1 Episode results for "Schefter Blake"
46: Eva Schloss: Holocaust forgiveness
"This is Julie. Goals. Jewish state your childhood stolen you and your family hunted for years wherever you flee through Europe, just a child you're forced to learn new languages in foreign lands bullied by teachers and pupils feel foreign accent, your parents and brother don't survive. You end up in a concentration camp witness to extreme violence and murder all around you. But somehow you survive your battered body compromised with years of anxiety. Ahead over whether the cruelty you enjoyed has left you infertile. Would you forgive the perpetrators of these crimes against you and your loved ones Could you stem the hate the need for retribution? Eva. SCHLOSS has she's my guest as we discuss forgiveness. This is Joanie. Gu's Jewish state. The giving is most difficult because the human consciousness has a hard time living in the present. She's ninety one years old stepsister diarist Anne Frank. And on a mission to talk for her family and the millions of others senselessly slaughtered by the Nazis and they European compasses. In latter years, EVA has become a prolific speak on the horrors of the European Holocaust and knows what true forgiveness means. She grew up in Vienna but then when the Germans invaded Australia she was forced to flee to Belgium is an eleven year old and then onto hollow. She lived in the same apartment block in Amsterdam Amazon Frank and the girls only a month apart in age with sometimes playmates from aged eleven to thirteen. But in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, two, both girls went to hiding to avoid the Nazis and in May nineteen forty four Avis family were betrayed by double agent to Dutch underground and transported to Auschwitz. A father and brother didn't survive but she and her mother were freed in one, thousand, nine, hundred, forty, five. Barely. Line. By Soviet troops? It took her body years to fully recover. She didn't have periods either thankfully they returned and she's a mother and grandmother yet she has unburdened herself of. Any. Toward the perpetrators of the crimes committed against her. Family. So if she could forgive what was taken away from her. And how it was taken away from her Shouli weekend. During the days of all between washes, Shana and. We're told check our own behavior and seek the Guinness for wrongs done against God and against other human beings. With. Sincere. Thanks to my good friend, Rabbi Yourself Ogle and his center for Jewish life. For this incredible interview opportunity you'll hear yourself towards the end of the interview with his insights here now is able, Schloss? This S Charlie Goals Jewish. States those who listen for those who are willing to listen. Now. Thank you very much. tweed action. and. I've. Lived a long time and have experienced a lot of wonderful things but Israel. I'm believable Bihar. And of course, it leaves it says sign on my way overlooking. World. Let's just bring it back to today in this country. I think it's fair to say that British Jews experienced a visceral form of antisemitism that they have never done before with the election of Jeremy Corbyn, the leader ship of the Labor Party and the genuine threat that should he have won the election in December twenty nine hundred thank goodness didn't that Future, existence in the united. Kingdom. was under threats. Can I ask you in this for years of quite quite considerable pain for the Jewish community here? Could you feel parallels with what she experienced in Vienna announced the damage as a child not at all not at all and no people's starting to be afraid he upset about it. But as always say Sicily announcing and you know unfortunately antisemitism has always been and always be I don't know why but it is affects. Who is essential his and? It does it's just. It's language. So it's subsequent assist inborn in the people, but it is thus Mention it just same. Like what this I'm doesn't. Nazi. Time. So I must say, it doesn't really bother me and mustard personally offend million may. Not experienced any antisemitism in again thank you for making that clear. Now, you lived in the same apartment block in Amsterdam and frank, and you were only a month apart in Asian. Playmates together in early teenage, and then in nineteen forty two, you both went into hiding to avoid the Nazi effort to capture Jews in Amsterdam. Now, you'll family was captured by the Nazis after being betrayed by double agent in the Dutch underground and transported to Auschwitz. You father and brother didn't survive the ordeal, but you and your mother were barely alive while you afraid by Soviet troops in nineteen, forty five. How Did it feel. To have left your home city of the Anna. To try and create new life understood them. And for that to happen to you, even as you fled from way you used to. Well as it was. At tangible tangible time. Have a very happy little girl in Australia had old plaza who was Like older process should be very protective for me. I have a sort of a viable child. It was much more at a bookworm and he had to be all his stories which he was dating Again. Pants. Kaslow's advice Elliott wonderful family life, and then to go to Belgium. Glad we got out of Australia Benny. Many of our family members didn't because it was spent thirty eight. It was very difficult to get past the German Jews had already gone to England and land, and France and everywhere, and most of those companies did the daily want any more Jews? So only if you're somebody special. got visas any more. But advising referenced in Jim and then Mefatha actually lift in Holland and remain Belgium, and of course, the war stock that my father had asked to get as well to Holland because in a war board as will be closed and view may not be able to see. So in in forties ewing's a wall that in February nineteen forty because visas to for three months to visit by Fassa in in Holland. So relief like you say on the same Dressy not an apartment block, it was a hold area of. More than it'll buildings and there was eleven years old. But of course, you know ahead on trust French said ahead to Dutch Andam. difficult to accept that Baz also children and even by the teaches and. So lost all my confidence. became shy Biz stone but friendly and eventually settled down. But of course, the Nazis invaded. And, of course, a measures Jewish people started to come. And for two years VI IN FIA to be arrested. And in nineteen forty two, then southbound young people go to call up notice have to come to a place respect pex given exactly start Schefter Blake to deported to Germany to work in German factories. But Zach to him benighted forty-two most of German Jews had been deported to get us or two camps. So why on Earth should your one more young Jewish be to Cup to Germany? So Zet sit time when Anna's Fazah auto frank and my father and many other Jewish feminists is cited civil send Sam young people, but we would go into hiding. While I was just sit at ten years old. And my father called us together. And he said, hence, you not going to set you we going to hiding. But we couldn't find a family who was to take it for people. So we have split up. I go visit my Mazda enhance feel bismuth files. And that started to cry. And did not want to be separated the game. And my father said. Behest to do that because. It's safe. To be separated because child's to of Ashfield survive is bigger. Survive. So we sat in years that was the first time as success that. It is a meltdown of life and death. And said played the scary. But split up and we went to different races. But nevertheless, in May nineteen, forty four, we've been plagued and mass looked very Dutch and open hiding and may I couldn't occupy myself because of more sport is at intellectual. And Am Missed Plaza Fossa. and. So. My decided in my house of spoke on the telephone said, we would visit them from time to time shows at something to look forward to. So we visited by fast and Biza who had just been gone to a new plaid in place and follow does so in new beverly various well. So all four of that save time and. Actually. We've had taken to trust to be integrated into vegetable with holding camp. And if you would have stayed said forty four so if you would have stayed. Everybody would have survived of course, but you know the Nazis did just. Round Up Jews sales fell five hundred Gypsies have been rounded up at the same time. And Binge itself But. Vegetables was. Actually banned Jewish people we supervision of Nazis. And so said Jewish. Direct. Does shift from his camp of told on Wednesday at one the list Friday who is good to go town sport. Can you imagine men had to pick out of people who he was going to send to his? But. Unfortunately deadly of costs. Saville's hundred dipsy and self costo spend one when she picked to trust and the field opposite transport which new Giulia Arrivals Zach us one of us as well. So we've had short. Tam Invest a book and Send Dove Eddie on Tam spot. Knowing of costs in never told you where you're going. and. Could have been labor. CAMP PEOPLE BACK GAME It could have been. It could've been Auschwitz could have been anywhere. It was out straits. I mentioned this because even though it was the most notorious camp of all death camps. At least said West selection in. Brick. So no selection the whole town spot without even being looked at been straight. So tunnels beneath flower baskets straight into those. guests Chambas. So mean only afterward idealized actually to have got to Auschwitz. I I didn't think I'd ever hear. Those words in consecutive sentence. In my life but he living today. Because of that fortune. Hearing you talk in such frank terms about your family. And being such a young girl. Losing confidence being forced to learn new languages not being accepted by your teacher. And being. You know the kind of the soul to the of a of a pluralistic society. Just as Jews on today. In freedom in London and in Paris and Los Angeles New York. In Cape Town. You appointing nineteen, twenty, nine was the. Anti Semitic feeling swirling around you even from your birth did you experience in Vienna as a child as well? I'm of course, antisemitism, but because of the Mayo a decimated but nevertheless. Australians actually. Finish sophisticated that people in Zambia allies. So Begum because were also was the biggest impact in Europe and to Kaiser was felt very, very clever and take advantage of juice from his big empire to come to Vienna knowing tests at poets at musician and scientists, and so we not was for of Came of the intellectual world. and. So a lot of people appreciate. It said it was beautiful. See the wonderful exhibitions to escape from all the world to see. So. So vast of course, some antisemitism but. Generally setback sex that and and Emma stay ahead. Not Experienced never any APP discipline Dick were anything but immediately as soon as Hitler matched in. The population changed from one minute to the next I'm believable the student cities, flags and Halley Hitler salute and a nearly welcome. La. And them just to. says. Mabaso was twelve years old. After a couple of days he came home from school all his clothes veteran faceless completely in blobs and Ben Map Pants in shock asking what? Has Happened to you is said my own friends it said instead teach us just watched it. Let happening. And Ivan after school best twin was a Catholic girl an always of us on the way home bestow Dolf said I never went to play a after. Nazis entered. The next day. event. Baked. Dot expected at is had changed and Masa opens the door and screamed that may be never want to see you hit again into slam door in my face. Have US in shock I couldn't understand my grandma tells a story in Vienna in the late thirties about a housemaid that was part of that family. Suddenly turned around to her father and said I refuse to work for Jews. Anymore. And he said get out get out of the House and this was a woman who had been part of the family. For very many years and so you think about Clinton bitcoin shine you think of Freud. And then you think of Vietnamese sophistication and then you say turning on a Sixpence, they welcomed the Germans in with all that fate. How Can this? Happen. In a so-called sophisticated environment in when I hear this and I've heard it before I just can't compute it. You know you with that. How could this possibly happen? Yeah Up. For one day to the next to change completely at digilent-. So I have been to end Francs E, which is probably the best way of describing it a tiny. Tiny apartments not the word in the eaves of the roof of a house in Amsterdam stuck there floor. Of cost two years. We. Went to save day because ambition older sister got too cold up nor dislike plaza. So we both had to. Manuals of people. had to disappear Omar said the children. But unfortunately, not everybody had. It and had found a hiding place. So many many many parents did said such children hoping the headset really record to welcome. Germany. But of course, it never meant the toll to Germany seven to Australia to mount. Townsend. Between said if capability for four in for. Forty. Two and resemble stoned works ends Aventis thrown dog from the cliffs. Ends adapt chef a big monumental? For those fast young tips will remember better Nazis. Ever. You a prolific worker on the half of narrating very, very important history. But you didn't talk about your experiences in the concentration camp until your father's death nine, thousand, nine, hundred having experienced your stepfather's emotional involvement with an to the preservation of a memory you felt compelled to take on the responsibility. Was it part of the mourning process? The you felt that the bathroom should be handed to you. While you know he married my mother in nineteen forty see. and. Eddie. matted it was a married at. German emigrant who had EXCAPE. To Palestine it's time and he came to England to learn. Economics and lifting a boardinghouse. Coming back from from deliberation but it has sheds it must tell us a bit. At home auto came home aboard liberated boasted to save travel I taught because you couldn't go to the west yet. So we had to carry state in the East and dementia in June mendon forty-five Beck in Amsterdam. And waiting for auto for his two girls in new, Zealand is at his wife had died and Mama said me from Pasa at Fossa. End We had no idea what attempted to every news in Auschwitz but now. and. Revenge be put after of eventers station everyday people came from Germany from powered and from Ohio becks to Holland. And eventually in July, we got the letter forms had cost. Very. Informal we have to tell you to Mazda said your husband than some packaged in mouth towels. Several days. Before American army came to a set kemp said was like a death sentence for me. I had really hoped all time. We would be feminine again and eventually that feedback how it used to be. been vanity alleged never ever happen and became more depressed sentences account. Because in the campaign to use all mustangs to stay alive. Because assault get bank eventually to the same knife at before but bonetti alleged can never ever happen. I've wanted to commit suicide. Found Dave ran not, Of Massa, dad she headed. Date first of January nineteen, forty six. Man. Said Life Without. End My father is completely useless and I don't really want to carry on living. So in the camp at never ever saw the giving up but then after watts of us. A miserable because he alleged, how can that exit spit out my family in a stage county because we had lived alien freedom only a few months in Holland. Than Already occupied. Hiding so Holland, on for me a stage continuity. and. Felt completely lost. Ends AD for of hatred, of course. Event later on holiday to Switzerland. Because auto at. Fantasies. And a her German which was my mastung have felt like ice. Could Stand Evans language. So it was. Really extremely hard to try to make another life again. Yes. You know when I talk to my grandma who lost both her mother and father in the concentration camp of channel? No. According to the Red Cross. She talked to me in very graphic terms about having to say goodbye to them at Vienna station at a train station. Heading, for Prague, and that she had what can be best described as another breakdown. When she came to England without any money at all, but just a sister. Who Live nearby and they were housemates. They were around city is old and then. Something deep inside them. Made them want to live reconstitute their lives. Find Mary. And that's that's that's what they did. They settled down they lived in in one room in Sutton Coldfield. On the outskirts of Birmingham and they started to rebuild their lives and when I think about the progress they cheap in Birmingham by nineteen, fifty five, they had their own shopping business they had their own with mortgage. My grandpa on the poos because he was a football expert, he wants something like four hundred pounds because a lot of money and he bought a fridge in a television and all these kind of beautiful things. They had two children, my mother and my uncle. and. They got their together from nervous breakdown to my grandma was joyous. It's a very strange thing. She you know obviously me as a grandchild is younger is a very big big focus of joy and you know I want to talk to you about your the depths of despair that you had and that you like my grandma reached for. Forgiveness that has enabled you to rebuild your mentality, rebuild your life and produce such a purposeful life in your ninety. Just give us a an idea of how you can go from the depths of despair to forgiveness and then this purpose. While took me a long long time but of course, as nine, hundred, fifty, in nine, hundred, fifty, six, they had the best of our Fast Delta to. And that was for me actually a big change of attitude set a miracle because you know. Have to tell you in said liquid we got in the cab in bowl matter does it down a peg pressed? Didn't have our monthly yet. And Venit Cape to having cheated nothing worked. and. So I've established I wanted family because it's out send you know half a continuation of life. and. So eventually event to hospital treatment and. was pregnant. And then we have two more daughters say daughters and. Got Busy And but a mask say. Still for of hey pets. But that wasn't like said several people who said it wouldn't Banjo MCI or civil at gentleman. and. And that start to do. Long for Asta Homeland Massa would never set foot says it's a school out. I'm not going to go back set. But long trousers mountains lakes are so had been and event as a feminine to visit at conflict as to you know we had no family nobody would be new. and. So slowly slowly, but that didn't speak not to my family not to anybody else about Max, -perience At just so At couldn't you. Did the. Happy Girls I should tell them of Otto Frank Glenn Faster and he talked continuously about Amit. And but he didn't explain no I was. So it was always been state vis again, pans of us all this picture of Anna and things about Amnon, books about Amit and who assists on it. You know so it must have been spooky for children. And even now as still got sort of complex about this. But you know you don't know tell you tells them that the little girl died in it's it's very difficult to make decisions like said. So and As I say I never spoke to anybody about who I was and what happened to me. And in nineteen, eighty six. So after a long time over forty years. On the Frank, exhibition which was kit in Amsterdam came to London. And cost of US invited it was Ken Livingston People Seized on this admitted he organized this. All Over said, no, he's not tables they a port that support different. And Debate on the Front People in Amsterdam active and. So. And they had the head table with. Other people speaking and he said compensate viz assets ahead table which I did not ran out and had to end up to everybody at Spokane. said that not even want to say something to you. I was wanting to hide under the table and never spoken about Max peons and uncowed the on the people. you know I didn't know what to say so it got up and. Look at look nervous desperate but said Gates Open didn't stop. And settlers for me a big big change of attitude of everything. Zen. His exhibition traveled own over England and was always asked to open it that say some saying. I wasn't the public speaker and we're still very shy. So Maha spendable speech resent it very badly and but eventually found. Voice so citrus might change and Zen amid at Santa Frank Organizations over here cutting to teach about Suharto cost than. Still Exist. and. There was a from Germany if you were still your head to go into army but you could go at work at the charity and Zobeir some young people from Germany who came to work in London and to funk center. And met one young men. And a very nice eighteen year old boy antiques so mad to to I'm any started to cry. And said, what's the matter? Is You he said can you ever forgive me Why? What have you done? He said, well, I'm chairman. INDESIT, right you are not guilty as nothing to do you. And a set, but but it was my grandfather was announced. Yes it yet. But you your own nothing to do with you. Don't take your mind what you're doing Richard. said. Was My first. Account of his German and then spoke in German school in Each meant to big German school and gave a talk and set and headlands Richard Children Fourteen year old children and that set next to a young boy and ask him do you mix with English people hit Israel No. Not really our patents knows of patents also children, and so we big really Moi German circle od time remix signage people is when we play in the NOSSA school football against them. And, then he stopped it to cry. you're crying. He said. Still Colby's Nazi for Deniro boy. Any said I have done anything out at one am DINACCI never was a Nazi why you're no and you must so upset and a game said doing you perfectly right you don't have to be bad as you're innocent different than anything. So. Stopped the allies also sings that the. Is Stop to accept. But this happened was a spoke once in. Which is again, a center of Germany with a lot of culture. Goto Sheila all. Of US Have Castle and spoken this castle. and. The next day ago in a letter in Modesto tell our staying from a German woman and she vote she was Fisher daughter listening to my talk. And Send Venza Goto of still up and talk about this disadva-. Didn't really know much about all this. and. Send Metadata. Asked me what did paddle? Can further but did he do Windsor? War? and. I said he and Nazi. Killed many many people a faithful Devesh ESOL had killed. Many many has shannon civilians and soldiers. and. Many came back to be a teacher he could teach anymore he. Occupied himself only with philosophy and religion at didn't really ever Fayza in never talk to me it never smile that may never took note this of me you must complete person and at topless my daughter about all this and she was furious but I hope eventually should be lockstep while what happened. And She sank may because she hadn't talked to prospect about whose father was Norberto had sheldon so sank me said it is now open and she can breathe again she said it was burden for her whole life. and. I think about his the longtime and then send a letter to her and I said at don't sing your father was a bank man but cicis what's happened in Warsaw your stab to do things that you would never ever dream of you could do enough because she sank correspondent for sometime and Zach Zach Thomas actually defer stems at Diana's while evil if did tangible sings. It wasn't behalf set own initiative it was. So said times have forced to do things and it was certainly not all bad people and then at least that it was a first time to accept in a way what suggestions have done and it was really for me end. Yeah at changed our at the Joe to. To initiate what is happening now world as well. Thank you ever. Very profound words which I will listen to. But let me ask you this specific question My last interview was with the Hungarian Ambassador to the UK. His name is sentence Kumon he is a cultured knowledgeable man with a great deal of. Mench skied I think is the word. Knowledge of the Jewish community in Hungary the Jewish community in New York many of them of course, are of Hungarian descent on thinking of Satmar undercoat's Hubbard Romanian as well. And he knew a lot from his time as consul general in dealing with the religious Jews of of New York, and he certainly helped in organizing the return of long abandoned graveyards in Hungary. Full the Williamsburg Satmar people to go on pilgrims again to go and visit their old rebuffed him. I. Only did the interview because he referred to the Hungarian Holocaust that he took responsibility. That Hungarian officials and the government's. Involved in the murder of four hundred thirty four thousand Hungarians. Between May and July nineteen, forty, four just. Nine or ten very very. Appalling weeks towards the end of the second world, war and just on the up came in via asked in May. and. Masan. ME. Out Chosen. To work in Canada I don't know if you've heard sept was a nickname kinda being go pled Dan show on. They're all sing switch but there comes but took her because. They get. We had to leave every safe at address all taken to this place called. And we had to sort out six. Investigated all back to Germany and I saw Joe Sangari and juice cabinet because cannot. Next to attain missiles paperback I have. And Divest Vati few selectors and most of sustained galleon Joe's as shows at man stayed to be guest. Exactly, hockey my life because every worked with weeks in. Canada till the blood-red coming anymore. And we had more food because we found food and it wasn't heavy work and so on. So NFL field sometimes guilty because of those people were killed advance collected said May June a debate, the job. Of. Somebody else would have done it if I, one. Eighty percents of the Hungarian Jews in that Short period of time was sent straight to the deaths. Passos at yet you are an actual I witness to that. My my question is a very, very simple one. How do I. Make Peace with this knowledgeable and Culture Bam, Info because he is a supporter of Israel. Hungary is quite a fervent supporter of Israel with inside the European. Union. They are often outlaw is against the other twenty seven nations. I. Hear it regularly or Bannon Netanyahu. On very good terms, there's a lot of cooperation and yet I think about my great grandparents. And Mit desecrating them memory by reaching out to make peace you know that that's something that I need your coaching on to understand forgiveness. Well I'm. That's that's his Hispanic feel guilty. At don't think so. What you're saying well. You know I I. Ask Him. You haven't asked him. He wasn't interior such but he showed a deep. Sadness and regret not only at the. Responsibility that he felt he should say on behalf of Hungary, but also that he should. From a moral perspective and because of the past reach out to the Jews. Of the world. And the Israelis and when he said, you have a moral drive. You don't need to think you just do. and these are very very powerful words and obviously they are not universal words as spoken by the entire nation of hungry. But they came from him and I took them on face value. We are in touch now. Ambassador but I'm grateful that we have in Israel. And you know I think Germany as a whole She has helped to build up his house if given an enormous amount of money and decay and a lot of German people into work keyboard said helped. and. Save apologized for. Don. and. Still. Pay Out money. At least you don't have the alleged them Australia on the other hand severe his many in the camps the heads of Commanders Valley Austin in February God's address also in men for answers and evens emerged offset. Disabled. A German cheated on standby be Austrian Nazis. And Save Save victims themselves, which is, of course not. So. You don't enforce Germany obviously have accepted and that can forgive them. All stay unless because it's still sing. San Doing but it was that he might say I'm doing as well which brings us onto the question about older Nazis towards the end of their lives showing absolutely not remorse for what they did the question in the paradigm of your forgiveness. Can you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven? Who doesn't can well talked about this for set by a sink like any agenda, the German people who are solely yes as suddenly forgiveness. Table, law back to Germany and give talks children on all that event intest advantage solely about what happened. And feel guilty from once again, pennants have dumb and. But if said, don't a bit said to have done terrible sings. As things don't must be evil people and in my opinion, they don't deserve our forgiveness. You buy can come at Albertville has say. I just I just want to come back to you know watching this interview obviously of Johnny. We'll down before programming and all questions missing listened to have up up for a long long time. You see what what comes across the screen and every time I speak to you and to your audiences around the world I'm sure he's a very positive of disposition. That's great. Energy good energy coming out of you, and this is from a person who has experienced that the tendency young age in your earning. t some of the most horrific sufferings than that I mean experiencing Auschwitz you'll follow father using your view the Bravo. How does the person manage? To be so positive Abbas, such a good outlook. Notwithstanding those very break difficult experiences. Do you move on having dealt with the Post on you, Stu Hart's in. How how does it look? At love for life. Enjoy life most of it not so much to offer locked have. But Jeddah that'll. Make Little Sinks At Dorchi that you know go up to pack as he'll just little thoughtless it gives happiness Yes. I would say man happy person. So I go to Alwa- But At night sometimes as still sing however mismatch. Mismatch browser however miss from Austria. But. A. Have made peace what has happened I find your generation astounding in city the these are the very emotions, experiences and future orientations of my Momma Oliver Sholom. She was nonstop positive always look to the future. Spent time looking at old TV archive of ever there was a black and white second world will picture I would see her scrunching your is up looking for her Charan's as if that would that Little Sean CB would produce a bit of evidence for her. She just didn't know exactly what happened to her and yet she looked at me, she squeezed my hand. She looked at everything she had created and she kept to her Judaism and our identity please never experienced what you did. But I. The, the your generation. I mean genuinely for me I'm lucky to have known. This generation for so long and thank you. Ever let doctors. Coming finally as I mentioned, we have a few days before Yarmulke poor. John Kapoor in one word a would be forgiveness. We ask God to forgive us and God tells us if you forgive each other if you forgive my children that I will forgive you. There's lots of people who are hurt in in much less significant ways than you have been and yet it's so lodge that lives for them to the garage and half the hate not forgive. What message during this period would you? Convey. Suitable people who will be both have some anger and hate in the Hawk as to how to overcome that and how suit forgive and how to be positive to move. I, hate. Poisons your own life and Zach. Lady Very Young from Otto Frank because as a came to our house naked did for seven, twenty, eight, twenty, nine than ever full of hatred and he who had lost everything. It always escapement said only cigna process is. Closed body lost everything and the lost the whole family and I don't hate. Germans. An Elvis said but how can use it's impossible must be full of hatred and said, no at just can't eight. and. If you hate people who suffer use of people you hate saint knows at you hate Cepsa don't your carry various about one stop. But you are you become miserable? And live in bed said. Yet will you come function but hey, it's a terrible thing and. that. But that coats still not so it off it took me a long long time to. But? Nevertheless, have enjoyed what was out made. A like a love live. and Said, help me to doc period as well and I like auto he said to me don't hate because you will sell for notes. Also people said this rent that can tell now to also people. Eight doesn't help you at toll. It only destroys you. So you'll feel feel much much better if you'll forgive. It for your own sake even not only for the people you forgive, but for your own sake. Eight and jealousy the star she'll know I mentioned I. think to you before that. There is a great anecdote from the third Lubavitcher Rebbe who says how come children sometimes gets into fights and five ten minutes later they make up. with yet adults. They get into, find some that's bringing in this anger and sometimes ten years they still didn't talk to each other. So the question you asked adults, intelligence children less so it should be the other way round. And he gave a very simple insight he says, children would rather be happy. THAN BE, right. Adults would rather be right. And Be Happy And when I look at you and anyone looks at you, as you said before, you chose life. You know over death and all those negative characteristics are really traits of death and destructiveness. As you said, because hate anger up really destroy life and not the life of someone else but more. So your own life at share on life as also told you. So obviously again during this period of Russia where the keyword did not the key, what is to choose life from we ask God to ibis in life life means to live life means to stay to have those positive traits and to try rid ourselves as best as possible from those negative traits joining sub to destroy us. Yes. If people can forgive several feed by chapter bear Inza own knife and mass shootings have onto achieve set. By deserve to be bitter in. Hey. I. Own goat it's a win win situation ethel right now the person who you forgive feels Mule Su. Who wouldn't want a win win? Catch at. Thank you very much. For joining US tonight and sharing with us as always those those stories from the past. Really. But the come alive as you speak them with you know from the hawks words that come from the Hawk end to the Hawks most importantly that that beautiful good energy that energy of life that energy of acitivity I understand in many parts of the states you've spoken a friend of mine told me over five thousand people in the audience of come to you, and now I understand why because people want? To hear. From. Someone like you who? Good energy is as good energy from from from the darkest experiences and the message of forgiveness and evacuation order our audience at this. Time in the year and during these challenging times that we should all at the inscribed in the book of life, and we should be less than overwhelming blessings for good health and genuine happiness, which comes as a result of forgiveness Guinness and much prosperity in our times. Thank you very much to both of you sank your dash to meet you Joni and Shankhill Albert be will meet soon. Again I hope I really hope. So thank you very much. This was a very special our. If you like Jonas regular old casts think about making the designation that's an either patron dot com slash Jonny Gould Click on the Come on the donations page at Jewish state's dot. Co. Coach UK. Kofi loose coffee. COFFEE DOT COM slash Joni Goud. That's K. Dash F I dot Com. Slash Joni Gould.