35 Burst results for "Second Century"
The Eric Metaxas Show
Something Has Happened in America...
"Has happened in America where we can call it the left, but it's really the anti American left. This is not good liberals like Alan Dershowitz or Naomi wolf or whoever you want to mention. People that love America that love truth and justice and the American way. No, these are people that are at war with the freedoms and the ordered liberty for which patriots have died through the centuries. They are at war with America and they have taken control of certain institutions much of it, I guess, backed by George Soros, who isn't actually Satan, but they're good friends. And the fact of the matter is this is happening in America. And if we don't stand against it and recognize it for what it is, it's the abrogation of America. The founder's vision of justice for all when it happens on this level, I kind of, what I find funny, Sean, is it's sort of like, you know, it's like watching an old wildlife film or something and these two animals are battling it out. And the level of desperation has just gone code red that they would do this shows that they don't care if they burn down the house. They just can not bear the idea that Trump might be the next president. So they will do they will do the kind of thing that it's just impossible for us to comprehend that anyone would do, but we're kind of there. In other words, they've done a number of these sorts of things. And they have inured or they're trying to endure the American public to increasingly extreme action. So
AP News Radio
World on 'thin ice' as UN climate report gives stark warning
"A new report from a UN science panel warned that humanity is fast approaching the deadline. For preventing the worst damage to the planet. From climate change, UN secretary general Antonio Guterres with a warning. Humanity is on thin ice and that high is melting fast. Guterres is calling for an end to new fossil fuel exploration and wealthy country should stop using coal, oil, and gas by 2040. The rate of temperature rise in the last half century is the highest in 2000 years. The science panel's report says to stay under the 1.5° warming target. The world needs to cut 60% of greenhouse gas emissions in the next 12 years. Co author, Christopher tree sos. Action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and adapt to the impacts of climate change is more urgent than previously assessed in AR 5. And that this decade actions in this decade are critical for securing a sustainable future for all. I'm Jackie Quinn
The Officer Tatum Show
How Did Hitler Rise to Power?
"You guys may you guys may know that in the 19th century, the German people, I mean, you're talking about arts, you're talking about science, you're talking about education, they were it. They were the bomb. There was, they were the best people that they were, as far as education, arts, talent, you name it. Automobiles, you name it. It was Germany. It was Germany. So what happens to bring about this dictator by the name of Adolf Hitler? I mean, people were going to college left and right there. People could, if you were enabled person and when I say able, you have to be smart, you have to be intelligent, but if you could prove you were intelligent, people in Germany were going to college, they went from, I believe is right prior to World War I, 73,000 people in college and leading up to World War I are immediately following a 120,000. I mean, that was the center of learning. It was the envy of the world Americans would go there to study people. Albert Einstein was, I mean, it was just an amazing place. It was an amazing place. But things started to happen. They had people that came into power that had bad policies and after World War I, they were embarrassed. They thought they were winning and their leaders were lying to them. And then their leaders come back and they find the people find out the news and they're embarrassed and they're humiliated and then president Woodrow Wilson comes out with his 14 point plan and they believe there's gonna be some negotiation between Germany and the American people, but the problem is the British and the French are allies wanted their peace of Germany's booty because they didn't like them. And they wanted Germany to pay the price.
Mark Levin
Special Counsel Subpoenaed Dozens of Mar-a-Lago Staff
"At least two dozen people from Mar-a-Lago resorts staff To members of Donald Trump's inner circle at the Florida state have been subpoenaed to testify to a federal grand jury that's investigating the former president's handling of classified documents multiple sources familiar with the investigation told CNN or the multiple sources familiar with the investigation of what Jack the Ripper Smith staff On Thursday Trump's communication aid Margot Martin Who worked in The White House And then moved with Trump to Florida appeared before the grand drain Washington One of special counsel Jack smith's senior most prosecutors was involved in the interview Martin who is among a small group of former White House advisers who've remained employed by Trump after he left office declined to answer any questions when approached by a CNN reporter Well of course she did you idiot Now Smith has sought testimony from a range of people close to Trump from his own attorneys who represent him in the matter to staffers who work on the grounds of Mar-a-Lago including in a housekeeper And restaurant servers Including a house what is this the crime of the century they're investigating This jackass was pulled from The Hague to do this The staffers were of interest to investigators because of what they may have seen or heard On their daily duties around the estate including whether they saw boxes or documents in Trump's office suite or elsewhere Is this not amazing This is his home Biden doesn't face any of this
AP News Radio
It will soon be time to render unto Caesar to visit Rome's pantheon, a Hong Kong ritual whacks away troubles, and a Zoroastrian holiday cause some to hit the streets as others hit their pocket books.
"On this week's AP religion roundup. It will soon be time to pay Caesar to visit Rome's Pantheon, a Hong Kong ritual wax away troubles and a Zoroastrian holiday causes some to hit the streets as others hit their pocketbooks. Tourists in Rome checking out the Pantheon will soon pay €5 for admission. Proceeds will be split between the culture ministry and the Roman Catholic Church, tourists at the site were divided over the new fee. I wasn't really expensive to stay here so I think it's a very nice building and for us to visit for free is wonderful. We are fully understand that it's necessary maybe to pay, you know, for the securing of the value, what is possible to say inside. The Pantheon was built as a Roman temple more than 2000 years ago. It was transformed into a church 14th century ago, and mass is regularly celebrated there. For people holding a grudge in Hong Kong, one way to release their anger is to take part in a villain hitting ritual. Edison Chan says he hopes the ritual will help cut out gossip and keep bad people away from him. Ritual practitioners, mostly older women, use a shoe to bash an image of the person who was the target of their customer's anger. One practitioner says many of her customers are people who have trouble at work or feel like they're being unfairly treated. She says she helps them by symbolically whacking the bad people away for a fee of 50 Hong Kong dollars. The ritual includes blessings from Hong Kong's goddess of the sea, as well as divine beings related to Buddhism. The markets in Iraq's Kurdish region are busy, as people prepare for the spring festival of Nauru. The Persian new year, the holiday dates back to at least 1700 BCE, and incorporates ancient Zoroastrian traditions. This year, however, now ruz coincides with the Muslim fasting month of Ramadan. Shopper delga is having the two holidays at the same time creates a bit of a financial burden. In Iran, a fyre festival related to the holiday spark protests. Demonstrators chanted against the country's ruling clerics and hurled firecrackers at security forces. Hardliners have long condemned the fyre festival as an Islamic. I'm Walter ratliff.
Dennis Prager Podcasts
The Spirit of Inovation and Disruption
"Are we ready, sir? I wonder how you'll react before I say a word. As we begin our second century, the spirit of innovation and disruption inspires us every day. What does that have to do with reporting that? Thank you. That is correct. If I healed over right now, you could have offered the end of my thought or the beginning of my thought. I'm telling you it is one of those rare moments of such utter candor and honesty. You want to thank them for saying it. What do you think the spirit of a weekly news magazine should be? What should the dominant spirit be? I would think news reporting truth, honesty, depth, good writing. Would you think that? No. What animates Time Magazine, the heads of the magazine say, are the or is the spirit of innovation and disruption?
AP News Radio
Japan, South Korea move forward on trade issue before summit
"Japan and South Korea are working to smooth out areas of concern as key talks proceed. The two northeast Asian nations have agreed to resume regular visits between their leaders and have taken steps to resolve a trade dispute as a highly anticipated summit begins a sign the two countries are rebuilding their nation's security and economic ties as they try to overcome a century of difficult history. The summit could revive the region's diplomatic map with both leaders stressing the importance of improved ties as after a North Korean missile launch and encounters between Japanese and Chinese vessels earlier had showed what's at stake for the two countries. I'm Charles De Ledesma
AP News Radio
In nursing homes, impoverished live final days on pennies
"There's been no increase by Congress on how much a nursing home resident can receive for their personal needs allowance in decades. I'm Lisa dwyer. A half century old bit of American bureaucracy is leaving hundreds of thousands of nursing home residents in an unthinkable bind, living on as little as $30 a month. Most nursing home residents have their care covered by Medicaid and any income they receive instead goes towards their bills. The personal needs allowance created in 1972 was meant to cover anything a resident might need that its facility didn't provide from a phone to close or a birthday gift for a grandchild. Although some states have taken action on their own, the allowance remains low in much of the country. Congress has raised the minimum rate only once back in 1987 when it was raised two $30 and has remained $30 ever since. I'm Lisa dwyer
Dennis Prager Podcasts
Pope Calls Transgender Ideology the End of Civilization
"Yeah, so what do you think the Pope has come out and called that a civilization an opposition to civilization as we know it, the trans ideology? Of course it is. You know, one of the, one of the activist atheists, I think it was Dawkins. I say I think because I may be wrong. But a major atheist activist said the following. Said something to the effect, people do bad, but you need religion to do real evil. Given that it was all secular governments that would be exception of the Turkish regimes, mass murder of Armenians, that did the great evils of the 20th century, unprecedented in any period of time like that. What communism and nazism mostly in terms of numbers, communism, secular secular ideologies,
The Officer Tatum Show
Progressivism Is Regressive
"The words and phrases that no Republicans should use, one of them is progressive. And, you know, people, we like to fight or argue with the left, we argue with them on their territory. They use terms like progressive to mean that we're progressing. Progressivism is regressive. In all actuality, it's actually regressive. There's nothing progressive about defining genders. Saying, we don't know what a gender is. I think we figured that out. A billion years ago. That's not progressive. Saying that, oh, women shouldn't have traditional roles in the household and now you shouldn't get married and the family structure should be broken down. Listen, we went centuries to create the reasonable idea that, hey, maybe two people are better together and it could be more profitable for raising children. So progressivism is actually regressive ism. If that's even a word, gender affirming care, there's no such thing as gender affirming care. It's called, I would argue, is grooming and genital mutilation is what I would call it. Gender affirming care just gives them this overarching idea that this sounds like something that's positive for young people and I really believe that it's not.
The Eric Metaxas Show
James Rosen on His New Book 'Scalia: Rise to Greatness'
"I just have to ask you, you know, okay, you are chief White House correspondent for newsmax, you're a busy guy, what led you to say I want to write a big biography of this incredibly important figure in the 20th century. Well, it's great to be with you again, Eric. This book Scalia rise to greatness, 1936 to 1986 tells the story of the first 50 years of Antonin Scalia's life, leading up to and concluding with his Ascension to the Supreme Court. Volume two, which I hope will only be two years from now, will chronicle the 29 and a half years that Scalia spent as a Supreme Court Justice. But Scalia's life up to becoming a Supreme Court Justice was profound in its own right. And you ask why I decided to tell this story and tell it so comprehensively two volumes. First of all, the two existing books about Scalia's life were both written by liberals who, even though Scalia cooperated with one of them, both came out fairly contemptuous of the justices philosophy as jurisprudence and his conduct on the bench. So this is the first admiring biography of Antonin Scalia. And as such, I consider the first accurate biography of
AP News Radio
On this week's AP Religion Roundup, Paris' iconic cathedral prepares to re-open, and ancient runes reveal the Norse god Odin's deep history.
"On this week's AP religion roundup, Paris's iconic cathedral prepares to reopen, and ancient runes revealed a Norse God Odin's deep history. French officials say the reconstruction of Notre-Dame cathedral in Paris is going fast enough to allow its reopening to visitors and faithful at the end of 2024. That's less than 6 years after a fire ravaged its roof. France's culture minister rima Abdul Malik says that they still have work to do after the visitors return. Reopening to the public in December 2024, it doesn't mean that all the renovation will be over. There will still be some renovation works going on in 2020 5, but the cathedral will be open to the public. Authorities have made the choice to rebuild the 12th century masterpiece of gothic architecture, the way it was before. That includes recreating a more recent 315 foot spire. The army general in charge of the colossal reconstruction said the iconic spire will gradually start reappearing above the monument this year. He also says that the reopening means that Notre-Dame's archbishop will restart services at the cathedral. Every day, about a thousand workers endeavored to restore everything from the stonework to the stained glass to bring back Notre-Dame. Scientists have identified the oldest known reference to the Norse God Odin on a gold disk unearthed in western Denmark in 2020, a pendant with the inscription reading he is Odin's man, was in one of the largest troves of gold treasure ever found in Denmark. It's one of the best executed runen descriptions led I have ever seen. Lisbeth Emer is a runologist with the national museum in Copenhagen. She says the runes are evidence that Odin was worshiped as early as the 5th century. At least 150 years earlier than previously thought. We have had some indications that he might have been in the conscience of people earlier, but this is the first solid evidence. Experts think the cash was buried 15th centuries ago to either hide it from enemies, or as a tribute to appease the gods. I'm Walter ratliff
Mark Levin
List of Tax Hikes in Biden’s Budget
"We go to our friends at Americans for tax reform There is no better Biden's fiscal year 2024 budget proposal contains nearly $4.7 trillion in new tax hikes on American individuals and businesses Biden's proposed tax heights come just months after Democrats passed more than 700 billion in tax increases In the so called inflation reduction act so in a year's time they will have increased taxes by 5.4 trillion dollars And it won't even become close They're digging us out of the debt cycle that these fools have pushed us into Biden's budget proposal is a direct violation of his campaign pledge to not raise taxes on small businesses Here's a list of tax heights included in Biden's proposal Highest personal income tax rate since 1986 1986 Biden's budget calls for a top combined federal tax rate of about 45% 45% 45 cents out of every dollar Highest capital gains tax since 1978 1978 almost half a century ago I ran over twice as high as China's capital gains tax You want to know why China succeeds That's a communist regime It is a communist regime that will have a lower capital gains tax than the United States of America Got it
AP News Radio
Viking treasure reveals oldest reference to Norse god Odin
"Scandinavian scientists say they've identified the oldest known inscription, referencing the Norse God Odin on part of a bill disk unearthed in western Denmark in 2020. Lisbet Emer, a rheno with the national museum in Copenhagen, tells the AP the inscription represents the first solid evidence of being worshiped as early as the 5th century, at least 150 years earlier than the previous oldest known reference, which was on a brooch found
The Charlie Kirk Show
Why Was Fauci So Motivated to Cover up the Origin of the Virus?
"Investigate the lab leak hypothesis because he said it was a Trump talking point. Even though Trump was totally correct, it was all the biggest sham, the narrative industrial complex we could imagine. You supposedly have the worst pandemic in a century with millions of people's lives on the line, but you refuse to investigate stories of where they come from, why? Yes, because Fauci's hands are dirty with the funding and the connection via eco health alliance and Peter Daszak, but it's actually politically much more simple than that. Okay, Kirk fans, I need you to stop and pay attention to this. I have never experienced anything quite like the new strong sell product. I take it right before every single show. It's so easy. And you've got to read up on everything that has been packed into these tiny bottles. You see strong cell is a new scientific cocktail of cellular level replenishment. It's so simple. Just drink one small bottle of strong cell liquid per day and boom. You guys get NADH. I've kind of become a student of NAD. I'm going to tell you more about that in a second. Look strong cell is a formula that helps boost your body's natural energy and restoration at the cellular level. NAD is a crucial coenzyme. That is critical for creating energy in your cells. Now, you might say Charlie sounds too good to be true. NAD, go look it up online, go do 5 minutes of research on NAD. It is a miracle coenzyme. Some people call it the anti aging enzyme. It can help with depression, it can help with anxiety, it can help with mental acuity with memory and strong cell also puts CoQ10 and wild caught marine collagen. Again, I take it every day and the difference I feel is undeniable. By taking just one small bottle of strong cell liquid every day. You can experience an energy boost within the first week and even more benefits within the first 15 days. After 30 days, you'll feel like a new person. But just don't take my word for it, try strong self for yourself and see the difference it can make.
AP News Radio
Vietnam War veteran who broke barriers awarded Medal of Honor
"Recommended for the nation's highest military award, a Vietnam veteran has finally been honored. Retired colonel Paris Davis was one of the first black green beret combat commanders. One President Biden calls a true hero for risking his life amid heavy fire to save his soldiers during a 1965 firefight. His commander in turn recommended Davis for it the Medal of Honor. The president notes the paperwork was lost half a century ago. Not just once. But twice. This morning here at The White House, the president draped the medal on the now 83 year old Davis. You are everything this metal means. Outside minutes later, Davis did not dwell on the delay, but rather on the honor itself. This medal reflects what teamwork service and dedication can achieve. In
Dennis Prager Podcasts
Biden Hosts Screening of Film About Lynching of Emmett Till
"So this has been mentioned by others. I am sure, but I did not mention it, and I think I need to. Comment made by the most, I believe vicious man to ever be president of the United States, Joe Biden. I never spoke this way with Clinton or Obama. So this is not because he's a Democrat. He is vicious because he's a Democrat, but he, I'm not attacking him because he's Democrat. Being on the left makes you a worse person, there is no doubt in my mind about that. He become, if you're not angry, you're not a leftist. What he said may be one of the most vile things a president of the United States has ever said. Since 17 76. Although what year it did Washington assume the presidency? Was it 76? No, no. I didn't think so. So. Really 1790 would be really 1790s, 14 years after saying we're an independent country. Since the late 18th century, he watched the till, lynched for simply being black. With white crowds, white families, this is from American greatness. Gathered to celebrate the spectacle. By the way, let me comment on that. I have seen these pictures. For those of you who think humans are basically good, human nature is basically good. How do you explain people? Celebrating at the lynching of a human being. Because of its color. I look at these people and I think, are we members of the same species? Anyway, taking pictures of the bodies and mailing them as postcards. As the American great miss Wright, which is a conservative apiece, conservatives hate racism much more than leftists do. Hard to believe that was done. And then so this is anyway, this is what he said. This is a quote, so to be, I have to be very, I don't have an cult Mark, so that was my error. Lynched for simply being black. This is what Biden said. After watching till. Nothing more, with white crowds, white families gathered to celebrate the spectacle taking pictures of the bodies and mailing them as postcards, hard to believe but that was what was done. Okay. And then he added, and some people still want to do that.
The Eric Metaxas Show
John Zmirak and Eric Discuss the 'He Gets Us' Super Bowl Ads
"Get to talk to my friend John smirke for a few minutes. John, what else should we talk about today? Well, I've got another piece that stream dot org called AOC warns us, adds like he gets us, won't stop her from coming to get us. That's the Super Bowl ad. Yeah, now I didn't know there was a Super Bowl happening, but I heard about it afterwards and that there's this thing in the middle called a halftime where they have TV commercials. And in that, you know, let me correct you. The Super Bowl has been happening for a half a century. It's good to ignore it. But halftime is really where they bring out kind of pornographic performers and things. It's not for the kids. Let me tell you. But a lot of people do run these ads throughout the Super Bowl. You referring to one that was about Jesus, and it was called he gets us. And it was a kind of a pro Christian ad just designed to kind of pull people in and say, you know, Jesus isn't a boogeyman of the religious right, but he is the savior of the world. And he loves you. Right. And so I looked at they have a whole bunch of these ads. They created a whole campaign and they put several of them on the Super Bowl. And they seem to be a well meaning effort to dismantle hostility towards Christianity, but I'm kind of uncomfortable because what they do is Jesus was an immigrant. He was a refugee. Jesus was poor. Jesus resisted the power structure. Jesus was a victim of capital punishment. All the things about Jesus that don't matter at all. Because I say he was actually from Guatemala. Did they get that in? Nicaragua. And you have to say it in that NPR accent. So I was like, well, I'm next. I think the people who funded this were well meaning. I think they probably hired a bunch of woke tattooed Ivy League grads, but like, how can we make Jesus less repulsive? I know, we'll emphasize the fact that he had darker skin than, say, like, yeah, he wasn't white. He realized that he wasn't white, like the bad people.
In Defense of Plants Podcast
"second century" Discussed on In Defense of Plants Podcast
"Some traction, you know? I mean, if you can sum up my experiences over the last decade in academia, it's there's a lot of very intelligent people that are woefully out of touch. Yeah. And yeah, yeah. It's tough. And again, I realize that the pressures of being in an academic institution don't always sort of reward what you should do. It's what they need to make their bottom line and support all of the administrators that colleges feel the need to hire. I digress again. But you know, thinking about this from the need to think about application. And how do we manage our and deal with the landscape better? I could see where this could become the nuance would get rubbed off of this and people would say, well, here is the fire return interval we need. And this is exactly when we need to burn. So what do you think in terms of, again, your field bottle skills, knowing who you know in terms of habitat managers and the ecological science that you do, you know, is this a prescriptive sort of idea of this is when we should be doing and how often we should be doing it or is it more of an instance of it's okay to do those summer burns. It's okay to do the spring burns and it's all sort of habitat and gold based where do you want to be at sort of situation? Yeah, I would say the latter part. I don't think a lot of this sort of background almost understanding of historic fire regimes necessarily fundamentally changes how we approach. A lot of this work that we're doing. You know, when people ask questions like, well, how often should I be burning? My small little natural area. And I am not advocating that we burn our, you know, you got a little nature preserve or something like that. I'm not advocating you burn it every two years. I think that the old sort of rules of people who know what they're doing here. I think they still apply, you know, a lot a lot of our smaller fragmented natural areas. You burn just enough to keep that vegetation, structure, you know, that is your kind of your target goal. In many cases, that's probably more frequent than we're doing. If it's a new restoration, that's probably going to be even more frequent because you're really trying to establish the plants there. And that you want. And as a general rule, a lot of your dryer areas or your poor soils don't need to be burned as often as some of your wetter areas that you want to maintain. And you know, you got a shot out to some of the animals in the insects out there where you as much as possible, you want to try and not burn your whole natural area. You want to leave some little refuges where your insects or your butterflies can have a little place to recover for a year or two or whatever. And then you got to pay attention if you've got particularly rare and dangerous pieces of your site, you obviously have to pay attention to what their needs are. You'd hope. And you have to pay attention to your non native exotic species, you know? Like, are they increasing? Or are they decreasing? Is that, you know, so a lot of this stuff is kind of obvious, but. What do they call that? Adaptive management. To what you see. Right, right. And I'm really, you spelled it out really nicely there. And it is, it comes down to human value systems. What are your desired state? What are your goals here? And I think what your research has done here with your colleagues has illustrated just how much this has been a human value system. Science can inform these value systems, but we make the decisions at the end of the day. And what's amazing is that your research has uncovered that even prior to European settlement, the reasons for burning have changed, was it to manage for hunting and game, and then was it to keep people off my trail and to scare off the colonial influence. And then it becomes, you know, is it an awe with a sense of wonder and beauty or am I trying to harvest things? You know, every step of the way this has been a human value system and people have burned for different reasons. And so that's where it comes down to what you just outlined. What are your goals? What are you trying to do with it all? Yep. And I hope if there's one thing we can take is maybe that historical cultural appreciation of that this is a part of who we are as Americans and let's think about it. Let's celebrate it and let's do it as best we can as you said for what makes everybody happy and wealthy and wise. Yeah, man. Totally. No, that's a great point. And so with that in mind, doctor spirius, if people want to find out more about your work, maybe read this paper or some of the articles that have been sort of spawned from it. Where do you recommend they go looking to find out more about you and the work you and your colleagues put out? They can go to my website, which is at the Illinois natural history survey and just Google my name Greg spirius S PY RES or you can email me directly if you have specific questions. More and more we are putting our research papers out into the public realm. So even if you don't have a library access or something, you can just download them off our website or off the journal's website and you can Google them and you go to math websites and find links to them. So yeah. Excellent. And of course, as always, I will put up those links so people don't have to remember what we just talked about or write it down while they're driving or showering. But yeah, Greg, thank you so much for taking time to talk with us and for putting in the effort. This is, I know you did it in tandem with others, but monumental work very important work. And I think ecology is better because of it. So thank you very much for your time and for the effort you put in. Both as a field botanist and ecologist. Thanks, Matt. I appreciate an exact same thing to do. This work you're doing with the pod and with the website are just they're just awesome. And I love it. There are so few good science podcasts out there. And I think you're just killing it. Thanks. All right..
In Defense of Plants Podcast
"second century" Discussed on In Defense of Plants Podcast
"They're like, this was a Prairie landscape. I looked out at and when it's not burning, I mean, it was like 20 years, and it was a forehead. You know what I mean? Like they were amazed. They couldn't believe it. They're like, oh my God, what just happened? So it was ongoing and fast how quickly that landscape can change with such a dynamic system out there, you know? To me, that's kind of an unexpected benefit to looking into this in that context. It's like you go looking for records of fire, but you're also getting these ideas what happens when fire is removed and going back to what you said about the models where they were predicting 30 years. Here is firsthand accounts of how quickly the landscape changed as soon as you remove that disturbance regime from it. And what it goes to, which, again, if you're a land manager, working in these areas, you know how quickly that can be overrun, and even within a forested community, I think of, you know, you go and see something in southern Illinois where these these nice, oak Hickory forests with an open understory, and then you kind of come up into central Illinois where, you know, a little bit more human settlement, a little bit more human activity, a little less apt to put the fire and it just becomes this dense thicket of maples and hackberries. Yep, and that was really surprising and how consistently these people talked about it. And the Native Americans were managing that vegetation for plum thickets. And you know, all these different fruit crops and all these different things. So yeah, there was a lot of that. You know, they would want to know where they were in the vegetation success in spectrum. One thing that we couldn't get into is because we could only go back so far to 1600 was, you know, I had no very little about Native American history and cultures, but, you know, people talk about these huge mound building settlements like the cahokia mounds and there's others all across in Louisiana. Huge at a scale that we do not think of Native Americans populating these areas in huge agricultural and trading systems. And I'm sure there was a difference between back then and then the when those civilizations sort of probably broke apart because of contact with Europeans and the epidemics that associated with that. I'm sure that changed the firearm genes and the hunting regimes and stuff like that. So what would they have been like even before, you know, the current area. So there's a lot more to learn at. Yeah, I mean, this is just, I mean, it's good science, right? Is it opens up so many new questions that you probably didn't think of before. I didn't have the right context to frame them before, but you know, this is something I also say a lot on this podcast. Is this idea that when you talk to modern folk western folk about sort of habitat management, getting involved in sort of herbivore abundance over but it's a deer and stuff like that. They're like, well, that's a human problem. And if humans weren't here, this wouldn't be the dude, humans have been here for so long. And whether we know it or not, research like yours and others hints at the fact that the human influence on the landscape has been large, it's been extensive and it's been part of these ecosystems for millennia. I mean, you talk about what we know and recorded Native American history and then you think of all the pre recorded history that has happened on this continent alone, let alone everywhere else. And you start to realize that, oh yeah, we're also part of this. And the idea that we need to get involved is not this, oh my God, look at how much we messed up. It's like, no, we've always been involved. And we just need to think about how to do it in a way that doesn't completely destroy the landscape that we rely on to survive. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I couldn't agree more. Is this it brings up even more questions like the human impacts right with the first Native Americans in North America of the pleistocene giant mammals. You know what I mean? You could argue that, before human contact with North America, you know, you basically had the Serengeti of North America. You know, abundances and diversity of mammals that probably looked like Africa. You know, the African right, right? Right. And so in those contexts, you probably had a lot more lightning fire and less human fire. But there were so many more mammals have much larger mammals that those were probably the things that were keeping a lot of those grasslands and forests open. So you may even have a shift from primarily herbivore and grazer, massive animals, and huge abundances to less of them more human fire, keeping those habitats as they are. Yeah, so I think yeah. It's cool stuff, man. Yeah. It is, it's wild and I love there's nothing I love more than like sitting down and thinking deep time like that. I mean, 10,000 years versus 300 million, whatever, choose your battle, none of us can comprehend that amount of time. But it just goes to show you that there's never been a point in this world where you could say, let's return to that. And it really frustrates me when you see these conversations raging online among non ecologists non habitat managers that are like all these people just want to go back to what it was before. I'm like, no, no one worth their weight in anything in terms of land management thinks that's a possible let alone a realistic goal. That's like a 40 year out of date mentality that we just don't think of anymore. And it sucks to hear these like, again, non nuanced, oversimplified views of what restoration and ecological management really are. And you know, I think research like what you've published here with your colleagues is just proof of how much we still have yet to learn, but also gain from this sort of knowledge in terms of our relationship and stewardship of nature around us. Couldn't agree more. Couldn't agree more. You know, when you think about what you've accomplished with this, I mean, we were talking before I hit the record button here of just, you know, this is actually gained some traction. I've seen this shared among a lot of different outlets and stuff like that. And from the communication standpoint, this is the kind of work that needs to be taught all work needs to be talked about. But this is the kind of stuff that really kind of puts us into context with the rest of the world around us. How is the response been to all of this and what have you learned even after publishing this and getting it out to the world? You know, like all research, it takes a little while to get out there. You know, it's primarily with random feedback I get from people, you know, they'll say, hey, I saw your paper. Have you seen this before? You've seen that before. You know, this is really cool. I'd love to hear about what you think about my neck of the Woods. You know, what sort of fires that we saw around here that were particularly noteworthy. So that's a lot of the interest that I've seen. Yeah. So yeah, now you have to do the same thing in every physiographic region in North America. I'm glad it makes me happy when people are interested in this stuff, you know..
In Defense of Plants Podcast
"second century" Discussed on In Defense of Plants Podcast
"So yeah, it's a really fun project. And I got a shout out, Bill mcclane, again, this retired botanist and just the quotes that he came. He found. We're just like, they're just, I mean, if you go back and if you all want to go back and read this paper, it is just so much fun to hear what the heck was happening out there on the landscape. It was so interesting. Yeah, it's really red. And I mean, we're buddies, right? And I know you and I really respect the work you do, but even if I didn't know all this about you, I don't think I would Bach at saying this is a really amazing paper that takes a lot of interesting historical social sciences and combines it with hard ecology to almost show you sort of a, I hesitate to say prescription for what the landscape should be in this region, but it gives you a better idea of what was going on and what you sort of moving forward, what we can kind of think about in terms of how these ecosystems change and our influence by our actions. But as someone who's done the research and literature reviews and spent hours agonizing over data, how do you take quotes and letters and all of these very anecdotal sort of data points, so to speak and turn them into data that's usable in this context. I mean, what was that process like for you? Was it a learning curve? Or was it something that's kind of like, oh no, we'll just kind of code it as X, Y, and Z and go from there. Well, here's another familiar pet peeve of yours and mine with research is that you're probably not going to go into it thinking I'm going to spend 20 years in a library or I'm going to get ten year or I'm going to get a grant based on this. So you have to have some patience and flexibility, which the modern research world will not allow you for a type of thing. But turning that into data in this particular thing was like it was kind of question driven based on a lot of a couple of debates that were happening with our modern sort of management world. Specifically, I can talk about when is the best time of the year to burn? When did things burn historically? And one of the most tangible results we said is that the burn season historically was October and November in a part of the world. After first freeze, you'd kill back the annual, the vegetation dried out and you get a little dry period. And that primarily wouldn't burn. So you can talk all you want about late summer burns in this part of the world or spring burns. They probably did happen, but they were probably much much rare and much smaller in scale, most likely. So there are a couple of small things like that. Okay, where do we have? We threw out actually a lot of the accounts. We got because they didn't have a tangible variables that we could use. What time of the year was it, you know, what direction was the wind blowing? Where was the fire in the country? What day of the year was it? How big of an area did burn? Was it just, you know, small or was it a huge area? So we sort of said, okay, let's take those data points and try to make something interesting and useful out of those. Lightning. What was the cost? So that was another big thing. You know, you saw a clear trend going from this is exclusively Native American fire for hunting. Then it became Native American fire for I got a bunch of white people on my trail, tracking me in the military, and I'm literally burning to cover up my tracks so they can't track me, you know? Yeah, yeah, right. Or like I'm trying to actually keep these Europeans out of here, and I'm burning because I know they freak out by fire and we know how to manage fire. We know how to deal with fire, right? And then it turned into the source was, you know, all the things we talked about Europeans escaping from their campsite or something like that or it burned over a fire line. And then it became really, really huge source was locomotives like when there was steam powered coal locomotives were going through their little spark and then boom, you know? So that was kind of a fun thing to be able to track that data and say, what was the source? Of fires too. Wow. I mean, you're catching Succession in a lot of different ways. Culturally, historically, actual ecologically, so to speak. And I'm sure landscape context plays a big role in this. And so did you have to kind of also factor in how much the landscape was changing because of European settlement in the context of like you said, when you let a fire today goes two acres and then it Peters out when it hits an industrial cornfield, but historically that could have raged on for thousands of acres. Yeah, that's a great question. And we weren't able to fact that into the fire necessarily what was happening in real time. But it became apparent in some of the quotes like you could just tell, you know, you're talking about grass fires and then you're talking about wheat stubble, or people talking about, well, I just planted these acres of cool season grasses poa and brome around my house to keep the fires away, you know, as much as I can. But then they would talk about this came up over and over and over again was..
In Defense of Plants Podcast
"second century" Discussed on In Defense of Plants Podcast
"And what they were doing and they were a real interest in documenting these tribes what they were doing. But when it came to our part of the country, that hadn't that culture wasn't as established. So we just didn't know. We had these paintings and anecdotes about what was happening with fire. So Bill McLean, my colleague, he just spent years trying to piece together as many of these letters and journals and stuff like that as he could. And he just sucked out a lot of information for our part of the world. And, you know, we just sort of summarized it and tried to get it as a comprehensive picture of what we could find about what was happening pre settlement with fire in the Midwestern prayer region. Yeah. So it was more or less the Midwestern telegraph Prairie region, which is interesting to me because I'm in a backup and doing another tangent here for a second. There are a lot of fancy scientists in the forest service and whoever in academia who are trying to put together these maps, these predictive maps of what the pre settlement fire regime fire frequency fire intensity is for the United States. And they built their models on a bunch of variables, one of the variables, the strongest variables they found were number one, climate, which you don't is not surprising. How hot is the area? How often is it dry? Sure. Number two variable is human density. Pre settlement time. So how many Native Americans were just people generally were there from 1500 to 1850 in these areas? And it turns out the southeast had probably Florida and Alabama and all that had to probably the highest. That in the West Coast of California. So that variable that's climate human density and blanking on the third variable. Anyway, so then they use that to predict what the vegetation type was prehistorically and how often are burned. But then you would look at the Prairie region of the country and it was weird to me. It was like these are like really fancy proceedings in natural academy of science papers and science paper and they have the entire Midwestern prayer is like every 30 years. You know, fire or something like that. And I was like, what? If you had a Prairie that didn't burn for 30 years, you don't have a Prairie anymore. You know what I mean? You have Tunis before. Exactly. Exactly. And I'm like, well, how are these scientists putting together? So I went back and looked at it and what they were using to confirm their model of climate and human density was basically tree ring data. So they would go to the tree ring data and say, oh, that tree ring of fire frequency record matches what we get from our model. So that's how we're going to predict based on these tree rings. But if you look at the Midwest and the grasslands, the tree ring model is almost, you know, there's a couple really, really rare studies where there's a little forest blotch or whatever. But we don't have good estimates based on that. And so part of the reason I was so excited about this was like, well, that's wrong. And we have the data to show that that pre settlement firefighting is way more frequent than these models are coming up with, right? These big fancy computer simulations. So that was really fun. Wow. To be able to sort of put some heat behind the message that we sort of already guessed. Wow, that's a really neat look under the hood of your thought process there. And it's almost like, how the hell did you get that published in such a big journal with such a loose sort of, I mean, I get where it would work in a forested region, right? The southeast has a bit more forced ecosystem sort of inherent in it. But yeah, the Midwest that if you get a patch of trees, who's to say that you have enough resolution in those trees when we started finally looking at them to say anything about what's going on in a grassland and I mean, again, you talk to any land manager in the Midwest, you know, call it Bill handle, buddy Bill. And ask him what happens if you don't burn every 5 years at least. You know, there's just these inherent things that you're going. That makes absolutely no sense, which I think speaks to the benefit of you being a botanist in the field just as much as you are in the lab in the literature because you start to see where these people that I'm going to say this with knowing I'm getting some angry emails here is that just don't go out enough. Do not spend enough time in nature to know when their models are kind of silly. You know what I mean? So kudos to you for combining your skill sets to notice this gap and recognize where the strengths of moving forward on this to resolve something a little bit more realistic was needed and doable. Yeah, I mean, that being said, you know, they were working with the data they had. No, totally. And the maps, the maps are really neat. I mean, they really are cool. They show you in really nice detail. Oh, I forgot what the third variable is. You know, temperature, average mean temperature, historic human abundance, and precipitation, which is just basically, okay, you're going to have this much of a fuel load basically. Whatever. So and I recognize that. I recognize they're working with what they got, but this is the another color and I'm a parrot with this idea is go outside, get data in the field. You can only fall back on models so much. Right. And yeah, and they were you know, then these maps were being picked up by people as, you know, this is the gospel and you're like, wow, wow, slow down. You know, like you said, there are people who actually know more about this anyway. Yeah..
In Defense of Plants Podcast
"second century" Discussed on In Defense of Plants Podcast
"When it hits the next cornfield. Exactly. Exactly. Right? So, you know, yeah, if everybody's using fire to burn their to heat their home or to do whatever there's going to be a lot of escaping whatever. So there was still some scariness, let's say around there was a lot of fire out. They're still being used for 1830 to 1850 in my part of the Midwest. A lot of it was escaped. But they were starting to use it. Okay, I'm going to burn off my crops so that I can plow it more easily or I can get my planting in. I'm going to burn off my hay field to increase some productivity and release some nutrients to the soil. I'm going to burn out my cattle pasture or my wood lot just so that I can get more grass in the understory. I'm going to put in a firebreak here around my house. You know, I'm sick of these, you know, snakes. These damn snakes. Yeah. So it changed, and eventually they got good at it. They were still burning into the 19th century. You know, up into the smoky mountain. People were burning a lot. There was a real culture of fire, but it was, you know, if in my little lot here, I want to use fire as a tool, and they learn how to use it. And sort of responsibly. It's really interesting to me. There was a paper that came out about ten years ago. And it was using modus satellite technology, which I don't understand. I don't know anything about it. But they basically yeah, yeah. Some satellite in the computer space world algorithms. They're right. You know, satellites flying over and every time they spotted a fire in North America, they'd be able to pinpoint it and market it down. And so it was like a ten year dot map of every landscape sort of ish fire across North America. And you see these incredibly clear patterns, places that bright up today that are still being burned regularly. And it's very much a cultural thing. And the Ozark mountains, those mountains are being burned constantly. Then they were for a service went back and interviewed every fire escape fire that they could find and every land manager they could finally say, what caused this fire? What's that fire? And it was cultural. All culture. It's like I just learned how to burn my back 40 acres for my grandfather and I've been doing it forever. Or the number one source was arson and feud. I had a feud with this guy. And so I was faster on fire. I swear to God. This was the number one source of fire in the forest service region. Our beef. Yeah. That's not a joke. That is literally I couldn't believe it when I read. It was like 70% for a given year of fires like that. And then when you look at the other place that tend to let up would be like the northern great plains with the weight wheat fields, and that was very much an agricultural. Burn off the stubble, easier to plant and to plow in the future. And, you know, I'm not worried about it escaping because it's an agricultural landscape or in the Flint hills of Kansas. It's like I'm going to burn my cattle pasture because I, you know, I want to do this that in this. And to some extent in the southeast, you know, there's still some kind of a history or a cultural legacy of fire. So it's interesting to me. A lot of people like us who live in cities, you know, we don't have that perspective. What are you talking about? But a lot of the rural folk like if you're a hunter, if you're a fisherman, you know, you got a little acreage, like there's way more of a culture and they have a better relationship with these types of things. That's interesting. You brought that up because I'm thinking now back to my childhood and my uncle, they lived in New Jersey and he would go over and burn his lawn. And I remember being like, what are you doing? And it was one of those things. He's like, ah, the grass is just healthier that way and I just put out of mine. Oh, yeah, okay, whatever. But it's so interesting to hear that perspective over time because yeah, if you grew up again in the northeast like I did, you don't think about this as a regular thing because no one's going out and doing it or if there's a fire set and it gets away, that's a big deal. I mean, that is like local news channels are coming out for that kind of stuff. So it rings true when you hear the cultural elements that kind of drive or don't drive it. But backing up a little bit to like what motivated this search because this is a huge can of worms to try to open. And really get a good grasp on. So what a made you pursue it and B, how did you even start to define the scope of sort of how far you want to kind of look and how far back you want to go with fire history? Yeah, so the last study I was involved in, I have to say was originated by my colleague, Bill mcclane, who was just a cool guy. Like a really old school sort of meat and potatoes. He's almost like a historian. He just loves to lock himself in some weird archival room for days and days with no clear goal of reaping the benefits of this work. Just saying, I'm curious and I want to know more about the settlement and the Native Americans fire and I'm just going to see what's out there. So he actually had been for 20 years probably a retired botanist and going through these archival materials. Like I said, going back as far as he could get 1600s, it was as many written records and accounts as he could find to just sort of create a bibliography of as much information about fire. And a part of the world where we basically did not know very much about what was happening firewall. Like you said, you mentioned earlier, we had these sort of weird anecdotes, but it was less of a, as settlement happened by Europeans further east to west. We actually have a really good record of Native American fire use when you get out to the west because by then people were writing down these anthropogenic account Native Americans, ethnic historians were writing down everything they heard and they wanted to hear how we're using fire and what they were doing and they were a real interest in documenting these tribes what they were doing. But when it came to our part of the country, that hadn't that culture wasn't.
In Defense of Plants Podcast
"second century" Discussed on In Defense of Plants Podcast
"I'm right there with you in the empathy camp. I think of my buddy Jeff talbert, down in Florida that has to deal with not only the fact that what habitat he's working in is some of the little habitat that's left. So when you burn it, what happens to everything living there? It doesn't have a place to go and escape to. You know, it's not hundreds of thousands of acres of pristine intact wilderness. It's, you know, a few hundred acres surrounded by multi-million dollar homes, and that's the other part of it too. He's like, when I light a fire, I always have to worry about is this gonna jump into the giant tourist community where there's millions of dollars and I'm out for everything I own and then some if something goes wrong. We've kind of created a nightmare scenario in so many ways because you're damned if you do damned if you don't. If you light the fire, you're reducing the fuel load, but you run the risk of injuring neighboring stuff. But if you don't, then you're building up a field load for catastrophic outcomes. So it's tough and this human element, especially modern human element, just really can't be ignored in that long scheme sort of management policy. Yeah, you know, if I had my stay in the world, things would be a lot different. I could think of some examples where people are building right up to the wildland, what we call the wildland, you know, whatever force interface, right? Yeah. And they want that view. They want that quasi natural look, but they don't want them. They don't want to be bothered by fire, you know? And hey, you know, I want a lot of things that I, you know. Yeah, that's my old wilderness philosophy professor used to say, I want to go to space, but I'm in no shape to do that. So sometimes you just got to come to terms with the fact that you can't always get what you want. But I digress. So with these well, I was just thinking about when you're saying that how, you know, learning to come to terms and learning to have a better relationship fire. I think what this most recent study that we put out it was interesting to me to see the different stages that were pretty apparent with what was going on pre settlement contact by Europeans, big time settlement by Europeans and then into the modern landscape. They kind of learn the settlers kind of learned, you know. So we put together this document sort of scrounging through every historical record we could think of of any mention of fire in settlers letters or journals or books or diaries or whatever. And we tried to tease as much information as we could from that. And it was really obvious that trends you'd get. Initially that it would be like French trappers or explorers or hunters sort of writing down notes about what they saw in primarily in the Native American use of fire. And they were just in awe. It was like they thought it was the most beautiful, incredible scene they've ever seen where you'd see the prairies and The Woodlands just blowing and like just magical, you know? Like an ocean of fire and flames or whatever. And they just thought it was interesting. And they would talk about how every fall, the entire countryside was ablaze and there would be a haze of smoke and you know, blah, blah, blah, and it was just every single account. Was that exact thing over and over, you know? It was just so much a part of the landscape and the lifestyle of the Native Americans with their hunting parties and their this and managing the landscape with the and the original Europeans Asia were like, they were in awe and they thought it was incredible. And then once you had the European settler and component where people would be coming out west, starting to set up their homesteads or whatever the accounts were so not in awe and it was absolute horror while they were so horrified. Every single one of their accounts is like just this language that you can't believe. It's like blood curdling, like I'm so afraid that our farm was burned, our House was burned. Our horses were burned. People were burned, you know. Wow. And then eventually they sort of got the bug, and they sort of learned potentially from Native Americans. They learned how to use fire. There would still be all kinds of escapes, right? Because, you know, for whatever reason, you lose the fire off and it the landscape wasn't like ours. If you lost the fire back then, you know, it's going to burn for 500 miles. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't burn out in an acre.
In Defense of Plants Podcast
"second century" Discussed on In Defense of Plants Podcast
"The most fundamental things that maintain our habitats. You know, through much of North America, really. And I try to be as much as I can and implied ecologists, where I want to study things that will help people to better conserve and restore our habitat, our floras and our faunas. And fire is just a natural thing like what do we know about it? What do we know about its effects? What do we know about its history, both social history and ecological history? And just seeing the amount of trouble that we, as ecologists are having in managing our habitats and our lands in as best the way we can to conserve some of our native flora and fauna, that sort of drew me to it. I'm like, I can't believe how much we don't know. We can do better. We gotta do better at understanding these natural processes that we used to have a lot and now we've in many case lost. Yeah, that's a really great point. And it's always refreshing to hear someone that is publishing a lot, doing good science, but also doing it in the context of thinking of how can this be applied? How can we learn from this to do better moving into the future? Because sometimes it just kind of stops at how do we get data and I like to play with data not to say there's a problem with that, but I'd like to see these camps talking a lot more. And when it comes to fire, I mean, look at the media, right? There's no way you can spin it to not think that we have a very problematic view of fires in this world. And unfortunately, what we're exposed to nowadays, or at least most of the general public is catastrophic wildfires. And it becomes this issue of nuance, which is like one of the worst words in the world right now. No one wants to deal in nuance, but when you talk about fire, any college, you need nuance, because it's not all of these ground sterilizing fires that destroy everything and it'll be decades before anything resembling an ecosystem returns. But that's all we end up seeing, but a lot of it has to do with our very poor interaction with fire in the landscape over the last century and a half. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, that's a great way to put it. That is, yeah, that's the perfect title right there. Our very poor foolish relationship with fire over the past century and a half, that's sums it up to me perfectly. Yeah, and the lack of subtlety, you know, the lack of nuance. It's got to be all or none. It's got to be ferocious landscape scale, terrible fire versus just smokey the bear, no fire anywhere ever. You know what I mean? So that's I think that point is starting to finally get through people's heads in some extent where you say like, okay, we've been trying this no fire for a hundred years and look what the consequences is out west. Now granted there are a lot of other things that are contributing to what we're seeing out west. But that's not sustainable. It's not going to work. It's not going to be good for our habitats, and it's not going to be good for us. Yeah, it's an ongoing communication side battle, right? Because you start to see trickles of larger institutions larger outlets, starting to talk about this in a more nuanced way, bringing in this idea that people have been putting fire on the landscape for a very long time. And it's been a natural process for even longer, right? And so one of the things that kind of continues to floor me is someone that grew up in the northeast in the temperate deciduous forests that you just don't really associate wildfires with is just when you look back in the record, regardless of where you're at. There's very few places in the long run that haven't had some sort of historic fire regime. Now it might not be a frequent one with one to ten years or so, but they've been an occurrence, whether it's natural anthropogenic on some level. Such a great point. It is so hard for people to make that connection. It kind of doesn't matter where you are around in our neck of the world. There has always been now granted there are, again, nuanced. There are low cut local, you know, little interspersion of areas depending on what the habits that maybe you're in like a nice protected cove forest or a really wet swamp, you know? Like there's always going to be some exceptions, maybe a certain type of bog that's really wet wouldn't have burned. But other than that, most areas burn. And it was it varied a lot, you know? It varied a lot. There are some people that places that burn, maybe every two or three years for who knows how many centuries and there are other places where maybe it was every 30, 40 years, maybe up in the northeast, something like that. Yeah. But it's part. It's our ecosystems were birthed in fire. They were maintained in fire. They're healthier with fire. You know, for the most part, that's the reality of it. Yeah. Yeah, and it becomes this issue of trying to understand the landscape as altered as it can be at times, but that's kind of the nuance you were getting at where yeah, okay, this cove might not have burned, but all of the outcrops around that cove probably did fry it at some point or another. But the key here is trying to try to tease out that nuance. And the unfortunate part is, you know, unless you have this oral history of communities that have talked about it and understand it for what it is and the management tool that it's been for millennia. A lot of times you're kind of left with, well, who wrote down what and where? And that becomes sort of a challenge for ecologists like you land manager, especially today trying to figure out, well, what kind of ecosystem was this? Do we have any hope of understanding what it used to be here? And again, moving into a future dominated by climate change and anthropogenic disturbance on the landscape. How do we use this in a way not to say we're going back to anything of what it once was, but where do we get smart about the way we use it moving forward? So is that a challenge, I guess as a botanist and someone that's doing ecological research at the same time? Yeah, I mean, it is very much a challenge. The first place, the absence of let's say in my part of the world in the tall grass Prairie forest transition zone of the Midwest, like the first place, the lack of data at what the sort of pre settlement fire escape and fire regime was like. But then even if you had really good at data on that, okay, that was the past. What should be the present of what do we want to do? What do we want to accomplish? What's ideal? What's feasible? It's a real challenge, you know? I feel I almost feel bad for the land managers, the people who do on the groundwork, the people who are at the end of the day have to make the decision of cares at the end of the day, the decision I need to make. I need to decide for this species. How is it going to do with fire? How was the forest going to do? How is the ground layer going to do with fire? How are the animals? What time of year should I burn? How hot of a burn should it be? I have to worry about the human dimensions. Where's the smoke going to go? Just the number of things that I just feel so bad like how hard it is and I have such appreciation for people who do this actual on the groundwork. It's incredible. The number of things you need to think about and worry about, am I getting this right, you know? That's useful. Is this appropriate? And it's all about that modern context nowadays for land managers..
In Defense of Plants Podcast
"second century" Discussed on In Defense of Plants Podcast
"Right, doctor Greg spirius, welcome back. It has been a long time since you've had you on the podcast. So how about you refresh us? Tell us a little bit about who you are and what it is you do. Hello, doctor Matt. May I call you that? Yeah, totally. Thank you. It's a rare case when that happens. It sounds cheesy. Anyway, Greg spirius is my name. It is I. I am a botanist and plenty of colleges at the Illinois natural history survey housed at the University of Illinois in Champaign urbana, where I work with rare plant surveys, vegetation surveys, and I also do a little research on this side. You do a lot. And as someone that gets to see your day to day, a little bit more than most. Listening to this, I don't know how you manage to balance everything that you do. But you seem like you're functioning. You're doing all right. Yeah. It's not a bad gig. So what brought you to becoming a botanist? I mean, are you someone that always liked plants or did you kind of stumble into it later on through education or hobbies, whatever? You know, every time I hear that question, inevitably hear from people saying, well, I grew up, you know, going on camping trips and hiking trips or whatever. And I just, you know, I love that blah blah blah and that was not my experience. I grew up as a city kid who wanted to be a baseball player for a living. And the only really exposure I had to nature was, I would watch these nature documentaries like on PBS or whatever. And I just, you know, I'm in an apartment with three women and I'm sharing a room and it's cramped and urban space and I'm just like, I want to go to that jungle that I just saw on that show, you know, or whatever. And you know, it's one of these things. This is another something that a lot of people do say where you're like, I didn't realize you could do that for a living and it took me until I was like 20, whatever years old to actually saw, oh, there are people who do that for a living and I just got a couple of good breaks. I had some good mentors, I got lucky and you know, I wound up going to school and coming a botanist. Yeah. Nice. Well, I'm going to shout out a previous colleague of yours, Jared Duquette, that said something should come of sort of the social side of what I do in podcasting. And what you just said there made me think of everyone I talked to week to week to week. And I think it's actually more of a majority came to botany way later in life. Usually through college or an internship or something like that. I think it's actually a rarity when you hear someone that's like, oh, I grew up loving plants. And it would be interesting just to do like go through 300 X out episodes and just get a ratio of how many people discovered it late or always loved plants. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So anyone listening that's a social scientist do that because I'm not. I don't feel like doing that. Right, right. And it makes and it also makes me think one of the things that you have probably experienced in this academic world. There's so much of a push towards getting underserved communities, education and exposed to these things. But in our case, in my case, it was these mentors that I, you know, randomly in school who said, hey, you should try this. Come on this, take this class or something like that. And without that exposure, I would have never, ever imagined it was in the realm of possibility or been exposed to some of these things. So, you know, yeah. And it's one of those things that I think it's good to trickle it in all through life, right? And just have exposure to it wherever you can. But so much of it really does come down to that crunch mode when you're like, what am I going to do for the rest of my life? Who am I going to make a living? Exactly. You just have these moments, and yeah, sometimes it's an internship or a volunteer opportunity or just a good mentor that says like, oh, check this out. And if you're like me, I was always in nature not, but there was a good chunk of my teen years. Let's say that I forgot about all external stimuli and focus purely on being cool and we'll say for whatever reason I wanted to be cool. But today we're talking about you, doctor spirius the botanist. Yes, botanist. Yes. So your botanist in a larger sense, you work in a lot of different capacities as you kind of hinted at. But the reason we got you back on the podcast today is to kind of talk about fire adapted ecosystems and sort of the history of fire adapted ecosystems. So in thinking about all of the work that you do, the last time you were on, for instance, it was talking about milkweeds in the relation to monarchs specifically how we utilize space wild spaces in the Midwest. But you're kind of gone a different direction and kind of looking at more of an ecosystem perspective as it relates to fire. So what brought you to fire other than the fact that you live in a tall grass Perry ecosystem?.
The Purple Principle
"second century" Discussed on The Purple Principle
"That was dr. Omar ali historian and author of in the balance of power independent black politics and third party movements in the united states really informative book and with all due respect to other historians refreshingly lee easy to read that's absolutely to jillian dr ali rights says he speaks authoritative but accessible and he's raised awareness of some really important movements in issues for indie minded americans of all races i and most importantly the insight that the civil rights movement of the twentieth century was an independent mobilization outside the two party system and that the two major parties so constantly ignored racial issues throughout early history that black-americans felt they had no choice but to form other groups and parties this fourth of july yours not mine we saw democracy feeling in america. You can impersonate what you do. The heaven lifting take the boss the late to drop the two party system and go independent with a passion for those. Who'd like more on this topic. We'll be posting a longer length interview with dr omar ali available for patriot supporters. Stay tuned for more on that but next time on the purple principal. We're going to journey. If only microphone to the great state of kentucky home to world renown whiskey horse races and the hugely successful podcast pantsuit. Politics were smart spiritual in respectful conversation. Even about things political. I mean we really formulated the greville political conversations as a subtitle to our book and we were trying to capture the environment. We'd built over years at pantsuit politics where we do use the word grace. Allot in what we were trying to do. Is put the focus on the connection that we hold with one another But grace's often about giving it when you don't receive it and so we try really hard to say. This is an exercise not to convince everyone to agree with us or even to adopt our style but to set an expectation for ourselves in terms of what values we bring into our political conversations. We'll be speaking with creators and hosts of that show sarah stewart holland and beth silvers who put forth over five hundred episodes and written a few books in spare time that you wouldn't even think they'd have including think you're wrong but i'm listening right or wrong. We hope you'll listen to that episode. Look for patriotic. Page coming soon. Connect with us via our website and social media and stay indie minded in these polarized times. This has been robert peas jillian youngblood for the purple principal. Team allison burn producer. Kevin kline senior audio engineer. Emily holloway digital strategy dom scarlet and grant sharat research associates. Emma trujillo audio associate original music composed and created by ryan dare rooney. The purple principle is a fluent knowledge production..
The Purple Principle
"second century" Discussed on The Purple Principle
"People want change in america and of course. He wasn't allowed presidential debate stage but she may have very well laid the groundwork for perot's bigger success for years later when he gets nineteen percent of the vote. so tell us about nor of alani. And how you know she kind of laid. The groundwork not only for a third party run but possibly for obama and other candidates. Yeah i mean fulani was part of that sort of that. Tradition were expression independent black leadership. That goes back to frederick douglass and do boys and an harold washington which was to again create something independent of the two major parties and do that by bringing people together. Her voice was a is one of a progressive sort of politics. But it's also one that includes space for people who only want to agree on. Maybe that the process needs to be opened up. So interestingly when we think about the american revolution was a revolution that was talking about political process. Which is not something that we talk about today in politics today. We talk about really. Where do people stand on education. Where do they stand on law enforce where they stand the different things like these policy positions but not the process itself but she was saying no. I have a progressive sort of outlook on the world. But i will work with anyone who wants to challenge the the limitations of our electoral process you to make it more inclusive. that's great. Maybe we should end with a felony quote. I'm not sure if i'm getting this right. And maybe you can add a little bit of context to it. But i believe after her campaign she was asked. Was it toughest to be a black female. Yeah i love that quote. I love that. Says she said that. Basically yeah right after you know. She was asked by you know. Was it more difficult. Dr flying to run as a as an african american is a black candidate whereas a woman she thought she responded actually being independent because admissions incredible right and the reason why is because the laws have been designed to exclude independence regardless of color race. Whatever but it's the overall culture that again to go to the political scientists has been buttressed by the political science establishment with few exceptions to make. It seem like the only way you can function politically in. This world is through parties and through ideology. But it's challenging time culturally in america beyond the economic sort of hardships that many people are going through and but we have to push back on that To be more philosophical to be more playful to be more open to working with people who don't agree with on many issues but we might agree with on the issues of process and inclusion. That's an important thing. And that's the founding of this country no taxation without representation as a call to arms around political process. Not just around the narrow idea of taxation. It's about the representation and inclusion..
The Purple Principle
"second century" Discussed on The Purple Principle
"That's our special guest today. Historian dr omar ali author of in the balance of power. And there's an important point in there that really bears repeating the liberty and free soil parties. Which many of us didn't hear much about in school. They really pave the way. For the anti-slavery republican party formed in eighteen. Fifty four which then overwhelms the whigs that have been a major party for decades. So there's this ebb and flow in our party politics overtime or at least at that time it does seem like the major parties are so much more deeply entrenched today but there have been independent minded black politicians who challenged that dominance not too long ago such as presidential candidate lenora felony and chicago mayor. Harold washington washington managed to defeat the democratic machine that kept the richard daily dynasty in the chicago. Mayor's office for get this not two or three terms but between the father and the son eleven. Count them eleven terms totaling over four decades. So let's talk about three of the more modern campaigns by either black independent candidates or in one case an insurgent democratic candidate harold washington. Democracy is not a goal. it's not so many pounds of this rousers that democracy is a process which is designed to bring out. The broad is possible spectrum of opinion for the purpose of making public policy decisions. And so in. Chicago's nineteen eighty-three democratic primary. For the mayor's office. Harold washington was somehow able to defeat the very powerful democratic party that controlled chicago politics for decades. Tell us how washington was able to do that. Well i think it all comes down to base building. And i think that sometimes base building can only take you so far but he was a great organizing the people around him really had built an independent base of support mostly among african americans but among other groups of people as well and he was saying things that challenged the established partisan system in chicago and was able to pull this off and was seen as sort of like a model for something that could possibly be done on the national level enforcing he died and that effort was carried on in part by the work of a new generation of independent black leaders namely dr lenora salani who had been working with jesse jackson to try to urge him to go the course of independence in running the democratic party primary. But then if you didn't get the nomination goes independent ultimately. He stayed with the democratic party and she said well if he's not doing that. Let me run as an independent so we can build a movement that would bring together not just african americans. You know to not get have them be so dependent on the democratic party but people from across america. Yeah well the jesse jackson campaign in eighty eight. I think a lot of people may have forgotten. How competitive he was as candidate. How electrifying his speeches were at that time and remember. Most poor. People are not on welfare. They work day. They do the heavy lifting. Take the boss. They work the late shift. Most poor people anita brown black white the female their yom invisible. But they'll all god's children less how a one big certainly obama credited him later on but twenty years before obama. You know here is a national figure. Competing very successfully. Why do you think he decided not to run as an independent and do you think. In hindsight he might have had some success. I don't know if you would have had some success. But he would have helped to build the movement of independence. I think that he got would back into the full the democratic party in some ways. There's a parallel where. I think that he thought that he was. He was more powerful than than was the case. And i'll say this about president obama who had built an independent base among americans and literally. His database made up of democrats obviously but some republicans disaffected republicans and independents but he essentially gave over his entire database to the democratic party. Because he thought that his if you will his obama the magic obama the extraordinariness of this person. His abilities would be able to sort of maintain itself beyond the party but the parties are very powerful. Very very powerful not only economically but culturally basically three roads were being sort of carved out with one was stick with the democratic party because at that point they had gotten some black elected officials and office form a an all black political party or form a multi-racial third party and ultimately jackson spoke vehemently sort of about the importance of a black party but he would ultimately side with the democratic party again very powerful forces you mean many of the great heroes like john lewis and many others had who had been independence on the streets they were the civil rights movement was not a democratic party movement or republican movement. It was an independent movement. That's what it was and it was effectively coughed by the democratic party. Well let's talk then a little bit about lenora falani. It's really remarkable and i. I'm not sure again. Our young listeners know that she was able to get on the ballot in all fifty states. And i think the biggest issue in this year's race is the vote for independence. I think we need to drop the two party system and go independent with a passion if.
The Purple Principle
"second century" Discussed on The Purple Principle
"The first one being sort of at the time of the american republic formation and so the liberty party was created as a tactic to engage the political establishment. I think that they did not have any illusions of necessarily winning. Although you know in some cases they were close but they were trying to create public conversation around the issue slavery. Even though a person like thomas. Jefferson did confide some of his fellow planners that if there is a just god. We're in for it. Because he star that there was a morality to slavery as well so it wasn't like people are completely clueless but it wasn't a public issue yet and so the had to make it a public issue so a way to make it a public issue was to form third party caller liberty party and try to advocate for an anti slavery platform so the liberty party competes in several elections. I believe eighteen forty eighteen forty four but then things get a little complicated seemingly when the free soil party is formed as more of like a a moderate or an incremental or more pragmatic approach. So tell us about the formation of the free soil party and their position which wasn't fully for abolition. It was for as i understand it anti extension or the extension of slavery to new states. Yeah the free soil party. Like you're saying was not an outright abolitionist. Party was in some ways. I mean i think people sought as a way of increasing the size of the camp of people who could be ultimately could undermine the system of slavery and so the idea was to not allow the new territories that would come into the republic to become states that allowed for slavery and they advocated for this position which at the time was quite radical Relative to everything and many people who weren't willing to abolish slavery outright or see it abolished believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with it. And the argument brought people who were not anti-slavery but didn't like the idea of their free labor that is paid labor to be degraded by having people who worked alongside them who were slaves and so it was an interesting mix of a coalition as politics. Oftentimes brings strange bedfellows. So both to liberty and the free soil. Party's you know work extremely hard. But i do not really have electoral success and yet kind of amazingly as we look back. The republican party is formed as the anti slavery party in eighteen fifty. Four and six years later it wins the white house so what was the contribution of the liberty and free soil parties to the rather rapid success of not an outright abolition party but certainly anti-slavery party. Yeah i mean it's Some ways you can think of the free soil and liberty parties as having to develop and then cultivate a network which would grow in time and create a movement which would lead to the formation of the republican party. I mean it's all about movement formation building networks and so the republican party was the beneficiary of those who've been working ten fifteen years prior to that to establish sort this idea of a third party. That was either directly depending on the wing of the party against slavery or certainly was not going to try to extend it so in some ways it was a continuation of the same phenomena. So it's remarkable to look back now at how quickly a third party became a major party. It's almost inconceivable now that that that could happen in the same way. So i guess. The two parties have had a lot of time to entrench their power absolute post civil war and reconstruction. There's another interesting party that you talk about that. Maybe a lot of people are not so familiar with the greenback labor party. Yeah so this is a movement that kind of continues this idea of the sanctity in the importance of free labor that this is something that all people should have the right to to exercise their own labor under their own agency and so it's part of that early labor movement and now we're talking about people that are more in urban centers even though a lot of their base is actually rural still so this is a shift towards will you know networks that will be given expression in the form of the knights of labor and and other labor associations so again. Another party is formed in eighteen nineties. The people's party. This is a time when democrats in the south. Are you know really suppressing disenfranchising. Black voters turnout is going down and yet somehow the people's party is able to have some success in local elections in south carolina and texas. Yeah so we look at african americans in particular. You have emancipation. You have reconstruction which really begins in eighteen. Sixty three so two years before the civil war ends. It's beginning the reconstructing of the rebuilding of the infrastructure in the northern part of the south where the union is in control and also the political institutions and reconstruction will will be enforced till about eighteen. Seventy seven when it comes to collapses under pressure of democratic party interests in its in this period where you have african americans trying to figure out what to do they don't just sort of save call it quits. Because they can't they're not in that privileged position to do so they have to keep figuring out ways to keep pushing for again basic civil political economic rights and so they formed through the church's a leadership that will take the form of various agricultural associations. And you have white farmers doing something similarly and so you have organizations that are like call the granges and other groups that will come together in the eighteen eighties. And as far as african americans concerned the umbrella organization was called the cover farmers alliance which started in texas but really spread throughout the south and so they decide to go into the electoral arena and so together with white who were not happy with democratic party in the south and which was the dominant party in the south. It was the party of white supremacy. They come together they form. What's called the people's party or the populists and they feel candidates and it's in this period of time that you actually have this. Coalition made up of african americans were many of them had been actually slaves just years prior coming together with white southerners many of whom had been confederate soldiers and they take over they actually take over parts of the south and you see a rise a pushback by the paramilitary organizations that are tied to the democratic party. Most famously the ku klux klan. And you see a rise of lynchings and a terrorism in the black community but also directed towards white sympathizers and that movement will come to an end by eighteen ninety eight in north carolina with the wilmington riots but across the south by nineteen hundred. Let's talk a little bit about the progressive era and it's always hard to summarize in era but it does seem looking back that from civil rights standpoint. It's disappointing i mean you have these kind of broad-minded. Progressive individuals like robert. Lefevre lead teddy. And you know. They're approached by the leaders of the african american community like w e b was and he's kind of rebuffed by the progressives. Yeah it's true. It seems like dumb at nina. I'm just saying. I think that racism is so deeply entrenched in the american psyche. That i think it was hard for labor leaders to in some ways african-americans fully as their brothers and sisters. If you will and in some ways the analysis well will just going to organize all workers and not attend to this issue of race. They didn't attend also to issues.
The Purple Principle
"second century" Discussed on The Purple Principle
"Other major figures in the story of independent viewpoint and mobilization include. Wep deblaze malcolm x. herald washington and north alani the. Let's start by getting acquainted with dr omar ali author of in the balance of power. Well let me first of all say thank you for inviting me to be on this podcast and creating a space like this where people can have conversations that are not over determined by the two party framework so i deeply appreciate the name of the podcast. And what you've are providing folks a space to do with the book basically does is it. It tells a story of the ways in which african americans have had to effectively insert themselves in to the dominant structures political structures of society by creating independent political organizations associations networks and a parties in some instances to advance civil political economic rights of african americans and joined at times porn working white people and other groups of people to advance democracy in america. Let's start with some of the major figures familiar to most of our listeners. He briefly mentioned federick. Douglas he had a remarkable transformation from looking at slavery as kind of a religious or spiritual issue and then became more and more involved in politics. So tell us about the transformation of federick. Douglas i think like all leaders with deep and abiding commitment to the people in this case. I think douglas identified most obviously closely with african americans. But i think he was pro people in general he evolved because he saw some of the limitations of whatever tactic he was deploying like he moved from the idea of moral suasion. Which was the idea that you could basically through teaching one's own story and that of others who had been enslaved and relying on religious doctrine you could morally swayed people to do the right thing and that you know that he saw as limited ultimately took armed revolution in the form of the civil war for slavery to be overthrown. And so yes there were some people who saw the light if you will and decided to free their own slaves but they were just handfuls of people. The vast majority of slave owners did not want that to go way. Tell us a little bit. More about. W e b boys who obviously embraced several different ideologies as a means towards perhaps some progress on civil rights perhaps didn't see the success in his lifetime that came soon. Afterwards all propaganda we saw democracy fading. In america fewer and fewer people went to the pool it was increasingly difficult to know. For whom or one was voting. But he certainly a fascinating figure you tell us about his journey in this. Yeah i mean like douglas. I mean he began to see some of the limitations of his organizing which went from effectively using the pen and to tell the stories of tragedies and document the lives of black people to joining major parties a wing or forming coalitions that ultimately would create challenges to depart is is what i want to say and then effectively abandoning a and saying well. The two party system isn't going to work and nor are these third parties and he left ultimately but he laid the groundwork for many others to understand some of the broader history. Y'all let's jump ahead to the civil rights era and you talk about the famous speech by malcolm x. I believe it's called the ballot or bullet speech in despite the fact that you are in a position to be the determining factor. What do you get out of it. All the democrats have been in washington. Dc only because of the negro vote. They've been down there for years and all other legislation. They wanted to bring up. They've brought up and getting it out of the way and now they bring up and now bring up you. Impersonate put you last. And so malcolm x. is expressing their concern over dependence on the democratic party which is a theme throughout your book if you want real political leverage. You don't wanna be so loyal to party that they don't do anything for you. Yeah absolutely yeah in his famous the ballot or the bullet speech he talks about. How any kind of dependency is problematic. And billy identifies both parties as limitations on the freedom of african americans and so he was a critical early voice. That's our special guest today. Dr omar ali prolific author on the african diaspora. He's discussing some of the most notable independent black intellectuals in us history frederick douglass wbz boys malcolm x. and others which makes us wonder about the broader forces at work here the movements behind these leaders that represented hundreds of thousands of americans and eventually millions in this part of the interview. Dig deeper into that movement history. Beginning with the abolitionist liberty party. The played a spoiler role in the eighteen forty four elections but also spawned the anti-slavery republican party that was formed only a few years before bringing abraham.
The Purple Principle
"second century" Discussed on The Purple Principle
"Hey there are purple. Principal headsets ear buds and eardrums robert. Ps here and jillian youngblood with quick reminder before the episode starts about our newsletter purple principal. Imprint we'd love to email you. This curated roundup of articles issues and news on the perils of political and social polarization and as groups and individuals. Working to bridge the red blue divide published every two weeks p p imprint allows you to share the in depth research. We do here at the purple principle and it takes you down. Interesting paths not fully explored on the podcast. Recent topics have included the filibuster presidents from film and tv and the politics industry. Not a simple thing as polarization click lincoln our show notes to subscribe..
The Patriot AM 1150
"second century" Discussed on The Patriot AM 1150
"I'm Dave Anthony Fox News, and it's up to 18 people found dead in the Surfside, Florida condo collapse. Two of these were Children. Aged four, and 10 Miami Dade Mayor Daniel 11 Cav 145 remain missing. First responders are using three D images created by the Israeli defense forces to help rescuers identified were victims. And maybe even survivors could be foxes Charles Watson and serve side where President Biden will visit later this morning. A new tropical storm just formed in the Atlantic Elsa, it could threaten South Florida next week. Former president Trump took a trip to Texas then told Fox's Hannity We have a border that's very bad right now and very dangerous for our country, blaming President Biden for stopping Wall construction and undoing his policies that Democrats claim were cruel and undermined immigration, while China faces international pressure to cooperate with the probe to find Covid, and if it leaked out of the lab studying viruses Celebration day They're foxes. Simon. No one has more live David, a lavish ceremony in Tiananmen Square marking 100 years of China's ruling Communist Party President Xi Jinping said China will not allow itself to be bullied, and he said anyone who tries will end up with their heads bashed and bloody in front of the iron Great wall of the 1.4 billion Chinese people for you with anybody. Yeah, you always, he said the goal for the party Second century is to develop China into a great modern socialist power. Dave Simon Bill Cosby spent the night at home after being set free when the Pennsylvania Supreme Court overturned his sexual assault conviction cause We still denies any wrongdoing. Tweeting quote. I have never changed my stance nor my story. I have always maintained my innocence. Thanks to all of my fans and supporters who stood by me through this ordeal. Foxes Actually, Strohmeyer America's Listening to Fox.
Stuff To Blow Your Mind
"second century" Discussed on Stuff To Blow Your Mind
"Right we're back so particular note. Here is greek geographer. Bassani civilized one. Ten through one eighty c and some indeed point to to him as being the world's first travel writer. He wrote a book in the second century. Titled hilas geus or the description of greece and it is essentially a travel guide Reading about this in an atlas obscure article titled the world's first travel writer was a guy from ancient greece by lauren. young and she She chats with maria pressler professor of ancient history at swansea university in wales and the author of a book about Bassani s bassani. A travel writing in ancient greece and the author says that you know they were smaller guides at the time but bassani assists book is the largest and the most comprehensive that survives to this day and also it still works. It's still functions as a travel guide. You know obviously the world has changed but a lot of the places an even landmarks are still there interesting now though the full texts can be found online. And i invite everyone to go. Check it out. Because it's it's very recognizable in travel literature. This is not an example where you're looking at ancient writings and you're having to really you know. Squint bed and take a few leaps of faith to identify it as travel writing. No you read it. And it reads more or less like modern travel guides. In fact i highly recommend when you read it. And make sure that the voice that you hear in your head is tuned to your favourite. Tv travel guide. Maybe rick steves or someone because it's exactly the sort of thing. Rick steves would say it'd be like pisani as saying..
KFI AM 640
"second century" Discussed on KFI AM 640
"Was interesting to me because I have written about a lot of these themes and this and these artifacts in prior books, so the back quick, so I mentioned I've written about that before. Brandenburg. Something written about that before. I'd also written about a native American tribe. The man Dan tried them and DEA and called the White Indians I've written about them before, and the prevailing theory. It always been that they were Ascendance of Welsh explorers again. That makes sense. But but in particular Welsh, Prince May Doc who is 1/7, or perhaps 11th century Prince? The historical sources differ on that. But one of the theories was that he came over during that time period and that he's the man than Indians, where the descendants of May Doc and his On his crew members. Um, but the artifacts again all our earlier than May, Doc. There are a lot of 2nd and 3rd century artifact, so that doesn't really hold together. However, if the wealth Came over in the second century. As I theorized, and not later with made off then the whole idea of the Mandan tribe being Welsh still makes sense. And the reason people think they sent from Welch is The earliest, Uh, pioneers who went out and met them encountered them said, basically said, they speak a Welsh language well, like language and that their appearance and a lot of their customs and a lot of there. They're they're resemble their housing. Whatever. It was very European in English. There was in particular, Uh, a lawyer who ended up studying the Native American tribes. He he spent six years living with the Western tribes. His name was George Catlin, and he lived amongst other tribes who lived with the mandate and he wrote, If I could read that all quoted quote, I am fully convinced that the Mandan have sprung from some other origin than that of other Native American tribes. Stranger and the Mandan villages that once disposed to exclaim. These are not Indians. There are a great many of these people whose skin are almost white with Hazel with gray and with blue eyes. So Right away. It jumps out at you and again, he mentioned the fact that they're there. They live in villages where the other Western tribes were more nomadic. Their design of their canoes is very similar to what we find in the British Isles. A lot of the religious practices were reminiscent of some early Christianity type things. And so there's a lot of evidence most striking again. Was there a their appearance and be their language? So it's entirely possible that this group of Roman Of soldiers like eventually took native Wife. And what we end up with is, uh, down the road of has Native American tribe that exhibited.