20 Episode results for "Senior Manager"
Tan Mom & Adam Barta Debut Their New Song Glossy The Howard Stern Show
"The Howard Stern show all right here. We go MOM's new hit Song Glossy for your listening pleasure. Oh my God just want suggests senior manager Joe. Millionaire verbal will make an glossing tall mccollum coma. I was on the floor. Art Van Agenda Guinea more free with Needle Dick Dictate me with your native. And you're all I do not get along drug them now. Same and Robin. Yeah Okay we get it I gotTa tell you for the couple of minutes it was on. I forgot about the corona virus stern show.
274 - How To Make A Comeback After Youve Let People Down
"Welcome to the marie forleo podcast the audio version of my award winning show murray t._v. t._v. Now be sure to visit murray four leo dot com slash marie tv where you'll find hundreds of other episodes. Thanks for listening and one more thing can three words change your life though hell yes they can and they will whether you want to leave a dead end job. Breaking addiction fiction learned to salsa healer relationship grow a business master money or solve world hunger the three words. You need our way for it. Everything is figure out you know that little phrase changed my life and it's the title of my new book which is about to change yours preorder. Everything is figuring out now and save that receipt because it's your ticket to an incredible incredible online coaching experience designed to help you rewire your brain for success. It's a brand new program that you can only get if you preordered the book before september tenth. Order your copy now at everything figure out -able dot com. Hey it's marie forleo and you you are watching murray tv the place to be if you wanna create a business in life you love 'em. This is q. and a. tuesday. Today's question comes from ben and ben writes. Hello from south africa. Thank you so much. Your videos are an endless source of motivation. You are so welcome bent. I'm not yet thirty but i've worked my way fairly high up within my company. I'm the youngest senior manager and have worked tirelessly to build a solid reputation but unfortunately last year my physical spiritual and and mental health took a dive. I got through a serious illness and burnout but in the process i dropped so many balls missed so many deadlines and let so many people down. Luckily i was able to get back up. I just wish i could say the same for my reputation. I fear i've lost the respect of my business partners and that the damage may jeopardize future the opportunities. I've reached out to people to explain what happened but i fear him no longer being given the chance to prove myself. How do i rebuild trust with my business partners and colleagues. Thanks so much ben ben ben ben ben ben ben. Ben greets question. You've got an every human being on earth makes mistakes sakes however it is possible to make a comeback now. I know you've said you've explained your behavior but i'm curious. Did you do it in the most effective way if i were you. Here's what i do number. One take a walk in their shoes. I i'd list all the people that i let down and the exact ways that might behaviour affected them tom. This is a great tool to allow you to see everything from another person's point of view which is awesome for communicating more effectively number to have a heart to heart and put it in writing doesn't matter whether it's in person or over the phone you just want to start calling your peeps and you can say something like as you know. Last year was rough and mom. I'm thrilled to be back in may be hard for you. Trust me again. I apologize for the problems. I caused and you have my word. It will never happen again. I'm committed to this company and to wit success in fact. Here's my plan to make sure it never does and here's what i'll do to make it up to you. If you'll give me the chance after you've had the conversation follow up with a thank you note and on reiterate what you said remember. It's one thing to say. You're going to change a whole other thing to put it in writing number three. Don't talk about it. Be about it it. Maybe a cliche but actions do speak louder than words so don't let your mind screwing with you. Don't think about what other people think just commit to being a pro. I want you to remember this and yes. It's a tweet oval. Positive action is the best way to put your mistakes in in the past ben. I know you're that people won't give you a second chance but i'll bet you can get them rooting for you. Remember everybody loves a great comeback ben. That was my eighty year q. I hope it helps now. I would love to hear from you. Have you ever led a bunch of people down. How did you make your comeback and on the flip. Side has someone whenever let you down and really come back strong. What did they do. I would love to hear your story as always the best discussions happen after the episode over at marie eight four leo dot com so go there and leave a comment now. Did you like this video if so subscribe and share it with your friends and if you want even more great resources to create a business in life that you love plus some personal insights for me that i only talk about an email. Get your buns over to marie. Leo dot com and sign up for e mail updates. Stay on your game and keep going for your dreams because the world needs that special gift that only you have thank you so much for watching and i'll see you next time on murray tv. Hey one more thing can three words your life. Oh hell yes they can and they will whether you wanna leave lebed dead end jobs breaking addiction learn salsa healer relationship grow a business master your money or solve world hunger the three words. You need our wait for it. Everything thing is you know that little phrase changed my life and it's the title of my new book which is bound to change yours preorder. Everything is figuring well now and save that receive because it's your ticket to an incredible online coaching experience designed to help you rewire your brain for success. It's a brand new program that you can only get if you preordered the the book before september tenth order your copy now at everything is figure out -able dot com.
Ep. 1: Germ Free Mice (Eureka's Sounds of Science)
"Hello. I'm Mary Parker. And you are listening to Eureka's sounds of science. Germ free mice. You may have heard the term. But do you know what it means in micro biomarker, search or the study of all the microbes that live inside of us? There could not be a more important animal than the germ free mouse in order to do these studies in Waco bio, it's you need to start with an animal that has no microbial and animal that's referred to as exceeding an exotic animal comes from the Greek meaning no strangers. So in exotic mouse has nothing in it. The does not mouse in the real world, we are constantly surrounded by countless living organisms, even ordinary lab, mice are exposed to everyday microbes in their food and bedding. But for the extraordinary germ free mouse this presents a problem in a world where bacteria, viruses, and fungi are everywhere. Keeping these animals Germ-free can be very difficult so special. Methods need to be employed to make sure that the scenic animals stays. Senior manager rich Morin and his team at Charles rivers transgenic facility have developed autoclave cylinders to both clean and deliver food and bedding to germ free mice these cylinders allow any material that needs to be introduced to the mouse enclosure to be steam sterilized and delivered to the isolated cage without being contaminated. If you're going to steam sterilized something the package needs to allow steam to penetrate, but not allow contaminants penetrate. So that's why we use the place on. What a supply cylinder is is a steel cylinder of it's opened up one end. And around the sides Zoolander. There are small holes. We take those holes we wrap them in a filter material. And then we put us applies in. And then seal the open into the cylinder. What this allows us to do is put it in the autoclave and the steam will penetrate through the Heff Ilgar get to the food sterilize food. But then once you take the cylinder out of the autoclave. They have a filter prevents any contaminants from getting back into food. The open ended cylinders are assembled with the feed or betting inside and once wrapped with the hippo filters. They are ready to be autoclave. The open end is sealed with plastic and the cylinders are sterilized steam can enter through the filtered holes, but no contaminants can penetrate the filters the real value of these rap cylinders can be seen after they are sterilize. Used their sealed design prevents the material inside from risking contamination on its journey from the autoclave to the mouse in closure. The cylinders are then attached to the enclosure and are ready to be emptied. When it comes for the food or bedding to be delivered to the animals will take the cylinder. We would attach sterling to the port of the isolated. And then once the sterile attachment is chief d-, then you can reach in from inside the sterilize later poke through the plastic, and Roger supplies and pull sterile supplies into the ice later without contaminating, according to rich. Steam sterilization has been around since he started at Charles river in nineteen seventy nine what makes this process new is the need for even cleaner, mice gamma radiation can be used more easily for many research projects, but it cannot meet the sterilization requirements of Germ-free research at this point where gamma radiation has has been proven not to be sufficiently effective. I'm not aware of any other technology out there that would give us truly sterile, especially in the feed truly sterile. The feet is real challenge because of the density of of the of the feed biscuit itself, it's a real challenge to get that sterile. And I'm not aware of any methodology. Besides good old steam that's on the horizon for us able to achieve truce to really fiv Betty. Despite their best efforts. No process is perfect to keep the mice Germ-free richest team submits to extensive quality control tests that act as a failsafe against both quit -ment and human error. Once a year the equipment is subjected to cycle validation to prove that the autoclave is getting up to the correct temperature and maintaining the correct pressure and process validation to ensure the auto Clave process is achieving the desired results each bag of feed and bedding is also fixed with temperature indicator to make sure the proper sterile temperatures were reached finally they use self contained bio- indicators filled with g-o-v oscilloscope bacteria, which is known to be a specially difficult to kill with steam the containers of bacteria are incubated after the autoclave process in twenty four hours. We pull them out of the Hugh baiter. And if the color has changed fr. From purple to yellow we know that there was back period growth. Meaning we know that we did not sterilize the load. So obviously if we had bio-indicators in every cylinder in the load. We would have to pop up in the cylinder to get the bio indicators out to test them. So what we do is we use a sacrificial cylinder. So there's one cylinder dead center in the load, and that has the bio indicators in it and the fee are betting the comes out of that cylinder just gets thrown away, but small price to pay for the security of knowing that you sterilized load. Thank you for listening to this episode of Eureka 's sounds of science.
Do what others wont! PODCAST
"Hello and welcome. My name is Greg Martinelli. And this is the egg sales professional podcast. The purpose of this podcast is to make you the best salesperson or sales manager possible in agribusiness do what others won't part two of the greatest quotes from one of the greatest leaders will last time we went over one of the great quotes that had stuck with me and that was when in doubt Prospect and if you haven't heard it or you haven't read it, please go back to the website and click on the link you that the podcast or the blog the second key learning that I received from this leader wage was based on a discussion about success. He had was successfully managed and led several big turnarounds in the company as well as several difficult projects. We discussed why he took on such challenges were so many had failed previously. He gave us this career advice do what others are not willing to do it was almost a throwaway type, He didn't Focus On an in our discussion, but it stuck with me and later on. I had several more discussions with him on this concept. He started his career by taking on one of the largest mergers and Acquisitions the company home made in decades the success would certainly reflect greatly upon the president of the company obviously, so would the failure so success was extremely important in this project and for this mayonnaise or failure would be career-ending. So why did you do it? I asked he said first of all, I wasn't really asked but secondly, there were some more senior manager who didn't want the job the risk to their career could be devastating. I had confidence in my abilities to manage and Lead it and I looked upon it as an opportunity versus a curse. Well later on he would end up taking a lead on one of the poorest performing business units in the company, not only poor-performing but it had a history of grinding up managers and spitting them out so they could in quotes seek other opportunities. Outside the company if you know what I mean within a few years he had this business unit on stage at the annual meeting winning business unit of the Year again the conversation that day went back to the question. Why would you take that job? And again, he mentioned it really was an optional but it was also afforded him the opportunity to be part of a successful team. The people in that business unit is a great people. He explained. They just needed some management and Leadership to get to that success point the message for you is to look at your Market your customers your industry and your company. What are those jobs roles are projects are products that no one wants maybe they are difficult. Maybe they're not fun boring mundane or full of conflict maybe several people have taken on those unwanted areas and failed maybe taking on these roles will be embarrassing or at a minimum make people question your judgment. When you feel these doubts creeping up on you keep this concept in mind do what other wage Won't another popular version of this quote is to have what others don't you have to do? What others won't well, here are some examples that I can think of kafi din, the dairy nutrition were in the world of balancing technical lactation reactions. Most nutritious will not spend much time or effort chasing bag caffeine sales and enterprising salesperson can turn this unwanted Niche off to a goldmine of opportunity. Well, how about the retail animal feed within your product lines? There was a time when the retail animal feed was in this category as well sales were a small fraction of the business down volume Dairy Beef & Swine markets where everyone wanted to be because of the sheer volume in sales. I mean it you think about it takes a lot of rabbits to eat the same amount that a cow leads. So no one would not go down that path. I followed a series of mm. Oh, maybe eight sales people who made it about one year each at selling into this Market customers were a bit numb at keeping up with who the new sales rep was. The product line. Well, what about silage and hate treatments and Agronomy sales? These products are highly effective and customers don't necessarily shop too hard for them. Again. This is a great Niche for a self-starting sales person as with most of these niches. It doesn't take a PhD in an Oculus to be successful. You just need to spend some time routinely learning more than you're taught to be considered an expert. What about the compact utility tractors in the equipment sales world. I mean everyone wants to focus on the 200 and 300 horsepower tractors. Can you carve out a niche in the compact sylheti market or use it to get on farm for the bigger sales down the road in your search. Look at your industry. What is the most difficult aspect for your customers? Where do they struggle with regards to your product? Is it in delivery and accounting in Waiting or maybe not in not knowing I mean a great example of this can be found right in your local pizza parlor. Remember when Pizza took over birth? Our to cook at a restaurant or at least it felt that long. Well Along Came Domino's and they were able to make it cook it and deliver it in 30 minutes. They took one of the biggest distraction about pizza and solved it. The rest could have done it and since have but they didn't Domino's took one aspect delivery time. It wasn't a high-tech aspect. They didn't come up with a better sauce or better tasting crust. Obviously. They simply were available faster in agribusiness. We often want to differentiate ourselves on our technical superiority of our products or maybe in our own personal skills a sales person. That's great except keep one thought in mind if your product can't be delivered on time invoice correctly kept in inventory and perform consistently, you're no better than the low-tech product or sales person. I saw this many times in selling to retailers. They need a supplier who maintains inventory ships on time has good accounting practices meaning if they have an easy to read em. The greatest product in the world that isn't in inventory can't be sold look for those areas in your industry that are underserved because no one wants to focus on them then use your expertise to solve for them were at a minimum become an expert in them. And here's one last quote or concept to help you on your search for success in the Consulting world. There's a frequent quote. There's riches in niches. Let me tell you that again cuz it's really cool to say there's riches in niches. No one knows who said it but it's very powerful as a new salesperson. We set out in our market and we tried a head-to-head against competition. Now, we do this by emulating all the other sales people in our company, we chased the same types of customers and we act all like all the other sales people. We know the problem with this plan is that it makes you look just like all the rest of the sales people in the world. We don't stand out which in sales is not a good thing our customer then uses price juice. Operators by narrowing your Niche into a specific category a specific product or geography you differentiate yourself in this differentiation answers to of the most important functions. Every customer has when you drive onto their Farm question number one is why should I buy from you and question number two is why should I buy from your company? The answer is I have done the exact vehicle. I have done what others don't and won't do I specialize my focus for this type of customer. That's why you should buy for me. I hope today's podcast helped you on your journey to bring the best egg sales professional. You can be you can always access more blog articles podcasts and other training opportunities on my website at ww.w. Greg Martin. That's ww.w. M a r t i n e l l. I. Thank you and have a great day.
Introducing, The Leading Through Change Series
"From salesforce studios this is blazing trails back to blazing trails. I'm your host Michael Ribo both salesforce studios and your co host. More would senior manager of the salesforce blog while Laura. We've been at home for a while and we're trying to keep this podcast going with our home recording setups. I have a microphone But I think you're going directly into your computer. Is that right? I'm actually recording on my iphone from my pantry right now. Well if you get hungry you'll be all set. That's right lots of snacks. We are super excited to be back with blazing trails in a new series called leading through change. This is something that we've been doing across our organization right now in a bunch of different ways and this podcast is just one of them. Laura can you tell me a little bit about the program and how it came together? He asked so. This is a really exciting content series for us. We know that this is an unprecedented time for everyone including all of our customers everyone in our community the people that use salesforce people that follow US literally. Everyone is trying to navigate through this crazy time and we wanted to bring some tips and advice to our many people in our community. Yeah that's right Laura and what we're trying to do is help businesses and all of us figure out how to navigate in these uncharted waters and how we can help both from what we're doing and what our customers are doing to share information and share inspiration and get through these really difficult times. That's right it is all about helping our community and just to give you an example of what you'll learn if you engage with any of this content. We're going to be sharing tips on employee. Communications which is so important right. Now as many employees are wondering how to navigate a completely different workplace environment customer communications as well. We're going to be talking about solving for revenue challenges that many companies are thinking about right now especially our small businesses and of course maintain customer relationships in this work from home era. How do you service from home? How do you sell from home? How do you market from home? Those are big topics that we know. Our community is thinking about yet. It's great we're running the series across our blog and our website and we're also doing weekly live events with customers in salesforce executives and some amazing musical guests and we'll get to share their performances in these next ten episodes we've got performances from Sheryl Crowe Lionel Richie Dave Matthews. These have been such an inspiration and it's been great to bring a little joy and happiness during this time. Absolutely one thing. We talk about a lot here at salesforce is just having a mindset. That is resilient and can help you through stress. Our mental health is so important right now is thinking about taking care of our families doing good work for our jobs and we think music is a big part about so. We're really excited that we're able to bring this to our community. Is these really amazing performances. Indeed we've got some great guests as well. We have award-winning journalist. Soledad O'Brien not only a journalist but she runs a small business and talks about what she's doing to maintain her business and stay connected with her employees and she's got some really interesting insight about how people respond in these situations and the opportunities for people in her company and what she sees out there in the world and we'll also hear from amy and Ben Wright who are small business owners they own a coffee shop called billion. Boe and they're talking about how they are navigating this new environment where people can't come into their shop for coffee. And how are they maintaining their business and serving their customers remotely so our guests come from all kinds of different backgrounds but there's a common theme that exist throughout the whole program and that's that we're facing this challenge for the first time and we're facing it together that's right Michael. And you can catch those content across all of salesforce channels including our blog at salesforce dot com slash blog. You can also tune into our weekly live episodes on salesforce. Live those happen Tuesdays at ten. Am Pacific and now you can also catch all this great content on the blazing trails. Podcast our first podcast. Episode of the Series Launches Thursday April twenty third subscribed today on Apple podcasts. Or your favorite podcast blazing. Trails is a production of salesforce. A customer relationship management solution committed to helping you deliver the personalized experiences customers. Want so they'll keep coming back again and again salesforce bring companies and customers together visit salesforce dot com slash learn more.
Using your phone to make your feet more comfortable: Dr. Scholl's.
"Your destination for gadgets gear. I'm Fred friskin using your phone to make your feet more comfortable, doctor sholls has launched an app that lets you scan your feet to create three D custom inserts for your shoes. You can design them yourself to previously you'd have to visit a kiosk or something. Like this innovation marketing senior manager as long you get. Custom three d insert mill to within fourteen days all from your living room by downloading the doctor showed up and taking four pictures of your feet top inside view. We measure about two hundred points to give you a custom arts, and he'll support you will notice the difference price ninety nine dollars with a thirty day money back guarantee. You can find us at text nation dot com. I'm Fred friskin. Now, this how many companies out there have continued to innovate when it comes to building. A better radio. I'm Fred Fishburn, host of Tex nation, and I'm here to tell you about the new C sky wave SP radio from the wonderful people at see crane baba is crew really love radio, and it shows in this new compact model that is packed with features beyond great AM FM reception. Unsound you can tune into short. Wave signals from around the world listen to ham radio operators aviation and more. It's the radio you'll turn to every day. And in emergencies, it will run for nearly three days on just to double A, batteries hair. The sleep timer with the new soft speaker three and you've got the perfect radio for your nightstand. Of course, it can wake you up to click on secret texted dot com and put in the code text nation for free flashlight with your order. They love radio and you'll love secret.
Nathaniel Remez, Corps de Ballet, on The Little Mermaid
"<music> welcome to San Francisco Ballet's meet the artist podcast in this episode. You'll hear senior manager of individual giving our Lipski in conversation with quarter ballet dancer Nathaniel Remez. This episode was recorded on Sunday April Twenty eight twenty nineteen before performance of John New Myers. The Little Mermaid hope you enjoy hi everybody good afternoon. Thank you so much for coming to our final performance of the Little Mermaid welcome to our meet the artists interview. I'm Ari Lipsky A._M.. The senior manager of individual giving at San Francisco Ballet and we are here to meet artists Nathaniel remers. Please welcome him so nathaniel. Thank you for being here. Why don't you tell us a little bit about how you got your start in Valais starting valet? I was about four years old. I have an older sister so you know I was a studio rat. They said signed him up off and I've been doing ever since and that was in Washington D._C.. Yeah I was raised in Washington D._C.. And I trained at the Maryland U._C._L._A.. which is just outside of the city great and what was your training like? And how long did you train for before you move to San Francisco well. I like. I said I started when I was about four years olds. I trained at Maryland Youth Ballet basically until I well until I graduated high school I went to regular public school my entire life until senior year doing summer programs all over the country and I guess my after my Sophomore Year of high school I came to S._F._E.'s summer intensive program for the first time time and went the three subsequent years and join the school after I graduated high school great and so you were in the trainee program for two years I was in level eight for one year and then up into the training program the next so you're in the training program here before you joined as an apprentice twenty sixteen you join the core in two thousand seventeen in the trainee program. I know that you worked with John New Meyer. Who is the choreographer of the Little Mermaid which you can see today on a piece and you had a pretty special experience with him yeah tell us about so when I was a training we did a John Mayer ballet called Yawn during which is a piece that he choreographed specifically for students because it's a piece about becoming an adult coming of age and it was the twentieth anniversary of this valley so the school did it and me and four other trainees this got the opportunity to go to Hamburg where John Works and he's the director of the hundred Bali and work on the peace with them which was an incredible experience there were I think five or six other international Bali schools that sent students so it was this really great opportunity to meet other kids and do this ballet and it was interesting actually because like I said it's coming of age ballet and we did this gallant Hamburg and the next day I got on a a plane flew back to San Francisco and started as an apprentice so it was my last performances at student so it's very special pretty amazing yeah so you've come full circle a little bit now so nathaniel today's the last four minutes and you're not performing today but nathaniel has for the last week plus been performing the role of the poet which is one of the principal roles in the ballet pretty big deal for a second year court it as an aside? If you had the chance to see Nathaniel. He was totally breathtaking really amazing so Johnny Meyer came here and did he remember are you I. I wasn't sure I actually had kind of an awkward exchange with him because he was watching class for about a week deciding the casting and I kind of resolved that I should say hello to him not expecting anything just politely saying hi sure and there was a moment where I was walking into the studio and we made eye contact and I couldn't tell if he was like I recognize you or not so I took a couple steps and then turn around and walked up to him and said Hi my name's Daniel I was in Yon during twentieth anniversary of wandering and I'd really enjoyed working with you and it's nice to see you and that was it wasn't wasn't really anything else to it and so oh you found out you had landed the part of the poet. How did you find out it went up on the schedule? You know I I had no idea what's going to happen. Actually one of the other dancers teat said hey have you. Have you take a look at Monday schedule yet. What's going on? You said well. You should probably take a look and there was it's pretty was it. How did that feel helmets is one of the senior most of the company I mean working with both teat and Alrich such incredible artists and alrich? We'll see as the poet today today yeah so that was just it was so much fun because I got to pick their brains about the the part and and there's just so much experience between them and it was it was really cool. I'm really like Hampshire. That was an unbelievable. Learning experience is great. So how did you learn the role who taught you so. So primarily Katito Waldo one of our amazing Bali masters you know we just there's a lot of material because you're on stage almost the entire belly and a lot there so many tiny details so it's a lot ought to remember so the three of us katito would go into a studio when we started the beginning and we just went through and tried to get all the information that we could especially because of how season works we actually started learning this for only a couple of weeks in October <hes> so we had to learn as much as we could can it and then about two weeks ago now or three weeks ago you bring it back out and try and remember everything can't so that schedule is hard enough for any ballet normally but we actually lost almost a week of rehearsal of the fires this horrible fires that were happening up in Napa we actually in our contracts. There's air quality already clause so since we're doing physical activity for six hours a day. It's not not great to be breathing air quality. That's subpar so we lost a lot of time that last week because we we we could be in the studio learning choreography but it just isn't a good idea to be physically exerting yourself sure sure and so how did the company and you particularly make use of your limited time well since this was my first principal role I was particularly determined to to make it work so I probably pushed myself more than I should've but we were all issued face masks and and we just did our best to retain the information. I know I'm a very tactile learners so I have to do things over and over again to to really get into my body. Some people aren't like that but it was definitely a challenge for sure yeah for sure so you mentioned this. Is Your first principal role that you've learned rewinding a little bit earlier in the season your first principle character roles you also perform this season several of Don Quixote yes which is a little bit different than the poet as learn today. So how did what was that experience life for you. That was actually I found that to be quite difficult because with the poet it's very intense emotions but their emotions that you can kind of tap into and figure out whereas Don Quixote is kind of this delusional old man which is not something that I personally have a lot of experience so so that was definitely a challenge you know getting the right walked down. My body hurts because I dance all day but I don't have any. Luckily any big problem so that was that was definitely challenge but it was a ton of fun. I got to write a horse for the first time got the first time writing I think so I grew up in three thousand people yeah and it was just a really cool experience altogether. That's amazing. Who was your Sancho? Panza data was on show and you danced with day. Well actually the my favorite show was when I was a trainee and hired into the company. The three boys like hard that year were myself and Alexander Alexander Kenya and Alex Demolish. I did dunk you and dominated Sancho Panza so we were the three musketeers together really fun three talented guys so going back to the Little Mermaid the role of the poet you mentioned it's intense emotions. How did you prepare for a role because it is quite an intense part? There's a lot happening to that character specifically. So how did you approach that that I started by reading the original story of the Little Mermaid that was a very important step I think because the poets role in this particular production is the narrator curator so I wanted to make sure that I knew what the story was and then I went and did a lot of research on Hans Christian Andersen himself. He's a very very very strange person. <hes> very socially inept very awkward but they're all these parallels between his life and his work the Little Mermaid specifically <hes> was written when a man that he was in love with got married and instead of going to go wedding he went to this basically an island and wrote the Little Mermaid which is essentially based off of what what he was feeling that time it's kind of known as his most autobiographical absolutely absolutely so I it was really important to me to understand that emotion that propels the story story and at the beginning. I don't know how many people have seen already the the first scene is kind of the prologue is the reality and you see your at the wedding and the prince who the prince was based off of a guy named Edward I think and they leave in and he cries a single tear in caches it and then let's it fall into the ocean and that's kind of when the story begins and John told us that the Tier Turns into the Mermaid as it goes into the ocean and that's where the story kind of begins so there's that transition from aw Hans Cranston Anderson's reality into the story of the Little Mermaid. I think that's a really cool can i. It's really quite beautiful Jesse that as well when you were learning the part where there any words of. Advice that John Debut into getting into character not necessarily getting into character but something that was really important to him was the the physical Nicole reaction of the emotion he said that you know pretty much. Anyone can make faces but especially when you're on a stage in front of three thousand people the people at the back of the top balcony are necessarily going to be able to see your face perfectly so I I think one of the biggest challenges for me in this part was not only feeling the emotion but letting that emotion come out in a physical way through my body which is something that you know all dancers struggle with because that's kind of a base of performing a story ballet when you're trying to portray such deep intense emotions cheer so the role of the poet is not actually part of the story it's sort of a narrative device that John Invented Yep to it's sort of a story within a story so in reading the book and researching ONS Christian Andersen spoiler alert. They're sort of the same person. Did you find that made it easier or more challenging to get into the role because it's not necessarily there in the text yeah. I think that uh one of the devices that new Meyer uses is the poets book he has a book that carries around with him and one of the questions that I had for him was does the poet how it no. The whole story is he writing the story like what's going on here. What's kind of the timeline and he he told me which is something that I thought was very interesting and took a while to wrap my head around that when you're in the process of creating something it's in you in some sort of way and it takes time for it to come into it's physical form but but it is inside you in some dimension so it was kind of difficult for me to find the balance between controlling the story completely and and there are moments where awful things are happening that you that the poet doesn't want to happen but they have to happen anyway because that's what the story is and that's what is GonNa come out because that's what's there so it was a very interesting concept to try and wrap my head around and I hope that I portrayed that accurately on state? I'm sorry you're not gonna get to see Nathaniel. You really did a beautiful job so you performed part the poet as part of not one to casts and so you were dancing with two different mermaids wanting Zao and Matilda yes. How did you adjust or alter your performance or or did you at all to dance with two different partners with two different interpretations of of the Mermaid right well? My primary casts was with Mathilde and when when you have a ballet that almost three hours a three hour evening you they're all these little details that you work out between people so you might say okay you you count that part and I'll worry about this part and and low we'll be covered but when you switch casts you don't necessarily know who has those responsibilities so it was just a matter of talking through it asking them about their artistic choices. What is this a happy moment moment for you? Is this a sad moment for you because it's really important for the poet and the Mermaid to have that connection because they're telling the scene story right so it was just a matter of of having that conversation and then working out a couple partnering things it took me about an hour to everything out with with my other and we were good to go out last night so that's great. That's great question that I personally been wondering all week. What's it like to dance with a stove top half well since it comes off and comes back on so much there's no sometimes we'll pin pin head visas in or have a chinstrap? Luckily the character is is not very pinned up or anything so if you knock your hat off accidentally you can just you know figure out a way to to stay in character and put it back on. That's actually one of the great things about this ballet in this part. Is You know it's very prop heavy. There's a lot going on things go wrong sometimes but since you're the narrator you can just kind of figure out a solution in fact in the in the dress rehearsal there was one moment where an umbrella got kicked halfway across the stage turned around and saw one of one of the people other people on stage at had an umbrella so I just grabbed it and put it back down and went around the rest of the belly and eight year the narrator exactly so I can. I can do whatever I want with them. As you mentioned earlier. The poet appears in just about every scene in the ballet you also did two performances yesterday so what what was that like specifically yesterday and what is your. What is your pre show in pushover? Teen Ben for this ballet. Well yesterday was absolutely exhausting first off in terms of my process of preparing. I usually try and get into makeup in all that stuff as early as possible because you need to be in the right place well. You need to be physically warm because you have to dance but you also have to be in the right place mentally because. Because you start off emotionally at such an intense point that if you are you know joking around the dressing room or whatever and you try and come on stages it's not going to be sincere so I usually try and take a second and just really relaxed and think about the arc of emotions that I'm about to go through because you when you when you get into it you you really feel. You're feeling all the emotions that here that your character is supposed to be feeling because that's how you make it as real as possible so I just try and stay really calm and and think about basically the ride that I'm about go on and you mentioned to me a little while ago that at the end of this valet all of the principals have been through such an emotional journey. How how do you feel at the end of it? It's you know there's there's a physical exhaustion but there's also an emotional exhaustion. One of my one of my favorite parts of the valley actually is at the very end you're up on the platform and the curtain comes down and you just have this big exhale with your standing next to take this and it feels so good to I mean obviously it feels good to do the ballot but it also feels good to have done the ballet and have it be over. Well congratulations that's over for what do you hope that audiences will take away from this ballet. That's a good question. I think it's such a powerful full story and such interesting narrative because the way I see it. There's there isn't really a villain in the story. I mean you had the C. which is bad but the mermaid goes and asks for for legs. You know that's that was her prerogative so it's it's just an interesting narrative about how you can love someone so truly in and so deeply employees in they might not feel the same way and that's that's life and the emotional journey that the mermaid goes on through that it's just it's so so breathtaking and special so so I just hope that people can enjoy it and feel that emotion with the people on stage. I think you've accomplished that all of you. I'M GONNA ask a couple more questions and they were going to open it up to the audience are twenty twenty. Any season was just announced a week ago or so <hes> anything you're specifically excited about or hoping you get to dance well. Romeo and Juliet is by four one of my favorite ballet's got the best score it's got the best story and it was actually one of the first ballet's that I was a part of when I joined the school I was a guard in the back but there's also some really great characters and that's something that I would love tackle. I mean Shakespeare. Is You know the top of of storytelling I would love to to take on any of those characters and we've actually got a second Shakespeare ballet with midsummer night's. That's true that's true. I am embarrassed to say that I have not. I know the story but I've not seen this particular version so I'm going to have to do some research and maybe I'll put my eye on apart. They're all right. We look forward to it. My last question for you is today. A is a rare day off for you. What do you like to do in your spare time? Well today is just going to be resting my spare time. I Love Baseball on the big nationals fan. I know that's not a great thing saying yeah we get days off so rarely we get one week pretty much so you have to kind of do laundry and fleeing the dishes and go grocery shopping so the second half of the season. There's not much it's time off okay well. We're going to take a couple of questions from the audience. We have a few minutes left the only thing that we ask is that your question please end with a question mark so I will repeat the Question Act for anybody who can't here and so anybody have a question for in the Faneuil yes right there so the question was have any changes been made to the ballet since the first time we did it which was in two thousand ten I think yes and now and were you involved with any of the changes if they were any well I think this is an interesting topic because I feel like there are two camps of choreographers choreographers that make a piece and they say that's the peace and that's what it's going a. b. and then the other camp is choreographers who think that the pieces always evolving. John is definitely in the second camp. There were a couple changes that were made a couple of choreographic things that he decided didn't like anymore but for for me personally there were a couple instances where he was trying to make sure that the connection between the poet and the Mermaid was really explicit as well as the fact that the poet so it was controlling the story in narrating the story so there were a lot of little details that he changed but nothing nothing too drastic. I'd say got it and by the else let's have view right back there. Did your sister continue in Valais well my my older sister dance through college and no longer dances professionally but she does work for Lincoln Center. She does Brandt grant writing and fundraising my younger sister who's actually sitting right. There is currently in the San Francisco Valley school so it's kind of the family business.
Medicare Cost Report Worksheet S-10 Explained [PODCAST]
"Welcome to the hospital finance podcast you're go to source for information and insights that can help you stay ahead of the challenges impacting healthcare finance, and now the host of the hospital finance podcast. Michael, pass not say. I might not and welcome back the wording hospital finance podcast. WORKSHEET has ten has become an increasingly important part of uncompensated care reimbursement to help us understand more about worksheet has ten. I'm joined by Jimmy Mendez who is a senior manager on our reimbursement services team at bessler Jimmy Welcome back to the show. Thank you Mike? Jimmy why don't you start out by explaining why? Worksheet S. ten on the Medicare cost report has become so important. Well Mike work ten is critical to any facility that treats a high number of dish patients. Any facility that has a patient percentage over fifteen percent is entitled to a portion of the uncompensated care pool. This uncompensated care pool is a set of now for fiscal year two thousand twenty that cms allocates to all eligible hospitals. The allocation percentage for each each hospital is directly linked to the uncompensated care. Total reports on Worksheet S. ten. Jimmy Water, some of the key data files that are needed to get started with the preparation of worksheet has ten. These include the following eight thirty five warns a thirty-seven forums age trial balance detailed. Charges General Ledger and financial statements. Insurance Master. Transaction Code Master. Hospital service mapped by patient type. Bad Policies. Charity Policy. Financial assistance policies. Patient demographics. Charge detail. which ones are the most critical Jimmy? Most critical are the transactions which is the in accounting transaction, detail, the charge detail and the patient demographics. Let's start with the patient accounting transaction detail. Essentially you want a complete download of the patient accounting system. This will allow you to identify. All of the transactions applied to patients account over the life of the patients encounter. The payment transactions should be able to reconcile back to the eight thirty five, which are administered advises and the remittance advice. Can I be the patient responsibility? Transaction Code identifying primary secondary and tertiary pairs as well as win. The hospital started building the patient and any charity care discount applied are essential as you want all components of activity beginning with a total charges and ending with the patients outstanding balance to include reductions attributable to bad debts. It is also important to identify the service states. Financial Class and the Geo Department. Number and Geel account number that each transaction hits to ensure that you can reconcile the mass to General Ledger accounts. You mentioned the charge detail elaborate on that critical file for us. Sure, the yeah, the charge detail is essentially a revenue and usage report that has exploded into transaction level by patient. It will contain data such as patient encounter number revenue codes. Charged amount. You need patient ID. Go Department and account. Service states patient type. Patient class among other items. The total should reconcile to your general. Ledger In addition utilizing the revenue codes, you should be able to identify positions and other professional charges. These reconcile to your eight thirty seven and should be excluded. From. And what information should the patient demographics contain? This will include patient name Patient Account Number Unique ID. Social Security number. Address Data Burke. Medical record number. Medicare and medicate number. Collection Agency information among various additional information. The importance of the patient demographics is the ability to identify the specific account and ensure that you have all the correct information tied together from all of your data sources. Jimmy what are some of the issues that may arise that could taint the integrity of the supporting information particularly during an audit. Well a big one is not having a well written and defined charity policy that supports the patient detailed transaction charity right house. There is a risk that a write off. That is not supported by charity. Policy will be deemed an administrative or courtesy. Right off and will need to be excluded from work. She'd asked him. Essentially S. ten should exclude courtesy allowances discounts of patients, not meeting the Hospitals Charity Care Policy. Discounts given to uninsured patients, not meeting the hospital's financial assistance, policy. Bad debt reimbursed by Medicare. And discounts given to patients for prompt payments. Other activity that needs to be addressed includes zero charge on write offs. Right up amount that exceeds patient, responsibility or charges and lack of social security number. And as you may have guessed from Jimmy's comments, tank can be a bit tricky to prepare your in a hospital, and you need assistance preparing your s ten, or if you'd like us to review the work that you've done on your ass, ten just drop a line at updated bessler DOT com. There's also some additional information on our website that you can visit just head on over to the reimbursement services web page for that Jimmy Mendez thanks so much for joining us again today on the hospital finance podcast. This concludes today's episode of the hospital. Finance podcast were show notes and additional resources to help you protect and enhance revenue at your hospital visit. bessler dot com forward slash podcast. The hospital finance podcast is a production of bessler smart about revenue to nations about results.
Personal Loan Scams Are on the Rise. Heres How to Identify One
"Personal loan scams around the rise here's how to identify one by. Casey Gov. Interest in personal loans is rising this year industry experts say unfortunately potential scams arising to amid record-breaking unemployment rates and a staggering economy consumers are seeking personal loans for two primary purposes to consolidate credit card debt or simply to get by says Brian Wall CFP and senior manager of financial planning at so-fi, a national personal finance and lending company. This is a way to help get them through until they get back to normal says. Walsh scammers have taken notice in the first four months of twenty twenty the Federal Trade Commission FTC. Reported more than eighteen thousand accounts and more than thirteen point four million dollars in losses to cove related fraud. Those complaints cover a range of financial scams, but personal loan scams have been a problem since before Cova last year, the Insurance Information Institute, a trade group recorded nearly forty four thousand reports about potential personal and business loans scams. Unscrupulous people will try to take advantage of people's needs wall says, and in the middle of a pandemic, that's putting the economy through the ringer. Those unsavory people are finding ample opportunity. If you've determined that a person alone makes sense for you. The next step is to explore red flags and warning signs of personal loan scams. Personal Loan Scams warning signs. There are basically two main reasons you could get scammed. People are either trying to steal your money or they're trying to steal and maybe sell your personal information says Jamie Young, managing editor at credible dot com, which is an online loan marketplace. Here are some warning signs to watch out for if it sounds too good to be true in most likely is while says, in fact, all the experts we spoke to echoed this sentiment they agreed if a lender has a guaranteed approval for a fast loan raving reviews. Only. On their own website doesn't care about bad credit or offers no credit check at all. It's wise to do a ton of research before you agree to do anything that might include reaching out to you. It's not uncommon for banks to send you offer letters in the mail. But if it's a bank, you've never heard of and they're randomly reaching out to you with a deal seeming a little too good to be true. You should proceed with caution says far news to Robbie next adviser contributing editor and host of so money podcast. Bad Credit no problem pre-approvals guaranteed approvals or no credit checks seemed to be common themes in personal loan scams. If the lender is making guarantees before checking financial history, be cautious guaranteed approvals or no credit checks are possible scams. A lender needs to do some sort of underwriting to assess and price that loan appropriately if they're not doing that it's a red flag to me while says. Upfront payment all the experts we talked to said be wary of advance fee scams with some personal loans you'll need to pay for an application or the origination fee, but that's going to come from the loan says walls. In other words, any fees associated with the should be covered by the loan itself. If you have to come up with out of pocket money walk away and these fees are often worded with legitimate terms like application fee or processing fee however these. Fees are anything but legitimate, and often ask you to do things that may seem odd like purchase. A prepaid card says on New Schneier Financial Health Officer at lending club legitimate personal loan lenders do charge something upfront. It's called an origination fee and that's normal but it's taken out of your loan proceeds young says on the other hand she says, advance fee loans are not legitimate. You should never be giving anyone your money out of your pocket before you get approved. Lack of company information. Another big alert potential loan scam is a lack of information about the lender legitimate financial institutions usually have an address ample contact information on their site. If your lender has no information about their company other than a url, do some extra digging before you give them any personal information. Pressure tactics. Finally, if a lender ever applies any pressure, don't bend to it. No. One's going to pressure you. If there are legitimate lender says young make sure you are in feeling pressure to make a decision today or disclose personal identifiable information like a bank account number social security number or credit or debit card information says neier reputable institutions will not force your hand or rush the personal loan application process. How to vet loan providers make sure the website is secure check. The company's website url to see if it has https, the s stands for secure. P. With no ass is not a secure site to handle personal data collection. You WanNa make sure the site is secure since you'll be giving personal information says young. Look them up a reputable financial institutions should have information about themselves online if you can't find any information on this company or this product walk away to Robbie says, she recommends doing a Google search with the institution's name and the word scam to see what comes up. Read reviews do some Internet sleuthing young says and Walsh agrees whenever you're shopping for a financial product you should read reviews and shop around as much as possible. He advises scour reviews to make sure other consumers haven't been mistreated by any lender you're considering you can check out better business bureau and Google reviews ex company young suggests. Ignore the fishy offers as our experts emphasized you may get offers sounding too good to be true ignore them don't fall into the trap of big promises of waived credit checks and guarantees for a fee. That through government tools, government resources are free and there to help consumers not get taken. Advantage of says, Walsh. You can bet your potential lender through one of these sites by typing the name of the company into the search bar. If there are charges against them, one of these sites will report on it experts recommend the federal. Trade Commissions FTC consumer financial protection bureau the CFP be the US public, Interest Research Group PR G, and the American Bankers Association the ABA. Check your states, registration resources your states finance department should maintain a registry of approve lenders with personal loans. It's about verifying the institution and making sure they're registered to Robbie explains State resources vary some states issue lenders, licenses, others, register them, look up your state system and make sure the lender you're considering checks out. For example, I searched for New York state licensed lenders and reach New York State's Department of Financial Services. Here you can search for information on licensed lenders in New York. Shop and compare rates compare rates with a few lenders to make sure you're getting the loan money you need with the lowest interest rate possible with any product you shop for you shop around don't limit yourself to this one offer to Robbie says, the bottom line not only does vetting any financial institution. You're considering protect you from personal loan scams, but it can also help you get the lowest interest rate possible watch out for landers asking for money up front or pressuring you especially if you can't find much info about their company when in doubt it pays to go with a lender you know you can trust.
CTA says U.S. consumer tech sales will top $400 billion this year
"Explanation your destination for gadgets ungeared. I'm Fred Friskin. More and more of US are buying smart home technology whether it's smart speakers or home and safety monitoring equipment and that will help to push U._S.. Consumer technology she sales this year asked the four hundred billion dollar mark. That's according to the Consumer Technology Association or C._T._A.. Where Rick Kowalski Senior Manager of Industry Analysis he says consumer enthusiasm for Smart Speakers has has not been dampened by reports about devices listening in and saving audio now I don't think so I think people understand that <hes> a lot of the analysis of the company's doing for digital assistants or that help improve the natural language processing skills and tell it become a little more natural what it does for more on the latest sales projections checkout C._T._a.? Dot Tech you can find us at text donation dot com. I'm Fred Friskin. Now this this innovation hi I'm red fish and I've been covering consumer technology for a long time and it takes a lot to impress me. That's why I'm excited to tell you about the latest way to enjoy cooking the great outdoors for my friend Patrick Sherwin and his great team at goes on stole. What have you could harness the sun to cook your meals anywhere you go day or night? The goes on fusion arrives this summer using the companies tried and true.
Samsung's Galaxy S20 line open for pre-orders
"Your destination for gadgets ungeared. I'm Fred fishkill. Reorders have begun for the lineup of Samsung Galaxy. S twenty phones with five G. and amazing camera capabilities. They also will set you back more with prices starting at about one thousand dollars on climbing to fourteen hundred with a Galaxy. S. Ultra senior manager for Product Management Caleb Slaven for all the s twenty devices. We've introduced an entirely new camera architecture. Because you've got more power in these cameras. You've got bigger sensors that you can get more light and more clarity and your photos And also great news zoom capability as well including impressive ten times. Optical Zoom on the Galaxy S. Ten Ultra Samsung's new galaxy flip with bendable. Glass is also now on the market again. Commanding a premium price tag. You can find us. At TEXTILE NATION DOT COM. I'm Fred Friskin cooking with the power of the song. Hi I'm Fred Fish. Skin here to tell you about the latest innovation for my friend Patrick. Sherwin and his great team at goes on stove the goes on fusion has arrived using the companies tried and true reflectors and solar vacuum tube could get cooking without a massive charcoal heavy propane tanks or smoke a really bright idea and with an optional solar panel and battery storage on the ability to plug in at home or on the road you really can use the goes on fusion to cook anytime and anywhere day or night nor shy. I love what Patrick and his team are doing. And so will you want to learn more head to go some dot. Co Two check out. All of the company's product sent innovations and use the code text the nation to save ten percent. That's goes on DOT Co.
How Cinnabon Built Their Sweet Social Media Program
"Ability to storytelling connect one on one with your guests that no matter how small of a following no matter how few of a small community that impact can be so huge for your brain you can start it to make waves that resonate out outside of community. You're creating advocates as opposed to just fans likes in our great comments are great but true advocacy. That's what you want to harness around that community and showing that you care that you are involved aalto. You're not just speaking at them. You can't overlook that Will Adam. That was the the answer to the last question we ask the guests so as you pointed out we're eating our desert. I on this episode of the Social Pros podcast boy what a great one Melissa is super smart and doing some great things. They're cinnabon really too and it's very apropos. We're going to eat dessert I with our show with with cinnabon. It is and sit up on his come on this ubiquitous could is brands that that you think about you smell it before you see it and her thoughts and opinions on user generated content how they're tracking efficacy of their social media but p paid and organic as well as working in a world of franchisers and in a world where there's multiple brands kind of inside of their parent company really interesting stuff this week yeah good wine yeah you mentioned the franchise angle that's really interesting and also as she pointed out a couple times in this episode cinemas what is typically not exclusively but often found in malls right so that's a whole `nother dynamic right. You're going right to cinnabon. You're going to a mall that said about is located and that's a whole other wrinkle so we covered a lot of ground in this episode. It's really interesting especially for those of you on consumer products. You'RE GONNA I love this one. It is Barry sharply. WHO's the senior manager for social media at Cinnabon this week on social pros <hes> before we hear the rest of the story from Orissa quick acknowledgement of our great sponsors here on the podcast Adams Organization salesforce marketing cloud longtime <hes> proponent of the show they have a terrific e book out called <hes> the State of marketing report where they interviewed forty one hundred marketers from all around the world which is a heck of data set and it's the fifth edition of the report actually and asked him about all the trends and things that matter you can find in this report the impact of customer experience on marketing super important? We talked about that with Marissa here in a moment how the role of social media is changing also something that Marissa touches on and how critical a I is in two thousand nineteen. We've got a lot of A._I.. Conversations he's here on the show in the last few weeks download. The report won't cost you go to bitterly slash. J. Says that's bitterly. Slash J. A. Y.. S. A. Y.. S. All lower case is the state of marketing report from Salesforce Marketing Club also this week this very program is brought to you by our Powell's at Emma fantastic email marketing platform that helps you connect with your audience and grow lasting relationships mercer talks a lot about lasting relationships this week they offer really intuitive tools to build on your emails and automation sequences powerful segmentation and reporting as well also. They've got an award winning support in professional services team so look you know the trend in software. These days is to kind of D._I._Y.. And let robots do it but Emma's a big believer in having real human beings on the phone who can walk you through stuff and I do appreciate appreciate that for sure you can learn more and requested demo at myemma dot com slash. Jay is awesome. Which is the Promo Code that I did not I did not create but it is what it is? My Emma Dot com slash. I should Jay is awesome. Check it out won't you. They'll appreciate it so well Adam and myself. Let's get right into nitric clancy something about the sugar. We've been talking. Several months about the Jay is awesome. Yes you're I haven't seen you go out of your way Teijin. It's not that I couldn't change it. It's just that there's a whole team at convinced the convergent manches these things that I don't want to disrupt the workflow but now that you purpose it. I'll have to change it to Jimmy is adequate will be Mexican next week on Joe. Let's hear all about Cinnamon Rolls Ladies and gentlemen by the official mineral of the Social Pros Bob guests like it here we go Marissa surplus queen of all things cinnamon roll welcomes these social pros podcast. Thanks for having me guys so you are a former reality TV star and and from there for two two leading social and public relations for the world's best known Cinnamon Bun brand cinnabar must be quite a journey so please take us on a walk on your time and explain to us how this happen use the term star very lightly the immediate glow-in-the-dark Zaza on your ceiling child. Maybe you were a prominent part of the bachelor on that television show and unfortunately did not get all the roses. The fix was in. I think but yes you've done a lot of T._v.. In your background and now here you are in the cinema abundant yeah so I mean my my career started off in the sports production area. I have a degree in broadcast journalism. So that was kind of where I was seeing my career. Go but as life happens it took me down a path of working more in <hes> with our with the publicity team with a regional sports agency or with regional sports network at the time <hes> <hes> they were looking to embark and social media and at that point they had no idea what they were doing and so they looked to the youngest person in the room who is able to use social media and said hey you were bringing you in. You're you're helping us with S.. And at that point it was just put a page you start creating content and so I was leading that charged with the head of P._R.. The time which <hes> dovetailed me into going into P._R.. For Walt Disneyworld resort in their sports complex there and they at the same time they were also looking for someone to spearhead their social platforms as Disney was starting to their toes into social and so I was handling P._R.. And Social For Walt Disneyworld resort on the side and then the social media team stole me over and I went full blown full force as a community manager for one other platforms as a representative for Walt Disneyworld resort and that led me to moving to Atlanta where I don't more into entertainment P._R.. And and <hes> kept going down that P._R.. Road for about seven years and then landed over at focused brands which is the parent company for <hes> Cinnabon as well as many other delicious food brands and as I sent my times times year we've kind of our world here. We decided to launch a a combined role that tackled both P._R.. In social media we really wanted to try and bring those two naturally together as they are so integrated already. We wanted to see what it looked like if one person was at the forefront of that and it helped us be more integrated and kind of breakdown those walls and barriers between different departments and so with my background being experienced in both P._R.. Social I was the one that they said all right. Let's <hes> says this outlet see how how it goes and so that's how I arrived at cinnabon then with the brand for just over a year and everything is going very well very tasty. Is there a similar role all at the other focus brands which include Indiana pretzels a big airport favorite of course mows the Mexican food chain and mcallister's the Deli among others so social combo person in each of those brands and they're trying to sort of replicate that structure across across all the brands we are in a couple of the brand so Amazon's actually has a <unk> Combo P._r.. In digital lead they have a separate social media <hes> lead and then carvel ice cream. If you're familiar added also has a combined P._R.. And social role our restaurant brands so mos- mcallister's Schlotzky's all have individual P._R. and social team so we're we're giving it a go with some of our brands and seeing how it works for the our sister brand NGOs also has a combined p._r.. And social role so we're we're trying it with some of us and seeing how it goes and so far so good because all the brands are in food at some level either restaurants or or restaurants I've kiosk. Do you do center of excellence type things in and get your counterparts together from Jumba juice and mows and talk about common common issues in challenges. Yes it when I first joined focused brands it was we did have a center of excellence disappearance social sat outside of the brands and we supported multiple brands at that point so when I came in I was handling P._R.. For mcallister's Deli as well as all focused brands from eight business development standpoint and we actually when we broke out of the center of Excellence Not Swin we individually went back to the brands and that's when we started this dual role opportunity so <hes> with the dual role came going back into the brands but we still have shared services within our creative department so I have a creative who is in our content kitchen as we like to call it he is our storyteller and he is dedicated to creating all of our social content for cinnabon as well as another as those wells another brand for us so yes we started off in not shared center excellent structure and as we've kind of been playing around with how we all support in what's best for the brands were currently sitting back within the brands given that your background originally was in broadcast journalism. Do you find it helpful now. So much of what we do in social media has become either ritu visuals or even video defeat like that that background is is useful perhaps more so than you would have thought it would have been. It's incredibly helpful. It's helped me not only in the social space and with creating content but. It also with P._R.. I've been able to kind of speak the language of our creative team. I know what to expect when they're going into a shoot. I know how to help relay that to them. I know how to help really how putting story together <hes> it's now. It's just in in a shorter form so it's kind of challenging me in regards to hurry telling this in ten second fifteen second thirty seconds spot as opposed to maybe a minute and a half two minute <hes> <unk> T._V. Slot so <hes> it's yes. It's been immensely helpful to be able to really work arcane hand with our creatives as well as just figure out how it naturally think in a storytelling way so this new version of storytelling on social is kind of how I always thought so it's been it's been incredibly easy to transition into you creating that social content Emmerson I think that's one of the things that the cinnabon and some of the other brands that your team manages does so well it it is around around the story and Kombi emotional side of what you're doing. I think another piece that you do what I'm interested to hear your thoughts about it because I think it's relevant to a lot of our listeners that may also be in a franchisee franchise or type of relationship is how you deal with the individual franchise franchise owners and I think this is something that's important thing when when we first saw saw franchisees kind of get into social every single restaurant had their own twitter and facebook pages then there was a reduction and then there was some more command control. I'm curious how you manage it. Shows relationships not just with your consumers the people who enjoys Tavon every day but also you're kind of customers. Who are those franchise owners yeah it's it's definitely unique with with cinnabon specifically when we look at how we handle that franchisee social relationship <hes> at cinnabon or would me talk about storytelling? It is incredibly easy for us because we have such a passionate fan base who likes to communicate engage with us so they they give us those amazing stories they tell us exactly exactly what our brand means diamond. I know how incredibly lucky we are to have such a passionate fan base so in regards to that relationship with our community they are just so passionate and love having not one to one relationship with us that it makes it fun easy and it keeps the social in social social media <unk>. It's not just placing ads for us so that's that's one benefit that we have but when it comes to the Franchisees we actually choose to have everything managed through our national pages so <hes> for for better for were still trying to figure out exactly if you know is does have a negative impact on any local businesses if they aren't having these local local pages but we do a lot of work to make sure that all of our content is supporting them on a local level so we're doing we have digital buys. We have our social by federal targeted around each of our bakeries. It takes the weight off of them having to manage a page. You'll hear from a lot of Franchisees I can do it. I can have what my my manager. She'll take pictures while they're working during the day they'll post them. We can run the pages it's totally fine but when you look at the amount of engagement that comes through on a Brand Blake Sin Yvonne. It's not just people telling you that they love you and they wish they had a cinnamon roll. You're getting AH guest relations issues as well so you're having to deal with that customer care and I don't think <hes> a lot of franchisees understand how much comes through social nowadays it is. It is a big chunk of what we do. When it comes down to community engagement we have to always think of the guest relations peace and so it it takes a lot of conversations franchisees to help them understand what it means to create content what it means to manage those pages manage that content and try and funnel them to specifically just dealing with any of the standard location pages where general reviews might be left on so the yelps of the world <hes> focus in on owning those pages in handling those comments air we will handle the social content creation and manage from a national level making sure that the people around your bakery no you're there no the amazing treats they can get and drive traffic to your stores? It seems to be a philosophy. That's working for you. Empower the franchise owners the restaurant managers to do what they do best which is great center bonds in higher amazing easing people to do that and let the marketing communications and storytelling professionals kind of do the same you did Mitch an interesting part that straddles fence and that is the social customer care the Gra guest relations and and when you deal with with guests your either either complementing the brand or have an issue talk a little bit about how that process comes through. I've had a an let's just say an unfortunate experience at Cinnabon I tweet it. How does that get routed and resolved inside of organization and then get actually to that person at at the store level because as you said me we do want to empower our franchisees to run their business and so while we facilitate and get that information back to the Franchisees it's still L. in their hands to make sure that they are recovering that guests and providing that level of service that they're known for so that we have guests continues to come into their doors so we if someone tweets on social they had about role about experience whatever it may be we have our our team? We have an agency that we use comedian agency that will filter that request we then if you were to go into cinnabon dot com and fill out the contact us form and leave a complaint we go through that same system on the back end to process process that guests recovery issue in need not get sent directly to the Franchisee their store level team and they're getting flagged on that every single day that hasn't been responded to and so we're able to monitor make sure that these <hes> guest relations issues are handled in taking care of so again. We're putting that the onus of owning their business back on the Franchisees it's it's their business to run in own. Make sure that the their guests are truly taking care of them but we're ensuring that they're getting an are aware era any potential issues that might have happened during someone's <hes> visit to the bakery Mercer Surplus Senior Manager Public Relations and social media for Cinnabon is our guest this week on the show Marissa. Let's look at it from the opposite perspective from the customer acquisition acquisition standpoint. How does your organization look at social is it? A foot traffic driver is it a <hes> frequency booster is advocacy creator would sort of the role all of social in terms of making money at the at the individual store level all of the above everything every tactic that we have obviously have a different goal but with cinnabon knowing that we have such a strong and passionate passionate fan base and we are also very fortunate to be more than just cinnamon roll brand. We have this magic where we're woven into pop culture in lifestyle people who may not have ever visited cinnabon and had a cinnamon roll follow us love US engage with us so we're tapping totally different segments in different groups and we always want to make sure we're talking to them so we will have content that is just brand building and just letting making sure people who have never experienced still all know who we are as we also have our traffic driving content so it's talking about our new L._T._O.'s it's <hes> flagging inexperience and upcoming promotion. That's happening in our bakery. <hes> obviously the big conversation that happens out in the world. Is You know what's happening with small businesses so we know we already have a very large barrier venture. When it comes to being in a mall not many people may be going into the mall anymore and so we don't necessarily think that we're going to have stop someone in mid scroll of their her instagram feed get them to stop what they're doing drive to a mall find where they're gonNa Park in order to easiest access our cinema so they can get in grabbed their cinnabon and get out? We know that that's a big hurdle. That doesn't mean we're not trying to still talk to them and let let them know that when you are at Amal when you're near Mall we want to be your first choice. Treat Renault. Were not necessarily GONNA be what you're stopping what you're doing but when you are there in when you are thinking of something we want you to think of us so yes traffic driving <hes> just standard brand building brand love leading making sure our guest and fans know who what we stand for <hes> social is the only place that we make any paid spend any advertising. It's only done in the social in digital space so for us it there is very much a business component that it is having to tie back to store visits to that traffic to sales in so as we start to build more of our social presence we really only started heavily getting into paid social <hes> maybe about two years ago and so it's still very much a test and learn component to us. Where do we drop the dollars whereas going to build the business as well as a build that brand love so definitely still playing around with everything but I feel like we're we're definitely making some good headway in ensuring that we're growing our fan base in business? I think everybody who's ever had a cinnabon or been in the vicinity of cinnabon knows that it is went from down win but it's a very visual product right is Jose. <hes> is a cacophony of of icing and and consequently a lot of what you do in social is is photo driven right it is it is cinnamon bun pornography in all intents and purposes how often is is that user-generated or how much U._G._C. SORTA tap into and <hes> in a new allies that occurs naturally people just snap a photo of their cinnabar because they can't believe how big beautiful in shiny and delicious it looks the same way that people take photos of their starbucks cups etcetera. How how much are you egging that on or making U._G._C.'s part and parcel of your routine storytelling as much as we can use it we we do we are as as much as you would think that U._G._C. is everywhere for us us? We have some pretty high standards of what we want to showcase to fans or people who've never visited us just stumble across a feed that just blows up and you're seeing it in your discovery tab on your instagram. <music> cinnamon cinnamon roll can go from absolutely delicious credible. Oh my God I want that to what is that on that play so we have pretty high standards as to what roles and what the product looks like that we share out we also oh go through these lovely things called brand positioning where you want new logo and so we also are limited to what logos we want to keep out there in the world so we try to any any bakery that hasn't necessarily transitioned over there sign edge or some of the old packaging goes on there. We just US tonight utilizing showcase that material so <hes> I will say on the flip side. We are very fortunate in that. We are in international business so we get some amazing photos from some of our international fans that feature products that we don't have domestically that allow us to tell that global mobile story and really showcase our the cinnabon around the world so we do have some amazing juicy that comes through but we do have some pretty high standards as to what we feature Mussa sharply senior manager Social Media N._p._R.. For cinnabon I would be derelict in my duty if I didn't bring up speaking of U._G._C. and product positioning and I know this came before your time but breaking bad yes and it's association with with with your brand curious again. This is probably going to be hearsay but was this an opportunity for your brand. Was it something that your brand kind of stood away from both in traditional additional as well as social media and do you still see any kind of repercussions as that show continues to kind of live over and over and over and both syndication and things like netflixing Hewlett any better call Saul is an active and amazing partnership for us that we are actively involved in. We you know we made the choice when the mentioned was made to respond via social and to just very subtly sends a tweet that linked a to a <hes> an application for our jobs with cinema cinnabon so <hes> it was definitely kind of like a quick Powell like do we want to do this. What what are the pros cons? How how are Fan Base GonNa React so oh we it was definitely something thought through <hes> that was before my time but it was knowing the again the magic that we have in being lucky to be involved in pop culture? It was also something that just felt so right for our brand brand respond to be involved with so it has been amazing for us in its again one that just lightning in a bottle that were so lucky to stumble upon so it's it's been it's been great. I mean the fans love it. Everyone looks forward to cinema cinema. GonNa be in this and we take advantage of that as well. We usually do a promotional offering our bakeries when every season launches so it's it's been great for us. It was definitely again. You pause you. Stop You make sure make sure bits of the brand and it made sense for us. Yeah sorry about that I got I got better. Call breaking bad mixed up. There was all the time I'm sure if you haven't seen better call Saul and the routine sort of references truck is all works in a suit abundant from time to time in this show. You got to check that out is truly amazing. Mercer you mentioned twitter and how you sort of send a tweet when you're I referenced in this show and that kind of spurned a more formalized relationship. I also noticed that you're doing these new relatively new hashtag sweet talk twitter chats sort of this idea of life needs frosty talk a little bit about that about that strategy and how it plays out yeah so I mean we've definitely been been doing them for a little while and it's it's our weekly way to create eight community and to be a part of them in a way that has nothing to do with with our product and with our our bakeries we use social listening and we use a lot of the platforms analytics platforms to see what what what does our audience care about what topics wet areas of life what what what are they. What do they care about? What do they want to hear and we craft a weekly when our twitter chat that gets our fans involved to talking about the things that they I love <hes> we will subtly we've in a product mention if for example today we were talking about summer getaways and so while the entire conversation has nothing to do with our product we sent out one tweet within one broadcast tweet in the middle of that that talks about if you're on a summer road trip we just launched a brand new cookie frosting sandwich <hes> with pilot flying j which is a you know a travel entertainment spot the people stop at on the road trip so very natural it fits in with the conversations <hes> but yeah it's just it's the chance to connect with our fans at their audience and have them tell us a little bit more about their life and it gives us insight into what they want what they like in potentially even gives us just more insights on how we craft are brand moving forward so gives us a chance to just show that this isn't just about selling you a product getting into our bakery? We really do care about our community because they play such a huge role in in the relevance doctor that we have curious I love I love the idea of what you're doing with with those those events have you found in this just gut check that by participating those events getting that engagement very high between branch and your and your guests during those one hour segments is that doing anything to impact the algorithm of the efficacy see of your post both paid as well as unpaid during the other points of the week. Yeah I mean we we will have definitely seen that in certain twitter chats. Were we hit a topic that is like it is buzzing with the community we don't. I'm not going in but we see it. Pop it jumps us up and we hit we we slightly jump up in that engagement and we don't come down from it so we can see like we're kind of stare stepping up when we find those magical topics or there is something that in a if we ask someone what is their their summer song for Twenty nineteen and they happen to tag some major pop group and the fan base is insane in the fan base goes crazy and now they they see that we care about what they care about now. They're becoming fans of US and actually dry. It's actually driving visits to our bakery as well so it. It isn't necessarily done to solely drive. Keep keep growing our engagement rate. It's not done with that purpose but we've seen that we really hit on topics that buzz within our community we start seeing that little stair step increase within our overall engagement rates in in the successor in any key is that we're looking at a win a win win win mercer one of the things that we're seeing more and more now is is brands taking very specific point of view you talked about when you can associate with a music artists that has a lot of fans etcetera cetera where somebody to see brands gonNA take a stand if you will you certainly saw the the Nike Scenario with Colin Kaepernick <hes> in brands especially in food you see Wendy's with <hes>. They're very snarky twitter account for example <hes> and say no we don't want reach which everybody we want to reach us a portion of everybody in be disproportionately resonant for that portion in some way. Is that something that you can ever envisioned cinnabon doing saying these are people <hes> or is it just not part of the brand at this point. I mean never say never e-e-e-e-no we'd like to think that our we absolutely care about the important components in life that our guests in our fans want us to take a stand on but at the same time we also so like to have our position be more about the sweet things in life though like like we said are one of our sayings life needs frosting. It's all about what brings that positively to life in what makes life special signing those special moments finding those moments of bliss just no matter what it is. It's not necessarily about eating cinnamon roll. That's giving you that little moment at escape. It's about all of the things in life like stop like life is crazy and things are going on around in the world. Take time time to step back and enjoy this wieder things in life and so we try to to position ourselves more as recognizing what brings that happiness that bliss dot frosting to life as opposed to taking a stand against anything. That's on the negative upside if you had to pick just one social platform like okay for whatever reason we have to do one hundred percent of everything on this platform. Which one would you pick? Oh my gosh. It's so hard for us. There's there's no denying the engagement that we get on on twitter and there's no denying the connection that we have with our fans there <hes> but at the same time like we are just so such a visual product like you see that at cinnamon roll it instantly triggers. Oh my Gosh I want that and we've done a great job of at least being able to if you don't have a bakery nearby as we have our our channels in licensing partners that have a taste of cinnabon. You might not get that cinnamon role but you can go and get that cured k-cup that cinnamon cinnamon flavor so gosh I honestly it's so hard to say i. I don't think I can pick say twitter or or instagram. Would that be definitely instagram's our top two. I was Gonna ask you the exact same question that Jay ask which is great while I'm GonNa ask it slightly differently and I I agree. I think thank you even told us in the pre. Show that twitter for you is all about your engagement with your customer. INSTAGRAM is all about the crave and I think you articulated perfectly <hes>. When you talk about the visual my question for you is is? Is this a little bit about timing. The maturity of these social platforms if we were sitting here recording this in July of twenty twenty you think that you would feel a little bit differently. I mean as instagram perhaps becomes more of an engagement channel and other things happen. Are you going to start to lead that way or is this. This is pretty firm in terms of the twitter in the INSTAGRAM and how you're leveraging both lifelines yeah I think they're all they are going to continue to have their place. I don't I don't see them necessarily going anywhere. I think the weight might shift <hes> when I came into use social media was working on the brand side in launching pages. I would've never thought that twitter would have have gone in that direction that it has is. I would never thought that instagram would have blown up the way that it has and so I think as the platform start to evolve in has more layers within them. You know you have I._G._T.. You have stories that have just become so incredibly proper popular on instagram channel. I could easily see it start to shift and go on a different direction if we're able to find that perfect melding of the crave in engagement I mean that is like a win win for us for sure so how I welcome either platform to to make it a little bit easier for us. I worked at McDonald's in high school as a kid. That was my first job at McDonalds but I'm glad I worked. There is a great great learning lesson but after working there for a couple years I'd take a little break I had I had to put the pause on on your own McDonald's. I got a little too close to it so as as a college athlete you played softball at University of North Carolina. Go Tar heels yeah. I think you're from Phoenix. Originally it's not true yes I lived there for a long time. My wife's also from Phoenix I mean cinema and not really a locale food. I think that's safe to say and and as an athlete and as somebody who is now around cinnabon all the time like do you guys have them in the office like other cinnabon carts like it every corner. Are you dislike besieged by that cinnabon smell or like what's your relationship with the cinnabon today yes so in our building. The first floor is our our indie kitchen. So every brand has a kitchen and our chefs are in their cooking up delicious products all day every day so you walk into the building and you are pretty much instantly hit with the smell of cinnabon as little as our other lovely brands you get a little bit of some bread toasting you get the Mexican food with most so it's a distinct sent as well. That's that's our audience. Team is the only brand that's not base here. They held their roots and they're up in Lancaster but yes you constantly get the smell you will will come out to our kitchen areas on each floor and there will randomly just lia baking tray of cinnamon rolls or something else that one of the the chefs have been testing are amazing chef for Carbel will be walking around saying. Can you just piece this flavor real quick. I need to know with this works. We say we have product available to us would be understatement <hes> so you I mean you have to you have to try the product. You have to make sure that we are maintaining our standards in when I travel if I ever see a cinnamon roll on a menu I I have to do. We have to check out the competition and make sure that we are keeping up with everybody else so it's definitely something that we get to enjoy frequently j you know we can ride off things from expense standpoint homer traveling or doing business orangey. Can we off calories cinnamon rolls or is it a little lady. I taking applications now for everybody who wants to eat free food. Go ahead all know that was that was it for me. That was just one last one last question for immersive something we talked a little bit about earlier but you talked about sales attribution and how you're looking at your paid activities my last question for you is how are you showing sales attribution. Are you getting accurate data from the locations so that you can begin to show that correlation or causation farm. Okay we ran this this social campaign and then we saw an uptick in in this particular part of the country yeah so that is one part that we are definitely currently working through right now obviously being in a mall we come into some issues with being able to directly attribute it to going right to our bakery <hes> when you get into <hes> you know multiple stories of building. It's very hard to make sure that that traffic traffic went straight into our bakery after seeing a digital banner ad with an APP that they're frequently using so we are doing the best we can hoping that you know with new platforms in as everything evolves that it becomes more precise so we're getting our data from that <hes> at the end of last year we also ventured into having an official catering platform and so through online ordering were able to track are catering orders through those social ads and then <hes> other other than that. It's it's really just more of a awareness or it's a couple layers higher in the funnel that were hopefully getting a better sense of whether or not people are taking action on on purchasing a product after they see <music> our our social ads mercer activities that you're doing catering company of this kind of coop dollars. Are you going in there along with that about APP or that catering company together or is this something that you're doing kind of exclusively with with with your budgets yep so we were making the purchase on a national targeted to Oliver Bakeries that are participating within our catering program and then our our main army presence is with easy cater which <hes> they will occasionally go in on us with sponsoring <hes> <hes> you know dollars off of promotions or offering other ways to boost our presence within the platform so there are certain times where we kind of go hand in hand much like you'll see many brands go hand-in-hand with third-party delivery partners will they'll take care of a delivery if if the brand is doing X.. Amount of free products giveaway like a lot of brands are doing so a little bit of book but the majority of our adspend is done on on national level on behalf of our system Russa shirtless manager European and social media at cinnabon. The officials mineral of the social pros podcast joins us this week on the show Marissa. We're going to ask you the two questions we've asked Oliver guests here <hes> on on many many hundreds of of weeks of doing this podcast first one is what what one tip would you give somebody who's looking to become a social pro. I would definitely say to not sounds a contrary to a lot of the way that things are working but <hes> don't focus so much on the K._p._i.'s keep user obviously necessary part of everything that we're doing socialist becoming something that is driving the business but the ability to storytelling connect one on one with your guests that no matter how small of a following no matter how few of assault the community that impact can be so huge for your brains you can start to make waves that resonate outside of that community. You're creating advocates as opposed to just fans in great comments are great but true advocacy <hes> that's what you want to harness around that community and showing that you care in that you are involved with them and that you are one of them. You are not just speaking at them. You can't overlook that I love that answer. That's one of the best we've had in a long time well done well said last question for Marissa. If you could do a video call with any living person who would it be elite wait. They have to be living. You mentioned earlier because that's what I was GonNa for me the O. G. Storyteller. That's my guy living chat with. Ah Oh my gosh living completely threw me early. I think kind of harnessing back to my my prior life in entertainment P._R.. <hes> director Evan Rene is just so incredibly amazing. I had the chance to work with her or work on behalf of her projects and her ability to tell impactful emotional all stories while also continuously driving through a message that isn't hammering over your head but it is it is it comes across in every single story that she tells is it's amazing and it's incredible I think she's truly one of the <hes> most effective directors that we have seen in recent days so I think just getting to chat with her and understanding how she pulled everything together how she is able to see a story that many people may not see how she can truly tell it in a way that it gets across to so many different groups and demographics is pretty amazing. Good choice will link it up in the show notes at Social Pros Dot Com friends reminder that every single episode is located at Social Pros Dot Com transcribes links all kinds of special stuff all of it is there also we haven't had a chance to leave us a rating a review on the places that you listen to your podcast. We would appreciate that as well Russa. Thank you very very much for taking the time congratulations on all the success at cinnabon in best of luck to all the focus brands as well. Thank you so much heading. WE'LL BE IN ATLANTA. You'll see in the lobby at knows a little bit Atlanta so do I will just be kind of wandering around sampling stuff off platters ladders and you'll know it's us here and we'll have the spread ready the car down to smelling the food lapse there remember friends life needs frosty and that's the theme for this week's episode. Thanks much to Marin.
CXR Talk Talent Ep2: Holistic Talent Management
"Welcome to the see our channel our premium podcast for talent acquisition and talent management. Listen in as the community discusses a wide range of topics just on attracting engaging and retaining the talent or glad you're here flash wait we can remove that completely for for years it's been a debate I think With regards to wear recruiting should sit of really looking at end to end process with it relates to kind of integrating recruiting within HR and talent management and really all aspects you managing director of the talent management community within czar and I am thrilled to be joined the podcast today by my good friend Chris Hoyt Chris how you doing buddy the beating and there's probably a happy hour actually in somebody made the comment that you always hear of your hr Oh look out hr is here Yada Yada ought to say that and spots without even thinking was actually I'm in recruiting or the Green Berets of hr I say that now like I- outing myself right we were talking about just that and kind of whether recruiting should sit in HR and talent management and I I painfully shared an old story of mine where I remember lead brothers yeah so today today we're GONNA be talking about really what I kind of you is holistic talent management and that's the idea ah conversation over over beverages of some sort you can imagine what those might be and it's a shocker that we it's a shocker might be having a nice discussion with some Social Xinhau recruiting fit since the broader HR and talent management landscape for years it's always been sort of an interesting debate as to throw a or a subset of that I think it's just sort of been a really interesting mix to watch as different organizations structure it differently I I don't know that there is distinctly I was was a director procuring at a company I shall not name to protect the company myself but they Australia that I feel necessarily strong enough one way or the other as long as I think that you know that structure works or the function and works for the you know the company that it's of the you know prospect through employee life cycle and I think the idea of this podcast came for us a one what are these days Chris and I were having a calibrate what you here locally and that's why I never use the term best practice I don't like the term best practice there's too many it's too subjective there's to me there's there's often been some discussion doesn't go in operations does it sit outside of HR does it sit within HR is it directly report into you know the invariables that allow that practice to be a best practice in that particular company and so the idea of of bad I still carry the shame from that conversation that bogut but I was I was young and I was naive and frankly I was dumb I didn't really have a broad enough you as to each week we bring you these are going to be small snack podcasts were both of of Chris Smile kind of weigh in on something of mine for us and probably from the mine for others hopefully them yeah I think that's a great point and that that really should be something that can be applied almost anything we talk about or anything you read about or anything analyst tells you should be doing you always have to where should recruiting shit bit has been raising for here I think that's one we're just lubrication I know that there might be a through line for some of these episodes I think I it's possible but but but let let's see we go off track with that I'm going to keep us focused but this help I think a company to see that they're not quite as far behind or they're not quite as far as ahead as they thought they were but I will tell you I've said this for years I think the best thing hard to find them and that to me is really the big kind of where where where the the the the idea that recruiting should be a standalone thing with that argument falls flat for me are the best benchmark an organization do is absolutely against itself yeah and I think that's the same for you know for structure there is some flexibility there in terms of you know where does where does met right but then you've then you've also got this big topic which I think is going to continue to rise up bubble up and just be more and more on the front of everybody mind and this is being that investment in that effort in those resources on retention and how are they actually creating environment that is sticky and hold onto this people once you million dollars to revamp their career site revamp these gateways or strategy pages or videos that are all geared towards bringing in or attracting good good lars Always excited to do quick podcast with you these are always fun yeah these are funds to these are these little quickies Christmas to get together and just have a bit of a riff on a topic that talent but then once once folks are in the organization talent acquisition SORTA hands off and so what does what does the employees get will they get the out of the box as a recruiter if you don't understand what is going to happen at higher once you brought them into the organization and you're not going to be as effective as you could be as how do they find these and unfortunately for years we've just sort of swept that under the premise of well once you hear you get to manage your own career it's on you incredibly heavily on the recruiting side which is a recruiter shirt that's great like that fires me up but I think that companies are really being a bit shortsighted whether or not matched really how I could have the most impact as recruiting leader at and I'm Chris Christie obvious you've sat in that seat before what is your view on the connector aspect for me is that is really understanding what happens to the talent after it comes in and you know the easiest highlight there is of course when when pre-boarding starts if it starts are we do an awful lot of benchmarking and I think it's it's you know with with over one hundred plus companies to be able to really see where an organization sits and how it measures up among peers and it does host organizations or where on boarding who owns the on boarding where that gets picked up and then I think that just just moves so nicely into obviously talent develop and fight that war I would I would sign up draft me in that war I'm I'm game but I think we we get so hooked on that idea and so companies are investing nicely with with talent management I think that's it's a really important point because you think of the amount of time and effort you invest in bringing people into the organization headed out of the box approaches like here we have an internal career site for you like yeah that's that's our that's our answer and like cool so when I apply you're GonNa have a little house Talent Mobility and for years we have been talking about candidate experience for external candidates and we've been talking about how we spend it some organization spending over you know if you're not again most companies are and you're not matching that with crime trying to create proactively create internal opportunities for Growth and development people are GonNa leave and the challenges especially when you mentioned quite her quite horrible solution that usually comes from an ats in terms of trying to figure out what jobs are available and what jobs might be a match for and how and out to you in terms of companies that are finding ways to really have put that as a as a focal point of their talent strategy yeah in fact in just the last one the last two meetings that we've done we did executive recruiting where we had about thirty nine companies that were present at that particular meeting and then we did sourcing where we had forty eight companies that were present you did tweak that for an evolve your own variables I think for me like when I think about how recruiting system to it at one of the things that worries me about the landscape today is I think feeding those things as absolutes is the wrong way to go the term I you know the term I enjoy a competitive practice and I I really do think and see to meetings to hear of at least three or four companies that have now already created internal recruiting teams and that are working and socializing with stakeholders within we have historically made it so much easier for people to find promotions find jobs outside of the organization and done just such a disservice us you know culturally as well as monetarily right from a budget standpoint of of leading those people leave and having to start all over and so it was really really interesting the last says right so we're just kind of saying hey this is something that is worked in this one situation does means can work for you maybe it will maybe it won't a verbatim copy probably won't but you need icon next to my name and I'm not GonNa get any different treatment than the next candidate I think the risk is once you've put somebody in a position where a proactive really at like one things I'm excited about this year is to start define more examples of companies that are doing a credible job of recruiting their talent reported I I still I vividly remember getting into a heated arguments when I was running an in house recruiting teams with hiring managers that were very and in both of those the topic of recruiting and sourcing talent internally was a discussion now year ago that you know everybody's sort of Sort of blew that those organizations to say you know you really do want your talent to get a call from a recruiter that's our own versus a call from a recruiter that is outside that's cruder and so that to me is just the biggest shortcoming with the notion that that recruiting should be completely separate yeah you know I'll tell you talent because it's not really the directors talent it's the company's talent but I think in the last year we've really seen some of those organizations grab hold of that idea of recruiting internally and realize to figure out where you want to go next and I just feel that such a huge miss and we're gonNA see more organizations taking that internal candidate experience at talent mobility very very seriously I said I think that's the HR end and TA began or does T. a. n. t. m. began yup yeah and I think another term that that we used a lot with hr open source was proven practice. They've taken the step to see okay what my my life be like after this gene you can't put back in the bottle and I think that that's that's a real challenge when you're not really what you've put one of your employees in a position that they have entertained the idea of leaving if they've they've they've responded to that recruiter in mill kind of an and I get where this comes from but they were very territorial around their talent it didn't want anybody talking to their people they didn't want to off as well our culture doesn't allow for that or oh it'll be such a culture shift for us to try to recruit internally our directors aren't ready to give up their talent amusing amusing air quotes here for given up live I was like weakened radical it it can happen to buy lifetime but about so sure I think the war is the war is on the phrase the war for talent I I remember and I still do to some level I don't know about the time line but but I used to subscribe to this look at it really is the first year in the role if it really is getting to understand the job and the second year in the role is really you know really becoming a master of that craft remastering that role and then that third years the year the I think things move much more quickly and I also think you know we're making a lot more hires I think of folks who who've just got learning agility across the board that makes makes a big difference in like they're not gonNA especially now it's like three years people aren't going to sit in the same job for three years and yeah SARS I say look you know skills at the end of that two years you have a conversation with your boss is is this still the right place for you do you. WanNa go somewhere else in the company do you want to go somewhere else outside of the company and they're very job and you know maybe after two years you're GonNa WanNa do this again or do more of this version of this maybe you're GonNa WanNa go somewhere else we have a track record of being able to put people in that I was the then putting on my people when I was T- later but I think to your point three years as an awfully long time to expect somebody to hang around anymore and we've got a phone you just put your fingerprints all over it right you're you making big changes shifting things around and you really making it your own I don't think that that's the timeline anymore open about that level of conversation to me that's really practical when you think about it I mean a two two year investment you know that is you know especially in the valley the averaged different roles within the company once they've been here we know what they can reduce for us and maybe you'll go elsewhere that might be the right answer to but I think that it's hopes to speed some of that up but that that might also be a my own evolution and learning that you know three years might have just been dumb and that might have just been something that you know I grew up with the different tone for the relationship with the employees that is much more candidates up front and frankly I think sets both parties up for better success duty idea where if you get you get hired into role and the ideas that I might be pushing this a little bit so often get the the the actual facts later update but my understanding of it and your employers I think that that that's a real timeframe and then when you're able to have that conversation up front right at the moment you're hired hey here's your deal this is a two year it is you know you're basically hired into the role on it's kind of a two year agreement and the idea is like you're here for two years here's what you're GonNa do here's what we expect from you here's what we're going to provide in terms of growth and development yeah I think if you're if you're one of those organizations that still dealing with phrases like time and title and time in Grade it's probably time to reevaluate that yeah and do it for you when you when you think of of I know you've got incredible portfolio company is in our network what does anything yeah and I mean you know you China have a really great session coming up I think in December where you guys are GonNa talk about the workforce requirements and how they're changing as a result of but are these These project teams right these these larger project teams and grouping these guys together in squads if you will to do some really neat work that's just outside everyone welcome to the podcast. I am Lars Schmidt and I am the after you know they they wanted to try to put artificial timelines around the cable after being the role for three years before he gets like like look I think particularly when you look across the there's so many companies that are really taking different approaches towards how they solved this problem and so that's GonNa really help help us technology in generational shifts globalization and I just think that that's going to be a tremendous opportunity to talk about what's currently working with other companies not just you in China obviously but what's Y you're on it learn more about our our website see X. are dot works facebook.com and twitter dot com slash career crossroads in on Instagram Act career companies are you know we haven't given up on the Zombie notion of the war for talent ray like it's a phrase that won't die hate that frame that he did not go it's thanks. Chris this is fun we're GONNA be back with more of these and I'm excited to see what else we can come up good good stuff we'll talk to you on the next podcast thanks for listening to the C X are channel please subscribe to see on your favorite podcast resource and leave us a review identify more stories in examples that we could bring the listeners to to help them get an idea of what our other options different things might be able to do take another look and I also think and we've seen this in the last couple of years to I think it's very very powerful when we're talking about this at the senior manager up to associate director director level headed it sucks to lose good people that you work really hard to find talent and it sucks to lose child but like the company's going to lose them like it's not just you like organizations x roads we'll catch you next time gently working but that won't be working soon and what might be effective in the coming months and the years and then just really ideally to bit of brainstorming piece and try to solve that talent puzzle format of our podcast and keep this snack but I imagine this is going to be one of a probably a series where we're going deeper in this because there's so much to it and I'd of the scope of immediate responsibility I think that's just a great way to flex you know get these guys working together and really flex muscles that they wouldn't typically get to us they're either just leading wrecks or leading. Amanda I think you're right I think you're right and I think this is This is a topic that we could probably spend spend hours on but we're going to stay true to the the US on giving them development opportunities and challenges a little bit faster than that we've got to push that one of the company is that I think is really good job at this is linked in they rolled out there toward but it didn't it didn't say war thank you but you can't say a war on war for talent so that may be a new phase that we've tried both both Chris and Lars wholly endorse.
The Right Way to Handle Reviews in 2019 According to Yelp
"Let me find out. I think one in nine reviews actually got the response so you think that you're one of those eighty percent customer centric businesses that is really like absolutely absolutely killing it and like their customer love. You and you have superior customer service at you're not responding to reviews. I'm sorry to say that's just that's just not the case well adam. That's disappointing mathematically a good way to open this year with a a really sad and depressing statistic. I here we r._j. And we we do this every day. You write books about this and it's so surprising and i i'm trying to figure out i sincerely trying to figure out the this is the case is it because we as social pros and customer service pros are more in the now about responding engaging with customers that are having issues in situations now now rather than issues that had been posted about an impasse tents. I don't understand it but obviously i think the table is turning that we we are seeing more engagement. Of course the successful brands are indeed doing that yeah. I think we're getting better we we. We still have a long way to go which because very clear in this episode featuring featuring john carroll from from yelp. He's the senior manager of local business. Outreach leiderman good stats in here about yelp about local reviews about how to interact with customers immerse on reviews platform. It's really interesting episode <hes> on a topic that frankly we don't spend enough time about on here on the podcast so you're gonna love it if it's such a you're the ratings and reviews game at all you want to sit through this episode of the show. You're gonna learn a lot <hes> before we jump in. He got a lot to hear from john this week. I just a quick in argument of our sponsors of course adam and his team at salesforce marketing cloud software release the new social studio. <hes> tell the kids about it adam. There is so much coming up in the next couple of months. That's you know one of the things we've recently added is the ability to engage with with with reviews and be able to listen to reviews from other for over four hundred different platforms and sites and more more engagement coming here and the very next couple of months so it's a really exciting time and i think it reinforces this whole idea of the importance reviews in empowering the right people in your organization whether the p._r. Comms or the marketing of the social teams or your customer service teams or those frontline employees to be able to respond to the customers immerse quickly and that's what we hear from john on this podcast yep absolutely salesforce social studio great way to combine what you're doing in social with what you're doing in reviews you you know those those have been quite different organizations for a long time and <hes> salesforce bringing them together into one platform which is super useful also show this week brought to you by our pals at emma terrific email email marketing platform allowing you to send a customized smart you know automated nurture email sequences and they've got a great team of people down there in nashville tennessee one of america's great cities in my estimation you can go to my emma dot com slash. Jay is awesome. My dot com slash. Jay is awesome as i always meant geno your other. I did not select to learn more about 'em but i gotta tell you you know. Email can get a little tricky and and emma you can actually get a real life human being on the phone who will help you make your email no better and and that means a lot to me. Great features great price great people that is all right. Let's get right into this. Week's episode john carroll senior manager local business outreach reach yelp here on the social pros gassed john carroll senior manager local business. This outreach at yelp is our guest. We can show john. Thanks so much for being here. Appreciate it. Yeah thanks for having me so tell us a little bit about what your job entails. They're yelp open the kind of the challenges that you're facing these days yeah so my role at l. has really evolved over the past five years actually started on our sales team and our new york office <hes> all all that time ago and then i gotta roll on our business average team which is the internal organisation tasked with you know working with business owners directly ossets primarily face to face a lot of the person time on stage at conferences things like that and we we're we're handling the tough questions like like where helping them you know talk through reviews and and you know y yelp league has ever combination software and things like that and also coaching them in all of the free tools <hes> <hes> one of the great missions. Our team is that like we really were oriented towards <hes> an are oriented towards just like education first and kind of help mindset and help integrity and then that role roll. I realized obviously i can get in front of three thousand person i three thousand people on stage a couple times a year but a piece of content can get in front of three thousand people in a day or a month uh-huh <hes> or a year on its own so i started focusing my time and energy on really building out our content marketing hub and starting to build a content marketing engine <hes> which i think building hanta marketing especially in an organization <hes> that is techy and moves fast like it's really about and i'm getting internal stakeholders on board and showing them the value of something that is a little bit more long term payoffs than a lot of the programs that we might have running now a sort a sales versus marketing construct there and and it's amazing because you know yelp is being a technology company. You've got access assessed tons and tons of data and so some of the content marketing that you're doing already takes advantage of your access to that data you put together a fascinating report recently that talked about the the importance of of customer service and i'm throwing up the air quotes now for those of you listening to the podcast <hes> that that customer service is super important in kind of how people leave reviews in when they leave reviews and and what kind of reviews they leave. Can you talk a little bit about what you found when he dug into that data yeah so i think in a lot of ways everybody is kind of like a mini economist. I always think that people are optimizing the marginal utility right. If you think about everything that you're doing in your in your mind very subtle way or doing a cost benefit analysis assists you're trying to minimize your costs and optimize your benefits so effectively at the end of that equation you have like your maximum utility per experience and what we found on is a customer service is actually one of the biggest factors in driving not so we we china couple of really interesting things so i totally initially to the study about how bad the impact on customer customer service on a reviews mccown a mentioned a review mentioned good customer service. What's five times more likely to be five star verses. One star dr <hes> we refresh that data and we found that it's actually now fifteen times more likely that a review mentioning good a great customer services five star versus on star. You're so that is kind of like the top line number that we focused on and then we really started kind of diving in from there and we compared it to. I think for a lot of restaurants you know are there are there are always concerned about the product and i think most businesses focus on the product but we found that break customer service is actually more important than great taste so for every one review that mentions gray taste therefore that talked about a great price thirteen that mentioned great customer service and then i think the the last really interesting part of that day the study is that speed of service is also incredibly incredibly important that there's not a category of business so we actually do the analysis across every single category and on our blog. We have an interactive tooling feature that you can get your category of business specifically. There's not a category on yelp that has not positively impacted <hes> by faster stor customer service that we found every single in every single category of review mentions fast customer service that reviews tended to steal more positive more negative. I think it's fascinating this idea that when people mention customer service in review it's thirteen times more likely claimed to be a five star review them when they mention great taste even in a restaurant scenario to to me. My interpretation of that is people expect great taste the restaurant so when that is delivered. That's not necessarily a five star review because you're giving the customer what they bargained for. However consumer's ars expectations around customer service is so low right we we don't expect much because we don't usually get much that when we actually do encounter a disproportionately is proportionately good customer service. It's it's so shocking that it induces that consumer to actually spend the time to to create post to review d._c. It that way as well yeah like i think i think the marketing buzzer that we might be dancing around his delight. That's that's a big word that people love to love around but you know you expect. If you're looking at a business i always think about y'all blake and he's hyper review site when i'm going on and i'm doing my research. I'm i'm setting my expectation. Okay then my mama's creating this like bar of brand promise in my mind and how business measures up to or fall short at the bar is really going to be how like what plays out in a reviews news. It's almost like this cognitive dissonance moment <hes> so for me. I always think about like if they're if they're exceeding that bar then that means that that equation is like off the charts unusually that the thing that's going to most likely impact that customer service for me so yeah i do. I do tend to agree with that is like it. If you have a really shockingly experience you're more likely to go online and share it and we see that in our reviews i mean over eighty percent of reviews on yelp about which is what we consider positive so. It's you know the majority of the reviews views on the site are are those delight looks variances in there are more five star reviews on yelp and there are one two and three star reviews combined. Wow that's that's an interesting in statistics. I don't think i would have expected that. I think oftentimes both focus will focus on the on the trolls john you mentioned something i think the fascinating and and and i agree with john jay's impression of the expectations for example at a restaurant that the food's going to be good. It's all about <hes> about customer service. You mentioned the importance of speed of service and i kind of want to take that to the next level and talk about speed of response or the speed of engagement with a customer whether they're having a great five star review on your platform or a one or a two star review. How important is it for a brand to respond in the platform platform to those and do you see any correlation with future customer service or future score when brands are more responsive and more quickly responsive responsive yeah so i think one of the one of the really interesting stats we kind of green from that study as well is that eighty percent of the reviews that mentioned spoke to a manager actually actually result in a one star of new still <hes> which is pretty shocking to me because that's one of those things that it's like this isn't. I think there was an article that came out a few months ago or the six months ago. That was like please like people just like talk to the manager. Have the conversations like like don't just go online and it turns out that those people aren't just going online. They're actually taking that that step. I am talking to the manager and there's a failure in customer service right traditional customer service is not succeeding <hes> which is a huge opportunity entity for businesses to figure out like you know. How can we possibly better serve customers in j. thinking hitters you. You mentioned this one staff that maybe you can help me out with letter. It was like eighty percent of people think that they have great customer service but when you survey they're serving their customers going like nine or seventeen percent sixty percent yeah yeah addicts from bain yeah. The eighty eighty percent of businesses say that they deliver superior customer service and eight percent of customers agree which <hes> disorder shows the fundamental disconnect between how companies think they're doing customer service and how customers think they're doing customer service and the thing about the managers. It doesn't surprise me because my observation. I don't have on this anecdotal. Is that if you experience poor customer service from frontline team member typically. It's partially actually because the manager sucks too right so so if you're like hey let me go see the manager. It's not it's not very often that that you know you've got some poor frontline people but then a great manager manager right sort of fish rots from the head so that doesn't really surprise me that all of a sudden you talk to the manager and the manager is throwing gas on the fire not not water yeah and there's there's <hes> there's this great business in indio california called t k b <hes> bakery and they have been on our top one hundred list for the past three or four years. I think two years ago they were the number one business <hes> in the country and i sat down with <hes> daughter. It's a it's a holy family. Operated business and molina was just like you can names melina. Melina was like i will ask people who are making sandwiches on the line is out of sandwich and if they can instantly answer yes we throw it out and we make it a gun and that is the kind of managerial attitude you know that takes when they get a negative review they round up as a team and they unpack it going back to your point atom like they're responding to those reviews or having those conversations in there doing timely way because businesses are so we tend to silo you know online feedback or online review versus in person conversation compensation grosses face bay verses <hes> an email versus a phone call and from a customer service strategy we must create unique strategies for each of this channels in and create the silos when for consumers is actually becoming an increasingly blurry world right like like some people are more comfortable going online or some people are more comfortable israel sending an email or or you know the versus having the manager come over because maybe one time they had a manager of maroon and the manager you know bark at them and they didn't have a great experience so you know maybe they have their their tend to choose a more like slightly passive channel <hes> either way from the consumer perspective. It's identical so businesses shouldn't really have you. You know an overly like different strategy for each of those channels like been global customer. Service should be the same if you respond promptly in person you showed respond. Promptly the online and that's one of the things that we really are trying to encourage business owners to do is participate in the conversation. <hes> we find that i think one in nine reviews actually got the response so if you're one of those eighty percent customer centric businesses that is really like absolutely kellyn it and like their customers love you and you have superior customer service at you're not responding to reviews. I'm sorry to say that's just not. That's just not the case. One out of nine reviews responded to. That's not good enough enough because if you said hey here's what we're going to do here's the new plan guys. Everybody gather on staff meeting. <hes> we're going to answer eleven percent of the phone calls. You guys cool with that right you couldn't you couldn't survive as business like that you couldn't you couldn't you couldn't respond to eleven percent of emails but because it's review man you know we'll get to some of them and some of them we won't on whatever right and and you have to. You can't think of it like that right. The customer has chosen that mechanism because they believe that is the the ideal circumstances or whatever it is. They're trying to express right. Nobody nobody spins a roulette wheel and says to help you know there's going there for a reason right and so we always say is that you you know you have to address the customer in the channels that they prefer not the channels that the business prefers an end. I cannot believe it's so disheartening. It's still only one in nine but i guess i i guess i shouldn't be surprised but <hes> but but it is kind of a bummer yeah absolutely and you know what we what i find his even anecdotally onstage in and asking people in the audience like what are they responding. Jill and most people are responding to the negative reviews <hes> which is shocking into me because i've actually these people going on there saying i love this place so whispering in the ear of a future potential customer saying this place is a nominal like you should we go there and they are single handedly shrinking your advertising budget does a little bit right like this is. This is digital word of mouth like which nowadays like remove the digital digital. It's just word of mouth. There is no difference between <hes> somebody saying this had brunch table versus somebody saying it online <hes> to the average consumer and eighty nine think bright local did a study and they've got an eighty nine percent of consumers are reading the responsive business underwrite so like i ll tell people respond publicly so on yelp you can actually respond launched with a direct message or you can leave a public comment. I always say respond publicly because at least you're getting credit for it right and and you know i think a lot of folks have this orientation to deep personalizing it and and you know picking picking arthur response and and really going after the small things that they need to crack but but that's just take the high road right. That's not the way that's not the way to do it. Start with thank you. Thank them for their feedback. I've never seen a review. Even the most negative review that doesn't have some positive president component of it <hes> because nobody wants to seem like they're that person just like went in and had a completely miserable experiencing. I didn't find any silver lining so even if the food wasn't great and the and the service was slow at least the staff was friendly or something like finite bright spot like you know acknowledge it and then address the concerns and then sign off with thank you for your negative and then on the positive views again start with the dank you find the bright spot. Invite them back. You know maybe use that as an opportunity to recommend something else that they might enjoy. You're not trying to push new products on people that you're trying to chillier response and show them that you're thinking about them that you care john. There's so many directions. I i want to go in <hes> i i'm. I'm i'm so glad you're on the on the show this week. I do want to go back to something that that you mentioned. You talked a little bit about the bakery that has been on your top one hundred list for for a while. I'm going to assume that if they've been on your list for a while they're doing things right. They have the right frontline employees with the right mantra on the right attitude. They have great <hes> managers and leadership. They're doing everything right and senior manager of local business outreach you have this opportunity go out and speak to these companies the ones that are like this company that are doing well and maybe companies that are not doing so well and my question for you is. Have you seen brands. You don't have to mention any names but have you seen brands effectively listen to their customer using yelp and turn things around and what are the one or two things things that they focused on. I that you believe gave them that traction to be able to follow through and and get those scores higher yeah so other others and scrape business that i i absolutely love in denver. <hes> the business owners named stephanie and she owns <hes> a few different boutiques now she's upset three three or four and one of the things that she mentioned <hes> and she we had her on for a webinar where she talked about how responding to a reviews actually really helped her kind of changed the direction and change the way that she grew her business and one of the things that you mentioned what she talked about you know this one customer who came in and attention small boutique right so during off hours. She's stopping. Maybe one person <hes> because she the overhead of staffing more than one person is frankly too much especially in the off hours so she had this one review where somebody came in and like it just happened to be the time. There were two customers in the store one of them one of them was being held by the customer. The employees <hes> and this other person's kind of walking around and the review is like you know i didn't i was walking around and thinking expensive but i couldn't figure out if they were locally made and unruly figure out like what like like what the store is about in perspective christmas busy so they didn't pay me a lot of attention which in in her mind she was like well like i'm a small boutique like of course i can't stop people to be running around and paying their overhead nakazawa limitation of mine but she's like once i got over that kind of initial initial visceral like adrenaline rush reaction because i realized that i should be having shelf talkers throughout my story so that i am touting that these are are locally produced goods by local artisans and that's why things are expensive because like money is going pockets of local artists so that was something that she may that was a positive change and i think what like the best businesses that are doing. This in the best doesn't <unk> engaging with <unk> doing is like they're they're getting over that initial like visceral frustration reviews and they're looking beyond not and they're actually looking at the reviews like feedback right and they're using it as ways and and and tools to help umbro directionally because you can go and make you know ninety degree turns and your business like every other day inaugural figure out what's working but if you have a source that is your customers or potential customers telling you exactly what you need to do to win their business that is providing much more meaningful direction for the changes that you're going to make and it's a small incremental micro changes and those you know changes that are coming from the frontline people who are on the ground where bubbling that up to you you you know that are going to be the most meaningful in the way that you that you grow in and actually sustain john. Would you say that emotional visceral this responses senses is one of the biggest mistakes that you see business owners make where they see those reviews and they they have that immediate emotional reaction. They either say hell. I'm not going going to respond this. This person is is is a bozo or is there another kind of common mistake that you see business owners make when they when they first read reviews views and kind of go through a calculated methodology before responding or changing their their fundamental business yeah. I think that folks tend to like i. I think the pressure responses is natural right like i think everyone everyone has that you know in in any situation i want so on stage and and you know somebody gave me some feedback at the end. That was like you talk really fast and i was like whatever like me that's brand. Talk fouts people can understand me. Whatever and that's that's like that's not the right way to approach that so literally every time onstage now i think about that exact these feedback and i have to stop myself. I'm like am i am. I talking too fast oftentimes. The answer is still yes but i am a work in progress. Just like we all are right <hes> so i don't. I don't think that the visceral reaction is wrong. I think that it is human and that is okay. I think what people do that is. One of the i consider that the stakes is they ignore. Ignore the feedback and think that it's anecdotal but as we now i always like to think about that like one nine ninety principal <hes> which was first observed on wikipedia all those years ago so that for every hundred people using site ninety of them are just going to learn and consume nine of them are going to engage in edit and only one of them will create net new so onto you have that kind of transcribes tower translates to compete is ninety of those people are out of one hundred ninety of those people are reading an article nine of them might go in and add an oxford comma or at a citation tation and only one of them is going to create a new wikipedia page article so when you think about this principle that has been kind of observed across the internet you know barring the like button and some social media stuff in there but generally pretty pretty consistent <hes> we find that like if you think about that and apply that to a site like yelp for every one person who has said it that means there are probably ninety nine people who thought it but just never took the time to write it down so you can't look at a review as just one on one off anecdotal person you have to look at it as a failure to meet a brand promise or an expectation that was set before that person walks into your business and you need to understand and where that is coming from if you want to solve it and prevent it from happening in the future john with with five g. around the corner and in growing reliance on on smartphones i suspect you're seeing more and more yelp reviews being created on the mobile app and and how how do you sort of take that to the next level is it. Is it a are is it using geolocation to say we know this person was in the business when they left the review kind of what's what's the future hold for for yelp in a manifestly mobile world yeah. I think you know we do have some tools that use g._p._s. now. I think like yelp as far is our our business autumn like what we think about. We're always thinking like clicks bricks. Where thank you and how do we drive. Your customers for traffic phone calls on things like that. We've evolved some really you know great tools and functionality <hes> that do that. I think early on we've we've kind of tried to use a g._p._s. really play with mobile and create more interesting incentives along mobile <hes> so one consumer is one of my favorite tools is a check offer of an that uses. That's exclusively on mobile devices. So what what's your businesses is a little offer that somebody sees <hes> on your business age when they're on the app or on the mobile site and new customized for yourself. It's free to setup <hes> and it doesn't cost you anything of anybody. Redeems that it's just an offer that you create that somebody is saying you know check into this business which means that they walk in user g._p._s. G._p._s. hit the button it looks at them from a geography and if they're in the business like chicken and as a result of checking in coming into your business they got a a free canister when they purchase a launcher or whatever the offer is that you wanna create there have been businesses that have been given free hugs handshakes or high fives whatever it is <hes> but like with that that's a really great kind of fun way to engage people a mobile and it's another way that like when when somebody does that kind of puts it in. They're like hey remember you. Were at this business so the next time they come in there and it's top of mind for them so that we we've done it with reviews. I think that's always people on mobile like we have our elite community which are like are super engaged users and reviewers and like it's always mind blowing to me a lengthen detail that people put into reviews. I think they're always going to be different. Cohorts reviewers like they're the people who you know maybe check in and they go to their desktop and they wanna all right the review out. Maybe they're pounding it out on their phone than in there <hes> so i think that's always that's always something to kind of to kind of think about is like how like what is the medium that people are are are sharing this experience with <hes> because you know what you may be lacking review contacts and our content and gun like this is like this is kind of more speculative at this point but like you're you're making up foreign photo content because it's so easy to share and take photos of a business so on mobile so i think like there. There are always going to be content trade offs depending on the medium you yeah that's interesting. I hadn't thought about it that way but it makes a lot of sense right a longer text review on desktop where you've got full keyboard but then and more usage of of photos on mobile because it's just so easy to take on your phone and then posted to yup that's that's fascinating i as i recall aw correctly your terms of service this discourage or prohibit solicitation of reviews and certainly not discourage or prohibit pain people to create a review that that being said it is obviously true that that businesses should seek more reviews <hes> because it's it's great to have additional feedback et cetera so as <hes> <hes> as as the head of a local business outreach. What do you tell businesses who want to get more reviews but you know obviously. They're not going to bribe people to do it. So what is your for best practices on another gene consumers to actually take the time to provide feedback via yelp. Yeah i mean so the obviously they're not going to bribe people to do it. As a little bit is a little bit tricky <hes> because we unfortunately do find instances where businesses try to incentivize and pay people to <hes> write reviews and we actually have a kind of consumer protection initiative where in those instances where we find really agree gis examples of people trying to by worst olympic reviews actually consumer alerts on their page we linked to the evidence of that consumers are aware of what this businesses doing and i always start with. It's kind of this pretty used symbol anecdote in story for businesses and most people can relate to and i think it really paints the don't ask for views in a slightly different light because us for me like like i think as a business when you're when you're concerned kind of myopically on on growing your business you're trying to think how do you get to the next level in the next up up and you think like wall reviews are willing gordon and i see this person on the street and they have a hundred reviews. I only have ten so i need to get to one hundred and like it just becomes assist the focus in the succession. Can you almost become like irrational attached to it in some regards and will do really i mean almost almost anything and actually find that <hes> asking reviews damage your relationships with customers and i've been in a few instances myself where i've actually not gone to businesses like even prior to working at l. <hes> and and drinking mr nascar review kool aid about like you know i once went to barbershop and they grabbed my wrist as i was leaving and the guy was like write me in review right simply because has i'd used his check on offer and he knew that i was a engaged helper but story. I always tell us about is about you. Know rideshare uber and i travel for work. I ended uptaking auto uber is and if you haven't guessed already. I am definitely about person who loves a weird conversation with my uber driver like i'm just like i get in that backseat unlike pretty much blown on outlook heinz ketchup bottle and read the conversation starters right <hes> so like every once in awhile i will end a twenty minute trevor twenty even a conversation where like we're imbibe in connecting. We're having conversations like it's gray like both days are more interesting now and as i'm getting out the guy will just be like five or five right john and like in that moment i wonder and i have to think like didn't we just have a great twenty minute conversation because because we're just two people passing the time imbibing like it was just like authentic when organic or do we just have a great twenty minute conversation so you could get a five star review and as a business a so toxic right like what what what a dangerous idea appointments plans in somebody's head because you're calling into question your own integrity and your authenticity <hes> which it is really going to undermine and undermine the competence you built up with that person in with that customer and you know you always hear the stats like somebody comes to your business. It's like three times in the back four times like seventy whatever percent so now i'm wondering like if i'm back that fourth time is the customer service is going to completely drop off. Awfully what can i trust this business missing since then sell much money advertising in getting not that i caused that new customer in the door that like to ask kerr view that removes consent from the review equation and then puts us weird burden onus on me as their consumer like that's not actually doing you any any favors not short term gain is going to have long term payoff. I think about myself as as i asked this question and also familiar with a lot of statistics <hes> john. I don't know if this from yelp but recently read a study showed that i think the average average person i need to read about forty reviews before they believe there's a correlation between the reviews and the and the points and i think another statistic said that forty three percent of of review you users your product included are only going to look at reviews over the past two weeks so we have this challenge as you said if we can't kind of ask people for reviews <hes> and we need to feed the kitty so to speak. How does this all work. My question for you is this. Have you ever done a study and looked at the review score of people's i yelp review and seeing how it trips that neo is is the first review typically a negative or a very positive one and as people give their twentieth thirtieth fortieth review do do points kind of mellow out batteries. You know that that is interesting. <hes> we haven't we haven't done that study but if i had to guess how that would kind of play out like most businesses as they're getting started my my mom growing up like she ended allie on. I can save first hand experiences. Most businesses are especially hurt. Getting started was a wreck right like like the menu changes fifteen times in the first two months on slide. You're you're changing new products. Stop china over your hours might change like you're you're. You're so focused on getting the ship to float that you're not really big event like will it sell and like i think that if i if i had to guess most people probably don't love writing like a one star review for a brand the new business so i'd bet that most kind of initial reviews skewed positive and then maybe that first ten starts being a more honest read <hes> and then over for a time if like as the business grows and evolves inserts figuring things out i would imagine that it would start trending up but that's i mean that's we haven't. We haven't done that data but i'm you. I'm gonna be all right now. I've got about fifty other studies. I want you guys to run so we'll talk about a plan. I got a whole list of it goes to put together. We'll do it together. We'll <hes> we'll have you back on the show to talk about new stuff. How do you guys. I know you mentioned. You're gonna building out a larger content marketing team. Being which we think is terrific obviously <hes> how do you guys use social as yelp using social for for customer service in your own words. If you've got businesses or consumers <hes> who who have an issue with the platform are they reaching out to you on twitter facebook instagram etcetera. How does that all that work yeah so we right now for for businesses <hes> we primarily focus on twitter as a consumer like consumer platform. We have instagram twitter. I and we also had some pages for all local communities so so yelp has kind of an interesting an interesting challenge not like where national brands but also we have these really robust local communities throughout <hes> show the country so <hes> what my local business outreaching does is we have like people in certain markets it's kind of out the country who are kind of either managing region or or that city and doing events there and and really cultivating community <hes> but there are counterparts were the consumer side who are really you know cultivating that elite community so like right now for businesses focus on twitter and we of course like kinda the best practices there of responding promptly <hes> you know saying on top of it like that that is something that our social team actively manages <hes>. It's something that we actually are very recently getting into as our organization is betraying in our in our marketing organizations which are in <hes>. That's a channel that were definitely building out and something that we see. She has more important so shameless plug at yelp for business. If you're looking for a business owner tips advice but while that will probably expand. I think you you know like other other. Communities and other spaces are relevant there as well like lincoln facebook instagram which are social team is it keeps on telling me is really important. I think i struggle with that. One a little bit because i like it's just visual that i find that you know what tends to do. Well will <hes> and what we are really good as more of the information side of things so you know i will still be convinced by them and you know but again like this is is like that is their expertise and i defer to the experts in in situations like that john. I'm i'm curious as it relates to content marketing for yelp which again in and it's it's by definition a kind of content type of company with all this user generated content as you look at content marketing. Something is a question that our listeners probably asked themselves selves. I see kind of three ways that you could use it. You could talk about yelp like you're talking about and how you manage reviews your product being it on the i tuned store or the <hes> the android marketplace you talk about how your customers retailers and establishments use yelp to to manage and curate engage with customers or or you can talk about the end consumer and how they get all this information talk about how you kind of balance. Those priorities are those pillars. There are other pillars that i haven't thought about yeah so why things and actually this is you know right out of right outta the jaber talk <hes> we kinda go with that like you know seven eight or nine to to one ratio where like ideally that is that is what we're doing for <hes> we because we haven't had a super <hes> like haven't had a super robots this country marketing program what we're doing right now is. We're just covering the groundwork like we're we're. We're doing some of that like product marketing go to market launch on ch pieces that we frankly probably should've add <hes> when we brought some these products so you know basic guides for products in entity oriels and end video clinton and some of that so <hes> we're doing some that brown that groundwork so i would say that that ratio is a little bit out of whack for us right now <hes> we when we started our content marketing program we actually worked with an agency who did some keyword research for us and the keyword research and kind of the topic that they decided on <hes> that we started to try to kind of go deep with toubon <hes> we've kind of found. His is a little bit to broaden. I think this is a challenge. All quanta marketers have is like the help metallica's really wonderful but it does have to have kind of adjacency to what you're talking out so <hes> example this as we're building our content marketing team and actually where we're interviewing somebody to to be my boss exciting. <hes> is like we have to like if you're taking a piece about how financing your small business and you'll get yelp and you look at a credit card company or a bank or anything like that like you know nine out of ten times. Somebody's probably going to go with that bank. <hes> and the pizza content from that bank card's yelp so how do we kind of tighten a narrower scope and our focus to things that are really adjacent to what we're doing as a company and that we're using thing is he's almost like bridge topics and bridge subjects that like you know we're talking to finance or probably five steps before we can. We can pivot that through successor articles all the things like that into conversation more directly about yelp but if we're talking about something like improve your customer service. We're talking about something like you know <hes> creating trusted consumer or or something like that then maybe we're only one or two steps away from getting them to read something directly about yelp. So <hes> like the reality is our <unk> are ratio is not yet in that ideal spot <hes> but like the good news is like once we do and we clear the unclear groundwork land cleared this brush than going forward. That's something that we strategically have really aligned on in early as i like where we are down to help right and we're here to help <hes> and with content marketing. It's it's not about like like selling cheer costumer. It's communicating to your customer communicating with your customer without selling going to them. I'm gonna think onto mark is what we do that is is everything but communicating to our customer while selling to them so <hes> that's. That's really okay how we think about the different in helping yelp is just one letter so keep they go on a t-shirt near you. I think it's it's <hes> it's a really great idea because there's a lot of misinformation misinformation disinformation in the business community about yelp and how it works and how you should handle it in those kinds of things and i think that's partially because the company hasn't done <hes> a ton of content marketing historically and you know <hes> nature aboard vacuum right and so so without information from you people are going to kind of draw their own inclusions or or rely on other sources of content marketing so yeah i think it's going to benefit the organization to to lean in to that approach speaking of leaning in the one the thing i wanted to ask you before we get to the big two if you told us off air that you are a near legendary perhaps truly legendary billiards player a pool shark and so i want. I want you to touch on that a little bit because you don't get a lot of pool sharks here in the social pros podcast <hes> to become a pool shark requires a great deal of time and effort and i and and i want to know how that happened in why you chose to make that your <hes> your one thing yeah so that's a near legendary i i'm i'm i'm also a fan of hyperbole so thank you but the so when i was a kid my parents type around divorced when i was a kid and my <hes> my dad lived in nash winning hampshire in <hes> turns out other than the mall others not too much to do and nash owning hampshire <hes> so open and confirmed that that there's not that i mean you know there's there's no day but back in the day like as a as a thirteen year old or a ten year old kid who was like respond world which is like in fact a very fun world world <hes> and then there was definitely mall in the mirror is there was pool <hes> so so my dad was just like you. He always played pool kind of growing up so he would shake me and like initially. I was like really bad and my dad has a hilarious guy because he is like mercilus like he doesn't. He doesn't believe in like kitty. Rules will are like oh. You got to shots because you can barely hold us jack like he will he he is. I will destroy you and like you will learn like trial by fire. The only time i everyone was when he like accidentally scratched on the ball so so that was that that was my childhood <hes> and like so from there. I was just like well. I'm gonna get really good at this and then when i moved to new york i right after school i you know tried out a bunch of different activities and just trying to like make make friends and things like that and could always enjoy enjoy doing was like everybody in new york. <hes> seems to have able so <hes> we would always i would just always end up playing there and then through that i actually met somebody who is in a league league on it turns out that new york has a really awesome l._g._b._t._q. Fully and i ended up joining that league and then briefly before i relocated san francisco is actually the president of the league <hes> so really it started as something that <hes> like i just picked up as a kid and really enjoy doing and then when i moved to new york it was a great way past. <hes> pass socialized <hes>. Let me tell you this <hes> playing pool as an adult is really a lesson in state dependent memory which i'm not sure if you're familiar with that that is <hes> but state dependent memory has been much like if you learn something in a certain state like say after a couple of drinks you are going to be best in that when that state has relegated ahead so really wolf becoming good at pool is also having to be kinda good at pool in multiple states of your life and in multiple states in itself so it is multiply that hundred hours by three uh-huh learn learn it three different times pretty much pretty much yeah. It's it's it's amazing. I feel like i feel like pool and darts. It's and billiard and pool. Let's pool darts and bowling. I think all share the same contradiction in that you know if you have a couple of beers you all of a sudden get better and then you get a lot worse right. There's there's like this. Roller coaster. Bell curve the wow. This couple beers is really helping me focus and then it goes right right off the rails at least grants. I remember volume funny mentioned bowling in my first job. I remember like you know we had this big. I was at macy's and we had this big lake. <hes> team oxide gonna just before the holidays and my boss is like oh like the woman who's in charge of our entire division vision is really good at bowling or do you like. Are you going. I'm like no. I'm like terrible bowling and of course he got the party out of all the drinks and like i bowl the turkey how the boss my boss is just like. Are you kidding me right now and like me and my lady who's the head of the divisions like all high fives all over the place like loving. My bosses just like what is going on. I thought you said you weren't gonna bullying and i was like i wasn't apparently i'm not that bad. John carroll is the senior manager of local business outreach <hes> yelp and also an expert at all bar games evidently so if you ever run across it minute conference do not play him for money at anything that is is my advice john. We're gonna ask you the two questions we've asked everybody here on. This sort of pros podcasts all way back for our first episode in two thousand twelve january of two thousand twelve to be specific. <hes> first question is if you could give somebody somebody wanted somebody who's looking to become a social pro. What would you tell them yeah. I mean this is. This is probably a tip <hes> that you've heard before but it just simply like know who you are trying to become a pro at talking to <hes>. I think that that is like knowing your audiences is the single almost important thing that you can do and oftentimes you don't know you're nearly as well as you think you find somebody else who's trying to talk to same or similar audience and learn from them <hes> so i'd say figure out who you're talking to know more and then find a mentor who can actually coach you and help you and mentor doesn't have to necessarily be a tangible i._r._l. Mentor <hes> that mentor can be the website or the content that you or that you followers subscribe to that you that you kind of brush up on a podcast that you listen to a webinar or that. You know you tune in to regularly. I don't think i don't think mentor necessarily has the most conventional definition these days. That's terrific advice. I think that's that is spot on and one of the ways you can learning metro. Audiences actually pay attention to your views and really listen to what people are saying last question for you. John carroll is if you could do a video call with any living living person <hes> who would it be and why preferably professional billiards player but you so other fun fact about me <hes> when i was at indiana he ended university bloomington shot up to bloomington jay <hes> i was a finance marketing art history major so have have always loved <hes> art and museums when i was in <hes> denmark we're onto the louisiana and there happened to be this marina abramovich <hes> <hes> exhibit and it's very seldom. I think that like when you are walking through museum like you turn a corner u._c. Something like just like makes you stop and unlike feel viscerally like anxious or excited or whatever it is and i remember going through the museum turning the corner and there was this one piece that i definitely recommend that you look up and it's called rest energy and it's marina and her partner who who lay and she is holding the shopped of a bow and arrow and it is there is an arrow nocturne it and he is pulling the string back and they're kind of leaning backwards in this the on the arrow pointed right utter heart <hes> and it is one of the most difficult tense nerve racking things that you can possibly watch and even in the context of a museum exhibit that you know she lives for another gig alive like you can see some of the words that she's making now talk of two years ago like whatever it is still just like so difficult and exciting using blotch so <hes> for me i think i think just sitting down and talking to her and actually just letting her talk abby would be phenomenal terrific answer. We'll make linked up in the show notes so to see that peace. We'll find a we'll find an image of it. <hes> put it on social pros. Dot com will have a transcript show and also will link up to some of the research resources <hes> the john and his team have created because you can grab those as well john thanks so much for being on the show terrific job congratulations on all the great success at yelp and your billiards accomplishments as well. Thank you here in bloomington. Come back for homecoming or something. We'll <hes> we'll do it up. Find a pool table on just completely. Give you all my mother. He's john from yellow. Peas also adam brown from a sales force marketing cloud. I'm jay baer from convincing and read. This has been hopefully your favorite favor podcast in the whole darn world is the social pros podcasts if you hadn't had a chance to leave us a rating review on itunes spotify stitcher wherever you get your podcast. That'd be super cool if if you did that. We'd really appreciate it. We'll be back next week with another fantastic guests. Don't forget every single episode is on social pros dot com. We'll see them. Thanks much.
017: Quitting Your Job
"This is life of an architect podcast dedicated to all things architecture with a little bit of life thrown in for balance. Today's episode is brought to you supported by Pella windows. It happens to almost all of us eventually and for pretty much everyone the experience ranges from unpleasant to downright panic-inducing. So get your moving box ready because quitting your job is today's topic. Hi, I'm Bob Borsen. And I'm Andrew Hauge. And today, we're talking about quitting your job and all that entails. Andrew, would you be surprised to learn that I have quit a lot of jobs not surprised at? Oh, man. Why you should be totally on nine. Dear, you know. Attention deficit disorder stuff going on you gotta have like a thousand things happening. Okay. Well, maybe it I have quit a lot of jobs. I guess I'm a little heart that that's not a surprise. Because I know you, okay. I for the listeners probably not right. They're probably like. Yeah. I mean, he's a steady rock but stand up, and I am better. I'm all those things but did doses. I have. I have quite a lot of jobs, but I have because I've quit so many. I have experienced the ramifications of doing it, right? And at least on one and kind of two if we get into occasions doing it horribly wrong, like whenever I tell the story which I'll tell today people go. What were you thinking? Yeah. So yeah, that's a good one. That's when you know, you've been a ride with like what what man how many unprofessional jobs. Have you quit oh of several, but you know, the worst one I think it was when I worked at a car wash for one day when I was sixteen why? I vacuum. I was I was the vacuum station. Right. So the very beginning. And this is the kind where you kind of drop off your car, and then they vacuum it. And then it goes through the automatic wash. So you could a job at a car wash. Yes. Because it was too hard. No. It wasn't too hard. I feel like maybe they felt like it was just you know, I was better than that. That's really what it was. It was that. And actually, I got a job the next day being a lifeguard. So that was like, you know, one of my to do do own a vacuum out cars in a long sleeved shirt in the middle of the summer. Or would I rather sit by pool and kind of not do anything. So I chose to lifeguards out there. Saving lives everyday listen lifeguard. I can say that right? It's like I was a lifeguard for a lot of years after that in a swim instructor. So that was my one day job. How'd you quit? Didn't you up the next day? I never got paid for it. Nothing. I just was a sixteen year old kid. And I was like, yeah. I'm not coming back. I still have the hat. I found it the other day. My parents house. You're a jerk. I am a jerk. I am a jerk. Weren't you busboy to? Yeah. It was. But that was longer that lasted a while like a couple of weeks. Yeah. Several weeks, but the the car wash they didn't even make it to a month. No. I think I think I made a month the cool thing about the car which is like a guide to dry. I think I was so excited because I got to drive like Reseda. He's like from the vacuum station to the automatic drive through car wash thing, right? It was a matter of like thirty feet. Well, for our purposes that doesn't do any good because we'll just go ahead and jump to the end in that particular line of questioning and say don't ever quit your job just by not showing up. This is true. This is not a good thing to do at any point in your life. Even though at sixteen it might have been somewhat excusable, and I'm sure they didn't miss me. But you don't think they miss your vacuuming skills now? I don't think so I don't think so at all, okay. Well, all right. I'm going to take the reins on this since I've quit, so many professional jobs. I think that's fair. So after twenty five years, I'm on my eighth job twenty-five years. I'm doing the math which kind of doesn't sound that bad when I put it that way to refer us. Yeah. But I had I had six jobs in the first ten of those twenty five. Here you go. Thanks different. And it's been two for the last fifteen or so so you're just active early in your career. You were just acted changed. A lot of jobs in the beginning. And I will go on to say that the architecture community is very small. I've learned just how small it is in the last ten or fifteen years, and how you quit your job is really important. There is only one job where I had quit and such a bad manner. I mean, spectacularly bad just one just one of the eight. Well, I well. Yeah. Yeah. Most of them. I didn't have a problem quitting decide. Hey, I want to be here anymore. Thanks. You guys been awesome. And I left, and it wasn't that big a deal. So even the bad when you cook was amicable over just like really big it was really bad. And I'll tell that story I was like with here. So this was I worked for an interiors firm that did pretty much five star historic renovation projects. I think I was the only architect on. Staff. Everyone else was an interior designer which really doesn't figure into the story in a lot of ways. But maybe did in. Why why I didn't wanna be there so much anymore, but we got a new project. And I mean, I I worked really hard on spent a lot of time. I mean, I really I earned my spot and on the day that I quit. I get brought into the office where they give me a raise and a promotion. It's a smart move. Yeah. Sounds right. They're making a play there. Like, your guy won't keep you here. Just push that gift horse right in the face and about an hour idea. So. So to celebrate my new raise and promotion, one of the partners took me out to lunch now, I need to set the table a little bit because this guy, and I we didn't really get along. I mean, it might have been one sided, and I will be the first one to say that looking back on this. I'm one hundred percent the wrong everything I did about this was wrong. You didn't get along. Meaning aka you didn't like him. I didn't. Well, you know, he he was just one of these. So on this project. Here's a good example, he would swoop in town. He ran one of the other offices. And you know, he he came from a corporate culture. He had definitely had some skins on the wall. You know, he knew what he was doing. He was not he was not a dummy. Right. He wasn't just a jerk. But he came swooping in town. And I'm readily admitting that I had problem with authority at this time in my career, right? I I had a higher Pinon myself than either end for sure totally and he comes in. And he I'm bringing them up to date on this project. I've been working on which I think I'd just Slade it. It's. Awesome. It's very design oriented, and he just kind of goes move this door to here. And I said why and I'm sure I said it like you're needy. It why. Why dude? Yeah. I mean, I didn't say any of those words, I'm sure the tone in the body posture and Mike the rolling of is. But in my mind, what I struggled with at that point in my career was I felt that we had a mutually beneficial relationship. I wasn't there just to get a job done and get paid. I was there to learn from these people like they knew the not more than I did. And so this was supposed to be collaborative. So when somebody says move, something, and my mind, I want to know why I put some logic behind why? I solved it the way. I did. And so next time if needed to be somewhere for some reason than you would know, right? Learn something along the way, and I should say that I was not right out of school. I was probably five or six years out of school does point. So I mean, I wasn't that green. I look back on a now. I was I mean, you knew some stuff. He's like, yeah. Yeah. And so so I said why and his answer was because I said, so and in my mind, I went oh, hell, no. And I was like that was in answer. I go that just so that sent the that set the bar for how I was with him like in that moment, I lost respect for him. And we'll get into this later because you can work with someone you don't like, but it's really hard to work for someone. You don't respect. Yeah. And there's a big difference. So this was the day. This wasn't the day. Not the day the day that set the tone for this guy for for me. Just like, I got you. I just I want you know, what I don't like him. I don't like I don't like what he's about. I like nothing about him. And so the mole you pass judgment. And he was a tool. I mean in my defense, he was kind of a tool, but that doesn't mean he didn't know what he was talking about. And so like we were travelling once a day. Here's another little side story just paint a picture here. We went to San Francisco for this project, and he calls me up in my hotel room. He goes he goes put on your good clothes. I got us. Reservations at the best restaurant in town. It's going to be a musing, and I was kind of like, okay. Right. San Francisco's got some nice restaurants is kind of a big deal. But for like the first I don't know like eighty percent of the meal. All we heard about was how hard this restaurant is to get in. And the waiting list is like a year. But he knows a guy who got us in because that's how important he is. He got into day. Yeah. We got us in right now at this five thirty seating. I got us in here today at four o'clock, right? Those are not those are the waiters that are eating next to us. It wasn't like that. That would have been funny. It wasn't like that. So he's he's just just so congratulatory on himself the whole conversation. I've just an already don't really like the guy. Yeah. And so he says to me isn't this like the best meal you've ever had in your life that which is a way for him to kinda get another backhanded compliment in on himself. Oh my God. Yes. Yeah. And I went great TIMMY, no at that time life. I was like no this isn't the best meal. I've ever had my life by a long shot. Any now, I'm just picking a fight. And he goes, whoa. What's better than this? And I was like I'd rather reading chicken wings in front of my TV at home this. Total jerk. All right. I mean. Yeah. I mean, I knew what was going on. And I didn't have to do it. So we we just had kind of this. He was like, I'm great. And I was like, I don't think you're great. They like everything all my everywhere. I dealt with this guy was combative and a lot of ways so fast. That's your full. It's totally my as much one hundred percent my fault. It is anybody else's. Yeah. But what I will disagree. It's totally his fault that he did the because I said, so we'll yet because that was the that was the thing I went all right? I can't be a part of this. Right. That that's not why I'm here. So fast forward to the day of my departure. And we got to this burger joint. That's like a half hour drive from our office, which I don't know why we went so far away to have this celebratory. Was it hard to get into with? No with burger joint down. It was a good burger joint. But it wasn't it wasn't special in in that regard. So we're sitting there. And we we order our food. And he starts telling me all the reasons why like you're really great at this. But if you stopped sucking, you wouldn't suck. I mean, it's basically what it was. And which I didn't respond to very well. And so we kind of I don't know we kind of got into a little verbal jousting a little bit. It ended with him saying what you don't like this. I was like, yeah. I don't like it like in the sense, isn't the greatest thing ever. And I was like, no. And he goes, well, what are you going to do? But you're gonna quit. I went done. I quit right in nice. I quit because he dared me to quit. And I'm like, all right. I'm done I'm out and the thing about it was our food hadn't shown up yet. So we then sat there not talking to each other the most silent lunch ever not talking and they brought our food which we then commenced to eating like we couldn't have. We could've said to go was the thing that said, hey, can you get this? Hello now. We've changed our plans. Now, we sat there, and we ate it without talking to each other. Then we got on the car and drove for thirty minutes back to the office without talking to each other. We get back in the office. He goes directly into the senior manager know partners office tells her she's upset like, she cries. Because she's like that's the guy that does all the drawings, essentially. He's the guy who knows how to make this work. Now, I won't go that far. He's the guy who pushes the cat buttons. They're like really this guy works hardy shows up. He does his job in hair. So I mean, everything about this was fine. Like, I was a great employees. But I just didn't go well with that guy. So I quit that job and out of all the jobs. I've quit that's the one. I look back on. And I went hundred percent my fault. Did it exactly the worst possible way ever it ended badly? And now I feel such shame associated with how I handled myself. I don't want to see any of those people ever give like if for some reason, I avoid them in the hallway walk into a ballroom and somebody goes, you know, such and such as over there. I'm like, I'm out. It was nice being here. I gotta go can't do it. Now, the the senior manager partner, she's been great. She's kind of kept an eye on my career as I've kind of got she sent me notes from time to time congratulating me on certain milestones. And things that have gone, right? So she was always been very. Nice. But oh, yeah. I it's a bad thing to do. I mean to me there that to me that's close to just never showing up again on early. It's pretty close pretty close. Yeah. Especially well. Not so much as if it was a real job like a profession and not showing up the next day. Yeah. Had I done that. But that's pretty brutal that one was bad. But I mean, at least I think it's better though, he didn't it doesn't sound like, right? Could you could get into the whole to me the worst case scenario with somebody like yelling and screaming and Cussing and throwing stuff? Yeah. Exactly. It's just throwing junk, you know, where it's like. Oh security. Yeah. You have to get like escorted off the premises. That's bad. But yeah, I don't even know if I could imagine anybody in our proficient ever doing something like now the thing that makes it burns for me. It's not that. I acted like a monster. It was that I handled myself unprofessionally Horley. That's that's what bothers me because I would never have flipped table. I park Inova lifted. One just flip the finger. Yeah. I just I wasn't ever that guy. Right. And it's probably why I never quit a job like that. For before. But more some about that the way that happened. The only good that came out of it is it shaped how I handled every time. I quit a job for the rest of my career. So did you come out of that though where you feeling pretty high and mighty women's done? No, no. They weren't really like I mean and the moment where you're like, I stuck it to that jerk. No. Because I had to sit there and not talking to them for half hour while we waited for food in eight it and then another half. I mean, it just it took like if I could slam the door and walked out, you know, there was no exit. It just kind of city think that was kind of intentional on his part though for him. It may not a big deal. But for you like, yeah. This is going to make him suffer. I think it was kind of a big deal. Yeah. I think it was kind of a big deal. I don't know. I just wonder if you know, it's one of those things for me, if I was been a situation, I was him out of been whatever I would have done whatever it could have done to make it more uncomfortable for you. Oh, like, he quit, man. I'm it's going to be the next hour is going to be the worst hours of. Okay. True. Then I give him more credit for being mock villian than I ever made. Maybe that's what he was doing. Yeah. Well, he got in trouble for like allowing that to happen. You know, so part of that win when I went back in the office. You know, he went said, okay, Boston just quit and they're scrambling. And she was yelling at him saying shouldn't have gotten to that point. You shouldn't have let it get there. I mean, she was not happy about the whole thing. She was his boss this while she was Saint she was the senior partner at that time. And he was as well, it was her company 'cause she brought him and another person in and they all had different VAT levels of both energy. And then over time they would all end up being equal partners in this was kind of towards the beginning of that. So she was really she was the heavy for sure okay for sure. So that was a learning experience for me. And I can tell you that there are other jobs. I quit that didn't go badly. I mean, normally what happens is I would I'd Fred over it. And I feel bad and I'd ride up a letter, which we'll talk about later. You know, my process for how I would let people know I was going, and then I would leave and probably about half the time. They said, okay. Great. Thanks, and I you can leave. Now, I think maybe not even half. Maybe a couple times I'm trying to think of how many I can't actually think of any. I'm sure. Sure. But I'm sure there were couple of since you've never quit a job at least not a professional one. And are now the we should talk about that a little bit. So the reason why you've never quit a job. It's because the first job you got that guy made you brought you on eventually as a partner. And now you own that firm outright. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So you went from employees to owner. I don't need to quit it no need to quit. So you probably had some people quit on you though. Yeah. Half. I have a few not many the most the time. I've only had I think maybe one that really flat out quit quit. The other was were attrition est. Type things right. Where I'm going my boyfriend girlfriend. I'm gonna go this. I'm leaving town moving away. Whatever I don't really it wasn't personal. I don't really count that. Right. It wasn't about the job that I was having them do or that they were working on. It was more about other things outside their personal lives that they needed to. Okay. So the person that that quote, unquote, quite quit. Yeah. How the handle it? But they do not very well. They quit while it was -cation. They didn't. They just didn't tell you came back or. No I had. Yeah. Whose Email essentially, it's the worst Email, right? So I was on vacation. And they were really what it was about ended up coming down. It was sort of a they wanted to negotiate their current position. While I was on vacation in Colorado when I had like zero service, and those kind of things Email. Yeah. As very sporadic, right? And so I didn't I didn't have the opportunity to do much about it. And because I can't I shine. My just couldn't be like. Oh, yeah. So I kinda offer you this much more money, and you can do right? I mean, I'm practically in a cabin with some, you know, s'mores, and that's about all I got when I got back. They had already accepted another job. Yeah. I get back to them going. I've got another job here in the same town, which is a small town where I'm at. But the takeaway should have been okay. If that's a conversation that's worth having it should be happened in person for differently. Definitely not electrically. No. I don't think. So at all the issue that I. I think in that whole scenario was is that they were little bit unhappy with things, but they never mentioned it to me. Right. They never had. We need to have a conversation before. Which is all bottled this habit was all just bottled up. Yeah. I mean, I liked what they did. And they did good work, and I enjoyed them in the office. And I mean, I didn't like to lose them. And I definitely did lose him in the way that I lost them chur. But I think it could have been handled better. Sure. I mean, just the fact that they tried to move their station electrically through electron correspondence. And then either your inability or lack of the desire to deal with it through electron correspondence, put them off enough to where they're like they punted out. I'm just going to go somewhere else. Well, yes. And no, I mean, the the because the whole I think the whole impetus was for the conversation was that they had been interviewed or they had interviewed for another job and got offered a job out. And that's why they said I want more for major. Yeah. Yeah. Which not that I wasn't willing to give. But I wasn't in that time conversation. Yeah. You have to see this person every once in a while. I'm happy for them if they're still doing. Well, that's great. But I wish they were doing well in my office some other office right now, I get that you know, other than that. I mean, I've had a couple of other. Maybe just one of the quick, but they were just flaky, right? I mean is this they left I want to work anymore. Well, since you've never been on this side of it. I can tell you that even when I left places, I've looked places that are really liked. But I felt it was not where I needed to be or you know, I quit a bunch of jobs in the early days because I felt like I was doing the same thing. Just I quit jobs, and I went somewhere else for different opportunity, and I'm doing the same stuff again. Yeah. And in I've talked about a lot of times on the blog and on these podcasts, it takes a while when you're younger to kind of rationalize what you wanna do versus what you're good at. And what people are willing to pay you to do. It takes time to figure it out. And they all have to come in some sort of alignment. Yeah. So I changed a lot of jobs because I was bored because I felt like I need to be a better architect that I'm not gonna learn how to do that here. So I left a lot of these were like, how am I going to pass the AARP? The architectural registration exam if I keep working here because all they have me doing is talking to people in doing some design work, I need to learn how buildings get built I left jobs for that. And I can tell you as someone who has left jobs that I liked in addition to lobs jobs. I didn't like it's agonizing the amount of stress you put on yourself like how am I going to do it? When do I tell them? Oh, you know, I'm having a heart attack. It's terrible. But I'll also tell you someone who has fired people before. Oh, it's way worse to fire somebody than it is for to quit. My question is do you think everybody agonizes over the notion of quitting or not? Because I don't think you agonize much over when you quit over burgers right here. Like, I'm out, dude. But I didn't get over that. But but I have agonized over how I did over since. Yeah decades. But I just wonder if like some people just don't right there. Just like man amount. I'm not sure that true. Sure, there's some truth to that. But most of the people I talked to tell me that. Hey, I'm not happy. See where I'm at. I get asked. How should I quit my job? You know, what I say be professional about it? Even if you hate everybody there, and you wanna scorch earth, the whole thing don't do it because close the door does nor down dimicco upside to that? Don't burn down just close it walkaway. That's part of the reason why we were kind of thinking, hey, what should we talk about? As we need to talk about quitting your job. Because I know it's stressful. I know people even when they don't want to be there. Most people least the ones that I've heard from. It's something that they lose sleep over. Once you finally make the decision to quit, how long it's gonna take me to actually do everything becomes toxic while a mentally checking out, but I slept to be there. And who do I tell on how do I tell them, and they're gonna be mad at me? You know, there's all these dynamics and since I've worked for small firms it personal. When I quit. I mean, they kind of take it like your quitting meek, not the company. Yeah. So we need to some extent is kind of true. I mean, sure it's hard for me not to take that way. When people even if it's because they're boyfriend is going somewhere their girlfriend is going somewhere. Whatever I'm like, I'm not good enough for you to stay. You're not gonna leave your boyfriend data. Hey, dad. I'm like, I'm not good enough that you want to make him or her stay in find a job here. They don't need to go somewhere else. Yeah. They can find a job. You have a job here. You know? Yeah. Doesn't work that way. It's hard. Not to take it personal in the smaller office. I think well, I did quit a job from a large office and kind of to if I take the two largest ones like quit one of them. They didn't care seems like in my mind, my mind, they don't care because it happens. Probably every day they used to it. I mean, he he cared in the sense that he's like are you sure I mean, we really like having you here. But this is if this is the right move for you, then I wish you well. I mean, they they I handled it well they handled it. Well, we parted amicably. Right. Everything was fine. I still see those people. I don't run away from them. Avoid it went. Well, yeah. You know, the second law that was when I quit the largest shop. That's how that one went the second largest firm when I quit they were right in between is about fifty people. And it was it was a little personal. And but I got some of the best advice I ever received because he sat down and told me the guy quit, you know, when I went told him, and it was hard because I liked him. I liked everyone. I worked with. I just wanna be there. Mentally, just not place for me to be. So a firm of the sizes. Are you is this your sort of direct supervisor? Or was it somebody your like your supervisors supervisor kind of thing that was kind of my direct supervisor small enough to where there's like five principles and you deal with one of those five. Yeah, you might like if it's his it's that partners project. So you work with that guy. Okay. Almost everything I did was for this guy noca-, right? When I quit. And I went to talk to him about it. He's very nice. He's very respectful about it. And he said one day. You're going to have to eat your vegetables. And I didn't really know what that meant. And he, of course, being who he is took that opportunity to explain that to me, and the lesson that I got from it was he told me that when I'm doing something that I wanna do from working on a project that I'm I think is a great project or I'm into it. It's exciting. Everybody wants me on that job. Like, the greatest your superintendent. But if I don't want to work on that job, I'm an anchor. Right. It's just it's terrible. And he basically saying you need to figure out that. No had been waiting a long time. Can I can only imagine how bad it used to be? Oh, please. What we never worked together. And just even on this podcast. You know, I'm maniacal about style. I'm aware. So it's never questioned. Now. It hasn't been a question of the point of this is that, but I'm saying the parts that you don't like if you don't like the anchor that you can be no, I don't think that's true. Okay. We'll talk about that offense. But the point of it is that as a professional, you should do just as good a job to you the best of your abilities, regardless of whether or not you like it or you don't like it or not you like the project, and I would say, you wouldn't know because you don't work in my office, whether or not I do hard work are poor work on jobs. I like don't like, and I would say none of my clients know the difference either. Because I learned that lesson when I quit that job. And I was like that's a valid point. And when somebody tells you like, that's the takeaway that you get that everybody wants you on the job when you like it, and nobody wants you on the job when you don't like it. I mean that was probably the most single sobering feedback. I ever got from somebody ever worked with other thing. I think that's great advice across the board me like sure that whoever that was great favor while here's I'll tell you. It is later, but the thing about it is not only my still friends with this person. He was one of the people that wrote my recommendation for elevated to fellowship. Oh, and this is this. Yeah. So it's the idea that even though I quit this job. I'm pretty sure almost everybody. Except for the burger guy would probably have taken me back. Right. It has to do with how a handle myself, but it's the taste. I left in everyone's mouth, by the way in which I left so was this early or like in jobs numbers of tin was this like early on or kind of middle road is probably job three. Okay. So pretty early early. Yeah. Probably your five or so. Yeah. That's a good thing to learn. I think that early in your career when I have somebody tell you that. Yeah. And you know, it made a difference. More from life of an architect in a moment. Every once in a while, you come across a product to makes you think why didn't I think of that one that I know I will talk about is the first time I saw the new integrated role screen by Pella at the national AI convention, and I was completely blown away by it. I actually think I called it a game changer when I was shown it. It's almost one of those things you need to see in person. But I'm going to try to describe it to you. The screen is hidden at the top and bottom of the window. Imagine kind of an old school roller shade the screen unrolls from below the sills you raise the lower sash and from above the head as you lowered the top sash, the other cool thing is you don't lose any of the Tilton cleaning functionality that our clients have come to expect the screen automatically disengages when you tilt the window in for cleaning. And then Rian gauges when you close it. That's pretty cool architects spend a lot of time. Sweating the details to get a great looking window. But the screen is one of those things that well, you need it functionally. But you kinda wish it wasn't there. I guess we could ask our clients to never open a window which I've done before. But you don't need to with this type screen. This innovation is so obvious in so clever. No storage. No taking screens in and out during seasonal changes, no cleaning because it is literally hidden in the frame of the window. And only opens if the window is open trust me and go check out this product on his website. Pella dot com. Innovating quality products is something Pella has been passionate about since nineteen twenty five when they first opened their doors over ninety years ago their product was patented Casement window roll screen retractable screen yet. That's how they got their start a screen that rolled up out of the way. When it wasn't a news at the time. This was incredibly revolutionary and it still offered today. And they're building upon that legacy with this new integrated role screen hells focus on innovation has produced another winner. And it's a great example of the way they think about their products. Spire design exceptional detail. Go check them out at power dot com. I think that we should take a moment and talk about why somebody should quit a job because there's reasons why you should not be where you're at anymore. So there are indirect reasons why you should quit a job like going back to school moving to another city or state or your significant other is moving in that you're following them to wherever they're getting relocated to. But we're not going to talk about those things because those aren't personal those aren't really like no one's going to be mad like I wouldn't be mad. Why haven't been mad when somebody says my husband got a job over here? And this is important. So I'm giving my notice I was disappointed, but it I wasn't disappointed angry about it. Yeah. I mean, you deep disappointed station, but you can't get mad at them for that. So let's talk about the direct reasons why you would quit a job of all the jobs that I quit. The main reason I left is that I was looking to do something else. So this has to do with opportunities. Elsewhere. It wasn't because things. Necessarily bad were a was I just wanted to do something different. And most of the people I worked with took it pretty well in the act of telling that person that I was leaving was not a big deal. Only. Once did somebody feel the need to sit me down to tell me why this might be a bad decision. And that was the each vegetables guy. So by that, and you say opportunities in most situations did you other than the burger episode? Did you quit knowing you already had another job? No, see this was the this was the era of milk and Honey for architects. Late eighties. It was bad in the late eighties. So ninety two is when I got my first shop in economy was pretty bad. But it recovered starting around ninety three ninety four. And so all sudden that void that existed of my experience level didn't exist because the economy's bad. So those people stopped going into the profession. So for the next ten years. It was not hard for me to get a job. And not because I was great. It was I'd I'd like to think that I was great. I got those jobs because they needed people, right? There was almost always a need. So I never quit a job. Never once that I take a job somewhere else while in the employ of my current position. Okay. To quit to go work somewhere else that never happened. So I mean, it's not so much. I'm just trying to think that maybe -tunities not the right word or maybe it is it's opportunity, but it's used seeking an opportunity. Not that one was presented to you. Well, it could be either one of those in my case, it wasn't somebody came to me saying, well, that's not entirely true. The the job I have now the partnership I have now Michael reached out to me. Me actually electronically. I was in Hawaii on vacation. And I was talking to my wife saying, you know, do I need to make a change. Everything seemed really static. I've been in the same place for a long time. Nothing seems to be changing. Yeah. What should I do being? My phone goes off fantastic. I looked down. It's a text for Michael and says, I want you to come work for me as a partner, and I'll change the name of the company, and then we got on a boat law cell coverage for forty five minutes, and I couldn't respond. Cricket. He's on the other end going down. I shouldn't have done it. Now. He's like he he told me you didn't respond. I send that kind of text message. And I don't hear from you for like an hour. And I was like I was on a ferry in Hawaii is there was no cell coverage in the ocean. I was hard and it was hard decision for me. Because while I there were things about the job. I was in my last job. I liked all those people. I loved my job. I like the people that I work with. So it was not it was not an easy decision. Well, those are the to me those are the toughest I think, right. Like to quit a situation that you're for the most part happy with right? Oh, like, those are the hardest ones. Those are the hardest things. I think the idea that you would quit a job that you like to take another job because you think it might be a better. But yet, and I think that's really tough. Right. I mean, it was hard a lot of times. It's I feel like sometimes from my experience and not my own experience. But my experience with others in listening and hearing that it's not always the best. Sometimes it's you think it's good to leave a good situation. But it's not. Yeah. Right. But you don't learn that until it's. Too late. It's too. That's the heaviest decision not ones where either you like to people. But you really don't like what you're doing. Well, those heavy decisions. They've really don't happen in the first couple of years your work. Yeah. No, this is when you start hit your thirties, your mid stories that kind of thing another direct reason why you might quit. Your job is lack of opportunities where you're currently working. Which is kinda why left my last job. There were no personality conflicts. There was no quality work issues. There was a ceiling. Yeah. I wanted to get my name on the door. And they kept saying, yeah, we're gonna make it happen. We're gonna make it happen ornament can happen. And after awhile you don't want to be the person that has to keep bringing that up. It takes some of the shine off. If you have to say, hey, you said you were going to do this happened. And I need to force your hand. So I thought we've been talking about it off and on it's been mentioned for like five years and nothing's handle important to they would have made it happen. Evan ultimately that was the thing that ended up making that decision for me as I get Michael. Who's like I want you here come on. And I'm going to do all this to get you to come here. Because that's how important it is. That for me that you're here. And I went it's the one thing missing other than that. Malaysia was great Libya. Yeah. But lack of opportunities is a big deal, and it doesn't have to necessarily be getting your name on the door. It could just be if you feel like you've been doing the same job for longtime. And that's because you know, like, we talked about in the previous episode architecture real world that everybody kind of starts to getting silent. And maybe what they want you to do or what they want you to specialize in or not what you want. It's not what you wanna do. Right. Maybe at some point. You'll come to the conclusion that that is what you need to be doing. But it might not be where you're at right then. Yeah. And I think the other thing is right. Like, the if you can really see especially I think younger maybe not younger at some point in your early career. Not in the first couple of years, you probably don't know, but a little bit after that, you depend upon where you work you'll be able to kind of see where your ceiling is right? You're going to be able to be like. Yep. I'm not this is about as high as I could ever go. Yeah. Right. Like the current. Situation. Right. This is my peak out this is it, and so you can see that. And that's not really where you want to get our, you know, you wanna go pass out or what you wanna do. Yeah. And the trick is the sooner you can spot where that ceiling is you either. Now, am I on a trajectory that will allow me to get through it to get there? Or can. I know now earlier that I won't get through it and go to move move on. Yeah. So and then another reason another direct reason is financial I have very strong opinions about taking jobs for money. I mean on one very superficial level you like I get you need to pay your bills and unity eat and need to be able to buy a car. I get all that. That's not what we're talking about. Here. We're talking about movies where you go. I make forty thousand dollars year. Not go over here. They're gonna pay me forty five big ones. Yeah. I go. That's not the reason to change the job. There might be other reasons that contribute to that being a consideration. But it should not be the reason why you change a job. Will you have added a lot of Atalanta students in my office to that come through? And they're not. I mean, they're just working for me on whether in school in their never permanent. Right. Never tend to be permanent employees when they get too near graduation. They start looking at jobs looking to jobs. I'm always trying to tell him don't take job just because it's gonna pay you the most. And I bet you know, fifty percent of the time they'll contact me or we'll keep in touch in about a year later. They're like, yeah. You're right. I didn't want. I I shouldn't have done this. I mean. Yeah, I'm getting paid. But man, I hate this job and they move on. Yeah. If the sole reason that you're going to take a job is for money. It's the wrong reason. Well, what you get paid versus what brings you fulfillment and actually hard for young people to really kinda. Yeah. Pen to paper on that even know young. Yeah. In your thirties. Even there's a balance that you need to find at some point in your life, unless making money is the thing that fulfils you chances are you would have gone possibly in a different direction with your career like, you know, another job outside of architecture where sometimes the the main reward people get as either the thrill the chase of whatever it is. They do or the compensation that comes along with doing the tasks that they're doing as a result of the what they're getting paid. Yeah. Right. That's a big part of it. I think market sector change like we have a guy in our office. We talked about him last week Nick he used to work in healthcare. Didn't like it side. It's not for me wanted to make a change because he didn't wanna work. On that anymore. And that's what they did at the place where he worked, and I think that's a total. I mean, if any reason I think that's a fantastic reason to move, right? I mean, like, I think that might be one of the best ones say if you just if you just don't like what you're right. I mean, oh I wanted. I thought I wanted to do residential and now Beautyrest instrument sucks. I don't like it's not whatever or the other. You know, I'm doing something else. Yeah. I'm doing historic preservation or hospital work or healthcare. You know, whatever retail. I thought retail it's going to be awesome. And it's well for me. Right. I mean for me, I'm not saying, no, no. I don't mean that right. Like for me like as a as my me being whoever am and not me, Andrew. But me, you the listener crack tied that that just not what I wanted is what I thought it was gonna be. Yeah. So I'm going to find something else. I think that's a good to me. That is the best probably on the list of why you can quit a job. Well, the last one I have on my list is changing it because you hate your boss or on your co workers, which is also terrible reason. And we also brought it up when I told the story with the burger guy. Yeah. Which he didn't eat a burger. So I don't he's not the Burgh I, but that's his nickname now. So the burger guy my she's were him with him was I lost respect for him. Because if you quit a job because you hate your boss or you hate, so when you work with chances are more than likely that your new place is going to have someone that you hate to you got to find a way to work around that make it work change your behavior. So maybe they'll change their behavior. There's ways that you can try to be a grownup professional and deal with it move on because there's going to be people that you have to interface with during the course, your life that you do not like and the solution can't be why just won't do it. I'm gonna go do something else. Find a way to make that work. But if you lose respect now, that's a reason. Yeah. And I think it's a different thing. You should never quit over a co worker, right? Because everywhere you go you're going to be in an office. Whether it's five people or five hundred people there's going to be somebody that you don't. Particularly like that's just part of life right off. What I said. Yeah. I know if it's your boss, it's a little bit different. I think I think if you have a large conflict on some level, whatever that is personal professional. He has bad hair. I don't know whatever it is. Right. Not he has bad here. I'm just throwing that out there. But I mean, I think that that is a reason to probably change especially with some of the interact with every day. But I think you need to put a caveat on that. Because like for instance, I've had people that I've worked with that were my boss that I didn't like, but they weren't they weren't a problem. Like if your boss is keeping you from promotions. If your if your boss is doing things to you that are damaging to your career as opposed to. He's just a jerk is mean or he's rude or he says things in a way that aren't that? Nice. That's not the same thing as someone who is a roadblock to you doing what you need to do. I mean, I guess except for I mean if somebody that's like rude and saying. Appropriate stuff. Do you all time? I kind of feel like you could probably remove yourself from that situation. Yeah. Well, you know, I I think that's a decent reason. Okay. That's fair. Because my perspective is I've never had issues. I know it exists. It should be closer to the front of my mind. That's just what I'm that's what I'm saying. Right. Like your bosses saying inappropriate things to you in. You're like I can't work here because it's toxic because he's a sexist, and my is right. Always translate that into. Well, it's probably a rate limiting step in your career. If that's the way that they're treating you right because they perceive you to be a certain way. And therefore, you're Bill to advance is probably reduced because of how they see you or based on how they treat you. Yeah. Yes. But if he's just abrasive. Well, yeah. I mean, you gotta do people's personalities. It's just depends on that's part of it where they line is. Okay. So I'm going to say we should move onto how you quit your job the actual process, the actual process. So I have a way that I do it. And I think it works out. Really, well, and I. I know that the Boise and method. Well, 'cause you and I've talked about this before and you don't necessarily agree with me one hundred percent on this. Yeah. I know. But I'm just going to say this. These are my rattled off real quick one is don't tell your colleagues that you're going to quit before you tell your employer you need to keep this to yourself. Like, if you have a confidante that's fine that your friend, but don't make it like a like office come outta here, man. And then it's not gossip be professional. Dell your employers before you tell people you should quit in person. That's a big deal. I can't imagine somebody sending an Email that I'm quitting seems ridiculous to me 'cause you're going to see the architecture communities so small you're going to see these people again. Yeah. Right. And you need to be able to look them in the eye and say, I'm leaving. And if you want to know why I'm happy to tell you. Why anger? Some people are just non-confrontational yo done how ten conference in our, but it's perceived as such I'm not disagree with you. I think you should do in person. I think it'd be a percent let's say that you are for me, and you quit via Email that is a check against your character. And the rest of in my mind for the rest of your career that you couldn't you couldn't be bothered to come in. And tell me face to face that you're leaving. But I think that's I don't know. The see you're saying bothered out. Just not sure bothered is the right word. I mean for some people like you said earlier, I mean, you friend over it's terrifying. Right. So I'm, but I'm not giving you any way I kings x on that one. No. I'm agreeing that you should do it. I think you should give at least two weeks notice. Now, that's kind of standard. I mean, I'll tell you this that every job I ever left even the burger guy came with two weeks notice. Now, they didn't always take it. Like, I'm pretty sure that they be given to ignore it two weeks notice at the table. You look I'm done. No two weeks. We didn't really work out the finer points. Even though we had a lot of time over over the silence talk. Yeah. I I had to I basically had to go talk to the senior partners. Say this is why I'm leaving. And I gave a real raises. It wasn't. It wasn't the pouty. I don't like him reason. There were other reasons was thinking I needed to move on that was the straw that broke toback. I just I couldn't tell her thick anymore. But there are other reasons why quit. And so we kind of did a little exit, and I was very gracious to her which part of the reason why she still sends me messages from time to time her. Yeah. Because I was like let's make it constructive to shoot as you want to jerk. I try not to be. So I think that's kind of important that you give two weeks notice. Now, when I left my last office think gave them six weeks, and I said, and I'll continue to answer questions for as long as you need after I'm gone because they're absolutely was a brain drain when I left. I mean, I was running a lot of jobs. There wasn't really anybody else that knew what was going on. So I didn't tell any of my the people that I was working for. I didn't tell the clients. I it's like I let them deliver that message. So part of when I gave my notice to them. I said you can determine how you wanna let the people that. I. I'm working for note. Do you wanna tell them or do you want me to tell him? Right. It wasn't. I let the cat out of the bag to the people. Like, hey know, I'm doing your house and all and I'm about to leave and I'm leaving. And then I go tell my bosses, I didn't do that. So I thought I need to do everything right Anita make myself available. I was very gracious. I loved working there. I wanted them to know it. But I also told him I felt like I'd hit a ceiling, and they weren't and they were actually mad. They're like why didn't you come to us before? I was like, well, I thought I had I had like five times over the last five years. Yeah. But I still see them all the time. I still have high pinions about all of them and we get along. Great. And it was an that's a big reason why you wanna handle your business a particular way. 'cause I sit on boards with some of them over note. You never really know when somebody from your past can actually help you out. Yeah. Right. I mean in in ways that you don't imagine ever, especially when you're young, and it's your one of your first aid jobs. How somebody? I'm back then can help you out in the future. That's the whole don't scorch the earth. Oh, yeah. Just, you know, be polite courteous, just say, even if you hate them. It's not you. It's me, Jack. I have on here that you should train your replacement. If necessary if possible if possible sometimes that depending on the job, I had it wasn't a matter of me training my replacement because they never did replace me. But it was making sure that what I knew went to people who could do something with it after I left. Yes, about transference of knowledge. Yeah. So to speak also have on my list that you need to work as hard your last two weeks. If you give two weeks notice you need to kill it for those two weeks not to show up into your time. And just kinda have that mic drop attitude the whole time, you're there because that's the time that they're paying attention to you. And that's where you're submitting how they view you as a person is taking place, are you professional. Did you do your job? How did you conduct yourself during that period of transition? It's a really important, and it really makes a difference to five years down the road. When somebody goes, hey, that guy used to work for what do you think what they're going to think about is that last two weeks the York? For them. That's the part that's going to pop in their mind. I I agree. And I think it is important. You can't say I'm gonna quit and in for two weeks. You really not doing any work because that's that's one of those that are put a big kinks X on you for sure in my book. Yeah. I think you need expressed gratitude to those people even if you leave in your like, I hate it here. You didn't always hate it. Yeah. And in exile, and regardless they gave you an opportunity gave you a job. I mean. Yeah. If it didn't work out at work out. But they took a gamble on you just as much as you did on them now for some period of time. Yeah. It was mutually beneficial. And then I think that you should. And it's a terrible thing about to say, given the fact that I'm talking about it. Keep the personal details to yourself forever. Even if something really bad had happened in my last job don't ever go talking. I don't talk about. Yeah. It's not that was different. Nobody knows where that was. Yeah. All right. That's what that was important to me. But I actually did have a really good experience. Last place. So I worked, but I wasn't always happy. But I don't tell those tales again that goes back to earlier sort of the gossip thing just don't do it be professional and say, we parted ways in if you if you weren't happy you could say that I wasn't happy. But not I wasn't happy because of this and this and this and they do that. And this is, you know, don't do that. Yeah. Don't SO unprofessional in and of itself, right? Is is not a show on e to do. It doesn't get you anywhere. Maury Povich is coming out to talk to you Andrew about his experience working at that one fire. And then let's bring out his previous boss yet. Right. The crowd goes crazy. It doesn't work that way. Okay. So there are good and bad things associated with what happens when you quit your job. I think we've kind of touched on kind of the major like Roman numerals one through six or so of what that could be. There were a lot of good things that came out of it for me, you know, part of his when I changed jobs so often in the beginning it allowed me the opportunity to find out who I was. And what I liked what I thought I was good with. And there were some awkward transitions that took place for sure, but I met a lot of people, and I'm pretty sure they all have a pretty decent opinion on me. Now. Still hope. Now, you mean still well at well. I don't know what I'm gonna do in the future. I might go. Crazy. Look, I don't think quitting a job is a bad thing. I think that it is there's a natural evolution in our industry for people to leave where they're working to find other opportunities or so, hey in a different capacity than where they're currently at. But it's important you do it the right way. Yeah. I agree. I mean, I I don't I wouldn't say that there's any reason to never ever ever quit a job. I mean, even as an owner say now, sometimes I raises for me to quit my own stuff. But I found flick with the boss. Yeah. Yeah. That's the biggest thing sometimes the buses a jerk. Be I think that there are benefits to it as long as you do it correctly. Right. And really what it boils down to being professional about all of it on your business. Just. Does your business? Okay. So that's the end of the show, but we get a hypothetical this week. So here's the scenario for you. You're given a place to live a comfortable yearly allowance and you are not allowed to work where would you live? And what would you do with your time? I should listen to what we said last time because I don't remember. I know what you answered last time. I don't go and tell you what your answer was less than I mean, I think it was like I was going to live on the beach or in the mountains in the middle of nowhere. Now, as we live in a city, you talked we talked to you all those things, right? Because I made the argument for it kinda comes down to do you think he want to be surrounded by people Terry or do you want to be fed by the, you know, the energy of a Velarde city, and there's lots of benefits to both being isolated. I think at least for me, all my fantasies almost always involve me being out in the middle of nowhere with nobody around which all the people that know me go that would never work. You wouldn't make it. Yeah. You'd die yet. All in about three days. I mean that guy ordering stuff off Amazon just so I could talk to the delivery. Exactly. Yeah. So I I'm willing to acknowledge that that's true for me. So what I decided is that I think I would go for beach, the beach I go for beach. I'd go for a beach environment. And I think that I would work in. I can't work so your hobby. Yeah. I think I think I'd become a drunk. I'd set it. My hobby would be a drunk. It'd be drinking. Yeah. I'd be. I had drinks. That's right. I would sit at a Tiki bar on a beach, and I'd have new people to talk to all the time. And right, and they wouldn't know much stories. Yeah. You could hold on the craft of the same story over and over and I have about five hundred stories rate. Yeah. And I would be able to hurt them. All haven't you've heard like, maybe one hundred fifty. I have so many times and each one gets better. But I think that's what I do for me. You know, I thought about it for a while. And I thought, wow, you know, I like it. I don't like it to be hot. But I don't mind it hot. If I'm an obey them to with little breeze and the cold drink, and I have a drink, and I can go jump in the ocean. Yeah. That's like vacation exactly, you know. And I think that I would be okay. The one thing that I think I need other than like having purpose, which is what my job provides to me is to talk to other people. I think I wanna have a good time with people you want to interact use the time. I mean up until you don't and then get tired. It goes back to our other put my point previously about if you're not in you're not in. So you know, what how are we remember? We gotta decide I don't I don't remember what I was my, you know, because I was having a conversation with somebody else, you the damp out how I wanted to be, but that could work, but I would love to live at a beach, and like writ scooters that would be like that's job. Job. So I can't do that. I mean, I know what I would do as a hobby. I would right. Okay. Like, I would write that sounds like you need to isolate yourself somewhere. So the right kind of. But at the same time, I mean, I don't know an air ball into the question for you say, no, okay. I think for you. I love how you're giving it to me. Yeah. I'm telling you tell me my tell him. I know what you're doing a bad job at it. So. So you would be somewhere in like the Colorado Rockies someplace that wasn't cold all the time, but got cold someplace that was majestic in its beauty. Not some like generic suburb someplace that. Maybe you could look out a window. And you saw a little bit of water. And there's a lot of trees, you know. And it was beautiful and you go sit out on the porch and smoke a cigar and have a scotch or something in the evening. Sounds pretty good so far. Yeah. I mean, I think because I don't think that you need constant interaction. I think that you would actually if you had to put a percentage to it. I think that you would probably like to be by yourself or with very few people an overwhelming percentage of the time. Maybe maybe I'd say eighty eighty percent. I just want to be alone. Yeah. I've learned about that about myself. I don't like being alone. Like, it'd be about myself. I like being with two or three people though. Well, if you could tolerate my stories, it could be the two of us. Well, that's fine. Listen to muster. What if you're on the beach, and I'm going to be in the mountainous? So it doesn't really work. For you. Andrew, maybe I would maybe consider be consider. Thanks nice. But yeah, that sounds about right, actually. Yeah. I think somewhere like that where I could be a little bit of the seasons. 'cause I like that. Yeah. And yeah, save some some solitude. We could have a snowball fight. Yeah. I also saw two in the naked. Right. I know right books and novels or whatever. And then when you're when you're writing your poetry. I'm not listening. I'm telling you now this plays out. I'm not listening to your page. I would write fiction books made out of your ridiculous runs a lady from Nantucket. I turn them into actual stories. Yeah. That's what she would do. That's what I could do if if it happened, and we were in that scenario together. I could write your stories interesting, but make them better. I think he'd kill me. I think it'd be I think it'd work out. Well for kill me because I wouldn't I wouldn't talk. I would at some point. No, no, you'd be. That's what makes us relationship. Great. I'm great at talking people. I have no problem with that. I'm okay. If this is true. Yeah. That's what it works because I'm so silent. So that's okay. So yeah. So I'm in the mountains somewhere. Nice where I get some seasons, and I'm writing. Yeah. But getting your scenario on there. No, no. That's where you put. You put yourself. You agree. My scenario, you're not strangers in mind. Yeah. Well, I I don't want to strangers superficial connection. That's what you want. And you want short. I wanna have a good time with you. And then for you to go go away. So I can bring somebody else knew who doesn't know anything about. Narcissistic? I don't like we're gonna have to edit that out. Okay. No. That's true. I love there's very truthfully. I very small group of people that I consider real friends, and if it's not one of those if those people aren't part of the life. I, you know, small dosage for everybody else. Well, yeah, you got to fight through. But you could do smoke dosage. That's the difference. I don't do small doses. Very well. Yeah. Right. I'm like if you're if you're temporary a kinda don't I don't want to have. I don't have time for you. Right. Whereas you is that like their label you're a temporary here tip. Is you on the no, no animal? I mean in a sense of like like you were talking about like coming up to the bar, and they're going to be there for three hours, and you'll gladly have a conversation with him and tell them all your stories for three hours. And hey, you know, what I'll listen to their stories. We will be best friends. No, three hours in exactly into me. I it's I mean the exact opposite. I'm like if you're only going to be around for three hours. I don't even want to get into it. Like, it's no I want. Yeah. I want some haunts something with some, you know. Depth to it or whatever you wanna call her XM some stick to in this, right? If you're going to be they're going to be there. All right. I get it. So okay. Interesting dynamic that brought us together to Jackley. All right. I'm going to call that a wrap. Thank you for being with us today for episode seventeen quitting your job. We'd like to also thank pillow for helping us with today's episode. And if you can find it in your heart, please take the next thirty seconds at head on overnight teams where you can subscribe to the podcast leave us a comment and give us a five star rating. If you feel like if I tunes isn't your player of choice also available on Google play tuned in Android Spotify and a bunch of other platforms. They're all free. All you have to subscribe button on your podcast listening app of choice. Be sure to visit the original wife of an architect dot com for show notes. Links info and photos from this episode and be sure to stick around till the very end. And maybe we'll have some Altro tape for you. Enjoy. Thanks so much for tuning in. Cheers, see on the flip side. Take this job and shove. I don't wanna work here. No more Ma vocabularies live in to twenty five birds. Join us today as we smoke the people we don't like. Sook it. I mean that that's not the second town. I just trying to one. Like with that. You're trying to be like into enter. Two two. Hi, everyone. I'm Bob Borsen. And I'm Andrew Hawkins. He's new at this. I just I forgot know. Leave is a comment. And if you'll leave us a five star bring your card box.
Techstination Week February 15
"Text the nation week podcast. I'm Fred fish, Kim. Welcome to the compilation of this week's texter nation reports and more. The National Transportation Safety board this month, they shoot it's twenty nineteen twenty twenty most wanted list of Transportation Safety improvements and number one on the list for the next two years is the battle against distracted driving the use of mobile devices by drivers as an epidemic that's claiming lives by the thousands. And the NTSB chairman Robert some old says we love these things we love our personal training devices. We can't do without him there, commonplace and the distractions from these devices is commonplace. If must be addressed also on the NTSB's list of needed safety improvements speeding and to push to require carmakers to make the latest safety technology standard equipment. Using your phone to make your feet more comfortable, doctor sholls has launched an app that lets you scan your feet to create three D custom inserts for your shoes can design them yourself to previously you'd have to visit a kiosk for something. Like this innovation marketing senior manager as long you can get custom three d insert mill to you within fourteen days all your living room by downloading the doctor showed the app and taking four pictures of your feet top inside few. We measure about two hundred points to give you a custom arts, and he'll support you will notice the difference price ninety nine dollars with a thirty day money back guarantee gore Mia is adding more smarts to the company's lineup of small kitchen appliances. And gadgets were Mia has had a connected coffeemaker and grinder on the market and the SUV. Digital cooker. And there's more to come including a new connected multicolored beyond that marketing head David Rosenfeld says two were in the process of relaunching our app to make it even more user friendly to add functionality that that has not been in our app in the past. Really our goal is not only to make it easy to use our products to make it easy to have a wonderful kitchen experience. So in our app, we have recipes and more the single app will work with the full line of connected kitchen appliances, the app update is designed to better connect as well with voice control devices from Amazon and Google with streaming devices game consoles, and perhaps satellite and cable boxes and the different options for sound. Chances. Are that coffee table is littered with remotes a company called Covault see abo aims to change that it's created a box that takes all those inputs up to four of them and creates a whole new way to watch and search for content with. Single remote. That includes voice control setup was pretty simple, and the experience has been impressive Calvo's founder, Andrew, I noted we see this explosion amazing content explosion apps. Great game. Consoles? Great streaming devices. All connected to these beautiful screens and our houses, and we wanted make it really easy to access all of that. There's a slight learning curve when it comes to the Covault remote. But it's worth the effort the price under a hundred dollars fine. More at Kabul dot com. A company called Katana safety aims to turn your phone into a personal safety device. Catanha attached to the back of your smartphone. Using three Emmett he civ one set up. It offers fast and easy ways to get help in the event of an emergency dedicated call centre or through friends chief technology officer, Chris Joan weird have the ability to track your location because we're tied in with your phone. I'm using this GPS coordinates we can contact not the nine one one service for your house where you are physically. You can also choose to set off a piercing alarm the price ninety nine dollars at ca Thomas safety dot com. You can have an alerted chosen group of friends and family access to the call center costs fifteen dollars a month or one hundred forty four dollars a year. Those are reports for this week. You can find a full archive of reports on complete interviews at texted nation dot com. Thanks for listening. Now, this how many companies out there have continued to innovate when it comes to building. A better radio. I'm Fred fiscal host of textile nation, and I'm here to tell you about the new C sky wave SP radio from the wonderful people at sea crane baba is crew really love radio, and it shows in this new compact model that is packed with features beyond great AM FM reception. Unsound you can tune into shortwave signals from around the world. Listen to ham radio operators aviation and more. It's the radio you'll turn to every day. And in emergencies, it will run for nearly three days on just to double A, batteries hair. The sleep timer with a new soft speaker three and you've got the perfect radio for your nightstand. Of course, it can wake you up to click on C crane texted nation dot com and put in the code text nation for free flashlight with your order. They love radio and you'll love secretly.
IPPS 2021 Final Rule Summary [PODCAST]
"Welcome. To the hospital finance podcast, you're go to source for information and insights that can help you stay ahead of the challenges impacting healthcare finance, and now the host of the hospital finance podcast Michael Pass. Naughty. I this is my best day and welcome back to the award-winning hospital finance podcast. As we do every year bessler releases a summary of the final rule and to give us some highlights of this year's rule. I'm joined by Jimmy Mendez, who is a senior manager on our reimbursement services team here at Basler Jimmy Welcome back to the show. Here. Jimmy the release of the PS final rule for twenty twenty one was delayed several weeks due to covert nineteen this year. What were some of the most anticipated pieces of information? Well as usual, some of the key areas are the mass market basket rate, increase the uncompensated care figures, and of course, a wage index related information. Now you bad. So let's walk through those what happened to the market basket rate. The market basket rate increase will be two point four percent for fiscal year two, thousand, twenty, one. This will be the updated providers that submit quality data and our meaningful E. H. R. Users. This figure is reduced by point six percent it quality data is not submitted and reduced an additional one point eight percent if the provider is not a meaningful E. H. R. User. Jimmy what did the figures for? CARE look like. The bow to be distributed in uncompensated care for F.. Y. Twenty twenty one is eight, point, two nine. This is just slightly down from the eight point, three, five, billion distributed in F-, wide, twenty twenty. However, the proposed at twenty twenty, one amount had been seven, point, eight, one, seven, billion. Factor. To the calculation is the uninsured estimate provided by CMS, his office of the actuary that estimate was sixty seven point eighty, six percent in the proposed final, but it was adjusted to seventy seventy, two, point eighty, six percent in the final rule, the updated figured takes into consideration the effects of covid nineteen, and of course, this contributed to the amount in the final rule being eight, point, two, nine billion and that being higher than what was proposed initially. For factor three B uncompensated care calculation cms will use line thirty from the two thousand seventeen cost report as two thousand seventeen is the most recently available single year with audited S. ten data. For future years, CMS will. To use the most recent available single year audited as and that. Were there any interesting developments for wage index? Well. There was some movement in the designations of numerous counties. There are thirty four counties designated as urban that will now be rural forty seven counties that were previously rural that will now be urban and nineteen counties will move to another CBS say or to a new or modified CBS eight. But one was keep in mind that there is a five percent cap on any decrease in a hospitals wage index from the hospitals final wage index in fiscal year twenty twenty. In addition approximately two, hundred, eighty, five hospitals will benefit from the rural floor rule being applied. These are urban area hospitals of the State whose wage index is below the area wage into applicable to hospitals located in rural areas of that state. Wage, index will be set at the rural area level. So, when you think about the whole roll Jimmy, what are some areas of concern? Well an important one relates to Medicare. Bad debts. Forty to see a far or one three, eighty nine discloses the requirements for Medicare bad debt as does the provider Reimbursement manual or PRM chapter three the Pr Am is more detail and is what hospitals are accustomed to comply with based on its application by the respective. Max The purpose of the final rule appears to code by the PRN chapter three requirements, most of which will apply retroactively. There are a couple of requirements that I wished to essentially. One pertains to the process of determining that a non dual eligible beneficiary is indigent and thus exempt from the reasonable collection effort requirements. The rule stipulates the provider must not use a beneficiaries declaration of their inability to pay their medical bills or deductibles incur insurance as sole proof indigenes for medical kits. The provider must take into account the analysis, the both of beneficiary facets, only those convertible to cash, and then necessary for the beneficiaries daily living and income. and must determine that no source of the beneficiary would be legally responsible for the beneficiaries medical bill such as the legal. Guardian or State Medicaid Program. Another pertains to how bad debts reported on the financial statements for cost reporting periods beginning on or after October first twenty twenty Medicare, at the that's. Not Be written off to contractual allowance account, but must be charged to an uncollectible receivables account the results in a reduction in revenue. Were there. Any other issues that caught tension? Well. Mike There are twelve new MSTAR jeez including MS DART eighteen kyw merrick Antigen Receptor T. cell immunotherapy. which has the biggest the RG weight of thirty seven point thirty, three surpassing the DR weight of Ms. A zero one heart transplant. Two of the new embassy are Jeez. Five Twenty One and five, twenty, two relate to hip replacement and are subject to the post acute transfer policy. Other items of note, include the back that stem cell acquisition costs will be reimbursed on a reasonable cost basis effective precaut- reporting periods beginning on or after ten, one, hundred, twenty. Hospitals are not required to be Medicare certified transplant centers like solid organ transplant centers are required to be the determination of Medicare share of the stem cell acquisition costs will be somewhat different than that. Employ solid organs that the mechanics of how it will work or not entirely clear yet. Also a new requirement relates to market based Ms. The RG data collection and change in methodology for calculating the relative rates. Hospitals will be required to report on their Medicare caution for the median pair specific negotiated. At the hospital has the dossier with all of its Medicare advantage organization pairs by DAS BY MS. For cost reporting periods ending on or after January. First Twenty, twenty one. And you previously mentioned that Covid nineteen had an impact on factor two of the uncompensated care calculation. Were there any other areas of the final rule that stood out? As being impacted by covid nineteen. Will Mike, it is probable that it impacted the new technology add on payments as it pertains to qualify infectious disease products that qualified under an alternative pathway. It seems some antimicrobial drugs will receive conditional approval for pavement even if the product has not yet beget, then granted if the marketing authorisation. Thanks Jimmy that was a great summer summary of some of the key highlights. To read other highlights in the rest of our report, you can go to bessler DOT COM forward slash I. Twenty twenty one tax, the entire report Jimmy thanks for coming back to the PODCAST and talking to us about this year's. Final rule. This concludes today's episode of the hospital, Finance podcast for show notes and additional resources to help you protect and enhance revenue at your hospital visit. bessler. Dot Com forward slash podcasts. The hospital finance podcast is a production of bessler smart about revenue to nations about results.
Episode 19 with Brian Hagan
"The. The transition from school for higher education into the workplace is daunting everybody. But when you have a learning disability at brings an added layer of challenges and obstacles that we have to navigate from the decision to the scofflaws at disability in the whip place to the types of assisted technology. We may need to help us do the job or the south doubt. And worry we may have about our ability to do that job and to make sure we fit into the workforce. At just some of the issues that we have to deal with today has been over twenty years as a senior manager in human resource management consultancy in both the public and private sectors in London, Bryan. You've had a long history in Hijaz that led you to work and advocate with those dyslexia, including writing a check day in the by the late. Great, sylvia. Meaty dislikes in the workplace. So how did you end up working in this space? Actually in a sense flu nut surely from what we're gonna jar of. I was also doing some port time work with you to transitioning webbing doing a tour twenty years Annette started working day week for mental health charity, mind and wall, seven organ at mind, all met a young man who's volunteering their who was dyslexic and dyspraxia. He had a full time job with the mainstream in lawyer. I. And. Very friendly easy going. I going after about six months, I this that he wasn't his usual self breast the irritable and things like that. So we have done in jetted turned that he's being discriminated against badly as workplace because of his dyslexia. That point. I think we're talking bonds. Twenty something years ago atop point in my life. I. Very little about dyslexia broke away misguided responding thinking just about literacy. Really I felt that I could help in Moore three milder standing of employees law and disability Discrimination Act was around that time, which is not being superseded in the UK by the quality's act protecting people with disabilities in the workplace. So only to go his case, obviously, boom basis and held Representative years meetings. Fortunately, he was in a trade union and figuring into this country will provide support including legal supportive, they feel it's merit right away to employment tribunals. So we met with his trade union number occasions. I home the trade union articulate some elements of his case. Win. The case went to the employment tribunal. The tribunal ordered an independent expert to Calment on whether a role the employer had made reasonable adjustments reasonable adjustments being under the DA ending quality act. Steps to mitigate the difficulties caused bully disability in workless and the week claim that they hadn't they claim that they had. So the tribunal asks independent expert will they had done and do an independent reports the Gord as it turned that independent expert was a celebrity. Wti Ali just totally serendipity. I went with the coding was helping fronts assist. First name. I went with two. Meet Sylvia as much as saying help them more too late. And also because he was really twin be women the coin unhinged quite afraid to see this monstrous, independent expert, Dr Moodie sort of thing and it all scared quite a bit. I fund since that release formal meetings that many dyslexic people will have to have with great experts in the sky, heavy very scary situations. So I went with Francis. And documentary was kindness empathy itself as well as a professional objective did a rigorous diagnostic assessment on with the reasonable adjustments. But nevertheless. Plus both completely apparatus Jim explained the Judy to the courts to report independently old hadn't hadn't been done rubble the favor the employer or if aver us anyway looks too short community didn't report which showed that the employer had not even the gun to meet their statutory Judy to make reasonable adjustments. Not report went to me and Francis trade union, and the courtroom course and basis that we then negotiated within player. He didn't multiple reinstated boom to accord in these stances, but because of the horrible way discriminatory may the employer had dealt with Francis. He didn't want go back to the place like that. So we negotiated. They substantial monetary compensation for discrimination imploded. What's the case was over? There was no longer any issue of conflict of interests of the bloom. All I had a telephone coal from Dr moody in which she said, I really think that you advocated wonderfully for this young man jury, I couldn't talk to a whilst the case was lying. But neither icon. She said you have you ever thought of working in this field unless will not really HR person by trade by training? Let's have lunch and have lunch, and she talked to me and she said if you did the following qualifications. Of a certificate on a little. Then you bit quick to bring all the skills. You hide me. But obviously was considerably more understanding knowledge of dyslexia to bear. And she said there are also opportunities where someone with your skill said it hell individual dyslexic people. I thought let's great. I enjoyed meeting dividend. Join the work enjoyed the Z. It seemed natural progression. Forty forty one twenty years in injure, even though I do it. I didn't vote Italy twenty years Certa male menopause career change type of thing. Dots may come into the bag. Buyout. And either that twenties before you mitt Doke comedian had that client that you advocate -able. You'd never knew that dyslexia. Nine. In the way, that you know, a lay person might Noah bugs. Dyspraxia over whatever I knew very little I had misapprehensions. I had heard about it as word blindness at heard about it as I actually had tod woman plea. He was dyslexic a few years before. But our understanding the polling was dyslexia was a courtesy of Bruce, spelling. We knew real understanding bud issues around sequencing structure in a new idea poll about the emotional sucre, CES. Ince's of growing up with dyslexia and stickers. They're putting the dyslexic person's way and the emotional psychological full from that as well. So I very very limited understanding Otis Xia until documented. Wow, Senate was like twenty of Linus in a way until you met here in the case. Really? Sorry. No religious. But I use the word on a pitcher name. Yeah. Especially being in the hey, tiring street. Yeah. Absolutely. And so the last twenty since you met Sylvia renew been working in the space. He sang a lot of changes all because you hadn't nine about it before. And then you learn to bat it. Hard to gauge if there's been changes because you didn't know about nine all about it. I do. Genome Nolan's new. Changes. I mean, I think. Legislation has been the biggest change. The disability Discrimination Act in the UK followed boy pulling together different strums in the quarterback to those ten. I would say of being the biggest change in the last twenty years, not 'cause only believe that solutions are necessarily only possible through logistician I have to say that. But because legislation can often act as a primary consents a soup. Joel Coen text, the least change so just by way, of example bullied making a failure to make reasonable adjustments. Statutory fences. You were by putting the Gatien Olim players to make reasonable adjustments for people who are classified as disabled under UK, all and most dyslexic, people will be. Sets particular framework that employers have to operate within. When you then have precedent. You know, when you have a plumbing tribunal cases school to employer pizza pie channels lose precedents than binding on every employer will not every player to people is there certain exemptions. But let's say ninety percent of employed. People are the bombs ball that statute, and the precedent setting cases, which actually draw on that. So it opened the door considerably to me other people talking to employers about their dyslexic, employee's four the big new statue field occasion. You would have been relying on persuasion. When there's a statute drill began, you can depending employer, and I'll tell you what I mean by cutting employer because I think it should be, but depending on employer you had a steak as well as card ballistic certainly recommend a stick as your opening gambit as it were with an employer. But what I mean is that it may be twenty years old. I fund there are three broad categories of employer. There are those employers who are. Dyslexia. We're not just dyslexia work, but her disability aware, and who are predisposed for organizational, cultural reasons to do the right thing under when you meet them. They're meeting you someone who can help them help their employees so Unicenter Kushida door, and you can bring in move radical or wide ranging solutions than impossible the second category lose employers who are ignorant old dyslexia. But by which I mean, they they knew what I knew twenty five years ago, they spelling or something like that. They're ignorantly, but neutral, and therefore you have to auctions you have the statutory Willett should be globalization type thing, but you also have will you're missing the business case, dear you're rolling mutational risk. You're not getting best of your employees to a much wider range of persuasive powers that might go from business case for doing this reputational risk on statute. And you started the user friendly canned of that spectrum, but you have a school to move up in if necessary, and then there's a third category all employers, and I'm afraid that's the category of employers who go I'm not a charter city. I'm in this business to make profit therefore untreated, everybody insurer says old ignorant inverted coma. But I'll treat everybody said insurer, but this dyslexic person count produce as much as ten people who team or this dyslexic, employer employee can't produce were all the same quality as naming define it. Then I want to and not Maine's sacking capability than that's what I'm good. Kyrie acceptable, end and all Asians actually had to weed the statutory ornament with them. And we've forward big time. I don't mind admitting that because it comes down to a client every time that I've gone into a workplace to Togo reasonable adjustments. Even though the employer is paying me. I see the ability dyslexic employees as my clients, but the employer of the employers backward in trying to return in the pas a minority have to say, but so from that category. Three trying to pressure me into saying this never work, and you just not do reports Davis versus Joel. So what has your pain? Two or three aspects to Wallis being doing workplace needs assess moods. And that's where you look at the individual look at their job description, look at their diagnostic assessments and map diagnostic assessment onto the job description. Yeah. To work listening assessments in the our general they've got a little both the shelf package of it gives them a computer with with MS dragon with textile give them six hundred which strategy training, and we'll probably Rafter and really that's. Let's not saying will size fits all. Of course. Wall-sized all either number of aerials, the two principal. It was being every diagnostic assistance. If than every person's experience, in my opinion is different had tried. And Secondly, when you were lay all doubts, the environment, the culture, and this civic demands job, the Senate, wall-sized, solvents securely not assertive thing. So. Much of being to be doing workplace needs assessments years lose criteria as it were. Stick side. What was it the diagnostic assessment than you look at? Rather? There are two says student any cater to assessments that that you need all of this diagnostic assessment is the assess where that says this person is dyslexic, and here's Wally basically and that ultra abide eight or nine years ago. Could only be done ball shortage psychologists might cannoli. By shorter psychologists and people like maybe were qualified teachers of dyslexia and go put gradual -cation diagnostic assessment. So that we can use the segment tests. So that is saying you are dyslexic and here or you were hearing your pattern of France and weaknesses like compared to a standard measure. You have forty three percent will be working memory all a dyslexic person. Excellent oil because when colleges student they all. Forget. Persons reading about themselves when they read about this report and saying things like three hundred deviations below the norm. Very kind say as it were. Becker towards tried to look at the holding Listrik Lii and look at the person's pattern all strengths unless strong areas. So all schools colleges will give a dyslexic Burson pages and pages of economic testing results. And you think it would occur to them that they may also have difficulties like calculator over numerous difficulties even reading these reports. Don't think I've read a person yet into the reports that I can negree democra- diploma. So. So that's the diagnostic assessment workless is going into the workplace reading the diagnostic assessments Lee, hold understanding of the pattern of. And then overlain on a job description persons occasion on that's where my HR comes in. Because. NHRA did extensive training in Jolo analysis job relation here. You're looking knowledge skills and experience requirements fold the job sometimes summarizes competencies required for the job. And you're saying, okay. We'll solemn has a Kerr short-term on working memory. For example. There are certain tasks like sitting in a box and giving information everybody Rosetta books through sixty two duration them in industry seconds going to be a good fit even with reasonable just Merck's. So it's needed. Joel look in the diagnosed existed and making recommendations for reasonable just to mitigate the dyslexia in the performance of the job, dude. Dude reports presenting report, I encouraged usually, but not all tained the employer you'd have Delima jer. But also someone from HR and the individual dyslexic person myself, and the group that should be fudging managing the reasonable just leads into place. And is important how the personal pun was will. Line managers are driven by considerations all performance and put, you know, they're in a management buy Jek deserve performance management culture than really limited paying lip service to go. I know he or she is dyslexic, this nickname, just months, but when they see a just versus up be released for three hours a week or a weeks to have their strategy training. They can both backs. A counted. Independent consultancy. No, you will do this. So I get the HR person bowl signed before a meeting like that under the char- person would have the ability to say, we'll get that's all we don't do that. We're bringing will. That's many bring legislation eating. So that's we doing your advocacy web for the employees, and you can bring that Boyer. So they're not breaking the law. Yes, you can do that way. Or if you understanding HR person an HR is powerful position within an organization. Sometimes it is sometimes it isn't but often HR will have an executive rule. So line managers are to make the HR decisions to the HR person. They're on they're saying, yes or addressing the ears important ally. Monitor the person's noted when yes, yes, of course, then you know, you. The recalcitrant line manager into a corner. So here she would be acting against the three in Beijing. If they. Release. Suasion? I guess. Yeah. And so what type of reasonable adjustments occur? You said some strategy training in a stray. We don't have any of what you described right now. We. Addle? And it's something that the foundations hoping to develop by the time. But people can't really even disclose in the workplace, you know, the Pechiney to have someone coming to the where buys into a workplace assessment would be just amazed. Amsoil what type of adjustments to people have in the K at the moment. Spate to drag engineer basic fines. What would you have boy on audio Louis discreetly described reasonable just to stay coolers, involved, Jordan persons as as? I did that just remember that there are three categories reasonable adjustment. But also to straight that if you only introduce to Oldham like a stupid with it a whole over. So in a sense, it's integrated holistic the just want to enjoy and you leave like a still a story still which relates train links still. Three. Cool one leg off the whole thing. We'll fold on you see that was the legit. Will cultural difference. No, it's just the computer with you exit. Hard. Woman's you there? Certain vowel sounds that people in Northern Ireland say quite definitively from people in England or. Yeah. The stool the legs roller would be specific dyslexia aware framing or the individual on alternate buddy, one of these three in when I list, so that's that's specific training for the individual the second one is assist of technology. And the third one is organizational change. I'll start with a loss because organizational change in its perhaps the least clear boosting its woman. Both people miss the spokesper tissues. Order train service thing was Jialing. Think about it put it into Mike practice because of my background. There's no point in drinking several and giving them picks if their managers discriminated against their colleagues, he thinking that they're lazy or passenger or careless to river. So unless you do the whole thing listing three legs, you're really doing much to all the assertive, organizational, change or culture modification is about. Inculcating awareness within the organization dyslexia is what it is not including training. So that you understand the dyslexic Burson new did solving successfully three times at a robe might get roll the fourth time because they're under stress or that been working to LARs without a break or whatever understanding things like what you judge comfortable communities of dyslexic people. So we're talking about dyslexia awareness. We're talking about that awareness leading into the individual manager and HR to understand hard Serb systems procedures Whiteley dyslexia own friendly. So for example, the number of Tassie monitors go, really, you know, how big a military myself for longtime. I'm sure before I did my training. I did it too. Your hurry. You're under stress you're seeing your own boss. This is an old as exit measure in in fifty minutes, and you need some information. So you run up to dyslexic, and you will not. Not not not not not not I needed ten minutes. Lexi, I didn't build the first two things that you said you're sort of manager or even if you're a nice manager, they will or they're new they haven't had appropriate duck shin or the told the performances a bit dodgy than they're not gonna hold on. Could you saw please tell me that again or could you put it in writing the number of dealers, he refrained to do therefore they think all did he say, so maybe they'll go to the tenants instructions on a vague notion. Leila eight when they try to do it. They give it to the person, of course, six of the ten Rome on the managers. Look, let's thing night. Us. Earth is going on. Obviously you count the digging with lattes as advocate community on a an instance, by instance, basis or a case by case basis, you've got the inculcates sort of a wariness that appreciates are things that you may have been do as a manager for years and years and years, and it's you know, in your pattern of behavior get this this this list of very nicely. Thank you. So people like, you know, like to. This is called his bragging. Ca quick you to do that these police procedural TV, and they're bringing more and more high proof all senior officers in sometimes they're women. Sometimes they're still a traditional men the sign of the really good new chief inspectors setting the world of the clutter is that. Within thirty seconds. The briefs are roomful place officers on a hundred things to do. I think for man, that's what man may do. I think trying to bring more women into hyper coalitions in these crime drummers, they shoot them to be at least as Michigan's man instructing dozens of people with multiple streams of activity racial times. I blow the police officers in these drums are dyslexic 'cause you know, Erin. Absolutely. So the first thing in the still win is to inculcate awareness within the organization exit is to inculcate awareness problems that will threw up, but to do so at a level that labels too. Review and motor for receivers the cells that strategic level role than actually rely on me or another up to coming in and going you shouldn't do that only shouldn't do that. They hopefully at the end of a wear to stranding to be able to review these things and get it right themselves. And also give permission to the dyslexia person to say when you give me instructions in that way. It blew my mind. I will be able to do it could you instead give me instructions in writing off in before you will to meet me if possible will be times. But could you could practice do this way? So that jumps to lookout them make any notes to understand that that will be difficult bubbled up we made and then you can go. What about number one? What about number two, and I'll be prepared Rolin trying to write done things and not getting the whole story. I it's. It's the second leg of the stool is strategy trading. Look Sunday, turning but civic dyslexia skills training may include strategy training. I I guess that's in two parts one is specific skills. So I would help people with memory skills. But we would put it within the cortex all dyslexia. And you know, we would explain things like. Differently working memory short term rate, a long term memory at hug can you ensure that it he were redouble studied a document that you read it times who were actually sitting in this all sorts of stuff, including in some book. Sylvia's about. Skimming highlighting things like that. Some people need to find out whether they're better listening and watching on screen detects posing your variety ways. Captured permission from written or IT text and being wear the need to consolidate that information in long term memory, otherwise it will be gold sort of. I'll be a specific skill that you today JR. Structuring reports would be another warm. Borrell Rizzoli permission chapter all different types of business report, and they're essentially have blitz but with the law Lewer flavor insight into them and onwards, people asking say shoe made the shorts for they were asked to do talk to me about the difficulties. They had with these reports and then use approaches to writing the address their dictator difficulty. So those are examples to specific skills. Assistive technology. There are three or four main types. In addition to what we have accomplished you as. Text text to speech. A digital digital record meeting. So that you can index may tame, and you talk to rely on making long notes, which you'll be able to keep up with and which will divert your attention from actually listening to what's really happening. So dot sorta Dignam just trying to. Mind genius. You might not, sir. Turning lots of stuff into visuals. Not all these things were dyslexic beatable, but what you can do your word is. Secondly, the all useful in the jobs that people are doing. So to matter of making the person's familiar were with the basic most important pieces assist. The technology rolling through them with the person. They're up locations. Then getting look the websites for designed I needed trial, the technology, and then say it together, you can get fit on the applicability. But as a kid full were the work that they're doing. So that would be third leg stool intently. The government pays for. Quite a bit bowls. So the government typically pay for were ten or of skills training governor who pay for nearly all this technology. Wow. It helps early over the years. They have reduced their. Sealy's Oldham state will pay so no they don't pay for what I believe in Sylvia believed. And Sandra would believe in what other experienced tissues would believe be the right among. But at least they pay for. Can't NGOs important for charities who make won't to help. But on budgets, typical grew reasonable just for some motor dyslexia in a moderately difficult. Job would probably be about five dollars bonds. Why the word? What London process monkey but still coming in a number of charities? I mean when our entire budget is Leila thirty politics. You might want to do it. But that would be very difficult. So the double assistance there is very poor in a row. Prompted will attention managers in that first or second type, it will be I've mentioned to you unit the enthusiastically, willing or the ignorant willing to learn. Some people as monitors or in the national health service, for example, I fully some people board when they knew that they would have this five or six others punts the government because they said I come through to other woods is not funding. Ward. Little and know that's for overtimes, nurses, on the ward. I can I spend it. Dyslexia. Hill is certainly necessary. In most cases, interesting enough. The people who were moving Susia state to say, you're the expert you doing everything you said were some big corporations because they just awash with money like oracle, for example. They just in so much money in their big campus that that you know, when I said cosmic five or six hours, there's anything. Actual context is hugely report that people will grass pay for say get on with it others go we'd like to but we can't afford it. And always will go go away. We're not charity if they can do Joe when keep the. The count. Wow. We just don't have anything like that in strata so full any height. Shop people that might be listening to this podcast or. Dislike soon in the workplace. Can you? Any tips will in the staff that might be struggling will be that might be struggling at bid will listening. For any assistive technology a lot of people during disclose sorry. They might be able to do if they can't disclose to their employer leads out companies that have listened to what you said might wanna take some steps in supporting stop that. They may suspect dyslexic, but they haven't said anything. Sure. I think before I answer that. I just I need to ask you question. What is text within the spirit or disability discrimination and employment little protection because there's nothing than it's very difficult. There is a question of disclosure were here as well. But I come to presupposing the statutory protections that are in place. So I might say someone wise things less I'm aware of Colin Tech's within which people are working. Yeah. This different laws because we've broken up into St.. It's different lows posts state. I don't know huge. I just went to OH Innis training, the other way, and so health and safety training, and I actually asked this question. How it's the learning disability. We call a disability at the foundation, but the word is trying around the wash whether it's Pam into a disallow it out all Serb. Like everywhere. It's not him. Different everybody guard. Under the human Rights Act in the joy of Australia. Can you can be taken to court, and I have nine of people that haven't been given raisin judgments and have wanting. But it's very great area in strata. You have to give reasonable within the school. But more gray within the place and this. It's not like in the UK. Okay. Or? Here. This the started. Then there is precedent slow the employment tribunals unemployment appeal trading rules, interpret individual cases, where people believed to have been discriminated against and come to finding not finding this then binding on all other employers. So is that the case between states in industry? Another words, the people you mentioned who Wilner cases played into regional just lend presumably were won't stay with that just apply within that state. Or would it apply federal level? Will the person that I know of within Victoria. So I I think it depends on way while, sir. I think if you so I find to my employer. I'm dyslexic been about it. And then I asked raise will just moments in they didn't to me than possibly could take them to court. But then because it's under the the what we call the DSM five in a strategy, which is the mental health, which is is a international days in vibe is the mental health gigging. Digging. I we feed onto the mental health dictionary mental account. You know, what I'm talking about accounting to the actual name. He did. Diana, Stein, sting, psychological menu. Say we fit under that, and it is classified as a learning disability. So I think if this month, and they didn't give me reasonable adjustments. And I could go to either it. And has to be proven knitted to mental. Disability. It's it's not as clear website. We have got around disclosure and that under the the human Rights Act, which will even Ryan Sam because that is a vigil act on two different acts that you need to be aware of depending on which state Italy. Because when allies. Age state still wanna there are Embiid of legislation. Sorry, we have different axed any way you leave. Instead. So. Yeah. I couldn't stay at stiffly. Not like the UK where it's a lot more clear. That I do have one court cases that it's be disclosed up front. And then they haven't been that have been performance managed and they've been able to clearly identify performance managed intimidated because of day dyslexia. Yeah. But even then Bernie because of the way they lawyers supported showed that it was cle-. Sorry. Yeah. You'd have to be careful very well documented. The looks. I thought about this a local solar, and it sort of sort of it's it's difficult. What would I say to players? What would I say to individuals even in this country? Surprising. I'm sure every country. People are often reluctant to disclose. I did a talk at the Suez. The raise study said that'd be mercy colleagues Linden some years ago at all for people of the master students should just finish on the role dyslexic, but fifty abide, you know. Starting in developing your career as a dyslexic graduate was sugar. They moved the talk and. And I explained the pros and the cones fall disclosure and the end of last in question answer session, fifty percents grew said, that's wonderful really help Louis were thank you. And the other fifty said your idiot, your fool, if we disclose we won't even get an interview. So everything you says notes were still disclosing the group. Egypt mature dyslexic adults were split right down the middle. I'm not split down the middle people in the UK the issue disclose because if you don't there are so many things that can happen in Flament like making the mistakes reasonable adjustments that are likely to happen like being inducted, but not being able to get information in and they'll be able to say that making mistakes having misunderstandings, ensue one. So in the of knowing that it's dyslexia, I'm making reasonable just just limbs managers will judge that you're either in Copenhagen they or stupid or all three if I as a manager of I think way back when I began explain something someone walks. I said have you know, they went away and messed it up. Hope I would've being. Patient to. Okay, Kato worry. We'll do it. Again. Not sure how many times I could have done that without taking something wrong here. I've seen that many times. And I know it shoot fli that it happens. A look there's a section in Mali zero order about the importance of induction. And that really is it in the even will meaning managers in the up soups of context loader sounding as the last patron of errors that are avoidable the dyslexic with reasonably ones, the manageable could blood this laziness or lack of attention what you do. And that's why so many people end up doing the road of capability summaries who stupidest call disciplinary matters you distinguish between capability you haven't got the copayments for discipline. You is called. So IBM cases were there saying failure hunted or time for example is misconduct, which is normal. So. Newer majeur. I believe disclosure is born ever. If you disclose you can ask a reasonable just once. Poor selection process. Increasingly these days people have a one day assessment centers. They have inbox the intrigue exercises all sorts of things were credible. Sparks and you can ask for reasonable just Lear not disadvantaged. But if you don't disclose you've come reasonable. Insulin's? Sometimes you're dating past the starting. More different difficult perhaps in a stray willia- woman. You haven't got lose statutory safeguards too. I do the organizational culture industry. Not sure if what the percentage is big United Center good organizations. Neutral organizations of bad, and I do believe that it's thirty covering in the way. I'm not sure what that information might be industry, and therefore that statute Chen, if you're not disclosing and fifty percent are abor businesses of you can do if you get up it might be will prevalent near therefore disclosing is to main that you don't even get an interview short. So a little bit reluctant to to. Distributive because I'm not prescriptive, but I'm little bit reluctant to say that the vice that I have for dyslexic here plying for jobs necessarily transfers over St. with me understanding worth nation about it counts. That I jumped into I said that they always say what your weaknesses which is ridiculous because everyone lies, and I I went lie all cited that I need to support with my rushing to sit. I do need that extra support with my writing and just left it at that. And so when they offered me the job, very juicy pay, and I said to them this is not the pace scale that was originally often and this because you said you needed help with you arriving win giving you the pay because we wanna see what type of support you really need. And I nearly didn't take the job. So I thought it'd be only union that I was dyslexic, they actually discrimination. And then afterwards onto the job ended up. I didn't need that much support. And they ended up giving me, hey, and just not disclose to my manager. And she turned around sit on you those something wrong with you. And this was in the mini as Asian. And that was something wrong with you. So mean, I feel. Diagnosed assessments from other countries and students chiller other countries that you might think of like Italy from bowl. Italy. The Douglas assessment was more like an assessment or schizophrenia. Eight Kyra tryst doing a report and picking up some of the consequences all growing up dyslexic and emotional stuff that Sylvia rice, abide in her book as evidence for underlying psychosis while schizophrenia dreadful pages and pages all psychiatric tests that were being done sort of thing. So so I guess back to the cultural context, it's really worrying to me the in Australia. It's still being considered within a mental health context because you know, Sylvia, most other tissues, we said, it's not mental health Apollo. There may be some secondary or tear Sherie emotional consequences over what this Lexi is which is. Instantly a cruising speed executive vocation and phonology. Those those are are doing things practical skills, any emotional cultural courses flow from other people's reaction to things the dyslexic has not yet been trained to do properly. In my day for the. Yeah, I guess because it's classified as a learning disability which comes out of the day as invive, and I knew psychologists assess at the moment, I might supervise a speech she and she says she's consists, but generally signing near Sykes all clinical Ed site. So the sys- for funding so like university by wanna get I get funding. I get support at union on the diploid gets on doing, but I get assistance doctorate when I was doing my masters after I go to states and diagnosed so like, I get more time if I had to do an essay or by didn't exam got extended time, and I get access to assistive technology through university now, and I'll get some extra support with my doctrine as well. So, but you need that clinical clinical educational neuropsychologist report to exit. That assistance and actual funding at the moment better. If you're high school, you need that report to get some type of assistance in the classroom, even though it's minimal. I think he can get a little bit assistance. So bet again psychologist it's within the days of five seats whine psychologist would assess you is wide still in that. Go Szekler difficulties in the UK, not learning difficulties specifically difficult to distinguish it from mainstream learning difficulties in the DSM go. Seniors. Isn't within all the is him. Learning gender. Things. Grossing the and short term working memory and to complete those in to learning difficulties. Or mental health problems. Is referred me. Roll. She'll be in. Guys to be dyslexic be. The cultural. Shit roller is so. I the. I dumb. Many many many were listening. I. Chilly as many many many that. I. As well. I I also believe. We are simply many many many years thinking about what was Lexi. Statutes rate, and we practice interventions assistant. So if I were. You you should relational were individual people. This isn't the UK is best letter saying we even ready already invented many, many, many weaves diva these issues, and it makes you mitigate Gress over anymore to be in so doing you should try collect use or you others. She tried to like all winds. Comes off of those imploded appeal cases crate say there is a need for changing laws is what they're doing in the genome limit. How those? Salvin ruse and Molly worklessness assessments and say this assessment. In this country. And then Joel let up there or the individual who will to fly he later, they do that research themselves or you another disseminate. They've been a. For their interviews for the Mormons that says by delay need the following agree. HR the, you know, the other side of that argument to the other if all had red EA teaches the same my PC were she'll is just in the workplace. They would be the same level of Noli understand want. Again, knew nothing will leg in the sewer dyslexic person being afraid to say. Mid bull personally will shake people the in the desk everywhere. What's he doing that? Why we're paying that? Say and take my river. People are usually informed and people are powered to do these explored. Syllable in Waller to websites Bedia web citing you to turn. They are doing that. I'm lexie nigger you into a positive. I always did I in careers people. It's no, dear I count through this. It's because of Rex. Yeah. I take hard word I worked harder to get by a PHD or whatever lay still said. And that the only sharing -ly. I. Technology. You know what I can text. Mine except all these skills my productivity in text Zulu thirty percent greater than the average known this person. All I saw it. There were here on I think that roller than cast advice to individuals. Oh, your three things. I any more. So. The ground pool together all the little really. And then. So that penetrate HR alleged magazines, h as I used to write article for HR magazine's picks for busy in a row, try and call area, Joel we're gonna lose CFP, Jordan shoe person. And you're getting more than fifty sixty. We're gonna see it. And I always used to tease you. You'll say it says if you will talk to hear my contact details to me Servizi. So I think that's it capture. The good practice disseminate. It wasn't the same time. Someone does need to be doing. So. Applaud the law a tell people with dyslexia that they've got mental health book to me is awfully. Kohl sort of thing. And I know that's the status quo the moment. But it's based on the phone demento misunderstanding. The sexiest. Yeah. While thank you so much Brian for coming on the show today is anything else you'd like to add before we wrap it up. 'cause I know we're gonna do a couple of move have a couple more conversations around. Hey, CHA and dislike saving as you mentioned their boss differences between Strayer in the UK. And we've got what saloon from what you're doing over there. Sure. I mean woman let me emphasise. I think that's correct. Let me emphasizes insertive some sort of poops. Neil facial superiority it simply holidays, you know, what I mean. I mean, I'm a a colonial as well. Our show, you know. We've got what Selanne period the malls world. It's not just been the. In the very lucky to have be mentored, Sylvia moody, who was a listen, you bring your mold breaker, you know, Silvio for this group of head of her tolling on his written because of Sylvia, many others following on from word on Sandra's. Well, there there are lots of Brexit. Their answer the questions that you have and some of changes are necessary to make it. I just say two things. Quarter me think is that. HR managers need to be educated. I when I looked at HR syllabuses so nothing about this lex. Yeah. When I looked at psychology civilised for under post grad students college degrees. Virtually nothing about his lack the win. There was it hasn't done as a psychiatric. You believe I mean as as as someone who'd right up to the age a team with tool that I was mentally ill. Because I was gay. I knew the impact with that. Of course, being gay was removed from the DSM. Great nate. But in the nineteen ninety seven. So the moment I was psychiatric and mentally ill. Because I was on Tuesday. So really? For his CEA. Just because it's in the DSM domain. It's necessarily true. The impact that had a amendment twenties to get out of that. I think it must be as bad but worse for people with dyslexia, so campaigning political strategic level of capturing good practice, which is then disseminated for both HR the wage earners managers at individuals tomatoes, is is they medium-term solution at all the books that are run Sylvia's vote might use the report Sounders vote on a practical level because I can I can understand the people watching this might go. Yeah. That's great. That's gonna take ten years. What do I do not? There are lots of manuals arrived there. Lots of books, the breach dyslexia association website is tax with advice and links to people at a practical level, the resources already exist, including the ones that I've mentioned. Are good solutions? Well, thank you so much Brian. If you'd like to find out more about Brian and the amazing work he has done well, SUV immedi books, and the great and wonderful where that she has developed please head to the slick website. Also, if you haven't already done, so yet, make sure you sign up to our mailing list. So you can keep up to date with all the work that we're doing at the foundation hit to do dyslexic. Don't come. And don't forget if this anything you've heard today that you found distressing. You can contact the only one three hundred double choose four, six three six or lifeline searching double one voting. Thanks so much for joining us today. And until next time bye now.
Elon Musk Explains Rivian Lawsuit, Tesla Short/Long Term Goals, Succession Planning, Chair Sells Shares, Ford CEO Retires (08.04.20)
"Our here and today we were talking about the final part of Elon Musk's three part interview series with automotive. News and then other than that it's been a relatively quiet day for Tesla but we do have a couple other items as well as always I would recommend listening to the full interview in that link will be in the show notes are at all recap this kind of how the interview was structured. So first off, they talked about Musk's future tesla, and if he might take a step back operationally, here's some time soon if you remember the history of Tesla Elon Musk at some. Point had said that that was probably a likelihood for him but a few years back things definitely changed and it seemed like Ilan was all in on Tesla, an envisioned being the CEO running the company for quite a long time. He echoed that sentiment strongly in this interview saying quote I think for some number of years in the future, I will continue to run the company in a way that I think will enable us to make great products that people love and provide those products all around the world and just kind of complete the roadmap that we've laid out for many years and. Line of questioning then centered around if musk was actively succession planning for himself or what sort of looked like for Tesla, he really said that's not something that they're thinking a whole lot about right now that he's thinking about but he has no disillusionment of running tussle forever he said obviously, at some point, he'll become old and infirm as he described and somebody else at that point would obviously need to take over. But the main point here is that it's far off in the future. They also talked a little bit here about organizational structure and management retention on the Structure Yvonne pointed out that it's really important as the company grows to. Reinvent and restructure because what works on a small scale isn't necessarily going to work on a large scale. You likened it to creature as it grows it changes from cells collection of cells to growing organs, nervous system etcetera just like a company may add new parts in collections of people to the company over time. So he mentioned the retention of their top talent has been excellent but over time they have had to restructure which I think carried the implication that it might look a little bit more unstructured or unsettled from the outside, and he also importantly I think this is really important that is overlooked in these arguments get brought up is that Tesla has relentlessly recruited from from both automotive and the technological sectors you on skype is by saying quote, they want some like Tesla Pixie, dust or something and quote hoping that those employees can make their company like Tusla to that led to an interesting conversation on riven. The interviewer asked if Riviera had been poaching tussle employees and about the lawsuit tussle filed against driven for stealing trade secrets a couple of weeks back which we actually uncover on the podcast yet on if that poaching was happening on, Said said, yeah, absolutely of course, and when asked to what extent he said quote I mean it's not like a massive percentage but they definitely have. Taken a bunch of Tesla intellectual property on thumb drives and on computers and stuff. It's not cool dealer Ip and for people to violate their confidentiality agreements and non solicit agreements that kind of thing. So yeah, they were doing bad things. So we sued them unquote. So while we're on the subject, just a little bit more back on that suit Tesla is quote as Tesla now knows ravine instructed one recently departing Tesla employees about the types of Tessa confidential information that review needs both revenue and the employees knew full well, taking such information would violate the employees nondisclosure obligations to Tesla nonetheless, employees expropriated for within the exact information revient sought highly sensitive. Trade secret information that would give ravine a huge competitive advantage and quote the suit details indiscretions from four former tussle employees. The first being a staff recruiter who's manager at Tesla actually left Tesla to work for riven, and then recruited the staff manager while also explaining that ravine did not have the recruiting template structures. Formulas are documents that they would need for their recruiting efforts at which point the Stafford are still working at Tesla downloaded at least sixteen different documents from Tesla things like group interview prophecies, interview training guides, and email them to her personal g mail account as far as the other employees. One was a senior manager of staffing she downloaded. Ten confidential documents with quote detailed information on Tesla's candidate pipeline for senior level operation managers including a detailed internal right up of an executive level candidate and quote, as well as recruiting heat map showing tussles best recruiting sources. The third employee was a manager of environmental health and safety. She also downloaded and exported documents to personal g mail account Tesla says, quote, these documents consisted of highly sensitive trade secret, confidential, and proprietary engineering information about manufacturing project management control specifications for manufacturing equipment specifications, regarding manufacturing robotics, and manufacturing equipment requirements. These documents would be used rarely if at all by siren as a manager of environmental health and safety yet she exported them. Shortly after accepting her offer Iranian and quote the circumstantial implication, there would be that those documents then had been solicited since they were not directly related to this person's job and the fourth employee was a manager charging programs at Tesla left for ravine to become the senior manager for charging development and on the day before leaving Tesla to go driven this employees quote forwarded to his personal email address a list of a highly curated select group of high-level Tesla employees who are experts in the deployment and management of charging networks. Precisely, the type of team riviere needs to deploy its own charging network. The information would allow ravine to target for recruitment the. Members of that group, which is responsible for the selection deployment and management of Tesla's global super charger network and quote I, think at one point ravine seemed like a pretty good candidate to potentially eventually utilize tesla charger network but I think with the investment from Amazon and now this lawsuit especially that last employees on the charging network I would imagine the hopes for some sort of partnership on that for ribian would be pretty minimal at this point as for ribbons point of view they told CNN in a statement quote this suits allegations are baseless and run counter to ravines culture ethos and corporate policies and quote adding quote upon joining Riviere we require. To confirm that they have not and will not introduce former employers intellectual property into Arabian, systems and quote. So we'll just have to wait and see what comes of that next up in the interview was brief discussion on regulatory credits. Lawn didn't have a whole lot to say on this topic but noted the obvious at least two us the tussle would not be able to get these credits if other. Automakers just made electric vehicles that are compelling. It's sort of unfortunate that it is titled. Regulatory Credits on tussles earnings report I think to the uninitiated and in headlines that tends to imply government credits, which is not all the case. There are simply credits being paid to tesla instead of the government because of failure to with government regulations next, they talked about the autopilot naming convention and the pushback that they've. Received in Germany as of late, you on had some choice words on that including ridiculous and idiotic. We've talked plenty about that. So no need to go into too much detail there. The next question was sort of interesting. They ask him what he wanted to accomplish with Tesla by the time he was fifty, which was a bit thrown off by sense that's less than a year from now but he said quote well, I mean, hopefully, we get the I mean from Tesla's standpoint Giga Berlin and Gigi Texas operating next year that would be cool I. Don't know maybe we will be lucky enough to get the cyber truck into production towards the next year that would be cool I don't know if we will succeed or not but that's worth trying and quote I thought the phrasing on that was pretty interesting. Given the fact that Tesla exceeded their model white timelines by about six months and they seem to have adopted and under promise over achieve sort of guidance system. But you'll definitely presented twenty twenty one as sort of that aspirational target for the cyber truck even though that is what it says right now on the website for the Tri Motor variant given the fact that this'll be coming from gigafactory Austin. I'm sure most of US already had level set our expectations accordingly, but it's going to be a new factory, a new production process. So definitely wouldn't expect a model why situation where it comes six months early as in this case, that guidance does seem to be relatively align with tussles internal goals after that the interviewer rephrased that question and said, okay what about by the time you're fifty five years old. You on said quote I. Think we want to have reached volume production in all the products that have been announced and maybe if you haven't and have the company be operating very solid way that is robust that even if I were to die, the company would still do really well for a long time and quote beyond that you on did reiterate without prompt that tesla does aspire to eventually make roughly. Twenty million vehicles per year, Yulon noted that worldwide, the total automotive fleet and operation is about two billion vehicles. So tussle with aspire to turn over one percent of that each year, which will be twenty million per year. Of course that fits with yawns response to the question on TUSLA's Q. One earnings call about maintaining that fifty percent compound annual growth rate. The last couple of topics were on covid nineteen. The impact, their von said that in the US compared to how the situation was handled in. China the regulations have been just a bit more haphazard and randomly applied through different geographies just relying what Yuan set here. I know this political but he said overall, they've filtered through it and the team has done great and there have been no serious issues and then the last topic was whether or not. Anybody ever tells Alano and you said quote people tell me I am wrong all the time and quote adding that I won't directly quote this year. But if you ever want people to tell you, you're a giant pile of something just go on twitter he said that jokingly but obviously, there's some truth to that and then he said really though from a management standpoint, everyone is wrong some of the time. The first mistakes that he would like to correct are the ones that he makes manager should always take the attitude that they are there to serve their team and is not a question of if you're wrong, it's how wrong you are with the goal of becoming less wrong over time. That's something that you'll has mentioned in regards to his optimistic timelines in the past trying to get less wrong overtime last. Couple of quick things here for today Robyn Denholm the chair of the Board for Tesla a few days ago, exercised her rights for about Twenty Six thousand shares of Tessa stock, and then ended up selling those into the market. So you may see some articles about that just to clarify a couple things on that her option for these shares did expire next year. So between now and next August she would. Have had to have exercised when you exercise these stock options that's taxable event. So if you don't sell any of the shares, you have huge tax burden. So generally in a situation like this, the person doing that exercising will at least sell the number of shares to cover that tax burden. But in this case, Denholm home did sal all of them I do believe she still holds other shares and Probably. Other options but I didn't take the time to look into it because personally don't really care all that much about circumstances like this inside herself all the time for all sorts of different reasons. I don't believe it to be a good indicator of future performance, and certainly, if we look back at tussles history, it has not been but if you do want to take the time to do more digging. On her specific positions, there is more information out there. The last thing I would say on this is sales like this are predetermined. So this particular sale was scheduled back in May. Last thing we do have some more executive turnover at other automakers Ford. Today announced that their CEO Jim Hackett will be retiring and their current chief operating officer Jim. Farley will be taking the reins Farley fifty eight has been. With Ford, since two thousand seven, we'll wait and see obviously, but I would imagine this doesn't change the course too much for Ford. All right. That'll wrap it up for today as always. Thank you for listening. Don't forget to subscribe and sign up for notifications also make sure you're following me on twitter at Tessa podcast and I'll see you tomorrow for the Wednesday August fifth episode of Tesla Daily Thank you.
Nature Gardens At The Natural History Museum of LA County
"This is cultivating place conversations on natural history in the human impulse to garden from nor state public radio in northern California. I'm Jennifer jewel this week. We visit a remarkable public garden in California during California native plant week the nature gardens at the natural history. Museum of Los Angeles County are testament to just how much one garden can do where once a parking lot sat stay with us, the landscape architect and museum staff. Collaborated very deeply on the original planting a pallet for the entire garden. It was master planned and every plant that was chosen to be a part of this garden was chosen for a contribution that it would make to providing habitat. This is cultivating place. I'm Jennifer jewel in this hour fifth but not quite final. Listen for more information towards the end of this episode in our five part series on our gardens as habitat, and we gardeners as powerful land stewards and bio-diversity protectors. We visit a remarkable public garden in California. It's California native plant week the nature gardens at the natural history. Museum of Los Angeles County are testament to just how much one garden can do to turn back time and help restore habitat even in downtown LA where once a parking lot sat Barron an overheated. We're joined today by native plant expert, Carol Bornstein, director of the nature gardens and by Leila Higgins, senior manager of community science there. With hard data collected over the last seven years and huge hearts for this work. They bring us up to speed on what the nature gardens and the habitat they provide can offer to us all Carol and Leila. Join us today with the help of audio producer Joanna clay from the nature gardens. Welcome Carole and Leila. Hello. I I'd love to have you both start by restating your job title, and tell us what that actually means in your working life day today. Let's start with you, Carol. I'm the director of the nature gardens here at the museum. I also oversee the the museums live animal program. So I joke he like to tell people that I'm responsible for the living things here at the museum as opposed to all the the dead specimens that we have in in our collections. There's no typical day, really. But a fair amount of. Time will be spent out in the garden communicating with our head gardener and some of the other members of the garden team just addressing what's going on with the the plants in the in the collection itself. Interacting with many other staff with regard to how the the gardens are being used of for educational purposes carefully for some of the research work, just all sorts of different collaborations that revolve and spin off of what's happening out in the gardens. Yeah. What about you? Leila. Hi. So I'm the senior manager of community science which some people refer to as citizens science about a year ago. We changed the name not everyone is a citizen who we want to participate. I'm personally, not a citizen of the United States. And we also were approached by the community and asked to change the name. And so that that's the rationale there. But the. Definition is the same regardless of whether you call a community signs like we do or citizen science, and it's getting the general public involved in answering real research questions and are real research questions or what's going on with nature here in Los Angeles. And that's not just in the garden, but all over the LA southern California region. But now that we have the garden it's an amazing field research site for both are scientists work in research and collections. I have a degree in entomology, so insects are among jam. But I love I realized that I wasn't going to be a hard science researcher. I realized I needed to communicate science to people, and that's what gave me true joy and getting to help build this garden here at the museum. It's just so amazing coming into work and seeing kids around the pond like literally getting their feet wet following chasing a butterfly getting to see birds up-close or them crawling through the wormhole in. Dirty zone. It's it's something that gives me like tangles every day. It is a it is an incredible garden. Carol will you describe the scope of these gardens that were we are talking about an a little bit about their history that how big are they when were they I put in. Why were they put in? Well, so the guards are roughly three and a half acres, and they took the place of a couple of parking lots and some rather mundane landscaping fair amount of lawn and not not a whole lot else. And the idea came about during the process of doing some major renovation to the the museum itself earthquake retrofitting the old historic wing and some of the galleries throughout the museum. And I wasn't here at the time Leela can speak to this perhaps more detail. But the the idea was to take the museums work, it's research work, and it's. -cational programming outdoors on our own property and to use the space the outdoor space as part of our our mission based work so becoming a museum of nature and natural history. The museum staff they developed a team of of biologists and educators, and that's where Leila came in wearing both hats at the time and worked with meal and associates local landscape architecture firm to develop the concept for the gardens and to help to construct them. And the goals were were multiple. They wanted to build something that could be used as a field site for conducting research also for many educational program opportunities for nature play because so many people who live in Los Angeles. Don't have the opportunity to have some type of connection with the outdoors. They they don't get to the beach or they don't go to the mountains. Nhs their school yards may be more asphalt than anything else. And there was a very strong belief that we needed to provide some opportunities, whether it was a first touch for nature or giving people a chance to just move along that continuum and become better aware of more connected with nature that is around them and also to serve as a demonstration garden of what they might be able to do in their own space and last, but certainly not least to create habitat for wildlife in this urban setting Lindy one adds something to that. So I've been at the museum ten years. And when I first got here and heard about this project, and I was like, oh my gosh. How can I start working on that? I have a master's degree environmental education, which was paired with my entomology undergrad degree and was like this is going to be a really powerful space for many of the reasons Carol outlined, and as a person who grew up on a form in England and got to run around playing hall trees and pretending to be a badger and chasing butterflies down a country lane. I felt really really compelled to help make a space where people can have experiences like that here in Los Angeles safe natural outdoor spaces where parents could bring their kids and kind of the parents could sit down and relax and kids could get their hands dirty in compost and climb on a tree stump and chase butterflies. Maybe. Okay. Maybe they also. Oh can pretend to be badgers. But American badges note European badges? But I got to work on that literally had started in December of two thousand eight and then halfway through two thousand nine I got assigned to the nature gardens project working with the head of exhibits at the time, Karen wise and found myself as the most Judy person in the room with the president of the museum and head of our construction company listening to the pitches from all the different landscape firms that we're going to possibly wanted to work with us. And then we selected Mierlo layer at associates, and I was just like how my in this space and an in getting against the whole completion cycle and then hiring on Carol and the now having a full complement of garden staff and seeing kids and adults out in that space. It's kind of just like a magical thing, it is magical thing. And I wanna go back to Carol for just a second before we get into more of the science being. Done there, Carol as really one of the premier native plant experts in California, especially in public garden space, your whole career has been dedicated to to this kind of work will you describe for people the kind of range of plants both implant types, and maybe how many species you have. And just like, what would we mean when we say were planting for habitat, give us some tangible names and faces to that. Well, I I'll just start by saying that the the gardens are not an entirely, California native composition, there are exotic plants here. Although most of what people see when they come was part of the overall planting design, very very little of what remained prior to the groundbreaking is on the property, but there are some exotic species and those reflect part of the fabric of the. Urban landscape that exists throughout Los Angeles. And that was intentional to make it be accessible in a visual way. That people could relate to some of the plants that were already here that they do see around the city, but I'd say about two thirds are California native plants, and they range from local native species of plants that you might find along the natural reaches of the Los Angeles or the San Gabriel rivers. So right Perry in vegetation such as a Royal willow, the California sycamore oak woodland, primarily we would we have coast live oak. But we also have a few species of other native oaks on the property. Lots of Toyin, which is the official Strub official native plant of Los Angeles that absolutely thrives in this garden, several different kinds of CNN 'thus and man's anita's coffee berry and. Currents and gooseberries. So there's a quite an extensive array of Woody plants, but we also have a lot of native grasses Perennials. There's even an aquatic component. Because we have an unnatural Listrik pond that is populated entirely with California native plants and the Hollander meadow actually have to pollinator gardens one that is exclusively California natives a mosaic of grasses and annual and perennial wildflowers with a few shrubs for structure around structure, but we also have an a'mixed Hollander garden that is a more formal in presentation to appeal to people who might not like, you know, the the less tidy look that the the meadow a presents in addition to all of that there's also an edible garden that doesn't fact have some California native plants mixed in partly for their in secretary benefits. But. Also because some of our native plants definitely have an edible component to them. That's a kind of a general overview. Yeah. And there's roughly six hundred or so different species and cultivars in the garden, not including the edible plants and the annual wildflowers so for the snow barely size. There's a lot of plant diversity a lot of impact. When I was last there. I think the the Wildflower meadow mosaic area, you were referring to was just getting started. And with this great bloom year going on can you describe that a little bit for us shirt? Yes. It's in bloom. It's it's probably the most dynamic part of all of the nature gardens other than the changing annual beds in the edible garden because of the composition of the diversity of plants that are there, and the fact that it has. It has definitely evolved since we planted it. It was the the last section of the garden to be installed. The meadow originally had a lot more annual Wildflower component to it. And over time the bunch grasses have naturalized and taken up more of the real estate. So there are probably there's less of the ground plane of annuals, but there are more of some of the other plants that we landed such as the desert APR ikat and the Indian Mallow and the annual sunflower some things have just been super super happy in that location. And we have let a lot of things just evolved on their own trying to take a to some degree a bit of a hands off approach and let things find their place. But at the same time, we are we are still managing it just in that description alone where you have the, you know, really Connick. Canopy trees of the sycamore and the oaks there and all the way down to the to the native bunch grasses. There is this beautiful and wholly Representative plant communities there which would allow for a lot of year, round, observation and information collection. So I'm going to move to you Leela and have you talk a little bit about the different ways that you are incorporating both community science and hard science with all of that opportunity throughout the year. Again, we were very excited about this garden opening and even before it opened. We started surveying the space with our scientific staff. We had this group that we call the habitat team. And I was one of the lead content educators on that team. But also had. A science background. So was able to work with an across the science to education side of things, and we have been doing a lot of field research out in the space. So we have our Tamala gist out there putting up Malays trap. That's been up since the garden has opened animals trap for those of you don't know it's like almost like a tent, but for insects that fly through the environment, and they get caught on the piece of netting. That's there. And then they are tracked into flying up to try and get away they fly up woods. And then they get cold in this jar, which is filled with alcohol, and yes, they do parish. But we take killing things very seriously here. We're only doing it to to help our understanding of the planet and to hopefully, make the planet and our environment, especially here in Los Angeles better for humans and for wildlife. So we. Found hundreds and hundreds of insect species in the garden through that Malays trapping projects and our staff and volunteers sorting through those insects inside of our nature lab exhibit. So the public can come in throughout the week in the weekends and get to see volunteers and work study students from USA sorting through those insects, and we have a microscope setup. So they can see them up close and see some of these life forms that are flying around in also even their own backyards, but are something that are so small and so tiny the people don't get to see. So we've had three hundred and five species of insects observed in the nature gardens through this logical survey to split that up nine species of dragonflies, damsel flies which mostly relying on the pond because dragonflies and damsel flies lay their eggs inside of water. And so their babies live on the border of putting in that wall. A source really helps to increase the bottom versity in relation to the dragonflies. Dams of is we have fourteen species of butterflies in a found in the garden. Nineteen species of flower flies, also known as a hover flies they are pollinators forty five species of scuttle flies. So these are in the true fly group there also known as humpback flies because they have this very large hump behind their head an-and, sixteen species more than sixteen species of bees, and then thirty four species of beetles, which Beatles, my favorite order insects. So very excited to see so many of those in our age gardens, and then beyond the insects. We've had four species of reptiles amphibians found there was a turtle dumped in the pong. There was a American bullfrog dumped in the pond. So those are species that we've seen were not necessarily very excited about having them in in the space. They are again invasive species that have. Wrought havoc around the world. But then we have to species blizzards have shown up and there were not really lizards in the space before the gardens were built seventeen species of mammals, ten species of sales slugs and one hundred seven bird species are. Yeah, it's amazing are one of orange haired the museum Kimball Garrett he has lived in Los Angeles his whole life. He grew up playing in the Hollywood hills all birds around and he scored a job here at the museum and has been here over thirty years. And since the gardens opened he has been going out weekly and he's done two hundred seventy nine bird surveys. He seen twenty two thousand six hundred fifteen individual birds, which represents one hundred seven species I wanted to just add something about all these creatures. None of that wildlife was intentionally brought into the garden. There's only there's only one animal that we. Intentionally introduced in that was the Arroyo chub, which is a native fish that. We actually had to secure a permit in order to release it in the pond, and it has been so happy that the initial seating of maybe twenty five to fifty or so fish has now turned into many, hundreds if not thousands of fish, but everything else, you know, that we have been documenting has arrived on its own accord. Although as Leila did say a couple things apparently were deposited in the pond that we pre mmediately removed. Carol Bornstein is director and Leila Higgins, the senior manager of community science both at the nature gardens of the natural history. Museum of Los Angeles County in downtown LA, the three and a half acre garden was conceived and planted in what was mostly as volt parking lot. The natural history museum is LA's oldest museum building and the present day anchor of an emerging cultural educational and entertainment hub in exposition park. Natural history museum. Visitors are awed by extraordinary specimens and the stories behind them. In addition to sharing the history of the planet. The natural history museum also explores a more local transformation, the outdoor nature gardens and the nature lab. Look at how environment and people past and present interact in LA the unifying. Theme in these indoor and outdoor experiences is the interplay of nature and culture in Los Angeles and the world the gardens put living nature into the life and science of this historic natural history museum. We'll be right back after a break to hear more. Hey, I've had so many wonderful comments and notes about the impression this habitat series has made on all of you and me to how it's opened your thinking and inspired your own gardening at this time of year in particular. You'll hear more about this at the end of this episode. But I just couldn't help myself. I added one more episode to what was supposed to be a series of five. It was too hard to stop because in reality all gardens are about habitat right there have tat for us for our sanity for our wildlife, and our plants and well engaging in life, more, fully and richly on all levels. It's because of you donors out there that I was able to put my head around curing such a series and the forethought planning scheduling in communicating. This involves so thank you to each and every one of you who showed up as donors as well. As listeners we have a lot of new ideas here at cultivating place, and we need listener support to help us out. If you wanna be the gardener to our garden, please consider making a tax deductible donation by clicking on the link that says support in the upper right hand corner of any page Eckel debating place dot com, while most people give us a steaming donations of twenty dollars a month. Kenny size or one time gift goes a long way to make these important conversations possible. Thank you. Now. Back to our conversation with Carol Bornstein and Leila Higgins of the nature gardens at the natural history. Museum of Los Angeles County. This is cultivating place. I'm Jennifer jewel. Welcome back to our conversation with Carol Bornstein and Leila Higgins of the habitat intense nature gardens at the natural history. Museum of Los Angeles County in downtown LA. So that was one of my questions when when you referred to frog and the turtles being dumped, these are non native species that somebody came and just released without permission into the environment. The turtle happened during construction we did have a camera trap on the pond of time camera trapping is something else that way, we do in the garden to help to collect data and we saw some construction boots coming in the frame, and then the next day turtle was in the pond. So it was a rhetoric slider. It's on the top one hundred species list of invasive species that is on the red list way had somewhere live animal staff. Oversee the removal of total and rehoming wanna go back to all of these wonderful numbers of bugs, you were giving these three and a half acres of gardens went into a place that was basically just as fault. It was just paved over and more or less, and then these gardens come in you've been what I understood from what you said is you've been collecting this data on the insect and other life in the gardens for all of these years or a great many of them since the garden was planted. We're hearing all the time right now about how fresher are insect life is in the world. And it's decreasing numbers. We don't have data from before the garden was there. But in theory there clearly weren't, you know, damsel flies and dragonflies because there was not water. So are you seeing trends of upward and downward? Are you what are you seeing there? And what does it say to you? So the Malays trap that I was talking about is one of well, it was originally in the first ration- of this research product, which is called bio scan which stands for biodiversity science city nature just run by our Tamala staff here, and Dr Brian Brown are Tamala just he's a fly specialist, and so that Malays trip in our nature gardens was one of thirty that was all over the city of Los Angeles and through. Those traps they discovered forty three species of of these flies that are brand new to science not new Los Angeles. But brand new no scientists knew that they had existed on the planet until our researchers looked at them and identify them. Yes. So this is real science happening. And in two other flies that he looked at in that sample one had never before been found in Los Angeles. Edit only been known to exist in Europe, a third one also never before found in LA only known from the east and west coast of Africa three scientific discoveries one new species, and then to range expansions we found to date is they're working on publishing a lot of state. But so I don't want to preempt them on that. But what Carol Annan other people have been saying plant native plants plant native plants, and or climate appropriate plants, and you will increase by diversity in your space. I think for Gardner. There's maybe our greatest joy in life. E is this idea of making. Gardens that welcome all of these creatures even in a small space and being able to make that difference. Just feel so hugely helpful to me and hopeful to me, given what we are seeing worldwide in terms of declines of these creatures that we we rely on them for everything and we harm them at our own peril. So with that in mind, I wanna move back to Carol. And you know, we talk about habitat nor garden's very generally, but you can give us some really I think beautiful specifics, perhaps on ways that you have as a plant person thought about the habitat needs of these, you know, many different species and said, you know, maybe this is their larvae. Food. Maybe I'll plant this this is there, you know, this would be great nesting material for for hummingbirds. Maybe I'll plant this has there been a kind of intentional planning for the support of the different life stages of some of these creatures mean, I think the the most common when we hear about all the time. Of course is the milk Weeden and the monarch or you know, for us the pipe vine and the Aristo Kia with the pipeline swallowtail butterflies have had there been other examples like that that you can share with us wherein, you think that long term for what your plants and your final relationships are doing together while they the short answer is. Yes, that that was definitely intentional the team that of Leland. I mentioned of the landscape architect and museum staff. Collaborated very deeply on the original planting. Palette for the entire garden. It was master plan and every plant that was chosen to be a part of this garden was chosen for it. What a contribution that it would make to providing habitat also to be compatible with our Mediterranean climate here in Los Angeles, and to be to survive on fairly low water over its lifespan, not everything has worked for one reason or another because guards, of course, are grand experiments in and things don't number one live necessarily live forever. And we're constantly editing and changing trying to honor the original intentions, and when new plants are brought into the garden. They do need to pass muster with that same goal in mind to provide either a food source, whether it's through the flowers or the fruits or nesting material or shelter as far as specifics. Well, there's a plant from. Baja California Mexico. Culver Beena, Lila seena that. One of the things that people do like about that. And it has become very popular year in central and southern California is that blooms almost all year long has lovely purple flowers that happen to be fragrant adapted to our dry summer climate here. And it attracts a quite a diverse array of butterflies, so from skippers disqualify sales monarchs so that is one that is popular not only for its beauty. But also for its attractiveness to butterflies, the native sunflower, I mentioned that earlier I've been delighted by how happy it is in our garden. But also the fact that not only do native bees neck, visit the flowers when they're in bloom in late spring early summer, but as the seeds ripen, then it provides a wonderful food source for gold finches, they will just hang upside down and just feast away until they. You know, get disturbed by something and fly off and then of Chile return. So that's a plant that that that gives in multiple ways coast live oaks and oaks in general, you know, have a reputation of being fantastic habitat. Plants. There's documentation that oak trees provide some type of support to over five hundred different creatures of wildlife at some point during their life. Whether it's a food source or nesting or shelter. And so we definitely see an awful lot of activity among the many oak trees here in the garden Ciller of few very very few examples. I remember when I was there being really taken by the bat monitoring equipment that ill had down by think by the pond area. Well, I I know that we've documented I think it's five. Species now. And I think that the reason that we are seeing that kind of activity is because of the fact that all of these plants are providing some type of food source for insects in the the bats visiting to eat, the insects and Leela can probably fill in more detail about that. Yes. So the person who puts up the bat detector is Miguel Oriana he works in the community science office. He's also an urban cone of researcher an Mamool gist. So we've had a bat detector up for number of years in the garden. We have one two three four five species of bats that have been detected. We've got the big Brown bat red bat hoary bat pallid bat and Townsend big eared bat, one of the other things that the again, I keep mentioning the pond the pond is a great resource for bats, not what was people would think it's because of all insects that live in the aquatic environment. And then emerge. Urge as adults and these flying insects are then food source for bats. And you'll often see that's fine. Ovo waterways around Los Angeles at dusk. And it's a really beautiful sight to behold, and you're like, you might be eating any of the mosquitoes that a flying around right now and bats so that was one of the things like we have to have a pond, we have to have a pond, we have to have a pond known only going to add all of this diversity and habitat for these species that really rely on that quantum environment. But I've done a lot of ponding with children. And so taking kids out to the edge of the pond hitting them Annette giving them a even a simple tool like a plastic smoothen and a ice cube tray. They can then sample for the macro invertebrates in the pawn, and they get to find things like two strikers and Dragonfly. Larvae and dams affi- larvae, and we don't actually have very many mosquitoes upon which is an tastic all the Orioles job undoing their job eating eating them. Lots of other insects like may fly larvae we found some pita larvae living in the pond as well. Beyond the pawn. We also wanted to make sure that we added habitat value in addition to the plant, so we have be hotels, we put up out there. And I remember working with some of our exhibit team with some old pieces of wood Brian round or Tamala just had in his backyard, and we drilled hundreds of holes into them and put them out, and we're so excited when we saw Ie's moving in these a solitary bees, not the, you know, honeybees that live in these giant, colonial groups, so they're much less likely to Singley solitary bees, and they move in. And they lay their eggs inside of these holes and provision them with pollen sacs. And then the babies hatch out and get to eat Napolitan. There is inside there. So that's that's really fantastic things that get provisioned with spiders or actually wa-. So we have we have areas that we let go muddy and then wasps come and collect the mud from those little edges of the muddy puddles and make little Ness on the side of the building. We've also left lots of area is like bare sand because their ground nesting sand SPS in the ambiguous which have these beautiful green eyes. You know? That's not something that most gardeners may be no about, but yet if you want to have these beautiful wasps, and again, these are solitary wasps, so they're not gonna be out there trying to sting us. Humans like yellow jackets are and then added bonus for those mud Doha's. You know, if you have any phobia of spiders there they as part of their life cycle they need to vision their their their nest with those items for their babies too. In this fifth episode in our series focusing on the important role. We our gardens can play in supporting bio-diversity in this world. We're speaking with Carol Bornstein director and Leila Higgins senior manager of community. Science at the nature gardens of the natural history. Museum of Los Angeles County in downtown LA the gardens were designed and planted by Mia layer and associates a firm now known as studio M L A in two thousand thirteen in collaboration with science and education. Staff at the natural history museum specifically to re introduce native habitat, by way of water rocks. Trees other plants and soils for the native wildlife of Los Angeles to return, the resulting insect reptile, mammal and bird diversity. Making this oh Acis garden. Their home is reminder to us all of the power. We have to create habitat for all on our own patches of earth. We'll be right back after a break. Stay with us. Okay. So thinking out loud. Here you want to know what I'm loving, the very most about this conversation with Carole and Leela it's this. We're speaking so little about pollinators now that might sound like a funny thing to say, but if you've been listening to these conversations in this series, you might have picked up that my feelings are this when we talk about habitat and biodiversity loss. It's not about one subset of life animals, we humans, call pollinators. We don't need this issue reduced to a sound bite. We are fully capable of grasping both the nuance and the complexity of the damage we have done to these living systems and our capacity for helping to restore balance. And it's not about us doing this because it benefits us as humans that the loss of pollinators will severely impact our food. Ops. For instance, we care, and we can act based solely on the fact that it's the right thing to do the problem. We've created is not simple and the answer is not simple. But it starts simply with starting from where we are doing what we can to not only change our actions in decisions, but to increase our own understanding and wariness garden variety everyday actions from the ground up. It is about the monarchs in the hummingbirds and the honeybees, but as Carol and Leila demonstrate it's also about lizards, and spiders beetles and bats, it's about flies and sand wasps, we might be preconditioned to be scared of, but which are in fact gentle, and they had the most beautiful iridescent is and they have an important place in this. Well. Of life that we're one tiny part of we can do this. We you and me gardeners, we most especially can do this. Now back to our conversation with Carol Bornstein and Leila Higgins of the nature gardens at the natural history. Museum of Los Angeles County. This is cultivating place. I'm Jennifer jewel. Welcome back to our conversation with Carol Bornstein and Leila Higgins of the nature gardens at the natural history. Museum of Los Angeles County in downtown LA, you know, as home Gardner's in in you have both sort of reference the idea of the garden serving as demonstration for other people to see what they can do. And clearly not everybody's going to be able to put in a big pond or plant an enormous oak or even planned to small oak that's going to become an enormous oak. If you both of you had sort of one to three things that you would say to listeners as to what you would love to see them do in their gardens to move in this direction. What would those with those three things being let's start with you. Carol. Well, that's tough. I've thought about this a lot. I guess maybe the first thing I would suggest is to if you're using any kind of toxic chemicals in your garden to just stop doing that the statistics about the use of of herbicides pesticides in this country is a very alarming, and in my opinion. It's it's unnecessary. And we are managing this garden using organic practices, and we are not using toxic chemicals at all and we're not using synthetic fertilizers either. So I would encourage people to just abandon those practices because that is killing both beneficial as well as the occasional pests that might be visiting your garden and allow natural natural predators to help come and provide some kind of ecological balance in whatever size garden, you might have. So that I think that might be my first suggestion, certainly incorporating some Nick, California native plants into your garden, if you don't already, and if you're space is really really limited. I would concentrate on those that are as local as possible to your area. With the expectation that those would ideally be the best adapted to your site. That isn't always the case, but more likely than not they would they would hopefully be better adapted than something from tr- SU super far away as many of your listeners Nell, California's incredibly diverse state with over six thousand species of native plants and not all of those are going to grow well in your mediate area. So try to narrow your scope. Releasing chemicals using native plants, regardless of the size of your garden tried to incorporate different layers vegetation. So that you're providing habitat for as wide in array of of wildlife as possible. And by that, I mean plans that cover the ground in your kind of a blanket on the ground mid story as well as some type of canopy because different species occupy all of those different zones, and that not only adds to the visual interest of your garden. But it definitely will also nurture other forms of life to a appreciable extent. So I have to add one more, and that is some type of a water supply, even if it's just a tiny little dripping Byrd bath type of setup at that has everything needs water to some degree, and it doesn't have to be exuberant or expansive, but just a little bit. We'll go a long way to supporting life. What about you Leela? Okay. Get rid of your loans as much as you possibly can especially in southern California habitat value, basically zero I'm not saying don't have any loan. I totally see them as a great place for children and dogs to maybe play or laying down on for a picnic or taking a nap in on for all those things but as much as possible frequently drive by and you see people not using the loans for ninety nine percent of the time. So yet rid of his much loan as possibly feel it. You can outdoor cats are really destructive unloved cats. I love my friend's cats, but they kill so much wildlife. Lizards birds insects, even and I know that's really hard for some people here. But that you can have. You're happy. Indoor cat you could make an outdoor cat run. One of the women that I do a lot of work with a huge advocate football life. Here. Nelly. Susan gottlieb. She has a lovely nice big cat run outside. And so and she has hundreds and hundreds of hummingbirds visit her house, but that Cameron allows the cats to be outside the birds to be safe, and then Leslie, Carol mention the no pesticides. I'm going to get really specific one kind pesticide not dentist sides any rat poison the being put out they can be really destructive going up the food chain getting all the way even to in are amazing mountain line p twenty two he was suffering from mange had to be captured and administered medicine, and that's that's directly linked to rodenticides. And so that's something we're really trying to fight against here in Los Angeles right now. And getting that to be something that the. Adopted across the city, and hopefully Ross the county, and hopefully other cities counties will follow suit. Is there anything else you would like to add? And I wanna remind listeners that there's this amazing opportunity coming up the city nature challenge is gonna be able twenty seven th through the twenty nineth for survey shin period. Get your smartphones digital cameras out take pictures any plant or animal in any city. That's participating and that's a project that I helped to star in co-founded when someone from California academy sciences, and it's a competition between it was originally for years ago. L A versus San Francisco, which cine can find the most ager in the hundred forty cities around the world. Lots of cities in the western United States LA and San Francisco a long standing rivalry. Help us beat San Francisco. I just remembered one thing or new book while I'm one of the co-authors Carol was one of our scientific advisers. We have a whole we have twenty five field trips around LA, the nature gardens is one of them. So on vine, okay hero. Anything you would like to add in terms of the the plant in wildlife connection to the plants that I didn't mention it all that are really kind of should be at the top of the list for providing capital are the buckwheat s- the area games and Bacchus so buckwheat ZIM backer as have been huge stars in terms of the the insect diversity that they support how many different species of buck weeds. Do you have in the garden and our their lists of plant and plant species that you have in the garden up online under on the website. We don't have it online. I do. You have a plant database, and you know, we share it with people who express an interest in it. But it's not live. I can roughly say that we have probably seven or eight species of buckwheat in the garden. I'm really glad you mentioned both of those because they are such for one thing. Great season extenders, we are very close to our time. So I think I will move to is there is there anything else you would like to add maybe speaking personally to some moment of beauty or engagement in the garden that you could share with visitors about, you know, not just the wise. But not just the like you should. But the this is why it's so powerful to you personally. Well, I could say that for me the time that I spend not only in this garden, but my own garden brings me joy just by virtue of seeing the beauty that plants that are thriving provides and the support that they also provide the the dynamic between the plants and the wildlife is just a constant stores of. While inspiration, beauty and pleasure. It's it's part of the fabric of of our landscape in. I I don't know how I came to. Appreciate that. Exactly. I I've been gardening since I was a child, but I don't really think I paid that much attention to the wildlife. It was more the plants initially and over time I've come to appreciate the connection. Between all of these different living things, and how they how they change over time to me that is I think one of the most interesting aspects of being a gardener and the happy surprises when something does what you don't expect it to do, and that can be a wonderful thing in of itself, the problem solving aspect of being a gardener realizing that not everything is going to work the way you want that there are going to be failures. But they'll also be a lot of successes the willingness to you know, the willingness to fail and to to try something new, and it's always changing. That's what I love about. What I do that. It's it's unpredictable, and I really appreciate and value that very highly. What about you Leela? So for me, it's really going to see people in this space engaging as the manager of the community signs program like getting right before this interview. I went onto I natural. Which is the platform we use to help documents nature in this garden space, like how many species observations have been found documented by people who visit the museum and some of those people coming to our programs. Some of those people are kids in you know, some of our kind of like nature clubs, but some of them are just general visitors who maybe don't even get a personal interaction with. And so I looked that up. We had over two hundred seventy two people submitted three thousand seven hundred ninety seven observations which represents five hundred twenty eight species in that garden space up. And so seeing the power of that data set that has been collectively created by many most of those people are not scientists they're not they don't have undergraduate degree or master's or PHD in science, but they are out there and they care enough to take a photo and they care enough to submit. And so we get to see that data. And then get a better understanding of what is here in this garden space, and that's really powerful to me than having those personal interactions in the space will ink out, even if I'm just really rushed in Woking to meeting will through the space and see a group of schoolchildren kind of running joint smiles on that faces. And then when the they realize that they're allowed to kind of put their hands in the pond and failed at pond Volta and the teachers like, yeah, okay. Go ahead and just like this exuberant joy on those faces that feeds me feeds, my soul and shows the true power of the space. Thank you. Both very much for being guests on the program today. It has been a great pleasure to speak to you both and learn even more about those powerful gardens. Thank you, a pleasure to be a part of this series. Yes. Thank you. Carol Bornstein is a California native plant expert and the director of the nature gardens at the natural history. Museum of Los Angeles County. Leila Higgins is an entomologist educator and senior manager of community. Science at the natural history. Museum with hard data collected over the last seven years and huge hearts for this work. Carol and Leela are just two people in a large team working to increase support and learn from the nature gardens and the habitat they provide they provide that habitat to us all humans and other wildlife for more information on the nature gardens. Please see the museum's website at N H M dot org where you can follow the data collections and live cams that Carol and Leila were telling us about placed out in the gardens. You can also check out their new book co authored by Leila on which Carroll served. A science editor it's called wild LA exploring, the amazing nature in and around Los Angeles. As they say alligator lizards and free flying parakeets are just the beginning. While this was meant to be the fifth and final episode in our deep dive series into our gardens as important in sustaining habitats for the wildlife of our native areas, and we gardeners as important stewards of bio-diversity. I just couldn't help myself. I have extended the exploration to one more episode because it fits in so beautifully. You might know of the iron. Rush plants woman and garden designer Mary Reynolds from the movie dare to be wild of which her surprising gold medal winning garden design at the Chelsea flower show and her passion for nature in gardens is the focus or you might know her as the author of the garden awakening in either event, I think you will really enjoy hearing her garden life journey and her concept for gardens as arcs of hope for wildlife, the globe over join us next week for that cultivating places a listener supported co-production of nor state public radio for more information and many photos from the inspiring nature gardens in Los Angeles. See this week show notes under the podcast tab, Eckelt availing, place dot com. Our engine near skyscraper field. Original theme music is by Mark muse, accompanied by Joe craven, and Sam Bevan cultivating places distributed nationally by p r x public radio exchange until next week and joy, the cultivation of your place. I'm Jennifer jewel.