20 Episode results for "Saudi Embassy"

AP Headline News Oct 18 2018 22:00 (EDT)

AP Radio News

04:00 min | 2 years ago

AP Headline News Oct 18 2018 22:00 (EDT)

"Mark cubes giving a beach close enough. So that space between you and me. The way all dance and sway into the music girl. They embody and how you move. And every time you cross my girl Losey Alexa play the country heat playlist. Okay. With Amazon music of voices. All you need, get tens of millions of songs, download the Amazon music app today. AP radio news. I'm Jacky Quin. UN expert commenting on the presumed death of Saudi journalist, Jamal cash go, gee says the world is witnessing a new and very worrisome practice of governments. Abducting people in foreign countries using undercover operations. There are calls for the UN to investigate the allegation that Costco g was attacked inside the Saudi embassy in Turkey and killed. Allegedly by Saudi agents, the White House is giving the Saudi government more time to conclude an investigation, but President Trump now admits it appears Costco g. is dead. But we'll see what happens. The president is campaigning in Montana for GOP candidates, including Greg and forte, who pleaded guilty to body slamming a reporter last year. This is terrible. He's gonna lose the election. Then I said, well, wait a minute. I know Montana pretty well. I think it might help him and President Trump's thinking Mexico for posting more police at the board, or he has threatened to shut it down unless Mexico blocks a massive caravan of Honduran immigrants, trying to reach the US for asylum. The Justice department is investigating allegations of clergy, sex abuse within the Catholic church. In Pennsylvania. It has served subpoenas on a number of church leaders. If you dread the winter cold, you might be in for a nice surprise. This year. El Nino conditions are expected to bring a milder winter to most of the country. Our Seth Bornstein report everywhere out west is likely to be warmer than normal. The only part that's not as south. East, he says the south east and the mid Atlantic could see more rain than usual. The death toll in Florida has risen to twenty four from hurricane Michael, and at least another ten people died. In other states. Emergency crews say they've been able to extinguish a gas pipeline fire evacuations are lifted. This is AP radio news. A defamation lawsuit against President Trump by a former apprentice contestant to claims. He groped her is being aired in a New York courtroom. Federal appeals judges considering summers, roses lawsuit against Donald Trump, wrestled with this question, could a court send the president to jail if he were to defy a court order. In the case Trump lawyer, Marquette says that question illustrates why the former apprentice contestant case should be put on hold while Trump is president plaintiff's attorney. Marianne Wong says it's just an unlikely scenario. The question wasn't definitively answered in arguments. Zurve is suing for defamation Trump called her Aligarh after she accused him of unwanted kissing and groping she argues, she shouldn't have to wait for her day in court. Warren Levinson New York. If you thought there was something fishy about the price of canned tuna star Kist is admitting guilt in a felony price fixing case brought by the Justice department, a conspiracy with Bumblebee and chicken of the sea. I'm Jacky Quin AP radio news. Choosing an energy company raises many questions you can make by trista natural gas, works smarter. Where can I find a company that's easy to do business with? Who knows the market best has options to fit my needs for millions of homes and businesses. There's one answer constellation decades of market intelligence and proven solutions amid trusted energy, energy, efficient, simple, inciteful, and flexible. That's what makes constellation America's energy choice. Learn more at constellation dot com slash energy.

President Trump Jacky Quin AP president UN Greg Montana Losey Alexa Amazon Justice department Saudi government New York Costco Saudi embassy Mexico Seth Bornstein Pennsylvania GOP
Ep. 237 - The Devil In The Details

The Michael Knowles Show

46:26 min | 2 years ago

Ep. 237 - The Devil In The Details

"A Saudi journalist end former intelligence operative turned dissident, goes missing at the Saudi embassy in Turkey with reports that a Saudi death-squad chopped him up while still alive. And for some reason, I have been assured by the mainstream media. This is all Donald Trump's fault. We will analyze the devil in the details how this is being totally misreported and what the US response should be. Then the metoo movement, boomerang swings back and clobber Democrats on the head. Alexandria Kazuo Cortez like totally a, you know, reveals why millennials don't understand anything. Kleenex says, women are just as disgusting as men. And Thomas Jefferson gets accused of a sex scandal on this day in history. I'm Michael Knowles and this is the Michael Knowles show. So much to get to today. This story about the Saudi journalist intelligence operative, former politico, Islamist, whatever the the story about him being disappeared in probably killed at the Saudi embassy in Turkey is one of the great examples of fake news in the mainstream media and how it's used by politicians. We'll get to all of that in a second. I let's make a little bit of money, Honey. 'cause you know the future's so bright right now the economy's going. So everything is so good the future, so bright, you gotta buy shades and that's why you need blinds dot com. Window treatments is one of those Solis terms for something necessary, but absolutely boring, your blinds and you don't think about them until you move or until they break or they whatever, when they're right, everything in your home looks better when they're wrong, everything in your home looks cheap. Don't cheap out taking the time to pick out blinds and by blinds. It sounds expensive. It sounds far too adult, you know, it's I don't. 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So would blind cellular shades, roller shades and more what is it blinds dot? Com promo code Michael j. l. rules and restrictions apply because they played everything in this life. Okay. Let's get to this. Saudi journalist, dissident type guy, Jamal Khashoggi what do we know? He's a Saudi guy. He worked for the Washington Post. He lives in the United States briefly, but he had worked previously with the Saudi Royal family, and he walks into the Saudi embassy in Turkey. He doesn't walk out. We also know that I think fifteen members of the Saudi government arrived in Turkey that day they, they left pretty quickly and there are claims that he was killed in the Saudi embassy and chopped up well, still alive. Doesn't sound great the way this is being spun by the mainstream media. First of all is that this is somehow Trump's fault. The Trump needs to do something about this Trump needs to get rid of our agreements with Turkey with regard to selling weapons hundred billion dollar arms deals, whatever as Saudi Arabia rather. So this is how it's being spun. He and the guy Jamal Khashoggi he's being spun as a lead. Left wing progressive liberal pro democracy, reformer guy against the Saudi Royal family, which is not willing to reform and is oppressive. The real truth is far more complicated than that. The first question that you have to ask yourself when you hear about this story is why am I supposed to care? Why am I supposed to care that the Saudi government took out this guy that took out this former. He formerly worked with them. I guess Jamal Khashoggi was aligned with other with another faction of the Saudi Royal family than the one that is currently in power under Mohammed bin Salman. So you know a guy whose political fortunes of changed has been killed by the Saudi government. Why am I supposed to care about that? I don't mean to sound callous or cold ordered or anything like that, but we know that the Saudi Royal family commits heinous acts all the time and has for decades and decades. We know that it's one of the most repressive regimes on earth. Why. Why am I supposed to care about this one? They do it all of the time. Mike question for those who would call us callous for asking that question is why don't you care about the the beheadings that are happening all the time, the clamping down on political dissidents. Why don't you care about that? Why is it this one in particular, I, I'm not. I don't really understand what new information is being conveyed by this killing of a dissident guy. Is there anything new if we had our arms deal with Saudi Arabia, two weeks ago, why would we change it now? It's not like the government has changed its stripes. If anything, the government is getting a little less repressive. They're liberalizing certain laws. They're letting women drive for the first time in a very long time. They're opening up certain movie theaters little little freedoms are being opened up even economic freedoms. They're now starting to do a little bit of business with Israel, and that is the biggest issue that's actually where this gets down to, and it shows that Jamal Khashoggi being put up by the left wing as this messianic figure. Or you know this, this progressive secular westerner is of was far from them. So what does this actually proved to me proves to me that if you pal around with jihadists, things aren't going to turn out very well, that's that's the only conclusion I can draw from this because we know that Jamal Kagi palled around with his Llamas for decades. And by the way, now the left now that we're pointing this out that this guy palled around with Islamist radicals even with some bin Laden. Now that people are pointing this out. The left is saying, this is a smear campaign by right wingers trying to defend President Trump's relationship with the Saudis. Vernon Trump didn't develop the US relationship with the Saudi Royal family. We've had it for a very long time, but to call a smear merchants, it's it's not the right wing, which is coming up with these connections between Khashoggi and terrorists in HAMAs terrorists in Asia terrorists like Osama bin Laden of this has been known for decades and actually it's left wing papers to horizon in Israel is reporting on all of this, so don't really buy any of that. What do we know? We know that Yamaoka shaggy was in his Llamas, he's he was a lifelong member of the Muslim Brotherhood. He favored radical aspects of the Muslim Brotherhood. We know that he was a regime insider as well. So not. It's not just as simple as journalist, it's a guy who worked with the Saudi Royal family. For a long time and we know that he was working on their behalf in the nineteen eighties when he was palling around with some bin Laden by all reports when he was hanging out with Osama bin Laden, he was trying to end the feud between the Saudi Royal family and Osama bin Laden, but he was hanging out with him for a long time. There was a photo that was uncovered. I believe by Haaretz, which shows Jamal Khashoggi holding an RPG a rocket-propelled grenade with terrorists in Afghanistan. In the nineteen eighties, we know that Jamal Khashoggi defended supporters of suicide bombings that he vigorously defended HAMAs the brutal terrorist group in the Middle East. We know that that according to Al Arabiya, he tried to get some bin Laden to be a little less violent, but went Osama bin Laden died Jamal. Khashoggi, apparently cried and talked about how he wept when Osama bin Laden died. Now, he after September eleventh, he turned away from Osama bin Laden. He said, that's no good. Okay, fine. But he, he wept when bin Laden died. So again, a Turkey says that it has the audio recording of Jamal Khashoggi being killed by the Saudis. Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. I have very little reason to believe. But in this case, I very little reason to disbelieve Turkey because the Saudis commit heinous crimes all the time. There are now also reports that Saudi Arabia is looking for a replacement for the crown prince Mohammad bin Salman. He's the, he's the new guy in town. He's been hailed in the west as a reformer. He actually has instituted certain reforms pretty major reforms in so much as doing a little bit of business with Israel. You know, obviously the kind of headline grabbing ones letting women drive, but he does seem to have an eye toward the future. It would be very, very bad idea for Saudi Arabia to replace this guy right now. I really think it's a bad idea. The arguments against the crown prince of Saudi Arabia or that he's not in favor of democracy in the kingdom. Great. Why on earth would we be in favor of democracy in Saudi Arabia, how his have our experiments in democracy panned out in other repressive Islam countries? Not very well. Why? Why are we supposed to conclude now that a democratic Saudi Arabia would be any more peaceful for the kingdom for the region and for the United States than a democratic Saudi Arabia. I don't really buy that and you know, some of the so-called pro-democracy agitators in Saudi Arabia have pretty radical Islamist ties even more radical than the Saudi Royal family. Okay. What else? The other thing is be dinged for is that he's developed a pretty good relationship with Donald Trump. Again, this is nothing new. This Saudi Royal family has had a relationship with the US for a long time, but because everyone hates Trump on the left, they're trying to ding him for that as well. I highly recommend you read a piece today co written by Michael Duran, Michael arenas, an excellent foreign policy analyst. It's in the New York Post. I think presents a fair take on who Khashoggi is who Mohammed bin Salman is and what the relationship is between those families. You know, to call him a dissident journalist who fled to America that that presents one picture, but it's not like he fled to America ten or fifteen or twenty years ago. It's not like he fled to America after he was palling around with bin Laden. And he suddenly had an awakening. He fled to America after the political tides turned in Saudi Arabia, and there's a new crown prince in town. Okay. Here are some other things by the way that Jamaica shaggy wrote about the painted. Different victory said, quote, Saudi Arabia now believes its interests lie in facing Islam, assists who were supposed to be. It's a Stoorikhel allies. I often hear Saudi Arabian intellectuals on television attacking political Islam. And my answer to them is that Saudi Arabia is the mother and father of political Islam. So you've got this guy Khashoggi who was killed. Extolling the virtues of Islamism of political Islam. The vicious ideology that we've been fighting now explicitly for fifteen years, and yet the left in America is expecting us to render garments in Nash our teeth because defender of political Islam has been killed by his government. I'm not saying that I'm happy about the killing. I'm not saying I'm devastated about the killing. I'm saying, when you pal around with jihadists and radical Islamists bad things going to happen to you. He he goes on, he's he criticizes the the leftist project of opposing political Islam. And he says that Saudi Arabia has lost its moral compass. It lost its moral compass, not because it's embraced political Islam be, but because it opposes political Islam, this is not something that's being presented in the mainstream media. We also know that Khashoggi supports air John in Turkey, strong pro Islamic leader of Turkey. And he was hoping for an alliance between the Saud's and Turkey. I don't see how this benefits the United States. I don't see how it's in the interest of the United States. Part of the reason why Khashoggi is getting this red carpet treatment, and this killing is being presented is totally unprecedented. Horrifying shocking as if we didn't know that this was this sort of thing was going on for decades ported. The reason is that when he got to the United States, he allied with certain former Obama administration officials. He allied with the political left in the United States from his post at the Washington Post which is had for a little while. And so part of that was hiding his, I think, true political beliefs and his demonstrable political activity for decades, all of all of which I don't want this to be misconstrued. I don't want it to seem as though I'm defending the Saudi Royal family, a killing some dissident. I don't share a religion with Saudi. Royal family. I don't share views of government with the Saudi Royal family. I don't share views of political philosophy with Saudi Royal family. I don't care. I, you know, I have no intention of ever going to Saudi Arabia. What I'm saying is this is nothing new and the people who are opposing the Saudi regime can be pretty awful people to. They may actually even be worse. You know, one of the arguments for defending the Saudi Royal family for maintaining alliance with the Saudi Royal family is that the devil we know is better than the devil. We don't. Throughout our encounters in the Middle East. This is very often proven to be the case. Just take the case of Mubarak in Egypt. Do we really believe that Egypt is better off now that the United States relationship is better off? Now after we hoisted are longtime ally, Hosni Mubarak years ago, do we really believe, how is that better off? How are we better off if pro democracy forces enter some of these oppressive countries in then through democracy through voting institute, even more oppressive, even more too radical, even more anti-western regimes? How is that in our interest? How is that an anybody's interest? If one of Khashoggi's chief criticisms of the Saudi Royal family is that they're too pro Israel and they're not supporting HAMAs enough or something like that. Why on earth should we be defending that? Why should we be horrified? Why should we be clutching or pearls? I don't get it at all. I think the real. It's getting so much plays because there's a midterm election coming up. They got nothing. The Democrats have nothing to attack Trump for. So they're just grasping at straws. They're trying to grasp anything at all that they can use to cuddle him with. But people need to take a real view. We talked yesterday about how when people get angry, they go mad. And when they go mad, they get stupid. They start behaving and really stupid political ways. This is a good example of that. You know, we people don't know anything myself included. People do not know anything relatively about the political machinations of Saudi Arabia Turkey, and Iran people don't know the players involved. They don't know how deep this runs and everybody wants to pretend that they're an expert on this issue and Saudis, bad and Mohammed bin Salman bad and Jamal Khashoggi good. The reality is so much more complex and when we when we just by a shallow narrative of this, we can get ourselves into a lot of trouble both as a matter of foreign policy and for domestic politics don't buy into it is it? Is it bad? When a government kills its people without due process? Yes, governments do it all the time. It's happened for decades. Certainly. It's happened in Saudi Arabia. There is no new information here. Now how can we react to this? The killing was extrajudicial. What can we do? We can hopefully leverage this killing to get some concessions out of Saudi Arabia. You know, there was the famous Saudi Arabian textbook controversy which is emblematic of the education of young Saudis into anti-western anti-american anti-israeli, obviously, ideologies, perhaps we can leverage this situation to gain some concessions from them to turn the stance of the regime, a little less anti-western, turn it a little bit more in the direction that we wanted to go in the interest of the United States. I'm all for that. I'm all for leveraging this. I have no sentimentality, no saccharin love of the Saudi Royal family, but let's be clear. I the people who were opposing the Saudi Royal family or pretty awful themselves. And in many ways they oppose our interests in a far greater way. And fortunately, we have the Saudis there to oppose the influence of Iran in the Middle East. Just keep all those things in mind. And most importantly is your, what are we now eighteen days out or something from the. From the mid term elections, don't don't let the Democrats take this bizarre random incident that happened in Turkey and try to use it for political leverage, coming eighteen days out. It is. It's a cynical political ploy by the left and it could have consequences both politically and for for our foreign policy don't buy it ju- you know, the people, I think who are screaming about the Saudi Royal family, the most that they've ever even googled the guy who was killed. I don't know that you've got a view these things clearly, but we don't have a lot of clear thinking anymore. We'll get to that in a second with with Alexandria. Kazuo Cortez I do want to turn back to the midterms because this me too thing has totally boomeranged back and clobbered Democrats. You know, this is another example of why you shouldn't let your passions run away with you in politics. You should get all of the information I because this me too thing is cluttering them. There is now an ad out supporting the GOP. Richmond French hill. Now he says, he wasn't behind this ad. He's condemned the anti says, it's outrageous, but the whole premise of this metoo movement and specifically the cavenaugh part of it is that all women must be believed regardless of any evidence they have all women. All claims of sexual misconduct should be believed. All men accused of sexual misconduct should be presumed guilty until proven innocent, and this has huge effects on and huge relation to American history. Specifically American racial history. Don't forget the book to kill a Mockingbird is about a false rape allegation of a white woman against a black guy, and she made it up and it was a hoax. And it was a had serious Rachel consequences. So there's this great ad now supporting GOP congressman French. He'll just take a listen. You think about what's happening in Washington, I'll congressman French healed and the reply. No, that this dangerous to change the presumption of innocence to a presumption of guilt, especially for black men. If the Democrats can do that to a white Justice of the supreme court with no evidence, no corroboration and all of our witnesses including her best friend say it didn't happen. What will happen to our husbands out fathers, our sons when a white girl lies on them go. Why Democrats will be lynching black folk. Again, turn out always told my son don't be messing around with that. If you get called, she will cry rape. I'm voting to keep congressman Fench here and the Republicans because we have to protect Amin in volleys. We can't afford to let white Democrats take us back to bad old days of race, verdicts life sentences, and legends wanna white girl screens rate paid for by black Americans for the president's agenda, not authorized by any candidate or candidates committee. That is to real that I think that has been disqualified from the public airwaves for being too real. They I'm sorry, you're not allowed to have political ads that are that real. You're not allowed of political ads that go back one to to really the heart of this matter. But also that refer to Democrats long history of racial violence and demagoguery. So really good ad. Obviously it is outrageous so the congressman has had to distance himself from it, but it makes a great point. You know this, this regime, this political movement of metoo is lawless. It's anti law and it's lawless. It says that any allegation you can destroy man's career with just a few words, no corroboration no evidence in the case of Christine. Ford. Not only did she have no evidence. She kept changing her story and all the people. She names there including her lifelong female friend said it didn't happen. They never met the people. There just didn't happen. And yet. How many people in America still believe Christine. Ford story or one of Christine, Ford stories. I don't know. She kept changing them. How many believe that Brett Cavanaugh is not only groper or was it groper when he was sixteen but wasn't attempted rapist and even almost a murderer because the story, you know, kept changing how many people believe that it's very. Really long lasting effects, and you see all around and there is a racial component to it. Don't just believe the ad for French hill, go back to to kill a Mockingbird. Go back to nineteenth and early twentieth century American history. This is not a, this is not a joke and because all nature is but art unknown to the because everything every time the Democrats try to make a point reality swings back and punches them in the face. This has actually happened the lynching of Emmett till came about because Emmett till allegedly fourteen year old black boy allegedly hit on a white woman and they Lynch mob came and killed him for it for that allegation. And now you've got the left, denying that this would ever happen is not a chance. It would never happen in Brooklyn in New York. A nine year old. Black boy was accused by a white woman of grabbing her a dairy air in a supermarket. The women's clearly unhinged. She ended up calling the police and say, he assaulted me. He grabbed me. He grabbed my dairy air at a nine year old boy, and then they looked at security camera footage never happened. They can. They can prove that it didn't happen. She's a nut. She called the cops on the kid. It's not like she just said, oh, you don't do that. Or they said it was mother, don't do that. She called the police on him and then it turns out it was fake, didn't happen. It was a hoax. So one, I just want to point out for the believable women thing. There are hoaxes Jackie Coakley to wanna Brawley countless sexual assault hoaxes in recent years. The reason that you can't believe all women just because they're women is that it is unfair to actual victims of sexual assault. It actually doesn't take sexual assault seriously when you believe crazy people, and we should take sexual assault seriously because it is a heinous crime. So I love this kid. He the, the woman, the crazy woman who accused him of business name. Teresa Klein the nine year old kid is Jeremiah Harvey, and you know, she's trying to ruin his life at this Brooklyn deli. ABC news interviewed the nine year old kid and said, do you forgive this woman? I love his answer. How woman feel about her own? Forget this woman at all. I think she was crazy. I think she had something going on with her. I think she had a special ill will end. She needs help. She really needs help for. No, you tell them, you tell him Jeremiah now, you know, I think he should forgive in time, but this is a perfectly appropriate answer in the moment. Yes, she has a special kind of ill. She is crazy. She needs help. She needs to get help played again, tell him against your because all the Democrats need to hear this. You're talking to all of them. Give this woman and how do you feel about her? I forget this woman at all. I think she was crazy. I think she had something going older. I actually she had a special ill will and she needs help, and she really needs help for sheep doesn't need help, and thank goodness that there was security camera footage because look, it's funny. The kid is stating this perfectly, really spelling out what the left needs to hear, but thank goodness. There was security camera footage because if not, who knows what would have happened at the very least his mother would've yelled at him and spanked him and sent him to time out. I don't know. He would have gotten in trouble for this and this is a particular incident that also represents a lot of other incidents. You got kids getting expelled from college because of uncorroborated unverified allegations not taken to the police, not take into the Justice system, but tallied up by kangaroo courts of professors who have no business investigating and prosecuting. Serious crimes. You've got supreme court justices having their characters assassinated because of unverified claims. It goes all the way up. It's, you know, this nine year old kid in a Brooklyn deli is a great example and symbol of of the dangers of what could happen if we take away due process and we take away the presumption of innocence and metoo is striking back. It is striking back against Democrats, specifically Democrats on the judiciary committee. This is just too delicious. Let me take a little sip of my tumbler. I before I get to this wonderful. Just as good as I remember them Senator Sherrod Brown democrat from Ohio, running against Jim, Ryan, achie-. Jim rachi and his campaign is now coming out with an allegation that shared Brown member of the Senate Judiciary committee, sexually harassed and assaulted a woman in the eighties. I love this. I love that. It's thirty years later. I loved it. Allegedly happened in the nineteen eighties. I loved it. It's a political opponent, bringing it against a democrat, and I love that. It's a democrat on the judiciary committee, very rarely do we see perfect examples of karma very rarely do these things hit exactly the way that they came out and that's, that's what's happening here. So according to the, we're Naci campaign quote, this encounter of this is actually according to the accuser purported victim. She said this account happened after Sherrod Brown's divorce. She described an unexpected uninvited unwanted and sudden advance roughly pushing her up against a wall. It did not stop. After she expressed dismay and very firmly pulled away explaining that was not her style more while she was there. Although she was able to diffuse the situation, she got out it did shake her up and she told friends about it as soon as she got home, this allegation is about a thousand times more credible than anything Christine for it has said regarding Brad Kavanagh and and this doesn't sound credible ITO. I'll be perfectly Frank. This accusation against a shared Brown unless they can bring some more evidence isn't terribly credible, eat is a thousand ten thousand times more credible than anything. Christine. Ford said. It's almost a one to one. It happened in the nineteen eighties. Okay, except that shared Brown. In this case was an adult who had been divorced in the case of Christine. Ford's accusation Cavanaugh was seventeen years old, then shared Brown. According to this accusation, pushed her up against a wall Pender used his body. It was. Unwanted and it was rough. That was the same allegation against a teenage breath Cavill except in this case, shared brand was apparently stone cold sober. And in the case of the Ford allegation, cavenaugh was drunk. Maybe if he was even in the room, then she expressed dismay. Ford expressed dismay, both of them expressed dismay, and in both cases they didn't stop. And then in both cases, the women just got out of there, they were able to get out of there fortunately and, but it still shook them up. The difference here is that the woman accusing democrat Sherrod Brown of this kind of conduct apparently told her friends immediately after it happened and the and the friends corroborating in the case of Christine forward. She didn't tell anybody for thirty thirty years over thirty years. And then her story changed a million times. And then the friends that she said could corroborate it didn't corroborate and actually refute it. This is so much hope. Also, both of them wanted to remain anonymous. The woman accusing Sherrod Brown is anonymous, the woman Christine Ford wanted to remain non. Animus until the Democrats leaked the story and what is shared brand? How has he responded to this? This dirty rotten hypocrite. He said, this is character assassination. You're damn right? It's character assassination. Absolutely. And I hope you enjoyed every second of that character assassination. I mentioned this during the fourth thing I said, if we actually want to stop this sort of baseless smearing the these things that discourage good people from going into politics that make mockery of our system of Justice that make a mockery of the presumption of innocence. Democrats have to feel it too, and one of the perfect Democrats to feel it is feeling it now share it Brown democrat, enjoy your characterists nation. Enjoy this perfect. One to one can't wait to see how Democrats respond. You probably haven't heard about this story because nobody is covering it. Surprise surprise. Well, maybe it'll be covered in Ohio before the midterm elections. I also have to thank Alexandria Casio Cortes as always occasional cortex as Steve ward says, because she. She has perfectly exemplified why millennials don't understand anything at all. She was doing an interview with Jimmy Kimmel here is just a quick clip of of the poetic diction of Alexandria. Oh, Casio. Cortez do beat a ten time incumbent guy who just assumed that he was going to win and you came out of nowhere. You're working as a bartender and decided that it would be a good idea to run for office. It's really one of the most remarkable stories I've ever heard east stop and think about this from time to time ago, believe this is happening. Yeah, people just lizard like wait or it's like back in the day. Yeah. Yeah. People be like, is this real? No, it's Jackson the party. Yeah. Yeah, they do. And it's yeah. Yeah, hometown. Yeah, absolutely. And I don't know if it's because we're from the Bronx. It's like exotic to us and she was like, yeah, no, my husband is a is a huge fan of yours, motion, activated, Chachi behind me. That's like singing Jingle Bells chilly. No, like like, yeah, yeah. Like the thing you know like about that clip like is it shows like how clear speech is reflective of clear thinking like, you know, and that's why you know like it's so totally hard. You know, you know, do you know? Do you know? Yeah. Yeah, man. I know this is how millennials talk. We all do it even I do it. Sometimes I'll occasionally slip in a like or a yeah or a, you know, sometimes I'll do it for comic effect. Sometimes I'll do it just in my speech, and this is a very bad thing. People should. Refrain from doing this too, right well is to think clearly to speak well is to think clearly when you don't speak well when you don't write, well, you're not thinking clearly very often. It's reflective of how you're thinking. You must avoid all of these likes. And and yes, the other thing that's reflective of is the relativist presumptions and premises and culture that millennials are in, you know, man, like, yeah, millennials, no longer say, I think they say, what did they say? They say, I feel like they don't say, I think they don't say, I believe they say, I feel like, well, I just feel like blah, blah, blah, you know, I feel like blah, blah, blah. They won't say that was a delicious dinner. They'll say that dinner was like really good. You know it was like really good. It wasn't really good. I'm saying it was like really good. The reason that people do this subconsciously unconsciously or consciously is because they want to distance themselves from making a claim because there's no such thing as. The truth to these people. There is only your truth and my truth and like, who am I man to say what like the truth is, you know? So it's always like it's always a similarly. It's always similar to this thing, but not quite that thing. I'm I'm never making a claim. I'm always explaining my feelings about the claim. I feel like it's a really bad way of thinking and the way that you speak is going to dictate how you think, because the words or the stuff of our consciousness, the words are the medium of how we think. So if you use debase language views of vague language, if you use squishy language, you're gonna think innovate debased, and squishy way do not be like occasional cortex, be like, like, you know, like man a serious thinker in use precise language and use hard language and use blunt language, do it as best you can. The culture stacked against you and trying to get you not to do that. Try to do that on your own. Now I've got so much more advice and so many more paroles of wisdom. On these things and a lot more to cover on this day in history on how Kleenex is finally, capitulating feminists and admitting that feminists or disgusting is any man and this caravan at the border. All of that will just happen daily wire dot com. If you're on Facebook and YouTube go over, come on, man. Go over there. Like, come on, you know? Yeah, it'll be really fun. Yeah, you'll get me. You'll get the intrigue at the Ben Shapiro show you get to ask questions in the mail bag. You'd ask questions in the conversation. None of that matters. You'll also get to see us a politic on your stream or appearance of politic on over the weekend. But you'll get this and this these leftist tears. They're like, oh, they're like. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. They are like so so good. And they're really important. This is the Sherrod Brown vintage. This is the democrat Senate Judiciary me to boomerang vintage and it's a young vintage. It's only going to mature. It's only going to get better, go to daily wire dot com. We'll be right back. There's a French expression Poussin Pugh, Salem shows the more things change. The more things stay the same in the American idiom. Obviously, some things get worse. Language gets worse. Oh, Casio gets worse. The metoo movement descends into these awful things, but so many things stay the same. I just came across this clip from nineteen ninety one. It's an appearance of Robin Williams, the late great Robin Williams on the Johnny Carson show, and he's describing the confirmation hearings of Justice. Clarence Thomas one of the great justices on the court, a brilliant guy. Here's how Robin Williams describes him. I don't. It's always I've been watching the supreme court hearings. It's a little amazing Mr. Thomas, your opinion of Roe versus Wade. I prefer to float. Okay. Come on. They've really hit all sorts of witnesses. He was that good. They can't get real answers out of him. I mean, how they get people that people have no legal opinions, no written opinions and basically four weeks ago, I was driving trucks. Now I'm sitting on the highest court in the land. Thanks George Bush home study course. You be. Supreme court. You get it. He was an idiot, wouldn't an idiot. He doesn't Clarence Thomas. He doesn't even have any opinions. He doesn't. He he's a judge is a judge and he has a lot of written opinions and he ran a lot of important offices, but anyone to yell law school by the way, top law school in the country. But he's like an idiot. You know, he's like, you know, like like he's an idiot and this was the attack. They always do this and one Clarence Thomas was an idiot. He was a sexual assailant. He was he was a black man in a high tech lynching being accused without any evidence of sexual assault and oversexed black man was the image that was being painted by the left and they would go back and forth on this. You heard what even Robin Williams alludes to it there. Oh, he was a good boy. Oh, he was a good boy making fun of the character witnesses that came up for for Clarence Thomas the same exact thing. Making the same jokes twenty seven years ago for the same reason and Robin Williams even admits the same reason Roe versus Wade. Why did he bring up Rovers his wait? Was it to make a fairly lame joke gay? It it Roe versus Wade. I prefer to float. They weren't all winners. You know, sometimes Robin Williams is very funny. Sometimes he had some clunkers that was one of them, but it's Roe versus Wade. That's what it was all about. It's what it's going to be about. We like to flatter ourselves, especially on the left. They like to flatter themselves and say, this is the moment. This is the crisis. It's always a crisis. The Saudi Arabia thing, it's always a crisis, the new crisis. That's the view of politics on the left. That's the view of politics from rationalists. There's always a new crisis that we have to fix. That's not the view of politics from conservatives and it shouldn't be. It's not a crisis, Saudi Arabian government behaving like the Saudi Arabian government is not a crisis. If that's a crisis, you need to do a little more homework. You've got you gotta calm down. A Justice who interprets the constitution as it was to be interpreted at the time of ratification. That's not a crisis. That's the opposite of a crisis, but they'll always try to make it up that way. They're going to do it for the next judge that we put up to the supreme court. They're going to do it for the federal judges as well. It's not a crisis calm down. Don't be fooled by that kind of language. Oh, Clarence Thomas. He's an idiot because Robin Williams said some comedian on late night said so. Oh, cavenaugh. He's impassioned. He's this. He's a bet. No, he's a frat boy. He doesn't know anything. No, don't buy it. It's the, it's so tired, it's they do it all the time and they whip people up into a frenzy. There's no friends who to be had there. The consider the new crisis that they've made. The feminists have made out of Kleenex. If you've heard this story. Kleenex has had various sizes of tissues and for the last sixty two years, they've had a man sized tissue by, say, man sized tissue. What does that bring to mind, bigger, stronger, capable of dealing with grocer things more disgusting things. Yes, that's what the man's eyes tissue was because men are bigger and they're stronger, and they're more disgusting. That's a biological fact feminists have taken issue at this was one of the most popular products at Kleenex, three point, four million customers per year according to Kleenex, but it's very bad. It's very bad, you know, because it's gendered or we who, or you to say that men are bigger than women, they are obviously, but who are you to say it? Who are you to say that men are stronger than women? They are obviously, but who were you to say? It's a denial of reality and Kleenex has capitulated to it. And it's ironic. Because what feminists want that the implicit claim feminist who take issue with man-size tissues is that women are just as big and gross and disgusting as men and went when it comes to feminist. I can't disagree on the whole on average. I can't disagree. So congratulations feminists. You've you've gotten rid of the man tissues. You've proven that some women are just as disgusting as men and you've you've fought reality on the latest battlefront. Congratulations. The there is a caravan coming up to the border. There were four thousand illegal aliens who promised to crossover it. This is sponsored in large part by pueblos in frontier us people without borders and left-wing group that gets funding from George Soros Poussin JP Lucille meme shoes. Of course, these things are constantly happening. This is a bigger one though. This has happened before their four thousand people. Now, on average, the United States border patrol arrests thousand people a day can be as high as two thousand. Thousand people can be a little shorter. There were actually sixteen thousand six hundred and fifty eight family members. People who are coming here in families who were arrested in September by border patrol. Those are just the ones that they caught. A lot of people pouring over this border President Trump responded. He said, we're going to cut off aid to El Salvador. We're going to cut off eight hundred. We're going to we're going to ding Mexico. This was a perfect response, and I've talked to friends who are real Trump critics real never-trumpers, whatever. And they agree. This is the perfect response. He actually could go a little farther with this because these these guys should never make it to the US border. They should be stopped at the Mexico southern border, and absolutely we should threaten to cut off aid with all these guys. We should also threaten to tax or cut off remittances from the United States from Mexican nationals who make it into the United States and send money back into Mexico through Western Union through telegram services through money order services. We should threaten to cut that off or. It heavily if President Trump threatened a fifty percent tax on those remittances, you would see Mexico do something about this and he should do it. He should be pitiless about it. It is such an affront to our sovereignty to our Democratic Republic to the ability of Americans to govern themselves. When you have people pouring over the board invading the country, and you can't do anything about it, you we, the people who govern ourselves who were supposed to govern ourselves, can't do anything about it. It's an affront and it's a huge winner for Republicans it. I think something like the majority of Democrats, depending on which Paul, you look at the majority of Democrats oppose this and are horrified by so many aspects of illegal immigration even down to the so-called dreamers. You know, these, these kids who didn't choose to be here even down to that level, the majority of Democrats oppose making amnesty for them a top priority. This is a slam dunk for Republicans. They should turn it up to eleven, especially as the midterms approach Trump should send the national guard down there. He should cut off. You should tax remittances. He should threatened. To cut off aid do it. All it could do is help Republicans and it's the right thing to do, and it would be good for the country on this day in history in seventeen ninety. Six. Just to remind you that blue such Priscilla ma'am shows the more things change. The more things stay. The same are third president. Thomas Jefferson was accused of a sexual affair sexual misconduct the the original me to the nineteenth century metoo movement. There is an editorial that that came up in a number of newspapers. A series of aditorial written by somebody named Fosi Seon p. h. o. c. I n this was when Thomas Jefferson was running against John Adams to become the second president of the United States, and it accused Thomas Jefferson of sleeping with his slave and having children with his slave of concubine slave, Sally Hemmings, which it seems from the historical record is true. Who's foe Seon none other than Alexander Hamilton? Is it any wonder that. People wanted to kill that guy that they wanted to challenge them to duels and shoot them. No wonder at all. He wrote, I think twenty five essays against Jefferson under this pen name Fosi on and it was a, it was a sex affair allegation. So I do wanna point out now that we're responding against the me too movement. This is long happened. There's always been sexual dirt in politics, y because sex is a primal major drive four men, especially. And so it's a good way to attack your political opponents when you can. This has happened for a long time that said, when you've got you know the entire national news media supporting these unfounded charges when you've got no evidence for those charges. There was evidence for the charge against Jefferson or a lot of kids look like Thomas Jefferson on that plantation and the and Sally Hemmings is kids would always pop out about nine months after Thomas Jefferson visited, and there weren't any kids that came out of nine months after Jefferson was away from home. So. There was some evidence here. I, I'm not saying that sex scandals are or unfair or they're off the table. Of course. You know, there are going to be on the table as long as politics exists, but there or degrees you. There's some devil in the details. I know that ideologues want things to be black and white. They wanna say Saudi Arabia, bad Turkey, good now for some reason or sex, all sex scandals or unfair. All this is off the table. All this. Not quite. You've got to look into the details. You know, all shallows or clear all shall Dr. Johnson pointed this out when when people are talking about religion or philosophy or politics or whatever say, well, that isn't. This isn't clear. Your point of view isn't clear. It's not ideological. I can't write it down in one doctrine on one pamphlet of one book or something right. Shallows are clear. Reality is complex reality is complicated and and also Jefferson was that election did. It was good attack though. He won for years later. So political winds can always change their changing now. We will see how they will change for the midterm elections, but we'll have to get to that next week. Enjoy another kingdom. Another kingdom, Andrew claybin narrative podcasts that I perform all the roles in is now available on audio to everybody non-subscribers and subscriber. So go subscribe, download it. And if you're a subscriber, you know, you get it much earlier. You get it on Mondays. You get to see the whole thing. It's really cool, great artwork. Do that. Enjoy the weekend, maybe. I'll see you politic on. Maybe I won't. In any case, I'll see you Monday. In the meantime. I'm Michael Knowles. This is the Michael Knowles show. The Michael Molson's produced by a Villarreal executive producer, Jeremy, boring, senior producer, Jonathan, hey, our supervising producer Mathis Glover and our technical producer is Austin Stevens edited by Jim Nichol. Audio is mixed by Mike core. Amina hair and makeup is by Jessica over the Michael Knowles show is a daily wire for would publishing production copyright forward publishing twenty eighteen.

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Amanpour: Norman Ornstein, Susan Glasser, Madawi Al-Rasheed and Stanley Nelson

Amanpour

58:34 min | 1 year ago

Amanpour: Norman Ornstein, Susan Glasser, Madawi Al-Rasheed and Stanley Nelson

"Hey, everyone. It's poppy Harlow spring has sprung and we are out with new boss files. Episode this week, meet Mindy Grossman. She's the president and CEO of WW the newly rebranded Weight Watchers, and she's leading a herculean turnaround of the more than fifty year old brand with nearly five million subscribers turning the focus away from weight loss and onto wellness. Plus, the Oprah affect the media mogul is not only a spokeswoman, but a board member and one of the largest shareholders checkout boss files today. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Xeni offers thousands of affordable. Eyewear styles starting at just six ninety five. No ridiculous markups. No hassles. Just quality affordable. I wear delivered right to you visits. Any today at Xeni dot com slash CNN, high podcast listeners great program tonight as all sorts of deadlines a missed by the Trump administration to provide evidence to congress we drill down into whether this is a constitutional crisis. And we get to talk to norm Ornstein who's been a longtime congressional observer. And he is the expert and also to Susan Glasser of the New York who's been writing about this, and how it is not business as usual between the White House and congress, and then I talked to Maddow, Rasheed. She's a Saudi Arabian professor here. The London School of economics. And she's telling us about the increase in stepped up repression inside Saudi Arabia, which looking about the thirty seven men who. Were executed in one fell swoop last week. And how some of them have said that their so called confessions were extracted under torture, and particularly how so many women are being put into prison, and even the lawyers that are defending them, then Walter Isaacson has a great conversation with Stanley Nelson. Who's documented the African American experience? Like, no other these talking about how they managed to come up with businesses despite the crushing inequality because of racism enjoy the show. Welcome to the program, everyone, I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. It's a day of missed deadlines for President Trump and his administration with the attorney general William bar declining to provide the unredacted Mahler report to congress by it's nine AM deadline this morning, it's dramatically ratcheting up the drama as a congressional panel will now vote on whether to hold Baugh in contempt on Wednesday. And it comes as President Trump maiden about face on the special counsel testifying before congress after initially saying that he would support BAAs decision on the matter. He tweeted this morning. Bob Muller should not testify. Meanwhile, the clock is also running down on Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin after missing two previous deadlines he said to reveal whether he'll actually comply with congress and release the president's tax returns, something Mr. Trump has been refusing to do since his candidacy began back in two thousand fifteen. So what are we seeing here is this an extreme? Version of the usual cut and thrust that happens between different branches of government. Or are we witnessing the route to a constitutional crisis? Joining me with answers to expert. Susan Glasser a staff writer for the New Yorker and author Norman Ornstein political scientists and longtime congressional expert welcome both of you to the program. Thank you. So let let me ask you the question that I just just, you know, posited. What do you make Norman all the way over there in potent? And you've been studying this for a long long time of this reluctance by the department of Justice highest official the attorney general basically flouting this congressional deadline. What should we make of it? This is not business as usual Krisztian. This really is a difference. We've had of course, other cabinet members who have had disputes with congress, including Eric Holder, and the Obama administration, we've had contempt citations issued we've had delays, but in the past it's always been resolved through some kind of negotiation. This in terms of the volume the blanket refusal to cooperate the direct challenges to the authority of congress from the Justice department from the president from a whole series of cabinet agencies is simply unprecedented in our modern age at least, and it is leading to a constitutional crisis. So you think it is let me ask you, Susan Glasser. If you agree with that sort of maximalist interpretation of what's happening that it is leading to a constitutional crisis. And if so what exactly does that mean? And what does it look like including of? Course Steve Mnuchin the Treasury Secretary so far not not saying what he's going to do about the tax returns. Well, that's right into good point. It's not just about the Muller report. And I think that's something important for people to realize is that essentially President Trump has decided to his nose at the broad range of congressional investigations. And there are many that are ongoing since the Democrats have taken control of the house of representatives. The president has basically directed his staff not to cooperate at all with the new democratic house, and essentially he's daring them. He sees that. He has retained the Republican controlled Senate. He believes that there are not twenty Republican senators who are going to break ranks with him an ever go for a move to impeach and remove him from office as a matter of politics. I should say that that remains. I think a fairly accurate reading of the situation here in Washington. But as is typical with President Trump he is going to the. Ends degree with this strategy. And that's where I think is right to say it's something different than we've experienced in the past. Previous president didn't wanna dial up the confrontation with congress. They often wanted to dial it down. And it seems that President Trump is almost daring the house of representatives to go farther, perhaps even daring them to him beach him and see that there's potential political benefit for himself in a l'armee his Republican base in advance of the twenty twenty presidential election. But it really what it means is that we're headed down a course of confrontation because these are co equal branches of government under our constitution. And so that leaves potentially the courts to referee this fight, which is always a risky situation. So you've just you've just brought in the courts, which is obviously the other branch of the American government gnome, you know, it's really fascinating to hear what Susan just said. And what you've. Said what would a constitutional crisis, and I ask because many people say and particularly people around the world, and obviously people in the United States as well that the health of the American institutions is robust, and that no matter what happens no matter whether a president challenges the more than another one the institutions still remain, and they can still carry out their constitutional requirements that constitutional duties. So we have seen some heartening things over the course of the last two years, we have had some independence on the part of the judiciary. When it came to for example, they travel bans that the president instituted. We've seen a few instances where courts have stepped up. But one thing that I've learned from my visit this time in Europe is something that I knew before, but it's been reinforced no society is immune from a slide towards autocracy, a direct challenge to the fundamentals of this system won't necessarily hold, and we have seen our judges become tribalize d- and a partisan is along the same lines that we've seen in congress, and in our politics more generally, and it wouldn't be surprising with the degree to which Trump has been able to stack the courts. He's now picked about a sixth of all the appeals court judges in the country. There is a clear Republican majority on the supreme court. That they might uphold the level of executive power that would pretty much make congress and impotent body. Now, that's not to say that it would hold for a long time. It wouldn't surprise me. If there were a democratic president down the road with a Republican congress that they would say never mind just as we saw with Bush v gore, which was a one time thing, but this is dangerous territory and a president and a broad set of institutions stonewalling like this. And as Susan said, not just on the Muller report. A an attorney general who who's only parallel would be John Mitchell during the Nixon administration, but many more cabinet officers who are in the same category. This is really a place. We don't wanna be so right now, it's all about oversight. Throw a lot of it is about oversight and trying to hold the administration the president accountable. So to that end congressman Jerry Nadler was saying that if we cannot. Get request met, for instance, with attorney general William Bob that really does affect the way the American democracy is able to remain healthy and transparent for the people. But he also injected a bit of a fear for the future. I'm just going to play this little bit of what he said last week. This is a grave danger from Eric in democracy. And we must do all we can in the name of the American people to ensure. That when the Trump administration ends we have as robust a democracy to hand to our children, which was handed to us. So I it's very interesting the way he puts it and to both of you. And I'll ask you for Susan. He also said in a different part of that address to the press that you know, what's going on is a little bit the difference between democracy and dictatorship democracy. Requires the consistent checks and balances of the institutions and transparency and accountability. What what do you make Susan of what he said? And the way he threw the gauntlet down there. I mean is that is that over egging it, or is it that dramatic do you think? Well, he has used fairly apocalyptic language. The other day an antigen that nothing less than the future of democracy is at stake in whether or not attorney general bar complies with this subpoena for the unredacted Mullah report and the underlying evidence, you know, it's an interesting debate. You said earlier in the program is this the constitutional crisis. What's amazing about the Trump presidency is at almost every? Single day since he was inaugurated people have been asking themselves one way or the other is is it is this the crisis. Is this the moment and to me that's number one that actually President Trump himself is the crisis, right, and it takes many different forms number to the issue of the role of congress and the role of the courts is really come into focus in a way that it hasn't in any other presidency of my adult lifetime, certainly is it a crisis for congress to move forward with investigating the president or for the courts to enact decisions against the executive branch. Arguably not arguably that's exactly how our system of government is supposed to work. Right. Those checks and balances that you referred to on the other hand for Trump to pursue again. And again, a strategy of confrontation with other branches of government in hopes of testing their limit and their boundaries. I think that's what chairman Jerry Nadler is referencing here that have cars doesn't act. That's when you might. Have a crisis. If it fails to perform the oversight responsibilities. They're the only way in our system of imposing accountability on a president. Otherwise, there really is unchecked almost dictatorial power that we've invested in the White House. If congress won't do anything about it on what would a contempt of congress. Look like as suggesting might happen. If for instance, the attorney general does not comply and reveal the unredacted the full maller report. Well, what is what does it mean practically? Before I get to that. Chris gann? Let me underscore something. Susan said earlier, if this were simply a dispute between congress and the president I wouldn't be as worried, but we don't have a single Republican in the house or Senate whose objected to lying by cabinet members Wilbur Ross, the commerce secretary, for example, who stood up after a bar testified in front of the Senate and dissemble repeatedly offering any unease about it. So that's one of the real problems. We have here it's not just congress against the president. It's a democratic house against Republicans in the house the Senate and the president now beyond that the power that congress has to start with is to hold officials in contempt or to impeach them. Impeaching them. Requires a Senate that would go along with two-thirds and right now, no Republicans would do that contempt means going to the courts and where we've seen. That occur in the past. It can take months and months now if we go back in history congress actually has an inherent contempt. Thority? There's a jail in the congress in the capital, they could send out capital police are US marshals and arrest the attorney general in theory and put them in jail. But of course, that's not going to happen. And the fact is we rely on the norms of this process as much as we do the rules, and the laws, and in this case, the law isn't gonna work because contempt could lead us all the way through the remainder of this presidential term and the norms have broken down completely. And that's where our crisis is. It's more in the breakdown of norms. So given the breakdown of Noam's that you describe mean, President Trump came in as a self-declared disrupt of norms. I mean, he just said this is this is what I'm going to do. I'm not going to be politically, correct. I'm gonna say it like, I see it. And I am going to change. Things because that's what voters want. So again, the question is. Is this just trumping Trump and do the gnomes in a way have to all must stay because he's the president sort of expand shifted a little bit for as long as he's president. I mean, for instance, the bitch about Mullah testifying in front of congress in public. You know, he's saying the Democrats looking for a redo that they've already stolen those are his words two years of the presidency. I'm does he have a point in a as a constitutional matter. What is the constitutional significance of Mullah, for instance, being called to testify? Well, Christiane I think this is an important point. First of all Trump is making a ridiculous argument in many ways, the notion that it's a redo to have Muller testify and tell the public about this two year investigation that the public paid for, you know, of course, that's not a redo. That's how the system is supposed to work. It's it's literally an absurd argument, and that goes to your broader point, Trump would love nothing more for the American public just to see him as some sort of a truth teller, who's telling uncomfortable facts to the snooty elite and just challenging political correctness, but you know, the legal theories and the view of the presidency itself that he and his advisors are advancing is a direct contravention of the system of government that that the founders envisioned, and it's not just, you know, telling uncomfortable truths to have the attorney general of the United States testify under oath as he did last week in the United States, Senate and. William bar said it was a breathtaking moment he said, the president of the United States in his view has so much power that he can shut down any investigation of himself. If he believes it to be unfair. That is the most sweeping assertion of executive power. That Americans have heard since Richard Nixon said to David Frost that actually it's not illegal. If the president does it, and I don't think that's just being politically, correct. Or politically incorrect as the case, maybe that's just a shocking statement to that point of former congressional council tells the Wall Street Journal, quote, the entire system of checks and balances depends on congress constantly looking at how the country is being goven. He was a former general counsel who says that. So clearly that is the foundation of what makes the United States this bastion of democracy rule of law and all the other values at the United States stands for. And I wanna put it that way. Because no you. In poland. You're in Warsaw at the heart of what is a very close US ally. Fort, the certainly suddenly the non-communist polls Ford joining the war on the allied side. They've had concentration camps in their own country. You've just witnessed commemoration of some of that. And you've seen you're seeing what they're doing in terms of trampling the rule of law. Just explain what Poland is doing. And what kind of I suppose contagious effect that can have in our democracies? You know, what we're seeing in Poland as we have seen across Europe, not just central and eastern Europe. But now in western Europe in Italy with the rise of power on the right in Spain in so many countries, and we're seeing it here. Obviously tangibly now is a move away from democracy back towards autocracy and in some countries. It's moving more rapidly than others. There's a challenge to fundamental authorities and to the democratic norms and Trump has accelerated that when we see other strong, boop figures like Erta, Juan and duty using the term enemy of the people to jail their own press. We're seeing this play out in a lot of places it's not just the United States and many of the forces that brought us to where we are in the United States, preceded Trump, and he's just. Accelerated them. But once you've lost some of that sense of how democracy is supposed to work, and how checks and balances are supposed to work. It's not easy to get them back and one of the things about Trump is he knows as he said himself two years ago, I could shoot somebody in broad daylight on Fifth Avenue, and I wouldn't lose a single vote forty percent or so of Americans are with him. No matter what they don't care that. He's shattering the norms a substantial number of them would be perfectly happy with the dictatorship. And that makes it much more difficult, and it makes it particularly difficult because his own party is acting in the phrase of Lindsey Graham, who's been as big a perpetrator as anybody for party over country. That's a dangerous thing. It's an unusual thing. And it is something we haven't seen in the fifty years at least that I've been around Washington and our politics Cicilline. Lastly to you then because you're sitting right there in Washington, you know, what Noam just said about a significant. The number of Americans wouldn't wouldn't mind strong man or some kind of a dictatorship. He's actually quoting a poll, which actually is suggested as much I mean, just to be clear he's not just saying that out of nowhere. And it was shocking when it came out, but I wonder how you reacted to what Nancy Pelosi has said in an interview to the New York Times that the Democrats should be careful about the whole impeachment rush to impeachment and concentrating on that. And they need to be careful about the next election because she sees a possibility that President Trump could cry foul and questioning election that didn't go his way. How how seriously is that being dissected in Washington this time? Well, it was a striking comment. And I think you're right to highlight it, but remember this was also said in the run-up to the two thousand sixteen election as you recall. There was a lot of fears that Trump he was expected to lose, of course. And a lot of people thought at that time, he might not recognize the outcome of the election. Obviously, that's one of many might have bins. We don't know the answer to because he did win in that upset in my own view. There is a raging debate here in Washington right now over not only whether Democrats in the house should proceed with impeachment proceedings. Even though they know they are very likely doomed to fail in terms of actually removing Trump from office. But there are consequences on the other side of the ledger to the politics of impeachment might look one way in a set of polls taken today, but from the long view of history. What would be the consequence of Democrats saying we can't proceed for political reasons against Trump and leaving there for unchecked allenged many? Of the extraordinary actions. He has taken in his two years in office. Let's not forget that he attempted to fire the special counsel order to his aides to do. So he did. In fact, fire the FBI director and fire his own. I attorney general in the effort to shut down an investigation of himself. These are significant challenges to not only norms, but to laws in any other circumstance their challenges to Congress's authority and Nancy Pelosi Democrats in the house leave these uncontested actions. I think that's the other part of the political debate over President Trump. And so it's not resolved here. That's why you see them proceeding with the investigations because nobody is quite sure how any of this is actually going to turn out. But nor MS right. Forty percent of the American public still supports Donald Trump. You can't look away from that fact so much has happened the last two and a half years and yet the polls have remained. Amazingly, even shockingly consistent. And so that's the political reality in which this is all playing out here in Washington. And it's it's pretty unbelievable. I'm by the way, according to the latest latest poll and even higher numbers support his handling of the economy something like fifty six percent. So that puzzle of this in in stock perspective, Susan Glasser, norm Ornstein. Thank you very much. Indeed for joining me the evening. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Zanny optical offer, a huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Xeni dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available in hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus is any offers prescription sunglasses that incredible prices. Visit Xeni today. Eggs, any dot com slash ready. That's Z E N N. I dot com slash ready. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. I'm Biagio Messina. I'm joke VIN seeing where the producers behind h television documentary series unmasking killer. Join us as we explored the identification capture and arrest of Joseph James, D Angie. The alleged Golden State killer in a special ten part podcast series unmasking killer, all new episodes premiering Tuesday. February twelfth subscribed today at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Now, as these confrontations continue it is not the only area where the Trump administration. I'm congress clash Saudi Arabia is another major flashpoint while President Trump has been keen on building the relationship with the Saudi Kim gun. Come. What may the legislative branch is denouncing the nation for its role in Yemen's four year war, and of course, for the murder and dismemberment of journalists Jamal kashogi inside the Saudi consulate inter key last October less than two weeks ago. Saudi Arabia executed thirty seven men quote terrorism. But court documents revealed that defendants told the judge they were tortured into confessions are Damon has an exclusive interview with a Saudi lawyer who defended some of those men he told her that he started receiving messages trying to make him come home just like Jamal kashogi received messages. His report. Seventeen and arrested for protesting. Oh, sleep-deprived tortured and coerced into confessing something I didn't do an interrogator threatened this six year old if you don't validate your confession. I will kill you father and your mother and this young man also claiming he was abused. In custody. Conversion was written by the entire gator. I signed it only after torture and threats. These are statements made an ace Saudi court by some of the thirty seven whose death sentences were carried out in the second largest mass execution and the kingdom's recent history. Taha and has haunted by their stories. He was a lawyer in his former homeland of Saudi Arabia where he briefly represented some of those executed in April on what he calls trumped up and bogus spying and terrorism charges the day of their execution. The Saudi government said Justice had been served, but hundreds and hundreds of pages of documents exclusively obtained by CNN lay. Bare another narrative. The how to court documents are proof of torture and injustice, and they still have the audacity to say, they are merciful, and humane. The defendants say that they confessed because they were being tortured that should have been investigated under Saudi law alma who'll Covey at the judge is supposed to take this seriously to ask the interrogators for an answer to these allegations. But what happens in most of these cases that the judge ignores it Saudi Arabia has denied accusations of torture in the past and the Saudi government has not responded to CNN's numerous queries about the allegations of confession under torture. As stated in the court documents among the crimes are accused of committing demonstrate violence spine, organizing demonstrations, filming misleading videos and communicating with soaring media. Toss suspects that the government might help. Also accused him a false crimes while still in Saudi he received a call asking him to appear Eddie police station. He fled the same day. But even here in German heat is wary of the far reaching tentacles of the Saudi government. Very politely worded letter from the Saudi embassy here that he caught on his phone. How do they get your number? Amount of the I don't know how they got my number. This was a new number two message from someone claiming to be a Saudi official and Berlin says the homeland still welcomes it sons with open arms, and if you want I could help you go back. I guarantee you an easy return that you will thank me for CNN has obtained explosive new video in the murder investigation of Washington Post columnist Jim off a few months later, the news of the brutal murder of journalist Shimon hush-up. She dominated the headlines. He too had received similar assurances from Saudi officials wwl in the. I talked to myself that could be in the same state as if I had agreed. Brought this to my mind right away. He says his government could try to get him even here, but he will not stop using his freedom to be of voice for those who are still inside for those who are being tortured and abused for those who can't scream even when they are in pain. Arwa Damon CNN Berlin. So let me just read a statement at the Saudi authorities did give now it wasn't in response to the allegations of torture and confessions under torture, but it was in response to questions about that mass execution, and this is what they have said Justice was served. The kingdom of Saudi Arabia has long ago dominated a zero tolerance policy towards terrorists. Who spill the blood of the innocent threaten the national security. The kingdom and distort. Our great faith, the convicted criminals who executed had their day in court and were found guilty of very serious crimes. So for more all of this. I'm joined by Saudi scholar, Maddow, Rasheed. She's a visiting professor at the London School of economics Middle East center. And she's with me here on the set the Dow she'd welcome to the program. You know, you've been you've been a critic for a long time. You've watched what the government's been doing for a long time. I guess where does this? I will mass execution fit into a country that in any event has the death penalty. And you heard what I read that Justice has been served. Well, it fits very well. And since the beginning of two thousand nineteen we had one hundred and four executions. But the shocking thing was the mass execution and also that crucifixion explain that what what do you mean? Well, usually, the beheading takes place, but in one particular prisoner case, he after beheading he was crucified, and there were reports that he was on display, but it is it is in line with what Saudi Arabia does. The death penalty is upheld in Saudi Arabia. But the worrying thing is that judiciary. That is not independent. So we know that death penalty exists and democracies and autocratic regimes. But when there is no way to challenge the courts and the courts are under the authority of the ministry of interior or even higher in in this particular moment under the authority of the crown prince Mohammad bin Salman than it is very difficult to see how Justice is done. Can. I just put up a graphic that we do have with a list of those countries because you did mention that their death penalty, even some democracies like the United States. Let's just put that up and just say that Amnesty International on twenty global executions listed China as being the one who executed the most there. No numbers, actually because the data is not public Iran, then Saudi Arabia's number three, Vietnam, Iraq Egypt. The United States is seventh on that list. I'm before we get to some of the, you know, some of the some of the. The points of why Saudi Arabia says they executed these people, you know, when there is a country like the United States, which also has the death penalty. What then is the mitigating ability of diplomacy or appeal to human rights or peel to their allies Saudi Arabia's a big ally of the United States Mohammed bin Salman is somebody that United States has has has taken a major gamble. Also, certainly the Trump administration. I believe he's their man. What can the US do in these instances, the US doesn't want to do anything? Especially at this particular moment, we have seen how Saudi Arabia and the Saudi regime itself got away with murdering a journalist in the consulate in Istanbul on the second of October. And Mr. Trump at the time said, maybe they did it maybe they didn't. And even when he was confronted with the report of his own intelligence services. Here refused to take any. Notice. So at the moment, those who are calling for human writer coating for open trials open representation, and lawyers to defend those people who in an independent court are really having no support from governments in the west in the west what they are getting is quite a lot of media coverage and also support from the international global human rights organization, such as Human Rights, Watch Amnesty International and from the UN, of course, energy amnesty has talked about sham trials that violated international federal standards, which relied on confessions extracted through torture. We'll talk about that in a moment. And you mentioned the UN the head of the UN human rights commission. Michelle Basch lead is particularly important that at least three of those killed were minors at the time of sentencing. What do you think is going on? What do you think is the real reason some people say it's because they had links to. Iran. Obviously, there's a war of words at least between Iran and Saudi Arabia. Well, it is a message to Iran. But I think they're real victims are the community in Saudi Arabia, and that is the shack community of the eastern province, which is a minority minority in Saudi Arabia, and it had been at the forefront of protests in a very very peaceful way and the Saudis did this kind of execution in two thousand sixteen when they executed an important Shiite cleric by the name of number. Never. And what happened was that? Iran. Condemned the execution of the Shiite cleric, and then at immediately after that the Saudi embassy in Tehran was attacked and then there's relationship deteriorated. So the Iranians didn't stop the mobs attacking the Saudi embassy. But I think the execution are actually a domestic matter. Although the message might get to Iran domestically hammered man is ruling by. I fear on by repression, and this kind of mass executions which amount to a massacre at thirty seven people in one day. It's quite a lot and also lumping together different people different categories of people. One of the executed was shot. Religious caller who has invited to the national dialogue forum established under the road of king. Abdullah to talk about some Nishii relations quite a lot of the executed. We have evidence we have YouTube clips saying those people are giving lectures or mobilizing others. And I did not see any kind of sectarian tone in their speeches that they were given after two thousand eleven some of those people are very very young when they were arrested. They were only like under the age of sixteen and they were peaceful demonstrators who got really carried away with the uprising of two thousand but. They were arrested at the time. And then we are in two thousand nine hundred nine when they were execute briefly. All you surprised that we hearing. And this is what our Damon's report was that significant numbers of of these who executed told the court that they didn't mean what they said that it was only extracted under torture, and they were told what to right? Yes. Absolutely. I'm in torture and Saudi prison is concerned is confirmed by one woman activist illusion and hood lewd who told her family during their monthly visit that she was tortured that she was sexually abused physically. Abused? And she didn't want to talk about this issues early on Feerick that that might make her situation worse in prison. But at the end, she had lost hope and told her family her brother and Canada when did and her sister and brussel they were both talking to the media about the exact detail of horrific sexual. Abuse and torture in Saudi. So let me just ask you abroad, a story then because we've brought up women now there are women who are in jail now and reports from their families of abuse that and there are women who are fleeing like like it stepped up quite significantly that there are a couple of public cases, Bangkok, Hong Kong, etc. Saudi women, and what you think is going on with this rather stepped up number of women and others who are seeking asylum abroad. It's the only thing that has in common between these various cases of women activists in prison off religious scholars in prison of peaceful activists, lawyers who defend prisoners of conscience are in prison. And what we call the runaway girls. They tend to be very very young. They common factor is actually they are fleeing repression when things get really really bad. They have no recourse and in the case. Of the young girls the state or the government agencies failed to provide protection against some kind of abuse within the family. In fact, the government becomes an accomplice in this when they reach out to foreign governments asking them to return the girls, so they enforce the situation and bring the young girls back to Saudi Arabia. But there are so many cases at the moment that we owned to hear about very high profile ones. And also they have been using social media in order to publicize their case. So we know more about them. But there are young women in Saudi Arabia who are in so-called shelters, and this shelters are they can go to a state run shelter. If they're abused at home. But then it ordered to leave. They have to get their guardian to come and collect them, which means that sometimes you have to get the one who abuses you to come and find the documents to get you out. It's a phenomenal situation. Glad we're able to highlighted Madawi. Al Rashid, and particularly Human Rights Watch today has talked about this new app that Saudis are being being used to stop women from being able to leave and give them permission to leave. So we're going to keep an eye on this. Thank you so much. Indeed for joining us, which are now to our next guest. The EMMY award winning documentary filmmaker Stanley Nelson who's widely considered the foremost chronicler of the African American experience his latest work, boss. The black experience in business looks at the challenges faced by African American business owners from the civil war to the present day and he sat down without Walter Isaacson discuss what drives his work is production company, Firelight media and his upcoming film on jazz musician miles Davis, which is set released this summer. Stanley nelson. Thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. I was blown away by watching boss, and we've all known the problem that African Americans have had since the civil war in doing wealth creation. But what you show is how systematically the problem of wealth creation was even starting right after the war with the forty acres on the mule not being fulfilled. Promise. Tell me why you got onto that. And what you were trying to show. Well, I mean, I think the story of African American businesses is just such a poignant one, and that it's a story that we don't know and the resiliency of African Americans in fighting through that and starting banks and hair care companies and insurance companies and in the tech industry now. And I thought it was I mean, I thought if I didn't make the film who's gonna make it. And that it's not something that people like, oh, yeah. That's a great idea for a film. But that it could be made as a film and. And that's what we tried to do. And it seems a break a lot of stereotypes that also disrupt sort of this theme of America that we all have equal opportunity. Yeah. I mean, I think it's very clear that that so many times, and there's so many different stories in the film. Where African Americans start businesses or towns, even and they destroyed systematically. But I think that that's, you know, just to be clear that's not the focus of the film. The focus really is on the starting of the business and then making the business succeed. You talked about towns being destroyed because freed slaves and African Americans went out west to places like Oklahoma and started their own self contained enclaves. We have a clip here at part of Tulsa called Greenwood, and is one of my favorite parts of the movie less show. Thirtieth nineteen twenty one the mob came to Greenwood. This white woman is an elevator in this black teenager allegedly whistles at her talks to her. She is taken into jail, a mob gathers of whites and blacks and blacks and Tulsa are armed. They take their second amendment rights seriously, and they come with guns, and this is a threat. Someone fires into the crowd. And the riot is born this was not about the whistling boy in the elevator. This was about blacks becoming too economically powerful and showing well in a way that anyone would by creating buildings and constructing churches and having property. There was a whistle that blue. And then the mass invasion at the destruction of Greenwood. When the smoke cleared in the early morning of June first, nineteen twenty one black Wall Street lay in ruins. This is by far the largest single incident racial violence in all of American history. I think one of the most amazing things about that clip is the footage. You know, is that we're able to tell the story because of this newly discovered footage of Greenwood, and you actually see the the people in their homes, and and the right before what we saw is. You see them kind of building the town. You see them planting their gardens, you see black people on horseback hurting cattle 'cause they're in Oklahoma and all of those things, and then you see the destruction of of that. And it's just it's very moving to me, you know, partly because you can really see it you can visualize. What the town was one of the things I learned was that the first wheel businesses, which sort of services, whether it'd be barbershops, beauty and other things how did that help pave the way for building of wealth? One of the things that happened in the south was after the time of enslavement has African Americans became free many times they at black people took up. The jobs that they kind of already were doing. So, you know, if I was a barber, you know, if I would that you know, that was one of my duties, and I became a at my own barbershop. If I worked in the field, then I became a farmer. So a lot of those things led to the first businesses that African Americans had and lead to a certain amount of economic freedom. What were the obstacles though to we'll wealth accumulation? I think there were so many, you know, I mean at first and for a long time as we show in the film, African Americans really only soul to African Americans. You know, you could have a store that sold the black folks. But what people really sometimes I don't understand is that in most of this country, if you were even a black grocer. It was very hard to have a black grocery store that whites would frequent. So basically for a lot of the history of the United States after the civil war. Black people were having businesses that sold to black people. And so you know that in some ways limiting. Can't borrow capital. You could not go to a Bank and borrow money. That was somehow in some ways alleviated one black people started having their own banks. But you know, you you. And so many places you can even walk into a Bank. But if you could you couldn't get alone one of the obstacles seems to be the big corporations. You have a wonderful sequence of Arcelor Barnes who moved from being the executive suspense to the CEO Xerox to being the CEO or self. But she's a very unusual case. Why is it that it's hard for African Americans become the boss why there's this ceiling above you? And and it's not a glass ceiling. It's it's a real ceiling one of the things that are. So the says in the section we have on our slow is she says it was hard for me. Because what this what business looks at as excellence our white bid. That's what they that's what he says. That's what it looks like that's what it sounds like, you know, that's the model, and it's very hard for a black person apply, and especially for a black woman to fit into that model. How do you how do you fit it? If that's your standard of excellence. How would how do you break in people do it? But you have. Extraordinary one of the entrepreneurs you've done a documentary on before. And then as part of this one is Madame CJ Walker. Tell me about who she was and how she created a business. Yeah. So Madame CJ Walker was a woman who, you know, pretty much started out with nothing in the south. She started working for a woman named Annie Malone had a company called Perot products, a black beauty company in Chicago out of Chicago. And Madame Walker's said to self, you know, I could do this, and I could do it better. And so Madam Walker moved Indianapolis started her own company and just raised it from nothing until she had a whole series. I think it was one thousand nine hundred twenty different products that that that she had an and again is kind of in the Guinness Book of records as the first woman to start with nothing and earn a million dollars all of your documentaries almost deal with race from different angles. How does the arc of your career? How do you? You put those together deci. Here's the story. I'm trying to tell I feel that people should tell their own stories that stories are richer and deeper and more meaningful and more heartfelt. If they're told by the people who live them. So I try to tell stories that I live, you know, that I think are important, but I also think in very general terms, I'm really interested in an institutions, and and movements and things that are bigger than just, you know, the great man or woman of history. Now, the film that's coming out soon, which I just loved what I got to see of it is on miles Davis. And that seems a bit of a departure. I mean, you're doing somebody who is an artist and it just wakes up every morning with his music. In fact, let's do it clip about the importance of music to him. Music has always been like a curse with me. I've always felt driven to play it. It's the first thing in my life. Go to bed thinking about it and wake up thinking about it. It's always there. It comes before everything. Yeah. I mean, that's a just a beautiful clip. I mean, I think for me, I'm I'm a real music lover. I listen to music from the time. I go to bed that time. I wake up go to bed. It's just something that I've always wanted to do a pure music film, and you know, who who's better than miles because one miles is music is so great and so important, and I believe will last forever, but two miles a really complicated individual, you know, he's really complicated. And and and it makes it makes for a much richer film. He was complicated to in his feelings about race. Right. 'cause he gets beaten up by white deputy here in New York City. And it's sorta scars them for the rest of his life. There's an anger there that in his music sometime. Yeah. I mean, I think that that again, you know, miles of this so many facets two miles to to understand and try to unpack. And I always say that I think before you try to unpack any anybody or anything you have to. As I say that, you know, different people react to different stimuli in different ways. So you might have lived or I might have lived the same thing and reacted differently. But miles grew up. His father was a dentist and miles grew up in east Saint Louis, and they were for this standard for African African-Americans time, they were rich. Okay. They had a farm outside of the city miles had a horse. You know that you ride. I mean, you know, miles grew up rich, but he also grew up black in segregated America. You know, an e Saint Louis, so we had all that to pack on top of it also miles was very very dark skinned and miles was beautiful. You know, so we had that going on. Let let us show us up about the black death. So this is an amazing part of the movie yet think the darkness mouse, Davis's skin instead of seeing that as a liability he saw that as an asset. It was very different from anything that was projected on television or in movies at that time Maoz turn that into something. Cool something desirable. Cool, and that's what invite the birth of cool call this because that's what he does with his music is birth of cool miles of miles was making the film where like okay, so miles is just the coolest guy that ever lived. He just is you know, I mean. Somebody says in the film, you know, miles head the cars fast cars, the snappy close the miles head is closed. Taylor had beautiful women who's this? This. He says, you know, we not only wanted to play with Moslem wanted to be miles. That's that's what we wanted to be so miles is this has all these things going for him. But he also has this chip on his shoulder. You know, and you know, that part of that was his reaction to the racism that he was exposed to he's born in one thousand nine hundred ninety six racism that he's exposed to in that America. And you know, the he is that person. And he was always innovating in a way. This creativity is like don't stand still let me try a whole new form of music. Yeah. I mean, I think that that that's who miles was you know, to to our great benefit and sometimes they his own detriment. You know? I mean, you know, he breaks up groups just because he doesn't must do something else. You know, there's a great scene in the film where he asked Ron Carter has the what's one of the greatest group groups ever. And he asked Ron Carter to play electric bass in Ron's. No. But I was like, okay. Well there by you know, I mean. That's kind of how it was with miles. It was he had this thing where he constantly had to change constantly had to create. And you know, I think again for us listening to it. It's great because he made great music and some in so many different ways. But for him. Sometimes you personally, it was hard you next big project. I think is on the Atlantic slave trade, and you're gonna try to treat it as a business, right? Yeah. What we're working on on a four part series for CBS on the Atlantic slave trade. We're just starting now. And I think that you know, what are the things we wanted to try to do is say, look, this was the first global business. This was a business that that set so many things in motion shipping. Banking insurance, all of these things came out of of the slave trade. And you know, we it's only we never look at. This is a four part series on the train. It's not on slavery. It's on the trade, which was a business that that was Europe Africa north America, South America. The Caribbean were all involved in this trade. So it's the first real global business in the world. Small things you did that I find very interesting as I looked at. It was a training video. You did for the Starbucks company of what it's like to be in public and be black especially being at teen of color. They assume that you're doing something bad. I feel like I'm disturbing people by just being there like people feel uncomfortable. When I walk in explain why you did that. And what you conveyed their topics came came to to me after they have the incident where the four guys were arrested in Starbucks in Philly, and they decided that they were going to close their stores down and kind of have a training session for the for their employees, and they wanted to do a video. And so what we came up with was an idea of of African Americans and others just talking to the camera about how we feel in public spaces. And that so many times we don't feel. Entirely welcomed and vetted has its roots and may civil rights movement, which part a large parts of rights movement was to say everybody is equal in public spaces. Right. So you could go to a public library. You can go to a park you can go to a swimming pool. But we still as African Americans don't feel welcomed so many times when we walk into stores and other places did you have any reservations about working with Starbucks and to try to help smooth their situation over I mean for a second when they called me, you know, I wanted to meet with them. And then when I met with him, I read I mean, they were they were totally honest about it. You know, I mean they had they closed down their stores. They didn't have to do that. I think Starbucks in some ways they were really shaken by this, and they really wanted to try to make it right? And so I felt very comfortable and trying to help did we move onto quickly. Yes. I think so I mean, I think there's a lot more discussion to be had. I think it's really it's an important important discussion. And I learned so much from doing the film because they, you know, I didn't know that there were things that I didn't talk about I didn't ever think about the fact that you know, I am not comfortable going into a lot of places or it's not even uncomfortable. Just little you know, you put your hand on the door. Okay. I don't know what what's going to happen. What might happen? And I think that's important to talk about them of you company is Firelight media. And it's important for fire light to be training next generation, especially if African Americans who can own the story until the story. Yeah. Well, we have we have a documentary lab where where we train filmmakers of color of all races. So black Latino Asian. All races, and we have between ten and fifteen filmmakers who are we meant or in the lab at the same time. There have been over eighty filmmakers who have graduated the lab, we've you know, these are. Filmmakers are making full length films. They've been on all different networks we've had multiple films at Sundance one of our films just wondering award at Sundance this year. And he's Peabody's DuPont's all those things are films with one. And where do you see it going over the next ten fifteen years? Our next step that that will really push into raising money to do is to have it have a move for the for the filmmakers to make their second film. Because what we're finding is is people who have been to the lab, you know, they went to do pine. They wanna Peabody they win an EMMY, and it's still hard for them to get their foot in the door for that second film. So what we want to try to do is be able to give filmmakers seed, money mentorship to get that second film made. Because when I made my second film when I made two dollars and a dream, you know, William Greaves who was kind of my mentor said to me, we'll Stanley you've done it twice. They can't say it's an accident. You're on you. Away Stanley Nelson. Thank you so much for vandalism. Words of support from the maestro. That is it for now. Remember, you can always listen to a podcast see us online at I'm on poor dot com and follow me on Instagram and Twitter. Thanks for watching. And goodbye from London. Are you interested in learning how great companies grow? Download the Marceca podcast bar tech podcast tells the stories of real world marketers who use technology to generate growth at achieve business and career success from advertising to software as a service to data getting brands authentically integrated into content performs better that TV advertising. Typical life span of an article about twenty four to thirty six hours. We're reaching out to the right person with the right message, and it clear call that action that it's just a matter of time ready to learn the secrets of technology driven marketing that download the Martin podcast. Just search Martic A R T H wherever you download your podcasts.

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03:50 min | 4 months ago

TRAILER: Welcome from Paul

"Welcome to Spies of London with me Paul dettman. So my name's Paul. I have been a fan of spy fiction and spy movies for my whole life. The first Spy book. I read which I really enjoyed and remember as being a turning point for me was Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy by John le carre I missed the TV show the first time around but the Alec Guinness TV series is amazing as well. I'd also read Frederick Forsyth The Day of the Jackal everybody like the James Bond movies in the eighties Rodger Moore remains my favorite James Bond, but it was John Lee carries books, which really made me understand that Espionage and spying is about the mind and the Brain as much as it is about dashing around with guns in 2017. I took this further home and became one of the very first Air B&B experienced hosts in London doing spy walks in Mayfair Westminster along the terms and later on Baker Street when I was looking at the second world war my May faith. What was the first one? It's a cold war walk which starts out the old American Embassy as it is now and the sight of the litvinenko poisoning and walks through Mayfair finishing at Fleming's hotel, which is also famous for its spy history. This tour is great because it takes in John le carre a locations from his books. It takes in the litvinenko poisoning lots of embassies the Saudi Embassy in particular Shepherd Market, which has links to espionage as well as lots of other stories in the past and even rare book shops the walk has everything. So I wanted to do a podcast because I wanted to be able to offer the walks virtually to people who either cannot or will not or don't want to go to London physically. You can listen now anywhere in the world to the Mayfair walk and the Thames walk which also box the new American Embassy but you can also follow them with your earphones on walking around London if you want to and it's totally free, that's the great thing completely free, but the podcast allows me to look at particular spy books aspect. Non fiction these days focusing mainly on the Cold War but also on World War II soe and very recent happenings like the navalny poisoning the podcast comes out every week usually on a Friday. It's currently a solo podcast but I do have some spy friends and ideas for interviews with writers and spy experts in the UK and although we are recorded and I am based in the UK. We had very much Global Outlook. We do welcome listeners from the US Canada five eyes countries and Beyond including India and China as well. So we try to be objective following some of my recent episodes. You might find me somewhat skeptical about the FSB and g i u but we do try to be objective where we can I try and keep episodes down below half an hour 20 minutes is the sweet spot for people doing commuting and also your attention span, you know, if you're cooking the dinner if you're driving somewhere. If you see to fit 20 minutes into most things the great thing is the podcast is completely free to listen to and I am even fighting hard job. To avoid any advertising you can find this podcast on any of your favorite podcast apps and if you're struggling to find an app, if you don't want to use the standard Apple or Google ones, please go to Spotify, and you can listen on the website and you can follow using your favorite app from there. We are also on Spotify. We are on Stitch. We are on literally everything overcast Pocket Casts off the new Amazon podcast audible thing that's happening soon. We are everywhere. We are completely free. We come out on a Friday and it will only tell you twenty minutes to Listen to If you like spies and you like walk by fiction and you like cold war and you're interested in London Spies of London, is the place to go I'm Paul and I'm really looking forward to welcoming you want to the podcast please go and listen. It is completely free forever.

London John le carre American Embassy Spies Paul dettman litvinenko Mayfair John Lee Mayfair Westminster Saudi Embassy Spotify Frederick Forsyth James Bond UK FSB Amazon Rodger Moore
Nov. 9, 2018: Unfair trade, knives out, blood money, the mummy and Japan Yesterday.

Japan This Week

17:50 min | 2 years ago

Nov. 9, 2018: Unfair trade, knives out, blood money, the mummy and Japan Yesterday.

"At a press briefing after the midterm elections US President Donald Trump blasted a Japanese reporter for his poor English. And then blamed Japan for unfair trade practices among other things. What things will tell you in our first story. Passengers will be banned from carrying unpacked knives aboard all trains in Japan starting next year after a deadly attack in June. What this means for travelers in a few minutes. The CEO of soft Bank. One of Japan's richest men defends his company accepting Saudi money after journalist was murdered by agents of the kingdom, some consider it blood money. More details coming up. A man who hasn't left his house in forty years has been arrested for abandoning the corpse of his mother at their home in Yokohama that story later in the show. Babe Ruth, the babe. The Sultan of swat the great Bambino toured Japan in nineteen thirty four at the height of his fame and fans in baseball. Magic pan were enthralled that relationship soured though, during the war years, we'll tell you all about the latest in our Japan yesterday series at the end of the show. So hang in there. Hi, and welcome to Japan this week, a quick recap of stories we've been following on the Japan today website for November ninth two thousand eighteen I'm Jeff Richards. Thanks for joining us. And let's get right to it. Well, it seems we can't go week without US president Donald J Trump ending up in our news podcast about Japan. But well here we are in our first story. Trump was in fighting form at a news conference this week after his country's midterm elections, which saw the Democrats retake the house while his Republican party expanded its majority in the Senate he got into several arguments with journalists after the results were in which resulted in chief White House correspondent Jim Acosta. Having his press pass suspended when a Japanese TV reporter asked him about trade Trump. I said say Hello to Shinzo referring to Japanese Prime minister, Shinzo Ave. He then told reporter he couldn't understand him presumably, meaning his English and not the topic. He was addressing him about after that he accused Japan of treating the United States unfairly on trade claiming that Japan exports. Cars with low tariffs. But does not take American vehicles. Trump said, and I quote Ave is one of the people I'm closest with I tell him all the time that Japan doesn't treat the United States fairly on trade. They send in millions of cars at very low tax. They don't take our cars. He also criticised Japan's trade surplus with the US, adding, but don't feel only because you aren't the only one the administration is expected to push Japan for increased market access for automobiles and agriculture when the two governments start negotiations for a bilateral trade agreement in January Trump today. Re Trump Today Japan today readers weren't impressed by Trump's argument, twenty twenty hindsight's rights Japanese by thousands of BMW's and Mercedes. Maybe they just don't like American cars. The fact Japanese don't want to buy American cars is not a Japanese problem. If the US made the cars that people wanna buy they would buy them. I agree whole. Heartedly Mikey likes. It says Japanese are brand loyal, and they liked the made in Japan brand. This makes Merican cars a hard sell. It's not a matter of tariffs, especially as many Japanese cars are built in the US anyway. But of the market American automakers aren't interested in making the cars, the Japanese people will buy they don't see substantial enough returns in building up expensive dealer networks in Japan. They don't have the brand appeal to sell well as an import on the other hand. Joe blow's view was I don't know. What was worse? Trump's attitude toward the Japanese reporter or the Japanese reporters, terrible English. I know lots of Japanese people don't have the best English, but a foreign correspondent being sent to the White House. Come on guys. Okay. Yeah. Probably you should make sure your White House correspondents can communicate effectively regardless of their accent. I guess I can give you that one on the point. Of the cars yet, I got agree with the above commenters. I mean, great big old American cars, not being popular in Japan. Go figure, I mean, have you seen the roads here? What are you folks think let us know on Japan today dot com? Ludd on the tracks. Well, hopefully, not according to our next story. The transport ministry will prohibit passengers from carrying unpack knives onto all trains Japan from next April under new security measures announce this week the ministry said train operators will be able to force passengers off of the trains. Hopefully, hopefully, while these trains are not in motion in case of any violations. How effective this policy will be remains unclear since train operators won't be required to check all baggage. We're talking about carrying of knives here on your person, not those packed away in a bag, and there is no security screening for passengers at the Shinkansen or bullet train stations or any other trains for that matter in Japan. According to the revised version of ministry ordinance that regulates carry on luggage knives. Hatchets saws and scissors are expected to be added to a list of prohibited. Items. Jeez. I kinda thought those things would already be prohibited. But I guess I stand corrected. The ministry has been considering measures to beef up security and trains since a man went on a rampage on June ninth aboard a bullet train bound for shin-osaka station from Tokyo killing one man and injuring two women since then bullet train operators have increased the number of security guards and patrols in trains and started providing instruction for crew on how to respond to emergency situations. The proposed plan does not get much support from Japan today. Readers psycho, fiscal rights bullet trains are extremely safe. I wouldn't wanna see them overly increased security or their budget just to stop one idiot. Every few years when hundreds of millions of people ride, these strains annually. I'll take my chances as they are. I'd hate to see the boarding process. Turn into the mess. We're going through at airports here. Here. Jeff Huffman asks is this all of a sudden, a big prob? Them short of patting everyone down or having them walk through metal detectors, which won't catch the ceramic knives. How do they propose to enforce this? Yeah, I got to agree with the above. I love taking the bullet trains here. And with their efficiency. They're always on time. I would hate to see what happens if they started security screenings, and these trains are safe apart from some isolated incidents. I guess are you fan of machine consent travel here in Japan? Do you like the bullet trains? How safe do you think they are and our security checks warranted? Visit us on Japan today dot com, and let us know. Our next story has a lot of moving parts to it. But really it all boils down to money and where that money comes from this week. Softbank group CEO Masayoshi som- who is one of Japan's richest men found himself in an awkward position when he said that his telecommunications and internet services company must carry out its responsibility to Saudi Arabia. The kingdom of Saudi Arabia has put forty five billion yen into soft bank's one hundred billion yen vision fund, which was launched last year to invest in pioneering technologies and entrepreneurs that kind of money that's about what wait a minute. Hey siri. How much is forty five billion yen in US dollars? Forty five billion. Japanese yen is three hundred ninety five million one hundred twenty five thousand sixty five dollars exerience. However last month the Saudi government admitted that an eighteen men. Hit squad was sent to Turkey to kill Jamal kashogi. A US-based journalist critical of the Saudi state at the Saudi embassy in Istanbul. There've been calls for international sanctions against the oil-rich kingdom, including pressure on SoftBank not to accept Saudi money. Son who has close ties to Saudi Crown prince Mohammad bin Salman and Bs the defacto leader of the kingdom said it is true that horrible incident happened on the other hand, we have a responsibility toward the Saudi people, and we must carry out our responsibility rather than turn our backs on them. Son said there was no indication SoftBank Saudi links are deterring startups from accepting vision funds capital, and there are still plans to raise further funds, though, he emphasized that SoftBank would proceed cautiously and is waiting for the outcome of the kashogi investigation. Well to pan today readers were not so understanding of sun stance. Chris. Piss says if this were one isolated incident, then maybe Mr. Santana tude would be comprehensible. However, the aboard practices of public executions and hangings the street, beatings and public amputations show that there is an ingrain violence perpetrated by the state son is in bed with the devil. Wow. Don't hold back mood adds. It is not investment. It is blood money and not only kashogi. Jeez. It is not an incident, but cold blooded premeditated murder, including the premeditated, cutting of the victim into pieces. It is not carrying out responsibility towards the Saudi people. But making sure that the Saudi people are and continue to be shackled. What it is cold blooded and ruthless profiteering without any regard for human decency. Wow. Will that really sums it up to really good comments there? What I'd like to know are there any soft Bank customers out there listening? What do you think? What do you think should happen with this vision fund? Of soft Bank. Ceo Masayoshi sons, why don't you? Visit the story on Japan today dot com, or send us an Email to podcast at Japan today dot com, and let us know what you think. Okay here. It is. We reached that time in the show time for one of our weird stories of the week in this one a forty nine year old unemployed man has been arrested for abandoning the corpse of his mother at their home in Yokohama. Now, that's weird. But here's where it gets weirder. The suspect is reportedly unable to talk with strangers. And is he kamori? This is a Japanese word that refers to societal and social reclusives and shut ins who rarely leave their homes or even their rooms this particular shut in Moscow. Knock a Moto is an extreme case. He hasn't left his house in forty years. Forty years police said they had to communicate with him in writing. I'm not sure where that comes from. I don't think they lose the ability to speak. But perhaps the mental stability is kind of on the edge. One of these cases knock a Moto is accused of abandoning the body. The of his seventy six year old mother who died of an illness at their home in Commaso award in mid October. Although he didn't really abandon her body like throw it away. This is charge used by police in Japan to arrest. Anyone who doesn't properly report a body? Police said knock Moto wrote that he found his mother's body in the kitchen and moved it to her bedroom. The incident came to light only after not Komodo sister visited their home and discovered their mother's body. Imagine that surprise unannounced visit to your shut in brother and mother, and that's what you find one. Neighbor said he didn't know MRs knock Emoto even had a son. Let's hear from Japan today. Readers, Chico, three rights men. There are sure lots of hermits in this country. Pretty sad. We know a neighbor who is definitely one we've been living in our neighborhood for at least ten years and didn't know a whole family was living next door until apparently their grandmother moved into cared for before that we. Only saw mom coming out to apparently go to work in for groceries Chico three. I don't know if that really counts as Hickey Kamali. I don't think they live in family packs. But yes, there seemed to be a vast amounts of antisocial shut ins here in Japan and from Maria, this is a massive problem in Japan. Parents have been left to be the sole caregivers of their children. When those children are unable to care for themselves. The children grow up become adults reach middle age. The parents grow old elderly infirm, and then what it must be an awful fear for the parent. What will happen to their child when they die. Yes. Well, a little too much hand holding here methinks, my parents, probably would have just kicked out of the house and told me to get a job. But that's me. Well, here's where I ask. What do you think? And encourage you to weigh in on the story on Japan today dot com. Well, we finish this week show with the latest in author Patrick pars Japan yesterday series, which chronicles famous people who visited Japan in the past this time par looks at the nineteen thirty four visit to Japan of legendary American baseball star Babe Ruth after over two decades playing for the Boston Red Sox, and then famously for the New York Yankees Ruth new the game would soon be passing him by a barnstorming trip to Japan with an assembled team of all stars seem to reinvigorate them while Japanese fans truly enjoyed Ruth's larger than life persona the games brought joy and a sense of diplomacy between the two countries with several American reporters writing that the great Bambino had found a way to squelch international tensions as well as enjoying himself with the fans, we learn, however, how Ruth's feelings about Japan changed after the sudden attack on Pearl Harbor on December seventh nineteen forty one Ruth. Took it as an epic sense of betrayal. He threw a Japanese vase out of his eleventh, four New York City apartment window and helped the Red Cross raise funds for soldiers fighting the Japanese overseas, the Bambi beano remained furious Japan throughout the war and the Japanese army soon heard how he was helping the US with the war effort it impacted the Japanese soldiers enough that on March third nineteen forty four during a losing battle in the South Pacific, besides shouting banzai during one last blitz toward American soldiers a few of the infantry also chose to scream to hail with Babe Ruth checkout. This absolutely fascinating. Look at history in Japan. Yesterday section of our website next month. Patrick, par will focus on activist and writer Margaret Sanger's struggle to publicly discuss birth control in Japan in nineteen twenty two. And that was a quick recap of the news from Japan this week for November ninth two thousand eighteen thank you to the Japan today editors for curing all of the stories. And as always thanks to you, all of our listeners readers and commenters out there, you can find links to all of the news mentioned in this podcast in the show notes. See them blow since the news from Japan. Never stops. Follow us on Twitter at at Japan today for all of the breaking stories. Join our Facebook page at forward slash Japan today for more news and comments. And of course, you can. And you should visit the Japan today website at anytime at Japan today dot com, if you have a question or comment about the show or the website. We're always happy to hear from you more than happy to hear from you. Get in touch with us by Email at podcast at Japan today dot com, and we'll try to answer any questions. You have on another episode. You can. Japan this week on Google or apple podcasts and now on Spotify. Or heck you can get us wherever you listen to podcasts, and at whatever podcast store you shop at if you find our show informative or at least entertaining, please leave us a rating or a review on apple or Google podcasts from Japan today. Newsroom at g plus media. In Tokyo, I'm Jeff Richards and join us again next week for quick recap of Japan's biggest and smallest stories sign. Our folks.

Japan Japan US soft Bank Donald J Trump Saudi Arabia reporter Jeff Richards Babe Ruth CEO Saudi government Yokohama baseball Tokyo Saudi embassy Jim Acosta White House Senate
Flynn fallout

Skullduggery

49:47 min | 9 months ago

Flynn fallout

"A Michael ISIKOFF chief correspondent for Yahoo News. And I'm Dan Kleinman editor in chief of Yahoo News and a quick reminder that you can follow us at skulduggery pod and by the way. If you've got any questions thoughts ideas you wanNA share tweet right out us now. Let's get on with the show. Frankford Lucy's served in the FBI for a quarter of a century ultimately winding up as assistant director in charge of counter intelligence in effect the bureau's top spycatcher and like many of his former FBI and department colleagues. He's outraged over attorney. General William Bars decision to drop the criminal charge against Michael Flynn and Fu Glossy believes there could be much more coming from bar as he seeks to permanently discredit the Russia investigation by Robert Muller but at the same time for not a fan of former. Fbi Director James Comey finding much to criticize and how he handled the Russia probe and even the Green Light Comi gave for the interview of when in the first place as we all await judge. Emmet Sullivan will end up doing about. Flynn we'll talk to full Guzzi. About what the F. B? Fbi did right and what it got wrong on this episode of skulduggery because people have gotta know whether or not their president's across well. I'm not a crook. I told the American people I did not trade arms hostile my heart and my best intentions. Still tell me that's true. But the facts and the evidence. Tell me it is not. I did not have sexual relations with that one. There will be no allies. We will honor the American people with the Truth and nothing else. A Michael ISIKOFF chief. Investigative correspondent for Yahoo News. And I'm Jan Kleinman Editor in chief of Yahoo News. So the Flynn case doesn't seem to be going away. Despite the Attorney General's best efforts to Make it do so. We have judge Emmet Sullivan who instead of accepting the Justice Department's motion to drop the charge against Flynn Sullivan. Lengthy order saying he wants to hear from outsiders and meekest briefs other lawyers to weigh in and give him advice on what he should do about the highly unusual decision by William Bar the Attorney General. Yeah that was a signal to a Lotta people that he may want more than just advice in so-called Amaechi briefs. He may actually want to hold a hearing. And for people who allies of my Flynn's they may not happy resting quite as easy right now. I think that's a signal to a lot of people. That judge Sullivan is troubled by the Justice Department's actions here and I still find it perplexing. I was thinking about this and talking to some some Old Justice Department sources of mine and one of the things that people have said to me is look if the Justice Department at the outset had said you know what this is a chicken shit case. We generally don't prosecute people for these kinds of lies to the unless it's part of a much larger investigation. They've got the discretion say. Let's not go after this. We'll do a defensive briefing if their counterintelligence issues involved here but it's just not a case that we need to pursue. But they didn't do that. They pursued it now. Of course it was a change of administrations but still they pursued it once. You've indicted the person once you've gotten guilty pleas Atta him. Then it's very difficult and problematic thing to sort of at the last minute just kind of take it back particularly when this is not something that I mean. I don't think bill bar is reviewing all of the cases out there and try to make decisions about whether prosecutors all drug cases cases and all the other cases the Justice Department brings against not politically. Well connected people. Yeah so what right? Exactly what's different about this case? Well he's a buddy of the president's and by the way this is not a case where the Justice Department where bar came out and said there was some kind of outrageous prosecutorial misconduct. He just said this is a case they shouldn't have brought it. You know and so it just. It looks really bad even if there are some questions about whether they should have brought it in the first place and so. I think this is doesn't look good. I think it's going to hurt. Bill Bar inside the Justice Department. I think it's going to be a wildly unpopular decision. It'll be really interesting. You get the perspective of One question though is like what is what can Judge Sullivan do. He cannot prosecute the case himself. He's a judge he's not a prosecutor. I don't know how much latitude he's got. That's why it'd be interesting to see what these former Watergate prosecutors Submit to the court about what they think he should do. He can hold a hearing he can ask questions he can br. I was there when Flynn went for his sentencing and was grilled by Sullivan. Pretty sharply about whether he stood by whether Flynn's stood by his guilty plea and Flynn did so. Flynn admitted his guilt. Directly to judge Sullivan. And you know I. I think he'll probably have a hard time letting flynn go. Having heard from him. Heard from the defendant saying yes. I was guilty on the other hand. I'm not sure how much latitude he's got the one option that I've heard that seems plausible. Is He could dismiss it with prejudice so that a future Justice Department can bring charges new charges against Flynn or prosecute the existing one whether they'll be an appetite to do so in the next administration whether that's trump administration to or Biden administration one. I don't know but that seems to be the only avenue this can go. Yeah beyond reading out the Attorney General which which ego whatever he ends up doing if there is. A hearing would not be surprised if if he does that. He's has a history of being very tough on the government in that he's kinds of situations and so I I would. I would look for that one way or the other one other case in which bar pops up that we should just mention. Is Our story from last night about the nine eleven case which is quite interesting. This is the lawsuit brought by the families of the victims of September eleventh accusing the Saudi government of complicity in the attacks. The Saudi role has been something you and I were reporting on nearly twenty years ago quite aggressively and here we are nearly two decades later and it is still alive and just to follow the bouncing ball for those who haven't read the story. The families the lawyers for the nine eleven families have been very focused on evidence. They believe will show that there were. Saudi government officials in particular a Saudi embassy official who directed that there be support given to the hijackers that flew into Los Angeles in January two thousand and then were later part of the team that hijacked the American Airlines flight that flew into the Pentagon bar and Richard Grenell. The acting director of national intelligence both filed motions to the court invoking state secrets so all the evidence about the what the F. B. I. Had in its own files about. The Saudi embassy official and others who gave support to those hijackers could not be disclosed bar and Grenell argued it would be a threat to national security and then a FBI assistant director for counterterrorism files a forty page declaration in which in one paragraph she discloses the name of the Saudi embassy official who the FBI who F. B. Agents thought had ordered the tasking to provide support for those hijackers quite a screw up on the FBI is part they have since stricken that document from the public record but it you know once again has raised the issue. What does the government know about what the Saudis were up to in the run up to the nine eleven attacks? Yeah well a couple of things first does to you as a cough for actually reading to like the end of the filing to all those related to read the whole forty pages. I've founded on page seven at the bar. A all right. Well you got through pages. The the live irony here. Is the government going to all these lengths for so long to keep this up under wraps because of the damage it could do to national security and then to be so careless as to actually divulge it themselves in court pleadings. You know it's just like it's pretty rich is it is. It is rich. The other thing is just like this nagging feeling that more than feeling because there's clearly evidence here going on for so many years almost twenty years after nine eleven and we still don't know the full story of the nine eleven conspiracy and whether there was a Saudi government involvement in it. This is something that the nine eleven commission looked at in great detail. They did not come to a conclusion. They didn't say they found evidence but they also said they didn't get cooperation from the Saudis. And you know you. And I reported on L. ME and Almodovar and the fact that they had come. We're living openly in San Diego for many many months before the attacks and that there were these These Saudis. Who are helping them out. And then there was a mysterious third man and that third man was someone who worked in the in the embassy. Look it's far from proving that the Saudi government was in any way involved in the plot itself but still a lot of unanswered questions and a lot that the American government knows that that it has not revealed so one other anecdote which from my reporting which I'd like to share his last September eleventh the families representatives of the families meet at the White House with President trump and they're urging him to release the FBI documents about the Saudis and trump really gets energized when he's told that among those who had been resisting disclosure over the years was Robert Mueller when he was FBI director and James Komi when he was FBI director. Amway trump here's that he says hey Malania because the first lady was there at the time the same scum and dirty cops that have been fighting us have been trying to keep the lid on these documents and then he tells the families. I'm GONNA do everything I can to help you out. Don't worry and as it turns out the next day bar filed his state's secrets motion that basically undercut what the president himself had said. It's just one more insight into the Internal workings of the trump administration and Donald. Trump's mind itself anyway on that note. Let's get to Frank Figliuzzi. Do we now have with us. Frankford Losey the former assistant director of the FBI in charge of counter intelligence. Frank Welcome to skulduggery. Thanks for having me Mike. A lot to talk about here which you have been opining and writing about starting with the Michael Flynn case the Justice Department's extraordinary decision to drop the case against Michael. Flynn last week. The Justice Department filed a motion in court saying the interests of justice would no longer be served by prosecuting. Mike Flynn what did you make of that decision? I first thing I did Mike when this news broke was I read the DOJ filing at least twice. And I've read it several times since then because I wanted to see how this was being spun and let me tell you something. Almost line for line that filing to dismiss charges. It's filled with half truths distortions and the only conclusion that I can come to when I read it is that it's designed to deceive and I think I think judge Sullivan has caught on to that. Which is why we're now seeing him call for Amicus curiae briefs. He's probably going to hold a hearing. Would be my guess and get to the truth. But let me let me you. Just some of the examples of the distortions the biggest one being of course that there was no valid reason to be sitting across from plan as FBI agents and asking him questions bar has said and others repeatedly including a steady drumbeat on Fox News. Every night that they were trying to set a perjury trap that they were trying to get him to lie. And of course the now infamous handwritten notes by someone who actually came after me at the Bureau and headed counterintelligence bill priest up. His handwritten notes are being flown flags. All over right wing fringe conspiracy sites as bombshell evidence that the F. B. I.'S. Interview was designed to get. Flynn to lie. Well let me tell you something. There was a valid counterintelligence case on flint. We could go into as much detail as you like. But those interview strategies notes look like virtually every interview. I've ever been a part of particularly in the counterintelligence where here's what I mean number one if you look at pre steps notes. What's our goal he says in this interview Number One? Get to the truth or get an admission. Yeah no kidding. That's always the goal if you've got target in threats sitting across from you number two the handwritten notes say get him to lie to get prosecuted or fired. Yeah no kidding when you're dealing with a counterintelligence threat you get to try to neutralize that threat. If you don't get the truth you don't get cooperation. You have to mitigate that threat and I know people by flip out and go. Oh my God. You're referring to Michael. Flynn as a counterintelligence yes I am because he was sitting in the chair of the National Security Adviser. It's doesn't get much worse than that. If you are have concerns that have to be resolved. Frank can I stop you there because the one of the issues that was raised certainly in some of the supporting material is that when then director. Comey gave the sign off to go interview. Flynn he didn't coordinate. Or even inform the Justice Department and the Justice Department people at the highest levels. Were quite ticked off about that. They thought that that was a decision that they should have been made and their view at the time was hey. He is the national security adviser. We need to tell the White House about this that this is a White House matter. He's the national security advisor was coney right to do it without coordinating with the Justice Department and was the Justice Department wrong to believe that the first step should have been to go to the White House and inform them about what they knew was on the transcripts of Flynn's call with Kislyak the embassador ultimately we know did in fact go to the White House and let them know that they had a problem on their hands. After the fact that's correct but so I wanna make an important point because you've raised one. I am not a complete total apologist for Jim. Komi and that can be an entire different discussion dating back to his infamous press conference regarding Hillary Clinton. I am aware that he did not fully trust the Department of Justice to do everything correctly. I'm also aware that it is inconsistent of the FBI to head to the White House to do an interview particularly a subject without first getting at least concurrence if not tolerance from the Department of Justice so when you look for things that should raise flags you should be looking at inconsistent behavior and yes you can say that if you were to look at a checklist of things that should be suggested and recommended is. Hey if you're interviewing somebody with counterintelligence concern sitting in the White House you probably should let doj no at the very least so yes. I'm concerned about that but I know enough about Komi that he had concerns that this would not be handled correctly is that is that his decision to make. I mean he's the FBI. Director is not the attorney general and it is a pretty politically sensitive matter to interview a national security advisor at the White House. Does he get to make that call on his own should he? Well he did now. You're more important question as you said it's should he have? And there's a number of behaviors in Komi that in retrospect have really cast the FBI in the worst possible light which is to cast them in a political light so looking back. Komi has done some damage to the FBI's reputation because he politicized the FBI without intending to do so and so we need to look at that but we need to look at it in the totality of circumstances which is to say that he had valid concerns. Inspector General has found this. There were valid concerns to open a valid credit card counterintelligence case against a man who had been in unregistered foreign agent of Turkey had been paid substantial amounts of money to give a speech in Russia where he said at the same table as Putin and more importantly had been captured on tape because of what we do with foreign officials and their conversations have been captured on tape essentially undermining the policy of the existing precedent by bringing up the sanctions issue. So how do you determine whether someone is a suspected threat whether you're suspicious or valid? See If you lie about it. That was a valid approach. I wish Komi had gotten the approval to do so. I'm not sure politically that. He would have been allowed to do so so ironically in an attempt to cut through the politics of DOJ right and bureaucracy there. He ended up politicizing. The bureau. More than ever frank. I want to unpack a couple of things that we've just been talking about and they both go to the fact that this was a counterintelligence case and one is something that might brought up before not just about whether Komi should have gotten approval from DOJ but the underlying issue is whether DOJ been able to go to the White House and essentially give the White House a defensive briefing about Flynn and it kind of relates to what you were talking about before about that in some case in some ways the standard in this case as it kind of perjury case may be different. Because it's a counterintelligence case it was so important to go to. Flynn interview him and get him to lie. If I understood you correctly so explain to our listeners. How being a counterintelligence case makes it different in both of those respects well first of all I think a lot of the public a lack of understanding of the nuances of counter intelligence which is to detect a foreign threats to the nation both internal and external deter those threats and ultimately defeat those threats. So if you have a valid case open valid concerns and a man is literally now sitting in the White House steps away from the president of the United States. You've got to detect whether or not there's a threat there and you can see now all of the conspiracy theories coming out right the all of this stuff you here on Fox News and the president has re tweeted this federalist article that says holy cow the FBI and the Intel community had briefed Obama and Biden and here was Susan Rice. And here's clapper and maybe John Brennan and an Obama told them to go forward and let's go after when no actually what what transpired there is that there was a briefing to Obama during the transition where they said we're really concerned about this guy. Flynn and we're about to engage in classified transition briefings with this team. Here's what we've got on the whole picture and Obama said you know let's get it resolved. He asked the question. How much can we trust them in the transition? Briefings so in that context. You've got gotta get this done. You've got to get this done quickly. Flynn rises finally into the White House. Now we're into January. They finally discover that he's on tape and they say it's time it's time to pull his trigger and get this done so. The goal of counterintelligence is not always prosecution in fact that doesn't happen in ninety nine percent of counterintelligence case rather you are mitigating or deterring and defeating the threat. But then why not go make your first move a defensive briefing at the White House of that works just fine if you trust everybody. Who's in the White House? But when you've got a larger. Let's let's understand what was going on at this time. You've got crossfire. Hurricane opened you've got concerns against a number of people including the campaign chairman. Paul Manafort you've got concerns about. Julian assange and wikileaks and the Russians and Roger Stone and on and on and on. And you're wondering who the hell can we actually brief and trust at this point but at the end of the end of the day the president is in charge of the US government? He's just been elected the F. B. Ultimately works for him. If you have a counter intelligence concern. Don't you have to take it to the very top of the government and if you don't then who's in charge who's making the decision the FBI director. There's no excellent discussion points. And there's no rule book for this. There's there's nothing in the FBI Manual. That says if you think the president is compromised and the team around him please do the following. It's not there what I would default to based on how I conduct myself is I would go with the most consistent protocols and policies that we could possibly adhered to to avoid every appearance of politicization. But there's another factor here and it's the Komi personality factor which is don't forget where Komi came from he was previously the US attorney in the Southern District New York are arguably the most powerful US attorney's office in the nation number two. He becomes the deputy attorney general of the United States. He's essentially running the Department of Justice and over directly or seeing the daily operations of the FBI. Okay he now in a sense. I hate to say it this way but he gets demoted really to FBI director and so he seems to fail to understand that he's accountable to bosses at DOJ. He's he's worn those powerful hats before and he seems unable to take those hats off so he pulls triggers that most FBI directors wouldn't think of polling and I view that in in that context. I have a couple of QUESTIONS ABOUT FBI. Procedures here and this really in some ways does go to the heart of this case now. There's no question Michael. Flynn pled guilty. He did so twice the second time in front of the federal judge Judge Sullivan so it seems reasonable to accept what he has sworn to that. He lied on the other hand. We haven't seen the transcript of his conversation with the Russian Ambassador. Kislyak where he is alleged to have told him do not respond to the sanctions imposed by president. Obama will revisit that once we take office in a couple of weeks. But we also haven't seen a transcript of the FBI interview of Flynn. Because you don't do you don't tape them. It's all handwritten notes and I just WANNA throw one thing out at you before I close this question when we journalists do sensitive interviews with important subjects. We tend to tape them because we want to get it exactly right the FBI which can send somebody to jail for lying. Doesn't take those interviews. Why not okay. We'll take that in reverse order. Let's do the tape issue because it's come up throughout my career the bureau later and it's evolved but not not so much on the counterintelligence side. Let's talk about the criminal side now. The current policy now. At least when I left the bureau was that they had gotten to the point where they said you know. What when you're when you're looking at it. A criminal confession to the following crimes included homicide it included Sexual assault of a child and everything was going to hinge on that. Very Serious Felony Confession. You could indeed tape the interview and in fact the US attorney could also weigh in. And Say I want this interview? Taped storage safely the FBI been hesitant to do that. Because our interview techniques would be subject to discovery would be subject to exposure to the bad guys. I'm very biased. I happen to think that we are the best interviews in law enforcement and intelligence. We get confessions much of the time. And it's because of the way we it's everything from report building to winding a narrative that presses the right buttons on the subject and we simply didn't want that out it's evolved now to the point. Where if you've got particularly a homicide sexual assault of child you think you have limited circumstances to for this guy to be around and cooperate you absolutely can take let. Let's move to counter intelligence counterintelligence even more sensitive about what we might disclose to a subject that might ultimately get out in court and create issues the methods and techniques of get again. Look how the public has reacted to just the notes of planning the interview. Look look at what what this is. What's happened with just a note? That says get him to LIE TO GET HIM. Fire again prosecute. Yeah and of course those of us who worked these these cases go? Yeah absolutely. That's that's the goal. Yeah new choice threat and and imagine l. All of that getting on tape where you're trying to trip the guy up and make sure even even after you've told them. Hey Mike. You're remember that we do tape foreign officials. You know that right. Oh yeah all right and still lies to you. So look the bureau's moving in the right direction with regard to taping. It's become fairly common now on the criminal side. It's not there on counterintelligence I get that the reason this is relevant to this case in particular is if you look through all the material that was disclosed last week in included. Comas closed door briefing to the House. Intelligence Committee in which he's asked about the interview of Flynn and whether or not the F. B. I. Believed this was in March of two thousand seventeen so long before. He's pled whether Flynn had lied. And what Komi says in there is it was. This is his words a close call and when I saw that I said Oh my God you know if I'm the defense lawyer for Flynn and this case where to go to trial and the government is saying. The evidence is overwhelming. It's beyond a reasonable doubt. There's no transcript so we're just taking the prosecutors word for it. I call the FBI director as a As a witnessing you said this was a close call. You didn't think this was beyond a reasonable doubt. Yes some of this goes toward a two things one is materiality call so that's the thing is about close call could also be. Komi wearing the lawyer had going. Well you know I I. He hedged he had to go to substantive materiality and I WANNA talk about materiality in a minute but also the agents came back allegedly and said yeah. We're seemed seem pretty straightforward with us. That goes toward when an agent says that. That goes toward demeanor. And this will be calling of deceptiveness right. So he's he's not sweating. He's not looking at the floor. He's not got his arms folded right and that goes toward whether he's he's comfortable in his life or comfortable with what he's telling you and it also goes toward lastly if you've got something that's on the line and your goal is neutralization of potential threat. Then you cross that line and go. Yeah it's on the line you know what we're gonNA air on the side of caution in neutralizing threat and we're going to seek prosecution and prosecutors ultimately did and most importantly Mike. Flynn admitted it and plead guilty in court. I want to go back to quickly to the tape issue. Imagine imagine this in a sensitive counterintelligence case where you're doing an interview and there there's a bit of a pretext Mike and by the way shock of all shocks the FBI conducts. Many pretexts interviews. All Day what do I mean by pretext? Hey We're you think we're here for this but we're really here for something else and I know that the right wing is flipping out over this. But if you've watched any law and order episodes you know this happens all the time and so imagine plopping a tape recorder down in that environment and saying hey sir you don't mind if we take this interview about talking about the weather do you. And of course that has a chilling effect. And of course. You're not going to be able to do what you need to do in that interview tape recorders the five hundred pound gorilla in in a room. If you bring it in Frank I wanNA step back a little bit and talk about what this Flynn case tells you about where we may be going. And you wrote a provocative piece on the NBC News Site About Signs. Coming out of the White House. Mostly in the form of trump's tweets but also some of his allies also suggesting that the president and the Attorney General Bill Bar are sort of laying the groundwork to come after the president's enemies starting with Barack Obama John Brennan James Clapper. Jim Komi Susan Rice and you talk about the possibility that they would censor them or even criminally charged them. So I want to ask you. What is your basis for that? I think the term. You use is predictive analysis. Talk about that why you think that. That's where things may be headed. Well it's funny because when I started drafting that article. I was realizing that a bit of a stretch to get into predictive analysis. You know and people are going to say. Well you're really you're really moving forward prematurely and then as I finished drafting the by the way this happened in a matter like twenty four forty hours. Guess what you didn't need to be clairvoyant. Played started playing out. It's still playing out today. What do I mean by that? Well it started with. Of course the request of dismiss Flynn but then we see the President. Doing things like explaining to the press. Hey I just had a phone call with Putin and even though the White House summary of the call those and say this I actually talked with him about the Russia hoax. And by the way a lot of things might happen quote unquote. A lot of things might happen. It's all coming out now it's a hoax okay and you. You had to kind of conversation with Vladimir Putin Okay and then over the weekend the president re tweets a number of Fox News and the federalist articles all saying in one form or another that Obama Biden at all orchestrated the case against Flynn and ultimately the Russia case and quote unquote. More is coming. And then let's go back to Torney General Bar. Who's already said that? In his opinion the Russia investigation was designed to sabotage the trump campaign and the trump presidency. He's got John Durham. Us Attorney Connecticut working on all of this. And then we see infamous that rich grinnell. The acting deny walking with great fanfare walking into the front door of the Department of Justice with a Satchel in his hand. And what has he done? He is unmasking the names of the people who requested to know who was talking to Kislyak on tape about undermining the foreign policy of. He's unmasked the Unmask Irs. He's unmasked the Unmask Ours. So look the president continues even at a press conference in the Rose Garden the president just the other day when asked. What are you accusing Obama of? He says Obama Gate and then fill. It was Phil Rucker. And then Phil Rucker says. What's the crime? Oh you know what the crime is so. I've gone from like doing predictive analysis to buy God. It's happening right in front of our eyes. So we're the question now is to. What extent does this go and here? Here's what here's what's going to happen. You're going to see this play out almost right up to the election. They're going to pull out a Durham report or Innuendo or even worse implying that the Russia case not only should not have happened with at all of its dozens of indictments are now somehow invalid. Maybe worst case scenario maybe even the indictments of twenty six Russians. Who by all accounts messed with our election tried to there is going to be an implication that yeah. Those things are tainted fruit of the poisonous tree. The whole thing should never up and you'll see president trump try to remove sanctions. And we're going to see the rule of law completely trampled. I gotta say Frank. I think the idea that they could drop. The charges against the Russians seems a bit Bridge too far. I think even for Bill Bar on this one. I mean the conclusion that the Russians hacked the DNC and the pedestrian emails was it's the US intelligence community that unanimously found that the FBI. The Muller report the House Intelligence Committee under Devon Nunez concluded that the Senate Intelligence Committee under Richard. Burr concluded that so I find it hard to believe they would go that far. You wrote in that same piece About bar that. He's ignored the findings of his own inspector general. And I think that refers to that. Part of the Horowitz report that said that the initial investigation was adequately predicated course. That report also found many failings by the FBI. Serious ones in the handling of the Carter Page and then you point out bar appointed a handpicked. Us Attorney to dry to try and develop a vast conspiracy theory now. John Durham is a career prosecutor. He was handpicked by Eric Holder. To conduct the Torture investigation for the Obama. Justice Department. Do you have any reason to believe that John Durham is and unethical prosecutor? Who would prostitute his his principles in order. Deliver a politically charged. Report that William Bar can used to satisfy the president negative. I worked for John. Durham before I even came into the FBI. I worked for him as a young intern on the Organized Crime Strike Force in New Haven Connecticut. He is a straight up solid prosecutor. He also worked by the Whitey. Bulger mess with corrupt the agent and FBI. Boston so he's a serious guy and He's got a good series team around him. I don't worry about John. Durham I worry about William Bar. Because he's shown us who he is so he could take in I G REPORT. He can take a special counsel report he can sham it up and spin it with a four page. Summary announce a press conference before it's ever released to shape public opinion. And when he's interviewed now and asked about Durham. And he's asked questions. Like is Durham. Ever going to see a report and he says. I don't know we'll see at gets me very worried. Meaning I don't want to see anything in writing from Durham. I want to do it myself. So that's where I'm worried. Take take a solid guy with integrity and then twists contorts. What is said? Frank what do you think the toll of all of this is on just kind of average you know brick agents in the bureau. I mean buddy of the president. Who's pleaded guilty? You know not once but twice cases pulled back at you know at the last minute some of the comments that trump obviously has been making about the the FBI and the deep state is the FBI kind of a reflection of the divisions and the kind of dueling narratives that we've got going on more generally or is this having a real impact on morale bureau. What your former colleagues say and about all of that. So the MOVE TO DISMISS THE FLYNN. Charges has has if there's anything positive and there's very little that's come out of this. Flynn move by. Bart's is that it's caused me to catch up with some guys and Gals from the Bureau that I haven't talked to in a while and to a person they are dismayed by the notion that a person can lie to the bureau plead guilty to it and get off is disturbed every single person I've talked with and by the way DOJ similarly morale being impacted very negatively and so it really people are worried not only about that instant case but they're worried about what what tells for the future imagine across the nation prosecutors having to deal with prosecutions of what they call title eighteen thousand one thousand and one which is lying to federal agents. Imagine every defense attorney out filing motions going wasn't material. They tripped him up. They made them lie. This is going to. This is going to come back to bite people for years. But there's another thing going on which is particularly among those who have had most of their time in the bureau in the field this is exacerbated the the US versus them empty suits versus field agent. Mentality which is when the headquarters gets involved in a case it gets messed up and by the way. I've spent a lot of time at headquarters and I agree. I Agree. And it's back to that inconsistency thing that we talked about. Mike when I had this happened in my career where I talked to seven four out of actually doing an interview themselves I was like no no no and and you know I got I got stairs. Like WITH DAGGERS. And I said no. No no these to field agents over here. They've got to do this interview. You know climate and I have been Listening to FBI agents grumble about headquarters for decades now. And of course I do. There's a buy on either. 'cause THE GUY. I remember being most vocal about it at first was Louis Freeh. When he first came in talking about how street agents should be calling the shots not headquarters. Oh yes director. Yeah he he was telling the street agents what to do who to who to go after who the targets. So Yeah infamously. He did it himself when it came to Richard Jewel. The Richard Jewel case exactly. That was a disaster. I was at headquarters when Louis. Freeh came in and announced that he was emptying headquarters. There's too many people here. And you know I went to new headquarters to get impacted but the guys that had been headquarters for a while. They all ended up going to the field and that was hysterical to watch but slowly but surely a knee-jerk reaction slowly but surely free realized that we re staff headquarters. There's actually no program management going on so and then as you pointed out in the horrible Richard jewell example. He was literally on the phone calling the shots of that interview and went and it went terribly terribly wrong and made the wrong. The wrong calls. Hey wanted to just switch gears. Up here Frank We had a story last night. About how the. Fbi Director of counter-terrorism filed a declaration in the nine eleven case the lawsuit brought by the families of the victims of September eleventh against the Saudi government in which the declaration accidentally disclosed the name of a Saudi embassy official who agents believed had tasked others to support two of the hijackers who flew into the country on January twenty and later were on the plane the American Airlines flight that crashed into the Pentagon the FBI after we contacted them or the Justice Department withdrew that declaration because the Attorney General and the acting deny Richard Grenell had filed motions saying that all the information relating to this. Follow up investigation on nine eleven. It was called operation encore was looking specifically potential Saudi links to the nine eleven plotters bar in Grinnell declared all of that state secrets saying it would pose. Grave damage to national security for was ever disclosed. You were head of counter intelligence. Well after nine eleven you no doubt had the Saudis on your radar screen. What is your sense of whether we know everything we need to know about the nine eleven case and the possibility of Saudi links. Well I don't. I don't think the public has had the benefit of understanding the full linkages there and even within the intelligence community. This is extremely compartment information. So let me speak just very generally. The Saudi government is a force to be reckoned with regard to their linkages to radical violent extremism their funding of operations within the United States to include radical Muslim clerics. That's been it's been established and that is public information their funding of Madris's or Muslim schools and even clerics that expound radicalism and extremism has been well documented. Are they getting better at it yes. Is it a constant welcome? A mole approach yes with regard to their intelligence service. They are stone cold killers. Anyone need look at the death of journalists the Washington Post journalist Kashogi to see what they're capable of and so to think that they did not play some knowing role or at least some indirect role in nine eleven. I think would be naievety and the fact that that names been accidentally disclosed. Saudi official in this lawsuit doesn't surprise me. The accident concerns me. I can already hear the deep state conspiracy lunatic saying that here goes here. Goes the FBI trying to mess with trump's relationship with Saudi? They did this deliberately. But I can tell you this if there's evidence of Saudi official involvement under a normal administration which we are far from right. Now you would. Of course see legal action taken against this official if the evidence was there. What you're saying. Frank is that the American people still don't know what really happened. The entirety of that plot know the most deadly terrorist attack on the United States and there are still really big questions out there about whether our ally Saudi Arabia had some hidden role in that plot. I think it's safe to say that. There are unresolved and undisclosed factors touching on Saudi government knowledge and or involvement in in or with the nine eleven hijackers. Plotters a story climate. And I broke back in two thousand two. Was that the CIA knew about these two hijackers. Al-mehdar and I'll me. They monitor them at the qual. Poor al-Qaeda planning summit and they knew that they had flown into the country into the United States and never informed the FBI. One theory about all this is that the CIA didn't want the bureau mucking around on a case that they still hope somehow to do on their own that maybe they were GonNa try to track these guys turn them and that they might have asked the Saudis to keep an eye on them. And that's why we have the information about multiple contacts between people related to the Saudi embassy in the Saudi government communicating with these hijackers. Do you give credence to that theory. So I so I was. I'm with you all the way until by with you I mean I. I'm fully aware of all of these issues. And they were deeply explored with in the nine eleven commission. And we can talk about that in a second but the until the last part of your sentence which was which I've never heard before which is that. They had perhaps asked the Saudis to to keep track of these guys in the US. I that that's news to me not heard that one before. And it is a theory by the way. Richard Clarke has given some credence to the theory. But go ahead the earlier part of the theory. Some of it has been corroborated. I mean the fact the fact that they knew they were here at least those two guys. But let's let's we can talk a little bit about this desire to not tell bureau you you're aware that the commission ultimately found that it was the ages claim that they did provide these names and the concerns to the FBI at a fairly low level and that poor FBI agent now retired who they claim to have given it to has testified ad nauseam on this issue. And you know you you can. You can look at this if it hearkens back to let me. Try to draw an analogy. I you know the story of of the FBI trying to tell the Democrats that they're their campaign headquarters got hacked into by the Russians right. Some great fourteen supervisor at headquarters kept calling the it guy at DNC headquarters and save big problem big problem and the guy looked at it and I don't see any Russians and this went on and on like five times before it went. You also didn't even believe it was an FBI agent at first a holster. It's kind of like that. It's the what the CIA says. Hey we told Joe aged over here that these two guys were a problem. Right and JOE AGENT GETS INTERVIEWED AND. Goes I think they? They gave me those two names. I think I pass the ball right. It wasn't director to director pounding on the desk. There's two stowed called terrorists the United States. Now that didn't happen. Well only a reminder that these stories linger on for years here we are twenty almost twenty years later still talking about this which is probably a good sign that twenty years from now. We'll still be talking about the Russian investigation as well in which case we will want to have you back on skulduggery frank. It won't take twenty years before we have you back. Worry I it's been a. It's been a good conversation guys. Stay well be healthy youtube. Thanks a lot really appreciate it. Thanks to former assistant director for counterintelligence at the FBI Frank Figliuzzi for joining us on skulduggery. Don't forget to subscribe to skulduggery on Apple. Podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. And tell us what you think. Leave a review. We should follow us on social media and skulduggery pot. We'll talk to you soon.

FBI Michael Flynn Justice Department director president United States White House attorney Obama Frank Figliuzzi Department of Justice Emmet Sullivan James Komi Saudi government assistant director trump Saudi embassy Bill Bar Russia Us Attorney
Murder, Inc.

Skullduggery

1:00:04 hr | 2 years ago

Murder, Inc.

"Here's a new global trend that you might not have picked up on in February two thousand seventeen. The estranged half-brother of North Korea's. Dictator is waiting for a flight at the airport in Kuala Lumpur Malaysia when two female assassins brave VX nerve agent on his face, causing him into feel dizzy, collapse and die before the ambulance carrying him can make it to a nearby hospital. Then in March, two thousand eighteen to Russian operatives attempt to assassinate a defector Sergei scruple in Salisbury England by exposing him to a military grade chemical agent, known as Nova jock and this month, dissident Saudi journalist, Jamal kashogi enters the Saudi consulate in Istanbul and never leaves amid reports that he was brutally murdered his body and fingers dismembered by a team of assassins dispatched from Riyadh. What do these cases have in common all three victims were political exiles, living abroad and murdered by age. Agents of the despotic regimes, they fled is this the new normal, the preferred way for Thawra -tarian governments to deal with pesky dissidents in the twenty first century. One other common denominator worth mentioning the regimes of all three countries that carried out these murders a run by leaders for whom President Trump has had kind words North Korea's, Kim Jong on Russia's Vladimir Putin and Saudi Arabia's crown prince Mohammad bin Salman as we sort out the latest murky news on the kashogi case will discuss the new wave of twenty-first-century state-sponsored assassinations on today's skulduggery. There is absolutely no collusion. I didn't make a phone goal, the Russia. I have nothing to do with Russia. Everybody knows it because people have got to know whether or not their president's across, but I'm not a crook. I told the American people. I did not trade arms for constitutes my heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true. But the facts and the evidence, tell me it is not. I did not have sexual relations with that woman. The British government has learned the Saddam Hussein recently saw significant quantities of uranium from Africa when he times to answer this question and you just. Shit rooms. I'm Michael Isikoff chief investigative correspondent for Yahoo news and I'm Dan Kleinman editor in chief of Yahoo news. You know, Danny, when we used to be at Newsweek, we worked for a magazine that prided itself on capturing trends before anybody else did and putting him on the cover. I suspect this would be our cover for Newsweek if we were still there the new normal on political assassinations. Yep, Evan Thomas writing, writing it with as much detail as possible. And I will say, you mentioned three assassinations. I always said it takes three for trend. It look. It used to be that carrying out a state, sponsored murder on foreign soil was one of these red lines that nation states, you know, rarely if ever crossed and it doesn't look like that's the case anymore. And you got to ask the question which our guest last week. Jamaica show us good friend did whether these despots feel, you know, increasingly like they can act with impunity in part because Donald Trump has, you know, he's got this kind of devil-may-care attitude about these kinds of things right now. It's worth mentioning. Of course, this didn't begin under Donald Trump's watch when could go back to two thousand six when Alexander lifting Yanko is poisoned to death in London by Russian agents. But the fact is that the United Kingdom did not re or nor did anybody in the west respond particularly forcefully to the assassination of lifting Yanko at that time, and that may well have a sent a strong signal to Putin and others around the world that you could get away with this. But there's clearly bitter and other hic. That's what's. Differences. I mean, there are differences between between those cases and and this one, and I, I really think that it's a combination of the grisly nature of this. You know, still suspected not proven crime, but it's looking more and more like it was a murder and how it spilled out into the open. And that's kind of shocked the conscience of of the civilized world. And one of the kind of more ghoulish details that came out this week was from this audio that that the Turks say, they have of what actually happened in that consulate. And you know, it's, it's that this Saudi forensic doctor who was allegedly part of this fifteen man, Saudi assassination team. You know, at one point he says to his fellow hit squad members that they ought to listen to music. He says this while donning his own headphones while doing. Doing their work to sort of ease the tension while while dismembering you know, their victims body and it to me is sort of reminiscent of that line from Hannah Arendt Eichmann in Jerusalem, the banality of evil. There's something about that juxtaposition of what they were doing allegedly doing and you know, listening to music that is just kinda horrifying. And one other detail is the Saudi console who admonishes the hit squad, please don't do this in my presence. Can you take him outside, which was yeah, right? It's not like he obviously he's not having any pangs of conscience. If each has doesn't want to be associated with could get me into some trouble if you do this here, and it's worth mentioning that console has since left is STAN and is unavailable for questioning by at least the. Urkish investigators, but look, the larger point here is. Everybody now is watching how the White House is going to respond to this. The visual of secretary of state Pompeo flying to Riyadh meeting with m. b. s. Mohammed bin Salman the crown prince smiling seeming like he was going to the most routine of diplomatic visits when in fact, he's supposedly there to get to the bottom of a grisly murder was quite destroying to watch. So the question is is if all the signs point to this being a state sponsored assassination ordered from the very top of the Saudi regime is President Trump and the Trump administration going to respond sharply and we'll, it will this affect our relations with Saudi Arabia, and the fact is we don't really know the answer to that question right now. Yeah. No. I mean. There's a, there was a small indication today that maybe the Trump administration is beginning to kind of get the message here secretary Mnuchin the Treasury Secretary today. When we recorded this podcast announced that he would not be going to the Saudi investor conference in Riyadh. Lot of kind of high level business people and media companies withdrew from the conference in because how awkward the whole thing is, and and he took a long time to make that decision. And my guess is his boss, Donald Trump didn't want him to pull out. But finally, the pressure was too great and they and they did. So we'll see what that means in in terms of what they're open, it responsibly, but it's a small sign that they're, they recognize how awkward since speaking of awkward, I should mention that that invite I got the which I mentioned last week's. Unless weeks episode to the Saudi national day celebration at the Saudi embassy which was supposed to be the day to the day. We're recording this October eighteenth has been cancelled. The invitation had come from the Saudi ambassador by the way, the younger brother of the crown prince, but apparently he's flown back to Riyadh as well. So I will not have the opportunity to enter the Saudi embassy and get to the bottom of what the Saudis are up to not in a partying mood, not in a party mood, but we do have somebody who is been following this story as closely as anybody is a really plugged in reporter, Shane Harris of the Washington Post coming on. So let's let's listen to his insights on this Shane Harris. Welcome to skulduggery. Thank you. I am so Pacific fan of this podcast. I'm so glad to be here. Well, we are honored that you could join us. So you wrote that the Trump administration and the Saudis are trying to come up with a way to explain the death of kashogi without implicating crown prince Mohammad bin Salman, how they're going to do that. That's going to be a great trick to pull off because so much circumstantial evidence from US intelligence reporting to analysis on social media, to passport records and other things that are pointing towards Mohammed bin soman being. If not the one who ordered this operation than being somebody who is definitely aware of it and certainly wanted to get your mouth kashogi to lay hands on him into detain him. So it's going to be a real trick to somehow say that Mohammed bin soman didn't know anything about this, particularly since if you talked to people who know how he works and how the Saudi government works. He's a micromanager. I mean, he is somebody who has his hands very. I firmly on the wheel when it comes to implementing all these reform policies overseeing the government. The idea that a group of rogue actors fifteen people in into government, planes in different groups, go to stumble to pull off an operation like this, and he's completely blindsided. It just, you know, it seems so implausible to the experts the and the officials we've talked to so and Shane, the the, I mean, having covered the Middle East, the the one area of the government that Arab leaders tend to have, you know, micromanage the most is there is there into intelligence apparatus. So there's that and then there's some other first of all. So I gathered the story. We'll be there trying to make a distinction between detaining and maybe you know, executing written dish in bringing bringing show you back to Saudi Arabia, torturing, interrogating all of that. And actually murdering you're. Because you're there signals at. That's maybe whereas heading, you know that they distort you might be. I think the New York Times even s and reporting on this this afternoon on Thursday afternoon when we're talking that you might be well, he was meant to be interrogated, but things went too far. Now, of course, do you always bring a bone saw a forensic pathologist to an interrogation like that's that's a new one. Being a professional interrogation. I don't know, but I don't recall seeing bone saws in enhanced interrogation techniques that the CIA was carrying. We didn't. That's right. But you know, Dan, I think you're you're putting it is that there might be some sort of story about an operation gone wrong, which then might sort of try and be in the middle of Muhammed. Vince Oman knew nothing versus he ordered the plan. Something in the middle might be a little more credible, but there to the problem is going to be well, we know them Hama been so on based on US intelligence, intercepts that of Saudi officials wanted to get your Malka Shoghi back to Saudi Arabia and detain him. And there appear to be other efforts by some of his allies try and actually do that by talking to Jamal alluring him back from Virginia. So on the one hand, you could say, well, he knew nothing about this plot to go out and get him at at the consulate, or he didn't think it was gonna go this far, but he was very clearly according to the intelligence that we've been briefed on trying to get kashogi back and this was something he'd been doing for some time. So I suppose you could say, well, let's pretend that they say, well, they didn't NBS didn't know the. Tara Gatien was going to turn into a killing. The point is though he still set in motion efforts months ago to get this guy back and doesn't eat bear responsibility for his fate in case, why would they have gone to these lanes? I can understand trying to get him back. He's writing stuff in the Washington Post. That's extremely awkward. That's critical. And you know, getting him back, interrogating him, you could have interrogated him back in Riyadh. They didn't have to do it at the consulate. I, it's still baffling as to why they would have gone to these lanes in STAN bowl or gone to these lines at all right. And that's the way I think to that point, why the idea that it's an interrogation gone, Ron doesn't hold up. You send fifteen people onto planes to interrogate a guy that doesn't make any sense. The bigger question is like Jamal kashogi? Why was he such a threat to the Saudi government that they wanted to to silence him in this way? I think you guys have cast a couple of. Days ago talking about, you know that Jamal was an insider, but also wasn't a bomb thrower. He wasn't advocating for a regime change or trying to plot a coup against Mohammed bin Salman. So why go to these extraordinary lengths at all? Like why did NBC him such as this threat? We'll we'll. Yeah, I was gonna follow up on that, and just want just ask you in the course of all of this great reporting that you've done. What have you learned about NBS that would provide some clues to that or or is it just a mystery? Well, now here I'm gonna put my psychologist hat on maybe a little bit, but you know, what would the CIA profiler is saying, I guess, yeah. The profile of MB s would be the following, which is very at odds with, you know, the picture you would get from watching him on sixty minutes, which is that he is hugely ambitious. He is ruthless. He is if not naive, he is perhaps reckless and he is a send it at a very young age up the chain of command to become. The era parent in a very fast aggressive way that is neutralized many people who are more senior than him, including people who were very close to the intelligence establishment in the United States. So he's not dumb. I mean, he is highly effective, but the CIA officials who, and other intelligence officials who've I've talked about him over the past couple of years, really see him as somebody who is not really in control. I mean, he's he, it seems it seems like he's he's impulsive and a bit of a hot head. And actually the the analogy I think about from Hollywood is the godfather, but the dawn would not, you know, he, he, he appointed Michael to be his successor and not sunny, who was the hothead and who was impulsive and who was emotional. Yeah, that's a good analogy. And we lacked at the end of the first godfather so much of an option. Yeah, NBS is is not Michael, right? I mean, they the the profiler would agree with you on that, and he's also somebody you know of, you know. Extravagant tastes. I mean, he bought the, you know, the world's most expensive yacht. He bought through a cutout, the world's most expensive painting at auction. And at the same time he's pushing this, you know, anti-corruption campaign and locking all these corrupt people up in the Ritz Carlton and shaking them down for billions of dollars. There's always another side to the coin. There's the, you know, I'm promoting policies that are allowing women to drive. But at the same time, I'm locking up people. The women who were actually pushing that effort because they threaten me any also kidnapped the the president of Lebanon. Very, which was a bizarre move. Yeah, and I think that sending to with that, I, if you're getting more looking at the profile, they're looking at things he's actually done right, and there are so many extrordinary reckless things from the Americans be really from probably many people's points. End countries points of view that point to this is somebody who is thinking their view, not prepared for the enormous responsibility that he now finds himself in as the air apparent and effectively running a country. I mean, there's I think fairly strong indications that king soman is perhaps not exactly the most kind of out of within of kings right now. So MB s. is for all intents and purposes is running Saudi Arabia and yet I mean, the Trump White House has banked a lot on m. b. s. on so many levels. I mean, we all talk about Jared Kushner's relationship with them trying to bring them along on the Mideast peace plan. But more centrally, I mean, the the. The principal focus of Trump foreign policy in the Mideast has been to stigmatize Iran, Saudi Arabia is Iran's mortal enemy. They have done everything to beef up Saudi Arabia's. Solidify ties with Saudi Arabia was the swear President Trump went on his very first visit. And this assassination, if that's what it is, which it certainly looks like is quite awkward development that gets in the way of what the Trump White House wants to do in terms of going after Iran. Absolutely. I mean, I think that it's not too much to say that the White House has outsourced much of its foreign policy in the Middle East to Saudi Arabia and to Mohammed bin soman. And Jerry Kushner manages that relationship, and he is the one who has gone around the administration. Another young, upstart prince with a lot of experience in statecraft and tried to convince veteran Nash. Security and foreign policy people in the establishment that Mohammed bin some honest, someone they can trust and we've already talked about what their view of this is. I remember when I first started really paying attention to to Muhammad. It was I was talking with a senior US intelligence official who said the thing you have to know about NBA says he has this elevator speech where he talks about everything in the region being Iran's fault. Everything runs through Iran and of course it's a very Saudi Centric view. But the fear was that when the new administration came in already hostile to Iran, that simplistic kind of, you know, bullet point, elevator pitch was going to resonate with Jared Kushner, and with the Trump people and it seems like it did because they're saying, yeah, exactly. That's what we're looking at. He's got it. He knows what he's talking about. Let's go with him, but there's another side to this Shane, which is that's the kind of geopolitical side and and how you know the Saudis fit into the whole Iran equation. But for Trump, it's also just purely kind of transactional. And he sees sees all of this through a lens of deals and money. And you know, he's, it sounds like he's obsessed with it or what would happen to the hundred billion dollars in arms deals. And what happens if the Saudis turn off the the oil spigot and you know, which obviously is a would be a serious concern. But I mean, I don't know how much he's thinking about geopolitics and how much he's thinking about, like, you know, we still got a lot of money we can make out of this this this PD bay. Yeah. When you hear him talking about the reasons why you know we need to maintain the relationship. He doesn't speak about it in terms of statecraft. He speaks about it in terms more of commerce. I think the prisoner may actually believe that one hundred twenty billion dollars could just be kind of sucked out of the GDP immediately. I'm not sure he understands the way these contracts are structured. These are multi arrangements. You know, they're not buying one hundred twenty billion dollars in a shopping cart at one time, but you know, Dan, you're right. I mean, he sees it through that kind of a lens into be Frank given how the president is talk. About the press in this country. I'm not so sure that he's seeing the case of Jamaica Shoghi as an assault on the free press or freedom of expression. I think this is more a disruption in the kind of, you know, the deal making that he likes to do. And frankly, I think that his son in law is exercising, tremendous influence over him on this. And I, I think from what we understand behind the scenes, Jared has constantly throughout this crisis been saying, we cannot abandon mom had been some on. Yeah, he's still, he's still helping to craft the response. And he's, you know, as far as we know, he's probably still texting NBS on their encrypted. What's? But I, I wanted to ask you Shane, and this goes to, you know what the Trump administration's. You know response is going to be able to me and how much pressure they're under right now. One of the things that I thought was interesting about your piece, your latest piece in in in the paper and the post was you. Had there were a couple of quotes from Rudy Giuliani, who of course is Trump's kind of staunchest defender on on cable news and he, you know, we, you know, did not make it sound like they were gonna necessarily get out of this, this this fix all that easily. I think if got, I was thumbing for the only question is, was it directed from the crown prince or the king? Or was it a group that was trying to please him? Yeah, leave it to Rudy to tell man. Why did you call routing in the first place on this actually credit to migrate colleague? Carolina was actually talking about some other things. What do you think about the show. But you know what he also said. In addition to that, that quote is within the White House, people are decided basically more than a week ago. The Saudis did this. I mean, there's no real as Rudy's telling it. I think this tracks with other reporting we've done. It's not as if you know many officials in the White House are sitting there going, gosh, maybe the Saudis didn't do this. I mean, everyone understands what the score is, and I think is he put it simply the only question maybe in their mind is to what degree was Mohammed bin soman responsible for this? Let me ask you about the Turks because look all the grisly details about what happened to kashogi have come from leaks from the Turks from audio recordings and video recordings, but we haven't seen or heard them. And that does make some of us suspicious about why we are trusting these Turkish accounts when they can't provide the evidence that they're based on. Yeah. And I think this has been really. Problematic both in the way that the investigation is gone and it's been a, that'd be totally honest. It's been very difficult for us as reporters because this is where the information is coming from. What I've tried to do is go to my sources on the US side and say, okay, look, how are you reading this based on the conversations you've had with the Turks and what they describe as inist because as far as I know, unless it's happening, you know, in at lower levels or in Warren's that we're not seeing which is possible. No one on the US side has gone through an analyze this recording. Do they even have access to it? I understanding is no. In fact, secretary pump Heo was in. Turkey yesterday and his spokesperson said he had not heard the tape and they were very keen to make sure reporters understood. He has not heard the tape, so I don't get that. You're asked to hear the tape, is it? Is it because he hasn't asked. They don't press on that we didn't get an answer the most we're getting his. He hasn't heard the tape because maybe they still want a little plausible deniability. Do think that is what's going on here. And I mean talking to fficials in allied countries as well. That is their read that the White House does not want to get in front of Saudi Arabia and the CIA is not going to get in front of the White House. And so let's just wait and see how the investigation goes, but that's really unusual. I mean, normally you would imagine the intelligence agencies saying, give it to us, give us a day. We'll assess it and we'll give you our opinion and why haven't the Turks released it. I think there's a couple of plausible reasons for that. We don't know exactly why one from the beginning has been this whole question of sources and methods which feels to me like has basically been blown apart now, like if you really have recording from inside the consulate, then you know, basically every consulate in Istanbul is gonna, bring rip in that place down to the studs, defined your bugs if that's how it happened. So that kinda that kinda. But I also think you know, let's be honest. It's a little bit of leverage of the Turks have right if they really do have this audio in, it is graphic as they claim it is an several people claim it is. It would be awful for the Saudis to have that out there to be, you know, uploaded on websites for people to listen to. So maybe it's their way of saying, because remember what is Turkey going to get out of this is a big question that's a bit of a car that they have to maybe leveraged the Saudis to come to some accommodation with Turkey. So are there going to be consequences for the Saudis out of all this is is the Trump White House prepared to do anything that punishes the Saudis for doing for for murdering, a journalist who is based in the United States, it's not clear that they are. The president has said they'll be very serious consequences, but the president says a lot of things. Certainly he will face tremendous. Pressure from Republicans and Democrats in congress to do something. And now the Magnitsky act is actually been triggered as part of all of us, which is really interesting. It's not clear to us that the White House is preparing anything really severe. It may be that they looked to the Saudis to make some internal corrections. There's been chatter about maybe Mohammed bin soman will be demoted to deputy crown, prince kind of find that one hard to believe isn't going to devote himself move back up to to be, hey, wouldn't that be like? You know, like the ultimate Netflix series ending. If you know the, the longtime CIA ally, who he neutralized taking. Told that there were some personal issues with m b. n. Mohammed bin naive. That was the reason he didn't get the job or wasn't able to stay in the job. There's been rumors about, you know, is he does. He have a drug problems. Defenders of his who say, you know, he might be on pain pills because he was severely injured nine years ago in an attempted suicide bombing. But yeah, I mean, there were other things at play here that I'm sure I'm Bs took advantage of, I mean, clearly understands the court and how it works. But in terms of like what we're hearing from sources coming out of the administration, it's not clear that there is sort of a a, you know, a package of sanctions or any concrete actions, and that could change. And I think it's going to depend to some degree on congress and how much pressure there is for them. I mean, we're now foreign policy usually doesn't play in elections and certainly not in midterms, but this is just a big ugly mess. The White House has to deal with heading three weeks into an election, and they wanted. They want to be a big distraction, and it could kind of muddy the message of candidates out there I wanted to. We're going to have to let you go, but I wanted to ask you one follow up question on some of the reporting. You did last week and sort of see where that stands. And there were questions about how much US intelligence officials had picked up about this plot, this alleged plot, and when they knew it, did they know it in real time? Did they know it earlier and did they have a so-called duty to warn if they had information that kashogi could in any way be harmed with? Where does that stand now? Do you have is your new reporting on that? Has that issue kind of been resolved? I think it's been resolved yet in part of the problem here has been that some of the lawmakers who want access to the intelligence of actually been having trouble getting it which Senator corker complained about yesterday. Our understanding is that the reporting that contain these, you know the information that Mohammed bin. So. Mom was putting ordering a plot to lure Jamal back to Saudi Arabia that reporting was generated prior to the time that he went into the consulate in Istanbul. What's not clear if anybody noticed it or if it really elevated up to a point where some policymaker was going to take action. So in that sense, what's not clear is whether it was does say, discovered historically, which is okay, this guy went missing, go back through the records and see if we have something on him and OG's look. Here's something that never percolated up to the level of policy and the standard is duty warned if there's grounds to believe he was going to be physically harmed. That's right. And whether a rendition taking him back to his home country would qualify against against right, this is what's kidnapping versus what's rendition. I talked to a former senior intelligence officials said, look if there was an interpretation of this information such that this looks like some kind of element of due process like he's going to be arrested. Or charged with something. We probably would not view that in the due to warn category. But if it was he was going to be killed, absolutely grave physical harm. It's actually, I think it is a member. Qualify counts, and then you get into the question of whether kidnapping and rendition like what's are the line that you're given his prominence, though you would think that you might air on the side of warning. One last question I want to get your thoughts on. We opened the show with a potential new who trend out there. February two thousand seventeen. The exiled half-brother of Kim Jong UN is assassinated in the Kuala Lumpur airport, March of two thousand eighteen Sergei score. Paul is is exposed to a chemical agent by Russian operatives for the purpose of assassinating him. And now we have this, is this the new trend? And you know, just as a extension of that, you know, doesn't that make how the Trump White House response to this all the more important. Because if you don't send the message that this kind of activity is unacceptable. It just means we're going to see more of state-sponsored assassinations. Yeah, I think it does look like a trend and you mentioned like three liters that all have something in common with their their hot headed and ending. And for whom Donald Trump has said, kind. With one of them so so. So he says, but I would even like go back to the even the the idea behind the question is, does the White House need to do something forceful responding? A lot of foreign policy experts say yes, but the question I have to is whether or not these actions are an outgrowth of the fact that there is this culture of permissiveness that the White House has in the president have created, which is essentially to say, we're not here to tell you what to do in your countries. You know, we're not necessarily going to push back on it. Forcefully. The president uses pretty aggressive, bellicose rhetoric on his own. I'm not saying he is, you know, causing this to happen, but is he sending a signal to these countries that you can get away with this? And this is not something that's going to invite a really tremendous response from us. I think the argue answered that is yes, and you know whether NBS took this action because he thought he could get away with it. We won't. We don't know right now, but certainly unless the president were to forcefully come forward at this point. Now, after three of these incidents in. Say something. I think you'd go credibly say that the United States position is, you know, you can assassinate an attack people on foreign soil, and we're not really gonna, say, boo about it Shane Harris. Thanks for joining us. You were great, and we'd love to have you back anytime. Love the show. Thanks guys. Thanks John. That was great. We'll be back with more skulduggery. We are now joined by a dick Clark wise on all matters involving Saudi Arabia, dick as the former counter-terrorism visor do President Bill Clinton, and for a while President, George W Bush. He is the president of good harbor consulting the chairman of the Middle East institute and the host of the new podcast future state. Dick Clark. Welcome to skulduggery. Thank you. Thank you for letting me on your bucket podcast, a podcast. So like we have been delving deep into the fate of Jamal kashogi. It seems to be a pretty grisly story, and a lot of people are wondering where all this is headed and what the implications are for the US Saudi relationship. Give us your take. Well, I think it's a dream Li likely that the outcome of the various investigations will reveal. Will he was killed by Saudi intelligence officials in the consulate in Istanbul question, there is the two ordered that who approved that, and I'm not sure we're gonna get too far on that. I'm part of the investigation, but we, we can assume that it was fairly high up the idea that it was some rogue decision seems extremely unlikely given that this sort of thing has never been done before by the Saudis. This was an extraordinary act. What does it mean for US Saudi relations? You know you how the relations are important to both countries. They go back to Franklin Roosevelt. When he met the king of Saudi Arabia, the Saudis can do a lot of good in the Middle East if they want to and they can do a lot of harm if they. To they're great economic our, they're a great political power. We had hoped of. They were beginning to do a domestic reform that would make them more of a twenty first century country. But that reform was being driven by the crown prince and the crown prince maybe implicated in this murder. Dick l. let me ask you this because you know you have been inside the White House dealing with very sensitive national security matters and managing very sometimes difficult relationships including with the Saudis. So I want you to maybe think a little bit about if you were in the White House. Now how how you think you would be thinking about about this issue clearly you, you worked in more sort of traditional or normal administration's, but. I'm sure you would be outraged by what happened, but wouldn't there also be an enormous amount of Hangwringing about the implications of a serious? You know, the potential for serious rupture in the relationship and wouldn't that incentivize you to find ways to go back to business as usual as quickly as possible. How would you, how do you think you would you would deal with a situation like this. If I were advising a normal president in the situation, but I would say, look, we didn't want this to happen, but it's happened that we have to accept that reality in all the consequences, but come from that congress is not now in any near future, going to approve major arms sales to Saudi Arabia. So forget that don't even try that and tell them that. And if you lose some arm sales fun, you lose some arm sales. You know, we're not an arms store that's opened for everybody to buy everything all the time. We never have been refused sales to people in the past, even though it costs us jobs, refused sales to the Saudis in the past, even though it costs us jobs. That's the first thing. The second thing is. America is unlike other countries in that our great strengths on the international scene has been until Trump at least some degree of of moral standing. Even with George W Bush who got a lot of criticism correctly for the Iraq war mistake. I mean, he was doing some good things like, you know, the aids HIV initiative kept millions of Africans a lot. We are different. We stand for something. We're not just a piece of geography where a political idea, and that political idea includes the rule of law. We can't just walk away from that and he come amoral and still have the power on the international scene that we had. So we have to do something. And then something probably includes a cooling off in our relationship with Saudi Arabia until and unless they come clean and there's a count ability rather than impunity. So you mentioned before we haven't seen the Saudis do something like this before. Of course, they've, you know, executed and beheaded people in their own country, including political dissidents. But kashogi was a journalist, he was based in the United States. This was on foreign soil or in a foreign country. Why would they have gone to these lanes against him? Explain wondering. Give us most of us have Jamal kashogi oh, I'm the chairman, as you said of the Middle East institute, a Washington-based think tank that's been around for seventy five years. Jamal came to our meetings. He was on our panel. He was a well-known figure in Washington. He was an employee on the Washington Post. Now he was what we call a US person, and he had a green card. He was a permanent resident alien. There's never been in my memory case of the Saudis, killing someone who fills all of those boxes doing in a NATO country. And then you know, chopping him up in pieces and putting them in a box on it. It's just unprecedented and you can't come up with a rational reason. You can try to put yourself in the shoes of a decision maker, but. Never gets a rational this. Maybe they were trying to send a message to other dissidents that the this is what happens to you and we'll get you wherever you are, and no one can stop. We have impunity, you know, that's very reminiscent of Putin going after former spies and diplomats and dissidents overseas because clearly that's the message that Putin wants to send. You can't. You can't run beyond our our ability to kill you and we can kill you get away with it. Well, dick, if it turns out that NBS had foreknowledge of of this decision to kill our kashogi, what does that say about the the effective ruler of Saudi Arabia? And what does it say about his ability to continue. Ruling in that kingdom. Well, I'm not sure we'll ever really know if if the crown prince made the decision or not when we might luck out and have intelligence that is definitive, if we do how could he not have known about this? How could he not have? Well, we may never know. Do we assume? Oh sure. We assume it's not the kind of government where people make this kind of decision on their own at a level below him. I wouldn't think so. Yeah, we can assume it, but if we don't know it, that presents a different issue because in the absence of evidence, we can say, well, you know, it's not proven, we don't know, and I'm surely I'm sure this administration. We'll try that. Now the congress, of course, get spree FT. At least the intelligence committees get briefed on questions, like and the intelligence. Committees can say, show me all intelligence show me all the intercept show me all the human reports. And if it turns out that one of those intelligence reports is definitive about who made the decision. Well, then there's a, there's a more difficult problem of accountability at that point. And if it doesn't and no hard evidence ever emerges, but the strong suspicion is that he had a hand in this do things eventually just go back to to, you know, we go back to to business back to normal, not the way I think there's a scenario may play out in the next few days. There's a scenario in which they throw someone under the bus, they say, oh my God, the intelligence minister did something awful, and he's been fired and people under him been arrested and they've been sent to jail. And of course you. May never know whether or not they've been sent to jail, but they may replace a minister. And if we don't know that it went above him, we may just have to accept that. But even at that, I don't think things go back to normal right away. I don't think they publicly disclose who ends up in chop chop square in Riyadh. Do they? Yeah, they do know they do. They do normally say they do, yeah. When when they when they have public capital punishment, they do normally say with it. So it's, it's, they hold people accountable here. We should expect the execution of whoever was in the council at in. I would never expect that. You know if they, if they chose someone under the bus, I think you're gonna see, perhaps any minister changed out. You're going to say some people tr- allegedly tried and secret trials and allegedly sent to jail. We'll never really know if they were not it is murdered. Do they not have capital punisher you the. Do it be shocked beyond even the shock of what they just did if they took some of their intelligence officers involved in and and killed them very surprised. Dick, what do you think that domestic implications in Saudi Arabia are? Because you know you is, is there a scenario under which this destabilizes the the kingdom and and the Royal family, you know, over time, even a lose, lose its grip on power that that's kind of a nightmare scenario. Right. I mean, I heard Tom Friedman of the New York Times talking about, you know, the possibility perhaps remote, but if Saudi Arabia becoming a failed state, you know, with all those oil reserves and an ideology that's not going to hurt, that's going to happen dome smoking something there, but no, no, what what could happen? There's probably, you know, less than ten percent chance that. The king replaces the crown prince and that creates a certain number of problems. One of them is his reform programs, which we like opening up the country and limited ways and and changing the their dependence on oil and doing all sorts of good things that reform program might die. If he were no longer the crown prince would become the crown prince, possibly someone who would bring them back to more traditional conservative ways. You know, this crown prince has taken the religious police on kind of put them in the box and said, you know, go away, don't don't continue to impose strict religious rules on the country. This crown Princess, the HAMAs them the type of Islam, the type of Sumi Islam that has been practiced in Saudi Arabia is. Wrong. It's too too strict to traditional, and he's taking the country away from a hob ISM. Well, somebody else's crown prince could walk that cat back. So. Well, a lot of people say they want this crown prince out if he were involved in this decision. I think it's very important about who would replace him in the unlikely event that happened. Let's talk about the implications here in the United States. You know, the Saudis have been famously throwing money around Washington for years for decades, including think tanks, and I'm looking at the list of contributors to the Middle East stone. We do. We received a an unrestricted donation of two million dollars two years ago from the from the Saudi embassy. And we declared that publicly, we declare every donation get publicly. We only take on restrict Dawson Saudi, Aramco, I believe is annual contributor of up to a million dollars. So I wish I wish it were. No, it does contribute to nothing. Nothing. Nothing like that. So are you going to continue to take Saudi money? Well, the moment we had the board meeting this week to the side on the board was unanimous that no, under the current circumstances, we don't think that it's appropriate for for us to take Saudi government money. We pulled out of a cultural program in New York this week that we were co-sponsoring with the Saudi embassy. You know, the only way that the. Middle East institute is willing to take funding from foreign governments is if they're unrestricted grants. And if they acknowledge our statement that our scholars have academic freedom and we never want a donor and it'd be the human individual being or government to call up and say, you know, do this or do that, and, and I don't like that tweet or I don't like that report or don't like that guy being on the panel, we've walked away before from government money. We had a basis. Do you return some of that two million dollars that you did receive a couple of years ago, we spent it. We got it two years ago. We had, you know, a program for a long time where the Turkish government funded programs on on Turkey and the US. And then they didn't like some of the panelists that we had on on those programs because they were critical of air. One and we told them don't. That's you don't get chose. So they stopped the funding and we continued having the program. So we continue to have in critics of air to one. I think it's very important if you're going to take donations from from four, let me kind of asking the understanding is clear that they don't get any control over our scholars. So do you expect we're going to see more of this other think tanks cutting refusing to take Saudi money. And how long do you think that lasts? If that's the case? Well, I don't know. Other than tanks are frankly more mercenary. I don't want to name names and then there was something. You know, because on fair, please do. But there are other think tanks that you know like the US institute for peace and the Wilson center take money from the US government and therefore, you know, they don't have to compete for foreign grants. You know, we take mainly grants from from Americans from foundations, American foundations, but we also are willing to get grants from me from the EU from Norway from from other countries that are interested in supporting the things were already doing dick. I want to ask you one more question about the Saudi US relationship because they're, you know, maybe certain things that happen in in the wake of of this of this episode to to cool down the relationship. But I'm wondering if there are other things that are going to say unchanged in one of the things that you know, as well as anybody is. I guess how important that counterterrorism relationship has been over the years and the military to military relationship? Talk a little bit about how important that relationship is and whether you know it could be jeopardized in any way. Because one thing I think you know some people may remember is fifteen of the nineteen. Al Qaeda. Terrorists were Saudis, and that's something we never, you know, we, we didn't get any intelligence pass along that prevented that. Now that may be a fair may not be a fair criticism, but but but I think people out there, they always here this about the importance of the relationship. They don't necessarily always understand it. Well, we did not have a good intelligence relationship with the Saudis before nine eleven. I was running. I was frustrated as hell by them. They were not telling us now about Al Qaeda and they were. They were in some ways in denial about the threat even after nine, eleven until the Al Qaeda bombs started going off near the Royal palace but did get religion, no pun unintended. And when after Okada kinda in a big way, it wasn't always good. It has been since who you know, two thousand three or so military cooperation. Well, certainly good in nineteen ninety and ninety one when we protected them from an Iraqi invasion after the Iraqis occupied Kuwait, but we don't have any military bases in Saudi Arabia. We don't have any US military stationed in Saudi Arabia. So the military relationship we have with them as much us than it is with. For example, the other Gulf states, Kuwait Bahrain cutter the UAE. In those sports states, we have permanent US military the his long as we were talking about nine eleven to some extent. I want to remind some of our listeners that you have spoken a bit over the years about a story that climate and I, I broke, which was the fact that. Two, two of the nine eleven hijackers were traced by the CIA coming into the United States before nine eleven living openly in San Diego, and they never tipped off the the FBI the CIA didn't. And you have concluded that that was deliberate by the CIA that they purposely kept the FBI in the blind. And so the question is why they would have done. So were they protecting the Saudis? Was the CIA hoping to work for with the Saudis and think that the Saudis we're going to watch these guys. And if that's the case, did something go terribly awry concluded. I mean, the CIA inspector general issued a report on this. The chairman of the Senate intelligence committee has at the time. Centigram has spoken extensively about this numerous FBI officials testified about it. State the facts, and then you know, say what? The what my theory is. The facts are that two al-qaeda members came into the United States and firmly thereafter the CIA became aware of that. They knew that they were not just run from the mill terrorists, but they were in fact all in putting tax that had already occurred. Those two Al Qaeda. People were then approached by someone who may have been a Saudi intelligence officer according to the FBI. The CIA was aware that they were in the country. Was it where over a year over fifty CIA officials knew it. They never told me even though I received the daily briefing often by the CIA director himself, they never told the FBI, the liaison officers that we had put from the FBI in the eye headquarters. We're told they couldn't tell anybody else in the FBI. It was essential decision not to tell me beyond. All right, why? Well, I think the obvious reason is if I had known or if they have be, I had known these guys would have been arrested right away. And for some reason, the see I did not want them to be arrested and you can. I think only conclude one thing that they were following them or hope to flip them and failed to do that. And at some point weeks before nine eleven, they realized that they had failed in that effort, and they really didn't have the money to control and they told a low level FBI fearful. Now, the problem is the CIA is not allowed to operate like that inside the US only the FBI can. So it's the CIA used Saudi intelligence to approach them under a false flag. Perhaps pretending to be all kinds of sympathizers and maybe the Saudi intelligence at the behest of CIA. Was running them in the US in any event, the c. i. officials involved, including the director have all denied all of this theory under oath. So if the theory is true, they've committed perjury if the theory isn't true, it's hard to come up with another explanation of the fact and and bottom line. Do you believe the Saudis were aware of their presence in the United States and aware of what they were up to? This is a guest. The Saudis were aware that they were in the US because the CIA told them that and that they were doing a favourite for the CIA and trying to flip them or monitor them. Do I know do I think I know that at some point, the Saudi intelligence people figured out what they were doing. I don't know to what degree of certitude do you have that if that information had been shared. And they've been picked up at the FBI that the plot the the nine eleven plot would have been real rolled up, or you can't say that didn't rich. In retrospect, it's hard for me to to say what I would have done, but I really don't know. I mean, you can't reliably run the clock. Let me likely would have done something right. I mean, well known that there were two al-qaeda terrorists inside the United States. I'd known that they were to terrorism the United States. I definitively I would've had them arrested, but then the hour. But would we have been able to break them and learn from the various threads that we could pull that there was a larger plot and break up that plot? I don't know. Dick, I wanna ask you about future state as a fellow podcasts. Der- tell us what future state is and what sort of episodes you've got feature state is right. Now, a ten part podcast series. It's like Bill Clinton, Madeleine, Albright, Susan Rice, McCullough. Seth, Moulton we have a cyber war episode. We have a nuclear or episode episode on the the Trump assault on the media. What are hoping to do when I'm hoping to do it dialogue going about the issues that we would normally be discussing things like, you know, should be spending a trillion dollars on the new nuclear arsenal are we adequately defend against cyber war? What do we do about the rise of fascism is clearly going on around the world. Then there's the issues the Trump introduces themselves like the fact that he's engaged in the salt on the media. And when does that mean for for our country, their discussions between me and experts, I know and and people I've worked with. And people have worked for in government and so far we're getting a good response and we're out of time, but thank you for coming on skulduggery and good luck with future style. All right. Thanks very much. Thanks stink. Fascinating conversation. We really appreciate it. Thanks to Shane Harrison. Dick Clark for joining us on this week's episode. Don't forget to subscribe to skulduggery on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts and tell us what you think leave a review. The latest episode is also on Sirius XM on the weekend. Check it out on police channel. One twenty four on Saturdays at eleven AM eastern time with replays at ten pm and then Sundays at two AM and one PM. We'll talk to you next week.

Saudi Arabia United States President Trump CIA Jamal kashogi president Muhammad White House Riyadh NBS Saudi government Istanbul Trump White House prince Mohammad bin Salman soman Saudi embassy Shane Harris Middle East congress
FBI Accidentally Reveals The Name Of A Saudi Official Potentially Tied To 9/11

NPR's World Story of the Day

05:39 min | 9 months ago

FBI Accidentally Reveals The Name Of A Saudi Official Potentially Tied To 9/11

"The name was supposed to be redacted hidden from public view. It was at the bottom of page seven of a court document recently filed by the FBI and it was named the US. Government has tried to keep secret for almost two decades. But someone made a mistake. The name was not redacted which means the government itself publicly revealed the name of a Saudi official the FBI suspected may have had ties to the hijackers who carried out the nine eleven attacks. Michael isikoff broke this story for Yahoo News. He joins us now to fill in some details. They Michael Either High Reliever suspense. Who is this official? Well he is a was Saudi foreign ministry official credited. Saudi diplomat assigned to the Saudi embassy in Washington. His name Mossad. al-Jarrah And not a name. That Was On anybody's radar screen right But the FBI as you know for years there have been these questions swirling around the nine eleven case as to whether or not there was Saudi government involvement. Not necessarily as a government writ large decision made at the very top by Riyadh but members of the Saudi government who may have assisted the hijackers and F. B. I. Agents. Were quite suspicious on this score They found a lot of unanswered questions. Particularly about the period in southern California when two of the hijackers flew in in January. Two thousand They didn't speak English. They didn't know anybody and somehow they're set up with an apartment and bank accounts and went money so they can live in San Diego while they are plotting the terrorist attack on nine eleven and FBI agents believe that there had been Saudi support and infrastructure that had provided these hijackers with the wherewithal to do what they could and they focused in particular on a number of Saudis and Southern California and directions that they believe they were taking from this. Saudi embassy official in Washington whose duties were to oversee sort of Ministry of Islamic affairs activities in the United States at the mosques and the Islamic centers to this guy was he was the guy that was his job to oversee. What Islamic Affairs folks were doing at the mosques and the FBI developed the agents developed? Evidence that Jarrah had flown to Los Angeles met with a radical cleric at the king. Fahd mosque where the hijackers were known to have spent time And What they concluded in two thousand twelve reports that had been buried for years that had not been ever made public Into last couple of years is that the the The folks in southern California the Saudis. Were supporting the hijackers had been tasked to do so by another individual whose name was walked out that was al-Jarrah. That was the secret name that nobody had ever seen. But thanks to this FBI DECLARATION. The world now knows well. Let's get to the significance of this because that seemed documents says that his name is a state secret that could cause harm to national security. If it were ever to be revealed and here we are saying what is the? Fbi said about how this kind of lapse happened. I the first thing that was done when I called them for comment on this On Monday is the document was stricken from the public record. So court record now you will not find it but luckily because I happened to notice it over the weekend I downloaded it and made a copy and we published it on Yahoo News website with my story so it it is there for all to read but yeah. What's so interesting about this? Is that attorney? General William Bar and Richard Grenell. The acting director of national intelligence both vile these motions with the court. Invoking state secrets over not just the name but all the evidence that supported the conclusion that those FBI agents had come to So the the the bank records the phone records all the evidence that they compiled in the course of this investigation continues to be a state secret as far as the Justice Department and the intelligence community is concerned. And that's what the lawyers for the families of the nine eleven victims fighting over in this court case they want access. They wanted act. They wanted the name out there but they also want to see the records that support why the agents believed that this Guy Jarrah was tasking the support for the hijackers. We have a few seconds left Michael but as a fellow reporter. I'm totally intrigued. How did you stumble upon this document? Well as a matter of fact I had been following the case for some time and I get alerts when new filings come in. I saw over the weekend I started to read it and I noticed the name and I said Whoa there it is. That's the name a lot of people have been looking for and clearly somebody screwed up a tale that is Michael isikoff chief investigative correspondent for Yahoo News. Thanks for coming and sharing it with us. Any time thank you.

FBI Saudi embassy Michael isikoff Saudi government Southern California Yahoo official Guy Jarrah United States Washington Islamic Affairs Fahd mosque Riyadh Ministry of Islamic affairs Los Angeles San Diego Mossad. acting director
Buried Treasure: The Saudi influence in Washington, DC

Skullduggery

26:12 min | 2 years ago

Buried Treasure: The Saudi influence in Washington, DC

"Donald Trump had barely been elected president. When reporters discovered an unusually creative lobbying campaign that had been quietly launched by the government of study Arabia. The Saudis were upset about a law recently passed by congress that would allow the families of the September, eleventh, thick Dems to sue them for alleged complicity in the terror attacks that killed their loved ones. So the Saudis began recruiting American military veterans from around the country offering to fly them to Washington and put them up in a plush new luxury hotel. If they would agree to press congress to get rid of the new law, you can probably guess which hotels the Saudis had decided to patriots. As I wrote for Yahoo news in March two thousand seventeen there were putting the veterans up at the brand new Trump International hotel. The very same motel that happened to be owned by one Donald J Trump and members of the Trump family over all the Saudi government spent two hundred seventy thousand dollars on rooms and meals for. American veterans at the Trump hotel a figure that was recently cited by a federal judge as a possible, unconstitutional violation of the prohibition on presidents and other federal office holders receiving emoluments from foreign governments. The disclosure of the Saudis tried to combine the political punch of veterans with lucrative revenues for the president's personal business is only a small chapter in the larger story of Saudi influence-buying buying in Washington. It is a tale big money and powerful lobbying cloud that is about to be sorely tested by the shocking disappearance of Jamal kashogi a widely respected journalist and critic of the current Saudi regime who entered the Saudi consulate in Istanbul earlier this month and never came out amid reports that he may have been brutally murdered. We'll discuss the Saudi lobbying efforts and the big money behind it on today's buried treasure. I'm Michael Isikoff chief investigative correspondent for Yahoo news, and I'm Dan Kleinman editor and chief of Yahoo news. You know, we've spent so much time on this show talking about Russian money and Russian connections, Donald Trump. But I think it's probably about time. We put the spotlight on the Saudi connections to Donald Trump. Absolutely. And as you said in your introduction, you know, this was just a tiny part of the what, you know the Saudi campaign to spread their money and influence around Washington Wall Street, Hollywood, all over the country, two hundred and seventy thousand dollars for the Saudi Royal family that that is a drop in the in the bucket. But look, I think this in some ways is a scandal that was just waiting to explode for a long time. They're just are so many interests in this country that have been addicted to Saudi money for decades and decades and decades. You know, I think this is a story that has legs. We're going to be hearing about this for a long time. We talked on skulduggery last week about this Saudi investor conference that Mohammed bin Salman the crown prince's putting on in in Riyadh, the so-called. Dabo's in the desert. You're beginning to get some business leaders pulling out the Jamie diamond. The CEO of j. p. Morgan has said he's going to pull out as have some others. But interestingly, at least as of this recording, none have actually said why they're pulling out, they they, you know, even either haven't explained it or they've, you know, said something bland, like scheduling conflicts, and I think that's a small sign that these these companies, these business interests are no, that there is a giant spigot of Saudi money coming that they can't afford turn off. And so the question is, will this just be short period when when they're kind of laying low, but ultimately they go back to to to to getting that money? Yeah, exactly. They're trying to leave that door open, hoping that things can go back to businesses. As usual. And when I say we got look at Donald Trump and Saudi money, you know, to be fair, we the Saudis have been spreading that money around in so many different ways to every president we've had for decades. Now every presidential library you go to and you will see the name of you will see on the wall of funders, the kingdom of Saudi Arabia or various members of the Royal kingdom who have pumped money into the building of the US presidents personal library. The number of lobbyists on the Saudi payroll in Washington, Republican and democrat is is legendary. But you know what fascinates me about the story we're about to talk about is the sort of both the crassness of of it and the creativity behind it using veterans, putting them up in the Saudi hotel. L. and we've got a just the guy to talk about it. Now somebody who's been tracking that for quite some time. We've now got on the line Brian mcclennan who is a independent journalist who runs a website called Twenty-eight pages, dot org, Brian, welcome to bury treasure Greek abused both of you. So first of all, start out telling us what is twenty eight pages dot org website that I really launched to help bring about the declassification of twenty eight pages on foreign government links to the nine eleven attack this Page's report of a congressional intelligence inquiry report and were classified by the Bush administration. And there was a a drive lasting more than a decade to declassify those pages and that drive gained steam. I kinda joined the effort to help create a website that would provide information and help facilitate citizen activism and help push that objective over the edge to success. Foreign links. We're really talking about Saudi links here. We don't want Saudi. Government links to the nine eleven attackers. Yeah. When the stages were declassified, for example, revealed one of the names that came up over and over again was that of Saudi prince Bondar who at the time, the nine eleven attacks was the Saudi ambassador to the United States and close family friends with the Bush families. Well. We haven't seen a smoking gun that shows Saudi government, foreknowledge of the September eleventh terror attacks, right. It's more sort of these murky links of either to the hijackers or people close to the hijackers who seem to have connections with both individuals and the Saudi government and wealthy Saudis themselves. There's quite quite a lot of different avenues that point that way. For example, two of the hijackers on flight seventy seven who were based in the San Diego area. They're the ones that most they're really at the center of the nine eleven civil suit right now. They. Appea- there, many connections between their associates and Saudi government officials and suspected Saudi government officials these by the way where the hijackers Mike. And I know a lot about this story because we did a new Newsweek cover story back in when was it as a cough, two thousand two thousand two. The the, the nine, eleven hijackers the CIA let getaway and they were living openly in San Diego. Even though the the the CIA had actually tracked them into the country, but then didn't bother to tell the FBI even worse. They actually prevented the FBI agents who were assigned at Alex station at the station that was studying bin Laden actually actively intervened to prevent them from notifying FBI headquarters. I know now Qaeda associate at obtained a multi US visa. So the so the families of the nine eleven victims have been pressing for years. To be able to sue various that both the kingdom itself and various individuals in the kingdom members of the Royal family. They finally got their chance in late two thousand sixteen when congress passes a law that basically allows them to bring these suits in federal courts in the United States over the strenuous opposition of the Obama White House. By the way, I believe correct me if I'm wrong Brian, the Bresnan Obama veto the law is his veto got overridden by the house and Senate. So it became new law. That was the only time that one of Obama's vetoes was overridden correct. The only time which is pretty good sign that. American support for the Saudis and and viewing the Saudi relationship as integral to American foreign policy is not unique to the Trump administration or any administration in in recent decades. It's all of them that saw the Saudis as important allies in the in the Middle East. Correct, absolutely. True. We have no matter what party is holding the White House. We've got that bipartisan devotion to that Saudi relationship, right? And so after the the lies past the Saudis mount this very unusual and creative way to try to get congress to overturn the law. And Brian, you're very helpful to me when I was writing the story about this back in March two thousand seventeen, but lay out what the Saudis did and how they did it. Well, in this fight, Saudi. Arabia is in Washington, and in the nation was facing a very sympathetic set of adversary specifically, you know, nine, eleven widows and family members who were trying to have their day in court. And you know, you talk about their creativity. Know they kind of sought out the next most sympathetic audience in modern American society, which was US military veterans, and they proceeded to launch an enormous campaign across the entire country where they basically gave veterans of false description of what this new law that Justice against bunches of terrorism act implied for them. Specifically telling them that if gesture would have passed that US military veterans themselves would face trial in foreign countries, you know, related to their wars and their deployments and so forth. This absolutely false. So they, they told them this. And then they said, hey, we've got a grassroots campaign. Some veterans are getting together in Washington to lobby against this. Measure to help protect their fellow service members. And would you be interested in coming to Washington DC, all expenses paid to lobby congress to weaken, you know to change this law now, but he these veterans. I interviewed said they had no idea that this was all being run by Saudi Arabia and its lobbyists, and specifically its flagship lobbying NPR firm. Corvus communication veterans came to Washington, where did they stay? They stayed at the most of them stayed at the Trump International. There's also some other hotels that were used to give a little bit of a flavor of how they were trying to entice these veterans to come along. I think this is from the invitation. This is in your story as a cough, you don't have to know anything about jazz STA wrote lure. He was working for. He was a consultant working for the Saudis to a group of veterans. She was trying to recruit for the effort, quote in his all expenses paid. Flight dinner hotel, transportation, they will be putting you. Putting you in the Trump hotel, which is an increase, which is incredibly nice. It's an awesome trip and basically like a five star vacation. That's a little heavy handed. Kind of an offer. You can't refuse and for a lot of these veterans and you know, they were specifically targeting war veterans. A lot of these veterans, they were in a place emotionally where this is a very appealing to them because they the idea of getting together and doing something for the good or what they perceive to be the good of fellow veterans with highly appealing to them. Now you can imagine the outrage, you know, some of the ones I interviewed who told me I enlisted because of nine eleven. And then for me to find out that I had been tricked into lobbying on behalf of Saudi Arabia, which has been credibly, accused of having links to the attacks, the the outrage was pretty visceral. Just from what you know, Brian, how did they happen to pick the Trump hotel as the place. These veterans up. Well, number, I can't exactly what their motivations worth number number, and it's a very opulent hotel on the this place was kind of free wheeling free-spending operation. Of course, we cannot absolutely discount of the very real possibility that wanting to curry favor with the new administration as well in violation cuttings rate location, which would be a violation of the emoluments clause. So this could end up in in the articles of impeachment. But I should say, we, you know, I travelled to Washington all the time and one of the things that they said Mike, in the your story when you talk to the PR representatives to this for for the Saudis was they got a great rate. I think it was at three hundred dollars a night or whatever. Like I go to DC. Like I go to DC all the time and we, they never, actually, I car people never actually recommend the Trump hotel. Minded traveler. Yeah, right, right. Okay. Leeann at least two hundred seventy thousand dollars was spent there that may actually understate because you've got other parties in this operation who are themselves, you know, compensated who may have some of their compensation may reflect expenses. They had themselves incurred at the Trump hotel, the the main orchestrator of the Trump hotel lobbying operation. For example, his firm received eight hundred thousand dollars from Corvus on behalf of Saudi Arabia. So some portion of that to might Mike represented Trump hotel reimburse theory about this. This law head just overwhelmingly passed congress, and this is Gesta we're talking about, we referred to the acronym Brian, what is Justice? Dan for the Justice against sponsors of terrorism act. That was the name of the law that allows the families to sue the Saudi government over the nine eleven attacks. This overwhelmingly passed as I mentioned so much so that Obama's veto. Of it was overridden. The actual chances of getting this law changed at that point in time was seems to me pretty negligible. So one wonders was where the Saudis really trying to change the law here or they just coming up with this unorthodox way of funneling money into the president's personal business. I think this is absolutely a dedicated hopeful effort to change that law. You know, at the time, even have to been my hand. Fenglin member of congress behind them who is willing to do to push for change in the law. Did they have people? Yeah, absolutely. They had -pointment in John McCain and Lindsey, Graham who right out of the gate the the day it was passed. You had a whole letter signed by a whole number of senators saying, we're, we're passing. We're voting for this. However, we've got some reservations and we want to evaluate whether we can strengthen this law and you had McCain and Graham who were reliable, Aaron boys for the Saudi kingdom right out of the gate were doing floor speeches. On this topic, you had a believes brownstein Hyatt. The lobbying firm for Saudi Arabia was routing around of proposed changes in the language. Now keep in mind. They didn't have to tear the whole thing down. You know, it was politically a pass very quickly really what they needed to do with weaken it. And so that's what they were trying to do was to amend the law in such a way that it would make it a higher hurdle for this nine eleven families to prevail. Court and the scope of this with well beyond Washington or operatives all over the nation involved in this there was there was even lobbying state legislators and governors to have them in turn pressure, Washington, big out of some supposed fear that it would affect. You know, business commerce between Saudi Arabian states, like Texas that have large defense manufacturers and so forth. I don't doubt for a moment this sincerity with which the kingdom was trying to get this little tweet Brian. If you if you doubt this in Siri of Lindsey, Graham and John McCain, who you referred to as reliable Erin boys for the Saudi government because I mean, couldn't this just be real politics. I mean, the relationship between the United States and Saudi Arabia is an important strategic relationship. You know, a bulwark against the Iranians, very wealthy country. I mean, occupies a very important place in our geopolitics in our interest. So. You know in might be you, you just make disagree with it, but don't don't you think they did it out of, you know, sincere, you know, beliefs. I think they did it. I mean, you could call real politics, but I think what we have in Washington in our relationship in the Middle East is where real politic is defined, not necessarily what's in the interest of American citizens, but what's an interest in solidifying relationships between our intelligence community and other intelligence communities in our defense sector and its customers abroad. And I think I think a lot of times we see the rationales become circular. You know, Saudi Arabia is is billed as a bulwark against Iran, and then you know, we're the hostility towards Iran is driven by the fact that it's a an arrival of Saudi Arabia, and it's. You know, I don't believe we know. I don't think really need a bulwark against Iran in the Middle East. I think a lot of this is kind of contrived and become circular logic in that we associated with Saudi Arabia, and thus their rival becomes our rival when we should probably take more hands off relationship with both of put this in the context of the broader context of Saudi influence in Washington. I think there's been some studies about, you know, over one hundred lobbyists are on the Saudi payroll in Washington, the amount of money that the Saudis spend on lobbying nearly tripled. I believe in in two thousand seventeen upwards of twenty seven million dollars. And then you look more broadly. We mentioned before than an eye, the Saudi funding of president. Libraries, but there's also think tanks and various and money that pours into universities. This is a really substantial chunk of change that the Saudis spend in the United States aimed at influencing American policy as well beyond men and women in suits drilling Capitol Hill, like you said and highlight one example you, you mentioned think-tanks. Any kind of gets back to my point earlier about this being circular in terms of you Saudi Arabia being designated a key ally will. It's kind of a key doesn't get a key ally because we designated a key ally becomes becomes a circular. For example, Saudi Arabia is a major supporter of the center for strategic and international studies. One of the most revered think tanks in Washington, and if you evaluate its output, you see it. A lot of it looks like it was written by Saudi Arabia. Well, then that. That in turn influences legislators and journalists, you know their output to take this pro pro Saudi line into to keep parroting the fact that Saudi Arabia is a key ally and on top of that because I looked at the Saudi funding of the obscene SIS as you mentioned, but there's also the funding of big arms dealers arm, weapons contractors, Lockheed Martin, Boeing, all those very same cast of characters who the President Trump is. Now, citing as the people who the Saudis are going to buy weapons for translating into jobs in the United States, right near the Catholic character supporting CSI. They're all kind of have this shared interests in perpetuating the status quo with Saudi Arabia, whatever the underlying reality and it's it's called a key ally. But again, to get back to. To kind of what the center of this discussion with picked up. This discussion was the fact that you've got all kinds of links between Saudi royals and Al Qaeda. You know, you've got the twentieth hijacker Zachariah Moussaoui, you know, giving a sworn statement that he managed to spreadsheet where he tracked donations from a number of Saudi royals to l. Qaeda plus all the other evidence that the nine eleven plaintiffs have now are have assembled in their case. We're, we're going to have to wrap up this conversation, but I just one little bit of news since we've been talking. And this comes from our yahu news colleague, Alex Zarian who just went up with the story of a about some of these think tanks in Washington that are heavily funded by the Saudis, and some of them at least are beginning to get uncomfortable about their relationship. And Alex is just reporting that the. Cooking's institution, which is one of the most important. Think tanks in Washington has decided to end its relationship with with Riyadh, and they put out a statement that said that the Brookings Institution has decided to terminate our soul research grants with the government of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia effective immediately. So we'll see if CSI s in some of these other institutions follow suit, but thank you so much Brian mcglinchey for joining us on on buried treasure is a fascinating conversation, and this is a story that is not going away so we may. We may be talking to you again soon. Great, great to be with you. All right. Thanks Brian. So look as we break up a couple of additional breaking news items we should share here. I, of course, is the reports that the Saudis are about to admit or acknowledge that. In fact, Jamal kashogi that dissident journalists who disappeared in. Side, the Saudi consulate was in fact murdered during his interrogation. We haven't seen exactly the Saudi statement yet, but it seems a sign that they are at least attempting to come clean. We should. We should also say that at least the reports at this moment, as we record indicate that the that the Saudis are looking for ways to insulate Mohammed bin Salman by suggesting that maybe this was you know, some part of the Saudi Mahabharata in the intelligence apparatus going rogue, and that the Saudi prince crown prince did not know about it. So we'll see how that plays out. Right, right. And and exactly as just underscore how awkward all this is for the Saudi efforts to burnish their image in the United States. The other day on skulduggery. I noted the invitation I'd gotten from. The embassy of the kingdom of Saudi Arabia and its ambassador, inviting me to the Saudi national day celebration at the Saudi embassy. This Thursday in Washington DC as we were interviewing Brian, I got a updated Email informing me that the event has been cancelled. Well, I guess the Saudis are not in any mood to celebrate given everything that's going on and as a cough, you won't be getting your your embassy canapes. All right. Anyway, that's it for this edition of buried treasure, but we will be staying on this story of the Saudis kashogi and the Trump administration. Thanks for joining us on this episode very treasure. Forget you can subscribe to skullduggery on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts and also tell us what you think the review. We'll talk to on Friday.

Saudi Arabia Saudi government Washington United States Saudi consulate Brian Trump hotel Saudi hotel Donald J Trump congress president Saudi embassy cough Arabia Trump administration Trump International hotel Washington Jamal kashogi Middle East Obama
News in Brief 22 January 2020

UN News

02:50 min | 1 year ago

News in Brief 22 January 2020

"This is the news in brief from the United Nations Independent. UN human rights experts on Wednesday called for an immediate investigation into allegations that digital spyware was used in two two thousand eighteen on a phone belonging to the chief executive of Amazon far a WHATSAPP account belonging to the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia rights experts Agnes Calamar and David. Kay said in a statement that information we have received suggest the possible involvement of the crown prince in surveillance of Amazon chief. Jeff visas in an effort to influence if not silenced Washington Post reporting on Saudi Arabia. Mr Owns The Washington Post. which at the time of the alleged hacking employed the prominent Saudi columnist? Jamal Kashogi. who was murdered in the Saudi concert? An Istanbul in October two thousand eighteen. The Independent special reporters said that according to forensic analysis following the alleged edged hacking the crown prince sent whatsapp messages. to Mr Bezos in Michi- allegedly revealed private and confidential information about Mr Beezus his personal life. That was not available from public sources. The Saudi embassy in Washington has described the media reports of alleged Saudi involvement in the hacking as absurd the UN secretary general role has welcomed the announcement late on Tuesday that following months of deadlock. Lebanon has formed a new government after the resignation of the former prime minister last October his successor. Hassan Diab was selected last month but amidst rising anti-government protests politicians. Were unable to agree the make-up of new cabinet following the announcement of the Council Council of Ministers is now in place and turn your cherish said that he was looking forward to working with the new leadership in support of a new reform agenda and to address the pressing needs of Lebanon's people more than four hundred sixty were injured in Beirut over the weekend protest turned violent. The Secretary General reiterates the United Nations commitment to support ought Lebanon's strengthening of its sovereignty. Stability and political independence said the statement issued by his spokesperson and finally Somalia's federal authorities and international national partners on Wednesday launched a humanitarian response plan recurring more than one billion dollars to provide much needed aid to some three million Somalis this year. UN Humanitarian Coordinator of Somalia Adam Abdel Mula said at the launch in the capital Mogadishu that the country was suffering through multiple crises including the recent floods floods that inundated large areas of the country while most of those lives who are affected have returned home. Many continued to struggle to rebuild their lives. He noted also attending ending the launch of the twenty twenty plan Somalia's Minister for Humanitarian Affairs disaster-management hamsters site Hamza said the plan demonstrates the commitment of the government and and coordination partner the U._N.. Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs as well as the international community to the people of Somalia. Matt Wells U._N. News.

UN Saudi Arabia Somalia Lebanon Amazon Hassan Diab Saudi embassy Coordination of Humanitarian A Adam Abdel Mula United Nations Independent Washington Post Mr Bezos chief executive Humanitarian Affairs Istanbul Mr Beezus Agnes Calamar Council Council of Ministers
Amanpour: Khalid Aljabri, Mark Mazzetti, Mona Fawaz and Tyler Shultz

Amanpour

57:51 min | 5 months ago

Amanpour: Khalid Aljabri, Mark Mazzetti, Mona Fawaz and Tyler Shultz

"We expect a lot from our home is where we live our lives where memories are made where we rest and recharge work and play its home at home advisor committed to keeping yours up and running whether you need to repair and overloaded appliance or bill that summer backyard retreat use the homeadvisor. APP. To find a local pro, we'll get the job done right whatever you need big or small. They'll do everything to fix your everything, download the home advisor APP and get started today. Hello, everyone, and welcome to import. Here's what's coming up. New allegations against Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman filed in a US court Dr Saad Algebris former Saudi spy chief claims. He could be the next victim off to journalists Jamal Kashogi our exclusive with his son holiday job Then as the investigation continues into the catastrophic Beirut explosion, we examined the impact of this latest crisis on the people there and everyone loves a good story. Unfortunately I. Think you'll like this story so much that they didn't really question it to whistle blow who wrote down on us and it's miracle. Blood test technology. That case says about the current gold rush pro corona backseat? Welcome to the program everyone I'm Christine, Amanpour in London. A suit filed in Washington DC raises stunning new allegations against the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman doped Assad Algebris a former top Saudi intelligence official claims bin Salman sent him assassination squad to kill him just two weeks after the brutal murder of journalist Jamal? Kashogi I'll jog. Re is a longtime veteran of the Saudi government, an intelligence official with deep ties to the United States and other. Western. Nations. He claims that bin Salman dispatched hit squad to murder him at his new home in Canada in October twenty eighteen and that the government kidnapped to his children in an attempt to lure him back to Saudi Arabia now regarding this allegation, a senior State Department official says that the United States Condemned the unlawful Saudi imprisonment of the Children Sarah, and Oma Algebra and is working to secure their release for their part. Saudi officials have not yet responded to the case but according to the Wall Street. Journal. The Kingdom Accuses Algebris of corruption and mismanaging billions of government funds. Holiday Algebris is the son of Dr Saad and he is joining me now from Toronto for this exclusive interview, how did Algebra and welcome to the program now, this is unprecedented situation bringing such a public suit against the Crown Prince de facto leader of your country. Can I stop by us to lay out briefly your father's ties to the United States and his his record as a senior government official in Saudi Arabia first of all, thank you for having me in your show. I think I'm only in repeats what multiple US officials has spoken out. Imprinting public about the value that Dr Aside You know my father brought to the counterterrorism effort both inside Saudi Arabia and outside with Western allies saving hundreds if not thousands of lives on Saudi soil equally. On American soil. He is highly regarded. He served his country well. A lot of people say that the linchpin off the post nine eleven relationship between Saudi Arabia and the United States was based on security cooperation that was spearheaded by my father and the former krantz muhammed denied. So. Just to to lay it out, everybody remembers that the majority of the nine eleven hijackers were Saudi. But in the early two thousands, Saudi Arabia decided to go against al Qaeda because it was threatening them as well. You'll father then became a very prominent anti-terrorism official in that regard he also was at the time right hand man to Muhammed Benign. Now, for our viewers, he was at the time and has been the Saudi Crown Prince. He was also minister of interior and such an intelligence link, the intelligence links United States. It's that relationship isn't it that? Puts your father on the outs with the current crown, Prince. I think that's one of the main reasons absolutely you're. You're right. That's one reason behind the political targeting of my father and my family him being perceived as a threat because his close loyalty to NBS mean main contender from our competence deny if. So. We have heard from in various forums I former CIA director John Brennan said in an interview that he believes NBS as he is popularly known practically all over the World Mohammed bin Salman the crown prince went off to your father because he quote thought Saad with somebody he couldn't control. Do you believe that the Saudi authorities somehow wanted to control your father and if so why? I think that's a question for them to answer. What I'm here to talk about is basically the unlawful transnational global terror campaign that my family has been suffering for more than three years right now, it's a campaign that is seeking. The. Murder of my father and his actively taking my siblings, Sarah and Omar as hostages over the past three years with exhausted every possible avenue for quiet diplomacy and reconsiliation to no avail at the end, we were pushed into pursuing accountability injustice in a US federal courts. We hope that this current lawsuit will help end the torment free. Omar and Sarah on your night them with us. Protect My dad and end this nightmare for my family. Okay. So let's go. Let's go through these issues. You've just raised to major elements of your suit that you filed in. Washington DC your younger siblings, Sarah and Omar, tell me what happened to them. You allege that dozens of Saudi officials essentially disappeared them came got them from where they were in in Riyadh and they haven't been heard or seen since what do you think happened? So the story, with Sarah, starts actually before that it wasn't just in March of twenty twenty. Sarah, you know young bright kids they were minors then in twenty seventeen looking forward to their new life in Boston Sarah was going to complete her high school normal to his freshman year. Where ecstatic when they received their US student visas, they were in the airport heading to Boston on June twenty first that happened to be the same day that NBS became crown prince. They were stopped at the airport and banned from travel with no logical explanation or legalist explanation for that sake. During that time, it was shocking for every family member I actually remember Sarah Calling crying not understanding why she can't board a plane to see your family and start to a school in the US and then basically they've been hostage within the kingdom they've been bargained with they'd being used as pawns they've been used as crooked lateral indirect communication between the current Crown Prince and my dad he made it clear that the kids will only be. Allowed to travel to study if my dad's was re return to the Kingdom and you know we've stayed quiet, we had tapped it was extremely painful your mother yourself. You can imagine a seventeen year old girl being away from her mom. That's exactly when she needs to be in her mum's armed the most Omar Bright Guy. He loved the Celtics was looking forward to getting a season ticket and going to each game in and out. And basically, you know our lives were changed forever at every lunch every dinner every birthday there's a couple of chairs empty. There's a lot of in our hearts I mean last week my youngest brother who was six when Sarah kept US hostages in Saudi. Turned nine nine years old and he started asking me where Sarah I miss her I, want to talk to her on. Honestly I ran out of answers and I don't know what to tell him. We've adapted they went back to school. We were always concerned about things escalating because the we know the reason they were only kept as collateral and as bargaining chips, and by the way, the facts was raised very high up even with government officials back in. Two thousand seventeen. So this is not an you encounter. Again, during these three years, we basically explored every single avenue for quiet diplomacy to no avail to Saudi government wasn't even interested. Didn't even give adequate explanations to why Sarah or being held now in March six, which is interesting. It was Sarah's birthday and it was also the same day that Crown Prince Mohammad Deny was arrested Omar and Sarah were summoned to state security and there were explicitly told that. You need to convince your family through a turn to the Kingdom Sarah. Left crying. She called torment that she told my cousin that she felt this was an ultimatum and that they'll be arrested soon and guess what she was right a week later at six am fifty officers showed up to our house in Riyadh and literally kidnapped them from the comfort of the of their. Beds since then we haven't heard from them, we don't even know if they're dead or alive. Have they fallen ill to covert? What's the reason averaged every single official that I had good rapport including the head of security who are foreign medical team to treat, and basically he reads my messages and he doesn't respond and honestly I don't know what the status of Sarah Omar. And I can read obviously the despair in your voice and I understand that this is probably one of the biggest reasons you have submitted this suit. We have to keep saying that we have reached out to the Saudi embassy in Washington so far we have received absolutely no word from them either no reaction to this super. We keep trying to get that official statistics. There's a fit based WANNA share with hold on a second hold on a second. The Saudi officials have told The Wall Street Journal at least a Saudi official that your siblings are in. So called a VIP. Imprisonment or prison situation there. Do you know anything about that and then what is it you want to add? I don't know what they're really mean by VIP prison is supposed to give us comfort and the same Wall Street report is should go back to their reporting in two thousand seventeen reported one person who died from torture at the Ritz. Carlton. which is supposed to be a seven star hotel. So that is I, mean, it's absolutely ridiculous. There is no reason whatsoever to keep Omar and Sarah in the kingdom as hostages since two thousand seventeen, and now unfortunately disappeared for about five months and by the way it's a good point that you bring. The questions to the Saudi Embassy Omar and Sarah where colleagues and classmates ambassadors, children, they know them they use. It goes to the same British school in Riyadh. So you know. I know I know embassador email might not be able to answer but she should answer the question as the mother of the colleagues, Omar and Sarah. How did I. Just wanted to at this point read yet another reaction from from from the United States official. Michael Morales you'll know former acting director of the said this to us I know Dr Saad Really. Well, what he's doing is for his safety and that of his children, what I don't have firsthand knowledge about what he alleges anyone that knows what MBA is being up to is not surprised doped Assad working with B. N. Mohammed Bin, Nyah, the former crown prince the former interior minister has been very helpful in the past to the United States government and to help prevent a tax to the homeland. So you and the and the suit. Brings. Up a very, very explosive allegation and let me read it so that I get it absolutely correctly essentially. The allegation is that a hit squad was dispatched to Canada where you living in. self-imposed. To, try to do whatever you tell me what? Happened some thirteen days after we know what happened to Jamal Kashogi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul? The The suit does not contain evidence of that. Can you tell me what basis? You allege that, and why is it in your suit? We are confident of our allegations and this will be litigated in court. But what I want to to as well that a lot of people are fixated on a specific. Suits regarding the the hit squad coming into. Into Canada but the campaign to neutralize dad and kill him has started in twenty seventeen keeping Sarah's hostages, reconditioning some family members and subjecting them to torture a misuse of Interpol notices. Honestly issuing direct threats and text exchanges. And saying, you know we will use legal means and other means that will be harmful to you. So, the sending spies in Boston where the FBI is totally aware of it, it's an. More than three year manhunt and it's not just specific to these allegations about hit squad coming in Toronto which we're more than confident that we will litigating in court. So, again, just to say what what we've heard from the Canadian authorities, Bill Blair whose Canada's Minister for Public Safety. Says, while we cannot comment on specific allegations currently before the courts we are aware of incidents in which foreign actors of attempted to monitor, intimidate or threatened Canadians, and those living in Canada. It is completely unacceptable and we will never tolerate foreign actors threatening Canada's national security or the safety of our citizens and our residents. HOLID- CAN I ask you before I get to what the Saudi government is alleging about your father what are they a? You're also out here talking you are in Toronto as well. How have you been affected I dunno drawn into this specifically. I. Father I am a brother. A doctor who dedicated his career to saving lives, and now all they care about is saving the lives of Sarah and Omar and my family. So I think anybody in my position will go to the extreme to secure the safety of his dad and to release his brother and sister from this unjustified imprisonment and disappearance it's been really tough to adopt. We are dealing with active threats as recent as a couple of weeks ago and I have to say I'm grateful for the vigilance if the security agencies both in the US and in Canada have been coming and engaging with us. And context of duty to warn as early as January two, thousand eighteen. and You yourself I believe and I think it says. So in the in the sued you in the United States with threatened in terms of. Something your studies disrupted or something you would try. They were trying to get you to persuade your father to go back trying to reach him through you. Yes. So I've been subjected to acts of spying espionage and Boston adequately documented with the. With the agencies in Boston. The government. Without any, excuse suspended my scholarship. They refuse to renew my passport. Apply every single possible collateral constraint on the family basically leaving them no way. But to go back to the kingdom, luckily I was able to stay in Boston complete my studies then immigrate to Canada. So, as you know, the Saudi government has not said anything formal. There seems to be a story that the Wall Street Journal has written in in the recent past, which quotes a lot of Saudi officials they accused. Of massive corruption. Let me read a little bit specifically alleging that a group of manual father lead while working for the Interior Ministry misspent some eleven billion dollars in government money paying your family at least one billion dollars. What is your reaction to that and and I mean presumably you have This this would probably come out in court as well. Let me say something you know baseless allegations fall apart when viewed by impartial due process or international government buddy. This is exactly what happened with Interpol more than two years ago. Whatever showed up in the Jill is recycled allegations that were put to bed by Interpol two years ago and deemed politically motivated. But let me set the record straight here. Sarah and Omar where banned from travel. The same day in BS became crown prince effectively his first order of business that was five months before his corruption campaign they're using this corruption pretense exactly like they're using Sarah to force my father return. We have repeatedly. In private asks for the government to send their lawyers. There's nothing to hide and then ask for an impartial due process in public that doesn't include. Assassinations or through child hostage-taking yesterday, we took the initiative by going to court. So the Saudis. Are More than welcome to come and defend the allegations, bring their own allegations. Let's settle this thing once and for good. Just to say about Interpol obviously, which was often called upon by the Saudi government to arrest your father, bring him back. They dismissed that having said that they deemed it to be politically motivated rather than strictly judicial. So finally, holid-, you've spoken a little bit just now about what you hope in other words, this will all come out in public that you have thrown down the first sort of gauntlet and that everybody will have to lawyer up. What do you hope to achieve? From the United States from the fact that you've taken this public in as I said, this is unprecedented way. Our main objective here is family reunification and says safety. That is our sole agenda. We love Saudi we don't have an agenda against anybody personally, we want to secure the safe unification of family. And we want to solve this issue once and for all. We are hopeful now that the party would come to the table we are hopeful that they can come and defend these allegations and bring their own. You know that's the way to to settle allegations in a civil wait. There's no need to kidnap children or send squads that's come and solve it. Let's deal with it as men. And on that note hotted algebris. Thank you so much for joining us. Now again, just to reiterate, we have reached out to the Saudi embassy in Washington so far we have not received any response meanwhile, The Times investigative correspondent. Mark Mazzetti is also running down these latest allegations against the Saudi leadership as well as new reports. The Saudi Arabia may be moving towards developing some kind of nuclear weapon or device, and he's joining me now from Washington Mom Mazzetti, you've been reporting on this as well. You've heard now our exclusive interview with holid-. What is your reaction to what he's told us and how important is it that this has been filed in the United States and as he said, let's come out into the bubbly and resolve it like men. Yeah I think stepping back a second and realizing the significance of the job family coming forward a publicly with these allegations and also filing the in core. It's extraordinary that as we send our story today, it's really the first time In the name of subtle jewelry, you have a former top Saudi official publicly making these accusations against Crown Prince Mohammad bin Song. the fact that it was filed in American court. Seems to be the purpose seems to be because there are some statutes on the books in the United States. The torture victim protection, act the Alien Tort Statute that do give some degree of standing for foreigners to bring similar to bring such charges. Even. Though. Dr Algebra is Saudi he's and he's living in Canada. They saw a reason to go to federal court for this. Let's be frank. Also having a lawsuit in American federal. Court. Does come with it. This sort of promotional benefit of having press to air out these charges if there's more of an impact, if you file an American court as you see we in so many others wrote about the charges. So as some legal experts I spoke to said. It may be doubtful that this case might actually proceeding core, but its intended effect might also be just to raise awareness to get these issues air out these issues and these allegations. So before I get to the US point and we've obviously read out so many responses from US officials testifying for. Saad Algebra's character his relationship with the United States four I. Get to that. How do you think Mohammed bin Salman, the de facto ruler of Saudi Arabia under a huge amount of international pressure how do you think he's going to react where where do you see this leading? Well. It'll be interesting to see how the Saudi government response. Obviously they. Were hoping to get past Jamal. Kashogi horror. And they're the role of the Saudi government in it. And Crowds Mohammed clearly has been trying to move past it and You know go past this period of really being an international pariah because of that I'm having this now come up does create this atmosphere again. Now we should say that The Times and others have reported that the Jamal Shoji episode was just one part of a broader campaign. By crown, Prince Mohammad to crackdown on dissent sometimes in a ruthless and very violent way. You have the episodes at the a at the at the Ritz in Riyadh and we an colleague Hubbard and I last year reported about extensive use of torture extensive use of rendition. That Jamal Zhijie was just one part of an as we learn more about Dr, Saad Al Jabri, and his story. We see that perhaps this was all going on at the same time. So your question about Conference Muhanna Bin. Salman. It might be some time before he in Saudi government are able to move past especially of course. If there is change in government in. Washington early next year. If the trump administration president trump were to lose and Joe Biden were to be president you could be sure that the new administration would take a much tougher line on the Saudis. Then the trump administration has. I was GONNA ask you you've seen already. Taking a pretty putting a stake in the ground but but do you think that president trump? Would want to shield Saudis from from this kind of of of a lawsuit right now I guess you know as you say, they brought in the United States because they think perhaps that's a big shield and a big protection, and it also looks like from what we've heard and from the bulk of the case that the main objective. Read through the lines is to get these two children out and to get the family reunited. Do you think that out of court deal to be done on that? Well. So there, there could be certainly and you read the State Department a statement about that was quite strong about about the allegations So there might in be quiet pressure going on by the trump administration to make some kind of deal I mean, they don't have to make A. Day The Saudi government doesn't have to respond to the court allegations anytime soon, according to the legal experts I spoke to it's a fairly Byzantine process where in fact. It before anyone has to proceed. Bill Hamad, himself would have to be physically served with these allegations in other words sort of like you get served as a peanut you have to be done as we served in purpose in person and you know that would only happen probably if he comes to the United States and even if he comes to the united. States. Then he can claim I'm part of a official diplomatic party and therefore I cannot be served these allegations so. It's unclear how immediately this case could proceed INCORP. But as you point out, there is a broader PR problem for the Crown Prince and so separate from what's going on in court. There may be some reason for him to quietly us back channel diplomacy to resolve it and get it out of the news. Can we just move off this from Menton and talk about another story that you and your colleagues had in the newspaper just recently, and that is about the United States government looking very closely to try to figure out what Saudi Arabia might be doing with China to. To process uranium to potentially or move that into some kind of weapons building capacity, how serious is it? What you know about it? That should that we should know? What were reported this week that the US intelligence community is actually two very close examination. Now in recent weeks and months about exactly the extent of China's work with Saudi Arabia on nuclear issues. We don't nobody believes that Saudi Arabia. Is close to getting a nuclear weapon or even has made a decision that it will. That that wants to get one one day. But there's a lot of early work going on with the uranium that between the Chinese. And the Saudis that can be done for a very above board purpose. You can do this kind of Geranium work with the ultimate aim of having a civilian nuclear program, but it's also worked. You can do a necessarily work if you were to one day, want to enrich it to the quality. and to a higher grade in order to make a nuclear weapon, what we know is that Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. Has said publicly if Iran will continue to do nuclear work. Then Saudi Arabia will do the same work that it will keep pace, and if Iran is going to get a weapon Saudi Arabia's GonNa, get a weapon. He said this on sixty minutes two years ago. So he is on record about his intentions vis-a-vis his main enemy Iran. So there's a lot of scrutiny going on It does raise this issue potentially of a double standard. For the trump administration, which as we know as you has been, so determined to to sanction and beat back any effort by Iran, because of its nuclear program if it sort of looks the other way on Saudi Arabia or does did hold their feet to the fire. Then there's this question of why are they allowing proliferation in the other great power in the Middle East. And we're certainly following this, Mama Sadie, thank you for your reporting and just to say the Saudi energy ministry says in a statement quote categorically denies having built a uranium or facility in the area described by some of the Western officials. Think about your home for a moment. It's where life happens. It's where you build that treehouse. Try that new recipe. It's where you rest and recharge work and play. You expect a lot out of it, and that's why homeadvisor is committed to keeping your home up and running no matter what they match you with pros in your area pros who can get your home projects done right from unexpected jobs like. Appliance repairs clogged gutters, leaky faucets to projects who actually look forward to like creating your very own backyard summer retreat are getting that new pool installed whatever it is they're here to help and the homeadvisor APP makes it easy use it to book and pay for more than one hundred projects with just a few taps. Plus if you're looking for some local inspiration, you can see trending tasks in your neighborhood. So whether you need a last minute fix routine home maintenance or an exciting new upgrade homeadvisor is here ready to do everything to ensure everything download the homeadvisor APP and get started today. Thanks so much, and now turning elsewhere in the region to Lebanon with sixteen employees of Beirut's port have now been detained as part of an investigation into the catastrophic explosion that took place on Tuesday more than three hundred, thousand people displaced from their homes at least one, hundred, fifty, four, a dead thousands more wounded. Of course, all these numbers including the fatalities are expected to grow motive was is professor of urban studies at the American University of Beirut and an active critic of the government in Lebanon she and her family were in the city at the time of the blast and she's joining me now from the university, their motor Alpha was thank you very much for joining us again. Tell me briefly how it felt to you where you were when this massive explosion took off. Yeah we I was home working from home because of the pandemic and it felt like it was the civil war or another. Israeli attack all over again we weren't sure what it was an earthquake we ran, and then it was the sequence of events that we're used to. Because we live in an area that's subject to. Two bombs and very much the memory of the civil war you know calling everyone you know trying to get through the lines making sure the kids out okay and then figuring out what happened sadly familiar sequence of a moments. I. Mean. It is really sad because Beirut Lebanon has been under so much pressure for so many decades I mean, he's taking in so many refugees from the Syrian war. It is on the brink of economic collapses, all sorts of governmental mismanagement protests in the streets over the last year or so and now the people seem really angry really fed up in a way that we haven't seen long long time is the government saying anything about what it plans to do in terms of investigations. That the people can take any solace seven. Actually, there's been a few. Measures that are taking things like what you just mentioned people being arrested but people are very very angry because it's not just about a point employees do his job. It's not about a judge who didn't fast enough it six years of this callous behavior and the real question is not an employee. The real question is who appointed the poets employees, the judge and the entire system and structure that has placed us where we are that. We can live for six years with this explosive material in our report and nothing happens. This is who we want to be accountable and it's not just me. Let's everyone I talked to people on the street that academics, France that's family that's articles in the newspapers across the political spectrum. There's a recognition that the real problem is the political system that's in place and the political classes responsible, and this is who we want to be accountable. and. Indeed, one of your lawmakers has said that senior customs officials and officials sought guidance from the Lebanese cords at least six times over this period that this ammonium nitrate was there on how to dispose of it and nothing came of it. Do you trust? I mean you've spoken about how they don't trust really government government to deal with it. Is there any Charles? The president is sort of already said no, but is there any chance that might be enough pressure to bring an international investigation? Do you think that would would help at least? looker experience with international investigations so far has been that they tried their marred with international with intervention political interventions they take an event that store called. It into a regional problem. So I'm not so comfortable that the real solution is an international investigation. The point is to push towards independence of our judiciary. There isn't legal proposition that's been driving for years to move the political, the judiciary system outside the control of the political class. That's our Rian. Hope it's this internal movement, this mobilization that's been happening for so long that. We felt at some point back in. October that it almost happened that we would get an independent judiciary to present truly the interest up the Lebanese people and right now it feels that it's it's not really close to happening where sort of taken several steps backwards with the financial crisis with the covert crisis and everything else that's been happening and this explosion to top it all. Honestly I mean the way you speak in the way we've heard from others it's like how much worse can it get in this city in this country that is born so much over so long here's a woman who speaking about you know whether she might even be able to rebuild. Let's just take a listen. Then God montage. Doing we come to pack some things from our house and take what we could take. We can't go to upper floor because it might fall on us like everyone else it is not just. Everything is out there in front of the whole world enough. Enough lying and. If, you want to cut my words I don't want to curse a lot. They are liars and we wouldn't find people who lie more than they do. I mean Mona. A no-holds-barred now, they are just fed up with the government, and again you talk to us a little bit about the impact I mean everything from overflowing garbage to poison tap water to electricity shortages we've talked about the economic. Virtual collapse. Know I mean, you're a professor there put it in context for us. All. Right. So for me the real context of what's happening now is the order that was set in place at the end of the Lebanese civil war in nine hundred ninety when people were wearing military fatigues and who were proven warlords were taken to the what was called the accord which was supposed is conference where instead of rendering them accountable for the crimes they did they were instead they instead came back with business suits and declared that they will. Rebuild the country since then many voices had have been saying that they need to be rendered accountable for the war crimes they did and that someone who has so many war crimes cannot rebuild the country. I think that's over the last thirty years with had ample proof of what has happened. They have set in place a system that's not only criminal, but they also have waged a war against us the people of Lebanon and they have reached the point where. With this explosion, they're basically killing populations I don't, and there's all sorts of talk about whether it's triggered or not. It's not really important. What's important is that Lebanese officials at multiple levels were capable of leaving so many explosives and not carrying. This is where we are today and in their infighting bringing in the international community to push in this direction or the other they have. We can the Lebanese society to the point that people today are increasingly thinking about. Their food, their survivor Hollywood get money to repair the glass and I. Think it's really important to realize that it's not just an internal issue. Lebanon. SMART with regional forces. But also into a nationalist forces was been under increasing fire woods with twelve hundred sectors of our political scene from support it respective of what happens to them the we'd collateral damage is us. It's mine university that's struggling to survive one of the oldest universities in the region that's always produce some of the best minds. In the region and beyond that today is wondering whether it would be able to go on. Families that were modernizing to build businesses to build their livelihood that today, I wondering what I have enough food to feed my children and it's really important to send this message out that we need. The international community to change course, we need to empower the Lebanese society to which is full of creative energy, vibrant budding minds, and so much desire to see things differently. Had you been with me for the last three days on the streets you would have seen how many young students young women men were just. Taking their brooms at helping people, tape their windows, finding any way to make a difference to rebuild their cities and his sense of ownership that they really want to do it. We need to support this people. Just very recently, we've got about I. Guess Thirty Seconds Left. You know you talk about the solidarity. Do these people feel that they might have to come out onto the streets again and try to protest to to get the kind of government reaction and accountability that you're talking about in that needs to happen I mean it's beyond just independent judiciary. Absolutely, there's a protest that's planned for tomorrow afternoon, and I'm hearing that many many people who were on now really scared of the covert crisis being on the rise and deciding not to participate in saying that they were going to die anyway, they were going to be killed anyway. So they might as well put a mask on and come out to the street tomorrow afternoon. It's so interesting because you've got it there. We've got against racial injustice in the United States all these movements happening onto the cat pandemic as well. We'll keep watching Mona for was at the American University of Beirut. Thank you so much indeed. Now remember the name theranos touted as a revolutionary blood testing start up until he came crashing down and it's Co founder or rather its founder Elizabeth Holmes was charged with fraud in two thousand, eighteen tyler scholes worked at that company before becoming a whistle blower about the technology which didn't actually work in his new podcast thicker than water he tells his side of the story, his Hari Sreenivasan talking to tyler about that, and lessons learned when it comes to the hunt for a covid nineteen vaccine. Christiane. Thanks. Much Tyler. Thanks for joining us. Now for our overseas audience who might not have kept up with the story of their noses. I mean a very thumbnail summary right off the top here. You wanted to build two hundred different tests that you would run off incredibly, very tiny sample of blood. Won't wrong at the company. Well. Where does IT START Looking at what wrong is I I think we I think the ambitions were a little bit too big in the technology wasn't quite there to back it up but really it was just you know it's a story of vision outpacing reality in the idea of doing anything that is central laboratory can do from a single drop of blood in a walgreens or an operating room. We're in a MEDEVAC HELICOPTER ORDINA battlefield isn't amazing vision in Elizabeth was great sign that vision but not so great at actually executing on it and. Really, the technology did not exist to enable it. You're talking about Elizabeth homes, a CEO and your story as you tell it in this podcast is also about how so many of US press included society at large investors wanted to believe that something. So grand was possible was here today but we really Didn't look under the hood until well after. Patients were already affected. Yeah. I mean it was a great story and you know everyone loves a good story. Unfortunately I think people like this story so much that they didn't really question it You know there were. A lot of systems that had fail in order for Theranos to become what it was. Investors. Feel they didn't do their due diligence It's actually pretty astounding. Elizabeth was able to raise hundreds of millions of dollars in not a single investor ever saw on did financial statement. which is pretty mind boggling. they had a partnership with Walgreens and they actually hired an expert in laboratory signs to go to fairness and due diligence on technology and they kind of they won't show what it was. So he went back to Walgreens said, don't do business with these people and they ignored him and did business with them anyway So there were red flags there but people were just blinded by this in story and what did you do with the company mostly at the company I was doing what was called Assay validation where my job was to. Make sure that the tests were safe in working correctly before we tested actual patients and when did you figure out something was off I learned that something was off about four days after I started working there fulltime the biggest red flag at that point was actually seeing the technology in I was expecting some fancy micro fluid technology in some signal transaction method that I had never dreamed of but what it was was just a pipette inside of box on a robotic arm. So it was very rudimentary technology. There was nothing in there that I hadn't seen before. So that was the first known where I kinda wet. What are the consequences of something like their nose not working when it comes to actual patients lives who are Basically looking for information from this test if the test is wrong, What's the consequence? Being the consequences can be pretty wide ranging when I started really raising concerns. It was over a civilised test, which I was convinced did not actually work and we were starting to run that test on real patients. We had made the decision we're going to. We're going to push this. To to production, WE'RE GONNA start running patient samples, and syphilis is a great example of a test where you're told, you don't have it when you actually do. There are really serious health consequences one you can spread it to other people and then to untreated syphilis is is no joke It's one of those diseases where if you catch it early and get treatment, it's really not that big. Of A deal. But if you're told, you don't have in, you go on and live your life and let it grow. It's it's it can be really bad and they were actual patients in Arizona that we're going to walgreens and giving their blood yet they were actual patients who are using this and we were running for HIV, for Hepatitis C I think we had a fertility panel so Yeah, maybe women were told they maybe lost their baby when they hadn't or or maybe they were pregnant when they weren't So there are all kinds of potential. that outcomes I know particularly are tests did not work very well. Now, I remember one instance when I was out there knows where a patient. Tested for potassium in the result was so far out of range at that person should have been dead. So the technician actually called the patients and said, you have to go to the emergency room immediately. And upon retesting, there was nothing wrong with her. Listening to your podcasts at I wondered. You're really describing red flags almost from day one. Obviously, you have the benefit of hindsight now but there are so many moments in the story where I hear you saying we'll let that didn't sound right that doesn't sound right. I I wondered what kept you going back? What is it that made? You want to go back to work. Knowing that you were leaving lab and you're working with equipment that was not performing anywhere close to how it was being sold. Yes. So there were a couple of things. One I was a huge believer in Elizabeth, and it was really hard for me to reconcile the differences between what I was seeing and what it was telling me and it is really strange looking back to to see kind of like the power she had or the insulin she had over the way people including myself you know in this Audible described. Halloween at Theranos where you know at that point, I've been there about two months and I had seen tons of red flags but I still dressed up as Tina for Halloween. Is still drinking the KOOL aid that I wanted it to work I wanted to be part of the vision I wanted to be part of his company. And it's like when when I listened back to that are the audio book or the audible I just kind of like shake my head like man how? Doing still ally sucking up to Elizabeth. Now there were instances. About the culture and the climate at the you're working under. That were a little scary at times. What kind of surveillance, for example, where you under while you were working there what did the employees know about? Who is watching or how they were being watched Yes so most people actually had kinda post it notes. So they would stick over there the camera on their computer because they thought that sunny the president of the company, it was watching people through the web cans. and seeing when people were working or weren't working every door was you know had video minders but that's not all that unusual. But when I did. So there's one part where I smuggle out a stack of emails. and. I didn't want the security cameras to see me walking out stack of papers. So I just put him straight under my shirt. Put My head down and walked out the door Sunday. Taking papers out of the building when did you decide it was time to speak up and and how did you do that? So I started speaking up after I started seeing in many many more red flags and that was probably five to six months later that I actually started raising my concerns. And then you really you went to the press. Megan. You were not a open source for quite some time but. was at a more effective route. To get the government's attention. Yeah. It was absolutely the most effective route. I you know I confronted the the CEO The president, a board member I reached out to the government. None of that did any the only thing that works was talking to a Wall Street Journal reporter. And I think it just comes down to the government has just way too much to look at in you know they. They may not really be aware of what's happening until it appears in the Wall Street Journal, and I also think that our government response to the collective consciousness of people as they should. So when people outraged government should should out. So now you're talking secretly to the Wall Street Journal the Theranos lawyers are after you because they think you're giving trade secrets, your lawyers they're going back and forth you're concerned about being taken to court and sued you can't talk to your friends or your family about this because then that implicates them. During all this in your story, you say, the mental health suffered to such a point that you were contemplating taking your own life. Why just it was it was just so tough. You know I every morning I woke up and just felt like it was the worst day of my life and I was right every morning I woke up and it was again the worst day of my life just simple. We're stay of your life on groundhog day and it was just unrelenting. You know I'd have a court date in I would be fighting to stay out of court. They would finally say we'll give you more time negotiate than they would just set a new court date. So there was constantly just. This kicking the can just a little bit further down the road about win. I'm going to have to go to court and I knew that when I did go to court I would be spending a fortune. I mean, we're talking a a good case scenario would be to spend two million dollars. Awesome. Spent much more than that You Know My dad's a high school biology teacher, my mom's nurse So they were going to sell their house to pay for by legal sees me feeling guilty about that. Yeah Oh. Yeah. Jailing totally guilty about that because they were begging me not to let that happen. They just said give fairness whatever it is. They want and they didn't really know the specifics of what was happening. They just said whatever it is. They want give it to them. Don't. Make US sell our house. So you can keep fighting this fight. It's not your fight. Is Not your responsibility and I totally understood where they were coming from. But you know I'm made the decision in actually again, listening back and looking back it's It's tough because you know I made the decision that I was willing to make Inc -rupt my my parents so continued fighting this fight. which is. If thinks that turned out differently you know it would look really stupid. It would be very selfish in analog as I just got. Things turned out as low as they did, and now people look back and say, hey, what hero but easily could have on the other way your grandfather George Shultz he played what role in this. My grandfather was on the board of Directors I. I met Lisbeth in my grandfather's living room. When I was a junior at Stanford, your grandfather happens to be somebody who served three different cabinet positions He's Kind of steamed in the in the circles of diplomacy. and. You keep talking about how George Shultz. Seemed to be picking. The version of reality that Elizabeth Holmes was presenting to him versus you his grandson WHO's saying Hey, there's something wrong here. Yeah. That's true. I mean over and over and over there were instances where he could've taken my side over Elizabeth in every single time he shows to defend Elizabeth over me. And? Eventually I got to appoint Rogers thought you know I have to not worry about him in just worry about myself. I can't stop making decisions with him in mind at all I just gotTa worry about me. If she is chosen to. Stick with Elizabeth he's Keegan. With it. I'm GonNa move on what is it about Elizabeth that people seem to believe a want to believe especially people who grandfather? Yeah. It's it's a tough question to really answer. Funny when Hbo Documentary Aired are premiered at Sundance right afterwards I went wash documentary about Harvey Weinstein and you hear people describe Harvey as very charismatic person who you are just drawn to, and you want to be year round and you'll get now and you think how could anyone ever think is person was charming and charismatic in that's kind of the same feeling that I had towards Elizabeth. It's really hard to describe exactly what it was but in part it was you know her her big blue eyes kind of locked you end she had a very deep voice almost lulled you into some kind of hypnosis in at the time I think both of those attributes pretty charismatic. The Noun. People look back on it. is they how you ever think she was scared that had that really weird voice in psychopath is so it's weird how interpretations of character traits or traits. Change, once you know the truth about somebody. theranos. Elizabeth homes and Sunny. Malani are still facing criminal charges. Their court date could be next year because of the corona virus delaying things. What do you hope for at the end of that process? I just hope that it happens I. Hope that it happened sooner rather than later I'm ready for this over As, for like my hopes of outcomes I. Know I honestly don't think all that much about it and. But unfortunately, I'm afraid that Elizabeth is going to walk away from this still being a multimillionaire. COBB I. I don't know that's just kind of a sad realization mean. Like I feel like. Deserves to have a conversation with her parents were her parents have to sell their house to pay for her legal fees that's not going to happen I feel like this is going to end. And She'll probably walk away multi-millionaire one way or another to what's the what's the cautionary tale here? What should we be able to learn from what happened at Theranos and apply towards how we are looking at? Either the diagnostic equipment that's coming around for Covid, or for the tests or even for the vaccine I think the the key thing is to do due diligence. We have to verify that these things actually work before report hundreds of millions of dollars into them. and that's really what it comes down to and Elizabeth, was really good at making sure people didn't look too closely where is government oversight comes to the amounts money that we are investing in lots of different companies to try to help provide a vaccine for the corona virus in to make sure that that vaccine gets to everyone and do you think that a lot of the conditions that allowed there s to thrive are pretty prevalent today in this endemic there's a lot of stimulus money out there a lot of. Money from investors or from the government, the important diagnostics, vaccines and therapies, and there's really only so much regulators can do on. So I do think it is a great time to commit fraud if it's something you're looking to do. and you know my my expertise is really diagnostics not in the vaccine. So you on the diagnostics side. There were a lot of stumbling blocks early on with the diagnostics, the the FDA trying to decrease regulations to allow good products to come into the market. But then I realized that there were a lot of bad products out in the market. So on the FDA has really cracked down on companies that weren't offering quality products. and. So I actually do you have to give credit to the FDA or being as flexible as they've been? You know they started out probably too lenient in now I think we're in a much better place. Right Tyler Schultz. The audible is called a thicker than water. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. And it really is an incredible story and what a valuable whistleblower that was, and finally it is one of the hottest days on record here in London. But in the Arctic British, scientists have made an exciting discovery. They found this week eleven. New Colonies of Emperor Penguins have been spotted from space after researchers captured bird droppings on these satellite images, which means there are nearly twenty percent more per colonies on the continent than previously thought it is great news but conservationists worn dangerous levels of climate change continue to affect the region. And that's it for now. Thanks thanks for watching and goodbye from London. You. Expect a lot from your home. It's where life happens. It's where you have birthday parties, movie nights where you rest and recharge work and play. And at home advisor keeping your home up and running is what we're all about. Whether you need to repair overloaded appliance are built a summertime backyard retreat use the HOMEADVISOR APP to find a local to get the job done. Right. Whatever you need. They'll do everything to fix your everything down the homeadvisor APP and get started today.

United States Saudi government government Saudi Arabia official Sarah Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salm Saudi embassy Elizabeth Holmes Washington Canada Sarah Omar Saudi Crown Prince Riyadh Omar Bright Guy president Boston The Wall Street Journal Toronto NBS
Episode 17: Omar

Tell Them, I Am

14:38 min | 1 year ago

Episode 17: Omar

"Before we start a quick, reminder that if you haven't had a chance to listen to episodes zero go back and check it out. I promise it'll make this episode a lot better. Okay on with the show. Hey, everyone. It's me, Michelle. And this is tell them I am. I am fluent in. But because I spent some of my childhood whitewashing myself, hashtag immigrant problems Pakistanis, don't assume that I- speaker or they think I probably speak broken accented or. And they're even more shocked. When I bust out the big guns by that. I mean perfectly recited memorized obscure poetry. He said that they hope is in the either Tom bi-ho. Cindy the Humby. Hey, then the sitter. The odd me it at the whole odd meter to be ho- oddly, the Humby, Han odd Measor, Bobby, odd me by AVI. Hey, was sit on the heater Herff Armani get her started. A Hans odd me have Augusta odd meek dominance in the have Augusta was system that he didn't. They. I live for that surprising people being more than they expect me to be a speaker of Ortho. By language is the biggest thing that keeps me routed to my culture. It's the one thing I know I wanna pass on to my kids. I mean, it makes a lot of sense by parents, literally exchanged cassette tapes of like their favorite poetry after their second date. It's in my blood. But my brother was born here and my parents weren't able to teach him or do if you don't work at it. If you don't study and appreciate it, it goes away. My partner doesn't speak or do. And I worry if I'm not speaking at all the time if I'm not connected to it. How can I pass it on? Language is at the heart of what Omar offend him does. He's a rapper and that probably wouldn't be the case if it wasn't for poetry. I'm from a family of four the youngest of four and we immigrated to the United States in nineteen eighty five when I was four however, when we had moved that very same year almost from school was established in Alexandria, right? Outside of DC in Virginia, and it was fully funded by the Saudi government. This was basically a school established by the Saudi embassy in Washington DC. So we had two hours, every day of air bec- and sonic studies in Arabic. So this was a very kind of immersive experience. You know this wasn't just like a little Sunday school thing, like we really had to study airbag every day. And, you know, I, I very quickly realized that poetry was a huge part of this. And part of that process is memorizing reciting poetry, you know, this was an oral culture and language and people didn't write things down. So poetry was how people preserved our stories and then essentially, like our culture was passed down from generation to generation. My family's from Syria, and my mother's from Damascus, you know, one of the longest continuously inhabited cities on planet earth, and there was one poet in particular from Damascus, who was really prominent in the twentieth, century. Consider perhaps one of the most prolific poets of the Arabic speaking world his name was NewsHour. Abani. Fun GD. Yeah. Then over. Jerry. And his poetry was, maybe some of the earliest Arabic poetry, that I remember my mother reciting to me, and that was just a way for her to kind of, I mean, a, get me, exposed to the language and to understand how beautiful the poetic aspects of it are. But then also to really give me a sense of what life was like for her growing up in Damascus, so that I could kind of feel more connection to, to her birthplace. In the school that I had gone to we didn't necessarily study his poetry, that often, because it was considered sort of racy, you know, whether it was political or sexual, or whatever it just wasn't something that Muslim school was going to be introducing to kids. Vani was like really most known for early on in his life for this sort of love poetry and flirtatious sort of poetry, that described relationships and even perhaps sex and sexuality in this part of the world that, you know, there was so much like shame attached to it. You got a lot of fame or infamy, because of that early on and my mom talks about all these young girls, finding over news out and his poetry, but he was also known for some pretty sharp critical political poetry. And sometimes even got him banned certain countries, and he spoke pretty adamantly about liberation about freedom about dictatorship and all these things. So while, you know, you say his name now, people immediately think of the, the love poetry to me. I was always aware of the fact that there was this other aspect of his work. Well, yeah. A watchman. I'll see you son. Cabanis health started to sorta deteriorate and he ended up passing away, April of nineteen ninety eight. Georgetown university. They decided to put on an event to sort of celebrate his life and his work. There were going to be many important figures their masters and professors and students who are interested in his work, and it was sort of open to the public, and I don't know if my mom volunteered me. But basically, I was expected to go there and to recite cosc- domestically other democrat poem. This poem and particular, just kind of encapsulates so much for people from Damascus for people who kind of feel just on a deeper level. You know, and are open about their emotions and being vulnerable. The very first few lines had he d medical headed Neo blow by that Hobie, which means this is Damascus. And this is the glass of booze verily. I love and some loves can kill you. So he opens the poem talking about this very kind of beautiful, and gut wrenching sort of love that he has for the city that he grew up in. And you know, that's something that I think a lot of people can relate to, you know, you love hate relationship. You have with the place that you sort of grew up in. But I think for him the pain was more, so about maybe might have been in at a time when he was sort of not welcomed back because of some of the critiques that he'd offered in his poetry. And one line in their thous- really interesting. He says, come in dementia. Tyn bat, a salvia had Dell as to how him so how many young Damascene girls sold their last bracelets to get a glimpse of my poetry. My poetic writings. I just think that's amazing. Because to me, it's kind of somebody bragging about their latest mix tape, and how much girls are like eleven or something, you know. So I think the event opened up with different people getting up and speaking, whether they were like local dignitaries or professors probably both got up and said, if you were about his life, some people recited, as poetry talked about the impact of his work on the language and on the world, and then I had to get up and do this poem. And at that point, I witnessed a handful of people men and women get up and recite his work so passionately in so much clearer. And, you know, just basically better than anything I could ever do. I was fifteen and, you know, at that point had memorized it, but I'd never performed it in front of, you know, people like that. So, yeah, I mean, needless to say, I was pretty, pretty nervous and had, like a black suit on, like a little orange tie. I think and I looked really fresh. And tried my best to be as dignified and posture as possible in front of everybody. But, you know, at the end of the day, my mom was there, and that gave me a sense of, I guess, comfort. And, and I got up and I did my thing. L to see that. Having too much. In. I think I stumbled through a few words here and there, but at the end of the dad, did it how meant to share. Shedding. The rest of the pieces. When I got off the stage. I remember feeling like relief like that's done. You know, I'll probably sweating majorly under my little oversized black suit that we probably got marshalls or something. But. I felt good you know. And again like I sat down. I think my mom was like good job, good job. But, you know, there was this part in this part in that part that you probably could've done a little bit. But good jobs, you like patted me on my back. This is my mom is like she's always critical with us. But, like when I'm not there. She's like super complimentary about me, in my work, and everything and super proud. But, you know, that's how she kind of kept us on our toes. I guess. So after I was done motor, she'd got up our motor sheet is news, Betty's younger, brother, and he started to speak about his brother, and he was he was winging it like he didn't have a speech written, and he was doing that for probably fifteen twenty minutes. And then kind of towards the end of his speech, he said, look at how impactful my brother's work has been this evening, we've had ambassadors. And professors recite as poetry people from my generation people from a generation below us. And then even this little rug over here and he kinda points at me. He said, ruinously, which is like, I guess you kinda say it's kind of, you know. That was really important to me because it not only validated what I had done in made me feel better. It also reminded me and showed me, I guess that, you know, when art comes from an honest place art is written from the deepest sources of emotion and truth, in person, it has the ability to resonate across time and space far beyond the life experience of that, that person. This particular fascinating because he wrote it like it's probably almost thirty years ago. Now. And at the same time, it's the started to mean different things as the years have gone by, you know, when you look at what's been happening in and around, Damascus in terms of just the politics, and then obviously, that the war different lines in it start to stick out and carry different weight. There's also on a personal level. There's a line in this poem where he talks about. How many fathers long for sweep daughter's face? Cavo. And, you know, for all the years that I've been reciting this poem, certainly when I was in high school in college. But then, you know after that, as I translated in turn it into a hip hop song that a lot of my fans and followers know and appreciate that line was just something that kinda ran through but three months ago, we were blessed with a little baby girl at said, I'm and now in recited, it's like hard to keep the tears down because it's like my gosh. It. It cuts so much deeper. Now. So you can learn more about O'Meara on Spotify Twitter and Instagram at offend them. Thank you so much for listening to tell them. I am. I m Michel, this episode of tell the miam- was sound designed by James Kim, and written by me, and James Kim, Mary Naf is my producer and don't tell James can, but she can rap. And he cannot. Arwa next is the podcast boss here at KABC. And she is also our editor is she the best. Yes, she is Valentina Rivera and Sean Corey Campbell. Our engineers are tile. Art is by our talented designer Stephanie craft are beautiful music is by David Leonard, you can find incredible stray Sion's of all of our guests as the episode's release, thank you so much to Atma for those, you should really see them. Just go to KPCC dot org slash tell them or follow me on Instagram or Twitter at me. She usa. We will be back tomorrow with another story.

Damascus Michelle James Kim Tom bi-ho Virginia Cindy Humby Augusta Saudi government United States Herff Armani Georgetown university Syria Washington DC Saudi embassy Twitter Alexandria Bobby Omar partner
A prominent Saudi activist's detention and sudden silence

Front Burner

27:18 min | 5 months ago

A prominent Saudi activist's detention and sudden silence

"Hi. I'm Dr Brian Goldman. If you haven't heard my new podcast, the dose, this is the perfect time to subscribe. Each, we answer your most pressing health related questions, and right now we know you're grappling with covid nineteen. On those. We bring in top experts to answer your questions about the corona virus and post some of our own get the latest evidence in a way that's easy to understand by subscribing to the dose. It's your guide to getting through this difficult time. You can find the dose wherever you get your podcast. This is a CBC podcast. In two thousand, fourteen video which went viral around the world, a young Saudi woman in big sunglasses and a loose black headscarf is driving a car. She Sang I'm going to cross the Saudi border. I'm driving a car that I own and I have a US driver's license. Attempting to continue the women's right to drive campaign. Let's see what happens. Her name is lodging of up little. She's a Saudi women's rights, activists who studied in Canada which she did, there seems so innocent, but Jane was arrested in prison for seventy three days for that drive. That's because back, then women were not allowed to drive in Saudi Arabia first day I was charged with. Driving as a woman, and then the charge disappeared few weeks. Later, I was charged with inciting public opinion. which was translated later on into terrorist charges, she was released from jail, but then in two thousand and eighteen less than a month before the ban on women driving was officially lifted in the kingdom. She was detained again along with nine other prominent women's rights, activists, Prince, Mohammad Bin, Salman introduced aggressive reforms in the country that this was announced. Royal Decree has been issued Audio Arabia. Giving women. The right to drive when Saudi women are finally permitted to drive for the first time. Those who did the most to advocate for the cause will be behind bars. Louisiana has been in prison ever since she's been allowed a weekly visit and then once the pandemic hit, it was a weekly phone call, but it's been seven weeks. Now, since her family has been able to reach her her brother relieved lives in Toronto says, it's been torture away to You know who torture psychologically, and that is the reason the. CBC Vancouver Reporter Michelle. Google has been falling this story since Lucian was detained two years ago. Today, we'll get to know Jane. Would her continued detention says about the struggle to reform women's rights and Saudi? Arabia. And how silence speaks volumes? I'm Shepard. This is front burner. High Michelle. Thanks for joining us. Hi there. When did you first hear about Luigino I understand she'd been a student at ub see, and that was the same time when you were there as well. Yes. A she got a degree in. French. From ABC. She was there from two thousand, nine to twenty fourteen. I also graduated in two thousand fourteen and I never got the chance to meet her. But We had some kind of people in our circles in in common. So that was how. How know when she was detained my social media of people I knew in Vancouver here where we're posting about it and having spoken to a lot of her professors and friends that be she was described as you know, the kind of student that was super engaged in class. The kind of person that was going to office hours. The kind of person that was always asking questions was involved in a million clubs. To Vancouver, and then said I wanNA try skydiving, and that's the kind of person. She is I, know some from some of your past reporting people described as having this real charisma about her. She was kind of this activist even before she started become well known as an activist. Yes. People her as having this really kind of magnetic personality and one professor of Hers Said and I think this is really visible even in photos and videos of her. That kind of has the spark in Harare and and You can really just get a sense that this was someone that was had a lot of determination and a big personality who should know that she has enormous support all around the world who admire not just the causes she's fighting for and her determination. But how gutsy she is and she knew the consequences of doing this, she was not naive about taking on some of these issues, and so there's something incredibly admirable about this woman and. She got involved in these issues becoming a civil rights activists particularly about Saudi Arabia. So having spoken to her brother will lead who is in Toronto. He says that the family spent quite a bit of time in France growing up. So all the children were kind of exposed to a lot of a lot of different cultures I think this is something that is also echoed in the Arab spring is this theme of young people in the East who had access to the Internet? We're seeing other styles of living lifestyles that people abroad were having and starting to question why do we not have the same opportunities? By asking questions like why women? To? Try. and. Then when she grew up and got the advantage to come to Canada. Saw The the movement on social media in Saudi. Arabia. So she thought that that's A good time to to the end. But he also said that their family you know, especially, their mother was the kind of person who really pushed all the children to really pursue what they believed in really fight for what they believed in, and that's how you know women's rights. Kind of became You know she had made that decision even when she was here, you BBC she had made that decision that after graduating. She was going to go back to Saudi Arabia and fight for women's rights, and she made that very clear to her friends and her professors in Vancouver. We all agree on. You know women not allowed to drive wasn't making sense to to us. And but we were not odds brave I game to take action I in this matter, and again was actually the one was. Spearheading that that movement in a lot of Canadians probably would recognize photos of her from the news. She's been nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. She's been on. Time. Magazine's one hundred list. She's been photographed with Meghan Markle, but can you give us a sense of how well known she is throughout the? Middle. East. She's very well known. Her face has kind of come and I think there's a couple of specific photos of her that. I can think of that have just been everywhere. Those photos have really become symbolic of women's rights in Saudi Arabia. You cannot separate Lucina Hustle and that fight even just last week. There was a protest in front of the Saudi Embassy in Washington DC where people had posters of her face, and how was she fell inside? Saudi. Saudi Arabia. It's really difficult to tell. She definitely is a polarizing figure the example. I use it every time I write one of these stories about her and I. Posted on my twitter a wake up to two, hundred, three, hundred or more notifications. The next morning of accounts from Saudi Arabia who are saying this person's a traitor. This is you know the story isn't true. It's difficult to know whether those accounts are bought. or if they're real, but there is definitely a very concerted campaign to discredit her and portrayed her as a traitor that does not mean, she doesn't have support in Saudi Arabia but she definitely is You know she's this very polarizing kind of galvanizing figure within the Kingdom because of what he represents. It's promised by the government. Then they promised us that we are actually protected, and we have the right to express ourselves freely without be condemned or center della whatever. But in practice, it's not there. Let's go back to that clip. We played off the top. It's from two dozen fourteen. When at twenty, five years old Lou Jane drives herself from the United Arab Emirates to try and cross the border into Saudi Arabia and she live streams at. On a seventy. And then as we know, she ends up being detained for that for seventy three days. Do. You think she knew at the time that she'd be arrested I think she absolutely knew I think that was her intention going into it. And? I. Think. That's what I find. So amazing about that clip is she has this moment where she says an Arabic Menchu facade. So she says, you know, let's let's see what's going to happen and that's kind of her tone. I just find it quite. Impressive that such a young person would kind of go in with this cavalier attitude. But also very much aware. You know very aware of the seriousness of what she's doing that she's GonNa end up detained. I, think that is why it went so viral and that was why that kind of stunt got her this massive spotlight because it was so brazen and she went in with such kind of. gusto encourage for such a young person. And it's remarkable that even after that detention in November, I guess was two thousand and fifteen. She decides to run as a candidate in municipal elections. and. This is the first time that Saudi women can vote or run. But that's pretty ambitious for a twenty six year old. WHO's just a few months out of prison. Why do you think she? She did that. All in interviews at the time, she said that she was doing it to raise awareness I applied as a candidate to just increase the number of foreign participation because. Often one week and a half the outcome was very low and very disappointing. So I decided to take part in it. She said, she didn't in any way expect that she would win, but it was just you know we need to have as many women as possible on this ballot. So she you know her name did not appear on the ballot. She appealed it and she basically launched a massive social media campaign to get her name on the ballot and her name was re added and sheep said, I basically annoyed them and was just so loud and would not let this slide that they were forced to put my name back on this ballot when I announced the comeback. Almost unfair for the other one because I'm already known in the country and my tweet got about nine hundred zero tweets and almost half a million. So it we want our voices to count. We ought of the society and we are actually running it truly. Can You understand even on the day of voting her name despite all of this still wasn't on the ballot. And I think that speaks to You know what you're kind of dealing with it in Saudi Arabia, and you know that is also echoed in the lack of transparency around why she's in jail today. I guess, it also speaks to her power though and the the fear that the kingdom has of her influence to. That's something I find. So interesting that you know I'm just reporter sitting in Vancouver writing these stories and just having a Canadian journalist reporting on the fact that she's detained is enough for. All of these twitter accounts to try to discredit this information and you know, why is there so much fear of this, this one woman. Who? Host of ideas in this age of Click Bait and on much shouting ideas is a meeting ground people who want to deepen their understanding of the world. Join me as we crack, open a concept to see how it plays out over place and time, and how it matters today from the rise of authoritarian to the history of cult movies. No idea is off limits. Ideas is on the CBC. Listen up or wherever you find your podcasts. I'm Dr Hillary McBride. Let me take you our microphones rarely go. Into my therapy office. It's where my clients hurt. He'll and ultimately thrive. You're going to hear private conversations that we rarely ever have with ourselves. Let alone share with others. Welcome to other people's problems. Maybe. Along the way, you'll discover that other people's problems are a lot like your own. Season Three's out now subscribe on, CBC listen or wherever. You get your podcasts. So in two thousand, Seventeen Lujan is still campaigning for women's rights and she's briefly detained again that year and then released, but I want to out here because at this time, there's a significant power shift taking place in the country. This is the story of a Saudi millennial who's progressive yet autocratic tendencies are sending shockwaves through the entire region spent the last few years being effectively tutored by his father, the king, he is a military shot as with a meteoric rise, and that's the rise of Crown Prince Mohammad Bin, Salman, whose generally seen to be defacto ruler of the Kingdom. Can you remind us what commitment he makes around women's rights at that time. So, when MBA says people like to abbreviate his name when he came in, he really promised that he was going to be a reformer and that he was going to eat a lot of these restrictions on women's freedoms in the kingdom including. Women's right to drive and also guardianship laws in the country, and there is a kind of a massive campaign where he spoke all these western journalists and all these profiles were written of him. Sort of saying is this the man that is really going to reform Saudi Arabia after you know decades of these, very, very strict rules. It was actually quite a remember at that time. It was. It was quite a. A PR tour, and there were many glowing profiles in the Western media of him. Lifted the ban on women driving reintroduced, public entertainment, and the power of the unpopular religious police. He would describe himself as the first Saudi leader of this stature raised in the Internet age and someone who grew up playing video games. Last year has been going on the world almost embraced by leaders around the world understandably welcoming the. The. Idea of reform in Saudi Arabia, we're people in the Middle East in particular Saudi Arabia feeling the same way. I think that it was interesting at the time to observe that the West was very I mean Western media again, as you said, all these glowing profiles and I think that people in the Middle East specifically in Saudi Arabia where a little bit more skeptical, you know maybe there is some cautious. Cautious optimism and some hope that that things could change for people who who wanted that. But I don't think that anyone saw the rise of NBS within Saudi and assumed that, okay. We're going to become a western democracy within five years. I think there is a lot of skepticism about him. He needs probably to focus a little bit more on what the people want instead of what he sees a potential and. Developed Saudi and to to say that his government is. Represents, the people. It's not quite accurate. And then back to losing we get to early two, thousand and eighteen, and she's actually back in school at in the United Arab Emirates focusing on her studies and I understand she was detained at that point by the UAE deported to Saudi Arabia, she's released, but then in May two, thousand, eighteen, just a month before the driving ban is actually set to be lifted. One of 'EM BE SS reforms. Jane nine other women activists are arrested and imprisoned a maximum security prison. What were they charged with? So they were charged with A. To stabilize the country using foreign funds and creating a kind of terrorist cell. Now, if that sounds vague, it's because it is I have never been able to get any more information about what the foreign funding was. That has since been changed to communicating with foreign journalists and attempting to apply for a job at the United Nations. Those are the updated charges. So, very, very strange circumstances, and it should also be noted again that this was mere weeks before Saudi was set to lift its ban on women driving, which was exactly what these women had spent years and years advocating for. That's confusing. Part of the the narrative that the Saudi government is putting forward. What if they said about losing case? You know they have said very little. Very very difficult for the family to get any information. But sort of the sense of the timing of of how that happened was s kind of wanting to send this message that. Wild, these women had been advocating for this, the right to drive, and he was going to be implementing it. It was going to be on his terms and so kind of this effort to discredit these women so that it wouldn't seem like he was bringing in these reforms because of them, you understand the criticism. Why give women the freedom to drive and then imprison one of the most high profile women who fought for the right to drive. It must add up the issue has nothing to do with that. There are laws in Saudi Arabia that must be respected whether or not. We agree with them whether I personally agree with them or not, and I understand you've. You've you've stayed close with their family. You've you've spoken with them during her detention and that Amnesty International report that was released last year allege that they were being tortured in prison and allowed to visit her after four months of detention said, they saw signs of brutal mistreatment according to her siblings. The Saudi government denies any abuse kind of almost A. Hey. If this is correct, it is very heinous. Islam forbids torture. Saudi laws forbid torture human conscience forbids torture, and I will personally follow up on this matter. You will personally follow up on it realistic without a doubt what did her family about this So very, you know disturbing details. That Levin and others were you know suffered electrocution flogging sexual assault even sort of psychological torture of. Lucia in would be in solitary confinement in the dark for days, and suddenly you know a group of men would burst into her room and start yelling in her face. Tell us more what you've learned through your parents in recent months. Yes. Sure. They take her to another place where they. Torture her and I say, Turtur, her the are having fun. The are laughing at her, they attach her hands and lakes and they electrocute. The good thing is the family has said that torture has ceased to. That is no longer something that that she is suffering. But. Obviously, it's been very difficult for them and actually the family in the initial months of this story, we're not talking to media said silence. It's the best protection for her because you know if we speak we my. Complicate her case upon realizing that. That was not the case they decided. You know what we are going to start speaking out and it was then that the family released started speaking to journalists and. Telling the world, what was happening to their their daughter and their sister if I lose my sister. About what else can I lose? So I said. My silence didn't protect her my silence. The worst thing happened to her when I was silence. So I decided to speak up. I remember when he reports at one point saying that the family had told you that she was actually offered a deal at one point to be released from prison. What did she do and what can you tell me about that deal? Yeah. So this was when she had already been detained for fourteen months. So you know already a significant amount of time in these difficult conditions and she was offered a deal where if she signed a document that said, I have not been tortured in prison, she would be released and she initially said, yes, she initially said I will sign this paper I will be able to get out. And then they changed the deal they said, okay. Now you have to make a video statement, look into the camera and say, I did not suffer torture or sexual assault, and that was a step too far for her. She took the paper. This is what her brother told me. She took the paper, she ripped it in half. She threw the papers in their face and she said no, and you know she still in jail. Now, how did her family feel about that choice? Was Interesting speaking to a lead. He told me that it was difficult for the family. People had mixed reactions. You know some people kind of said, you know if you've gone on Cameron said, this everyone of would have known it was ally. So why not just kind of get out too so that you can live your life I mean, remind we have to remember. This is a very young woman she. She was thirty years old when this happened, she has her life ahead of her and she's she's been in jail for over two years. So the the family was kind of divided just because it kind of felt for a second like maybe she was going to get out. But at the end of the day, they said that they support her no matter. What will. She would be fine and she would be. One day, that's that's for sure. This is my mission in life. And I'll happy up being committed to it and this is. Unconditional. Love for my sister. I cannot. I can't let her down on this matter and We're GONNA do whatever it takes to to get out of jail. So. We know Louvain is in prison awaiting trial that has now been delayed indefinitely due to the pandemic. But I'm wondering if you can give us a sense of what type of impact she's had and the other activists on women's rights in Saudi Arabia and continue to even in their silence now. Think it's important to note that there you know there have been reforms in Saudi Arabia over the past months over the past year or so. But I think the case of Lujan and other activists has really kind of brought home. The reality that while you know in Western media, it's very easy for us to cover these reforms at with very positive light and say women are getting more rights in Saudi Arabia. It's kind of a reminder that at the end of the day freedom of speech and activism are not. Tolerated in the kingdom and I think more than I think Jane has just become so synonymous with the movement and I think it's kind of incredible that we have not heard her voice in over two years. We have not seen a new photo of her for two years and yet the movement in support of her is has not slowed down briefly, just kind of speaks to the power. She wields despite the fact that she has not been able to use her own voice for over two years I think she has become. A symbol for You know we appreciate in simple for women's rights. They saw her sacrifice. She just sacrificed her own privilege for the sake of greater women's rights in Saudi. Arabia and people appreciated. and. What's it been like? Michelle for her family now that even the phone calls for the last seven weeks have stopped. It has been very, very difficult for the family while the called it psychological torture. He said every day, he wakes up and things of his sister and It's also very difficult because the family is has been placed under a travel ban and the family members that are in Saudi. Arabia cannot leave Saudi, the family members that are outside of Saudi Arabia cannot travel to Saudi because then they won't be able leave, and so it's just been an incredibly difficult situation for the. Family. And what do they think may have happened her in the last few weeks. You know they, they don't know Walid's speculation as that. It is to punish the family by not allowing them to speak with her, not knowing if she's okay. But he says while in the beginning, this situation was incredibly difficult. It's become part of the families DNA and they will never give up hope that she will get out of jail and I. Know you asked we lead what he would say to her. He could right now. What did he tell you? What it was lou jeans birthday last week, and so he said he would wish her a happy birthday on both can. And I hope doing, well, I help you in good health to help you save. I. Know that you're strong and you'RE GONNA. Overcome this. Deal basically, and I hope you get out of jail as soon as possible. It was. Quite, a moment to hear that from him. Michelle. Thanks so much for joining me today free reporting on this. Thank you. Ball. Before, we go some news to catch you up on. It's been a week since devastating explosion in Beirut. And in recent days, there have been protests and widespread anger at the government about what happened. On Monday Lebanese Prime Minister Hassan. Diab said that his entire cabinet with down. He said in part quote today, we follow the will of the people in their demand to hold accountable those responsible for the disaster. We'll have more on this story for you later in the week, but that's all today. I'm Michelle Shepherd, thanks for listening different burn. For more CBC podcasts go. CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

Saudi Arabia Lou Jane Arabia Vancouver Saudi government Michelle Saudi Saudi Embassy Audio Arabia Toronto Canada twitter CBC United Arab Emirates Dr Brian Goldman reporter Google Seventeen Lujan Louisiana
Source: Saudi Intel Officer With Ties To Crown Prince Oversaw Khashoggi Mission; Details Emerge As Saudi's Prepare Their Explanation Of Events; War of Words; Death Toll From Hurricane Michael Rises

Anderson Cooper 360

50:10 min | 2 years ago

Source: Saudi Intel Officer With Ties To Crown Prince Oversaw Khashoggi Mission; Details Emerge As Saudi's Prepare Their Explanation Of Events; War of Words; Death Toll From Hurricane Michael Rises

"Support for Anderson Cooper, three sixty comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by Quicken Loans who were excited to introduce their all new rate shield approval. If you're in the market to buy a home raid shield approval as a real game changer. And here's why first Quicken Loans will lock your rate for up to ninety days while you shop. But here's the crucial part. If rates go up your rate stays the same, but if rates go down, you're right also drops either way you win. It's the kind of thinking you'd expect from America's largest mortgage lender to get started. Go to rocketmortgage dot com slash a. c. three sixty. Take one last ride around the world, the EMMY award winning Anthony boarding parts. Now the final episodes Sundays at nine on CNN. Good evening. We begin tonight with breaking news, new account of the disappearance of US-based Saudi journalist, one involving his killing inside the Saudi consulate in Istanbul at the hands of a team organized by high ranking Saudi intelligence officer with close ties to the inner circle of the kingdom's crown prince Mohammad bin salon. One of our sources described what he or she says, may have been an accidentally lethal injection followed by what is described as an amateur cover up, which included according to another source efforts to keep the Saudi government in the dark it even as chilling and damning as that sounds the question remains is that just a cover story for something far worse and potentially more damaging on the world stage was Jamal Khashoggi murdered by a hit team. And then as a Turkish official told us today, was his body cut into pieces to be disposed of in ways as yet unknown or unrevealed. There are certainly a lot to raise. Suspicion. Remember yesterday CNN saw cleaning crew entered the consulate before Turkish investigators went in remember also the Turkish investigators. Once they got inside said, they found evidence of some kind of cleanup including painted over surfaces and toxic materials, unquote. As you know, the turfs also say they have audio and video evidence of what went down, including because Shukshis death. Also today they released passport scans of seven Saudis. They suspected of being part of an alleged fifteen members, Saudi hit team, which is reported to have included an autopsy specialist with a bone saw any or all of those things argue against this new botched abduction and amateur cover up story, whatever the truth though, and we don't know at this hour, President Trump appears to be ready to cut the Saudis. Plenty of slack ready to go all in with it speaking with the Associated Press today, the president compared the situation to allegations of sexual assault level against supreme court, Justice, brick, Cavanaugh. He said, and I'm quoting here we go again with. You know, you're guilty until proven innocent. I don't like that. We just went through that with just as cavenaugh and he was innocent all the way as far as I'm concerned, he also told the AP that his belief that rogue killers may have been responsible was informed by what he called his feeling when speaking with the Saudi monarch, and here's what he told FOX business news earlier today. Turkey's looking at it very strongly. We're all looking at it together, but Turkey and Saudi Arabia, looking at it very strongly and it depends whether or not the king or the ground prints knew about it. In my opinion, number one, what happened but whether or not they knew about it if they knew about it, that would be bad. If they knew he says, now this new account of constructions disappearance leaves open the possibility. They did not and make that what you will. But as you do remember it, Doug tales neatly toward the president. This morning signaled was a willingness to believe. And remember just yesterday the president said something very similar. I just spoke with the king of Saudi Arabia who denies any knowledge of what the plays with regard to as he said his Saudi Arabian citizen. I've asked any firmly denied that you believe children. Mike Pompeo is leaving literally within an hour or so he's heading to Saudi Arabia. We are going to leave. Nothing uncovered with that being said, the king firmly denied any knowledge of it. He didn't really know. Maybe I don't wanna get into his mind, but it sounded to me like maybe could have been Rogie killers Bruno's. Who knows? He says, row killers, keeping them on. He, he probably does now either through Turkish intelligence assets or other allies, or perhaps by way of our own capabilities, we, the public may not know. But the commander in chief likely does at this point yet even based on our own limited knowledge, the notion of rogue killers or some kind of accidental murder. It doesn't really add up. For starters, the two are contradictory rogue killers and overzealous interrogators. Now, if they were interrogators, they would be there with the kingdom's blessing on the kingdom's orders, presumably is former c. i. director. Michael Hayden told us last night with the knowledge of crown prince NBS as he's known. He is after all the defacto head of an absolute monarchy who's already known to take a direct personal interest in security matters, and this would have been a high profile target. Now, if on the other hand, if as the president speculates shook, she was murdered by what he described. His robe killers were they let into the consulate by rogue members of the security team. Were they given rooms in the Saudi consulate to do the deed by other rogue officials did rogue intelligence officers posted to the consulate. Look the other way while a murder was committed on the premises, while the human being was screaming and perhaps being dismembered being butchered, did a rogue cleaning crew then come in followed by rogue painters were these rogue cleaning crews. This latest account were now being given. It doesn't answer those questions. Frankly, it only adds more questions more now from c. n. n.'s clerks award who help break this new development and joins us from encore with the very latest. So what more have you learned about this operation closer. Well, the most crucial component that we're learning about is the idea of who allegedly directed at three sources telling us this was a former military officer, someone high up in intelligence, someone close to the inner circle of Mohammed bin Salman the crown prince, and I think that's really the crucial point here Anderson. The person who ordered this operation is close to the inner circle of the crown prince. Therefore, it becomes much more difficult to believe that this kind of an operation which is bold and brazen, even by Saudi Arabian standards could be carried out without at least a sort of tacit nod of approval from the top. Now, we're also hearing from these sources that the operation went wrong. One source saying that apparently the operatives tried to tranquilize Mr.. Cooke g they gave him an injection with a tranquilizer. The presumption being that there was some. A reaction or at went wrong. Mr. Cooke, she died. They then made the determination that the best course of action was to carve his body into pieces that we do not yet know what happened to those pieces. And we're also hearing from our sources that the leader of the operation then made the determination that the best course of action was to try to cover it up. We heard that substantiated as well by president or two on himself today saying that, you know, there appeared to be areas that had been newly painted inside the Saudi consulate. You, of course, mentioned the infamous cleaners who arrived before investigators even got on the scene and there's just a broadening sense of skepticism about the ceremony narrative, which, although is not official yet seems to be based on the idea that this was some kind of botched operation rogue operation and that just doesn't dovetail with the reality of the way the Saudi power structure works. The reality is that in order to pull off an operation of. This brazenness you would ideally need to have some approval from the very top Anderson. I mean, the idea that some rogue killers would be able to just waltz into the Saudi consulate, you know, get her a couple of rooms and torture. Somebody ultimately dismembering them and then leave, and then they would clean it up. Others would clean the whole thing that doesn't seem to make much sense. And even the idea of judge just being an interrogation, I can understand why your doctor, you know, doctors are often present during interogations, but I assure jn a friend's ex surgeon with a bone saw that just seems like an odd detail or an odd piece of equipment to bring to something. If you're not planning on song something or somebody up. Indeed. And why would the operation be taking place in the first place? Why would they be interrogating and potentially trying to abduct Jamal Kush shook, Jay from Turkey to Saudi Arabia? If this wasn't something of vital national security importance if they didn't see this or if they didn't see because shook g. as dissident who pose some kind of existential threat, why wouldn't they have gone to the top? Also another important detail coming out from Turkish authorities today Anderson. They shared with CNN passports scans of seven of the men who were part of this operation. Lo and behold, one of them has been seen on state television alongside crown prince, Mohammad bin Salman. Everything seems to be pointing to the idea that the men who are involved with this operation. Indeed, the men who organized it or the man, I should say, organize it had a close relationship were often in close proximity with the man who is the defacto leader already of this country. Cush award appreciate the details. Now to that point, more new reporting on on just how closely connected the alleged killers are to NBS Mohammed bin Salman by extension, the level of deniability he has. It comes in the pages of the New York Times. David Kirkpatrick is on the byline. He's also the author of into the hands of the soldiers, freedom and chaos in Egypt and the Middle East. Dave, what can you tell us about these four suspects and their connections to crown prince Mohammad bin Salman. Whether it's really by suspects of interest here, four of them, we have identified as security men essentially the travel with crown prince Mohammad. So basically, these are members of his security detail who Turks officials have also said, flew into is temporal in participated in what they say is the killing of Jamal for showing in addition, the fifth one is the now famous forensics doctor who brought his bone saw to the to the events in the consulate with a. The notion the president put forward yesterday. This was done by quote, rogue killers. Does that make any sense given what you're learning? I mean, if if the close security personnel, the crown prince are there and you know, the top friends surgeon is shown up with a bone saw flying in on a private jet. That doesn't sound like a rogue operation. It becomes harder and harder to believe because you you when you realized that these guys at least one of these guys. We have photographic evidence that he is with the crown prince again and again in city after city, you know, looking on a like a goon really. And so you have to picture these guys saying, hey boss, I'm going to be gone for a few days. I'm gonna go over to Istanbul. The take care that they would Shoghi. How does he not know it's very hard to believe, and yet that's what we're told the Saudis are going to try to suggest and this forensic doctor. I mean, one typically. I don't think brings friends Dr to an interrogation. Yes. Sometimes people wanna have a doctor president at interrogation, but not one with a bone saw. Yeah, that's yes. You might think, well, you bring along doctor in case the person you're questioning needs medical care, but this doctor specialty is people who are already dead. And in fact there dismemberment so it's, it is stringent as you say. He's a high ranking figure in the Saudi medical establishment. He may have been the foremost forensic specialists in all of Saudi Arabia. So not just any old person in the security services could recruit him from mission like this. Can you just explain what exactly the connections are between these suspects that end and a crown prince having you said that that several of them you've identified as close like a close protection security detail that travels with the crown prince. Yes, that's right. And we've done that in different ways. The most interesting one is mister moot, traveling of who we found in photographs with the crown prince. You know, he's getting on planes with him in Paris and Madrid, and he's in Houston and Boston, and at the United Nations when the crown prince is also there. Interestingly enough, a few years ago, he was listed as a diplomat at the Saudi embassy in London, probably a cover for intelligence operative of some kind of others. We've corroborated in various ways, one through an individual human source of professional in France of knew him as a member of the security detail. Another one from a news reports in Saudi Arabia that described promotion in the Royal guard and a third through a combination of things, including a kind of a database of phone numbers and phone identification. In Saudi Arabia. It's fascinating, David Proctor, I appreciate it. Thank you too. Thanks a lot. Well, now how all this new reporting and all these new developments are being received at the White House. You know, Jim Acosta is there for us tonight. So Jim, the president tweeting and talking about dramatic a lot today, what what's the latest. That's right Anderson and perhaps the most profound thing that happened today in terms of how the the White House was was finding all of this is when the president spoke with the AP earlier this afternoon, and the president was asked about what he thinks in terms of how the Saudis have handled all of this and the president is essentially leaping to the defense of the Saudi kingdom saying, here we go again, in his words, the Associated Press with you're guilty until proven innocent. The president went on to say Anderson during that interview with the a p that he sees the Saudis and sort of the same way he sees report nominee now supreme court Justice, Brad Cavanaugh, who face those allegations of sexual assault. The president essentially saying that the Saudis can relate to Brad Kavanagh. However, you're supposed to make sense of that. I suppose that's up to the viewer, but that's how the president made the comparison. He also said that he spoke with the Saudi of the Saudis earlier today, the Saudi Crown prince and tweeted that this Audis are totally denying all of this. Once again, accepting their denials. The prisoners vote to the crown Princess are rated, do we know much more about about that conversation? And because also searchers, Mike Pompeo was in was in Riyadh today and is heading to encore tomorrow. That's right. The president tweeted that he spoke with the Saudi Crown crown prince Mohammad bin Salman while he was with the secretary of state, Mike Pompeo there in Riyadh in that essentially, what Mohammed bin Salman reiterates Mike Pompeo. He reiterated to the president. The president says, Mohammed bin Salman told him that he had no knowledge of these events that took place at the at the Saudi consulate in Turkey Anderson. What's more is we should point out. Mike Pompeo told reporters according to a readout of of the secretary of state's comments. I think this is interesting. He said during each of today's beatings of Saudi leadership, strongly denied any knowledge of what took place in their consulate Anderson. The secretary of state went on to say, my assessment from these meetings is that there is a serious commitment to determine all the facts and ensure accountability, including accountability for Saudi Arabia's, senior leaders, it it is rather breathtaking that the secretary of state would make that kind of comment Anderson given the fact that the Saudis have. Have been lying about all of this for the past week and a half to two weeks. Keep in mind they were putting out statements Anderson is we've talked about denying any responsibility whatsoever, having any knowledge or any ties to what happened whatsoever that is that is starting to fall apart as a story for the Saudi government and the secretary of state when he was down there appear to be taking their word for it. It is. It is starting to sound like no matter what the Saudi government says, this White House, this administration sort of taking their word for it and Anderson we should point out. That's not why we don't go back to the comparison have on that is not where a lot of Republicans are up on Capitol Hill right now. Lindsey, Graham Senator from South Carolina who was on board with president, Brad Kavanagh is not when it comes to the Saudi government and he wants to see the Saudis give more answers than what they're giving right now. Anderson. Yeah, Jim Acosta priest from the White House. Thanks again, our breaking news raises the question of whether this new account of disappearances a true one or a cover story. And the president's handling this is of course subject unto itself here to talk about all of it is Mike Duran, senior. Rector of the national Security Council under President, George W Bush former c. i. officer, Bob Baier in Washington, Post columnist max boot. Recent author of the new book, the corrosion of conservatism, why I left the right mex-. It seems like there's two separate issues here. There's what the US should do about this, which maybe we'll get to a little bit in a moment, but just in terms of what actually occurred and trying to aspertain what actually occurred. I'm the Saudis, their initial story clearly was not true. They were. They were saying, this man left the the the and they had no knowledge of what happened to him after that. It seems like that that has changed. Do you buy this notion? If if their story is going to be that this was a an interrogation that just went bad that a guy die while being interrogated. Does that make much sense to you? Given what we know thus far about who some of these people involved were? No, I mean, this this cover up doesn't make any sense Anderson. It's clear that the Saudis have been lying like crazy. And they're trying to figure out how to get out of it and they're floating. These lame cover stories claiming it was an interrogation. I got out of control as if it's okay to kidnap and torture a journalist, and that's somehow makes makes it just fine or claiming that it was road killers when we know that the people who are involved as was just being reported or actually very close to the crown prince. I'm b. s the only thing that's more incredible than the Saudi cover stories is the fact that Donald Trump and Mike Pompeo are pretending to believe what the Saudis are saying. I mean, this is the most embarrassing appeasement of a dictator since the Helsinki summit in July Mike. In your opinion, does it make? Is it possible that the crown prince Mohammad bin salon, who is the power who had detained people in the Ritz Carlton, you know, Saudi officials, even some members of the Royal family for some time would not have had knowledge if in fact, some people involved in his close protection detail. One of the top forensic surgeons in the country who's affiliated with the government was involved in this. I would find it unlikely, but I would also like to notice skepticism about everything that we've heard because most of our information about what what happened there is coming from the Turkish security services and Turkey has very bad relations with Saudi Arabia and his crew using this to get gained some advantage over them. I think the the Saudis probably played into their hands in in this regard, but I don't think we know exactly what happened inside the consulate. I, I think that I think that's absolutely true. And and you know, they're the some of the stuff is publishing a pro Turkish government newspaper that reporting about the the the, you know, the the apple watch Bobby discounted that or early on as being probably some sort of cover story for perhaps Turkish intelligence bugging the the consulate, Bob, the reporting from the New York Times, at least several of the suspects were part of the crown prince's entourage. Is there any scenario in European Underwood's the crown prince would know what happened Anderson? No, he runs the country. He runs the police, the ministry of interior, the security services, anybody who's not loyal to him has been removed. They're no separate power centers, including in the national guard. He clearly, I mean, it's almost certain that he ordered this, whether it went wrong or not. We still don't know agree with Mike. But what we do know is the evidence so far that they've produced the pictures of the. Planes arriving, the painting of the consulate, the fifteen that come in the the Saudis have provided no sculpture. Tori evidence to suggest these people were terse as they're claiming. That's just silly. I mean, seriously Anderson. You don't get better evidence than this and for the president to say, it's a rogue operation. I, frankly, he's covering up murder and so's Pompeii when we should worry about that. Because if this goes without any, you know punishment of Saudi Arabia, we're going to see other dictators doing the same thing, whether it's Russia or any other country. Mike, do you think this is covering up murder? I think that other countries are doing things like this. We know what the the Russians did in in in in Britain. And the most important thing for us is to think about what our strategic interests are and where we want this thing to come out in in the end. And I would hate if we rushed in a fit of righteousness and. Took action against Saudi Arabia that that endangered our larger strategic interests in the region. And the number one interest is in my view containing Iran, we've got the sanctions on Iran coming coming due on November. Fourth, we need the Saudis to help us substitute their oil for Iranian oil around the globe. There are massive interests involved here and to rush on the basis of this horrible event. And I don't mean to suggest it isn't horrible and and destabilize Saudi Arabia or imperil our relations with them, I think would be a mistake. You know, actually, what about that? I'm double doubles. Bargains are made all the time in the world of, you know, real politics around the world is this one of those cases where the the larger interests of of our country and Saudi Arabia mandate turning a blind eye? No, we should not sacrifice. Jamal kashogi on the altar of you. Saudi relations. The Trump administration has already made a grave error by giving NBS a young man with very little knowledge and very little judgment and how he conducts fares, basically, a blank check to do whatever he wants, including kidnapping, the prime minister of Lebanon, including bombing Yemen, including blockading cutter, the crown prince's made a lot of mistakes. We need to hold them accountable because it's pretty clear that he was responsible for this operation. And that doesn't mean we're going to break with Saudi Arabia, but remember NBS has only been crowned prince last year. There are a lot of other Princess who could easily take place who are not implicated in this murder. And if Donald Trump does not insist that there is some accountability for this murder of an American resident in American journalists that will send a very grave message to the world at sends a message that the United States is abdicating its moral authority and beat. It actually sends a message a weakness on the part of Donald Trump because he is reinforcing the message that he bullies the week. People like stormy Daniels or Christine, Blasi Ford. But at the same time he. Simple and cowers before the strong, whether it's Kim Jong, honor Vladimir Putin or m b s? That is not a message. The president of the United States should be sending Anderson. I want to pick up this conversation. We gotta take a quick break. We'll also get reaction to the breaking news from Kuchis editor what colleagues and the Washington Post make of the latest reporting and the war. Some pretty ugly words between President Trump and stormy Daniels, which max just re reference would each is now calling the other ahead on three sixty. You know what's not smart job sites that overwhelm you with tons of the wrong resumes, but you know what is smart, ZipRecruiter dot com slash DD see, unlike other job sites, ZipRecruiter doesn't wait for candidates to find you Zip Recruiter finds them for you. It's powerful matching technology scans, thousands of resumes identifies people with the right skills, education, and experience and actively invites them to apply. So you get qualified candidates fast, no more sorting through the wrong resumes. No more waiting for the right candidates to apply. It's no wonder that ZipRecruiter is rated number one by employers in the US. This rating comes from hiring sites on trust pilot with over one thousand reviews. And right now, listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address, ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash d d c. that's ZipRecruiter, dot com. Slash c. ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash DC ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. A breaking news, new account of dramatic Shukshis disappearance and presumed killing three sources familiar with the case, say that it was intended to be a Saudi mission to interrogate impossibly duct him that something went wrong. He died and it was poorly covered up. Now earlier today, CBS news is Earl Burnett, found himself on a flight with Jared Kushner, who reportedly has a close relationship with the Saudi Crown. Prince tried to ask them about Saudi Royal families, denial involvement in cook, she's disappearance and that didn't go well. CBS on. Don't put. Secret service agents blocking Burnitz phone people, Washington Post one answers as well as Jamal cook. She worked joining us for reactions. The breaking news is his editor post global opinions editor, Karen t. Karen doesn't make any sense to you given all this new information, why the United States isn't taking any real action on this yet or why the administration seems to be at least publicly buying Saudi Arabia's version of events here. You know, all we can at least hope for and pushed for here. The post is that the administration take this seriously and the administration pushed their Saudi counterparts advisor Saudi counterparts to give us the truth thing and and to give us the truth as quickly as possible of the reporting that the Saudis suspected ha having ties to cut our and that that may have been why they wanted to interrogate him or at least in part to your knowledge, did he have any ties with cutter. I mean to my knowledge, I, I don't know about that. I think that ultimately sto this is a case of a journalist who all he wanted to do is to write the truth as he saw it who was who went into Saudi consulate and never came back regardless of views. Regardless of ties anything that he wrote, at least with me at the Washington Post was patriotic to Saudi Arabia was evoked a sense of wanting Saudi Arabia to be better was a man who wanted to advise the young Saudi Crown prince. He loved his country as so, you know, reports of of smearing him as some sort of trader, I think is grossly unfair and distracts from the question of what happened to him and what we're demanding from the Saudis as far as answers and truth. And certainly just in terms of, you know what the Saudis have said and may say, I mean, there were, you know, we're this reporting from from several sources that they may say that this was an interrogation gone bad. I mean, even if this, if that becomes a story that they were trying to interrogate him and bring him back to Saudi Arabia, that in itself is just, I mean, even if it's true, it's just startling that they would be grabbing somebody who enters their consulate, interrogating that person with his plan and then trying to bring them back to to Saudi Arabia. Right. I find this notion that that is somehow more acceptable. I find it ridiculous and still, frankly, a bit disgusting. It's still kidnapping. And if we say interrogation, if the interrogation was so violent that it causes death. I mean, that sounds like torture and that's still a flagrant violation of international. Shnell law. And you know, for you know, an interrogation to to have a team to have a bone saw present during an interrogation or to to fly in a team with the an autopsy forensics expert. You know to me doesn't sound like a team that expected to bring back somebody alive. So, but regardless, I think a horrific crime happened to Jamal castrucci and we need answers or fighting like hell here for answers. Okay, on our procedure time. Thank you. Thank you Anderson. I want to go back now to Mike Duran. Bob Baer and max boot Bob. Mike made a, you know, a valid point which is there are, you know, strategic concerns. There are national security concerns. There's a relationship, larger relationship with Saudi Arabia. Max was saying, you know, something has to be done. Where do you stand on this? If if we do essentially, if the US essentially, you know, turns aside and and accepts whatever the Saudis come up with. Is that acceptable? Well, first of all, I agree with Mike Saudi stability should be foremost in our national security interests. If that country went under, it would be a complete disaster for us in the world and the Gulf and everybody else, the Royal family there is no substitute. No one else can govern that country, but worries me is you have a king who's clearly incompetent. If you let his son go ahead with this, he either has. Alzheimer's or as he's got some sort of dementia and his son that doesn't know what he's doing. Resting Lebanese Prime Minister head of state holding it for two weeks. Seizing. His property is a flagrant violation of international law. It's Saudis its way out of their character. So we have two people on the throne who are very, very dangerous. And if I were sitting in the White House, I would find a way to talk the Saudis into getting rid of them. This has happened before in the sixties when it king hit, lost his mind and King Faisal came in and and took over and removed them. And I think frankly, that's one needs to happen now, Mike, what do you think about about that essentially separating, you know, relationship with Saudi Arabia from relationship with NBS? No, I think that history has taught us that it's dangerous for the United States to think that it can micromanage the states of the Middle East, and we start reaching into other countries and saying, who can rule and who can't rule. We're going to get a lot of consequences that that we don't intend. So I would I would counsel caution. I, I would want to find out what exactly happened. And then I would want to try to work with the NBS and the Saudi government to get a more stable policy process and to get more reliable partner. Part of the reason that that that they have become somewhat erotic is that they're in a completely new environment with the rise of Iran all across the all across the region, which was we have to be honest facilitated by the policy of the United States. So we have kind of created this unstable environment around them, and we're not, they're giving them the guiding hand we have in the past. I think we have to understand the broader strategic context here we're not good. No, go ahead. No, I was just gonna ask you under. There's understanding the broader strategic context as my talking about. There's others concerns that if there are no ramifications for this, then then it gives other autocratic rulers kind of encouragement to, you know, kidnap reporters in their consulates in torture people and and the US isn't going to do anything about it. That's exactly right Anderson. Donald Trump has basically given every tyrant on the planet, a license to kill. I mean, just on Sunday on the sixty minutes interview, he was asked about what Putin does which includes trying to kill dissidents in Great Britain and and Donald Trump base. If he said, well, it's not in our country. So you know, he doesn't care. This basically gives a license to the worst elements on the world. And I think is contrary to American interests and I would sight to you. The example of Ronald Reagan who did not look the other way when American allies and the Philippines are El Salvador or South Korea were committing human rights abuses when there was a people power revolution against Marcos and eighty six. Reagan sided. The protesters, and I think that's something we need to keep in mind in the case of Saudi Arabia. We can keep our alliance with Saudi Arabia, but I agree with Bob, I don't. I don't see how NBS stays as crown prince after this erotic reckless and humane behavior. Next boot, Mike Duran, Bob era. Appreciate a good discussion. President Trump did not have anything on his public schedule today. And one of the first tweets of the day was a an attack against Daniels after he judge's decision yesterday dismissed her defamation lawsuit against him. We'll tell you what the president said, what she said and the fallout just ahead. Support for Anderson Cooper, three sixty comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by Quicken Loans. 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Is actions. Additional conditions or exclusions may apply based on Quicken Loans, data in comparison to public data records equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states and MLS consumeraccess dot org. Number thirty thirty. Quick viewer alert this next segment contain some graphic language. So if you have kids in the room, you might ask them to step out for bid. It has to do with the president and stormy Daniels, the woman who claims she had sex with Donald Trump just months after his wife Melania Trump had given birth to their son. The president denies having an affair yesterday, defamation lawsuit against President Trump brought by Daniels in her Turney. My club Nadi was dismissed by federal judge. So early this morning, the president went on the tax over Twitter quote, federal judge throws out stormy Daniels lawsuit versus Trump Trump is entitled to full legal fees. He wrote citing Fox News. He went on great, he continued now I can go after horseface and her third Ray lawyer in the great state of Texas. She will confirm the letter. She signed. She knows nothing about me a total con- presume United States called her horseface. Now, before I tell you how MS Daniels responded, you should not recently released a book in which she details quite graphically her alleged sexual encounter with Mr. Trump. With some very personal descriptions of him without about with that out of the way here goes, she responded, quote, ladies and gentlemen, may I present your president in addition to his shortcomings, he has demonstrated his incompetence hatred of women and lack of control on Twitter again, and perhaps a pension for bestiality game on tiny, happy Tuesday evening. So just tonight, in that interview, the president was asked about the use of his word horseface. He told the AP quote, you can take it any way you want joining me as a former adviser to several presidents who didn't have Twitter, David, Gergen, and USA today columnists Cureton powers. So curious when the prison says, you can take the horse phase comment any way you want. I'm not sure what other way there is to take it other than as an insult, right? It's obviously supposed to be an insult. And I think a lot of people would say, well, he insults a lot of people. He, you know, makes up names for men, you know, our low or or jab or or whatever it is. But I. I think the attacks on women's appearances, which she has a long history of is different, and it's different because men are not as affected by attacks on their appearance because men are not as valued for their appearances as they as women are in our society. And so it's a very, I, it's it's a much more harmful personal attack for a woman to receive that kind of attack. And I think that he knows that and I think that it's particularly humiliating in a way that it isn't for a man. And so you can look at a stormy Daniels and say, well, she doesn't have a horseface. She's actually a beautiful woman, but so what if she did you know that that's the point the point is you don't have to be a beautiful woman, but in in in the the world that Donald Trump lives in, you actually do have to be a beautiful woman. And if you aren't a beautiful woman, then you're not valuable and you don't matter. Dude, I mean, did you ever think you'd see the president United States call the woman whom he allegedly had an affair with horseface. I mean, I, it's called never call anybody calling anybody horseface. I think it's a sad night, embarrassing for the country Anderson. I, we've got this cover up that's emerging with regard to the Saudi situation. And now this, this, this craziness of the yet another insult. I don't know what the totals are, but I think that he is now publicly insulted just about as many women as have accused him of sexual misconduct. It's a close call, which one which which bucket has more people in it, but he continues to do this. I, I agree with Pearson, absolutely. That he goes after looks more than anything else. But he also talks about people's low IQ q. He did that against a minority woman. You know, he talked about people bleeding and where that's coming from, and you know, sort of like what you sort of gasping, you know, you have to encourage people to leave. I, I don't know there's any. This is. Just what where we are as people, I don't know that he's ever going to change we. He is what he is, and it's embarrassing in, but some people still like him because he's got a good economy. I, you know, it's a, it's a very, very odd tradeoff these days. Yeah, I just want to play some of the things that can they Trump has said particularly about about women that some of the David reference. Let's just play this. So you can see there was blood coming out of her eyes blood coming out of her wherever she would not be my first choice that I can tell. You don't know, that would not be my first choice also said about Carly Fiorina, quote, look at that face. Would anyone vote for that retweeted photo comparing how crews to Maloney Trump in an unfavorable way? It's, I mean. P cursing people. It's become normal that this happens and this is what the president United States does, and there are plenty of people, you know, at a rally who laugh and applaud and are right there with it. Women included. Yeah. Yeah. It's typical not normal and but yeah, it's become something that we've become used to hearing. And I think that the reason you see just it's not just men her laughing at it. There are women that are laughing at us because of what I was saying before, I think that this is very ingrained in our consciousness and the way we think about things. The idea that women's highest value comes from the way that they look or the idea that they're not as smart as man. So they have a low I q or if you're a racist person that you believe that a black person has a lower IQ. He is tapping into things that people think and and I and unfortunately people are going to get mad at me for saying that Trump. Reporter Trump supporters, think this way. Well, all I can say is, why are you laughing at this? Why are you supporting this? Because people who find it totally repugnant and recognize it for what it is, don't support him and don't want to be associated with him. Well, there's a basic lack of manners. Yeah, Dave Gergen, Pearson powers, appreciate it. Thank you. That's back to our breaking news on the missing Washington Post columnist President Trump claims. He has no financial interest in Saudi Arabia, no reasons to be sympathetic to them. We'll check out that claim when we come back. You know what's not smart job sites that overwhelm you with tons of the wrong resumes, but you know what is mart? ZipRecruiter dot com slash AC three sixty. Unlike other job sites, ZipRecruiter doesn't wait for candidates to find you. ZipRecruiter finds them for you. It's powerful matching technology scans, thousands of resumes identifies people with the right skills, education and experience for your job and actively invites them to apply. So you get qualified candidates fast, no more sorting through the wrong resumes. No more waiting for the right candidates to apply. It's no wonder that ZipRecruiter is rated number one by employers in the US this rating comes from hiring sites on trust pilot with over a thousand reviews. And right now listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash AC three sixty. That's ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash a. c. three sixty ZipRecruiter dot com. Slash AC three sixty ZipRecruiter the smartest way. Way to hire. Returning to our breaking news on Jamal Shukshis fade in President Trump's complained that the Saudis are being assumed guilty until proven innocent earlier today, the president tweeted about what some have reported a complicating factor in this whole affair. Namely his multimillion dollar financial ties over the years to various Saudi citizens. But here's what the president tweeted quote for the record. I have no financial interest in Saudi Arabia or Russia for that matter. And he's suggestion that I have is just more fake news of which there is plenty. No financial interest in Saudi Arabia is the key line there. What he doesn't mention is the millions he's gotten from more than a handful of Saudis, CNN business and political correspondent Cristina Alexi. Saudi Arabia, and I get along great with all of they buy apartments from me. This spend forty million fifty million my supposed to dislike them. I like them very much Trump's financial ties with the Saudis date back to the nineteen ninety s in nine hundred ninety. One when one of his casino projects was faltering under a mountain of debt, a Saudi prince purchase Trump's two hundred eighty one square foot yacht for the hefty price of twenty million dollars ten years later, public record show Trump sold the forty fifth floor of his Trump world tower in New York to the kingdom of Saudi Arabia for four point, five million dollars in recent years since Trump took office, his hotels have benefited from Saudi business between October twenty sixteen and March twenty seventeen. A Saudi lobbying firm paid Trump's Washington DC hotel more than two hundred seventy thousand dollars for food and accommodations. We don't know really very much about his efforts to open other properties in Saudi Arabia. We don't who is. Earners would have been, we don't who would finance them and we don't know if you could restart them again down the road. Trump's Manhattan hotel on central park, west solids, revenue increase during the first quarter of twenty eighteen in part because of a visit from Saudi Crown prince Mohammad bin Salman according to a letter obtained by the Washington Post in the letter. The hotel's general manager wrote that been so men didn't stay at the hotel himself, but said, due to our close industry relationships, we were able to accommodate many of the accompanying travelers. Of course, the public doesn't know the full extent of Trump's business ties to the kingdom because he is not release his tax returns or other financial information would certainly be very easy for foreign officials or people close to them to drop a whole lot of money without us knowing about it unless or until we see the business records and conceivably tax returns as well. We do know from his 2016 financial disclosure. Trump had one hundred and forty four registered companies with dealings in more than two dozen countries. Eight of them were Saudi related companies. All of those companies have since been dissolved returnable situation as the cries for the president to take action against Saudi Arabia grow louder. Americans are left to wonder what's driving Trump's decisions. Now, of course, the larger political question is, are, is this relationship or these business deals part of the president's consideration when it makes decisions about how to go forward. Christina. What's the Trump organization saying about this Trump's spokesperson responded in a statement to me Anderson saying like many global real estate companies. We have explored opportunities in many markets that said, we don't have any plans for expansion into Saudi Arabia, but Anderson when I pressed further and asked about Saudi purchases of Trump condos or hotels days, I did not get a response Anderson, Christina washy. Appreciate it. Thanks. I want to check in with Chris, what he's working on for prompt time. Chris, all we got good stuff for you tonight. My friend Anderson even you're gonna have to smile for there. It is. So we're gonna be talking about what's going on with Saudi Arabia and the president's disposition toward it that it's like Cavanaugh. He's guilty until proven innocent. Why would he say that? Why would he call a woman horseface what is going on? And of course, the big headline about Donald Trump our president saying that Michael Cohen, his former personal attorney lied what. An interesting position when he has to know Anderson. I'm a command away from playing a tape that proves that he is lying and we'll do that tonight. All right. I'll be listening five minutes from now. Chris. Thanks very much endorsement. Yes, I'm government there. You had me you had me at Hello. Up next more serious stuff that the death toll from hurricane, Michael, it has risen in Florida. I wanna tell you about that just had the very latest from region where more than one hundred and thirty thousand customers are still without power right now. Hello, everyone I'm unleash malaria and the host of the film struck podcast. A show for love is of great cinema on the latest episode. Oscar nominated screenwriter and director Temer Jenkins tells me about her film private life, which is partly based on her own struggles with facility and how it took her some time to see the entertainment value in the story. I had a friend who when I would tell her my stories about what was happening from, you know, like a girlfriend confident. She said, you should write this stuff down and she said, because it would be good material for movie. And I said, I have to. That's never going to happen. Of course, I did. And here I am talking make sure to subscribe and listen on apple podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher, or whatever else you get your podcasts. It's more grim news out of Florida tonight to tell you about a thirty said the death toll there has now reached nineteen as more people continue to be discovered in the wake of hurricane, Michael discovered that dozen of those alone were in bay county, which took the brunt of the storm across four southern states. Twenty nine people are now confirmed dead most of the residents of hard head. Mexico beach haven't yet been able to turn to see what's left of their homes that's going to change tomorrow. Wayne residents are going to be allowed back in more than one hundred thirty. Eight thousand customers are still without power in Florida. 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1077: "Bone Saw"

No Agenda

3:02:45 hr | 2 years ago

1077: "Bone Saw"

"Gore has taken it up to a new level. Adam curry, John devour over fourteen twenty eighteen. This is your award-winning give on Asian media assassination episode, ten seventy seven. This is no agenda parsing the prophets and broadcasting live from the capital of the drone star state here downtown. Awesome. Tejas in the colonial in the morning, everybody I'm not. I'm curry and from northern Silicon Valley where I sit here rating this jeffer- I'm Jesse devora gladdened buzzkill the mon-. Yeah, we're just we're just never going to have that hat. No, no, no, no, it can't be. It is only eleven after the hour. It's not early. I'm hearing it honk, and I think it's going to me. I can hear the honk from Emoryville this porn. They got on these things. But the thing is is that we never mentioned that about four shows ago. This effort came by three hours late after the show is over. Yeah, it was. I can't believe I didn't call the Austin statesman to alert them to this fact. Right up. So there's three or four. Big news deconstruction items. We have the cash actually have the correct, correct pronunciation. Khashoggi situation, formerly known. I'll Shoghi I before you go on with that. A Amy Goodman got so confused with the pronunciation. She would pronounce it two ways. And she, let's say Chris Shoghi is the American pronunciation. Well, are still okay and like kashogi better. I like it too, but our dude name Bahama did send me a note and said, the official pronunciation is Khashoggi. He who was to be. It's impossible. It's okay. I just wanna make sure everyone knows that you're sneezing at to say good, tight every time you say it s a micro aggression man to do. You have a clipper, forgetting confused. You have a clip of her talking about you have a bunch of clips about the kashogi and Herbie talk and given some some spiel. No, I don't have. I didn't make as civic clip. I mean, I, I wouldn't mind diving right into. We'll just call kashogi for Brar show just to make it easy because this is very interesting in so many different ways. And there's so much obvious bull crap out there for example, that they unlocked this guy's apple watch with his finger. Yeah, you don't need fingerprint before we go into that. His finger right there. Yeah, but you but you don't need that to unlock the apple phone. You just don't predict good at shop just finger off anyway. Just for the fun of it now. Yeah, I do have one the longest by have is actually is I thought was very good CNN rap. Of the kashogi story without all the details you're gonna bring in and I'm going to bring in, but it's just and I thought it was an example of a good example of CNN actually doing their job with Nick Robertson who's a pretty good correspondent these walls topped with razor wire, the epicenter of a spiraling crisis that threatens to engulf this whole region. One that is reverberate faubion Turkey. A source with knowledge of the investigation tells CNN that Turkish authorities have shed some of the evidence of Jamal Kushtia murder inside the contract here with their western intelligence allies. In some of those partners have been deeply deeply shocked the brutality before they learned the evidence according to the CNN source by western intelligence includes audiovisual information from inside the building, revealing an assault. A struggle on the moment. Kashogi is life ends on Friday. What appears to have been a Saudi delegation? I should quickly into the building mission, unknown Prince, Faisal one of the kingdoms. Both trusted figures also visiting Turkey in an effort to tamp down tensions according to Reuters. But each new detail makes the task of containing those tensions and the full out across the Middle East more difficult among the many questions still on answered what happened to this fan seen leaving the Saudi consulate soon after Turkish officials, say Kushner, she was killed. Saudi Arabia continues to deny any involvement in Kushtia is disappearance its regional allies stepping up their support, the United Arab Emirates minister for foreign affairs and will go, gosh, tweeting the repercussions of political targeting of Saudi Arabia. Will be dire on those who inflame it Bahrain's foreign minister, how they'd been act. Med complaining Saudi Arabia is the target. Note the search for truth. At the center of it all the culture. It was lost Saturday that the cold. So let in the media sheepishly opening cupboards and doors, but Turkish officials are still waiting for investigators to be given access. And that is why the fate of Jamal Khashoggi is both a mystery and an international crisis. I really liked that clip for a couple of reasons. The seriously the not CNN is being Rishard angles a lot, which always alerts me to a lot of bull crap coming your way actually, say miss. Oh, I'm sorry because I thought you said it was CNN knows this is CNN CNN doesn't you drew MSNBC. Oh, you're right. You're right. So what what was interesting about this clip is when he got to the true importance of this story, which is the political ramifications with Saudi Arabia? The audio went completely dead. There was no background noise. It was a little, you know, dull kind of flat, and then shrike back to a lot of noise and information about how the guy got killed five hoops. And we just bring that in here because that was that was quite these Weirs top with this part, the repercussions political targeting of Saudi Arabia will gone completely dead is just talking about the repercussions on those who inflame it. Bahrain's. Foreign minister highlight been complaining Saudi Arabia is the target note the search for truth. And now back to your brain into of it all. We say at the center at the center of it, all it was lost today. How did it happen? And of course everyone's focused on how did it happen. Apple watch chopped into bits. It's really unimportant. It's really just another often. It's just another dead guy. You know, it's like there's lots of dead people, but. I mean, just I know it's, here's the Amy, good messed up. That's not fair to say, but the political ramifications is what is incredibly interesting, and I just wanna play this clip because it shows that we are from the future. This is Tim Kaine. He's still a Senator, isn't he? Tim Kaine. Yeah, I believe. Yeah. Yeah. The former a presidential running mate for Hillary Clinton NPR calls him in and this is where it gets to do with anything. Why have some questions that might be answered yes or no. And the first has to be he will see intelligence reports. Are you convinced the Saudi government or its operatives assassinated? Dramatic showcase night yet completely convinced, but there's enough corroboration out there that I think the proof is on the Saudis to prove that they did not have anything to do with harming kidnapping or killing Jamal kashogi. The burden of proof is on them. Now that's funny by itself, the burden of proof is on them, but but listen to what he comes up with and the reason for him on NPR liked that. You question that if that certified, I'll throw at some possibility, should the US close that big embassy in Riyadh? Should they closed that big building on Virginia avenue? That's the Saudi embassy should. Should it break off relations? We'll we'll Scott. I, I mean, this is a horrific alleged crime against journalists of our president attacks, journalists enemies of the people, but we need to stand up nicely nicely done, come on, give them some problems for for bringing Trump into be, maybe partly responsible for you know, some embassy workers to want to kill the press. It was. It was good. It was good. It was good, the net it was good for journalists everywhere. Jamal kashogi Virginia resident, and you're right. There are a number of things that we could do. I'll tell you what I focus on the first thing. The Senate did this week. The members of the foreign relations committee on which I said is we sent a letter to the president to trigger his review of whether this treatment of Jamaica Shoghi violate something called the Magnitsky act. Did I not call it? I said you want and actually did. I was I was actually dubious about it personally. Now, listen. Now team can give us a little more front. You know, before this guy's throw this shit out the old Magnitsky act well, and it never gets explained and people go Magnitsky. This is like the Logan act violated the Logan act, Tim Kaine. The knows what these people are talking about is completely out of range. Go on. Tim Kaine is actually going to explain what this means. Magnitsky act allows the White House to put sanctions on individuals if they engage in human rights abuses. When we send the letter at triggers, one hundred twenty day investigative period where the administration has to report back to congress as to whether they're been human rights violation and what they're going to do about it. That's number one number two. So contrary to what normally happens, Tim Kaine gave us a. You know, the background doesn't matter. It's been used on the Russians. It was created for the Russians, but he gave us a pretty good explanation, including the hundred and twenty waiting period and what it triggers. And this is a political move that's being made. And there's two other moves that are being made. We have been in the Senate increasingly concerned about Saudi Arabia and working to potentially cease arms sales to them. We had a vote of Hugh months ago. We're forty seven of us voted to block arms sales to Saudi Arabia because of their mishandling of the civil war in Yemen and the massive humanitarian crisis there. So a second thing that you are likely to see, I think Senator Paul and Murphy have talked about this is additional action to block arms sales President Trump reacted very negatively that the other day you'll see that. And then the final one is US support for the for the Saudis and the UAE on the war in Yemen. I think there's increasingly desire to just cease US support for the war in Yemen, which is a massive humanitarian disaster. Her. So I think before we get into embassy diplomatic relations, we've had a long standing relationship with Saudi Arabia, but I think there are there Magnitsky arm, sales and support for the war in Yemen are probably the three areas where congress is now most focused, and it is a dramatic change in attitude about Saudi Arabia as a result of this action. So I think it's just went so smoothly and so quickly, the guy's dead within a week, we're sending the letter to evoke the Magnitsky act within twenty four hours. They had blue little signs. In fact, I think there was a screw up because it said free, cook could kashogi. Then these people are outside the embassy holding these. These printed preprinted signs with always preprinted. Oh, excellent. Yeah, it was all pre promised. A bunch of them, like, you know, I had into news picture in the newsletter of these guys holding these signs that was within like minutes. Yes, whole thing, sinks sinks. Now, something I don't know if in one of your clips, but the complete unbelievable coincidence of the pastor being released at the same time, this takes place which is just a coincidence, everybody, I please want you to remember. It is just a coincidence. That can't be a coincidence. Sounds like you sounds like a deal is a deal to incident. So there's a lot of reasons to not like Saudi Arabia. We understand what Tim Kaine democrat, but he has. He mentioned rand Paul's and I think that this plenty and I agree, you know, we should have this Yemen thing is. Yeah, I understand. You're on bad. This Saudis are oil, but Trump is angry with the Saudis about the price of oil. This plenty of reason to set them down, put them in their place a little bit. But we don't. But but what I like about Trump being so pragmatic is you could do that, but no, let's blow this one hundred. Ten billion dollar arms deal right. Yeah. Well, I still think it was actually the the deal. Oddly charming, if the deals not even, I think feels not even completely done. I think it's still in the works and it's not like that's why he doesn't want get that. That's kind of Eddie. Well, it's the, it's the sales guys. Dilemma in this case is like crap. A really do on a screw is guys over, but I, you know, I wanted to make a big announcement about one hundred and ten billion just back to the pastor for a moment. Just a very short clip. This was on Fox News. There was some a CIA. She'll obviously, you know, talking about the pastor and you know just how we got them release, but this is not well, listen to this and you'll see the the slip up president was the timing of this air to ones releasing a pastor Brunson. The president said, the timing is totally coincidence. This has nothing to do with the murder ledge murder of chrishogan of the US journalists fish. Okay. Would you say that a couple of things? I, there's still a lot of work yet to be done. There are other Americans. Including an NSA ethnic Turkish of officer or been plus scientists. To say. Scientist. Come on in a great cash. Then you look at you look at this past, of course despise, are the least likely people that don't all look like JAMES BOND and not saying that the pastor was one. But yeah, it's guys like that who are patriotic and want to help their country now pass on some info. Yeah, these sign on and you, you know, it's easy to get seduced into that from. Right. The problem I see with it and I think is a problem for the intelligence communities. What happened to all these Chinese? They have people in. I don't wanna point the finger at anybody like Brennan. They have people in that agency that apparently are are turning over our spice to the to the to the alien really using. That's what happened with our spies in China. Oh, absolutely. Now they finally pinned it on a guy that was working at the agency, a Chinese guy who then took off in left the agency in ran off to China. They kind of blame him for the whole thing then 'cause he got access to the database, but it's still like you know that things a leaky boat doesn't really. You can't and ended and a new. I don't want to get off track, but I'll just say this the modernization process, the doing it, the CIA does one thing. Most importantly, it centralized is all the. Formation, two giant digital database, which makes it very easy to out these guys. In the olden days, the old timers will say stuff in a in a in a bottom drawer. You had a dossier to get asylum. I had mice I have. I'm like a top agent compartmentalization. I think it's called. I have my guys in China. I got three guys in China. Maybe this other guy's got two other guys in China, but they're not hooked. There's no database with all their names in one box. We're trying to which has Salesforce on top of it. For some reason. I don't know why the CIA did that, but they love Salesforce. So. Of course, Trump is being pressured. Now. Oh, don't send Mnuchin off to the to the to the was that the investor conference, Christine Lagarde is also very concerned, but she said, I'm going to go to the investor conference anyway, you know? So there's going to be a lot of pressure on the president's going. Yes, feeble garden, lead quiz, reading something. It's all of the only people going on at this is one of those. I think what the media was all out CNN is pulled out. Fox News is everyone's pulling out, no, no, no FOX is go. I thought that they were pulling out to know that was the big insult. Oh, FOX. Well, as you know, is just for an audience of one. Fox News audience of one. All right. So what what you got, what you got from? Well, I only have humorous stuff. Yeah, that's good. I have one kicker to wrap this up, but if you've got some us keep you, you keep your rap. Let's go with who still in kashogi though. Right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Let's start with the democracy. Now, one, this is this is in the middle of her report and we can get kind of get a feeling for where she's headed. It turns out that Amy Goodman has a lot of opinions about this, and so whatever it is mostly her talking is quite interesting. There's some good stuff in there. The full audio and video recordings have not yet been released. One person with knowledge of the audio recording told the Washington Post quote, you can hear his voice and the voices of men speaking Arabic. You can hear how he was interrogated, tortured, and then murdered unquote a show. She had written critically about the Saudi government on the Saudi Crown prince and Bs Mohammed bin Salman. He fled Saudi Arabia last year and had been living in Virginia. The Washington Post is also reported that based on US intelligence intercepts. The quick just like that he was living in Virginia Langley. Come on round prints had directly ordered an operation to lure her, show cheap back to Saudi Arabia. The Turkish government has accused Saudi Arabia of flying two planes into Turkey carrying fifteen men assassination squad to carry out the murder. One of the Saudi men was reportedly a forensic expert known for pioneering rapid and mobile autopsies Turkish officials, say the menus to bone saw to dismember kashogi shoes body before smuggling body, parts out of the consulate bones. Love the bones. Yeah, that's the they've kind of inserted that bone saw saw it sounds dramatic. Now, what was the point of the dimension or even discussing a guy who's an autopsy expert. I put this in the newsletter like what? So what? The just to give it credence and make it sound fischel. Fifteen guys do an assassination. What's the point of all these people so they can carry the body parts side. You only need maybe five? Well, I think the main whether fifteen guys walked in or not, or whatever happened, they arrived on private jet. It just makes for a great story to distract everyone from what's really going on with this. I mean that Judy, by the way for those who don't know democracy now is aired on public television. Correct? Yeah, it's, yeah, mostly free speech TV. Okay. Because some people even saying, what is democracy now? Because I don't think anyone watches us report. She's the only one keeping that thing alive, sworn peace report with Amy Goodman. Gotcha. Okay. What? So she gets this guy. She gets ro Khanna the guy who's like a local Representative for the Democrats, Silicon Valley guy. And he looks like, I don't know if you saw that that. Indiana Jones thing, where the guy used to grab the heart, you put, you know, some horrible looking edba guys, he'd grab your heart and pull it out and hold it up for the crowd. Grow kind of just like that guy. K now Trump ups are doing waste. Now she's gonna at this question. She instead of asking, she's gonna ask ro Khanna question, but the question is like ten times longer than any possible answer. 'cause she gets she goes, she goes shaggy dog story and gets very sidetracked. But I think the information she provides is kind of interesting for us to analyze before you get Irap. Can you talk about exactly what the US relationship is with Saudi Arabia? Also, of course, it implicates Jared Kushner. The senior adviser President Trump's son in law, very close to Mohammed bin Salman, and this information Washington Post put out about. They already had wanted to get cushal gay to lure him back to Saudi Arabia for well, who knows what they wanted to do with him to lure him from Saudi Arabia. Also this information that he had gone to the. Saudi consulate the embassy in Washington, but they told him he had to go to stumble. He goes to stumble to the consulate there and they tell him fine. They're going to give him that marriage documentary needed, but he had to come back in a week. So he goes to London participates in a meeting last week and goes back, which presumably is for them to prepare and to bring these two planes in with the forensic expert in the military and intelligence people. And at least according to these latest reports, if this is true with video and audio evidence, he was murdered and dismembered within a few hours and then the planes flew out. Well, it's brutal and what we also know reports that US intelligence agencies may have been aware. She's Nancy, drew what she goes on. But there's a couple of interesting points that have to be thought about because one of the things at least we do on this show is look at the logic of a lot of this kashogi knows or senses that he wants to be tricked into going back to Saudi Arabia because they offered him a consulting gig, but they don't like him. So he fears well, I don't know. Maybe they're going to chop my head off. I'm not going back casino. I'm going to be a made man, but maybe not such a good idea. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so. So he ends up with going to the Virginia suppose now I find out what this document was he supposed supposedly now, I don't know if you've been married a couple of times. Yeah, fan. I would ask you when you go to get married and say that the wherever the core during the church, do they ask you for proof of your last divorce? It depends in. Yes, it that happened it in relation to a green card, which is the two previous reasons I got married. That you do have to prove when you're when if you're if it's immigration issue and you get married, then you have to prove that the previous marriage was dissolved and so has to do with immigration. Yeah, but it's yes, exactly. So that may have had something to do with it. I think it would be the guy who would degree in cards, so I don't know how that would work. I'm just I well, I don't think he could have gone to Vegas and gutting married pretty easily. But no, he needs to get proof for some reason for some core for some one that he's been divided legally divorced at him as other veterans being legally divorced. Maybe it was for his citizenship or green car something there's something about that may well, then he goes to the Turkish consulate in Washington DC, and they say, now you have to go to Istanbul. Now this makes no sense to me. Why does he have to go to Yvonne bull? And he doesn't think this is the species. Can you mail it to me? Can you mail it to me? Know who I am yet. You can't just bullcrap. Why do I have to go to John bull? So he goes to hold on. Hold on one second in the Muslim faith. Don't you just say, I'm not married. I'm not married. I'm not married. That's. That is true, but it's kind of a myth in tall, anyone. It's hard to get. You came to do an iphone video and say, here's my proof. I said it three times or I'll say it in front of you. Yeah. I mean, this would be logical night now. I thought about that too. So he stupidly goes to assemble and then they look around and they say, oh, geez, we weren't expecting you. You have to come back in a week so we can set up a chopping block a week. You can get a whole new passport. You can sit there. No, you have to come back in a week. So he goes to London and then gives a speech or something. And he had a meeting he had a meeting of sorts. Okay. By the way there's a, there's a Turkish or there's a Saudi embassy in London, a big one on stare and they do a lot of a lot of work. There is a huge embassy maybe bigger than the one in Istanbul, but they can't do the paperwork there. Okay. So he doesn't think twice about this. He says, okay, I'm gonna stupidly. Go back to Yvonne bull and go into the Emba. Charging the embassy and he goes in there and then he disappears. Now, this doesn't sound right under any circumstances, especially for a guy who suspicious. Now, the one thing I thought immediately was extraction exercise. I don't know why, but I'm just throwing nine. That too. Yes. The first thing I thought because they had the fifteen guys get get him out of there somehow they get him out of there and take him back to Saudi Arabia Klay the dice six guys. I mentioned this day said that they thought it was that extraction and the drugged him, and they killed him by by using too much the drugs. They idiocy filled the thing too. Vall an extraction gone horribly wrong as the objects traction gone wrong, so but that does that belies all these, these so-called, oh, they found him. They GL that him in Arabic, they tortured him and then killed him when they have video and audio evidence, which again is another question. How did they get this a? Because where is it. Where is it? Where is it? Where is it? And the second thing that the two versions of this tape, and then there's the bogus story about the iphone or the I watched the Babbel watch it. Perry turned it on record or or version. It said cloud cell signal, and he was videotaping himself in his embassy, which I'm sure as droughted with Faraday cage terror till I would be a vi- renting emphasis. I think there's this story stinks, I Evan, so no agenda thinking we will focus on what's going to be done with it. But my last clip is from France, twenty four kind of a wrap up for what was happening with him or what he might have been doing if he was creating enemies. This is on French shrimp, FRANZ, twenty, four. His friend Salim says, ach now for more on that story, we're joined by selling Rizzaq Turkish pinnacles. In Washington DC. Thank you for talking. This clip in the beginning, the guys on Skype and it's a, it's a really crappy connection. So it's not a, it's not your file. It's not me. It's not Skype. It's on the recording now for more on that story, we're joined by selling Rizzaq Turkish political scientist space to in Washington. DC. Thank you for talking to some fronts. Twenty four. City you personally at no Jamaa pesto you, you met him half a dozen times this year alone. Tell us about them. I Mr. Kushtia g was a regular fixture at events in Washington in New York is all I. It's not be accurate to say that I know him per se. He's got his friends calling super beta position to speak much Dave. But I had the opportunity to speak with a bunch of times something that struck me about our conversations missile Kushtia Juba stall on who had been in government as being event the government in Saudi Arabia, and he's thinking seemed to be informed by probing central committee. This gene that he knew quite bell. It gets better was more unpredictable, and it was going in a direction that he didn't. He didn't necessarily like on. He was vocal about his criticism in that sense, but he never really sold himself as a as a dissident. He must perhaps acquaint take. That's whether it was I was about to. Because he he wasn't calling for regime change. He supported the 2013 vision for Saudi society put forth by Mohammed bin Salman. It does seem extraordinary at if the narrative we're kind of getting is true that he would be targeted when he balls into really thought for syphilis critic. Something that's on my directed this question to one of my Turkish contacts asking if this narrative is true, why Mr. kosher g would be targeted something that's being hitting the news recently is it Mr. Kaseke was working on a prodemocracy think-tank and he'd be meeting the Gulf bays donors with activists. I think the organization's name was blowing to be dawn and it was incorporated in Delaware democracy for the Arab world. Now, if that is the case, considering that he was also previously editor in chief for newspaper owned by elva lead bin Talal the billionaire who was part of the Ritz Carlton arrests, perhaps that made them ally ability for the Saudi team. But otherwise, this is beyond the best of our imaginations MS Kushtia Khashoggi is a very well known Saudi journalist, the fact that he would vanish and potentially in this grizzly way. I, it's impossible to wrap our heads around at office, no Turkey. Culpa tween the Ralph and a hard place in this. So Don the democracy for the Arab world. Now, this clip the only came to me this morning, so I haven't had a chance to look into Don, but that's something I hadn't heard about in the reporting. No, it's news to me. So there's a lot of the four seasons song. Dawn. No, that's tie yellow ribbon. No, dawn done. I did it. Never dawn with Tony Orlando. No, Don look. Let's not. Let's. Let's not no, no, nothing valley. That was not. I desperately need to deconstruct cognac well, wait a minute. We never finish. This thing was because Sean, I thought that was it. I was done. I was wrapped. That's all we got. I think it was much of a rap. I said, all I have we, we will wait to see what's going to happen with the Magnitsky act. We already building, I think. So. I don't know. I, as I said, I don't know anything about dawn this. This came in late this morning. I'd need to look into that, but I can see where it was spook. Yes. Well, I think that's pretty obvious. I really doubt that Solomon, how dumb is this guy? If he's going to go bring a guy in shop them up at the embassy EMMY, there's millions of ways of Sassoon's can do it at, you know, throw you off a roof. I mean, there's a million ways the dish shoot from distance if you want to. Oh, no, I, I totally if you're going to kill somebody then into this and make it look like an accident, do it the way we usually do to to the head, you know? And then this. The left hand, small hot tub. It was lots of good ways to do. It just doesn't make any sense in this unless now there's one. I just want to say this before we go on there was one. Kind of more of a alternative idea, which is that some and is part of the mob that's now running Saudi Arabia, and this was a message, but even if it was a message where you know they would have wasn't much of a message because he just kind of disappeared. Now this embassy, I think this embassy back and forth business, and I agree with you that it's it's sketchy about the proving the divorce, as the reason for that is what spooks do. Embassies are where spooks live Pez. No one watched the Americans and we all know this. Yeah, they're all in there. So what did have to bring fifteen more guys in crawling with spooks now, but he was, I think he was a spook. Maybe he was transporting something from the embassy in London to the embassy in Turkey. I don't know that sounds more believable in anything is crazy, which not even crazy. That actually makes sense. He was maybe just shuttling stuff back and forth. Hey, he worked for the Washington Post, lots of spies. Have an current i. allege currently do work for the Washington Post says decision. You know, why would a guy who's as you pointed out in the newsletter is Muslim Brotherhood was connected to Osama bin Laden and they could have really asked him to pen a little little column about his relationship with Osama bin Laden. Oh, so he's he's heralded as a fantastic this guy. He was one of their sources. I'm sure at this guy sounds like a spook and then we may have been, what did we get? We gave, we gave a spook away. We got a spook back with the pastor. This pastor spook new journalists, spook podcasters spoke. We don't have any podcast or spooks it'd be making more money not yet. Yeah, yet. Not yet never know. All right. Okay. So I think the rap, I think that's right now we're going to go to Chi. Do have a clip to. Yes, it's going to be number three in the sequence. Because this was this. I enjoyed this stuff more than anything. Good because I really enjoyed divall the everybody gets all bent out of shape, and I'm going to preface the whole thing that you're going to do with who cares. It's kind yeas to him and Trump kinda like each other. So what what I found interesting is well, obviously the the out well, it was two sides. It started with immediate maim calling. That's part of what your clip is. And really just little bits and bytes of what happened in the Oval Office and what what was shown and what people responded to was almost kind of appropriate, although not the way it was presented, but only on this show. Can you actually sit down and listen to what cognac said? Because all those little sound bytes, all those little bits were picked from one long soliloquy, which not only is it, does it make sense? Not only is it no agenda thinking. He's even saying some things that you have specifically bitched about on this show. And it was it was an eye opener. And so now I really am starting to think that certainly CNN and Don lemon, and whoever else really don't want anyone to listen to what kind you said and you and you have to listen to the whole thing. And I sat twice that watch this half hour just trying to understand what he was saying. And it's really not. It's actually quite smart and it's it's the stuff we talk about all the time and the news media, whether they're lazy and just like I, it's just kinda being crazy. And so let's just assume he's nuts or they or they do not want people to know what he said. And I think that's important. Here's the, I'm just going to set up your clip is number three. I wanna say this that I think that they're. They are a little lazy and I don't think they care what he has to say because there if you're on the globalist side of the debate, all his stuff is nuts. John. If they don't care, why didn't they just marginalize him and just not talk about him? Why? All the outrage? Why? Why the insane conversations about him? That's the dynamics of the news business in, you know, somebody if one person makes a big stink about it. He's also a target kind as of important celebrity and he's in there violating the on. Respo- can black rule. Okay. Go on. I just saying, I think it's it became a story. I think there's a story here. We'll start with pretty much CNN the wolf Blitzer this part of the clip everyone seeing with Don lemon. I just wanted to pay attention to what snippets they pull out to discuss with their panel about what Conway was saying and doing in the Oval Office. So here is there little edit. He don't look good. We don't look good. This is our president. He has to be the freshest, the flies the flyest planes the best factories, and we have to make our core be empower. We have to bring jobs into America. I don't ask the questions and simple sign sound bites you tasting a fine wine. It has multiple notes. The liberal would try to control a black person through the concept of racism because they know that we are very proud of most of the people. So when I said, I like Trump to like someone as liberal, they'll say, oh, but he's racist. You'd think racism could control me. Oh, that's an invisible wall. Would you build a trap door that if you mess up and you actually some happens you fall and you end up next to the Unabomber. Let me get this. Now when you hear this sequence and of course my ears perked up mainly because he said you the door and you land next to the unit bomber, I'm like, wow, this, sir. It sounds completely unhinged the way they've put this together in what was kind of like a double wink. I think is when Khan says. I'm like a fine wine. You got all these different notes. I don't have that in one of my clips. He what he actually said was it. It didn't there that he said, yeah, but he said what he said before that was, I don't speak in soundbites. I'm like a fine. So all the ad now you do. That's exactly what happened. So now they bring in Don lemon to discuss this and Don says exactly what I thought. I love this guy right here. Yeah. He did most of the talking in the Oval Office Don. What did you think. Wolf. I listen, I don't. I have no animosity for. Conde west. I'm just going to be honest and may get a lot of trouble for it. I feel actually feel bad for him would I saw was a minstrel show today him in front of all of these white people. Mostly white people just disgust for second minstrel show. This is an essence calling him an uncle, Tom, and my correct in verse worse. Now minstrel shows, I believe were white people who put on, although it did also include black people white. He began with black people putting on black face. If you saw the Broadway play long, you know about this Al Jolson time, right? You know about this is pre eligible right? If you saw this, a minstrel shows are black people putting on black face and playing blacks the, you've been blocked exaggerated fitness, and they would do whole act a whole routine. It was a very interesting era. Was it funny then the whites said, hey, we can do the same thing. So they put on the black face and they got, they go to better venues. And so pretty soon, the blacks were Marge blazed, but it's an insult is what it is begin. So they don't even, of course they failed to mention the whole time that Jim Brown. I got Jim Brown. I got Jim Brown. I got Jim Brown and Brown is one of the most famous black men in history, recent history for his exploits as the probably the greatest running back in the history of football and and it was a famous actor. I have some Jim Brown clips from this meeting as well, because this was a very the way I understand it. Jim Brown never said anything. Jim Brown said several things. Several things. This land. I, you know what? I'll do Jim Brown ROY now for you. So here's it. Now it's he doesn't speak very loudly, Jim Brown, but here's what he said. It's my honor. Jim owner tug. I've been a fan of yours for a long time. Nobody like you. Nobody like you know, athlete like you, everyone. I'm here to. I'm not here to as anything. Contributor that's always been the way Jim has been to Jim Brown, which I think is nice statement says I'm here to serve. I'm not asking for anything. I'm here to help out. Tell me how it can help Mr President, gee, you didn't see that on TV. Jim Brown also had something misled also had something to say about North Korea. Going to be confirmed to mine and a friend of mine for a long time. And Jim is Jim came out of nowhere who said, I like what the president's doing. Longtime ago, we met. I just appreciate it Brown uncle tab, very much. Numbers. If you look at the median income, if you'll get every single indicate. Keeping up promise you. Like the North Korea I liked. Two. Well, he's impact turn out to be great dialogue dialogue. So you know, C-SPAN had the best audio their their audio guys are pretty good. Damn cameras are making a huge racket. So I I like North Korea guy. I think he says this, yeah, this is a very good. This is good at dialogue. Jim Brown says, he's, he's encouraging. The president was good dialogue, and the secretary of state just came back might just get that from no career. We had. Very good meetings and lean again, but billionaire. No more testing, no more missiles Trump's gotta take little credits here. No more nothing. Yeah. That was to war. Those headed to war. Jim Brown says, looks like we were almost in war committee that club. To death and I spoke to President Obama. I will tell you that was having to more, and now it's going to be, I believe it's gonna work out anywhere from stop the war. We always not who have millions of, you know, soul has thirty million people. You know, I I left this in just so you could hear the Trump was, you know he was pontiff. Thirty million people right near the border thirty miles off the mortar millions of people would have been killed and I don't say anything so. We saw one of the biggest problems. Jim Brown says, we solve one of the biggest problems. All right. So you didn't see that on the news. Why would you just Jim Brown? He doesn't matter opinion, doesn't matter, and I love being able to do this, and this is this is going to be a little longer than normal just because we can't do what the mainstream media did with Connie as chop him into bits because then you don't understand what he's saying. Once you understand what he's saying, we never have to do it again. Let's go back debt. There's a connection between the bone saw references and chopping people into bits and shopping Konya into bids. I sure hope not because I fear, I believe that he is purposely being suppressed with what he saying because it's very important what he's saying. So fear for community to hear it west. I'm just going to be honest and may get a lot of trouble for it. I feel actually feel bad for him. What I saw was a minstrel show today him in front of all of these white people. Mostly white people, embarrassing himself and embarrassing. Americans, but mostly African Americans because every one of them is sitting either at home or with their phones watching this cringing. I couldn't even watch it. I had to turn the television off. It was so hard to watch. Okay. So because d'arme just couldn't watch it. The journalists that he is he missed, I guess, would Konya was actually saying and just has an opinion without having watched it and anyone at home, any African American with a phone is is disgusted is horrified by this solely. I winced you what just quick zephyr just went by. And only you can do that. Dari jazz. People can go right down to time every black American with the phone was embarrassed by this. So I went to my favorite opus one YouTube channel, which has one point two million subscribers. It is my go-to. It is a black YouTube channel. Let's pull up a couple of clips real briefly. Here's shabas the OJ Shabazz Izzo was public. What's popping Brom not even making those statement. I'm asking questions is the disdain with Conde about what he says, meaning is he lying about things that he say is not making sits? Do we have a problem with what he's saying or is the major problem defected? He has a line himself and continues to put himself in the president in the midst of Donald Trump. What's the real issue we kinda yet. So that's one voice. Let's hear from another fun black American. He's the reasons I'm here while I'm studying this interview with wasn't Donald Trump. I wanted to understand some do not. Allow. To mislead. You not allow that to mislead do not allow him saying, oh, I love Trump in office dancing and Sam Bowen. Shut him and Jobbins to mislead. You. Remember there was a strategy when it comes to dealing with the system of white supremacy. There's a strategy when it comes to this. Remember the spook who sat by the door. Remember NAT Turner, there was a system. So what if Konya is finessing the president? What if these finessing the White House? What if he is saying he's gonna pretend to do all of this nonsense and look like one of the worst got bam hypocrites on a planet just so that he can gain access because now the president has given him the presidential snap or prove with Don Trump told him to speak on his behalf wherever and whenever he wants to get Larry Hoover brought out of prison, what would that be? What would I do? So there's a name I hadn't heard, and it came up with a couple of real gangsters on this opus one YouTube channel. They heard him talk about it. I just wanted to say. West is not Greece. He said for the president of the United States and said, free Levy, we've would. The biggest guy Weser free Larry Hoover. Oh. What's their free Levy Hoover Donald Trump then? Yeah. And they just as mad. This coming at that the I think it's a stupid. Every celebrity that's coming at the stoop, they might be old. He really might be the oldest ship, but free, Larry, free, Larry met freelance. The other. The other. Really need to check yourselves man. All right. So we will get into who Larry Hoover is. After we go back to the incredible disdain from CNN in particular, which clip did you have now John? Well, I have the clip where they some just another one of the many, I I had a choice of a bunch of clips, but the one which I thought was the absolute worst, which was a low point at CNN were want some a black analyst at one of the many that they have on their roster comes out and just lays into Konya in the worst possible way. And this is a grand display of mass ignorance in the face of the downfall of democracy. And we have a white and a black man join together at the narcissistic hip who refuse to understand that they are more a black then a road to real democracy in our country. This is white supremacy by ventriloquist aback mountain. Moving the white racist. Ideals are doing from Condie west smile. Cognac lift is engaging in one of the most nefarious practices yet of black body and brain are the warehouse for the articulation and expression of anti-black cinemas that have been Chinshek by people with far more rigorous credentials. Now, I don't know about you and I have no standing being a white American, but I heard black America talk on the opus one channel, and I'd say this guy is the Tom. Well, he's obviously a stooge for the CNN. White management. It's not run by a white guy. A black guys run by white guy. So go back to Don lemon because I think he really set the tone. He is the voice of black America. Now, according to him according to him. Just so you can hear how shames Konya save because of course he's, you know, he's crazy. I think Don lemon kind of started. The economy is is mentally ill vibe. We'll just go back to that and then we'll get into a con- you actually said him sitting there being used by the president of the United States, president United States, exploiting him and exciting. I don't mean this in a disparaging way. Jerks flooding someone who needs help who needs to back away from the cameras who needs to get off stage who needs to deal with his issues. And if anyone around him cares about him, the family that he mentioned today or whomever his managers, maybe some other people who are in the music business who know him, they need to grab him and snatch him up and get Konya together. Because Conway new, this is nothing to do, and this is Don is giving white America and white news cable show America licensed to repeat this, which is what. Happened incessantly over the weekend with being liberal or conservative. This has to do with honesty and we have to stop pretending sitting here on these CNN panels or whatever network panels and pretending like this is normal. And let's have this conversation about Kanye west. What is it. Who cares? Why are you sending cameras? So the Oval Office recon west, did you send cameras to the Oval Office and carry it live? Actually, I didn't clip that, but there's a part where Trump said everyone wanted to be here and the press presses in there on videos. I gay. We wanted to see this. We didn't wanna see any other meetings. So yeah, of course they wanted that it's crazy town. When common visited the White House come and visit at the White House. And do they beautiful poem spoken word talked about pub, black kings and queens. That's what we up and do better. He didn't disparage anybody. I don't hear the kids on opus one talking about common and his poem. He didn't stop stop begging to have a little bit. He's talking about common in his poem like, okay, daddy said he didn't disparage anybody did kinda disparage people not. I do not believe so and everything I've seen, no. What's he talking about? It's the Trump is a racist disparages I go, you know, to fall poem, spoken word, talked about pub. Black people are kings and queens how we need to rise up and do better. He didn't disparage anybody. He didn't speak in non sequiturs. He didn't do anything awful. And you know, the only people who criticize him, the only people who really covered it were Sean handed in his band of hypocrites who are now. Who who are now applauding Kanye west and the same people that many in that group called the inward because of Taylor swift and because of George Bush. And now all of a sudden he's playing, he's going to wrap it up, but he just has to get one more insult person who represents the African American community. He doesn't. We need to take the cameras away from Conway and from a lot of this craziness that happens in the White House because it is not normal and we need to stop sitting here, pretending that it's normal. This was an embarrassment. Konya's mother is rolling over in her grave. Oh. That's the lowest that now you can't go much lower recently, didn't she? And it affected him a lot. So good work Don lemon. I'm revoking STAN lemon even working at this operation because he's the guy that will set the tone that is desired. I can't see it any other way that is the desire tone. He's black. Therefore he has standing. He can say, whatever he want. She's a pledge replace. Exactly. Okay. So the backdrop is we've got Jim Brown sitting there and all that conversation with Jim Brown. That happened mainly in the in the beginning before con- you even got into his because at launch pretty quick. But first five minutes is to Jim Brown. Talk about North Korea and, and you know trumping and you just want to be here to serve Mr President and then Konya he's not there alone. No, he has Larry Hoover's lawyer with him. Jared also in in this meeting, which no one mentioned Larry Hoover was arrested. In Chicago for drugs. And at initially it was just a minor offence. But then after seventeen years, he was rearrested because apparently he had not only run a criminal gang from jail, but he had called out a hit on some rival gang member who was killed, and then he got a six time life sentence. But in the seventeen years after his initial incarceration, he was really organizing Chicago Ben. He was trying to better his life. I wasn't there. I'm just telling you what the story is on on Larry Hoover. And so then he got, you know, the guys now sixty eight and has been in jail for quite a while and you hear the black kids on the YouTube opus one channel. They know who Larry Hoover is. They see him as some kind of hero. Is it because he was a drug dealer or is it because he was trying to do something good? And this is why Konya is actually there which is not mentioned. We know the Kim Kardashian successfully got someone out of jed pardoned the woman who was on a minor drug offence. So now let's pick up the story at the beginning of this meeting. Spoiler with today and it. So a prisoner that we're focused on, he has six life sentences and they have next to the bomber door Twenty-three. And once you. So now you know the reference to the Unabomber he's in the same facility as take. Context, and by the way. There was no mention of Larry Hoover on any of the CNN reports, Jeff think, no, it's more important to show Don lemon saying his mom is rolling over integrate. Larry Hoover is an interesting story. I've never heard of Larry Hoover. I'm just learning about it. That means wanted to. What did he buys you? Yes, coming. Tell us an alleged leaves for conspiracy from this is Hoover's lawyer prison. You know, it's alleged, but we do believe even if he did commit those crimes. The sentence was overly broad into the sentence, six life sentences and the most secure prison in the world also known as clean version of pill for basically neck and prisoners. That name Brady IX supermax imporance Colorado. Bales of Yuna bomber Al Qaeda operatives Nass killers, Oklahoma City bomber things of that nature. How does sixty six years old. It was really the reason why the imprison him. It's because he started doing positive for the community. He started showing that you actually have power that he wasn't just one of monolithic voice, but he could wrap people around. So there's theories that there's infinite amounts of universe and there's alternate universe. So it's very important for me to get Hoover out because an alternate universe, I am him now this may sound unhinged, but we have spoken about this specifically alternate universes. And yes, in a different dimension, I think would be more correct in scientific terms. I'm you and your me. There's a dimension where that's taking place, isn't that the theory of quantum soil, actually the series, there's probably an infinite number of if it can be going on every decision you make it have gone off in a different direction and actually has. So this is a. Almost religious philosophy Konya has which he's mentioned. Multiple times, of course, is laughed at. I don't laugh because we talk about alternate universes in different contexts, but not that dissimilar. What he's saying is in some other universe. I'm in jail, and he's me and I have a duty to go and help. This guy is just a humanity thing, but it's con- yeah, so you have to think and listen to what the guys saying. And I have to go and get him free because he was doing positive inside of Chicago, just like how moving back to your car go and it's not just about, I didn't know it was moving back to Chicago. Yeah, that that was that was mentioned. Yeah, but it was news he was moving back. Yeah. Okay. Stage and be an entertainer having a monolithic voice that's for forced to be a specific party. People expect that if you're black, you have to be democrat. I have. I've have conversations that basically said that welfare is the reason why a lot of black people end up being democratic. Say that you gotta stay with him. That's why doesn't work when it's chopped up. So he's segue into something else, but it all comes around at the end with a mind blowing reveal your first of all it a limited amount of jobs. So the, the father's lose the jobs, and they say, we'll give you more money for having more kids in your home. And then we got rid of the mental health institutes in the eighties in the ninety. The prisoner rates just shot up. Have we not discussed that specifically. Yeah, we discussed Reagan shutting down the ones in the eighties. He in California because it was a demand of, I would just as a reminder. Keep a jet? No, I was year during that era is going to high school and college, and I remember the era because it was the liberals going all my God, these mental health oscilloscopes and they always site egg new state hospital in San Jose. Are there horrible? And then one of the one flew over the coups nest movie came at all. They're horrible. We got to shut him down terrible. This is not the way to treat the mentally ill and so Reagan comes in as a Republican. He says, what you guys went, okay, we're shutting them down and they shut all of them down. And then there's been nothing but complaining ever since and the part that you and I have never been able to come up with because we're not black is that black arrests shot through the roof because of this. And so bear in mind the Yuna bomber, all the stuff that comes to the end with con people end up being democrat, say, first of all it, it's a limited amount of jobs. So the, the father's lose the jobs and they say. We'll give you more money for having more kids in your home, and then we got rid of the mental health institutes in the eighties and the nineties, and the prisoner rates just shot up. And now you have Sharak where people call show at which actually are murderers going down by twenty percent every year. Just talked to the superintendent met with Michael Sachs, Ron roms of right hand, man. Oh, my God could be met with him. They must be crazy why the entertain that fool. So I think it's the bravery that helps you beat this game called life. You know, they tried to scare me to not wear this hat my own friends, but this had gives me it gives me power in a way. You know, my dad and my mom separated, so I didn't have a lot of male energy in my home and also. A married to a family that you know not a lot of male than going on his beautiful. I, of course he's kind of winking to Bruce Jenner there. I mean, Caitlyn. So I understand where he's coming from. I didn't have a lot of male energy in my household. I, I hear what he's saying when you put it all together, what he said this next bit becomes relevant, but there's times where you know something about, you know, I love Hillary. I love everyone, right? But the campaign I'm with her just didn't make me feel as a guy that didn't get to see my dad all the time, like a guy that can play catch with his son. Now, is this not something we explicitly discussed when that slogan came up? I'm with hers like that. That's kind of very, we've we discussed the fact that I'm with her is not a campaign and to con- yai it meant why I don't feel good about that. I wanna be with daddy. He's literally saying that and I, I, I can understand that he felt that way. It's this is not a crazy thing to say anything. I love Hillary, but I didn't. I didn't feel good about it. I didn't want to be with her one. I missed a male energy in his life or in the world, whatever it is. Is it was something about when I put this hat on and maybe feel like superman you made a superman that was that's my favorite superhero. And you made a superman Cape for me also as a guy that looks up to you looks up to wrap. Laurent looks up to American industry guys non-political no bullshit. Put the beep on it. Have you wanna do a five seconds delay and just goes in and gets it done right now? You gave me the heart to go to a deed is because it sounds like he's just talking self promotion about himself when he talks about a Dita's, shoot. Okay, good deeds. When I went in and two thousand fifteen, we're a fourteen billion dollar company lose a two billion dollars a year. Now we have a thirty eight billion dollar market cap. It's called the easy affect this guy's clearly mentally insane. He knows market caps. I mean this, you've got to be nut job and I went to casper. We had a meeting chicag- mattress company, and I said, you have to bring manufacturing on shore. Inge daddy. Sure. Into the core, it's not about the borders. The core of a deed is in Chicago is the core of middle America. We have to make America strong. So I had the balls because I had the balls to put on this hat. I mean, this data's thing made me a billionaire, and I could lost two hundred million dollars walking away from that deal. But even with that, I knew it was more important for me to take the chance of walking away from that deal than have no fathers in Chicago with no homes. And when we do have prisoner reprobation for note because it's habilitation rehabilitation because they didn't have the ability in the first place. We never had anyone taught us to teach us. Exactly. We had no one to tout us, so he does. This is something very important what he says they're, he's, he's mimicking what black Americans will say. Well, nobody Todd because at dads went there is he's mimicking that, but he's saying some good stuff, right? So it's more important than any specific deal any, anything that we bring joy. Jobs into America and that we provide a transition with mental health in the American education curriculum that a Jim has worked on. Larry Hoover also has a curriculum that he's worked on. We have Montessori curriculums that we worked on. We works out of uniform curriculum. The wall of dove establishment has a curriculum. We have meditation, there's a lot of things affecting our mental health that makes us do crazy things that puts us back into that trap door call the thirteenth amendment. Now, this is this boomy the fuck away. I'm sorry to use that word. I got when he said the trap door of the thirteenth amendment. I'm like, what is he talking about? Let's not give it away. We'll read the thirteenth amendment a moment. After Konya gets too. I did say abolish with the hat on because why would you keep them around us a trap door? If you build an floor, the constitution is the base of our of our industry right of of our of our country of our company. Would you build a trap door. That if you mess up and you accidentally some happy you fall and you end up next to the unit bomber, okay, the thirteenth amendment for those who don't know what it is or those who forgotten the thirteenth amendment section one, neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except this punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted shall exist within the United States or any place subject to their jurisdiction. So what that means is and you have been, you brought this up. We've bitched about this many times that in the United States, slavery is legal. If you're incarcerated, you become a slave of the state and you're making twenty five cents a day and you're working for your working, how many which is which is again, you're of the famous Dutch saying, I am what I say. You are what you say about yourself, but you cope who the hell, which is what we do. It shaina we constantly heart bio China's got slave labor. They have all these prisoners are slave labor. We're the ones that have actual corporations that that that are involved. I'm sorry that are involved in slave labor in the prison system. There's corporations you can invest in that will that benefit from the slave labor of our prison system. And as I said, companies like way. A did just to stop. Again. I don't mind the prison being forced to do stuff like clean up the roads, maybe elected litter long highway eighty in California. There's a bunch of literature. Nobody picks it up. I don't mind putting a chain gang out there, but, but you have to pay them? Yes. And what is happening as you said, there are companies and I'm pretty sure when we brought it up when you brought it up. I was one of the companies or they were making flat pack furniture, all kinds of stuff, and American corporations go to the correctional corporation of America and hire this labor force. And so Conway is saying that the thirteenth amendment has a trap door because yes, well, it says no one can be a slave, but if you mess up and he's going to explain exactly how cruel this really was. If you mess up, then you fall through the trap door right into slavery because of the thirteenth amendments trap door, which is you can be a slave in the United States if you're incarcerated for. Crime. You've been convicted of you end up. You got to remove all that trap door out of the relationship. The four gentlemen that wrote the thirteenth amendment, and I think the way the universe works. It's perfect. We don't have thirteen floors. You know. So the board, the Portugal men that wrote that thirteen amendment didn't look like the people. They were amending. Also at that point, it was legal for blacks to read or African Americans to read. And so that meant if you actually read them, you get locked up. It's hard to. You. What I think is we don't need that said, he's crazy. I tell you, he doesn't know what he's talking about. His mom's rolling over in their graves this, we need partners. We need to talk to people. I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. I was connected with a neuro psychologist that works with the athletes in the NBA and the NFL and he he looked at my brand equalled on three parts. I'm going to go ahead drop some bombs through ninety eight percent tile IQ tests. I had a seventy five percentile of all human beings, but it was counting eight numbers backwards after repeat some going to work on that one. The other ones ninety eight percent tesla Freud, tesla intelligence, man. He's got it. So you had it measured. He's he's genius, and that's it's obvious. He's genius because you know, you could see that you see Trump like in this. They're very similar. So it's going to wrap it up with this whole thirteenth amendment thing, and Larry Hoover and everything with just that's really the whole thing is just almost done. So he said. That I actually wasn't bipolar. I had sleep deprivation which could cause dementia ten to twenty years from now. I wouldn't even remember my son's name. So all this power that I get and I'm taking my son to the socks game and all that. I wouldn't be able to remember his name from a misdiagnosis. And what we need is recap. Empower the pharmaceuticals and make more money. That's one thing. I'm never stepped into a situation where I didn't make people more money, so we can empower pharmaceuticals. We can power our industries. We can power our factories, we can bring not only Adidas on. Sure. We could bring FOX comp set up a factory, nothing Minnesota bitney, three thousand Wisconsin. Then Wisconsin. They have four thousand jobs. People making fifty three thousand dollars a year. And one of the things we got a set is Ford to have the highest design, the don't miss cars. The most amazing. I don't really say dope. I don't say negative words and try to live. We just say positive, lovely divine. Universal words. So the flyers, freshest most amazing car and what we want to start with this. I brought a broader a gift with me right here. He says gif, he means a Jif. And so now this is the famous he's opening his cell phone, but here what he's saying. We need to have the fly stuff. It's all going to be the best in America. This right here is the eye plane one. It's a hydrogen powered airplane, and this is what our president should be flying in. Look at this year, the Jared jerk. So hands, iphone, Jared jobs like. Can we get Air Force One. I have apple American. It company work on this plane with, but you know what? I don't about don't like what I what I need Saturday Night Live to prove on what I need the liberal improve on his if he don't live good, we don't look good. This is our president. He has to be the freshest, the ply, the flyers planes the best factories, and we have to make our core be empower. We have to bring jobs into America because our best export is entertainment ideas. But when we make everything in China and not in America that we're cheating on our country, and we're putting people in positions to have to do legal things to end up in a cheap est factory ever. The prison system. There you go. The cheapest factory ever the prison system. I think China is a prophet. I think he's definitely be the bipolar thing. He's manic. I think it was very, it was a shaggy. Dog story? Yup. With a bunch line, it was very well done. I think he could left a plane thing out. I think that hurt him. Well, the the whole, the whole way he speaks hurts him because it's so clip worthy for just these little clip of him being sounding say, a hold of that thing and clip it together to make him sound like a complete lunatic. Just listen to CNN today. You'll be far. Right? So I probably could have done even better job. Yeah. Well, it hasn't quick slip. They had to do it quick. Yeah. I mean, if you spend a little time, you could really have something very funny. But yeah, I think the guy is genius. I've always thought he was. I Taylor SWIFT's genius. These people that do this sort of marketing and they market themselves a lot and they do investments, Pete ditties, and other one, whatever his name is nowadays, Sean combs. Yeah, he's another one. These guys are extremely intelligent. They really know how to do marketing and and they know how to invest. None of them are poor and they don't seem to be getting poor. I mean, compared with the same kind of professional athletes that don't have quite the intelligence not to say that most of them don't. Some of them do, but when they have a lot of money, they end up broke guys, never end up broke. I mean, if they do, it's because they gave it away, but not because it was stolen from him. So in in review. People really got gypped. Sorry to use that term shortchanged on what Konya did. And certainly the American, the black Americans got shortchanged by the news media who is supposed to be serving them, could someone have just listened and don't even show a clip just say, well, he was talking about the thirteenth amendment, Larry Hoover, and how really the Democrats agree on the on the on the too many people in prisons. But no, they don't want black people to hear what Khania has to say. I'm glad I learned a lot. I, I went to Oprah's one like, oh, what does this? This is how I learned this stuff. No, that can't be done by. A by Dom lemon who had to turn the sound down because he was so offended that's offensive. That's actually racist, like keeping the black man down way to go Don and everybody. Everybody did it. It was job. He was unbelievable. Well, black men keeps himself down a lot of times when we lost our one of our listeners, the incognito grow. Yeah, we lost his. He was urged by deconstruction we did, which was critical of the Hillary. Had nothing to do with race then and of Edessa do as what Connie was talking about, which is off your black. You have to be a democrat anyway, fear for Konya because it's so easy to get rid of this guy. I don't think they have to do it now because they've marginalized him. But you know, when you hear these kids on YouTube, that's a million point to subscribers. People may just start to listen. I fear for Connie if he keeps this up and people start listening to him, it could be bad for his health. Yeah, but they done a good job of, I think they've kept him safe keeping. We're actually endangering him, but I feel pretty good about it. And with that, I'd like to thank you for your courage and say in the morning to you, John, thanks for combs, divorce. In the morning Neo Mr Adam curry in the morning, low ships at sea. Who can ground feet in the air subs in the water to Dame's. Tonight's out there and the morning to our troll room. No agenda stream dot com is where the trolls lineup and get ready for every single show live, no agenda stream dot com. You can actually listen live on Sundays and Thursdays also in the morning to uncle cave bear. Okay. Bear brought us the artwork for episode, ten seventy six titled that was m word and he brought us the the zome bees of twenty thirty. There was just a great compilation piece of the global warming, killing us all in the background, and we're all just zombies kind of floating around. It's a kind of look into our nearby future if bless you. If we don't keep our global warming down by one point five degrees. So we appreciate the work that on cave bear did there and all of our artists who we got a lot of art actually, no agenda. Our generator dot com actually might have been. There was quite a bit of art and funny too, but we gotta choose one, but also. Thanks for the word cloud word cloud to think. He used that in the in the newsletter word cloud open. It would be a little more. Actually, it was not quite exciting as I had hoped it would be. Somebody can do those. Now. I do have a lot of stuff in the second half of the show about go. I got to follow up to the global warming, but mostly by deconstructing Al Gore and I found his tell, you know what? You know what I like about this job. I challenge you to make a non boring climate report, and I think you've taken the challenge. I look forward to that. Let me think one, two, three, four, five, six twelve clips here and twelve clips of algal on. I'm thinking or ten seconds. Doesn't matter. You took the challenge. I appreciate it. And that's why we're a great show. Perhaps the best show. Well, it is supposedly Patrick foon and we want to thank you for being the one and only executive producer for show ten seventy seven. Yeah, it was not a great showing. Actually, I noticed knowledge or very moon. I think people are didn't like to Lascaux. Three thirty three and he says, what am I doing? What is this check Email from Patrick. I don't know. It's. I don't think you need to because everything's in the note as far as I can tell. Thank you, good. I'll check the Email and then we read it later. If I did something needs to be said, it's and Serb puff funk of the troll from the net flicks explorers podcast. Today is rusty duchess birthday, and we would like to add him to the birthday list. We also want to make a donation in his name to push him over the edge. I Knight hood over his on there. The leader of the second best podcast in the universe. No agendas, obviously, number one for his roundtable request, he would like crack rock and fishing rods and finally can unite him as sir gasket of the region. This is also Adams. First donation, please give him to deduce Shing's the only needs one. You've been deed douched series. For the humor of it. Jingle request. Any collusion, whoa, society defining and my balls was hot took. So now I understand check, Email, check, Email because he had sent these any collusion. Of course, I have. He had sent, whoa, society defining and my balls was hot except he sent them on a Google Drive. You click on the link and said, you need to request access. So I requested access for all the jingles. He sent me and this morning he'd still not granted the access. So I'm sorry. I can't play those for you because you didn't do it right now. Just send them straight up. Don't start using third parties to send us stuff. Why you can send directly meal. We'll take an attachment. I'm limited to ten megabytes here. Well, you can send it to me. I'm limited to fifty. I couldn't. I have to keep it to ten because people say me, DVD's here's this ISO file. Not good, so we'll do any collusion and we'll give them a karma and thank you very much. And this night is on the list. Any collusion. You've got karma. Birthday on the list to. Yep, k. cavenaugh comes in two hundred thirty dollars from Springfield, Virginia. She is associate executive producer, show ten, seventy seven. She writes, our family is so happy to wish Sean Cavanagh, aka Mr.. C. snob square a happy thirty. Eighth birthday. He's incredible. He's an incredible man. We feel blessed every day that he belongs to us. Please play him some resist karma to give him a laugh and remind him to resist thoughts that make him forget how truly amazing he is. We loved the show and listen all the time. The best part is our four year old often listens with us and now chance jobs, job jobs in a copy of Pelosi, which is always great lands love the show. Keep up the good work, and thank you for the birthday shout at to my best friend also credit this towards my husband's future. Knighthood. Thank you so much, Katy Cavanagh. Oh, ho, incredibly nice. That's a of loving, loving spouse. This we mutt we must, and we will much about that commit youth kind karma. Dennis Stevens Parker Colorado, two, three, four, five, six item. Jen's been awhile since I donate. A recent shows have been excellent. You guys dig up jams that no one else seems to bother to find or doesn't have the balls to talk about and you go up the great work nj n que Adam, my wife and I will be in Austin for the f. one racing, we'd love to see you if you can. We can see you if that can be arranged. We'll be staying at the Austin east k. a, oh, the rounds in America way, and they're in there in the in the in their camper trailer was the KOA before we had to the track on Thursday go, you're going to have a trailer, go into the trailer park is fun. So Thursday. Okay. I think they might have sent me an Email. All right, thanks, Dave. This is autumn in Gladstone Missouri to twenty two twenty two two bags of elevens for the best podcast in the universe request that birthday shout out for my Darrow dad, David FU Gazetto senior who turned seventy seven today, and he still read for your courage and still reads the paper without glasses. Amazing. And that was shit. That's that's always executive associate executive producer, shut ten, seventy seven. So this is how the system works. We just ask you to send us whatever value you got out of the program. So if you like, what you hear you say, well, what was that worth to me? Can you compare it to something? Is there is there? I mean, I think some people say we bring them sanity or they feel calm. I mean, what is a Xanax prescription costs these days? You know, you could just send a fifty dollars to the no agenda show or more depends. This is what you see with our executive associates executive producers. Starts at two hundred dollars for the episode and these titles are these credits are real, and you can use them anywhere credits are recognized and accepted. We'll gladly back in linked in to just get you jobs. This is a fact, and we'll be thanking everyone else who came in fifty dollars and above in our second segment. Again, thank you so much. Remember we have another show coming up on Thursday, support us at lower dot org slash and a now that you're completely woke. You can go out and spread the gospel of the profit formula is this. We go up people in the mouth. Just a question for a European listeners, Jim Brown, the football player wasn't he also in. Some movie like comedy movie. Lies mostly in westerns played the tough guy. Wasn't he in something I wanna say, like airplane, but it wasn't that or he may have been an airplane? No. So police academy police academy. Thank police academy. That's right. Jim, Brown, no of was, is Bubba Smith was in police, go away go, no, no, no Hightower was that was that wasn't? Jim Brown was that was Bubba Smith who was Hightower Mars attacks? I think he was in that dirty dozen where they've been during those you'll find you did a lot of movies. He was a very famous actor did lot of movies now he was a tough guy. He life no going to call him dot com. He was non. There was this studio. He was he what each go in there and say, what did you call me? All right. Back in the day. Oh yeah. Hey, today he with his cane. Go be Donlon beat some Don lemon ass. Make some lemonade. By the way when we talk about something like this violence promoting, I wanna point out that you know, the Republicans are the ones with the guns, the Democrats, the ones that shouldn't have guns, there should be a legal. We've talked about in the last show, but here here's a, here's Nance Nicole. Wallis. She's the worst. She's looking pretty an aunt. She's looking pretty bad called him out. Yeah, it would have been a very, I told them everything that I thought he should've punched him in the face. This even if you lost, he insulted you're why glitter and call it Mexicans rapists, immerse, he's well. What do you think are so did I? So I think you should punch them in the face and then gotten out of the race would have been a hero. No, he wouldn't Adderall. She's an Admiral. She's on something. Yeah. I do have a little entre Mont. Okay. This is Alex Jones. I've got compilation, I put together. I only have this is just piece up one small piece of a very long piece which I'm going to take clips from every so often. We'll cross you. And the minute we revealed on their destruction. That. I do have a small eyeso- as a suggestion for ended show. Okay. Done, you're in your in your in. I'm gonna lead you into your Al Gore with a little climate change update from the van Jones show which I found. I found myself watching a lot of television with the keeper yesterday. Own show. Evangi has a show on CNN. Wow. Yes, it's a talk show with an audience and he's very pleased about it and looking forward to tonight by the way, what's his name? Alex. Alex, what's his last name? I can't remember for some reason, the guy who plays Trump on Saturday Night Live Alec Baldwin ally, not Alex as what got me. Alec Baldwin's gotta talk show and they're running it in prime time and NBC. Oh, I didn't even SNL last night. Didn't even watch. I did watch him stuff last night, which would come later. But here's van Jones, and he's talking about the report. Of course, the, we're all going to die within twelve years. Any brings on known climate change expert, Neil degrasse Tyson, Kuwait, he's an astrophysicist, but it doesn't matter. It's Neil degrasse Tyson everybody. What is the thing that worries you the most about climate? We've had relatively stable climate, no ice ages, no hot spelled, and we've had these ice caps that have remained primarily in Antarctica and Greenland. Oh my gosh. If you melt those ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica, the water levels will rise and come to the level of the statue of Liberty's elbow. Her elbow until you actually better than any of the clips have Mel go. You might as well play clip of the day for that one. Up to her elbow ideally up to our elbow. Bowl crowd, can we play the rest? Okay. So we're talking not so much. It was so hot, it's going to kill me. No, we're talking about sea-level change all the greatest cities in the world there on the ocean's edge on the river's edge. My point is, sorry Austin's not on the river's edge. What's going to happen? I, the coastal cities will get flooded the, you're not gonna just see water level slowly rise that will happen, but that's not what you're gonna. Notice I the storm swell that previously only brought the water to hear. Now breaches your city walls. We'll see it in the extreme of the weather and and this will destabilize the world. And you know, who knows about this is the military notable heading on his not doesn't have a debate insurance companies. Oh, that doesn't seem to be true. Seemed to be true. How about your your John? You're right there. One of the great cities of the world right on the coast you, you're going to be up to your elbow and water. What has your insurance change for your home? No, not at all. Oh, well. Clip in the last show. I think you had it about showing that one of the things or somebody expressed this, that the insurance companies are the guys that know what they're the ones with the money they have to. They can lose and they're, they've been insuring it the only place I know of where I know that there has been in effect is is in Biloxi because that storm that came in the one ten years ago, Katrina, I think with a slam there, it took all these coastal all the stuff that was right on the coast, right on the water and insurance companies. We're not going to pay for any more of this kind of thing. And so now it's all black. She's kind of stripped of all these beautiful mansions that used to be on the coastline because no one will build their because insurance is too high, but that's the only place I know of. This has happened all SNIA. Yes. Those about this, not because of rising sea levels is because of the possibility of a hurricane strike right there military, the Pentagon, no development heading on his no debate doesn't have a debate insurance companies, but you're saying. Our cities are at risk or civilizations are at risk going to displace a whole bunch of people in that could cause all kinds of wars faster than you could move the city inland. All right. So just. There's there's proof Neil degrasse Tyson says, your insurance rate is going up that is actually frightening, but I don't. I don't see any evidence of this happening yet. Neil digress. You know, which is this and this is what allegory. So Al Gore comes on PBS news with Judy, and just to give you an idea, I'm going to clip to this l. gore twelve trapped energy, a. This is about the science, you meant? Sorry, I was just gonna say this kind of an ask atom, but let's talk about the science. You mentioned it. There was this major report from the UN scientific panel, the group that you shared a Nobel peace prize with what about ten years ago, they are painting a much more alarming picture of what we face of than we had previously known. What is significant to you, what what is most significant in this report you? The language, the used in presenting it is torqued up a little bit appropriately. How do they get the attention of policymakers around the world. You know, the the, the man made global warming pollution accumulates in the atmosphere, and it stays there pretty long time and it now traps as much extra heat energy every day. So he saying it was kind of to coin a phrase trumped up to get everyone's attention. He's basically admitting it. He didn't use the word Trump up. I coined the phrase, yeah, tramp, yes, yes. But he says, did you hear the end? There is like a quit and open thing. He's going to give you the answer to it. I want you to see if you can just play it again the end. So we can then play the answer to what he's about to say. In other words, his conclusion I'd and I want you to try to listen carefully to what this would this really what he's saying. Go back to ten seconds. Here, you know, the the, the man made global warming pollution accumulates in the atmosphere and it stays there pretty long time and it now traps as much extra heat energy every day to what's the. I'm not sure what the question is it traps as much energy every day as well as oh, as so it's going to be a comparison. He's going to do a comparison. I want you to note it. I want you to write it down because every day this is what happens played clip be and it now traps as much extra heat energy every day as would be released by five hundred thousand erosion class. Exploding every day. Five hundred thousand Hiroshima bombs exploding every day. I thought we had a statistic like that clip previously in somebody out there who really wants to do it. I mean, I could do some research and do as I would like the math on that here I got something from an old clip and just see what this is as the warmed in the last day knees or not. Let's hear from both men firstly duct. It's gonna take too long there. There is something else that we had about her hero Shema, but I'll check that clip after the show. See what they said. I'm going to skip the clip because it goes on about how it's all sucked up by the ocean, which he talks about the then he talks about how the ocean getting so hot as create creating these superstorm. Of course, the first one was that one years ago that we hadn't had one for ten, but we're not gonna count debt. Here's another kind of interesting. I liked the way he phrases this. I think this is new. This is clip eleven. I think this is a new idea new way to put things though the scientists not only predicted these consequences, they're telling us they're going to get a lot worse still until we stopped using the earth's atmosphere as an open sewer for one hundred, ten million tons of man-made global warming pollution every single day. Wow, manmade global warming. Pollution is a sewer. What comes out of your hole is a sewer. We have a sewer using the atmosphere as as super nice. That was actually quite good. I'm gonna rename your clip to spell it properly and case. We're looking forward again now. Now. Let's listen to where I, where I picked up his tell when he's like noses, lying and he. He has a micro expression gun. We'll get into these little more factors. Of course I might take from the expert on it in this again, the bay area. Does this micro expressions or these little momentary mistakes you make to give away with your telling the truth or not, and they're used by the intelligence agencies and something. I mean example, well, you're going to have an example here. Let's play Al Gore. Ten store. This is this is Elgort storms get stronger. Not the ice, oh, but the delong more importantly, the scientific community has long been convinced and has been warning policymakers for some time, the earmarks of this latest storm. Judy are worth paying attention to starting with hurricane Harvey which hit Houston, Texas a year ago and dump five feet of rain. We have been seeing a new pattern and hurricane Michael intensified as it reached the coast, and that's something relatively new. And the reason for it is the the ocean waters are much warmer than normal. So it's not getting cold water's churned up to weaken the storm. It just keeps on getting stronger. Now, of course, this is bullcrap because Florence, which was the storm in between. Got weaker. Yes, it died right off. Died off and stuck there on the coast of North Carolina. But if you say it by saying, if you're Al Gore, you say, of course storms get stronger than you believe it. Now, here's the Tel two. If you can spot it, this is in the ice. Oh, okay. More importantly, the scientific community has they've little laugh community. His tell is having an awkward. Chuckle very, very small chuckle the enemy here, middle of a word that he knows his porno bullshit through Metairie with Megan. More. Importantly, the scientific community has he's laughing. He's actually laughing at the scientific communities like assholes. The do whatever. I tell them. Good. I have two more now. Bruce apples. That's where I was going to ask. Yes. Do we have examples now now I want to hear it in. You'll be able to pick them up. There's one where he actually does it three times. Can you use the telephone a sentence. The the north nervous. Laughter way he uses it to me is a tell that this is bullshit because you can. You can when you parse the whole sentence, you start to hear that will the assertions are awkward. Now, let's try this one. This is the global emergency clip and the and then the Tel in eyeso-. So we have a global emergency and you you use a very like that and. First of all, I'm gonna give you clip of the show for this. This is fantastic. So he's laughing at his own bull crap about it. Being global emergency of we have a global emergency and you. You use a phrase like that. And some people think it's bowl, crap immediately, say, okay, calm down. You know, the can't be that bad, but it is. And what the scientists have warned us in this recent report is that if we do not take action quickly to switch away from dirty fossil fuels and shift to electric vehicles and make agriculture and far three much more sustainable and deal with the waste loops and manufacturing all things that we can do, we know how to do them. We ought to be doing these things for other reasons anyway. But if we do not begin taking action very quickly and creating jobs in the process of the way, then the scientists warn us that the consequences. Is down the road would be far far worse than what we're experiencing now. Good. Actually extend to an existential threat to human civilization on this planet as we know it. Foretells in there? Yeah. So we start with the emergency, then the what was the second one. Well, there. The other one was just casually in there. I mean, there's just four of them in there, but the biggest one was this one which I have an ice, oh, would be far far worse than what we're experiencing now. There's no reason for that laugh to be in their less tell. Yes, that's just not true. It's not going to be far far worse. Now. Now, the one I got the biggest clip out of. Or biggest clip? I'm sorry, the biggest, it's okay. I'd like that too. I got the biggest kick out of this when Judy says something in the form of a question, and then Al Gore feels obliged to interrupt her because there is this thing going on is and it's it's actually he gives her a scolding for saying something that you can't say anymore. Oh, and he knows it. You can't say on PBS NewsHour you can't say it anywhere. You can't suggest that there's any alternative to his thesis. Sorry, any on one, you know, number of conservatives other scientists are saying the these dire future predictions are just not born out by evidence, but the thing is the political. Hold on. Hold on. Let me stop you there. When you say other scientists. These are the wrong scientists. Is that what I'm going to? He's going to now her a lecture about why she made a mistake and she should be scolded versus even suggesting. And now you're going to hear a number that we like to talk. We like to see our numbers. Ninety seven ninety seven ninety eight is where climate scientists ninety. This ninety, that all these everything gore has taken it up to a new level stop you there. When you say other scientists, not really. They're, they're a few. There are a few outliers, but you know, ninety nine percent of the scientific gonna tell Enitel tells, oh my goodness, you know, ninety nine plus percent of the scientific community is aligned on these objectives. Just you this just for now. I disagree. I think the Al Gore stuff is dynamite. Now here's the. Here's the thing that is he with this. What really bothers me. He does the Tel knowing it's bullshit ninety nine percent of the entire scientific community or no over ninety nine point nine nine nine plus ninety nine. He said he laughed and he does his little town in the middle, knowing it's a lie. He knows it's ally. We will reach one hundred percent if we have to kill every last one of them. And so he goes, but then he does this little trick at the end which I got. I was totally disgusted by this does not. This is just ridiculous. This isn't depart. Three of this is aligned on these objectives. You still have some people who say the earth is flat and not round, but you don't give them equal time and saying, some people say round. Some people say flat. Yeah, so sick don't give me go time. Don't give any dissenters equal time. Shut up slave to shut up anyway. So now this last clip is my last all nice and short. This is him condemning Trump and there's a tell in here and I don't even I so what I don't even bother because by now you can spot these mile away and here's the tail and here's discussing Trump his proposal is literally insane and his reaction to the scientific community's warnings is. An outlier reaction. I, it's making the US come off like a rogue nation and. Yeah, we're rogue nation. Yeah. This guy needs to be a necrotizing. How about that word? How about fact, he's even on with this blather and then he's obviously to me, lying through his teeth is just like it was. It was a twelve minutes segment on the news are that was uncalled for unjustified. It was just ridiculous. It had to do with the CDC report, but of course of corn gay gave him this. This grounds. This little nervous laugh in the middle of things on believe that was that ever. That's my l. gore, very good. I'll just keep it with the agenda. Twenty thirty and climate change for one last one. I've got here. The this most recent hurricane, Michael came out of nowhere. Forty, eight hours develop them was was in, and then it just died away. It was in a very awkward place, the panhandle, this is very uncommon for anything like that to happen up there. In fact, I think we got an Email from one of our producers. I don't have it here. But the there's something and I said, jokingly, oh, well, you know, it's time for the midterms and got some elections going on. We got the, oh wait. We have the global warming report report is out. We need to create a hurricane. Alright, flip on Harper. Let's do it here. But the here is what's interesting. This is local radio guy. Think Neil boots or he was or he was local from the area. And this is from his radio show. I went to high school in the Florida panhandle Pensacola went through a couple of hurricanes while I was there so mild that we could water ski in the bayou when the hurricane was going on. I know these towns of Panama City and Destin in Mexico beach. I cannot be leave the devastation that has occurred. The third most powerful hurricane Michael to ever hit the shoreline of the United States. A lot of people are suffering. A lot of people hurting very. Badly. I hope you can find the time to help somebody out there. The state of Florida is going to need some help too. You see the panhandle is a strong conservative area. It played very big in the two thousand election when they were calling the election for George W Bush before the polls were even closed. I wonder how many votes that cost. But now with the election, what twenty five days away will the infrastructure be there for those people in the panhandle to vote in the Florida elections, you have Rick Scott running against Ben Nelson who richly deserves to be put out the pasture, he's done nothing and you have this Andrew gillum guy running against Ron Disentis, Andrew Gillon friend of Bernie Sanders frizz, Andrew going this one of the biggest contested races that's going on right now. Everyone's talking about this Gullam guy. And so this freak storm once in a century storm happens there and he rightly points out, they may even have infrastructure to vote their coincidence. I think not totally interesting coincidence. I think not. It's one of those things just go. Well, there's a couple of things going on. I should mention my my new voters guide. Yes, I looked at your voters guide. I have a if anybody from California's for California's only I have the divorce dot org slash voter, single Jew, voter guide. I should probably put up a second page. Hold on. Hold on. Voter guide is not dot h. t. m. yes. How did you know. It's dot h. t. m. guests the modern way of doing just that you are elegant, divorce, dot org, slash voter, guide dot h. t. m. and that's the modern way of doing it. Yeah. Why is that? Because it has less letters. I was waiting two days for that answer. You didn't let me down. Well, you know, the funny thing about ATM versus HTML is h. t. m. came came out of Microsoft because Microsoft couldn't couldn't handle any more lead. I couldn't handle a four x four characters. In that era, you could not ever if you had an image that was image dot j. hag. Yeah, just what I don't get it. I can't can't open. It had to be j. PG and I think front page and all those programs out, put it in dot h. t. m. in the beginning they did good. Good and you if you go to word in and push pro, save as webpage shave is web page and always saves his age GM, but you can save it dot HTML than it will save it that way. Nice reluctantly. So I decided just to give an ATM. So anyways, voter guide that ATM or dot org. And it did for the propositions only now just so we understand not every state had in fact, Texas has no propositions. We do have propositions at the county level, but in California's a little different. California's one of the few states that has these statewide initiatives and propositions, and just as the kind of democracy that liberals want is most votes wins the proposition makes it. Yes, exactly. And the proposition, even though they sue and they do all this other stuff. And in fact, proposition, nine, which was the proposition, two, which is on the list there. The proposition to split the state into three pieces was struck down by court as an illegal proposition. Even though all the, they went through all this trouble them get it on the ballot and the ballot, just so the court took it off the ballot. Yeah, I did so much for you voters shut up with so much you for Tim Draper. That's it prop. Gotcha. And so I had I went to these problems because there's two or three of them, especially the one that really got me is proposition. Eight and proposition. Eight is a is nothing more than. Than take it in repealing a recent gasoline tax. Let me get this thing up for a good it up. It's taking you longer to get it up and then you stamp. Aide dot h. Proposition, eight get it, right. Yeah. Six. Six? Okay. Six proposition, six. There's all these ads vote. No, on six vote. No on six because all our infrastructure is gonna fall apart. And we talked about this on the show once before this is bowl, crap. Proposition. Six is nothing more than repealing a tax, grab gasoline tax, which was just added to the selene prices. Right. And what with that added for? I'm sure it was to pay for something to steal money. Okay. Just making sure that California's still up to their old tricks. Yeah. And so there's a huge. So I would be triggered me to do this California propositions, no agenda voters guide with a little cheat sheet at the bombing and take the anyway. I would recommend these. These are all. And I've looked at a couple of these other contradictory ones like proposition tan is another interesting one, whereas about about rents and as has, it seems to be trying. Vote? No, because of the a bunch of real estate investment trusts and other people with a lot of money that is going to hurt them anyway. There's that. So I, what I did was I got a I, this is the first year I did this. I know in Washington state is all vote by mail. So I, but you can do that in California if you put in a request. And so I got my package yesterday. My vote, my official election balloting material and comes in this big envelope with all these ballots real ballots and which I guess they put through the machine when they get it back. This has got to be five to ten dollars mailing per person bow. It's a real heavy package. It's got a lot of printed material. I was stunned stunned, I tell you, you do have to put your own postage on it, but. So Byun always vote by mail. I mean in wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait a minute. You have to put your own postage on it. I don't. Yeah, it's not postage paid. No. If it was US government voters. Oppression. Real. Yeah. Maybe they should pay for it. I get. I have mail from banks say no postage necessary is says, if digital postage require, I understand, but that's voter suppression. You need actual money to do that kind of voting. You need to stamp money. I don't think the reason I bring that up is because Texas is always I was doing some of this based upon what you were doing and I wandered off into some other spot and they found out that, you know, Texas suppresses everybody because we have voter ID laws. If you do not have an idea which is recognized which is quite an extensive list of photo ID you can come in with a check a government, check a utility Bill, anything like that will allow you to vote. So I don't know about all this. It's it's hurting black people because they don't have ID all you need a government check. I think you know, not now by the way. I mean, the whole statement is racist and they're, you know, minorities can't get it because they don't because they don't have an ID. They can't go to the DMV, but I presume if you're thinking that way they do have a government check. Then we've already debunked this with the black community would did a number of videos on, hey, we all have ideas. Yes, of course. We're not stupid. For texas. I'm I am. The the main thing is there's no props, but Austin has propositions. We have a nine hundred fifty million dollar bond, and I'm voting against all pieces of it and I'm voting against mayor. Steven Adler who I think is just a week. Douchebag is not. I mean, for example, our we have two hundred and fifty million dollars for here comes low cost, housing, affordable, housing. No, this never worked in Austin, never ever. And if it would work, it will become an instant ghetto. There's nothing in there for the homeless. Does nothing for what's going to happen with this huge influx of people. Transportation is no, no great ideas. So I'm voting against all of it. And mainly Steven Adler are fine mayor of Austin. Bait amid right, beta male extraordinaire now, as you know, I'm really, I'm really irked about the scooter situation and I have an update for you, and I believe that these companies, these Silicon Valley companies in their era Gance because they are era Ghent Cox have made a huge mistake. They've underestimated a massive point of their business models. So to reiterate, these are the electric scooters that are dropped into a city without any coordination with the city to gain market share to be the first one to do it and the smartphone you can ride around with it. We've had a Austin city limits these past two weekends, ACL, lots of people riding scooters. I want to say I'm very pro electric scooter. I think it's a fantastic mode of transportation, but mayor Adler. We do need to have some rules and we need to hold these companies accountable. When you know when the people are driving over people on sidewalks, people are getting hurt unnecessarily. The regulations are unclear, people can't acce. You know, there's always the wheelchair access. These things are parked everywhere thrown about and you've done a very poor. He's in a very poor job of anything to do with that. But San Francisco is in this case, an interesting model for Austin, what they did is they have now sanctioned. The bylaw this. Okay, we now the city's transit agency. You said, you know what? We're gonna. Let let Trich scooters back onto a streets, but only if you would hear to our regulations and they had a an, have it in the show notes. You can take a look at it. You know, you have to have, you know, certain the scooters have to adhere to certain specifications, but also need people on the ground who were able to assist people. And the eight companies bid for this wasn't like they were just going to choose one. They said, okay, you have to that a rating, fair poor, poor, fair, good, excellent. If someone wants a helmet kidding. So one company. Actually will provide you on and what they did is the guys who were in early the early birds so to speak, didn't get permission. And they're, they're incense because this is Silicon Valley. Well, we're, we're, we're Uber. We bought this bike company. We put it in I, we should be on the streets of San Francisco, but this is where they made a mistake. They thought just like the car model. We just flood every city with Uber's. They thought they could do the same with scooters, but the thought the process thought process they they made the mistaken is these scooters are not owned by individuals who were driving around the seats streets of San Francisco or Austin already there your property and therefore they can be impounded. They can be forbidden and your your model of going in and flooding. The market is not working. Now, it's smaller guys, local companies, although arguably those some of the lime and bird are low runs. Yeah, possibly. And they may be acquired, but I like it and they've made a mistake by thinking that they that they're God almighty, they can throw anything they want. That's really the thing that maybe the most angry is what do you think you are like a good idea, but let's do it properly and not just throw shit into everyone street which is now happening in Copenhagen even so I will give props to the city of San Francisco for doing that. I thought that was really good. And I like watching these asshole. Squirm. Because I really despise them. Well, I read an article about this whole thing and I don't think people understand that apparently the reason was gotten onto this Jags. So enthusiastically is like about a ninety day payout to break even on the on the scam. It's like ninety days to break even to break even on what on the cost of the whole adventure. Per scooter or just in general? The whole? No, this scooter deal ninety days. We have something like ninety days, you put this scooters out there and with the depreciation and the taxes and this and that. And the other thing, as I said that, yes. Ninety days later you're you're now making money. Yeah, even if the scooters thrown in the bay, you're making money. Right. Well. Again, I'm I'm for it. I'm not against it. I'm not. I'm not for it. Well, awesome. That I think is actually a great idea. But you have to have some rules and mayor Adler as it just is not doing well in one of these guys goes bombed by and knock on your ass on what you think. Before we take a break, I want to have the unhidden Trump hater of the week. This is a voice we have not heard from before. I would say it rivals, rob Reiner, very, very close and something I'm noticing actually I've made because I was going to bring it up. I've cussed more than usual on today. Show. But this seems to be the norm with Trump hate, is that you know, look at Kathy Griffin look at Robert deniro who I think Robert deniro really gave license to everybody who hates Trump to use profanity. And of the profanity or cuss words can be completely Jim it and can be very effective. If you're very, you're much better than I am. I have to read, so that's why you know. So I think about it happens. And so this guy I liked as a as an actor comedian, Robert Klein was caught outside a restaurant, and I think he's are unhinged trumpeter of the week about the Russians interfered in our election and he colluded with them. There is lots of proof of it. They had a meeting, didn't they? How about an eleven? How about twenty two people have been been indicted eleven Russians. Mr. Manafort all these people having dieted there pleaded guilty. They. Guilty. He's any other administration of a man. So close to the president pledged guilty for taxes. He begun what if Obama at fucked pornographic actress. I love how he says fucked, but won't say porn. Star somehow gets a hold of himself. And I have to say that nicely. I have to say pornographic actress because I don't want to offend the porn community or something like that. This very interesting. What if Obama at fuck day pornographic actress. Ten years before being in office. Excuse me a few months after his wife gave birth. This is a president United States years before he's who gives a fuck twenty is Trump well that you have at your problem. That's wonderful. He's a great guy. Couldn't even introduced me properly at the mar-a-lago when added gig and you like now we find the true source of his anger. I guess Trump flubbed the name, Robert Klein at a at a mar-a-lago gig. That's wonderful. He's a great guy. You couldn't even introduced me properly at mar-a-lago when added geic and you like Trump? I do. I like what I like that tax cut and you're like, those catches good for you. You're in American. I'm thinking out of control. The typical Trump voter. Wait a minute. Together. Born in Maryland. Has become. Well, Robert Klein has been out of the picture for so long, but he has a notorious kind of hard to work with the guy. Let's put it that way. He seems like a gem I might hanging out with them. Imagine all the people who could do pull. Yeah, that'd be. We do some people to think for show ten seventy seven starting with the Garin turbiville turbiville turbiville I can't really figure that one out. I wonder forty two dollars. Kyle Olin mine in Cincinnati, Ohio. Senate check in for one hundred and forty dollars and under. And the note on the check said, show production. Those show production. Very nice. Thank you, Jackie, right, sanity and show production. I don't think you can put that make the most sense Dame tenue the viscount of New York City hundred eleven dollars and eleven cents. He's got a apparently some birthday retroactive birthday list for her and was. Wish we had known really yes late and you know, Richard Clayton Markham Ontario under eleven dollars and eleven cents. The thallium. Man buck bucket, JAL buckle Joe buckle because yo- because y'all backout Joe, that cash back at you. You're one hundred and Spillers in Karaz it. Virginia's a spook name. I've ever heard one. What's crosby'd Virginia where the deep state lives. I don't know Peter Naumann in Bangkok, Thailand hundred dollars Barron, Marquette, seven eighty nine in Whittier. Christopher debtor fifty-six seventy s or Greg of the parts on known fifty, five, ten. The following people are fifty dollar donors were done fast today. Robert Webber in San Jose, Patricia Dane, Patricia Worthington in Miami, Florida. She's constantly helping us out Brandon of rock port orchard. I think he's third night, sir. Mark Johnson, Aurora, California, Gary Arcus in Perth, Perth, lurches back on the list person. Why I keep saying Washington is Western Australia. Perth haven't had Perth on the, you know, the pure pursers don't like us. No, no, no purpose do like us living in a lot of people in Perth, trees. Green is beautiful. The complete other side of Australia. Yeah, Keith Yarborough in Austin, Texas. Hey, you know him. John Hallier Missoula Montana, Trevor Hoaglund in Portland, Oregon, and last, but not least in the short list, Michael Coleman and the Woodland's and other Texan says he's appreciates the humor and feeling. Politically agnostic. I try to acknowledge the competence. I happen to see this guy in this Colorado gubernatorial debate year in Texas. Well, and we wanna thank these folks are helping produce show ten seventy seven and everyone who came in under that for reasons of anonymity. But a lot of you also on our subscriptions, I cannot stress how important these are. These are smaller amounts, but they come there recurring and we really appreciate that because that's just kind of a little base that we have, which is really nice. We could grow that a lot more to please consider supporting the show that way I wanted to mention. I got this another weird gift, and I wonder if had gotten him from Ryan Showalter it's I guess he works at a valve and casting company IS. Yeah, he sent me a nice note. He's as third generation or second generation of guy who said he said he was very pleasant note. Let me explain what I have because I didn't have a note. There was no note deli just as card. And so it's it's as Fresno valves. I have an ice cream scoop and a bottle opener, and they're very cool. I'm they really look interesting, and I presume they're made from valve. No, no, that made they look like they're from valve handles. No, they're cast explain the no actual castings and it may be a handle part of the casting, but you do, you make castings as you make mold, and then you put sand around is a long process by used to inspect these places. So I wrote it talked about it and he said that he was listening to the show. And when I was bitching as like, do will very rarely says, you know, I heard what you said about the second and third generation kids not taking any interest in what their dad was doing. The business that they started or respectfully. The third generations have been my experience and they just say, screw it. We don't want to have anything to do with it. We want to go off and do something else we want to want to become ourselves or they wanna find something. He said he took it to heart and he says, he said he's dad's business was the was being big valve casting operation vows I do manhole covers. I don't know what they can cast things like those what you got to two gifts. And those are most of these foundries are called founders is owned a foundry. These foundries usually make a number of gimmicks that they give away to their customers, and I think those are okay. Campuses show the style of the casting. It's like, you know, interesting as those are both nice, the ice cream scoopers particularly, and it's sharp too was designed for the parlors s it's the flat kind of trot trowel like where you dig in there and you can get a trial. Yes, trowel that is the right word. And so he's said, and he's a went back and he's decided to take it very seriously. And now he's entrenched as. Guy running a foundry which by the way, has got to be a kick. Well, okay. Remind me I have a note from a teacher right after we're done with the segment because people do listen to us and take things to heart even though I'm glad he took it to heart because it's he must have been eating at him because it seems to me that if you just happened to mention disa- coincidences of cosmic thing, I guess you just have to say something that just sounds the trigger something wait. I mean, I was just thinking about that, but that's how the how this, how the value network operators, the value network operates in strange ways. We don't always understand it, but it does. And again what we do, we do thank you all very much for supporting the show. Please remember us. This was light today. We could do better on Thursday show. You can go to Laura dot org slash and and make a donation as requested some jobs, Carmen. Jobs, jobs and jobs that's John. Karma. Today's the day for your taxes are really, really knew after the extension. It is October fourteenth. Two thousand eighteen belated birthday today. Tanya by Countess of New York City's you celebrated on October six today, we have to happy birthday to rusty Dutch that comes from so pot and serve funk. Katie Cavanaugh says happy birthday to her man, Sean Cavanagh turning thirty eight and David Fukuzawa does as happy birthday was father. David focus, oh, senior who turned seventy seven today. Happy birthday from everybody here at the best podcast in the universe. And then we have one ninety. So that will be rusty Dutch. And so we might as well get our unrest, it'd swords ready for him. I raise all greased up what she said. All right, rusty dot top up to the podium ear right next to the lecture and you're about to join the lustrous group of our no agenda knights dames for your contribution and supported the show and the amount of one thousand dollars. And therefore I am very proud to pronounce decay the sir gasket of the region. And for you, we have hookers and blow rent boys in Chardonnay. We've got crack rock and fishing. Rod, we got warm beer and cold women to. We've got zucchini and Meatloaf. We've got parliaments and pale rabbit meat and goat milk trophies entire smoke. We got fish pine, Felicia. We got harlison hound doll peppermint roles and pails redheads and rise. We got into Mead. Oh yeah. June drilling gerbils budgets and bourbon breast milk in public may already said mutton and meat, so kinda screwed it up, but go to Noah, just the nation dot com slash rings and that's where you can hand over your girth and your dimensions. Chill will make sure you get your info as soon as possible that you ring your certificate and your ceiling, lex. Thank you. Divorce dot org slash in. Hey, here's that note. I wanted to read. Why I had a note. I had no teacher, yeah. And now why can't I find my note all of a sudden, this is bad hormone. Well, here we go. This is from a beers. A teacher, Adam high school English teacher in canton Avia. I just wanted to thank you for referencing the short story titled Harrison Bergereon by Kurt Vonnegut after hearing about it on your podcast, I immediately looked into it and had my students read and deconstruct the short story. The results were amazing. I just want you to know how aware students are about this pendulum swing of hyper equality and its impact. My students clearly articulated variety of opinions about how all these social Justice groups are actually creating a more divisive society in the end. I was proud of how well my students could see the Air's in society and discuss them in non judgmental environment. Unlike the universities today openly and freely. There is hope for the future. Your show and the work you and John and doing is having an impact directly and indirectly on more people than, you know, keep up the good work, and we wish. Buzzkill. Now here was a if this is real. It was one of our producers Sanit to me, it's a parent. He picked it up with a microphone off of a k. u. owed w. a. k. o. w. broadcast it when they had their little, it's this is a public broadcasting, NPR kind of a station, and this is what what he heard and it was like, and by the way, it seems to me to be a violation of their advertising policy because there was a call to action in this in this advertisement that one of those always sponsored by Sony underwriter and listen to this, you w Tom water w Bellingham support for k. w. comes from the Central Intelligence Agency's directorate of operations where mission and impact meet to address global challenges, learn more at CIA dot gov, slash careers, discover the truth. Six o'clock. The payoff is great. Here's a payoff boss discover the truth. That's what it's going to be. I think it's real. I told you that Gina mccaskill was out recruiting. She was doing a speech at some university, and the whole thing was a recruitment session. Got recruiters. They're ready to signing people up left and right will they had to. I mean, people do in tens of thousands of people work for the CIA and so they have to hire them from some place. Yes, of course. Of course, I just thought it was strange at a public broadcasting station would use them as their underwriter. All discover the truth. Great, discover the truth. We've got it here. It's or create the truth is whatever you want. CIA lots of capabilities. So last night. Just disgusted with the the news, broadcasts, I wound up switching to HBO Nile. I trust a lot on HBO. Unlike Amazon and Netflix, because even though it may not be something I want HBO has quality stuff, it's top notch. And so it was a couple of things I watched. They wanted to discuss. First of all, I have to say hands down. Are you familiar with flight of the conchords? You know, these guys know about ten years ago, they had a show that's two guys from New Zealand, and they play mainly guitar. But lots of different instruments. And they have very funny lyrics and it's a comedy bit, and it's it was very successful and they've come back and they've done a special and I just wanted to mention, you have to watch this because at a certain point, they're doing a song and they both break into a recorder solo. But I mean like like p towns and style. So you have to watch this because I was crying. It was so good and I thought of us, obviously like there's an idea for us. But record on the road who and then recorder solo. You should see the the flight of the conchords. Okay, I'll check it out. So that was on HBO. Then even though they aired in a different order because I was on the on the Roku box, ending all of my information to Roku headquarters. Bill Maher wanted to watch that. But I, I watched the very first video version of a podcast is very exciting for me as the podfather. Yes, this is the pot America. Yes. Decided to put it on HBO. They decided to put it on the HBO. That's correct. And I was excited for them and I have heard of this podcast. I have listened to it. I believe it is you'll but podcast. No, no, it is to the former Obama speechwriters. They're both in this podcast. There's one guy who's kind of the comedian. They have a girl in there and so they, they actually get morning zoo little bit. They took the whole podcast and then they do it on stage in front of a live audience. It was very, very animated. But this podcast is pretty much one thing and one thing only including a little edited segment on how to canvas. It is completely a democrat party. Democratic Party funded voter drive from beginning to end and not in making. It's not a new show. It is a show to get you to go vote for Democrats and to hate Republicans and to it particularly hate Donald Trump. I was telling you it was right. So I have two clips from it. I was telling you earlier how I feel that you know, most people you and I'm not that way I have. I have some mental issues too Retz. Neurological issue I should say. But in general, most people have a filter where they don't cuss too much. They don't use the f. word too much, you know, once in a while maybe, but I believe that barrier has been broken and it happened. It certainly license was given to everyone after deniro's said, fuck Trump. Well, can I also mentioned something. I think that the excessive Cussing you hear on podcasting is a is a form not not necessarily depuy form by form of virtue signaling. Look at me. I can cuss cuss cuss cuss cuss because I'm because I'm a flying counter. Yes. Yes, that's part of it. But you know, even Howard Stern had this when he first went on Sirius XM coming from public airwaves and everyone was f- this f that, and then they kind of had to had to reset themselves because there was too much freedom and the show was really sucking. It wasn't funny and he figured that out very quickly. But there has a threshold amongst angry Americans just call the mango. They're left or right, but has been surpassed, and the effort is being used everywhere. I'm going to give this one example in this clip. This was right at the beginning of the show with the girl. I forget her name and we'll just have a listen. Normally I wouldn't associate the word strategy with Donald Trump, but he's been using this line quite a bit. And other Republican candidates have been talking about, you know, George Soros funded left-wing mobs for the last couple of weeks. What do you think the Republican goal is here? Well, first of all, I think the fact that this is something that bringing up this close to the. Election is a reflection of the fact that they're scared as fuck. And the reason. And the reason that I think they're very scared as fuck if you will. As the old saying goes is, is that people who are being fucked over are realizing that they're being fucked over and they're not going to fucking take it anymore. People, those people who are being fucked over in most in a lot of cases are women people of color, immigrants people who are marginalized, and I don't think it's any mistake isn't the definition of being marginalized getting fucked over. I mean you, you could actually have just replaced over with marginalized throughout your little speech. The grants people who are marginalized, and I don't think it's any mistake that Republican messaging which originates from Donald Trump. At this point uses word that those people would also use to insult women and people of color like women are used to being told that they're unhinged hysterical, they're crazy, and I think that the president and people that are in her circle, using those words as a reflection of their kind of inherent sexism and racism. Yes, hopefully. Yes, you say unhinged you're sexist and racist, even though that's not a word that Ord originated with the Republican side of the debate. So I'm not going to play the second clips. I want to move to something else, but they had this game called, okay, stop which is pretty much what our show is, except the way they do it all show you how they do it very game. We call okay. Stop. And when the panel can say, okay, stop at any point to comment. Well, some cities on Florida's panhandle still reeling after hurricane, Michael Trump took time from his busy schedule of holding rallies to finally do the right thing. Have lunch with Kanye west. Folks that CNN had a lot to say about it. So then what they do is they basically played the clip with anyone on the panel can say, okay, stop and it's really bad. It's like five minutes of bad. They don't even they don't even get to Don lemon even really saying anything rage. It's just stupid. Is this really, really low rent? Low quality, not well thought out and. Except for the cursing. And you take the cursing out and they adjusted themselves. It sounds like a real, very mediocre PBS show that you hear on Saturdays, kind of like, wait, wait, don't stop me. Wait, wait, wait, wait, don't tell me whatever it's called. Yeah, and there's another one. There's two or three of these shows on PBS that were like that, and they're all kind of their glib glib, their condescending, they're patronizing and they said very, no, it all kind of left wing. That concludes our very, I find him Burra chef. That concludes our review of pod, save America on HBO. Now, Bill Maher. This was one of the best shows I have seen by have a number of clips. It was really, truly outstanding. Every type of personality was represented, but it started off with Omarosa who of course has promoted her book. She. She lives. She does live and she had a lot to say and. Before I before I mentioned that I was, I watched the whole show Bill Maher I think is has something going on. He may not be well, he, he has the kind of like that big Al Sharpton head on an oversized suit that you can tell ill-fitting because he's really skinny underneath and his hands are really big. But the rest of his body is it's less in proportion than usual, and I'm a little concerned he might be could be fit. There'd be could be this suit itself as making him look. Then he really needs to work on that because it makes them look sick. You know, the pencil net kind of thing. Some worry word I on on a diet. Well, he can slow down now. So he brings on Omarosa Omarosa and only pull two clips. The one that I. I pick this panel or no, no. Sugar was the main guests. She was the special guest and and she was really like miss Shannon coming out. I'm sure it's racist of me to say, but. And so Bill Maher had a lot of questions and he and of course, he what he wanted is, hey, what is Trump really like? And you'll hear in here. She says something she refers back to Bill Maher getting fired after nine, eleven. I just want to reiterate for our international producers, two weeks after nine, eleven Bill Maher had a show. I think it was. Was it on FOX stations even? No, no, I believe it was on ABC ABC I believe it was on ABC and it was called politically incorrect and is pretty much the same show he's doing now. Yes, and it was a great show to watch it what it was a head of its time. But then he said, I thought it was good and it never liked it. Okay. I thought it was good and two weeks after nine eleven. There was a discussion and everyone's talking about these cowards, these cowers these cowards who killed all these people, these cowards, and he said, I'm paraphrasing. They weren't cowards. They flew them selves into building, so you can't call him a coward and he was off the air. It's worse than that. Oh, just to add to your paraphrasing. I don't have it either, but it went more like this coward car cards, just what you said. And he says, I think people that fire missiles from ships off into they are, they're all right. Your right ear, the cowards, we the American military or the coward. Yeah, it was worse than you're right to. He got yanked. The show was gone and he didn't surface for years. I have no idea what happened to him until he kind of came back. HBO didn't track him. So she makes reference to this. And in a way appropriately Em-oth. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. Of course. Of course, Heather, listen, we're going to find out what Trump is really like it. I'm just saying just because somebody's nice to you. I mean, you certainly must've known. He was a joy at liar. I don't think is personality change. We know it didn't change when he got to the White House. So you must have seen the racism and the hatred and the lying before you know, it's easy to say that hindsight is twenty twenty years ago. I didn't know that Donald Trump was going to be as insane and unhinged that he as he is. I mean, he's between her then when you knew him on the furnace greatly, even just his his vocabulary, he is like six words that he says now huge very soon. Great back in Borchert wrongly, strongly back in the word, but. Okay. Okay. So so back in the day, how many did he know he knew a lot more than just KoKo the gorilla new five hundred. But. I never did like you, you're fine. But I what I, the one thing I didn't like is when after you guys got elected and you said that thing about everyone's going to how down to Donald Trump that that's not the way of talking, oh, you of all people know without saying that like that one thing that everybody just it was the. The first guest is ride that exact. I could actually argue the merits, but but we'll move on. He's still not over it. I could argue the merits of it, but we'll just move on you stupid woman. Well, you know, I think what really bugged him was that he knuckled under the opinion was valid. He could say what he wants. Right. But he then he cow toll himself. Sorry. I mean, it was almost like Kathy Lee Griffin after she held the head to fake head of Trump all bloody. You mean cash griffis after we're trying to get her life back and then she regretted doing it. It's not Kathy Lee Griffin that's Kathy Lee Griffith. Kathy griffin. I'm like, wow, I'd had of weird picture. All right. But yes, you're right. He's wrong. Kathy Lee, he's pissed off that he did that he'd bowed down there. It is the bow down the Trump and he had to bow down everybody else. He's double pissed off about it because I could actually argue the merits, but but we'll move on, but it was stupid. It was dumb, and it was the height of the campaign hyperbole it, you know, certainly I don't believe that everybody's going down, but at the time I had an audience of one when you work for. Okay. Entertain the audience you're trying to enter. Okay. That's the honest answer. The audience of one is is what's so much of this country is off track about all of Fox News is for an audience of. Okay. Have you seen the Fox News ratings and audience of one? This is this is delusional thinking. That Fox News is there only for Donald Trump? Yes. Any? They don't even do very good job of catering to him as far as I'm concerned, but now come some really good insight. What are. Jared, any Vonk alike. And this is extremely interesting, but I think what Omar Omarosa implies here and what she says is is very, very disgusting. Okay. Or what about a Bunka and Jared, what is all them? White House kin in White House. Barbie. Everybody hazard. Are they smart. She's making a face like. I mean, Jared is the one that is the most inscrutable to me. I can't get because he doesn't speak I. He's the one that would be most curious to have dinner with because he might be smart. No. Okay. His political career guarded when Donald Trump decided to announce that right? And so he he, he's that guy in the room, but thinks he's the smartest guy in November. Absolutely. No, I know we know he's not knowledgeable about the field. Is he smart? You didn't even know basic political jargon. And when you try to correct him, he gives you that kind of posture like, are you going to color really trying to tell me something. And so the sad thing about it about Jared is that he doesn't know how stupid he sounds when he's talking. Learning. That's very interesting. Vonk is Trump really hot for her. Is that a thing. He said it. I'm just going to say. This daughter, it's pretty. It's pretty daily. Basie with Pat her on the high. He kissed her on the lips. He would run very long periods of time that game. Did he did she say he wanted to sleep with his daughter. Of course, he doesn't what she said. I know. Of course you didn't. He said he said, I, if I wasn't as father, I dated her. I was younger something like it was about dating her. Yes, but he never said he wanted to sleep with her. No, she just shows that out in his fine with everybody and everyone's all y'all. Yeah, I guess so. Wow. Right. I mean, it was pretty talking awkward. Like one of those old. Nine. Seven, six. In front of people. Yeah, absolutely. What was what did she do? Excuse me. I need a little. What was the reaction to that? She just loved it. She loves being daddy's girl, love being daddy's little girl and she would always say my daddy, and they should correct yourself. My father thinks and I'm like, we're this accent. Come from. I fifteen years wasn't talking that she had a very potty mouth. Maybe she cleaned it up for for the White House. Okay. Well, thank you for putting up with my questions. I think that's going pretty far really implying that there's incest going on between the president list. The list, but she's brave enough to go and do it. It's on the list done. So I'm going to stay with politically incorrect because he had three guests on what's the most interesting was was this Muslim guy named Riley and it's it's relevant in this Brown, he's Muslim Riaan Salaam, he's the editor of the national review is that's up. Make a right winger. I don't know what the national review is. Now. This is the guy that I pointed out before that has replaced Brooks Brooks and shield Friday news rundown. Well, I like this guy and he is much better than Brooks. He's he's not quite as forward as he could be. Could be a little mean nice guy Brooks is the right the right wing of the Brooks and Dunn Cipro's in the right way, but it should hates Trump and he doesn't like to monitor publicans and these kind of old fashioned, moderate type. But I think he's a democrat and he said, I think he said he was a democrat once we caught him on it with a clip. But beside the point when this guy, this Salim guy comes on. He is far superior to to Brooks and far superior to Shiels. He should be a regular doing that bit with somebody else. Besides Brooks, I'm he's besides Brooks and besides shields, they need to new guys. Well, I have one clip and it'll be the final one of this triage where this guy is just he's really smart, really good, and just slams people without them even realizing is fantastic. So also on the panel was what is her name? I just seen her on book TV. Okay. I'm so sorry. I don't remember what her name was very angry woman. The book is about angry women. That's part of the title is you know the validity of America's angry women. Sorry, I wish I had her name. Not what happened also though is eighty globe junior. He is professor at Princeton University and he's black. So we had the white woman who wrote the book about women being angry. We have the Muslim who is the the right winger in this case and we have you would think the the, the impartial professor, the Princeton professor was black. So this is your way. Do we know this guy's actually a Muslim because I was, yes, it was made clear on this show. Okay, good. Yeah, in the introduction and he talks about some Muslims stuff as well. So we start off and this is what really caught my eye. We, we had the situation. I think you brought it up on the last show about Scott Kelly. Astronaut who had. Tweeted, well, you tell you it was your story. He said he just used Winston Churchill quote and was slammed by the Twitter Twitter verse and l. bunch of lefties going on and on about how Churchill was a horrible, racist pig, and then they went on and the guy knuckled under. Okay. I'm sorry. Churchill's a bad person. And this is part of the whole, tearing down the statues and anyone who's white is a creep. So Bill Maher who is always been against political correctness. As we just said, his first show was called politically incorrect, and and he brought the story up cut out all the part of him explaining it, and he was, he's like, what the hell is this? This is an astronaut. Why? Why? What does this political correctness about? And he had the right panel to explain it. This is the guy who saved his from the Nazis. And you know, he's, he was a fighter pilot married to Gabby Gifford who was shot and bravely continues on and somebody and people on Twitter and. No one denounces and he has to make an apology. This is when the Trump people go, yes, you people are too fragile to being in control of the government. What? What was the case? What if this is the black professor and chiming in, we'll be Rebecca traced her. She is the the white woman. The author is the case that that that he realized that the invocation of Winston Churchill wasn't consistent with what he out that he didn't know everything about search, he'll and then he realized that Churchill in nineteen forty three sanctioned right? The starving of India's and Bengal's. He realized in fact, that Turcios was in fact a vehemently committed racist to the imperial project. He realized that touchy, oh, did not represent. So what I mean by this say, this really quickly for those who have been caught under the foot of history, he just can't simply invoke the mandate of history as a reason to accept certain figures. Before you can't just. Lincoln. Just listen to him because he's explaining not only explaining why Churchill was a bad guy. He's explaining what political correctness actually is the act of politically correcting people. This is this is very important. Of course, you can't just. So Lincoln comes to me, I can. I can embrace ABRAHAM LINCOLN, right? I can embrace his view of democracy, but then I realized that Lincoln hill the view that might people matter more than people. Now what's I understand? Lincoln fully? I can then embrace on my own terms, but I cannot accept Lincoln just because the west declares him as great. I have to accept him like every time I do. I have to apologize. I. What we write off as politically political correctness is correcting a record that has been simple that we haven't been taught the complexities that the power that we so often are taught to celebrate or admire purely is built on inequity and bias that is not often revealed to us, and it's a matter of correction. And the other problem is that when we focus on these things like the Twitter controversy around hailing a hailing Winston Churchill, we're, we are taking part in representing this as left activism. This is a left wing when, in fact, are strikes going on strikes for higher wages strikes against central. But we would focus on the flare ups on Twitter and not on the record numbers of women. People of color running for office in the first for the first time, and we can do. All right. So she she's just a little. I'll just say hysterical, but, but she makes the point now I understand the black man. I'm just going to call it the way I literally saw my own is the black man. Professor says, do you can't embrace people unless you knew everything about them, then you can embrace them when you know the good and the bad, which I think is every person has good and bad. And then she says, that's right. You have to correct everybody, political correctness correcting everybody on the record. So you make sure your balanced. I think he also used or he or she was hailing church. All he did was quote Churchill with a two liner that had something to do with what he was doing. It had nothing. It wasn't hailing Churchill. He was just doing he put the random quote in there and didn't put Churchill's name on it. I someone once said, quote, unquote, would these would this have happened. What is this this? This is really very targeted. If you ask me this is extremely fishy. No, it's what political correctness is. Even a quote is no longer valid in less you virtue signal by saying something like he may not have been the best man buddy said this see then it would have been okay because you have to constantly in political, correct America, both sides. And this comes up in a minute. You have to correct the record is has to be correct. Now, this takes place. Now Ray hunt, what has just thinking to myself what needs to be corrected everything. Here's about Churchill's history. In the nineteen thirties. He said this, this poignant quote, and this guy just quoted him. I'm not doing. I'm not arguing that I'm saying, this is what it is. This is what you know that, but I'm just just so baffled when I understand it seem so extremely upset about all these little things there. This is aunt fucking, yes, and it gets better. So now this just a quickie this the first time Ron Salaam jumps in, and he says, he's trying to explain something like hold on a second. This is this is not good. Everyone in America feels like they're losing right now. Democrats feel like they're losing Republicans feel like they're losing Democrats feel like they're locked out of power. Republicans feel like they've lost the culture and it really is true. Maybe you don't agree with that perception, but there are people who really feel as though their values are being faced, they feel like hounded minority and it's crazy as that might sound the people who disagree with them. I think that feeling is real. I think they're performing loss in a moment of victory. I think it's deeply genuine. I think that people really do feel a genuine sense of loss and a loss of cultural power, and you're right to suggest that people think that politic. Power and the exercise of political power is one way to push back against a culture that really does. He'll I think he's got some. He's gone to something there, the culture loss of culture? Yes. I think that's exactly what the Republicans are feeling. They feel loss of culture because the culture in America which is television and movies mainly is very left leaning. So they feel the loss of full the loss of culture and Democrats feel they've been locked out of power. So he's making a good point. This is not a Bill. Maher doesn't like this guy at all. By the way, he's just there to provide some semblance now he'll won't be back then. I think he will. This is the final, the final clip. We're going to go back to the political correctness with professor Eddie globe, and you heard him in that first clip. He actually said she, she should don't interrupt me. He said that two Muslim guy, Brown Muslim guy. It's calm. It's easier. Black professor guy, white angry, woman Brown Muslim guy, and he is going to now really tell you what he's feeling is. And he speaks in this case, I guess on behalf of black America. Which this then he gets slammed by rayon. Salaam gets slammed by the black professor. You'll hear it. The guy comes back at the end are Brown Muslim friend, and he puts them down and speak so powerfully about the cult in America, the political cult. I thought it was just one of the best things I've ever seen this really odd. I find it odd for a couple of reasons. One, I think we take the exaggerated example to dismiss the principal. So at the heart of political correctness is this reality that this country is no longer a white nation in the vein of old Europe say. So that means white men, white straight men can't walk around saying whatever the hell is on their minds. They made it. White straight men. Old straight white men can't speak their minds in this country. Yeah. Tell to the podcast so that means white men, white straight men can't walk around saying whatever the hell is on their minds. Right? I'm not going to make, so let's got Kelly can't say no. What putter show without a? No, I take Scott Kelly. I take him to say that I don't. I didn't know everything about you and Winston Churchill probably doesn't represent what part of what I'm trying to do that. Is this right? The country's changing dramatic demographic shifts are happening. So people incidents, you're because the culture is shifting and what are the things that shifted folk can't go around saying they. What did I think it's really important is that people were white. Men can't go around saying whatever they want without being held to account that is what political correctness is. You can't just say something. If you're anything this, you're white, then you'll be held to account, and you will be read the record as it is proper. What did I think it's really important? This is the people who are most vulnerable to this are people of color who hold dissenting opinions in their communities. These are people who really feel silence interest who. Who. That's an interesting. It's actually also deeply true. There are lots of folks who feel totally invisible because the college educated upper middle income people who serve a stand stand-ins talking about the professor for people who category x, y, or z are not necessarily Representative of one hundred percent of the people who belong to these various categories. When you look at liberal Muslims, for example, when you look at Muslims who were looking at talking about, let's have more free to. Let's more secularism. These are folks who often steal silenced and afraid you and many other groups do. I'm not saying that the people have these dissenting opinions are right many times they might be totally wrong, but I'm saying is that they exist and they are invisible in these spaces and this dry for status and prestige. Keeps saying if you drive silences folks pursuant to this conversation because if you criticize Islam at all, the politically correct police will say you're a bigot including. You're listening to how you criticize this lot, of course, but let me just so part of what I'm trying to the nuance. It all depends on whether your teeth. Great. That was that was nice move in the sense that he's he's professions, like, okay, guy was funny, incredibly patronizing. Oh, it gets he is patron ising this guy into the ground, and then the Brown Muslim comes back and just whips and with it, what happens in this context? It was pretty sincere and just going to say, by the way, when he's doing that, he's hold, he's patting his hand. That was very nice move. He was so patronizing it was. It was really, really awkward the nuance. It all depends on whether your teeth. Great. That was that was nice move in the sense that what happens in this context, it's pretty sincere. It just going to say. I'm just going to say sincere, but part of what happens is the way in which certain kind of victim discourse can then be appropriate so that you could cause. I think Republicans have mastered this tensor move. On the one hand, they revel in the spoils of victory, exercising, Machiavelli and power. And then when they get called out for doing what they do, they clutched their pearls. It'd be. That is exactly the dynamic surround cavenaugh. This is we have been attacked and they're using it as leverage to suggest that they are the victimize. I just want to say they're of spirals. We have right now, you have a rage spirals, and you'll self-satisfaction spirals and the self-satisfaction spirals are really powerful and addictive. You are space where you're a for people cheer for you. When you say certain things, and it's amazing and it's and it's why Republicans and Democrats both lose because you have Republicans who find themselves solely in their affirming space, and you have lots of liberals who are in the exact same space. That's what I think of political correctness, whether of the white or the left self-satisfaction Skyros. There you go burn. Well, they guy definitely was that guy that black guy was dick. Well, you know, the funny thing is he was a total dick and considered himself a great debater. Yes. Because he could do pull some of these tricks which are just low when I was going to Cal. When I was a student at one hundred years ago, I, this is the same stuff, then it was the same stuff. This is nothing even close to being new. Interesting. It's the same kind of this to this kind of condescending, and it was the same kinda guy very insecure. They're not very academic and route in reality they did. This is all taken from a bunch of, you know, this is polemics from the bunch of radicals that. The Bill Ayers and these types of people that have this down to a science and it's just passed off the fact that even taking place at the university level to this day with no dissents and you get the one guy over there trying to defend himself, even though he didn't think it was -ffective as you apparently do. It would maybe maybe just looks better when you see the whole thing on video as possible. It was, you know, was not as it wasn't a but slam, but that guy that black guy was just the worst of worst case scenario. And that woman, she was just useless. She's very angry. Well, it's what she wrote a book on. And she was she was sick. She was angry like she was shaking? No, she was shaking John, we ate gang. Yep. She was shaking this how mad she was ten. I is not going to. She's not going to survive, and I just seen her on on book TV, and, wow, this is interesting because we have the awesome book fair if she comes. I want to go see her speak. She's angry. Yeah. Well, there's a lot of angry women that are misogyny heard about Hillary. So misogynist. Reid is a little, no, it's not very realistic, but heard about a Hillary and she's irked about it, and she doesn't see any reason why this all happened. She's like woman in green on her knees, screaming at the top of her lungs about Trump winning. Right? That's pretty much it. All right. Do you have any less less thoughts. I've got this weird presentation about Stacey. Abrams I got cavenaugh missed, conduct reports. Oh, we got Judy and Mark shields and Brooks is might be worthless because we do have this. We're getting closer to the mid term. So we might want to tear what Brooks and shields on cake you on PBS have to say about the election and it's kind of interesting. We start off with Judy and Mark analysis of the mid terms said, the president. It seemed out on the campaign where he's single day Jedi, I may have accidentally grabbed the wrong one. Here we go say the president. It seemed out on the campaign every single day jetting out to whether it's Tennessee or Pennsylvania or another part of the country today, Mark, he's in Ohio trying to energize a Republican vote. The base trying to get them out is it is it working day? Thank. Republicans feel it's working better than it did two or three weeks ago Judy. But I think what what is remarkable about is how constant is you said about energizing the base, it's about inflaming people. Donald Trump's message is never about fourteen coalition reaching across the divide, trying to enlist a majority. It's always about coming back to it's us against them and we may not be perfect. But boy, those other guys really bad and and I think that's that's the message it'd be a referendum as every midterm on the president and his numbers right now, just about the same point where Barack Obama's were in twenty ten when the Democrats are doing this to eat Bill Clinton's in ninety four. One of the Democrats suffered a big defeat and two thousand six George Bush's when the Republicans lost control the congress. To sticking to this idea that they're going to be a big right way or Blue Wave, but I don't think he goes out to inflame. Anybody. You've heard this speech is you've been there? Well, I mean, there's a comedy act, isn't it? Yes. But that's not. That's not presidential. So he's inflaming people. I don't. I don't believe this. I think he's wrong. So if you go to, well, let me let me just say the way. Okay, so this the, the view of Trump inflaming his audience, and then being an angry mob, which is, of course what the Republicans accuse. The Democrats of is based on Trump saying, Dianne Feinstein, and the crowd yelling chanting, lock her up locker up. So they see that as inflammation and they see that as a mob. And I think both the correct in that case, if you're going to interpret it from why perspective, here's where, but Brooks comes back with you, do have the president, David out, talking about Democrats or part of an angry mob, calling them evil. I mean using some of the strongest language he's used, is that likely to get his base even more fired up. Yeah, I think it's working. You know, we've we're in an age of negative polarization and that means you don't have to like your own party. You just have to eight. The other one we're in age of negative polarization. What does that even mean? It really mean anything. This is the dawning of the negative polarization station, and it means you don't have to like your own party just have to eight the other one. And that means it's all about contempt and has the other side it's made you appalled. Have they made you feel contemptuous. And one thing the cavenaugh hearing has done is it made both sides feel the others a pole. And so that has fired up both bases and the effect is, and it's always worth reminding ourselves that we no longer having won election anymore. We have a red state election, a blue state election, and they're increasingly disconnected. And so the odds are looking pretty good. The polls have been shifting the Republican on the Senate side and all those red states, Texas, and Montana, and those places on the Senate looking more secure. As of this moment, the house is looking more endangered for the Republicans at this moment as ribbon women move over to the democratic side. So we have two different elections, and there seems to be pretty strong in. In opposite directions. I'm not gonna argue that no, I think the Democrats, the Democrats get the house that puts Pelosi think in public. We don't know crap. We don't know anything we can. We can make some educated guesses. No, and we do know one thing for sure. It's a lot funnier when Pelosi's run and things on the democrat side and it'll be a lot funnier. When the if the Democrats get the house back personally, I don't think they will. But let's play the last of this and I'm done with power. Democrats countering this. I mean, this approach by the president marketing there, there is this a couple of polls, including the one we did with marriage and NPR this week that came out and showed yesterday, enthusiasm gap has narrowed. It was Democrats who were more energized, and indeed Republicans seem to be more energized. What, what? How did Democrats come back? Well, the first thing they had to do is is stop picketing and stop boycotting. And organized the most democratic group in the entire electorate of those as eighteen to thirty five and they live everywhere. They aren't concentrated in certain districts. PAT's African Americans, the Tino's are everywhere, and if they vote, the Democrats will win big. I will say this. I think the most encouraging signs that the Democrats is the Democrats do have a national macro message in this campaign. It's about checks and balances on president. It's not a new message, but it's a message that certainly resonates a lot of voters, checks and balances does it doesn't causing resonate at all. I before we end I do want to say something you've made it mentioned on the show about the crappy house building in Florida. Yes, it's always thinking about, then I got a couple of notes there apparently have been new housing regulations about building places. And if you look at at Mexico, beat Mexican beach, whatever that's called Mexico beach, Mexico beach, there you can see the old houses are demolished, and there's a house right in the middle of being giant beautiful place, nanny roofs intact, and and there's blocks of houses missing and his blocks of houses all intact roofs and tag define. So they are making improvements in the building code. Oh yeah, they have to for insurance purposes, everybody has to have has to be up to code. I know this because Tina lived in Florida for sixteen years. So she's been through storms and she's then she has standing in the on the subject and but I just look at it. You said? Yeah. So the metal frame, it's just like the metal frame of the house was left at kept up the sheet rock. I mean, we build crappy houses in America. It's okay. It's just what it is. You know that we build houses like we build our cars, they just say there's a lot of houses that were standing right basically built. Well, yes, we tell, of course, good houses to just don't build nothing but crappy houses. Well, okay, you're right. You just gotta have enough dough. Well, yeah, if you want to build a lean to which is what they're encouraging and California shanty I just tearing down shanties. You want to build a shantytown made out of the Lumina m- foil, ten leftover fiberglass pieces intense about, I think those are subject to destruction, and that is our deconstruction for today. Please support our work and support all producers around Gitmo nation by going to divorce dot org, slash NA, and supporting us and subscribe to the newsletter. Please helps you remember what we're doing. Then it's an outstanding product. And coming to you from downtown Austin capital. The drones star state team, the region six on all your governmental maps in the five by nine Claudio in the common law condo in the morning, everybody. I'm Adam curry from northern Silicon Valley him. John divorced. We return on Thursday with another episode of the best podcast in the universe. Please join us for that. Again, divorce dot org slash a until then has always. Donate to know. They give shirts, we we all Nate to know. Is show. That's really, you donate to. No. This John had spe- donate to know. Science turn to cle- mortared. Enough. Resist is not trustworthy. As a matter of fact, wonder, sometimes he's not taking cues from. Big. To advance to. Is this. Org slash.

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The Death of Jamal Khashoggi (with Fareed Zakaria)

Stay Tuned with Preet

1:02:04 hr | 2 years ago

The Death of Jamal Khashoggi (with Fareed Zakaria)

"From cafe. Welcome to stay tuned. I'm Preet Berrara. There is no question that when Donald Trump calls the press the enemy of the people, eight emboldens people who want to do bad things to a free press around the world. That's for read Zaccaria. He's the host of Farid Zaccaria GPS on CNN. I speak with him about the apparent murder of journalist, Jamaica Shoji the US relationship with Saudi Arabia, what the Trump doctrine looks like abroad that's coming up. Stay tuned. So you may have heard that Jeffrey Toobin was recently the target of angry tweets by Donald Trump, junior, Chuck, Todd wonders how the Republican party can be outraged by the political environment. They helped create an a new ad featuring Camille nanjiani has a simple message. There's only one voice that needs to be heard yours. So registered to vote today. Now, why do I mention all this? Because they are the guests at my upcoming live shows. I'll be in New York with Jeff on the evening of October twenty. Fifth Chuck will join me in Washington DC and November fifteenth, and Camille will be there on number twenty. Ninth in Los Angeles for tickets. Go now to cafe dot com. Slash tour that's cafe dot com. Slash t. o. u. r. and remember we edit the version that goes into the podcast. Find out what you're missing income catch us. Live see there. Let's get your questions. This is a question from Twitter account of its beard face. I don't know if that's a subtle dig on me, but. L. assume not at pre Perera. I saw this article from Forbes about chief Justice Roberts calling for an investigation of ethics, complaints against cabin. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and a future episode hashtag ask Prete. So I saw that news to thank you. It's beard face. And what I assume is happened is you know, during the process of confirmation with Brad Kavanagh varies, individuals made particular ethics complaints, which went to the DC circuit and the chief judge there. You may remember his name, Merrick, garland, so America Arlen for reasons that you can probably surmise decided he shouldn't be the one to dictate what the process would be for handling these ethics complaints. And so he recused himself from that and in another judge in the DC Circuit, Judge Henderson, decide to form these complaints to the supreme court to the chief Justice, John Roberts, and then Justice Roberts decided to forward the allegations to another circuit court. That's also prestigious, but not the DC circuit to the tenth circuit court of appeals. I wouldn't read too much into this doesn't mean that. The allegations or the complaints have merit. It doesn't mean that people will find them to have merit, but I think to deep six of them in the current climate wouldn't be appropriate. It's not the way that the process on foles. So it's just basically moved from the DC circuit to another circuit, and I expect will hear something about them in the future. But you know, sort of easy for people to grasp onto straws of ethics alligators or future impeachment of Trump or cabinet or people you don't like based on their ideology or their policy, or your belief that allegations about them engaging in back Dr. True. I just don't think people should get overly hopeful that you know appointments, you're going to be undone by these kinds of complaints that are dealt with and disposed of on a regular basis through the ordinary course because all those things are huge. Longshots was not a long shot. If you want to change the arc of where the country's going in, how the courts. Populated, it's called an election and that's coming up really soon. This next question comes in an Email from Marcus and Marcus writes, Hello pre or Hallo as we say it a question from fan, weekly listener, north of the Arctic circle in Norway question is if the Democrats only went back the house, which may be the most likely scenario and not the Senate, what do you think they could do with that power? Great podcast markets, Markus, thanks for your question. First of all, I don't think anyone should assume anything. I think we're spending a lot of time predicting and predictions have a way of being incorrect member. Everyone predicted Donald Trump was not going to be the president, and he is. I think it's sort of interesting to watch the horse races, but nobody knows what's going to happen. Nobody I think fully knows what the impact of the cavenaugh hearings have been. It seems like it's energized women on the progressive side is also energized men in the conservative side. And the only thing I know is that everyone should vote no matter who you believe in. No matter what side you're on, the matter what your politics are, you get better representation for the country. The more people vote that said, it seems that you know the smartest people are suggesting that the Senate is unlikely to be changed in terms of who runs it and house has a greater likelihood. So we've been in this position before you're at a midterm point and a chamber changes party. So what can they do that power? Well, the first thing that legislators power is legislate. It's a little bit harder to legislate things. If you have as Democrats only one of the chambers and you don't have the presidency. So if the house decides to pass something that they think is good liberal policy, where it deals with the regulation of guns or taxes or anything else you have the Senate there to block it and you have a president who may veto it even if you get enough Senate votes. One possibility that has been suggested on the legislative side and hope springs eternal is that if Donald Trump were delivered a rebuke, like the loss of the house to the Democrats, maybe he would pivot towards doing those kinds of things about which there's partisan support, like infrastructure. And other things that are sort of not hot button issues where you could get a majority of people on the democratic side and the Republican side in both the house and the Senate that the president could sign that that would be not a terrible thing for America and go back to the United rather than divide us separate apart from legistlation. As you know, you know, the house, the committee's within be chaired by Democrats, and they have the power to investigate in the same Republicans have investigating various things. You would have three principal committees in the house as I see it that might decide to engage in some investigative oversight. That's the Intel committee, the judiciary committee and the government oversight committee, and depending on, you know, what is important to them. There are lots of different things to look at. There's lots of corruption waste and abuse that could be looked at. And then obviously, which I think is not a bad thing. I think it's a good thing if it's done, I think appropriately and with integrity and not just, you know, political payback. That's terrible. If you know Adam Schiff who I don't expect this to be true. But if Adam Schiff. Decided to run the house Intel committee in the blatant partisan way that I think Debbie newness has been running it that wouldn't be good for the country either. I think what you need is a return to rational, no logical authoritative oversight by people who care about checks and balances, and that would be a good result. And then Finally, I suppose that house as some people want, and other people think is no, maybe not a high priority is a possible impeachment of the president that could certainly happen. I think it depends on what the majority is. I think it depends on what other things have gone on in the world depends on what Bob Muller decides to put out and what actions he decides to take. But that said, if the house goes democratic and the Senate stays Republican, that impeachment is not going to go very far because remember impeachment is just the voting of allegation. Then as we had with President Clinton, they're supposed to be a trial in the Senate in no circumstance that I can imagine, at least as we see it now would even. A successful impeachment in the house lead to conviction the Senate. So we had legislative side. You have the oversight side and you have the impeachment. But before we start getting out of ourselves, just remember to go vote. This next question comes from a tweet from this old guy nineteen fifty seven. That's it's not so old at pre really enjoy listening today to your interview with max boot, touching impart part on his new book. However, at the beginning, you briefly mentioned your own book. So my ask pre question is, what's the status? How about a hint? We'll thanks for asking. It's been a painful couple months as you may know. I turned in a first draft of my book and July, and as I understand, turning for strap does not mean you're finished. There's a lot more work after that. I turned into second draft just yesterday to my editor. So I'm going to brief reprieve from editing and writing, which I'm enjoying immensely. So I'm focusing heavily on your questions and this podcast and the interview with breed Zaccaria. We'll see when my editor gets back to me. But I think it's coming along that's twenty seven chapters none of whose titles unprepared to share with just yet and I'll have a better sense of win. The book will be coming out in the next couple of weeks if might hated a lot of it, then it's going to take longer if he thinks that I conform to his suggestions and edits than it'll come out sooner, but I will keep you posted. I'm from Turkey, and I know you've so much. Stay enjoy your birthday. Thank you. Someone in Turkey. I'm going to respond with my stock response. I love you too. Yes, indeed, if you were on Twitter, you know that this past Saturday was my birthday. It was a milestone. It is divisible by fifty. So I feel a little older in little wiser. But as I said in Twitter of the weekend McIntyre myself to be incredibly lucky, I think the best family, the best colleagues, best professional experiences and the best listeners and supporters anyone could ever hope to have. So here's to another fifty. Thanks for your wishes. My guest this week is freed Zaccaria. He's the host of Farid Zaccaria GPS on CNN. He's also a foreign affairs columnist for the Washington Post and a contributing editor for the Atlantic the age of twenty eight. He was the editor of foreign affairs magazine and he's edited all of Newsweek's international editions slacker. I speak with him about the apparent murder of his Washington Post colleague journalist, Jamal kashogi, who he has known for more than a decade in why America turns a blind eye to Saudi Arabia's actions in Turkey and beyond. And Nikki Haley leaves the UN. We talk about American isolationism and the Trump doctrine that's coming up. Stay tuned. Stay tuned is supported by simply safe. Simply safe is home security dun-rite and here's what I love about simply safe. They are ready for anything. If a storm takes out your power SimpliSafe is ready. If an intruder cuts your phone line simply safe is ready. Let's say an intruder destroy your keypad or siren simply safe will still get you the help you need and look. Maybe it's overkill. 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A lot simpler policy genius compares quotes from the top life insurance companies to find the best policy for you. It takes just two minutes to get a quote, and if you don't know the first thing about insurance don't worry policy genus. Has you covered? They'll help you learn the difference between term and whole life insurance. Calculate how much coverage you need and be sure you're making the right decision. I'm a husband and apparent and I know how crucial these choices are and policy genus doesn't just make life insurance easy. They also compared disability insurance, home insurance and auto insurance. If you care about it, they can cover it. So whether you know a lot about life insurance or nothing at all start your search. Policy Gina's dot com. In just two minutes, you can compare quotes and make an informed decision for you and your loved ones policy genius, the easy way to compare and buy life insurance. Freed Zaccaria. Thank you so much for coming on the show such a pleasure pre overdue. So one thing that's been in the news allot in we should talk about is the mystery of some people think it's not much of the mystery of what happened to Washington Post journalist, Jamal kashogi, who you know personally, correct? Yeah, I actually know him quite well about sixteen seventeen years ago. I was invited to go to Saudi Arabia because I've been writing some tough stuff on Saudi Arabia in the wake of nine, eleven and the Saudi ambassador to the to the UK Prince Turki bin Faisal very, very powerful Saudi Royal set to me. You should come and see a Saudi Arabia. You don't understand it spend a week, so I decided, you know what, I'll go and I spent, I think even longer than that, Jamal was my handler, he was working for the Saudi government. He was the guy interfacing with people like me. And what was striking to me about him at the time was he was really moderate. I mean, he was clearly the face of liberal reform in Saudi Arabia. So he was making the case for why they should be moving faster on women driving and things like that. But he was staunchly pro monarchy. He was not in favor of a democracy. He kept saying, we can't arrest. You know preachers because these are part of Saudi society. So his whole impulse was a very moderate incremental reform. And you know, he's been pretty true to that ever since he's never been somebody who's been a radical, let's get rid of the monarchy and have democracy in Saudi Arabia kind of guy. So to see him, first of all, to be branded, an enemy of the state essentially had to live in self-imposed exile in Washington, and then to see, you know what have what has happened to him. It's actually startling surprising. It's it's very unsettling because the Saudis were not a police state of. The kind Saudi Arabia was generally patronage state more than a police state. You know, they bought off the opposition. This is more of ladder Putin, you know, kind of gory dismemberment of somebody to make somebody die of painful death, maybe as a way to signal to other people that's that's Putin. So why do you think he ended up that high on the enemy's list for the Saudi regime? What? What is what is going on there and what do you think happened there to theories? And honestly, nobody knows, you know, this is a black box. Absolute monarchy is run like medieval monarchy from the sixteenth century or something. So who knows? But I think that it's too plausible theories. The first is that Jamal was threatening precisely because he was actually very much part of the Saudi elite. This is a guy who comes from a very prominent non Royal family. You know that famous arms dealer Adnan kashogi, billionaire. He's Jim. Malls, Jamal has relatives who are even in other indirect ways, rely related to the Royal family. So he is well-placed guy. He was working for people like Turkey and Faisal very powerful Royal this suggests a very powerful schism within the elite. So there's there's one theory is that Jamal was important because he was actually an establishment member in and was part of an opposing faction of the establishment. The other is look, this is an absolute monarchy mama than Solomon doesn't like people writing things against him. He doesn't like the idea that there's somebody out there and in that classic way, you know that famous line of Henry the second when he is he's upset about the archbishop of Canterbury. Thomas Becket knee says, will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest, Mohammed bin Salman said something like that, and people went out and did this. Well, that's interesting because then that suggests that. NBS Mohammed bin Salman has some plausible deniability because that's the whole point of that famous phrase, right that it can be viewed as just a comment as opposed to a directive. So which do you think it was. I think you know, we're all speculating. I, it seems unlikely that you would send two planeloads of people to assemble including people who are skilled in the art of apparently dismemberment if that is in fact true. These are all leaks from the Turkish government. So we don't know if it's true, but if that story is true, it's very difficult to imagine that this happened without mama been. So Mons knowledge if in fact, this was an abduction gone awry, which is plausible. I mean, it's we don't know enough yet being reducted you always wanna make sure you have a bone saw. As a backup? Yeah, that's that's the part that makes it very, very, the part here. That makes us very difficult to believe anything. Other than a pretty dark interpretation is there is no body. I mean, if he died of a heart attack while being interrogated, I don't even understand how you can go from interrogation to to murder that there's there's many, many shades between interrogation and murder, producing police derogations your whole life. I imagine you don't. You don't see a lot of them that go from. We're asking your few questions to oaths, the guy's dead. Now let me their stories of that happening when very hard interrogation techniques have been applied outside the norm. But yes, I agree with you. Can we take a step back by the way I should mention that we're recording this at about noon on Tuesday, and maybe the the factual emerge and change over the next few days before this drops, but assume. That it was a premeditated murder. People showed up in Turkey. There are allegations that they had material, including a bone, saw people who were skilled in these arts if you want to call them arts. So suppose it was the intentional will of the Saudi regime NBS in particular to have Jamal killed. Why go to that length and why do it in a foreign country in your embassy. So I think again, stipulating that were making the all the assumptions you just made. If this was premeditated and plan, it suggests that MB s mama been soman is actually a much darker figure than we realize. And there really is a quality of the Vladimir Putin like desire for control. Because what that suggests very much like Putin is the reason you do these, these assassinations outside of the home country is you're sending a signal to every dissident anywhere in the world that says, you can run, you can't hide. You may think you're safe in the United States. You may think you're safe in Turkey. You're not. We can get you anywhere. That's why the Russians have always assassinated people in London in Sarah wherever it is because they're sending a signal, that's why they do the assassinations in a particularly gruesome fashion. That's why use poison, because you wanted to be a slow, painful death. So if that's the. Case, as I said, this is a big shift for Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia has not been a place like this. It's very different in that way from even a place like Egypt, let alone Iraq under Saddam Hussein. There were never tens of thousands of political prisoners languishing in Saudi jails. The Saudi men model, as I said was, it was patronage. It was bribery. You buy off your opposition. You put a few people in jail, but you know, it does seem like we're seeing a new and much tougher kind of Saudi monarchy. So now the question is this happened, let's say it turns out that it was intentional. What does the United States supposed to do about it? I think there's no question what the Trump administration wants to do about it. Trump has invested so much in his relationship with Saudi Arabia, not as Trump his son-in-law to is son-in-law to, and you know that that that tells you something when the relationship is basically being handled within the family. You know, this is there is a kind of almost mafia-like aspect to this. This element of the Trump administration where you know when when it's being handled by Don Corleone and sunny and Michael, you know, this is important, right? So would they've done is they've subcontracted American foreign policy in the Middle East to Saudi Arabia. If you think about it, the United States used to always try to be the great balance and the Middle East. I was Henry Kissinger's famous shuttle diplomacy where you were kind of equally trusted by the Israelis by the Arabs, by the Syrians, by the additions and the Runyan's. By the what we've done is we've basically signed onto a Saudi policy that says, we support you're, you're very vehemently anti Iran push. So we we're out of the Iran nuclear deal. We support your war in Yemen, even though it has makes no sense and is going very, very badly we support or we don't criticize you when you kidnap the prime minister of Lebanon in an attempt to get a shakedown of that regime. Again at fails, we support you when you try to throttle the small kingdom of cutter, even though that isn't working so. Well, we don't have much of Middle East policy under the Trump administration. What we have is a policy that says, whatever Saudi Arabia says, we support now in that circumstance to suddenly find yourself with the guy you've put all your chips on doesn't seem like he's the kind of international reformer that he was. That's a that's a huge problem. I think the smallest significant thing that's happened in the last couple of days is the break and on the Republican side in the Senate. I mean, you have people like Marco Rubio and Lindsey, Graham saying that they want to sanction Saudi Arabia. That is a very, very extreme powerful statement that is setting us up for a head on collision between Donald Trump and Republican Senate will do you really think so? Or is that just is that just talk like we often see. My gut is that that Trump will win. In other words that the senators will back down, but they're certainly seemed to be pretty pretty outraged and people like Lindsey, Graham, I think feel betrayed because they felt like they were sold a big Bill of goods about m. b. s. being this great reformer, what I'm guessing will happen in our speculating. And as you say, we're recording before the swear, but my guess is the Saudis will resent some face-saving excuse which says, this was a, this was an interrogation gone awry. There was some rogue elements. Those people are being disciplined fired, maybe even jailed MB s new nothing about it or give or given the death penalty. Do you think there's a chance of people who engaged in this so that Saudi Arabia emerges from it more unscathed is that those people face ultimate punishment as well. God. That's fascinating possibility that this guy who probably did this under under instructions would now. Charged with murder, but certainly plausible that he'll be get some very severe penalty. And the crucial thing is that the Trump administration will officially say, look, this is the Saudi position. We have found no evidence to doubt it, and so effect, we accept it and then they'll go to the senators and say, you really want to sanction Saudi Arabia or prices will skyrocket. Arms contracts will collapse frankly, a lot of big businesses will support Donald Trump as opposed to the senators. Everyone wants to make nice with Saudi Arabia. It is the central Bank of oil in the world still even though there are many other sources, some of our reliance on Saudi Arabia overstated. So I'm not an expert on arms, but this idea that the president has put forward that the Saudi Arabia government is buying one hundred. One hundred ten billion dollars of of military products isn't true. That's only Arabia has long used American military aircraft and weapons in that there. Not in the position to immediately shift to buying weapons elsewhere that these things take some years to transition away from. And so don't we have some leverage in that regard. Yes. So first of all, as with everything, Donald Trump says that involves numbers. I mean, divide by four is usually a good rule of thumb. So hundred, ten. It's actually I think about twenty twenty billion dollars of of arm sales. Secondly, much of this was actually stuff that was started under the Obama administration. Thirdly, as you say, it's not easy to switch. These systems are not interchangeable. You can't buy one aircraft that, you know one American aircraft one French aircraft in one Russian aircraft. It doesn't work that way where they do have some leverage is they are the central banker oil. I mean, even though we are now in energy independent and we produce a lot of oil cybio oil is the easiest oil to extract. And so that makes it very easy for them to switch on and switch off production in a way that's very hard to do with fracking or Russian oil because these are very expensive projects. And once you put the money and you can't take it out. So the Saudis had that capacity to go on and off. Which makes them very powerful because they can. They can essentially control the price by just turning on the taps are turning off the tops. The issue I think is not so much all that pre. It's just that. I mean, if you're looking for something that's going to end this recovery sanctions on Saudi Arabia, oil spiking one hundred and fifty even in the short term that do it. Yeah. So there are other considerations and we've kind of tied our hands. Can I want to go back to the Trump administration's unfolding response? Is it sometimes the case based on your experience that obviously your hands are tied a little bit and you haven't ally and your ally does something terrible, and there's a lot of pressure from political forces in your own country, even from your own party. Like the Republican senators mentioned to do something about it, but you want to in your comments. Trump has been very careful to say, well, there's been a strong denial. It was very, very strong denial. He believes strong denials, apparently. But then privately, you say to your ally who has done something bad, you send them angry words. And you yell at them. For example, secretary of state Pompeo apparently had a very short meeting. He was dispatched immediately by the president to go meet with NBS. What happens in that meeting somebody say, you know what? You put us in a terrible spot. You do this terrible thing. Knock it off, you know, we're gonna. Knock your block off next time. Don't do it again or do they hold hands and say, look, this will blow over. I'll take care of our opposition in the states of what happens there. My gut is that it's more the former. In this case, my God is that bump probably went into those meetings and he said, look, you guys need to understand. This is a big deal. This guy was an American resident. He's four, Washington Post columnist. This is snowballed. We need a fully transparent account of what happened, you know. And I think that particularly the Trump wouldn't meetings unusual. Usually, there are no takers at these meetings. There are other people involved. It's very rarely, literally one on one. And so there would be very unlikely to say something. That could get back which suggested that he had in some way, given a green light. So both for reasons of propriety which wouldn't be the right thing to say, but also just politically, he would be making sure that he didn't say something that would leave him vulnerable to being seen as having given a green light. So I think that's probably what they said in that, my guess is the Saudis are absolutely stonewalling in the sense that they are absolutely denying any knowledge involvement because if they show any crack on that from that point of view, I'm sure they think would be a disaster. So they have to maintain the line. We knew nothing about this trying to figure out what happened. It's a terrible tragedy, whereas shocked as anybody else the whole. I mean, there's a bizarre element here, which is that holid- bin Salman Mohamed so months brother, who was the ambassador to the US. Many people have thought that when the crime prince becomes king, he collared will become the crown prince. They're that close. He was. Friend of Jamal Khashoggi. So the the, you know, that's as I said, the whole thing is there's a truly bizarre element to this where what the f. where they think right. Not to find a point on it. Yeah. Can I ask you two things one in order to engage in foreign policy in an intelligent way? Is it necessary for our politicians, this sort of lie and mislead the public in order to calm the waters with allies and TOA party line. Whereas behind the scenes, maybe there's more Frank discussion is that just the nature of how foreign policy has to work for us all to maintain our safety in our relationships in the world is that just the fact of life. Yeah. I mean, I think it's not quite as an affair as as as you make it sound. I'd say that's probably true in all serious public policy, right that there's a certain amount of transparency that you want for for the moxie for accountability, but you can't have total complete transparency at every moment, particularly in the in the middle of complicated and sensitive negotiation. So for example, take the renegotiation of NAFTA if each side had been divulging what concessions they were about to make, and there does mobilizing, you know, the opposition to those concessions domestically, it would be a disaster. You wouldn't be able to get anything done, but I don't think that the fundamental problem here is not that the fundamental problem here in my view is the Trump administration has made a bet about Saudi Arabia that is at the very least wildly naive and exaggerated in its hopes for what Saudi Arabia can deliver as a force for progress instability in the Middle East. And now that you have this symbol. Oil of something that suggests that they're not the great reform guys. They will be presented as it calls into question that whole policy. So for example, this is leading people to take a second look at the Yemen war, the Saudi warn him and you know Yemen is now the worst humanitarian crisis in the world. And that's saying a lot worse than southern Sudan worse than the Congo and it's entirely inflicted by one country, Saudi Arabia. And so there's a question of why are we supporting this? Why are we allowing American weapons arm straining to be used in this process? It certainly doesn't seem to serve American interests. This one murder has perhaps made us look a little bit more thoughtfully a little bit more critically. At that question, I have a question about causing affect. So you mentioned this naive bet that the American government place on 'em beyond Saudi Arabia, generally. And on the other hand, we have this evidence that may be there was a premeditated murder of a journalist. KOMO Shoji did the first thing potentially cause the Saudis to think they could get away with the second thing, or we just being naive and placing the bet, not realising that Saudi Arabia was capable of doing this terrible thing. I think it's very plausible to suggest that the Trump administration's unquestioned embrace of Saudi Arabia emboldened them because this is not a normal Saudi tactic, and the Trump administration has been so so unqualified in its embrace that it may have allowed a new leader in Saudi Arabia who wants to be tougher than previous ones who wants to assert as hardy, mama bin Salman to say, you know what? We can rough things up a little bit and we don't have to worry about the Americans. I have the Americans covered. I make even brought appoint about this. I don't know that in this particular case, this was going on, but there's no question that when when Donald Trump calls the press the enemy of the people. It emboldens people who want to do bad things to a free press around the world. There's absolutely no question that even the Turkish president arrow on who has many journalists in jail, the Philippines press into tardy. Who does that? You know, that's the smallest part of what he does, say, young leashes debt squads to take care of political opponents. All these people know that the one country that used to call them out on these things that used to raise the issue in bilateral. Bring it up at the UN is not going to say anything because the president of the United States going on about how the press is the enemy of the people. And of course, many of those people use the same language. So Tara talks about fake news. He talks about how the press of the enemy of the people are. The one does the same thing. So it's not an accident. The last two years have been in some ways the worst years to be a journalist in men, many parts of the world. It's because the force that used to be in some way speaking up for these things the the United States. Is a wall. So I'm gonna use the example of democracy who we've been talking about for a while to sort of take a step back and ask the question, how should our foreign policy be conducted. So for example, some other country does something. There's Evans that they interfered with our election. They've harmed American citizen or they've taken someone hostage, or they've taken an American resident, not a citizen, which is distinction seemingly important to the president, but they take in someone like him and perhaps murder him in a foreign embassy. How is the public supposed to think about what our foreign policy should be? What reaction should be and how they judge the actions of our government. So for example, let me let me give you a hypothetical, would it have made a difference? And should it shouldn't make a difference if Jamal was not only an American resident, but also a citizen in, let me make it even more stark and suppose there was an action taken against him in the Saudi embassy in the United States. Everything else is still the same, right? We still have some this. That you said we played on Saudi Arabia. We still have the issue of oil. We still have all these other things going on. Does that then take us to level where the current reaction is woefully inadequate, and we should do something much more dramatic. How do you think about those principles. Yeah, it's a really profound question because credit gets that both substantive and and the optics that govern political life. A I, I think was really interesting here is the way that the American system by which I mean congress, the press has reacted to Jamal, even though he was not an American citizen, the president as you, as you point tried to make this very churlish and narrow distinction while he was an American resident, but he was not a citizen. But you know, I think that the fact that congress has been so outraged, the press has been so outraged other governments have been Saud ridge. Look, the guy was was a full participant in American life. He was living here. He was paying his taxes. He has three kids who are American is being employed by one of the great national institutions in the United States, Washington post in some very fundamental sense. He is an American is an participant in American political and civic life for a foreign government to do this should be considered an outrage. Whether or not technically he was. I'm very glad that Trump's attempt to say we should worry about him because he doesn't have an American passport hasn't seemed to work and even he has had to come around. So what if it happened here happened on American soil and we had the same discussion with Putin. You know, he does things in the UK. Could he do things here? Like what happens if a country does something like that here? So they you're raising this very profound question, which is, you know this, you're the interest of the state, the interests of the nation, and they are about stability in the Middle East, low oil prices, maintaining a good relationship with the Saudi monarchy. Then there are these things not just human rights abuses that they do at home. But as you say, stuff that involves American citizens or in batch on American citizens at how do you make that balance here? I find myself as always something of a centrist because all those people, oh, we should just sanction the hell out of sight Arabia do the Sunday. Well, ask yourself if you do that and oil prices go to one hundred fifty and you cause a recession and people get laid off. Think about the cost. You're inflicting on Americans because of that. So part of what you're trying to balances, what is the right thing to do the moral thing to do in terms of standing up for individual rights, liberty and dignity? And how important is it also to maintain some level of stability in the world that allows for functioning global economy that allows the United States function? Well, that allows people to have jobs. Obviously, these things are going to affect people on the margins. You're not no single action is going to put millions of Americans out of work, but you have to balance those two and to pretend that there isn't a trade off here is a mistake, but it another way. If this had happened under Obama, Obama would also be torn. It's not just Arnold Trump. Donald Trump is doing it in a particular crass way where he's as I saying, the guy doesn't count because he's resident and then he's saying, well, you know, we've got these arms sales, but Obama would be thinking many of those same things and be trying to wrestle with the style. Emma, it does get much much harder. I think you're you're doing that classic lawyer thing thing where you're making it harder and harder for me. So if it were doing those. You talking about. In the US and the Saudi embassy very hard not to react very strong. I think you know so. And why is that look? This is not rational. There's an emotional element here. You know, why was it that that boys photograph on the beaches of the Mediterranean that Syrian boy triggered in response even if triggered Anglo American today in one million refugees when there have been plenty of other people washed up dead on the shore of the Mediterranean somehow didn't seem to trigger that something happens, that triggers a response, but it usually is a critical mass. You know that there's been a lot of stuff going on. And then one particularly dramatic event happens. That's when it gets triggered. There's a tipping point. Sometimes that tipping point is a word or a speech, or an event, or photograph, as you said. But I wanna go back to something. You said a moment ago, then you've been lauding senators in particular Republican senators being strong in their statements. Are they being strong in their statements because they would do something different as president or they being strong their statements because they can afford to be because it's not on their watch because it merely senators, not the president. Very brilliant point. That's absolutely right. I mean, the Senate plays that role. Senators play that role, but by the way, I think it's a good thing in the American system that you have a little of that that the president can be tasked with kind of looking after the longer term more reality interests of the country. The senators can give voice tomorrow outrage. I, I've never seen that as a bad thing or hypocrisy. I do think it sends a signal to the rest of the world that America's a, you know cares about these issues. And while the president may not be able to shut off relations with another country because of that, there is a reaction in the country, and there is a condemnation in the country, and I think that's that's very healthy that presumably allow someone like secretary state Pompeo to go into that meeting and say, look what the senators are saying, and they're going to push sanctions and the next time it's not going to be so easy. Exactly. And I think that I think every administration uses that very effectively, but they need for those senators to sound like a mean it that it's not just an act and I think it isn't an act. With people like Lindsey, Graham, I think he is genuinely outraged, let me ask you a broader question about foreign policy, which we should talk about more on the show. Is there such a thing as a Trump doctrine? And if so, what? What is it to the broadest extent Trump doctrine before he came into office was easily identifiable. It was a kind of isolationist Jacksonian ISM we use. We use Jackson Andrew Jackson as a as a way of describing a certain kind of isolated ISM, which is to say, don't bother me. I don't wanna be too involved in the world, but if I'm going to get involved, we're going to come and beat the shit out of you and then and then leave. I don't expect us to any nation building expect us to have any alliances at stay at home occasionally bomb the hell out of people go back and that that's his mentality. And there's was very clear. He hated NATO because it's a permanent continuing alliance with all the tourney issues of burden-sharing and budgets and things like that. He thinks that trait is basically bad because people take advantage of us. So. Here's a very strong 'isolation streak in him. What's interesting is in office. Some of that has has shown through as you've seen with the NATO stuff. But the truth of the matter is if I were an establishment Republican trying to convince other Republicans establishment Republicans that Donald Trump has been okay. I'd say, you know, he says all the stuff. He lets off all this hot air by, but what is he actually done? He hasn't gotten out of NATO. He hasn't gotten out of ghanistan. He hasn't gotten out of Syria. In fact, all those places actually double down the relationship with Japan is finding mean he'd been threatening to pull out troops out of Japan, South Korea, Germany is all happening. In fairness, is that happening because he is he is smartly saying, when thing publicly in blowing up steam and then being rational and moderate, or is he being protected by the adults, Lincoln Madison others which which do you think it is? I tend to think it's probably the latter. Which are describing, but let's be honest. This is this is like a, this is a freak show. I mean, this is this is this is a circus nobody's ever seen an administration like this where you know as as Michael McFaul Obama's ambassador Russia's. And if you look at the administration's policy toward Russia, it's actually very serious and very tough. They've arm the Ukrainians. They've put additional sanctions on the Russians. They've called them to account in various international bodies. The only problem is the president periodically seems to suggest that he doesn't agree with the administration's policy at all at so, right. We're trying to figure out what does that mean when the president says, I don't think they even did it, and I don't think there should be held accountable for by the way Putin's a great guy. And meanwhile, the administration's wrapping additional sanctions on them. So is it possible, for example, that end up the same situation with Saudi Arabia where they'll be some some measures put in place and Trump would be like what I think kill king some on the greatest guy in the world. And I totally believe. Him. It was a rogue operation right people came in from the from the windows of into the Saudi consulate and some manage to do this. It's interesting that suggests that the words of the president matter more than the words of anyone else in that people put a lot of stock in it, and there's some cognitive dissonance sometimes when the president says something, but his administration is doing something else. So for example, if you flipped it, a lot of people think that this president is not tough on Russia because you know everything emanating from his pores in his mouth suggests a warm romantic love of Ladimir Putin, but suppose it was the opposite. Suppose the president had very harsh words, but nobody did anything about it would the public's reaction be in some ways, I think, and you would know better that maybe the public would place the importance of the words in the calling out of an adversary in strong language as more important than he sanctions that the only read about from time to time and they never actually see how they work in practice? No, I think you're. Absolutely right. And that's because the the American system is very unusual in that it really is a court. The president is the king. As you know, many most parliamentary systems. The cabinet is comprised of very powerful leading figures from whatever political party. The prime ministers from these are not people, he can really fire. These are very think of Gordon Brown when he was Tony Blair's, finance minister, the American system. The president is the king. Everybody serves at his pleasure. He can get rid of everybody he wants. I mean, does that famous cabinet meeting where Lincoln Astor cabinet? What what they thought about some policy? And everyone said, nay, nay, nay, and and then Lincoln says, well, I vote, I am, I guess, gentlemen, the is have I think what he said in the same with Donald Trump sent to Lesley Stahl the Sunday. I'm the president and you're not exactly exactly because back to Lincoln's time, but that's true. You know, think about it free. The president has enough power that he can fire even you. You got it. You mentioned that mention that we were having such a nice conversation. I was really enjoying it. I think you're having an interesting an interesting life. This is surely more fun than putting bad guys in jail, willing. I don't have a TV show like some people. Prefer our GPS. I think that has a nice ring to it. Hey, y'all, with your own acronym? Global positioning system, right? That's what it stands for global public somewhere. I I know I watch. Can I ask you about another figure who's been in the news? Nikki Haley who happens to be a fellow Indian American for whatever that's worth. Have you seen anyone else perform, sort of as deftly in a prominent position in the Trump administration in terms of balancing their reputation, their relationship with the president and future political viability than icky Haley? No, I think you have it exactly. Right. And Frank is one of the most impressive political balancing acts I've ever seen period because as you say, she comes and by the way, doesn't have any particular relationship with Trump has spoken out against him during the primaries also has no background in foreign affairs manages to overcome all that by working hard getting quite expert on some foreign policy issues. The ones that she. You had to present somehow development, good enough relationship with Trump, but at the same time, being able to represent herself independently. For example, she was one of the toughest voices on Russia early on at a point where it wasn't clear that Trump would would allow that to happen, you know? So I give her a credit for kind of pushing the envelope there and then very smartly leaving at the top of righty. She did not overstay her welcome. Yeah. Yeah, rarely happens in politics, which she knows is she's done a good job. The chances of having two more good years is just because life is complicated are not that great. So why not leave she special in some way. So that only she could have gotten away with that being harsh and some language pushing back and other places. I mean other words, are there things for other people in the Trump administration that they can learn from her or she unique? You know, it's a very good question. I don't understand how she put it up because Rex Tillerson was not able to. I think that either she had a conversation. With Trump and said something like, look, I think it's important that you allow me to say these things so you don't have to say them or something like that. There was some kind of deal or more likely she's very intuitively good politically and figured out that this would be the place you could go. 'cause everything I know about Trump suggests you can't sit down and have a conversation like that because first of all, he'll forget it. Today's later a won't make any difference. He'll react the way he's gonna react anyway. So you have to in some way, figure out out approaches in a way that constraints him without him feeling constrain. And I think that's what I said was brilliant because nobody else has been able to even matters. You know, Madison been able to maintain his independence, but he's not really been able to speak out in a highly critical. Right? So that I don't know. I don't know her, so maybe you do, but the, you know, as you know, there isn't really kind of Indian American club. It's the aluminum come on where we all meet and plot the. Venture, you know, the gonna have Veda sung at the at the next inauguration was an example of one of those things where we have to not be transparent, publicly Intel, everyone. There's no such thing, but but obviously unite. We had that special handshake for me. For me, which we won't share with other people. So you've been you've been complimentary of her Nikki Haley, political deafness. What is your segment of time as US ambassador to the United Nations? Not particularly impressive. I think that the key opportunity when you're at the u. n. is to see if there are ways in which you can get the rest of the world to support American initiatives that is going to solve global problems. Look wherein a word that stolley globalized in so many ways economically, of course. But you know, you're diseases and they get globalized immediately. You have climate change, which is a global phenomena. And yet our solutions are all national because we still have a politics of nations as we should. So the trick is, how do you get? How do you get that level of cooperation? And it seems to me that should be the measure of the US ambassador to the UN or of America's engagement with these kind of bodies. And I don't think she did very much on that front. I think she positioned herself well for her own purposes. She. Didn't use it to try to do what it's meant to do, which is to solve problems that are by nature transnational with the continuing relevance of the UN to America in the world. Just that that you have a world in which these problems are spilling over borders. And you need some form in which you can meet negotiate. Dr people get a critical mass of people who become a majority, which then forces are the people to go along. It's not ideal and look. I mean, if the closer you get to the UN, the more you see the dysfunction, but if it didn't exist, you'd have to invent it because you need someplace where people can get together and the UN has a unique legitimacy because it is it doesn't clued everybody, you know. So at some level, the g. twenty which is sort of twenty largest countries in the world, sort of maybe a more efficient way. You just have twenty countries the big boys. If you know if they agreed to stuff, everybody else will probably have to agree to it, but that lacks legitimacy because the small. Countries are are not at the table. So the UN has this very powerful legitimacy, which is everyone is represented. It makes it more on really it makes it more dysfunctional but the UN has by and large massively served American interests. We've been able to mask American power American preferences, American interests as global interest because we have much more say in the UN than any individ any single country. I want to switch gears a little bit because we're coming up to the end of our time and ask you about how we should think about historical leaders circle where leaders you're, you're highly educated person you three or four PHD's. How many do you have. Just after that, it becomes too. It's one more than even Finnity times the number of peach. And recently there was a controversies all the time, but I wanna ask you about one in particular, Scott Kelly will astronaut who's twin brothers also, astronaut and who sister-in-law's Gabby giffords former congresswoman who quoted approvingly Winston Churchill, and then there was a an avalanche of criticism about that because there was an unseemly side. Some people say to Winston Churchill was not so modern in his views and all the ways we would like someone to be, and then he apologized for quoting Churchill. Is it appropriate to quote Winston Churchill in two thousand eighteen? Of course it is. The whole thing struck me as bizarre. I mean, he was quoting from Churchill's I page of his his memoirs of World War Two. It was the most anodyne quote, Churchill says, and he quoted in victory magnanimity when you're winning be generous. It strikes me as perfectly reasonable to say that. So then you get these people say over Churchill was racist and he was an imperialist, and then. Scott says, oh, I'm so sorry. I should've looked this up. I stand corrected. This is absurd. Every historical figure of any significance is complicated. I tell you, it's funny you bring up church. Oh, my father was a kind of figure from the Indian independence movement when the Benicia was being ruled by the British, my father's one of these guys who are struggling to get the British to given the independence and he became a politician and things like that. And he was always a big fan of Churchill's. He had all the church books and he had a know bust of Churchill and things like that. And he one day told me that when he was in in England in nineteen forty, five. That's the election right afterward too, because he was a British subject. If you were in Indian who was in London, the time you're allowed to vote. So I said, oh, you must've voted for church. Oh, because you have you admire him so much. He said, oh, no, no, of course not. I voted for the labour party said, you've got to understand. I admire church. Oh, because he's a great world. Stark figure integrate leader from an Indian. Of you. He was terrible because he was the most terrible imperialist who wanted the British to rule India forever. And so of course, for me, vote against Churchill was vote for Indian independence just shows, you know, people are complicated Churchill made many mistakes in his life and many bad things. And I think basically fair to characterize him as a racist, but on one incredibly important thing, which was the rise of Nazi Germany. He was right and everybody else was wrong. And the fact that he was right, had a very important effected saving western democracy, which I think is on the whole was a good thing on the whole. Yes, I would. I would agree with your assessment doctors Akhara. Yeah, a bad bad idea for the for the German stir of one World War Two writer this besides which even if he had been something's worse. That quote was so anodyne. The only thing I'll say about the speed is there's a tendency to overreact to things on Twitter. I mean, when you said there was an outrage, there was like twenty guys on Twitter saying stuff, right? But he apolo-. And he shouldn't have. He should've realized these twenty guys in their pajamas and basements tweeting out stuff. I mean the same guys who interfered with the election, right wing hundred pounds eating Cheetos, does that the wave of moral outrage is that's my point, which might actually be one person with nineteen bucks. May I risk quoting from Churchill my favorite trick. As as you can see, I'm okay. You know, I did not, but if you get ten tweets against it, just let it be. But my you can tell me if this anodyne or not, and then you can define ended. I know what that means. So Churchill has the best joke about prepositions that I've ever heard. Somebody wants this person who won the Nobel prize for what for literature apparently ended a sentence with preposition. Do you recall what Churchill said in response the something's up with which said that is the kind of Aaron pedantry up with which I shall not put. You can send your complaints to cafe dot com. I think it's great. I only say this, I think whenever I have tried when you're writing in factor 'cause and your people breathing down your neck. You're always, I'm very careful to try and track down where these quotes from come from. What I've discovered is many famous church quotes were actually not said by Winston Churchill. What I mean by that is they were set by somebody not very important impressive or well known. And what I've discovered is there is a kind of inflation that takes place in a world of famous quotes where you want your quote been said by Churchill by Lincoln by Jefferson when it said by somebody else somehow magically the attribution of the code keeps moving up. So I think that I would just check it may be. It may turn out to be Lord Darby or something. I think a lot of quotes attributed to Churchill actually said Benny hill. I don't know if people know that nitro for dicara look forward to your tenure as secretary of state in one day, maybe maybe can have me. Nikki Haley as your deputy and teaching Nikki Haley president, you become attorney general become secretary of state. We needed. They see to be secretary of defense. That's the one area where we don't have. We'll like people wouldn't think of Indian viable secretary of defense. I don't know why. Why are you telling people goals? We arrived at enter secret meetings. I don't do free Jakaria. Thank you again. It was a pleasure. Pleasure. So this week I want to end the show on what I think is heartwarming note you'll recall that I had as a guest on the show famed and legendary NPR broadcaster Nina totenberg back in the summer to talk about the supreme court, and you may recall that she and I discussed the way in which our paths crossed a few years ago. And if you don't remember the story, she go back onto that episode because not only does it have some sharp else's on the supreme court in what to expect, but you'll also learn how he met in that was through a violin. Nina totenberg father was Roman totenberg. He was renowned violinist and the owner of very special instrument. Seventeen thirty four stratovarius which had been sadly stolen from his office at the launch school of music in Cambridge, Massachusetts, way back in nineteen eighty. And then in two thousand fifteen, the ex wife of the thief turned in the violent to the FBI when she went to have it appraised because she founded, I think in an attic. And it was my offices responsibility to return the violin and we did so with great joy to Nina totenberg enter family. Her two sisters attended the event as well in August of two thousand fifteen. It was one of the most pleasurable experiences I had as attorney. Well, we have an update a further update after the violin was returned to the totenberg family. Nina enter two sisters did not want the beautiful instrument to sit idly in the collection after all been sitting in an attic for thirty some odd years in the first place. So what they decided to do was decided to have it restored, which the rare violence of New York has been working on for two years apparently takes a lot of work to restore a priceless violin from seventeen thirty four. But most people as you might imagine, could never afford to buy such a priceless instrument, I guess priceless and would have no intention of actually using it would just be on display somewhere until an anonymous person. The benefactor appr-. Coach violence owners offered to purchase the violent, not for himself for herself, but for young users who otherwise would not be able to afford or play such a special instrument. This led to the creation of the rare violence in consortium collaborative to mouthful. But a good mouthful where wealthy patrons can purchase musical instruments and lend them to young aspiring talented musicians for extended periods of time. So what happened to the now famous totenberg Ames Stradivarius we'll have to thirty five years of silence. It is now in the very talented hands of an eighteen year old young man named Nathan Meltzer who is a student at Juilliard. And I can tell you even though I'm no expert, the violent sounds as beautiful as ever did. Well, that's it for this episode of stay tuned. Thanks again to my guest. Read Zaccaria. I really enjoyed having him on the show. Yeah, it's a really profound question. So they are raising this very profound question. Very brilliant point. You know, it's a very good question. No, I think you have it exactly right. If you like the show rate and review it on apple podcasts. Every positive review helps new listeners. Find the show. Send me your questions about news and politics. Tweet them to me at Preet Berar the hashtag, ask creek or give me a call at six, nine two, four, seven, seven, three, three, eight. That's six, nine, two, four Prete or you can send an Email to stay tuned at cafe dot com. Stay tuned is presented by cafe. It's produced by the team at pineapple street media, Aaron, crisper Henry Malaki Courtney Harrell, generalize vermin Joe level and match. Linski. Congratulations to max and his new baby girl are music is by Andrew Dost and especial. Thanks to Julius oil Jeff is and they bossy and Tamara Seper. I'm pre- Perahera stay tuned.

Saudi Arabia Donald Trump president Trump administration United States murder Senate Turkey Jamal Vladimir Putin Washington Post Middle East Twitter Michael McFaul Obama Salman Mohamed Saudi embassy Farid Zaccaria Washington America
Who Hacked Jeff Bezos?

The Journal.

22:54 min | 1 year ago

Who Hacked Jeff Bezos?

"Jeff bezos is a man with a lot of power. He founded Amazon. Owns The Washington Post and unless Amazon is having a bad day on the stock market. Jeff bezos is the richest man in the world. Being a powerful person can can often mean. You're a target and last week. Jeff bezos said he was at target a target of a hack that he says was done by Saudi Arabia. This is just the latest plot point in a long and complicated relationship between basis and the Saudi government today on the show the Saudi connection to Jeff Bezos. Welcome to the Journal. Our show about money business empower. I'm Ryan Awesome and I'm Caitlyn Baugh. It's Monday January twenty seven things weren't weren't always so complicated between Bazo in Saudi Arabia. Actually for a few years basis and the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia Mohammad bin Salman seemed to be friends. The two met in two thousand sixteen. When bezos took a business trip to the country looking to see what opportunities there might be Amazon and the crown prince saw so the potential benefits of being friends with him if Mohammed bin Salman could form a public relationship with basis where they were seen together and they were seen as in the same universe I mean Mohammed could make himself like he's the kind of guy travels in the same services? Jeff bezos. It would help him and it would help his stature at home and abroad. This is Justin check. He covers finance. He's especially been focused on Saudi Arabia and Mohammed bin Salman New Vision for the country Mohammed bin. Some on early on he identified Amazon is company that he wanted to establish itself in Saudi Arabia. To help boost settier profile and economy and make it more of the country he admissions has planned out a five hundred billion dollar brand new city to be built from scratch and the idea was that it was going to be center for Innovation and they identified a number of anchor companies. They wanted to come there early on with the Greek government incentives the government paid billions dollars. Free land free ranked in all sorts of other incentives to bring them there to start creating jobs and to create innovative new. Corporate structures and Amazon was one of them. And do we have any sense of whether Bezos was on board with that plant the Prince and bazars personally discussed various plans to bring Amazon specifically Amazon web services to Saudi Arabia. They were talking about a deal where Amazon invested its own money. Maybe a billion dollars more of its own money building data centers in Saudi Arabia turning into a regional hub. which would have been a brand new thing for the kingdom and would have added a level of legitimacy in the business world world? Hadn't really had Bazo hasn't commented on his relationship with the Saudis and representatives for the Saudi government also declined to to comment as did an Amazon spokesperson but Justin and his colleagues spoke to people on both sides of the agreement and they said this deal was an exciting thing for for basis and Mohammed bin. Salman those sources say that the two men continued to discuss the agreement from afar her and then in the spring of two thousand eighteen. The prince took a trip. The kicked off a series of events. That would eventually call this relationship into question. Mohammed bin Salman to the United States for three weeks in a big splashy campaign to change American perceptions about the conservative and oppressive kingdom the Crown Prince of Saudi Arabia is poised to take Hollywood by storm later today. Reportedly set to meet with heavyweights rupert. Murdoch and Bob Iger among long others Warwick tour. You went to starbucks the Michael Bloomberg net everyone from President Trump to Oprah Winfrey to Richard Branson Prince was and did. TC Jeff bezos he's charged in La. They had dinner at the dinner in Los Angeles on April fourth. Two thousand eighteen. The Prince and basis exchanged contact information so basis phone and just sent a message to the prince said hello. NBS NBS's Muhammad Awesome on and Muhammad replied. Say Hello I saved the number Mohammed Bin Soman and for context the Prince. Is it extremely busy person. Listen and he stays up all night and I don't think he sleeps very much and he is. What's that messaging with a lot of people all over the world seemingly all the time and so it wasn't really unusual that he and basis would have changed? What some numbers and they would then send messages back and forth? It's in keeping with the way the prince does things after. They exchanged numbers burs on. What's APP bezos became one of the people? NBA stayed up late at night messaging. According to Justin sources. They discuss business over what's APP. And then Bezos got another message from MBA's WHATSAPP account in May of two thousand eighteen. You Mohammed sent a video and it was kind of promotional tours in video about Saudi Arabia. Bazo didn't react to the video at the time. But but according to a report commissioned by Bays and released last week there was apparently something weird about this video shortly after that was sent huge volumes of data started leaving basis his phone in a way that it's not normal and so these people hired by basis concluded that there was some kind of spyware aware file attached to the video that was installed them basis his phone and that was used to pull data off the phone. What did the Saudis say about that allegation? The Saudis that was absurd but for context year has been widely reported publicly in the couple of months before this alleged infiltration of the business phone. The Saudi government had used spyware to infiltrate the phones of a number of dissidents. So there had been this fairly widespread effort to spy on people's phones leading up to that Saudi officials close to the crown. Prince told the Journal they were aware aware of a plan to hack basis phone though they were not aware that a hack actually happened. The Saudi government denies that the Prince hacked bases phone but around. This time there was an issue that the Saudi government had with Bazo business owned The Washington Post and the people close to Bazo say that there was resentment over the Washington Post publishing columns by dissident criticizing the kingdom. Those columns were written by a man named Jamal. Kashogi Jamal Kashogi was sort of uniquely. Saudi figure. Columns were a very critical of what was happening in. Saudi Arabia of especially of the crackdown on dissent and of dissidents being locked up being silenced otherwise and is there any evidence that Jeff bezos had a direct line or was in communication with Jamal Kashogi. Well it's hard to get into someone else's mind but when you come from a government in a country where this one guy who's in charge charge and what happens is on extension of what he says when you deal with another institution where there's one guy in charge you may come from it from the mindset mindset that everyone does what you say. Are there any other possible. Motivations the Saudis could have had to hack bases phone. You know there's a good relationship between between the trump administration and so there's all sorts of speculation around trump dislikes pesos. And Call Them Jeff Bozo in a tweet and trump doesn't like the Washington Post and there could be a convergence of interests around making business look bad and what trump wants and what the Saudis want. I mean who knows you know like maybe it's good to have everything inside the phone of a really rich guy. These are just theories that would emerge months later but at this time Basil's was unaware that his phone own may have been compromised and he kept using it to message. NBS over what's APP. They talked about business. Deals talked about the data center. Mama talked about his plans for the kingdom named him seemed fairly friendly and then in October of two thousand eighteen as most listeners. Fino Kashogi was murdered inside the Saudi Saudi embassy in Istanbul by people who work for the crown prince new details reported on the murder of Jamal. Kashogi Turkish TV showing video of men carrying luggage edge into the residents of the Saudi Council General in Istanbul. The report says the five suitcases contain the remains of the Washington Post columnist the CIA has reportedly reportedly concluded that the Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad. Bin Salman ordered Kashogi murder. The crown prince denies any involvement. Outrage is growing as leaders are demanding demanding answers from Saudi Arabia. And that's when the relationship between Bezos and mom. It really sort of fell apart this. This created a rift between the Prince and Bezos in the weeks before Kashogi killing. NBS had been texting Bezos. Saying it was really important. Shortened bezos come to Saudi Arabia for an economic development conference. NBS was hosting Mahmoud. Has this conference in two thousand seventeen. The called at Davos in the desert was nicknamed. It attracted you know. All the titans of finance took upset He Arabia and was this public display of how the king destination for the world's was as powerful investor's business people to eighteen was supposed to be even bigger and Bezos had talked about coming for surprise guest and then Amazon Emerson have pulled out of any dealing around conference and a lot of other people pulled out as well and I think upset the prince felt you know he's being abandoned. NBS and Bazo as you were no longer on friendly terms and that was just the start of trouble for Jeff Bezos. That's after the break My My name is Dr Alexander Sachs. I'm a psychiatrist. And the host of the Gimblett Podcast Motherhood sessions which is back for a second season each episode. I sit down with women who've come in with a question or a problem and we work on it together. When was the last time you tax? I think it was like two years ago. I just I feel feel like the sexual part of me is just doesn't exist anymore. You can listen to the new season of motherhood sessions for free on spotify or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome back by the end of two thousand eighteen M. BSN Simba's were not on good terms but no one knew the extent of it. Not and tell a personal drama in Betas life brought it to light and there's a person in here at the Journal who's watched it all unfold the head of our investigations team a man named Mike Second Nafi and how most people refer in the newsroom psycho. But again that doesn't have to be chief or boss. I answer to a lot of names I just WanNa. Does he copy. There's a lot of copy that crosses my desk and the recent stories that he's been editing have their genesis in a big announcement. bezos made last year in January of last year basis came out with a tweet announcing that his wife of Twenty Five Years Mackenzie bears as us. And he were divorcing and shortly after that the National Enquirer tabloid paper of record came out with screaming headlines. Talking talking about how the divorce was prompted by an affair. Visas had with Lawrence Sanchez born Sanchez a TV. The anger was married herself at the time. And so what looked to be a major revelation of a personal nature by Bazo. The divorce forest turned within a few hours into a much larger scandal because it involved the national enquirer releasing to the public very embarrassing information about. Jeff Bezos is a fair which led to the divorce and some photographic evidence of this. Yes there were photos and they were texts that the national poorer gotten so. Can you give us a flavor of those texts yell try. This is revanchism. NASA's told Sanchez. I want to smell you. Want to breathe you in. I I want to hold you tight. I WanNa Kiss Your Lips. I Love You I am in love with you and on and on until recently bazo had sort of a geeky reputation in in an interview in two thousand fourteen. He said that doing dishes every night was the sexiest thing he does is. His personal life was certainly kept private for many years and everyone when they focus on days as they talked about the brilliance of his business acumen and handle he founded Amazon and turned it into this monster company that everyone uses. You seem to be a private guy. And it's that private persona that made Bazo says public response after this saga. Perhaps even more surprising about a month later is she can extraordinarily blog post on what's called medium in this. Post bezos wrote quote. It's unavoidable that certain in powerful people who experience Washington Post news coverage will wrongly conclude. I am their enemy. And bezos hinted at two potential enemies. Amis who might be behind the national enquirer Article One the White House which head publicly complained about Washington Post coverage and the other the Saudi Saudi government the connection between Saudi Arabia and the national enquirer might seem surprising but they have a history three. Here's Justin we know that. Prince Muhammad and David Pecker. WHO's the head of the parent company of it's national enquirer had met two thousand seventeen really knew each other and around the two thousand eighteen visit when Muhammad keeps America? You do you choir published Glossy magazine. That was basically I mean. It was almost reminiscence stuff that you'd seen the tabloids Princess Diana was the fawning over the top language. About how amazing Prince. Muhammed is changing Saudi Arabia. One of the world's biggest investors and incredible American ally fighting terrorism and it was this like fawning piece of suck up the national enquirers parent company sources. This is have said. He had talked with the Saudis about funding for the company and in this blog. Post bezos revealed that he thought the national enquirer her was going after him beyond just the one story they'd published. He accused the paper of trying to blackmail him by threatening to release more details about his extramarital title affair. racy photos more texts ones. That would be even more embarrassing if they ever came out to Bezos than what had previously come out things things like according to vases medium post a full length body Selfie of Mr Bazo swearing just a pair of tight black boxer boxer briefs or trunks with his phone in his left hand while wearing his wedding ring or other naked cell fees and the like exactly exactly Bazo said in this medium post that the national enquirer was blackmailing him because they wanted him to stop investigating how they got his texts and why they wanted them. American media The parent company of the National Enquirer denies. There were any political motives behind the report on basis. When you read red basis as medium post what was your reaction to reading that letter? Do you remember. Holy smokes or some variation of that probably in the national enquirer had for many years been trafficking in racy information. But this is the first instance that we were aware of where. You're an executive. Try to get ahead of the inquirer is doing and flip the script on them and put them on the defensive so we knew it was a huge story. We just didn't know how far we'RE GONNA go. Basis is public admission about these photos and texts and his claim blackmail launched a bunch of different investigations and prosecutors reporters and Bezos himself. Were all trying to figure out what happened. Exactly how the national enquirer was able to get a hold of the texts and whether the inquirer was motivated by anything other than juicy tabloid gossip we launched investigation to our team through sources that he spoke with discover that the enquirer had received a number of photos and texts from Michael Sanchez. who was the brother of bezos lover Lawrence Sanchez? And what did our sources say about. Who Michael Sanchez is so Michael? Sanchez wasn't particularly well. No known before this incident as a talent agent and he's managed some television stores in reality show judges but the more important element of this at least as it relates to the inquirer. Is these long. been a source for the Inquirer reporters here at the Journal. Were able to find the contract. Michael Sanchez signed with the national enquirer. There was an agreement. That inquiry came up with Michael Sanchez. Paying the princely sum of two hundred thousand dollars four text photos and others nation that related specifically to the affair that his sister had with just Basil's in that contract Michael Sanchez said he got the text and photographs that legally so that left Mike and his team wondering how exactly did Sanchez. Get those texts and last week on Friday. They found out the photos and the texts. That Michael Sanchez Sanchez. Got were sent to him by none other than his sister learned Sanchez the US Attorney's Office for the Southern District of New York in Manhattan. It is in possession of these texts showing the progression of the text and photos from Lawrence Sanchez to Michael Michael Sanchez to the national enquirer. But wait a minute here. This is his sister. Sent the FOTOS use. These racy photos the text that you read to her brother. Why would she do that? Why don't they anyone could get into Lawrence Sanchez's head and Lauren has not responded to requests that we've made multiple requests for comment at the time she was married? Jeff Bezos was married so people could speculate about witter. Antennas were what the effect was that it did trigger or seem to trigger bezos to get a divorce from his wife and now Lauren Sanchez. And Jeff Bezos. Those are a couple Michael. Sanchez declined to comment on the texts or his contract. With American media in a statement he said quote with Spoon Fed lies and half-truths The Wall Street Journal keeps getting it wrong. Lawrence Sanchez didn't respond to requests for comment. And an attorney for Jeff bezos declined to comment. There's one aspect of the text revelations that Justin says is unresolved. There's this little space is in there. which is that? It's still unclear how the inquirer was first tipped off about the affair. The Inquirer said they were tipped off to the affair. It advance of getting the stuff from the brother and we don't know how they were tipped off last week. A report that was commissioned by Basil's came out it looked into the possible hacking his phone and that report concluded that Saudi Arabia likely hacked into his iphone through that video message sent in May of twenty eighteen to United Nations officials reviewed the report and said that those was likely hacked by Saudi Arabia In an attempt to influence how the Washington Post was covering the country but especially too many cybersecurity experts. The report wasn't complete. Nobody's found the malware on the phone. There's big gaps here. So there are all these speculative reasons why something might be true or something might have happened but there still remains the fact that nobody's found the alleged piece of militia software. The report also doesn't say what sort of things if any were taken off off of Bazo says phone by the Saudis. The questions. It's around the is there any nexus between what they believe. Saudi Arabia did what came out in the acquirer. We're not sure shore. Private information was compromised from the richest man in the world and we know that the national enquirer was up to its own thing. Buying the information from the the girlfriend's brother and the Saudis allegedly have their own plan to take business information. They're there are all these individual data points you think you know. Is there something deeper. Here's this just a we just connecting dots and be connected. It's possible to totally separate. It's possible this relationship it's also possible. There isn't a Saudi thing because again it's up been proven that he infiltrated the phone could be two separate things could only be one thing could be one unified thing. We don't really know remains a mystery. It remains a mystery but it might not for too long. Now get to work. Yeah That's all for today. Monday January twenty seventh. The Journal is a CO production of Gimblett and the Wall Street Journal. Quick disclosure. Rupert Murdoch is the owner of newscorp which is the parent company of the Wall Street Journal. Special thanks to Somerset. He'd Bradley Hope Joe Palo Solo. Oh and Corey Ramey for their additional reporting. Thanks for listening see you tomorrow.

Jeff bezos Saudi Arabia National Enquirer Saudi government Lawrence Sanchez Mr Bazo bezos Justin Amazon The Washington Post Mohammed Michael Sanchez Sanchez Mohammed bin Salman Saudi Saudi embassy Saudi Saudi government Saudi Saudi Crown Prince Mohammad Bazo the Journal Kashogi Jamal Kashogi
The News Is A Tarantino Film, Make Groping Legal Again 10.24.18

The Daily Zeitgeist

1:09:13 hr | 2 years ago

The News Is A Tarantino Film, Make Groping Legal Again 10.24.18

"Miles real quick question asking for friend, not because I have weird taste and porn hounded Michael know what kind of porn Rudy Juliet into very weird and concern. But the reason Michael avenue kind of porn, Rudy Giuliani like is because the old man did not have a VPN that would have kept his browsing history secure. Well, fortunately Nord VPN is offering our listeners sixty six percent off a two year plan. That's about three ninety nine per month. Just go to Nord VPN dot com. Slash zeitgeist, sign up and start protecting yourself. That's Nord VPN dot com. Slash the IT t use code zeitgeist and get started today. Hello, the internet and welcome to season fifty four episode, three of these guys, Wednesday October twenty four, two thousand eighteen names Jack Brian. AK, Jack. Do the moans. Monster, jack. Graveyard smashed. He did the Jack cotton. You know flash, he did the Jack. The moment Jay worked at crack. Oh, yeah. That's pretty good. For living and on thrilled to be joined as always by my co host Mr. miles. Miles of being as with you. Weighing saying he anyway, that is Michael Jackson, you are not alone if you get that and that comes from God one Rita too, and but your display name Reese Andrews. So shout out to you. Marus and mine is courtesy of Travis stocks still at Travis butcher, American butcher. He is a real butcher, and we are thrilled to be joined in our third seats by the hilarious, Brandon Johnson Britain. Boot b. every every it be. Oh. Michael. Came out with that. Michael Jackson, man, I had. That for the rest of the show looking. Looking. Man, you already had up. Yeah. Well, yeah, you kinda you did more than keep up went into first place. Now, I think my monster mash interpretation was better, but. Man now really good. Come with a game. I mean, the thing that most listeners at home probably don't know as I was doing both forces both the high pitch want to end the Dracula and they probably thought it was like, you know, you gotta backing band. All right, Brandon. We're going to get to know you a little bit better in a moment, but first we're gonna take our listeners through what we're talking about today. The goal of this show is we're trying to tell you guys what the nation and the world are thinking about taking a deep dive into a merica 's and the world's shared unconscious and conscious using the headlines box. Office reports what's trending on Google and social media. Today we are talking about two thousand eighteen as the year of costumes for black kids. Hey, finally, and Meghan Kelly wants to get in on that shit. So she is upset that black face isn't cool anymore. Someone just told her that, apparently then we're going to get into some substantive shit about kashogi. We're going to talk about the mid terms. We are going to talk about the Trump organizations business, which turns out his fraud. We're going to talk about a guy who groped a sleeping woman on a plane because the president said it was okay. So we'll we'll talk about that. And then we're gonna talk about Drake who just don't on the Beatles again, but first brand and we like to ask our guest, what is something from your search history that is revealing about who you are them? GMC are vs my homie. I love this recreational vehicle recreational vehicle. These GMC RV's are like when America was like, we need to make RV in house over at GM Motor Corporation, and they made them on a tornado chassis. So they're like a dope as Buick with a refrigerator and a shower while how big are they? They're twenty six, twenty four feet long, and they are amazing. They look like the future. Oh, this thing, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's crazy because it really is a car that they made into an RV and it ride super-low. There's no need for step ladder. You can just jump up in it. It's got a refrigerator, three-burner cooker. Here's what I'm trying to say. If you drink and do drugs like I do you. You're going to need a vehicle where you could say, walk out to it stumbling fall asleep and wake up, take a shower, and then pretend to be normal again. Ray right. A normal car doesn't work for me because the neighbors usually come out the house and go. You've been parked there for two or three days, right? And you you wearing the same clothes. It kind of looks like a giant van. There you go. John More windows. And yeah, you in the market for one, I'm in the market for one man. If ya, you know, send yours to please get this black Duda home at. Dot org. I mean, man, I'm trying to raise money, get this GMC RV. They were made from like seventy two to seventy eight. They're, they're the big boys. A lot of the pictures I'm seeing. Yeah. Have that Sepe tone you want to get in there? Goodness yourself a favor. Come on down to Bob's and pick up an RV. Is it? So you get them used and they still run pretty well. They run pretty well because it's a basic four, fifty four engine. There's not a lot of not a lot of scarcity departs. Yeah, your car guy, agenda cars, man. I'm love cars. It's crazy. 'cause I drove a Volvo wagon. It's crazy because I ride the bus. Car though. Right, right. You always like vintage things, though. One thing I know about you even like when you have like a bike. I remember you were like hand like restoring older bike, and I'm like, damn, Brandon is a craftsman because I'll be like stop making new stuff man on just figured this out outside. There were new streetlights. They were halogen and on. Even the straight lights, his new start making new stuff man. That's yeah, Michael man. He was a Pri always loved to feature LA's orange lights, right? That was like a whole thing about how like that used to be. The look of LA films was are like orange tinted streetlights. And as you know, technology came oats owner, Jiyun efficient were burned up too much coal or whatever. At the time switched it to more energy efficient and we lost our identity. Yeah, technologies never really done anything for anybody. And I don't even know what this podcast is. This. This aren't plug disarray. This radio show this radio show. This is not new technology. This is like one thousand nine hundred and we should be like, oh, look at my Bogue. Back in the day, all the head was dogs house blondes. What is something you think is overrated? Overrated is closed Facebook, groups, closing? Yeah, those private exclusive ass Facebook group. Okay. Yeah, that's pretty overrated because you know one, they're not that closed. People still see them to. We are really getting done. Not if you're like, Rosh sales and Los villas closed group. Why is that a clothing group? Oh, who's going to infiltrate. Because I know they're groups that they make sense for them to be private because you're talking about sensitive things. And then I said there has to be a reason you went lows, feelers garage sales group, like right, that sounds like something you're interested in and they're like, I'm sorry, this is a close group. Fill the lemur park. Oh, black people, society, closed group. What do y'all talking about? Black recipes. The drum circle Elmore park on Sunday. My dad is their home. Djembe asking if you've seen my dad. Yeah. Okay. That's another show we have. Yeah, where's my dad? A closed group. I never go get found. What is something you think is underrated underrated? No name. She's a Chicago rapper up. People are there into her, but they need to be a little bit more into her. I always like to to force people into giving other people props, Danny, though, forced props for props. I think we've played a, oh, you know what? No, we were going to play a no-name track to play that tonight. Stressing a lot of really good good female emcees. But they also have a lot of really good and sees people's come on and artists to raven Linney who's going out of Chicago love her yet. There's also this kid Steve lacy. Raven leading may all the time from the internet. Yeah. Now, yes. And I don't think Steve Lacy's from Chicago. I think he's from deeper south. Yeah, but he's dope unease underrated. Have you heard of this chance guy. You'll funny I watch on Amazon. There was some chance the rapper slasher film. Like some other rapper and like what's homeboys name from SNL Chris Parnell and it was. So I, I got seven minutes in and I was like, I can't this. I didn't even see chance before like he didn't even show up and I had to. I'm a big fan of chance, but I really to tell you that Anderson pack is the money changes fucking dote, honestly Anderson packs like chance and Kendrick and Mary j. Blige all rolled into one great male rapper. I just love his. He's drums and sayings right time and them suits man, the short pantsuits. He's a credible watched his bonnaroo and he wore it out and then got behind the drum set where the drum set out wrapped at the same time and then sang these ridiculous, very, that's why I call him the Phil Collins of rap roaming and. Suiting. What is the mid finally would is something that people think is true? You know, befalls that smoking weed causes. That that smoking weed that smoking weed. What was the question? What is a myth? What's what is you think this is something that people don't understand to be true, so they try to explain it away. Right. Okay. So what's your maith admit that, you know? Yes, Yep. That's looking weed is smoking caused. Just reach your paper. I wrote. Brandon is so hiring memory memory loss. Memory loss. I'm not you. You didn't phrase that in the former west row bet. What is a myth. All right guys into the stories of the day. Let's get into the site Geist miles on this first story you put on here that two thousand eighteen is the year of causes for black cat. I didn't realize so on slate, I go through all the interwebs and they put this little article together and I realize, yes, this was like a blockbuster year for black costumes for kids. I grew up dressing as white people as there weren't many. Like aside from me being like Magic Johnson one year or something like that, right it, you know, there wasn't a lot always like ready suit. You could buy like out the bag. You know, one of those caution bags, whatever. Also, my mom never bought me a bags costume. I should also have that caveat there. But anyway, this year with movies like you know, Black Panther solo wrinkle in time shows like Luke cage, the new Spiderman miles Morales. They're all there so many costumes now for kids. Uh, so they can, you know, represent themselves and look like the people. Are, which is a very, yeah, I just thought it was a really dope thing in may seem miniscule, but it's miniscule. I think it's a huge deal. Yeah. My mom was a awful at Halloween. She made me Dracula and then when she used a trash bag as my k. through that away because I was a smart child said, will you have the suit on? So you'll be a waiter. And she handed me a white towel to drape over my arm. Dan, a ridiculous ass costume mate. I gotta tell you she put coffee grounds on my face to give me some stubble. Because as a waiter, I was a failure and I need to have an unshaven face. Wow, you back story. We get the coffee grounds stick like she talked them to my face with water, which then broke my face out. Sofala was two things. I was an unloved child abuse child with with coffee ground induced acne. That was better than when I was. I was like eight years old and she said, you'll you'll be Spiderman. And she put me in a black Leotard black tights, and then she put tape on my body the way Spiderman has all those different lines running across his body. So when I got to the party inside the party and a little girl comes over to me at this point, all the tape wand up in a ball. Movement from move. On my chest in a ball, and this little girl comes to, she's like, what are you? And it was like, I'm spider man, and she was like, no. Yeah, I remember when year effort though she put effort not efforts to wrap a child and Tang. Again, I remember when speed came out. I wanted to be a swat cop. My mom's are, you'll be mad. Scientists washes, put put this dress shirt on, and I put a fucking white bathrobe on instead of a smoke. And then she put a bunch of hair spray in my hair and just fucked it up. Here's a glasses you're signed says, like, I wanted to be fucking Jack traveling from LAPD. But you know, this is a different era too. I think also with with my my mom, she's to practical. It'd be like, why the fuck him? I'm going to spend fifty dollars on a bag. Costume break where this rope and already got hairspray. And you were mad scientist. Which now I'm gonna just by all these fucking bad costumes. I, I don't know who I actually, I don't know. You can dress up for him. I'm not going to dress up in real life. No, no. I just remember left for my job. So I'm like, you know, it's really hard to beat her makeup. I feel like a failure again. And as you as you've heard, the Holloway is traumatic for me, but I do make costumes like one year. I was like, Vanity Fair. So glue up Vanity Fair like five feet by three feet and then put my face through the whole. And it was the Paris Hilton edition and she was topless pair of writing pants, and I'm just a walking parties. I can't move or dance because I'm this big ass thing. Right. But are one yo mama? I want. Mama are grew up to win Halloween through mama parties and stuff. I became something minutes. Minniti fair. Somebody comes up to, you know. No, you're not. Well, Megan Kelly. Maybe she saw that same article because she has some thoughts about what she should and shouldn't be able to dress up as and we have a clip. There was a controversy on the real housewives of New York with Luan as she dresses Diana Ross, and she made her skin look darker than it really isn't. People said that that was racist and I don't know. I felt like kudos love Diana Ross. She wants to look Diana Ross for one day. I, I don't know how that got racist on Halloween. I haven't seen it. You cut off my man, Jacob sober off who van. I haven't seen it, but that sounds racist. Yeah, and they're like, well, let's racist. Yeah, and it. Wow. Yeah. And a minute before that she had said that, like specifically said like, people think it's offensive for white people to dress up as black people or black people to dress up as white PL. And I just don't see the big deal. Right and like it's like, why is it was so focused on race? Yeah. Says Megan Kelly for a, you know, it's the culture wars, you know, full full steam right now. It makes sense that we're getting these takes around Christmas. I wonder who she would really want to dress up as I can't imagine. There's a person of color this. She respects she would dress up as some kind of total caricature of something. But yeah, she probably respect Konya. Yeah. Oh my God. Can you imagine I bet you write that. We're gonna see some white boys, black the fuck up with the maga- hat on with the Yee's and then have a car dashing below you con- you mega and like it's all good because you wouldn't be mad because I'm a free thinker. They can use that influence or costume that we saw. Yeah, exactly. From urban outfitters, which is just basically like Heather grey bandages. Right? You wrapping your body? Yeah. Megan Kelly. I think a lot of credit for being part of the resistance, and I think this is just yet another example of, you know, ju just because somebody has has a public feud with Trump does not mean that they are remotely woke where people are really trying to paint her though, as some kind of hashtag resistance person. Yes, she was on the cover, all sorts of man. I remember that that thing, but like just aside from that cycle, did anyone even actually take that is like, oh, there's an ally. Well, and then she went from Fox News to NBC. Yeah, but then shit like, but then she's making. She's still Megan, Kelly, and I am not speaking defense. Of course, you R Kelly t shirt on right now. All right. But this is from her woke period. Right? Woke makes her look. Woke makes her look. That mommy could be woke is by the end of the curse, right? Yeah. Well, hey, you know, she's dried up, you know, but it's funny like not her business. Yes. Yes. Like you're saying member of before we started recording, Brandon. You're saying you like in the beginning, people just used to just say, shit, like, why don't see the problem and they move on. And now we had to watch her haw a little bit to try to come up with a reason like, well, if people want to dress Diana, that's also that it's not an argument to justify anyone wearing black face. And if we're still trying to explain to people in two thousand eighteen like the ins and outs of black face. Then it's twenty eighteen. So like I don't. I'm not going to try any more like I literally, I'm going to just be at the better party. Like there was a time where felt like as a minority, maybe the reason that people were racist because they were ignorant, and then you realize the racists because they picked it be racist. So I'm like this on you feel free. Madoukh stay as racist as you want to. We know how much your party sucks. Right? She'll feel free kick it, kick it as much as you want to John's black people, Mexicans, Asian people, gay people, whatever we know what your party looks like. It's like mashed potatoes with mayonnaise and some. It's not going to be good, just me. No good music. No, good spices. No good enough. And so I'm like, I don't have time anymore to like educate people as to what's really going on out there. You just have to like, listen and hear the music and smell the food me like, whoa, whoa. What fuck is that over there? Six. By the way, that's the only embassador ship we have. We're not going to be like, come in and learn our customs and do other shit. You can hear the music and smell the mother fucking spices from now on. It just a bunch of it's standing around punching each other while naming as many serials positivity can. Welcome to the proud boy those. Oh, you know, they got like three more got arrested. Did they because NYPD was fighting like, hey, I think they realized this looks mad racist and we're on their side if we're not really investigating this and like a couple of people had to turn themselves in, they arrested another guy. We'll see where it goes, but you know. So there was a big St., bro. Yeah, I think we talked about that last week. Yeah, but between the prow boys and anti fog, mcgavin mckiness did a reenactment of Japanese socialist being assassinated with samurai sword. That was tight. And then, yeah, there were like some counter protesters outside. And then right after the event, like group of probably's get tussle with them. And yeah, antifa found video of the fight Mike deed, every proud boy wild. Like before the NYPD, hey, if you have any information, blah, blah. Meanwhile, on like far left Twitter, everyone had been like within moments like, okay, these are everyone's names. Here's linked in pages. Right here. Like does anyone have any info to like the New York antifa chapter cut like some video with like everybody like wants to rule. We will find you will this looping their faces. Yeah, it was Israel Israel. It's so crazy that you never see private in Harlem. It's not really proud. Yeah, they're not going up the past like maybe definitely not getting up to the one twenties of any city? Yeah. I went down to Maxine Waters office last time. They said they were going to go down news like maybe three or four months ago. They were like, we're sending people to Maxine Waters office and I was like smoking. To meet or that is. It is like one twentieth and I was like standing there I should not have been in that sounds like this. The only time I ever see this neighborhood right? Because there were cops, but there were so many people out that they had to cancelled. Weird like weird. It's like black people don't like with down with racist. Didn't realize usually when I'm just pressing yuppie, white people easier. But yeah, that was crazy. Due to Mike, you did not. You didn't geo tag where you all were headed? Right? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, because I'm like, even I was like. I'll go to. Pull up with that energy over there. Right. Literally, you have the wrong and place to be doing. All right. We're gonna. Take a quick break. We'll be right back. Hey, here's a question mile. It's very aggressive, but how did you sleep last night? I slept pretty well actually. Did you? Yeah. Well, you know, I got that purple mattress like you right. Are you trying to like? I didn't have one. I actually forget that you got one hanging over your head, but now I guess we can just hang it over our listeners head that we have purple mattresses and you guys purple mattress feels different than anything you've ever experienced. It uses this brand new material that was developed by an actual rocket scientist. So now I have two things developed by an actual rocket scientists also WD forty a NASA thing. It's not like the memory foam I was used to. It won't be like the memory foam you guys are used to. It feels very unique because it's both firm and soft plus it's breathable so you can sleep on your face. 'cause if you run hot Obel it sleeps cool. Leaving red Pablo as the proper permits Alba. Yes. And you guys, they give you a one hundred night risk-free trial. So if you're not fully satisfied, you can return your mattress for a full refund. It's backed by a ten year warranty. There's free shipping and returns. There is no risk you guys. You're gonna love purple. And right now our listeners will get a free purple pillow with purchase of a mattress. Just text daily z. two four, seven four seven dash four seven. The only way to get this free pillow is detect daily z. two forty. Seven forty, seven forty, seven. That's daily z. two, four, seven, four, seven, four, seven. And we're back and we wanted to check in on the story of Jamal showed Jesus murder in the Saudi embassy because yeah, just a lot of crazy details trickling out a courtesy of Turkey, and one of them is that you know. So the Saudi government eventually came out with their story which they were like hold on. We're we're still working on our investigation which was just like three guys behind a door somewhere, just like testing out different stories. And they finally came out with to show g. came in to the consulate, and then just started a fistfight with like eighteen dudes who just happened to be there or something, and then they had to kill him. So yeah, that was their story and Turkey released all sorts of details that kind of fly in the face of that. Yeah, because they turkeys in an interesting position to right now, like a lot of foreign investment has left the country. They're sanctions against them and. And they're kind of playing this like they're slow leaking stuff to try and get the Saudis be like, hey, if you want to start investing here, maybe we can get rid of some of these tapes, but they're really loving being messy shit right now because on one side, they get to drive a wedge between the west and the Saudis in another one, they can possibly get money for their economy, but either way they seem to know a lot in the more they leak. The more this shit looks like a straight up like Tarantino flick where, like, you know, the news over the weekend was initially before the, oh my y'all. I don't know how he died in that fistfight and got chopped up. But right, you know, fistfights the initial story when he disappeared. It was like, no, we don't. I don't know her right. I think he left check the video read and it turns out that one of the dudes in the fifteen man Harlem or harem Globetrotters has asan's squad. That came through was a guy meant to be a body double to dresses Jamal kashogi. So right after I guess they must have disrobed. Him someone wore his clothing, put on a fake beard, walked out the back of the consulate. So he would be on CCS navy. Even have a guy with a beard. They will say, beard and homemade anywhere the same shoes. Like he, you could tell us. The whole thing was like, dude, the guy is wearing his clothes and then they sent him. He went to the blue mosque and was basically trying to, I think, just appear on TV so they could be like, hey, he was there. You know, even though he's worried fiance was outside in the front. Yeah. Why would he go out the back? Even though he was there to get his divorce papers, and then he went into a party and was like, I'm Jamal kashogi. And that little girl from Brandon's party was like, no, you're not no look at your shoes, mother fucker or party services, a fake beard. But yes, falling off. So then that was been. So that was one element. And then the next thing is we find out that there were a basically four calls that were made from the consulate to the Royal offices in Saudi Arabia. Like, wow, the torture was going on. And then one call went to the US, but we don't know what that is, which. It's very interesting and I won't speculate because we can already smoke shit a mile away. But then you know, the next thing that we find it just gets the layers. Just keep adding up. So that's why we can wait three days and we can just spend fifteen minutes talking about how fucking horrific. This whole thing is. So then on top of that, we found out that one of the heads of like intelligence, Skype in to the Saudi consulate while they were killing Jamal, who show g. basically heads of Saudi intelligence who reports directly to NBS. Right, right. Exactly. And they said they were at one point. He was hurling insults at her show g. hush. Oh, g. apparently clapback with his insults. And then according to the Turkish intelligence, they said, that's when this official who was on the Skype con Saudi Arabia's just said, bring me the head of the dog and then close laptop and just did whatever the fuck they proceeded to do. So, yeah, this whole thing is just getting darker and darker and then on Monday, Mohammed bin saw. On and the king had received kashogi sons to the palace to offer their condolences to them. And it is one of the most like, I don't know, like cringing not cream makes me die inside to like, look at NBS, like shaking the hand of his son and acting like, I don't know what happened. Everyone get to the bottom of this, and it's just a just gets darker by the minute. And every minute you have people like Trump and Jared Kushner be like, well, let's see what happens are like, oh, you know, we got this huge arms deal where we're creating false stakes that daren't going to impact jobs here, like we're trying to make it seem like an this is getting Messier Messier. Yeah. And as super producer on a hose near pointed out, like the whole fuel thing. And the idea that like we are completely dependent on them for fuel is not really true anymore. It's more just a strategic alliance in a political alliance because when the Trump administration started out, they went all in on, you know, fuck Iran. Let's go all Saudi Arabia, which you know they have a hostile relationship. The Obama administration had been more, let's work with Iran so that we're not totally dependent on this one power and the Trump administration went full. Let's let's prop this dude NBS up. So it's not a big, you know, they gotta hold them to a fifth and six world power bottom line is at that asset oil is as good as gold. It's as good as silver. It's as good as diamonds. And if you have gold silver diamonds, you are pushed down before you can ever think about command because they fully understand when I say vais legit. Mean Europe understands that we trickle down from the top of this mug. We come down to the south and we get all the asset. They know the game. I'm right. The Cush Shoghi should is hilarious to me because I'm in this, not not the death of, but it's a Larry's to me in that you will have the average American sit here and give you the details of the Star Wars. Verse. About game of thrones and the when you say this shit is happening right now for the same reasons. They're like, I don't understand international power. I don't get it. Yeah. What do you mean? British Petroleum didn't run a split revenue with Iran when they first found oil there. So then they sent people from the US to stabilize it and put in puppy government, play ball with him. I don't know what that means. I don't know what that story line is. I can't follow it. That person was really knowledgeable for not knowing that. Yeah, it's and then like, you know. We talk about how NBS had that full court press of trying to revitalize its image from buying magazines and things like that. You know, he also played. I don't know if he played a lot of people, but you have people like Lindsey, Graham now who now that the evidence is overwhelming in terms of the kind of evil, that transpired in this situation acting like, I can't believe what happened and like I listen to Lindsey. Graham just be like fully just shocked that how dare he, I don't mind military sales, but I cannot do business with the current leadership NBS. He's done to me. NBS talks about reform the country in a way that I liked. I've never felt more used in my life. I introduced him when he was in Washington, but he imprisoned the Lebanese Prime Minister. He embargoed the country gutter without telling us, and I believe he is responsible for the killing Mr. Kosugi and the most brutal way. And I'll never go back as long as he's there. You'll never convince me that he didn't do this, but you didn't know this is going down also sanctioned the the thing is that I'll never ever sit at his dinner table again. Right? That's that's the, that's the punishment, right? I'm done with him for great. This is not the bachelor, yes. And just a reminder that you know, we talk on this show about the blades blade, what? How there's this whole tabloid empire Brumby David pecker who is Trump's main homey and when NBS was like going on his tour of the western world where he was like, you know. Winning over western powers, and there was a New York Times up dead by Thomas Friedman about like what a dope guy NBS is calling him NBS and being like, this guy's got great ideas. I mean, what can I say? David Pegg are had a tabloid that was all just NBS being like, yeah, great guy. NBS great guy. Great guy. Like NBS weekly, basically what it was with no ads in it. No, it was talking about that because they paid so much money. They just print a book of just fantasy talk about him, right. So you know, Trump was calling in favors on behalf of this dude is going to be hard to convince him, but you know, it's just putting him in a weird place because now they're finding themselves in place where the facts, it's really hard to lie their way out of this, right? That's why Trump on one hand has to be like, well, you know, I don't want. I don't want these deals to fall through we. We can't just throw alliances out the window like this over one kill journalist. But then on the other hand, be like, I really don't like what I'm seeing, right? You know? And it's like, you can't have it both ways. Yeah. So if. Really wanted to get down to gotten down. They they figured out who did it how to how to prosecute these people. I mean, there's an INTERPOL. It's not like the US is working with INTERPOL. I came in on the way today. There were like three different places are working on this. Well, those three places of the most corrupt places on the right? Yeah, yeah. And now the cats are really trying to figure out what's going on with these birds disappearing, right? Yeah, there is a great tweet that our producer on Jose share with us that was a cat with a dead rat and it says he died accidentally. While I was questioning him. Yeah, I thought there was like a argument to be made from an international relations like the realist standpoint that we need Saudi Arabia because of, you know, brinksmanship and like we need allies and that part of the world and we need their oil. But it turns out that's not even true. That's it's more just like Trump and he, he kind of put himself out on a limb to back this guy. Now it's just making them look stupid and and sadly they, they can disrupt a lot of the global economy just because of how dependent we are just in general, all the fossil fuel, how fossil fuels play an important part in the region and the rest of the world. They do have this power to to also shake shit up if they want to. So it's a very, it's somebody was saying that even if they do like shutdown all exports, US like fracking would just go up like there's enough fuel in the world now that you actually don't like they don't have as. Much power as they used to in that respect, which is why NBS felt the need to like, go on this, you know diplomacy thing. It used to be that they could just do nine eleven and just be like, hey, but we got all the oils wanting you go attack Iraq instead. And now because fuel is coming from so many different places and it's more of an international good people don't have to listen to the Saudis. Why I think I think you would immediately affect the Middle East. I, though right then then us oil production. The game is to get the Middle East us all of their oil up first and in Russia, and the United States will have the largest oil stocks in the world. So if you knew you had a diminishing supply of something, you would get your rivals obviously to burn through there. And that's, that's what the United States policy is going to be. It'd be, we sit on oil reserves. You guys give us your stock and then when things turn badly, we've got all the oil and you know this because most presidents opened up the strategic oil reserve. Clinton used to do it. I think Obama did it once this president is like, no, we'll do it to break the Saudis per barrel price. Right? And we're not gonna do it to to give the American consumer a break on their guy. Right, right. So you know that we're about to go into a cycle, November December January is when they're gonna hit us all for gasp increases, but guys did midterms are coming up. So let's talk about things that are going to affect real Americans like the caravan of immigrants who are heading north for. I mean, they must be just feet away from the US Mexican border based on the wedding on Fox News and full of Trump didn't even say terrorists. He just said middle easterners, like he kind of he'd was like, look inside there. There's MS thirteen. There's criminals and Middle East middle easterners. So is that just bad on its own that they're from the Middle East? I don't. Again, you know, because it's not. Even a dog whistle. Just a racist spoke and flare gun. He say self, that's just basically like it's don't look at this people trying to, you know, avoid the hardships or like the fact that we're in bed with the hunter and government. That's exacerbating the problem and just focus on the fact that these are terrorists, right? These are bearings at the gate. Yeah, they're gonna fuck everything up and they are one thousand seven hundred miles away and traveling on foot pace of six miles an hour. We'll stop them breeze rain, maybe even an uphill incline. We stop these people here the numbers go from like there's one hundred people to their seven thousand there, seventy thousand what we stop, seven thousand people from getting into the United States. I don't know a bus right. Two buses parked sideways, do not have a gate is there. People are worried that they're just going to just call up seven thousand. We could've stopped. There have been like five thousand, maybe six thousand seven thousand people. How do you catch all those people? Because again, it's just to incite the the base and just get them on this. This like racist paranoid fantasy of Brown people moving towards the thing. And again, it's an only presenting this story as like they're coming to harm us, not we are. We've harmed their countries and made it unsustainable for them. So therefore there there are migrating to find better lives. They're walking through very dangerous country and they're walking as a group because that's the only safe way to like walk through that part of the world without any protection, and it's full of women and children, and as any group of seven thousand people would be, it's probably has some people in there who aren't with. Children aren't great, but like that's people are willing to just, you know, go with this group because it sucks where they're coming from, but it just underlines again how Trump knows. Fuck on this administration is at every turn their, their answer to a problem is some kind of self defeating solution where it's like, hey, I'm gonna. I'm gonna solve. I'm gonna solve immigration. Okay. We're going to build a wall k. that didn't work. Okay. How about this only be so fucking inhumane to people that they'll never come wait, they're still coming. Okay. Then my next thing is I'll pull all my age to the countries that they're coming from to even worsen the situation like the fuck. Yeah, like there's nothing even reasonably. You're like that? No, no, no, no. None of these are actual solutions in for a while. He was like, well, they they got. We have to like their countries have to be great again, so they don't leave or whatever. But you every time he's proposed slashing our aid to Central America. Luckily congress is like, okay, maybe a. We'll take a little bit of a nothing close to the cuts you're asking for. And also he doesn't have the power to just be like, okay, cutting like that again because he doesn't also understand how the just the general government operates. But yeah, it's just a very every solution is exacerbates the issue and he has, no, there's no awareness. And then even again, he was over the weekend talking about a tax cut. He was gonna give people. Yup. Class tax. Oh, ten percent by next week, right in the middle of a rally, put somebody like in the corner like y'all don't make it hot for me. I can t attacks like ten percent. By next week, you'll see it. And then a reporter was like a my man. Congress isn't even in session you. They have to do that and he's gab, but we're gonna have a resolution and like the like, but what do you mean? There's no-one. No-one can vote on that and he's I gab, but we'll do the vote after. So then how you're gonna get the tax cut and he's like, well, we'll figure it out. You got to trust me. You should see some of the shit that I'm pulling off already. Yeah, I'm just I'm actually just able to lie. Yeah, right questions it unless it's fucking. Think for yourself or like you? Yeah, it's, it's it's about to get real grassroots up in this motherfucker. We're going to figure it out there. If we lose midterms, which there's a significant chance that we could lose midterms possible, but his, it's in the room. I don't know. I guess that's not even wanting to entertain that end you, but like, you know, dig in everybody, you know, dig in Hodge wives, hij- kids, even if we win the midterms. Hodge wife had your kids because the backlash from matched, it's going to be insane as well. I always do. Just want one detail that I thought it was amazing in New York Times article. They interviewed a Republican in northern Minnesota named Carol shields, seventy five care. All love, man. Said she was afraid that migrant gangs could take over people summer lake homes in the state of Minnesota. What's to stop them said MS shields, retired accountant. We have a lot of people who live on lakes in the summer and winter someplace else when they come back in the spring, their house could be occupied. What fucking chain Email did she get forwarded? But this is the thing race. It's very, very, like his rhetoric, his idea just saying, yeah, we're gonna pass tax cuts. Even though it's like technically impossible like that should just works with his. They've stopped like the whole. The media is the enemy thing. He is the only source of information for the people who follow him. He's like, who is the leader of the m night? Shyamalan movie the village who was like the head. Village. I forget the village mayor William hurt or something anyway was just sort of being like, yeah, you don't want to go out there, right? He's fucked up. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I already know. Yeah, you don't wanna ask questions. It's, there's nasty monsters. Just staying here. Everybody shut the fuck up. We'll be okay and like the these people like just lack such real world experience of whether they even understand how what the life of a person who is migrating or what like how people begin to squad on a vacation home. Like what are these people going on? Fucking Zillow or something like what's activity in this property? Like let me go squad over here. What are they? What? What do they think people are doing? And again, the only reason you can leave an operating. There is a probably because you so badly want to believe that people who are immigrating this country are evil or you're just so ignorant that all you need is a Trump or a chain Email to tell you, oh, there was a vacation home where someone was squatting and it may have been immigrants to then go, oh yeah, that's what happens now, everybody's home. Yeah, let's just a little reminder. We don't watch our lifestyle. We don't. We don't want your shit. Nobody wants to live in your lake house. That's baller to Hugh. Brett was bothered us is hanging out with each other, some secluded as location about love lakes. I'm really into the vacation lifestyle, but we're gonna live in Minnesota's cold bra. Right. And also just presupposes that these people are criminals off top rather than this is someone who? Yeah, they're coming here to fuck him. Hi, you're heal your your your lake house? No, these people coming here because they're trying to better their lives and they're not trying to go from eight z suddenly. Right? They're like, oh yeah, I'm just I'm walking from Honduras to Beverly Hills, and I'm just gonna kick a door down and this is my house now like like a lake houses ever appeared in Eisai rocky video. When you start seeing your shit appear in our videos, then you can be nervous until just just go ahead and keep that when that cut just as at rocky, just swatting. Mosquitos Minnesota's real bad for mosquitoes in the summer. It is. It is. Yeah, yeah, lakes to know another GOP candidate family is begging you to vote for, not him in Nevada. It's amazing. 'cause I year like people like Bob good lights, son was being like, my dad's sucks. And then there's that other guy who all his siblings were in that ad like, and I know he sucks because I'm his brother, his sister, and now there's another op-ed for this guy. I may be pronouncing his name wrong. Adam, Laxa it. He's he's running for governor in Nevada. He's the Republican candidate. And his his family members published an op Ed in the Reno gazette being like, please don't vote for our brother. He's full of shit essentially is what it boils down to their. Like for starters, the mass claiming he's from Nevada, first of all, yes, he was born in Reno, and then we move the fuck outta there when he was a baby and lived in DC for all of our lives. He only moved back in two thousand thirteen when he wanted to become a politician. Next point, he acts like he's so folksy dude have and then like they're bringing up this thing that he did like the Basque fry, which was like some, you know, they had like hay bales and things, and this is the thing they're talking about how like he has like this fake aura. This is from a quote from it. Adam is dressed in a quote, western shirt monogrammed with his campaign logo quote, work boots engines that looked like they were ordered off Amazon the week before if Adam is elected governor, these values will be put in danger. So they're talking about how he's just a train wreck. They just go down a list and it just show it shows you that people are starting to sort of get fed up with other people's bullshit to 'cause they're just be like, man, like. Before it was fine when he was just trying to be a politician or whatever. But I think they're seeing how aggressively full of shit. Some people are like, I'm sorry, I have to. I have to air this dude out this too much, and you gotta start snitching start snitching because because just like people just like the Germans were like, man, somebody turned our family into the Nazis. You can do this shit on the left to. You could be like, homeboy is not a liberal at all. This dude is straight up saying that he bought Tom's but he don't wear Tom TOMS to work. And then he goes home and he puts on baby ostrich small, small African children who get beat up by small Asian children paid to do that. We need t- cycle white people. You gotta start. Snitching dudes. Y'all got a start. Snitching on dude, be super creepy. Don't don't. Wait until people come forward. Don't wait till you're black friend is like that person's a little racist. Don't wait for your girlfriend to come. Be like that dude's a little creepy. Start snitching. All right. We're gonna. Take a quick break. We'll be right back. Miles, you've heard of Robin Hood having my favorite Kevin Costner film and Morgan Freeman has painted man, great accent work by him. But no, I'm actually talking about a phone application. Yes, Robin Hood is actually an investing app that lets you buy and sell stocks options cryptos, you know, all your market stuff. See, I like that because I see a lot of people getting evolve cryptos in the market, what have you. But I grew up in a time and place in culture where I really don't know anything about the stock market. So like what am I fancy millionaire? That's exactly where Robin Hood comes in. They strive to make financial services work for everyone, not just the wealthy. Okay. So is easy to use? That's my thing because I look those letters. I don't know what it's about what these numbers mean, and it's all commission free. Super easy to use a perfectly designed app and Robin Hood is giving listeners a. Free stock like apple Ford, or sprint, help build your portfolio guys. So sign up at daily dot, Robin Hood dot com. That's daily dot, Robin Hood dot com. Get you, your free stock. And we're back and we'll have to make new merch starts niches stores. Meets you. Snitch is get rich hugs stitches. Get Richards get routed. Right? Is one dude like have a whole glow up from being like the wokers frat dude, guys. I got to put this whole frat on blast, and then he gets like he gets like a deal and then they hastened. They get richest. That would be awesome, but took us. It's video. It's videos, do drop rookies into girls drink. If. Speed, beaten his ass. Wordstar. I mean, yeah, that's the change has to come internal changes to come. We'll do it. Twitter poll on whether snitch is get riches or snitching get hugs is the better catchphrase spend. Hug my landlord. I get a victim Brian. I know from experience right. I want next month. So to talk briefly because there's been a story that's been sort of slowly trickling out over the past couple of weeks. Just about what the Trump organizations business actually is. Adam Davidson a New Yorker writer. This is kind of been as beat for the past. You know year basically just kind of keep an eye on all investigations into the business side of the Trump administration and the Trump organization. And he just he wrote a short article that was called is fraud part of the Trump organization business model and just kind of made the point that if you look at the history of the Trump organization, they go from like one business to a completely unrelated business to a completely unrelated business. And these are businesses where you don't raise money in the same way. You don't raise money from the same people, like all of the things are different in a way that makes it. It makes no sense light with a snake oil salesman who goes from town to town. No one knows what they're up to king medicine that basically has the same ingredient which is alcohol rate lakes, Ristani. There's a reason you don't see people go from builder of lower middle-class apartments to builder of luxury buildings to casino company to brand licensing firm to like just seller of its name on buildings and bottled water. It's like nut none of those things really contribute to why other we do because we live in Hollywood, right? So we see, we understand this concept and the truth of the matter is like, oh, boy builds buildings. Casinos are very large buildings. He knows a bunch of builders that makes sense guys an interior designer, and he's suddenly moves to cruise ships. That makes sense to me because a cruise ship is a space and he's good at doing spaces. So I get how he's doing. It's that they keep moving around and burn people from right from business and that they're able to raise capital because they become corporations. That's the thing that people. Need to look at like this has so many businesses that are illegal bright, but there's gotta be some laundering going on. Oh yeah. And he's so old school mafia that he's got to be guilty of something that a prosecutor even a base level. I'm trying to tell you could send the NYPD to Trump's house and they were find some shit. Yeah, I guarantee it. Yeah. So I knew about the New York Times story that was like thirty thousand were like too many words to read the whole thing. But basically it was all about how the Trump organization was founded with money from Trump's dead Trump said he only took a one million dollar loan that he paid back from his dad, and he was a millionaire by the time he was eight and was just, you know, making just getting all sorts of money and finding different ways to avoid paying taxes on it. Most of them legal, some of them questionable in terms of their legality. But there was also a WNYC investigation that came out last week that was all about. How the Trump organization does deals internationally. And it's basically like this shit is all fraught Greece, bro? Yeah, it's basically Greece where like they just get money from countries where you know nobody would borrow money from that money. Yeah, go to Turkey, just deceptive. Borrowing getting people to buy in and then just the bait and projects. Shuddered writes, the Trump organization makes off with money and a bunch of other people get screwed and they go from one country to the other doing that. Yeah. And then what are you going to do? So like he builds a building in the us as crooked contractors. Most contractors have street level operatives who you, you're a legit, dude. You just wanted to put the mirrors Trump hotel. Right? But the concrete company is is a little dirty. It's got some guys will show up at your house and he knows that that's the difference between Trump and everybody else is that we are all fucking with the mob and gangs. We dealing with like, oh, somebody needs a TV. This dude is the syndicate syndicate is really rich. White dudes who are the mob, it's it's a control of all the rest shit. It's the people who own the planes that the people who own the poppy fields. It's those cats. He's always been with those cats. He's been filthy since he was a kid. Yeah, and his daddy was filthy. Oh, really? Really bad. It's like the Kennedys only less class because Joe Kennedy was a bootlegger and then he wanted to get out the business. So we put his kids into politics, and that's what we're watching right now. Right? Yeah. And what our future president von Trump. Deigns to run jersey. She's not going to rush. You're gonna be like, she me like I'm Basseterre like someone windows man fucking think about is like, I'm not gonna run in twenty twenty Yvonne because yeah, I bet she'll come away from this presidency if not in prison, she'll be like the things I saw this due to my father, the mainstream media. Right, right. Totally uncalled for and I will never like we'd watch Titian. Please watch out for Nikki Haley show up on the scene. She's for price that she scheming. Yeah, we saw that sell the move coming from a mile away. So I love how everybody get out there right after either either about to do some dirt or they Justice would Nikki Haley. Mike boy, we kill a journalist an embassy and now you know. Interesting because witness have been under your jurisdiction, something to look into the UN on whatever, whatever. And just saying that has showed, gee, said that the thing that made NBS like, tell him to stay quiet. And I've said this almost every time we talk about this was when he criticized Trump. So you know, that could've just been like you fucking up my money. Yeah, could've also he did go after the prince directly. Yeah, he did, but not shit. He should a little little bit of. No. Well, no, I wouldn't say a little bit of non better. Thank you for your service. Yes, here's serious. Do we know when his son's showed up at the palace? Was that just like out of fear for their life? Yeah, essentially. Yeah, super producer on a Jose just informed us. One of the sons has a travel ban and cannot leave the country. So, yeah. I mean, this photo is frightened, it will. It will shake you to your core. He's just like shaking. He's like, yeah, I'm sorry about your dad, your the kid. You could just tell like he's shaking the hand of the person responsible for father's death, right? Like grisly death? Yeah. What a fucking demented power moved to pull somebody like that, but that is that old shit. Yeah, that three BC type shit. Yeah, you know. All right. Let's talk about this mother Jones story, a Florida man. Always the start of a good news story was arrested Sunday after allegedly groping a woman who had been sleeping on a plane Yip and he told authorities that President Donald Trump said it was acceptable to in the words of a federal criminal complaint quote, grab women by their private parts. Yes, I was, yeah, groped a sleeping woman run the plane. And yeah, I mean, it was. A matter of time, I think because clearly his racist actions brought all the closeted racists to be like, okay, let me take my mask off and it was only a matter of time before. I mean, I'm you'd look at the people. We just confirmed to the supreme court and shit like that. Of course, like I thought this would happen before racists. Yeah. Like whatever. I mean, like you said, we have president pussy grabber like problem. Yeah. And this shit is up. I mean, a sexual assaults are up, racist crimes. Are. I'm not surprised that he did that and I'm not surprised that it use it as defense. I wouldn't be surprised if it worked. Right at the point that we're at if they were in an all male jury with a judge and all men, prosecutors and defense attorneys if somebody was like, yeah, well, the Trump defenses, it's working on a lot of cases across the contracts. It's it's the best thing since stand your ground. Yeah, and I mean, it does seem like, yeah, it seems like we've seen his behavior sort of have have a backlash effect with the metoo movement, but it is probably the time where we're going to start seeing the backlash to that back. I guess I don't wanna cabin. Yeah, and I'm not trying to present it as if like, oh, no one was being groped on airplanes. Prior to this. I mean, this is always been an issue, but like to have people just be like, oh, why did I do it? Because my logic is the president said, this is this is twenty eighteen twenty whatever. And there's no loss. All right, guys. Let's talk about Drake. Oh my goodness. This man, even when he loses. He wins. There's something you know. I don't know what his secret is. Maybe that he's just really good at collaborating with artists that will guarantee him hits like that bunny, but that track MIA basically put him above the Beatles now because now he has the most hot one hundred top ten songs in a single year in sixty four. The Beatles had eleven hard day's night. Can't buy me love, it's cetera. And this year Drake has twelve. So my I mean, it's it's, it's, he's, he's on a roll. We stopped, can't be stopped. He's on a hell of a run. Do you like Drake are like I'm going to be honest. Like I like some Drake for Emma, certainly liked him when he first started out thinking everyone did you. There's a track where he's like, I'm trying to do this thing where I saying now I hope it works out and it was like really don't because his rappers go. He's probably one of the few that can sing and rap same time kind of saying he kind is gonna wind all because auto tunes, yeah, can wind melodic way, but he was such a. Kid and he seemed a thin tick initially, Ryan, some of the stuff. What I would like is if his, you know, it's my two cents. Oh, keep it much shorter miss next time, but it'd be cool if if his comments about women changed, I hope that he matures as a man. I don't know. I mean, he seems to be friends with fucking bunch children too. Right? Know why the fuck man that was Millie, Bobby Brown, like giving her dating advice, showing the restaurant down for the eighteen year old that he's like when. So you think the shoes drop with this dude. Also we need to. We need to keep a very close eye on Abry. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I do keep an eye on him. It's important to be a mentor, but you know, you could have been a mentor to some a girls that weren't already gorgeous celebrities, so you can always tell it. A man is friend. He's like, oh, yeah, sponsor ladies. I'm good to everybody that you look at all the ladies that he sponsors and you're right, but they're all gorgeous being right. You'll have nobody in their this. Like, you know, it doesn't look like a just Instagram thirst. Trapper somebody not trying to have a liberty right that you're not in your mind. Some like, hey, the guy's playing video. You know, here's hand out money to whoever, but he's still wouldn't, but but you know, it's amazing to me that that shit always fizzes me off because. Do your budget was a million? You handed out a million, but you worth so much money and also long long-term gains think you understand Jackson men. Also, you're just exploiting these people need. So you couldn't just flat right in a video, come Bill on this. Just want you beat reduce some actual philanthropic work and not make it a music video and not to for everybody to be like, yo the God's plan video, right? He made that one family cry with money, right? That's a reflection of our economy and our society, not him being DAT, and God needs better representation because a lot of people be jacking them. Be like, thank God for this, right? How God is getting screwed on these fucking of God's brand. Right? But I mean, Drake is kind of getting to that level of success that like Elvis, Michael Jackson level where like is not slowly slowly. I mean. In terms of hits he's, but I'm gonna tell you like the the stats don't hold up because if we're talking streams and shit, that's right, right. So that's not really fair. I'll gave him his props. I just mean how dominant as an artist. I'm not going to go and be like Dan. I mean, half like most his recent albums have been filler basically like each album, MC, maybe two songs. You're like, oh, that was used to have albums where the whole album was good, right? But you know, God bless him. I think congratulations on your success. I'm not trying to be a hater enough then, but I I will also call spin spayed and say like, these are the issues started hanging out with women who are your age. That'd be nice. Yeah, it'd be nice Brandon as always it's so fun having you in studio him. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you so much for having me. The people find you. A lot of stuff I got coming out, it's going to be animation. So it's going to be two years from now, but no, really two years from the a nightmare because I got bills to pay right now. I'm trying to get in the clubs right now. I'm trying to do stuff right now, but human is on a net seven hundred. Hey. Also, thanks for thanks for like two years from now, be animated, famous Brazil won't even recognize him. My life sucks basically until you could see me outside, I'll be in front of the building man trying to get this money. Isn't that good fan though? That people will recognize you on the street, but you'll get done or convince people that you're successful like, oh, what are you doing like? Well, in two years. Right. Okay, sir. All right. And is there a tweet or some other piece of media? Because I know you're not on Twitter, Twitter, young, never getting these jokes for free and my shows where all right. Where's your next show? Probably be doing a harm in town checkout where you wherever you find out and listen to podcasts, I'll probably pop up on a harmony town. Okay, I'm happy to be at this one. This is really, I'm in the now this one case. Let's start this over. You should do relive this one. We'll go back to the first time. Brandon came straight miles working. People find God. You can find me on Twitter and Instagram at miles of gray out of, no. I had to be LEGO, Batman, right there. A tweet that I like is from Jamal hill who actually just quote tweeted this interaction that was with Trump talking about the tax cuts that he said we're going to happen and it just, it just says, well, let me just read you this interaction and the. I'll say question and the president question, you said lower tax cuts. You said that you wanna tax cuts by November. First, congress isn't even in session. How is that possible Trump? No, we're going to be passing. No, no. We're putting in a resolution sometime in the next week or are we gonna have two weeks question a resolution where we're going to put in. We're giving a middle income tax reduction of about ten percents. We're doing it now for middle income people. This is not for business. This is for the middle. We've already given them and question. Are you signing an executive order for that? No, no. I'm going through congress, but congress isn't in session though. We won't have time to do the vote. What do the congress is out though? We'll do the vote after the elections and Melilla puts the president is Leslie Nielsen from airplane. Oh, yeah. What a joke world be living. Oh my God, good dinner, ROY tote. Something at me said, you know that piece of trivia you bring up about Tom Selleck being the first choice for Indiana Jones, and then he captured an image of magnum PI next to Harrison. Ford is Indiana Jones and then superimposed over that are chip and Dale from Chippendale rescuers and they were dressed, like magnum PI Indiana Jones. I did not know that and people were like, man, you of all people really should have known that shit chip dill, rescue range, and another tweet. I've been enjoying his pixellated boat, tweeted Trump Ted Cruz here tonight. Great guy. Great guys, wife looks like shit. The big, beautiful baby. Aren't you Ted Ted Cruz naked except for a diaper? Yes. Say Ted, Ted Cruz Papa. Photo of him where he shaking hands with Trump and Ted Cruz is like, spine is curled overlay. I just wanna capture knew what bike. Is everybody. And then Joe brek tweeted Caitlyn Toronto has the best laugh. All podcast listeners agree. So keep being funny to all the people who are on podcast with her and I concur you can find me on Twitter at Jack underscore O'Brien. And before I tell you where you can follow us, we want to tell you guys about an exclusive offer. 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The show note Chanel miles, what's on are we gonna read. That's no name track. Actually. This will be Diddy Baath featuring Cam OBI row read. This is from Chicago. Emcee name has Brandon brought up. So. This was from some. What's so good about Nonni. It's just don't listen to her. It's different. It's not on. This is the direction where I like hip hop to be going. She's exactly what you know. There's not. I think people get a little bit myopic in what you can talk about or rap about in what's hip option sound like or look like. And I like artists that are challenging because the John RA is very, very malleable. Then I wanna see people bended ways it does. It can be pen to mid place. So yes, this is a good one in the productions really great to guitar sampler. All right. You're gonna ride out on that. We will be back tomorrow because it is the daily podcast. Amazing. It's not like this is. He's the catalyst, have been the mockup this on the plague are running. 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What happened to Jamal Khashoggi?

Skullduggery

1:19:43 hr | 2 years ago

What happened to Jamal Khashoggi?

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The soul of America and you know, I think it's great. Yeah, because what in fifteen minutes, you got everything that there is to learn that the thing is is that you know you're, you're moving fast. You got a lot to do. You know, you'll get to the long version of the book at some point. But if you want like a really smart distilled crystallize version of it, you know it's a great. It's a great way to get that. All right, right now blinking has a special offer just for our audience, go to blankets dot com. Slash skulduggery to start your free trial or get three months off your yearly plan when you join today. That's blinking spelled b. l. i. n. k. i. s. t. dot com slash skulduggery to start your free trial or get three months off your yearly plan. Blinking dot com slash skulduggery it sounds like a plot straight out of a Hitchcock movie, a prominent foreign journalist enters his country's consulate Nissim bowl. To pick up the papers he needs to marry the woman. He loves, but he never comes out after his worried, fiance context, local authorities. They launch an investigation, they're denied access to the consulate. And soon they get intelligence reports still unconfirmed that the journalists had been murdered his body dismembered with a bone saw for days the mystery of what happened to Saudi journalist, Jamal kashogi and why has gripped the world's attention and raise new tensions between the United States and its longtime allies. In Riyadh, we'll talk to a longtime friend of kashogi who few short weeks ago was smoking cigars with him in northern Virginia just before he left for his fateful trip to stand ball a trip. He had hoped would start a new life of marital bliss, but may have ended instead with his brutal death. It's one of our subjects long with an update on the Russia investigation and some fascinating new insights. Into the supreme court. Brett Cavanaugh has now joined on today's skulduggery. There is absolutely no collusion. I didn't make a phone call to Russia. I have nothing to do with Russia. Everybody knows because people have got to know whether or not their president's across. I'm not a crook told the American people. I did not trade arms for constitutes my heart and my best intentions still tell me that's true. But the facts and the evidence, tell me it is not. I did not have sexual relations with that woman. The British government has learned Saddam Hussein recently saw significant quantities of uranium from Africa, but he times to answer this question and you just shit rooms. A Michael Isikoff chief investigative correspondent for Yahoo news, and I'm Dan CLYDE, min- deter and chief of Yahoo news. You know, this kashogi story is wild and it's really truly a crime mystery that has all sorts of international implications. But I gotta tell you just for the start on Monday the very day, this story is blowing up in the international press. I get an Email from the Saudi embassy in Washington telling me that his Royal highness prince collared bin Salman bin Abdulaziz the Saudi ambassador to the United States requests. The pleasure of my company at the national day reception for the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Thursday, October eighteenth that's coming up just next week. I can't think of more awkward time for the Saudis to be holding their national day reception when the entire. World and the US government is demanding answers about what happened to one of its most prominent critics. Well, first of all, a pleasure of your company is a figure of speech. Mike? I don't think there's actually. I don't think. I don't think. This any government in the world that actually wants the pleasure of your company. But having said that, you know as your editor, you absolutely should go. It may be a little, but you know, speaking of awkwardness the next week, there is a big investor conference in Saudi Arabia that that the government Saudi government is putting on. I think they, they're calling it. DAV does in the desert and there are many, you know, titans of American business. We're going to be there. Steve Mnuchin, the Treasury Secretary supposed to be there and man talk about awkwardness given all that has come out and and I think actually the crown prince is supposed to be speaking there. And now he's been pinned potentially as the person who actually orchestrated this operation by US intelligence. So it'll be very interesting to see whether these companies. Start pulling out and whether Mnuchin ends up going, you know, this is a look at this is a the. The relationship between Saudi Arabia is very complicated for a lot of reasons or. Really important, regional power, obviously bulwark against Iranian, incredibly wealthy oil reserves and all of that. And so generally speaking, US diplomats, want sweep this kind of controversy under the rug. If it turns out that Jamal kashogi was lured to the of it in innocent bull murdered and dismembered very difficult to sweep that under the rug. Right, exactly. And look, I, it is worth noting. I'm we're going to talk about this with our with our first guest coming up. Jamal kashogi was not some wild eyed bomb throwing critic. I mean, he was actually very tight with a lot of members of the Royal family. He was a principal advisor to Prince Turki who had been the head of Saudi intelligence for years and then was the Saudi ambassador to the to the United Kingdom. As so, you know, his criticism. Uh-huh. Of of NBS Mohammed bin Salman were the the critiques of an insider who really wanted his country to reform who wasn't plotting a revolution. Who wasn't a terrorist. So it makes it all the more puzzling that the Saudis would go to such extreme Wayne's to silence and exactly and I think we should go to our gas to will will who are think we'll have some really interesting insights on that question, and we now have on the line college safari a Washington political consultant analysts specializing in the Mideast and a friend of Jamal kashogi college. Welcome to skulduggery. Oh, thank you. Thank you for having me. So I wanna ask you about your relationship with Jamal kashogi and your insights into what might have prompted the Saudis to do what they apparently have done. So just to start out, you told me you had met with kashogi at your house just a few weeks ago before he left. For example, if we, we. Met frequently gets together. I goes and for chart. And so I used to see him once in a while. And we, we discussed the time developments with Iran, you know, the beginning of September. If you remember there was development Administration-wise, increasing hostility and criticism of Iran, or discussing Bolton's jump Bolton speech, and so that it was the most discussion about Iran and how it will affect the go for gin. If it was a war or military conflict team, they use in Iran and what was his attitude? Was he approving of the US ramped up pressure on Iran, which of course was the Saudis traditional enemy, or did he have some reservations all? It's his way this where he was never found of Iran, and he was much closer to the Saudi official position that Iran causes havoc and Eddie causes many problems with its CEO Iraq. Or Yemen. So he always defended this position. I remember we hosted him on Capitol Hill speaking. They were Neiman and April and he defended this position. He sits all that he had to go to your meant to stop on from expanding in that region. And some people accused don't being Saudi agent. So he defended many of the Saudi government official positions. So he was never an enemy of the Saudi going. He never wanted to overthrow it. He just wanted reforms, right? Although I should point out that his last column for the Washington Post, and I should emphasize that one of the reasons this has gotten so much attention is because kashogi was a contributor, irregular op-ed contributor to the Washington Post. But his last column on September eleventh. The headline was Saudi Arabia's crown prince prince must restore dignity his country by ending Yemen's cruel war. So he was criticizing the Saudi. Military intervention in Yemen? No. In the beginning he supports identify Incheon, but with the amount of casualties special civilian casualties and stalemate no win situation. The soldiers would not getting any advancements on the ground. He was saying it's time now to stop. So no, he and he said that in April and lecture, I mentioned, he says, I suppose it though in the beginning, but I think now it's time to stop it. He thought that the continuation of this conflict in Emon only coast Saudi Arabia lives and money and arms and many, many, the Miami population been the biggest victim. So he was for stopping door, but then icial lounging or he supported well, Colin one of the things that Mike and I were talking talking about before you join the program is we're just it's. Seems perplexing to us that someone like Jamal kashogi who yes is a critic but has also been a supporter has been loyal to the to the Royal family is they're plenty of other dissidents out there who are also have been very critical of the of of of the Saudi government and the Royal family. So why what is do you have a theory as to why the Saudi government would go to these lengths expose themselves to so much controversy and diplomatic peril. I should say, we don't know exactly what happened yet, but certainly there is a lot of more than just speculation that this was something done by the Saudi government and perhaps even orchestrated by the crown prince Mohammad bin, Salman himself, all, you know, it's a difficult question because you don't. What's going in the mind of some of my, but I believe he has no tolerance for the slightest disagreement and Jamal, having the Washington Post as his medium to get his idea was for them is a scary thing. Awesome. Composer one of the most important newspapers in America. Probably one of the most important to the world and for Saudi who doesn't see eye to eye with regime or the government or the kingdom. For that company is a big danger. He doesn't like anyone to challenge him, and he ended up putting many reformers reformers in jail, and he kept some of the most extremist, religious, what hobbies out of jail. The people that called for in Iraq against the US or feel that called Shia must be killed because they're hurting those guys are still surrounding him. They all have their privileges. They're all having. They're still have the power and the people that ask for before for women to drive for some democratic changes for some sort of freedom of press all those guys are into. And he said that Jamal said that he said he is im- jailing their own people. He said that in a column he wrote in the Washington Post a year ago. Yeah. And I think. College. You indicated that that was the column and I've got here in front of me now Tober thirty first, two thousand seventeen Saudi Arabia's crown prince wants to crush extremists, but he's punishing the wrong people that that was the column that really put him on the wrong track with the Saudi Royal family with NBS himself and did was Jamal aware of that that that column really had ruffled feathers back in Riyadh. He probably did, especially that article came in the middle of this charm campaign that the Saudis and prince Mohammad bin Salman was having they spend hundreds of millions of dollars in the US and the west to selling the idea that he's reformer that he's going to change Saudi Arabia into the twenty first century that he's going to build these huge projects and transform the economy into non oil economy. All these big promises. So for someone to come on right, something like this that saying the guy's not really what he is telling the world. He is for the anger Hamad a law, and you indicated, I believe that in one of your conversations with him a few months back that he had told you that the Saudis had. We're trying to lure him back to Riyadh, offering him a job. Tell us what he told you about that and what his reaction to that was. Oh, he told me that. So funny. So I'm caught. Funny is. A close advisor to prince Mohammad bin Salman. He has the title of ministers. That's a cabinet. He called your mom, and he asked him through term and he told him to come prince would love him back. And he would like to give him a position as an adviser close adviser. He said, we know you're loyal Saudi, you love your country and we love you and the call came early in the morning. He didn't tell me what Tuohy said it's early. He would discuss this at nine fifteen the morning few hours before I saw him. He had called. So I said, so what do you think? Would you go? He said, no way I could me said, I don't trust them on bit. And why didn't he trust them? He knew you knows your mind was part of the Saudis Schmidt. He worked with the king of the line. His close, he worked with confides and close circle was very close to family. He was. Adviser to Prince Turki who was the head of the Saudi intelligence before he worked for him. But you know, your mom was always a guy with independent mind. Shimon was of two newspapers, and so that was fine twice for taking an off the ducks lines when he was a 'cause he called for the the government to Mudgene allies, religious hobby, stubborn. And he said that there's too much problem destroying the comfy and we are the twenty first century. He was fired. He had similar article and another people news fired and about two years ago, he spent a year establishing a new TV station in Bahrain called out of TV, and that TV station aimed for twenty four hours was shut down within twenty four hours because one of the shows they had they brought about rainy opposition guy from London on the show, and they. Shutdown that paper that TV station, Jamal was banned from writing by the Saudi government in little published by the ministerial of information was sick later than publishing only speakers banning him. And another gentleman who resides now in exile in London, banning them from writing and any paper on even tweeting. And he found that very insulting and I think he starts planning to leave Saudi Arabia after that college as a the theory that the original plan was to lure kashogi to Saudi Arabia and detain him there, but perhaps not kill him and that in the end that was not successful. So they manage. They had this opportunity at the consulate and his estan bowl and that, but it went awry somehow. Do you give credence to that or do you think this was always intended as an assassination? It's possible. No, I would. That's probably that's what they wanted. But the big. Question Mark, what would they have runs the doctor with them? Yeah, that's chilling. That was a chillier. Retail, let's write. This is part of the team that flew in from from Saudi Arabia into Istanbul. They included a forensic doctor if so, that's a big question Mark, but I don't know. It's a, it's a possible feeli-. I think the Saudis probably leaked to the press because it was published yesterday by two British newspapers, and there's all this probably threat to leak it that way. And let me ask you about what you think the the reaction will be and what kind of diplomatic repercussions the Saudi government may may pay. I mean the the initial reaction from the US government was a little muted and it's taken a few days before President Trump made some strong statements. Do you think that that ultimately because of the import. Sense of Saudi Arabia in the region as a bulwark, against Iran, as the wealth of the Saudi government. The important position it plays in our geopolitics that at the end of the day, we'll go back to business as usual, or do you think that this is some kind of a turning point that will really have important implications for the relationship going forward in normal circumstances, but this will be a turning point, but under this White House, I'm not sure you know, this is the most unorthodox administration ever and Trump doesn't. It's difficult to predict his reaction. He has lots of hopes and I think he said that yesterday on TV somebody portrait of that, we don't want to lose business and the and stuff like that. So it looks as Saudi Arabia as a piggy Bank, but he can get the money and create jobs in the US. You probably would not care much about one more journalists to being killed. His rhetoric against journalists, probably encouraged us all. Just to do it because probably thought the journalists from hits journalists and they would not to act if we kill one drums. Well, that's a, that's a fascinating point. Just final question, call it when you met with him and we're smoking cigars at your house. If you weeks ago was, did he express any anxiety or concern about his welfare? He was about to fly as Sam bowl to pick up these documents so he can marry his fiancee. Was there any? Did he have any hint that he might endanger? Okay. No, I think many people who run away from exile, Middle East stumble, a London are becoming refuge for many of them not only as lamas. I mean, there's some Egyptian security and left wing activists are take your in stumbled. So I think that's why fought he felt safe and Turkey. Because many political, if you were residing stumbling, whether they're from u. e. or from Egypt on from Saudi Arabia and other countries in the region. So no, I don't think he was prohibitive or was cares of going to cattle. And what was your reaction when you heard he had not emerged from the consulate? I was really surprised. I was shocked that he even went to the council it. So that was my first action that's putting a. Accurate news because on think you'll go there. And so later on realized because he told me you'll never go to the embassy here in Washington. What would he go in Turkey really? By the way, I, I don't know if you've got the same invite. I did, but it's the Saudi national day reception at the embassy. This coming Thursday, October eighteenth. Are you planning on going? No. No. Well, probably just as well. But as a journalist, I feel obligated Collin, thanks for joining us on skulduggery and we'll definitely want to have you back as the story unfolds. Thank you, Michael. Thank you so much college appreciated. When we return, we speak with Washington Post national security correspondent Greg Miller about his new book, the apprentice, and he also shares his thoughts about the disappearance of his post colleague, Jamal kashogi. All right. We are joined now by Greg Miller, national security reporter for the Washington Post, and the author of the new book, the apprentice Trump Russia and the subversion of American democracy. Gregg, welcome to skulduggery and more importantly, welcome to the club of people who write books about Trump and Russia. Thanks, thanks. I appreciate it. Listen, I wanted to talk about the book. It's a really great read and fills in a lot of blanks. But since you are there in the Washington Post news from the story, everybody's talking about right now is Jamal kashogi, Washington Post contributor, who has disappeared ever since entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul last week amid reports that he was murdered inside, Greg. What are you know right now about. Your colleague, Jamal kashogi and what happened to him? Well, thanks for asking me and it's been a devastating period here at the post. And I think more broadly from for journalists everywhere because this is part of the wave of of terrible things that are happening to reporters or columnists or journalists he, he obviously we have a very close connection to him here at the post. He wrote a column for our global opinion section where he was often critical about the Saudi government obviously, and you know, it might be easier to get away with that when you're doing it. I mean, when you're doing that for the Washington Post and the Saudis are worried about that voice and that criticism surfacing in front of important people here, I guess that you know, that's always a dangerous thing, but nobody ever expects it to be this dangerous. And it's really, really just totally disturbing. I mean, what we know now where we're still of trying to piece this together is that he goes to the consulate with his. John say and never comes back out and that some of our reporting from there. And here suggests that US intelligence had some clue that the Saudis we're going to try to do something to him, capture him, hurt him some in some way. And there's just a lot more questions than answers right now about whether if if that's true, what do that information and where does it go? Yeah, Greg, before the show, we were talking a little bit about some of this really gruesome information that's coming out about this case. You know exactly what this team of Saudi assassins did to kashogi and the idea that that his body was dismembered. We don't know if any of that is true and the source you're making the point that the source of this information is the Turks. And so talk a little bit about what you know the basis for what we're hearing and how credit. Will you think it is given the fact that the Washington Post reported your paper reported that there was this intelligence, Saudi, Saudi conversation, Audie officials talking about this, some kind of a plot. I mean, I think that's pretty solid. I mean, I've heard that from here the newsroom in Washington as well from the American side. I mean, obviously, this is the early stages of this story, and you always have to be cautious on and breaking in developing things like this, that that you're gonna misunderstand or get things wrong. But yeah, I mean the, but you know, all of these stories have also attributed this alleged dismemberment to Turkish sources. And I guess I just feel like you know, God, I hope that's one a for for this poor person sake and his family take. I hope that's not true. And also I just hope we're not rushing to conclude that based on some Turkish sources that this is exactly what happened in and before we get to the bottom. So just to connect this to the subject of your book. Look, I the Russians have been quite aggressive in taking extreme measures over the years most recently with the poisoning of Sergei all in in England. Is it fair to assume or suspect that because the Russians have gotten away with things like that, it might have been Bolton folks like the Saudis to take the same route? Yeah, Mike, I mean, that's a that's such a great and big important question right now. Right is there is, does the the US and the President Trump and some way contributing to kind of a culture of impunity around stuff like this in part because of how he looks at Russia. And obviously, you know, this is a guy who during the campaign said, you know, when confronted with direct questions about Putin's killer. How can you say such nice things about him says, you know. You were what were so good. We're so nice. And you mentioned the the, the attempt to this assignations and Salisbury and in the book I write about how after after that, it took her cue leeann effort by his national security staff to keep him on board with imposing sanctions and expelling Russians after that assassination attempt. I mean, he wanted to pull the plug on it until the berry and and yeah, so how does how does it? How does this relate? How do you disentangle this? And how much can we say this encourages other regimes to think that this is an okay, this is something you're going to get away with in this day and age? Well, I, you know, one thing I think it's worth winning out is kashogi journalist, and are there a lot of people who've expressed enormous concern that President Trump's antipathy and very harsh rhetoric. At least rhetoric. So far toward journalists hadn't even has given license to dictators around the world to to do these kinds of things. Right enemy of the people. Exactly. But I wanted to ask you, Greg one, I think interesting observation. If not conclusion, perhaps theory in your book is, you know there's been all this speculation about Putin's Trump's obsequiousness toward Putin and almost subservience some some might even say, and you know, people have speculated that that you know if the idea of compromise the, you know, the famous p. tape or does or to the Russians have something on on Trump's business dealings in Moscow that they can use to essentially blackmail him with, but what you theorizes what if the compromise that that Putin has on Trump, you know, has been out there in plain sight. All along and one to talk about that. I think you know what I'm getting at here. Sure. Sure. I mean, I think you you raise some of the theories, right? These has been one of the big questions hanging over Trump as president from the very outset. Why does he do what he does? Why does he treat vitamin Putin the way that he does and the farther along we get, you know, I sort of put these theories in kind of a hierarchy now. Yeah, maybe there's a p. Maybe there's some compromise on him with prostitutes. I don't know. Nobody's proven that nobody's established that, but certainly possible. But then when you look at how he has survived scandals of that nature, not completely unscathed, but relatively unscathed. It's hard to maybe that wouldn't really give Russia definitive leverage on this guy if they had such a tape, and then there's the, the financial interactions which are we're, we're only beginning to sort of understand and we're a long way from getting to the bottom of and and I've been perhaps Muller is going to eliminate us on that fr. And perhaps there will be connections there that we just don't. We don't see and understand yet. But you know, when I was in Helsinki and I went there to cover this summit and to be in that room when Trump meets Putin, just sort of occurred to me that God that the the, the fiction that Trump clings to most fiercely is that there was no Russian interference and Putin faced this question point blank during that press conference, they they did, and he was in position to pull the rug out from under Trump right next to him if he had said, yeah, absolutely. We did this. What leg would Trump have left to stand on and sort of cling to this idea. He he always pointing to Putin's denials and describes them as strong denials, which is for Trump code. You know, just high praise and sides with him over his intelligence service. What if he no longer had that excuse? Let's. The title of the book. The apprentice is an interesting one. How'd you come up with it and what are you trying to convey by using that word? Is your title? Well, for starters, Russian roulette was taken by money. So you know there's so there's. So there's that insert insert Amazon plug right here. Right. I, you've chased him e. So the title to me just worked, you know, we kicked around other titles that seemed clunky, covert, action, active measures. I mean, like nobody knows what? No, no real person knows what those things mean. But the apprentice sort of captured so much to me on many levels. Right? It's the show that made Trump famous. He arrives in office really unprepared for the responsibilities of the presidency, like an apprentice and you used a word a minute ago subservience that to describe his relationship to bladder MIR Putin. Almost. Sometimes he seems to be Putin's apprentice aspires to conduct himself in office in the way to Putin does envies the arrangement that Putin has you don't have to put up with pesky special counsel investigations when you are the leader of Russia or a free press or a disobedient congress or anything. Right? It's so that's that's the explanation. Greg, the the book justifiably has your name on it, but you are showcasing a lot of the reporting of your colleagues at the Washington Post, as well as your own Pulitzer prize winning reporting. There's I want you to talk a little bit about some of those scoops that that you all had, which form the basis of a lot of this this, you know, continuing story, but one in particular was a. A day when when your colleague? Ellen Nakashima comes back to the newsroom and checks her mail, and there's a, there's a letter there and she opens it up and takes your breath away. And this was a letter unsigned from someone on the Trump transition team. Sounds like it came from Trump Tower that described a really astonishing meeting an important part of the the puzzle here. Talk about that for a second. Yeah, that was so the book you right there. There's not a lot of this, but there are parts of the book where I sort of turned the camera inside the post newsroom to describe how things unfolded here when there were really dramatic moments, and there were a lot of them during this stretch for coverage of Trump and Russia and the campaign, and that was one of them. So Ellen is a close colleague covers cyber issues for cybersecurity, and she just as you said, went to the newsroom or to the mailroom and and there was this on. Volet there, and we all go to our mailroom these days and mostly just get press releases and other things that we throw in the trash. But this one had no return address on it had a little Snoopy stamp in the corner on it, and it just, she opens it up. She when she gets back to her desk and it's typed up thing with no signature no way of contacting the author and it lays out just is person describes him or herself as being part of the Trump transition team working inside Trump Tower, privy to things that are deeply troubling, that the press needs to know about, including, you know, real concerns about conversations that Mike Flynn who was the designated national security advisor was having with Russian officials. Now you guys know. So we've described the story that this this document elsewhere and people get confused mean this is basically amounts to a roadmap for us or sort of a tip sheet, but it's not a source. There's. Because we don't know who it is. Don't even. We can't confirm any of established that per serving that this person is who he or she represents himself to be. We can't print this. We can't run with this. We can only treat this as a some some guide to our lines of inquiry in our reporting. And that's how it worked. I'm a little surprised that Ellen hasn't heard from Devon Nunez by now with the subpoenas, so he can identify who the mole inside the deep state is is going running to the Washington Post. Well, fortunately he's busy running around Europe, right? Trying to try and find Christopher Steele. Yeah. So speaking of steel, you book deals with the Steele dossier, and the efforts by post reporters to try to verify the many allegations in the Steele dossier, we talked about the tape. You mentioned that remains unverified there's no corroboration for that yet. You talk about how post reporters, Tom hamburger, and. And a colleague went to Prague to try to verify whether Michael Cohen. Had been to Prague to meet with Russian officials on the on the collusion that was supposed to have been taking place during the campaign and you came up empty-handed at this point as you've reviewed all of it, how much of the Steele dossier in your view checks out how much doesn't it all and has been shot down and how much remains in this murky area of? We'll never know. Yeah, I think that that's a great question. I think that the Steele dossier is sort of this Warsak test for for people now that they people on the one end of the political spectrum. Look at this one completely differently for mother's then left. But for news organizations, we were just trying to. I mean, we were just like astonished at the allegations in it from the start and just scrambling for a long time to try to get traction on those as. Reporting targets. And so I would say that big picture wise men that thing looks accurate impression right from the very first memo describing a Russian operation to interfere in the election and throw. It helped Donald Trump win before anybody was saying that. And that's remarkable. In hindsight, when you look back at that, the more granular it gets the harder it's been to confirm including the allegation that everybody knows about that Trump was consorting with prostitutes in the Ritz Carlton in Moscow, it's not to say that any of that has been disproven. It just hasn't been substantiated yet. Greg, I wanted to go back to that document that Ellen Nakashima found in her her mailbox of the Washington Post which you described as a kind of a roadmap to the investigation because I think it does raise an interesting question about the credibility of of a lot of these allegation. And the reason I say that is because one of the things that was in that was was this information about Jared Kushner President Trump's son-in-law trying to create a back channel to the during the transition to the Russians to the Kremlin so that US intelligence would not know about secret conversations and communications that they were having. And you know, it's, it's, it's a pretty pretty astonishing giving that it was already known that the Russians had waged an unprecedent, you know, cyber assault on our election and and even the Russian ambassador Kislyak is communicating back to his bosses in in in Moscow saying what a kind of astonishing things thing this was for for Jared Kushner to do. And so my question is I is this, is it possible that this is just kind of naive t on on on Jared Kushner's part. As opposed to, you know, some of well-thought out nefarious behavior and that and that that kind of knife TAY actually drove a lot of the behavior that looks really suspicious, but may not be part of some larger well, organized a plot to collude by the Trump administration. How do you think about that? I mean, I think that's a perfectly reasonable way to look at this in some ways, and that's ban question all along or they just naive, if not stupid sometimes versus are they gave Lia and or are they in intentional here? I would just note that few other data points though that that make that argument a little harder to hold onto like. So we get this memo from somebody inside Trump Tower. We also know that they were other people inside the transition. I wrote about one who were deeply troubled at Flynn's conversations with Kislyak in the freak. Quincy of them and what they were talking about Princeton to the point that they actually staged a mini intervention with Flynn during a meeting to try to impress upon him what you know, what are you doing? Don't you realize what happened here? And so there were people who were warning them and they are. They're Flynn and others are disregarding these warnings or not listening to them, and that just makes you wonder why I think, and it just happens. There's such a pattern to it if they're if they are if night potato is really the reason that in the aftermath of the US election that in which Russia becomes a dominant sort of story line and is interfering. You know, in a demonstrable way that the entire US intelligence community calls out and even after that, that's not enough to make them back away from Russia and say, you know, we were cool with our conversations with these guys for a little while. I just find that beyond implausible some in some way. So what's your alternative explanation? I mean, I just feel like they really, I, I don't. I think there was all of this as you said earlier. A lot of this played out in the open and that has been disorienting for all of us who've tried to cover it and understand it that there is so much conduct and behavior hair by Trump and his team toward Russia that is so deeply troubling in and of itself that just the fact that it happens in the open, doesn't sanitize it or make it less. So in some way, I try to do this. You know when I get this question, what I'm talking about this publicly, sometimes I try to make the audience, do this little thought exercise. Like what if we had learned weeks or months later that Trump had secretly communicated to the Kremlin Russia. If you're listening, could you please look for those missing hero emails and they had done so. And they actually had in fact launched spear fishing effort to do that. I mean, it would. I mean, it would be an enormous development, but somehow because it happens in the open, it confuses us. It's just something we're able to process quite the same way. Hey, Greg, one one area where you do have a lot of new detail is a part of the Russian scandal that I think maybe somewhat under appreciated and under scrutinized. And that is, you know, the massive and systematic effort to leverage of the Russians leverage our social media platforms to spread this information, and you know, so discord among the the US electorate, what don't the American people fully understand about that effort? And how does your book fill in some of those important details? I mean, we devote more than a chapter to that, and thanks for asking that mentioning it. I mean, it was a high priority for this book to try to really help readers understand that because it was so difficult to understand when those stories were were breaking. At the time and even for we, we can look back now and you can see the Facebook itself couldn't comprehend what was happening inside on on its own platform for much of two thousand and sixteen, and it's only in the aftermath that they really face this deeper reckoning with with what happened. So I I would say is just, you know, so. So often you get this question or or argument that will so what there was some clunky messaging on Facebook from Russia proved to me that it altered a single vote. But I think now when the as as much as we know about it now and we know a lot about individual advertisements aimed at black lives matter, moving aimed at different parts of the population that were highly, sorta specialized to be divisive and to turn black Americans against Hillary Clinton and others. It's the, but the math of it ultimately is what's so overwhelming. Now, I mean, Facebook now knowledge is about what is it? A hundred and twenty million. People in the United States were exposed to significant amount of Russian propaganda during the election, and we in the outcome, turns on fewer than eighty thousand votes across three states. It's a massive, massive problem, and it's not not to say there weren't other huge issues that were more important than the campaign perhaps meeting. I, I write in the book that Hillary Clinton's obvious flaws as a candidate in Jim commes deceives his curious and controversial decisions about the handling of the Hilary. Clinton Email investigation were obviously huge factors, but you can't dismiss the Russian interference. If you know anything about the magnitude of it and the expertise that they deployed. It doesn't have to be the only decisive factor. There could be multiple decisive factors, right? And if some of the stuff in the book is like the the, you know interviews, but that my colleague in Russia, Anton Troyon off ski did with people who worked at the internet research agency and described their day to day jobs have just turn. In out this crazy or Weli and content watching like house of cards on Netflix to brush up on the American vernacular so that they come across as plausible. Well, we're going to have to wrap up in a minute, but we'll let you go back to your job and I, I wanted to ask, what's your best guess as to whether a Bob Muller is, is you know, wrapping beginning to wind down, wrap up, how much longer do you think this will go? I don't. He goes on that much longer. I think we're in the final stretches. We see him sloughing off staff already, but then I have to always caveat and say, Muller is running the tightest most most secretive ship in Washington right now and who the hell knows. Greg, thanks for thanks for joining us. The book again is the apprentice Trump Russia and the subversion of American democracy. Thanks so much guys. We'll be back with more skulduggery. The stock market can be a great way to grow while, but it's not easy to be a successful investor. So what can you do if you don't have the time to put in the work and become the next Warren Buffett, introducing an firm vestments appear equity automated investing platform. Emperors, portfolios have outperformed the market since inception have consistently pay dividends and are designed to help you achieve your financial goals. Experience the emperor difference for yourself and get your first six months free by visiting emperor, invest dot com. Slash Yahoo. So Mike, since we launched this podcast, my list of books to read his doubled may be tripled, and I just don't have the time to read all the time or read all the books I wanna read, but our sponsor blankets has a great solution. It's the only app that takes thousands of the best-selling nonfiction books in distills them down to their most impactful elements. So you can read or listen to them in under fifteen minutes all on your phone. Hey, just curious to they happen to have any great books on say, oh, I don't know the Russia scandal. As a matter of fact, they do. In fact, I downloaded the app. First thing I did was I searched a book called Russian roulette written by myself and David corn. Yeah, and it was pretty cool, and you know it, they've got a massive library. I searched around to see what else there was. I checked to see whether any of our other friends or colleagues had books on blankets, and our old boss Jon Meacham is, is there with his. New New York Times bestseller the soul of America. And you know, I think it's great. Yeah, because what in fifteen minutes, you got everything that there is to learn. Look. The the thing is, is that you know, you're, you're moving fast. You got a lot to do. You know, you'll get to the long version of the book at some point. But if you want like a really smart distilled crystallized version of it, you know, it's a great. It's a great way to get that. All right, right now blinking has a special offer just for our audience, go to blankets dot com. Slash skulduggery to start your free trial or get three months off your yearly plan. When you join today. That's bleakest spelled b. l. i. n. k. i. s. t. dot com slash skulduggery to start your free trial or get three months off your yearly plan. Blinking dot com. Slash skulduggery. All right. Now in our continuing series of mini Newsweek reunions, we've got our old colleague David Caplan on the phone. David who's got a really interesting and timely new book out on the supreme court call the most dangerous branch inside the supreme court's assault on the constitution. So welcome to skulduggery. Thanks for joining us and I wanted to start. Did you call me old old friend is in, you know, I. Old. Hey, we're all old in it happens, you know. So let me just start by asking you about the title of the book because the most dangerous branch looks to be an ironic play on Alexander Hamilton line about the supreme court, the least dangerous branch. So explain the title. Well, obviously the president, any president can begin a nuclear war so that can be dangerous. Right? And congress can pass foolish laws or no laws at all. But I argue in the book that at a more insidious level, it's the supreme court. That's the most dangerous because it's self-aggrandizement its power grab over many decades has resulted in less prestige for the court. It's resulted in feeble congress. It's distorted presidential elections, like in two thousand sixteen when a significant percentage of Trump voters chose Trump even though they detested him, but they did so because the court and I think it helps lead to the kind of circus we had. In recently with with Brett cabin on and at this particular moment with Brett Cavanaugh sending to the supreme court and the court. Now having a five to four conservative majority, there are a lot of people out there who are thinking. It's the most dangerous branch because it's gonna tilt the the country to the right for decades decades to come. But you argue in your book that this is a a bipartisan problem. This is across the logical spectrum liberal liberal justices and conservative Justice are responsible, right? Yes. And of course, liberals are unhappy now. They were all together, please thirty years ago and maybe even twenty and ten years ago with some decisions. Judicial activism is what the other guy does. But I argue in the book, we're all judicial activists, and that's my complaint in the book. I interviewed a majority of the justices for the book on background. I can't tell you which ones I talked to even under relentless questioning by cough. I won't tell you, but one of the liberals. And one of the gun cues. Me, it hasn't even begun yet, but go ahead. Yeah. Well, I'm I'm, I'm filibuster and even though they got rid of it, one of the liberals and one of the conservative justices each told me when I was giving him the gist of the book I half agree with you, and they said so of course, with a smile. And that's the problem they just disagreed on which decisions represented arrogance on the part of the court. I want the court to be more restrained on more cases across the board. That is not to say, I want an impotent court. The court should be assertive. It should be protecting the on unpopular writes, it should be protecting minority rights. But too often it gets involved simply because it can. And as I got the sense from any of the justices, they get involved because they look across the street at congress, and they look down the road at the White House and they say. Those branches aren't doing their jobs, if not them, it has to be us. But you know, I've checked my constitution and I don't see any clause about if they're chuckled heads and the other branches of government. It falls to the supreme court to run the country. Okay. Justice, Kaplan, give us two examples of liberal decisions that that you consider judicial activism, improper and two examples of conservative improper judicial activists decisions? Yes. Let's everybody I argue, for example, that Roe v Wade and to a lesser extent, the same sex marriage, a decision were liberal decisions. The court best should have not got involved in not because I disagree with their outcomes. I fully agree with that outcome. Wow, you would. You would not get a single democratic vote for confirmation based on that? I I'm, I'm I'm, I think cliven told me I'm already too old so concern on the conservative ledger. Well, these days if much past your bar mitzvah, you're too old for the supreme court. They really want young folks on the conservative side. I'll give you three since you ask for to Bush v gore deciding presidential a tie in two thousand the gun control rolling in two thousand eight and the campaign finance regulation, ruling citizens United on the conservative side. Yeah. I mean, you always me which are workers. I think Bush v gore is the worst decision of the court probably since dread Scott, but the each have their defects. And actually one of your nuggets in the book is the Sandra Day. O'Connor came to realize that her vote in Bush Bush gore was was with Ron, right? Well, she acknowledged he new years. Afterward, maybe about a decade that the court best should've stayed out. But I report in the book and I was astonished to hear this, you, you always wanna learn stuff in reporting book for your to that that you didn't know any few months after the ruling in late two thousand. Her husband now deceased told a dinner, a dinner guests at a cherry Jenner in Washington that his wife Sandra Day the Justice new, the ruling was wrong, but she ruled, she did because she wanted to retire to help take care of him. His health was beginning to deteriorate, and she would only leave the court. If a Republican was in the White House saying decade later, maybe we should have stayed out is not the same thing as her husband's saying, shortly after the ruling, she knew she was wrong on the day. She, she was the decisive. Oh, I was stunned. So we've just been through this gut wrenching experience of the of the bread. Common on a confirmation fight, which left a lot of people angry on all sides. We have people talking about major changes packing the court impeaching cavenaugh ending lifetime tenure for justices. Any of those you think have a shot. Any of those you would endorse I think is a shot. I, I saw it a speaking event. Jerry Nadler congressman will will probably head the impeachment committee. I mean, the House Judiciary committee house. I if Democrats take the house and I, we were sort of kidding. And I said, who you're gonna peach, I and he, he demured, but smiled. They can impeach cavenaugh they want. He's not going to be convicted in the Senate. So it's not gonna go anywhere they can talk term limits getting rid of life tenure that would require a constitutional amendment. It will never happen the par. Party quote, unquote in power would not agree to it much as of course twenty or forty years ago. They might agree to it, but court packing, I think, is a real possibility in order to add seats throwing to make it larger. You only takes an act of congress and a presidential signature. And if the Democrats take over the house, the Senate and the presidency in twenty twenty. I think you could see a real push toward court packing. It didn't work after you are proposing in nineteen thirty seven when supreme court decisions weren't going his way when new deal legislation was being thrown out by the justices and people on both sides of the aisle attacked court packing quickly enough the court reversed course. So there wasn't any need for it. But I think in the hyper partisan world in which we live, you could see court packing get momentum that, yeah, I think I would. So he wouldn't do it because sometimes to rebuild. Institution you have to destroy it. Court packing would be really bad for the court would clearly bring the court down to the same political level as the other branches. And you could imagine twenty twenty five or twenty twenty nine. The Republicans saying, okay, we're gonna put more. We're gonna put our own people on the court. Eventually the court eventually they're going to need a bigger building. Yeah, court. We'll have more more people on the supreme court than in congress. I mean, is it just be a mean that would take awhile? Take awhile. I there's land nearby. They could. They could make the place. The bigger. The hope would be that eventually both sides agreed to disarm even the party in power. But I think I would endorse that because I don't know how else you rain in the court. I think chief Justice Roberts represents the best hope for the court that maybe he's a conservative, don't confuse him with a moderate that Justice Kennedy sometimes was, and Justice Roberts has been in the vanguard. Of of campaign finance decisions holding it the first amendment preventive campaign, finance, regulation, citizens United, and he's also try to eliminate racial preferences in any number areas of a law. But I think more important than those rulings eighties possible that much as he did in Bush in the ObamaCare ruling. He might place the institutional needs of the court above particular decisions likely, no. I wanted to ask you actually a bit because I thought your portrait of of Justice Roberts was interesting and nuanced on the one hand and 'institutionalised. But there are also questions about how much of it is about his own personal reputation as opposed to the courts reputation and how he wants to be viewed historically. But also I thought, well, first of all you, you report on the extraordinary tensions between Justice. Roberts in in and Neil Gorsuch was the last Justice to be put on the court by Donald Trump really seems like no love lost there. And. Although he's not several several several rags at the court, I'm not telling you clerk, Justice, whomever, but a lot of folks will say that Justice worse, it just performed the impossible that he's unified the courthouse. So they all can't stand him. It's a bit exaggerated, but it's more than rookie hazing, you would not expect Justice scores edge to be the one who they'll go out, you know, for a beer with a way to beers of wrong that I should mention beer. Sorry, what? What is it? About course, it's that that inspires that animosity bullet, a China shot at some the court, the court functions by seniority. He is important and he's the rookie and he came in there. Guns blazing at argument at conference. He just the the chief of the very first conference, the private meeting of the justices that only they attend, not even author. And shortly after Gorsuch was confirmed, the chief invited into the verse conference and. Of course, it said, I'm not up to speed on cases. We haven't done ethics reviews on them, and I have to take I ever prior engagement taking one of my daughters on a college tour and that annoyed the chief u. justifiably. So because he figured the press would get wind of it. And we write about the sort of nonsense the court and we did. I think you're quite right in in describing Roberts his own con concerns about his place in history and about the courts institutional prestige. But the two aren't at odds with each other, but make no mistake. I report in the book that a few years ago Roberts was going to lunch with some clerks at one of them ask quite innocuously how you like the job and and to the clerk surprise. The chief said something more than you know, it's great honor being the seventeenth. Just she seventeen chief Justice in history. He said, you know, they'll. Only be one, John Marshall, the chief who served at the beginning of the nineteenth century for more than three decades and is considered the most important Justice in the history of the court. He says, you know, only Marshall had the chance at greatness. I was born in the wrong ura and I thought that was a telling example this chief wants to be great. And I think he may ironically had the opportunity in many ways. Cavenaugh is the anti Gorsuch. He's a guy who's affable seems to get along with everybody. And I was struck by first of all his swearing in where you had Ruth Bader Ginsburg and and just as briar sitting there, Justice, Thomas, all attending his swearing in and the initial reports of his first his first case Elaine, a Justice Kagan, and he were getting along famously and yukking it up after the oral arguments. Canelo is a creature of Washington. He pretty much left town only to go to college and law school, and he has relationships with most of the members of the court, and he and Roberts briefly served together five recall the dates correctly. Elena Kagan when she was dean and Harvard Law School hired Brett to teach there. Brady's popular guy in Washington, even among journalists, have heaven forbid Gorsuch was a out of town or and just doesn't do as well with people. So it doesn't surprise me at all that cavenaugh showed what he showed. What did what? What shocked me was his performance of that press conference. That's at that some oneal swearing in. You could have argued that after what happened, maybe he had to go to the White House for the ceremony, but you stand up, you say, thank you very much. Mr President, it's a great honor a work hard to do my job and then you sit down instead, he delivered a speech that if you close your eyes could just as well have been delivered by somebody from the well of the Senate. And I think that makes him look terrible. I think it makes the court look terrible. You see one point where cavenaugh is thanking Mitch McConnell. You see clearance time. His clapping. You can't do that. What happened to the rule? You know it state of the Union's where state of the union addresses the the justices sit there saying nothing. All right. Maybe Sam Alito says not true when Obama criticizes something in the citizens United ruling, but keep quickly. They sit there stone faced, and I think it was a bad moment for the court and showed terrible judgment on Kavanagh's part. I wanna follow up on this David, you know, I've been saying all along that it that cabinets conduct throughout this whole process has been the conduct of of someone who's you know, essentially a a political operative, you know, in in judges clothing. Obviously, he's also a an accomplished jurist, but you know, he's kind of reached back to his roots as as a political operative, but having you know, gone through the that unbelievably polarizing and contentious confirmation hearing and and knowing that the country has gone through. You know something as painful as what we just went through with with this confirmation hearing, don't you think that you know he may have felt an obligation and maybe it's not such a bad thing to stand up there and say, okay, it was a very painful, very brutal fight. But now we go back to the business of of of judging and I'm going to be impartial. And I thought it was important that he said I have not been embittered by this experience which allow. I think I think those two or three cents is might have been fine, but he went about fifteen sentences too far, and you Danny as a fine editor would would know that less is more. I get himself harm in the public's eye, not among movement Republicans, but that's not as audience if he's trying to reassure the country that was not the reports of that speech that I thought were outrageous. No, I don't think that'll hurt him within the institution. The court has shown time and again that it moves on, there were no, there was no bit bitterness. Silence Clarence Thomas. He's one of the most popular justices on the on the client, right? Yeah. And I, I asked various justices about the legacy of of the Thomas hill hearings almost thirty years ago and they recognize it took place, nobody forgets it, neither do law clerks, but you move on and it doesn't hurt that he's as popular figure in the building as anybody. He's popular among the Justice, these popular among staff in the building. So I think that helps. I think Brett will be popular it as well in the reporting. In this book, I found out quite accidentally how popular he was with within the DC courthouse where he's been a federal judge for more than a decade. I do not think he will have any issues, but in terms of the public's of view of the court, I don't think you necessarily helped him so right, and then could we should point out, you know, he took a lot of flack deservedly. So for his his testimony. The his angry testimony where he reference the revenge of the Clintons and the anger over the Trump election as being the reason he was being. Accused of of all these, he and his things, but let's not forget as I think you point out in the book Justice Ginsburg during the presidential election called one of the two candidates. Now, President, Donald Trump faker who had no consistency at all. Just said whatever it was in his mind. A lot of people thought Kavanagh's, conduct disqualified him from making decisions or ruling on cases involving liberal interest groups. But Ruth gator Ginsburg by the same token isn't recusing herself from issues involving the ashram. In between those Ginsburg. I think Ginsburg was justifiably criticized for those remarks during the two thousand sixteen campaign and several of her colleagues as I write in the book a privately chastised her for. But I think in degree, I, I'm not saying that every dog gets one bite, but I think it degree and context would happen with cavenaugh was for worse. Now he is a wise politician. In addition to be, you know, the conservative and the partisan that he was working for Ken Starr and the Clinton investigation of working in the Bush White House. But it would not surprise me to see all in the next year. Make some speeches at law schools doing exactly with Danny Trump, lamented him for the other night in trying to show bipartisanship a little bit of humility to sound more like a judge. What surprised me about the other night was at that point, eight one. You could argue that whatever excesses. He displayed in his testimony right after Dr Ford, he had to satisfy the president United States who might have pulled his nomination that evening if cavenaugh didn't perform well. So you could argue the ends justify the means, however, overboard he might have gone. But once he was confirmed once he's at the White House, he's done, he's on the court for life short of extraordinarily circumstances. At that point, you water act for more removed than he dated. Remember Obama's two nominees. There wasn't there wasn't even a a White House ceremony. Just appearances are important. That's all we're kind of Justice. Is he going to be. Acknowledging that my predictions are invariably wrong, although I was right with with cavenaugh from a year ago, nine exactly. A bold prediction. I think he will be certainly the right of where Justice Kennedy was, but I do not think he will be as far to the right as justices Thomas Alito and Gorsuch are or will be. I think Cavanaugh will surprise some movement conservatives and veer closer to the center that chief Justice Roberts represents calling. John Roberts is centrist is silly like he's a conservative, he will. He passes for the middle of the court given the other members of the institution. But I think having will be more of an 'institutionalised than three die hard conservatives on the court. And I don't necessarily believe in a lot of psychobabble when it comes to judges, but I wouldn't be surprised at least in the near term five years. You see Kevin bend over. Over backwards to be more of a centrist and disarm his critics. So then for example, enroll v way, and I was going to side. And I was going to side. Right? The reason for that you're gonna say you do not you. You would not see cavenaugh kind of wholesale overturning Roe versus Wade, right? I don't think you would anyway, but I didn't all the more interesting things. I don't think they need to write think they can if various state regulations limiting abortion come before the court, I think you'll see a five, four majority of the court say, that's constitutional that's not an undue burden, which is the court's test for determining constitutionality of an abortion regulation. But once you uphold the regulation about consent or a waiting period or a what abortion clinics have to have by way of quick -ment and other stuff, and all those things. Obviously, your limitations on abortion. Once you pull them, there's no need to declare Roe v Wade unconstitutional, and it's in the court's interest not to do. So I think much more than issues like abortion and certainly same sex marriage, which is resolve. Than his not been controversial except perhaps when it comes to the religious freedom of of employers and such, I think you will see the conservative majority of this court go away after federal regulatory power, but the lawyers referred to Chevron deference, vast discretion that the court that the court has given to the EPA the SEC, OSHA, and so forth. Those agencies have vast discretion to implement broad statutory language from congress. And I think you'll see that cutback. That's what Steve Bannon's great grail was in the White House. It is a and it is the grail of a lot of conservative lawyers like Boyden gray. The first George Bush's White House counsel for a lot of those conservatives they don't really care about the socialist is what they wanna do. Is Kerr tell federal power. The irony of course of cutting back on the powers of the agencies is to the extent congress does not. Nothing who then makes the decisions. It's the nine unelected unaccountable justices. And that's my complaint in the book. One one last question. You mentioned executive power. If some aspect of the Muller investigation winds up in the supreme court, whether it be a subpoena, whether it be an issue about indicting president or something related to that, how does cavenaugh come down to show me what the specifics are of the case. But I don't think there is any chance that he would recuse himself justices don't like recusing themselves because unlike lower courts where you could find some other judge to hear the case, there are no substitute for the nine justices and going to an even number of justices just sets the core sets things up for trouble. So I think all the talk of refusal is silly. He won't with us. Self. I think it will depend on the merits of the case. And my hunch is that even though they ruled five to four in last term in Trump against y, the travel ban case, I think you would see some effort on the part of of the court to not have as divided the institution. You know, it hasn't been reported as far as I've seen. Justice Kagan a few weeks ago at UCLA spoke to a group and talked about minimalism and gradualism in restraint. She was talking about in the context of a court with eight justices on it. 'cause cavenaugh had not yet been confirmed, and she was referring back to the period in two thousand sixteen and seventeen after Scalia died. And before Gorsuch was confirmed. And I think I, she was suggesting that maybe the court would do better to try to rule small to go small and not big. But of course, she's now one of only four. Four and the other five have the majority. So we'd have to see. In some instances that might that might be an approach that that would appeal to Roberts as well? Well, clearly appeal to Roberts and I think to some extent, having all to his credit and in I heard from lots of academics and judges both sides of the aisle in the reporting of this book who all said, that leaves side ideology and politics. He is one of the ten twenty best judges in the country. You wouldn't have heard that necessarily about Gorsuch will for that matter soda my or our decade earlier. So I think whatever else it is you think about capital whether you think he should have been disqualified from the court because as retired Justice Stevens thought because of the sexual assault charges, I think as a judge, he will turn out to be closer to the middle than than people expect. I may not. Satisfy his critics. But I think it's the case despite all of the rawness, the raw feelings and the anger out there you think that that just the Justice Cavanaugh may may surprise people. The merits, but I think that Ryan or is not likely to dissipate so quickly and perhaps justifiably. So I was surprised that there were no protests in the courtroom on the first day of argument. Public appearances while you're here in Washington this weekend? I do. I have. I happen to be speaking of politics and prose up on upper Connecticut avenue on Friday at seven pm and my my questioner my interrogator will be none other than Mike Issakov. I've been holding my fire for that event the giving you a pass on this one. But anyway. And he called my doctor, my dosage, yeah. All right. Well, listen that. Thanks for joining us on skulduggery. It's a real pleasure and best you Danny. All right, good. Good to talk to you. Thanks for coming on and we'll have you back on again soon. I hope thanks so much. All right. Take care. Thanks to call it safari. Greg Miller and David Caplan for joining us on this week's episode, don't forget to subscribe to skulduggery on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts and tell us what you think leave a review. The latest episode is also on Sirius XM on the weekend. Check it out on photos channel. One, twenty four on Saturdays and eleven eastern time with replays at ten pm and then Sundays at two AM and one PM. We'll talk to you next week. So Mike, since we launched this podcast, my list of books to read his doubled may be tripled, and I just don't have the time to read all the time or read all the books I wanna read, but our sponsor blankets has great solution. It's the only app that takes thousands of the best-selling nonfiction books in distills down to their most impactful elements. So you can read or listen to them in under fifteen minutes all on your phone. Hey, just curious to they happen to have any great books on say, oh, I don't know the Russia's scandal. As a matter of fact, they do in fact downloaded the app. First thing I did was I searched a book called Russian roulette written by myself and David corn. Yeah, and it was pretty cool, and you know it, they've got a massive library. I sort of searched around to see what else there was. I checked to see whether any of our other friends or colleagues had books on blankets, and our old boss, John Meech. Is is there with his new New York Times bestseller the soul of America. And you know, I think it's great. Yeah, because what in fifteen minutes, you got everything that there is to learn. Look. The thing is, is that you know, you're, you're moving fast. You got a lot to do. You know, you'll get to the long version of the book at some point. But if you want like a really smart distilled crystallize version of it, you know it's a great. It's a great way to get that. All right, right now blinking has a special offer just for our audience, go to blankets dot com. Slash skulduggery to start your free trial or get three months off your yearly plan. When you join today. That's bleakest spelled b. l. i. n. k. i. s. t. dot com slash skulduggery to start your free trial or get three months off your yearly plan. Blinking dot com. Slash skulduggery.

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Ep.145 | Journalist Slain in Saudi Embassy? & The Left Turns on Kanye

The News & Why It Matters

46:03 min | 2 years ago

Ep.145 | Journalist Slain in Saudi Embassy? & The Left Turns on Kanye

"The blaze radio network. On demand. This is the news and why? Why? Why it matters. I'm Sarah Gonzales. Welcome to the news and Wyatt, Matt. Gosh. You really is hurricanes all your show. You're listening to a podcast every day. Yes, they pay me to listen to it. We have to sit here through it, but I do listen. It's Friday and you're here. I'm here. Yeah, we Steve unfortunately couldn't join us. I know we. All right, Glenn, what's your top story story? I think the most interesting story and the one that could have global ramifications is this bizarre story out of Turkey and Saudi Arabia. So weird media cork, I think we have which we get into these cultural flashpoints and then we never kind of examine what happened with them. I've got one for you today. You mean there's something that happens in the new cycle and then everyone forgets about it. Yeah. And then after they destroy. Okay. Just checking Jason. I'm right along with the boss, man. I think it's the same as actually the Saudi journalist, but my. But held my angle is probably from just the way the the differences in the way the media's covering it, how they've been covering this guy for the past decade versus how they're covering it now, and I don't expect them to go do any further digging on. You know, before we get into all of that, one of our sponsor, my patriot supply, we were just talking about Balout shelters and shelters. Yes. And just what what we would do, what would happen in the event that there was sort of actually live in a in a part of the country where you don't have you don't have a bomb shelter for dooms that you have it because of tornadoes. And you know, we don't have one at our house and it's it's really thinking, I don't know how people grew up here with tornadoes and weren't free adult freak out all the time. But it's, I mean it's really something that you need to worry about here just like in Florida. You've got to worry about, you know, hurricanes. Yes, exactly. So here you build your fallout shelter. You build your your tornado shelter, and you need to get some food to go along with it. Right because you don't know how long are going to be trapped in that place for an hour. So I need to re. Does. Okay, so I need a microwave oven, the heat it up. I don't not going to know. Sorry, but it is my patriot supply. They've got breakfast, breakfast, lunch, and dinner, and they've got what is it a twenty five year shelf life. This two weeks, -mergency food supply. I mean, think about taking your kids out to my wife. We go out with my kids every Saturday to have breakfast, and my family is growing with grandkids and everything else. My wife told me how much it was every weekend and I'm like, what you're having cereal here at the house, seventy five bucks for two weeks of breakfast, lunch and dinner. Only at my patriot supply right now. I think it ends this week and it's prepare with news dot com as prepare with news dot com. Twenty five year shelf life. Yeah, I try to stockpile Taco Bell and it didn't work out. Doc in you're eating. The twenty five minutes here. All right. So the the journalists will let me let me tell the story and then let Jason tell the the media spin on it because it's such a story. It is an amazing story. It is the story, Grace, Kelly, and Jimmy Stewart, tell in rear window if you've ever seen that. Nobody believed him because it was too horrific of an idea. So here's this Washington Post journalist that everybody loves more on that in a second that everybody loves. He's a Saudi citizen. He supposedly was friends with the prince, the new prince, the guy who's you know, the mover Jacor and he's liberating, the Middle East. More on that in a second as well. Used to be friends then became a critic then left has in self imposed exile and starts writing things about Saudi Arabia and the prince and everything else. So he's in his done Bill. Khashoggi and the reporter, and he has to go and get a the paperwork from his divorce in Saudi Arabia, he s get the paperwork and his fiancee is in the car with them. And he says, you wait in the car. I'm going to go to the embassy here in embassy in instable, and I'm going to get that paperwork. I'll be right back out. Wait for me. So she waits she waits and she waits and she waits and waits no Khashoggi coming out. She phones him no answer. No answer hour after hour after hour. Finally, she puts out an alert. The Washington Post gets involved and says, Saudi Arabia where where is he? Oh, he laughed hours ago. Did he see TV cameras, show him going in shows no one coming out. They claim. We don't know what happened to him the next day. We find out that at the same time that he went in about an hour late. Ter- there was the prince's jet that landed in Histon Bill. It's a, it's a Gulfstream private jet in a bunch of guys get off with a bunch of what appear to be empty suitcases on the way to the appear to be cases. It was a lot of luggage. We're carrying up bunch of luggage. Lot of luggage didn't appear to be heavy, right. Okay. We don't know. They could've just been like super strong. So they loaded in the car, but on the way to the embassy, they decide they need to stop and buy extra luggage, have more. Have more more luggage, right? So they stop and they buy a bunch of extra lobby luggage, we know that empty. They have to make one more stop to buy a bone saw naturally depot. It's the best. I don't even know where you don't even know where you buy one trip. I take. I have to sure you got a suitcase, Honey, get suitcase, and the bone saw. So many times. Have the video of them getting out going into the embassy with the luggage, and the bone saw, and they go in there in there for about an hour. You know, just chatting it up packing luggage. Packing, I don't. I don't know, meet, maybe maybe meat of some sort. So they leave now with really heavy luggage, and they go right back to the airport, but the heavy luggage onto the airplane and fly away. Now at the same time that this is released and we have the footage of them doing this at the same time, the United States of America comes out and says, oh, by the way, we have a coded intercept that we got with the prince and the ambassador trying to lure him into the embassy. So the first thing that we know is our CIA or or somebody is releasing that, oh yeah, they were after him. That's not a good sign. Then today, Turkey comes out and I don't know if I believe this because Turkey is a bad player, but Turkey comes out and says, we have equipment in the Saudi embassy and we have on tape, apparently video and audio of him being questioned then tortured than horribly killed. Saudi, say, this is nuts. We're, we're out on every golf course with o. j. Simpson looking for this poor man, we don't know where he is. This is really important for several reasons. Saudi Arabia, supposedly an ally of ours. We are selling a Massimo of mass amount of arms about to be sold from us to Saudi Arabia should not go. And we are coming out kind of on the side of what appears to me, at least to be at this point the truth of, hey, this is the stuff we have. We're not taking a stand one way or another, but it does seem that we are willing to say, yes, yes, something weird going on. Now you tell the rest of the story, Jason, so wow, so much on Packer for one, but I'm bummed. I think that. I think it's very crazy, not crazy, but it's interesting. I mean, Trump was just in the Middle East and the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, not so long ago and supposedly asking them for a lot. And that's when he secured that. You know, over one hundred billion dollar deal that apparently, I think Jared Kushner helped like seal that deal. But that was when I don't want to call it reproach. But that's when right when before we started, we got rid of the Iran nuclear deal that was kind of are getting a little bit closer to them saying, sorry about the last eight years. We do care about you guys and we don't care about Iran. So that deal is still kind of like stuck out there. But it's really interesting that as we're trying to get close to them that our intelligence agencies are saying, yes, we're basically helping the Turkish narrative on this just very confusing. We're helping in a proxy war in Yemen was Saudi Arabia there? Yeah, and the rest of the of the, but by the way, the rest of the Gulf nations have backed Saudi Arabia, of course right now, but the rest of the Gulf nations are bitterly opposed to the Muslim Brotherhood bitterly, bitterly opposed. So the Muslim Brotherhood, they're all about political Islam, so they want to use them. They don't care. Don't give a crap about democracy. There is Llamas, there's a lot of and they wanna create a caliphates. Oh, okay. All right. Never heard. Okay. I've heard it from. No, but so there is Llamas, so they're very bad guys, but it just so happens to and this is something I didn't mention on Ray. We're talking about this radio, but I actually believe that the reason why we're our intelligence services are backing this little. Releasing this because I actually think that Khashoggi was US acid. At this point. He was living in the United States. He's got a history that goes back to the nineteen eighties nineteen nineties of actually being employed by the Saudis to make connections with Al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden. So this guy, he there's laundry, not if he knows all the dirty laundry between the kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the government and al-qaeda bin Laden. He knows it all and the Saudis know that. So when this when this journalist came to United States and became a resident was living here, they were like, oh my gosh, what is this guy saying? He's over there. So that's one thing. I actually think he was one of I think he was an asset of ours. I think we were using, which would we would not find out in the public at least at this point that something that we all know the Saudis were involved with nine eleven, right. Yeah. And also and this is where this is where I was hitting that before that the media for ever since two thousand two thousand eleven or whatever. They've basically gone all in on the Muslim Brotherhood like, oh yeah, they're great. They're not bad, they're, they're largely secular, largely sexy. They're all they're all about democracy. That's about spring is a good thing. Well, this guy Khashoggi he wanted to make a Muslim Brotherhood party in Saudi Arabia. He was one of the main opposition groups. I mean, they hated this guy. So basically he wanted to take the Saudi out of Saudi Arabia. Where is the story go? Where do we get the part of the story where he was good friends with the prince, and then it just kinda all went bad. I don't. I don't know where that even came from because he, unless unless the request equating how he was helpful to them back in the eighties and nineties when they were all trying to distance themselves from from Osama bin Laden and how they were trying to explore that, maybe that's what they mean. So here's the real problem with this story. We are once again in the position of this guy was probably a bad guy or press will not recognize him as a bad guy because they don't see the problem with the Muslim Brotherhood nor the caliphate, and so they won't recognize him as a bad guy. We may have had relationship with a bad guy who had kind of started to turn information over to us, which is always dicey, and we're now in the position of we're arming state and involved in a proxy war with a state that is not. Is is not in lockstep with any kind of human rights that we understand the estate. That's basically what the kingdom of a mafia state. But again, that's why everyone's been saying, this is great. You know the new crown prince, you know, he's doing all these liberal, you know, like progressive things. Women can drive now all the studies and take them into the next into into the next level. No, the only reason he's doing that things doing those things because he fears social unrest. So he's doing this thing for the appearance. But at the same time, people are disappearing in mass inside. Let me let me give you another perspective on that. He is a mafia state. He's a mafioso because that's the only way you can keep control while you change something like that. So we're stuck in the middle of going. All right. Here's a new Mobarak. Yes, he's got tortured prisoners. Prisons in these torturing people. But he's actually doing some good things and trying to keep the bad guys at bay, we don't want to lose him. So what do we do? We're right back to where we always are and the Saudi things interesting to you. Another story better than I do Jason, but like it's not just like flick opponents and journalists that are opposing them that they're getting beat up by this. I mean, the new prince basically gave a nice little house arrest to a bunch of the other billionaire prince. I mean, he actually was like, oh, no, there's held up in the four seasons and they were actually, they just put her hand. Prince, I'll Elaine. I don't even remember you must have gotten out lead. I know people l. we'd was instrumental in saving our banking system in two thousand eight instrumental ever said that on the air. And for as bad as he is. We went hat in hand. Allah, we'd and the conversation was very bizarre because he's a very bizarre guy, but we have relied on him before. Now where is he? He's supposedly lost a giant chunk of his fortune to to the kingdom. He's still pretty rich. I think I believe he used to back this up or or or challenge me on it. But I think he helped pull some strings at FOX. He was an investor in oxygen and he heaves not anymore, but he was he. He played a role in in the pressure that I had to back away from Israel. So weird about just the politics geopolitics Middle East, like who can be your ally, a mafia state that that slaughters journalists on foreign soil just because they have a different opinion you basically you have Iran, I mean, come on their basically ISIS, but in the nation states. Reside the nation state. You've got Turkey. That's again another thug mafia-type state, recused trouble. I mean, who do you really is the only country there's real. It's it. All right. Back in a minute. Linpac is coming line to talk about the right path forward and to make fun of the people standing in the way he might not be able to save the country, but at least we can all go down laughing, Glenn Beck line the addicted to outreach toured on tour this fall. Got more a lot more to get into, but one of our sponsor I target pro, I apparently I think that I might have one that's on the way and I'm super excited and try it out. Yes, for my I have a little three eighty at home just for Petit womb petite little me for home protection, how many three eighties you have to put into somebody to stop them. It's critically wounding ammo. Not like the movies where people fall back. I hope I never have to find out, but it does have a really, really long pole and I don't get to the range very often, you know. And so it's like every time that I do take it out. I'm like, it takes way longer than I think it's going to. HP. Now now have you heard of him? It'd be mom and pop gun. I'll know bring. No, I think it's a Smith and Wesson. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. So this is the best thing for you and you should. We're sitting here with the expert on this. You really should not carry a gun unless you are so comfortable with it because it most likely will be turned against you. You have to be so comfortable you have to have. It has to be part of you. And the only way to do that is go to the range all the time or just have it. And when you're watching TV or you're sitting there just squeeze the trigger squeeze that trigger squeeze that trigger for trigger control. I can't trust dry fire enough, especially guns like, here's the really long pool as if you're while you're doing that you're gonna pull it, and even even if you're just doing it without any any kind of like our target pro, you're going to be. You're not gonna know if you're pulling it with a cool thing about tiger pro is it's got that little round. You can stick it in like a regular round. It's got like a little laser pointer thing on there. So everytime you squeeze that trigger is pointing and shooting that laser right at the target, but it's not a laser pointers dot like you put a laser thing. You can't see the laser. It's just picking it up and and put. It on a on a on a paper if you will target on your phone. So you know exactly if you've hit the target sort of like top golf for guns. Yeah. That's a really good analogy. So you can save ten percent right now with promo code news just go to target pro dot com and use promo code news. I can't wait for mine still. Yes. We had a bit of a cultural flashpoint last year. If you remember with the National Football League where there was a kneeling controversy. I don't think I heard. Yeah. No, people talked about it only all the time. Really the most important thing in the world that a couple of people here and there were kneeling on football fields, and it turned into the thing where you remember Mike Pence flying in and leaving during the national anthem and Trump tweeting about it and capture Nick Yellen about and everybody's yelling on both sides and this the it was an interesting moment because everyone got very fired up about it. There's a lot of stories about how this is going to fix things, politically house, going to the NFL. The NFL is getting beaten up about it, you know? So it was interesting because he had those flashpoints and it's kind of faded away right ladies pretty much nobody kneeling anymore and the NFL Trump's not really tweeting about it anymore. Well, what actually happened now, it can go look back at all the numbers and see really what happened with the NFL ratings, and it's fascinating. I think at least got a couple of charts here for USA today. Did a great breakdown of this and what you see here are the this is broken down, not an overall ratings which were down a little bit, but we're readings by city and what you might notice here. First of all, the red, the red ones are the. The broken down Clinton and Trump red and blue, and you see this blue or up at the top and the reds are down kind of at the bottom which might make you believe that it kind of did have an effect. However, what you wind up finding out as you go through. This is really what happened was. It was a matter of whether the teams were good. If you look at the NFL last year, the New York Giants, terrible. The New York Jets were terrible. The Chicago Bears terrible. The San Francisco forty Niners were terrible. All the biggest markets had Houston was not very good either. If you look at increasing and decrease ratings will in the playoffs, all the ratings went up teams that are actually good teams that weren't good was about split and only in places where there were no teams at all. Did you see any actual drop off? And then finally, there's is red state territory possibly though. Look at this. This is the these are the ratings of how this went. This is in the middle of Pence's walking out Trump's calls for the firing of the players. What you see in the chart here. And of course, if you are listening on podcast, try to explain it as best. I can the light blue line that shows the two thousand sixteen ratings, and you see the two thousand sixteen ratings before the controversy falling almost identical rate as the others. You also will see that strong Trump regions performed better. The NFL ratings were better in Trump regions than they were tons strong Clinton and toss up regions throughout the first six weeks. What it seems to show is that basically it was a lot more about how the NFL played out last year a sport than it was about kneeling Neil and get a lot of people a lot of material, but it didn't seem to do much of anything to the right and you tell me does this is this reflected all with ESPN. ESPN has had ratings attrition. I think there is a legitimate argument to be made that ESPN is gone. At least overboard has gone really far. I mean, like Jim l. hill was more more most famous person. She's now at the Atlantic writing. God only knows what she's reading her first piece to actually came out today and it was about how. What white men don't understand when they're backing Cavanaugh and it was like, what's the opposite of white s- planning and man's splitting? Because I think what she's doing is explained to us what we're supposed to feel, isn't that what you're not supposed to do anymore? But yeah, I mean, I think it's fallen out clay. Travis has a new book is Fox Sports guy, and he's a new book out about, I think it's called like Republicans buy sneakers to and about how like the left has ruined sports for a lot of people. And I think that Israel, there's definitely contingency of people who just like, I don't wanna deal with any more. You're not letting me have fun in this world anymore. And that's why I go there. But I mean in reality, I think there's a, there's a, especially with ESPN is so much more commentary. The sport is still the sport, and it's still Americans still love their sports. They'll still go watch. There is a slight drop-off, I think every year from everything. One of the first indications that there wasn't. This story wasn't as big as everyone was saying was, there was a drop off in the ratings. From two thousand sixteen to two thousand seventeen, but it was a smaller drop. Then the ratings drop for the networks than just the network as a whole draft more than the NFL did. And that I think indicates there is a an attrition overall because people are going to other sources. There's a lot more choices. Now we are in the golden age of television read. All right. Now there's so many freaking good shows out there to a couple of. Most people don't know this, but up until Walt Disney died. Walt Disney was despised by the left. They hated while Disney Hollywood hated him because they said he was, he was, it was all trite. It was, you know. Jingoistic it was fantasy. They hated everything that he did. He never ever became political ever. He never let any of his. He was American, but he was never political and look at that brand up until they started getting political and having an agenda. It was always pure and it was a place he built that berm around Disneyland. And then he bought all that land from Disney World. When you go to DisneyWorld, you're off the main highway and on Disney property for miles before you hit the kingdom. And that's a parking lot. Then you go on and you have to go miles again. He did it for a reason separate from the world. Let me just be peace and have fun rolling and has gray is acting. Hey, it's Sarah Gonzalez. And if you like what you're hearing on this program, you should check out the Glenn Beck program. The podcast is available wherever you download your favorite podcasts. Want to make sure to remind everyone. We've got a brand new lineup, starting Monday, really excited about it. So Pat gray unleashed is going to be from seven to nine eastern. Then of course, Glenn Beck radio, and then Steve days from really listened to, if you don't know who he is, listen to the last hour of my radio broadcast today, on demand, he is, he's really wicked. Smart has very different perspective, and I think you learn a lot. Great. So make sure not to miss that next week and and overtime we're talking about cognac and Monday also have Monday. I also have another big announcement to make. Up next joy, bonus overtime content from the news white matters available exclusively for podcast listeners and blazed premium subscribers become a premium subscriber at the blaze dot com slash subscribe. We talked, I guess it was yesterday about Connie visiting the White House the way that he was treated. It's just well, I'm sorry. Okay. But I think that we, it's worth discussing how he's being treated in the media gotta short clip from CNN. I believe it was last night. Let's watch all jokes aside. I thought that was really sad. I think you had there a man who's clearly not okay and president who's willing to export that I think, and. Auspices of race relations. Black communities, joblessness mental health. All the things that ended up in this bucket of issues that were sort of addressed in this free for all. I don't know that any of them were very well served by this circus so you agree with totally fine with that analysis. Connie west was insane before we started liking Trump the whole world agreed in this except for hardcore leftists because they liked him because he said George Bush didn't care about black people. Now that he likes Trump, everyone on our side is making a out to be this genius. And it really does side says he's mentally insane. He's been mentally and saying the whole time just because he likes your guy, doesn't make him any lessons. I don't think he, here's, here's my take on a Connie west. He says a lot of stuff that are, it's just nuts, just nuts. But that's what you get for growing up and being a world where everyone says your genius, you'll say what Evers on the top of your mind and some of the stuff. I mean, if any of us said everything we were. Thinking at all times, we would all look nuts at some point or another. Okay. So he he goes out and he says this, he's always been praised. But yes, he's crazy on a few things. Okay. But what what they are using to say, look, he so mentally unstable, he's on rock solid. Constitutional principles he may not listen to me. He may not see this way bonkers. You hear what he said he was talking about gun violence and go. Wait. What he's saying is true, and I'm not even going to the specific issues I'm going to what he saying is the thing that got him in trouble is wait, just because I'm black. I can't have this point of view, and I don't know how much of his support is is just he end Donald Trump are both performers. Okay, they're both excuse this, but they're both media horse. They know how to work it and they know how to get their face in front of people. And so the two of them are just tag teaming each other like crazy and they both. No, this is good for our brand. They're both. The only thing I would agree with disagree with both exploiting each other and they both know that they're exploiting. Okay. So, but what he's saying is I have a right to wear the hat. I have a right to have this opinion, and it's not. At the crazy things that he said that make him crazy to these people. It's the fact that he's willing to wear the hat as a black man. He was saying that aides were caused by the government to kill black people left. Loveday Loveday left it. They loved. He was crazy then, and he's crazy now you're right. He says some things that are that are absolutely true, but that that's that's no, that's that high hurdle clear where human beings with brains we're supposed to be Asian, Lee, fallen some ground. That makes sense. I think I do like the bravery of them. I guess if I have to give him anything, I like the fact that he's willing to stand up and it's so rare that anyone pushes back against this. Like when someone's public I, I had Meyer him for that. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's brief. He's brisket has brand. Yeah. And I like that, right. I mean, there's something about that that I can see to be charming. Just like the idea that I'm supposed to stop my life to care about Anya west is doing is I'd rather just not have the life. I'd rather just go into coffin, v underground. We're on. You can't get to me. What about then? Let's say Kim Kardashian, his wife. I mean, she's trying to do some real work with prison reform yet. I think what nature I mean, even rela three, you compare -able Kim Kardashian is taken this issue seriously, and she is a relatively serious person in comparison to west. But I mean again, like whatever. I mean, she she came out and she's done this. I just don't. I don't know why I would care about any of these things. Right. Like if you care about prison reform, you should care about prison reform because prison forms rate issue, not because Kim Kardashian cares, I agree, but it's just bigger picture. I feel like if we have their celebrities and maybe we shouldn't care what they have to say. But if they are drawing attention to larger issues that need to be fixed and society, I feel like I'm okay with them doing. Conversation with him about some frisk. I don't care. I don't want to say I care about Kanye west and I don't care about Taylor swift. I don't care about any of them shut up. You're not. If if they're really, really, really. Not just saying who to vote for care about the issue and Tyler swiftly listed off a bunch of nonsensical points of issues that she thought were important in her little rant. I mean. Meet with the president to discuss the loop, but she would have if it was Brock baba. She and he brought up this celebrity every three days and what we do. We criticize Iraq Obama for using celebrities like I just feel like celebrities are actual people, and they get to say whatever the hell they want. And because they're famous, they get to go to the White House. Look, that's a, it's a great honor. I mean, I, I don't know what the guy who's at the end of the bar who says once in a while, some really smart things that are like, you know what? Bill. Make it a lot of sense. And then he goes on Grady rants. I don't want that guy going to talk to the president because occasionally he says, great things even like there's a separation grumpy today. I honestly thought like I honestly started looking up last night. How do I the word cognac from my feet? I just don't care. I want to hear about it at all. It's not important to me, but I think like there's two separate things here, and I think maybe this is the distinction where we're kind of going back and forth over which is like I fully understand and, and like, you know, can appreciate Kanye west, having this opportunity to talk to the president of the United States. It's it's a crazy world where that's possible camera in the media bothered. You understand where he is like I am like the media is focusing on on this. There's much more important things going on. This means literally nothing to us this these issues might be imprisoned talking about, and I just don't like the constant obsession with celebrity is why we have now celebrity. The president's right? Like Barack Obama. Maybe it was the first one. I mean Reagan was obviously celebrity, but I mean, like this era, Brock Obama was treated like he was a celebrity. He was worshipped. They put halos over his head and then we got a real celebrity as the next president. I don't think it's a healthy way to go and it's like this media and the way we talk about these issues are based on things like what is Konya think about it, and that is not a healthy impulse for society. So let me give you a little bit history. Who knows which president really kicked all this off. Calvin Coolidge. Unbelievable. Using the my work here. Yeah, it was Calvin Coolidge Calvin Coolidge one of the greatest presidents of the twentieth century came one president removed from Woodrow Wilson. Edward Bernez who was the father of modern advertising at the time. It wasn't called advertising what he did. It was called propaganda father of propaganda. When that got a bad name because of the Nazis, he changed it to father of advertising. He saw Coolidge saw the power of Bernez with Wilson and what he was doing, and he was known as silent. Cal had zero personality and Bernez came to and said, you need to have some fun and cows like or. And so invited celebrities movie stars at the time and other celebrities to dine with him at the White House. And then they would have journalists come in and they would write it didn't work out so well because Coolidge wouldn't say anything. He would just sit there didn't say anything to anybody. And so it was really, it was just made it more awkward, but he's the first president to really use this system and it was again, all for ratings and the right doesn't have a whole lot. I mean, it's it's, I don't know. I guess Hollywood's always been weaponized by the left. But I mean, we would do to the Hollywood was on our side. We would absolutely be weaponising. We're really the only side that has had presidents people actually get to the Oval Office who were celebrities major celebrity's that is actually crazy entering how much the left utilizes celebrities or the only ones that have successfully put them into the White House. That's kind of weird. That is weird. Steve corral? Yeah, off this Hollywood. But here's a reverse of Konya thing for me. It's not that I, I feel like Steve Croes are really thoughtful guy and guy who is kind of well known as having a good head on his shoulders and being very base for celebrity being very down to earth. And I thought like his, he had some comments. He did along profile piece. I can't remember where it was now that the top of my head, but it was a long profile piece for he's got three movies coming out all, like sort of artsy type of things. And that's kind of direction he's gone. And the office is one of the one of the great shows of all time in my opinion, and they have talked over the years of we bring it back. Do we do a special to a movie spin off? And like that toss goes been going on for a long time and he he addressed something I thought was interesting in this sort of period that we're in right now. He said it might be impossible to do that show today and have people accept it the way it was accepted ten years ago, the climate is different. I mean, the whole idea that character, Michael Scott. So much of it was predicated on inappropriate behavior. I mean, he's clearly not a model boss. A lot of what is depicted on that show is completely wrong minded. That's the point, but I just don't know how that would fly. Now. There's a very high awareness of offensive things today, which is good for sure. But the same time when you take a character like that too, literally, it doesn't really work and Glenn. We, it took this in different ways than we initially read. I took that as Corrales very light-handed criticism over like where we've gone like we can't take jokes anymore and we can't accept the point of that was not to say that it's great to be sexist, which Steve Carell was very often on that show. It was that it was wrong to be sexist, and it was, you know, it's ridiculous. Look how ridiculous. Let's mock the person who acts that way and the fact that we can't even even if they agree with the message, we can no longer even make the jokes to make those points. I mean, it's always sunny in Philadelphia's dealing with some of that right now. A lot of these shows are where it used to be a way to fuse diffuse it and make it more obvious to people how dumb it was to act that way. And now he's saying he doesn't show basically could get made. I think. I think it could get made, but it would have to heavy of virtue signaling in it. Yeah, it would have to have a right and wrong message in it. How did you take that Glen? I took it. I want to take away. Stewed takes it. But I am little cynical here and I took it as at best a weak attempt to say, maybe we shouldn't do this. I took it much more as, hey, you know, it's all good. It's all good. We're not doing those things you more, and that's all good. Don't get me wrong. That's all good. All right. No, no, it's not Steve. You know, it's not that those shows should be made. And I contend a really well written well produced. Well acted comedy show that even goes further than that and is just totally politically incorrect would be a monster. It would be an absolute in ratings a month's ter- political correctness, destroying our culture. We fun country funny country. You see what you see what all of her Darsur say. All over Darcy, a guy who who worked here. He worked for years and I respect all over Darcy and I stood up for all Darcy against pig man. Jones. I like in respect him. I really do he. He is. We just hired somebody new at the blaze who is doing our Twitter feed. She's very funny. She's very funny as you all know. Do I ever you picked the content of the show? Right? You pick your content? Correct. You pick the content? I don't. I don't care. I hire smart people and leave them alone too busy to be micromanaging every on. And and Oliver was an editor here. He knows and he and I fought for him several times, said back off to everybody else. That's his opinion. He writes it back off so he knows better. And he's, he tweeted something today since when did Glenn Beck's the blaze go all Maga. Okay. Well, first of all, we're not. We just also hired Steve dais this week who is not America. Great. Again. We hire of variety of and in particular we hired somebody who has a sense of humor, all of the tweets that he put out. We're all jokes. They were memes and they were all jokes. Come on guys. Can we relax just a little bit? Can't we laugh? Apparently not. Apparently. Not think that goes into the poll about new study reveals how popular unpopular PC culture is this blew my mind. So the Atlantic wrote about it on Wednesday again, who wrote it the Atlantic, wrote about it the land? Yeah. So the Atlantic wrote about it and I, I was reading through this and then I like I, they were kind of aggregating just kind of going off. Then I read the actual study and I just could not believe. So if you think about political correctness nowadays, like we just said, it's destroying our culture. It's changed how we talk. It's changed. The types of shows that we watch, it's changed everything. Well, their study showed that a vast majority of the country, vast majority does not agree with political correctness, in fact, minorities, disagree with it the most. That's what's and that is very eye opening because eighty percent range. And that's why. People that agree with a PC. They say it's to protect minorities pretty much, but the minorities don't agree with it. They're saying this is actually a clear and present danger to our country. The other thing that was fascinating in that in that article and I was waiting for the other shoe to drop all the way through it. I'm like, okay. Okay. Okay. Never dropped. Only eight percent identify themselves as that progressive warrior. That is all for. Jochen Justice and everything, eight percent. Now they did say, so it's the extremes on the end because the other end conservatives those are dire conservatives. They're like, what was it? Twenty nine percent. One of these numbers is bigger than the other. However, it's everyone else. It's everyone else. Even conservatives are saying, I'm sick to death of this, then everyone up to ninety two percent. It's the eight percent, which I believe a lot of them are in media, maybe almost between the colleges and the media that may be the entire eight percent, but that it's only eight percent and their steering us. Hell is wrong with us another such a minority. I cannot. I don't know how they pull this off. It's such a small amount of people have been able to pull this off read. I've read that that was a rhetorical question, but this it's not surprised at all that ninety seven percent. -servative are like, yes, politically clerk, political correctness is awful, but I also thought it was crazy that sixty one percent of Democrats agree with us on that sixty one percent. So the majority disagree with flu variants, but that's not what you would think if you're just listening to the. No, we had an interesting conversation with dais today because he, he really explained Donald Trump really well Trump's, not the problem. He's also not to save here. He's a reflection of us and he is smart enough to go. What is the guys? What is the majority of people's? What are they saying? They're saying they're sick of political correctness, so he just put that rogue on. You know what I mean? Also in talking with Pat and Stu and Steve this morning, it's why we have to start maybe using the language and say the left instead of instead of the Democrats. And I. Democrats differently than the left. If you are saying the left is going too far, even Democrats can agree with that. But if you say the Democrats are going too far the democrat that disagrees with these, go, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I think it's important to know where some of these terms and words come from. So political correctness, really kind of really took took stride. Like in the progress progresses, we're getting crazy cultural marxists around like the sixties seventies and that era, the new left, the birth of that when real really came out, but does. Okay. So you'll get to get me back anyone know where the actual term pool correctness came from its contested, but it is a claim to becoming from China and Russia, but I believe Russia Soviet Union. So nineteen look at you guys. So from what I've looked into it, the late nineteen twenties. So it was basically it was a term that the the communist party used to say, like, if any of the any of the people that live in the country or people that are actually in the polo bureau or in the government if they ever expressed views that were outside the party line. So let's say they were reading a book about Adam Smith, or let's say they were like, wait a minute. If we privatize the steel industry instead of just having that, maybe it will do better, maybe competition. Well, all of a sudden became politically incorrect now. Sure. The facts might know tend to go towards your theory so that maybe doesn't actually correct, but still politically incorrect exactly taken. And you were you were put in a camp where you were killed until you became politically correct when you really look at it that way, it's terrifying, terrifying theory that you got a show and also to history lesson. You're welcome. Today's poll, are you watching the NFL this year despite the kneeling controversy? Let us the blazes Twitter and tell the truth. Yes. Well, so hit the pole, yes or no, but also tell us in the comments. What your answer was in who your team is. That would be an interesting theory to test that theory and see if the numbers match up. Don't forget the new lineup. Again, it is Pat gray from seven to nine eastern Glenn Beck radio, of course, normal time. And then the Steve day dais show from twelve to two eastern. It's going to be awesome. We can't wait on Monday on radio. Another announcement. You're gonna like another not. He hasn't even told us what it was. I asked him over the break and he was like, I'm not telling retroactively re announce Steve Jason pepper. Oh my God. Cowboys. I don't like what you're hearing become a blazed premium subscriber and watch the show anytime anywhere live or on demand, go to the beliefs dot com slash subscribe start watching today.

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