5 Episode results for "Secretary Jack Straw"
Cyprus rape case: British teen returns home but what now? Plus BAFTA nominations and Labour leader race
"Welcome to the leader the Evening Standard Daily News commentary and analysis. Podcast we hear four. PM make sure you never miss an episode by subscribing now from the Evening Evening Standard in London this leader Rape Hi. I'm David Malls land a British teenager convicted of lying about being gang-raped and Cyprus avoids jail the campaign continues to clear her name. Her legal team made it very clear. She's GonNa continue maintaining her innocence and take the case to appeal our correspondent. Kristen concur on what the nineteen year olds. Family will do now. The daughter is coming home. Also she was very much in her career by shadow. Chancellor John McDonnell she. You said you're likely to see me on the picket line as you are in the dispatch box political. Correspondents Afia Sleigh on the Labor Party leadership is Rebecca Loan. Bailey enters the running thing and the Golden Globes Aquafina one for the farewell other bodies are starting to get the time. It's faster his looking a little bit out of date the Evening Standard Film critic Charlotte Sullivan. Says Bafta can't get away with having no women on the best director Nomination List for seven years. They are taken from the evening. Standard's editorial column. This is the leader for the whole thing. Pick up the newspaper or had to stand a dot code UK Slash Comet Summit in a moment what next teenager who denies lying about being gang raped in. Cyprus protesters chanted and held we believe you placards outside Famagusta. I am Augusta District Court in Cyprus. As nineteen year old British woman arrived for sentencing. She'd been convicted of lying about being gang raped and says she was made to change ensured account by police facing possible jail. She was instead given a full month. Suspended sentence free to go a lawyer. Louis Power. QC says she'll be given a warm welcome. All May I say. Her chart strongly believed finding China's coming home to the UK. This has been an incredibly Saad and practice for young teenage guard. Once copy on various young girl. You like so many careered. It sprint came over to Cyprus. All the excitement of a young traveller MCI offspring attend university there after but the conviction in stands much to the fury of supporters in both the UK and Cyprus which has been under enormous political pressure. A cold correspondent. Kristen Cox been following the story. Just a she's jail but a name hasn't been cleared. Will this back to court. Well the British woman involved in this case maintain her innocence throughout the trial. She was convicted of lying about being raked. In the hotel in Napa that conviction still stands even though she wasn't sent to prison today by the what happens next is that her legal team made it very clear. She's going to continue maintaining her innocence and take the case to appeal. They've said that they're willing take the case. All the way up to Cyprus Supreme Court if necessary in order to clear her name however there was a warning today that if the case needs to go all the way to the bream court it could take up to four years to be finally resolved the had been reports the supreme president would partner. Is that still being talked about. I think what's likely is that. The presidential pardon was something that was discussed in the event that the judge decided he had to send the woman back to prison but since he decided on the suspended sentence while the immediate prison tub. I think it's much less likely that the presidential pardon will be used as it will be an extraordinary step take justin did. UK Government pressure affect the outcome. Atoll while frankly will will never really sure whether the government's pressure applied applied to the Cypriot authorities had any effect at all essentially. Today's sentencing was all down to the judge whether he decided that he needed to send this woman to prison straight away or whether he could impose a suspended sentence how is this case affected the health of the women involved. Well this is. The case involves a lot of claim and counter-claim whether there was a right home whether it was a false allegation was absolutely clear. UNSURELY cannot be downto- onto by any of the sides involved is that the woman in this case has been severely affected. Her mental health has deteriorated. I she was first. Held imprisoned is an inside presence. And then she was released on bail but not allowed to come home to Britain. She is set to suffered severely from post traumatic stress disorder. Mental Health has been severely affected by the The publicity around the case and pressure facing trial and and possible return to prison and so her lawyers have made it clear that a somebody who was once. A lively and gregarious gregarious woman is now shallow. What she used to be and is facing a future she has to pick up the pieces? See if she can return a two plans to go to university and basically rebuild her life in the wake of this very high profile and very very traumatic cakes for our next is really exciting raced. Watch actually we've got the dynamic of of what some might cool the hard left left but oh say there's this kind of fightback from what we would call moderates Labor leadership campaigns hotting up political correspondence of fear Sleigh on what's happening inside Loyd potty Rebecca Long Bailey is the sixth candidate to stand the leader of the Labor Party. The show business secretaries at key ally Jeremy Corbyn and is seen as a front runner. Although behind current bookie's favourite Sakir storm others is on the list include Jess Phillips Clive. Lewis Emily thornberry and Lisa. Nandy our editorial column thinks it'll be a fascinating contest and wonders who has what it takes to get the job. Let Sep- some tests. First and foremost does this person see their overriding mission to be getting Labor into government that that might seem like an obvious central objective any opposition but it was not the primary goal of Jeremy Corbyn and his fellow travelers lend mcklusky and John McDonnell donal. The second test is this. Do they look like a prime minister. It's a blink test. Can you imagine this person. Stepping off the helicopter in Camp David David or turning up at the Elise Palace and representing the country. We can already apply the second test we can look at the candidates and tell which few look like. PM PM in waiting. And the many who don't and frankly never will whether the candidates can also passed. The first test is something. The coming weeks can illuminate tate. But Tony the coming years will confirm. Let's tune in and watch political. Correspondents fierce lays been watching the candidates Sofia Rebecca Long Bailey's finally entered the race. You took a while. But it's not a big surprise. It's really not not a big surprise But it's certainly exciting though it's hotting the race. She announced her candidacy by writing in a Socialist magazine Could Tribune in which she vowed to go to. War With the political establishment and essentially. This is seen as continuing Corbin's project saying she's no continuity candidate but that's very much how she's being seen. She was very much shorter nurtured in her career by shadow. Chancellor John McDonnell and he's seen as part of being a member of that same project she said who is likely to see me on the picket line as you are in the dispatch box is interesting. You said there that. She launched a campaign and Tribune the Socialist magazine. So although denying that she's a continuity candidate it seems that she's very much trying to appeal to his base and I wonder if part of doing that is what appears to be this veiled attack on the likely favourite for the job kill stormer. She's a phrase triangulation and said they took their eye off the ball essentially actually neglecting the voters over their brexit policy. And with a bit of a fudge she said you know. I'm not taking a covert EVATT attack on Mr Starr. But I think that's how it'd be interpreted by everybody listening to that list morning. She's clearly seeing him as the main challenge earn Aaron he he all the debates started pushing towards the second referendum and. I suspect this is where she says. She can differentiate Chazelle from from him so we now have. Several candidates declared kissed dom there Rebecca Lamberti obviously Jess Phillips announced at the weekend. It's looking like a really really interesting time for the Labor Party right now isn't it yeah. It's really exciting. It's really exciting race to watch actually We've got you know. Obviously obviously the the the dynamic of of what some might cool the hard left The the the came in with Kuban. And there's some quite strong words leads this morning from Labor former Foreign Secretary Jack Straw. He said the party needed a continuity candidate like a hole in the head and said AH continuity candidate would be a suicide note for the party very very strong words. He even went as far to say that the party could actually collapse if it went mm for continuity candidate and he was also damning about antisemitism crisis which I think virtually all of the candidates have spoken about often condemned and said things that we haven't done enough but that will certainly be one to watch whether they can really root out that problem whether people believe they can retail that problem and we've got comprehensive coverage of the leadership campaign including profiles of the candidates online at Standard Yokota. UK now want to Bafta as best film and best director nomination categories have in common. There are no women N. either of them. That's in the year. Greta gerwig little little woman became a box office smash. There's been a bit of a backlash on social media are film critic Charlotte O'Sullivan Reviewed Little Women. Although you only gave it four stars Charlotte should it be on that best film list absolutely. It's a wonderful film very inventive. It's directed with such style. I think at the beginning. Maybe you can't tell especially if you don't know the book she's Greta Gerwig has actually changed so much about the book and playing sort of long game so the longer it goes on and you realize that she sort of toying with us and with our expectations and also for the commenting on what women could show you know back in the day but also now our need for romance and I sort of say you could compare it to Once upon a time in Hollywood yes it really deserves to be in the list I but if it goes on the list what comes off. Well I sorta think some mundy's nineteen seventeen though lovely is sort of a solid choice rather than an inspired one and he did so well at the Golden Globes so he hardly is a weak link in the eyes of the world but for me. That's that's who could have been left out. Apart from new women appearing are on the best directors list and the being no female helmed films in the best foams. There's a real lack of diversity atoll in after's released. Nominations isn't the especially in the best actress. Category it's quite shocking. In a way that given the strength think of women of Color in the acting field like for example. Cynthia River just gave this wonderful performance in Harriet has just been completely unacknowledged. Also lupita younger in US and Aquafina in the farewell this isn't asking for special favours. There's lots of wonderful performances but for me if you had what sort of take one out. Maybe Jessie Buckley and wild rose in America. It just did so well at the box office and simply a British actress. And it's kind of incredible bowl that she thought of one overall Americans who are very circumspect about British actress being chosen but after say that this is an industry wide problem. They're effectively actively just reflecting an issue within the movie industry itself. They can only judge the films that they're given is that fair. I think they can get away with that. Because at the Golden Globes for example Aquafina one for the farewell. So I think are the bodies are starting I'm to Get with get with the Times faster his looking a little bit out of date and looking at the the rest of the list and then nominations in all those categories. Are there any films in there that you're particularly glad to see this wonderful documentary. For Sammer made by Word Alkatiri she basically just filmed her life. Life in Aleppo as the bombs are falling while her husband doctor is trying to save lives while the little door to his growing up it is so personal snow and it is so shocking. It's been nominated in the categories and I think it will come away with something. I suspect maybe in the best film not an English language or maybe bought best documentary so yes nice that that's getting recognition and another movie that I know that you like Shala this parasite which is being recognized to hasn't it. Yes that's almost my favourite film of all of all of them. It's by Bong Juno and it's a South Korean. I guess you could call it comedy. Also very a bloody and it's just had my heart beating all the way if palace won best picture and best director. This will probably be the best year if a diversity that we've had CETACEA South Korean director winning would sort of changes the whole image of the pastors. And that's the leader subscribe through your favorite podcast provider and also give our Odeon. He's Billiton's just ask your smart speaker for the news from the Evening Standard. The leader his back at four PM tomorrow.
Amanpour: Jack Straw, Jamie Bell, Daryle Lamont Jenkins and Matt Murray
"Thanks for listening to this show and you can let us know what you think about it. At pod thoughts dot com that's pod thoughts dot com and thanks again for listening and welcome to Amanpour. Here's what's coming up. As Foreign Minister Boris Johnson's loose lips sunk the hopes of British citizen imprisoned in Iran now as Prime Minister Kenny handle the crisis with Iran in the Persian Gulf. I I talked to the former foreign secretary. Jack Straw then based on a true story of redemption. A new film portrays how a Neo Nazi scrubbed his facial tattoos and turned his back knock on the white supremacist movement with the help of a black social activist and the Wall Street Journal Editor in Chief Matt Murray in conversation with our Walter Isaacson. Welcome to the program everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London a momentous week in British politics so one prime minister leave Downing Street and another move in Boris Johnson's cabinet ministers have been appointed now taking a radical right turn at the very top of government with hard line brexit is put in all the senior positions and and in his first address to the House of Commons. He spoke with his usual bombast promising his premiership was a fresh start be trusted Mr Speaker. Today is the first day of a new approach which will end with our exit from the E._U.. On the thirty first of October then I hope we can have a friendly and constructive relationship constitutional equals as friends and partners in facing the challenges that lie ahead needing the e you will be the toughest and most dramatic peacetime British operation but Johnson also has serious issues to deal with even further afield such as the crisis with Iran and the tit for tat seizure of oil tankers. Jack Straw is a former British foreign secretary and in two thousand one off the nine eleven he became the first top minister to visit Iran since the one thousand nine hundred seventy nine revolution his intense study of this vital yet. Vaccination is the subject of his latest spoke the English job understanding Iran and why distrust Britain it looks at the two countries complicated relationship over many decades and I've been speaking to Straw about this indispensable guide and the role Britain has played in shaping raping Iran's domestic and foreign policy former Foreign Secretary Jack Straw welcome to the program. You have really built quite a name for yourself in that. You are one of the rare Iran experts in the field of public servants servants who actually have to deal with the country. You've now written this book and we're going to delve into it but I want to ask you. What do you make of the current crisis which is essentially tit for tat seizing of tankers and particularly around seizing the British flagged tanker? Yeah well what I make of that is absolutely classic Iranian approach. They're up against the wall not least because of president trump's sanctions. They're pretty desperate. They know the risks of getting into a full-scale war which they would lose straight away so they're doing their best to calibrate things. I think followed night follow the day that wants. The tanker. In Gibraltar was arrested. There was bound to be retaliation. I mean it was it was inevitable and that was apparently an Iranian tanker taking oil to the sanctions to Syria. I mean this goes back of course to Donald Trump's decision to withdraw from from the J._C._p.. I happen to think that that was the wrong decision. I've on the same page as president trump in not wanting Iran to build a nuclear weapon. I think we all are and there are big risks about Iran's real intentions are but I just think it was crazy for him to pull out of this deal which guaranteed that Iran effectively could not build a nuclear weapons capability for fifteen years and replace it by nothing directly and one of the things that made it more dangerous in fact pulling out of the world. The former name is Jay C._P._O.. But the Iran nuclear deal has actually potentially Lee made it more likely that Iran could if there's any doubt about that made it more dangerous region and one of the reasons is down that is because it has shifted the balance of politics six in Iran and now I know there are people here as well as in the U._S.. People like John Bolton for example in the U._S.. Who Take the view that this is an entirely marchioness government though no arguments inside the government and it's all one lot controlled by took to quote them but it's much more complicated than that so what you're basically saying is that the U._S. is alienating the pragmatic core of the Iran and not even recognizing that there is a pragmatic like my take wing and empowering the most hardline which is the Iranian one of the great ironies of this is that the hardliners in the Revolutionary Guards around how many were always opposed to the nuclear deal so yes they what it says here we have a Faustian pact between president trump and the hardliners and other miscalculation by John Bolton and president trump was that if they impose sanctions which in turn have unquestionably caused huge damage to the Iranian economy to living standards for most Iranians this would cause uprising and unrest but it's not like that because just as when the Iran Iraq war took place the hardliners were able to take control so yet again they've been able to control take control and appeal amongst other things to national pride a national unity so let me ask you because you know you hugh a former foreign secretary you had to deal with you on seventy in the post nine eleven period and and all of that and now a British former foreign secretary is Prime Minister Boris Johnson and you've got Javad Zarif? The Iranian farmers having tweeted that I congratulate my form account about Boris Johnson on becoming U._k.. Prime Minister Iran on does not seek confrontation but we have fifteen hundred miles of Persian Gulf coastline these are waters and we will protect them. What do you think this is going to lead to? What does that mean? What does this Boris Johnson know how to deal with this in fairness to the guy? Even if I've been in the story about here I wouldn't have voted for him. He handled Iran. This foreign secretary okay he took advice is to talk to him from time to time about this and he stuck with the deal and was very clear about. I hope very much that he does not respond respond to blandishments from President trump that will give you a trade deal but you split away from the Europeans that so far so good so far tankers are concerned. This is very straightforward. The Iranians even in good times transactional US eight my tanker. We'll take yours so they have to be a deal at some stage. It may be it over a period of weeks where it's agreed with on both released you brought up the fact the the current new Prime Minister Boris Johnson is kind of really hitching his star to the trump administration he desperately wants a breakout of the box trade deal and quickly to set the post brexit stage however it doesn't looks like the Americans are responding necessarily in kind over trade all over defending the seizure of their allies tanker in the Gulf. This is what Secretary of State Pompeo said so the responsibility in the first instance falls to the United Kingdom to take take care of their ships <hes> but Brian you know this story <hes> this isn't because of American sanctions because the accuracy the the leadership in Iran their revolutionary zeal to conduct tear around the world for now four decades continues news. Is that a vote of backing from their strongest ally what what is meant to make of that well. It's not an easy answer and so far as trade is concerned Christian. President trump can promise anything he wants in a trade deal but it's not for him to deliver that is very much in the hands of Congress and Congress will be defending members of Congress their own constituents their districts their states interest. I say we WANNA deal on some products fine but senators from Iowa congressman from other farming states will try and drive a very hard bargain. That's how it is and no country in the world defends its own interests its own national interests more than does America so we gotta be completely straightforward about this back to Iran Boris Johnson and then the historic trails that you track in in the English job you send Boris. Johnson did a fairly good job and took. Doc Advice as foreign secretary and like all of Europe and most of the world he agreed with Iran nuclear deal that it was not perfect but it was good however he is accused of having completely bungled the issue of a British citizen captured convicted jailed in Iran Naza Gerry Radcliffe and he just played right into the hardliners hands calling her journalist when she said she was there to visit family and she wasn't there for professional reasons. I guess again does this affiliate with confidence there to Boris Johnson's answer and the Boris Johnson was handling then nuclear deal dossier did okay on as an eighty Zari Radcliffe he went to that hearing of the select committee haven't read his brief hadn't thought about it was busking and the result of that and it just happens to be fact he's made it much much more difficult for the decent people in the system to argue given favor of her release because he said out of his own mouth she was there as a journalist and do a better than anybody that safar as the Iranian hardliners are concerned for journalists read spy. That's what they think so it can say exactly how much more difficult made for Nazanin but it might view to certainly delayed release than the other thing is going to be really careful about is if he wants his Nazanin rid directive to be released it doesn't jump into bed with president trump so to speak some some would say he did jump into bed and did accede to President Trump's demands when he threw a very distinguished British diplomat and ambassador to the USA Okay Kim Derek under the bus after what we understand were very sort of conventional wisdom assessments of the trump administration particularly policy towards Iran. I agree with that. It was a pretty pretty shameful and anybody who's been in Washington for more than five minutes will know that senior Republicans say exactly the same thing and worse about President trump now. Let's get to audiobook here the English job because you talked a moment ago about the relatively good guys in the Iranian in the Iranian system because many in the United States don't believe that there is such division I mean I know from your writing that a lot of it comes from the Post Post nine eleven moment your encounter your visit there with Dan Reform President Mohamed Khatemi the support that the Khatemi government gave to the United States and to the West and the sympathy after nine eleven describe what the situation it was a bit of a turning point then well it was president how to me after nine eleven saw his opportunity and the best them so that word and as you will recall there were spontaneous demonstrations in Tehran in sympathy for the victims of nine eleven with a torchlight processions so there was a great opportunity there which prisoner how to me so for Iran to help the US and then to reset its relationships ships over time <hes> with the United States and with the West and that was why I went out within two weeks to talk to president how to me about that on our behalf but indirectly on behalf of the U._S. as well there are lots of Baxter's negotiations between the U._S.. And Iran great deal of Cooperation Iranians gave huge amount of intelligence corporation to the international alliance that actually removed the Taliban from Afghanistan Afghanistan without which it would have been much much more difficult and things were relatively set fair until you had this disastrous few lines in President Bush's State of the Union speech at the end of January two thousand and two where he talked about an axis of evil involving North Korea Iraq and Iran and I've talked to David trump. He was the speechwriter about this. I mean he just said well. I put it in it was alliterative. It was a few lines. I didn't expect it to survive other. People Derive says in her memoirs that she was on President Bush will take completely by surprise by the reaction to this Colin Powell said that when it came around to the State Department nobody's spotted it is extraordinary but in the end after some uh-huh weeks of argument it was the hardliners who wanted said you can never trust the American you know the the Great Satan and although Iran continued to give some assistance to us in Afghanistan because it was in their interests there was a great opportunity lost there and we tried to get it back with the nuclear negotiations that I was involved in it started with my French and German counterparts so given this I mean really rocky absolutely terrible relationship between Iran and the West is gone back a long time. I mean even nineteen fifty-three. They blame the U._K.. For overthrowing their democratically-elected Prime Minister and they see the U._S. and U._K.. Just as perpetual superpower interferes and I want to finish our interview on this personal story you went back with your wife and friends you having a personal holiday tourism to Tehran Iran in two thousand fifteen what what happened well in Tehran. It was fine except that I kept being spotted on the street residing in my district my constituency we're tied was totally unexpected and people come out to me saying Jackie store and asking for selfish and then between Yazd and share us this as they six we stopped off at a famous revered Cyprus tree four thousand years old just look at it and there were six guys waiting for me all dressed in black and they had prepared a two page very detailed document about all the crimes that Britain had had committed since the middle of the nineteenth century. If you please and said Brits weren't welcome and I particularly as representative of the cutting Fox was not welcomed there and what was I doing the could possibly be holiday that land lead being faced with a hard stop on a motorway on the highway where four got big guys get out of a cardinal who the devil they were out drivers removed three of these guys encounter a pistol get into out there who get off high-speed. We're finally toll to transfer into a different people carrier and taken to a completely different hotel turned out to be the provincial police on our side on our side to protect Texas from the people who put the declaration together who were the siege you are attached to the Revolutionary Guards and this is the only country in the world where you get police protection against criminals or terrorists which may it's normal but against other parts also the same state it happened again in Isfahan in Isfahan we finally said we'll have to this the short but we were <hes> despite police protection it was unsurprisingly the Revolutionary Guards cy picks the proced- who won but that also is a parable about the split nature of of this government that the system of the system Jacksonville. Thank you very much indeed also of the English job. Thank you very much important reflections there on a vital region that remains remains volatile. Today guys are terrible taking care of their health. 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We turn now to a complicated tale of redemption coming from a broken home. Brian widened found community in the Neo Nazi finlander social group. He was one of the most violent members immersed in a lifetime of hate and crime prime. Unfortunately it's a story that's all too common. Many young men are drawn into the clutches of extremism often because they're looking for a sense of family and belonging but widener made the bold decision eventually to turn his life around it wasn't an easy feat considering that he's covered or he was from head to toe in racist tattoos enter Darryl Lamont Jenkins a social activist known for helping neo-nazis leave their circles wideness story has now been turned into a film skin with an unrecognizable Jamie Bell in the lead. It's a far cry from his breakout role Billy Elliot and here's a clip business you take all the stuff off and I'm still I've been speaking to actor Jamie Bell and the actual Darrel Jenkins who join me both from New York welcome to the program Jamie Bell and Darryl Lamont Jenkins thanks so this is truly a film that you have to have a strong constitution to watch. I mean it is very difficult very very role and quite violent both emotionally and actually physically I mean Jamie. Let's face it you come from Billy Elliot in rocket man and all sorts of different kinds of of productions in the past. How tough was it for you to take on this this role? I certainly my most challenging role that I've ever done I think when you portraying someone who who is so vastly different from who you are as a person so intensely wildly off color as as as this character is morally <hes> to begin with it is challenging. There's also kind of the physical transformation for the role in it'd be sitting in the chair for many hours a day to have all the tattoos on adding twenty pounds of where it all that stuff I think is actually more easy to deal with the hottest thing for me to understand was the intense level of detachment that this character had detachment from compassion to tach moment from empathy detachment from love walking around with that every day for six weeks was just very unpleasant okay so let's bring on our first clip. This is just now Jamie you playing Brian and your wife life with her three girls. Thank you chuck all you were going back to the next one of these massive this saw last Gig. Why why am I kissing around this? We're just here for a paycheck okay so Jamie described now Brian this white supremacist full of tattoos and his wife this. Is this the turning point when you meet Julie and she decides she can't go to another one of these gatherings with you. Well Bryan widener is at this point where we meet him. As a career Nazi. That's all he's kind of really done. <hes> he was kind of indoctrinated into this ideology and that that was his life for life of intense drinking heavy drinking violence bigotry hatred and then he does come across this Danny McDonald plays a Julie in the film and she has three three girls as you just saw and I think there is the the spark here that begins his journey out as well as his relationship with you Dow <hes> I think he sees stability. I think he he sees in these children. The opportunity to <hes> be lighter be someone who maybe can have have compassion and and that he challenged himself to to look inside but it's the row for me is a man who is completely unconscious coming to being a wick can reawakening and Darryl is certainly a huge part of that but also him becoming parents to these children is also an intensely motivating factor for him challenging him to see does he have these these things inside of him and could not ever be any different. It's very relevant conversation and now I want to clip with Darryl's character and this is where you're explaining to Brian. Jamie bell the cost and the modalities of getting out of this life only help the kids need youthful cooperation staying. There ain't no deal without it. I just want to know where we're GONNA. Go where we're GONNA live for. The what about the girls are all classified okay. I won't know unless you what about school girls being will be taken care of. I promise Meshu that it's been hard time especially pseudo. That's the actor Mike Colter playing you. What is it what what motivates it's you daryl in real life to jump in here and to try to save a character that take him out of this toxic brew well? The fact remains that they are still human beings. They don't start off being big because they don't start off being hateful and I would also extend that to people who are in gangs. People are in colts and such the thing is however is where to we come in how to we help them in truth. It all depends on them. I remember Jaime talking about in another interview how this is not a redemptive story and it's not there is it's all on it's all on Brian in this is all on what he wants to do and where he wants to go with his life all I can be as a guiding light. I mean in the beginning of the movie. We're not the best of friends we are at odds to underscore a fact and that's the kind of thing I have to deal with in my day to day when I'm dealing with these folks either I am fighting them or I am helping them. It all depends on that person. Well really interesting. You are in a way fighting them as well because you have an activist intention you have a professional organization Shen that actually takes videos and post them and kind of names and shames and puts them out there when you can get to their meetings so I guess how did Daryl you. How did you enter Brian's life? What was the catalyst for getting getting? Jamie Bryan out of this well curiously enough. It was actually Julie in real life. It was Julie that contacted us and says look. We're trying to get out trying to figure out how to do it. She put me on the phone with Brian after a few conversations with her and that was that started the conversation I haven't had any problems talking to Brian since that day as he will probably tell you beforehand. This wouldn't have worked that he was still deepen inlanders social club as they were called and I'm straight up ANTIFA so there would have been fifth fisticuffs. If we saw each other in the street I would have been concerned about the damage she would have done others so bill that would have been where we were at. Were it not for our conversation where we're not for him and Julie saying we want out. We want to advance ourselves. In a different direction. You brought the opposite of detachment into Brian's life right just briefly. Tell me about how you reintroduced him into his humanity. Well basically one of the things that was important about my initial relationship. Relationship with Brian was the fact that we didn't talk politics. We didn't talk about our disagreements in that particular swear we just talked music and we talked about what it is that really bonded us and connected us and it and it wasn't even a conscious effort on my part. It wasn't a tactic or anything like that. It's who I am and apparently it was who he is and because of that because I was able to relate to him on some sort of level yeah I think it went a long way into him being able to grow himself out of this world that he was living in for thirteen years Brian is completely marked by his tattoos in return for information formation. It looks like you found donor to remove at least some of the tattoos and we see this depicted in a twenty eleven documentary called erasing hate and I just WanNa play a little clip of the real Brian and the real pain he went through. True President the club called me up and said I had to make a choice between either my family or them scar on your base head. I was a little intimidated by both of them would come at all frequently more painful than the going on matter part of the process don't like to see everything has a price but just to remind us. He would tattoo himself every time he committed. I mean essentially a hate crime crime <hes> and considering how many tattoos there he had on his body or and still has on his body that will give you an idea how bad he was. He was one of the top enforces of the vendor. The Social Club wanted to ask these individuals out is there I have friends of mine who are still scared of him today so for him to make this transformation over the past ten eleven years is remarkable to me. I think is a testament to him. I heard that it was really medically difficult if not impossible to remove every single one of them from all over his body you can see his arms and his torso and everything is painted and I think what did it take two years. It took about three years now now. He's still has some tattoos but they're not any more racially sensitive tattoos of course <hes> so he still has some on his body. It was just taken too much for that but I was there for for <hes> one of the sessions and I can just tell you it isn't it wasn't it was definitely intent. I mean listen when you choose to do that. Your body <hes> cover it with hit <hes> to in an attempt to intimidate people scare people to isolate yourself from the world old and then you change your mind <hes>. That's you know you put yourself in that position <hes> I I'm so glad that we use his treatments as milestones within the phone that I it was important for me that the character actually goes through some form of physical pan. I really do think that that was kind of a crucial element to me and I know you can see it. He's he's he's <hes> he's doing what he what he chose but <hes> but he's also been given a gift you know when when I went to meet him <hes> to research the role and spent a Lotta time with him and when you look at his face if you didn't know beforehand that this was there you would never know <hes> I mean you can kind of see a little skin discoloration here that but you just wouldn't know so he has been given an opportunity to to reclaim his life and change his life forever and I think when he looks in the Mirror he reckons with the guilt of the things he's done and and he must realize that he's been giving it just an incredible opportunity to kind of start again and what does he do now. What what is his life where is he? I mean you know he's still dealing with life as he's still going through that redemptive process and he's somebody that is still also learning. He's still learning about life outside of what he knew for thirteen years and we talk every now again and we're always joking around about this and that <hes> not just about music but about <hes> about the various things that we see going on and we definitely getting a kick out of being in this element he's been on set with us too. I should say he's been on said and he has helped us along and me and him both help hoped movie along to understand what it is. We were doing out there because look the fact that it's coming out now means that it is more than just a movie. It's also a political and cultural signpost to the Times that we live in and I wonder underway you both feel that way. That's just play a mash up of trump and some of the other politicians over the last week as far as I'm concerned if you hate our country if you're not happy here you could leave. He's launching being a plainly racist attack. This is the agenda of white nationalist. This country belongs to you and it belongs to everyone. Every single member of this institution Democratic and Republican should join us in condemning the president's racist tweets. I think those tweets are racist and xenophobic no. I don't think it's racist to say. Was it racist to say love it or leave. It stadium was packed. It was a record crowd of ten times as you know those are credible people those who are credible Patriots Whoa I mean even now listening to that send her back and then calling them patriots. I mean it just goes to show how important this film and the message about it is so way in then how how much do you think it's relevant to today. It's what we've seen. This last week in this country is it looks like it's ripped from the pages of the research I was doing you know fifty sixty years ago it's to me it's really terrifying. I hope this film is an urgent fire. Alarm Bell A wakeup call that this is is still happening is exactly why I do what I do why I and others have been doing this for as long as we have I mean I think that while we're showing clips of our politicians clips about trump in the end is not so much much about those politicians but those people in Rowdy for example. It's about us. It's about how we're going to relate to each other. We are going to be the ones who solve our own problems. Those politicians are there because we put them there and they will leave because because we pull them out. That's how that's going to work what I hope this movie does is show people why that needs to happen and what kind of world we are creating for ourselves and how we can keep it from going in the wrong direction well. I hope that I hope this benefits that conversation in the long run I think everybody I assume everybody hopes that as well but I must say that you know the daily stormer won't many of these you know the eight Chan and all the rest of it. I mean they are really loving all this trump stuff. Here's what you know. The the most highly traffic neo Nazi website. It's founder said Man President Trump's twitter account as being pure fire violate. This might be the funniest thing he's ever tweeted. This is the kind of white nationalism we elected him for and on China uses said it is okay for him not to want to be swamped by Brown scum that clearly despise him these invaders of step what out of line making demands of us they don't have to the way we run things they can go the hell back yeah. It's up to us but this is this is online jenning up this kind of stuff exactly it's online Andrew England has shown his face in public in years and whoever's on read it is anonymous the fact that they have to resort to just being as far away from us as possible to avoid the conflicts to avoid that opposition is a testament to us is a testament to what it is we want and what it is. We will reject when we see it so when you see it online be ready for it <hes> combat it but remember that we are still decent people. We are still want a good place. We just have to stay there. Look skin is not just about hey to neo Nazis. I mean the people who are in these groups often talk about family of being feeling of validated feeling that somebody's out there to bring them in when they feel alienated and that's not an unusual thord we just had on our program a young a young writer Djamil Giovanni Who's written y young men and he told Michelle Martin what drew him to gang gang culture as a youth side he was just rigged against people like me. I didn't think that I had like there was no meritocracy in my mind so what's the point of working at school. If you think people don't want you to be successful. They're not going to give you a job. When you go to the mall? You're followed around security guards. It all added up to this feeling of I'm not destined for success here. So why bother so daryl I mean the alienation and the feeling of validation and family in some of these hate-filled groups yeah and I think that there there was a parallel between as I pointed out before whether or not you go into white power crews or whether or not you go into some garden variety street gang. If you get yourself involved in the cult of your radicalized in some fashion you can go in that direction in or you can go on a more positive direction joined a positive church or what have you. I think it all depends on how much we are reaching out to those that are feeling that baggage feeling like their lives aren't worth a damn. That's really who we're dealing with. Initially one of the important things in the movie is is that there's a character named Gavin and he said that the reason why he was in the movie. I don't want to spoil the. I don't think it's spoiler or anything like that but he said the reason why he joined the group was because he was hungry. He was in the street when they found them and I spoke to somebody about that scene a while back and that took their breath away because that's. That's exactly what it is. We're dealing with what it's remarkable story at a remarkable time so Dr Lamont Jenkins founder of the one people's project and Jamie Bell who plays a Brian Witness. Thank you very much indeed for joining us. Thank you thank you. It's uncomfortable but surely much watch film. That's out in selected cinemas across the United States today. Our next guest is the Wall Street Journal's Editor in Chief Matt Murray taking over the paper in two thousand Eighteen Murray has since been in working tirelessly to win back the dwindling public trust in the news media he sat down with our Walter Isaacson to discuss the ongoing challenges facing journalists today and celebrating one hundred thirty years of the Wall Street Journal Imprint Print Matt. Thank you for being with us. Thanks Walter for having if you'RE I. It's great to be here with you. I really appreciate it. You know the Wall Street. Journal has one of the most trusted name in media according to surveys but in some ways that's like being the highest mountain Louisiana. The trust in the media's collapsed so much. Why is that happening and how do you fight that? It's a challenge and I think the media has to take very seriously that we have a major major. Trust problem among ourselves so yes as you say. I'm happy Eh in most surveys we are at the top right near the top as trusted but the whole media has I mean look I think it's things we know. Technology has has driven more polarization and how we consume content and awareness of content I I think that's been a real challenge for us. Obviously lots of politicians and executives the president being the foremost example but not the only example have found that they can just beat about the media for whatever we write deny anything truthful that they don't like doc generally of course often the rule is the more truthful it is the more us yet and and that's been accepted by people in this polarized world and look I personally think to some extent there. There are self inflicted wounds here that we have to take seriously on our part you know there's been a move and certainly mainstream daily news reporting of the kind that the Wall Street Journal does there's been a move toward so embracing audience data that I think we're getting too opinionated. Sometimes there are news. We're confusing opinion in fact too often other strong points of view and a lot of stories that I think are aimed often with good intentions to engage in audience but have the risk of only speaking to part of the audience. It's out there and that leaves. Some of the rest of the audience feeling alienated one more thing I'll say is I think when we make mistakes and we do. Journalism is a human enterprise. We as an industry have to be very forthright about them own up to them. Talk about them. Admit them explain what we do. We're not very transparent. We are suffering the same kind of loss of faith and institutions that every institution that suffering but we're not always helping ourselves. Do you think that the media has moved away from a concept of objectivity ability and desire or belief that you can actually do objective reporting. I think corners of it have I think corners of it had and look I want to be clear that there's always of course room for a very robust media environment with you know opinion journalism and point of view and the different elements but I think that in the core where you want objective straight news and you declare that that's your intention I think at times get it's been harder to find that understandably in some ways because some the pressures of today and the challenges of covering the president sometimes test everybody's objectivity and and the challenge of being in the middle and finding an audience in the middle some ways is harder these days and then I might have been in the past but I do you think also there are people who think a point of view is truthful that the idea of objectivity is a bit of a canard that nobody's truly objective so embrace your point of view. You don't believe that do I think if you declare that that's what you're doing and you admit that you have it and in your your transparent about it except that the challenge I have is if you're going to be objective and play it straight. You've got to really strive to do that which includes an awareness of your own bias and how you accommodate them you said that at the age of trump and trump himself makes it harder to just stay on the straight and narrow and be objective why's that because he likes to put us on the playing field the press now not the Wall Street Journal particularly but he likes to make an issue of us and he has a habit sometimes sometimes a as we know of saying things and then when they're reported saying I didn't say that or I was mischaracterized or wanting to use US as a hobby horse and I think it's a game that he plays with us and so the challenge I think is to cover him fair- fairly and accurately accurately hold your ground but look of presence of times wants to pull you down there in the mud and I think others are learning that habit from him a little bit. Your predecessor was sometimes criticised within the euro nunes room and sort of Tamp Tamp Down Morale People said by edging and trying to keep it more on the more pro-trump or not as anti-trump as the rest of the press. Do you feel that something you have to wrestle with and how do you handle that. Does your staff sometimes push push you and say hey how come we can't use the word racist used the word lies. I think that the first six or six months or a year of the president's term provoked a lot of discussion a lot of newsrooms and caused a lot of challenges for everybody and he's such a unique figure in some ways one of the challenges sometimes of course he has a habit of of tweeting outrageous things and then you go right the tweet but you don't want to take your eye off the policy over here so you don't always want to give attention to every every outrageous thing look. He's a master of media. He probably understands the things that punch media's buttons better than certainly any president we've seen in our lifetimes. I think he's he's good at it so he knows he knows what organizations will do to get clicks and readers and T._v.. Viewers he's good at that so I think everybody Russell with that and I think I was deputy at the Wall Street Journal so I was part of it. I think it was about all of us and not just my predecessor so my judgment is we did pretty well in the end on not falling into those traps and I think actually I'm not gonNA name. I think some people went a little far in the other direction of sort of the new trump yes as you know very anti-trump all the time in a very in a way that was not oh I don't know that the reporting always backed up the the assertions I would say you know my predecessor also was the one who signed and often the Michael Cohen Coverage and supported that and ran the early stories on on Michael Cohen which led to the entire investigation on Cohen. It's still the only reporting line from any major publication. That's implicated the president directly in the Commission of a crime. We won the Pulitzer Prize for it this year and I've been in the job and I get credit for that but my predecessor deserve Jerry deserves the credit for a lot of that work so I think what we were going through was being felt in other newsrooms to give me an example recently of a meeting add to have in the newsroom where you had to sort something out and figure out. How do we play this straight? Yeah we spent a lot of time last week. When the President <hes> sent out his initial tweets on the squad about whether or not the term them racist which was a big discussion in a lot of a lot of newsrooms and you know it was a very typical kind of a trump tweet where he walked right up to the line didn't overtly necessarily in the eyes of some people overtly used explicitly racist language? Some people characterize it as xenophobic because go back where you came from has been used for Irish and Germans airman and others in American history the first day we described headline on the front page as racially charged. I think we actually went furthest of the big papers in putting race the headline on the first day but there was a lot of debate and discussion of the journalism world about whether to call it racist and how far to push it and and I think people felt good about how we did it but we continue to have a discussion with reporters in our Washington Bureau and talk about it amongst ourselves you there are people of Color in the newsroom that we talked to every single person I solicited and ask what they thought they said for my experience. It's not even a close call. I've heard that all my life and meaning in race it's racist and and and so no we ended up using the word to describe the tweets and this came about after a lot of discussion and debate amongst ourselves and so I think you have to have a newsroom that has those kind of conversations as as as you run into these issues as the world of today the American economy booming for almost a decade get there's this big populous and resentment backlash or feeling of discomfort. Why is that well? I think the middle class and the working class in the United States was battered for a long time even prior to the Financial Crisis Economics editor at the time was writing stories which we weren't always we didn't. Not Time how how how spot on he was about how much of the economy in the off year in office and the Bush years fueled by credit and home equity loans people borrowing but they're real wages and real growth had really stagnated around one thousand nine hundred ninety nine and then of course you throw in China and it's clear that as the Chinese economy took off a lot of jobs did go overseas to China did go overseas to Mexico and something was happening there then you get ed the the the the meltdown hits all of us unemployment shoots very high a lot of people lost their houses. A lot of people took big hits on on their credit and I think there are just deep scars deep traumas on a lot of people out there that are still with us. I think there's little doubt that a lot of people who are feeling battered five years ago or feeling much better today and should be feeling much better today but I think there's still here of contingency about some of it for for some people and they're still making ground that was lost eve off and said that Rupert Murdoch doesn't interfere with the away of guiding the editorial product but what sort of guidance what sort of involvement does Rupert Murdoch and for that matter Newscorp Path and setting the direction of the Wall Street Journal so since I've been in the job and then when I've interacted with them I have to say he genuinely have been hands off refund guiding on any stories or story selection or or how to play particular stories I really no guidance on that and in fact have been told explicitly. You're the editor your decision rupert does have strong feelings. It's about about having a newspaper and a product. That's lively and engaging so you know he's a believer that often are stories for too long and that people lose interest quickly and that you can see it in the data so say what you want to say get out and move on on. I think we've been owned by News Corp.. I've been there twenty five years and we've been owned by NEWSCORP for almost twelve years now so you know the Wall Street Journal did not really use much art prior to their acquisition and and they have big thoughts about photography and creative use of art in the engaging visual sensibility which we've developed by leaps and bounds in the last twelve years so you know thinking about the drama photography splash of the front page age those kinds of things sort of the component classic opponents of an exciting newspaper that way so I'll hear thoughts on that and and being engaging grabbing attention getting making people want to sit down and really read you and compel their attention and not taking taking it for granted. I mean there's a lot of that which is useful in translating Tau. We think about the digital product as well the same way. Let me ask about a few things that could were you and you tell me which were the federal deficit. I think it's worrying. I think we've crossed just a point here to where there isn't anybody in either party really holding up the flag for the deficit. I think both parties have crossed the line in their in their openness to building the deficit up more and more and more and I think that will catch up to US eventually a trade skirmish with China you know I think we're seeing some effects of trade skirmish right now on us. I think probably will get a deal of some kind of might be a more modest deal not a transformative deal and I think I think we've actually absorbed so far a little better than I would have predicted a year ago cautious on making predictions but obviously extended kind of very distant the ongoing trade battle would have real effects on on both countries and I think we probably are in some ways maybe with good reason we probably are headed to a permanent recalibration of the economic relationship between the United States and China even if we get a deal <hes> here on immediate trade stuff crisis with Iran war with the run and maybe an oil crisis that would come from that. I I mean I I hate to sound cavalier about something that I think is a risk. I think the risk with Iran is probably more of an accidental thing that happens that sets off a larger thing but I think right now. I think there's a kind of a calculated escalation gamesmanship going on here that probably resolvable in some way at some point and what other things were you about the economy. What what are you sort of telling reporters? Hey we better keep an eye on this but I think that you know I think a lot of people are still left out of the prosperity of the United States and the economy in the United States today in ways that <hes> not all of us fully understand fully realized you know people have been I was reading this book dignity that just came out by Chris Arnold who I don't know but it's getting some attention and you think about some of the other books think pieces about what they call the trump voter and some of that can be a bit simplistic but nonetheless you know. There's no doubt that there's a lot of hollowed out towns in America that were prosperous towns <hes> thirty or forty years ago. There's no doubt that there's a lot of people without access to proper educational systems are opportunities to move up and you feel very left out who vulnerable in the country <hes> and at the same time I think you've Got New York working in San Francisco and other cities getting more and more concentrated by and more and more expensive and in some ways harder and harder to break into for many people and harder and harder to understand and I worry about at that divide as many people do who are much smarter than I am about it a lot. I think you know are we really in a place of two economies for many people I think I think that's something that should concern all of us. How do we bring more Americans on board or you know I? I've heard people talk about this. If you could raise everybody's credit score on the United States fifty points and you can bring them more into the economy would be great for them and more prosperity for all of us and I worry that it we don't know how to do that. We don't have answers for those people anymore and and I think some of our politics reflects maybe sometimes a sense that there's a finite pie and we're grabbing for pieces of it. I I don't know how we make the PIE bigger for everybody. I think that's a concern you father became a monk and you will get your book stands ended up priest. Tell me how that affected your view of your purpose in life. It's a it's an interesting in question so yeah my mom my parents were both writers <hes> which which had an influence on me and then my mother died <hes> when I was seven and my father <hes> retired early from his job in the government I grew up in Washington and he felt he had a calling and you became religious. <hes> I was in high school and after I went to college he ended up going to central Illinois to take vows in the monastery with the seminary for four years and became a priest spent the last eighteen years of his life as a as a priest in this area. You know I guess I guess the ways that it influenced me in ways I wasn't conscious of always at the time was I'm a strong desire that my father had to have purpose and meaning in life and to pursue meaning to actively pursue meaning and particularly to do something meaningful engage with other people and really over time in the service of other people you know my father was an extraordinarily we generous person to others with his time far more than I am far more than I am and I think the example he said for me of putting others first and sort of pursuing what what for him was the ultimate it meaning and importance was a pretty strong example for me to try to you know not just think about the what you're doing today or the immediate task in front of you but about doing something meaningful and really always remembering that you're working with human beings in front of you whatever the circumstances whether you're writing hard stories about them which we do a lot times at the journal whether you're having meetings with them whether they're working for you there your bosses try I always think about the personal human interaction and the meaning of two individuals coming together so so. I hope I've got some of that from him that thank you very much. Thank you appreciate it. Thank you and that's till now remember you can always listen to a podcast see US online at Amanpour Dot Com and you can follow me on instagram and twitter. Thanks for watching and goodbye from London Taylor Hi. I'm bill kristol feeling.
Tuesday 2 April
"You're listening to the monocle tiny first broadcast on the second of April twenty thousand nineteen monocle twenty four. Live resort house in London. This is the daily I'm Paul born coming up. I have nothing to hide. This was a hopes. This was a witch. I have absolutely nothing to hide. And I think a lot of things are coming out with respect to the other side. But I have a lot of confidence in the attorney general Donald Trump and system report cleared him of wrongdoing. But how anyone has seen it tonight out his rivals plan to get hold of a copy while Mexico's president from sister act Trump threat to shop the US border because of the flow of migrants in the UK and of the front day of Brexit crisis talks now there's yet another new plan. I know the song who are so fed up with delay. And then resolve uments that they would like to leave with no deal next week. I've always been clear that we could make successive no deal in the long term. But leaving with the deal is the best solution. So we will need a further extension of article fifty one that is short. Sel which ends when we pass a deal, you know, Jerry, the president finally bows to pressure on resigns. We'll get the latest plus the political rows over Australia's public broadcaster and the top stories from across Asia own in the next hour on the medical Dany live from London monocle twenty four. Oh, welcome to today's Monica daily allies. Have Donald Trump have been clear? Robert Mueller's report cleared the president of any wrongdoing. Actually, it's a tiny bit more complicated than that. While special counsel did clear the Trump campaign of colluding with Russia ahead of the two thousand sixteen election. He did not exaggerate Trump on a Gatien's of structure of Justice. The problem is no one outside a tiny number of people actually seeing the Miller report that could change tomorrow. We could find out now from penalty his reporter of mother Jones based in Washington DC, that's as because on Wednesday, the House Judiciary committee's due to vote on whether they should demand access to the entire reports. Hi. Yeah. That is exactly. Right. And you know, I think this is a something that will succeed this vote will succeed. And then, you know, the democratic run committee will have this subpoena in our pocket to use a against Bill bar if he decides not to hand over the full report to congress. Now, the issue seems to be who has the right to make this determination, Bill bars. You say has read it has published a four page summary has said that although Muller didn't explicitly exonerate Trump on such an Justice. He doesn't think there are sufficient grounds to actually take this any further, and the issue seems to be whether he has the right to make that determination of whether it should be congress. Yeah. I think there's actually a third person here that could make that decision, and that's a federal judge. So, you know, there are legal reasons that the report must be redacted when shown to the public, and that is that it contains information obtained through a grand jury investigation that Muller used and by law that investation has to be private, you know, that's something that's on long upheld for the purposes of, you know, having the integrity of secret investigation. However, a federal judge can wave that privacy of that information. So that congress and the public can see it, and actually there is federal precedent for the fact that congress should actually be able to see the grand jury information without a a specific ruling on this particular report. So if you go back to. The nineteen seventies. There was a similar fight over the report that the special prosecutor in the Watergate case brought up that that that that a special prosecutor wrote and the federal circuit court in Washington DC actually ruled that the report could be turned over to congress in full without reductions. So there is a a contingency here. That believes that the judiciary committee in congress is well within the rights to subpoena. The full report without any reductions will do the Democrats said that the Republicans set of president even sooner in the investigation into Hillary Clinton's private Email server. I think the best part of nine hundred thousand documents ended up being turned over. Yeah. I think that's absolutely right. And that's certainly something that Democrats are bringing up right now. Right. Which is that the pub- the star report was made public, and so why not this one? So I think that there will be efforts to make you know, to similarly wave the secrecy of the grand jury testimony in this Pacific report said that it can be made public. You know, something that they're as you said, there is precedent for and then separately the fact that congress should been titled to see this full report without reductions, regardless of whether a federal judge waves, the grand jury piece for the public commitment also decide that it wants to issue subpoenas to to number of Trump as in among them will be Steve Bannam. Yes. Indeed. I think that, you know, the fear honestly of the Trump administration about the twenty teen elections that we just had about potentially losing the house of representatives to Democrats, which they did was the Democrats would have the power to subpoena. And so this is something that that was I think a primary fear and end it has come into reality. And so I I would not be surprised to see Democrats begin to use that subpoena power. I mean, I think you know, you're what you're seeing. Is there first making requests, you know, they're they're asking nicely. I, but ultimately if they do not get the testimony that they want the documents that they want. I think that it is quite likely that they will move forward end issues Pena's, even if the report is is not released. I if the refuses to do this refused to make it public. You would assume the situation like this that some states eventually it was it was going to leave. Yeah. You know, I think I think that that that is always an option. You know, I think so far, you know, Muller and his team were were known for their incredible ability not to leak, you know, I think we're used to leaks right now because this White House leaks like a sieve, but Muller in the Justice department have been pretty good about keeping things under wraps. And so I think that that is you know, it is harder to get leaks of this kind, especially when you know, if you leak something with grand jury testimony to the public that there's a question of whether or not the crime has been committed there. So that is you know, I think that's that's a bit of tougher leak for sure. So again, I think the more obvious route here is for the Democrats in the house to get a hold of it. And then either demanded that made public or with they have an redacted version than when. Bar releases a redacted version in the middle of April. You know, they'll they'll be able to say like, well, yes, these reductions make sense or no this is way too heavily redacted. They're trying to change the meaning of the report tissue here. If you think of the politics of it, presumably, I is that as far as Republicans are concerned starting with the White House. You know this. They think they've managed to shut this down and settle in the public mind. The idea that Mullah has cleared Trump. Well, the Democrats are desperate to find something they can pin on him and keep hammering him about all the way up to twenty twenty. In. I think that that's true. I also think that there are good reasons not to just trust a four page summary of four hundred page report and assume that that's the whole story. And I think that you know, even bar himself sort of trying to walk back that summary as we're calling it and sort of mid well, no, it wasn't really a summary. You know in the in the way that he characterized Muller's findings at barely even quotes a sentence. I think of the actual report. So I think that you know, Democrats are quite right. Not to simply accept, you know, a four page letter with bars, you know, interpretation of this report and just sort of like throw up their hands and say, I guess the whole thing is over. I think that you know, if if Miller put together some nearly four hundred pages of evidence in analysis, I think there's a lot in there that Democrats would be really interested to see. And at the public would really be interested to see as well to leave open the. Attorney general on the other people in the administration leave themselves open to enormous suspicion that if as they say the report clears the president of wrongdoing if as they say, it exonerates the campaign of doing anything wrong than there should be. No particular reason why you wouldn't release it. Yeah. I think that's absolutely true. And I think I think wrong is a great word here. Right because it can cover all manner of sins. Right. I think that, you know, the, very careful legal language that Barr uses that there wasn't you know, a crime. But there are lots of things that can technically be wrong or that we can morally believe are wrong or that we can leave our bad for our democracy that might not necessarily constitute a crime, and we could go even further to say they should constitute a crime. But it just so happens that Muller didn't feel that the laws as they're currently written in interpreted meant that this would succeed in court. I think especially when you look at the storm Daniels payments. It's hard to understand why the president would not be, you know, an unindicted co-conspirator in campaign finance fraud, unless there's some sort of a legal loophole there that that Muller felt exonerated Trump on. Count. So I think that they're, you know, we know of all sorts of things we know that the president lied about his attempt to get Trump Tower built in Moscow throughout the campaign. We know that there was a meeting in Trump Tower between Russians and, you know, close Trump aids, his son, Manafort, Kushner, we know all of these things happened, and I'm sure that there I would certainly hope that there are more details in this report. You know, I don't think anyone thinks those things aren't wrong. But you know, the question is whether or not they're crimes per me. Thank you very much for joining fuel listening to the Daly from oracle four. Now the weekend. Donald Trump threatened to shut America's border with Mexico the country acted to curb the flow of migrants. Now, Mexico's president is offering to help. But he's also warned that the problem will not be ended unless the root causes adult with. Let's get more from Oscar Lopez a freelance journalist in Mexico City, working for the Thomson. Reuters foundation. This a comment by Mexico's president about needing to deal with the root causes Oscars because most of these migrants on actually from Mexico just passing through from places like Honduras and got Amada. Yes. That's correct. The majority of migrants arriving at the US border actually coming from Central American countries. And in many cases have actually surpassed Mexican nationals arriving crossing the border, particularly the case in Guatemala, which is a nationality. This far far exceeded Mexicans arriving at the border in recent years. Now, the view of the Mexican president is that if you want to the numbers of people leaving countries like Salvador, Honduras, traveling through Mexico to get to the United States, then you need to boost economic development in Central America and create an incentive for them to stay with all the couple of days ago. The US State Department said it wanted to halt aid payments to Honduras, Guatemala, El Salvador. That's right. And that's really going to create a problem not just for the Central American countries themselves, which as you mentioned are suffering from poverty and also extreme violence, which without some kind of financial support. There just aren't going to improve and migration isn't going to stop. But it's also going to create intense friction between Mexico and the United States because Mexico's policy in lupus, those policy has always been, you know, we need to support the Central American countries financially to curve migration. And so the Trump administration's moved to cut that financial aid not only goes against what these countries needs. But also kind of a slap in the face to love about who's kind of accuracy into to President Trump in the hopes that this kind of financial aid and support for Central American countries would come from the us well in indeed, I mean, Mexico's president has often said know he doesn't want to be drawn into a war of words with dummies. Trump. But but this time when when Mr. Trump's as the weekend lying shot the border, Mr Lewis overdose. As you know, we we're going to act to help him is he concerned about giving the impression of giving in. That's I mean, it doesn't seem to be concerned about that impression. But that is definitely the impression the tees giving and there's been quite a lot of criticism in Mexican media and from opposition parties about Lopez those attitude, he's he's should have been seeing a little bit of a punching bag and that he just hasn't stood up to Trump at all despite the constant negative rhetoric over the last few months, and even the head of the main opposition party here in Mexico said that that Lopez adore was being sort of weak and very submissive. And so he's definitely opened himself up to a lot of criticism by not really standing up Trump at all what would the implications bay? If Trump did decide to close the board. That doesn't sound like it will be good not just for the people who are trapped and trying to get over. But a little so in terms of trade. I mean, it would be pretty disastrous for everyone involved. Obviously. For those migrants are trying to get across. There's already a massive pileup of of central Americans all across the border and Mexican authorities are struggling to deal with it. So there's that front, and then obviously on trade, you know, Mexico, and the US there's billions of dollars of trade happening between these two countries and just just to give you an example, you know, forty percents of vegetables in the US, actually, come from Mexico. So just on on that side alone. The trade coming from Mexico to the US the locations would be pretty severe. And there's been reports that the US would run out out of does for example, in in just three weeks, if the Boorda was shut, so so really the implications. Go right across the board. If the Boorda was to shut down. Of course, she's also from Mexico because those those people who are trying to get into the US. I'll stuck inside Mexican I in the past it was offering some temper humanitarian visas, but it's the number of those visas. It's been handing out it seems to be Mulqueen much the US's respects on persuading people to go back to their home countries. Yes, that's true. There was a a program that was set up in January for migrants to be issued with humanitarian visas, but the response was just completely overwhelming into thirteen thousand migrants who applied for the visa in just two weeks. And the authorities just haven't been able to keep up with it. And so they shut the program down. Although over the weekend, they actually said that they're going to start a new program again giving out humanitarian visas to that two thousand two thousand five hundred of the Central American migrants. But the problem is that the migrants just keep coming and Mexican authorities really just aren't equips with the right resources or funding or stuff. Ping to be able to handle them. So so the the attention is certainly turning towards trying to find ways for these people to to go home and not even get stuck at the US border or get stuck at the southern border with Guatemala. I'll pass thank you very much time today. You're listening to the daily from local twentyfold ahead twists and the Brexit saga around about political interference it Australia's public broadcaster. I mean, just a moment a big shift in the political crisis and I'll area. Download the free monocle twenty four out today to tune in wherever in the world you happen to be whether you're catching up on the news on your daily commute enjoying a little cultural nourishment during your morning run or seeking some recipe inspiration around the kitchen table, the monocle twenty four as you. Tune in live or download your favorite Shays to enjoy later. Get started by downloading the monocle twenty four up today. Monocle twenty four keep an eye donaire on the world. To Jerry aware in the last year is is being a decisive shift in the country's political crisis. With the news that the president of the case to step down immediately. This is after further protests against his previously announced plan to resign by the end of the month will belie now is Gordon gray. He's from the center for American progress, and is a former US ambassador in neighboring gymnasia. I go it seems that the breaking point. Hey was when the army's chief of staff demanded immediate action to remove the president from office. You're exactly right. He tr- on last week in March twenty six the now he announced the application of an article, the Algierian constitution that would outline the process for the removal from office of Buddha fleet that did not has the pass muster with the protesters and on Friday, we March twenty ninth. We saw more than a million protestors in in this in the street. They announced yesterday that beautifully would resign before the end of his term, which would be able to twenty eight that's still is not enough. And and today as you said the military announced that put if is resigning effective immediately. So in that case who is now in charge of Jerry a-, technically speaking, the president of the Senate of though cutter Ben Sallah will succeed Buddha fleet. He's got ninety days to organize the presidential. Elections. But in in point fact, the same people are in charge as before the the L gillians call it the pouvoir or or at the power it's really the power behind the throne, including the the army chief of staff general get Saleh. Now, this was one of the wider demands of the protesters wasn't it was not just that the president should step down. But that they should be wider political reforms, and there there was a suspicion when he said that he would he would go at the end of the month, but won't it in some way to find ways to retain state institutions that there was a plan that to make sure that the people that hold leave is now continue to hold. It was a power in the future. Yes, I agree with your your analysis completely. The protesters had two basic sets demands one one set was that beautifully could be removed from office, and and not stand for re election. That's grudgingly. But that's been mad. But there's a whole basket of other demands which are to guarantee free and fair elections to guarantee political freedoms and to change the current government and the power structure, and there's no indication does for that. Any of those demands are going to be met couldn't say demands, I should say aspirated. So the the the implication of is that while the protests doesn't end with their people on the streets, and is as we speak. The protesters will presumably be happy to say the president going, but but on happy at the idea that the reforms that they were seeking may not be any near as a consequence. You're absolutely right. When I I was in Tunisia at the time of the AARP spring when Ben Ali had to flee and there were there were two basic to to prevalent chance. One was the people demand the end of the regime, and that was chanted and Cairo and two thousand eleven out jeers is, you know, in recent recent weeks, you you you're not seeing the end of the regime. You're just seeing the switching out of the of the figurehead Buddha fleet in this case, the other chant which I heard frequently and in in Tunisia was work dignity and freedom, and those are longer term aspirations, which whatever the future government of JIRA is well, we'll have to meet there's a tremendous youth bulge in ALgeria. The unemployment rate is very high probably close to thirty percent. Among the young people are looking for work when they freed. Them. They're looking for political freedoms. And they're looking for dignity that both work and political freedom offer golden, thanks very much golden grey that I with the latest from Gary was say few hours, it's being confirmed that the president has resigned. It's being another busy day at Westminster will assess the in the Brexit crisis in just a moment. But first take a quick look at some of the day's other top stories. Revolt claims Canada is warming twice as fast as the rest of the world. The study wounds changes as a result of climate change already evident in many parts of the country and a likely to get worse. Canada's Octavia has seen the deepest impacts might be to continue warning of more than twice the bible. Right. A Roman Catholic dossiers Dan Madrid is under investigation after reports that it was running causes to kill him a sexually. And it just lead is in the area have denied the claim saying instead, they offer pastoral company to those who freely seek it. But the Chechens website has links to publications that offer advice on how to prevent sexual and children independent coffee chain in the UK says it's lost a quarter of a million pounds since it brought in a ban on single use cups. But it's manages since they've never regrets customers at the Boston tea party Chaim base in the west of England bring a reusable Coppell pay a deposit for a copy and then retire Layton companies cold on the major coffee change to take more dramatic. Action to curb the use of single use tops. This is tiny. Now, we are ten days away from potential no deal Brexit or alway because tonight Britain's prime minister has said she will seek another extension to the process while promising in Hawaii to break the mo- jam in parliament's Theresa May's big idea is to try to plan of action with her biggest political rival with that risks tearing her own party apart. Let's get more. Now prevents a mecca. Vinnie follows all this correspondent for your news on his with me in the studio a seven and a half hour cabinet meeting today at which that phones taken off them. So that they couldn't leak 'cause they always do what was going on. They weren't even allowed out of Downing Street until the prime minister had given a televised address. If you hours ago, so what is the plan? It was quite an extraordinary days. You said that I'd never seen down. She was basically tended to call all of that cause of a caps wasting because they were so worried about these leaks. And so the prime minister's plan she announced in hell. Televised statement on six news is that she will try to work with Jeremy Corbyn on overcoming this impasse. They're going to have some talks, and she will seek an extension. She hopes a short one to try and make sure that that is a deal in place now on the face of it. That sounds fairly simple and sounds like she's carrying on kind of doing what she has been doing for the last two years. Actually, it's a huge shift on her red lines. She's the woman who in public said more than one hundred times, no deal is that the bad deal that has gone. There was a leak clatter this morning in the mail conveniently late from Hemos senior civil servants the opponent sexually cabinet office, which outlined things like ten percent increase in food prices. The loss of police control over law and order. The the direct rule needing tape it into place again in Northern Ireland some really serious repercussions for policing and security because the loss of access to databases. Theresa May who is quite a stickler on security having been secretary of six years. This is definitely something that she now realizes she cannot entertain anymore despite that hardcore her policy once on the fringe of the so-called sponsons, and so she is back away from no deal changing red lines and really making dramatic change to her policy on Brexit because in doing this. She knows that she now needs to move towards a soft Brexit on involves she said this evening talks with the leader of the opposition trying to come up with a proposal is acceptable both to enough conservative and enough labor and pays for it to get through parliament. The risk for labor issue is that having tried to keep the hands off all of this. If if this goes badly wrong, Jeremy Corbyn is implicated in this now Theresa May. Absolutely. And that was the first reaction to labor and pays they rule tweeting that famous stole was it's attrac- gif earlier on because they thought that this was like we saw trees may doing two weeks ago and had television statement just dumping it all on NP's blaming them before the last EU council meeting that tacky backfired on her. This is her now trying to blame labor MP's, and it was interesting tweet from will straw who led the remain campaign. He is as well. The son of former labour Foreign Secretary, Jack straw, and he said the time to ask flavor to for help to devise the case Brexit postie was the day off for the twenty seventeen general election, not ten days before would you crash out? Corbin should set conditions consistent Labor's policy customs union, a confirmatory public vote said the second referendum. And that is what a lot of MP's saying in labor sports is is that the prime minister, and Jeremy copen should meet now, but Jeremy COPA needs to be resolute because I am political reporter, and I cannot tell you what the labor position is day in day out at different hours of the day talking to different members of the shadow cabinet. They all all over the shop, and particular Jeremy Corbyn is very hard to pin down on what exactly he wants because he's willfully ignoring at times the party's policy that they voted full. Indeed, a lot of people say labor and pays labor activists will say you need to go in there and demand a referendum on the the the final deal as is far more lightly. Isn't it? He's going to say, well, okay, I'll I'll get Brexit through fully. But then you have to call a vote for general election because what he really won't just general is exactly what he wants in. That will be the price that he is wanting in Theresa May apparently today during these lengthy talks meant to be five hours and use meant to be sort of a three hours of what? Called political cabinets. That's no civil servants the adults are out of the room. And then it was meant to be proper cabinet with civil servants that telling them how to implement guiding them as the house infant while they decided, and apparently they ran through some polling numbers for a general election, and it was very bad for the conservatives. The Conservative central office said that the funds were pretty low at the moment of not many people happy with them. So don't making donations foam Alesia William Hague said that they'd get annoy late if they ran now I think they were pretty shocked to that. And also you've got to the thing. I didn't quite understand about this Theresa May even considering election last week. She told us that she didn't want to she wasn't going to go on that she was going to leave office if this deal got through and signal a never lead leadership race. And she said the voting a confidence in Simba. I went another action. So Theresa May thinking that she was going to resign preside over leadership race. And then somehow that person was going on ahead to have a general election. Or was she doing what she wanted to have another general? Action in reality and try and gain some majority and get hit prime ministership back on track. She does not want to quit this job. She'll be dragged kicking and screaming from number ten Downing Street, and then for Jeremy copen, I mean that is the conservatives ultimate fear is Jeremy Corbyn, let government nosing the attacks tonight on on this plan from the prime minister Jake of smoke describing him in those tweets as a known Marxist is is quite is quite fun to hold. That is the thing isn't is that today was the day says this message with Theresa May. But she had to she was always going to have to jump one way or the other. She was gonna have to embrace leaving without a deal on eighty eight the other won't side of the Tory policy that doesn't won't that or she would have to embrace a softer Brexit working with all the parties and eighty eight behalf of her own party who won't know deal. She's made that decision yet. But that presumably means that the dozen ministers who would have preferred no deal to to softening the plan must be thinking about whether or not to stay in the covenant. A couple of things on that demonstrate when she had this lock in of the government. And the first person was actually Andrea lesson who left just before the prime minister started speaking, a soul, and I thought that was curious that she was going. I thought will has she just resigned is that why she's going? She is the one who, you know, people the spinning quite hard every time there's a cabinet meeting that she's fighting the fight full Brexit, and I thought would she go. Now, we're just starting to get the front pages of the newspapers in and say, no one has resigned they would have done that before the newspapers embrace particularly telegraph saying on this headline cabinet backs. No deal Brexit, but may turns to Corbin instead saying that they think in this graphic that they've got here that it looks like fourteen members of cabinet actually were against this plan. They went for the not. But it's cabinet clicked phones Busey trees, my ultimate the prime minister makes the decision and she's decided stay so interesting, names and hair. Jeremy hunt who's going from remained. Being in no dealer. Liam Fox now fully no deals while he'd seen resistant people like Chris gray, laying and under. Let's of course that you'd expect. So we will see whether or not they hold fast on this course. And what's interesting as well as the DP had a reaction because trees may two thousand seventeen she had this choice. She could've worked with Corbin nen and tried to do softer Brexit looked the referendum result. Those about position. She was a, you know, a remain a who turned into a lever. And yet she did this deal with de Natori Asli difficult party to deal with and to him serve szeswith keeping policies gathered that she is going so far towards that positional Brexit, these red lines that she created that it just simply was never going to be deliverable. And I think the DP tonight in this statement, they say it remains to be seen if sub contracting out the future Brexit's, Jeremy Kuban, someone whom the conservatives of demonized for four years, we'll end happily well, DP, frankly, have three opportunities in which to back the prime min. Stern blocks from happening. And they did it. Somebody else would think replying to that DP statement of sub well the fair enough, but sub-contracting this to the DP hasn't gotten brilliantly exactly, especially you know, a policy who won't even sit in that devolve stem at the moment over two years. They haven't done that they were meant to be in this confidence deal for which they got billions of pounds with the prime minister knowing full well that this was the path Brexit was getting stake as I'm not exactly known that he tells the backstop, but they knew the prime minister had owner the Good Friday agreement which is what the backstop does when you boil it down. That is what it does. And this is a policy that didn't come on board with the Good Friday cremation in nine hundred seven when it was selling. It was a couple years later. They did that. So you think when the prime minister had our options in two thousand seventeen of a needs labor of got lots of Brexit seats, huge numbers of Brexit. He saw lay party northern constituencies. And then I've got this fringe group in my posse who quite mad about this. And you've also got. The DP notoriously difficult and the admits it on Friday, which I thought was so telling was that they would rather just walk away from Brexit because normal and did not vote for Brexit. They voted to stay because they knew be so complex and their neck of the woods. Anything was the DP's hot ever, actually in Brexit. If they have to look like they were going through the motions to get this money, and then they thought okay? Well, if you will just remain and collapses deal. So once again, it is going to be an interesting day tomorrow PM cues this meeting which are Coleman expected to happen. If they're going to be more resignations. He he wanted to time the maximum impact you'd resolve. Yeah. Of course. And we saw that of course with the independent group formed in Sarah Walston anniversary, Heidi Alan, all left just before paying keys to inflict maximum damage on the prime minister, of course, Jeremy Corbyn as so often does Mr. huge own goal in not really going after them at that point because of the he'd lost an MP's as well. But yeah, it'd be tricky for Goldman as well to play on that tomorrow if trees may does lose cabinet ministers, but the names being bandied around. I mean, Andrey lets them she's, you know, she's the leader of the house. It's not as big a deal. This is a prime minister who lost their foreign secretary. An have wreck secretary in the space of a day. She lost another Brexit sector, four months later. She's lost. Big names. Would normally topple the prime minister. And being able to stay on the other names that can round which you have to love Chris Greyling apparent again to resign in principle over this principle in in, you know, even even the New York Times has picked up on the fact that he is probably one of the most hapless government ministers anywhere in the world. And. Was whilst more problems coming from the deals. He's done for transport over Brexit at the facts as well that the prisons are in total mess of the moment and having taken back into public ownership undoing the work the work that he did he might have been trying to use this as a bit of cover. The one thing we haven't told before we finish his for all of these conversations about reaching out to Westminster and cross party discussion an all of this. That's the small matter of weather when the prime minister says I won't another extension to Brexit. But I wanna short extension only runs until we agree a deal can leave, and I don't want to the European elections this much whether the European Union's actually going to agree to that. Yes. Definit-? And that mean today live Radka, the teasha prime minister was meeting with a manual macro and FRANZ president. And you know, the language coming out of Paris is more robust. You know, you remember that shells, go famously didn't want percents. Join the EU he was very against it. He thought that the U K would wreck the project Zony offers death that FRANZ shifted its position and allow the UK's come in and a lot of the soundings from from France and Lithuania's, well, well, we've got up done now for no deal. It'll then wasn't. Does it wouldn't be great? But this is going on too long that very worried that it's taking up as it is here in Britain, all of the bound within government is taken up by Brexit old apartments have relinquished off to work on this all of the projects, basically suspended and the same thing is happening with the EU that so much focus on this. When it has baked challenges in terms of migration in terms of its upcoming European elections. The rise of antisemitism fall right policy trying to combat huge forms as well with Hungary trying to keep them compliant with the terms of the EU, and of course, domestic problems as well. Which again, so neglected like rising unemployment and possible sessions coming the EU wants this done. And you know, they've been urged tonight Donald tusk to be patient. And that is the instruction going out trying to remind everyone will we shouldn't cut off on as despite our face. But you know, Theresa May notoriously does not do what she's going back to Brussels on the on the tenth for knee council meeting. She doesn't read the room very well in these. Situations all present very well. And we'll see whether or not she can finally gets it rise at one of these EU council meetings. Any thank you very much for joining us to help us understand the latest twists they'll probably be twists while for the time. We wake up in the morning, actually, you're listening to multiple twenty four. Now, there's a popular belief that of a broadcaster is receiving complaints of political bias from all sides in politics. They must therefore be doing something. Right. But what happens if the person who is complaining happens to be the prime minister. That's a question Australia's considering now after allegations of political interference of the nation's public broadcast of the we'll give a knee wait by the findings of a Senate committee as Monaco's Ben Ryland reports. The I base is funded by the taxpayer it's governed by an independent board and its independence is important to me. It's important important government. And that independence needs to be my tight. Despite assurances from the strategy and prime minister, Scott Morrison room is political interference at Australia's public broadcaster have rarely bane in short supply, those suspicions became painfully public loves year when the ABC's managing director, Michelle Guthrie was abruptly sacked. I saw we begin with his significant news. It's just come through on the IDC in the last five minutes or side. It's coming to statement from the board signed the Ivy journalists, including the broadcasters earn presenters learned of news via an Email from champion Justin mill complaints about Guthrie leadership style were apparently quite common concerns had been raised about her ability to defend the ABC's independence in the face of criticism and she'd been seen to wave oh unto grilling from lawmakers, despite Guthrie shortcomings. However, the Justin Milne was struggling to explain his reasons full sacking. Oh, three journalists spelling something a little off started following the sent within days. Melbourne's the age and the Sydney Morning Herald reported details of an Email that seemed to show the Chinen asking the managing director to sack the ABC's chief economics correspondent, Anna L Burri. The reason complaints lodged by the government against Albert. She's journalism the implication, of course, was that if L the reach was not sacked the government might reduce the ABC's funding almost immediately. After the report an open all stuff meeting was cold at the ABC's headquarters in Sydney, though, it looked more like a protest with placards demanding no political interference and many colon full the chairman to step down if he cannot act in the best interest of an independent. I base c then he simply must resign. What might have been an internal dispute was quickly brewing into a political scandal within hours, the chairman made the inevitable official. He was out and at that meeting onto sand. I decided to suggest to me that I'm not stand aside while these various investigations have been prepared to take place. But I said what I think actually I should resign. Because clearly there is a lot of pressure on the organization, the allegations rounding LBJ a punt of the basis for a Senate committees finding that political interference is experienced to varying degrees throughout the also warned that were stranding governments to continue undermining the independence and integrity of the corporation it status as a trusted institution would be significantly diminished. The new managing director Aita Butros is in many respects, everything the corporations. Previous leadership was not a founding editor of the influential women's magazine. Cleo in nineteen seventy-two Butros has been a familiar face in stellian media, ever since he's held her own opposite powerful media moguls over the years, including Kerry Packer, and Rupert Murdoch. And she's being a vocal critic of the ABC's occasional failure to defend itself in the face of political opposition. I think that is a failing of of the boards, very well credential get me wrong, but there's not a lot of experience. They and I think you must have made your experience if you get around the ABC because of the nature throws is undoubtedly a popular choice. But there's a catch. She wasn't even own the official shortlist of contenders to lead ABC, her appointment came from the prime minister and ignored all the names that had been selected by an independent panel. The Senate committee. Commends that the ABC's selection criteria full board members be amended to ensure that applicants with substantial media experience our elected, which is perhaps almost a blessing of the prime minister's intervention in favor of either Butros, but it does raise a curious question. Why did the prime minister makes such a point of installing the feelers Lee professional Butros when he could have selected someone far more likely to be a political ally. Is as the Senate committee says political interference is experienced at the ABC? Why didn't we see it play out when recruiting was underway full the top job, perhaps it's because Scott Morrison understands just how deep the roots the ABC run into a stray Elliot's national identity. It's not funded from TV lozenge fees, private donations. It's fully tax payers supported if you pay tax. You're paying for the. That infuses a sense of shared ownership of the burrowed Kosta into the nation's coach after all politicians may not enjoy a verbal pummeling from Lee sales, but they do keep coming back. And so do the viewers guest on the program came on? And I only got to talk about what I wanted to talk about. It would be very different. Christian. How interested do think? I asked. Very interesting. I'm Ben Reilly. From strata will shift focus to Asia. And just a member we take a look at some of the top niece story. Stay with us. Every Sunday the bulletin with UBS goes behind the numbers and the height to explain what's really happening in the world finance fourteen from the desks of the key analyst UBS and experts from all around the world, the program delivers definitive insights into the people places and products set to shape the week ahead. This is a show that explains how fast moving financial world really works. So set your agenda for the week ahead June into the bulletin with UBS every Sunday on more cool twenty four or download the latest episode right now. Monaco com Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts the bulletin with UPS. We take a look at some of the top stories across Asia with my guest in the studio Brin guy says who is the BBC World Service digital editor covering East Asia was starts Bruno in Thailand, if we can because we not that long at all off the country's election. The army is issuing a warning. Staunch morning by the army chief general of the army commander in chief more specifically general Peter cone, some palm airing his political stance saying that politisches lecturers and students must obey the rules and not try to overthrow the constitutional monarchy or the country could suffer another civil war. It's a bit of a vial threat or any signaling that the current mic military dictatorship has no will to seize it scrip on power, and that this elect this election has been a bit of a ploy to keep the military dictatorship in the military junior in power, which is what some feared and in this interview in the Bangkok Post. The army commander in chief also make some vialed reference to the ousted. Prime minister who's also a fugitive from Justice as his been targeted by the military junior taxation water who call the elections rigged and said that they tarnished Thailand's image abroad. I mean, it's not that surprising. Is it to have didn't have veiled threats from the time military. It's not like it's not out of character. No. Through fear. They they prepare Choate house in power, and they keep people in line. And they talk about they've also closely align themselves with more key and the current king who is going to be still to be coronated. And that's one of the reasons people believe that they will only announce the official results on early may, which is after the coronation of the current king. Let's go to the Philippines, next because there's a legal ruling that which could see some potentially woman think embarrassing documents being made public. Yes, the supreme court has agreed to release to petitioners tens of thousands of documents related to the killings made under the mantle of president Rodrigo duties, Warren drugs, which many activists considered to be unlawful and having. It as having had the the action of paramilitary groups. Now, we know that Mr. detector has been a very sort of fierce defender of of of his war on drugs, but we also know that it's being spectacularly violent. It's violent many believe that. Some of these deaths were actually extra judicial killings. Lead not necessarily by by police agents. But but even paramilitary forces or shady characters with some connections to to the the the police and settling scores which didn't necessarily have to do with the war on drugs India next and the the the prime minister that being challenged to join in a debate on corruption. Yeah, this is Bairo Gandhi the leading opposition candidate and also the son of big political dynasty in India. Which is now talking taking a tougher stance against the current leader, the leader Mody, so prime minister Mori and now he's challenging on several several fronts telling. Ging him to a debate on the issues of corruption development, national security and foreign policy and this toughest signals that he the congress party might think that under Modi. Is not as strong as he initially seemed, and that these elections are being more contested than they it seemed that I it was looking like the BJ BJP. The ruling party would just was just going to be a walk in the park for them. But not quite so right now just briefly before we before we wrap this up China is taking action against the dreaded phenomenon of the robocall. Yes. It's action by the municipal government in Beijing and talks with some three of the major internet from in the country against robocalls. And what they call nuisance calls, which they also believe could contain scams to obtain information of users like Bank information and so on. I'm this is a worldwide phenomenon. This of irritating, fun calls generated by machines and all this kind of business. But you would have thought that that that China with its grasp of technology and his vase technology companies would have been, you know, it's nice to shut down access to the internet UNIFIL that have dealt with the robo robocall. But that's the thing it there's a with each one of these things there. Have a new challenge emerges. And then there's always at least temporarily those who are able to bypass the restrictions and come up with some different scheme to to directly get get what they they're seeking the trick suspect is probably to actually high the people who write the programs robo calls to teach you how to fix them Brenna will have to be that Brennan. Thank you very much. Finally this evening. We look ahead to the next edition of the entrepreneurs where we will meet the founder and CEO of connect jets, which is a private aviation company. Gabriella some of those ended up ten years ago with our own money and remains at solo career started with the original Virgin Atlantic cabin crew. And he's still counts Richard Branson, mental. She spoke to multiples Danube, h my father was an architect by trade, but he loved aircraft myong-koo Scotney red arrows, my father hates that. I was to be a boy and four I had already sort of play pen of airplanes that before as David Dole's house say there was sort of ingest fascination from young age, but very much Macy on my father. What was his connection to airplanes if anything he came in from the design side, so he was by trade in architecture, but very much designer, but he had a huge interest in the design on the end. Nearing of an Acura of and that is combined with my uncle being Gordon. Need the red arrows was very much kind of driven. Sue Grace's agree by that? And you're sort of dragged along to air show as if if I'm not run. Yeah. Yeah. I was taken to big hill was any five miles must say we were big in hill Mace weekends when the shake came my father also take me out of bit of plane spotting so yes, absolutely covered Mesa the Shays and again wash my uncle when he was in the red arrows fascinating, I wanna just fast forward a bit to learn about how you actually got into the world of of working in aviation because that was with virgin how did that come about? Well, it was interesting because from young age I'd always wanted to to travel that was inherent young age. And so I had to the prior to joining virgin traveled to America as nanny or a pair in the US. And I think that had give me this great desire to reach other countries in the planet, and I started to apply for jobs within the airline sector, which was a lot harder. Most. I think I went for Levin interviews before getting my fast, one per shot Airways, which I was there for six months, and then on veget- nonce thereafter, and you report of the original virgin cabin cours. Yeah. I came back a longtime. Yes, I was on the original virgin girls say game back to when it was in. It's really embryonic days when it just started. They exciting times Richard kind of hit the market by storm by recreating an airline with a different format. He spoke blue sky thinking and see the service into she every process of booking and everything else. At that time say it was a great place to be in the nineteen late nineteen eighties and being part of the virgin empire. When it's being built, do you think you're interested in being a part of that was the excitement around the business end of the airline or little bit of seeing the world and being a part of it. What was that? I think I mean veggie say in these times being stood as what if they sorta jobs everybody wanted, you know, we used to be down root for ten days. This was an Montek job. It was fantastic. Traveling the world getting paid to stay in five star hotels. But I think it was a culmination base. I think version stood out the time. Everybody wants join them. And and it really was I think my passionate inherently was to love to craft. I love lying and I love traveling. And it says take your books in terms of where I wanted to go my career. And you moved up quite quickly with virgin as well. I mean from what you told me when we first met, I think Richard Branson had a big impact on you. And part of that will come to connect jets in a bit your company now. But maybe something that rubbed off was the entrepreneurial spirit that he encouraged for you to think outside the box a little bit the people that worked for him. He wanted that. They might say I mean, it was grace in sense. Because he he would bring out the orange Pinera ni if it was that there was something in you that seeking a bit more. And I think you'll rise. I did I was lucky that I went in the right time. It was a young nine. I went through to pass that quite quickly. What he in the first class cabin Richard light to see that passion. And he liked to see people that were has czar to get on. And I think in the cabin. He would come up says Abubakar what I was on the deck, which is my favorite position. And he would say how would you improve? S you know, what are the passengers saying, well, she thinking and that was what was grace. But he was there little pad and pen and just write down these gems because actually we were the best people to us because inherently we were working day in day out with the customers, and we knew what they wanted. So that was I think the key to his success is the fact that he listened to shortfall workers, and he wanted to know what was and therefore our Sadat's, he then built this very credible aligned, but was on sort of the cutting edge in terms of where it was going in the sector. Do you think you could pinpoint to one of the greatest takeaways you you learn from him and getting that chance to to hear from him directly. I think the one thing I I liked passion was when ever I was very lucky I was on the promotional team. So I got on all the inaugural flight. So I did the London's Los Angeles where we had Jacqueline Bisset Jane Seymour. David so much y'all its name. Is today, but we had the beef fifty TS boming out a live band in this piece of aluminum cheating. We had models of Dink round the aircraft in bikinis and plastic max. And I think what I learned from. That was when we were down rate, Richard always invite us to the events, and he realized that we will keep people, and he about leadership, I think more than anything that to be a true leader and be successful and inherently to have the people following you, which if you're going to create a brand you have to create that all the way through talk right through sports him, and he was excellent to that. Because he would always look behind him Hato AC if we will following. And if we weren't nice, assassins, they right? What do we need these mate specia-? If we had a particularly difficult flies all say was delayed for a long period, or we had done something out of the ordinary would receive nice little gift, sometimes, you know. Bottom pay maybe a freak Bo skit every Christmas card was signed by him. They were little touches that make you feel special. And I think you know know, man, you know, Nyland on a rain, but when you create a team that believe in your vision believe in you, an actually filled loyalty because you've been Sega them than I just think that is where you know, where his successes where Loyd that time Gabriela Somerville. Who's the founder of connect jets? You can interview in full in the preneurs premieres at nineteen hundred London time Wednesday here or monocle twenty four wraps up this monocle daily produce buyer this much lower. Ben Reilly research is Daphne Nick money's unless Judea manager was Christie Evans. We'd love to know what you think of this in our other news programs. You had multiple dot com. Forward slash m twenty four survey. You can tell us what you like what you don't like as long as you. Nice until next time. Thanks for listening for me by. Bye. Bye.
US allies watching closely following Soleimani killing
"The trump administration officials are defending the decision to kill Iranian general. Hossam Sulejmani. Look you're not a U. S. diplomat I am US diplomats. From where you're asking me. Why didn't we look the other way when? US diplomats were about to be killed. European peon diplomats have this request of the US to count out further provocative statements and still more provocative actions also grab the wool niggers across the globe. Rallying around a special project needles are hot reading. We'll explain plus the planet runs on plastic that is clogging our oceans. Scientists scientists are cooking up a completely new plastic. What we've created is a plastic that can be deconstructed into? It's molecular building blocks. I'm I Marco Werman those stories and more today here on the world. I'm Marco Werman. This is the world in Iran on today. At least fifty people were killed and more than two hundred injured in a stampede. At the funeral procession for Hossam Sola money. The Iranian military. Commander was killed in an American American airstrike last Friday in Baghdad during two days of public mourning across Iran millions of Iranians came out to show of national unity this afternoon. President and trump called Sulejmani a monster. And he's no longer a monster he's dead and that's a good thing for a lot of countries and he was planning a very big attack at a very bad added tack trump said a lot of lives were saved by killing Sulejmani. Trump's top administration officials were out in front of the cameras all day defending him secretary of State. Mike Pompeo Paige called trump's order to kill Sulejmani. The right decision but America's allies in Europe say both sides the US in Iran need to do their parts to ease tensions. Here's the world's ORLA. Barry London the British prime minister was on vacation in the Caribbean when the news broke last Friday that the US had killed. Iran's top halt military commander Boris Johnson's initial statement when it came was cautious. He said he would not be lamenting the death of Qasim Salamone but he also urged restraint on all sides he was left to the British foreign secretary. Dominic Robb to do the talking rob said that escalating conflict with Iran is close close in none of our interests. Frankly it's the decision that the Americans have taken but we understand why they did it. Let's be clear about this. They've the right to exercise self defense and General Sumani. The money was the head of the commander of the Qods Force. So we understand the position the action they've taken. It took more than forty hours for European Union leaders in France. Germany emanate and the UK to issue a joint statement on the killing of the Iranian general. This perhaps was an indication that not all sides were in total agreement that statement it also appealed to both sides the US and Iran to step back from the brink of war EU spokesman. Peter Stan encouraged all parties to de-escalate our strength. I think is in the ability as you talk to the partners and put it the arguments why it is in everyone's interest to escalate the situation on Sunday Hyundai Secretary of State. Mike Pompeo was asked about the response from America's most important allies. And here's some of what he had to say on Fox News for Europeans haven't been as helpful helpful as I wish that they could be. The Brits the French the Germans all need to understand that what we did what. The Americans did saved lives in Europe as well but the Europeans never really signed onto the trump administration's hardline approach towards Iran. They've worked to keep the Iran nuclear deal in place since the US walked away from it in twenty nine came and now Iran says it will no longer abide by the DA's limits on uranium enrichment. That's a real blow to the European Union. I think the problems for the member states. He says they don't have anything else available and they don't really have any other options. Richard Whitman is associate fellow at Chatham House a pink tank in London he says the Europeans are are still struggling to save the Iran nuclear deal they want to preserve Diallo really. It's bit of desperation in hang on to that deal even though it's pretty threadbare now foreign ministers from France Germany and the UK Mash in Brussels today ministers from all twenty eight EU states will hold an emergency meeting this Friday but the member states come to the table with different agendas. Germany for example is already planning and pulling some of its troops out of Iraq Britain on the other hand his his keeping about four hundred soldiers there at least for now but the issue. That's front of mind for Boris Johnson has to be Britain's plan to finally leave the European Union in in just three weeks time Lewis Lukens was the deputy chief of mission at the US Embassy in London from Twenty Sixteen to Twenty nineteen. He says the Prime Minister is he's walking a diplomatic tightrope between remaining closely aligned with his European partners and allies. But at the same time the prime minister cannot be seen as has turning his back on president trump because he's very focused on trying to lay the groundwork for a US UK free trade agreement in the coming few years Johnson might also. It'll be mindful of recent history. What pass British prime ministers aligned themselves with the US for the purposes of taking military action in the Middle East things of not always worked out so well? Here's Richard Whitman again. Parliamentarians now very lows to see the UK involved in major overseas military adventures. And I think even with. He's he's significant. Parliamentary majority. Boris Johnson is going to face a parliament which I think would be very difficult to persuade. This is something that the UK UK should be deeply involved in. A word of caution came from the former British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw he served during the. US led invasion of Iraq in two thousand and three anti this message for president trump. Tell him to take a very very deep breath. and to cut out further provocative statements and still more provocative actions. Excuse it's very very dangerous. Boris Johnson got on the phone today with Iraq's Prime Minister to talk about working together to find a way forward. A spokesman said Johnson Ulcer told the Iraqi leader that the UK is committed to Iraq stability and to the fight against Isis for the world. I'm Morna Bari. In London for another view we reached out to one of president. Trump's top diplomats in Europe. He told us as far as he's concerned. Europe is totally on board with. US policy toward Iran were very pleased with the reaction from the Germans and from the larger European wide community. I think there's a a total agreement. Iran is responsible for the escalation. That's Richard Grinnell the US ambassador to Germany. The what we've seen is a number of statements from Europeans certainly in Germany unfamiliar. With whether it's the Defense Secretary of Party leaders governments folks people we. We've just seen across the board commitment commitment that the escalation is the responsibility of the Iranians. And that all of these issues including the rise in terrorism is to be blamed on the Iranian regime. We have heard a lot of criticism from Europe about what seems to be a lack of foresight and the White House about how killing Selemani might lead to a really bad consequences. That's your job right to focus on on the negative but I would urge you to also focus on the positive. I have a list of positive comments that I haven't heard from a radio interviews or or news programs. You Know Doc. I see a lot of news outlets quoting the Iranian regime leaders but the public in Iran. The everyday everyday people are not allowed to go on instagram or twitter and voice their free Opinions although this time something seems so shifted in Iran. I mean these hundreds of thousands of people possibly millions are out in the streets and I know that sometimes they are paid to go out. But there's a huge section of these protesters who are very upset that he was killed the general I look. I think I would caution. You very much to know if you if you are in touch with people who who will send messages like they've sent to the embassy into me personally. They are saying that they're not only forced to paint their doors. Black and look look like they are are weeping. But they're forced to go out. This is a society that if you don't go out then your family suffers right in this. In this particular instance. It seems that there are many Iranians for hundreds of thousands of Romanians who've gone out on the streets willingly doesn't necessarily mean they support the regime. Let me let me ask you this ambassador. We know the hip look. I need to push back on that because I don't buy that. I don't believe that just because you see someone in the street in Iran that person is freely there weeping at the prospect of Sulejmani being killed. I think that many people inside of Iran know exactly what's happening and yet they are a very afraid well. I'm not basing that just on what on seeing we've been speaking with people in Iran and that's what I'm also hearing anyway. Look I don't want to downplay. General Simonis crimes that we know he was responsible for hundreds of American deaths and it is possible well he was planning an imminent attack on US forces. We haven't seen the evidence yet. But can you help us understand how taking money out at this moment in time fits into into America strategy in the Mid East. Look you're not a U. S. diplomat. I am a US diplomatic work at the State Department. Where you're asking me as why didn't we look the other way way when? US diplomats were about to be killed her asking me and I think that it's a very I'm asking Emmanuel. I'm actually asking why right now because we haven't seen the evidence so I don't know what the evidence is your reporter you're not going to cede the intelligence evidence and to assume that somehow that you are going to see the intelligence evidence I think is a contrary to the way that the government works so the simple fact is that this was a moment where the president of the United States felt very strongly that we could not look the other way we had eleven attacks in the last weeks we've also had our embassy where. US diplomats work burned and bombed. So I I'm not sure what the question is in terms of. Should we look the other way when our US embassies sees overseas overseas are burned and bombed. We've been through that before in Libya what to look the other way if you pull thirty five thousand feet and you look at the goal of preventing Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. What I'm asking is why now taking out Sulamani? How does that help achieve that goal? While I'm just telling you that you're thirty. Five thousand feet question means that you ignore. US diplomats about to be killed. The assumption in that question is somehow that the Iranians get to act like terrorists. And we're just supposed to accept that because the Iranian honey and regime does that and I think that no I'm actually. They said the evidence that there was an imminent threat. He doesn't want to allow diplomats allow the US personnel to be killed like this. He does not want our embassies to be attacked. And I'm thankful that we have a president that is willing to make those tough decisions ambassador. You're nominated to your position by president. Trump campaigned on ending. What he calls America's endless wars? Don't you think we are now at risk of entering another one no I don't because President Donald Trump has made very clear from the very beginning that he wants to bring our troops home that he doesn't WanNa start wars and that his actions recently to take take out. Sulejmani is really about stopping these endless wars that we are fighting in the Middle East that defeating terrorism is really the goal Richard Grenell the US ambassador to Germany speaking with us from Berlin. Thanks for your time. Thank you big legal news. From England a judge is there has ruled that ethical. Veganism is a philosophical belief no bones about it that means it must be protected from discrimination in the workplace just like religious beliefs. The case was brought by Jordi customer. Jonah he claims he was fired for his commitment to veganism customers. John Book outside the courtroom after the decision came down. I'm I'm extremely happy. I obviously wanted this verdict. I didn't expect to have so soon when we say ethical. Veganism we're not talking about people who get a veggie Burger for lunch once in a while ethical. Vigorous tried to avoid any form of animal exploitation. No wool or leather clothes for example. It's a whole way of life. That is a the crucial distinction says. Lawyer Anthony Corn. He specializes in employment and discrimination law earlier case Vegan failed to show that she she had a philosophical belief the tribunal concluded that she just held an opinion. According to the court's opinion is just that but the specific civic category of religion or belief is protected by UK law looking ahead. Corn believes this new ruling. Could Lead to discrimination suits if Vegan employees. Don't don't feel accommodated at work. If that laughed at teased or made to feel unwelcome in the workplace. That could give rise to a claim going out for your a Christmas meal and not being offered a vegan option. Might give rise to a complaint of discrimination while vegans are celebrating some critics wonder if this could open Pandora's box walks and that others might seek protection for their own beliefs. A British judge already ruled in two thousand nine that a strongly held belief in climate change was protected by workplace discrimination laws but customer Jonah says the ruling makes sense to him east of philosophical belief. And when you look at my life and anybody else's life is unethical Vegan. You will see it. This is not over customer. Jonah's former employer maintains. He was fired for misconduct. Not For being Vegan. A judge has yet to rule on whether he lost his job unfairly. This is the world I'm Marco. Werman this is the world early this morning. Puerto Rico was hit with a six point four magnitude earthquake center just off the main island. It was the biggest in a string of tremors that have rattled Puerto Rico for the past ten days it pushed the island into a state of emergency one of the areas that was hardest. Hit is the southern city of Ponce Maria Melendez is the Mayor Aponte. Everybody was out outside the The street there were no lights thirty. Laura Puerto Rico at the same time signed by the four thirty in the morning but I- leak near I sent through emergency services. I use about three mean walking so my escort immediately became move me with the emergency. Oh and we begin to get new in the area so as mayor of Ponce you were kind of organizing managing the release services so this is a magnitude six point. Six earthquake earthquake already on top of a large quake the day before what sort of damage of his same destroy. There were houses that were galop on his drawing of the same thing. There are buildings that are more than fixed rollers that they are broken and at the same time people were three. I'm people were outside industry because people have been one to stay in condominiums not even on their houses because the essay was. Let's continue not only the six point six but they are fifty minutes later another one. We have seen last night more than twelve else weight but much lesser degree. One point three two-point tool but the point you're making is that. The tremors in the aftershocks are continuing today today continuing to a more than sick in the south that phones as in silos is the most affected area are other CBO's affected his. Johnny I need. This seat is largely theme between two meanings for Bonzi. So Madame mayor what about injuries and fatalities inbounds it night person taken to the hospital because they felt they broke the someone their needs what they already taken care off in hospitals but we have lost we. Lost is the wool. That a distinct and these wall was that there was a man that mostly be on seventy three years old and he he died. That's the only laws that we have up to. I don't know if Stockley I'd if there are injuries or ignored that die in Geneva Jouko Org Wanaka because the communications cageless or the mayor's out of their emergency center taking care of the buildings are are collapsed at the same time. The houses are destroyed taking out the people of the broken house. I mean that is sad but we hope there are no other fatalities mayor Melendez. Can you tell us a little bit about Ponce. What is the community like? Well pose as the second. You see territorial extension was psychological theory but at the same time. The city is like one more than Five hospital at the same time the school of Medicine at at the same time at school school is the big center in all of the songs area. We have about one hundred fifty thousand people leaving infants Z.. A Big Mall and many shopping centers of the same time. There are a big little auditory for basket. We've got no use it because he's broken the rules and his broken in the roof because of the earthquake. Yes yes because of the way so we are trying to use used the areas that are in the baseball park. Who'd be using outra emergency center and giving helping people the Governor Puerto Rico. She has national art lab. Thous- so people are working together. Maria Melendez is mayor of Ponce. Puerto Rico thank you very much. Stay safe now I want to thank you for. The people of the bailing can understand what is happening with regal. We have Maria we have not yet recovered from on Worley are praying that God would protect fainting. Anyhow the federal government will give us this important that the president of the United States signed the urgency resolution of Puerto Rico. Winegar said nothing into thank you very much. The mere existence of Amazon's fierce women fighters riders has been debated for decades. The stuff of Legend or reality now. A growing body of archaeological evidence shows the women did exist and they were serious warriors. Carriers archaeologists found remains last month of four female warriors buried together in a tomb according to researchers at the Russian Academy of Sciences. The women were part of Tiffin's a nomadic tribe that lived in Siberia. Adrienne mayor is the author of the Amazon's lives and legends of warrior. Women across the ancient world. I'm just curious How you reacted when you heard about this tomb where you surprised? I was not surprised but I was absolutely delighted. This particular discovery is unique because it contains four women with that age range from older woman of High Status Down to twelve or thirteen year. Old Young girl all fighting together as companions agents in warfare all trained in the same way and buried with the same honors as male warriors. It just shows overwhelming proof that there really were flesh and blood blood women living the lives of mythical Amazons in antiquity so we should point out that you were not part of this excavation but you have studied the lives of warrior women so talk about that age range why. Why is that significant? What does it tell us about the lives? These women lived Cynthia nomads lift. In a harsh landscape their lives were centered on horseback back riding and archery and that's a great equalizer for men and women so boys and girls were trained together at the same age even as toddlers they began to ride horses uses and learned how to shoot bows and arrows that was their culture so it made sense for everyone to be trained to defend the tribe and to hunt this new new discovery proves that women of childbearing age also served as warriors as well as the very youngest were trained in the art of Warfare Adrian. I'm curious help us understand. How could these women and young women have died and been buried all at the same time? The archaeologist said that they couldn't find Hyundai battle wounds but that doesn't mean that they weren't killed in battle. I would imagine that they were buried together because they had participated in a raid against some other hostile tribes and had all died in that skirmish and so were buried together with their weapons. The researchers say the average life expectancy of a SIP. The woman at the time was between thirty to thirty five years old but one of the women in the tomb was between forty five and fifty so could the life expectancy analysis be off or the woman just outlived counterparts. I think it's entirely possible that they had a longer age range than what has been proposed. She must have been Dan very highly respected. Perhaps a leader the fact that she was wearing a golden headpiece and was buried so many arrows suggests that she was probably the leader. You're of a war band. Were these women related to each other. Like how were they connected. We are not sure how they were connected. The idea is that they were companions in Warfare Affair and died together and were buried together. Adrienne mayor the author of the Amazon's lies and legends of warrior. Women across the ancient world. Adrian thanks very very much. Thank you very much for having me. You're listening to the world. National security decisions often have life and death consequences and critics say right now. The decision making process at the White House is not working. You have to have a process that brings multiple perspectives there including set in order to get good decisions when that process breaks down. You're you get some bad decisions. That's coming up here on the world. I'm Marco Werman you're with the world where CO production of the BBC World Service W. G. B. H. BOSTON NPR wrecks the US decision to assassinate Iran's number two last week is troubling for many foreign policy professionals president trump ordered the US military leterrier to kill Iranian General Qassem Soleimani life and death. Decisions are not normally made quickly in Washington the US government has well established processes to make sure sure the costs and benefits risks and opportunities are carefully weighed Michelle floor nosy systems through a lifetime of experience and national security. She was undersecretary area of defense for policy under Barack Obama and now runs the strategic consultancy West Executive Advisors normally the question of how to respond to do a series of Iranian provocations ultimately the attack by an Iranian backed proxy. That killed a contractor. You'd have a discussion about how how to respond in several options would be put on the table and those would be vetted and discussed interagency across the National Security Council at multiple levels usually starting with deputy secretaries than moving to principals and eventually moving to the president but in this administration for a very long on-time now that normal process has been nonexistent. The deputies rarely meet the principals rarely meet very serious. Decisions brought the president without a whole lot of vetting and exploration of second and third order consequences and so they clearly presented a set of tactical options to him. Either the strategic consequences weren't explored and explained or he didn't care to listen to that. He made a pretty hasty the decision and now living with the consequences of that well. The administration is defending itself just this morning secretary state. Mike pompeo spoke to reporters and Said said the system is working. Well here. He is anytime with President. Makes a decision of this magnitude. There are multiple pieces of information that come before us. We presented that to him in all. What's broad detail? We gave him all the best information that came not only from the intelligence community for those of us who have teams in the field we evaluated the relevant risks in the opportunity that we thought might present itself at some point And we could see clearly Michelle floor and I I mean what you essentially described a moment goes what what happened with. This decision trump was presented with the range of options. He chose the most extreme option that I think a lot of his advisors did not really expect come to take so when you look at that and you look at the system what is working and what is not well first of all if the majority of the advisors believe is that it's a bad option or not the best option I questioned. Why was it put before the president of the United States normally a good process eliminates spat options on the other hand if the option survive scrutiny? It's incumbent on the principals who were there with the president to make sure he fully understands all of the second and third order consequences all of the risks. It's hard for me to believe that it was explained to president trump that this would put every embassy and every US military base in the Middle East at higher levels of risk from Iran or Iranian. Proxies that would basically undermine our campaign against isis by violating Iraqi sovereignty. In a way that would force the Iraqis to almost have after. Come to some decision to push us out to our to restrict our movements in that it would also lift the lid on the Pandora's box of assassination. I mean as horrible as so money was and as you know legitimate. He was as a target. He was also the second most powerful person in Iran an-and Ronin officials official so now any. US official traveling in the region. You know Iran will say. Hey they're fair game you assassinated our guy. Why can't we assess nate yours? I so I can't believe that trump would have chosen. The option had that all been explained to him if he did choose that option fully informed of those consequences than Mrs even more dangerous situation than we thought so trump supporters who like their disruptor and Shaef may ask why the systems and cogen policies matter. So let me put it to you. Why do they matter they matter because if you want the decisions that could Americans in harm's way and put blood earn treasurer on the line like no other? You want those decisions to be fully and well informed you have to have a process that brings multiple perspectives actors to bear including descent in order to get good decisions when that process breaks down. You'RE GONNA get some bad decisions. Michelle Flournoy No. No I former under secretary of defense. Thank you very much you prepare for. Cyber attacks from Iran says says the US government as it anticipates retaliation over the killing of Costume Sulejmani yesterday the US Department of Homeland Security issued guidelines on how US companies and other potential targets can prepare for cyber attacks ex from Iran. Libya mentally do has been following this and is with me in the studio so. DHS's warning about a range of attacks. Here what kind of things are they envisioning. Margot there's a big range of possible tactics here that we've seen Iran us against the US tactics that are meant to intimidate and disrupt. You might remember back in two thousand twelve. The Obama Administration imposed really tough sanctions on Iran's oil industry. Iran responded by hitting Major. US banks with what are called denial of service attacks and this made it hard for people to log into their accounts access their money systems were crashing then a couple of years later Iran targeted and American Casino Company using a so-called wiper attack on what is a wiper attack this is actually one of Iran's main tactics they get into a computer or network and wipe out the data it out completely so I talked to half a dozen cybersecurity experts and they told me that what makes these types of attacks particularly potent is that they let Iran Iran flex its cyber muscles to show that it can cause disruptions and have a direct impact on Americans lives but experts. I spoke with are also really concerned about cyber enabled espionage. Here's John Holt Quist with the cybersecurity company. Fireeye we're going to see an uptake of cyber espionage from running actors who are tasked with gathering intelligence on. What's going to happen next? So they're going to know what the US side is thinking. They're going in order allies thinking. They're they're going to know what the military is doing to prepare. And Lydia. How do run-ins actually do this? Iranians are probably not going to go after entire government agencies or private companies but individual people working for them. Because as you know. It's much easier to manipulate an individual to give you access to a larger system. And historically the way Iranians have conducted cyber espionage is through spearfishing right spearfishing that sending someone an email with a link that has bugging getting them somehow to click on it and then getting access listen all systems that exactly and this is a tactic that the Iranians us a lot and this is where experts say every single one of us could take an action. That would make a difference so being careful about what we click on using two factor authentication backing up our systems. It's all really important Leo. They're also concerns about Iran targeting critical infrastructure power grids and water treatment systems or communications here in the US and causing physical damage. Maybe even shutting off a whole electrical grid. Yes so I spoke about this with Joe Slow at he used to be part of the computer security incident response team at the US Department of Energy. He's now a threat hunter with the cybersecurity company Drago's which focuses on industrial control systems. And I asked him whether he expects Iran to go. After you know the energy sector transportation systems hospitals and other critical infrastructure. We certainly know that Iran has been interested in the space for some time as they have the unfortunate distinction of being the first victim of a industrial control focused Cyber Piper event stuxnet stuxnet of course. was that sophisticated Mauer that the US and Israel were suspected of planting at a uranium enrichment facility in Iran That was two thousand intended really set back. Iran's nuclear efforts it did and stuxnet was also a wakeup call for Iran that it needed to invest in its cyber capabilities. And since. Then we've Seena. Ron Go after critical infrastructure not really in the US but in the Gulf region in two thousand twelve for example Iranian hackers targeted Saudi Aramco. The the world's largest oil producer based in Saudi Arabia they were able to gain access to administrative computers and used a wiper attack to wipe data off some thirty thirty thousand machines. But there's no indication that they were able to get into the industrial control systems that affect the physical oil production process S.. If you have every windows machine in your environment suddenly wiped inaccessible that is a bad thing. No matter how you look at it I at the same time. Nothing that we've seeing approaches the level of using a cyber means to influence a physical process. So the idea of turning off electrical power or a closing water pumps the Iranians don't seem to be quite there yet right and even if they were. It's not clear that they would want to even take a drastic move like that. So finally Lydia how Iran cyber capabilities compared to other countries that might have tried stuff in the past or even the United States the experts I spoke with told me that Iran it doesn't have the cyber capabilities of say Russia China or the US but the US government does see it as a threat It's been years since we saw a major iran-linked Cyberattack iber attack against the US. That's because when the when the nuclear deal was signed in two thousand fifteen Iran kind of eased off on cyber attacks against the US but they've been practicing practising on their neighbors in the Gulf using cyber attacks to destabilise and intimidate regional adversaries so a provocation of the magnitude that we we saw with the killing of Sulejmani last week. Experts suggested to me that it might mean that we see Iran take some steps in cyberspace that we've never seen before there was lydia. Thanks very much thanks marco. Here's a discouraging statistic considering how much effort many of us put into sorting our garbage and getting recyclables where they need to go. Worldwide less than ten percent of the plastic we use gets recycled most ends up in landfills and often makes its way out to sea clogging up our oceans. It's a major problem and yet it's hard to see how it ends. Global demand for plastic is projected to triple by mid century. But what if there was a a better plastic. The world's Jason Margolis has that story. Here's the problem with plastic. It's super useful lightweight and strong smooth and inflexible Beckmann. Dustin Hoffman's character in the graduate was entering the workforce a half century ago. The career advice was simple. One ars listening plastics. But the guy giving advice probably wasn't thinking of all the junk we'd be stuck with two generations later toys. Straws and tiny ketchup pouches. Things that make life more convenient can take hundreds of years to degrade. Here's the other problem. Plastic isn't just plastic. There are hundreds of different kinds of flexible plastic baggie versus a water bottle versus versus rigid. Plastic for your computer keyboard. Most of us just toss it all in the blue recycling bin and say should be okay. The industry has started calling that wish cycling. Susan Collins is the President of the Container Recycling Institute especially with curbside recycling that uses the single stream process where we put all of our recyclables in one been The expression we use a lot is that you can't unscramble an egg. Recycling gets contaminated needed. And then it's trash bound for the landfill still even if you deliver a pristine batch of plastic bottles to the recycler. There's another hurdle explains joins sue SELKE director of the Center for packaging innovation and Sustainability at Michigan State University. Plastics are inherently susceptible optimal to some decrease in their properties when their recycled that leads to this overabundance of plastics in our waste streams and Brett. Helms shows me around his lab in the hills of Berkeley California so these are versions of plastics that are stretchy and elastomer. His team at the Lawrence Berkeley National Lab is designing a new type of plastic. One you can use over and over and over and over what we've created as a plastic that can be eh deconstructed into it's molecular building blocks so a new phone case could later be rebuilt into a watchband or part of a new shoe for not apple and the way that that becomes possible is by designing plastics to degrade with essentially no difference in in quality or performance from the Virgin Resin. Most plastics are not like legos. Once the parts or molecules in this case are snap together. They can't easily be taken apart. But for recycling you need to go in the reverse direction so you need to take these big long chains that may have other things in them And you have to be able to efficiently deconstruct them at the molecular level. ACID allows this new plastic to be deeper. Elim arrived if that makes sense to you awesome if not here are puppets buster and Pong from the. UK's national recycling campaign to explain the ten means it take. Recycling means something new. Maybe rethinking the chemistry of plastic isn't that's simple still. Helms hopes his new plastic encourages other innovators to rethink. How plastic is designed the British newspaper? The Independent pendant asked if this could be the holy grail of plastic. If you think it's the holy grail. You definitely getting prematurely excited. Sue Sulky and Michigan State wants to learn learn more about this new plastic being cooked up in the labs of Berkeley some commercially available. Plastics can already be broken down to the molecular level but the problem with a fat. It's not cheap. It takes more expense more energy usually to do that. What kind of recycling then to just do mechanical recycling? Mechanical recycling is very simply melting down old plastics. To make new ones a cheaper cheaper way but again. You can only do that so many times. But there's more to this plastic debate than just economics. One recent study delivered a sobering sobering statistic if we fail to rethink how we're using plastics by mid century when measured pound for pound there will be more plastic in our oceans then fish for the world. I'm Jason Margolis. You know how sometimes in the course of your day you'll see something something that is unimpressive impressive banal even but for some reason it resonates in just sticks with you. That's what happened to lay a stern when she saw a child sweater. Green with puffed sleeves and Lace Trim Trim. Here's the World Sarah Birnbaum with the story of that sweater. The child who wore it and the woman who made it her mission to preserve it. The first time Laya stern saw the green sweater was at an exhibit about hidden children of the Holocaust. I was really taken by the concept of this tiny child. Having to hide side in the sweater the sweater was worn by a little girl named Christina. Higa who hit with her family and the sewers beneath Love Poland for for fourteen months in one thousand nine forty three in one thousand nine hundred forty four Christina described what it was like in an interview with the show off foundation. He was cerebral. We were sitting on. Wet Slimy Iraq's with warms caroling or over and no light and huge red rats. They had to compete with the rats for food. My father author was sending key on garth tonight with the stake to trying to to scare them because they won't eat the bread because the bread was supposed to be you be for US Cristina. Couldn't bring much with her into the sewer but one thing she did bring was the sweater knitted for her by her grandmother who died in a concentration camp Christina later donated the sweater to the Holocaust Museum in Washington DC. That's where last stern side and she says she just couldn't stop thinking about it. Why did she take that with her? What did it mean to her? was there a pattern for knitting net. Now most people when they see something interesting in a museum they make a mental note or they snap a picture but layup became haunted by the sweater her and the idea of recreating it later came to me and said you have the screen sweater in your collection and I want to create a pattern based on the sweater and I said Oh okay that Susie Snyder. She's a curator at the Holocaust Museum. All I called my sister Adrienne and I said who is a knitter. Her teaches knitting knits. Everything is crazy nigger and I said this woman wants to make a pattern out of this sweater that we have in our collection. That's nuts. Why did he not? I didn't understand it and Adrian. My sister said to me no from a knitting perspective. It's not nuts. So ladd got access to the sweater. It was almost surreal. I couldn't believe that I was actually standing in front of the sweater that I was going to actually touch it that what I was going to turn it over. Turn it inside out thinking about what the sweater and the person wearing it had gone through. It was It was humbling. Lag counted stitches and took copious notes. And from that she was able to reverse engineer a pattern Saturn then. She enlisted her friends and relatives to start knitting prototypes. In the end she had about a dozen sweaters in different shades of green she. She didn't know what the original color was because the sweater had faded so much but there was someone who could tell her. took the train over to Long Island and to Christina's House Christina. He is now in her eighties. A retired dentist living with her husband on Long Island. New York layup brought all the different sweaters with her so Christina could choose the one that was most like the sweater. Her Grandmother had made for her Christina pointed to the vibrant loomed green one. It's not what I would have guessed. But it's what she said. This is just the color that it was and it was much brighter than what the sweater looks like. Now and she picked it up and she held up to her and she said now I have my sweater back. Last pattern is for sale at the Holocaust Museum. Gift shop up and on popular knitting website called rivalry with all the proceeds going to the museum. She's heard from hundreds of Niggers who are making the sweater here in the US the US and also in Norway Ireland Israel the UK. She's heard from people like Rene Silberman in Ontario Canada. Who can't wait to get started on the project might needles are hot? They're ready amazing rene making the sweater for her eight year old granddaughter. Annika Annika as a way to teach her about the Holocaust. It's maybe an easy way for a child to come to understand history and I think it will show my granddaughter they. They tremendous endurance. That people had even troubled times. It took me a long time to understand why so many people were making the sweater. I mean the sweater. Look sweet but it's dated. But then Rene said she gravitated to the sweater because it's a symbol of hope which is unusual for an artifact artifact from the Holocaust I like the sweater because it's a sweater that survived as did its owner and it's an act of love an act of love when Christina's grandmother knitted it for her in nineteen thirty nine an act of love when Laya recreated it to keep Christina's memories alive and an act of love when Rene will give it to her own granddaughter to teach her about survival for the world. I'm Sarah Birnbaum. The MacLean Brothers of Edinburgh Scotland aiming to set a world record the fastest trio to ever row across the Atlantic. The tasker whiskey Atlantic challenge is reputed is is one of the most difficult tests of endurance on the planet. More people have been in space road three thousand miles from the Canary Islands to Antiga but Lachlan. UN and Jamie me Mcclain's they are up for it. They even got a team name. The bror brothers as in Bro. And yeah go ahead. Grown Jamie Maclean. Says they're doing well now over halfway through their journey so the start of the race was actually some of the roughest conditions. We've had so far. We were stirring defend a baptism of wind and waves leaves those maybe twenty foot waves in twenty five thirty knot winds we sort of went in somewhat naively just embraced it and that worked advantage pitch. Morale is surprisingly high. He spoke on a satellite phone. There the world record bid requires the brothers to be a strict schedule. Someone always needs to be rowing the high tech boat. It's even tricked out with solar panels where always strapped to the boats twice or seven. We have approximately four hours sleep and then the rest of the four ours is split up into two on one off on the ors very very little time duress wits about times Jamie says he and his brothers have been astonished just by how well they've been doing over the past twenty five days probably one of our grace takings from it is how the human body can went and such adverse conditions just adapts. The body just puts up with it and even manages to thrive the Bror Brothers estimate. It'll be another twelve days before they reached their goal Antiga and that does the world on this Tuesday from the Nanna Bill Harra studio at W. G. B. H.. Here in Boston. I'm Marco Werman see back here tomorrow. The world is a CO production of W. G. B. H. Boston the the B._B._C.. World Service and Pierre.
226 - 50 Hour Days
"This is exactly right. Hello and welcome to my favorite murder the podcast. Thursday podcast, right? That's carrying kill Sarah. That's George, Heart Star Kyw and she is say one year older. And I say. Forty years fucking right, that's. Right Dr Done. How it feel, it feels fine I, feel like you're dozen easier for figuring out who you WanNa be thirties are trying to achieve that end your forties are for Fuckin- enjoying it. You know for pills. That's that's my whole life. For is for upping your intake of pill rate great. My sister told me that I always all I'm ever doing his accusing people being on pills. Says that person was clearly on pills. We're watching a lot of viral videos stuff there on pills. She's like you say that about everybody. You're probably right half the time. At least I think I think. I am though a lot of people use a lot and I don't mean like meds. They need and standard stuff I mean like pills probably shouldn't be on. Oh okay. Pills that make them think they should go up to other people and seven eleven and tell them things that aren't true. That kind of stuff. Oh, then there's a fucking shit. People on pills You're right. You're right there on Karen. Pills is what they're on. Also. Just you know not to get off your birthday, but. Very quickly. GET OFF IT I. don't care that they call people Karen. Seem to feel the need to defend Mir's. It has nothing to do with me, I mean. Sometimes I can Karen out for sure, but yeah, it's not Seat to be scrawling on twitter and like see people yelling at you. Don't take it that way when I Like Joran. State and when I see like news from Georgia. That's always fucking negative I'm like sorry, it's not me. You have a series voter suppression issue. Georgia. Sick it i. want everyone to vote twice. I'm provost. Wait what that's even another. I am pragmatic. I actually just started following this account on twitter. Black votes matter who were completely on that that whole thing that happened I believe it was in Atlanta right. And they went out aside from of course obviously reporting, it's everybody that needed to know about it. And getting the word out. They also went and started giving those. There are people who waited in line for twelve hours to vote twelve hours. They didn't get out of there to like eleven o'clock at night and black votes, matters went, and we were handing out like pizza and water to people and stuff like helping them. Stay in line to vote. Yeah, it's beautiful. Yeah, but it has to stop. A has to change. Yeah, and Georgia needs to Georgia better. Get Your Shit together better George Better Georgia please. They'll do it. My that's Karen. What did you did you hang on zoom with the FAM- on your birthday? What did you? Do. You want it doesn't matter was my fortieth birthday in quarantine rented a bunch of Nice things. I actually cried multiple times for real. It was like a very nice thoughtful. Bokram didn't like touched way. Yes, or not guess, dump your feet. Way Like Oh shit. She's having a forty year old Tantrum Cheryl way. Were all touched ways. Oh, we can. Did you get something like really nice? Is there anything you want to share with us that he got for you? You're always at like. He did because he knew I didn't want like one of those drive by wave of Georgia. Birthday thanks. Of Choice. Yeah. Right like wavy. Drive by thinking I'm like. Not so instead he reached out to just a couple longtime, close girlfriends, and asked them to send to give him a name title of book. That meant a lot to them. And he'd get a by the book local bookstores everyone, and then he said we gave it to me unread what the book meant to them and my? Thought. I would like it and so just. This like really sweet like you know I know you love this so this I got you this book. That's beautiful is really lovely, and so I definitely cried. They're just like a lot of I. I have I have lovely people in my life I'm very lucky yet, looting! You do make so much, did you? Did you also cry because he can't read? You can't read any trading. I tried to eat the book I thought he was going. I have to ruin the moment Georgia. Tales? To bring the Karen Element to the George of story. So and thank you to everyone. Of course, the birthday wishes no. It's not a midst of can. You know train wreck happening in the world. People took the time to say happy birthday to me and that was very nice of you. I you listen. It's you know what you had this year. Your Forty S in June of twenty twenty is like the most historical year kind of today. This big shit going down. This is the biggest day. Let's ever happened in our lives life. Yeah, on the face. It feels negative, but there's this undercurrent. It's very stressful and difficult for a lot of people and really. You know it's also there's there's a lot of people really scared and. But then there's also there's just this kind of epic change. Feel to it right like. I've never seen political action like this in my life. It's incredible and I'm fifty. Now bragging. I've seen some Shit I was there when MTV was invented in. This is bigger than that. Let's see. What do we have well I would please like to talk about a woman named Unequal Charles. Who wrote the song? You'RE GONNA lose your, job. That is now the number one hit of the summer. Look it up right now. If you haven't seen it yet, but you probably know what we're talking. You know what we're talking about. It's kind of like a protesters anthem now an amazing. Yesterday I read, there is a buzzfeed article. They tracked her down and it is the most beautiful story of her family. Seeing this video, go viral first of all the security guard that made the video. The guy that's in it That's holding her hand. Her arm in the video is the guy who originally posted it. WHOA, and he any posted it and said. First of all. I want to say I am not making fun this person. I honestly think this song is e somewhere. He smirks in it Oh. Yeah, he thinks it's great. Yeah, and he's the one that posted it. Yeah! But then it's like you know so I love that that he's kind of He's in on it a little bit. Yeah, and it was due respect of like. It's a jam. It's the head of the summer. It's such a good song, and then they've set. They've set up a go fund me for her. Also she has event. Mo- that's at get this dance. Yeah it's it's just a beautiful story. And now she's reunited with her family and read the buzzfeed article around the buzzfeed article. They did a great job. Give her name again Geneva Charles. Okay perfect I think that someone should do ringtones and she should get all the money for the ring. Tell Rhianna or she should just go straight to like YouTube with it. Yeah, whatever's best best for her. Yeah, and then go on my lottery. Dream Home, 'cause I love that show. Joe Is your. House. Oh my God. We found. There's a channel. Sister Watch the channel of it's literally called the the wealth Chandler's. I swear to God and it basically is like it's these. It's basically rich people programming, and so they show like houses that are for sale on them like the most echoes of Hawaiian Islands that are like on the waterfront, Tha that kind of style and is it all narrated in slow Mo.. like tours through houses Oh, my God, but the satisfying thing is because of course. Everyone loves a nice aspirational. TV Show where you can just be like ooh. What if we lived in that house? But it's so fun when you do. Get the tour of the house in it. Suber Janke the furniture INCI as trash central. It makes you feel like it. It's such a great like you're like I so much better taste than that billionaire. Feeling Yeah I'm sorry. Oh I don't have eight hundred fucking barn doors all over my house. Or like a statue, like a kind of a random Venus statue where it's just like it, why is that in the hallway? So I do have a correction corner because last week when I was talking about the stonewall uprising, and I kind of theorized, and hopefully clearly enough that I was like well. The Mafia are the ones that owned it, so they were. Were trying to take advantage blow-black Kinda theorized about what why. I thought the Mafia was involved and got a couple emails including Denton. Who runs our website and his are? He's our merch master on our website guy. The the reason that that was owned by the Genevisi or genevieve's an get I'm family now Jennifer. What was your guest Geno? VI's genevieve sounds. Well there's a woman an agenda vs who was married to a mob boss, who was a lesbian she. She bought those I. Think because I can't sorry, I can't I scan this email? But it was basically like she bought it, so she could have a place to safely hang out. Oh, my Gosh, and despite her husband who she divorced is like a whole story, and so look into it. It's really cool, so it's all the things that I was afraid of like people being taken advantage of or whatever it's like a different. It's a different reasons. Total indifferent. Hang so look up Anna, Anna. And learned the story of why L.. The gay bars were owned by the Mafia. It's actually borderline heartwarming. It's really nice it's probably best not to speculate about the Mafia. I don't know why I just seem to need to like. Poke the bear. Yeah, that's my staff was my one correction. Okay, speaking of whatever. So talking. So we're really excited, because we have this, my favorite murder logo, black and white pen, it's like cool enamel pen that was in the shop and our merch store at my favorite dot com, and all the proceeds of that was going to rain, and it completely sold out, which was so awesome I. Think we have about ten thousand dollars terrain. Yeah, so it's back in stock, and so we get to pick a new charitable organization to give one hundred percent of the proceeds to and so you WANNA announce them the black, emotional and mental health collective, which is basically this It's a group of mental health professionals of all type, so it's therapist, but it's also like yoga teachers and. It's all kinds of people that are there to help black people, and in any kind of like therapeutic whatever kind of support they might need. especially at a time like this and I think that's that's the thing that I keep seeing on social media. That's really it's really something and think about is the intense impact like it's easy for me to talk about. Oh this is such a great time of political upheaval. Very very trying triggering time. Yeah, it's weighing on. People and people definitely feel like they're in peril and They're risk and they're exhausted and they're sick of this bullshit and. That's when you need. there. Be the most, so it's amazing that they have this collective and we're really excited because that's you know. Obviously therapies are thing so to have a dedicated place that has that is basically a bunch of professionals together. That are aiming toward really helping out. black people get the help they need and the support. They need in a time like this. Yeah, that's Meh the website. The website is www. Do you have to say that any now? You don't that anymore. wanted to tell you don't WanNa be like don't had to do that anymore. A lot of times I'm doing it to sound old. I Fed. Yeah, but then sometimes I'm worried because I used to also say H., T., t., p., colon. And, but this is The website is dot community, so go onto that website and check out the services that they have there. It's very. It's a really wide span. Yeah, Oh, and you know. Speaking of I wanted just to really quickly. Acknowledge. something that's that has been really important to us for a long time, which is making the exactly right podcasting network represent all people, especially people of Color. That's been really important to us. We have shows in the pipeline that we're really excited to have on the network, but it's been a much slower process, so it's in the works totally fucking agree. Agree and we since the beginning of the PA the network we have wanted to make sure that we have diverse voices. Please rest assured that we have great shows coming up. That will be reflecting our awareness of importance, and the the importance of just having like a bunch of different people represented that you will see it. Yes, mortar come in twenty twenty A. Twenty twenty one at the latest. To defending, but they like this next slew the next slate of shows. You will see the things we've been working on for. A year or year and a half and you'll see. that. You have anything else. Do I have anything else you watching anything did you will do you watch everything, my sister and I? We were planning on starting to watch ozark because every dinner last night. Everyone is just like that's the. That's the show bench. Everyone loves it. I have a suggestion on Netflix. There's a like little documentary called Crip camp. Did you see it known? It's so touching. You need an story right now. It's a really great one. It It's about a camp for people with disabilities. Yeah, and you know from the I think. Think it was the eighty s and how they came together, and it's just really beautiful. Oh cool I think I saw that people are raving about how good it is at Camp Yeah Oh last night. Everyone was giving recommendations and basically everyone. in my family is We're going to watch thirteenth that I've been hearing. A ton of people talk about that. I think that's the that's the next book in our book club is everyone. Go Watch that on net flicks because it's supposed to be incredible in really lays out a lot of the stuff that like. You know everyone's kind of getting a really fast. Education has out about how people have been. How Black America has been forced to live for so long and we have been. Willfully blissfully ignorant about it, and it's really nice, because a lot of people are interested in not being that way anymore I know that I don't know if they would normally have been that way, totally or acknowledge cool that we all have those tendencies, and it's ingrained in our society, so if none of us are. Infallible because you know. We were raised in in the school system, and in this second government and the justice system so. All we can do is. Is a get better. Yeah, there's so many resources to do that. You know like the criterion channel cash taken the paywall off, so you can go watch like black directors. They've done a whole thing now. Where that's just kind of open so that people go and specifically watch black film, which I as I was looking at that I'd heard of like two or three of these movies, whereas like so I guess you'd have to be specifically like a like A. Junior, yeah, yeah, you'd have to be very specifically in the know about film to have stumbled on these movies, and now they're just like putting it on the front and go. Hey, don't don't go rent the the help and tell yourself you've done anything. Take coloring your hair at home to the next level with Madison Reed, he deserved gorgeous. Professional hair-color delivered to your door, starting at just twenty two dollars for decades, women have had two options for coloring your hair either outdated at home, color or the time and expense of a traditional salon. Many Madison. Reed clients comment on her. Their new hair-color has improved their lives Lynn loved the results, gorgeous, shiny, multidimensional and healthy looking hair. 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It's still like really nice nuanced color, so you're not just getting that block color I do that sometimes when I do like the APP store boxed. And it is like I always say look like the my pillow. Guy Like you need those nuances, and you need other stuff going on a madison. Reed knows how to do it. That's right. Find your perfect shade at Medicine Dash. Reed Dot, com and our listeners get ten percent off plus free shipping on their first color kit with code M. F. M. Ten. That's code MFM. Ten at Madison Dash Reed Dot Com go by. Karen Yes Georgia I was thinking that being stuck at home is a good opportunity to take inventory of our closet. That's very true. You know Rolla all the styles and pieces that you realize you're missing turned to read up where you'll find a vast selection, low prices and convenience that's right. Threat Up is the world's largest online thrift store with up to ninety percent of estimated retail. 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But in the first couple of days of the protests there those pictures of Ainhoa say it was like day two or three, and then there was the photo pictures of cops of videos cops kneeling with protesters during the day. Yes, and people were re tweeting that and being like. Oh look good news kind of right. There's cops out there, too. And then a lot of people came back and said basically that's COPPA Ganda and don't because those same cops that are kneeling during the day are beating the living shit out of protesters at night like it's. It was really surprising and it. It was the kind of thing that I think is very much like when you just want the uncomfortable bad part to be over your here, look. Everyone's getting along again. And I think it's a natural human reaction. It's you know it's basically saying it's all settled down. Don't worry about right But that was not the case, and and people then even started like brought back up and started re tweeting the picture that was from the two thousand fourteen protests which was a fourteen year old black boy, named Devante, heart, who is crying and hugging cop in Portland Oregon, and that was from the Michael Brown protests and that got circulated. And then very quickly people came in and said if you don't know the background of this story and this boy's life, you better look it up because they do not tweet this picture. And the first person that I saw that I was just like Oh my God, because I had listened to lots of podcasts and read lots about it, and it is a devastating and horrible story. One of the more shocking true crime stories there is an it's the story of Devante hurt and the murder suicide of the heart family. Do, that's what I'm doing this week. Wow! Yeah have I think it's like it's heavy? It's that kind of thing like if people have to know, hopefully that those when these things happen, it is that it's a fake band aid that it's a momentary makes every in momentarily makes everybody Kinda. Feel better on the today show and you know all the anchors can be like that's what a beautiful moment, and then yeah, in the old kind of pattern that we had when everybody worked and left their house in the morning and worked forties fifty hour days and You, know just we're always trying to distract. Themselves were exhausted and. PRECOR as I like to call it. Nobody wanted to take the time to kind of go any further than that just wanted things to be okay. Yeah, it's not okay. And we gotta deal, and and we allows as we can't go by the way we were because it's just unacceptable, and were or literally teetering on the brink of authoritarianism, like we're teetering on the brink, a who've been seen like military action on our own citizens of America that's beyond most people's like. The scope of our magic. Totally yeah. People like the propaganda that tells them that everything's okay, because then they can blame you know the citizens and the protesters for the military action. Even though you know, it's bullshit, it's propaganda I love the term. COPPA Ganda Cub Ganda Soga Yeah? It's it's. It's trying to elicit emotion from you so that you will you know. Not Care not give a shit. Yeah, so like that happened the first day of a protest in La I remember because I was watching it, I couldn't go down there. I was to scaled. Be Honest. I was too scared because of corona virus. I was like I, can't. I'd been by myself for three months. I'M NOT GONNA. Go stand in a big group in Take my chances. As I, watched it on twitter. People were going okay. This is a three hours of completely quiet peaceful protests. That's actually really positive and beautiful, and they come after three hours they come upon an old fashioned cop car in an intersection that with no cops anywhere, and it's like an old kind of tourists like nineties, model cop car old, and it's just sitting there, and then all the sudden someone lights it on fire, and I kind standing around specific. There's a video of the specific people. Yeah, and so everyone is kind of standing around like what this and then now the nightly news helicopter. Helicopter shot of a protest with all these thousands of people, and then a burning cop car, which when I saw that first of all the people it was people I knew and people that like they were just like. Hey, we need to say this. This is super weird. This car just showed up. Yeah, like we're on the ground there on the ground reporters basically going people need to sight this. This is not like in also like a burning cop cars. What happens at the end of Lake Lake a hockey, right? You know what I mean like a champion. A championship team when Riley. Star, ready to buy a ministries to am. It's like somebody's got their shirt off, and they're fucked up and scream. We email bringing their children to these protests and they're Dr Bags. That's not. It's not. They don't even have matches. They all use vapes. Probably it's. It's three o'clock in the after suck in noon. They'll one is. COP cars on fire, but on the same thing happened in Seattle. It was daytime cop car on fire where you're like I don't buy it I. Don't I just don't buy it, but then that's the thing of looters. Then they start drinking looters and appropriate examined. That are randomly sitting out outside of. fucking nowhere, or did you see the video of the woman who? Some kids are driving around in a in a Burgundy Jeddah and they're handing bricks to black kids out. The window in this woman goes about walks it back display. Woman comes up to the car and is like what the fuck do you think you're doing that so disrespectful? Don't go out. Don't go around here handing out to people. What are you trying to do and they're like going? No, no, no, it's fine, and it's that that whole thing of. It's fucking agitators so that Your Opinion Jin provocateur and so that your stepbrother fucking David can sit in his fucking living room and feel justified about what his what you're. Our country's doing to our citizens. Because of this you know because of so-called like lueders not to say there wasn't looting or damage there absolutely was. That wasn't the that wasn't the story that wasn't. That wasn't a majority of what was happening. And then what about the thing in New York? Where they tried to say that there was two points one million dollars worth of stuff stolen out of a jewelry store, and then that owner of that jewelry store came forward and said we don't display jewelry in the window. At night, nothing was stolen and everyone's just like. Oh like like that Kinda shit where people are like. Do you see what we've been saying this whole time about this kind of like the topic optics propaganda to make the average quote unquote person. Basically turn against a movement like that. That's real so mind. It's totally in my story to Oak. It's yeah when the when government doesn't respect journalists. Then can trust any anything any information. You're getting right unless it's from a trusted source. The framework is all. Yeah, it's it's it's. We're in a very unprecedented time right now as this is one of the earliest versions of that and it's. Anna's dark as it is on the face of it of just what it was, it's it's much sadder and worse deep down, so majority of this information is from the New York Times the Seattle Times and the New York. Times article is by a writer named Matt Stevens specifically. The OREGONIAN The Guardian and investigation discovery Dot Com on August, ninth, twenty, fourteen eighteen year old Michael. Brown is shot six times and killed by Ferguson Missouri Police Officer Dan, Darren Wilson and this murder sparks outrage, obviously in Ferguson and it ignites over a week of protests against police brutality protesters chant the phrase hands up. Don't shoot Michael's final words. When reports of these protests are short shown on the news most Americans are shocked at the violence, the brutality and heavy militarization of the police force and their tactics. I shouldn't say most people are shocked. I should say White America is shocked him but I don't think a lot of us knew that they had fucking tanks, and that they were willing to use them right so this leads to an investigation into Darren Wilson's actions, but on November twenty fourth same year when the Saint Louis County, grand jury does not indict Darren Wilson for Michael Brown's murder. People of course are outraged and the protests start again, but. But this time it's all across the nation, so of course they do protest in Portland Oregon and during a November twenty fifth protests, a twelve year, old boy named Devante heart he's he's there, and he's wearing a sign around his neck. That says free hugs a port of Portland police sergeant, WHO's working? The protests seized devante sign calls him over. They talk they shake hands, and at some point Devante who is clearly stressed and upset begins to cry. And so this police sergeant points to Demonte, Sinan says can I have one of those and they hug freelance photographer Johnny Newin snaps a photo of this moment, and then he sells it to the Oregonian and it immediately goes viral. It shared hundreds of thousands of times on social media. It's on ABC. News CBS News the today show. It's even referenced in a sketch that week on Saturday night live. an when the Oregonian Davante why he was giving free hugs at the protest. He's said that he was quote trying to show piece that there was a different way to handle it now. While Devante as intentions as a twelve year old boy are very noble critic. See the photo as propaganda that detracts from the real issue at hand, which is the constant and unprosecuted murder of unarmed black citizens by the police. Guardian writer Jonathan Jones explains it this way. He says a picture does not have to be staged to be ally. It just has to be massively under representative of the wider facts and enthusiastically promoted to iconic status. In a way that obscures those fat. Wow, yeah, so the popularity of devante photo draws both positive and negative attention to the family. One of Dante's MOMS Jen heart tells the Oregonian that their family has been receiving death threats because of it, and they begin limiting their time in public and they do. They do their best to keep a low profile. But, what's interesting is up until that point. That's exactly the opposite of what Jen and her wife Sarah have been doing with their kids on social media. Let's talk about the beginning of the heart family Jenin. Sarah Hart and Sarah's maiden name was gambler. Originally from South Dakota Jen's from Huron and Sarah is from big stone city. They meet in college after they both transferred to Northern, State University in Aberdeen, and they're both studying to become teachers. Only Jen graduates and both of their college careers, or officially over in two thousand two, while they're dating at northern state, they are met with a lot of bigotry so in two thousand and four. They decide to move to Alexandria Minnesota. So this is before same sex marriage was legalized. Sarah goes to court in two thousand and five to have her last name legally changed to heart, and then that summer Jenin Sarah decided to become foster parents, and they end up taking in a sixteen year old girl so when this girl would later be interviewed as an adult by the Seattle, times she asked. Asked to remain anonymous. Oh, just refer to her as the sixteen year old girl basically so. She said that she'd been difficult to control as a teen, she skipped school. She snuck out with friends and middle of the night She's sounds like every teenager I knew and was She wasn't happy in her old foster home so when she's placed with the. The hearts. She's totally ready to make a new start and the first six months go well. She notices Sarah is the more quiet of the two, and Jen is more outgoing and also Moodier, but overall things seem to be normal, so they all live in a two story house with a with a dog and several cats. They take family camping trips. They go to concerts. Concerts festivals, they go to sporting events together, but aside from that doing stuff with her two moms. This girl is not allowed to go out with her friends. She can only go to school and go to her job at subway, which was a little odd a little strict. I would say, but then more things start happening. That are making her kind of uncomfortable for example. Jenin Sarah Taker to the department store. They both work at for her to get a makeover, but she is. This girl is a tomboy and she's not interested in it, and she doesn't WanNa and she makes that very clear, but they insist she gets it anyway. So there's another time where they go to a Green Bay packers game together, and they bring footballs each bring football, hoping that they'll get them signed by a player specifically by Jen's favorite player running back Ahman. Green and actually the girl gets on to sign her football, but only hers. And as she. Says quote. It turns into a huge fiasco with jen accusing her that she had done it to be a brat. And so then June gives her the silent treatment for several days, wow! Yeah. So then in early That's just the kind of thing we're like. Is it me as you The vibe is weird like what's going on because that's not parent behavior now. In early two thousand six, the hearts make a big decision. They decide they want to adopt children and they include their foster daughter in the discussion They tell her to get ready to be a big sister. and eventually two sets of siblings come up to that are available for adoption, so Jenin Sarah travel down to Colorado County Texas to meet the kids and everyone is excited than in late February a week before the kids are to be placed in the Hearts Home Jenin Sarah take their foster daughter to a therapy appointment and Walsh's in this therapy employment. She finds out from her therapist that she's being moved to a new foster family. It's. That Day Holy Shit, so she's driven to the new foster home and when she gets there, all her stuff is already there holy crap and his shirl matic. Yes, and she never sees Jenner. Sarah again I'm like. Yeah when they're later asked why they gave their foster daughter up, genzer would tell people that the teen had suicidal idealization and threats, and that they did not want her quote. Negative energy to impact their children, Yikes but according to the now adult foster child. She has no idea why they let her go. The says none of those things. Those things were true about her. Wow, yeah, so that's our first big red flag. That's about as big as a red flag. Just giving up a child, because it's not a because, you WANNA Beasley start over yeah family, just like abandoning them at the fucking therapists to deal, and also it's a child that's already dealt with abandonment a child that's already told prices like that. It's horrible the okay, so on March. Fourth two thousand six three children from Colorado County Texas Abigail H, three Hannah Age, four Marcus Age, eight, our place in the hearts, care and six months later. They're adoptions finalized during that first year. Jen and Sarah Complete fifteen hours of training on topics like helping abused kids in. In Care Heal and something called racial diversity excitement, which basically trains people who are adopting children of different ethnicities to be proud of where they come from, and who they are. The case worker assigned to the heart family reports the Jenin. Sarah are great parents and she recommends that she recommends them to then adopt a second of siblings so in June of two thousand eight. They do just that Devante age six Jeremiah, age four and Sierra h three all move from Houston Texas to join the Hart family in Alexandria Minnesota Wow so they all six children now. Six, children, and these kids, mom, Devante, Jeremiah and Sarah's mom had addiction issues, and they had been living with their aunt. and their mom wasn't legally allowed to see them, and then a caseworker finds out the aunt is leading the mother mother visit, so all three children get taken away from the ant. Oh God. Yeah, which is. Horrible. Yeah I, mean it's so it's. It's so punitive in horrible. Totally so the next year two thousand nine same sex marriage becomes legal in certain states, so Jenin Sarah go to Connecticut and they get married and afterwards. They announced that Sarah's trying to get pregnant. A donor, yes, so they already have six kids, and now they're. Sarah's trying to get pregnant. Unfortunately, the plan doesn't work. They never end up having biological children so back in Minnesota. Sarah has a job as a manager in a department store and Jen is now a stay at home, mom and to their neighbors and co workers and their friends. The heart family seems to have a a really beautiful tight bond. They preach love and acceptance in unity. They go camping together. They go hiking together. They grow their own food. and they're very agendas active on social media when facebook comes along, she is. It and posting videos of the children constantly in all of their activities. And all of the different things that they do, and they basically are this beautiful example of this modern family to lesbian moms and six adopted black kids, but in September of two thousand eight, a teacher at the kids school notices that now six year old Hannah has bruises on her arm. So when the teacher asks her where they're from Hannah says that her mom whipped with a belt. ultimately no charges are filed, but Sarah Hall all of the kids out of the out of school home homeschool them over the next year, so the next school year two thousand nine Jenin. Sarah put the kids back into public school, but in November of twenty ten. The now seven year old Abigail tells her teachers about the always that she has on her back in her stomach. She tells them that her mom. Jen held her head underwater while punching hitting her because Abigail had a penny and Jen thought she stole it. Also God of course teachers reported his interview the kids they all report having been spanked and having food withheld from them as a punishment. When authorities interviewed, Jenin Sarah Sarah takes all the blame and in twenty eleven she pleads guilty to misdemeanor domestic assault and she gets a year of community service. And this, despite the fact that the children's basically say, jen is the one that's the most abusive the one who others take any responsibility for it yet, your. fucked up. Yeah, so later. That Year Hannah complaints to a school nurse that she's hungry. She tells her she hasn't been fed all day. The nurse calls. Sarah, who tells her, Hannah. is quote playing the Food Card? Just give her water. So yeah, so after this incident Sarah, Jen pull all the kids out of school for a second time, and from then on the heart, children are only home schooled. They never go back to regular school again. Then in twenty thirteen, the hearts leave Minnesota, and they move fifteen hundred miles away to the Portland suburb of West Linn Oregon, and they're they keep their natural peace-loving appearances. They raise goats and chickens in the yard of the rental house. They go to music. Festivals and Yoga retreats as a family again. Jan documenting it on facebook. And there's one video. I watched in. It was such a bummer There's this video that she posted and they were at At this thing called the beloved festival and it looks pretty hippyish looks pretty. You know kind of peace in love. Hippie Shin which is sorry. That's very negative, but so. Essentially, this is like a video that kind of foreshadows, the the viral photo that will be coming the next year. Essentially devante as wearing a zebra costume. Any has the word love shoved into his head and during a performer named excavator. He's on stage like sitting crosslegged, and he's kind of chanting like our Cappella, and it. Clearly, it's like one of the Yoga More Yoga Eve. Vessels I would assume yeah, and as he's doing it. You hear the audience start to go on like that, and here comes Devante, wearing his free hugs sign in as little in zero costume, and he walks up in hugs. This guy as he's chanting. And the guy like smiles and hugs him back and Vont doesn't let go, and this hug goes on for like two minutes, and it's very upsetting like if you watch the video, it looks like Devante, either crying or about to start crying and he won't let go was holding onto the stranger. Yeah, and it seems to me, and this is purely editorial, but that singer is is it starts out cute, and then he can feel that. This is like a child that needs a hug very badly that like it just and maybe it's just because. Knowing the whole story, but it's a very It's a very sad upsetting video, but it also was, it became like they became this family that was known at these festivals and known as at these you know these mea, or whatever is like the two lesbian moms and their kids, and so so that's the presentation of like the world. Care Peace and love peace and love, but it's like. But kind of there is that element of your parading your children around? There your props. Because there's another picture that I saw, and it had its jen and she has devante. Older with his free hug sign, and so it's just like look at my child and look at how. I. Don't know I guess. I rouses. Give us. Accolades. Yeah Yeah. So in which is look that's fine, but you know, but then the idea that then behind the scenes. It was like a fucking nightmare for those kids. It's horrifying, so the thing is that the hearts Oregon neighbors are skeptical they they are surprised at how small the children seem for their age. Is They also notice that the kids? They never see the kids being like loud or boisterous, or in any way like even Bradey. Like anything you see a normal kid like six kids piling out of a car. They say the kids all act like trained robots and more disturbing there clearly afraid of Jenn. In two thousand thirteen someone like an anonymous caller calls the Oregon Department of Human Services and reports that the kids pose, and are made to look like one big happy family, but right after the photo they go back to looking lifeless she. Yes so when child services interviews the family. Sarah and Jen say that this is bigotry that people don't understand their modern family dynamic that they're being. It's prejudice and they don't like the fact that they're lesbians are that they have a family and that's really what's happening when the kids are interviewed and when they're asked how they feel about their home life, they all say tell the social workers. They're happy, but their expressions are lifeless in. They don't seem happy at all but because there's no overt evidence of abuse, child services closes the case so two years later when Devante becomes a viral sensation, because of his free hugs photo, the Hart family now be becomes the subject of national attention and it's much more. More than Sarah and Jen want or are prepared for. devante gets offers from TV shows to be guest, but then they're also getting these death threats according to Jan, so the family decides, they had enough of the spotlight so in spring of two thousand seventeen. They move again and this time it's to woodland Washington to get to basically get away from the commotion Their New Neighbors are a couple named Bruce and Dana. dekalb, and the cowboys are very excited to get to know their new neighbors in this big bustling family, but they soon find out. It's not as easy. Easy as they thought it would be. The hearts in their children are usually inside the house with the blinds drawn most of the time, and when the neighbors do see them outside. They're not very social until a couple months later in August when the DEKALB's here and knock on their door at one thirty in the morning. It's Hannah. Hart and she's saying that she just dropped jumped out of her second story window. Her two front teeth are missing. They think she's like six or seven years old. She's fourteen years old while and she says to the DEKALB's. Don't make me go. Go back there. They're racist and they abuse us. She begs the couple to take her to Seattle, but before dekalb's can even figure out what's happening. Jen and Sarah show up at their front door. My God yeah, Jen asked to speak to Hannah privately upstairs, so they go into a separate room and then pretty soon after they come downstairs and they apologize, and they all leave, and then the next day the three of them come back and they've made Hannah right. An apology to the DEKALB's, and they explain that Hannah is bipolar and that she was upset because her cat died. And that she knocked her own teeth out in an accidental fall, and basically that was the thing. Apparently the they would say Jan would tell people these are drug babies, and so they're difficult sometimes anytime, people would be suspicious or anything it would be. She would use this drug baby. Excuse later. Dana dekalb would tell the New York Times. She was just. Just so convincing about John and Jen's excuses, and of course, the couple are left with a terrible feeling about their new neighbors, but after that strange night anytime, Dana in dekalb would try to speak to the heart children. They would not respond to her until six months later. The now fifteen year old devante shows up at the DEKALB's door, asking for food. And as Bruce feeds him, devante nervously asked him not to tell his parents. Bruce assures him he won't and then Devante visits. Visits, his neighbors for food like it's a weekly occurrence. He even leaves a wishlist of food. He wished like wants to have. And he asked them to leave groceries in the hidden box by the fence, so his mom's won't catch him. Oh, my, so this goes on for a little while dekalb's are of course totally torn. They don't WanNa. Break their promise to Devante, but they know that these children need. Need help so finally on March twenty, third, two, thousand, eighteen, they call child protective services, the Abbot do it but when a case worker shows up at the hearts house for a home check, no one answers the door and then the next day. The DEKALB's notice at the heart family car, which is a Yukon SUV is not in the driveway and the on that same day. Sarah's CO workers get. Get a text from her, saying that she sick and she won't be able to come into work tomorrow so two days later on the morning of Sunday March Twenty Fifth Gen. Heart is captured on a safeway. Security Camera in Fort. Bragg, California buying groceries and this is the last time anyone will see her. Alive. On Monday May Twenty Sixth Twenty Eighteen California police get a call at around three thirty eight. Eight PM from a German tourist. WHO's passing through? Mendocino county on highway one. It's kind of. It's just north of Fort Bragg in near a town called Westport, and she reports seeing an upside down suv at the bottom of a cliff huck. When officers arrived on the scene, they find the bodies of Jenn Heart in the driver's seat and Sarah Hart wedged between the smash roof and the rear seats. A search of the crash site continues for three weeks, and during that time the remains of three of the kids. Marcus nineteen, Jeremiah Fourteen and Abigail fourteen are all found near the SUV. the body of Sierra who's now. Twelve is found on the beach north of the crash site. It takes them a year to find fifteen year old Hannah's body. When they finally do find the skeletal remains in May of twenty eighteen. Her biological mother comes to give DNA. Can confirm that it is Hannah which is just devastating fifteen year old avantis body is never recovered. The crash is initially thought to be an accident. And I remember when these reports came out, and it was the accident because it was nor its northern. California so right, you know that it kind of broke up there I, but then the investigators notice there's no skid marks at the scene or any other indications that Jen tried to stop a car in any way. And then when the toxicology report comes back, it shows that Jen was drunk at the time of the crash, she'd had like the equivalent of about five beers. And that Sarah and at least two of the kids. had dicussion Hydra mean in their system, which is the active ingredient and Benadryl causes drowsiness. So when Sarah's phone records are recovered, this is when they know that it was not an accident. Because Gender Rove Sarah Google searched the phrases. How can I dose on over the counter? Medication can five hundred milligrams of Benadryl one hundred twenty five pound woman, and how long does it take to die from hypothermia while drowning in a car? What the fuck they so they? They realized they fully knew what they are doing. And when the cars this, this type of car has like a black box like computers writing and when they recover that an get the information from it. The the car speed at the time of the accident. It was going around ninety miles an hour, and there was no use of the brakes. Whatsoever Shit So. Basically Jen. Basically probably got drunk to to work up the courage to do this and the and then Sarah and the kids. Took a bunch of Benadryl, so they would be either asleep or Drowsy, and then she drove off one hundred foot, high cliff and killed her family in a murder. Hits you fucking do that. How could do it steer tour? How could you even bring your fucking self? y'All do that. It's it's. I mean and even wrap my head around that. It's so insanely bizarre, but clearly this things that were happening in that family look I I talked to my sister about this because my sisters. got a PhD in Child Development and Change and a teacher for certain. She knows all that stuff. And she's saying that whole thing of them keeping like isolating those kids, so they didn't have friends and the only connections they had were teachers, and when that started going bad, they cut that off, too keeping those kids inside the house, so no one could talk to them clearly the inside of that house, really bad things were taking place, and there was a podcast that came out like pretty soon after it happened. I think it's called the broken hearts. Yeah, it was. It was a whole series about this right? One of the things was they started. They found all this evidence that Jen was online like hours and hours a day playing a one of those communal games. I can't remember what it was called, but she so she's the APP. Stay at home, MOM! She's literally on the computer. She ran a game. She was like essentially. There's a there's a whole part where a guy gets on there and I. can't I had no idea. She had a family the amount of time she spent on this game. It like makes no sense. It's really it's, but it's like a really horrible bizarre mystery that that like. Like only the friends and family, and there's a lot of people who knew them from those festivals. Yeah, that you know had met them and bought into that they were like there was nothing that made them think except for the fact that those kids were tiny and skinny. Yeah, but other than that it was like these two very active involved MOMS, so it seemed that they just bought the whole presentation, and of course it's that thing of optics that it's the two dimensional life you present on facebook or you present in one picture. It makes everyone go. Oh good. That's what's happening. Goodbye I! Don't have to worry about that. That's it. And that's not the truth. And that is the awful reality of the life of devante heart, the crying boy, hugging the COP and twenty fourteen and the murder suicide of the heart family. Oh My god Jesus. That makes you cry. It's horrible. It's just so heartbreaking. Wow, good job, thank it. That's that's the reason. It's so much easier to like. You want to just look at A. A picture for three seconds. Okay, everything's been taken care of, but because this is sometimes what's on the other side riot? I think I think part of like why you and I and a lot of us love true crime is because it's that willingness to go. I do WANNA. Look at it, I do WanNa know the bad things that are happening I do want to see. What else there is, and what can be done, and what can be prevented and Ray. How how we make sure this doesn't happen anymore and an acknowledgement that your life isn't the only story that there's so many stories out there that you have to be hurt as well. Yana And a desire to hear them. Choosing a natural deodorant can often take trial and error. But there's one that checks each and every box of what the perfect dealer it should be, and it happens to be called each and every each, and every is gender. 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That's ten dollars off your order of thirty dollars or more every day from participating restaurants download the GRUB, APP Today and get ten dollars off your first order of thirty dollars or more. Is a case. I wanted to cover time, but I want to get it right. I'm GonNa tell you an unprecedented case in British history, and it's this murder that completely overhauled the British law and leads to changes in policing, and how people of Color are treated by the system. It's an epic story and this is the murder of Stephen Lawrence. I got information from. Chatham House. There's an article by Brian Cathcart from the independent The Guardian. BBC News, and article by Danny Shah. There's the little sweet baby angel on Youtube does true crime videos. Her name is Georgia Marie. Yeah. Isn't that funny? And she. She's British, so she kind of understand some of the nuances and. She had known about this case. All her life whereas I had never heard of it before. You know, see I've never heard of it. Yeah, Hagman, but it's huge there and then there's a documentary stephen. Lawrence Justice for murder, but it's on the real crime UK Youtube. It's really good. Okay I got a lot of Info from that so. Let me, give you some background Stephen. Lawrence is born on September Thirteenth Nineteen, seventy, four in southeast London in a neighborhood called plumstead, and it's in the Greenwich, borough, Stevens, parents, are Neville and Doreen Lawrence there jamaican-born. They're totally religious hardworking people, novels, a carpenter and a Taylor a plasterer. And aim kind of my GRANDPA was my GRANDPA was a plaster. My GRANDPA was the president of the plasters union in San Francisco to right. Yeah, sorry I just had to know. American up to be like what exactly is that? That's when the when the when you put up the drywall. And then you make the you put the thing on top, so it's like an actual wall. Yeah and then it's like goes beyond that with like the decorative like decorative What do they call them up? They're like wainscoting or the border Ya are like they can get really good at that stuff like that. Yeah, that's what he did only. Enduring is a special needs. Teacher and Steven is the oldest of kids. He is Super Smart. He excels at school. His brother later says that no matter how well he did in life, Stephen was always just a little bit better than him and one of those kids who like get it easy. Don't have to study So the vicar of his church, who knew Stephen and his family well called Stephen, and it's S., t. e., p., H., e., N., so it's not Stephen like Stephen. called it called him a delightful human being He loved to listen to music. especially. Solan are MB, and when he's just seven years old, he decides he wants to be an architect and nineteen ninety-three at eighteen, he studying for his a levels, which is like the end of Highschool in England and planning to go to university for architecture, so this has been his passion. Passion since he was seven and he this is what he was going to do with his life, and he's doing it. Yeah. The Greenwich Borough in the nineties is consists consisted mostly of white people. There's a lot of poverty, and because of this the people of color who lived there experienced a lot of racist violence and I think you and I both read about a lot of how it was there in the nineties and skinheads were rampant. Racism was the norm. Sorry I'm not saying it's not now either, but it almost was like. Y-, you know celebrated. It seemed at the time. Yeah, yeah, so that's that's how they do it. That's how the upper class keeps. The the working class down is they set? They pit people against each other right so in Greenwich. The the borough was actually one of the racist hot spots of the country at the time, and they're hundreds of incidents of racial harassment, being reported to police every year, but this just fueled Stephen and his family. You know they were determined to succeed in life. He was a really hard worker. He had a really supportive strong family that helped him believe in himself and. He was going to make it. So, but on the night eight of April Twenty Second Nineteen ninety-three about ten thirty PM after Stephen and his best friend to Wayne Brooks by the way they're both lack. They'd spend the evening hanging out and they're on their way home, attempting to catch a bus in the L.. Tham neighborhood when they don't see the bus coming. Stephen goes out into the street to see if it's like if you can see it heading down the road, so. dwayne from the sidewalk notices that there's a group of five or six white teenagers on the opposite side of the street. And dwayne calls out to Stephen to ask the buses coming, and then the teenagers notice the to Stephen Dillane, and they start shouting racial slurs at the two boys, calling them the N. Word, and then out of nowhere the entire group of these white teenage hoodlums run towards Stephen, and Dwayne Dwayne like run the opposite direction, but he stops when he realizes that Stephen hadn't run, and he had been surrounded by the group, and it's I know it's terrifying. It's later described as if they were engulfing him. Yeah and in the documentary that I watch St Lawrence Justice for a murderer they do reenactments that just like. It's terrifying so only if it lasts only like ten seconds the attack. But it's witnessed by three people who are also at the bus stop. Can You fucking imagine? And then the gang runs off and comes back grabs his friend off the ground, and he's like. Let's run case the comeback, and so they start running, but after about one hundred and thirty yards. Like can tell that his friend has hurt worse than he thought so he turns around. He's like what's what's going on, and he sees his best friend. Stephen Lawrence collapse onto the sidewalk. dwayne goes to a nearby phone booth calls nine nine and tells the dispatcher that he thinks his friend had been hit in the head with what maybe what he thought was a crowbar. He couldn't tell so dwayne. said you know he says send ambulance, and he tries to in the meantime to flag down passing cars, but there's not a lot of cars laid out late at night, but a couple who were walking home from a prayer meeting. At Church do stop to help. I know and meanwhile the bus arrives and the three witnesses get on and leave. twenty minutes after a leave, yeah! I know. One of the one of them was actually a friend of early lived in the neighborhood news, Stephen, so he went home and told. Parents, what had Hogan and then twenty minutes after the attack will twenty minutes instead of an ambulance showing up a police car shows up and Dwayne like. Kind of loses shit at this point because he's like my friend is seriously hurt. He can tell he's yelling and asking why. There isn't an ambulance and the police later report that they described him as aggressive and agitated, which is like well, no shit. Yeah, the officers who of course are trained in CPR, they test Stevens pulse, which is weak, but they don't find any other signs of head trauma as Dwayne reported so they're like Oh. That's not true, and then they do. Do see that Stephen is bleeding, but they don't actually check for any other wounds, and it's cold. It's in the middle of It's in the middle of April so it's cold, so he's all these layers on, so they don't take off his layers to see you know what injuries he has stead. They just leave him there. They don't administer any form of first aid and spend the time win for the ambulance questioning Dwayne like like as if he was involved in it. But it's obvious to even the by standards who had stopped that Stephen is struggling to hold onto life. So the woman who had been part of the prayer couple her name's Louis Taft. She puts her hand on Stevens head and whispers in his ear. Your loved your love over and over, and that's probably the last thing that Steven ever heard. when the ambulance finally does arrive, paramedics examined Stephen He's the sweet eighteen year old kid who's going to be an architect like it's just. It's so senseless the paramedics examined Stephen, and they don't find any vital signs than when they pick them up and load them into the structure. They're like Oh shit. There's a huge pool of blood on the ground beneath him. They had hospital around eleven o five thirty five minutes after the attack, and try to restart his heart, but ultimately successful and Steven is dead. meanwhile, he had been stabbed twice once. Once in his arm that hit a major artery, and then once through his collarbone, that hit another major artery. It was just these like. I I don't know it was who knows was by chance are on purpose. You don't stab someone to not kill them. Yeah, and it just nicked these two arteries. Perfectly, meanwhile, the crime scene, the scenes, not properly searched doesn't seem like anyone in charge. Instead the investigators focus their attention on Dwayne and his possible involvement, and what happens so instead of like searching for his attackers, which join is telling them have been a group of white teenagers yelling racial slurs. The police decide. It's too late to wake people up like going door to door. And they don't do anything. So as the investigation begins, the officers suspect Wayne had something to do with it. You know they thought maybe they got in a fight and went too far. Maybe it had something to do with drugs joined denies it. He insists that he in the attack was racially motivated. Attackers had been yelling the n word, and you know racial slurs. Police are able to track down all three witnesses who had been at the bus stop at the time of the attack. And they take their statements. It cooperates joins account so they can't keep fucking blaming him. All of them say that it was a sudden and short unprovoked attack. And then within twelve hours of the attack police get a ton of chips from around the neighborhood, including a witness who gives a suit pseudonym I. think he's like in head even so like he's fucking writing these people out, and there's an anonymous female who calls into the police, and an anonymous note is left on a police car windshield, and there's another one in phone booth like naming these specific people so over. Over the next couple of days, detectives received twenty six tips, many of which point the finger at the same suspects. All these tips point to local teens Gary Dobson and David Norris and they and their gang and they're known for racism. They're known for always carrying knives around with them. It's five boys altogether. They're all like sixteen or seventeen years old, and they're well known in the community and their schools troublemakers. They call themselves nut nutters with knives. Is there like gang nickname? Guys Yeah, one of the boys lives on the same street that the attack took place so two of the boys Neil and Jamie a court. They call themselves the Tham craze, which is a nod to the notorious Kray brothers, so they're already like obsessed with you know just like organized crime and and Fuck in violence. And Dennis the other kid dennis had been charged with stabbing a girl twelve months before it had been acquitted, so they're like God. They should be known. They should be the first people on the list to look to like bring in, and basically in the days following Stevens murder, they really did is put surveillance on one of the houses of the boys, and they watched and photographed, and you could see the photographs. One of the boys is leaving the House with a big black trash bag. Full of fuck and who knows what bloody clothes the weapon. We don't know because I never fucking stop them to check. What was in the bags just four days after the murder of Stephen Lawrence Detective Superintendent Brian Weeden. Says that no arrest taking place because there just wasn't enough evidence. but also he later claims that he hadn't heard a thing about the boys. The gangs the gang. And also he said that he didn't know. The law allowed arrest upon reasonable suspicion. He didn't know. He says he didn't know. The Detective Superintendent of the London Metropolitan Fuck Melito and I didn't know that I could take people in on reasonable suspicion. Well, maybe you should do brush up classes once a year about the law that you're supposed to be enforcing. That's the suggestion. And so this is just the beginning of this incredible. EPIC breakdown of the investigation and mishandling of information and evidence. This case becomes fucking huge in the UK and what possibly could have been a swift response, and maybe could have led to the arrest of these boys who had killed Stephen Lawrence. It goes nowhere. Meanwhile, police are insisting that the crime wasn't made racially motivated despite the attackers, not knowing their victim and yelling racial slurs while they attacked. When the police don't continue investigating Stevens parents, who are the fucking like heroes of this story, these incredible people, Neville and Doreen. They're so frustrated at the lack of progress in the they're getting mistreated by their victims liaisons like they're clearly under suspicion. which is driving them crazy? So they hold a press conference and say that nothing has been done about their son's death, and they say if if Arsenal is white, police would have cared more and done more. Yep. But you're so like fine. The police don't care about that, but guest Susan fucking town at this exact time. You're not gonNA guess. No Political Superhero Nelson Mandela. What dressier this is fucking in town and they have a connection to him and so Neville Doreen are able to meet with him with Nelson, Mandela explain their situation to him, and it's only when he speaks to the press. He goes out in front of his hotel to specifically speak about Stevens case that the police are finally shamed into action. She yeah, that's unbelievable unbelievable so the very next day on May seven two weeks. Weeks after Stephen had been murdered, police raid the suspects home, they arrest brothers Neil and Jamie a court and Gary Dobson, which seemed like the core group or the court. You know people in the raids. They find a number of weapons including knives as well as some clothes that they see is, but they they do they do. They don't do a full search. They don't rip up the carpet. Someone had given a tip that the courts had. Left their knives in a floorboard. They didn't look for them. You know it seemed pretty half asked. What is this again? Okay, so currently where in nineteen ninety-three? Oh, Shit, I thought it was the Seventy S. oh, fuck, so they bring the boys in for questioning, hoping that one of them will slip up and say something incriminating, but instead they get these boys who have clearly been coached, and how on how to say nothing, and they just constantly say no comment or I don't remember and despite the despite being traumatized and afraid for his life fucking doing the sweet baby who was the best friend is able to come in and pick to the boys out of a big lineup. And in his interview I mean. It's this kid is. It's incredible that he's able to do this so in June nineteen ninety-three. The Lawrence has are finally able to hold a funeral for Stephen, and there's a funeral procession through the streets of town following the hearst, and by this time there's a ton of anger in the black community, and you know throughout London and there's a huge crowd outside the church, and it said that Neville enduring composure, and like they had this incredible air of like. strength on June twenty six the Crown Prosecution Service or CPS. Drops all the charges against all the boys citing insufficient evidence. which is a huge blow to Stevens parents, and at this point, public criticism against the place is huge and growing marches are being held protesting the lack of police response to the murderer, and in the violence that is perpetrated against the community. One interesting thing is that standard procedure for any unsolved murder in Britain to have an internal review of the police handling of the case, which I think is really fucking cool. So having a cold case, you can't just sit. There has to be reviewed so one is done for Stevens murder. It's called the Baker report and it gave the investigation into Stevens murder. Basically a fucking all good here nothing to see here. No really yeah. They're like no looks fine to us. So of course again, his parents, Delta, blow and the family and the whole community. And Eventually Bill Mellish. This becomes the new lead investigator, and he orders surveillance on one of the kids Gary Dobson and his flat, hoping the gang. We'll talk about murder, so it's so fucking crazy in December ninety four. They put a tiny hidden camera in a plug socket in this, this kid's flat. Oh Shit! Yeah, and so the footage you can see it in the documentary like the legit footage. These kids are fucking. They're crazy A. ACT, out beating people, they take knives and pretend to stab you know into the wall and the the way they speak about who they WANNA, kill, and how and it's all you know minorities is horrific. It's Yukking. I it's terrifying I. Mean the footage shows them with knives at all times, racial slurs and the same footage shows kid, Neil, a court with a knife on him at all times so like the pattern fits the murder, but since they don't actually admit to the murder, which is incredible that they didn't. They're still not enough evidence to take anyone to trial. The Lawrence family refuses to give up Netherland during they want justice. Justice for their son. They'll do anything for it and a year. After the murder, the family initiates a private prosecution. Another thing they have in the UK what that means is instead of the charges being made on behalf of the population by the crown prosecuting service, so instead of like being with us, it would be like the state of California, versus whatever instead of that and individual, an individual's able to make charges privately. So, it's really rare there but in April nineteen ninety four one. Year after the murder of their son, Lawrence's they do this against the initial suspects Jamie, a court. Gary Dobson and David Norris who they had the most evidence against, so it's only three five which socks, but you know they want to see justice done. Yeah! The family isn't entitled to Legal Aid for this motion, so a established to pay for the analysis of forensic evidence and the cost of tracking down and re interviewing witnesses and all of the council on the case work pro bono, and it's headed by Michael Mansfield which it's like really awesome so in April, nineteen ninety six now the case finally comes to court with Dwayne. Dwayne Dwayne is the main witness for the prosecution because he was able to pick out people in a lineup. Explain what happened that night. The case rests on the evidence given by him the night of the murder as well as the lineup that just said that and some of the surveillance video from the flat is going to be used as well the by then. dwayne is super, emotionally fragile. It's he's I'm sure. Suffering from PTSD, absolutely had this enormous survivor's guilt, and so this young man I think he's like twenty at the time has all this pressure like the case rests on his shoulders being the most. He's probably scared for his life is it's these same he was? You know what happened to him to. And they are in court. Right horrifying and another thing that I haven't talked about yet. Is that one of the Kids David Norris? His father is like a kingpin, fucking criminal in like high-powered criminal drug dealer in town. So. He's scared for his second life for sure for sure, so he falls apart on the witness stand and his evidence is ruled inadmissible. I know. And the jury never gets to see the railings footage, and so on April twenty. Fifth Nineteen ninety-six. The three hour quitted. which also under British law means they can't be tried again because of double fucking jeopardy, even if they later confess to the murders, they can't be traded for them. And these fucking assholes are smirking and being cocky as they leave the courthouse, you know people are like crowded around the courthouse. They throw shit at them. But at this point, the public is like fuck this shit, and so another inquest into Stevens. Murder finally concludes that this was an unlawful killing in a completely unprovoked racist attack by five white youths. So finally they acknowledged what actually happened and here's the thing. Despite how long this has been going on for and everything that had happened legally in the media. No one knew the identities of the five suspects how they had been underage when it happened, so it just have been these like five face, nameless faceless kids, but now fuck in our. Our frienemie Daily Mail steps in. And you know I mean now we know, and of course Georgia Marie was like everyone knows. Daily Mail. To their credit, and The horrible tabloid paper, but to their credit the editor Paul Decorah. He knew Neville Lawrence personally because Neville had plastered Paul's House Oh shit and Paul was quoted as saying quote. He did a lot of plastering work. He was clearly a very decent hard working man, so they have connections to Nelson Mandela at they have connections to Paul, Dogra Cheese, amazing, and so on February fourteenth nineteen, ninety-seven, the Daily Mail runs huge front page story it says in huge writing murderers. The Mail accuses these men of killing. If we are wrong, let them. THEM SUE US and they host every photo of the kids, and every not kids are men. Every photo of the killers and all of their names Jeez it. That's this incites crazy political debate, and whether it's okay to have done this and eventually the Prime Minister John Major comes forward and says the Daily Mail had broken no laws, and and I know and none of the five kit people, none of the five teens ever come forward to sue, and you know they probably Daily Mail probably wanted to. Because then they could depose them. Get their fucking high powered lawyers to crack them so I bet they were wanting at least one of them to sue and they didn't because they probably knew that it's so. It's like the one time tabloid. Does something decent? Ya Like I didn't know there were stories like this. And you know what it is. It's kind of it's kind of draws drives. You crazy because. It's because the editor had met a Neville right and probably have these preconceived notions of people of color and meets one and he's like. Oh, he was actually a hardworking man when it is wrong because of my ray singly every experience, every other parent to any other fucking child is probably a hardworking person to, and they don't get this opportunity, but it was amazing that Lawrence has got the opportunity and used it and used it yes. Yes in this one circumstance, also if it's gone, which is how it normally happens tabloids, which is, they don't have to write, we decide. We accused because that's what they do. When they just put up and blatant lies, and you know the first thing I think of his Madeleine McCann's parents where they tried and convicted those people totally in the press. I mean who are It's just it's such ugly business, but would it's tiny. Shining. Silver lining there and it's because. These men were guilty. It's not you know all right. So the next day the video evidence of the boys inside the flat is released, and so people just the anger fucking grows the racism and the knives, and the reenacting the attacks, and so on the thirty first of July in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty seven. More than four years after Stephen Lawrence was murdered home, Secretary Jack Straw announces yet another inquiry into a the judicial. Part of this case and it's led by retired. High Court Judge Sir William McPherson and this would go on to be known as the McPherson in Korea or the macphail McPherson report. Eventually it comes out in February ninety nine. It's a three hundred and fifty page report concludes that the investigation into the murder of Stephen Lawrence had been quote marred by a combination of professional competence, institutional racism and a failure of leadership and the officers in the Metropolitan Police specifically involved are named, and the entire force is criticized. It's this huge sweeping declaration of law enforcement in the UK, and it's really negative pisses a lot of people in the institution off the term institutional racism. Racism was first coined, and I use in nineteen, sixty seven in the book black power. The Politics Liberation and Sir William McPherson defines it as quote, the collective failure of an organization to provide an appropriate and professional service to people because of their color, culture or ethnic origin it could be seen or detected in processes, attitudes and behaviour, which amount to discrimination through prejudice, ignorance, thoughtlessness and racist stereotyping, which disadvantage minority ethnic people so out that whole definition becomes like huge talking point. Yeah, he just puts it right on the paper their. Noble McPherson puts forward a total of seventy recommendations that are designed to show zero tolerance for racism and to improve practices within the met, and they include measures that would transform you know the whole attitude of police towards race relations and also improve accountability. And the response of the government is like Otit sorry about that and the Home Secretary Jack Straw. who had called for this inquiry? He accepted the charge of institutional racism and he's like Yeah, it's not just in the police. He says quote any long established white dominated organization is liable to have procedures, practices and a culture which tend to exclude non white people. Yeah, he also said that some truths were uncomfortable, but they had to be confronted. Within two years sixty seven, the reports recommendations led to specific changes in practice or in the law in UK sixty seven to seventy, the recruitment retention and promotion of black and Asian officers and the creation of the independent police complaints. Commission that has the power to appoint its own investigators is created, and as a result of this report, the entire force enacted huge change from the top down the. The report even made recommendations to change in the national curriculum, so they wanted to change the correct the curriculum of the UK that would prevent racial prejudices and foster culture of diversity, as well as saying that racist incidents in school should be reported to people's parents. and a record should be published by each school every year like we should. They should be held accountable for it. And it was noted that especially they needed to reestablish the trust between the minority ethnic communities and the police. Wow, so this is great, but still no one being held responsible for actually murdering Stephen and all five men. Still Walk Free and some of those crimes are racially motivated. Just showing the they're continuing. You know they're probably cocky about it now and flaunting they fucking thing they got away with. Yes got away with it four time. But in two thousand five as part of the recommendation of the McPherson report, here's okay ready for this. The Rule of double jeopardy is repealed. Get entirely. It's repealed in murder cases, and it's decided that a person acquitted of murder could be brought to trial again on the basis that fresh and viable new evidence comes to light, so the Lawrence's were like this is our fucking chance. A secret cold case review begins and they start to search for new evidence and finally in November two thousand fucking seven. That's happened in nineteen ninety-three. It's November two thousand seven. It's shared final. The investigators have forensic evidence on including a microscopic stain of Stevens blood on the collar at Gerry Dobson's jacket. WHOA, they went through all the clothing that were had been sealed up for so long, and they searched it. They found fibers from Stevens. Clothing an hairs that had a ninety nine point nine percent chance of having come from Stephen on both Dobson's jacket and David nurses jacket, while dark. Jeans so finally. Science has caught up and it's able to fucking bear witness to what happened and yeah, okay, so Gary Dobson and David Norris arrested and charged on September eighth, two, thousand and ten. unfortunately they're the only ones that there's enough evidence against you know meaningfully bring them to trial. Dobson's original acquittal is thrown out and Norris hadn't been previously acquitted, so it's announced at the two face trial for the murder in light of the new and substantial evidence on November Fifteenth Two Thousand and Eleven David Norris and Gary Dobson go to trial and Knowing this was probably the last. Last chance to get justice for her son. Doreen Lawrence is in court every day. Oh the forensic evidence on three different pieces of clothing is the main evidence and Dewayne. Instead of having to you know, have it all on his shoulders is able to give testimony describing what happened on the night. His best friend was murdered so the night before he was to testify Duan's father died. And he's like I'm coming to court anyways to buy, and he fucking shows up for his best friend. Yeah, he's got the second chance. And all they want from him. This time is to tell them what happened to him. They don't need him to identify anyone. Science is doing that. You know yeah. I just want his story exactly yeah. the surveillance video shown and showing that they are capable of this crime. which is what the video does. It's almost like it in the judge could have ruled inadmissible which I could totally see here in the US but really it shows character and a PAB yes, so after three days of jury deliberation. Nineteen years after the fact on January third twenty, twelve, Dobson and Norris are found guilty of the murder of Stephen Lawrence. And they're sentenced to life with a minimum term of fifteen years and two months, Dobson and fourteen years and three months for an unfortunately the judge says the sentences that seem kind of light reflect the fact that they were both juveniles at the time of the offence which sucks because otherwise they would have gotten thirty years minimum right. In June twenty thirteen. There's okay, so there's an interview with former undercover police officer named Peter Francis that comes out in June. Two, thousand thirteen, and the Guardian and he is like fucking spilling it. He's like I was working undercover within an anti-racist campaign in the mid nineties. He is like I was constantly pressured by my superiors to hunt for disinformation and taint the credibility and reputation of the Lawrence's. That's what he was tasked to do is to make them look bad. Somehow you know you always see these like yeah, but you know. He had cove it or he had, he had arrest record for petty theft, or his parents were drug addicts. It's like this thing of every time every time. There are people whose job it is to do that so that you don't care anymore about. Them and about just just remember that next time you hear like information. Yes, I'M GONNA fucking. Shit, say I went to Rehab for math. It doesn't mean I don't I? Don't deserve second, good and happy life you know. That that's right. I don't want to talk about that I. Don't WanNa talk about. I think that's a very good point. Georgia because that's also the disparity between white and black experience. Right because that's like the guy that came forward and said George Floyd Ni- when we were eighteen, we both got arrested for passing fake twenty dollar bills. Now it's a story. I tell at dinner parties. That's cute and he's dead. That's right. And that's really that's what that's. What the point you're making I. Mean thank you. I tell you. I will tell you the point unseen, not surprising to anyone. There's no dirt on the Lawrence is to be found there. fucking good people ball in Allison Mandela loves, said Van de loves them. So you know that comes out, it's this huge scandal. It's really fascinating There's a lots insane on. There's a lot like then it sounds like a conspiracy theory like if you found that out and told people people be, you're insane. I mean. I was reading some of these accounts of other undercover cops that we're talking about infiltrating anti-racist campaigns there infiltrating. the animal cruelty Organizations, anti animal cruelty. Their infiltrating them and they're fucking shit up in that organization on purpose. I mean like the people who let the car on fire I don't forget for a second believed that they weren't working for someone and under someone's orders. Absolutely well at this point I feel like nothing is passed that kind of right. It all it all bears, considering because who the fuck knows. What's going on I think what we're saying as it goes all all the way events. Always has always has an let's because. It's built on A. Foundation Okay Yeah. okay, so since then amazing Doreen has set at the Stephen Lawrence charitable trusts, and they quote work with young people from disadvantaged backgrounds to inspire and enable them, and we all they said we also influence others to create a fairer society, in which everyone regardless of their background can flourish. There's also an annual architecture award. Am An Stephen Lawrence Research. Center! Which Marine is chancellor of the university appointed and twenty sixteen. That's de Montfort University. Wow She. Altering also receives a fucking lifetime achievement award at the fourteen. Th Pride of Britain Awards in October twenty twelve. She's given the title of Baroness. On September six, twenty thirteen, which is a very rare honor for civilians that doesn't happen. Yeah, they don't usually. We did the Queen show up one of the lesser royals. Yes or is that how it works? Maybe there are the chancellor I dunno, she should hit on the Labour benches in the House of Lords, as a working peer specialising in race and diversity. That's right, so she's up in it now and on April twenty, third, two, thousand eighteen. There's a memorial service charge mark the twenty fifth anniversary of Stephen's death and Prime Minister Theresa May announces that Stephen Lawrence Day would be an annual national com commemoration of his death on the twenty second of April every year, starting last year and twenty nineteen, so he day now. Wow, meanwhile, it's been over twenty five years since the murder of Stephen Lawrence which is one of Britain's highest profile killings in history. Dramatic reforms in the way police handle racial racially motivated crime, which is thanks and Stevens legacy. But. Of course it's like the US it's there's deep seated racism and It's it's not perfect. It's not close to perfect and a lot of changes still need to be made in society and in the justice system, during says that she would like Stephen Subaru remembered as a young man who had a future and Doreen and Neville, Lawrence They have Stevens body buried in Jamaica. Saying that London didn't deserve him. On that is the murder of Stephen Lawrence and I want to also say that his charitable trust is at Sieben, and it's S., t. e., p. h., E. N. Lawrence Dot Org dot UK, so you can check that out too amazing. How isn't that? Wild yeah, thanks torrisi million for her research. Then I mean. That was a hard one. Great Job, thank you guys for listening and for being here with US and and for participating. Yeah, we appreciate you showing up. Let's keep showing up. Let's keep showing up and doing our best and and and getting in this fight and doing what we can. I don't know. Stay safe and stay fucking angry. And say Sexy Oh and don't get murdered. Elvis you want a cookie.