20 Episode results for "Senator Obama"
State Governments Urged To Ensure Financial Inclusion For Poor Citizens
"You're listening to the news and africa. Business radio the sun is comedy and banking and other financial institutions has urged state governments pods clearly in the northwest zone on the country to ensure financial inclusion for poor citizens to raise a concern. That over seventy percents of adult northwestern zoellner nationally excluded while addressing reporters in kaduna of the committee. Senator obama sunny arched naughton governor succumb to sustainable framework as soon as possible had described the situation as a tragedy realization federal governments poetry doctrine plan center. Sonny says state governments must hasten establishment of microfinance community banks helping access to financial services in rural communities where the majority of the country's excluded population. That wasn't news. At this time. In africa business radio can continue to listen live online at. Www dot africa business radio dot com of our mobile app. I am chicken on. So morty and thank you for listening.
State Governments Urged To Ensure Financial Inclusion For Poor Citizens
"You're listening to the news and africa. Business radio the sun is comedy and banking and other financial institutions has urged state governments pods clearly in the northwest zone on the country to ensure financial inclusion for poor citizens to raise a concern. That over seventy percents of adult northwestern zoellner nationally excluded while addressing reporters in kaduna of the committee. Senator obama sunny arched naughton governor succumb to sustainable framework as soon as possible had described station that attracted realization federal governments poverty-reduction plan center sonny says state governments must hasten establishment of microfinance community. Banks help dipping access to financial services in rural communities where the majority of the country's excluded population that wasn't news at this time in africa. Business radio can continue to listen live online at. Www dot africa business radio dot com of our mobile app. I am chicken on. So morty and thank you for listening.
Barack Obamas 2008 Election
"I Barack Hussein Obama do solemnly swear Barack Obama's inauguration as president of the United States was add a few of us believe we would ever see our lifetimes and a success seem to Mark a profound change in the history of America's tortured racial politics. Very few people would ever heard of Barack Obama when he gave a keynote speech at the 2004 Democratic Convention. I remember thinking who is this guy? He was so exciting and charismatic and put forward a vision of America that could excite all of us across rates. There is not a Black America and a white America and Latino America and Asia in America. There's the United States of America. Barack Obama was offering the country who kind of aspirational vision of what it could be and it proved to be politically very very powerful despite the enormous excitement that agreed it's across the nation when the first-term senator announced his candidacy for president. It's struck many as an exceedingly long shot. There was a lot of hesitation in terms of whether or not a black candidate could win the presidency and whether or not voting for him would be in effect throwing away a vote those presidential campaign focused largely on issues other than race Senator Obama felt compelled to address the subject after an inflammatory video surfaced quoting has passed her the Reverend Jeremiah right out of context. With his presidential prospects in dire Jeopardy Obama confronted the issue directly with a brilliantly wrought and deeply personal speech icon more disown him than I can disown my white grandmother a woman who loves me as much as she loves anything in this world, but a woman who once confessed her fear of black men who passed her by on the street. I think the fact that Barack Obama had grown up in a household where he did not have first-hand experience with you know, relatives who had gone through a Litany of Horrors that is in you know, the history of black people in this country meant that he had a perspective on Race that very few African Americans in this country have we may have different stories but we home, and hopes we may not look the same and may not have come from the same place. But we all want to move in the same direction towards a better future for our children wage. Our grandchildren African Americans who saw the speech and said, oh, okay. He understands where we're coming from and they will white people who will flood speech and certainly understands that I'm not a racist even if I have these idea that people might think are unpopular about race. That was the masterstroke of that speech. Obama's unifying message resonated with voters across the country on November 4th 2008. They elected him the first African American president of the United States of America. We got the idea that there is a black president that black children off the black people can go out and say there's somebody that looks like me in the White House and not just Obama Michelle Obama their children that there is a family that looks like me in the White House is huge.
Black People Leaving
"Sometimes food is more than just food. It's part of our community. So this year discover is giving five million dollars to support black owned restaurants to places like back in the day bakery post office pies, and hundreds more learn how you can show your support at discover dot com. I'M DAVID PLOUFFE and I'm Steve Schmidt where the host of battleground a new podcast from the recount in two thousand eight Iran Senator John McCain's campaign for President David Managed Senator Obama's. In battleground, we're going state by state giving you depth reporting on the trump and Biden strategies so that you understand what they're doing and more importantly why they're doing. Listen to battleground starting on September fourteenth on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. All right. Actually, it's you're nephew with black people leaving wouldn't be. So surely it's about some people leave they make seen when they leak you know what? I'm saying yeah. Some people leave and you just never know you never know they left. They just go but us. US AS A. Race. We're make a sane. We make a state like this right here when you leaving the funeral Jay. My Name Ain't he the program. Go looking had come up we leave it up out Right now, I'll tell you right now we will how we ain't on the program how? Paul. GotTa meet. When we leave a wedding. Wow I said that right didn't. Look. What? I said it when I went didn't know I was saying. When we leave quit Wayne. How come I ain't got no place to see it. Just. So you know that h that baby ain't choice we. Just, Janu we OUGHTA. Inkling. This is black when black people leave saying, we actually make a seat. Where we lead movies why K brain my own food and here is my food. His. Mouth. BOOB. I leave and I'm GonNa tell how the girl dieting. Since I got to go, we gotta make it about don't. was. Black people we make us look we leaving the lily gain. Okay my bay play the whole game. What did I say? Hey, to five dollars fought. Come on. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. Don't worry. Don't worry about. Is. Say Tipped Come on. A. Team, you got to put up with this. Where your uniform to school tomorrow. With black people leave the job. We go make AC- that's how we do. It's a good thing. You find me outfit to quit anyway. True. True Veto. Let it be known. Wow Reddish. Excuse me while lease. Hey Hey I'll leave the Friday coming. To. Communists fried dough. No I've been here ten years and I'm stealing something every week. County. Been steelers about that. I'm far grant up. A restaurant. Why do black people sit? There ought to the highest thing on the bill knowing ain't got it in their pocket. Apo- Eight of. You know not. GonNa. Grab some and to pick on the way. Waiter waitress got us. Better. Leave when we leave stole believe we go make a scene Not. They had expiration coupon I ain't it. Okay. I. Don't know why Y'all tripping out of Donald Snow. Dan Way why is your trip? Back beyond they don't buy why do. Store. Black people. Leave a scene they make A. In. One come on. When he gets put out the Strip club? Go. Ahead with four dollars, why can I stay in here? Just look at it. Off. Picking Your. Up Take. Stay here look at what money down. down. Lear trip. To make it about. We make. Out yesterday. I was at this Taco place in the lady apparently she was there yesterday. So she bought the exact same thing, right? So she gets. Assist about. How you doing I'm like. Check out the lady. Brung. It up. So it was nine dollars the day before whenever she was there but it was eleven yesterday. She said, why is it eleven dollars and she said, well, ma'am, you got to issue order shifts in case I got there yesterday she said, well, let me see the receipts the girl pulled the receipt and she gave to it she said Yeah but they didn't charge you. Casal for the cheese yesterday what that a problem I'm not been gigging two extra Dallas 'cause they charge I WANNA make. Let's see. Here we go. Please Allen. How won't the case though when the chips just rang up Taco? Salad Malin. Always stand behind person to. Look like and it looked like you widows. Back to. Back looking around trying to let other people in front of you. Separating. Right. I will be back with more of the Steve Harvey Morning Show right after this you're listening to. Morning Show.
The Emmys Are Making A Big Change In Order To Honor Tyler Perry
"Today's episode is brought to you by meow mix looking for cat food with chart topping taste head to target and pick up your mix the cat food causing pert ammonium everywhere with one hundred percent complete and balanced nutrition for various life stages shop with target circle and save fifteen percent meow mix cat food the only one cats ask for by name. Welcome. To the criminally podcast I'm holly FRY and I'm Marie itch market together. We're exploring the intersection of history true crime. Our first season of the show is all about lady poisoners sometimes women take power for themselves and sometimes they do it through murder but how many were just misunderstood join us on Camelia as untangle their stories on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. A direct from Hollywood with Ryan seacrest years the emmys have handed out a prestigious prize called the governor's award typically offaire during the creative arts. emmys. But they're bringing it to the prime time broadcast and entertainment mogul and Philanthropist Tyler Perry and the Tyler Perry Foundation will be honored not only for his broad contributions TV but also for his commitment to extending opportunities to marginalized communities through employment opportunities. Outreach programs by wave's Perry Foundation Tyler more than deserving having built a two billion dollar entertainment empire from the ground up the seventy second Emmy Awards Aaron ABC September Twenty. Direct from Hollywood. Hi, I'm David. And I'm Steve Schmidt where the host of a new podcast called battleground in it. We'll try and answer the three questions that are essential to understanding American elections in the core battleground states who are the campaign starting, how are they targeting them and why in two thousand eight Iran Senator McCain's campaign for President and David Managed Senator Obama's we understand elections as well as anyone else in America better than almost any, and we've seen enough elections to know this one is far from over trump does better in battleground states than in the rest of the country plus the pandemic is an unprecedented wildcard. Pull systematically underestimate from or and I guarantee you. They'll have a few October surprises up his sleeve in battleground will go state by state and give you in depth reporting on the trump and Biden strategies today you understand what they're doing and why they're doing battleground is a podcast from the region listen battleground starting on September, fourteenth on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
Murder The Hit: "Hot Flash"
"Sometimes, food is more than just food. It's part of our community. So this year discover is giving five million dollars to support black owned restaurants to places like back in the day bakery post office pies, and hundreds more learn how you can show your support at discover dot com. I'M DAVID PLOUFFE and I'm Steve Schmidt where the host of battleground a new podcast from the recount in two thousand, eight, Iran Senator John McCain's campaign for President David Managed Senator Obama's. In battleground we're going state by state giving you depth reporting on the trump and Biden strategies so that you understand what they're doing and more importantly why they're doing. Listen to battleground, starting on September fourteenth on the IHEART radio, APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. I J is in the building Steve Time to murder another hit. Please introduce them give them a good one. I'm Scared Ladies and gentlemen. Dad Murder. Don't be skied song right here. Dedicated to all the ladies we're going through I don't know hit it. Has His guy. Is Low. Thirty eight. Weeks. Learn. And read. It. Front. WanNa. would. A. Genius. You're now he's not knowing scarlet. To raise. Thirty. Two. Joel. Enjoy the you. I didn't say and you know what the problem is me and Jay talk on the phone and and. GET INSPIRATION FOR The whole world knows. US. And turn to. More of this crazy ignorance show Steve Harvey Morning Show. Right after this you're listening to. Morning Show.
The O'Reilly Update, June 25, 2019
"Bill O'Reilly here. Tuesday, June twenty fifth two thousand nineteen. You are listening to the O'Reilly update. And here's what's happening today in America. President Trump releases new details on his Middle East peace plan and says he does not need congressional approval to strike Iran file democratic presidential candidates pushed for free college with zero debt. Chicago officials under pressure after new study shows wealthy residents living decades longer than the poor Oregon considers a new plan. So marijuana to other states after growers produce too much pot. Also coming up, I message of the day on this week's democratic debate, but first, the news, President Trump unveiling new details of a Middle East peace plan calling the fifty billion dollar proposal, a deal of the century for the region, there, would raise cash to invest. In Palestinian control. Territories throughout Israel, Palestinian, president of boss rejected the proposal out of hand calling it, quote humiliating, black map as usual some players in the Middle East do not want. Peace is been that way for decades to the gambling trail in the USA where both Bernie Sanders, and Elizabeth Warren pledge to provide free public college to all Americans while cancelling debt for those already burdened with student loans, communists, say, there is currently two trillion dollars of student debt. Outstanding with forty five million Americans involved. Senator Sanders pledging to pay for the proposal with new taxes on Wall Street Chicago looking like Charles Dickens attell of two cities with new studies showing wealthy residents live thirty years longer than the city's four population in Chicago. Riches neighborhoods. The average life expectancy is about ninety in poor traditionally African American sections. People are not likely to live beyond sixty that's the greatest alive discrepancy of any American city. Oregon officials facing unintended consequences after legalizing pot back in two thousand fifteen they have too much marijuana, according to states marijuana control commission, more than two thousand growers produce so much pot. It would take the state seven years to sell the entire crop lawmakers hoping to sell the drug to other states that have legalized, the substance coming up my message of the day on what to ask Democrats vying for the presidential nomination after this. Millions of Americans have been diagnosed with cancer or a serious illness. If you are one of them and money is a problem. You're not alone. It's simple. If you own a life insurance policy of one hundred thousand dollars more than life guide partners can evaluate your coverage for free to see if you qualify for cash. Now when you need it, the most be ready to take down the summer. If you own a life insurance policy of one hundred thousand dollars or more, and you are living with a serious illness, then life-guide partners can evaluate your coverage free to see if you qualify for cash now. So, right. There's number down one eight guide fifty totally free to call get rid of those insurance premiums. Stop paying them consider turning that life policy into cash. The number again, one eight eight eight guide fifty one eight. Eight eight eight four eight four three three five zero one eight eight guide fifty call now time now for the Orion update message of the day, the debate soaring twenty democratic folks vying for the presidential nomination this week should be of interest to all voters at stake for the dams is whether the party will run to the far left or return to the somewhat moderate approach that was successful for Barack Obama, then Senator Obama was no radical bomb thrower back in two thousand seven when he burst onto the national political scene. No way you may remember he opposed gay marriage talk tough about stopping illegal immigration was against reparations for slavery. Mr Obama chose old hand Senator Joe Biden is running mate, when Biden had vocally called for seven hundred miles. The border fencing barriers that would stop anyone from crossing into the USA illegally. Now, Barack Obama's moderate approach worked, but he did govern as a social Justice warrior after he was elected. But Misra Bama, never espoused tearing down the entire American economic system today, the far left has seized control of the Democratic Party. No question about that using an intense internet smear machine and cheering media to promote socialism, open borders, free healthcare, not to mention late term abortion and payments to African Americans for the injustice of slavery. So we'll most of the democratic candidates, tell the nation that capitalism must go and society must be ruled by politically, correct dictums. It is a safe bet that Donald Trump hopes it happens. He believes, America will not vote for radical left change, even though. Oh, they voted for extreme change last time around by electing him. But not all change is the same. Donald Trump vowed to drain the swamp in Washington. Some of the democratic presidential contenders this time wanna create a new swap one that leans socialist with all of these candidates bloviating this week in Miami. It will be those who say the most extreme things that will get the most attention. Mr. Trump prove that when he went up against sixteen Republicans in the summer of two thousand fifteen and marginalize them with withering insults, and nicknames, like lion, Ted. And little Marco remember that will any of the Democrats used that playbook probably not, my guess, and it is that again, is that Senator Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden will make the most noise in the debate. Eight form miss Warren, in particular has to separate herself from the Bernie Sanders movement, her voters, and his voters are pretty much the same this Warren says she's a quote, democratic socialist sodas, Bernie Sanders, but Senator Warren will have to separate herself from Bernie Sanders, if she wants to win the democratic nomination with the others anything could happen. Joe Biden, we'll have to play defense. Everybody will be looking to take him down. So check in here later this week to see if I'm right? And that is the message for more, honest fact commentary, please go to Bill o'riley dot com. I believe you like it right back with something you might not know. I know you have heard of the AARP, you might even be a member, what you. Might not realize that AARP has shifted left and his AVI. Come a liberal lobbying group that spends your money lobbying against what you may believe in, thankfully, there is a conservative alternative organization that believes in the sanctity of our constitution and stands up for the values that make America great. It's called amac for less than twenty dollars a year and amac membership gives you members only pricing on car insurance roadside assistance discounts on hotels travel. Cellphone plants discount dental plans and much more. Your amac membership dollar support the ideals, that you believe in, like protecting our borders with immigration reform and fixing social security. Amac gets its voice from you the individual member. So please join more than one million fellow Americans right now at amac dot US. Amac dot US, and yes, I'm a proud member. So, please, visit amac dot US now the Arale update brings you something, you might not know the summer season officially arrived across the USA millions of Americans will spend the coming months, camping hiking, enjoying the great outdoors with family and friends, but be warned there may be deadly predator hiding behind rocks under sheds, even in your kitchen. If you leave the door, open, snakes, believe it or not, the USA is home to some of the deadliest in the world, the most dangerous species is the diamond back rattlesnake, if bitten and untreated, the mortality rate for humans is more than thirty percent eastern. Coral snakes can also be lethal. Researchers at National Geographic say one in ten species of snakes in America are dangerous to people that number jumps to sixty five percent and ustralia. So. Careful. If you're planning a trip down under anytime soon, especially to the outback fortunately widespread access to emergency medical supplies. Means very few snake bites are fatal lease days pharmacies throughout the USA or stock with anti snake, venom, and first responders or call away and do that. An eighteen more than seven thousand people were bitten by poisonous snakes in America, but only five worldwide India is the country with the most NAACP fatalities experts, stunning fifty thousand people die each year from venomous bites. Neighboring Pakistan comes in a disincentive and with eight thousand fatalities per year. The planet's deadly serpent. The black memba can be found in the rainforests of central Africa, a single byte from that species lethal to ninety five percent of all human beings, within fifteen minutes if left untreated, despite their scary reputation. Snakes are responsible for the same amount of deaths across the planet as domesticated dogs while obviously not venomous bite for man's best friend kills thousands per year from rabies and other diseases. The planet's deadliest creature to human beings is actually much smaller, and something must of us will encounter, dozens of times of summer, the lowly mosquito, scientists say more than one million people per year die from diseases transmitted by that common pest. So if you plan on taking a hike, the summer, maybe a good idea to practice commonsense if you encounter a snake but you're probably much better off in the can of bug spray. We'll be back in a moment. Well, you've been hearing about gold all over the news and prices, keep going up experts warning recession may becoming and it's time to prepare a recent analyst week says he sees goal going hundreds of dollars per ounce to hit. Seventeen hundred bucks an ounce. That's why I recommend that you contact the Hartford gold group now. To learn more to get you started. The Hartford goal group will give you a free silver coin. All of my radio listeners will get it. And if you're listening right now you can get the coin from the Hartford goal group no purchases necessary. All you have to do is call them. Eight seven seven four four four GO L D gold, eight seven seven four. Four four GO, L, D gold. Give them a call today to claim your free coin and get the information available for a limited time, only eight seven seven four four four four six five three eight seven seven four four four four six five three. Please call today. Thank you for listening to the Iraqi update. I am Bill O'Reilly, no spin just facts and always looking out for you.
Bonus: One-on-One with John Hickenlooper
"Are you hiring with indeed you can post job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast. Hello and welcome to powerhouse politics. I'm ABC news, political director recline bringing you a special edition of the podcast to highlight. An interview that ABC news hat exclusively with the latest candidate in the twenty twenty feel the former governor of Colorado, John Hickenlooper governor Hickenlooper represents a new type of candidate in this field in that he is a moderate a self-described radical-moderate after a whole bunch of self-described progressives and liberals in the field, he brings different credentials someone who governs more from the center and has had to do. So in a purple state that may be trending a bit blue in the state of Colorado, one of the states that President Trump actually did not carry much to his disappointment in two thousand sixteen governor Hickenlooper is also the second governor in the race coming on the heels of Jay Inslee, Washington's governor I in representing a different field that now has to elbow its way in with a whole bunch of senators and congressmen and even mayors and former mayor's already running for president. So the field is expanding getting more interesting by the day. We wanted to bring you George Stephanopoulos is exclusive interview. With John Hickenlooper on good Morning, America. And George started things off with the campaign video that Hickenlooper put out on Monday morning. I'm John Hickenlooper. I'm running for president because we're facing a crisis. That threatens everything we stand for governor. Thank you for joining us. What is that crisis? I think this is a crisis of division. And I think it's probably the worst period of division that we've had in this country since the civil war, and ultimately, I'm running for president because I believe that not only can I be Donald Trump. But that I am the person that can bring people together on the other side and actually get stuff done the divisions keeping us from addressing big issues like climate change and the soaring costs of of health care, you know, the the disruption in the workplace that are gonna come from automation artificial intelligence, you know, I've got a history both in the private sector, but also in government of getting people together and getting stuff done. And I think that's you know in Colorado. We now have almost universal healthcare coverage. We have. I've been able to achieve a level of collaboration between the industry and the only the only gas industry and the environmental community to get methane regulations. That reminds me of President Obama when he was Senator Obama back in two thousand four saying there's no red America. There's new blue America. He wanted to heal the divisions as well. They didn't defeat him. But he couldn't solve that problem. How can you? Well, I think that a lot of what's going on in America's people not going out and listening, and I look at when I when I won reelection two thousand fourteen a terrible year for Democrats. You know, I went to out to the rural areas I listened to ranchers worrying about where they're going to get the water. I talk to the people in small towns in the suburbs. Worried about their jobs. I talked to women families all over the state about you know, the cost of housing and how they're going to make sure they can afford their healthcare. These are the basic issues people care about and I think people feel like no one in Washington has been addressing it. This is going to be a huge field on the democratic side. Maybe. More than two dozen maybe thirty candidates in there. The first challenge for any candidate. How do you stand out? I was talking to governor Jay Inslee of Washington yesterday. He's focused his whole focusing his whole campaign on climate change. What sets you apart? I think I'm the really the one candidate out there that has a very strong record of bringing people together and getting things done. And that that sense. I mean, we've got to beat Donald Trump. That's essential not sufficient, and when you look at who does have that that experience of being able to, you know, get things done on there. We got the I said the oil and gas industry work with environmental community to create methane regulations. They're now being rolled out across Canada. They've been copied in California. We're almost one hundred percent coverage healthcare, we're purple state that got universal background checks past your you say, you're the doer not the dreamer in this race who are the dreamers. Well, I think it's not question of dreamers. It's I mean, we need dreamers. I'm a dreamer. Right. We need vision. Right. But we also need people that get stuff done and all my, you know, as CEO of a restaurant and our group of restaurants for fifteen years, and then I was mayor for eight years, and then I was a governor for eight years. One thing I've shown I can do again, and again is create teams. Amazingly talented people and really address these issues issues that are the there the critical issues facing this country in the past you describe yourself as a moderate back in two thousand twelve I think even said he thought you were to moderate to win a democratic primary doesn't seem like moderation is in tune with where democratic primary voters are right now. Yeah. But I think you know, I've been to New Hampshire and Iowa to Florida and South Carolina. I don't think voters are interested in labels anymore. I think they really there's an appetite for people that can get stuff done and can show that you know, when the chips are down that the candidate is a person who can who the most successful cat. It will be the person who can get people to put down their weapons and collaborate to a point where he gets a real progressive change. And I look at what we've done in Colorado is cheap progressive goals. I'm not sure what other states have done that. So even when I was a mayor I got all three or four mayors two thirds of them Republicans or conservative independence, but three four mayors universally support a. Largest transit initiative in the history of the country. We call the fast tracks hundred twenty two miles of new track. I mean, that's how you address climate change is creating you'll groups of people that are committed both forget about Republican democrat. But how do we get things done? Let's let's put some meat on the bones. You're like the president to come in Mitch McConnell, Republican Mitch McConnell still ahead of the Senate. They still have majority. What's the first thing you do with him? What can you work together? Well, you know, just like anybody. People are responsive to people that they think respect them, and they feel hurt other this in the restaurant business when someone's angry, you don't, you know, fight back on them argue with them, you repeat back their words, and if Mitch McConnell if I got came into when I come into office, I would go to Mitch McConnell to his office. And I would sit down with him and say now, what is the issue again, and we would talk and I would continue to speak back to him sound silly, right? But this works this is what I did. With the suburban mayors, and they hated the city of Denver, you go to any metropolitan area in the country the arguments between the the big city mayor and the suburban mayors. They're almost endless where the one place where this has got got done. And I think it will work in Washington. So it seems like week two good day for you to come to Morning America. You're hosmer fan. Oh my gosh. It's it's so strange. So I, you know, I love music. I I went to Woodstock I saw Janice. Joplin play Jimi Hendrix play in their in their primes. And when I ran for re election in two thousand fourteen again terrible year for Democrats, but we had this tough fought. Victory. I took my son we went to Iceland for just for five day weekend. Because there's a nonstop flight from Denver, and we got there and there in the airport is hosier who ten days before we both gone and seen him in boulder, and we've gone backstage and met him and hung out and the nicest guy in the world, and and really one of the most talented young musicians anywhere. Thanks for joining us. Thank you, Georgia. All right. That does it for this special edition of powerhouse politics up for Giancarlo in the whole team. We'll be back here on Wednesday with our next edition. We'll see them. Are you hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash podcast. That's indeed dot com slash podcast.
Kathi Kinnear Hill - "But I Just Might"
"This episode is brought to you by better help if you're struggling with stress or anxiety or depression better help online counseling offers licensed professional counselors who are trained to listen and help simply fill out a questionnaire to get matched with your counselor start communicating online via secure video phone chat or text in under forty eight hours. Join the one million plus people taking charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced better help counselor better help is also an affordable option in our listeners get ten percent off your first month with Discount Code moth get started at better help dot com slash mouth that's better H E l, P dot com slash moth. The moth is brought to you by progressive one of the country's leading providers of auto insurance with progressive name, your price tool. You say what kind of coverage you're looking for and how much you want to pay and progressive. We'll help you find options that fit within your budget, use the name, your price tool, and start an online quote today at progressive, Dot Com price and coverage match limited by State Law Hey there before we get started today, we have a favor to ask you we're conducting our annual moth audience surveys. We can get to know you a little better. Will you take five minutes to tell us about you and share some of your thoughts about the show we'd really value your feedback please visit survey dot, PX Dot Org Slash Mall to take the survey today that's. DOT PR x dot org slash moth thanks. Welcome to the moth podcast I'm your host for this week, John Good. And today with the news and politics seems to focus so much on what tears US apart. Let's take a look at what brings us together. For instance we can all agree that bagels should not be cut like loaves of bread. I'm looking at you Saint Louis. And I'm also sure we can all agree that we can disagree and still be kind and simple to one another. Our story on this episode is from Kathy can near Hill Kathy to- this at a mainstay show in Jackson Hole Wyoming with the theme of the night was a more perfect union. Here's Cathy. Live at the mall. It was Kansas City Kansas. The year two thousand twelve. And it was the reelection campaign for President Barack Obama. I was working. And Wonderful Day. I walked into the office and I'M NOT GONNA lie I was thrilled to find out. That we were going to skype with the president. He popped up on that screen. And he gave us a pep talk, you know that Obama kind of pep. Talk. And he thanked us for all of our hard work. And then he said Get Out of Kansas. Were wasting our time. For those of you who could do this? Take this campaign to. Council Bluffs Iowa. Take this campaign to Iowa and I am asking you to please deliver Iowa to me to us. Well. Yeah I'll do that. I'd already worked his election campaign a few years before. And in when you're campaigning and volunteering, you have duties like putting signs yard signs up and. Pamphlets here and there. and. Having. Conversations because the president always say just have conversations conversations after conversations don't stop. And also we are registering people to vote and I will never forget. Looking in to the faces of my African American elders. And they say to me. I've never voted. I've never registered. But I'm registering now. Because I have a reason. So. Not only do I have A. Personal reason to be working these these campaigns. After reading a little bit about Senator Obama back in the day I realized that he and I had a couple of things in common. One. We were biracial in America and identified as black. And we grew up. In an era of turmoil where we we both had to we had to decide and determine who we were. Where we were going. No one could help us and tell us that we had to go on that journey. Another thing we had in common. and. Do you have in common is that we were raised by loving white families? So. I'm heading from. The suburbs and cities of the Kansas City area to campaign in the cities and suburbs of. Iowa. And I got in my little, Honda. Every weekend for about a year and drove four hours there in four hours back. and. Did the same types of things, lots, hundreds, and hundreds of phone calls. Knocking on doors and and registering people to vote. And Towards the end of that campaign in two thousand twelve, I got a phone call and I was asked to be. A canvas captain. Which is Basically. Just taking a leadership role doing the same duties that I had already been doing, but they asked me to do this in rural Iowa. So. Being that committed person that I am. I said, yes and I'm dropped off me a middle aged African. American woman and another campaign worker a little bit older African American woman. In Barrel Farmland Iowa. So, we walked into this little teeny campaign office and we got our little clipboards are pens, and all of our papers have put a little buttons on our Bama Hat and we're GONNA go register people to vote. So. We did and we walked out of that door and. Rita. Partner in campaigning was. Is. One of the strongest in most amazing women I've ever met. A retired schoolteacher so I looked up to her and I looked over at her and I said. We don't do we. Are we going? We're going to do this right? And she said I am fired up and ready to go. Aren't you? I'm fired up and ready to let's go and I said well, then yeah, I'm fired up ready to go to. So we walk. We're walking down a farm road and our first stop was a trailer park. And as we're approaching the gate to open it. We looked up. And there was. A man. Big Old redneck man with a big old rifle. Before we get open that gate. He looked at US and he said. I didn't vote for your nigger last time and I voted for your nigger this time. Now, you girls better turn around and yet. And we did. And again, I looked at and said. You know we don't. We don't have to do. We don't have to do this and she said Oh I'm more fired up and ready to go. Let's go. So we did and we knocked on doors and we knocked on doors and we rang doorbells. On that day was that horrible to us? We had people, of course closing the door in our faces. Just saying no thank you. And, then of course, you've got the ones that you knock on their door and you can see the curtain open and close. We're like. Yeah we know you're there. But we didn't stop us. We kept walking and then we get to farm and we're walking down this long gravel driveway. And Approaching. The farmer who owns that that land? And he looks at us. And he says Now. I see what you're selling and I'm. Not. Buying. And I remembered president asking us to have conversations and I said. Could we just have a minute? And before he could answer. His wife opened the front door. And she said. Ladies if you're going to be at my house, you better come in here on the table in the back of my mind, I'm thinking but do I really want To Get out moment. Do I really want. To. Go into this. This home farmhouse in the middle of nowhere I don't know these people. And the door closes, right But before my thought was finished. Rita says, yes Ma'am we are hungry. So. We went in. And we sat down. Oh that food. MEATLOAF. That was. Melting in our mouth mashed potatoes and gravy Greens. Corn Bread And Sweet. Tea. It was soul food. And our conversations with C. Sel, and Wilma. It was a beautiful time. We talked about a lot of things they asked to few questions about the campaign and we talked a little bit about that. But mostly, we ask them questions. About their lives. And they told us about. Their kids. And their grandchildren. They literally breathed for those grandbabies they lived for those grandbabies. And they told us about the church down the way where they got married. And before we knew it, it was it was time to go. To, the front door we think them for this lovely meal. and. WILMA gives us a hug and hands it some food to go. And walking back down that gravel drive seesaw is walking with us to get us to the road. And when we get to the road, he takes both our hands. Rita Cathy. Thank you. Thank you for coming in and sharing this time with this and thank you. For talking to us. But most of all. Thank you for listening to us. Now I probably won't for your guy. And we waved and turned around and walked away. In a few steps up, we hear this but hey cathy. I just might. Thank you. That was Kathy near Hill Kathy grew up in Portland and moved to the Kansas City area after marrying her husband Hill Her dad was a professor at Lewis and Clark. College, Her mom taught Martin Luther King Junior school where Kathy is now an instructional assistant to a class of kindergarteners and these days Kathy and Dennis. How both enjoying newfound grandparenthood. Congratulations Cathy Dennis with Cathy how she reflects on her past experience campaigning now especially during this device of time in our country. As I knocked on the doors of urban high rises and and enter the fenced. claves, rural sheep ranches. I was ready for anything. It's impossible to be surprised as a black person in America. You know maybe those negative responses toward me and my fellow campaign community left a scar. But the hospitality of the many caring people left larger marks. Those marks are now part of my spirit and my heart. Remembering our hope. In Two thousand twelve translates to new hope in twenty twenty. When we have awakened the spirit of knowing. Yes we can. Again. We will make the surreal magical. We must. That was Kathy can near Hill. To See some photos of Kathy from the campaign trail here to the extras for this episode on our website, the moth dot org slash extras. I actually hosted the moth the night that Kathy enthralled the Jackson Hole audience with this true story from her life. Let me say there aren't a lot of people of Color in Jackson Hole, Wyoming that night on the stage there were three tellers of color and it felt like they were more people of color on the stage that the audience after the show was over the tellers, moth directors and producers. We all went to a local establishment for some food and we were joined by several members of the audience and we people whose lives probably couldn't be more different all set in talked and laughed and shared in gained a greater understanding of each other and in the ways we always have we made this union more perfect. We at the moth, want to remind you how important it is for you to use your voice and your vote. You can find information on how to register to vote how to apply for an absentee ballot and more in the extras for this episode on our website, the moth dot org slash extras. That's all for this week until next time from all of us here at the Mall Heavy Story Worthy Week. John Good is an emmy nominated writer raised in Richmond Virginia and currently residing in Atlanta. Georgia John is the regular host of the moths Atlanta Story. Slam and has a number one bestselling collection of poems and short stories entitled Conduit that you can find on Amazon dot com podcast production by Julia per sale with help from my sister tiffany good. The moth podcast is presented by PR IX the public radio exchange helping make public radio more public at PR wrecks, Dot Org.
Lets Talk About the Power of Words
"You're listening to episode two, hundred, Ninety, two women worldwide. Let's talk about the power of words. Are you hearing and seeing their uplifting nature or are they words on fire? I've got a guest who has a lot to share on this topic. So stay tuned to learn more. Hi I'm Deirdre Breckenridge I've spent his entire career helping women to share stories, nurture relationships were on their brands but most of all to find their voices, they can make a difference. Do you feel stuck? Do you want to power up your own voice women, worldwide features, stories of passionate women who have navigated big career challenges and some of the toughest changes these professionals offer deep insights and advice to inspire you and to help you uncover what's holding you back. We worldwide ignite your passion SUV, you can excel in life. Hi Everyone. Welcome to another episode of Women Worldwide Thank you so much for tuning in and for showing up wherever you are in this world we appreciate you and we also can't thank you enough for all of the sharing that you're doing of our shows and letting us know how you're feeling. Most of all. This gets us to find the guests, the inspirations, stories, the motivation, and the. Help that you need. So I WANNA get to today's topic, which is words and whether they are uplifting or their words on fire now, I'm GonNa. Let you decide because you're currently seeing hearing plenty of words out there whether it's on social media in the news at your companies or even in your personal gatherings, and that's the Segue to my special guest joining me on the show his. He'll Fred Garcia friend my friend and colleague who is returning to women worldwide he is a long Fred is author of several books. We're GONNA talk about his new book today he is a professor, a crisis consultant. He's also a speaker and he is the founder of Logos Institute. I say so much about Fred because I admire his work but I think it's best he shares his journey. And advice with you. So Fred Welcome back to women worldwide. Thank you do delighted to be back. Well, it is great to have you back because the last time you were here we were talking about crisis in reputation and your one of your other books and I'd like to just start to let everybody the liberal audience know maybe you can share just a little bit about how you. Chose this journey to the power of communication and words and and reputation. Will thank you I. Guess. The truthful answer is I came on that journey because I felt so powerless and helpless as a child. And that is I'm an immigrant to the United States, I came here as a very young child i. have an unpronounceable in inaccessible name I didn't speak English. I have very heavy accent in I. was immediately characterized as the other in by the time I was ten eleven years old I was the target of more than bullying but I have scars on my head from when I was hit with bricks and rocks and Boots. I was sexually humiliated. I. Was emotionally fortunate. And I felt completely helpless and Completed Tower Powell's. And thankfully I had no, you're of very gifted teachers who figured it out Who kept me back after school for an entire year ninety minutes day and taught me what I had missed in school called me English. Put me on a path forward by the time I finished with that particular teacher I was the top of my class. Grade I went to a very competitive high school and joined the debating team. By the time I was fifteen I was one of the debating champions in the New York City Catholic school system in by the tunnel a seventeen I was a page on the floor of the House of Representatives during Watergate summer my. End, and so my path has been on one of compensating. For feeling helpless and in particular feeling helpless because they didn't have words. I didn't have the ability to express myself and I've been fortunate to build a career over the last four years where I have essentially taken on the role of those teachers of my in. That is an all the work. I do I work to equip people to become leaders who inspire and change the world for the better whether do that in a classroom or do that with the client or idea through my writing or I do that through my public speaking it's about equipping people to be carriers of positive energy. Using verbalised energy to change people to change. What a story, what a journey friend and how grateful for the educators the teachers in your life and for equipping you and arming you with this ability to move forward. Truly truly inspirational and it's true. You are someone who really does help an educate. Know How these words matter and this this is your new book. You just wrote words on fire. So please tell us a little bit about this book. One of the things you know that I do is a professor of ethics and leadership communication at New York University in at Columbia University and one of the things I do in my scholarship. Is I studied patterns of influence and patterns of audience reaction to leaders. And I described those patterns in my teaching in my books and one of the things I've noticed over the last five years is a pattern that I some very, very trouble. Most of the work I do is helping leaders become better leaders to inspire for the good. But I also notice when leaders are using language in raise put people at risk. In about five years ago, I noticed a disturbing pattern and that was then candidate trump later president trump was using language in ways that I recognized as the kinds of language that preceded acts of mass violence onto including genocide and I began to be very concerned about that at the end post social media around that saying, Hey, someone's GonNa get killed if this doesn't stop. And then a tree of life synagogue shooting happened. And the shooter in the tree, of life, synagogue explicitly repeated language. That president trump had been using an intensified way of an invasion by a funded by Jewish bankers George Soros in particular that was intended to displace white people with Brown people and he used that language social media post he happens to be a white supremacist and he was inspired and motivated by the president in any way into the sitting on killed eleven people. The same week we saw the mail bomb. Using president trump's language against his rivals and critics. WHO The bomber Senate death threats to the people that president trump had been demeaning on social media then sent bombs. In both of those extended in the same week, which was ten days before two, thousand, eighteen midterms higher never random. So you are somebody who has studied patterns and you can recognize like you said, the the good and words that are incendiary. So what Have Ridge Person Do? How can they confront this type of language so that they don't get a cold into a negative pattern, but so that they can stay positive. I wrote the book in order to equip people to recognize better. To have the capacity to address the pattern and to confront the Steiger's whether the speakers are present united. States or a member of the school board or the school yard bully. They can take it really into your own life and personally locally but it but it requires recognizing the pattern and what I do in the book is I show the forms of language there twelve kinds of language that historically proceed acts violets one is to dehumanize people. Another is to demonize people and and one of the things that happens when a group of people is dehumanized or when rivals are demonize is lessons. Society's capacity for empathy in running previously would have been not only unacceptable but inconceivable become normalized. So let me just give an example from the book. The most powerful form of language that provokes violence is to dehumanized a group of people to call them animals to call them Furman to say that their presence among us is an infestation station. In the book documented how that was the first play, the Nazi playbook it was the first play in the Rwandan Hutu of demeaning of the to see that little to the massacre hundred thousand people in one hundred days and and they're the WHO referred to as cockroaches in Hutu ideology it said that a a cockroach cannot give birth to butterfly. And and what is the appropriate response to Vernon? To cockroaches while it's to eliminate. We saw the same thing in his country, the president referring to migrants seeking legal silent. Call them animals said that their presence among US was in infestation? Said Nancy Pelosi says stop calling animals. She's wrong. They are animals. They are animals will what Hadden's with animals? Put them engages in separate their offspring and don't return. In starting two and a half years ago, the public policy of the United States as announced by the attorney general as enforced by the secretaries, of homeland, security in health and Human Services and as triumph by the president. was to take legally. asylum-seeking migrants put them in cages, separate them from their children. We have five thousand children in this country who have not been reunited with their parents. The parents have been sent back to where they came from. I believe that is a crime against humanity. We now have news accounts of some of those miners having forced sterilizations. which is something else you do them. and. So there are consequences of dehumanisation need to take very, very serious. So what can mobile folks do? Remember one when you hear the humor's in wanting would you can sound the alarm? That's unacceptable. You cannot consider human beings to be less than. The other is to hold leaders responsible for the consequences of their language. So in the book I, for example, show a number of leaders. Who went over the line in demonizing and demonizing line, which when they were called on, they pull back. So for example, Senator John McCain. And Governor Sarah. They had ads only year saying that Obama senator bomb launched his campaign from terrorist living. They, he held around with terrorists. There was at the time the birther conspiracy saying that Obama secretly. Muslim and secretly Kenyan. What happened because of all of that is at at rallies of Senator McCain people who chaired Obama is a terrorist kill. The Secret Service deployed to investigate that. Will that was much for John Lewis Congressman? John Lewis of beloved memory, he held a public event wrote a public letter to Senator McCain Senator Euro friend of mine. But what you are saying what your campaign is doing is putting Senator Obama and his family at risk. You're were using right which that is reminiscent of George Wallace the governor of Alabama I was beaten by the State troopers in Alabama. Were playing with fire, which is where the title of my book came out on fire. With Fire. And I call on you to stop and if you do not stop light will hold you accountable for any hard. That would civic leaders need to do Colin Powell said essentially the same thing in the same week and that caused Senator McCain, stop to his credit he stopped. We saw something similar this past summer. And that is one of the patterns of dangerous language is the invention of an exaggerated crisis requires mobilization of force in during black lives, matter under of people we but but black lives better by the way twenty, six, million people on streets largest social movement in American history. But some people who are not black lives matter adherence began to commit violence against property even violence against police officers that led the president to call for the mobilization of the active duty military. In violation of law, he even deployed the Second Air Division to Virginia and Maryland and the troops were were incumbent year with fixed bayonets on their automatic weapons about to be deployed into Washington DC. The Secretary of Defense held a conference call the President and governors and he said don't worry governors don't remain ours. We, the military will dominate the battlespace that his American cities. And as soon as happened retired secretary of Defense James Mattis four-star marine went to the magazine and he denounced secretary aspirin he denounced president trump. And he said Mister Secretary of you're doing his both inappropriate and in constitute unconstitutional, it is dangerous. You cannot use the language of battlespace diplock about American cities you cannot send you military will dominate American cities they will not calling on you to stop that. Secretary Yes for Bechtel. surgery mad as attention to president, trump and MR president all of my time in the cabinet, I never want to use line which team night only to divide you are proposing is unconstitutional dangerous and our will not allow you to. Secretary Mattis as a four-star marine as a former member of the cabinet had standing to say that in the president seriously and he stopped. He stopped that particular thing. He tried to find some something else replacing, but we can we see that at the macro level. We can do that at the level of the school board to do that at the level of the mayor you do that the level of basketball coaches school when we see people humanizing demeaning and putting other people's lives and safety at risk, we can call attention to. Can Say I will not permit that an hold you accountable for the consequence. So unacceptable and accountable extremely important take it to your local take to your personal what's going on around you Fred when he say to people will say, Oh, this is this politics things go on in campaigns as has been happening for so long is it social media that is enlightening the average consumer the average person to be pretty to that we can all now have a voice and say unacceptable. I would argue that it is not politics as usual that we have never had a president. He uses old twelve forms of language that have the consequence of causing people to take up arms against others. We saw for example, when the president tweeted liberate Michigan and by the way protect our beloved second amendment. What do those two things have to do with each other? Armed militias. The State Capitol and we saw last week that number of them had met at the state capital in April following the president's tweets. Talk the president's denunciation of the Michigan Governor as inspiration to kidnap the governor to put her on a trial and to hang her. Young thankfully disrupted that before the kidnapping took place that is direct consequence of that kind of language, the game and is is in the humanizes arrival or critic. When when people say well, this is just politics. As you know, this isn't just politics. This is something more than politics and saw with Senator McCain. That when called on, he stopped with the president has been called on it in every single time it's called on. He. He intensified. Would I would say is in the book is aimed at the president is not the cause of this. The president is a consequence of interest that there are three trends that in kind of a braid I, believe have led us to this place. I is the change in television news for primarily public service role. To An entertainment role in that happen as family owned use organizations became part of entertainment conglomerates. This Mitch from journalists to sort of opinion hosts. It is a shift from the ratings don't matter to the ratings or every right. Even. Quote on the inventor of sixty minutes said back. Then nobody talked about ratings and television news today everyone talks about ratings. Don't you news? So I think it's it's the profit motive, the president talks about ratings. Zone. Events on television but that's one strain is television is migrated from service to spectacle. The other stream is. Hyper polarization of American colleges were compromises seen as he's and that plays right into television expect. A third is the decline in critical thinking skills among citizens. And I quote in the book the Roman. Catholic economist Theologian Michael Novak. Who says the first of all moral obligations is to think clearly. And we we as a society have seen critical thinking diminish to the point where it's no longer taught in schools to the point that there are some parts of the country where the political platform of the parties in power is to prevent teaching of critical thinking skills in school. Sir the Texas Republican Party from two thousand twelve affirmatively says we will not permit the teaching of critical thinking skills are slows just sink the consequences of that. You put those three things together as a braid, and that's what I think has led us to this point you add social needs mix you add the narrowcasting. The social media is a lot like Netflix. You'll like this news story you're GonNa like this news story pretty similar only seen things that you've self-selected you're in an echo chamber. In my reality. Reality or to complete. In would social media does is intensify is that they don't believe in is the cause of that breed that break preceded social media. Social media intensifies it and makes it much harder to figure out what the truth is. The truth is not oh absolutely and just on the note of the critical thinking. Being, clear, minded and open. It's it's more difficult with all of the technology and what's what's out there on social media and all the dopamine hits that were getting from our social networks to step back and to really think clearly. So social media sort of adds to that dynamic as well, and then if you add the bops that replicate that in in just extraordinarily volume in a very small amount of time. We we see people being bombarded her with false information and begin to believe it. Noticed in the last couple of weeks. Cornell. University's Alliance for Science published the study about a misinformation Runco bit. And it looked at one point one million stories, new stories in English between January and the end of May. and. It said that thirty seven percent of the one point one million stories ahead misinformation. Was Attributed to the President? And about fifty percent was probably sourced to the president because people would hewitt the presence and repeat it without naming. And and of all of the forms of misinformation about Kobe. The one that was the most prevalent three, hundred and eighty thousand stores was about miracle cures like hydroxy chloroquine lightness or or injecting disinfectants into your body. The second with about fifty thousand stories was about Covid is really a deep state plot to discredit the present. The third is encoded isn't real. It's Democratic Party hoax. Thousand. Stories. So people here that. It gets amplified on social media. They begin to behave in ways that are dangerous to themselves and to others. So for example, after the Woodward tapes revealed the President February the coveted airborne it's deadly it's five times more deadly than the flu. The president intentionally downplayed that spoke the opposite in his followers. Believe it. So even after that tape was reveal even after the tables public. President held a rally Michigan CNN arrived in and notice not your asks. Why aren't you wearing masks and they said decode is a hoax. Is Tangible consequence of language. That is used to mislead but people here the language and may act on it, and because they were bombarded on social media is a hoax. It's a hoax. It's his folks. When they're out in public they don't wear the masks when there s why not? Because it's hooks, right? We know it's not a hoax two, hundred, seventeen, thousand Americans. died of it seven and a half million Americans have contracted the disease. The president continues to say it's going to go away I- Jorde He's not. That that. There are tangible consequences. To leaders, US influence and followers will rely on the leader and that's why we need to hold leaders accountable for dangerous language and for misinformation the frankly when I wrote the book, I could document dozens of people who had been killed as a consequence of the president's language. We now have. Two hundred seventeen thousand people on Columbia University's endemic resource response initiative as calculating that hundred and fifty thousand would not have died from we followed CDC got. But the president does not follow CDC guidelines and he doesn't encourage it and he's interfered with a CD. Followers believe what they hear him say. And they're contracting. The disease in super spread revenge would solve the conflicts of the white. House we now have Florida the other day with no asking he is going to be doing a rally day over the next week with no masking in that is going to have for Republican consequences. Exactly Fred what do you think about a generational? So we have a millennials in the workplace Gen Z. in college. I know that I mean, just for my own research. That they care about empathy. that. Empathy is very important than they want to see empathy from their leaders. So how do you think that younger generations will they be able to confront the incendiary language? Well. The good news is younger. Generations not only care about empathy, but they also a care about each other. And and and I happen to have a grown kids in that generation and and I studied them carefully most of my graduate students are in that generation and I'm a I. Admire them greatly eerily do great things in. The world they're inheriting is a different world in the wants a at least that I inherited a baby boomer I remember when we were the young generation. I remember when we baby boomers were the rock and roll girl who the Beatles I grew up with with with rock and roll music, and they said, you're a hippie that. You're worthless. You're you're you're no good. No we're not just like rock and roll us. And and and you know here I am now an old fogy. In my sixties, but I still feel that spark of youth that I felt in in the early seventies your spark tail. But but but I so admire. This new generation. Because they're not only very informed with they are also. They approach life differently than he did or at least I don't see for others they approach life with the curiosity but also with a sense of boundaries, they have a work life balance. And they never had. Work Right in I joke that have defined my right knee, the proper work work balance. But my kids to their credit say, no, it's time for me to unplug. It's hard for me to go and do something fun and they're no less productive. In fact, in many ways, they're even more pro. Yeah because. Because touched. And they have found a way to enforce that bow. And and. least grow up unable to enforce that balance and for me but but it doesn't mean that's the only way to do these things the other the other thing about this generation is this generation grew up. where they're equal marriage rights for gay couples, they grew up where there's apparently. Greater and greater access to opportunity for immigrants or people of Color, for women in the workplace and and my generation grew up without was really controversial. And and for this generation's just to get him well of. Course we all have equal rights. Of course, we we all should have equivalent opportunities, and that's one of the things is very inspiring. Is this generation didn't curl with those enforced divisions to degree that my generation at least the idea of women working when I was in high school was just an awesome. But. These couldn't imagine. In which my daughter's didn't have exactly the same opportunities as if I had some. But, but that's not the world that I Exactly, well, we're looking forward to this fresh set of eyes. This useful thinking to move us forward. Definitely. What about just some parting advice fred to round it all out to let the women worldwide audience know what they can do how their words matter. Words have power. And, the that power can be used to call out the better angels of our nature, but it can also be used call word Stephen. And we need to be deeply intentional words nee- US so that we don't inadvertently call out someone toward Stevens, but we also need to be attentive to the consequences of other eagles language. And to the degree that we witness dehumanisation that we witnessed demonization that we witness keeble being put in a position where you're just their very existence is a threat to somebody else. Me Need to step in and say, no, not on my watch we won't let you do that. And the more we do that the more we leaders accountable the more the pendulum can swing back or civility back towards decency. We've gone way too far in the other direction and I'm confident that in the coming decade, we will be back to decency in back to civility, but it has to be intentional. Absolutely, Fred solent advice not on my watch words to remember in all of that. This is not acceptable and accountability. Thank you so much for sharing your journey for your thoughts, your book and all that you're doing and thanks for coming on the show we appreciate you. So Much And thank you to all of you for tuning into women worldwide wherever you are cleese, keep sharing your feedback and letting us know how you wore. If you'd like to get women worldwide updates, you can sign up on our website women, worldwide show dot com, and of course, reach out to me anytime. You know how to find me I'm on twitter and not breckenridge. Okay. Friends until our next episode police be well stake focus safe and energize.
137: Why Students Should Have November 3rd OFF to VOTE w/ Eric Reveno & Joe Kennedy
"All right pleased to welcome in in the special edition, a special edition of the good plenty podcast. We Have Holy Cross assistant coach Joe. Kennedy Georgia Tech Assistant Coach Eric. Revenue and we're GONNA talk about voting here. We're talking about voting because I. Think both of you are extremely passionate about this topic and Joe. I'm going to give you a chance to kind of I going your background about. Why have you on this? Because a lot of people are gonNA be looking, you'd say what the Hell does. He have a holy cross assistant on REV, people kind of know. He started this movement to have. Election, day off for college basketball teams, and it's really kind of taken off an love it. Or for voting on on election day, but Joe go ahead with your background a little bit, and why I have you on the spot. Now definitely definitely, and I jeff thanks so much for highlighting this such important issue obviously. unbelievable job in the last two weeks of with his platform, so he's he's done great i. I'm really grateful beyond you. Guys I think I've been interesting background in in both basketball, politics government in coaching in kind of our lives, all come together through my time. So for me, basketball in education I played it northwestern. Vehicle to kind of do some cool stuff. As a player there and one of the things I did was between my junior and senior year, had an internship. An internship in Washington DC for then Senator Obama at one of our coaches, Greg Robinson? Who's a dear dear mentor and friend of Mine It is Mrs Obama's brother, and so they kind of the OBAMAS had been around us a state senator, and he was elected in Oh four, so I had an opportunity. To do that internship at the ended the summer, I came back my last year at northwestern, just kind of had a burning desire to to to want to go back into that political world after spending that summer, and so in the spring a after my senior year I joined applied for job, actually during the campaign, and moved out to Iowa lived in Davenport for the next eight months in worked on the Iowa Caucus after the caucus I lived in Minnesota Nevada Ohio back to Iowa of for the general elections. I've been over the Hawk eye state. And the main thing I did on. The campaign in my job was to work in the field, and we worked at the grassroots level at the community level, really trying to register people to vote and then get him out to vote and get him to participate as well along that process in their local democracy, who so much of the decisions that are made that affect our lives happen at. At the local level, we always think about the presidential level. We think about these big elections every four years, but whether it's share for school board there or whatever the the process might be for your state That's important stuff, so we were on the ground that for for almost two years in nate, unbelievable friends in in have unbelievable memories from that. You know. We started as a big underdog. The President ended up ended up coming, coming from behind in Iowa and having a big win for Belt Sword I was fortunate enough to go. To work in the White House for almost two years. I worked in the Office of public engagement in our job within Iraq with organizations, associations kind of now elected officials that had platforms to try to promote a certain policies and actually did a lot of Work Monterey. My favorite parts of my portfolio was works. World is I handled all the championship visits and working into lay and professional sports organizations that also a high profile people to try to get out certain to engage be active whether let's move initiative or service initiative efforts in Obama was pushing with before deserve his administration for for two years before I came back to northwestern in two thousand ten to start coach. We'll circle back with you in a second job, but have you. You're passionate about this. You've kind of started this out with a tweet. Imploring other schools other programs I in college basketball to give kids November third off and no activities, not being and basically think educating kids as well not just giving them November third off, but educating you. You've gotTa Stamford degree I think you're pretty bright a think. So I, think you know what you're doing here. I'll give you the credit there, but but why what and I know. You had a conversation through my. With Trent Johnson that got you emotional? Why are you so emotional on this topic? Well. first of all thanks for having me on. At the start you said people might understand why I'm on and why coach Kennedy. You're not sure about goes Kenny now. They're wondering after Kennedy's introduction background. Wise coach Revlon. Coach Kennedy needs his own podcast. Wait Obama Northwestern Basketball Obama's but I. was you know surveys good Ol' Man Lake the Office of public engagement. Yeah, so here's Rev. What is REV, dot? He tweets he writes tweets. That's awesome. Hey, I'm on the tweets guy so but for me I think I'm a good juxtaposition or contrast Joe because. I'm your fifty four year old American white male that has had a good heart his whole life, but has not in. The the office of public engagement bless their hearts. They missed me. You know and hey I was not and you know. Whether it was so when all this stuff started going on as the George for Floyd, you know, and just just and I've seen it before in my lifetime. I head hasn't been the sand. Four Hundred Years of this is not I'm not I'm not someone who's going. What their life different than minor bike lies. They're different than mine. I knew it was I engaged a level that I needed to be and so. For me that was where my head was at when I had a team meeting on a week ago, this last Monday's ten days ago now and I got emotional talking there, and because here I am. Whatever it will, however you WANNA rate fifty four as older, middle aged. Whatever you WANNA do. This we haven't moved the. We haven't moved along enough. We haven't progressed in. What have I done about it 'cause I've talked to good. What have they done? I was just really heavy hearted hearing. These guys talk. Called Trent Johnson the next morning. Talk to him and I got emotional. They're and I might even get emotional. Now it's like. For these guys to have to for these guys that have been in the huddle with us been in the bubble with us for these guys that I love former players, former teammates, former colleagues I love to have to tell their kids something different than what I had to tell my kids when a police pulls you over it embarrassing a disgusting and and and and I had a three day period. There I couldn't get through saying that without getting emotional. That might be the you know and So So, so so that was sort of thinking and I and I woke up the next day and I, really with the with the with the self reflection of I'm tired of hearing about the problem. Let's talk solutions. What can we do in in on of personally thought what if I had voted if I had engaged I vote I voted some I'm a that but. But if I had really got engaged, or if and help my current, my student athletes at the time over my my twenty plus year career at Stanford as assistant for nine years at Cornell as a head coach for ten years now if I work with those students and engaged him in voting local elections all this stuff and made them engage register all that stuff. What would could make a difference? It definitely would make it because you know. Joe Has all the staff, but like what happens when you get young people voting just impactful for their life pack. And the NC double a college athletes leaders. The one thing I clarify like to me I love the fact that I go into that. How how things have just kind of dominoes have fallen because the idea is simple. My son said it best. He goes. No one said this before you know like. This isn't a novel. Down Double Approach, go back through my timeline on twitter I have a lot of ideas I think really good, but they don't go anywhere. I've had but this one. The timing and the the athletes are just craving for leadership. The athletes want to see action. They don't WanNa see. They appreciate the support. Because college athletes are good. And good gals, good APP. They're good people, and they appreciate a leader in their in their department at a- At the conference level and answer. They appreciate the fact that they say. Hey, we're listening. We hear you black lives matter that you know. They appreciate that that needs to be said or the same time. What's going to change and so so yes? November Thursday important, but where I have proposed what we're trying to do with all vote, no. No play you of the Hashtag Movement is trying to get NC Double A. Hall Mandated Holiday Day off, and and I've learned a ton since doing this about voter engagement about you know coach gay here. You know he's educated the heck out of me and talking to other people coaches come out of the woodwork have been passionate about this for a while, but we have to educate and for the absentee ballots stuff. It could be an off day. They might not need have that day. representative to vote, but but that day will be in the calendar what I want. What I WANNA do is to signal to the student athletes right now that the NC double a.'s got their back and we're trying to your part of the solution getting people voted. There's nothing is not political. It's fundamental. It's being American. It's voting you're you care? You're America. We teach in the schools. We teach life skills. We teach we teach you know. Maybe we could drop resume writing. Class I'm not sure resume right now. Days hasn't progressed. The resume workshop. Let's have a voting workshop you know and and. You know just just all that type of stuff, so I do. Get passionate about it and it's probably. Built up patriotism from not having done it and then literally. You know former Stanford Athlete. He told this on a group chat. He told me like a ton of bricks. I cried on this I couldn't tell us cried. The mode you with tears if it goes laughing, she can't do that when you actually cry. I know that I'm smart enough to know that but I actually cried when I up former player. At a Tolkien I could use his name four players effort forty year old guy now he told me about. That day, telling his kids. Eight year old kid how to handle a police stop. And and and so so I'm urging people. Are you know you're texting support? You're doing stuff. But I challenged myself to be uncomfortable and do something in my space. Make Kohl's and do stuff, and that's when the dominos third fallen coach few was fantastic from the jump, and that's where the NABC ball. Jamie Dixon calls me, and and and and he's real supportive Paul Hewitt, talking to him former leaders, you tread Johnson and stuff disguise. Get behind it and last thing on the on my spiel here. Is that Georgia tech been amazing I text the question. You know this okay, and they said run with it. I coach Collins I did on Tuesday morning and I didn't have to sell it again I. I didn't do anything. Excite you, know, coach, Collins, a football coach and President Cabrera. The leadership is bit inspiring or a D. Todd stands berry inspiring. To be at a public school like this in Georgia Tech, the pride in Georgia prides itself on. Elite elite. Engineering Education every degrees of Bachelor of science and we turn out I don't want to miss. Speak their some historically black colleges at maybe trump more. Engineers, but we are doing our part as diverse camp is I love the campus to be at this campus. At this time with this leadership has been really I'm invigorated by because college kids give you the Hoke College. Kids give you hope were in college. Because we're hoping the NC double A. could make a change and get it on the robot, so I'll just leave you here to talk with Joe. That's all I got to say now. Good. That's all I got. That's all you. That's my brain dump. There's nothing left in there. Well I before I get to Joe here. So what have you heard anything from the answer though Blair of? Have you heard anything I mean what what are they waiting for here? Thank all right. We're good November third. Let's clear it nothing on November third I had this huge desire exist. Go and do something so Some good friends started talking to me about strategy and I would just swinging I'm just not I'm just asking people. Let's go talk to your compliance. I'm just Kinda. Bump in through the walls now I've kind of and we got up a petition with over thirty seven hundred names as of today I think lots of athletes, mostly athletes, administrators, and stuff athletic that the advice I got early was support. You're going to need from the coaches association the student athletes. Rules can change a couple of different ways for the ages to go great idea change is asking a lot, and so so but I'll put a little heat on them, and we'll get the conversation going. Appreciate here to talk about it, but I feel like lead conference to take a lead we need. We need an and Georgia. Tech is done apart. They committed on Tuesday I, said the sex out on Wednesday they committed said nine schools are going to have the day off. And what's happening now is schools are saying they're going to have the day OSS. And then feeling like they're done, I wanna go for the whole thing. I wanted next two years from now. I want this rule. The rule book so people are working around it and talking about it for years six years, and so I just. But what has to happen would ask happened in my understanding is for the best most likely ways you can go up through the student Athlete Advisory Committee Sac and those people been great, and it could go up through there or could go through league college, or so if you're listening and you WanNa have make it happen. A conference office needs to step up and propose it, and it needs to needs to happen and and. I feel like we're all here. You Know A. And and Joe's one of the best voices in the group, but we're acquire, and we're on the voice, and we're waiting for charity. Turn you know, and we're just we. We needed charity, so then we can then vote on it, and then Nobel Joe. How how do we? How do we do this before four? Here's some numbers that I've got forty six percent. Percent Of those eighteen to twenty nine years old voted in the two thousand sixteen presidential election as you said, it's not just about the presidential election Yesterday we saw stories in in Georgia in Georgia. Wherever's right? Now that people are waiting for five hours to be able to vote How can we? How can we do this? What is the best way? Beyond an including what revs doing and what we're all pushing for within. The answer to play right now to get young people to vote. I think there's a couple of things I mean I. Think you have to tackle their smile. Young people think are there about voting and I. Think the first one that is really important news at a thing that their voice isn't going to be hard, right? Voting's not important. Farthest thing from the truth, right voting is very important. just a couple of anecdotes in the last couple years. You know in two twenty sixteen Wisconsin. Pennsylvania and Michigan those three states, which basically decided the election were decided by eighth out than eight thousand. Write that down by county. You're talking a couple. Hundred votes in each of these counties in those three big states how many student athletes go to school in those three states or could absentee vote by mail? In those three states? Your vote has a big impact on twenty seventeen. There was a race in Virginia for the House of delegates where it was actually a statistical tie, it had to go to judge law in Virginia, says we go and pick a name out of a hat. So the person that was elected to the to the delegates in the state of Virginia was picked out of a hat and we have. Colleges and universities close by at district, definitely young men and women participate in athletics across the country that are from that district. They all vote by mail, a few a few teams in a vote, a few athletes vote sudden nat election isn't isn't isn't satellite so I. It's very important in your, voice. It matters. Your vote counts I. Think the other thing that you know in in coach. Mentioned this coach Nelson from Holy. Cross did an amazing job setting up our team. We had a very felt call with a lot of young guys coming in this year. A lot of guys that are just becoming voting age eighteen years old. And is really the first time in their lives at you're dialed into the emotions of the moment and a lot of them talked about voting, and that's really what got me thinking about it. After that team call that Echo Nelson lead tangle back to I had lived for four years in my political world, and when I came away from it was the next step of this is taking action in voting is action. That's it's action kid WANNA have a way to be involved. You gotta go. Tell your voices are. Always you're young. People say well I'm not being one of the ways you heard is by casting about. And coach mentioned in earlier, our student athletes are leaders and role models on campus. You WanNa. Take Action. Go recruit people in your dorm. Though recreate recruit friends from from from your your neighborhood, your community guy. He played high school ball at like. There's a lot of ways for athletes to take action in voting a key part of that. And then lastly voting symbol. You GotTa Register. Once. You Register you'RE GONNA have the option to early vote. In different states, you have an option for absentee vote by mail were then shown up November third sometimes I think it can be perceived it as as a very complicated process. Now different states have different. Laws that you have to follow is not uniform, but it simple. You Register your options to vote. I think another important thing on that on the simplicity of it. Once you vote once. All the data shows particularly when you're in college or college voter the rest of your life. You'RE GONNA be more consistent voter. To be more engaged in your local community and Moxie and there's nothing that's said nothing more patriotic than that. And I think that that's really a important to establish that now at this moment. And then there's you know a a tremendous amount of great I've talked about this. There's so many great resources out there from. Partisan, non political organization. What are those? This is what your kids that are. That are watching this? Where should they go to get? Information get it fairly simple, not be overwhelmed. So for first place I know a lot of the universities and colleges like Holy Cross. Does we partner with Turbo Vote Vote Dot Word Turbo Vote Dot Org in less than two minutes. You can go on there and registered. So. Got Kids on your phones all the time. Take two minutes of your day. On your phone registered vote Turbo Dot Org. For coaches and administrators that are looking for more information on even a student athletes that more information teachers information. Rock. The vote has been in this. World germ of youth engagement since nineteen ninety. They've done a tremendous job. They've got great resources on their website. And lastly. There's a great a new organization which Chris is actually really involved with. When we all vote? And that's also been led by other high profile. People like Mrs Obama. Tom Hanks and and many others but I didn't dozer turbo. Vote is a great way to two minutes registered, and you can figure out if you're absentee in in kind of what the process is going to be rock, the vote died or in when we all vote dot org are great resources. You can register their, but it's also just a great way to learn more if you want and getting to this issue. When most people try to lose weight. They think exercise whether they actually start exercising. Not The results are normally the same either way. I say the same because losing weight is all about nutrition. With awakened one eighty weight loss, you'll receive customized nutrition plan weekly. One on one coaching and the option receive eighty percent of your daily foods to help. 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We see that NHL NBA. They're coming soon, so make sure you got a good look at both. So. You're ready as soon as the action starts, visit the website or use your mobile device join today. To receive your new welcome bonus, and check out all the action that online your online wagering solution i. mean you can see it now after after you know the protests and obviously what happened to George Floyd that people are are certainly more passionate and want to do something you know you hope that young kids right now are are are more motivated than ever in again to do something to to kind of take it into their hands. Rev what else? Can we do on college campuses, is it? Is it enough to just? Show them how to vote and even Pat Scary at thousand. He did a couple of years ago where he had his entire team. He basically I don't know if he made them register I I'm not sure that far, but but he basically made the him register to vote. Is that enough or can we do more? Is there a? Is there another step to educate them beyond that? Like I was saying you know in my world? I've seen it Georgia tech by Georgia. Tech's having those conversations on campus and our president said we don't want to be an athletic initiative. Let's make it across the whole campus. Let's have these conversations Coach past, nor got it right away. Head coach here for those Georgia Tech and he's he's. He quickly recognized by all were doing and coaches. Get this. We just gotTa change the mindset all. You're doing by giving them the off day. For the answer layoff day is. In the game, but what we have to do is and prepare for that game, and so the stuff you're talking about the stuff that that Joe. Live you know and understand really deeply is is getting people out to vote making it simple with information for him. where like just those lists of. Turbo, vote? On Dot Org those places to go register getting that out there, giving them reminders on dates engaging process. We've had coach passer the next day after we that I sent the. I, we said the mail an hour and a half later. He had a six point plan that was gonna be just what you're talking about fourteen. He is reaching out to I don't WanNa. Give away some names but names. It made the guys excited like this person could come talk to us or did. Zoom call with this person and coaches are great. Figuring out a strategy and every campus is GonNa have to figure out a strategy impact their space. And and one of the things I was saying was the waiver a waiver like for in season sports like football volleyball. If you have say like I heard a pack. Twelve team has an exhibition games scheduled that day and I I was in my talking. I, was thinking I was like well. You have a game November third. Let's go ahead. Make that of bring out the vote game. Let come in who wears a sticker and you can still played a mandatory off day, but the you know. We can make it an automatic waiver if you show a logistical and educational plan for your team, so you say look. I got fifteen players twelve of them. You know here's what we're doing instead. And then you have a plants, you can have waivers. There's four hundred and sixty thousand NC double A. Athletes, four, hundred, sixty, thousand, visual, one, two and three athletes. And and. According to Google, NCWA hasn't avenue fact checked at so if you got a fact, check on that. You know your standards here on the gunman pods here. Careful, Google, yeah. But. Had close to half a million you know if if fifty thousand hundred thousand waivers in your. But they're having those conversations two four six years down the line, but educational programs coaches, being being creative with it, and just thinking about what and also the athletes have to take it on. The are SACRA again. The student advisor Afternoon Athletic Advisory Committee to the ACC at the St sat conversation they started talking about. Let's have instead of I voted stickers. Let's have I voted backpack tax, and so all the ACC. Athletes give backpack tags that they wear for the year you know or In Santa's, but the, but that that's INSANA stuff, but the education piece the local stuff. The judge stuff the sheriff stuff. The haven't people come in and talk and. is going to be, key. So Lebron. Joe tweeted last night after. The incident in in Georgia and even Vegas I think they waited for four or five hours as well I mean it's all cross country that. Voting is is. Structurally Racist Is. There's some truth to that I. Mean you've been in this? You've been ended up the ground floor. How do we change that is there? I mean again like it. It's so strange so when I go to vote. Here in newburyport Massachusetts. It takes me like two minutes I walk in I don't even have to show ID I mean. I I I. Don't understand the voting and how easy it is for me I'm looking, and unlike it takes five hours in Li-. Like how is this possible right now? Know, it is a shame that across this country, so many states make it challenging for people to vote. It really is I think what that raises more awareness on is like coach, said a game scheduled. It's all the work leading up to that and I. Think sometimes you know voting again. It is so important, so it's a simple act, but it's so important. It requires some that work unfortunately, get it. You know some stage. Do Not Make It. As easy as others unfortunately nat rate national conversation for us to have but it goes back to. You want to change the laws in your state on voter. Registration is what you gotta go vote. You gotta get people into leadership positions that believe the same things you believe that our passionate about those issues in at the local level in the state of Georgia for example. was just the governor's race it a two years ago, a lot of elected officials were were were in office. They had the ability to to make changes and I. Think one thing you learn that young person. I learned on the campaign after the Campaign Bat. I think as you get older, you get a little more sensitive which is at elections have consequences, and if you sit out election, you don't participate. It's ally. You can certainly still have a voice in America to talk about the things you don't like, but you didn't participate and I think we can drive anything home at this moment with the emotion of it, and the obstacles are definitely ahead. You gotta get in the fight. You gotTa Take Action. You gotta participate no matter what side of political. and if you WANNA, make changes you gotta get in and vote and and and try to get people elected. That are going to reflect those same values you share. And that's where I exactly right and I to me. That was part of my epiphany that. No matter what you think wherever you are, you start unraveling the onion a little bit figuring okay, what do I do what to do and get involved? Engage in educate on those things is is really important but the more you go down like it all comes back to. You got you got to vote. and. We've got to lay that foundation and as coaches. That's what we do. You know, even the judicial. You got your breasts discovery dish. Those are impacted by elected officials and yesterday. The poll was forced to close your at seven I went at in the morning. and it took me an hour twenty. which I thought was reasonable. and social distancing line I thought was re tomorrow. Wife goes back to the same polling place at supposed to be at six in goes at. At seven and they had adjusted kept it open till nine they changed, but by judicial order they changed it, so there's a balance of what happens and things you. If anything comes back voting and it's such to me. What were really just I think there's a great opportunity to insulate to make this change because it's not political. It's not about any group getting more. It's about your. It's fundamental. It's like just a fundamental American piece of it that to help to to to devote engage. I I think Agana kids. at that age, the presidential elections one thing right they. They know they're watching. That I it's on their phones. It's wherever right trump by you're hearing that everywhere, but I think a lot of kids enjoy. You can speak to this probably overwhelmed by. The state elections in everything. That's going on locally. Yep in Qatar we get them. That Info I. Don't think it's wrong to be able to provide them. Objective information about both sides I. Don't think it's like anything else you guys give give your players to scout right? You're not going to overwhelm and give him twenty five pages, maybe unless you're Tom Cream Georgia but you're. You're gonNA give them as much as they can handle your. Give them both sides. I. Don't think there's anything wrong with that and trying to literally give them all the information, but is that. Is that going over over bounds right now or people are GonNa look at that and say under. Do you can't do that as coaches because that's of obscuring it one way or the other? You know I would say that. That's a good question I. I think for right now is why coaches on a great job was his his the momentum. He's built now. Is that no, you go ahead and register now. You're going to have time to become a little better educated on what your local issues are. You know not? Yes, there's. All, the local issues are local candidates are going to be running in the races in Massachusetts. But I WANNA. Take some time. It's closer to the election to to to look through that so I think there are some responsibilities to help provide again. Kids, young young men and women with the resource and say hey. Here's a great place to go WANNA know who's on the ballot. Turbo Vote Dot. Org Hotel you evidence on the Val. The ballot in your in your particular particular district. Here's some other resources. Coaches can share to kind of educate the student athletes on those particular candidates were ballot initiative that. And I and I looked at that Y- Two nights ago and yesterday morning some, so I just clicked on the generic stuff you know, and it was a statement from the candidate you know, and you're just you know so. You could just have a team meeting print that. And each candidate gives what they're. You know you just have them. Read it. You know just short talk about her. We we've talked about here. George you can have you could have. Each coach could take their own thing. Where you know, you can have a coach a. you can have a student at the present an issue that's going to be voted on talk about it. You know and then opinion start getting into it and I mean listen got the candidate you know at the local level. Why not get the candidates to speak to everybody? You can go on. Zoom obviously won't be. Able to do, you're able to kind of talk to one another, but what I'd have. The candidates present to however many student athletes are at Georgia Tech, and then you get Georgia and you get all of all of those You know the the state. Schools involved right now. We talked in. We didn't talk that you bring the two great ideas. Because I talked to Lloyd Pierce Land Hawks head coach and he's talking about. What can they do and get? Bring out the vote registered to vote Atlanta schools and do something, and that's merging with the idea. We had Monday Monday. We met on the Department so this impromptu tax task. Force and talked about well. We can't bring in one side will bring in both sides forever. If we do something like that, you know you could have a charismatic young purse person come in and talk you know a pro athlete who's passionate about being engaged and have them sort talk someone that speaks to the athletes, but when you start talking the issues were we're talking bending over backwards to to present both sides because we were. We want to there's there's certain I think leadership at this point has to be able to differentiate between fundamentals, decency character right without getting political, and it's a slippery, so get started saying right and wrong these days truth. In fact, it gets confusing quickly. I'm not naive, but as where we are and our role in helping these young people create positive habits for life we we need to push it down to the least controversial sort of concrete base habits. You know it's like. You know 'cause for me for the people near ship. J. Just having a good heart is in good. It's like that weight loss where you're thinking about losing weight, but don't change your habits. You know like Hey I've had losing weight. I've had it in my heart for twenty years. I've had that, but I haven't done anything. This is the same thing like what's do something about. This is just an educational pieces so sound. And I'll just want to add one thing to your question, Jeff Bridges. College campuses have other resources that are there for student. Athletes Take advantage of it. I think sometimes coaches and his players law kind of getting our athletic silo, and we don't realize that guess what they're doing. A candidate forum on campus, and some of these may be local candidates, or some of these issues are being discussed at the campus level I think for coaches. There's also you know within our staffs kind of looking okay. What resources are actual campus or in our city? Our town that we can just kind of. We don't need to reinvent. The wheel is a lot of people that work in this space twelve months at a year that do really good work. All right so to to a cliff notes version here at the end of this Go out number one registered to vote. Number, one or any any kid anybody who's WHO's listening number two have we gotta get a conference? To put out legislation a proposal wrench. Right And if you're if you're a coach that means talking to your coaches, association your compliance person. If. You're a student athlete. It means go into your sack represented your student Athlete Advisory Committee every everyone on college campus knows that that is talked to those people and sort of look around and find your channels that that have influence if you know someone on. Your. Coaches Association Committee. You know in your leadership committee. And then then if you know someone, the conference office, make sure they're hearing about it. Just in, it could happen later. It could happen next year could go move onto a regular cycle. Is legislation but I think right now. I, don't know what everyone else watches on TV I. Don't know what everyone else is feeling. But I feel like. The world, the country can use US having some leadership. The country could use US showing some posit and most importantly, our student athletes could use us doing something positive and making a step, saying boy. That's a great idea. We're putting together something we'll look at that next year is a matter. Listen No matter your political I'll as you said earlier. Joe No matter where you stand. Nevada Line voting. I is a right. It's something we've all been blessed with. Take advantage of it. I didn't do it when I was younger. I did not I'll be completely honest. I didn't and I regret it, and now you know what I I am going to make up for. I, AM GONNA start to. Do More due diligence into local elections, and how it affects my community, obviously at a national level. Yes, I'm more well burst because you're more passionate about you. See it more, but it could something that Every especially with the way the world is right now with the way our country is. It's it's a tangible way to have an impact. Yes, it's only one vote but if if you're one vote and you get somebody else. That's that's one more vote may get somebody else, and that's how this works and to me. It becomes the thing to do. Go out and vote and bring bring your your other twelve players on your team whether it is an absentee ballot whether it is in person whatever it is, go out. Make your vote count and. I appreciate you guys coming on, and I think just kind of given some insight. Give some passion. something a little bit different in think again we can all agree on and listen to me. are votes. You make a difference they do. Thank. You very much I as you tell I'm focused on this night I've been really encouraged by the amount of support and the optimism of of of of the college athletes is support excitement about it because people were. This is not just GonNa Pass isn't this? This isn't a summer of activist. We WanNa make some lasting impact. We WanNA WE WANNA. Keep bringing this this proper alignment that we're going through and our focus to make real. Change and give people out engaged difference. Joe Thanks. Any final thoughts. I would just say. Thank you for helping to raise awareness. I think that's one of the biggest things we gotta do right now, and and we've all interacted with unbelievable student athletes across the country. They're leaders. They're they're going to find their own ways to impact change and bring change about this is just one of the most concrete ways. That would gets me excited. I'm a lot older than I was when I joined the campaign in seven, so seeing that next generation of young people. They're really passionate right now. They got great. Leader is greatly some routes and that really. Makes me very optimistic in this tough tough painful time. We got some great. Young people are need this country. Thanks guys I appreciate it. be safe. Keep this thing going, and and hopefully we can you know not only may change, but sustained change I think that's that's the biggest thing right now in our country. Because we need all the help, you can get right now. Thank, you very much. Take Care Guys.
Bonus: Hillary Clinton
"The. I'm honored to be here with a guest with a better firsthand understanding of women running in presidential politics than any other person Secretary Hillary Clinton thank you so much secretary. Hey, thank you, emily. We're honored to be here in your office today. So, you were the most qualified person to ever run for president given how qualified you are and given that I could have this baby at literally any minute do you feel qualified to deliver this baby with help? You are absolutely and I'd prefer that you not because I'd like you to be in a better environment than my office conference room but the tables biggest. Kitchen so we can heat some water. So if it happens just let me take off. The perfect I feel like naming rights are up for grabs viscous relay. What number is this? This is baby number three. Yeah. So we boy and a girl. So we kind of top names you have. You have a list. We have a list we're going into the hospital with a list is what we're thinking. Okay. Yeah. But we're also feeling like winner of Iowa caucus baby names like they could make I wouldn't call the baby caucus, i. I'm sorry I. I don't think that works really. Well. Okay. I'm going to take that Bruno would do that and primary also I wouldn't I wouldn't put high on the list. I prefer primaries to caucuses, but I still wouldn't name child for either. So in. True named the baby primary. I'd probably have to move to either Layer Brooklyn. Brooklyn for Schumer. I created this podcast because a lot of people were looking for substantive digestible ways to understand the presidential primary. It's very, very hard and a piece that was so incredibly important to me was that all of our experts are women. Because even though there are women running at the top of the ticket all down the ticket the commentary around politics is still about sixty three percent male and given the fact that voters. This year will be majority women. We should be getting our wonky substantive information from women. Imagine that Oh my goodness what a radical idea. So you know it's not great, but it's gotten better. Yes. I'm wondering how you've seen the narrative change as we have more women running commenting as the reporters, it's no longer the boys on the bus given your campaign how have you seen the narrative with more women controlling the narrative writing the stories? Well, I do think there has been changed not enough but at least to the point that you you feel that people are more self aware when they fall into the old stereotypes and double standard caricatures. So that's a big step forward because honestly in my campaigns I think. People could have taken lie detector tests and passed by being asked. Well, don't you think it's a little sexist to only comment on how women candidates look and never say a word about the men candidates clothing. So I think people are more aware I. Think we still have work to do, but we're making progress. So you have this incredible book out Gutsy woman you talk in the book about being a reference for young women based on your own scrapbook. I love this earned scrapbook throughout your career and as we mentioned, I'm raising a daughter Chelsea is raising a daughter in Tucson, right? In something that I think about a lot is how do we raise feminist sons? It feels like books like yours are a an excellent scrapbook for everyone for all of our daughters to have examples but how race feminists sons It Look I. Think you're asking the right question because even though we want women to keep breaking through and standing up and being their own gutsy selves, we also want to create a world in which both women and men are comfortable with equality and with the idea that you know be whatever you want to be and don't have to be held back by society or in any other way. Deterred from pursuing your dreams. So look I really that it starts in the home and parents, grandparents, aunts, and uncles you know need to be lifting up both boys and girls you know not only by encouraging girls to do things that. Test their athletic ability or their competitive desires. But also by building kindness and empathy with both their sons and their daughters and obviously in in our family with our. Two boys and one girl There's a lot of that. A lot of very conscious thinking is i. know there is with your family about how do we ensure that we're not imposing? Gender stereotypes do we open up the world to both our sons and our daughters or grandsons and granddaughters? So it starts in the home, and then of course, the schools have a big role to play and they're still a lot of data that boys get called on. Moore boys are considered to be you know more rambunctious sore more. Active so that they are treated differently. So we just all have to take a deep breath and say look we're raising. Sons and daughters to become the kind of men and women that will value equality empathy, kindness, bravery, resilience, and be grateful for They have in life. So this show is about the primary. So I do want to ask you a question about the state of the race we can't. What is happening today with impeachment so you know this better than anyone. How. To any of the candidates run against the knowing now that the Republican Party has basically sanctioned interference from foreign governments I think we are facing. Very serious obstacles to a free and fair election. We didn't know in two thousand, sixteen everything that they were doing. Now we know and we see it all over again. So I think there's three areas that we have to focus on. You have to focus on voter suppression and voter purging. We're doing a better job this time in bringing lawsuits and changing legislation and regulation to try to get an even playing field. But the other side is determined to shrink the electorate to eliminate as many Democrat leaning voters as they possibly can, and nobody can shut their eyes to that. The second is what happens on social media both the hacking and theft of information that is then weaponized and all of the false fake news propaganda that is targeted to people predominantly, but not exclusively on facebook. And then third we have to now against trump based on his record. You know when he ran four years ago he could make all kinds of promises like, oh, we're going to get rid of Obamacare, but we're going to give you something that's the best in the world. Baloney never happened. They tried to destroy the affordable care act and substitute nothing for it. We now have the opportunity to hold him accountable on healthcare on climate on everything that we can see going off the rails. That's going to have to be a campaign, run both on offense and defense your documentaries coming out there who documentary s right off the trailer. You definitely got some attention recently for some conversations you had around it. Yes. One of the things that you said in that in the interviews around that was that senator. Sanders did not have a lot of colleagues in the Senate that was interpreted by many saying that nobody liked him at all. There's such a big magnifying glass on anything. You say surrounding him I mean, did you expect to get that kind of result you and you know it like a year and a half ago it was fifteen seconds and a four hour documentary. But I think people need to have to really think hard about who can beat trump and it's not the popular vote as I learned to my own. Disappointment I got more votes than anybody except Barack Obama, wants So it's not the popular vote. It's the electoral college and those are going to be tough states to win So I just want us to be really focused on winning. That's all I care about. So on that point, I mean Senator Sanders does have a lot of here's a very dedicated base of support whether he's the nominee whether he's not the nominee. He does have a big hand. He's a lot of influence. So what do you think that he can do whether he's the nominee or not nominee to help get to that point of unifying people to against trump we can do it for one. That's not our experience from two, thousand sixteen and that was the point I was making. I know what? It's like to lose a hard fought primary I got more votes than Barack Obama. No eight but fewer delegates I immediately ended my campaign I endorsed him appeared with him I went to the convention where my delegates really wanted to cast their votes for me because they'd worked really hard for me and I said, no, I'm going to go to the floor of the convention. I'm GONNA move his nomination by acclamation than I did one hundred events for him. Okay. Contrast that to what did not happen in two thousand sixteen and that cannot happen again, i. don't care who the nominee is. I don't care as long as somebody who can win and as long as somebody who understands politics is the art of addition not subtraction you have to bring people together build a broader base and then take on a really well organized well, funded Republican campaign. That's how we're going to win I actually in two thousand eight had a was very undecided between you and Barack Obama, and actually ended up supporting him in the campaign but I think because of how much work you did to bring people along that I Barely, remembered it to be honest afterwards, it was felt. So positively about both of you that I laughed going into the general election feeling very about the process that is the goal. The goal is hard fought primary get a nominee close ranks try to beat the other guy, and that's what you're supposed to do there must have been an actual conversation I mean you must. Have had an actual conversation with at the time Senator Obama and then with senator. Sanders. In two thousand, sixteen I mean I can't imagine being on either side of that conversation but you were on both sides. How did that conversation differ? Oh, it's like night and day you know I had served with Barack in the Senate, and so I'd campaign for money ran for the Senate. Him. I also knew that he would be a good president and that he could win and so when we met in early June, after all the primaries were over and as I got more votes but fewer delegates. So therefore, let's try to bring the Party together. We had a couple of hours of a sit down conversation just the two of us. And went over everything challenges from the campaign on his side my side, what we were going to do to win what I could do to help him. It was A. It was a very honest, very open, very positive conversation. So fast forward I mean you had unfortunately a very different outcome in the two, thousand, sixteen primary where I won by four million votes I won overwhelmingly in delegates. There were still question about. Who was going to be the nominee but unfortunately, you know his campaign and his principal supporters were just very difficult and really constantly not just attacking me. But my supporters we get to the convention they're booing Michelle Obama John Lewis I mean it was very Distressing and such a contrast between what we did to unite in await and all the way up until the end. A lot of people highly identified with his campaign were urging people to vote third party urging people not to vote. It had an impact and I, am somebody who thinks you know the Democratic Party is light years better than Republican Party. I'm not going to say it's perfect because no political party or candidate is but just look at the price we've paid for a trump presidency and it's unthinkable to me that. Any carrying smart concerned American citizen WHO considers him or herself on the Left of our politics would want to see four more years of this kind of very destructive presidency. Well, it's been really interesting turn of events in the last couple of weeks Michael Bloomberg jumping into the race and people are very divided whether they think that he's the saviour or the spoiler. And even in recent polling, they're showing that he's number two in Florida as a key state. So he's having an impact me what do you think about him jumping into the race, his strategy of skipping the first four state primary states? Well, he has a unique position because he is able to get into the race late and I think as we're speaking today, he's spent somewhere upward of two, hundred, fifty million. So he's got the resources and he's got a good record to present to the democratic electorate and. You know he has made some real strides. He's not in the top tier nationally. But in a few places as you say, he's got some real traction. I think we'll know what's going to happen until people start casting their votes. So we're on the verge of the Iowa Caucus. You know this better than anyone is someone who not only ran the Iowa caucus but one, what did you actually do the night before the Iowa caucus what what are you reading? Oh, my gosh, we weren't reading. We were we were. Travelling we were going everywhere in Iowa having last minute events we were on the phones we were having strategy meetings. The caucuses are incredibly unpredictable. It's really hard to poll caucuses because at the end of the day, it's not a primary you don't know for sure who's GonNa make it out if the weather's bad or if there's some last minute glitch and a lot of people who would vote in a primary can't come out on a evening because they work night shift or they have childcare issues or whatever the problem might be. So it's very difficult to figure out who's actually GONNA show up and this particular caucus they've got new rules they've got technology I think it's GonNa be. Quite unpredictable I was actually out there in Iowa in two thousand sixteen and spoke to a lot of people who wanted to go to the caucus on your behalf. But had exactly those problems they had childcare. They had elder care that transportation it is a very undemocratic way of picking a nominee I love Iowa, love the people in Iowa but I go to a hospital and I speak and I'd meet a bunch of nurses and they'd say, Oh, we wish we could caucus for you but you know we don't get off until it just makes no sense and so who knows what's going to happen but I'll be happy to see the primaries dart rolling around because that's a much. Easier way for people to participate and for the outcomes. Clearer. Do you have any advice for the candidates? This is their Geo TV like this is their last weekend candidates based on your experience and you you just have to work to the last Last dog dies as we say, you got you just have to be out there. You've got you've got an organization it. It's been built over many months. You hope it can produce It's it. It's a nail biting time this last three or four days before people gather on Monday night, and you also have to be aware of any kind of shenanigans. Who aren't really eligible Iowa voters trying to show up at the caucus sites where people giving wrong directions to try to you know send some people often one part of the school where it's being held instead of the other. So there's a lot of planning that goes into trying to prevent. It going off the rails in certain places. So it's it's a complicated undertaking. Do you have a a betting pool at like the Chappaqua? Curls do you have your money on anyone Iowa or for the nomination? No I really all I care is we nominate somebody you can win the electoral college that's my bottom line I hear that. The national security establishment is losing its grip of shifting global realities in the preference of American voters. The Eurasia group foundations new podcast series. None of the above goes beyond conventional foreign policy wisdom to offer new ways of thinking about the future of America's logo. Role. None of the above host Mark Hanna who worked on the Kerry and Obama campaigns sits down with leading global thinkers, journalists, activists, and historians going beyond the usual foreign policy suspects to find new answers and new ideas to guide in America increasingly adrift in the world. I had the pleasure of working with mark years ago and thrilled that he has taken his talents to the podcasting space. Episodes will cover everything from nuclear restraint to the US Saudi corporate connection. None of the above is produced by the Eurasia Group Foundation a nonprofit founded by Ian Bremmer and dedicated to bringing nontraditional voices into the foreign policy conversation, listen and subscribe to none of the above wherever you get podcasts. I want to switch gears a little bit. So in the last election cycle, I worked with an organization here in New York called Eleanor's legacy right and I worked with women candidates helping them to form their narrative about how they were running why they were running. One of the things that we spent a lot of time talking about was how to balance strength and warmth. It feels like a particular challenge women I'm wondering as you've seen more women. Do. You think that that becomes easier with more women how is that manifesting itself? Emily I think it does become easier and if you look at what happened in two thousand eighteen, which is a great test for how we win in twenty twenty. Lots of women ran. They were all sizes and shapes and backgrounds, and they had a range of experiences to. Present to the voters we you know flipped Republicans seats. And it was a great effort by Nancy Pelosi and the House Democrats to both select candidates to train them to support them, and then to come up with a winning strategy I, think the more women who are on the stage The more people will see that just like men come in all sizes and shapes on different hair styles and things. So to women and I think that begins to sort of dull or. Eliminate the prejudices or the bias or the questions about women and I'm hoping that in this upcoming election, we do everything we can at all levels of politics to recruit and run more women We have to make it more normal and we have to get voters to think about. Well, you know this person can actually do a good job for me as opposed to you know she's got little kids should she be running or? I don't like her hair whatever it might be. You'd said that you hope that the media was as sexist this presidential cycle but that you've been disappointed. Yeah. Yeah. Do you have some examples of how you've been disappointed look I think that it's just a run of the mill commentary that you see or hear there are a lot of examples. Where women who have been aggressive in a debate, for example, are put down or criticized for being aggressive where women who try to. Lay out a whole agenda answer. Specific questions are then criticized for being specific or overprepared for example, I. Mean there's just this whole mindset about. Double Standards and holding women to a much. Tougher Standard than any of the men and so I think it's gotten better as I said in the beginning but I think we still have a long way to go. Do you think that at least the commentary around your presidential run would have been different had there been more women in the field or he's a how would it have been different? I don't know I think it. We're seeing it being. Somewhat, slightly more different this time around. So that's all to the good that we have. You know more women out there. I was really shocked in one of the interviews you did for this book for Gutsy women when they asked you the gutsiest thing you've ever done was and you said to stay in your mirror personally personally publicly run for president that was pretty Gutsy I agree I'd say that's pretty gutsy. Yeah. But I mean, did you go into that interview ready to be so vulnerable meet she asked me a question and I answered it I mean no, I mean that that is the answer. If you're GonNa ask me personally what the gutsiest thing. I. Ever did that was it. You've written about it Jennifer areas written about it about the conversation in your campaign about just how vulnerable you should be to run for president since we don't have a template. For that, at this point, otherwise we have a little bit more than one now but why are women expected to be more vulnerable? How does that play out? It's a very difficult question to answer and in the four, our four episode Hulu documentary about my life we go in to a lot of these issues because it's about my life obviously but just stop and think about the differences in questions that women are asked than men, and that's true. Across the board in politics, people feel much freer to ask a woman a personal question here Gillibrand who's my senator She got questions about how she can run for president. She said two little boys at home I mean there were other people running for president who had school age children at home. They didn't ask the men their fathers, right? That was just not the same. Kind of question. So It goes back to the point you made about the balance between strength and assertiveness and warmth than vulnerability. We're still struggling to get that in the right. Place because it's not easy and people still carry all of these expectations about about what women should or shouldn't be congresswoman Katie Puerto from California had a profile done earlier this year and I saw her talking about it afterwards saying that. They did a profile on her as a member of Congress with three young children and the place they wanted to do the photo shoot was to follow her grocery shopping. You look when is a member of Congress ever been photographed grocery shopping but it was because there was all this intrigue around how would she do it Ken she managed yeah. No I I mean that's a perfect example and what was so exciting about the two thousand eighteen midterms is all of the women who got elected some married some unmarried some straight some gay some with children some childless. That's where we want people to start having to grapple with is guess what you know women just like men have many different. Kinds of life choices that they've made, and it's just unfortunate that you know Katie Porter instead of you know John Porter. Is going to be stereotyped in that way. I mean she's great at the way she handles the press and handles herself. So you know she's going to. Push through it, but it still is a reminder that we are far from treating women, candidates, women, office holders, the same as men, and it makes such a difference when you have women look in every level like not just as the candidate, but it impacts the structure so much the first presidential debate that you were in at Hofstra. University was about a month after I had my first child. So I saw you take the the nomination at the convention five days later, I Went into Labor that later that day. So this my first commentary back was was the debate. So I was booked for the debate to comment on it I was nursing then. So I my first time pumping, take my pump with me. And so I asked both campaigns and I asked every network that I was booked on. If they had a place for me to pump, and for the most part I got like deer in headlight kind of luck. But your campaign was actually the only one that found me a place that was private and that was clean for me to pump I was told by the networks that the trump campaign actually had an employee who was pumping but that she was doing it in the bathroom stall. So I mean it really shows it makes a big difference when people are prepared every level you know Chelsea gave birth. To her second child in. June. Of Twenty Sixteen and then spoke at the convention for me a month. Later, we went on a book tour where she still nursing her third child. So I mean we we seen all of this and I love the fact that you and she are just so matter of fact like, okay, I'm nursing I. I'm Nita Place and I'm going to expect you to make that available and I love that I love that because that was unthinkable you know back when I was a new mother. It just not just you know deer in the headlights you be arrested or. Something would happen to you. There was so outrageous. So I mean that's one example. Okay. We are trying to break down these barriers that. You know limit not only women, but particularly, mothers and mothers of Young Children So I guess we can say that that's you know some small step forward but there still is a lot of resistance and I appreciate you saying that it's like it's It's more fear for me of leaking on air. Well Yeah. Just, a very. There So, you've stayed active state with your organization together you've been supporting many organizations that are helping women run for office. There is never ending speculation if you will run for president, do you ever think about running for another office as well? No, I really don't. You know I am happy doing what I'm doing right now this is a different stage in my life when people say to me, how are you I? Personally I'm great as an American I'm crazed. Day terrified outraged So I'm going to stay active I'M GONNA, keep speaking out going to remain in the public eye. I'm GonNa comment I'm going to help do everything I can to elect Democrats and particularly women up and down the ballot because honestly emily I think our democracy is at stake I. Think we are at such a pivotal moment in history that it scares me. because. It's not only in this country, but it's in other places around the world where. There are forces at work that are undermining democracy that are you know feeding forces of greed. In ways that we can't even. Imagine. Happening in previous times. Stoking fear and resentment and anger particularly at minority groups, immigrants There's just a lot happening. That is troubling plus you add throw in climate change and disease epidemics and everything else that we're facing. So I'm going to be as active as I possibly can be speaking out on things that I care about do you have a vision of what that could look like I mean specifically for this presidential campaign or this cycle and beyond? No I don't I mean I'm just GonNa do whatever I can and I've always done that. So that's not that's not new to me but I think. You know stay active with onward together, which supports all of these groups that are really on the front lines of recruiting and training in supporting. Candidates standing up for causes I believe in I've been active in the effort to try to just speak out against in help caged children at the border and everything that we've done to people and. Ways that are really inexplicable compared to having a secure border with humane treatment, which should be our goal I'm really upset about you know the reversal not just on climate change, but on environmental protections of kinds and the battle over health care continues you know there's a scene in the documentary about me that I had forgotten I mean once I Saw It it came vividly back. But when I was working on universal health care back in ninety three and ninety, four, the footage that the director found of me being burned an effigy because I wanted quality affordable health care for everybody is just a reminder of how seriously challenging, difficult and dangerous a lot of the political work that we do is today. Some news on Howard Stern are we going to see a picture of your college boyfriend sound? There have been pictures of him. In various and sundry places over the last Oh my gosh twenty, five, thirty years. It's likely it could pop up again. You never know when in fact, there might be one in the documentary. Oh my goodness tune in. Sadly he passed away. So you know I can't invite him to come to a screening but. I think you'll get to see him in the documentary we can't wait. Thank you so much secretary. It's really been a pleasure to have you on. Thank you, Emily. Glad you're doing this. Thank. You for listening to this bonus episode of your primary playlist. For behind the scenes, photos and extras, follow us on Instagram at your primary playlist. Special. Thanks to wonder media network and the whole your primary playlist team for producing this show. Talk to you next time. Not Presuming would only wanted teacher we also some. Okay. Here we go. You. We'll see what kind of interviews ends up being. Twenty minutes that's for sure. Exactly.
Anna Valencia (Vote Her In, Episode 15)
"Hi this is kelly with the two brads talking politics podcast. This is the fifteenth road of our vote her in series with author rebecca side where we look at the movement to elect our first woman president on today's episode. We speak with chicago city clerk on valencia. He'd like to hear the other suits in this series. You can go to to broads talking politics dot com slash vote her in or find them in our regular feed. Anywhere podcast are found judge are are you listening everyone. This is kelly with two broads talking politics and we are on today with the fifteenth episode of our vote her in series where we look at the movement to elect our first woman president i am joined as usual by my partner in this vote her in venture author rebecca xiv hi rebecca warning kelly and joining us today. We have the city clerk of chicago kogo valencia hi ana then mining kind rebecca morning anna great to have you on looking forward. I'm honored to be here. Well you know what we wanted to jump right in because you know as i was thinking about another kind of conversation we wanted to have with you. I went back and looked at the interview. I did with you for my book voter ran and realized as i was reflecting on it that you you may not be the only person who's had this experience but i think you're probably one of the few women elected who served in an executive capacity <hes> pity as a campaign manager as an appointed official and as an elected official and i thought given that special experience you've had it would be really good <hes> for our listeners to hear from you about who how and why you chose out executive path and what you've learned from and in can share with us definitely well. Thank you ladies for having me. You know i love talking about anything women and women and powered and journeys woman and i love listening to podcasts because they also inspire me hearing other people's journeys <hes> but for me it kind of really started. I don't like to say by accident but by chance how i got involved in politics you know i grew up downstate illinois about five hours south of chicago my dad and the trade my mom and a nonprofit profit and i was i my family to go to college at the university of illinois and the summer going into my senior year of college. I got an opportunity to be on our local judge's race and at the point where actually my father got me on the race the woman that cut his hair he had been talking to and she said oh my husband's a lawyer he's running for judge and you know my my daughter is interested in politics and government and forty eight hours later i had myself a great internship and really that opened had my eyes to something that i never even saw a possibility of heating able to go out and talk to voters and try to you know run on your issues and get people people elected and so what i thought i was going to be a lawyer because in my community lawyers were what were considered successful and i think my father desperately wanna. I need to be a lawyer and change introductory of our family but it wasn't really for me and i didn't go to law school. I ended up from the connection of the judge's race. Some folks that were working for then senator obama who was running. I graduated in two thousand seven may so great time for the presents sippy kicking off and actually two weeks after college got a job in virginia with the state party as an organizer so i packed my bags lived. It didn't supporter housing knocking door seven days a week and started my first journey into politics and to answer your question rebecca. You know you really don't i know what you can be if you don't see it and when i came back to illinois after the virginia cycle it was very small network of other folks that worked in campaigns is that recognized something that i didn't see of talent and hustle and hard work that kind of help me put myself on a path to jump on different campaigns what i did notice though being in campaigns and kind of moving up and in this world were not a lot of women and not color and for me when i i finally did get a seat at the table senator durbin campaign manager at twenty eight my first real leadership responsibility i noticed <hes> there were still bill lacking and in fact they tell the story to young people you know i went into a room to talk about the corner campaign in two thousand fourteen and there are sat with you know speaker of the house and the state senate president the governor at the time and senator durbin and all brought one person staff member and i looked around rounded. I was the only woman in the room and i would iran that was my kind of opportunity to step in and really lead and understand the power my voice <music> and lead the meeting successfully and we got everyone's approval to do the coordinated campaign and we moved so for me. It's been a great experience to understand understand the very basics of getting your foot in the door and as an organizer and campaign fight to understand campaign strategy and filthy in the ranks of top campaigns gene not a lot of women and then coming into the executive branch the greatest joy i've had is being able to change that narrative to actually have on on my eighth senior staff member seven women and one very strong brave man on our team and really be able to transcend what executive leadership looks like and their lived experience which is very exciting part of my job so can you share with a little about the kinds of skills and approaches to work that you wanna share with as you put it that one brave man and all those wonderful women. Yes you know i think the biggest thing for women is sometimes sometimes we don't always have the confidence i seen i think for men especially men of color come in with some imposter syndrome right and not knowing doing if they have what it takes the skills or the right education or the right resume your background and so it took a lot of coaching in seeking mentors and and finding people who've done this work to talk about it with so that you can build up that confidence to speak up when you're at the table i also find that when women in our enrolls of leadership that we are very collaborative spirit that we want to hear people maybe it's because we've been looked over so much that we want to be able to hear but also listening and then takes out listening and actually make action out of it. It's one thing to do listening table than listening to her but if you don't be if you're not courageous or bold enough to act on what you're hearing well then you're not really getting the job done so i'm really trying to expand the table but also in power the table to speak up to be able to articulate their viewpoints viewpoints their personal experiences their lived experiences because that's when the magic happens that's when the best policy happened is when you're able to get your team shared olympic experiences and create policies that walks to be effective because all the different perspectives are taken into account so i just wanted to push <unk> on that a little bit about those those lived experiences and if you could talk a bit about sort of what that means you know what what sorts of things in <hes> <hes> in your current role as as city clerk. Are you able to sort of draw on those lived experiences. I know you're trying to put through a a number of reforms and and how does how does is sort of reflect on your life and having your staff reflect on their lives. You know what that means on him said the kinds of things you can can do as city clerk with the kinds ends of policies. You can put put into place. I'll give you three examples wine. I will say that's the most defense is our fines and fees reform collaborative operative that we launched i launched in december and i launched this with a lot of parents and department heads and other elected officials because i heard so many stories and led to experiences of government putting barriers and people's lives instead of removing those barriers when it came to city stickers i and debt collection bankruptcy you all the things that were kind of happening with my office. My office was responsible for some of it but there are other departments mints that were also responsible for it and you heard different lived experiences for example the c._p._a. Bus driver who was a father of three on the west side who shared a story about losing his job at p._t._a. Because of five thousand dollars and fifty sticker ticket debt alone and was unable to get on a payment plan the pay that off and so there was a set fire all that was happening to him and his family and when you have those folks at the table telling you their or narrative or the lived experiences that helps you create a better policy that will help intact those communities that have been you know preyed upon if you will <hes> so that's one example another example. I will say <hes> from my team zone experience. We're sitting around one day talking about how we got our foot in the door and government and and how we even new government was a career elected office or a policy position being a chief legal counsel being you know community outreach person i and and a lot of them are very similar narratives a lot of our first in their family to go to college and there wasn't a career that sign up for government careers so what we right and we did is we started exposing. How can we in our world a city clerk platform to do as much good as possible and expand just on our our basic operations so with c._p._i. Chicago public schools we launched a civic engagement program for high school use called next gen city council. This will be our third year entering fall. We work with ten neighborhood high schools from roseland at finger and rosalyn have been eat their words in pilsen to michelle clark austin community and work with high school students to teach about local government and how you can be civically engaged in local government and make huge impact now and you don't have to wait until college or being adult you can you can know what's happening now and what's been the beauty of this is being able to see students come in and find their voice and sit tall and the aldermen seats and collaborations talk to other students from across the city about issues that are happening to them and then creating their own city ordinances that really impact what is happening in the community and then seeing them speak about these ordinances and voting on them and it is beautiful to watch and this actually after this last next gen z. council on may one of the ordinance in the top four that finished that the got the highest vote. I am personally introducing into city council so that they can see that their work actually made a law happen so i think those two examples and the third heard which is near and dear to my heart and i know to you too as well as women and girls so last october launched a women and girls group working groups the status status of women and girls and became up with twenty two recommendation with one hundred twenty women from all walks of life from the hotel workers unite here issue of executive president northern trust everyone in the middle high school students costumes etc and we said you know what we're not gonna wait for d. a._c. We're not gonna wait for springfield. We're going to save ourselves and with the twenty two recommendations that we came out on march eight this year four of those one of them are already done. Our recommendation is how far one is down with fair week work ordinance <hes> we are launching on friday our task force to look at a hundred high school in chicago on their sex education health education along with dr janice jackson scholar public school. You know we're working with the state. Police lieutenant governor juliana straaten gotten about how to clear the backlog for sexual assault ivan's kiss and hopefully by january will be launching the date and location for our young a young girl summit which will be next fall in twenty twenty with five hundred young girls coming together from thirteen to twenty four to talk about what a safety in chicago mean to them and <hes> here and how can we support them to thrive in chicago so it's very exciting things some are operational that touch my off it but having in this executive power and i really take it another step further and creating policies can do more by using the platform so anna. You are really really an inspiration i know and i know that when we look around we and you mentioned a couple of people other women in important positions in the state of illinois and there are women in similar positions in other states. This obviously is something very different than it used to be and so i'm wondering if you could talk a bit about <hes> you've talked a little bit about the pouncey partnerships but how you see this partnership with women like lieutenant governor <hes> and others rolling out as we look toward the next presidential and the possibility of electing a woman president and that was just sort of note parenthetically that if we are to elect a democratic president it will be d- do two women voters so wondering how you see that opportunity to organize yeah. I think it's imperative that women support women and that women who are powered empower other women. It's a no brainer actually if we're going to get to the white house that has to happen and so i've been very fortunate not to have these partnerships <hes> with some of the women being in illinois and here in chicago and cook county to really support the work and how do we amplify each other's work. How do we amplify each other's voices and one thing that i i'm hoping to do again this fall congresswoman more and underwood we also gave bus this last fall to our last election to go out and support her right organized and knock on doors. We had to drive an hour half out of chicago but there were twenty five women. Some didn't even know her that just got on a bus and went because how crucial it is to make sure we had women represent and congress uh-huh and even more so having an african american woman and part of the state representative was huge and so i think it's imperative we do that again that we get out the vote that we traveled to different states that we talked to our family members our neighbors our colleagues other women who may not be engaged in politics six or be engaged six. Do we have to push them too. Because this time around voting is not even enough we have to do some more so much more than just voting and we have to get uncomfortable and that's okay we have to get out of our comfort zones safety nuts in our little pockets of of <hes> they find in the city and there are women here in chicago and cooktown eat parts of the state that may not have the same views that we are that we have so we you have to find ways to communicate with them to say what can we find to compromise on. I'll give you a quick story over the weekend. I met this lovely woman who is a republican again and we were told not to talk about politics. Our friend made it very clear here different size but she started talking to me about politics and we we found ourselves at the intersection where we could actually agree noah's conservatives who is pro choice out of the conservative we agreed on <hes> <hes> she was a gun owner but she agreed on background checks you know out of the concert and climate change <hes> and so where can we go back to find those i read it in butter issues that women care about and not get caught up in the extreme rider extreme-left find ourselves to find common ground around for the good of women in the white house women in the governor's mansion now women in the mayor's office which is very exciting in chicago and women and a lot of other executive role. We have traditionally been overlooked and that's what i really wanna. Lend my life to is making sure that my legacy is young women and young women of color particularly with my shared experience or similar having the opportunity to get into these roles staying these role and be successful in these roles and and so that's what i hope to launch my life's dream to and hence someone in the white house and support and to <hes>. Could you give a little. Maybe advice for anyone who's thinking about either running for office themselves or wants to help their daughters. Maybe think about running for office. What what you want to to make sure they're thinking about outten focusing on i think for the daughter that confidence building can never start early enough. Just say yes to everything she wants to do. Never stifle her dreams. Nothing is too big. My parents were always always supportive of everything to do. Even if they didn't feel like they were my dad. I pull his friends that i was going through stage. When i was doing campaign work and then it was going to be out of that stage and i remember when i got my first business card with the senate the democrat he was like excited that i had a real job. He won't admit that now they understand what i was trying to do <hes> they we never stifled my dream which i can never say enough so if you have young daughters be supportive and whatever they want to do and second for women that want to run for office just do it. There's never the right time. There is never you're never going to have all the pieces together but if it feels feels right for you then do it and i think raising money was probably one of the hardest things that women candidates have to overcome that we as women have to be better job at writing for other women and making sure that we volunteer on the campaign help with petitions write checks support them in any way that we can and so when you decide to run. I think it's easier to kind of get the report. I think the hardest thing we do when we need to do a better job once this woman mm-hmm and get into office. How do we still support them because it can be very lonely at the top and especially of the woman of color and being young being thirty four coming into office that thirty two. I was very overwhelmed about how to lead. I was unsure authentically lead like a woman because i had seen only only men lead and <hes> some therapy some really strong women leaders of color to turn to. There's not a lot of us and a supportive husband really in support of friends. That really helped rally around me to make sure that i can be successful in this division because i'm not successful. Mayors festival juliana stratton is not successful can fox not successful dr jonas jackson's not successful then it'll be hard for any other woman to come and take come roll show. What am i seeing an. I love your phrase authentically. <hes> leaving like a woman and i wonder if you could just in closing thing share with us. <hes> you know what are the specific aspects of that leading. I know you mentioned collaborative efforts before you know what are the qualities because after all you know women have to in the same way men do they have to get more votes right and whether it's in the campaign ain't or you're presenting something the city council so can you share with a just a little bit about what those qualities are. I yeah definitely think relationship. Building relationships is everything in politics. I'm this is universal. Besides just under you have to be kind to people you you have to hear people. You have to give them an answer and be responsive. No is an answer but don't leave them in the gray area if you don't have relationships there's no collaboration. People have to trust you. They have to realize if you say you're going to do something that you do it and if you don't if you can't do it to give them i'm an answer and why you know maybe it's not this time but the next time so i think you have to you have to be communicated can't under i cannot underscore that if you cannot not communicate properly but the media message rather dot eu at townhall whether that between your own staff and team he will fail at it's huge and i think it's just this kind of intuition relationship building. You know being kind but i understand like being as you know. There's a tendency i think sometimes for women and women and the older generation. I don't wanna make it just everyone in the older generation but i understand i understood hillary a lot better this last cycle than i did the first time she ran for president. The first time i ran i ran for president with cousin obama and i didn't understand hillary the second time i was a lot older and i actually had been in position where understood where she was coming from to be the only woman in the room back in the early nineties he's to be doing the things she did was totally out of her element and not a lot of women doing that. So i think over time there are women who kind pardon themselves or guard themselves because it's a necessity to do this job and i find myself. Sometimes i guard goes up that distrust goes up that hardness to cover of yourself going on the battlefield comes up but you've got to find ways to stay connected to the work rounded to the work authentic to the work to not harding hurting yourself because voters can feel that you know people that you're trying to build relationships with other elected officials that you need can feel that and if you if you go ooh out approach to life you're not going to get very far so i would just say on a personal note that i'm part of that earlier generation as our listeners there's no and it you're speaking of and many times experience being the only woman in the room and i say constantly wherever i am dan it is so much better when you can share to work with other women and let your guard down and if you're feeling threatened <hes> you know the talk about it so i realized on really glad you mentioned that and i understand it because i think it was a totally different time and i've seen progress but still you you know or years ago or three years ago i found myself maybe to other women the room and it was a div that leave that meeting and go on needle confine them and ask them how to navigate something or how we were going to get our principals to turn their thinking or turn their direction so it's still it's getting a little easier but you know we saw ways to go my senior staff often last <hes>. We'll have a conversation like oh. It was exhausting. Today i had to the real world and deal with these other offices who aren't female ladder you know and so we laugh about it but it's still true we saw were to go but we have to understand the women that are ahead of us and the things that they've done and pay homage that and then the women that are coming up with new now at this age <hes> and and find our bridges to each other and support each other in the dust the way that we can. We'll speaking of supporting each other. We know that you've got lots to do. You feel that some of it i hope you'll come back and keep us posted so long as you <hes> i love that under full symposium and and all the rest of it so kelly any final words and then we say thank you yes i just i am so thrilled to see you know chicago and and really in a lot of ways illinois being led by women. I think it's it's so amazing to see and i i just i love the the work that you're doing and the ways is that that you're all working to try to make government more accessible and <hes> you know. It's just really fantastic so so thank you so much for that. Thank you thank you rebecca this. All things women as my favorite things might topics so i'm happy to come any time thinking thing the vote her in segment is a collaboration of two broad talking politics and author rebecca side our theme song called. Are you listening off of the album. Elephants shaped trees the band immunology and we're using it with permission of the band. Our logo and other original artwork is by matthew with lynn and was created for use by this podcast. I you can contact us at two broad talking politics at g mail dot com or on twitter facebook at two bronze talk you can find all of our episodes at two broads talking politics dot com or anywhere podcast or found.
Young Radicals Against Free Speech: Reason's Robby Soave on His New Book, Panic Attack
"The reason podcast I'm Zac smaller coming to you in front of a live audience in reasons, Los Angeles headquarters, where I'm talking with reasons. Ournalists swab it, author of the new book panic attack young radicals in the age of Trump. Robbie it is great to have you here in the LA office. Thank you so much for having me. I'm glad to be here. Now. Thank you. So your book is largely an examination of the excesses of the what you call the intersectional left and that's mostly in prominently on display on college campuses. It's also delves into the identity and rights, but I would say it's mostly focused on the former it seems like you visited a fair number of college campuses, and protests in reporting out this book. It's a very well reported book. So I'm curious just to start if you could give us some insight into your process, walk through the logistics of how you put this together. Sure I've been writing about kind of the culture on college campuses for for a while now. And I think it was it was twenty fifteen when, really the national media started paying a lot more attention to the climate of censorship emerging on campus. Is that had been there awhile? I mean some people argue had been there all along never went away. But, but these incidents were things like like nNcholas crosstalk s at Yale, who was a dean, who was yelled at by the students because his wife had said that they should be able to wear whatever Halloween, costumes, they want, and a small subset of student. Activists had rejected that advance said, no Yael must be a emotional safe-space, that is your job to ride that for us. So there were couple things like that, that attracted a lot of media attention. And eventually kind of, was the push for, for an agent to come to me and say, you know, I've been reading your writing on the subject, it seems like you don't fit into the right or the left at which which is true, as you know, libertarian, I'm more neutral arbiter of obviously have an agenda, my own, but no no kind of skin in the game between conservatives and progressives fighting. So he thought my perspective on this would. Be valid. So then I started putting together the book visiting campuses. Like you said, trying to engage the kind of students who were involved in the behavior that we that we've seen, and that has been criticized and to try to understand why they were choosing these tactics that I find concerning because they threaten some very fundamental libertarian principles that actually over that historically have overlapped with the left free speech due process that kind of thing. And so were you just hopping from campus to campus? I mean, what sort of vents were you attending? So I, I went to for instance, I knew Charles Murray was gonna come speak at the university of Michigan, which is where I graduated from. So I know the campus kind of well, so I thought that would be a good one to go to and see how he was received this was after the infamous incident where he went to Middlebury, and he was, like actually attacked physically. Attacked his debate partner a liberal professor with a put her like in a neck brace by, again, I I they subset of students. So I went to Michigan when he was there to see how they would greet him in while there was no physical violence. There was the shouting down the refusal to kind of listen to what he had to say and then afterward I went to where the student activists were, and I talked to them about the event I did so beforehand to, then I did a lot of, you know, when I'd see if a student would write something in the student paper, saying that we don't want someone like this to speak on campus and I would Email them and say, hey, can I interview about your perspective on this? So I did a lot of engaging with the students even when I couldn't necessarily be there in person, and you mentioned that your particular vantage point was attractive to the publisher, and how do you think that affected the final product this, it, it does have a sort of cool detached feel to it? Which is good. Thank you. Yeah. And there's a I mean just these are just extremely hot button issues. And I do feel that this book you're able to step back a little bit. So. Yeah. How do you think that your vantage point, as a thirty year old libertarian affected the product? So I hope you know, that, that because I, I really feel my audience is sort of moderate liberals. I mean, I'm sure people on the right will will like the book because they're concerned about smelly of these shutdowns, especially when they impact conservative speakers, but it's sort of a warning to people on the slight left who I have some common ground with on things like right on a criminal Justice reform things libertarians tend to agree with liberals on and my concern. Is that the kind of the certain strain of leftist, progressivism has hijacked these conversations and is using tactics that are just like ridiculously? Off putting to most people and are very counter-productive and actually bring them into conflict with each other. I mean, the book is a chronicle of, of, of infighting because of their ideologies that make them like battle each other over some very fringe stuff that is interesting and fun to million. It's easy to make fun of but e is, is, is something that should be council Jens because it's like has a negative effect on social change for society and the ideology that you are talking about in this book, you identify as intersection -ality. What is that? Sure, so intersection -ality, it's impossible for me to overstate its importance to the modern left. I've described it as the operating system for for progressive activism. So intersection -ality comes from a sociologist, named Kimberly cramped Shaw, who coined the term in the late nineteen eighty s it was her way of describing, the joint impact of racism, and sexism. So a black woman language. Che's under more oppression. Two different kinds of oppression versus just black people and just women. And she was actually referring to a specific a lawsuit against I believe it was against General Motors. It was against a car company it which the, the black women were suing the company for saying they had been discriminated against because the company was had a policy of firing the most recently hired employees, and they were saying, well, that's often black women because the Civil Rights Act in before it existed. You did they didn't have to hire us. So now they've, they've more recently started. Hiring us, of course, with the first people hired. So they were saying this policy violates the Civil Rights Act, but in the court said, but you don't get your protected because for racial reasons and for gender-based reasons, but not for like the cumulative effect of those was, it's very interesting court case, and so might my beef with intersection -ality is not the theory itself. I mean, I think people black women do suffer from or not all of them. But historically the having both of. Those factors working against you. Certainly there has been joint oppression. But the kind of adherence of the intersectional framework, think have added so many other categories of oppression against oftentimes things that are valid related to gender identity or in tation, etc. But they're also saying that you everyone must oppose all of these things with equal fervor. And if you're not sufficiently worked up about all of them, we don't want you in our coalition this, this manifested itself over and over again, when I talked to students for the book, some a bunch of them told me that they had wanted nothing to do with the women's March, which took place right after Trump's the day before the day after Trump's inauguration, you know, hundreds of thousands of people showed up to this thing in DC. It was the most well attended protests since the Vietnam war. And they said, no, we hated it. It was. It was terrible. Why? Because it was not led by a coalition of the most oppressed. The people organizing it were not were not black and white. Women and trans people. And so on and so forth. They wanted only the most oppressed victims need. It could have thority to address these issues, according to the sort of intersectional activists, which very self-defeating. I think if that's your if that's what you're operating off of. There's the waste we've seen this manifest on college campuses has been the rise of things like trigger warnings safe spaces microaggressions. I think a lot of people are familiar with all these terms at this point, where that all seems to be couched in a sort of idea of safety like your aggressing against me with your words, you're, you're triggering me into some sort of PTSD like state. Where did that idea come from? Is that related to intersection -ality? So I think it's a different phenomenon. But the combination the intersection of the two is, is something that has. Made campus A, very kind of maddening and baffling place. For for observers of higher, Ed culture. I mean you have a hundred campuses at more than that, at least one hundred have have bias reporting systems designed around intersection, -ality. So if you see see something, say something report you're supposed to report. If you see incidents of oppression, not even illegal sort of just, just saying microaggressions, small slight harms, for reasons of identity for reasons of race or sex orientation or gender or or disability status or religion or age or size. There is sizes them that is one on the tier of intersectional based oppressions and, and these things are catalog and reported on the campuses. So if there's this immense bureaucracy, and of course, all of these universities have just have grown their administrative states by, by an unimaginable factor, you know, professors their ranks have not increased their salaries. Have not really increased. Meanwhile, there are, you know, ten senior vice president of inclusion and sustainable diversity, and they're all making one hundred fifty K. No. Exaggeration. This is like every major university. And so these people's part of their job is to make the students feel comfortable and to handle and adjudicate all these matters. So eventually, it's going to be if there is this tool, right? For an you're going to see yourself as someone who deserves this extra level of comfort and safety that the that the apparatus of the university has to provide for you. So there there safety ISM. It's difficult to trace exactly. Know for sure way that comes from your height, and Luke, John Haydn, and Greg Lukianov have written a book, the coddling of the American mind that the they think a lot of what are our colleague at reason when Skains Anisi talks about helicopter parenting, things like that have contributed to kind of over over parenting over safety vibes. Among young people. And I think that's partly true. But part of it is just that I mean you have these student activists who have again these, these tools on campus. The, the reason to see themselves as victims because there are there these structures that telling them to see themselves like that. Not all students, not most students, but a small number a tiny number of, of radicals have weaponized these processes to the detriment of free speech. And if there, what, what is the re- the consequence of that because the, the students seem to want to be protected? They, they want safe spaces. They want microaggressions policies. What are the negative consequences of that in your mind? I mean there are there are new examples every week and a an example, I'm very worked up about right now that actually isn't in the book, because it happened after the due date at Harvard University. You know, the, the most prestigious institution of education in our country. The there's a professor named Ron Sullivan who's a law professor there and also a faculty dean of one of the residential colleges. And he you know, he's a progressive expert on criminal Justice issues. He, he advised Senator Obama before. Obama was president. He's helped free. Lots of wrongly incarcerated people. He as a defense attorney. He's represented a controversial, and indeed despicable people because that's what that's how our system works, right? We believe even into the people responsible for the Boston massacre deserve representation. That was the John Adams view who represented them. So he's represented. I think Aaron Hernandez, I think is that he was a, a football player accused of murder. He's represented accused terrace does never been a problem for the left before. But he's he had decided to represent Harvey Weinstein. So some about fifty students on campus staged a protest. Saying that the Harvard is now an unsafe place for women because he is representing Harvey Weinstein. The students the students one harbored launch an investigation of Ron Sullivan, and they fired him as faculty dean they caved one hundred percent to again, this not everyone on campus was demanding this, it was fifty students, but they got their way because these students have a view that safety encompasses them feeling uncomfortable on an emotional level. And that's a major theme of the book. When I talked to the students about their tactics like Michigan, I talked to one, you know, don't you think you shouting down taro's Murray to a neutral observer that person would be more sympathetic to Charles Murray watching you scream obscenities at him. Whereas if maybe they would disagree if they had to hear what he was going to say, but because of what you're doing. He seems more sympathetic, and they kind of just said, but, but if he space. Weeks. And then he makes marginalized people on the campus feel uncomfortable than it compromises their safety. So I'm not interested your, your theoretical argument for why this is would be influential might be right. But were literally concerned about safety and us their tactics are a form of self defense because they include words on the same spectrum as violence and their tactics at times have escalated into violence. I mean, even in the Murray example, you write in the book that Murray and the person he was debating, I guess, were physically assaulted on their way out, you visited UC Berkeley, where the provocateur Milo Yannopoulos gave a speech and all hell broke loose people were throwing molotov cocktails and barricades. I actually visited that campus a year after for reason TV to talk to students, and they all they were embitterment about it. They. Blamed some of it on. And they blamed most of it on antiga said were not affiliated with the student body but at the same time they seem to be making similar arguments that this can be justified as an act of self-defence. So what were the attitudes? You encountered about specifically political violence. Right. So, so it remains the case that only the very, very far last endorses political violence, only your antifa type people, and they do indeed, because they so, so my book is broken into chapters each chapter being about a category of activism, AVI. They're all obviously, these are all these are all related to some degree this just the way organized the book. So one of them is about sort of political activism, and antifa. And these people come from long political tradition dating back to Europe in the nineteen thirties. They are. Blissett -ly, an illiberal ethos stay. They do not believe that we give we should give equal rights to people who hate us to people who have bad right wing fascist ideas. We should explicitly not give those people writes, this is they're kind of intellectual sort of one of their intellectual figures is Marquette Herber, Mark the influential new left thinker of, of the fifties and sixties, critical theory outright. Right. Critical theory, who are, but who argued for for a repressive tolerance that, that, that if we, we have to we have to we can't be so tolerant that we let intolerant, people run, reorder our society so that there's no tolerance? And he, he very much wrote kind of a handbook for for, you know, it might be justified to not have right wing views expressed in the media or in our schools. So it was explicitly not a classically liberal first amendment liberal outlook, and that is the perspective. Is that the antifa, people bring to all this? I think it also has a long history of just totally backfiring. There are examples even like going back a long way of fascist groups actually recruiting more effectively because newspapers had to write about their groups. If there was a violent confrontation with the anti-fascist otherwise, they were not in the news. So no one would know about these groups like, so fascist sympathetic people wouldn't know about the group to go. Join it. But if, if there was a clash, then I go, there's that's the group. That's how I join it. Really Richard Nixon. There's a there's a memo. He got for, for his when he was president, one of his advisers said to expect a lot of violence on campuses in the coming year, and he just wrote back. Good. Because he thought it would it turns people away from the kind of activism, they represent it makes them more sympathetic to the kind of law and order society. He was in favor of the rationale. I've also seen as you know, you're talking a lot about tactics. And they would say that their tactics. Have been somewhat affective in that they've raised the cost for universities of allowing these people. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars now to provide security for some of these controversial speakers. Some folks on the far the alt-right have basically said they've stopped appearing, because antifa made the cost too high. So how do you respond to the argument that, you know, this stuff does work at at least in the short term, I guess, and I guess, more broadly that, you know, maybe de platforming in the sense can work. Yeah. I mean it's very complicated question. It it some of it worked in some cases. I think it's wrong to say that Milo specifically was brought down by D platforming because when it was just people protesting him even violently again. He ate that up that was great because he didn't have anything really interesting to talk about anyway. It was it was better if they would interrupt him. Scream things. He would plead martyr that was his whole stick. I mean, people were inviting him for that reason the college Republicans, there's a group at Stanford who had, like at mid, there was a national review article where someone who I think, was in that club said, we discussed, you, we were going to invite and then we're like, let's invite Milo, the left will hate it. They'll protested are, you know, like it's totally what are you getting so I so I think that was all just offended by. I think that was all good for him to some degree. He I mean he was undone not by shielding, not not by censoring, what he had to say. But by just letting people learn what he had to say. I mean, his what he had said in his emails came out, people exposed to really horrible things. He had said, and then he you know, he was disinvited from something. So it it did that did play a role but but learning more about him caused people to turn against him. Just shouting him down, as they did campuses did not, and would never have in my opinion. What do you think of the? These conservative groups basically using figures like Milo at admitting were just trolling the left than away. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's really pretty gross. I mean, they have, and I mean, this is a this book is, is mostly a story about the left because the left has a lot of power on college campuses suddenly, and that was the phenomenon I was interested in, in, in exploring, but certainly, the right has responded to and, and sort of it, the it's intellectual quality has has worsened in response kind of over the time, period, I was writing this, the students the conservative activist students just became more and more interested again in, you know, to trigger the libs, that, that's, that's a joke. People everybody has heard that now to, to own the lifts that, but it's a joke, but that really is has been to some degree. They're operating strategy. You know, even someone like Charles Murray, who was thoughtful. I don't always agree with him, but he's certainly thoughtful in more than. Fighting, but it's like he was their go to person because they knew he was going to get attacked. There is a wealth of other conservative people who may be there would be no protests, and there would actually be discussion, and it seemed like a lot of them were less interested in having those, those people obviously, it's a big country. There's tons of universities. It's also the case that there's plenty of colleges where they invited someone and we never heard about it, because there was no protests and everything was fine. So I'm, I'm certainly not trying to say that this has this always happens or this happens most of the time. The I'm I'm not trying to, you know, worry people into thinking that, that there's no such thing as free speech anywhere on campus. But it is a problem at some of our most elite institutions like Harvard Yale read overland, the UC system, Michigan, where I went to there have been incidents that I think should worry us, even if it doesn't even if I would counsel us from not going to full blown, oh my God. It's a it's, it's the most serious crisis ever, or something like that. If they're. There's this ongoing sort of tribal warfare between the intersectional left and people on the right who want to own them, where do libertarians stand in that are wear sh day stand in this tribal war. That's a good question. I mean we stand in with neither side right now. We are not and well, we are not a identity based movement. Right. We believe in individual liberty individual rights, that your meaning sort of edit all people by virtue of being individuals have rights. And so, I think we're also just wary in general of like joining big groups, even sometimes when I'm with other libertarians, are you really a libertarian, not your this kind of libertarian? I'm that kind of libertarian. Let's let's divide. Which is sometimes this is why we don't this is why despite what Tucker Carlson said yesterday. We don't have all that much political power. I don't know if it's the, the audience heard he had a Tucker Carlson, the Fox News host had a talk about how libertarian the is DC is concentrated with sort of libertarian power, which is true in the narrow sense that I, I do think people in DC are more socially, liberal, and more for free markets and open borders than the rest of the country. But obviously like Kato is not running the government right now. Yeah, they're not to our detriment. Yeah. There, there has been this sort of strange phenomenon or resurgence on the of the social conservative. Right. Recently, there's been. There was a sort of freak out about a drag Queen dry queens, reading to children, the library that inspired a one writer to say, you know, it's time for conservatives to bring down the fest and restore the social order. We already know that the intersectional left hates us, so wh-. What do we do in this situation? Of course. And again, this is an example, horseshoe theory, where the two most extremes do meet because the, the right has this queens are talking to our children freak out, but also the left some members of the intersectional, also hate drag queens, because you're mocking either. It's mocking identity and that should not be permitted. They. The identity of Harry seriously. There's a there's a actually in one of my chapters, about a gender related issues and transgender related activism. There's a tension between is a rupaul is this has a has a show probably many of you've seen it about about drag queens, and he sort of got cancelled very briefly the left came for him because he said that he would not want a trans per person who is transit, a man, who's transitioning to female to be on the show because then it would no longer be a man dressed in women's clothes. It would be a woman, and their whole point is to, like, mock identity and these rigorous categories of identity that like the left loves is, is not where he wants his show to be. And he got it at vox freaked out at him about that. Yeah. It'll off topic, but we'll, we'll know but it's, it's on topic in a way because this seems to be strangely one of the most salient issues for both the intersectional left and the right in some ways at least the socially conservative, right? The debate over transgender rights, and you spend considerable time breaking that debate down it, obviously has high stakes for actual transgender people. But it seems to take an on a symbolic value for both sides in the culture war. What are the underlying issues that are at stake in this debate? Yeah, I mean, they're they're, so there's a illiberal streak. In some of the activism on trans issues, I'm, I'm not a social conservative. So I you know, I'm not a Ben Shapiro saying that there's something not right about transgender people that they shouldn't transition. I don't agree with any of that. But the activists community around those issues do tend to fight. With even like very sort of mainstream left-of-centre, journalists who write about these issues. Jesse single is one Katie Hertzog is another, these are people who are definitely liberals are people on the left far more on the left than you were. I are who have just written about these issues and again, from eight not from a social conservative from very socially, liberal point of view that they have drawn Katie Herzog Li I think she lives in Seattle, like she had people like burning copies of, of the stranger, which is again, that's the far left sex. Dan, savage is the editor of all gays columnists gay man, who writes about sexist by phrased stat badly. They're burning copies of this, because she just pointed out that some people not a lot, but some people who transition regret doing so and transition back that, not, again, not all not most, you know, and people should be able to do whatever the end, this is a libertarian think people should be able to do whatever they want with their own bodies, but she just quest. Whether this was the right choice for everyone. And they it was they acted like she was Hitler and they've done, the, the same, not, not the broader community just the activists around these issues and it it's, it's honestly, some like deeply crazy stuff. And that's in the book. Yeah. And I, I actually pulled a quote that somewhat related to this, the that I want to read about the very this, this topic in particular, in, and you say, in order to suss out the truly gender dysphoric fairly invasive psychological questionings, probably necessary, which runs counter to the activists, desires young people increasingly experimenting with gender fluidity and living outside the gender binary, or in some sense, contributing to the confusion here. This may they may seem Desportivo the casual I, but they are really just interested in transgressing gender norms, not in changing their underlying sex. But pointing out this tension does not make one a proper intersectional ally. I mean if we fail to talk, honestly about those sort of tensions between transgressive experimentation, which is really part and parcel of adolescence in some ways, and are immediately jumping into affirming and identity, what effects to think that kind of, and it can go beyond the trans debate. But kind of this idea that everything must immediately. Be categorized and identities must be kind of set in stone. What, what are the broader implications on society? There we. Yeah. And, and that it must be clinical. It must be diagnosed Sibal. I must be I, I mean you have to take it back to the students. I mean you have students, and I think the, the dig deep stigmatization around mental health is good people, you know, who have mental struggles are talking openly about them far more than ever before. But there is a. An I wanna be careful how I talk about it because I want to be sensitive to people who do have mental health issues. But there are I've talked to professors who tell me that every student in their classroom says they suffer from PTSD every student at a very prestigious liberal arts college has a PTSD issue and thus you can't give me negative feedback on by in class performance, and I need another week to do the exam and I'm not turning. I mean, there are there are there are students weaponising are greater sensitivity for mental health issues to sort of just get out of doing their homework, I interviewed for the book a theater professor who couldn't who she just gave up in frustration trying to say anything to her students, every single one of them said. Yeah. And if you had, so she was teaching acting. So you say if you had men playing male roles men, playing female roles. You know, no matter which way you did it someone said you had you had done. You had failed some test of intersex analogy in an even. If they were conflicting demands someone pushing someone like on, like a light pushing on the soldier on the shoulder someone came to see her after class and said, you, just you just performed a sexual assault. And you've just retraumatize everyone in the classroom. I mean, this is an by what she this professor. I spoke with said she taught at a less privileged college before she went to teach students where where many of our students were like were like soldiers who just come back from Iraq. And none of them had PTSD issues. I mean, come on. I visited Arizona State University for some research for the book I described it this way before, but it beautiful campus. The sun is shining like the student body continues to win like most attractive student body in the country every year. Like it's a nice place to live, and there is a sign every five feet that says, would you visit the counseling center are you did? You remember to Burris today breathe. I mean, there can be a I think they're, they're almost in some cases, maybe an encouragement to see yourself as having some mental struggle. And that actually plays in to the intersection -ality based hierarchy because if you're a very progressive, you know, CES white, straight male so you don't languish under any of the categories so you have no authority when you discuss with other activists, because according to intersection -ality only victims themselves are the experts on these issues. We must all feel sil- fall silent, and listen to them. But we, we also can't just expect them to speak for themselves either. So it's actually ends up being completely contradictory. But so if you don't have any source of, of oppression, well, mental, mental health would be a source, and that's an easier, one to I'm again, I'm not saying people are making it up, but it would be an easier one to make up then then being like not the. The race. You are right. You can't for if you're white, you're you're can't pretend to not be white, Rachel Dulles all aside. But yet, which actually I read a little bit about her in this book because I don't know. I find it I was not as outraged by this is I guess, a controversial opinion but race is a more made up category than gender, actually or sex, gender, sex and gender is based in at least some biological reality. I mean I then fine with these categories being mutable, but racist, just like totally made up. So, so it was funny that Rachel Dallso Huzzah points, which are saying, well, I'm just I'm saying it was not to me, so totally ridiculous that she would identify with the culture of another race or something. But because I mean, like we do we must embrace, and you are shunned as like a Nazi, if you don't embrace the idea of transgenderism, but like trans race transracial ISM was on thinkable for some reason it was I found that a little weird. Maybe that's just me. Well, your willingness to cover these topics. Some might even say eagerness. Made you bit of a lightning rod yourself, and I want to give you the chance to reply to some of your critics directly and I'm just going to run down a quick list here in and you can respond to any or all during we're just someone plays in two thousand fourteen Rolling Stone reported on a horrific gang rape. The hit allegedly occurred at a frat party on the university of Virginia campus. And you were one of the first journalists to question the details of that story, a just bell writer ran a headline reading is the UVA rape story. Ah giant hoax, asks idiot, that idiot being you. Of course, your skepticism did turn out to be warranted. And the article was retracted because of major holes in the story and insufficient evidence and Rolling Stone actually ended up paying a major settlements to the fraternity and question this year. A video clip went viral that many interpreted. As a maga- hat wearing teen boys. Getting in the face of an elderly native American gentlemen. You actually watched the whole video and pointed out that it was a little more complicated and the teens had night. So you've been the ones to initiate, the confrontation and many large media outlets sort of begrudgingly started, acknowledging this Garfield host of WNYC's on the media, recounted it and described you as a contrarian provocateur deadspin writer, called you a professional contrarian you recently testified in front of a house committee about hate crimes expressing skepticism about a mild spike in the hate crime statistics, which you argued could be attributed to simply more police precincts documenting hate crimes than had in previous years. And for this Huffington Post reporter Andy Campbell called you a bad faith witness who denied that hate and white supremacy, pose a threat at all. Yeah. So I'll just let you pick any or all of those. Yeah. The, the Huffington Post guy said I denied that white supremacy poses any threat at all. But like quoted me later in the article saying that I have hor white supremacy, and it's very bad and it's terrible to the extent that it exists that some of these so that one was such a I think, unfair mischaracterization of what I said that, that it's it was like the hit piece you want to be written about you, because then everyone comes to your defense, because it was so unfair. And it was just, you know, it bore no resemblance to the what actually happens. I was testifying before congress on hate crimes. I was brought the Republicans had invited me to kind of council that let's not go overboard in pretending that hate crimes are worse than they've ever been. I'm not sure the evidence shows that actually the witnesses who had been bought by the Democrats didn't even really fundamentally disagree with that. We had what I thought was a pretty nuanced discussion about the trade offs between policing hate and civil liberties, and it was fine. So we, you know, I spoke with Susan bro, was there who, who is the mother of the woman who died in Charlotte, who was killed by white supremacists at Charlottesville and the Huffington Post characterize it as how insulting to her, that she had to sit next to this denier of white supremacy. But we actually had a great conversation where she said her view was probably somewhere between the other panelists and mine. And I and she said she was going to check out reason magazine. So like it. So we had a very thank you. So it bore no resemblance to that I so I'm not a provocateur whatsoever. I contrary and maybe fair because sometimes the media gets major stories wrong Covington, and Rolling Stone or two angles of those, and I, I do I try to call them out when I think they get it wrong, I think when they get Trump related things wrong, even though I'm not a fan of Trump at all. I say so I think that's card and confusing in the moment were in because everything is team Trump or team media. And that's much Trump's faulted, anyone because he has positioned the media as the opposition party and then many in the media have enjoyed that being in that position. So the media is not seen as referees because they're there the other team. So it sometimes hard to talk about. So the Rolling Stone thing was was before. Well before Trump. I bet if it had happened now you would have people, so, so every in the Rolling Stone event, everybody had to pretty much admit. That she totally made this up to Jackie was not sexually assaulted the person. She accused did not exist. Text messages sent from him to her friends were sent by Jackie. It was a cat fishing thing. There was there's like an enormous evidence that she practised deception to, to like a really like sociopathic degree if this had happened today, there would be there just like the Covington think there would be people on the left saying, no, we know what we know we believe her. You know, we know what she, she said, you know, we, we believe victims, if it was in the wake of the metoo movement, which is what you saw with Covington, even though it was just it was so in just obvious to me after you watch the whole video that these kids were not. They were they had been cheering to drown out this, this hate black nationalist, hate group. And they were doing that before the native American man showed up. And then he approached them like they were the bad guys in this encounter, even though it was clearly like the crazy like nature. One of Islam cult type group that had been yelling obscenities at them and then threatening them. And then he mischaracterized, the whole the, the native American man, just totally misrepresented. What happened? So that is so obvious after you watch the clip. But you had I, I was I was baffled, and truly disheartened by the lead by the by people in the media just clinging to their initial narrative there. So it's your contention than that, since the Rolling Stone article in two thousand fourteen it's actually become more difficult to be a skeptic of a kind of prevailing media. It's become more difficult to be a skeptic without being associated with Trumpism. If you're being skeptical of criticisms of things that and the Covington kids were wearing maga- hats, so they were seen as part of team Trump. So then it's like I must be some kind of deranged, Trump supporter, if I'm defending them, and then it goes the other way. Right. Because then the Trump administration wants to make these kids heros for the cause of Trumpism. Their lawyers are suing. I it's a very sort of shaky case to me on free speech grounds. It's unlike the Rolling Stone lawsuits, which were very I mean some libertarians, maybe don't believe there should be liable law at all. But if you think there is liable law, this was like very clearly they were right to say that Rolling Stone. What they did was just like absolutely in, in violation of that, that the thing against the Covington kids is not clearly liable at all. I Eugene Volokh agree I talked to him about it. He's the first amendment scholar. We libertarians love and rely on sue, but you have them, you know, like so it's a it's a Trump versus media thing. And, and they've really kind of weaponized the kids for a pro-trump 'cause that's frustrating to me. So it's just hard to, to talk about any of these issues and not lump them into well, how does this serve Trumper? How does this hurt him? So I, I want to finish up by kind of talking about that symbiotic relationship that seems to. Exist. Tween the intersectional laughed and portions of the right we already talked about the kind of impulse to own the libs. But on the kind of more disturbing side of things. There's the outright and you talked with Richard Spencer, for this book, who was one of the people who coined that term. What incite deducting Spencer, give you about the relationship between the outright and the intersectional left the interplay between those two. So it was interesting Spencer, Spencer himself and just being for himself had some I, I would describe it as some degree of fun, nece or admiration for the left because he agrees with an identity based framework. He does not believe in individual rights. He doesn't think there's any such thing, your rights come from your membership in a racial category. He wants he wants. I mean, he wants a welfare state for white people that's like explicitly what he wants. That's not that he wouldn't. Deny that so he had some kind of admiration for the more identity based leftism and wants to do a similar obviously in a much more horrifying ways, he, he wants to banish members of other races from the country and that's not, you know, send and other people in his coalition had different origin store. It's funny that you libertarians get blamed for they say libertar- there's an old libertarian to all right pipeline, which there are the Rotarians who became members of the outright, but there are also just conservatives who became members of the alright. There are leftists who became members of the alright, there's an either Occupy Wall street people whose Occupy Wall street's criticism was of the major financial institutions, and there's a perception that, oh, that's Jewish, people, control them and the and the antisemitism is in the Aldridge. So there's, there's a horseshoe kind of antisemitism between the far left and the far-right there are, and there are people, there are people in the movement, who are just sort of lonely and desperate, who would have joined any cult that they happened across. They could have ended up, you know, in, in any sort of like a like weird like guru kind of thing or on a farm somewhere or like the the left. Oh if anyone watches HBO's leftovers like they would have been in the white the guard smoking cigarettes will loose they would have kept their mouths shut. Yeah. Yeah. So that's another category of people who joined the alright. And then I think there are people there are some people who it's a reaction to the left to some degree to the whatever you wanna call political correctness run amok, or something, which is not a defense of them. Joining the outright, obviously, if you know, if you get mad at the left and then, like become a racist. That's on you. But I there are there are there was a great story in a Washingtonian just two or three weeks ago, about this fourteen year old kid who went through a sort of Kafka, esque sexual harassment hearing at in his like eighth grade. Let just like your heart would break for what they put this kid through he'd like told a joke that was overheard, and misinterpreted and his principal told him, he was going to go to jail for this, and they like they fucked this kid up so badly. And he and he, you know, and then he comes to he finds online that there's this group of people who blame feminists, and Jewish people, and other people have faced what he faced and you're not alone. And there's a trolling making fun of the left kind of group and he gradually more and more fell into the old right and was subsumed by it. And then the thing that broke him out of it, which has interesting implications for my, my more. Don't shut these people down agenda is that when he actually went to a rally an alright rally, and he met these people. In person he found them to be so pathetic and, and, and whiny and concert and contradictory that he, he renounced the alright, and, and, and this was just a passing phase for him, which is so so, you know the trying to shield him from these people would not have been the solution. Just kind of letting these things be aired sunshine is the best disinfectant. And for those libertarians, that you mentioned there is a contingent who have been pulled to the right and even into the alright, partially as a reaction against the excesses of the intersectional left. I mean, what would you say to people who have felt that poll other than you know, don't? I mean, I think some people were passing through libertarianism on their way to the most just out there thing. And for Lyle libertarianism was the most out there thing, I think when Ron Paul really made a splash, and he, he had a point of view. That was just so different than anything else out there. And then some of them move straight past that. I mean, I interviewed Christopher can't well for this book, who is a well known the crying, that's the now he's known as the crying Nazi. But before that he was in our NRP capitalist, who would who would like watch the cops. He had a very he'd like an anti-cop thing. And I so I talked to him about his radical his turn to the alright, and he is so he's so far on the outright now and it was basically because aqap was nice to him. Once he had a police. Encounter where the police were just really respectful toward him. And like he was like he had a gun out and it could like in his thinking, it would have ended with the police just gunning him down on site. And instead they were really nice him and let him go. And then he decided so maybe store. Terrorism is not that bad. And so what do you do with that? You know, that's just a quirk of fate, that, that is what led him to, to the alright. Based on what you learned researching and reporting for this book, where do you think our politics are likely to go from here and thinking, optimistically, Where'd you hope? How do you hope things change? Or where do you hope things go from here? So a part of the reason that I am so concerned, mildly concerned about the influence of the intersectional left, even though they are again, a fringe, there is not very, many of them. They do not have the numbers. This is not a generational condemnation, not all people are not even most young people are like this. However, it only takes one person who is like this at your on the campus or in your company, or working for your social media firm, or at your magazine, who is going to sort of weaponize, harassment law in a way that just just destroys the culture of allowing discount uncomfortable speech to take place. So I'm worry, you know we now have. So this is a random. Example, but the young adult novel community, there are authors who write young adult novels who are who are canceling self canceling their novels, because, like, two or three woke Skuld people said it was, there was something something problematic somewhere in the book, even if their criticism is completely uninformed, there, one book by things called blood air. And again, this is a fantasy book for kids about like a Russian magicians, or something like that. And there's there's, there's an underclass of slaves in the book and one, one of these woke intersex reviewers said, how dare you appropriate an American story, the American story of slavery for a novel set in Russia as if there had been no slavery in Russia. The American South is the only place in the world that ever had slavery. I mean that, that is a very uninformed criticism that book, she pulled it. She pulled her book. She sanitized it. And now, I guess it's gonna come out with you know, they I mean so Ray Bradbury said there is more than. One way to burn a book. It's this kind of self self censorship in the face of kind of, of mob, like behavior that I worry is going to negatively affect our culture that we're already seeing that at some media, companies firms that are more likely to hire young people again, not because all young people are going to do this, but because they're a few squeaky wheels are being paid attention to is there any way out of this or we just headed straight for bonfires full of young adult novel. Yeah. No, we're just doomed, no. I so I don't see any reason why this would come the things I'm concerned about would just suddenly end of their own accord. I think they're likely to continue getting worse as these people increasingly move off of campuses, unless there is a sustained effort to really push back on them. There has been to some degree on campuses. I think last year was maybe a down year for some of the, the shutdowns, or at least I thought that until the runs ullivan thing and is, there had been administrators, who have challenged student even other students. I mean, the people who wanna like shut down or kill, or whatever Charles Murray will if they feel like they've lost the room. If the other students stand up and say, shut up. I want to hear him. They backed down, but it's when they think they have like an informal power that no one's going to criticize them. That's when they get away with this. I conclude with at the chargers. Marie? Event. I was at in Michigan. I, I keep returning to because it was such a good example of the thing. I'm talking about the, the, the mob briefly fell silent when a student who was a who was a minority. I think a Arabian minority stood up and said, well, I don't I don't think I agree with Charles Murray. But I'm here to hear what he actually has to say. And then they, they had to they had to, you know, kind of the change what their plan was for the rest of the event so that so I think challenging some of these people can work has worked in some situations. I would like to see more of that. But for the time, being we may be dealing with, with he you're young adult novels will be. We'll be harder to read. All right. Well, let's go get a drink that book is panic attack young radicals age Trump. It is available for preorder now on Amazon. So go ahead and lineup and get it Bobby swabbing. Thanks for. My pleasure. Thank you.
Ep 397 | Delivering Groceries Is Too DANGEROUS
"Hey hey hey. Hey it is party tom. Welcome to another episode of the chad. Prager show hanging out here studio twenty two by myself at the moment Few things. I want to talk to you about on this episode chance to solis ginger rapper and candy ethiopian. Opium sitting over there at the helm of the mothership. I didn't mean to imply that. I was completely alone. I just mean out here on set. You guys are over there. Actually in charge right. I can almost hear the home from the collective brain power. that's over there Kansas has given me a couple of different things. I wanna own a share some interesting stories with you today as we get into it. I wanna remind every biden day that Tomorrow night going to be in franklin tennessee. attract going to be at the marriott. Cool springs convention center franklin tennessee and then on february thirteenth and fourteenth going to be in always want to always want to call it the casino. But it's not horseshoe bay resort austin texas so go to watch chad dot com and get your tickets and information and get over there. There were forty one thousand new jobs reported in the last month. Forty one thousand three hundred thirty million people in america for forty one thousand. I think this is what we have to look forward to in the brand new. A biden administration the biden administration. That's what i'm calling it. Kansas dismal horrific job report numbers if employers across america only hiring forty thousand people a month we are in trouble mall and not to mention the fact that so many other things through these executive orders are causing people to lose their jobs which is pretty insane yes every single. One of those jobs matters a lot of stuff. Lots of stuff. I want to try to. I'm gonna share some stories with you today. That i think you're going to appreciate just some stories from different perspectives. And i hope that you will be able to see a little bit. Of what else were dealing with in the world today from other people's a again perspectives. Because right now we're kind of in a situation where we're pretty narrow minded. We've gotten laser focused. Our field of vision has gotten very very small. We're so focused on the things that affect us and influence spare especially right now in the midst of lockdowns and corona virus and Job loss and job changes and reduced capacities and and we can't travel as much as we used to. And with all of this stuff shut down the way it is. It's very easy to get very focused like navel-gazing and kind of dragging your nose in the dirt. Because you're so focused on self. I want to pick her is up and look at the horizons a little bit and see that there's other people out there who dealing with things too and i want to also encourage you guys. You've heard me talk about new social media platform this out there and i want to encourage you guys to go out there. Join up and follow me. Chad prey on free space. Free space is a new It's an algorithm free Just like you want it to be a platform social media. You could imagine the functionality and the look of an instagram but the interaction ability of facebook and some of the direct capability of bringing in youtube videos. It's pretty exciting ed. So we're excited to partner with those guys over there. And i want you to get over there and be a part of it. This isn't an ad in any way shape or form. I'm not promoting anything or making anything off of it. I just want you guys to be on platforms of free speech And so as we do this. I want us to be able to share these perspectives together. And so much of what we are wanting to share with one another as a community is getting shut down because a social media so You i been telling you guys that this was coming and it's coming to go out there enjoying free space I know that a lot of you guys probably never crossed your mind. That co vid could cost you your home right Well cybercrimes up seventy five percent since the pandemic hit and by far the most serious cybercrime to worry about is home title theft. That's right home. Title cybercriminals foreign and domestic after our homes. And it's so much easier than you could ever imagine for them to get them because the title documents to our homes or online and the find your home's title forged your signature on a quick claim deed stating you soldier home to him and then takes out loans against your home leaving you with the debt. You don't even know until the late payments in the eviction notices start showing up insurance doesn't cover you and neither do common identity theft programs. That's why protect my home at home. Title lock the instant home title lock detect. Someone tampering with my home's title. They helped shut it down. Go to home title log dot com and register your address to see if you're already a victim and then use code radio to receive thirty three days of protection that's code radio at home title. Loc dot com home tidal lock dot com and we will be right back the broncos reading a couple of messages. They're from social media. If you wanna send. I try to read as many as i possibly can stevie same way. You try to raise mini. I read as many as i can messages Emails and i do have a ton of emails right now and i'm trying to everybody wants to know who won the car crash Story and pictures. Yeah i have no idea. Did they send you the big show. I've got hundreds and hundreds of emails but now starting to get the emails. Hey who won that. I haven't heard anything about it. I'm still going through the one you weren't in studio said sending. That was a lisa page deal. She said sitting in your car crash pictures and we'll send a t shirt to. I don't know if it was the worst one or the are we sending her t shirt or senator obama among okay. I think we're sending Chad brady show or a fact. Pack or something like that okay. We'll we'll make sure we pick a winner come into you. Yes and but now starting to get the follow up emails. Hey what happened about this. It's still happening. But there's hundreds or. You're going to hook suspense suspense we. We're still good for it. I promise you we got plenty of t. We'll send you back to messages and stuff like that on facebook. I get a lot every day. So my point in bringing that up is if you want to send us messages on twitter or facebook or instagram. Here's a trick. Get to the point. Get to the point. Gotta read a novel every time somebody sends a deal. It's a book it's a book. I mean if i gotta keep scrolling like i need to see it. I need to see it if you want it read. There's so many that come in. Here's the deal if you want to read and this is me bitch and it needs to be unable to see it all on one screen bullet point. I gotta keep scrolling. And i'm and i'm five screens in your message. I'm lost i. Don't i don't have. I can't respond to those too much. I mean if you if you want to write the constitution and send it to me. I there's no way. I can't read it. I promise you can look at our text messages back and forth each other and their straight to the point one two words. It's all its own. It's quick until the point and we always talked to tex which means it's totally screwed up. Yep in you just have to interpret. It didn't deal with it because we don't correct. We don't fix it. Did you gain weight through this. Pandemic thing i did but i'm back to drop. Yeah i'm by vibe. Really inviting five or six pounds. Ain't nothing gained twenty now. My weight does anyway but usually within ten pounds now then. It went up to twenty pounds as covid nineteen cases spike around the country. Sodas demand for s'mores in american homes chocolate and candy. Sales have been on the rise since the start of the pandemic as people cooped up inside their homes surging for every small occasion celebrate. chocolate sales. Were forty percent fifty percent higher in areas with an increasing number of covid nineteen cases. Interesting i might have to buy some stock in hurt. There might be some link between chocolate and couldn't be cova be lay off. The chocolate diabetic overweight is going to kill you. That kind of thing. Hershey see says that wherever covid cases were elevated counts elevated. There's an increase in s'mores ingredients. That's amazing throughout the entire year seasons was one of the key drivers as consumers really wanted the comfort and the normalcy associated with seasonal traditions and rituals at a time when cova uprooted their lives. So yeah that's probably not the healthiest thing to be doing age of a pandemic but whatever comforts you. I'm not all about one bite once a year. I'm good i don't eat. I don't either but that just combination is. I'm good for one by dislike sweets. I'm not opposed sweets. Just don't have like a desire. Never like oh. I just need me so i just need a cookie but i make up for it with potatoes. Any form or fashion. You eat potatoes. Potatoes florida man. Of course it will. Oh florida man. Corset weary is steals car carrying thirty vials of covid nineteen vaccine. That's well first of all the inject enough of it. can you get. That's what he's thinking. Hey man you kill plays. I can score some at hydrochloride pete. In weeks Florida authorities are searching for a man. They believe stole a car that contained thirty miles of the covid nineteen vaccine on wednesday. The vehicle was stolen from the strawberry festival grounds. Kansas who the hell has got thirty miles of covid vaccine. One who's got it was an hyundai accent. Two thousand eighteen hyundai accent and all of them were refrigerated at the time of the theft. Police released surveillance video. The suspect described as a man in his twenties with long hair. A cops say the keys had been in the car's ignition. My opinion if the keys are left in the ignition. Is it really stealing. It was kind of a. It's like open. Invitation your ass. Cummings like maybe he's just borrowing it. Yeah go to walmart or or goes not wired attractor exactly. I don't know anybody that things like that. Yeah that's kind of weird first of all. Do we know that this hippie at the strawberry festival knew that there were vaccines in the car. Why is it going to be a hippie. Does it says he had long hair. He's a man in his twenty year. A hippie not even close to hippie hippie no i just. I don't bike haircut part. Give him a street grid in the hippy world. Oh my gosh. So i mean this is. This is a funny I'm telling you. I told you in the inter talking about people's perspectives You might be going through a lot of things but Chocolate and car theft. It's that's you can do that. Here's another thing that you guys can do to cope these days. United nations mocked for a tweet. Saying we must normalize men crying. United nations was roundly ridiculed on twitter this past week for offering a list of things that must be normalized for men. The first of which was crying this morning. Comey's i woke up and said i had to drive away to urban crowd a little bit. Look dude i might. I might cry. I need to cry. But i'm not going out looking for reasons to it are looking for people to do it in front of y'all stay right here. I'm fixing on my cry. But i'm not going to walk out in the street and yell at everybody look at me doing it. The other things that must be normalized for men according to the u ins. First of all what point. Where did the damn. United nations become oprah when i started crying. What is it their business. What men do. Why are they trying to normalize mid socio social bag your sociological behaviour. So men according to un's entity for gender equality and the empowerment of women. There it is. That's the problem chance. That's the problem. We could talk about this now. The candidates out of the just one is all to become these crybaby men. Let me put this to grab him by the no. I wasn't going to say. I was gonna say these pussy. Willow men okay you see. Weeping weeping pussy willow men. Can i say that that have an exactly what you just want to make. Sure that i'm Saying everything to keep it politically correct. Because candice just walked back in the stands. Were you aware that the un the united nations has an entity call the gender equality and the empowerment of. Did you know that was the thing. That's that's the thing what what they want men to do is sharing the care showing emotions seeking help and sharing feelings okay. They're not wrong. Then i wrong i just don't need to. I just don't need to make a thing out of it. I should share my feelings. Steve you should share your feelings. I share my feelings on a regular basis. Yeah well you don sleeve. I'm real sensitive. You should share the care. I share care. You should show emotions anger. Anger comes out. Sometimes that's the that's like crying. The difference thing exactly just let that emotion out seek help to seek help i see. I see a therapist on a semi regular basis. I need i need. I need this number number. It's in your phone is it. Yeah okay my life coach to you. Have number two. Oh yeah yeah all right. He lives up here. I'll talk to him every day. Oh my god like up in the morning. My life coach. Well i need somebody that takes copay. I can invoice you. Twitter twitter was mocking them. Obviously let me let me just. Let's take it one step. Let let me show you a man who got in touch with his feelings. Okay i want. I want to show you what this looks like. If the un has its way former wwe wrestler gabby tuft came out as transgender. This week calling her personal saga a thrilling story of gender transitioning. That little picture gabby up there. Now there's gabby on the left before where it started. This is gabby on the right after where it is today now see. I don't really like this. You know this is false advertisement right here. Because if i walked into a bar and i saw these two people sitting side by side while they couldn't do that but you know that guy on the left. That'd be like all right the one on the right though. I probably walk up and start chatting with. Yeah it's a lot of women tyler. Rex is the name that she wrestled under in the late. Two thousands in early two thousand. Ten's released an extensive an extended interview to set to air friday on xtra gabby is about to share her thrilling story of gender transitioning from former. Wwe superstar bodybuilder fitness guru motivational speaker. Motorcycle racer a fun. Loving and fabulous female. She has been finally set free. It is ready to rule her world. I got closer picture down okay. Track probably wouldn't go talk to her. I don't care how much hormone therapy you do. You can't get rid of all that scruff. You just can't do it. Let me just give you that resume again. Wwe superstar bodybuilder fitness guru motivational speaker. Motorcycle racer the two hundred seventy pound gabby would that really deep voice. Wow this is me. Unashamed unabashedly me. This is the side of me. That's hidden in the shadows afraid and fearful of what the world would think afraid what my family friends followers would say or do Good for good for gabby. I'm proud good for you. Know what that person has no effect on my life. Not not a single bit. Go do it. And if that's what makes you happy you come out and be happy. I would much rather embrace that and somebody living their own deal again cramming down my throat then the un telling me that. I say cram it down your throat about it. Nothing about it. But i mean. I don't i don't know what their sexual preferences but anyway good good for good for her. Did you see kansas hundred biden. Coming out with a new memoir studies coming out and no. He's not he's not gay either but he's going to have he's going to have a memoir which is going to involve bang. You're dead brother's wife and hookers. Strippers knocking them up. Doing blow and crack and releasing weird stuff on a laptop and how to never be able to rent a car from ever took place. When you leave when you leave cocaine in the rental car they probably will put you on the dnr. Yeah the do not dnr. You got on there and you didn't even leave anything in a car. Just they just didn't check in on several. Do not rent lis- believes i'm not jesse payton who told The guy the thing he was going to punch him in the mouth. So he's on the enterprise. Do not rent list. Yeah oh my gosh. Hey got a new one. Got a brand new partner to the show. I don't know about you. But i feel like i'm always looking at a screen Now more than ever. And whether you're an avid news watcher or in serious. Need of a distraction unplugging yourself as easier said than done one of my favorite ways to rest. My eyes is still get the content. I'm itching for is about putting in my rake on wireless earbuds and listening to something. Great whether you're catching up on your favorite news. Podcast bringing audio book India head or powering through you work out with a pumped up playlist a pair of ray cons in your ears can make all the difference dangling wires or stems to get in your way. Ray khan's come in a range of stylish colors but always with comfortable in ear fit for a more discreet. Look ray coombs are built to perform anywhere anytime with water and sweat resistant and Construction and bluetooth that pairs quickly and seamlessly and with enough battery. Life for six hours of playtime. You can unplug it for a while and just are you gonna blow yourself for a while and plug in your rake on earbuds. The best part recon makes great. Sound accessible to everyone with wireless earbuds starting at half the price of the other premium audio brands. They're currently offering fifteen percent off all of their products for my listeners and watchers. And here's what you've got to do to get it go to by con dot com slash. Watch chad and that's it. You'll get fifteen percent off your entire rake on order so feel free to grab a pair and spare as fifteen percent off at by ray. Khan dot com slash. Watch chad. we'll be right back. Hey here's some good news not really good. News shootings and murders in spite across the country during the covid. Nineteen pandemic of all. The twenty. Twenty was terrible. One of the worst was. It's violence say everybody's talking about you. Just don't care about grandma and grandpa you just you just need to shut down and you need to distance and you need a mama blah blah blah. But we don't talk about the murders that happened. Because of this study found the murder rate in america saw large and troubling increase. It has no modern precedent in his plainly the fruit of the anti policing movement. The country hasn't seen an increase in homicides more than thirteen percent for a half century but murder across america soared by thirty percent from two thousand and nineteen to two thousand twenty and the national commission of covid nineteen in criminal justice. That's that's a commission. Wow they can make everything that just. I bet they really struggle on how to you know somebody gets murdered murder. They have covid what we is. It murder is it covert. Yeah you got to test them. They got a knife stuck in their head. But you've got to test them. You do homicide. Rates were higher during every month of twenty twenty relative to rates from the previous year based on a sample of thirty four cities including new york. Homicide rate rose from forty. Three percent. Rose forty three percent one hundred thirty one more killings while chicago. Salt two hundred and seventy eight. More with fifty. Five percent shocker. We'll shut down the economy. Lock everybody in their houses. And that's what's going to happen. Shut down the communities. You're asking it's a you know it you're asking for. Yeah well it's interesting. Bill de blasio mayor of new york said it's clearly related in part to the coronavirus into the fact that people were cooped up everybody but the murders i guess but i mean it even jumped in january and february which was pre pandemic. The murder rate jumped thirty two point. Five percent in new york. More significant was thirty. Seven point two percent uptick seen in june august the precipitous rise after civil unrest following the death of george floyd at the hands of minneapolis. Police saint louis fifty your high setting things on fire. I'm sure somehow the murder rate. I don't see trump's anywhere in the article to find where trump's fall somewhere. It's gotta be gotta be his subduing the the the report warns. Urgent action is needed. We're all gonna get murder. We're all getting murdered up in here. How'd you babies. How'd you is subduing the pandemic increasing confidence in the police. And justice system and the implementing proven anti-violence strategies will be necessary to achieve a durable peace in the nation cities. but we gotta fund the. Please leave it. If they're going to do that. They needed be constitutional. Carry letter by. Take care of themselves now. It'll work out pretty fast. I'm sure it will. You can't say black lives matter by the way remember you had to say black lives matter. Yeah they had everybody in the streets and they were like you've got to say black say black lives matter say black lives matter now. They don't want you to say black lives matter. If you're still appropriating black culture all right okay. That's a appropriating black culture. That's i don't even know where to go with that. I need you. Well let's dig into a little bit a few days after george floyd was murdered. This author tweeted. I'm seeing a lot of people who actively appropriate black culture posting about this police brutality. As if they're not also implicated in this system of oppression. The author says posted this because as a caribbean person of indian descent. Here we go. Not even blackbird dark skin. But you're not african american but let's let's go with. I saw so many people from my own community doing this and it was mind boggling to me that they didn't understand the parallel the post reach more than ten thousand people with a fair amount of support and some detractors. The majority of people responded with a clap emoji. Yes thank you comments nephew. Who said things like this is ridiculous. Comparison people just want something to be offended by even when others trying to show support after a few weeks of back and forth became clear that so many people in my mentions didn't realize cultural appropriation which occurs when a member of a dominant culture uses elements of another more marginalized groups. Identity for profit or in a dismissive way can actually cause harm for the group whose identity is being commandeered candice. I will never commandeer your culture guy. I love you and i love your people and i will never appropriate anything about your people. Yeah i can you cancel that order for the candidacy. the opium t shirts practical. Sometimes we sometimes he bowl is going to bowl. We've seen it time and again non black person dresses in a way that one would attribute to the black culture. It's just fashion. They say however the black person who's style is being imitated is seen as a thug for wearing the same thing these harmful stereotypes part of the reason. Black people are more heavily targeted by police. To begin with or consider this a non black person steve. Where's cornrows candice. It's a hairstyle they can take on and off as they pleased without consequences. If a black person where's cornrows. They can expect a considerable amount of prejudice for wearing this hairstyle. Just so you know all right just so you know steve. All right do so. We're basing hairstyle corner of myself like half cornrows just half and then let the. Yeah i good looking girl man down in jamaica. You know down in the caribbean and stuff like that. It looks painful. Here's little nuts and stuff. Here we go. And what about the mini non black people who exploit black culture for profit just think about the most popular white creators garnered millions of views per tick tock video and secured brand deals by performing dance. Choreographed dances choreographed by black dancers. Should this be considered appropriation. Even racist yes because white creators are profiting off of a culture created by black people without giving them any credit for it. Okay so i have to be real careful because this is not an issue that i'm having a problem. So how many times of black people profited off of things that white people created. Let's go there because let's face it folks contrary to what you're revisionist history wants to teach you black people in create everything in the world. Now if i if. I have no matter what you say. They're going to come back and say well. We created this week. That no black person did it first. Black president i save probably some white caveman out. There invented the wheel and fire now. Black guy's name was cecil debu and he created the wheel and and and it was and it was tyrone google who created fire. That's the way it's gonna go but let's face it but did he follow patent for black cave guy that did it came black guy okay. So let's be honest if you appropriate black culture. You're contributing to the racist system as well so if you don't understand why people would get angry at comments like this. It's just a hairstyle it's just an accent or just a pair of genes this cultural appropriation about more than wearing a certain outfit. Changing the way you speak dancing a particular way or choosing us pacific look. It's about power dynamics racism. Steve don't wear baggy pants Baggy pants were exclusive to black people. I mean that. Isn't that a racist insinuation right there. You're stereotyping to say that cornrows only belonged to black people. You know what though. I as you're talking about this. I'm thinking about this. There was many times when i was a little kid. You know you know my pull your pants up. You know because you don't have an ass. Okay but i remember you know. Tell them kids. Pull your pants up you know. Pull them up right. You never did that. Emulate a black person. No that's i'm trying to figure out well this you got to give credit where it's due steve. Just from appropriate every culture. I bring into my household. I think. That's what makes america week inappropriate culture. Well let me just say this before we go to break because you need to learn steve to acknowledge the struggle of the black community when you wear cornrows okay and if you change your accent address in a way this influenced by black culture. No can't do that. You need to fight racism every day. And don't let racist comments slip by morgan wallin Do i allow anti now known as g money. Wallin she money while yeah. Okay wallin Do i allow anti-black. Mr continuing my home or even when it does to speak up okay do i value black louder just black culture. A big difference. Hey i got some great news for our from our friends at patriot mobile. They just expanded their coverage dramatically. Which is you're gonna make it a whole lot. Easier for even more americans to dump the big-name carriers who charged way too much and then donate your money to leftist causes proud partner with patriot mobile because they never send a penny to the left and they'll never silence you. And they're the only christian conservative wireless provider out there. Plus you can switch with confidence because they use the same network as the larger providers but charge a whole lot. Less switching is easy. You can keep your phone number. Bring your own phone or get a new one from them. You build your own. Bundle with multi line discounts and save even more just go to patriot mobile dot com slash and call their us-based customer service team. That's easier you'd call them at nine seven two patriot. Nine seven patriot. Patriot veterans first responders. Save even more and this month. Give free premier activation. They'll set it up for you with a special gift in use offer code c. h. a. d. I spell it chad. Go to patriot. Mobile dot com slash chatter on seventy two patriot. We'll be right back. I promised everybody in the intro. We're gonna talk about people's perspectives man. That's a perspective perspective as you gotta quit navel-gazing man quit focusing on yourself. Steve yeah get up there and realize the world out there. There's other things to be if they're offended by other things and we need to get into nope. I've you cried today. I told you. I cried this morning. Did you yeah. Which crying about. Because i was like. I'm going over to the studio. We go quit your crime Here's a great one. Candice loves the torture me. With these articles from cosmopolitan. i should get a subscription chance at this stage in the game. I've read all the cosmopolitan or do they still print magazines all online. The i mean. I see magazines like in stores. Yeah i don't either anymore. But i i see them but does anyone get them. I don't get any magazine. Subscriptions you know one of the most liberating enough one of liberating things for me through corona virus. And all this stuff that's gone on is i. Don't go to stores anymore right and because you ruined it for me. I don't wanna be judged for not wearing a mask. I don't want you know i put my money where my mouth is if you want. If you don't want me to be around you and your freight. I'm gonna make you sick fine. I'm just going to stay home. You can deliver it to me. Delivered to me and let it hurts. The economy will maybe it does. But i can't tell you the last time. I went into a walmart as years. Our won't go can't stand won't go. I might hop into the local mom and pop grocery or something. Yeah i'll pay extra a little extra for for some stuff go mark pagel's over there at rendon meets get me over there. I'd much rather support local folks now and pay a little extra to go into a target or walmart. Whatever i don't go so i don't know what the magazine stands hold anymore. Yeah i don't. I don't i growing up. You always all your. You got a newspaper thrown in your yard and your driveway every morning. Yeah maha everybody. You don't see that anymore. I don't see a newspaper guy driving our neighborhood though in newspapers. Yeah people don't read the yeah it's It's a going away. Needs to come back though. Like a like vinyl records yeah. I don't think it's quite the same. But maybe not but there is something to be said about reading an actual news story in a newspaper and anyway this person wrote an article. I shop your online grocery orders and it's scary out there. While the corona virus pandemic continues to spread throughout the world more and more states have issued. Stay at home. Orders which have increase the use in grocery delivery services like instacart but as the dangers of shopping have grown larger gig. Economy workers have organized with the gig. workers collective. Where do these people come up with these names. I mean the un wants you to cry. Because they're part of some female collective gig workers collective group that represents instacart shoppers. Who announced that. They were going on strike against the app in march shoppers. Ass instacart for things. Such as hazard pay more protective personal equipment like hand. Sanitizer instacart responded to these concerns here. cosmopolitan spoke to one of the organizers. La la la la la la la and if they had to say actually johnson thirty one what they could just go get another job something. You don't like the way it is. Just go get a job. Philosophy get kicked your own and gas job your pipeline job. You just go get another job. Code gig work since about two thousand thirteen. I've done house cleaning childcare. Pet sitting event organizing anything like that. I've been doing grocery delivery since two thousand eighteen. I'm single mom son's seven years old I used to be a veterinarian assistant but that kind of job just does not work schedule is with a single parent. This gives me flexibility Before i realized that everything was going to be shut down due to covid nineteen. I noticed that grocery delivery of going absolutely haywire. All of a sudden people buying weird things and if something was out of stock they were just buying all of the something else. Whatever that means just buying all of something else so you go into the store and there would be no pasta rice and then as a washington gradually turned into stay at home order. People really started to panic. They understood that they should stay home. And that's when they started turning the grocery delivery curbside. I don't do delivered to the house in terms of costs four dollars. I mean that's what it costs for them to go get it and i have to make sure that no substitution. Because i don't need some of the substitions we'll send you a giant is telling you the murder rates what they are in cities across america. You might want to stay home not going to. We're already at a pretty business pretty busy business beforehand but after the stay at home mandates. We definitely saw more orders on instacart in particular. Now that we're in the midst of a pandemic shops take longer blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Okay few weeks ago. I was on the mindset that i shouldn't use gloves and masks because i don't want to hoard from healthcare professionals so so altruistic and they're not available in stores anyway but now i'm wearing a cloth mask. I wash my hands more than i've ever watched them in my life sometimes in stores. The bathrooms are closed. So we can't go in and use real soap and water. I have to use hand sanitizer in between clean my hands when i go to the store in between certain departments other store i wash my hands. So this person basically is saying they're going to get sick And they're gonna get an illness. They're going to give to their family or their customers because they this these these stores aren't providing them a place to truly wash their hands. Okay i've definitely seen altercations in parking. Lots of seeing more store security just exhausted. Feel you feeling sighting from all the people around you. The checkers the other customers. I mean this person's really having a rough if we create a sterile environment right now in five years from now ten years from now everything that comes across our system gonna shut us down everything it's Go get dirty kids so they went on strike. They don't feel safe now the cdc recommendations of chain. We don't feel safe and we can't as a whole afford this sort of protective equipment among other things. We're asking for tips minimums tip minimums and clear hazard. Pay five dollars per shop. We're asking for them to provide. Pb mostly just disinfectant. Sanitizer gloves and mask would have been great. They were But we were really concerned about the lack of ability to do washing. That's what we're at man. People can't wash their hands and they're really getting torn up over this. Our world is bro. I mean we're at a point now where it's over with dude. I mean it's totally over with like like like this is our major issue like maybe it's a good thing. I wash my hands thing like we're not worried about the fact that they just arrested eight iranians that just came across the mexican border with their some new stations that one on not even on their eight or eleven iranians that they came across the mexican border. And we're not worried about that. No more hand and it doesn't matter if they were terrorist or not. It doesn't matter. They illegally trying to come in our country. They don't care what race you are with. Keller yarns exactly they're not guatemalans mexicans on durance and i'm sure they were in that country illegally mexico illegally. They were iranians de. I don't know if you guys own a map. But the direct route from iran to america which by the way there has been a travel ban from iran and rightfully. So it's not. Mexico is not on the direct route. No you don't sneak under the fence from mexico my gosh. So that's that's our that's our issue. I'm gonna i'm gonna need to. I'm going to need to take out some stock in her. She's gonna need takeout stock and instacart. Because they're gonna start making their changes man they also they more than three hundred thousand workers know they hired three hundred thousand more workers trying to ensure their customers. Don't have to wait. You know that is just one big cesspool. It kovic insta. Probably so but it. It tells you they're hiring because everybody else has laid off and stuff and it created these jobs that necessarily weren't there and I use door dash lot. You know you bring out food to the house that kind of thing and say a lot. cut it way out almost completely out now but i've used it a lot but during this cove we were using it and i started noticing that when i have somebody. They're pulling up in a mercedes in it's He could tell us a housewife for somebody. That professional door dashing food. They went after they're working and i have certain delivery services that i have the same delivery people who come make i make sure they get tipped for me because one of the things people don't know this one of the things that i found out is there are certain stores that will keep the tips. They don't give them to their delivery person cash so i make sure they get it. Make sure your delivery people get it and they but a lot of these stores out there. I become such a regular customer that they will stock certain things knowing that. I'm just the only one who buys like kota say i know exactly what you're talking about. I'm the one who buys it. I'm the one who wants it. And my six bottles. A week keeps them. God bless you. George strait for the music and for the tequila But anyway that's the world we're living in to help. George strait has never said anything like morgan. Walden said i've i've can you imagine singer ever has anyway. We'll be right back as the weekend. Stephen a drink. Yeah the weekend I guess i'm a briton. Mexican culture by drinking does akis probably so is that is. That is that the case candidate. You think i'm in trouble by drinking mexican beer. If that's the case where we appropriate chinese culture. Most everything we got made in china true. I had to chairs showed up the other day. I had to put together and Sure sure enough made in china he. It's i had ordered these real nice Dining set you know table and chairs and all this kind of stuff will In this was years ago. And i mean real good man. These are great wooden chairs. The it's still in my house wants to my house but it was short two chairs. So i've found the model number seven order in the came from vietnam slagging. I thought i was buying. You know you gotta let close if you want the paid for it. It wasn't vietnam. Price it was it was amish price. Hey this weekend come out and hang with us. Have a drink with us At the cool springs convention center marriott in franklin tennessee. Going to be there jesse. Payton the very funny jesse is going to be there with me and party. Fausto will be there of course kentucky it come and see us. In austin texas at the horseshoe bay resort to nights february thirteenth fourteenth. You can bring you valentine and next to valentine Bring all the girls anyway. I want you guys come on. Hang out with us in the place to figure that out and how to do that and where to go. And where to get tickets and information as watch. Chad dot com. Go check us out. That's where all the fun stuff is. Hope you guys have a fantastic weekend. Steve buddy cheers. My friend don't culturally appropriate. Anything all right. I'm trying not to mail to nashville soon as we do here. And let's go where we're going but let's go appropriate some nashville culture. Let's go get pissed off. Go eat some hot chicken. Yeah had he sounds good. We're headed in hardy fouls right now. That's right coming in a day early. We can party in nashville reduced capacity. Hey we love your god. Bless you blaze. Tv dot com and talk to you next time back home.
Panic Attack with Robby Soave
"Did you don't network? We need a rollback the state we spy on all of our own citizens. Our prisons are loaded with non violent drug offenders. If you wanna know who America's next enemy is look at he were funding right now. Other than one of these problems are government way, too. Big. Work. Hello. Hello, everybody. And welcome to a brand new episode of part of the problem. It is our one on one Wednesday series. And I'm very excited for this show. Got a great guest in today. You know, he's an author. He writes, for reason magazine. He also has a brand new book at which we're going to talk a lot about today and pound for pound best hair in the liberty movement. I would say Robbie swath. How are you, sir? Thank you. Thanks for coming in. So you're here in New York on your starting your book tour. That's right. So you have a brand new book out. Tell us about it. It's panic attack young radicals in the age of Trump. Right. It's I read it. I really loved it thought it was excellent so congratulations. And you've got now you've you're off to the races. The good people know. So it's about the what, what I've been covering for reason for the last few years, which is a phenomenon. I think most people are aware of, and interested in which is what's changed on college campus. Ses. What's changed with activists culture on the left? A little bit on the right? But mostly about the new, progressivism that because of their activism is at odds with some of the things that we libertarians used to, like about the left their pro free spree, their pro free speech pro do process things like that. The new left hates these values. They're at odds with kind of radical conception of safety, which is that things you do. Or say that make them feel uncomfortable are not should not be within the bounds of protected free expression, and they've really changed the culture on campus last, I would say ten years, especially at elite institutions, you had all these shutdowns of conservative speakers. But even I talked to liberal professors who are terrified of their students. They're afraid they're going to be investigated by the students are going to call them to be investigated. And it happens all the time, because they say something again is a leftist professor. They say something about maybe race or gender that is somehow out of step with the new wo- cry. And just like that they'll be investigated. It seems to me. And I'm like, you know, obviously an outsider from that new woke progressive crowd. But I wonder it must be so terrifying to be in it because you can always say the wrong thing by their rules. Anybody is capable of being a Nazi tomorrow, with one slip up. It's, it's really quite a totalitarian world. It's been interesting to consume the young adult novel community in the last few months fast. I didn't even know such thing existed until recently. So at people who write a young adult novels. There are reviewers for these sensitivity reviewers are young people just posting they will destroy these books. They've gotten several people to, to cancel their books. Even if they've gotten significant advances because the book is somehow problematic in some way, and they were the stupidest criticisms. There's one book, so it's this is a fantasy book about, like Russian history and underground, sorcerer's or something. But there's a there's slavery in again, in the fictitious world of this book, and then the, the woke reviewers saying, how dare you appropriate the story of the American South and set it in Russia. You can't do that, like as if the American South was the only place in human history to ever experience slavery, as you. Well know Russia, of course. Millions of slaves right close to one hundred year. Right. So this is a totally wrong criticism. And they got this book canceled. This is I mean these are these are villagers pitchforks mentality on the left and you so you see it at campuses. You see it on social media. I think we're gonna see it more and more in companies that accidentally stupidly, hire young people. And, and they have they have a if you say something or do something, or think something problematic. We will call you out. We will cancel you. You can't do that, that impacts our safety, one of the things that really stood out to me the most in the book that I think illustrates this, you know, how far the left has come more than anything else. When you talk about the free speech event at Berkeley in the sixties where they have an actual Neo Nazi as well as a black nationalists was Malcolm X. Yeah. Alchemy came to speak there, and they had. Huge event to display how much the leftists at Berkeley believe in free speech. And then you contrast that with my leeann oppa Lous coming to Berkeley a couple years ago, and the shit show and was hundreds of thousands of dollars. They had to spend on security for antifa threats and so talk a little bit about the, the sixties at Berkeley. And what they did there. I mean, the sixties in the sixties Berkeley was the birthplace of the free speech movement. It used to be that a coalition of students. Many of them on the left also students on the right. They came together to say the repressive policies at Berkeley, and other campuses saying you couldn't bring outside speakers you couldn't advocate for political causes all that they said, Nope, we, we believe in the first amendment. We demand the right to engage in whatever speech, we want, and they, they this was this protest movement that one, they got the policies rescinded and yeah, they, they brought all sorts of controversial people to campus including an actual Nazi to, to make a free speech point actually, the kid. Again, these are the leftist progressive kids, they dressed in Nazi costumes to advertise the event, and then nobody should nobody heckled. The guy they laughed at him after he spoke. They heard what he had to say. They made fun of him. And that was that, and then he went on his way can you imagine them? And this was only twenty years after the threat of Naziism is actually a thing now, we're like, you know, half a century more than that removed from it. And if you did that today, there would be there'd be congressional hearings on it. We're, we're actually I testified before congress three weeks ago on rising hate crimes, white nationalism, it really is hard to imagine. I mean, you know, all those kids culturally appropriate from the Nazis their uniform province. I know that's very that's there in digit call them out. They do have a certain cadence. Yes. By the way, that woke social Justice warriors speak with. It's very valley girl. There's certain things that they like to do they to all caps on Twitter and things like that. There's a thing where everything ends in question. But and they say very obvious things as if they're profound. Maybe we should just not rape. Like he's like, what, what point I agree? Or it's like, yeah, I agree. So does just about everybody, what snap actually clapping, too aggressive, aggressive triggering it really is almost like something out of cartoon like they're a parody of themselves. But at the same time as, as you get out in the book it's, it's very real phenomenon that kind of has to be grappled with it's easy for, you know, a lot of people have made their names, kind of slapping, down social Justice warriors, Ben Shapiro Jordan Peterson come to mind like these guys rose to prominence of videos of them destroying some eighteen year old who's. Really a caricature of. I mean, there's certain in these absurd views like it's a fact that there's seventy two genders. It's like well, why not seventy four or seventy one like why does it have to be this very silly things? But they have as you've said, they have a lot of influence. And these, these liberal professors are terrified and rightfully so. Terrified of them, you go through in the book a few of the different examples where professors and, and the example, the president of the university was forced to resign kind of creepy now. Yeah. I'm I've never tried to overstep. I'm not trying to scare people are overstate the problem. You know, there's plenty of campuses where everything went fine. They had speaker. You know, it's not as much generational problem because it's not that all young people are like this. This is a tiny radical fringe movement that has managed to have a powerful effect at some of our most elite institutions just read the thing, I most worked up about just recently, that's not even in the book because this happened after. Is, is Harvard. The faculty, faculty dean, Ron Sullivan, they fired this man as faculty and he's a law professor. You know, this is a man with criminal Justice expertise advised. Senator Obama helped free wrongfully incarcerated people who as one does when you're, you're defense attorney has represented all sorts of controversial clients represented accused terrorists. This is good thing. These are things that progressives used to say this is very important. This work is, is so vital. And we libertarians agree with them on that, but he decided he would represent Harvey Weinstein and the fifty student activist on campus said this your decision to do this has made the campus an unsafe place. This is unsafe for women because you are representing Harvey Weinstein. There should be an investigation. Harvard said, okay, they did an investigation, and they fired this guy, which is it's, it's outrageous. It is actually the ACLU, which I've had many criticisms of lately, put out a statement. Condemning the students in the university for doing this, which may be very delighted that they did. This is sacrificing fundamental principles fundamental liberal principles for, for, for craziness yet. Really is like that the me too thing. Really and you have a chapter that, that partially deals with this, in the book really became just took off, like, you know, that became the focus of everybody's attention. And it really was. You know, it's, it's a difficult thing, how libertarian should feel about the metoo moment because obviously, there were some positives that came along with. But the idea of due process being thrown out the window. And then this is just the craziest thing ever, not only do process the window. But now guilt, you're guilty for defending somebody for, for helping someone in their due process. That's something that libertarians really can't just look past that. Yeah. I mean, obviously a lot of good is come of the movement due process is a legal. Concepts. You know, you don't have it. If we're if we're just calling out bad behavior. You don't have some right to not have your bad behavior called out if somebody's gonna try to put you in jail for it, then you have a right to defend yourself, so there, so it can go too far in, though, due process, but what has happened on campus very much concerns due process. I mean you have students who've been accused of sexual misconduct who are facing very real disciplinary issues, who are being adjudicated under standards that make a mockery of Justice at the explicit instruction of the Obama administration, Justice department, the education department, yes, office nine stuff, and they told these campuses, the administrators that you had to handle these matters certain way that we're just wild unfriendly and frankly, unconstitutional, the students have, then gone back and sued the university. And they, they win a dramatic number of cases because this was just obviously conflicts. And there's and there's been a bunch of settlements where basically. The universities trapped is that the government saying you had to do it this way, and they know they're going to get sued and they do get sued one of the good things, one of the, the Trump administration has done was was education secretary Betsy DeVos revised some of that guide. And so that was good. Yeah. Which drew quite a bit of hatred. Well, obviously look at Trump hates women doing, you know notified Trump, but yeah, the situation on campus. With regard to do process is just become. I mean you had cases where there was. No, even dispute between a male and female, a third party party objected to their relationship for some way. And the university is investigating. 'cause they're saying what will require to when we learn of misconduct. And there's no accuser. There's no victim. The victim says, I'm not a victim, and they're saying will decide whether you're victim. I mean, how is that not paternalism? Yes, what one of the stories, the one of the first ones that really got national headlines that predated, a lot of this newer hysteria was the Duke lacrosse. Yeah. A situation which really? I that particular situation really think there was a lot to be learned from they there's ESPN did a documentary on it. That is just amazing. It's really incredible. Highly recommend everybody watch it because it, it really poked, a hole in so many of the myths of, of the left-wing social Justice, warriors, like the idea that there's this white privilege that white people get to walk around with, and I mean, look, there's no more whiter more privileged, people, then Duke lacrosse players. Right. Like that is, if you had to draw a cartoon to draw picture of white privilege, they're probably at Duke playing lacrosse like that's the most white privilege. You're maxed out and the alleged victim in the situation was like a black Hooker stripper or something. And I mean, this privilege, yet everybody believed her, and through these kids, right under the bus, and it's not as, if this was a gray area or they had sex that one of them regretted, they were intoxicated. Hurts nothing happened. It was radian later. Yes, she's just a crazy person who made something, I think, to get CPS off her back because she was away from her kid being hammered. It was like it was just made up. An and you can watch the documentary how the college activists all come to. I mean they're outside these kids. Dorm, like screaming. You're a rapist, go home. Or are you protecting them anyway? The season ends up getting cancelled faculty was all against them together. I mean it speaks so privilege. Is it exists? But it situational so you can concert. We have advantage there situations where you do have advantages as a white, man. But then there are situations and their situations where being a man is advantage. But then they're situations disadvantage, like if a woman is accusing you of something and you're in a circumstance where people would be very favorable to her. And that's, that's kind of what's, I think got in a little gets a little lost, and some of this, the intersection -ality framework, that is so important to how the progressive activists view what they're doing. They say there are categories of marginalization, and they stack. So if you're a black person, you're marginalized, but if you're a black woman, you, you have to gotta Agores modulation, if marginalization if you're a gay black women three, and so on, and so on. But then they've also said that these categories go on and on and on and campuses, were, they start to adjudicate slider and Slater categories. And there's teams they're bias there called bias response teams where you're supposed to report to them. If you feel slighted based on one of these protected categories, which include things like ageism and sizes them as well. And, and. Obviously, this is starting to Pune on free speech when you're reporting that someone's at a joke, you didn't like for one of those reasons. One hundred campuses have these things. It's not even that there's no truth to the intersectional for. No. It's like almost something there. But they miss, which is why it's like the logical conclusion of it should just be individualism. Yes, because the truth is that no matter how many categories you come up with really, there's no way to measure them against other categories that you're not even thinking about. I mean, whether somebody has like loving present parents is so much more important than whether you're gay, or straight in terms of, like, how that's going to affect your development as a person your life. There's so many and that's just one that I pulled out of my ass. There's so many different factors. And the idea that I mean, I know he's examples have been you know, all cited but the idea that like Barack Obama's daughters because they're black women are somehow growing up with less privilege. Than white, man. Who's, you know, like mother died of cancer when he was five and his dad's a trucker like? Like the idea of that is, there's a real tension on the left to be between some of these newer, intersectional. It's about identity like race sex gender at cetera. And kind of your older school Marxist leftist to use these things, as distractions at best from the real root struggle, which is economic, which is class, in nature, you see this. All right. Let's take a quick second. Thank our sponsor for today's show, which is blue. You can grab some at blue dot com. Of course if you don't know by now. Blue offers men a performance enhancement for the bedroom at blue dot com. You can get the first Shula bills with the same active ingredients as Viagra Cialis. Chewables can work faster than pills up to twice as fast, the chewables from blue dot com could be taken on a full or empty stomach in online, physician consultant is free. So it's cheaper than those other two it only takes a few minutes to connect with blue dot com, affiliated physician. And if you qualify, you get prescribed. Online quickly. There's no in person doctors visits no awkward conversation. No waiting in line at a pharmacy. It ships directly to your door in, discreet packaging chewables from blue dot com. Are prescribed online by Dr and made in the USA blue will give you the confidence in the bedroom every time you and your partner will love it. And as a great deal for you guys, if you visit blue shoe dot com, you get your first order free when you use the promo code problem, you just pay five dollars for shipping. So that's blue dot com. B L U each dot com, promo code problem. All right, let's get back into the show. This is a big change from Bernie Sanders in twenty sixteen to twenty twenty as we're going into Bernie Sanders is that now he's really trying to, you know, now he talks about racial Justice time because he got away. That's not good enough for the intersectional still fucking eight year old Jew. He know about racial Justice in two thousand nineteen but he's like he's got this thing where he and he said a couple times in two thousand sixteen in this got him in a lot. Trouble where he would basically be like it's all about economic issues. I forget the exact quotes, but it'd be something like, well, it's really about economic Justice is about rich versus poor, and it's not. And this is very offensive through the intersectional people because they're like, no, no, we're not even talking about that stuff. It's all about rehearsing best represents the synthesis of this is, who is very fundamentally about class and economic condition and socialism is the answer to that. But, but she's also obviously fluent in the language of intersection -ality. And so you're gonna see more people like her who are younger who've ERI perfectly. I'm gonna have a lot of content for the next few years. I guess Jesus more. All right. She's impressive. She's well-spoken. She's very smart. People who say that she's not smart are, are Brown. I'm sure she's as smarter smarter than the average member of congress. I mean these oh, yeah. Well, that's yeah. That's no look. She is not yet thirty. Yeah. Yourself elected as one of the most famous politicians. There is something impressive about that. No matter where you follow him. Listen, it's not that she stupid. It's that she is. In many areas, very uninformed and outrageously self-confident. She is, she is like the most selfish shored person ever she believes that she completely has how to reorganize society, and it's not it's not being stupid is that she doesn't she's so certain in herself that she doesn't care if she doesn't have a lot of knowledge in a certain field. She knows she's right? And that dynamic leads to a lot of comedy. It's very easy to ridicule somebody. She she does something that I've noticed a lot of the new, the democratic socialist do, which is they defined socialism, so broadly that no one could possibly be against it. They'll say, well, it's economic participation in your dignity. It it's just, you know, it's just making sure you can live and feel firmed and okay. Well that sounds great. They're, they're, they're not characterizing it as the worker seizing. The means of production. No, they wouldn't be trees, and the political repression that has always. Resulted when we do that they do not talk about it in those. No. And in a sense. Socialism, like, pure state ownership of the means of production old school. Definition of socialism has kind of died like, nobody's really openly ad. I shouldn't say nobody but there's really not too many people who are openly advocating for that, would they do now as they call. Expanding safety nets. Right. Interventionist states socialism, but it's really kind of social democracy is what they're advocate, which is also which Republicans have called that socialism for twenty years. So it's not their fault. They present every move move of the welfare state getting slightly bigger is socialism. And so the democratic socialist said, yes, that's actually most people want that. So we win and they're kinda, right? And they're also they're also they kind of support themselves to. Yeah. So it's kind of, like, you know, Medicare and Medicaid are great. They're just pillars of America. Right. Nothing wrong with that. We're not gonna cut that. I mean maybe Paul Ryan once talked about trimming a little bit. But in general, the Republican position has been we're going to protect that even when when Mitt Romney was accused of cutting Medicare was like Obama cut Medicare. They're backing off that completely, but ObamaCare, socialism. But oh boy. George W Bush, adding Medicare Part, d that was just a good commonsense plan. So it's always a little bit more government than they light is socialism. And then see can come be like, well, I'm really a socialist. I want a lot more government than you like. And none of these terms really have precise meanings. But I agree with you. That that's one time. I think she was on coal Bayer, one of the late night shows, and she said something along they said, we'll define democratic socialism. And she said, democratic socialism is believing that in a moral society, no one should be too poor to live. And there's something brilliant about that. That's right. There's Chinese to at that. How do you refute it? That's number one. And then the other thing, which is a little bit more subtle is that now you are kind of actually positioning, the opponents of democratic socialism, people like me and you, we believe that you should be so poor you die. Right. Moral amtrak. We're that's our position now. So it is, there's something very vague about it. But yeah. I mean there's it's a certainly tactically. Not the dumbest thing ever to have that position organization has grown tremendously. They talking about the democratic socialist, so they are, this is one of my chapters in the book talks about them. They are to some degree. It's later in the book, they're much different than the other activist groups. I survey for the book The Fourth Way, feminist black lives, matter antifa groups like that. The democratic socialists are highly organized. They know what they're doing. They have very large numbers, they, they've grown from like, zero not zero but a couple thousand hippies been around since the group started in the seventies or eighties to fifty thousand the average age has dropped dramatically there. No. What do they are? They are forced to be reckoned with they're having fact on the Democratic Party. Yeah, no question. Yeah, there's no question about that. And I mean, look. They're having they're the ones having we were talking about libertarian moment before the show started. They are having their moment. It probably will end the same way ours did. But I know you. You wrote an article about that a little while back where you were basically talking to democratic socialist from the libertarian perspective and saying, hey, look, just, you know, we felt like we had this big moment coming, and I certainly was one of those people. I mean I really got my heartbroken of when Ron Paul was polling at one point. He was I believe he was tied for number one in Iowa and number one in New Hampshire and it was twenty twelve and he was going around and drawing tens of thousands of people he was breaking fundraising records at the time they've all been broken but he was breaking them at the time. There was all this energy. I felt there's a famous gaffe about this is Ron Paul going. It's happening. It was happening. But look, I thought at well didn't, but there was all this strategy talk about, well, they're taking over all the local parties and libertarians will be there. But it just seemed to me like all the intellectual energy was with the libertarians. The old school Neo cons had just been thoroughly dis-. Credited in every, I mean they were wrong about everything with disastrous results. Ron Paul had this energy. It was a Neville that the libertarians, we're going to kind of take over. And I to me, I was like look, if Ron Paul pulls off winning Iowa and New Hampshire. Whatever happens from there. I always thought I was always one of those kind of conspiratorial libertarians, they'll screw them. They won't let him win the nomination but that didn't matter to me. That was beside the point. It goes once that happens once he, he wins, Iowa New Hampshire they won't be able to not talk about him there was this media, blackout. Jon Stewart did that piece where he made fun of them for they wouldn't win rate. It was the best Jon Stewart overhead being. Yeah. But I was like they won't be able to we have to have our moment, once that happens, and he ended up by a such a slim margin losing. And they actually gave him the the what's it called, like technically one after the fact but that didn't matter it was about winning outright. Right there. And that was just heartbreaking, when rand Paul really dropped the ball. I mean, there was after two thousand twelve the Republican party says, okay, what are we going to do after Romney loses? What do we have to do? Right. Neoconservatives is is dead. What is our next? What is our position? And it looked briefly like that was going to be a libertarian direction. They're gonna say, okay, we're gonna get more pro immigrant pro entrepreneurship pro. Against crony capitalism. Like these are the things that is going to that is going to be what the Republican party's about, then I for variety of reasons. One being Trump became super popular for being the opposite of all that they went in the completely, I didn't think there was another opposite direction libertarianism. But man, did they find one, the sort of economic populist, nationalist, very anti immigrant, and they have been wildly successful with couldn't just that? I never thought I never thought it would have an I remember when a Donald Trump. I don't know if you remember this. Donald Trump went to CPAC, I believe it was two thousand thirteen might have been two thousand twelve but it was still in this time when times were having them fast, one of those years. Yeah he's this. We started kind of being politically active, but I remember specifically CPAC, which was for a brief time taken over by libertarians on Paul every year, he would be a rockstar and give these beaches on the right. We're libertarian. They, he and he would just dominate the straw on, then rand Paul when it later, but they were like the presidential straw poll that they have there and Donald Trump came. And at one point Donald Trump said, you know, something he was giving this whole speech that just I thought was so absurd. All about China's currency manipulation and immigration, these things that I just didn't care about. I was it was absurd to me, I was like China's currency manipulation. We're in the middle of Q, E e-3. Like what the fuck? Who are we to point out there? And at one point in the speech, he goes, we need a leader, somebody who can lead this country, and he started getting heckles from the young people in the crowd going, what anyone would have chanted in two thousand thirteen Ron Paul Ron Paul twenty twelve Ron Paul and they started chanting and he goes, let me just tell you right now. Ron paul. Hey can't win. Okay. I'm sorry to tell you he can't get elected. And I remember I did a podcast about this the next day, and I was like, really Ron Paul can't get elected will guess who will never get elected. Donald Trump rob all been elected. To you. And, you know when you wrong, you got to admit your own man. I did not think this message of cracking down on immigration and China's currency manipulation. I was like this will resonate with nobody. And I think it's, it's more than that message obvious. That message does resonate with people, but people always forget, those of us who are more interested in policy that people are personality, driven date shoes. Who they like? And then they adopt the policies of the person they like, and they all knew Donald Trump. He's a reality TV star. He's been on their televisions. He was presented at people think TV is real in a way that it's actually not, and he was presented as authority on on, on business on ecconomic. And he was on there. He was in their living rooms for years, and they they knew him very well. And it happened to be the case that he's driven by anti-trade. We're China shouldn't really, really immigration skeptical. Like those are things that animate him. And so, so people because they like him they've decided to like his policies to some degree pro just to bigger degree than people credit for those are also policy ideas that predate Trump and everyone is to trade, skeptical, and immigration skeptical just general because people don't understand economics, very well, but they, he I think his, his reality TV presence is what was really the under under misunderstood or underrated factor. Yeah. I agree with you on that. And I also think there's something about human beings responding to the alpha thing that he brings to the table. Mean he was just fighting. Yeah. But it's not like. He's not he's a tough like you're right people like him for being so tough. But in a ways he so thin skinned doesn't project. That's true toughness. I don't know. Yeah, but I don't know. I mean, what he did to Jeb Bush was just alpha just going. You know, you're a bitch, what are you gonna do about that, and Jeb was like, well, I talked to my mother, and she said you shouldn't call people that it was like you're done now, man. Like you just, just like and I think that this is what a lot of people say a lot of Trump supporters will tell you. They wanted a fighter like they wanted someone to fight back. And I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that this, this group now, you're, you're a lot of in the book dealing with the, the, the millennials. And then the what do you call them the jen's e the land deal? Sales is them together. Right. Okay. So, but you're dealing with those groups, but just the, the, the social Justice left had a huge impact on the discussion during the Obama years like even predating Trump's, or the second half of Obama's administration. It really the kind of check your privilege anti straight white male thing really did take off. And I think Trump was seen very much as somebody who's just like unapologetic. I'm not playing your game. I'm not doing the Mitt Romney thing where Mitt Romney would be like, are you calling me, sexist? No, I, I had binders full of women. Please, please don't call me sexes. And he was like, you know what I'm rich. I bang models. I don't care. Let's go win. And there's something about that, that I think people people responded to I mean, that's what people tell me that, you know, when I wrote about that saying that I really think Trump was a reaction to kind of political correctness run amok. I had so many people Email me to say, Yep. That's why voted for him. And then people get then people on the left or my friends on the left get annoy your excuse. You're saying how dumb is that, that you voted for this really bad guy because you're mad at the left? I'm like, I'm not endorsing that. But clearly people did grapple the fact that people did. I'm not saying that it's justified. Well, people this is what infuriates me about the, those people on the left who can't like tr-, look, I just told you I saw the same speech and laughed at it and did a whole podcast. It's out there on record going down. We'll never get elected. But when you're wrong on that level as I was very, very wrong, you have to maybe take another look at this and go, what happened here, and it's one thing to go all these same people who are like Hillary Clinton's gonna win in a landslide so. Okay. Well, you're wrong. But instead of taking a look, you'll just go, it's because they're racist. It's there because Russia interfered, it's like don't you want to, like grow a little bit, and get better information? How did I get this so ethically wrong? Okay. Well, I didn't see something here that would be appealing to people, and it's not that they're Nazis. There's a couple hundred Nazis in the country. It's not that they all all the Nazis rose up out of the graves. Like, I don't know. There's something here that people are so partisan, that you could put an our next to a watermelon and people for it. You could put a d next to a pineapple bent, half the would vote for it, because we're so a political party is a really tribal identity. If people are very committed to now in a in a in a any that has gotten worse overtime, certainly gotten worse overtime, and I don't know how to de escalate that. I mean that's the problem for libertarian. That's a problem for anyone with independent sensibilities. They wanna slot you into one of those. I mean now it's even it's like you have to be Trump has positioned the media as the opposition team, the media referees, they're not the objective score keepers, obviously, they always had biases and some of the criticisms of the media, I share. But I mean, his criticisms of them go way overboard, but you so you have to be team meet the media has reacted to that. And they see themselves as the anti-trump team. So it so it just makes it what it also I think it really feeds into into. Trump's game because what you see when the media the media, I mean, you know, there's lots of different forms of media. But when Trump attacks, the media, and then CNN is now in the business of defending CNN. Right. It's like okay, so your priority is not really defending people or eliminating the facts of the issue to people, your priority is convincing us that CNN is doing a really good job. And, you know, that's a hard sell because they're really not doing a great and I mean, I gotta say, I cannot play his clips and mock him quite a bit. I've met him several times. He was a nice enough guy to me. But this Brian Stelter on CNN. I mean he's just like it's like he's made to be mocked. He sits there, defending CNN and then casting judgement on every conspiracy theory. Or everyone who gets fake news and all the ship and it's like with no sense of like he's supposed to be the media watchdog, and he would actually look back story that you did a great job covering. He looked back at the Covington thing and went, you know, I think the media did a pretty good job. Yeah. That was. A pollen to me. We were talking about this before show, the show, but I, I people people get things wrong. The media gets things wrong, if they correct them. That's fine. What infuriated me about the Covington story, the kids on the Lincoln Memorial who they said had behaved badly towards native American man. But then when you watch the full video footage, they really hadn't he approached them. They were getting heckled by this group of crazy black cult people. So it was just wildly mischaracterize, crystal clear. If you watch the whole thing that this was a weird situation. These kids found themselves in and they for the most part handled themselves about as good as sixteen year olds to handle all kids can can improve their behavior. That's fine. They if they'd gone back home and had a discussion about what we should have done in the future. That's fine. But they were not. They were not engaged in racial harassment of this. Absolutely. The, the media that people in the media, who just doubled down after they saw this, and we'll, I know these kids were the worst ever, and then went looking for any they're like, well, what were they doing right before this, or what were, you know, five years ago, there was someone at a basketball game who's in who's in like a racial black thing, or they were, there was even they said, the, the, the speak the bridge speaker, the student who gets to speak valid developed Torian, he was gay. So they wouldn't let him give his speech, of course, that was in a different school with the it was still in the archdiocese, but it was it wasn't even the same school. What would it matter if it was because they had no bearing on? Right. But they were looking for any reason to confirm there. They wanted to like, like rejoice in the destruction of teenagers, which are, just like really gets. I don't I don't really bothers me that we don't afford young people like an ounce of privacy, or just the expectation that they can fail due. Or or make a mistake. And then, like learn from their mistakes, and become perfectly reasonable human being, which is, which is what hap- which all kids, like, right. Have you believe in education at all, like part of the purpose of it is socializing young people? I mean you get into a fight at school. You get a reasonable punishment you have to clap racers you have. And not the you're gonna get hold to jail, and you're gonna be you're gonna have a juvenile, like assault record or you're going to be, there's going to be video of your nationally. Shamed in national media. It impugned something that makes the media mad for some reason. And I it's, it's really to me and we talked about this before we started recording, but it's like you like I am on a team. I guess, like I have very strong political views. I'm team libertarian like as much as anybody that is my, my views, you know. But if there were a group of kids who happen to be socialists, or whatever, from anyhow, I wouldn't want to ruin I wouldn't want to do this to any group of sixteen year olds, they're fucking kids. It's not I'm not a Catholic support. I'm not on their team. But I can just look at this and go, like, look, man, even if they had done what the media was claiming they did. If if the national story was a couple of sixteen year olds kinda dick to an older native American guy. This shouldn't be national news. You shouldn't be plastering. This kid's picture all over the internet, these people like Raza as lon- sang, what punishable face. Dude, you're talking about a teenager like are you out of your mind right now? This is. Despicable. I mean, and then, of course, the cherry on top is it turned out. They didn't do any of that. They weren't actually they, they handled the situation better than the black Israelites or the native Americans, did those two groups were both kind of instigating and these kids were guilty of doing school. Cheers, pretty lame. I'll give you that. But they did their little school cheer and danced around. And it's like whatever there's a fine, there's been a slew of stories of some high school wear some kids do something wrong, or that's problematic, for some reason, or they dressed up in a culturally appropriate of there was one woman who wore like an Asian sort of prom dress and she's not Asian. So you can't do that. And these are like local. These are these become news stories like people are writing this, like they're showing the picture of the person. But this is just crazy. Yeah. Can't you just cannot be allowed to because of the way social, they have their phones following them at all times. They I mean I if I if a camera had followed me my whole adolescence and everyone knew it would be wildly embarrassing for me for you, and for every other human being who has ever live. Oh, dude. Listen. Maybe I mean, I you know, the people I hung out within highschool, man, if we had been in that situation that the Covington kids were in oh my God. Would it have been so much worse for us because we would have actually given them something to, like, what they one of the things they don't show in that video. And I know you went through it to is that when the native Americans come over to him, the main guy in question is just kind of beating his drum in this kid's face very strangely. But then right, flanking him. Is this other native American who's yelling kind of racist things toward these kids? Back to. Yeah. Go back to Europe. Go back to Europe. You guys are colonizers. You guys are murders. I mean I can tell you the kids, I hung out with in high school. We were just kinda punks like we weren't like these Catholic kids. We weren't Catholics coming to a pro-life March. Okay. We weren't like squares like that. And what we would have given back to these kids. Oh my God. If there was a video of us out there at sixteen got it would have ruined me for life, literally, I would have been hated by the country for the rest of my life because we would have just and not like we even cared about the politics, it would have just been on a gut level like, oh, this guy's talking shit. Let's talk shit back to him. That would have just been response right away. I know I've talked about on the show last I don't even want to think about the things that some of my friends who are like I mean we were idiots. All right. Let's take a second and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is infinite CBD, infinite CBD offers the cleanest, healthiest and purest form of CBD available anywhere. Of course, CBD gives you all of the benefits of marijuana. Without getting you high. I recommend CBD. I've been using the freezing point topical cream for a longtime on my knees and more recently on my messed up shoulder and neck and it really helps a lot. I mean, I have some major problems with my, my disks and my neck and pain in my shoulder right now and nothing. I've used actually brings me more temporary relief, then the infant CBD freezing point topical cream so I love that, but they have a bunch of different products. The freezing point topical cream works for me. But if you go to infinite, CBD dot com, you can see which one of their products going to help you live, a healthier life. So go to infinite, CBD dot com and use the promo code POTO fifteen you'll get fifteen percent off your entire order. It's infant, CBD dot com. The promo code is P OTP fifteen all right? Let's get back into the show. So another category of things I write a lot about campus and free speech. I also write about these teens. They do what all young people, I mean they're interested into each other, and they taxed like inappropriate like naughty pictures of themselves to each other. And that's actually technically. Trafficking child pornography because of the way the statutes are written. I've covered case after case of like sixteen year old has, has child sexual exploitation charge against them for, like, texting with their with their girlfriend, who's fifteen and it's totally consensual incompletely appropriate for a high school age people like that. But because of the way the statutes written there, and the statute is different in every single state in every single municipality, some of them, you can't get in trouble for that. Some of you, can I've covered cases where like where, like the kid is being charged as an adult because they're under eighteen for like having pictures of themselves actually, who's, but you're, you're so you're a minor for the for the purposes of the sexual exploitation. But you're you can be charged as an adult because they'll do that in a couple places like shit is crazy that, that you can feel however you feel about sixteen year olds texting naked pictures, bad trouble with school. I've never. But you should not. Jail say, I am actually open to both sides of the argument on that just how you feel about it, personally, I could understand someone being like you're too young is inappropriate. The more conservative view. We don't wanna live in a society where kids are texting naked, and I could also understand the more liberal view of just kind of like Athere sixteen whatever their sexually the criminals supposed to sneak around you and dude anyway, kind of that's, that's actually probably the reasonable compromise. But the idea that you're going to jail for like some pedophilia law on the books is so bunkers that this is this is the same way that you would be treating a forty year old going after a four even then they make deals, and they get out of jail time, but they have they'll have like sex offender registry. Ask things against them. Some of these registry requirements are so a horrible you would rather go to jail, then beyond this honest, you would rather just get it done with, because the registry stuff goes, like I've seen kids again, for this kind of stuff that they're not allowed to compete. Later, they're not allowed to hang out with anyone their own age. They have to be in bed before ten like their siblings can't have friends over they can interact with, because it's treating them like their right to which is crazy. This is crazy. This is. And there's a lot of this is the stuff, I've been saying this for years, but it's kind of like a lot of this stuff with, particularly with the kind of social Justice warrior left. It's like I wouldn't even care if it wasn't always coupled with advocating for state ISM, because this is really what does shit like this, like ruins people's lives, but it always seems to be coupled with that of people's rights? You're saying, I think teenagers have rights. They don't have the exact same all the rights adults have. But but they should have like their right? Yeah. In some sense, and it's just like the war on individual atonomy, which is ending on. So speaking of which kind of related to these things, like the Covington thing, and even stories like this, one of the things that you deal with and not just in. The book. But in your in your writing reason, and stuff like that are the kind of, and you said you were just testifying to congress about is like the idea of hate crimes, guests and the idea of the hate crime hoaxes, which there seemed to be both out there in the world. I hear it parroted all the time from from people on the left that hate crimes have gone up since Donald Trump's in there. This is just a fact that Donald Trump his rhetoric has led to this, this rise in hate crimes. I've heard people like Camille foster push back on this, and really kind of breakdown how we don't actually know what the numbers are. It's very hard to get a sense of this. What's your sense of like the broader picture of hate crimes in America? I mean, my perspective, is what Camille Czyz? And that's what I testified about, you know, obviously hate crimes up in and they're bad to the extent that their crimes. I mean when when we're talking about hate crimes, we're talking about some has to be a crime link assault vandalism sexual assault, murder, something like that. And then there is an extra component where where the motivation or. That was sad had impugns on a protected category. So then it's a it's a hate crime, the data we have on that. Yeah. Like these fluctuate from year to year. Unisom pallets that don't submit data, but they don't have to submit the data. So we have more people. We had more agencies report in 2017 seventeen versus twenty sixteen. So it looked like it hit increased. But that might just be there was more reporting, there's actually, there was more hate crimes reported in one thousand ninety six today. But most of them are not getting reported. So maybe they're going up. Maybe they're going down. We don't really know we don't know how many are hoax, obviously, I, I don't think most of them are hoaxes, I, I think are rare, but they do happen. And then when we're getting to some of the more, so these are actual crimes that the campus stuff there, some, some of these things aren't actually crimes their bias. They might violate a college policy, but, you know, you say something nasty to someone. It's not illegal, but you might the college would classify it as a hateful incident, though, more those in my. Sort of more. My expertise, my studying of them in my writing about them. Good number though, seem to be hoaxes to me hair to genuine instance, or just accidents like there's a case, where, like, you know, woman found like a like a banana peel outside her door and assumed it was a racist slur against her. She's a black woman as well. No a kid just was eating a banana and didn't find a waste basket. So we just threw banana peel, a blind girl, lift dog shit in front of like a black sorority or something like that. And they, they were like, oh, someone throwing dog should at the black sorority and it turned out this girl came forward. And she was like, I'm blind. And I just couldn't find a trash. That was my favorite one was. There was a, there was a piece of wire hung like a noose near a dormitory residents of a black person. The there's no way that could be fake. Right. But the explanation was this was an immigrant student who did this who wasn't as familiar with what that means in terms of lynching in the American South late had not heard about that and head. So it hung it like that. And taking a picture of it, and text it to his friends saying, who wants to hang out. And then just left it, there, not knowing it was it was, it was would be. The activists wanted him even after that explanation still wanna best expelled. Oh, yeah. Of course, it doesn't matter. It's like it's one of these things that's just true in life in general. Is that if your determined to find something everything's gonna start looking like that? You know what I mean? Like if you're determined to find something somewhere, it's going to happen. You're going to find it, and that's not to say that it doesn't ever exist. But man, we're just so quick. I remember one that it just while we're on these ridiculous stories. I can't remember what campus this was at. But they had this, like, like student gathering to talk about racism and your experiences with racism and it's like a mostly. You know, it's all students of color. Think mostly black light kind of group of people in a circle. And this one Asian girl gets in the middle, and they were like tell us your, she's like an immigrant, like very doesn't speak, the language very well, like, and she she goes in the middle of, like tells your stories of racism of you experience, any racism, and she starts talking. And she's like I've experienced a lot of racism from black people who will make fun of my Asian accent, and they also boo. And they come and take the Bullhorn away from like, racism equals power and privilege. Just silence. The kicker right out. The activists define racism is just like its power and privilege. So they defined it in a way that no one else does everyone else, defined racism as intolerance or bias or discrimination because of race. They do not add an extra. Well, it has to be a group that has had power historically, treating a group that historically disadvantage white people have always had power. So you can't have racism gets them it cetera. But that's again, that's defining in a way, that only the activists divined. The dictionary does not define it that way. No one interprets it to be like, and the actual definition because they just keep adding a caveat. Like we'll be like only people who have power, and then it's historically people. And then it's basically it's only what, what you're trying to say I've seen this before those joking around with my wife. We were watching on MSNBC and someone was talking about who the Democrats stand for, and they were like they're like this. The Democrats stand for the African American community. The immigrant community, the LGBT community, this community that this and listen off. And I'm like, just say, not white people. I just for third time sake. Can you just say we don't stand for white people? Everybody else except that or maybe gay white people just not for straight white, and that's really what because when they'll say will racism equals power and prejudice. You're like, okay great. So Barack Obama could be a racist, then. Right. Because he was the commander in chief of the US military. So he's capable. And they'll be like, well, no no, no. Because he's the first black president. He doesn't have historical. It's like okay now. Right. So that's the only thing we can go that. Well, I mean, you know, Mosel had a lot of power in the year nine hundred. So can I get them? Are we going with this? It's just the whole thing collapses on itself. Yeah. So before we get to the Hague, so obviously, they're bad, and they do happen. And so at this subcommittee, I testified AO actually was briefly, tearing it and asked, so, but she has some interesting questions of and some, the other Democrats did they they asked. Why do some of these things get classified as terrorism when it's Muslim people doing it, but then you have, and we're talking to small number of incident. So there shouldn't be panic and people just freak out in general Patriot Act. But when when there's white people doing things that see this would fit the sort of understanding of terrorism certainly of Muslim prison was doing, but we're not calling is terrorism. That was I thought that was an interesting question. I thought worth exploring I totally willing to believe there's some double standard at play there in how the government. Characterizes these things, but it's just funny because they all several of them asked that same question, because they needed a video clip of them saying it for their because the committee hearings are really just for four. Yeah. But it but it was an interesting hearing, and there wasn't as much disagree the other people in the panel. So they were there on the hate crimes are bad by their increasing. We have to take them very seriously. And I was the one saying, well they're bad. But I don't know that we're increasing. And this is a civil liberties subcommittee. There are some trade-offs when were, you know, some of this is each are we want the FBI to monitor more people, right? There are issue and they agree, they recognize that, and even the Republicans and Democrats on the committee hearing seem to understand that time it was I'm not necessarily against expanding. What we conceive of as terrorism beyond just like Islamic extremism. I mean I looked to be honest. I think what antifa does really rubs right up against terrorism. I mean. It is violence and threat of violence on a pretty regular basis with a very clear political motive to it. I mean I don't know. How are we defining terrorism? Go the other way, I'm, I'm define less things as terrorism just because it's gets us all riled up and. Eight and pass all sorts of civil liberties Bando. Well, listen, I'm not for anymore. But if you're saying, someone like is Dylann roof or someone like that, and I don't know enough about that specific case like, I think, what it really hinges on is if there's a political motive right? They're saying they're only ascribing it like a political motivation. When it's I think that's a good example. That's terrorism. I get in the same sense that, like the pulse suiting is terrorism shore. Right. I mean, I guess like to me, it really doesn't matter. It doesn't really you're the crime, if you call it terrorism than we we're gonna we're gonna, that's a fair so much stuff. That's a fair point. But isn't that really the essence with the whole hate crime thing, too is that crime should be crimes? And whether you have hate in your heart or it comes from one racial group, because again, I just gotta say it seems to me much like the racism is power plus. But it's really just from white people because it's not that's the area does it. I mean, I've seen if you want to say hate crimes out there. Just see the videos nowadays, so many videos of people wearing maga- hats being attacked assaulted their hats taken. This is all over the place. I mean, you, you know, for fact men, if you were to walk down the streets of New York City, in a maga- hat that you'd be looking over your shoulder all day long for someone to do something to you. Is that a hate crime? Is that not if a black guy beat up a white guy, I've been mode by I grew up in Brooklyn? I've been mugged by black guys before. And they've said like white boy while they were mugging does this hate crime. Really? I just think I got mugged, but there was a racial thing that was son. I have I have a problem with the hate crime law for slightly different reason. I think it allows for double jeopardy too easily because there's a federal hate crime law. So two, we can charge twice. Yeah. For committing crimes. And if we don't get you the first time we can charge federally. Well, that's, that's definitely a very. Yeah. And then we're policing policing motivations of people who committed crimes. Now, obviously, you can take into account motivations when you're sentencing judges, and juries are allowed to do that. They're allowed to say this person's motivations are more sympathetic, or they're more. Sorry or there, some aspect of it, that, that it should be punished less severely than this person. Who, who did it for this reason? That's even worse. So I'm fine. I'm actually fine with that. But it shouldn't be legislated up front saying. No, you have to do it this way for this reason. And that starts to be policing policing viewpoints to me. So you I completely agree with that. So you write a bit about antifa in the book, which heart. It's hard to talk about the college leftists of today without addressing them. I was just going through a thing with, with the New York chapter on, on Twitter, because we had on legion of skanks com. Podcast that I do we had Milo Yannopoulos on which evidently is not allowed. You're not allowed to have that guy on your pockets. It's not a political show at all we just literally made stupid jokes, the whole time, but they were very upset about that the venue. We were going to have it on. You know, got a bunch of threats and ultimately was a was a what's the word only vandalized, they, they spray painted, Nazis, go home and a site. You know, I've talked about this before in the show, but you feel how you feel about Milo is certainly not in agreement with all of his politics, very negatively about him. That's and that's fine. But I also feel very negatively about them from a different perspective. I don't really care that he says offensive things I just hate that he was like Rudy Giuliani supporter, return worst. Well. There. You know, he, he was he was after he organized events that he claimed were happening that we're never happening. Really didn't know that. Yeah. Well, he's, you know, like some of the Berkeley stuff said he's having a whole free speech week thing, and he's all got all these people lined up. And none of these people were in real. Yeah. So there's, there's a, a huge level dishonest not him. I'm in addition views, which, which I think, were even some of those emails that came out that were much more of instinct of, like white nationalism that really I thought it was drilling or again, it was the stunt for I'm against political correctness. I'm gonna say these horrible things. But you don't do that internally in your emails. What did he say in his emails? I don't even know he had like, there was a whole. I don't wanna mischaracterize it because maybe he'll listen to this and get mad at me. But go read the BuzzFeed story about his emails, and I thought it starts with go, read the BuzzFeed story. There was some about the Breitbart, his editors were his editors at Breitbart, are restraining, some of the like anti semitic stuff in, in his writing interest that I it was really. Revealing to me. So I don't think very highly, but obviously, he has the right to speak if people wanna bring him to speak, they should be able to do so antifa. Activists cetera made that impossible time and time like they're all they're all anti police. They hate the police, but the police, there have to be hundreds of police there, because threat of violence that they represent who guys, they're imposing all these acuity costs on the universities. And there's like I mean. Serious assaults committed by the guys. I mean this, this stuff the black block guys with that's what they were called. I write the, the black block and tika whatever hit people with bike locks assaulted women. I mean, again, it's like you see these videos refers to their tactic, right there of dressing in black. So you can't tell who they are. So so they can't be identified later antifa, Gozo goes back all the way to the nineteen thirties. There's a history of antifa in Europe. Resisting? Actual fascism. But there's always been, I think some reason to doubt that their tactics are successful from the standpoint of opposing fashion the fascism. There are some examples of, of their demonstrations just drawing more attention to the fascist because in many cases and this is true today. Right. These really awful people that they hate so much that they don't want to be able to speak people like Richard Spencer, for instance, don't have huge followings. There are not a lot of your drawing more attention to something. Then if you just completely ignored it, and he gives you have some actual Nazi, or white nationals person, giving giving talk to like an audience with three people was there's what there's nothing to come of it. But if you're trying to shut it down. You're you're I mean, you can protest it obviously, you have the right to do that. But if you're trying to get a cancel your having violence, this plays into the victimhood narrative of these people anyway, and you've actually drawing more attention. It's a very dangerous game. That's being played with the guys on the alt-right because there's basically, as you said, there's groups of people who don't have a huge following a lot of these people who really don't have like a very big following at all. And I think Lilo had a big file Milo because people following, but yeah, a bit more attention. But I'm talking about some of the more random, and more hard core white nationalist. Alright figures that don't have a big following. But there are very useful adversary to a lot of people on the left. So they can say see this is what we're up against right. Like it's not. You don't just have to say, oh, this guy's dog whistling racism, you can be like no. This guy's look what he's saying. He wants a white Ethnos state or whatever. So they kind of prop him up to make him. Yeah. The enemy but the dangerous game and that is that you're actually propping somebody up, who think is so dangerous and it's just this. But look, nothing makes me more sympathetic to the alt-right, then literally just getting lost on a YouTube journey of watching antiga and fucking social woke social Justice warriors. The most sympathetic ever. The alt-right is after like five or six woke social Justice warrior videos in a row. And you like someone needs to crack their heads. But then you take a deep breath. You go outside everyone's kind of getting along. You know, it's like you can watch YouTube for a half hour and be like we're on the verge of a race war. I mean, this, this whole country's falling apart. We're about to have a race war. But then, like I leave and go get a Cup of coffee and it's like everybody seems fine like. Lavelle different races. We're all kind of gaming because we're talking a lot right now about the effect YouTube specifically has on people's radicalization. There was big New York Times piece. This did not content right contending that. Yeah, I thought it was very alarmist continue that you watch you watch Milton Friedman video, and then the next thing, you're, you know, you're attending a Klan rally because you watched all these videos and the algorithm is suggesting new videos, and it just sort of denied that people have any choice in the matter whatsoever. Or like you're just brainwashed by processing new information. Automatically really, it's I thought it was very unfair tech panic. And it's also like look man. You can't. The fact that Milton Friedman's picture was in there was by the way, just in Saint. It just didn't even make any sense at all Milton Friedman, who really was like a classical liberal. If, if you wanted to break down his actual views. I mean that was insane that his picture made the montage. But even the way they treated people like Stephan mall in you in that video. It's like, look man. You gotta be able to grapple with people's arguments to just go always, so horrible. The brainwashing people, this guy was completely helpless. And then he saw these videos, and now all of a sudden he's a bad person. Look. It's the same thing in you write about the stuff that happened with Charles Murray in your book. It's like okay if you think this guy's wrong, then fine show me how he's rowing. He's presenting a scientific argument if he's wrong about it. I'm all ears. What did he get wrong? But the when you just say so much of this is that the opposition to it is just you're evil. You're evil for bringing this up. It's like well he's making a scientific argument. It's like okay if you don't like this is the big. Thing Steph ammonia, does that pisses. All these people off as he talks about racing. I q a lot. It's like, okay, you can have a problem with that. But your problem with can't be. You're not allowed to say that. I agree. But isn't Melanie? I don't know him that well, but have all sorts of very weird views on, like families and stuff. He always strikes me as kind of a sort of, in, he's in that self help sort of, I hate to use the word again. But Griff whereas like no I like giving you the meaning that's Jordan Peterson. Actually, does that a little bit to this part of him, I'm Jordan Jefferson wrote a self help. I know like I, maybe this is just this is just me or there's libertarian about. I reject a lot of these. It's like a secular, Joel Osteen type. Like, like, oh, I'm gonna just by next book and listen to subscribe to my and I'm gonna tell you how to reorder your life, so you'll be fine. Sell. It seems like it's selling snake oil to me, a little, I get what you're saying. I've gotten that feeling before, too. But truthfully speaking, it's like. That, that in itself doesn't mean you're brainwashing. Anybody really, you know, you can't and that's the thing the article that really drove me crazy. The most is that they treat this kid. But by the way, it's not it's a completely, like to just take an example of one person their experience with you, too. And they go through it. He's like he was watching something like twenty hours a day of YouTube videos. It's like maybe there was some issues with this kid begin with that literally living on some exercise, your kids, really. But, but then it's like they treat him with no agency at all. It's actually really if you read the article, it's unbelievable. They're like he was drawn into this world. The kid has no responsibility himself, and it's like, okay, drift in, and then they'll drift out. So that was the, the resolution to the story he started watching left-wing videos, and he totally changed his views. Yes. So, so it was not that this is the classic the answer to bad speech is more speech. There was a great article in the Washington Tony in, like two weeks ago. Oh or three maybe more probably month ago. Now, a similar kind of premise this, this was a younger kid. I think it was fourteen or fifteen went through some horrible school experience where like a joke told was was construed as sexual misconduct and his principal. Like said you're going to jail for like, they, they this poor kid fourteen poor him. He wasn't. I don't think it was poor horrible. Experience has to change schools. You know, he's just he's feels so mistreated, he starts finding a community of anti-feminist online. He's gradually becoming people who also went through this. He becomes much more interested in all right? Ideas, he becomes, like very all right? Like anti-jewish stuff. His parents are horrified. They're like, what has happened to our boy. What are we supposed to do? And then he wanted to go to one of the alright, rallies in DC lived, in DC, in DC, when they came to town and his parents said, but we're like pro free speech people. So we said, okay, let's go we're going to go. And then he met, these people in person and was so repulsed by them that he rejected the alright. Entirely so you can you can cycle through these things, and then cycle out of them like it's not. It's just the way we talk about some of these policies now is that like they're like, you get stuck to it, and we have to stop like the, it's like a contaminant or something right? Let anyone be exposed to it. And to stop people from being exposed to it. We have to violate certain very important liberal principles like free speech with which I agree on need to. And it's bad, too. I completely agree with you. And then I also think that all of this, the perspective where you're like somebody was brainwashed is also like it really depends on where you are AD logically for you to determine what the brainwashing was. I mean, look me personally, I was like a left wing guy, and then I became a libertarian. So you could say I was brainwashed by Ron Paul or by Murray Rothbart or some of these other guys. But really from my perspective, if I look at it, I was of rain washed by mainstream. Mm-hmm. Media and public school in, like things like that, that was really more like my brainwashing and private cloud went to both. But it's a it's not it's not just so clear and the truth is that so many people, you know, it's like how many people bring by the New York Times, how many people were brainwashed by the New York Times think that Saddam Hussein was sitting on a stockpile of weapons of mass destruction like an actual policy? So I don't know Stephan melon. You get into some stuff about family, and, like, what's an abusive relationship, and what's not I've never gotten tremendous value out of that part of what he does fair enough, but like he was against every one of these wars. So when the New York Times that they are, and they go like, oh he's brainwashing. People on his YouTube channel. I just have different priorities in what I think is actually a really horrible like what's the result of all of this? And even like you said, in your example, most of the time, if they are being brainwashed by these anti PC, YouTube, personalities, a lot of it's because the authoritarian are so odd. Obvious and right in front of them in there like this bullshit. So they're kind of looking for anybody who's speaking out against it reason why. So you all, that's a problem, though. Because then I think some of these people who are speaking out against them are not actually. They're just offering a thorough, Teheran ISM of a different kinds. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. No. Some of them are I agree. I'm just making the point certainly some of them are. I'm just making the point that it's almost like your giving them this opening in the same way you were saying about Lilo or the some of these other. All right guys, you're giving them this opening to influence people because it's like they look around at like the you know. I don't know the craziness all around them. And they're like, yeah. Well, I want see someone who's standing up against that. Well, I, I wanna be able to say, I may think a lot of these speakers are full of shit, and totally disagree with them. They're terrible. But they get to speak because I defend principle, the principle of it matters. More to me, there's no every power, you would give people to violate some liberal, norm can be used a cannon will against you. And it's, it's good to listen to people even ones you there's, there's value. And look, I'll say it was probably interesting to the Berkeley kids to hear from Nazi. It was interesting. One of my formative experience. He's make some good points by the way every now and then. To say no. But it is true. Like I've listened to folk Nazis and been like at, you know what that is a fair point to, like just being like, hey, do you know what the communist did to the German people when they were coming? Hey, that's a fair point. You know what a lot now. My family was slaughtered by Nazis, not France fan of the Nazis. I did all the terrible things that people say they did. However, what the US military and the Soviet military did to some of the German people also really terrible. And a lot of those people were hostages to the Nazis. They weren't all fucking. You know what I mean? Like not everybody wanted the Nazis to take over Germany. Some of them just shut up because they were scared to death to get thrown in a camp themselves. I'm just saying you can even from somebody who's completely wrong and completely toxic. You could get something out of it that go, okay? I kind of see what he's saying his perspective there, I get his point. Yeah, I think there's a point people, I get something out of listening to commies out of Nazis. I've read a lot of people is that you can be more sure that they're wrong that can be more confirmed, and more able to combat these things. But most ideologies, even the really really bad ones. They don't spread to people because they say ten things in a row that are just demonstrably factually wrong with no truth tomb at all. It's usually because they'll say a couple things that kind of have some points and then they take it to a really bad election. Then exactly that. So Steve, you have to grapple with the good point even singer talks about this a little bit. And I totally agree with him. So there are certain things that are actually not controversial that are treated like they're super controversial like that. There are some innate differences between men and women based on, now that doesn't mean that women shouldn't be able to do everything man should be able to do that doesn't prescribe you any policy, but it is true in the aggregate that there has there some biological. Basis for some of the different wanted to do different tasks again that's that's a week claim. But it is true, it doesn't prescribe us, anything, say women should live, second class citizens or not be able to do everything mention do, but it's just true that there are some of those differences. But that is a statement that, that got the president of Harvard, fired the Larry Summers ago, and you're like this crazy. This is crazy. And the truth is say the western society are norms are better than others, the site right now in human history would always be true thousand years ago, the Muslims were doing very well for themselves Europe, but that there's a historical basis in this against slight claim. That would be very controversial on campus. You can get deployed form for saying it. So then when people hear this from your kind of anti-peace PC light issue to personality. And they come to also this statement has been has been censored, by these by these leftist by these campus in which there's very good evidence. They're not. Immune to the more extreme now and then the people advocating the more extreme version of it when they get shut down. They'll say see this is the same thing. They're coming for the for the brave tellers. Exactly. You get your you, you have no immunity, this exactly helping a phrase that you have no immunity to the much more extreme and, and bad and wrong completely the argument. I completely agree with that. And that's why 'cause right? Because you let them stab which will they were willing to tell me the trend on this that everyone else was scheduled. So maybe they're right about the B C and D also. Right. And so, yes, you give them a lot of credibility and the truth. I mean the way I see it is that it's almost cartoonish on both sides. If you look at the kind of like the PC the social Justice left and the alt-right, where on the left, like biology cannot be discussed. We have to pretend it doesn't exist. Everything is a social construct, every gender race all of these things. There's no I mean, like it's like the idea that like. Biology even plays a role has to be discussed. And then on the alt-right biology has just destiny. It's like demographics are destiny. And I think both of those are kind of silly. I think there's the obvious truth to me is that both nature and nurture play a role in where we are. I don't really focus a tremendous amount on biology because you can't really do much about it anyway. So it's better to focus on what the policies are that you could actually change. But yet between men and women, of course like obvious biological. It's interesting though, on the left the intersection there is a little bit of a controversy. A tension I think between a, a like these norms do not exist and should be totally erased. And also, they are clad differences that are the most like fundamental thing about your identity that are really I'm actually I'm more in the former camp like I'm not really I'm a social liberal. I don't really care about upholding traditional generally warms at all. I like gender fluid people. That's you can you can be you can be interested in stereotypically female things. If you're a male advice, I I don't that's totally fine. You're an individual what you like is up to you. You're, you're just you. So the attributes that make up you can be any attributes but that is actually a little bit not sort of what part of the left is about. Because it's more like no, you, you can choose whether you're man or woman, but you have a brain that is sort of wired to this. So if you're on the same both which. Things are feminine type things, but your man it must mean that you're actually a woman, which you can actually be a woman, but you can't be just do you know what I'm saying? Go say weird in APO vacs sentences. They'll say gender is a social construct, also I knew from the age, I was four that I was the other gender. And he'll put this is just a social construct then. Yeah, this doesn't make any sense. You can't have the brain of someone else. Then it's a by everyone. It's just I don't care what I rejecting. And this is what I reject to in the whole, you know, look, I like topics gay marriage or something like that. I'd imagine me and you would both agree that the station really be involved in marriage. And it's really a freedom of speech and freedom of association issue, you can call yourself, whatever you want associate with whoever you want you have the right to your life. Liberty property all that stuff. If you have those doctors gonna perform surgery for you that you want to perform on a transition gender. I don't care object to about the LGBT. Movement is the totalitarian impulses behind it where it's not just they're not asserting that I have the freedom to transition genders if I want to what they're saying that. And if you miss gender me, your now a big like you have to also accept the reality, that I live in which is that woman now. Now, if I I've met, lots of transgender people in my life, I call them their preferred pronouns just because it's like, I'm not a dick and it just seems like the right thing to do to me. But I'm very because I don't care about these categories. You're eroding, buddy is making what is a biological claim as many on the right will make, which is that look you have a y chromosome, biologically speaking, you can't really change that. And somebody's saying that hate speech, or they should be fired their terrible person. It's like, well, now my libertarian impulses are kicking into actually kind of protect that guys. Right to say what he believes. Well, I mean, if, if, if they're gonna lose their professorship over it, or they're the law to hate crime statute is written in some way where they're gonna get trouble for it, then I'm gonna come to their defense. I do we do have to be a little bit careful. You've used hotel -tarian several times to push back a little bit. Just people being mad at you for for, for the way you disagree with them. Like you get to do that. The reality can be ugly. It's not to tell Teheran ISM okay? There is a there is a actual sort of force element, the reason why I refer to it as a totalitarian world view is that it is. It's arguing that we should control. How you think about a certain subject. It's, it's a totalitarian impulse. I'm not saying it is a totalitarian system. I don't think it's always tell -tarian, or even usually Taliban to one Blake. They don't. And they're trying to say you, you're bad if you don't maybe, so maybe they're making a sort of lazy and not well-formulated enough attempt to persuade. I don't think they're not in control of militant government. So they may not able to implement true talibanism, but, I don't think at least what I've seen for the most part isn't attempt to try to persuade you. It's an attempt to. Rather than. Yeah. I mean it's well it's an attempt to demonize hurt affect your life. Do whatever they have the power to do to ruin you. If you commit the sin of miss 'gendering somebody to me that is a little bit more than scolding. I get what you're saying that there is an important distinction. I mean, if somebody doesn't have any power over you, but they're not actually going to be able to hurt you, but I don't know. I think like you know, I think you have you have every right to perform whatever surgery, take whatever hormones you want. I don't agree with giving them to children. But I think adults have whatever they want. I think it helps a lot of my, my, my understanding the research it does help people, a small number people wanna regret it in to transition bag. But most of the people are better off having done it, and again, whatever. Consenting built. Fine. Anyway. Yeah. Look, I stick by that second point. Whatever consenting adults wanna do. I don't know. I've seen some research that indicates kind of not that a lot of people want regret it that. Seem to be a small number of people who want to reverse it. They're just does seem to be a very, high suicide rate, both pre and post. Transition surgery and it doesn't seem like the surgery does too much to alter that. And I don't know. I don't know exactly why we're so we're embracing this again. We're bracing the gender fluidity, which I think is fine. But so you have more people willing to identify the other gender, but who actually are not. They don't actually want to transition. And then they, you know, later in life, they've just turned out. They were the game or something actually want to be a woman. So there is some research suggests that the likely outcome for many of these people is that they don't transition, because they're just experimenting with gender fluidity and then they are perfectly happy for having not. And I know I think we all know people who fall into like either. I mean, I know people like I knew one was a woman is now a man, who was like friends with my sister in high school. She was like very masculine her entire life. Right. She ended up transitioning. You just know where like she. Yeah. It just makes sense that she did that you can also just masculine woman. Sure, you can be that, but she also did it of time before it was as kind of socially acceptable, and then you'll see like these, like girls in, in college like some college freshmen who, like. Is like a straight woman then like cuts her hair short and still dates. Men is still straight woman because dentist Z transgender now and you like you're not. You're just riding a trend like you're not really in the same place. That, that other person I knew was a lot of this is my book, isn't it funny? How we demonized Rachel Dulles, all the woman who, who was a white woman, but who identified as I don't this might be my like my most controversial or something was going to get me in trouble. But I don't understand why that is quite so, like, unthinkable that because reece's more made up much more made up than gender and sex, because that that's based in get chromosomal. There's like there's more genetic difference the stupid like there's race. Zouk is grounded in biology as well. I don't really think so. So you don't think I mean, from my understanding the argument, not the way not the way gender is. No. I agree with you. It's very different. But the if you look at someone like Barack Obama, the idea that we that people talk speak of him as black is a little bit arbitrary. It's like, well, he's half white, and he was raised by white people in Kansas, like his mother raised him as father wasn't really present is eight. So that's kind of arbitrary. But the idea that when we were separated into continents, that people living in Africa were black people living in Europe. Way. America, where made of America. Okay. But there's right then that's just a quirk of, like where you were when the continents broke because we evolved in different ways, I'm not drawing any, like terrible prescription to begin with men and women were. Yes. Name more fundamental. It is a more genetic pronounced difference. And there's now today when you're talking about, like black people like who will what is, what is lumping them together. Other than like social trends having to. About men and women is there are there. Yes, there are they should all be able to do the same things and social liberal differences are, are more stark. And we're saying these are categories that, that are absolutely you can move between them in a way that you, it's on thankful for race. That is that I a little slightly backward to me. No, I completely agree with you. And of course, I would also agree with you. That I'm not trying to draw any laws from any of these realizations, but I think people have to be able to talk about. Reality adults are going to give us a better understanding of the world. If you do go, like, yes, there are women who enjoy doing things that have been traditionally, considered masculine and vice versa. But there's also a reason why some things traditionally considered masculine right and vice versa. There's just reality to that. I mean, I know I've watched like like even just watching little kids to three year olds. You notice in general, there's kind of a difference between the way boys play in. The way girls play. It's like boys are fucking savages are right. And some of that is social construction, but not all of it. Not all definitely not. Yes. But and there's a healthy and this is why we have to be able to have difficult uncomfortable conversations because in the in the community of people who researches issued right? There's a room there's room for some disagreement. How much of it is social construction. How much of it is biology. It's it's somewhere in the middle. We don't quite we don't know. Exactly. And we need and it's, it's should be okay to talk about those things, and those things really have become hard to talk about this. I mean, I think like Charles Murray has to be allowed to his book. And if a college invites him, he should be allowed to speak. And by the way, if you've got some evidence refuting, what he's said, I'm all ears. Let's, let's listen to it. I read some of it some very persuasive. I'm like, I'm not in lockstep agreement with them at all. And when, when I when I went to Michigan to watch his talk for the five minutes, they were allowed to him saying something, and then some. One in the audience, like having a conversation with him about the version, the audience sounded pretty smart and offer some good counterpoint s-. That was five minutes. The rest of it was just shutting the lights scream at you want us dead literal, literally, you want us dead. It was it was just an embarrassing scene. All too often that's happening. Yeah. No, I agree. So the in the toward the end of your book you talk a little bit about the alt-right. So what do you, do you think like do you see them as we're kind of early discussing as a reaction to this, this kind of social Justice crowd, or like, what's your take on them? Yeah. So I think again, now we're talking about very small numbers of people that, you know, they, I think this group had its high watermark, as Charlotte, Charlottesville March, and they've receded, since and good riddance. I think many of them, maybe came to their racism because of family or, or sort of an older kind of KKK, sort of thing, I think, some of them are just kind of desperate, lonely, people would get wrapped up in and you see that with some of these are all right. People came from Occupy, Wall street, there was one guy who wanted to join ISIS, like it's just crazy people who get into colts. I think there then I think there's a third group of people who came to it from a sort of they were radicalized through an anti-peace lens. They were so fed up with the left's overreach on social media on things like tumbler on campus. When speakers were shut down. I've spoken to people who said they came to the alright for these reasons. Again, that's that's on them. If these things, turn you into Nazi. That's, that's your fault. No one else's. But it does it speaks to my point about I want the left to think more carefully about some of these tactics. Some of the call out culture, the cancelling everyone. And if this is doing more harm than good spec. It is in some cases, and I think part, not the entire story. But part of the story of the alright is exactly that it's, it's one of the things and I agree with much of that. But one of the things that, you know, it's hard to notice. Right. Is that there were a lot of people people like yourself and just a lot of common sense, people who would say things like, well, this is what got Donald Trump elected about certain excesses on the left, or this is what leads to the alt-right or helps fuel them about certain Xs on the left, and it seems like the left's response to that was, like, okay, well, we're going to double down on what we were doing. And then it almost leaves in a position where like well. I kind of hope I'm wrong about that. It reminds me almost of the monetary policy pursued after the two thousand eight crash. We'd have these libertarians who were like, well, you know, these artificially, low rates of light created this bubble and they're like, okay, well, we're gonna forum zero for the next decade, and you're like, well, I hope we were wrong about that. Because if we were right you're going to be looking at a really big bubble now and a couple of studies that confirm some of about the, the political, correctness specifically leading voting for, I think it was thinking that political correctness is bad was like the most highly correlated position with voting for Trump other than being a Republican things that, that does make sense, because he himself as the most anti-peace candidate, right? I mean everybody ashes PC, but he, he said a bunch of is we can't afford. It's killing us. We can't afford to be so more. He said that a number of times, and it's not just him saying that it's just Donald Trump by his very existence is fighting, it's just the nature of who he is. Donald Trump is like America's. Did it just falls out of him like walking peppers? Yes, good things. Bad thing, incoherent things. They all just fall out of his mouth. He's incapable of, like keeping something to himself. It all just comes out. I mean when Marco Rubio made that crack of that Donald Trump's got small hands, and, you know what they say about people small hands and then the next debate he's like he's like to say he said, I had small hands. Have you seen these ends, and then it kind of gets an a plus and you almost see the moment Trump is trying to like, not. And he goes, and then he said, if he has small hands, you know what that means? Well, let me just assure you, there's like he cannot help himself. He can't not do it like he has it just falls out of him. So by his very nature, she is the political correctness is having to watch your mouth all the time. And having to think about everything you say before you say it, because it could be offensive, Donald Trump by his very nature is like. Is the opposite of that. And I think a lot of people the Joe Rogan said, one time, I thought this was a really brilliant observation. I mean he was talking about Occupy Wall street. And this goes kind of what you were saying when you're like people aren't like us. They don't get obsessed with the policies and the philosophy behind each law, or, you know, he said that he thought of Occupy Wall street, this is Rogan's, quote, as a white blood cells, and he was like white blood cells. They don't necessarily understand virus. They don't know what the cure is for. You know, they don't have some nuance understanding of what's going on. But they know that there's corruption and they rush. Right. They know this is wrong, and they rush. And the occupy kids, if you actually ask them, what they are views were a lot of them would have these kinda goofy. You know, we, we should abolish currency, and we should like these kind of crazy things. But they knew that this whole banking system was corrupt. They're like these guys just wrecked. The economy and got bailed out for it and they're still flying home on their private jet. That's bullshit. And they're kind of right in their core instinct there. Right. Well, that's like that was like talking to Ron Paul people in the height of Ron Paul. Right. A lot of like, yes. This is terrible. What we've done to the Middle East. This is insane. This is evil. And then you would have people with kooky beliefs, or believe sure that we're like very kooky. Yeah. No, that's true with all these movements. But I actually think from that perspective, I judge Occupy Wall street, the tea party black lives matter, a lot of these different groups you go, you know what? There are weird beliefs with an all of these, but the core thing that drove you there. You're kind of run about this is actually wrong if the tea party was going government's out of control in debt and spending and tax out of control and Occupy Wall street is going. These financial companies are out of control black lives, matter like these cops are out of control. Right. You're old. I mean, I'm very sympathetic to at least the stated goals of the mainstream members of black lives matter. Yes. I completely want to reform our criminal. System my criticism of their group. It in my book a little bit. I don't know that this is this is certainly right? But my concern is that by making the issues of criminal Justice and police misconduct explicitly racial, even though is true, right that it has a disparate impact on, on the apps. I absolutely agree. But by making it an explicitly identity race thing I'm worried if that, that might that turns people off. Maybe it doesn't I still we're still the chapter. The story is not been told whether it's been good or bad, but I have to I mean Trump ran on this, like like like horrible law and order platform, partly in a reaction to the anti-cop rhetoric of black lives matter, now, Trump is not he's actually done some criminal Justice things that are kind of promising because he's like friends with. Kim Kardashian more criminal Justice reform. Then like anyone Kim Kardashian saved a woman's life. She did. So she's making. She wants to become a lawyer be we're making fun of her. I'm like shut up. She's a lawyer. She wants I love the malice tweeted something out about that one point where he was. Yeah. Laughter, all you want to. She's unless you've saved a human being. She is a better person than so feel however you want to feel about this whole thing like that's the reality of the situation. Yeah, it is interesting. Using your power. But it's but it's kinda like with the Trump thing it's almost. I mean, for whatever reason maybe it is just because he's friends with Kim, and Konya whatever. But it in the same way they only Nixon could go to China. He was kind of like this guy who ran on the law and order campaign was look, my buddy, Scott Horton, who's totally brilliant editor, antiwar dot com, and he's like a bleeding heart libertarian completely against and also completely believes in the idea that like. Policing has been racist from the very beginning in the country, but he always said he was like black lives matter should have been laser focused on policy issues like they should have been laser focused. He goes, don't even call it black lives matter legalize pot. Yeah, you know, how much more that'll actually do if you actually got that done that cuts out like seventy percent of the police abuses that are under this smelled pot. And that's why I felt inject this guy's like he's like if you make it about the policy. And you don't just invoke the race thing, you'll just get a lot further for what your goal is. But so I tend to agree with him on that. I do think there's something about, I will say that I always, I found the alt-right kind of interesting, and it was just another thing almost like the Trump thing. I just never thought it would happen. I would never imagine that the idea of that quasi fascist and outright, fascist ideas would be popular like not that they're like, wildly popular, but it's just something like, I did feel like libertarians lost a sir. The amount of space to them, like, I remember back in twenty twelve in twenty thirteen you'd go on a YouTube video, and you look at the com any video on politics, look at the comments underneath, it libertarians owned the comments, it was all like Ron Paul twin twelve and the fed, like, end the wars and all of a sudden around two thousand sixteen. It was like they were all like Pepe the frog and lock her up and build the wall, and all this stuff, and I was like, man, I wish we hadn't lost that energy to these guys. I wish we had, it was curious, I felt like I'd wanna like grapple with this to see if we could like get this back in our favor in some way, there were people, I think, cycling through extreme contrarian ISM. And from, like two thousand six to two thousand thirteen libertarianism was the extreme contrarian is 'cause we were against the wars, and they psych they cycled through. And then they moved on to the to the to the more contrarian thing, which. Is like, oh well races. Real race matters. We should have Ethnos state, you know, well, all privatized everything, we'd all be to tell Tehran's and also, we never actually believed in free markets. And you know it's just some yeah, fortunate it's, it's sucks. It's terrible. But I mean, this is the story, you know, Europe has already gone through where where the politics have moved into a harder, socialist left and identity, Terry Thornberry nationalist populist. Right. And I mean, the in that the recent sort of Brexit parliament, a European Brian mentally elections, right? The big losers were like sent neoliberal. Centrists, or like moderate, right parties? I think so their little head of us. I see both the extremes are crystallized and the true extremes are still fringes, right. The alright is such a friend, even the even the sort of radical progressive antifa type. Also a fringe. But they have the sort of median political place on both the right and left has moved in a in an anti libertarian direction Matic. And I think a big part of the problem. There's the chef is that really we belong as the compromise in the middle like, in the in the just world. That's where libertarianism basically is basically. But it is like we're radicals in today's day and age, but actually libertarianism is almost like a compromise. It's like listen. You have one way of thinking about how people should live their lives. You have a different way of thinking about it. Here's the agreement you both get to do what you wanna do. You don't initiate violence on the other one. We kind of squash it this way. But in today's world, the middle is actually in many ways, the most extremist crazy radicals because for his crazy as these PC leftists are as crazy as the alt-right are then the way American politics is stacked up. It's like let's just meet right in the middle where there's Hillary Clinton Lindsey Graham. Like just the reasonable people who think we should completely remake the Middle East spent four trillion dollars a year. And you like actually that might be more betcha crazy than any of this. It's debatable and Joe Biden is a moderate, but not at all in the sense that I'm a moderate, right? Right exa-, almost opposite way. I want the Robby suave. And control. But we can only dream. Well, all right. Listen, we are up against the time here, but I highly recommend you guys. Go check out the book. I really, really enjoyed reading ankle Hanoch attack. It might give you a little bit of a panic, but it's still worth panic attack young radicals in the age of Trump by Robby suave. Where's it up? You get an Amazon Amazon wherever books are sold wherever books are sold. If you find a place where books are sold, and it's not there. Don't you can tell Robbie he will take them to court? We'll settle this through the state. And of course you still. Right, for reason magazine and stuff like that. Your Twitter handle just my name at Robbi soi. I wish I had original name. I could just have my Twitter. I actually sometimes I'm just awake at night like mandate Smith has it rough. Yeah. I've really do. I know that's why I have to say, really radical things you know, to make up by the way, I did notice at one point there when I said, even any Nazis, make some good points and I was like someone's going to clip that. And it's not gonna come out good. Out of context. This is if this is the podcast that does me and I'm coming for you. Dave smith. All right. To kill eight hundred other people I track down. Oh man. New York City. You're going to give up by the six hundred. I don't know. I've killed a lot of innocent people. Gotta move on with my life. I once again. Congrats on the book. Thanks so much for coming in really. Enjoyed the conversation. I that's it for today. We'll back on Friday with the brand new episode piece.
Inside the engine room of power
"This is an ABC podcast. There are some people in this world who are by nature and temperament idealists tests. And I genuinely want to put their talents to making the world a better place to do that. They situations of total moral clarity. We're truly wicked. People are doing terrible things to messes of helpless people. And this is the story of Samantha Power Samantha was born the island but she migrated to the United States when she was a kid and she made a self into a war correspondent and then she wrote a book that attracted the attention of an up and coming coming young politician named Barack Obama and so when Barack Obama became president he brought some at the POW into his administration as a national security advisor Iza on human rights and then in two thousand thirteen. He gave her her dream job. US Ambassador to the United Nations. So the question he is. And this is the question Samantha. Power has been asking herself. How does a passionate idealist get along? When she enters the dirty engine room of Governments Samantha has written an engrossing memoir about her life and two years inside the White House and the United Nations? And it's called the education of an idealist Samantha Samantha. Power Ambassador Power. I should say welcome to you so good to be here. Your story starts in Almond. You've got a mom who's really clever. And and quite driven and ambitious in a dead whose brilliance but a drinker. And you describe how you spend a lot of your childhood in the basement of Hodgkin's Bah in Dublin. What would you do down there? When you're playing there for hour after hour? Well let me just say that from the vantage point of my child self. I thought it was dreamy. I didn't didn't notice the filth I didn't really notice the smell of hops was infecting my lungs at a young age. My Dad was just a heartbeat away. I could just trot up the steps and say a finished with my mystery. Novel can have another. He would run off to the car and get me another. Get me a coloring book. And so you know mine is not a simple story. Sorry of childhood riven by alcoholism. It was that as well but it was also one where with the backdrop of this pretty dirty Bob. I got to spend time with my dad which a lot of kids don't get to do a masterful storyteller one of those classic Irish figures with a pot again one hand in a story Were were of the my I would end up having stepfather also from Dublin. Who was just textbook Irish storyteller? Where you when you're miles from the punchline your your sides are you're hurting with laughter it's all in the story and not even in the the climax of the story? My Dad was more kind of cutting opinionated acerbic. I think one of the things probably that I got out of spending so much time in the pub was just listening to people pontificate about sport about politics and and hearing the people with not necessarily the most informed views having opinions as if they were heads of state and so forth and so I think I think more of that brand rand of of Irishmen Yuma's quite a driven person and driven to become educated and they grow apart and separate partners have difficult. Was the divorce in those days in Ireland for your parents so difficult that it didn't exist. That's how difficult there was illegal. When it was legal it was illegal and even after we we move to America so my mother could be with somebody else? Be With this other Irishman Eddie. My stepfather even about I forget now for five or ten years after we arrived in the states we we came. We left Ireland. Nineteen seventy nine. When I was nine there was a referendum in Ireland and It was voted down. Divorce voted down to the chance to acquire the legal right for divorce. And even my mother's five sisters four of the five of them voted To keep the ban on divorce it just it was a testament to how powerful the church was so when you went the Pennsylvania flew to Pennsylvania with your mom and pop ready. Did you know you leaving for good. I did not and probably just as well. I think that would have been a rupture. Sure and unimaginable rupture but instead it was an adventure just going off to America for the first time and the big buildings and the bright colors and all the choice. Go from Your Little Rickety Irish TV station where you TV programming where you have three channels. RT's one of them. What is there's one whole channel is an Irish only And Your Irish isn't quite up to snuff to watch to America a back then it was only probably a dozen channels or maybe twenty but it was everything was just a big new worlds and bounty and it didn't feel like I was giving anything up. I thought my dad who was a drinker but was a strapping handsome Tall healthy vital person thought he'd live forever and I thought we'd be back We'd be back initially on holiday and then we'd be back ultimately because I was Irish parish. You did go and visit him. One point just a little Afra- was that visit well. It was the. It's interesting speaking the power of the church. The church was so influential on the courts that it's actually a miracle that my mother got custody of my brother and me I think it speaks to just how much my dad was drinking. But she got custody to take us to America and the rules were. We would be raised as good Irish Catholics. That was number one on the court stipulated that the court stipulated the Supreme Court even because on. My father appeal the initial decision so I raised as good Irish Catholic. which meant take the sacraments? I had already done my communion but confirmation confessions fourth I went with my younger brother was five He had to make communion and the and the works and then second to continue to learn Irish so my mother had to homeschool us in Irish while she was redoing her residency in medicine. 'cause she's a medical doctor kidney doctor her and then thirdly almost as an afterthought here here were the visiting requirements and it was to go back every holiday vacation and so we went to America in the fall all of nineteen seventy-nine just as after the school had started. And so my first trip back in keeping with these requirements was Christmas of Nineteen seventy-nine and unfortunately on that trip my father declared to my mother that he was going to ignore the court order and that he was gonNA keep us and she again in redoing residency felt professionally Gulnara in America and didn't sort of have the luxury of being able to go through another court procedure. She done all that and was very worried. That there'd be an injunction been worried that given how pretty sexist frankly the judges had been throughout the process even though she was awarded custody. That might not go. So well a third time round because she'd she'd already gone through to court proceedings and so she Christmas Eve nineteen seventy-nine came and kind of snatch my brother and me away from my father's home were and he had a cagan. Regan was booze everywhere and it was sort of a reminder to her and affirmation to her of why she was taking us but she we serve drove a couple of days later in dead of night to to the airport and and went to American told my dad. Look you're not reliable to observe these terms so you'll have to come to America If you WANNA see the kids and and I spent much much of my childhood kind of waiting for my dad to come but I think because of the drink he could never get sorted To to get organized to do. So how'd you learn these days. I was by. Then we'd been in America for four years and I we had moved to Atlanta Georgia. which is where I went to high school? A public high school there Very a different environment very racially diverse very racially contested school and I was sort of living all that even by then. I probably still. If you'd asked me have you. Have you emigrated permanently. I probably I don't know you're just a kid. You just living in one foot in front of the other and so I don't know even then if I knew that we were now full-fledged Americans and probably weren't going to go back While in my youth at least and And so out of the blue one day was doing my homework. My Georgia history homework sitting on my bedroom floor and my mother came home early from work which never happened never she would never leave her patients early She could avoid it and she just walked in and said your father has died and he was forty seven so he was a kid really. Now that I'm forty nine Alma kid but it was such a shock and I it left me definitely feeling as if as kids do right you put yourself at the center of the drama and just asking myself why deny. Why didn't we stay? Why deny stay? Had We stayed yes he would have of course continue to drink but would he have drunk so much. Did you have anything to live for once. My brother and me were gone so those questions kind of nodded me not just in my youth but well into my adult years. You're good at sport in Fact Med. Cain for sport though the Justice Sport but many sports it was crazy about sports as. We're both my parents. Yeah and and and getting really high grads at the same time. Do you see yourselves. Sounds like a naturally good at that stuff. We really pushing yourself. You've used the word a couple times about my mother as driven and I suppose I'd watched her. She was a tremendous candice. Irish squash player was when she moved. She moved to London for medical school or try to do initially a PhD. If you can believe in biochemistry before she went to medical the school she sort of skyrocketed the ranks of The UK squash circuit. She then was or had been on. The Irish field. Hockey team was one of the best field hockey players in the country. Small Country I grant but nonetheless us an amazing athlete I remember when we moved to America. She decided to play in a racket triathlon. Squash quash tennis and racquetball and She ended up winning. You know the Pittsburgh racket triathlon as a kid. That was the coolest thing so that was my model in in terms of just playing and determination she'd be the first to say as so many women do. Oh I just work hard but I think she was. She had natural Gifts I if I feel like I have fewer natural gifts but I've certainly spent millions of hours hitting some baller and other shooting baskets or doing something that was my my youth. Youth was thinking that I would play sports at a very competitive level in college when I got to college. I did end up playing on a national championship. Squash team varsity squash team. But I actually wasn't good enough to play on the Varsity basketball team so I threw myself into hosting a program a little bit like this one but with a very narrow domain for subjects namely everything to do with Professional Sports College Sports Basketball Football Baseball and I was on with a group of guys rotating talk show. I did play by play for the College Basketball Team. Men's and women's I was doing all the stuff. Yeah and you can put your driven driven. That would again going forward achieving more and more stuff. But you would have been in your teens when you saw the Tim Square massacre ninety-nine unfold on TV what effect it did do watching that unfold and the spectacle of that solo man with shopping bags standing in front of a tank on the avenue of eternal. What what do you when you're watching that? Well I may be just for context just to underscore the role of serendipity in one's life. You know when I saw those images I mean many eh I suppose of my politically engaged. Your civically minded peers might have seen those images because they were watching the evening news. I didn't watch the evening news or read the newspaper Super For current events. I read the sports section and I only became struck and sort of paralyzed frozen in place by I seeing the images out of Tiananmen Square. Because I was working as an intern I was eighteen when I was working at the Sports Department of CBS News and sitting in a little video booth where a bunch of screens. The only screen I was watching was the Atlanta braves against the San Francisco giants and on the screen. Next next to the one that I was watching just randomly coincidentally while I was there it was just as the Chinese government was commencing. Its crackdown so we forget now. Now that Hong Kong is in the news of course there plenty of reasons to go back to Tiananmen and think about how it unfolded and so forth but there were actually weeks of peaceful protests before the crackdown began and I had not paid much attention to them. I vaguely knew they were happening. This was the hetty period you know. The Berlin Wall would fall five months later in November of Nineteen eighty-nine. This was June. And I just happened to be taking those notes sort of what I think is an inflection point in Chinese history and thus in in the world history and I was mortified by what was happening again was completely a political side. Didn't have much of a context. I didn't have a sense of exactly what anybody should do about about it but I did for the first time to myself. Maybe there's more to life than sports you know. Maybe I can continue to love. Sports even play them. Maybe even that'll be my career. And did you identify. And if I were that guy that guy standing in front of the tank whose name we don't know now identified since then no I couldn't have that would have been like identifying with Neil Armstrong. I'm strong on the moon. It was so far from me and who I was. So what's the searing. About that moment view I felt dumb. I'm an ignorant and I felt Har Fi. I felt a just a much more kind of universal reaction of of horror that a government mcadoo what they were doing to their people. I just I it was sort of innocent. You know. It was in a way by being a political wait. You can't do that. You came over a man Dan with shopping bags or disappear him. In the in the in the broad light of what what's happening it was sort of an affront to almost organic sense of what was uh like a a sort of pre political unmediated sense of what was right and just in the world and all it did for me in the moment again was just having me say I was so ignorant of world affairs that I think that was kind of Kryptonite to actually. Just go to a new place and be that ignorant different with so many gaps. Mention being okay with that like just to say I have so much to learn about the world. And that's okay. So you're on your way to be compounded PEPs of the the. US Women's basketball team or perhaps the most blisteringly will inform sportscaster. America had along those lines. What what what what what did you? How did you choose to shift? Course who's after becoming when I went back to campus to college my sophomore. You're my second year. I changed my subscription from USA. Today which which is a decent newspaper but had an amazing sport section which was all I read of it to the New York. Times I underlined all the the names names of foreign leaders. I knew geography well because I was Irish and I think every Irish person has kind of geography and their DNA because they know at some point they might have to leave so I was good at geography but everything else I was kinda starting from scratch and just self educated just quiz myself reading the news back just wanted to know what was happening and then later a couple years after getting adding a basic sense of of world affairs. I wanted to know what anybody could do. About bad things happening to people who were just trying to stand up for their rights and a big break for me other than getting to go to America in the first place I suppose was out of college getting another internship time at a foreign policy think tank called the Carnegie the endowment. That was run by somebody who'd been in the US government for thirty five years. He'd actually been ambassador to Thailand when the Cambodian and Vietnamese boat people were seeking seeking refuge. and He'd been very influential getting ties to open up their borders he'd been US ambassador to Turkey. When the Kurds were fleeing Saddam's crackdown in the wake of the Persian Gulf War or a ninety one and again he had this sort of the he'd been instrumental in getting President Bush? The first President Bush to create a protected zone for the Kurds in northern Iraq. So we had this hands hands on experience. I was his intern. My name is Samantha. Called Me Susan for the duration of my my internship. I make no impression early on on him. But he made a huge impression on me and and he's a guy who's an idealist like you but worldly with it practically could it what he wears how to me sleeve. Say Hi this is an outrage and slamming pipe. No he wasn't and I I would. I wouldn't go for that. I wouldn't have gone for that and I certainly don't go for it now that you know. He didn't have a hint of moralism Eliza to him he just had a sense and now we're fast forward so we're in. This is nineteen ninety two. The Wall has fallen. The Soviet Union has collapsed. There are a lot of questions to be. He answered about what America's role in the world should be. He would have again with the experience of having protected the Kurds and been I think useful as a US diplomat diplomat in Southeast Asia via the flow of refugees also been useful and getting America to welcome hundreds of thousands of Cambodians and Vietnamese. Back when he was stateside he had the experience of seeing. US power being harnessed for good he also had seen Vietnam and all the disastrous things that can come out of bad decisions so he was results focused totally doer and consequentialist thinking through to intentions. Don't get very far right. You can have all the good intentions all the noble intense but he was always thinking through. What the likely consequences of this tool or that tool being employed? And how can you get other countries also on side. So I had this in the saloon at this magazine Foreign Policy Magazine and you became foreign correspondent for the Balkans for that magazine which actually had no other foreign correspondent the first the first of that that it rendition. I was confusing because foreign policy that journal which was then the home of academic writings. Thanks very removed from my standpoint away from the real world maybe at most think-tank writers contributing. They had no correspondence. This was not the foreign policy of today which which is very newsy and report Taj over the they had none of that back then. So you're just using that essentially to get you a press pass well to get you into into the Balkans that choose war. That's a nice way to put you recall that what I did was. I couldn't get a press pass because I didn't have a home but I really wanted to go be a correspondent. Once I once more more at this man I'd worked for. Who was this doer? Once he became seized with what was happening in Bosnia. I wanted to be a good assistant a good intern. Even if he kept calling me. Susan I still to want to to do my job so I learn more. The more I learned a lot like the Tiananmen thing the more kind of horrified. I was the more I thought the. US should do. But I had no way to get to the region gin you wanted to be there. We'll this terrible terrible things herring now. I've interviewed many foreign correspondent on on this program of these and I suppose the thing that none not ever meant to put this to them. My strong suspicion is what they really want from. That is to see the doc secret of the world to see what it really means to be the some awful truth about the world about humanity. When I see people doing truly we could things as as many forces were doing in the Balkans at the time was? Did you need to know that to see how bad it could be anticipated against that. I don't think so I think I I think I skipped over that part. Perhaps I I take for granted. The bad things are going to happen in the world. I don't have any kind of no part of me is surprise. Maybe it's a poor character on my part but I the fact that a genocide being perpetrated in Europe it was less horrifying to me Excuse me less surprising to me that that was happening. Although it should should've been surprising that was weird and more surprising that the world was so passive in standing on the sidelines. And trying to figure out how to respond and so but you could have done that from Washington. I mean you know what what that was to see it to be there and said no I think more my again. My Mentor unwitting mentor. You know inculcated in me for sure. Having he having been an ambassador now to journalist but how important was in order to know what should be done to be there and to and talk to the victims of conflict to talk to the architects of conflict. That people were perpetrating. War comes to understand their mindset their warped logic and so I think that was really by virtue of working for him for year. He had an impatience with his own new role on the sidelines. At a think tank and I think he passed that impatience along along to me. A very impressionable. Twenty two year old and I actually would have happily worked at an NGO you know to help resettle refugees VG's or to pass out humanitarian assistance or just wanted to be useful. I wanted to do something to help. But as as few skills as I had as a as a potential war correspondent I had even fewer as an and aid worker as somebody who could be a humanitarian so for me journalism was a means to an end. I thought which is not the reason. A lot of people go into Journalism Mike Grant but for me it was how can get over there so I can learn more so I can have a sense of what should be done. I had been a sports reporter. I know how to write a lead. I know how to write on deadline. How to write kind of I would learn a lot more about how to write and bring stuff to lot to bridge the distance in a feeling if if every if readers and decision makers knew what those who are there no they would do more? That was the logic. So why wasn't that enough you once you went there. Why did you then want to do more than just bring stuff to light and to actually be in the room where decisions are made or not made about intervening in such situations? Initially it was enough the I had to overcome my fear my terror of being in war zone because I was and and kind of not a natural work respondent is sort of other people seem to kind of sort of what you were describing earlier like you can be kind of content with just the the the extremity of experience. I didn't have that feeling but I did have a sense of great a great sense of gratification that I got to tell their story here. These people being ravaged on the base of their religion their ethnicity or having survived something horrific hiding under bodies in a mass grave raving. You can't believe the stories you're hearing and I had the privilege of being able to tell those stories for major ultimately go beyond my what we should have said is my forged Letter for a press credential for foreign policy the editor there never knew that he had a foreign correspondent. Because I went in and took his station was why wasn't that enough so in telling their stories. It wasn't enough until it became very clear to me that nobody's GonNa do anything about it that the NATO planes that were flying overhead that we're watching watching what was happening that were were leaders. who were reading? You know my work but also above all the work various tablets correspondence. It wasn't moving them. And so I went from people welcoming me into their homes and asking in and then being grateful to us to be telling their stories to them slamming the doors in our face and seeing us as has kind of ambassadors of impotence and so at that point I didn't decide to go be a diplomat or anything like that I thought. Maybe there's a role at the new international criminal tribunals that are being built at The Hague. Maybe there's a role for tracking down these perpetrators of these horrible crimes. Nobody seems to climb to stop the crimes before they occur. Maybe there's something to be done. After the fact so that's why I went to law school given that the out of the masses masochism the US leads on the gun positions since which ended up relieving the siege of Sarajevo. Assuming that could be done a lot earlier and you you you knew that at the time and foot you wanted to be advocating for something like that. I mean I played it straight in my reporting on one level in the sense that I you know I wasn't an opinion writer I was just describing what was happening to people and describing what it it was life for the people to see those NATO planes overhead. Not doing anything. What were you thinking? I was thinking. Absolutely we've exhausted every tool in the toolbox. The UN Security Council granted granted with Russia. Kind of on. Its back in those years but had authorized the enforcement of its resolutions and the United States and other countries were taking the decision not ought to act on the legal authorization. They had in order to prevent crimes against humanity and genocide. But that was your view Europeans injecting. It was their backyard and they went to anything until the united nodded. Steitz took a position that the lady. Yeah the United States eventually so I leave to law school to go to law school thinking. Hey because none of writing isn't moving anybody in the decision makers or where are they are and then it turned out there was a line that the Serbs in particular could not cross and that was a second market massacre in Sarajevo. which occurred just as I was leaving the region to go to law school such that when I got to campus as you said NATO actually did act? I wasn't there for it. I'd already kind of you know carved out this new path to go on a different direction but actually on one level did redeem. You know certainly the the the role for US leadership as it was going to be no action. There was a major a collective action problem in the world absent that kind of leadership. I think that's still the case on many global issues even today but also redeem the power of the pen which I think you can make huge difference. I just wasn't there to to witness that difference being made On online on the listen. This is conversations with Richard Fidler on. ABC Radio you can subscribe to the conversations podcast to find rundown long just head to ABC dot net dot edu slash conversations. In those years after law school. You read a book called a problem from Hell. America and the age of genocide which is roof untitled title and try and couldn't get it published for while it was picked up in Indiana go to Pulitzer Prize. And that's what attracted Senator Obama's attention at the time time you might get a lot of different things in that that there was this false dichotomy at work when Americans but talking about getting involved in actions overseas where terrible things were happening this. It's you do do nothing or boots on the ground in the Marines will do nothing and you arguing. There's a whole range of responses that are possible in between those two Paul's and there's just a bit of imagination that's often and required which is often weirdly enough shortly in short supply in these in these matters. Did you fund Senator Obama or did he find you as well as a bit of both. I remember remember his immortal Democratic National Convention speech where he burst onto the scene. I being sports fan though I subsequently gone written books books and and become a professor at Harvard's Kennedy School Teaching Young People About Public Service and US foreign policy and human rights still sports fan. So I was watching the Boston Red Sox game on TV instead of watching the Democratic national convention but I was flipping in the commercials and I flipped and I just caught. He had just started speaking and I sat in my living room in Boston. Just just transfixed by this person talking with this vision about how America could be more united. I mean now I look back to two thousand four and I think Oh oh. Gosh we didn't even know polarization then you know compared to how it is today fifteen years later but I would just add never heard somebody speak to our aspirations in a way the that hit me so deep and so black forward than to November of two thousand four George W. Bush was up for reelection. He'd invaded Iraq. He'd instituted torture. He opened opened prison facility in Guantanamo Bay I was by then of course a very political Lee minded person I had canvas for John Kerry who was his opponent Kerry we lost very narrowly but he lost and the only bright spot in that election. Was that this incredibly compelling spokesperson for our better angels had been elected so I sent him this book. I don't know that he would have found it on his own Through a friend of a friend and then but I didn't expect him to follow up. I sent the book to a lot of people who didn't and follow up long book. It's about genocide and Barack Obama had other things on his mind as he was on his way from Illinois to Washington for the first time setting up as a senator in and ultimately really he reached out and he said let's have dinner and we sat down and what was really interesting about him and that now that I know him so well it makes perfect sense but at the time was really striking. King was that even though. My Book was on this quite narrow question of American responses to the major genocides of the twentieth century looking at these patterns of response non-response bonds. He looked at things like the US doing nothing. Let's say in the face of the Rwandan genocide. Eight hundred thousand people or more were brutally murdered to death in one hundred hundred days and president. Clinton didn't even call a cabinet level meeting to discuss what should be done to me. The toolbox that you described remain completely closed. He saw that as being of of a piece with the US invasion of Iraq where the human consequences of that invasion were not at all thought through from zero to one hundred or zero essentially. There's one way to look at the commonality I think for him. It was more in both cases. The human beings in the countries in and of themselves don't rise for proper reflection and consideration and thus your consequential ism which every policy process has some of until trump probably. But you're consequential quench Elizabeth is inevitably shortsighted. So you're not you're on Rwanda you're thinking we don't want the UN peacekeepers to get in trouble because then maybe US forces will have to go and rescue them. So let's get the peacekeepers out not thinking about eight hundred thousand people who are any number of people who might be killed in the wake of the withdrawal the people who were there to protect them in Iraq you think wrongly WMD or some terrorism bogus terrorism justification. But you're not even really thinking through at all what will happen if the Iraqi state is dismantled and there is nothing to put in. Its the place. 'cause you're not thinking about Iraqis you're thinking about yourself so I just thought that's interesting right that a a a sin of omission a major sin of comission could be reflective of the same kind of structural inattention too far in life. And so I thought this guy I want to stick around for this guy. He's going places. Says although I will say at that first dinner I said to him. You know people say you might run for president soon for two thousand eight. This was now early. Two thousand five. He said what he said. That would be so presumptuous. I I'd have to start running next year. That's crazy convincing. When he said that he not only was convincing he was convincing because he believed it? As you know. People who believe such things are more convincing than those who are faking it no. He didn't think he was going to run but he ended up going to the Senate and then set off for about a month. We'll be able to get anything done in this. Plus there was it really did grow out of a functional impatience and also I think he was nervous. That Senator Clinton who was the front runner for the Democratic nomination that she would have a hard time bringing Republicans over to create a kind kind of a strong foundation which take back the country from the Republican Party and you need some independents and Republicans vote with you at least then you. That was the logic of of kind of coalition politics and so he did decide to run. In the meantime I had gone. I'd left Harvard to go and work with him in his Senate office as he tried to flesh out what a principled principled and tough foreign policy and sellable foreign policy would would look like so. We spent the better part of a year doing that. I joined his campaign where learned bucketloads about American American politics and the importance of the Iowa caucus in choosing the Democratic nominee. And that remains a pretty true today that these that we tend to look at American American elections in the macro and say okay. WHO's up in the horse race? You know today you know. Elizabeth Warren is here in the national polls or Joe Biden or this or that and what can matter in fact act is much more granular and just about a couple of states and they're sort of first mover Potential to to swing the race. And that's what happened with Obama and then I rode this wave into into the White House's is human rights adviser Yes you are in the happens happens That room where it happens with the decision is made and your roles on the National National Security Council within the White House is human rights adviser as and multilateral businesses will but that means you've got to be that person goes excuse me in the meeting on you you guys excuse me. There's a humid. There's a moral dimension to you. Could it be that annoying person in most annoying person. The skunk at the launch party. They say right right and not always right because sometimes you're you know it's not always the case that the system that all the gravity is going to push you in directions that are because Barack Obama dominate the president that are negligent of human rights or human consequences. But more often than you'd expect there's so much gravity pushing toward increasing military assistance assistance without reflecting on how that assistance is being used a kind enough to why all these things these different times. You have to choose between a catastrophic had a stroke situation and one. That's terrible and I knew you know having written a problem from Hell in writing that I'd interviewed hundreds of US officials so again. It wasn't like I came in thinking of this is going to be so easy. I've got the year the president you know The hundreds of years of American foreign policy all bets are off. We're here I mean I didn't have that conception I knew institutionally usually how much cuts toward the short term over the long term and how conceptions of of of of a trade off between interests and values are very that notion they are intention is very entrenched and no amount of data or analytic work. That shows that actually our values and our interests are much more aligned than people think. Hello because people have different conceptions so I knew I was going to have to fight those fights but I was lucky in that I had a president who had my back which didn't mean that my present was always going to agree with me but it meant he would always want my voice heard. It seems like from your account. He would say oh. Yeah Yeah Yeah he gave you a bit of A. Yeah yeah a few times. But then he'd get quite wanted to contribute. I'm just bring up the example here. Because it's kind of illustrates the point having written genocide. You were very king that the president should make some reference to the genocide of the Armenian people that happened a hundred years ago guy in Turkey and the president hadn't done that yet. Hadn't used the word genocide word to describe what happened. It's a controversial Turkish. People hated the Turkish government with very very opposed. Just tell me how that unfolded first of all. There was the opportunity to do that in Turkey to smack that speech in Turkey. He promised a million Americans he would do this you. You had promised on his behalf that he would call genocide a genocide. There's something in State Department documents referred to it as something like agenda side at the time he didn't in Turkey but then there was the opportunity to do that in Washington at Holocaust Memorial Day. Just tell me how that downfall few and how can you not to mention and chase off to him to get him to say that I am at that time. Eight months pregnant I'd met my now husband then husband and luckily currently still husband On the Obama Campaign Obama been kind of a matchmaker not at the outset but as I tried to screw up my relationship he tried to keep me in it and he's a good kind of romance coach as well. Wells a good commander in chief but here I have come into the White House thinking that we are going to keep our promises and by and large we did keep our promises but on this issue as Obama's looking out out at polling American level the world out of the deepest economic recession since the Great Depression as he's looking to fulfill a campaign promise of drawing us the US troops out of Iraq. He's he's not thinking about the Armenians eighteen fifty exactly quite as much as I am and it is my job and it's why he had me in. The job was to remind him but interestingly the gatekeepers not interested in this is not surprising but the gatekeepers around him in not wanting him to Kinda. If feel bad I think about that tension given all that he was carrying just decided not to have a meeting and just treat the issue as settle. We would not recognize the genocide. And I'm they're trying to figure out. How am I gonNA get to Obama? And why won't anybody let us just air. It air these this debate because I think there's a good interest based argument. Actually to recognize and pull the band mandate off and do it early in your presidency of to think about it again you don't want. US diplomats lying in office skating. When we we know what's true? Let's get it get it over with and there'll be a momentary you know even even outright rupture but probably they'll withdraw the ambassador and then they'll be back and it'll be over and we will build our promise in their millions of Americans. I mean there's domestic interest. I in this as well. who had voted for Obama thinking that he would fulfil his from so I just wanted to be able to make that argument if he decides to go different direction? That's that's why they're paying the big bucks. He's the president. I'm not what I get it. No process though no team of rivals gathering and weighing all of this and so I'm sort of heartbroken by what I think is a process failure failure as well as a policy decision that I don't agree with. He goes to the Armenian genocide Remembrance Day. Which is the day we would recognize fell on April twenty falls every year on April twenty twenty-fourth on April twenty third? It happens to be Holocaust. Remembrance Day he's giving remarks. I'm backstage having helped work on those remarks. which don't mention the Armenians is really about the genocide? Hitler's crimes against the Jews enjoyed months pregnant. And I'm eight months pregnant and I'm kind of wandering security guard comes up to me like what are you doing here. Where's your bad? I realize and left my badge. This shows you again. The humanity of policymaker. I'm like Oh Gosh I don't know my badge and the security guards about to manhandle by eight hundred eight months pregnant body kind of out of the venue when I hear Obama behind me who have not talked to one on one since he got into the into the White House saying. Hey she's with me you know layoffs and I'm so relieved because the band exactly. Yeah completely and I felt like a road because I wasn't having the influence influence I want onto on policy at that point and And so he the security guard goes away and it turns out a bunch trying to use the restroom and and so he sees me like how are you. What are you going to call the baby? The House cast you know. How's it going my responses? I really worried about the Armenians and I just see his against the humanity of leadership. You know his face just falls and you could just tell he's thinking. Can I have one conversation about baby names. That doesn't like lead me to some crossroads of lesser evils. And you're the President Yar. Yeah that's was sort of my views. That's your job. That's exactly but I think in fairness in the same way that I was irritated that there hadn't been a fair process. He he wouldn't want to be cornered is he. Seeking to use the restroom so we end up having this when you think about it actually but anyway sorry having a horrible are. We're probably to this day our most most difficult conversation where it just you know. He Fed me a bill goods. I thought on on his logic for doing what he was doing which was rooted in some bogus argument that had been made to him by one of his advisors is which I would have challenged that. I've been in the room with that adviser when they made the argument but they had more access than I did so in the end he kinda stormed off and within the hour. My water broke oak and so my son declan was born on Armenian genocide remembrance. Day a month early showing you again. At that time how emotional. I was in how how heartbroken I was just with. We said we were going to do something. It was the right thing to do. I thought there were competing at no point. I think his view is unreasonable. I just thought all things considered he should have tipped in the direction of an argument with the president of the United States brought on childbirth. That's how it was in D. and so my son is more ten now now is more conversant in what happened in. The Armenian genocide rightly or wrongly than your average bear but But Yeah I mean this is how it works like you don't cease to be a person. Listen with a family with a heart you know with also I hope an ability you know I tried to put myself in Obama's shoes. I could totally see. Why if you're him Um you just don't want to rock the boat and even if you tell yourself that there's GonNa be some rainy day subsequently where you can have your cake and eat it too but this is not that day? And that's often. What policymakers do they put off the harder decisions? He did it much more rarely than most he tended to sorta own the moment and pull. BANDAIDS off left and right. But but in this instance it was disappointing. You had some successes. In that role. There was a case of the Iraqi translators the translators who worked for the US forces that were in terrible trouble. Some three hundred had been murdered in Iraq and they just had been enough bureaucratic innogy having them come as refugees to the United States. You had you had a great deal of success with that that was that's amongst anything. Absolutely I mean should low hanging fruit. It should have been something. The Bush administration of all administrations had taken full ownership of from the beginning after the invasion. They didn't and so we were able to bring thousands tens of thousands of Iraqi refugees and thousands of interpreters and translators who are being targeted because of their affiliation with US trump is now it looks like ending that program Iran in a way that is going to be absolutely devastating for those who remain so that brings us now just dumping a bit forward for the fortieth twenty thirteen and the bombers appointed you as the United Nations ambassador. The job you really wanted to the you're on vacation in Ireland when you got. Reports of Syrian chemical weapons attack in the suburbs off Damascus. This is terrible attack and the president before had said that if President Assad in Syria had used chemical EMIKO weapons then that would be a red line and the United States would then look to get involved but to involve itself. This came up in the presidency and a terrible moment a terrible atrocities that took place there so bomber was really obliged to act that point having said the report the reputation of the United States on the line saying we must therefore act that he didn't he didn't in the end why. What was the reasoning behind that? Well he did act but he didn't don't act militarily so I want to draw that distinction but you know he in the very wake of the attack decided he was going to use military force. It was is going to be limited. It was going to be designed to get the Syrian regime. NOT TO G- acids people again. The targets by definition could not be Syrian. Chemical the weapons facilities because that would cause large-scale civilian harm. So you're looking at hitting things that are involved in the Syrian military apparatus but not directly involved in chemical weapons use. He and I was his. UN Ambassador all of a sudden. I'm in that role and this happens within weeks as you say of my arrival the role I'm tasked along with John Kerry to build a global coalition to join the United States. I don't think it was a testament to my crummy diplomatic skills. Which I think think I managed other diplomatic assignments More ably but the coalition that we were able to build included to other countries the United Kingdom and France united it kingdom then David Cameron showing the great foresight for which he's now known twice over Decided to go to the British parliament in order to seek the approval of the parliament to be part of the coalition Polish in thinking that he was going to get a rubber stamp there and the promise had no and so now Obama finds himself with exactly one coalition partner for these strikes that are going to be limited and he he does not decide to forgo military force he decides instead to say okay. We're GONNA take our time here. We're going to go to Congress. CONGRESS WE'RE GONNA get Congress's support because to go to war even in a limited way at to retaliate militarily without allies without an International Security Council resolution because of course Russia would block that and without domestic support. That's a heck of a way to start a military engagement so was not forthcoming. No not they would in in the end. What are we will need a resolution to go forward? That would mean dealing with a Senate run by Mitch. McConnell who made it clear he was going to oppose everything everything that Obama proposed not on its merits but just sheely on the base of a posing Obama because he said we must create a successful presidency. Now the president would have done and did he not know that he loves senators on each team. Accent is that it's it was a terrible misjudgment. No question of the Congressional Dynamics Hammocks and Chuck Hagel Joe Biden. John Kerry who had a combined seven plus decades of legislative experience thought that we could get the votes Israel APEC very influential. Lobbying group was staunchly behind President Obama's action we had never had a circumstance where be Netanyahu backing something had produced anything other than Congress going along with it and so I know it seems naive now because it didn't work but I can tell you that. He had every intention of getting the votes in not getting the votes and seeing that fall away. I think he did a good job with President Putin using kind of smoke and mirrors and a bit of bluffing to convince Putin that we're still going to strike such that Putin then took up the opportunity to help destroy series chemical weapons program and that then became my first major task at UN was negotiating the destruction of thirteen hundred tons ends of chemical weapons which I did with the Russian ambassador which is not nothing I mean. That's why I challenge you saying well. We didn't act. I mean getting rid of thirteen hundred tons of chemical weapons. was you know. The entirety of the Syrian declared chemical weapons program. Obviously they kept a small stockpile that they have used subsequently but nowhere near at the scale that they were using at that point. So it's not enough. I'm not pretending it did anything to change the dynamics of the Syrian war if anything this whole sequence I think exposed Obama's lack of enthusiasm and the lack of domestic support for four military action which probably gave the searing government a greater sense of impunity and Putin as well do you think this is largely. We're seeing now a retreat of America from the wool. I think there is a serious fraying of the constituency On the far left and the far-right the trump right which is no longer the far right but the right four for us leadership in part because there is a conflation in the public some of the public's mind between US leadership and the use of US military force there's very very little enthusiasm for the use of US military force. There's great sympathy for the idea of bringing our troops home which unfortunately trump is not done. But that's very different so I think what is going to have to happen for trump's successor. Her is he's GonNa he or she is going to have to do a much better job than we did really bringing home why. US leadership in the world matters tangibly for American constituents silence. It's one thing to talk about. The Paris agreement talk about climate. Change is an abstraction is another thing to talk about it in terms of the harms. It's actually causing people whether farmers or people who live on the coast us in the United States it's one thing to talk about. Peacekeeping as an abstraction or why we should put that fit the bill for for twenty five percent of that. It's another thing to actually talk about. US embassies US businesses and so forth. That are active. You know all around the world and how they benefit from a more stable world we have we need to make the case more compellingly than we have. It's been fascinating speaking with you ambassador so applicable. Thank you so much thank you Samantha. Powers' book is called the education of an idealist this this news conversations Richard Fidler ABC dot net dot edu slash conversations is our website. I'm Richard Fiber. You've been listening to a podcast of conversations with Richard Fidler for more conversations interviews. Please go to the website. ABC Saint Dot net dot edu slash conversations. 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Data and the future of money in politics with RevUp CEO Steve Spinner
"The today show is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Which is the presenting sponsor of Rico decode ZipRecruiter's powerful technology finds people with the right experience for your job and actively invites them to apply. So you get qualified candidates fast. Now, our listeners can try it for free ZipRecruiter dot com slash decode. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Hi, I'm Karen Swisher editor at large of Recode. You may know me as the person who egged the White House on Halloween. But in my spare time, I talk tech. And you're listening to Rico decode from the vox media podcast network today. I'm passing the microphone to Recode senior finance editor teddy schlieffer before this week's midterm elections. He sat down with Rev up CEO Steve spinner for fascinating, deep dive into the art of political fundraising. Let's take a listen. Thanks car. I'm here with Steve spinner, the founder and CEO of Rev up software. He's the campaign chair for congressman Roque Kana and he previously worked as a California finance chair through Bama, Biden twenty twelve campaign. Steve welcome to Recode decode nice to see a teddy. So we're here to talk about Steve's background and kind of political fundraising. Obviously a lot of listeners here might be kind of more familiar with startup fundraising. I used to cover in my old life campaign, finance and donors known Steve. But for folks, you don't know who you are. I want to start with. How'd you get to Silicon Valley? You're you're not from originally like so many people from California they come from elsewhere originally. Sure, I am definitely like that. I was born and bred in a Long Island New York to doctors family, and we're in New York Long Island, or if I'm supposed to correctly pronounce it Long Island, Vince island a awhile since I've had that accent. And I broke my dad's heart in college when I took economics and fell in love with that and told them I wasn't premed and ever since then worked on the east coast and worked a lot internationally in my twenties, so arcton Europe and then in Asia and then worked in Atlanta for the Olympics. And and then went to business school up in Boston. And then worked at NBC in New York at thirty Rockefeller plaza did that in late nineties when it was owned by General Electric for a number of years and what we're doing business development corporate development. So is there when MSNBC was was formed and was involved in all the internet activities that they did had a fantastic. Time there and did that for a couple years in New York City, and then an opportunity came up that if the deal happened, I knew it was going to ask me to leave the bosom of thirty Rockefeller plaza. A wonderful wonderful building to work in overlooking. The the Christmas tree sure, even though I'm proud you. And I love you could still go ice skating now that that's the, you know, there's there's some I'm not very good on skates. So, but I love the office, and then the opportunity came up and that had me come out to Californian, and I've never looked back. I still want here still with NBC then. Yeah. NBC initially was there for a number of other couple years had a wonderful ride there, and you know, had been doing business Veldman turn me into general manager, turn me into an executive and really formative years professionally for me in my late twenties early thirties, and I've been here ever since I've been here for twenty years and have done a number of startups out here have done things on the investment side. But yes, dead. Definitely get involved in politics. For the first time in two thousand five right after the the carry loss where I I started getting involved in fundraising. So growing up you were not you would you would say, you're a political junkie kind of growing up. Or is this something you've just not really know these act- opposite. I am. I am the problem with the twenty something. So I I am the epitome of that. I was very very focused on my career learning, you know, skills that I thought I would need for the rest of my life, professionally and I was not at all at all engaged. Even though I went to Wesleyan university for undergrad, and I'm proud Wesleyan graduate. I was not politically engaged in my twenties into my early thirties. And I've regretted it ever since having not been involved earlier in my life, but I made up for more than made up for it in in the year sentence area. So so in two thousand four John Kerry loses, but you said that was kind of after that that was kind of the moment where he started getting involved. What was kind of the first moment. What what was the first time you kinda gone volved campaign finance? So the first moment was a perfect example of the Silicon Valley leadership slash potential naive. Detaille, and I was the poster child for that where a little old me after the law said, you know, what maybe if I had been involved, maybe I could have had a small difference in the outcome and many of us felt the same way. And so very simple. I just called up a couple of friends of mine who had been very engaged in politics and had done at a senior level were at the time known as very very strong fundraisers. And I just said, hey, look, I can't work in politics. I don't want to work. I like being a a tech person. But I wanna get involved. I wanna help try to see if I can make a difference, albeit a small one in the aggregated adds up to a lot. If a lot of people do, and so they said that's great come to an event, you know, come contribute. That's great. I went to it in February of two thousand five who was who was the guy invited you. Well, the first one was a guy named Donnie Fowler who is running for DNC chair and the second one a few weeks later was for Senator Ted Kennedy. And after those two checks the third one that I could ask for 'em like low you haven't met my wife. These checks are are coming to fast. And they're too big. I can't afford to do all this writing. If you can't write all these things. What else can you do? And that's when they introduced me to raising which is different because I mean, you're not, you know, a billionaire your regular guy. Exactly. But the art of fundraising is there's there's kind of givers, and there's fundraisers and some people straddle it, so it's two thousand five and you're sort of introduced to this by a couple of people in Silicon Valley, and that's it. I tried to treat it like business and say, okay, if I'm going to do this. What are the right ways to do it? What are the best practices that you can share? And I was very quickly disappointed when they said, they aren't back practices fundraising. You know, you get an invitation you get an Email, you get a link, and you send it out you talk to people, and after many times many failed attempts to try to get you know, the best practices of what are the do's the don'ts. Just kind of everyone threw up their arms and just started doing it myself. And I'm sure for the first, you know, six nine months, I made every possible mistake you can every Amer. Sure thing you could do to doesn't six thousand six trying to help I was helping Marc Goldenberg with wind back the house. Venture capitalist in town. But he was major political fundraiser. It's kinda slow down. He's not as the last decade ES ever since Obama one. Yeah. But at the time he had been carries California chair what I did for Obama in two thousand twelve he did for carrying two thousand four. And so I just started helping them, and I just started realizing that there's a very high correlation to raising money for a candidate as there is raising money for a company, you have to be really passionate about what it is that you are trying to get people excited about and inspired so much that they're interested in in giving and whatever appropriate amount it is for them. And if you could just use certain skills that you would do in a business world, which is try to put the right? Ask in front of the right person at the right time and be respectful and the keyword. There is be respectful, then then people or more likely to be interested in participating, and it's the opposite of this spray and pray of sending out an Email to five thousand people or five hundred thousand people and getting. Point zero zero zero one percent to click on it and then give low medium high dollars. Mine was the opposite. Mine was a curative manner of just trying to be you know, if I knew someone like climate change to be able to put a climate change event in front of them. If I knew someone like to go to a small intimate event of six twelve you know, people to put that in front of if I knew that someone like to go to big events of a thousand people, you know, to do that if people were willing to travel to be able to do that as well. You know, the the big thing was, you know, I'm preempting this here talking about Obama. But, you know, the big event was the Obama Oprah event in montecito in Santa Barbara in two thousand seven, and you know, that was one where you know, we're involved in in the Obama campaign, and that's one that had just such interest nationally at the time. But you know, I was able to be after Oprah herself the the largest fundraiser for it just because there were so many people that would. Yeah. No. There is a there's a there's a cool picture about that. But that's about the extent of that. But let's let's drill down a little more on kind of like how fundraising is done. And what what may what you were doing different. I mean fundraising is not that different from kind of basic human relationships where you're thinking about people, you know, and you try and kind of bond with people that you, you know, you're not right. You not just going around and saying like Hello. These are the force four hundred. Let's ask each of them for twenty seven hundred dollars. It's basically you're kind of using. I'm suet shirt. I a silken valley the people, you know, in town and kinda describe like the art of the ask. How's it done? Yeah. I mean, again, the rape, prevail. Yeah. So well before Rev up and even before me, historically for fundraising at at very high levels. Let's just talk about the presidential level. Sharon, let's talk about Obama, you know, in two thousand seven since I just preempted it with my last comment about Oprah before two thousand seven what had happened in two thousand and four what happened two thousand and even in the nineties a lot of times, the the best quote, unquote, fundraise. At the time were Uber wealthy. Individuals. Who had for many many years been extremely exceedingly generous with their own funds giving to their causes more importantly giving to others causes as well. So that when they got passionate about a candidate that they wanted to see be president, and they wanted to open their home and be a fundraiser. That's when they would start cashing their chips and say, hey, remember, when I helped you with your fundraising effort over there, can I have you helped me over here with mine and there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever. That's the way any type of fundraising goes, whether it be philanthropic or political. Yeah. That's the way it worked because those were big dollars being asked and given by big people, and you do it law big numbers. And those were the biggest fundraisers at the time and a lot of them got the purpose of it being the ambassadors, and so ended up some of the big fundraisers are brand marquee names. You know, the George sources of the world Oprah's the world are like celebrities kind of asking other celebrities for money. Correct. Correct. And. And that obviously could not and could not be me. I was super super excited about Senator Obama at the time. I was one of the first fifty people to get involved in the campaign. You know, months before it was officially announced in early February of two thousand seven, and I just wanted to help could not do it fulltime. Didn't wanna do it fulltime wanted to still have a job he'll have a career, but be able to help where I could which was if if I can't write a big check. And even at the time, they couldn't take twenty three hundred dollars. Max you could you could individual right, but I can help by being a fundraiser. And by being a fundraiser meant not calling all these chips because I didn't have those it was as I had mentioned just no research and get to know, my friends, and at the time I had about two thousand people that I knew broadly defined new through Lincoln Facebook. Again, it's so many years ago. This is the early stage now social media, and I would just be very very careful about just understanding, and I'd have copious notes copious pads of paper about who liked what you know. As I was mentioning earlier who liked to go to events or small events, or who could write big checks or write only small checks who could like to travel for events who liked to go to a climate change event or a women's only event at the time. And I was just always tried to be very very careful to put the right? Ask him from the right person that right time. And if you do that you do that. Well, then rather than this point zero zero one yield that online does is you get forty percent yield fifty sixty seventy and obviously at you. It's I mean, it's not this is very much underdog story. But it's not as if you had news zero people have kind of means in America, of course. Yeah. Right. I mean, I knew some, but I mean, I didn't know him necessarily in this vein so much, and I it's just when you write when you take an Email, you just customize top line of it. And you just recognize that, you know, teddy great senior the other day. I know you like to go to I know you're particularly interested in climate change events. Here's a really good one for you. All of a sudden, you're going to read that Email. You're going to recognize that that's a unique Email that was sent to you. And there is a highly. Likelihood higher yield potential from that. Let's talk about. I mean, you you're very very successful. I mean, you know, I think they're in two thousand twelve or jumping around a little bit. But twelve your top five. So I started on so in two thousand seventeen thousand eight top ten. Yup. And who were some other people in in your kind of stratosphere? Well, I mean, it wouldn't be, you know, a lot of names that people that follow here would would necessarily recognize and so forth. But you know, there were there were a lot of traditional fundraisers in there. And I was one of the few first time about people in the top thirty. And it was something. I was exceedingly proud of. But what the campaign was really excited was was the way that we did it. It was the first time that people had used quote, unquote, data in a way that it was now it'd be defined as data analytics, Jack, then it certainly wasn't that cat classification, and they liked it. We got some great press around it. And it continued the momentum in two thousand twelve I took that to a whole new level in two thousand twelve I was reported as being top three got an in the country, and how much how much of that as much respect a lot. Good thing about this like you you can see kind of campaign disclosures. But campaign fundraising is in some ways like venture fundraising. It's very competitive. There's there's, you know, there is some ego involved in kind of who's raised wad. And you know, so Steve is kind of focused more on you know, on on raising. What is now twenty seven hundred hour chunks, but just for folks who are not aware. I mean, there's a whole world of which we can get into a bit couple of so called soft money, which is super PACS and millions of dollars. And that's not the world. That's not the world. I live in. I I liked the hard money the official the FCC reported money where people are proud to to make the contribution. And there are limits. There are limits. I like a world delimits, and I would deal with everything from the max of, you know, not just the twenty-seven hundreds. But to the committees of the DNC's, the SEC triple C's, the victory funds and so forth, which would be up to seventy five thousand dollars in total. But not this stuff that you read about the hundreds of thousands, certainly millions or even tens of millions of dollars. That's a world that I. I have not played in for professional political and personal regions. Do you ever kind of like just like step back reflecting? How crazy the last like, you know, I'm sure like, you know, you were talking about four about how you never really been in grow. You didn't grow up kind of seeing yourself with some political animal, but like you kind of made into the top tier of finance folks, basically just through hard work and kind of an innovative idea that I'm going to be more strategic beheads done. But also, I appreciate that. And there is obviously a great amount of truth to that. But it's also to do it in a way that is putting the donor. I, you know, being respectful. I mean, and I've said that a couple times I say that zillion times like respect in fundraising. I can't say that enough. How important that is not just for me? But for anyone who wants to do it, whether it be for politics, or whether it be for nonprofits, or or academic fundraising anything you do if you compete respectful of the other person, you're more likely to have a positive outcome. And they'll feel really good about it as well. And then the last thing is that you had mentioned the competitiveness of. Yeah. Absolutely. Historically, it had been terribly competitive. And in some cases, it's still persists. What I've always enjoyed is working collaboratively working in teams sharing credit that the whole is greater than the individual parts. And so it's not just the individual fundraising. I did. But you know, I wrote the business plan for tech for Obama wrote the business plan for Obama victory. Trustees at the business plan for south Asians for Obama because you know, obviously, the the white Jew in me. You know that you that's obvious that I would. But that those efforts together raise many, many many multiples of what is in individual could. But you do it in. So that everyone participates everyone gets credit for you. You know, it's the it's the big ten kind of thing. And that's where the real value of what I was able to do, you know came in. 'cause you know, my time there's only certain amount of time. I can volunteer fundraiser. There's only so many people, I know, but if you build initiatives that take hold that grow roots, and that not just one or five or ten or twenty people, but one hundred or three hundred people can participate in and they can make their own then you can have this huge huge huge multiplier effect and raise that much more money. All right, Steve ask more questions few into a quick break an hour from our sponsors and be back to talk more specifically about Rev up or Steve is the CEO back in a sec. Thanks teddy. Today's show is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Which is the presenting sponsor of Rico decode here's a story about one business looking for the right candidates on the road to. Hired. This is the road to hired brought to you by ZipRecruiter and their UFO crashes on this planet cults me board. That's Christian Hubner co founder and head of product at coda bowl a game that uses fuzzy aliens to teach kids programming skills Kotova was founded in two thousand thirteen and it's now been used in tens of thousands of US elementary schools. It's a company with a mission. If programming is something that everyone learns to do in. They're young. It's not the boy thing or girl thing or nerd thing. It's just something everybody learns as code grew. Gretchen was wearing a lot of hats, all of our sales and marketing all of our game design first curriculum. So to scale she needed to find talented and passionate people fast. So she turned to ZipRecruiter and use their candidate screening feature. My favorite thing was the breaker questions because as able to ask people, why do you think it's important for kids to learn to code? It's really important that I know the answer to that. And that's how ZipRecruiter helped Gretchen hire a skilled game artist. Who is the perfect fit for Kotal finding that person? Feels like finding a needle in a haystack. We were able to find somebody who matched our culture who believes in what we're trying to accomplish. But who also had all the skills that we were looking for you sip recruiter to find candidates that have Paul of what you're looking for. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Thanks to ZipRecruiter for sponsoring this episode. Try ZipRecruiter for free by going to ZipRecruiter dot com slash decode. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash decode back to you teddy. We're back here with Steve spinner at the CEO of Rev up. So let's finish the story or so after twenty twelve you've kind of pioneered this new way, you're still fundraising voluntarily I'm still doing manually manually. This is an member you didn't grow up dreaming of inventing, political fundraising soft absolutely not how did this idea for Rev up come about. So one of my closest friends as Rokon d had been running for congress. And you know, obviously I wanted to help him. I was helping him. On the fundraising side, and a lot of opportunity came up where you know, people had been reaching out to me about what I'd been doing for Obama. And would that be available? What I helped them individually for this racer that race, etc. And it's just one of those things where there's only one of me, and it's flattering there is I don't like to say, no. But I just don't have enough time to say yes to everyone. What's your what's your day job at this point? At that time. I was f-. I I was helping while I I helped with Obama with the reelect, and I was playing what to do next. Yeah. So I was helping RoH from a campaign perspective. But I was getting ready to either join, you know, a tech company out here or start my next thing got it. And so in that period of time figuring out what I wanted to do next. I realized what we had done what we had accomplished for Obama world had been, you know, really unique and really successful. And it was something unique that that I had done and that there could be an opportunity to help many many campaigns. And so that's what I wanted to do. And so we started doing that spoke to the lawyers made sure that we could do the way we wanted to do it because it had never been done before spoke to both sides of the aisle because the only way you could do what I wanted to do is if it was not a partisan play. And even though I'm a democrat. And I'm a well known democrat from the gecko since incorporation we had to treat it like a tech company, which means just like, Google, and Twitter and Facebook and Salesforce, you know, works with anyone out there that wants to buy the software or leverage technology. See we would have to be the same thing, which you know, politically is is a challenge for me, but professionally and personally you have to do I have a fiduciary responsibility. What's best for for the company for investor investors? And that the the product could thrive if it just had more people using it and testing in and Soviet and so rose are for our prototype. Client, then we moved to fifteen clients for the next year. And then we moved to fifty clients after that, and these are clients our campaigns, and or committees or organizations they're trying to raise money that are in the political 2013 now two thousand fourteen twenty four twenty idea came to me in two thousand thirteen but we started building the software in February of two thousand fourteen got it. And so as I said, rose or prototype and that year and now he's not he's been on podcast before. He's now the congressman for Silicon Valley. He is he's he loves coming down here. Good. So let's let's just showed on a little bit more of what this is. So I mean in the old days. I mean, there was kind of you know, there were professional political fundraisers who probably had something that they would call software. What what is Rev up and half? How does it work in? I know it'd be easier on if shown econ or phone computer screens, but like verbally give it a shot. Oh, I can communicate verbally. So so for anyone out there listening imagine, you're someone that you're inspired by candidate. Or you're inspired to help out a nonprofit or someone, you know, reaches out to you from a campaign or from your university that you went to or nonprofit that you're supporting and ropes you into brings you into to be a fundraiser, the initial use case for the software was a as a fundraiser tool for a a volunteer for a bundler as they call them. And if you put yourself in that light is everyone's imagining that you all have jobs, you all do something else for your life. If you're going to do this is not something that you have comfort in its outside of your day job. And so you've committed you've said, yes. I'll help and you're sitting in front of your computer, and you have no idea who you should ask to help. And we all know, many people's everyone knows hundreds of people some of us even know thousands of people. Well, what do you do you have two choices? You can either send out one Email about the opportunity that you're fundraising for to everyone. That's not fundraising that spamming your network and hoping that some people respond, but that's actually what the vast vast vast majority of people do BCC. Hi, I'm trying to raise a million dollars for examples. Can you give twenty seven hundred bucks or twenty seven dollars five dollars? And that's just spamming your network, and whatever comes in you've raised. So in that case, you're a fundraiser in a lot of times most of it, you won't get and it's kind of like a low dollar approach to high-dollar giving. Right. But anyone that's doing? It's an any dollar a dollar approach. The only way that they know how because their time is valuable, and they have no information John to know any better to do any better. They're doing the best that they can with limited information. And that's the whole point the other way of doing it is that you say, you know, what an individual. Ask or an individual Email or an Email to a small group of people that's customized is likely to have a higher yield. But who should I ask I still know the same thousands of people? And so you sit there and you start thinking through your your Rolodex or thinking through your, you know, mental contact lists here. And maybe even you might actually even look through your Lincoln lists and so forth, and you're one by one by one going through this in as you're doing like, this is the most unprofessional inefficient way possible. And you get frustrated, and you push your computer when you procrastinate, and that's simple active procrastination causes at fundraising effort to fail by fifty percent right there and every day that you continue to procrastinate at another five percent to the failure rate until finally eventually like oh my God. There's only six days to the event and I haven't done much. I gotta buckle down and do it. And you start just reaching out to top of mind people that come to people that you think are individually wealthy people. You think individually might be interested in this people that oh, you chits just completely top of mind as you're doing it. You're like ninety five percent of the people I should be reaching out to. I'm not reaching out to. I'm reaching out onto a whole bunch of people that I probably shouldn't be reaching out to and I'm never going to do this again, and it usually fails. So with that in mind, we said that's the problem. No one in business would conduct their work that way, just winging it sending out one Email to every vendor out there and hoping that someone replies or just without any research reaching out to people indiscriminately, we would do research. We would try to handle it in her in a professional efficient manner. We don't do that in fundraising. So what saw what the software does is. We said, it's it's so it's data analytics on the fundraising side, it is not the system of record. It's not the Sierra. So we don't compete with any of the companies out there that take the money through their system. So actually raising the money. It's the way to organize the context of a racing. We're not the links yet at the money's going into. And so there are a bunch of different companies out there of all different sizes. Those are all of our partners. We are very very careful not to to do anything like that. What we do is. We help the fundraiser or. Now, we also help disproportionately even the finance staff the development staff, the advancement office, the tool now has transitioned even more so into a staff driven. We'll talk tools, what are you guys doing it? So now as a bundler if that same analogies now with one click you can upload your g mail your outlook your linked in your contacts your iphone contacts. Any excel spreadsheet CS feeless you have and if you know thousands of people it'll merge purge them, clean them all up single Rolodex. And and then it goes out to thousands of political and charitable databases, and it will bring all that data put it against your contacts. Put it against the profile of the organization that you're raising for and based on that profile of that organization, and all those ten thousand databases will then force rank every single person, you know, high slowest likelihood to be interested in potentially giving. So that point it's like, you know, you have let's let's raising for O'Connor's campaign, and you have someone in Palo Alto. Who is a doctor who's give. Money to Democratic Congress congressional candidates. Sometimes not always maybe they're South Asian, and then you know, you matches up with okay, ro Khanna. He's a new candidate. He's South Asia, it matches up and says, okay. Maybe this person is a, you know, a you should they should be in the seventy fifth percentile for the people you call. And then someone else who you know is only given Republicans for their entire life. But the last six years every single Democrats, suddenly it's an easy ask it's basically a way ordering the thousands of people, you know, into high sch- prioritize your time. Right. Right. So the the part that I'm particularly attracted to is not going back to the same well over and over and over again, and that's a major major problem in political giving is that the same people are getting hit up many times every single day if you can believe this only two percent of the US population gives money to politics Tyler. I thought actually and most of that money is by point. One of one percent. Sure. And so everyone calls the same folks. And everyone really really calls that point one percent. And so yes, the software will certainly have that two percent in there. And certainly will have the point one percent in their annual say have, you know, have they given before. But they haven't given currently have they given less now than they normally give go back and ask for more. Have they given to other things like you? But they don't know you. So maybe if they only knew you they'd wanna give to you. Absolutely. We go, and there's many different types of filters, and and parts of the algorithm that'll boost people up and boost people down of people that have historically given. Joe, absolutely. My passion this to go after the other ninety eight percent introduce it to people that have never been given before. And so the Rokon example, as as I mentioned sure there are some wonderful donors in the tack in the South Asian community that have given to politics, but those those obvious people, and those have been some of his does it'd be like top of mind person, maybe entity MU. Personality m-, you need the software for exactly well. No, you always need some clear. Always always always need to know in what order and how fast, and what's the likelihood, and what's the appropriate ask and all that good stuff again, and you're trying to be respectful here. But the power of it was to go and identify people who had never written. A check is on. No one's list. But maybe because they're a South Asian male Intech living in Silicon Valley. Yeah. Maybe you know, rather than a ninety or eighty or seventy score rather than getting a zero score. Maybe get a forty three score. And you focus your time and energy on people in the sixties and the fifties in the forties people that no one talks to no one reaches out minute. Most people don't even know the exist. But because there's there are hooks respectful hooks of potential interest of tractive -ness of a connection that campaign or that organization or that university might have with that person. Isn't it a better thing to grow the pie and go after people that nobody goes after to and there's a much higher likelihood of them saying yes because there's no competition. For the same dollar. What what into pushback being? I'm sure you've heard before that like part of any human relationship is just like the soft, touch and the the ability to, you know, maybe maybe there's some there's, oh, you know, they don't kind of check any demographic or historical attributes that would indicate this person likely to give and maybe you're just really good friends with them, and you feel like sure, and or or maybe, you know, you saw them last week at the coffee shop, and there's just that human connection that like the software can predict how do you deal with that? I mean, look, you should always preference. People you know, and touch points that are more current and more, you know, accurate. So if you know in in things about people that are outside of software that Trump's anything that any software. So even if it says, it's persons not a giver, and you like you just have a maybe something in your belly. That makes you think this person will give you still hit them up. Right. They're not a giver yet. That's all things. They haven't given yet. That's the part that I find is both the opera. Unity as well as to challenge, and I'd like the opportunity part. So let's not go back on what you're doing. Now, you guys just raised seven million dollars announced last week or a couple ago. Yep. Week you by the time is is Aaron probably couple of weeks ago. This is this. You know, your background is in politics. This came up as a political idea, but you mentioned development offices endowments like just for the grand scheme of things political fundraising the very small amount of fund the fundraising world overall. Correct. So this is a bid to kind of make, you know, the Princeton University development office or a hospital or anybody that's raising money. You're kind of now pitching this as a software for anybody who has to kind of a database to figure out who to call. Exactly. So if you think about giving last year in fundraising in the United States, it went up to across four hundred billion dollars that this country was generous to open up their wallets and gif of that only seven billion in total over two years in the. Cycle goes to politics. So people act like I mean, that's that's always common criticism of campaign. Finance report for reformers who say there's so much money in politics. And I think it's Mitch McConnell. Maybe John banner is this quote about more money being spent on toothpaste, then on politics exactly that that is an unfortunate show. The reason why that is. If he feels the way it is is that so much money is used on broadcast television because it's still exceedingly effective to getting out the message, so everyone sees it. And so they say more money more ads, and you just get over saturated with ads, and the other reason why is that a very very small percent of the population is just getting hit up so much, and they're very very vocal about that as they should be. And so that's why why you're getting that that view so the much larger market by so many orders of magnitude are nonprofits at large, and especially as you mentioned higher, Ed and healthcare as very large components within that. And so that is what we're doing with the south. We've had a very successful couple years coming out with you know, first prototype. Alpha beta coming on a south mode couple years ago, growing we now serve over nearly about three hundred campaigns and committees and so forth, and we'll continue to grow that. Next year will be super exciting given that'll be presidential cycle. And and so many races as. Well there, but we did do the financing to very specifically go into the larger markets. Yeah. And do what we do in data analytics working with the Sierra M's with MS partners. But now go into these larger categories and do exactly what we've done in politics into these larger categories because their they're chomping at the bit for next generation type of tools. He's a pretty Stott not stodgy institutions, but like they had our formal development offices. These are. I mean, is there any is there any party that like that worries about just some of the skills, not translating of the software, not translating? I mean, they're like everyone does it in their own way. They're certainly best practices of how a lot of these organizations do it, and these are very very professional people the larger the organization, the more people, they have and the more structured, they they tend to be and as a result, the more professional. They can be the, you know, the more staff that can have more tools that can have more training, etc. But everyone me there half a million non. Profits. Everyone's raising. I just depends on how much you know, how much resources you have at your at your disposal. And so we just want to be a tool to complement what they're currently using a lot of these guys are using whether it be razor's edge of black Bod, or they're working with Salesforce and probably a hundred other companies out. There was a system of record to be able to help them on the data analytic side for both staff as well as volunteers to have the same level of effect in those verticals as I'm honored to say that we've had success this last few years. I mean, we've we've been just blessed with all the awards in the industry that we've won we won best fundraising technology most innovative product of the year two years row best startup s analytics, we we deployed our mobile app last year, we won the award for best mobile app. And so what we're doing as a data analytics company has not been done before in these three verticals and what I'm super proud of where I've lift last two decades is to be Silicon Valley company bringing Silicon Valley tech to these three. Articles that have historically not had the opportunity to benefit from that. At least from a data analytics perspective cut. It weren't take another quick break. We'll be back after this with Steve spinner, the CEO of Rev up, and we'll talk a little bit more of a politics. Thanks teddy. Today's show is brought to you. By Ocoee, pop culture is full of evil robots program to take over the world. And the real world is full of air. 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Decode that's A N K I dot com slash Rico, decode enter the promo code Rico decode for a ten percent discount. Hi, this is Karen Swisher host of Rico decode I want to jump from the red chair to the red circle for a minute and talk to you about a new podcast from our friends at Ted in their new podcast. Ted interview head curator, Chris Anderson sits down with some of your favorite Ted speakers to take a deeper dive into their big ideas, you'll hear from people like bail project CEO, Robin Steinberg discussing how she's disrupting the cruelty of America's cash bail system and Islam scholar Dahlia mega head on the actual beliefs of Muslims around the world. You can find the Ted interview on apple podcasts or wherever you listen back to you teddy. We're back here with Steve spinner, the CEO of Rev up. So this is software that your back yard, or you know, it's well and on the internet, you're democrat. But this the software where you're definitely kind of using their some prominent Republican clients out there, how do you kind of balance, you know, I guess limit to describe how much did you politically personally these days? Yeah, I've had to cut back in many. Cases, which is very very hard for me on a personal level because that's my Genesis and all this. But like, for instance, you know, we'll be very involved in in the presidential races next year. And I won't as an individual be able to participate because how can I be personally helping one when I'm working with five ten fifteen twenty people that may or may not be running. Sure. So on a personal level. I've had to do some cutting back. I mean, I still help this candidate over here this candidate over there, obviously are so connersville helping RoH there's this guy Shri Kulkarni in in Houston, Texas, who is a very very exciting candidate. That is basically the row equivalent on the foreign policy side, he's fourteen years State Department, and in a bunch of different very very challenging environments placements. He's been over the years. He speaks six languages fluently. Very exciting candidate there that's running in a Houston district. And so I've been helping them as well. So I still help. Number candy's here there, but where I really really dug in it was national finance committee, and chairman of this or co chairman of that and so forth. I probably won't be able to do give this fancy titles. But how can you do that when you were helping them from a professional purposes, and and that's the whole point which is that's how I can work with Republicans as well as Democrats. That's how I can work with multiple Democrats in the same race. You know, here we are. I'll be kicking all higher. You know? They can always the software. Right. I mean here we are in the state of California, and you know, on the DEM side there they'll be racist where there were four five six candidates in the same race for a congressional district that we just experienced for the last year and a half year and in June. You know, most of those all but one or two will lose, but we were able to help with multiples of them because you know, we're we're just a tech company. So if you pick exclusives, then you're trick trying to pick horses. You're not really tech company whatsoever. Part of the advocacy apparatus. Yeah. And that's just you. You can't build a trying to be like a Google Facebook software platform that folks can use or not use. And that's an you'd nets independent though. From like, hi, Steve spinner. I wasn't Obama finance. Exactly, exactly. And so that's the only way that people trust you that you're going to treat them the same as the other people because you treat everyone the same. And we try our best from a customer service partner success perspective to treat everyone exactly the same. And you know, I mean people that know that we have multiple clients in the same sector. It's never been an issue in four years people that know that we sometimes have clients on the opposite side of the aisle. It's never been an issue in four years where I take that as a one of the things I'm honestly most proud of is because I'm a proud DEM. And I'm a card carrying scar ridden them that I can meet with Republicans. I mean, where did I meet Utada? You originally I'm at Romney e to conference exact was covering was CNN. So what is the talk? Talk about how fundraising has changed a little bit over over time. You know, you start in two thousand five is pre citizens. United one of the keys prem- court decisions that create super PACS. And I think there's been a lot of discussion in the media and people in my industry used to cover political money about has Trump changed the game at all with fundraising. I'm just curious if someone's raising, you know, we're coming up on twenty twenty cycle is fundraising different than it was a decade ago. It's much larger. I mean, it's much larger and it's much more successful online than it's been every four years. You get this new bar that across is you didn't think it can get any more successful than that. And of course for years later. It's twice as much as it was before. So. Yeah. So it continues to evolve there's still a long long ways to go. There is a certain amount of marrying of you know, spray and pray blind fundraising just increase the size of the list. And you don't care about discerns online, low yeller, you know, you're on the Email list. And and that's a whole other industry. It's not your industry. It's not me at all. And I can't stand it. But because it's the opposite of of the respect part that I talk about how many hundreds of Email fundraising emails. Do we all get every day for ninety nine point of them that that I can't stand? But they also have awesome screaming headline like, you know, the country is in crisis. Well, that's actually one of the things that's helped, you know, worse in the narrative in politics, and it's on both sides. Pox on everyone. You know, the the big changes that have happened, and there are many people that would that would say this. I'm not the only one is the Democrats historically always had a huge huge advantage with small dollar online donating and that started with Howard Dean in two thousand four and it's only picked up ever since for the first time ever in the last couple of years, the Republicans with Donald Trump was able to do a certain amount of that. And do it quite effectively in two thousand fifteen especially two thousand sixteen and that's persisted through this cycle through the fundraising that they've done on the RNC side, but outside of that one anomaly there on the Republican side, there's still a huge difference huge competitive advantage of small dollar on the democrat side than than on the Republican side. The other thing is that Democrats have act blue which really is a portal, which you want to strap it. Yeah. No. I mean, it is. It's just it's a way to be able to easily make multiple donations over time stores. All your information makes recommendations and silver. And it's it's just been very very successful for Democrats. And you know, they have a company called N G P van which is one of our partners. That's also, you know, very very good at being the system of record. And so the technology has always been historically an advantage on the DEM side, especially as as it deals with small dollars on the big dollars, and especially on the soft money dollars. Republicans have or have historically always had a lead on that. Especially of obviously ever since citizens United. Let's just explain it for folks, I mean, so basically the way that most lots of campaign dollars were raised today. An old only way they're really raised. Precepts? United was the federal limit for how much candidate can how much donors can give to a campaign or committee an afternoon's United created the creation of super PACS pools a cash where people can cut checks unlimited size. And that's kind of what a lot of the headline grabbing stories are Peter Thiel getting a million. The club for growth or shown adults getting twenty five million dollars to you know, kind of a party sponsored Senate superpac. That's kind of what people think of when they're like when they read a campaign finance story. But then there's also just kind of I mean, twenty seventy dollars is not nothing, obviously. But it's not five twenty five from Sean Nelson. Right. So you have the soup wreck where you can write unlimited, and it's disclosed correct? There's also right unlimited and it's still not disclosed. And that's what they call dark money. Thankfully, that's decreased. But that's still that's still something. I'm very very uncomfortable with and, you know, many many people are very very uncomfortable democrat houses a lack of disclosure, right? I mean, there are some Democrats that were more more and more comfortable at this is kind of a pit is by Charles and David coke who created a large network organizations that are five and four so their tactics biggest sort of tech tax exemptions an exchange for being theoretically, non advocacy organizations. But I, but the thing is I I'm. Always very protective and defensive of donors when they give hard money up to the max. And when I say that protected meaning that they're allowed to do it. And if they wanna do at once that's great if they want to do it, you know, twenty five hundred times they should be allowed to do that. And they shouldn't be hit for donating. I have a problem when donors get hit because they support when they criticize all public information public information. They're required to, but you know, they're doing what they're allowed to do because they're inspired to do that. There's something about that candidate that they like a lot, and they can't necessarily give time they can't actually travel for them. But they can write, you know, two hundred fifty dollars. They can write maybe twenty seven hundred dollars. They shouldn't become part of an attack ad and some people do that to the citizens on both sides. Right. I mean, there are well, no, it's usually on the Republican side to Democrats, historically, but but where it's really gotten bad is on the on the the larger checks, the soft money where you now those guys are writing the large checks they're getting head, and you know, in many cases. They deserve to get hit for that. I like to protect up to the max, the twenty seven hundred and then beyond that, it's discretion. Well, Vivey the, you know, there's this to change with Harry Reid countries. Charles and David Koch. For instance, not used to be household names. They're obviously extremely wealthy. But just became a big deal when Harry Reid who kind of went out there and attacked the coke string twenty twelve campaign by name. I think on the Senate floor, you know, I mean that's on the soft money on the on the big seven eight nine sure figures, I'm always very very protective of you know, when expressing their democratic right twenty seven hundred bucks or two hundred fifty I saw I actually saw a demo on them hit piece last week. It's right here in the bay area to Democrats and assembly race. And I saw someone doing an online posting their where they just were hitting people writing to injure fifty or five hundred thousand dollars because they were supporting the other candidate that really kind of upsets me. Yeah. I think it's two hundred two hundred dollars, right? FBI a bio beyond that. When you start getting named and campaign-finance I'd love to hundred yet. Right. You have to just go out there you. Yeah. If you give more in two hundred dollars, you will be final Bobo people like me, and I guess people like Steven and other folks as well Trump. I mean, do you. I mean, you know, this is the most Republican side there's argument to me I wrote a lot of stories about kind of Trump's fundraising woes during two thousand sixteen. There was a lot of Republican donors like the folks that the Romney summit we were just talking about who felt you know, Trump is running against the system drain the swamp. And I think it's kind of led to at least some budding conventional wisdom that political fundraising doesn't matter anymore. Trump can just you know, cog, the airwaves, the whole point of raising money presumably to buy media attention to what extent do you think like he has actually kind of change how political fundraising could be done at least. I mean, you know, this is a much longer conversation than the last few minutes of this. I mean, he's he's definitely changed some aspects of it. Absolutely. But I do not believe that in the next cycle for the reelect. If he is the candidate on the Republican side that the media will do in that race, even as a sitting president what they did in the last one because it was you know, it was comedy coverage. Yeah. Just it was Trump twenty four hours a day on all networks, not just the on the FOX's. But you know, he was also on MSNBC all the time. And as a sitting president there even now starting to cut back. There's been a lot of news about that over the last month month and a half that one of the reasons why I always president live anymore. Well, one of the reasons why the presence going out so much is because you know, a lot of his comments or not getting covered as much and and the rallies, even those are not getting covered as much and so he's trying to say things that are that are newsworthy or he's trying to make the news worthy to force him to get coverage. Like what he did last night in Montana because people are trying to cut back on that. Because he realized that it is an unfair advantage. I mean, he he won. Disproportionately whether many reasons why the Trump won last cycle. But one of them is that he just had so much earned media that he didn't have to pay a penny for and ten times more than his closest competitor in one hundred times more than some of his other competitors. You don't feel you feel like that was a moment in time that Trump was because he was maybe there was a media fascination with him. And you know, he obviously also self-funded somewhat. You know, he's self-funded is Republican primaries almost entirely he he gave some money not as much as he promised to give during the general to his campaign. But I mean at least in the primary, right? I mean, he was outspent. And you know, that was the whole, you know, he loves to make fun of Jeb Bush rights. That's how he was able to make up for the shortfalls. Right. You know, he did fund himself to the level that he needed to get in the game and have a team that he needed, but he was able to more than make up for it with his comments that caused him to get all this extra median, you know, he starts out as having higher name ID than almost anyone else. On the stage. And so when you start out just by your name ID from TV from the apprentice being able to have fifteen seventeen eighteen percent support and name ID of thirty five forty five. Maybe even up to sixty percent name. I d how is anyone else supposed to be able to compete? As it is not necessarily that consequential for kind of the way that your business, a political fundraising has done. No, not from me. You still have to fund your campaigns th the part that actually gets me excited from a Reva perspective is historically money is the number one. And the only one that matters in can you do you make a decision to run for office or not can I raise the money? And if you believe you can raise the money, then you raise your hand and you run for office. I actually hate that. I believe that money should not be the reason why you decide to run for office. It should just be part of the of the execution plan. You should run for office. Because you think you can do a better job that you can help people and you can move in a positive direction, and what Rev up can do in politics. What Reva can especially due for nonprofits? And universities is lower the bar for you to more easily be able to raise the amount of money you need if you're Kim. To run a competitive race, you agree in general with candidate you that money is necessary amount sufficient for competitiveness. Yes. Idea that only to have the same amount. You don't you? Absolutely. Don't need to have minimum threshold for there's need to have you know. Nine hundred thirty million dollars in a month to to be a competitive candidate. And he might lose. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Or you know, you can have racist where you're raising twenty eight million dollars. And you lose like crazy to someone who you've raised three or four times more money. You can have other races where you raise, you know, one million dollars, and it's one fourth the amount of money as the other person and you win handily. Yup. So but you have to raise a certain amount to get in the game. You have to raise to be able to have a team and to be able to get your message out. And there are other things that matter. Absolutely. That's why it's called a campaign. There are many facets of it. But money gets you in the game. And I that's what Reva is focused on in politics is to lower the bar to make it easier for you to raise the minimum that you need to to be able to run a competitive race. And the same thing fulfil the entire mission and charter for a nonprofit and a in a university. Right. Doesn't mean you're win. But at least you can kind of play the game. Exactly. Steve fascinating conversation. Thanks for coming on the show. And thanks to all of you for listening. You can find more of Rico decode apple podcasts. Spotify Google podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. And please tell friend about the show you can follow me on Twitter at teddy Shleifer. And now that you've done with this go check out other podcasts Rico in media and pit you can find those shows where every found this one. Thanks for listening to this episode of Rico decode and thanks to our editor. Joe Robbie our producer. Eric johnson. Carol switch will be back here on Monday. Tune in men. Today's show is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Which is the presenting sponsor of Rico decode, you know. It's not smart provoking the SEC on Twitter. Oh e lawn, but you know, what is smart using ZipRecruiter to hire for your business. Ziprecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you it finds them for you their powerful. Technology scans thousands of resumes to identify people with the right, skills education and experience for your job. And actively invites them to apply. So you get qualified candidates fast. Ziprecruiter spotlights, the top candidates for your job. So you never miss out on a great match. That's why ZipRecruiter is rated number one by employers in the US based on trust pilot rating of hiring sites with over a thousand reviews. Now, our listeners can try it for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash decode. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash decode. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire.
Pirate Raid on the Ganj-i-Sawai / Last captive thylacine died - September 7
"Today's episode is brought to you by oxy clean. So I went on a backpacking trip that other weekend as per usual I ended up with a bunch of smelly close at the end of it but I used oxy clean odor blasters on the load of laundry before I did it. It was super easy and I came out with some super fresh smelling clothes you've got. To try oxy clean odor blasters for yourself to work your magic with oxy clean go to oxy dot com slash try me an order of free sample. That's Aussie. CLEAN DOT com slash T. R. Y. M. E. for a free odor blaster sample while supplies. Last extending x by is more than just fast. It's Internet that gives you peace of mind security because if it's connected. It's protected. Yeah. Even your robot vacuum. Can Your Internet do that? Learn more dot com slash X. Y.. Hello everyone. It's Eve's checking in here to let you know that you're going to be hearing two different events in history in this episode one for me and went from Tracy Wilson, they're both good if I do say so myself on with the show. Welcome to this day in history class from how stuff works dot Com and from the desk of stuff you missed in history class. It's the show where we explore the past one data time with a quick look at what happened today in. History. Hello and welcome to the podcast I'm Tracy Wilson, and it's September seventh on this day in sixteen ninety, five pirate Henry every pulled off one of the most profitable raids and pirate history, which also launched a massive international incident. Every sailed aboard a ship called the fancy which had previously been the Charles the second before he commandeered it from a Spanish port in sixteen ninety four from that he and his newly piratical crew of course for Madagascar. They were joining up with a route called the pirate round, which was really popular among English pirates in the sixteen ninety s this sailing route went from the Caribbean around the Cape of Good Hope up to Madagascar, and then into the Indian Ocean, it was off the coast of Madagascar that every joined up with a whole collection of other pirates were hoping to attack a fleet of ships belonging to the Mughal empire. The empire ruled parts of the Indian subcontinent from the early sixteenth century into the mid. Eighteenth Century and sixteen, Ninety Five. It's territory covered most of what's now India Pakistan Bangladesh Bhutan, and Nepal this fleet belonging to the Mughal empire was huge twenty, five ships including escort vessels. Some of the passengers were the emperor's own family members returning from a pilgrimage to Mecca the first ship that every and the other pirates attacked was called. The faith Mohammadi was an escort ship that was part of the rearguard. They're real prize though was the Ganges the why which is sometimes ankles is the gun sway. They spotted this ship on September seven and this ship in addition to being large was owned by emperor earnings himself. At least one of the emperor's family members was on board the ship was huge. It was exceptionally well armed. The pirates were only able to take it because when the battle started a piece of weaponry exploded and started a fire, the behavior of these pirates once they took over, the Ganges was really horrible. They completely brutalized the people on board in their search for treasure they came away with a huge haul of gold silver and jewels. But when the Ganges the why reached the Mughal. Empire the emperor, and the rest of the people were outraged riots spread through the city of Sirte. which was the port that the ship came into they targeted the British east India company offices. They're British officials started writing back to London to report what had happened. This sparked a huge international manhunt for every and his pirate crew. The British east India company could not afford any problems in their relationship with the Mughal empire or the emperor himself. A few of every crew were captured but every was not those who were captured were put on trial two times to try to bring a conviction that would satisfy the Mughal emperor. There were two trials because much to the surprise of all the authorities involved. The British people were really excited about pirates by the time the trial even happened there was already a really popular ballad about Henry. Every was very high spirited and adventurous than it did not make him sound like a bad guy at all. So, after everyone was acquitted in the first trial, they had to try them again this time on charges of mutiny instead of piracy. They were found guilty of mutiny and hanged. The British government had to pay reparations to the Mughal empire but every himself was never captured. It's more likely though that he died in poverty than that he went on to live like a king on his pirate wealth. You can learn more about this than the May Ninth Twenty Eighteen episode of Steffi missed in history class and you can subscribe to this day in history class on apple podcasts, Google podcasts, and wherever else you get your podcasts. Thanks also Shari Harrison for audio work on this podcast you can tune in tomorrow for a Labor strike that lasted for five years. I like a bed. That's really firm I'm something a little softer rest. Easy to sleep number three, sixty smart bet you can both the just you covered with your sleep number setting really fall asleep faster. Yes. By gently warming your feet okay. Can help keep us asleep it senses your movements automatically adjust to keep you effortlessly comfortable sleepnumber proven quality sleep is life changing sleep. It's our biggest sale of the year. All beds are on sale save fifty percent on the sleep number three, sixty linnet addition smart that only for a limited time to learn more, go to sleepnumber dot. com. Hey Andy if you don't know me, it's probably because I'm not famous but I did start a men's grooming company called. Harry's the idea for Harry's came out of a frustrating experience. I had buying razor blades. Most brands were overpriced over designed an out of touch at Harry's our is simple. Here's our secret. We make sharp durable blades and sell them at honest prices for as low as two dollars each we care about quality so much that we do some crazy things like a world class German blade factory. Obsessing over every detail means we're confident and offering one hundred percent quality guarantee. Millions of guys have already made the switch to Harry's. So thank you if you're one of them and if you're not, we hope you give us a try with the special offer get a Harry starter set with a five. Blade. Razor Waited Handle Shave Gel and a travel cover offered just three bucks plus free shipping. Just go to Harrys DOT COM and enter four, four, four, four at checkout that's Harrys dot com code four, four, four. Enjoy. The Hi, I'm Eve. And welcome to this day in history class. A show that covers a little bit more about history every day. The day was September seventeenth nineteen, thirty six. The last dial scene also known as the Tasmanian Tiger died at the. Hobart Zoo and Tasmania. In nineteen eighty-six after note, seen have been spotted for fifty years the animal was declared extinct. The thylacine scientific name Thilo CENA's Sil- Steph list was a large carnivorous. Marsupial. It's for short and Yellowish Brown or Gray, and it had dark stripes across its back from its sodas odors to its tail. It's had it looks like a dog or wolf and its ears were small and females had a pouch for carrying their young. The. dialer scene was mainly nocturnal. It once lived all over Australia from New Guinea to Tasmania. But in recent times, it was found only in Tasmania. The first recorded killing Thilo seen by Europeans happened in eighteen o five after it was killed the Lieutenant Governor of Tasmania William Paterson Senate description of the animal to the Sydney Gazette. He wrote, it is very evident. This species is destructive and lives entirely on animal food on dissection his stomach was filled with a quantity of kangaroo. This deprecating take of Thilo scenes was also evident in later European Communications Tasmania's Assistant Surveyor George. prideaux Harris wrote that the animal had a savage and malicious appearance and that it appeared in active in stupid. Thilo scenes were also considered a threat to sheep though they were still quote cowardly and by no means formidable to man as later assistant surveyor. George William. Evans. Put It in eighteen twenty, two book. Since the thylacine was viewed as destructive to flocks of sheep, it was hunted and people offered rewards for killing the animal. But the rhetoric around the Dallas Scene Savagery was just myth. Minister John. West of Launceston wrote in eighteen fifty, the thylacine kills. But confines its attack to one at a time and is therefore by no means as destructive to a flock as the domestic dog become wild or as Dingo of Australia, which both commit havoc in a single night. Still reports exaggerated the abundance of tyler scenes, how many sheep they killed and how many bounties were paid to. Kill. Them. By were being blamed for the attacks of wild dogs who are management rural depressions and other things that affected agricultural production. Though some people spoke up against stylus seeing killings, the animal continued to get that press and was the subject of propaganda. The government even offered a bounty of one pound for every adult Silas seen killed and ended up sponsoring the killing of two thousand, one, hundred, eighty, four dollars scenes. By the beginning of the twentieth century the number of galaxies killed and bounties offered decreased throughout the beginning of the century. The animal became rarer as it faced competition from wild dogs, the destruction of its habitat and disease in addition to hunting. The last known wild dialer scene was shot in one, thousand, nine hundred. The last captive dialer seen named Benjamin after its death was held at the Hobart Zoo. It died on September seventh nineteen, thirty six probably from neglect. The Dallas scene was reportedly locked out of its shelter and could have died from the cold. The July before Benjamin. Died Tasmania had listed the thylacine as a protected species. The scene was listed as an endangered species until it was declared extinct by the International Union for Conservation of nature, in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, two, and the Tasmanian government in Nineteen eighty-six. In Nineteen Ninety six Australia declared September seventh national threatened Species Day. I'm Jeff Jeffcoat and hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday. You can follow us on twitter instagram and facebook at t the I. H C podcast. We'll see you tomorrow. For more podcasts from iheartradio visit, the iheartradio APP apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows, and now another addition of obvious news from GEICO. A. Study says that soft talkers do not make great radio personalities. We asked local Librarian Steve Sage about this and here's what he said. I don't. Think I make the Harry captivating radio. Also, an obvious news gyco makes it easy to save money and easy to manage policy with the GEICO. APP. So switching is a really smart decision how to Steve Feel about this little gyco APP I use it all the time that's obvious news from GEICO. Hi I'm David. And I'm Steve Schmidt we're the host of a new podcast called battleground in it. We'll try and answer the three questions that are essential to understanding American elections in the core battleground states who are the campaigns targeting, how are they targeting them, and why in two, thousand, eight Iran Senator McCain's campaign for President David managed. Senator Obama's we understand elections as well as anyone else in America better than almost any, and we've seen enough election snow. This one is far from over trump does better in battleground states than in the rest of the country plus the pandemic is an unprecedented wildcard. Whole systematically underestimate trump support and I guarantee you. They'll have a few October surprises up his sleeve in battleground. We'll go state by state and give you in depth reporting on the trump and Biden strategies today you understand what they're doing and why they're doing battleground is a podcast from the region listen battleground starting on September fourteenth on the IHEART radio, APP apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.
President Obama Speaks
"At American Public University we believe that higher education can unlock higher purpose. So we offer two hundred modern programs for those who want to make a difference and we believe education must adapt to students needs. That's why we've made it accessible through online classes and flexible with monthly program starts American Public University Within reach without limits learn more at American public, you dot com. Hi David Bluff and I'm Steve. Schmidt? hosa battleground a new podcast from the recount it two, thousand, eight Iran Senator John, McCain's campaign for president. David Manage Senator Obama's in battleground. We're going state by state and giving you indepth reporting on the trump and Biden strategies so that you understand what they're doing and more importantly. Why they're doing it. Listen battleground on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcast. All right are forever President Barack Obama was on the shade room. I know you're like, what's right? Yeah but but take a listen hey roommates Barack Obama here. Yes. Coming to you from the Shade Room. As you know, the election is coming up and I've got just one word for you vote actually I've got to vote early right now from the white. House. On down folks are working to keep people from voting especially communities of color. That's because there's a lot at stake in this election I just. Are Pandemic response or racial justice, but our democracy itself. So it's more important than ever to make your voice heard we can't leave anything to chance. Just go to I will vote not com input your state, make your plan to vote early and tell your friends and family to do the same because now is the time to fight for what we believe it. Let's go out and win this thing. Thanks everybody. Him. Now. That's the president. ABC I. You have to miss the fact that he was presidential. Yes. This guy that we have now. Ridiculous Is Ridiculous that comment he made by about don't use the word smart with me. Maybe you're not. You're not smart man does a difference between smart and treacherous. Does a difference because you treacherous doesn't make your smart person. Because of because of you conniving doesn't make you a smart hearse. He's he's very. Look man he said nothing that made me believe anything. He said he just one lie lie after the next and when it was time to prove a point, why did your son Hunter take three hundred and what does that have to do with the damn? Election Man. Yeah. Not. Yeah. He was out of order for that show and he doesn't even understand climate control. He doesn't even know what that is. Exists not on. Your smart, but the biggest word us all night was very. Were Very. By, a lot of words. I just saw a mean that says Samuel Jackson go moderate the Knicks. Yes. It's going. To. Be. Black. That would be funny. You know. Man If we don't get this job done, there are only thirty four days left until the November third election we want you to get registered. We just learned recently that Mike. Tyson, this'll be his first time voting in any election. I. Think we talked dog one time he said this is going to be his first time voting in any election I mean. So don't be embarrassed if you haven't voted before, now's the time to vote. It's your civic duty do at thirty four days until November third we want you to go to vote dot org vote dot org get registered to vote in order to vote you gotta get registered yes Tommy Call Steeds Yes let man Hamas W, my house, the third. Told me that I'm going to vote. So, excited crowd. EXCITED AGAIN Last go together to do this I wanna go with you on your first half what what prompted him to say that? I didn't think he'd been. He's really he growing up first and foremost Mitchell. He's watching what's going on I think. He and his friends are like we've got to do some. So I'm excited I'm excited. Need Yeah Yeah do Ya if you're young just turning eighteen, you know you can vote just turning eighteen. You have a right to vote at eighteen. So go ahead vote vote dot org. It only takes a couple of minutes and You know make your voice heard make your vote count. Okay and this general election you know please vote dot. Org. Dot Org. Coming up. Lot of trending stories a lot of stuff on in the world. We want you to be. You know keenly aware of everything that's going on but mostly voting right now. Okay Dot. Org. We'll be back at twenty minutes after the hour. Right after this you're listening to. Morning Show. At American Public University we believe higher education is not one-size-fits-all. That's why we offer two hundred modern programs that build on your knowledge and fit your schedule because we believe universities should adapt to the needs of students not the other way around American public university within reach without limits. Online classes start every month learn more at American public you dot com. At American, Public University, we believe quality education must be more affordable. That's why as a leader in online higher education, we focus on minimizing costs and maximizing return on learner investment and we believe higher education must be more accessible. So our online programs start every month American public university within reach without limits learn more at American public you, Dot Com.