20 Episode results for "School Of Business"
An ancient rock suggests a new theory for how life started | Tara Djokic
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Welcome to Catalyst!
"Welcome to catalyst. I'm tiffany sumner from temple. University's Fox School of business. Catalyst is about pivotal moments that shaped business and the global economy. We interview experts and dig deep in today's most pressing questions such as what is the future of work with the robots really take our jobs. And how is my company using my data? We explore these questions. So you the workforce can spark change in your field. Opposites are timely provocative and designed to help us all. Today's biggest challenges subscribed today.
Thoughtful Thursdays 015: Do hierarchies decrease or increase employee engagement?
"Welcome to hacking, your leadership, I'm Chris and welcome to another thoughtful Thursday's episode. Thanks again to all our listeners for tuning in twice a week. And for spreading the word about hacking, your leadership, don't forget to follow us on Instagram at hacking, your leadership and leave us a review in whichever podcast platform, you use all right for this week's episode. I wanna talk about the role hierarchies play in connecting employees to the mission of your organization's nominee things universally impact. The engagement productivity in job satisfaction of employees, regardless of where they are in their career or what their job is. But one thing that still does is whether or not that person's job makes them feel significant, and I don't significant is in famous or well known, but significant is in that they matter that the mission of the organization is one they view as important and that the work they do is contributing to that mission. In a meaningful way. It's an intrinsic part of the human condition and companies that do a good job of making employees feel this way. Typically, have good culture and low turnover for years, authors, and consultants and experts have touted the benefits of flattening organizations were hierarchies are minimized. Or eliminated where everyone can talk to everyone and each employee feels like their voice matters just as much as company leaders, and there's definitely some truth to this thought process, but what if even though employs claim to want hierarchies eliminated and to feel like their opinions and direction and responsibilities of equal shared accompany leaders. They inherently want the structure and reliability and lack of confusion that comes from the org chart, so what are the real practical differences between these two structures? Well in a hierarchy you rarely if ever get to pick your boss, your co workers, the projects you work onto the team's your part of in a flattened organization. Nobody owns space so employees get to focus their efforts wherever their passions lie. They can move on. And off teams periodically have several different streams of responsibility throughout the year. If high engagement is the goal score one point for the flat organization. Let's go further in a hierarchical organization processes and solutions come from the top enter deployed down, whereas in a flattened organization processes and solutions are created by whomever will be expected to execute them scoring other point for the flattened organization and higher. Organization. Innovation is a job of resident experts while on a flattened organization innovations the job of everyone a person's lack of tenure experience doesn't mean they're opinions or discounted after all sometimes you get too close to a problem. You're unable to see the best solution to it score third point for the flat organization. So on paper things seem to be pretty one-sided. That's why back in two thousand thirteen Zappa started their hypocrisy platform, which literally eliminated hierarchies, no more managers titles, and no more subordinates. I was fortunate enough to go through their onsite culture training, right as they were implementing hypocrisy, and they made it sound pretty amazing two years into the experiment. However, their annual turnover started to rise. So what gives Zappa's has been known for years having incredible culture in very low turnover. They seem like the perfect company to test this level of leadership if it can't work there, can it really work anywhere. Do we just want to believe employees desire these things over my years of work on making the employee experience? Better. I've learned that almost everything related to leadership culture engagement lives in shades of gray hierarchies are necessary for holding people. Countable? They're necessary for defining job responsibilities. They give competitive employees career goals as they hope to move up within an organization, and the Stanford graduate school of business even conducted a survey that shows employees often prefer hierarchies, but hierarchies are also breeding ground for the ludicrous notion that you can look in an org chart to see where the talent and the knowledge and the skills lie. Hierarchies hinder meaningful relationships because they make it virtually impossible to allow employees to pick their teammates hierarchy don't tell you who is smarter who can solve problems who can create process and who can innovate. But for some reason, we think they do or maybe we know deep down. They don't tell us those things, but it's just so much easier to assign responsibilities based on position because its objective in it allows us to avoid making tough leadership decisions after all you don't really have to explain your decision to assign the responsibility of creating a brand new process to someone several levels up on an org chart, and you can very easily hold them accountable. It goes wrong. But if you assign it to a person at the bottom of the org chart a person who will ultimately have to execute that process upon its completion. You'll inevitably end up rubbing people the wrong way people higher up on that org. Chart who believe it's? Position that entitles them to that responsibility. You also have to own some of that feel yourself if it goes wrong since you're the leader who assigned the task. But here's the thing. That's okay. Because this is the process that leads employees to a feeling of significance. This is the process that makes employees feel connected to the mission of the organization not by being told. They no longer have a boss and can decide how they want to contribute by being told their boss has confidence in them to stab at something. They will ultimately be responsible for executing. Anyway, there are countless middle managers in the workforce who define their contribution everyday. How many emails they sent? They essentially move information from point A their boss to point B, the direct reports. These are the hierarchies that have no place in a modern workforce. Where access to information is on demand and transparency is rewarded anyway, but that doesn't mean all hierarchy should be eliminated. It means great leaders should be expected to mix subjectively ship decisions absent a hierarchy grounded in values, and then be able to speak to those decisions and back them up. It means hierarchy should be viewed as one tool among many that leaders can use to guide their decision making process and the only way that can happen. Is to the daily exercising of this practice leaders who ground their decision. A chain of command lose any credibility. They have to make subjective decisions. They give up their authority to lead the leaders who ground their decisions in values values. They never hesitate to share with anyone who will listen will become reliably predictable to their people and their people will start to operate in the spirit of those values rather than the spirit of the org chart. Thanks for listening and we'll see on Monday.
How to pivot your business when crisis strikes | Ep. 148
"We all need to be approachable and I think it goes back to something I learned a long. Long time ago we can't fix something if you don't know. Welcome to another episode of the Roi podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley School of business. I'm your host Matt Martel here on the show our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions so whether you're a small business leader looking to rebuild in this time of. Economic growth whether you're an organizational leader who would love to get some hold of our faculty and just run some ideas past them or you know of an individual who make a great guest for our show, send us an e mail to our oh ipod. That's Roi Peo- deep at. Dot Edu. Well, it's no surprise. A lot of small businesses are really hurting and having to try to turn things around and get creative in order to find unique revenue streams so that they can get back to where they were before Cova nineteen broke out and here in Indianapolis, we found an organization whose revenue artery was totally severed by covid nineteen and yet was able to find a way to pivot in order to stay afloat. Today I'm joined by the president of Piazza Produce Marcus aggressor who's also an up y Kelley School of business, alum. Marcus just WANNA welcome to the PODCAST. Thank you. Thanks for having me Seles step back. You know first off, you run an organization that it major. It's a major food service distribution company here in Indianapolis you know who's lifeblood has been restaurants i. mean is restaurants and in the wake of Covid nineteen when restaurants were one of the first businesses totally shut down I mean that's your main revenue. So kind of talk us through you know what happened at the start when Cova was just coming in, you know I think a lot of people you know we really didn't have a plan for it. I think in a lot of situations we have a plan for if our server goes down, you Emma generator the generator. Test itself every Monday. We have a plan for what happens if tornado hit or something you know so we have all these plans in place. we never had a Kobe plan. in so you know I I clearly remember the Friday always leads was in the office and. A friend of mine works at school my kids attend and he says Amen they're gonNA they're gonNA shut down school. Until spring break melt away you know get out of here is serious man. You're. Not. GonNa show it down. So the first thing I thought about was we do a lot of schools we do a lot of restaurants, but we also do a lot of schools we do a lot of hospitals. Basically sell anybody doing food service. So the first thing I thought man that's Kinda stinks for us. You know schools are a big part of our business and you know we're going to lose that revenue stream and. But you know if it's only a couple of weeks till spring break ins back not that big a deal. Council the first thing that they roy started. Thank about in our business. Is. We are in the most highly perishable space. There is no one say. A pepper is paid or tomatoes take the clock starts you know and it starts to deteriorate. So we'll what are we going to do all the stuff you know what are we gonna do the stuff we have? In House what do we do stuff is on its way. You're getting things from. East Coast West Coast. Canada Mexico. You place those orders on a Sunday To Guillaume here like week in the next weekend. So we can stop the stubbed them. It's common. So we're born into saint. Patrick's Day. We're going into the NC double A.. We all of these things coming. And it was GONNA be a couple of weeks. So it's just like holy cow, you know we. We do all stuff. So, you'll get with our procurement team we stopped. Everything that we could stop in time which you know you feel really bad about that because you've got longtime vendors even find stuff wrong for years and years and years and. You know panted truly. Starts hitting you with that all these range of emotions bad for them. But you have to do it. So we have those conversations managing the inventory i. mean we manage the inventory every single day I would say we still are we always have. But diligently laser focused on him Tori is we don't sell it. You're going to smell it. That's saying in our business so. We got A. Sales team and. I still remember. You know it was kind of basically. Let's get creative new ideas dumb. Just think think think think about any way in every way that we can, and before we get into, you know the plan I wanna I, WanNa go back a little bit and get back to that that. Friday. When you all Kinda sort saying this unfolding and you're you're starting to get word and you're starting to see restaurants beginning to shut their doors and you have all this inventory come in because I think for me like it didn't realize you kind of forget that Oh. Yeah. Saint. Patrick's Day. You know the NC double A. Tournament's posing to be here in the thousands hundreds of thousands of people that you know those those bring. But. Only for you, you know as an organizational leader you had you were kind of faced with an option i. mean you were able to you either have the option of you know you just kind of. Just freeze in fear or just get really emotional or you kind of have to process it. You know process the information coming in and make decisions, and so talk about in those moments. What inside of you were you relying on and you know what we're some of those principles that you were having to really rely on in order to not let the emotions of. Fear of the future start to dictate your actions. That's a great question I think. The answer is call. Guess take all those around you usually GonNa take on your demeanor, your your composure. You know I think to just run around and you know freak out and panic. It's just going to listen panic throughout the organization. If you have that and you can't do those other things we talked about Mungo can't clearly just trying to make sure that we kept calm. You know keeping each other call. In. Saying things like get through this. We'll have other. Churkin, we have no other choice. You know we've in business since nineteen seventy in we've come waiting for. To not come out of this so you know just being calm and reassuring sometimes. You you. You say to be calm in your. One hundred miles never inside your own body but but I think that helps me to stay on as well. So and staying calm I say it'd be sure one of the core principles. So let me ask you know with you know putting yourself back into the early onset when all this was starting to become real and it you know it was starting to impact your business, not just your business because when impacts your business, it's also impacting the people. You care about the people who you know you're employing people relying on you to you know to feed their families as well me because you're all in it together I mean I know you guys are family there and every organization builds that family you know. But when people are relying on you kind of when they're saying, Hey, you know what we what do we need to do? How do you keep yourself calm you know and what what tactics were you using? For yourself so that you know you could walk into a meeting and you can speak truth, but you can also do it in a calm calm demeanor like you said so that the the organization didn't just kind of you know erupt in fear. Probably learners until maybe the last several years is you know speak from your. Guest speak from your heart usually that gets you where you need to go. Get Your Gut, your mind, and your heart. So. You gotta you gotTa be speaking with your order in these times. You know we have a really good executive team of the fresh little and we would have. Calls. We had goes daily beginning and we had a call Sunday after that Friday that you know. That was how important we knew then we to get on his thing so. Having that sense of urgency to. Really start to communicate lean on each other in. We talked a lot about you know the furlough process oil process and was devan everybody So we had a we had a point where we talked about how you can help how far. We have to go into the organization. To Survive we decided that wouldn't be better if we all everybody. took. A pay cut. Desire Vice. Not Having to have some people go that came from the heart you know. So. So I think that's that's important now and again I mean that's a very real conversation having a lot of organizational years forget about because you know I think for a lot of individuals myself included you wanna you see places of leadership I wanNA spire to be in that in that seat because I love the influence I. Love How they develop people. I love how you can create and build a culture and you have more you know you have more opportunity to really enrich people. But at the same time, there is a there is a a negative. Side to it I guess if you want to say her, there's a there's a hard side to it where you know when chaos hits your kind of you have to have some of these conversations and you know you re which which are really sobering. So how do you as organizational leader? You know that's an amazing idea of coming in and saying you know, Yep. We're GONNA cut do what every other business does. You know go this is how far deeper going to go and then everything else you kind of more about the idea of this whole sacrifice. Of A group sacrifice in how do you get your team to buy into that but I think it stores was that we we have our own culture. In our organizations and it has it has a lot to do with we genuinely care about each. Baker about us we care about them. In in that can mean either. that can mean a you. Might be a personal matter. That is why by Song I think just being approachable. We all need to be approachable and I think it goes back to something I learned a lot and other thing I'm going to long time ago you can't fix something if you don't know it's very it's a very powerful thing to give somebody permission with that so. Learning in a customer scenario. So used at one time. Where the drew. A co-op. Of Schools. And we just got him We've worked on trying to get it for a long time. Can. Finally. Show. Them that are Brownish as company service quality was worth the price in a specific member used saying. Hey and if you have a problem if you don't tell us about it, we can't do anything about it. And I remember months go by and. In delivery time issue that we just kept. screwing up screwing up and she's arcus hate the bother you. But you said that you know tell you about some you can't fix it until about I said. Don't hesitate. I mean I want to know right and I think a lot of people think that they're batard again you know it's not you're not bothering me. You know I wanted to when we screw up. But what are you GonNa do we did fix it? So I think when you give people permission to. Tell you that you're doing a bad job man edges that just does a lot for you. So I know we're talking about culture but. It's the same thing with with your people. I don't know what's going on your head I don't know if. You're mad because Betty lose get a parking spot and you don't you know. Tell me. So I think that's Giving people permission to. Have those conversations and be approachable is another thing that really hope to have a good culture. So we've had a culture so moving through this We know we had trust each other we knew we had to have. Conversations and. That wasn't something that we were not used. We used to that. So I, think you know what you're saying really set the the foundation for how you guys were able to survive I mean it sounds like you had a lot of these values instilled within your culture before you know this pandemic hit I love it I. Love. You know what you were talking about that in your executive meeting you know you were sitting in an executive meeting and you guys were at the you know where you were all talking about, how can we manage this storm and not lay anyone off I mean I think you know you embracing that ide- ideology. You brought your teams in in your, you know your those underneath you in I think that. Is Embodiment of your values because it's so easy for you as an organizational leader to sit in that meeting and say, let's got pass blame on this team and this person so and so and you could totally miss you know the the idea of maybe we can all sacrifice together. So getting using kind of like the framework in the culture of of you know this open door policy and you know opening up of ideas and you know you can't fix things. You don't know about what options were presented to find a revenue stream to kind of help supplement, win all these restaurants, schools, and. Hospital demand all the demand, his completely dropped. You know talk us through what that was and how you guys got to that idea. I think the first thing we thought about was okay. People are gonNA still need to eat ride doesn't I? Think he started thinking about all right let's good right. So but they're just going somewhere else right not going to restaurants they're going to school. So. How can we position ourselves with the product that we have that we need to to sell now before goes bad in order to mitigate our potential losses. The one thing that we can surely knew it'd be perfect s communication we communicate. So Casa, communication with our other companies, other divisions on you know what it is we can do to it products in those retail and Other. Business Unit. So The second thing that we did was we thought about. The public rights how can we get this stuff? The bullet? So we immediately when I say immediately, we talked about pivoting by. That week. We had the use social media and all the other avenues to tell the public to come here we have for sale. So. The the response from the community was. Overwhelming. So that was kind of fire sell situation where you know we were just trying to get any kind of money out of whatever we had. You know even if it was selling laws because. I losses our best laws right what grew out of that was okay. We got right on the inventory that we could and then we donated. A, lot of product differ organizations around the city as well thrown in the trash, and then it was like people were saying, Hey, we were lucky stuff. So then we started we'll markets you know. So we Kinda hub-and-spoke of a truck, take your prayers they come pick the stuff up and by the way whether they're. Cherries season and we're trying to. Some have some of those items of. The response has been really good. People are liking the fact that they can get. Great Quality Product I. think that's an amazing thing I mean because here is almost like an act of desperation just really trying to take the least amount of losses, possible and embracing. Creativity of all, right well, we gotta sell it somehow you know it's amazing how this act of desperation now has kind of opened up You know a new demand or maybe a demand that's always been there but maybe just wouldn't have discovered if you weren't kind of forced into some of these decisions to have to pivot and just try to sell because I mean especially yeah I totally get. It for for an organization that deals in produce in time sensitive materials you very you have a very limited shelf life and you can lose a lot of money. You know really quick sensitive kind of forced into you know having to sell the way you did talk about now how that created a an improved I guess or hot did that Change Your Business model going forward yeah I. Mean I think it Validates what we do we've never really worked directly the polling. So they can be a tough crowd and you know rightfully so they're spending their hard earned money and the when they validate. That you got great quality and serviceman that really feels good. You know that really makes you be proud of the relationships that you have with your vendors. And we'll see if the if that market stays yet or is it going to go away or people? You know. Just. Kinda. Go, to restore instead of. Making a trip to the. Global, market or whatnot. So we hope not to. It'll be interesting to see what happens in. Finally as we begin to wrap things up You know you're saying before we started recording I love the quote that you said, you, said, you saw a quote online saint something along at the effect of the wrong decision is no decision and I, think that's so true especially when you're the whole, you know economic crisis just kind of of nowhere and there's so much happening at once you having to make so many decisions. Or your face with so many emotions all at once because you know you're you're weighing the the business, you're weighing the people that work in your business you're weighing you know your family knew all these things are coming in what would you say to an organizational leader who may still be wrestling with? They're not certain what to do or they're they're kind of stuck in this mindset that they feel like they can't get out of what what would organization leader need to do Or what advice would you give them to have that permission to adapt and be creative and try new things especially in this tough time? Well I mean it's it's kind of a trait statement but I think some I mean maybe sometimes. Is, said, you don't do it. You know we talked to a lot of our executive calls about. Don't be afraid right now to try something new and if we feel it's okay. We gotta try you know you got to have the permission of failed to, and maybe that's you'll give your people are mission to fail in have their. back. So speak that when they do, you don't serve on ha ha you meant you know what I would like. It's all right. Let's you know I think we're halfway there. Let's let's just tweets a little bit and the other thing I think is is very important and I'm learned this from my father. Keep Yasim. It's interesting because. This kind exists route all of organizations in its as part of our value proposition. You know in the service bucket. In that Sense of urgency having a true sense of urgency in not so urgent. You know wreck the car speak. In these times right now especially now that we're trying to come back in there. Some voids. where? Some products unavailable because grower stop growing or producers stop producing. While, I'm going to guarantee you one thing. Most of these restaurants aren't going to change their menus because we are out of something. So if we don't have lettuce US tonight four restaurant eggs. You think are gonNA, take it off their menu. What do you think they're gonNA they're gonNa go find it somewhere else. That's exactly right. So S Italian. We talk about all the time constantly trying to remind everyone. Is that put your have some empathy? Put yourself in your customer's shoes so that when we wake up tomorrow morning and we ran out of lettuce or we didn't have a certain product called a customer be proactive and say hey. What are you? What are we going to do and they may say aca wait till tomorrow or you can sub something or I gotTa have that in by God figure out where we're GONNA get because they're not going to change your. So. Let's set since. Speaking again marcus aggressive. President of Piazza produce a major food service distributor here in Indianapolis. Who's also an IEP Y Kelley School of Business Lamarcus. For being our guest here on the show. Thank you for she wanted. This is been another episode of the Roi podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley School of Business I'm your host Matt Martel Year on the show our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions will see next week.
Part Two: How are brilliant careers made and unmade? | Ep. 141
"People don't always want to give you feedback, so if you open the little betta volmer ability, the other party is going to realize that you're genuinely interested in hearing the truth. If you do that on a regular cadence, you're going to be more self aware than most people. Welcome to another episode of the Roi podcasts presented by the Indiana. University Kelley School of business I'm your host. Matt Martel joined by the Dean of the Kelley School of Business Eighty Kezner here on the show. Our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions. So this is your first time tuning in. We just want to welcome you to the Kelly family and remind you and let you know we exist for you, so if you have a question wrestling with as a leader, you're having to make some tough decisions here in the future. We'd love to help. Send us an email to Roi POB. PD. Dot Edu well last week. We started a conversation about your career. And what are some of these derailments that that come into play that you know we? We have all the talent. We have everything we think we need to be successful or we see people that are on our teams. Who had everything? We're rooting for him? But yet you know at some point. They just kind of derail in so. So this week we want to kind of turn the page a little bit, and get away from all the the negative and the criticism, because that's so easy to get so caught up as we started talking about last week where you can get so critical of yourself as a leader where all of a sudden you just feel like you're the worst person in the world. And what's the point of? Of even trying so on this week's episode, we're bringing back. Carter cast is the author of the right and wrong stuff. How brilliant careers are made and unmade? His also professor at Northwestern University's Kellogg School of Management Carter Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you. It's good to be here so last week we started a conversation about these five archetypes that you talked about that. A lot of individuals as As who a lot of talent you know, work their way to their career and just suddenly derail plateau. Get let go I. Mean Even You yourself early on in your look, you talk about your story of how people get derailed so just as a quick recap. Let's go through the five archetypes, and what are they? The first archetype is the most common reason for derailment Matt it is. People that suffer from an interpersonal issue and relational troubles, and they don't work well with groups and they end up. It ends up hurting their career that I call I by the crew, these five archetypes for each one of these till sort of lighten it and not make the topic so severe, so that I urge net interpersonal issue I call captain fantastic. And Not surprisingly it afflicts men more than women. The second derail is called the Solo Flyer. This is somebody who's very capable gets promoted and then keeps trying to do the work herself. This driller SKEWS A. Little female in gender. Early in the career, when someone starts managing people and they don't know how to teach them to fit. Teach them defense. They try to fish for them. Third driller is someone that has difficulty adapting to change. Changing circumstances changing technologies a new boss, a new org structure, and this is version one point Oh. This often happens mid-career when we get complacent and our jobs. She Goddess Thank Julius. You gotTA keep. Pushing yourself to learn. The fourth rail or is somebody who is too narrow. Shot up the organization in a linear fashion. They haven't taken any lateral moves. And the end up derailing because they're, they're pigeonholed as being an expert in one particular area, and they don't have enough ret at Lenny adapt. This person is the one trick pony. The last director is be one of the most prevalent ones, and it is called the whirling dervish that derail or is someone who doesn't deliver on their promises, because they say yes to too many things, and they don't have good organizational and prioritization skills. So so Carter, one of the things that comes across in the book is that you really have to be self aware in order to avoid some of these key pitfalls. and. You have amazing. This astonishing statistic based on research in the book and you tell us the individuals who have an inflated sense of their skill level, or an underestimate their interpersonal issues are more than six times six times likelier to derail the knows who have an accurate understanding of their skills and interpersonal issues. What are the positive things you can recommend that people should do in order to have a very clear self awareness to avoid career pitfalls. Thank you and that statistic that you cited it was the most jarring statistic in all the research I did. That if you underestimate the inner, your interpersonal issues or overestimate your skill level, your chances of derailing are six times. Raider Nat comes right out of Korn ferry's quantitative research, so it is a really good source. So, what do you need to do you? You hit the nail on the head. It's all about self awareness. How can I become more self aware? Both to my strengths, so I can foster them even more and my areas of owner ability so I can reduce the impact. They have on my career. So. How do you gain that self awareness? One of them is to start off with acceptance. We're all human. We all have strengths, and we all have weaknesses everybody so just get right to get comfortable realizing you're not going to be perfect and when you hear criticism. Turn it into a learning moment. Did you read you know Carol and her research on growth mindset versus a fixed mindset? You wrote a book called Mindset it nodding her head I interviewed her several times when I was writing the book. And Carol just talks about people with the growth mindset when something bad happens to them, they really they're able to re interpret it. As a learning moment that's going to make them better. Versus an indictment of their personality or of their skills. They're able to just recast the event so that. I start with mindset. Have a mindset when you get clobbered on something, say good. I learned something I'm not GonNa do that again. secondly be one of these people that there's always seeking feedback. And a lot of times people don't you, Matt? You said this earlier in the last podcast. People don't always want to give you feedback so a lot of times. People are like afraid to so what I do is. I opened when I asked for feedback with something. I didn't do well I'll say. How do you think the podcast went I? Think I was a little bit slow in the opening, but I and I didn't get momentum right away. What did you see? So, if you open with a little bit of vulnerability, the other party is going to realize that you're genuinely interested in hearing the truth. And when you get that feedback, if you ask for it on a regular basis, right after something happens right after a big presentation. Right after you turn, the report asked for feedback. If you do that on a regular cadence, you're going to be more self aware than most people sitting last week. We were I love how we ended the podcast where you were talking about how you know when you're coaching. People you bring people in, and you want to give you know two things to work on, but also to of. Of their strength, because you don't like for me personally, I'm an individual. If I'm constantly self critical and I think so much about the things I need to work on I get overwhelmed and I potentially just shut down and say you know what forget it. There's just too much to work on on the no good employees. No good leader I just need to stop and I. Think a lot of leaders that is a common trait where you can get so overwhelmed when he become so critical of everything you do. Talk about these these reasons that people who are successful because last week talked about five archetypes of people when they get derailed, but in your book later on to Kinda contrast, you also talk about all right. What are the three things? People do or characteristic traits that they have that. Make them very successful and keep them on the rails or keep them on track toward career growth. So this was really fun part of the book. I went to turn the book in, and it was only about the wrong stuff. And Hash at book. Group has shut said look. We will publish your book if I was like Oh here comes the half. If you would also look at the right stuff and not just the wrong stuff. Because we want the book to be balanced and not just a big downer. And so I laughed took by took my feedback, and went out there another year, and looked and interviewed people and found out by mining and mining hundreds and hundreds of three sixties I found that people that are in the top ten percent in their companies. Ineffectiveness, people the rated at the top. They had insistently three. Competencies, so here's what they are. The first is. The had to -bility to bring others with them. They were good listener i. They were empathetic. They were people wanted to get in their boat? People wanted to work on their projects because they were known as being fair. Empathetic. And people that were givers. So Adam Grant wrote a book. Give and take. And in the book he talks about givers sometimes. Don't get ahead right away. Sometimes, the takers get ahead right away, but in the end ever getters get ahead because people want to work with Uber's. So the first thing is they're good at enlisting others. And they're good at it because they're fair in their opened in their compassionate. So? They're able to list others to their cause second trait. Not Surprising. They had tremendous perseverance. So angelie Duckworth wrote. A book called Grit. Great Book. And he talks about the characteristics of Grit, and the importance, especially, when you're growing up in your young in having persistence in these people when you interviewed people that were in the top ten percent, they'd say stuff like this well. I told them I get that spreadsheet by Friday. So I stayed there until ten PM on Friday. They didn't turn it in Monday morning. You Know Oh. Friday, Monday! Who Cares Bay, said Friday, so they stayed till they got the damn thing. So that sort of persistence is the second trait. Third. Is My favorite. It's people that have. Tremendous learning agility. They are curious and they are very interested in. Increasing their understanding of themselves of the world that they live in, and here's an interesting one. There known to be people. That pick up those areas in the project that nobody wants to do. You know your merchandizing, somebody else's and marketing in their stuff that falls into cracks between the the people that take those things all the cracks and they own them. Nobody asks them to do it. But they're the people that bridge the gaps between functions sales ops. Whatever it is, there's always stuff that falls between the cracks. These high potential high-potential high-performers seed those things and take the initiative to do it. Those are some great strengths that people have you know one thing that was interesting in the book Carter. Is You talk about practicing the flip side of your strengths and I'm wondering if you can elaborate on how your strengths in overdrive can actually become weaknesses, and how you ensure that that doesn't happen, it's it sounds like it's A. It's an area of balance. It's really important. So what do you mean by practicing the flip side of your strikes? That's really interesting in the research. I found that. Many times people derail because they have an overused strength. The becomes the weakness. So somebody WHO's analytical tries to analyse everything even so it's not not be analyzed effectively. Somebody who's a good team player is indecisive can't call the ball. Somebody. That's innovative wastes sources in trying to innovate everywhere. You get the point. Your strength is taken too far too becomes. It's overused so I found this really simple. Interesting tool called off men's four quadrant analysis, O. F. M. A., N.. Men's quadrant analysis is very simple tool to help you. In the first step. You. Take one of your towering drinks and write it down. So maybe in the case I said. You're super analytical. You can make up at the table smoke. Second step you take that towering strength. Analytical and you say. Can Anything happen where over apply this? And I think of any circumstances where I over apply my analytical prowess, and you write it down well, sometimes I waste time because I'm trying to analyze everything and I vacillate, and I don't make a decision. Yet step two step three is what is the remedy? For step two. So when you overplay it, step three is what is the corrective action you should take and so for example I over analyze everything step three. Is You know what I should do in the future? I should decide up front. What needs to be analyzed? And stick to those things and not go down a rat hole. Step four is. When you don't follow step three. How do you rationalize it? When you don't follow the remedy. What's your justification? Is We. Loved Germans love to justify bad behavior, and so in this case of Mr Analysis. Maybe at some. I'm afraid that if I don't show my analytical skills, people think I'm a fuzzy poet. So I went through this on one of my derailment areas, and it was hilarious how I justified. In my case I, haven't exuberance a very. Big Personality. And I looked at the downside of my big personality and I looked at how I. Try to justify it well. If I don't have this big personality, people are going to think I'm not committed. That's not true that just be justifying. Behaving the way I like to behave, so that's the Ford has scored water analysis towering strength. Wears it over applied. What's the remedy and when you ignore the remedy? What your justification? As! We start thinking about individuals who maybe aren't necessarily in management yet, but they have is on the love. They WANNA get in places of leadership within the organization on their team. You know and there may maybe just fresh in their career and trying to work you know. How do you with some of these traits of success? You know bringing people with you perseverance his ability to learn. How do you? Im-. Embrace these principles, a manager who does not have the quote, unquote title or the you know blessing from the higher ups yet. How do they bring people with them I mean. How do you bring people with you in your journey? How do you persevere? You know when you may feel like the low person on the totem pole. And how do you continue to? To want to learn especially if you're fresh out of school, and you're kind of burnt out from four years six years. However long, it took you to get to this place of being done with school job. One Matt what I tell the NBA's that are leaving, Kellogg job one is you have to become skilled in an area so that there's demand for your skills. So job one is. Whatever you choose to do. Figure out what the skillset is that you need to build and then write down your current skills right down the skillset you need to build and look for the areas that are the gaps and start chipping away at. Bridging the gaps gay, that's job. One job. One is get to be competent in your job. Because then Nice, then good things can happen. Second. I think you need to align with your key constituencies at work. FIGURE OUT! Who are they important people in your ecosystem at work. Take to lunch. Go grab grab coffee. And when you go, grab coffee, ask them. How can I help you? Is there anything I can do in my role to help you? What are your key goals for the quarter? Are there any? Is there anything I can do to help you achieve your goals and that person's going to go. Wow Map! Matt is a really. Team player Nice Guy, I wanNA help. So if you're ecosystem of constituents, if that ecosystem is strong, all the boats rise with the rising tide. So Carter. PODCAST I. I mentioned one of the surprising statistics about people being six times likelier to derail. The here's another surprising statistic in the book, You cited a study that showed out of sixty seven job competencies, developing others was dead last in terms of the skills, managers have and motivating others was actually fifty ninth out of sixty seven skills or job competencies rather. Now in light of that I, guess I'm wondering is the onus for addressing the competencies. Is that on the individual executive? Or is it the organization? Or maybe it's both, could you? We're? Where is the responsibility I? That's another really great statistic teased out of the book. It was jaw dropping. The the lowest rated management competency at sixty seven competencies from Lahmeyer. That's the group that did it was developing others basically when I when I teach this off this material at school, I kinda get I. Get dramatic and I. Say it's a DIY career. It is diy life. The year, the days of IBM giving you lifetime, employment or done. The days you can count on. That CPG company to take charge of your development are over. I was I'm in my mid fifties. They started disappearing right as I was in my thirties in the eighties and nineties. Because of that, you've got to take control of your own career because you can't assume your boss has your as your back and you can't assume there's a development plan by your organization. Does that sound jaded? I hope not I hope it sounds realistic. You've gotTa take control of your career. What does that mean means? You gotta find mentors. You've gotTA. Find People. That you can count on to give you sage, advice and help bring you along with them. How do you do that the best way you don't walk up to somebody and said? Would you be my mentor? You just say I really loved your study. You wrote on this. Can I ask you about it? And then people love talking about themselves, so they chat with you about it and afterwards. You say hey, this was really useful. Maybe some other time. Can we meet? No probably say sure. You wait three weeks a month. You ask him out for another cup of coffee, and you start developing a relationship with them. So you reach out to people. And you start finding constituency network of friends and mentors to help you. Next Find The extracurriculars you can do. That will be a differentiator for yourself at work. Maybe you'RE GONNA. The United Way Campaign for your department. Maybe, you're going to run recruiting with to Indiana at the Kelley School. You'RE GONNA. Head up recruiting. Whatever it is, find somewhere. You can contribute. That's outside the scope of your job. That will give you visibility with senior management. Then another thing I think is look for opportunities to take lateral moves. To deepen your breadth of understanding of the different departments at your company so after you've become a good functional expert in your area. When there's an opportunity to take a lateral move I would consider it. I took too big lateral moves in my career. One sales or I was average. And then one and merchandising, and both of those lateral moves alchemy gain the skills to become CEO. As we tied together the three reasons for success in the three keys and characteristics, people have and the five archetypes. Now I've noticed that you have this mathematical equation you know of of the right stuff where you say job skills plus industry, knowledge plus operational ability multiplied by the three distinctive strengths over the derail ours. Break that down in. How does that become part of having the right stuff? Stuff, yes, so it's interesting. Did you notice the multiplier was those three skills? We talked about bringing others along with you. Perseverance and curiosity and learning agility. There's a multiplier. Those things are so important when you notice the divisor right, young people say to me. Are you saying that you shouldn't focus on your strengths? The whole strengths movements Baloney I say OH, goodness! No straight movements is wonderful. But There's nothing like a big hairy, derail or to sweep you at the knees. So. Of course you want to focus on your strengths, but there we all usually have a debilitating derail or that if we can neutralize it, it doesn't mean we have to get good in that area. If we can just neutralize it, it'll allow those strengths to shine, so that's why it's divided in that formula you read, it's divided by the drillers. We have to be aware of our big driller, so it will allow our strengths to shine and won't take away from them, and even when the other the other. Equations, You have the other variables you have job skills, industry, knowledge and operationability define those. And then how do those rope into that overall equation? These three core areas I think it's sort of the fundamentals. Job Skills. Do you know how to do the mechanics of your job. If you're a marketing manager. Do you know how to do pricing? Do you understand how to do segmentation analysis of the market? Do, you know how to manage an advertising agency. You know whatever it is. Can you do the functional skills required of your job? That is job one. Industry Knowledge. I. I'm a proponent. Of A. Figuring out what industry you WanNa play in and staying in that industry, so you are really. A you understand the ecosystem you understand the network of suppliers and buyers and sellers, and you start getting a nose for the industry, a source intuitive sense of how the industry operates so that industry's savvy. Comes from not hopping around too much, so if you love natural food, stay natural food, if you like SAS operations software stick to SAS, if you like healthcare digital healthcare great, if you like ECOMMERCE, drunk consumer great whatever it is. Try to find the area that you love and then go deepen. and. The third area is operational ability. That is the art of getting things done. That is setting up and knocking him down. Its organizational skills, it's prioritization. It's making sure you're you manager network effectively like in my job Hatami Whiteboard that twelve people were critical to me being able to do my job well, and I actually I like a crm program of reaching out and making sure. I was staying close to those twelve people. A contact strategy Fred Merrill up in purchasing to this day, it was a budget and he was very smart and knew his area I made sure I went up to his cube and asked for help and ask for his advice on a regular basis because he was so critical for my ability to deliver on my initiatives. So. When you when you talk about these strengths that you're really going to hone and develop clearly those go into defining your personal brand. I'm wondering. How do you keep that personal brand relevant over the duration of your career over time? How do you make sure that you remain? Relevant as relevant as possible in terms of the brand new built for yourself. Why that is a million dollar question, you know it's interesting. Idee? There are some times that you need to do a face lift on the old personal brand. It will run well for a number of years, and then it starts getting frayed. It starts showing this threadbare. And I hit a wall. where? I could tell I needed to refresh. And that's when I pivoted into a new career in venture capital, so there are times and I. You know so, what is the moment where you figure? Maybe it's time for pivot I think the moment is. When you're learning curve is down. And your enthusiasm for your job is down. You realize it's time for you to try something different. For yourself now here's the trick I think I'd love your Indian on the city. I think you've gotTA. Make sure there's a good learn to leverage ratio. So that as you try something new, you're leveraging your existing skill set, and you bring along portion of your existing skill set in the new thing, so it's not completely greenfield. So when I went into venture capital. I've been doing e commerce for fourteen years. So I looked at deals as V, C e Commerce Space I so I could leverage my existing skillset. So I think when you're ready for a pivot. There's you've got to make a SM-. Mega smart pivot the brings along some of your existing skills. I think that's. Accurate you're going to have competencies you don't want to abandon those competencies, but stretching yourself and taking taking those competencies into new areas is a very smart way to pivot. So there's an interesting saying I. There's a Reed Hoffman the founder of of Lincoln. He said. In his book, the startup of you, he said A. B. Z think of ABC in terms of your brand crime management as what you're doing now. B.'s what you're doing going to do next. And Zia's your fallback if all hell breaks loose. I I would add something to reads. I would add ABC Z.. As what you're doing now the job you have now, B.'s what you're thinking of doing next. SEE is out there five years from now that you're GonNa try to start positioning yourself learning. Setting up your network to do and Menzies your fallback if all hell breaks loose like now so. My See. Ten years ago I wanted to be a teacher. And I started trying to set up my life to be able to pivot there so I got to know a lot of the Kellogg professors. They offered to let me CO teach a couple of times, so I started getting to be seen at the school so I was. To be able to make the pivot into there and I with the dean of Kellogg. Twelve years before ended up. Do going into teaching just to start the process so ABC. Sees. What's out there that you got to start thinking about? So Carter I just WANNA. Make a quick observation which I hope the listeners of the podcast are in tune with both in our last segment, and in this segment. You really site a lot of literature. You've read a lot of books you've you've got a lot of perspective from people, researchers and other executives, and that's really important. Because what it means is you're always in learning mode you're. Gathering information that's going to help you internalizing that information and using it and I think that has just demonstrated a very important point for executives need to keep that learning mode and keep stretching and and gathering information. That's going to help you throughout your career, so thank you for demonstrating that. No, thank you for that compliment I appreciate it and I think being an academics has really helped me. because. There's a lot of professors around that bottle. That behavior, so that helps reinforce it for me. Again Carter cast author of the right and wrong stuff. How brilliant careers are made and unmade? He's also professor at Northwestern University's Kellogg School of Management Carter. Thank you so much again for being our guest. This has been another. Of the ROI podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley School of Business I'm your host Matt Martel joined by the Dean of the Kelley School of Business Id Kezner here on the show, our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions. We'll see next week.
The 2020 Kelley School of Business Economic Forecast - LIVE! | Ep. 111
"Welcome to another episode of the Roi Podcast cast presented by the Indiana University. Kelley School of business. I'm your host Matt. Martel the mission for our show is simple. We want to help organizations make better business decisions so for all those who are joining us for the first time. I just want to welcome you to the Kelly family. If you have a question you're wrestling with if you'd like to get a hold of myself or Phil or anyone of our faculty or you know of someone that would make a great guests for our show since an email to Roi pod that's ROI APO DP at IEP y dot Edu so this episode is going to be a little different this week. We are doing a live taping of the twenty twenty any economic outlook forecast featuring a few our faculty members and some of the Indianapolis Chamber of commerce members who are going to give a projection of next years economic outlook so further ado. Here's Phil Powell. Welcome to the Indianapolis Outlook Panel for our annual. I annual business outlook panel. which is a long tradition here at the Kelley School and welcome? This is a great venue and we wanted to bring the campus here sort of showcase. I'll talk about a minute. Showcase sort of our new mich- are evolving mission here in the Indianapolis region and today. We're sort of experimenting with a slight change in the panel. You'RE GONNA get the forecasts or we're going to also talk about how the city and the Chamber of Commerce are tacking some of the more structural economic challenges here in the region and how that interacts with what we expect in two thousand twenty and how the Kelley School is contributed from that from different units on both campuses. For those of you. Who Don't know me? I'm associate dean of academic programs here now. Upi Campus Phil Powell Dean Kessler since her greetings from Bloomington also. Today this is a this is a this is a big big day for us. It turns off. I we're also taping today our Roi podcast so for those who may not know Kelly school puts out a weekly podcast rightly named the return on investment estimate the Roi podcast to give you a boost during the week about how to be more productive and more inspiring and more competitive and we've had over one hundred episodes launched so we're going to one of our episodes will be. We'll be this. We'll be this session in this forecast so check out the podcast and you can find that on the on the Kelli Kelli website. Also look behind me here. This is a big year for us. I you are is fifty years old. Indiana University is two hundred years old and the Kelley School is one hundred years old. How's that for convergence right so twenty twenty better be a good year better? Deliver run at forest panelists but in a year like this. There's a lot going on in the world and we're here to talk about that. We're here not only to paint the picture of what's ahead for the next year. But also some innovative ways that we're tackling those challenges here here in the region and at Indiana University. Three years ago our Dean I'd Kastner set forward a vision and a challenge the Kelley school community to make our presence here. Upi a little bit more visible take a leadership role in driving prosperity in the Indianapolis region. And we've been just west of downtown almost as long as it's been been around for fifty years and as Indianapolis takes off and faces. Challenges are the Kelly community has has really embraced this challenge and when it comes down to it our presence here. Py has two missions. We're here to to generate knowledge and more reportedly even more poorly graduate talents that makes Indianapolis companies globally competitive. And also just as equally. R- also here to broaden business opportunity and economically challenged communities in this region and so that is formed a new strategy and we're called it a front porch strategy. We're sort of replacing the ivory tower with our front porch to be more more engaged in the community be more of a partner with our state eight and local leaders with our institutions tell dry fourth prosperity and it really comes down to talent and economic mobility. And if you were to summarize is the vision that we're trying to implement here the Kelley School Ip y and also leveraging are great assets on the BLOOMINGTON. CAMPUS WE WANNA build talent pipeline lines that extend back into our economically challenged communities here in the region and as young as we can go and pull that talent forward into the industries are tradable industries that export goods and services to other industries in other countries and Kelly schools along with the Chamber and other other other other leading organizations. Here in Indianapolis is really working hard to bring that vision to bear. And you'll hear some of that today as we as we share the story of what we look at for twenty twenty this morning is the convergence of the work of some some folks that are really want to say thank you to the the Kelley School is a big community we serve twelve thousand students arguably maybe the largest business school in the nation. There's only a couple that can come close to serving serving twelve thousand on two campuses and the business alad panel is a long tradition. That is organized by our Indiana this research center and I WANNA thank Tim slipper and kill Rogers who are both co directors. Carolis the charge here in Indianapolis and Tim Down in Bloomington and sort of helping us to to organize the forecast and you'll have available on your table. Sort of the hard copy of the fourth of the forecast come together from the panel of faculty that have put these together. So I want to show up to the Indiana Business Research Center and they continue to be really the National Model for Business Research Center on on a college campus in a in a State University also the Kelley school alumni association hundred and seventeen thousand living. Lina Long Twenty. Seven thousand are here in Indianapolis and that amazing there's twenty seven thousand of us who graduated from the Kelley School and they're here to to roll their sleeves and help get the work done at the Kelley. School is leading so we want to thank gene goings and staff from the from the Alumni Association. Who who really organized this event this morning? Furthermore I wanNA thank our faculty and staff from The Kelley School Indianapolis campus. They truly have embraced embrace this this mission of driving prosperity of the region. And they're here today and have contributed to our panel also Ryan Ryan Brewer. A finance professor from I'm from Columbus Columbus Columbus wrote our Indiana forecast is helping formed. What you're going to hear this morning? So let's give all those folks a hand in the Kelley School family so without further ado. Let's get down to it and talk about twenty twenty. When I first heard somebody used the term the year two thousand twenty? That's like next year. Didn't like wake you up. I I grew up in the eighties. Eighty and by now we were supposed to be having this outlook panel and a space station. I can't believe we're still sitting on the ground but thank thank the good Lord for gravity and talk about gravity. Reality is certainly keeping close to the ground in terms of economic reality so today we have an esteemed panel of three colleagues here. We're GONNA hear a Professor Kyle Anderson I on on our on our forecast for for the US economy and what the next year we think holding store were professor. Anderson is a is chair of our evening. Mba Program and is involved in a lot of our outreach efforts. You've probably seen him in the media quite quite a bit. He's a fellow economist. Like myself next is a professor. Kathy Bonds Neil Professor Finance Professor Banzer. Neal's GONNA share a forecast for the global economy as we'll talk about. Indiana has one of the biggest relative to size state economy or one of the big sex borders in the country and a lot of that's driven by manufacturing and so the global economy. What's happening beyond our borders? especially as geopolitical cool relations relationships and and and trade wars assert themselves has an impact here and so professor. Nils going to going to give us that. That forecast Professor Banzer. Neil also served as as evening art our chair of our part time. Mba Program in campus and she helped lead lead our program redesign which we've just launched this fall and I'm very pleased to. After after professor Bosnia gives us the global forecast will pass it onto Ian Nicolini which were very proud to have on the panel and Nicolini is vice. The President of Economic Development at the Chamber the Kelley School's had the pleasure of working with Ian on multiple projects and Ian is actually actually teaches teaches for us in a associate faculty capacity here on campus here but previously in served as town manager at speedway radiant and Ian Works with the the Mayor Mayor's office and the Chamber and the whole business community on a number of great initiatives that are really changing the national conversation on how a region addresses economic challenges in an inclusive way and so easy going to give us a different perspective on what the region holds for twenty twenty that only from what economic forecasts perspective but more importantly what are we doing as a region to make ourselves competitive so without further ado. I'M GONNA hand it off to Professor Anderson to talk about the US economy economy. All right. Thanks and thanks for coming out this morning and not for the first time I have had to follow Phil and will will not be able to matches enthusiasm or is optimism in the outlook here but if we as we look at the data a year we go. We forecasted that the economy would improve twenty and nineteen and it turns out. We are probably overly optimistic. What we're seeing in two thousand nineteen relative five to twenty eight? Eighteen is actually a slowdown. We're projecting that twenty nine thousand nine. We'll finish out with about two percent growth. Which is worse than what twenty eighteen was? And it's really if you go back since the great recession we've averaged about two point. Three two point four percent growth in in the eleven year expansion that we've had since the great recession and to come in below that number is is certainly a little bit disappointing. But also it's what we're projecting out in twenty twenty that will have another year of slower growth so if we break that down y what what's really going on. GDP if you remember your macro courses kind of made up of of household consumption of investment of government spending hang of exports and what is driving the economy right now is household spending. It's up about three percent year over year the household sector jurors quite strong and it's probably being driven by a good labor market so that all sounds good what is dragging the economy back is business was just investment right now and residential investment as well are both flats in negative along with manufacturing. That is flat right now and and also potentially negative so we're seeing economic growth being driven in a in a very kind of unbalanced way so we've got household spending and government spending which are up but investment as is down quite a bit and investment. Numbers are really pretty troubling. Given that we're in a very low interest rate environment you would expect that with low interest rates. Businesses would have incentive is an high consumer spending but a lot of this probably tracks back to trade frictions that are going on in the market right now and a lot of policy uncertainty that is causing businesses to pull back quite a bit. NECSPORTS is also a negative on the economy. Me and so a lot of this has to do with the global outlook and Kathy's going to go into much more detail about that but we're feeling the impact of global economic weakness right now as I mentioned there's some clear bright spots in the economy. Were at what we'd consider full employment. Demint unemployment is at three point five percent to put that in perspective it goes down to three point four percent. We'd be at the lowest unemployment level since the post war boom of the nineteen fifties so our job market is really good right now. We're seeing moderate wage growth about two point eight percent. which is you know? Wage growth is kind of a good news. Bad News kind of thing we all want. Some wage growth will will help the economy and we all want higher paychecks on the the other hand as a business. Managers wage growth can drive inflation and you know exacerbate hiring challenges create issues with with profit margins and so we expect that growth will continue over the next year at a modest level looking to twenty twenty. We're forecasting sting two percent growth again for the coming year if anything. That may be optimistic if you look at kind kind of a broad set of forecast the average outlook we always liked to benchmark with other models. Average outlook is moral round. One point seven in one point eight percent now a couple of months ago we were looking very much like we might be going into recession twenty twenty and we've had some better data come in between since then so it's not a complete negative outlook but it's certainly not where we want to be and our forecast is always subject to zoo volatility subject to change but I think this year is especially Ashley so and the reasons for that are a couple as I mentioned. We've got this weird imbalance where households are spending a lot of businesses. Aren't investing very much. See that's not going to remain that way. One of two things going to happen right either. This business investment weakness is going to slow the economy and consumers will back and that's kind of the recession risk story going on or consumers I will continue. Spending businesses will will feel better about the economy. Maybe we get some positive trade news. And then business investment picks up and there's potential attention on the upside the other of course risk with all twenty twenty is a political risk Between trade uncertainty. I think the the election year is hardly something. That's going to bring a lot of confidence in people you know. We think about an uncertainty model. I think twenty twenty is right for you. Know political uncertainty that will lead to economic uncertainty. And then there's other besides political other international issues that will really either positively or negatively affect the economy so our outlook for twenty twenty is is not great. It's not a crash and burn recession story but it is slower growth than what we've I've seen over the last several years so with that I'll turn it over to Kathy and let her talk about the global outlook. Thanks Kyle and thanks to everyone for for being here. It's kind of funny when you go to bed and you have talked prepared. And then you wake up and things change so if you caught the news There has been some recent positive news on the trade end that perhaps an agreement will be reached to pull back on tariffs ribs that have been causing the slow growth contributing to the slow growth. That we've been seeing so I'd like to talk about little bit about what happened. Globally in two thousand nineteen nineteen and then look at the forecast for twenty twenty Keeping in mind what Kyle just said about the tremendous volatility and still uncertainty that. We're refacing so at the end of twenty nineteen by the end of twenty nineteen. The International Monetary Fund is forecasting that global growth will be only around three percent and to put that in context a year ago. This time when we were were looking ahead the forecast was is that global growth would be three point seven percent so we're down significantly from what we expected this time last year and this in fact is the slowest rate of global growth since the financial crisis ended in two thousand nine. So this down. Downgrade in in global growth isn't just I in the United States. It's everywhere it's in advanced economies as well as in emerging economies which traditionally have grown very quickly. They continue to grow faster than the US but they have advanced economies and developing economies outlook has been downgraded by about point six percentage rich points for twenty nineteen. That's that's significant so what's caused the slowdown in growth. Well trade tariffs and uncertainty the as Kyle mentioned not just here but globally has called caused a pullback in investment pullback in manufacturing which has significantly affected the outlook of growth in addition when you have trade tariffs imposed hitting it causes higher cost and that will also start to affect businesses as they're seeing those higher cost and as consumers are starting to see those cost cost passed along in to what they're now buying in addition when you have tariffs that causes disruptions in production and so as we see firms. I'm trying to figure out what where to move. Their supply chains given this uncertain terra environment. That can lead to a loss of efficiency and productivity and that could be weighing on twenty one thousand nine hundred and I think it's going to be a factor weighing on twenty twenty as well some other reasons that have contributed contributed to twenty one thousand nine hundred slowdown include a contraction in the auto sector this is partially the result of trade effects. But also things like like higher emission standards that are have been imposed in Europe and Reduc elimination of a tax break that China had which was encouraging a lot of auto sales in in that that country and then third marks market slowdown in China's economy itself so China was growing at six point six percent in two thousand eighteen. It's down to six point. Point one percent in two thousand nineteen so trade trade uncertainty downgrade and in China which is of course the second largest economy in the world and Factors affecting global production are contributing to the slow down. Well the good news is that the global economy is going to rebound a bit expectation by the International Monetary Fund. Is that is going to grow about three point. Four percent and that's been helped by accommodative. Monetary policies sees not just in the United States but in China in Europe in the UK and in Japan so central banks all over the world have lowered interest interest rates and pursued more accommodative monetary policies to help with this environment and that certainly has forestalled an even worse drop up in. Growth estimates are that growth might have been about point. Five percentage points lower without these interest rate cuts that we have been seeing however the source of this growth realized is skewed toward emerging market. So as we see a rebound in global growth advanced economies are still only going to grow about one point. Seven percent percent in two thousand eight hundred twenty. Most of the rebound is going to come from emerging markets. That's so and that's not going to happen. In China in in China growth is projected to continue to decrease below what some call a bellwether benchmark of six percent. So they're expected as you grow only about five point eight percent and that's a that's about a whole percentage point below where they have been in the last couple of years so slowdown in China is significant now some of that slowdown in China has been anticipated. And that's because of some demographic influences is the aging of the population as well as a shift in the structure of China's economy away from manufacturing toward more of a services based and away from focused on investment and exports to more consumption so this is consistent with a maturing of China's economy that Said said the decreasing growth has been accelerated by some of the trade tensions and tariffs that we've been seeing where else in the world. Well if we look at Europe Europe is flirting with recession. Some recent positive indicators suggest that some economies are are going to hopefully a- avoid that Germany is is seeing significant risks. Germany depends on exports for about fifty percent of its GDP Germany's a a large economy in the world and a major trading partner of the United States so Germany may not pull out of a recession indicators indicators are are not positive for that euro-zone as a whole we'll see what happens with brexit of course so what could happen between the EU and the UK could have well certainly have impacts on on Europe's growth but even so it's not expected to be that much higher than and then about a percent so Europe is going to be challenged. Of course Japan continues on its slow growth path. Unfortunately fortunately and it's not expected to grow much more than point five percents so barely above zero in twenty twenty. Now that's despite fight. The fact that both Europe and Japan have pursued negative interest-rate policies and very accommodative monetary policies. So you might ask well. Well how can it be that. A nominal interest rate is negative. What does that mean? Well it means you put your money in the bank and you pay to keep your money in the bank. What kind of deal? Well is that right. So you're paying to keep your money in the bank that does mean it's a lot cheaper to borrow so you might be asking well with negative interest rates. Why are we seeing a boom boom? In investment spending in Europe one thing to keep in mind is these negative interest rates are really reflecting dyer. And fairly anemic mkx growth in Europe and as we know businesses are not going to make an investment unless they expect a return. Well if if growth is expected to be anemic in Europe even negative interest rates. Won't help pull it out. So Europe is going to be challenged and I don't see that turning around in the next couple of years. I am closer to home. Canada and Mexico. Our largest trading partners have also seen a decrease in growth and they neither will be expected to grow more than in two percent even though Mexico is is more of an emerging economy. I usually sees faster growth but a combination of domestic new domestic policies. He's as well as the trade tensions. Mexico also depends about forty percent of its GDP on exports so very export-dependent very challenged in this environment. So one of the economies that will be a success story. I predict this is India as we look at the bricks six Brazil Russia India China South Africa Brazil. Russia South Africa are seeing growth rates below two percent percent for two thousand twenty China's. I said just under six percent India on the other hand is expected to rebound from about little over six percent sent back to about seven percent in twenty twenty so India's a significant economy growing and that that is probably going to be the bright right spot so as we know again. Indiana is dependent on this global environment. As we've seen this global environment growth decrease and we're not in recession but significant decreasing growth some rebound hopefully in twenty twenty. That looks it's positive but still there's some caution lights ahead for Indiana's economy which is very heavy heavily dependent on manufacturing and so I'm going to turn it over to the end to talk more about some of those impacts. Thanks Kathy and good morning everyone So we punch well above our weight class as a region when it comes to advanced industries about twelve percent of our economy comes from those traded sector advanced industry Type of jobs if you compare that to other midwestern major cities that number's closer to eight. So when you hear when you hear Cathy in and you hear Kyle talking about Some of the challenges that we face it creates impetus for policies policies. That focus on building a more resilient economy in the indie region But before I talk about some of that I want to start with some of the. The major strategic focuses economic development is a region a couple of years ago. We did some national research about Indianapolis in the indie regions jeans brand around the country. We did a national survey of people who who had some connection to Indiana. Maybe Kelly school student living in California. Maybe they were Org New Yorker that grew up in Indiana and we said. Tell us about your impression of Indiana in two thirds of the responses is Were no impression that wasn't positive or negative. It just didn't exist in fact you couldn't visualize living in Indianapolis I saved uh-huh what's it like to live in Seattle. You have a mental image pop into your head or what's it like to live in Denver. There it is what live in Kansas City. We'll okay I uh-huh draw blank. And and that's what happens with the Indianapolis but I say all this because that's actually a net positive for us because it means we have an entire ability to build a brand and why that matters is because we have to attract talent to fill the jobs of the future to Central Indiana if we don't have a vibrant and inviting image that is the tells our story effectively. We're not going to compete with with other peer cities and so as part of that our work with at the chamber with City Indianapolis Mayors from around the region and a ton a very active business leaders in the community has been to compile. Will our stories in Indianapolis and target through SEO search engine optimization specific people with into Indiana hoosier connections all over the country to get them to come back and starting to see a little bit of of early results from that. But it's not a branding exercise. It's really one more about telling the story of what it's like to live in the indie region. I think because most folks can't visualize joie allies What it's like to be here when you match that with this hoosier humility that we all have what we don't do a good enough job of espousing? What a great place to live and raise a family and start a business and invest? We set ourselves up at a disadvantage. And so that's that's the big strategic focus is a region region. I think you'll also see a lot of conversations. You've you've seen it in the papers about a regional governance and regional financing so the challenges inches that Indianapolis Faces Job Center Versus has some of the The way that we finance government in Indiana you you pay your income taxes where you live not where you work so that could create some disparities in terms of how tax dollars are invested at. UCF in potholes and in in policing and and the like so what are some regional strategies. How does how does the India region come together to really show some leadership There are other regions that have done a successful job in identifying strategies to move a region forward in a way that's more inclusive if you look look at Minneapolis or Denver where you have a structure of governance and so these are the big conversations that are taking place at the regional level My team and I I focus specifically on Indianapolis Marion County Where Phil began this morning talking about The importance of economic mobility and again. When when you hear some of these trade challenges the new look at trends around automation the importance of being able to attract and develop developed talent from within is critical so in two thousand seventeen we worked with the Brookings Institution on study that looked at Some of the that some of the structural barriers some of the structural challenges in Indianapolis Economy and it was an inclusive growth learning lab. What we took away from that was in Indianapolis has essentially intially two sided economy? You could have a city where there's there's an eighty percent increase in poverty over a ten year span but you could have an economic economic development organization that works on projects that Creator expanded twenty five thousand jobs in a five year period making sixty thousand dollars a year. That both of those two realities could happen happened that we could be the fifth fastest growing tech economy in the country but yet still have some of the highest poverty rates in the Mid West and so the the business case that came amount that work was that strategies that are aimed at economic mobility developing skills partnering with Workforce Development Organizations Partnering With With Educational -Cational institutions and then working to to advance entrepreneurs We're going to be winning. Strategies going forward as an economic development organization We work with companies every day to attract investment or get them to expand here in Indiana and there are a lot of tools at play That that that can be deployed to make those investments happen for us to win and what we've what we've learned though from the deployment of those incentives think about things like tax breaks. Is that while they created a lot of advanced industry jobs. They the the investments in incented projects disproportionately proportionately went to communities that were low to moderate income When you look at minority populations and who fills those jobs that's where the results are not as strong? And so we said what could what could be done to ensure that we're that government is leveraging its public policies its resources sources in tools to advance business growth in a way that's going to lead to a more inclusive and resilient economy that would only strengthen thank than the region's economy around in so Some some great work that Central Indiana corporate partnership put forth about Opportunity Opportunity Industries. This really focused on those traded sector jobs identified that Central Indiana has to create about one hundred fifteen thousand traded raided sector jobs. These jobs that offer you know. Let's say have a minimum of eighteen dollars an hour plus benefits offer a pathway to the middle class. A hundred and fifteen thousand of those jobs needed to be created in order to lift seventy percent of struggling workers out of a struggling struggling status for lack of a better phrase in so one hundred fifteen thousand. That's that's a lot that's daunting so. How do we leverage the kinds of tools that we have available to do do that? How do we make sure that we're working? With companies that understand that their ability to remove barriers for their workforce is is a really solid investment in in their bottom line. And how can we leverage incentives to do that the largest barriers that that research concluded were transportation training and childcare. So if you have a system. That's leveraging public incentives why not use those public incentive dollars to remove those barriers. It's only a an investment assessment in in a company's bottom line in so beginning two thousand January first two thousand and twenty we will have Worked with the city of Indianapolis Annapolis to reform its scoring system For Incentives and the way those incentives are deployed to focus on those traded sector middle-class. Ask Jobs and and and making sure those investments are going to removing the barriers to workers getting getting to work the other the other big focus in two thousand twenty. The you'll you'll be seeing and hearing more about is a focus on entrepreneurship. Indianapolis has in. Indiana Indiana has lagged in young companies for a few years. Now in part of that. That isn't because part of that is because we have such a strong We have such a strong traded sector economy. There's just you being. An entrepreneur isn't as automatic choice when you have manufacturing and you factoring jobs tech jobs were just however. It's still a really important if you look at the future of retail and e ecommerce having those opportunities to build and make and sell things here locally are going to be really important. It's also an issue when it comes comes to access to capital. We hear from subcontractors working on city projects that to be able to rent equipment hire crew. Do the work wait nine. Sixty to ninety days to get paid is too long. We're working on a program. Actually with the Kelley. School of business is going to look through. What are some of those what what are some of those challenges? And what are the best ways to deploy small business capital usually through not for profit organizations community development financial institutions to make sure that that subs and particularly women minority veteran owned disability owned a business entities are able to compete for those projects in. So that'll be some work really ramping up in early. Two Thousand and twenty and I think you could also think about how how that investment not just for contractors tractors access to capital but for retailers for main street economy There are still a lot of opportunities for self employment to be a pathway to a sustainable sustainable economy in Indianapolis and leveraging some of the horsepower in business that the chamber and that all of you being engaged in Can do we. I think there's some really unique strategies that are going to be able to To deploy capital technical assistance into community businesses and increase the right of young companies. So just to to summarize it all we have a region that is a blank slate for for investment that the ability to build an image has to be priority number one but for that to be successful full. We've got to play in the same sandbox region together. And we do that pretty well when you look at how. How governments work together the relationship? The relationships that mayors have throughout the region but the way that we actually fund basic services is something that we all have to have a stake in in finding a solution for that if we build a more resilient and inclusive economy and if we're focused in facility focused on removing sort of racial in spatial barriers that that limit an individual's ability to access the middle class. These are things like education workforce training transportation and childcare. If we're intentional about how we invest in those in those activities we're going to improve outcomes and then lastly our ability to come up with creative solutions to grow small businesses to encourage entrepreneurs and to broaden participation in the economy are going to be what gets us through two thousand twenty and into a much more resilient future thanks then I'm going to briefly. Share some things that the Kelley school's doing but just to T- you up. We think about some. We're going to be about fifteen minutes for a if we could get to microphones was Jin. Could somebody get the microphones and be ready to Hannam around. Perhaps in just a minute but just to build on if you listen to what Ian Just said and you listen to the environment that Kyle and Kathy described. There's a lot of challenges out there and what is Christ's as for our region is really a challenge for institutions of higher education for all of them including Indiana University and in the tradition of the Kelley school right being one of the most innovative business schools in the world. The proud tradition addition of being a first mover. We are answering this call to action and I WANNA share with you a couple of ways again when I hear talk about the Kelley school programs whereas but again this is about the Kelley school hosted a front porch and driving driving positive. Change that that that leads to more prosperity prosperity in this region. And if you summarize what you just said it comes down to graduating skilled talent and while we do that we make economic mobility a competitive asset in Indianapolis we talk about infrastructure great trails and and a great football team as competitive competitive assets to draw talent guess what economic mobility can be just as powerful an asset. And so what we have started to do is completely early. refigure redesign our academic programs to align with. The talent needs here in this region. I mentioned that. Kyle Gal Colin Kathy were part of the launch of a redesign of our part time. Mba Program our part time MBA program ranked number nine. Th of the nation on on this campus has a proud tradition of graduating the CEOS that serve the nonprofits and the companies and the government agencies here in this city so we reconfigured that curriculum. But what we've done in that curriculum is is that we have a capstone project required now of every student. It's IT'S A consulting project with Indiana businesses that has local impact every one of our MBA students is going to be doing that. That's part of that design again integrating bringing ourselves closer to blur that line between classroom city and workplace with our new evening. Mba Curriculum being launched. We're now working to redesign our undergraduate program here on campus with the plans for launch in fall twenty one and our vision. There is that we will change the national conversation. On how a world class business school delivers undergraduate management education in a thriving urban environments commits in the way we do that is with very progressive integration of working learn. And you'll be hearing more about this as as we start to roll this out. Our goal is to help reduce the recruitment and retention costs of Indianapolis companies. Because if we can do that as a business school we can make Indianapolis couples more more competitive. But we'VE GOT WE'VE GOT COMPANIES WE'RE GONNA HAVE WE'RE GONNA have a precipitous precipitous decline in the number of high school graduates each year and we also have ten thousand in the United States. We have ten thousand Americans leaving the labor force every day because of the baby boomer retirement. The war for talent is going to go nuclear and we want the Kelley school to be positioned to help our companies here in this region. Fight that fight that fight fight for that talent and what better way to do that. Then when when our when our first year students arrive on campus they've got an apprenticeship waiting for them. Seventy percent of our students work anyway. Let's make it easy and convenient for them to work in. Where they they want to major in and have their career and actually this vision is partly inspired by work with chamber on the leadership exchange? We went to Denver and we saw with Colorado was doing with British ships and lastly forgot Acuna in mentioned some some more on the ground work in the city working with the Chamber with a business ownership initiative on a pilot where we deploy alumni. Many of whom of you're part of imagine imagine a program we deploy Kelly alumni to be mentors for businesses being shepherd in the business initiative at the chamber. And it's not I just It's a very well-structured facilitated experience. This'll be a way to scale the ability of alumni to give back to the region and as as in mentioned there's an opportunity here to focus an entrepreneurial areas and economically challenged areas of the city. And we've also been working with the mayor's Office of minority and women business development to help build infrastructure and we look forward to working on that as we go through in two thousand twenty anyway. Let's open it up here. Who's got who's who's got who's got a great question to start off? We got one back here. Hey in how you doing Alan Galloway. I probably had a long Tuesday night right but one thing this question for in. I'm trying to be nicer. Why did you not mention? Foreign investment is a primary economic driver for expansion. I I think I I probably could have been more specific when I was talking about our advanced industries and trade sectors. But that's as my fellow. Panelists talked about the the Indiana does punch above its weight class in in its foreign direct investment because of that we have stuff to export Allen's question about Tuesday tonight my wife is running for town council in speedway and as of yesterday was down by one vote with twenty two votes cast. So there's any ever any questions about whether or not your vote matters. I stumble the Nicolini household other questions. Yeah I think that this question is probably for Kathy. Maybe Kyle One of the biggest things that is facing the world is the the A global climate change and the effects that that is having Both in the When you think about manufacturing in the the costs that are not captured in the environmental impact of importing manufacturing moving goods around That doesn't get reflected in the price so it doesn't become a natural part part of the The give and take of the free market so what I'm wondering and of course also the The component of the market that is the creation of more environmentally friendly kinds of materials solar panels and windmills. Things like that so what I'm wondering from from Anyone on the panel but maybe specifically the the global effect on the national effect is what what do you see. How do you see that playing into the immediate future of the economic growth around? Well I think we we are seeing some of those effects in areas where increased regulations have been imposed and in the short term trying to meet those regulations is implying some cutback in production deduction and and also there's a waiting for For a cheaper way to be meeting some of those those requirements so I mentioned that in the auto sector particularly in Europe this has been felt because of increased regulations there and down the road. Of course this is going to have a positive impact on the environment that short-term the auto industry is certainly feeling the repercussions silence of that till they re engineer and how to meet some of these standards and a cost efficient way. So you know I think I think there's a short term challenge for companies to meet regulations that that are coming. I and some which are here long term. I think they will. They will adjust and so in terms of how is economic growth both measures capturing that GDP does not your does not explicitly measure the environment but that said and it is relevant to note that that economic growth long-term is associated with better environmental and health outcomes so as countries developed and and move up the income ladder that they can make more of those investments short term that can be a cost to then long-term of benefit both in terms of the environment in terms of growth. I would would just add that. I mean this is an area where we're seeing a lack of policy leadership. I think most economists would prefer the way we address some of these issues with a broad based carbon tax which would capture would more accurately reflect the costs of this economic polluting activities. And what we see instead is kind of a mishmash of regulations where Germany has Kathy talked about you've got some countries that are more restrictive. You Got California imposing its own regulatory policy because Washington. DC doesn't wasn't and I mean this. Is I think a great failing of our our current political system where I mean. I don't think it would be hard to come up with kind of the grand bargain where you would have something. That's that's a tax incentive or a tax policy that's maybe more market-friendly leaving a lot of us regulatory environments in yet make significant progress towards environmental goals. That's there ought to be a common ground there and we're just not seeing it. I'm going to ask a real practical question. Then I think might be on a lot of people's minds and that's our retirement portfolios and so a Colin Kathy when you look at twenty twenty. What's your read on the financial markets? And I'm curious when you look at twenty twenty if you were sort of. What are some of our hottest industries and businesses? That are good investments. Right now in Indianap- in Indianapolis let's start with the national the national markets. Did you have to say about that. Cow Cathy I if I were looking at financial predicting stock market returns is about you know one of the most dangerous if not foolish endeavors endeavors entertaining. Yeah so so having said that I will pursue that right. Stocks Stock Valuations nations. Right now are a little bit frothy. There I mean the earnings that we're seeing right now have not been great from companies. They've exceeded expectations expectations quarter. But that's in part because the the earnings expectations have been ratcheted down solo so the I think there remained challenges in the market for a and again with the wide uncertainty of outcomes. Twenty twenty whether those be political economic make all of that is going to factor in the market. So you know I would have some caution you know we can all talk about if you're in it for the long term then then there's probably no reason to take action and just be there but I would suggest that you know twenty twenty. It's going to be your of of high volatility and perhaps lower than average returns. I'll I'll second that just on the global end and in terms of fixed income interest rates. I don't see interest rates are rising To be able to provide a really strong source incumbent anytime soon so interest rates are going to remain low globally and probably in the United States as well as as the Fed takes this wait and see approach going into twenty twenty in terms of stocks globally. I think you you have to take a long-term perspective and look cat economic growth around the world. I mentioned that the recovery in global growth is really being driven by growth rebounded emerging markets. So there's still a lot of growth potential in those markets. You see a rising middle class in many of these markets. And that's that's eventually. Are you going to be reflected in stock returns so diversification is always a good piece of advice in terms of Industry Trends Growth Industries Central. Indiana we continued to punch well above our weight class when it comes to tech companies that are that are in marketing for with for region region that needs to market itself better. It seems like a growth opportunity The that expands into sort of business to business technology as well. Are you looking company. Like emphasis locating their Their North American Training Center at the former airport terminal that's going to host host well over a thousand employees. I think they're up around seven hundred having just made their first investment two years ago if you look at if you look at a lot of our legacy manufacturing companies how they're shifting to a more technological based workforce you're you're not seeing manufacturers moving totally toward automated did workforce's. You're having highly skilled individuals working with Working with automation so that Trend Continues Allison's sends transmissions making a massive investment in technology center on Tenth Street. Rolls Royces is competing for the beef fifty two bomber re Engineering Project Project So a lot of these You know what we think of is kind of rooted in traditional manufacturing but embracing much newer technologies. That confluence is where. We're seeing a lot out of the activity Have seen some slowdown. These last six months in the in growth in traditional manufacturing at the local level but as those as those sectors sectors are more enhanced with technology automation You're you're starting to see some interesting growth opportunities there That's that's we're going to continue to see growth in healthcare life sciences. Those are areas where we're our region is very competitive and logistics great. We have a question over here so you started talking about it. Briefly Cathy About Monetary Policy Obviously the Treasury's been quite a roller coaster ride over the last twelve eighteen months and now mentioned again briefly some negative interest rates throughout the euro zone. Now you have some of the talking heads saying well now we we need to follow our competition down with our overall rate environment mm-hmm and our benchmark rates What do you see some of the pitfalls of that perhaps some of the benefits to that? And where do you see. fed monetary policy as. You look get the minutes and going into twenty twenty you see a continued of more accommodative stance. You mentioned Canada. Wait and see approach but You could expand on that a bit as we move move into next year. I'll try again trying to predict the policies a little bit like predicting the stock market but based on my reading of policy they had three cuts this year and fairly quickly in the second half. We're seeing some positive. Were positive the indicators coming out of purchasing managers indices and some other factors so it's still a bit mixed I think and that was reflected opted in the Fed minutes that the Fed is is interested in being patient right now. The you know what they'll be looking for are any additional risks to growth. That are surprises. Such is I think they honestly were surprised. By the impact of the trade uncertainty windy and the tariffs and how that that was impacting the US and local markets. So if we have another shock like that then we could see another interest rate cut. Do I see the Fed going negative like Europe. I I again. I hate to predict interest rates. But personally I I do not and I just like to say again that I. It's a dramatic. I view it as a dramatic change to move interestrates straights into negative territory and so far. The evidence on the benefit of negative interest rates is not overwhelming. We're seeing continued low growth in Japan. We see continued low growth in Europe. So you don't see it. Sparking huge amounts of investment the other other concern with such low interest rates is honestly a build up of debt and a move into risky assets. And that can happen. Within within Europe it can happen overseas. They can money can be shifted around the globe very easily and so if we see a build up in some of those just risks and the actually the global financial stability report that the IMF published in. October they have no. They have highlighted that as one of the risks in the current environment so I honestly anticipate for the rest of this year. Maybe into early next year. We'll I have more of a wait and see approach the economy of balls and it would take a significant shock. I believe for the United States to be moving down to zero again and I and considering negative. I don't think there's a lot of support at the Federal Reserve right now for that kind. Yeah thank you Kathy and I think we have time for one more question so Calvin Sanders. Iu Health in two thousand eighteen. Kelly Grad so I was curious it came up a little bit earlier but particularly force or the role that healthcare plays nationally and also for the region with four major hospital systems around. What kind of insight do you? You have four. The projected Healthcare growth for that industry the coming year. I mean a lot of this demographic driven right. I mean healthcare is going to be growing sector so I I don't think there's any doubt on the demand side we're going to continue to grow that is it's going to increase as a share of the economy. So I think from that point of view you can project out at healthy growth there. I think the challenge will be more on the payer side uncertainty around whether it's affordable care. Obviously we get an election where one party is talking a lot about the Medicare for all and kind of I mean we've got significant changes on the horizon in terms of healthcare policy and reimbursement so demand-side is going to be there. There's going to be jobs and needs. That's you know I. I think that's undoubtedly you know without doubt. That's going to be the case. The question is on on the reimbursement side. Kevin one thing. That's that's kind of. We're doing interesting We're doing I think is interesting here. Locally is working with if healthcare and higher education. IEP Why being one of the better understand what they're purchasing that leverages well into the billions of dollars others and spend that a lot of it leaves the state of Indiana. So we're We're working with a number of those anchor institutions now to better understand what they're buying lying and where it's coming from so that we can work with entrepreneurs and local companies to get them ready to compete for local sourcing opportunity so it it doesn't tell you much about growth in the industry history itself but when you think about the the economic development potential of some of these untapped resources in Higher Ed being one of those healthcare being another it it really does create create some unique synergies. That were interesting to learn more about. Thank you so much for listening. Wherever you are listening to this podcast? It would mean a great deal for us if you could rate eight and leave a review and if you're listening to a platform that has a subscribe option. Be Sure to subscribe so you can get the latest episodes as they come out. This has been another episode of the Roi podcast presented by the Indian University Kelley. School of business. I'm your host Matt Martel. We're our mission is to help. Organizations innovations make better business decisions. We'll see you next week
Becoming the person you want to be: How to create behavior that lasts I Ep. 147
"We journey through life we don't have total control over the hinder cartons we'd been dealt. We have choice over how we play that head. Welcome to another episode of the Roi podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley School of Business I'm your host Teresa mackin filling in for Matt Martel. Today, I'm joined by ID Kessler. Dean of the Kelley School and Frank P popoff chair of strategic management here on the our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions. So if you're considering a tough leadership topic, you think we should explore or if you know of someone who would make a great guest for our show, send us an email to Roi pod. That's Roi P. O.. D. At up y DOT EDU today were sitting down with Marshall Goldsmith a leading executive coach and bestselling author. He is a new member of the thinkers fifty hall of fame and the American Management Association named Goldsmith One of fifty great thinkers and leaders who have influenced the field of management during the past eighty years businessweek called him one of the most influential practitioners in the history of Leadership Development Goldsmith is a Kelly Mba graduate and he received Kelley School of Business Two Thousand Nine Distinguished Entrepreneur Award. Thanks so much for being with us. Thank you so much for inviting me. So happy to be here. I love my time at I you. We. Really appreciate it. You have written more than forty books and today we want to focus on one of the more recent ones. It's called triggers creating behavior that lasts becoming the person you want to be. And we thought perhaps the most important place to start in discussing this book is simply with understanding the essence of the main title triggers. So can you explain what are triggers and why are they so important to this idea of behavioral change? A trigger, any stimulus that may impact our behavior. So, it could be a sight of sound word or smell. So when we begin our day, we have this fantasy of what today is going to be like we don't plan on this it as we go through the day, all kinds of things come up around us. Now sometimes, these triggers pushed us toward becoming the person that we want to be. That's the exception in most cases triggers pushes away from the person we want to be. you want to go the Diet but you. Smell. The Bacon Cookie nor let's just have one more drink or you know just all millions of triggers are bombarding our lives. Are you want to go online I'm gonNA look something on Google and it's only gonNA take three or four minutes three hours later you're still online. You have no idea why you went online in the first place three hours just past. Well, these are all examples of triggers, any stimulus by impact, our behavior. So Marshall there there's a statement in your book that I really liked and I'm wondering if you might explain it to our listeners wrote fate is the hand of cards we've been dealt choice is how we play the hand and I suspect you have lots of examples which. Made sharing an example with our audience and explaining what you mean by that. As we journey through life, we don't have total control over the hand of cards we've been dealt. We have choice over how we play that hand and let me give you a terrible. I call this the beer can and the Golfer is perfect for today's time of crisis okay. The Golfer gets ready to hit the ball. And he's doing pretty well, this is little country club championship but he's all excited. He's on the last hole in the force in before during noisy drinking beer annoying people very annoying. And he gets up here. He's perfect dry. Right down the fairway and it goes just to the left wanted but all of a sudden. The Ball Koreans in goes over into the rough. A terrible is what happened he so upset he walks toward the ball he sees a Buracam. The idiots in front of him of left a beer can so angry, it approaches the ball and. I S to do. That go let call. Forget about the beer can forget about the drive the previous shot let go number to come up with a strategy. If you're one shot behind a mind go for the green your two shots ahead. Pitch over is still in come up with a strategy then you walk up to the ball. You breathe. You forget about the beer. Can you forget about winning a championship? You win thing it a shot in front of you. Head shot in front of will fade and choice fake is the beer can. We don't have any control over that. The hand of cards we've been dealt. Beer can the rough? That's it. Twice. We make a strategy. The ball at the shot. In a book you identify fifteen belief triggers can you give an example or two of a belief trigger and also explain why these sabotage lasting change we'll have these incredible fantasies about this person we're going to become and the reality is for almost all of us. The problem is not knowing who we want to become. It's becoming that person for example, the what happens I mean? It's incredibly difficult to get people to change behavior. The people like poetry among. President World Bank and ahead of the Mayo Clinic and in a head of the Newark Public Library The Rockefeller on. The air in the United States on and on and on either a god-like people right? It's hard to change. Is Hard for anybody to change because we had this fantasy about life we all set these goals. We think I'm just GonNa Journey through life, and we have these strange beliefs. Let me just give me a couple of that sabotages I'll start with my favorite. Today is a special day. You see there is a I'm going to go on my diet, but is the Super Bowl, you see the Super Bowl and Welcome, Olean pizza is a super bowl. I'm going to get on that night, but is my kids birthdays is a kid's birthday. My mother's birthday. Where's my birthday? It's gotTA. Be Somebody's birthday. So his gift that we don't want to do something we go every day because this special day I'll do it tomorrow. But today today is very different day today let Coutts. Another one is called the high probability of low probability events. Is. See, we never plan on low probability occurrences. Why? Because they're low improbability you don't plan your computer's GonNa break your Internet's going to go out your car's going to wreck your aunt is planning stuff. We my say of course not they're tiny and probability problem is have a degree in. There's a million tiny probability things that can go wrong and the odds on anyone of them going wrong or tiny. That's something going wrong remmel certain every day something goes wrong. How many days do you wake up and nothing happens to get your distracted nothing happens to get things out of the way it always happens. So. We've got a lot of those. Also we have a belief if I understand if I understand I will do. Earn wrong is a huge gap between understand I do when my Would you here which there was a number one bestselling business book in America? The number one best selling died in America sold ten times as many copies Americans get fatter and fatter and fatter purchasing more and more diet books. We don't lose weight because you purchase a diet book you gotTa on a diet. The problem is not knowing what to do. You know the problem is doing it the former governor of California the the governator Arnold Schwarzenegger had a good quote. Nobody muscles by watching me lift the weights. You got to lift the weights and it's incredibly difficult to lift weights. So I've got lots of beliefs like well these crazy beliefs that have nothing to do with reality. Of course, all the book is filled with those. You know I wanNA follow up on something you just mentioned you just set it in the last at questioned that you are answering You said, why don't we become the person we want to be and stress that the environment around his plays a big role you had this statement in the book that I think is incredibly powerful. You say, we think we're in sync with the environment that Ashley, it's at war with us what do you mean by that and why is this so very important to understanding triggers? Well. What happens is we think we're on top of things yet. We don't realize we live in this world of constant constant change for example, temptation always tempted by something. You know I'll give you an example my own life. I'm going to be on an airplane. We all have our problems. One of my problems I like what? I do too much. So we'll be on an airplane on eight hour flight. I'm going to get all this done this plan. Some guy sits to be some poor soul. You know what he says, what do you do for a living? Eight hours later look over. For guys to kill themselves though my God, why did I ask right? Well, greatest I'm sure you've never done this but greatest need of the students learn greater yet is need of the teacher stage. As we journey through likes we've got these constant things that are coming up that we never planned for whenever assumes going to happen because we have this dream life that we're pretended to live, which would all live. struck actually by the important role that feedback plays in understanding that connection we were talking about earlier between our behavior and the environment. Can you talk a little bit about how feedback work you know what I do for living is let's pretend lift Britain idee year futures CEO and Theresa you're the CEO. Okay. So everyone I coaches either usually future CEO CEO's so let's coaching ICTY So. I will work with you if you get feedback. So I, interview everyone around her all of her stakeholders and they talk about how she doing and I write a report and then you're the C. E. O.. So we made the three of us as saying, okay, I says I feel good about this. Get better to say to you while Co Teresa what do you think is a good and I say, well, she gets better stuff judged by these people worth this money yes or no the answer no don't harm if the answer is yes you can't loose gets better payments should done. It's all free. So it's what I do for a living and feedback is critical was how do we know we all have this image of who we are? Is Image of who we are all the image often has very little to do with reality. It's real easy to see things. We don't like ourselves and everybody else. It's a whole lot harder to see it in ourselves and get feedback from everybody around you. Had face FAG maybe maybe the entire world not the only ones with problems here. Maybe I are some stuff I need to work on as well and seeing one thing I'm proud of in my job thirty years ago. No, CEO admit to having a coach It would have been ashamed. My Book Triggers Twenty seven major CEO's endorse it book. President World Bank, see over here in the United States number two CEO of the earned the United States. You know CEO Walmart the CO visors eeo of a target on and on and on. You know great people I'm so proud of that. They'll need help we all need help. You also talked about feedback loops. Can you talk a little bit about that? Well, you know the feedback loop you go through the cycle of you you get feedback, and then that feedback produces a change in behavior that rain changing behavior then produces more. In a feeds on itself and continues. So in my coaching, what I do is you get feedback and the feedback is how you're doing but after that everything feed forward. So what you do is you don't ask for more feedback you asked for ideas for the future. So he say like I WANNA to be a better listener give ideas not I want to be a better listener. Give me feedback about the past these much more positive and fun to give feed forward and feedback. It's clear that triggers come in all shapes and sizes. For example, you discuss direct or indirect, internal or external, conscious or unconscious anticipated or unexpected I'd like to follow up on two dimensions you discuss encouraging or discouraging, and productive or counterproductive. These. Yes how do the EVAC together to influence our behaviour? We'll think of a matrix. A Matrix now and encouraging and productive one might let's just take getting in shape essays you went to visualize. Encouraged like maybe your friend or relative says you can do it. They're encouraging you and when you do better, they give you reinforcements. That's good. But I mentioned myself. Not much overweight but I was ten pounds overweight I. got no encouragement. In fact discouragement my wife will you look fine my friends you look. You don't need to do this. EAT The desert the you know it's it's it's discouraging need to be who i WanNa me sometimes you get encouragement to do some. You don't want to do the ten that were that is temptation. have another piece of cake have a beer whatever it might be for you, and then you know. So we have this levels of do I get encouraged get not encouraged and is it productive? Is it helping me become the person I want to be or is it counterproductive? Which is it's prohibiting me from being the person that I want to be. Now you often see this for example, with unfortunate case of people who have drug alcohol problems. Especially drug problems. And you go back into that same community. It's usually over. It's over because what the reinforcement cycle is you're encouraged to do something it's counter. Productive you want to change. They actually do kick the habit, but they become drug addicts again. So a lot of this is the environment it's not just I'm a good person or a bad person. The drug addict that comes in from a tough neighborhood goes back and becomes a drug addict. Again, there's no better or worse as a person and the drug addict coming back in Vietnam goes into a different neighborhood and kick the habit the only difference, the triggers environment. That's a good reminder about how how much of a role that environment plays for us. You know that an epiphany that you had at one point that each of us is is our own purse in our own personal lives as both planner and doer and generally speaking you say that most of us are superior planners and inferior doers and you tell this absolutely wonderful story about a dinner party, you hosted in English twenty fourteen for good seventeen. If you're coaching clients, brought them all together. I. Wonder if we would share that story and the lessons you learn from that well, the storage really begins with the previous story about I said, his name was his name is Ross Shaw on reality is right. She doesn't care to tell the story Rosh was head of the United States Agency for International Development at the time. got. IQ OF ZILE was thirty seven years old reporting to Hillary Clinton. So he kind of like a big deal and so he's got this Iq zillion but he had a problem you know excited about things. So again, I'll excited when he did he would just start giving people. Don't you do this? It's all look into that. His brainwork about a million miles an hour, and then all of a sudden these people. Four people get the same assignment. So He's getting this feedback and then try to do better than. He's okay until the end of the day and then burrows and he starts going crazy again. Great Guy didn't have any bad intentions at all didn't even know he was doing it right? Well, what happened is the story simply made an index card. Carried in front of every meeting in whatever eat before he spoke in any medium to look at the car have I given someone site before. Hey. Cargo Oh wait. Wait. Wait a second. No I'm already done that and it's amazing. Network now. Okay. We go to dinner at the four. Seasons. Restaurant back today when it was a big deal. So we're going to dinner and have these fancy dinners from my clients writes everybody's and I had this little game I play. If you say no better however, you makes some sarcastic governor something you pay twenty dollars and the end of the nature conservancy was at merck terrific by the way just talked mark a couple of minutes ago he was there. In the money all goes in nature so so Goading people on anyway he doesn't care. So he's there and of course, also I'm not going to do this. So then I said, well, I bet you all do this 'cause you're probably all gonna fail that makes it worse in there now. Horse then they drink so Once starting it's Bob. So then as joking around and drinking and then all sudden people throwing. Money. Making sarcastic comments and. Arguing. In. Going on and on. Collecting money when Guy Their News Walmart. You had to go to the cash machine. Cuts literally, it's legal best Toronto, the cash over money, and there's only one person didn't lose money. That was my friend rush. Why? A card. And he put it under his little drinking cup. It said, don't make them come at. He had a role. He had. He had to look at the car before we talked. And he's looking at is watched the others throwing money on it it. Was it and you know in life we all need encouragement. When we give an example, I have someone called me on the phone every day. Every day. Call me. Listen to me read questions I wrote in Answers Glaspie of drive a coach call every day why. You See. They say, well, don't you know the theory about how to change behavior? Why do you need someone call you every day don't you know the theory you see I wrote the theory. I wrote the theory that's why absolute call me every day. Mike. My Name is Marshall Goldsmith. I got ranked number one coach and leadership thinker in the whole world I, have. So my call on the phone every day just to listen to me read questions, I wrote him fried answers I wrote every day I. Do I do this unto cowardly to do this by myself I'm too undisciplined to do this by myself. I need help is okay. We'll need help I really liked the idea of of even something as simple index card reminding you of something becomes the trigger to ensure that you stay on track. So I think that's very important in. That's one of the reasons I like that story. We one word. Before we leave that one. One of my i. Call the daily question process and one of my questions was what percent of the day was I mindful. Deny that term mindfully I'm Buddhist mindful but percent was a mind fall my answers about thirty percent on the average which I'm sure is ally probably don't even deserve the thirty percent I wouldn't be mindful all the time we sit only one thing prohibits me from being mindful do you know what it is? I forget. I forget to be mindful good for Gary Ridgway is one of the greatest leaders I've ever met. He's wd four is the best employee engagement scores, the whole United States. And his in his office he has big thing just be mindful. Now he's not stupid. But it's triggers he goes to work the phone rings invoice me. The adrenaline starts pumping. He's God. He's just gone. And he has had this thing every day. Look be mindful I think. I think that's a great example of of using a trigger to help you stay on course and to help you manage the things you want to accomplish in your life and change your behavior. I also enjoy reading your description of magic moves. What are magic moves and what makes them magic and can you give us an example of a few of those magic moves? Some of the ones that I talk about our one is speed forward. And feed forward is very simple I was in Saint Petersburg before this crisis idea program fifty, thousand people in one stadium. And I'd say you're all feed forward. You pick something you're GonNa WanNa do better you tell people what it is and my name is Marsha holding me better give me ideas. My Name's Barry I won't be better recognition. You shake hands talk more people's fifty thousand people they all talk to each other. We loved it. So, what's magic about feed forward is it it's another future you can. Change. It's not about the past you can't change. It's positive. It's negative and it doesn't focus on some humiliating recitation of your previous is how much fun is to relive that it's not fun. Another one is apologizing. Just being able to say him. Sorry. It goes such a long way. Just a sincere apology of just being able to say I'm sorry. You know in many respects this book is almost an eye opening look at how executive coaching sessions work you encourage people to set up a series of daily sessions to stay on track of their own personal behavior change. So you said each question begins with did I do my best to for instance? Did I do my best to make progress towards my goals today or did I do my best to build positive relationships today? Why is it so important to frame the questions in that way? Is Very interesting I'm GonNa give you the six basic questions that are most important. And our researcher, you saw the research the bulk. Amazing. Six questions and ask yourself everyday that begin with. Did I do my best to now I? I got that from my daughter Kelly. I, give you a background, my daughter Kelly I was just bragging about her just one, the orders number one teacher and researcher Inventor Business School PhD from Yale. So very proud of my daughter Kelly. So Kelly ny are talking I went to a program about employee engagement. Employee Engagement Ed three heads of HR from big companies babbling on that everything about employee engagement and talk about empower people and Training in fear. It was all common sense. I've heard a thousand times. And then. They send employee engagement global is all time low. I'm thinking wait a minute if you're so smart we all this stuff is employee engagement all the time automatic do this stuff. then. A realized one hundred percent of the dialogue and engagement is what can the company do you zero percentage? You have any responsibility at all for your own life This not exaggeration hundred percent it's the company's problem zero percents employs. John Kennedy made a great speech. You know asked your country can do for you ask what you can do for your country. This is the opposite of the John Kennedy speech everything was option said, well, then they're missing the point here. I'm on the same slide in one flight attendants positive motivated diseasing ones negative angry will know same employee engagement program. The difference is on the inside. Kelly, said, all the employee engagement questions begin with for example, do you find meaning work or do you have a best friend at work or do you have cleared volts? Islamiyah's quarter called passive questions people give negative response to blame the environment. Clear bowls. No. Why would they're confused I mean for? No no no there. They may be trivial. have another altered them meme them. When you ask an active question, you look in a mirror and especially question what did I do my best to now? Why is that so hard? You can't blame someone. You can't blame someone else did I don't even say you succeeded did I do my best to the six questions number one did I do my best to set clear goals? Now this last weekend I fifty coaching sessions with fifty mega. Successful people did I do my best to set clear goals are probably average score was four out of ten is shocked me how bad it was. Did, I, do my because we just forget the Senate lows. You wake up. On the look at your email, and then I gotTa Meet News Phone Call. Then it's four o'clock. Well, what were your goals? I guess the answer an email I don't. Again, I didn't bother to set the goals number that I make progress toward achieving my goals number three tonight. Do my best to find meaning renaissance. Did somebody give me meaning today? Did I do my best create me? Number four did I do my best to be happy? Very good question might favorite line and that book. Even the greatest sharpshooter can miss a very big target Kim. Okay in the final two questions. Did I do my best to build positive relationships in did I do my best to be fully engaged? And if you look at the numbers in the book, they're amazing just by asking these questions everyday. What happens like thirty I? Forget thirty four percent people say to everything sixty seven percents better on for out of six in ninety-one percents that he got better something. Well, why every day these questions get us to challenge ourselves Olympia of the hardest question. You can ask yourself every day it has four qualities. Are you ready? US In it's totally counterintuitive number one, you write the question. Wasn't hard. You cannot blame the idiot that wrote the question. Number two, you know the answer. Was that argue what? You can't say you don't know how to do it. Number three you know it's important. Can't say it's trivial and number four. All you have to do to make a high scores try. to, succeed just try. Was it so hard. Nobody to blame. I think that's a great lesson. That's why phrasing it that way is so instructive did I do my best to? I really liked the way you phrased that. In your book, you also have an acronym, a watt. And this is a question. You ask yourself when you have to decide when to engage or when to tackle something and win to let it go the question I believe that you ask is am I willing at this time to make the investment required to make a positive difference on this topic? As, you I think I gotta right as you point out a wad is a delaying mechanism which is interesting to me. Why is it so important to have a delaying mechanism between trigger and behavior? So you know Peter Drucker said, our mission law has to make a positive difference. Nuts prove how smart we are not going. Right we are. Not here on Earth rivers mark. Bob. Upstream difference. So that question is emily willing at this time to make the investment required m willing I. Am I going to try to do this at this time now? To, make the investment required in there's always an investment to make a positive difference. I just approve ride make a positive for on this topic. The answer is, yes, you do it. Big Or small you do it if the answer is no, you just let it go it. We're not here to prove your smart. To make a difference and so in a sense, what it's doing is it's causing us to pause just a moment. And understand what's important to as an is it worthy of my time? My attention to do this now it is, and if it's not do it, right right. Let me ask one final question we are facing such difficult byrant today we are. There's a pandemic going on there's matters of social unrest in injustice. There's political turmoil. We seem as groups farther apart not closer together wondering if we think about the book triggers and changing behavior. Are there lessons to be learned for the current environment that seems so challenging for us. I think there are in the key lesson I would give you focus on something you're willing to try to make a difference. Really, am I willing to make a difference here? Am I can do something positive. or Am I just talking. I think that's an awfully good goal for for taking an environment where you might feel overwhelmed. And ensuring that, we can do one positive thing to move ourselves forward and and put one foot in front of the other right that's what it's about. Exactly. Marshall, Goldsmith leading executive coach and bestselling author. Thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate your time says then another episode of the Roi podcast presented by the Indiana University, Kelley School of Business I'm your host Teresa mackin joined today by the Dean of the Kelley School Id, Kastner, you're on the show. Our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions. We'll see you next week.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays from The ROI Podcast | Ep. 116
"Welcome to another episode of the Roi podcast presented by the Indian University Kelley. School of business. I'm your host that Mar our tele- here on this show. Our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions if this is your first time tuning in we just want to welcome you to the Kelly family and we just want you to know that if there's anything we can do to help you out along leadership journey please let us know. We'd love to get some of our faculty advice in front of you if we can answer a question that you wrestling with to try to help you with that or would also love your guests nomination so if you have any of those questions or concerns shoot us an email to our. I pot. That's our PD at up dot the here as you travel this holiday season wanting. Biton to check out our archive in download download. Some episodes tweet joy on your journey wherever you are going to see while you're there and if you enjoy content please let us know. Give us a five star rating and review so wiki Airbus and now a message Mardine. Id Kezner the holidays. Are a season for celebration. And and this year the Kelley School of Business Indiana University have even more reason to celebrate as I you Marxists bicentennial. The Kelley school celebrates its centennial. And and one hundred years of creating momentum in business education. We asked didn't on Kelley's Bloomington and Indianapolis Campuses to reflect on the schools. One hundred year history and ensure their hopes for Kelly's future. What does it mean to be a part of Kelly in its hundred year. I'll just say it's an honour makes me feel like I have this big legacy that doc Ford Kelly's before me left behind one hundred years is a long time. We have the opportunity to stand on the shoulder of giants. What God Kelly Hillary to be such an amazing school an amazing program to be part of the end of every class. We clapped it's tests. Elevate the learning that went on in the classroom and how he challenged each other probably early Is a lot of people. Think it's hard and honesty. It is all right. Stay on the balanced week that we have right before finals weekly can be honest on. Ezra cheat or like the tradition of sooner students go on to become. CEO's accompanies actually telling parents. When I was coming back from Thanksgiving break eight that I I call this my home now. I definitely feel like I'm a part of a family here at Kelly. There's always someone I can reach out to even though we met like two months ago and I met him like a month ago. We have a bonding and a family. I feel like I've known them longer than I really have. A lot of people like even outside of working on projects. We're always the we people your help you out like the seniors and the teacher. Joyce NPR coaches. Some advice I would have for feature feature Kelly. Students is just to embrace all the experiences that you have stay. Motivated bring the positive energy to make positive change to the world. I'm hoping that Kelly will. We'll be around for another hundred years. We're actually much more. My hope that Kelly school business will continue providing access for a large diverse. Group of students like me. I really would like to see us to continue to focus on being a welcoming community for anyone. Thank you for ringing and Kelly's centennial and for continuing doing to be part of our story from all of us at the Kelley School Happy Holidays and from all of us here at the Roi podcast. We want to wish you and your family a Merry Christmas happy holidays and a happy new year from the bottom of our hearts here Kelly. Thank you for spending time with US each and every week. We'll see you in the new year.
Part One: What are the foundational skills to having influence as a leader? | Ep. 138
"Influence is a structure of probably three pillars or foundations, ethos pays us in logos, which translates your credibility, he on your biological appeal, and you're emotional. Welcome to another episode of the Roi podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley. Business I'm your host Matt? Martel up here on the show. Our mission is to help. Organizations make better business decisions, so we just WANNA welcome. All of you who are joining us for the very first time and just say welcome to the Kelly. Family we exist for you so whether that's your wrestling with the organizational leadership question. You're not sure what to do. or You simply would like to ask one of our faculty get some of their advice on a specific topic or you simply know of gas that would make a great interview for our show. You can get a hold of us here at the Roi podcasts at Roi pod. That's ROI PD AT UPI DOT Edu. All right so when we think of leadership, there are many traits that kind of define. What a good leader! As we hear servant leadership, we hear you know leading setting examples leading by action, but there's definitely one trait that I would argue and I'm sure. A lot of other people argue that is synonymous with leadership that you cannot, they cannot exist exclusively. That is influence having an influence as a leader. I mean leadership is influencing influencing cultures. You have an influence organizations. You're having to influence teams how decisions are! Are made it's all about in bringing an influence to an organization. So today we are joined by Brenda. Bailey Hughes, and Tatyana Cola Vu. Both senior lecturers for the Kelley, School of business you specialize in executive, coaching and organizational communication. Ladies just want to welcome to the show, so let's start things off right right out the gate I. Want to start with you. What are some of the foundational skills that you need in order to have influence? Influence is a structure of probably three pillars or foundations, and we're. Tatyana will jump in with the Greek charms as because she's Greek representative. We laugh and say that her Uncle Aristotle taught her base, so the millers aren't brand new. This is not recent literature, but really ancient thinking and depths of. That replicated again and again in research, we discovered that EGO space hasn't logos which translate to your credibility appealed your. Appeal and you're emotional appeal. Those are the foundations of good influence. So you show me a leader who can speak to my head to appeal Megan makes sense who can prove that here. She is a reliable trustworthy person that credibility appeal, and who cannot just talk to my head, but also get me in the valley. Give me in my heart. Who My heartstrings that I will show you the leader who has influential abilities out just. Just crazy crazy ability. Tatyana going into the this idea that. No Influence Is being one of these foundational bedrocks for leadership. There's also this component of of this trust that has to be built. You know so talk about. Where does trust come into building influence as a leader? Matt we could go on for the entire afternoon here because there's so many pieces that components that go into building trust with others if you think for yourself, what made you trust a person that you worked with? Or what made you lose your trust of a person that you work with? It's hard to gain an. It's so easy to lose and going back to what Brenda was mentioning for us to maintain that be consistent people that are trusted a ones that are consistent with their word consistent with their actions that are caring much about others that are around them and are. On ongoing, making efforts to create those relationships that show that they're listening in that they care, but trust again takes time and It has to be very mindful of very thoughtful of the person who's trying to build it to do it. It's hard to to build as I said, and it's easy to miss it of those three Hiller Credible appeal, logical appeal, Emotional Appeal Tatyana and I argued that credibility appeal. Takes precedence that without it, the other two sort of fade away so if even if I have all of the stats and the evidence in the world. That's logical appeal. Great arguments data. If you don't trust me as a person, you'll look at all that data and just kind of blow it off. It'd be like yeah. You could make stats say anything Blah Blah, so we always arguing you gotta start credibility piece and I Use The word assistance, and that certain part of the credibility equation, but but we don't wait when we teach credibility, we don't stop with consistency which you'll see. Some authors define outweigh. It's a piece of that puzzle. Bet You could be consistent and still not be trustworthy, so matt. You'd be consistent if you came into the office every day. And just told me what a jerk I wasn't smashing back of my head. You know that's consistency. You're reliable can rely on you to call me in the mornings, but. But it's not trustworthy so consistency just part of the equation back on what Brenda said about ethos or the credibility appeal. Sometimes, it's really your brand. It's what walks into the room before you do. It's the name that you carry you know as we get older in our business careers. We kinda have A. we have an aura around us. That's based on things we've done or haven't on actions on projects. We followed through. We have a brand in today's Day and age, also that brand carries over in the whole virtual world when someone looks us up on our Lincoln profile or gets a message in an email from us, that trustworthiness is so much of it is unspoken some. Some people can decide. They trust us before they even meet us because they they've heard of us or they've They've seen our work so it something trust is something that as we said it is embedded in the credibility appeal in constantly needs to be attended to I think that's an interesting point because you know. A lot of studies suggest me within the first few moments seconds of scenes milliseconds people make an initial judgment or assessment, if that trust is even there to begin with so I, want to ask the question because you know obviously with leadership, there comes a lot of mistakes, a lot of failures, a Lotta wrong decisions and I would even think a lot of. Lost Trust with those decisions that maybe just rub some the wrong way so as an organizational leader who may who's made failures I mean we all have. How do you begin to rebuild some of that trust because like you said it's. It's hard to gain an easy to lose. So how'd you especially after you've lost it? It's even harder you know to rebuild. So how does a leader start to? Rebuild or begin. Where do they begin to start that process? One I think it's important to remember that the way we handle that recovery process for whatever error mistakes that we've made. Can actually further our credibility? A colleague was just sharing some research with about help me if I get this tangled up touchdown, bet. people who have. Construction projects down their home. Interesting Matt's doing some construction right now. Will when we were doing some construction if they have contractors in and the contractors and. We're GONNA see down by this date and everything's GonNa be great, and it is people. Give them. Let's say four out of five on a satisfaction survey. If they had a little punch listed things that were quite work quite right in the project. Answer the errors. The mistakes that we make his leaders were made, and the people play the customers complain. Hey, you didn't do X. Y. and Z. Right, and they are quick to fix it in our politic. Then they will actually get the fine five on the customer service survey so I think we need to be careful with that kind of research that we don't say oh. I should intentionally a blunder so I get the. Points but I do think it's important to know that. We are going to mess up as you pointed out, and it's okay, because that the way we recover from the mistakes can still completely stood, defy our leadership credibility. Met We do an activity with our MBA students where they watch apology videos of CEOS and their in Leising, the non verbals on the non verbals, from stands to gestures to I contact to to to facial expressions of showing remorse or or apology, and then the words that they say, and what the context of all of that is in. It's so true that trustworthy you can build as Brenda said that trust in your recovery email letter memo video. If you are vulnerable to say, I messed up. Sometimes that increases the trust level. You're transparent is a leader, says look, we are in hard times. I don't know what this where this is going I'm. I'm also struggling with this. It's okay to do that. In fact, you build more trust and finally being sincere about not doing it as Brenda said not messing up, so you can gain points on. Men are making up for it, but people can read through that very very quickly. Initially. When you meet someone, you don't know that likeability factor, do I decide if I'm even gonNA listen, but when you know someone for a while you tend to, and you've invested in that relationship whether it's organizational or personal. You're willing to kind of see how they recover. In time, you really can turn things around and have people trust you even more essence. Sincere apology has a few. absolutes there is an actual apology. There's some point where someone accept that responsibility to say I'm sorry or stop or I this was a mass. There's there's this self accountability about it. There's an actual apology. You hear those words. Another. Element of a good apology is here's what we're doing to make sure it doesn't happen again or here's what I'm doing to make sure it doesn't happen again and here's how I'm trying to make up for any pain that you experience because of microphones this time in those three things being in an apology, make it. Go A lot longer loan. You can't just blurt it out. You gotta think about it a little bit and be strategic. It's worth the investment in a thank you for a lot of organization leaders. There's this overwhelming sense or You know there's there's fear or there's worry and we all know you know what eighty or ninety percent of all worry never comes true to begin with, and so for free a lot of organizational leaders. You screw up mess something up making a mistake. There's kind of this own. No, WHAT ARE PEOPLE GONNA? Think of me as a leader. Now. The look up to me as someone to. To lead, I can't be making mistakes. When in reality, it's those leaders we see who are open do come with palms up. Just authentic are the ones that have this you can. You can feel it in the organization Oh. There's a relate ability. He's screws up. He's human just like me. He's not some guy on this pedestal. Wow, okay I can. I can relate with him more. Into I don't know if you guys want to speak, speak on just that. Overcoming of all of your urges as an individual says no like you can fix this. Don't expose yourself. Don't don't be opened, but like clam up and we're going to get through this well I think that it's not just yourself that is sending. All those messages cover covered up, don't. Don't don't look voluble, but you also have sometimes we Tatyana. NARC, insulting have seen legal departments. Duke it out with leaders in the organization over do not apologize. Do not embrace the accountability. Do not take any sort of responsibility for this, and so there is this fine legal line at you're going to have to balance in an sort of public apologies I think. Again, we have found that those three pieces of the apology, an actual apology making good on on making up for it, and explaining how you'll. Not Make the same mistakes in the future, there's still tend to play well in the public realm, but especially in those more one on one or leader to team kinds of conversations where we don't have that sort of exterior fishbowl effect going on, absolutely, what are the messages? We need to tell ourselves to talk ourselves off. That Ledge says I can't be vulnerable I can't look like a goof up. One of them at least it strikes me is to remind myself that if I want my team to be creative and innovative. They have to know that making a mistake is hey. Better to model that than the leader. If I'M EXEMPTING BLAME, I've goofed up. It says you can't do and we can be innovators sway. Thought. On the flip side of apologizing is so being willing to take risks without knowing the outcome of without being sure one hundred percent. Sure we have so much uncertainty avoidance at times in the bigger organization gets. We are not willing to take a risk because we haven't tried it before. We don't know what will happen if you're that leader than everyone will act like you as well, and you'll end up in an organization that plays it safe, but as the said may not be as innovative or Or may not be a a thought leader, because they've always done things a certain way, so a big part of that influence outwards would be able to take risks and being okay with slits. Move Onto. Okay, we have this some sort of credibility and trust established as a leader whether it's rebuilt or built for the first time, because I think a lot of these principles, regardless whether you're trying to rebuild or build initially, they kind of go either. They fall in either category. I, WanNa get to okay, so there's that head argument you know you WANNA win people logically as a leader. You want to win them with with numbers and data and the facts. Where is that line or where do leader start to you know get. The Info that you're Winningham over, but there's also temptation of going overboard with all the truth in the numbers. Were you just kind of like glues? People because they're just too much out there so I have to know how much my audience already knows about this topic. What are their potential objections or concerns about the change? I plan to initiate or whatever the the the influence on trying to have? Have they if I really thought through. Here's where their concerns are. Here's what will make them say. Yes, here's what would make them say. No. He was what would get my team to be resistant to this. If I'm given very careful, thought and consideration and done the homework to get feedback from people about that then I know which pieces of information are necessary to overcome that data that potential objection. And I can just wave the rest of it out because nothing directly to that specific need in my specific audience, and that might change trying to influence Tatyana to do something and I. Know What makes her tick. It is a little different than what makes you tick Matt I'll tell her one thing until you another again. Not Different messages than I'm changing story, but I'll pick different pieces of relevant data for each of you. What makes you? Kinda go woo or even just your communication style. You're a numbers guy, so man I gotta get out stats. The facts, the statistics for you Tatyana I, know her. She's going to be moved when I bring a story and so I'm GONNA use a story example when I'm trying to influence her. The tricky part matters when leaders walk into a room and they know they have a mixed audience, or they do know that they have one certain people over and there others that are that are the hard ones to sell to. And in this case we talk about quite often influenced not just being a one time show. You're not just doing it when you're speaking with the powerpoint, it's a campaign. You start much earlier. I come from a culture where When you want to influence you get started early on, and who's going to be at the meeting I'm Greek and we do a lot of sort of the meeting before the meeting with a meeting after the meeting. And what did you think it takes time? But it's a little bit more strategic, and you're looking at who is in and at the end of the day when everyone sits and here's an idea, they may the ones that are the hard nuts to crack. They've heard it before a little bit, and it's not a surprise to them or someone they. Are they are respectful of they. They mentioned it until they're more influenced in a positive way, so you just have got to be strategic and not assume sameness I always say that because you know it, you can't assume that. They will also know it or think the same way and I want to. You brought up. Some very interesting is that when you come into that mixed room in the mix audience? You'RE GONNA, win some, but at the end of the day to there's just people you're never gonNA win over with the decision. You know so as a leader. I think that's a good question that I think people might wrestle with is when is it? It that point when you decide that okay, you know what I know. I'M NOT GONNA win. Everyone oversight should stop trying and stop trying to beat the dead horse. You know instead take the people who are excited and run run with them. You know what what? Where is that? Point that you just kind of have to say okay? We gotta move in this direction. Have you read our course evaluations mad? I think that I'm kidding. Everybody we cannot I mean that's what we say. something. With didn't tell you but read I'll let you Joe. I do think it's interesting that. Earlier on we can. We can. Admit that we may not be the influence surf for everyone so I think it's important for us to think about who does who is the influence her for those who may not hear it well for me I. I don't have to be the Messenger all the time. I just need to get this done. I just need to get the buy it. I just need to get something accomplished, and so if Tatyana turns out to have more influence in be more of an informal influence or with my direct reports. That I am I just have to get her on board and let her win. Everybody else over. Over, so that's where you start looking at early adopters, who are your informal influencers in your really making your pitch to them and letting them do some of the heavy lifting, but the rest of your team, and then you get to practice what we're preaching of. If we want people to trust us now here, we are having to lead. How are we going to trust someone else to be the Messenger and let go of our control with so many leaders have such a hard time doing absolutely that reciprocity factor trust is real. If I don't trust you, why would you trust me vice versa so? Yeah, so you're! You're absolutely on the something in next. You know what I want to move into. Okay, so we have now. There's that emotion that heartbeat you know where you get people as you said earlier on like, get him in the belly. You know so where two leader start to not become because this one is I, think a little more tricky because you can speak end there's that balance where it becomes very disingenuous or becomes too over the top or becomes like he's just doing it for the flash or look at him or her you know. Where is that line with? How do we lead from the heart? And how do we win that heart without being too much or too disingenuous? Word for you, and that's authenticity that if you are authentic with your message, I even see many leaders quite often that they're not gonna be the the the most emotional Speakers or they're not going to to pull the the vert, best visual language or have the stories. But they are who they are, and they are vulnerable in front of others when they say I'm not sure or I want this to happen in their their authentic selves, we all go back to as you said smelling sort of the fake stuff, and if someone is authentic, and has in means well initially, and maybe with a little bit of coaching and advice from from trusted advisers. They have to go to that. I people will will. Will believe you if they know that you're being your authentic self. If you're speaking a different language or all of a sudden, we see this sometimes with students is to us the faculty. They're very proper, and they're very formal, and then they turn to their colleagues in the classroom, and they may not be as nice and that's people. Notice that we've got to be consistent in our often to city as leaders. I think it's an important that. Be using emotional appeal doesn't mean that I. Myself Am acting super. I'm not weeping. Tears are leading the parade. Necessarily Emotional appeal has a lot to do with a lining non values. So once I understand what you truly value. If I can take whatever it is, I'm trying to influence your the team to believe to do to buy into, and I can show you how that furthers your values. How to lines to your values that in and of itself isn't emotional appeal because your values are emotional to you. In. Brings up an interesting point Tatyana you're referencing I. Mean you don't have to be this extrovert or this extravagant eccentric speaker and I think I think for a lot of people who find themselves or more, maybe a line more than the introverted side, or just very just kind of I just take it as it is, and I'm just I just speak I. Don't really don't feel like they're that emotional person there it can. Can, bring up some well I. Guess I'm just not going to win them at the heart, so you know I want to double down a little bit more into that authenticity part, and how important that is, no matter. If you are that eccentric, energize, you know person who can get in front of a room full, and not sweat, or you're that person who cannot stand you know doing having some sort of leading a conversation. Conversation but yet you still charge to lead Brenda. We've done a lot of work with introversion and extroversion and being able to to lead in the workplace with those I'll speak from a a lead to Brenda to say what about the introverts that may think I can't just be the sage on the stage. Yeah, so the work that we've done is because touchdown partner on lots of projects and consulting work and I'm an. An introvert, a high level introvert, and she is as about as far on the expert scale as you can get, and so a lot of our partnership has been figuring out how to work with each other and to leverage both the strengths that come of introversion and the strengths that come extroversion and one of those strengths, certainly as recognition that her leadership style is way to look very different than mine is an introverts. More likely to lead behind the scenes I'm going to I'm more comfortable with one on one conversations that want to many. And so I'm going to have those behind the scenes conversations that may never culminate in a big team meeting or a big departmental meeting. I think that that introversion. Leadership. Strength is in introspection so I processed internally, which means that some of that audience analysis that we talked about as when to come very quickly and easily for me, because I'm not gonNA Open my mouth until I've had time to really process through. Who am I talking to? What will be motivating to them? Had An extrovert leads a little differently tally. You have the extrovert piece then I think they have to be careful. Because as you see in our balanced to, it would be easy for me. Start talking but I say I'll let you lead because I know that my tendency is to jump in and keep you still processing and not getting a chance to. To speak in that happens. Leaders need to know again. What are some of the tent permits tendencies that they have self awareness, and then what happens to be the case in their teams, so my approach may be a little bit more vocal a little bit more, I'm going to grab the phone and send a message right away, maybe running the risk. Risk of saying something that rubs people the wrong way, and then I better apologize if I do that, but it made look a little different, or I may be thoughtful to say I'm having this inclination to a trusted colleague or someone that understands me and the context and say. Do you think this is the right thing to do? I I've become A. A lot more. I would say strategic about doing that. Just probably because of making that mistake too many times a, but there's benefits to, both in actually some leaders mate as Brenda said, maybe that leader is not the person that needs to to give the message you see in many companies that there's many people that take the stage that share the. The meaning of a message or the why we need to make this happen. They're the experts. The leaders in the company may not be the experts in a certain topic in that gives them more credibility by bringing in the the content experts, touchdown mentioned credibility error experts that they are the experts I think circling all the way back to our conversation about trusting. Trusting credibility. There's two factors that people use to decide if they're going to trust you, Matt, so when I first meet you, I'm going to look at you and decide if you're an expert or not. What town was just saying but I'm also going to decide as your if you have integrity if you have warps or not so warmth and competence here. Here the two factors that we're looking at so I have to decide, are you? Are you going to do what you said you would do are? Are you going to have my best interests at heart, or is this all just taking care of you when you try to influence me as well as does he know what he's talking about. Can he get the? The job done to the expertise, so both of those are important to way when you're when you're deciding, do I have credibility with someone on my team? You need to think about it. In terms of both am I an expert in their eyes, and am I warm enough in there is? We have some great stories about clients that we've worked with WHO? Had, one or the other of those just down Pat, but they lacked the other, so they lacked credibility. Over General Yeah. It's a package deal by back to the conversation in the beginning when we started that first impression comes from warmth, people in those milliseconds decide. Do I even want to give you the time to work with you or be on your team or a one-two to engage a do I like your? Not that, said likeability factor, and some of that I hate to say comes from total non. Non verbals. It could be the way you walk into a room. If you've got your hands full in your blocking yourself in, you're not ready to shake someone's hand, although we can't do too much of that lately, but if you if if you're making eye contact, or if you go and pull your phone out immediately, it's that can warmth in connection that people decide on quickly. Things we say shouldn't matter. It shouldn't matter if I stand up straight or have soup on shirt, or look you in the eye or not, because that's true gauge of what's in my head or Mama expertise, my heart is all about, but people do use them as proxies in those first milliseconds as you pointed out again, this has been Brenda. Billy Hughes and Tatyana Cova both senior lectures for the Kelley School of Business Specializing in Executive, coaching and organizational communication. This has been another episode of the Roi podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley School of business. I'm your host Matt Martel Year on the show. Our mission is to help. Organizations make business decisions. We'll see you next week.
Why your organization needs podcasting | Ep. 64
"The. We ingest media is ever changing just as CD's and DVD's are becoming overshadowed by streaming content. Radio stations, fight the same war with podcasts as consumers. We longed for constantly can enjoy, but we want to enjoy an hour time podcast, popularity skyrocketing. How can our organization's get ahead of the curve and use them toward vantage? Let's get to the podcast. Welcome to another episode of the ROI podcast presented by the Indian university Kelley school of business. I'm your host Martel alongside associate dean Phil Powell. If this is your first time tuning in, we just want to say, thanks for checking us out. We work hard to put out a weekly show that helps organizations make better business decisions. Do you have a topic for us to discuss questions we can answer or against you want to hear from send us an Email to our pod? That's our p. o. d. at IEP dot EDU. Did you know that according to apple, there are currently over five hundred fifty thousand active podcasts around the globe. These shows have produced over eighteen point five million episodes. So for you that have subscribed, we are so honored you chose us and according to a study done by both Nielsen and Edison research sixty four percent of Americans. That's one hundred and eighty million folks are familiar with the term podcast. And forty four percent of the US population or about one hundred twenty four million people have ever listened to a podcast, at least once that's huge. What was once seen as an underground radio scene has evolved into a major industry yet the good news is that there still so much room for growth in this medium. So in honor of international podcast day, we sat down with co, founder of pod, chaser coal, raven a company dedicated to centralizing the podcast content from around the globe Kohl's helping us unpack why every organization should embrace podcasting, whether it's buying at time on a show or creating our own podcast company. It all starts with seeing the shift from following a radio network to following an industry leader regarding radio shows. There are still they're still the same radio shows that have now transitioned over to podcasting, which are still providing kind of the same general format. But what I'm seeing is that you find prof. At schools or you find industry experts on a specific topic, talk about things like diet and weight loss, or fashion, or anything. And instead of following maybe a radio network, your following influence or or an insurer leader, you're seeing the same shift with even people on Instagram and YouTube. They're, they're supplementing their brand with with podcasting on a very specific niche topic, which is why you can find podcast about anything. Once you understand that and see see the shift, then I think that you can. You can think of new ways to leverage the medium and what better way to leverage this medium than thinking about how listeners take in podcast content. This is a very intimate space. Think about it. Those who listen either wear headphones or plug it into their car stereo system audiences are engaged. They have to go the extra mile to access the podcast. They listen with purpose and attention as. Cole said, and by the way, Kohl's Kelly school grad because shows are extremely niche audience members come excited about an episode. So the question is, how can our businesses or organizations leverage this? It starts with advertisements, of course, like radio, we went to buy commercial time according to the interactive advertising bureau, Edison research sixty five percent of listeners are likely to buy a product after hearing an ad. In a podcast. Repeat that sixty five percent of listeners are likely to buy a product after hearing the add on a podcast and from what I'm hearing and some other articles and actually reading. Some are saying, this is like the holy grail of demographics to market too because you have such a high conversion rate. So our first thing as an organization we can do in order take advantage of the podcast medium. It just get in early on these advertisements. Just the awareness for the term podcasting or the number of people who have listened to podcast in the last month has grown by double digit percentages in the last. Few years it's gone from in the teens to now nearly thirty percent of people listen to podcasts or say, they listen to podcast on a regular basis, but I think that as industry, leaders become more aware of impact podcasting is having and how they can reach also niche audiences because through through podge Acer or through through other means, if you search for a very specific topic on something that you wanna learn about, you can find something on somebody in the world of podcasting has talked about what you wanna learn about. So Phil, I'm not one for buying into commercials. I watch TV I see infomercials and it almost turns me away from some products because they're painting, be too good to be true. I like knowing data. I like hearing from actual people who have used the product, it works or I, I need to make a connection with the brand or understand their the reasoning for putting this product, not just I want to sell it to you because your person that would buy it. So for me. We recently the only time I've actually bought a product have been through podcast ads. In fact, I just recently bought a leadership book because I heard the author speak as a guest on a leadership podcast that I follow. Not only was I engage with the conversation. I was moved and compelled to buy the book. So as part of the sixty five percent likely to buy a product from podcast ads, this is huge for business. You know if I'm a business owner, listen to this podcast trying to expand my sales going. Oh, wow, what an opportunity. But of course, like anything else math is has to be done the right way. You know, you're examples. Great. Here's a show that you listen to for personal growth. You made the choice to plug in and listen, you gain knowledge you were seeking and they offered you a product that takes you to the next level which you bought, which complements the reason why listen to the podcast. So as organizational leaders, we have to be strategic and how we market in this medium. This is. A very loyal group that listens. It's got to be spot on what you're offering. It's all about finding the right niche audience to cater to. We have to find the shows who have an audience that fit our demographic clients, very specific demographics. However, if we offer a product for everyone then trying to get at time on the major podcast networks, maybe a better option, traditional niche podcasts not good for mass market product. Plus it doesn't come across as thin anyway. So if you jump on this opportunity early enough, you could be the lead sponsor for a show. For example, the incredibly popular podcast show cereal is sponsored by mail chimp who's nineteen. Second ads have become as recognizable as the show itself with so many diverse and growing shows a great demand for advertisement which helps get your product out at a much lower price. Another thing to look at is just the advertising dollars moving toward it. If you look at podcasting as a whole compared to radio as a whole, the cost to reach people through podcasting. Is right now a tenth of the price of radio, mostly just because of a lack of organise people. It's such a new thing, but you see major brands advertising podcast and and basically taking it over here. The same ads on every single podcast, they they wouldn't have been doing that for the last three years. If it hadn't worked really well. This is just one and the most obvious way to take advantage of the podcast medium the second way. And the way we're going to really unpack is to create your own show as an organization. We're gonna explore three takeaways on why your organization needs to start podcasting. The first reason why is to help your market learn more about your company and Dana deeper understanding of your industry. You can use podcasts as more than just an advertising platform. If you want to get into podcasting, you don't have to pay fifteen or twenty dollars CPM to advertise on one of the major podcasts. You can start your. Own, and it's not that expensive all use microphone and some editing software and maybe pay somebody to outsource that. You either plenty of services out there that do that in as long as you have a clear goal in a vision for what you want to get out of it. That's absolutely essential. Just make a podcast for the sake of making podcasts. There are too many of those out there, but if you have a clear vision for what you want to get out of it, and then there's really no downside. It's just a supplement to all the other marketing and media that you're putting out there because people want to consume content in in different ways. Now, we've started to see you major brands like EBay has their own podcast. McAfee has their own podcast. All these all these big brands have their own podcast because they see it as as a way to reach reach their audience in an immoral Ganic way because the stories they're telling on their podcasts are just selling the EBay brand, necessarily. It's telling the story about how a mom and pop shop owner has transition. Nd from brick and mortar business to any business. You know, it's it's telling real stories of real people instead of just advertising people. So I would say, if you get into podcasting, it shouldn't at all be about you or your brand. It should be one hundred percent about the guests that you have on or about some very valuable piece of content that you can deliver for free to your audience that they're going to really enjoy engage with and that that's something that you can. You can share that's going to get likes. It's going to get shares. It's going to get in front of your audience simply because it's it's valuable and not just another. Another billboard, the Kelley school of business launched this podcast in April two thousand seventeen for some very specific reasons. First of all, we understood that our market, especially for those seeking an MBA or other graduate degrees. They take in podcast like water and especially want podcast that give them personal guidance on how. Elevate their career, make them more productive, make them more effective leaders. So we've made sure that our content both showcases research that our faculty are doing that translates immediately into the work environment to make our listeners more successful. We wanted to tell the stories of entrepreneurs and of very successful businesses that redefined their marketplace that change the conversation, how deliver the good or service in their market. Those are very inspiring stories. And we also liked to highlight thought leaders who are on the cusp of new insights from the data and new observations from out there that maybe people don't understand leads to better practice. And again, we want to keep this practical. We want to make sure that our listeners can listen to the podcast walk into work, walk into their business and immediately start to apply those principles. And I think that's what helped drive our growth. And it comes back to the mission of the Kelley school of business. Which is to graduate talent and disseminate knowledge that makes companies globally competitive. And I think to as organizational leaders just for starting a podcast, it could help us here ourselves speak about why our organization exists. It forces us to be clear and concise more speaking, an educating our market than if we were just to write it up on a board or have it in an E mail document or somewhere else. It's digestible allows our listeners to really connect with what we're doing, and it gives us organization leaders an opportunity to make that intimate personal connection with the podcast. So the second reason why you organize ation should start a podcast is to have a reason to connect with major leaders within your industry. So when you say I have a podcast you want to be on it people know what that means. People didn't know at that five or ten years ago, they thought that, you know, I'm going to go interview in this guy's garage, but now it's a serious thing. If if you're going to be on somebody's podcast, that's almost an honor now. So. Like if you work with with a business or an organization in your part of the marketing department or PR, whatever. I think it's a great decision to make a podcast because you can you can connect with people outside of your organization. If you want to maybe use it as a new sales channel or sales funnel, you can as the VP of sales for a company used that as an opportunity to reach out to the organization's, hey, you wanna be on my podcast and talk about SEO talk about, you know, new ways that your team has been effective in cold calling. You know, you just just different things and not only is that creating really good content that is going to help people find you online. It's now you've built a relationship with that person that you just interviewed that maybe you had no other reason to reach out to them before, but now you have a great reason. Now you have a reason to talk to them and it's more than just just a cold outreach. It's offering them an opportunity to to do something to help them to instead of just helping yourself. Slim, ask you as associate dean of the school. Talk about that. Relationship. He stat how it's benefited. You just building that relationship over an interview because it's really a win win. Because here they are sharing their ideas, sharing some learning expertise, sharing something, far listeners and helping them. And at the same time you're able to build a relationship because you're having a conversation as the cost of college. Education has gone up. Matt society is making universities more countable to the value that they deliver. One of the complaints that we hear about higher Ed is that universities are not accessible while the podcast reverses that, right. The Kelley school has a great reputation globally nationally locally here in Indianapolis. And what I like about the podcast is sort of opens up our doors and says, come on in, tell us your story, and we've got this compendium of stories that accumulate over time and some of these podcasts I have instructors using in their class. So it's just a win, win, win, win, win. It's organization a pod. Cast create so many benefits that only to drive visibility marketplace, but just to lift morale to bring in partners, give them a chance to share their ideas. It's just a great way to build community. So the third reason why every organization should start a podcast is it really helps you engage your employees. I think it's a great decision to make a podcast because you can connect with people within your organization in a new way. So where these companies like Salesforce, they've got thousands and thousands of employees. It gives the marketing PR management away to engaged employees in a different way, like having a podcast about the culture of the company, they bring it, bring them into their office and talk about that. This becomes an easy way to speak with familiar language about your company culture, and it allows your employees to connect with your leadership on their time. It also creates actionable talking points for managers with their team members. Keeping the company especially grows. On the same track and it can access conversations on their time. This is what makes pout cast powerful. So let's recap. Podcasting has exploded in popularity over the past few years, giving organizations in offer -tunities to grow as well. The most obvious way is to pay for advertisement space on popular ships with sixty five percent again with sixty five percent of listeners likely to buy a product from podcast, and this is a Cording to interactive advertisement bureau and Edison research. This seems like a no brainer. However, your organization can also gain more benefits by starting your own podcast. Many major companies like EBay in McAfee use these mediums to create organic connections with their market by telling personal stories, not only promoting their brand with success. I, this allows your market access to education about your organization or your industry with a microphone and editing software. The cost for podcasting is next to none. Just remembered episodes need to be all about your guest or a valuable piece of information. People can walk. Away with not a platform for your brand promotion. Second podcast allow us access to high level guests industry leaders or government officials. We would not be able to get otherwise. This gives them away to get their message out while giving us opportunity to have their attention and build a relationship. Finally, this can also be great way to engage our own employees, whether it's building our culture, educating them on our vision or keeping everyone to speed podcast demand. So we don't have the headache of trying to schedule everyone into a meeting at the same time. It also allows our managers to have talking points, but their team increasing their influence and leadership within the organization. If even join our podcast, let us know be surely review on your favorite app if you'd like to get a hold of us, send us an Email at ROI pod. That's our p. o. d. at UP, y dot EDU. This has been another episode of ROI podcast presented by the Indiana University. Kelley school of business. I'm your host Mortell alongside associate dean Philpott where we work hard to put out weekly episodes that helps organizations make better business decisions. We'll see you next week.
How to onboard new employees and keep everyone engaged, virtually | Ep. 153
"What are we anticipating that our staff are going to be dealing in a negative way if that's Zoom fatigued or if that's compassion fatigue or if that's burn out from work more hours and not shutting it off. And so I think as a leader we should always be trying to anticipate what is around the corner and frankly asking the staff. How can I how can I make your life better or easier? Welcome to another episode of the ROI podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley School of Business. I'm your host Matt Martella here on the show. Our mission is to help organizations make Better Business decisions. So what does this mean for you? Well, if you're an organizational leader, maybe someone who's interested in exploring entrepreneurship or just looking to grow as a leader within your within your own organization wage. We exist to help you get there. So if you have a question that you're wrestling with maybe there's a topic of discussion happening within your office you love for us to explore. Maybe you just would love to get some of our faculty and hear what some of the latest trends are within the business business world or you just know if someone who is making awesome guess for our show. Send us an email to our oh iPod. That's r o m i p o d e p u i well organizational culture is definitely been evolving over these past few months as we've all either been working from home been partly at work hybrid, whatever the case maybe there's no question that we're all sitting on our Zoom meetings. We're all sitting at home. We have kids running around. We have juice so much bleeding into our personal lives that sometimes it can be overwhelming or you know, let's say there's a lot of people out here who may have lost their job unfortunately during dead. During this covid-19 endemic and fortunately maybe they found another job in the midst of it. However, like with all new jobs. It's so hard as is to assimilate to learn who these people are that you're starting to work with to understand the culture and just to find your place in your new company. Well today we want to explore a lot of these HR topics in a visual world. I am honored to welcome Chelsea do Kate the founder of Red Envelope Consulting whose mission is helping organizations. Go from chaos to Clarity. She is also an Alum here at the Kelley School of Business at IUPUI Chelsea, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much. I'm excited about this. So that's you know, that's the big question right now is we're all doing so much virtually, you know, we just did an episode a couple of weeks ago talking about there's just, you know fatigued of you know from zoom and there's this it's hard to even separate, you know work log, From personal life now because for many of us the our office is on our kitchen table our office is right next to our bedroom. So it's so easy just to walk past and you know, you'll want to go answer one more email at 8:00 at night. And so there's so many new challenges. I guess a lot of us are learning but I think a big part of it is, you know for people who are trying to get back into the job market maybe are just getting hired into these new organizations. I mean that process is daunting already for a new hire trying to fit in trying to know who sitting next to them. But then a throw a digital element where you're not physically in the same space, you know, let's start here. Let's talk about you know, what are some of these HR challenges that are being seen given that so much of our Workforce has remote. Yeah. I mean, I think that you're seeing a variety of things. I mean I think from The leadership standpoint for organizations that have previously been located on site or together as a team. I think at first, you know, there was this fear of them. Are they going to be able to get the job done and are they are they really working? And I think that fear has quickly turned over to our they working too much and they working too many hours are they able to disconnect right? And so I think you're saying leadership consider those challenges and figure out how am I going to care for my team in this, you know remote environment. So it's been interesting to see the concerns of leadership just evolve and so now we're getting questions. Like, how do we engage our team? How do we make sure that they're mentally strong and it's great dialogue and I'm loving the compassion and the thought process so absolutely timely and important and so dead. Some of the things that that we've seen are just offering more resources and whether that's you know through their benefit plan that they're on and just reiterating the access to you know, free virtual counseling. We're also seeing, you know, more engagement in terms of appreciation gifts. So, you know, they'll do fun days where it's popcorn day and everybody gets a bag of popcorn and deliver to their front door, you know, so we're seeing fun stuff like that too. We're seeing challenges done virtually. So it is kind of neat to see how how creative they're getting with the engagement piece and it's interesting to watch because for a lot of people, you know who are starting to get hired in the midst of this pandemic and you know, maybe they're not quite meeting in person yet. So they're having to go through the onboarding process digitally a.m. You know remotely which you know for for some organizations. I mean like we were talking about on the phone before this interview for some organizations. They've been doing this way before the pandemic. I mean, there's organizations that have been moving in a direction of starting to go totally digital and you can work full time from the comfort of your own home. But now that so many other organizations have been forced into this space down there trying to kind of catch up to what's happening. So starting with the you know, the challenge for an organizational leader who's wanting to make sure that those that they hire feel a part of the team feel welcomed into a culture and feel, you know, like they can be a part of of what's Happening without physically seeing, you know people in your office, you know, talk about some some tips or strategies that that you would offer organizational leaders to be mindful of and how people should be on boarded. You know when I'm seeing and and what I recommend is that organizations Truong To create these cohorts. So, you know, if you've got a new hire starting one week and then one new hire the next week, why not combine it and have the two together. So at least they feel like they've got a. And somebody that's that's going through at the same time in the same way. So really encouraging that togetherness and and studying some time lines and schedules so that maybe it's the same thing. Monday of every month is when they on board all the new staff so they can go through it together as a team as a cohort, you know, certainly having some sort of mentorship program I think is really important. It doesn't have to be anything crazy form formal but you know somebody that's checking in besides their boss, right just to say, how's it going? Are you figuring out rules? You know, how can I help and speaking of tools? I think you know, it's always been oppressed friends to have oh the tools and Technologies. You ready for a new hire on day one, right? Well, I think in this virtual environment, it's it's it's almost required for that person to have all very equipment at least two days before the first day right give them a chance to get fully up and operated turn on the computer plug it in and get things ready and going on and off also looking at utilizing tools like slack for communication, you know, some sort of internal way, you know and outside of maybe a chat or something like that, you know, and I guess one of the problems that can Arise at times is you know, they're just like that disconnect from from Humanity or that disconnect because you're sitting on them as umm call constantly or you know, maybe you feel as an individual just feels guilty because like you said, I think when you start a new job as a person coming in and it's been on, you know something Some companies have been graded on boarding in other companies have been terribly onboarding you just at times feel guilty because you feel like you should be doing something and yet there's nothing else quite to do yet. So how does how does an individual or organizational leader begin to frame some conversations or how what expectations should be started from from a hiring managers perspective, especially now that you know individuals who may be working at home and just feel guilty because they don't feel like they're contributing. They're not doing much yet. It's just part of the process just having a check in calendar that says hey, I'm going to check in on on this regular schedule. So I thought maybe every day at 3:00 or you know, whatever works for that employee and and the leader but also encouraging that employee that if the leaders going to have assumed If let's say a client or a customer go ahead and just you know, let that new employee pop in and and Shadow and kind of see, you know, get a glimpse of beyond their role. Right? So just giving that opportunity and thinking about you know, if I if I were knew what what would I like to see given the environment we're in and one thing to to kind of go out further with that. I love how you are trying to think about bringing people in like, how do I bring them into what I'm doing to show them you know with this company is about in the values in the meetings and how we operate and what some of the language we use, you know, especially using zoom and having those capabilities where people can just a pop right into a meeting and then pop pop right out, you know, so going into what we were talking about earlier, you know, there are some organizations that have been doing this for quite a while. They've been digital for you know before the pandemic song. That's been the Bedrock for their organization. You know, what are some of the things that they've done that have garnered some success with with regards to onboarding or you know, how have you consulted firms in that way to help Garner more success, you know in the digital onboarding space, you know, I think that I think before we get to the what it's important to talk about the Wi-Fi, so why have companies previously been operating this way and I think the main reason is is the availability of talent. So the availability of talent really drives the business and so, you know the tech industry, for example, there's just not enough software Engineers, which is not and wage, um companies have to get creative. So they you know, you see some of these tech companies, you know, we don't care where you work because it opens up that that talent pool. So now I'm not looking. Indianapolis, I'm looking in you know, the Eastern time zone or whatever and so just opens up those talent pool. So it you know, I think that's part of the reason why these companies would have been operating like that is because there's just not enough people local and I don't think that's just any tablets. I I think that's a lot of communities and even the bigger cities home. So what are you seeing, you know as they are kind of broadening and opening up these Talent pools, you know, what what are ways that they're able to you know, pull in and get people to feel a part of you know, that organization when you you know, you're a Silicon Valley tech company in California and you just made a higher in Nashville, Tennessee or Indianapolis, Indiana yet. You know, you're there is an expectation. Okay. Hey, how do you want to feel invite others that are you seeing it more of a of a demand where you know, just people who are entering the virtual Workforce really are just like hey, look I'm just coming in to do my job. You know, I'm totally fine with chrome. In but hey, I want to get out and enjoy my family as soon as 5:00 hits. It starts with starts with what kind of culture you want to set and so as leadership teams determine what kind of culture they said or want to set you know, it's really important to say. You know when we have Team meetings, we're not going to have some people in the room and some people on Zoom. It's going to be all Zoom, you know, so I don't care if you're sitting in your Cube at headquarters or if you're at home. So just laying the wrong field so it doesn't feel like anyone is at an advantage whether they're present at HQ or wherever they are in the world. So I think I think it's it's that expectation. That's also the messaging of so that it's fully inclusive regardless of you know, how the person is operating. So I think those things are important and just to set from the very beginning like we're going to operate on a moat culture and the end so everything's going to be based on that just to give you a quick example. I was on a call yesterday and we had you know, twenty five people in a room and then we had 10 people on the zoom and the zoom froze up so they they were at a disadvantage right? So they didn't hear all the information they weren't able to access it but yet the people that work for them. We present were and that's that's an issue for me cuz that's that's not creating a similar experience. Sure. And I mean, you know for for one who's been in meetings when you know, some people are they you know in some people are in person there is when you are remote and you see people in person you do feel like you're missing out you do feel like oh shoot like was I supposed to be there man? There's some some guilt that comes in there like yeah, you know, what am I doing the right thing sitting out, you know, which I think is important to address, you know, it's and then I think that ties into you know, the organizational leader especially early in the onboarding, you know, like you were saying I love train of thought of you know setting that culture early how important is it for an organizational leader, especially now to be involved with in the onboarding process to you know, especially not being able to have just call a quick meeting or say Hey, you know, we're going to do this training schedule in person from this time this time. We're going to hear from our organizational leaders. You know, what what messages How do they approach you know people who are coming on their team? Whether that be the CEO whether that be just the hiring managers whether that be direct reports, you know, whoever that person is. What does that interaction look like and how much more important is it? Especially now for them to stay engaged with with new hires. You know, I think what you're seeing in the onboarding space is, you know, historically onboarding was just hey fill out this paperwork and here's the employee handbook, right? And so we've quickly divided into pre-boarding and onboarding and so pre-boarding has now replaced maybe that more traditional on birth experience. So when the employee shows up all that other stuff has been done all that other administrative stuff. And so now onboarding is truly, how can we get you a quick trained up ready to go Knowing Your Leader knowing the way that your leader operates their preferences in terms of communication, right so long It's just changed over the years and I think that you know, historically employees have had to just figure it out and employees are demanding more. They they want more information and they want it quickly. So I think it is a nice blend of hey watch some of these videos and also here's an opportunity to get some face time with the CEO which you may not get for several more months, you know ever again. So like this is how much our CEO values you and the talent that we have and that we bring in so we're going to give you some one-on-one time right? It's not just you know, this onboarding process. Obviously, there's people working from home or finding a like we talked about a couple of weeks to get their findings challenges that we never thought would be there in the first place because when you you know, move everyone or move the majority of your Workforce from in person to age Being at home, you know, we're seeing like like I said earlier we're seeing it's hard sometimes to disconnect it's hard sometimes to just work, you know be tempted to work a couple more hours, you know, just sit just to get ahead or you know, or to be honest and the opposite and you know, some people just miss the interactions that they've had with their with with their desk mate or the you know, their their cubicle Mater office person, whoever that is and then that's also causing some, you know, a lot of mental, you know unwellness because there's they don't have that quick. I just need a break I'm standing up. Oh, hey, look, you're hopping to happen to stand up. Let's just have some small talk. Now. Everything is so gotta get unzoom. Gotta Mike like so micromanage with time schedule. So often has a tional leaders and as a consultant yourself, you know, how do you encourage organizational leaders in HR leaders to open their eyes to see what's happening and how do people begin to start off? Making this touch points with everyone in the organization. Well, I think one thing that we could all do better at As Leaders is anticipating pain, right? So what what are we anticipating that our staff are going to be feeling in a negative way. So if that's Zoom fatigued or less compassion fatigue or if that's burn out, you know from from working more hours and not shutting it off. And so I think as a leader we should always keep trying to anticipate what is around the corner and and frankly asking the staff having those regular check-ins to say like, how can I how can I make your life better life easier? What is it that you need? And sometimes they're not able to vocalize it right or express what they need and so as a leader, I think it's really your job to again try and anticipate wage. Try to read it and think okay. They've just went through a major change and how they do their job. What are some of the potential symptoms that would would come from that change and then it's raining into that. Right? And it's leaning into what can we do to help out with mental illness. Is that having a speaker? Is that giving them a coach or you know an internal Mentor like what what is that? What are some of the things you know, you're noticing or seeing or you're helping companies kind of work through as a consultant that you know, obviously they you know, like case in point. The zoom fatigue is something that we never thought we'd start seeing and now now there's terms for like Zoom fatigue people are getting burnt out but what are maybe some of the more untalked about or wage issues with whether that be a mental health whether that be just connectivity whatever whatever those issues are. What are some of the more deeper lesson. Smoking issues that you're being being able to notice and starting to having to help consult companies in engaging their team virtually. Well, you know, I'm seeing all kinds of things and I'll types of pressures right? So everything typically comes back to some sort of pressure external or internal and what has been some of the month the solutions the Creative Solutions that have come out of this is you know, I'm seeing some of our clients, you know, they give every Friday afternoon off now it's like hey by 1 p.m. On Friday once you off I don't want you know, what you on at all if I see that you're online. We have a discussion. I'm seeing employers say, you know, take an hour to go work out or get a massage, you know, whatever that is a week or even more than that. So, you know, we're seeing some we're seeing some really cool things come out of birth. But you know again, I think it's it's just trying to anticipate that pain and then figure out some options one of the ways that we kind of stay fresh on what's going on in the market is where part of a group of HR professionals and so we get to hear about other problems outside of our just our clients. So I encourage leaders to be be part of you know, external networks to stay fresh on ideas and things like that for team leaders for CEOs. Maybe you're a small company and you're able to be, you know, Hands-On or maybe you're part of a large organization you have so many, you know team leads and project leads kind of running and staying connected. What are some signs of you know team fatigue of of Zoom fatigue of you know, people who are just you can see they're just starting to check out or there's just something that's not clicking. You know, what are some of those signs that organizational leaders can start looking into and then off How do you begin the process of addressing that to make sure that you know people feel that they're not just being you know that there's I guess there's some sort of empathetic just hey meeting you where you are and I want to help you through this. The biggest sign is seeing seeing your staff were caught hours. Like, you know, it's flexibilities. Great life can also cause people pain when they don't have a routine. So if you're noticing emails from the middle of the night or late or super early think that's definitely a sign or symptom and it could be that they're just doing that because they more flexibility and freedom to and they're quite happy, but I think that's something that's always like what's going on here other other Six Flags, I guess that I would say or you know, just maybe participating but the cameras off or Showing up late to zoom meetings, you know things like that. I think I think the biggest issue is that the people that aren't working. I think it's quite the opposite if there's people that working too much what are ways, you know as an organization a leader because sometimes it can be a sensitive subject because it's not just a performance issue but there's it's probably something more underlying like whether that be you know, early people just starting to fall into depression from just being, you know, isolated in their walls sometimes or its people are just you know, frustrated and anxious with what's going on because there's a meeting after Zoom meeting after Zoom meeting and they can't catch a break or you know, so as an organizational leader as a team leader as a mentor, even you know, how do you begin to approach those conversations often with that individual in a way that helps them to get out of this this quote unquote Funk that they're in or just being encouraged. You know, how do those khong? Stations begin to take place. It's the b word its boundaries, right? And encouraging those boundaries and and encouraging the autonomy to set those boundaries. So, you know, if if somebody on my team says hey, I do my my best work between 9 and 3, you know, and I want to do strictly email outside of those hours. That's that's fine. Go for it. I'll work with that schedule, right? If you're telling me your brain is fully functioning from 9 to 3. Why why not lean into that strength, right? Why would I want to compromise and try to push my agenda on my life my things outside of that timeframe, so setting boundaries with not only your boss but your peers your customers, you know, your customers don't need to know that you're not available from 8 to 9. They need to know when you are available. So, you know just goes back to take some ownership of your schedule and set those boundaries and finally as begin to wrap up, you know, as someone who runs their own organization is a you know involved in giving an in Consulting other companies and in HR related topics, you know for you. What do you find that's most successful for you to disconnect kind of recharge refocus. How do you you, you know, get past the zoom burn out in the you know email burnout and the being confined within your own four walls at home. You know, what are some strategies that you utilize to help you stay mentally sharp. Yeah, you know, I'm a big fan of scheduling a little breaks off and um scheduling those breaks in between meetings. So instead of meetings being an hour-long they can be 45 minutes, right? Anything should be able to be done in 45 minutes and and you know, That's my opinion. But and then giving you those 15 minutes to grab some water or snack or you know walk around your house get some exercise get outside edge, you know, so I think you know, we all have that ability to kind of design whatever works best for us. But yeah, certainly if you have a leader that's like are you okay right off me to take a step back and figure out what do I need to be doing differently here again, Chelsea Duque. She's the founder of Red Envelope Consulting whose mission is helping organizations. Go from chaos to Clarity. She's also an Alum at IUPUI Kelley School of Business Chelsea. Thank you so much for being our guest here on the podcast. Thank you. This is just another episode of the ROI podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley School of Business. I'm your host and Martella here on the show. Our mission is to help organizations wage. Better Business decisions. We'll see you next week.
5 proven tips for startup business success | Ep. 62
"Each company has a starting point no matter what organization. One person had an idea and turned into a success story. Some rose to the top while others fell into the shadows on this episode were sitting down with two onto preneurs who pulled back the curtain of their organization and gave us a front row seat into their startup process to help our new business become a legacy. Let's get to the podcast. Welcome to another episode of the ROI podcast presented by the Indian University School of business. I'm your host Matt Martel alongside the associate dean of academic programs. Mr. Phil Powell for those of you joining us for the first time. We just wanna say, welcome to the show. We put out a weekly episode that helps organizations make better business decisions. And if you could do is huge favor, we would be honored if you'd hit that subscribe. But that way you can get the latest content. The moment it's released. Also, if you would like for us to discuss a topic leave a comment were recommended, guess for our show, we would love to hear from you. Just send us an Email at ROI pod. That's r. i. p. o. d. at UP you I dot EDU again, that's r. i. p. o. d. at UP you, I dot EDU. All right. How many times have we had an idea and thought that could make a great business. Or how many times have we thought about branching off starting our own company? Well, for those of us who are looking where to start today's episode is for you. You know, Matt, I think those thoughts have run through every listeners mind. In many times, you get these ideas and they seem to basic and you say to yourself, of course, that's been done and you move on to something else yet. A lot of the time, those assumptions are misplaced. People may have the same thoughts, but they don't act upon them according to the bureau of labor statistics. The number of established companies less than one year old is the highest. It's been since the great recession of two thousand eight. The job creation. These companies create is increasing the represented a larger and larger share of our labor force, and we were seeing a lot more companies entering the market than exiting it's reflective of innovation. It reflective of the impact of new technologies and new processes on our. Economy according to the small business administration companies with fewer than five hundred employees provided sixty four percent of the new jobs in the economy, the numbers don't lie. So it's clear to see that these ideas that enter people's minds and that when those folks have the bravery to become an entrepreneur, an act upon those ideas, they create solutions to consumer problems which drives business growth, which drives prosperity in the US economy. So the question becomes, where do we start? How do we take this idea from conception to the market? We sat down with two bright minds at real Inc that's real why, and see a real time video platform that instantly connects real estate professionals with prospects to tour space co, founder and CEO, Matt, y, RIC and director of operations. Jordan easily took us through their hard-fought entrepreneurial journey. Here's Matt Weinrich. I knew alternately my end goal somewhere in my life would be to start a business have company on my own in. And so I was always thinking incident bits of ideas and opportunities and what I was moving from Purdue up to Chicago. I looked at over forty different places to live in person up there, six weekends in Rhode look at properties and half of them. I would walk in and turn around and walk out within seconds. I instantly knew I wasn't going to be living there very frustrating process broken process. And so I started looking at the process very critically of what could have been done differently. What I could have done had or used to streamline that. And it just so happened that may of two thousand eleven was when FaceTime came out. And so just of put together would've absolutely had my agent. Walked me through some of those properties virtually while sitting on campus Purdue and I could have knocked out half of my trips up to Chicago. So it was one of those what those light bulb moments where I saw gap in the market, saw an opportunity started shooting a few things around talk to some eight. Agents and brokers that were in my network already started asking them about this sort of experience with clients if they felt that pain point as an agent started talking to some of my friends on the consumer side of as well. And just identifying those initial triggers, is this an opportunity beyond just myself it's impacting our industry? Is this impacting just my demographic? How big is this? And how far does it go? And I kind of sat on the idea for a little bit for about two years while I was a consultant. And eventually I just saw that pain point iterative time and time again, especially as a consultant, we were traveling on the road Monday through Thursday, Monday through Friday, every single week for the job. One of the hardest things I saw my colleagues go through was trying to find a place to live because they couldn't physically be there. And so finally got to the point where I could not stop thinking about the idea. I knew that if. I tried to go go it alone. It probably wouldn't get to where it needed to be. So a work of started talking to one of my then colleagues on my now co founder of the business. He instantly clicked with the idea and we were in my apartment the next weekend, white boarding and figuring out the business plan for those unfamiliar with real Inc. Again, you spell that real Wyan c. this great startup provides live and edited real estate tours that's available through mobile device or computer. Basically, you can turn apartment or house anywhere in the world and apartment agent or real estate agent using their own phone can walk you through the property and the saves the client time and resources. Especially they live far away as mad. The CEO and co founder said the Genesis of this company started with Matt's annoyance. He was wanting to relocate to Chicago, this added miles to his car. It cost him time and money. And lots of frustration, trying to coordinate schedules. He found himself disappointed the whole process, and he thought there's got to be a better way, not even mitts. His business idea seems like something a million people could have thought of an started, but they didn't. He was annoyed with how he was shopping for housing. So he made a solution that's now become a successful business. So the first t takeaway, when bringing your business idea to life is embraced the reality that your idea is not to simple. The number one question I got when I was building this company was well, why wouldn't someone just pull out FaceTime and do FaceTime. It's a free solution. It's on their phone. All ready and the. That was a big. That was always a question in the back of my mind. Is there enough of an opportunity here that people will pay for it and pay for a built for real estate solution? There are so many, somebody constraints with FaceTime. It's only one to one. It's apple only as soon as it's done. It's gone. It's reliant on memory, all of our life tours saved or recorded to the cloud. And here's a big differentiator that sets Matt the CEO and co, founder of real Inc apart from any others. He was not discouraged by the fact that there was a simple solution that simple solution could have been. Why can't someone just use FaceTime in the moment to solve this issue? Matt saw business opportunity when if you jump on the video call, but then he went to watch later. FaceTime can solve that. What if anyone with any phone device could watch in real time? What if multiple people wanted to jump in on the same time and provide comment, basic FaceTime didn't provide that solution in these permutations of how this technology could be used. Used in this idea could be used was business model instead of letting others tell us why an idea won't work or why it's already been done. Matt shows us that that criticism or skepticism can be used to our advantage inside those pushback lie the keys of differentiation and differentiation leads to a successful business solution. The second takeaway to bring your business idea to life is to really take your time and do extensive research. One thing I do credit in those early early months was taking our time, so we took our time and I think one of our earliest investors actually our first investor in the business, he actually cut us a check, no strings attached before anything was really formed and gave us the advice of don't build anything. Go out, go to conferences, run focus groups. Just talk to your target audience before you build anything understand the personas, understand the needs and the opportunities. And so really, that's what we did. Did for the first ten twelve months before we even thought about building a product. We specked things out specked out what the product would be, what the messaging would be go to market strategy, all of that. But ultimately he was listening to the market and figuring out what this company needed to be to have a market market opportunity and a chance at surviving. And so once we got to a point where we were very confident in what we needed to build and what would drive value for customers. We brought on a technical technical member of the team built out and EP minimum viable product just enough to get in the hands of some test users and real, really hit the ground running from there. That was alternately what gave us comfort in knowing that there was a valid opportunity here focus on the customer focus on New York clients, your market, and listen. To them, they will show you the path that you need to be on. They will tell you what your product needs to be. What needs to do. Their opinion is ultimately the one that values most not even investors and all that. It's your customer. So you need to be listening to. We need to remember that creating a business takes a lot of time. We have to embrace that truth and feel comfortable with it. So if you're going to be in the trenches, for the long haul, we better make sure we know who we are reaching and more importantly, we want to know what the consumer really needs, not what we think they need. We need to put our ego to the side. We're here to serve the customer, not ourselves this part of forming your startup. For me, your business is like building the foundation of the house, though the aesthetics are not pleasing, nor does it show a homes character. But without that foundation, every piece of wood brick furnishings your curtains, everything falls apart like a house of cards and. A summer breeze. We cannot underestimate the step in the process of build the house nor in building a business. So once we embrace the idea that are is not too simple, then take extensive time to research. The third key takeaway for bringing our business idea to life is to drown out the noise. That was one thing early on in Chicago when we were starting our business that I felt like there was a lot of noise. I feel like there are a lot of people in Chicago in particular that we're playing startup that were playing entrepeneurship Zing clearly weren't going to go anywhere, but there are just so many vents so many places to be so many scenes v. in that ultimately was distraction early on, and that's quieter here in Indianapolis. They're still great ecosystems and meet ups in co, working spaces where you can be in community with those other people going through the same seasons, but it's focused on hard work. It's focused on results. It's focus on actually growing building that ultimately looking back, it just pulled us. Away from stuff that we could have been working on could have been doing good, been listening to the market and building product and things like that. We must stay grounded in the reality of what we need to deliver for our customer. Entrepreneurship is all about creative solution to a problem and delivering it through our enterprise. We cannot lose sight of that. There will be times throughout our entrepreneurs journey when we get distracted startup, hang out groups or investors trying to steer the direction, the company we need to listen, but we still need to stay focused. Even our closest advisors will offer solutions that will not work. We're not saying to avoid all these things or not listen or hide in a closet and that look at the sunlight and just focus on your product development. What we need to do is understand our why. Remember why we decided to start why the world needs our solution and why we are putting this much work into gambling on our passion and creating the solution are y become. Are anchor and protection. When the noise and distractions come are, why axes, a filter for every decision that we make Simon cynic offers an incredible Ted talk on this entitled, how great leaders inspire action. If you have not listened to it, we highly recommend it. So third, most watched Ted talk in history. So once we run out the noise around us and stay focused on our conceptual business idea. The fourth key takeaway to creating a successful startup is to hone in on a super specific market segment. At the beginning, we wasted a lot of time we, we were chasing every shiny object, and we didn't really hone in on a particular market, a particular segments where we may have been seen success, but we could also have success here. We also have success here and so that lack of focus early on probably held us. Back from some strong initial growth because we were all over the place, especially in the real estate industry where you've got commercial and multiple parts of commercial with retail industrial of that, you've got residential sales. You've got multifamily, student, living, senior living there. So many different segments of the real estate industry that our platform works perfectly for, but the all take different, go to market strategies. What really got us to where we are today was honing in on the product market fit where we had a true b. to b. opportunity and the product was proving successful quicker and Huntington on that success is really what's expanded our growth being very, very focused and understanding if I'm going to build a product, sometimes that paralysis that you mentioned Matt might come from. I'm trying to go after too many things all the ones. So by segmenting your market, you're gonna market one way to all of these people. It's not going to you're not gonna have the big. What is it total addressable market that numbers probably not gonna be as big if you hone in your your, your specific market segmentation, but you're going to be able to market to them. You're going to be able to speak their language in the sales process more effectively. You're going to build a product that is more specific to their use case. You're not going to be trying to build integrations with twenty different industries. You're going to be building for one, and you're going to be an expert in that. And once you own that one market segment, you can go to a peripheral segment where you can tweak a little bit of the marketing or the product or the sales process to fit that kind of adjacent market against. Got Maxwell highly recommend that because we are so passionate about our idea. We can easily think of a million ways why every individual and the planet could use our product yet. This is dangerous because the reality is our initial product only addresses the solution to a very specific market segment focusing on that group instead of focusing on the broader market. Like Matt Jordan said will allow us to master. Solution guide us where we need to expand and from those insights, we can deliberately broaden our markets. Okay. So we've gone through the process and now we are off the ground running as a business. Our idea is not to simple. We've taken time. We've done our research. We've silence the noise distractions around our organization, and we've identified and honed in on a super specific market segment. Now the fifth and final key, and I think most important takeaway to bring your business idea to life is to simply persevere hands down. The big lesson I've learned through all of this is perseverance. You mentioned the highs, the lows, the roller coaster. That is the oil journey in never ends no matter how good or how bad it is. It's going to get better and it's also going to get worse. It's never gonna change. The thing that I really see consistently time and time again in mid west built companies is hard. Penis and the value of actually providing value be investors in the mid west. They wanna see revenue. They wanna see companies that are growing with expanding contracts and not just fluff and word of mouth and promises. They won't results. This point about perseverance is the most simple, but most important insight for success for Matt and Jordan. When you study the most successful executive, the most successful business leaders, they pick a few things. They singularly focused on those things and they walk into work and they move the needle on those few things every day. They don't let anything distract them. They don't let anybody tell me, can't do it and importantly enough. They don't let themselves tell them not going to be successful. That's perseverance. And I love the point here that the mid west, this wonder. Full state of Indiana where the Kelley school of business is based in thrives. That work ethic is something that gives us grit, and it gives us that that willingness to follow through and be deliberate. So if you if our listeners remember anything from this podcast, it's all about perseverance. Don't let anything distract you ignore the shiny objects. So let's recap. Ideas can start from a million different problems for Matt. His was the annoyance of driving hundreds of miles to look at properties only to be disappointed. They may seem super basic, but we have to remember that are are not too simple. Once we walked that down in our minds, we need to turn criticism of why it won't work or why something already exists into questions are product could answer, look at the flaws to the current solution in the market and figure out how our idea could fix those issues. Secondly, it's extremely important to slow down and take our time by doing extensive market research from focus groups to meeting with industry professionals, take time to really know what the market needs. Third, once we start moving the ball down the field, we have to drown out the noise. Silence those distractions knowing why we're starting this business or idea helps to. Silence those annoyances, this can identify who to bring in and who to walk away from what conference or hang out groups to explore and which wants to pay no attention to. Because at the end of the day were trying to build a business and we dictate how it comes to fruition. Fourth, once we get our idea going, it's important to hone in on a super specific market segment. It's easy for us to answer why the whole world could use it. But the reality is the whole world is not ready for mastering how we market to a specific segment makes widening our reach a whole lot easier in the long run. And finally, the fifth and most important key takeaway to bringing your business to life is get ready to persevere. The entrepreneurial journey is a roller coaster. There's guaranteed to be highs and there's even more guaranteed to be lows. We wear many hats as the leaders and we will hit major set. Bax however, what separates companies who make it? And those that don't is the willingness to push through this will take years. Quite frankly, it will take the life of your organization because even well established companies still hit major setbacks. If you enjoyed our podcast, we would love your help when you get a chance head over to items and leave us a review, and if you want us to explore a business topic, if you have questions you would like answered or just want to recommend a guest for our show, shoot us an Email at ROI pod. That's r I p o d. UP, y dot EDU. This has been another episode of ROI podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley school of business. I'm your host Matt Martel alongside Philp hall where we work hard to help organizations make better business decisions. We'll see you next week.
How to lead your team through disruptive life events | Ep. 94
"The. Welcome to another episode of the ROI podcast. Presented by the Indiana University Kelley school of business. I'm your host Matt Martel alongside associate dean Phil Powell where we help organizations make better business decisions before we jump to the content. I wanna take a moment just to welcome. All of our first time listeners to the show just to say, welcome to the Kelly family, for those of you who have questions if you're wrestling through a tough leadership decision or you just know of a great guest for our show. Be sure to shoot us an Email to our ipod, that's our P, O D at UPI dot EDU. All right. So on this episode we're sitting down with lethal murderous, an empathy consultant, and founder of handle with care. H R solutions. She works to empower forward thinking companies to support employee's with empathy and compassion. As they experienced disruptive life events. She also hosts her own podcast called handle with care podcast LIZA. Welcome to the show. Thanks for having me. So I wanna start and talk about this concept of empathy in the workplace. Why is this so important especially today, I think especially important today, well on a number of factors. But let's start with the labor market. So right now, an unemployment is at a really low level and companies of all sizes are fighting to attract and retain some of the best talent. You see that in management, IT range of different sectors. They're offering Booja on tap and ping pong tables in the break room and a huge aspect actually carrying well for people is the support that you give them or that you don't give them when they go through disruptive life events, and that's purposely broad term that could encompass a death, which is where we usually go when we think about grief, but it could also. Be a relationship transition or the difficult diagnosis that in ageing parent just got or relocate news, those things that just kind of knock you off your feet. So it's important because the labor market, it's important also because there's a real cost to American businesses in two thousand three the grief recovery institute did one of the first studies where they tried to put actual numbers to the cost to American businesses annually because of grief, and they weren't just looking at death. They were looking at a denied promotion or the death of a pet. They were looking at this wide range of things that happened that result in, perhaps people showing up at work, but not really being presence because maybe they're so distracted, or they're searching web MD to try to get information all the way to people who are so mishandled, by their workplace that they quit. And then you're having to recruit, and retrain. And at the time they put that number. At seventy five point one billion dollars in annual loss to American companies. If you just that foreign flation in twenty nineteen dollars. That's an estimated one hundred billion dollar cost to American companies if we don't handle this. Well, so I think empathy consultancy has, especially a place today. I think to what's interesting is seeing how cultures change because it used to be you would go to work, and you'd have your work life, you'd come home, you'd have your family life, and it was rare that those two worlds ever intersected, especially in old models of culprit, corporate culture. You know, so how are you breaking some of those barriers to kind of invite both personal and professional relationships? Workplace. Great question. I would say that we're not actually on the leading edge of changing that, that is a change that has already been occurring. I'm one of the oldest segments. Of the generational segment this called millennials. So I'm gonna reference my younger siblings and what I've seen about them has they approached their work. There's much more of this sense of like my work fits, within my holistic self like one part of my identity, and the purpose that they bring to it, and that need for the company that they work for to reflect some of those aspects of purpose and presence is really something that is being articulated, a lot more, and that sort of a culture shift from expectations that, you know, maybe more of a baby boomer or older generation had of this segmentation, they're already shifting, and especially for that younger population, which is going to become the dominant sector of the workforce before too long to miss them in these areas is to really miss them. And on the other side, those people who maybe previously would have said. Hey, I'm in my lane. This is what I do. This is my work like. Please don't ask me about what's going on at home. Like, how intrusive they're going to be having more of these disruptive life events. It is the reality of aging that whether it's caring for their own elderly, parents or facing their own health diagnoses. This is going to be a lot more in front of people as they age take us back. Let's, let's kind of go into the handle with care journey and talk about your own personal journey and how this company came to fruition. Yeah. Well, has a significant overlap, actually with the Kelley school of business. So I got an offer of a great scholarship from Kelley. I said yes, in two thousand ten and I found out a week later that I was unexpectedly pregnant with my third child a little girl that we named mercy Joan, but I thought, that's, that's okay. Like we're good at multitasking, I'm still gonna go. I'm going to lead this like student trip to Ghana. I remember talking with the director of student services, and really selling her like I'm going to be able to take this newborn baby oversee. Fees on this consulting trip is not going to be a big deal. We'd we'd lived overseas in Nairobi previously. And I was like I've taken little babies overseas. You can totally let me go, and I said, well, okay, but I found out in October, so I was right in the middle of like accounting and finance classes, found out that mercy had a pretty profound birth defect as a neural tube defect. And if it's lower its causes, the condition spina bifida, if it's higher, it causes anencephalia, which is always terminal. But where it was for mercy was she the base of her skull had not closed. So she had this large fluid filled sac on the back of her head. And with the physician said was, there are a range of surgical outcomes, and we actually we don't know this could be something that is op Rable, and she could have fairly minimal residual effects or this could be something that's terminal. And really, we won't know until. You have an outside the womb, MRI so with that broad range of uncertainty. We were meeting with hospice care, we were meeting with neurosurgeons. We're waiting and delivered mercy on February fifteenth. In two thousand eleven was right at the start of spring break, and it was really clear that doing any surgical intervention would be doing things to her and not for her. She had this lack of connectivity between the hemispheres her brain, her spinal column was hollow, and she couldn't breathe on her own. That was horrible. I mean it's awful she lived for eight days and died. And it's just a searing experience. And as it as it relates to this work. It was also the opportunity to observe external to my own experience as I reflected back on the. People who really intuitively like they knew what to do. They knew how to be there. I'll never forget gale from student services who came and she showed up in the hospital room. And she had a handwritten note from the dean of the school, she had a gift, she said to me, would you like me to let all of your professors know, so you're not having to tell everybody again, and again, as you get back to school? And I hadn't even thought that, that would be something that I would need or know how to ask for then there was the funeral fill. You came to the funeral with Gail a number of people from my MBA cohort. I didn't I was barely functioning, just waking up and going through the day, I didn't think like, oh, I should invite these people I should let them know, but it was so meaningful to have them there those sorts of gestures that, although they by no means, like made it better. My daughter was still dead. They did. Make the prospect of a week and a half later. When I needed to come back and actually show up to what was my place of employment, the Kelley school to think that, that was even possible like okay, maybe I can do this on the other hand, it was also the opportunity to, like, see the people who hadn't even think they knew how much they missed me when they missed me, you know, just went right over their heads and two. That was my first observational experience of being like, oh yeah, this really matters, and there's kind of this bogey factor like some people seem to do it really well. And some people seem to be totally clueless. And is that just the way of the world? Or is there way that we can actually train people to be better in these things? I think it's too, for a lot of leaders. I mean it's such a losses. Never easy thing to deal with, especially when you're trying to be professional. You're trying to balance that relationship of being having like this, you know, leadership role with people that you have influence. With and it can just be really awkward for a lot of a lot of leaders to, to even know where to begin, you know so, so from from your vantage point. No, how did this handle with care like this idea, you know, come about through that? And when was that moment of, you know what this is something that I need to help leaders overcome this great point? And it gets to the reality of. In, you said people feel uncomfortable. It also usually catches leaders by surprise, right? You don't show up Tuesday morning and nobody puts on your schedule for the day, like okay, and you're going to have to manage Robert, who's gonna come in, and tell you that his wife has ovarian cancer, and they don't give you a class for that in your MBA program, and it's unsettling don't know what to do. And you find yourself like scrambling in that moment. And either people tended to default, two things one, they think, oh my gosh. I don't wanna say something dumb. I don't wanna make it worse. I'm not going to say anything, and they say, well, they mumble somebody like maybe you should talk to HR about that and hope that it never comes up again, or they find themselves in real time, offering whatever like cliche. Or tired phrase was pedaled to them when they were in some situation, and now, they're which is like super helpful. And so as the moment of, when I realize, like, hey, this is an idea. That has legs it began with it began with talking with people within my community who had experienced disruptive life events. I also my youngest is a little guy name Moses, and he has had to have a couple of open heart surgeries at Riley hospital here in town. He's doing really well, but he'll need continued surgical intervention so between the loss of mercy and Moses condition and just the reality of, like when you have something sad happened, you tend to start hearing more stories, I started talking to people and asking them, what was your experience, specifically in the workplace. And there were a couple of people who said, oh, my gosh. My workplace was great. But a lot of people had these stories of I was missed and this way. And the way that they dealt with my medical bills or my leave was so atrocious. And I can't believe that person said that, so I was collecting sort of this qualitative data and I started thinking. I really should examine what the existing support systems are so I started incorporating into that meeting with different HR leaders and managers and hearing about their pain points and looking at what's really in place, and basically, in the most forward thinking companies right now, if somebody goes through something hard, you'll have this overlap with an HR, professional and lots of these HR professionals, they get some good technical training, but I've been hearing again. And again, like I've never had a class on this. There's not a good resource. I'm just I'm reaching out to my network, or I'm going from what I know there's not a good equipping for them beyond that someone might have a couple of days of bereavement leave because that's not guaranteed nor is it standardized in America. And they might have access to an employee assistance program, which is this external subsidized counseling which doesn't really touch on the reality of culture building within an organization like do the people around. You actually have tools to support you. Well, so as I was beginning to put together that kind of landscape, I realized that there were some substantial gaps. And then I began looking okay. What, what sorts of individual facilitators or writers are doing good work? And that was where I also realized that as much as their individuals doing some good work. Nothing has been put together in a solution that can be deployed at scale in a really like real time, digestible way because it's one thing to try to train people eight months before something happens, but really in the midst of a crisis. What somebody needs as real time equipping, like tell me thirty seconds before I'm gonna see this person what I should do. To that plan to the seed of what we're presently doing at handle with care and the longer range vision of what we're hoping to build. And I knew it's, it's really unique because a lot of consultants may be just sit on the outskirts of something observer have some personal experience with it. But for you specifically mean you walk through, you know, a really tough season in life, like a lot of employees that don't expect it as much as the leaders within their organization. Don't expect it. So what were some of the principles that grounded you or kind of helped you through that you're kind of implementing within handle with care? One of the first principles is just the importance of reaching out. I think a lot of times, people have this initial paralysis of thinking, exactly what I said. I don't know what to do. I don't know what to say. I'm not going to do anything or they can think I wanna bring it out because it's really just going to make you sad and the reality was I, I was already profoundly sad. And what one of my teammates, or people within my classroom setting or my professors when they say something like I heard that your daughter died, and I'm so sorry that didn't make me sadder. It made me feel cared for. That's something that I hear it a pretty resonant theme people want the hard thing that they're going through to be acknowledged. And that term to have it be aknowledged is also a leading principle into a second point of something that's meaningful so many times as p. People are trying to offer comfort or something substantial. Let's say like they get over that threshold of sane. I'm going to say something then what they find themselves doing is they offer some story about their own encounter with immediately like, oh, you're going through a divorce. I went through divorce in my thirties. He was such a dog. It was the worst thing in my life. You know, they and what they don't realize in that moment that they've actually taken the attention off that person and put it on themselves and their own experience. They're all kinds of things like that, that we go through in these training sessions of saying that actually is not accomplishing what you want to do what you want to do is show care and support for the person. And one of the best ways to do that, especially in a first interaction is just to have this initial acknowledgement. This was really hard. And I'm sorry. You know, at least a hearing your story again because I was part of that with your iron Bloomington at the time, and your business model truly comes from a place of authenticity, you've experienced this and as I hear you talk. Here's my question in that or want to get your response. At an employee's deepest time of need the way that the organization react is the ultimate test of the culture. It's almost the litmus test. What separates the great places to work from those that are not. And we know that at the end of the game at the end of the day, most people leave their job, leaving organization, not because of salary because of the way they've been treated. So did you see this as an ultimate miss test of, of great culture, and, and that organizations, really are are truly invested in their employees? I think it's a great way of saying that the stakes are high right. When, when somebody is at this point of crisis, and whether we phrase it as an ultimate litmus test, because the stakes are so high the benefit of doing it. Well, the people that I've talked to who were well cared for in the midst of their grief, we'll say things like I, I had to leave that organization, five years later because of XYZ, but they took such good care of me. I would do anything for them. I mean I that's part of how I speak about the Kelley school. I speak so glowingly of the care that I received anyone for the rest of my life. If they ask me about culture or people within institutions I was well cared for my recommend or score is so high on the flip side when we talk about the cost to organizations, perhaps, on the best ways to illustrate that is. An encounter that I had within the last couple of weeks, I was talking to networking event with a woman, and I was telling her some of the broad outlines of what I'm doing, and I could see it in her is this connection, and she goes, oh my gosh. I wish that my employer would have had this fifteen years ago, and she had moved Indianapolis she had been recruited for pharmaceutical sales. She was a rap, she came to town single mom and her only son got sick. He got really sick like he's in the hospital and she described it in no idea if he was going to make it or not, and the Representative from the company that she worked for was on the other end of the line with her. And she said, oh, my gosh. He was just so concerned about crossing the TS and dotting. The is, and I was a new hire, and there was no space, and I hadn't qualified for any paid time off and I wasn't on the health insurance plan and he was so tone, deaf and so-, mishandled her in that moment as she's. In the hospital room that she hangs up the phone and not only did she decide that she would quit this organization. She decided that she was quitting. Pharmaceutical sales in tirelessly. And so that's, that's her story. And that's something, but I just imagine also like that individual on the other side of the phone. If you could have written out for him. Okay. You're going to bobble this conversation, and it's going to have actually this bottom line cost your company, this new hire that you've just recruited like if you put, you know that sixty thousand dollar cost over the next couple of months, he probably would have been a little bit more purposeful, or done it a little bit differently, or been receptive to somebody saying, hey, if you just I mean, if you say it with that different inflection here, like you're not gonna lose that not to mention the fact that fifteen years later, the reputational cost to the organization that I won't name, but that she was more than willing to name, you know, a decade in the half after happened is Hugh. Like you don't ever get that back. I wanna talk to, you know, you for, for all of our leaders that are listening that have to wrestle with these, you know, have teams who like you said, on Tuesday, you're not expecting someone to come in to talk about the loss of a beloved, family member, and having to feel those questions. So what advice can you offer? What training tips do you have for, for managers and leaders to engage those conversations even though it may be awkward, and it may be really hard? There is some specificity of depends on the kind of disruption that the person's talking about it is one thing, if it is the death of family member, which is a little bit more, discreet. It's another thing if it is a divorce, which is ongoing. And you're getting one side of that the story. So with it with a caveat that in the trainings inquiries idea you'd go into some of the nuance of that one of the one of the key things. I, I would say is this, this tool of empathy. Consulting is one part of a bigger cultural matrix. If you don't within your company already have things in place where you're showing that you've value your people, and that is in all sorts of aspects of team building and communication and training and benefits, like it's a holistic picture, if you have a lot of dysfunctional ready, and you oh, I'm going to hire in this workplace empathy consultant, and I'll make it all better that, it, it's gonna fall flat. You know, if your manager has never given a hoot about your wellbeing, and suddenly when your child gets sick, they're, they're saying, I really care. You know how are you doing going to be tone deaf as to just basic things there, too, as you can never go? Wrong one is through because people have a really basic needs in the middle of going through disruption. They still need eat. And they don't wanna cook. At those moments if you can build something into this is what we talk about sometimes in consulting. Can you standardize like we're going to work with door dash or these three other areas, and we're going to give you six meal deliveries over the next quarter? You schedule them the company just underwrites that another thing that people really don't have the band to do is clean their house. We set up arrangements with different house cleaning services to visit twice the next quarter, those super tangible aspects of care, go a long way to meeting physical needs, and they also help in companies that say, maybe we're doing this and ad hoc manner. We don't have, you know, we haven't standardized it, it just lays this base level. So taking care, physical needs. Another thing, the basic like a quipping, your people to acknowledge, hey, this hard thing is happening and. After that acknowledgement also speaking into the person's capacity. Lots of times, I found my own story and other people's people who are going through disruption a question that they have is like. I don't feel like myself. There's so much going on. I feel overwhelmed. Can I still do my job? I don't even know if I can still do it. Sheryl Sandberg, the CO Facebook, she wrote Leinen, her next book was option be written after her husband died at a relatively young age while running on a treadmill in Mexico. She addresses this sense of dislocation and self doubt in one of her early chapters. She talked about coming in and sitting in some meeting, and just feeling like she wasn't present. Maybe she said something dumb, and how important was to have a colleague, come up to her and be able to say something along the lines of, like, Cheryl. I know that this is hard and you're still really good at your job and that meeting like that's a blip on the radar screen. We believe in your capacity and that, those so meaningful to hurt, people also like they crave that from their colleagues from their managers, so to be able to not only aknowledge that something hard is going on. But as appropriate to be able to say something like you know, this is a really tumultuous time for you. I wanna let you know, you are such an important member of our team. We value, what you bring everyday, and we wanna walk with you, as you're moving towards stabilising, and thriving again and just know like we're in your corner, some like that is deeply meaningful. So awesome, thank you so much for being our guest on our show, again, this Liezl murders. She is the founder of handle with care also hosts a podcast called handle with care. And if you'd like more definitely check that out where you can get more topics and tips on how to learn to be more empathetic in the office and working. With with your with your team. This has been another episode of the ROI podcast, presented by the Indiana University Kelley school of business. I'm your host Matt Martel alongside Phil Powell where we help organizations make better business decisions. We'll see next week.
How to lead your organization through this "trade war" | Ep. 79
"The. March. I is just around the corner, which means the US and China are supposed to reach a trade deal before the US imposes another round of tariff increases on Chinese goods coming into the United States back in December twenty eighteen both countries agreed to halt new tariffs for ninety days in order to allow time for negotiations with uncertainty. If both sides will reach a deal in time on this episode. We're sitting down with one of our Kelly experts, professor Dale Brown. Who's going to help us navigate our organizations through these choppy economic waters. Let's get to the podcast. Welcome to another episode of the ROI podcast presented by the Indian university Kelley school of business. I'm your host Matt Martel alongside associate dean Phil Powell here on the show. We work hard to help organizations make better business decisions. So thank you so much for joining us today. If this is your first time listening, we just want to welcome you to the Kelly family. This weekly podcast. Focuses on interviews with thought leaders from the great state of Indiana. And around the US each episode offers three to five takeaways that can be applied to our leadership immediately. So help us help you if you're a leader trying to work through a major obstacle in your career or within your organization. Let us know you're not alone either. Because at some point we all have or we all will face the same challenges. So shoot us an Email to our ipod. That's R I P O D, UPI dot EDU. We'll anytime. We hear the word war. We know there are at least two parties engaging in some sort of conflict be at physical economic or emotional. It does not matter. What context war takes place? Here's the principle that always stands true war is costly for both sides. Whether your company is impacted by these tariffs, or you're just trying to stay prepared for the future. We're going to offer some points on how to successfully navigate your organization through this trade war. But I it's important to understand the role of tariffs inside a global economy. Pair of play a vital important part in international business. Most of countries that we do business with tariffs used earlier in the three to four percent rage for goods going out or coming in. But then sometimes you have those big gigantic tariffs like that. Trump administration has imposed. On China and some other countries in the steel industry in the aluminum industry with rains from ten fifteen twenty percent. And depending on if those terrorists are on the goods that are coming into your country. Then of course, that's not a good thing. Because that means that the companies receiving those goods are paying more money, which awesomely gets passed onto the consumer. You know, Matt, we know two things about tariffs. Their impact is complex and their consideration is controversial there are benefits to tariffs. You can use them to punish trading partners. If those trading partners are not protecting your actual property, or they're engaging in an unethical labour or environmental practices. If you're trading partners or imposing tariffs on you. It's a way to signal to them that they need to lower their tariffs. It's it could be a counterpunch. And also it can be a way to protect domestic industry. Whether that's protecting the loss of jobs or protecting certain industries for reasons of national security. There are rational reasons to argue in favor of tariffs at the same time. There's drawbacks. These drawbacks are reduced trade. If you impose tariffs pretty much, your trading partners are going to impose tariffs, which will hurt your businesses. It will hurt your exports and will hurt their exports. It also aggravates any tensions politically that our current in the international Rena, and it can make cooperation with your trading partner difficult on another issue in international relations and also tariffs lead to inflation their tax their tax on goods and services you buy from abroad, and at least increased prices, which leads to inflation. And so the benefits can be there. But the costs are also there too. So it's it's a really debate about the trade offs that tariffs create, and we could spend a lot more time getting into the theory of these tariffs or try to pick sides to the argument. However, whatever our thoughts or beliefs about tariffs, the reality is there in place at the moment, and as leaders, we still must make crucial leadership choices for organizations. So how do we work through these obstacles? How do we take these challenges and make better business decisions liquid with any major obstacle? It starts with taking more cautious outlook about the future for our companies. I don't think this trade war will go on forever. But for right now, you've got to deal with it. So that means you have just like we as consumers you're out of work because of the government short shutdown. What you gotta do. Do you got to tighten your Bill continued to work on being efficient in your operations continue to look at your turnover operations for cutting costs continue to stay competitive. So that you can offer your customers at competitive price for goods and services. So I think if you get to the end of town light, it's in tunnel again as you said, then we'll have an opportunity to kind of go back away. Things were clicking along just fi before we got into terrible. So our listeners may have heard a recent episode episode seventy seven or professor Kyle Anderson, and I offered economic forecasts for twenty nineteen part of our forecast was the impact of a trade war and history shows that a trade war in the short run leads to a contraction in economic activity. It leads to a slowdown. It leads to a slowdown because. Exports for both trading partners goes down, and it takes a long time to replace those exports. You would buy from the other country with your own domestic industry that just takes time. And in between you have a shortage of of goods and services that means the price goes up. So while we're in a trade war, while discussion of a trade war continues while negotiations continue with no fallback in terms of tariffs company should expect slower economic activity. They should expect a slower US economy, which means they should be more cautious. And how they look at the next six twelve or eighteen months again, I want to echo Daryl. This trade war will not go on forever. If this trade war does happen. It's a speed bump we all must hurdle. So in the meantime, along with embracing a cautious way of conducting business. We also need to embrace innovation and creativity in this. Season. And right now businesses have to decide do I want to continue to pass on these costs to consumer or their other countries. I can get those products goods and services from. So that's one way that you may be able to avoid tariffs. If you can't get product or service from China, then maybe you can get it from India or the European Union one of those countries anywhere else to help bring your costs back down her stabiliser costs. So you don't have to pass it onto the consumers. If you're a manager if you're an executive the world always throws you a curveball. These trade wars are a big curveball anytime something unexpected happens that has a negative impact on business. It's an opportunity to be creative. It's an opportunity to be innovative and entrepreneurial. And so with a trade war. It impacts supply chains a lot of our American companies source product or they source input from foreign companies. And if all of a sudden. Your product or your supply chain gets caught up in that trade war. Your prices are gonna go up you need to look for alternatives. Are there other countries in the world were perhaps you could source your inputs? Maybe there's a country. That's just an economic take-off that is newly industrializing where you might consider a brand new company a brand new provider for that resource or or or service. Also, can you make it internally? Are there American producers that you didn't know about that with a little a little bit relationship-building they could substitute from where you would otherwise be exporting. Your component business has to continue. Production has to continue you have to adjust your supply chain to continue to meet domestic demand for your product. Don't let the trade war paralyze your business because if you do that's a bad habit of just letting any unexpected events make you stop doing business, and that's just that's just not a winning strategy for any any manager Ernie executive a one of the things companies. I think did not react to their. External environment is Sears. And you can see how Sears is one hundred twenty five year old great company is just gone down down down down in you know, by then a year, maybe out of business bankrupt. Oughta gather. And they could have avoided that situation Headey reacted to the walmarts to the targets till the external environment to e commerce to things like that. But Sears didn't. They're the situation they aren't today. Because in Phil I love what you said about companies having to make decisions regardless of the situation on the environment. We find ourselves for example. Let's take a look at Sears Sears was a major retailer in fact in nineteen sixty nine they were the largest retail store and retailer in the entire world for years later, they even build a seer the Sears tower in Chicago, one of the iconic symbols of the city and leading up to the WalMart and Amazon era in the late nineties early two thousands their returns were fantastic. However, one thing that I think this quote sums it up. This is by Barbara Kahn, a professor of marketing at Warton school. She told CNN during a two thousand four interview, quote, WalMart came along with it's great service and low prices other retailers started to innovate more with products and services, Sears, KMart simply trudged along. And thought it was good enough, and quote here we find thinking it's good enough thinking it's going to pass sitting by being idle sometimes can be the beginning of the end for organization you met you write the lesson translates. You can't just sit idly by companies cannot sit idly by and just assume that the global economy is going to return to what it was before the election. Even if there's a change in administration, there's been a fundamental shift in the political perspective on trade, and there's more tolerance for tariffs. And there are huge reasons for that. And it's changes in the social and political landscape a lot of business faces disruption from technology that's going to change what successful Newmarket same thing. Here a lot of industries face political risk. And you can't just assume that though, those political arrangements that work to your favor or the make business easier. Always going to be in place. You have to adapt. If you do not adapt. A competitor will which means they'll still your market share and you'll become obsolete and you'll shrink and you'll bankrupt or be acquired. That's exactly what what's happening with once leviathans, Sears and KMart. And once we embrace the creativity and innovation. It's time to make a plan for multiple scenarios Zo as leaders you in your strategic planning, you know, this happens. So you're going to play plan B planning, right? If we don't have tariffs, high tariffs or tariff war than we can continue to go along this path if we have moderate amount of terrorists, then we'd take this path. If we have heavy duty tariffs then. Okay. We take this path. And we look at how we can cut back. Tighten her bell. Maybe not expand is fast as we were. And have that plan updated each and every year? Especially if you're shipping products in receiving products overseas, especially with China, and maybe some other countries. Seen it once before you can set yourself could it happen again? Let me be better prepared. If it does have you should have strategic plans. This is if we have a recession in this country, or you had an unknown competitor knocking your door you've got to be able to react to the external environment. This is important as the leader to remember that you're always reacting to the external environment, and how it affects you and your business. And if you do that, I think you'll be fine. You know, Matt Daryl's emphasizing timeless lesson. Plan your work in work. You plan. But plan for different types of work and different types of scenarios anticipate, what can be you know. If you make a plan when there is no storm, you will survive the storm. Those that plan for recessions, and it an accept the fact that they can occur we'll survive they have a fallback position. This is why it's important to think very long term to always have some cash reserves to always have a plan B, and that's the part of being doing businesses about being nimble. And if you're nimble, you can adapt you can pivot, and he can respond to whatever comes your way. It might not feel good. It might not be the best of times. But if your business you'll survive to prosper another day. And like I said before this trade war will not last forever. If it does occur the US and China are the two leading economic powerhouses of the world economy and should reach an agreement because both countries are feeling the economic strain caused by these tariffs. And when that happens the impact should be fairly immediate wouldn't take very long with take the with even take a couple of months. We went. Back to where we were. You could see it come down a pipeline pre fast pretty significantly usually when they impose tariffs it may be takes two or three months down the road to see all those increases same thing when they get rid of. You know? Although does that take as long, you can see the FEC a lot more immediately. You know, Matt Daryl's completely right? The stakes are too high for both China and the United States for this trade war to last forever. There's too much to lose what we're seeing right now is political instead of economic it's it's arm flexing. And the Trump administration has some legitimate complaints about fair access of US firms to our markets, the questions become how much will or how much endurance of short term pain can either China or the US withstand? It's kind of a game of political chicken. And it it Kerr's costs and managers and executives simply need to accept the reality of this manage to it in the short, medium run with the expectation and a plan that. At this too will pass that's the good news here, but managers executives should also see that this is a test of your -bility to breathe and flex and your business model, so that you can survive unexpected shocks. So let's recap tariffs are supposed to increase on imported goods from China. If United States and the Chinese governments do not make a deal by March first of this year already we have felt the pains from this trade war as both consumers and business leaders. But remembered China is also feeling the pain because like any war both sides pay a high price understanding, how tariffs impact the global economy both for the good and for the bad gives us the baseline insight. We need to lead ourselves, and our organization through these tough times, regardless of our beliefs or feelings on these trade sanctions, the reality is they exist. So we can either sit back and do nothing or we can make preparations to come out on top during these uncertain economic times as leaders we got lean toward a more cautious approach to our business decisions. This allows us to catch her breath and. See exactly what's in front of us. We also need to increase our creativity and innovation because our normal way of doing business is currently too expensive. Whether it's finding new supply chains looking internally for temporary cutbacks or maybe bringing some projects in house to help keep our consumers happy the goal is to make away for our organization. Just remember these trade wars will not go on forever. So we're engaging in temporary measures. It's the companies that don't adapt who find themselves in the back of the pack. Just like the Sears example. Finally, once we embrace new ways of conducting business, write it down take this time, while it's fresh to create robust strategies in the event this happens, again, just like we have plant A B and C when new companies entered the market or consumer base changes have a plan for if and when new tariffs are created and how your company will still function. Remember at the end of the day in organization. Is only as good as leaders leading the charge. So it's up to us to make sure we can push through these obstacles. This has been another episode of the ROI podcast, presented by the Indiana University Kelley school of business. I'm your host Matt Martel alongside associate dean Philp hull where we work hard to help organizations. Make better business decisions. We'll see next week.
3 keys to successfully scale your business | Ep. 142
"The question is what do you want to look like in twenty twenty five and in really thinking that through and then work your way back? Welcome to another episode of the Roi podcast presented by the Indian University Kelley. School of business. I'm your host Matt. Martel here on the show. Our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions so we just want to welcome you. If this is your first time into r Kelly family and just let you know that we exist to make sure you get the best resources possible so if you're looking for some expert advice if you're wrestling with a leadership question maybe you're in a spot where you don't know what to do as a leader with your organization or maybe you just love to get a hold of some of our faculty and just pick their brain or maybe you know of an individual who make a great guest for our show reach out to us and let us know citizen email to. Roi pod that's Roi P. OD at UPI DOT Edu whether you're an entrepreneur for whether you're management management within a massive organization. The word how do we scale or questions about scaling always come into conversations and it becomes a big buzzword of like culture are kind of like you know growth strategy you know. We have all these business buzzwords. But what do they actually mean? And how do we actually implement them on this episode? We have the honour of sitting down with the managing partner at High Alpha. Scott Dorsey of venture capital studio helping entrepreneurs conceive launch and scale new businesses. Scott I just want to welcome you to the podcast. Thank you matt. Great to be here so you guys have a very successful company here in Indianapolis and have grown it to a very big footprint in the Tech Community. You know as we talk about the idea of scaling out. I love to just your story about how you were able to grow this organization to where it is today. Sure I'd be happy to you. Know many of started our career the exact target you and had this extraordinary you know ten year plus run of growing and scaling a software company that ultimately became a leader in the digital marketing space. And you know we learned and grew as individuals as a team in his company in in in Love Indianapolis and by the way. I'm a proud I. You School of business scrat- also so it's wonderful for me to be a part of the program with High Alpha which we started five years ago it was a way to pay it forward in really leverage all of our learnings in experience from exact target to help the next generation of tech entrepreneurs and and really lift up our tech community and hopefully create. More breakout successes. Like we had with exact target. So so we've had. We've had a blast. Matt we have about forty of us on the team were one part. Startup Studio one part Venture Capital Fund in. All of us are focused on starting in scaling. Bb SAS companies and we have an incredible mix of we have data. Scientists engineers product designers marketers. Hr talent finance every function. One would need to start in scale software company very rapidly and exact target for a lot of people that may not be familiar with. It was a very successful company that got bought out by salesforce. Eventually talk about you know for your own personal leadership philosophy kind of how you and your team lead that that growth within your organization is a remarkable experience madden one of a lot of good fortune. Good luck great timing. We kind of caught the wave of digital marketing and all marketing moving online and caught the wave of software as a service cloud but the the real reason behind her success. I believe was just building a culture that super talented people want to be a part of in. They cared for one another. They cared for customers. They were excited to be a part of a high-growth Tech Company right here in Indiana and we proved that we could compete on a global scale extraordinary experience in in one of a lot of personal growth for me. I think everybody along along with us. Three of US started the company first time software entrepreneurs no technical background very little capital. And you know step by step. We built an amazing company. We ultimately went public in March. Two Thousand Twelve on the New York Stock Exchange. We grew the company about two thousand employees. All around the world about fifteen hundred right in downtown Indianapolis and then we ultimately sold the sales in summer of thirteen for two and a half billion dollars just an outcome way beyond our wildest dreams our expectations but most importantly it it produced an incredible experience for our investors in our employees who are finding their own ways to pay it forward you know investing a new startups starting new companies or continuing with salesforce and growing their careers in a meaningful way with that remarkable company. And very proud that salesforce now has two thousand employees here in downtown Indie. Tallest building in the state of Indiana's The salesforce tower. So I think we're forever branded attack community in emerging tech community in. We were just grateful to be a part of it. Is You just? Kinda sit back in you know. Go back to that first day. When you and a couple a couple guys couple people were sitting in a living room. You know getting this thing going to now taking a healthy look back and seeing where it's grown and where it's gone. I mean what runs through your mind as just someone to be able to leave your footprint in your legacy for so many other people. It was a great feeling. We've started matt. Which is like the humblest of humble beginnings we had a tiny little office in Greenfield Indiana. Three in the started the company we bootstrap the company. We worked without with worked without a salary. Raise money from the only source that believed in US our friends and our family members and You know Kinda step by step Created something that That grew quickly. And you think made a big impact on the community so our our ambition and our goals got a lot diggers. We went but but early on. And it's really the core of what we do at High Alpha. It's about finding a problem that you really want to solve. And in focusing on innovation and hard work in serving customers and building organization with the right values and culture that really tells us that people want to be a part of it in. It's it's really neat that we're now able to do this. At scale on repetitive. Way Within High Alpha so we started eleven new companies Alpha One and with high off to started thirteen so he started twenty four new companies that wouldn't exist without I alpha in most importantly we're partnered with remarkable founders. That are so gifted and talented. And I know they're going to build big successful businesses and it's an honor to be a sounding board coach for them on their own Entrepreneurial Journey. I certainly had an extraordinary amount of help. You know the the mentors advisors and investors. I had along the way. Hold me up and helped me grow and you know. It's a blessing to be able to try to do the same for others so as we talk about this ideal of scaling and that's are going to be our topic for today's podcast. You know we. We want to drill it down to three unique areas and scaling. Because first off is you know you WANNA kill yourself WANNA scale your team. And then ultimately you want to scale your business and how all of those relate and so you know obviously for all those who've been listening to the podcast for awhile. We embrace the ideology that an organization is only as good as the individuals running them the people with the character and and the leadership skills they are only going to be and grow to the level of that individual or group of individuals so obviously we need to start with ourselves as organizational leaders and scaling yourself. So Scott talk about you know this idea of scaling before we even get into that talk about you. Know How you define scaling. And what what you kind of put in the forefront so we can get the same in similar language and we'll get into. How do you begin to scale yourself? And what that involves the. I love this lane of conversation so I really appreciate you exploring with me. So I think it's framework honestly when I think about how to scale there's to scale yourself as a person as a leader second hottest scale your team in the third scale your business and those who are very different but they're very complimentary and if you get them right you can have real winning formula around how to grow businesses successfully. So let's start with scaling yourself in I was. I was extraordinarily unfortunate fortunate during the exact target journey to go from scrappy little startup. Ceo To scale CEO to see you a public company to executive within salesforce for us and it was not clear to me or probably the people around me that I could go that far or extend that far and only happened because I had so many people helping in coaching and Pushing me to grow so skimming yourself. I think about first and foremost learning. What are you doing to learn and get better every day? Reading LISTENING TO PODCASTS. Meeting New People expanding your network going to events. You have to have a hunger in a curiosity to learn and grow. That's really really core. You also have to surround yourself with people can learn from who our coaches who your mentors. Who are colleagues you work with that? Just make you better. That's that's really really important. In having curiosity to learn grow when we took our first adventure in two thousand four hours from firm called insight venture partners and they had extraordinarily learning programs not only proce- IOS for leaders of every function within tech company. And I I was a sponge I tended every program. It was helpful that I didn't have a tech background. I was the first time. Ceo So I just knew I had to learn. I didn't I didn't have the blessing of knowledge you know it was. It was more the beginners mind curiosity and one of the nicest compliments gave me was. They felt that any CEO in their portfolio. I took advantage of their learning opportunities. More and better than than than anyone else is. Probably just because I had less experience and I just I just knew I needed to learn so so I think scaling yourself. It's it's learning. Its in its surrounding yourself with amazing coaches and mentors care about you. Want to help you grow. I've read and I often spoke about this idea of having your own personal board of Directors Board for Your Business in your working to build a diverse board with different experiences. That can help your company. The same is true for us an individual who's your personal board of directors who would be the six people you tap on the shoulder to say there my my personal coach and mentor and probably for different reasons. Who Do I lean on for family adviser faith advice or Business Advisor Career Advice? You know in think proactively about who's your personal board of directors and then make sure you nurture those relationships and make sure you let those people know how important they are in your life in meaningful they are. I think it's important at any age that you yet people in your life that you can learn from in India. Lean on to make better and I think that's so fascinating to think about because as a leader. If you don't work to find your next season or your next level of growth you'll stagnate you know and hit your ceiling of of of growth and stay there and then your organization you know what will stagnate in organs eight your team because not members going to surpass your leadership and were where you're growing so when you were in that season especially when you were in that startup. Ceo YOU'RE GONNA entrepreneurial CEO the go go-getter and then you got into a public trading CEO had your mindset. Had to shift your your decision making shift. What did you determine was the most important things to focus on for you to scale yourself to that next level? There's might be surprising map but I think one of the biggest kind of accelerates of my growth was building a phenomenal leadership team and exact target the the more I was able to hire an attract talent. Who had had already been there done that they they had already scaled software companies at extraordinarily high level. They many we've had more experience than I had but I was. I was comfortable hiring them and I was lucky and fortunate. I could convince him to join us on this journey. That helped me scale because challenged me that. Oh my goodness okay. If I've got Scott mccorkell running technology or Indie kofoed running sales. They have an extraordinary amount of experience. I've gotTA bring my game every day and I'm learning from them. Maybe more than their learning for me in and being open to that and the more you surround yourself with excellence lifts you up and just makes you better in it for me early on. When we were small I had a much higher tendency to be a micromanager kind of down in every detail. I still like to do that. I mean that's still a tendency that that I've got to protect against or at least picked my spots and when you hire leaders that have so much more experienced and domain experience in you have you. You don't need to do that. You can't do that and it kind of helps you elevate and make sure you're staying at a more strategic level and you're kind of setting over overall priorities in resource allocation for the business. You're trusting amazing people. You -pired in in your job really becomes more up supporting them knocking down obstacles that are getting in their way and what. I loved as we're hiring more and more experienced leaders I. I didn't even have to really tell them what to do. Already knew what to do in fact probably knew what to do better than I did so they were very self directed and it just shifts your role as see you on the business when you strive yourself with that kind of talent who has so much experience in. They're so driven itself self directed. That's not you have to play in before we get into the obviously the scaling the business. You can't scale a business if you don't have people coming on your team to kind of be able to Take on more responsibility. Because the more responsibility they can take on. Then you know the bigger the business can grow soup for you when you're determining scaling your team in working to get those people on how you define a successful team. It's great crushing. I think it starts with with culture. You know it starts with are you do you. Have you wind around the same set of values? Do you care about the same things you kind of pointing in the right direction. Teams cannot operate at a high level without really good alignment around Cornelius. So I to me. That's starting point is core. Values in cultural fit. Next is is really diversity. In in every form diversity could be gender diversity. Ethnic diversity diversity experience diversity of thawed people who are just wired very very differently. It's it's really having a diverse team and is the leader understanding. What are your strengths? But also what your gaps and making. Sure you you you have a team. That's that can fill your gaps and in overtime and I'm still learning but I learned a lot about what my gaps were in found creative ways to surround myself talented people that complimented me well in filled in a gap so so. I think it's kind of finding that harmony and that strategic fit across the team and then making sure it's really clear what's what's the vision. What does success look like what our goals make sure everybody's kind pulling in the same direction so when you start actually begin to bring people on your team your businesses? You're starting to grow you. As an organizational leader. See the need for a half. Have I have two people on to to take some off my plate? Wendy you begin that process because I think for a lot of organizational leaders you know there's a tendency to bring people onto fast and you're kind of kind of getting A. Oh maybe I didn't. Maybe too fast. Maybe financials aren't ready. And they're potentially could be too slow. You know we miss out on some opportunities. Miss Business Deals When for you dude termine is the right time to start expanding and scaling your team on on your organization. Sure it's a great crushes a hard question to answer you know it's all about resource allocation and all about. I think understanding the your economic model in the world that I live in. It's about raising outside capital. It's about building software that you can sell can over and over again via the subscription model. That's inherited SAS and then and then understanding when it really hit the accelerator so in in tech you know typical lifestyle. You're kind of typical life cycle of an early stage Tech Company. You you symbol a founding team in. Hopefully they complement each other. Well then you really hire the software development team you start hiring product managers and engineers and maybe eight scientists to start building the product we do some founders selling to make sure that we can bring early customers on board. We have product market shed. We're solving a real problem. We figure out pricing packaging. And then once you start to see that you do have a product. A technology solution. The market wants then you start scaling the marketing and sale side in over time. It's you know it's really shifting resources around and is really it was funny it exact target you know there were years where we were hiring three four five hundred employees a year. You'd think an abundance of resources but I guarantee every hiring manager we had that need more I can't keep up and so there's scarcity and prioritization becomes really important as well but it. I think it really is about understanding your economic model understanding your your access to capital your funding sources and then making smart decisions. One of the best moves. We made it exact target. Which was very counterintuitive. We actually filed public the first time in December of Oh seven. The financial crisis hit in early. Oh eight and we were unable to go public and we ended up staying on file for all of. Oh eight in the we had to pull our I. Pio Listing in early. Oh nine and at the same time raises seventy million dollar round capital in really really went after it but the counter intuitive move we had was that in Oh eight oh nine all of our competitors were were cutting back. They were just very similar today to the economic crisis. Today they were cutting headcount cutting costs. They were doing everything that could extend their capital runway. We had enough capital and insight into our business that that things were really really working and it was time for us to go faster. It was time for us to move up into the enterprise segment. Type Russ to expand internationally. We had insight into our business where we knew we could thrive in an economic downturn. Because I love the name your podcast. By the way our ally our technology digital marketing technology we had bidirectional our ally. We were generating more revenue for our customers at lower cost. That's a pretty good formula so anyway long story short. We went super aggressive in early. Oh nine hiring. Heavy into RND software development opening international offices expanding your sales footprint while all of our competitors were going the other direction they were pulling back in. It's really that counterintuitive. Move that allowed us to really blast right past our competitive set and our growth rates were accelerating in two thousand ten two thousand eleven two thousand twelve all because of the intuitive investment. We made a nine. That's amazing to hear. And you know before we get into the scaling of your actual business and start bringing some of those principles into the business end one thing that plagues high tech especially is such a high turnover rate especially in You Know Development. Coding and things that specifically address software solutions. Or you know there's this very high turnover rate and so when you're trying to scale and you're trying to bring the right people on your team and you're also being plagued by this you know potential of Of another company coming in and stealing some of your talent you know. How do you as an organization work to combat that in to really build a team that wants to be a part of what you're doing? I think it's I think it's one of the big advantages we have in Indian probably in all the midwest generally I would say is a higher degree loyalty by look at our coastal competitors. They really suffered from high turnover. Date exact dynamic you're you're describing was kind of hopping from one started to the next in Indian the Midwest. I we see a lot less of that exact target in the work we do at High Alpha. Our focus is created amazing experience for employees. And I think you do that through carrying about them. Having strong core values having a having a really healthy and growing culture compensating people. Well we've always been an advocate that own police have equity options in the company. So if we succeed everybody succeeds and I think if you you snap those pieces together in your in your hopefully also. You're doing great work in the community too. There's there's a gift I you know. Philanthropic elemental or able to do when when tech companies work. You bring that all together. Your job is leaders to create a company that amazing people want to be a part of and they want to grow with you and stay with you for a long long time and that that can be achieved so as we get into The scaling actual business practices and working to grow this organization to becoming very successful. You know before an organization even begins to think or starts pulling the trigger on how they want scale. Maybe they want to open up a new branch. Maybe THEY WANNA open up a new. You know Development within their organization and enterprise however that scaling looks as someone who works with entrepreneurial companies and even been apart of scaling yourself. Where does an organization and the leadership need to start before deciding? To pull the trigger that we are going to scale. I do thoughts come to mind. That one is back to that earlier. Point of just understanding Your Business and your unit economics and and really understanding the market. So you have to have a good sense for what growth looks like in the world attack. It's all about growth. You know it's grower die so our company is growing forty fifty percent on the low Ed. So it's it's all about how to maximize growth opportunities. It's it's about being strategic around. How do you increase your market opportunity? We call it. Tam Total addressable market in the CEO. Not Newer has to always be thinking about. How do I expand the market size? And that's a delicate balance. You need to be doing something. That is focused enough. That is repeatable. You know your ideal customer profile you in tech terms we call it a MVP minimal viable product. When you're getting started you know you have to be small enough that what you do you can be excellent at you but you need to have your eye on the horizon of hot ally auto increase the market opportunity. How do I make this bigger with every month? Quarter year that goes by and in russet exact target it was about expanding from selling the small businesses up to bigger enterprises so we had a segment component to growth. The second was geography. We started out very. Us centric and then we expand globally and then third was product restarted with permission based email but then we moved into mobile and social and lots of product adjacency so those were the three big levers of our growth and and the same old true really for most businesses is certainly tech businesses of. What's your segment strategy? What you're geographical strategy and then what your product strategy and hopefully can find ways to expand all three when you guys were looking to grow and expand and make big footprint outside of Indianapolis outside the country and even you know a a global world footprint you know white. Did you focus on as an as an industry or as a as an organization? Debt built your strategy. You know so like a better way of say. How did you build your strategy? That ultimately became something that can be repeatable and scaled up. I think part of it is is experimentation. You know trying trying. Different things to see what works and see how you can learn and just being creative and being resourceful so give an example in the in the early days of exact target. We were very thinly capitalized. You know scarce resources and the thought of opening an office in London for example was way beyond our reach. We didn't have the the knowledge the experience or the capital to do it however we started we started bringing clients on board you know in London in the UK and across Europe and started to realize that the solution we're bringing to market could work for companies and other geographies a creative way to bridge the gap was. We struck a partnership with a reseller in London who built their business around exact target technology. They became a dedicated. Kinda reseller and service partner and we had a promise that if things went well we'd looked to acquire them in full them in sometime in the future and and that's exactly what happens so it became a very cost effective low risk way for us to test weather. Our our product in our branding and our value would would work in other other parts of the world than was really interesting matters that ended up. That was our strategy in the UK that became our strategy in Australia in also became our strategy in Brazil. In a big driver growth was acquiring all three of those resellers where when we did the acquisition we already had customers. We already employees. We already know how hot operate net market so so I think a lot of it is just being resourceful and creative in thinking about what? Your future growth plans might look like in planning. Some SEEDS STARTS UP. Start to accelerate your learning and start to head you down that path. Finally as we begin to wrap up this episode. Say We're sitting here at the table. You have entrepreneur Who's at the point where they're ready to scale? They're at a point where they feel. Hey I'm ready to go. How would you being gone through this journey already? How would you coach them in getting started in taking those steps? I probably start with the notion of starting with the end in mind of looking out three to five years and really helping the CEO. Think about and put pen to paper on. What's our business? Look like what's so. Let let let's say let's say you're running. You run a company today. Matt has got the chance to really really grow. The question is what do you WanNa look like in twenty twenty five in in really thinking that through? What's our market position? How many employees do we have? What's our product offering? Look like where do we have offices? Are we domestic or international component? Really starting with the end in mind kind of framing out where we wanna look like and then work your way back in working your way back starts to really build a time line around. Wendy need to be making those investments to set yourself up in that position. That was something we did and it was extraordinarily successful. Because it's so easy to get into the trap of were you just feeling the operational pressure of hitting them on hitting a quarter super hard. Even look out one year in advance. But when you do that you end up being very tactical and there are times where you just have to float above the business in work on the business not in the business in bill the longer term plan and then hold yourself accountable to it so if you build that picture which WanNa look like three or four or five years down the road. You work on your kind of with your team you have conviction around it you realize. It's probably a stretch in things need to go right. But then you start to socialize with your board you socialize with your investors in then and you share it with your team when that happens. You're accountable you're accountable to dreaming big and and hitting that big vision in. I think that can be that can be a great catalyzing function to make decisions quicker to think more boldly to make sure that really you your eye on that long term again. Scott Dorsey managing partner at High Alpha Adventure Studio helping entrepreneurs conceive launch and scale new businesses. Also a former Kelly Grad. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom of being our guests on the show my pleasure. Thanks Matt Go hoosiers. This has been another episode of the Roi podcast presented by the Indian University Kelley. School of business. I'm your host Matt. Martel year on the show. Our mission is to help. Organizations make better business decisions. See you next week.
Part Two: How Indiana can decrease the talent shortage | Ep. 82
"The. Last week. We started a conversation with state workforce cabinet chairman Dany Lopez who shared the governor's vision and steps his team is now taking to make Indiana globally competitive. If you missed last week's episode a highly recommend you go back to part one because today's conversation picks up where we left off on this episode. We're covering what other cities are doing to drive success what the entrepeneurship landscape looks like here in Indiana. How higher education needs to change to support the growing economy? And what goals constitute a successful year for the workforce cabinet. Let's get to the podcast. Welcome to another episode of the ROI podcast presented by the Indian university Kelley school of business. I'm your host Matt Martel alongside associate dean Phil Pol here on the show. Our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions because we know that an organization is only as good as its leadership for those of you. Joining us for the first time, we want to welcome you to Kelly family. Our weekly podcast offers actionable tips, you can apply to your leadership organization instantly, those of you who have shared our content. We wanna say a huge, thanks because you've helped our show grow in such a big way. If you enjoy our content using the world to us, if you left us a review on your favorite podcasting at that helps to make our show more visible. And if you're looking to get a hold of us with any questions, you have some comments or you just want to recommend a guess for our show shoot us an Email to our ipod. That's our P O D at UP. Dot EDU. And now here is the final piece of this two part series associate dean, Phil Powell and the state workforce cabinet chairman Danny Lopez Danny thanks again for joining us in this two part series picking up where we left off from last week. I'm curious as you've got into the job as you looked around the country are there two or three regions that inspire you from outside of Indiana. I think states that are doing it will I think, you know, Tennessee is held up as as a model of league of her has limits predecessor, both made some significant investments, workforce, more importantly, they. Governor lead. It was it was his voice he had an Ashwell profile. And and so he kind of placed an emphasis it was a call to action of urgency behind it. And in in similar way to what we're doing. Now, it was a it was kind of a moonshot moment is how do we get the state galvanized around this issue because this is what's going to make a break the future of Tennessee? They've done a really nice job with their Tennessee promise in their drive to to that fifty five percent attainment goal. You know, people hold up Colorado's as an example. I think Colorado's got challenges when it comes to k twelve or post secondary funding, but they have done a nice shot, and creating mechanisms for apprenticeships and work based learning of that's extra mental it's outside of government. So it's flexible it works speed of business. It's business led and funded. So they've done a really nice job of getting into work with schools. So hit the nail head. There's elements structuralist that we've. Looked at as we thought about well, what what should Indiana, look like, you know, so a little bit here. If you look at state light Virginia, what they do the basic education, or you know, elements of that. But also states are you need and populations are unique and so- Colorado where you've got sixty percent of the population losing Denver. For example, that presents a really unique set of challenges, and it also gives them an opportunity to do some things differently than we would do in Indiana. I actually think it's it's that question if you apply if you ask that of governor all around the country, I think they're pointed in he, and I think when you when you look at graduation pathways, and what we put in place here and in the K twelve system, particularly specifically in the nine twelve space and now not only not only requiring academic progress towards diploma, but requiring the kids show, demonstrate employability skills and secondary writing as a as a prerequisite for graduation. That's not happening in other states. You know, we've we've. Made high-value certificate programs free at ivytech in Vincennes. We've you know, we did that sort of on the heels of Tennessee, Tennessee promise, our role numbers of surpass Tennessee's already. So so I think Indiana because of fiscal discipline because of kind of this pragmatism that I think we just have your both in an on partisan way both in the right and the left. I think you've got pragmatists that wanna solve problems, and we've been able to make progress on a lot of these issues, and I think we've become that standard in many ways. Now that doesn't mean there's not gaps. There's obviously occasional tamen gaps and other things, but as we referenced before we we were talking talking earlier, the percentage of you know, of stem gra- bachelor's degrees graduates in Indiana over the last two years has grown eight percent bachelor's degrees generally four percent. I mean, we we've seen -education team and the grow more importantly, probably I would argue more importantly, the growth for individuals twenty five to forty five has outpaced the national average for two consecutive years. And I think we're making gains with the population. That are going to drive the state forward anybody that knows we'll tell you those are really hard numbers move because your culture what we've discovered is that it's not a matter of resources. It's a matter of talking and realizing it's a win win win and reducing the barriers of communication right now. There's there are some lingering policies uses again thinking about what the cabinets role as we just had a series of recommendations that were submitted to the governor and the legislature just this month in October getting at some of you know, greasing some of the some of the tracks for on a career technical education to make it so much easier for schools to part of irregular with businesses and institutions of higher education. We thought we made recommendations around certain funding streams that ought to be tied together. So that we can start, narrowing where people need to go where businesses need to go to access resources or where k twelve studio virus occasion. Their points of. Interaction with state government, narrowing those to make it easy to navigate career Karinna vacation career coaching. I mean, and this is a we're trying to create local mechanisms because locals know best how do this? But how do we create these parts of the level fund them hold them to accountability measures and let them run without government interference from here. Those are the types of things there still are these barriers, and those are the types of things that we as a team working on to that easy as it can be for Kelly to say, we're gonna create these new types of partnerships. And by the way, we're gonna pull her employer fronts the table as well at the Kelley school. We talk a lot with entrepreneurs across many of the industries here in Indiana. So what's it like to be an entrepreneur at the highest level of state government? And what do you think it takes to move the needle do think we're moving the needle think this is an interesting roles different role of really had in in state or local government or federal government. I've been local federal government and I've been in the private sector as an entrepreneur. And this is a this is much more like that than it is like working in government, just because this didn't exist. We're building this everything from getting the flexibility from the federal government advocating lobbying for the flexibility from the federal government people to do this in the first place to to building the team, which we continue to build that. We've got a great team. But we're lean we're small mighty of smart people are thinking about this every day to doing things differently. I mean challenging the status quo. But that's what's exciting. We've got great people that work in say government in all across our agencies, but getting them to understand the roles differently and getting them to think differently about their deliverable who the client is. And and how we do that. That's a I mean, it's it's a it's a fascinating thing to be in the middle state government operating sort of in this in this entrepeneurship way, if we don't have this kind of structure, and we don't have this kind of approach it's impossible for us to match the pace again of change. I mean, we're just you can't move at the speed of government, and and expect business a catch up with the speed of business and our agencies get that beginning rolling the same version of shooting at the same targets is always easy. It's a little bit of challenges phone. We've we've had a great time. It also is as we as we've seen in Tennessee. We've seen in Colorado. You're this is only going to be as as as successful as the governor is willing to bag it, and you've seen that you know, he has put his capital sable. He said, this is the issue of the decade for the state of Indiana. It's it's important and near and dear to as anything. And so it helps when you work for somebody who's enthusiastic about this who wants to make change understands that the staff. Quote, wasn't enough who's willing to go out and challenge hoosiers. I mean, there aren't a lot of governors that are willing to stand up and say, look I understand where where we've been as state high school diploma is just not enough anymore, and you're gonna get left behind. So let's fix it. You know, obviously, higher education is an important part of this talent equation. And not everyone is going to get a college degree. In fact, that everyone needs a college degree, however statistic sane having a college degree greatly increases the likelihood of having a higher paying job more education, more money, more economic development. So Danny given where you sit in state government, what are some serious and specific challenges you would put at the feet of higher education. I mean, I think it's understanding where where you will plug in. So there's a couple of things I think you're right when it comes to post secondary success post secondary completion we are challenged. And I think it's of Irish -cation need to challenge themselves to think about what that means a little bit differently that we have in the past it isn't necessarily a bachelor's degree. It could be technical certificate. So you start to see a lot of universities that are betting technical tickets in that pathway to a bachelor's degree. And certainly we want as many people persisting through in graduating. And completing as as want to go through as we can. But we also need to think differently about what success looks like in post-secondary. So when we say high schools not enough. That's absolutely true. But it could be a a coating badge or it could be a software development badge or could be technical certificate in welding, or or could be Vassar degree and something or could be doctorate. I in something which would be fantastic as well. But how we look at these how we value and how we assigned success that that that that Monica of success to these different credentials is really being challenged now in higher Ed really needs to look in the mirror. And make some determinations about what it as well. But we do have a sixty percent attainment goal. I think not only do we have this attainable. Where you all logically know, how you fit in by getting more people through programs. How does that break down for African American has that breakdown for Hispanic students as a breakdown for underserved students generally rural versus urban suits. And how does the university structures in place continue to improve those persists. I mean, we've got we've got still a ton of work to be done in our completion rate. I mean, the fact the matter is that across our higher education system, probably twenty I think the numbers twenty five percent of kids actually graduate on time in four years so moving kids to some kind of completion in in in a in an easy way in a way that makes sense for them that's cost effective. The keeps debt down that gets them. Something of value. That's validated. By employers is the number one challenge for higher, Ed. But I think beyond that. We've had this convert the governor's ends conversation with your, you know, your presidents university presidents is what is higher it's role as almost agents of the state. Again, not just in providing information, but in keeping talent here in moving our homegrown companies to the front of the line when it comes to recruiting. We don't we don't do nearly enough of that of touting as universities are homegrown companies were as viable options for kids to work and the companies that have headquartered here have significant presence here. It's wonderful when kids leave the Silicon Valley, that's wonderful thing. And we encourage academic success. But we love those kids stay where for Jasper engines or GE aviation or lily or comes as well. And so we've got to be as universities thinking about what what role we play a little bit differently as builders of state economy and not just as providers information. Finally, I want to talk about the winds Danny from your perspective as workforce cabinet share looking into the future year from now what are going to be wins for the Indiana state economy will significant jumps in. Our team rates if we continue to see significant jumps in our team rates than we know that the various mechanisms that feed into that whether that's early education or eighth grade math or high school graduation or graduate pathways or college completion our feet are feeding all those things are feeding that attainment rate. So we know the mechanisms of working I think to the degree that we can maintain our labor or keep growing labor participation which is already above the national average has been for two consecutive months. So to the degree that we can maintain high labor participation and keep our employment down. That's that's a win. Some of that is going to be valid implores. We need to know. We're starting to see positive feedback come in. But we need to know from employers that the Talbot producing the state whether that's through you or through AVI tech or through eleven fifty academy or Kenzi academy is what employers actually want. I can't tell you the number of times that I'm with employers, and this we won't hire graduates from that program because they say, it's what we want not what we want. So if we can get validation mechanism were employers are. Higher education here, and k twelve here's what we want to see, and we will work with you to get their Bill at the curriculum Bill at the standards, and the competencies that should be embedded there, and let's get them. So, you know, they're actually funneled into our shops and meaningful careers lifelong learning. So I think to the degree that that's happening that success. And then I think there are things that there are pieces of the public just won't see the amount of collaboration that we're seeing between agencies. I've been around I've been state government for about eight years have been around steak over for ten years, we moved Indiana and some four fashion I've never seen this level of collaboration. Never seen agency heads really looking to better not just better utilize their funding, but better utilize funding in in ways that impact programs that are outside of their direct scope of authority. Right. And so that that collaborations because finally we're having discussions around the workforce issue that are holistic that are multi. Agency, that are not silo and to the degree that we continue to have that the better use of resources in those outcomes. The governor set metrics around, you know, by twenty twenty three we're gonna have a Jag program in every school jobs for America's graduates program. Every school's got incredible success. He's actually national chairman. We're gonna put it in every school. We've got a thou-, you know, he's set a goal thousand inmates with high-value certificates in two years. Worrying and surpass it in your one for the number of folks with some college for the number of folks without a high school diploma for the number of Prentice shippers he has set metric so we've got hard measures that were measuring success against. But I think so much of the good work, which was exciting so much. Good work is stuff that the public doesn't necessarily see all the time. And that's okay. With me. So let's recap Indiana is working to become a global player on the economic development stage, the governor and his team recognized the potential of the Hoosier state and are making efforts to draw the attention of major companies the hulkah- ministration understands there is a talent short not just here in Indiana. But across the globe, and there are many ways to increase strong workforce, though, population growth and recruiting outside town are important. The governor's administration wants to focus on taking the great people. We already have here and help them gain the education necessary, whether that's getting through high school gaining a trade certificate or completing higher education. It's all about ease of access and working together questions. They're trying to answer include how can K through twelve institutions better assimilate students for the modern workforce how can higher education help prepare students for college early. How can companies with a large presence in the community in? Vest into the population to prepare individuals for successful career path. All of this is an effort to make Indiana an attractive place for companies to call the Hoosier state home. So as the governor's administration moves forward, it's important to remember they cannot accomplish this alone. The key is collaboration from all of us every individual's a leader to some degree. And as we say on the show an organization, or in this case, our homes, our schools, our communities and our state are only as good as person in the mirror. This has been another episode of the ROI podcast, presented by the Indiana University Kelley school of business. I'm your host Matt Martel alongside associate deemed Phil Powell where we work hard to help organizations. Make better business decisions. We'll see next.
So you finally started your company, now what? | Ep. 115
"This has been the hardest part for me as a business. Owner is being able to separate yourself from the business and motionlessly as welcome to another episode of the Roi Podcast is presented by the Indiana University Kelley. School of business. I'm your host Matt. Martel up alongside Associate Dean Phil Powell as you know. Our shows mission mission is to help organizations make better business decisions so for those of you who are joining us for the first time. We just want to welcome you to the Kelly family and don't be shy. Hi If if you're wrestling with a question as as an entrepreneurial leader as a Middle Management leaders anyone In an organization that would liked to have their questions answered. Send US an email to. Roi pod that's R. O. A. P. O. D. AT IEP Y DOT Edu. And we'd love to offer you some feedback back you connect with some of our faculty and as well if you have a guest that you love to nominate for our show. So this is a really fun episode For those of you who have been longtime longtime listeners to the podcast you may recognize our next guest but we decided to do a check in with the CEO and founder of Crimson Media Media. Shane Simmons Shane. Welcome to the show. This is so crazy that I'm on the other side of the Roi podcast here after a a few years since its inception and I am absolutely honored to be in front of you guys here. Today it is pretty surreal and the coolest thing is is you know you worked your way not the other side. It wasn't something that we just kind of Hannity or whatever I mean this is something that's been you've been building your own enterprise for for for a while now and We'd love to dive into that and gain some of your some of your wisdom so first off before we started getting to the meat of the conversation. Talk to us about you. Know your new venture that you're on your podcast that you're also hosting as well. Yeah so you know about four years ago I started guest doing some consulting getting work as as a marketer For few different dental offices and at that time you know I was I was working full. Time at the Kelley School of business and Just really wanted to get my feet wet though in in marketing and You know the the dental industry where I I knew some people so long story short. It started there Just working putting in and some hours on the side while working fulltime job and Throughout you and I think we'll touch on this. I'm sure but throughout the process of working at the Kelley School well and also picking up some mentors I really you know I kinda tell people Kinda got an informal NBA and really found that. I loved business this and I wanted to get further into that. And so anyway Here we are today Crimson. Media's dental marketing firm we focus on online advertising advertising online marketing for dentists and try to make it different and make dentists seem more accessible and share their stories. And so that's that's the kind of the mission of the company and what we do and on the side I also run a is called the nothing but the tooth dentistry podcast where we talk about. Marketing picketing in leadership and help Dennis Freedom in their practice and so That's where we are today and Of course just superstock to to be here and and a AH. Oh a lot to the Kelley school so Shane again destroy. Our listeners are clear you started the Roi podcast. I remember sitting in my office. We had had the idea and you ran with it so that was. We'd like to think that was your first entrepreneurial endeavor and I'm just I love the story that I know you had an interest in continuing formal studies in the Kelley school but really because of our our work together and interviewing different A faculty members and Disruptive Business Leaders in Indianapolis that that kind of gave you the as you said before the informal that confidence and that knowledge to launch talk about that some more. Yeah I want the. I want our listeners to understand this it's think about all of these episodes that you consume the content that you're consuming. You're getting a raw interview by some of the brightest minds in the Indianapolis area and Beyond and so you think about all of the knowledge. That is out there through these podcasts. You know in in my case I was the one doing the interviews like Matt is today and you start to pick up on a few different things you know how they think How leaders act you know what are some of the common characteristics that great people have That do successful and big things in their life and so you you start to As you surround yourself with that and I'm a firm believer it's you really are the people you surround yourself with you become that and so I was not that when we started this podcast I was confident. Young Man but really didn't know what I WANNA do in life and had no thoughts of business but after you know recording these episodes episodes G- getting around these great minds not to mention some of the people within the Kelley school itself in faculty members Etcetera. I learned that this was was something that I could take. All these different pieces of information that had gathered and apply it to my true passion is well and so it's just so funny how it works accent and people who are listening to this. You know you are getting a not. It's just crazy to me that you can get this kind of content for absolutely no charge. You can plug it in and while you're driving to work. Do you know listening while you're on your way to class whatnot and hear from some of these people and so I tell people you know it's it's you can be whatever you want to be. You can do whatever you WANNA do. You've got to surround yourself with people who've been there done that and that's really what this podcast in the Kelley school was able to provide me so definitely definitely It's it's an interesting story. How it all worked out in the end? I love to get into talking about something you said where while you were working on this podcast casting during your time you said that there was this moment where you just weren't really sure of what life's next up. Look like you know you're trying to figure out all right. Do I want to stick in media. Don't sticking public public relations and then you had this kind of epiphany of this entrepreneurial journey it's something that you totally didn't even think I'm sure dentistry was never like kind of in your crosshairs crosshairs leading up to this point so for those listening. Who are have this these ideas or just uncertainty or wherever? They're at in their own career. The journey what were some of the steps you took in finding that dental marketing was going to be your starting point. Yeah that's a good question. So Oh one thing I tell. People is imagine this you know when I was working at the Kelley School. I loved my job like I loved what I did. And so that was the hard part about figuring out. Do you want to leave a job that you really do love and enjoy and work with great people and move on to something that is completely unknown territory where you who are you know statistically speaking probably GonNa fall flat on your face and so You know with me. The whole the whole thing was I I knew I wanted to makes some sort of you know large impact on a number of people's lives and I also knew I had it kind of skill set that was unique and so how dentistry kind of came about as I was literally researching so many different niches that I could possibly you know break into and offer something. That's a little bit different. You know something with a twist on it because you mentioned I had a media background and so I thought there was a way to implement storytelling in some form or fashion in an industry. It just what that industry was and so after research nut medical home service industry you name it. I found that dentistry was really unique. In the fact that it really really is something that transforms people's lives if you think about it because a lot of people their confidence comes from whether or not they can smile or not their teeth cosmetics. Plus I had a lot of like dental troubles growing up as a child anyway and so I thought about how that transformation was in my life and then I sold the industry in itself and so man. They're a really not sharing the story here like what it really is doing. Its stock photos of model smiling. But it's not like sharing during the actual transformation that has on people's lives and it was literally like a light bulbs you know went off my head and I was like this is it. This is how I can start to disrupt something in a very established industry where marketing firms most of them were corporate and most dentists use the same firms as I could bring a twist to this where they can actually share. What makes them different? What makes their patients different and how it's changed their patient's lives and so that's kind of win at all connected is when I realized that the dental industry Just everything looked the same. Everything was Kinda Blah is what I tell people and that it has the most promise in my is to really share something that's beautiful that's unique and I felt like that. I offered the the solution to kind of bridge the gap in and make that happen. So let's talk about that first initial step I do WanNa get into some of the maybe later later steps but at least that very first initial. Hey this is. This is the turning point. I'm all in and I WANNA turn this into my fulltime fulltime deal. What were some of the biggest obstacles that you had overcome bridging all of these webs webs of ideas and culminating all to specifically dental marketing? I'm running for it. Yes so I think it came down to a one good. Do you have the confidence to think that this is something that you can sustain long-term because as I brought on a couple of clients and basically I worked for free starting starting out. I mean that was kind of my way to get in. It was like I'll work for free for you. This is my game plan. This is what I'll do. All I ask is after a few months we reconnect. If you're happy happy with what I've done leave a testimonial review for me. So that way I could leverage that in the future and so two things one. It helped me build confidence in myself but to Hewitt also allowed me to have social proof from someone to use in the future so once I narrowed down a district just went all in. I didn't start dabbling in some other industries while I went all industry and as far as like when I knew that I had to go full time with it. I think I had about five clients that I was actively working working with. These are like monthly retainers right so I had five clients that I was working with and the time that I was putting in For those clients to get the work done and for them was equally matching the time that is spent in a fulltime job so I was working about eighty hours a week there for several months. Nighttime time you know was dedicated all towards off my business and then daytime obviously for the full time job and so I realized that that wasn't going to be sustainable while it was comfortable verbal for me because I knew okay if I lost a client or something here or there I was going to be financially stable. I knew that I wasn't gonNA be able to grow it any further past that point Because I just didn't have the capacity the time to do so and so that's when I decided right when I was consistently hitting those eighty hour weeks I was like okay We got to do something here. And so that's that's when I decided to kind of make the leap. It was when the time I was having to put in match the full-time job that I had. I'm curious when did you go from sort of volunteering into cash flow and then how did you price had you figure out what to charge. I think that's a question that all our listeners transport business wrestle with how do you that's an interesting project. Trajectory go from a price of zero. Truly what you hope is a premium price right talk about talk about that. Journey turns of the price going up yup at so I did one month of of some work and then after the woman it was lead generations what we were doing so we were running online ads. It's for particular clients who were promoting Dental implants and for those who are familiar with the dental industry. It's it's high in procedure that basically replaces missing teeth With a screw that goes into the Jawbone essentially and I was running these online ads for his clients and my first client that I had we we ran for free and he spent a thousand dollars in an ad spin which is what I had recommended to him said. I think we can get good results. He close one hundred thousand dollars in a dental care hair from that one month of working together so after month one. He said you're hired. What a what a what I pay you and so at that point is when I had to figure you're out okay? What do I charge and so it was a few different things one? It was research in the current and see what people were already charging again. I did have a few mentors. Who are running their own own marketing company? So I kind of had an idea there and then to what's the value that I'm providing that business owner right so by the time the efforts verts that we're putting in our creative process. What is that worth? And so that's kind of how I decided to determine you know what the price was and it's funny because today you know I. I was charging. I think my first charge was like fifteen hundred dollars a month to manage their their lead as one of his charging. And then today that price has gone up. Just because we've realized the value of it and also as you refine it more and more You also get a better system in place to but to answer. Your question is really after one month of working with two different clients when I decided okay now I deserve to get paid. I think and and then they didn't argue about it either. That's amazing and I want to go into the some of those those next steps. I mean you're sitting now in a place where you you now are starting to get actual employees into your organization to your company You starting hit Major. Your benchmarks mean. You're not just working out of your own Home Office. I mean we're sitting here in your brand new office. which is incredible town? Fisher's a cool place to be absolutely really and so that becomes a think a lot of entrepreneurs of all shapes and sizes wrestle with or a wind. Do I a pull the trigger to hire someone you know how. How am I going to be confident enough to that? We're GONNA have enough cash coming in consistently where I can support because now you're not just worried about yourself and your family but now you're going to be responsible for you know sue every person you hire and their family as well and if the business doesn't do well I mean it's GonNa trickle down so obviously that comes with a lot of weight in deciding so why we're talk through some of those difficulties in answering that question on when bringing bringing someone into your team makes sense. Yeah we have the natural tendency at least I think entrepreneurs do where they want to do. Everything themselves for for the longest time because they feel like their ideas. It's like all these things that they WANNA put a into action. But what I've realized and studied is at the those entrepreneurs preneurs usually drive their business straight to the ground. They are great at putting the pedal to the metal. And just you know shooting up in the air at revenue skyrocket and getting it to the point where it's like. Wow fast growth. You know amazing. But they're also usually the same people who won't let go who also drive the business to the ground as well and so. What I learned quite simply was time when I realized that even full-time I wasn't able to provide you know the time I needed to actually actually do the fulfilment do the work? That's when I need to bring in some help and so what I would encourage young Startups out there. Is I start. Start out and hire either part time employee or contractor. Okay because what's GonNa do is two things it's going to allow you to get some help on what you need done to. It's going to help you manage as well because if you've never managed people it's a whole learning process ended of itself and so by hiring hiring a contractor or somebody who's part time you don't have that full time Pressure I guess where you can kind of test the waters see if one you have the right person but to If that's the right position that you need help for so. That's kind of my advice to people. Is You know just figure out you know before you go out and hire a bunch of full-time people try some contractors interest rates and part time employees. See if that's what helps move. The business forward helps free up your time and ultimately in my opinion as the founder whereas the CEO. Your job is to grow the business and you cannot grow the business if you are working in the business every single day It's just you're not not going to be able to do it. You need to be out there promoting you need to be out there shaking hands sharing ideas and so that's where a team is absolutely critical and to meeting those goals and to be quite honest with you guys. I'm still in that phase right now where I'm just building the right team trying to figure out. What is the right chemistry? Build the right culture in here and what are things as I want to let go of and what are things that I still am not ready to let go of and I think that's all part of this. This journey stems into trust being very big pillar of that. Let go process because as you said a lot of people including myself you know you get involved invested into an idea and you. Wont You know that you could just do it better than anyone else. Because it's your. Id you don't have to slow down. Take the time to explain what what the process is going to be. You don't have to slow down for a second. You can just run and gun as fast as you want but like you said I mean it does have a negative downfalls lung term so for you as your wrestling through you. Some of building trust with people. What have you had to do as an entrepreneur to reflect and then how do you overcome some of those insecurities of letting go? Oh and what if they fail. Yes so I basically came to terms that you were going to mess up time. I'm going to mess up team. Members are going to mess up and that's that's okay because really were our best lessons are learned is when we fail at something or we have an air. Those are learning lessons and so I kind of had to come with terms that which is not easy and it's struggle daily but I realized that that's all part of the process like that is business right so that's kind of like part number one to that. I'd say the second part is realizing that I have you big goals big aspirations for this company and I know that unless I build a stellar team around me and I trust them I let them work through some of the kinks that they may have We're not going to get where I want and where I believe we can get this company. And so that's really the motivation behind being. Okay with letting go trusting others and being okay if there are mess ups along the way because nothing's perfect in life and in order to get to the point where we WANNA go We're going to have to go along that process and I will say this too and this has been the hardest apart from me as a business owner is being able to separate yourself from the business emotionally as well because for the longest time and I still struggle with this if a client has some. There's always something that happens or goes wrong. I take it personally where it affects me as a person but I realized it was something you know. It's business to business. There was doubtful there. It doesn't necessarily mean the person is mad at you as a human being. It's like something along with the business and I think that's something. That's hard hard for entrepreneurs starting out is being able to separate yourself from the business a little bit and say listen. You know things are going to happen. But it doesn't affect who I am as a person or what what people see in me as a person so Shannon and put my professor cap on here. You're in a stage now. Where I think you're figuring out how to scale right? Take off and when you look at the literature. It's the best thing there's there's two signals that you know that can scale well first of is is a certain level of standardization right. Where in your business? Every Dennis is going to be different. But you gotTa build a service delivery model that's either modular modular our standard and it could be completely standardized because everybody's got different stuff but the more you can standardize the easiest repeat it right in repetition and and and and low ramp up costs. That's the key that's less friction as a key to to growing fast. So that's you know it's a defined a process that does that. I WanNa give me give me a great how you doing there but more reportedly have you gotten to the point. Now where you you might have a customer tomorrow appear in front of you and you know that if you meet that customer's needs even if they're willing to pay a lot of money it's GonNa throw friction into what should be a standard a more standardized process that allows you to grow faster have reached the point where you see you say no to certain customers. That's a great question so I'm learning learning a ton about SAP's or standard operating procedures and so that hired a coach a few months ago where basically they are putting operations in my every l.. Single thing I do from booking conference room for a podcast to service delivery for a client. We are building everything out and it's it's kind of funny. How how they've done it? But it makes so much sense and this is something that I hope our listeners who are maybe needing to build S. O. P.'s for whether it's their job or their business could take note John Is. There's a piece of software out there. It's called Loom It's a google extent chrome extension. Basically what it allows you do is screen record and then share a link after after you've recorded the video and so basically what we've done is every single thing that we do in the business service delivery wise customer communication. You name it we record one of these videos and then what happens is we put those videos under the task that it corresponds to in our project management system and then I have virtual assistant who goes goes in and document transcribes. Basically those videos bullet point by bullet point on exactly what to do. And that's how we create our soap's essentially so that okay. We have a directory of every single task that gets done for each specific. Client each specific service whatnot when it gets done. And everything's documented video wise and through text text so that's number one is. We are getting to the point where everything is a standard operating procedure and it could be handed off. Someone could see it. They'll know exactly what to do. And they go and so that has been a big help in starting to scale that process the stance of your second question. Is You absolutely get people who I think that you know. Their their business is more important. Maybe than than your other clients businesses and want you to go into excessive sesame links links at time to provide a service and to answer your question we are now at that point. Where if I see something coming through where it's going to throw everything off in the business you know whether it's extra attention that they need or they want something done completely differently than the way we typically do it? I usually really. We'll just say it's not a good match because what I have learned is at the beginning. I was taking any revenue that I could get right because we were cash-strapped we were. We were moving fast and and I would make it work what. I'm realising is over time. We want to build long-term client relationships and those particular cases that you mentioned Fill all those tend to be Clients who want special attention which is fine but if they want you to break the way that you normally do things usually usually it's going to cause friction throughout the relationship and then ultimately it's not going to end well for both parties and so that's what I have found is really to increase customer retention which is super important for us. We need to find clients who match with our philosophical beliefs but also are on board with how we do things and therefore four. That's what's going to allow US scale at the end of the day. So basically the amount of revenue and those sort of things don't really matter to me when it comes to these types of clients. They may aby raiders. Pitch out a lot of money for our services. But if I know it's not going to work It's going to be detrimental in the long run changes one. Follow up where you are are relatively feel like you can be however you want to distinguish that qualitatively quantitatively gives a sense of what you think you can achieve with this new this differentiated model versus where you are are. We haven't even scratched the surface yet of what we're going to do. I truly believe that I feel like we are. I mean. We're still at Ground Zero here. Compared to the where we're going to end up. I see you just you know I will speak to the revenue of it but I can just say from the impact that we're having we are certainly Known in the dental communities now specifically online communities like we are one of the four or five companies that people are starting to mention and talk about in their facebook communities and groups which is awesome but there are still so many people out there who don't know who we are and what we do and they have amazing stories that they can share with their with their communities. And they're doing amazing work as well. And so you know I feel like we are if I had to quantitatively put it ninety percent of what we could hit down on the road and not just saying that You know in in blowing hot air. I really truly believe that and I also believe that as I continued to bring on smart people in the business. They're going to be able to teach me things that you know. I don't even know so that way. We can move up because I can't do this alone like I have got to have the right the people around me. And that's what I'm excited about now. Moving forward so as we get ready to wrap up as you sit back and you reflect you know with your time at Kelly especially during this podcast into where you are sitting now talk about some of the biggest takeaways you received Just through this podcast asks journey on how it shaped you to be the entrepreneur leader that you are today absolutely I would say the number one lesson I learned doing the podcast working at the Kelley school being surrounded by the minds at the Kelley School is that he'll perfectionism leads to paralysis. And I think that's a big problem that people have is. They may have an idea whether it's starting a business or just Applying for different position in their company But they feel like they're not ready yet. I have news for. You'll never be ready. You'll never be where you thank. You are because we always our own worst critic you have to again. I learned this from very successful. People who've gone out there and when after it you have to take responsibility and just go for it. Sometimes I mean that is ultimately what you have to do. You have to take a risk you have to get out of your comfort zone and one of my other favorite sayings is a comfort zones a beautiful place but nothing ever grows there and that's ultimately the trip as if you're not making yourself uncomfortable in some way or another another every single day. You're not pushing yourself to your full combat capabilities and so my advice to you out. There listening is whether whether you want to start a business or not. It's just you know go out there you'll give it everything you've got learn. Don't be afraid to mess up and push yourself out of your comfort zone own and you'll be amazed at what you can do Shay. What was your favorite episode? Oh my gosh I I. Should've I should've studied for this question. I would say Is a couple one. One is obviously Interviewing the governor is you know governor holcomb is going to be one of the top ones always because we got to go into the governor's mansion and that was just amazing I would say they my second favorite episode that we did was probably in the beginning stages with Charlotte Western House Renfro and the reason that is says because for the people listening we get got in a little What was that little room? Basically on campus a little booth it was about two hundred degrees. I felt felt like in that thing. And we would jam in there. And there's just a lot of great memories that I had with that but also The episode itself was just neat because the way that on bullies right on bullying in the workplace. And I just thought that the episode was great because everybody could relate to it no matter where you were in your career. I just felt like everybody is dealt with that so I think that would be One of my other favorite interviews that I've done which is awesome because that episode to this day as of this recording is still the the number one most downloaded episode of all the podcasts. And we're at As of this recording right now we just launched one hundred eleventh episode so it just says something into you know your hard work and everything that you put forward to build this podcast aware it was and so it's just it's just so much fun to to come back and reconnect again. This is Shane Simmons. CEO and founder of the Crimson Media and all encompassing dental marketing solution. He's also the host of nothing but the tooth podcast be sure sure to subscribe and check it out and also if it wasn't for shamed this podcast would not be here today so Shane thank you so much for being our guest on the podcast at thank. Thank you guys for having me I. I love the Roi still an avid listener and and keep doing amazing things out there and people. Listening these episodes are pure value. Listen to them and don't just listen but take action on the advice that you hear from those out there. I mean there's so many brilliant minds don't be afraid to go out there take action guys. Thank you so much for having me I. I love the school and you guys are like family to be Great Shane. Congratulations thank you. This has been another episode of the Roi podcast presented by the Indian University Kelley. School of business. I'm your host Matt Martin Alongside Associate Dean Phil Powell and former host Shane. Simmons our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions. We'll see you next week
What an MBA taught me but my kids made me learn | Ep. 152
"And I will never forget those words. This isn't vacation isn't rob and at that moment I was roughly seven hundred thousand dollars in personal dad might marriage long been over but I hadn't even had a nickel to do anything legally about that. and. It was time to face Mason for to me to face myself my mirror, my bank account my children and regroup. Welcome to another episode of the Roi podcast presented by the Indiana University Kelley School of business. I'm your host Matt Martel here on the show. Our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions. So if this is your first time joining us, we want to welcome you to the Kelly family and just remind and for everyone listening that we exist to help you grow personally grow in influence within your leadership and help your organization as a whole grow. So you can be the best self and thus bringing so many more people with you along the journey. So. If you have a question that you're wrestling with as a leader, maybe you'd like to figure out what our faculty are researching or tap into some of the knowledge we have here at. Kelly. or You just know of an individual who would make great guest for our show citizen emailed to Roi pod that's Roi P. OD at IEP. Dot Edu. So in higher education, it is like alphabet soup it seems out there. There's so many buzzwords when you're trying to learn especially when you're in the NBA program anywhere in the country or any business degree for that matter, you hear things like culture organizational values, mission vision. Heck. You even hear the term soft skills but what the heck is all of this mean and it's really interesting because some of these. Words some of these words are extremely powerful in what they mean, what they represent and what they are but yet I think we use them so much or they're so diluted because her so many different definitions across the board that it tends to get lost well. Today we have a very special treat with you. We are going to sit down with the Entrepreneur Speaker and author of what an NBA taught me, but my kids made me learn. Be Ray, who focuses her book a lot on the soft skills within business be just first off. Welcome to the ROI. PODCAST. Thanks that I'm delighted to be here. So let's get into the thesis of this book. You know the thirty thousand foot view level. Obviously, you know you went to a very well renowned business school business school to get your Mba and I mean, obviously, you'd think many individuals think oh Well. It you go to Harvard you learn everything there is to know about business you're set never have to learn anything else but you're making a case that there was missing pieces within your education. That you had to learn outside the classroom. So talk about your book and what it is the book is basically highlighting that Harvard is an incredible place for learning people go. So I actually go through and talk about the environment in the structure and what Harvard specifically does to ensure they become a great listener that you are wonderful with collaborating just to give you a couple of quick examples as you still listen to eighty different people at once in the classroom nobody person said, I know how to build on or contradict and so one of our professors said you all came here with a story to tell. But you leave here world-class listeners and so that's an example of harbor doing an incredible job teaching people skills, and they did and I'm so grateful for that opportunity another example of collaboration the amount of work we had was far greater than any one person could handle. So in the book, I walk through how we all established. Sweet call them study groups little four person groups that would meet at seven am before the classes and we would kind of delegate out who dug deep in Egypt the cases and so. Herbert. Doesn't say here's a curriculum for people skills, but it creates an environment where you're going to learn a lot about what we all these. Skill. Soft skills as you say, which by the way are pretty hard right. But what I learned over time is the best way to hone people. Skills is to try to raise some in my home and that was parenting and so as great as Harvard was an is. Parenting being apparent learn the stakes are higher when you're holding one of those little nuggets and trying to raise them in the world and so it was through parenting that I honed people skills that were already taught or two which had been exposed. Let's get into. You know before we dive in really in depth with his book let's start defining when you say. Soft skills because obviously you know like I said our intro it. It's one of those words I think that people get tone deaf to cut thrown out so much or they're just such a litany of definitions out there that it's you know it's kind of hard to graphs grasp. So let's talk about you know when you mentioned soft skills, what are you referring to? I'm referring to executive leadership and what I would call people skills. So the kinds of things I talk about our collaboration delegation motivation gratitude attitude Those sorts of things that I believe with the right. You can move the needle. So we're actually making a difference and by the way I think it's more important than anything else than. Technical skills then honing product today anything you know if you move five percent on your people skills that you're going to have twice the impact if you make your product ten times as. Powerful or fast over. With you know ten different new features I think in learning those people skills, which is not sales sales is a conglomeration of many different people, skills, our customer service, those sorts of things i. think that's a good deal delineation to make talking about. You know it's not just learning something simply for the benefit like you saying of sales per se or. Making you a better. person but just making you a better, you know leader better influence or better just individual that's going to transcend. You know into family life and and other things I love what you said in the beginning about Harvard talking about you know everyone says you have a story to tell you know and so I want to know what was your story? No, talk us through the journey of how you arrived at this epiphany of man I went to prestigious place. Yeah. I learned some of the greatest lessons just in my own home with my family. Right. Oh thank you so much. So I had the privilege of taking about years off and I actually raised my children unabridged list island. So big city girl went to country mouse and my son for example, was the smartest kid in first second and third grade in the whole school but he was also the dumbest because he was the only one so. Do, we land and very wonderful life. And when that, when it was time to go back I, I was afforded that opportunity because I had sold the company. Of A paycheck, took many years off to be a stay at home mom and then it was time to return. And at that point had lost a ton of confidence. What kind of skills that I have. I hadn't been in boardrooms hadn't been doing public speaking. I had been writing proposals. What what what could I do to offer a company? A lot of diaper-changing. PTO meetings, I had a lot of bike rides. So what happened was that was the point where my career took off. And I kept looking around thinking how did that happen? What what's going on here I was flooded by thank you notes I was running a nonprofit we were helping literally hundreds of startups in when I started asking myself the question, why are we getting these? Thank you notes what are we doing? That's helping these people what am I doing? What skillset do I have and then I asked the most important Russian. Which is, where did I get that skill set? Where did I get the skillset to help this company meet the metric capitalist that they need to hone their product to attract this customer to find the right business partner and make sure they're incentives aligned where did I get those skills? And I asked myself that question I considered a number of answers with the main answers I considered were I went to Harvard Business School is that where I got that skill and I'd break down. I had two decades with entrepreneurs, is that where I got that skill? I worked in over and over the answer to where did I get the skill to bring people together to collaborate to do some creative thinking are some problem solving was I have a mom? I had been put in the position to answer questions, solve a problem, find a new solution as a parent, and that's where the book began. Thank you for sharing that story that's really incredible and I want to you know go into. Now you work with a lot of. A lot of leaders within industries and you know you're traveling the country speaking and sharing your wisdom you've learned I WanNa start by asking where are. Some areas or maybe a specific area where organizational leaders simply miss the mark or maybe overlook when it comes to. Incorporating soft skills or possessing certain soft skills. District question while there's two major ways and one is that we forget to focus on it is that comes naturally and so we feel as though. that. Just is who the person is and we can't improve it or. Or make it better in the in the reality of what I've found is there isn't a magic answer, Tuesday's like focused negotiation et Cetera I put some tips and tricks in what's worked for me, but even just the invitation to consider. So I have ideas that use that I use for my family around gratitude. Use the same ones but if I invite you to consider the power of gratitude or I invite you to consider the power of bringing positive energy to a meeting or negotiation or to a hard conversation with A. Employees. Than what I'm allow you to reflect on your own situation, tell your own story and I'm inviting you to improve that lever in your own soft skills, and so what corporations do where they're missing the mark is because there isn't one right way to do some of these sock skills. We don't bother to talk about them at all, and so we lose the whole invitation of trying to improve. So that's area number one. Area Number two is the why I wrote the book and they're why is that in on the cover of the book I'm sitting on a jungle gym in like visit in business attire and the reason is that's a nod to Cheryl, somber? Because Cheryl Sandberg. Of facebook wrote, leaning said, that are career paths are not linear, not a linear ladder corporate ladder that we climb. It's a jungle gym and we need to think of wherever we are sitting on the jungle gym as a place where we can learn and grow and change in impact and to me the why I wrote the book is that people think of parenting those who are applying for a job and those are hiring as sort of a black smudge something we hide from Arlington profiles something. We don't look at or mention in an interview. We don't put it on our resume and. I, WANNA change that I want to let people give themselves credit for all of the things that they've done in their life and all of the areas that they've been able to learn and grow and impact and parenting is right up there. So. There's also this no negative perception. Sometimes, some people view soft skills as a very negative thing or maybe more as a as a weakness Oh you gotta show Oh weakness in order to you know things like empathy or you know being understanding about know something So how do you coach people through reshaping or re re changing their perspective of how to approach soft skills and buy into it? I don't think I do coach people on that I don't know if this is the right analogy but one of the lines in the book is says every great mother trying to feed her kid Broccoli right so I didn't tell my kids. They had to eat Broccoli. I just ate it and said, it was delicious. Sometimes, they took that as an example. So I don't coach someone in explained that being vulnerable or being authentic or being week is a great way to being strong but I do serve as that example. There are places in the book of that you might cry talk about having seven, hundred, thousand dollars, a personal dead I talk extensively about failures that I have had, and I think that those invitations bring down guards and allow other people to see strength where they might have otherwise seeing weakness where they start to see connection in the areas where they would have been afraid to be separate. And I'm sure for this for you. Specifically I'm sure it brought about a sense of vulnerability because here you are having to open up your whole you know your world, your personal, world, Your Business World everything which you know kind of what you were saying earlier I think there is still kind of a remnant from old business practices of work stays separate from home and family and there's you know you keep it. You know Monday through Friday nine to five is hey I I'm work me and then on the weekend I put my hair down and be Mimi yet. I think there are a generations start coming in. There's they're bringing in personal you know personal habits because of like look. I'm me throughout like regardless of you know. So so in that state of vulnerability, you know, how are how would you coach individual leaders to kind of you know let down some of that some of that guard they may have put up on I'm. Being separate from work because they don't want you know be viewed negatively or they don't want maybe it's just they don't want their. I guess those who are. There that they're leading they don't want them to you view them any other way than having respect for authority that's put put in place if for for better better words. Sure. So I think actually the trick is earning that respect. I, and being really clear on that vision. So the trick of being vulnerable isn't to start necessarily with vulnerability, but if you have a Clear Vision for where your company's going and you know what success looks like, and you can articulate what success looks like owned. By the way you can articulate what success looks like for each individual. So we have key performance indicators that we know where we're going all of these traditional things are very, very, very important and we can't get Salafi on them. But when we have that call it like a skeleton framework where that is strong insecure. You'RE GONNA. Do Better achieving that framework if you're real. This is what I'm personally excited to lead the in direction because it allows me to pay for my kids to go to college and that's important for me or I have this illness in my family or I'm taking care of my elderly parents. Whatever it is actually is at your core motivating you is excellent. But if you do it without a framework and it feels like the teen could just flow in the wind with you. That's problematic and I think that's where people have gotten off the rails is they didn't have the rails in the first place and and therefore. SAW skills got a bad name if you. WANT WANNA. Go back a little bit too part of your story. You know I'm sure as you're writing it. There were there were many moments like you're saying you expose lot of your failures as a way of Hey, look this is where I was, but it's not defining me like it's GonNa a moving forward despite. To talk about one, those specific moments may be, what was your toughest leaning lesson in this journey or a better way to define it would say what was your most defining moment? A lot of times failure can be the defining moment that ultimately launch you to where you're supposed to be. Well. Let's hope I get to where I'm supposed to be on that path But one moment that I'll share with you is what I call my Cindy Lou who moment. So we all know that in dealer who is the beautiful little girl in the WHO in the story of the rich and at one point the greatest shopping that Christmas tree up the chimney and she comes downstairs AC- any what are you doing and he got caught Well. I. Had a situation where my life marriage financial stability had all falling apart and it was a summer where we still. Had the title of a home that we was our dream home I mean it was such a dream home that the tiles in the wall where he painted some with my children's fingerprints we were never ever ever going to leave this beautiful home and yet I haven't made a mortgage payment in six or seven months, and so it was minutes before we were losing it. And I was in such a place bat what I did was I rented out the home week by week by week which allowed every week was worth a mortgage payment into the night went somewhere else. So to this day, my son's pretty much remember that summer as a week at a friend's lake, House. Beach. With grandparents at uncle bills, lovely pool you know to them. It was this great adventure because we kept going different places, Niemeyer, laptop consulting, and then renting out the home. But one time we came back to to our town I was just checking on our home and we stayed in pretty much a dilapidated building nearby. It was so dilapidated that I got a scoop of ice step in the refrigerator, and there is where I placed. The milk refrigerator didn't work The washer didn't work and I was upstairs hanging the clothes on a line because the drier didn't work and that's when Cindy Lou. Otherwise known as my daughter turned to me and she said, this isn't vacation. Is it mom? Now I will never forget those words. This isn't vacation isn't mom and at that moment, I was roughly seven hundred thousand dollars in personal debt Mary long been over but I hadn't even had a nickel to do anything legally about that. And it was time to face by. To me face myself, my mirror, my bank account my children and regroup and the words. This isn't vacation isn't began. In, I'm for many organizational you. Everyone has. A spot of being low you know everyone has a spot of hitting maybe their rock bottom in their journey because does become a defining moment. If you let it if you choose to make it a defining moment for you in that in that low, where did you find your your source of light to kind of push through and where did you find that inner strength? Kind of okay. You know what something's gotTa change and then what was that? Well I do have an incredibly strong faith, and so I turned to my faith in that was there that was my beginning middle and end. And I have three incredible children. They are inspired me not because we really really wonderful people and so I just had to put one foot in front of the other what I ended up doing was. Literally, waking up every morning at five am. To cry and I cried my eyes out till seven and I might have to play certain songs just to get that going. But oftentimes, I, didn't and what I realized was if I could get that out of my system, I could meet them every morning at seven am with a bright smile with gratitude that we needed to face the day and just start rolling, and then when I was able to do is I actually worked three full time jobs simultaneously for almost three years as we climbed out of that problem and. I love speakerphone Mu I love time deal that I can send out for 'em and you don't see it till eight I learned a lot of tricks that allowed me to work. Literally Twenty, four hours a day. But some of those were over that That's incredible. That's a really incredible journey and I think it's really inspiring to for you know a lot of leaders. Especially, you know during economic downfalls during own personal struggles where you just hit that rock bottom and I think that becomes one of the hardest places for for anybody is to find a way find strength really in their in their darkest hour and so you know as kind of talk more about The. The soft skills it sounds like in listening to your story that even when you had not or had none, you were embracing these principles so that when you have some or have more those principles kinda come with you and be your guiding light talk about how important it was for you. That like you said, even at five in the morning seven in the morning you know you had to cry is out but you were not giving up your values in the skills that you believed in. What? I say my tax talk and it's so true is that people use to say to me all the time and sometimes still do really tiny say I don't know how you do all that. You just I was I was single a single sole provider and sole caretaker of three kids and digging through this mound of debt and they would say how you do all that you do and do it with a smile. May only answer was because I can't do it with a frown. And that's all I knew. Was that I my situation was gonNA be the same. Whether I, cried at it or smiled at it, and so I literally just had to smile at I did the crying in the morning only so that I could smile for the other twenty hours of the day and it worked because people want to be near people who are cheerful people want to be near people who are doing something that is proactive. People want was always hard balance between be honest because people would say, hi, you doing today and I had to learn a little phrase which was. Better for seeing you. Now, as my answer all the time because I didn't want to say I'm fine because then I might miss out on so much Zang. Well, I, could drive your son to soccer hundred help. So I wanted to be a True but I also want to be in the dumps because that there's no repellent like just being in the jobs. So I really thought about what's my answer going to be much as how're you doing because you don't know if that person is trying to cast you by saying hello or they're actually asking how are you doing and I found that if I said how you doing, I said bat better for seeing you. If you cared enough to really connect you would, and if you were just passing by it was fine. So anyway, that opened up a lot of Carpool opportunities joint dinner opportunities in all of those Partnership Fund things that single MOMS zero parents currency. Let's talk about for an organizational leader who may be finding themselves. Getting ready to you know wanting to kind of whether they're in their lowest lowly valley right now or they're just looking to reshape you know their personality not personality maybe reshape you know the some principles at their wrestling through or they're just looking to know, hey, look, there's a weakness here of I need to develop myself and I need to look for you know areas. That's GONNA. Make me a better individual. You know where should they start where if we in regards to soft skills and focusing the where do people begin their journey? Well really can be anywhere. I do think authenticity is important, but it is not necessarily project my whole world out in the world I think the number will place to start is listening. That's often our weakest spot An. It's such an easy place to show see improvement in an of yourself. And so. To me, it went on talking to organizational leader. It's What are you learning today? What are you learning from your team? How was your team feeling? What have? What surprised you today trying to ask those questions that help them to ask better questions in there. So many in the book talk about listening better listening longer those are two different things but listening. Better more has to do with not making assumptions about what you think. You're hearing oftentimes, it has to do with asking better open ended questions and listening longer is often about building in margin into your life. So you're not rushing off to the next thing so you can actually hear what's going on around you, but it also might mean having a pause. SORTA AWKWARD ISH SILENCE So where can people find find you find your book where do you want people to go to get all the information? IF THEY WANNA, learn more. Well one of the things I want is I want to hear from people and I especially want to hear from anyone who's listening to you and is a fan because I. have a special gift for any of them though happened to buy the book. In pre-sale especially. So the book is available what NBA Taught Me and the tagline is, but my kids made me learn. My name is. A in the last name is w. r. a. y. so you can find the book on many online. Platform Certainly Amazon Barnes and noble or the easiest you type in my name or type in the title of the book and it's available right now, you won't get it for a couple of months. But if you go ahead and pre-order it, I would love to hear from you and I can hear from you. On twitter on instagram on Facebook, you can come to my website, which is first and last name B. e. a. w. r., A. Y. dot com, and anyway that you let me know, hey, I heard you on the podcast and then got the book I'll send you special. Again, I'll ask you for your actual mailing address that's a little old fashioned, but I'm very traditional and you'll get special. Again Be Ray Entrepreneur Speaker and author of what an MBA taught me that my kids made me learn just WanNa. Thank you so much for honoring us with your time here on the Roi podcast. This has been another episode of the Roi podcast presented by the Indian. University Kelley School of Business I'm your host Matt Martel Beer on the show our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions we'll see next week.
What is a B-Corp and why does it matter? | Ep. 103
"Pain ability in many companies can't just be a word that thrown around for marketing purposes. I'm seeing most of our clients want to get torn as a position where sustainability ability and also going into their employees becoming a mantra welcome to another episode of the r._o._i. Podcast presented by the indian university kelley school of business. I'm your host matt. Martel alongside associate dean philip powell all here on the show. Our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions and if this is your first time listening. We just want to welcome you to the kelly family. We just know your time is so valuable and were just really honored that you decided to invest some of that time here with us <hes> and just want to make sure that hi everything you need is right here for you. So if you have a tough leadership decision you're wrestling with a great guests for our show or you just have an idea and how we can better better serve. You shoot us an email to r._o._i. Pod that's r._o._i. P. o. d. at i._u. Dot e._d._u. Today's episode we are sitting down with will waldenburg who is the founder and president of a company called integrion a management consulting in staff augmentation firm based in philadelphia. He's also an the kelley school of business mba grad and taught by phil during his time here at kelly and a u._s. Army veteran and will we just wanna walk me to show and thank you so so much for your service. Thanks for having me about so. I want to start with the conversation about sustainability we hear about a lot of companies and organizations becoming quote unquote sustainable so let's talk in define what sustainable means to you and what your company is doing to meet that definition ability woody in many companies can't just be a word thrown around for marketing purposes. I'm seeing most clients want to get toward is a position where sustainability is also going into their employees and becoming a mantra <hes> for their employees and it's not just having different recycling bins throughout the company also focusing on single oh use plastic that are being utilized vending machines why they're not you end up cutting those out as tax for the employees <hes> to have available to them now. It's also the way in which their employees treat their work. <hes> <hes> are they using the right type of equipment battle wind up leading to sustainable workforce and sustainable environment firemen <hes> some of the companies that scene that have actually done this that i'm ever all get out of an overall organizational transformation initiative <hes> and when they talk about the values at the company apnea out <hes> you're typically seeing right now that the regeneration want going to be a part of the line soon. You talked about sustainability. We're we're boiling down down simply to an enrichment of life. Is that what i'm kind of centering that on. I think you're seeing that bad. Especially the younger workforce is coming in one one their <hes> their daily work to be a part of their life and not not the sole focus of their life so while you know we use the term sustainable sustainability the interchangeably with the environmental initiative. It's also the ability to work remotely in the ability to take your work on with you answering you know you know <hes> <hes> route the course of the day i'm having one to two days that are possible and that in the building for an employee an environment where they feel as though they can <hes> april long occurred on it thrive so how are you guys working to meet that goal for a lot of your employees and more importantly you know the companies that you're working to consult with ninety. One of our clients have gone knew a <hes> unlimited vacation policy and a lot of companies are going down that path challenge in many ah what ends up happening after so company may ended implementing that policy oriented very happy about it but six to nine months down the road our employees actually taking the amount on occasion that they did for that policy was implemented and the quality of work suffering role as a result of the policy. That's been implemented. No in most cases we're finding the answer who questions is no <hes> the quality of work is still high <hes> employees maybe taking less than they had before him but they have the flexibility <hes> based around around there want their desires but how we track pat and how we bring that to the company's pension is sort of where where sweet spot live well. Take take us deeper into integra so you you were in management consulting <hes> and that's when you were getting. You're also getting your kelly n._b._a. I with our online program talk about as you envisioned integrates talk about that journey of carving out a niche in the consulting area which just pretty competitive and pretty fragmented yes so i certainly made the same mistakes as an entrepreneur. I think just about every young entrepreneur ended up making their first joint joint <hes> the the the business community. You know you think you have a great product that you can end up marketing to just about anybody in the world and then when you end up realize very quickly is that if you don't end up focusing on a niche if he don't end up segmenting yourself into choose focus areas people don't know what you stand for and who you actually are and so it became very clear to myself after starting the company in the first year and needed to scale back from having <hes> global ambitions as a very small company ready and instead focus on being the best small company that i could that i could create and so we ended up <hes> reducing some of our product offering founded three four off offering organizational strategy and initiative implementation and then in organizational change and then instead of saying that we could end up servicing servicing all different sectors we focused specifically on energy and profits so you're an army veteran. <hes> you know you come back from from your service and were you always born to be an entrepreneur. I mean talk about your journey to getting to this place. Our integra is born well. My grandfather was one of the first jewish pilot in the air force. He had actually been enlisted in the navy. They told them <hes> after he had taken his past that he would be going to the second at school in the world which you know a navy person but he was going to west point so they ended up sending them over to west point and this was during the war years after he graduated women the air force for about four years he got out and realized that he wanted so he moved down to central tennessee where he bought a small factory and within tennessee and basically employed about half the town. There's about seven hundred people there were three hundred fifty people out of work that has company for about forty five years <hes> ended making the girl scout uniforms and a lot of other <hes> <hes> fashion that was in retail time that's been in my blood <hes> and it was certainly something that i was thinking about what i <hes>. When i got into the consulting world my father's also an entrepreneur and it's been a financial <hes> adviser for more than twenty years <hes> so it's certainly something pardon pardon me but the decision to actually take that step is just like any other risk that or choice that you end up valuating. What's going to be the long term. <hes> benefit burst open for your family and you know after a while. It just became a calling me and i felt like i want to talk about as an entrepreneur. You have so many decisions that you have to make not only taking the risk but being an entrepreneur. You're having to make decision after decision that ultimately each decision is going to impact impact in the future of your business including you know how you found as a company as we've learned in business <hes> training or business schools rules you have your l._l._c.'s your c- corpse your ass corpse but you guys decided to found as a b court b. as in boy which which is something that's fairly fairly new corporation entity to be able to <hes> found under so we'll talk a little bit about what a b. corp is is and why the you guys decided to go that route will be very similar to other organizations but the primary difference if you look at the technical language is that your articles inc operation <hes> in most companies that will say that you shall act in the best interest of your shareholders in most states <hes> the language language allow those articles inc to change to may and what that means is that you can consider both shareholders and stakeholders you can consider the environment as well as your product you consider supply and demand and also consider the demand communities like serving and that was important for me when i was considering what to do it just to give me an idea and why ended up coming to this place previous company that i worked for three weeks consulting firm. It was a great company. You know they had about twenty five different. <hes> veterans working at a company that was a thirty five thirty people or so and it was a great environment to being especially after getting out of the military but at the end of the day hey when i ended up looking around the firm. I realized that you know for the most part the the groups that we were serving. We're all <hes> prior. Service military and in my world is just a little bit bigger than that and i needed to go out and be able to service both the veteran community but also all the other communities in which i live in over the philadelphia area <hes> <hes> and <hes> starting be allowed me to do that as you have worked this process there are many entrepreneurs out there who have great great idea in the fact that you have mixed your own personal mission <hes> in the sustainable mission <hes> for integrate talk about the journey that that it took in the step-by-step process is where you followed to become a recognized registered corporation well my journey to being being an entrepreneur is kinda funny. There was a project. I was working on my previous company where you know it was just one of those projects where you were working day and night. I think i think over thirty thirty one consecutive days i built something like three hundred and thirty hours you know which averages out to be to be more than around twelve hours a day so it was pretty brutal including weekend <hes> and <hes> i remember at the end of it when i ended up submitting the final product and was going through our <hes> some of our testing <hes> i ended up getting a phone call from are onery but hey. I think you did a great job on this. Everything went really well. I've added some extra money in your paycheck and at the end of that i ended up going really hollow from <hes> because i had gotten kudos i had gotten the additional money and then i realized that i wasn't able to actually deliver the vision as my client with intending i have wanted wanted to do in the beginning and so really the only option at that point was to consider what i wanted out of the so. I took him very methodical approach approach to starting my own firm. I spent another year at the firm saved up enough money that i could end up <hes> going without potential contract at a level that i thought was appropriate compensation station for more than a year <hes> my wife and i were both in barry ready for what that change is going to be. We had a little one along the way though was making sure that are going to be ready for such a disruptive change in our world and then by that. I am number core products. We're gonna end up. Being you know the challenge once we ended up starting starting with making sure that we were we were getting in front of the right audience and the right decision makers advocating a tricky legal environment. Can you get into some of the elements elements and specifics with where where to even start you know so as an entrepreneur who's looking. He's got this amazing vision. Got this awesome idea yet. They don't i know where to start as far as making that a legally protected brand legally protected <hes> organization <hes> to be able to start doing some of their business so walk walk us through some of your journey what you've learned in ultimately forming a b. corp sure it look i i think kelly helped me immensely and by the time i was i was ready to start irony new of the different incorporating entities and i had already registered three different companies in pennsylvania when i was just trying it's the whether or not something with with end up sticking so even though integrated by mike fourth company it was the only one that i devoted full-time efforts to <hes> trough entrepreneurs that are looking to get into into the market themselves the and you better space is an incredible and very welcoming for the veterans face. There's bunker labs and you can end up. I'm going to win in the community but i would definitely recommend that anyone that anyone. That's looking to get into space research. What different <hes> incubators are in their area yeah because that'll help you learn about the what is a pretty complex. State-by-state legal requirement ended up filing and deciding whether or not you want to be a c. corp escort or an l._l._c. as you're growing this business. You did the right thing you you start to think about your niche. You made the decision to be a b corp but flipping that you know people investors or even business coaches sort of scratching their head at the b. corp and you're busy biggest. Skeptics are very it say well. Why do you need this. You're diluting the concept of what it means to be a business right. If you're a true business. The profit motive also is consistent the creation of of social good you know skeptic would ask why in your construction of the of the of your company would you first of all tie your hands in terms of the multiple stakeholders at you now need to serve instead of just the stockholders and also why would you set yourself up to send a negative signal to the investment environment since they at minimum. They don't understand what very few investors understand what would be corp is well. I i think that anyone that's that is a naysayer about the corp especially on the on the stakeholders shirl their side that they don't necessarily understand that every single organization needs to be looking at their stakeholders because in many cases they'll be either the future product owners purchasers or they'll be there feature referral sources and positive relationships with them. It's really critical. Having an hannibal business i think on the aspect of tying her hands there's a very vibrant de corp community state by state and that's also under the b. corporation umbrella <hes> <hes> in the certifying body but i've also found that there are many investors that are looking towards social good as a key platform before they end up <hes> providing <hes> <hes> providing investment capital. We're actually working with a company here. In the philadelphia area called mcrae ends up <hes> producing apps for nonprofits and you know when you first look at that sort of think well. There's company can be limited in terms of their profit margin the answer's no absolutely not. It's an unlimited you know for for them. The untapped market that they have unlimited potential and and the b. corp is the differentiation <hes> for <hes> for them than to other companies so i see that it also the positive marketing play that companies can use to show their their stakeholders the reason why they shouldn't have their goods so we'll beyond just sort of market signaling that you have a different type of value system in your company what are other competitive advantages of a b. corp status over your traditional traditional business yeah so i think one of the primary <hes> britain's ended up becoming a big corporate that you have this international community that's being built of other corpses that are looking to band together and create a sustainable economy <hes> and that just like any other <hes> social organization of companies whether it's chamber of ecommerce or your veteran's business groups <hes> ended up finding these companies together based on this this shared declaration of interdependence that we've all agreed to do that. We want to be the change that we seek in the world and quite frankly you just don't see that in many cases with other <hes> z os or some other small businesses that we've had the chance to work with me. That's differentiator the fact that we all want to work together <hes> and building this community community of course that we can create for social good. I do think there's off with potential for some <hes> legislation to end up happening. I know in previous previous <hes> in previous sessions of congress there had been some <hes> my dissertation introducing the federal side and we would look forward to something like that happening too so abyss goes from being just in the been taking place in thirty states and around the world actually happening throughout the country at info i've even say i've had individuals reach outs through roar website specifically because they weren't that we were be court and these are this is young talent graduating seniors with strong e._p._a.'s the people that i would love to work with that have all reached out to a company like mine simply because we are already. It'd be corporate working in the space. How does a b. corp orb protect itself from making profit the focus because you know a lot of organizations can be corporate care about you know the the being sustainable we make all these promises yet if you really pull back all the curtains the under underlying arching as we are still going to be profit focused to talk about some how does it guard you know organizations from allowing their vision to be skewed in the wrong way with different states have different filing requirements so they can actually take a look at your at your financial to determine if you are meeting the intent that you had behind the company in my case we're over in pennsylvania and we do have an additional violent requirement. I'm an advocate for <hes> for the state but i think the bigger way of keeping <hes> these records general accountable is through the community so for those that ended up being certified as the corpse then we have the opportunity to actually <hes> hold one another's position and make sure that when we say that we are going to live up to commit and we're going to do it so one example is <hes> my company has decided that we were going to end up changing financial institutions the reason behind that is we're going away from one that is complete or profit and toward one that and that's the goal that we determined at the beginning of the year every every month to get a reminder from the community to say. Where are you in the goal because you know you have to do this by the end of the year and if you don't we're gonna make sure that you're punished for it in my case i am <hes> i'm i make sure that the community is holding both myself and other companies are responsible for the commitment that we're making so we'll as we looked into the future of business it's ever changing. Sustainability is becoming a big buzzword. It's no longer people's identities like you said. Earlier are revolving revolving around their career. Their career is just a subset of who who they are as an individual and i really think a lot of people are trying to instead out of finding what's going to give me the biggest paycheck at the end of the day. They're trying to align themselves with an organization that what's gonna line my value system with an organizational value system system so as you look into the future with be corpse how is dot gonna play into the future <hes> for for organizations in our economy look. I started this company because i wanted to do something more than just focus on profit. I wanted to find the purpose was going to drive my life's work and my whole goal when i was starting to to form integrate with the make sure that we were always going to end up balancing the profits that we make with the purpose for today community but we ended up serving. I'm not the only one and i think that's part of what makes the big corporate community special that all the organizations that are part of it have taken this pledge to ensure that we're not just focused on the profit but we're also focusing on apple and the purpose of the company to create this broader structural oil change that were looking for in the business community will just want to thank you so much for being our guest here on the r._o._i. Podcasts again will oldenburg president and founder of and to grit grit a management consultant and staff augmentation firm in philadelphia and also a u._s. army veteran again. Thank you for your service. Thank you for your time and we just wish you the best. This has been another episode of the r._o._i. Podcast presented by the indian university kelley school of business. I'm your host matt. Martel alongside associate dean gene phil powell here on our show. Our mission is to help. Organizations make better business decisions. We'll see you next week <music> <music>.
How can we adapt to the "working remotely" trend? | Ep. 87
"They. Forbes dot com released an article in December of twenty eighteen that states, quote remote work is no longer a privilege, it's becoming the standard operating mode for at least fifty percent of the US population. End quote, a staggering trend that's continuing to grow with organizations adapting to or fighting against this movement. The question is how do we address it on this episode? We're sitting down with the founder of VM s bio marketing, Neil Rothermel, who shares how his company makes working remotely successful. Let's get to the podcast. Welcome to another episode of the ROI podcast presented by the Indian university Kelley school of business. I'm your host Matt Martel alongside associate dean Phil Powell here on the show. Our mission is to help organizations make better business decisions. If this is your first time joining us, welcome to the Kelly family, if you enjoy the show be sure to hit that subscribe button. So you can receive the latest episode as it's released each week. It would also mean the world to us if you left us a review on itunes or your favorite podcasting app. That simply helps our show grow in for everyone. That shared our show on social media. We want to say a huge thinks it's so hard to believe how far we've come just in the past six months. Well, according to the same article, I reference in the intro of this show by Forbes dot com by twenty twenty gen Z will make up about thirty six percent of the global workforce. And that number comes from the center of generational Connectix. What does this mean? It means as technology continues to shrink the globe. How we communicate with each other also evolves meaning working remotely as far easier today than ever before. And that's becoming a drumbeat inside this generation. Wow. Fifty percent of the US workforce has some option to work remotely that's important to understand that. If you get into the article that fifty percent means some option most workers still have to come into work at sometime if we're only looking at one hundred percent remotely we're only talking about five point two percent of the workforce or eight million Americans. However, the trend even there of one hundred percent remote is growing. It's growing fast and enterprises need to adapt. And that's our topic. We want to explore this week. What do we do with this working remotely Trent our guest, Neil, rather? Mel is the founder of a company called V S bio marketing, which is a healthcare. Education company who had to overcome this very obstacle in order to take his business to the next level. Neal is also the executive in residence for our Tobias leadership center, which means he helps our faculty and students build relationships with executive leaders outside of the school walls. Neil points out that we live in a time where change is now exponential. There's going to be more exponential change in the next five years than there has the last fifty and that's probably modest we're gonna see more things change than has ever happened. So as our company has evolved, and we have, you know, hundreds and hundreds of people all around the country. My biggest concern is how do we share our core values? How are we allowed aligned around our mission? And when you don't see people every day to be able to share with that culture. Looks like how do you do that? So I think it all starts and ends with people one of the things I think we did best right out of the gate was focused on working with the best people. And who shared our passion our mission and our purpose. And I think that core alignment for us. Really was the thing that continues to make it easy to have a unifying rallying cry to go to the next level when you work with people who are all focused on the same purpose and grounded in the same reason of why big companies are shifting to unify around their purpose. If they already haven't bringing together their corporate relations in philanthropy, and their mission altogether because the more those things are scattered the hard it is to, you know, make a difference and move the needle it's hard enough in a big organization to get people all move in the right direction. It's like hurting cats, and you add any disparity around purpose. And it's like hurting cats with laser pointers in the interview, he gave great examples of big companies regroup in their focus. You know? One example mad is tesla. Tesla from the beginning was motivated by desire to hasten, the world's transition to sustainable energy. They just happened to pick cars as a way to do that. A group of engineers came together. And they wanted to make electric cars that performed better than gasoline cars, and he knows motivated by this larger question of why the company existed, and that was to bring us into a sustainable future. And now their success there has gone into other areas such as solar shingles on roofs and other things that contribute to sustainability again, tesla accompany focused on why they exist and everything they do is motivated by that. And all this comes from as Neil said Simon cynics, why conversation has or why talk that he gives in Ted talk. And so in order to answer the question, how can our organization adapt to this working remotely trend? It starts by answering. Why are organising nation exists in the first place? I don't think it really matters where people are when they're working. I think it matters. What the purposes of what they're trying to? To accomplish. And sometimes that needs to be together in one space collaborating and sometimes that can be working out in the field. Sometimes that can be at home alone at home collaborating through technology. I think those lines will continue to blur. And it won't really matter where people are anywhere on the globe. Whether they're at home or in a business as long as they're unified around a core purpose, and they have a clear set of objectives. And then they collaborate with the right tools at the right time because there's no replacement for face to face interaction in our business when we sort of start with why our purpose is empowering patients. So if you best do that working from home or you do that in collaborating in a group, depending on your role in the circumstance, I think that unifying principle makes all of that happened. And again, it comes back to re-emphasizing. The question of why the organization exists Neil takes it a step further to help us in our employees, really drill. Down into our organization's purpose. I think the best way for an individual employees to kind of engage in a conversation about the ration now for why they would work from home anywhere how they do their their work in the best environment is to start with why and maybe to start with the why of the business, but then from the design thinking perspective ask five lies, so anything you can ask five wise, go to the deeper value or root cause is a powerful experience. Even in our company are why is to empower patients, but if you double click on that any ask why a couple more times, why are on demand, nurse educators. The best at enabling patient empowerment, and you go deeper into the why there. Well, it's it's empathy. Really what the core of it is is empathy. So if you're on the front lines in engaging patients, and you have the empathy. What's the best environment and way that you can do that doesn't matter whether you're working from home or on a phone or in person? If we give you those skills to maximize on your human capability, of empathy to make that connection that really empower patients. It's a very powerful exercise. I think that same way if you apply asking why five times both to your your your company mission to your job role. Y y y y y y I think you kind of get to the heart of how you could bring that forward to say to someone why this is the best solution and not just selling it for your own benefit. But for the best possible outcome for the company and for the mission. And so I took this exercise that Neil offers to try asking five lies, and I try to apply to our podcast. Well, if we asked the first y that's gets us tour mission to help organizations. Make better business ins the second y so leaders can grow their organization in order to hire Kelly students. Why so our students can make an impact and grow our community the fourth why because we see high value within every person of every community in. Indiana why because we deeply care about the future of each individual's. Well, being inside our community or boil down to we're very empathetic about growing our community to have the best economic impact that they can for their family that leads them for the future success. And so once we drilled down on our organizations why which defines our purpose. Our next step to answering. How to adapt with the working remotely trend is changing how we think as leaders in two different ways. So what are the things that I think is kind of obvious from design thinking and kind of almost improv is this concept of mindset of. Yes. And thinking, so if you're in a critical mindset, if you're thinking, yes, but you're always sort of finding the why something can't work that kind of critical mindset is very important in everyday business sitting so things don't go while the off the rails. But I think what leaders don't do to create a more positive. Live generative culture for the future is to think about time when you could say, yes aunt and even to be cognizant when am I saying, yes? And in this creative brainstorming mentality of creating the possibilities for the future versus of limiting and saying no to things try. Yes. And exercise around that if you say someone's going to be at home. Yes. And what would that a label zoo? Yes. And how would that enable them to not have to spend time commuting? Yes. And how could they be more productive engaged? Yes. And what are the possibilities? When you start to imagine all the benefits of something and build onto them, not from a critical mindset of regulation and management and accountability. But of impossibility, then I think you really unlock the potential of people working from wherever and however the second way to change our thought process is to change our perspective on the future. I think the best way is leaders that we can get ready for that kind of a future is. Is to have a perspective of abundance versus scarcity, and it is the concept of shifting from this idea that resources are scarce to all the possibilities that will be technologically enabled in the future that if we shift from that thinking about limited resources to an abundant future. It really changes the mindset of trying to micromanage and lack of resources to trying to get the right best and brightest minds around solutions. The MS bio marketing has been recognized as one of fortunes top one hundred workplaces, and it has a chief that with more than one hundred full time and eight hundred demand clinical educators nationwide. This success stems from Neil constantly driving down on the organization's purpose embracing innovation and trust in his employees to get the job done. No matter where they are locate. So then the question becomes how do we ensure that the job actually gets done? Well, we must have an engaged staff and the key for having an engaged. Staff is finding the right talent. I think the right people with the right vision don't need to be managed nearly as much if you find people who are unified around your mission, and they understand the purpose. A lot of the reasons to have to micromanage the details sort of go away in very specific ways technology enables a lot of things and even more. So in the future to be able to make sure that as we all continue to be hyper efficient that we make sure we can learn how to be more effective and engaged at every step along the journey in the in the workflow process, and Matt it's not just about finding the right talent. But knowing that the right people, the top talent value autonomy as one of the highest things they wanna be feel mastery and feel good about what they do and feel qualified and have advanced learning opportunities and feel like they're an environment. Growth, and they want the autonomy and flexibility to be able to do it. So I think if you give the right people the right, tools and the right freedom. They're going to come up with better smarter solutions than if you think, you know, the answer and try to go prove it. I mean, there's always something that is a boundary or. An upper limit or constraints on your environment. No matter how you put that together. So I think as much as you just sort of take on the mission and internalized that you know, in areas where people are their creativity stifled they're unhappy. They don't want to be part of that. They're not coming up with the best things, and they're not gonna stay around to work on something that they don't feel good at and that they don't believe in. And we also need to recognize the right people don't have to be held accountable. So if you if you start with finding the right people, and you're not managing for processes to have, you know, people who really probably shouldn't be part of the company just be more compliant with processes you play. You don't have the right people or the right system or they're not engaged in the mission. So, you know, that's not always too easy to do to figure out the root cause it's easier to sort of look for how do we make this person accountable. And I think as things get more and more automated in technology makes our lives easier. We should take our human time and attention. Connect more with people to figure out those root causes of what makes people more effective, and and what brings people down and not be producing results. But then how do we ensure our culture our vision, and our mission keeps are talented employees engaged to advance our cause as leaders we need to learn how to tell great stories. So I think you have to get really good at telling stories, and you have to get really good at sharing signs and symbols that that make a difference in our reminders one thing that came to mind was we had initiative where we're talking about cutting through clutter that we just shouldn't see all the red tape in certain areas. I mean, we work in a highly regulated environment. We have to be very disciplined about about those parameters, but in areas where it's unnecessary bureaucracy. We just wanna cut through clutter, so very simple thing. But our team came up with the idea let's make logo d- scissors that are on everybody's desk. So anybody wherever they work. They have a pair of scissors as a visual reminder. Her there to say, we cut through clutter. So it's just those very simple things sometimes too. I have them on my desk. And every once in a while, you're like, oh, yeah. Let's get that. Let's do it. And they say if if you don't create a story nature hates a vacuum. Someone's going to create a story for you. They will fill in with that constellation of information that's around people create stories. So give them the story. You want to tell give him the story that empowers the future. Don't let people just sort of create their own stories so own it and use it to your benefit. You know, Matt a story grabs the heart. A story speaks to a different part of our mind facts and figures there in the rational part of our brain, and those facts and figures inter-, and they leave very quickly but stories are absorbed by the emotional part of our brain. And it's stuff that enters that part of the brain doesn't leave it sticks with us. And that's what we mean by grabbing the heart and when a manager or a CEO. I can speak to that part of their team's brain this going to have a powerful impact on keeping everyone focused and finally with everything we teach through these podcasts. These tips are simple to here yet hard to apply. Even when I think I'm pretty grounded in these obvious principles. They're very difficult to execute. So for example, he what's this conference recently that was about exponential change and technology, and somehow I got myself wound around the axle that I was gonna come out of this with a solution to bring forward to the team at about three days into it. I realized why is my whole career based on finding the right people and giving them the right tools and letting them figure out what's next, and then all of a sudden at the most technologically advanced time and most precarious time in human history. I think I need to come up with solutions. Spoonfeed them to people is just so wrong thinking, so when you open yourself up and say, I don't really need to figure out a solution. I just need help. Find new tools. For the best and brightest to be able to find the right solutions. It's very free to. So let's recap. There's a rising trend toward working remotely as leaders. We must face this challenge. Now rather than playing defense later. So how do we adapt? I we must drill down on the purpose of our organization right down. Your mission statement, followed by five wise, answering those questions boils down your existence into one simple answer next. We need to change. How we think in two weeks? I instead of always saying, yes, but dot dot dot try saying, yes, and dot dot dot challenge. Yourself to finding a solution where both possibilities can exist. As Neil said. Try a yes an exercise around if someone's going to be at home saying things like yes. And what would that enable them to do? Yes. And how would that enable them to not have to spend time commuting? Yes. And how can they become more productive and engaged? And second recognized that as technology improves, our abundance of resources improves, if we see what's possible through the lens of scarcity. We will not grow to our full potential. The next step comes with finding the right talent who aligned with our organization's mission and making sure we give them the right tools. Neal says that the right people need autonomy and do not need to be micromanaged rather we should spend that time managing our processes instead allowing people to work how they want creates freedom and freedom creates surprising innovation finally to keep our remote workforce marching in the same direction, we need to be the best storytellers stories. Grab our emotions a much stronger force than are logical fun. And if we're not controlling what stories are told someone else will if we allow ourselves freedom to fail embrace a culture of innovation and push past our own insecure. These are organization will overcome any obstacle on the horizon. This has been another episode of the ROI podcast, presented by the Indiana University Kelley school of business. I'm your host Matt Martel alongside associate dean, Phil Powell our mission is to help organizations. Make better business decisions. We'll see next week.