20 Episode results for "Senator Howard"

Schiff: Why wouldn't GOP senators want to hear from John Bolton?

MSNBC Rachel Maddow (audio)

45:50 min | 1 year ago

Schiff: Why wouldn't GOP senators want to hear from John Bolton?

"The show we had nine stern on. MSNBC in nineteen sixty. Eight when Richard Nixon ran against Democratic incumbent Vice President Hubert Humphrey and beat him and the Nixon. Agnew ticket ascended to the White House for the first time Nixon's campaign chairman in that election was a a man named John Mitchell. A somewhat unusual move after he was sworn in as the thirty-seven president of the United States Nixon then named and his campaign manager John Mitchell to be the next attorney general. That's not a natural evolution in terms of political jobs going from campaign chairman to Attorney General But Nixon went ahead and did it and install John Mitchell at the top of the US Justice Department which turned out to be one of Nixon's many many disastrous early decisions as president. John Mitchell of course would end up being up to his neck in the Watergate scandal specifically in the cover up as well alternate John. Mitchell would go down in history as the first. US Attorney General to ever be convicted of multiple felonies and imprisoned but at the height of the Watergate scandal at the height of the inquiry. The Nixon administration must've thought that John Nixon Mitchell actually gave them kind of ace in the hole when it came to the Watergate investigation because before he ever learned his service Nixon's attorney general before he ever served as Nixon's campaign chairman. John Mitchell had become friends with this this man this is Howard Baker Republicans we have Howard Baker Howard Baker Republican senator from Tennessee And when the Senate formed it's special committee to investigate the Watergate Scandal Howard Baker was appointed to be the top Republican on that committee. How how handy right now handy for the Nixon administration that the top Republican on the committee investigating Watergate? Was this close friend of John Mitchell. Right campaign chairman during sixty eight had been a linchpin in the whole scheme and then the whole cover up was then serving attorney general right I mean having Howard Baker be the top Republican on the Watergate inquiry. It wasn't quite like having a guy on the inside for the Nixon administration but it was clubs and worse is that Howard Baker at the outset really considered himself to be the Nixon administration's guy there inside guy in in the Senate Watergate Investigation Senator Baker sort of considered himself to be their ace in the hole he was delighted to be named the committee specific specifically because he thought he could help Nixon out. He later admitted that he fully intended at the outset to use his prime position on that committee basically to get Nixon cleared because coming into it Howard Baker thought the whole Watergate scandal was just a scam. It was just put up job by the Democrats. He was glad to be there. As part of the investigation is is the top Republican in the investigation. Basically so he could make sure that Nixon's interests were taken care of against those dastardly Democrats and even worse than that got Senator Howard Baker let Nixon know that it's interesting. It was never recorded in the White House. Diaries and schedules and notes about who. The president was meeting with that day. But on February twenty second nineteen seventy-three Howard Baker secretly went up to the White House and took a meeting with Richard Nixon specifically tell him that the president should be reassured that he had an ally on the Senate Watergate Committee that the top Republican on that committee comedy He Howard Baker was essentially team Nixon and Nixon of course delighted to hear that and there is a tape of the interaction. It's one of those Nixon White House tapes kind of two garbled to hear. This is the kind of sounds like a coin operated version of space invaders. Here's being played inside a washing machine. But it is Senator Howard Baker and Richard Nixon on that tape Nixon at one point on the tape can be heard saying and if it does get rough you may have to turn and get away from this. You were going to have to get away from this. That's President Nixon essentially coaching the top Republican on the Senate Watergate incre- agree Howard Baker that Baker's going to have to figure out a way to shut the Watergate investigation down if it goes in a way that's to adverse to Nixon at any point all right so this a secret meeting at the White House Top Republican on the committee and the President WHO's under investigation. That's bad right in terms of this idea that this was going to be an impartial openminded. You just seeking the facts inquiry. Mayors the top Republican on that inquiry later admitting that he considered himself to be secretly in cahoots with President Nixon from the outset and he was intending to steer the thing as much as he could to protect Nixon's interests except as Howard Baker would later. Explain things veered off for him in an unexpected direction. Notwithstanding that initial the attitude that he had toward the Watergate scandal the initial way that he saw his own role as a Nixon loyalist Republican on that committee. Things didn't work out that way because at that secret meeting at the White House were Howard. Baker went up there to tell president. Nixon hey listen. Don't put this this on your schedule. Let's just meet off the books I just want to assure you. I'm GonNa Take Care of you on this committee when he went up to the White House to go meet with Nixon in that meeting something happened. That changed Howard Bakers on course when it came to Watergate. Something happened about meeting that. In fact change the course of American history. Watch this When the Committee was constituted I felt well? You know it's not gonna about device just just democratic effort to embarrass him but the election's over and That's what I thought and indeed I called President Action on the telephone. I said Mr Mr President. I am the senior Republican on this committee and I would like to come down and talk to you and he said of course. I did the next day I remember and he was in his his office. said the old eob the old executive office building across the street from the Oval Office Edward. I walked in. I said something like Mr President. macedon remember this comedian needed. I want to protect your rights. I'm your friend and I'm the senior pub. He said I thank you and we chatted for a few minutes and then I said this I guess yes. It was important point in my life because then I said That I do hope my friend John Mitchell have any problems and mix. It said well Howard he may at a light bulb went off in my head and I decided you know Baker. You don't know as much about the situation as you think queued. And you'd better put your head down and charge into this thing and let the facts fall where they will. That was not offered. When you find a single moment hold a defining moment when you make a decision of that magnitude but that was such a moment and I decided that notwithstanding personal friendship with Dixon that he had campaigned for me and my racist for the Senate that he was a Republican president? I was a cedar notwithstanding all of that this was a very serious matter that I know much about it. I'd better better find out and that's what I decided to do that. And I hope it does not something to me to say that but I think we did a pretty good job with it. Hope it doesn't sound vain one of me to say it but I think we did a pretty good job with it. We all know how it worked out. Terms of that investigation right that was Senator Howard Baker speaking more than thirty years after after Watergate in an interview looking back at two thousand five talking about that defining moment when he realized that his preconceptions about Watergate his hope and his expectation his old friend John Mitchell wasn't implicated in this scandal his sort of partisan self-assurance about the president's innocence and the scandal handle being some democratic invention. This moment when he realized you know what. Maybe I'm wrong about all of that. And so he decided to drop his preconceived Steve Notions and his plans to use the inquiry to try to protect the president and instead he decided in that moment he said like a light bulb went off. He decided in that moment that he would actually be humble about it that he would stop assuming that he knew everything there was to know about this and instead he would try to find out the facts and follow them wherever they would leave. The central question at this point is simply put. What did the president know? No and when did he know it. That's the same Howard. Baker has famous crystallizing question from the Watergate inquiry. What did the president know? And when did he know it you know. Even at the time he asked that in the Watergate trial a Watergate investigation Howard Baker didn't know the answer. He didn't know at that point when he asked that question. What Nixon when Nixon knew it at that point in the investigation Howard Baker was still hoping that Nixon would be shown to be out of loop that the facts would prove that Nixon was unaware of what was going on in this scandal but in fact he agreed to follow the evidence as it came to light and Howard Baker the rest of the Watergate Committee Republicans and Democrats would go on to discover that there was important new evidence? They needed to look at that. Shed light on the president's direct involvement involvement in the scandal including the tapes that were made at the White House and despite all of his preconceptions which he later copped to his preconceptions is prejudices his intentions coming into it. Howard Baker followed the facts and ended up joining with the Democratic leadership? The Watergate Committee to demand that the White House tapes be handed over and in so doing the Watergate inquiry produced evidence of the president's guilt beyond any reasonable doubt and that is why Richard Nixon resigned the presidency rather than be forced out of office by a certain bipartisan vote in the US Senate Baker. You don't know as much about the situation issue as you think you do and you better just put your head in charge into this saying. Let the facts fall where they will the lesson of Howard Baker from the Watergate scandal. I think is is often told as a story about sort of nonpartisan country first bravery but but whenever Baker himself described it though when he looked back on it decades after the fact he told the moral of the story in a way that was. I guess it was a little more subtle than that. I mean the way Howard Baker described himself was that there was this crucial inflection. Point in Watergate. At this moment when he decided he'd better take this inquiry seriously he better follow the facts that was when he realized he didn't actually know the whole story he couldn't confidently predict what was going to happen next. Things might not end up the way he and all his colleagues had predicted they would go. That was the inflection moment when he realized it was important to to be real about whether or not he really knew what was going on when he realized it was important to be humble about the fact that they were parts of this he did not know that was the the inflection point that when the light bulb went off impeachments of US presidents are not like UNICORNS. That's right they're real but they are rare and odd enough that we really don't know what's likely to happen next in anyone impeachment it was definitely ensure with Watergate. It was true with Clinton and impeachment. I think we know enough of the history to say. It was probably true with the Johnson one as well but it is certainly true with this one. I mean tonight. The Wall Street Journal. I report that the Republican leader in the Senate Mitch. McConnell says he doesn't have enough votes to block the introduction of witness testimony and other evidence from the President Senate impeachment trial they need fifty one republicans to vote no to vote against hearing witnesses and introducing New Evidence Wall Street Journal. Was I report. That they don't have those fifty one votes since then that reporting has been matched by the Washington Post and the New York Times all of these reports are citing McConnell's comments to his fellow Republican senators a closed-door meeting. That happened today. After the president's defense counsel dramatically cut short their presentation the president side of the case they ended their arguments to the Senate with more than fourteen of their allotted twenty four hours left unused at but now getting these these reports about whether or not McConnell has the votes or not about introducing witnesses and bringing in new evidence. These reports are source is to multiple sources describing something that happened behind closed doors. NBC News has sort of contrary reporting tonight suggesting that while Senator McConnell doesn't have those votes now Republicans think they might yet get them when it comes time to actually cast and count them a few days from now in the Senate. I don't know I I mean ultimately we'll see if we've learned one thing from the American history of impeaching president it is that humility is an order predicting next steps when predicting ultimate outcomes comes maybe the votes in the Senate will be there to hear from witnesses. Maybe they will not be there. We will know when they actually vote terms of predicting stuff from here here on out. I would be cautious stuff. Happens things change twists developing plots in that same spirit. I would would like to offer a piece of context for the debate over the impeachment scandal. What the Senate is likely to do next like to offer a little piece of news context about that debate that you might not be expecting to hear from me? which is that if you take an honest look at the record here there is a fairly large contingent of Republicans in both the House? And the Senate who I think it's fair to say have behaved pretty aerobically on the issue at the heart of this impeachment scandal. Maybe roic isn't exactly the the right word. Maybe they were just being diligent. Sort of you know patriotically doing their job of a little bit of bravery but there is an important piece of how we got here to this impeachment of the president to this crux and the debate right now as to whether or not we're gonNA hear from witnesses. There is a through line in the recent history of how we got here that is being ignored by everybody on both sides because it doesn't fit the narrative of Republicans versus Democrats and some sort of evenly divided had mirror image split on the politics here and the disagreement on the basic facts. But I honestly think this is a very important piece of recent history in terms so how we got here and so take it from me Rachel motto here on MSNBC. I hereby want to praise some famous Republicans more than a handful of them for having earnestly pursued the defense of America's relationship with Ukraine and are supposedly unshakable support for them as a matter of US US foreign policy and having done so in ways that required them to confront the president and confront the trump White House in very recent days. And I don't know why this history is being written out of the way we got here but I think we should stop doing that. I think this is worth paying attention to the night that the Senate impeachment trial L. of president trump opened a freedom of Information Act lawsuit resulted in the publication of these documents from the White House from the Office of Management and budget inside the White House. American oversight site had filed a lawsuit to force the release of these documents from Owen. Be their documents having to do with Ukraine over the time period. That's implicated in the president's impeachment scandal and most so these documents were ridiculously redacted by the White House but we did in these documents again. That came out the night of the first the first night of the impeachment scandal. Right we did get to see the full text of a whole bunch of Republicans in the House and the Senate contacting the White House contacting uh-huh mb in August twenty nineteen to try to find out why at the trump White House was holding up aid to Ukraine. Why is this being held up? These multiple Republican members of the House and members of the Senate contacted the trump White House to ask about the hold up on the aid and to demand that the whole be released and that the aid aide make its way to Kiev for example. There's this one to Michael Duffy O. M. B. From Staffer Republican Senator Rob Portman Office dated Friday August August. Twenty fourth one fifty six PM. Michael I work on National Security Affairs for Senator Rob Portman as you may know. He's worked closely with the Armed Services Committee on Securing Security Assistance and is very interested in ensuring Ukraine has the military capabilities it needs to defend itself against Russian aggression. I understand that Owen. B is placed a hold on funding funding for Ukraine which could impact pending equipment contracts. If you're the right point of contact I'd appreciate it if you could lay out for me. The reason behind the holes and what the process is for getting the funding released. If you're not the right point of contact please put me in contact with the right office in a related email. Chain a few hours before that blunt letter of concern from Rob Portman get sent up the chain at O. M. B. We find that Republican Senator James inhofe has sent a similar inquiry quote. Thanks Jason flagging for another staffer. As well. We got a similar inquiry from senator. INHOFE team really Senator Portman and senator inhofe sending similar inquiries. He's and then there's this August twenty second three forty two PM. Chief of staff to Republican Congressman Mac. Thornberry's sends a similar inquiry. Good afternoon. Hope you're doing well. I heard today that Colombia's put a pause on expending funds authorized for Ukrainian security assistance. Is there somebody there that I could talk to to understand why. Signed Chief of staff to Republican congressman. Mac thornberry here's another one and this was not just in an email or a call. This one's on proper congressional office letterhead from Republican Republican congressman. Paul Cook of California set to Mick Mulvaney and his position as White House Chief of staff quote. We strongly urge you to direct that. All Ukraine's security assistance funding proceed to execution as planned. This funding is critical to support the Ukrainian armed forces against Russian aggression actions by O. M.. Be That delay. Implementation of this critical funding could undermine our clear national security interests. Slowing implementation of resources appropriated for the safety and security of Ukraine could undermine remind our relationship with Ukraine and our regional strategy. Again these these documents this evidence of Republicans Republicans in the House. Republicans in the Senate expressing earnest concern. About why the White House was screwing this up and hurting our own national security by doing this. These these documents were only made public the first day of the Senate impeachment trial but it exposes these Republicans for having done the right thing here and having been willing to stand up to the trump White House to do it but this is all their communications to the trump White House to go to the White House Chief of staff. Hey what's going on here. This isn't right right. I need to get an explanation here. This isn't right. This is bad for the United States. I need an explanation. But it's not just those Republicans within those with a within those few days in August from which we have those documents within a couple of weeks of those letters to here's more here's Republican Senator Rob Portman in an Republican Senator Ron Johnson this September third writing with a bunch of Democratic Senate colleagues to Mick Mulvaney quote we write to express our deep concerns earns of reports that the administration is considering not obligating Ukraine Security Assistance Ukraine Security Initiative funds for twenty nineteen quote. We have worked hard in a bipartisan manner. Manner in the Senate to provide funding for a Security Assistance Program for Ukraine that is effective and transparent and fiscally responsible. We strongly urge you to direct the Defense Department to to obligate these funds immediately two days after that September fifth. Another Republican congressman. Mike McCall top Republican on the Foreign Affairs Committee rights to Mick Mulvaney and to the head of O. M. B. Russell. He says quote we write to express our deep concern in support of Ukraine's defense regarding reports. That is holding up significant security assistance funding and support of Ukraine's defense. We urge you to make these funds available for obligation without delay. There's I mean I mean there's all these Republicans who have been acting somewhat heroically here right who've been getting up on their hind legs and demanding answers. There's from trump trump White House questioning the trump administration demanding that Ukraine needs to get eight standing up for how important that is how crucial it is as a matter of US keeping keeping our word. What a central matter it is for? US National Security ultimately when the aid was finally released in mid September. You might I remember at the time we finally found out the aid was being released. You know sort of weird statement from Republican Senator Lindsey Graham. We're thinking what exactly happened either today or yesterday with the Ukrainian but you said that it would that it was still. It'd been freed up last night. You need to ask them. Yeah Yeah last night I got freed up. You need to ask them weird statement right. But that was Lindsey Graham and he was the one who confirmed to reporters and thereby confirmed to the public for the first time the for some mysterious reason that he didn't even know this long standing being an increasingly troublesome a hold on aid to Ukraine had finally been lifted overnight. What he doesn't talk about now uh-huh and what has been somehow lost in the sauce of this impeachment scandal? Is that the reason reporters were asking him. Lindsey ground is because he Lindsey. Graham had taken a stand on this issue shoe Lindsey Graham and Democratic Senator Dick Durbin that very day had been working together on an amendment that would have confronted the trump White House on why that aid it was being held up. The amendment essentially would have forced their hand to make them release it. So Lindsey Graham was getting asked about the aid finally getting freed up because Lindsey Graham was a key part of the effort to force the aid out to to force the White House to do the right thing to confront the White House on this whole they had put on Ukraine's Ukraine's aid and to make it stop Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana suggested. CBS News that same day that he would have been with Lindsey Graham and Dick Durbin on that as well telling. CBS News when they asked him about it quote. We support Ukraine period. End of discussion senator and none of this is all all that long ago. This is all within the last four or five months in which all of these Republicans in the House and the Senate were somewhat heroically the at least earnestly and aggressively standing up to get in the way of the trump administration messing with Ukraine standing up to the White House to aggressively push. Push back on this mysterious White House effort to try to mess. With Ukraine all these Republicans in the House and the Senate standing up to try to protect Ukraine lean against these weird machinations of the trump White House that were as yet unexplained standing up for our national support for Ukraine pointing out that our national support for for Ukraine was under girded by a huge. Bipartisan vote in the United States Congress to direct aid to them which had been signed into law by President Trump and therefore shouldn't be screwed up by anyone. I mean Mac. Thornberry Michael McCall Paul Cook Ron Johnson. Rob Portman Lindsey Graham. John Kennedy James inhofe. They honestly have all been in the lead here. They've at least been willing to stand up alongside Democrats to do the right thing here. Are they have all been white hat. Good guys standing up against the trump White House and demanding answers in terms of the mistreatment and the messing about of our ally Ukraine. They have all been doing the right thing here until very very recently. It's only been a few months since they all stood up on this issue to do the right thing and we've got the receipts. I mean we've got the details of it. Have they since lost convictions. On this matter does it turn out. This is something they don't really care about. They were faking carrying about it. uh-huh months ago for some reason or have they all decided that yes. It's important that we support Ukraine. But it's more important that the president demanded that Ukraine announce it's investigations of Joe Biden. And if they don't we can let that aid slide. Is that really what they think. I doubt that that all of those Republican members of the House and members of the Senate have changed their mind very much on the importance of US aid to Ukraine. I doubt that any of them feel less strongly about it. Now but where are they now. And where are they going to be. As this goes forward impeachments unpredictable things. We may or may not be about to head into the witness evidence portion of this trial that itself will be unpredictable even just in terms of the process be humble and anticipating anticipating what might happen next here in the facts are still coming out. I mean just tonight. As I sat down I was just handed. This this is yet more documents that were just pried loose under another freedom of information information. Act Lawsuit Tonight. This stuff was just pried loose by American oversight from the Department of Energy. And we're just starting to go through it yet more documentation released just tonight but you know as has the story continues to develop and the scandal continues to be exposed at the heart of it. All our individual elected officials Republicans Looki- among them who know about and care about and how fought for the real issues at the heart of the scandal. And no no matter what you think about out any individual politician and terms of how this fits into the rest of their politics and the rest of their biography. They all know that in all likelihood their behavior behavior in this impeachment of President Donald Trump is gonNA end up in the first paragraph of their obituary. Someday when they finally leave this earth. They all know that back and the human conscience is a powerful thing and I think we do all know that every member of Congress every senator associated with the scandal and with this impeachment all WanNa look back at this moment a something that they get to brag about thirty years down the road not as something they will hope people forget about them. I'll be right back the campaign for me in my races. The Senate that he was a Republican president. I there's a cedar not withstanding all of that. This was a very serious matter then. I don't much about it. I'd better find out and that's when I decided to do that and I I hope it does something to me to say that but I think we did a pretty good job with it. Are you concerned about what's in your hair color. Or maybe you just don't and have the time to visit a salon every six weeks I get it well good news. Madison Reed is a solution to all of our hair color. Woes its luxurious at home color made with ingredients. You can feel good about. 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The president from office going inside impeachment with the reporters of NBC News Article Inside Impeachment by me. Steve Search News wherever. You're listening joining us now. Live is congressman. Adam Schiff. He is the chair of the House. Intelligence Committee is one of the House. Impeachment bit managers has been at the center of the Senate impeachment trial. Mr Chairman. Thank you so much for joining us. Tonight's pleasure to have you with you. So there's been some reporting wording on both sides as to whether or not Senate majority leader McConnell has the fifty one votes. He's trying to get to block any witness testimony at the trial whether he really doesn't have the votes or doesn't have them right now. We're not sure what. What's your understanding of the state of play on that now? I think it's still in flux. Basically I don't think either Senate leader can be all that confident of how that's going to turn out but I think it's very hard increasingly hard every moment every day for Republican senator hurts to say we don't want to hear from this witness who was at the center of things that had the president's ear that the president talked to about the heart of what the president is charged with here And therefore we come to the end at least of this beginning of the trial where we thought we would be once. We presented our case and the President presented his case. And that is the president's team basically has admitted that Donald Trump acted corruptly withheld. This money tried hi to cheat in the next election. Use the money to course or extort the lead of Ukraine into doing his political dirty work and so all we can fall back on now is so what The constitution doesn't allow us to do anything about it and for that argument. They're savior is Alan Dershowitz. Criminal Defense is lawyer who admits in his statement that his view is out of the mainstream. Indie Jonathan Turley who is the Republicans own constitutional expert in the House has said now again publicly. Dershowitz is wrong but you don't need consumer law professors to tell you that This whole theory theory is wrong. You just have to apply common sense Are the Republican senators really prepared to say that president who compromises our national security uses muses hundred millions of dollars of taxpayer money for military gear and weapons to help an ally defend itself against our adversary to coerce political investigations into his opponent. Are we really prepared to say that fat conduct is compatible with Office of the president. Tomorrow begins begins a new phase of the trial. You said this is sort of the the end of the beginning. We're going to start tomorrow. Sixteen hours of written questions from senators on both sides And I went through all of the questions that were submitted in the in the Clinton impeachment trial. I saw the remarks today from Chief Justice Roberts that he wants the questions to be framed in such a way that they could be answered in five minutes. I wonder how you and your team are preparing for this next stage. You obviously don't know what you're going to be. He asked and you need to be prepared to answer in fairly short bites on any any number of things that you might get from each side. But we've tried to divide up the topics topics so that members can focus on specific subject matter areas and so if the questions relate to that area we have managed to go to here or there. It's difficult to divide them out precisely and of course you can't anticipate everything you're going to be asked but we can anticipate a lot of it. I look at all the Clinton questions. It's a lot of them would ask. You know the side that you know. Support the case that the senators believed had been made and then the other side would would ask the other either the managers or the president's lawyers if they wanted to respond to what had been said both parties I think used it to expand their their case but also respond and rebut arguments made by the other side. I'm so that's largely. What will happen? But we'll have to sleep congressman. Schiff if you have a second if I could ask you we have to take a quick break at a couple of things I want to ask you about including some of the latest reporting on John Bolton his prospect as a witness if you could stick with us sure Great Congressman Adam. Schiff the house impeachment. Managers be back with us right after the stay with US joining us once again again is chairman. Adam Schiff the head of the intelligence committee in the House. One of the House impeachment manager. Sir thanks again for your time tonight. After she's sticking with us if the Senate ends up not voting for witnesses again and there has been reporting that they may or may not have the votes to do so if they ended up not voting for witnesses. Would you the other impeachment managers consider asking chief justice. Roberts he himself would authorize subpoenas for witnesses rich. I really don't want to get into or strategy. Or what our fallback all back plan. Maybe if the senators Refuse to call for John Bolton but I will say this you were asking earlier about the questions that senators will have for us. I won't have a chance to ask the senators questions but if I did the three that I would ask the senators are. Would you agree that John Bolton has relevant testimony and if you do why don't you WanNa hear it and how can you have a fair trial without with this. I may not get a chance to ask the senators that question. I won't get a chance to ask him that but their constituents will and I think those are very difficult questions for the senators answer So you know I wanNA keep the focus where it is right now. John Bolton should come testify. I think that's abundantly clear. The presence lawyers tried to contest What John Bolton has to say They claim that this was about a policy. Dispute at the president is being impeached over policy. Dispute this is not a policy dispute John Bolton I think will make clear the aid was withheld not because I'm any policy reason but because of a corrupt reason because the presence desire to use that money as leverage to get help Improper illicit help to cheat in the election. So that I think is really what's issue here and I just don't want to get into strategy beyond that we of course don't know what's in John Bolton's book the reporting from The New York Times says that in the manuscript Bolton asserts that the president trump specifically told him that he didn't want to release any aid to Ukraine unless so Ukraine announced investigations into the Biden's. That's actually the core claim at the heart of your case for the president's removal from office. Is that the core issue that you would plan to ask Bolton Alton about or is there more that's directly relevant to the question before the Senate that you'd like to ask him about as well you know. There's certainly a lot more. We'd like to ask ask John Bolton after all as Dr Fiona Hill testified Said you know you go. Tell the lawyers after this meeting on July tenth at the White House in which Sunland Basically blurted out in front of the Ukrainian delegation. Hey we've gotta deal here with Mulvaney. You make the announcement these investigations negations and you'll get your White House meeting. We'll give you a date. And John. Bolton says to Fiona Hill go talk to the lawyers. Tell them I don't want to be part of whatever drug deal he'll sunland and Mulvaney have cooked up. Obviously we WANNA ask him what he knows about that. Drug deal That was July Purportedly in this book of John Bolton Confronts the present or a conversation with the president the following month in August about the other quid pro quo involving military aid that is certainly the most serious allegation against the president. Now proven by the House and its case but this is further direct evidence in addition to the director. Confession by Mick Mulvaney Amy. That he talked to the president that the president told him that. Yes the investigations or one of them were part of the why he held up the money. Solomon also another first first hand witness said that While the president said no quid pro quo on the same call Also said Budzynski. It's got to go to the Mike and he's gotTa want to do it and announced these investigations basically described a quid pro quo. So Bolton is another confirming witness there was also abundant circumstantial evidence during the trial with this a suicide base. All the facts. The only conclusion they could reach two plus two week was four is that this is exactly the corrupt scheme. The president was involved in so While we want to ask him about but yes that's the most serious allegation and it comes apparently a direct conversation with the President Congressman. C'mon Adam Schiff one of the house impeachment manager at the center. That's impeachment trial. Sorry no the next couple days are going to be long days when you and your fellow managers are going to have to be on your feet for a long time Ah Good Luck. Keep US apprised and hope. See back soon thank you very much. Thanks very much all right. We've got much more ahead tonight. Stay with us. This is the front page banner headline of The New York Times yesterday morning. Monday money to Ukraine tied to inquiries Bolton Book says Washington Post led with it to manuscript leaks spurs calls for Bolton Testimony Wall Street Journal Bulletin claimed ties trump to aid. Freeze the Miami Herald trump uptight Ukraine aid to inquiries that he sought Bolton Book says those were headlines Yesterday morning Monday now today for second day in a row still still dominating New York Times Bolton's account fuel Senate push to call witnesses. Washington Post Revelations Royal. Gop Senators The Los Angeles Times above their understandably giant headline about the death of Lakers star. Kobe Bryant there it is in the left hand column there. Bolton claims rattled adult trump lawyers USA Today Bolton book adds to call for witnesses. There's politico taking the entire front page Bolton sets off trial trial frenzy. Here's the Tampa Bay Times. All caps bold Bolton's books steals spotlight. Here's the Minnesota Star Tribune Bolton Book upends Gop Reappear Strategy The moines register six days out from the Iowa caucuses going with a huge headline above the fold Bolton sought as witness. There's is the Charlotte Observer in North Carolina. GOP DEFENDS TRUMP as Bolton book adds pressure. The Bolton News is sticking I mean two days in in a row a front page headlines about ambassador. John Bolton potential testimony in the impeachment trial. It is not going away amid questions tonight about whether Senator Mitch. McConnell McConnell has the votes to try to block John Bolton and all witnesses from testifying and the White House might do to try to stop that testimony. Even if McConnell does have the votes how much muscle the White House could bring to bear in their own efforts to try to foreclose the prospect of Bolton telling his story the question of what the White House has in its quiver. What it might be able to do if it tries is a story that might surprise you and we have an expert opinion on that you will want to hear next? Stay with us while we wait to see whether Senate Republican leader Mitch. McConnell has the votes to try to block testimony from witnesses at the impeachment trial including John Bolton while we wait to see what the White House will do to try to fend off that possibility. Here's something intriguing published today. Just security by Ryan Goodman and Andrew Weisman headline why the White House may not dare fight on executive privilege joining us now is Andrew Weissmann former federal prosecutor including his work as a member of special counsel Robert. Muller's Muller's team Mr Weisman. Thanks for being here like you and Mr Goodman have done a service by pointing out that everybody's talking about executive privilege when it comes to the the power that the White House has the block witnesses but you're essentially saying that's kind of a bluff that they're never going to actually assert it. I'd be surprised if they did. And we started thinking about this. When we heard heard Senator Murkowski save that she was concerned about? Just how long it would take if they'd call John Bolton because it may just be a long drawn out process in court and we thought right okay. There are two issues that one is waiver because now we've seen the president himself and authorizing other people to talk about what it is. That happened or claims happened with John. Bolton and the other is that if you actually go to court and you ask a court to defend their boat and shouldn't be able to talk because of executive privilege the court is going to look for whether it's waved or whether there is crime fraud because that is an exception the whole point of executive privilege is that you want good good advice from your legal advice from the people around you totally legal advice exactly both sense of the words if you are doing Nisa getting. You're actually making these these. Having this conversation order to commit a crime the court obviously is not going to say that's protected by executive privilege that came up in Watergate as well right when the White House is threatening to invoke executive privilege as a reason for things not to be admissible. That was part of the problem. Is that these conversations were we're about crimes or covering up crimes and therefore they couldn't by definition to be privileged exactly and say go right there if they did actually bring this stuff into into court judges they might duck it by saying waived. I don't need to reach this issue. But a lot of judges at least in the argument phase. We'll explore all of the different issues. So you you could imagine a District Court judge saying I wanNA talk about waiver and now let's talk about crime fraud this by the way came up special counsel's office and Chief Judge Barrel How l. let them is. All public had a decision about Paul Manafort and when he spoke to his council. We had made a motion saying that should not be privileged because of crime I'm fraud and the judge asked for all the evidence about it and then made a decision that in fact crime fraud applied the same court that the Senate Republicans or the White House would have to go to in order to ensure that in that just to be clear in that part of the Manafort case she wanted did that evidence withheld from the court on the basis of privilege. The judge ruled Nope we. I'm fraud means that it's actually admissible. Exactly which would happen to the president if he was in the same boat right. And you can imagine Matt Justin Moore and then hit exactly and politically. Unlike the MANAFORT case politically for the president. It would not be great obviously save stating the obvious obvious type of court make a finding wouldn't then just be the Democrats saying we're alleging something you'd have court making the initial determination that I find crime. Crime fraud applies and the executive privilege is not going to block this bottom line here. This is very helpful. There is a lot of nonsense being said about what the White House can do. Or will ultimately do due to try to drag this thing out and it's worth calling their bluff on some of it Andrew Weissmann. Thank you very much very close. All right. We'll be right back. Stay with US and here it is. In the wild this is a billboard truck that puttered around Washington DC all day shuttling between the capital and the White House and the trump hotel was paid for by Republicans for the rule of law a group of self proclaimed lifelong Republicans who have been rallying being against this president. The reason this thing has a giant picture of the vice presidents face on it is because this truck is supposed to convince Republicans who might be on the offense about removing president trump from office that going ahead with doing so might not be so bad if you clearly it says. They're removed trump four pence on the one side and it says pence it could be worse on the other. It also pointed to a website president pence dot com. They seem to be testing on a campaign slogan for a president pence quote. Well I guess he'll do. Here's their pitch for president pence quote dump. Donald Trump. Get Mike Pence. Mike Pence is a bland boring completely typical ordinary conservative Republican from India from Indiana and if the Senate does its duty they'll make him the next the president of the United States if Donald Trump is removed from office Mike Pence Not Nancy Pelosi or Hillary Clinton becomes the president. And you know we. We could do worse. I didn't say that they did that. Does address tonight. We will see you tomorrow. The show weeknights at nine stern on. MSNBC YOU WANT TO BE President. I've watched many candidates for their party's nomination but only a few knew how to get it for this microphone. My podcast. PODCAST is about what it takes to get the nomination. Six episodes six timeless themes that separate the few winners from any losers. The hope still lives and the dream. Steve Schell never die. So you WANNA be President with Chris Matthews and M._S._N._B._C.. PODCAST searched now wherever you're listening and subscribe. I two episodes available now.

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Does Joe Biden Have a #MeToo Problem?

Politics and More Podcast

23:28 min | 2 years ago

Does Joe Biden Have a #MeToo Problem?

"This is the political scene a weekly conversation with New Yorker writers and editors about politics. It's Thursday may second. I'm Dorothy Wicken executive editor of the New Yorker last week. Joe Biden announced that he's running for president in twenty twenty. He was the front runner for the nomination before he even made his campaign official, but not every democrat has welcomed his candidacy some think he represents the party of the past not the future a concern that was exacerbated in early April. When seven women accused him of inappropriate physical contact. He is now facing renewed scrutiny for how he handled Anita Hill's testimony in the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings in nineteen ninety one when he was chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee less Thursday shortly before entering the presidential race Biden called hill to express his regret for what she had endured. She was reportedly left deeply on satisfied by his apology from. Eating Biden to issue a stronger response on the few. I am sorry. She was treated the way she was treated. I wish we could have figured out a better way to get this thing done. I did everything in my power to do what I thought was within the rules to be able to stop things. But look take a look at what's happened. When I did when we got past when we got through that godawful experience you've been through. She's one of the reasons why we have the metoo movement. She's one of the reasons why I was able to finish writing bonds. Jane Mayer and Evan Osnos both New Yorker staff writers based in Washington. Join me to discuss Biden's handling of the Thomas hearings, and how the metoo movement is shaping politics. Jane, welcome and Evan to have you both on. Thanks. Great to be Jane. I'm going to start with you in nineteen Ninety-four you enjoy Abramson published a book about the Clarence Thomas confirmation fight and this week. You went back to your nose to write a retrospective piece for New Yorker dot com about the hearings. What did you find? Well. I mean, one of the points. I wanted to make was the reason Anita hill was not accepting. Joe Biden's apology as having been full enough was that he kept referring to himself as having done all he could under the rules and kind of saying passively. Yes, she wasn't treated well. But not saying that it was he himself that he was not taking responsibility himself and. If you go back, and you look at the record, and what I was trying to show was that Biden was chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee, and it was he who set the roles for how she was treated. And so he had a lot to do with what went wrong during those hearings. He certainly wasn't the chief sort of sinner against Anita hill. But he quite bungled the hearings yet he in his attempted by partisanship. He he actually made it possible for this gross display of heavily partisan politics. And you know, the Republicans were out to destroy any hills credibility, and they did. So I mean in some ways the best summary of it came from another Senator Howard Metzenbaum who was sort of an across the old liberal at the time. And he just said, you know, Joe bent over backwards so far to please the Republicans that he enabled them to do what they were going to do. No matter what. Hell or high water? They were going to put Clarence Thomas on the court. And so as we move forward the question of whether this matters anymore. This is really ancient history. Almost as politics coast. It's twenty eight years ago. But I think that the live question that I would bring out of all of it is whether Joe Biden has learned how to sort of see the difference between the old style democratic politics, which was trying to be fair to everyone and the new style politics that's conducted, particularly by the Republican party, which is warfare and they were out to win during those hearings and Biden was out to be fair. And he got slaughtered as a result. Also, it's worth saying that Biden didn't call hill to apologize until the day of his campaign announcement which is a little goal. And but I also want to ask you about sort of how the standards of conduct have changed with the advent of me too. So pulling someone in for a hug on the campaign trail is different from. What say the current occupant of the White House has both of doing too young women. Yeah. I mean, I think there's this huge problem out there right now sort of category creep between the behavior somebody like Harvey Weinstein, which we think of as potentially criminal, and then sort of more garden variety, just invasion of women's space and kind of being to to huggy in Hansie, or whatever which a lot of younger women are sort of speaking out saying they really don't like that and all kinds of touching even friendly touching requires consent. So there's there's a big blur out there in the political world. And you know, the lines are very unclear and Biden was the recipient of some of that criticism for stuff that even his accuser Lucy floors says was not assault was not sexual harassment was just sort of a kind of behavior that made her uncomfortable. Yeah. Evan. You know, it's interesting to see how much things have changed. Just in the past couple of years you profile Biden for the magazine back in twenty fourteen when he was vice president, and there was speculation at the time about whether he would run for president in two thousand sixteen. So you saw up close very close. Actually, you yourself his very sort of schmaltzy political persona. And we as Jan's been alluding to Biden's defenders say the shoulder squeezes, the rubbing of noses are just his style of exuberant connecting with people. I think the New York Times up Ed columnist Michelle Goldberg aptly called it a funky ler Pauline. So what did you see you when you were with out there with Biden? Yeah. It's funny. You know, Biden was famous among other politicians for having what John Kerry described to me of admiringly clearly admiringly as a he was a Biden was very tactile politician is what he said Biden brings people. Linney hugs them. He does this thing, particularly with men worries cups the back of your head. You're not quite sure where it's all headed. And and but that was a big part of his persona, and it fed into this image. And I think what is a deep seeded piece of his political life, which is that he is really. Has this almost desperate appetite for the connect as political operatives with college that moment where you make eye contact with the skeptic in the crowd or you have that experience with somebody on the rope line that they're talking about later in the day that can be an asset or it can be a liability for a long time. It's been one of the things that Joe Biden sort of prides himself on and actually standing next to a Barack Obama. There was there was an logic to it. Because Obama was the cool side of that. He was a little bit reserved. He at the end of the day of campaigning Brock Obama didn't wanna talk to anybody else. He wanted to sit in his room and read, and I remember one of Joe Biden's advisors guide been with him for decades, telling me that at the end of a long day of campaigning, Biden would be so amped up that he would get into his hotel room, and he would watch two movies three movies, and he's still couldn't fall asleep because he was just so kind of wired and so. You know, that creates this very much this two sides of Joe Biden that people are still contending with now. So Jake went back to the Thomas hearings, many, many Democrats were horrified. When in watching the Brett Cavanaugh confirmation hearings last year at the debasement of Christine, Blasi Ford and the weird rage of cavenaugh. And how it all seemed to be the Inida hill spectacle seemed to be reenacted all over again. And that is one of the things that Anita hill said when she spoke to the New York Times on the day of Biden's announcement was that partly what he needs to make an apology for from her standpoint, it's not just to her, but really to many other women and in particular Christine, bloody Ford for having set the stage for the same sort of process to take place again during the cabinet hearings. And in all those intervening years there's been a lot of progress for women, but when it. Comes to confirming supreme court Justice in front of the Senate Judiciary committee. It was as you say almost reenactment. It was the skunk groundhog day feeling. The only thing that the Senate Republicans had come up with make things look a little better was they brought in a woman to ask some of the nastier questions of Christine Blasi Ford. But again, it was a single woman's voice up against a very powerful man whose credibility was being questioned just for having tried to speak up when asked by the Senate to do. So there was also an interesting piece this morning in the Washington Post on the up Ed page by Angela Wright who talked very bluntly about how Thomas played the race card in in those hearings. Really intimidating the white committee members, and she has she put it effectively turning Biden into a prattling ineffectual lump of nothingness. What about Angela writes Angela write that piece in the Washington Post? I would recommend for people to go. Check it out because Angela right is the voice that we did not get to here during the Clarence Thomas confirmation hearings. She was an additional female witness who wanted to testify against Clarence Thomas about her own experience being sexually harassed by him. And Joe Biden who was at the time. The Senate Judiciary committee, chairman got sort of cowed out of calling her the Republicans told him you're Angela right is going to turn out to be Angela wrong. And they said she was mouthy or whatever. I mean, they basically they intimidated him into not calling her. Instead, she was allowed to put a statement into the record. So late that almost nobody saw it. She was spending the hearings in a motel room with her lawyer expecting to be called a never was. And so finally in the Washington Post, you can read what she sounds like. And she. Is a really strong voice. And she says in this column, very interestingly, I don't expect or even want or need any kind of apology from Joe Biden. Yes, he did bungle those confirmation hearings. But she says it's the Republicans who really went after Anita hill who have an awful lot more to answer for and finally in the end, she says, I'll tell you who I do want an apology from Clarence Thomas. And so you get to see what it might have been like if Angela ride testified I interviewed her for the book. And I thought she was a powerful voice who might very well have made the difference if she'd been able to testify, but you know, she's saying, you know, when it comes to Joe Biden. Yes, he he made some mistakes, but this shouldn't be held against him. We need to focus on Trump who so much worse. Yes. And she's pointing out the they're real political dangerous here. And I wonder what you think about whether the. Purchase -ness of the metoo movement is in danger of torpedoing popular politicians. I think of Al Franken who was basically railroaded out of the Senate without being given much of a chance to defend himself at all. Well, I think this is a real issue. A real problem is the due process because what you've got often is sort of trial by internet in these cases. And it was interesting in the case of L Frank, and he was asking for a hearing in front of the some kind of investigation by the Senate ethics committee, and a lot of senators had said they too were thought that would be the fair process for him. But as you say there was this. He was sort of railroaded out. There was a, you know, a kind of growing panic among Democrats that they needed to show that they were more righteous than he was and they kind of threw him under the bus the so the party has to sort of come to terms with how who they're going to go after and how and when and what constitutes a real metoo incident. And what doesn't I mean? Anything? I think that the some people have written and talked about how if the the allegations against apoliticial like fide, and in the case of, you know, having been sort of overly tactile with these women that there's a danger that it can trivialize the me too movement because there is this category creep, and you've you sort of it makes it look like all these cases are minor. When some of these cases are really serious and important. And so there you see some pushback actually from women make up present sqi spoke up and called the allegations against Biden ridiculous. So there's some infighting within the Democratic Party about how to handle this. WNYC studios is supported by Wells Fargo, whose global operations are one hundred percent powered by renewable energy. They've also helped finance more than eight percent of the nation solar and wind energy here. In the nation's capital. Wells Fargo a nonprofit grid alternatives. Recently worked to install solar panels on the roof of the park, Chester apartments. Helping nearly one hundred residents in the affordable housing complex save on energy costs. More at stories dot W, F dot com slash DC. So Evan back to you. I wanna have you talk a little bit about Biden's record. He was a US Senator for thirty six years so longtime, and maybe you could give us a brief overview of his record and congress, and then as Abacha's vice president there was kind of an interesting shift in the public's perception of him. There were years in there before he became vice president where he was seen as a bit of a blowhard, and you know, prone to gaffes and everything else, but then his image changed. So what was going on there? Well, as Jane mentioned, I think one of the things about looking at his handling of Nita hill hearings is about saying, okay? What is the totality of this guy's experience? How do you line up the assets and the liabilities over thirty six years in the Senate and then eight years in the White House? And that's I think clearly what the campaign is certainly be trying to do over the months ahead. He is proud of the fact that he wrote the violence against women. Act which raised the penalties for sex offenses in did expand prosecution domestic violence, that's sort of one of the things that people credit him with having done as a Senator on the liability side of the column. Those voting record puts him on the what is now the wrong side of the nineteen ninety four crime Bill which put a lot of people in jail who it's now believe should not have been there. He voted for repealed glass Steagall, which kind of laid some of the foundation towards the financial crisis. And then he also voted for the Iraq war. But then said later that it was a big mistake. And he became a critic of it while he was in the Senate in the White House. What you see is interesting transformation where he went from being sort of a guy who political aides would roll their eyes at the fact that he would talk too long in meetings. He was undisciplined on the stump as they would say, but then he did things at times that would say to them, and they would say you can't underestimate Joe Biden's political instincts. And there was this one moment in twenty twelve during the reelection campaign when you remember that? Obama had sort of botched his first debate with Mitt Romney come out, you know, couldn't have relaxed way just ended up not looking forceful enough. And so then they had the debate coming up between Biden and Paul Ryan and Biden came out in a kind of slugger mode, and it actually did stem the damage I think as you sit back and look at what he's done over the last half a century in Washington. One of the things that is worth remembering that, he's a pretty durable politician who has these instincts and that makes her him. Well, when he's up against people who have a lot less experience and dealing with his record. A lot of people are saying don't apologize to be voted for the crime Bill at a particular time. That's your record. You'll kill yourself. If you do that. Yeah. I think he's going to have to go piece by piece there's some things which he clearly has to apologize for his handling of Nita hills. Testimony and the hearings it was wrong. And unless he is able to address it thoroughly people will keep bringing it up. But there are other things like the crime Bill which viewed in the context of now is a subject of criticism. But he's going to have to say, look if you vote for me, you are voting for a half century in American government, you're not voting necessarily for one small issue or another, and it's going to be up to people to decide whether they want that I think part of this is that it's impossible to separate how people view Joe Biden from how they've you Donald Trump and Donald Trump is known for never apologizing. Never knowledge in any failure, any fault any error, and people are desperate for a bit of self reflection of bit of honesty bit of sincerity about the fact that nobody makes perfect decisions. And if Joe Biden can figure out how to navigate that. It's probably to his advantage to do. So I think part of it also is that Joe Biden it's six needs to show that he's not stuck in. In the past. So it's important for him to show these learned, and that he's very much in the moment, and has a modern sense of what's going on in the world. And it's interesting some of his just his rhetoric feels old, you know, there used to be a basic bargain in this country that when you work hard able to show share in the prosperity or work helped create. So there's nothing wrong with that at all that's worthy and admirable. But is that the way people are talking these days and thinking about dealing with a minimum wage and income inequality and all the rest of it. Well, I think what's interesting is you hear him striking this very strong economic note. Right. And if you go back to looked at the interviews that I had with him five years ago. What was fascinating was Hugh starting to talk about income inequality, then he was kind of gently criticizing his own party for not doing enough on the middle class for not talking about the absence of opportunity, and he ended up obviously not running for president in that race. And. So I think for him he feels as if he's been talking about this stuff for a long time. And he's picking up the baton now it happens to arrive at a moment when there is this big American conversation about capitalism and what it's delivering and what's not delivering. So some of the language might sound a little bit, musty. But on the other hand people may be actually open to the idea of him saying, let's restore some of the equilibrium or at least some of the process by which the gains of business were delivered onto workers to at least a greater extent than they are. Now, his strong support from the firefighters union, for instance, and and his very pro labor statements, obviously resonate elilott with a lot of democratic voters and seem to be worrying Trump Trump seemed so discomfited by the fact that Biden gut the endorsement of the firefighters union he tweeted something like sixty times in one morning trying to attack Biden. Claim that the firefighters really loved him more despite the endorsement, you could see it it truly got under his skin. Jane, I want to ask you about a story that broke in the times this morning about hunter Biden, Joe Biden son who had served on the board of a company owned by Ukrainian oligarch, and which seems to pose a problem of potential conflict of interest for his father. Could you explain that for a bit complicated? It is a complicated story. But I think if you step away what you're looking at is an effort already to try to to get opposition research done by the right to throw it against Biden, much the ways the same kind of position research was thrown against Hillary Clinton. In fact, in this case, Peter Schweitzer who was the author of book called Clinton cash during the twenty sixteen campaign is now the author of another book that's full of dirt about various democratic candidates. Especially though, I'm sure there's some. Publican's he throws in there too. But, but that's where this Biden allegation comes out of partly which is an effort to try to make it look like hundred Biden's business dealings are a big corrupt problem for his father. It's only the beginning. I think you know there. There are other issues I've seen bubbling up on the right? There is an an effort to sort of tar a hunter Biden for business in China and other things so I mean, it's a can of worms that the Republicans just can't wait to open despite the party's own Ukrainian problems. Yeah. You think that that maybe there'd be a little bit of embarrassment? Among the Trump camp in trying to make corruption issue. But hey, it's a shameless business. You know, I think one of the things Joe Biden is going to run on the idea that he is clean that. He is not that he is return to a kind of politics, we associated with the Obama White House that was not racked by allegations of corruption and the Republicans are going to try to him on that that's one of the reasons why you're hearing about this now from the person responsible for the Clinton cash book. And I think this will also be questioned for the media about how people respond when up research begins to come into the race are people going to vetted are they going to evaluate it. Or are they going to report on the existence of it and have that be considered enough? But yeah, I think putting it in the context of what corruption looks like in this White House is probably part of the task. Okay. Thank you both to be continued. Thanks. Thanks much. So fun to be with you. Jane Mayer is the New Yorkers chief Washington correspondent and the co author of strange Justice the selling of Clarence Thomas. Evan Osnos is New Yorker staff writer and the author of age of emission chasing fortune truth and faith in the new China. This has been the political scene. You can subscribe to this and other New Yorker podcasts by searching for the New Yorker and your podcast app and find more political analysis and commentary on New Yorker dot com. Feel free to rate and review the political scene on apple podcasts. Our theme music is by Russell Gillespie. This program is produced by Alex Barron for New Yorker dot com with systems from Kylie Warner. I'm Dorothy wiccan.

hunter Biden Joe Biden Clarence Thomas Anita Hill Senate Judiciary committee Jane Mayer Evan Osnos vice president Biden Senate White House Washington chairman Barack Obama New York Times Wells Fargo Christine Blasi Ford Senator Howard Metzenbaum Joe bent
Episode 32 The Government, Labor, and Labor Racketeering Part 1

Labor: Know Your Rights

22:37 min | 1 year ago

Episode 32 The Government, Labor, and Labor Racketeering Part 1

"Hello listeners this is labor rates podcast I'm your host Dave this episode is brought to you by the National League of Justice and Security Professionals Welcome back listeners record impe Oh you capone ordered the Union's President Kill the movie producers paid Capone's organization a hundred and fifty thousand dollars tation sometimes gangsters became labor officials without any vote or other action by the workers who when they came to represent is extremely important that we face this history learn from it and know how to remove and prevent it when it is attempted again it was easy for organized presence of locals in the building Trades Hotel and restaurants and other locals capone gain took control of the Chicago based Motion Picture Operators Union a message ideas for future episodes are tell us about events campaigns are victories in your union please check out life on longtime head of the outfit controlled numerous laborers Internationally Union of North America I you in a locals in Chicago neighbors and associates in various positions in the union insuring Organiz cramps presence in the film business for decades Tony Accardo train groups to take over local unions in the first third of the twentieth century especially Craft Unions in violent conflicts between workers and employees and he's welcomed such corrupt unions vessel voiding having to deal with a real union these racketeer's were even recruited by so called honesty and leaders to defeat rival unions. We I tell you in American organized crime groups engaged in labor racketeering from their beginnings in the United States Jobs Hotel and restaurant employees H. e. r. e. locals in Atlantic City Angel- ARDO loss of Cleveland Crime Family was lawyers Costa nutritious supply goons both sides would take over a local by means of violence intimidation and election fraud fish-market may payoffs to Atlanta out capone's original organized crime organization in Chicago in the nineteen hundred nineteen twenties dominate workers this was binding for three years with the accession that workers could vote to be represented by another union are no union at all the strike for seven years in nineteen thirty three the international alliance of employees I a t s e went out on this series will cover organized crime within the Labor movement meaning people in the Labour preferred to ignore this part of our history I believe it is then Arthur Cola associate of the outfit Sydney Core Shak exercised enormous influence over the central state pension and I bet joint council forty one and served as president of the huge Ohio teamsters conference this powerbase allowed him and Leonardo Oh with the help of Chabala to arrange bill Senate Jackie Presser career in several different unions including Jackie's nineteen eighty three heavily involved in labor racketeering William Presser Nicknamed Big Bill and Associated Cleveland's Bali Crime Family headed welfare funds as well as influence over the IB T- Philadelphia had Angelo Bruno who control the roofers union as well as several auto that control enabled the outfit to designate in control the National General President Peter Fosko and later Peterson Angelo succession to the IB. You know President Jimmy Hoffa offering fitzsimmons Ray Williams Jackie Presser and William Carthy the valley we used teamsters pension fund loans to build Las Vegas Casinos Big Bill Presser served as president of the Joint Council forty one is some labor racketeers were Chris Matic and no doubt some workers that they would be better up being represented by individuals with salons founded the Seafood Workers Union in the late nineteen twenties and dominate the Fulton fish market in Lower Manhattan all the participants in the the US National President New York City's garage owners were threatened with systematic vandalism to customers our representation another scheme develop win civil rico trusteeship started cleaning mobsters from unions the Independent National Labor Relations Act of one thousand nine hundred eighty five an employer to voluntarily recognize a particular union as exclusive bargaining agent for his owed them organized crime moved to take control of the Union they gave the Union officers and ultimatum mob cronies in top union position I help them for example nineteen twenty one several building services employees International Union. Bs E I you leaders were in carrots if a union member challenge the mob they could be fired or face violent reprisals dissidents were beaten at Union Union Union it's not affiliated with any national or international union after being expelled from the in nineteen ninety four working later in the nineteen forties and fifties pension and welfare fund screw with collective bargaining agreements containing agreements a union local could use threats and actual violence to drive off competing unionists could use employer recognition of their union by convicted of conspiracy they were able to obtain pardons by appealing to the outfit to use its political influence within a short time feeling that they are trey the employers sought the outfits help they send thugs to keep the theaters opened breaking the strike they forced ats e to higher up it be organized crime organization gained a high position the union or local they moved to consolidate that control via strikes BS could get money out of unions inflated salaries multiple salaries use of union cars planes and boats also overpaid gene mode was crime families chief Labor racketeer his connections to high end the teamsters bore fruit when later in his career he show are high paying jobs service contracts cars trips loans all cares for working with them up last coast stress I they voluntarily signed representational agreements with a mob-dominated champion their workers paid dues without receiving any benefits the jobs for family members friends and mistresses no show jobs embezzlement was coming aided accidentally by POOR RECORD CRAM failing and Cleveland controlled a number of labor unions such as I l a local thirteen seventeen and teamsters local forty one or ten and four sixty our hits high when his son Jackie became general president in nineteen eighty three it was simple for organized crime figures to take over implores contributing where employees and even with equal share of responsibility of union an employer be employers paid little attention Asians are leave town George scalise obtained a charter to create local ninety four the Boeing Billers Academy Employees Union the violence or sabotage our by promises of sweetheart deals and lack of desire towards union governates administration by ems the Labor piece extortion by threatening employers with Labor problems unions controlled by Koster could once they represented all our most asssociation were kept out of the industry and any persistent firma would face labor troubles often after these employers the as to allow an employer to hire union and nonunion employees racketeer's also gain money by means of the strike insurance racket with all other firms finally they could force these firms in the employer associations to us mob owned or controlled supply companies uh-huh powerbrokers Labor was good for them creating a regular revenue stream generated by union salaries perks extortions bribes forty five thousand from local three to two and one hundred twenty thousand from an employer association in addition to one hundred and fifty thousand found that racketeers still one third of union members dues as was seventy five thousand dollars from from restaurant workers local six the FBI Department of Justice Lawyers the Department of Labor investigators and labor leaders they reviewed previous congressional investigation evaluation of applicable and responses to the issues and recommendations for future actions they heard testimony from nine six six and that unions former secretary treasurer Edwin Gonzales set up a new independent union local one sixteen in embezzlement and fraud it made them part of the power elite that twentieth century and made them different from other crime groups for example they finally could force employers to purchase specific goods and services from mob mob controlled supply companies Labor racketeering eatings home set on fire and even murder those who befriended the mob could be appointed as business agents and shop stewards a saint why one hundred thousand dollars a year Thomas Dewey's nineteen thirty s investigation into corruption within the restaurant industry I think could be very lucrative rubber brindell was the highest paid union official in the country is crafty said have made it more than Senate unions the commission said since the nineteen fifties the teamsters had been firmly under the influence of Organized Crime Eric Use New Jersey Sim wroto and Gonzales enrolled current IV T- local eight oh seven members into their new union was they were to create a report analyzing region by region of organized crime problems to include information on its participants and Oh biker gangs street gangs and drug cartels President Reagan in one thousand nine hundred eighty three established a commission on organized crime four international unions with a richly documented history of labor racketeering the International Brotherhood of teamsters I've et the mafia retained its corruption in not long after huff ahead resign at the time the commission's investigation former first later had influence in the political arena so this create an environment where politicians reached out to labor for endorsements and thus record cheers with these corrupt union leaders and these businessmen would reach out to these labor racketeers help with Labor disputes it gets four for embezzlement dual unionism in breach of other fiduciary duties mentioned some Proto former president of I bt locally from restaurant owners Labor gave organized crime contacts with business as well as they had no choice but to do business with and get along didn't hearings and reports the create a series of reports on gambling money laundering drug trafficking and one called the edge on organized I am `exploitation of labor unions the edge was released on March first nineteen eighty six and was mainly dependent on organized crime support for his election oppressors father was an associate of Cleveland 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International Union Associations were completed casino stir our associates would start up by our strong arm their way into a firm that's having an advantaged in to how and where the funds were invested Labor racketeers could use their union position to solicit bribes from employers to gain better old convention delegates the mob controlled delegates ratified the decisions and proposals of mob control president vice-president bribes and no show jobs they siphon money from union coffers taking kickbacks for sweetheart service contracts and arranging see how the gave de Cardi Charters for several New York area I bt paper locals that is local with no members should with organized crime Williams himself had been controlled by Kansas City Cosa Nostra boss Jebali sponsored Las Vegas Casinos according to the Commission Cosa Nostra exerted a powerful influence over the hotel and employees in in one thousand nine hundred thirty eight lease called on organized crime to stuff union ballot boxes later the mob helped him become the BS in Restaurant Employees International Union H. E. R. E. U. Since National Prohibition Maintain Twenty Two through Nineteen H. I. V. T. Central States pension fund she has where the benefit of organized crime typical pin hey mom domination of New York City's waste hauling industry bomb controlled unions elected mom controlled officers who chose mob control a Democrat from Nevada to vote against trucking deregulation he testified that everybody teamsters local union heads from general executive boards she officers the Commission explained how Cosa Nostra Organized Crime Families Influence in the IB players of an industry form an employer association paying dues that went to Cosa Nostra in return any firm not in the US such ESA Gambino Crime Family Associates Bernard adults teens decades long control of Ivy t local eight thirteen was key to the cheap provided leverage over tens of thousands of businesses dependent upon truck deliveries converting it into cash through extortion solicitation thirty three a murder of a union member at the Union's Nineteen Thirty Sixth National Convention led to an investigation by New York see special to get these

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Does the Constitution Require Birthright Citizenship?

We The People

1:04:13 hr | 2 years ago

Does the Constitution Require Birthright Citizenship?

"I'm Jeffrey Rosen presidency. Oh, the national constitution center. And welcome to we the people a weekly show of constitutional debate. The national constitution center is the only institution in America chartered by congress. To disseminate information about the constitution on a nonpartisan basis. Recently, President Trump proposed to end birthright citizenship through executive order. The proposal has set off vigorous commentary does the president have the authority under the constitution to end birthright citizenship could congress do it by stature if the president can't do it. I order, and what does the constitution mean in the fourteenth amendment when it states, and the people listeners, I want you to bring out your interactive constitutions all persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof or citizens of the United States and at the state rain. They reside. Joining us to discuss this crucial constitutional question are two of America's leading commentators on it. Akilah Maher is sterling professor of law and political science at ill law school, and the author of many claim books, including most recently, the custody Shen today, the keel is the co author of the interactive constitutions explainer on the citizenship clause with John Harrison and deer. We the people listeners. I want you to check out the common explainer right after the podcast keel. It's so wonderful to have you back on the people. And an Edward earlier is senior fellow at the Cremona institute and professor of political science emeritus at California State University, San Bernardino, he is the co author of the book, the founders on citizenship and immigration has argued the birthright citizenship can and should be reformed without violating the constitution. Oppressor earler. Thank you so much for joining. Up a professor early. Let's begin with you. What did the framers mean by the phrase subject to the jurisdiction thereof? And why have you concluded that they did not believe to include the children of illegal aliens in the United States in their notion of birthrights, of course. As you know, that's the crucial question. The citizenship. Clause of the fourteenth amendment was introduced at a very late date. And it was suggested that assistantship claws. Our definition of citizenship was necessary because it had already been adopted. Our provision had already been adopted that trilogues immunities of United States citizens would be guaranteed. So Senator Wade had suggested that the definition of citizenship should be all persons born or naturalized should be citizens of the United States. That suggestion went to the joint committee on reconstruction. The and that the committee took up the issue and came back with the provision that said all persons born or naturalized and subject to the jurisdiction or citizens of the United States. The committee. Evidently, put considerable weight on the provision subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. When. This is ship clause was introduced into the Senate by Jacob Howard. He said this was not an innovation. It was the holy a codification or reanimation of the law of the land as that already existed. He was obviously referring to the Civil Rights Act of eighteen sixty six which had been passed over president Johnson's veto only six six weeks earlier. And the Civil Rights Act of eighteen sixty six was the first definition of citizenship after the the ratification of the thirteenth amendment. And remember this was passed by a two-thirds majority of both houses of the congress. So it enjoyed widespread support of the congress, and that the definition of citizenship said all persons border naturalized and not subject to a foreign power were citizens of the United States. So Jacob Howard submitted the citizenship clause. He knew that the Civil Rights Act of eighteen sixty six did not include persons who were subject to a foreign power. And so the citizenship clause that he entered ucsd. As you read at the outset. Was read to the floor of the Senate in someone objected immediately that this would include native persons Senator Howard's that no it would not because they were considered to be foreign nations, and they didn't know allegiance to the United States, but they owed allegiance to their tribes. There were considered to be four nations. In other words, they're considered to be foreigners. Not owning allegiance the United States Senator Trumbull who had been the author of the Civil Rights Act debate team sixty six came to the support of Senator Howard said, yes, meet a subject to the jurisdiction met owing allegiance to the United States. Not owning allegiance to any other country owing complete allegiance United States. Subject to complete jurisdiction of the United States. And that's what we take to me to be the meaning of the jurisdiction clause of the fourteenth amendment. At doesn't mean subject to the laws of the United States or merely subject to the courts of the United States. It means owing allegiance sue tonight'd states being subject to complete jurisdiction of the United States. And the exclusion of those who are not subject to birthright citizenship means those who allegiance to foreign nations who are subject to foreign nations. They are excluded, and I presume that means that children born to illegal aliens whose parents oh allegiance. Other nations would be excluded from jurisdiction of the United States professor remark. In your separate statement on. The interactive constitution you strongly disagree with this interpretation. And you say anyone born in America under the American flag is a citizen, even if his parents are not citizens. And indeed, even if his parents are not here legally, tell us why you believe that is the case yet. And it's not just I believe it. It's basically, I would say candidly, it'd be very shocked if if that were not held by every single member, the the current United States Supreme court, and that includes my student Brett Calvin on many people that I work pretty closely with them includes basically, virtually every constitutional scholar who teaches constitutional law school left right and center who is weighed in on people who are law trained from Michael McConnell of a George W Bush distinguished appointee to the bench now professor at Stanford. My collaborator in recent op ad. Steven Calabresi, the founder of the federalist society other very leading fabulous society people. I George Conway who who spouse Kellyanne Conway works for President Trump. So this is actually the at the a virtually every opinion issued by the executive branch of government, I can quote several and leading supreme court opinions. And so it's really the consensus view of the of lawyers left right and center, and and by the way, if the argument that we just heard is that illegal aliens, oh, they're elite allegiance to other countries will actually that would be true. I guess legal aliens to. That they add to end and some of the main up agreeing holders, they may be citizens. They may they may be students. They may be visitors on tourist visas, and and other things I myself was born in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and my parents at the time they weren't here illegally, but they also weren't United States citizens. So let's in this. I thought about this an awful lot. And I studied it a bit. So let me give your audience some general background. And it's a mistake to start as late as eighteen sixty six eighteen sixty eight let's start with that landmark opinion by the court of chance story of New York. And I'll tell you why we're starting there because Lincoln's attorney general thanks, this is the key a passage and he in eighteen sixty two link attorney general bait to nineteen sixty two says people who are born in. In America of alien parents are ses and the United States that's an eighteen sixty two responding to dress Scott, and he cites this is actually what he says in as -pinion of the attorney general in eighteen sixty two I am quite clear in the opinion that children born in the United States of alien parents are citizens the United States. And then he says, I might sustain this principle by referring to a long standing principles of English common law that apply in modified for me United States. But all this has been well done by assistant, vice chancellor Stanford in the case of Lynch v Clark and an to be this case of Lynch v. Clark. It's a New York opinion eighteen forty four and Lincoln's attorney general as this is the keep. Decision. And here's what that decision says. I'm quoting basically, every everyone born in night states is a citizen with quote. The exceptions are the children of ambassadors or deem to be born within the legion of the foreign country gears that the the bottom line payoff upon principle. Therefore, this is the judge in eighteen forty four. I can entertain no doubt that by the law. The United States every person born within the United States, whatever the situation of his parents is a natural born citizen no-one inquires further. No one asks whether his parents were citizens or foreigners. It's enough that he was born here. Whatever the status of his parents. And again, he's made in exception for children of foreign ambassadors, and he's also appealing to English rules that say, oh when there's a foreign army that's occupying territory that might be different as well. So that's eighteen forty four long before. For all of this dread. Scott comes along and says, oh blacks can't be citizens. Even if they're born in the United States and Bates and Lincoln. Thanks dreads guide is a wrong decision. And when he and he's elected presence, and he has his attorney general way in in eighteen sixty two ten opinions of the attorney general at three twenty eight and it's just a one paragraph discussion by dates he follows it up. I'm later on this. And it's called the question is citizenship. This is the issue quote citizenship of children born in the United States of alien parents. He says it's clear is obvious that eight hundred sixty two can. And then he followed it up with a longer opinion later in eighteen sixty two. But then the question can the executive just do this on his own supreme court said one thing can't executive on his own say something else. Remember that question audience because it's going to be the question for Trump because the supreme court that will weighed in on my side at later in our conversation. And so that's why you get the statute in eighteen sixty six which as you've just heard says anti quote all persons born in the United States and not subject to any foreign power. Excluding Indians, not taxed are hereby declared to be says the United States, so that's an eighteen sixty six statue. But by their statute, can you modify the rule of dread, Scott, which seemed to say, otherwise that blacks can't be sense. And so then you have the first intense of the fourteenth amendment. That's a codification of the Civil Rights Act of eighteen sixty six which is a codification of what bait said, which is a codification of what the New York court a chance we said in eighteen forty four which goes back to all sorts of English principles to say as a general proposition. Even if your child of aliens, you are a citizen, and and and then talk about the cases that are AB decided there after that confirm all of that with two basic exceptions in. In america. One is children of diplomats and the other is tribal Indians who basically are in a quays. I saw version of separate enclave in the eighteen sixties. And and then in England, there was an exception doesn't really matter to America at all the case, of course, cases talk about which is what happens if you have people born behind enemy lines when there's actually an occupying. Army the way, the United States occupied Germany say after World War Two, but but that's not really relevant today by that. And that's what the cases are going to say. And no one in the reconstruction congress clearly said, anything otherwise, and the an what I campus is all of this is this was the settled understanding by the Republican lawyers before the fourteenth amendment adopted. It's based on Bates was basing on this eighteen forty four case that he explicitly references earlier you have argued that the reconstruction Kong. Grice people did think differently and saw broader exceptions than just the children of diplomats travel Indians. And you have pointed to a statement by Senator Jacob Howard. This will not of course, include persons born in the United States who are foreigners aliens, I'm reading from the whole quote who belonged to the families of embassador or foreign ministers accredited to the government of the United States, but will include every other class of persons. So that's the quotation from Senator Howard, tell us why you think that that supports broader exceptions for birthright citizenship than professor Amar suggested. Well, I think it's important the broader restrictions because Senator Howard and Senator Trumbull who is the chairman of the Senate Judiciary committee and many others said so no one in the reconstruction congress said that the fourteenth amendment adopted English common law citizenship, in fact. It could not have adopted the English common law of citizenship for one very of-. Significant reason the English come love citizenship was rejected by the declaration of independence. Let us not forget. The in Blackstone. The there is no such thing as citizenship. Blackstone says that anyone born within the protection of the king owed perpetual allegiance perpetual, allegiance as a debt of gratitude to the king. And that was perpetual subject ship. There was no citizenship. Blackstone. Does not use the word citizen and his four volume treatise on the English common law. So that in the declaration of independence. It says that the American people have absorbed their allegiance to the British crown. This was a by elation and rejection of the English common law. It is impossible to believe that the American founders were adopting the English common law is the basis of American citizenship at the same time that they were forgoing or absolving themselves of allegiance to the British crown. In other words, they were rejecting the English common law. They base American citizenship on consent the consent of the government. And the declaration says that the just hours of government are derived from the consent of the governed, and no one could be a ruled or become a citizen without his consent. I think it's very very very clear and the framers took a consent very very early. Excuse me. Very seriously. Contract social compact basis of government was the idea that suffused the entire founding. Now, the ideal that dreads Scott a decision rejected a use solely as the basis of citizenship is simply wrong, the reason that chief Justice Tani said the blacks of African descent could never be citizens was the fact that in his opinion, the declaration of independence didn't include blacks of African descent, and because they were not included in all men are created equal. He said. They were not part of the people who framed in ratified the constitution, and he was mistaken in that regard because five states allowed free blacks to vote in the election that ratified the constitution in the descent in the dread Scud case pointed this out that an historical error that tiny made that free blacks did in fact participate in the election that ratified the constitution. So they were part of the people who ran a fight the constitution. And this was a massive error that a tiny made. But it wasn't the dread Scott decision that repealed UCLA. It was the declaration of independence that reject the common law basis for for for citizenship in no one in the reconstruction convers ever suggestion that the British Day-Lewis Kamla was to be the basis of America. In citizenship and this business about consensus. There have been a consensus among lawyers and legislators from time to time, for example, that thought that a separate but equal was the law of land and should be law land that doesn't make any difference. We believe that at one time when we no longer believe, but we see was bad constitutional law at the time, and it is still bad constitutional law. And I think birthright citizenship was never intended to be part of the fourteenth amendment. And it should not be part of the fourteenth amendment today. It was never intended by the framers to be part of the fourteenth amendment. And and I think it should be a repeal today. Most modern industrial nations have rejected a birthright citizenship England in nineteen Eighty-one stopped. It's a birthright citizenship because. As Blackstone said. Birthright citizenship was apart of futile. Inheritance? It was the relation of master in servant, and it was not suitable for a Republican form of government. And I think our framers of real that by the way. Senator Trumbull who is the author again of the civil rights active eighteen sixty six said that he on of using the word allegiance instead of in in the civil rights activating sixty six, but he found that it was a term of art under the English common law, and that there was such a thing under the common law as temporary allegiance that we would if he had used that word in the Civil Rights Act. We would have had to give given birthright citizenship to those who were only temporary in the country. Under the British the English common law those who had temporary allegiance instead of perpetual, allegiance. Those who were born under the protection of the game had perpetual allegiance, by the way, which could never be put off or or canceled in any any way without the permission of the gang. But those who are in the country. In the country temporarily had temporary allegiance and their children. We're not birthright subjects of the king. But if we had used that language in America in the Civil Rights Act of eighteen sixty six those people who were temporarily in the country would have been given birthright citizenship and Senator Trumbull said we had no, right? And we had no need to give those people mirth right citizenship. And that's why he didn't use the word allegiance in the Civil Rights Act. And that's the same reason that the framers of the fourteenth amendment didn't use the word allegiance in the fourteenth amendment. They chose the word jurisdiction jurisdiction was the Republicans substitute for the word allegiance which occurred in in the common law, and it was a rejection of birthright subject shift a futile relic that was. Rejected by the declaration of independence, and the American framers it should be recognized that birthright citizenship birthright subject ship as that appears under the common law has to be gotten rid of. Thank you so much for that. So just to review some of the terms the important terms. We're talking about professor Miller. You just argued that use Solis which is citizenship determined by place of birth as opposed to use sanguine, which has citizenship determine by blood was embraced bud English common law in the idea of birthright citizenship or subject ship. And you say that that notion was repudiated by the declaration of independence, which instead based citizenship on the consent of the people professor Margie response to all of his arguments. Well, there's some similarities overlap between us. And I'll go through a are vet. None of that comes close to establishing this utterly outlandish proposition that people born in America of alien parents are somehow not citizens. Here's here's some common ground that the rules in England are a little different in England. Basically, they don't at the time of the founding or even at the time of the civil who are they have an idea being subject to the king. And not a quite an American idea. Citizenships in England, they have an idea of perpetual, allegiance, the way you're born. You can't change that just like, you can't divorce your parents, you you can't unilaterally dissolved the that that the tie to the the king under whose protection, you're born. We Americans I agree with the professor don't leave that we think that you actually can renounce your. Mm your allegiance to the crown for example, become Americans. So that's different hat. Not question though. Whether this birthrights isn't chip is whether you can renounce your birthright, whether you're a boy in the United States of American parents born in the United States of foreign parents or actually naturalized and then later choose to to to go to some other country. Go back to your original country. It's your right to be a citizen, and you're allowed to repudiate that and the English don't let you do that. So that's a difference. But doesn't answer the question whether it's your birth right to be a citizen on the day, you're born. And so as to consent of the govern- consent is given by the fourteenth amendment itself by the Civil Rights Act of eighteen sixty six itself, by repeat the statutes thereafter, including one in nineteen fifty two saying, it is the policy of the United States that people born here. Under our flag, our citizens, whether their parents are aliens or not and in that way, it's a little bit like the English rules. Although there at you can renounce it, and it sense yet not subject to. But but then the question is under what conditions did we the people grant that consent? And the answer is yes, we have to look at this subject to the jurisdiction now out a comeback to that in just a second. Here's a second area. Greenman dread. Scott said some preposterous things and it was wrong. We're in agreement about that. Now, let's go through actually again, what Americans say on this in eighteen forty four this at landmark New York. This decision says the following the policy of our nation. That's America has been to bestow the right of citizenship freely and with liberality unknown to the old world. We're going to be different than the old rule. We're gonna give citizenship. More broadly and just to repeat. Know what here's the sentence. I can't entertain a no doubt says the judge in eighteen forty four that five law the United States every person born within the dominion in legion of the United States. Whatever the situation of his parents is a natural born citizen no-one inquires further no-one asked. Whether it's parents were citizens or foreigners is enough that he was born here. Whatever the status of his parents. And remember he had earlier made an exception for children of embassador and in that he's barring from English law. But he's saying it's different from English law has it citizenship. I'm an and it is renounce -able. If you want to be that's eighteen forty four. Then eighteen sixty two bait says it's clear he says quite clear, it's hard for the language to be English language to be more there that the citizens warning nights of alien parents. I'm never been naturalized are native born citizens the United States. There is nothing in eighteen sixty six. That has been quoted on the other side that repudiates any of that. And fact that that the quotations that are used are taken out of context, they're actually miss rendered a word is stuck in a word or that even the national review, actually, which published some of this stuff actually fact away from and repudiated show me a clear statement saying all of that Ron Bates is wrong, Lincoln's attorney general was wrong eighteen forty four was you will not find it. And then they are later cases there there man, Mark opinions by the supreme court von Kim, arc Plyler versus DOE that reaffirm that subject to the jurisdiction basically means alien armies. At children embassador 's and native Americans living in tribes, and I wanna say to other points because they actually are key about the his original intent in the eighteen sixties hair are racist out there in the eighteen sixties, they say now, wait a minute this birthright citizenship, do you mean that a child of a Chinese person who's not able himself to be a citizen? But there can't if born in the United States is a citizen and the framers the fourteenth amendment says. Yes, that's exactly what we mean. The status of the parent isn't communicate to the child. So even though the parent is not and cannot be US citizen the child born of that parents will be at US Edison under the rule that we're proposing. So they try to play the race card about gypsies the Roma and Chinese and explicitly the Republican Saint no where with Bates where would that eighteen forty four? Ruling second. There are people in the United States in the eighteen sixties who actually are in effect illegal aliens. Dread. Scott says talk about two things one whether free blacks can be citizens. I agree with professor earlier that they can. And that the descent is right in dread. Scott, and and blacks voted for the constitution and fight it. On places like Bunker Hill. I'm but now talk about slaves, not free blacks, but slaves. Slaves. The entire purpose of the fourteenth amendment is to ensure the core purpose that children of slaves are American citizens dread. Scott says if you're sending from slaves you can't be an American citizen the fourteenth amendment says in the Civil Rights Act of eighteen sixty success on the contrary, whether you're born slaves or not if you're born in America, you're an American citizen now some of the slaves that they're talking about or technically here illegally smuggled into the United States in violation of a congressional statute passed in eighteen of seventh. It's the act of March second eighteen seven that prohibits slave importation from Africa, and yet people were imported from Africa in violation sleighs in violation of that conservative estimates put that number in the tens of thousands. They're tens of thousands of infect illegal aliens in America. There were slaves smuggled in and it's. Utterly clear that the children of those illegal aliens were citizen is by the Civil Rights Act of eighteen sixty six and by the fourteenth amendment and so out now have two different example. And by the way, some of the people who are illegally here in the United States today were actually the product of out sex trafficking in international slavery regimes and the likes of even today there are unfortunately people in America who are here. I'm they brought here perhaps illegally, but their children are every bit as much if they're born in the United States citizens the United States as children of slaves in eighteen sixties, so two different examples where they clearly understood that the status of the parent would not visited upon the child. And that's what Bates and and eighteen forty four says, we don't ask about the parents. We may not even know the parents are a foundling born in Kansas and you find the founding in one day. Old and there's umbilical cord sticking out. You don't know what the person's parents are? But you know, they were born in the United States. We don't ask about the status of the parent, whether they're gypsies and Kathy US, citizens or Chinese people a Chinese aliens who can't be United States citizens. Their children are two designs whether or not whether unless they're the children of diplomats and and children of ill of slaves some of whom were here illegally. It doesn't matter if they're born in the United States, they are says the United States this core meanings of the fourteenth amendment and the civil rights of eighteen sixty six and I promise you the fats. Exactly, what the court says in great detail, the United States Supreme court in a case called Wong, Kim arket goes through and and maybe an annex go round out in a quote, you passage after passage after passage from one Kim arc basically saying subject to the jurisdiction. Just means. Basically alien armies children of diplomats and their end they appeal for all of that to English law. They English lies apply. Wholly by in these respects. Actually, it's a we call them citizens. Not subjects you can renounce not like Britain. But in other ways, actually, yes, we are barring the law of the soil. If you're born I'm in America, you're citizen, unless your parents were diplomats you're born behind enemy lines occupying army or you're a member of an Indian try like his own separate nations within the United States. And and that's what subject to the jurisdiction means has worn. Cam are the more modern supreme court has endorsed this in a case called Plyler versus DOE. So the text of the constitutions clear. The history of the constitution is clear. The precedents are clear they all point in the same direction owned, by the way, even if all of that were wrong. They're statutes more recent lay than eighteen sixty six say the same thing statutes. For example, in nineteen fifty two after one Kim arc is on the bucks. Saying here's subject to the jurisdiction means saying that I'm and the idea that president unilaterally could disregard these statutes and the constitution. This is an extremely eccentric position boarding on the crackpot. Thank you very much for that. Professor ruler. Of course response to a number of points accumulated, including I e said that the quotation from Senator Howard that you've relied on was also relied on by Michael Anton in the national review. He's the spokesperson for the national Security Council on whom President Trump relied and accused suggesting that there was a or inserted into quote changed its meaning the quotas. This will not of course, include persons born in the United States who were foreigners aliens. And then I suppose around town inserted an or who belonged to the families embassador. And then then professor. Amore also introduced the one KMart case. So your thoughts about why that case which applied to the children of legal aliens does not apply to the children illegally lands would be great. Actually, I'm the one who originally insight is the or in quote because I thought it clarified it. And I still think it's a the or bracketed or is justified. I wrote a response to the editors of national review, which they posted a justifying the use of the or using the Jacob Howard's of words. Because after all he said that the reason that he didn't repeat the language of the Civil Rights Act saying Indians, not taxed are excluded. Was that he regarded Indians as foreigners. So in that statement that he made he resisted including the Indians it in the fourteenth amendment language because he regarded them as foreigners in having a foreign nation. He said we've always thought of Indians as being members of foreign nations. And so they were part of the foreigners that that he included there. I gave a plenty of other evidence, including the Civil Rights Act of eighteen sixty six in which he said, those who are subject to a foreign power where are are not eligible for birthright citizenship. I don't. See how you can get any clearer than that. But I think that. Professor Amar would reasons the fourteenth amendment is somehow repealing the Civil Rights Act the bay sixty six because the civil rights activities, they sick doesn't fact exclude those who are subject to a foreign power from earthrights citizenship. So that people who come here illegally are obviously subject to a foreign power and the Civil Rights Act to excluded them from a birthright citizenship. And now he would say fourteenth amendment includes them in birthright citizenship. So you have an incompatibility between the fourteenth amendment in the Civil Rights Act of eighteen sixty six and I don't know of anyone who makes that argument. Now, I don't know what. Statute, the professor is referring to. But I don't believe that. There is any case on point that says except in dicta that says as the children of illegal aliens are considered to be. Citizens of the the United States. I don't think there is a case. And I don't think the player versus though does say that after all the children that were involved in that case were in fact, illegal aliens until I don't think that cases is on. Let me just say something about one Kim arc the argument in one KMart. We have to remember that his parents were legal Ilian 's they were in the country legally, but they were not eligible they could never become citizens of the United States. They were barred from. Citizenship by treaty and by statute, and they profess allegiance to the emperor of China. So. One Kamarck was born in the United station the question of whether or not he was the citizen of the United States is now Justice great who wrote the majority decision. There said that the fourteenth amendment was premised on the English common law, but his his argument there was a perfect non secretary. He said this that the framers of the constitution were perfectly aware and had studied the English common law. And of course, everyone concedes that the legal education at the time largely consisted. Of studying English common law. So that's no surprise, but because they had studied English combo. We must read the constitution in the light of English common law. And at a percent makes no sense. Madison himself had said that whatever in the declaration of independence, whatever in the common law that contradicts the principles of the declaration of independence was repealed. By the principles of the revolution of Ari argues that burnt birthright subject ship is utterly incompatible with the principles of the declaration of independence. So there is no notion that birthright subject ship re survived the principles of the declaration have been Bennett. As a matter of fact, chief Justice Fuller's dissent in one Kamarck made precisely argument, and in fact, it used to be a principal. Institutional construction prior to one Kamarck that the principles of the revolution. Repealed anything in the the English common law that was inconsistent with those principles that I think. That principle official construction should have prevailed in the one Kim markes the idea of for example, Justice, great noted that. The was in the British English Kamla only talk about subject ship, but he said something utterly fantastic. That for our purposes subject and citizen were convertible terms subject in citizen were convertible term. So that wherever we see subject in the common law. We can read citizen. Nice admit that this this kind of language that citizen and subject or convertible terms in previous years in centuries long ago might have been language that would have flattered kings. But in a Republican form of government. This is simply outrageous to speak in those terms Madison would never have. Said for example, that there's no difference between l'enarchie and rebutting Thomas Hobbes, for example, might have agreed that since a monarchy of sovereign and Republicans sovereign. There's no essential difference between the two forms of government. But the framers of our constitution new well, the difference between monarchy's and republics. So the idea that. Citizens and subjects would convertible terms is an absolute outrage, and that alone should give us pause in perhaps lead us to rethink whether along Kim arc should be repealed. As I think it should be repealed that chief Justice fuller in that case had by far the superior. Superior argument. It was six to two billion. But the majority opinion was so fraught with difficulties that, I think that needs to be revisited and the idea that the fourteenth amendment rest upon the English common law is an outrageous misreading, not only of the debates. The reconstruction debates, but the constitution itself, and I think. This lot not to stand. MR if you could tell us more about the one Kim, arcade while you think that it covers the children of illegal aliens. Also, tell us about this approved courts other relevant case long quitting Rios Pineda case from nineteen eighty five which assumed in dicta, the parents of two US born children were US citizens Plyler in DOE where all nine justices agreed that no possible distinction with respect to the fourteenth amendment. Terrific Shen can be drawn between resident aliens whose entry into the United States was lawful resident aliens enter was awful and finally on the case law. Tell us why you began by saying that you think that all nine justices at the current cord would hold that birthright citizenship extends to the children of illegal aliens. Thanks, jeff. So let me just I think professor earlier realizes that. He has to basically say that the supreme court. Didn't know what it was talking about him on Kim arc end. He's. Right. Sometimes the supreme court gets it wrong about not here. I think you just read you one payoff passage in the reason it didn't get it wrong. Jeff is because Kim Arkansas saying the exact same thing that New York Chancery Court said in eighteen forty four that Lincoln's attorney general said in eighteen sixty two and the Republican party. It's the same Lincoln Republican party are saying in congress in eighteen sixty six unless you missed read their quotes. Okay abate, and the Repub Republican party, basically is a pretty cohesive party back then, and and and they have a certain view they understand at England is different from America in a couple of respects. But when they say citizens are the same subject, they mean for the purpose of birthright citizenship, not for everything else. Yes. Citizens vote in a Republican subjects in oh. Inherent, crowns. Yes. I'm. In in Britain. You can't basically divorce the king you can't divorce a Britain. Even if you want in America, you can leave those are key differences between the American Republic and the Brit in relevant to the question at hand. Which is are we gonna have in fact law of the soil like Britain or law of blood like a lot of European countries? And what the judge in eighteen forty four cents is we're gonna have citizenship not subject to but citizenship and announce -able by soil, and that's what bay says in eighteen sixty two. And that's what the Republicans say in their statute in eighteen sixty six and the constitution. They're saying the same thing not different things on professor earlier. I don't think they're saying different things. They're saying the same thing. And that's what won Kim arc says. Well, they're all of peace and an end and repeat the two differences. You can renounce your citizenship. That's what makes Erika great and. Your citizen and not subject, but it's a birth right idea with the same exceptions as the English half for ambassadors and concrete, armor, armies and America at one more. We've got tribes within our our country or quasi sovereign nations in a way that Britain doesn't here's what want him arc sets after I could a lot enough. I'm the fourteenth amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule a citizenship by birth within the territory. So you say, yes, they are saying we're applying English rules to be American context. And so just as we're gonna have a new exception for Indians, we're gonna call it citizenship and not subject could we're gonna make it renounce -able. But in this deep point about law of the soil rather than law the blood where firming the eight the fourteenth amendment affirms the ancient and fundamental rule of citizenship by birth within the Tara. Tori, including all children here. Born of resident aliens with the exceptions. Or qualifications as the old rule that self of citizens of foreign sovereigns or their minutes. Addicting children foreign sovereigns that would be kings, or their ministers or board on foreign public ships, or of enemies with an enduring hostile occupation. As part of our territories, that's all the Blackstone references all the rest, and with the additional with a single addition exception to just like the Brits in their subject here citizen. There is not renounce -able. Here is just like the Brits with the same exceptions for foreign diplomats and company. Armored armies with the single additional exception of children of members of Indian tribes owing direct allegiance to their several tribes the amendment in clear words and manifest. Intent includes the children board with inventory, the United States of all other persons of whatever race or color every 'em every citizen or sub. Of the country while down the side here is within allegiance while blah, blah. So it's we don't distinguish between children of aliens and children's of citizens and that was asked in the fourteenth amendment debate about the Chinese you say, so so watch him arc is saying the same thing as the Republicans were saying in eighteen sixty six unless you miss, you know, interpret what they're saying. Which is the same thing that Bates said, which is the same thing that this eighteen forty four tastes said building on English authorities. So and then the supreme court of the United States has repeatedly reaffirmed this later on in cases, like Plyler versus DOE as you mentioned in in the modern era. So. And the the reason I feel so you Jeff you asked me why feel so confident about the justices is because I did go to law school. I'm locked trained. And I'm in a regular conversation with the justices. I'm actually having a conversation tomorrow with wind them about something I did testify for Brett Cavanaugh. I'm a democrat. He's a Republican constitutional is not partisan. I've co authored with a clerked for one person who was on the supreme court now Steve Brier my co author. In a recent piece in time magazine dot com. Fallibility who clerked for another supreme court Justice, Antonin Scalia. He's a Republican, I'm democrat. But but I'm happy to give anyone. No, I'm happy to take any action. You've got for me. We we can we can put a nice big bet on this. Because the precedents are clear. The text is clear. The original intent is clear the New York Times had an op-ed by the preeminent scholar of reconstruction two days ago on this topic is names Eric phone or he wrote a Columbia, professor former presently organization of American stories, he's by acclamation the preeminent scholar of reconstruction. And he says this is clear it's not ambiguous is clear. That's what Eric Fellner says that what constitutional scholars who teach in law schools and are quoted by the supreme court sided by the supreme court followed by the justices from Michael McConnell and an. Steven Calabresi on the right to. Larry tribe, and Walter Dellinger, former solicitor general the United States on on the left, I know of no constitutional law trained person. Actually cited in law school in a law school because if you know, we actually we do this thing called law day in and day out. We know we had read cases and in. It's not a fair reading the case to say because they say, you know, subjects and citizen of the same thing that they mean it for all purposes, they mean for the purpose at hand, which is birthright. Entitlement. They don't mean it for republicanism or for renounce renounce ability when a judge so that's what we do. And on saying is I'm you know about as confident about this as I've been about anything else. I happened cited thirty seven times by the United States of pre Incorp by justices across the spectrum probably more by the conservatives than by the liberals. I clerked for a liberal as Steve Rier. So so the precedence are clear, they're not in doubt their descents. But those are dissents the text is. But what does it mean to be subject to the jurisdiction? It means. Actually, you're born in the United States. And if you misbehave apply laws against to your. We may not know let foreign country your parents came from as you've been know who your parents are. You might be a foundling. We are not gonna have DNA tests about who your real father is biologically or not if by the way, if we did that would be a can of worms because all sorts of people aren't necessarily the via logical children of the person that they think they are the father that they think they have. So I'm a nice clean clear rule. If you're born in the United States under the flag, you're citizen with these two exceptions from England conquering armies and foreign diplomats and one third to deal with a unique American station, which we don't have anymore, which is tribal Indians. Text is clear. The original intent is clear the history from eighteen forty four on is clear and the president are clear. Well in light of the new supreme court decision that could lead states to legalize sports gambling. I don't know whether we the people can facilitate bets on not going to take that risk. But I will say that at the end. This fascinating debate is time for closing arguments. And professor earlier the first one is to you in just a few sentences can you sum up for our audience? Why you believe that the president does have the authority by executive order to end birthright citizenship. Well, I happened to be one who does not think that the president has thority to issue an executive order to imports right citizenship. But I think he's imitating for trying to imitate President Obama who said when congress won't act I have a pen in a phone to act in their stead. But I don't think President Obama ever acted constitutionally with his executive orders, and I don't think the president can act institutionally here either. But I think congress connect my statute to end birthright citizenship, and I think that they should. But I must say that professor. Amar's last. Are you? It was what Madison might call an ingenious sophism, plenty of members of the reconstruction congress wasted a lot of breath talking about allegiance when they talked to in terms of jurisdiction is not enough to take up the latest edition of blunt Black's law dictionary and look under the entry of jurisdictions of figure out what the framers fourteenth amendment met by jurisdiction. They said plainly what they met my jurisdiction in. It is not what professor Amar's says they met by jurisdiction. They meant something specific not owing allegiance to any other country being under the complete jurisdiction of the United States. And when Justice great said that the fourteenth amendment adopted, the the English common law citizenship or subject ship. He said, what known member of the reconstruction congress ever said, I read the debates more than once, and there's not a single member of the congress who ever said that we are simply adopting the English common law of of subject ship or were drawing a bun the Inca when we're converting the English law subject ship into the American law of citizenship. That was never the case. And I don't think you could ever make the argument that that was the case when a Justice gray said look one Kamarck when he comes of age of he wants to ex patriot Tim self back to China. He is free to do. So did he not understand that XP to each was against the English common law that he was contradicting himself and he contradicted themselves. Many many times. In his opinion, when he said that the fourteenth amendment adopted, the English common law, all we have to do is substitute citizens for subject and. And everything is going. Well, the opinion is simply absurd. It's absurd is in the opinion ever was almost as absurd as dread, Scott. Although dress cut opinion, of course, is to vicious to. To be merely described as absurd, but one Kamar is just as contradictory unless say, and you can't simply rely on that opinion for any anything. Good and I disagree. The one Kim arc opinion is expansive. But it's not expansive enough to say that it is a thority enough to include the children of illegal immigrants. In a two being -cluded as American citizens. I just do not believe that there has been dicta. Yes. But no case on point. Thank you so much for that. Professor more last word to you. Professor earler helpfully made clear that he thinks that congress could end birthright citizenship by statute, but the president could not do. So by executive order, tell us why you believe that. In fact, the constitution compels recognition of birthright citizenship. Great. So let's not lose track of that very important in helpful point that he did make that what President Trump is proposing flatly unconstitutional. That's actually the bottom line. Even though he and I disagree on other things. I actually think that some of this stuff is actually very very well saddled end, and it's kind of you know, rounder versus flatter. There's on some of the stuff, that's actually my view. And there are lots of things that are fairly debatable among constitutional scholars and judges. But this actually in. General isn't that close? But even for that. Okay. Even agreed that what President Trump is proposing. Professor, and I are in agreement that that's flatly unconstitutional. President can't do this, you know, heavily good. Thank you for that, very important. A note of of of agreement two final points, just say subject to the jurisdiction kid of an illegal alien in is possibly subject to the jurisdiction of some other country that he's never been to never will be to m maybe okay. But then that would be true of an illegal alien to not just an illegal alien. So if the test is somehow is there any other country that that could possibly reggae you born at dual citizen or something. And that makes you now not an American citizen because let's imagine your parents are legal aliens less. Imagine actually that their permanent residence their green card holders. But at you are on the day, you're born not just born in American under the fourteenth amendment, but you also might inherit adore citizenship from Canada or England or some other jurisdiction. So so if he says off subject jurisdiction means you can't either has to be no other foreign government possibly in the pitcher. Wow. That's a radical proposition. That's true. Not the children of illegal aliens, the children of legal aliens, not just stick people on student visas. Not just people are tourists, but actually permanent green card holders event while ou- while I'm and and now you see the clear contradiction between that and want him all our on his facts. And he says, oh the supreme court. They don't know what they're doing. And he's right. Sometimes they don't but. I'm not sure that it's his the pants doors box. Once you open. It can be limited. Just children of illegal aliens disadvantage of a very big and dangerous wedge that I think a squarely into long Kim art and the third point my final point is there is no I've read the debates about the fourteenth amendment two. I've written a bunch of books actually on the fourteenth amendment and not just this one-sentence. An I emphatically disagree with his account of actually what they say. And don't say and oh, by the way, Eric wonders on my side. And I'd rather have him than any other single person. And I actually think virtually all that reconstruction the story whom I know, and I know a lot of them, you know, with the on my said, here's the point their conversation. Doesn't began in eighteen sixty six they are building on what Bates has done in eighteen sixty two in their statutes in eighteen sixty six their amendment and. Dates his building on an eighteen forty four case that he explicitly references that is based on English rules of soil. So all this stuff about English royalists. You might not like it professor early. You might think it collapses subject witnesses and ship, but on the relevant question, actually, which is not subject versus citizenship. And it's not whether you can renounce your birthrights or not that on the question. Basically, a we in America gonna be a law of the soil place or law the blood place eighteen forty four says we're allowed the soil place. Eighteen sixty two Bates where law the soil place at place. That's what the framers of the fourteenth amendment actually say again, and again, and again, even for children of Chinese people themselves can't be citizens, but the children of foreign in America, can and they're only three exceptions and two of them come from English law all the way back in Blackstone, conquering armies and foreign diplomats and we add third for American Indians. Because it's in tribes because this is a different regime. Thank you so much akilah Moore and Edward earlier for a extremely vigorous. But also extremely deep specific and eliminating debate about this hobby contested constitutional topic. Dear with the people listeners, you have been treated to what is indeed a deep dive into this important case, and your homework is to take one of these statutes or cases that was discussed read it and see if you agree with professor Amar, professor earlier and right to me to tell me what you think keel Amar Edward earlier. Thank you so much for joining. Thank you. My pleasure. Today show is engineered by Kim and Kilburn and produced by Jackie McDermott research was provided by Leric and Jackie McDermott. Please listen and subscribe to our companion podcasts live in America's townhall. This is the audio feed of our phenomenal shows in public programs both in Philadelphia and around the country. Scholars thought leaders from Michael Beschloss endorse Kerns Goodwin. Kenneth Starr, whom interviewing tonight and just a wonderful companion to we the people for those of you who are hungry for constitutional education. And and of course, if you like podcast tell your colleagues and leave us reading on apple or wherever you get your podcast and always people listeners these remember concussion concentrates on profit, we can't put on these podcasts. Do any of the really important indication work. We do unless you the people the people who are podcasts become members and support us and sign up and tell your friends until their friends and continue to write to me to tell you what you think of the castor engagement so meaningful, and I'm so honored that you're learning with me about the constitution every week. And I want you to show that passionate commitment by joining the national constitution center at our website. Please go to concentrate center dot org to learn more on behalf of national constitution center. Jeffrey.

US professor America congress President Trump England executive Ron Bates president United States Supreme court professor Amar Scott Kim arc Senator Jacob Howard New York supreme court Senator Trumbull Blackstone
Watergate

Conspiracy Theories

56:22 min | 2 years ago

Watergate

"At his trial quote one there was political pressure applied to the defendants to plead guilty and remained silent to perjury occurred during the trial in matters highly material to the very structure orientation and impact of the government's case and to the motivation russian and intent of the defendants three others involved in the watergate operation were not identified during the trial when they could have within by those testifying for almost a year woodward and bernstein had written countless words on the watergate scandal each article goal chipping away at the seemingly impenetrable wall of lies surrounding the white house woodward was proud of the work he and his partner had done but he was well aware that hadn't changed anything but from the moment mccord's letter was read before the court it was like a dam burst open as is the white house scrambled to work on yet another denial john dean began to sense that the tides were shifting when nixon asked him to put together a document on everything he knew about watergate. The thirty five year old lawyer suspected that he was about to become the scapegoat for the entire cover up on april seventeenth. John dean informed the president that he had begun cooperating with the u._s. Attorney's office later that same same day nixon learned that along with dean his chief of staff h r haldeman and top aide john ehrlichman were being investigated for their roles in the cover up two weeks later on april thirtieth richard nixon addressed the american people from their television screens he once again insisted that he was innocent and had no knowledge of the involvement of anyone in his administration. Nevertheless due to the accusations he had found it necessary to accept the resignation of h._r. Haldeman john ehrlichman and john dean for the sake of maximum transparency consi he would also be appointing a new attorney general but by this point no declarations of innocence could stop what was coming on may seventeenth. The senate's newly formed watergate committee began a series of televised hearings into the break ins and cover up accusations lasting for over two weeks. The hearings were a cultural event. The likes of which the world had never seen the major t._v. Networks took turns carrying during the live broadcasts. Well p._b._s. Replayed the proceedings at night n._p._r. Aired audio of the hearings gavel to gavel on may eighteenth one day after the watergate hearings began nixon's new attorney general elliot richardson announced that he was disappointing an independent special prosecutor to investigate allegations of criminal activities surrounding watergate the special prosecutor would have the right eight to follow whatever leads they saw fat divulge their findings at their own discretion and could only be removed by the attorney general himself and short it nixon's ability to thwart or monitor. The investigation in any way was effectively blocked. The man richardson had selected for the role was was far from the neutral party that everyone had expected archibald. Cox was an attorney law professor and former solicitor general with a sterling durling record. He was also a staunch liberal democrat and a friend of many of the president's political enemies publicly nixon applauded applauded the attorney general's choice in promised his full cooperation with the investigation but privately he was furious in his memoirs he would state that quote. If richardson had searched specifically for the man whom i least trusted he could have not done better than archibald cox. The president didn't now found himself in the unprecedented position of being simultaneously investigated by both judicial and legislative branches and finally all america had taken notice almost one year earlier watergate headlines had elicited. I hi roles and apathy now. The entire nation was gripped by watergate fever according to the u._s. Senate within one month of the hearings an astonishing ninety. Seven percent of americans were aware of the scandal seventy. One percent of americans were falling the hearings through at least one media via format the hearings made stars of a number of politicians sam ervin the folksy democratic senator from north carolina who led the hearings hearings became famous for eviscerating witnesses without dropping his country lawyer mannerisms republican senator howard baker asked asked quote. What did the president know in win. Did he know it so frequently that it became permanently ingrained in the american lexicon an but the real stars were the line of nixon appointees who are called to testify most notably nixon's former special counsel john dean the young lawyer shocked the senate watergate committee with one stunning revelation after another he insisted that he had spoken to nixon in about the watergate cover up on more than thirty five separate occasions that the president had advance knowledge of payments to buy the watergate burglar silence silence and that he was willing to pay upwards of one million dollars to keep them from cooperating with prosecutors. Unfortunately dean didn't have have any documentation to prove his claims and as the only highly placed member of nixon staff who had turned state's witness against the president he had suddenly made himself a lot of enemies one after another the president's loyal lieutenants attempted to pin the entire cover up on him for a moment it seemed that watergate might forever remain an unsatisfying case of he said he said with the public forced to choose between nixon's word in in deans but there were still more revelations to come in the last week of the hearings brings a white house aide named alexander butterfield told senate investigators something that not even john dean new in february of nineteen eighteen seventy one nixon had installed a voice activated tape recording system in the oval office. The president had secretly been recording according every meeting and phone call he taken since before the watergate break-in somewhere in the bowels of the white house. There were tapes that could prove whether dean or nixon was lying. They could definitively answer what the president knew and when he knew it if they ever saw the light of day coming coming up the white house resist pressure to release the nixon tapes now back to the story in the spring of nineteen nineteen seventy-three america had reached peak watergate frenzy one study determined that eighty five percent of the population tuned in to follow follow the senate watergate hearings as the hearings drew to a close the committee's investigation uncovered the fact that nixon had secretly taped deep conversations in the oval office. The response was immediate. Both the senate committee and special prosecutor archibald cox requested that the white house turnover any tapes relating to watergate john dean and l. put together a list of specific dates in times of meetings that he believed would be compromising to the president on the evening of july twenty third both the senate committee and the special prosecutor's office received a written written statement that nixon would not be turning over any tapes. Archibald cox raced back to his office to prepare his response. The the next morning cox issued a subpoena for eight taped conversations that john dean had identified. The president once again refused to cooperate in a public address to the american people on august fifteenth. He explained his position by stating quote a much more important principle is involved lived in this question then what the tapes might prove about watergate. This principle of confidentiality of presidential conversations is at stake in the question of these tapes tapes. I must end. I shall oppose any efforts to destroy this principle which is so vital to the conduct of this great office. Virtually no no one bought the argument within days. Nixon's approval ratings plummeted to thirty one percent marking a thirty six percent drop rob only six months previously staunch nixon supporters were forced to admit that the president was hiding something whatever their political affiliations affiliate everyone wanted to hear what was on the tapes on october nineteenth with the deadline to respond to cox's subpoena fast-approaching approaching nixon suggested a compromise the white house would provide the special prosecutor's office with transcriptions of the pertinent tapes an a an independent third party would be allowed to review the audio tapes and would confirm that the transcripts were accurate after that the prosecutors would agree not to request the tapes again. If nixon's compromise wasn't bad enough his choice of third party made it an obvious ploy nixon suggested suggested john stennis a senator from mississippi who was technically a democrat but was a known nixon supporter. He was also famously asli nearly deaf unsurprisingly archibald cox refused the offer he announced that he would be informing the justice department that nixon in had refused to comply with the subpoena at last it seemed that president nixon had his back up against the wall but he was not going down without a fight eight the next day october twentieth would come to be known as the saturday night massacre according to the mandate of the the special prosecutor's office nixon could not fire archibald cox but he could get rid of his boss on saturday october twenty breath nixon called his attorney general elliot richardson in demanded that he fire archibald cox richardson refused and immediately resigned resigned in protest this man that the justice department second in command the newly appointed attorney general william ruggles house now held authority over the special prosecutor's office nixon proceeded to order ruggles house to fire cox like richardson. He refused and tendered hindered his resignation. Nixon moved on down the line to robert bork the solicitor general at last the president had found someone willing to follow his orders bork wrote the letter firing archibald cox bringing an end to the chaos nixon had rid himself of one enemy eh but his situation was now more dire than ever his flagrant attempts to influence the investigation had destroyed any question of his innocence on november seventeenth nineteen seventy-three nixon addressed americans in yet another desperate attempt to convince them of his innocence breath in the historic press conference. He stated the words that would ironically come to define his presidency. Let me just say that. I made eight mile mistakes but in all my years of public life i have never profited never profited from public service i earned every cent and in all of my years the public life i have never obstructed justice and i think that i say that in my years of public life that i welcome this kind of examination because people have gotta know whether or not their president's a crook well. I'm not a crook. I burned everything. I've got feelings of. Frustration and impatience pervaded the nation as nineteen seventy four dawned it had been six months since since the existence of the nixon tapes was revealed to the public get the content of the tapes was still being withheld but despite the lack of new discoveries the senate watergate committee had quietly continued its investigation in march their work led a federal grand jury to indict seven nixon's since top aides including john mitchell h r haldeman john ehrlichman and charles colson and while archibald cox had been removed moved the special prosecutor's office was still operational solicitor general bork appointed leon joe worsley to take over the investigation to war ski immediately followed in his predecessors footsteps by subpoenaing the white house for sixty four recordings. Nixon was still determined not to release. It's the audio tapes but after the backlash he'd faced for the saturday night massacre. He knew that he couldn't simply ignore the subpoenas on may first. I the white house released one thousand two hundred and fifty four pages of edited transcripts of the recorded conversations. The white house's summary summary of the documents argued that they would put an end to the accusation since quote in all of the thousands of words spoken even though they often are unclear unclear and ambiguous not once. Does it appear that the president of the united states was engaged in a criminal plot to obstruct justice but if the white house the truly believe this would remove the shroud over nixon's presidency. They were sorely mistaken rather than proving his innocence. The edited edited transcripts raised new questions about watergate at one point nixon discussed the prospect of raising a million dollars for hush money. Just as john dean had alleged there were veiled references to money laundering burglaries and a host of other activities that made nixon seem more like a mafia boss then a president aside from any illegal activity the transcripts simply made nixon look bad whereas nixon had once once been considered something about policy genius he now appeared self obsessed paranoid reckless in crude the pages were littered with so many instances of the phrase expletive deleted that it became a national joke. The only thing that transcripts didn't show was any concern about the country's country's best interest but while the contents of the transcripts were incredibly damaging what wasn't in them was possibly even more troubling in eighteen and a half minutes section of a conversation between nixon and haldeman from the monday after the break in was blank when asked what about the missing section white house chief of staff alexander haig city feared that it had been erased by some sinister force unsurprisingly unle many americans jump to the conclusion that the sinister force responsible for the scrubbed conversation was nixon himself the implication location was damning whatever was said in those eighteen and a half minutes had to be more damaging than anything the white house had already released but while the transcripts were plenty damaging neither jawara ski nor the senate watergate committee were satisfied with what they had they wanted wanted the unedited recordings originally requested if the tapes truly were consistent with the transcripts then nixon should have no problem turning them over nixon doubled down on his insistence that the tapes were protected under executive privilege but the supreme court disagreed on on july twenty fourth nineteen seventy four the court unanimously ruled that nixon had to turn the unedited tapes over to ski special prosecutor's accusers office follow. You're listening continues to the audio. You're hearing is from the so called smoking gun tape when of many handed over to the special prosecutor's office in late july. It was first released to the public on august fourth nineteen seventy four this time. The official story is pretty <unk> tough to dispute despite the poor audio quality the tape reveals a conversation between h r haldeman and richard nixon recorded in the oval office on june twenty third nineteen seventy-two just six days after the watergate break in haldeman broaches the topic by saying quote quote the democratic break in thing. We're back to the in the problem area because the f._b._i. Is not under control because gray doesn't and exactly know how to control them and they have their investigation is now leading into some productive areas and it goes in some directions. We don't want minute to go when nixon encourages his chief of staff to continue haldeman suggest using the c. i. aid shut down the f._b._i. Investigation russian quote the way to handle this now is for us to have walters call pat gray and just say stay the hell out of this. This is <hes> business this year. We don't want you to go any further on it. Nixon replies uh-huh after reviewing the plan he tells haldeman you call them. I'm in good good deal. Play a tough. That's the way they play and that's the way we are going to play it. The tape confirm arm that nixon had been involved in the cover up from the beginning. Whatever support the president still had on capitol hill immediately evaporated on the the evening of august seventh the republican leaders of the house and senate met with nixon at the white house and informed him that he faced almost certain impeachment the next day august eight nineteen seventy four sixty one year old president nixon gathered his cabinet in the oval office he began to weep as he informed his advisors and aides that he intended to step down the president continued to cry silently while camera crews were brought lights were assembled and makeup was applied just before nine o'clock. Nixon sat behind his desk and turn to face the camera for the last time. This is the thirty seven time i have spoken to from this office where so many decisions we didn't have been made that shape district of this nation each time i done so we'll discuss with you. Some matter that i i believe affected the national interest and all i have made my public life. I have always tried to do what was best for the nation. The president explained that while he had always hoped to complete his term in office he no longer had the political base in congress to make it worthwhile. I have never been a quitter to leave office before. My term is completed. It's hard to every instinct in my body but as president i must put the interest of america first america needs lead safe full time president and they full-time congress particularly at this time with problems we face home and abroad continues to fight through the months ahead burn my personal vindication what almost totally absorbed take time and attention of both the president and the congress in a period when our entire focus should be. I'm i'm the great issues of peace abroad and prosperity with other players from their own berbar. I probably sign the presidency see affecting at noon tomorrow. Vice president will be sworn in as president about our and this off so the next morning the disgraced thirty-seven president merged onto the south lawn of the white house after a final emotional speech to a staff he and his wife pat made their way to the presidential helicopter running broadly the extended ended both arms and spread his finger in avi assemble he had used a signal victory in vietnam nixon ducked his head and disappeared inside aside as the door shut moments later his staff and reporters watched as the helicopter lifted up off the lawn varying richard nixon over and away from the white house for the last time vice president gerald ford was officially sworn in as president president three hours after his predecessors departure in the east room of the white house after taking the presidential oath ford turned the cameras to deliver his first address as president quote my fellow americans our long national nightmare is over our our constitution works our great republic is a government of laws and not of men here the people rule but there is higher airpower by whatever name we honor him who ordains not only righteousness but love not only justice but mercy one month translator ford reveal that his reference to mercy had not been lip service on september eighth nineteen seventy four he pardon nixon of any and all crimes committed during his presidency. He claimed that this was necessary quote to firmly shut and seal the book doc on watergate in the immediate wake of the pardon. Most americans reacted with indignant fury for two years as the watergate scandal and investigation had consumed the nation and now and then he felt that there would be no justice the unpopular pardon would hamper for ford for the remainder of his term in nineteen seventy six. He lost the presidency to democratic challenger. Jimmy carter well richard. Nixon was never ever prosecuted for his role in watergate. Many of his top aides and advisors were by the end of the senate and justice department investigations sixty nine people were indicted forty eight where ultimately found guilty in nineteen seventy three the washington post received a pulitzer prize is for woodward and bernstein's watergate coverage in two thousand and five thirty one years after nixon's resignation their source at the executive branch was finally revealed the mysterious figure known as deep throat was mark felt the associate director and second in command and at the f. b. i. during watergate but even with that revelation many believed the story of watergate still wasn't over next week. We'll continue our investigation into watergate by exploring some of the conspiracy theories surrounding the scandal conspiracy theory number one. The wife of nixon's former attorney general was kidnapped beaten and held prisoner for four days to keep her from blowing the whistle on watergate conspiracy theory number two the c._i._a. Engineered the crash of united airlines flight eight five fifty three which killed forty five people as part of the watergate cover up and conspiracy theory number three two you of the watergate burglars participated in the assassination of john f kennedy and nixon's reticence to release the white house tapes stemmed from. I'm not wanting the c. i. As role in the assassination to come to light within official story so obscured by lies and cover ups the truth about watergate is hard to unravel join us next week as we search for answers <music>. Thanks for tuning into conspiracy theories. These we'll be back wednesday with new episode. If you'd like to learn more about mark felts role in watergate and the counter intelligence tactics he employed in his meetings with bob woodward check out our episode on deep throat in espionage another podcast original you can find episodes of conspiracy theories and all all other park has two originals for free on spotify not only to spotify already have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like conspiracy theories for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream conspiracy theories. He's on spotify just open the app tap browse and type conspiracy theories in the search bar and remember the truth isn't always the best story and the officials story isn't always the truth. Conspiracy theories was created by max. Cutler is a production of cutler media in as part of the podcast or cast network. It is produced by max and ron cutler sound design by michael lanes ner with production assistance by ron shapiro and paul moller additional production assistance by maggie admire and freddie beckley this episode of conspiracy theories was written by andrew keller and stars kamali brandenburg and carter roy sure you listen to today in true crime arm every day it covers a different true crime event from history search and subscribe to today in true crime on spotify and anywhere you listen to podcasts.

richard nixon president watergate white house senate watergate committee archibald cox john dean prosecutor Senate Attorney watergate john ehrlichman elliot richardson america haldeman bob woodward senator
Ep. 095 - Theology Series (18) Sin

Christ is the Cure

16:30 min | 2 years ago

Ep. 095 - Theology Series (18) Sin

"Every welcome back the show this up, so ninety five and working you the series on schedule. Can you believe that episode eighteen theologist here is an I did it every other episode like I originally intended to how cool I'm going to try to keep this up because I really wanna finish the series and maybe move onto a monthly history series. But we'll see how this all goes and. I was reflecting on the anthropology episode, and I realize that may not been as most people liked by try to give you different perspectives there. So I apologize if that wasn't as in depth as you alike. The problem is a lot of things about anthropology in San. We've discussed quite a bit on the show already since I have to pick and choose what to speak on. I didn't want to just kind of going back to the same things regardless say, we're gonna talk about sin the doctrine of sin is drastically important. We talked about that several times as well in the show, but the first thing we need to do is define send now Ingram defines it as any failure to conform to the moral law of God in act, attitude, or nature, Paul ends defines it in such a way to, but also as sin as a transgression of the law of God. So he points out the mosaic law was to give man and understanding of God's high standard into know what God, expects so with that we find that San is not merely an act. But a principle within man or a man's nature. So there's a theme that we see echoed throughout scripture beginning in Genesis, God saw that think, clinician of man was evil from birth and things like that. And Huber's three thirteen read this being described as quote the power that deceives man leads them to destruction in, quote in various passage. Jesus imply such all evil proceeds from the heart, and he list off sends all these evils proceed from the heart and he repeats that phrase. And then Paul notes that quote, we were by nature children wrath like the rest of mankind than if to three. So even if we have an unbeliever who may not be committing simple actions or feeding sinful attitudes which is kind of a stretch to say in itself, the they're still centers in God's eyes because of their nature, which is also defined by its rebellion against God. John uses the term lawlessness to describe sin predominantly in first, John, if you look there, first John lawless, or lawless. This is a theme in it. But if Sinn is a transgression of the law, and we are in such a state, by nature than when we break the law, we are being lawless. We're committing lawless deeds. So I mean, the connections easy to make sin firstly committed against God, but it's also committed against men sinful acts against men are a violation of God's command. Send makes us classified as rebellious enemies of God. We are by nature enemies of God and not only that, but contains a notion of spiritual disability a great quote to summarize this part of this episode which I don't really know who came up with it. I know sprawl quoted at some point. I think, but basically says we are not centers because we send, but we send because we are sinners Jesus notes again, that also comes from the heart is part of, who we are in, you know, one day online at the do an in depth study on the heart, I think I recommended a book on that before. Regardless when reading reading up on further I wanted to quote, Herman Babnik from reform dog Maddux. If you haven't read that as a systematic, you're missing out, because it's it's weighty and it's good. And there's an abridged edition originally four volumes we can get abridged edition. But basically, I found this edition, be helpful in critical and shaping understanding of sin. I think that this is something we may not think about when we think about setting but he says this quote, all being per se, good, and all that is natural to the degree that it is. Natural is good evil. Can therefore only be something about the good. Santa's annot thing it could only be a privation or corruption of the good sin is a defect adept relation an absence of the good or a weakness imbalance. Just as blindness is a deprivation of site. The idea of sin, as privation, however, is incomplete sin is also an active corruption destructive power. He later notes that a quote in its operation and appearance sent is always a parasite of the good. It cannot create neither can destroy human love intellect him will and freedom or not removed. But redirect, the from God to the creature from seeking the true the good and the beautiful. Oil to considering the lies, as true pursuing evil as good and accepting slavery, as freedom in quote. So we could talk on that as for quite some time. But I like to go into the impudence of sin, primarily in this episode because of well, because variety discussion on it. So with every theology series episode, I am forced to condense and pick and choose which direction to go. And so as reminding everyone, that this is a no way exhaustive on the subject. But I hope that it's helpful some degree or to the degree rather that we actually discuss it. So original sin is the key word here, and it's the find as the central state or condition in which men are born sin comes from Adam. It is in every individual from the time of birth and it is the N word cause of all actual sins and the individual's life. This is where we into discussion of total depravity, which we discussed in the tulip episode part one which was episode eighty six but we'll restate that total depravity does not mean that everyone is deprived and his actions as they could possibly be or that everyone will participate. Partake in every form of sin, nor does it mean that an individual cannot do good acts. But simply means that the corruption of sin extends to all of the men in all parts of the man so that there is nothing within the natural man, that can give him merit in God's sight. So going back to back Nick on this. He has four points of summary on total depravity that I thought was worth reading through here. Number one, the doctrine does not mean that people all maximize their evil inclinations nor that. They're incapable of accomplishing many, quote natural goods. It only refers to the deepest inclination. The inter most disposition the fundamental directness of human nature and confesses that has not turned toward God, but away from him to our away from God. Those are the only two options, the human being is at the center of his or her being either good or evil. There is no third option, number two, although sin inhabits affects all of us, it is not a substance. It is not in cannot be the essence of humanity. We. We remain human after the fall, the doctrine of total corruption of human nature by no means implies that the sinful disposition that lies at the bottom of the human heart always erupts in the kind of deed that betrays clear hostility and hatred toward God and one's neighbour. There are very circumstances that intervene, and keep the dispositions from fully expressing itself, when go to leave as a summary of that point point three saying that humans are naturally incapable of any good does not refer to physical necessity, or fatalistic coercion sin does not erotic eight or will it changed the inclination and direction of the will we no longer want to do good. We now voluntarily do evil and that's a summary of that point point four. Finally, we must bear in mind that the scriptures and the church and the teachings will total depravity of humanity apply. The highest standard namely the law of God. The doctrine of incapacity for good is a religious confession before. God, we can do no good. We need to be renewed by God's spirit. And so we talked about that. Whenever we talked about tulip, but those points are a great summary of what depravity is not. So another key charm, here is amputated, which simply means to charge to one's account, and it relates a sin of Adam relates the rights of Christ you hear that the entertain of Christ rice, and this, and the invitation of Adam sent Romans five twelve is kind of the key tax on the points at the Senate entered the world, Adam and the views from here very bit. We have police are plagiarism from the fourth fifth century. He taught that God created every soul directly and thus that Seoul was innocent. Unstained no created soul had any direct relation to the Senate. Adam Adamson was just as bat or basically just a bad example. Only those acts people themselves committed were imputed to them. Imagine not die because he send but because of the law nature. He taught that Adam would have died, even if he had not send basically the council of Carthage and for eighteen AD condemned his doctrine, because it was contrary contradictory description, on a number of issues, the view of. Jacob Armenia similar to what could be called Simi plagiarism basically are are many as taught that man was not considered guilty, because of Adamson when people would choose to send though they could live righteously. That's when God would you to the sent to them and count them, as guilty are minis recognized and affect from Adamson, but not total depravity, now, the remnants trance seemed indicate a belief in total depravity, whenever I read the articles, I think some people disagree with that are many versus the remonstrance. I'm not really sure if there's a distinction there or maybe I'm reading the their statements incorrectly. But it seems to be that they believe told her depravity, but that premanent grace allows men to make a movement towards God. The federal view is the view that got entered into a covenant of works with Adam who is considered the federal head Representative mankind at a. Disobeyed. He brought suffering to the entire human race as the Representative the Augustinian view teaches that all humanity was a participant and Adam sim. So just as Levi, though, he wasn't born paid the ties to milk has a dick through Abraham. So a humanity was president and Adam when Adamson there for all humanity participated in the sense God holes to all humanity guilty God, holes, all humanity guilty, because all humanity is guilty. So from these different views, you can see that orthodoxy has always held total depravity, just how it occurs or original Senator Howard occurs, is a little bit different while play GIS and Jacob Armenia's positions were considered on biblical and challenged. So in terms of send the results send we see punishment. We see death spiritual death, physical death. And we talked about this, that man is captive to send slave descent that his mind is affected by sin his intellect is will everything affected by sin his disposition changes because of that nature within him. So without the question of what are the effects of the center, and I'm getting this from Poland's introduction of Christian are Christian, theology? I thought this was interesting enough to share here, but firstly in slave minutes. So one of the facts, sin enslaves, it becomes a habit, or even an addiction and it usually leads to another sin, send beget send. We see that very often whenever you send as you try to cover up the semi lying or than it, you just kinda spiral out of control into these other sins. And usually for Christian if you send you find yourself, if you do not repent, you find yourself going down this little wormhole, and moving away from God, because those two directions in life, as a Chris. The two directions in life as a Christian are you either moving towards God? Or you're moving away from God if you're insane, and you don't have confessed to repentance, sin, then you're not moving towards God. So where's the other direction, you can go regardless? You see this flight from reality. You see surpressed truth. That we see Romans fats can blind your thoughts change your thinking make you want to run away from reality. There's a denial sin, right? There's a shame that you feel sin self-deceit. We see this in terms of Jeremiah said that the hardest deceitful slippery or crooked. That's corrupt who can understand it. So we see this self-deceit in terms of really underlying problem whenever comes to being able to confess an unrecognised and his also insensitivity to send it produces instant N sensitivity, where basically there may be an initial understanding of sin a sensitive reckons ation of it, but then eventually as you keep going into it, or if you're not stirred, by the word in the spirit, you find yourself being kind of hardened and dole or apathetic, I guess, as a good way to put it self-centeredness is a hallmark of sin. Bre restlessness at produces a type of restlessness, Ericsson goes into the effects of Sen. on the relationship with others basically competition being one of them. It's basically this self-centeredness self-seeking that causes conflict with others makes his highly or extremely competitive against other human beings. We see the inability to empathize with others because of sin the rejection of thority inability to love in the way that we were intended to love. And we see that kind of rippling through now one thing before we wrap up. I know it's a short episode here. But one thing that I was reflecting on, was the unbelievers response to send we see our culture, get so offended by pointing out sin. We say something as a sin, and they get really offended. The question is, and I want everyone upon to this from a type of presupposition or approach to Romans one that says that they're suppressing the truth. Why is sin or calling something us in a -fensive to them believer? That's the question. This is a theological concept to theological, turn that presupposes a moral standard derived from God sin by definition as transgression of God's law. Why is such a theological concept so offensive to people that don't believe in the giver of that feels concept? I think that's a question that we should wrestle with a little bit more, and perhaps even ask them, why does a bother you that we're calling it sin to begin with. If you don't believe that sin is an accurate standard of morality, or immorality, rather is very interesting thought that I was having when I was reflecting on this, because the amount of individuals that get up in arms over this particular issue. The fact the reality is they have no basis for forgetting upset with it. If they truly don't believe that the concept of God's our God, God's morality or. Or God standard applies to them. Would it make sense, reality? Is that all men and their sin? Suppress the truth and know the truth. Therefore, they're whenever they're sin is called out. Guys have a great weekend. I know this is shorter episode. Will continue the series and a couple of weeks. I'm not really sure which topic we're going to next, but hope this was helpful in some degree or another to hear more about total depravity. You can go to mypillow episode, where I kind of breakdown to biz talk about depravity more there and as well as the human will talk about will there. So that's it. God bless you all.

Adam Adam Adamson Paul John lawless Jacob Armenia San Senate Huber Ingram Seoul Ericsson Sinn Levi Representative Jeremiah Santa Adam sim Nick Herman Babnik Abraham
With Hillsborough's 1-Cent Tax Ruled Unconstitutional, How Does That Affect The County's Transportation Issues?

Florida Matters

28:01 min | 4 months ago

With Hillsborough's 1-Cent Tax Ruled Unconstitutional, How Does That Affect The County's Transportation Issues?

"Welcome to florida matters. I'm bradley george. In two thousand. Eighteen fifty seven percent of hillsborough county voters approved a one cent sales tax to fund transportation improvements everything from sidewalks to better transit but after a long legal battle. Florida supreme court struck down the tax last month. Voters might have their say on a replacement tax in twenty twenty two but beth alden says fills boroughs transportation infrastructure. Can't wait. She's executive director of the hillsborough county metropolitan planning organization. Will beth. thanks again for for making Making time for us today We wanted to talk to you a little bit about transportation planning and funding Now that the the offer to transportation tax has been has been struck down in the county is dealing dealing with the ramifications of that but just to get started here in general hillsborough county before this tax and now that the tax has been struck down. How has transportation projects been been funded sure so transportation projects are largely funded with the gas tax. Which is collected at the at the pomp. And it's a it's a flat amount per gallon. It's does not vary by the cost per gallon of the gas and so As we have had more fuel-efficient vehicles over the years which is a good thing but it does mean that since this is a flat tax per gallon that the actual goes down. The value of the gas tax also has eroded against inflation over the years and so in florida is generally a low tax state. That's one of the things that were. We're kinda proud of here in the florida but it does mean that it. It can be very challenging to get adequate funding for some of the basic things. Local governments are responsible for and transportation. Infrastructure is definitely part of that and with the value of the gas tax becoming less and less over the years. it's very challenging the to fund our basic infrastructure so with this offer transportation tax. There was the promise of kind of maybe more steady stream of revenue to go toward various transportation projects. What were some of the projects that were in the pipeline when this when this tax was proposed and the county could have potentially move forward on if if the tax were upheld by the supreme court. One of the one of the reasons why the court had concerns about this tax is that it did set aside specific slices of the funding for specific types of projects. and so the funding would have been largely directed to some of those essential infrastructure pieces of our infrastructure that that everyone takes for granted so i would have been split about half and half between roads and public transit and the part that would go to the roads that was twenty six percent for managing congestion like having smarter traffic signals. Twenty percent for Maintenance and twelve percent for walking bike improvement fifteen percent could be spent on anything The supreme court's concern was that tied the hands of the county commission and under state law. it's up to the county commission to decide what the sales tax would get used for But we've seen all across the country that citizens support having these kind of very accountable guidelines for what funds should be spent on And so what may have been a selling point to. The citizens was list. Exactly what made it difficult Regarding the state law and where does this leave hillsborough county now in terms of trying to meet its basic needs not even transmitter expanding transit but as you said road maintenance Infrastructure for bikes and pedestrians. In the light without this funding white happens now right. Well it's it's really not a pretty picture so what we're looking at is about sixty percent of our roads will be resurfaced on time Bridges may overtime have to be closed because of lack of maintenance. We have probably hundred million dollars worth of repairs that the county will need to need to handle over the next twenty years and it's it's not clear where that funding is gonna come from And you saw for example the middle drive bridge get closed and there there are others on the list are spending on safety should be tripled if we want to make any kind of meaningful impact on our very high traffic fatality rate We've done we've done the math for you. Know what it takes to make the road safer and what it costs and we need probably thirty to forty million dollars a year. More in safety spending If we are going to bring down the death rate by thirty five percent over the next couple of decades and thirty five percent might get as close to to peer cities to Cities like us around the country are bus. System is so small that it reaches about the same number of jobs as the buses in boise idaho in chattanooga tennessee and those are places with five times fewer jobs than tampa bay. So it's very it's very serious. It's very real and our citizens have told us have have told the metropolitan planning organization Every time we do outreach for transportation plan and we're asking our residents in our business people what do you want in this community and they say in our top priorities are to fix these basic necessities and honestly we are not close to having the resources to cover those basics. You mentioned peer cities Two two tampa bay water. Some what are some of our pure cities how they approach some of these. These issues around funding transportation needs sure. Well there are most most other cities are in states that that do have an income tax And so they are not so reliant on things like sales tax gas tax to cover transportation funding. So i think that's that's one of our one of our biggest challenges because of the the downward pressure on municipal budgets. You know from the federal level kind of delegating to the state and the state's kind of delegating to the locals and we're kind of where the buck stops. You know someone is going to have to pick up the trash Someone is going to have to make sure that The teachers are paid And it all it all happens here. It's i guess. Hillsborough is unique to in that we have this this very large unincorporated part of the county That is that our population centers and places like brandon in town and country and and and so on and you know in other counties where you know. Roads in infrastructure might be city responsibility. That's a county responsibility as you said on top of public safety education. Everything else that has to get funded out of a county general budget. That's true although I mean the caveat to that is that Hillsborough county does levy a property tax specifically on the unincorporated area That is to support those kinds of municipal services that city government would typically provide That property tax most of that property tax does not go towards transportation improvements. The gas tax is the primary source of funding for transportation improvements. So there is talk of of getting some kind of replacement tax on the ballot. Next year that we go into effect. I assume in twenty twenty three so if we go back to twenty eight team in the original offer transportation campaign. That's five years where the county hasn't been able to make any kind of headway on some of these projects. Where does that leave us. If voters next year approved that tax and then it goes into a fact and hopefully there aren't any a challenges to it is emmy you've got this backlog but at the same time you've got needs that are still coming up right. So where does that. Leave the county if if this A replacement taxes. is passed. So i'm and you're right. The the backlog is continuing to grow. It doesn't doesn't get any less And with things like with with roadway maintenance for example actually the cost of resurfacing. The road goes up if you delay doing the basic maintenance Because what happens. Is that the surface of the road. And the substructure of the road starts to crumble. And so now you actually have like a whole reconstruction of the road as opposed to just like skimming off the top codan putting putting down a new coat so every year that we delay it it makes it makes the backlog of improvements grow and become more expensive But honestly it also has a real toll on all of our lives so for example the list of projects that was Was going to be done by hillsborough county. Each of the local governments had a specific list of projects that they provided to the citizen oversight committee for approval to make sure that it was consistent with the wishes of the voters. So that's all published. That's up on our our website for anybody to see if you're curious It's under a independent oversight dot org Hillsborough county's list of projects included eleven projects. That were we call complete street improvement so basically going through and You know putting in all of the facilities. That would be part of a street now if you built it up to today's standards sidewalks and lighting and Medians that kind of thing. All of those things helped to improve safety so we looked at. How many severe crashes occurred on these eleven roads over the last year and the answer was one hundred And our ballpark estimate on what these improvements could have done is probably reduce the number of severe crashes by about half so that means that every year that we don't get to implement these safety improvements because there is not adequate funding. That's just on those eleven roads. Fifty two crashes with deaths or incapacitating injuries. That could have been prevented every year. You mentioned the independent oversight committee and that was that was a body that was set up the ordinance that voters voted on an two thousand eighteen to kind of oversee how tax money was going to be spent Is that now dissolved. Now that the the tax has been struck down we're not scheduling any further meetings of the oversight committee. We're double checking right now with the county attorney's office that it is officially disbanded after the referendum while we did sign an agreement with the county in the cities and heart that The npr would provide administrative support for the oversight committee. So we're just verifying that. That agreement is is no longer valid. The relief bill. That president biden signed a couple of weeks ago. It has funding for for transit systems and other needs. Will any of that money helps some of these issues that we've talked about or is it more kind of a one off a pot of money that will be available to to heart another transit agencies. Yeah it's it's mostly a one off as much as i hate to say that I mean what we're talking about is Is ongoing operational funding so for example There was There was an announcement a couple of months ago. That the reconstruction of the seventy five interchange in the west shore business district you senator howard franklin bridge that that will have to be delayed by a couple of years because of the economic downturn related to the pandemic think that's after. They announced that they were actually going to move faster on it right and then they said well no because the economic issues so what they What they accelerated was the reconstruction of the bridge itself No they had the funding for that in place They went ahead and move that ahead by a few months Which is great. You know when you don't traffic on the roads you might as well go out and get some work done. But the The west shore interchange that was funded in want to see twenty twenty four and it's been moved out to twenty twenty six so that's an example of a one off project where we might be able to use the influx of federal cash to accomplish something meaningful And we're certainly talking to our partners at the department of transportation About some some big priority projects like that transit is is a little bit different because it is. It's an ongoing. you know. Every single day of every day of the week you have expenses to to run that bus service To get people to the essential destinations. In so i mean economic downturn has meant that transit agencies have had to cut back on their services and that's really tough for the worker stat dependent on those systems But as i mentioned we have a very very very modest transit system For a city our size are a better. I think that's it for my questions. Anything else you'd like to say before we wrap up I just encourage anybody who is interested in learning more to to check out to sites and that's did independent oversight dot org website And also we did financial scenarios for hillsborough county transportation with and without the sales tax in our long range plan. And you can find that on our website. It's under hillsborough. Ipo dot org And then you look for the twenty forty five long range transportation plan. You can find it in that executive summary document or beth. Thanks so much for joining us today. We appreciate it. Thank you thank you take care that was beth alden etc director of the hillsborough county metro. Paul oven planning organization. We had a slight problem with her audio. When she was talking about how the tax revenue would be spent. So here's that breakdown again. Twenty seven percent would go to safety improvements. Twenty six percent would be set aside for congestion management twenty percent for maintenance twelve percent for walk and bike improvements and fifteen percent for any type of transportation improvement allowed under law. This is florida matters. The conversation continues in just a moment. You're listening to florida matters on. Wsf eighty nine point seven. I'm bradley george today. We're talking about what's next for transportation in hillsborough county after the florida. Supreme court struck down. The county's transportation sales tax veronica brasilia's smith covers transportation for the tampa bay business journal. So starting off ronca now that the supreme court has has struck down the the transportation sales tax in hillsborough county. The county is discussing plans to Refund all the taxes collected about half a billion dollars. How would that work potentially so first of all. That's a good question that's on everybody's minds right now. The county has agreed to work with the department of revenue as well as the local circuit courts. Right now they're saying i. You know that discussion has to go through the circuit courts and still keep discussion at the department of revenue. Although it's not up to the department so it's really up to the courts right now but what that looks like potentially is i mean i could see people you know retaining those huge receipts of big purchases they made but i cannot imagine everyone having baskets of receipts for every single purchase and get refunded to the exact sent. And so i. I could see being refunded that way through the big purchases through the minor ones and everything else. I can't But there might be a more effective way to do so but at this point in time no one knows exactly how that looks and we know when the florida supreme court issued their opinions. They did not address that issue. Will the group all for transportation which promoted the the twenty eighteen of charter amendment which set up the original tax. I know they're still active. What are what are they up to. Now what tyler hudson in christine are the ones who really took it on. Christina still is working through dj. Tyler hudson is on the heart board. And so you now. He hasn't inactive voice and say being on the heart board and of course he still practices as being an attorney. But right right to the point of the supreme court you know issuing now you know their opinion they had said they're going to support this old away Of course they're not going to have that that front seat role as they did in twenty eighteen but there therefore the county to task questions with and to work with you know. They're very of course educational on this end of the county has any questions on spearheading something like this. There you know they would make themselves available. That's my impression of speaking with them and seen the other interviews to so. I think they really taken on a good roll of bringing this issue up getting into citizens to back it but of course whole issue was this was not county lead and right there is support county. Hopefully we'll try to get this on the twenty twenty two a ballot wells you said commissioners are trying or talking at least about putting a replacement tax on the twenty twenty two ballot What are they going to do to make sure that they don't end up in a legal fight again and photos approve it where the taxes struck down i think they have to be very specific Because one of the one of the huge Argument minute of points from flirt supreme court was that it was not specific enough into language voters a quote unquote knew what they were voting for However the other argument is you know it was clear You know it was obvious that the way that it was written and so they're going to be extremely specific. Schuster words very carefully But with this being county lead it really ups the chance of this happening again What you might be more fearful you know. The voters that did vote to tax themselves. They they've seen this tax collected and not ever used it just sits in an escrow and for vintage have that same just in voting for this once again but it being of course different by being county lead will we'll see if they you know still still trust and still believe you know. It's it's worth the tax themselves and there were actually going to see this money. Get used will without the tax revenue from the two thousand eighteen checks. What kind of decisions is the county facing in terms of spending on its transportation needs where hundreds of millions in the hole and that's from safety projects. Cy walks sigli crossing the road. Those signals pro-tory signaling. It's a long list and without having that we're still face with our shortcomings and the roads just continued to get more dangerous More more potholes if you will with that. You're also looking at the agencies in impact. There i made with heart that money was going to be used for the streetcar modernization and extension project. So you know that that's something on hold on most because they need to seek no different types of funds now for that The cross bay ferry. You know to continue that service. It's it's a long list of projects unfortunately but The biggest ones that the county and the citizens were concerned about or more so a safety oriented right and when we talk about these transportation issues. I mean it's not just a hillsborough county issue because it's a regional problem right because there are people who work in pinellas hillsborough or vice versa. The live in pasco or or some other part of the metro area. Are we any kind of closer to coming up with a regional framework regional plan to improve transit in all the counties of the tampa bay reaching a kirk. We have a t bar which that was their legislative role was to you know not just look at hillsborough county but beyond it and do regional projects act on it Conduct studies which they've been doing numerous studies for i would say the most. The largest one was significant. One would be the rapid regional transit project and that line would go through multiple surrounding counties and provide rapid transit. Bart may even express bus service down the line and with that that project seems to have been pushed out by of roughly ten years or so and so. I don't think we're gonna see me mass transit soon as far as regional planning a lot of agencies. They're focused solely on their county Pse has taken an interest anderson project you know possibly connecting over to tampa but right now. They're is saint pete and Project we have for. Bart is a sun. The sun runner is the is the bus rapid transit project that would run from a believe. It's downtown saint pete beach yes and the tropicana station was the station that they were i. You know as a priority to get felt. You mentioned the cross bay ferry. Where does that. Where does that stand right now. They they need more funding to continue for the saint pete tampa service and then. I know that on the saint pete side of things. They really supported us. I know david gwynn has as well and right now. It's it's really up in there when it comes to continuing for for funding for that as well as you know. The future need of connecting the cross bay ferry to macdill air force base and so county and would that i know that segment leg of the project really hasn't garnered any any sort of movement whatsoever but the tips peop- one. We're trying to figure out how to continue that how to keep funding that just to wrap it up. You know stacey white commissioner stacey white who led the fight against against the twenty eighteen tax Where does he stand on this issue of replacement tracks that will be passed by the county commission. He seemed to be in support of ed. As long as it's in his is viewed as legal and that the county has authority and they're the ones taken delete on this. He had said obviously he was not supportive. Offer transportation citizen group relief. Initiating the lead on this and that it should have been The county from the gecko but Yeah he said overall he still of course supports transportation and he wants to see projects Bloom income to fruition and so he seems to be in support of forward with this. But but we'll we'll see what happens because twenty twenty two. A lot can happen from now till then. Right or eight veronica. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate it. Trump appreciate your time veronica. Brassinne smith a reporter at the tampa bay business journal. That's our show for this week. But we want to let you know about what's on next week show. Saint petersburg will soon make a decision about redevelopment of tropicana field with or without the tampa bay. Rays we want to know what you think about the shortlist of proposals for the tropicana field site. You can tweet us at florida matters or leave a comment on the w. usf public media facebook page. We might include your thoughts in the conversation. Do priebus is our producer. I'm bradley george. You've been listening to florida matters. Hope you'll join us again next week.

hillsborough county beth alden bradley george florida supreme court hillsborough county metropolit Florida supreme court tampa bay water Hillsborough county citizen oversight committee beth independent oversight committe president biden
Media Ignores New Evidence From Joe Biden Accuser | Dave Rubin | DIRECT MESSAGE

The Rubin Report

21:05 min | 1 year ago

Media Ignores New Evidence From Joe Biden Accuser | Dave Rubin | DIRECT MESSAGE

"The report podcast listeners. Just a quick reminder that my first book don't burn this book freethinking in an age of unreason is now available for preorder in it. I show you guys how to navigate. A world of outrage mobs political polarization online censorship without totally losing your mind preorder your copy now on Amazon or Barnes and noble or go to dope. Burn this book Dot Com and Order Yours today. All right good people over the Internet. It Is April. Twenty seven twenty twenty. We are in week. One hundred forty six of the quarantine slash lockdown. I'm Dave Rubin as you guys know. I'm doing these direct messages about fifteen twenty minutes every Monday and Wednesday today particularly big one for us because in case you haven't heard I've got a book coming out tomorrow. Finally I've been promoting this thing for about eight months but today is your last day to preorder. Don't burn this book. It's coming out tomorrow. I assume a bunch of already in the mail at now to you guys. I just saw this morning that we're already an Amazon bestseller which is a pretty beautiful thing. Tomorrow we are doing a live signing for the book we'll be live streaming at right here on this channel. So if you haven't preordered the book yet and you want to get assigned book played and you can ask me a question during the livestream. We've got the link right down below. It's just premier collectibles dot com slash Ruben. So today's your last data preorder if you WANNA preorder and you want assigned book and you can ask me a question for the livestream tomorrow today. Is it in case you've been ignoring me for the last eight months and I'm sure you had your reasons. It's time people you're trapped in your house. I promise you that the ideas in this book are the right ideas for right now. I finish writing this thing in July. We added in the fall. But the stuff that I talk about in this book about States Rights About Personal Responsibility Finding a mentor. Thinking for yourself. More importantly than anything else They're more relevant now. Actually then even when I wrote them before just because of everything going on with grown virus so premier collectibles dot com slash Ruben. The link is right down below. You will get assigned book. Play which I'll sign for you live tomorrow I'm going to be signing the entire time through and you can ask me a question and I'm very excited to be part of that. Oh and by the way if you haven't seen it already if you go ahead and pre-order and this is for anyone that's already preordered if you go to Ruben report DOT COM slash crease slash exclusive. You can enter your order confirmation number and you can see the video that my husband. David and I put up. It's an hour long interview. He interviewed me and we talk about building the show together and meeting. Donald trump and just the adventure. We've been on a whole bunch of other stuff and it's an hour long interview. We have a little teaser for that on our Youtube Channel where we tell the Donald Trump story. That's that's Ruben. Report DOT COM SLASH. Presale thrash presale. I got a lot of my mind right now. It's going to be a crazy crazy. Two weeks right now. There's a lot happening okay so I wanted to talk about this Joe Biden situation today. I didn't really want to talk about this. Joe Biden situation. Because when I do these direct message this is more my my ability and my desire just to talk to you directly about sort of what's going on in my life over the last six weeks eight weeks whatever it is now talk to you about. What's going on with lockdown? And what are you guys doing to pass the time and are you working on new skills and just like all the things that we're all thinking about like are we happy at our jobs and what about telecommuting and are we trapped her kids in the house and do we want to do all these things and like just all about the new world. That's on the horizon but there was a story in the last couple days that has gone sort of semi viral and I say Semi Viral. Because it's only going viral in a certain corner the Internet. I want to preface everything that I'm about to say right now by saying that I am not a journalist. I have never said that. I am a journalist. I do not purport to be a journalist. I wouldn't even want to be accused of being a journalist. Of course that being said most journalists are actually journalists meaning that they're not journalists who are on the quest for finding truth. Most of them are activists who are guys as journalists and. We're seeing an example of that right now. One of the things that I write about in the book. Actually there's a whole chapter on how to spot fake news and I talked about four types of tape. Fake News one type. I think this is the most interesting type. Actually because when we think of fake news we think of like just blatantly fake stories right like. That's an obvious one and I talk about that in the book. And then there's another type which is when there's a headline that says one thing and then if you read the article which most people don't even bother doing you find out that the headline and the article are almost polar opposites of each other. That's another type but the type that I'm most interested in because I think it's the one that the least amount of people understand. Is that a type of fake news is what the media ignores and we're seeing version of that right now so look there have been these sexual assault accusations against Joe Biden. Now we know that when Brett Cavenaugh the Supreme Court justice he was just a nominee at the time when he had accusations against him for weeks and weeks and weeks. This was the front page of the New York Times. This was CNN Washington Post. This was everything everywhere the though they were just allegations right and I'm not saying the media should or shouldn't have covered it but we know how the media reacted when he a conservative had accusations against him. I was actually on tour with Jordan Peterson during that time and wherever we went we were infrequent streets of Dublin. I kid you not people would come up to me and asked me about cabinet. I was like this is crazy that people across the world in Ireland or asking me about the presumptive nominee for the Supreme Court. Just craziness okay. So we know that they the media treats people on the right certainly and you all know that everybody knows that right But over the last couple of weeks there have been allegations from a woman named Tara Reid who is a former Joe Biden staffer against Joe Biden and. She claims that he sexually assaulted him. Now for weeks people have been talking about this online. It's an allegation much like the cabin. Obligations are and. I'm not here to say it's true or that the others were true or that any allegations are true and I do believe in due process. Believe it or not. I know that's an old school but I'm an old school guy but the mainstream media has completely ignored it and then in the last couple of days and this is where the story really gets interesting in the last couple of days a clip. From an old Larry King. Show my man Larry King. I'm talking to him later today. By the way Where he used to do live call ins on his. Tv Show on CNN. A clip came out. And you should listen to this clip. And then I'll give it context in just a moment. So this is Larry King Live. This is about twenty five years ago. We're back a couple more phone calls on this very important topic. Our guests the former United States Senator Howard Baker Richard Alan Former National Security Adviser and Lois Romano of the Washington. Post San Luis Obispo. California Hello I'm wondering what of a staffer would to do besides go to the press in Washington. My daughter has just left there After working for a prominent senator and could not get through with her problems at all the only thing she could have done with go to the press and she chose not to do it out of respect for him. She had a story to tell but out of respect for the person she worked for. She didn't tell but these are the people who do come to the Lowest Romano's right the staff work. Who Says I WanNa let you know about? What's going on down the hall and a lot of people have a sense of obligation? They feel that. This public officials should be accountable. If it's something the president got I love seeing peak. Larry King just like the tightrope and the suspenders kind of hunched over a desk. I love it okay. So what's interesting about this clip? Is it turns out that it is now confirmed by Tara. Reid herself via twitter. That the woman in that video the woman who called in to claim that her daughter had been sexually assaulted by a senator is. Tara Reid's mother now. Apparently her mother has passed on since but she is confirmed that that is the voice of her mother now. That doesn't make the allegations true. But what's interesting about this and this goes to what I talked about earlier about. Type of fake news. Is that everyone stelter and Jake tapper all the CNN people. They're seeing these clips Anderson Cooper seeing these clips all the time. They're seeing these clips and much like they've been covering for Biden mental state which everyone knows is deteriorating and by the way when he either steps down or gets replaced. Or whatever whatever's going to happen. When that thing happens suddenly there will be a good. Jillian stories but I knew but I was pressured not to say anything. Everyone knows it every everyone backing him right now even some of the People. I like some of the former candidates who am I bet on this show even They all know what the deal is. But that that thing where the media ignores something because it doesn't fit their narrative that is a type of fake news again. I am not saying the allegations are true. The New York Times by the way ignored ignored ignored the story for weeks until they finally did a story. I think on page twenty three or twenty four and of course within that had paragraphs in paragraphs about allegations against trump. Now the point is if you're gonNA talk about allegations against trump fine just like you're GonNa talk about allegations of Kavanagh fine but then you have to talk about. The Biden. Allegations too but with the media has done is become a cheerleading machine for Democrats and basically a slander machine against Republicans. And it's it's like this exact type of story that is turning everyone against mainstream media and the irony and I say this all the time but the irony is that journalists are destroying journalism right. It's not people think it's like. Oh it's online voices that are finally sticking it to the to the man. The man meaning like mainstream media. But it's it's not like yeah. It's great that there's a plethora voices it's great that you guys can find truth and interesting opinions and the rest of it elsewhere but it should not all on someone like me to have to calmly explain to you the insanity that's going on here but what you're going to see now is they're gonNA keep running cover. Stelter won't touch this. And Jake Tapper Jake Tapper by the way I think it's a decent human being. He's the last guy at CNN has like a say the last but like the last of the main people. Let's say that I think has like a spark of like thought process going on and is in basically totally in it for the Democrats and again. They can all do that if they say that's what they are. But they ignore it long enough then it catches fire online and then it feeds the narrative that they're just like a BS monster basically against Republicans and by the way. This is one of the things whether you like them or not. This is one of the things that that was because he John Travolta but Donald Trump inherently understood that he had to not only fight the Democrats but he also had to fight the machine. So it's It's really it's just crappy more than anything else and I wanted to bring it to your attention because you're not gonna see this in mainstream media and I would prefer not to do this. I prefer to talk about some of the other things about this book that I have coming out tomorrow. And by the way guys if you go to premier collectibles DOT COM Slash Ruben. You can get assigned book. Played them signing them. Live tomorrow and I'll answer one of your questions live so we're very excited about that. But oh by the way. My new video came out morning. It's called the bravery deficit. I've done three. I think this is. I think this is the best of the three. My two other ones are in their top like fifteen. I think the left is their first or second most viewed video. But I really think this one is just perfect and really perfect for the moment that we find ourselves in where there's so many people afraid to say what they think so. I hope you guys will check that out as well and and I want to jump to a couple of questions and by the way I'd love to hear your thoughts on this type of fake news what's going on with the media and everything else these as because my twitter feed is just so out of control and there's just so many responses to everything and the rest of it and I can't even deal with facebook or whatever if you want to communicate directly with me and with like-minded people with no trolls and bots join us. At RUBEN REPORT DOT COM. And we've got an apple APP and we've got Google play APP ANDROID APP and we've got just incredible free thinkers from literally all over the world. And there's no trolls or bites. Because if you're a troll in about Ibuki yet and by the way that's not de platforming I just don't want you in my house. It's my digital home. You can't be there don't like it don't want you okay. Let's see. This is a great question this. I should say this for tomorrow but I'll do a couple here. Returned to reason as which part of the book was the hardest to write and why I also just finished your new prager. You five minute video January one of the best prager you videos. I've ever seen well. I'm glad to hear that so. Thank you for that. Which was the hardest part? You know in many ways. Actually it was the first chapter which was not the first chapter when I wrote it when he was one of the things that you find out when you're writing is that Things get moved. So the editors come in and they're like well you know we can build a different ARP this way. This way that way and chapter one was not originally chapter one it fully make sense chapter one and then subsequently changed some things so that it sort of fed that kind of from the back but in chapter one. It's it's called. It's time to come out and what I talk about is much like what. I'm sort of laying out in the Prater video that there is a political cause it right now. I mean most of us think that there's only closet related to your sexuality but you can be closeted about anything any thoughts that you're sharing your closeted about and when you are closeted. It will lead to a lot of bad stuff so anyone. That's been closeted about their sexuality or something else like you know what that leads to like your. There's only room for one in there and then you know what there's room for usually booze and drugs and just a lot of bad behavior and shame and all that stuff and I sent. That's happening to people because of politics right now and it's not because they want to be out out there as a racist or something like that but the machine. The woke machine has actually caused people to fear it. And that's the purpose of the prager. You video which is why we released today with the book coming out tomorrow because I want to break that machine. I don't think there is something so spectacularly brave about me. I just happened to be doing this thing and I think I think you guys are ready to do too and I think especially especially especially right now while we're in the midst of this craziness with the lockdown and we're seeing people in states rise up like it's time to start bringing this thing home like I'm not. I'm not saying that it was a hoax or anything like that. Like I have been fine with everything you know I was GonNa say I've been fine with everything we've done. I don't know that I've been fine with everything we've done. Especially when the when the Governor of Michigan decides you're not going to sell seeds and you can't do landscaping at your house and the mayor of my city here in Los Angeles wants to snitch on our neighbors so not everything has been perfect. But we did social distancing. We seem to a flat mccur. It's been about two months. We gotta get back out there guys and I see a lot of people now. They're starting to say that privately. Even when I was at the supermarket yesterday I had you know doing the six foot. I got my mask and it's L. A. It's ninety five degrees dripping and I got plastic gloves on and it's just miserable but I heard a guy on the phone behind me. Talking about the whole thing is be us and it's like people are starting to turn on this and if you have a healthy skepticism of government you know. This is one of the interesting things right now. I keep seeing these comedians and Jimmy Kimmel types like mocking all. The protesters and the protesters are fighting for our ability to go out again. It doesn't mean they're right about everything he doesn't mean it's a conspiracy. But I would say at this moment. If we're at the apex of this thing and we can either go lockdown forever or start bringing our some some freedoms back while understanding that. Maybe that's GONNA cause some more sickness again. There could be second waves and all that stuff. It's like life does go on. It has to go on. Life finds a way Jeff Goldblum Jurassic Park. He's in a lot of crap this week. Did you see this? He was a judge on one of those drag shows and he asked the Muslim. If there's a problem in Islam against gays and now the woke police are going after him. And it's like wait a minute we'll people. I thought we were four days but I guess not. 'cause The pyramid a little weird anyway so writing the chapters. That was quite divergent. Thought they're writing. The chapter about the closet was the hardest me personally because I had to go back to a time that I don't really think about that. Had to do with a lot a lot of depression and not being happy and the rest of it and I like in my experience in that what I think a lot of people are dealing with now and actually there was there. Were probably about an extra twenty pages. Really just like devoted to that thing itself my me and the closet That that we cut that. I think we'll probably be part of of maybe my next book or Bill's Eboni Deon for an expert that maybe won't be as personal or something but I think you really really will dig. The book is in the numbers. Have been fantastic. And we're we're We're in good shape and And I'm just excited. It's like I feel like I finish this thing so long ago. And it's like I'm about to give birth tomorrow So I'm very excited for that and I will throw in one more. Oh well Geoffrey quickly asked it. I see Tim pools take on the New York. Times ARTICLE ON BIDEN RE case. What's your take on it? I didn't see Tim's video on it but I think my feelings about it right now. Tori lover says. What was the epiphany that caused you to change your way of thinking politically? How can we enlighten others to that path? I mean that is literally one hundred percent what the book is about. It is about my path my journey and the tools that you guys will need to to blaze your own trail. I mean one of the things that I'm really big on in this book is. I'm not trying to convince anybody to think anything what I want you to do. Is Think for yourself the abortion chapter. I literally am the abortion. It's not a chapter. There's a section on what I think about specific issues the abortion chapter the abortion section within that chapter. I literally end by saying now. They all hate me. Let's move on so what I'm trying to do here is allow you to think for yourselves and what. I'm trying to loudest some classical liberal principles that are about individual rights and laze fare economics light-touch government. That's it and I really do think that is the whitest tent in the future. I think a lot of people are waking up to it and in many ways right now. It's sort of all of us and by all of us. I mean it's Libertarians and conservatives and old school liberals kind of everybody against the Progressive Socialist like the people that just want government to do everything so I don't even want to get hung up on progressives or social is just basically government do everything. It's pretty much everyone against you. And but that's a tough fight because those are the people that really get into government so that they can control it so there's a lot a lot going on here. Okay I think that's it for now because we're trying to keep these short. I'm also last week. I was literally sitting in this chair for about eight. Nine Hours. A day Doing all sorts of press. So if you haven't seen it my Ben Shapiro. Sunday special just went up over. On Ben's channel on Youtube I didn't interview with Adam Corolla the other day Dan Crenshaw interviewed me. Crowder interviewed me. I'm going to be on prager radio show this week and Larry Elder Gorka and my buddy Max Loubier. I did his podcast. I'm doing Brian Callans. Podcast there's like a good Jillian other things. Oh and I'll be on Tucker Carlson tonight. That's a big one. So the sort of official television debut of the book is tonight. I will be on Tucker Carlson. He's getting the first exclusive. That's what we call it in the Biz anyway. Anyway guys one more time. If you go to premier collectibles DOT COM Slash Rubin will sign a book. Play Live for you tomorrow and you can submit a question for the livestream answer anything and everything and it's GonNa be a crazy week as always thank you guys for your support. I'm feeling sharp and ready to roll. Let me know your thoughts on this Larry. King Situation Larry King video and just sort of how the media is playing this thing. And by the way tapper stelter. You're watching this thing is just report on it. You don't have to even comment on it. Just say Oh this thing exists and then we wouldn't think you're so terrible. Could you do that? Throw me a bone here. What do you do that? All RIGHT GUYS. Thanks a lot. Don't burn this book Dot Com. I'll see you tomorrow Hey guys just a quick reminder that the Rubin report community is officially here this is the first project of my new TECH COMPANY LOCALS DOT COM. And you can get ads. Free VIDEO AD. Free Audio podcast. You can communicate with me. You can communicate with other fans. We've got a news feed that has no algorithm ick manipulation. There's no shadow banning or debu sting or the rest of it. We're going to be building out these communities for all sorts of creators over the next coming months. But right now you can sign up at Ruben. Report DOT COM or download the Rubin report APP in the apple APP store or Google play.

Joe Biden Larry King Ruben Donald trump Dave Rubin Tara Reid CNN CNN twitter The New York Times apple Google Amazon Jillian Tucker Carlson Supreme Court Jake tapper Jake Tapper Jake Tapper
Commercial Aviation in the U.S., Part 2

Stuff You Missed in History Class

55:06 min | 1 year ago

Commercial Aviation in the U.S., Part 2

"Support for Steffi missed in history class comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by quicken loans finding the right house is not easy but finding the right mortgage can be rocket mortgage is doing more to help you understand the home buying process that you can get exactly what you need because it's not just a mortgage it's your mortgage and they've found a better way they make therefore the undersigned governments having agreed on certain principles and arrangements in order that international civil aviation may be developed a safe mortgage welcome to stuff you missed in history class a production of iheartradio's how stuff works hello and welcome to the podcast I'm Holly Fry and I'm Tracy Wilson Mrs to put Down Passengers Mail and cargo taken on in the territory of the country whose nationality the aircraft possesses to take on passengers Chicago you'll see it referred to colloquially as just the Chicago Convention this convention established the International Civil Aviation Organization the icy all security and whereas it is desirable to avoid friction and see promote that cooperation between nations and peoples upon which the peace of the world depends conflict before this that there could be some wiggle room in these but these are the five freedoms to fly across its territory without landing to land for non traffic in Liaoning in each other's countries the purpose of the ICAO was also defined during the convention and it was stated as follows quote whereas the future development of orderly manner and that the international air transport services may be established on the basis of equality of opportunity and operated soundly and economically other agreeing nation and to put down passengers mail and cargo coming from any such territory in short it's all hey we're all going to be cool with each other flying in each other's airspace so this is part of a two parter and in part one we looked at the early roots of commercial aviation and how airplanes went from being the latest invention to starting what about his relationship with today's airline industry and it is very fun and silly chat so we're going to hop right into talking about how various remember that took place near the end of World War Two that prepared for a global airline industry all the way up to the deregulation of the commercial aviation industry in the late nineteen seventies mail and cargo destined for the territory of the country whose nationality the aircraft possesses to take on passengers mail and cargo destined for the territory of per the terms each of the participating nations would grant all other participating nations these five freedoms there was some exclusionary language about if they had had a previous a EO which is the UN brands to regulate air travel at the international level and during the convention the so-called five freedoms of the air were developed class and take the first step toward the home of your dreams equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states L. S. consumer access dot Org number thirty thirty mortgage by quicken loans push-button get national civil aviation can greatly helped to create and preserve friendship and understanding among the nations and peoples of the world yet it's abuse can become a threat to the and then there's like a special bonus at the end this is kind of a double episode because we have a special guest John Hodgman came by the studio for a visit recently and world powers we're thinking about how to make air travel work after the war was over in late nineteen forty four the convention on International Civil Aviation took place accordingly concluded this convention to that end it was signed on December seventh nineteen forty four but the ICAO acted as provisional agency until twenty six of the fifty two signing countries had ratified it locally and that happened on March fifth nineteen forty seven in the late nineteen forties and early nineteen fifties the British overseas airways perfect we very real industry at least until world war to kind of put a damper on commercial aviation for a little while in this episode we're going to go from the internationally INC built and introduce the world's first commercial jet airliner that the Haviland comet these jess were beautiful and stylish and ultimately the her you can absolutely find accounts of pilots and other people in the industry who have remained very angry for a very long time flights all the passengers and crew died and each of these disasters and after the third one the comment was taken out of production and a formal investigation was launched into the were disastrous and nine hundred fifty three and nineteen fifty four there were three terrible fatal accidents when have comments broke apart during their came about the fact that it was not those measures were not taken after the first accident but the investigation founded in each of these three cases there had been cracks in the disallowed the failed planes that was caused by the pressurization cycle and a riveting system that wasn't able to manage the stretching forces that were in play the skins of these planes was just too thin and the squared off corners the window's cracked when that skin was stressed by take off and landing the comments flu within the the pilot community but their construction and their materials were simply not adequate for ongoing use and they were ultimately blamed for the failures beautifully when they initially went into active use although there are accounts from pilots who flew the comments that suggested that there were a number of control problems with them that were also concern at least Boeing and Douglas made use of the findings to improve their own designs and to safeguard against similar failures if you've ever wondered why planes all have those the incidents were obviously tragic but they also led to significant improvements in aircraft manufacturer companies around the world including after a thirty one minute maintenance delay three minutes later a united airlines flight headed to Chicago also left Los Angeles due to turbulence the Twa Marshall Aviation in the United States on the morning of June thirtieth a Trans World Airlines flight bound for Kansas City Missouri left Los Angeles at nine am much visibility at ten thirty one am the planes collided over the Grand Canyon and all the passengers on both flights died this was not the I mid air collision like this in the years leading up to it there had been more than five doesn't others but this one was a lot larger than any of these others it made it painful a flight was granted permission to go up to a higher altitude that put it at the same altitude as the United flight the united pilot wasn't notified of the other lean that was near it and technology was very different at the time pilots had to rely a lot more on visual surveillance in these circumstances and the cloud cover meant they did not have nearly as curved rounded edged windows it's because of the findings that were made during this investigation another tragedy took place in Nineteen fifty-six that had a significant impact on nineteen fifty eight Oklahoma senator. As Mike Monroney introduced a bill that would it clear that safety procedures and regulations had not kept up with the rapid growth of the airline industry after World War Two yeah and the course of just a little over a decade and this bigger problem that it really brought into focus but first we're gonNA pause and have a word from one of our sponsors let me tell you about Pete heard how Geico proud partner of the NHL good save money on car insurance so he switched and saved a bunch so it all worked out I loved hockey and always wanted to play in the NHL Pete played since he was three and begged his mom to let him stay on the ice by some nights he even slept in his hoppy create a Federal Aviation Agency on August Twenty Third Nineteen fifty-eight President Dwight D Eisenhower signed the Federal Aviation Act which created the new agency I Federal Aviation Agency administrator was appointed that was retired Air Force General Elwood Pete Kasahda who took the helm of the organization as outlined in the around the Washington DC area sort of piecemeal wherever they could find desk space on May first nineteen sixty one the first US airliner was hijacked skates Pete practiced and practiced until one day when he was forty seven Pete realized he just wasn't that good so he threw his skates in the trash but then established its purpose as providing for safe and efficient airspace use and transferred the work of the Civil Aeronautics Authority over to it on November first nineteen fifty eight three months that prompted President Kennedy to hold a press conference announcing new air travel security measures in his statement he said quote now let me say that we act the agency began its operation sixty days after his appointment on December thirty first nineteen fifty-eight for the agency's first several years and actually had no official the National Airlines flight was forced to divert from its Miami it's a key West route into land in Cuba this was the first four flights diverted to Cuba over the course of the era of airline hijackings and how there were a lot of them yes and to be clear this was not the first for space set aside for it so until it moved into the newly built Federal Office Building at eight hundred Independence Avenue in nineteen sixty three its staff was scattered it had it had way more than doubled and there were just a lot more planes in the sky to be managed in a moment we're going to talk about the legislation that came about in response to this incident outside the door opened the following year the first air marshals were sworn into service I think there's an episode of the podcast criminal the kind of talks about this door be strong enough to prevent entrance by force and that possession of the key beheld by those inside the cabin so that pressure cannot be put on the members of the crew associations resulted in a standoff more than twelve thousand Pacho members went on strike grounding approximately one third of US commercial flights after an ultimatum and so in several started happening very quickly it really did make for some fairly significant concerns thus this determination by the president have ordered today on a number of our planes border patrolman who will ride on a number of our flights we are also going to insist that every airplane lock it's door and that the action of those people were eventually reinstated but the drop in workforce was a huge strain on air traffic control and the FAA and the professional air traffic controllers organization time that an airline was hijacked that had I think the first one is in the nineteen thirties but this is the first time that a US commercial plane was hijacked organization the Federal Aviation Agency was rolled up under it and it was renamed the Federal Aviation Administration becoming the FAA we know today in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight the professional air traffic controllers organization was formed initially by New York air traffic controllers he wanted to ensure that their members were represented in negotiation from President Ronald Reagan to return to work I think they had forty eight hours to do it the strikers refused and they were dismissed from their jobs permanently by the FAA a small refound workers which resulted in an increase in worker benefits although things remained pretty strained and then more than a decade later in nineteen eighty-one after a long series of contract and concord began carrying passengers on supersonic flights they ran at an altitude of sixty thousand feet and could make the Atlantic crossing in three hours you could also apparently see the assode and even multiple episodes this is one of them because it's a fairly significant moment yeah and it had a lot of effects not just in the world of air travel and air traffic control but also in labor most of the orders for jets to be cancelled they ran exclusively as parts of British Airways and Air France fleets the tickets were also expensive folded there was no union for air traffic controllers until the National Air Traffic Controllers Association stepped into that role in nineteen eighty-seven and this of course is the shifting gears in nineteen sixty six the US Congress authorized the creation of the Department of Transportation which started operations in spring of the following year and as part of this new own on the last day of nineteen sixty eight and it had achieved the goal of supersonic flight half a year later in the summer of nineteen sixty nine the concord on the other hand gene was consumed by fire the hundred thirteen people died all the remaining concord jets were refitted with new fuel tanks but in two thousand three the last concord Aerospaciale after an initial agreement to the CO development had been struck by the British and French governments in nineteen sixty two Boeing had been working on a supersonic plane show the two competitors were once again on hand the conchords demonstration flight was solid and uneventful it went perfectly but the t one forty four which had a much more her grandiose and ambitious show featuring flight tricks broke apart in mid air and crashed into a nearby village killing eight people on the ground as well as six crew very quick version of a protracted and much more involved story that as we said at the top of episode one of this two parter there are a lot of pieces that this brief history that could be their own there aren't really any supersonic passenger jets concerns about the noise limited the conchords flight patterns the mid seventies oil crisis also flight took off from JFK International Airport in New York and landed in London there is another company developing a supersonic jet right now called boom which is apparently on and with the FAA the relationship between PETCO and the FAA had plenty of difficulties over the years in one thousand nine hundred seventy the union held a sick out of writes in general like huge in nineteen seventy-three the Paris air show featured two different supersonic planes in each of them to become the leader in the while the Soviet crafted continued development the tragedy at the Paris airshow really set back too far to compete with the concord three years later in nineteen seventy six regulated by the government so airlines had to compete for their customers based on service alone but they were thus guaranteed a certain return on every flight there was this huge curvature of the earth when you look out the window while the concord was a massive step forward technologically in the field of air travel you'll notice they are not running today you can make that transatlantic flight in three hours probably the airline is not going to be like okay we'll take the next four hours off like they're probably gonNA WANNA loaded up with people again and fly four and the concord were on hand both the planes and the rivalry between them drummed up a lot of excitement at the prospect of supersonic travel and so at the nineteen seventy three the problems air travel remained costly it was something out of reach of the average person for a lot of people that still is this also a very costly time in the United States so imagine like given how much discussion there has been especially recently about how much of a contributor to global warming air travel in the had its first flight in early nineteen sixty nine that was two months after the t you one forty four though it had been showcased at an event in to lose France in nineteen sixty the industry had grown there are a lot of reports that you'll read of airlines submitting proposed routes like saying hey we wanna run from Chicago what they thought was going to be the next stage of commercial aviation the Soviet designed to beloved to you one forty four had already made a name for itself it had first flown started do examine this issue economist Alfred Econ who also served as the chairman of the Civil Aeronautics Board championed deregulation as the solution to the in the wake of the oil crisis so even the existing passenger base like the people that could afford air travel that'd be shrank because money got a lot tighter for a lot of people the various regulations that have been put in place by the federal government could sometimes be at odds with the efficiency of the airlines and those costly Fares that we mentioned were problem Khan promoted the idea of flexible pricing and air travel is something that would benefit both the consumer and the airlines and thanks to Kahn's work and then in July of two thousand Air France Concorde flight had a catastrophic failure just after takeoff when a blown tire caused the fuel tank to rupture in the plane andy ago and here's the route that we propose and then it would sit somewhere in the system for six years and then the government Erdan on government on keeping the civil aeronautics board in charge of regulating the air routes and fares in the industry and that agency had grown really inefficient at managing all of it Shen system which relies on competitive market forces to determine the quality variety and price of air services and for other purposes as for the airlines even it just didn't leave the hangar during that event it was kind of like look at this plane we're not flying it but it's cool it had been developed in a partnership between British Aircraft Corporation and the French firm earns that deregulation would destabilize the entire industry and put some companies out of business and that did happen airlines including Panam Eastern and brand it can be like oh this is kind of a stale idea now we don't you need to resubmit and like those things were happening a lot as congress you're I don't know because I don't know if they'll be enough people that can afford to be doing that that's also appoint it's a I would not feign to have a firm ground shift their business model because as we mentioned they were up to that point competing on the basis of service and so suddenly have to shift from we offer you of aspects of the commercial aviation industry solidified so the hub-and-spoke network that probably most of us are familiar with became the standard with airlines concentrating on certain city back but I I don't know how they will manage things like price points yeah concord was definitely the the airline of the rich and famous airports in this idea became the standard business model for a lot of airlines by the nineteen nineties low cost carriers also emerged in the market offering pared-down services proportionally more people in the US firing than in other places wild deregulation of the airline industry continues to have its merits and it's issues debate mode deregulation the airline deregulation act was introduced by Nevada Senator Howard cannon on February six thousand nine hundred seventy eight it was signed into law by President Jimmy Carter international among others went under after this yeah it's such a huge shift and there were a lot there are a lot of articles at the time talking about how airlines had to completely and just could not sustain itself but in the nineteen seventies stretched on air travel in the US was governed by what had become an inflexible system that had a lot as as their main base of operations the hubs with airports that flights are routed through and then the spokes are the routes that run out of that airport to smaller can't afford that but people still wanted to fly those airlines and get what they thought were those airline experiences so it was real problem in the years after the deregulation act a number or much lower fees and the big consequence of all of this is that more people started flying and more often it really speaks to that statistic you mentioned earlier that shift to make in how you run everything going from like oh we're going to serve you beautiful meals on fine China and that will be what sets us apart to no more fine China everything to we offer you cheaper fares right very difficult thing to do and on in on the internal end like that's a big budget in general is I imagined it would be really hard to get funding for something that would allow more flights to happen more often faster because is this was not a welcome event a lot of them had lobbied against the act while it was under consideration in the hopes that it would not be made into law there were very real concern that with varying degrees of thoroughness transformed such industries as trucking railroads buses cable television stock exchange brokerage oil and gas on October twenty fourth of that year its full title was an act to amend the Federal Aviation Act of one thousand nine hundred eighty eight to encourage develop an attain air transportation its funding was cancelled by the US Congress in one thousand nine hundred ninety one and it never made it past the design phase at the nineteen seventy-one Paris airshow both the T. one forty aided by industry insiders and economists and also travel writers con defended deregulation for decades in an article that he wrote in the nineteen he's he said quote the United States Airline Deregulation Act of nineteen seventy eight was a dramatic event in the history of economic policy it was the first thorough dismantling of combat telecommunications financial markets and even local electric and gas utilities you could have a million conversations going on for years about the delightful and charming John Hodgman are you an Amazon prime member did you know that you have Thursday night football there's an football's return to prime video for third season line loyalty programs yes so but before we get to my chat with John we're gonNA take a quick sponsor break and then when we come back we will have the clean industry so that was another another factor that led congress down this path but this leads us to our special guests for this episode John Hodge their business plan but there is in development we'll see if it succeeds where concord I mean concord ran for awhile but ultimately for all those reasons we mentioned I'm never in the office when he is I can attest to this fact and to keep it at least history oriented in the beginning highly John Answer some trivia questions about the history of we just watched the railroad industry really really kind of fall apart in some ways because of regulations and that's why they were like we don't want the same thing to happen to the so now that I'm thinking about the airline industries history particularly as it pertains to loyalty programs we have a guest who is the absolute perfect person at this time pros and cons of deregulation of all those things that I just read yes and to be clear a lot of what lead to deregulation was they had essentially Hinson system of government control since the Supreme Court declared the National Recovery Act unconstitutional in one thousand nine hundred eighty five it also was part of a broader movement. I'm John Hodgman who has a a new book out called Medallion Status Yeah medallion status is my new book of Stories following fame specifically chasing diamond medallion status on Delta's frequent flyer program although you do not name Delta in the know my book is not an advertisement Dell right so I refer to it as my beloved airline so although anybody who flies delta would recognize all the terminologies immediately part of the MIN John's new book medallion status is about among other things his relationship with airline loyalty programs and that is something that arose in the immediate wake of derision vacation land which was a lot of stories about vacation this is a book about work all the Weird oddball jobs that I've had in my life since I was thirteen enjoy shows up this is less of a hard history segment than we would normally have John is a delight even though I relation as airlines all trying to find new ways to compete we also have a weird a weird tradition almost in our workplace of if I am on vacation John Video game video game which is the Sky Miles program is I understand I play that game regularly so it seemed like a good point to kind of use you as carrier Texas International Airlines started offering a miles program in nineteen seventy nine and then right on its heels there were larger airlines that of course we're like yes you can catch all the action on your TV on the web on your mobile device anywhere in the world in the experience is next level with prime videos x ray feature you can access next Gen nineteen sixty nine B nineteen seventy five see nineteen seventy eight or d nineteen eighty I think that it is united or Delta you know I'm a Delta Person I know you are but I don't think they started this and I have a feeling John Hodgman yeah what year was the airline Deregulation Act passed I'm GonNa give you choices okay good a jumping board to talk about some of the history of this short some of your history specifically with loyalty program quite funny so I I'm going to ask you let's play history and team information and now it's available on every type of device and if you're ready to hear a new take on the game you could switch over to sports broadcast legend as white men often do shoot and and just chasing a new kind of status which was specifically to make up for the loss of my TV Thursday night footballs presented by Bud Light Platinum Hannah storm and Andrea Kremer for the play by play so if you don't have cable or simply want to experience the future football tune in Thursday this week catch the New York giants the home buying process work for you in fact rocket mortgage is there with a word winning at client service and support every step of the way visit rocket mortgage dot com slash history the traffic counting the cheese mongering of its literary agent tting and probably the oddest of all most inexplicable is the period of time I spent on camera can you like a a gold star of learning yeah okay that's that's good that's so I I only child that's all I want validation that I did the work at the New England patriots coverage begins at seven PM Eastern Kickoff is eight twenty pm eastern also available on Fox network NFL network simulcast subject to change is that after deregulation is immediately when these airline rewards programs started popping up literally a year later a small there are no prizes neither are their penalty doing it if any of these are stuff I'm not GonNa if I'm not going to upgrade my status you're gonNA learn at the end of it we need to stay competitive so they started offering their own loyalty programs which of these three large airlines offered the first loyalty program okay was it American the famous minor television personality and is a book about losing that job right losing all my tv jobs and feeling very panicky about my status nine hundred eighty you are two years too late seventy yeah because they were trying to address the fact that more global I got it wrong leave no medallions revoke it they're going to bump you down to silver nine hundred seventy eight though yeah yeah and so it's no surprise was America you are correct it's American it's there Advance I was gonna say I never know if I should call it a badge but that is the oldest airline loyalty programs still running really yeah because they started there's eighty-one I'm S- platinum elite plus there for lyric by Bob Dylan position to bear in a band you're on the iheartradio APP or wherever you get podcasts Alcatel they were just letting this piece of pop art crumble yeah and there were birds colonies of birds living inside and ah you know at the same time that they're lovingly renovating the TWA terminal over by jetblue the Eero Saarinen Twa Terminal Love the Trivia around this particular airline okay what was the name of Pan Am's loyalty program was it a Air Pass Beast Dancy Jet Age jetsons looking yeah home terminal that featured it looked like a giant mushroom and it's because the central it because I became a Delta terminal right and I flew out of the world port about a year before it was finally demolished and the central terminal was as was a which Mocatta cylinder and on top there's is big overhang so that jets could pull up to the terminal on into profound disrepair because they had no interest in repairing it and it's historically architecturally beautiful and of its time but in impractical as there's many moving parts to what happened with the end of Pan Am but their their program people that were holding those miles went into Delta's program orange translucent garbage bags to collect leak water with these valves and and plastic pipes siphoning the water away it was like a set from the movie Brazil all I need an history emphasized it's international travel yes and of course at John F Kennedy Pan Am opened the world port which is their superfan and you could walk out to the jet with wet but then almost immediately after they created the started using larger jets that couldn't go up to the terminal of course and I only knew about it terminal right and by the time this was I'm I must have been twenty eleven two thousand twelve twenty three hundred twenty two thousand thirteen 'cause they only recently got rid of Yeah and interesting so they didn't they didn't lose them all I knew that it had to be Pan Am because I knew you were talking about Pan Am when he talked about people are interested because people are fetishistic about the history you don't know if it's any difference at all except you got it and someone else doesn't have yeah right the next and last question of little importance although historically interesting and people guy pass or sea world pass I'm GonNa say World Pat you're correct two to three you're fine right if you if you were a baseball player you'd be miraculous average it would be miracle afraid play baseball and then of

Delta John Hodgman Steffi Mike Monroney three hours nineteen fifty eight three mon sixty thousand feet forty eight hours thirty one minute three minutes three years four hours sixty days two months six years two years one day
The Other Republican

Radio Atlantic

35:04 min | 2 years ago

The Other Republican

"This episode of radio Atlantic is brought to you by grow with Google now, more than ever Americans need digital skills to find jobs, advanced their careers and grow their businesses. Grow with Google helps communities across the country. Get ahead through free resources flexible training programs and in person workshops. Learn more at Google dot com slash grow. This is radio Atlantic. I'm Isaac do bear. Twenty democratic candidates meet to debate this week ten on Wednesday, ten more on Thursday. All of them vying for the chance to face off against Donald Trump, but there's someone already running against Trump one lone challenger in the Republican primary. Former Massachusetts Governor Bill. Well, well, there's a vocal critic of President Trump and one of the rare Republicans calling for impeachment, and also actually for him to resign, and it should be said, well does uniquely qualified on the topic, he began his career in politics, as one of the first lawyers hired on the committee that was investigating Watergate for the house. We sat down to talk history, the state of the Republican party, and how he thinks he can actually make waves in the primary. Take a listen. So governor can we start with, I guess it was your first job was when you were working for the impeachment inquiry for Richard Nixon, you were the associate counsel and socio minority counsel for the House Judiciary committee, which decided to conduct the impeachment inquiry. And how did you end up there? It was a, you know, carom shot a Congressman Tom rails, back from Illinois called up. Somebody in new in Boston said they were looking for reasonable Republicans to come work on the minority staff. And so I was nominated as that handed. You establish your reputation as a reasonable Republican, you know, the, the guy who called me was a state Representative named mardi linski who later turn my administration years later, as governor, but a close political friend, and adviser and he made the connection. But what was it that had made you stand out, or you were how old at that point, I was not very old twenty eight. But already had made people in Massachusetts think that when the call comes from Washington, we need reasonable Republicans that it's, it's you. I think I'd already help to form a group called the Lincoln union in Massachusetts, which was an affiliate of the so-called Rippon group, and there was a so-called reasonable Republican newspaper called the Rippon forum of China's dedicated reader. So is just a couple dozen of us in Boston, and one of the people who is working with you on the committee was Hillary Rodham. Yes, I was the first person hired shoes, the second person hired we reported for duty the same day. The only other guy there was John door. She's council. What do you remember her from that? Well, I work closely with her, we were both on the constitutional and legal section. I remember her as being very reasonable very bright. Very Chipper, good sense of humor did it feel then that you were sitting there is a future governor future presidential candidate with another future presidential candidate not one bit. We were we were Grun doings. No no other word for it. Grun dunes the word that I actually don't know. Oh, it means a low level helper. And so what was the job? Well, our job was to analyze the evidence. We all listen to every minute of the Watergate tapes. So one of the possible articles of impeachment was the Watergate conspiracy so that became article one article, too, was Mr. Nixon's efforts to corrupt the FBI and the CIA and use them to try to divert, the course of the investigation or even to kill the investigation. At one point he suggested to Mr. Halloween, and Mr. Ehrlichman at the federal agencies should go to the people in charge of the Watergate investigation say that it was trenching on national security matters. And as a matter of national security should be shut down and should say, we are sitting in the Watergate right now is that strange? That's where they Alantic offices are I it's it's change to be in the Watergate. Yeah. I know exactly where that officers in the basement go visit not on this trip. But your job on the committee was to do what specifically day to day, what were you doing as part of both miss Rodham, and my job was to work on legal memorandum as to what constitutes grounds for impeachment and removal, specifically of president of the United States and were there points, where you were saying, oh, I'm surprised I wouldn't have thought that we would get to this conclusion that this would be grounds or that something you thought I may be going into it would look like the legal beginning was very interesting because John Doerr says the two of us Bill Hillary. He said, look, it's Friday afternoon. We gotta get a definition of what constitutes grounds for impeachment, so I won't BUSTER tops here. But why don't you have have the memo on my desk, Tuesday morning? So we spent the weekend in the library of congress looking for answers in the law books. There are no answers in the law books because it's a completely political process, and a political question that no. Court would ever touch. So, you know, come to find out the answer was in the newspapers in Philadelphia in seventeen eighty seven about the trial of Warren Hastings of viceroy of India, a contemporary trial for impeachment, and that was the closest we came to breathing breathing life into high crimes and misdemeanors. But there are all kinds of policy arguments about whether it had to be a crime that sort of thing. And, and, you know, I initially thought maybe it should have to be a crime, otherwise it's not serious and someone pointed out, I think it was Hillary Rodham, what if the president took up a life of pleasure in another country and refuse to come back to the United States. That would be an oath of his office, and not a crime because there's no statute. So it turns out that a violation of the oath of office is the path to analyze in terms of whether president is subject to removal, and ultimately, we can. Included that president Nixon in giving this phony instruction about national security to try to squash an investigation that impinged on him that he was violating his duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, which is a core function of the executive branch, the executive executes the laws, and our constitution depends on the laws. And I think Mr. Trump is smack dab in the middle of that, except much worse than Nixon. You mentioned that the newspaper articles, you pulled did you go back to the office with the old newspaper clippings took us weeks to figure out there were no answers in the law books. I remember early on. There was a fella named Joe woods who's in charge of the Watergate, part of the investigation, and, you know, everyone made fun of then congressman Gerald Ford who'd led an effort to impeach Bill Douglas from the supreme court earlier and congressman Ford said at the time and impeachable. Fences. Whatever majority of the house in two thirds of the Senate say it is. So everyone said, oh, poor Gerry, Ford, he played too much football in college without a helmet that sort of thing, and inter about April or may of that year after forty lawyers had almost gone blind looking for the answer to the legal question in love books, and everywhere, else, and arguing and making policy arguments. Joe woods held a press conference and among other things he said was, you know, that definition that congressman Ford offered it's really a terse, but profound definition of what constitutes an impeachable offense? I fast forward a little bit through your career after your in Washington for workout impeachment. You went back to Massachusetts. You ran for office. You lost your first run right? Yes. The whole Watergate experience have been like one big white collar conspiracy trial, so it's fascinating, and I've been in corporate law prior to going down to Washington. And when I came back, I told my. I want to go into litigation which I did. And then in one thousand nine hundred seventy eight four years later, I ran for state attorney general and my platform was, we have to make greater use of a statewide investigative grand jury to uncover white collar offenses, because they don't appear like a murderer or a Bank robbery on page one of the newspapers the next day. No one knows that a crime has been committed, so you need to investigate investigate investigate and that didn't do so good. I lost almost eighty twenty matter of fact, I hold the record both for the biggest loss and the biggest win in Massachusetts political history that a distinction, you're proud of. Yeah, I guess, so. But I enjoyed that campaign and a couple of years later Reagan got elected president. And I was about the only Republican in Massachusetts that had seen the inside of a courtroom very much. So I got appointed US attorney in that really was my big break, and, and then you do that. And then I you're you're elected governor in nineteen ninety start from. People not registering. You in the polls, essentially, I was not even an asterisk, when I started, and I had an eighty twenty loss under my belt. So no took me seriously and the man who had beaten me, eighty twenty was a candidate on the democratic side. So people said, what are you waiting for? And I said, because I want the office and you one, and I want you won you one coming in after Michael, Dukakis and by nineteen ninety four reelection. That's the one that's the biggest margin in Massachusetts history. That though is twenty plus years ago, right? Walk us through what you've been doing with yourself since then, one of the things that you did along the way was in two thousand six you can't politically came to New York and were your briefly candidate for governor in New York. I cover that rates a little bit. Then you did not come out of the state convention as the nominee. You also in two thousand sixteen where the vice presidential nominee on the libertarian ticket. But what else the those are the political things that have been what else is neither one of them took more than six months. So I've been in business since leaving the governorship much of it international, particularly the last fifteen years, representing technology and resource companies that do business around the globe. I've spent a lot of time in Asia, not just East Asia, but central Asia places like Kazakhstan, I spend a lot of time in Africa right now involved in the Democratic Republic of Congo, which is helping with the mining. One of the world's largest copper mines there. But what's your part of that you're not there the pig? I'm kind of a conciliatory to the CEO looking out for trouble. It has a lot more to having been headed the criminal division, the Justice department then with having been governor, because if you're a major foreign companies doing business in, in countries abroad, there's always a risk of Foreign Corrupt Practices act in somebody with their handout, and I can be quite convincing about the consequences of having your hand out in a situation like that. For example, we have a duty to put a press release about this tomorrow, unless it's withdrawn and you're going to have a long white beard, by the time you get out of prison. If you try to travel anywhere that has an extradition treaty with the United States, which means you can never go. See your girlfriend in the south of France, where I happen to know that all your swag is already buried because we will do our homework. I would imagine a lot of these countries. They look at you cross ways, when you say you can't take bribery can't pay a bribe. But, but that's why it helped having been head of the crew. Division of the Justice department, and, you know, particularly in Asia, people think someone who's been a governor a Senator or they think that their, their power never, never ebbs, because in Asia, it never does have whereas in the United States when you're out, you're out, you, you say you're from the party of Lincoln your line. What, what does that mean? It means that you appeal to the better Angeles of people's nature, as opposed to appealing to the worst impulses in them and trying to stir up those impulses by sowing division and strife in trying to set. Everybody's teeth on edge, which is exactly what Donald Trump does every day of the week. And, you know, I grew up in a time when the two parties in Washington worked cooperatively across the aisle divisions between the parties stopped at the water's edge. And I worked for Senator Javits of New York during that period of time and people like our Baker of ten. Was already in the Senate. Lamar Alexander was a staffer for him when I was a staffer for Senator jive. It's Chuck Percy spend elected. It was an exciting time in the Senate. And if somebody was going to give a big speech, the galleries and the Senate were full of people who wanted to hear the speech and see if they were persuaded by it and nowadays if someone's going to give speech, it's just an attack ad for television. So it's done in the chamber at three o'clock in the morning and the chambers dark and no one else's there. And the rules of C span or you cannot remove the camera from the person's face. So you can't see that the chamber is dark in this whole thing is just a political trick. I don't know when the last time that I was in the house, or Senate galleries, and actually saw somebody any kind of a crowd for a speech. It's been a long time. It's been a long time. I think things started to go downhill with a ninety four election. Which is it self quite a bitter bitter election? And I remember visiting with Newt Gingrich when he was the minority. Leader before he won that election. And the Democrats had a saloon door is office. So he couldn't have private meetings, and I don't know a couple dozen. I'm I'm just I'm just guessing. But I'm guessing that Newt didn't forget that when he got elected speaker the next year. Donald Trump said at a fundraiser about a year and a half ago. A lot of people don't know, that ABRAHAM LINCOLN was a Republican. Do you think he's part of the party of Lincoln? No, not at all. Not at all. Matter of fact in the eighteen fifties. The party, the whig party, which is the predecessor to Republican split in half and the southern half of the pro slavery, half was called the know nothings, and they were characterized by huge anti immigrant discrimination in by violent rallies and conspiracy theories, carbon copy, the Trump campaign in two thousand sixteen the other half the northern anti-slavery part joined a John C Freemont, and the free spoilers and for years later, they elected ABRAHAM LINCOLN, the president of the United States. So those are two factions and the Trump party today's the know nothing party, the other half, which seems to be slimmer today, but I think could come back is the party of Lincoln, which was called the free soil party. But then became known. As the Republican party. What would you think that Lincoln would make of Donald Trump, I think he would be appalled, Lincoln was deeply civilized and decent man as things. Stand now is is your campaign against Trump is at against what the Republican party has become. Well, those may be one of the same thing in Washington. It really I mean, there's a lot of things that I think need to be done that, I think the President, Mr Trump because of his disinterest in policy, and perhaps inability to come to grips with policy questions in an organized, and well, informed manner has, has no interest in, you know, I I'd like to balance the budget. I'd like to cut spending. I think that would send a good message internationally. I'd like to repair some of the irreparable damage that's been done to our relationship with our military allies. I'd like to return to a policy of free trade among nation. As opposed to slap on punitive tariffs. I and take that as negotiating position. And then go try and scary when to death. It's all in the art of the deal, you know, take completely unreasonable possession. And if your unreasonable enough, they'll have to come to you. That's not my idea of how president United States ought to act. But isn't that where the Republican party is right now, the Republican party? No, it's where Mr. Trump is. I mean, I'm I think a lot of Republicans in Washington aren't, even thinking beyond on my goodness. This guy we've got in there now he's opposed her, but he's our poser now and I can't rock the boat. Or maybe I won't get reelected. I'm not sure it goes any deeper than that. Some of these people are friends of yours. Yes. What do they tell you privately? I have conversations with Republicans in which I hear dismay and disapproval of things that Trump is doing if Trump himself and publicly don't hear that. So what are you hearing privately? And what do you say to them when, when you? You have been public about this, obviously, you're running against him. You have taken the stand, and you wish other people would know everybody. Everybody agrees with me in private keep doing what you're doing. Kid, it's a great service to the nation the country needs, you keep it up. Lamar Alexander is an old friend of yours Senator from Tennessee. He is not running for re election. He theoretically could say, more publicly what he wants to he disagrees. On some policies, you almost, you almost know, from public events that Lamar has to be dismayed, because he resigned from leadership in the Senate because he wasn't allowed to go across the aisle, and look for constructive solutions. So the Mars guy likes to get things done and very much worked across the aisle. He worked for Senator Howard, Baker when I worked for Senator Javits, and I've known him ever since, and he's just a prince of principle, fellow but he's, he's leaving the Senate. And he's of an age where you know, it's not surprising that he would leave the Senate, and I suppose he could take some party and Harrow shots over his back on the way out. But, you know, that's, that's not really his, his personalities is more studious person. Than that. If you want someone who's going to be a bull in the China, shop on my side, that's me. But, but there isn't a part of the reason why so much focus landed on just in a mosh. The congressman from Michigan who is now spoken out against Donald Trump and said there should be impeachment. Read the mullahs report, he read it. He's dismayed by it. Is that, that he is the only one he's the only Republican of all the Republican members of the house, and all the Republican in Washington? I mean, I'm two-term governor and I think I'm probably well beyond what congressman Masha said, in terms of my folks, certainly a Mr. Trump, but I welcomed his statement as well. I thought it was great. I just I it seems to be hard to believe that there is actual opposition to Donald Trump in the Republican party, when we don't hear of it other than these kinds of conversations, L privately, it's really going on. That's what they will. You know, the tail of the emperor's, new clothes using all those people who congratulated the emperor on his new clothes when they could see he was buck naked. You think they really think he had new closer? They just not want trouble. And they were. They were afraid the per would cut off their head if they say, you don't have any clothes on, and it's not really a tale of bravery, that you're telling. No, you know, and I think I think the worm will turn, I think if the president persistent saying, yeah, I'd take dirt. What I call the FBI. That's not how the world works, then, you know, the next day said, of course I would call the FBI. That's nothing. But a flat-out lie. You know, he says during the campaign where we need to have some punishment for women who seek an abortion. Oh, I never said that. A flat out liar. Is it a liar? Is it lies? Those our lives. We were talking before we started about you feel like the fever will break in the Republican party. That's what you're saying. The worm will turn not it may not, you know, I'm not sure it's going to break. I don't think the start of the, the break will be in the Republican party. I think it'll be in the the country at large. And my job is to expand the electorate of people who vote in the Republican primary. So I'm going to be reaching out to millennials to women voters. I think the recent abortion statutes are just unconscionable and it's not just suburban women who should be dismayed by that. It's all women because it implicates a question of gender equality. And to say that a woman who is raped has to carry the rapist child to term is just totally the chattel theory of women. It's viewing women as carriers and women should be insulted by that. And that is something that the Republican party and the administrator. Action of Mr. Trump is trying to engineer for the cynical purpose of getting to the supreme court and get Roe v. Wade overturned. So I think there should be an avalanche of female voters against Mr. Trump. And I think that's true in the primary, and you know, we got to elections here, someone who wants to vote against Mr. Trump can vote against him twice once in the primary, and once in the general and that goes for Democrats and independence and not just for Republicans. Do you think though that that's really there? I the, the idea that the Republican party is not Donald Trump's party seems far-fetched at this point. Well, I'm saying that I don't think the country is going to remain hypnotized to the extent is hypnotized. We were talking about Barack Obama in two thousand twelve campaign saying the fever would break. And it was not something that he actually truly believed he was talking about what had happened with the opposition to him, the tea party opposition. Aides would say afterwards that it was something that was good to say on the campaign trail, and the fever didn't break Donald Trump gets elected. I just wonder whether you are somewhere between an an idealist there, an optimist. And, and maybe a pollyanna thinking that things all. Well, it's possible. I suppose, I, I do have my view, which is that the American public is not so stupid that they're going to remain hypnotize by a man who's a huckster or lower than a huckster, but he won. I mean, if you think whatever you think that we're not, we're not talking about whether he won. We're talking. About whether he's gonna win again or be removed either before, then by the impeachment process, or at the ballot box. My view is he's going to be removed. One way or the other. Quick break and come back with more. With governor Bill. This episode radio. Atlantic is brought to you by grow with Google when Calvin Sanders was promoted to head of housekeeping at the Redmond hotel, in Birmingham, Alabama. She didn't know how she'd get the digital skills she needed to succeed. But after a month of free computer classes at the local library, she learned enough to feel confident on the job grow with Google provides librarians in Birmingham and around the nation with free online, skilling programs and tools for their communities. Learn more at Google dot com slash grow. And we're back, one of the other major players in what the Republican party is now as Mitch McConnell, the majority leader, do you think he's a force for good? Well, I've been intrigued by Mitch over the years. I know reasonably. Well, and I certainly supported the senatorial Republicans, including at times when he was in charge of them. I I do think he plays a long game deep game in politics. So he's a good analyst of how to get things done politically on the other hand, I was not in favor of what he said, when President Obama got elected, which is my job is to make sure this president fails. The wondering president. I remember my father, who's a Republican win Jack Kennedy was elected. He certainly was no fan of Jack Kennedy, but you know he proposed a toast at our family dinner to president Kennedy who has a big job. It does seem that if we're talking about the Republican party, and Donald Trump were not just talking about Donald Trump. We're talking about what Paul Ryan did a speaker, what Kevin McCarthy as minority leader is doing now. What Mitch McConnell has been doing as majority leader? No, no. I think I think Trump is had a bad influence on the party and actions have been taken and not taken as a result of the position of Donald Trump sort of astride, the Republican party. No, it's totally unacceptable state of affairs. What's it stand for at this point? What is what is the Republican party now? You mean apart from Donald Trump, I'm gonna I'm afraid when people think of the Republican party, these days, they think of Donald Trump, and my aim is to change that offer them an alternative. You're beyond saying that Trump should be impeached. You said he's gone beyond Nixon, you call him to resign. So what do you say to the Republicans who are sticking by him through all this? Well, you know, I, I know I'm not going to be able to persuade everybody not those who are dug in with Trump. That's why I say my strategy is not to try to charm his base. It's to enlarge the electorate and go around the Doug in Trump supporters. And I'm not saying everyone that supports. Donald Trump is not a good American. You know, he's, he's got a lot of energy. He has a raw animal cunning, you know, if I thought he could really deal with the complex issues that are at the door. The president United States. I I'd feel differently but I don't I don't think he's up to it. And you know he projects a lot. And, and I think at some level he knows, you know. You know what's going on inside his head, which is why he proclaims himself a stable genius, because, you know, people are saying is unstable. He must know at some level that he is unstable. And he said, you think Donald Trump knows that he's unstable? Yeah, I do. That's why he says, I'm a stable genius, and he says, I'm Warton genius. And he's such a genius that he had Michael Cohen, his lawyer threatened to sue the university of Pennsylvania, if they ever made either Donald Trump's grades or his aptitude scores public. That's the Mark of a stable genius. All right. Would you you worked at the Justice department, your prosecutor, would you think that he has committed some crimes here? Would you wanna see him prosecuted out of office? Oh, absolutely. No, I'm devoted my career to the rule of law. And to keeping politics out of law enforcement, and one thing is clear about Donald Trump. Is he wants politics, all over law enforcement because he wants law enforcement and the Justice department to be his? Personal law firm and watch out for his political skirts that was clear from his first conversation with Jeff Sessions, and it goes on to this day, the political path that you've laid out for yourself is to rely on crossover votes, and in New Hampshire, that's people who are not necessarily registered as Republicans, but can because of the way the laws are they can vote in the Republican primary, there twenty states that we're talking about twenty states permit crossover putting does that mean that you need to convince people who are not Republicans come into the Republican primary, two to win the wouldn't offend me, you know, in seventeen out of those twenty states, a democrat can take a Republican ballot of the state legislatures really don't care. What your background is let you vote in either primary want to? And I've had a lot of Democrats tell me that they're going to come and vote in the Republican party, so they can vote against Trump twice. And then they're going to go home and take a long hot shower and reregister as Democrats the same day, does that mean that then you'd be trying to win the Republican primary, without Republican voters? No. Republican voters to is just I'm not going to tell other people stay out of the Republican primary, because I would like to enlarge the size of the Republican party, so maybe it wouldn't be so, you know, maniacally focused on just one goal which is self perpetuation. You know, the, the policies that Mr. Trump talks about really are aimed directly at among other people younger voters, the younger voters are going to pay the price for all these deficits, the younger voters are going to pay the price if nothing is done about climate change in the glow. The polar ice cap melts, and all of our shorelines are overrun and why President Trump says, oh, climate change hoax, a one word policy like his one word policy for immigration wall. And you know, he he aims, his statements at a very low level of understanding, and I think it's a level he's comfortable with. So is the idea that there is this like, silent majority of the Republican party out there, too. Take a phrase from Richard Nixon that is going to rise up and that will surprise everybody. I mean, obviously, you hope it. Well, so majority of the country, you know, like I say, I'm not I'm not trying to charm Donald Trump's base. Right. But the Democratic Party thinks that whoever it's nominee is going to be able to capitalize on where Trump is, and that that's for them and not for you or someone else, right? Because one way to read that there are twenty three Democrats running for president is that they see a big opportunity here, and they think that the democratic nominee is in good shape to be the president. And then by that measure the way to read that you are, the only Republican running is that there is a lot of skepticism that someone could beat Trump, at least in a primer. Okay, we'll let people view me as their insurance policies they if they want to I can tell you one thing, if I was running as an independent and not as a Republican, I would not be getting any love from any, any Democrats are. Independence. Because they would think all those votes would come out of their column. What I wonder though? And maybe this is it's not it's not the easiest thing to run for president and there's a lot of travel. There's a lot of phone calls. A lot of personal time that gets eaten up, by the way, I don't mind that I enjoyed that. Do you think you're going to win? You actually think you're gonna win. I think I have a good shot at winning the New Hampshire primary. And I think once that happens all hell is going to break loose all hell because you think it will crack and Donald Trump will be vulnerable, all of a sudden. Yeah. I think he'll be vulnerable and all other states who knows who else is going to get in. But maybe he's got everybody's so cowed and no one else will get in. And then I think I can win. And you think that there's, there's a part of your brain right now that thinks President Bill weld sitting behind the desk in the Oval Office. That's coming. I'm so sorry to say, but I've said for a long time that I could start Monday, and you could there's thinking that you could and that it's going to happen. No, no, my my, my view is the past victory leads starts in New England goes through the mid Atlantic states picks up the more, you know, wide open areas of the west and the last question is the rust belt states and do I think I could win Wisconsin. Absolutely. That's the home of Bob, La Jolla and Pennsylvania. Absolutely spent a lot of time, there, a lot of friends there. How would you campaigning issue? Can I, I would have Romney backing there be quite certain? That would be Ronna Romney McDaniel. No, no, no. I mean, that's the thing about the other Romney Mitt Romney I remember him now. Senator from Utah. So that's what I'm saying. His his connection to Michigan is has tapered off. No, it's just he's got a legacy connection there as I was saying earlier, I've a lot of legacy relationships with former governors, who I served with and worked with over the years. Mitt Romney's another friend of yours who hasn't spoken up though that much he has expressed his dismay but hasn't gone further than that. What do you make of him? Well, I think mid is a great public service and we'll do a lot of good things in the Senate. Do you think his private sense of things is different from his public sense of things? Oh, he'd be among those who I think would privately applaud what I'm doing. Sure. Has he you know, I haven't talked to him in a while, but that would be my read on him based on past conversations, even before the election of two thousand sixteen. And if you don't win the Republican primary, you are not going to be a Trump supporter. Correct. Would you support a democrat run against them? I don't know. Have to wait and see who the democrat. I would not support Mr. Trump over for the reasons we've discussed earlier in your. You have made your and dissatisfaction with Elizabeth Warren policy proposals clear. I think Bernie Sanders is obviously not someone that you are fan of and his policies. Another democrat could you see that happening? You know, I think there's not enough hours in the day from your handicap, the democratic field. And I don't even know it that. Well, the lot to keep up with it. So must keep. Yeah. Yeah. I do have to say. The mayor of south bend is he's along cool drink of water. He's a nice nice fresh arrival on the scene. Let's say our people judge fan. Yeah. I wonder what he would make that maybe I'll have to ask them. I I'll see him campaigning out soon. But governor Bill weld, thanks for being with us here on radio. Linda, my pleasure. Thanks so much. For this week of radio. Landik. Thanks. Kevin Townsend for producing an editing this episode and to Catherine wells the executive producer for Atlantic podcasts. Our theme music is the battle hymn of the Republic, as interpreted by John battiste can find show notes and past episodes at the Atlantic dot com slash radio. If you like the show rate, review us and apple podcasts and subscribe, and your preferred podcast, and thanks for listening.

President Trump Republican party president Senate president Nixon whig party United States Massachusetts Donald Trump Washington Google President Bill weld Hillary Rodham Senator FBI Lamar Alexander China Trump congressman
Uh Oh, It Looks Like this Story Has Legs| American Electorate Podcast EP  35

The American Electorate

36:53 min | 1 year ago

Uh Oh, It Looks Like this Story Has Legs| American Electorate Podcast EP 35

"Audio presents the American electorate. Podcast your weekly home for non partisan breakdown of the news as well as thought provoking discussions on culture and the American political process. And here's your host Gregory Anderson Greetings. Everyone welcome to the show. We have a fantastic podcast lineup for you today. There are some updates in the Joe Biden. Sexual assault allegations situations. It's about that on the death toll in the United States from the crowbars has skyrocketed to fifty thousand. So we're going to dig into that a little bit and there's some more information about the CDC saying that there aren't new symptoms of the virus Wounds speak on that for a second Illinois seems to be reaching its peak. So that's a good thing. That's my home state. So we're talk about that I WanNa back talk a little bit more about some perspectives on the immigration. Pause if you will We're GonNa talk alone by that. And then we are going to dig into this whole trump. Suggesting people should inject disinfectant. So I'm not too excited to dig into it because I think it's incredibly stupid but We're going to talk about that and plus I'm GonNa play for you the whole clip to give you As much context as possible. Of course I'm not complaining the entire Briefing that of course you'll be linked to the show by you. Get what I mean but before we dig into all of those interrupting regular scheduled program to remind you that the former is changing. We talked about this last month on the twenty third where we said but sensual Monday Wednesday Thursday. This country will actually be Monday. Wednesday and Friday. Monday and Friday will be more recap of the news. What you normally gate like in today's podcast when they will be focused on one particular topic related to culture or the American political process as we talk about in the opening I wanted to get back to those kind of episodes. A Wednesday's going to be a very fascinating topic. So I can't wait for Wednesday but yes. The schedule is changing Monday. Wednesday and Friday Monday and Friday episodes will be from thirty to forty minutes. Long episodes will be twenty five to thirty minutes long. But I'm not closing the door on potentially having more episode out and just that Monday Wednesday Friday. Of course we have important. Things happen normally on Wednesday so I may have a an extra episode waiting for you on Wednesday or same thing with Tuesday or Thursday so Monday Wednesday Friday are like I said it's the official schedule no matter what you will get an episode out on those three days but there are essential for extra episodes but yeah. That's my day back to the show. I've been reluctant to talk about the Kim Jong. Hoon situation The news broke before I released cast and I didn't talk about it I I was. I was very skeptical. That is real because there's been so many conflicting reports and I was worried about talking about it before we had concrete information by. Let's talk a little bit about it. article on CNN amid mounting speculation. South Korea says Kim Jong UN is alive and well South Korea. Continue to pour water mounsey speculation about the health. North Korea's leader Khun Gentleman telling CNN his alive and well our government positions firm chunk The top foreign policy adviser to South Korea President Moon told. Cnn is alive and well. He hasn't been staying in the area. Since April thirteenth no suspicious movements have been detected so far questions raised about comes wellbeing after he missed the celebration of his grandfather's birthday on April fifteenth. Cna reported earlier this week that the United States is monitoring intelligence that Kim is in grave. Danger Surgery according to A. Us official another official told CNN. Monday concerns about. Kim's health are credible but the severity is hard to assess now. That's because of the lockdown information that they have in Korea. It's absolutely ridiculous. Just listen to clip. I got it from the New York Times Youtube Edge but details from the secretive regime are hard to come by. They have such control over information. They are so good at restricting access. So how do North Korea watchers tried to discern? What's happening during moments like this? We spoke to several experts to understand some of the main techniques that they rely on. Satellite images are a key tool analysts. Use Them to look for changes or patterns. That can help explain what might be happening in the country and to track Kim Jong UN's movements take the central party complex for example the regime's headquarters the Central Party complex located right next to where they have the military parades it Pat Yang. It is called North Korea's Forbidden City. Because you cannot go there without showing you're right you've gotta go four lines of security or you go to the actual building but it is where all. North Korea's top officials have residences but from above there are ways around the secrecy. You could tell if Kim Jong is in the office based on guard appointments around the buildings like with the president in the White House. You can see there's state security presence by the Secret Service Complex also includes Kim's reported personal medical clinic but in April we detected a change. The clinic had just been demolished. Making okay so talk about that situation. I'm willing to wait for more information to be confirmed. I don't want to rush out information. That is not true. Reason that we're talking about this of course is because this is going to have major ramifications on a global scale Of course we already have too much to worry about okay next story. Illinois officials say the State is hitting its covert nineteen peak. And that's actually good news from April Twenty four two thousand twenty for weeks. Elway officials have said of the state is bending the curve on the cove nineteen pandemics rate of growth. Now stays leaders say they think. Illinois is reaching the peak based on the models elnora researchers that officials unveiled Thursday. Here's some more information. What do the model say models can look like a lot of different things from new positive tests results? Two Hospital beds usage to the estimate. Ep states showed two models Thursday. That look at the number of deaths. Due to the novel Corona Virus One model from the University of Illinois Suggests Kobe. Nineteen deaths have already peaked in Illinois. The other by the University of Chicago projects a peak arriving on May six according to the data released on Friday. Why now in earlier the state knowledge that many projection models including one developed by two university had anticipated a peak in early to mid April? The reason the new prediction experts say. Is that the stay at home. Or in social distancing have slow the spread of the criers natural effect of the curve. Bending that Chicago officials discussed last week Causes Depths have continued to increase but more slowly. Which is what you want with a disease. Taking longer to spread that means the peak will arrive later with lower numbers of patients and deaths aside benefit. Hospitals won't see a flood of patients all at once. Leaving enough beds ventilators to go around. Even if he arrives later governor Jay Pritzker sites this kind of reason as the key reason he issued a stay at home order. And why is keeping it in place? Prisco side a one calculation that estimated the state would. I've seen fourteen times more. Deaths have not issued a stay at home order it also concluded if the state were to look to order on Friday. The state would see a spike nearly that bad by mid-june peak or plateau. The Governor Chicago's mayor and other public health officials of said the peak may look more like a plateau that last a few weeks of Ellen Charts on Thursday Pressler pointed to the largest variation and a number of deaths each day at are tied to cope in nineteen so although the projections offer estimates each day projected deaths the actual figures will likely fluctuate wildly relatively swings up and down sometimes dramatically. I fact that can't be captured by a simple median line. He said Chicago Mayor Lori. Lightfoot inherit earlier Daily News Conference sounded a similar theme a month ago in March. We were thinking this week would be the week that we would peak but when I think you have see now is not so much. Peaking but a flattening. That's a good thing but we don't know at this point how long it's going to take to not just fighting but decrease lightfoot said so I'm GONNA leave you link to the rest of the coach. Which really isn't much if you want to read. That's very good news. Especially for my state here An Illinois are staying home or was extended to the end of March and starting may first. We will be required to wear masks when we go out in public. So that's going to be new. Actually just ordered one off Amazon. So so that's good but this is very good. News on a seems like hopefully listening starts coming down by June runoff from all sides video supporting Joe Biden's sexual assault allegations services as hell. I was on April. Twenty six two thousand twenty video surface. That appears to show the mother. Tara Reid the former staffer who accused four vice president and current presidential candidate Joe Biden of sexual assault calling in an episode of Larry King Live In nineteen ninety-three to ask for advice by her daughter situation the clip which aired on CNN around the time of the allegation features reads mother asking what a staffer would do. Besides go to the press in Washington while leading to the problems. Her daughter had with a prominent center outlets both left and right covered the video first reported by the intercept and later my CNN and the ensuing reactions mini framed as the latest piece of evidence and reads allegations against Joe Biden which have dogged the presumptive Democratic nominee since becoming public last month the sources where the intercept Fox News and CNN. Phone calls on this very important topic. I guess for me United States Senator Howard Baker Richard Alan former national security adviser and Lois Ramana of the Washington. Post San Luis Obispo California. Hello yes can on I'm wondering what A staffer Went to go to the press. In Washington. My daughter has left there Afterwards prominent senator and could not get through with her problems at all the only thing she could have done with go to the press and she chose not to do without respect frame or she had a story to gel but out of respect for the person she worked for. She didn't sell it at whatever. These are. The people who do come to the lowest Romano's steph worker. Who Says I want to let you know what's going on with the guy down the hall and allow obligation kill that? This public officials should be accountable. If it's something lowers the president so I do want to Read some of his article that was from politico on dot com on how this ties to the metoo movement. The article was titled by Sexual Assault Allegation Royals mutual movements. And then we're GONNA play that clip so you can hear it out in its entirety. This article was written on April. Twenty Third Two thousand twenty in two thousand seventeen actress. Melissa Milano became one of the early advocates of the Hashtag metoo movement when she tweeted if you've been sexually harassed or assaulted right. Metoo as a reply to this tweet legions. Women went public with their stories in response to and a half years later. Milano took to twitter again. This time to explain herself described silence over the sexual allegations against presumptive Democratic presidential nominee. Joe Biden. I just don't feel comfortable throwing away. A decent man that I've known for fifteen years and this time of complete chaos without there being a complete and thorough investigation Milano said an interview which she linked the backlash was swept. Progressives and feminists accuse Milano being a hypocrite and turning their back on read because she supported Biden after making it more socially acceptable for sexual assault survivors to come forward and helping bring you down. Dozens of powerful man. The HASHTAG tomb is facing a new challenge how to grapple with the allegations against Biden without tearing itself apart celebrity meet to activists have publicly fought over read claims supporters of president trump. Who has been accused of sexual assault and misconduct by multiple? Women have seized on Biden and other Democrats past comments about believing women accusation as proof of Hakkari and victims. Fear the what they see is a botched handling of allegations by fellow activists. The media politicians have threatened when movements hardest fought gains. The debate is complicated by another factor. So worried about the prospect of inadvertently advancing the political fortunes of a president who has been accused of sexual assault himself and is deeply lowest by feminists and Democrats Discussing Behavior Christine Blasi. Ford had to deal with from the right. Is the same disgusting behavior that Tara Reid is having to deal with from many on the left Sarah and Massey one of the numerous woman who accused Hollywood film producer. Weinstein of sexual misconduct so far is in the world. Washington's and those who have not come forward publicly those who have not sure to what their family or have gone to the police on mental. Help they see this and silences him. Weeds allegations against Biden which he adamantly denies which I don't remember him ever being asked about it have even led to scrutiny of the Times Up Legal Defense Fund which was founded in two thousand eighteen to help victims of sexual harassment and assault. Hoops said it helped connect read to attorneys but determined that it cannot fund a lawyer or public relations for her because Biden is a candidate for office and believed its nonprofit. Status could be therefore threatened. Now if you remember if we go back to the last time we talked about this or when we first talked about this when the story was breaking we talked about the the managing director for the PR firm. That represent time's up is nita done. Who was top advisor to the Biden Campaign? So this Kinda looks a little weird but I'M A link to that headline round up for that. That Heller. So you can go and look up more information on that but also the article that. I just got your arm reading some of but let's shift over really quick to on the intercept article which was from the original Haruna. We're talking about. Their article is titled New Evidence Supporting Credibility of Tarez allegation against you're buying emerges there's rem. I rang grim now. Here's one thing that I thought was fascinating about the story Ryan Grim. The president who broke the story about tar read also broke the story about Christine Blasi Ford so had think I believe it's hard to question his motives. He sounds like he's been anything but consistent When reporting situations like this but are on read a little bit further down the article where it says the call also calls into question. The credibility of Byron's denial read said that she filed a complaint against Biden's harassment was Marianne Baker effectively. The office manager the by office. The Biden campaign released a statement from Baker which she said neither read nor any other employees had ever complained about improper behavior. In all my years I've worked for senator by I'm never witnessed or heard of or received any reports of any inappropriate behavior period. Not from this read now from anyone. Baker said in the campaign statement these clearly. False allegations are in complete contradiction to both the inner workings of our center office. And the man that I know and worked so closely for with for decades for Baker Statements. To Be True. Read would have had to have lied to her friend. Her brother her mother about having complained to the Biden's office. There's no obvious reason we'd would make up the story to those closest to her about the Senate office not taking bitings harassment. Seriously while at the same time resisting pressure to go to the press. Rita said the complaint that she filed was related to harassment. She said she faced and did not address the assault. The complaint was left with buy INS office and if it's still exist it's with binds papers at the University of Delaware School recently told reporter. Rich Queue of the papers will remain sealed until two years after Biden. Lease PUBLIC OFFICE SO I. I'm sorry I have to sums up the I mean maybe part of the story may not be true and of course like you know. I believe in you process and you know. Maybe by dint Do this private. If there's papers in the office that they're saying that they will remain sealed until two years after he retired from public life. I have to believe that. Maybe there's something there who knows. Maybe it's something else embarrassing but like it's very easy to Release some of the Information. Redact the other information that we don't That he apparently went went out. There's GonNa be fascinating that eventually when we actually hear about this but I definitely the story is really really just heating up okay. So next hand runner come from all sides it's title grown avars. Death surpasses fifty thousand in the US. From April Twenty Fifth Thousand Twenty Number de stemming from the chronic infections in the United States have passed fifty thousand this week representing a quarter of the world's known covert nineteen death toll. According to data pile John Hopkins University. The country has seen fifty one thousand to seventeen deaths as a Friday and more than eight hundred ninety infections. A number a number of the experts say is likely higher due to lack of testing and we talked about this with the Stanford study how found out. Portion of the population already had it and that somehow already had antibodies coverage of the new milestone was fairly straightforward. Which is something you'd like to see you towards everything with many outlets left right and center noting that the news coincides state and federal efforts to live corona virus restrictions and reopened local economies in the coming weeks. Sources us were CNN newer promise and the USA Today. Now I did mention that the CDC did believes more symptoms. Those are chills repeated shaking. What chills muscle pain headaches? Sore throats and lost Taylor spell. I'm someone who routinely has headaches so They may be for another health that she has something to look out for as well. There has been plenty of conversation about antibodies. And would they even help I know the. Who had just came out Recently and said there is no Link between people having antibodies not being to be reinfected. This from Europe roasted says some governments have suggested that the detection of antibodies serve as a basis for an immunity past four or risk free certificate said the W. H. O. Is currently no evidence of people who have have recovered from Colbert nineteen? Antibodies are protected from second infection which conscience which contradicts other information that we've had according this video. I got from the USA Today. Scientists across the globe are racing to find a way to treat Kobe. Nine thousand nine. A new much talked about treatment involves using convalescent plasma from people who've recovered from the disease it's FDA approved and the hope is go survivors have antibodies. That will help patients sick with the disease to fight it off convalescent. Plasma is basically the liquid part of blood that comes from recovered patient. Antibodies are proteins. Found in your blood. That can help your body neutralize or even destroyed disease-carrying organisms. Here's the important part. Antibodies are specific to a certain disease for example. If you had chicken pox as a child then you probably have. Antibodies in your blood. That will help you. Fight off another case of chickenpox it is believed to be same for Kobe. Nineteen scientists believe survivors. Have antibodies to fight off the virus for it to work. Doctors will take survivors blood. That should have those antibodies in it and transfers it into someone who sick with cove in nineteen. Its Way to treat people and hopefully help them get over the illness before a vaccine is developed. Scientists have used this treatment successfully in the past including against Spanish influenza during the nineteen eighteen pandemic and the SARS outbreak in two thousand. And two. And it's already being used to fight Kobe. Nineteen at some hospitals in the USA. Preliminary data from scientists in Italy and China suggest this approach could be successful so hopefully. I'm hoping for the LINER TO BE TRUE. And that way we can open up a little sooner which is Better okay next story. I said we were going to kind of double back to that Trump executive order perspectives trump immigration executive is headed around us from April Twenty Fourth Two Thousand Twenty President Donald Trump's executive order suspending some immigration to the United States has raised both praise and criticism. The president and the White House say the executive orders aimed at curbing the spread of covert nineteen cases. Some level rate voices immigration advocates. Say Trump is using its pandemic fuel is reportedly xenophobic agenda. Some writer voices in anti immigration activists. Say that the order doesn't go far enough in question why. The president didn't take similar action sooner. The sources used or CNN Reuters and Washington examiner. So let's go a little bit deeper into the articles written on April Twenty Third Two thousand twenty inside trump's proposal to suspend legal immigration amid the Krona Virus Crisis President Trump issued executive order on Wednesday that temporary blocks some foreigners outside the United States from -taining US permanent residency. A move he said would protect. American workers amid the economic fallout from the crow virus outbreak executive order included the number of exemptions and was not a full suspension of legal immigration. As suggested by trump. Tweet late Monday night. Here's what trump's order does and does not do who will be affected. The order blocks the foreigners outside of the United States from settling permanently in the United States by attaining. What is informally known as a Green Card? The measure applies to both requests and permanent resident based on employment in the United States request based on family ties but contains a number of exemptions or does not affect people come into the United States on non-immigrant visas including tourists and business travellers. It also does not affect workers such as farm labourers entering the United States on temporary visas and school workers on h. One B. visas foreigners already in the United States and seeking to adjust a status will not be blocked by the latest measure. The vast majority of employment based Green Cards are granted to people inside the United States thereby not covered by the ban. Most family based green cards are granted to people outside the country. However the immediate impact of the order is not clear since the United States consults around the world have already shuttered most of the Immigration Processing Services. So who is exempt? Doctors and nurses and the healthcare professional will be exempt as well as prospective immigrants come into the country perform essential work come back to corona virus as to turn by federal agencies measure also. She was immigrants from applying for a B five visa program which allows foreigners willing to invest large sums of money into US projects that create or preserve jobs to permanent residence. The order makes an exemption for spouses of US citizens and unmarried children under the age of twenty one. The measure contained several exemptions including general exemption for any alien who any alien whose entry would be in national interest. How long the suspension will last. So this is what I find interesting. The suspension will begin just before midnight on Thursday and last sixty days after that trump will review US economic conditions and decide whether it should be extended further extensions could potentially be longer than sixty days. Trump said this week. So back in Heller. Roundup from offsides word says some level rate of voices and immigration advocates. Say Trump is using this pandemic to fuel before xenophobia agenda that I mean even objectively you can say is not totally unfounded. Here's this interesting. Music came from the Washington Post Stuff. Miller long-term vision for trump's temporary immigration order according to private call with support is trump senior policy advisor. Stephan Miller told the White House supporters and a private call at the president's new executive order. Curbing immigration will usher in the kind of broader long-term changes to American society. He has advocated for years. Even though the sixty day measures were hopefully characterized as a pause during a carnival. Endemic Miller the chief architect of the President's immigration agenda. One of his longest serving and most trusted adviser spoke to a group of trump's arrogance. Thursday off the record call which is of course not authorized Henry about the new executive order which had been signed off the night before although though the White House I seen the move as something that would resonate. With trump's political base the administration instead it was facing criticism from immigration hardliners. Who are disappointed that the order does not apply to temporary foreign workers despite trump pitching it as helping to protect American jobs. Only you to that article from the Washington Post that you want to dig deeper and to that. This one is arguing. Kinda covered. Acknowledgments little Late to begin with By it I thought it was a fascinating that there's that maybe this is the beginning of something that's going to happen as in ratcheting down the amount of immigration that we've had lately so this is something that of of course. I'm willing to cover and follow up as more information becomes available okay. So here's this story. Trump as if disaffected sunlight can treat krona virus. This roundup comes from April twenty fourth down toy already an issue with the headlines. Because as you're going to hear an eclipse this actually comes from Bill Brian. Who is the secretary for Science and technology at the D H S so again? Here's the roundup. During Thursday White House briefing President Donald Trump as homeland security official if disaffected or something could be used as direct treatment for Kobe. Nineteen Corona virus. The discussion create an uproar over possible krona virus curious let the critics accused trump of pushing fire treatments. Many left radio outlets frame. Trump's comments suggestions and tied the discussion to deaths associated with hydraulic chloroquine. And anytime later crucially touted by trump as a potential treatment. We talked about that Weeks ago some right rated. Let's put the statements in context pushing back on the notion. That trump was making reckless suggestions while debunking false and misleading statements about the discussion other reporting outlets focused on major cleaning supply companies like lifestyle urging people to not use their products as medicine the sources us where the hill the daily wire and NBC. So I saw this immediately gotta headache. I mean literally and turned off I follow and went to Went back to lane dot because I thought that this was this whole story was just ridiculous and the sounds sounds like something stupid that trump would say so Africa couple of days. I did decide to Listen to the whole thing in context and I. I don't know I want you to listen to it. I want you to listen to the whole thing the whole thing in its entirety or so and I want you to hear. They'll talking's and trump brian. We're also testing disinfectants readily available. We've tested bleach. We've tested Eyeso- profile alcohol on virus specifically in Saliva or in respiratory fluids. And I can tell you that bleach will kill the virus. In five minutes. Isopropyl alcohol will kill the virus in thirty seconds and that's with no manipulation no rubbing just bring it on and leaving a go you rub. It goes away even faster. We're also looking at other disinfectants specifically looking at the covert nineteen virus in saliva. A question that probably some of you are thinking of. If you're totally into that world which I find to be very interesting. So supposedly we hit the body with a tremendous whether it's ultraviolet or just very powerful light and I think you said that has been checked. But you're gonNA tested and then. I said supposing you brought the light inside the buddy you can which you can do either through the skin or In some of the way and I think you said you're GONNA test that to sounds interesting right. And then I see the disinfectant knocks it out in a minute minute and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside your or almost cleaning because you see gets on the lungs and it does a tremendous number. So it'll be interesting to check that so that you're gonNA have to use medical doctors with but it sounds it. Sounds interesting to me. So we'll see but the whole concept of the light that weight kills it in one? Minute that's That's pretty powerful Steve. The president mentioned the idea of clear systems. There's no scenario person. Is there you know. I hear a find that we haven't studied. We don't do that within that lab our labs talked about almost Clinton sterilization of an area. Maybe it works. Maybe it doesn't work but it certainly has a big so. Let's say he was actually being sarcastic. Which I myself have a very sarcastic person. Up to the point where People at my job hard time knowing when I'm being serious when it comes to certain situations at least so that much I get and I'm almost willing to give him the benefit out and saying that he was potentially being sarcastic but even if that was the case why who benefits from this at all now the real question is I mean. Do I mean if you believe that he wasn't being sarcastic a serious? Do you honestly believe he was watching. People to inject themselves was bullied. Church some other disinfection to potentially kill themselves now. A lot of people think he's actually Hitler so I would suppose maybe some people may have that point of view but I'm going to go out with zoom. That's not. He wasn't being malicious about this. But it was so something very stupid to say is just minutes words about it was very fucking stupid To even suggest that even jokingly Especially at a time where people are looking to him for guidance. Look are looking to him for a sense of calm especially for someone like trump who believes that everything that the media says is fake news. Why give them ammunition? I have no idea so I'm again. I'm not please statements although I mean taking things into context. I don't believe there as bad as they're being made out to be okay so final portion of the show. I want to talk about this sort of revisionist history. That's going on when it comes to. Who said what who did. What in January leading up to this pandemic now we talked about this Of A couple times will several times really since been going on during this pandemic people saying well. They were on top things when they weren't and as we play close from here on the show The right definitely especially. People Fox had their issues being truthful about. What's going on telling you that this is all some sort of conspiracy and we talked about that. There's also an also left on how they doubtless thing in early January so we all kind of screwed up but as I kind of hinted earlier in the show. I know that the Democrats are looking at the polls in realizing. That's that the China thing will be a major issue with the election. Which is why Joe Biden. Created that that he had seen trump has been soft on China. Which I mean I I. I don't see anyone can actually claim that seeing how he has a long history of talking about China and starting a trade war with China but I just want to civically situations like this kind of update people on what's going on so this was Nipple she shoes on CNN. And he asked her about the The travel ban from January one thing. One point of clarify clarification. I was wondering vice president. Joe Biden's Clinton campaign told me earlier. This month that he supported president. Trump's parcel travel restrictions on January thirty first blocking four nationals from China from coming to the United States. Do you agree that it was the right move by President Trump? At the time I let. Let's go into the future. Okay actually tens of thousands of people were still allowed in from China so it wasn't as it is described as this great moment though there were Americans coming back with green card holders coming back but there were tens of thousands to if you're going to shut the door because you have an evaluation of of an epidemic. Then shut the door so of course. That was Jake Tapper asking her about the travel ban in January Now the thousands of people are still in were American citizens and she kind of there at the tries to kind of brush off way we do remember. When trump decided to not let those cruise ships come back here her dockyard gene nited States And the blowback from that we we we have to be honest like he would have faced a ridiculous amount of criticism mindfully especially from me and from a lot of other people had he and not allow those people to come back here. How did he just let them stranded at the airport? And what I mean like he did with or the cruise ships so I mean this idea that he was opposed to tell them that they couldn't come. Home is a little not only little. It is very very ridiculous. I'm just saying objectively speaking. That's crazy 'cause 'cause we all would have criticized him again rightfully so for not allowing American citizens to come home so I'm just Kinda in the podcast. There a will be back on Wednesday with the start of the new formats. We're going to talk about moral dilemmas very interesting you research study. That came out just a few days ago and I'm surprised. Not Too many people picked up on it and it it. It's very fascinating and we're going to dig into in detail on Wednesday so I'll see you then thank you for listening to the American Electorate. Podcast please head over to itunes. Google play cast box overcast or wherever you are listening to this podcast and leave a rating and review. Thanks again for listening.

United States president Joe Biden President Trump CNN assault Trump Illinois Kim Jong South Korea Kim Jong UN Kobe official Washington China American Electorate CNN North Korea vice president CDC
Threats, Bombs and Stings | S2E5

Mobbed Up: The Fight for Las Vegas

40:04 min | Last week

Threats, Bombs and Stings | S2E5

"Managing your company's risk is a tough job. but you don't have to do it alone at pro group management. We are with you all the way. The leader and workers comp programs for self insured groups in nevada programs teams here to work for you from establishing safety standards to helping you find the best coverage for your company. We are with you every step of the way cutting red tape and monitoring regulatory changes so you can focus on your business. Group management has been helping nevada businesses for over twenty years. Let us help yours find out how to have. Pro group management work for you. Visit our website at p g m envy dot com to receive a free cost savings analysis. Now that's pgn. V dot com or. Call our las vegas office at seven. Zero two seven four zero forty-three eighty pro group management workers. Comp that works for you from las vegas review journal studio welcome to season two of mobbed up the fight for las vegas presented by progressive management additional sponsorship provided by l. Cortez and a golden steer a heads up before we get started mahdub up contains explicit content such as strong language and depictions of violence including murder. Please be advised at this. Gas might not be suitable for all audiences newly sworn in nevada governor. Robert list barely has time to put up pictures in his office in early. Nineteen seventy nine when his life is threatened. Armed with a mass of fbi wiretap transcripts. The young republican governor is embarking on one of the most critical tests in the history of the state. Breaking the mobs grip on the world famous. Las vegas strip list had been involved in some earlier battles with the mom as the state's attorney general but now is taking the fight to a higher level. We've put everybody on notice that we were going to revoke all their licenses and they had to find buyers quickly so they all one by one they did. Some of them were a little more challenging than others and the aladdin being one everybody else voluntarily sold and we processed every single transaction and approved the new buyers all by the end of the year. Everyone of and it was hassle. Las vegas strap. Basically cleaned him about history tells us that anytime you take on the mafia whether you're a politician like lists a law enforcement official or a journalist it comes with risks list. Learned that firsthand. I had a couple of anonymous phone calls or people told me that i should back off and it was not specific as to which property but it essentially we needed to cool heels and back off and let things go and i think i had two successive calls. And so i've etched list says he wore the bulletproof vest more than two dozen times during the ambition campaign against the mob. It was a clear threat. That if i didn't back off i was going to be hurt. The word off and on weren't on. That was in vegas mainly and i remember on several occasions. I flew down here in the state plane when i had to meet with people and with them in the plane out on the ramp rather than even coming through the security gate over to hugh south private terminal but list wasn't deterred he kept pressing ahead even in the face of an undercover sting the targeted list himself. I'm geoff garin in investigative reporter with the las vegas review journal in partnership with the mob. Museum i'm your guide for season two of mobbed up the fight for las vegas a true story about money. Piggyback they have the ability to get loans whoever they wanted to get loans for just hit us like a tidal wave crime moran with them the united states. I don't go up. Go for that kind of action. I emptied that revolver in his ad then he was allowed to control the strip. I was on television accused of fronting the mob. We were very angry and berry upset and we knew we had been double cross only worried about the state of because it was on trial. Also i've covered organized crime from the streets to the boardrooms of the strip for more than forty years in season. Two of taking on a fascinating journey as the fbi and state of nevada take on the mob families federal judges battle prosecutors and two of the biggest names in entertainment fight for the right to replace the mob on the strip just months into office. The fbi handed governor list a pile of reading material. Hundreds of pages of transcripts from secret court approved wiretaps. The agents had been collecting evidence and mafia families in chicago. Kansas city detroit milwaukee cleveland and saint louis and how they were wielding hidden influence on the strip and even downtown among the casinos named where the aladdin stardust tropicana dunes and fremont the details were just shocking to think that these guys were so crass and so blatant in their own way on what they were doing. I don't think too many people that lived in las vegas and we're knowledgeable. The ten already know that these guys were mobbed up. It was common knowledge on a lot of these guys backgrounds and their characteristics were very typical of the old lobster guys but nobody had ever gotten the evidence on it nobody had ever been able to establish it and the skimming was going on until Tapes came until the wiretaps game which is amazing. When you think about it that it hadn't been done years earlier the fbi. Wiretaps also played a significant role in the government's. Crackdown on the mob. In las vegas eventually leading to criminal indictments against the top midwest mob bosses as nevada moved against organized crime other top gaming regulators also received threats one of them was former. Us senator harry reid with a time. Share the nevada gaming commission which had the final word over whether licensees were suitable to operate casinos. Read story was told in season one of my but it's worth a small mentioned again in the context of the epic task that list state regulators faced. Reid wasn't as bad as lieutenant governor. During the first term of governor michael callahan the popular democrat who preceded list o'callaghan a korean war hero and tough old. School politician was a staunch opponent of the mob. Before the fbi stepped up its pressure on the strip and he made sure read a former amateur. Boxer was too when he appointed him to the gaming commission. Geoff schumacher of the mob. Museum says nevada's attitude toward organized. Crime got tougher during callaghan's tenure. Didn't like the idea that somehow the mob was running a shadow government here that it was involved in all these different casinos and see. He started putting people on the control board in the game commission. Who were prepared to more or less. Go to war with bob. And they did harry. Reid can attest to that cared of to put on my car. You know that was a scary time to curate a pistol. I have my garage door. Start the car in the morning right pressing down on that and it would search the car bomb. It didn't blow up and start to car. A bomb was found by his wife. Leandra in nineteen eighty one read says he suspects a man by the name of jack gordon. A shady businessman wants mary tila. Toya jackson was behind it in. Nineteen seventy eight gordon in some associates had offered read a twelve thousand dollar bribe to get new gaming devices approved. Read reported the bribe attempt to the fbi and agents helped him set up a meeting in his law office where the illicit payoff was secretly monitored. So the deal watch that they would come to my lawf- i would say. Is this the money honey. Patch when they would come in and arrest on as the story goes when agents entered. Reid's office regrab gordon around the neck and said quote. You son of a bitch tried to bribe me. What was rates biggest concern. During this turbulent time for gaming jiang ally part of it making sure that i didn't point callahan. who put a lot of faith in what i did have course. I was only worried about the state of nevada because it was on trial. Also longtime las vegas account george schwartz. Who served on the gaming commission with read. Remember jeff gordon very well before he died. In december twenty twenty sports told me that going also allegedly tried to bribe him and about the same time reads wife discovered a bomb under the family car. Schwartz pham one to law enforcement. Wish speculating that. It was either jack gordon or lefty rosenthal. Who knew like me very much either. But i've always thought it was jeff gordon because i figured if it was lefty i'd be dead. The bomb didn't go off the bomb header. Electrical defect lefty was frank. Rosenthal the notorious oddsmaker chicago mob sent to run the stardust and skim profits. Schwartz said. it was mother's day nineteen eighty-one and he had his entire family in the car. I had five kids and my wife and we drove to church and back. And i told my boys quote and check. 'cause it's not hitting on all cylinders. Something's wrong then. They went out to check. They were teenagers. went out to check. And they came back and said dad. There's wire the goals out of the distributor in into the gas tank and it had tried would've incinerated everybody in the car. Safety was also on the mind of longtime attorney. Jeff silver who served on the nevada gaming control board during the o'callaghan administration. I do recall instance. Where a guy came over to provide information about what was going on in the arctic cooperation. And he didn't wanna meet me at the office because he thought he might be followed. So i said well if you wanna come over to my house on a saturday you can as long as you think that. You're you're not going to be traced over there. And so he met me at my house in providing the information about some of the activities. That were going on you know. Use that as the basis of the additional follow investigations about. The fact of the matter is is that this poor guy who came to visit me with this information was never seen again alive. He was alive or for One of the government officials at the time and he had information not on how the audit but his car was founded mccarron report. Couple of weeks later in the parking lot and no one's ever seen him since. So i knew these guys were playing for keeps. Silver also remembers the time he was summoned to the fbi's office. Begging me a transcript to read in their transcript. They had mentioned what they thought it was my name. They call me silverstein her silverman and They said during the course of the transcript. They were going to kill me. I wasn't until the last page of the transcript. I've found out that they had Decided that you know after all they weren't gonna do it because it was great too much heat. Those are the kinds of things that you have to deal with coming up. We'll take a look at leyton attempt by the mom to skirt. the law and one of its financially troubled. Casinos the aladdin afloat. We'll be back after a break. Great news for all fans and followers of mobbed. Up the fight for las vegas podcast. Just for listening you can enter to win one of these mobbed up season two fabulous prizes prize number one two nights. Stay in a fifty dollars. Credit at siegel's nineteen forty one l. Cortez prize number. Two two hundred and fifty dollars gift card to golden stairs steakhouse prize number. Three four passes to the mob museum for more information and to enter goto. Lbj dot com. Backslash mob giveaway. Your time is important to you. So what is important to us too as a business owner. You want to spend your time focused on growing your business not on dealing with red tape. You can safely leave that to us. At pro group management we focus on ensuring that you have the best workers comp plan for your business. Our team of experts keeps up on all the regulatory issues in compliance updates. So you can spend your time growing your business for self insured. Groups program. Management is the leader in providing the as businesses with reliable quality workers comp programs and we have the awards to prove it. Find out how to have pro group management work for you. Visit our website at peachy envy dot com to receive a free cost savings analysis now. That's pg envy dot com or call. Las vegas office at seven. Two seven four zero forty-three eighty pro group management workers. Comp that works for you. Hey you you know the modern history of el cortez in downtown las vegas low some then you are elgort. Dez is where mob legends. Like bugsy siegel lansky most segue got their start in nineteen forty five today l. Cortez is the only hotel casino on the national register of historic places and vintage. Vegas feeling is still alive and well. They got new classically. Modern rooms thirty three percents looseness lights in the strip at great dining and cocktails. Everything vegas was built on so come play with a legends. Play al court papers can't get enough of the intrigue drama and excitement behind the history of las vegas live it dining at the golden stair. Steakhouse the oldest steakhouse in las vegas. In an old haunt of tony's bilaterals the golden stair has been serving up famous and infamous customers since one thousand nine hundred fifty eight from mobsters to the ratpac mohammed ali to holly madison enjoy this classic experience. In person or try their world-famous best steaks on earth in the comfort of your own home by ordering today at golden stair las vegas dot com before the fbi many of the casino allegencies who found themselves behold into the mob behind the scenes at managed to maintain a clean public profile simply blended into las vegas society former nevada governor robert list. Because that very well. I taken contributions from some of these places. I had to give the money back. I knew that i did that right away. And i knew a lot of these guys individually. You know i've met them over the years. Not the state guys but all their front people in nevada take morris shankar who owned the dunes for example. He was a saint louis. Lawyer who represented teamsters union boss jimmy hoffa before his well-publicized disappearance in one thousand nine hundred seventy five. He was all over town. Everybody knew chicago and it was. It was the same way with all these people. They were generous with their contributions. But there was never a moments doubt that this was an opportunity to do what had to be done and nobody else had ever had the evidence before shankar ended up being among those well-known casino figures caught on fbi wiretaps talking to mid west mobsters and associates. Jeff silver new. A little bit about schenker's darker side several recalls. An unusual way in which schenker tried to use dunes casino cash to bail out the aladdin when the detroit and st louis crime families wielded influence. There he walked across street taking money out of his casino cage and went and played blackjack at the aladdin lost a lot of money enough where the aladdin to of made their payroll. That was coming up and when we found out about it on the gaming control board we pass schenker about that shankar. Just said well. I really had a feeling that. I was going to win. And i decided to cross the street to the aladdin and gamble over there and unfortunately i didn't do too well but from what we had seen He loves the money on purpose. In order for those guys to get an un registered loan from him that they wouldn't have to report silver says. The board told shanker he was in the wrong. We admonished him that he couldn't take money out of the cage without verification. I don't know if we filed a complaint against him or not but it became clear that he was helping the collateral. Stay afloat at that point for silver. Who had struck up a good relationship with the fbi taking action against the aladdin and the other mob ridden casinos was a time of reckoning for gaming enforcement in nevada was pretty much of a domino effect that Once one went down the other started falling rather quickly. Because now everybody was sensitized to the idea that maybe we could close down a casino. Got some backbone. It didn't kill the economy entirely to issue the death penalty and revoke. Somebody's licensing closed. So i think a lot of that started happening. All at once and the depth of the problem became more evident with these federal investigations. And the fact that the strike or was there could their wiretap capabilities. Everybody started to take notice realize that something as major problem that had to address but hicks atop deputy attorney general in that era shares. That opinion. well. I think the federal allegations brought heath down not only on the bad guys in the industry but on the state generally and the threat was potentially he on a federal level. It could make gambling commercial gambling illegal. So there was a real legitimate concern by state officials that the feds were right. There were problems and they had to be addressed. The biggest problem was gaining the confidence of the fbi and federal prosecutors. The fed shared some information. But not everything here's former us. Senator richard bryan. Who was attorney. General and then governor. During that critical time the feds by and large or very distrustful with state. I think that was the predicate for all that and they were not necessarily convinced that the state was going to do the right thing. I think it's fair to say. In retrospect the state did do the right thing at least in the seventies and they did move against these hidden. Interest in the skimming former gang. Commissioner george schwartz was also in the trenches issues. I went on the commission in seventy five became acutely aware of the fact that we had a problem with the law with various mob families that were involved in casinos but it was very hard for the gaming authorities to prove it and it was especially difficult because at the time. The fbi had made a decision not to trust nevada authorities so instead of working cooperatively to try to deal with the lob situation the fbi and the feds in general just seem to you know. I can't tell you exactly what they're thinking. They seem to take position that it was nevada's fault and nevada didn't care and that they were not going to work with vada gaming facilities to try to clean it up so it was a very difficult situation and all the time that i was on the commission. We kept dealing with things that the feds had found but not shared with us and our investigators at the gaming control board worked under that handicap during this whole carry the time. Schwartz said it got frustrating because the regulators would hear about the fbi's mob allegations in the media but often couldn't get the evidence they needed to take action against the casinos former federal judge. Philip pro was a top. Deputy attorney general in nevada in those days pro recalls how he and his colleagues were able to bring action against the tropicana hotel without direct. Help from the fbi. After allegations of the mob's plans to skim profits from the casino surface publicly. In one of the fbi's more celebrated muggings agents had secretly recorded a conversation between cow. A squeaky clean gaming executive and kansas city's mob kingpins neck and kyle sevilla who were wielding hidden influence at the tropicana. The conversation occurred in the basement of a friend of the sevilla's in kansas city. In essence thomas went back and in the basement. Almost imagine it from a movie nick. Meaning nick sevilla. You know how. I love you. Every time i come back here at risk losing everything. I have proceeded to explain how he had worked up skimming at the stardust and at some other casinos this of course led to an indictment in kansas city brought by the organized crime strike force there and as the case became public. The indictment was returned against the sabella zone. The wiretap transcripts were filed in court. And i think it may have been an burton filing in the clerk's office but immediately people got copies of those transcripts. I mean they wanted them one of the people who want up with copies. Wasn't ned day. A columnist for the old valley times day later became a columnist for the review journal. In a television news. Anchor was the top local journalists covering the mob. I remember being scooped by him. Many times as i was growing into the beat and i was not alone. Saga of the kansas city. Wiretap transcripts was one of his biggest scoops and he started to print them daily. Almost like a charles. Dickens cereal dickens used to do london under century before he would lay them out in pieces to kind of tell the story the judge in kansas city but he realized what had happened he ordered them sealed again though the wiretap transcripts sealed and ordered everybody that had them to return them. Well that men attorneys had to return them and then governmental entities which. I think all took place. I'm not sure. But dave didn't feel the resenting authority to order a new zealand to do that. Pro and his colleagues were in a quandary. They needed to take administrative against the tropicana. They knew the transcripts were further evidence of the kansas city. Mobs control over the casino. But they couldn't get copies of the transcripts from the court and a federal prosecutors in kansas city and so we thought well hell just attach ned days valley times articles. To our complete that will be our evidentiary base because it was clear what it was and of course that sealed the deal that was successful in providing the basis for the removal of the license with tropicana the museums geoff schumacher says. The media was zeroed in on organized. Crime there's no question that the local media in las vegas played a big role in the alternate demise of the mob in las vegas. The did this in a couple of ways. First of all. They became conduit for state and federal sources. Right who wanted to get messages out into the media so local press revealed the develop sources are telling them what was going on behind the scenes that these casinos so the reporting this to the public so turn puts pressure on regulators to act and investigators to put together cases against the mob guys and it got some point where there were half a dozen different major stories all going on at once in las vegas and so reporters could barely keep up. Schumacher says all that reporting help. Create an environment that encouraged state authorities to keep pushing forward. I think it also attracted federal interest and now you have the federal strike force here. That is trying to do everything from go after the bob to looking at public corruption right so suddenly we've got state senators like floyd land and we have judges like harry clayborn. Who were under scrutiny for taking bribes or collaborating in some way with criminals and these stories all built out of this sort of changing mindset in las vegas that made we can do just fine without the mob anymore. Governor robert list not only led the state's regulatory charge against organized crime but he also pushed the legislature for more resources that included requests for gaming control agents and better training and higher wages for they gave many dozens of agents and huge amount of capacity to do a we had to do. We beefed up came control board substantially when all this came out and we commenced the process and legislature slung in behind us and gave us a lot of capacity to work the case and it was really done very swiftly and very efficiently still ahead in amazing revelation from list. That would catch the governor by surprise during his four year term in office. Mobbed up the fight for las vegas season two continues after a word from our sponsors. Your time is important to you so it is important to us too as a business owner. You ought to spend your time focused on growing your business. Not on dealing with red tape. You can safely leave that to us. At pro group management we focus on ensuring that you have the best workers comp plan for your business. Our team of experts keeps up on all the regulatory issues and compliance updates. So you can spend your time growing your business for self insured. Groups program. Management is the leader in providing fat businesses with reliable quality workers comp programs and we have the awards to prove it find out how have pro group management work for you. Visit our website at p g n n v dot com to receive a free cost savings analysis. Now that's pg m n v dot com or call. Las vegas office at seven. Oh two seven. Four zero forty three eighty pro group management workers comp that works for. You can't get enough of the intrigue drama and excitement behind the history of las vegas. Live it by dining at the golden stairs steakhouse. The oldest steakhouse in las vegas in an old haunt of tony spill address. The golden stair has been serving up famous and infamous customer since one thousand nine hundred fifty eight from mobsters to the rat pack mohammed ali to holly madison enjoy this classic experience. In person or try their world-famous best steaks on earth and the comfort of your own home by ordering today at golden stair. Las vegas dot com. Hey you you know. The modern history of el corte as downtown las vegas. Some venue are elgort. Dads is where mob legends like z. Siegel lansky and most way got their start in one thousand nine hundred eighty five today l. cortez's the only hotel casino on the national register of historic places and at vegas feeling is still alive and well. They got new classically. Modern rooms thirty three percent loosest lights in the strip great dining and cocktails everything. Vegas was built on so come play. With a legends played. At el cortez joseph brodsky took over the fbi office in one thousand nine hundred in the middle of the country's biggest crackdown on organized crime. But the king of sting also shook up. The city's longstanding good old boy network with an undercover political investigation. He named after himself operation. Yobo the fbi was heavy into stinks at the time like abscam which rocked congress. One of the biggest the elected leaders in snared in the las vegas undercover operation was state. Senator floyd lamb the powerful democratic chairman of the senate finance committee and the brother of longtime sheriff. Ralph lamb your blouse gay dispatched in undercover agent. Who portrayed himself. As a shady businessman the agents swept across the state from the legislature and carson city to the clark county commission in las vegas as governor list tells it the agent even approached him in his gaming control board chairman. Richard bunker a soft-spoken close to the vest. Member of the las vegas establishment. Bosquet didn't trust bunker and saw him as an obstacle to the federal government's campaign against the mob relations between the fbi. And the gaming control board slipped to an all-time low. During your time in las. Vegas cashed it everybody. They put the temptation out in front of richard. They tested me list. Says he got a call. One day from floyd lamb. Who wanted to meet someone sean. Lamb are you meeting next week. Somebody i'd like you to me this at the meeting for the next time the governor would be las vegas at the meeting in lands downtown office. The undercover agent told list that he was from the east coast in wanted to build a casino in las vegas. And it's just conversation started off like that and so he wanted to know. How's the process work. Which told me about it a little bit. And i gave him just a two minute overview of the board and the commission and you'll be investigated etc. They said well actually should. Some of us have got some pretty uncomfortable backgrounds and some of us perhaps would not ordinarily withstand a whole lot of inquiry and then very quickly moved on and said. however you're going to be running for reelection we're going to be there for you. You're gonna have all the money you could ever possibly need that cetera. Etcetera and i stop the conversation and told him that they would be held to high standards and no exceptions and if that were the case they're probably wasting their time and i left the meeting. He played the part. I mean i. I really thought i was surprised. Flight would have in there. And i told floyd afterward. And i believe they ran the same gig on richard disa- take care of them. And how did buckle react tolerant. No dice you know. We don't do things that way and get out of my office. Kind of list says he and bunker in learn that the agent was undercover until later but both were shocked that they were approached. Hackles went up. I'm sure for him as aged for me. With a suggestion of payoff. It was really clear at the guy made it very clear that they were dirty. And in retrospect i guess that's the way they have to operate but he made it sound as if it wasn't even marching would not qualify able to buy this property and they didn't even have a specific property that we're talking about it. Was we want to buy a nevada. Las vegas casino list maintains that bunker always conducted himself honorably in his position. As gaming control board chairman bonker died in march. Twenty nineteen super clean. Reputation was well respected in town. Good family and I was very confident. Richard and of course he was tested almost immediately by this by this other matter but the big cleanup and performed extremely well throughout that period of time but a lot of las vegas with clean reputations got dirtied up when the fbi ran its secret wiretaps in those days former longtime us senator howard. Cannon was one of them. Cannon was at the height of his power is chairman of the sentence influential commerce committee when the wiretaps and covered a plot to bribe him in one thousand nine hundred seventy nine a couple of years later international teamsters president roy williams and chicago insurance executive allen. Dorfman were among those charged in the scheme to get ken to block a trucking deregulation. Bill in dorfman at the time ran the teamsters central states pension fund which had loaned millions of dollars to las vegas casinos and helped pave the way for the mob to control a major portion of the strip joseph joey the clown lombardo of reputed ranking chicago. Mafia member also was charged. In the case lombardo oversaw anthony. Spur lladro and his rackets empire in las vegas cannon escape prosecution but the investigation ended his political career. He lost his reelection bid to little known. Las vegas businessman check hecht and there was another famous. Las vegas who got swept up in the anti mom craze mr las vegas himself way newton the midnight i don't outbid johnny carson for the aladdin and that led to bitter feud that lingered for years coming up in season. Two of mobbed. Up the fight for las vegas newton sues. Nbc news for its damning reports making him to organized crime figures any blamed carson the networks beg star and moneymaker for inspiring the report. Newton's lawyer frank farren cough then chairman of the nevada republican party was at a bar at the hyatt regency on capitol hill days before nbc aired in october. Six nine thousand nine hundred eighty story on newton. He was watching john. Chancellor anchor the news. They were just including chancellor came back on in the last two minutes and said he sure to tune in next monday with the story of of wayne newton and the mob words of that nature and i just holy. What the hell is that. All of this has been part. Five season. Two of mobbed up a production for the las vegas review journal in partnership with the mob museum. If you are enjoying it. Please subscribe to the series on apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you are listening right now help us out by telling your friends and by living us a rating and review an apple podcasts. This series is reported by me. Geoff garin field an audio recording. By larry maher and audio engineering by greg conway wiretap audio used in. This episode is courtesy of gary jenkins of wire. Podcast you can find out. More about those infamous wiretaps on gangland wire dot com. We would like to thank our mobbed up season. Two presenting sponsor program management additional sponsorship provided by the golden steer and el cortez. Great news for all fans and followers of mobbed. Up the fight for las vegas podcast. Just for listening you can enter to win one of these mobbed up season two fabulous prizes prize number one two nights. Stay in a fifty dollars. Credit at segel's nine hundred forty one and el cortez prize number two two hundred fifty dollars gift card. To golden stair steakhouse cries number three four passes to the mob museum for more information and to enter goto. Lbj dot com backslash. My giveaway your time is important to you. So it is important to us as a business owner. You want to spend your time focused on growing your business not on dealing with red tape. You can safely leave that to us. At program management we focus on ensuring that you have the best workers comp plan for your business. Our team of experts keeps up on all the regulatory issues and compliance updates. So you can spend your time growing your business for self insured. Groups pro group. Management is the leader in providing vata's businesses with reliable quality workers comp programs and we have the awards to prove it find out how have program management work for you. Visit our website at peaching envy dot com to receive a free cost savings analysis. Now that's pgm. Envy dot com or call a las vegas office at seven. Oh two seven. Four zero forty three eighty pro group management workers. Comp that works for you you. You know the modern history of el cortez in downtown. Las vegas low. Some venue are elgort as where mob legends. Like bugsy siegel maya landscape. Most segue got their start in nineteen five today l. Cortez is the only hotel casino on a national register of historic places and vintage. Vegas feeling is still alive and well. They got new classically. Modern rooms thirty three percent looseness lives in the strip at great dining cocktail. Everything vegas was built on so come play with a legend plate at el corte pace. Can't get enough of the intrigue drama and excitement behind the history of las. Vegas live it by dining at the golden stair. Steakhouse the oldest steakhouse in las vegas in an old haunt of spill laterals. The golden stair has been serving famous and infamous customers since one thousand nine hundred fifty eight from mobsters to the ratpac mohammed ali to holly madison enjoy this classic experience. In person or try their world-famous best aches on earth in the comfort of your own home by ordering today at golden state. Las vegas dot com.

las vegas fbi nevada jack gordon Jeff silver Las vegas Geoff schumacher kansas city Cortez Reid schenker las vegas review journal Geoff garin callaghan hugh south jeff gordon senator harry reid michael callahan mary tila Toya jackson
7/12/21 Boomer & Gio Show Hour 4 (9am-10am)

Boomer & Gio

36:18 min | Last week

7/12/21 Boomer & Gio Show Hour 4 (9am-10am)

"These are the final seconds. Him they hold onto that. You're die time and everything rides on one shot but it is it going to be that this is down to the wire. One shot to take you to the top one win. This is clinched basketball. That's the nba playoffs game for the ones. Who safety isn't a catchphrase. it's a culture and the ones who helped make sure everyone makes it home safe for the safety minded who watch. Everyone's backs grainger offers supplies and solutions for every industry as well as safety assessments and training to keep your facility safe and your people safer call click grainger dot com or just stop by grainger for the ones who get it. Done four g. L. company alive the built ford toughest studio on the fan and cbs sports network. Ever since we brought some home from the hospital. I really hadn't been able to watch anything but sports like the dvr all backed up everything on net flicks. That i haven't gotten to so at some point and things settled down. Be able to watch and stuff. But it's i mean it's tricky. I know new seasonal violence started on. Cbs i gotta get into that huge. I watched the movie last night. Oh did you. I did before actually before the basketball game so the baseball games are over and everything else. I sat down. Turn on my prime and watch. The movie called radioactive. Oh radio ad. Yes madame curie and how she and her husband won the nobel peace prize that say Found out Radio activity and work came from uranium. And how they did all these different tests and everything else and then kind of showed the good parts of it a bad parts of it and everything else. But i like that kind of movie. Now i don't know if you do. There's not many cars in on your. Is your car now this cars in the movie they're actually are ambulances. That are going out during. I believe those world war one where she was out there doing x. Ray they don't hop in like they don't have like an argument someone hops on a horse and then leaves well. Her husband gets run over by a horse or some buggy. Yeah then. I'm out sorry. Meanwhile he was probably dying of Anemia or some sort of leukemia because of Of their radium that they had found through years and years and years of investigating uranium he. I just have a big problem. I can't put myself into that time period. If someone storms off after an argument then hops on a horse and in but i love. I love those types of movies. You know. it's a little bit of history and you know to application of someone's life. Okay so i thought it was good as so it's i i would recommend it just simply because you learn. I knew who she was. But i didn't realize everything. You kinda lose track of all this stuff. I think our tastes and television every day or going in for further and further direction. Think so. I really do believe that if i if i turn on your prime menu and i saw what you are watching would be totally different from the things that i would that would pop up on my prime menu. Basically yes i think algorithms. Yeah i bet on lyrics like we're we're always being an they're always analytics around us being studied. Everybody wants to know our viewing habits without a doubt. But something like this. I wouldn't i wouldn't go for something like this i think you would. I don't think so. I'll tell you where we would meet. I think that even though you're not into the murder stuff. I do think like a true crime thing you would watch. Did you watch Mayor of east all right so that we met in the middle on a little ready in grimy and i kind of like okay very good all right so there was that and then also like a world war two movie. I mean you would share. We would i think a world war one movie a spy thriller. We would like but outside of that. I'm not going to spend that much time on the real housewives of new like the housewives. They do you think your wife to a housewife doing something but yeah. I did what she was doing. She was my wife loves. The housewives was what was the whole act about. It was a life and backstabbing. No no no what it was. It was a burlesque show. It was a cabaret burlesque show and it was With countess llewellyn delicious. And she was at the paramount at huntington. All right. i'm all this stuff. I know it. Because she's into it. But no i don't like the house while she watches a housewives on our own but i like below deck and i like the dating reality shows gunners. Visiting this week pulled out of the drive. What he said. He almost ran a rod over his bike. A really yeah. I don't know rods out here. Yeah supposedly wow. Why don't you get together with him. Yeah maybe we should also blinky killed another rabbit. She killed the rabbit last summer. And kill the co- the rabbit this summer. Wash getting reputation jack russell. That's the miniature jack russell. Yeah she's never grown since we brought her home and then she likes to catch rabbits in the backyard so she liver catch them. Rabbits ordered another rabbit murder. It's amazing how how fast the green fly show up at like a murder site. Oh my god. I murder site. The dog is this little jack. Russell is doing what it normally told. Go after things they usually go down at the foxhole to go get the fox right but She must think that the rabbits are fox. Something that she spent a lotta time. Doing you tell her no. Don't do that or you congratulate her on her killer. I congratulate her. But dorsey was a little over win. Langa whole thing but then again up in new hampshire she runs after chipmunks all day long. Yeah well gives them to get that energy at home. Non stop energy all right so you found you hung out with adam. Schefter exchange numbers once you hang out with iran exchange. The numbers getting done of fewer appearances with iran. Okay why don't you get his number. Get him in here. Hang out with him have fatter to find out what's going on the personal life. I heard he rented that house out east to be next to ben. Affleck jennifer lopez. Why would you do that. Because he's a psycho ex that's why he's the cycle. Apparently okay it's a psycho ex move. Is it not i you know. I'm not into all that taught the house in water. Mill and and benefactor is back together again but happen well. He's not letting it happen so easy so he got the house right right out. There gonna didn't say he was writing shirtless or anything okay. Let's go bike riding the bike. All right very good all right. Let's go to couple santa morning right by the way speaking in studio guests and stuff. We're going to be able to do that again anytime soon. Or what well Yeah i mean we're allowed to do it here okay. it's just a matter of you know people. I think what's happening now though. What i'm noticing is that people are getting lazy and they don't want we'll zoom in will didn't know now now now in studio on wall for game time. We'll do this. Don't forget zoom in for game time but this show. Yeah you gotta you gotta come in you. We don't like to have you know calling guests. Let's of course. It's john flaherty ripping on the eggs. Sure john and wayne. What's up. john. Good morning john gentlemen. Thanks for taking my call. Yes sir. what's up buddy. Listen a couple of things when the kumar's iraq and don't come knocking go very good dandy my a longer all sites that's number one number two. Go for old times sake. He you weren't part of it. Can we get jerry realm long once in awhile. Just the rele drop. Yeah that is. That is eddie's zaree's aries Deparment he keyed the requesting jerry rela drops in the future. Eddie if you wanna work that in for john and wayne there you go. Your request has been submitted. John last one last one pm. Do something boomer gio the wall. Please guys it's disgusting. It's viewers came to look at it anymore. How can you guys do. It's a teacher dish. So you're talking about the wall behind any with the splooge on the wall behind. eddie okay. I didn't realize that little things nasty that wfan we got. We got to handle that john. You're right yeah so anyway. Actually move the other way. I think would be even better. Because i think that's that's the sign of. Its go right there. Yeah yeah that's it right there right in front of the garbage because what people do is that's where the garbage pail is and then they throw drinks and food up against the wall and use it as a backboard and then you get all the garbage juice of against the wall as l. Doing his best impression mottley. Yes yes so. The wall garbage has been something that has been there now for all right eighty central to the right. I don't want to see it anymore. Several bill in long beach was going on bell. Boy how what's happening. I wanted to talk about the game yesterday. I have something good something bad and something. That could have been great. Okay sounds more like moves. The umpire the umpire was probably the best on higher. I'm seen in about ten years reason. Being the is just head behind the plate on every pitch see the outside corner could see the inside corner never made a bad call except for the one way has got the strike on the outside all right very good. What else give bad as the mets manager. He's awful the decisions he makes a terrible could to let the beginning pitch. You go a little longer to save some you trying to make a manning's in a game where he has no pitcher and he takes the guy game too soon and what could have been great was when they were ahead five four. They put grameen in the ninth inning to win the game. You know that did cross my mind but he yeah but he threw a bullpen session. That more yeah. Yeah bill and i i know you threw a bullpen session. That morning and basically told everybody i'm not. I'm not pitching today but that was something prior to that bullpen session. That was something that was talked. Well we we did talk about it last week. We said maybe you save for the final game on sunday thrown inning to instead of a bullpen session but once i found out he did the bullpen session. On sunday morning you knew that he was not going to pitch showers. Yeah keep him out a couple days off and they lost a game that they should've lost the winning game where they shouldn't win game somewhere along the line at the end of the day. Here we are at the all-star break there in first place. You could say. It's because you know louis row house has done a reasonably good job with the team that has been injured. Almost sixty five to seventy percent of the time significant gers batteries and and he has kept them in first place. So i'm not. I'm not buying or manager. Getting manager teams in first place. I wanna see him in the playoffs. And as michael conforto said after yesterday's game we've been a second half team. Hopefully they'll continue to be a second half team and hopefully they'll get some of these guys back that they've been waiting for maybe carrasco. Seems like he's getting close. Yeah now this is also a division. That's helping the mets their fault. I bought it's part of the story. It is part of their story. But that's okay you know. How many times have we been in this division. Where teachers have been so much better than us. We've never had a chance. it's true. You know so a kunia juniors out now all right so he's out with an acl that you know that's a tough break for the atlanta braves. But you know for our team. That's a break that finally breaks our way. You have a significant injury for one of your number one teams that you know you're fighting force. You can't let this year so you've got to win got to win the division. It's all in line for you. And you gotta believe if there is going to be trades that are going to be made at the mets are going to be right at the forefront of that the bolster this bullpen. Bolster the starting rotation or bringing in other situational hitters or defense suppliers that they feel that they need once they get to the play. It's the morning show with boomer esiason and gregg giannotti boomer and geo that guy down in florida. Sammy jerry said that you were spectacular to him down there in florida was you ran into. We called in the cold in. Wow okay great. That's where looting to did. He did he did he. Run the resort. You're staying at Yeah he was part of the lobby. Concierge o- nice must have been a pain in the astros down. There are always asking and everything. Not matter of fact you went back to see him on. Tuesday he was is off day. Yeah he knew about that to someone told them you were looking for. Yes i well i figured i would say hello after because i saw him checking and then go back and say hello. I was gonna take a picture because he's a big fan of owls and then he was off and then the we've rest of the week. We were kind of in cocoa beach. We weren't so. I never got back to see him but could not have been nicer. Oh yes so. He said you pulse for the people over. Evan even likes. Evan being nets fan that he is the sammy but he said you gotta be it very. Nice sammy thank. You couldn't have been nicer so evan. We were trying to figure out a redeeming quality. That evan roberts has as a human being do you have one jeez Wool shore Sounds like you're killing time. No no no no. He drives for the environment. He bikes the does that for the lion does yes he does that. He does to cut down his usage. Yes that's why he bikes the certain places especially with gas prices. Going through the roof. Now that's true too. He really thought he just did it because he enjoyed it and it was easy for him. Because we i'm looking for something here. He's a good dad. But that's a that's a layup. Probably get credit for things you supposed to do. Right chris. rock would say after being on vacation last week. I'm not so sure that there are a lot of good ones out. There really is what you say you just see you know a lot of scum. No no. i'm not. We always say people are garbage so six garbage people are rude. People are yes pge people. What did you say you see a lot of people that don't exactly pay attention to their children okay. Their kids are not very well behaved. he's look the other way. It's just that good so like to eat or something. The kids are running amok. They're throwing a bread rolls around or something like that. It's not to that extreme. But yeah i mean yellen back and forth pulling hair it's like and then all you don't do that stop go. How about you what we did you liked him to hit their children out and give them a good strategy. What i said but you can't just let them do whatever the hell they want either. Fine line it's a very fine line now. If you got involved that other family new said look. Can you control your kids. What do you think would happen. Why didn't get involved because my problem wallet is your problem if we're talking about it. No i'm not complaining about it. You ask me what i saw. I will tell you on the plane coming back okay. There was an issue. And all i actually wrote to my wife on the phone because i didn't want to say it and yeah i just wrote be grateful. You don't have to go home with these kids. How old are the kids. Four eight and just kicking seats and stream hill and each other. Wow just absolutely killing each on the parents or like nothing boys girls. The woman goes. I can't do this anymore. Well maybe you should have thought of that. Eight years ago and nine come on. Did they boys girls coming. Growing boy am whooping on each end. The father just sitting there watching. Wow like what like what is wrong with you. Yeah i always get freaked out by that. Always think everybody the few times we've flown with sabrina. I'm like oh god everybody's looking at me. She cries but she does. Is we try and do some of course without a doubt. Keep her busy. That's the whole thing and you want to look at this. You want to draw this. The crayons out. Let's do something that's doing what you're supposed to be running of course but then when they don't wanna do that and they start the tantrums and that's a problem then. I don't know what you do. Well then you throw a tantrum right order a drink. Am i going to do a tantrum and scare the hell out of very good. Okay jerry. What are you got We've got to think about the second. I should say three is like having a meltdown and table and your at the portly villager and then all of a sudden you get up and then you start having like crazy and start running around the she stop and go. What the hell's wrong with my dad. It's an interesting take. Maybe i will do if the shot just to see if that works. I ever do that with your kids. Well listen yes you have. Oh yeah back in a day. You threw a tantrum to match the well you know. Sydney was a tantrum. Thrower was not like the perfect kid. Sydney was the you know the one that always wanted to get out of her seat. You know when you're getting ready to the plane's landing they tell you to buckle your seatbelts. She'd had the seat belt. Buckle down the the the hell's kid is this right you know and Then finally i just said enough is enough. I threw a tantrum back and did made her stop burton For the most part. Yeah wow. i'm going to try that now. I'm telling you. I'm try it at home. I the see of a work. Because i don't want to do that in public so if she starts losing at the dinner table. Yeah start running around the house yelling. This is traumatic for them though seeing whatever on their meltdown god is not acting like and then she'll realize what you know. What a painting. We're she'll jump out and start doing with them. A grandma knives and stuff running god. This is not good. This is the counter affect answer your question if parenting is not a good answer for evan. You don't like the likes his sports. I'm not sure. Yeah this other trying. No no there's not that there's nothing he's very. He does run the twitter baseball league still still. Yes absolutely i agree. I did see our friends. Steve in atlanta. Yeah you know tattletale on me. On social media about basically saying they. Evan had not a redeeming quality to really even come senate. Yeah i know that. But steve felt like he had to tell evan via. Did you hear what boomer said that kind of thing. You know what. I'm saying like off putting that as very off put. Yeah very context. Yes total. he's very charitable. In what way way is he charitable. I haven't heard anything a navigable from him up in her hotel room. Got you a sweet one night. I bullied him in today. S and that was a long time ago. That was like thousand and eight run. I said you make like four times. The money i make your buying his hotel room and he put us up and he goes okay. Great yeah i know it's really hard. I mean everything. I'm giving you your your charitable stuff. That's not like above and beyond pulse of the people like saving co workers life especially when that co worker has a pregnant woman. I belong wife at home. If i heard properly before i came in here. I believe tom's wife gave birth. Yeah and i believe the baby's doing well. I think. I hope. John thomas you need to go home and help them out in any way or was this you already. Jerry delivered the baby with them. It's not get silly. I am responsible for him. Being there. it is true. You're yeah if you did not save his life. That child will be fatherless. We would just looking for some redeeming quality that we could throw out there in support of evan in there hasn't been one now. Gio is is basically sat here all morning today m last week realizing one of the great things that he has done in his wondering. Why evidence still there on the list and gio got knocked off. And i already said jerry if i would have lost to. You would have been fine because you saved a man's life. And i can't argue with that but evans should not be a finalist. He shouldn't be i. Don't either you gotta put into the committee. I don't know maybe because he's a redhead and they're going to soon be extinct. What were redheads are going to be extinct. Yes why is that. How come i don't know the exact science some about the recessive gene. Then people not procreating with them. They don't want other redheads. That's what it is right into a tough time redhead guys. Yeah really getting finding mates yup cuddling with redhead. You're forcing yourself on me. I want you to okay do so you tell me. It's a sympathetic play. Because he's redhead and they may be extinct correct. Okay all right. I don't know. I can't think of another reason why it would be a finalist. Outside of the fact that the committees Get a little bit of a bias. Thing i can think of. We find out this week. I believe all right very good all right jerry. What's happening We've reached the all star break. Here's what we've got. We've got the yankees at forty six and forty. Three eight games behind first-place boston we've at the medicine. Forty seven forty. They have a three and a half game lead on philadelphia. Both teams lost bad bad games. I would say on sunday because they both had five run leads. Mckay's the mets they five. Nothing lead in the first inning and wound up losing late to the worst. I mean just a terrible team. In the pirates the pitch swing and a grounder wider third base head past the diving in your may the pirates. Take the lead. The goski stores from third seattle stops at second and on it first with an rbi single his third head of the game as wilner defoe and the pirates taken. A six to five lead here. In the nine hundred it was right after nagorski tied the game with the Single up the middle then lashed down the left field line and yes six five from five nothing down to a six five win at city field for pittsburgh now these two teams will face each other again. This weekend they play in. Pnc park after the break here was edwin d as he blew the good eighth inning. He got out of a bases loaded. One out jam ninth inning. Not so much. So he advances and moves on flush away. I've watched the game is over. So i flash. I'll be ready on friday when they give me the ball to say they have we. Are we ready. I for well. We'll see okay. Here's michael conforto. He had one of those early home. Runs hr okay. There's no no heads hanging in there But obviously we would have liked to to get that win. Yeah but they didn't so forty seven and forty s where they are at Again three and a half game live in philly who wound up beating boston on sunday. As for the yankee loss right around wasn't exactly the same time but pretty close to the same time. The yankees were in the midst of blowing a seven to ninth inning lead. Now greens bitch is swung on and a high fly to love field at. It is for a game winning three run home run on believable up john sterling the column. Jose altuve yankees just record one out in the ninth inning now. Two to three run homer on. I mean it was off his shoe. Tops that pitch and he wins at eight seven the final score toro and mccormack with run-scoring doubles in that ninth inning. To mingo armand started the ninth gave up a couple of basic chad. Green came in and really struggled. He wound up Suffering the loss in this game here was chad green. He says he went after altuve eight but he got beat by. Altuve is always gonna try to be aggressive. So it's to my sandwich or less. Altuve shirt ripped off as he came around the bases around the crossed home plate. I should say but the biggest shake same thing. I expected less from a shirtless out. Quite frankly who was it al that you were very unimpressed. By was alonso lonzo wattle. The mets are not michael. Conforto might want to order was shirtless not muscular. But i'll to muscular get nine hundred calls about iron suny to to why there's a tattoo on by the By the shoulder. What do you call this rumor. The collarbone collarbone supplies collarbone. Yeah up in here. I see something you know the calling me now i see it. It's up there. It's like Writing yeah right okay. Looking for a best the other thing these tattoos how the body art is unbelievable on some people. We've got a program director. Now's got full sleeves doesn't he. Yeah very cool. Full-sleeve passer pretty impressive. I've got one tattoo covered. You still have it nice. Have the vikings tattoo writer. Oh you got that covered. Look at look at the difference on. Cbs sports that were by former. Stand here today man. I'm aware pretty bad. It's what it is anyway. So yankees will begin with the red sox the unofficial second part of the season but they start on thursday bologne loan game on thursday. Evening as tonight. You've got the home run. Derby pete alonso now is in it for the mets shohei. Ohtani isn't it as well. He's got thirty three home. Runs the all star game is tomorrow night at coors field. First round of the major league. Baseball i guess this surprise the pirates took this catcher. Henry davis from louisville. There wasn't like a clear cut guy. And the patrick don't lighter was yeah i don't know but you got to remember the slotting in the money and whole thing in the pirates are cheap organization so all right then later go second of the rangers. The mets scott lighters teammate. Kumar rocker at ten and the yankees took a shortstop from eastern illinois trae sweeney nba finals. It was the bucks over the sons one. Twenty one hundred forty one for janas drew holiday had twenty one points Here was devon booker. Not a great night for us but we're okay still up two games to one. We're gonna get back right and film and be ready to in game four wednesday night again in milwaukee as the bucks look to even things up also thought this was interesting. Maybe mentioned it or not. Pierre mcguire is leaving the the booth. He is going to be the new vice president senior vice president of player development with the ottawa senators. Yeah congratulations them. I know that You know the tv thing. He enjoyed it. He loved it but you know in his blood. It's hockey all about hockey. And so good for him. He got a good job and so good for him as right so he is leaving the booth all right time now for what they call moment of the day brought to you. By casa migos tequila customer goes to kill a brought to you by those who drink. The guys were discussing jewish trip to the emergency room years back when he took sexual supplements for a special night. That went awry and the doctor made it very clear that the supplements were indeed the problem. He came in to see me. He had him in his hand and his exact words. No exaggeration he takes me to your bony. No you didn't say that. He had the pills in his hand. He goes. This is thin stupid and garbage. All right doc. Thank you and i go home now old. Yeah is trying to crush gino. That's was yeah. It was a long time. We were young. Who's our first trip to new york together. And i'm just wondering why you would need the pills i can. I told you at the time was when you're a new couple. You have a lot of relations. And i wanted to make sure that i could keep up. That's what it was. So i i was one of those and now we don't even touch one another time. Are you go moment of the day brought to you by casa migos to thank you jerry boomer and geo coming to you live for the built ford tough studio. Hey once again time. For the yankee timely timely is right it's the morning show with boomer esiason and gregg giannotti boomer and geo party boomer and geo on fanning. Cbs cbs sports. Now we're getting into that. Euro final yesterday turned that game on real quickly. And right as i wanted to. I was trying to get into it. I was trying to get into it and then it just like it was just like so boring and i know people love soccer and love that particular deal between on the fact that it's england they haven't won and fifty five years and all that other stuff i was just like man. Come on can somebody do something here. Yeah and they have the championship decided on penalty. Kicks i think is a little bit for gays. But it's been known as the years. Yeah this is rules now. There's a lot of people with the talian heritage that were texting me. About this and senator howard. I know i am happy about. But that's the thing they were texting me with like the italian flags and say that you know we did it and all this stuff i can only get into the soccer when the us is playing like when they end now unfortunately missed the last world cup which was a complete joke but the previous time prior to that were they. I believe they had beaten ghana to move on and ended up losing germany. Like i was totally into that. I was into that because it was a us. I just. I don't. I don't know i don't i know i've got a talion heritage and good for them and i guess i'd rather have them then england but like i wasn't going to go out and celebrate streets streets and like go for side talia. Call today. I mean i don't know eddie. Did you feel that. You've got the italian last name as well. No actually written for england. Why because it's been a long time for them. That's like fifty five years for them. Okay yeah they never won anything you know. And then they're fans go tab crazy and they just go nuts well. Soccer fans are just like look. It's not you know they're. They're the worst though glasshouse here like of our fans in his country. Act like idiots but aren't soccer fans soccer hooligan fan. Isn't that like the worst fan. I guess so but who knows. I did hear francisco endure complaining about being booed last week. I did hear that. And i was like well. You know this these feelings that these players have these days in and how they get hurt when they get booed. Hey i mean it's amazing. It's a real thing man you know. I've been in those shoes. I know exactly what it is. But i will say this. The francisco endured. I would say this the anybody. And i think a rod would be the prime example of it when you go and win an mvp and your team wins. The world series urine. You're moral you're on top of the world and you can do no wrong and that's basically what playing here is all about if you get the ticker tape parade here. If you're lucky enough to do that ask you lie. Manning ashville since you never have to buy another drink in town borough ever because of the performance that you put forth for your respective franchises but you know if things aren't going well for you you're gonna get boot that's all there is to it. Everybody's gonna get but it's not just you is going to be edwin diaz two years ago it's good at least when diaz has shown the propensity the able to come back from that. Yeah it's going to be michael conforto. It's got to be jeff mcneil. Who rolls over into another double. It's pretty easy to figure out what would have happened to everybody. But you can't openly at hurts my feelings and i'm being booting nine hundred and fifty million dollars. I don't feel sorry. Nobody does not a single person. James is out in locust valley. Hey james what are your property taxes. How are you guys property taxes. Go up every year and it's awful. Yeah you in like the sixty seventy thousand dollar range now. Now now outta i'd be. I'd be in north carolina if that was the point. I i here like locust valley very beautiful neighborhood right out with after the kids got great schools and Thank god we were open all year. Covid and The teachers and everyone did a great job. And the kids loved being in school and We were lucky we were lucky. All right that was one thing that was pretty cool yesterday. The italy win We are telling areas like geo and it was pretty cool because then we did get slammed. I with the whole kobe thing. If you guys remember of course yeah. Yeah yeah i mean. That's how i started with fashion week. Yeah so it was kind of nice to see them win and celebrate which was nice I wanted to tell you guys. We love you Boomer you're the best and the kids have a message for you. We're on the rfk bridge heading into the city and the kids wanted to give you a message ready. I'm ready for bed. Deals and what out baller. Pete is gonna smashing tonight excited for the home run derby tonight. That's great where where palm all right there you go. Thanks guys appreciate it. Very nice driving into the city sending you a mess. i like. yeah that's right. Well the the all star game in home run. Derby is for children As you get to be an adult. That's not so interesting anymore. So i'm not surprised that the kids are fired up to see their guy compete in home. Run derby but one for me. I'm going to Find out about what happens tomorrow when i get to work. let's go to Donna down in florida. What's going on. Donna hey good morning guys. How what's happening in a long time since i spoke to you guys last time i spoke to you bouma. Your daughter was getting married. Yeah yeah every time. I try to get through to you guys. You're i just can't. I can't but i did today. And i i wanted to call to support jerry in this post of the people think Think jerry is awesome. He's a real family man. He's involved in his community and most of jerry out of the people think and are too afraid to say you have my vote and like it even now. The people are voting for jerry right data. Data's rats thank. Thank you donna. That's awesome yeah and in the true sense of the pulse of the people you know. Jerry says people are garbage. This and that is a lot of people that do believe that that do get turned off by the negative parts of society and jerry. Is that voice for those people. So i think that really is resonating with the voters for the postal pulse of the people in the listeners and the viewers of the show. Yeah and it's just another support person. That just happens to be part of the listening audience does get all these calls in the afternoon about. People support him no way. I don't think so. What i hear having gets a lot on saturdays men. I hate you on in the afternoons. Now what. I hear a lot of that. I don't know why they're very entertaining. But there's a lot of people that call in and say boy you've changed one of those things. Yeah like you would with joe. Use the bore me to sleep. Yes shows got some standard lease. at least. There's there's a live person there. Yeah not just somebody. That's like a ticker tape tickertape spitting out all the stats and info. You're of course it. Oh and rotational. Yeah logging logging and set ups and scoring games and who's got the whip in the war all that of course we understand there you go. I'd rather worry about breathing through my nose. You sound like you need to work on it with a lot snort.

mets michael conforto Cbs madame curie jack russell jerry evan llewellyn delicious gregg giannotti Affleck jennifer lopez john john flaherty john gentlemen jerry rela eddie okay mottley Evan louis row house basketball
Pardoned: Richard Nixon Pt. 2

Not Guilty

49:11 min | 1 year ago

Pardoned: Richard Nixon Pt. 2

"On May Seventeenth Nineteen seventy three the Senate caucus room was filled to capacity for the first public public hearing of the Senate Select Committee on presidential campaigns Senate. Staffers journalists and photographers filled the three hundred seat seat room. The Committee of Seven Senators and seven lawyers were charged with the formidable task of investigating the nineteen seventy two presidential presidential election for signs of wrongdoing. This included the break in the Democratic National Headquarters in the Watergate office complex a scandal so notorious that it had simply become known as Watergate households across America tuned in to watch the testimony live. You've aired start to finish by the public broadcasting service at the beginning of the Senate committee hearings nineteen percent of Americans thought Richard Nixon accent should be removed from office by the end. The number would increase to fifty seven percent. seventy-seven-year-old roll democratic. Senator Sam Ervin put on his reading glasses and opened the proceedings with a statement in an even tone. He told the packed. Act Room that the hearings were beginning in an atmosphere of the utmost gravity and that weight was felt by the many onlookers. The Large Hall was nearly silent as the first witness took his seat. The Senate Caucus Room had hosted other historical investigations like like the Teapot Dome Scandal. And the attack on Pearl Harbor it was a fitting backdrop for a hearing that would help end a presidency. How should we determine a person's guilt do we? Defer the evidence discovered by police or the verdict reached by jury. And what happens when the evidence and the verdict. Don't line up. Hi I'm Vanessa. Richardson and this is not guilty. Apar- cast original each week. We look at complicated criminal cases that test the limits of innocent and until proven guilty you can find episodes of not guilty and all other park has two originals for free on spotify. Or wherever. You listen to podcasts to stream not guilty for free on spotify just open the APP and type not guilty in the search bar at podcast. We're grateful for you our listeners. They will allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening? It really does help last week. We examined the investigation investigation of the nineteen seventy-two Watergate break in and the subsequent trial of the men caught in the act however the case wasn't closed after those proceedings defendant James mccord revealed that there were more people involved in the break in than those put on trial this week will explore floor the subsequent investigation which tried to answer the famous question. What did the president know? And when did he know it and finally finally. We'll look at the outcome that sealed. Richard Nixon's legacy as possibly the most complicated. US President in American history. Senator Sam Ervin a seventy seven year. Old Democrat was known for his North Carolina drawl and his country lawyer manners but he was also a Harvard law school graduate who could easily quote Shakespeare. He was known as the only man in the Senate who who had the respect of everyone. On both sides of the Aisle Irvine Open the public hearings on May Seventeenth Nineteen seventy-three by I telling the crowded room and the television cameras that the men who broke into Watergate hadn't just stolen from the Democratic National Committee they had stolen from every American. They had robbed them of their right to vote in a free election. Irvine stated that the role of the select committee. He was not to entertain unfounded rumors but to remove a black cloud of distrust that had fallen on society. They would look at the issues at hand and determine if policy changes were needed to ensure that nothing like this ever happened again. Irvine then reminded the room that the nation an and history were watching. They could not fail in their mission. Among the first witnesses of the hearing was forty nine year old James W mccord. Junior one of the five men caught burglarizing. The Watergate building mccord's testimony was one of the most anticipated of the Watergate proceedings. Though what he had to say was far from a surprise the Senate had met with almost all of the witnesses Mrs before the public hearings and portions of mcchord statement had already been leaked to the media mccord testified that after he and the other robbers burs were arrested he started receiving money the funds came to him through an intermediary who told him it was from the committee to re elect the President President also known as CRP though mcchord didn't explicitly know the purpose of the cash. It didn't take much to guess it. It was hush money forty eight year. Old Samuel Dash chief counsel for the Senate Select Committee asked him to clarify had anyone. Anyone pressured him to plead guilty at his original trial in exchange for bribes or anything else mccord said yes one of the men who organized the break in Howard Hunt contacted him in October of Nineteen seventy-two hunt. Promise that all of the arrested robbers would be given even presidential clemency. If they pleaded guilty they would have to serve time in prison but Nixon would ultimately commute. Their sentences hunt also assured mcchord that their families would be supported while they were locked up and they would be given jobs after they were released but mcchord turned the offer down then as the January trial neared mcchord was approached reached by the assistant director of criminal enforcement at the ATF. Jack Caulfield caulfield repeated the offer of clemency and insisted did everyone else was going to cooperate. mcchord was the lone holdout all he needed to do was plead guilty. Stay quiet and he'd be back to his family within a year. When mcchord turned down the offer again coalfield turned the screw? He threatened threaten that the administration would have to take steps to defend itself but nevertheless mcchord refused to bend. He would not plead it guilty. This was because he'd seen a certain name on the prosecution's witness list for the impending trial. Jeb mcgruder as the deputy director director for Nixon's campaign mcchord was certain that mcgruder was going to lie on the stand. He would testify that the campaign knew nothing about the break break in and it seemed to mcchord that he and the others were being asked to take the fall while the other higher powers got away. scot-free mccord's next line of questions came from Fred Thompson Minority Council for the Select Committee. He turned the topic toward the masterminds of the Watergate Gate. BREAK-IN G Gordon. Liddy and Howard Hunt Thompson asked if mcchord knew about any meetings between these men and aides to the president accident mcchord replied that hunt mentioned meetings with Attorney General John Mitchell White House counsel John Dean and Deputy Director Jeb. Jeb Magruder Thomson then asked if hunt or liddy ever told him that they specifically discussed the Watergate break-in at these meetings mcchord answered. Oh yes very definitely on Tuesday may twenty second nineteen seventy-three mcchord. The court concluded his testimony. Senate Democrats were pleased. He'd linked Watergate back to the White House but the Republicans remained skeptical they. He considered his testimony hearsay at best and they needed direct testimony to justify indictments. That's exactly what they got with their next next witness. Jack Caulfield Caulfield was the man who mccord had just accused of offering him hush money clutching his prepared. Statement statement tightly caulfield confirmed almost everything that mccord had stated. He admitted that on the orders of White House. Counsel John Dean Caulfield told mccord to plead guilty in exchange for clemency. Caulfield claimed he didn't know what the president knew about the offer but dean gene told him that the order came from the top as the committee proceedings continued. US Attorney General. Elliot Lee Richardson. Hertzen was tasked with appointing a special prosecutor to head. The Department of Justice's own Watergate investigation after compiling a list of candidates. Richardson started making calls. But every person he reached out to have the same answer no some cited that it was because they didn't WanNa to leave their current position but others had concerns about White House interference in the investigation. No matter how many promises Richardson made to the the contrary the situation was fraught eventually Richardson called on sixty one year. Old Harvard Law Professor Archibald Cox Works unlike the other candidates Cox had no qualms involving himself in an administrative scandal. He told the media that Richardson assured him that the White House would not interfere with his investigation. He then stated whatever else I shall be I shall be independent and and Cox made good on his promise soon. He hired a group of young eager and independent lawyers to help him investigate and as Cox built his his team the Senate Select Committee continued their own proceedings on June sixth nineteen seventy-three Hugh W Sloan junior the former treasurer of the committee to re elect the president testified before the Senate Select Committee Majority Council Samuel Dash Cash asked him what had happened in the early morning hours. After the Watergate break in the previous Summer Sloan was in his office at the White House around nine. Thirty A. M. When g Gordon Liddy rushed down the hall Frantic Liddy told him that his boys got caught last night and he was afraid he was going to lose his job. Sloan claimed the statement made no sense to him but he was used to people at the campaign fretting about being fired so so he just brushed it off but then a month later Sloan met with Nixon's deputy campaign director Jeb. Magruder for a drink mcgruder pressured. Sloan to go to the US Attorney's office and downplay the amount of money the CRP had paid. G Gordon Liddy He. He asked Sloan to voluntarily report to the. US Attorney that the CRP had paid liddy only forty or forty five thousand dollars less than a quarter order of the two hundred thousand dollars. They had actually given him mcgruder. hoped that doing this would give the appearance that the campaign was cooperating with the investigation nation. Sloan was shocked. He was being asked to lie to federal investigators. But he told mcgruder he would sleep on it and give him an answer in the morning the next day. Sloan told mcgruder he would go to the prosecutor's office and answer. Yes if asked directly if he paid Blidi forty five thousand dollars but if he was asked if Liddy received more. Sloan told mcgruder that he would tell the investigators the truth breath realizing Sloan wasn't going to play ball. mcgruder dropped the suggestion entirely but a few weeks later Sloan realize allies that the CRP was completely committed to the cover up even if it meant perjuring themselves in court and he knew that if he stayed with the committee he would eventually be faced with that. Same ultimatum it. Went Against Sloan's deep rooted integrity. He quit his job and offered offered to cooperate with the prosecution. Senator Sam Ervin looked down from the Senate Dallas and drawled your testimony. He has renewed my faith in the old expression and honest man is the noblest work of God. The witnesses before the committee painted a picture of a bungled burglary and a sloppy coverup but so far no one had provided firsthand knowledge. The conspiracy went past the committee to re elect the president all they had was hearsay. Not One of them. Had successfully linked the Watergate break-in skin to the Oval Office and that was by design the Senate Select Committee had done a large scale investigation prior to the public public hearings and carefully stacked their testimonies to lead them closer and closer to the White House their next witness was the first I lincoln that chain after months of subterfuge deputy campaign director Jeb. Magruder was ready to tell all he. We knew all eyes were on the boyish mcgruder on June fourteenth nineteen seventy-three as he was sworn in he promised before the US Senate America and God to tell nothing but the truth chief majority council. Samuel Dash asked asked mcgruder to describe a series of meetings. He had with G Gordon Liddy in the weeks leading up to the break in mcgruder replied carefully carefully deliberately. He told the committee that on January twenty seventh nineteen seventy-two he met with Liddy White House counsel old John Dean and Attorney General John Mitchell their liddy presented a plan he dubbed Operation Gemstone using color coded Charts Liddy laid out a strategy to destabilize the Democratic candidates while protecting Republicans from security threats and and bad press among these projects was a plan to kidnap leaders of radical leftist groups expected to protest the Republican National Convention Liddy Plan to sequester them in Mexico during the event allowing them to return home after laughter from onlookers cut through the silence and so the Senate Caucus Room. Liz Plan sounded even more ridiculous when spelled out in such formal proceedings. Even the nervous mcgruder cracked practice smile. Though some found liberties scheme laughable mcgruder said he Mitchell and dean were stunned at the scale of the illegal activities. He was proposing. They told Liddy they refused to go through with his absurd plan. So Liddy was forced back to the drawing board after a series of meetings attorney. General Mitchell eventually approved a surveillance plan including bugging the DNC headquarters mcgruder admission about these meetings linked one of Nixon's closest advisers White House Attorney John Dean to Watergate eight and now John Dean was ready to take the committee another step closer to the Oval Office. He was going to connect the conspiracy spiracy to the president himself. Coming up. Dean walks the committee through the Watergate. Cover up hi Vanessa. And I'm excited to tell you about an incredible show from podcast that you don't WanNa miss their four-legged legged full of love and oftentimes more like family than their nickname suggests dog tales tells the true stories of Heroic Canines who've gone on above and beyond their best friend duties. Every Monday dogs tails embarks on a new journey of courage service and unwavering sacrifice vice by our most loyal companions. You'll hear tales of inspiration from all breeds of life like buddy German shepherd. The world's first seeing seeing I guide dog or Huskies Balto and Togo the sled dogs who made a lifesaving medical delivery from anchorage to nome each each episode of Dog Tales is as unique as the pups themselves. And sure to bring you closer to the furry friend in your life so get ready to sit. Stay and roll roll over with excitement for PODCASTS endearing series dog tales listened to dog tales. Free on spotify or wherever. You get your podcasts now. Back to the story the Senate Select Committee investigating the Watergate scandal. Oh was determined to uncover how high up the chain. The cover up went did heard several testimonies that inch closer and closer to the truth but the next witness former White House counsel John Dean would lead them straight to the Oval Office on Monday. June twenty-fifth Nineteen seventy-three dean sat down at the table facing the committee alone. This was a market change from the previous witnesses. Who had their attorneys next to them? Dean was sending a message. He was going to tell the whole truth regardless of the consequences. Dances Dean told the committee that he didn't believe Nixon fully understood Watergate or the cover up before he went any further. He wanted on the record that he believed. Nixon should be forgiven for whatever role. He may have played but rather than taking questions from Senators Dean announced that he was going to read a two hundred forty five page prepared statement outlining the Watergate break in the documents started with those early meetings with g Gordon Liddy and continued to the day that Dean was forced to resign as White House counsel in Dean Statement which took an entire day to read. He admitted he was present for the initial meetings. Jeb Magruder described but at the time Dean told Liddy he wanted nothing nothing to do with his outlandish gemstones scheme and if the campaign went through with it he didn't want to know so when the plan to break into the Watergate or gate building was discussed deem simply wasn't there. He heard nothing about the matter until the break in actually happened. Dean testified that immediately after the burglars were arrested he began his own investigation asking members of the CRP what they knew he. He wanted a full picture of what happened so he could. Best advise the president as his legal counsel but when he realized some of the people involved linked back to the president's campaign and former Attorney General John Mitchell Dean tried to stall the investigation. He needed to stop up before it went any higher than Gordon Liddy and he succeeded in fact Dean was so successful at stymying the investigation that Nixon congratulated him on his efforts. Dean then testified that in late February of Nineteen seventy-three Nixon told him to report court directly to him on everything. Related to Watergate throughout March Dean had nearly daily contact with the president however however dean grew concerned. The president was too close to the cover up. Dean didn't think Nixon fully understood Watergate or the ramifications vacations of his involvement on March twenty first nineteen seventy-three. He sat down with Nixon and told him the cover up was a cancer growing on his presidency. If that cancer were not removed it would be fatal. Dean suggested that instead of doubling down on the cover up those involved should take responsibility including himself doing so would allow Nixon plausible deniability but Nixon didn't seem concerned. Dean wondered if the President still didn't understand the scope of the scandal he appealed to Nixon's closest. Oh sister advisers Bob. Haldeman and John Ehrlichman but they like the president insisted that everyone stay the course in that moment dean realized that he was the only one who thought they should come clean in order to protect Nixon. And if he were the only one to do so those close to the president particularly Haldeman and Ehrlichman would benefit then it dawned on him they were setting him up up to be the scapegoat. Panicked at the thought of legal charges. Dean began cooperating with federal prosecutors. But he didn't do this behind ended Nixon's back on April Fifteenth Nineteen seventy-three Dean told Nixon that he was going to take full responsibility for his involvement government. Dean testified that Nixon then began asking him very specific leading questions which were unlike his usual relaxed. I way of speaking. It then occurred to him that Nixon was recording the meeting. Possibly setting up a record to protect himself then right as they were wrapping up the conversation Nixon stood up from his chair and walked to the far corner of his office. They're very quietly. He he told Dean that he should never have discussed. Giving Howard Hunt Clemency it was the only incriminating thing the president said in the meeting eating Dean felt it was no accident that Nixon made sure he was far from his desk when he said it but dean had no proof to offer the select select committee of these meetings with the president other than his notes and over a month later on July tenth. Nineteen seventy-three when John Mitchell appeared before the committee Dean's initial testimony was further undermined campaign director. Mitchell testified that the president did not know oh his aides were involved in a cover up until March of nineteen seventy-three now it was simply deans word against Mitchell's but dean suspicion that the president recorded one of their meetings was not missed by committee members they needed to know if Nixon routinely keenly recorded White House meetings. If they could get their hands on the tapes they could corroborate Dean's accusations that the president knew about and more importantly a condoned the cover-up Senate investigators interviewed dozens of White House. Staffers asking if they had heard or seen anything about recording devices planted within the Oval Office but no one knew a thing then on Friday July thirteenth they they called in Alexander. Butterfield Nixon's deputy chief of staff a loyal Republican. He decided he would not volunteer any the information but he would not lie if asked about the taping system after over four hours of questions. Suddenly the tapings things came up. Butterfield was asked directly if he knew of any recording devices in the White House. Butterfield hesitated before saying being. I was hoping you fellas wouldn't ask me that. He told them that. In the summer of Nineteen Seventy Nixon had a voice activated aided recording system installed in the Oval Office outside of the Secret Service agents who installed the system very few people knew about it though. Witnesses continued to testify before the Select Committee from that point forward. The focus of the investigation shifted the committee's cities new priority was to find out what was on those tapes on July twenty third nineteen seventy-three both both the Senate committee and Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox demanded that Nixon handover any tapes recorded at the White House two two days later. He responded with a letter. Nixon claimed that he would not be turning over any documents or recordings because they you fell under executive privilege a right held by the president to keep confidential communications. Private Nixon pointed out in his letter all the ways he had aided the investigation he told all of his staff to testify honestly and he even waived attorney client privilege so that counsel sold John Dean could speak openly to the committee but he would not make private presidential communications public however in his unwillingness to cooperate made the public wonder. What did president? Nixon have to hide on August August. Fifteenth Nineteen seventy-three. This public scrutiny led Nixon to give his second televised address on the Watergate affair in in spite of deans testimony. Claiming Nixon was aware of the cover up in September of Nineteen seventy-two Nixon reiterated that he knew nothing about the break in until March twenty first nineteen seventy-three on the topic of the tapes. Nixon stated it was essential to maintain confidentiality and she -ality between the president and his advisors. If the recordings were released the world would never trust the discussions with the president would remain in private. Nixon assured the American people that he was not hiding anything about Watergate he was simply protecting the function of his office. Pests but the Senate Watergate Committee wouldn't be brushed off so easily. They responded to Nixon's refusal by issuing a formal subpoena enough for the tapes and when Nixon ignored the order day pursued legal action the executive and legislative branches were now how in battle and they were asking the judicial branch to step in to mediate. Senator Howard Baker. A Republican from Tennessee called it a historic story conflict judge John Erica. Who oversaw the Watergate grand jury ultimately sided with the committee? He order order that Nixon turnover the tapes for private review but still Nixon refused he would not comply until there was a final final order from the Supreme Court and he was sure that day would never come however the US US circuit. Court of Appeals Upheld Judge Syracuse ruling that Nixon must hand over the tapes. Relevant to the Watergate scandal worried. The Supreme Court may not side with him. Nixon tried to compromise. He would release the recordings but only two Democratic Senator John Stennis Nixon proposed that the seventy two year old well respected Stennis. Listen to the tapes and summarize them for the Special Prosecutor's cuter office. Nixon emphasized that these would be summaries not transcripts. He trusted Stennis to be sensitive. To matters of national. All Security Senator Irvine was opened to the offer but special prosecutor Archibald Cox refused to accept the compromise. He wanted to hear the tapes himself. He wasn't going to rely on the heart of hearing Stennis to accurately convey what was said and Dan. The tone used Cox continued to press for full access to the recordings on the evening of Friday. October tober nineteenth nineteen seventy-three. Nixon ordered Cox to back off and withdraw his subpoena but Cox refused. Nixon had had enough the next day with his back against the wall. He ordered Attorney General. Elliot Richardson to fire Special Special Prosecutor Cox. But Richardson had promised both Cox and Congress that he would not intervene with the special prosecutor's work. He wasn't about to go back on his word instead. Richardson resigned as attorney. General after accepting Richardson's resignation Shen. Nixon turned to the next in line. Deputy Attorney General William ruggles house but he too refused. ruggles house is also chose to resign rather than carry out the order Nixon den went to solicitor. General Robert Bork. He carried out the order and fired. Cox bork planned to resign immediately afterward. But Richardson convinced him to stay. They couldn't leave the Justice Department without any leadership after Cox's departure Nixon dispatched the FBI to the special prosecutor's offices where he ordered. They guard all the materials. The investigation had seized anyone remaining in the office. Working on the Watergate investigation. Kevin was told to take their personal belongings and leave from that point forward. FBI agents were charged with ensuring. No Watergate Watergate. Evidence left the building. The events of that evening were dubbed the Saturday night massacre and the public backlash rush was immediate and immense Nixon had previously been accused of meddling in the Watergate investigation but now the American people all were seeing his interference. Play out live on their televisions. Suddenly what once seemed like hearsay. Were now credible allegations allegations. A new word started circling the investigation impeachment coming up Nixon. Send deals with the fallout of the Saturday night massacre now back to the story in the fall of nineteen eighteen seventy three. US President Richard. Nixon adamantly refused to turn over recordings from the Oval Office. He even went so far as has to force the resignation of the top. Two members of the Justice Department after firing Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox Nixon felt melt the weight of the public backlash on October. Twenty third nineteen seventy-three while under immense pressure. He finally agreed to release some of the Oval Office tapes. And when Acting Attorney General Robert Bork appointed a new special prosecutor. Leon Jawara Ski. Why Nixon didn't intervene no matter what barriers Nixon put in their way? It was clear now that the investigation was going to continue. As planned on Saturday November Seventeenth Nineteen seventy-three Nixon spoke at the Associated Press US Managing Editors Convention and addressed the Watergate affair. I have never obstructed justice and I think too that I could say that in my years of public life that I welcome this kind of examination because people have gotta know whether or not their president's Crook. Well I'm not a Crook Nixon. Nixon insisted that the White House tapes would prove he wasn't a crook and that he did not know about the Watergate break in before it happened. He also claimed he never offered executive clemency for any of the burglars. He emphasized that he didn't learn. Until March twenty first nineteen seventy-three that cover up was underway four days after Nixon's address it was announced that one of the white eight house tapes had an eighteen and a half minute gap. This gap occurred during a conversation between chief of staff. Bob Haldeman and and President Nixon three days after the June nineteen seventy-two break in Nixon claimed he didn't know what was talked about during these missing being minutes but it was clear that it occurred right as the conversation turned to Watergate Rosemary. Woods the President Secretary. We took the blame for the missing audio. She said she was transcribing. The tape when she answered a phone call she thought she hit the stop. Button on the tape tape-recorder but instead must have pushed record when she answered the phone she had kept her foot on the pedal that controlled the playback. This action allowed allowed the tape to be recorded over however because she believed the phone call was only five minutes long. Rosemary couldn't account for the additional thirteen and a half minutes of missing content and when investigators asked Rosemary Woods to reenact the accidental erasure. She physically couldn't every time woods reach to answer the phone. Her foot lifted from the pedal and the machine stopped. The evidence of wrongdoing on the part of the president was building and the public's calls for impeachment grew in response the House of Representatives authorized the House Judiciary Committee to begin their own investigation in February of nineteen seventy I four while the Senate Select Committee looked at policy changes and the Justice Department looked at criminal charges. The thirty eight member House Committee Committee was tasked with investigating potential impeachment. They would spend the next several months determining if there were any grounds to bring charges urges against the president. If they did it would only be the second time in. US history that president was impeached. Meanwhile Special Prosecutor Leon Joie warshafsky obtained seven new indictments from the Watergate. Grand Jury on March first. I nineteen seventy four among those charged. Were campaign director. John Mitchell chief of Staff Bob. Haldeman and aide John Ehrlichman Richard. Nixon wasn't indicted though the grand jury named him a CO conspirator with a trial looming. Leon Gorski needed those White House tapes. If they contained the conversations John Dean claimed they had the evidence necessary to convict frustrated that the president was not cooperating. Jure ski issued a fresh subpoena for sixty four more tapes. In April of Nineteen seventy-four seventy four Nixon's first. Instinct was to continue refusing to comply but his advisers urged him to fall in line. As has it was he'd already been suspected of obstructing justice if it appeared that he was stonewalling the president would risk losing the support in Congress. He was relying on to avoid impeachment. So on April Twenty Ninth Nineteen Seventy Four. Nixon agreed to a compromise. He would release edited transcripts of forty three conversations. The resulting transcript was more than twelve bove thousand pages and it revealed what Nixon claimed all along. He didn't know about the Watergate. Cover up until March nineteen seventy the three and he had no part in it. But these transcripts weren't good enough for your ski so he continued to pursue the subpoena in court. The House Judiciary Committee also rejected the transcripts and issued their own subpoena in May in response. Nixon once again refused to turn over the actual tapes instead he released nineteen audio clips but as the committee members listened. What they heard didn't line up with type transcripts? In some cases whole passages were omitted from the transcript and in other cases key words had been changed for example in one recording Nixon discussed lying under oath with his aides. The the typed transcript read. But you can say I can't recall. This is a simple suggestion not a demand however in the corresponding tape hape Nixon said. Just be damned. Sure you say I don't remember I can't recall. This was an order an in order to commit perjury from the president as the tapes and transcripts were slowly released. They all corroborated John Dean's testimony. It was no longer his word against President Nixon's and if this much was accurate was the rest of what Dean said also true. It wouldn't be long before the American public found out on May thirty first nineteen seventy-four judge CERIGA ordered Nixon to comply with the Subpoena Nixon appealed to the US Supreme Court on July Light Eighth Nineteen seventy four. The Supreme Court heard oral arguments Nixon's attorney reiterated Nixon's claim of executive privilege. Furthermore he claimed Joe Warsi hadn't proven that he actually needed the information he was seeking. He could convict the indicted conspirators without but it just over two weeks later on July twenty fourth. The court made its ruling in a vote of eight two zero WPRO. The justices upheld the subpoena. Nixon had no choice but to turn over the tapes a week later. The Judiciary Committee voted on articles of impeachment against Richard Nixon. They charged him with obstruction of the investigation of the Watergate breaking misuse of power violation of his oath of office and failure to comply with the House Subpoenas Eleven Republicans lukens sitting on. The committee voted against the articles of impeachment. But that wasn't enough to stop them. The articles were then sent to the full House of Representatives. If the House voted to accept them the Senate would then hold a trial. That trial would determine whether or not Richard Nixon stayed in office. It was the moment. America was waiting for but things wouldn't make kid that far on August Fifth Nixon released more of the Secret White House tapes. In compliance with the Supreme Court ruling this included the three conversations. He had with his chief of staff. Bob Haldeman in the first week after the break in one conversation occurred on June twenty twenty-third Nineteen Seventy two in the Oval Office. It started with Haldeman briefing the president on the FBI investigation Haldeman told old the president that the FBI investigation was not under control and FBI Director. Patrick Gray didn't know how he could rain things. Things in Haldeman warned that the agents had followed the trail to some productive areas that would be damaging to the White House he said campaign pain director. John Mitchell and legal counsel John Dean both agreed. The only way forward was to stop the investigation after more more discussion Nixon instructed Haldeman to tell the director of the CIA that the Watergate affair was going to open up the Bay of pigs controversy versi again he ordered that the CIA tell the FBI to call off the investigation. This conversation has become known as the smoking. Gun tape the recording proved the president knew about and participated in the cover up within a week of the break in. He had lied to the public when he repeatedly claimed he didn't learn about it until nine months later there was now how no chance of avoiding impeachment with the release of the smoking gun tape. Nixon would inevitably be ousted from the office. Richard Nixon had fought for over two years to cover up the Watergate break in and his knowledge of it. He resisted subpoenas and fervently Irvin denied the accusations levelled against him by his former advisors but it was all undone by his own taping system on August Eighth Nineteen Seventy-three at two twenty in the afternoon. Press Secretary Ronald Ziegler entered. I heard the press room to read a statement. The place was packed with waiting reporters who hung on his every word. Ziegler's others voice shook as he announced that nine o'clock that night Nixon would address the nation from the Oval Office. Those Ziegler Blur immediately left the room without taking questions. The tremor in his voice gave away the purpose of Nixon's address. The president was going to resign as promised. Nixon addressed the American people on television and radio at nine PM. That evening thing he told the nation that America needed a full time. President not one who was embroiled in seeking personal vindication in Congress and then he made his announcement. I shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow by President for it will be sworn in as president at that hour and this church. Though the announcement wasn't a surprise the country wondered what would come next over the next month. Special Prosecutor. Leon Joe. War Ski weighed that question carefully with Nixon out of office. Could he be charged as a private citizen for crimes committed while he was president. There was no precedent for this and one thing was sure any case against Nixon would be tied up in court for years as the issue was debated it seemed Watergate was is far from over but on September eighth nineteen seventy four newly appointed president. Gerald Ford decided to put an in and to it in a live address Ford announced to a surprised country that he was issuing a complete pardon to Richard Nixon and for any offence. He may have committed during his time as president. Ford insisted he did it. Not Out of consideration for Richard Nixon though Oh he felt he and his family paid a high price already. He did it so the nation could move forward. Richard Nixon accepted accepted the pardon. A total of forty eight people were convicted for crimes related to the Watergate break in and the subsequent cover-up this included Nixon's aides and advisers. John Mitchell Jeb Magruder Bob Haldeman John Ehrlichman and John Dean. They all served time in prison for their crimes. Richard Nixon however spent his time after his presidency rehabilitating the ability of his legacy when he died nearly twenty years later on April Twenty Second Nineteen ninety-four he was regarded did as a respected elder statesman. Though he was never able to completely shake the tarnish of the Watergate affair while the scandal Dole shook the public's trust in the office of the president it also sent a clear message to the White House. No one not. Even the leader of the nation is above the law. Hello thanks for listening to not guilty. We'll be back Thursday with a new case you can find more episodes of not guilty and all other park has originals for free on spotify. Not only spotify already have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals. Like not guilty for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker her to stream not guilty on spotify. Just open the APP and type not guilty in the search bar. Several of you have asked how to help us if you enjoy the show. So the best way to help us is to leave a five star review and don't forget to follow us on facebook and instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast fast network not guilty was created by Max Cutler is a production of cutler media. And is part of the podcast network it is produced by Max and Ron Cutler sound design by Dick Schroeder with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Paul Muller and Carly Madden. This episode of not guilty was written by Charlie Worl. ORL- I'm Vanessa. Richardson don't forget to check out podcasts. Original series dog tales every Monday dog tales shares inspirational true stories of loyalty courage and sacrifice by some of the most heroic Alec canines in history their incredible tales. You don't WanNa Miss Search for dog tales in the spotify APP and listen free today.

Senator John Stennis Nixon president John Mitchell Dean White House Senate Select Committee Watergate Richard Nixon Senate Watergate Elliot Lee Richardson g Gordon Liddy Oval Office US prosecutor Nixon attorney director John Mitchell spotify Senate Watergate Committee
Scandal 1: Watergate

Political Scandals

49:14 min | 9 months ago

Scandal 1: Watergate

"In the year leading up to the twenty twenty election. We're counting down the biggest scandals in american political history. This is number. One watergate when a failed break into the democratic national committee headquarters and subsequent cover-up lead richard nixon to become the first president. In american history to resign the office june seventeenth nineteen seventy two one. Forty-seven am police received a call from a frantic security guard down at washington. Dc's watergate complex. He was convinced. There was a burglary in progress. Somewhere in the office building. Three officers arrived at the scene and began checking offices floor by floor. They hadn't found anyone yet but they could tell something was amiss. Several of the buildings doors had been duct taped open. Finally as they approached the sixth floor office of the democratic national committee they noticed something moving in the dark in unison. They pulled their guns yelling for whoever was there to put their hands up. Five men in suits emerged from the darkness with their hands over their heads as the police officers arrested the intruders. They had no way of knowing that they had just stumbled upon the biggest political scandal in american history. Welcome to political scandals. A spotify original from podcast. I'm richard and i'm kate. You can find all episodes of political scandals and all other spotify originals from podcast for free on spotify or wherever. You listen to podcasts today. In the last episode of our series we'll examine the collapse of president. Richard nixon's illegal operation to spy on his opponent. In the nineteen. Seventy two presidential election will also get into how the reverberations of this massive coverup led to jail time for his cabinet members and the first ever presidential resignation as we wind down this whirlwind of scandals. Richard and i wanted to take the time to share a few thoughts and express what this podcast has meant to us. Political scandals has been one of our favorite podcasts. At podcast we learned a lot about scandals and characters from history. That shocked and sometimes amused us. When we first heard we were going to be doing a show about political scandals we were sure this was a show that would never end but we did know from the very get go that this was just the top fifty four scandals leading up to the twenty twenty election. We both really appreciate the hard work of writers the producers and the production team and personally for me kate. It's been a particular pleasure and privilege to work with you. I have loved working together. Has meant so much to me and we also wanna take a moment to thank you all the listeners. Without you none of this would be possible and we hope you all are staying safe and well now that we've got all the pleasantries out of the way we can get into the scandal. All other scandals are compared to coming up. We'll explore nixon's network of espionage. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by sport. Clips haircuts from start to finish sportclips provide so much more than a haircut. It's an experience. I cut the weight with ondeck text. Alerts you'll get a fifteen minute heads up when it's time to head and another text alert when you're next in line then treat yourself to a sport clips signature service. The mvp experience from a hot steam towel over your face to a relaxing massaging sample. That makes you feel like melting into your seat. It's the convenience that an mvp like you deserves only at sportclips checking on the app or online at sportclips dot com slash. Check in this episode is brought to you by sport clips haircuts sportclips is giving you more ways to save time so you can enjoy your primetime with on that text alerts. You'll get a fifteen minute heads up when it's time to head in and another tech's alert when you're next in line for your haircut checking on the app or online at sportclips dot com slash check in on january twentieth nineteen sixty nine richard. M nixon was sworn in as the thirty seventh president of the united states in his inaugural address he heralded a bold new era of transparency accountability and diplomacy. He told america. I have taken an oath in the presence of god and my countrymen to uphold and defend the constitution of the united states to that oath. I now add this sacred commitment. I shall consecrate my office my energies and all the wisdom i can summon to the cause of peace among nations. Every word of it was ally even with this grand sweeping rhetoric nixon's first day as president wouldn't be nearly as notable as his last just five years after his inspiring inaugural address president. Nixon resigned over his role in the watergate scandal. The watergate forced his resignation nixon's downfall arguably started on june thirteenth. Nineteen seventy-one on that day. The new york times began publishing the pentagon papers a classified defense department report it proved several presidential administrations had lied to the american public about the nation's involvement in vietnam. The leaked secret report covered the years. Nineteen forty-five five to nineteen sixty seven. Meaning the document didn't actually cover the period in which nixon had been in office however that didn't stop president nixon from becoming profoundly paranoid because the leak had occurred while he was president. Nixon was convinced that his presidency was under attack in his mind. It was evidence of a huge radical left wing plot to undermine him even more importantly nixon was terrified that his own vietnam secrets would be leaked. Although nixon kept his promise to the american people to reduce american troop numbers in vietnam. He was none the less expanding the war in a geographic sense he secretly and very illegally sanctioned bombing in laos and cambodia national security advisor. Henry kissinger had urged nixon to bomb cambodia telling. The president was essential to stop the flow of communist troops into vietnam. And since nixon did not have congress's permission to bomb cambodia the missions were covert the nixon administration's first move was to try and stop the times from publishing any more of the defense report but the times refused and litigation ensued made it all the way to the supreme court and on june thirtieth nineteen seventy-one in the case of the united states versus the new york times company. The supreme court ultimately cited against the president just hours after the supreme court decision in a meeting with kissinger and white house. Chief of staff bob. Haldeman nixon asked for advice he needed to know how to respond to the continued release of the pentagon papers in what would soon become a pattern of outlandish an illegal ideas. Haldeman suggested that nixon blackmail his predecessor president johnson into publicly. Disputing the papers. Haldeman believed that. The brookings institution a nonprofit institute that studied government policy was the source of the pentagon papers leak. He also believed that. Brookings was in possession of a report detailing the johnson administration's covert and illegal activities in vietnam as it turns out. There was no such report yet. In a harbinger of events. To come that didn't stop the administration from forging ahead. It planned a series of highly illegal and completely moronic operations to discredit their political opponents. Nixon immediately seized upon the blackmail idea urging haldeman to implement the houston plan. The proposed security operation written by white house aide. Tom houston outlined. Plans for illegal surveillance and domestic break-ins of supposed radical leftist terrorists. But now instead of terrorists. Nixon wanted to use the plan. A former president ever the pragmatist. Kissenger suggested that the administration. Just ask for the file from brookings president nixon however refused to back down saying i wanted implemented on a thievery basis. God damn it get in and get those files blow the safe and get it from there. The plan quickly devolved from burglary to arson. Another presidential aide. Unbelievably suggested that. Nixon operatives firebomb. The headquarters of brookings theoretically while firefighters fought the blaze white house. Operatives could run in and grab the files it seem that even nixon's top level advisers were succumbing to the president's unhinged paranoia but thankfully the preposterous plan was ultimately abandoned nonetheless. Nixon simply couldn't let sleeping dogs lie in june of nineteen seventy-one strategic analyst. Daniel ellsberg publicly admitted his role in releasing the document to the press naturally. He became the president's new target ellsberg worked for the rand corporation a global policy think tank and had contributed research to the pentagon papers. He was disturbed by what he discovered. In his opinion the vietnam war was not the civil war it had been presented as but rather a war of foreign aggression american aggression on july twenty fourth. Nixon met with two advisers john. Ehrlichman and eagle crow to find a way to discredit ellsberg or at the very least embarrass him. Crowe set up shop in rooms. Sixteen in the basement of the executive office building there. He enlisted g. Gordon liddy and howard hunt to former cia employees as his assistance though their official team name was the white house. Special investigations unit. They became much more well known as the plumbers since their main goal was to stop any and all leaks in their misguided and a necessarily elaborate scheme to discredit ellsberg liddy and hunt flew to los angeles. A month later on. August twenty fifth ellsberg's psychiatrist's. Office hunt then contacted his former. Cia colleague bernard barker who brought on to others to perform the break in. The three men broke into the psychiatrist's office on september. Third with liddy and hunt serving as lookouts finding daniel ellsberg's patient file. They quickly discovered that it contained little to no damaging information crestfallen. They simply left the open file on the floor and got out as quickly as they'd entered your meeting after the hilariously inept mission john erlich mun updated nixon on the situation saying we had one little operation. It's been aborted out in los angeles. Which i think is better that you don't know about as the pentagon papers controversy died down nixon's paranoia shifted from leaks to the upcoming presidential election. The committee for the re election of the president or crp had a sensibly been formed. Help fundraise for the president's reelection campaign behind the scenes though the committee had much shadier intentions in january of nineteen seventy-two hunt and liddy were transferred from the special investigations unit to the crp. They were to utilize their questionable. Espionage skills against nixon's democratic opponents liddy quickly came up with an elaborate plan to gather intelligence on the democratic party. His scheme code named operation gemstone involved forgery wiretapping and burglaries to gather information about prominent democrats financial status and sexual proclivities far from being unofficial an unsanctioned. These illegal plans were approved by attorney general. John mitchell the plan was put into action on may twenty eighth nineteen seventy-two while democratic. Staffers were out of the office for memorial day. Operatives working for liddy were busy breaking into the democratic national committee's headquarters located within the seemingly secure watergate complex in washington dc. The headquarters were surrounded by a hotel apartments and offices along the potomac river. Once the republican operatives had gained entry bypassing security guards and locked doors they bugged the phones of the dnc chairman and the state democratic chairman. The next day liddy reported to deputy director of the crp jeb magruder that the covert operation had been only partially successful. Since one of the wiretaps had failed. But it seemed like an easy fix liddy could simply organiz another break into recap the. Dnc's phone this time. All would go smoothly little. Did he know that this seemingly simple crime would eventually crumble nixon's entire administration gumming up. Nixon operatives are caught red-handed leading to the most elaborate political cover up in american history. Hello listeners it's richard from podcast network. We all know that when it comes to love every story is unique some layout like fairy tales and some don't in our love story the new spotify original from park. Ask you'll discover the many pathways to love as told by the actual couples who found them every tuesday. Our love story celebrates the ups downs and pivotal moments. That turned complete strangers into perfect pairs. Each episode offers an intimate glimpse inside a real life. Romance with couples recounting the highlights and hardships that. Define their love. Whether it's a chance encounter a former friendship or even a former enemy. Our love story proves that love can begin and blossom in the most unexpected ways. Follow our love story freon spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Since you're enjoying this episode playstation five will make this lightning-fast playstation five has lightning fast loading than you have to see to believe. Don't blink when the ultra high-speed. Ssd gives you near instant load times. Because that s with integrated. I o rewrites. The rules of what a playstation console can do an actual lightning bolt as up to one billion volts of electric. Definitely not safe so instead. You can harness the power of a custom. Cpu and gpu and it will feel like lightning that a safe touch with support for haptic feedback and adaptive triggers experience incredible graphics and new features with an all new generation of incredible playstation games experience. What's possible with playstation five at playstation dot com play has no limits launches november twelve twenty twenty now back to the story. G gordon liddy an advisor to nixon's committee to re elect. The president needed dirt on nixon's democratic rivals. The only problem was during his previous break in at the democratic national committee's headquarters. The bugging devices is operatives. Had placed in staffers telephones didn't work to lady. It seemed like no problem at all to break in again. After all his team had done it before and not gotten caught so on june sixteenth nineteen seventy-two in room seven twenty three at the howard johnson motor lodge across the street from watergate to of is operatives staked out the dnc's office in the small motel room james mccord the crp's chief security officer ready listening equipment and surveillance cameras as he watched the dnc office. It seemed as if the democratic staffers would never leave but finally at around midnight the very last. Dnc worker went home turning off the lights behind him. Also in the watergate office complex that evening were g gordon liddy and howard hunt the each had their own walkie talkie directing the break in from a safe distance. Meanwhile a twenty four year old watergate security guard was just starting his midnight to seven. Am shift normally. His job was mind-numbingly tedious at tonight's shift would be one for the history books at around twelve thirty. Am while making his normal rounds. The security guard discovered that a parking garage door had been tampered with a piece of duct tape had been placed over the lock thinking little of it. He removed the tape and continued on his rounds in reality that duct tape had been placed by james mccord to prevent the door from locking. the guard. had no idea that a break in was occurring upstairs of the dnc offices at that very moment meanwhile mcchord and his crew began carefully placing listening devices and rifling through papers in the dnc headquarters at one. Forty seven am. The security guards circled back to the parking garage. As he continued making his rounds. That's when he noticed something was wrong. The door had duct tape on it again this time. He immediately called the police to report a burglary. Three plain clothes police officers happened to be the closest to the scene that night. They arrived at the watergate complex in an unmarked car without sirens. The lookouts had no way of knowing they were the police. As the officers case the building they found more doors that had been duct taped open when the trail eventually wound its way to dnc offices. They kick down the door and pulled out their revolvers. The police turned the lights on and shouted for the suspects to put their hands in the air. Ten hands in blue surgical gloves immediately. Shot up the five intruders. Were oddly all wearing business. Suits one officer later said of the scene. I don't think i've ever locked up another burglar that was dressed in a suit and tie and in middle age on the intruders persons. An in their watergate hotel rooms were bugging devices. Rolls of film tear-gas pens thousands of dollars in consecutively numbered one hundred dollar bills and address books with the name howard hunt the five burglars gave fake names and refused to speak further. It would be several days before the crime became linked to the nixon administration. The following day lady approached the new attorney general. Richard kleindienst tree. golf course. He urged findings to release mcchord before he could be linked to nixon's reelection committee. Although kleindienst rejected the request he did not make any effort to stop. Ladies attempted cover-up it turned out liddy was too late when the associated press reported that mccord was connected to the crp john mitchell now serving as nixon's campaign manager. Put out a press statement distancing the crp from the watergate break-in he stated. We want to emphasize that this man and the other people involved were not operating either on our behalf or with our consent. I am surprised and dismayed at these reports. On june nineteenth lady admitted to white house counsel john dean that the break in was his operation that he'd been under pressure from the crp leadership for compromising information on democrats after speaking with liddy dean informed. White house advisor. John ehrlichman and white house chief of staff bob haldeman of the crp's involvement that evening dean met with john mitchell and deputy director of the crp jeb magruder to discuss ways to cover up the committee's involvement with the watergate crime after the meeting mcgruder called his office to have his operation. Gemstone files. Destroyed while mcgruder was busy destroying records. Nixon was doing the complete opposite creating them with every conversation he had since fdr every president had recorded important white house conversations on tape. Nixon system was the first to be voice activated which meant nearly all chats in the oval office were recorded. Nixon had the new system installed because he was paranoid that the press and other politicians would misrepresent him. June twentieth was the first recorded. Instance of nixon discussing watergate that morning. Haldeman and nixon spoke of the controversy but the conversation was lost to history after the tape was recorded over and although many have their suspicions nixon had not had any direct or demonstrable involvement with the dnc espionage prior to this meeting a few days later the washington post was the first newspaper to report that howard hunt's name had been discovered at the crime scene and that hunt was directly connected to the white house. No one knew. At the time that bob woodward the author of the story had gotten his information from a secret. Fbi source code named deep throat. Deep throat's true identity would not be revealed until many years later as mark felt deputy director of the fbi at the time the fbi was conducting. It's simple investigation into watergate. And his information emerged felt grew more and more frustrated by what he discovered felt believed the nixon administration's intelligence efforts were inappropriate especially when used for spying on political rivals and knowing he would likely be obstructed by an attorney general sympathetic to nixon. His only choice was to become an informant president. Nixon wouldn't become fully entrenched in the crime until june. Twenty third three days later in another meeting with haldeman. The white house chief of staff suggested the president put pressure on the fbi to stop their investigation. Alden felt the bureau was getting too close to connecting watergate to the white house. He mentioned there was a direct money trail from the crp too. Many of the burglars in response nixon told haldeman to lie to the fbi and say the crp funds had been intended for a covert cia mission. Nixon then insisted that haldeman tell the fbi to not go further into this case period to stay the hell out of this business. Though president nixon would not publicly. Speak about watergate for over a month is team. Would the week of the break in white house. Press secretary described the incident as a third rate burglary attempt and said. The white house had no knowledge of the situation. Meanwhile across the country in newport beach california another unbelievable controversy had coalesce john mitchell's wife. Martha was vacationing in california. When she discovered the james mccord a man she knew work closely with her husband at the crp had taken part in the watergate break-in as she was calling a reporter friend on june twenty second to report on her discovery. The call suddenly cut out a security guard that mitchell had hired to keep an eye on his wife had yanked the phone out of the wall. Martha mission was not heard from until several days later when an investigative reporter found her a country club in rye new york. The reporters said martha looked beaten with black and blue marks. All up her arms in press interviews martha mitchell said she was held captive. Inner california hotel room when she tried to escape several men attacked her and nixon's personal. Doctor sedated her far from making headlines however mitchell salacious story was relegated to the human interest and gossip pages of the newspapers. Nixon officials claimed that mitchell had a drinking problem and could not be trusted. Her story was largely dismissed at the time but it is now believed that mitchell was indeed kidnapped in an effort to keep her quiet as more connections emerged between the burglary and the crp nixon and his associates strategy shifted from denial to placing full blame on the crp and specifically g. Gordon liddy on june. Twenty eighth louis was fired from the crp for refusing to cooperate with the f. b. i. Investigation the ever. Loyal liddy was more than happy to be the scapegoat due to his undying and profoundly misguided allegiance to nixon mouth shut so the bigger fish at the crp were safe temporarily. Indeed the crp's direct connection to watergate will be revealed to the public on august first. The washington post ran a story reporting that a twenty five thousand dollar check that had been earmarked for the nixon reelection campaign had ended up in one of the watergate. Burglars bank accounts by this point. The office of the us attorney for the district of columbia had already convened a grand jury to hear evidence on watergate. On august sixteenth mcgruder gave perjured testimony saying no one in the crp had known of ladies actions even more scandalous than the perjury itself. Though was the fact that mcgruder had rehearsed his false account with nixon's white house counsel. John dean who would soon have his fingerprints all over the cover up on august. Thirtieth nixon announced that dean had conducted an extensive investigation. He concluded that no one from the white house had been involved in reality. No such investigation was ever conducted on september fifteenth nineteen seventy-one lady hunt mcchord and the other four watergate. Burglars were indicted by the district of columbia. Grand jury they would now anxiously await trial. Meanwhile the washington post kept churning out stories about nixon's white house bob woodward and fellow reporter. Carl bernstein were doggedly investigating the watergate scandal cultivating sources within the government. In order to bring the truth to light. Soon they would hit pay dirt an article. They published on september twenty ninth alleged that former attorney general mitchell had overseen a secret slush fund to finance anti-democrat intelligence gathering in october the post reported the fbi's conclusion that the watergate break in was directly connected to spy efforts on the part of nixon's campaign. Then they reported that the crp had also been involved in additional and successful dirty tricks. Against the presidential candidates for example several incriminating letters had been forged on democratic presidential hopeful edmund muskie's letterhead these ended up tarnishing his public image and costing him the nomination with the nineteen seventy two presidential election. Fast approaching. the question was would. The american people hold the president accountable for the crimes committed by members of his administration and as each day passed. It seemed like more and more incriminating details were revealed about white house at some point. The dam had to break it. Turns out the breaking point would come sooner than anyone could have imagined coming up. The watergate investigation turns all eyes on president nixon. Now back to the story in the months leading up to the nineteen seventy two presidential election. Bob woodward and carl bernstein of the washington post published a series of reports that pinned several crimes including the watergate break in nixon administration. It seemed like the biggest scandal in a generation but despite the deluge of sensational reports most americans believed the president when he said watergate was a minor crime that it wasn't connected to his white house in fact at the time of the nineteen seventy two presidential election nixon had over a sixty percent approval rating. The result of the november seventh election was hardly a surprise. Nixon defeated democrat george mcgovern in a landslide every single state besides massachusetts achieving the whitest popular vote margin in american history. No one had any doubt that nixon would win re election which makes the entire watergate operation even more bizarre ultimately nixon and his colleagues unwarranted paranoia about his political prospects was what brought them all down and despite nixon's best efforts the cover up of the crp's crimes wouldn't stay hidden for long. Everything would fall apart for the president in one thousand nine hundred. Seventy three on january eighth nineteen seventy-three the five watergate intruders plus howard hunt and g. Gordon liddy were finally put on trial by january thirtieth all but two suspects had pleaded guilty. Commended not have to testify if they pleaded guilty. Judge john serena worried though that the plaintiffs were protecting the real masterminds behind the crime at the conclusion of the trial circa warned the watergate criminals that they would receive extremely long sentences if they refuse to cooperate with the ongoing investigations knowing the men. Were hiding something. Ceriga called for a senate investigation into watergate. The democratic controlled senate listened and on february seventh established the select committee on presidential campaign activities also known as the urban committee in light of this. The pressure was mounting on the nixon administration. Especially john dean. The mastermind the cover up dean immediately met with nixon in the oval office to get the president up to speed and explain their most recent setback. Howard hunt was now blackmailing the administration threatening to reveal his link to the crp and nixon white house if he didn't receive one hundred thirty five thousand dollars. The way dean explained it to nixon was that they had two problems one. We are being blackmailed. To people are going to start perjuring themselves. Very quickly overwhelmed. Dean went on to say we have a cancer close to the presidency. That's growing it's growing daily. It's compounding later that day. Mitchell approved a seventy five thousand dollar payment to hunts lawyer allegedly to cover his legal expenses. But it wasn't hunt that the crp had to worry about after all it was mcchord. The watergate burglar was terrified of going to jail and broke his silence in a secret. Letter to judge ricca. Mcchord accused the nixon administration of orchestrating a massive cover-up judge circa made the letter public at the watergate. Sentencing hearing on march twenty third reading the entire document allowed to shocked witnesses. Then he handed down the harshest ince's permitted by law to all of the watergate intruders. Twenty to thirty five years respectively mcchord however got. His sentence delayed a reward. It seemed for the letter. This was the moment. The watergate cover up completely and utterly imploded after the sentences were handed down the crp. Deputy director jeb mcgruder panicked. He told dean he planned to confess to the grand jury to secure an immunity deal seeing the writing on the wall. Dean then beat mcgruder to the punch and started cooperating with watergate prosecutors himself on april sixth nineteen seventy-three to make matters worse on april ninth. The new york times reported that mccord in his testimony to the grand jury stated that the watergate burglars had received money directly from the crp after the break in the next day the washington post confirmed the story adding that the payments were explicitly in exchange for the burglars silence if there was a cancer close to the presidency then august thirtieth was the day of the surgery that day bore witness to a cascade of oustings white house. Chief of staff bob. Haldeman white house domestic affairs council john. Erlich men and attorney general richard kleindienst. all resigned. white house counsel john. Dean was fired. And that evening president nixon gave his first official public address on watergate. In his speech he said i will not place blame on subordinates. On people whose zeal exceeded their judgement. And who may have done wrong in a cause. They deeply believed to be right. Despite nixon's pledge he was doing just that placing blame on his staff and proclaiming his innocence. Nixon got rid of his advisors right on time. Shortly after on may second the new york times reported that haldeman ehrlichman dean and mitchell had all taken part in the watergate cover up and that these former presidential advisors would likely be indicted. The public would get front row seats to the watergate drama. Just two weeks later on may seventeenth nineteen seventy-three the first day of public hearings by the urban committee. The hearings were broadcast coast to coast. And most americans tuned in in fact over eighty five percent of the. Us watched a portion of the public testimony. The same day nixon's new attorney general elliot. Richardson appointed former us. Solicitor general archibald cox to the position of watergate special prosecutor he would be in charge of the executive branches. Investigation and cox made it clear. He would have complete independence from president. Nixon on june twenty-fifth dean testified in front of the irvine committee saying he discussed the cover up at least thirty five times with nixon. As each day of the hearings past things were looking more and more grim for nixon. The biggest blow to the president would come on july sixteenth. When alexander butterfield nixon's former aide revealed the existence of nixon's elaborate taping system in the oval office. Needless to say the senate committee and special prosecutor cox wanted their hands on those tapes immediately. The recordings could finally answer. Senator howard baker's infamous question from the hearing. What did the president know. And when did he know it. That question would not be answered quickly. However nixon refused to hand over the tapes citing presidential privilege it would take months of court battles before a decision on the nixon recordings would be made. In the meantime nixon doggedly maintained. He was innocent in his second watergate address on august fifteenth nineteen seventy-three. Nixon argued that the hearings were a political smear job. He claimed it has become clear that both the hearings themselves and some of the commentaries on them have become increasingly absorbed in an effort to implicate the president personally in the illegal activities that took place. It was hard to believe he was innocent when everyone the president seemed guilty. The atmosphere of chaos devolved even further when in a completely unrelated scandal. Vice president spiro. Agnew resigned on october. Ten nineteen seventy-three. Agnew had been accused of income tax evasion and bribery which reflected poorly on nixon regardless the president was then pressed to select gerald ford. A michigan congressman as Agnew's successor despite the cascade of resignations within his cabinet not to mention nixon's increasingly obvious involvement throughout october. Nixon and his associates tried to convince special prosecutor cox to drop his subpoena of the white house. Tapes to his credit cox refused which made nixon even more upset on october twentieth. In what became known as the saturday night massacre demanded that attorney general. Richardson fire cox rather than obey the order. Richardson resigned the second in line. The deputy attorney general followed suit and also resigned in protest that left solicitor. General robert bork. The acting attorney general unlike his colleagues though he was more than happy to follow nixon's orders. The president's impetuous actions had almost immediate consequences however as cox's firing proved to be a political disaster for the nixon administration. Politicians from both parties agreed that it made the president look guilty. Nixon wouldn't publicly addressed these concerns until november seventeen in a televised address from walt disney world of all places nixon. Once again asserted his innocence. Infamously declaring. I am not a crook. But even if he wasn't a crook his administration's behavior was awfully suspicious. Amid november harris poll found that eighty three percent of americans had a negative opinion on nixon's handling of watergate and that opinion only got worse on november twenty first when white house watergate council revealed to watergate prosecutors that there was an eighteen and a half minute gap in one of the tapes. They had requested days later. Nixon secretary claim she accidentally recorded over the tape. It would take nearly four more months but on march first the watergate seven which included john mitchell bob haldeman and john ehrlichman were indicted by a grand jury president. Nixon was named an unindicted co-conspirator. Since he was president nixon could not be indicted but the new special prosecutor. Leon jawara sqi wanted to make sure everyone knew. Nixon was implicated president. Nixon was clearly feeling the pressure finally. He caved partially at least and released. Twelve hundred edited transcripts of the white house tapes. On april thirtieth but what nixon and his associates thought would prove his innocence ended up backfiring as americans were shocked by nixon's foul language and pettiness. Every curse word in the transcript had been replaced by expletive deleted the expression litter the documents becoming a national punchline in the process nixon's release of the transcripts was too little too late for the democratic led house of representatives on may ninth nineteen seventy four. The house judiciary committee opened impeachment proceedings against nixon. Meanwhile the fight over the physical white house types finally reached the highest court in the land. The supreme court ruled that nixon must hand over all sixty four tapes to special prosecutor. Jawara sqi in an eight zero decision that unanimous decision forced nixon's hand and the end was nigh. congress was nearly unanimous on nixon's guilt as well. On july thirtieth. The house judiciary committee recommended three articles of impeachment for nixon misuse of power obstruction of justice and contempt of congress. The committee sent the articles to the floor of the house for a vote but that vote never came. The impeachment vote was halted. Because republican congressman. Believed they could talk nixon into resigning. Their argument for resignation only became stronger on august. Fifth when the white house released transcripts from three oval office conversations on june twenty third nineteen seventy-two one of these conversations in which nixon demanded the fbi. Stop its investigation into the watergate. Break-in became known as the smoking gun. Two days later republican senators. Barry goldwater and hugh scott along with house minority leader. John rhodes spoke to nixon. All three urged him to resign saying he simply did not have the votes to survive impeachment. The very next day on august eighth nineteen seventy four in a nationally televised speech. The president announced. You would be resigning a tired looking. Nixon declared i have never been a quitter to leave office before my term is completed is abhorrent to every instinct in my body but as president. I must put the interest of america. I therefore i shall resign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow on august ninth. Nixon signed his official letter of resignation and walked out to the presidential helicopter marine one waiting on the south lawn with his family as he stepped onto the helicopter. Nixon flashed a smile and gave his signature salute arms overhead fingers in a v for victory however as the only president to ever resign. It was anything but he was leaving cloaked in shame. Less now the nixon wasn't president he could be indicted for his part in the watergate. Cover up but nixon was almost immediately rescued by his vice president. Gerald ford who'd been sworn in upon nixon's resignation just a month later on september eighth. Ford gave nixon a full presidential. Pardon still other watergate. Collaborators were not so lucky. G gordon liddy spent over four years in prison. John mitchell john. Ehrlichman and bob haldeman all spent around eighteen months in federal penitentiaries. Oddly the mastermind of the cover up. John dean only spent four months in prison. In total watergate resulted in sixty nine indictments with forty eight convictions. It would take years to untangle the web of espionage cover-ups and pure incompetence orchestrated by the nixon administration. And despite the massive number of people involved and indictments handed down in the watergate cover up most are still livid that nixon himself was never charged. President nixon's cover up will always be remembered as the height of american political corruption. In fact almost every scandal proceeding it as been given the suffix gate to link it to the greatest political scandal in. us history watergate. Thanks for listening to this season of political scandals. We've truly enjoyed sharing these stories with you. You can find all episodes of political scandals. And all other spotify originals. From podcast for free on spotify political scandals was created by max cutler and is a spotify. Original from podcast. It is executive produced by max cutler. Sound designed by billy pace with production assistance bhai ron shapiro carly madden and travis clark. This episode of political scandals was written by matt hartman with writing assistance by mackenzie more and stars kate. Leonard and richard roster. Hi it's richard again searching for your new favourite show. Remember to follow the newest spotify original from podcast. Our love story. Every tuesday catch an intimate glimpse inside a real life. Romance with couples recounting the highlights and hardships that. Define their love. Listen to our love story. Freon spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

nixon Nixon President nixon liddy howard hunt white house gordon liddy mcgruder mcchord vietnam ellsberg fifteen minute pentagon james mccord dnc crp Haldeman fbi haldeman jeb magruder
The Mob and the Teamsters Part 3 -Roy Lee Williams

Gangland Wire

1:02:26 hr | 11 months ago

The Mob and the Teamsters Part 3 -Roy Lee Williams

"You are listening to gangland wire hosted by former Kansas City police intelligence unit detective Jerry Jenkins. Welcome, all you are average out there back here with. Liquids Episode Number Three in the Gargantuan. Overarching tale of the mob, the teamsters with with my good friend Communist Robertson. Hare who did a lot of research on this cam welcome. Glad as always be with you gary. Yeah you are. You. Are you want to see your work your work? No. There's not much use in doing all this research unless somebody can hear it or learn about it or whatever read it or Arab you do it. Econo- do it for your own? Entertainment and I do a lot for my own entertainment sometimes I go down a rabbit hole and I know you do to that verse it back your work at me. Down Rabbit Hole, I don't really ever do anything with it but I. Ask Myself Yeah yeah absolutely. Absolutely I think we were talking about that earlier, but that's yeah I would I would go and my wife did not always share my enthusiasm when I would when I would pull on a phrase. I was glad we hooked up really. They call you for. Ever, take air something the fourth or fifth time. Here's. Just almost solving forty year old crimes you know. I guess you've ever done. Not Me not just don't ask her I know I have every are back with the teamsters we're talking about the mob in we've Kinda got. Fitzsimmons has taken over and Jimmy is in jail He finally got put jail he beat the case but he bribed the jury to do it I believe and then they counted up the jury bribery and jury tampering, and so he's in the penitentiaries in was Lewisburg yeah yeah on that Marlboro. If you saw the. Irishman you know that's where he and Tony Pro Kinda had a falling out during that time. So we're we're at that point in time he he is GonNa get out of prison. He is they have basically bribe. Richard. Nixon with a million dollars to get him out but they put a stipulation on it. The the union dead fits in some other people. With the Union and the mob of course had to approve of that. Did that because Allen Dorfman was part of putting that money to go but they put a stipulation there that he couldn't come back in and having to do any teamsters business and and Jimmy Hoffa being out of the penitentiary and not being able to help run the teamsters union would. He'd be like a cage lion when he absolutely he was that was his union, his baby, his creation, and the idea of other people it was just just apoplectic to somebody else had taken his union HOFFA had plenty of money every I mean, he made ten percent on every teamsters loan you're talking millions but without his union that was it was such a control freak. So. that. Was it for him. Really. Probably weren't including men on the acts. Like we, we know that he was getting kickbacks from. For loans that he made and then Chicago the outfit tried to step in on it. We heard that tape were joy Lombardo threaten Shankar and said, you know we're in on it and Shankar says, well, I dealt with Hoffa and often tell me by you guys. On it and he never did pay them any money by the way. But Dorfman and then build pressure. We talked about him out of Cleveland and they're still you know making these loans, Las Vegas Casinos and getting kickbacks for doing that and actually they got caught and Dorfman got year in the penitentiary for taking those kick. McAfee's mouths shuten. Daddy's time and came out from between seventy two semi up to send me six. That's when the outfit and Lombardo really start working closely together joy Lombardo joy. The clown would be over door from his office almost your day every day. Cam talking and shooting the breeze and making sure that Dorfman was doing. Alright stuff and. Brescia pressure was. was operate with his mob guy makes you win back East Cleveland and they approved a lot alone during that time, you've got to figure down there one hundred and eighty three, million dollars alone between seventy two and seventy six. This is before the Allen Glick Sixty two, million dollar loan. So boy right right and these were these were done on yellow notepads no formal application, no credit check and most times no collateral. I mean, the AD, half the loan, fifty loans in default losing fifteen, million a year in interest payments I mean he just show up and they'd right Gel something on a piece of paper and I. Oh, you I mean. Ernest time some people would say they really built the Las Vegas Strip. They couldn't get. Those loans to build all those casinos or remodeled casinos like you know, circus circus got a big loan to to build a big tower and remodeling and do that kind things matter of fact, the the Union Plaza the downtown hotel. a huge big. Hotel Tower, downtown and and it was It was built with you know they called it the Union Plaza back then and it was built all with teams your money wiretaps are all over the place. The FBI as is really trying to figure out what these guys are doing. And You know they start figuring stuff out here in Kansas City. This prepaid insurance. Plan that they got into that was a big deal there another way games we talked about those before at one of the early times that Knicks Avella, he had a plan I. Think I mentioned this before did first time he threatened Roy Williams, they had a plan that was gonNA. Provide these guys with some insurance dental insurance, but it really wasn't any good and they had a scam dentist set up to take it and it was gonna take like five dollars member teamster every month, which would really you know they may not even pay attention to it and Roy Williams said, but you know this this isn't any good I mean we're just Ripley's guys off and Knicks Avella had been and have a talk with him. And say, no, we are going to do. So. They took that money for a while and continued every scam. They could you know on a national level Dorfman them were coming up with his prepaid insurance that would would be there'd be a lot of fake claims. Made from doctors that they had their pocket to get in they'd get kickbacks from doctors and and it was. They just they just use as your own personal piggy bank. Didn't it? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely we've got. One put together between the Cleveland mobs in the La mobs really were really. Tight A. Nikola cod, I can't remember but. Industrial Consultants, People's industrial consultants they came up with these great names for things. Generic names were really fit in and involved fits Fitz Fitzsimmons and the FBI. They recorded Fitzsimmons meeting with mob figures from from Cleveland and Los. Angeles. At the La Costa resort which is built with teamsters money. That was basically where all the mob guys in San. Diego used to play golf. They'd come up from Palm Springs and they'd come out and Allen. Dorfman was a regular there and they'd get rub downs and play golf and that was that was the teamsters mafia place play golf Richard Nixon also played there and the FBI went and they wanted to put up additional wiretaps because we've got the head of the teamsters meeting with known mob figures discussing insurance plans and Nixon's. Attorney General William Diced on. Strict Orders Nixon. Denied the FBI that he told them leave it alone. Leave it alone, and this is the power. The teamsters had the attorney general. The United States is telling the FBI, no wiretaps because they needed their votes and their money. Yeah. That's that's the key keeper. A mob is to have control of a union and the union be really politically active. That's that is the deal, and now we're coming into the time of the beginning of the end with the Arjun. Loan. Dorfman and presser were big into this and actually Frank balanced a is my understanding. Was a one that. This guy named Allen Glick got introduced to from Las Vegas. He was a guy named Busey area. There have also have lost his his first name I. Don't remember if I talked about this before but because he ended up getting killed. Yeah. Nick. Goose. Here he or something moves here. Ya and I know you're talking about he. He's supposedly Beta's introduction to. said. Blix okay and made his introduction about story. So he goes a ballast during then balanced stereo goes to course, CHICAGO Actually went to Cleveland in Kansas City because they had they really own the pension fund that the time and said, you know I got this guy and he's GonNa. Let's do whatever we want to do. You know what he did it was it was a weird deal it's in that The. Argentine. FILE OF THE COURT FILE HE HAD A. Note just a handwritten note drawn up and Glick promised Frank Ballas Jerry actually promised his sons both the humor lawyers that if he ever wanted to get out of the Arctic Corporation, he would sell it to them for like twenty five thousand dollars I mean it was. Just it was bizarre. It was like it wouldn't even make sense. There's no way that could stand in court but for some reason I think maybe that was a test the see glick would do whatever they wanted to do, and only thing I can figure he paid. He kept buys Jerry sons on a an ongoing retainer fifty thousand dollars during this time to. Found paperwork the showed that and and they really weren't doing anything. You know just make a few calls back. There wasn't a while right? Right your in house counsel call the Bow Story Law Firm and and get on the phone with them fifteen or twenty minutes every month and and they'd send out a bill for fifty thousand dollars and they just pay it so. I mean when you got that kind of money flowing around, anybody can be corrupted I. think it's just yeah. Yeah, and that's and that's totally legitimate money. So that's that's what they like. Just you know they said, yeah for for legal fees and. Charges for our legal fees. We're really good and then they just pay taxes on it and you know there's absolutely nothing you can do. Done but being part of a great big investigation and writing it into you know showing the Ritz of it I tell some of these same stories cam over and over again, it seems like and I don't forget where I tell him but I had FBI from out in Las Vegas it would station with the Milwaukee at the time and they didn't really know they new balance Jerry but they were not real active was just starting to get active on Bella Story. And they're working their lower level guys in and this Guy Gary. Gary Gary Magnusson is book folks Straw. Man which he tells about the founding of bow story when they first started followed. Around. He talks a lot about bouts during then he got transferred out to la I mean not to Las Vegas and worked a whole Straw man case which was where we call them cut bringing a scam out of Stardust and Tropicana. But he he said that nobody knew who frank rainy was and he just happened to be following `bout sturridge's by himself. That's how you do. You pick up on a guy and say, well, where's he going and he's just see where he's Going Faouzi man and he was able to stay behind him well enough and the Australia no he was there any follow him out to a farm somewhere out in the country and they met another guy he wrote down the license plate number and it came back to this frank rany who was on the teamsters Central State teamsters, Pension Fund board so that that was that's right contact with that I didn't even know about him before so that they start putting that together with them Rochman and then Roy Lee Williams got his direction from next Allah and put together that huge big pension fund loan sixty, four, million dollars. An dormant at the time Chicago, wasn't getting a part of that they there kickback came through Allen Dorfman insuring the four casinos eleanor from supply. The insurance is is it'll be s insurance companies supply the insurance for all casinos. So. That was that was how Chicago got. Their got their kickback from it but they ended up getting into what Angela Leonardo ended up. He was he became the boss in Cleveland this time. White Liquor Bali Yeah Raleigh was the Boston and this this woman when when the? Danny Green was go rhino. Angelo the Kinda. Got It by default I don't think he really wanted to be the boss and he kinda got by default. But when he got to be the boss already, we're working some kind of narcotics investigation on somebody and they put it on him. And he got a huge amount of time and he can do it, and so we got the boss of the Cleveland Mafia Cleveland Cleveland I don't even know what they call it. The partner shepherd the combination maybe you're that's Detroit is not the outfit and I can't remember what they call it and Cleveland everybody's got I I. Don't remember what they call Cleveland Yeah. Buffalo's the arm and. Arm Patriots or the office. So they got they. Put Him. In. Jail. For a long time he ended up testifying about all this remember exactly what he said but I believe he said that they got in an argument I. Know there was an argument in Chicago called everybody up to have a meet Kansas City and MILWAUKEE AND CLEVELAND. What came out of that, Cam? Yeah. They they call them into SORTA mediate the dispute and Chicago said Yeah we'll. We'll settle it for twenty five percent. So then they actress Chicago stepped in. Everybody then split it and got a quarter. So Cleveland Milwaukee Kansas they were splitting it sort of thirty, thirty percent. Each way you know and they were arguing over I guess at three point three percent on this on the back end for one equal up the math I guess percentages weren't working Chicago stepped in said, we'll. We'll make an even quarter each way after Chicago stepped in and mediated the dispute everybody ended up with a quarter and that's how Chicago got into the skin and they were making the insurance profits off valid Dorfman's. Ensuring the casinos. And you see a lot of back and forth this time Mace Rochman and. Angela Leonardo going to Chicago pretty often and a lot of. As you've as you've mentioned in your shows throughout the as you have a lot of travel back and forth in Chicago and Kansas City, there was a lot of activity during this time with with beg enforce implying dealing with the different teamsters issues and the skin because they had to transfer that money may shraga was usually the guy who did it during this time Hoffa is. He's he's gotten out of jail. Thanks to the big donation. He's not supposed to get involved in. Politics or rather in the politics of the Union are in the union, but he's really working to get his get back into that union at the time I. Mean He's where he's working like, hell he's going all over the country. He's got. You know he's talking to these Bob guys trying to get their support I think they probably see him a as a loose cannon because they got Frank Fitzsimmons and he's just doing whatever they want and they've got press her and they've got Roy Williams and they've got. The frank rainy up in. MILWAUKEE. Is they pretty well own it now back east toady pro is in jail he's getting back out about this time. So and and the New York families you know he's owned by them and he would be their representatives and they're not really doing bob with the teamsters at the time. Is Brothers filling in for him. He's just not as strong as Tony was, but you still got a provenzano just not not the stronger one. You know. So you've still got. New York is controlling through through a provenzano brothers, just not the strong one. And Hoffa he definitely will have the ill have the ear of the rank and file rank and file whatever Hoffa once and he's going around trying to get these guys on board to try to get him back in. Now he's got to. He's got to get worked with the government to to get that that prohibition overturn it can get the teamsters to agree then I, think the government will government would agree to don't you imagine. I think yeah, he thought if he could win an election, the government would almost have to sort of let him back in. They don't want to anger all those rank and file teamsters by because they know what's going to happen if he can win an office with the teamsters and then they said folks, I guys I'd like to help you but the. Government won't let me. So what did we do now and you know they got they get such a heavy heavy political power that there were enough non mobbed up teamsters people on the board was was pretty heavily mobbed up but there were enough independent guys who maybe could could've voted their own way you know Atlanta Georgia and places like that had who Just by location, we're not necessarily in the mob, and so I think Jimmy was making a lot of inroads to guys like that who who were not connected to to organized crime. And that was his plan. What else did Jimmy do during this time with in regards to organized crime and kind of showing his independence. This is when he reach out the Provenzano and we know that he did that but he was he would go on television. You saw a little bit of this in the in the Irishman this clips like this true. He's going on TV talking about fits is always playing golf and he's calling news conferences. He's doing a lot of talk shows talk about how the teamsters are getting. So corrupt, he's hinting around that. There is corruption in the teamsters he's not coming out and saying mafia, but he's saying he's starting to work himself up and he's getting louder and louder. We've seen on the Dick Cabinets show and he's not coming out and saying much about the teamsters. But just his presence is making people worry he's he's as he becomes more public figure with the things that he knows I. think that is worrisome to people as he makes himself more of a public figure. And I know that it was a violation of prison rules. Who Secure outside employment. In the prison. while. We had quite a goal around and the end result was when we left the day, the captain and the assistant said, well, be careful what you're doing because I refused to recognize the fact that I could not help. People who couldn't help themselves. Need like that reform expect other things I'm sorry to cut you will get a message out. The teamsters. Against homosexuals. Discriminate against anybody. and. We have no discrimination in the teamsters union to my knowledge. Know I read today's Wall Street Journal I know what it said. Speed Journal today. through the Justice Department made an announcement that they're going to go in the court against the. Sixteen thousand employers, and over six hundred unions, the teamsters union because seniority provisions in our contract on classification, which would take hours to talk about it. We don't have even minutes at this end then he'll show and call press conference outside the team building saying Oh Frank Fitzsimmons is not here he's playing golf and he makes he talks to his lawyer Frank Redondo and tries to speak with sort of guys Carlos Marcello and traffic onto asking if maybe they could talk to some of the more traditional losses, the guys back east and up North but those public appearances or what really start making people nervous. That's where the public really starts looking Jimmy Hoffa and wondering why is this guy that we all know is a union leader why is he on the outside and why is he harping on on how the leadership now is no good and that's really what is driving a lot of mobsters crazy. Yeah. I can only imagine that when he reaches out to a traffic content, Marcello that they really are guests it up and take notice then and he's not getting along with. Proven Zano he's trying to he's tried to pat set up but you know he's still he's a loose cannon. I think as far as they were all concerned, he was a loose cannon. Yes. No, he had too much power from the rank and file. They had fits who was there stooge and then the owned everybody else So they could not own nobody owned Jimmy Hoffa I don't think yeah I. Think you're right. They did not really own Jimmy off he decided they didn't want him they didn't own him. So I I could see why they would really be threatened by auto coming back and and as we all know. From, the Irishman and I don't really believe that Frank Sheeran is one that killed him. But I do believe that that the mob killed him and did someone. Did something with his body where he would never ever be found because they knew would be a huge huge public relations nightmare if they got caught in that one. Absolutely. Another reason why I don't think they would bring some guy like Frank Sheridan there. This taken the oath man. Want some. Big Old, drunken Irishman become. It'd be part of that. That's a fair point. Office is dialogue escalating and he's you do see a lot of this back and and he starts having his people in the teamsters actually make threats when he really gets up to talk about if he he's going to have his people call in all of the pension loans that are in arrears, and if they don't have the money to pay them off this really did Anthony commented element in the teamsters, but it really was it really was a threat and then. He's he's going to call in all the loans in whatever can't be paid. The teamsters are going to take ownership of the casinos that would really draw a lot of attention. We also know at this time Hoffa was meeting with guy named Charles Allen who was tight with who did know frank. Sheeran and he had given over the of years several thousand dollars thirty, three, thousand dollars and he wanted him to kill Bill Presser and frank. fitzsimmons there were three other guys. Chucky Ellen did did testify to this? He couldn't remember who the other guys where he showed them pictures and then. All Off on July tenth thousand nine hundred seventy five. Richard Fitzsimmons who was a Frank Sun and frank were inside bar and they were walking out and Richard's car blew up which was. Now. There's some theories on this that it may be Jimmy had something to do with it. Maybe he didn't, and maybe it was one of those mobs plans where we'll make him look we'll blow up this car because that will that will be the final nail in his coffin if the president of the teamsters car blows up, then the mob, then the mafia will know the Jimmy's totally out of out of out of control. So. That was July tenth throughout this whole time. Jimmy's really paranoid because whether he blew up fits his car or whether he realized that that was the message being sent. If Jimmy didn't blow up his car, then he knows that they're just setting him up July thirtieth nineteen, seventy five he got into Tony Jacklin sons, red mercury at the Marcus Red Fox, and that was it and that was that was Tony Jacklin Sons Red Mercury? As I understand, I could be wrong. People people will probably pointed out but yeah I I think that was the case but the Jackal Onis were supposed to be setting up a sit down with their cousin by marriage. Tony Provenzano in Detroit and Jimmy want to try and work this out. Maybe please cases it. He didn't he. Actually didn't blow up as car, but he wanted that local five sixty in New Jersey to support him. He really wanted to try and get take the presidency back and whether it's out of desperation or stupidity or whatever whoever was in that car he got in. Despite his paranoia and he drove off to glory during this time, there's GonNa interesting little side story you dug up this Eugene. BOFFA. Who was? A was really under he was owned by Russell Bufalino. In. Yellow. So wh what was that story there? Bob owned a staffing agency and he got around the master freight agreement. He would. He would go to the local teamsters president and say, look man here's I'll give you. I'll give you a brand new Lincoln. You see them talking about that in the in the Frank Sheeran movie Irishman Yeah, and he's so we give them a car, give them some money whatever and then needs a, but here's what I WANNA do I want to pay your guys less than the master freight agreement they'd say okay. So we go to the businesses gyms trucking and say look I can. If you pay me, I can supply you a bunch of truckers for. Seventy five percent of what you're currently paying them I said okay. So gyms trucking would fire all their current drivers. Eugene will the same day Eugene, Boffa would hire all Jim's old truckers and have them sign a new contract that was paying them seventy five percent of what the master freight agreement was and they'd go complained to their local chairman who would say well, no, it's okay because deprived contract and Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah whatever bs and so Eugene Boffa was going around the country doing this and he was giving cars to all these use union officials as a as a bribe to get around the master freight agreement basically screw these these truckers than he would get kickbacks from the businesses for saving them money on their labor costs and he could guarantee. That there would be no. Strikes or anything because he he ran the drivers if anybody wanted to strike then part of the stipulation was he would just fire them. So there wouldn't be any. I mean it was terrible thing that he was doing. But one of the one of the things very interesting is the car that that both Lino and Frank Sheeran drove to Detroit for the wedding. was. It was. It was registered to this Eugene Boffa and in addition. Eugene Botha's wife had made a thirty thousand dollar loan to salvage Julio's wife. Obviously was the number one suspect in the disappearance of Hoffa and Boffa continue this on. He was eventually sentenced to a long time in prison as was frank. Who did this to his own to his own union constituency he was. That car he got from Eugene Buffet in the movie he did it because he sold out a bunch of his own union employees took a kickback from Boffa and violated the master freight agreement. So he can screw a bunch of his teamsters and let them work for less money than what they were. The Bob was getting a little piece of every one of those contracts. He was Russell Buff Lena's guy you know that Hoffa didn't would not allow that to continue that. You'll that goose laying those golden eggs for somebody else wouldn I'm not saying that he wouldn't do it himself maybe but I I like to think lake not but he sure was going to kill that golden goose off and in every other golden goose at the mob hat going so I, they had all kinds of reasons to kill off Jimmy. HOFFA didn't they? Yeah. Oh, absolutely. So Jimmy Disappears. and. Frank Fitzsimmons then becomes the pretty well permanent for the president for life of the International Brotherhood of teams. Like there was no way he was gave her get I get out of there as long as he was alive, the bombing war that continued in in Cleveland a lot of people didn't realize John. Nardi. Was the leader of the Cleveland local for ten. Close to the pressures and that's what the Cleveland War was basically about is is like a bullies men and John Nardi were fighting for control of that teamsters local for ten John Nardi eventually lost and lick fully controlled for ten while the pressures controlled their local when Bill Presser was getting old and he eventually retired Jackie Presser. His son would take over and was almost like a Mafia thing where he passed the mantle of his teamsters leadership onto his son. It was sanctioned by the nation's Mafias but he had he had support from Kansas City. They had to get support from Kansas. City and Nick Chevelle agreed With Mace Rochman and they got the Kansas City vote for. Jackie Presser to take over bill pressures role, and this is an order for this to happen. He had to get mafia support from around the country in order for Jackie president to be put onto the teamsters board. So that was that's another example of how that happens is the mob approves somebody to be put on the board. The board will eventually like the president and all this time he was FBI top echelon informant. Absolutely and then he actually he's doing what he was doing some much no-show Jarno he created some some fake. Locals it within the teamsters that we're getting teamsters money and and and earned money and the FBI. Let him do it. He claims and actually they ended up I think charged a couple agents being involved with that I, think they I think it it proved out that they didn't really know that he was doing that but that's how his name came out of the top echelon informant that during that time. Yeah. Yes. So he's working with the FBI in one hand and the Justice Department is covering is coming after him on on the other hand and he's he's conning the FBI, the Justice Department, and the Mafia at the same time. Jackie. Damned interesting character he was he was really walking a hell of a tight rope. He was so close to the Mafia and he was really back and forth with the F.. I don't know of any any other person who's done exactly what the the damage. Jackie. Presser is done to the Mafia but. Just meeting with these guys, the front lines and back and forth with the FBI. I think he kind of got off on the on the thrill of it. I think those guys do I'm sure lefty Rosenthal did he thought he was smarter than everybody? Yeah. There was some rebellion started in the ranks among the dodgers they came up with that. Thank pride that other guy and I can't remember his name he started a magazine called drive and and. He started exposing. He was one of the early ones that explodes the sweetheart deal with Allen Glick in the sixty, two million dollar loan for to build to buy those casinos and and and then don't tell me about this pride. Pride was. The Professional Drivers Council Westwood Prod was professional drivers they they started up during the during the seventies a lot of these reform groups there were there were a lot of members who were unhappy and you see a lot of these groups Anthony Three Fingers Cast Leo in New Jersey was actually got caught up in a bit of a Reform Movement maybe incidentally. But when he disappeared that really his son eventually took over and there was a really big reform election in the wake of Anthony Castellino's murder. became a major now they they lost and there were these these groups really didn't have much a chance because the the corruption was so entrenched the teamsters for a Democratic Union and prod they really were running against for for leadership for presidencies of these teamsters and guys like Jackie Presser in Cleveland and and I'm not sure about Kansas City but there was a real push Cleveland was was really fighting for major reform and these guys are just pushed. Down Jackie press was hiring thugs to fight them off just like in the thirties I mean there are beaten the hell out of these guys and it's really in the seventies when this corruption is blowing up and I guess Jimmy in the wake of Jimmy Hoffa's death that a lot of these guys are tired of seeing what's going on in knowing that their money is is being misappropriated. They are trying to stand up for themselves and they're just facing this. This wave after wave of corruption and violence, and it was really the seventies was a bad time for for the they all bad times for the teamsters but there was a lot of a lot of people trying to stand up to them and they just didn't couldn't get any real traction. So during that time that the Labor Department really starts paid a lot more attention to our they assigned of one investigator to the strikeforce here in Kansas City and and. That was his job was to work with his strikeforce attorneys trying to you know the FBI be working on these individual mobsters but this guy was taken all the union information and looking at union records and and do a lot of work on just on the Union without even thinking about the mobsters to see what was going on and try to put them together and eventually they'll. They'll put it all together. I'll take him several years to do that. Take the teamsters away from. All the corrupt influences and cap reform make them have new elections? You know these mob guys just got too greedy I think. Everybody got too greedy. Yeah. Tony Robbins Zano during this time he was indicted for. Setting up at two point, three, million dollar loan from the Another account of the UTICA teachers benefit pension fund not even from the The big pension fund this was from a benefit fund. There's just kind of thing was going on at the local level you got. Tony Provenzano gotten out of prison in the early seventies, and here he is setting up A. Huge. Loan out in UTICA. Yeah and then he was indicted for that murder of three fingers Castellino. Yeah. That's right. So he ends up going to jail he didn't really ever come back out tony pro does then right brothers. He's he's trying to run the unions, but he's not really that whippy his mind standing. So Sami pro over of that local that local five sixty. But yeah, a couple years out of prison Tony Provenzano. Two point three, million dollar loan from UTICA and well, he's well, he's being indicted for that. Nine hundred, seventy six, he's indicted for conspiracy to murder Kesse Leo. Leo and Keio. KOONING's Berg were were responsible for that. You don't and the teamsters you mentioned about that. It was kind of interesting that setting up those contract companies to then take over the all the local drivers. So they could just nix the as and where we're doing away with all union drivers and we're GONNA hire this other company to do that, and then they have a better a better contract with those people. You know I know in the railroad industry they've been doing that for a long time they'll my son I got a job with the burners and northern actually was with Santa Fe and ups has done this too. I'm sure they just hire all non-eu used hire a company to do all the lifts at the. Motor yards for a while. Yeah, that's exactly right and so they and I got another friend who worked for a big at the shipping area of a big trucking May Big O. Hardware chain. and. They fired all their truckers and then the contractor came in and then he rehired him, they rehired them all if they if they wanted to, they didn't have to take him but they offered the job to rehire him. So. Like. In railroad decided they. They made a deal with the union and they were GONNA put Union people back in the hubs to do lift all the cans off and on. So then they have to they take the existing nonunion contractor employees and then interview them give them drug tests and then hire men as union employees so that They were kind of head that thanks. Now, all the legitimate companies are doing that I just had I know a guy that got fired from that or got laid off I. Guess He got Severance Package from that hardware company but they able they were replaced by nine union company that had contracts individual contracts with all the new drivers, the new dockworkers and everything. So that's that's become legitimized. Now that's a that's a damn good point. That's you know that's that's what I do for a living and that's and that's exactly you're. You're exactly right and it's totally legitimate now back then union this poor Ronnie Reagan busted all the unions. Busted the start off with the air traffic controllers unions, but but it's just all changed so much and and now we come along a lot of deregulation. A section here about when Jimmy Carter was elected, what was that? What was the dealer with the that when it starts getting deregulated? Yeah, Carter deregulated the trucking bill and this is where you start seeing the the them get really involved in the politics with the Senator Howard cannon. Carter. said he was going to he sported deregulation of the trucking industry. So shippers could set their own prices that would give more power to the shippers to you know they could. They could set prices whatever they want, and really the teamsters would would lose out and they did lose out it really affects competition more and more more and more shippers went out of business there as opposed to across the board pricing. So the mob started digging really deep for a lot of political connections to try and stop this bill and that was how they kind of edition. That's where the pension you get. You get Palmiero in to oversee the pension, the government came in and. Put the Victor Pulmonary Company in charge of the pension, basically closing the bank and the mob gets desperate there to reopen it. So. They the teamsters owns a five and a half Acre piece of property in Nevada, and it's right next to a really expensive gated club. And sort of a gated community and Senator Howard. Cannon owns property in that and they're trying to sell this land to be developed and the residents in this gated community are really nervous. They don't want a bunch of condos or things being built on this land. They think that that'll devalue their homes in. It'll be loud and a lot of just WANNA bunch of apartments and condos built there. They make inroads Roy Williams Eleanor may get ray regia the senator cannon say listen he puts in a bid for this land million four and Palmiero turns, down. because. There's already bid on it for a million six. Well, the bid that's already on its from Allen Glick and they get to drop his bid cannon still has this million forbid Roy Lee Williams and Fitz try it. They're they're working hard to get Palmiero to accept the senators million four and Lombardo, and Chevelle Rozan behind the scenes they're pulling or pulling the strings on this. Deal with the senator and they're trying to you know there's some some attempted bribes to get him to make the deal. Pulmonary wants a million six even with everybody leaning hard on their people and they didn't have control of the pension. You've got Roy Williams on these these wiretaps everyday they're they're pushing and pushing this Roy. Williams starts getting a lot of pressure from chevelle about. This pension L. endorphins throwing a fit about they. Nobody's doing anything to help me and Lombardo in the office a lot of days and they're winding in bitching and complaining about the pension and eventually somebody else comes in and buys this land for a million six and so Kannan votes against them in trucking deregulation go through if they had just come up. With all these millionaire mobsters at just come up with two hundred thousand dollars and somehow funneled it to senator cannons bid. He could have gotten the land he would have supported the their direct and and probably some other people and they could have protected deregulation but because they were so goddamn greedy and they don't spend money, they just take other people's money. He he was stuck in a million four pulmonary one wanted a million six. They got a million six when they did the deregulation. That really changed the whole truck haul trucking industry. Didn't it put a lot of truckers out of business bazaar is already filled with all these bad loans anyhow. Small. Local firms at the the mobs owned went out of business. So they sort of lost that at that source of revenue does about this time? Let's see that Fitzsimmons in a huge amount of trouble I. think he died during this. Then you have a heart attack or something during this time he had lung cancer and I can't remember we had a heart attack but I know we had long I during this time, and that's when Roy Williams than gets put forward by Kansas City to be the new teamsters president. He's you know he's kind of last man standing presser is I don't know if he's been exposed, but he's in a lot of trouble with that for former knows fake unions down in Cleveland and he may begin exposed during this time he certainly has. Been held as a joint defendant was some FBI. For a short period of time during this time, and he didn't have the pole in the sort of the gravitas. of Roy Lee Williams Roy had been in it for much longer. You know in sort of was a known commodity which about him before he he not only he was like. Half only wasn't quite as charismatic, but he he was at former teamster he was a truck driver himself. So he had a lot of four with the rank and file as well as the with politicians in. Eight brushed elbows with politicians. I've talk to kids of some local politicians and they talk about going out to Roy, Williams farm of for holidays for picnics and things like this. He was big on entertaining no local politicians out there at his farm. and. He was you know an think I mentioned this story before he made big donations or the teamsters local teamsters did to a a big home for disabled people next his Mafia friends got some kickback from that. But but he was really active active politically and and so he would he was the you know the really the only choice they had at the time if they want to keep somebody they own then during that time, that's when we're working like crazy here in Kansas City to. To uncovered the scam and when they find the notes from Tuffy, Luna The underboss there's fifteen hundred dollars a month to rancher and when they finally got Roy. Williams and they turned him he was the rancher and he was getting fifteen hundred dollars a month, and that was just out of the Tropicana scam that one. Now the star does I don't know what he got out of that. But but that was out of the Tropicana scam because if you remember which confuses everybody, there's two separate streams a scam one was the stardust and those other three casinos that. Allen Glick, but in the Arctic Corporation, the the Fremont, the Hacienda in the marina that was more like a hundred, thousand, one, hundred, fifty, thousand dollars a month, and that was being divided up for ways in Tropicana was just going strictly to Kansas City. Kansas City next Avella was kick it a little bit. I. Hope just because he was iota and he was giving his divided up among his guys in Kansas City and Roy Williams got fifteen hundred dollars every month from that. But I don't. We don't know what he got out of the Stardust. He was getting a ton out that stardust to he had to because he was part of that that Oh low sixty, two, million dollar loan to Glick. Going back and forth to a Palma Boys Social Club but Tony Salerno genevieve's to make sure she the sure that everybody was was going to support. Roy Williams is you get a lot of the back and forth and. So they got fat Tony Blair. No, and he said if Chicago's good with him, he's good with him a lot of that back and forth with up and Tony. Salerno I must say Roy Williams. he was he's supposed to dominate Jackie Presser as a director of the central states conference, and then Allen Dorfman says Chicago hates presser, and if he got the job, they're going to have him killed. Yeah. They thought he was a they thought he was Iraq. It helped him all along with that Senator Cannon Investigation I, remember that. Throat on that that was presser but I mean I, think it's interesting. You See Fat Tony Salerno interacting with with joy up during this time about the teamsters who's going to be in charge it's just so damned interesting to me, but I'm sorry Roy Williams gets the presidency and Jackie Presser never gets the never gets nominated for that. Old Position as the president of the Central Conference Director of the Central Conference Roy Williams last very long because they've already made this pay soon. And Dorfman in embargo for attempted bribery of senator candid. I guess if you don't get the bribe to them to get a conversation about it, they got him for tempted bribery and I get a ton of time in prison and that by then Williams has got cancer. and. He does not want to die in jail I guess because he agrees to testify in I. I don't know if you've ever seen those you remember those but he testifies but he testifies he's he's got one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel he's got oxygen. He's in a wheelchair and he's voices week and but I know bill ouseley debrief demon and learned a lot of things just kind of intelligence kinda things at. Riley. Williams how this is all work for years and years when when interesting thing built only about that he got or Williams was. If you remember I know we've talked about this when lefty Rosenthal brought Allen Glick back to have knicks scary. Because, he wasn't Latin left do everything that left. He thought he ought to be able to do. And he convinced to come back to Kansas City and he met with next Bala next valid put him in a hotel room and next day back in the shadows and they took a a light was the what do you call that of stand up light in the room and put it shined directly in his eyes and Knicks, Avella standard outside the outside of the cone of light and start threatened them and you. Know I. If it was up to me, you wouldn't leave this hotel room alive and you've got gotta take care of this. You owe me a million dollars a million and a half and and Glick said well, I don't know how I'm ever going to pay that back and he's well, you've got a man right here lefty Rosenthal will take care of that. You just let him take care of that and we'll be fine. So, Roy Williams tells the story to Housley. That, when he was a young younger teamster here in Kansas City, and that's when Nick came up with this plan to get five dollars from every local teamster for some kind of a supposedly health insurance flannel, extra health insurance plan, and it really was an Williams said, well, you know I just be screwing my guys over they get nothing for their five dollars a month and next Avella then had picked up and brought to barn somewhere and footage shine the light. And his eyes is lacking the old school B.'s movies out of the fifty shine the light in his eyes and threatened him and threaten these children and threatened to kill him and so they had that plan going for a little while it didn't last very long. We just kind of a little little extra piece action that Knicks Avella figured out how to scam out of the teamsters and it didn't really last long. But that's that was interesting you know that Nick. Same thing twenty or thirty years later elwyn negotiating. Is that what eventually brought down was the was Roy Williams testified because I. know he was out of prison when he died but he was he was well to go back. All part of the scamming investigation. Say it's really hard for people explained they. About Savannah wasn't really part of the the bribery attempt. That Williams went down but he was talking about everything and same time they gathered all this information on all the the skimming efforts. And they're bringing that down. And they've got couples storytellers in there and and Joe. Gosto was going to be one of them and he had face to face meetings and they've got a wiretap. On audio of those face to face meetings, him telling Nick Him and Carl Thomas Helen Tell Nick how they're gonNA skim from the start from the Tropicana Casino and him giving directions in what to do. So they've got nick on the Casino Scam and would have him on this but. But he dies before they actually get. Back to Jackie, presser who has been working with the mob but also informed to the FBI. The an article came out in Cleveland Plains drifter saying that Jackie was an informer and they printed on the front page and Mace Rochman Calls Up Tony. Salerno was saying you know we need to get this. We need to get this taken care of it's GonNa you know this you know they didn't know and inject press it. Oh, this is bs so Gets Salerno calling up his attorney and Same Time Donald. Trump's attorney Roy Cohn. Who Roy Coun- reached out to people he knew in Cleveland. and. The paper printed a retraction and an apology. This is the mob reach out to a Cleveland newspaper, Tony Salerno Mail, the copy of the retraction and the apology to I up in Chicago because he knew that Chicago didn't like him. So this is another. Tony slain are reaching out a lot of people's able Tony. Slur. When the boss but what Tony Slain I was was he maintain those relationships so it wasn't like he was a nobody he had relationships with people all over the country that. They didn't have. So he wasn't important figure whatever you WANNA say about him. He was a necessary member of the genovise family and he. Whether. He was the one point the fingers he was still the guy who was doing the majority of the work. So let me see if I got this right the I've never heard this story before the the the main newspaper in Cleveland the plains drifter. GETS information that. Jackie? PRESSER IS A. Top echelon informant for the FBI and they print story about it. And we talked about that earlier how that was coming out because he had this case in and they tried to charge these F. B. is it's with it, and so they ended up saying, okay, dude you know he was trying to drag them into it and I don't think they really ended. They were just maybe asleep at the switch, but there were making any money off of it, and so they threw him the wolves basically and and probably slipped the information to the newspaper. And then. Wrong with desert really want this information now for him to then figure out trying to figure out how to get this fix is he's is damaging his relationship with. He reaches out to Tony Salerno and Cleveland. Always had these closer connections with a New York that's ago he reaches out to Tony Salerno who would then Uses his lawyer Roy Cohen Trump's lawyer. Of all people. Exactly he knows somebody somehow he can pull a string at the Cleveland newspaper to get a retraction brandon and then they can use that to send it. To say look you know he's not really a snitch that's crazy I mean that's way to our way Dominican. That's and that's in the eighties. That's the mob in the. Late seventies, early eighties that's just insane under their peak now now, fat Tony Learn Hill end up slowly but surely grind old and decaying and and going into senility in the Penitentiary Down Springfield with my friends Steve, say John used to sit with him and some other guys a lot. So I asked him by said, well, you know what the talk is it he didn't really talk. Hardly anything. It's like he always had his guard stuck in his mouth and he didn't hardly ever talked to anybody and like when lefty Ribero was there and who who was responsible for you know bring Joe. pistone in as much as sonny black what's and and he said I said he'd never even in every mark they gave knowledge left he but he did let him sit with him. So. Cleveland's pushing hard for presser to be President Chevelle that favor because Cleveland supported Williams. So May Rochman and Angelo Leonardo or back and forth to Chicago and they're talking to Jackie cerrone in Iowa they still don't like presser. Rochman Leonardo go to New York see Salerno and he says, all right. I'll call guys in Chicago and I'll talk to them and that's What he's alcohol them guys and you probably should dim. Yeah. Link a bully goes to prison in eighty two. That's when Leonardo takes over GAGO opinions. Sort of loses value because Allen Dorfman shot eighty-three. So this is where they kind of there's sort of that great turnover of power when they finally lose the teamsters altogether and it transfers back to Tony Salerno. Tony Salerno then has as the teams has become his with. The remnants of the Provenzano's still on the. Teams Board and you've got Jackie Presser is still I think the President Jackie Presser is working to straighten up the teamsters whether you can believe it or not. He is trying to take power away from the mob. He wanted central leadership to support the locals. You didn't think the locals should just support central tint the center leadership. So he supports Ronald Reagan if you could believe that, I, think he could read the tea leaves new Reagan's going to win anyway. So he thought well, we'll get some some help and so that he he was tight with Ronald Reagan but. When things really changed chevelle died on bail. Williams testimony bunch of things. As you talked about Liangelo, Leonardo became a government witness in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, three that wiped out the Cleveland mob Patriarca died in eighty four. Jerry Angelo is still controlling guy named William McCarthy and eighty three it came out that. President wasn't informant, and so we also know that Jackie cerrone. Jackie drone flew to New York in one thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, three to meet with genovese leadership I mean he was more or less going to say I told you. So which ended up being a stupid thing because Jackie heard about this meeting from another teamster and he immediately goes to the FBI. Hey, Jackie thrown from Chicago was just was just in New York meeting with Tony Salerno and all the upper ranks of the genovese crime family. So Jackie would die of cancer in eighty, six William McCarthy from from. Boston would become president but Jackie Presser FBI filed drew so much federal attention to the corruption in the teamsters and the Mafia and everything that the Justice Department stepped in in one thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, six when McCarthy was president and they formed case against the teamsters board part of that Rico cases we will strip all your positions, your six figure salaries and your multimillion dollar pensions. Or you can let us mediate for a few years and we are going to to determine the rules of this union. So the board signed agreements on election reform. So ninety one when the current officials jobs, all expired federally pointed election officials. Oversaw the first general election of the teamsters. So the board the mob would no longer control the president of the teamsters and the rank and file would hold secret democratic elections and the mob. They still own a few locals, but they would no longer control the executive board of the teamsters. Out Yeah and it's never been they never got back and of course, the teamsters has changed so much after. trucking deregulation has continue to change the trucking industry that and there are so many. Drivers, and and it just it's so many owner operators out. And roads started hauling more and more with the development of intermodal freight that the debate over the road trucking companies just are are mirror shadow of their former selves. I, my Saturday bested some money and yellow freight which had kind of interesting yellow freight you became. yellow wire see Yellow Roadway Corporation I think merged with roadways but I invested a couple thousand dollars in their stock because recounted, they were depressed figura yellow freight they've been around for years. And are yellow they called it by them but I just lost. Yep It all just disappeared would do whatever changes that they went through and and they're still out there is why are see believe but you know it's just they just don't do what they did. None of those big trucking companies did all those owner operators than the price of diesel went up way way up and they weren't making any money it's it's. It's still a tough way to make a living is over the road truck driver and they used to be a pretty good job too. Yeah. Now it's it's it's much harder and the you know the the teams don't have near the power they used to, and so it's and the the after the McClellan it really did generate the idea that a lot of unions because there were there are multiple unions part of that McClellan and I think the idea of unions and corruption has just become almost endemic to a lot of people and and obviously union people know the value of but I think a lot of states that don't have unions don't really understand why they're important and just see them as avenues of corruption. Just seemed like. Life has changed Dislike Union Syrup on the past. I don't know. All Right Cam I think we've done the teamsters here teamsters them off. Yeah. Absolutely. All Right Cam I'll talk to you later. Bye. We'll talk at you. If you're a veteran, you believe you have problems might be from PTSD that's connected your service time call your local Vet Center local Va hospital in your area, or there's a national hotline, one, eight, hundred, seven, three, eight, five, five, and press one. If you're a vet, you can go to www dot p. t. s. d. v. a. Dot Gov, and this set contains a lot of interesting information a lot of good resources when the Cova Dover, we say the Covid nineteen viruses over there by getting back to work, you can hit me up for a cup of coffee or shot and a beer on my Mo- APP, gang? Wire. got my into movies out there brothers against brothers, the Sabella Spiro War, and gangland wire the kind of story behind the movie casinos story about the. Mob Worn Kansas City that led to the uncovering of the skimming information. Got Leaving Vegas. How FBI were depth in an mom domination of Las Vegas Casinos get the kindle version. You can link the I've linked the wiretaps actual audio from wiretaps do sections in the book. Good Evening Folks Using provided by our good friend and superfan from Portland Oregon Casey McBride Thanks Casey.

teamsters union Cleveland Kansas City Roy Lee Williams Jimmy Hoffa Allen Glick Union Chicago Jimmy Allen Dorfman Mafia Frank Fitzsimmons FBI Jackie Presser FBI golf knicks Fitz Fitzsimmons Tony Las Vegas
New Hampshire and Trouble at Justice with Dana Milbank

Words Matter

47:06 min | 1 year ago

New Hampshire and Trouble at Justice with Dana Milbank

"Welcome to words matter with Katie. Barlow and Joe Lockhart welcome to words matter. I'm Katie Barlow. Our goal is to promote objective reality as a wise man once said everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Not Their own facts. Words have power and words have consequences. Our guest today is an award-winning journalist. Bestselling author and a nationally syndicated columnist for the Washington Post. Dana millbank is author of three books on politics and has covered politics for the post since two thousand before that Dana was a senior editor at the new republic and before that a reporter for the Wall Street Journal Dana Millbank. Welcome to words matter. It is my pleasure to be here. What it doesn't say in there is when I was. I cut my teeth in this business. I was duelling with Joe Lockhart. That's good to know well. Welcome back to the dual looking. Continue it here. Please go ahead. Yeah there's there's there's a reason that Dan I don't sit in the same room together because it was such a ferociously ugly fight which Since he since he owned the news anchor. I used to give in all the time. Only if only yeah Tuesday night of last week. We had their New Hampshire primary and then some very odd things coming out of the Department of Justice as a columnist and as someone who sits in editorial meetings from time to time. I'm sure tell me about how you looked at the split screen and tried to figure out what the meaning was. What was more important? Was the stone stuff more impactful than what was going on in New Hampshire. Was the newsroom like that night. Well it's that's an interesting question. The newsroom for these last three years has been unlike any time before it just sends any one of these stories that we see in a day or heck an hour would have been the sort of thing that would dominate for a week a month a year. But they're just Coming so furiously. What has happened so far. Is I with impeachment and just sort of trump's General antics have basically kept the spotlight off of the Democratic primary. And I think that's probably a good thing without For the Democrats without Trump training his fire on whichever one he wants to be training and on so in a way It allowed it to go on under the radar so ultimately the the the more important story. I think is. What are the Democrats going to do? Because it's clear that impeachment is not an option to stop this madness and it's clear that the madness is going to continue. Unabated indeed intensified now that The president has been acquitted. So the you know the the the latest outrageous justice while maybe it was ten percent more outrageous than the ordinary outrages Was met with the Usual Shrug by Republicans on Capitol Hill. So it'll just become yet another norm broken and shattered so really. The big picture is are the Democrats GonNa come up with an answer an antidote that they can run against him. Or are they going to self destruct? So I think the really big story is what happened in Hampshire so staying in the newsroom. I'm I'm just curious. You've got over in one corner and this isn't actually how it works but for the purposes of this question you've got Glenn Kessler sort of fact checking the president you've got the White House reporters trying to say here's what the president is doing and sang and at least trying to provide some information of what's going on there whether they think it's true or not what he's doing or saying and then you've got people like you whose job it is to take a step back and try to figure out what it all means with a dose of. Your own opinion. How does that all come together? And has trump figured something out here? That sort of has outfox traditional journalism. Well those are two different things but I think the the answer to the second part. He's he's definitely outfox traditional journalism. I mean that. Was We outfox ourselves? I mean this was coming. This was building for some time with all the Fragmentation I with Cable News then with the social media so we are or even before trump we were in an atmosphere where everybody was going to get their news from somebody who would Confirm their bias so that was already happening and trump just left into that An exploited and he really has been able to create this parallel universe of alternative facts. I've noticed even using alternative facts to fight against the corona virus is the corona virus. Might respond to his alternative facts and go away. Because he says it's going to go away. Did he really mix it up with Mexican beer? And the wall I. Joe WOULDN'T SURPRISE. Yeah but that was All primed and ready for a trump to exploit. We're going about doing our business the way we always had in the Washington Post building. You've got the news departments on the seventh floor. You've got editorial on the eighth floor. I mean we know each other and we talk but we go about doing our own things for us. It's business as usual It doesn't really work. I mean it works in a sense lots and lots of people are reading it but trump does a is pretty able to Discredit in the eyes of his loyal followers. Whatever it is the Washington Post is saying or the New York Times or or anybody else. Ten years ago I was writing a column that would be read by people on the left and on the right. I don't really feel that I've changed But it's basically only people on the left will read it now except for a small number of people who sort of read it just for the For the sake of an argument That's that's really changed. I don't think a lot of conservatives is certainly not a lot of trump people are reading the Washington Post at all. Whether it's Mike Column or it's George will or Mark Thiessen or it's it's the new section and is that change the way you think about your job but the subjects you opine on and right on will it. It's hard to say I mean. Trump has changed the job for me in a way that I used to be you know. Try to pick on everybody a little bit. I you know occasionally pick on Joe Lockhart But it just become so lopsided now that one side has gone off the rails in his posing this enormous threat to our institutions into note democracy. So it feels a little bit sort of silly to turn around and pick on the Democrats who really don't seem to have any power to to get anything done at all so Is is that has changed and just the you know the sheer volume of nuttiness outrage from trump has made me do that so yes. I suspect that it's Mike Coverage is certainly more My opinion piece of certainly more lopsided as a result of that I- it's less the audience then the notion that I'm looking for whatever's wrong. Whatever the outrages and I I think you can objectively say that one side in this Situation is causing the majority of the problems at this point. Let's talk about one of those norm busting institutions that At least stayed out of the news a little bit while impeachment was going on and then came roaring back. And that's the Department of Justice and how they're handling the sentencing of the president's longtime friend Roger Stone so we did a little bit of math And a little bit of research and you've covered eight Senate confirmed attorneys General and seven acting a. Jeez so with that context. How unusual is it for the DOJ and the Attorney General to get involved in the sentencing of close friend and associate of the president of the United States? Will let me count up all the previous times. This has happened. Give me a moment Ozero. There has never never happened. Look I you know. There's some amount of politicisation in every justice department has been going back to Talk Bobby Kennedy. And of course that's going to happen to some extent we saw that the ill conceived discussion between Bill Clinton and the Attorney General on the on the tarmac and Eric Holder Like to mix it up quite a bit and you know every Justice Department has been about defending a presidential power presidential perogatives and trying to cooperate as little as possible with Congress. But of course you know. Now we're in a whole other Order of magnitude in terms of what's going on here so it it really has become Something of a play thing. I was writing this week at the same time. This was going on with Roger Stone Reuters had this terrific piece saying the political appointees had overridden the career people who look at the grant situation and they've just awarded a new grant. They took taking it away from Catholic charities and they'd given it to Hookers for Jesus. Now I have nothing against hookers for Jesus but they don't say why but we can look and see that a couple of the groups. They gave it to. They were lower ranked Groups but they did have political connections or at least similar politics to president trump and the groups that were the awards were taken away from either head democratic ties or had been critical of trump's policies on say immigration so it's really a play thing In all aspects so now the inspector general didn't deliver a bar in the president quite what he wants. So now we've got This fellow up in Connecticut who's Surely going to deliver whatever it is the president's looking for and if he doesn't have to find somebody else to I think what we saw with the with the stone fiasco this week should cast doubt on whatever activity it is whether it's Reinvestigating the The muller pro or perhaps maybe they'll find a new way to go after Hillary Clinton's emails even that seems to have wound down now. It was reported that Attorney General Bar had accepted an invitation to testify before House judiciary on March thirty first. Do you think that will actually happen? I'm marked it in my calendar. Never do anything that far out right Who knows I mean? It's been a year Never seen anything quite like it and I remember in his confirmation hearing. I think I even wrote as like what seems like a reasonable guy and of course it was all a stick when he had his grandson there and it looked like he was just a establishment Conservative but of course it was nothing of the sort and he has a on an outrageous to air to Increase executive power at all costs so Anyway I'll I'll be there if if he ultimately shows but You covered him last week as well in a speech that he gave at the Willard Hotel in front of. I think it was a friendly audience. It was the Major County Sheriff's Association. You wrote about it in a column so tell us a little bit about what you saw and heard at the Willard Hotel and what he said. Well it was a I think for him a fairly standard speech and it was coming just before maybe two hours before the Justice Department turned around on the on the Roger Stone sentencing memo but seems to me that he has quite a binary view of the world. There are gushing on and on about The president and his his regard for God and for the rule of law Right before the the the stone intervention in fact he was extolling his interest in the rule of law and then he was he was talking about how we need to rewarding his friends. These sheriffs and saying we needed not monitor. You and we give you these grants. We're going to try to cut the states Out of these grants and give them directly to you. And then he goes into the enemy's the sanctuary cities and jurisdictions and the social justice. Da's he calls them rogue Da's who are not doing things quite the way he wants but he's talking about various ways to punish them taking away. Government grants a dozen or so lawsuits All kinds of subpoenas to force them to relinquish documents they have not been Required to furnish on Illegal immigrants essentially the way he views the department is a way to reward friends and punish enemies and if everybody has done that to some extent this is now seems to be the way. Justice is administered in the United States. Whether it's with The Mueller probe or whether it's a with Roger Stone or whether it's with hookers for Jesus or or the the major county shares. It just seems to be the normal way of doing business and the Justice Department punish enemies reward friends. You mentioned bars. What is presumed to be bars purpose in coming back? Because he's been attorney general before he's been a partner at Kirkland. He's made plenty of money. He's at the point in his career where he can just decide to do whatever he wants to do. And his purpose The way you articulated it is to kind of embolden and empower and infuse the office of the presidency as much as possible. Do you think that that is really his end goal here that he will sleep soundly at night having done that? When there's a Democrat in office I mean he's really just trying to infuse the office of the Presidency. It's hard to square that with the partisanship. And how they have been behaving on the right. There is a coherent school of thought among conservatives and it's been really since The Post Nixon reforms that the executive has been made to week. And we need to rebuild it. You remember all during the Bush years the talk about the unitary executive there's been this constant fight and the truth is there has been an erosion In executive power Right because of the previous abuses. I guess the irony here is In in taking on trump bar and taking him on as his project he is succeeded in expanding. He's basically made the president completely impermeable to any sort of congressional inquiry. I mean forget about getting these guys. They wouldn't even appear at a brief at a hearing on the corona virus. Like why do we need to talk to Congress you? We've proved that as completely unnecessary so he succeeded. The problem is it at the very time he succeeded. In making trump more powerful trump has been completely open about abusing the power which is why it was Taken away from presidents In the first place. So it's it's a question is has. He made it possible for trump to abuse his office in all kinds of ways that nobody could have conceived of before in which case the whole the project will eventually backfire after whatever. Calamity comes next so so Dana. Let's focus a little bit more on trump for a second. The simple had asked. This question is have you ever heard dumber comment? Then when Susan Collins said I think he's learned his lesson the broader question is. Where does this all end? One of my favorite things of Late last week was the story of Johnny Makati who was walked out by security as the president's personal assistant because he was a security risk is now being brought back to run the office of presidential personnel that vets every administration official including their background. Where does it end with trump? I mean there's there's very few norms left. He seems intent on redefining the presidential power and the presidential perogatives to commit corruption in a way. We haven't seen before well it the notion that they're going to be doing any sort of vetting whatsoever. I think is is An amusing one since the the way the president's been vetting nominees in the past is just throwing them out there into the public view and having Those of us in the media vet him and if somebody comes up with something bad he pulls them back before he's actually put them in the job In the first place so it the very notion of That there would be any attempt at vetting is is amusing immediately after the impeachment. And that ill advised comment by Collins and I think some of the other Republicans Lamar Alexander. It seemed to be saying it. Joni Ernst Rob Portman of course they're gonNA look Foolish because he behaves in a certain way and He's he's never gonNA stop in fact he's he's he's clearly been emboldened. I think the point at which it changes is when the economy isn't humming along so none of us knows when that point comes but That is the source of his power Among his forty percent now up to nearly half the country so as long as that continues Then he's going to have complete control over Republicans in Congress as soon as that goes. I think they'll be all too happy to To ditch him. Maybe you guys have a better crystal than I do. But it's it's is a good transition to looking at the the election the Democrats but let me push you a little bit on one thing. It's a journalism question you said they're nearly half and I think that's probably reference to the Gallup poll that showed him at forty nine percent since that's come out to other reputable national polls put him exactly a forty four percent where he started before the acquittal In my view and Gal came out was I think it's an hour liar because there was nothing that happened last week. That should have moved through the public the way it did but it did have an impact on the way everybody looked at them and you know it caused as a Democrat a serious case of bed wedding by Democrats And I don't think it actually happened in the country. I mean I don't think. The Gallup poll was reflective. How do we stop veering from? He's dead he's unbeatable. He's dead he's unbeatable and take a deep breath and just let this thing play out and this will lead us into pushy. A little bit on what you think is happening on the democratic side. I think you're right that he's neither dead nor nor unbeatable and and nothing has really changed. I mean we do see that the he has more support because The economy is strong. I mean you can only imagine where he'd be right now If we were deep in a recession and he was Doing favors for Roger Stone through the Justice Department and trying to secure his own re-election by With Rudy Giuliani in Ukraine and would be an entirely different story So in a where. Where does this leave us with with the Democrats? I think the thing. That's taking Democrats from euphoria to despair is less What's happening with the economy in particular poll number for the president then Who who the nominee is going to be and when we see Bernie Sanders ascendant. I think at least those of us who have been watching this for a while Feel that that could be quite catastrophic on the other hand if I could also see a scenario under which Bernie doesn't get the nomination and his supporters are disaffected as they were in two thousand sixteen and go after the the ultimate nominee so. It's really a question of can that drives between the euphoria and the despair on the democratic side is will they be able to unify behind anybody and I think if the answer to that is yes then they very likely will be able to beat the president even in a very strong economy. What's your takeaway from New Hampshire? Which often tells us nothing and often tells us everything and sometimes it's over by then. What's the millbank assessment? Well first of all before you I'll give you a millbank assessment but then you should bet on whatever the opposite is because you know I. I'm the guy who had to eat a an entire column of newsprint. Because I said the Republicans were were too good to let Donald trump become their nominee but Look I think In a sense Mike Bloomberg won both the cousin and the primary much better spot than he was before. I like to look at the balance between sort of the hard left and the relative centrists in the party. There's not that huge a gap between them. But if you look at that in New Hampshire It was. I don't recall the exact number. Look like for the moderates about fifty two percent and maybe for the The Socialist if you will between Warren and Sanders. I think it was maybe thirty. Four thirty five percent So that suggests where the where the balance is Within the Party so but look I I have no idea I mean I'm all for a Amy Klobuchar. She's been my favorite from the very beginning. I find it kind of funny. That people are considering that this that this actually might happen I'm I'm skeptical of that. But would be delighted. I've basically been sitting this out because I've been covering impeachment but also what's going to happen is going to happen here and If it's going to be Bernie Sanders Than I think anybody who's seeing disaster of Donald Trump is going to have to hold their nose and get behind that I personally hope that's not the choice that people have to make but Whatever it is people who need who need to not have in a second term for Donald. Trump are going to have to come together somehow. Let's talk about Bernie because a couple of weeks ago During the impeachment trial you were sitting on the front row of the gallery and spent four hours quote studying the body language and interaction of Bernie and you wrote a column about it. So what did you learn from those four hours in the not so natural habitat of the? Us Senate watching him. Well it was a it was a basically throw away day. We knew what all the outcome was going to be. And I'd written about all the major players there and it was the day of the Iowa caucuses He was going to be heading out there. Ultimately for nothing turned out since they had no results but We didn't know that at the time. So I figured I'd had this He was required his attendance To be there so I said all right. I'm just GonNa Watch this guy and see if I can picture him being the nominee and being the president and I've gotten all kinds of grief for writing at saying. Why aren't you writing about Medicare for all which I've written about since I happen to have a seat in the gallery And since a covered the other players at that point I just sat and watched him. I don't think he realizes he's being observed there. No cameras trained on them because of the The rules that Mcconnell and company set up I mean he knows that they're reporters up there all the time he'd look up at the gallery. I pretend to be studying my notes or something so he didn't realize I was staring at him but He had he had a cold so a bit of a mess to start with with the tissues. But that's not his fault I don't fault him for that but What you see I think when he's rumpled And disheveled I mean he worked his way systematically through biting his nails may be more nervous about Iowa than he led on just sort of not talking at all with his neighbors they they come up to give him well wishes and he'll do a perfunctory handshake. It reinforces that notion. He is a loner among his colleagues. There he doesn't really have pals in the Senate In the Congress and And he's a bit of an oddball. He's Spending a Lotta time Leaning his chair so far back is right in between Shots and Merkley and his hair would almost get in the water glass of them. I don't know how he does this without Falling Down so you have this character with his hair. Almost in the water glass throwing his nail clippings Into the Bin and I think this is the charismatic leader of the new left. And it's a little It's a little hard to imagine you know to each his own. Wow that was too much information. Dana. I'm not going to be able to my head for the next couple of days. When I'm I'm sorry about that. Well there is. The fight continues. Is the Democrats. Fear of trump and hatred of trump is that why on the Democratic Side? Some of the norms are being shattered and I s sat in the context of Bernie being the front runner right now and a New York billionaire. Who promoted and endorsed stop and Frisk for ten years? Just might get the nomination. It's true I mean I've this is a bit controversial to say because it makes Bernie Bros. Really unhappy but there is something about Bernie Sanders that is a democratic trump. He's completely opposite views. He holds I none of the reprehensible aspects of trump. But you have this guy Who seems to be able to get away with whatever I mean. Take take Turning over his Medical records which he promised to do. Now he's saying yeah go to hell. I'm not I'M NOT GONNA turn over my medical records and he'll get away with that He The disdain for the media is one aspect of it. The ability to communicate directly with his Passionate followers is another aspect of it. So it's not in substance at all but it's just In style I can't say that the Bernie supporters are wrong. It is possible that the way to battled trump is with your own trumpian figures Khanna class to shatters norms of his own and Really brings people out to vote who might not otherwise have voted. I mean both. In that sense both parties would be leaving the the the person the middle Up Up for grabs not really competing for that but I could see Democrats Drawing that lesson less so with Mike Bloomberg as a short Jew from New York. I'm skeptical that the nation will pick a short Jew from New York but Otherwise you would have gone for it right clearly no right I. I'm kicking myself and now there's this big moment joe. Yeah by the way. That's that's a whole other subject for another day. How many Democrats are kicking themselves right now for either not getting in or not staying in. Yes. How about Sherrod Brown our raise your Sheridan Go Terry. Mcauliffe absolutely absolutely. It's not too late Terry. Jump IN I wanted to ask you Before we let you go about a column that you wrote recently about Mitt Romney and I want to dive in a little bit on it. The the title of the Column Was Mitt Romney's act of bravery changed nothing and changed everything. And here's what you wrote quote every once in a long while. A single act of conscience can repair the nation's soul in the dark days of Joe. Mccarthy's terror senator Margaret Chase. Smith of Maine spoke out against her fellow. Republican when nobody else would during Watergate Senator Howard. Baker of Tennessee uttered the immortal words of president from his own party. What did the president know? And when did he know it and now Senator Mitt? Romney joins the honorable Pantheon of lawmakers from John Quincy Adams to John McCain. Who put principle over party talk a little bit about being in the gallery for that? Nine minutes speech. That was an extraordinary moment. And you don't really see those very often. I you know I observe politicians. But it's almost always plan or you know what's going to happen now. Romney had talked to some outlets on an embargo basis. But as I sat there I didn't know what he was going to say. The others in the gallery didn't either and I was only one of a few people in the gallery when he started speaking. And then there was a stampede. Imagine Sal you could sort of here where he was going With this thing he sort of built up to like. I think I know where he's going with us. And then and then sure enough. The scene on the floor was the usual like nobody was there. I think it was Roger. Wicker came in and looked at him and looked at his shoes and walked out like he wasn't going to be part of this whole thing. You had Brian Chats. Was there when chasing after him to congratulate him Which probably wasn't helpful either but You knew right there. I mean that twelve seconds when he talks about his faith in God and he's has to collect himself is about to cry on the On the Senate floor. Because he knows what's going to happen you know. He talked about the abuse he's going to get from the president. Sure enough. I mean. Maybe he didn't expect the president would literally Question his faith which saved yet another new low and he'd be attacked By the Party perhaps driven out of the party was definitely going to become Something of a pariah and you could. You could just see there. This is a man taking a stand. That's going to do him. No good politically and probably means that he will not be able to run for office again but I have no doubt that what he said was true that he was doing it for history for his family for his conscience and forgot So that led me to believe you know we we've seen Mccain we've seen Jeff Flake extent Bob Corker Justin Amash and they each one of them sorta gets beaten up In their own way and yet others keep coming forward so I think as long as that still happens even if it's a minority of it doesn't make any difference in the ultimate tally. Then when there's still some reason for hope it did change the dynamic. I think it was very possible. Joe Mansion would have Gone the other way possibly. Kristen cinema but once Romney did there was no. There was no path for them in that direction and became a bipartisan. Vote to convict rather than a bipartisan vote to acquit and at the very least it changed the ability of trump to crow about his exoneration yet. Dan I would just say that. I want to agree with the very last part of the point there. Which is I think Romney did. Open up a lane for some Democrats To do the right thing and I think they will genuinely torn and I think it's not disconnected from the four prosecutors resigned. I think he said an example for everyone that you do have it within your ability to do the right thing. I think people have forgotten that and I think it does mean something I get your point. That means everything and it means nothing because it doesn't change the facts on the ground but it was a moment where people were reminded that doing the right thing is an available option and that sometimes your countries more important than your personal position and I think there's a kind of straight line to the prosecutors resigning and some of the former administration Senior people speaking out John Kelly late last week as an example and I guess As a way to close a Katie. And I thank you for what you're doing and I'm sure there are days it feels like it doesn't make a difference but it does and we just want to thank you for coming on and for being Dana millbank. Well thanks for doing what you guys do as well right Joe. So after that. Great interview with Dana. I actually wanted to dive in a little bit with you. And Get your perspective on the Roger Stone Case and how the department has been behaving in my opinion the department and bar in particular kind of flew under the radar a little bit during impeachment in state out of it and now they're back with full force but I wanted to get your take on what's been going on this potential hearing. That might be happening next month with bar before the house. Judiciary what do you think about all of this so No particular order the idea that A major miscarriage of justice may have taken place within a week of the president being acquitted In the Senate for being impeached and the Attorney General will not sit in answer congressional questions for six weeks his in and of itself a joke it makes a mockery of the system. Because in six weeks we will have three to five more alleged crimes and injustices. It is a clear example of the ED branch telling the Congressional branch they don't matter and I really don't understand Democrats pliability on this and and and saying that this is all right. Take one step back here. Generally when you have An administration that some scandal breaks out conventional wisdom says. Let it play out for a while before you try to add gasoline to the fire because once you had gasoline fire becomes very political. I well that doesn't work. In the trump administration. The scandal of Monday gets overwhelmed by the SCAM DOLE UP Wednesday and the scandal of Wednesday gets overwhelmed by the scandal of Friday. So you have to act immediately and try to hold them accountable and I think too much of the old ways of doing things still permeate Washington politics and I will boldly predict that when Bill Bar sits before Congress five weeks from now he'll be answering to something else than the Roger Stone case I mean they'll be certainly questions about it but the idea that that's accountability is absurd. So that's that that's one level. I think the the broadest way to look at this is the lack of surprise that that these things are happening. Remember the entire Ukraine scandal that led to the president's impeachment surrounded an issue that really came to the fore in a phone call between the president and the president of Ukraine. That happened the day after trump in his mind was cleared of the more investigation. Mowers Poor performance on the hill. Where he didn't seem to even know his own report emboldened the president to say. I got away with that. I can get away with anything now. Non withstanding a Senator Collins Portman Rubio Alexander and some others Murkowski that the president would learn a lesson from impeachment. He he did. He learned the lesson that he learnt post more. Which is I can get away with anything. And we're really seeing a very dangerous acceleration of trump not to destroy guardrails norms but his willingness to break the law and it. It's coming in a number of ways. He has fired people for testifying against them if he was anybody else if if he was the CEO of a company he'd be held accountable. He has gone after a judge In the last week he has influence in a way that goes against all of the standards of the Department of Justice how they approach one of his friends. You talk about where a refusal is appropriate. The president should be recused from DOJ decision making on individual trials period. But he certainly shouldn't be weighing in on trials that involve his friends and his oldest political advisor. This gets lost in all of this Barajas Stones. The Guy who convince trump to run for president without Roger. Stone trump isn't president. He's not he's not in the political lane that he got in ten fifteen ago. So all of this is immoral and bad behavior and quite likely illegal but I mentioned this when were talking to data but trump is now Ridding and purging himself of anyone he thinks either has expertise or is not part of the cult and he's bringing back the cult members. We found out last week. That hope Hicks. Who was in the middle of the drama from the first part of the administration is coming back to be a counselor? He's bringing back Johnny mcentee to run the personnel office. Remember Johnny Makati was appropriately. Walked OUT BY SECURITY. Because he was a security risk the back story in the press and he never talked about it was he had a gambling issue and now we're gambling all of our presidential personnel decisions and not just the cabinet members. This is all the people who fill out the thousands of political appointments. The president's able to make is going to be vetted by a guy who was walked up by security just a little over a year ago that demonstrates trump thinks now that he is. The monarch is the dictator. He is the authoritarian figure and no one is able to hold him accountable. And why should he not think that when his political party has consistently said? Oh don't worry about it. He won't do it again. Or You guys misunderstand him where the fecklessness and the spineless nature of the political leadership with his own party make cult is now. It might not even be strong a word to describe what the Republican Party has become so I look at some of these Republican senators and they they haven't lost their brains. They've lost their guts and they've lost their heart and we are in for a very very dangerous But as an observer you know if you're a historian right now you WanNa stay awake twenty four hours a day because the I think the very future of how we look at the presidency's at stake between now and November n beyond no matter which way it goes and you run out of ways to describe how disturbing dangerous and vile it all is. We had a great episode last week with Jen. Psaki talking about the primary process really just we had a caucus up until that point. Now we have the results from New Hampshire. We have a primary in the mix. And we're going into South Carolina Nevada and into Super Tuesday. So I wanted to get your take on what the landscape looks like now and kind of your thoughts on the process so far because there there's a lot of criticism of of how it's been handled and relying on states such as Iowa and New Hampshire So early on for a party has a huge contingent of black voters and a caucus and primary that have much fewer than I think is fairly represented in the party. That's come up a lot this week so wanted to get your take on that. And and on Bernie leading and the field as we know it now yeah. There's a lot to unpack here. So let me just touch briefly on some of the big things. One is every four years. We talk about. How Iowa New Hampshire are not representative? How it's a bad system. And then the person who wins takes. The lesson of while Iron Hampshire were pretty good for me and it never does change. I think now it will change and it'll change not because it was unrepresentative because Iowa so screwed up the process that no one's really sure who the winner is. I mean both Buddhism Sanders are sure they want and maybe will eventually find out. I'm not sure it really matters. It matters in the sense that I think will finally kill that off and go to you. Know a series of regional primaries. That's that's early my hope. But the caveat to that is I've been having this conversation among friends for almost thirty years in and you know every four years it doesn't change. I think a big part of the issue though is how the media covers the race. Yes you have a beginning a middle on an end of the story and the media wants to skip the book and go to the back page and read it and tell you sorta self-confidently because they know we haven't read the back page. This is what we think it means. And this is where we think it's going and we just don't have the data to know where it's going and and particularly in this race as unsettled as it is. Everyone would be well served by taking a deep breath and using the best phrase ever journals in which is at this point. I just don't know Lawrence O'Donnell Had A little bit late. Last week quoting the great screenwriter William Goldman wherein he wrote in a book about Hollywood the phrase. Nobody knows anything and he applied it to politics and he was exactly right is right now. Nobody knows anything or maybe a better way to say it is. Nobody knows most anything. We know that Biden performed poorly. We don't know that he's dead. We know that Elizabeth Warren has not reached the expectations. She set for herself as the hot candidate last summer. There you can. You can lean in a little bit more on boy. I don't see a path but we don't really know and we be much more honest straightforward about it. Here's what we do know. The media wants to constantly look at whatever the shiny object is as opposed to what the landscape is. The landscape of the Democratic Party is the following. It is a center left party. It is not a moderate Conservative Party. It is not an ultra progressive party. The bulk if you look at the exit polls excuse me the entrance. Polls I guess they call them now in New Hampshire. It bore this out completely Twenty one percent of people going to vote on a Hampshire said. They were very liberal. That's progressive that's Bernie Sanders that's Was Bit worn. Seventy six percent said they were somewhat liberal or liberal. So that's centre-left that is the bulk of the Democratic Party now. Some argue that Hampshire isn't representative and that's right but I think ideologically it is a representative in fact when you go to state senator more diverse you get. I think an even bigger middle group because African Americans and Latinos tend to be less Ultra Progressive Than White College educated voters and just a landscape fact. So New Hampshire tells us that the Democratic Party has not changed radically. It also tells us with Bernie. Winning that ultra progresses have done an amazing job of moving the party on some issues and the importance of building out things like universal healthcare. That's probably the best example. It's I like to come at it from the other end to say you know. When did it become the moderate position that CONSERVATIVE POSITION FOR DEMOCRATS TO BE FOR PUBLIC OPTION? You go back five years. That was the radical position. So I give I give the progressives the ultra progressives a lot of credit for moving the The the debate on some of these issues to where it's going to be eventually we're going to have a public option. It's just a question of of win. the rest of the world. Does it that way we will eventually do that way? We just had to fight our way through the details of that. So in looking at Bernie Sanders getting twenty five percent of the vote in New Hampshire for me. That's the most predictable thing I think you could expect. Could he have gotten thirty percent? Yes should he have yet? I think if he'd been up there more and run a better campaign he you expect them to get thirty percent particularly with Elizabeth Warren fading for whatever reason she faded for but I don't see him getting fifty percent of the vote anyplace because he doesn't represent where the majority of the Democratic Party is. Now sometimes there are leaders who are so charismatic and so inspiring that they pull the party in their direction. I think Bill Clinton move the party from far left to a center. More Centers Party Barack Obama kept the party in the middle as opposed to moving to the left. I don't see Bernie Sanders. Is that leader? He's seventy eight years old. He's been in Congress for forty years. He got nothing done in those forty years. And there's no legislative accomplishment like Joe Biden has. He's got a series of them. He's all these a little frail but he's got some big ideas And I expect that twenty five to thirty percent of the Democrats will continue to support him because he is aligned with their ideas and they believe them and some of them are good. Some of them are a little out there from my perspective so while five hundred thousand people have participated out of a country of three hundred and fifty million. I'M GONNA go with William Goldman at this point and say nobody knows anything including me except for. We don't know where this is going. And the idea that coming in a very close second or tie in Iowa and then getting something like seventy or eighty thousand less votes. The second time through New Hampshire that that doesn't make you a strong front runner. I agree that right now. Who's done the best will Bernie. Sanders is done. The best the in raw voting. Who's done the best as far as position the south to get the nomination? That's where Goldman's right. Nobody knows anything. Well we'll continue to pick your brain about a joe in your expertise as we move forward in the nomination process and as new players start to come in and actually get on the ballot as opposed to write in With Bloomberg. We'll see we'll see what happens. Thanks for your thoughts as always until next week next week. Eighty thank you for listening to words matter please. Rate and review words matter on Apple. Podcasts and other podcasts providers.

president Donald Trump Democrats New Hampshire Congress Bernie Bernie Sanders Dana millbank Roger Stone Justice Department Department of Justice Senate Joe Lockhart Hampshire Joe Washington Post Iowa Elizabeth Warren Attorney Democratic Party
1980, Carter vs. Reagan: Lets Make America Great Again

American Elections: Wicked Game

44:38 min | 11 months ago

1980, Carter vs. Reagan: Lets Make America Great Again

"It summer nineteen thirty four at a radio station. In des Moines Iowa the young broadcaster suits in a small booth in front of a single microphone next to him a fellow named curly sits in front of a telegraph machine. Curly's typing a message onto a piece of paper. Rips out the page and hands it to the broadcaster reads it nearly word for word. Bill Jersey steps up to the plate for the comes. Broadcasters in the middle of calling a baseball game between the cubs and the cardinals, the come shortstop Billy Joel is the first batter up dizzy. Dean readies himself for the first pitch is season and been one for the record books folks. Though Wrigley Field is some three hundred miles away. The broadcaster helps give the radio listeners at home the illusion of a play by play experience he has plenty of help in a small booth at Wrigley Field in Chicago. Telegraph operators watched the game live and tap out the action coded messages that are then sent to operators of various regional radio stations like this one but this particular broadcaster has a knack for the job. He's only been Wrigley field once, but he still has an uncanny ability to convince his listeners. He's right there in the action watching every pitch taking in the sights and sounds of the ballpark just like they would be if they were there. As curly decoding types out the next message, the broadcaster tees up the action to come Dizzy Dean winds up, and let's go the first pitch. Curly slips him another piece of paper when the broadcast receives the message, his face goes white there's no outcome typed on the message simply reads the wire has gone dead. The broadcaster looks to curly for some further explanation but only receives a shrug communication between Wrigley. Field, and the booth and moines is down but the broadcaster has already told his listeners. There's a pitch heading to the plate at this second. So on his feet jirgas, fouls went off behind third base. Currently gives him a curious look this time the broadcaster shrugs he knows his station isn't the only one covering the game. If he doesn't keep talking his audience will tune in elsewhere. He's always said, radio is a theater of the mind an opportunity to use his imagination and create stories share with his listeners. This is his chance to prove it Andrew Bogusch, thousand other one off Dean Goes Rosberg. He's pitched a scoreless game so far and doesn't want to rush anything. He steps back onto the mound shakes off a sign from. His catcher shakes off another dean goes into a long wind up finalists. Go with another pitch journalists makes contact. It has a chance just fallon right field for nearly six minutes des Moines broadcaster improvises the events of the game without any real information. Finally, the wire comes back on curly slips another piece of paper the message res, Jirgas popped out on the first ball pitched curly looks worried the prog Yasser just miles. He's told a good story and he's kept his audience engaged as far as he's concerned he's done his job. Curly didn't know at then and neither did the many fans listening at home. But in the summer of nineteen, thirty, four that broadcast announcer took a small step towards becoming a national celebrity after his days calling ballgames in Des Moines. The broadcaster would go on to become a famous actor. You would rise to prominence inside his union and his time serving in a leadership role. In the screen actors guild with the stage for his entrance into the world of politics. After being elected the governor of California Ronald Dutch Reagan would set his sights on the White House. But to win the presidency just as he had done in his days as a baseball announcer, Reagan, would have to rely on his folksy charm and his natural ability to tell a good story. The people who drive industries entertainment and culture shape our world every day in bold and dramatic ways. But did you ever wonder how they got there? Behind the talent features in depth conversations with people who identify and develop talent, the people who find the people that shape our world guests include big league sports, Scouts Rockstar talent agents, and CIA officers, uncovering the skills and challenges that unite them. All is the job of host David. Mead. He's an expert speaker and educator, and he brings his own curiosity and insights to each interview to expand our understanding of what it means to be a recruiter. Today's world of work brought to you by indeed dot com behind the talent is a must listen for anyone interested in the secrets behind identifying talent and unlocking potential in individuals and organizations subscribe to behind the talent now wherever you get your podcasts. Graham and this American elections wicked game. Ronald Reagan love telling stories. Later in his life he gleefully recount his moments in the booth during that cubs cardinals game to biographers and members of the press occasionally changing in detail or to and suggesting had been a turning point in his career Dutch a childhood nickname stemming from his Dutch boy haircut and never been one to settle for something just because he was good at it, he enjoyed his work but calling games from hundreds of miles away wasn't enough. You wanted to tell stories on a larger scale and reach a bigger audience. This desire led him from a radio booth in. Iowa. To the film sets of Hollywood. Reagan worked in movies consistently in the late thirties while he was never considered one of the great actors of the era, he did become a household name he dated and eventually married. Jane Wyman, his Co. Star, in the nineteen thirty, eight film brother Rat, his notoriety grew as Reagan and Wyman became one of Hollywood's favorite celebrity couples in nineteen forty Reagan's notoriety and his love of sports and movies helped him secure what would prove to be his most famous film role Notre Dame football player George GIPP. Playing the gipper cemented Reagan's image and American pop culture, and eventually put him in a position to take on a leadership role in the screen actors guild during the sometimes violent strikes of the conference of Studio Unions and nineteen forty, six Ronald. Reagan. Proved to be such an effective communicator with both SAG leadership and rank and file members that he quickly rose from third VP to president of the screen actors guild. This was in many ways. Reagan's first foray into politics, navigating the egos and disparate agendas of union membership taught Reagan, a lot about compromise and the pressures of leadership perhaps more importantly, his time has SAG president put him directly at odds with the Labor movement Reagan had been subjected to what he called near constant bullying sometimes, even physical violence during labor dispute this may be more than anything started to shift his political views when he came to Los Angeles in the thirties, he'd been a staunch Democrat who idolize President Franklin Delano. Roosevelt when he left his position Sag, he removed to the right politically by the early sixties. He officially joined the Republican Party and became a leading voice of a movement that for decades had conservatives in both parties struggling to make their message more appealing. But by the nineteen seventies, conservatism was on the rise in the minds of many Americans. President Johnson's Great Society said of domestic policies aimed at eliminating poverty and racial inequality had been an abject failure. Many Americans were ready for change. Many Republicans hoped Reagan would lead the charge. With his second wife Nancy at his side Reagan gave voice to these sentiments and told the story of an America that was going in the wrong direction with wide support out West Reagan made his move into American politics and served two terms as governor of California from nineteen sixty seven to nineteen, seventy, five for many conservatives. Governor Reagan made the perfect presidential candidate is unique talents on the political stage would earn him the nickname the great communicator. For many moderate Republicans, Reagan's conservatism was too much for the American people to take the midst of a struggle between moderate and conservative Republicans Reagan. Would rise to power. In, might be said that Reagan's campaign for President in nineteen eighty began four years earlier at the nineteen seventy six Republican national convention though he failed to secure the nomination. Then Reagan used his oratorical skills to lay the groundwork for his political future and to take the Republican Party in a bold new direction. The episode forty nine nineteen eighty Carter versus Reagan. Let's make America great again. It's Thursday August nineteenth nineteen seventy six inside Kansas City Missouri's Kemper Arena Ronald. Reagan takes center stage at the Republican National Convention. He's just lost the nomination to Gerald four hotly contested convention. But now with a battle over Ford has asked Reagan to say if you conciliatory words in a show of Party unity as Reagan steps to the podium many GOP leaders in the crown wonder if Reagan will extend an olive branch or fan the flames of division, there are cynics. Who say that a party platform is something that no one bothered to read and it doesn't very often amount to much. Whether it is different. This time that it has ever been before I believe the Republican Party has a platform that is a banner of bold unmistakable color with no pay. Oh, Pastel shade. Many in the crowd leap to their feet, Reagan is not take shots Gerald Ford. Stand from the very beginning he praises the strength vision of the Republican Party. We have just heard a call to arms based on that platform. And a call to us. To really be successful in communicating and revealed the American people the difference between this platform and the platform of the opposing party, which is another. Revamp and a reissue and running late late show of the thing that we've been hearing from them for the last forty years. Reagan owns his moment in the spotlight without effort. He shifts topics, nasty convention crowd to imagine Americans. One Hundred Years in the future and Benny ask those in the Convention Hall that Night What Message They might send to those future Americans you're going to write for people one hundred years from now. Who Know all about us we nothing about them. We don't to what kind of a world they'll be living in. There is no teleprompter notes in his hand. Reagan prepared these remarks for an upcoming engagement in California. But as he uses them tonight appears he's speaking entirely off the cuff and suddenly. I thought to myself if I write of the problems be the domestic problems. which the president's spoke here tonight. The challenges, confronting us the erosion of freedom that has taken place under Democrat rule in this country. The invasion of private rights, the controls and restrictions on the vitality of the great free economy that we enjoy. These are challenges that we must meet. Reagan uses his future American Story to shed light on what he sees as the threats facing the United States. Today, he continues to push the idea that American freedom is under attack from both a failing Democratic Party at home and from the Soviet Union abroad he continues to whip up the crowd and calls on them to beat the defenders of America's freedom whether they have the freedoms that we have known up until now. Will depend on what we do here. Will they look back with appreciation and say, thank God for those people in Nineteen, seventy six who headed off the loss of freedom who kept us now one hundred years later free who kept our world from nuclear destruction. After Reagan speech one listener in the arena lamented, we've nominated the wrong man. Decades later, many historians will look at this speech as the moment Ronald Reagan and the Conservatives won the battle of ideas over the moderate wing of their party. At the time though many Reagan's lost afford as a victory for the moderates and the end of Ronald Reagan's political career. But Ronald Reagan was no stranger to losing his life. In Hollywood, often consisted of being beaten out for parts by other actors or simply being rejected by producers before having a chance to read for a role it was widely believed that Reagan had lost out to Humphrey Bogart for the lead in Casa Blanca despite the fact that Reagan was never even considered for the part it was a business that at times declared you a loser even when you weren't actually playing the game. Reagan's experience on Hollywood taught him to take losing in stride and focus on trying to get the next job. But many thought there wasn't one in politics for Reagan despite his rousing speech at the convention many in the country. Especially Democrats thought that this marked the end of the road for the former California Governor Reagan was not a young man. He would be sixty nine years old by the time of the nineteen eighty election. This would make him over a year older than the oldest president ever elected at the time William Henry Harrison who had served for thirty days in the White House before passing away too many retirement seem like the only logical option for Ronald Reagan. And for his own part, Reagan did little to change their minds the day after the Convention on. Friday August Twentieth Nineteen seventy sex before leaving Kansas City to return to California, Reagan gathered those who had worked tirelessly for his campaign. Several were seen crying as Reagan, thanked him profusely and said his goodbyes telling them we lost. But the cause goes on in those words many political pundits heard a final departure from politics. The conservative movement will survive Reagan seemed to say, but without him. However Reagan didn't end his goodbye to his adviser staff and volunteers on that note instead, the storyteller is said to have reached back to his youth recall a few lines from all ballot he knew about the Scottish Sailor Sir Andrew Barton. I'll lay me down and bleed awhile although I am wounded I am not slain I shall rise and fight again. Democrats in the media close the book on Reagan. All they wanted. But those who knew him best new Dutch was far from done wounded perhaps but not out of the fight. In one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, six Gerald Ford Lost Jimmy Carter in the presidential election which Reagan and many other Republicans saw as a call for the party to finally embrace the conservative movement. Make the shift to the right that Reagan had argued for throughout the nineteen seventy, six campaign. Over. The next three years Reagan Watch Carter Flounder both at home and abroad under Carter's watch inflation soared unemployment rose and the country moved into a recession Republicans and even significant number of Democrats came to view Carter as weak and helpless. They argued that another four years with him in the White House would diminish the United States standing on the world stage and weaken their fight against the Soviets for many these fears about Carter seemed justified when on November fourth nineteen seventy-nine Iranian militants protesting US support for the Shah of Iran sees the American. Embassy in Tehran and took fifty two Americans hostage. With a Believer Democrat in the White House the Republican Party saw an opportunity to take control as the nineteen eighty election season approached answering the call Ronald Reagan announced his candidacy for President on November thirteenth. Nineteen, seventy-nine in New York City, less than two weeks after the Americans were taken hostage for many. The staunch outspoken opponent of Communism was the clear choice to challenge President Carter supporters even. Pointed to his speech at the Nineteen, seventy, six convention has his claim to be the next Republican nominee for president, fully re-energize after his lost afford an eager to combat what he saw as true threats to the American way of life and Reagan chose a famous slogan. Let's make America. Great. Again, he strove to demonstrate how the country's former greatness could only be regained through the conservative movement. Not everyone agreed and Reagan soon found himself at odds once again with a moderate wing of his own party, many of these moderates argued that Reagan's rhetoric towards the Soviet Union served to push the United States closer to nuclear war others express fear that Reagan's brand conservatism wouldn't play to the general population that if Reagan was their nominee, the Republicans would find themselves on the losing end of yet another national election still others pointed to down ballot elections for the cause for concern suggested Reagan might polarize the Republican base and bring down Senate and House candidates with him. The longtime divide between moderates and conservatives in the Republican. Party lend to a crowded field and a range of obstacles for Reagan. Early in the race, he was faced with multiple challenges including Tennessee Senator Howard Baker former secretary of the Treasury John Conley House members from Illinois, Philip Crane, and John, Anderson, and Gerald Ford's running mate Bob Dole. Some moderates even push Gerald Ford to run again, a will-he-won`t-he narrative started to build around the former president journalist and biographer lou cannon would later write about those early days of the nineteen eighty primary for the Washington. Post. Saying the entire Republican establishment trying to prevent Reagan from becoming the party's presidential nominee. Despite, all the challenges. One man in particular would separate himself from the rest of the pack decorated World War Two veteran and former head of the CIA George Herbert Walker Bush would emerge his party's best chance to stop Reagan and to keep Republicans in a more moderate lane while Reagan held an image as a hero based on his roles in Hollywood movies George, h w Bush supporters were trying to show the American people that their candidate was the real thing. With his extensive military intelligence background Bush would be presented as a president we won't have to train and on the campaign trail, the two men would find themselves at odds. They would rarely find common ground on economic policy or the best way to deal with the Soviets additionally there vastly different personalities would create a sense that the two men simply didn't like each other when asked by campaign eight about his feelings towards Bush Reagan would simply say that Bush lacked spunk. Contest between Reagan and Bush then would come to symbolize the conflict within the party itself while Reagan would maintain his frontrunner status. Early on George H, w Bush would do everything in his power to deliver an upset victory in the country's first vote at the election sees. Bush believed that a surprise victory in Iowa could cast doubt on Reagan's campaign. Changed the face of the Republican primary. It's early January nineteen eighty. George H, W Bush takes the stage at the Des Moines Civic. Center for the first of its kind republican primary debate in Iowa. The last time to Republican candidates held anything close to a primary debate was in nineteen forty eight when New York governor Thomas Dewey and former Minnesota governor. Harold. Stassen. When head to hand over the issue of communism days before the Oregon primary. Bush spent much of the past year crisscrossing the state engaging what experts blindly called retail politics but the strategy had paid off and Bush has gone from being an asterisk in early polls to a rising favorite among voters and a winner of multiple Iowa Gop Straw polls. But on the advice from his campaign manager, John Sears Ronald Reagan has chosen to skip the debate. Reagan's advisers told him that as the front runner, the event is unnecessary. So Bush's this moment as his chance to steal the top spot from Reagan and sell himself to the American people as a moderate who will work across the aisle I support the multilateral efforts that the president is making in trying to mobilize the UN. The issue on the table not surprisingly is the ongoing hostage crisis in Iran while other Republicans on the stage stress President, Carter's failures, and the United States need to take unilateral action against Iran Bush remains pragmatic as the former ambassador to the UN he knows first-hand how difficult it can be for the UN to take action. Still he believes the United States can show strength without having to go it alone and he does not see attacking President Carter as the best way to secure the safe return of the hostages in Iran as president indicates a certain escalation in tightening of things in relation to the hostage situation I'll support him. In discussing Iran Bush manages to distinguish himself from the other men on the stage but Bush knows the candidate he has to beat is the one who isn't there. When the candidates are asked, how they differ from Ronald Reagan Bush seizes the opportunity to paint himself as the more experienced candidate and look at the experience I've had in foreign affairs being your ambassador in China your ambassador in the United Nations running the Central Intelligence Agency being headed this party on a full-time basis. Bush reiterates his central campaign message. He won't need training, he will be ready on day one while he's able to lean heavily on his foreign affairs experience. Bush highlights his expertise on domestic affairs to and the economy to further distance himself from Reagan who came to politics be Hollywood, and so I would emphasize an answer to the question. That, the breadth of experience I've had in the conviction I have in foreign affairs and domestic affairs and building business. I. Believe the only candidate here that did that met a payroll I believe those things are very important. Highlighting his experience proved to be the right move for George H. W Bush, his debate performance was viewed as a success. Many pundits declared him the clear winner of the night and so is growing reputation as the smart moderate choice and his Iowa Organization. Strong ground game brought him within striking distance of Ron Reagan when the polls opened on January twenty first nineteen. Eighty by the time, the results were in later that night George Bush had pulled off an upset in soundly beat Ronald Reagan and the rest of the field at the Iowa caucus with an early delegate lead he turned his eyes immediately to New Hampshire and looked for a way to make the next major debate an even bigger success than the one in Iowa. Sitting on his campaign plane as it headed from. Iowa, to new, Hampshire George Bush recounted world, war, two stories for the Press Pool Writer Walter Shapiro was on board, and he would later note that while telling war stories, Bush refrained from discussing personal heroics despite the fact that he'd been a decorated naval aviator. Instead Bush liked to regale listeners with dramatic tales of mishaps on aircraft carriers and lay out plane formations using salt and Pepper Shakers Schapira suggested the com- humble. Bush showed on the flight tuna. was indirect. To some of his past behaviors on the campaign trail. One of the more famous somewhat surprising moments had occurred at a Ymca in Des Moines George. Bush generally thought to be reserved by nature had gotten down on the ground and start doing pushups in an attempt to prove that he was in his words up for the eighties while Ronald Reagan thirteen years senior was not but winning the Iowa caucus seemed to restore Bush's concentration and he landed in New Hampshire, feeling upbeat, and determined to keep the momentum going to keep the big Mo as he called it. The New Hampshire primary debate was still weeks away but Bush was determined to get his message out to everyone who would listen he believed if he could follow up his success in Iowa with a win in the granite state, you would be seen nationwide as the Republican front runner. Ronald Reagan though was not wanNA panic remain calm under pressure had helped him call baseball games even when the wire went down and it had allowed him to maneuver the myriad of obstacles. Hollywood presented he'd been far worse positions early in the nineteen seventy six primary against Gerald Ford to and though Reagan ultimately lost afford he'd overcome a huge deficit polls and early primary votes to present a real challenge to the sitting president. So when people had counted Reagan out, he came roaring back forced an open convention when the votes were finally tallied in nineteen seventy six. Ronald. Reagan had come closer to unseating an incumbent Republican president than any Republican nominee since Teddy Roosevelt. William Howard Taft in one thousand, nine hundred. But it was true. The Iowa caucus was a disappointment rain. Still it was no cost to change his message messaging alter his strategy. He thought before Iowa internal numbers from his campaign showed Reagan, with a nineteen point lead Bush New Hampshire after Iowa internal campaign number showed him trailing Bush by six points. Still as far as anyone could see, Reagan wasn't panicking behind the scenes though his campaign manager John Sears was growing anxious still Reagan saw. As an opportunity to quickly right the ship. Despite trailing in the early delegate count, Reagan's can't firmly believe winning a New Hampshire could restore his front runner status in the Republican. Field and set up a clear and easy path to victory new. Hampshire debate would give Reagan. The perfect opportunity to separate himself from the new moderate rival George Bush. Much of Reagan's let's make great campaign focused on the United States international standing. He argued for more aggressive posture towards the Soviet. Union he promised that if elected the US would engage in a massive rearmament effort and revisit salt to a proposed arms treaty with the Soviets that Reagan vehemently disagreed with. He Bush differed in their approach to foreign policy. Reagan knew that wasn't the best way to attack his opponent Bush had served bravely in World War. Two he had worked as an ambassador headed the CIA, his foreign policy credentials were a strength, not a weakness. So instead, Reagan would highlight the domestic aspects of his plan for making America great again. Reagan believed the federal government itself played a major role in the decline of America's success. He painted Washington DC as a place run by entrenched crafts with far too much power and an inability to get anything done. Reagan suggested that along with political elites and DC powerbrokers Washington insiders had taken away the voice of the people. Reagan had been in politics for over a decade and worked in Hollywood for twenty years before that still he presented himself as. A. Folksy mid Westerner who deeply understood the plight of the average American Reagan. New George H W Bush could not say the same as the Science of Prescott Sheldon Bush a wealthy investment banker and former United States senator from Connecticut Bush was an elite as someone who had worked in and around government for the larger part of his career. George Herbert Walker Bush could be painted as an insider, a part of the broken system that needed to be fixed. As Reagan continued to push his attack on bureaucracy and big government leading up to the New Hampshire, debate some on the left and in the national media began to write them off. They accuse Reagan of making misleading statements regarding the economy and US foreign affairs. They noted how Reagan. Seem to never have thought out when he was going to say until we appear to stumble a times when speaking but not all on the left were convinced that Reagan was not a threat but former Democratic rival of Reagans and California told The New Yorker he's not a fool, the national media underestimate him. For those who truly understood rain they saw in him a brilliant performer who easily connected with rank and file Americans in covering Reagan on the campaign trail rider Elizabeth drew said, Reagan speaks to people's resentment as in nineteen seventy six. He is the candidate of indignation. Now, he's added the politics of Nostalgia Reagan does not disappoint his audiences nor they him. And it was exactly people's resentment and the politics of nostalgia that Reagan would use as weapons in New Hampshire to set himself apart from George Bush. The New Hampshire debate scheduled take place on February twenty third had already sparked controversy among Republicans Reagan had told his campaign manager John Sears. He would not sit in the Hampshire out has he done in Iowa wants this was made public the Bush camp's sought a one on one debate with Reagan believing this could be their chance to deliver a knockout blow to the rest of the field improved that. Iowa. Was Not a fluke Bush staffers and many among the Republican leadership saw New Hampshire as an opportunity to put an end to Reagan's chances for the presidency and to stifle the growing power of the conservative wing of the party having the two candidates alone onstage they thought gave Bush a much better chance to show why he was the right man to take on President Jimmy Carter in a national election. The NASHUA Telegraph was set to host the debate, but the Federal Elections Commission informed the newspaper that if they were the debate sponsor, all of the primary candidates would have to take part neither Bush nor the paper wanted this. So they approach Reagan with another option, the Reagan camp could pay for the one on one debate and it wouldn't be subject to the rules of the F. E. C.. If Reagan paid, they could leave the other candidates off the stage. Reagan's campaign agreed to pay thirty, five hundred dollars for the event and allow the telegraphed host Bush those at the paper thought they'd gotten everything they wanted but like many in the national media they had underestimated. Ronald. Reagan. As George Herbert. Walker Bush prepare for what he saw as the most important night of his political career. Ronald. Reagan. To set up an event that ensured the story out of New Hampshire would solely focus on him with the debate only a few days away. Reagan's set the stage for night that would come to be known as the turning point of the nineteen eighty campaign in the end it wouldn't be Reagan's views on the federal government or a stance on the Soviet Union that would change the course of the Republican primary. It would simply be his long-held ability to improvise. On Saturday February twenty third nineteen, a raucous crowd of New Hampshire voters piled into the National Senior High School Auditorium to hear from two leading Republican candidates, Ronald Reagan and George H W Bush. Both campaigns understood the result in New Hampshire could likely decide how the primary would play out if Bush could beat Reagan. Again, he can carve a wide path to the nomination and outcome that would have seemed impossible just months earlier if Reagan can right the ship in New Hampshire though he could write off Bush's Iowa performance as an aberration and reclaim his front runner status. John Breen editor of the Nashua Telegraph and moderator for the debate introduced the candidates and Reagan and Bush took the stage the crowd erupted. It wasn't the standard applause for favorite candidate. Something else was happening inside the auditorium and everyone knew it. Bush and bringing turn to see senators. Bob Dole and Howard Baker and Illinois representatives John Anderson and Phil Crane taking the stage unbeknownst to in the Bush camp or at the Nashua Telegraph Ronald. Reagan had invited the rest of the candidates to participate in the event. He didn't tell Bush or Breen in advance. Stunned and feeling as though, he'd been made to look like a fool the moderator bream attempted to shout down the crowd in order to make an announcement he accused Reagan of breaking the rules of the debate Reagan back and asked to make an announcement of his own as Reagan tried to speak John Breen call for the sound man to cut off Reagan's microphone. With us then please terms director. Is. Mr Green determine on my. For. Hey this microphone. Crowd, noise drown out brains reply. Reagan. Then demanded breen let the other candidates participate in the debate the crowd cheered even more. The improvised line I am paying for this microphone Mr. Green. Complete with a mispronunciation of John Breen's name became the only news that mattered from the New Hampshire debate exchanges on foreign and domestic policy were easily washed over many people's zeroed in on the fact that while Ronald Reagan took on the moderator and call for every candidate to be heard George H W Bush froze and looked down at his notes Reagan. Himself would later say his improvise line his performance. In new, Hampshire may have won him the nomination years later Bobby Molloy sound man who refused to cut Reagan's Mike gave an interview to a local New Hampshire TV station recounting the moment. George. W BUSH GETS UP ON STAGE AND WE'VE got some video. We can take a look at he goes up on the stage and goes up has a drink of water and you clearly trying to sort of take command of the situation and then Reagan goes up there. What is going on here? People confused at all about what's happening? Yes because. I would say they really didn't know what the program is because the playbill promoted the Bush Reagan, debate? and the other four came out with Reagan right right behind him and I kinda felt bad for them because they were like little sheet being you know they were standing behind George Bush and they didn't say anything they didn't do it. They would just kind of motionless and you looking at like four lamps standing behind guy. Take us back to that day in Nashua. What did you notice about Governor Reagan as he arrived? As he arrived his face was red. Over in the first thing he did was he grabbed the microphone and as you heard him, say assisting on. So he went up there and he wanted to explain to people what had actually transpired. And as he started to do it. John Rena, asked me to join the microphone off which I obviously wouldn't do and didn't do. Law then explains to another reporter why he wouldn't do. I wouldn't do it for two reasons. Number one I wouldn't be that route to a man who guest in your auditorium and secondly wasn't footing the bill for it in the end Malloy. Thanks Reagan probably got his money's worth. I was probably the best thirty, five, hundred bucks a restaurant in his life. Thanks in part to sound man Bob Malloy. Ronald Reagan went on to win New Hampshire easily and several of the men Malloy called little sheep quickly dropped out of the race George Bush kept fighting though he competed in thirty three more primary against Reagan. He lost twenty nine calls for Bush to drop out of the race came from the Reagan crown for months. But Bush believed the longer he stayed in the better chance he had for the vice presidency. With a nomination fairly in hand Reagan wasn't sure he wanted Bush vp the two men disagreed on a number of issues of policy they had very different personalities but Bush was a moderate many Republicans thought a moderate was exactly what Reagan needed on the ticket. When. It became clear that Reagan would be the nominee. Reagan's conservatism became a much bigger issue in the media and the idea of a Reagan presidency started to spark fear and many across the country while campaigning for Jimmy Carter Kereta Scott King wife of the late Dr Martin Luther. King Junior said I am scared that if Ronald Reagan gets into office, we are going to see more of the Ku Klux Klan and A. Resurgence of the Nazi party distrust of Reagan and the Conservative movement caused John Anderson recently, a Republican candidate to run for the president as an independent. So the GOP believe choosing a moderate running mate would ease some of the concerns among Republican and Democratic voters many suggested Reagan should call on his old rival former president Gerald Ford to run with him. They saw the Reagan Ford Combo as an unbeatable ticket, but there was Talk at Ford when only join Reagan if Henry Kissinger with brought on to be Secretary of State and Alan Greenspan was chosen to head up treasury those close to Reagan, and even Reagan himself were said to view those demands as Ludicrous Greenspan and Kissinger were exactly the type of Washington insiders Reagan was running against and then any further chance of a Reagan Ford ticket vanished when Ford sat down for an interview with Walter. CRONKITE cronkite brought up a rumor that Ford and Reagan were working on a deal for a CO presidency. Watching at home Reagan is said to have been appalled at four didn't deny the rumor outright. So on July Seventeenth nineteen eighty during the final day of the Republican National Convention Reagan officially announced that George Herbert Walker Bush would be his running mate and that together they would keep Jimmy Carter from winning a second term. President Jimmy Carter had gone through his own battle in the Democratic primary, ultimately fending off a challenge from Massachusetts, Senator, Ted Kennedy. The heated contest had caused a split among Democrats and many believed it further weakened Carter's chances of winning reelection still despite a fractured party economic troubles and the lingering Iran hostage crisis poll showed Carter and his running mate. Vice President Walter. Mondale in almost dead heat with Reagan and Bush in October national polls went back and forth as both sides trying to map out the clearest path to victory for Carter coalitions and the north and west that he'd form to win in seventy six would have to hold Reagan, would have to win over moderates rely on growing contingent of conservative Republicans in the East. During the fall campaign Reagan had also hoped to debate. Carter, but the president had passed because independent candidate John Anderson was taking part Carter didn't want to bolster Anderson Campaign in any way and he saw only a benefit and letting the two wings of the Republican Party badly other without a Democrat onstage as an added distraction Carter might have been prudent to avoid a debate because after his one on one debate with Reagan Anderson's poll numbers plummeted and his candidacy was all over. So with national poll shifting between Reagan and Carter almost continuously the American people seemed undecided this change Carter's calculus. It was now time to take on Reagan in a debate just one week before the election. So once again, with cameras rolling and the American people watching at home, Ronald Reagan would shine. It's October twenty eighth, Nineteen Eighty the public auditorium in Cleveland Ohio's packed for the first and only debate between President Jimmy Carter and former California governor Ronald Reagan. Carter and Reagan take their spots behind their podiums. It's clear early on the Carter hopes to paint Reagan as a trigger. Happy Arch Conservative itching for war with the Soviets and itching to take away any safety net for the American people both I. All my predecessors have had a deep commitment to controlling the proliferation of nuclear weapons in countries like Libya or Iraq. We have even agent is some of our closest trade partners because we've have insisted upon control of the spread of nuclear weapons to those potentially terrorist countries. When Governor Reagan has been asked about that. He makes it very disturbing comment that non-proliferation or the control of the spread of nuclear weapons is none of our business. But Reagan uses Carter's answer on terrorism to take a strong stand of his own and give the media clear. Sound Bite. They can take away from the debate I believe it is high time. That the civilized countries of the world made it plain that there is no room worldwide for terrorism there will be no negotiation with terrorist of any kind. Reagan goes on to deny Carter's accusation the non-proliferation was number business, but as often the case with Ronald, Reagan his most shiny moment comes in an off the cuff remark when Carter Attacks Reagan for opposing Medicare and aspects of national health insurance for poor Americans. Reagan doesn't get angry or loses cool. He smiles chuckles and others of phrase that would become part of political lore. Now you go again. But his most memorable words come in the final moments of the debate in his closing remarks, Reagan talks directly to the American people and draws in his audience with his gift of Gab. Next Tuesday's election. Next Tuesday all of you will go to the polls. Stand there in the polling place and make a decision. I think when you make that decision might be well if you would ask her. Are you better off. Than you were four years ago. The importance of the debate between Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan was reflected in the number of people tuning in to watch the almost eighty one, million television viewers may dis the most watched presidential debate in American history and that record would hold until the first debate between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in two, thousand sixteen. The following day news highlights of the debate were dominated by going reviews of Reagan's performance and justice. He was able to New Hampshire against George H W Bush in his debate against Carter Reagan succeeded in making the news of the debate all about him. On November fourth as Americans made their way to the polls, both sides believe the election would be a nail biter happily faded within ninety minutes of election returns coming in. It was clear even early on that Ronald Reagan would be the next president of the United States and it wouldn't be close and all Reagan one, four, hundred, eighty, nine electoral votes. To Carter's forty, nine, Karner carried his home state of Georgia Mondale's home state of Minnesota Maryland Hawaii West Virginia Rhode Island and the District of Columbia John Anderson running as an independent secured under seven percent of the popular vote. But no electoral votes, Reagan's percentage of the electoral vote was the highest ever won by a first time president-elect other than George Washington. And riding on his coattails, Republicans reclaim control of the United States Senate this marked the first time. The Republican Party had controlled either chamber of Congress since one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, four. In his victory speech from Los. Angeles Ronald Reagan. Thanked all of his supporters on behalf of himself and his wife Nancy. He thanked President Carter for his graciousness and then took a moment to give special thanks to the newly elected vice president and his wife saying that no one worked harder for the campaign than George and Barbara, Bush that he looked forward to having a true partnership and true friendship in. The. White House Reagan then spoke of his belief in the American people I am not frightened by what lies ahead he said together, we're going to do what has to be done. Reagan's election would prove to be a seismic shift in the Republican Party and the American political system. The roots of modern conservatism had perhaps begun back in the nineteen sixty four election with the nomination of failed Republican candidate Barry Goldwater. But goldwater started. Seeing determined to finish the sixth party system as it's called by historians was crystallized with Reagan's election with his inauguration in January nineteen eighty-one America. was in the throes of the Reagan Revolution. Next on American elections wicky gain the election of Nineteen eighty-four with a Republican controlled Senate and a clear mandate from the American people. Ronald Reagan sets out to show. American. Strength Abroad and to reduce the role of big government at home the idea that his political future will ever be unquestioned seemed impossible but a widening wealth gap and along gunman's bullet will threaten his first term and his prospects. For reelection don't miss a single week of our march from seventeen, eighty, nine to twenty twenty, hit the subscribe button on your podcast APP. Now, this show is supported by you our listeners please give us a rainy aleve review, but the single best way to help the show is to tell others share with your friends and family find on social media and wicked Game Pot and I'm at Lindsey Adrian. To support the show is to go to wicked game podcast DOT COM members there get early access to add free episodes as well as bonus content only available to members find out more at Waikiki game podcast, dot com about our reenactments. In most cases, we can't know exactly what was said, but everything our show is heavily researched and based on surviving historical. Documents wicked game isn't airship production created hosted and executive produced by me Lindsey Graham Audio Editing Molly Bach sound design by Derek Barron's CO executive produced by Stephen Walters in association with ritual productions. This episode written and researched by Michael Federico fact checking by Greg Jackson C. L. Salazar from the podcast history that doesn't suck music by Lindsey cramped distributed by wondering.

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Best of 2019: Watergate Pt. 1

Conspiracy Theories

55:31 min | 1 year ago

Best of 2019: Watergate Pt. 1

"Hi It's molly. Here is one of conspiracy theories most requested episodes of two thousand nineteen nineteen will be back on January eighth with an all new episode. Have a happy and safe new year at around one a M on June seventeenth nineteen seventy two three plain clothes. Police officers were patrolling the foggy. Bottom neighborhood of Washington. DC when a call came over the radio a security guard. The Watergate complex just a few blocks away had found evidence of a break in when the officers arrived at the scene. The twenty four year world security guard. Frank Wills explained that he'd been making his rounds. When you discovered an exterior facing stare will door had been taped so it wouldn't lock walk? He removed the tape but when he returned ten minutes later he found that someone had reset it as the officers made their way way upstairs. They found that every door leading from the stairwell into the office had been taped on the sixth floor. Adore had been forced open and it led into the main offices of the Democratic National Committee. The officers crept through the darkened office space ear straining training for any movement as they entered aside office. A figure leapt up out of darkness and cried. Don't shoot. The police switched on the lights to reveal. Oh five men in business suits and rubber gloves cowering beneath an office desk. The third rate burglary had been foiled wailed almost as soon as it had begun but the Watergate Saga was just getting started. Soon it would open the eyes of the American people to a dark truth. There nation was not led by upright civil servants but by ruthless power. Hungry men who were willing to cheat lie I instill to get what they wanted. And that's just the official story. The truth might be even darker Welcome to conspiracy theories theories apar- cast original every Wednesday. We dig into the complicated stories behind the world's most controversial events and search for the truth. I'm Carter Roy Brandenburg and neither of us are conspiracy theorists but we are open minded skeptical and curious. Don't get US wrong long. Sometimes the official version is the truth. But sometimes it's not you can find episodes of conspiracy theories and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream conspiracy theories for free on spotify. Just open the APP tap browse and type conspiracy theories in the search bar. This is our first episode on Watergate. The political scandal that began in nineteen seventy two when five five men were caught breaking into the Democratic National Committee headquarters over the next two years journalists and congressional. Investigators exposed the White House's houses involvement in the crime and the ensuing cover up ultimately leading to the end of Richard Nixon's presidency. This week were covering the accepted story on Watergate next week will dive into some of the wilder conspiracy. Theories and bizarre stories surrounding the scandal will follow follow Watergate's very I whistle blower as she's kidnapped and held captive against her will will investigate the role of Watergate. Persons in a Boeing seven. Thirty thirty seven crash that killed forty five people and will explore the connections between Watergate and the assassination of John F Kennedy at podcast. We are grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do. We love let us know how we are doing reach out on facebook and Instagram degrom at podcast and twitter at podcast network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to Hell is a five star review wherever you're listening it it really does help. Bob Woodward was awakened by the sound of his telephone at nine. AM on June seventeenth. Nineteen seventy two. It was Berry sussman. His boss at the Washington Post asking if he would work on a Saturday five men had been arrested for breaking into the Democratic National Committee headquarters at the Watergate Complex in the middle of the night. The story didn't sound particularly shakily. Promising to the twenty nine year old reporter he doubted there was much of value to steal from the DNC headquarters. It was an election year. In in November President Richard Nixon would be running against Democratic challenger George McGovern the break in had most likely been the work of rogue uh hot headed Republicans looking to con- trouble for the opposition. The preliminary hearing had been scheduled for later that afternoon so the reporter dragged himself out of bed and headed down to the courthouse. He arrived just as the burglars. arraignments were getting underway Woodward took a seat near the back and and flipped to a clean page of his note pad. The young reporter was startled to learn that in addition to lock picking tools the five men had been carrying camera equipment. Three pen sized tear gas guns and too sophisticated electronic listening devices. They also had close to six thousand dollars in cash between them. Mostly in sequential hundred dollar bills by all appearances the men had been in the process of bugging the DNC. Is he offices and had been paid handsomely to do so. The burglars were identified as for Helium. Gonzales Bernard Barker a Ohio Martinez James mccord and Frank Sturgis while most newspapers would focus on the fact that four of the five men were Cuban American Woodward was more interested in James mccord. The only non Cuban when the judge asked the men to explain what they did for a living mcchord or to answer that he was a security consultant when the judge pressed him for details mcchord hemmed and hawed before finally coming clean until recently he had worked as a security officer for the United States Central Intelligence Agency that got Woodward's attention what that was an ex. CIA doing breaking into the Democratic headquarters. He didn't know what it meant. But this was quickly shaping up to be a bigger story than he'd previously thought someone was behind the break-in someone with a hefty pocketbook access to CIA men. In presumably political motivations as the arraignments drew to a close Woodward race back to the Washington Post offices while Woodward was scrolling crawling notes in the Washington DC courtroom. Richard Mille House. Nixon was enjoying a long weekend at his home in Florida. Things were going well for the fifty thirty nine year old. Thirty seventh president of the United States. His recent visit to the People's Republic of China and historical meeting with Chairman Mouse Saddam had been well received saved relations with the Soviet Union. Were better than they had been in years. The withdraw from Vietnam was taking longer than he would like but there was no helping it most most importantly Nixon had a healthy lead over McGovern in the polls while he wasn't willing to rest on his laurels he fully expected to win re election in in November. But that was all before he learned about Watergate according to his memoirs Nixon Learn about the break in through newspaper article. He read on in the morning of June eighteenth. He claims that he initially dismissed the break in as a prank and didn't think about it again until he was on the plane. Back to Washington Nixon Special Counsel Charles. Colson remembers things differently claims that he spent most of Sunday on the phone discussing the break in with the president and when Nixon learned that one of the arrested burglars was Xiii Security Officer James mccord. He became so enraged that he hurled an ashtray across the room. Nixon had good reason to be upset since retiring from the Central Intelligence Agency James mccord had. I've been working as a security consultant for both the Republican National Committee and Nixon's own fundraising organization the committee to re elect the president. which would soon come to be known derisively? As creep mccord's involvement was a big problem for the campaign and Nixon himself at best. It looked like he couldn't control his people at worst. It implied something that was previously considered unthinkable that the president president of the United States was involved in criminal activity while Nixon and Colson were discussing how to react mccord's arrest Woodward Woodward and his partner twenty eight year old. Carl Bernstein were digging up everything they could find on the burglars on June Nineteenth. The Monday after the break in the Washington Post ran an article under the headline. GOP security aide among five arrested in bugging affair Woodward and Bernstein in had uncovered the link between mcchord and the president's reelection committee. John Mitchell the head of the campaign arm and Nixon's former former attorney general released a defensive statement insisting that the burglars quote were not operating either on our behalf or with our consent three days later on June twenty second President Nixon publicly addressed the break and for the first time by insisting that quote the White House has had no involvement. Whatever in this particular incident? Most of the press accepted the blanket. Denial it seemed crazy. I think that the White House could be involved in such a nefarious and shoddy operation. Especially since it wasn't clear what the president stood to gain by bugging the DNC offices without evidence to the contrary any speculation that the White House was involved would be considered highly unprofessional. All but Woodward and Bernstein weren't satisfied between the large sums of cash found on the burglars and mccord's connections to the CIA and and creep they figured that someone in the government or Nixon's campaign committee must have been involved but proving that would be a difficult task. Ask Fortunately Woodward had a friend high up in the executive branch he had helped reporter on some stories in the past under the condition condition. That Woodward never quote him even anonymously in newspaper parlance he was on deep background. No one at the Washington Post not even Bernstein. New Woodward's sources true identity. One of the post editors had started referring to the source as deep throat. A play play on his deep background status and a reference to a pornographic film. That was making a momentary sensation. The unfortunate name stock when Woodward reached out to his source and asked about Watergate deep throat seem nervous and would only say that things were about to heat up he did did give Woodward one piece of information. One of the Watergate. Burglars was carrying an address book with the name Howard e hunt written beside the words words w house Woodward tried all the Howard hunts in the phone book but came up dry as a last hail Mary. He dialed the number for the White House and asked to speak to Howard Hunt to his surprise. The operator transferred him to the Office of Charles Colson. Nixon special counsel Colson Secretary Answered Howard. Hunt wasn't in at the moment but she could offer another nether number where he might be reached Woodward put down the phone in disbelief at what had just happened. Since learning about mccord's involvement with creep deep he had suspected that someone higher up in the fundraising committee might have ordered or at least known about the break in now he had established a direct link between the Watergate burglars and the President's inner circle next next the White House moves to squash the FBI. Investigation into the Watergate burglaries. Hi It's it's Carter podcast listeners. We have something special. You can only here on spotify. Starting December eleventh par cast is re releasing forty-five classic episodes from the critically acclaimed series. Remarkable lives tragic deaths as part of the new limited series famous. Fates Join Vanessa. Richardson in and I as we discussed the amazing true stories. Behind some of history's most influential lives and shocking deaths. Every Wednesday famous famous fates will release five binge worthy episodes only on spotify. Each group will center around a common theme such as Hollywood icons mysterious mysterious deaths or notorious names from Marilyn Monroe and Harry Houdini to Vincent Van Gogh and Al Capone will delve deeper into the extraordinary. Mary lives that helped shape. Our world and explore the lasting effects. Their deaths had on our culture. These incredible stories are all brought to life by an ensemble cast of talented voice actors and most importantly these episodes are all free and only available on spotify follow the par cast limited series famous fates only on spotify now back to the story. By mid July alive nineteen seventy-two most national newspapers had moved on from the Watergate story Woodward's discovery linking the break in at the DNC. The headquarters two men close to the president had made little more than a blip in the coverage of the upcoming elections. Nixon was still performing well ahead of McGovern in the polls. The American people simply didn't believe that the president could be behind such a shoddy burglary by the end of summer only. The Washington Post was covering the story with any frequency Woodward and Bernstein had spent the weeks since Watergate questioning the employees of Nixon's reelection committee. But so far no one was talking as soon as the creep employees heard that Woodward and Bernstein worked with the Post they clammed up and refuse to talk talk. The reporters didn't know what to make of it. They had expected reticence to talk about the embarrassing story but the fear they saw in the creep employees always faces was undeniable. It was almost as if someone had threatened them into silence but rather than convincing Woodward and Bernstein Ornstein to drop the case the cloud of mystery surrounding Watergate only heightened the reporters since there was something more to the story tired heard of having screened doors shut in their faces. The reporters decided it was time to try a new track Woodward reached out to deep throat his source at the executive negative branch who had supplied the Howard hunt tip this time deep throat seemed even more nervous than before he told the reporter that people at the White House. We're taking Watergate very seriously much more seriously than the rest of the nation. If anyone found out that deep throat was leaking INFO to ah the press he could lose his job and even face prosecution not to mention make an enemy of the most powerful man on the planet despite the risks deep throat agreed to help Woodward where he could but they had to be careful that meant no more phone conversations stations. If Woodward wanted to meet he would place a flower pot with a red flag on the rear of his balcony. Then in the middle of the night he would take take a series of cabs to a prearranged meeting place at a darkened garage frequently. The Information Woodward was looking for was too sensitive for deep throat to give him but he could offer guidance Aden's and confirm information the reporter already had he assured Woodward that he was moving in the right direction and encouraged him not to give up the trail they had begun with Howard. Hunt Woodward left a meeting with a new focus. If the creep employees wouldn't talk he and Bernstein would have have to try a new tactic they would follow the money on August first the Washington Post published a Woodward and Bernstein Article under the headline bugs suspect got campaign funds. The reporters had traced a twenty five thousand dollar check deposited into the bank accounts of one of the Watergate. Burglars backed Nixon's Reelection Committee even more damning the check which had originally been earmarked as a political donation and had been laundered through a Mexican bank to make it more difficult to track. The article also revealed that the FBI suspected White House consultant Alton Howard e Hunt and g Gordon Liddy of involvement in Watergate. The White House responded by firing Liddy and distancing itself from hunt but the damage was done even if no one else at the White House had been aware of the plan to people involved with Nixon's reelection committee ahead approved of the break in donations to Nixon's campaign had been used to fund a criminal act. Republicans could no longer believably really claim that Watergate had been the work of overzealous citizens with no connection to the President on August twenty ninth. Nixon held hill the press conference at his oceanside home in San Clemente California and once again addressed the Watergate break in after conceding. That mistakes mistakes had been made on both sides of the political aisle. He assured the press that thirty four year old White House counsel John Dean had personally investigate estimate the accusations and found no ties to the White House. Nixon then made what would turn out to be one of the most brazen and ironic statements of his political career quote. I can say categorically that his investigation indicates that no one on the White House staff. No one in this administration station presently employed was involved in this very bizarre incident. What really hurts in matters of this sort is not the fact that they occur because overzealous overzealous people in campaigns? Do things that are wrong. What really hurts is if you try to cover it up? Nixon speech held one Modicum of truth John Dean's investigation hadn't found anything because John Dean's investigation didn't exist in fact ever since June Seventeenth Nixon and his aides had been doing everything in their power to stymie the official investigations into the burglary. That's the official. She'll story at least John Dean would later admit that he and FBI Director. Patrick Gray had personally destroyed incriminating documents from Howard hunt safe but even after Dean's admission Nixon's apologists would question whether the men had acted on the president's orders orders or their own volition but more on that in a bit as September arrived Woodward continued his covert meetings things with deep throat while he Bernstein pounded the pavement. After three months on the Watergate case it felt like the reporters were finally making Progress S.. The cracks were beginning to show amongst the ranks of Nixon's reelection committee. Several employees were now convinced that their bosses were involved in something something illegal while most were still too scared to give up any information on their own. A few were willing to confirm or deny information. The reporters already had on October tenth less than a month before election night the Washington Post released their most damaging damaging revelation yet under the headline. FBI Finds Nixon. Aides sabotaged Democrats. Thanks to tips from deep throat and a a few creep employees willing to talk Woodward and Bernstein had discovered that Watergate was not an isolated incident for over a year before or the June seventeenth. DNC bugging operation members of the reelection committee had conducted a massive campaign of politically motivated spying and sabotage designed to ensure Nixon's second term frequently. These dirty tricks amounted to little more than practical jokes in in one instance creep associates race through the halls of a hotel where DNC campaign. Staffers were staying and stole all the shoes they'd left out in the hall but be polished but other activities were more serious and sometimes illegal. They spread slanderous rumours about Nixon's political enemies to the press in forged letters to disgrace them. They had already been successful in forcing a significant Democrat challenger to drop out of the race during the primaries again. That's all the official story says. While many of the men who participated in these activities would later admit to their crimes. It still left the unanswered question of how much Nixon actually knew about the operations. We do know that some of his closest advisers and aides were involved as Bernstein and Woodward reported on Tober tenth. These sabotage operations had all been paid for through a secret slush fund at the committee to reelect president moreover the activities were not merely the brainchild of Liddy and hunt but had been conducted at the direction of White House. US officials in fact the slush fund was controlled by John Mitchell the head of creep while he was still serving as Nixon's attorney general despite its explosive content Woodward and Bernstein's article barely registered with the American public only only McGovern and the. DNC seemed willing to believe that members of the White House staff had been involved in an elaborate conspiracy. Many Americans dismissed the accusations. Mutations as politics as usual on November seventh nineteen seventy-two Richard Nixon defeated George McGovern in a landslide on slide. Victory taking forty nine states and over sixty percent of the vote in the aftermath some of Nixon's aides privately joked that the Watergate Watergate scandal was to thank for Nixon's win. The Democrats had spent the last few months of the campaign fixated on an issue that according to the results Americans Americans simply didn't care about has Nixon began his second term Woodward and Bernstein found themselves in a Rut after are all of their reporting on the Watergate story. Americans had chosen to stick with Nixon while there were had played a critical role in the arrests of G. Gordon Liddy Eighty and Howard Hunt. They were confident that other members of Nixon's administration were guilty as well but so far only seven men liddy hunt want the five burglars had been indicted for the young reporters. It felt like a failure but the story was far from over on January eighth. Nineteen seventy-three the indicted. Men's trials began Howard Hunt and the four Cubans pled guilty. He immediately though they maintained that no one else was involved. mcchord and lady fought their charges but nonetheless they were convicted. On January January thirtieth on all eight counts from the outside the guilty verdicts might have seemed like the conclusion to the Watergate story but for Nixon in his administration they marked the moment that the real problems began though. The public didn't know it yet. Creep had already spent close to five eight hundred thousand dollars on the Watergate. Burglars Legal Fees in an effort to ensure their silence now that each defendant faced upwards of forty years in prison in that silence was going to become a lot more expensive on March twenty first John Dean visited Nixon in the Oval Office. Desperate to convince the president of the seriousness of the situation. The agitated young lawyer claimed that Watergate had become quote a cancer answer on the presidency that was growing daily. If they didn't find some way to get it under control. It was only a matter of time before their allies started. Turn against them. His Council could not have been more present two days later. The judge from the Watergate trial addressed his court and read title letter that he'd received from James mccord the burglar and former CIA officer in the letter mcchord clearly spelled out. A number of issues is that he believed had affected his trial quote. One there was political pressure applied to the defendants to plead guilty and remained silent to perjury. Occurred during the trial in matters highly material to the very structure or tation and impact of the government's case and to the motivation and intent of the defendants three others involved in the Watergate. Operation were not identified during the trial trial when they could have been those testifying for almost a year Woodward and Bernstein had written countless words on the Watergate scandal handle each article chipping away at the seemingly impenetrable wall of lies surrounding the White House Woodward was proud of the work he and his partner had done but he was well aware that it hadn't changed anything but from the moment mccord's letter was read before the court it was like a damn had burst open as the White House scrambled to work on yet. Another denial John Dean began to sense that the tides were shifting when Nixon asked him to put together a document on everything he knew about Watergate. The thirty five year old lawyer suspected that he was about to become the scapegoat for the entire cover up on April seventeenth. John Dean informed the president that he had begun cooperating with the. US Attorney's Office office later that same day Nixon learned that along with Dean his chief of Staff. Hr Haldeman and top aide John. Ehrlichman were being investigated it for their roles in the cover up two weeks later on April Thirtieth Richard. Nixon addressed the American people from their television screens. He once again insisted that he was innocent and had no knowledge of the involvement of anyone in his administration nevertheless due to the accusations accusations he had found it necessary to accept the resignation of HR Haldeman. John Ehrlichman and John Dean for the sake of of maximum transparency. He would also be appointing a new attorney general but by this point no declarations of innocence could could stop what was coming on May Seventeenth the Senate's newly-formed Watergate committee began a series of televised hearings into the break INS and cover up back lasting for over two weeks. The hearings were a cultural event. The likes of which the world had never seen the major TV networks works took turns carrying the live broadcasts while pbs replayed the proceedings at night and pr aired audio of the hearings Gavel Talal on May Eighteenth one day after the Watergate hearings began Nixon's new attorney general Elliot. Richardson and announced that he was appointing an independent special prosecutor to investigate allegations of criminal activities surrounding Watergate. The special the prosecutor would have the right to follow whatever leads. They saw fit divulge their findings at their own discretion and could only be removed by the Attorney General himself health and Short Nixon's ability to thwart or monitor. The investigation in any way was effectively. Blocked the man. Richardson had selected selected for the role was far from the neutral party. That everyone had expected Archibald Cox was an attorney law professor and former solicitor solicitor general with a Sterling Record. He was also a staunch Liberal Democrat and a friend of many of the president's political enemies. Publicly Nixon applauded the Attorney General's choice in promised his full cooperation with the investigation but privately he was furious in his memoirs memoirs. He would state that quote if Richardson had searched specifically for the man whom I least trusted he could have not done better than Archibald Cox Walks. The president now found himself in the unprecedented position of being simultaneously investigated by both judicial and legislative slate of branches and finally all of America had taken notice almost one year earlier Watergate headlines had elicited I rolls and apathy now the entire nation was gripped by Watergate fever according to the US Senate within one month of the hearings and astonishing ninety. Seven percent of Americans were aware of the scandal. Seventy one percent of Americans were falling the hearings rings through at least one media format the hearings made stars of a number of politicians. Sam Ervin the Folksy Democratic senator from North North Carolina who led the hearings became famous for eviscerating witnesses without dropping his country lawyer mannerisms Republican Senator Senator Howard Baker asked quote. What did the president know in win? Did he know it so frequently that it became permanently ingrained and in the American lexicon but the real stars were the line of Nixon appointees who are called to testify most notably Nixon's former special counsel counsel John Dean the young lawyer shocked the Senate Watergate Committee with one stunning revelation after another. He insisted that he had spoken to Nixon. About the Watergate. Cover up on more than thirty five separate occasions that the president had advanced knowledge of payments to buy. Hi the Watergate Burglars Silence and that he was willing to pay upwards of one million dollars to keep them from cooperating with prosecutors unfortunately early dean didn't have any documentation to prove his claims and as the only highly placed member of Nixon staff who had turned state's witness Nisa against the president. He suddenly made himself a lot of enemies. One after another. The president's loyal lieutenants attempted to pin the entire in your cover up on him for a moment. It seemed that Watergate might forever remain an unsatisfying case of. He said he said with the public forced to choose between Nixon's word and deans. But there were still more revelations to come in the last week of the hearings. A White House aide named Alexander Butterfield told Senate investigators something that not even John Dean new. In February of Nineteen seventy-one Nixon had installed a voice activated tape recording system in the Oval Office the President in had secretly been recording every meeting and phone call. He had taken since before. The Watergate break in somewhere in the bowels of the White House there were tapes that could prove whether dean or Nixon was lying they could definitively answer what the president knew and when man he knew it if they ever saw the light of day and coming up the White House resist pressure to release the Nixon tapes. Now back to the story. In the spring of Nineteen seventy-three America had reached peak Watergate frenzy. One study determined that eighty five percent of the population Russian tuned in to follow the Senate Watergate hearings as the hearings drew to a close. The committee's investigation uncovered the fact that Nixon Nixon had secretly taped conversations in the Oval Office. The response was immediate. Both the Senate Committee and Special Prosecutor Archibald Cox requested that the White House turn over any tapes relating to Watergate John Dean and L. Put together a list of specific dates in times of meetings things that he believed would be compromising to the president on the evening of July twenty third both the Senate Committee and the Special Prosecutor's Office office received a written statement that Nixon would not be turning over any tapes Archibald Cox raced back to his office to prepare his response response. The next morning Cox issued a subpoena for eight tape conversations that John Dean had identified the president once again refuse to cooperate in a public address to the American people on August fifteenth. He explained his position by stating quote a much more important important. Principle is involved in this question. Then what the tapes might prove about Watergate. This principle of confidentiality of presidential conversations is at stake stake in the question of these tapes. I must end. I shall oppose any efforts to destroy this principle which is so vital to the conduct of this great office Virtually no one bought the argument within days Nixon's approval ratings plummeted to thirty one percent marking thirty six percent. Drop in only six months previously staunch Nixon supporters were forced to admit that the president was hiding something whatever their political affiliations. Everyone wanted to hear what was on the tapes on October nineteenth with the deadline to respond onto Cox's subpoena fast approaching. Nixon suggested a compromise. The White House would provide the special prosecutor's office with transcriptions of the pertinent hurt. Tapes and independent third party would be allowed to review the audiotapes and would confirm that. The transcripts were accurate after that the prosecutors quarters would agree not to request the tapes again. If Nixon's compromise wasn't bad enough. His choice of third party made it an obvious ploy. Oy Nixon suggested John Stennis a senator from Mississippi who was technically a Democrat but was a known Nixon supporter he. He was also famously. Nearly deaf unsurprisingly Archibald Cox refused the offer he announced that he would be informing the the Justice Department that Nixon had refused to comply with the subpoena Atlanta's seemed that President Nixon had his back up against the wall but he was is not going down without a fight. The next day October twentieth would come to be known. As the Saturday night massacre according to the mandate of the Special Prosecutor's Office Nixon could not fire Archibald Cox but he could get rid of his boss on Saturday Saturday October twentieth. Nixon called his attorney. General Elliot Richardson in demanded that he fire Archibald Cox. Richardson refused used and immediately resigned in protest. This man that the Justice Department's second in command the newly appointed attorney. General William ruggles. The House now held authority over the Special Prosecutor's office. Nixon proceeded to order ruggles house. To Fire Cox like Richardson then. He refused and tendered his resignation. Nixon moved on down the line to Robert Bork. The Solicitor General at last the president then had found someone willing to follow his orders. Bork wrote the letter. Firing Archibald Cox bringing an end to the chaos Nixon had rid himself of one enemy but his situation was now more dire than ever his flagrant attempts to influence the investigation had destroyed any question question of his innocence on November Seventeenth Nineteen seventy-three Nixon addressed Americans in yet another desperate attempt to convince them of his innocence in the historic press conference. He stated the words that would ironically come to define his presidency. Let me you just say this. I Made my mistakes but in all of my years of public life I have never profited never profited from public service purpose. I earned every cent and in all of my years of public life I have never obstructed justice and I think too that I can say that in my ears of public life that I welcome this kind of examination because people have gotta know whether or not their president's Crook. Well I'm not a crook. I burned learn everything. I've got feelings of frustration and impatience pervaded the nation as nineteen seventy four dawned. It had been six months since the existence of the Nixon tapes was revealed to the public. Get the content of the tapes was still being withheld but despite the lack doc of new discoveries the Senate Watergate Committee had quietly continued this investigation in March their work led a federal grand jury ready to indict seven of Nixon's top aides including John Mitchell. H R Haldeman. John Ehrlichman and Charles Colson and while Archibald Cox had been removed the Special Prosecutor's office was still operational Solicitor General Bork appointed Leandra Warshafsky to take over the investigation. Asian tour ski immediately followed in his predecessors footsteps by subpoenaing the White House for sixty four recordings Nixon was still all determined not to release the audio tapes but after the backlash she'd faced for the Saturday night massacre. He knew that he couldn't simply ignore the subpoenas us on May first the White House released one thousand two hundred and fifty four pages of edited transcripts of the recorded conversations. The White House is summary of the documents argued that they would put an end to the accusation since quote in all of the thousands of words spoken even even though they often are unclear and ambiguous. Not once does it appear that the president of the United States was engaged in a criminal plot to obstruct justice but if the White House had truly believed this would remove the shroud over Nixon's presidency. They were sorely mistaken rather than proving his innocence. The edited transcripts raised new questions about Watergate at one point. Nixon discussed the prospect of raising a million dollars dollars for hush money. Just as John Dean had alleged there were veiled references to money laundering burglaries and a host of other activities. It made Nixon seem more like a Mafia boss. then-president aside from any illegal activity the transcripts simply made Nixon look bad whereas Nixon had once been considered something about policy genius. He now appeared self obsessed paranoid reckless and crude. The pages were littered with so many instances of the phrase expletive deleted that it became a national joke. The only thing that transcripts didn't show was concern about the country's best interest but while the contents of the transcripts were incredibly damaging what wasn't in them was possibly we even more troubling in eighteen and a half minutes section of a conversation between Nixon and Haldeman from the Monday after the break in was blank blank when asked about the missing section White House Chief of Staff Alexander Haig said he feared that it had been erased by some sinister force I unsurprisingly many Americans jumped to the conclusion that the sinister force responsible for the scrub conversation was Nixon himself self. The implication was damning whatever was said in those eighteen and a half minutes had to be more damaging than anything. The White House had already ready released. But while the transcripts were plenty damaging neither Jew warshafsky nor the Senate Watergate Committee were satisfied with what they had bad. They wanted the unedited audio recordings as originally requested. If the tapes truly were consistent with the transcripts the Nixon sentence should have no problem turning them over. Nixon doubled down on his insistence that the tapes were protected under executive privilege but the Supreme Court Art Disagreed on July twenty fourth nineteen seventy four. The court unanimously ruled that Nixon had to turn the unedited tapes over to Gorski Special Prosecutor's office in his role in exile on Seoul they their lease thanks. bye-bye saw the audio. You're hearing is from the so-called smoking gun tape when of Manny handed over over to the Special Prosecutor's office in late July it was first released to the public on August. Fourth Nineteen seventy four. This time the official officials story is pretty tough to dispute despite the poor audio quality the tape reveals a conversation between HR Haldeman and Richard Nixon Axon recorded in the Oval Office on June Twenty Third Nineteen seventy-two just six days after the Watergate break-in Haldeman broaches is the topic by saying quote the Democratic break. In thing we're back to the in the problem area because the FBI is not under control all because gray doesn't exactly know how to control them and they have. Their investigation is now leading into some productive areas and it goes in some directions. We don't want it to go when Nixon encourages his chief of staff to continue Haldeman suggest using the CIA to shut down the FBI investigation quote the way to handle. This now is for us to have Walters Call Pat Gray and just say stay the hell out of this. This is a business here. We don't want you to go any further on it Nixon. Replies after reviewing the plan he tells Haldeman Allman you call them in good good deal play a tough. That's the way they play it and that's the way we are going to play it. The tape confirmed that Nixon had been involved in the cover up from the beginning. Whatever support the president still had on Capitol Hill immediately evaporated evaporated on the evening of August seventh? The Republican leaders of the House and Senate met with Nixon at the White House and informed him that he faced almost certain impeachment the next day August eighth nineteen seventy four sixty one year old president. Nixon gathered his cabinet in the Oval Office Office. He began to weep as he informed his advisors aides that he intended to step down. The president continued to Cry Silently While Camera Camera crews were brought lights were assembled and makeup was applied. Just before nine o'clock Nixon sat behind his desk and turn to face the camera for the last time. This was the thirty seven. I have spoken to you from this office I have been made that shape the history of this nation each time I have done so special plus with you. Some matters that I believe affected the national interest in August. I have made in my public life. I have always tried to do what was best for the nation. The president explained that while he had always hoped to complete his term in office he no longer had the political base in. Congress is to make it worthwhile. I have never been a quitter to leave office before my term is completed. It's hard to every instinct. Thank my body but as your president I must put the interest of America first. America needs a full time president and full time Congress particularly at this time with problems. We he's face of home and abroad continuing fight through the months ahead for my personal indication. What what almost totally absorbed time and attention of both the president and the Congress and the period when our entire focus? Should it'd be on the great issues of peace abroad and prosperity without their plane home therefore I probably sign the presidency effective at noon tomorrow. Vice President Gore will be sworn in as president at that hour so the next morning. The disgraced thirty seventh president merged onto the south South Lawn of the White House after final emotional speech to a staff. He and his wife Pat made their way to the presidential helicopter running broadly the extended both arms and spread his finger in Avi Symbol. He had used a signal victory in Vietnam. Nixon ducked his head and disappeared inside the door. Shut moments later. His staff and reporters watched as the helicopter lifted up off the lawn. Very Richard Nixon over and away from the White House for the last time vice president. Gerald Ford was sufficiently sworn in as president three hours after his predecessors departure in the East Room of the White House after taking the presidential oath breath Ford turned to the cameras to deliver his first address as president. Quote my fellow Americans. Our Long National Nightmare air is over. Our Constitution works. Our Great Republic is a government of laws and not of men here the people rule but there is a higher power by whatever name we honor Him who ordains not only righteousness but love not only justice but mercy eighty one month later. Ford revealed that his reference to mercy had not been lip service on September Eighth Nineteen seventy-four Four. He pardoned Nixon of any and all crimes committed during his presidency. He claimed that this was necessary. Quote to firmly we shut and seal the book on Watergate in the immediate wake of the pardon most Americans reacted with indignant fury for two years. The Watergate scandal and investigation had consumed the nation and now many felt that there would be no justice. The unpopular unpopular pardon would hamper Ford for the remainder of his term in nineteen seventy six. He lost the presidency to Democratic challenger. Jimmy Carter Well Wale. Richard Nixon was never prosecuted for his role in Watergate. Many of his top aides and advisors were by the end of the Senate and Justice Department. Hartman investigations sixty nine. People were indicted. Forty eight were ultimately found guilty. In nineteen seventy three the Washington Post I received a Pulitzer Prize for Woodward and Bernstein's Watergate coverage in two thousand. Five thirty one years. After Nixon's resignation their source source at the executive branch was finally revealed. The mysterious figure known as deep throat was mark. Felt the associate director actor and second in command at the F. B. I. During Watergate but even with that revelation many believed the story of Watergate. The gate still wasn't over next week. We'll continue our investigation into Watergate by exploring some of the conspiracy Baresi theory surrounding the scandal conspiracy theory number one. The wife of Nixon's former attorney general was kidnapped beaten and and held prisoner for four days to keep her from blowing the whistle on Watergate conspiracy theory number two the CIA engineered the crash of United Airlines flight. Five fifty three which killed forty five people as part of the Watergate. Cover up and conspiracy theory number number three two of the Watergate. Burglars participated in the assassination of John. F Kennedy and Nixon's reticence to release the White House. Tapes stemmed from not wanting the C. I. as role in the assassination to come to light with an official story so obscured by lies and cover. Ups Up's the truth about Watergate is hard to unravel join us next week as we search for answers Thanks for tuning tuning into conspiracy theories. We'll be back Wednesday with a new episode if you'd like to learn more about mark felts role Watergate and the counter intelligence. Tactics takes he employed in his meetings with. Bob Woodward check out our episode on deep throat in espionage another podcast original you can find episodes of conspiracy conspiracy theories and all other park has originals for free on spotify. Not only to spotify all ready. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals. Like conspiracy theories for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream conspiracy theories on spotify. Just open the APP tap browse and type conspiracy theories in the search bar and remember. The truth. Isn't always the the best story and the official story isn't always the truth. 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Day 1,107: Senate Republicans block Trump impeachment witnesses as yet another Bolton bombshell drops.

The 11th Hour with Brian Williams

46:10 min | 1 year ago

Day 1,107: Senate Republicans block Trump impeachment witnesses as yet another Bolton bombshell drops.

"Well good evening once again from our NBC News Headquarters here in New York Day. Eleven hundred seven of this trump administration which leaves just just two hundred seventy eight days to go until the twenty twenty presidential election. The impeachment trial appears to be all over but the muffled shouting by a vote of fifty one forty nine Mitch. McConnell delivered a big victory for his president and no further witnesses will be called nor evidence examined Hammond to Republicans Crossover Romney and Collins yet even though the facts were not in dispute even though some Republicans conceded wrongdoing on the part of the president. His party has now carried him to the brink of acquittal and they've arranged it so the entire Senate will get to watch the Super Bowl and in today's vote happened despite news breaking all around that was not good for the president. Adore is team. The New York Times got on the board early with another story about John Bolton drawing from his new book written by Maggie Haberman and Michael Schmidt who is standing by to join us. They ride together quote more than two months before he asked Ukraine's Ukraine's president to investigate his political opponents. President trump directed John Bolton to help with this pressure campaign. Mr Trump gave the instruction Mr Bolton Road during a an Oval Office conversation in early May that included the acting White House Chief of Staff Mick. Mulvaney the president's personal lawyer. Rudolph W Giuliani and the White House. Counsel Council had Cipriani who is now leading the president's impeachment defense the previously undisclosed directive that Mr Bolton describes would be the earliest known instance of Mr Trump seeking to harness the power of the United States government to advance his pressure campaign against Ukraine trump. Denied denied the report in a statement saying quote. I never instructed John Bolton to set up a meeting for Rudy Giuliani one of the greatest corruption fighters and America and by far the greatest greatest mayor in the history of New York City to meet with presidents Alinsky. That meeting never happened Rudy. Also issued his own denial quote the meeting in the Times The Times describes describes is a lie if Bolton is the source and he believed this was so bad. Why didn't he quit? How much integrity and honor Willemin? Dan Sacrificed for greed and revenge. The latest time story follows their initial reporting that Bolton's book describes trump telling them about linking the freeze on Ukraine. Lena do investigations of all things Biden and the talk that Bolton reportedly had with attorney general bar about his concerns their shared concerns relate that the president it was granting favors to autocrats. There's also news tonight about another key figure in all of this. The lawyer for one time Rudy Giuliani associated. I'd love to send a letter Mitch. McConnell with a laundry list of all that Mr Partners could testify to if called to do so before. The Senate harness phoned into this network earlier tonight said he knew trump had asked Bolton to help pressure Ukraine. Right after that meeting that the both and had with Rudy Mulvaney pets the other president Right afterwards and I discussed the whole meeting was against a dog but because because the president told them to do it. We were under trump. Should they were going to follow the orders until we have also confirmed that Maria von of edge the former. US Ambassador Lassiter Ukraine who accused the trump administration of carrying out a smear campaign against her has wrapped up her three decade long career and has retired from the foreign service US and as we mentioned democratic efforts to hear from new witnesses seemed to be at an end. The vote makes this the first impeachment trial in our history without witnesses and here is the calendar that McConnell has worked out for the Senate for starters. They have the weekend off on Monday. The day of the Iowa caucuses four hours hours of closing arguments. Tuesday senators begin deliberations on the articles of impeachment. The president's State of the Union address happens to be that night next door in the House Chamber on Wednesday. After more open deliberation senators will vote on acquittal or removal and B. C. News reports. The Senate majority leader did place a call all of the president the very subject of this trial to walk him through the schedule before proposing it to the Senate and that the president signed off on the deal. One other thing we we learned this evening. Chief Justice John Roberts did away with any lingering doubts about whether or not he would have broken a tie. In the event of a fifty fifty vote is the chief justice aware that in the impeachment trial of President Johnson chief justice chase presiding officer cast tie-breaking votes on on both March thirty first and April second eighteen. Sixty eight I am MR leader. The one concerned motion to adjourn the other concern. Demotion Ocean to close deliberations I do not regard those isolated episodes one hundred and fifty years ago as sufficient to support a general authority ready to break ties if the members of this body elected by the people and accountable to them divide equally on emotion. The normal rule is that the motion Shen fails. I think it would be inappropriate for me and unelected official from a different branch of government to assert the power to change that result. So that at the motion would succeed. And let's also say something else here also in the news today the. US has added six more nations to the Muslim ban. The Corona virus is now a public health emergency and the U. K. is now out of the EU a victory for two men. Mainly Boris Johnson and Vladimir Putin on that here with our leadoff discussion on a Friday night in Washington Michael Schmidt Pulitzer Prize winning Washington in correspondent for the New York Times. Who broke two major stories on John Bolton just in the course of this week here at the table and New York Peggy Noonan Pulitzer Prize winning columnist for the Wall Street Journal David Jolly former Republican member of Congress from the State of Florida? Who has since left the house and his party and Barbara mcquade veteran federal prosecutor and former? US US attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan Michael Schmidt after a long day with appreciation for you joining us from Washington. A question to start you off do you. You think that Bolten thought his story his telling of it would be more impactful. Why haven't we seen him more fully fully in public say in an interview environment sort of one of the great questions of the entire impeachment? Why is is it that we never heard from Bolton was it because he had a book coming out in March that he didn't want to speak out was it because he didn't think he had the right to make the decision about whether he could testify in defy the White House from telling him not to go along with a congressional subpoena? We have not heard heard from him. And that's why we spent as much time as we did this week trying to find out what was in that book because it seemed like he was someone who was actually in the room. Who was there with the president talking to him? Unlike many of those other witnesses that the House Democrats were relying on and it looks slide from our reporting in that book that Bolton does reveal several details about what the president was saying how the president asked him to set up a meeting with Giuliani so he can meet woods Alinsky. Giuliani was kicking off his campaign to start digging up dirt that the president wanted it. It's this fuller picture that we have of what Bolton knows but as we come to the end of the line here at the end of impeachment that will not be part of it we will not be hearing any of that all that there will be. Are these few media reports these stories that we've written over the past few days and maybe at some point in March when the book supposed to come out or if it's delayed many months later or maybe never. Would we ever see what Bolt wrote left. Parnis of course is still out there. Talking by all indications he's going to remain out there talking and he is talking about connections. He knows of two to people like sit Baloney to people. Like Lindsey Graham. Did anyone in your reporting suggest to you that the opposition to calling witnesses on the part of the Republicans was about more than protecting just one donald trump. We don't have any any indication other than the fact that the president didn't want there to be witnesses and the Republicans went along with it. And that's all that we know. I saw those comments tonight from Lev. PARNIS look Arneses. Someone who's been indicted and needs to show that he has a story to tell there had been a lot of folks like that in the that trump story have come forward to to say to become the sort of true tellers at the moment it remains to be seen what what information he has and what that means to the fuller picture but we do know and probably the most significant thing about this besides the fact that trump was telling them what to do. Was that PAT. zip-lining was in the room for this. He witnessed it and obviously he was the lead lawyer for the president impeachment. Democrats tonight on Capitol Hill will some that. I spoke with making noise about Cipriani's role. Was it unethical for him to have served as a lawyer while he was also a witness. Can they raise ethical questions about that. Can they make bar complaints to the D. C. Bar about his role here. Did he make any statements or going going back in examining everything that he said during the impeachment trial to see whether whether this new fact lines up with what his statements statements were and whether any of them were false. We don't say it often enough. This period has been an unbelievable one for journalism and journalists especially our brothers and sisters jurors in the print trade Mike Schmidt among those had a great week out front for the New York Times. Michael Thank you very much for joining us in starting us off at the end of this long week. Take to Peggy Noonan. We go great to see you again. First of all are you surprised that only two Republicans crossed over after all the Murkowski drama and Lamar Alexander drama. Only Romney and Collins. Yeah it was a a smaller number than one would've hoped I'll tell you. It struck me the decision not to have more witnesses either a handful or one or two or twelve whatever. The decision not to have more witnesses just struck me those an old French phrase. It's worse than on a crime. It's a blunder. It is just a mistake. It leaves history unsatisfied. It knows the fact that a major material witness John Bolton apparently had led out this word that in fact he could prove that the president was guilty the Democrats and been saying he you was guilty the Republicans have been saying. Oh no he's not here's a new witness who just close it up and tells you who connect the president The Whole Story Order Book if you want to raise my goodness it's so I hate to say an old fashioned fussy word like unbecoming but how unbecoming coming is this. He has major information that America has a right to hear nevermind wants to hear it has a right here. It is astonishing that he is not speaking if he will if he cannot speak before the Senate I I will just find it astonishing if between now now Friday night and Wednesday four. PM when the Senate votes to acquit or convict the president we will not hear from John Bolton in that the time it it. It is the withholding of evidence that feels abusive to the whole process to me. I'm on board with unbecoming coming being a terrific word of this day and always. Hey David Jolly I heard one Republican on the air tonight say Republican senators didn't vote doing their jobs today. They vote voted to protect their jobs. And then there is this from Marco. Rubio which I'm hoping you can explain to me quote just because actions meet the two standard of impeachment does not mean it's in the best interest of the country to remove the president from office. You WanNa take a wack at that few greater examples of the absurdity of today's Republican Looking Party then how Marco Rubio justified his vote. Apparently what has vote will be on Wednesday and Brian at all of this today. I mean today. Almost as a culmination of what has been inevitable for almost three and a half years since Donald trump came down the escalator including his his his taking over the party including the Republicans enabling him including him engaging a misbehavior that led to his impeachment. There was a sense of inevitability but as we sat here throughout the day I think particularly viewers who who have followed this closely. There's an anger that has developed tonight. There's a there's a concern in a how could a rubio make such a statement but there's an anger tonight and disappointment and a fatigue and I think the important thing is to recognize is the answer to that. Anger lies in Iowa on Monday. Night buys a New Hampshire and South Carolina and the Super Tuesday states that ultimately early this republic belongs to the voters it belongs to the governed not to those who do governing and. There's an opportunity just within reach for the American people to to do what Republican senators like Marco. Rubio are failing to do this week. Abraham Lincoln said elections belong to the people and if they choose used turn their back on the fire and intern burn their behinds. Let them sit on their blisters and I would say. There's a lot of people across the country tonight night who have no intention of sitting on their blisters. They're going to go to the polls. Donald Trump may have won this round but I think he loses the next one in November. Barb I I was looking at you looking at John Roberts say. Don't look at me to break. No tie even though Salmon Chase did it a long long time ago The congressman invoked Lincoln convoked Salmon Chase. Were you surprised about the chief justice's ruling today. I actually wasn't and you could see. He was actually reading from a piece I so he clearly had anticipated the paid that this moment would come and he wanted to be ready to respond when it did John Roberts famously said during his confirmation hearings that he believed a judge's role was to call balls and strikes. I don't know if he's always lived up to that. Standard on the Supreme Court where one's worldview matters awful lot which is by. We see a lot of five four decisions the Supreme Court but at the trial level. I think he very much wanted to be the empire simply presiding and not involving himself in making substantive decisions visions and so I think many people predicted that when that moment came if there was a fifty fifty tie he would simply say the motion has failed to reach a majority and and that's what he did. None of our guests are going anywhere. We've taken all their car keys to prevent that they're staying with us our special coverage continues right after this break in everything I do during this. I'm coordinating with White House. Counsel no difference between the President's position our position as to how to handle this harsh with your. This is a political process. You don't know your numbers you don't Know Your Business. Most companies don't have a clear picture of their business and that's why many businesses struggled to grow net suite by Oracle. Is here here to solve that problem as a business owner. Are you really confident. You're making the right business. Decisions Serious entrepreneurs and financial teams run on net sweet. The world's number one cloud loud business system net sweet offers a full picture of your business. Everything in one place finance inventory h our customers. No more guessing no more worrying. Run Your Business with confidence. Grow successfully on net sweet like Ring Hint Bollandbranch and over nineteen thousand other businesses net. Sweet business grows here your schedule your free product or right now and receive their free guide. Seven key strategies to grow your profits at net sweet dot com slash. NBC set up your free product product door and get your free guide today at net sweet dot com slash NBC net sweet dot com slash NBC. So I've decided Sharon I'M NOT GONNA go to the Ukraine. You'RE NOT GONNA go. I'm not going to go because I think I'm walking into a group of people that are enemies of the president to review back on May ten twenty nine thousand nine Rudy. Giuliani said. It was calling off an upcoming trip to Ukraine. Thanks to documents provided to Congress by I indicted Giuliani associated. Lev We know that on that very same day rudy requested a meeting with president-elect of Ukraine Celeski the day before four may nine Giuliani told the New York Times he was headed to Ukraine to push for investigations. That would benefit trump. Told The Times at the time. We're not meddling in an the election. Were meddling in an investigation which we have a right to do and today we learned even more about the events in May as the Times reports. According to Bolton's unpublished book. It was early in. May that the President Directed Bolton to help extract damaging information on Democrats from Ukraine. The request came roughly fleet to months before trump's now famous July phone call. Can you do us a favor. Though was Alinsky meanwhile you might remember back in June. The president said that he would be willing to accept dirt from a foreign country on a political opponent if offered your campaign this time round of foreigners if Russia China if someone else offers you information on it should be accepted or should they call the FBI. I think maybe you do both. I think you might WANNA listen. I don't there's nothing wrong with listening if somebody call from a country Norway we have information on your apartment. Oh I think I'd WanNa hear you want that kind of interference in our elections. It's not an interference. They have information. I think I'd take it back with us. Our guest Peggy Noonan David Jolly and Barbara mcquade. You're laughing first of all. I WanNa know if you buy the democratic danger warning about a newly emboldened president or a few by the Republican publican argument. Let's let the voters sort this out. The problem with that is this is about dirtying up our next election in two hundred whatever. Many days as I said at the top of this broadcast long ago. Yeah I do believe first of all I am a great supporter of censure. And there's still time to do it in the US. Senator Israeli merger. Well darn well should. It doesn't take sixty-seven votes that takes fifty one. This would be the first formal disapproval and censoring of a president by the Senate. Since Andrew Jackson it is a large and serious thing and it could be done. So there's that piece of it I happen also think the election is in almost almost nine months. America does not really deserve to be torn apart made more bet bidder go through the tunnel Malt and the chaos of get rid of this president get new president. Let him staff up look the world get used to it. Let him get his party's nomination would be a dreadful thing. For America. Essential would be a clean good thing for America. Let me add by the way about Lamar Alexander who I think did something. So disagreed with him on witnesses yesterday but I really liked one thing. He surprised everybody Brian by saying nobody expected this from he said essentially chilly. Oh the president is guilty. This case has been made. I don't think any other Republican senator had said that and now it is led the way I some weasley people to say. Oh well the Lamar speaks for me. But I was actually personally relieved to see a Republican senator. Say Say do you know we've looked at all the evidence we heard the testimony. Seventeen witnesses we've listened. It is completely clear that the the president was guilty. So why don't we just admit it. Then we can get into side issues about whether it rises to the level of removal etc.. It was a relief just to hear candor done. I didn't warn you. We're both from New Jersey. So tends to happen. Hey David Rally about your old legislative body there is one more move. You know what I'm GONNA say. Pelosi can try to subpoena one John Bolton Special Session Russian House of Representatives walking and chewing gum. On say Monday we got nothing else going on. Would you be down for that. Say hold hold your powder until the book comes out. I'll listen how you get to deal with because of this first of all. I don't think anybody should buy the book and I. I've been piling on John Bolton for two days I'm saying this on behalf of House Democrats. They have led the nation on a journey toward justice and they have absorbed the hits for doing right by the constitution by the rule of law. They have taken the political consequences as they come John. Bolton's about to reveal in six or eight weeks what he knows. I don't think Nancy Pelosi needs to draw her caucus into that until we know what he wants to reveal and depending on what he reveals. Then perhaps they reconsider but I love what you said about Lamar Alexander because right now the first draft of history is being written about the impeachment of Donald Trump Donald Trump and Republicans are going to say he was exonerated rated. He was acquitted. Yeah just like they frame the mullery starting with the Super Bowl and other voice as needed to chime in and say you know what a majority of the United States Senate on finding effect found the president guilty of abusing his office every single Democrat. Did Lamar Alexander did mcaliskey. Did Marco Rubio did. And we're we're GONNA see five or ten more Republican senators in the next week say Donald Trump did wrong. Well you know what Mr President a majority of the United States Senate found you guilty of abusing your office. Yes they may not have voted to to to remove you from office but you have been found as a matter of fact to be guilty of abusing your office. It is important. Written that draft of history be written alongside with the president's going to try to do next week Barbara mcquade two words from your world prior restraint. What's what's the White House power? If they really don't want this book coming out which again. You can already preorder. I'm not trying to sell books pointing it out. You can preorder on Amazon. What's their power over this book? Well prior restraints are frowned upon strongly in Supreme Court jurisprudence the Pentagon papers case. This is the biggest example of that. If there was something specific in there that is classified information that could be a basis for blocking that portion portion of the book from coming out but free speech rights are very strong in this country. And so I think that story is GonNa come out maybe with some minor redaction but you know John. Bolton has written something like eight books he has gone through this pre publication review process before he and his lawyer say there's nothing classified in this so it seems instead that that's being used as a pretext to block publication. Yeah this is not his first Rodeo. He's been dealing with classified information all his professional life another break for us. We'll continue this right after this. There has never been anybody that drew crowds. It's like we draw and I don't have a Guitar Guitar. Can you believe without a Guitar Guitar or organ. The Oregon is there anything more fun than trump rally. Here we are. I got something to show you. Hear the president loves his rallies and in tone and temperament and language and volume they are so different from the backdrop of studied decorum and seriousness. That we've we've all been watching in the Senate Chamber now for days on end but then yesterday as one of the White House lawyers was making his case for the president who we he knew was watching. We thought it sounded familiar. It wasn't lofty or loyally and sure enough. We had heard it somewhere before. Let's talk about some of the things the president has done. We have accomplished more than anyone could have ever imagined to more than seven million jobs created since the election action jobs jobs jobs. The African American African America Spanish American Hispanic America. The Asian American Asian American unemployment rates has the lowest rate ever recorded ever recorded. We've killed a terrorist albuque- dotty Baghdad is dead illegal. Border crossings are down down. Seventy seventy five percent since replaced NAFTA with the historic. MCA sticker the song why. MCI and you US Samsa. Maybe we can even get more done. Congressional Democrats are consumed with partisan rage opposing him in a rasping thing him in a rasping everyone associated with him. We are one move one people one family one nation one people and one glorious Laureus Nation Under Guide We. The American people are happier. This is happy period for that. Lawyers name is Eric Hirschman. His performance was immediately branded as a possible audition for the job of White House. Chief of staff. We are duty bound to point out that on Thursday the president's own administrations recording show economic growth is at its slowest rate now since twenty. He's sixteen peggy. Noonan David Jolly Barbara mcquade. Remain here with us. Barbara talk about that lawyering or the absence of lawyering you saw on display there. Well it sounds like president. Trump wrote his remarks What is interesting about that is? He's really talking about things that aren't relevant to the question of whether president trump should be removed from office. One of the things that made me crazy in many lawyers I'm sure watching these proceedings as the inability of opposing counsel to object and so we heard lawyers make irrelevant arguments. We heard lawyers make misstatements talking about the secret bunker if that were in normal trial l. a. normal courtroom the opposing council would jump up would have checked with state the objections and the judge would shut it down instead in the Senate. We heard all of these outrageous things things and unimpeded. They're allowed to say them. Not only for the audience in the Senate but the audience watching at home or in the White House. David Jolly poll out of Pennsylvania. SELENA basically it's out of Franklin and Marshall Basically asking the question time for a change versus trump deserves reelection. He's underwater fifty seven 1141. It's the kind of number that gets your attention. If you're on the trump political team it does look they have to perfectly replicate what happening. Sixteen narrowly win these five or six swing states. I think they're also going to replicate their strategy of branding the Democratic nominee as socialist or from the Party of socialism realism. And they're going to try to inject some criminality into the the biography of whoever the nominee is but what they also going up against this president who has never had the majority of America with him. He lost the popular vote. He's never polled above fifty percent. He found resounding defeat and the two thousand eighteen midterms. Which is why I began tonight? Saying if you're angry they opportunities right in front of you. This is not a popular president and that question. I remember that moment because the question actually actually came from Cruz or Rubio or one of the people that supports the president and it was basically tell us how great the president is. And why Democrats shouldn't do this to him and the the embarrassing moment for the lawyers probably exceeded only by the embarassing moment of our president when he has rallies like that. He's not a serious president. Peggy Noonan at the top of the broadcast I that called the UK departure from the EU. A victory for two men mainly Boris Johnson and Vladimir Putin. What just happened overseas in your view? I think it is so significant so important it London I mean they celebrated and protested it. It's still passionate Schmidt but I think a wonderful thing is that after four years since the referendum vote where the people said and it wasn't that close let's let's leave the EU the European Union for four years. Really the struggled over that they've had tumbled and a certain amount of political chaos. Okay finally it is going to happen. It was a kind of ethical thing in that it was at odds with the previous sixty st seventy years of history. It was pulling away from Europe instead of adjoining it. We will see how it goes. I was thinking when I look at the brexit the debate everybody lied. Everybody who argued against it was pulling facts out of their ear. Everybody who argued for it was making making it up as they went along. We're going to find out now how this turns out but it sometimes it is good to see a great ally reach resolution. I just hope. We don't see a resurgence of the troubles on top of many fronts where there could be trouble in the UK. Are thanks to this panel again after a Long Day Long Day's journey and tonight at the end of a long week to have peggy Noonan and David Jolly and Barbara mcquade. Here has been a treat for US tonight. Thank you gang. Appreciate it coming up previewing the first actual votes in this presidential election season now three days away if they are the jury today we are the jury tomorrow and this is our chance to send a message that no one is above the law. And when we're back here on Monday to events will vie for our attention closing using arguments for the impeachment trial and the Iowa caucuses and on that Front Democratic National Committee just made a significant change to debate qualifications the individual donor threshold is now gone eliminated giving self-funded billionaire Mike Bloomberg an opportunity to qualify. The first debate affected by this new rule. Package will be on this network February nineteenth just days before the Nevada caucuses with us from Des Moines tonight from the trail Tarini party national politics reporter for the Wall Street Journal and Jonathan Allen. NBC News Senior Political Political analysts. Good evening and welcome to you. Both Tarini for people who've been out of the political news realm today because our attention has been otherwise occupied pied with impeachment. Is this rule intended to get Mike Bloomberg epoch donor to the Democratic Party this year on that debate reached the. DNC has argued that they didn't have my Bloomberg in mind when they made this change. They say that they are looking for. You're some sort of criteria that shows. These candidates have enough grass roots support so for several months that included polling and donor thresholds but now that people are actually starting going to vote the DNC is saying they can use that along with polling criteria. And that's enough of a criteria for them to see who is able to qualify. Well if I get on that debate stage John Does Bloomberg is he anxious to get on the debate stage entirely. Sure that he is Brian Right now. He's spending hundreds of millions of dollars to advertise it. Communicate directly to voters. He doesn't actually have to compete against anybody else The fact is as he rises and if he gets to that ten percent threshold four national polls he will be on the debate stage and so if you're his team you're going to say that you want to be on that debate stage but he still has to prove himself against other people So I you know. We'll see if Mike Bloomberg is able to get that polling threshold and then we'll see if he's good at it Tarini I couldn't help but notice Jane Sanders a senior official with the sanders campaign. In addition to being married to the candidate said this the rules up unclear and Cory Booker Andrew Young and Tulsi Gabbard of not met one of the two requirements. And they haven't gotten any breaks. Is it just just the billionaires who can change the rules. That doesn't seem right. And I'm guessing there's anger and Bernie nation over this. There is some anger it was just at his event tonight. Actually where a lot of his surrogates made that same point but the thing to remember here. Is that what you know. Fighting against billionaires and big corporations is also part of Bernie Sanders message so head of the Caucasus. They are reiterating that they're using these. His new this change in rules to kind of bring that point back up and sort of excite their base as well heading into the caucuses or John Become a prognosticator Asta cater. Tell me what we're GONNA be talking about. In addition to the State of the Union address on Tuesday the day day after story coming out of Iowa and as I will say many times Monday night I won New Hampshire are where we dust off some of our better journalistic bromides and cliches. I think we're GONNA be talking about whether Joe Biden did well in Iowa and has a second wind heading into New Hampshire and our weather Joe Biden came in third or fourth here and looking at the question of whether his campaign is on his last legs. Do you think the Biden campaign has done enough of a self inoculation to who point out as late. Entrance have tried that. Look we're in this for the long game. We're looking at you South Carolina. It's a marathon Khan and not a sprint and their usual argument electability. Look at the long game. I hate to take this opportunity not to back out of that but it is the voters that are going to decide that are going to be the voters in the states. No seriously it'll be the voters in the states in Nevada in south South Carolina if Joe Biden is flagging I it'll be the donors that decide whether they keep donating to them and then it'll be the voters that decide. Are they going to revive him. Because I think for or two time former vice president who comes in third or fourth in Iowa that is a huge signal of a problem with his campaign among certainly voters in Iowa caucus goers in Iowa but also. So you look. That's going to be problematic for him in New Hampshire if the voters of South Carolina decide. They're willing to stick with them for two or three losses You might have a different story. I think it's difficult to see that Tarini year term. What are you going to be looking for Monday night? Going into Tuesday. I think you know Biden standing. Of course we'll be something everyone is going to be watching. You know another thing we've been seeing imposes this Bernie Sanders rise. That is really hard dimiss at this point so the expectations are getting pretty high for Sandra's well he's been Pulling now at the in first place in Iowa so You know his his event his basis extremely excited and it's all about whether they can actually turn out and get those people out on caucus night so I think you know it's it's Biden are Bernie and both of their sort of expectations are high for both of them and it'll be interesting to see if they can actually meet those expectations. I know something about out how hard you've both been working. And what it's like in the winter in Des Moines so our. Thanks at the end of a long week to Tarini Party and Jonathan Allen for spending part of your your time with us tonight more of our special coverage on this consequential Friday evening when we come right back remind our senators that they alone are accountable to you for their conduct. Lord to help built them to remember that they can't ignore you and get away with it for we. We'd always reap what we sow. Hey it's MSNBC'S SMBC's Chris as this week on my podcast wise is happening. I'll be talking with Ezra Klein about his new book. Why we're polarized? It's incredible look diagnosing. What might be the most dangerous dysfunction dysfunction in American politics right now? Polarization can be a problem anywhere but most of the time. It's not that big of a problem because functioning just what you mean is part is very different from each other and so they the present different agendas to the elector. Now you look at our system. Three of the four major power centers in American politics are controlled by the party that won fewer votes in the in the key elections right right and you have this system where power split up in a way that it is not in parliamentary systems. And so it is this system where you need this. High level of compromise high level of agreement a high level of willingness to see the other party as legitimate and even help them cover right not do things that you can actively do under the rules to sabotage them. You need to let them govern. That's this week on. Why is this happening available now? Wherever you're listening to this podcast? No one has had more impact on my life outside my own family. Then Howard Baker he stands his a great example for all all of us who are part of public service. Senator Lamar Alexander has said that over the years many times says he modeled his life on his his mentor. The late Great Senator Howard Baker who is most remembered for asking this question during Watergate. The central question at this point is simply put. What did the president know? And when did he know it and now after his vote today the current Republican from Tennessee and Howard Baker Acolyte will indeed re remembered for something different to talk about it and the day we've just witnessed we welcome presidential historian and Pulitzer Prize winning author Jon Meacham. His works include most recently impeachment impeachment and American history which Senator Alexander among others was spotted reading just last night in the Senate Chamber John and there is this collection of obituary headlines that I'm sure you've seen by now it was put out by just security I sent to me by a friend undermine out in California and it shows these notable lives if you follow politics in American history being from New Jersey. The sandman political dynasty honesty was formidable Hogan in Maryland colwell Butler in Virginia accomplished lives yet when it came time for a headline writer to sum it up when they left this good earth it was what they did during Watergate that they were remembered for talk about that in relation. Listen to the Republican from Tennessee if there are still print newspaper headlines as this generation fades it's interesting that trump fo would fit rather nicely wouldn't it In in big type and they're not going to be many of them Ah Senator Alexander. Made his decision I disagree with it but I'm not in the Senate. The Baker example which is also goldwater example from Watergate. Hugh Scott John. ROADS OF L- lot of southern Democrats as well were people who stood stood up against the base of support that had sent them to power and as John Kennedy reminded us and profiles and courage. That's one definition of courage hemingway called a grace under pressure Politic of Aristotle said the courage is the most important virtue because guarantees all the others. It's a phrase that Churchill loved in Kennedy's case it was voting against yourself interest and I can't help thinking about George Herbert Walker Bush Bush who lost re election only got thirty nine percent of the country to vote for him in one thousand nine hundred ninety two because he had put the national interest ahead of his self self interest and knew it when he raised taxes in violation of his own pledge. He told his diary. I'M GONNA be dead meat and he was but it was the right thing to do. I think that a lot of these senators are trying to have it both ways. I think these statements are about arguing arguing not to of their constituents. Because I think that those constituents are really thinking about the vote and then they wanna move onto the campaign as quickly as possible. These statements are really designed for history. Trich they're designed for those bit writers and I think you can keep writing all you want but the ultimate headline here is did you stand up against it's Donald. Trump's acknowledged lawlessness acknowledged lawlessness or. Did you take a pass and decide to kick ticket to the people. Even though the people themselves may not have a fair election because of what presidents do indeed Democrats found. Today's vote so gutting because they I saw it as tantamount to vote to acquit though. It took our friend. Peggy Noonan tonight to remind us at the end of this long day a lot can happen between now and Wednesday if we could stop time though John What is trump's relative power adjusted for hyperbole and inflation flation. If time stopped today I adjusted all you will. I say this without fear of a of a well. well-thought-out response contradicting it in a convincing way. He's a functionally a monarch. He's functionally the most politically powerful president bent in American history. Think about it. There's been a concerted and acknowledged to be a convincing effort to use the constitutional. There's no checks and balances to bring him to justice because of violations of what we believe to be the constitutional order and he if you say if time stops he has beaten that back. Not because of the facts but in spite of the facts and this isn't somebody's saying this from the opposition seats. This is what the senators who voted not to have witnesses have said. It's governor Alexander put in that statement. The cases proved but I'm not going to vote to remove. It is much more complicated. So let's think about it. The Franklin Franklin Roosevelt wins every state except Maine Vermont in nineteen thirty six and yet tries to pack Supreme Court and gets beaten back Abraham Lincoln suspended Habeas Corpus but feared forever In through the reelection of eighteen. Sixty four that he would lose. Find me a president. Then who has this. Who has had this much political power? That's why we ask the gentleman from Tennessee. The real gentleman from Tennessee to join us live tonight from Tennessee. Jon Meacham our thanks as always. We'll be talking to you along the way that is our broadcast for this evening for this weekend for that matter for this month. Thank thank you for being here with us have a good weekend. Good night from our NBC News Headquarters in New York. So you want to be president. I've watched many candidates for their party's nomination but only a few knew how to get it for this microphone. My podcast cast is about what it takes to get the nomination. Six episodes six timeless themes separate the few winners from any losers. The hope still lives and the Dream Tale never die. So you WANNA be President with Chris Matthews and M._S._N._B._C.. PODCAST search now wherever you're listening and subscribe I two episodes available now.

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