finally, the monocle minute takes a closer look at Indonesia's decision to move the country's capital. Our editor Andrew tuck argues, that's Jakarta, societies are running away from their responsibilities and that they need to face up to the city's urban challenges for more hits to Monaco. Dot com forward slash Maine. It this is the briefing article twenty four. The European Union has spent much of the past decade trying to find a solution to the long running dispute between Serbia and Kosovo. And no longer land imminent McColl are getting involved. Personally, they hosted a dinner in Berlin last night for the leaders off countries from the western Balkans. The main aim was to get Serbia and Kosovo talking again. But it doesn't look good. Both Bill rates and Pristina say that not much has changed. Let's go live to our Baucus correspondents guide Lorna guy. Welcome to the program. So if mccraw and Merckel arguing involved, you would have thought something fairly significant was on the cards. Why are they dipping their or sin? You know? I'd have thought if you were looking at this, and you weren't paying particular attention on a day-to-day basis you'd have thought, hey Denham. Berlin, Merckel Macron is something really big on the called. Sarah's Serbia perhaps even going to say it'll recognize Kossovo to end this dispute and all the rest of it. But for those of us who do follow this day in and day out. I got to say we weren't taking this dinner as a particularly enormous milestone. And so turns out to be I mean, the might have been some delicacies for the the leaders to enjoy but does not a lot. That's that's really come out of it, the US as you've said has invested an awful lot of diplomatic capital in getting pushed and Belgrade talking. The Brussels talks that are going on between Belgrade and Pristina for many years now that been one of the signatures of the EU as really as a as a as a diplomatic organization, and we have had an agreement in twenty thirteen which was supposed to bring about the normalization of relations between the two a but both sides of sad. Will you haven't lived up to the other that they haven't lived up to their side of the agreement? We've slipped back in. To this position. Now where loggerheads, and I think that Merkel's Macron really just desperately trying to reboot the process and the big issue at the moment is a one hundred percent tariff that goes verse imposed on imports from Serbia and both Serbia and the overpaying union say that any dialogue between Pristina and Belgrade simply can't resume as long as that tariff is in place, and it was brought in last November as as a result of Serbia blocking Kosovo's application to join into Paul. So that was the retaliation for that at now, it does altogether against the spirit of the Brussels agreement. It also violates the Central European Free trade agreement of which both Kosovo and Serbia part. And that's meant help them to get on the EU membership path. But when I spoke to Kosovo's prime minister removed how deny last month, he told me the tariff was a legitimate tool to get what Pristina really wants comprehensive agreement on recognition between Serbian Corso, the rare. The way out. It's not a assist in Kosovo the tariffs. They out insisting on a contract between two nations that would resolve not only the dispute on the latest decision of Kosovo's government the types. But every other dispute between two nations at the our neighbors. Yes, we are ready to stand for our south forever vase. We have no choice. No alternative knots despite pressure from Washington or Brussels or the individual respect this pressure vivo, comet we believe this. We believe this. Important the interest for our region. However varies the solution. It's possible to crash course. Oh, it's a small nation. But is that the result is that this solution? No, the only. Out of very are. As is responsible approach of both nations for an agreement. We don't see that from Serbia. And the tariff Marcus does remain in place after this dinner. Nothing's changed. The napkins have been dabbed on chocolate mouths and the still one hundred percent tariff in place. So what do you think? Is there a way forward then? Well, right now, we are in complete snarf rarely harridan. I wouldn't budge. He's seen this policy of the tariff is being very successful domestically. You talk to people in Pristina, and they say, you know, what role the light the fact that how to deny is standing up for as not just against Serbia. But against the European Union were not caving to pressure from the European Union to withdraw this ornate from the United States Serbia, obviously can't budge while the tariff is in place, and I think what it'll take to to clear this particular blockage and the tariff is really big issue here because the talks on resume without being lifted. I think everybody's made a perfectly clear what it's gonna take elections in Kosovo, and that's going to pitch prime minister how to deny against president Hashem thatch, e they're the two most powerful men in Kosovo at the moment. There's an uneasy truce between the two elections could see one side or the other. Really take charge of Kossovo. And then we'll see what the way forward is vote. You expect to happen next. I think frankly, we could be heading for elections in Kosovo. That's the main thing which which everybody is going to be looking out for the thing is though the fact that it's been domestically successful for Mr. how to deny lens me to leads me to think that maybe the elections of further off the might afford because Mr. Thatcher wouldn't want to go into elections. Warmest to deny is enjoying domestic boost. So they really are quite stuck. And it seems that Kosovo's resistant to the pressure from its longtime international sponsors the union and the United States Serbia's actually in some ways able to just sit back and say will the repeal union says this tariff has to be lifted. What else can we do? We're playing nicely your not seven in a funny way Pristina's actually, making Belgrade look quite good on this particular issue. Monaco's Balkans correspond to go to law there. Thank you very much for joining us here in the briefing. It's twenty-nine. If you are listening in Tokyo forty and ninety enough and twelve nineteen here in London and seven thousand nine AM in Toronto we continue with some of the day's newspapers I'm joined in the studio by our own colored Arabella welcome to the program and good afternoon. Good afternoon. Marquez shall we start to the international dishes of the New York Times as good a story here about Guantanamo quite interesting actually about Guantanamo Bay? And how the Pentagon now is planning for terrorism suspects are still held in this facility to grow old here. So bear with me, it is indeed the Pentagon bracing for inmate hospice care, we know that the Obama administration's efforts to close the prison failed and they've been blocked by congress and by the Trump administration, and the Trump administration indicated that. Commanders shoot draw plans to keep the detention center going for at least another twenty five years so up to twenty forty three that means that the oldest prisoner if he's still alive by then will be ninety two year old ninety two years old which is going to pose its own challenges to so now, they're debating how do we add we'll chair ramps to to Guantanamo? Because the closest major United States military hospital is in Jacksonville and Florida which is still a far far away. But because of the Guantanamo's law of war, the military is forbidden to take any detainees and inmates to the United States territory. So they need to prepare the facility to basically how to make it a nursing home eventually for all the prisoners that will eventually grow old. It's very complicated a very confusing situation. Yeah. It's like, it's very complicated. Very confusing quite ironic that they're now in this position when moving onto your second pick for today that which newspaper Daily Telegraph here in London now this is a story picking up on a piece in lifter guy, hold the French newspaper yesterday. And it is about this open letter that over thousand international architects and architectural experts and academics wrote in the finger hole yesterday. Day asking the French government to allow more time for the restoration of not damn imminent. Mccraw has been has been quite as ident. Yes. About the holding his joined the promise that it will be ready in five years. So chrome made that pledge of five years and immediately after that announcement a lot of people were saying, well, this is for political reasons because they want his government wants not to be restored back to its former self or from glory by the time of the twenty twenty four paras Olympics in the letter. They right. We know that the political calendar requires quick action. We know how much at its figure not affect the image of France. But the challenge of these works goes far beyond political terms of office beyond generations, and will be judged, and we will be judged on how he responds the fears that all these architects and academics pointed out is that you take the risk of getting people that are. Not actually the best for the job. But actually the ones that can do it quickly. And obviously how not to them will be rebuilt is something that will last generations and needs to be pondered needs to be something that we do that has the proper goes through the proper checks and balances. So it's just interesting to see this amount of people, and this is a group of international experts, not just French from UK from United States and beyond. An I'm curious to see how the government will respond is also very interesting how how big a difference. There actually is between. What's manure macro wants to achieve an award experts or saying how long the work would realistically take. Yes. And they still assessing the damage, so it's quite difficult to even say at this point how long the work will take and one of the things they point out in. That letter is at the criticizes will the launch of the international competition to rebuild aspire oversee it is good because you get different proposals. And you can. Can go through them and see which one would fit the restoration process better. But as they found out it also allows for all sorts of architects to apply for it because they are trying to become famous because if you are the architect behind the new spire of Notre dam you have your name set for life in the architecture circa circles. So it'll be interesting to see how it develops just formally store from the guardian today now we've seen similar things with Amazon, but now the supermarket chain here in the UK centuries has launched the UK's I till free grocery store. So basically, you don't need to go to to pay at the end. You just how do three or phone after Matic ly- the same way we saw the Amazon go shops in the US. Now, this is the first trial by centuries in Holborn here in London you use the smart shop app on your phone to scan the IT. As you put them in your basket. And as you are about to leave the store the phone will detect whether you've paid or not what do you think about this whole thing experience when trying to use self service tools? There's always something going wrong than you still always still need a staff and rescue buttons. And reset the whole fit in this case, you won't go to the till just literally put this scan the items put them in your bag, and then the phone automatically before you leave says, you wanna prefer items check, and you go. I'm quite skeptical about it. This is a trial. And the reason why the pick this specific shop for three months trial is because all ready eighty percent of the transactions are cashless. Let's see what this means. I think having the social interaction between customer and employee is still very important to remember that for some customers specially older customers that might be one of the few social interactions. They have a day. So it's important to keep that hopefully, it won't become a trend. Exactly. Thank you. That was one. The rebelo joining us here on the briefing. And then finally on today's program. Best was of course, the sound of last year's Eurovision song. Contest winner. Neta victory means that Israel will host this year's competition. And she's been speaking out about the decision to hold the song fest in her homeland. Let's get more on this with Monaco sculpture, correspondent dog who will be sending next month sophisticated in Delaware. So Phan under welcome to Midori. How studio one what has never set? Well, netter basically, she just had that, you know, some people want to boycott the revisions on contests this year because it's going to be knee, Israel, and the way Israel twits Palestinians. But then netter said, you know, that this boycott would only spread darkness instead of bringing solutions. And she hasn't been the only one that's being a with other artists. Like, Stephen Fry Mina remove each saying this movement is an affront to both Palestinians and Israel and saying because you revision officiant in some ways is not a political event. As well. How strong the voice is being calling for the contest to be moved to another country over Israel's treatment of Palestinians. Well, of course, as the other side is the boycott divestment and sanctions movement, which was again lot of artists like Roger waters Vivienne. Westwood also signed saying that actually should ROY called your vision this year, even code some of the TV networks like the BBC here in the U K saying that they shouldn't air in the event. So yeah, it is quite conflicting like any coach revenge. The happens in Israel. We see that with concerts. I remember the singer Leonard the ratio had a few issues there because she performed in the country people criticize her. It is very controversial. Because you know, like, clearly there's something going on, you know, mistreatment of Palestinians. But then at the same time, there's a lot of people in Israel that also disagrees with what an attorney who wants to do and also very seriously one high profile stores going and coming to perform at the Eurovision song contests as well. Madonna is going there as well. We should be in also creating more criticism about this whole this whole thing. What do you expect from under what will happen onstage? You get these artists. Go there. Do you think they're going to be using their voice to actually criticize water the Israeli government is doing I wonder, but I don't think it's because the Israeli government with forbidden to do it. I wonder because the EU they have strict rules about being political stage, for example, back in two thousand nine in Georgia had an entry and the song was called was a disco song. Are we don't want to put in at? And then of course, there was a kind of mentioning Vladimir Putin in. Away. And then the song had to be removed from the contest. So yeah, they might, you know, signal say, let's go for peace in love. But I don't know if they can really kind of name call Netanyahu or anything else. Always. There was a bit of controversy before when prime minister Netanyahu was calling for the event to be organized in Jerusalem that didn't happen that didn't happen. I there's many reasons for that. Because it was considered by many kind of a sacred city, and it would overlap some holy days as well. But if it is Marcus Tel-Aviv is it is kind of the coach will and commercial capital of Israel. So the abuse had they had a much better plan. They were much more organized in terms of securities. Well, so I think that's why the event is going to Tel Aviv instead of Jerusalem this year and just quickly about security Oviously that's going to be a major expense. This is your vision. And there were some disputes between between the Eurovision organisers are knows government about who is going to be painful for that very much. So I think these rally government the, you know, they didn't pay exam. What they said they would. So I think the whole Eurovision Z is going to be quite expensive. That's why tickets to see the show actually from the is going to be my six times zero think it's it's it's the most expensive I've ever paid for ticket. Well, it can cost like the cheapest one around two hundred pounds or something like that. And it can go much much higher. This going to be your six Eurovision. You're going to be attending. Give me just quickly. Your professional tips are the funniest aspects of the whole experience what you should not miss except except for the finale, I think if you're a real fan, you have to go for the whole week because that's where you know, the crazy things happens and include like now in including very conceal the crazy act and they walk around town. And there's usually revision village the euro clubs and sometimes it can talk to the artist. So it's really kind of friendly atmosphere, and from my experience, you see the same people every year, you know, there's those kind of cr-. Revision fans over you have your Eurovision friends waiting for you in Tel Aviv stamps. On our thank you very much. And that's all for this dish in of the briefing. It was produced by Reese James and researched by joining fan, ROY Goode. Ric are a student manager was Christie Evans. The briefing is back tomorrow at the same time. Do join Juliette foster for today's edition of Midori house lives AC and hundred in London thirteen hundred in New York. I am Marcus hippie. Thanks for listening and goodbye.
Monday 7 September
"You're listening to the briefing first broadcast on the seventh of September two, thousand and twenty on Monocle Twenty-four. Hello and welcome to the briefing coming to you live from studio one here Midori House in London I'm Andrew Miller coming up on today's program you Prime Minister Boris Johnson's Brexit deal appears not to be as oven ready as advertised where a surprised as you a Albo CNN's correspondent guide alone will be joining us with the big stories on his feet later. In the show hello I am motorcycles has inky correspondent better of I will be telling you how the Helsinki Design Week is going ahead despite numerous similar events having been canceled around the world because of the pandemic plus weekly reminder that contrary to outward appearances not absolutely everything is completely terrible. That's all coming up right here on the briefing on Monocle Twenty Pool. And Welcome to today's edition of the briefing with me and Ramallah at the beginning of two, thousand and twenty it was widely assumed the years news agenda in the UK would be dominated by the rancorous torturous divisive and tedious subject of Brexit. Those were the days happily for those of us who had grown weirdly nostalgic for it. What one thing another brexit is. Self. Evidently back in the headlines as the UK's final departure looms on December thirty first British ministers. Now, apparently plan to try rewriting the EU withdrawal agreement, they agreed last year you may recall this being presented at the time as the ticket to the sunlit our plans and so forth. Well, joining me with more on. This is the political journalist and author Terry Stephanie. Terry, as far as it's possible to boil it down. What is the big idea here? It's Boiling down I suppose the big idea is that a Britain the UK is. Having, more talks with the e this week. At the same time, there's what's called the UK Internal Market Bill, which is going to go before parliament this week. Now that parliament is back and it's due to be published, and we're told that this bill might according to the first reports of this in the Financial Times, eliminate the legal force of parts of the withdrawal agreement I-. Overriding the treaty that has been signed and ratified by everybody a regarding what's going to happen to do with Northern Ireland and its future relationship, and this is being greeted with a fair deal of horror because it seems to suggest that before any deal is donald before no deal happens Britain may actually go back on something that everybody has already signed an agreed to. The difficulty here a difficulty here as I understand it is that you want sowing the treaty you can't really on sign it can you? Know you can't. The reaction to this again, this is this is something that might happen. I suppose. One of the questions is whether this is all part of the UK government talking its own book ahead of future, Negotiations Boris. Johnson saying that we must have definitely have an agreement by the fifteenth of October and being innocent blustering and talking about prospering mightily in the future. But yeah. An international treaty is international law and the European Commission, is being quite calmly so far in a on the surface at least saying. I trust that Britain will continue to abide by this and we trust that they will implement the withdrawal agreement. Michelle Bonnier saying that everything that has been signed must be respected but yes, international law. That was signed into law by this parliament after the election certainly still stands what you're alluding to. There is a statement made in the last hour. So by US Levonne, delay in the president of the EU Commission very thinly veiled faint subtext of irritation. Do you get the sense that the UK's government might be overestimating the degree to which the EU is still terrifically interested in any of this? I think you know they the usual has to be interested in it. I think. It's possibly a there ever estimating the degree to which the EU doesn't see these tactics coming because there has been quite a lot of talk over the last week about the likelihood of their being a no deal agreement and. British negotiators really saying you know we'll be we'll be fine with the no deal. Don't worry about this. You know we we can. We'll. We'll go ahead and do this and I think there's an element of Brussels sitting back and looking at it and saying, okay, you go. Ahead you go. Do what you want to do. It's. It's sort of slightly reminds me of apparent with a recalcitrant trial and we trust the to do the right thing and you know we understand that you really want to do the right thing. Don't you and just letting them in a slightly letting them walking towards towards. Well on the subject of the UK doing the right thing eventually over we are, of course, fast running out of eventually to recap those dates December thirty. First, the UK's transition period is over October. Fifteenth is when Boris Johnson says a deal needs to be done by if you just think about this, not so much as an analyst. e you affairs but just thinking about it as a British political journalist doesn't not strike you that the likelihood is if you judge the career in character of Boris Johnson that he will at the last minute take whatever's the easiest way out and claim a great triumph because that's pretty much what he's always done. Yes I. Mean Boris Johnson has always been as we know particularly even his decisions on which side to support in the referendum he's looked at both the options had a back pocket version of both things, and then done something at the last minute I mean he? No, he's he's a journalist by training. This is how we work. He come come up to do things at the last minute. The difficulty is there are lots of things that can't be done at the last minute not least signing a huge international agreement, not least getting UK borders ready for the for the transition, getting all the customs officials that you need Also the economic impact of this. There have been statements from retailers recently saying that you do realize that if there's no deal agreement, we will have tariffs that will effectively increase the price of food and You know. We don't know what state the economy is going to be in coming out of Cova, but we can imagine that it's not going to be very good and one of the questions is despite Boris Johnson's talk about Britain prospering mightily, how much more of a shock can the UK economy standard? It's those kind of questions not least as well. The relationship with Northern Ireland with the rest of Ireland the relationship with Scotland the keep coming back to bite people and people keep warning about it but on the other hand, the government sort. Of trying to appeal to its own backbenchers I suppose, and also saying look we can. We'll be able to do more in terms of government investment state aid without the telling us what to do, and we will be able to make our own rules as they keep saying and government ministers today suggesting that that could be a price worth paying just on the subject they're finally of the actual practical preparations. This is what strikes me. It'd be interested in in your view on this might actually end up governing what the government ends up deciding because. This was raised last week, and we talked about this on the program by associations of holy is in freight companies just basically making the point that the account be no deal brexit because the infrastructure and the personnel and all the other stuff necessary to deal with it simply does not exist and sure as heck isn't going to be conjured into being in the next two and a half months. No? I mean I was in Kent last week where people were talking about this, there's a site that local people had expected was going to be used for an Amazon Amazon warehouse that they now think is likely to be used for a customs checkpost and there's there's not really anything there the state and yes, you know people saying that training the customs officials let alone the the software, the hardware whatever else you need in place is going to take more time than we have. But you know things have been cobbled together. If you look at how we respond to the coronavirus crisis in the last few months, and perhaps there's an expectation that these kinds of things can somehow be becomes it up but it's not going to be easy and come January. We may see the downside of that terrorist. Asked me. Thanks as always you're listening to the briefing here is yelling Goffin with the days of the headlines. Thanks Andrew India has overtaken Brazil as the country's second worst hit by covid nineteen it now has over four point two million confirmed cases of the virus. The United States remains the worst affected country with over six million cases. It's been reported that the UK's planning new legislation that will override key parts of the brexit withdrawal agreements risking the collapse of trade negotiations with Brussels sections of the Internal Market Bill due to be published. This Wednesday are expected to eliminate the legal force of parts of the withdrawal agreements in areas, including state aid, and Northern Ireland Customs. Tokyo Olympics will go ahead with over that grown virus according to the vice presidents of the International. Olympic. Committee John Goats has confirmed will begin on the twenty third of July next year, Tokyo Olympics were originally scheduled to start in July twenty twenty. Ends monocle minutes reports on the inauguration of the fifteen kilometre tunnel in the Swiss canton of Ticino, which will drastically shorten travel times from Zurich to Milan for more heads to Monaco com slash minutes. Those are today's headlines back to you Andrew. Thanks you're listening to the briefing on monocle twenty four. It's time now for one of our periodic round ups of what is making news in the Balkans joining me to assist in this endeavor is monocle twenty four Balkans, correspondent. Guide. DELAUNAY going first of all this I mean diplomatic tiffs, spats etcetera within and without the Balkans and not that unusual. But the participants in this one hour Serbia versus Russia. Indeed Serbia against Russia that doesn't usually happen unless it's a friendly at football but this time Serbia's president. Alexander. Church. Has Accused officials in Moscow of Primitivism and vulgarity in the way in which they referred to him after a meeting at the White House on Friday and this is all to do with the the spokesperson of Russia's Foreign Ministry are looking at one of these pictures and posting a funny on twitter comparing Alexandrovich sitting a table for signing documented in the White House with his in a man spreading kind of position Andrew and On the other side, this was juxtaposed in the tweet with a picture of Sharon stone in basic instinct with the legs demurely crossed and the suggestion was that mister should've taken the the Sharon stone approach went down like the Cup of. RANCID rockier would sow in Belgrade. Is there any kind of Is there anything actually underpinning? This is this just the Russian Foreign Ministry making a cheap joke or other soins ear of a wide to rift. I wonder it would thing which was quite interesting. We had this meeting in in the White House on Friday, which involve President vote-rich Kosovo's Prime Minister Abdullah Haughty and it was it was Chad by rich Grennell who's trump's envoy on the western Balkans, and then of course, at the end trump came in himself declared world peace and walked out again. Now, most of watch these sorts of things were saying, well, there wasn't a. Lot of new stuff in there between Serbia and Kosovo. Nobody was recognizing anybody else. We weren't really any further down the road. Then we'd been at any other point as since Kosovo unilaterally declared independence in twenty eight but the more interesting things water was doing with Serbia's relations with with some of its allies. So there was this thing in there that it was signing up to the United States Clean Network program which was eliminating. While away on their by the Chinese state, which is being giving Serbia lot of money in recent times and was the recognition of Sorry. The moving of the embassy of of of Serbia from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, which Mr Vici seemed a little surprised about one of his announced at the signing. So maybe the more shifts there than the were in anything between Kosovo and Serbia, and that might have made Moscow a little more spiky `social media response because do you believe in accidents when it comes to these things under? It I'm always a big fan of balls up over conspiracy. But yes, there there's probably some sort of subtext looking here and I'm trying to think of a seamless link from that to the next item but there isn't one because the next thing you want to discuss is a lot of people in Slovenia writing silly barks up a big hill. You see could have said something about the wheels coming off there. If you want the job done right call a professional but no, let's let's let's talk about this by race. Please explain the premise i. While the premise I is the two premises for this. Rarely I lay anybody who follows a professional sport maeve notice that Slovenian's dominating the Tour de France this year at the hot favourite to win the whole Shebang is premature rogue. Let you just took the Yellow Jersey yesterday and he's hot hot favourite to where it all the way into Paris meanwhile other Slovenian riders doing very well in that etc it's a sensation but how would they cut the mustard on one thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, nine, thousand, nine, hundred Yugoslavia at twenty inch wheeled single geared folding bike while climbing up a similar incline. What do you reckon? It's it sounds to be an awful lot like hard work. And I think it sounds a lot like hard work as well. But that didn't pose off five hundred people who did just yesterday in an annual event called the goarmy pony and it's called the Golden Pony because the the biking question is the Rog. Pony it's kind of the equivalent of the rally twenty which listeners of certain age may remember. Know Gears and the blurb putts at new gears new carbon fiber no surrender. It's thirteen kilometers of riding up the highest road pass in Slovenia the rush pats There's an elevation gain of eight hundred meters which I make to an average gradient of six percent says pro level and not particularly funny on and it was far to people as I say turned out and the winner on the men's side is a very, very, well respected mountain runner on the the winner on the women's side, break her own record half the fourth year in a row despite breaking her handlebar. What we should turn finally to the latest iteration of one of the many perennial disputes between Croatia and Serbia this is the ownership of Nikola Tesla I have had as I'm sure you have possibly even more. So both sides of this argument explained to me in somewhat exhausting detail. In the all in the interests of not being seen to take a side on this, I am going to say just so it's clear that I don't really care one way or the other but people in Serbia and Croatia do and Serbia has staked to further claim. You know the do say sport is war by other means. Something I got and In this case, they're employing the football, Jersey Weapon of choice in Serbia. So this Rather Nath Looking, Puma Jersey has come out it's white it's got blue bands on the shoulders. People complain saying announce Serbia into Scotland and some some white quipped except in. Serbia. Actually qualify for certain international events but then then it was pointed out by. Puma in a press release that no, no no. The inspiration for these blue bits on the sleeves it's Nikola Tesla. These blue bits with squiggly patterns on them represent light and electricity, and so the the battle for the soul of Nikola, Tesla moves onto the football pitch guide. Alani thanks as always for joining us you're listening to the briefing on monocle twenty four. Weighing in almost four hundred pages the MANCO guide cozy homes is packed with everything you need to know about making a great place to live on the book is filled with handsome residences and all the contacts you need to make a home that will last a lifetime and as celebrates the people CNOR homes should be up to cope with kids dogs a few scuff marks to is a book knows a home Tony as good as a It's in and is a book. It takes you through the front doors of everything from mountain hideaways to modernise towels. So because e by Okapi, today, monocle Daca. took. Your back with the briefing on monocle twenty, four Helsinki Design Week as regular listeners will be aware is very much the kind of event we would cover in normal times in these abnormal times. The very fact that something like Helsinki Design Week is even happening is newsworthy over and above whatever it may be exhibiting well, joining me with more on this is Monica Helsinki correspondent Petrie of. Petrie yet, the obvious question I all over the world design and indeed most other events have been canceled or postponed how Helsinki Design Week able to actually put it cell phone. Hi Andrew and I think I spoke with you last week on this very show about Finland's corona virus situation and how relatively a good it is with only a handful of infections and that is that is really the reason for for why the Helsinki Design Week is is. Able to go ahead, last weekend and continuing this week they've had to alter the festival slightly and now it consists of. Large amount of smaller events as opposed to one large event in one space as. Traditionally organized I do have to say also that the main event takes place next weekend. At the recently restored Helsinki Olympic Stadium which can house up to seventy thousand people. So you know there's there's that. Are there. Any precautions being taken though does look and feel different to usual Helsinki. Design weeks. Yes it it feels different Some of the interesting talks, for example have been moved online so that everybody can participate you don't have to pay. The ticket. To to partake I know. So the main event at the at the Olympic Stadium which I mentioned the fact that it houses ten thousand people there actually only taking one thousand participants at a time. So you know there's quite safe distances between the participants but I me one one major difference of that with Finland's various strict travel restrictions. haven't seen that many international guests attending this year I remember last year is edition There was a very large group of people that came from Japan South Korea, and China. So I haven't seen them this year. Well, let's talk about what's actually in the festival rather than the fact that it's actually happening tool what what is it focusing on this year? Right so obviously, some of the international guests are not present the focus even more than than US League on on highlighting finish producers and especially young finish designers. Of course, Finland is famous for its golden years of of modernism, the likes of Alvarado but there's a there's a, there's a lot of young deciders as well. Festival is highlighting the theme for this year is commitment matters, and that essentially means that things like environmental issues and sustainability are at the heart of the exhibition there's Festival organized a climate. Each is what they call them. They educate the. On how design can play a role in climate change and there's also an exhibition at the finished design museum called soil matters which. I. Suppose it encourages visitors to to kind of contemplate what their relationship based with. Earth. And there's anything really leaping out as a highlight. Yeah I am I mean. I visited some of the. Venues last week it started on Thursday after say a highlight from me personally has been all the different shops that how very nice deals I bought a way too many clothes a for for example, but it's also nice to get to know new designers. There's always a couple of new names that I haven't made before. And this year of course, the the highlight is the fact that the main event is failing Gilad Big Stadium, which has been under renovation full for the past couple of years, and it's now recently reopened, and this is the first kind of major events being organized the Olympic Stadium. So a lot of people went to want to go there and they have dozens of different installations next edition there, and then there's some one interesting event taking place at the Olympic Stadium which is called a night, which is basically a couple of speakers. Talking about different topics and showing photos linked to this topics. It's essentially like like Ted talk interesting. Petrie boats of in. Helsinki, thank you very much for joining us. You're listening to the briefing on Monaco. Twenty. Four. This is the briefing with me under and finally on today's show, our weekly roundup of such news as there is that might not make you want to scream into a pillow. Welcome to the twenty third of these weekly thrashings of the dusty rug of the covid nineteen new cycle with the stick of delusional optimism in the hope of dislodging a few meager crumbs of comfort. The king sourcing good. News in these trying times he's taking what you can get. Consider for example, these last few days as endured. By US President Benito man he is beset if not outright beleaguered by revelations that he denigrated full and troops accused by his former lawyer of having once hired a barrack Obama look alike to yell at and a boat parade convened in his honor on a lake in Texas ended up resembling some Weird Yahoo reenactment of the scuttling of the High Seas Fleet of the German. Imperial. Navy at SCARPA flow in nineteen. Nineteen? But Donald Trump did secure the full throated endorsement of the soil of one influential family knew bin Laden niece of the obvious and a woman who must have quite the time trying to make restaurant reservations told the New York Post that trump's reelection was vital for the future of not only America but Western civilization as a whole to put the value of this insight into some perspective ms Bin Laden turns out to be an adherent of the modern cult of Cunanan the seamlessness of this link. will become apparent imminently because for the second week running good news for those of us who tend toward the belief that it is long time that those in positions of power cease indulging the maniacs at lodge in their publics. You may recall last week in this spot, we asked you to give it up for Assistant Commissioner Luke Cornelius. Victoria police delivering some laconic truths to anti mosque. Ding, bats you know what? It deserves an encore look there are there are any number of grapes out the. and. You know if you just did a google search on. Fog J.. Andy Vexes Anti. look the Tinfoil hat wearing guide. Our laws on will out there in the community and they take every opportunity to leverage the current situation to save the Iran ridiculous nations about side cold sovereign citizens a constitutional issues on about how thought Julius GonNa Kill Your grandkids. It's just crazy. It's fetchy sized. With this was spotted by US presidential hopeful Joe Biden is uncertain but Biden bought a similar energy tabet if a more civil tongue when asked what he thought of the on conspiracy theory and those who believe in it I've been a big supporter of mental health I'd recommend that people believe it may be should take advantage while still exist. In Care Act. It's bizarre. Totally bizarre. And now. Have you guys found that plane load of people in uniforms and weapons and flying around young. Have you found him yet? Is Anybody even from by the way I respect conservative and liberal points of view of the press. And anybody found that playing. What God's name we doing. Look at how makes us look around the world It's mortifying. It's embarrassing and it's dangerous. Biden was speaking in a week that one survey suggested fully fifty six percent of Republican voters believe mostly or partly in Cunanan, a roiling crock of hogwash concocted by online stores and lapped enthusiastically up by the heart of thinking. While, it's objectively bad news that it turns out that there's quite so many of these dunderheads it's good news as Biden clearly realizes for those who derive some consolation from feeling superior to Americans and who doesn't. Here in the UK good news for those us who live in the overlap of the then diagram of people who derive militias amusement from the spectacle of rock musicians pronouncing on subjects about which they know little and people still vaguely fearful of the prospect of the stone roses ever making another album. The former appears to have taken care of the latter Ian Brown stone roses singer, and the singer never really seemed quite the right word. The language is still not entirely adapted to whatever it was. He was doing outed himself as an anti vaccine and anti-massacre which kind of ironic given how much Brown's live performances have done for sales of earplugs. He all week and so forth. Brown was subsequently passive aggressively rebuked by his former stone roses compadres John Squire opening up the most obvious ideological schism in Amen Cuny in rock groups since the smiths at the risk of giving anyone ideas, maybe the two groups could do a package reunion tour after swapping guitarists and it was a red-letter weekend for patient. Fans of one of the very few artists with an even more mercifully delay to rework rate than the stone roses. The annoying late avant-garde is John. Cage. Whose best known work is four minutes thirty, three seconds of silence. It goes something like this. You get the idea. bemusing number of people queued outside sent Bacardi church in Halberstadt on Saturday to hear a single chord change specifically this one. WHO This may help explain why how is not widely regarded as one of Europe's premier stag do destinations. The slight tonal shift was the latest development in the performance of cages posthumous bequest to eternity an organ composition entitled as slow as possible, which began in two thousand and one, and he's due to conclude six hundred and twenty years hence, we who are he and now however a privilege to be living through one of the pieces more UPTEMPO. Stretches. The next cody sheduled for February fifth two thousand and twenty two it is not expected to sound a great deal like this. That is all for this edition of the briefing. It was produced by Marcus Hippie Yolene Goffin as studio manager was Christie Evans the briefing returns at the same time tomorrow midday. London. I'm Andrew Mullet. Thanks for listening.
Inside Europe 12.10.2018
"D w. Inside here. Hello. I'm Keith Walker in Bonn. Germany. This is inside Europe on today's program investigator Eliot Higgins. He's the guy who probed the Russian spy-scandal. He speaks to d-w. We find the declassified version of classified information that may would exist pretty incredible the amount of information that's actually how that also an inside here. The European Union sends asylum-seekers back to Afghanistan, but is it safe activists, say it's not was the brutal murder of a Bulgarian. Journalist linked to her work and Serbia hosts, a major NATO exercise these stories and more coming up on inside Europe. There's been widespread condemnation of the rape and brutal murder of Bulgarian. Journalist, Victoria, Marinova the body of the thirty year old was found in a park in the northern town of Reuss last weekend. It makes her the third reporter to be made in an e you member-state over the past year. Mary never had just started hosting a new current affairs show called detector and its first edition, which was last month. The show interviewed two investigative journalists about the alleged fraudulent use of e funds by businessmen and politicians as Nick Martin fan. There's some suspicion over whether her killing was linked to her journalism. Verster journalist Demeter three hours of beauty Turia Marinova proudly promoting her new current affairs show last month on the Bulgarian channel TVN, but she would only ever get to host one edition tweak, and she was found dead in Polk having been raped strangled and beaten over the head several times. Jacqueline. Doesn't it time for recording. It was unclear whether the her murder was linked to her work and media have reported that Marinova who's not really an investigative journalist. She was the former wife of the TV channels ONA and of merely introduced the investigative interview. They said one theory, the police pursuing is the Marinova was killed by a patient from a nearby psychiatric facility, but the way investigators quickly sought to play down her work just hours after the killing has left many Bulgarian suspicious including longtime investigative journalist, Asan Yordan off suspicious because I know that when they use the mental such down that they have something to, I don't think it's normal without giving somebody who's just by the police to spread out version from the first hour that sexual monitoring from some who is crazy or or something flag that there is no law. Logic to that. They could do that. If they're trying to hide something, you'll of investigative reporting website. Bill had linked up with Marinov is TV show detector to uncover allegations of widespread fraud of a u. funds among those implicated in the scandal with several high ranking Bulgarian and Russian officials as the team were finalizing the details of that probe, you'll do not said they received a serious threat. We go for dential information that the guys exposed in our investigation publications. I mean, not only get one, but Russia are going to make something sharp as the team, and we send disinformation to reporters without borders and to French authorities still because we don't believe get to. We expected all the times king Abed's to them, but we never expected that it could be our curriculum rose. For example, Bulgarian investigators insists there was no direct threats against Marinova Pauline at as head of the Balkans desk for reporters without borders, acknowledged that they'd been made aware that the journalism team Brin danger, our guns ation is making calls to the Bulgarian treaties about the safety of journalists, two weeks. Some of this assassination to request from the Bulgarian iterative that they provide some security for the journalist who published the investigative report on the tax fraud scandal along with the EU and the organization for security and cooperation in Europe. Reporters without borders has called for serious and thorough investigation into Marinova murder. We need to know whether this is linked to a professional activity on not that in-between days, no way that the journalist who feel threatened where attacked all those who say they need some security. Should be left like this without any security. The bomb that killed the investigative journalist and blogger close to her home vote was the third journalist to be killed in the space of a year. Deafening Carolina Galicia was killed in a car bombing. Last October in motor and young cushier was murdered in Slovakia in February. Both cases thought to be linked to their work on covering an edge corruption in their respective countries research into leaked documents, known as the Panama papers suggested the prime minister's wife owned a stake in shell company that engaged in large scale money laundering. Bulgarian, investigative journalists, meanwhile complained of intimidation at obstruction as they attempt to do that job reporters without borders described in a report this summer, how journalist would receive coded messages, defamatory campaigns, physical assaults, which have caused often leads to self censorship. And fortunately being an investigative journalist in Bulgaria, is today something that is on the. Paper possible in practice not possible because of all the of sectors this journalist face. So today we hope that the game three TS, we consider our calls will hear what the Europeans dish not telling them and will really take in to consideration the fact that investigative Germany's have to be respected. Huguenots Asians will press freedom. Index shows Bulgaria fooling from year to year and is now the lowest of any EU country at one hundred. Eleventh at one hundred eighty countries worldwide. You're off who's been an investigative journalist for more than twenty years has had two attempts on his life to the breeze and the police made investigation. And they found that the way guy who who offered me was the leader of political parking area. And the second time he was a prosecutor, none of this investigation. NHS was finished over, how would you consider to be protected here in in this country? A few days after Marinova murder. A second suspect about Gary and man was arrested in Germany. In connection with her killing, I suspect was released without charge after being questioned by police and if anything good has come out of Marinova murder, it is perhaps the recognition of the increased threat faced by journalists here in Europe. Now, dazzling brighter than ever is the spotlight on the widespread corruption. The continues to blight Bulgaria, the e u poorest country Nick mountain debut, and I'm Keith Walker in Bonn. Germany. This is inside Europe. According to British police to agents of Russia's GRU military intelligence agency traveling under the Aaliyah's Alexandra Petrov and wrestler bushy RAV used a novel Chuck nerve agent to poison, former Russian double agent, Sergei scruple and his daughter Yulia in the English city of Salisbury in March. It's a story we've been following here on inside Europe. The investigative group Belling Kaz claimed Petrov's. Real name is Dr. Alexander Mishkin a GRU military doctor last month. Bellingham said the other man barshop was a GRU Colonel and recipient of Russia's highest state award the hero of Russia medal claims refuted by Moscow during the week. D-w spoke with Belen cats, founder Eliot Higgins. My colleague Burr gate mass, asked him if he cooperated with the British intelligence services. In this case we haven't. I mean, we have carpeting in the past people when they join investigation team will. Namic seventeen sharing it with them. She's a very one way process. We share information with them. They don't give us anything back. So yeah, I mean, we've just what are on this case Belling based. It's probe on passport information, residents databases, car registration documents, and phone records that type of thing as he claimed nine hundred nine point, nine percent publicly available information to keep in mind is often to these investigations is gonna involve classified information. So there's only so much they can reach public. So I, I think what we do in a ways we find the declassified version of classified information that may already exist unless for open information frigging credible, the amount of information that's actually how that we have Higgins other some sources he can't give away. Well, I mean, generally, all Aces' open. I mean, this is an unusual case because we have used contacts in Russia to get documents. But I mean, the vast majority are investigations. I'd say like ninety nine point, nine percent using publicly available information and we show. That information in our our reports Higgins encourages others to use this kind of open source investigations. He even teaches his techniques and seminars DWI Adam, how has methods will change journalism? I could have very significant effect. I mean, we we do a lot to train people. We run our and workshops. We'll we'll various local groups. We're just starting project spokesman Yemen where we're gonna be shiny people on the ground in Yemen. Yeah. She talked mincing instance to show them how to use open source investigation techniques alongside traditional investigation techniques. I mean, we travel around the vote training kinds of people. So I'm when we see someone using this work, it's very fulfilling and organizations like the New York Times, for example, do some really great work with this form of investigation, founder of Belen cart. Investigative group Eliot Higgins. They're speaking with DWI spear mass during the week, Russian President. Vladimir Putin's spokesman Dmitry peskov refused to confirm the Michigan had been awarded the hero of Russia metal. He insists. Did that the Kremlin would not discuss investigative reports on media articles on the script poisoning in the absence of official British requests for information. From Germany's international broadcaster w this is inside Europe. Last week. Afghanistan's minister for refugees said more than five hundred Afghan failed. Asylum-seekers had been deported by European countries since January twenty eighteen. It's a policy that has become increasingly controversial. That's because of the ongoing war in Afghanistan. In July, an Afghan youth killed himself after being deported. The twenty three year old had lived in Germany for eight years before he was sent back to Kabul activists, say the European Union has no right to reject Afghanistan seekers and send them back from Brussels. Teri Schultz reports on a new campaign led by Amnesty International era. Hameedullah knows all too well. Why people try to flee ghanistan meaty lived there all her life until very recently risking her life daily as a women's rights. Campaigner you leave woman to morning and you don't know if you'd attend save in one piece, how meaty joined. Amnesty International a few months ago, and finally moved to a safer location. Now she's heading up amnesties drive to stop European Union governments from sending Afghans back to their dangerous homeland. The NGO has documented cases of returnees from Germany, the Netherlands, Norway Sweden, including unaccompanied minors and young adults who arrived in Europe is children. Some who couldn't remember ever living enough ghanistan or who were deported back to places they've never been did, even got to the Amnesty International has noticed that situation on is extremely volatile at the moment of visit high date of civilian. Casuality even Afghanistan is no more faith from south to north east west then, did he then we are here. Amedee's outside the European parliament at a demonstration before heading into briefly makers about why the campaign called keep Afghans safe is so necessary decision and Ghana son is extremely volatile sending minors sending people, young boys and girls who are not even boning up on a stone back to a country where it's unknown to them, sending people who took long and difficult journeys to arrive here for a better life for themselves, and their families is is totally unjust and unfair. It's time for the European politicians to reconsider their decision on this, and they should put a ban on sending any of them back to a. Now, Jeep is a twenty six year old Afghan pursuing a master's degree in Amsterdam has heard the stories about the fate of compatriots less fortunate than himself. That's one reason he joined the campaign to keep Afghans safe. There has been a returning from UK who got killed in Afghanistan. Another one reported from Hamburg who committed suicide in Assad himself hasn't been able to visit his home district of Ghazni and nine years as members of Afghanistan's has ARA ethnic minority as tells GW his whole family had to flee due to targeted persecution by the Taliban because of the conflict. My family has left of gunnison. I have my family in London in Australia, Australia, even like we worry all the time when there's an explosion. Like we keep calling every friend and family member Dutch member of the European parliament Duda Sargentini accuses e you governments of violating the international legal principle of non non-reform all expelling a person involuntarily. To a territory where he or she fears threats to life or freedom. And when it comes to sending people back to ghanistan very often, this is not a safe thing to do. I think most of the Member States seduction send people back are not respecting the treaties Sargentini also blast the joint way forward agreement signed between Brussels and Kabul in two thousand sixteen. She characterizes as promising e you development aid in exchange for Afghans STAN, making it easier for European governments to return failed asylum-seekers. It is insane and the joined way forward deal of two years ago suggested that we would set up a whole reintegration system for people. But how do you reintegrate people in a country that gets more insecure by today that is very poor and people that actually don't want to be there that is quite impossible. Just this week, the United Nations Assistance Mission in Afghanistan. Released figures, showing civilian casualties are on the rise. Already this year, almost as many people have been killed as in all of two seventeen. But one drug goes to Raja a migration official with a European Commission told the European Parliament's hearing that situation is taken into account when legal decisions are made about who to send back and wear to Russia. Also says the European Commission does as much follow up as possible on returnees and has looked into some allegations such as that unaccompanied minors are being sent back by themselves. He says, you governments all deny. This has happened despite anecdotal reports to the contrary, we have been particularly attentive to the situation of ghanistan, which is certainly not an easy one, the raw great security challenges getting stunned, of course recognize that. But there is something that is also recognized by the authorities in the Member States when deciding upon return and went taking their decision in a court of law, that leads to return process. That would in fact seem to be reflected in this year's figures from. A European Asylum Support office Oreo, so which tracks where asylum-seekers come from and where they're allowed to stay. A also says last year thirty, three percent of Afghan request to remain in the EU were granted for the first six months of twenty eighteen that figure rose to forty, three percent. Teri Schultz d-w Brussels. I'm Keith Wilbur in Bonn. Germany. You're listening to inside Europe. Serbia is often described as an ally of Russia. So it might have come as a prize to see the country hosting a major NATO disaster relief exercise of the last week feelings about NATO still run high in Serbia, almost twenty years after the bombing campaign during the Kossovo conflict that severely damaged the capital Belgrade. But now the country's president says it's time for a more rational approach towards the alliance guys alone spoke to him and NATO's secretary general Jens Stoltenberg. The NATO doesn't often get an airing in Serbia the alliance's bombing of the country in nineteen nine nine is still fresh in many people's minds, but Serbia has been increasing its cooperation with NATO in recent years, and it's just made its boldest step so far by holding a NATO disaster response exercise for good measure Serbia also hosted the organization's secretary general asked the country's president Alexander vote-rich. If you wanted to change people's perceptions of the alliance is all about emotional issues mainly because of nine thousand nine hundred nine and because of cost issue, this is something that we need to work on the we do improve our cooperation after awhile will have to put things more on the Russian foundations. And it will happen. Sides pains to emphasize the no military nature of the exercise and NATO secretary general Jens Stoltenberg insists that he respects be as long standing policy of military neutrality, but there's been much turbulence in the western Balkans recently from allegations of Russian interference in Macedonia, and Montenegro to the election of Serb separatists to the presidency of Bosnia. Mr. Stoltenberg says, that means it makes sense for NATO to strengthen its cooperation with Serbia NATO's here to Bill partnerships who prevent this region sliding back into the post with open conflicts between people on this in this region, the partnership with Serb has become more important is the fact that we have seen some tendencies towards the turning to the very strong nationalistic rhetoric of the past, and we have the void that I'm sure you're seeing the graffiti on the walls. About right when you've been here still very strong feeling against night, what can you do to help change those feelings? Do you think that's Ponti about recognizing that many people Serb are still have painful memories about ninety nine. I have today expressed my condolences to all those lost loved ones. I think we need to recognize that this is. Difficult part of our history, additional forget about it, but you should not be held back by history. We should be able to look into the future and on work together. And that's exactly what we are doing. Participants from Serbia. I'm NATO member countries or indeed working together here mcdonagh that's about an hour outside Belgrade. They've already staged a rescue from cough crashing on. They'll be working on an earthquake scenario during the days of the exercise, the Meinen chance for Serbia is that head of emergency management, rag marriage. I'm very, very honored and proud to see almost two thousand people right here in Belgrade is the biggest exercise in the NATO ever. I'm not politician. I am. I am a professional and for me it's it's a huge, huge step ahead in the coordination between the country, including the coordination between the survey night. If you look for example, where you'll reports twenty years after the second World War over the world and date, you haunt Tokyo hosting the Olympics nineteen sixty four Germany was winning the World Cup people of friends quite quickly. Can you. See things like this helping to move on to twenty years. Of course, it's it's a secure step. You know, for the relationship between Serbia Nate, take all around Belgrade and sees to see the people here find a tall to change the views of native. I'm standing in front of a mural which depicts a stealth fighter and the flaming Belgrade's skyline underneath the slogan. Serbian, never. In NATO, this positive campaign on the strategy, likely heaviness today is going to be overshadowed by another three hundred and fifty days in visual. Have this negative campaign Yellen the military is the director of Belgrade center for Europe. Antics studies if Nate and Serbian society remain oblivion. 'hostages silent to these is going to kick a slurry hard because Russians entry knees with the support of certain elements close Aban government are going heavy. To exploit the forthcoming twentieth anniversary of a beginning of bumping Russians, don't hiding it. They're planning to make several documentaries and some axioms and Chinese are jumping on the Vang on Isabelle. Clearly changing Serbian perceptions about NATO is going to take more than warm disaster relief exercise. But perhaps it's still possible that rather than the twentieth anniversary bringing recriminations reconciliation might be in the air guide alone. I d w Belgrade if you'd like to contact the show, we would love to hear from you his Email address Europe, date, w dot com. This as inside Europe and I'm Keith Walker in Bonn. Germany. This is inside Europe and I'm Keith Walker in Bonn. Germany coming up in the next half an hour where mental Health Day and loneliness report from Berlin. Also the revival of Christian pilgrimages and France. Necessitated Usama rebutted one left at the need. We have to gather together the need for brotherhoods the needs to have some places where we can drop anchor. Otherwise, we will drift into more and more individualism and solitude, where people lose sense of life. Also on the show Portugal faces. It's doc colonialist past and former slave trade and why remain is same sex. Marriage referendum was a huge flop. Portugal has a rich history of exploring once on chartered seas and lands such as Brazil and Africa. But that history also has a dockside with colonialism. I'm the slave trade and Lisbon two separate public projects, a slavery memorial and museum, celebrating Portuguese expiration have become lightning rods for debate about the country's colonial past. Jake sagana row has more. These gentle rolling waves once carried African slaves from Lisbon to the new world and memorial recognizing Portugal's role and the colonial slave trade will be arrested in a grassy square steps away. The memorial was approved in a public vote, but controversy about the country's history of colonization, and slavery still continues descendants from former colonies like Angola and Mozambique say up until now they have been denied a place in Portugal's history. Faye into Beatrice Gomez. Diaz is the president of joss the anti racism association that proposed the slavery memorial. Sometimes I remember me being child and leaving in Lisbon in having no references looking at majority of portraits people and not being like them and have not having a place for me and from people like me, her group wants to honor slaves. She says, are often portrayed in Portuguese history as no more than goods. For trade politicians here often claimed Portugal is one of the least racist countries in Europe, but says many black Portuguese, don't agree. Black Portuguese are not recognized as Portuguese because they're always relating black Portuguese to the countries in Africa. There were occupied by Portugal. DS is also a critic of the other historic project plan for Lisbon, the tentatively named museum of discoveries, which would tell the story. Of the amazing voyages of exploration carried out by the Portuguese navigators who first charted routes around Africa, India and South America Diaz and other critics say the museums theme would whitewash the violence of Portugal's colonial history. But in turn, the supporters of the museum accused their detractors of denying the triumphs of Portuguese explorers in Portugal. There are some people who try to defend that slavery was almost invention of the Portuguese, a false wrong idea. That's we're not to the the president of the international Lusophone movement, which promotes Portuguese language and culture around the world. All other issues like scientific discoveries culture, relationships. They not exist. Only the question of slavery for us to profoundly wrong at his office in Lisbon's independence palace. He says, the slave. Dery memorial and the museum of discoveries would complement each other in the right context. But that context doesn't exist in Portugal according to anthr- apologised, Bruno CENA, Martin partial as a self representation in which the violent issue of Cornelius is not part of it Martin's lectures at Portuguese, high schools about slavery and colonial violence. He says, there's a clear resistance to talking about slavery and the official history curriculum downplays the subject there is that why going back to the corneal pasts and to these rices Istorii we are only hurting partial and ignoring racism or colonial history is to accept the continuing violence of racism in our society. Nando? Yes. How are you. Thank you very much for me. This is not a new debate for Portugal for Nando. Rosa's historian and former parliamentarian says, the difference today is that researchers of African descent are changing how Portugal talks about its past. That's why he says the museum will need a different name discovering machine. We didn't discovered anything because people was there. And the people that was discovered also is the right time is a museum of colonial because it is about that that you are speaking. Diaz and her group are still looking for an afro descendant artist to design the slavery memorial. But when the monument is unveiled next year, Rosa's says it will be a milestone in the fight between Portugal's past and it's future. Jake sagana wrote d-w Lisbon. And I'm Keith Walker in Bonn. Germany. This is inside Europe still to come in the next ten minutes Poland's showdown between the country's ruling nationalists and it's pro European liberals and the revival of Christian pilgrimages and France. Last weekend remains voted on whether to constitutionally redefine marriage as the union between a man and a woman. They current definition of marriage uses the gender, neutral term spices in order for the result of the referendum to be binding if required thirty percent of voters to take part. But just over twenty percent of the voting population showed up to vote to discuss. I'm joined by book arrest based journalist kit Gillet. Hello kit Heike. Why did it fail on? I thought that was a very strong boycott campaign. So the groups who were opposed it, which included one of the political parties, but also l.. Groups and many of the more liberal minded people in the country strongly opposed the referendum, but realizing that if it did pass the voting threshold, the the, the majority of people would have voted. Yes, they decided the most effective campaign and the most effective approach was to to the referendum altogether. And obviously this had a big impact. There was also other reasons. This idea of changing the constitution. I mean, getting married is already illegal in the country. There is no civil unions in Romania either. So a lot of people were not entirely sure what they were voting for Romania is one of six European Union Member States that do not alive same sex marriage or civil unions. How conservative is Romania, the country's very conservative in the sense that the the orthodox church here is is very strong. There is, I think, may be ninety percent of the. Population class himselves as authored oaks Christian. And in general, there is a certain conservativeness when it comes to homosexuality and same sex relationships homosexuality was legalized in Romania back in two thousand and one, and there isn't really a strong push, and I don't think the country is ready yet for for same sex marriages. There are many Romanians who you know returning from the west or there are many younger Rumanians who are living in the largest cities. You have quite westernized liberal lives. And so the country is changing in that sense. But when it comes to issues like same sex marriage or civil unions, it is still deeply conservative and far behind some of the more liberal countries in western Europe. If so, many people were talking about what is so few go out to votes was that low tonight expected. No, is the implants. I mean, no one was expecting half of the population to go out and dogs, especially with the boycott, but the polls in the days before the the vote had predicted that may be thirty five percent of the population would vote. So that said the threshold would be passed. And part of this was a controversial decision by the government to extend the length of the the vote from one day, which is the traditional length of referendums to two days. Now that was very controversial decision because it was seen as an attempt to influence to influence the vote. But even with that, you know what she said, the turnout failed just twenty percent and it really wasn't expected. I talked to many people in the lead up to the referendum and those on both sides thought it would pass thirty percent Mark. And even at the end of the first, it was not clear whether which way would go. I. Into some of the polling booths, and I was surprised by how few people turning up and how quiet they were. Sure. Could Gillis thanks for coming on the show. Kit Gillis book arrest based journalist on inside Europe. Thanks. Us. From Germany's international broadcaster. W this case inside here. Poland's upcoming local elections are not so much about local politics, more of a kind of faceoff between the ruling nationalist right-wing and supporters of a pro European Liberal coalition ahead of next year's general elections. Most regions are now governed by opposition politicians, but the nationalists are trying to gain control also at the local level. Nowhere as the election campaign fiercer than in the capital Warsaw as Yu-lian banner reports. One of the candidates running for Walsum there is powerless deputy Justice minister prosthetic Chiaki. He's notorious for making the country's coats dependent on executive power in violation of the polish constitution and e you law. He's responsible for a controversial, no script on the pressure from the US and Israel, which was meant to penalize those suggesting that some polls play the role in the Nazi holocaust machine during World War Two Yawkey is also known for his strong anti immigrant rhetoric yet for the ruling nationalist coalition. This thirty three year old is a precious commodity. He embodies Poland's younger generation. Tiny vishnu. In his campaign video using catchy rap music, Patrick yucky who comes from a town in south and pound is shown as one of young people who have converged on wall in search of jobs. The lyrics are about the Elliott nation in big city and about the way that people of wall. So looked down the news is on them, calling them sweet key, which means joss with meals to by moms carried back from the weekend visits home. Yucky says that recent changes introduced in Thailand by the ruling party won't be complete unless the extended to the local level. Steve advice today, if we want to fight for just and transparent state. And if we want to carry on with positive changes, which ordinary poll support, we must put an end to corruption and cronyism which exist in local government bodies. We must stop the rot by this yucky means the entourage of the outgoing Walsum Hannigan valves and opposition liberal party politician. The nationalists claim. She deliberately failed to stem the cities real estate mafia. Although suspected role in series of property sales scandals was never proved in cold to the ruling low and Justice party has circle represents everything that was supposedly wrong with the liberals. Here in the second recall in a somewhat rundown part of Walsall's Makoto Bora. Yet his rhetoric sounds convincing to thirty something teacher Banta, staunch nationalist voter has about an appeal. You know, I think that young people follow people who are honest, and he does seem honest, right? And I believe that he is, you know, I like fulfilling the promises that they gave now I can only list those which they have kept already and then hoping that they will keep all of them. Like the idea of supporting the city. I like transparency. I believe them. Mm. A couple of tramps stops away from the school is the gleaming modern Sousa office park. Those young people who work for top corporations based here around likely to vote nationalist sitting in a tenth floor office and executive in his late thirties is a supporter of the opposition candidate for mayor and Bain, and pro-european forty six year old, former foreign minister and euro MP. My vote is for Rafael trust kofsky. It's a choice between the traditional isolation is more pro auro paean antidote. So I think this election will be a symbol where we want to live where we want to be. We need strong alliances and we can't find the whole world alone. Truscott himself couldn't be more explicit when he talks about the ruling penalty on his campaign trail. This is an existential fight. They question our place in the European Union. They undermine our economic policy and they want to change everything. They want to rewrite the history books. Support for original favorites. Just kofsky described as handsome politician has been slipping. His campaign video is lackluster featuring his wife and two teenage kids playing a garden. His focus is on inclusive diversity and no malady. Yet critics point out that the liberals may have gone too far by trying to beat the nationalist said their own game populism in the months leading up to the elections. The liberal control of city council has slashed the prices of public transport and kindergarten fees and launched a frenzy of road improvements. Meanwhile, trust skis, nationalist rival Yankee, keeps making even more promises, whoever emerges victorious in the battle for the wall. So city council. One thing is clear. The result will show whether Alden Republic citizens are ready to continue to oppose the government's increasingly authoritarian policies, all whether the majority has been won over by the populace. Doubts and nationalist rhetoric Yuliana net d w also you're listening to inside Europe coming up next world mental Health Day and loneliness and the revival of Christian pilgrimages in France, necessitated you are so minimal. Rebuttal left the needs. We have together together the needs for brotherhoods the needs to have some places where we can drop anchor. Otherwise we will drift into more and more individualism and solitude, where people lose their sense of life that report coming up for you and less than ten minutes. I'm Keith Walker in Bonn. Germany. You're listening to inside Europe. Len leanness is often linked to mental health issues. Those in the later stages of life who are often less able to get ice on the bias are particularly at risk. And as we celebrate world mental Health Day, we look at Germany's capital Berlin which is often described as a city of singles, figures there suggest more than fifty percent of residents live alone. Thomson Walker went to find out how Berlin is coping. Before Berlin was so radically incomprehensively gentrified. I lived in a fourth floor apartment of a crumbling house whose windows looked across a concrete Yod into the home of an old man. We largely kept different hours and he himself to himself as such. Our exchanges never progressed beyond the occasional stairwell greeting, but late at night. I'd often see the light go on in his kitchen and in he would Hubble until one evening. He didn't for a couple of days. I rang his bell and eventually alerted the buildings manages they came and shortly thereafter confirmed my worst fears. Walk up. Acres chilling, a Silva head woman in her early seventies had a similar experience in her block of flats than bosses in the hottest. It went direct meant a amount of new point. She saw no sign of life at her neighbors apartment for a couple of weeks. She called the police. They told her if they broke in and he was just on holiday, she'd be liable for repes-. He too had, in fact, died for her. The incident was pivotal driving home. The need to prevent such 'isolation in this city of almost four million. So she founded Sibbon's or silver network, a telephone based solution modelled on British project. Asmara's absolute elemental. He'd beaten play on the hill who wish to eight days over the last Christmas period Sheehan had team offered ballons old and lonely. Something she describes as elementary, the chance to converse of the three hundred calls a third lead to real conversations that coupled with the estimated three hundred thousand Berliners over the age of sixty who suffer from some degree of loneliness often because a spouse and friends of died, family has moved away all they've had to downsize to a completely different part of the city underscored acres shillings determination to make the Sibanda hotline a more permanent fixture. When that's up and running. She'll start to partner coolers. He wanted more regular chat with so-called zip and its friends. She's already been inundated with volunteer applications. But sibling is by no means the only option apart from other organizations that introduce lonely Berliners to a new companion, numerous groups and schemes all over the city of classes, lectures, debates trips and evenings out part of the problem is getting word to those who live in isolation and often without access to the internet. Across town. Another new venture is also trying to spread the message boost Zeti or on the post sixty is a humanist association. Smorgasbord of opportunities designed to prevent the onset of loneliness as the assembled company sung at the opening ceremony. The idea is game mines stat, lines them all together rather than lonely. That closing line delivered punch and passion was a simple declaration of love for life. I. And even when we spoke afterwards, they reiterated that sentiment talking about how advancing years and an ability to have fun, not mutually exclusive for them. It's all about getting maximum joy -ment out of whatever stage of life there at and being brave enough to try something new for some that might be singing and dancing a computer Coles, or a group walk in the park for others. It might simply be picking up the telephone and dialing in number, they know will connect them to someone who's happy to toke. I've long since left the apartment building with the concrete Yod and now live in a place where everyone knows each other well enough to prevent the onset of isolation. But I often think of the old man who pasta way at home alone, I'll never know had that been the same, but unities back then there are now if the end of his life might have played out differently, but I do wonder. Tuazon Walker reporting from Berlin. This is inside Europe over the past thirty years, the number of pilgrims arriving at Santiago, compa Stella. The end of the way of Saint James has been multiplied by a hundred. It used to be three thousand. Now it's three hundred thousand dozens of other pilgrimages have been revived or reinvented in France in particular to more Michelle, for example, shutt- tour or she'll do gar there on I thirty long pilgrimages in France and hundreds more short ones. So why? And times when fewer people are going to church or even just identifying as Christian have become so popular. John Lawrenson joined the fines of pilgrim's that take part pot an annual pilgrimage and the northern France today of fellow Siham to find out. That's it for me. The new, they all street is advocates. Softy maybe. At the end of an open mass, attended by three thousand people, eight men hoist golden robe statue of the Virgin Mary onto their shoulders and start walking a route around the town. The crowd follows others join. Very happy to come here and to celebrate these miracle took place one thousand years ago and you can't hear keep hanging around. People is a song that was written, especially for this. Notre Dame. The Kodo wasn't written in the nineteenth century. Because. Unless people are going to church, but come here. Queen of the heavens as the songs cooled tells the story of the townspeople who turned to prayer after being visited by the black death in one thousand and eight. The Virgin Mary is said to have appeared to a hermit monk with red cooled, the SANCO promise to place it around the town to protect it. According to the story, the sick acute, the play, moved away and the Virgin Mary return to ask that people make the pilgrimage around the town. Every year. Father's looney is rector of the not for them to send Kobdo sanctuary diversity in villages over says, originate on, you don't the city rediscovers its origins and its identity with this pilgrimage, and we get a chance to bring faith into the city. Pope Francis says, he wants a church that goes forth and we are going forth as the virgin is doing this very moment to visit the people not just pricing Catholics. Of course, there are so many people. Might just have come out from one in constitutional who will say little prior when they see the statue go by. Not only do shoes on fetter, yellow dog moved to kick. There are two things in religion, the written word, which is the basis of the religions, and then there is spiritually teas, and it is district realty that we see flourishing on the pilgrims ways that our boss is a journalist with France's pilgrim magazine and has published several books on France and Europe's multiplying pilgrimages on ish man Compostela bar in the mall, the cure on the way of sand. James, for example, where there are so many people don't have any firm faith and haven't had religious education. But along this long, walk, discover certain transcend downs, the certain spirituality, they lead you into nature, which means towards the idea of creation and create all also everyone those who have faith and those who don't can't understand, pick remake as a symbol of own life. Pilgrimages can have specific. Religious purpose to do penance or to give thanks the father of modern philosophy and characte after completing his discourse on method that contained his famous. I think therefore I am made a pilgrimage to the Maryanne shrine of Loretto in central Italy to give thanks philosopher fatigue. Oh, author of a book called the philosophy of walking sees in the pilgrimage revival a quest for simplicity poverty. The can bring us closer to God in an increasingly materialistic world. Pled on a pillar in our system talk. What people like about pilgrimages is that the offer has the luxury of poverty on the way of San gems. For example, it is often relatively well of people who in our society of surplus abandons and overproduction can afford two months of voluntary poverty. Back on the sand cold on pilgrimage von, the virgin is carried into the maternity hospital. When mothers with a newborn babies and then many members of the nursing staff queue up to showcase the statues golden cloak ritually extrordinary seen in a public hospital in super secular FRANZ. For the loan is standing next to me, reciting the hail, Mary. Why off pilgrimage is becoming so popular. Now I ask him. Did you minimal. The buzzer wildlife lose wonder. So we the need. We have to gather together the need for brotherhood, the needs to to have some places where we can drop anchor. Otherwise we will drift into more and more individualism and solitude, where people lose sense of life Johnson, d-w venison, and that's it for today. The program is produced with help from Helen Seaney. The science technician is christoph- groover and I'm Keith Walker. Thank you for listening. You can also subscribe to the podcast of the show on signed CLYDE and ITN's inside Europe comes to you from Germany's international broadcaster, Dave w in bomb.
Rome in the Balkans
"This is an ABC podcast in western Serbia. There is a field next to a rebel. It's covered. Now with a blanket of heavy snow under the cold heart of this field. They may just be the ruins of a palace built by a man who was once emperor of the Roman empire. My guest on conversations. Today's Allen Dern Allen is part of the team researching what lies beneath the earth in that faraway field in Serbia. It's something Allen does in the school holidays because his regular job is teaching history to high school students. He's been teaching since he gained his PHD in Roman history from the university of Oxford, and he hopes students will come to be as fascinated by the ancient world as he is welcomed conversations Allen. Thank you, sir. Great today as I say, you're teaching now what sort of primary school student? We well, I was a fairly. I'm going to live in the term not students. So. Never sporty. Boy, I was not tear an awkward gangly sort of student kit with obsession very obsessive from quite a young age. I was obsessed with with history. So it is unbroken thread that runs through my life is sort of passion for history. So to give you an idea. So when I was in. I think if five I decided to organize an archaeology exhibition at the school. So you know, I sort of put something in the in the school notices about does anyone have affected like to put and so he ran little exhibition in the library. And you know, you might be amazed to learn I didn't have a lot of free. I want to know what kind of artifacts. Where way did you interest in the past come from? It's funny. I often wonder that and I've got this this book. It's I think my parents guide me went on about five called. I think it's called buried history. And it's got my name written in my little five year old handwriting and those a little book about different accuracy digs. So it had Sutton who and my scene and remember at that sparked my education kit looking back at that book for long time. But I grew up in a home where he street felt that the past always felt very prison and very significant. My my father was had the experience of being riff Eugene de and of being. Someone who grew up in in China from British background what we he's family doing in in China. If you think that Shanghai China in the nineteen twenties was sort of extraordinary world that Johnny Ballard describes in in impove, a son wish Shanghai was a strange multicultural environment where you had obviously the Chinese CD, but then different European colonizers had carved out international concessions themselves. So my dad growing up in that environment was walking off to his very English public school past the in school with the Hitler youth out the front in the nineteen thirties. My grandfather was a gentlemen's outfitters and was mainly serving the the British ESPN community. But also ended up as sort of amateur magician ended up having quite a sort of following of. As an entertainer in in the spring. What happened to your dad and his family during World War Two? So a lot of my father my father died several years ago. But a lot of his earliest memories were early memories were things like violence witnessing violence in the Sino. Japanese war after nineteen thirty seven. He was born in nineteen twenty nine and then in nineteen forty two shortly after pill harbor he and his family were in turn by Japanese because British citizens, so in fact, the the camp that Jamie bell out describes empire. Son was the same camp. My father was in place called largest outside Shanghai. So dead was not deliberately mistreated because they were civilians rather than prisoners of war, but he experienced a great deal of anxiety. He witnessed bed things. And Bobby end of the war. He was thirteen and had had many illnesses malaria, hepatitis and malnutrition, and that experience of war, and then being refugee in nineteen forty nine when the communists were taking over really largely defined his life in a made him a quite an anxious person. I think and certainly now he would be seen as a classic example of PTSD. How did he come to a strata in one hundred forty nine because after the war, he he and his family stayed in Shanghai. But as I understand it from from his descriptions after the war is a British citizen. They would came to go back to Britain Birt's, the Korean war was just about to kick off and dead was often age where they're worried about him being conscripted. So ustralia seemed like a better option. So they're into Hong Kong and then strata for my. Father. If you sort of imagine his product of an ultra conservative British. DS bro environment in Shanghai. And suddenly he's thrown into nine hundred fifty s astray Lya walking down George Street with two-time shoes. And he never quite recovered from that experience. It was almost like he took a nineteen twenties Englishman and dumped him in nine hundred fifty stray Leah with all of this connection with World War Two. Why is it that you got so interested in Roman history? Look all history. Fascinates me. One of the things that really pushed my buttons for ancient history was historical novels, and particularly but novels solve an author resume Sutcliffe are member of when I was in primary school a red book the eagle at the ninth and the right related books in that series that are all about Raymond Breton. And I think the characters that she created and the sort of stories that she told I found so Vakhidov all the sort of minutiae that she described everyday life as a Roman really inspire me sparked my historical imagination. It's a regret of mine. Actually, I never wrote to rose me Sutcliffe in thank to impact that she had when the could to do it. I it was a couple years after her death. But we should always think people who've had a big impact that impact led to you doing a doctorate on the night, Rome. Empire at the university of Oaksford. What time period is the light Berman empire? When is that? It's hugely arbitrary, of course. But in fact, it's funny because Oxford considers modern history begins in eighty two eighty four. Just like new college. Oxford was founded in the twelfth hundreds. But the we often take the sort of into the third century ID as a conventional time to to talk about light Roman empire because it's a time when the the nitro Roman empire does start changing a lot the stops expanding its boundaries. It faces new and different challenges to do things like the viability manpower culture changes a lot in the fourth century. Obviously, we get the the impact of Christianity as an institutionalized as a Roman imperial religion. And also just the role of the army changes massively during the third and fourth century, increasingly beyond me becomes with power is. Well, I mean, it's cold the Roman empire Rome, the city still the the heartland of that empire. Well, not really Rome, always maintained mess. You've cachet mess you've symbolic importance. Two in Rome. But as a seat of power by the end of the third century, Rome became increasingly marginalized, it wasn't the power was because it wasn't the soldiers were the soldiers were out on the frontiers, and particularly on the three most important frontier, which along the river Rhine along the river Danube and over in the east facing the the Persians, and that's those regions tended to be from the second half of third century became the the breeding ground improves. And so obviously, we to talk about Servier and partly in those provinces in the Balkans of what the Roman provinces of Moe's year Panonia became the real breeding ground for a particular bunch of military Roman imports more about the kind of men that would becoming an emprie in this period. I mean like Caesar in like Antony who the the emperor's? Now, increasingly from the third century Roman empire almost starts turning into a kind of vicious meritocracy because. People who became improves were increasingly tough military man, though, men who often came from Pisit backgrounds who were often stereotype in Roman literature as being very rough and uncultured that reason through the ranks. But clearly, very competent men who are able to to confront the sort of challenges that Ryan was facing. So as men like Claudius gothic is for example, who was born in what's now Serbia, and we have literally accounts of Claudius gothic is one of his party tricks was to punch horses in the face. Yeah. You know, just because he could I assume obviously material punch, and we're told that you know, you could knock the teeth out. And so be sort of men Taff military guys who were competent who followed by this soldiers, but let any of sort of heiress to credit polish, in fact, one of those sort of literary genre that we get in the fourth century, particularly what to call the pita me's sort of summary. We let those sort of cliff notes or cliff nights of Roman history. So that improves would actually understand a beat about the background of rhyme history because he's coming from very poorly educated background. Sometimes they got a little God of now. You're impr-. He's some stories. What about the the way that succession was organized wasn't hereditary one of the problems that autocracies always have is how do you manage succession and the Raymond's always struggled with that? Whenever you you have an attempt to sit up Dina St. of family members. You could be fantastic imprint doesn't many sons going to be one and so different imprisoned experimented with is in different ways. In the third century was characterized by massive instability of succession, so the turnover of Roman imprison the third centuries. Astonishing mini Rome. Brian. Absolutely. It's a good analogy. So many Roman emperors lasted weeks or months before they were overthrown by their own soldiers again or assassinated or died a plague or kill bye bye. Bye burien. It wasn't a good time to go through the top job. Tell me about Diocletian and how he decided to come at this issue of succession. Okay. So one of the reasons that later Roman empire often starts into eighty four is because that's the accession of Diocletian. So Diocletian was born in what's now Croatia. He was a fit the pattern of tough military guy. He was on campaign over in Persia when the previous impr- Karras and his his son both died his son in Philly suspicious circumstances Diocletian seized control of the army because beyond the ACLU. Claimed him but this is the army O'Brien Persia. So the other messy problem of Roman empire is very very big. So you've got the problem of succession. You've also got the problem of delegation and communication. I mean, how would how would messages even be piles to the bulb -solutely by by dispatch riders on horses? So getting a message back we'll to get a message from one end of the impact of the other in really good analysis of, but we'll take wakes Diocletian his task immediately was to try to find a way of sharing power. So that he could appoint some sort of dip pity or colleague who could help him manage the the empire, particularly since at the time there were while he was in Persia. There was already revolts and things breaking out in goals. He decided a job share would be a safe way to come at this this like a coalition. If you will tap to to show. So he was appointed into eighty four couple of years later. He appointed his companion, Maxine so Mexcian, Hercules, who's pretty important now story about Serbia. And Maxine again was a tough military guy. He was born in the town of Sirmium or just outside Sirmium, which is modern Sremska Mitrovica in in Serbia and Mexcian was sent off to the west. He was sort of tough fixer to go and sort out. What was going on there? I was thinking of mixed in as a character from lock stock into smoking barrels. I imagine him as sort of tough eastern gazers too short use. He was not a polished, man. He was stolen in his councils. According to one of three sources, we have. But was bound to Diocletian particularly through a sort of military bond of comradeship. And in fact, just read a great I had to examine faces by great young ustralian Scuola bar and Waldron who's just finished his in bar and nothing did a really good job of talking about the importance of sort of military brotherhood as being a wave. It improves sought to build a sense of collegiality that didn't necessarily depend on domestic succession Diocletian in Mexcian mates. They knew but fought to give a grown up through the ranks to give and once maximun takes on that role. What kind of Impreza was he what what's known about the sort of rule of any was besides being this tough, east end Khanna Geza Mexican was very much eclipsed by Diocletian. Intellectually think Diocletian was an. Normally clever man, Maxine lists Diocletian Mexcian. Well, but under Diocletian leadership sit out to re reorganize the empire administratively, so they vase or change the nature of how provinces governed in order to sort of the devolve power somewhat the brains in the Brown kind of dynamic a wave. They depicted in sources, and it's reflected in their been names as well. Because one of the things guys have to had to do was to try to emphasize change the picture of their origins in order to boost village. So even Diocletian he's a regional nine was Diack lays, but Diocletian a sounds grand his name to that. And in order to boost the sense of legitimacy since I couldn't talk about the great ancestors. They linked themselves to God's so. So. Diocletian took on the cog Newman of Jovis. So he's the Jovian IMP improve the impolite Jupiter say clearly the king of gods. Right and Mexcian took on the title of Hercules, or who curious so, you know, hook curious the brute with the club and Mexcian sometimes depicted like that on his coins, for example and Jupiter as the king of gods and each of those in had a subordinate as well. So the two of these are called the gusty of a senior emperors, and then each of them had a Caesar and so- Diocletian sit up a sort of system that hopefully took advantage or hopefully built a system of succession, so that each of them had a subordinate Caesar who was a doctor disease sons, but not actually sons with the idea that makes Mexican Diocletian would abdicate and their sons within takeover so in eighty three or five there's a great sort of. Moment of imperial pump. Where Maxine Diocletian both retired and with their seizes to ever went to the backbench. They went to the backbench not they stay there. Well, Diocletian did and Diocletian again, one of the reasons he's such a clever man is he actually managed to make retirement work for him. What did he do? He went off in grew cabbages, according to our sources, so you can visit the place that he retired to so in split in. Croatia is famous palace was built for Fahed isolation. It's still there, and he seems retired with civil hundred troops reduced security, and he quite enjoyed his retirement, and this caused messy problems for Christian writers because Maxine and Diocletian with both remembered as persecutors of Christians. So is a is a great text by a guy called like tensioness? On the deaths of the persecutors and like tantricism theses if you miss with God's people. He really misses you up. So it's sort of catalog of, you know, how if you persecute Christians you get killed over trade or eaten by worms, or you know, horrible things happen, and he had to sort of try and fit Diocletian into these thesis. So he talked about how Diocletian was plagued by guilt for rest of his life. Which is. It's no evidence siemian. However, he really liked the limelight. So guy. Guy cabbage. And I didn't wanna go go go and grow heavy disease sort of Trump abdicated. But then he came back again a couple of years later and dietitians sort of system we call the tetrarchy of these four imprint in VIN started breaking down because the the idea of appointing seizes it's kind of good idea. But the problems these guys also had sons, and they had very ambitious sons Diocletian didn't but Maxine did. Here the sun COMEX inches and one of the seizes Constanza set a very ambitious son cool constant time also born in what's Nassar be. And you probably heard of him constant time. The great is the next one is fine here. We'll tell me about Maxine because he is the guy becomes the focus of this field lean in Serbia. He doesn't go off to grow cabbages. He tries to come back when what happens look enormously complicated a little bit of history in the breakdown of the first Truckee as we'd call it. So he comes back, and he's it's okay hetero simplifies so essentially when Constanza died so can stand who was originally Mexi means Caesar when he died in York in England. His army appointed his son Constantine as the replacement Agusti Augustus now that missed up the whole notion of this sort of. Meritocratic appointment. So so you have concentrate Augusta's, Maxine son mix inches also called himself. Augusta's Maxime every time. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. No. I'm augusta's. Mexcian came out of retirement to try to probably help mix interest rule, but makes interest in heathen rapidly fell out because makes mixing in enjoying the limelight far too much. And eventually the the upshot is in eighteen Constantine and Maxine Fata, civil war Ximenes defeated and is been forced to kill himself. Forced to kill him sound pretty sends the price. This is pretty run of the mill for third and fourth century Roman emperors being too gory. What what actually happened did quite sure we know that to be honest, but that was the direction from Constantine. So he killed himself. But. Confused of imperial debts. So many of them into give her little this. There's lightning bolts and mauled a lightning bolt. Carris the impr- before Diocletian was hit by a lightning bolt in impulsion. Apparently. So once Maxine was out of the picture tell me what happened next with Constantine. Why is he the nine that even those of us who don't know much about ancient history have a center, he was great. He was. And of course, the reason that we know that is because all the reason we looms so large is he had such a massive impact on the world. So politically constant Tyne gradually defeats his rivals until he's the sole improved Roman world. So in three twelve he defeats and kills mix into use at the battle of Melvin bridge. Nero in he'd been makes a treaty with the emperor. Who's now merged in the in the east Kenya's by three twenty four leukaemias is dead after another civil war Constantine, which was really engineered by Constantine. So Constantine was a ruthless nasty piece of work, but he was certainly incredibly capable and good good. What he was doing. So by three twenty four. He's improved assault improve Roman world. And he solves the problem or addresses the problem of delegation by going back to the model of family dynasty. He had quite a lot of sons so he shared he appointed various. Sons and family members as subordinates seizes so on his death. He was replaced by his imaginatively named sons Constanze constant time and can stand. Who sit out to purge the wrist of family, basically and so on and what is the connection between Constantine in Christianity. It's. If you think about Diocletian Mexcian Roman emperors often sought divine patrons as a way of boosting illegitimacy. So generally, I didn't claim to be God's, but they claimed to have some sort of special relationship with God as the patron Constantine differently. Seems to be looking for a patron God. Now, this huge debate about why he chose the Christian God and huge debate about just how sincere he was to do. So in eighty three twelve certainly by the end of his life in eighty three thirty seven he identified as a Christian and soil himself as God sort of agent on you probably didn't deny three twelve or in any case. He's idea of Christianity changed a lot. But essentially he he sought that sort of Petrin 'age and was looking for new God to do it through and it meant that under him life. Christians suddenly became very different. He ended persecution. Although leukaemias had done that as well. But he ended persecution. He didn't yet stopped to push acute non-christians at came under subsequent improves. But he he certainly it increasingly became socially useful to be a Christian. So the Christian clergy became very mainstream started to operate close to imperial power. And of course, the result of all of these is an institute of the Catholic church, and the reason the why constant Tyne is narrow remembered as a Saint in the orthodox Catholic church. ABC radio. This is conversations with Sarah skate. Tight coast to this field in seep in Serbia where you've been spending a bit of time. What did this look like before archaeologists started digging? The the project that I'm working on began digging in June two thousand seventeen so when you stroll in team arrived in colleagues, bliss them had actually cleared the ground of a lot of the undergrowth. But what we're looking at is imagine a site size of a couple of football fields or at least one football field. Brought Knicks to riverside over. Is a river that runs down to to build grade. But also runs past the city of streams commit true. So now in the ancient world, the city Stransky meet trivia was Roman town of Sirmium which in the fourth century was one of the most important towns in the Roman empire. So the shrimps commit which is in the region of Sarim and stream is unbelievably rape pronounced. Thrim is amazingly flat. It's pancake-flat. So imagine a field that is absolutely flat. It was a weight field rush nixed of banks of very pretty river. That's also had interesting undulations in it. So when you have undulations like like that means masonry means building structures foundations underneath the the ground. It also had a couple of drainage ditches that had been cut across the field at some stage in the last twenty years that had exposed some Roman walls. So it was very obvious that there was a site. They're already in it had been noted as as a side of ruins earlier in the twentieth century. How did that come about? So this is a place who glance GOIC now it's named glance because it was the estate of an Australian. Foul called PD Glatz in the nineteenth century, excuse me. So from the nineteenth century, it was known that. There was a large and important Roman structure because piglets built part of his farmhouse out of masonry from the site. Which was common practice while you're going to banning. Some of Roman ruin. So it was very widely known that there was some sort of Roman site, but in the twentieth century so in nineteen fourteen at the start of the first World War the river. Sauer was the frontier between the Serbs and the star Hungarian army and so across the site, there were military trenches dug by the Australian, Gary, and we have a report that was sent back ultimately to the from an Australian officer who said that during digging trenches, we discovered Roman mosaics. So it was well known that there was a site there. There was an exploratory David during the nineteen ninety s by Soviet archaeologists. But we were, but this is the first time that the site has been systematically studied in excavated, what had been found that really alerted archaeologist thinking, wait a minute. The be something pretty. So they can about twenty sixteen directors for the glance project stiffen poplars each from the institute of archaeology and Bill Reid and professor Richard miles from Sydney University. So Richard is great. Archaeologist had mainly done a lot of his work in North Africa. But was looking for new archaeological sign this took into Serbia in in twenty sixteen and Stephan took him to his failed and they walked across the field. And Richard will tell you that as he walked across the field. He could feel the his going up on the back of his neck because. It's the sort of things that you can even find on the surface indicate that this is an important site, and in particular, their choices pieces of building material every now, and then you get little bits and pieces of very expensive marble. So this beautiful green serpentine marble Saudi yellowy yellowy cream will white marble, and they even found a couple of paces of Paul Frey. That's no, this is really significant poor free is an enormously hard type of granite that. In the light Roman empire was only mind at a particular site in Egypt, and when you have poor Frey, you have an imperial structure because Paul Frey was an imperial monopoly in the in the light rhyming impart, some listeners might know, some very famous statues of tetrarchy of Diocletian and Maxine for example. One in Venice, it's carved from this purple stone because the color of red being that the color of VM par or color of improves. So that you know to wear a purple cloak would indicate that you were trying to be an imprint and would get killed. So. So when you have purple stone, you have some sort of poop red poor for you have an imperial structure. So finding those pieces on the ground indicated that this was a very prestigious probably imperial side. We also have a literary reference so Maximilian. We know that Mexcian built a palace for his parents in a field outside summum never reason. He did that is again, we're talking about religion being used to boost legitimacy building structures were as well. So all of these guys who come from very simple peasant bet grounds tended to try to boost their prestige by advertising the greatness of their origins by building palaces imperial structures, and is is various of examples of these Diocletian Palestine split is one at gums agrout in Serbia the in progress built a big complex called Felix Ramona. So this is fairly common. And we think the site is way Mexcian boosted his prestige. Well, that's gonna make all the I he'll just and ancient historians pretty excited you on your nine historian knock eulogised you allowed to d. What tends to happen is. They point me somewhere. Give me a shovel and go yet that up. I'm certainly knock eulogists I got some knowledge of particular types of artifacts. But. I certainly defer to my colleagues like Richard and stiffen seriously. Like, you stand above the soil with a shovel view. And you scared that you're gonna break something or no, I'm not I'm scared. Get shouted at by the. Eulogists get it wrong. But no in twenty seventeen when we broke the ground twenty seventeen we would really trying to get some sort of sense of the side. So we did quite a lot of digging. And I loved every minute of I I'm so physical exercise, but to be in this field in sort of high thirty degrees in the middle of summer in Serbia wielding shovel and just doing it all day. It was fantastic and gradually sort of. Inoculate g you work from what's known to be unknown tend to sort of work from where we could see an exposed section of wall. And so on. But you know, I do what I'm told the and the Bianchi oldest's have any kind of interpretations or ideas, give you about the side or really things that have come from my archaeological colleagues what sort of things did you find have you found so far like oh. So we were at the moment is what do we know about this side? We know that it's enormous. And so we have a very large structure, which is a light, Raymond structure. Now, we know that because of a type of pottery find associated with it with the type of building materials. Things like the the sailing materials, roof tiles, walls, and particularly from mosaics. So one of the things that's very exciting about this site is that we have already found a couple of rooms with mosaics in them, and the mosaics are very very similar in style to mosaics we find in the imperial palace with insomnia m- INSERM skinny triggered. So so we've got a very prestigious building using the same sort of Mateen imperial palace, decorative mosaics or are they in patent? What do they look very geometric patterns, which is much more common for mosaics in this part of Serbia from the late Roman impasse. Sometimes you get depictions of figures, but it's more common to get designs into interlacing knots. Something called a Solomon's not something we call Solomon. Archaeologist. Call Solomon's not. So the to find those sort of designs, and this particular room that we've we've discovered within this palace complex. It's almost like a patent book of designs all sorts of different designs within we haven't finished excavating the room yet. It's it's really big. So some sort of audience chamber, perhaps or something that was a central important part of the the the villa complex so found that what else we know in last season in eighteen Richard. And and benefit McCall. Who's a number strategy? Knock eulogised on the discovered evidence of fortifications. So it looks as though be Bill complex was fortified. Now again, that is strongly suggestive sort of imperial structure. We're getting all these hints the signs appointing that it belonged to an improv would you need to find to definitively say yes this. Mexcian 's palace will high up on my wish list would be part of a poor free statue of impr- that would be nice as a parts of Paul Frey statues of improves from within Sirmium the imperial palace inside the city of Sumio have been found. It'd be nice to get some of those. We we have some fragments of Stecher. You're ready. So we have a really great hand a white marble hand that looked vote was originally holding possibly a club. But more likely it might have been from the statue of denies, it sooner chore. Or ideally something like an inscription would be great house belongs to. Round the back something dedicating it. Do you have a sense of how long the much longer the Degal take use? Well, only in the it's very open ended, and it's gonna take a very long time, which is fantastic. So one of the things that makes this whole project. So exciting interesting is now obviously on gushy about it because it's a Roman site. It's right. It's sort of thing. That's interesting to me. But. It's also of enormous significance. Socially? So this is a Serbian ustralian project. It has enormous support and goodwill from all levels of Serbian industry and government it's bringing together institutions from Sydney grammar school soon. The university museum of Sarim stray leeann embassy, so bringing to give all these experts, and creating a really interesting bubbling cauldron of different personalities and different different sort of expertise that is likely to developing all sorts of in all sorts of directions. So the dig it self will definitely be going as long as I have a career and takes that loan to takes years and years decades to. A in something as large and significant disease. The we also have a great opportunity at this dig because the decide self at isn't inside a town. Okay. So if we go to climate is down the road assume streams, commit tributes. Under streams, commit tributes. There is a Roman town and whenever people deed in their garden. They find fragments of Roman pottery and coins and all sorts of stuff. Yeah. So one of the most important towns in the Roman empire is right under your feet, and this a few sections of that have been excavated, but unfortunately, people leaving top on top of it. But at at the Glatt side, it's a field. There's nothing. Potentially in an ideal world, this sort of vision that that that we have is that one Davis will prove to be a sort of visitor center that something that can actually be developed to showcase the history of the region as something that is lasting and can make a real lasting contribution to the region into the people of the region just to to go back to the logistics of working on that side of the moment. I it snowy. It's winter. It's not being dug up. What happens like Liz aches have been on covered or of a parts of the site win the season of digging his stop for the year. How are they looked after? Well, the the largely they buried their reburied. We bury heartbreaking. So at the end of the season. Think about something. Like, the mosaic mosaic surreal problem. In some ways. We don't want to find them why? Which sounds ridiculous? But you like most accurate projects this is being done. On a very tight budget, and you know, many of us who work on it. Don't get paid at all we're doing because we love it. But to to do something like look after mosaic Causton enormous amount of money, so to uncover mosaic instantly means that it's exposed to all the forces that will destroy it. So usually the mosaics made up of tile Tissera, they become loose. They'll get washed away in rain when this snow and heat it'll expand and contract, you'll get vegetation growing it. So if you just excavated and exposed mosaic, it would it would be destroyed very very rapidly. So we either need finances to look after it properly, and before we have finances, we need to preserve it, which means reburying it. So at the end of the Oculus season of the mosaics covered. With a sort of biotech material, and that's been covered by a great deal of sand. So, you know, going forward if if we have the the sort of vision of this place as a site vet will bring in business bringing scholars and students it's going to require support. And it's going to require people seeing the opportunity to that really liked to. Come to Serbia already exists. If the Roman empire. Subbiah was the heartland of the Roman empire in the light, Raymond period and the Balkans. Generally. So in Serbia can already go on the Roman emperors route, which is a sort of a tourist route that's been defined. And you know, I so excited about this. Because I think that like a well alike. The the metaphor of a mosaic. I feel like we're gradually uncovering a picture here. Which is a picture that involves amazing Roman history. It involves doing some genuine social good for a fairly depressed community because tributaries is is not doing particularly. Well, it's something that does cutting edge occasion. So he's a fantastic pitcher there about, you know, international collaboration and communication between Serbs, and ustralian leans, and all it needs is, you know, time and money to be able to to develop that when you as a high school teacher when you talk to high school kids over there in Serbia out are they aware of this Roman history literally under their fate. Well, it's my particular role in the project is to look for ways of developing the educational program. So the education program is absolutely central and fundamental because fundamentally we excavated a Roman palace. Okay. That could be very exciting to to some people. But you know, you could ask the question will. So what now fast growing up insurance can meet you. It's a this surrounded by Roman past all the time. But like anyone who leaves in an area they can easily take for granted. You know? I drive the Sydney Harbour Bridge every day to to get work. And I take that for granted. If I have a visitor though be really excited visited from overseas for housing. Oh, yes. And sometimes he needs outsiders to help you to realize how amazing and special what you have ease. So so I've been working with. We've colleagues in Serbia to to develop indication programs that will bring in students, particularly from the Gimnasia the academic high school emit metro and help to bring them into the glance project to learn more about history of town, and to you know, to hopefully, make the past part of future because there's enormous untapped possibilities. In this town for things like cultural tourism for heritage tourism zone. Partly tell me when you visit what high school kids think you should be going in seeing in the town what they recommend. Great the way we started off the education program in in July last year in twenty was we had about twenty students from the nozzle. Now. These great kids are fantastic. They're all about sixteen fifteen sixteen seventeen and they turned up really expecting to be lectured at I think. And instead the first thing we did was to say, okay. I'm gonna stray leeann I don't know much about your town. What should I see? So if you were going to show someone around your town, we're not just talking about the Roman history. What is interesting about Stransky? Mitch of it's a why should people come here because often Serbs Serbian students tend to be very proud about where they come from. But don't necessarily. Not that much that way come from. So what did they tell you to go and look how? And so they drew up maps that involved, you know, things like the best Cafod are in town makes the best ice cream or the best coffee to the Roman sites that they knew of that was significant. All of them on their maps had the statue of mangle, it Surin the poulin so mangle it through a particular type of pig that they have in stream. That's it's thirty pig. It's fantastic. Forget the Roman pellets. But you go to see. But Harry p which incidentally is just outside the house. So in a pool sheepdog, so they have this this particular statue. And also the memorial park. So I'm so fascinated by the general idea of general question of how do people live with visible past when you come from a place? That has so much history around you, and you know, we're in the Balkans. This is the land of long memories. So in the middle or insurance can be true. It's there is a memorial park. That is built over the remains of about ten thousand people who killed there in nineteen forty two. And they bodies are all still live is still under his man's is a memorial. And you know, how people relate to a spice like that. Because it's also the ten pack. It's also where you know, kids toboggan in in snow because these pounds are about the only elevated thing in the hall of strip. Yeah. I want to ask about you'll live here in Australia when you not teaching history. I believe you spend a little bit of time with model. Figuring can you reveal that on on national radio just acid, so. I'm very proud of what something I've learned is to wear the badge of node, very very proudly. You know, we don't became a schoolteacher. I deliberately thought, you know, it's really important to model being proud nerd, and I a thread that runs through my life is interesting history expressed through a hobby through things like painting model soldiers using them in strategy games. Something from from you as a kid. Yeah. It's it's it's something that I did when I was in primary school, and I still do today. So and now, you know, it's just become more sophisticated and expensive. So now, I have a wonderful little network of friends we meet every Wednesday night. And you have these people from such diverse backgrounds from all sorts of different work backgrounds. And we get together in a pub and we play games figures. And. The rest of the time. We, you know, we painting them and for maybe very very zinn. I need sort of hobby to to relax my mind to to have something kind of mindless, but absorbing to really focus on as a block is at a particular way to hang out with friends to engage new parallel play. I think. Certainly, I don't know how much to gender. I I think we would definitely going through a real renascent of gaming, whether it's boardgames analog hobbies, if you like games that will bring people together. That don't involve screen so board games are more popular than they've ever been fighers. I have applying games have to ask though, Ellen in in your whole thousands of figuring. I'm guessing do you have fica of Maxine the emperor? Who may or may not have a palace buried under this field in Serbia or been trying really hard to get one. Because I do of course pint light Roman soldiers of figure who I fondly imagined to the mic. Siemian actually took him to to stream skinny trivia last time. I was there and took some photographs of him in different sites around soom, and you know, used human games since and so he's actually being undefeated every game. Since I came back from soom. So I don't think that's a coincidence. It has been fascinating to totally. I wish you all the best for the project and keep his updated because we'll see this a lot more fun. If you find that inscription that proving it's Maximes you need to call conversation straightaway. Thank you would love to come back until you develops my guest on conversations today was Alan Dern who is a history master at Sydney grammar school, and as you can hear passionate ancient historian. We'll put all the links to that product on the conversations website ABC dot net. Dada. You slash conversations and linked to this conversation will be out there shortly as well. I'm Sarah can ski thanks so much for listening. You've been listening to a podcast of conversations with Sarah can ski for more conversations interviews head to the website. I base e dot net dot AU slash conversations. Discover more great ABC podcasts. Live radio and exclusives. On the ABC. Listen up.
Scotland and Serbia Move On
"Welcome into the ESPN NFC studios on Sebastian Salazar. Great to be with you lots to get to in today Joe Paul Pogba. Once again cannot keep Real Madrid's name out of his mouth we will discuss that but since it's an international bracelets start discussing international eight one off matches on Thursday last chance saloon as far as qualifying for next summer's European championships are concerned a breakdown, all the matches. What a of Experts Ian Darke Steve Nicol Yon. Yon Let's start with you Norway two one losers at home to serve what happens. Nothing. No way where. We have a good young generational of hold on with solar for life zero to go round Madrid Santa Fag doing well at Sheffield United. But from pursed minute more or less to the last week equalised three minutes before the end took US inter extra time but I would just keep on our pain relief milinkevich savage. The lots to strike is go to he came on as a sub metro from Fulham could have full gold. It was just terrible we're out and we're not even we're not even close on that feeds bit sad because it's young generation no, if you haven't been. At the championship with twenty years and we're not thinking close is very disappointed and that's the report from Norway Rainy Norway today in all means of it works. You mentioned young players. Xiang odaguard. Holland. Sorel off I. What was it in this match where they inexperienced? It's show where they naive because you look like the team that was at home playing the win not the other way around. Exactly, we knew when when we got this game in March, we had a home and bondage. Of course, that could be an unbalanced job, a full little stadium today you have two hundred people who he could take all kinds of rules because of Covid, of course but we it was just like voice against men. I. Mean. So I got a toll, this team they. told his team in Europe. I'm they look so strong and we just we just one that we can have one shot that Gold Ailing Hall anew scoring for fun in indulged. One chance at at. Colin of we would just take apart today. Unfortunately, we had so much hope for this generation we were so a for this nationally because the gables an extra chance we knew that if we beat Serbia that final would be acs TV taking the winner of Scotland and Israel, but we weren't good enough. So there's nothing that is nothing to hold for. Saad Saad Day from widget pupil again. I. Know It's not the match that you were specifically focused on, but it is a sad day not just for Norwegian football. But for anybody who wants to watch this tournament next summer, it's going to be a big loss not to have erling Haaland in it isn't it? Yeah it really is because he would have been one of the superstars I. Think of the European Championships I do feel sorry via do feel sorry the new away but that's the way it goes sometimes they had that John's tonight they had home advantage and they couldn't make it count. So it's a heartbreaker. Uh, very very pleased. Say for Scotland, is offered to say that but I was To See Kenny Maclean coming forward to the laws penalty with a smile on his face imagine that this penalty you've got to put it in the back of that. He had a smile stuck it in the back of the net and Scotland we'll play Serbia which is a difficult one away from home speaking of smiles look at Steve Nicol that smile as is quite why go ahead Steve E. Hold on. That was one he wants Myelin. Can Cute. Can He? Assigned to watch the Scotland match and I think like ten minutes in you texted our poster and said I, hope we're not doing highlights because nobody is scoring I don't know if you have a crystal ball there in the background on the left or maybe it's the right of your shot. How'd you know they weren't going to score either? Because through so it should be. I mean very early this this had no retinal over, and of course, unfortunately, I was wrong. So we had to go through minutes. and then we to have extra time. And finally and apparently the goal is to Meka. Save because neither of them made one save June the ninety minutes or the team you know there was there was a child ahead MC Tommy which he shoulda schooled that was Empha- Scotland. And then. And Israel all was snatched it with With with an. Offer of ghetto. Nando a wicked cross and the last the last kick to give. Scholars through an end of the day all Matzos as a result and whether you go through ninety minutes or extra time or penalties. Nobody. Cares Ho bod or how early played. All the kid as you through and we've got a big game against the selves. All right. Then let's look ahead to that match against Serbia a you mentioned not many chances for Scotland. Zero shots on goal today can they do better against the Serbs can do any wolf? Let's be honest. The problem is they have absolutely no invention or imagination and the team. You know T- today much again from US Vela was the guy trying to play the posses the ball in the box. When has game? Aston Villa is all about him getting in the bulks. So that can tell you what's going as far as creating. CIANCI's no dangerous said PC's. But. That's that's their hope. Listen it's a one. Thousand. Nine hundred Johns against the Serbs to try and produce something again whether it's lucky or whether it's actually grip performance again, nobody really cares. About getting through, but I'm really figuring well account for your whole the beat themselves they look to me as far too much experiencing gale. And move a one gin. Yawn. You saw just how good Serbia can be you give Scotland any chance Well. Steve Talking to him down I remember when I played against him hundred years ago when I qualify for the Italy World Cup on Scotland's still got a chance to to be out bed. Nag I saw. A very good as Stevie said they got all they know all the TWICKENHAM book they're very experienced and have a look at their squad. There are so many good players. It's always for fans who don't know international football very well, have a look at the clubs they're playing these IX's is inter. His last show is over the place Yovich did around three strike it was on the bench cost each degrade left player left midfield player for Frankford, he was injured. So yes, the Serbs would be great great favorites but but is this one a game on the outside the role has been done before but the Serbs at home would be great favorites. Scotland. Then we'll have to wait until November twelfth to punch their ticket. We know England is already headed to next summer's European Championships they faced Wales. Three nothing winners can a friendly today what was your big takeaway for most of the last couple of weeks and we talk southgate squad we talk off the field would you make the onfield performance? it's hard to draw too many conclusions onus they picked a very young team without fifty four caps between them, but they did the job and I think there was some useful takeouts from Dominic Calvet Lewin scored on his debut with a hat to his Wonderful scoring straight with him. Well, he looks good deputy of Harry Kane gets injured in hurricane does get injured designate from time to time. So I think Calvin Lou won't make the squad Look full of crop these schools in the bicycle as well. Connectivity is now stored in the league. Asked him wonders defend he even scored as well with. This all that any strike would have been proud of but wells didn't half. Gareth Bale. They didn't have our Ramsey. So you know it's not one really the you want to be drawing massive conclusions from a satisfactory night. Really. But you'll find out more about England Belgium over the weekend and one English player you didn't touch on Nick. Pope. How real close do you think the competition is between he and Jordan Pickford? Jerry Class I'd say because Jordan picked is going through a really shaky period I can't with that game against. Brighton the weekend he made another bad air and that's the latest in the series. He's never let England down and he's probably better with these freight. Then Nick Pope. But I think you know pope just exuded a bit more Arab authorities. So that's that's a big decision vic Gareth Southgate to make. As we talk about South Squad. There's all the issues going on as I mentioned off the field he had players who broke Kobe protocols. We've seen it prior we have the issues with Harry Maguire just straight up the this England squad have a discipline problem. I think it does. And it goes back as well. You can think of the the the bus stop between Raheem Sterling and Joe Gomez if you want to go further into the pastor. Gareth. Southgate trying to put the lid on it and trying to say the right things. But these guys don't seem to be getting the message and they've got to be taught to pretty harsh lesson. Okay. He's he's left the capital of them out of out of the squad and says, they're young they're learn. But you know it's a problem and it comes spread discontent and instability in the squad if he's not careful out, then gentlemen thank you very much plenty more still to go on the road next summer's European Championships. Let's take a look. At. Path beat Slovakia beating Ireland in penalties Northern Ireland Bosnia in penalties as well. So they'll meet for the final spot next summer's tournament meanwhile in path a Iceland over Romania Hungary beating Bulgaria Iceland and Hungary and then down Pat the Georgia tops Belarus North Macedonia beats coast of us at Georgia North Macedonia in the playoff final. FCC full highlights from all those games. Make sure to such dvr's for tonight eleven PM Eastern Time on ESPN two four highlights from all eight elimination matches. GEICO presents monster counseling. Dracula, tell me how you're feeling. No one understands how lonely these no one will even let me into their house I knock knock but they ignore me. What else I look in the mirror. Don't even see myself anymore if you don't see yourself clearly, can you really expect others to I'm having a breakthrough it's not easy to be a vampire, but with GEICO, it's super easy to switch and save hundreds on your car insurance GEICO presents monster. Counseling Dracula tell me how you're feeling. No one understands how lonely these no one will even let me into their house I knock knock but they ignore me. What else? I look in the mirror. Surface don't even see myself anymore if you don't see yourself clearly, can you really expect others to I'm having a breakthrough? It's not easy to be a vampire, but with GEICO, it's super easy to switch and save hundreds on your car insurance. has another year left on his contract to Manchester United Decides to pick up their club option but he's already looking ahead towards the future is what he had to say while away on international duty with France I haven't spoken with Edward about an extension or anything. I'm just thinking about coming back strong physically and mentally input on great performances for my club continued Saddam we all heard some things have been said, what do you want me to say? Yes, all the players would like. To play around Madrid one day it could be a dream. It is a dream for me why not one day like I have said I am at Manchester United and I love my club I am enjoying it and I wanted to do everything I can to bring this club back where it belongs full article on from our Julian Ron on our website for more we welcome back Stevie Yawn and yon before we went to tape, you said I want per shot at this Pogba. Yes I would like to vote a great tweet from. In international with big ties, Call Yan fueled June twenty, nine hundred and I put my glasses song because we're say situation I wrote. Paul Pogba wants a new challenge. Well, I give him some lawn try to become a leader to jump just act as world champion outside the do with underage three Manchester United back amongst the best in in England, four justify GIO current rage before demanding more money. That's my that's why I wanted to I show. Up and. Do something on a pitch. Guy Janaka if you're not the only one upset, there's a section of Manchester United fans that are very obviously upset about this as well. Stevie played for big club before do they have the right to be? I I don't understand why players are so ship why You don't have to call somebody asks you a question. You don't have the answer, and if you're gonNA answer all you see as I'm doing my very best and Manchester United and that's only thing I'm thinking about and that's the end of story but I think it tells you more about Paul Pogba listen I I've actually been sticking up for for a long time probably the first couple years of his time. Manchester United. But is really really cleared one of those questions. Yom was posing there about being a leader. This guy has absolutely zero leadership on them and you can tell because you've venter's amongst great players. He was great. And what is in France amongst great players for France? He's great. But when he united amongst players that that needs some guidance, some leadership and and. And needs some the bring them along. He can't do because he's only interested in doing has thing. And the first things not working then he's contributed nothing so. Listen. I think he's showing his to call US eight change in. No. Real Madrid well, unless unless to go back to the GALACTICO, then you don't want. Paul Pogba because he's not going to help you. and I wonder what's your reaction? Not The first time we've heard openly flirt with real? Madrid. Getting tiresome as his agent or him, and there's an old line from a song isn't there? You say it best when you say nothing until Is. Right he should have just said, no comment I'm just concentrating on trying to get Manchester United out of that current problems. This is the last thing matches united need. After this shambolic start they've had the season is for poker to be even talking about Royale Madrid just bat the question away get back to work when you get back to Manchester United and try to get Manchester United back on the Right, track again pop was made this big money movies matches John Farrell time yet, and so far really apart from the odd cameo, he hasn't cut it speaking of articles on our website Mark Ogden reporting that all are going to start didn't get a single one of his quote priority targets during the rate latest transfer window. Yawn you have some good sources there at Manchester United, what are they telling you? Well I think now when we see all the Arctic is after the transplant Weiner places is all about owning this story because the Manchester. United, fans furious because it didn't strength. Then really this what would come in and do much better and for all Jadon Sancho was the main target for Laguna soldier and it wasn't even on the table they knew for three months the prize in new new for one month the folded twin tenth of August deadline that it wouldn't get. Him on his just sad as seeing what I got out of his transfer window I think that all always pug, all the transfer window activity. We know one thing that week is part in that kind of chain is manager and you can you can criticize Laguna soldier for a lot but it trusting players, es complementing layers maybe sometimes too much i. decide thing is that the first one that will go will be the managers that was a sad transfer window from Manchester United. They would have loved to have an exciting place Jadon Sancho in there because at the moment that are not many Manchester. United. Players who stand up for the manager all the club all for themselves. Stevie. Longshot to ask if you have any sympathy for anyone at Manchester United. But you've been in the managers shoes I remember you talking about on this show before you've been at a point season where you knew the team wasn't any good and you couldn't make it. Any better. Do you at least feel some type of sympathy for GonNa Shari's after not getting any of the players that he reportedly wanted? Yeah. From coaches point of view one, hundred percent of course too. Because it sometimes feels as you're, you're just you're swimming against the tide you know I'm in and and you're getting nowhere not seems to be right now what Manchester Eighty two during the swimming against the tide the getting nowhere. And the fan and the Goldbach backwards and Clearly all these left to to show. The players that he has and the truth of the Matas he hasn't been able to do it with the players he's got right now. So with the addition Cavani as anything going to change I don't see. So from coaches point. Toffees Georgia's but really. Sympathy for Manchester United Manager for me speaking. Been Along Day What about you? Is it fair to ask more of soaks jar or should the criticism as it has been from some corners Ba- focused more on on Ed Woodward John Says. It's going to be all his job that's on the line, but clearly the issues year on deeper. The whole story Manchester United in the transfer market has been going on Everson. Sir Alex Ferguson. Left the club. You think back to the window at a were left buying Marouane Fellaini the last moment they've spent three, hundred and seventy-five. Pounds on defenders since Alex. left and very few of them have come off I. Don't think there's any joined up thinking going on there. They've ended up with Cavani who's been a great striker, but he's thirty three now is he going to do it for Manchester? United. Does that mean that Mason Greenwood is not gonNA play they. Don't event. Debate. From. Platte hasn't started yet. In the Premier League they have to go and get another defendant in night on side Harry Maguire with all that money center is a great flair lovely class. Yes if they wanted to pay the money, go and get him but the priority I think was the defense and if they could get that right match, it could be in some serious business. It's been a bad stuff. Remember last season they finished with twenty points out of twenty seven stormed into into play. So I've been very worried about the way the team blows hot and cold under Ghana. So Charlotte is hard to work out what's really going on there, Edison? Cavani. Maybe now your favorite signing. Ian. But he did manage to crack mark. OGDEN's top ten signings of this premier league transfer window. Let's take a look at that list. Now, number one on it Tiago log onto the number two. Hamas. Other Cavani said number four team verner in their number six ahead of him number five part moving to arsenal. Yawn. As we look at this list, you got knee issues with it. Well, I think bobby must be based on his Palmer part of his career because he's been out for a while. It could be good for Manchester United for all the young kids have a role model in there is one strike is he's been doing it before. As a great signing I think that mark is being a bit influence onto post games. The boys have played Jiaguo came on did marvelous? I've been this harverson there because I think in the long term that is a great signing fall for Manchester United, I think it's too early to say who would be that would be the best players in the. I think this looks okay. There is a lot of players coming into that. We don't know a lot about it signs sometimes on as Dan Never honest. Anyway if a player is linked to them from Spain, literally they have no clue who Andy Way at just say that the club needs to get that player. I know HAMAS number two on this list. But if we're going off immediate impact, what we've seen so far he'd have to be number one, right I think he's really spring could some star Dostam Goodison Park? I saw them. At the night against Bryant Nevis trip, he's got a couple of goals. He sets up another one and he's just become a spot blog at the club. I mean, I'm interested to see that. Story goes is wonderful alien. It's almost like a reminder of times at Everton who used to be Well, they WANNA, a couple of times in the one, thousand, nine hundred not too much has happened for them in more recent times. So I think it's great to see him on less agree with that I think Tiago at number one yet what? I think Ruben Diaz might be an important signing could of made the top ten for Manchester City. He might go some way to solving around menu defensive issues will in addition Mark Ogden's list. Here's a list of notable transportation justice. The season starting you've got to remember when a season starts. Of course, we put our pundits on the spot they have to make their premier league predictions are among the pundits who made their predictions one Ian. Dark at Manchester United Finishing second is that right? Ian This is your one chance you wanNA take it back. You want to make any changes. No now, changes have only played three games soap other thirty five to go They were playing very well in the back into last season inspired by Bruno Fernandez there is a of a shop was that at the moment I do think they'll sit and they'll improved greatly Stevie, you had Manchester United. In third you've dropped them to fifth you move spurs into the top or why we'll do you want me to start with. The spouse I mean nate it. You know an Indian was was talking about all the great run into the top four but that was after after. Had completely discovered them and the, and there were just a left alone to run results together when the pressure has been on the never produced and right now they're struggling big time and I'm not quite sure how. The site of Caveney and Cavani only much makes any difference. So that is why knocked him The adult spas end because. The the is they've made made a huge impact on them the two fullbacks regular Dorothy. You talk about an upgrade or on Aulia Davis I mean that's like. Taken. Click taking Trent Alexander and robots, and we in Putnam expose I mean. Just. Just absolutely huge science and the one that surprised me as the Hoi Pat one from Southampton. I thought why is it bringing back because I wasn't to shoot about about tell you what? And a game. Where you can't really talk a lot much. He's producing the best deal and they're so Cohen, he wakes dead. Well, but let's be honest if I'm upset midfielder don't want to play against Hoiberg are highly winks. I don't went into do we Hali bag? I'll play against wings all day. So then you got a bill to that. I mean so. SPAS. One hundred percent of a great window the great result of the weekend and right now I've been I've been looks rosy. So you have given me a do over going to take advantage over I'm going to take on united to all four and put. Yon It's only a few games. Stevie says he's seen enough to drop spur united out of the top four. Have you. Know what happens but I think that Stephen Nickel Nickel's it makes he makes a good case for himself by me. He's seeing a lot of law and order serious in in the USA I. Think he's doing well bowl to them but I. I was stick to it because I think the masters nights following that they will at the end of the last season, but it looked tired at the end of the season. So if I should do some take Manchester United out. But I'm not sure about the top two is quite easy because what I think Liverpool is done so well, and I think that is the main thing Liverpool I look for what kind of need they happen the team and then the players and then the rock. Clubs would just look for new players and I think we would y'all I'm geog will they have done very well for himself the coming in from the city will do them well, but I, still think livable will get down I'm I mean everybody saying always so great that Chelsea get a new goal amended I'm not over convinced by Mandy but I'm sticking to it. I'm, I won't change I wanted to change the just stick to your case just protect you just protect the mom you defending. stevie curious. Just yes. No. If Manchester United had gotten the supposed priority targets for all. Would you have kept them in the top four or are you moving them down based on what you've seen and what you've said consistently on this show, which is you don't rate all as a manager. Said this a book question. If. You guys targets then I'll be thinking. Completely differently. Yeah. Absolutely. There's no. In the top to the top because you talk about every test every time we you chance. Are you moving them up. About thinking about it you're thinking about, what are you saying that? These guy I don't know whether they quite enough squawk depth to sustain it but they're interesting very much. You can. I think on it some more we've got extra time coming up. This is the trio that's back. We take your questions and if you ever miss it, check it out on the ESPN AFC YouTube channel. The week marks the sixth Annual Kpmg Women's Pga Championship at Irani Golf. Club October eighth to the eleventh in Newtown Square Pennsylvania as the first ever partnership between the LPGA Tour PJ of America and KPMG KPMG Women's PGA. Championship brings together the best LPGA players from around the world to compete for one of the most coveted major championships in Gaul competing on championship caliber courses. The Kpmg Women's Pga Championship has elevated the women's game to new heights and. Puts the LPGA in the national spotlight and the KPMG Women's Leadership Summit at the week of the championship invest in rising women's leaders aspiring to reach the C. Suite by providing thoughtful content tools and networking opportunities together they serve as catalysts to empower women both on and off the golf course KPMG continuing its commitment to the next generation of women, leaders and proud sponsor of the KPMG PGA Championship to learn more visit kpmg, Dot Com, slash women's leadership. and. Of course, don't Miss Tomorrow, show shock his Don Hutchison Julian Laurent all on the schedule. So is the much anticipated return of shockers power rankings cannot wait. Part, before we get out of here, one more bit of news DC united late, this afternoon announcing that they have relieved Ben Olsen of his head coaching. Olsen had been the longest tenured head coach in major league soccer had been with united since two thousand and ten, and it's been reported that he will remain with the organization in some roll. All right. That's it for this edition of ESPN NFC coming up it's extra time with the Dr Stevie. Nickel. Off Your Talk Hey there everybody. Welcome to this edition of ESPN extra time. We've got your questions on twitter and we have just the crew to answer them up your Ian Dr and Steve Nicol with guys. Thanks for the time I question for Stevie Yon ever physically or mentally exhausted in the middle of the season. If so how did you cope with this while also trying to get back as soon as possible Yang You I. was I ever tired playing in England the Yes. I was I came from Australia when I have a great great Christmas period where we didn't play full I. Mean we went somewhere. In the holiday but I think we did well. I look after myself I. Think had you should go to Steven because I think that he he drunk something else than me I only have war. Wait a second way to say you're talking about going on holiday and how that affects you and now you're going to point the finger at Steve Nicol. It's all right Steve. How did you coke? Absolutely fly in. The season, he couldn't. How can you be? How can you be exhausted halfway through the season? Not Possible when you hit the hall when you? I would I would see the last. Probably the last month of the season. You know because if you've done because depend on, you don't well and you you don't. Well. I mean, you're talking about we're talking about the league. You know the European Cup Fa Cup and of course, then we had the League Cup and all of these tournaments it was the boss team not know today will play another team entirely so I we probably had the score, of fourteen. Fifteen. So by the end of the season, I remember six hours, shots of the. Cup. But in the middle of the season. Of you can't at least. The heat or anything you know we went well but but I, think I gotTA I. GotTa be saying sometimes there is a difference because, Steve? Played. For the best team in England about if you have to go to bury if you have to go to burry seventy th of January in mind is three degrees is easy to get tired just walking down to bus. It's easier time as well. Yeah. I'm having to watch games in. Up until the traveling, I can tell you as. I'm sure you'RE GONNA. Get a lot of sympathy from this panel there in and who do you think's cores more this season Gareth, Bale. Good one Gareth Baylor Edison Cavani. He's GonNa make the biggest impact on a score more goals probably, Cavani. I think in terms of scoring goals if he gets enough gametime Manchester. Who make the biggest impact? If he's staying spent Gareth Bale Cuckney, a sensation couldn't eat if you've got him. Cain Song is the front three, the Tottenham Hotspur that's a game changer, stevie Valer or Cavani who gets more goals. Office Cavani going to play. Or questions I mean. Because see they should be either. Marcial Russia to the middle. So if we're talking about pregnancy league goals I would I would suggest got bill. Because there's no way play bail in the League and the company. So. I'll just not shooting Kevin is going to get that many games. So I'll go for Bail Yon. Cavani. Bail. We'll go for bail because I think that in time social media I mean the be make an unpopular thing because it's so easy to criticize Gareth vaguely had a fantastic time with Real Madrid. Been Sinden Saddam set you don't want to play I need don't care and will sitting there doing all kind of body language planning goals. But if you look at his record realm is excellent. If you look at his record Wales, he's been excellent I. He was very well Tottenham. Hotspur's. Our next question comes from electro vibes. ESPN view think lack of crowd support may affect teams such as Liverpool in the Premier League. Already, starting to these weird results. Out. The Wild weekend that we've just had beginning to wonder whether they intensity and concentration is quite. For the players I think they went through a period where they they got used to it. are used to, but now I wonder whether they not consciously but unconsciously the players switching off a little bit. So yeah I think it is starting to to affect things a little. Yeah. Stevie Ian Mentions all the weird results on the list of wise and I've seen a lot explanations where does the empty stadium factor in? Fact. You used a good example of Liverpool because no question when you put for Liverpool in front of. Of the call up and then on an on field when it's packed. As, good a team as you might be at lifts. Absolutely Alicia on the percent and the lifts you what did it do to the opposition? So you've got a team come into play. A team in Liverpool through and the Ron right after tastic and then they've got the atmosphere to deal with as well. Sure. One hundred percent know people in the stadium. Definitely affects lakes that live a pill. And definitely affects the underdogs because I think with no op Misfield but just not quite as intimidated. Yod. Or Spurs who will finish higher in the premier league this season. Some weeks ago I thought that San Marina was gone does he was so not modern anymore that he can't talk to young players that he comes great something going forward. It seems that he find found more balanced knows if he can keep his players fence and song and Kane and always drug some. Extra play games. I think he was new bested Everson but I had Howard Kendall at Sheffield united detect. Any told me about the great times at Everton I love to see up there. At, great great history of the Club on, I love to have them there. But I see to them being ahead of them in the tables evolved associates games in the primarily, an you agree spurs to finish ahead of Aten. Yeah I. Think. So I think every time we're gonNA have a really good season this year they went to college. You. WanNa talk ever think we'll finish. Come on man we just backpedal here nonstop. Alright y'all stevie could you we just had this could you describe the best international break that you guys ever had gone? What was that international break? Into Knots Berry, a break national break but some players to travel somewhere unfortunately enough to pleasure to play for my country to every international FRAC-, I was away playing for Norway on for an allegiance. The biggest thing is play. Championships is a good night to say now that we qualified for U. S. nine hundred foals that I was the best international freight. Yes you did and who was the goalie that stopped shot at. RFK. Stadium. Pass Rights Leeann. Campos the hold press conference selects two thousand Mexican journalists they they came. What you think about how to get campus all the time all the time what did you do? Twenty minutes saved Foley from me. He was a good goal for an I was colorful of great propagate kind of goalkeeper SC was all right Stevie. Could you describe your best ever international break? In question. Because well, we didn't have a break we just. We met up on a Sunday. Go on a plane on a Monday. Pleads on Wednesday and flew home Wednesday night. Regardless of the opposition. Somewhere in. Europe. So. What was the best hotel. Over. What was it was the best Kelly. Any of them. So. Good celebrations. Eligible I'll I'll. I'll tell. I'll tell you it's principle I'll tell you the most interesting one. The most intensive one was with the Scottish under twenty one. When we went and played the East Germany. So to go behind Diane cotton time when it was still up. Was was a strange thing you know. A guy called Roy Keane and I decided we go and get some toys for the kids just to bring home. We're walking down the street and we couldn't find a toy show or anything remotely but sold in and close to what look like toys. BE WE'LL WALK THE ROAD in Roy onto instead of you notice something was like wait talking about they went. Nobody's talking on the street. And he was right with. Those plenty of people walking around, but nobody was speaking. And then of course they went or by the way she that guy. Behind us, he's this century leftover tell to out the old. So that was. That was the most interesting one. Always say security detail when it comes to Stevie Andrew Ask who are the guys early favorites to win the euros next summer Yawn I know this is particularly raw for you today who you take it. Not Germany looks terrible at the moment I mean, they haven't won in twenty, twenty, three games, no more or less in a row they'd be leading an adroit had a draw as Turkey scandalous how the play at moments it won't be Germany on except Germany's would be the usual suspects I think scoured south get get a young kids a bit more discipline of the page that he got a great set. Of Young players that can do well for them on you have of course, the rest of them like Spain needs to Lee. I'm so on and so on. So usual suspects minus Germany. Ian Do you want to make pick or just named like half the field. Note I'm GonNa make you pick and I'll say. Portugal to retain. Wabi. Now had four years ago when they want it and Cristiano. Renaldo is still fit and firing by the looks of things and still scoring goals and you'll go Rhino Fernandez and Silvery Ruben Diaz in defense i. think that very, very live outside as loving get in dangerous pick alright with news coming in to beef and light replace throw INS with kicks. We want Steve's opinion on what he thinks about it and especially, what would it mean for Liverpool's throwing coach? It would be made redundant. Lawsuits. Have you don't take through that was the point. You will be thrown out. He would be thrown contract. All the. Much I anybody. Densest stupid. Know surely knocking what happens when you've run chalk out of the equation? But you have the wrong people who make the decisions you have. This old cliche. But you see by the handball rule, you need these people out to the office and you need some football players like to deuce four politics because the governing bodies are filled up with people have no clue about that that way of football on this humble rule I mean that is the top of the iceberg. So we you take away the throw away. So we do that every kind of throw in should be setting up players up front in a box. We're going to throw in a bowl with like where like a long throw. That will be so boring. Please gets a Tiso. Yon. I know that we like to complain here on this show. But if you look at the list of people that are making these rules are almost all attached to the game in some way and most of the over former players by go. No? No, that's wrong. Wrong WHO MAKES THOSE RULES? Then I shackle was on the panel for years. They don't have nothing to say just to make these high guys who are lawyers the work is for politics going to stop big coming seriously because decision magazines, all politics are most lawyers while sending their and they using former fruitfulness suggests that cover up like make off so that nothing to say if fruitful would make the decision to handle will never be like today Vara will never be like this today, it would be different. So this lawyers doing this lawyer. Lawyers the lawyers getting your set I think that's next. Question might as well. We`ll Get. Sacked before, Christmas. John. A I mean. I don't think would would like to get him fired because I think he's very happy with. That kind of manager they're a former player that kind of don't make too many public demands but we know that managers there live and die of the results underdone. It's nothing to do with the management of the board or the owners of Manchester United that will be all the environment around him that signs that the journalists onto feather some managers around now there are. Happy Author. No fans in the crowd because they start booing on things like that. So thera but I I think he will survive. Christmas, I. think that was it will turn it around an older unit soldiers being in his time as Manchester. United manager when when he's going down there his always result and turns it around on a think he will do it again. Before I, ask you the question and let me go over their next few matches in ligue. Got Newcastle PSG in champions. Chelsea Leipzig Arsenal a shock here in champions Everton. Pretty stiff run coming up. Do you think you'll make it to Christmas? Yeah I think if you put me in a cold and make me make a decision about that. Yes, you will. But I, do think he needs results fast at the moment. So hopefully, they'll be able to recover after the international break I think they will. But that is a tough Champions League draw now you read it out. stevie any thoughts will always survive to the next season to the next year. The next season. I mean. It's just GonNa be a continuation of what the position, the first four games basically for that to happen you know they would gets rid of him as if he is absolutely one hundred percent no choice because one hundred percent. Agree we young? Some to have all either you know other monies would be. Bashing the door done and was doubled down. Screaming I'm good album by the throat the. To. Help them all. He's not GonNa do that and I think that's shoots. Until. I would have to be an almighty crash. For them to decide before Christmas. Hi Gentlemen thank you very much. That's all we've got today's edition of extra time. Make sure to catch us on tomorrow's show. The boys will be back. I will cover all things from around the world of football.
Finding Darko Milicic: Life After His NBA Bust
"Hates Brian Winters of the jump with the ESPN daily? You can wake up to the best story. You'll hear all day twenty minutes a day five days a week you get an inside look at the most interesting stories at ESPN is told. By the top reporters insiders on the planet the Breaking News Sports Center with the deep dive. Storytelling of thirty for thirty. Today's episode was one. I thought our listeners. What especially enjoy so. Please listen to subscribe to the ESPN DAILY. Wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Sam what made you decide to write about. Darko Milicic in the first place. When you do features about lots of different kinds of subjects you get these ideas from all different types of places. This one actually came from an email. A friend of mine sent to me with a link to a thread on NBA. Read it and that threat had translated a Serbian article about Darko and in that article. It mentioned that since he left the NBA He'd been dabbling in kickboxing. And also become a farmer. I distinctly remember reading that and immediately sort of imagining this giant basketball player in overalls and a hat like old McDonald or something and it seemed like the only way to find out was to go to Serbia when an eighteen year old from Serbia named Darko. Tich selected second overall in the two thousand three NBA draft. He came into the League as a mystery a decade later. He walked away with reputation as one of the most disappointing picks in the history of basketball. So whatever happened to him? Espn SAM borden. Went searching for Darko. Came Away with the story of a man who was much more than punchline. Many Times. It's Thursday April ninth this is espn daily. Sam when people hear the name Darko Milicic which what is the word that comes to mind. Well I think the first word is bust especially if you're an NBA fan. Sam Borden is a senior writer. Espn and the author of our latest ESPN daily. Essential Story Finding Darko. You're right busted the word that I think ninety nine percent of people would associate with him and the one one percent are probably related to dark. How did he become the most infamous? What was it about his story that made him so closely associated with that word. I mean honestly. I think it has everything to do with that. Two thousand three draft with the first pick in the two thousand and three NBA draft the Cleveland Cavaliers. Select Lebron James Detroit Pistons. Picking a fifty one team as a chance to head of very impressive international. Peace Darko. Max's out I believe. He's the best of the bunch with the second pick in the two thousand and three NBA draft the Detroit Pistons. Select Darko Milicic from Serbia. Because it isn't just that Darko averaged six points a game in the NBA. Because there's a lot of guys that have gotten paid a lot of money and then pretty mediocre but it was like this mediocre player. Darko was drafted. Right behind. Lebron and right ahead of guys like Carmelo. Anthony Chris Bosh and Dwayne Wade and so it's the context. I think that makes him a bus. So Sam in two thousand seventeen. You knew this about darker you had his backstory in your mind you go down an NBA. Reddit thread as so many of us have done at one time or another and you decide to go to. Serbia. What was that like? I remember on the flight over there. I was going through my notes and my question lists and kind of thinking about how I was going to approach the story. I was actually kind of nervous. I was thinking of all these different words for bossed. Because I didn't want to like say lost to Darko because I was worried that I was going to offend them. We're making Matt and so like I'm thinking okay. Can I say disappointment? Can I say like struggle? You know things like that. And so then when I get to Serbia and I meet Darko. He shakes my hand and he puts his arm on my shoulder. Like right away. He's like laughing and he says so. This isn't going to be just about how huge bust right two thousand three dressed. So it's one of the strongest songs drafts history. Somebody has to be a bust. I took that I'm Doin'. You guys do any like totally owned did and it was really great and honestly it put me as I think it put the crew that we had with us at ease. He had this real peace about the whole situation. I mean he had emotion about what he went through and he definitely lived through a lot of it as we talk but there was a really fascinating sort of inner comfort that came through fairly quickly and that surprised me so you met up with Darko in his hometown of Novi Sad Serbia but when he was young Sam it was very different. There was part of Slavia which had just gone through a brutal civil war. What was it like for him? Growing up there at that time you know. He grew up in the nineties. His country is being literally ripped. Apart by ethnic wars the United States in its NATO allies are in the middle of a very intense bombing campaign against the Serbs and Yugoslavia. I remember he told us. You spent four days in the basement of his house when he was like seven or eight years old. Just listening to the bombs landing around him destroying his hometown was just with bomb boom houseman shaking and we know it's happening. I know his dad was a soldier. One night the family was watching TV while his dad was away. And the TV newscaster announced the name of the soldiers that had died that day in battle and his dad's name was one of the ones that was read out and he remembers you know looking and seeing his mom just like person years then literally like five minutes later. It turned out. That was a mistake. And the Newscaster said. Oh No actually you know. That was the wrong name and like a month or two later. His Dad came home. He had this crazy up and down in what's going on with my life. Throughout his entire childhood I remember I asked him like. So how did you get into basketball? And he said that it was really it just sort of happened to him. It wasn't that he was interested in basketball. His Dad came back. Everybody was sort of trying to figure out what to do because there was no school going on everything was sort of blown apart by all the bombings and his dad said look. You're really tall. Why don't you try basketball? My FATHER BECAUSE UTAH. Why not try? No I wasn't the one that said. I want to go farther. When I wasn't a he joined the team it turned out he was pretty good and at that point it became basketball was like his purpose. You know it wasn't a passionate was a purpose and it was his way out of this place that was literally falling down around him and it turned out. Darko was really good at basketball. He made the Serbian national team at fourteen then grew into a seven foot tall prospect who was skilled and could run the floor. How did scouts at the time see his game projecting to the NBA? He was a really really hyped. Prospects I mean I remember. We talked to Chad Ford. Who is the draft expert? And to this day I still believe Darko should have been an all star in the NBA. He was he was young he could run. He could shoot. He was a really top rising star in Europe and I think at that time in particular there was such a focus for NBA teams on wanting to find like the next Dirk Nowitzki or the next POW Ghazal. That when they looked at Darko at that time they sort of extrapolate that out and said Oh. Look here's this guy who's going to be the next dirk or the next stock assault. So he never really liked. Bird loved basketball. I mean it sounds like he was kind of going through the motions. He was big and wanted a way out. Do you think that sort of those feelings or lack thereof contributed to his struggles when he finally got to the NBA totally. I mean. I don't see how couldn't have you know. I mean if you if you have a real dream to succeed in a certain area and it gets tough in the beginning. Of course you're going to try to work through it. But that's the thing it wasn't a real dream for Darko. So he gets to Detroit and it's not easy you know in the beginning. It was really fun but then I got the Pistons. Man Season started noticing disasters. They had guys Chauncey billups rip. Hamilton Rasheed Wallace Stan. Wallis Larry Brown who is the coach and he just didn't really have a lot of time for a young kid who didn't know what life was like in the NBA. He wasn't gonNA play. I don't think he was ready. Emotionally mentally physically in any way to play at that level to try to win a championship me and let about the Frizz Day. I really love for him. I felt like he don't like me but after we started working with each other again a reason not to like me more because the way I did things it got to the point where one of the things that Darko said was he would literally root for games to be close. Because he didn't want to go in he knew. Larry Brown didn't WanNa play him so he would look up at the scoreboard in the fourth quarter and kind of be rooting for the other team to make a run to the game win. Get Out of hand. He didn't want to go in and play at all. Oh so mad I get in the game I was. I was out of my mind. You know I was just watching the scores. I was hoping there's GonNa be close game so I don't get you didn't at that point. You didn't even want to play on him. Didn't that team make it to the NBA finals. They won the final year. And if you look back Darko got in with about. I think like thirty seconds or a minute to go in the clinching game. Total garbage time dribbles to the rim get smacked by an opponent and his hand breaks in four places and shot to show Larry Brown the cancer because my hand was shaking me back in the game he said. Go Play Pistons Lakers? I didn't see myself as a part of the team you know. The story said that that we won the championship felt we won the championship. They WanNa Championship. Memi then play. So Darko. The so-called biggest bus ever actually want an NBA championship his rookie year. But it sounds like you already knew at the time it wasn't GonNa work out with the Pistons Right. He realized right away that he wasn't going to be the star so he decided okay. I'll be something else. I'll be the bad boy you know. He started drinking a lot. Come to the Casino and I'm trying to be a bad boy and stuff and all the things that I did that to me. Do you remember what went through your mind? The first time you decided drink before practice there was no before practice. I Drink Almighty and sleep. I just go to practice. I was thinking like this way. I'm going to just be the men you know it was like this. Very stereotypical self-destructive behavior and it started in Detroit and then it kind of went everywhere. He went Orlando Memphis. You know the Knicks Minnesota It was always the same some team. Or General Manager Would Look Darko NC his height and see those videos of him in Serbia. And say. Oh we're going to be the one that's GonNa fix him and then he would go there and it would all fall apart in the you know the circle would just sorta continue talking to his wife. You know she talked about how like the walls and their apartment where literally like different shades of white because he would always come home and like punch the walls and leave holes in the walls and so then like every couple of weeks they would hire you know like a contractor to come in and put drywall and repaint. But you could never find the exact same color white. So the walls of his apartment will be three different shades of white because he would just Ki- well in on them how did his NBA career ultimately come to an end? Then I think ultimately he ended up just sort of getting to the point where he broke. It was Boston two thousand twelve. He played one game for the Celtics. He Air balled the only shot he took shot and he came into Doc rivers office and he said he was done locker. Lewis GOES OUT BACK. Servia on Donna with any went into the locker room and he told his teammates and they thought he was kidding it first but he was serious he was done. The Celtics. Put out this statement. That said that he'd gone home to Serbia. Take care of his sick mother but the truth is he just felt like if he stayed there one more day he might do something like that was gonna hurt himself or hurt somebody else. In a way that he couldn't fix and so that was it he was done and he was going home. Coming up. Darko found in an apple orchard in Serbia that he was never able to find in the NBA. So what happened next? Sam How did he go from being old Darko to the current version of himself? It took some time when he got back kind of cast about trying different things he had a very short and very unsuccessful attempt it becoming a kickboxer which involved him getting beaten super badly in his only fight when aside certainly may I really you know ask myself. Is it really you or you're trying to be something? They're not supposed to be a simple guy who likes simple things and then he found farming he used the NBA money that he made. Which is you know. Fifty two million dollars over ten years and he bought one hundred and twenty five acres near his home town and he created an apple farm and within a year or two. He was selling his fruit all over Europe and I liked to walk through every day. I watched every apply. See how it's producing in apple everything that's close to the tree to the stand. Is I less? You are hearing this at his farm at his property in Serbia. How long were there? We were there for about a week. We were at his house. Who are at the farm. We saw his kid basketball practice and it's interesting juxtaposition because like Novi. Saad is a lovely city. But it's very modest and there are lots of areas in Novi. Sad that look exactly like they did. During the bombings in the ninety S. I mean there are buildings that are burned out. And you know it's all still there And so then when you drive up to this area in the hills where dark owes houses. It's a really strange juxtaposition. Because there's like gates and a guest house an indoor pool and an outdoor pool and a half court for basketball and a trampoline for his kids. You know fifty two million dollars goes a long way in Novi Sad Serbia for sure it sounds like his life is pretty idyllic. It's not bad I mean there's definitely. He spends a lot of time with his kids. He's got three kids. One of them really likes riding horses. Darko apparently also likes riding horses. That was one of the most memorable sort of afternoons that we spent while we were there. We went with him to the Stables Apple. And like you know. He's three hundred pounds easy and he just like hops up on this horse and starts riding around the ring and horses like grown and you can literally hear a struggling Darko up but like apparently he does that quite a bit and goes and rides horses and he says that he finds peace there. What do you think he took to farming in a way that he never took the basketball? I thought about that a lot. I think ultimately the thing that I came up with was that it's about the individuality of it. I think if you look at his career as a basketball player it's largely about leading other people down because like we said it was his dream he was trying to play out this scenario. That obviously got him out of Serbia and gave him this opportunity to make a lot of money but largely. He was trying to live up to everybody else's expectations not his own. And so I think that the thing that he likes most about farming is that it's his the one moment that I spent with him where I really could see like pride on. His face was when he was describing. How successful his apple farm had been in? A lush show is really happy. It was first time that we picked up. I was so here I was walking through something that we produce picking up. We produce this. It's great feeling insane. Because of that success he wants to expand into farming. Cherries and cherries are super hard to farm. Apparently but like he wants that challenge. I mean this is a guy that played in the NBA and he sounds way more excited about cherries than he did about what it was like to play in the NBA finals when you were talking to him about that transition about those failures of his past did you get a sense that he had found some degree of peace because of his success. I think so I think obviously the NBA was a huge disappointment in so many ways but he did a lot of money and that money allowed him to buy this farm and to give his wife and kids alive that he probably never imagined when he's in the basement and his house is getting shelled by rockets. You know and so I don't think necessarily has huge regrets about what happened because I think he realizes that it allowed him to live the life that he's living right now but I do think it's interesting to see the way that he is a father to his kids when he talks to his kids about the NBA. He tells them the bad stuff. You know I'm trying to tell them what not to do because I tell him. Father did don't do it too. I made mistakes so you don't have when I asked him why he said the reason. Is they see the good stuff they see the money they see they can have this life that very few kids in Serbia get to have and so he doesn't want them to think that. Oh Daddy was a huge success. In every way that he was a superstar he wants them to know that it all came at a price and that he looks at those failures as the price that he paid you into Serbia to find out. If Darko was still this tragic sports figure. How did you leave feeling you know I came away? Feeling? I think a little bit conflicted. I think that it is hard to look at a person who makes fifty million dollars in gets a chance to play in the NBA and gets a chance to be part of this amazing circus videos professional basketball and sort of squanders in the way that Darko did and feel like Oh. Gee that's that's that's too bad. I mean what he did. He did to himself in a lot of ways but at the same point. I also feel like you know. Nobody is one dimensional in so I was kind of heartened. I think to find out that there is a second actor Darko so I guess I kind of feel like yes. He was a bust but that doesn't mean that he still is. Who's who knows trying to trying to find out two things. Make me happy horses being an awesome simple stuff proud to be Servian. I love to hear and that's me that's me. Think so much coming up. Remember the sign stealing scandal. This guy does. Here's another story. I want you to go with everything that's happening in. The World and sports are not happening in sports one might assume that if MLB does return in May or June people be so excited they will have mostly forgotten about the sign stealing scandal that rocked the sport before the world imploded. What would it be wrong? Consider for example. A man named Tony Adams. According to a story that ran in the Wall Street Journal recently after seeing a youtube video that purported to contain audio evidence that the Astros were in fact banging on trash cans to cheat. Adams decided to investigate himself. So as jared diamond wrote. He spent much of January fifty hours in total watching eight thousand. Two hundred. Seventy four pitches thrown to Astra's hitters. Drake fifty eight home games in two thousand seventeen. It should be noted here by the way that January was two months before the quarantine restrictions that we all saw a major increase in free time out of logs every pitch where he heard Bain noise per as research. There was some kind of bang sound on one thousand one hundred forty three of them or about fourteen percent then made his own website signed ceiling scandal dot com to publish the data. In addition to the video research he also created spectograph jobs or visual representations of the changes in audio and he broke down the number of pitches with banging by player binding that the most were thrown to Marlon Gonzales. Forty seven hundred thirty nine George Springer hundred thirty eight Carlos Beltran hundred thirty three Alex Bregman hozeal to had the lowest number of Bain pitches throughout twenty four now for the most part Adams data lines up with what. Mlb found. He confirmed the first game. Where the Astros came under suspicion which was what prompted them to reportedly hide the monitors in their dugout. Which was just at. What we've been told is correct. Here's the crazy part. Adams is a lifelong Astros Fan. So why did he do it? Why did he put together this investigation as he told jared diamond? Who wrote the piece I wanted to see for myself? I mean and this has been. Espn daily. I'll talk to you morrow.
British retaliate in Battle of Surabaya - November 10, 1945
"Before the show I have to share the huge savings happening right now at mattress firm. Get King Bet for a Queen Price. Plus a free adjustable base with your qualifying. Purchase the shop now and save up to six hundred dollars on the bed of your dreams. This Day in history class is a production of I. Heart Radio Hi. Everyone and I'm eve and welcome to this day in History Class A podcast. We ripped out a page from the history books. Every day. Today is November tenth. Two Thousand Nineteen. The Day was November tenth. Nineteen forty-five about all broke out in Serbia Indonesia between Indonesia's who supported independence and British and British Indian forces. They though the battle of Serbia resulted in the death of thousands of Indonesians it was an important struggle in the Indonesian National Revolution and is commemorated rated as a day of heroism and Indonesia by the Mid Twentieth Century Indonesia had largely been under Dutch rule for three centuries But during World War Two Japan invaded and occupied the Dutch east indies ending Dutch colonial rule in Indonesia and stirring support for Indonesian nationalism Movement seeking independence from Dutch rule had been active since the early nineteen hundreds but the Japanese encouraged Indonesian independence to gain support in their war war effort and broke down the infrastructure that the Dutch had built in the colony. The Japanese even provided Indonesia's with military training in September of nineteen eighteen forty four. The Prime Minister of Japan promised the Dutch East indies. Its independence in the future after Japan surrendered in World War. Two in August of nineteen forty-five forty-five the Dutch planned on reestablishing their role in Indonesia and British forces were ordered to the area to prepare Indonesia for the return of the debt but but Indonesian nationalists took the chance to proclaim Indonesia's independence and Sukarno and Mohammad. Hatta became president vice president of the new state as news. The independence declaration spread across the Indonesian islands. More people began to support the idea of a revolution. The Japanese had supplied Indonesia. Nationalised with weapons happens. As allied troops moved into Indonesia and the Japanese Dutch and British attempted to assert their dominance a diplomatic and armed struggle ensued on September nineteenth. Nineteen forty five. Dutch internees raised the Dutch flag at the Hotel Yamato in Serbia East Java with the support of the Japanese this inflamed tensions with Indonesian nationalists. Who ripped the blue stripe off of the Dutch flag at the hotel? British troops arrived in their abaya. What they small Dutch military contingent in October aiming to take weapons from the Japanese Indonesians insent Japanese troops back to Japan but the Indonesians did not hand over their weapons? Fighting broke out between Indonesians Dutch and Eurasians on October twenty fifth around six thousand British troops under the command of Brigadier. Aws Alabi be entered Serbia. They were sent in to evacuate European internees and Malibu made an agreement that the British would not ask Indonesian troops to hand over their weapons and that British Indian troops would stay within an eight hundred meter perimeter of the harbor but they occupied key places across their abaya and on October. Twenty seven jakarta-based General. Hawthorne organized an airdrop of leaflets. That demanded Serbia's forces surrender their weapons Indonesia's armed with bamboo Tempur Speier's Molotov cocktails pistols and semiautomatic. Machineguns went up against the British troops in Serbia. The President Vice President and defense minister flew into the city and they negotiated a ceasefire but fighting continued. Anyway and Brigadier Mallaby was killed in the confusion on October thirtieth at that point the British decided to take Serbia back force. They sent in it more forces tanks warships and armed aircraft on November remember ninth. The British weren't the Indonesians that a full-scale assault would commence if they did not surrender the next day the British began to attack the city and over over the next couple of weeks. Thousands of people died were injured or fled the city though the Indonesia resisted they lost the battle still. The Battle of Serbia demonstrated the strength of the Republican resistance in Indonesia and the Indonesian National Revolution ended in nineteen forty nine with the Netherlands. Recognizing recognizing Indonesia's sovereignty over the United States of Indonesia today November tenth is celebrated as Heroes Day in Indonesia. I'm leaves Jeffcoat and hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday feel free to share your thoughts or your innermost feelings with us and with other other listeners on social media at t the eight th podcast or if you WANNA get a little more fancy you can send us an email l. at this day at iheartmedia Dot Com. Thanks for listening. And we'll see you tomorrow For more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Ask or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is Julie Rieger author of the Ghost photographer and Co host of insider's guide to the other side. And I'm Brenda. I may not have written a book. But I mean Julie's book and or the most gifted so I on the planet listen to insiders insider's guide to the other side on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.
Eurovision Showcase on Forest FM (13th Jan 2019)
"Hi It's Jamie progressive's number one number two employee leave a message at the Hey Jamie. It's me Jamie this. Is Your daily Pep Talk. I know it's been rough going ever since people found out about your acapella group mad harmony but you will bounce back. I mean you're the guy always helping people find coverage options with the name your price tool. It should be you giving me the pep talk now. Get out there hit that high note and take mad harmony all the way to nationals this year sorry it was pitchy Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by State Law. Hello and welcome to the Eurovision Sherry case right here on forests F._M.. A very warm welcome my name. Is Karen Hurry Tussey. It's and I'm your host until six P._M.. mm-hmm the greatest tunes from the world's Greg singing competition. The Eurovision Song Cohen Sat Hello Hello this is a mere from France. Hi this is guaranteed. I'm Juanita from San Marino. Hello this is Nicole from Germany. You're listening to Eurovision showcase on Forest F._M.. That's him <music>. The mm-hmm Sir <music> Aww uh-huh it take all that chips represented Sweden in Nineteen eighty-two Eurovision Song contest with Dr Two dr which means day of today yes chips the group which featured Kike Danielson and Elizabeth Andreassen Yeah <hes> coming eighth through sixty seven points Sweden were our role in the Eurovision Song contest <hes> and managed to chart in Belgium. I'm no Wyan Sweden. I quite successfully too so congratulations to them but Elizabeth Dreyer Zone when Song to represent new way <hes> many many times are am <hes> and also Kiki. Don Nelson went onto represent Sweden in Rome right in nineteen eighty. Five with Bob is Sean our good vibrations but in the nineteen ninety-two contest was awesome. It was in aggregate of course course of Ram confused everybody <hes> an all of Europe <hes> where is our goods so that type of stuff and didn't know where it was well johnny foreign it didn't as Terri Rogan would say <hes> that type of thing sorry that Sir Sweden nineteen eighty two great stuff well actually they say very strange thing because Kiki Danielson and it is within three s and try to represents sweet and once again two thousand and two along with Lothair. I'm Berg and their song a only came second in the Swedish Melody Festival and in two thousand and two and their song was cooled who is eighty won't or in Swedish and going to try and pronounce it them. It'd be really bill them. Doodoo Villi how aw right I've had I've sang along to governor is how many times where I think I'm pronouncing it correctly <hes> but but that's just my car generally so here we are here is the hilarious owned by Kiki Betton and unlocked singing them daily. Heil how which who is it you want another schlager legendary song from Melody Festival castlerock Sweden Yeah Sir aw Yeah Ping Pong they did yeah uh-huh Paul Eastern Eh <music> it can do the secrets uh-huh purify you still do now from John. Dome lovers lost its segregation. You see the fees of the goal was in your hand is made we some two years ago I see welcome to the dreams and fighting is makes me feel naked. Luck Katrina Lowest Kern to stake in the needs choice chasing this matter equation all you let me can you please uh-huh <music> the way all <music> the bronzes were fouled with the United Kingdom in Nineteen ninety-four coming tenth Lonely Symphony Symphony in brackets. We will be free close brackets. Yeah what a great so it was. I loved that performance of France's for foul was amazing. Yes really really good stuff good memories of the nineties and the and the Eurovision Song contest it was a good decade for the United Kingdom we came second fifteen amount of times and we oversee one of course in ninety seven victorine around the waves and love shine John Light WanNa tune of course well you all welcome of course to the Eurovision show case listening to a hair on Forest F._m.. We are broadcasting. Every every Sunday from five ought to six P._M.. Here on F._M.. Across East to West Hampshire and the new forest on the south coast of the United Kingdom and you could be listening to US wherever you are in the world wherever you've got Internet connection connection you can go and you might be listening to us on our website forest f._m.. Dot Coat U._k.. Or via the tune in radio APP just search for Forest F._M.. Or of course you can listen back to this show show and many other shows all the way back to two thousand fifteen relief <hes> by going to our facebook and twitter pages and finding the links to our sites. Yes it's quite a long time but you can listen to us uh-huh on spotify of course in any podcast APP just search for the Eurovision showcase on Forest F._m.. Now if you want a dedication request a shoutout she wore some some new talking points to the Shire Ghana some type of reaction here on local radio than you more welcome to we'd like to hear from you via email so you can email us e. x.. C. Showcase at G. Mao oh dot com of course you can tweet us at e._S._e.. Showcase and you can go facebook page and send us a message. If you like it is called the Eurovision showcase easy peasy lemon squeezy beloved to know that you will there tune-in now coming up very soon we have robes random requests and we've got live and kicking in this week's edition of the Eurovision showcase news but the next up we actually have it at occasion and request was not dedication newsradio just request and it's come from our favorite sweet. It's a robot Hallstrom in Gothenburg Sweden Sir in hit the boy so Gluco to you rob. I hope you are well and having a fantastic evening as far as <hes> we can up to well just gone quarter past five here in the U._k.. Sweden so your request as a song from the Cypriot national flying in two thousand and ten now this jetson represented Sweden Soy Sweeten Think Street and on my mind now saw Chris like per se represented Cyprus <hes> three times actually on his arm in Demo- Oh pays nineteen ninety six with more neue mass which is my favorite of his epic and quite rightly deserve twelve points from the U._k.. Jury that night two thousand two he was part of the group one with give me and on in two thousand five with La La La and so he tried again for so I I in twenty ten and it didn't really work out but this I think is really awesome and and a great choice Robert so Robert Thank you very much for your request Harris Constantinos Christoforou with the song angel from a secret mission fauna in two thousand and ten mckrill almost signing two years for the Moose <music>. It's the GER on these who is come backs meaning leading the Angel His Hobby Heavens plays. He's what would show although mean <music> say I saw as the needs of a medial maybe lead to automates stumbling alone in the dark my my poem <music> <music> the House of a media. Uh Angel Calm to be chewed up with just move any son to show show could open and get your roots and inch a man show that that John Jeremy Anywhere through now wait it would be used to be <music>. Stop through no way to get through. Wait another day flag football match you talking through just you it. I'm talking to Yakub's thrice rope wave Tolkien to you that as Denmark two thousand five coming ninth breath with a hundred and twenty five points and I must have met one of Norway's best. I think where there were being then. They're very genuine very likable for it was awesome yet. I really did rigged and <hes> does going to go on pre. Two thousand five was quite a spectacular show. Now it was hosted in the forum horsens yes and basically kissed Gab. He's one of the <hes> was one of the hosts so everybody loves her. She represented Denmark in Nineteen eight thousand nine coming third with <hes> the Mania Boone love but dumb Yakub soy store up <hes> undocumented Caminiti go on pre beat the Olsen brothers who five years previously one demo in two thousand. I we fly on the wings of love. We won't earn Love Pun intended yes. He did that but the awesome brothers didn't into too badly I mean they was four points six point Senate the awesome brothers song is called little yellow radio and I really liked at the time I loved him. I do now actually into perfectly honest for it was awesome <hes> so that's something to check out if you ever <hes> interested in that sorry I'm with U._K.. Gave it <hes> eight points in the Grand Farnell in the two thousand and five contests are quite right beside very well done. Denmark rights is now time to go and do something incredibly random long we do every week. It is now time full rand. Uh Yes it is that part of the show where we do the random thing where raw gets the two hats out with both of them have little the bits of paper and then one has countries in all countries have participated in the Eurovision Song at including Morocco asked they were there once in nineteen nineteen. I'm in the upper hatch. We got years and science nights. Yes Oh yes from nineteen fifty six all the way to the present two thousand eighteen which was the last one have done two thousand nineteen just yet. We're coming up very soon got more information about that as well as avowed U._K.. National Final final coming up very soon winning Eurovision showcase news stay tuned for that but anyway next to draw for this week now. Let's do the year this time right so we're going to do. Thank you rob okay so we're GONNA do the two thousand and ten contests now. That was an old law in Norway a year. After Alexander rightback one with fairytale and the country we're going to do is Serbia. Yes Serbia so that's Milan stunning Kovic with avoidable con yes Milan Stock Kovic with oil kind which means this is the Balkans us yeah now in the graph honor came thirteenth or seventy two points unbeknownst to me for spotty awful. Excuse my language <hes> yet nullify the favorite of Moina must do so in the Grand Final Serbia twelve points from Bosnia and Herzegovina Surprise <hes> they also go ten points from France and Switzerland bree okay so the French speaking countries quite likes though Belgium didn't <hes> they didn't give any points in the grand final the didn't the semi <hes> eight points from Croatia and Slovenia Fair enough seven points from Macedonia in Sweden five from Germany three from Albania and one point from Cyprus in Netherlands perspectively yes so in the grand final <hes> the points from Serbia eight points went to the eventual winners Germany which was lay know with satellite of course ten points was the Greek Song from two thousand ten and everybody knows thousand ten wealth they should do 'cause it's awesome. It's from IAGO's Allah costs and friends with Song uh-huh yes or pump. I'm GonNa have to play then. I think that she might get pretty for that. <hes> and the twelve points went to Bosnia and Herzegovina from Serbia are expected to no so and to be honest Bosnia and Herzegovina had a pretty lacklustre song from focus in Brad each with thunder and lightning. It wasn't a bad song. It's just a bit boring. I'm no wonder it didn't do particularly well. He came seventeenth so anyway rubs random requests. This week is Serbia two thousand ten. Yes it's Milankovitch with avoidable con- This is the Bulk Hans Doc Talk No <music> it doc take. Someone in Serbia Two Thousand Ten oh my goodness me ropes rent request this week now as promised we go to pay Greece two thousand ten the U._K.. Gave this twelve points and quite rightly so Georgia's Alec Yaas and the friends friends singing off this move that he said knees shaking they get big excessive me on kids live bad. I'd say ah this book for me. Not He say salad several Susan in Doc uh-huh talk it is now Taller Fuel Eurovision showcase news writes hair on Sunday the thirteenth off January two thousand nineteen with your host Karen. Ari Suskind gets so I I've lost nine. We have the French first Semi Final Augustine S._E._O.. On so if you would like to find out the results that had over two favoring eurovision news websites yes we finally have a date. The United Kingdom will be choosing their racks for the Eurovision two thousand nineteen on Friday February the the eight the B._b._c. have announced that there will brutal cost the show on BBC two that noise <hes> furthermore the B._b._C. revealed that tickets go on sale like last year g to the show taking place in a studio. A DOC ten pain in Sofa to Manchester is the first time that the show will be hosted in media sitting now tickets are available for fans over the ages sixteen. Those under eighteen must be accompanied by an out when going to the Shire of people can apply for tickets of the case Nice National Far North through in TV ranked here so if you want to find the lakes of that Goto your favorite year vision news website across this. It's basically everywhere I know so we have a link on our social media pages. The running order famility festival in two thousand and nineteen has been released. We have the semifinals over the sleep in Gothenburg Malheur Lake Sand and linkoping and not we'll be opening at on semi one and John Ludwick will be closing in linkoping all on the four semi on the artists taking polite protective parks in Ukraine's national finals Zidan vid breath two thousand nine hundred have been revealed and Tanya is going to be returning which to me I'm Derek and finally all eight songs from the Czech. National Final have been released and there's some point good doozy's out eh so that is your vision showcase news. I'm Karen Touchy here. R._H._S.'s you listen to the case on the fan. Get in so much trouble sorry rope at the Eurovision Eurovision into all the Eurovision fans out there why don't join J._p.. And the team of Radio International for a weekly trip through the world of the Eurovision Song contest there'll be lots of music artist interviews and regular features including the cover spas and the European market now on your browser or even better subscribe to the Podcast W._w._w.. Dot Radio DOT TV at you never have to miss your favorites. euro-asian radio shows the that'd be missed the previous episode of the year which showcased never fear Karen his hair visit the websites e._S._e.. Showcase dot dot com or just search your shape ak on any put cops. Kidding is jeans and put big showcase on Forest F._M.. There is no needs to be making your mind up and juice uh-huh uh-huh sir. Tesla the jump darn hang up on love that was from the U._k.. National final a song for Europe in Nineteen eighty-six coming second now. I must admit I prefer that song to rider runner in the night which eventually was the U._k.. Entry on my year of birth in nineteen eighty six and <hes> I think is for Europe in nineteen eighty six stellar because the song I'm GonNa pay you next with SONA at she came third and I think is awesome. So here is the group Vanity Fair and here is the Song Dreamer from the U._K.. National find or anointing eighty six coming third <music> sade say need you can be <music> doc and where I never yeah <music> in my chest Eh yeah <music>. It's not fair with dreamer from the U._K.. National Audio Eighty six hundred Europe yes right hair on farce F._M.'s Eurovision showcase with me Caryn Ari touchy it if you want to get in contact with showers. Send US An e Mail E._S._e.. Showcase aunt gmail.com follow us on twitter at E._S._e.. Showcase and of course you can like facebook page and find us on facebook search for the Eurovision Division Cher case right is now time to go to the to the Eurovision Song contest back catalogue and play a song live from the Eurovision itself. Yes it's time for live alive earned kick K yes. It's time for us to go live boy to the nineteen eighty three eurovision song contests this week and we're going to the song that came eleven with forty one points one of the most underrated entries representing Finland Inland. Yes upsilon representative Finland nineteen eighty three in Munich with a song fantasy ya which oversee means fantasy yes it is and doesn't says on the Tin Yes so <hes> Finnigan is most amount of points which is eight from Greece seven points Roma Germany and Israel six from the United Kingdom should have been more. I think <hes> <hes> full points from Switzerland under three points from tech he two points from Norway and Austria. I'm one point from France and Luxembourg respectively Sir live from the nineteen eighty three Eurovision song contest in Munich. Germany hair is he's asked me up so land with the inker edible the orchestra the Orchestra's back at Eurovision Song contest here is fantasy. The history say that now the movie L. dollars passing the when young let me see a longtime Tyson that on the Senate Yeah uh-huh excuse me hello this is Donna from Ireland. You're listening to Eurovision suitcase forest F._M.. Reminds me of <music> in the in casino medical field the capacity. <music> in Beijing <music> owner <music> and again on equine enough energy it must be thirty Fiji <hes> mm-hmm uh-huh yeah in the final I remain a power from Italy singing the song belly cheetah a big hit across Europe a number one in Italy in the nineteen eighty two <hes> coming third in the Swish Charles there a coming sakes and again to number six in Germany number seven in Belgium <hes> and also number in a minority in Austria Seffrin in already mentioned about <hes> Ten and frogs eighteen in the Netherlands are big European head there with the Song Fella Cheetah for pretending to English it means unhappiness. Yes indeed well remain. A power and Albano were then married couple back in the seventies and in the eighties and the nineties are they divorced in nineteen ninety nine I but professionally professional reunited back in two thousand and thirteen and they saw still going together <hes> and doing various concerts all over the place they've released <hes> a couple of albums since two thousand thirteen <hes> <hes> they released a very best album which you can get and <hes> yeah as they have some good songs out there <hes> and they also represented Italy twice in the nineteen seventy six six eurovision song contest in will live in it again. which was the Italian entry <hes> of a state? I know sorry in nineteen eighty five with magic or magic coming seven so they've done some pretty good for solid so I'd say right now. It's on for a final song before we go and I will let the gentlemen introduce the song himself and this is from the two thousand and Seventeen Eurovision song contest s just a couple of years ago from Kiev. Ukraine hair is a great happy song which to be honest with you. I heard earlier this week on E._S._P._N.. Radio I don't say we need to play this so let's do it. Although hello this is Nathan trend from Austria. You're listening to your vision showcase unforced F._M.. And this is my song running on air enjoy. It's been a long time running because I had some things to see. I had to meet some people. Oh over there to believe me. I'm taking that struggle me what I'm fighting for. I'm living it up. I AIN'T GONNA start to make that final score keeper <music> as fast as I can keep her won't stop if you put me down again. Can you let me drown swint like champion. They'll be they'll be bad times. Okay running me a million answers as the same you can put me in a box doing toned-down pretending that that is a massive those whatever you whatever you need Donna Gate off your I'll keep running as fast as I stop and let me swim like champion that'd be that'd be Sir you know if you push down get up again. They'll be it was nice insurance representing Australia the two thousand Seventeen Eurovision song contest that is running on at well. Thank you for listening to your vision showcase right here on Forest F._M.. With Me Care Norwich US yet before we go on that you what you can watch coming up in the next week or two Eurovision song contests fix the bulb. If you're a big year of Japan the company Sound Sundays so on next Saturday so that the nine teams we got the first heat of Hungary's adult competition shut on of course in Lithuania because he to of Eurasia sorry report selected to you on as well and of course the French have got destiny theon all these young semifinal numeral anymore. Yes saving for no terrier that precincts sharp will take place swell. If you want to find out the updated miss an interest about the Eurovision Song contest and a beautiful usual calendar made up by go to this website Eurovision World Dot Com yes to that I not forgetting the next Sunday evening. Spain have got their operas theon term. I'm for Eurovision West. Fain will select the entry for Tel Aviv two thousand Nineteen Eurovision song contests take care. I live eat dead. She of Wa Evita Sane at at the office. We slept w tenure and we're seeing Sunday at five pm to in here comes again lunch. Will it be the same old same old or are you ready to take vacation from the ordinary with a new Jamaican jerk Turkey Turkey sub at firehouse subs freshly sliced smoked Turkey breast crave ably sweet mustard sauce and a hint of Caribbean seasoning just five fifty five remedium save time order the new Jamaican Jerk Turkey sub on the firehouse subs APP firehouse subs. I enjoy more subs. Save more lives participating locations limited time only plus tax prices may vary for delivery. You're with your baby girl. You've been practicing your dad does for weeks and now she looks up and begins to mouth her very first words this is.
NPR News: 02-28-2020 1AM ET
"Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Shay Stevens House Speaker. Nancy Pelosi says bipartisan leaders of Congress are close to an agreement on emergency funding to combat the spread of the new corona virus. Pelosi says she spoke with Vice President Mike Pence about concerns that he's in charge of the administration's response. We had always had a very candid relationship. And I expressed to him the concern that I had of his being in this position while I look forward to working with him about his at when he was governor of Indiana slashing the Public Health Budget flow says that until now the administration's response to Corona virus has been often been INFO peg. She says Congressional leaders want to work with science based professionals to find ways to prevent the spread of the disease in the US. Asian stock markets have fallen further on virus fears after wall. Street's biggest one day drop in nine years. Tokyo shares are down over four percent while stocks in Hong Kong and Shanghai are nearly three percent lower the major US indices tumbled over four percent Thursday and US futures are lower at this hour. The phone has rung administrations investigating a new E. coli outbreak. They say is likely linked to Jimmy. John's restaurants as NPR's Jane Newman reports. There are fourteen new cases connected to the chains clover sprouts investigators say the likely source of the new E. Coli outbreak is from Jimmy Johns restaurants in Iowa Illinois Missouri Texas and Utah The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says customers who have recently eaten sandwiches with clover sprouts from Jimmy Johns restaurants and who are now experiencing symptoms like severe stomach cramps diarrhoea. Fever nausea or vomiting should contact their doctor and report their illness to their local health department. Jimmy Johns says it stops serving clover sprouts on Tuesday but authorities are now investigating whether the sprouts have been distributed elsewhere genuine. Npr News Washington humanitarian officials. Say the situation in. Syria is intolerable. Npr's Michele Keleman reports that the US is calling on Russia to stop airstrikes that are forcing hundreds of thousands of Syrians to flee deputy. Us Emergency Relief Coordinator. Ursula Mueller says Syrian women and it Lib have a message for the Security Council. What happening in northwest Syria. These said is beyond imagination. It is not humanly tolerable. They taught children so traumatized. They no longer speak. Russia's ambassador says aid group should have been more prepared to deal with the situation and he argues. The conflict won't end until all terrorists leave Syria. Us Ambassador Kelly Kraft is calling on Russia to ground its planes describing the situation around Delib as a man made humanitarian nightmare. Michelle Kellerman. Npr News. The State Department you're listening to. Npr News Kosovo says it will drop part of a controversial tax on goods from Serbia. It's part of an effort to restart negotiations on normalized relations with Belgrade. Teri Schultz reports that coast-to-coast foes decision to impose tariffs on Serbian. Imports was heavily criticised by the European Union and NATO Kosovo's new Prime Minister Albin. Kurti says he will drop the import duty on raw materials coming from Serbia a tax imposed by his predecessor in twenty eighteen courteous in return that Serbia stop pressuring countries that recognize Kosovo's independence to revoke it cove declared independence from Serbia in two thousand eight but Belgrade and several European Union governments. Don't recognize it. Crudely says if Serbia responds positively to his initiative the tax will be completely lifted. Talks between the two countries mediated by the E. You were suspended when the tariffs were imposed by. Kosovo critic says he wants the US and the EU to serve as guarantors of the new agreement. Should it move forward for NPR news? I'm Teri Schultz. Walmart confirms that it's developing a customer membership program called Walmart plus to compete against Amazon. The initiative competence Walmart is locked in an arms race with the online retail giant bring packages faster customers homes former Baltimore mayor. Catherine PUGH has received three years sentence for conspiracy and tax evasion. Pugh SOLTER self published children's books to nonprofits to promote her political career and funder campaign. The veteran Democrat was elected mayor in two thousand sixteen and Brazilian. Last May I'm Shay Stevens. Npr News in Washington.
More Local Assemblies for the Platform for Progress Movement Are Being Formed Across Bosnia and Herzegovina.
"We started a meeting with the people who will initiate our would be called expansion. Expect Teams Salona two people per area burned to the lane of governmental until responsibility or ministry. You say or secretary and that day I had a a couple of meetings with a couple of people to to start forming good team in each of those teams will be responsible for common defining set of priorities in that area. Our suggestions for solutions and then commenting on the current state of affairs within that area that day. Then we start to. We actually went to newstalk. is city down probably in the Governor Lester investment had to go in interesting. What is interesting about that town is that they said there was war after war after the war from ninety two to ninety five was over? They told me they was about hundred. Fifty active plus in Bombay's of houses of people who decided to come back so it continued confident trying to prevent people from coming back. The interesting thing about starts is that before the war. It was pro-nea yeah those fifty something percent Muslims the maybe thirty percents Serbs and then traders in across often wore. It seems that because of the war served population almost disappeared. They moved to and to the east of head to go. Oh it's Serbia Serb Bosnian Serb area and the crossroads became fifty five percent of sword. Muslims forty five percents but the crowds have absolute power which means all the jobs within the all the stake jobs became crowd and became really really haven't craw brought in ideology into the huge between the two groups crowds. Basically saying this is our town and so we have to talk talk about the potential for developing but for for provinces they organized. A town will beating Ed. I had no idea what to expect was very very often heads. Government is always very hot expectedly between two people who over seventy seventy five which showed up. He was full actually took a smaller. Anybody was fooling people were standing to. It was very hot Sweating like crazy in to talk for our out. It was really odd but nobody laughed. Everybody state was it was interesting. It was very very very good conversation at night. We went to start to spend the night in Mostar. Spend the night in in a beautiful home a luxury not be out a place. They have six seven apartments and they Rent those apartments to tourists in one of our members own season. He invited resented I to to spend the night there air at their expense. It was it was just gorgeous next to the old bridge and Mazda and we walked midnight tonight. The place ahead light dinner and so a lot of readings specially regarding the The initiation of extract teams. We also have On the planning on September. Eighteenth the first meeting What I call the State Council Then fifteen people would start thinking about Bosnia long-term hundred hundred fifty year long turn. What are we trying to call trying to be captain and Wednesday? Which is yesterday Went to senator. Anytime is a town where we had the really initial huge success. A lot of people got interested but the boards the city council both for the City Council established by platform the guide development activities platform activities within this town. And it's one of the largest cities in Bosnia they developed in mosque's astute groups started fighting each other even to the point that we had to cancel the results of the elections and now starting gain gain. We decided to find a person who can who can new lead can assemble a team of provident. People would really instead of being elected. We will plaintive into vaguely Impact Form for progress. Because we don't want to go through and neither process of elections. There sure did everything they could have done. Just to sign up people to vote for them. As opposed to voting for the other guy said that is allow principle what we need here about the community before the best for them not do I like one person or dislike him or her anyway. So event there to talk to this for this initial recommended group of people who will initiate tapis again in San so and that is one of the few remaining tough spots and it was very good needing Gupta people and we think that is going to somehow turn around today. The the U. Bosnian national team is playing soccer venture game against them so Dr to to Uh to observe the mansion talk to people in Friday. I'm going to go to Ma stock to talk some it to a person who is an IT enterpreneur some ideas about Getting economies started again We're stopping stallings again. To talk to during our facebook live Sunday. Nine o'clock Bosnian title. We'll talk to a person who is the director of a larger corporation. Whose owner is the Slovenian League in bosnia-herzegovina financing will be in the crowd parts as they like to quote and they are really fighting big time against the local authorities authorities because they are putting all kinds of roadblocks in frontal damn simply because the these agreed with the politics of division In so I will have her as guest in our facebook Back so actually. Not The really top league into travel but really grueling into of the number of meetings meetings sometimes hard tough meetings bats Address the core issue of off. How do we find the right people to do all of this? We are getting more and more exposure in the media and agreed to level of recognition in the country. But it is obvious that so finding the right people will be the kid to success aside from the financial support. You when you hear of this story of the bombing continued after the war. And I don't want I don't know if this is something you already knew you and came to you as a surprise but as you learn these I guess the importance of getting that somehow shoring that information out there. These are things that I'm I'm assuming a lot of people don't know about an it's important for people to understand that these these things have gone on a great question. I I was actually surprised I who the lot doing this last year in APP on my presence here but I must tell you that silence shock tight never heard the vet before people talk about it much simply because it's not popular. It doesn't bode well for the people who for the parties who for government to various levels and it was a shock day. They seem but but they said it's a matter of factly and they said you know what nobody knows this but we had war after war and then they had hired fifty bondings eight. You go through it be. You cannot even talk about auto because people don't want that to denote not neither side or or any of those three sides because they tried to get the sense of appear appearance of peace in There for other talk about it. Let's talk about is fine is amazing and I. I keep hearing stories. Surprisingly today. I was walking in surreal down this in the LCD old town aerial in somebody called me out because it. Hey professor and I turn around. It's a professor of both both sides of actually comparative religion. Who who I had the privilege of meeting? Maybe he'll be earlier and then he said let's just walk. Where are you going going back to the office? He said let's walk and talk and interestingly thing Lena off he he he was telling me about his experience in the war in he was invest in far northwestern part of Bosnia and he was telling me about the fact that he was he was asked to run the radio station when there was internal division within the Bosniak side and he said you know one one night I went to bed thinking I was in the country where the president was with whose president was audience vagaries the first president of this new. You Buzz there. He said the next morning I woke up to the news that there was a coup of some sort in that part of the country. You wear this. Other person declared himself the LORD FICA UPDATES and suddenly it. It became a borough brothers against brothers even brothers by religion or this analogy whenever we going agreement those terms but and it was literally. He'll studying about how he was running to be arrested. So ill not only running away from the split. You're running away from quote. You run to arrest you and then trying to recognize. Who is your view? People who is not you of your people title and That was a conflict. That was really really hard to fathom because it was literally divided literally families. I know that Louise where one served was on one side in the under the other side in brightness physical biological brothers should take each other. It's hard to really put yourself in the position of society so fractured at one point. During the conflict it was not only Serbs against Bosnia's exit cards but the develop uh under the influence of the political establishment Neighboring Croatia Cross started wanted shooting at the Bosnian Muslims in the front country though so it was Serbs against the Bosnian crimes against the Bosniak. Sometim some that were buying a service against the crowds and then suddenly what happened was against Bosniaks. Some point in the country was not only into the conflicts was such that within the like Sarajevo. It was not only street battles. Radio could say this read is there than the this on these hours on this side of those three but you came to the houses vistory. This House is go in the house next to it. Elected Zydus is ours but you actually got to the point that we've been that fragmentation. Listen you had the fragmentation within you wouldn't one side lead over three sides killing each other the complexity which was was really amazing in just comes out not in any organized structured away but as snippets they come up and snippets out conversation with people. That who you've the man who you never for anyway you in this country surprised every day even though you think I think you've seen you heard everything. Think twice before you say that because there's always something news something different. I mean it brings brings clarity just some of the issues that you deal with your outreach. In terms of dealing with people there's there's a lot of scarring going on with people that that have gone through that and trying to get them to embrace a new idea or something is makes it even more difficult. I would think absolutely absolutely but such is life and this is So this is a country that is not seeing the problem that are heading. Its way like the change of the population relation where the people are leaving especially the young ones getting older there. Will there any jobs going nuts. Taken the claims he goes there new people. They left a really relates. Even hard to find somebody who's fix your toilet or thinks you adjacent e because they can find a job easily Germany. And why don't go leave so even though there's an unemployment claimant in the same time many many jobs house or money to be made at nobody's claiming because when terms of the outreach in general across in the country I know you've run in with some of these governing bodies in the individual cities municipalities where. You're dealing with issues there but overall how how do you feel that's going in terms of getting established Looking ahead to the local election. What I guess just a year away or just a little over year way? I am really positive about where we Dr Dino beds is hard and there are spots but over Ole oh really moving in the right direction. There are greater in greater gear. There's there's evidence almost on a daily basis that we be noticed by the ruling party's one of those started. Coughing US really completely from from the ideas of for the country to execution of building yourselves and local organizations It was interesting. It was interesting. I went there several several days ago to talk to this new appointed person who we will ask to establish the organization in this Coun- colds editor. She meant in hotel in the in. The restaurant in the cafe of the hotel called hotel love has an aide to talk about names of a leading digital people but in this Patel we talk about our when away when own did I said she said. Please come here in leads me to the larger group of people's potential essential candidates for the council for the governing body for the city of cancer. And that's what I did yesterday. She she tried. She basically said where we were leaving. What I was as I was leaving she said will try? I try to find a conference room in this hotel. I know the owner. He's a good guy I might even ask him to join. The platform will should try to get She didn't go to the. They tried to reserve a conference from within until but she was spilled none none afraid there ten and plus not afraid age to her that that would be good so she asked her friend to call and she tried to reserve the friend calls in Who is it for and she said for this person this is a real full basically the so her talking to me that information to be conveyed somebody somewhere basically said no? You cannot prevent event so we ended up in the in the chess club in a small room in the Chess Club at those people. Don't care about politics. Occurred in politics will choose to give in to fear of the unknown build. The few is is I think is a testament estimate to the strength of the idea is in the indication that we are growing another perceiving And that Lee on the right path Rehab. We also learned that we need to really be decisive. When we see a person who is misplaced in terms of the tasks that the ask that person to 'em it's it's not going well instead of trying to fix it? I think we learned just to Austin person to do another job that that's more in line line with capabilities and then find the person who connects redo waiting and tried to. Thanks been working. We don't have time we have. We will hopefully have our annual assembly in annual meeting of Oil candle the delegates in older members in it at the end of November and then we have to start working election full Ooh full force. Action will be in October next year. Growing fine both domestically and Internationally and I think by December by November by the tunnel election we should double should double both in both within in countries with invest in. Where where are we in the process? It may be too early for this but in terms of potential candidates for I would for lack of Minaya I mean like a council seat or something for the merediths Guy. We are just starting with the process via the goalies to having completed meeting to identify the people by end of this calendar year. I know for some people that is firmly believe because in Bosnia the campaign in earnest starts just two months before the elections. The official however. It's happening now too but that'd be softer ray. But large large parties have already started. Put it putting in place. The T of their social media lawyers who are there to attack anybody else. Awesome promotes of their interests to the if imports tasteful as they grow so to recognize that it is besides money the most important issue he will finding the right people grew leave. Thank them for the jobs preparing them. Opening Mia for them Getting to the people putting them in front of the people going Lincoln tunnel leading to it is going to be tough but interesting charging at the same time and then just another quick one in terms of out-reached to neighboring countries. How is that? I haven't heard you mention anything about traveling to any of the neighboring countries to help with the organization Nationair in just curious how that process is going and I have plans to visit. celebs actually knows In October Sweden and in down in Denmark and I will also go to the. US In October there are invitations from Canada Australia. Germany Luxembourg Norway. There's there's one Assembly meeting leading to read into the leading aimed toward Lake City Council corrections. It's inorder pocket. Bosnia they are getting ready to do something different. They On reach a program entertainment program addition to really will professional. Oh I said simply probably better to convince Commissioning the Level Party Convention bunnies. He's a meeting of all the members leading to that. Who elect who will elect of their a city council seaboard for the lead for?
The COVID-19 Pandemic Is Weakening Democracy Around the World, Report Finds
"The covid nineteen pandemic is weakening democracy around the world report finds. By. Carl. Vic. Governments around the world are using the cova non pandemic excuse to restrict freedoms punish independent news operations and attack minorities according to a global survey. By Freedom House, the US based nonprofit known for its annual assessment of global democracy. The report published Friday found that ninety one countries have imposed nukes controls on news media because of the pandemic and at least seven e to have restricted free speech or criticism of the government. The measures extend from countries rated as free such as India to those judged partly free like. The Philippines to the not free including China Russia and Venezuela all told clampdowns have weakened democracy in eighty countries accelerating a fourteen year decline in freedom as measured by the group's annual survey what began as a worldwide health crisis has become part of the global crisis for Democracy said, Freedom House President Michael J. Abramovich in a statement accompanying the release titled Democracy Under Lockdown governments in every part of the world have abused their powers in the name of public health seizing the opportunity to undermine democracy and human rights. The report warned that China's reaction to the corona virus. Quote could prove a dystopia model for the future increased nationalist and propagandistic rhetoric at home in an effort to drown out calls for transparency and accountability enhanced and innovative technological surveillance crackdowns on individuals within and outside the country who share information that contradicts resume, messaging, and the persecution of potential critics among the domestic elite. It also singled out Sri Lanka where the prime minister or the arrest of anyone who contradicts the government on covid nineteen allowed the legislature to expire without new elections and the minority Muslim population has been scapegoated. Other countries also made public health a pretext. Vulnerable. Groups migrants by Serbia Romani by Bulgaria foreign workers by Kuwait in the US the reports slammed the trump administration for creating quote of fog of misinformation around the pandemic, making false and misleading information that put lives at risk and attempting to politicize public health. The survey covered events from January to September in one hundred, ninety two countries, surveying analysts, journalists, and activists in one, hundred, five of them. They were not optimistic more than sixty percent of the observers said they expect the impact on political rights and civil liberties from the pandemic would last three to five years.
#45: Semi-Final 1 Part 2 Oof Poland, Serbia, Slovenia, Australia, Belgium
"Hello. And welcome to the euro episode number forty five for the week of April. First twenty nineteen. I'm Ben Smith, and I'm joined today by my foot home. Hey, mike. We are a pair of Americans trying to make sense of the Eurovision song contest. And this week will be talking about these second batch of entries from this year's first semifinal has it going Mike, it's going. Well, how are you doing? I am good. Springs here all of the internet's April Fool's day. Jokes are bad at I dislike them strongly. Yeah. It's really the most useless day on the internet, which is really saying something given the current state of things in the universe. And just a reminder to the professionals there. You don't have to send that Email. You have to send that jokey million to post that fake press release. We'd be fine. I wouldn't mind without it. It's particularly difficult when we're trying to compile stories. All right. What do we actually need to pay attention to and how rigorous do we have to do our research like it felt like we had to add extra layer of looking stuff up just to get through this week's episode. So. Yes. So much cross-checking so much so much making sure that there's a second source reporting the same thing, it's like serious journalism over here. Oh. Okay. So one bit of news. We actually have a news desk this week. There's going to be a new score presentation method. We are shaking it up a little bit. Again. Not too much though. You're still going to have separate presentation of the jury vote and the Tallaght, but unlike the last couple of years where we have gone from who got the least points who got the most points. We are going to go from the bottom of the scoreboard up after the jury vote. So whoever's in last place, we're gonna find out. Hey, they did really really well tell about or we're going to have a situation where just thinking about Sweden last year where oh boy they were doing real. Well, the jury's. But nobody likes that. Everybody was good. I am so excited about this new method. It's going to be like it's going to be kind of bonkers for the Sweden situation or the one that jumped to my mind immediately was Austria in two thousand seventeen where they got zero points from the telephone even though they were in like eleventh or twelfth place after the jury and there were gasps in the room when zero points were announced but having that happen. Midway through the presentation. Like, I mean, sorry Austria. But at the same time that's gonna be really fun to watch. I was initially disappointed because I've sort of loved finding out who everybody really strongly disliked or that. They dislike them, it's just that. They didn't vote for them. Yeah. I mean, it could be eleventh place across the board. Yeah. I liked knowing the those things right up front on the other hand, the idea of spreading that out across where things lie after the first round of votes. Just feels very exciting. I like it. So well done team thought of that. It gets rid of the goofiness that happened last year where it came down to the final score revealed between Israel and Cyprus, and they were still trying to drum it up as could Austria still score the upset and like sitting at home, and you know, it's mathematically impossible for that to happen. But they're still trying to Austria to be like, no, you got to stand up and pretend that you're still in the running for this. No, they're not. But yeah, I think if you win the jury you should have the right to be in the big dramatic moment at the end, and this and this new system guarantees that. I see no real downside to this one. And I'm very excited to see it executed for this year's contest. Agreed how the rest of the Eurovision planning process going, Mike. Oh, goodness. Yeah. There's just so much goofiness. That's happening right now in terms of security at the contest so funding's been kind of an issue throughout your vision. Preparations like there was the big kerfuffle back in September of whether or not Israel was going to pay the deposit. They needed to pay the you for the hosting rights. And that went down to the eleventh hour over the weekend. The security screenings that were happening. So like bomb sniffing dogs and like other protocols that are pretty standard for your vision. Just in terms of getting the venue set. Yup. And like all of those logistics funding stopped so work stopped and they've been scrambling for the last twenty four forty eight hours as we record this trying to secure funding because the broadcaster was saying that they didn't want to have to pay for the whole thing. And it's usually not the broadcaster that pays for the whole thing. Usually the government helps with some of that funding. The government was saying we don't really want to pay for this. And they came up with a split between various ministries within the government. But then the ministry of tourism is just like they didn't wanna pay their share. So then the prime minister's office had to step in. It's a huge unnecessary mess. But apparently, it's all been resolved. Now checks are starting to clear and work should start up again and getting the venue all set for the contest happening in less than two months time now, so Yup. Yeah. Good luck with that. So. Elsewhere in Yana, listen head, right? A very stern letter. And then take a big sign news news plot everyone's favorite drama de about a terrorist threatening very similar to the Eurasian song. Contest has been postponed to Aaron hill. After your vision is done because remember how the like, yeah. We're gonna show this before the contest and France was like, hey, it would be great. If you didn't portray a Muslim character threatening the bomb this when we were setting someone who is Muslim as our entrant. That would be great. Could you just hold off for like a week or two that would be great thanks in Israel's like, no. And for instance, like, okay, then we're going to drop out and again all of us on like come in and give everybody very strong talking to go come on guys. But that seems to have also been resolved because it's going to air after the Eurovision is done this year. Yeah. I agree. I love it. How like the phantom counting down the days grand final. It's gonna be so exciting. Whereas I could just see Yadollah Sanju counting down the days to when he just get a Margarita sit on about this. Wearing no worry about which ministry is gonna just refuse to do. What it's supposed to do as Dulles don't really want his job at this particular moment. So no, thank you. I'm good in terms of phantom, your vision interaction news, my heritage. The title sponsor of this year's contest released an app last week. That's doing these sort of photo matching with their photo database me m-, I guess and upload a photo of yourself and it spits out your vision act. They think you look like I tested it out with a few photos. Some with me wearing glasses some from a few years ago and all three times, I got Greece's Sokha's Rufus as my match. Oh exciting. Although that's very flattering. I do not see it at all. They said it was a fifty three percent match. I don't even see it as a twenty percent. That is not a high percentage. Oh, no. I mean in fairness, I also use the app and one photo, and I was matched with Iceland's entry from nineteen ninety nine. So was very happy that the photo clearly indicated I'm a big fan of Iceland right now. But I have like fifty two percent match. That is not a good enough match in my book, I was very pleased that when I tried to upload another photo and instead selected these screen shot. I have taken my first results. It did identify the person. In was the Icelandic entry from nineteen ninety nine with eight ninety nine percent confidence rating. Okay. I it's a little troubling. That was only ninety nine percent. Yeah. Yeah. Percents enduring large screen shot with other things in the photo. So okay. Maybe that threw it off. I tried a second photo. And it did not it said that it was broken. Try the photo again from home still said, no, Nope. Not gonna do this. So from the other postings that I've seen on Twitter, and such I've not seen anybody have more than a fifty percent match. So if you're somebody who has a significantly higher match and actually agree with the result. Let us know. I would really be curious to see. Sitting over here to fifty percent match. And it's not great. I do not like the app. I don't know who I would look like meal because I've never really thought about it. Also, what is my heritage doing with these photos? Yeah. There is that element to it as well. But of course, if everything's matching it fifty percent, that's. Well, I guess that doesn't courage people to post more photos to try to get a better match lined up. How about instead of going down conspiracy theories? Let's let's move onto our main topic. Yes. Let's okay. So last week we kicked off our second. Look at all the entries. We are currently in the thick of the first semi final. And this is the second group of five Chris king was was with us last week. And he was delight this week is just the two of us, and we're gonna we're gonna talk about some entries. So with the first semi final. You're taking things in alphabetical. Order fingers crossed. We will have some sort of running order for for sunny. Final two in the next couple of weeks, or so we can do those in running order, but for now we're going to cover Poland, Serbia, Slovenia, Australia and Belgium's because we are hitting the mid point of semifinal one and starting up again with the second half, the first item on our docket today is Poland and to Leah with fire of love or polish. Okay. Mike. How are you feeling about this one? I have some pretty extended thoughts about this. So maybe maybe you should go first with what you think of the song. Okay. Cool. Yeah. I feel like my thoughts are a little more concise on this one. So let me I listen to this one. I liked that Poland this are of approaching things from very folk tradition. This year, even though this particular folk tradition is now I enjoy so the official version of the song has been released. I think the thing that's really not working for me is that they are trying to do through like half English half polish here instead of one or the other in a way that doesn't really serve either language. Well, you know in prepping for the show this week. I look I just typed in the name of the song click on the first link and was like something feels different about this. And I clicked on the official video on the two page, which is entirely in polish. I think the song works better. If it doesn't have the English like the English feels very shoehorned, Dan. And it feels like they are trying to. Bridge the gap between just being full like a fully folk entry and having something for for viewers to grasp onto I'm not sure it works. That makes a lot of sense. My main issue with the song. Well, it's dealing with the studio version of the track which has the production values of kids pop song. Part of the reason why I have such extensive notes about this is I realized that kids bop might be something that doesn't exist outside of the US. And I wanted to double check that. And I fell down a rabbit hole that I just find fascinating. Yes. Yes. So gather around kids, we've got to talk about for our friends outside the US. What kids bop is it's sort of like the now, that's what I call music compilations where it's just taking the hit songs from the last three to six months give or take. And they're all done as covers by children singing the songs like a group of three to six studio kids with Z. Yes, kids. Bop is spelled with Z or said, the first thing I wanted to check up is just like, all right? Is it actually children singing and in most cases? Yes, there may be one or two adult studio singers that are in it. But for the most part there, it is actually children that are singing these songs and with with some of the hits of the day the lyrics sometimes need to be cleaned up to be child appropriate. But yeah, it's just songs that are made kids safe that parents can buy them and listen to this like all right. This is a cover of a song that I like it's not going to drive me. Crazy. If we have to listen to this like five times on a road trip that sort of thing. But because they're covers like the production value is just very I don't even know how to really describe it. It's like the like heavy emphasis on the vocals and just a backing track playing. Yeah. Like, I feel like the production values fuel like the sound alikes that various people stick on Spotify or I tunes that when you're not paying attention. You click on the wrong one, right? Yes. Exactly. Looking more information about kids, Bob because like, okay? This is already kind of weird. There've been thirty nine main albums thirty ninth. Compilation came out this past January kids bop nine which came out several years ago, peaked at number two on the US billboard chart like the overall album chart since then twenty four of the thirty nine additions have reached the top ten all but to have hit number one on the US kids chart, so these are very popular compilation. The lowest ranking one was number thirty six which peaked at one nineteen for whatever reason, which I thought was really funny. I like no one is buying CDs anymore. But I mean, this is like this also encompasses I tunes charts and all of that. And like I was just looking at the track list. And it's like, oh, I don't immediately recognize all but one of these songs so there was that. And like one of the songs that was on. There was a post balloon Sogwipo really had to be cleaned up for the kid mix and stuff like this brand has gotten really weird. There's a point when you were sanitizing song which to ask should I continue doing this? Right. Right. But it's just so wildly successful. And like the kids pop kids, which is the official artist associated with kids. Bop, they hold the record for the most top ten albums ever. Like they beaten out for Springsteen and Madonna and like other like legacy acts to have this record. So I feel. That record has the largest of asterisk next to it though. I guess, but yeah, I mean, it's just like it's should be more of oak local phenomenon. I think not that. I'm advocating for it. But don't do this. These are bad. They are starting to branch out internationally like there's German kids. Bob, I think UK Australia like it's still kind of in the predominantly English-speaking world, but it's starting to grow out there. But during my research when favorite blurbs that I found this on Wikipedia was about their first ever world tour, which was the kids stop world tour was a nationwide rock concert. For kids featuring. Children and one adult performer MC backed by full rock band, which kicked off in the fall of two thousand seven in Minneapolis at target center. The tour traveled the upper midwest east coast comprising some twenty nine shows during a six month run. So to review the world tour was actually a nationwide tour so long as the nation was not west of the Mississippi. Initial tour that itself was not nationwide. Given the started in Minnesota and proceeded east. Yeah. Yeah. So it has ideas. But anyway, that's just all say that. It's just placing Poland's entry in very weird head space for me. It's if I was just going by the studio track I would have major reservations about particularly kind of going to their other catalog. They do a cover of Depeche modes. Enjoy the silence. Yes. And I think that's what really cemented the whole kids. Bop, analogy in my mind. Just because it's like, oh, yeah. It's just the same sort of like nasal higher pitched overly produced cover. So I kind of want to reserve judgment on this one until a live performance of this is more readily available. I believe they're performing at your vision in concert in Amsterdam this coming weekend. So I'm really looking forward to the video of that. Because I think I think as a live performance this could be really cool like I think what they do. At least the way that what they do is described. I think that could be interesting to watch. I don't know if it's necessarily going to be success. But it going to be different. Yeah. Whereas if it's going to be just kind of like a weird studio version, and like an for whatever reason, but immediately jump to mind, I was saying this was Yulia semi Lula's entry last year where it's like, oh, the studio version sounded one way, then you hear the life form insz, and you're just go. Yeah problems. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, this is all going to hinge on how they sound live. And I think it's going to be it's going to hand on how they sound live leading up to the event not necessarily at the event. Okay. Yeah. I I agree with that. And like when the band got described as blending traditional polish music with modern production. I did not imagine that kids. Bop was going to be the modern production end of that. Or just they're saying this is like there's an electric guitar in the background. I agree with you that I really want this. How this works live and how they perform live because based on only the video I feel like the performance styles very traditional which means standing in line next to one another which is not going to be dynamic television, bright the video presentation, and what you you're comparing it to Cold War when we were I talking about it a couple of weeks ago like there's just so much of this. It's just so overly produced feels very plastic and. I just want to kind of cut through some of that. And see what genuine attributes at has. Because I think there's something there. I just it's it's just shrink wrapped at the moment. Yeah. It feels very like three minute promotional clip. Just putting a giant asterisk next to Poland. In terms of all of my rankings until there's a little bit more information. I think so next on our list is Serbia's and tree which is navene a- bows of ICs Croona. So this one had a little bit of a revamp since Serbia's national final back at the beginning of March. What you think of this? Oh, so one thing I picked up during the week that I found very interesting and just thinking about how we're thinking about the pre parties Nevena is actually skipping believe London to get married, which is a great excuse to not go. Yeah. But it's also really weird one because it's like, you would think that would be circled on her calendar. Conflict here when you check when you check your planner and like, I get it. You maybe weren't expecting to become your nations entrant in the middle of wedding planning. But life was her both up, but that has nothing to do with the song. Like, this one has grown on me the more. I listen to it. Especially now that they revamped it before I think I had said that I really like the way this builds and the way that it's through voice, and that's still very much true. I feel like there is a lot in this semi final that feels very strong and this one feels a little bit more towards the middle. But I still really love to see this one squeak through in like eighth or ninth. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah. I think this one in the second semi-final, it would be way more of shoo-in, whereas this one they're just so many entries that are just hugging that middle and pretty much anything below third place is the bubble at this. Yeah. And what makes it so tricky being the bubble is I keep finding myself with a lot of the. Entries this year. Just being like, I don't know what to do with the song. Like, it's fine. It's not it's not earth shattering. Yeah. It's not earth shattering. It's not transcended. It's there's not a lot in the semi-final were listening to and be like, yes. This could potentially with like ten of these songs slowing through. Yeah. Going through. I would love for this to be one of them. Although one thing that gives me concern is I feel like what we see in the video on YouTube right now, which is their national final performance is about what we're going to get in the final staging wise. Yeah. I I don't see them doing too much. I could see them adding like a couple of instrumentalists behind her. Adding a couple of I could see them throw in like a couple of contemporary dancers behind her. I don't even know if they do that. Because I don't really think of contemporary dancers with Serbian entries. But I don't know that could be trying something new like this song feels like they're trying something new in a way where it's just like it doesn't have that like really hard finish at three minute. Mark the way that a lot of. Serbian entries have had in the past. So like it's kind of losing that I- density marker for the song. I bone objective the song goes through. But I don't think I'm going to be too troubled if it doesn't. Yeah. It's so middle of the road. Yeah. It's middle of the road. And I'm I mean that in a good way. But I think this is not the particular semi final to be middle of the road. There's such a large margin of error. I guess that. It's just it's just encompassing. So much of the field is like, yeah. This could really go anywhere. And it may just be something that it depends on what the weather's like that days. Like, oh, it's a rainy day it might do better than if it's a sunny day. You know, so yeah, it's there it's a good power ballot. And we're done we're done. We've said everything moving on a next we have Lavinia, which is Zala Kraus's and Gosper Santi with savvy. Win. This one came out. It was in a slew of things where we were just like. Wow. Your vision is a mood this year of those entries. This is one that I think is stuck with me the most like it feels very much like my thing. But I'm also very very cognizant right now that it is my thing in a way that I'm not sure it will be everyone's thing at Eurovision. Like, how do you feel about this one this one more than Serbia? I do not know what to do with the song. It does have a hooky nece about it where but it's kind of droning hooky nece. And I don't know if that's necessarily a good thing. It's definitely not one that like I'm singing along to or like doing chair dancing while I'm listening. Yeah. I agree with you. That's kind of drone. It's thrown in a very pop way. Like, it's not like dirge looking at how we ranked things on this one. This one was very high for me. And it was just under the bubble for you for of not qualifying. And I think that's about right? 'cause I don't know which way this is going to go this one it might come down to staging a little bit just because I found there. Stage performances Slovenian final to be very high school prom with a lot of drama attached to it. But not really not like in a dramatic way. Just being like teen angsty, and yeah that doesn't make for super compelling television. Especially to make your imprint in three minutes or less, right. But what's interesting for me? Is that? So again, we just got done talking about how Serbia we think that what we see is what we're gonna get. This is one where I do of want them to refine what they did. But the thing I liked about this long is the intimacy it feels between sort of the player and singer here where I want it to feel like the those are the only two people in the world like maybe some very simple lighting effects going on kinda him. Just kind of I keep thinking of the x acts in relation to this act, and the excess were very very good about having very simple, very minimal videos for their first two albums where I think this would fit in with that same style as you were talking about the intimacy. Aspect? I'm thinking of the end of Lithuania's entry last year where it's it was a singer. And her husband standing on the bridge if they can capture that mood and expand upon it. I I think that would work really really I want this to. Yes. The stage smaller than usual this year by just want it to feel just very intimate very close just these tomb. And I think that's something that clever camera work could accomplish. Because I think that was part of the issue with the Slovenian finalists like it was a lot of just like shot. Basically. Yeah. Yeah. And if they can have it the much more close up focused, and maybe focusing on the is like that might pull it together or like finish making the sale. Okay. And I could probably get more behind that. But yeah this. This one's definitely a mood. And I feel like I should like it a lot more than I do. And again like it's not that. I dislike it, I just haven't found it to be transcendent or particularly grabbing just yet. I feel like it'd be really negative this totally. It's just that middle of the field thing that middle of the field feel now that we are at the middle of the field. We're going to start with the second half of the first semi-final and going back to the beginning of the bet that puts us at Australia with Kate Miller high keys zero gravity. So we covered Australia pretty extensively the season. They had their first national final ever. And I still think this was the correct one to advance out of their national final. But I'm not as thesaurus it. Now, as I was when it was selected, and yeah, but I mean, I think part of that was they did select pretty early. So there were like thirty five songs came after it. So I think that's to be expected a little bit. But yeah, what what what what are your thoughts on this one? Last time we talked about this. You corrected me and said that this was not opera, this is much more Broadway. And I get that. Now, I've listened I've listened this more times. And I get that. Like, the the way it builds in the opening is I don't wanna see good. I will say interesting, which is which has a mid westerner is terrible. It's nice different. Yeah. My opinion of song has improved since initially because I did not like this long initially. I was very appointed that two thousand or whatever did not take it. But like this has grown on me. And I see I see why at one the the performance heels very dynamic if you'll like something that will capture the I and again, my opinion it has improved. But like, I still have this being the first time that Australia doesn't quite make it. This is another one that feels very on the bubble for me where it could be a very easy placement in the final or can place eleventh. I'm not as pessimistic not the right word. I think this will do fine in the semi-final. They're planning on retooling staging, which is something that I think needed to happen. And I think there's a very strong team behind the song. So I'm not worried about it qualifying. I think it's really going to struggle in the final. Yeah. I know that Australia's goal is to kind of get out of the lower ranking. On the right hand side of the scoreboard, which they've been experiencing the last couple of years. I'm not sure that's going. Yeah. Not sure this is going to do that. So I'm glad to hear that they are kind of retooling the staging of this. Because my my notes for that were like we have seen somebody with a big dress in an equally big voice last year with Estonia, if they were gonna keep like the same kind of big dress thing, I want her in the full harness pop out of that at the end like doing full zero gravity floating around. But there's something about like, the kind of operatic kind of high just doesn't work for me. Still the whole structure of the song does have a surprisingly standard verse than going on. But like the there's like the bridge with nothing holding me down. It just becomes like a lot of elements going on by the end. I think the studio tracks incredibly strong, particularly the the the bridge part of it. But I don't think at least from the national final. I don't think they were emphasizing those parts. Or really allowing them to shy in the way, they need to shy. I I've not seen what the specifics are of retooling. Oh, is it just going to be a different color dress, and like two people swinging behind her or is it going to be a complete reimagining of the staging? And if it's just tinkering, I think it's going to be a problem if it's like a total rehab. I think they have a lot to work with. So this was the one I'm most curious about I think in the first semi final because there's a lot of unknowns. But like what we do know. I'm already excited about. Our final song for today is Belgium's entry which is wake up by Elliott. And one thing that's really popped out. In repeated listens for me. Mike is totally tell this is like these same team that did Blanche's entry from a couple years ago. The same thing in the background, and especially the chorus. I think I I'm just like, oh, yeah. This is definitely that team. Like, I I can I can see their thumbprint on this. Yes. Absolute. And I think that's I most worried about. Yeah, entry. I'm so glad to hear that you're worried about this one too. Because the more I listened to the more like this is kind of generic. Yeah. And I think I kind of find Elliott's vocal to be rather thin like even on the studio version, and I mean, he does have experience being on the voice of Belgium that your vision stage is like it's like even though it's going to be a small stage compared to previous Eurovision stages. It's still a very big stage. And I could like if he's doing the same sort of wispy vocal than he has. As I could just see him getting swallowed up. Yeah. And I have a lot of concerns about this one. And I think part of it is I immediately fell in love with city lights in two thousand seventeen and this one I didn't have that same instant attachment. Again. This whole middle set that we're talking about is just completely middle of the pack. Just bubble city. I could see this one landing exactly in the middle in field to seventeen. That's good news. That means that you qualify. But I don't think Belgium wants to just just get on doesn't want to eke out a placement in the final. This is definitely in the part of the bubble for me where I think it has. I think has stronger chances in like some of the other bubbly entries we've discussed, but I feel like I feel like a bad performance. Be like a surprise out for this. I mean, that's what happened to Belgium last year, and almost probably could have happened in two thousand seventeen. I mean, she. Yeah. 'cause blanche had was like a deer in headlights. Yeah. And if that happens. This year. I don't see there being a second chance with that. Yeah. And which is a shame because I think Belgium's been making a lot of good choices. And yeah, it's just like at the end of the day. If you just make that one bad choice at the very end that that could be don't stick the landing that could be enough to to keep you from qualifying. I find myself like elements of the song when I like I like the chorus kind of get stuck in my brain from time to time, although not not enough. I can like definitely recite the lyrics to you. But like enough, I'm like, okay. This is this is like the the rough melody as a whole the Morris it with the more. I'm just like I have no clue what's going on with this lira Klier and the verses, and what this is trying to say, it definitely captures interest for for the time that it runs, and that's good because I find myself with this pack of songs like I I will I seem to be voting more for interesting because that that means a more interesting show. Exactly, I'll take that over over just safe choices and middle of the road. Ballads. But but it doesn't keep it. And it doesn't really fully burrow into my brain. Like, it really needs to be typical concrete that this will go through. I guess one thing it does have going for it is by being in the second half. And until we get the running order late. It could get placed toward the end of the running order. And if it's the last song to go or the second to last song to go that's really going to help it. But if it's number ten in the running order than there's gonna be some problem. Yes. Oh, purely looking ahead to what we're discussing next week. There is a lot of things that are going to have very strong visual performances. Yes. Not if not vocal performances as well. And if this is lacking in either of those areas, it's at risk if Belgium performs before Iceland does this one just getting completely low. Oh, yes. Yes. Is immediately followed by Elliott who. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. Sorry, elliot. All right. You do a very good job with the song. But also Atari. This is a rough set. Yeah. Like, what what what are your overall thoughts on these five on this pack of contestants? So this is such a weird set of five and like I had I had done sort of a mini ranking of just these five just to kind of catch where where my brain was on these five because they about them in the whole they're kind of just all over the place, and there it's very hard to nail down. I think of the five I like Slovenia best followed by Belgium, then Serbia Poland just sort of drew the short straw, just. 'cause I think I Meyer what is going for. But I think is a very hard sell compared to the rest of the field Australia. I really kinda wanna see what this retool performance looks like what the you know, what the sounds what this continues to sound like live like can Kate Miller had Icke deliver this level performance. Every time I think she can just like all of these feel like the wrong, performance choices. Just sync them. Yeah. Which is really difficult and like not outside the realm of possibility. Twelve other entries in the semi-final. So all five of these could fail. We just thinking through what we've discussed. I feel like we've mentioned things that for each of these acts that feel like they could be the wrong production choice and with the wrong production. It's not even like a high risk hybrid word type production choice. Like, it's gonna be like, oh, you were the red thing. Instead of the blue thing. Like, it's very simple choices like that. That shouldn't be that big of a deal could cause these to sink or swim. Yeah. That's sorry. All five of these acts that we. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like Poland as I said, I think it's gonna come down to what their lives vocal is several weeks before the contest Serbia like we know what the live vocal sounds like. But there's nothing particularly. Citing too far in Poland. Like, how do they sound live? And also is it just going to be a static shot of them? Standing into line singing, the song Serbia shrug Slovenia. I think Slovenia is maybe the like in the safest position of the five. Yeah. Like like you were saying if they can really drawn that intimacy and thinking back to their national final like that audience was into that performance. If they can there there's something going on by they had going on there. I think they are the safest of these five Australia. There's just too much and not enough going on with that one. And yet, and with Belgium, it's not enough going on, and there should be much much more. So yeah, it would be easier. If I strongly disliked any of these songs, but I don't like all. That's what makes it the toughest is that like, I don't actively dislike any of these. This is the heartbreak grew up. The inclusion everyone who f-. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a tagline for this. Title for this episode. Yeah. Anyways, that's gonna do it for this episode of the year what thanks for listening. You're what podcast is hosted by Ben Smith. That's me and Mike McComb. That's me. You can find us on our website at euro, what dot com and on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram at your what we'd love to hear your questions and comments and also if you higher percentage like fifty ish on that your vision natural this week. You can subscribe to your what on apple podcast, Google podcasts. Spotify Stitcher or the podcast your choice rating and reviewing the podcast. When you subscribe also hopes other your vision fans, find us, it's pretty great. So please read us review us we will be back next week to try and make sense of what's new in your visions.
Episode 1: Courtney
"Iheartradio and the US census. Bureau wanted to do something special for the class of twenty twenty, so we made commencement a new podcast with boards of inspiration from the biggest names like Palsy. While we can be sold a lot of things, we will never buy a dream cash. Becky, G and pit bull generational change the world listen to iheartradio's new podcast commencement in partnership with twenty twenty census speeches available now on iheartradio APP or wherever you get your podcasts, remember you can do something that will affect the next ten years so if you lived in a dorm, don't worry. Your school will count you if you didn't visit twenty. Two thousand census, Dot Gov to be counted. What you're about to hear in the following episode does not implicate the Chicago police in the murder of Courtney Copeland. When my son, Courtney was twenty one years old. He got a BMW convertible. He loved that car like it was his girlfriend. He would talk to like the Muni. Bay. Asked her mustache more? The First Time Bay rolled into our driveway. It was late at night. Near has dropped path via Serbia Courtney hit the music blasting all the way. Like a little block part you know in the middle of my driveway. He had the top down. It wasn't even that hot outside, but of course he the top down. Inclined as A beautiful moment, and that was probably one of the most happiest. Mama's. I've Seen A-. Eight hundred number. Down granted federal government just said he was shot. Ems To the twenty at second. Right away. But not even one year later. My son wound up with a bullet in his back outside Chicago police. Station. And there are still so many unanswered questions about what led to the death of twenty two year old Courtney Copeland. Family members say Copeland was on his way to a friend's house when he was shot through his car window a bullet it has banned manage to flag down a police car in front of the twenty, Fifth District station and was rushed to a hospital. The wound was fatal. What you hear on the news that coordinate got shots himself to a police station. Where officers did everything they could to help his mother's heart. Tonight left in pieces. And then there's the troop I believe that not enough has been done to solve needs murder. What relate what would you like? I have done. I personally would have went back and re interviewed. Everybody to make sure have the police. My name is chapelle wells. I'm Courtney Copeland's mom. In this is. Somebody. So. Every day. No Bad snow. Chicago police have one of the lowest murder solve rates in the country, and it's even lower if you're black. So when it came time to find out who killed my son, I knew I'd have to figure it out on my own. I'm going to take you with me. Step by step in my investigation. But first. Let me tell you about my son. You need to know who he was in life. Because? We're going to spend a lot of time talking about his death, ooh! Corny was more a day after my twenty first birthday on. New Year's Eve nineteen ninety-three and they do remember him sleeping on my shift sometimes, and that's my mom, renee. His favorite thing was warm milk. And he talked about that. Term the dock. Grandma still remember the warm milk you give me when I was a baby, and that that was so sweet. What do you remember about the early years you'd have like will jokes and stuff. Here's my husband Brenton corny father. He's raised him since he was four years old. No, in fact like the joke. He told me he was like. What do you call? stolen cheese I said what he said Nacho cheese I like. Like it was kind of. Corny but it was still funny at the same time he had a man rose. have. Jokes that's got got along. Next. goofing off with some of his friends. Today. What's your name? Courtney's pretend to be contested on American idol. He's in the seventh grade. Right at the age where his voice is changing. Go make sense right mail if we. Make it fail. -gratulations calling. Thank you. Go into. Queenie's sure knew how to turn on the charm to get what he wanted. According was kind of a manipulator which you know. He asked me for twenty dollars turnaround and ask you for twenty dollars. And then he was asking council twenty dollars and. Sixty dollars sixty dollars how he would do it and I wish I could do it for him now. According was energetic and Al on I mean he was so handsome. He had this caramel color skin in the most incredible smile, he spent all his money, and I mean all his money on food clothes. haircuts shoes just came back from Wisconsin. She brought me to say good you. Google. After Courtney died I went through his phone. Look coining all those videos and photo and social media. It. Made me feel like he was still right there with me. Really we call them Gucci High School. I don't know if it was because he was fleet, or because he looked like Gucci May, but we. We call them Gucci. One of his friends was a kid named Chancellor Bennett. You might know this guy as chance the rapper. Manjit. Suspended chief and I. Fourteen four hundred eight minutes fans. Dan Hands. Minute that racket. Over Summer School. You know what I'm saying not to. And I hope I hope that doesn't have like a negative connotation and stuff, but like I mean I was in school. Everybody goes summer school, so yeah, he would freestyle with me. We're you know could get after after school and stuff and just be wrapping walking down the street and be boxing and stuff like that. According would always tell me mom. This guy is going to be huge. That was like a thing at the time like I was passing how CDs like I was Brandon CDs. And like stay out of Colombian, he'd be standing out there with me I like he had take CDs and from me and give them other people's stuff to. They went to Jones College prep. It's one of the top public schools Chicago. Coordinate played on the basketball team and he helped them win the city championship. O! When he was seventeen or eighteen, he got a tattoo of a basketball across his chess in a says ball to I fall. I've always hated tattoos because I'm a religious person and I believe tattoos are desecration of the body. When I first saw the tattoo I literally cried and I. Say you just want to hurt your Mama, don't you? The, he got more tattoos including one. That says Mama's boy. How do you like that? Corny got a partial scholarship to play ball in Indiana. But? We can only afford to help him so much, so he had to come back home after one semester he got a job as a janitor and a Dunkin donuts got to ready for work on my God. Put on shoes. Put on my shirt ready for work. He was wandering through life until a friend recruited him into the business. Call World Ventures. Cornelis jobless was sign members for discount vacations. All over the World Corny was determined to go to the top, and that's when I really show courtney turning into a man. That's my mom again. Because of it's positive mental attitude that he developed his change of thinking help. People treated him. He became more of a leader now in just one year, Courtney signed up so many people. The company helped him lease BMW as a bonus. Ventures, wings and wheels. Step one. Get your wings. Step to get your wheels. Horny asked me if I was signed for the car for him. And I told him no way if he wanted to get someone else to help him, that was on him, so he convinced his Frank Christian. Hernandes to cosign. For Courtney the BMW was validation. And, we all love car. His cousin, who's a rapper using his music video. Addicted Thirties. Castle. County. It was just like a typical rap video, sexy girls, dancing all around the guys and money and. Horn is in the video to out that don't. Count that. Horny was living the high life just a few months before he died, he went on a trip to Cancun. Hey. Done right now, blitzer NYC, did something different. Say Yes, I stay consistent. I worked hard I mean this was a trip of a lifetime. He was just like he was on top of the world. He did the Macarena in the hotel lobby. He was scuba diving. Jet Skiing. He was doing really really well getting close to move in my basement and moving in with some friends. No. An it career. At GD, it means owning the opportunity to play a crucial role in transforming how agencies operate, join Gd it for challenging and impactful work that advances your career apply now at Gd it dot com slash careers. Opportunity. After all you've been through the class of two thousand twenty deserves proper sendoff, which is why Iheartradio and Doritos brings you commencement the podcast, featuring speeches and dedications from icons. We admire most here from Halsey. Kids we've shown the world while we can be sold a lot of things we will never buy a dream and pit bull. You guys at generation, Stan don't you guys are generation. Make a difference. You Guys Generation Gold change the world, techy g John, Legend, cashew and Martinez Khalid and many many more all have something to say to you the amazing class of twenty twenty. Twenty choose firmly choose willfully and choose confidently. Listen to iheartradio new podcast commencement now on the iheartradio APP or wherever you get podcasts with a special Doritos Valedictorian episode where Doritos takes graduation speeches to another level by naming five Valedictorians giving them each fifty thousand dollars in tuition assistance and sharing their speeches with the world. You are the ones that's going to make a difference. Here's what I knew about the last day of my son's life. Corny helped a friend move a SOFA. He talked to my mom about become an in home caregiver. The application was due the next day. That day I remember I got my hair done. And that night I caught some of the Republican presidential debate. Look at those hands. Are they small? While I was watching that courtney was given a presentation for world ventures. Around Midnight Corny swung by pies on his favorite pizza place. It's a couple of blocks from a house and CICERO. Just outside of Chicago. He ran into his friend Chris the next day we were supposed to go on a little road trip. We're going to there for the weekend, so we were preparing everything. Courtney Shell Chris this book he was reading. It was called thinking grow rich. He was already on Chapter Three I. Always Tell People this story because fo weird, because he left the regular phone pylons and I didn't even get him my car yet. By. A car and I go but I stood outside the only man. That's crazy, you know. He hit the bones of the car like he's happy. He's reading the book. Corny really wasn't headed home. It turns out. He had this girlfriend a CO worker. He was dating. He was heading to see her. Played this nice so many times in my head. I wish I had taxed I'm like I usually would do to see when he'd be back home. Maybe then he would have just come back to the house. I don't know why I didn't check on him that night. I'm excited, man. Realize because you know that I'm glad highest form recreation before he drove into the city, Courtney posted on snapchat. He's in his car, wearing a red hoodie under his PICO. He looks so happy and hopefully. I can do arm. He's got to believe in myself. His name on snapchat was born leader thirty four. Thirty four was courtney's favorite number. And, the night he died was march fourth. Three four. Hour after he posted on Snapchat, my son was being rushed to the hospital. I am calling because I just received a patient here. Dory are hostile. Call the police and CICERO where I live. And what's in Shannon? His name is Courtney. Copeland, he, O P land. Want. Hostile. He was actually en route to the police station nearby because he had been shot, and then he came in by ambulance. I don't know if you want to tell her. What the nature of injuries yet? Probably Not China. Talk. A little after two o'clock in the morning. The CICERO police came back on our door. When I open the door, he acts me. Did I know according to Coppola? I was already thinking that this. Is. The police told us that Corny was in the hospital. In Chicago, and that's IT and at that point you remember you dropping to your knees here. Mama knew he did. He's gone. They just don't do they don't know this is shown did. I assume that it had to be some type of auto accident because Gordon was always known for texting and driving. I remember my husband Brent driving our families Illinois Masonic Hospital. My mom coordinate sisters. My, aunt, we were all there. We rolled in our town and country minivan, and it was in the middle of the night. I don't even recall any other cars being on the road. Right away. The staff wanted to take us to the family room. But. I knew I knew what the family room was. When they tell you that your kid is dead. And I didn't WANNA go. They sent in this nurse. Very kind nurse! She stayed with me. She held my hand to try to keep me calm. I had no idea then how important she will become to my investigation. That's when the doctor came out and told us the news. that. He had died from a gunshot wound and we were like well. Why why will you mean a gun side? Will Who Saddam? When the doctor said. My Courtney shot. That was an unbelievable. We didn't hear anything else. Everybody drops to four screaming yelling. Okay Oh no, no, no, that was the last thing that we would be. Courtney would be involved in any form shooting because he was not that type of individual okay, and he was a nun violent person. Who would you know? He would not be involved and anyone that would have guns. The doctor told us that when CORNU arrive. They opened up his chest to try to save him. I've been at the hospital for over an hour and I still hadn't seen my son. And you know as a mother. You won't have that confirmation that this is indeed your child. They told me I couldn't see him until detective got there. And I told them I said will tell you right now. If, I can't see my son. I'm GonNa tear this whole hospital up. They finally let us see Courtney. He thought hospital bed. In Trauma, unit. After a few moments. Acts everyone to leave. The head be with him. I had to be with myself. Began to touches. His body was still warm. Across his face kissed his forehead. Sorry I wasn't there for you. When you need to meet a most. And I walked out with room. Then, it really hit me. The coding was gone. I just collapsed. ooh! S- France and our extended family were pollen into the hospital, waiting room. I remember two detectives coming in. They were white in middle aged. And they told us what they knew. They said corning was shot in his car and drove himself to the police station. Corny jumped out of his car flagged down. For help. But the car was still moving. So, the officer told him to put it in Park. So corny back into the car and put the car in park. And then they said the according ran over to the officer again. And grabbed his arm, said I've shot before collapsing. Then came the moment when I thought something more then grief. I felt suspicious. See. The sector said they wanted to ask me some questions. And their first one. Their asked me of Courtney was the owner of the BMW. Remember when I told you that Courtney had to get a cosign for the car. KRISTA Hernandez. Christian's name was actually on the registration and not coordinates. Coordinates been stopped before because of this so when the police asked me if he was the real owner of the car. Started to think. Maybe this was a police. Stop Gone Wrong. You know like for Landau Casteel. UP IN MINNESOTA. Maybe, the police stopped him after running his place, and then a black man, driving a car registered in a Hispanics May as name. The first thing that coordinates friends did is went looking for clues. They went to Belmont Creggan the neighborhood where Courtney was shot. They saw skid marks and some broken glass on this corner near Catholic Church. They scooped up the glass and talk to a neighbor who says she heard gunshots. We put up reward posters all over the neighborhood. So we would would flyers. And we were on the radio. Anybody that can help us get answers. I offered a five thousand dollar reward. Then six thousand. Then sixty six hundred. In the in we put up ten thousand dollars. But we got no answers. We try to keep Courtney story alive in the news so here I am on a local show called Jamaica funk the mole, a little background of Courtney. What what would it courtney do? Quantity was a senior sales were up at world. Ventures travel industry, and he arrived in member of the of the Chicago area, so he wasn't just trying to solve this case. I was also fighting to protect his name. Police say Copeland was not a gang member. They can only guess right now. Why he was shot, he graduated at least that he wasn't a game member. Why was that even a question? I had to do everything I could to protect his image. When reporters asked to use photos of him I made sure he looked his best. Also just don't want the narrative to beat negative about Moss love. He was not that that. Fear okay, so you prefer. We used the picture of him in the talks. That's facebook page. Did this to us. You, turn yourself in. That you. Ask for forgiveness from God looking back at my face on TV that night, he di. Is Literally hard to believe. That was even me. Many. Many. Young. I remember being in so much pain, but I needed to find answers. That was the only way I knew how to keep going. A few people did come forward with tips. One Guy Actually told me he was driving by the police station and saw courtney. With cops just standing around him. This bystander basically told me when he looked at the scene. He felt that the police were doing something to him. And then when I began to press him. Trying to get more information and that's when he was like. You know I don't really want to get involved. You know you don't understand the police around here. They'll come after me and then he finally told me he was like look. I have children. Risk my life to basically tell you what I saw Then, there was a tow truck driver. He took a video. It's hard to make out. But it looks like coordinators laying on the ground outside the police station. The lights are flashing and no one is helping him. One of Courtney's friend, a world venture guy named June fifth got in touch with the toll driver history the Guy Torture says his theory was that the police did it. That was the first Mickey Mouse, minus what he's been saying since the beginning. What? The police told me is that they did everything they could to save him. But you know what? It just wasn't adding up. So, I, said to myself. I just got a bury my baby and lay him to rest. And then I'll find out what really happened. I needed some strength. So I turned according the only way I could any obstacle. You know that you're going through your life today. Understand that will never put you through anything that you cannot handle the reason why they call it a pass because he already went through, remember how i. told you that sense Courtney's death I go through his phone. Guess how he had me listed uh-huh with three exclamation points. As Oh my mom's calling. And you know what? He was right to be afraid. Because when I get onto something i. don't let up. And I'm putting the police on blast right now. I will find out the truth of what happened to my sons. And when I do, the whole, world will know it. So. No bad nut. Somebody is a CO production of the invisible institute. The inner South Topic Studios and iheartradio in association with Tender Foot TV. I'm Shapiro Wells. This podcast is produced by some flowers and Bill Healy Sarah. Guys is our story. Ellen Glover is our associate producer for the invisible institutes Jamie Calvin is executive producer for topic Studios Maria Zuckerman Christie, Grossman in lethal milad are executive producers special. Thanks to Lizzie Jacobs. For the intercept Roger. Hodge deputy editor is supervising producer sound design by Carl Scott Embark warshaw Michael Rayfield is mixed engineer. Our theme song everybody something is by chance. The rapper original music for the podcast by Nate Fox of social experiment and Eric Butler. Additional reporting by SAM. Secolo any win Kahari black bar. Saint Clair Henry. Adams Mathilde vo yet. Dana Roseau's Kelleher. Francis McDonald Diana Arc Margin Mattie. Anderson Andrew firestone and Orissa Taco. Translation support by Bennie Hernandez Combo an immigrant. Fact checking by wall are Jenny special thanks to Chris. Rasmussen Ben Epstein Matt Topic. David Brillo and Julie Wolf. We want to hear from you. Email us at info as somebody podcast, dot, com, or leave us a voicemail at seven, seven, three, two, seven, zero, zero one to one. To learn more about this case, and for links to additional materials go to our show page at somebody PODCASTS DOT com. You can also find a list of everyone we want to thank. So many people helped us along the way. Rene Bach was only nineteen years old when she moved from her small town in Virginia to eastern Uganda. In Two thousand, nine o'clock founded serving his children a feeding program for severely malnourished kids. The NGO quickly grew into an inpatient medical facility. The heroic image obscured a deadly truth. Rene Bach had no medical training. When it comes to missionary work and humanitarian aid in the developing world, what is the line between helping and hurting? We'll find out in the new podcast the missionary. Listen to the missionary on the iheartradio, APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Nikola Jokic and Serbia Get Bounced From the World Cup. Plus: Western Conference Big 3 Picks. | The Mismatch
"Today's episode of the mismatch is brought to you by NBA Two K. This isn't a game. This is a place that game comes to learn next level graphics gameplay Klay Player Control and customization. NBA Two K. Twenty continues to redefine. What's possible in sports gaming plus with Immersive Open World Neighborhood Good to k twenty as a platform players to come together and create. What's next in culture play. NBA Two K. Twenty today NBA Two K. Twenty and welcome to the next welcome to the ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer Dot Com as Kevin O'Connor Aka Kevin Obamacare Kevin O. Concert A Camera Kevin O. Conflict Aka Kevin O. cancelled. They have an opinionated opinionated Kevin. Oh Candy Land Cav Verno after this opening weekend of NFL Games. I feel like there's a strong strong probability ability. Come February we Patriots Cowboys Super Bowl. Our teams could go head-to-head good very very well happen. They both looked extremely impressive. over the weekend we only have got a baby all my guide unbelievable believable. How long does that last. That's GonNa last. You know at least the year the here we yeah no doubt absolutely hundred percent. It's going to be a you think he's going to instagram or you make a Youtube Video Bill Belichick Patriots. The season have their best defense on paper of the decade. They have weapons on offense. They have a good run game. Good offensive line. Tom Brady Still Tom Brady and then you add one of the best receivers ever on top of all that at the already had one of your best teams on paper of the decade a decade in which you've already won three superbowls. This is a team that at least has the upside the upside especially really with an easy early season scheduled to be in the conversation for like a sixteen season. It's unlikely that you need so much. Luck to go your way but this is a loaded roster and I'm excited added if they can get through this easy early stretch. You're GonNa see I take all these morning shows talking about. Can they do it. Can they go undefeated that could happen. Come late October signed signed him up Kevin Clark and Robert Mays. It's Kevin O. Pigskin. Listen to Him we fire. NFL takes right off the bat. I mean look at early season schedule. It's K. O. A. Are you trying to convince you that the Patriots are going to have a good season no no but I'm saying like grays and it's not too early to be like can the CEO undefeated. That's all I'm saying all right. We gotta get to. We only have a couple of weeks before four. Training camps are going to open most of which are going to happen at the very end of September beginning of October for these different teams. There are a few things things that are going on including the World Cup right now. this morning. I got up and I was up early enough to watch Serbia versus. Argentina Serbia had been promoted is one of the teams that could knock off team. USA In this World Cup action because they have bogdanovich because they have Yokich. I mean they got five guys is that our NBA guys and there it was the Argentinians led by the second leading scorer in World Cup History Lewis the goal of they take down they take down Serbia and not only take him down they beat them by double digits and you have Yokich who has five assists five turnovers and his benched at the end of the game because he's eaten alive by the pick and roll of the Argentineans and you have be Alita who is five of seventeen seventeen from the field in that game I mean as a shocking result to say the least Argentinia that is that is a bunch of rough guys. I'll tell you that they played tough basketball and they took that Serbia so that was a pig upset today. Spain was able to hold off Poland so they move on sounded so think it's maybe at the very beginning kind of thought. Greece or Spain or Serbia would be the ones Australia's still right there and they got pros to the United States is not going to have they're going to. They're going to be in some highly competitive. Games have very well still get knocked off but at least one of those teams that featured Richard One of the best players in the NBA was ousted early this morning which was very very surprising very surprising. I mean Argentinians not that. It's is not the team of you know generally and they used to have Andres no Sioni and all these kind of guys they don't have a load of a of of NBA players but they are so congrats. Argentina and Kinda stinks that Serbia with so many MBA guys are not there because I was looking forward to seeing them play against team USA but that's done United States tomorrow against France and they really got to watch out for Nila Keno according to you in regards to the game today I do not see them. Live however was watching highlights lights of Argentina Serbia while we were getting set up here and my goodness Argentina got to the basket will and I know there's some stuff on social about how Yokich got eaten alive on defense how got benched the last three minutes but it seems to me like everybody on this defense just getting attacked it will. Argentina was getting everything at the basket ah but in regards the Oakridge though it is you know one of his weaknesses that he's had in the past is his pick and roll defence and for Denver the season when you think about in this loaded western Western conference in the teams that they're going to face they're going to have to beat to have a high high seed in the playoffs to advance in the playoffs that is an area Yokich which is going to have to improve significantly and the this stretch of games for him. It's another sign that he's still not working needs to be lashed week. We did go through the big three teams that we put together for the Eastern Conference this week. We'll do the western conference but we'll go through the news and notes I other news items that have taken place since we last spoke you had the Anthony Davis article that came mount where he claimed he wanted to win defensive player of the year through wanted him Lebron beyond the all defense team and I think it stands to reason the they need both of those guys to be all defensive teams because they don't have all that much else defensively on that Lakers acres team and certainly Davis has the capability but maybe a little early to start politicking but at least he's planted the seed need and so everybody is going to be on high alert to see how how effective Anthony Davis is on the defensive end of the court now that he has gotten on the team he wants to play on. He knows whatever I mean. I guess he can. I guess he could win. Defensive Player of the year. It's like the same three guys we debate every year ear right trae dream on Dream on Green Pat Beverley get a little more love this year because he'll be on national TV all the time but it's like draymond go Bayer Kawai. Who Do you WANNA pick right like. PJ Tucker will get some love but I mean there's there's honestly like five or six we usually choose from every every year and so Anthony Davis wants his name in the mix and it should be in the mix I mean I think I in regards to like. Just you met we were just talking about Yokich. I do think his flaws are real but I think he's been underrated as a defender in his own regard but I think in a way Anthony Davis this past season has been sort of underrated underrated overall I I I think we quickly forgot how dominant a dominant a player this guy became in the two thousand seventeen eighteen season so now surrounded by by far the best supporting cast that he's ever had would Lebron James on the offensive end would the guys that they have on that roster eighty certainly does have the upside Title Win Defensive Player of the year especially considering the fact that I mean I'm sure Draymond is going to be giving more effort over the course of the season unlike last year but he still does coast a bit more over the duration of the season as does Colli Kuwiat will have load management I'm not sure a wing guy like Paul. George will win over over someone like a d so the Lakers ultimately though do need Anthony Davis to be at his peak levels on the defensive end of the floor over the full duration of the season so I think he's right to put themselves in that conversation already. Another star was in the news and this was because an article that dropped this morning The Wall Street Journal's magazine Kazini Kevin Durant got another profile and he seems happy as ever some days. I hate the players that let the NBA. Hey business the fame that comes with the business alter their minds about the game. Sometimes I don't like being around the executives on the politics that come with it. I hate that yeah I mean and then it talks about. How a deep dive to say the least but what's going to happen. One is there's going to have there's going to be the quotes pulled from it. you know most likely. I would imagine that will be probably dispersed. The most will be the one about Oak Oklahoma City and you know feeling that that Love wasn't real and that he hasn't even talked to them. you know in anybody from there air anymore and the new have you know. I guess the the car quote might come out you know the the motion offense that Kerr runs it only only works to a certain point you know and he had a little issue there but I mean generally. I don't think I mean look the article start art with some days. I hate the NBA and that's GonNa be the one that comes out and but now it's kind of the same stuff expected right. He loves basketball. He loves to play basketball. We love to work hard a lot of the stuff that goes along with being a professional basketball player. He really resent right and I think anything anything that he probably said that was incredibly interesting was probably taken out by the agent. Yeah I do think that Kirk wrote about the motion offense did stick out to me though when reading through at this morning you know when you think about Brooklyn System versus Golden State Golden State runs perhaps the fewest pick and rolls on ball screens over the duration of the season while Brooklyn runs nearly the most host so I I do think Katie's able to return the season or whether he doesn't return next season. Kenny Atkinson system does at least fit what Katie Katie says he prefers you know he himself said in the story so now I had a dive into my bag deep to create stuff my own off the dribble ISOS pick and rolls more so than let the offense create great my points for me so I do think Brooklyn's offense. Maybe we'll we will see KYRI and Katie taking more turns running pick and roll which Katie apparently is exactly what he wants. You have like I said some days. I ate the NBA The warriors. I started to realize just different from the rest of the guys on the thunder thunder. He doesn't trust anybody there. I mean that was interesting. Do you think him saying he said in here about okay see that at some point he wanted to come back to the community to the organization. Tation and then he got treated the way he said he got treated and now he's like hell no never going back do you by that like he would've went back having not been called a cupcake and everything else that came with it or is he just trying to just pour salt in the wound hair. I don't know I think probably I think probably would I mean it is a weird. It's it's a weird deal there. You know I mean I guess the only one that you could well now. It didn't even really I guess Kawais thing but was durant was like the first like totally beloved guy there in Oklahoma City and and that just wasn't so with cou why he was kind of the next group because the you know Parker colonel. He's playing on a team with bonafide spurs legends that people loved and lived in died with for two decades for God's sakes and so the thing is a little different. I mean we don't have cheese. I mean there's not that many that have left the place where you think. Jesus never be welcome back there but the truth is look Nubia. Welcome back there one day same once upon a time. They burned everything Lebron in Cleveland. They weren't exactly closing the door in his face when he wanted to go back. I don't know I mean I feel like a lot of things have hurt. Kevin durant feelings you know over the course of the last several years for hand and you saw the way you know you know it talks about how well you know his new head space and you know people need to stop worrying about if I'm happy or whatever else because but I do think that people take a step back and they go what what is it. You know what I'm saying like. Why are you why also why we're tainted about everything all the time. You know I mean Katie and interesting guy and I I think for him. I understand why he doesn't want people to care about them. But people do care about you. A lot of people look up. Look up to you as a player and as a person you know the greatness. He has achieved his life. I think a lot of people do care that he's happy. I think for him that's I I. I wish that was something that he were able to embrace knowing that people care it. It's a good it's a good feeling when people care so we talked with me. It's like the type of thing with like my dad diagnosed with cancer last night. person. Paul said Hi to me in the street and he was like I wanted to thank you for being so positive with everything after I got diagnosed and it's like it's easy for me to be positive when so many people have been positive to me so many people have been kind so it's it's the type of thing where I wish for. Katie was the type of thing where I know. He gets so much hate. He gets so much hate but I wish the kindness was something that like he reached you know in grabbed hold of because that maybe that would help him in some way and I'm no. I'm no psychologist but Tuck mean I I saw I saw him and I told you many times. I was around Tim during his time in Oklahoma City and he was one of the most beloved figures figures throughout the entire. Mba I mean there there was nobody that had any reason not like him and so he went from virtually universally beloved to universally hated and Y- I'm talking Hayden the sports context writing like people don't really hate him but it probably does feel that way when you care so deeply about what stranger say on social media and it's just and that's the shame of it all because he was one of the most likeable people in the entire league and now you see and it's like okay well. He doesn't like the fans he doesn't like the media. He doesn't like The you know. He doesn't like the guys in Golden State he he doesn't like anybody. You know. Gomez Bro you talk about is everything. You don't like like I mean like in everywhere you go. There's no like like what what what about like. You know what me like you can say. Hey We had some unbelievable times there and you know one day. My number is going to be hanging in those rafters and you know maybe I maybe I wouldn't go back and change anything but hopefully people understand or whatever but instead it was just this recoiling and then this resent towards it's everything and I do think he thought he would be fulfilled. I mean there's that's been chronicled. One hundred timescales talks about that and then it didn't and so but it's like Bro why ah why does he end up hating everything. You know what I mean like. He doesn't like doesn't like his time it okay see wasn't like the guys at Golden State and he's not GonNa Room that all I Bali. He doesn't like being around executives he he doesn't like the media he doesn't like fan and clearly he's going through something. You know he's from within I mean I it's. It's it's easy for us to say like his life is fantastic and he should be happy but clearly there's something going on. You know if someone isn't happy you know and I think Katie I think the way he's perceived. I think from what I've heard he's very much happier than the perception of him. I just think Katie has other interests where he doesn't care boat. The stuff surrounding basketball as he's flat out said I think for Katie him enrich climate has agent had I forget if it was early this year or last year but Katie said he might want to retire at age thirty five and then focus on his other interests and even this even in this story towards the end it said Katie decided to wear number seven because it stands for quote completion in the Bible because God rested on the seventh day after creating heaven and earth because you know completion of his career is is on in his mind. He's thinking about family having children doing his business interests and all that so for Katie. It's the type of thing here where this could be his last stop. This could be towards the end where where he's at the point where he's just fed up with everything else. All He wants to do is hoop and focus on the stuff. He cares about so. I think it's the type of thing where I believe set on this pod before but I've said conversation I I think for Katie. He's chasing something you know externally. He's looking for that external satisfaction whether it's from a championship inch or you know there's something more that he desires than just success on a basketball court and I hope he's able to find it. I do ellison asked around him and everybody. I know that's been around. Him likes the guy. Yeah he's good. He's ID and to be a really good dude. I just don't understand all the interviews appear. He's always pissed always made you know what I mean like it. I found it. Interesting isn't really that surprising. Dude I mean people wake up like like a lot of times then Lugo on social media being native. That's the way a lot of people just aren't. I mean it's okay this. I guess I guess so. I don't think I'm just saying at that to me all right it would be if I was around you have if I was around you. I would expect you to be a positive person because that is what you portray the majority of the time and so either that is you or that's just an act but I've been around. You and it's not an act the same. I'm where you've been around me. I'm generally laughing about stuff and I I see the glass half full whereas I'm saying that is different than anybody. I know that has been around him. He's not I I don't know maybe is maybe maybe his teammates would tell you is dour and negative and not fun to be around and but all in all of my interactions with and the people that I've known that have interacted with him really liked the guy and and don't find him to be a grump all the time. He just comes off like a grump every off to somebody. I don't know if it's the sound cool or to sound. I don't know I I don't understand man him in Cairo. Perfect match though that's how personnel sit around a bitch about stuff all right. I'm excited decided to see how this season goes without Katie early on in Kyri sort of establishing himself as the leader if you will really you want to see how that goes I I WANNA. Just go watch the Boston. It's not fun yeah. We'll we'll see I saw someone tweet this morning. It's interesting. Kyri hasn't put up a single final instagram or tweet or anything single social media posts about the nets. Oh they're right yeah. It's very interesting all right other thing that happened Adrian Origin Ascii had the story big story that that Jimmy Butler drew holiday a mantra zero and Carl towns jared Allen and all these guys that were wearing the Ninja style headwear while they can't do it in a cheese the NBA never had a formal process to approve the headgear but they and they didn't want to cause a disruption by interview for intervening last season but they have notified teams that the headbands would not be part at this year's approved uniforms. It said some members of the competition committee expressed concerns on safety including the looseness of the headwear which is in my estimation totally ridiculous looseness. They produce say you don't like how it looks. This say that they're say you don't like how it looks it. You don't want everybody looking like Ninjas out there. You know like they they don't want them wearing this. Ninja style headwear. They you know what I mean like you. Don't like it that you don't like it and so but the looseness that safety concern white I don't I don't. I don't get like all right so like the. NFL says hey the Odell Beckham junior you keep wearing a frigging quarter of a million dollar watch I could you know it can get caught on something. You know what I mean. I get rich. Somebody's arm up in the in the bottom of about of a pile. If everybody's you know piling on but these Ninja headbands come on man the looseness risk of the headwear safety. I just them hiding behind. Safety concern is ridiculous but I get what did they say in your finger could get caught. Why didn't that band or something yeah. You know. It's odd I I will say this. There's there's a couple of things in life that I love most. I I love listening to pink Floyd. I love inning spoon by H and I also love strolling down in reading Rogge's mentions and in response to this tweet. There's some really good ones and one of my favorite ones was from pinwheel empire and it was a photo of Zach Randolph as a Ninja turtle with this ninja-style headband with the eyeholes cut out and it's like Damn I wish player would just come out like opening like a Ninja Turtle. Here's the truth route they probably they make the NBA headbands. The truth is they probably have figured out a way to make those headbands and make money off of it. That's the truth if they want to sit. Sit around be honest that that's what they should be talking about money. They want to ban or something. We ate and we ain't got time. We don't have time to put together. You know make a budget. NBA uniform headbands everybody wears generally the NBA sanctioned headbands if they wear bands but they're not making get any money off this thing and so now it's like Oh. They're so loose that it could be. SAP So it doesn't make sense it really so that one what happened and then another big NBA reporter Shah Shams Rania he report yesterday in most business. This is just unbelievable and I'm going to read it and I will. I will let you comment because you did comment yesterday. SOURCES COLON MEMPHIS wants three time champion being Andre Iguodala to report to training camp and is refusing right now to engage in buyout which would prevent Egal- from finishing a hall of fame career on his terms because this may be his final. NBA Season is the vice president of the MVP a one of the most of the league's most respected and desires a contender at this stage young rebuilding Grizzlies received a valuable twenty twenty four I from Golden State in the trade and after the Dwight Howard Bhai out were expected to eventually have the same talks with Allah. I'll just read my tweet. The Grizzlies would be foolish to buy out Andre Roger Goodell now and they won't do it after free agents this summer eligible to be dealt on December fifteenth trademark. It could be quite strong free Guatemala. I understand why he would. Allah wants out but but he'll have to wait to join a contender. Here's the deal Chris. The Grizzlies were never buying an entrepreneur Allah. They will never buying him out. It was never a conversation. It's not something that's going to happen. Even even if Andrea goes full Antonio Brown Fall Antonio Brown punting the basketball yelling at the front office telling the new coach that he looks like tyler park from the ringer even if he does all this. They're just going to send them home. Keith bogans style style like the Celtics did back there by him out if if he wants to give back a massive amount of his contract trek does he want to do that. A. I would I would assume that if he wants to give back a massive amount of his contract as to free up that space then so we Dwight Howard just did he gave a pretty good some I dunno I dunno Shirley. What are you Shirley. If you're a good alibi you sure like if you're the grizzlies you would still buy them out or you better off waiting until December fifteenth and you better off if he wants to give back AH massive amount of his contract you would do you think he's willing to not make of that eighteen million you know what I mean and here's the thing this what bothers there's me. Bro Blamed Golden State blame them. If you WANNA blame somebody don't frame this grizzlies the bad guy you know what the Grizzlies did. The Grizzlies sent Marcus Oda Toronto the Grizzlies sent Mike Conley Utah Golden State sent go to Memphis. Don't play hey don't blame the grizzlies blame the warriors for him being in the situation that he's in but I mean he got traded to the team and so now he he is an asset with value and I do think I have said this to you. I do think he could change the trajectory of a team team. especially if you're talking about the Lakers you have all these big market teams think that the small market teams should just be a farm team for them and and generally it's because they can get their way right. You know 'cause coincides in. La and that Anthony Davis just wanted to get to the Lakers despite the fact they weren't even a winning team last year the but they think that that's how these other teams should function do what's best for them. Why on Earth with the grizzlies pay eighteen eighteen million dollars for Andrea would play for Lakers of the rockets that is just insane. What are we talking about here. Why would they do that. That's what's projected out there by. Shams by putting out this tweet which might as well been written by an agent you know like the grizzlies confusing to engage in a buyout like you could frame it. RENDRE GOODELL is refusing to show up to training camp to play for the team team. That's about to pay him eighteen million he's not he's refusing. Michelle to drink. That's not a scoop Israel he he is going to show up. I I'm sure that he is not going to be a trade great again. I would imagine interesting you think he's GonNa show up. I mean he I guess he should. I think you should show by Wrigley Rally want him. There all pissed off. I mean I I mean. I don't know if he's Christoph. He might not be pissed off he he might just show. This may simply be see. You know just putting it out there. You know through shops that hey you know like like here's the other day Howard beale. Nobody wanted to White Howard like there wasn't a trade market for Dwight Howard whereas if you and Igwe he he could I mean especially when you're talking about the clippers of the favorite and they got these. You don't think somebody having dollar would be beneficial when you're having to face as Paul George and Kawhi Leonard Yeah. Of course it goes without saying and that's why that's exactly why the grizzlies went by him out because it would be stupid to buy him out considering the fact that come December fifteenth when all free agents that were signed. The summer are eligible to be traded. You're going to see two types of teams pop up on a on the potential trademark dollar a contending teams that have a salary sorry that has that could work with adults eighteen million dollar deal teams that could immediately that Ego Dala and we need him to advance in the playoffs to bolsover their chances of a finals or be. You'RE GONNA see teams that have a long-term salary to dump that are willing to put a first round draft. Pick a future Paik. You know a young player along with that salary. Valerie and then the grizzlies would take on that salary while the other team would take a dollar and likely cut him or flip him and in that case equal either way at some point. This season is probably going to get what he wants. With landing on a contender might not be the Lakers it might not be the clippers where he would rather sign after a bio but there is a possibility though if it ends up being that a team trades him within a salary situation the salary dump and they buy him out he he would all come. March could get his wish going to. La Teams serving that that is where you go and you know. Abi a real trip is if somebody like you know say like a Minnesota. Minnesota says you know what we'll just give up. you know. Gordon Chang will give you a pick two because we WANNA make the playoffs we we won't be got it and then and then you're in Minnesota but let me just make this clear row. I it's it's annoying when stuff is reported with such opinion involved in this it is not the Grizzlies Preventing Audrey Guatemala from finishing his career in a in a great situation it is the warriors were prevented him. Technically IT IS MEMPHIS. It's just it's on the grizzlies because the warriors try no yeah. I know but like it doesn't to me. It's it's just it's truly. The Grizzlies are preventing that just doesn't matter to me that the preventing they have the right to prevent him from playing for a team that he wants to play for. They have him under contract because they acquired him via trade. I mean th there within their full rights to do that. We live in a different world now. Though where people can sudden suddenly suddenly feel bad for somebody short that is getting paid eighteen million dollars you know what he is so respected and so beloved that the grizzlies should be willing to pay him eighteen eighteen million dollars to play for the Lakers. I mean that is so dumb. It is unbelievable a surprise me the amount of support for Oregon Allah in this case following the report from shops gives away its frame. Well no it's not. I don't know if it's just the way it's framed. Don't don't realize what the buyout means jeans and basically they they don't if you sat down and explained the most of the people that see that you understand what that means that they were. GonNa pay him eighteen million dollars to play for another team. Most people would be like wait. Wait like if imagine shops framed it like that. Igwe Dolla wants to negotiate abiout but does not want to give up much of that salary meaning. The Grizzlies would have to pay him eighteen million dollars to play for another team. How many people people you think are supporting that. Oh that makes all the sense in the world they should do that. Hey man do that's part of the game. That's part of the game I that's one of the reasons why is one of the best and only getting better at a young age and the reporting game that is for sure so we will see the way that one all plays out but I agree with you. It'll probably be later in December and he is certainly something worth trading for I think inquiry when it comes playoff time one that he is a player because of his championship pedigree and because of his still his defensive defensive ability and his ability step up in the playoffs and in big games he is still somebody that could tip the scales he really could especially when you're talking about the best players being wings on a couple of these teams that we think are the favorites. people will want him. You know he is a desirable commodity. It's not like you know the Dwight Howard thing or some some other players that get moved or moved or get bought out the reason they get bought out is because you want the roster spot fight and nobody's willing to give up anything forum you know and so you just gotTa try to find you. GotTa figure out a way that you know not have them. Under eighteen all right last week we did the Eastern Conference Big Three in honor of the Big Three and ice. Oh Joe the League's. MVP winning winning we put together big three teams for every Eastern Conference team going to quick break and on the other side we'll go through the western conference will do that. After these words I will get right back to it. I want to remind everybody. Today's episode brought to you by floor and decor. Don't miss out floor. Decor is the only one stop shop. They keep general contractors flooring specialist and renovation experts ahead of the game. Thanks to their fully stocked warehouse heart surface flooring. No job is too big job. Lock wanted tile wood and stone or in stock and available for convenient worksite delivery and they're dedicated pro services team is here to help make it easy for you to run your business offering everything fourteen day product storage financing solutions to express pickup sign sign up for pro premier reward automatically rack up points. You can exchange for prizes plus. You'll have access to over fifteen discounted services to help you grow your business. Explore your local Florida cord and discover how quality flooring products at everyday low prices can completely change your gang visit floor into core dot com today to locate the core nearest you score savings and service. You won't find anywhere else. That's floor and decor dot com. I Kevin so last week. We came up with our big three teams that we would put together. NBA teams had a big three tournament dement. Who would they send to represent them and we did the eastern conference which wasn't all that hard but a couple of them got a a little bit dicey or are we at least had to make decisions the western conference. I mean this was an exercise that when you think about who the three guys are are we even debated say. Milwaukee is the favourite and and we debated who their third guy would be right yeah it just shows you the strength of the Western in conference when you go through these teams and you're like my God like their third best player is good on virtually every single team. The third best player player is a really good player. it's the type of thing where last night after. I watched Bachelor in paradise. I had to pull an all nighter figuring out these teams. James is pretty stressful man especially after that episode of Bachelor Paradise Good Stuff last night dean coming back who for medical order in the Western Lake we start with Dallas so Luca Porzingis. Who are we going with the third. Are we going with Tim. Hardaway Junior. We go in with the lawn right. Seth Curry Seth Curry Curry. That's my pick can space the floor when Luca has the ball he can run pick and roll with Luca or KP. I mean what a dynamic trio that would be a and I look forward to seeing those three sharing the floor at the same time this the regular season. I mean like we talked about Dallas recently. Chris and I. I seem to be really good really really good. They need to take a leap. KP to be the KP we saw for the first ten years of whatever this. I'm excited about Dallas. I'm excited about everybody. There's a lot of teams excited about Chris. I know about this last week. Yokich who got benched for Serbia against Argentina got to put him on the team Marine Zoom Jamal Murray and then are we doing Gary Harris. Yeah I thought about this in Denver is one of those teams where they have so many options. They have a lot of depth man. I I love. I love Beasley now. That is a good by the way that's a good contract to your guy right. Now is going to get paid. A lot of Beasley Allied Florida state. He's he's really he's. He's turned into a good player. We'll be good in a big three typesetting to the main yeah. That's another guy there but I think we gotta go with. I think we got harrassed. especially you know 'cause the defender that he is. We've got to throw him on that team. Golden State it's Curry Klay and Draymond. I mean that's the most natural last week. We had two guys who were hurt. Klay right can't be thrown onset of clay yeah. I guess we're throwing Russell on their diangelo Russel Do you think the Ngelo Russell has a better season this year than last year. I mean probably not with raw numbers like such as points per game which who cares I do thank he'll be more efficient. I think we're GONNA see more of his off ball prowess that we haven't seen since Ohio state and that's exciting to me so I do think overall. He'll be better to me. One of the things I'll be watching for is like how much more effort is giving the defensive end the floor. Hopefully quite a lot more right with Houston. We're going westbrook harden and and do we want Tucker or a Cappella Tucker Tucker for big three. I think for Big Three. We have to have Tucker with you speaking of that. Do we take another bulldog on. I guess we got our choices on the next team. which is developers? 'cause they got tons bulldogs. We've got Paul George but we're not using Paul George because he's hurt right. I mean he I think he counts okay all right then we'll count when I when I said on the spot a couple of weeks ago that he could miss the first six weeks of the season. That's that's just what was some talk the summer that he can miss six weeks. I mean all right I I don't. I don't see I did see a report that he was shooting around. which is a good sign? hopefully is ready for opening night but I think if you line them up all on a wall and you said all right take. Did you pick you pick Lou Williams but is it Lou Williams. Is it Mantras Herald. Is it Pat Bev. I think I would go go with Louisville here really yeah I would bucket gin bucket koetter yeah and the other two right Paul George. They both rebound board man gets paid. Colli can do that I mean I think that's fair the Lakers. Here's we have Lebron. We have Anthony Davis. I feel like we need to put Jared Dudley pitcher. He had her with the big three they of shutout Danny Green Jared I would I would take Danny Green in all seriousness really yeah no would would you. You'd rather Danny Green Than Kacoos yeah unless Kyle Kuzma shot has actually improved which will see in preseason and regular season but I'd take what is Kyle Kuzma ceiling in European so Kyle Kuzma was a guy. I didn't love him the drafts I missed on him. I was wrong but I think the evaluation when was sound in the sense that he doesn't do a lot else other than score. He's a theoretically versatile of offender when you look at his body and his size but he doesn't he doesn't produce the defensive and I would love to see Kuzma become a plus defender consistently to me if he's able to do that that raises a sailing as a two way player because the scoring is already there volume sense so if he can improve his efficiency as a score in regards to improving three point shooting consistency as well as becoming a plus defender than his sailing as you know I mean what is that like a top forty five guy in the league something like that these already a good player. Is it a do. You think that there's a reasonable chance he's the third best player on the Lakers. Yeah I would say there's a reasonable chance he should be the third leading scorer wouldn't you imagine should be the third links. Goria but but third best players a different conversation I that's fair yeah all right speaking of the next team the Minnesota Timberwolves Townsend wiggins. I guess what throw them with. Covington is that we need. If we're GONNA HIT over Memphis always oh I'm sorry I missed the grizzlies all right MEMPHIS MEMPHIS MEMPHIS would be Probably we John Moran Jae Crowder Jaren Jackson Juneau. I got djalmir. Ans- Jaren Jackson Junior hundred the love it. That's my team. It's J. freaking crowder. Come on crystal. I Love Jae Crowder he's fine. Wait hold on now. Let's see prior to the playoffs which by the way crowder ended up starting in the playoffs crowder was way better than over the course of eighty two games you know. Andrea goodell average like six points a game last year. I don't care about his sleigh. Forget about the raw numbers it's about the players capabilities and Jay Jay crowder. I mean is a good play. Jae crowder not the caliber of decision maker passer that eagle is an email is a far better defender plenty playing at peak levels clutch player head and shoulders better than JAE crowder. I don't think right now he is crowder had like a one really good season with Boston and other than that he's been thinking about Andrea Guatemala as it was years ago and the one game winning shot because he he made that game winning shot or the game tying shot in that playoffs and then he was like one for next fifty you for real. I mean like Yeah Yeah. He's he's inconsistent shooter. You're right so it wasn't Jae crowder but he would house better at everything else everything else. I don't agree absolutely everything else. Jay crowder versus Andrea would because I drink dollars old now. This is not the same player he was. You got your thinking of Andrea Allah five years ago. Go look at the look at what he did. I guess if you don't want to act like if you want to act like the numbers don't exist we can. It's not about the then I'm I'm going to bring this up. Every time you bring up. Somebody's numbers don't look at their numbers Kevin. No you're talking with you. I'm saying you can't look at Andrea with Allah's numbers and make the case for career. He averaged he averaged four point four shots for game five four seven points per game so what he's playing on a team with a bunch of superstars that are taking all those shots. It's the type of thing where if I go dollars getting ten shots per game. He's GonNa score more points per game. Raw numbers are not the number one day and also like that's not the key reason why you have on your team. It's not for points at defense. It's for passing for facilitating so all of the other stuff stuff that you would have him on your team other than scoring. It's great for Golden State. That's for sure a great great so he'll be a great great player for a couple of months for the grizzlies yeah. I bet he won't even show up. I hope he does because I'd like to play golf with him. He's a scoop. Is that a coup Christie now so that we don't know is it. GonNa show up. Do you think you send chums out there to report that if you if you want to show up he doesn't want to be in Memphis. Maybe that's the next step pulling Eric Bledsoe send out the I don't WanNa be here. tweet was just a hair salon. He already has already had no. He tweeted out new slaves the Kanye West Song. That's what he tweeted out and see that well. That was a couple of months ago interesting yeah sorry after the trade you have to the tree and see that Minnesota Carl towns Andrew Wiggins Robert Covington you for ratings on that team sure you. WanNa put wiggins on that. You don't what I was thinking about this the other day. I think he's gotten shit on too much. He's way overpaid but he's not like I mean I think it's gone a little far like he is the boom of all bums. He's not the bom of all bombs. Come on now. I mean he's look. He's way overpaid right way overpaid. I think we all can agree on that but I don't know it's gone a little far. I think little for who we all right you pick the player that you'd rather have than him the towns and Covington for shore. I think you have to go jeff teague in that case for the ball yeah wow how all right let's get to the entire. Russell thinking about stuff that didn't happen. That would have been fun for them. I wish they had been able to Pelicans are a tough one. Were thrown on there. I think you want Ingram on their holiday and holiday not even a question okay. Look I think Jay would get a look over Ingram. That's possible shut off of JJ redick getting off. Social media did city so he's been out for like a year now no more social. I really noticed over ooh. Wow Adam Danilo Gallinari. I Have Chris Paul All ESTA Gallo. That's my team going small ball hair now. I can't get a rebound. I understand you can't get a rebound with that team all right all right now this one. I think we're going to break ways phoenix. I have L. Yeah. I have Aaron Baynes Cam Johnson and tied Jerome. They lost thousand not used to the losing your ridiculous. They haven't gotten used to losing gone. John Booker saroj eight and three winners three winning players first round loss in our big three tournament a Portland. I look forward to seeing Dario. Phoenix of course could be some ball handler opportunities there finally. I you know what I was just thinking the same thing. I can't wait to watch dory. Oh wait five years oven Wheaton Years Chris for Darya SAR. Get Opportunity as a ball handler on the break. I thought that would happen in Minnesota you. I understand why it didn't happen. Philly because Ben Simmons there and the transcendent player that he is but here in Phoenix that opportunity potentially be there. Maybe way overrated playing in Philly Cassara is good. It's a fine player Portland. think we know the two. Lillard mccollum but who are we putting with them for swimming. We cannot do Nurkic. Are we going collins or we go in Hassan whiteside Rodney Hood. I think call we need somebody that can rebound. Thank Collins all right. I'm fine with that. Do you think do you think whiteside has a chance to have a bounceback year here imports yes and just because he's such the like of course you can bounce back Matt. What did the opinion what I mean is. Not What does well. I don't mean I don't mean tip tilling over this low bar. I mean getting back to the guy a couple of years back when he was actually a really good player. Is there a chance of him reaching that level that that's what I mean probably not. I would say probably a fire in the belly thing and I think he got the fire is in the belly right now because it is he's a it is a year for him where he can become a free agent next summer he will be afraid next summer. I should say this is a contract year. It seems like a classic in case of a guy who's GonNa give maximum effort and see if next year he gets paid again and that'd be an ultimate risk for a team. I think he he has is to give it this year. Otherwise you won't get paid yeah okay choice. He fools everybody one last time. I don't know if he's GonNa fool I don't they. Anybody's GonNa get fooled but I do it's possible but I do think he's going to try to fool everybody. Okay is if your question is do. I think he could fool somebody by playing awesome first season. Yes I think that's a possibility orlands interesting if he does manage to fool everybody. They're interesting anyway better than we think they're going to be seriously. They are like we go into the season and they're better than we think they're going to be and that teams coming off a it will be a little bit different because it is different for teams that are coming off of their best season ever right right and that was they finally broke through and got to the Western Conference finals and so it will be a little bit different this year than it has been in in the past year. They're kind of been the team that you know. Nobody nobody again. Okay they win some regular season games but so what they get bounced in the first round of the playoffs right but now they will have different target on their back then maybe before Sacramento Bagley Fox Are we going healed on the wing for we're going he'll. I wish we could just go with Fox healed bogdanovich. I wish we could that be fun. What what is your problem with Marvin Bagley. I've no those I on this. I'm just I'm just saying I love that's all I'm saying I'm nothing against Bagley. Bagley is is going to have a monster season this season watch watch what I say. Watch what I say now to watch. It will just like you said Mark. Sean Brooks better than trae on now. Better numbers kicked out forever ever. I'm only kidding. Bagley is good bags. Get Him. He's the he's the choice air. I'm just saying I wish we could go super small with Fox healed by Donovan for this exercise. We're going through lamarcus. Aldridge demartin arose in Turkey. I think I take patty mills after this well. You know maybe it's been so good. What are we. Where are we on John. Jay Murder. I'd go I'd go Derek Whyte because of the defensive ability and the you more potent offense than Murray even the Murray. He probably has higher long-term upside. I'd go with Derek whyte here. Who are you hire on Murray or wight today white. You know what's crazy just looking at this is look at the roster which I didn't necessarily realize you know dependent upon how long guys are in college but white is three years older than Murray entries. He's old old. No wonder he's good. He's the he spent a played a division two before transferring to Colorado Division One. I mean it's quite a story for him. One team left the Utah Jazz and I. This is an interesting one. If we're putting together the big three because you wanna go with two of their best players with calmly and Donovan Mitchell or do we want to spread it out more so that you've got like Joe in goals with Akon Layer Donovan and then Gobert have a big gap with them commies on there for sure and I and I think you've got to put go bear no doubt about that because oh how about this volume Bogdonovich Joe Ingles. We're talking over Mitchell hair for doc for big three team yeah if we if we took a wing instead. which would you rather have anyway? I think I'll go joing on this case over back. I go with Conley ingles. Go Bear and that's a that's a strong big three here. The jazz are loaded man. I mean this is a really great team. What about what about for the season would you rather have bogdonovich or ingles ingles probably because the playmaking and he's better on defense than Bogdonovich is. They're different players man like those guys when you really think about it they complement each other pretty nicely. Bogdonovich being more of the the score ingles can do facilitating team odd man just look at the young you can even mentioned Royce O.`Neil in there as a player this. This is the thing that happened with the jazz. Their stuff happened early so we talked it up early right and then and then the clippers crap happened and then the Lakers stuff happened and that happened like later down the road and so they got talked up and they all got elevated and so but I I mean I think you and I were both very high on the jazz after they made their free agency moves and still remain that it just kinda got they would have been they would have continued to be a big talk about a team that was a good team saying that even improved more and made some really good moves except for the fact that such superstar stuff took place but I like them you no. I like them. Ed Davis I liked by Donna Vich. I was not create. I'm obviously not crazy about the jeff green thing or the moody thing. You're a big Jeff Green and fan. Let's let's not hide it here. You Love Jeff Green that is how many Jeff Green Jerseys do you have none. I don't know about that. I might send you get like Jeff Jeff Green Jeff t-shirt. No you won't you send me a song homes sixers. This'll be the eighteenth coach to love how it looks in practice actress put him in the game be like Oh. No that will give them this. You play you played good for the cavs. He's had some thirty four games. Here's what I know. I know Tony Al and you know tore. We're up his hamstring and they proceeded to get put Jeff Green in the lineup instead of Tonio and the Guppy by thousand. You Got Tuesday's Tony Today on your local. Sorry Oh it's I don't know in Wednesday's. He's actually you know what you call them up Kevin. He's out there with. You realize doing rehab thing in in. La Guy should get together. Wait leap for real. La So dated there. Paul Pierce is out there a bunch of guys. I thought you had him in studio last week unless he just it comes back he goes back and forth so you are going to still have Tuesday's Tony. It's okay so it's just this week though 'cause you can't change Tuesday's Tony a Wednesday. I know we can do whatever we have to. Unfortunately Kevin is always a pleasure. We only have a few more weeks. The training camp is going to open once you caress your Devon Booker bobblehead until we speak again. I'll be watching watching bachelor in paradise watching Fiba watching football. WNBA playoffs leave a lot coming up before September thirtieth. Which is I think me day for most if not all teams so that's exciting man coming really soon. I'll talk to you next week. Thanks see across. Thanks to everybody for listening to another edition of the ringer. Mba show dig what you're hearing rating interview on Itunes Five Stars Five Stars really helps them. We we'll talk to you next week the Sir.