17 Episode results for "Sarah Josefa"
Short Stuff: Mary Had A Little Lamb
"Hey welcome to short stuff I'm Josh. There's Chuck Mrs Short stuff we're talking about hill nursery rhyme pretty door in its nature that you may have heard of before. It's called Mary had a little lamb. Wait a minute was. Was this lamb's fleece as white as snow it was, and there was something remarkable about it in that wherever Mary wet, the lamb went as well. It sounds like a stocker to me a little bit so this is pretty interesting in that. This is controversial I mean this cute little nursery rhyme, that every English speaking kid on the planet has heard at one time or another, especially if you were raised in America. may have had number one A. Real life origin in number two. There are two towns in Massachusetts and New Hampshire, where the local historical societies will fight each other with bike chains and brass knuckles if they run into one another in public. Yeah. This is really interesting in Sterling Massachusetts If you go, you're going to see A. A little copper statue of a little lamb, and it's Mary Sawyer's little lamb specifically, which she brought to school in Eighteen fifteen. Yeah, She was a little girl who? In this I guess we should say allegedly for all this stuff because they're. Saying that each other is wrong, so allegedly Mary. Save this little lamb nursed back to health overnight, and over a few days the lamb got much better, and then she was going to go to school one day and her brother Nat said. who want you bring that lamb to school? Since you love it so much much married? And she did bring the lamb to school hiding it in a basket under her chair, and at one point, she stands up. To Take Part in a recitation lesson and the lamb bleeds. The teacher laughs. She takes the lamb outside and kills it no. She takes a lamb, outside and stores it in the shed, but this caught the idea of a guy named or the eye of a guy named John Rolston. Yeah, he was a an older boy who I guess was visiting the schoolhouse where all this took place that day us on his way off to Harvard. And he died shortly after of tuberculosis, but before that he wrote a poem through several lines this basically what everybody? Everybody knows from Mary had a little lamb supposedly that night he was so taken by this thing by this event came back the next day on horseback and handed Mary the little poem he wrote for her and Mary Sawyer went on for the rest of her life as Mary the girl with the little lamb that she'd nursed back to health and these the source of the famous nursery rhyme Mary had a little lamb. Yet and it's important to note that he wrote a but three stanzas of that poem and I think he was just thought it was cute. I think it's an adorable story that not only did she nurse little lamb, and take it to school, but this you know rising freshmen at Harvard was so smitten with this whole thing on his little visit to the school that he wrote a poem about it and. Then, he died of tuberculosis later than. That again. So He he so John Ralston and Mary. Sawyer are the source of the inspiration, and the the basis of that nursery rhyme Mary had a little lamb as far as sterling. Massachusetts is concerned, but if you drive a little further north about ninety miles north in New Hampshire south-west New Hampshire, you come across the town of Newport You get a totally different story that their their position is basically that. That Mary Sawyer was allying Old Lady, who lied her whole life and made up this fantastic tale, and that it was really Sarah Josefa Hale who was a native of Newport New Hampshire who was very famous for setting up the first Thanksgiving in the United States like as as as a national holiday. She's the one that made that happen. that she's the one who wrote Mary had a little lamb. Right and I think we should take a break. Okay, and before we do I WANNA point out. The Josh did not Miss Speak. Her Middle Name was Josefa and not Joseph or Josephine. Yeah it just sounded a little funny and people might think. Why did Josh Spice that one up? A little mustard on it, so we'll come back and explain more about her story where Henry Ford figures in right after this. Getting your tax return filed should be great especially if you're getting a refund, but identity thieves want what's yours so during tax season? Your Info may be exposed. 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He also sang some Weird Patriotic Song about the Eagle flying high around the same time he got some bad press. Everybody was while you're conquers buddy. Oh, man, I miss that guy. He was fun for the News Cycle. He really was. all right so Sarah Josefa. Moved to Boston in Eighteen, twenty eight, she was a poet and a writer. And she was actually the editor of the very first women's magazine in the US called. Gaudi's ladies book. And it was here in Boston, that she met a man named Lowell Mason, who was a musician and composer? Who Said you know what? If, we get some of these poems and set them to music. They would be called songs, and we can use these in schools to make a little kids. Good moral kids when I think of lull this. kind of folk musician children's music study proponent guy. Have you ever seen that Mister, show where David Cross is like the guy who sculpted the little, the little body that he moves from Appalachian Folk Art. That guy that's who I think of when I think this guy, you know Kinda, weird and hapless in out of it and all like his whole focus is learning to to to get music into schools for children and. I. Don't know why, but it's really stuck in there. You know or buddy. Scott Ackerman wrote for Mister show. And it was kind of his entree into the entertainment industry and he does eight. Yeah, he does a spot on impression of Bob Odenkirk. Oh Yeah Oh it's great. That it's very funny. All right, so mason inhale are writing. Songs together. They fifteen poems to music called poems for our children. And we should point out that the original tune that they wrote for her version of Mary. had a little lamb was not the familiar melody that we know that came on later I think yeah, apparently that comes from a British song that goes merrily. We roll along roll along roll along merrily. We roll along over the Dark Blue Sea. Nice Oh. Thank you. I've practiced pretty extensively for on key. I'm tone deaf. This little pitchy, but it was fine, okay. I'll go with. It was fine. Knows good, but yeah. That came on later the original melody. We know that, do we? Know but if you can get your hands on Juvenile Liar Lear Oyi Ari the book that it was originally in I think the notes are in there. Okay, it sounds like in a Gaza Davita. To! So Mary Sawyer going back to her the little girl who? Allegedly actually nurse, this little lamb who followed her around and stalked her. She said you know what those first three verses of your poem Ms. Hale is exactly like the ones that John. Rolston wrote about my true story. What is up with that yet? I guess she just thought that. Somehow Sarah Josefa Hail. Had Gotten her hands. Somehow on this, this poem that John Rolston had written for in just expanded on that inserted Josefa Hale was like no. That's not it at all I made this whole thing up from scratch using strictly my imagination I've never heard of you or your delightful little story from your childhood about the lamb. Sounds totally made up by the way right, and so this was like so now you had to upstanding women Sarah just for hail, the founder of the Steve American holiday Thanksgiving And Mary Sawyer who went on to become the matron of her local hospital. Were basically saying that one another was lying without saying that one another was lying and to towns like reputations were on the line. Yeah, and they they actually as older ladies signed sworn statements, saying that what they were saying was true and correct. And it kind of went on like this for a little while, and I promised Henry Ford. And here we're going to deliver because in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty seven. automobile magnate Henry Ford got involved and was firmly in the Mary Sawyer camp firmly. He was just a fan of hers I guess because he bought the original frame from that red schoolhouse in moved it to Sudbury where he owned a an in. And he wrote a book about this called the story of Mary and her little lamb. I find that him. Moving into sub confuses the story tremendously, because it just takes too small towns and adds a third one on necessarily, if yes. Sure you know, but yes. Sir Henry Ford Road Sixty page book, just basically touting Mary Sawyer story much to the Chagrin of the town of Newport New Hampshire in its historical society into this day they will say like Henry Ford made a great car I don't know how he would be really as an historian, so you know his opinion doesn't count for much. What I want to know is what was on the other fifty six pages. You, know, yeah Couldn't taken more than four to tell this little story. No I know I. Don't know what he he talked about I. Think my my joke. Bone is broken because I can't come up with anything stupid. Well! It depends on the. There are very much to camps here into this day. People that defend hail. I mean people that defense lawyers are like you know. This is sweet, sweet girl who had the sweet story? Why would she make this up until it? Her whole life right inhale. Defenders were like well. Why would she just conjure up this poem out of thin air or I mean? Why would she copy it and claim? She conjured up from thin air because like she wouldn't have even known about this poem. Yes, she just from what I can tell she doesn't seem like. Like the type who would of committed plagiarism and then stuck to the Lai, her entire life yeah, a mystery mystery, and even Henry Ford couldn't solve it, but to end this one because we don't really have a resolution to it. There is like the the full poem by Sir. Joseph Hale ends pretty acutely because she's talking about how everyone wanted to know why. The lamb loved Mary so much and in the pullman says well. It's because Mary loves the LAMB BACK. And then it ends with an you. Each gentle animal in confidence may bind and make them follow at your will. If only you are kind in that sweet thing to teach little kids be kind to animals, and you can basically be the boss of them. Yes, and you will never be serial killer. That's right because you're kind of them rather than torture. Tried let's it for short stuff, everybody. We're at. Stuff you should know is production of iheartradio's. How stuff works for more podcasts. My heart radio visit the iheartradio APP, apple, podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Faith Adjacent: Thanksgiving
"Talk about backup to make a brigadier. Hello and welcome to faith adjacent a spin off of the bible bench podcast where we send up our faith antenna to see if we can get reception in unlikely places. I'm your host. Aaron moon resident bible scholar on the bible edge. And this month pull up h hair and settle into a trip to fan fever dream as we unpacked the faith adjacency of the thanksgiving meal and as always a disclaimer. Before we begin faith is a very personal. Everyone brings their own set of lenses and perspectives to anything may encounter in the world and that includes scripture religion faith. whatever. I always welcome jewelry. Bucs additional thoughts as well as attention to blind spots. I may not have considered. This is a conversation. If we're doing spiritual archaeology here. I want us to dig together. So without further ado. Let's jump into the topic for this month. The thanksgiving meal you know a couple of weeks ago. Someone jokingly accused me of giving all of my just favourite things the faith adjacent treatment and that is an accusation. That i am guilty of. I love thanksgiving. I love the food. I love the transition into christmas. I am normally a thanksgiving compartmentalize. Her i don't like to to besmirch christmas or thanksgiving by the marriage of the two however this year. I think it's different. Like i want to take my soaker of thanksgiving and my super soaker of christmas. And i to just both barrels straight into the heart of twenty twenty. Just kill it. With turkey's and pilgrim hats and place mats that my children make and advent calendars and pumpkin pie and christmas ham and just general joy of the holiday season. So normally. i wouldn't do that but this year. i didn't. i didn't want this month to go by without a proper faith adjacent salute to what i consider to be the best meal of the year. So what is thanksgiving and listen. I'm coming at this from an american perspective. Not all countries celebrate thanksgiving not all countries celebrated. We celebrated here. But a lot of places have some sort of celebratory gratitude holiday whether that is attached to religion or not thanksgiving itself here in the states is actually deeply rooted in religious context. And we'll talk about that. But the food of an american thanksgiving meal is like the lynch pin. And i know so many of you feel this way as well but i have my own personal thanksgiving bylaws right like things that are deeply important to me about this holiday specifically this meal so i think we're going to do like a like social graphic on the bible binge instagram so i want you to share your personal thanksgiving bylaws but here mine the first one dark meat only don't want your dry white meat get it out get it off my plate gravy cannot save it. I do not want it second. Bylaw dressing is favored. Stuffing is forsaken. We don't eat something that was cooked inside of something else. That's not of the lord. My third one is you can experiment as long as you make the original version. So if i wanna put adobo sauce and chipotle peppers in my dressing that's fine. I can do that as long as i bring the traditional version that my family loves. That's all i ask of you that we just if we experiment we also keep it. Oh gee so. Those are mine. I want to see yours so go to our instagram. Make sure you tag me and the bible bench so that i can see how intense you are. Because that's my favorite thing all right. So let's get into our first section. The spiritual dakota ring when art or culture is not obviously religious. We need to use a faith-based lens by which to view it extracting inherent theology faith from an otherwise secular tax if we place our spiritual decoder ring on the traditional thanksgiving meal. What do we see and other words. How is the food. We eat at thanksgiving faith adjacent. So the first thing we're going to do is get a brief overview of the traditional story of the first thanksgiving meal and listen. Do not fret. we are also going to fact. Check this throughout the episode because what we were taught in school is not exactly what happened. I know that shocking What mary had a little lamb has to do with thanksgiving. And how jesus might have viewed this holiday. So let's jump. In a brief overview of thanksgiving the traditional thanksgiving narrative. Here in america is this. the pilgrims left england to escape religious persecution. They landed at plymouth massachusetts and started a colony. The winter was hard and food was scarce and half of them died but thankfully a benevolent native american. Who just happened to speak. English taught them planting and harvesting and hunting and they had their first harvest. They wanted to celebrate so they invited the friendly native americans to their table. They all sat down to a beautiful harvest. Meal complete with cornucopia 's and buckles on their shoes and we all lived happily ever after. That's the traditional story. But there's also this narrative underneath that of the meal. The meal is the point of thanksgiving as it's the centerpiece of the traditional narrative. Right so sharing a table with someone whether it is your uncle. Bobo who you don't agree with politically or a native american that you don't even speak the same languages they do. Because you're a pilgrim It's a sign of friendship and unity and breaking bread with a person invokes spirit of love and fellowship when you eat from the same green bean casserole dish or your plate of eels as was what happened in the first thanksgiving you are saying to some extent whatever issues we have with each other. Whatever disagreements i can either put those aside for the sake of the shared meal or this is a safe place for us to share our differences. And as cornball that is what we're doing when we sit down at a table in this way so if the food is the linchpin than everything revolves around it so how did we get here well and again. We're gonna talk in greater detail about the native american mythology surrounding thanksgiving but the best text. We have from that first. Meal is a journal. From william bradford. Who was one of the pilgrims as well as the on again off. Again governor of plymouth colony an important thing to remember about the pilgrims is that they were deeply religious. They had been persecuted against and those spiritual beliefs amd persecutions colored everything. They did fun fact. The colony was actually the second attempt for the pilgrims to escape religious persecution. They had first attempted a colony in the netherlands. So it's very easy to understand how thanksgiving or a harvest festival and the meal. That these people shared could be construed as faith. Jason and it was never called thanksgiving when they did it. It was just a harvest celebration. Which was something that people had been doing for a really long time. A few years later in the middle of the summer they held something called a thanksgiving the pilgrims dead but it was a day of prayer and fasting. Had nothing to do with eating a meal But what was the meal right. Well what did they eat. Lot of pigeons lot of ills which does not sound great lobster clams mussels Some venison there may have been turkeys. There may not have been turkeys. We don't really know There are no pies fun fact. Even though pies were an extremely popular way to eat food during this time pilgrims had no butter or wheat for flower to pull off the kind of intense pie. Buffet situation that we have so often now. They didn't even have an oven yet. When they celebrated the first thanksgiving there were no potatoes so it was just a lot of ills basically maybe some venison. It was a carnivores delight. They had the meat sweats when they were finished. So how did we get to the traditional meal that we eat now pretty much. We have one woman to thank her name. Is sarah joseph a hail. Now you can think of sarah joseph. A hail as a kind of martha stewart meets. Kelly hampton meets oprah. She was the slyke firecracker who got stuff done. She raised all this money for memorials and she was the editor of a magazine called the goldies. Ladies book fun fact. In addition to being an extremely pro thanksgiving activists Sarah josefa hale is also the poet behind the lyrics to. Mary had a little lamb. Just a little fun fact. There she was really the first person to suggest turkey at thanksgiving as a staple she had heard about. William bradford the former governor of plymouth colony one of the pilgrim's. She had heard about a journal that he had but it had actually gone missing in fact. This is actually a weird story. So i'm gonna tell it. The final manuscript bradford's journal was left in the tower of a building called the old south in boston during the revolutionary war It was a church. That was the meeting place for rebels. And where the boston tea party. Participants met before they dumped all the tea in the harbor. So british troops actually the building during the war and one of them took the manuscript so it went missing for like a hundred years. Then it suddenly turned up in the bishop's palace in england and there was this huge fight about whether it was an artifact of the church of england or an artifact of the united states the final ruling was that the church could have a photographic copy and the original returned to the governor of massachusetts where it stays in a museum. Sarah josefa hale. She kind of helped to rediscover this journal. She is probably the person responsible for making thanksgiving a national holiday as she started a letter. Writing campaign to five presidents over seventeen years trying to persuade them to pass legislation that would establish it as official abraham. Lincoln finally listened to her because she pitched it as like. Hey the countries in the midst of this. I don't know if you're aware. This abraham lincoln but the country is in the middle of a civil war and what would be what would be the best way to bring the country back together if we sat around and had together so lincoln. Listen to her and in eighteen sixty three. We had an official thanksgiving holiday. Thank you sir. Joseph a hail mother of thanksgiving writer of classic nursery rhymes. Before lincoln official presidents like george washington and john. Adams were like yeah. We're going to have this day of thanksgiving this national day of thanksgiving. But it's not an official holiday that we're gonna like really set in stone. So abraham lincoln did that. Because of sarah joseph a hail the impetus for her doing that was the civil war and bringing people back together with their families which is really beautiful. I think how is it faith adjacent. you know. I think anytime you're giving. Thanks who who are you giving. Thanks to like the most interesting observation to me about thanksgiving as a religious holiday is that thomas jefferson didn't want to celebrate it so like i george washington and john adams were super into thanksgiving but jefferson was like celebrate. Thanksgiving if i make thanksgiving a national holiday that is going to put us at odds with the separation of church and state and this is like part of the reason why jefferson gets this reputation for being godless is because he didn't celebrate thanksgiving so it was intrinsically bound up in religion back in the beginnings of america. Canadian thanksgiving is sometimes called the action. And grace which for you non french speakers. That just means the action of grace. I obviously speak french. So that's why. I know that and you might not and i love the idea of thanksgiving as an action. Not just like a buzzword or something that we think about or meditate on but something that we do. It's an act. It's an exercise. We're physically being grateful. Where physically extending grace i. I think i'm going to start calling american thanksgiving that i think there's this connection of i want to show gratitude for something and also i want something to rail against when i'm not in a gratitude minded place some accents like i think it's part of the push pull that we have with god not only the push and pull but the relationship that we have and i don't think things like anger or grief separate from gratitude. I think we can hold both of those things together in that relationship with god. It means you're part of the community whether that's you with god you with your family you with your friends. The action of grace is about receiving and giving grace around a table in community. I just well done canadians. One of the first iteration of thanksgiving in canada with it was a french. Colony is called the feast of the order of good cheer. So their whole deal was that so. Many of the french explorers and their native companions were dying from mysterious illnesses. Which is what happens when you have never when you when you mix different immune systems so to stave off like depression and illness and coal hunt and fish and they would have all this food huge dinners big fees all in thankfulness for life and health. Fun fact one of the big meals prepared for the feast of the order of good cheer with something called l- l day which is muscles cooked under pine needles which i think still sounds better than staffing you know like we see a lot of meals happening in scripture. You've got the last supper meals with martha and mary and lazarus the feeding of the five thousand. The bible concludes with the marriage. Supper of the lamb and meals often turn out to be a place where we have connection with others food spiritual especially when it's couched in the practice of gratitude. These meals are an exercise of hope and fellowship. And i think it's interesting to note that meals in biblical times were seriously segregated. They expressed social order nido normally meals in the sixteen. Hundreds were also very racially and divided. We are drawn to this first thanksgiving story because it appeals to our best. Nature's this is what it's supposed to look like you know. And jesus didn't really adhere to that social norm. He frequently would eat with people who were not in his social circle who were deviance outside of his social circle who had no business people thought being in his social circle and that is how he kind of made connections with people and so meals in general and especially a meal kind of based around gratitude. I think is a wonderful connection point for us to see where it might be. Faith that jason. Hey guys a quick talk about one of our sponsors crew. It goes without saying that the bible has changed all of our lives. I mean we named our podcast. The bible bench for a reason and i wish you could see how many bottles we use for our studies but imagine i second that you couldn't get a bible that you couldn't hop on amazon and get one sent to your house or even afford one take it one step further. Imagine that you aren't even allowed to have one h-honestly sometimes we forget that there are people lots of people all around the world who simply can't get a bible. That's why we're thrilled to partner with crew. Our friends at crew are distributing free. Bibles around the world to people who can't get them it's their mission to give bibles to anyone who wants one. But here's where they need your help for only twenty one dollars a month you can provide three people with bibles each and every month and because crew is so awesome. They'll also send you a fearfully wonderfully weird bobble bench tote for your donation that's right you get a fearfully and wonderfully weird bobble bench tote in exchange for joining at twenty one dollars a month go to give dot crewe dot org slash the bottle bench to help today. That website again is give dot crewe dot org slash the bible veg. Thanks so much and now back to the show. so let's move into our second section. The red thread board. We're going to get intense and weird and see where we might go deeper into the strange world of thanksgiving food so here in the section. We're going to take a look at three red threads. I the centerpiece of the traditional thanksgiving meal. Second the wild and insane story of one of the native americans who helped the pilgrim survived their first year and green bean casserole as ebony stone. So let's get this thread. Let's talk about turkey's Benjamin franklin like loved him some turkeys. He's freaking love them. I do want to give a fun. Fact here about how much benjamin franklin hated. The bald eagle He said it was a bird of bad morals that steal stuff and it's a big baby. There's this legend that benjamin franklin actually wanted the turkey on the great seal of the united states of america. It's actually a meth. Unfortunately he stated in a letter to his daughter that he was glad that the bird on the seal looked more like a turkey than eagle because he said a turkey is respectable bird. It's from america and though it's a little vain and silly it is a bird of courage who would not be afraid to start dust up with the british. He didn't actually wanted on the seal. But that's actually a really good argument. And i kind of want the turkey on sale now. The founding fathers were also huge fans of the turkey which is so weird yet beautifully. Specific turkeys were again. Weren't really a mainstay of the thanksgiving meal. Until until around the eighteen sixties even though faith jason alum alexander hamilton said that no citizen of the united states should refrain from turkey on thanksgiving day. We don't really know if they ate turkey on the first thanksgiving liam bradford talked about how the there were turkeys but he doesn't specifically mention them in the meal. Besides looking like the up and up version of a peacock turkeys are behaviorally fascinating. They are social creatures. They get depressed when they are isolated and just thinking about how crazy it is that this the bird that like loves being in a group and loves being around people and will start to take on the attributes of other turkeys that it loves and also engages in comfort. Behaviours is a thing that we eat at this particular holiday. I just thought that was really beautiful. Fun fact one of the comfort behaviours that turkey's engaging is the dust bath which is just they roll around in the dust. And i just love that. They're like it's like self care. Get your turkey. dust bath. I love that. I'm actually gonna put lincoln the show nuts to a video because it looks like they've given up but really they're just loving themselves and i love it. They are behaviorally fascinating. And this is the section where we get weird. So i'm gonna get weird about this. And the fact that we consume this particular bird on this particular holiday i think is so symbolic of our deep desire to live in community with each other to be comforted by the presence of one another. I think i think it's i think it's nuts. The this is the bird we eat for thanksgiving and that brings us to our next threat. The people that we surround ourselves with on thanksgiving the most famous of this at the first thanksgiving was a guy named squad. Now all heard about scotto in our thanksgiving coloring sheets. A benign and helpful native american. Who graciously helped. The pilgrim survived during the first years of life in new england. You've seen the paintings. You've read the children's books but s- cuanto wasn't just a nice native american who helped the pilgrim survive. We actually don't know his real name. He was actually called to quantum. It was probably not the name he received it birth. And we're going to get to that. He kinda i burst onto the early american consciousness when he was kidnapped by a guy. Thomas hunt who was a real a real jerk And one of john smith of pocahontas fame's right hand men so he was kidnapped. Squander quanta was probably a nickname purchase. Quantum and again. That wasn't his birth name. We don't know what his birth name was. But at some point between his kidnapping in his introduction to the pilgrims he took the name of quantum s- quantum is not an actual name. But an idea fun fact. The pilgrims did this as well naming many of their children. Things like fear. Love remember resolved also wrestling. One of their children's names was wrestling. The reason to quantum's name is important. Here is because it refers to the idea of rage. Now let me be very clear here. I am super white when my kids have to dress up with a nod to their ancestry for like international day at school. They wear doctor. Who shirts and french berets. So like i am very white. And i am coming to this from an extremely white perspective. So all i'm trying to do here is something that i've only learned about secondhand right third hand fourth hand to s- quantum refers to rage specifically rage of manitou. Which is again limiting described by myself as a kind of spiritual omnipotent lifeforce. We might might make a crude parallel with manitou and the holy spirit but managed includes thing does the holy spirit does not inhabit for example like the holy spirit lives and believers manatee shows up an animal's events. Also people it can be positive negative or neutral. The reason this is important is because if this quantum is kidnapped he goes to spain. Thomas hunts purpose was to sell him and his friends into slavery. The sale is stopped by some spanish. Friars who then their records say that. They converted to s- quantum to christianity. It's probably not what happened. He probably just said he converted to christianity because he was essentially imprisoned and trying to get back home and he did it as a means to survival at some point between that and his return home eventually he takes the name to s- quantum which essentially means the wrath of god. I think if you wanna get really english major about it you could see this parallel between him coming to help them. The pilgrims and their spiritual descendants essentially destroying native culture. And how that is going to eventually come back to us. What happened to the natives. Post pilgrims is one of the original sense of our country. And so i think it's hauntingly poetic that the man who was sort of this bridge between the first colonists and the natives his name was the wrath of god. I think we'd be wise to pay attention to that. He eventually makes his way to england and then books passage to return to new england and his home when he gets there he is completely shocked to discover his entire community has been destroyed by a virus. Not fun fact. They described it as an above ground graveyard. Some sort of virus had come along and completely decimated he was now the only surviving member of his pawtuxet village. To s- quantum is captured again. This time by tribe and he ends up as a liaison because he can speak english. Between massa soit who is the say chatham of the wilma pogue tribe confederation and the pilgrims and he so he ends up living with the pilgrims managing negotiations of treaties with other tribes and communities as well as teaching them to plant farm before that many written journal records from the pilgrims describe the starving time but now that squash him with them william bradford claims that the lord was with them and all their ways and blessed to them in their outgoings and incomings this was really the attitude of the pilgrims when they had what they considered a win whether it was to s- quantum assisting in their harvests or a virus literally killing villages of native americans at once and allowing them to live in those villages. They assumed it was god. I that's why i find it so interesting. The quantum having an education in christianity chose his name as squash him. I can't read the guy who taught the pilgrims how to plant and harvest having a name that means the wrath of god and not just like really delve into that like a big goal english major so just quantum like i said was the liaison between the pilgrims and the natives as captain of mass. Wait quick sidebar. On the politics of early new england natives so masses wait was h him of the warmer poke coalition which was a loose confederation of tribes around massachusetts at the time the wanna pug were decimated in the same way to quantum's tribe not total decimation but they were weakened by the epidemic ratted his tribe so the woman were constantly fighting the narragansett another tribe further down the coast and so to fortify their ranks the pilgrims and the poke made this alliance. They made this alliance in order to ensure their own survival but a lot of the wa pogue leaders did not agree with mass. Oats choice to do this. So there's this legend within this whole story about a shipwrecked frenchman who was taken captive by the woma pogue. And he put a curse on them before he died and he said god was angry with the wanna poke for their wickedness and he would destroy them and he would give their country to another people. If you're massive soit and are trying to protect your people from the narragansett. The pilgrims weren't a great option for an alliance except for the fact that they had guns. The only reason dot nasa chose to align with the pilgrims is because of their guns because he knew that he could overpower them. So to s- quantum and his friend sat encouraged to befriend the colonists which semi sat did as the first american indian to make contact with the pilgrims fun fact when he entered their colony. Everyone freaked out because he like came in with a lot of confidence until he broke the tension by speaking english because he had also been captured and asking for a beer. They were out of beer but they did give him a biscuit. Which i think is just as nice so again you're seeing this like the tie between food and fellowship. It's not even just when we sit down at a meal. it's it's more about. We're gonna break bread together. I'm gonna offer you food the salt and the bread. It's it's all a part of that alliance friendship unity between one another. The reason is quantum is important here is because he is the literal bridge between life and death for the colonists weren't farmers they weren't hunters. They were completely unprepared for this kind of trial. He enabled them to survive with his farming hunting and fishing techniques. He taught them how to farm. He taught them how to flourish. He told them about. Hey if you cut up pieces of fish and you put it in here in the with the corn kernels. You're gonna have a more bountiful harvest. I love that image because again when for something to flourish for something to grow often. Something else has to die. We can get tangled here casting to s- quantum as a kind of magical benevolent figure helping the colonists. But i think that's why the story of the first thanksgiving meal appeals to people like me white people because of the way it casts us in a kind and gracious and giving light everyone working together for the purpose of the common good but what the oil paintings of the first thanksgiving meal miss is that quantum was not there of his own volition. he was a captive of massa. Soy and massa soit made him be there they missed the corn that the pilgrims eight at the first thanksgiving was there because they stole corn kernels to operate their own crops from native american grapes. I think about this a lot. When i think about the bible bench because so many times. We've come back to these stories with the different lens. It's easy to get discouraged about what we were taught versus. What was reality. The best example. I have of this. Is david bethsheba right. We learned that they committed adultery but in all actuality. That's probably not what happened in the traditional meal we see so many symbols that appeal to us because they are what we want to believe about ourselves. Fellowship peace unity all in the name of giving thanks to god for filling our bellies and nourishing us with heart. It's really beautiful but it is not the whole story and actually i think the whole story although it's complicated and messy can tell us more about who we are and who we want to be you know whatever piece that was brokered on the day of that first. Meal was tenuous at best mass. Oy showed up with over ninety of his men armed to the hilt. There were four women for adult women left in the plymouth colony and they were the ones who made the meal. They probably did not sit at this table. With all the men the pilgrims marched around and fired their guns and after the first recorded p measuring contest on new world soil. Everyone's sat down to eat a lot of meat and just complain about their common enemy. The narragansett tribe quite frankly. This sounds more like thanksgiving meal. I'm familiar with accept. Everyone ends up falling asleep on the couch. Watching lord of the rings two towers to s- quantum and masses wait in the pilgrims appeal to our better angels because we want to believe that narrative no matter our religious political or cultural divide can all still sit at a table and enjoy a meal together. that's what we want to believe. Searching for the truth behind the first thanksgiving meal the mythology behind it and how it was the catalyst for so much violence and death for natives on this land is important is it messy yes is it painful yes. Is that as painful as the genocide of your people. It is not. It's hard work but we can't do hard things. And i think if you are a white person like myself we can't even just stop with a search for the truth. Caitlyn curtis says this beautifully in her phenomenal book native. I didn't eat belonging and rediscovering. God she says the problem is not that we search for the truth. The problem is that we become obsessed with our belief that we hold the truth and we destroy entire cultures in the process. We cannot acknowledge the blessing of green bean casserole and all it entails without examining and understanding the ways white. People have used the thanksgiving meal and the fairytale they've built around it to soothe a white centred interpretation acknowledging any kind of sin generational family is crucial to creating a real life. Thanksgiving table one. That doesn't cover up pain or grief. But dines in full reconciliation with one another unafraid of the past because the past has been dealt with instead of ignored. And that leads me to my final thread. Green bean casserole. So nineteen fifty five a lovely home. Economics director at campbell. Soup company was tasked with an assignment to create a dish using the company's famous canned cream of mushroom soup. What came from that work assignment was the primordial goo of green bean casserole which is probably my top tier thanksgiving side. This woman's name was georgia's riley. She called the dish green bean bake and while it was not immediately seen as the future. Star of many thanksgiving meals shouldn't give up. She kept tweaking the recipe until she struck gold with our beloved. Jbc after she passed away in two thousand eighteen at the age of ninety two campbell soup company issued a statement about her humble and unassuming nature saying that her persistence and creativity led to an enduring recipe that will live on for decades to come fun fact. Campbell's estimates that over forty percent of the cream of mushroom soup sold in the us is specifically for making green bean casserole. I thought about a woman who her family described her as someone who was just thrilled that someone loved her recipes. She was thrilled that it had endured for this long. And i thought about how so many of you were so excited to tell me about the weird thing you eat for thanksgiving. And i was like immersed in recipes for pineapple cheese casseroles and tamales. And i started to think about how holiday meals are a baseline of care for our people. My sister-in-law makes the absolute best green bean casserole. It is literal perfection. I think i'm gonna start asking for it. Instead of birthday cake gorkhas riley walked so katy moon dickerson could run. I think about my niimi. Whose dressing is an actual national treasure after. My uncle shared the recipe on his television. Talk show when you're anytime. I think about the food as a culture of care cannot help but think about my grandmother my needy. This is a woman who raised two boys of my grandfather while also supervising an entire hospital full of nurse says when i think of my grandmother i think of biscuits and comfort i think of dressing and i think of love and i think pie. Six years ago this october. My grandfather unexpectedly passed away. I say unexpectedly because it just seemed impossible that someone is as larger than life and emotionally gigantic. As my papa could ever do anything as normal as passed away the day after his death. My knee suffered a stroke and in the span of forty eight hours. Our entire family dynamic changed. i will never forget. Being in the emergency room. My grandfather had passed away like twenty four hours ago dressing my stunned and shocked grandmother and signing her release paperwork. I will never forget like knowing and understanding fundamentally that i despite having a mortgage and despite being a parent i was an adult now. My grandmother and really the rest of us in hayes for the next few weeks. She was recovering from stroke. She was depressed. She was shocked. She was grieving to lose my grandfather right before. The holidays was a cold dose of reality. We we were f- not ready to do any this without him. It was those weeks between his. Death and thanksgiving fungi. But my alabama family decided that we needed to be with our taxes people for this kind of first horrific ebeneezer stone the first holiday without my grandfather and it seemed as though it would be without my grandmother who was present in the body but very far away. I'll never forget wondering what this was going to look like what this meal was going to look like without him without her her ministry of care in the food that she fed us and we walked into my parents house where my grandmother was living while she recovered in the kitchen smelled like an old memory. It was just. The air was just spiced with the reminders of better days and my grandmother barely holding it together in all the ways she showed up she baked pies. She baked pies. We grew up on in the midst of everything. She showed up to agree. Fight with pie. I think that speaks to all the weird stuff you guys told me about your family or your family or your friends giving have to have for a holiday meal when the sweet potatoes in orange ryan cups or the eminem salad or the trifle dish. Full of green fluff for the random bowls of olives or the carcass gumbo which is actually something that is made in a home with people in it. It's not really about the food. It's about how you feel around the food. When i saw those pies sitting on the buffet that my grandmother made became a symbol of deep affection for something in the past and a future hope by grandmother whether she fully realized it or not was participating in an act of hope and also bringing us along with her. I think that's what we're doing when we idealize the first thanksgiving meal. We hope we can grow into the best version of ourselves when we look at those paintings of the first thanksgiving while it's not all good and true. It's also not all bad. What's in those paintings that we want to keep and what can be acknowledged and repaired. I think the things that we love our partly beautiful because of what we know they can be. Whether that's a whitewashed image of thanksgiving in the sixteen hundreds or still warm pies from the hands of agreed matriarch and when those we love leave us making the foods that they enjoyed as an exercise in joyful longing the reminder that we will sit again at the same table at sue's who've talked about how she buys a can of cranberry sauce and places it on the table to remember her dad. Who loved it when we make the foods that were made for us by hands that are long gone we are putting down that ebeneezer stone. This person was here and it meant something to me. Here's how i remember. Here's how i honor so many of us are going to potentially sit down at tables. The sheer may be in person. Maybe over zoom with the tension of what was and what can be. I don't think it's a coincidence. That thanksgiving in whatever form it takes still happening even in the midst of an extremely fractured culture. I can't think of a thanksgiving meal without thinking of the meal. Promised to us in revelation. Blessed are those who were invited to the marriage supper of the lamb for believers every time we take a bite of green fluff we are participating in an act of future. Hope miss lauren heath and the instagram comments talked about. How thanksgiving at her. Grandmother's spelt a church service. We are performing the same rituals as our jewish brothers and sisters when they partake in the seder. Shaba it's an action of grace as the french say actively moving ourselves to a rhythm that may be at times hard to hear or discern if thanksgiving is going to be difficult for you this year the meals specifically no matter what you're eating i don't i don't care if it's like a tv dinner or you get takeout or you're away from your family. I want you to remember that. It won't always be like this whether that's good or bad and every time we nourish our bodies especially in a way that surrounded with gratitude. We are moving forward. We are stepping out in faith. We are asking god to continue our steps. Food is an act of hope. And i hope that no matter what form that hope takes for you this thanksgiving. I hope that it is a blessing and now a benediction for you make room at the table. Pass the plate. Plop the cranberry sauce right out of the cans straight into the dish lines at off. It doesn't have to be perfect. It's an action of grace per shot the chairs in your heart and make space make space to hold what was and what can be. Take a bite and let it remind you of your life of everything that has made you and what you hope for when we taste. The victories of the thanksgiving kitchen let it reminds us of our future supper with you when we taste the losses of the kitchen. Let it remind us that this is not our home. We thank god for our appetites as they remind us to nourish each other to hunger for truth and taste what god has prepared for us. Mayor meals remind us that what we love is partially beautiful because of what it can be. May we see that reflected in each bite. Our hope for a feast. That will come one day soon. All right guys that is going to do it for this episode of faith adjacent. Don't forget to check out the show notes for additional resources as well as we went through here on the show. This episode would not be possible without cristiana hill and the hundreds of emails comments and dm's we got sharing your stories of your favorite dishes and your questions for thanksgiving here. Faith jason. I'm always open to ideas on what you want to export through a faith lens so please send me an email at hello at faith. The jason with any suggestions you'd like to have considered. I'm your host aaron moon. You can find me on socials at eight moon. You can follow the bible binge on socials at the bible bench. And i will see you next month until then i hope you see god in weird places. I like this person who said they just like. They have to have orange jello. Just straight up on the table. Okay this this lady. Her grandmother makes sweet potatoes in orange lines that recipe. Oh no like you make the sweet potatoes and then you cook them. In the orange line's oh what is no coke salad. My into coke salad black cherry jello cream cheese crushed pineapple and coke. I think i could get into coke salad pepsi salad probably just different variation of coq. Salad green fluff. Here's what i'm learning. The seventies were an amazing time to be a jello product or cool whip product. Good for them. I hope they got their money. Pineapple casserole put the you put the cheese on the pineapple. I would do that chicken and dumplings absolutely not what is wrong with you. Why do people like chicken dumplings. Why why are we normalizing wet biscuits. Oh just ham balls. What is a handball do. I wanna know. I don't yuck i'm sorry. This recipe calls for ham milk graham cracker crumbs tomato soup. I swear i would encourage all of you. Who are thinking about Doing stuffing this year to rethink your life choices and come join us over where the devil does not rain where we take all of the delicious things that make stuffing but we don't cook it inside of a dead bird or you can just your bird. Death juice bread with your handballs and graham crackers and pineapple cheese casserole. This is this dark.
We Gather Together - Creating an American Thanksgiving with Denise Kiernan
"Hello podcast people. Are you subscribe to spotify yet. I am and i love it so much. Spotify has a huge catalog of my favorite podcasts. On every topic including mine. When you download spotify you can follow your favorite podcast so you never miss an episode. Premium users can download episodes. Listen to offline wherever you are and you can easily share what you're listening to with your friends on instagram. How cool is that. So if you haven't done so be sure to the spotify app search for alyssum milano. Sorry not sorry on spotify or browse podcasts. In your library tab also make sure to follow me so you never miss an episode hi. I'm alyssa milano. And this is sorry. Not sorry it's thanksgiving week and we have a special episode for you. That will change the way you see this holiday. My guest today as denise kiernan. Denise is an author journalist and producer her books the last castle and the girls of atomic city were national bestsellers. She joins us to discuss her new book. We gather together. A nation divided a president in turmoil and a historic campaign to embrace gratitude and grace before we attacked the turkey. I want to say a few words. Not only to you. But the media people in every part of the country has seemed to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole american people. Who do we have to thank for the national holiday the pilgrims. Sarah joe's perhaps like so many of you will spend the day with friends and family turkey and touchdowns we'll give thanks for each other. And for all that god has given us happy thanksgiving everybody. My name is denise here. An and i am passionate about getting americans to rethink thanksgiving. Sorry not sorry. So denise. I want to start by asking you to cover the early history of thanksgiving were all taught. From a very early age that the pilgrims landed in plymouth and shared a feast with the native americans living in the area. How close is that accurate. What's so interesting about thanksgiving as we celebrated versus thanksgiving as it has been on this planet for much longer. I'm always fascinated about how traditions and practices evolved the concept of gratitude and giving thanks has been around basically as long as humans have walked the earth. The word thanksgiving and even the practice of thanksgiving has been around for centuries before even conception of the united states of america. Yes the pilgrim's did land at plymouth. Yes the pilgrim's did have a meal with the woman. Og indians was. That proclaimed a thanksgiving now. When thanksgiving became a federal holiday in the united states of america was that event singled out as the reason for establishing that holiday. Now i want to be clear. I am not putting anything out there. That other people haven't said for a while and what's really interesting. I think is that every year. You'll see these. Hey here's the real. This part of thanksgiving and i think part of the reason. Is we tell these stories. We tell this. Essentially two kids in school and then later on when they get into high school or college or whatever we don't necessarily re contextualised and give them the full story so every year it's almost necessary that we keep trotting these things out and contextualisation of history is so important to really kind of look at everything that went into a particular event and thanksgiving again. Like i said you know. I am not the first person to come out. And say yeah. That's not exactly how it happened. But what i'm interested in. And what was one of the linchpins at making me want to do. The book we gather together was the ageless. Timeless concept gratitude view stevens. I'm and author here in madison wisconsin. And i'm thankful for men. Women working press in use of the people. The you don't have a great thanksgiving. There is an alternate true factual story about thanksgiving and gratitude and harvest festivals. And all of those things. And how. The actual holiday came to be in america and evolve and erica so i thought was an alternate entry and wouldn't that be fun and i'm interested. How thanksgiving celebrations changed in the seventeenth and eighteenth century. So a lot of what thanksgiving is rule out of things like harvest festivals. Which again go way. Way back thanksgiving's were often religious practices in various parts of the world. You would set aside a day sometimes for fasting and humiliation as they would say to give thanks for could be particular event. When i was working on we gather together. I came across some really interesting articles including some archives from the atoms stanley. john adams. John quincy adams. Abigail adams and john adams writes in his diary thanksgiving for the repeal of the stamp act. So like that was something. You would have a thanksgiving for declare thanksgiving for thanksgiving's for various wins in battle or days of general thanksgiving or like. I said fasting and humiliation so those sorts of advance existed outside of north america. What we now consider the continental united states they existing europe and those traditions were obviously brought over when people came over but the concept of having days set aside for saying thank. You is something that goes back a very very long time. Tell us about. Sarah josefa so sarah of a hail was so compelling to me because she was a young woman born in the early nineteenth century actually of the eighteenth century. She had no formal schooling but her parents instilled in her a deep deep love of reading and learning and she was obsessed with the written word. She married a man who shared her love of all these things. They used to have study hour together in the evenings. She lost him fairly early on in their marriage and so she was a widowed mother of five children and because of her desire to write ended up becoming one of the most influential editors in the nineteenth century. She edited to popular women's magazines. The american ladies magazine and then go. Jeez ladies magazine which was one of the most popular magazines in the nineteenth century. And just to be able to do that to me whether thing but what really moved me about her was that she had all of these things that she needed not wanted but like needed to do for herself and her children but she still found time to raise money for people who have less than she did and to bring people's attention to causes she thought worthy and her ten city was just. I mean seriously. I was interviewing her thinking good. What have i been doing with my time. You know how i feel like. I'm talking to her. You know when. I am interviewing her. I'm looking at what she wrote. I'm looking at what she was quoted as saying. I'm looking at the book she put out. I'm looking at the end. Policies that she curated and is it true that she wrote. Mary had a little lamb. Yes incredible. oh it's crazy you're looking at all of this other stuff and then you're like oh by the way so. It was originally called mary's lamb. She definitely did write it. The story behind the writing of that is that one of the early job she was able to get was as a schoolteacher. In a rural area. In new hampshire and kids would walk to school and apparently usually farm animals would follow kids to school so she wrote this poem. Mary's lamb and that became as we know it. Mary had a little lamb. But what's so funny. Is there were so many stanzas. It's a really long poem. Bits a lot long is and where we were editing. The book i told my editor. I said i feel like we have to the whole in there because i had no idea that long but yeah that's her to thilo sections date for for things in life. So how did she go from writing. One of the most famous children's poems to being the driving force behind a national thanksgiving holiday right so before her husband died. Like i said she was very into reading. She was very into books the written word she wrote a lot. She wrote poems. She wrote essays. She wrote stories. And her husband encouraged her to actually put those stories out in the world after he died the need to make money grew when she first published mary's lamb. It was not as famous as it is today. Lives in a book called poems for children and so she was writing and editing for a variety of places but she loved thanksgiving and in her first novel and she literally wrote this as a widowed mother writing at night. 'cause that was the only time she could get quiet her house at the time right. After her husband's death she was working in a milliner shop with her sister-in-law and she wrote a novel and in that novel. She had almost an entire chapter dedicated to a thanksgiving meal. She loves everything. Having to do with thanksgiving and in new england thanksgiving among the puritans was more important than christmas and a lot of that celebration. She had grown up with so the description in her novel. Northwood is one of the most decadent descriptions of thanksgiving meal you'll ever read. And her father was a revolutionary war veteran he had been injured during the revolutionary war and she was one of those people who just thought that the united states should be together. They should be united and she believed in the union and she thought that having everyone celebrate thanksgiving on the same day throughout the country would be moving and meaningful and significant high antonie van pelt from indian shores florida in most grateful that more than half of the people in our country voted to save our democracy to end racism when i think about it. Were only on the earth for a blink of an eye and look at all that we have accomplished in the short period of time. Because as i said you know thanksgiving had existed in europe and other places and traditions were brought over. I mean usually what would happen is the governor of the state would say okay. The general thanksgiving this fall for harvest will be. Maybe it's an october in massachusetts. Maybe it's in november in new york. They choose these different days and she said it should be on the same day. Everybody should do it at the same time. We need another national holiday. Because at the time there was just washington's birthday and independence day fourth of july. She said we need this and would not be a really beautiful powerful thing. And one of the first thanksgiving she describes is in her eighteen twenty seven novel and she spent decades writing letters to presidents and campaigning to create this national holiday. I mean what did people around her think of this. I know right. This is when you really want to be able to just time travel and go back and be a fly on the wall because there were people who really enjoyed the idea of thanksgiving days were not unfamiliar but the idea of just having one and everybody in the country due to the same time was not normal so she would write about it in her magazine as her role. She called herself in edris and she would write about it in her magazine. What you could cook why it was important why it could bring the union the country together. She wrote governor. She wrote ambassadors and other parts of the world. She wrote the heads of territories. That were not states yet but she knew that this was going to be something that really stock and really lasted. She had to get presidents on board and lincoln was the one who finally agreed but she had written taylor pierce fill more and buchanan before then and so. What's interesting to me is like every year she'd write presidents and she wouldn't get what she wanted. But you know maybe a couple other states would get on board. And maybe a couple of newspapers in ohio or the dakota territory or whatever would say yes. We should all do this on. The last thursday of november as this woman says i mean she was such a visionary and then you think about that. This was a time when women were almost entirely excluded from political life and it's just even more spectacular absolutely. She could not vote. She knew vote. So you think about the inability to vote and yet the ability to have such an incredible impact. It often makes me think of when. I see these kids in high school today. Who are just taking action to make changes in their communities. I think yeah. Maybe you can't vote but you can effect change if you're passionate about something and and you take action on your committed to something you can see the ripples from little stone. You tried to throw in the water. She lived in an age where she didn't have a boat. She was a widow. She had no formal education and she was just committed to a particular idea and she was committed to bringing people together and she didn't give up. Which is what. I find the most interesting. I mean it would have been great if she had said. Hey i want this to be a national holiday. The first president she wrote said yeah. Good idea. let's do it. let's go yeah but instead it took her awhile and she hung in there because it was something she believed. It was something that meant something to her to me. That idea of the effect and the change that she was enabled to engender despite not having the permission of others to have that voice. We was really really interesting. If you haven't heard about anger let me tell you a little bit about it. It is the easiest way to make a podcast. I've just joined. And i can't tell you how much i love it. And here's a few reasons why it's free. It's super easy to create and record podcasts. Right from your computer. Literally anyone can do it. Anchor handles all of the distribution. All you have to do is record or upload your podcast and then they send it out to spotify and apple podcasts and everywhere else and get this anchor can help you get paid for podcasting without any minimum listener number. Everything you need to make your podcast is in one place at anchor. Download the free anchor or go to anchor dot. Fm to get started so. Tell me how it came to be. That lincoln wrote has thanksgiving proclamation and about sarah josefa hells role in that happening. She was writing governor. She was writing ambassador. She was writing territories. She knew she had to write presidents. She went through. Taylor pierce bill more and then lincoln and she wrote president lincoln and she wrote william henry seward who worked with lincoln and so she wrote the two of them in eighteen sixty three. Now what's interesting to me and one of the things that actually sort of compelled me to work on. This book was a lot of times when i ride. I'm not so interested necessarily in a particular event or a particular person but rather the juxtaposition of events and people and their intersection so to me the fact that were basically goes to lincoln and says he southern states were saying. We're trying to take away. Their state's rights these states. They were not giving them their state's rights and here's another right. We can take away and lincoln said oh great. What do you want me to do now. This is from seward's autobiography and he said the right to declare thanksgiving 'cause governors had been doing this and lincoln thought will. This wasn't a law on the books. So yeah why. Not but the fact that seward thought it was a good idea and lincoln said yes in the middle of the civil war so to me the idea of creating a holiday that brings people together in the middle of a moment when we were so incredibly divided through the fog of civil war. President lincoln saw what mattered most the unalienable truths for which so many gave their lives. And which made possible. A new birth of freedom and so precisely when the fate of the union hung in the balance he boldly proclaimed a day of thanksgiving when the nation's gifts should be solemnly reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole american. People that to me was just a really really interesting intersection of bats. And he gets this letter and the letter you can see that she wrote and it's so lovely. I love when you can see people's handwriting. You can see her actual written letter. It's been scammed by the national archives. And he got back to her very very quickly like under like a couple of weeks and seward had already started working on what he thought would be a good proclamation. And he and lincoln worked together to finish it up and then he issued it in early october. The date that he set was the one that she suggested. Which was the last thursday in november when the week before then he was going to be giving a speech at gettysburg for just incredible loss and incredible heartache and incredible suffering so again that juxtaposition of events struck me well and i can't help but seeing parallels today right where a nation is so incredibly divided. And there's so much suffering an illness and death around us. How in that divided time did a leader find space for a national holiday of gratitude. Right and what lessons do you think we can. Take from that proclamation. Exactly that's one of the things that struck me first of all in the midst of everything that lincoln was dealing with. He thought this editor's letter is a good thing for me to pay attention to. I should really do this. And that he did. And it was to me such an important statement. And i don't know what lincoln was thinking at the time i wish i did but i feel as though you know. He wanted the union to stay together. She wanted the union to stay together in many ways. They were kind of similar in that respect. And what are the reasons when you talk about. What are the lessons we have today. What are the things that bring us together. We focus so much today on. What differ on. I'm this way you're that way. I think this you think that. What are the things that we hold in common. I care about my family. My family cares about me. Care about my care about my community important for me to be healthy to have food on my table to be able to get an education to have a job to feel safe to feel secure to occasionally laugh and have a good time and maybe enjoy a meal. I mean to me. These are things that no party. no no division. They were focusing on. What was a universal uniting. Good and if history can be teacher. I think there is a lesson in that. Can we focus on. What brings us together. Can we focus on those things that we haven't promised goodness knows right now. There is a lot of focus on what we don't and what gets angry at each other. And what makes us wanna yell and scream in tweeden to all those sorts of things but these were people in an incredibly contentious time when people were at war firing weapons on neighbors family members. And it's not to say that everybody heard lincoln's proclamation and said gay thanksgiving. Everything's all better now but at the same time just design fire or that willingness to say you know what let's just set aside a day where we all. Just stop and say thank you. My name is peter more lead. I'm from new york new york and i'm so grateful this year for all of the healthcare voices that have risen up over the last four years to speak out against the administration and this gop congress from repealing of care you have saved it. I am so grateful and thank fall as someone who suffers from chronic illness of lincoln. And hail you right. She was far from perfect as was he. But somehow perfectly suited to this occasion seeking unity in different ways ways. Neither had thought might align not under these circumstances not in these divisive times. Tell us about some of the imperfections of both hail lincoln. One of the things. I find interesting. When i and i write mostly about history is that we have this real tendency to either beatify or vilify people. They're all good or they're all bad and the fact of the matter is we're all just really really flawed and someone like hail if you look at some twentieth twenty-first century examinations of who she was. She fought for women's education. She wanted nothing to do. Really with the suffrage movement at was not a battle. She fought and she was the editor of a magazine of a big important influential magazine. She could have fought that fight but to her. It was like i want young women to get an education. I think that is their best road. Forward some people view that as a failing of hers. I get that but to me. It's always interesting to think. Well one hundred fifty years from now. How are people going to look back at us and judge what we did or didn't do very harshly very your family. Thank you extremely harshly. Extremely harshly are sleet. And it's like well. This is a woman who was raising money for poor people and fighting for young women's education. And you're gonna raked over the coals. Because she wasn't a suffragette. We are going to be raked over the coals as society. For a lot of stuff years from now. So that's hail lincoln for many years. When i grew up he was viewed as degrade emancipator. And the masturbation proclamation. This is very important. Incredible stuff but you know. Lincoln was no abolitionist. And when it came to enslaved people in the united states he basically wanted the unions. Stay together you know whatever that meant. And he wasn't quite sure what to do about the enslaved population if and when they were actually free and you can see. His views evolve throughout time but he did not put his life or his words or his choices on the line and say we have to free. Enslaved people no matter what the cost. But this doesn't mean that. What hail or lincoln did wasn't important or significant and we have this tendency. Like i said to like they're either all good or they're all bad and basically most of us just trying to make our way and hopefully doing the right thing. I mean people were losing their jobs for writing abolitionist texts. Now that doesn't mean that hail should or should not have been an abolitionist but she may have looked around at people. She knew who lost their jobs for being a little more vocal than they did and thought. Yeah i'm not gonna do that. Because i have kids or maybe she wasn't thinking that again. Those are those sorts of things like again. I wish i could time travel and go back and ask. But i don't like aerobic portrait of people in history because a they are never accurate. They're accurate and b. they're not relatable. I mean who of us are perfect. I mean we're all just trying which is not to excuse or justify the choices people make but to just look back at them a little more honestly and clearly in say yeah. I don't know if i agree with that choice. But that's the choice that person made. How did they make that choice. Why did they make that choice. And what can we take from that experience. I mean how. Many of us today feel really strongly about structural racism for example which is undeniable. How many of us would resist losing jobs in our livelihoods to stand up for someone to do that. I mean these kinds of questions. Come up for me when i look at the past. And that's when i think history can be a really interesting teacher. Well i wanna get back to thanksgiving and ask. How did it evolve after lincoln. Inhale did other. Presidents continued to issue proclamations. How did it become a national holiday. So after lincoln agreed in eighteen sixty three hale wrote him again in eighteen sixty four. He agreed he issued another proclamation. There was another thanksgiving. She wrote every president as long as she was alive. Rutherford b hayes was the last president but even early on in the eighteen sixties. She wrote in her magazine. She said this is not going to be a holiday until it is law. We need an act of congress to make this law otherwise it will always be at the whim of the president and then we'll usually happen is the president would say okay. You last thursday of november is thanksgiving and governors. In turn would say to their state their papers. Yes president jackson. Yeah president grant has said. This day is going to be thanksgiving. We agree and this is what's going to happen in our state. Please closure offices this that and the other she knew if it wasn't a congressional act it was always going to be at the whim of someone but people kept doing it and became a tradition. The last thursday of november. The last thursday of november the last thursday of november and it becomes bigger and bigger and kim lewis from palos verdes. California i'm grateful for the activists who have come together in my local area during the past four years. They have truly kept me. Afloat pre covid we met for post carting rallies and meetings during covid. We meet virtually. Of course you know who you are and so very thankful for you. It starts to be associated with the christmas shopping season holiday shopping season in the early nineteen twenties. There were parades. And then the in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. President roosevelt had been actually approached years earlier. Went thanksgiving fell on the thirtieth november thirtieth by various merchants across the united states. Saying this is really cutting the shopping season short. Could you please push it back a week. So that we have a longer shopping season and the first time he was petitioned for this he said now in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. They really came at him again. And they were debating all sorts of things they were going to have thanksgiving in the middle of the week in the middle of november and he actually does agree to have thanksgiving. T. proclaims thanksgiving is going to be the fourth thursday of november. Not last and like half. The country said no. We're doing it when we usually do. Half the country goes along with him. People who had scheduled football games and holidays and all that we're losing their minds. The people who printed calendars were just apoplectic because they get printed. The calendar a year earlier and thanksgiving is on a last thursday. All of this stuff went up in the air and it was because it had become such a tradition but it was not a congressionally fixed tradition and some people. A couple of states celebrated the fourth thursday last thursday. It didn't go over well as an experiment. And then finally it became an act of congress right after the bombing of pearl harbor and to me and that was such an interesting juxtaposition of events. So you have hail and lincoln in the middle of the civil war. And then you have finally the act of congress establishing the holiday on a federal level during world war two and again you have these moments of incredible suffering and strife and division and these reminders of a holiday to come together so i thought that was so interesting. Hi this is anonymous bias. And i'm from irvine california. By way of austin texas and i'm grateful today that the majority of our country thinks that my little queer interracial interreligious inter-ethnic family has the right to be married and exists and actually thrive. I wanna talk a little bit about. How some communities have been totally whitewashed or basically raised from our thanksgiving stories. We tell us about the role of native americans in the observation of thanksgiving. And then can you tell us a bit about dennis. But she had an his thanksgiving proclamation. So when you get into the later nineteenth century and early twentieth century there were a couple of articles and magazines. Actually that presented fictionalized ideas of what the pilgrims and the native americans or the indians as they call them and celebrated early precolonial days. This kind of melded dovetailed with a lot of anti immigrant sentiment that was going on in the late nineteenth century and you saw people really sort of becoming obsessed with the idea of. What was the first thanksgiving which was not something that hail ever mentioned in any of her proclamations than any of her letters. Not something that. Any president had mentioned in their proclamations until roosevelt. Pilgrim's indians were not a part of the national story but they started to work their way into sort of the popular culture but then native american became sort of a part of someone else's pageant an inaccurate parts of someone else's pageant. Dennis bushy had was the head of the cherokee nation and cherokee nation in the late eighteen. Hundreds they issued their own thanksgiving proclamations on the heels of the presidential proclamation to they nation and what was interesting. Not just about bush's heads proclamation. But also about the president says they often use these proclamations as a moment to talk about what was important to them and what they feel like they're administration had accomplished things to be thankful for might've been things they had actually put in place and done and who she had used his to talk about lands and the protection of lands because that was something that was from before even the united states existed had been constantly taken away from indigenous peoples in the original occupants of this continent so it was interesting to me that the cherokee nation had issued these thanksgiving proclamations to say thank you because native american cultures on this continent and elsewhere have long had as many other cultures have traditions of giving thanks. And it's not limited to one particular day. I mean in many ways the best lessons about giving thanks for the sun. The sky the water the earth everything that feeds us and sustains us those lessons are best learned from the original occupants of this land so interesting to me that she had put out this proclamation and he really did. Talk about in the proclamation. The idea of how lucky they had these lands and they had enough lands that they would be able to live and thrive on and it just sort of sounds when you read it. Like a nudge nudge. To the united states government that these lands should be protected but then as time goes on the thanksgiving myth grows and native americans and other indigenous peoples of this continent beyond american united states of america borders found themselves losing their lands losing their lives suffering from various diseases. And then were just kind of propped. Up as hey there. Was this great meal. Everybody had together. And everyone's happy and that's not the full story. And as you get into the sixties in the seventies there was a lot of activism around that and a lot of attention and there were some really wonderful moments you know in the early seventies. they fly the flag of the wattana off over the us capital and that flag was presented by a descendant of the pilgrims to the acting chief of the waffen. Og and the descendant of the pilgrim said. If it weren't for these people i wouldn't be here. Because the native americans in their knowledge and their willingness to share that knowledge with the new arrivals to this country that enabled them to survive. This is mindy schwartz in carlsbad california right now. I'm most grateful that my parents are in their late. Eighties are healthy and live in the state of new jersey where they are being taken care of by the people at the place. They live and by governor who is putting the health and safety of his citizens. I it's going to be hard not to spend thanksgiving with family. The right thing to do so there were some really really lovely moments that happened in the sixties and seventies. But like you said we're still teaching kids the same old story. I think it's interesting. That in the sixties and seventies when women's rights were such an important part of the civil rights movement that we don't know about sarah jones hails contribution to the holiday as part of the national story. So it seems also like women were erased from the story as well. Yeah yeah of course and actually when you look at the proclamation so like i said most of the presidential proclamations of thanksgiving were. We're thankful that were not miss war anymore. Thankful that the railroad was completed across the continent or were thankful for this that or the other and again like plugging their administration or you know other blessings etcetera. It wasn't until roosevelt. In almost one thousand nine hundred forty mentioned the pilgrims that was the first president who ever mentioned. Pilgrim's but didn't mention hail actually the only president whose proclamation i could find who mentioned hale was reagan once and there's so many people a lot of them are women is asking like wrote the girls of atomic city in the last castle on both of them have a lot of female figures in them and people say. Oh you know you right. Women's history. And i always say no i. Don't i just read history. There were a lot of women in it right. There were a lot of women in history. You know i've just writing history really. They were always there. I'm not putting anybody in there. Who wasn't already there. Let me ask you this. What do you think that we should do differently to shape this holiday to be more inclusive and reflective of. It's true history. I think that there is such especially if you just go back and you go outside of our borders. There is such a long tradition of just giving. Thanks as a community. Hey this is steve. Hoffstetter coming to from pittsburgh pennsylvania and i'm thankful for people who know that science is not out to get them signs of here to help. Please wear your masks happy thanksgiving. That's a very personal thing. Something i think is the most amazing thing in the world. You might not something. You're extremely grateful for. I might think. Oh yeah whatever. It's a personal thing but at the same time the idea of everybody just coming together at once and saying thank you to me is an extremely extremely powerful things in a way and now and i get into this at the end of the book. We have so much more solid scientific neurological research about the power and importance and the mental physical and emotional benefits of their attitude. Yeah yeah naked measure and they do of having gratitude practice so when you combine that with just this ancient timeless idea of taking time to give. Thanks we're just sort of like. Let's just get back to the basics. We have a day when we can all come together and say we're going to find something to say. Thank you for and you know what we are. Probably no matter who we are what we believe or where we're at there probably a lot of those things that we all value and having common. It's great way to just come together and find common ground. So i would just love her people to just get back to the essence of thanksgiving which is just literally giving banks the end. Hi my name is laurie. I'm from broward county. And i am grateful for empathy. Think it's important that we understand the thoughts and feelings of others from a lens of empathy and allows us to fight back against racism. Xenophobia islamaphobia homophobia ageism ableson massage the anti semitism and bigotry. How will you be celebrating thanksgiving this year. Oh you know. I love thanksgiving. I will cook a lot. Usually a so thursday is cooking well. Actually cooking starts earlier in the week but thursday's the meal and saturday. I usually have a very big drop in an leftover party. And i make li. Oh yeah make wiping chilly with the leftover turkey. I make little sliders. Because i do my stuffing as muffins in muffins hymns and then when their leftover you can slice them in half and they make great little slider buns and we decorate the tree on that saturday so friends would stop over whenever they felt like just eat and hanging ornament on the tree and say hello. That's not happening now. But it's something to look forward to and it can happen again. You'd us yes. I'm going to be having a lot of course with folks having zooms with folks. I've actually up on my website. Put up thanksgiving inspired. Zoom backgrounds resumes. Giving people can go to my website and go to zooms giving and gratitude conversation starters. I've little downloadable cards. Because i want to encourage everyone to be very safe and do what they need to do. And it's a wonderful opportunity to. I will probably reach out and be in touch with people. Haven't been in touch with because i won't be hosting twenty people at my house so i mean i will probably have more time to make that extra call or had that extra facetime with somebody. I normally don't just because i won't be occupied there. But i will still no matter what i will be making my cranberries and fandel sauce and i will be having madeira gravy. My stuffing muffins. Pavas centers thanksgiving for you know. I'm so confused. I think he comes on easter. No who comes on. Easter easter bunny. No no no. He comes on thanksgiving. No you're the chicken comes on thanksgiving. I thought the chicken came on the fourth of july. What turkey or chicken comes on thanksgiving. Yeah they don't get away either so if you could pick only one thanksgiving food to eat. What would it be close ratio by asking each of our guests. This question and i will ask you as well. Denise what gives you hope that such a great question mark gives me hope little moments of grace. Give me hope. For example. i went out to a local farm. I live in ashville north carolina now after many years in new york city and we have a lot of local farmers and growers and i went out to go get some chickens from a local chicken farmer was pretty long drive and that is shed by the road and just a jar money in there and my chickens were in there and they had a bunch of other vegetables and things for sale on it was all on the honor system and everybody follows it and to me. I just thought that's really lovely. And the day after i got a little. Thank you note from some young like nine and ten year old neighbors up the street. We'd give them some staffer thanksgiving and they did little handwritten notes and that meant a lot to me. And then i look at people like jose andres and people who are just feeding people who don't have time. Jose is amazing. Oh my god. I just i love him him from a distance once i was at his place in new york and i saw him the urge to like run. Just give him a hug right. Say john oh my god. I'm so overwhelming. He's doing god's work for sure yes he is but i control myself because i didn't want to scare them but i give thanks for people like that or that man and i'm blanking on his name even though i wrote about him in my bunk. Who did laps in his backyard. In england with his walker to raise money for the health service he raised. I think at the end it was like forty four million dollars. Wow from l. Health service and the queen night at him. It was fantastic and it's just people taking little actions that might seem insignificant but they add up and it gives me hope because there are lots of little things you can do every day to just make somebody feel a little better. I am thankful for you. Denise and for you being on the podcast thank you no other place. And at no other time as the experiment of government of the people by the people for the people and tried on so vast a scale here in our own country failure would not only be a dreadful thing for us but dreadful thing for all mankind because it would mean loss of hope for all who believe in the power and the righteousness of liberty therefore in thanking god for mercies extended to us in the past we beseech him that he may not withhold them in the future and that our hearts may be roused wore steadfastly for good and against all the forces of evil public and private. We pray for strength and light so that in the coming years. We may with cleanliness. Fearlessness and wisdom do are a lot of work on the earth in such a manner as to show that we are not altogether unworthy of the blessings we have received finding gratitude in twenty twenty can be difficult. We are a nation more divided than at any point in most of our lifetimes. Millions of us have lost loved ones to a pandemic. our government refuses to manage our economy is in shambles because of that. Same government and an outgoing president has dramatically undermined. The faith in our nation and most of us will not be gathering around the thanksgiving table with a large collection of the people. We love because of covid. The sins of our past are growing in our present and the ills we as a nation have done to native americans and communities of color are magnified many times over as the pandemic disproportionately ravages their communities. But there is still so much for which we can be grateful. The turmoil we are living through provides us with so much opportunity to finally get things right that we have consistently gotten wrong. We are on the cusp of a new administration with a chance of renewed hope in america and we are learning how to to the dangerous world finding ways to celebrate together in meaningful ways despite great distances. I am so thankful and so grateful that you chose to spend an hour a week with me listening to the stories of america and some of the people fighting to make her a better more just more equitable place. Thank you for being here with me. And i hope the blessings of your thanksgiving this year grow beyond measure in years to come. Sorry not sorry is executive produced by a lotta. That's me our associate producer as ben jackson. Editing and engineering by natasha's jacobs and music by josh cooke. Alicia eagle and milo bully ari. That's my boy. Please subscribe on spotify tunes or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you like the show please rate review and spread the word sorry.
SMNTY Classics: The Mother of Thanksgiving
"Ever feel like we are more divided than ever. If you're tired of hearing about all the things that separate is you have to check out spit a new podcast from iheartradio with twenty three and me where they focus on the ninety nine point five percent that we all have genetically in common the podcast discusses how science and Dina play a role in our society in our lives. How your DNA story can be experienced today and a whole lot more host bear tune day. Thurston? Sits with the biggest artists and influences of our time, including John legend, Melissa Ethridge and Pete Wentz. Join us subscribe to the spit podcast and learn more about the DNA found in our spit understand who we really are generically and how we are connected to the world around us. Listen to full episodes now on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcast. This is Anne, and you're listening to stuff on never told you. It's just about thanksgiving here in the states. And that means one of my favorite stories of her story, the story of Ana Josefa HALE and how thanksgiving became a holiday is not quite as good as the story vine mother's day that one's spectacular. But it's up there. Talk about persistence, and I know I'll be annoying all of my family members with all the thanks giving facts this year. And if you're interested pass host co-host, Kristen, and I used to make these dorky videos called her story, and Kristen what is amazing in them. Of course. But we did one about the history of thanksgiving and Anna Josefa hail. So you can find it on YouTube if you want, but for for those of you preparing to push the boundaries of your elastic pants or for those vaguely curious about why Americans. Celebrate this holiday on the third Thursday of November sit back and enjoy. Welcome to stuff. Mom, never told you from how stuff works dot com. Hello. And welcome to the podcast. I'm kristen. And I'm Caroline and first off I would like to say happy birthday to Caroline. Because this is what thanksgiving episode and you'll birthday is on thanksgiving this year. I love it. I love this birthday cycle that I have where every couple of years. I get to pretend that the giant feast and the pie that follows is just for me. Now, will you have a special cake in addition to pies yet? Okay. Oh, yeah. Chocolate on chocolate, man. I like your birthday style. Thanks. Well, you have a woman to thank for this thanksgiving slash birthday feast that you will be having and I'm not talking about your momma. Oh, okay. No offense to Sally. I'm talking about Sarah Josefa hail. Oh, yes. She is the mother of thanksgiving. Yeah. And much like the mother of mother's day, Anna Jarvis. Yes. There we go and Jarvis who stars in one of our videos. Sarah HALE, had very particular ideas about how thanksgiving should go. And you know, of course, that included starting the thanksgiving mythology about the wonderful dinner coming together of the native Americans and the pilgrims. Indeed, the sixteen Twenty-one feast that's often cited as the first thanksgiving which was thrown by the pilgrims, aka the Browns English dissenters was as thanksgiving scholars, and yes, there are thanksgiving. Scholars would point out was merely the result of their puritanical fasting and feasting tradition. Right. And and so it was not uncommon to have a thanksgiving feast a giving of thanks celebration. If something amazing happened in this particular case, it was because they were thanking God for having a great food store. They'd made it through the winter, and they had enough food and tasty morsels and things it was definite. Not a scheduled ritual that would have been presumptuous because they were these feast, Ren, direct direct correlation with something awesome. That happened that was from God in their in their view. Yeah. And on the flip side of that. They would have these days of feasting. Yes. But they would also have those periods of fasting to where they would be seeking perhaps mercy from God by abstaining from food. So the whole idea of the pilgrims coming together with the womp, Noah, get native Americans in having this happy. Go lucky wonderful meal that then set off the course of thanksgiving history, as we know it is a bit of revisionist history. Courtesy of Sarah Josefa hail. Although that's not to say that there weren't other thanksgiving like celebrations that would happen. This was pretty common to have a giant meal to celebrate something. Absolutely. That's my favorite way. To celebrate something in seventeen seventy seven the continental congress declared a thanksgiving and then. In seventeen eighty nine Washington cold for a repeat and until eighteen fifteen new Englanders usually continued the tradition, but it is MRs HALE who we can thank for this glorious day of Turkey. Yeah. And we learned more about s j HALE over at the national women's history museum and the Boston women's heritage trail. She was born in New Hampshire in seventeen eighty eight taught herself at home, while her brother went off to Dartmouth. Because that's kinda how schooling went those days and her parents, though, did believe that their daughter. She get a quality education. But just not in public, right? Not not out of the house. So lord. Yeah. And she would sometimes studied the books that her brother bought brought home from college and in eighteen o six with all of this great education. She she received at eighteen she opened a private school and taught there until marrying lawyer David Hale in eighteen thirteen but then David the lawyer died in eighteen twenty two. And so she had five kids at the time and thought to herself, Sarah, what are we going to do to take care of all these kids, and she was a writer, and so she she wrote the book of poems, the genius of oblivion and other poems. And she also wrote a novel called northwood in eighteen twenty seven that had a lot of info in there on a thanksgiving celebration, a traditional New England thanksgiving. Yeah, I love how she paints thanksgiving as something that everybody should participate in. She also wrote Mary had a little lamb lamb in eighteen thirty. Yeah. So and so we should in the podcast there. Yes. Woman the created thanksgiving and wrote Mary had a little lamb the end done side note, though during this time on that. She was doing all of this writing in eighteen thirty three she established the Seaman's aid society in Boston to provide employment for the wives of sailors as seamstresses and a place for them to sell their work. She also. Developed an industrial school for Siemens, daughters and a day nursery. So she was like way ahead of the curve on having onsite daycare. And even though this is jumping forward a bit in the time line. I would I would like to note that one of her literary successes was her compilation of a woman's encyclopedia going along with this theme of her push for women's education and employment opportunities, she wrote women's records or sketches of all distinguish women from the creation to AD eighteen fifty four arranged in four eras with selections from female writers of every age. I appreciate how nineteenth century subtitles were so blessedly long. It's it's great. But before this so before she wrote her women's encyclopedia she had acquired all this literary success and became the editor of the American ladies magazine, and then the editor of the goads ladies journal, and while that might not sound like a big deal that was essentially like her becoming Joanna Cole who is the now editor of cosmopolitan. Yeah. It's a pretty big deal. I mean, she was in this role for forty years, and she used the magazine as a platform to advocate for women's education. For instance, one example, she was very supportive of Vassar when it opened its doors in eighteen sixty five and in this magazine goldies ladies journal, she published reading lists just like Oprah. So she's this woman is swear she's a trailblazer. And she would list schools that accepted. Women and she also in addition to starting that Siemens aid society, she championed women pursuing careers like teaching and medicine, and she also supported her claims though, with contemporary contemporary, ideas of women being more pious impure saying that women are basically more cut out for teaching in medicine than men. I will note though, that I I learned and this is not thanksgiving related, but I did learn a couple of days ago that goat cheese under the editorial leadership of Sarah Josefina HALE was largely responsible for popularizing, the tradition of white wedding gowns, oh and the United States because Queen Victoria had eighteen forty wedding. She wore the white gown and a decade later in go dis. There is this edict essentially saying women white is the color you must wear. So I mean, that's just an example of how influential to the. This magazine was at the time. And once she took over she dedicated pretty much every November to lobbying for a national day of thanks. She used her platform. Yes. She called for a pious patriotic holiday that would serve as a check against temptation or a comfort in tough times. And she wanted all to participate in this. Thanksgiving holiday, regardless of race, ethnicity or social standing and Anna blue wills whose an associate professor at Davidson did a really intensive study of Goethe's end, Sara Josephine hails campaign for thanksgiving. And she found that HALE was largely pushing for thanksgiving, even more. So as the tensions increased between the north and the south the the closer that we got to the civil war. The more HALE was calling for a thanksgiving, and she even used Goethe's the platform kind of like a Martha Stewart sort of way. Way to tell readers how to decorate Andress for thanksgiving. And of course, she included plenty of recipes. Right. And so I mean during this whole time though, like we mentioned thanksgiving was already these celebrations were already in New England tradition. It was already something that was going on. But HALE really for decades used her platform to urge presidents to make this a national holiday. She was not just sitting there writing columns or screaming out into the abyss. I mean, she was really pushing this to be a national holiday yet took her thirty eight years. I think she started with president Polk writing him and saying, please, let's have this day of thanks, and then is on November twenty ninth. Eighteen sixty ABRAHAM LINCOLN had his own thanksgiving with his family after just being elected because this is very common. Again, this idea of celebrating something that has happened with a delicious meal of food. And Lincoln did have a roasted Turkey as is only proper. Indeed. And I mean, you know, Lincoln was not the only person to be doing this. It was happening in the south to after the civil war got underway on July twenty eighth eighteen sixty one confederate president Jefferson Davis called for thanksgiving celebration in the south after their victory at bull run and a year later in September of eighteen sixty to the confederacy held its second and final thanksgiving after their second bull run victory and that lead up to eighteen sixty three when Lincoln issues, not one. But two thanksgiving proclamations. Yes. Eighteen sixty three is the year for thanksgiving in the United States on August sixth. He issues his first proclamation after the Union's victory at Gettysburg. And then he issues a second declaring thanksgiving a holiday, and this was really a decisive. Political move for him due to the civil war. I mean, this was a not so symbolic way to say, hey, nation things are going really poorly. But can we just get together for a meal and a lot of Turkey. Yeah. I mean, it was a good way to sort of try to knit knit everybody back together and on October third eighteen sixty three when he issued his proclamation. He says, I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the United States and also those who are at sea and those who are jerning in foreign lands to set apart and observe the last Thursday of November next as a day of thanksgiving and praise to our beneficent father who dwell in the heavens, could you go back and say all of that, and your ABRAHAM LINCOLN voice in Fava who dwell in the heavens knows that. That's he had a high pitched voice. Like I've read Li. Oh, yeah. That's true. Yeah. Got a little Daniel day. Lewis Lincoln going on there. If there's one thing that anyone has ever said about me. It's that I am. So Daniel day Lewis. It's true. It's true. Then in eighteen sixty four thanksgiving was not so surprisingly heavily focused on thanking the union troops for doing their work in the civil war. And it seems like from there with the story of thanksgiving is just where it takes off from there perhaps because Syria Josephina HALE had so diligently set the foundation of outlining the guidelines for proper thanksgiving in Goethe's, people knew the decor. They knew what to wear they knew the food to cook. And you already had that tradition already going on. So I just needed a little push. And who wouldn't be like, well sure, we'll take this national holiday where we have a day off from work and get to eat all day. Right. But we'll we'll get to why it's not such a day off for women in a second. Today's episode of stuff. Mom, never told. You is brought to you by Robin Hood, Robin Hood is an investing app that lets you buy and sell stocks ETF's options and cryptos all commission free. So I don't know much about the stock market. That's why I was so happy to use. Robinhood. It's a non intimidating way for stock market newcomers. Like me to invest for the first time with true confidence. It's simple and intuitive clear design and data are easy to digest. And it's an easy apt to use their easy to understand charts and market data, and it updates on your phone. So you're always kept in the know. And it's perfect for those who learn by doing like us, Robin Hood is giving listeners a free stock like apple Ford or sprint help. Build your portfolio. Sign up at mom stuff, Robin, Hood dot com. That's a mom south that Robin Hood dot com. But I mean aside note in nineteen thirty nine FDR tried to push thanksgiving back one week. Oh my God. What is he doing at the behest of retailers looking for more shopping time between thanksgiving and Christmas and people do not go for that? Yeah. People got so mad that they started calling it franksgiving, which is so funny. And he finally threw in the towel said Lowe. Okay, listen, we we're going to have it at the normal time. People Americans were very attached to thanksgiving. Although I would like to take a moment and acknowledge Canadian thanksgiving which happens in October. And I did some research for a stuff never told you YouTube video on Canadian thanksgiving foods and all of their traditional thanksgiving foods are the same as our traditional thanksgiving foods because the British loyalists post seventeen seventy six high yield it out of the United States took their pumpkins and turkeys and squashes. With them up to Canada, and sort of disseminated those traditions, although I'm sure Canadians. I'm not saying that you are copycatting us. I'm just saying that it thanksgiving is an interesting tradition that is shared across the border because of our puritan roots. Yeah. Exactly, exactly. And over the history kitchen, Tori, av gives us some more information into hails ideal thanksgiving, and what those foods those ritualistic foods that we eat every year would have been like back in day. And the answer is not unlike what they are today. There's that scene that we referenced in her novel northwood about their thanksgiving celebration and HALE wrote the roasted Turkey took precedence on this occasion being placed at the head of the table. And welded it become it's lordly station. Sending all the rich ODA. It's savory stuffing and finally covered with the frost of baking. Oh, sounds wonderful. Well. L and vegetarian vegan listeners. Plug your ears for a second. Because hails idea of thanksgiving was really a meets giving. Yes, she advocated not only serving the Turkey. But you also have to toss out a sirloin of beef a leg of port. And of course, a joint of mutton. Well, you know, this is good news for a friend of mine who is distraught because her brother host thanksgiving, and he prefers standing rib roast. And she's like that is not that is not thanksgiving thanksgiving Turkey. We never have Turkey except on thanksgiving. And I suggested, hey, why don't you bring the Turkey from your house, and you can have both. And then it can be a real meets giving and then you can make incredible sandwiches after saturated fat other foods that were suggested for the celebration included wasters soups Turkey, ham, roast beef chicken pie rice potatoes. Cranberries macaroni, pies, cakes fruit and coffee. Yes, please. Yeah. That's more elaborate than my family is. Thanksgiving style. Yeah. We have Turkey and stuffing. We have squash casserole. We have the canned cranberry jelly because my father loves it. And my mother also makes someone out there. Please. Please fill me in on. If your family does this to my mother makes tomato aspic which is tomato jello jello that is made with v eight and vegetables suspended in mid jello. But of course, you calls it tomato aspect because her mother was from Virginia. So is it some kind of regional tradition. I guess well, that's what I wanna find out from listeners because I'm lazy and having Google it. But yeah, it tell me tell you know, if anybody else out there serves that really gross jello every year, I'm trying to think if there my my mom switches up the menu every now and that we have like a list of of traditional thanksgiving items, she'll kinda circulate through each year. And none are as peculiar. Aspic it is peculiar and really only like three people out of twenty eat it. Yeah. But yeah, it's it's passed down from Virginia. That's I I would have never associated aspect with thanksgiving. But hey, that's the great thing about thanksgiving. You can mix it up if you want to write. But in addition, though to hail sort of giving us this bountiful menu for us to enjoy likely. So the top of the puck is she was also responsible for popularizing that story of that first sixteen Twenty-one pilgrim thanksgiving, which did happen that meal did happen. But certainly not in the glorified sense that she put it in because that was also part of her entire propaganda campaign because she was like this is celebrating America. You know? Right. And what's terrifying? And I had no idea about any of this. But within five short years of. Her publishing this romanticised tale. It was included in textbooks textbooks people, and this was just a political meeting between between native Americans and Puritans. You know, being like, hey, what's up? We've got the stuff going on. Here's some squash. It wasn't so much like a let's all sit down and be puppies and rainbows forever. He had the pinola native Americans weren't welcoming everyone with open arms. Oh, yes. Have all of my land. Actually. And for that reason though starting in nineteen seventy thanksgiving became known as Nash the national day of mourning to the United American Indians of New England. So that's that's the dark side of thanksgiving that we often don't talk about so much as we are feasting on our food is that. Yeah. The the celebrator routes do have their darker corners in terms of the land that we did take what we were. Actually, celebrating in terms of you know, right? Taking over a spot that wasn't ours. Well, you know, the great thing about thanksgiving being scheduled on a Thursday. You know, you're like why why Thursday? Well, you know, it's just it's just so great for us. Kristen as as women who were often in the kitchen in eighteen seventy six hail rights should not the women of America have one festival and who's rejoicing they can fully participate. So basically having thanksgiving on a Thursday is the most convenient day because women can prepare this feast all leading up to thanksgiving on a Thursday. And then get right back in the kitchen and have everything ready for Sunday dinner. Well, HALE was trying to do women, a solid she I think she she had altruistic motives for wanting women to be able to really. Get involved with this holiday, showcase our talents as not just cooks. But also as nurturers, and she talked about how a successful meal was meant to stand in tribute to the quote, unquote, artistry of the housewife who would probably have the power to serve a lovely dinner. Even in the midst of a forest, I'll have to tell my mother this. You know, when I when I go home for thanksgiving. And just be like, you know, your artistry the Butterball that you have thought in the bathtub, which is also its own annual ritual. I what I've been to some thanks giving feasts that are certainly artistry. But one thing I was surprised to not find in the follow up research to this aspect of thanksgiving. Which is how it was kind of engineers to have women cooking were today's statistics on the time women spend in the kitchen, the percentage of women who are responsible for thanksgiving meals. And there was nothing. I could find about that. I guess just because it's. The assumption that will do it. Maybe I don't know. I am terrified of ever having to take over thanksgiving because that just seems like so much. I mean, my mother is exhausted. By the time dinner is served. My mom also exhausts herself as well. But I feel like she really enjoys it. My mom, certainly embraces more of the Saroj Asifa hail aspect of thanksgiving. Where it does showcase. Her capabilities in the kitchen, which are very good and delicious. And I I've hosted my parents before though for thanksgiving, and it was a frenzied morning. I'll tell you that. Yeah. Trying to get all those casseroles ready at the same time is a challenge. It is a challenge and I still never cooked a Turkey. Oh, well, actually, one of my favorite stories that my mother tells every year at thanksgiving is the first thanksgiving that she and my father had after they were married and his parents came down for it. And my father's mother. Wasn't opinionated lady. Just put it that way. And she demanded that my mother tent the bird tent the bird and put a tin foil tent over the Turkey for the entirety of its roasting. Which if if you've done any recent reading on cooking Turkey, you know, that it's good to put it on like the last five or ten minutes to really make the skin all crispy in wonderful. Yeah. So after the bird have been done cooking for having cooking for like what six hours or some crazy number. It was white. It was a white lukewarm kind of disgusting looking Butterball. And so what did she do? How did she say thanksgiving? You have to rip that ten off. My godmother was like Sally Ripa ten off. Take get rid of the tent. And so yeah, thanksgiving was saved by like cooking it for just a little while longer to make it Brown up a little it's I mean thinking about how this day. Started with one woman's thirty eight year campaign for it is incredible is kind of incredible. So we're so passionate about us having a national thanksgiving that she went on for a bulk of her life. Yeah. But we're doing it wrong. I mean, I think if if Sarah just a hail were around I think she would not be so pleased with the fact that we are worshiping in front of the football game on TV as opposed to spending the day in church and then feasting. Yeah. And she certainly would not like the most recent developments of some stores now opening thanksgiving night. So we can get started on our holiday shopping that stresses me out just even thinking about let's not think about it. What we need to think about Carolinas. The fact that it is a day of feasting and also this year a day of your birth celebration. So everybody Email Caroline's and happy birthday tidings posted on our face. Facebook tweet us. Mom, seven discovery dot com. Is where you can Email us and share your thanksgiving stories with us. We hope that everyone listening at least in the United States sorry for international listeners. I realize it's not your thanksgiving. But I hope this was entertaining. And we would love to hear whatever tradition. You have for giving. Thanks, celebrating a day, hopefully with family and friends or just eating a Turkey sandwich by yourself and watching Netflix, which also sounds nice whole let us know what you're doing for the day. Mom's seven discovery dot com. Is where you can Email us. You can also tweet us at mom stuff podcast or find us on Facebook. And we have a couple of messages to share with you when we come right back from a quick break. This episode Stefan never told you is brought to you by four hers dot com for hers dot com is the new women's wellness brand, delivering prescription skin care products, customized for you straight to your door for hers dot com connects you online with licensed doctors who can prescribe you the proper prescription products customized for you delivered straight to your door. It's easy. It's convenient no more taking time out of your day. For yet. Another in-person doctor appointment or a long pharmacy line hers is dedicated to supporting women at all stages of life. So that our skin concerns can become a no-brainer. It's super convenient and inexpensive. So you won't break the Bank, our listeners get a trial month of the customize acne kit from hers for twenty dollars off right now while supplies last. Check out their website for full details. This would cost hundreds if you went to the doctor or a pharmacy. Go to four hers dot com slash mom. Steph twenty. That's F O R H E R, S dot com slash mom stuff. Twenty four hers slash mom stuff. Twenty. And now back to our letters. Well, I'm gonna Email here from Brandon in response to podcasts a little while ago about women and true crime. So he wanted to toss in his two cents as well. He says I do have to be contradictory on one point as I understood it near the end of the episode. You seem to imply that most true crime shows depict a crime perpetrated by a stranger. I feel like it's exactly the opposite. I don't have the number by any means. But my instinct is that the majority of shows depict crime within a family to the point that I've sometimes turned off episode. Is it starts because it sounds like yet. Another husband murderers wife, or vice versa case, the ones that are more random stick out more in my mind because they seem more rare. And because I tend to be a little more interested in them. I have this probably arrogant idea that I would be able to tell him a friend or family member was so unstable as to be a risk before anything happened. But I can't do anything to intimidate a random crime. Again, all this is based on my instinctive reaction from years of random true crime viewing. So not nearly scientific one thing. I am curious about did you find any thoughts or statistics about the popularity of unsolved crimes? Those have always been the most fascinating to me the open question. And clearly there's been a mock market for it was shows like unsolved mysteries. But it doesn't offer the same sense of closure, and we didn't see any unsolved mystery statistics. Although that shows scared the poop out of me as a kid my instinct would be that it's not as popular as true crime. Because it does seem like a lot of the attraction there is seeing the person come to Justice. I think it might be a slightly different audience. Yeah. Yeah. Not like unsolved mysteries either. Well, there's always missed like I said that up. Why is there always fog? Anyway, I have a letter here from Mari talking about our diamond engagement ring episode. Owed. She says I got engaged last year. My fiance was smart enough to ask about my ring. Preferences since learning about blood diamonds a few years back. I've been set on fire engagement ring, excluding diamonds if at all possible, unfortunately, you wouldn't believe how hard it is to find loose sapphires that can be turned in to traditional type engagement rings. We are fortunate to be living in Los Angeles. Where there is a huge jewelry in gem district. However, despite the thousands of gem dealers in the area, we've found only a few that had loose sapphires. Luckily, we found a gym of shove that has thousands of sapphires and we were able to find just the right color and shape. She says sapphires coming almost every color and shape naturally having chosen the right sapphire. I waited for my soon to be betrothed to propose but in this waiting period. I experienced a fear and panic I didn't expect what if people shunned by non diamond engagement ring. What if I was skipping out on the traditional engagement ring? And would regret it later. Fortunately, once I saw the ring all those fears dissipated looking. Back. Now, I see that those fears were born of the exact social pressures that you two were discussing and your podcast. I'm glad I didn't let society changed my mind because I absolutely love my one of a kind sapphire engagement ring, and I get compliments on it. All the time Herath for originality and pushing the social norms and Mari. My mother also has a sapphire engagement rings slash wedding ring. But she has diamonds on her, Stu. But so anyway, thank you for the awesome story, and congratulations on the awesome ring and the wedding rings sounds gorgeous. And thanks everybody who's written in mom's stuff discovery dot com where you can Email us. You can follow us on Twitter at mom stuff podcast. Find us on Facebook. Don't forget to like us, and we are on Instagram as well it stuff. Mom, never told you and also on tumbler stuff. Mom, never told you dot com ler dot com and don't forget that you can watch us. If you're on thanksgiving holiday. Well, you got plenty of time. Time to watch all of our one hundred plus videos over a YouTube dot com slash stuff. Mom, never told you. And don't forget to subscribe. For more on this and thousands of other topics. Visit how stuff works dot com. I'm Jeff Rosenthal. Co founder of summit a thought leadership community and ideas festival, and I have a new podcast called art of the hustle. We'll be breaking down how the world's most fascinating successful. People have hustled their way to the top with guests like Arlit Hamilton. When you're in America. It's just you you're running you're running your body's giving out. But every once in a while a hand will stick out in hand you a couple of water. And that's what the experience was like for me because I don't think anybody is self made, and Tim Ferriss I will try to find a handful of things that most exciting, and then I will test those for some degree of five. But I will not just through my head to the sky and rely on the wisdom of the crowd to come up with what I should do if my life. Episodes drop every Wednesday. So subscribe now on apple podcasts or least on the iheartradio app or anywhere else. You find podcasts.
Interview with Kristen Gallagher: Adding Value with Onboarding
"Hello everyone and welcome to the three x value growth. podcast my my name is Kerry sauce. I'm value growth advisor to the Middle Market and author of the book. Multiply your business value in three steps. I I come to you as always from New Hampshire and because of that I start with a piece of New Hampshire Trivia and today's piece of Trivia has to do with the poem we all learned before we even went went to school. Mary had a little lamb. Will the author is Sarah Josefa. She was an author and journalist in Newport. Report New Hampshire and she wrote the poem. Mary had a little lamb in eighteen thirty. So that's my trivia about New Hampshire. Today I am joined by Kristen Gallagher. Welcome Kristen Hi Carrie. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure to have you. Where are you calling in from today today? I'm actually calling in from from Santa Fe New Mexico I'm on my annual business planning strategy retreat but normally. I'm based in Portland Oregon. Oh big difference yes yeah well. Thank you again Chris for joining us. It's a real pleasure to have you for people who don't know Kristen. Let me give you a little bit about her background. Kristen Gallagher Gallagher is an organizational strategy and learning designer. She's the founder and CEO of edify a consultancy that builds technical onboard in in programs for high growth teams. She brings over a decade of management organizational development to edify she has architect and delivered on boarding programs for companies ranging in growth from one to over one hundred people per quarter in just one office to over thirteen global offices and for fully onsite to fully remote teams what Arrange Gallagher frequently speaks and writes on the topics of on boarding change management and team communication. Welcome again kristen. Gallagher drink you so much carrying titled for Today's seven question interview is adding adding value with on Boarding Kristen. Are you ready to do that. In seven minutes I'm ready. I'll be brief number one. Who is your ideal client so my ideal client is a team usually led by a technical team later a vice president of engineering or so director of engineering at a mid it size technology you're able company and for those companies? What problem are you solving these businesses? We help them increase their retention. Attention of new hires and decrease their attrition and also increase their time to productivity. So that people get ramped up faster for their technical new hires. That's huge. Definitely my third question. What are the typical symptoms of that problem? That you see business owners experiencing or that they're talking about. I think the biggest problem that people talk about is the pain with on morning so it's really challenging for managers who are managing variety of people in a variety of projects to to bring on people quickly into actually share the right kind of knowledge. The right way. And it's really painful for the existing team to basically have to on more that person Jason with our plan and it takes a lot of time for the new hire so that new hires also experiencing a lot of frustration. Absolutely not a good way for somebody to start with your company so with the fourth question. Then what are the most common mistakes that you see them making when they try to solve this on their own. I see see people try to lean on very basic checklist or a C.. People try to lean on HR corporate on boarding and the problem that we saw this very a specific to the department on the team or the technical layer of a person's job so you may get company on boarding but you also need department team. I'm on boarding. That's specific to your job. And so the mistake I see. The most is when people believe that they have a corporate on boarding program that will solve all of those problems for them or they just rely on a really basic checklist of. Here's the people should meet. Here are the things you should read. That's just not enough. That's a huge gap that they're not covering they just assume that it's going to happen by Moses definitely so my fifth question is in this situation. What's one valuable action you can recommend to our audience listeners? That they can implement that actually will help them increase this on boarding which is adding value directly to the company. Exactly so I think the most valuable action. Probably the easiest as the very next time that you haven't you hire joining your company. You actually ask them to pay attention to what's missing and and have them create a list of what kinds of information and knowledge they needed or wish that they had to make their morning better than you used that new hire to write that documentation are together that from subject matter experts. That's so simple and yet. It's so so doable. Definitely so the six question building on on that. What's one valuable free resource that you can direct people to that action? We'll help them even further in solving that problem. Yep so I write a lot on on NEOM and if you go to medium dot com and find Kristen Maeve K. R. I s. t. m. a. e. you'll find a blog post that I wrote called called. Mvp On boarding for the ninety seven percent of startups. Have none and it no. That's quite a lot of people. Don't organizations that don't have on boarding in there. There is a link to a free on learning plan that you can make a copy of the document we can make a copy of it and use it as much as you like. That's gold thank you. That's a great resource so with all your years of experience. What's one question that I should've asked you that? I didn't that would add great value for our our listeners. And please provide the answer. I think probably the question that I always wish I would get asked is how do I help my managers onboard better and the reason. I think that's the most important question in on morning actually is that if a manager is on boarded well then they are not going to be able to on the rest of their team well and they're not going to be able to manage their team while and the answer to that question. How should I manage the on boarding of my own? Managers better is by going around to the rest of the managers in your company similar with the tip. I offered with new. Hires figuring out what they needed when they got started making that checklist for yourself us and then as you think about the kinds of tacit knowledge the things that are in your head as a business owner. What kinds of things does the manager? Not Know that you know about the rooks. They learning the ropes part and write those things into the checklist. So I think that's a really important question and pretty easy answer as well. It's straightforward Florida's. Just a matter of go back and do that with those people. Terrific very terrific. Thank you so much. Kristen Gallagher for giving me this interview for the three x value growth. PODCAST CAST. Thank you for your time today. So welcome thank you. Thanks for checking out the three x value growth. podcast if you like what we're doing here head over to items subscribe leave us a review or rate us. It's very much appreciate it. And if you'd like to learn more about the three x value growth model we'll go to W._W._w.. Three X VALUE DOT com forward slash modeled for the P._D._f..
An invitation from President Lincoln: How thanksgiving makes us well
"This is the daily article podcast published by the denison forum or culture changing christians to receive the daily article directly to your email inbox. Week day morning. Visit the daily article dot com. Now here's today's news discerned differently. A seventy four year old magazine editor named sarah josefa hale wrote a letter to president abraham lincoln on september twenty eighth eighteen sixty three urging him to have the day of our annual thanksgiving made a national in fixed union festival. The united states had held such observances sporadically across our history beginning with a proclamation by president george washington on october third. Seventeen eighty nine however each state scheduled. Its own thanksgiving holiday at different times of all the years to proclaim a unified thanksgiving observance. Eighteen sixty three would seem to be the least likely. The civil war was raging by far the bloodiest conflict. In our nation's history the battle of gettysburg had been waged less than three months earlier. The costliest battle ever fought on american soil nonetheless. President lincoln agreed to this request issuing a proclamation on october third of that year in which he invited my fellow citizens in every part of the united states and also those who are at sea and those who are sojourn in foreign lands to set apart and observe the last thursday of november. Next as a day of thanksgiving and praise to our beneficent father who dwell with in the heavens. If americans could observe thanksgiving in the midst of the civil war. Surely you and i can do the same day. Thanksgiving in twenty twenty of conflicting emotions as we are grateful for many blessings and yet surrounded by andy especially with a raging pandemic. And yet the harder it is to give. Thanks the more we need. What thanksgiving produces in our souls. Do you remember. the ten. Lepers were healed by jesus. In luke seventeen sixteen. We read that. Only one of them fell on his face at jesus's feet giving him thanks. Our lord said to him rise in go your way. Your faith has made you well. The word well translates greek word that means to be rescued. Healed or saved speaks to the totality of salvation. In every dimension of life the other nine were healed physically but only this man experienced spiritual healing his act gratitude did not earn such grace with by definition cannot be merited only received rather it positioned him to experience what jesus would have given all ten of the lepers if they had done with. This man did. Would you take time today to consider all the ways. God has healed. You think about your physical life a gift. You did not earn or create. Consider this day a gift. You could not produce reflect on the god-given capacities and opportunities by which you have worked for what you possess pause to think about those who love you that you deserve now. Shift your gaze from the present to the eternal consider that you would spend eternity separated from god in hell except that jesus died on your cross in your place to pay the debt for your sins and purchase your salvation. Celebrate the fact that your life and your eternal life are gifts. Your father chose to give you by his grace in light of all that he has given you. Would you take time today to fall at jesus's feet giving him thanks tony. O'brien was reporter for life. Magazine in nineteen eighty nine sent to cover the fall of kabul the capital of afghanistan. He found himself in the midst of a brutal civil war and was thrown into an afghan prison by soviet-backed security forces during this horrific ordeal o'brien shared a cell with the shiite muslim. The two men struck up a wonderful friendship as ali provided constant encouragement. And hope. for o'brien eventually. The reporter was released and returned to his new mexico home three years later. O'brien found himself once again on a plane bound for kabul. He explained his purpose for returning in an article in the august. Nineteen ninety two issue of life. The last time. I saw nadir ali. He was behind bars. Watching me walk to freedom. I never thought i would see him again. Never thought i would go back to afghanistan but now i am on a plane returning to the place. I spent the most terrifying weeks of my life. He is a man. I need to thank. I have thanked everyone else. Those who got me out of prison. Who called my mother every day yet. I never thank the person who gave me the strength to live. Afghanistan is free now. But i am not for days tony. O'brien searched a city of one point. Five million people until he found nadir ali and thanked him only then was he. Free and whole we'll thanksgiving make you well today. Would you consider sharing this podcast with a friend family member or co worker in order to help build a community of culture changing christians. Thank you for listening to the daily article podcast today.
History of Thanksgiving
"Welcome to bedtime history. Hello this is brek. A shoutout to our newest donors elliott and alex from san francisco. Thank you so much for the generous donation. If you'd like to help the podcast grow and donate to bedtime. History go to bedtime history. Stories dot com and click on donate and the menu to donate via patriot on a big thanks to marley. And georgie from australia. And charlie from fiji for the kind reviews leaving a review on your favorite podcast. App is easy and help others find out about bedtime history now onto our episode. Imagine yourself sitting around a large bonfire. The year is sixteen. Twenty one and you have spent the last year traveling from europe to america on a boat. The journey was very hard when your family arrived in the new world. You face very hard winter. He lived on the boat through the winter together with other passengers. It was extremely cold and there was not much to eat. But all of that has changed as you sit waiting. You see that people are cooking up a huge feast. You smell the cooking meat and vegetables. It makes your mouth water. The cooks include people from europe that you were on the boat with and native americans who've come to celebrate with you. It's the first thanksgiving celebration in america and you are ready to eat. Thanksgiving day is a national holiday in the united states and other countries. But how did this holiday begin. Where did it start and why the story starts sixteen twenty. When a small ship named the mayflower left from england onboard. Were a one hundred and two passengers. They were all people from different religions. That were feeling unwelcome in europe. They wanted to leave to find a new home where they could practice their religion freely. There were also people on board. Who were excited about the idea of buying land. Which they couldn't afford in europe they hope to find a new life and become wealthy in the new world. The mayflower made a long and difficult journey across the atlantic ocean. That lasted sixty six days. Eventually they landed at cape cod. This was much further north than where they had hoped to land which was at the mouth of the hudson river. One month later the mayflower travel to massachusetts bay and the travelers disembarked or arrived. In came ashore they decided to settle or make a home in the area and they began building village which is now called plymouth. The people who started building the settlement we're called. Pilgrims pilgrim means it traveler or settler in a new land the pilgrims in plymouth did not have time to build houses to live in before the first winter came the winter was very cold and harsh so most of the pilgrims remained on the mayflower ship for the winter. They were hungry and cold living on the ship. Many people develop scurvy. Which happens when you don't eat enough fruits or vegetables. Many also caught diseases that spread easily amongst the crowded living conditions by the end of the winter. Only half of the mayflower one hundred and two original passengers were still alive. That's spring in march. Sixteen twenty one. The people who are still alive moved off the boat onto shore to start building their homes. While they were settling onshore an albuquerque native american came and greeted them in english. Everyone was shocked to see that he was friendly and that he spoke english a few days later he returned with another native american man named squad years before squander had been kidnapped by englishman and was brought to england but he later returned to america and canal speak. English squad became friends with the pilgrims and could see that they needed. Help the small group of fifty or so people were all week and starving and many of them were ill. Squad felt bad for them so he taught the pilgrims how to grow corn how to fish in the rivers and how to extract sap from maple trees squad toe also helped the pilgrim settlers to form an alliance with the local native tribe No ag an alliance is a bond or union between two groups that pledged to support each other later that year. In the fall of sixteen twenty one the pilgrims first corn harvest was successful. They had an abundance of corn or able to eat the governor of the group. William bradford organized a feast to celebrate the harvest he invited all the pilgrims in the community and their native american allies including the womp chief mass associate. The feast lasted for three days while no one wrote down. Exactly what the eight we do know that it was an amazing feast for the time and likely included chicken dear corn lobster seal shellfish and possibly turkey. This feast is now remembered. As america's first thanksgiving the pilgrims likely didn't call it that they wouldn't have known that this feast would turn into a holiday. They also played games and had fun during the three days with their guests. They considered the celebration away to give. Thanks to god nature for the harvest and alliance with No egg the dishes that the pilgrims prepared or likely made a traditional native american spices and cooking methods. The pilgrims didn't have an oven and the sugar supply. The mayflower had run out before the fall of sixteen twenty one. The meal did not include pies cakes or desserts but the people were happy to have a harvest meal and a party and we're happy that their nutrition and health had improved compared to last year and mostly that they were still alive. That's a lot to be thankful for. The pilgrims held their second thanksgiving celebration. In the fall of sixteen twenty three and the two years between there had been a long drought. A drought is a long period of time in which it doesn't rain so everything dries up or doesn't grow. Because of the drought there had been no harvest in the fall of sixteen. Twenty two and people were very hungry in sixteen twenty three. The farming had been good again and they all celebrate it as they had before the practice of fasting or not eating for a period of time followed by having a large thanksgiving celebration and started to become common practice. And other new england settlements. Outside of plymouth as well later during the american revolution the government designated a couple of days of thanksgiving a year and seventeen eighty nine. George washington issued the first thanksgiving proclamation in his speech. He asked americans to show that they're grateful for the happy ending. The war of independence that they had just one and the new constitution or written framework for the country's rules structure in order other presidents after george washington also designated a couple of days of thanksgiving to remember these events in eighteen. Seventeen new york became the first state to have an official thanksgiving holiday after that other states started adopting their own thanksgiving holiday with each one being celebrated on a different day however the tradition hadn't spread to the south and most southern states didn't hear about thanksgiving for a long time. One woman decided she wanted to change this. She wanted to make thanksgiving a national holiday. Her name was sarah josefa. Hell she was a writer and wrote many articles and books and even wrote the song. Mary had a little lamb. Sarah started a campaign to make thanksgiving a national holiday and she worked on this for thirty six years. A campaign is a planned effort to make something happen or change. She published articles in newspapers and sent letters to politicians. Eventually her efforts paid off. When abraham lincoln declared thanksgiving a national holiday in eighteen sixty three he scheduled it to be celebrated on the final thursday in november. Sarah was then known. Ever after as the mother of thanksgiving thanksgiving was celebrated annually or once a here and on this day until nineteen thirty nine president. Franklin d roosevelt moved the holiday up a week in order to help stores make money during the great depression however people didn't like the change and so he moved it back to the original date in nineteen forty one. Although the original thanksgiving celebrations were to celebrate the end of the american war of independence and the new constitution. Modern american thanksgiving is quite different. Now the celebration center on cooking turkey and sharing a large meal with family and friends while turkeys are the main dish at most american households. Thanksgiving it may not have actually been on the menu for the pilgrims first thanksgiving today. More than ninety percent of americans eat turkey on thanksgiving and there are many different ways that people prepare it most like to cook it in the oven but some people deep fry it or smoke it or find a variety of other ways to make the turkey new and interesting other traditional food than americans eat up. This holiday includes stuffing or dressing mashed potatoes yams cranberry sauce and pumpkin pie. These are all foods that are in season for that time of year. Another common tradition at thanksgiving is volunteering. Many people spend thanksgiving day doing volunteer activities in their communities. This includes holding. Food drives to click food for the poor or hosting free dinners for people who are struggling. Parades have also become an important part of the thanksgiving holiday in cities and towns throughout the united states. one of the largest and most famous is the macy's department store parade in new york city. This parade started in nineteen twenty four and was created to give businesses a chance to celebrate the holiday and advertise their store at the same time today. Many americans tune in on tv to watch the parade thanksgiving. The parade follows a two and a half mile route and features marching bands. Performers floats and giant balloons. Even though thanksgiving is a modern american tradition there are similar annual celebrations of harvest. That take place all over the world and throughout history in ancient times egyptians greeks and romans all held large fees to say thank you to their gods. After the fall harvest. Thanksgiving also has a lot in common with the ancient jewish holocaust festival of sue coat. A native americans have a long tradition of celebrating fall harvest with these parties. These traditions are older than the american thanksgiving in sixteen. Twenty one so may have had an influence on the idea of holding a feast. Does your family celebrate thanksgiving if so. What are some of your favorite family traditions when you eat your holiday meal this year. Think about the first. American thanksgiving at plymouth. How do you think that would have been different. What are some of the things that you are thankful for this year. However you plan to celebrate we bedtime history. Wish you a very happy thanksgiving.
President Trump Punts on Saudi Arabia
"Welcome back is Barada a podcast takes just ten minutes to get you smarter on the collision of tech business and politics. I'm Denver MAC on today's show. Mark Zuckerberg says he isn't going anywhere and something to remember during your thanksgiving dinner, the first President Trump punts on Saudi Arabia as you've almost certainly heard by now Trump yesterday issued a two page statement on the murder of journalist Jamal kashogi by Saudi officials and the bottom line. He refuses to accept the as reported conclusion that Saudi Crown prince Mohammad bin salon was most likely aware of the plot. And even if such incontrovertible proof does of actually emerge. It's not important enough to risk America's alliance or arms deals with the kingdom. It was a callously constructed statement that horrified a lot of people, including several Republican senators, but was exactly the message that a lot of US business leaders had been waiting for. So here's what I mean, you probably remember how Saudi Arabia hosted a huge investment conference last month, and that tons of big name CEOs, basically boycotted, including the heads of companies like J P Morgan black rock. And Uber, but a lot of those same CEO's also refused to cut or even amend their actual business arrangements with Saudi arguing that they didn't have all the facts on the kashogi murder, and that in the end, they would basically follow the US government's lead. In other words, we follow the rules. We don't make them. So this was an escape route. It was escape route designed to hold onto Saudis big money devised by CEO's who very loudly disagreed with the White House on other policy matters like climate, change or immigration and Trump yesterday paved that escape route for them and wave them through. So here's where we're at while there will continue to be investigations into what happened to Jamal kashogi. It's case closed for both President Trump and corporate America in fifteen seconds. We'll go deeper on this with axios national political reporter Jonathan swan. But first this axios gives you the news and analysis you need to get smarter faster on the most important topics in our unique smart, brevity format. We cover topics from politics. To science and media to tech subscribed to get smarter faster at sign-up dot axios dot com and now back to the program podcast joined now by axios national political reporter Jonathan swan who actually wrote about the situation back on Sunday. Jonathan does Trump not believe the CIA conclusion or does he just not care? He doesn't care the statement. He put out yesterday believe it or not was actually asinine tweet that I saw was Shantou ran poll saying, oh, this looks like it was written by John Balsam. You know, he's always trying to pin things on the boss and neo-con sort of wing of the White House. He stayed it was pure Trump and actually was a satisfied. So of what Trump really believes what Trump relate believes is what we reported on Sunday, which actually shadowed this statement, quite well, Trump thought it was ridiculous. And was saying privately to go to ridiculous that so much. International. Attention was being focused on one guy being the journalist alka Showkey who was muddied brutally inside the embassy by the Saudis. Trump never really privately according to people who've spoken to him sort of got into. Oh, did they know they know his his posture was will maybe they did. But whether they did not he wasn't ever going to any fundamental way alter the US relationship with Saudi Arabia Trump's view, and what he was saying all is enjoy saying he goes look around the world that, you know, president Xi in China doing brutal things it's a tough world out that brutal. Everyone's brutal while we, you know, pay so much attention to this one thing. So that was how Trump beauty all. And that statement yesterday, if anything is a sanitized version of what Trump really believes, he it's interesting, you say that Trump's history over the last couple years, of course, has been when it comes. Allies. And he obviously believes Saudi Arabia's one that was kind of a big piece of the statement yesterday. He's actually been very willing and actually almost seemingly eager to be very tough on allies in the past. Why in this particular situation is not willing to hold the Saudis feet to the fire? Like he would. I mean, if this was France, you'd think he'd be demanding parades, you know, supporting sanctions against France. Right. They've obviously unknowable which is whatever outside the realm of government. Had been speculation about Trump's you know, the fact that he does have Saudis investing in news department things like that. I I have no idea what that had any bearing on his feelings toward Saudi Arabia. But I can just tell you what he says to his aides privately Trump's views the Saudis in very positive live. The one main reason which is they spending a fortune buying U S weapons and Trump is very proud of that arms deal that he did with the Saudis early last year was his first foreign trip to was to Riyadh and they did they rolled out the red carpet the way Trump views countries, like France, Germany, traditional allies is he doesn't do them in the context of the post World War Two relationship and the history of the allied. He used them at particularly European at the collection of countries that oh America money. You saw yesterday. After Trump statement, you saw obviously a lot of political rhetoric against Trump statement, not only by. Democrats, but also by bunch of Republican senators, I mean, you mentioned rand Paul, but Lindsey Graham Bob corker at cetera. Is there any reason to believe that Republicans in the Senate in the lame? Duck session will actually take some sort of action against Saudi Arabia over Trump's wishes. I think is some reason to believe because they still is a rump of Republicans in the Senate who hold these traditional far policy views values based views views of America as a beacon and a horrified by the statement, but caucus certainly in that camp, and this always the Democrats who share that you. So this certainly potential for it. I haven't seen any great appetite from the majority leader Mitch McConnell to get into this vice and knowing his priority. Mitch McConnell is squarely focused on consuming as many judges as as humanly possible, and he's already. Kind of stymying to some extent Trump's wishes on criminal Justice reform because he doesn't want to suck up any flaw time. He wants to use every bit of full time to get his judicial nominees through. So I wouldn't be surprised to sort of ground swell on the hill. But I'd be surprised if Mitch McConnell lips of thing to help it happen within that caucus that kind of rump of traditional GOP foreign policy feeling how should we think about what this ultimately means for the CIA and the people who were kind of told, hey, go find out what happened? They find out what happened and the response from basically from their boss or their bosses bosses. Yeah. Thanks for that. I don't care. Well, it's the first time, you know, this is now a passion I was in the room with Trump and pollution in Helsinki at that press conference when the president stood and credited Pusan's denial over the findings the consensus findings of the US intelligence community. So it's not like this is some aber into vent that. Never happened before. This is a Pathan either cover the CIA. So I haven't spoken to rank and file CIA operative. So I could only speculate, but there's certainly been reporting and other outlets that US intelligence professionals of very discouraged by by what's going on. And you can understand what absolutely doesn't thank you so much and have a good thanksgiving tonight. Thanks Jonathan swan national political reporter for axios. My final two right after this access chief technology correspondent Dana free shares. Breaking news and analysis on the most consequential companies and players tech from the valley to DC subscribed to get smarter faster at sign up dot axios dot com and now back to the program podcasts. Now for my final two. And I up is Mark Zuckerberg who last night fired back at Facebook's critics in an interview with CNN a lot of the criticism around the biggest issues has been fair. But I do think that if we're going to be real there is this bigger picture as well. Which is that we have a different worldview than than some of the folks who who are covering this Zuckerberg was in word defiant, and that included when it came to a question about whether he'd be willing to step down as chairman Facebook a role that he holds in addition to being CEO, he's said, no, he's not going anywhere, which means we should expect the critics to begin digging in even deeper and finally something to consider in the context of increased political polarization, and our fears that they may rear their ugly heads during tomorrow's thanksgiving feast. So we all know, the basic story of the first thanksgiving between the pilgrims and the native Americans of Plymouth, Massachusetts. But the actual holiday owes its existence to ABRAHAM LINCOLN centuries later, but the urging of a magazine editor named Sarah Josefa. Hale Lincoln, turn thanksgiving from a small event celebrated at different times in different regions into a national holiday believing that the country in the midst of civil war needed what he called a day apart, basically one day leave our differences at the door. And celebrate what binds us rather than what divides us, and we're done. Thanks for listening and to my producers, Adam Grassi and Tim show. Vers have great national jukebox day yet. It's not thanksgiving quite yet. And we'll be back on Monday with another pro rata podcast.
Our Shifting Views Of Older Women Throughout American History
"Give online at Diane ream dot org slash donate thanks so much for your support Hi I'm Alison Brody and I'm Rebecca Kaufman we're the producers behind the on my mind podcast here to remind you that support from listeners just like you makes the show possible enlarge personalities but then when movies came in you wanted young young young young women with no wrinkles whatsoever and the you start out in colonial days talk about that I came as I was writing the book no stopping us now was about Moore mothers whose children have grown and gone away and the Colonia women created so much of the wealth for the family they lived on farms they did be an older woman society has not always looked so kindly on our demographic in fact who we can all if older women have serious economic role in society then they're looked at much differently than if they're just perceived as for history she joins me in studio on Monday how women have been taught by society has really changed over the centuries and it is Ruth Bader Ginsburg I'm eighty three and doing is podcast but if now is a good time what happened to women older women over American history with things happened and I came to think well the bottom line a lot of it is what is their economic today it seems certain hr a having Almond Think House Speaker Nancy Pelosi or Supreme Court just very first time the idea of a youth market and they were focusing everything on how to convince young people especially the flappers the young women of moment you know to buy their stuff the flappers became the stars of society and movies came in when you head theater sort of older large explorers why in her new book titled Knows Stopping Us Now the adventures have older women in American move into the nineteen forties you move into where women are not only important they are absolutely on through times what it wasn't so you look at say the nineteen twenties which was when advertisers discovered for the very all of the candle making and butter churning and read making whatever in young women wanted to come and hang out with them because they wanted to learn how to do those things for their own family hill is she was playing marbles with her friends behind the pageant but that was the idea of what a perfect woman was at that point but they you who had children really really resisted the idea of going to work at that time so the need for older women to show up and go to work was just in supposed to be young couples who are married creating a new family and there were lots of magazine articles warning people against letting their mothers move in with them under any circumstances arise has older and how it shifted over time your times off it count as gay oh come on hence and suddenly you have you not only had rosie the riveter song she were celebrations of Josephine the eighty year old riveter making ball womanly virtues which would involve staying home never getting involved in the outside world she herself continued to work until she was in her eighties she they married so it was a good time to be older actually a good time to be older and yet the country as you point out has gone the women enjoyed it as much as the magazine writers liked pretend they did but any job they needed desperately women to any job there was and so even up claiming she only worked because her husband had died and it was an emergency to feed her poor starving children but the poor starving youngest child was fifty years old and she has done their writing s Sarah and it's a perfect example of when the economy needs you then then you're popular not only were men all gone to war but younger women but She her vision of how you celebrate women was simply to celebrate the woman at home woman at home having her babies the glorified housewife nothing is uh-huh and bombers down in down south and in women celebrations of women carrying trays and restaurants when they're sixty five years old I mean I'm not sure that a act this way and it was supposed to be a celebration but was also part of the great cosmic pudding women in a kind of a particular the first one who produced all these ideal things like how to have your Dream House and what your dream house should entail and what to look like and it was the first time came up with the idea of magazines for women and she pretended that it was it was only just to encourage women to stay home more and that it was to celebrate tale tell us who she was and why she was so important Sarah Hale created magazines she really older women were pardoned absolutely mostly older women because as I said the younger woman who had children did not want to go back to work so it was a desperate need session with being very young just was typified by the fact that the I miss America who was in the nineteen twenties was sixteen years old. I didn't other cage of roles that you can get out boy do I remember the advertisements on television about women next to their Tom Gale so good to have you with US Diana is so good to be here our idea of yeah although you know what I think about the housewife thing too I think about the nineteen thirties the radio soap operas invention of the radio soap operas so ever so it was it was a very big moment for not being old I would say I wanNA take you back to Sarah Josefa more wonderful and glorified than a housewife and that means that anybody who's not being a housewife is sort of useless she vote go these ladies books we're starting to sneak in after a while and you had the creation of the suburbs and this sort of vision of suburb was a place where older people weren't it was really you've got that kind of input from the outside world if you were a housewife but suddenly you head all of these new charms and duties as housewife to look this way forever which basically says don't worry about the age thing we're all going on forever which really violently attacked anybody who didn't think you should be working at the age of eighty aiming news stoves and washing machines and how important it was to use the right detergent yes yes and we can find a way to target them right now and they'll buy stuff from us also then came betty for Dan Betty for Dan came along and Yes yes yes yes yes but didn't she also talk about clothing and how a woman should look she didn't she also talked about the house should look like she was when I know so many women who read that book for them for the first time while I am not alone in these feelings what does this mean it was transformational and she was thirty five for about thirty years you know she'd never got any older and she never got married she never found her perfect suitor along the way sixties and said really spoke to a particular group of women and Women in their thirties basically our home who had gone to college who this was terrible and nothing was ever going to happen again by the time she's sixty five she's going to a disco to celebrate with Oliver Friends for her birthday and she's preparing a book called Feminine None Of Women are using hair coloring of some sort and then it becomes so easy very fast and by the end the government took hair color off passports because the challenges of age was not about feminism and it was not about better exercise it was all about hair coloring and once you could change the color of your hair so that gray did women were very popular as entertainers because you needed to be able to look at them from a long distance away they had a lot of ability to or rate and carry forth and threatening to pass laws against hair coloring because they thought it was an evil plot to trick men into marrying women who were older than they thought they were which was the nuncius thing I think but also stop not season save people from train wrecks and did all kinds of other things so it was a first point I think it which people thought Aha somewhat older women it was just a complete transformation she went from a sixty year old. I'm going to shoot myself I'm turning sixty two a seventy year old saying if I can't work when I'm eighty five I'm going to go down it was it was that that sense that you suddenly had this new thing radio which was supplanting movies to some degree and a radio couldn't carry them around back then during the day they could never quite tell what it was gonna be when you got there it was quick a quick transformation before that back in the day state legislatures kept need that older ribbon stepped right up filled Han after the war that was a bad again you not only had the war in a you had the baby boom we're told this was near perfect life to stay home and have babies and raise them and then we're getting bored out of their release Betty certainly was and she spoke to the s-class play in to this story class plays into everything in one way or another one of the things that I keep celebrating throughout the so her hint influence really lasted for quite some time when she turned sixty she was absolutely suicidal she's let her life was over people like her there were no African American women in the book there were no poor women in the book it was a very narrow vision but it was a vision that expense tone and protest threw out this book no stopping us now is the issue of Hair Berg but that was state legislatures you're sitting across the table from me and you see I have allowed my hair go absolute I mean they become widows they never got married they get divorced and trying to support herself if you're not reasonably well off when you start this titians artists chefs the list goes on you can listen to our podcast on demand by subscribing on your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode out and filed lawsuits to get the right to be promoted who staged protests set their businesses and fought for the things that on my mind and I also hope you're checking out the cogil nom de show we connect the dots between events happening in Washington Maryland and Virginia through conversations with and a half to be there then you could do so many other things and it is true there was like a ten year period than I think it was the seventies when you begin the period seven them and they didn't get the rewards for what they did because by the time they had succeeded they were older they have been stuck in jobs for her new book is titled No Stopping Us now the adventures outlier women in American history how Hi Cochon de here I hope you'll enjoy it recall doing this program that I was doing at the time in the seventies a number of women who had been abused by their husbands who were in very visions of power in the Mike Gale Sunday and the romance of Helen Grant that shows you for a woman of thirty five romance and life need not be over in color hair talking about the importance of haircut owner what my friend used to say that the fact that women is overcome it was a response necessary because suddenly women were everywhere in the workplace and men had not figured out how to adjust to that yet but if if we the rewards where people like me who came in the door then and got all the promotions and all the opportunities that they fought for and I always book the idea of women being able to work later and later and later and have careers in the outside home but then you have to always remember to there are a lot of women who are having for Dan was talking about the right to work to continue to be employed and continue to be promoted throughout your
Remembering the Pilgrims' Journey
"This is John Fuller. Please remember to let us know how you're listening to these programmes on podcast app or website. Almighty god. We thank you for the sustaining grace of your love and provision through our savior Jesus Christ. We thank you for the bounty of fellowship, which allows us to shed in the food. You have given to us maybe would receive with grateful hearts. That prayer is an excerpt from focus on the family's radio theater episode, the legend of s- quantum which captures the spirit and thankful heart of the pilgrims who traveled to North America. Their purpose was to begin a new colony to escape religious persecution and talk a little bit more about that today on our broadcasts. Happy thanksgiving and welcome to focus on the family. Your host is Jim Daly and I'm John Fuller. Johnny notes, so easy and culture to forget, the kind of the origins of these holidays that we celebrate. And you know, we get busy. I'm sure many moms and dads right now are busy dad's got us to do list cleanup stuff before the family gets over. And you know, the cook and the Turkey and doing all those things, and we can't forget, we think thanksgiving is about football and family and pumpkin pie. And that's all good stuff. But what is the true origin of thanksgiving? And it's going to be quite a discussion. We have today when we. He'll back the history the actual history of thanksgiving and remind all of us what it was about. And j mill brand is our guest today. He's a professor at Bethel university in Minnesota. And he really has researched the story he's got a personal interest in it will hear more about that. He's written a great book called they came for freedom. The forgotten epic adventure of the pilgrims. J? Welcome to focus. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Yeah. What a great day to spend a little time together remembering and giving thanks for the founding really the beginning of the nation. And what happened in that in that sense? Absolutely. It's a it's the story of where we came from. Now, let's start there you you have a background in law that which is great. But you also had that connection of family members is that connection part of our family lore was that we were the descendant of two of the Mayflower pilgrims. And so I was pretty interested in this. And you know, kind of what does that mean for me personally? And so it took an issue. Find out who who are they now sort of sort of a discouraging discovery after I went a little deeper because they weren't actually the programs that came for religious purposes that one wasn't indentured servant. The other was the hired mercenary few will to protect them. And unfortunately, they weren't the ones who came on account of their they're still on the shit. But it was still an interesting discovery. And what was that about? And really what I wanted to explore was that religious persecution question. And as a lawyer I wanted to explore what's the evidence that that that took place, and what does that mean for them? And that's what prompted you to write the book is that it that's that curiosity. That's right. And finding that you know, as I went and wanted to learn more about my story reading books on the history of the popes thanksgiving that they mentioned this nugget of there was some religious freedom component to a, but everyone sort of glossed over it and never really gave it gave it any time to explore and let's describe the pilgrims. I mean, some of us again the distant memory distant history. We may have learned about it in fourth or fifth grade who knows when who were the pilgrims. What was it about? Yeah. Well, they were really more probably separatists. They were a group of people that wanted to worship in the way that they read the bible and they saw. They didn't want to worship in the way that was prescribed by the Anglican church. So there this group of people mostly lived in the rural English setting. And what would that prescription just again to set that out? What was it was King James? Yeah. He was authorities the King James bible King James. So what was he doing and decreeing that made them so uncomfortable? They were really using the church that time as a as a way to control people and to tax people. Church services were in the Latin. You couldn't really understand they had a prescribed order of service at prescribers everything was prescribed and mandated. And if you didn't follow what they mandated there was jail time fines and potentially even death. If you didn't comply so in a group of people who said, we actually we're reading the bible, they got hold of the Geneva bible. And it doesn't say what we're being told. You know, we think that there's more to this. There's a personal relationship here in that context. Think about that in that prescription that they were following the leadership of England at the time King James it was mandated that they go to Sunday services. It was mandated that they do certain things during the week all with this kind of a Christian overtone, but coming from the government, that's key to understanding what the founding fathers were later going to do. Right. That's the separation of church and state. They're talking about. And there was no separation. Yeah. Right. Right. I mean, it was very heavy. Right. And that's what they were getting. And when they later created the constitution says that the state would not tell you how to worship that's what they're going after. But getting back to the pilgrims. One of the things that I found fascinating that I didn't know, and we're using today's a little history lesson for all of us both the pilgrims and the Puritans were on the Mayflower. Yeah. Almost uneven numbers. I can't remember exactly thirty-five pilgrims and forty or forty five. What is the difference in those sects? I mean, we talk about Baptist today others, but what what was their differences while the separatists the pilgrims wanted to separate themselves out. There can be different the Puritans wanted to purify the church of England they said, let's work within it. And let's try to get the the bad stuff out of this. Let's so the separatists were really more about separating church and state Pearson's really more about other can work together. But let's let's fight. Now in the end, I think the there was more of a majority of. The separatists in the program today all kind of blended together. But we definitely have these two groups at times they were at odds because they ultimately had the same goal of worshiping in the way that they believed the bible taught them to worship, right? But they had different approaches to how the and that's good to know. I mean, nothing new under the sun threat. Sounds very similar to separate some Christians today. So going back to the pilgrims. They're uncomfortable. They're getting persecuted for their practices their religious practices. They don't immediately say let's go to the new world. They have a different plan. What was and it's interesting 'cause I think we we pick them just taking off right? And so they tried to work within this for a while they tried to see if they could have secret meetings and things in that those all broke up, and they were watched and the government a really close interest in them. So their first objective was hey, let's actually let's leave for mainland Europe. And Holland was a place that was more. Religiously tolerant and this is one of the engine parts of the story. That's overlooked is that this was a really dangerous escape. From England to Holland that they were captured several times on English government trying to escape they were separated. They were both that almost sank in a storm and barely made it out to see to of mainland Europe. Yeah. Yeah. In that context. What were they hoping to find in Holland, I know a bit more eased. But in fact, it didn't go the direction they thought it we what took place in. Well, they came from a rural English said it was very peaceful, and they came to Holland and they found industrial center, they were working in the factories shipping. It was a shipping center. Yeah. And it was hard labor backbreaking. So they really didn't find it was a cultural change for them, and it was difficult. So they started to worry after a while that the religious toleration that happened in England was going to going to happen there. And know the English government is trying to extradite. Some of them are putting pressure on Holland. So you two things happening. You had this religious pressure that they saw the taking place in England might happen here. And then also. The cultural issues that they weren't able to really worship and practice in the way, they they wanted to without that peaceful set and they really wanted to create their own world. Now part of this is that their kids were starting to actually take off and become sailors themselves. This really interesting I want to punch this point. Because in reading the book the idea that they were concerned their kids were salivating into the hall casher. I mean that is a direct parallel today. Yeah. You know, where we may be living in a city or they go to university, and they start to move into more secular thinking you speak to that. I mean again. Yeah. Those parents of that time we're experiencing similar anx that we are today. They were and was it's interesting because they were really concerned. And I think in a lot of ways that was more the motivation to go to North America than anything outlets kids out of this mess. That's right, right. And there's a lot happening in Europe at that time, and they didn't quite know where it was going to go. And so there was an odd. Opportunity to go to a completely new place where they could create a distinct culture and practice that in the way that they wanted to. And so that's what they decided to do as a historian helping picture form in terms of the numbers. What are we looking at here? I have no concept as thousands of people hundreds of people dozens of people that go to Holland and now are thinking, let's go to the. Yeah. Well, it's not as many as you'd think. I mean, you started with just a couple dozen that made that trip to to England they picked up a few people in Holland a few people that came in over time. Just they were there ten years in Holland. So more people that came over from England. And then you have about one hundred that wanna make this journey. One hundred people, and and then they decide we're going to do this. How did they in fact in historical facts? How did they go about planning the trip? What did they have to buy? How did they do? Well, this was really interesting to me is that they they looked around the world. I mean, they didn't just say North America's are spot. They actually go into South America down by the Amazon because they thought hey, warmer climate could plant crops all year. I'm telling you people think exactly the same nothing is new. Yeah. They looked at opportunities to stay in Europe. The they thought about whether they could go back to England. They looked at everything, and you know, eventually they got together. And this is what sort of mind blowing to me is that they knew that a lot of them were going to perish. And they knew that that was the reality of the day that this journey that they would not also provide the journey and in the process, and yet they made that decision to go sort of mind boggling that they were willing to take that risk. That I don't know if we'd be as eager to do that today. Now, some of the students listening. We'll remember that fourth grade class in William Brewster, some others that may have been, you know, distracting one another may not remember him talk about William Brewster who was the what type of man was. He why was he the leader who appointed him? How did he gain kind of control over the pilgrims to give that leadership? Yeah, we had several leaders who really stepped forward and Brewster was one of them. And you get a lot of people. It was a group of people that came a rural setting. And so there were there were few people at Brewster who were really well read. And this is one of the things that also surprised me speak who studied philosophy. They studied political science, and they spend a lot of time thinking about how do we govern a group of people? And how do we how do we transition them to somewhere else? So Brewster was among these several handful of leaders who had some background in leading the church and wanted to. To find a way to lead the government there as well. And so handle people that stepped up and took the reins and move them on this journey. And so they're they're in Holland. They come back to England to pick up the ship's speak to the again, the logistics. I don't feel like I got the answer. I want. Okay. The logistics. They bought two ships. Yeah. Purchasing two ships. I mean, I didn't know that. I thought I was under the impression that they simply paid their, you know, their fair to use the ships to cross, but they actually bought it. And then they didn't buy the Mayflower about the speed. Well, so they've. And so they bought a different ship and that ship had a lot of problems mainly holes. Right. Yeah. It was leaking leaked and to the point where they couldn't make halfway into the ocean. And had to turn back was of that. I mean that would be discouraging. Yeah. I don't know how they have. They got their money back on that one. But they didn't they didn't. So they were taken for a ride essentially they were sold a boat that was improperly equipped and seaworthy. No, no, they come back to England. Then what happens? So they bought they bought the speed while and then they they also took the the Mayflower. And so they they ended up they sell both amount to the ocean came back to mainland England when the speed well was leaking and the transition everyone to the Mayflower now, you some people who decided, hey, we're not going to we don't we don't want to join anymore. They've been out they've gone, probably respectful. I mean, a big. Almost even said, you know, I think this is a sign from the Lord that we shouldn't do that. That's right. That's right. Ship is leaking. Yeah. So they stayed back. They decided to stay back. How many stayed back? About the forty or fifty that ended up staying back or peeling off in different ways. And you know, somebody just decided they wanted to Colin they want to stay in England and other reasons, and so then they crammed everyone into the Mayflower which was now, you know, overfull, and that was part of your problems, and how many people would that be about one hundred and then a few sailors, so just one hundred ten or so, okay. It was packed. And if you get out to the east coast, you can actually board a replica of the Mayflower and in Plymouth Arbor, and it's Campbell one hundred people it's not big at all. This is focused on the families, and this is focused on the family and happy thanksgiving. We're talking today to J mill Brandt about his book and all the research that went into this. They came for freedom. We've got the book into or download of our conversation. Just click on the links from our episode notes in the podcast. So Jay they've done this. They start their journey now in the Mayflower describe what that journey is like from England to the new world, and what were some of things they encountered on the journey. Well, we talked about logistics, and you know, they tried to gather what they thought they need for was intended to be a relatively short journey would that be. You could probably make it in six to eight weeks. But then, you know, they they brought what they thought they needed, you know, some dried meat and some butter and things in having to sell a lot of it just to pay port fees for they left England. So they started off with less than they than they thought they needed for a regular length journey they sailed into wins that were in the wrong direction. You have no control of this because it's all, you know, tack and work with the wind, right and zigzag back and forth across the ocean. So it was a long journey. It was a stormy. It was tumultuous. And but thankfully, it was not you know, they didn't capsize they didn't is kind of amazing that actually survived the how many survived. Gee, I'd have to look up the numbers to give you the exact total. But they didn't lose anyone from their group. There was a sailor that passed away fell overboard, but the the pogroms all made it and actually gain they had some some children born at sea. So they arrive, you know, in that shape, not tiptop shape. But they're struggling describe even the idea of the Compaq where was that created where they still at sea? When they drafted the Mayflower, compact, what is it? Why is it revered? What are the elements? You can imagine you've spent four months on the ocean. You want to get off this boat and everyone wanted to go on land. First thing they do is. They decide need before we step off this boat, and we step onto land. We've gotta decide how we're going to govern ourselves, which I think is a great insight here is that they had the forethought to do this. And you know, how are we going to structure this who's going to lead the group? And so they created this document called the Mayflower compact while they were on board. And it was really our first example of self government by the people, and they said, okay, here's how we're going to do this. Here's how we're going to make decisions and and governor. Selves once we're on land. And so it was it was a document that laid out what they were going to do before they stepped foot. I think in your book you mentioned this John Quincy Adams the quote by him about the Compaq. He said, it was the first example in modern times of social compact or system of government instituted by voluntary agreement conform ably to the laws of nature by men of equal rights and about to establish their community in a new country. So the point of that is that had a profound impact on the founding fathers again who used elements of that for the constitution. Absolutely now. Several people have cited it throughout history as a precursor to our constitution. And well, we don't see it directly in the country and certainly set up the ethos of of that document of the constitution. And you know, would we've had the constitution without the the Mayflower compact hard to say now, speak to the difficulty that they encountered. I mean, they're low on food supplies squad to the native America. Engage describe with that was like for them. They're out there on the frontier. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they come off the boat in winter set in and it's cold, and it's they're sick. I mean, they have not had nutritious food for months. And so the biggest challenge before the MS trying to find what you eat because it's it's all new even though they picked an area that was in the same latitude as is where they lived in England. And in Europe, it was very different. It's colder. It's not as mild, it's harsher climate. And so they had a really difficult time. And also there was a lot of stories about the native Americans, and that they should be fearful of people and that people aren't to be trusted in in North America. And they had this fear instilled in them and falsely, and so they were very afraid of what they were going to find it was a long time before they even encountered some the native American groups. But eventually they did in squad was one of them who who found them. And befriended him, and he is an interesting character in of himself in what was that interaction? Like did the native Americans actually saved them is history suggested they TM things that they needed to notice survive and not all the tribes were their friends. They had their enemies. They did the if the native peoples wouldn't have found them and befriended them, I don't think they would have survived. So think of that squad to who's just a fascinating character in this. He had probably made four transatlantic trips by the time the pogrom, so he spoke English. And that was the reason he he went and met them is that he was the only the only native person who had English fluency think of that me. And the first time though, I mean how shocking that had to be through the pilgrim? Right, right. Wauneta comes through the forest and says Hello, and it can right. There is a me. It completely changed, you know, the preconceived notions. They had of the people there because here's someone who wanted to show them how to survive. But swan coz interesting because he'd been captured on at least two occasions and taken as a slave sold in Spanish slave market. I mean, just purely interesting person, but this is how you learn English. And so he took them under their wing and showed them how the native peoples planted corn how they caught fish things Pogos probably would not have figured out on their own. And I think it's it would have been hard hard survival without him. So they make it through speak to the feast. Let's get to it. The whole idea of thanksgiving is a is a much later tradition. But they did celebrate that first bounty. How did they celebrate it? What did they call it? And who is there? Yeah. So what's really it's about thanksgiving? We have as our holiday look save sort of mixed up several different events that took place at that time. And when they survived their first year, and they had a crop. They had a harvest festival now harvest festival was it was a secular event that wasn't a purely. A religious event. It was hey, we have food. Finally, let's eat it. And let's celebrate it was it was a great event they invited the native peoples who help them survive, but they ate too much of their food and actually put themselves back into into near starvation. The native Americans are saying why are they eating everything they've grown, but they were celebrating. Let me make sure something's clear though. These are are the pilgrims. I'm sure that all the thanks was given to God ahead of time. Absolutely. You're saying in not being a religious expression. It wasn't thanksgiving as we know it today. Right. Right. But they would have been grateful to God God would have been the center piece of all of they were celebrating. I would think. Absolutely. It was still called a harvest celebration. I just want to make sure that's yeah. Because they were very religious people very God fearing people so that would have been an element. Absolutely. It just it wasn't a church sponsored event per se. So they absolutely would have been thankful, and it was they gave all credit to God for getting them through and surviving. But it was a it was a nonreligious event in and of itself. Now, William Bradford is a key character in this. Who is he what's his role? And what did he do? Bradford was a young man at the start of this. And he was well read he was one of the people who helped chart the course in there government structure, and he became the governor again as a young man he was appointed. Governor of this colony age of that he was he was in his early twenties that which at the time was was kind of middle age it given the survival. But he was one of the one of our heroes of the story because he really brought the pilgrims through. So many times in the lead them faithfully. And he was a man of great faith. So now in the last few minutes, and this has been very educational as gene, and I were reading the book and looking through the material there, there's some great nuggets in here. We don't understand you don't appreciate the history of. Talk about the declaration of thanksgiving. What it has become in the modern world who started it what what's the history of the actual thanksgiving celebration? So we had that harvest festival that we talked about. Now the following year. We have the they tried to plant crops again in the crops almost fail because of drought. And so about the point where they said, you know, if we get any more drought, we are probably going to going to start the crops going to fail. They held a day of thanksgiving. So they brought everyone in the colony together. This was a religious expression. So they brought everyone the colony together for a day of prayer and petition to God for their survival. And as they're having this pray for rain praying for rain, and they're having this day of thanksgiving and evening sets in his clouds come in, and it starts raining, and it's a rain that saves the crops, and they have perfect weather. This is mid July perfect weather for the rest of the season. And so this is where we get the idea of thanks. Giving. Now, what happens is the harvest festival about food and eating food gets combined with the day of thanksgiving over time and about two hundred years later, Sarah Josefa HALE who wrote Mary had a little lamb. She was the one who wrote that poem at song. And she wrote a book about where she talked about this event thanksgiving that that had happened in the colonies, and she lived around the time of the civil skit she did this is about the time the civil war, and she this is a fictionalized event in her book. But it becomes this this greater idea. And so Sarah Josefa health starts partitioning states to make it holiday, and she eventually gets the ear of ABRAHAM LINCOLN who says civil wars just ended. We need a holiday that is unifying that brings people together and focuses us on God and being thankful for this nation, and he loves the site of thanksgiving. And so we get the food. We get the, thanks. The the prayers to God. And they all sort of coalesce. And ABRAHAM LINCOLN creates this national holiday in November. And so it's kind of an interesting story about how you know, all these things came together and thanksgiving gets created some two hundred years later after the pill, and I like the fact I mean if you look at the inflection points of our nation. I it's a good thing. And president Lincoln was trying to save the union way back then they're simply trying to survive. So the union can actually be saved later. Right. So these are two big inflection points. So the idea of combining these things creating a day of thanks giving so pro preate now the other part of this Jays were ending and right at the end here the pilgrims. They went through an economic upturn. They were able to sell their goods, but then they moved along. They went to a different part of the area to Cape Cod. Yeah. And then this is what I didn't realize it didn't work well, and they simply disbanded well. Yeah. Plymouth ended up kind of failing which is really surprising to me and the history sort of sort of fades off how many years was that? From the time that we were talking about the the harvest celebration the first crops all the good news. And then kind of an uptick what was that the number of years upticks started happening in the first twenty years as more of the the Puritans then started coming in from England and they established Boston. And there was a lot of economic growth in Plymouth. And then after that the kids in Plymouth started moving away to Boston and these bigger cities, and they slowly started tricking win, it they sort of pushed out some of the new ideas, and we're willing to adopt and so- Plymouth as a colony Vado, and that's why we don't have a fourteenth colony of Plymouth. We got the thirteen colonies Plymouth wasn't one of them because it just sort of disappeared and got absorbed in some of the others. And so they took that colony and moved out further away. So they could further isolate themselves, and they're they're small. Group from what was happening in the rest of new Jay, this has been really informative, and I'm telling you, I so appreciate the depth that you've been able to collect your in your book, they came for freedom and just the depth of information new things that I never understood and I feel I'm pretty well versed in it. So wonderful wonderful research project for being with us. I hope everyone will pick up a copy of the so we really do know that thanksgiving is not about football in pumpkin. Yeah. It's about so much more and get a copy by writing answer calling us here focus on the family, and if you can make a gift of any amount, we will say thank you by sending you a copy of j mill brands book, they came for freedom donate and get a copy of that book by clicking on the links. From the episode notes in this podcast. Thanks in advance for your generosity on behalf of gym daily and the entire team. Thanks for listening to focus on the family. I'm John Fuller and join us next time as. We once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
The Over-Stuffed Thanksgiving Episode
"Hi, I'm Josh Clark of stuff, you should know. And I have a new podcast series called the end of the world. It's about all the ways humanity might accidents. Wipe ourselves out with the amazing new technology beginning to develop like artificial intelligence. Sure, it's heavy stuff. But it's also enormously interesting, and surprisingly, it's kind of inspiring to if you're a fan of the deep dive check out the end of the world with Josh Clark on apple podcasts, the iheartradio app and everywhere you get podcast and join the conversation on social at hashtag e OT w Josh Clark. Hello and welcome to savor. I'm and I'm Laurin Vogel bomb and today, we're talking about thanksgiving here in the United States. It's happening like tomorrow. If you're listening to this podcast the day that it comes out. Yeah. It's got a lot of fun stuff. And a lot of sad stuff. But it's interesting on the less. Yes. Stuff going on. So I I would say you could listen to it at any time and enjoy it at anytime. Absolutely. But it is appropriate for the season as it comes out. Right. Yes. And I have a lot a lot of thoughts on thanksgiving holiday that I love, but I do find it has the most family drama of the holidays in my case. Although last Christmas that might have been the winner that might have been the all time winter who've. Do the cooking which is very stressful. But I do enjoy a last year. For instance, my little brother announced he had become vegetarian the day before thanksgiving. No, he didn't. He did was he doing it just to spite you sure, I still ponder this to this day. That's why our recent episode on say John was appropriate because there was a last minute rush to find some. Oh, yeah. He could eat. And. For thanksgiving. We cook a Turkey and picking Turkey. I l- I've never heard of this. And I love it. Yeah. It's a smaller Turkey that you cook the night before and you just pick at it the fitting, I don't know if that's the thing. My uncle says, he invented it. But he's he's a known exaggerating. So I'm not sure listeners right in about that we have ham corn bread dressing sweet potato casserole without marshmallows. And this is the one that goes, I this is the dish that is gone. And it has been a source of many scandals in my family hiding of Tupperware's finding of Tupperware leaving of empty Tupperware's and the refrigerator, and then you go to get some. And you're so exciting thing passive aggressive notes. Oh, man. Okay deal. They keep campaigning for me to make two. It's not gonna happen. Homemade cranberry sauce gravy rice green beans Chaka pie. Andrew routine pie mixed up every year. So it's a it's a lot of food. Yeah. And all that you're the one who cooks all of this. Does anyone help you my mom? She taught me so that I could continue this sort of just disappeared. Which I love she. She stays in the kitchen with me and keeping company I generally do most of the, wow, it's always been in my adult anyways. It's always been a very collaborative effort between me and whatever friends I'm spending the holiday with because. Yeah. Thanksgiving is weird one for me because my dad was in the restaurant industry when I was growing up. So for him thanksgiving started at like one or two AM when he would get up and go to work and start cooking like forty turkeys, and like thirty gallons of mashed potatoes, and like just crazy numbers of stuff. So a he hated those foods those foods were never anything he ever wanted to eat, especially not on a nice day. Be. I mean, like he would come home and go to sleep like that. Yeah. I think forty turkeys might do that to you. Absolutely. But I'm so, yeah, it was never a family thing for the two of us like growing up. I would go with my grandmother to my cousin's house, and I don't remember any of the food we ever ate. Didn't make an impression. I do. Remember that she made this cranberry relish, she called it a relish. It was it was very bitter and had like orange peel in it. That's the only thing literally. The only thing everything everything else is lost to the mist of because it wasn't that big of a deal for me. But I don't think I was exposed to a lot of traditional thanksgiving foods until after college when my friends that I started hosting our own for medium portent dishes are the Turkey stuffing, the gravy and having homemade cranberry sauce and pumpkin pie man critical. Yeah. These these days my roommates, and I go up to one of their mom's house and cooked together and like day drink, and it's pretty fabulous. Yeah. I start drinking at like nine AM misgiving. Because you're in the kitchen kitchen what else are you doing? It's a holiday I've kind of slowly daydreaming, but one thanks giving a pipe under our sink broke, and it flooded our kitchen. Oh, no. Which meant that. We didn't eat until really late. Usually we around two pm at this time. It was like eight PM or something. Oh, wow. Because I normally start daydream king so early by the time, we ate I was drained I was so drunk, and I fixed up this huge play like really am bishops plate of food, and I put it down and promptly fell asleep at the table. All my goodness. There's a funny picture of me. Just my head on my arm sprawled and people eight to food of my plate. They oh, no do. Getting furious thinking about it. And when I woke up, it was all gone. It's the only thanksgiving that has ever happened that the food no leftovers how so I didn't get to have anything. Oh my goodness. I still think about it to this day. Clearly, I I've never had a disaster. Like quite like that. But yeah, I think the worst things like I dropped my phone in the oven one year. That was interesting we go it wasn't it wasn't. It was. Okay. It fell through like a crack. It involves some very creative craft making in order to retrieve it. Really intrigued but other than that like I don't like exploded pyrex pan. Oh, yeah. Goodness. Yeah. Yeah. I I've I could get you with so many stories of thanksgiving mishaps fiascos, but we should really get to our questions. I guess I suppose thanksgiving. What is it? Well thanksgiving is a holiday celebrated by many people in the United States and Canada here. It falls on the fourth. Thursday of November in candidates the second Monday in October. It's national holiday here. Lots of folks have the day off businesses tend to be closed. It's family oriented and centers around a feast tight meal involving lots of the foods we've been talking about. And it's a stencil day to be thankful for whatever. Good things are bound to full in your life. The sensibly. Yeah. Exactly what foods people eat varies by region and by family. You know, corn bread dressing versus bread stuffing con pie versus apple versus pumpkin. Versus sweet potato corn pudding versus sweet potato pudding, Brussels versus green beans is your Xtra starch rice or MAC and cheese grits, or mashed potatoes is everything in casserole form with cheese and cream three potatoes versus candied yams corn bread versus east roles versus biscuits. Lots of options very much very much lots of options and general mills collected data on recipe searches one year, twenty sixteen from Betty, Crocker dot com, Pillsbury dot com and tablespoon dot com. November first through Thanksgiving Day, they collected all these recipes searches and put out a list of the most popular recipes by state and a lot of it was stuff that you would expect maybe like a pumpkin cheesecake shows up in their MAC and cheese things like that. But the one and I suspect that football season had some on this too. But buffalo chicken dip showed up a lot. It was like three states most popular recipe. The most popular. Yeah. I would imagine football. And I find just in general when you're doing potluck type thing that's a really popular option. Oh, it's a great one. I'm not dissing. It's delicious. Yes. Yeah. It's just a little outside the ramble. But we normally think of right. It's more modern more modern. Yes. So let's talk about some nutrition. Yeah. Long laugh. I have to say I get angry every year when I see those magazine headlines that are like, hey, ladies, here's not here's a way how to not gain weight over the holiday and its tips. Like, don't eat the skin of the Turkey. Don't eat the pie. It's one day a year. Enjoy and I've been there. I've done that thing and it's miserable. It is miserable. If you are wondering in general, people gain one two three pounds over the holidays. But most people lose it in the first couple of months of the year. And the problem comes in when he don't and it compounds. Yeah, really binging on a single meal is not going to do much of anything. It's continuing to eat rich foods throughout the season be like leftovers from these feast meals or just having multiple celebrations that is going to affect your weight. If you can enjoy yourself or one day, and like eat, your leftover Turkey on top of greens instead of mashed potatoes. I would say that that's a better plan the trying to abstain entirely. Yeah. Yeah. And you're just going to enjoy yourself more. I would say and yes for folks with eating disorders. I note is not as simple as enjoy it. Right. That's a whole separate episode. But we do see you. Absolutely. So let's get into some. Thanks giving number. Yeah. Yeah. According to the American Farm Bureau federation, the average cost for thanksgiving meal for ten people is about forty nine dollars and twelve cents which if that's low to you there. Dada is a tiny bit skewed assuming that you're shopping at a large supermarket chain with low prices, and that you're probably in a rural area where food costs are a little bit lower. And that you're buying a real no frill meal Turkey, stuffing, sweet potatoes roles. Cranberries peas, pumpkin pie and veggie tray. That's it respondents to various surveys report spending around one hundred two hundred dollars on their meals. Yeah. For me, these days thanksgiving is a pretty small celebration. But when I was younger it used to be like fifteen to twenty people. Yeah. And there was the coveted adult table. And one year when I was nine I campaigned, really hard. Yeah. Let me sit at the adult table. But I accidentally switched I promise. This was an accident. No one believes me, but I had picked up a Cup of wine. Oh, a Cup of juice, and I took a sip of it. I did a spit take. Oh my God. It all over everyone on the nice, white tablecloth. I was immediately. Stable, and they never invited me again like sixteen. Table. A big fiasco that I call anyway. If we're talking the calorie count on average, the whole shebang comes out around four thousand five hundred calories. Goodness. Yeah. Which is actually lower than I thought it would be. Yeah. That's not too bad. I mean, really for all that wonderful food. Yeah. For just the amount of like, just gravy. Chefs. I take here's hit me with another nine percent of Americans. Eat thanksgiving out at a restaurant in twenty sixteen American soldiers stationed overseas. Eight thirty four thousand seven hundred sixty pounds of Turkey twenty one thousand four hundred fifty pounds of him nine thousand one hundred and fourteen pounds of stuffing an eight hundred seventy nine gallons of eggnog on Thanksgiving Day. I don't understand the eggnog thing. That's not a thanksgiving food. It's a Christmas food. I mean, you know, people serving our country get to do whatever they want in terms of eating when they are stationed out wherever but why? You can reach us that. Numbers from Petah say that each year forty five million turkeys are killed in the US for thanksgiving ninety percent of American thanksgiving meals. Do include Turkey, the Butterball hotline answers, one hundred thousand questions between November and December and to bring up Stephen Colbert all the time but back on the Kobe report. And I think even on his the new show the new old show. He's new host of an old show. He had a segment where he answered questions on the Butterball hotline. So you might get him when you call. Oh, my goodness darling. When it comes to that. Dreaded scenario. The Turkey is ready. The wonderful smell is filled. The kitchen you gotta take it out and right onto the floor. What do you do? Survey says that forty one percent of those surveyed would still serve the Turkey. If no one had seen the incident and wouldn't tell their guests. Thirty four percent said they would still serve it. But they would tell the folks what happened for percents that. They would order pizza. I was totally serve it. Oh, man. I would I would definitely serve it. I think that has happened before we were just like. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Just I mean, come on your floor is probably fine. Didn't happen. Julia child didn't she have a where she did something like that? It wasn't like a whole Turkey or something. But yeah, she was just like a blueprint back in the pan. It's fine. According to one survey with Turkey out of the picture stuffing is the most important dish required for making thanksgiving meal a thanksgiving meal after that, it's mashed potatoes and quick word here. I for a long time got very confused about stuffing addressing the stuffing is the stuff actually the Turkey. Yes. Well, these days they don't really recommend putting cooking stuffing inside of Turkey because it's really just going to slow down your cooking time and make the rest of the Turkey dry out. But I think stuffing and dressing to two different words for the same thing. That's what I thought too. Yeah. Is it just for a long time? It's been different different preparation methods. I suppose, well, I think that the dressing was also inside of the bird for a long time. Yeah. I think it's just two different words. Interesting. Well, my family doesn't do mashed potatoes. But it does make me think of that friends or Monica cooking the thanksgiving meal for everyone and everyone wants specific type of potato that is the tradition in their family tater tots, mashed with lumps. And whipped with peas and onions, and because it's a sitcom get locked out everything gets burned. I think they order pizza. They like order food from somewhere. So no one got there for. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration finds at thanksgiving is the deadliest holiday on the road. Don't drink and drive, folks. Don't I find this really surprising because I would have thought New Year's Eve our New Year's was the worst. I know Super Bowl. It's not like a holiday, but the Super Bowl Sunday is a really bad one. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that those, you know, I think that more people are likely to call cabs on on a day like new year New Year's where they they're going out to party. But you know, they're like, oh, man. I'm just having three bottles of wine with my family. That's gonna be that's gonna be fine. Right. No, no, no. No. No. It's not. So that's our thanksgiving overview, and we have a lot of history. Oh, yes. Yes. But first we have a quick break for word from our sponsor. I'm Katie golden. I studied psychology of listener biology at Harvard, and I pretend to be a bird on Twitter in my new podcast creature feature. We've you nature in men from a new perspective each episode Eskin comedian to get inside the minds of animals, so we can explore the startling connections to human psychology. You'll find blood bents and treachery that make game of thrones seemed like dumb show for babies. Join every Wednesday and subscribe on apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. And we're back. Thank you sponsor. Yes. Thank you for many of Americans. We probably know the story of thanksgiving that we heard in elementary school is not exactly historically accurate. Nope. However, there is a seed of truth to it. One Mary small pumpkin seed. Yes. Yes. First off the dates can get a little fuzzy. But here it goes, this this actually release the prize me, I was kind of shocked that they really well. We don't know for sure, but we think it's the state after the one hundred and two passengers on the Mayflower made landfall near Massachusetts in sixteen twenty and form the town of Plymouth things were rough during their first winter in the new world, most of the pilgrims stayed on the Mayflower only about half of the original colonists lived to see the spring in sixteen twenty one the fifty three surviving pilgrims and the Pawtucket band of the womp. No egg tribe came together and held a three day fall harvest feast, this is generally thought of as the first thanksgiving there were other feast of things before then it was sort of a thing the these days of prayer for military victories or for food. Or a lotta times it had a religious acts aspect to it show. These days of thanksgiving. This by far was not the first time people did that. Yeah. No, not not Europeans and also certainly not the indigenous peoples. No, no, no. But this is the one that historians point to as the first, and we'll get into why that is a little later and a lot of miss surrounded this event, and why it took place once he goes at the pilgrims were out fouling for turkeys, geese and duck. And they quote in one day killed as much as served the company almost a week. So a lot soon after about ninety members of the one Noah tribe showed up at the settlement and the two groups interacted with out incident, they contributed venison to the feast and the feast probably featured ills fish, shellfish ficials, Stu cornmeal, cranberries, pumpkin. And of course, beer. Drunk folks ran races and fired guns in celebration. People said on the ground or on barrels pleats balanced precariously on their laps this feast resulted in a treaty between the two groups, but it only lasted until king Philip's war from sixteen seventy five to sixteen seventy six relations between the two groups had been strained for a while as more and more columnist poured into the colony and disease. The colonists. Brought with them called Indian fever killed about ninety percent of the indigenous peoples from sixteen sixteen to sixteen nineteen who've. Yeah. And to be clear king Philip was the leader of the one Noah tribe. It's the name that the English gave him. He was the son of the man who celebrated this first thanksgiving with the pilgrims king Philip's war broke out after some of king Philip's men. His name was meta comet murdered Christian convert and the punk apo-. Hitter. John Sassaman, hundreds of colonists and thousands of native Americans died some estimates put the death toll at thirty percent of the English population. And fifty percent of the native American population. The town of Springfield, Massachusetts was burned down the food stores of the near Knesset's tribe was destroyed meta comet went to New York for reinforcements, but wasn't stead attacked by the mohawk tribe, and he was killed soon. After returning home some accounts say he was beheaded and dismembered his allies were sold into slavery and his head was put on a spike where it remained for a quarter of a century. And this was the again, this son of the tribe leader who celebrated that I think's giving right, right? Okay. Other historians. Think that the first thanks giving took place in sixteen thirty seven after Massachusetts Governor John Winthrop called for a day of thanksgiving. To celebrate the slaughter of seven hundred peak. Watts. Oh, yeah. That's not nice. Early settlers in Virginia celebrated an annual things giving us far back as sixteen nineteen. And if you go back even further to fifteen sixty five Florida members of the Salah tribe had meal thinks giving with Spanish settlers that included things like salted, pork and Girban Sabin's. Oh, yeah. Also when it comes to squad to who someone a lot of Americans are probably familiar with comes to this whole, thanks giving tale as far as we know. He did. In fact, help out newly arriving settlers in the early sixteen hundreds as translator and teacher, showing them were to catch fish. And how to go corn? However, he was captured by the English and sixteen fourteen and sold into slavery over the next couple of years, he learned English and he did make it back to New England and sixty nineteen but by then the Pawtuxet tribe, which was his tribe had been wiped out by smallpox thanksgiving. Yeah. Right before he goes, celebrate with your family. Yeah. You can get drunk on wine and regale them with these fun facts. Yeah. The European settlers did really terrible things. They did. And we're not through. When the constitution was enacted, the continental congress called for a national thanksgiving. But then congress left thanksgiving to be decided by states in seventeen ninety eight some of which really didn't like the federal government getting involved in any religious observations, which again thanksgiving was for a long time a religious thing. Right. The south didn't really get into it. Like the north did. And it was the source of a lot of controversy more divisive than unifying, and this brings us to the mid eighteen hundreds when the north dominated the federal government and the country was more divided than ever during the civil war and it rings us to Sarah Josefa hail. She was the editor of the magazine goldies ladies book and also the author of Mary had a little lamb just for another fun to bit about her. And she thought that a national day of thanksgiving was just what America needed to unify. Okay. Sure. She had found the writings of Edward Winslow. One of the two attendees at the supposed I thanks giving who wrote about it who's record still survive and she wanted to revive this of note. The Boston clergyman who rediscovered and published writings labeled them the first thanksgiving. They were describing the first thanksgiving, but he did it kind of arbitrary. Yeah. She started publishing articles and recipes about it. A description of Turkey from the other surviving written record of the event convinced her that Turkey needed to be involved in this meal and beginning in eighteen forty six she started a letter campaign five American presidents five received a letter from hail president Taylor. President Fillmore president peers, president Buchanan, and then president Lincoln and more than one letter a piece, right? Like this was like at least once a year. She would send these letters. Yes. Yeah. She was very very determined and paid off or efforts were successful. When ABRAHAM LINCOLN declared that Thursday, November twenty six eighteen sixty three which was during the civil war as national Thanksgiving Day. He advised Americans to quote, commend to his tender care all those who have become widows orphans mourners or suffers in the lamentable civil strife and to. To heal the wounds of the nation. Hale also, really helped sell this idea that the first things giving was a beautiful love between the native Americans in the pilgrims. That version we hear elements school. Yeah. She was also the one who kind of cemented our concept of of the visual concept of the pilgrims that we learn in elementary school that whole black and white outfit and the whole thing. Yeah. It in reality. They would have been wearing like I mean, they were real poor. And they kind of been run out of England. They were wearing whatever they could Ford which was probably a wild hodgepodge of different colors and cheap fabrics. Yeah. I've always wondered about that. But Sarah Josefa hail real Victorian about stuff. Yeah. She was in dude. Her idea of thanksgiving meal did include Turkey and stuffing, but also steak pork mutton geese ducks chicken pie roasted vegetables, lots of gravy, mashed potatoes, cranberry sauce and pumpkin pie. You know, I have to go on a brief aside. I lo- pumpkin and pumpkin pie. But my family is really weird about it. And they won't eat it. They've never had it. They try it have they had speed potato pie. No, okay. They've had soup potato casserole. And I told you that I, and it's it's become a source of contention because my view if I'm cooking the meal than they're stuck with what you give. I wanna eat it. Right. But they won't eat it. I did make one year. I made a virgin I thought they might like which would sort of a pumpkin cheesecake concoction, and they didn't need it. I'm so jealous of people eating pumpkin home on thanksgiving. You can make one for yourself. I mean, I know that that's like extra work. Yeah. And I'm free. I'll eat the whole thing. I probably would. But of about pumpkin pie by eighteen sixty nine pumpkin pie was called the inevitable thanksgiving dish. So that's been around for a while. Oh, yeah. And if you're wondering why the last Thursday of the month for this holiday HALE thought that this would give women who were pretty much doing all of the cooking time time to prepare this huge feast on top of the traditional weekly big Sunday meal. So so yeah, so place it on. A thursday. And that way, ladies you have time to clean up your dishes and do it again on Sunday. Yep. That's why it's Thursday. In eighteen seventy six we have the first Thanksgiving Day football game. With Yale the Princeton each president after Lincoln has declared the national day of thanksgiving along with what date it would fall on. And typically it was the last Thursday of the month during president Franklin Roosevelt's time in office. So he's specified that thanksgiving should be celebrated on the fourth Thursday never on the rare fifth Thursday of November as opposed to president Lincoln's last Thursday of the month, which could be the fifth one FDR did try to move thanksgiving to the third Thursday of the month in order to extend the holiday shopping season low. That's what he was angling for. Yeah. Which which starts after thanksgiving and boost the economy in nineteen forty one, but some states were not on board and did not comply L, and he and congress moved it to the fourth Thursday in nineteen forty two so one year later, okay? Oh, never mind. Never mind. People are not happy with this. Yeah. Maybe not the last Thursday. But certainly not the third, okay. For. The first Macy's day parade took place in nineteen twenty four and the Turkey timer. Popped up. in the nineteen fifties. As the result of a serious brainstorm done by the California Turkey producers advisory board a serious storm series. Oh, yeah. Well, they were worried that Turkey was being given a bad name due to people's poor cooking of Turkey on thanksgiving. And so they. It was like a three day the locked themselves in a room, and we're all we need to solve this problem. How can we let people know when they're Turkey is done. And Finally, I the pictures I have my head of this one guy like in an office chair spinning around staring at the ceiling hopelessly and his eyes fell upon a fire sprinkler ceiling, and he was like there's a little bit inside fire sprinkler melts. When when it hits a certain temperature, and that's how the water nose to release. That's how the waters trigger to release. And he was like I can do that in Turkey timer. And so yeah. So it works by a little thing in their melts. When when the Turkey is at the right temperature, hypothetically, not trista. Yeah. It's not trista use a probe moment or y'all. She's very suspicious of. But I do love story. I do a great story as we touched on in our Turkey up. So the first Turkey was officially pardoned by president George H W Bush in nineteen eighty nine. And if you want kind of a funny, I'll say funny. Yeah. No. It's funny Kristin Kristin is hilarious wrist in conger of unladylike. Our past stuff. Mom, never told you go host. I was video producer over at stuff on told you, and we've made a video her story video all about this. If you wanna check it out on YouTube, it definitely focuses more on seared Asifa HALE and her eccentricities. Yes. That's a good word. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. I love it. It's really. It's really funny. Yeah. And we should say on thanksgiving some indigenous peoples fast and observe a national day of mourning. So I think it's good to to keep all of this. This history in mind. It does sound as though we've become very divorced from what it once was from from what like the reality of the situation could have possibly been and. Yeah. And that that's surpise story is it find for kindergartners. I'm not saying that you should be like well, right? Timmy, don't scarred me for life. But but yeah, no. It's it's it's really important to keep in mind as it is with with all of the all of the terrible things we tell you about history on this show. Yes. You're welcome. But as we've mentioned a little bit in this episode. The United States is not the only country that celebrates thanksgiving and Turkey is not the only thing that's consumed. That's right. And we'll get to both of those things after we get back from a quick break forward where sponsor. Hello. My name is Kevin Pollack. Yes. The award winning funny fella from that film. And or TV thing that makes you smile every darn time. You see folks, did, you know, I've got a new comedy podcast that was created with you and mine 'cause I do it's called alchemy this, and it was designed with a single purpose, you laughing a lot I'm talking, please. Let someone else drive when listening if you enjoy laughing. Uncontrollably while running errands exercising or building crispy cream doughnut machine and your basement from parts you stole while working there. As an assistant manager, oh, buddy. Boy, I've got the comedy podcast for you. Each of us. I'm the puppet. Master who sets the scene, and then five genius improvisers, and I will make you laugh and feel better alchemy. This the new funny podcast from me. Kevin pollick? Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen the podcast. And we're back thing. He sponsor. Yes. Thank you. So a Gallup poll in this are year of twenty eighteen founded about eight percent of Americans. Don't eat meat about five percent being vegetarian and three percent vegan. And that is a small percentage, but equals out to over twenty six million people. So what are those folks to do on a holiday built around Turkey? Woo. Are they to the the kind of traditional answer at this point is tofurkey? In nineteen ninety five. The I forgive meal sold locally in Oregon. It was a collaboration between eight Tempa maker and a vegetarian catering company. The temple maker was a one Seth Tibbett who had founded the brand turtle island foods, and he started with an incubator an incubator because that's how you make tempo. We did a whole episode about it. It involves fungus. It's pretty red. You know, see see that upset for more. But yeah, he made his first incubator out of discarded refrigerator that was heated with strands of Christmas lights. My goodness. By this point. He had moved on from that. But, but yeah, the catering company higher taste had been making these to order stuff. Tofu roasts that were glazed with orange, juice and soy sauce. They're pretty popular and timid to go with this mixed some wild rice in cranberry into his tempest emptied into little drumet- forms, and they packaged the two together as nice little frozen entree to bit insisted on the name tofurkey over the strong objections of everyone else involved. They were like that's ridiculous. Can we have a little bit of decorum here? And he was like, no, no tofurkey. In nineteen Ninety-seven. They bought a recipe for wheat gluten and started mixing their tofu with that which which made for much better texture after freezing and reheating because tofu unto itself goes a little bit like spongy when it's been frozen and reheated. Yeah. And meanwhile, folks were so entertained by the name that the product was getting a lot of press and order started pouring in from all over the country. It was a wild success in twenty ten a food co-op in Minneapolis publicly pardoned tofurkey, of course. And yeah, I don't know. I don't know if y'all listeners have ever had one they're they're kinda rubbery. They don't, you know, they don't really Brown. Well, they roll around in roasting pans maddeningly, but a writer for the New Yorker vegetarian by the name of Jonathan Coffman said that it's quote nonetheless a bit Turkey like and its trustee stodgy nece. It's the thing that's on the holiday table because it's supposed to be there. Kind of wonderful. He's right about the name. I guess I feel like I just have vastly different tastes in almost everyone in my family, but I loved Herkie, and I never get to eat it. But they all act like they'd be fine. If it wasn't. And I've been determined to keep it keep the tradition going. That's why we cook Cam as well. Because they would rather have him. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They definitely think it's just the thing that supposed to be there. That the whole ham thing is still mystifying to me because aside of my family that I grew up having holidays with a was the juice out of my family. And so we did not eat ham. Well, I mean, my dad and my grandma, and I all eight ham at family holidays where we had some slightly more pious observers, right, right? We certainly wouldn't serve a ham. And so the very idea I'm like I've gotten used to the idea that people eat it for Christmas. But I'm still mystified by showing up on giving tables. Yeah. I think it's just because some people don't really. I love Turkey. I do too. And for my brother that is vegetarian. Now, there's just so much food. Anyway, he didn't ask for tofurkey. Oh, yeah. There's there's a lot. I mean, there's some really interesting looking recipes for making your own tofu, roast or other meat alternative roast online. So, you know, if you're not really into cooking, and you like to I mean, also if you like to go for it. Oh, totally don't let our opinions sway you likely. Like like what you like. But, but if you're less than happy with it there are so many recipes out there for cool stuff. So yeah. Yeah. But now at first sight aside, it's time for a word about Canada, Canada, too has a thanksgiving with a lot of the same themes analyze the same foods one thing we should mention the indigenous peoples of Canada were also doing something similar to a thanksgiving feast. Long before in European showed up the first known day of a European base. Thanksgiving in Canada took place in fifteen seventy eight after Martin fro Shire's expedition came to a safe conclusion for pushers fleet in the present day. None of that tribe were in attendance or not. Another similarity multiple origin stories here. Another version goes that in sixteen of six ameet heavy celebration in Port Royal on November fourteenth sixteen o six by Samuel, d champlin might have been the first European base. Thanksgiving the meal a part of the order of good cheer. Brought together the indigenous peoples of the region and the Europeans. The order of good cheer, by the way was a dinner series with the goal of preventing mount attrition and scurvy among columnist. Oh, isn't that is an order of good cheer dinner series? I like that. Yeah. Also note here that I either of these stories Canadians beat us to the thanksgiving punch by like a good couple decades. So interesting. Yeah. Go canada. Okay. Another story goes settlers and Canada might not have survived at all without the help of MC. Mock who taught them how to ice fish and introduce them to a berry with a lot of vitamin C in it as thank you. The colonists invited the mic to their November fourteenth. Celebrate with food muskets 'em perhaps the first play ever performed in North America. They have to do Neptune. Basically, it was the story of the indigenous people swearing fealty to the newly-arrived explorers. After these newcomers had received congrats from the God Neptune. These explores also about smallpox with them and conflict and war an organization called Canada. I started pushing for a white Protestant Canada in the eighteen sixties and thanksgiving was a part of that push. Yeah. Yeah. Remember thanksgiving used to be much more religious the national Thanksgiving Day was declared to be on November six by parliament in eighteen seventy nine and it's moved a few times. But in nineteen fifty seven it was decreed to fall on the second Monday in October. And it isn't optional holiday in Atlantic Canada. And like not really a big deal at all in Quebec where it is known, by the way, not as thanksgiving. But as the with any axiom dos ago, a few other cultural differences because there's no holiday to buffer Halloween and Christmas because happens in early October some Canadian start putting up Christmas decorations the day after Halloween. Stomach turns at that. Also, another thanksgiving tradition in the United States is black Friday the shopping day after thanksgiving, and although it started in the United States, of course, because you know, Canadians don't have the next day off. It's being picked up in Canada now to black Friday Friday as in after the US thanksgiving Karrar think so. Yeah. Yeah. In order to prevent Canadians who live near the border like just going over to the US for sales. Keep the money in Canada. Okay. You'll have sales to okay, sure, my mom, and I have a history of black Friday shopping, and it has been fascinating to see the rise and fall of it. Because now it's kind of wonderful in my opinion because there's nobody really there. Oh, yeah. Oh, man. People come in around like one or two which is win. The doorbusters are over. I don't understand why. But most people are doing their shopping online. I imagine. Yeah. Well, got to be such a terrible thing so long. Yeah. I had a friend one time one family that I was spending a lot of thanksgiving with the the husband would stay up all night. Yeah. To get there so early and do the thing, and I was just like. Yeah. That is a, dedication and tolerance for other human people, but I do not possess. I worked on black Friday for awhile. So. Some things. Then you've got a lot of thanksgiving scars. But I love it. And this this brings us to the end of this episode of for a little peek behind the curtain because we're not gonna do listener mail. We're actually recording this Halloween. Yeah. Because I'm about to I'm going on vacation for a little bit. And then we're going to be in New Orleans and the New York it feels like time traveling in a strange way it does. It does. Also, I don't think we've ever been this in recording the show. I it feels real strange, and I don't like it. I know I should be getting ready for thanksgiving. It's halloween. Also in case anyone's worried, I found the butterfinger today. Oh, my kid. He's won't be destroyed. Congratulations. Thank you. I'm glad. But we really hope that you enjoy your thanksgiving. If you celebrate it whatever you happen to be celebrating. Yeah. We we hope that whether or not you're celebrating that you have lots of things to be thankful for and the you're eating something. Great. Yes. Yes. We're all about that. Or if you are choosing to take a day of fast that tomorrow, he will eat something. Great. Yes. Well, put Lauren, and we would love to hear what kind of foods you eat. Oh, yeah. Giving or whatever kind of feasting meal that you have throughout the year. Yeah. Please send those two as you can Email us at Hello at saver pod dot com. We're also on social media, you can find us on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram at saver pod. We hope to hear from you. Thank you so much to our super producer Dylan Fagin. Thank you to you for listening. And we hope that lots more things are coming your way. Day's episode is brought to you by splendid table this thanksgiving. Make sure that the splendid table podcast and radio show is your kitchen companion throughout November Francis lamb and the splendid table team will be covering all the bases from life-changing gravy techniques to drinking more and better. Champagne, we always approve that to a soul food thanksgiving celebration. Chef Carla hall and on Thanksgiving Day. Don't miss their annual Turkey comfort ential. It's a live Colin show for a full two hours Francis. And it's liberty guests joy Greenspan summing threat and Patty hitch will answer whatever questions you may have on the busiest cooking day of the year. You can listen and call in from splendid table dot org or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Sarah Josepha Hale & Godeys Ladys Book
"Support for steffi missed in history class comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by quicken loans finding the right house is not easy but finding the right mortgage can be rocket mortgage is doing more to help you understand the home buying process that you can get exactly what you need because it's not just a mortgage your mortgage and they've found a better way. They make the the home buying process work for you. In fact rocket mortgage is there with a word winning at client service and support every step of the way visit rocket mortgage dot com slash history eric class and take the first step toward the home of your dreams equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states l. s. consumer access dot org number thirty thirty mortgage by quicken loans push-button get mortgage mortgage welcome to stuff you missed in history class a production of iheartradio's. How stuff works <music> hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm tracy nielsen and i'm holly fry lately. I've been thinking a lot about etiquette on the internet and how sometimes there's not any how etiquette isn't something that just springs forth from people unprompted the idea of what is and isn't polite or rude has to be kind of cultivated and created and reinforced intentionally including through things like etiquette manuals and advice columns and magazines and that whole line of thought led me to something that has been on my list for a long time and has also been requested stood by a lot of our listeners. That's goads ladies book and its editor. Sarah yourself a hail. I will say that i have heard historians and archivists say this as goethe's and as gatti's i have also on occasion heard good days. I think that's just people trying to make a sound fancy. I that that does sound like an attempt for a bunch of folks that i have listened to from vassar who she was associated with all said goat cheese so that's the one that we're gonna go with. This was the most popular magazine in the united states the middle of the nineteenth century and although it's mostly well known at this point for its hands tinted fashion plates the content of the magazine was collection of all kinds of material including poetry and fiction and household tips and music and yes etiquette and it was is incredibly influential in terms of both the actual magazine content and hails work outside of his patients and a lot of ways that are still felt today in europe. The first magazines were launched in the seventeenth century. Thanks to advances in printing technology and mail distribution as well as increased literacy rates. The word magazine is much older than that but it was i used to describe a periodical filled with works by various writers often on a range of subjects aimed at a general audience and that was in seventeen thirty one that was when edward cave started publishing the gentleman's magazine he called it a magazine because the words earlier meaning of storehouse storehouse the gentleman's magazine was meant to be a storehouse of knowledge magazines aimed specifically at women were part of this whole ecosystem by seventeen fifty nine nine. That's when the royal female magazine or the ladies general repository of pleasure and improvement was first published in england and the united states the first i women's magazine was called ladies magazine and it was founded in seventeen ninety. Two various women's magazines came and went on both sides of the atlantic in the u._s. Most of them folded within a year or two until sarah. Josefa hail started publishing her ladies magazine which was the first women's magazine in the u._s. That lasted more than five years on that is in fact a different ladies magazine than the one that was founded in seventeen ninety two and we're going to go back up for a minute and talk about how how hale got there. She was born saroj assefa buell in newport new hampshire on october. Twenty four th seventeen eighty eight parents were captain. Gordon buell and martha whitney buell on her father had fought in the revolutionary war. Sarah was the third of their for children. Sarah's parents thought that girls should have access is to education and for the buell daughters that meant being tutored at home by their mother along with their brothers. It did not however mean that sarah could go to college of of all her siblings. Sarah was close to her brother horatio and when he went to dartmouth he actively encouraged herself study and he shared his books with her when he was home in her words quote. He seemed very unwilling that i should be deprived of all his collegiate advantages. Sarah became a teacher when she was eighteen and in eighteen thirteen eighteen when she was twenty five. She married david hale who was a lawyer. David encouraged her to continue educating herself again in her words quote we commenced soon after our marriage system of study and reading which we pursued while he lived the hours allowed from eight o'clock in the evening till ten two hours and the twenty twenty four how i enjoyed those hours and all our mental pursuits it seemed the aim of my husband to enlighten my reason strength in my judgment and give me confidence in my own powers of mine which he estimated much higher than i but this approbation which he bestowed on my talents has been of great encouragement to me and attempting attempting the duties that have since become my portion sadly. David did not live long. He died of pneumonia in eighteen twenty two nine years into their marriage by then they had four children together. They were david horatio francis and sarah joseph. The elder sarah was pregnant with their fifth child. William mm who was born not long after his father's death. Sarah was understandably devastated and she wore black for the rest of her life. Although this was also influenced by the fact that she found black flattering on her and she also thought it made her look taller. Sarah knew that she was going to have to work to support her family but that a teacher's salary was never are going to be enough to support her in five children before her marriage. She hadn't even been supporting herself on teachers. Pay she'd been living at home and using that salary to help cover her father's others medical expenses david had been a freemason though in his brothers at the masonic lodge helped get sarah and her sister in law hannah established with a millenary sorry business that along with dress making was one of the very few business opportunities that were considered appropriate for middle class women the masonic lodge also funded the publication of a book of poetry that sarah had written that was called the genius of oblivion and other original poems and it was published under the byline a lady the of new hampshire sarah earned enough money from this book that she was able to leave hannah in charge of what actually seems to have become quite a thriving millenary business and instead sarah sarah focused on writing sarah submitted poems and stories to magazines journals in eighteen twenty seven she published a novel called northwood a tale of new england and northwood contrasted a woman's life in new england to what she imagined to be a woman's life in the south at this point hale was really concerned that the issue of slavery slavery was going to lead to a civil war or otherwise just destroy the country and northwood reflects these spheres as well as the era's prevailing racism inhales hails owned biases the book condemned the institution of slavery and the idea of a widening divide between the north and the south while also treating white white women of both the north and the south with a lot of sympathy northwood was very well received and it caught the eye of the reverend john lewis blake who approach tale about starting a magazine for women. This was not an easy decision for her. If the magazine was successful she would probably make enough money to send all five of her children to college but taking the job was also going to mean leaving her older children with relatives while she moved to boston to work her oldest child. David was thirteen at this point and was getting ready to head to west point but the rest of her children were years away from leaving home and her youngest child was only five in the and hale did take this job. She spent a few months at home in new hampshire preparing and planning out the magazine i issues before sending her middle three children to live with various aunts and oncological. She took william with her when she left for boston in the spring of eighteen twenty eight and we'll talk about that magazine after we i paused for a little sponsor break. Everyone knows about the risks of driving drunk. You could get into a crash get arrested incur huge legal expenses loser job or hurt or even kill people but that still doesn't stop everyone. We all know the consequences of driving drunk but one thing's for sure you're wrong if you think it's no big deal drive sober or get pulled over the magazine. That's a hail launched in eighteen twenty eight was initially known as ladies magazine and literary gazette. It's believed to be the first magazine edited by a woman after a while. It's name was shortened to just ladies magazine and then expanded to american ladies magazine. This was supposed to distinguish it from a different ladies magazine that was being published in britain and also to highlight what hale saw as the magazine's american focus at the time most magazines being published in the united states were being created aided primarily through a practice called clipping that was just republishing material from other magazines without any kind of acknowledgement or attribution or payment to its original creators creators most of the time the clip content in the u._s. was coming from british publications and we've talked a little bit about <hes> publications that worked in that style and we have talked about <hes> pose era and his rivals and also also other <hes> other people that worked in in literary efforts etc came up i think in in our winsor mccay episodes possibly <hes> but he'll bless her did not approve of this practice because of clipping and she wanted this to be an american magazine by and for american women meaning middle and upper class white women she did the vast majority thirty of the original writing herself in the magazines pages included poetry fiction essays news articles household tips and editorials where she advocated needed things like property rights for married women some things that they did not want this magazine to include were fashion plates. These were illustrations of people poland fashionable clothing and appealing surroundings usually done as etchings or engravings. She really wanted her magazine to be dedicated to the education and enrichment richmond of women and that did not in her mind include fashion in her words quote there is no part of our duty as editor of a ladies journal which which we feel so reluctant to perform as to quote or exhibit the fashions of dress this is where i retract my blessing upon her but fashion russian plates were incredibly popular and hail started losing subscribers as competing magazine started publishing more of them by late eighteen thirty hail realize that she really did have to include fashion plates. She wanted her magazine to stay afloat. So the first few issues that included fashion plates bemoaned the lack of original american fashions wants to feature or offered commentary that criticized fashion or printed an essay on the facing page that used the plate as some kind of moral lesson eventually though hailed moved onto publishing plates without all of the judgy commentary. Yes she was sort of like if i have to do this. I'm just going to be as put draghi and complain about it as irony is though she wore black hole life because she thought it made her look stunning so she was into fashion she just would acknowledge it yeah and also that this magazine and then also goes ladies beck. We're gonna talk about more in a bit. I mean they became incredibly famous. For all these fashion plates so ladies magazine stopped publishing fashion plates toward the very end of its run but it's not clear whether that contributed to the magazines decline by eighteen eighteen thirty four the magazine had started to struggle in part due to the financial fallout from president andrew jackson's efforts to try to dismantle the bank of the united states hale started appealing to her subscribers to try to support the magazine and for the ones whose subscriptions were in arrears to pay their bills so during these lean years there's a man named louis antoine goaty approach tale about moving to philadelphia to edit his magazine. His name does appear french. He was born in the u._s. So we're going with the louis. Pronunciation goaty was born in new york as i said in the u._s. On june sixth eighteen o four kale most of his education had come through self study he had owned a small bookstore or and new stand for awhile before he became a scissors editor at the philadelphia daily chronicle in eighteen thirty he started publishing a magazine called ladies book which was has like so many other magazines created through clipping and it also included fashion plates but cody also didn't want this magazine to just be your standard clipping clippings shop he wanted it to be in his words quote the guiding star of female education the beacon light of refined taste pure morals and practical wisdom him and he hoped that if he hired hails she could take it in that direction in spite of her own magazine struggles hail actually turned him down. This was largely because she didn't want to leave boston. Her son william was about to start college at harvard and she didn't want to leave until he graduated and she also wasn't quite ready to give up her own when magazin at this point she was co owner hale had been very busy during her whole tenure as editor of american ladies magazine she had written numerous books because on top of all the writings she was doing for the magazine but included publishing poems for our children including mary had a little lamb which was published in eighteen thirty. It's it's poems written to inculcate moral truths and virtuous sentiments. She was also hugely active. In fundraising efforts for the completion of the bunker hill monument and she helped found the seaman's aid society and become its first president she kept up this pace as her magazine struggled but she really was not able to turn things around in eighteen thirty six goaty made another proposal that he could buy american ladies magazine merge it with his lady's book and let hail at at the combined combined magazine from boston until her son william graduated from college in eighteen forty one this time hale agreed as of its first issue in eighteen thirty-seven she was the editor of goethe's ladies book and she took it in a similar direction she had taken american ladies magazine which is what goaty had been hoping for moving get away from clipping toward original content hale also focused on hiring women for as many roles as she could eventually this included a staff of a hundred and fifty fifty women's. You hand colored the fashion plates that means hand coloring them for every copy of the magazine which was a a feat and also meant that sometimes different people's copies would be in different colors because they ran out of one. Obviously that's one of the things we said before that this magazine became really famous for for also in keeping with her distaste for covering fashion and a lady's magazine at all fashioned was the only section of goaty ladies book that hailed did not personally oversee z. There was a lot in the magazine beyond the fashion plates and other fashion coverage hail still wanted to quote provide quality material to benefit and educate the female email reader so like her earlier magazine godinez ladies book began publishing poetry fiction essays biographical vignettes news advice and household household tips she introduced stories and articles for children meant to be read to them by their mothers. Each issue included sheet music and they were also sewing and embroidery patterns also recipes anything that hale thought would be educational edifying and useful for american ladies. This meant that cody's ladies book also so became a publishing outlet for some of the united states leading writers at the time the magazine published work by nathaniel hawthorne harriet beecher stowe ralph waldo emerson emerson henry wadsworth longfellow washington irving edgar allan poe was a contributor as well publishing stories and poems including the cask of a moncia do you under the leadership of hail as editor and goethe's publisher goldies. Ladies book became incredibly successful. We mentioned earlier that hails american ladies magazine gene was the first women's magazine in the u._s. To last more than five years goethe's ladies book lasted for almost seventy from eighteen thirty to eighteen ninety eight eight. It outlived both its editor and its publisher. It also became hugely popular. It had about ten thousand subscribers. When hail came on editor at its peak in eighteen sixty it had about a hundred and fifty thousand subscribers which was the largest circulation of any magazine in the united states at at all this was in spite of an annual subscription cost of three dollars which was considered expensive for the time. It's always tricky to make these comparisons but this is is usually cited as between eighty five and ninety dollars a year. Today it's also tricky to compare that to current magazine subscription rates because there are so many bundles khalil's and digital only subscriptions and whatnot but the current bundles subscription rate for vogue is twenty one dollars ninety nine cents a year and the cover price for a year ear of martha stewart. Living is forty nine dollars ninety cents that is according to each of their websites. It was also read well beyond its subscriber base. It's intended audience was ladies in the mindset of the time that meant white protestant women who were mostly middle class or more affluent but it was also read beyond that demographic with women pooling their money to share a subscription or boarding houses sharing one copy among all its residents or patrons reading copies in libraries and reading rooms so today cody's ladies book is a huge source of information about middle class white women in the nineteenth century and it and hail were also enormously influential which will get to in a moment after a quick sponsor break listeners. I'd like to tell you about another podcast called family secrets. When dani shapiro whimsically dna tests she was shocked by the results because the story she'd been told about who she was where she came from. Just was not true at turns out. She was the family secret so danny launched the hit podcast family secrets which attracted millions of listeners in its first season because as it turns out every family has secrets new new york times bestselling author danny shapiro talks with guests about their family secrets and discovering those secrets how it has changed their lives often for the better episodes are released least on thursdays. Listen and subscribe on iheartradio app apple podcasts and wherever your podcasts like we said a couple of times at this point sarah just a hail and goodies ladies. Ladies book were enormously influential under her leadership. The magazine reinforced several traditions that are a big part of life for many americans. Today things like christmas trees and white wedding dresses which were being popularized in britain. Thanks to queen. Victoria were popularized in the united states. Thanks in part to goaty ladies ladies book. The first picture of a christmas tree in the magazines pages actually was copied from an engraving that had run the illustrated london news pattern in grieving depicted queen victoria and her family around a christmas tree. The goethe's version took out the queen's crown albert sash and moustache and some german biscuits from. I'm under the tree otherwise though it was the same picture supposed to be an american family. The biggest most obvious example of hails influence in this regard is the american thanksgiving holiday in the united states thanksgiving was already celebrated in various parts of the country especially in the northeast before she became an editor hale started publicly advocating for thanksgiving holiday to be celebrated nationwide and she began that quest in eighteen thirty seven it was something that went on <hes> within within and outside the pages of these ladies book but her interest in thanksgiving holiday went back before that she had written a lot about thanksgiving before cody's as ladies book was even founded. There's a whole stretch in her first novel northwood. That's focused on thanksgiving including a new england family explaining to a visitor senator from elsewhere that it's not celebrated in the whole country but hopefully one day will be with one character saying quote thanksgiving like the fourth of july should be considered the national festival and observed by all our people. The thanksgiving meal is described in her writing this way quote the roasted turkey took precedence on this occasion occasion being placed at the head of the table and well did it become it's lordly station sending for the rich odor of it's savory stuffing and finally covered with the froth off of the basting at the foot of the board a sirloin of beef flanked on either side by a leg of pork loin of mutton seemed placed as a bastion to defend spend innumerable bowls of gravy plates of vegetables disposed in that quarter goose and pair of ducklings occupied side stations on the table. The middle title being greased as it always is on such occasions by that rich burgomaster of the provision called a chicken pie. This pie which is wholly formed of the choicest parts of fouls enriched seasoned with a profusion of butter and pepper and covered with an excellent puff paste is like the celebrated pumpkin pie an indispensable offensive part of a good entry yankee thanksgiving the size of the pie usually denoting the gratitude of the party who prepares the feasts and then it goes on to describe subside boards laden with a whole other course plus a collection of desserts including pumpkin pie. I have made some thanksgiving meals and thank thank goodness. I did not have to make all of those different fouls. This is simultaneously familiar sounding to a lot of people in terms terms of the turkey and the pie and the vast quantity of food but it also seems even bigger than like over the top thanksgiving's that a lot of people have yeah yeah by the time we got to mutton i was like are you kidding me. This was also depicting meal that was going to be for a whole lot of people but still it's a lot but there are other references to thanksgiving inhales work after that and then in eighteen thirty seven she wrote an editorial in goethe's ladies book that advocated thanksgiving bring holiday to be celebrated in every state on the last thursday of november. She started contacting state governments with this proposal along with contacting a series. He's a u._s. Presidents continuing on until president abraham lincoln gave his thanksgiving proclamation in eighteen sixty three that proclamation said in part quote it has it seems to me fit and proper that they should be solemnly reverently and gratefully acknowledged as with one heart and one voice by the whole american people. I do therefore invite my fellow citizens in every part of the united states and also those who are at sea and those who are so in foreign lands to set apart and observe the last last thursday of november next has day of thanksgiving and prayer to our beneficent father who dwell within the heavens at this point the thanksgiving holiday wasn't really the associated with a romanticized first dinner involving the pilgrims and the woman that association didn't really evolve until the late nineteenth and early twentieth his centuries so a few decades after lincoln issued his proclamation it was decades after that before thanksgiving officially became a national holiday that romanticized first thanksgiving story was reinforced in the early twentieth century through school lessons connecting it to ideas like freedom and good citizenship and construction paper pilgrim hats in my case yeah and problematic yeah kabaddi head headdresses yes quotation marks so today the first thanksgiving story and consequently the holiday as a whole has been really criticized for erasing centuries of exploitation and genocide of north america's native eight of people's at the hands of colonists the government but even without that connection to that romanticized story hails thanksgiving campaign has its own problems. What are other reasons. She was so dedicated to a national thanksgiving. Holiday goes back to her thought that slavery might tear the nation apart so she thought a national thanksgiving escaping holiday might help unify the nation in the face of its division over the issue of slavery so in other words she thought this holiday might help keep the country together together without actually addressing the underlying issue of slavery. I have so many thoughts that i'm just gonna keep in my head. <hes> hail fought slavery was wrong but and she also didn't agree with radical opposition to it she advocated the resettlement of enslaved africans in liberia where they would be free rather than the abolition russian of slavery within the united states this resettlement plan. We've talked about it on some episodes before had a lot of advocates arguing from all kinds of perspectives including meeting people of african descent who thought that this was the only way that they might truly be free and people who were simply racist and wanted the enslaved population removed for more detail. You can check out our previous episodes on marcus garvey and thomas morris chester so this same mindset also influenced the editorial direction of goethe's. He's ladies book. When hale was editing american ladies magazines she'd written various editorials that clearly stated her political opinions but goaty wanted ended the lady's book to appeal to women regardless of what their political views were and of course this wasn't a distinction he was consciously making in his mind but the default woman here was white and usually middle-class he was also interested in avoiding nationalism or any political entanglements within the pages of the journal and he also said ed quote i allow no man's religion to be attacked or sneered at or the subject of politics to be mentioned in my magazine so sometimes you'll see these ladies book described arrived as not being political but it would be more accurate to say that the magazine avoided overt political controversy really it was incredibly political nicole. It avoided direct discussion of the civil war or the movement for abolition. That's an inherently political decision instead in the years leading up to the u._s. Civil war or it published poetry essays and stories that highlighted the potential tragedies of war and also emphasized the idea of national unity. Although the hope hope was that this would avoid offending either side in reality invented the magazine's readership peaked in eighteen sixty just before the war afterward people started started gravitating toward publications where they could get news about what was happening on top of that in a different political direction goldies ladies book heavily reinforced enforced a very specific idea of what a woman should be sarah jeff. A hail believed that women were more moral and compassionate than men were inhales words quote. God has given man authority to woman influence. She wanted women to influence men's. It'd be better so that men could put their authority already to better use the magazine focused on the idea that a woman's role given by god was to be a moral force in her sphere of influence which was the home although the magazine never took a clear position one way or the other hail herself was against the idea of women suffrage because it was outside of women's sphere of influence lewin's and because women have fewer opportunities for education and political engagement thus they were less likely to be informed voters instead goads ladies book look really enforce the idea that a true woman was pious pure submissive and domestic a collection of ideas known as the cult of true womanhood or the cult hold of domesticity. Yeah that's up in a few episodes lately. Including packard versus packard incredibly common idea of what a woman was supposed to be the at the time and the elements of it continue to today. Hey you did advocate for better opportunities for women but only within this framework concluded supporting elizabeth blackwell and her efforts to become the first woman in the united states to earn m._d. Inhales mind medicine could be within a woman's spear. You're in her words written. In march of eighteen fifty to quote the study of medicine belongs to a women's department of knowledge. It's practice is in harmony with the duties of mother and nurse which she must fulfill it is not going out of her sphere to prescribe for the sick. She must do this by the fireside. The bedside in the inner chamber where her true through place is it is man who is there out of his sphere hale also advocated for women to have better educational opportunities especially when it came into an education in the liberal arts she was a huge advocate for vassar female college after its founding in eighteen sixty one as well as corresponding extensively lee with its founder matthew vassar on everything from the students dress to the number of female faculty to whether to keep the word female in the name but there were also a lot of limits to hale's advocacy for women's education all connecting back to the idea of a what a woman's sphere was for example. She didn't seem to think that women and should study the physical sciences for their own sake various articles and go. These ladies book suggests that science has a use in a woman's life like hell understanding manning scientific concepts can help keep a better home but it doesn't really support the idea that a woman should just become a chemist or physicist because she wants to and there they were also limits to which women she was writing for her and depicting in the magazine the women in the magazines famous fashion plates some of which were large enough that they were printed on fold. Doubt pages were all white all affluent with similarly attractive features and the same slender body tape they reinforce the ideas of heterosexual marriage bridge and motherhood as unifying forces in women's lives really for most of its existence the win the magazine didn't address the experience of native people or enslaved. If two people or free black people or immigrants at all in the words of a piece in the july eighteen ninety seven issue which was after hale and goaty had both died quote a little over a century ago colored women had no social status and indeed only thirty years ago the term womanhood was not large enough in this christian republic include any woman of african descent. That's from a piece that was clearly written for white women to let them know that quote the thousands of cultured and delightfully useful people women of the colored race who are worth knowing and who are prepared to cooperate with white women and all good efforts are simply up-to-date new women in the best sense of that much abused first term even so the magazine was widely read and widely respected in the words of the philadelphia city item in eighteen in seventy quote. It has been well remarked that we're go- dis is taken. There is domestic neatness comfort elegance virtue which we think is saying a good deal for the american woman. God bless cody's and keep it with us. Many years goaty sold the publication to john. Hill says hailan beak in eighteen seventy seven even after he and hailed both retired as of their retirement she was eighty nine and he was seventy three so they worked on this magazine. Almost until the end of their lives. Louis antoine goaty died the following year on november twenty ninth eighteen seventy eight sarah j hale who called herself in editors died on april thirtieth eighteen seventy nine she had continued to write for much of her life publishing poems fiction essays recipe books etiquette manuals and women's encyclopedia titled woman's record or sketches of all distinguished women from the creation to eighteen fifty four arranged in four eras with selections from female writers of every age <hes> that was all the title but in her day she was so associated with cody's ladies book that people called it. Mrs hails magazine felix pretty complicated. Yeah you know i wanna like her in some ways but that whole like narrows down at fashion thing is a problem and it's the funny thing we're just as as the magazine was <hes> claiming claiming that it did not take a political stance but obviously did <hes> because of its refusal to acknowledge certain things i feel like similarly and obviously on a much. It's more important level. That's also how she dealt with fashion rate. She's like i don't want fashion which is in itself a commentary on fashion right <hes> and she would consult on women's apparel at vassar but didn't want fashion involved. It's a fascinating thing to me. He's got a lot of contradictions. You can their scans of a lot of these <hes> lot of issues of this book that you can see online fine <hes> you can read through. I mean they're just the goes. It goes on for years. There's pages and pages step you can dive into if you were interested in little glimpses. His of life for nineteenth century white women slashed the kinds of standards. The magazine was really heavily reinforcing yeah <hes> do you have some listener mail. I surely this is from. Helen and helen has so helpfully updated us on the amendment regarding the port chicago fifty that we talked about in a previous listener mail. Helen says hi holly and tracy. I just heard your listener mail about the port chicago amendment and as someone who works a lot with congressional websites. I went ahead and pulled up the link for you. That's not actually an amendment. I believe which is probably you had trouble finding it. It's section ten ninety nine of h._r. Twenty five hundred national defense authorization act for fiscal year twenty twenty. Hopefully this link. We'll take you directly to that. Section of the resolution loved the show and always look forward to do new episodes. Helen helen got a reply for me that started with the words thank you and all capital letters because i had really kind of torn my hair out trying to find in this text having looked at the link that i think the core issue was the engrossed in house version. It was not posted yet when i was doing all this looking and that's where it is. I don't recall seeing that option the drop down when i was doing my search for it but anyway this here is the actual text of it. It is sense of congress regarding the port chicago fifty. It is the sense of congress that one the american people should recognize the role of racial bias in the prosecution and convictions of the port chicago fifty following the deadliest homefront disaster in world war two to the military records of each of the port chicago fifty should reflect such exoneration of any and all charges brought against them in the aftermath of the explosion and three are- the secretary of the navy should upgrade the general summary discharges of each of the port chicago fifty sailors too honorable discharges so as of right this minute. This is not something that has passed both houses of congress and been signed into law yet. It is something that that that made its way through the house back in july so thank you again helen for sending that to me because i probably would not have gone back to look for it again. <hes> and thanks to everybody who sends us helpful awesome emails or just says hi or since pictures of cats if you would like to write to us about this or any other podcast britt history podcasts at how stuff works dot com and then we're all over social media at missed in history that three oh find our facebook twitter pinterest and instagram you can come to our website which is missed in history dot com where you'll find show notes of all the episodes holly and i worked on together and searchable archive of every episode ever and you can subscribe to our show on apple podcasts the iheartradio app and wherever else at your podcast stuff you missed in history class a production of iheartradio's. How stuff works for more podcasts for my heart radio visit iheartradio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows my name is danny shapiro and i'm the host of family secrets a podcast about the secrets kept from must secrets we keep from others and the secrets we keep from ourselves. Family secrets is a show where you can hear powerful stories of heartbreak healing and hope nope listen to season two family secrets on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Thanks-myth-ing (ep. 135)
"Today's episode is brought to you by the your brain on facts book which you can order online from a local retailer by visiting bookshop dot org as well as moxie labouchere voiceovers offering a fifty percent discount to my listeners. You can email me moxie at your brain. On facts dot com most without equal for this recipe you will need one each skylark thrush quayle ortolan lapping. Golden plover partridge woodcock. -til guinea hen guinea fowl. Wild duck red pheasant. Wild goose boostered and fake pecker pluck and got the birds then stuff the smallest bird into the next smallest birds cavity and so on until you have one neutron star of bird meet paraphrased from seventeenth century cookbook and you thought her duck in was a new thing. My name's moxy. And this is your brain on facts. Two days after this episode drops. It is thanksgiving in the united states and the supporters at patriot. Dot com slash. Your brain on facts voted to go. Turkey talk today. So let's go through the myths and misconceptions by working our way through a painting an odd choice as this is an audio only medium. Certainly luckily we don't have to pick just one painting. Most paintings depicting the first thanksgiving in giant air quotes of sixteen twenty. One contain the same things about of puritan settlers dressed in austere black clothing. With bright metal buckles gathered around a table laden with food. Maybe the family patriarch is offering a prayer and a small group of native americans can be seen in the background. Maybe one or two in the foreground. If i were to show you jennie. Augusta browns combs. The first thanksgiving or the first thanksgiving by louise jerome farris painted within a year of each other in the early twentieth century. Incidentally you'd say oh. Yeah that was in my history book which year all of them probably. That's how we've been taught to think of historical thanksgiving's but we're not school kids anymore. So it's time to update that image paintings of the first thanksgiving referred to that feast in sixteen twenty one in plymouth massachusetts. What we actually know about the feast. Concretely is very limited. It mostly comes from a single letter. Written by a communist named edward winslow two hundred and twenty years later in eighteen forty one. His letter was published in chronicles. Of the pilgrim fathers by boston writer and publisher alexander young and it was young. Who called the gathering. The first thanksgiving even though the word thanksgiving doesn't appear anywhere in winslow's letter that feast wouldn't have been thanksgiving to the pilgrims. Puritans did observe thanksgiving days after fortunate events like a good harvest. The were religious observances. People spent the day in church often in silent prayer and they fasted rather than feasted. It's almost the polar opposite of the way we celebrate thanksgiving today. So that day wasn't thanksgiving and it wasn't even the first for a few reasons for starters. It didn't happen a second time. Let alone annually. So it can hardly be said to be the first of anything it would take more than two hundred years for an autumn. Feast referred to as thanksgiving too widely proliferate second. It wasn't the first meal shared by europeans and native americans in the new world. A reasonable drive from my home here in. Virginia is the berkeley plantation where a thanksgiving feast was held this one by the europeans alone. Three dozen settlers arrived in the chesapeake bay in sixteen nineteen on a ship. Captain by a man who had survived the winter of sixteen o nine in the jamestown colony a winter referred to as the starving time after a rough two and a half months at sea and another week on inland waterways. They finally arrived at berkeley hundred later called berkeley plantation on december fourth. They disembarked assembled a meal. From what shifts rations. They still had ham and wasters probably and said prayers of thanksgiving. It was declared that their arrival must be yearly and perpetually kept holy as a day of thanksgiving to almighty god end so it was for two whole years in march of sixteen twenty two. The poyton having noticed that the settlers weren't leaving and in fact were expanding their territory and kept trying to convert and civilize them attacked berkeley and other settlements killing over three hundred fair playboys if you ask historians in maine they'll tell you the first. Such meal happened not in sixteen twenty one in massachusetts but in sixteen. O seven in papa main. The popham colony barely lasted a year. Thanks to a fire in their storehouse during the particularly harsh winter and miscalculations like staying in a four right on the shore rather than moving inland where the forest could provide a windbreak. They arrived in the summer shared a meal with the locals that october and called it quits the following spring. Don't tell the mainers though. But they may have been beaten to i east by fifty years by florida of all places in september fifteen sixty five eight hundred spanish colonists under captain and priest father francisco lopez disembarked on what they would dub saint augustine and gathered around a makeshift altar for a thanksgiving mass. All the while being watched by the local to mccullough tribe. The spanish invited the timothy coons to join them for a meal. It was the first community act of religion and thanksgiving in the first permanent settlement in the land wrote university of florida professor. Emeritus of history. Michael gannon in his book. The cross in the sand as what happened at berkeley hundred. The feast was mostly leftovers from the ship but isn't leftovers. What the thanksgiving meal is really about. Some historians argued that while america's first thanksgiving indeed did take place in florida. It was actually forty miles north and one year earlier when french huguenot s- held a thanksgiving mass and feasted with tim coons to celebrate the june fifteen sixty four establishment of fort caroline in present day jacksonville and then there's texas which claims to have had the first new world thanksgiving way back in fifteen forty one. When thanksgiving mass was held for fifteen hundred conquistadores under coronado. I feel kind of linda richmond from saturday. Night live the first. Thanksgiving was neither i nor thanksgiving discuss. Ever wonder how the europeans were able to communicate with the native americans effectively enough to invite them to dinner and not sit in an awkward silence in march sixteen. Twenty one and abachi man who history records as sama set made first contact with the pilgrims by walking right up to them and asking in english. If they had any beer he had learned english from fishermen who frequented the waters of maine but it was limited a week later he approached the settlement again with someone who could parlay better someone. You may have heard of scotto. The last surviving member of the pawtuxet squad had had a lot of exposure to europeans like a lot a lot. He'd been kidnapped by a british ship in sixteen. O five lived in england for nine years returned to north america than a different british ship kidnapped him and tried to sell them into slavery in spain. Some spanish friars rescued him and he made his way back to london. Took his ship that landed in newfoundland where he was dismayed to discover. It was too long walk from home. So he went back to england where he signed up for an exploration to new england and what back across the atlantic for an unbelievable sixth time. At which point. He was fluent in english and familiar with european customs. If you're all about gathering virtually this year which. I sincerely sincerely hope you are. You can also hang out with some like minded folks who promise not to talk politics on our to group pages facebook dot com slash groups slash brainiac. Break room or over on. Read it at our slash your brain on facts post anything you find online that you like. It doesn't have to be strictly educational. It can just be for fun hop on in and say hello to your fellow brainiacs and if you need to find the perfect gift for a fellow brainiac good news. I've got a t public store. You can get there by going to bit dot l. y. slash y. b. o. f. Merch there you can get a phone case with the brain logo coffee mug that says it is better of course to know useless things then to know nothing or my personal favorite. I'm very proud of this. A t shirt with what looks like a name badge. This hello my name is but the bottom i added. And this is your brain on facts so feel free to sharpie your own name in and pretend to be the host of the show bit dot li slash y bov merch back to the paintings. Though they're also set too late in the fall. We celebrate thanksgiving on the fourth thursday of november but that is way too late for harvest festival. The meal probably took place in late september and was a tradition. The colonists brought with them harvest. Celebration feasts are not unique. Many native tribes celebrated the end of the growing season. As did people back in jolly old england and all across europe and had for as long as mankind. Survival had been dependent on the cycle of the seasons in england and ireland. The festival became known as harvest home. Whoever cut the last sheaf of green was known as the lord of the harvest in some parts of england a harvest queen was chosen. The village church would be decorated with autumn. Flowers and vegetables and a loaf of bread made from the newly harvested wheat was placed on the altar and people came to the church to give thanks to god for the harvest. Once all the grain was put up. It was time to feast traditional foods. Include roast beef and ale accompanied by autumn vegetables that last chief of grain was displayed prominently and at the dance that followed the girl who tied the last. Sheaf was the first dance with the farmer. On whose land it was. Or his eldest son so the pilgrims harvest festival traditions. I should probably take a minute here. To clear. up your imagining of. Pilgrim's pilgrim just means a person who journeys to a sacred place for religious reasons. But when you say in america we think of the early puritan settlers puritans being members of a religious reform movement that arose within the church of england in the late sixteenth century. Who believed that. The church of england was too similar to the roman catholic church and should eliminate any ceremonies and practices not expressly listed in the bible which includes things celebrating christmas. We're taught that they left england to escape religious persecution except by the time they sailed for america. They had already done that. They emigrated from england to holland where they had all the religious freedom they could ask for but they couldn't get a foothold financially. Some are also worried about assimilating into dutch culture so off across the ocean they went according to james lohan sociologist and author of lies. My teacher told me everything. Your american history textbook got wrong. They were also coming here in order to establish a religious theocracy which they did. That's not exactly the same as coming here for religious freedom. It's kind of coming here against religious freedom also the pilgrims never called themselves pilgrims. They were separatists. The term pilgrims wasn't applied to them until around eighteen eighty and as for the austere black clothing with metal buckles on the shoes which makes sense in on the hat which makes no sense whatsoever. That is as much from an artist's imagination as horns on viking helmet black and gray will reserved for sunday and since the feast wasn't a religious observance. They would have just worn their regular clothes which came in every color they had dye for leather was also preferred for closing shoes. Cinching wastes because it is much much cheaper. We also need to set aside the cute story that the plymouth colonists invited the local wanted to dine with them in thanks for helping with their farming. The woman along just showed up and not the three or four. You see in the paintings wins. Letter says that there were many of the indians coming amongst us and among the rest their greatest king masses so it with some ninety men whom for three days we entertained and feasted only about fifty colonists. Were still alive at that point so there would have been twice as many walpin on as there were brits. Well if the woman didn't teach the settlers to farm they at least introduce them to turkey wrong again. Europeans knew all about turkey's spanish explorers brought domesticated turkeys back from the new world in the previous century and turkeys were appearing on english menus. No later than fifteen fifty turkey may or may not have been on the plymouth table but if it was it wasn't the centerpiece winslow wrote home to a friend. Our harvest being gotten in our governor sent four men on fouling that so we might after. A special manner rejoiced together after we had gathered the fruits of our labors. They four in one day killed as much foul as with a little help. Besides served the company almost a week. Let's pause for a moment here in talk turkey. I'll show myself out. We know more false things about turkey's than we do real things like if they're outside and it rains they'll stare up into the sky with their beaks open and drown or ben franklin's campaign to make the turkey the national bird of the fledgling no pun intended country franklin liked turkeys but we only have evidence of him making one mention of it far below the standard of evidence for a flat out campaign two years after the approval of the now familiar seal with the bald eagle franklin wrote in a letter to his daughter that was primarily concerned with a military fraternity franklin disapproved of for my part the worst. The bald eagle had never been chosen representative our country. Vigo is a bird of bad. Moral character does not get its living honestly because it steals food from the fishing hawk and his too lazy to fish for himself franklin had proposed a different great seal one depicting moses. The red sea turkeys. Don't all gobble. That trick is reserved almost exclusively for the males and turkeys can do more than just gobble. Hens make high pitched yelps and strutting. Tom's produce a non vocal thump. Like a bass drum majors an females like sound a choppy series of honks as an alarm when they suspect predators and contrary to my father's favourite piece of thanksgiving television. That one episode of w k rpg scottish my witness. i thought turkeys could fly. Turkeys can fly. Wild turkeys can easily fly one hundred yards. But they don't bother unless they're escaping predation or getting into a tree to roost. The broad breasted breeds developed for industrial agriculture however cannot fly because they are strength to mass ratio is completely out of whack in fact and i want to underline that this next thing is a fact and not a myth modern farmed turkeys. Not only cannot fly. They can't mate the broad breasted white. The most common commercial breed is bred to efficiently convert feed to meet at a ratio of two to one. Meaning you only have to put two pounds of feed into them for every pound of meat you get. They reach market weight and only sixteen weeks which means that they grow so fast they have difficulty standing and walking because their legs can't keep up with the weight gain the giant breasts that we so enjoy are much too large to allow tom to effectively mount a hen. The result of this is that nearly one hundred percent of commercial domestic turkeys are the product of artificial insemination. And guess how it's done with an aspirin under that. Looks like a tiny siphon for stealing gas i am told a worker sucks the semen from the tom turkey with a tube. That has a containment vessel in the middle to then deposit into the hens and one assumes he doesn't draw too hard more than once but let's move past all of that to the head. Feet feathers organs gone stage. You take the wrapper off the bird and now the big question to rinse or not to rinse grandma might have told you. It's necessary to get rid of salmonella but in reality if your turkey has salmonella all the rinsing will do is spread it around an exception to that being if you bryant it because you'll need to rinse off all the herbs and flavorings and stuff. I always brian mine. And if you've never spatchcock butterflied your turkey. Definitely try it. It cooks in much less time. Meaning it's less prone to drying out and right off the bat. Get rid of the plastic pop-up thermometer even if they behaved reliably which don't they're set to pop at one hundred eighty degrees fahrenheit or eighty two degrees celsius which would leave you with a giant pile of meet with all the flavor and juice of stack of paper napkins. And toko pinning the blame for your food coma on the poor turkey. Yes turkeys do contain an essential amino acid l tryptophan. Which the body uses to make serotonin and melatonin. But not you know a lot of it to get enough trip to fan into your system to knock you out. Before halftime in the lions game you'd have to consume a massive dose of pure tryptophan. What are the detroit. Lions always have a game on thanksgiving day anyway. The idea to play on the holiday came from lions owner. George richards in nineteen thirty four. Who wanted to attract more fans to what was then the second-string team in town. Unlike religion-based holidays thanksgiving is an american holiday. And was pretty much guaranteed day off. For the industrial workforce that was the lifeblood of the motor city. Richards owned a radio station. That was a major nbc affiliate and he negotiated a deal with nbc to broadcast the lions game on thanksgiving to almost a hundred stations across the country and thus a tradition was born. If you not off during the game you're more likely sugar crashing from the giant plate of carbs followed by three kinds of pie with whipped cream. And if you're a dark meat fan. Good news while white. Meat has fewer fat and calories. Dark meat offers greater density of nutrients like iron and b-vitamins. This is where i would reinforce. Or debunk the claim that the terms white meat dark meat were victorian euphemisms for breast and thigh. And while i find a great deal of repetition of this fact none of it refers to a source. So we'll just have to leave an asterisk on that one. What else was on the table in. Sixteen twenty one. The woman brought in four deer that they'd hunted earlier that day venison was a special food back in england so this gift was a much bigger deal to the recipients than the givers william bradford. The governor winslow mentions in his letters described embassies waterfowl. There was great store of wild turkeys of which took many besides venison etc. Besides they had about a pack a meal a week to a person or now since harvest indian corn to that proportion for those who think the presence of indian corn means popcorn. I am sorry to disabuse you. But no this smith comes from a specific source. The eighteen eighty nine novel. Standish of standish by jane austen with an i not jane austen with me. The corn that grew in plymouth was northern flint corn. Which doesn't have the strong colonel needed to hold in the pressure of the moisture turning to steam before finally bursting out into fluffy white popcorn. One thing i'm thankful for is all the folks who take time to leave reviews either for the podcast or for the book like k. k. s f. who gave the book five stars and said fun and entertainment. Everyone could use some non television related entertainment now and that's where moxie brain on facts. Come in use your brain and enjoy yourself with her wonderful stories factoid. An amazing knowledge and trivia fun for the whole family without any screen time. Thank you for that k. K. s. F the podcast itself. Got a five star review from kelley over on pod chaser dot com which is like the amd of podcasts. It's a great resource for finding other podcasts. Your favorite host has been on as well as reviewing shows if your podcast app doesn't have a review function. Kelly said what may seem like completely irrelevant. Facts have actually immensely enhanced my conversations. Somehow i ended up using facts from the podcast in my conversations. Weekly this is the very first podcast. I ever listened to and is pretty much my go to i've only ever strayed to listen to guest podcast channels which are pretty good too but moxie is the best. She has the best way of adding humor and not to mention her smooth segues love love love it and i love love. Love you kelly. And if you'd like to hear your opinions in my voice leave us a review. Either for the book or the podcast. I promise to try to read each and everyone on the show. None of my research has indicated that there would have been a dish like dressing or stuffing but nothing explicitly said that there wouldn't have been either dressing. Stuffing is good way to use up stale bread. Which assumes you're doing well enough at the time to have bread around long enough to go stale and on the nomenclature you may subscribe to the idea. That moistened croutons cooked inside. A bird is stuffing and cooked in. A dish is dressing but it's actually geography that tends to determine which word people use according to southern living magazine which tract which word people used when searching for recipes dressing is said to be more common in the south regardless of how it's prepared while stuffing is more common in the north the butterball turkey company on the other hand found the states where people say dressing most often actually sprinkled all across the country. You've probably heard of the butterball. Helpline and the hapless crises callers. Half like a man who put the still wrapped frozen turkey into the bathtub with his kids to thought or the woman. Who's chihuahua got inside the turkey and refused to come out. The turkey talk line is still going strong even when people could just shout. Hey magic lady didn't want to set us off and try to get an answer from their phone or smart speaker you can also call their competitors purdue and honeysuckle white or the us department of meat and poultry hotline. There was even a time in the nineteen seventies. When you could call julia child for help. Not because she was offering it as a service but because her number was in the phone book and some people thought. i wonder. if it's that julia child we've established there was lots of meat but no potatoes mashed sweet or otherwise white potatoes originating in south america and sweet potatoes from the caribbean had yet to infiltrate north america. Cranberry sauce might have been there but it would have been as a tart sauce for the meat not a side dish. Whole unto itself cranberries need a lot of sugar to be edible and that was a precious resource by the way if you're the kind of person that only likes whole cranberry sauce and likes to dunk on the people who adore the jellied tubes. Slurping out of the can just let us have it. It's fine. they're both wonderful but the preciousness of sugar was one of the reasons there were also no dessert pies at the feast pies also require flour and butter for the crust which was in short supply. And you know an oven to bake it in which the puritans didn't have yet. They did have pumpkins. which were often used like tureens. A big edible pot in which soup could simmer next to the fire. When you go to make your pumpkin pie and you reach for that orange labeled can the pie. You make may not actually be pumpkin. This fact i've been dropping on customers at the grocery store. Your i'm back in retail and with such good timing. She sark as though. I may be oversimplifying it slightly. The liberties company makes about eighty five percent of the canned. Pumpkin paret sold worldwide. But they don't use field pumpkins the ones we liked to carve or sugar pumpkins the small ones. You might grow in your own garden. They use a dickinson squash and orange flesh squash the size of a good pumpkin but with paler skin and more oblong or acorn like shape. How can they get away with lying to us like that. The fda allows you to slap the pumpkin label on any golden fleshed sweet squash or mixture of such squash and feel pumpkin. So that would include butternut squash which is a great substitute for pumpkin. Pinch check the freezer case for diced. Butternut if you don't have time to roast one off folks with opinions about this sort of thing disagree on whether the dickinson squash or pumpkins with one camp saying they are and the other camps saying they're not and me off to the side pointing out a pumpkin is a squash anyway. Check your nearest heirloom seed catalog. Because dickinson's aren't proprietary to libby and you can grow them yourself so if the first thanksgiving was a one off how did he become so deeply entrenched in american life the dogmatic puritans of the seventeenth century evolved into the eighteenth centuries more cosmopolitan yankees and the emotional importance of new england. Family gathered together around a table far outstripped the dwindling religious significance westward expansion and the popular press helped spread the new england tradition to the rest of the nation. The continental congress proclaimed the first national thanksgiving in seventeen seventy seven. But that was more. Like what the puritan thanksgiving had been. And not what. The new england thanksgiving had become recommending quote that servile labor and such recreations. Although at other times innocent may be unbecoming the purpose of this appointment and should be omitted on so solemn occasion so no touch. Football presidents washington adams monroe proclaimed national thanksgiving's but thomas jefferson was not a fan. It was entirely to church for him. And jefferson was quite keen on keeping church and state a separate as possible in a letter to reverend samuel miller in eighteen. O eight jefferson wrote. I consider the government of the united states as an addictive by the constitution from in a meddling with religious institutions their doctrines disciplined or exercises certainly no power to prescribe any religious exercise or to assume authority in religious discipline has been delegated to the general government but it is only proposed that i should recommend not prescribe a day of fasting embraer. That is that. I should indirectly assumed to the united states and authority religious exercises which the constitution has directly precluded them from it then fell to individual states and territories to declare. Thanks giving when and if they chose to which by the eighteen fifties almost all of them did. Many people felt that this family holiday should be a national celebration particularly sarah. Josefa handle the influential editor of the popular women's magazine. Goethe's ladies book and the author of. Mary had a little lamb in eighteen. Twenty seven to campaign to reinstate the holiday after the model of the first president's she publicly petitioned several presidents to make it an annual event. Her efforts finally succeeded in eighteen. Sixty three when she was able to convince president lincoln that a national thanksgiving might serve to unite a country torn apart by civil war. The president declared to national thanksgiving's dot year one for august. Sixth celebrating the victory gettysburg the second for the last thursday in november neither linkin nor his successors however made the holiday a fixed repeating event. A president still had to proclaim thanksgiving each year and the last thursday in november became the customary date. What linkin did do was to pardon a turkey. But it was a christmas turkey for my listeners and other countries and i wanna take a second to shout out eric in england who i jokingly asked to find some milk vodka and taste it for me and he only went and did it so big round of applause for eric. We have a tradition. In which the president pardons a thanksgiving turkey. So it won't be killed and eaten. It's puppy dog news at best but it's tradition. The turkeys used to live their lives out at the ironically threateningly named frying pan farm park in northern virginia. But from two thousand five two thousand nine the pardon turkeys were sent to live at a disney park where they were the honorary grand marshal of the disney thanksgiving day parade in eighteen sixty three. The lincoln family received turkey as a gift with the intent that it be christmas dinner. But ten-year-old tad lincoln got attached the turkey which he named jack shortly before jack's execution tad figured out what was going on. He successfully stalled. The person tasked with dispatching the bird and ran into a cabinet meeting crying talking. I don't want him kill unable to say. No lincoln pardoned the bird. Many people think the modern turkey pardoning tradition began with harry s. truman who did receive a bird from the national turkey federation but most likely eight though from his administration onward presidents received turkeys for the holiday. Jfk didn't eat his but it was the press that brought the word. Pardon into the situation. Nixon sent at least some of his turkeys to petting zoos. Reagan used the word. Pardon but only jokingly it was actually president. George h w bush who officially said. Let me assure you this fine. Tom turkey that he will not end up on anyone's dinner table out this. He's granted a presidential part as of right now so back to the date for thanksgiving. We have a holiday. That could happen whenever but it set for the last thursday in november. Because that's what the guy before you did. Enter franklin delano roosevelt in nineteen thirty nine under pressure from retailers and in an effort to stimulate the economy at the end of the great depression he lengthened the christmas shopping season by moving thanksgiving to the second to last thursday in november. The thought behind this was that if the final thursday coincided with the last day of the month as it would have in nineteen thirty nine it cut the holiday shopping season short. People were not happy about it. Specifically or in general people refer to it as franksgiving stores ran ads. Saying things like buy your turkey now because who knows when thanksgiving will be but it was all sound and fury signifying nothing. Two years later in one thousand nine hundred forty one congress responded by permanently establishing the holiday as the fourth thursday in the month. And that's where we run out of ideas At least for today the tur- duck in a chicken inside a duck inside a turkey which has five times. The calories of the turkey alone is not a new dish. Cooks in the roman empire might have made a telescoping dish called a farce which starts with the smallest rodent and might go all the way up to an ox the creator of the tur- duck and specifically is up for debate but many traces its roots to louisiana base chef and dom deluise impersonator paul prudhomme who claim to have invented it. Remember you can always find the script and the source links set your brain on facts dot com and a special thanks to our guest voices as benjamin franklin and thomas jefferson. You heard john and rhodesian from the old nerd drinking podcast. You should definitely check out and in the role of tad lincoln an aspiring. Little voice actor named patrick. Thanks for spending part of your day with me and stay safe.
The Babylon Bee Thanksgiving Special 2020
"In a world of fake news we bring you up to the minute. Factual inaccuracy and a heavy dose of moral truth with your hosts kyle man and ethan nicolle. This is the babylon be fake news. You can trust. Hello everyone you can't tell right now. But i'm smiling because i'm wearing a mask. This is thanksgiving but this year thanksgiving is a little different than under years because of the pandemic our governor has said that we can't meet together. We have to cancel thanksgiving. We have to wear masks all kinds of rules. And of course we at the babylon have paid close attention to governors orders. Because of this this year for thanksgiving we decided they were going to pack the entire crew into this little room and get as close together as possible. Happy thanksgiving everybody. Welcome to the babylon be thanksgiving special. So let's do our customary toast that we came up with. We've from the bible snow respect. Everyone everyone a be everywhere all right. Let's pray and we'll dig in all right dear. God you've given us a lot to be thankful for this year even though it's twenty twenty and we've got a little a lot of crazy stuff going on you. Thank you for all the good things in our lives. We thank you for giving us cool jobs where we get to tell jokes and and maybe you communicate some truth. Thank you for turkey. Thank you for food. Thank you for non alcoholic beverages that we get to enjoy. jesus name i pray amen. Hey man all right sisters. Here's your thanks giving to spend whisper. Yeah so we can. We can't sing right. is that sing. Sing below speaking level is going to be hard for you. I like what did you say was like or movie or something like going to is here too key with some cheese. Should we introduce this at the table. Yeah okay so are these cheap about won't be. This is ethan creative director. Whatever that is yeah make us producer. Dan i the podcast he goes back. They're doing style and our and our and our favorite cackling patty a job. That's why we hired. Listen you've found. Podcasts turned into friends. Bang theory or something. Yeah the majority of reviews like him. We get some hate but is funny people. I love the comments word. They're attributing it to me like tail. Dan dan takes that. Dan just started taking. Some new hallucinogen became older guy. And i'm matt man. You're listening david. I know full set which we'll see it all the images and everything true. Ask me well done sir. thank you matt. set this all up. It was his vision. You're gonna see the subscription subscriber lounge after this. I think i think it's just a meal today. We're going to play the cop videos. Oh there it is. We are trying to get that out tomorrow. 'cause name releases tomorrow. If that's necessarily that'll be the subscriber lubbock. We need to see owen wilson. I feel bad for the sound of chewing people's i and fix that video or hours of chewing. Well yeah and everything's supposed to go around the table and thankful for is troop l. Told me dead possum story. I think of you tell a lot of stories like miley thanksgiving story. Is this a good dinner table. Conversation as more of a desert comes. I really like the kid. I never seen a real only seen them in books. We went out to see the family at this cabin in oregon milwaukee and on the way out there i saw dead possum. The road and i was so excited. I was like seven or eight thanksgiving table. They had already do a prayer where everybody thank god for. Our country is mainly are three greatest country on earth. Thank the lord for the salvation. Dying for us and it gets me. I go thank you that i saw dead possible. The road probably have more sincerity than anybody else. Tears your attitude. Write a book about this. Well i'm thankful for. Thank for the babble on beeman man. i mean dan. We're told the story before. But dan were beaten our brains out working construction on the supply side of the construction industry. So have you ever been in a sales job. It's very high pressure high stress. You know time oriented getting calls in the middle of the night like all of those lou and we needed to repair coupling now explode move. It's just constant nightmares. Wake up in the middle of the night. I forgot to load the truck with blah blah blah. That kind of stuff. And i mean i really am thankful that kind of ordained things that i would get this gig because there's probably people that are a lot funnier than me. That could have gotten it. But i mean just the way. I was on facebook at work. We're going to be worked with so fulfilling right. Babylon the article. While you're supposed to be well as old news. Now get fired again. So you're gonna win back. And i mean i i saw adams post relaunching avalon and it was like i really felt like. I can't believe this doesn't already exist. This satai dry satire. that doesn't hate christians. You know as well wanna make fun of christians a little bit from from within you know it was loaded for signed for me so i'm definitely thankful for my life as i told my wife last night in our life is amazing. We have stress. We have things we do. We're just like to do this. Reason three boys and we sat outside last night by the fire and we fire pit and we just throw a log on there and we sat out there just looking up at the stars like man. Why is good your those with the chesterton thing at the end of heretics where he says that You know we look at the world and we have to defend it now. And i don't know i look at the world is being good. I don't know the world is good. Originally good not just ultimately good as good things in the world. We don't want you to have to work too much scarves. Throw the chesterton. June sound money. You can just do it now to announce chester. It's never going back to go back. There's a whole nats annuity format you spent so much time getting. I just say time this perfect. Yeah yeah that's true in payroll it evens out. You'll find nail there in the brick. I'm thankful for the b for a couple of reasons. I think one thing is i mean. I'm at an age where it's you don't expect to meet like really friends and the people that you're like you know they're gonna be like transfer light click with. Yeah you know you just kind of accept your old friends who people are going to carry on with. So i know you guys are gonna be my best friends real life insys biscuits. We break them together. Yes our families hang out. Families love each other you know. So that's one. And then the other thing is i always stop it. I'd have to pick. I'm a guy who was born with a lot of random talents. I can't throw a basketball can't do that. Can't do anything arts creative. I seem to have a knack for it. And i love all those things and i can't do it For all of them for career you have to pick one and the get to exercise all those things. I get to seeing right. I get to make jokes against write scripts. I get to dry. Get to do animation like comet to do some photoshop's get to just lay out books. Run the gamut of the things that i'm good at and i don't know if i could find another job to do that so i feel like i love the b brings out all the best qualities of me and i get to do podcasts and talk being from a camera and all the things i never thought it'd be doing now like like half those things more than half. Those things are mentioned things you made up as part of your job. You can't do that at a construction job making some cartoon odd man. Well we like you to keep you around. Will the babylon it'd be really saved my but because science. I i have a business outside of out outside of here. In a gathering place people come and enjoy themselves kind of family. Entertainment big place here in southern california. It's just family entertainment something for everybody and so he was shut down. And and so. We're trying not to become a statistic over there and down lockdown lockdown wise. Yeah so in. So it's been it's been a bit of a struggle and we didn't have a great internet over there and so everyone was saying you need to go online. You can go online. And i like the brick and mortar thing. i. I haven't been the online guy and then tonight we've been smoking at cigar shop right here and i've known you for a long time kyle and took took a saying he took my company in and let us borrow your the old office little space high speed internet yet. All the tech. Yeah these cameras and such and let me come in. Turn it into a little painting studio and do our painting events online and it really got us through. I think what. I hope is the worst of it. And as as we as we navigate reopening now and but that was a lot of fun and so when you guys were moving into this place. I got the itch just like you know these. These unrealized talents like podcasting and ar animation. And all of this. This is like a place that all that can come to life. I feel like man. We can really build something really cool and that was a lot of fun. So thanks guys vacant studios awesome because of you being on board. We won't move into this building. It would have been a white. And i was like pulling my hair out thinking like i know i need. We need to make this great. Didn't have you know we had the bandwidth desk that we came in that setup. Yeah we all had giant lawyer like huge three ton there's obviously company in pasadena california saying is like we moved in here. This whole said the lounge said it was all just a dream of like a one day. Make something awesome. Yeah anything it'd be like a month or to schedule this floor plan when we came in and i was thinking okay. We'll do allow cheer. We'll do set here on this will work. And i'm like and i go on amazon. Doodling like cloth backgrounds for podcasts. Yeah i am so glad. We didn't go that route because this is pretty great very cool din patrick and he Gratitude costs are you guys thankful for anything no i think. I'm thankful for the d. too. I remember when i saw the posting online. I thought it was crazy to be was even near me. And i came to it i interviewed with ethan and i remember during the interview. I made a reference adaptation the movie and even hadn't seen it and i was like on now. I took left leaving going guys my reverence. The movie to at least you didn't reference a star wars be completely lost. Thank you for your. I tend to give people the first impression that i don't like them found out hard. Interviewer wasn't sure. Yeah it just was unsure. I just think it did it work. And then i got the call and i was like wow 'cause it was like it's cool just seeing the how about all the other guys i know right. Yeah because i feel bad saying it too because it's like twenty twenty was been bad persona people but for me it's been so it's like getting this job. It's been nice because the ads like you like doing so many different things as being really cold at yale. A little checklist of things. Do you get to creatively commute. Especially in the especially creative director did you. We all own take ownership of our jobs. Did you audition patrick's when you came. And that was a bonus s. I think i would be very house trying to be very quiet. And i was skeptical. I was. I was not a patrick. Lafley they say me. But i wanted to do that but and i don't know man patrick. We'd be quiet behind the scenes and then everyone started loving it and so so now. I allow my son. Michael mouse was my first one. And i think i just thought it was fun so go like dan was laughing like i guess i can talk chuckling. Chuckles there's like zero people who know me who are surprised at all loudly. It's nice that we can see you now because you're right over on the desks. It used to be that we would see the reflection of the back of dance lights through the glass door thing. Dan and if he thought it was funny. You'd see him doing this a lot of this. I thought it was kinda helps. Everyone to joke landed. I had some comments about Like background laughter on a pad. Podcast is the new studio audience accounting. And so i think that's. That's that's something special so we're going to get applause lights you know and so do we guinea pie should we should make it. What is going out. Just just pure pumpkins in kansas. Just to get you some cookies. The cupboard audio listeners. You can't pumpkin. Yeah we need to like the on right now either. Holds a cane the pumpkin album. Like that one time where i was like. Listen to it and this guy came on the screen it was like. Hey this guy he He didn't really funny move where he kind of the audience. Back copy so weird dan. I'm definitely grateful for the babylon be. Give me a job. Basically getting the off. St joe's delivery driver off the street and literally literally. I basically i get to work with my friends. Every day and We get to make content. That you know has jesus in it. Shamed of jesus and talks to things that are going on a culture that seems like other people tell you you can't talk about these things in the culture and we have we have a platform and a podcast where we can talk to anybody. Talking everybody get different views. Get different people not be ashamed of. Jesus talk about what's going on in the world when you have things on twitter saying oh. This is in fact checking. You can't talk about this so like being able to talk about. Things is like a huge yacht like a place of sanity defending sanity lack of me or oh we have meet really awesome people every race. Like oh here's a comedian here like we went to d. rubin's studio like ruben studio. This amazing just the. I two years ago if i ever bought interview litter like on youtube and i never thought i never thought i'd be in that position so it's really cool. Yeah i was just telling dan how like last year. I was painting a theatre set. Visiting the joe rose over. the meeting. nine trip is going to be next week or so. Yeah i guess she's been on them and that's true but only audio actually. The first guests are allowed. Yes very nice. Very festive right now. So i'm wearing christmas sweaters today. Tunes or friend rift tunes. The calvin john calvin say no one is not one has a good bad list. He's gonna everybody's on the battle of mistakes are why didn't mean for everybody to say. The babylon got off to work. Not the script is a seriously sincerely grateful. For the babylon be of course and god in all the subscribers gravel the god that we have jobs at all great for our families and whatever relative. You know health and blessings that we have now. I mean like in. Christ we have everything you think before for sure. I think we were talking yesterday about jordan. Peterson's twelve rules for life and he's talking about his daughter's health issues and at the end he kind of gives this inspiring story about how that came out of the health issues and then he goes things are i think they both ends. All those things are good for. Now it's like forboding. But since i do love the realism of like i am very grateful. That things are okay for now. I mean things could go to heck to the next year and very second earthquake have a a g k chesterton essay. We can read. Maybe we want to read it in and pass it around on gratitude. I also some thanksgiving fun facts and we have some fun facts about thanksgiving justin talks about. It's a little Of his essays. It was a little earlier. So it's a little dense and he's still kind of refining his style but he kind of talks about how if you're mad about anything it's only because you have things to be grateful for that exists like do you ever remember like i don't have this like that's just because of the miracle that things actually existing you love them and he he has this great thing about how you get horrified when you walk into a room and see dead body like this is horrifying. Shouldn't you be shocked. Enjoy when you see a live person. There's a man here and then the end of the thing. I don't know but at the end he basically says you have someone to pass muster and you're grateful for the mustard and then he says but you'd never think about like there is a being next to me. That knows me when i say past the mustard and automatically reaches out. And he's like and then he says we should build statues to the man who passed the show all spoilers. That's basically. I don't worried it's going to be but alex. Summarize thing rose. We take it for granted. The sun goes off. The sun goes down every day. It just seems normal but like we just never stop and think like the miracle that the sun rises every. How like. I think in that essay on thinking of you kinda tough about like god being a child dude again. Just do it again like. He's delighted sun's coming up. He says her father is like a child as young as we who have grown old. We don't like the repetition. Yeah well and we assume that the sun will rise l. Just scientific process whiteside is in god just saying doing in every morning and he's still delighted by i think i think there's a a what would otherwise be considered foolishness the world that we christians have the ability to you'll lose everything and still find every reason to be joyful even in the midst of pandemic and having to manage shutting down. How do we reinvent ourselves with my company. and granted god is good in. This would have never happened for getting this company. Sitting down at this table and eating food with you all would never have happened. Had not the pandemic happen and reminds me of romans. Eight twenty eight. That god works all things together for good for those called according to his purpose. And and that's something. I try to teach my kids that to trust in that no matter. The clarity like jordan. Peterson would say suffering and i love. I do appreciate that realism. But that even even in the midst of any any degree of suffering losing the business that my family is built for the last nine years we have we still i could lose everything and still be impoverished on the street and have every reason to be joyful because my home is in heaven as just a matter of time and and i could find reasons to be good today. Irene's either do pray with my daughter every night or read. A proverb explained to her last night. We read all the days of the oppressed or wretched cheerful heart as a continual feast of your hearts cheerful. Like your food though message probably says a cheerful heart is like giant piece of pizza like a supreme pizza. from domino's. the message has great funny translations that i remember like where it says These hard times or small potatoes compared to the good times that are come. You would israelites. Of said would've data stream. This is how you talk in the streets of his small potato. There's some there's some provinces truckloads god's bringing in truckloads of lessons. I don't think what does interact with. He likes pie in the sky by and by a lot. That a lot in the message. That's just this guy. By and by that i lock the f. Don't worry about it. I don't know about my guess. What by and by means by and by uber dynamic translation philosophy by. That's sounds nice and trained by gay. Bya now now. Let's try not to till one conservative joke saving meal a feast of jokes. What are these. thanksgiving facts. That you want facts. Maybe we'll save chesterton for subscriber portion. Okay going to be a little shorter today just because we all need to get to our families and started weaken pie. But by you're opening your next coke. And i don't wanna get troublesome. Have we been sanitize in the bathroom every fifteen minutes because i have held every addresses down the book. Your thanksgiving make sure that allows your recording. I'm gonna hit mute last quarter and should be good sex on the bible calls that there is that there are no thanksgiving facts of the bible. The first thanksgiving was actually three days. So what are we waiting for the three days. It's not just a one day thing should be three days like with the natives and you know okay. I didn't know that ati natives on how well this one calling us. Native americans may not have had turkey at their feast. But they did. it was in sixteen twenty one. They don't know if there's even on the menu but they did. Have we know they had venison duck goose oysters lobster and fish everything better than turkey instead of all that. Yeah that's in turkey. Become the thing that i now know. Maybe it's not. I don't know. I feel like thanksgiving's ally now. Thomas did not like thanksgiving your fuse to declare the holiday visit invoked prayerity leaving the separators stating jefferson involved pray reflection and he also cut up the new testament jeffersonville other parts that he didn't think the lear has gone and all the letters are out the lyrical genius behind the hit song. Mary had. A little lamb is also responsible for thanksgiving becoming a national holiday. She apparently her name. Is sarah josefa. Hail josefa era. She convinced abraham lincoln after seventeen years of the toasting. Sarah thank you sarah problem. Yeah yeah anyway. Off lincoln road the pop proclamation in eighteen sixty three earning her the name. The mother of thanksgiving americans prepare forty six million turkeys for thanksgiving each year this year. Yeah eating alone. It would be as much right. Everybody has to make their own turkey. Yeah more interesting. Maybe that's just crazy. Like what is that. The population of america close to four hundred million three hundred million. Yeah so it's like a quarter of no forty six million turkeys forty six turkey for every four people that sounds about right one for every ten forty six hundred forty six million. There's like three hundred four million right. Yeah i'm not good at math. I don't know i'm gonna try what's a country. That's forty million people an eating that that country in turkey's california four million okay. Yeah it's like eating california in california. Where every person and governor turkey and they they get eaten every year turkey's remarks you think. Funny msa the turkeys pardoned by the president going to live fulfilling lives various president to pardon a turkey who herbert hoover coolidge. Herbert herbert is there. Another doesn't i'm sure there is another hubbard vin who who i feel like i'm readiness. That's why i h. W oh yes that. Recent lifetime yeah. He pardoned restrict one thousand nine hundred nine after noticed. That fifty. Pound bird official thanksgiving proclamation. Look a little nervous. Every president has upheld the tradition ever. Since but what happens to that lucky bird that lives so to squawk another day in two thousand and five and two thousand nine turkey went to disneyland and walt disney world parks to serve as grand marshal in the annual thanksgiving parades. I don't think they really would appreciate like the teacups and turkey. Legs marshall like a metal. The whole time turkeys are kind of actually named after the country. Turkey know that the turkey does not really hail from the country. During the reign of the ottoman empire bird called the guinea fowl which bears a striking resemblance to the american turkey was imported to europe from its native north africa because the birds came from turkish lands europeans called them the turkey cock and the turkey ham turkey cock to a rather than turkey. When settlers in the americas began sending similar looking birds back to europe name really stuck took off the last word reserve that for probably a good choice ca black friday. The busiest day of the year for plumbers. I read that on one to call it brown friday. I'm sure it's true. thanks. I on thanksgiving the house. He gets stressing out the plumbing system gets overtaxed reports that kitchen drains garbage disposals and toilets require more attention. The day after thanksgiving day. Before you have to join the legions playing a hefty holiday. Bill paying you may want to remind your kitchen. Cleanup crew to scrape the plate before washing Garbage disposal sticking entire turkey bones and thirty likes down. Should fine the wishbone. How how do you think the wishbone traditions. This is my last fact. Nineteen forty-six guest sixteen seventeen actually one way back before any of that breaking wishbones grant. Secret wishes isn't an american original. The tradition was inherited from the british. Who got it from. The romans adopted it from the true skains. That is i. They believe the birds had oracle powers on birds died. They would keep the wishbone and stroke as they made wishes which isn't too far off from what we do today. What stroke pretty. Far out of foul no uncertain. Oh no no. They have to redeem that. He's giving this shocking not good. Not we always do the wishbone. We're so excited about it. And i tried to. My kids are like one slimy. He let it dry in the new the next day. Oh 'cause yeah before. It's just like the gummy and get. No wishes doesn't work there. You have those are very interesting where vaccinating thank you. Thank you for the yes. I heard a story about the first thanksgiving charlie. Brennan thanksgiving Will that button. Also when the when the settlers came to america they had like a socialist system set up where they were having like a communal stock of all of their supplies and all their food and the governor would kind of have that. We're gaffer end. they they all. They all had to work hard but they didn't get to keep what they made in. So basically the whole. I thanks giving was starving to death in the indians came like help them. And i think like part of the letters of the governor. He was like let everyone work hard. And keep what they make. You know next thanksgiving was a little better. I think tearful trying the first one this year that was a lot of the list. I looked at for fun. Facts all of them had a thanksgiving isn't a completely happy holiday inn and this whole thing about the genocide of the native american and they're always like the europeans came in wipe the indians out with by bringing plague. Which i guess you have to believe. They've passed out blankets with or you're saying that brought it on purpose the Apparently all that comes from like one letter where general says man you can just put them smallpox things blankets in driving me crazy but it was taken to mean that that is an actual military tactic instead. Anybody ever did like when you tell joe on twitter and they like. I sure wish. I could hang that guy necktie. This plotted murder. Cancel a lot about stuff happened. But here's a lot of evidence genocide. As far as i know so one of the things. I love about listening to the two of you. The podcast is that. I find it very comforting. Because he's just get this image of two old guys sitting on a parked laughing as the shoe very relax. There's something that the speaking to that. What what gives you the ability to not let like news of the day down here. Nothing to do. I was talking before this. The thing i can do. That's one thing i can do. I can make a joke about. The humor definitely helps you cope. You know you can't take it too seriously. The jokes aren't funny. I was talking. Before that. I feel i feel like i. I want to embody tom. Bomba dill tom. O'neil coverings had his little you wanna ruin lord of the rings wonderful dare you serve. He was on the movie people complain that he's got his little property and he's just lives happy little life and they talked to him about sorrow destroy the world and it reminds me of the people that are like trump is not destroy democracy. And he's like like my little land here and he's just like good luck you know and and the reason is because he's basically been around since the creation of middle earth and so he just goes. I've seen tyrants come and go and sarah will fade away. So i think when we have the logical triumph like we know we're going to win in the end. You know things could go down for the next five hundred years and we still win. So i i. I can have comfort and i joke about. I think i think he does give christians tiresome more hoping piece. I think i've come to realize the best thing you can do most situations as whatever you do well and not just like so you think like the generic reaction to the situation like this guy is outraging us. We should write in the streets. We all have an individual reaction to things that god made us. Each unique in mind is usually to make a joke or creative or i mean. I don't feel driven to join a mob and react in that way. Sometimes you could like singing. Yes but kill your parents. I to quieter lower lower income. One of the things about is that. It's not like you said it's not joining a mob and destroying creeds. I'm trying to build something trying to make culture trying you're making stuff you're right. I just poured my belly cobb. Yeah go through coffee. Zoli disney cartoons and getting drunk in the cartoon iced nokia dumbo number of the movie. Like end of the movie was just getting drunk. Yeah so damned remember. No sorry do you move. Let's move to the subscriber portion where we're gonna read chesterton essay together. Yeah to any any parting. Thoughts for friends Fear god honour the respect everyone around love them or other ear god. On hundred king respect women excluded. I ever everyone everyone. Brethren generic term history brennan insisted in the cistern sounds like a on listeners. We're thankful for you. Yes we are enjoyed time with your family is give. Thanks to happy. Thanksgiving happy thanksgiving people list. The rest of this podcast is in our super exclusive premium subscriber lounge. If you're not a babylon be subscriber. Goto babylon dot com slash plans for full length. Ad free podcasts. Access to our headline for twenty percent off the items in the babylon be store. A gift and more. Please drop us a review on i tunes and share the podcast with a friend feedback and love male goto podcast at babylon v dot com. Follow ethan at ex-cop and kyle at the underscore kyle score man on twitter. Kyle and ethan would like to thank seth dylan for paying the bills. Adam ford for creating their job the other writers tirelessly pitching headlines the subscribers and you the listener until next time this is dave dee andrea the voice of the babylon reminding you to go forth and hunch same repeatedly arrives.
Savor Classics: Pumpkin
"Today's episode is brought to you by Panera bread looking for something fresh and filling Pinera's new warm and grain bowls are full of flavorful ingredients like Hardy Qinghua Spicy Salsa a day and creamy tomato full of good so you'll be full of good to try new how or Mediterranean warm grain bowl now available for delivery Panera food as it should we hit peak pumpkin searches by the way twenty thirteen if he'd ever concerts searches for Pumpkin spice meanwhile have been trending upward since Google started recording data in two thousand four with really huge yearly jumps again in October starting starting twenty twelve mostly also kinda spooky creepy all that realm so we would love that absolutely so we're going to let former Every October the searches spike like one thousand nine hundred percent that is quite a percent versus the rest of the year. Yeah it's it's nuts no one outside of the United States and Canada gives a single fig about pumpkin spice anything according to Google so really yeah it's just too low steady jacket before I left a jack a jacket sweater weather hot so yeah because we andy and Lauren take it away interesting when you think about it because it's a food and decoration and it feels kind of new to me I mean does it feel to apart from our reaching saturation point but fall it's been so warm today that we are recording this is literally the first day the temperature has been anywhere near fall like starting to me I had to go back inside I just I feel like in the United States we haven't been eating it that long and we still kind of don't go back and forth about it yeah there we have periods so much to be said they're all my heck there is yes and also I guess it's just been kind of like in my head since we did our turn episode ended that rerun again and then send in your office that would be so good yes I love anything that's Oh you know this this is a older episodes from way back in off foodstuff days and and be Yeah Pumpkins good times yes I said well I don't know yeah it's it's it's got such a long history it's one of the first cultivated foods never go yeah don't roll your eyes and click away just yet don't I know it's Pumpkin everything and it's kind of an overdone trend at this point really but oh yeah it's Pumpkin is really eating it and then they just tell decoration it's really okay so I checked Google trends and the search craft for Pumpkin is just hilariously p one of the stingy Jack telling so you get to listen to that again if you'd want to skip past it I do what I want I can't tell you what to do I think you should definitely radio and Stephania I'm Andrew and I'm Laurin Vogel Bomb and today we have you a classic fall themed episode about Pumpkin Specific Image like a large squash that has this hard smooth ribbed orange colored shell that is harvested in the fall but the term can actually refer Hello and welcome to Food Steph I'm angry and I'm Laurin vocal bomb today it's the Pumpkin episode category technically Zucchini a core jet for many of our European listeners is the same species as Pumpkin really same species the genus Kuker Beata probably and most are in the species Cooker Beata pepo which actually just this tremendously huge the great loves of my Life Yeah Oh God yeah oh my haven't carved my pumpkin yet have you know I haven't I haven't done my whole life ver- trend I like the measurement of fig as well we should adopt that how many figs do I give three figs three fish the skins which are natural preservers if you keep them in a cool dark place they'll hold up for at least two months without any kind of intervention and the seeds are a little bit harder to the Pumpkin socially about it let's let's do that thing if you're if you're from the United States anyway that the word pumpkin probably votes a really a to this really ridiculous number of different species and cultivars within that species cultivars being strains that have been bred by humans for specific properties there much grows and Antarctica when you think about it and they're grown for multiple uses animal-feed decoration and human feed option yeah They grow during a single season a seeds planted in late spring mature to full fruit by all this reminds me I have a friend who angry based on when they are harvested the the summer types like Zucchini have soft skins and soft seeds and are harvested in the summer the winter types tend to have these hard kind of Gordon Australia just in chunks like package chunks and you can find small whole pumpkins and Japanese savory dishes like Tempera roasted you'd generally be cooked in some way before you consume them yeah but what is it what is it well a Pumpkin is a fruit botanically oth fit with cargo room inside of one of these pumpkins worth looking into talk about Cinderella right yeah pumpkins attitude thickness the one day they served pumpkins served it in the Pumpkin and I love pumpkin and soup and I one thousand one hundred and nine hundred kilograms Aka just a little bit less than a Honda Civic Oh so you and I both have Honda civics and and hopefully distribute lots of seeds the these flowers and their resulting fruit growing vines and fruit gets really big if you give them enough resources to do it you don't look anything like no cultivars wow squash in general are are categorized as summer or winter varieties is trying to imagine replacing my Honda civic with the weight being similar that is enormous we could certainly be days the pumpkin industry is having a bit of a heyday in the US pumpkin production went from around seventy five million so the biggest on record is from a Belgian grower in two thousand sixteen his pumpkin weighed two thousand six Hundred Twenty Four Pounds Aka we threw her jack lantern once and it still have seeds in it and she ended up growing like several scene Pumpkin in grocery stores and in both sweet and savory dishes when traveling especially in Asia and Australia I remember the first time I saw it in a store and steamed and eaten Pumpkin and squash blossoms are very popular in Mexico and the southwestern us you find it and most any other vegetable and Australia New Zealand as sweet in India and the Middle East and pastas in Italy in places like China and Kenya they'll use processed canned and shipped to grocery stores as pie filling pie filling or the like so that sounds kind of horrifying are grown all over the world by the way the only continent they can't grow on is Antarctica let me know suppose that indoors greenhouse you could probably make it happen I guess not too it led the way in US pumpkin production with three hundred eighteen million pounds can produced also the seeds pumpkin seeds are eaten as pumpkins how it was kind of bizarre because I feel like I've thrown pumpkin seeds out and nothing's happened but maybe she had the right just had the right conditions right velocity of seeking a berry actually it's like tomatoes they're they're the ovary of Pumpkin flower that has grown large enough to contain protect the growth of the US every which way from super sweet candies and Tamales. I've even heard there's a tour through Mexico where you just go and try all the different types of Pumpkin all the different clubs implement of dubious health property and in beauty products the global pumpkin seed industry reportedly growing fast for all y'all investors out there yes yes that sounds delicious and there's this pumpkin soup I still or not trying I was hiking in the Andes Peru but I che's Yeah Yeah if you look on the back it says but a lot of a lot of instances United States canned Pumpkin is through and it just worked out I guess and uh like we kind of hit on it it's kind of a new trend in the US but I and we're back thank you sponsor so the oldest evidence archaeologists have dollar industry in two thousand one to a one hundred forty three million dollar one in two thousand fourteen ooh quite the jump yeah and most of the Pumpkins were buying in I've never made it sweet recipe work anyway anyway yes also the canned pumpkin is probably mostly not pumpkin others so upset there was no way no way I was like seeing spots out of my chair now half the use of the word flesh generally yeah yeah most Tompkins candor otherwise in the US also come from Illinois Twenty Fifteen Illinois snacks roasted usually either by themselves or as ingredients and stuff like like granola there are also processed into seed oil which can be used in cooking as a health history of Pumpkins as decoration can't not talk about it I mean absolutely but first we're going to take a quick break for word from our sponsor Chhaya new Baja our Mediterranean warm Greenville warm grain bowls full of good now available for delivery Panera food as it should be some other kind of winter squash yeah there's usually a little bit of Pumpkin there but mostly not grocery stores are lying to us again surprise surprise so that's briefly what Pumpkin is but let's talk about the history Pumpkin as a food because this is food show where we're also gonNA talk a little bit about the next time next time hiking in the eighties I will not get out to sickness certainly not on Pumpkin Soup Day yes of all the sound of Pumpkins comes from the Oaxaca highlands of Mexico dating back seven thousand five hundred years pretty long time in this episode is brought to you by Panera bread ask yourself when was the last time you had a meal that was fresh and filling Pinera's new I know there's so many listening and like I got hit on this pumpkin business right now pepitas by the way are a type of Pumpkin seed that comes from a particular varietal of Pumpkin that produces seeds that do not have holes so so there's little green kind of thing that's that's a whole pumpkin seed the white variety arrived in the Yucatan in the fifteen hundreds of the native people served them a dish of corn tortillas and punchy sauce called food for the Lord's Gordon is containers love it with the advent of maize to the region farmers discovered the benefits of the three sisters formation trying to have heard of the remember the tomato but the Pumpkin was similar enough to squashes that already existed in the old world but kind of had a better flavor so so it caught on pretty much store are the big Halloween pumpkins that we think of yes generally the big orange ones yeah and then the second type you're most likely to Encounter where they discovered the domesticated pumpkin seats and these early Pumpkins were most likely smaller and bitter use the dried out empty pumpkins to drink out of ours bowls or other storage containers which I never considered but yeah Oh of course totally campaigner shape huge huge history warm grain bowls are full of flavorful ingredients Harney Chemo Spicy Salsa Verde and creamy avocado full of flavors textures and colors full of good so you'll be full of good too flower very versatile pumpkin seeds were a favorite of the Aztecs and the Mayans would cook the fruit into sauces toast and grind the seeds and you Bentley Yeah they didn't have to wait around popular and this is around about the time the word pumpkin first appeared originates from the Greek word meaning lost aided by the country people who planned to them upon their Dung Hills I'm taking this is a personal affront I very offended and I can't understand once the pilgrims started settling North America they wholeheartedly embraced the Pumkin which the native Americans introduced them to impart dude things grow up and along the corn stocks using them like a natural trellis and the bean routes they release nitrogen into the soil which is beneficial for the corn the accent that the English certainly didn't use but it didn't appear in written records until sixteen forty seven and that term comes from the French good Ashley store is a processing pumpkin processing yes which I believe is so named because a majority of them end up in processing plants where they're fleshes and finding your carving Pumpkins have the hall on him that's all part yeah there especially popular in Mexico where where cooker Beata pepo originated as both a snack and arrest large Mellon accents in fifteen forty seven. The English started using pumping y'all or peel I'm saying that the Pope John is yes the the French word for Pumpkin and it was around that time that a bunch of European recipes for Pumpkin custard began to appear within the lower classes decent cooking apples take years and years as we have discussed before yes we have early New England colonist also used the Pumpkin for a haircut template yeah but I I mean I don't blame the pain Mellon I do I wouldn't Wanna get eaten necessarily okay well that's fair yeah anyway Pumpkins and or squash vines provided shelter for the roots and kept the moisture in the soil oh sounds like a pretty sweet set up to me absolutely when the spirit anyway through the seventeen hundreds upper-class Europeans referred to Pumpkins as ordinary mean unsubstantial and frequently cultivate sleep if you just boil them they they tasted quite pleasant yeah they'd roast them they'd roast chunks of Pumpkin over fires bake them dry them grind them up and use them as adding butter and spices budget simple the pilgrims were also noted make pumpkin beer by fermenting it along with maples the pound strips of Pumpkin flats and we've them into Matt so not just for food but they would also eat the dry jobs for consumption pumpkin so interesting yes but they were really durable and they could survive the winter because of this they were probably some of the first crops consumed in North America and the native Americans the three poem entitled New England's annoyances for pottage and puddings and custard pies pumpkins and parsnips are common supplies resistors here are squash maize and beans and like any good sisters they help each other grow oh how sweet they're good sisters the beam ingredient Either whole or ground up into a nice little paste pumpkin seeds to sweet sp sp very good they don't know maybe something that I couldn't eat if it's difficult to peel sometimes I get frustrated but I don't that pain that was rough asli if barley wanting to make into malt we must be contented and think it no fault for we can make liquor to sweeten our lips of Pumpkins and parsnips and Walnut Whoa I wanNA know so much about this they did it to make sure they achieved a clean uniform cut which earned which earned them the name that it named Pumpkin heads published Pumpkin recipes appeared in John Joscelyn's New England rarities discovered the recipe called cooking down right Pumpkin for a day and the Pumpkin yes right Pumpkin yes what they would do is cut off the top remove seeds and then they'd filled inside eggs cream honey and other spices the to hardiness they used it in deserts and side dishes and soups the Pumpkin was the star of the first Thanksgiving as evidence by sixteen hundred it's passage by Edward Johnson about a sign of progress New England being that people were eating quote apples pears and quince tarts sure so and the craft beer movement more about that a little bit yes speaking of Pumpkin Pie what about Pumpkin Pie Oh yeah there were recipes more later yeah fun thing to look out for Pumpkin did fall out of prevalence in a beer here in the Americas until the nineteen eighties kind of early version of the Pumpkin pie kind of yeah and they wouldn't had apple pie that early probably a you know because quash congressional season but as we have pumpkins at morning and Pumpkins at noon if it were not for Pumpkins we should be undone we're modernized and later prince by replacing squash with pumpkin because as Lauren said earlier when Pumpkin came around it was kind of just as tastier replacement for squash due to its availability whereas Multan hops a little bit more rare there's recipes for mashing out pumpkin juice that you do with apples then hopping and fermenting that g you know I just don't know how but anyway I will look into that after this in the sixteen seventy one of the first reach chips liquor to threaten our lips and no I have to say I like this poem and also Pumpkin seems to show up and a lot of poems because we were talking about Sugar Hobson persimmons and through the seventeen and eighteen hundreds pumpkin was a relatively common ingredient in beers in the pre United States I suppose that sounds pretty good the speed of light because they took the seeds of back to Spain where it spread and diversified and lots of new foods took a while to catch on instead of their former Pumpkin pies so ak they were eating the more civilized European non-native not that mean unsee stantione Pumpkin Geez tough crowd however the eighteen hundreds of just about the time that the American colonists started the trend of serving a sweetened pumpkin dish at holiday gathering's dollar like Thanksgiving in seventeen ninety six Amelia Simmons's cookbook American cooking in Connecticut and eighteen hundreds they postponed Thanksgiving a week to wait out a molasses shortage that impacted Pumpkin Pie they'd bury the whole thing in the hot ashes of fire wait till it was done don't know how they knew but all right and they scoop out the inside including the pumpkin flesh and serve it as sort of a customer there's actually a later verse of that Pumpkin loading poem or Pumpkin annoyance poem like like why are there all of these pumpkins everywhere that feeds the with one editorial out of Virginia claiming quote this is an annual custom of that people heretofore celebrated with devout obligations to themselves of Yeah in sixteenth and seventeenth century England some of the more well off were familiar with the type of Pumpkin Pie that sometimes involves stuffing apples into the shell of upon didn't Pie and Roast Turkey Oh wow disgusting I know how dare they however with the help of people keep insulting foods I just sorta food been like that mean unsubstantial gotten Kinda mad at anyway back to the Pumpkin Pie and even popped up during the civil war this desert was far more near and dear to the hearts of new Englanders and right which I'm pretty sure we mentioned before had a recipe for Pumpkin puddings that were baked crust similar to what we have today and there's a fun story about a small town race dude and sweetened pumpkin mixture wrapped in pastry all the way back to medieval times A lot of the recipes you find in medieval European cookbooks the most distinguished niche after Abraham Lincoln designated Thanksgiving a national holiday in eighteen sixty three heal the country after the civil war angry southerners saw as a way for northerners to impose their traditions on them I know recipes and write ups printed in women's magazines Pumpkin pie spread throughout the land McCain a traditional holiday dessert its status further as you would with a beer and four beers that start with Multan hops and dried apple and Pumpkin plus other stuff like Ryan Burcin and other flavorings be looking to favor production of delirious she included a brief mention of Pumpkin Pie in her eighteen twenty seven anti slavery novel Northwood quotes yet the Pumpkin pie occupied in New England ended with the line her for the Pumpkin Pie On top of that Sarah Josefa Hale who has mentioned before is living without my pumpkin pie hats blasphemy. I feel the same way I didn't until recently I actually I don't get it but I've only kind of been newly introduced to it it's so important to the meal they were like hold up the we're going to have to put this off for a week everybody I hope for all the same page here because I'm not doing thanks since many of the most outspoken abolitionist were from New England Pumpkin Pie would feature and some of the writings Lydia Marie child eighteen forty two poem about Thanksgiving you to this lady's her campaign in he did that he gave into this letter writing campaign in part as an attempt to the mother of Thanksgiving and is one of my favorite most bizarre things I ever got to work on stuff mom never told you our history segment so go check that out on Youtube if you if you're interested in mm kindle so using the Pumpkin as the coffin in this went out of fashion and in the eighteenth century and of note is the sixteen fifty the scheme yeah love it yeah but they weren't using it in a way most of us are familiar with defied with the nineteen twenty nine introduction of Libya's canned pumpkin which made pumpkin pie baking all easier and by the way liberties currently dominates the canned pumpkin market North America at over ninety percent wow that's pumpkin monopoly quite a corner on the market there you'll be full of good to try new or Mediterranean warm grain bowl now available for delivery panera food as it should be back so let's let's set the mood here let's set the scene Jack was a drunk and the ultimate manipulator and inside these root vegetables but it sounds kind of difficult yeah you know what might be easier literally anything Yeah okay for someone who loves Halloween I actually didn't know the myth the story behind the Jecklin. Yeah so this is Super Fun doc was applied as a generic term for any male human person hence jack-of-all-trades every man Jack Jack The ripper and etc that Jack wanted as his last meal and then Jack Quickly placed a bunch of crucifixes to keep Satan up up stuck in the tree all like a kitten Irish who originally carved turnips and potatoes who the English might have used beads man then they would put hot coals easily sourced and more easily carbon pumpkins and they made the switch I would imagine it didn't take much The first written instance of Jacqueline turn in the context of a carved fruits or vegetables by the way was in eighteen thirty seven and the Pumpkin association I was recorded in eighteen sixty so so jacker lantern was just Jack of the lantern like you know like the dude with the lantern so yeah fun maiming note over coin to pay for set drink but instead Jack Pocketed Satan in his mouth coin form next to his handy crucified money that's where the Cindy bit comes in I'm guessing so he convinced the seemingly Gullible Satan to turn into a sale in his pocket so Satan couldn't transform back Jack would only set him free after he convinced Satan to leave him and his soul alone for one or two when Satan yes that Satan got wind of this fellow he was a bit jealous he wanted to prove he was superior and evilness really fundraiser. Yeah it's a it's a terrific old folk story and it comes to us from the Seventeenth Century Irish Tale of Stingy Jack Yes stingy Jack Kissel Jack Convinced Satan to allow him one last drink but when the bill comes due when you know it but Jack doesn't have any in came at the end of the agreed upon term Jack Tricks Satan again again by getting him to climb a tree for a piece of fruit this time Jack Bargain with Satan to never take his soul to hades and what I imagine as a hand thrown up tight move Satan agreed holiday pumpkins are associated with Halloween it's my favorite holiday need to the earliest jack-o-lanterns that come to US courtesy of the Scottish I know kind of adorable in I really want more details on that conversation how did he convince him to climb a tree for this piece of fruit either Satan still mad about how foolish all the trickery had made him look sentenced Jack to wander a never ending night with only a lit- coal as his life autry to this Jack So one night when Jack was drunkenly stumbling around as he was wont to do he ran into Satan looking to collect lasts when Jack finally drank himself to death years later he was refused entrance into heaven for his deviousness and is the deal he struck with Satan he couldn't go to Haiti's intern later shortened to check lantern and the tradition of carving root vegetables and later the Pumpkin with scary faces was meant to frighten stingy Jack please the coal a hollowed out turnip and went about his miserable way for all eternity the Irish gave him the name Jack of the it's not literally anything but probably a pumpkin probably a big fat round Pumpkin yeah when European immigrants to the colonies they saw the cheaper more independent in which store you look at years how he had this negotiation with the coin that's beyond me anyway when Satan disc's an etymological note why Jack in Jack Lantern we'll since the thirteen hundred or so England and later in the United States the name John Back in other spirits like him away who hope that gets you all ready for Tober yeah for the fall growing competition market may have been kick started by the world's fair in Paris in one thousand nine hundred and these showing there of a four hundred pound pumpkin specimen I love that story so much and I can't believe I never heard it wonderful yeah a also also vaguely related to Halloween if you ever have the chance to check out sugar syrup and guava and cinnamon and stewards of the Pumpkin fibers soak up all of that flavor ooh that sounds good yeah I always wanted to check that out Linkin in starring role during the Great Depression e sears canning was worst shutter its doors but the festival still continues to this day under the name the Pumpkins Adeel Dillard's Martha's festival look for a sweet treat called Cabeza and Tattoo it's a softer semi candy Pumpkin preparation that involves a unrefined of a large pumpkin cannery e sears canning and Circle Ville Ohio each role farmers whose wagons overflow with with Pumpkins they would okay now I'm Kinda like spooked out here's something to kind of bring bring back bring back the Global Pumpkin and a pumpkin patch I love these like little small vessels and there are as I'm sure you could get many many many many many and we're back thank you sponsor okay so it's time to talk about Out after another quick break for word from our sponsor this episode is brought to you by city can festivals Pumpkin chunking the art and Pumpkin Festival in California and there are some amazing just truly stunning jacqueline displays at a lot of these surge in trick or treating the came about during the post World War Two era which was that golden age when the streets were paved with candy and young baby boomers not it's hard not to think about going on a vacation Oh yes getting to actually read books eat new food see new places it all sounds amazing right yes the first three months of having the card head to city dot com slash save our podcast to apply for the American Airlines Advantage Mile Up Card today the largest pumpkin festival of its time there's largest pumpkin contest largest PUMPKIN PIE contest I want to be involved in it so badly restores buying your morning coffee or sandwich at lunch that gets you even closer to with one mile per dollar spent on all other purchases you make if you're ready for your next trip book your flight on a commend looking them up I want to see one in real life so badly oh I've a friend she sent me a video she was at last year I think she was in Salem a dot Com and get two times miles when you use your advantage mile up card plus you can earn ten thousand advantage bonus miles fifty dollars statement credit after spending five hundred dollars yeah we thought so too well with the American Airlines advantage mile up card from city you can turn your everyday into your next vaca- it's the card that transforms the person Pumpkin Spice Spice Pumpkin spice yes at whole pumpkin pie flavor combination of of sweet slash make the check to the Kennedy to get their products canned in response in nineteen oh three the mayor announced circle bill would hold an annual autumn produce festival with as you make on a daily basis into advantage miles that you can use for travel groceries with the advantage mile up card. Your errands could help you earn miles toward your next trip with two times advantage miles at grid offi end is more easily reproducible than high quality coffee which extensively starbucks wants to be known for primarily you would think extensively meanwhile we are still a food show in the United States anyway fell out of fashion for a bit between World War One and World War Two but picked up again with the ice flavored products jumped fourteen percent in two thousand thirteen to almost three hundred fifty million dollars in the United States most of that was Pumpkin Pie. It's about one hundred and eighty one kilograms wow well from their OV- let's jump skip to nineteen zero three and the home yes once it caught on they were like oh well that's fine yeah okay we'll just keep going with this one sales of Pumpkin spice filling but show Bonnie announce that it's limited release of Pumpkin Spice Yogurt in two thousand fourteen was the most successful in its history my goodness and here's the number for you ooh that's a lot yeah many of them were probably like one time offerings but nonetheless like Pumpkin and Pumpkin spice in general these squash plus nutmeg plus cinnamon yeah and I bet a lot of you can guess what started this trend the two thousand three release of these starbucks Pumpkin Spice Latte today those PSL's yes trending on twitter probably as we speak one hundred thirty percent that's the increase of Pumpkin as an ingredient in beverages since two thousand and six and Pumpkin us on benches alone dot com a great website currently lists one thousand three hundred ninety nine examples of Pumpkin Ale having been professionally produced and sold worldwide literally paved that would be Chris There was another bit of a dip in Pumpkin eating around here from the nineteen seventies through the nineties as the squash was bred more for sure in the midst of all of this Pumpkin beers have enjoyed some serious seasonal resurgence starting in two thousand and four Seattle Brewery Elision more these days yeah that's extra not bad for a product that starbucks wasn't even sure about to begin with given the the flavour overpowers closer to like Yankee candle than beer my current favourite pumpkin beard disc comes from the two thousand fourteen paste magazine review of southern tier warlock the carve ability then for taste and texture but another trend would bring it back from the ashes yet again I wonder what it could be oh we'll find imperial pumpkin stout which it said tastes like quote decades old easy Bake Oven Brownie Mix rehydrated with black liquorice liqueur harsh for this beverages and I really do think starbucks is like it was the pinnacle all met at this point now in has hosted a great pumpkin beer festival every September or October which this year will feature over eighty individual pumpkin brews beer advocate Pumpkin Spice marshmallows peeps Pumpkin Spice Yogurt Pumpkins by Sandwich Bread pumpkin spice popcorn pumpkin spice chips pumpkin spice almonds pumpkin spice morsels pumpkin spice pringles that's lovely I thank you and here is a quick list of some of the weird pumpkin items you might encounter in the fall you've got kind of I'm not a fan of Pumpkin Beer I have some that I like I yeah I like very dry flavored alcohol so they knew to an spears are a divisive yes yes many are just super sweet and or super spiced and can range in flavor I love Pumpkin and it is difficult to get a pumpkin beer right but I have had like a handful that I like and I do this thing every Labor Day weekend a majority of Pumpkin spice product sales do you take place in the fall seventy percent falling between September and November and a survey can acted in two thousand fourteen found that thirty four percent of the little over one thousand of adult participants named Pumpkin spice as the number one flavor they associated with fall that makes sense between launch and twenty thirteen starbucks sold two hundred million pumpkin spice Latte and that that was as of two thousand thirteen I'm sure it's a lot ooh man I was so jealous if you guys have any good photographs of that kind of thing some cinnamon in yes please yeah Pumpkins is a food pumpkin beer sealed conditioned and then tapped at the fest for all to enjoy okay now I want to check this out there so many things I wanna see. I'm sure you guys have seen these products there's an astonishing amount oh yeah and we didn't I mean if we go into like lotions and we're still living with the pumpkins on news has risen by ten times since two thousand six yeah as a whole nother FA- airfresheners yeah also I stumbled across tutorial on how to turn a Pumpkin into beer words if you have either a favourite brand or a favorite diss right in and let us know I love that you have a favorite this I've read a lot of them have you in where I get summer beer and usually pumpkin beer beer I say goodbye summer and hello to fall even though fall doesn't technically start thin that's just my tradition all trips Seattle yes also apparently Pumpkin Pie Kit Kat bars are coming to the United States this fall I'm GonNa try one of those I've had the Pumpkin pie creep pumpkin beer festival features giant pumpkin every year from their website eight several hundred pound pumpkin that a scoop scorched filled with ellison and As we said earlier you can also eat pumpkin blossoms yeah likes zucchini blossoms. They're pretty excellent breaded and fried not so healthy but that's fine States have a nicer flavor slash texture due to their fiber content pumpkin is also really great for controlling both constipation and diarrhea hey fiber gets the bells Actually pretty good for you I mean you know before you've added crap tons of sugar and creamer butter whatever into them AH PUMPKINS are high
SMNTY Classics: The Anthropology of Pie
"So I can't believe that. I'm about to say this but season one is over. Yeah. That's right season. One of committed finished, so many incredible episodes, so many great stories we fell in love. We had our hearts broken. I'm still in awe of all of the work that we did this season. And if you have it, listen, all the episodes. They're not going anywhere. No now, they're not you could go back and binge the entire season right now if you wanted to and why not grab some wind. Grab a cupcake been JAL of season one or maybe you already did binge season. One by not go back and listen near favorites. Send them to a friend, send them to your mom. Mom's actually loved the show. I get so many comments from my mom's friends. It's amazing now we're not going to far away. In fact, all I'm doing over the holidays is working on season to have committed. We'll be back in early twenty nineteen you won't have to miss us for too long because we're gearing up for an amazing season two. Thanks for listening. Thanks for being a part of the committed family. I can't wait to bring you the next season. So listen subscribe and review committed on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, this is Andy. And you're listening to stuff. Mom, never told you. One thing. Some of you may not know is that I am the co host of another house to I show called saver all about food and drink, and as you might imagine from that I spent an embarrassing amount of time thinking about food, particularly desserts, which is funny because as a kid I was not a dessert fan. I didn't even want desert at my birthday parties. I sold all of my Halloween candy for money, and I made a lot of money. I marked up that candy, but something happened around college. And I developed a real sweet tooth for baked goods. I have a March madness type bracket for my favorite, desserts and pie is solidly on top. Depending on the type, of course. But generally, it's my go-to about a month ago at one of my friend's weddings instead of a wedding cake. They had five types of pie. And it was just about the best thing I've ever seen it a wedding every year. I try to make a new by for thanksgiving one. I've never made before. And I'm still mulling over. Her what it'll be this year. But in the meantime, I hope you enjoy this classic episode about all things pie. Welcome to stuff. Mom, never told you from how stuff works dot com. Hello. And welcome to the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline. And since the holidays have arrived, we decided to talk about pie for an entire podcast. That's right. It's history. It's very multifaceted beautiful tasty bubbly history. Yes. And there's lots of gender involved with pie making that will get into later, but first off Carolina. I want to ask you what you favorite pie is. Or do you have a favorite pie? Are you more of a cake person? Well, I gotta say I was not a pie fan when I was growing up. We didn't really do pies in the urban household. We were cake people. So con- pie was his adventures as we would get. Honestly, I I got to say, I just prefer cake. Really? Yeah. So you don't have a favorite pie now unless chocolate is involved, really the nuts. My only stipulation. Oh, yeah. Chocolate can. Absolutely be involved in a pie. Let me tell you. In fact, Caroline baking fact, about your co host Kristin I will not refer to myself in the third person anymore. Is that my family like known recipe that I and I alone make is a French silk pie. Ooh. Chocolate pie. And I make my own whipped cream. Topping which is not a part of the recipe. I just put it on top. Because what makes it by better than whip cream? Absolutely nothing. So even though my family isn't a super heavy in deserts, my mom, always enjoyed baking. And so I kind of inherited that from her and I love a good pie. I love a good pie. Any? No, I'm going to say, I prefer pi to cake because it's not as heavy as cake cake gets agreement. Yeah. Wow. See I feel like pie with its pastry crust and. It's lattice work. And it's we jewiness like pies kind of heavy we can we're going to have to agree to disagree as well. You know, it's not heavy actually. So I take back. Some of what I said, my mom does quote unquote, make a pie sometimes limit icebox pie. But nothing about it is homemade, so it's the store-bought crust, and it is like the jello pudding. Lemon pudding stuff with cool whip on top and my dad's it, and he's the only one who eats. It actually sounds pretty good to me. But I guess that's only confirmation that. I'm I'm a pie person. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a pilot. He, but one thing though, that is indisputable is that pie at least beats cake in terms of historical longevity. Yeah. Highs have been around for so long, and they are very significant to pretty much every culture that has come before us. Yeah. We learned some tasty historical facts about pie from the American pie. Council because yes, there's a pie lobby that exists. And also from the New York Times both of which describe how by has been around since the ancient Egyptians like the ancient Egyptians, always factored into our stuff. Mom, never told you conversations, and it was very old culinary invention. Janet Clarkson who wrote pie a global history says that once upon a time everything baked in the oven. That was not a bread was a pie. Right. And and because the way that things had to be cooked and preserved. I mean, it's not like there were refrigerators or regular ovens hanging around so often food would be put into this sort of terrible sounding Klay like pastry and baked in an effort to preserve it. And the first pies were actually made by early Romans who then may have learned about it through the Greeks. Who we think were the originators of the pastry shell which they made by combining flour and water, which sounds like such a basic thing. Obviously, it's kind of a cornerstone fundamental of baking. But that flour and water combo was pretty revolutionary and those pies using a pastry shell very rudimentary pastry. Shell would have been a step above what they used to do. Which would have simply been wrapping reads or large leaves around meets in particular to preserve its juicy goodness. Just put that pie and some grass. Yeah. Grasp by it sounds like what I used to make in the backyard of the child anyways, speaking of the Romans, they enjoyed meat pies. During the dessert course, so pie was still a dessert for them. But it was it was meaty not not bury ish and the first published. Roman pie recipe was for goat cheese and Honey pie which to me. Actually sounds incredible. Yeah. That sounds very good in Cato, the elder, for instance, wrote about the most popular pie of his time which was called placenta then to pie read about this in day agriculture, and I don't have the recipe for placenta in front of me. But I believe it is one of those savory pies that would have come out during the soo-keun dementia or that dessert course, and I can only imagine the visual now being created in listeners minds by the two words placenta pie. Well, I know what's being created a mine. We'll so anyway, let's let's travel to England in the twelfth century up pies. That's when pies originally appeared. And of course, they were spelled very early English with a Y instead of an eye, and they were predominantly meat pies. We really don't get into sweet fruity pies until a lot later and during the middle ages. The pie crust. Just like I was saying earlier was more of a baking dish. It was kind of a container and food preserver. And it was so sturdy that cooks actually might have reused it from time to time. Yeah. There's medieval techs talking about how the poorer masses might have gotten the discards of this really thick almost an edible pie crust from wealthier people's pies. But this was because of how meat was cooked at the time. It was cooked on an open spit which rendered it drier and smaller because all those juices were being released. And so people started wrapping it up to yak to keep that almost like a pot pie to keep all that that meaty juicy goodness inside. And they called this bake meet in each e e and so for hundreds of years this primitive pie crust was really the only type of baking dish. Dish available and fun fact because it really served as a dish for your food rather than something that would enhance the flavor of say a desert the crust of pie was referred to as a coffin. Yeah. That's weird and morbid well because at that time coffins simply denoted baskets. Yeah. Sure. All right. Well, often these meaty pies were made using foul and the legs. This is just the legs were left to hang over the side of the dish and used as handles, which also indicates how tough those pie PY across were at the time. Yeah. But when we move into the fourteenth century by this point, the Oxford English dictionary notes that pie had become a popular word. So clearly, you know people were eating pie. There was a lot of pie going around. And then in a sixteenth century in England, we have the emergence of fruit pies or tarts also called pasties. And I I love this English tradition credits. The making of the first period cherry pie to Queen. Elizabeth the first issue the type she the type of made a pie. I don't see a Queen. Elizabeth the verse making a pie at all. I don't. Don't either. But I mean, I guess those are the kinds of benefits you get if you are cleaning people to say you do marvelous things such as make this cherry pie. Yeah. And I would've as Queen Elizabeth I would've accepted that complement. And I would have said indeed these days if you were Queen your your special thing would probably be in contemporary terms would be like Queen. Caroline you. Oh, yes. You invented tweaking? Of course, she took the first selfie. You're exactly right. I actually take credit for torquing anyway into working as it's right to speaking of pie events in the sixteenth century. Apple pie is mentioned in the fifteen eighty nine poem by our green. They breath is like the steam of apple pies. Hot cinnamon breath, basically. But pies also took a weird turn around this time as well. Because there was a meat pie. Craze was described in an article in the LA times talking about the history of pot pies. And it mentions that a mid sixteenth century cookbook included, a recipe for a and just vegetarians vegans listing. You might want to put down your headphones right now because it was a five bird pie in which each bird was stuffed inside the other bird, and then all of that wrapped up in in a pie. So so like the predecessor to a reduction. Yes, but pie, but high, but that could only be topped by pies that would contain live birds and animals. This was like a really fun party trick for super rich people. They would say make me. Pie with with live snakes inside of it. Yeah. Like, Indiana Jones. Yeah. It will at least it wasn't monkey brains. I guess, but I mean, they also had people popping out of pies. Yeah. I mean, the the we think of like the cheesy woman popping out of a cake today. But people did pop out of these pies, they did not go through the oven. But yeah, there are stories about like little people popping out of pies. And then serving as the court jester or a young woman who popped out of a pie, and she was bound to symbolize like the religious constraints of of the pope, you know, they they got elaborate with these pies. Yeah. That whole nursery rhyme about a singer song of sixpence that talks about how many four and twenty blackbirds baked in a pie that is in reference to these could unquote surprise pies that were full of surprises and by the prizes live animals and people. Well, so do you eat was there anything once the birds flew out of the pie? Was there? Anything to eat in it because I'd be afraid there would just be a lot of bird doodoo inside of it. Well, probably if you. Feast hosted by someone as wealthiest to have one of these surprise pies, I'm imagining and also because like medieval tapestries would show this the there would be a table before you Laden with other dishes. So maybe it's you know, that sounds delicious. Yeah. Minus the birds that are flying minus minus the bird poop from all of those. But that's a general life policy. Yes. Yes. Today's episode of stuff. Mom, never told. You is brought to you by Robin Hood, Robin Hood is an investing app that lets you buy and sell stocks ETF's options and cryptos all commission free. So I don't know much about the stock market. That's why I was so happy to use. Robinhood. It's a non intimidating way for stock market newcomers. Like me to invest for the first time with true confidence. It's simple and intuitive clear design and data easy to digest and it's an easy app to use. They're easy to understand charts and market data and it updates on your phone. So you're always kept in the know. And it's perfect for those who learn by doing like us, Robin Hood is giving listeners a free stock like apple Ford or sprint help. Build your portfolio. Sign up that mom stuff, Robin, Hood dot com. That's a mom south that Robin Hood dot com. We'll so speaking of cakes also cakes were not the original wedding food before wedding cakes bride pies were popular in England the seventeenth century. Brad pies were probably actually savory rather than sweet. And there was a Jewish tradition of putting glass ring inside them. And whatever woman got a piece with the ring was said to be the next bride. Also sounds dangerous in terms of tooth chipping. We'll judging by half fast. I tend to eat pastries and pies. I would probably suck that sucker down you swallow it. Yeah. Like, oh, okay. But we have that shift though, toward the popularity of the wedding cake as well as the tradition of the white wedding dress with the marriage of Queen Victoria to Prince Albert in eighteen forty but one of the reasons to why you would have savory bride pies as opposed to wedding cakes is because of. Of the price of sugar the price of sugar is very high. But Queen Victoria had a nine foot tall wedding cake that I believe weighed five hundred pounds. But a lot of this was the product of people donating goods to this Royal wedding feast because even for a Queen all that sweet cake would have been such an exorbitant expense. Also, you know when when the English colonists moved ova to America. They brought the pie tradition with them. This is coming again from the American pie council in the New York Times, anti magazine, the colonist, basically eight pie out of necessity because it was an incredibly calorie dense food, and like we said it could preserve quite a few of their food items. Yeah. An Andrew Smith is a food historian an author said that the crust was a bit of a problem because. There were none of the old world, grains. But if settlers had a pie tin and maize that worked, and he talks about how pies useless flower than bread and could be easily and cheaply baked and again, though, these early American pie crust warrants so much intended to be eaten as designed to hold the filling Deering the baking and during the American revolution. A term crust was used instead of coffin. So we're still having evolution of pie making even as the the crust part is still not so much delectable. Well, and plus I mean pie was your handy dandy finger food because before them hidden mid eighteen hundreds most Americans didn't have forks we went for a long time in our nation's history without having many forks, so so we were a nation founded upon hot pockets, essentially. Yeah. I think that we yes this episode is brought to you by hot pockets. Now, even though most Americans didn't have forks before the mid nineteenth century what we did have though was pumpkin pie. Because the the first recipe known recipe. At least for pumpkin pie was written in the seventeenth century in England. And it was really just like, hey, we've got this. The squash spice it up put it in one of your coffins and bought a boom you got pumpkin pie. But then when we come over to the Americas wasn't popularized over here. Intil the early eighteen hundreds. Yeah. It originated from the delectable British spiced and boiled squash boiled, they boiled it. I know that we have a soften it somehow. I guess yeah. Now. Yeah, you're not wrong. But apple pie, another another favorite. It's an old world fruit introduced by the. Colonists. And apple pies could be saved over the winter and ice houses. So it was a great sweet as we said calorie riff treat that they could rely on to get them through long cold winters. Yeah. But speaking of that sweet treat a one of the appeals of an apple pie. Maybe was that. It was naturally sweet. Because again, the old world pies would not have had the benefit of of sugar because again, the price of sugar was so high for so long so instead of using sugar the initial sweeteners would have been things like maple syrup and molasses, although once the price of sugar star to drop the United States in the mid eighteen hundreds you have more and more sweeter pies takeover because in seventeen ninety six a cookbook from the time listed only three types of sweet pies. But then by the late eighteen hundreds you only have still eight types of sweet pies. But by. In nineteen forty seven. The modern encyclopedia of cooking lis- sixty five different varieties of sweet pies. Yeah. In that Graham, cracker crust that my mother buys from the grocery store to use in. My father's weird jello lemon icebox buys. It's infinitely easier than a pastry crust. But it's relatively new and it didn't come around until about the nineteen thirties. And it was it was very controversial among pie people. But I'm going to go ahead and say it a Graham cracker crust is just so good. Well, I think in my mind Graham cracker crust is second only to an Oriole cross. Oh, I agree with you there. Yeah. That's another thing about my signature French silk by I'll make an Oriole crust for it. Well, no, my my aunt every year makes for thanksgiving. Her specialty is making a cheesecake, beautiful plain cheesecake with an Oreo crust, and it is I could eat the whole thing. But here is here's a fun fact about American pie. Traditions because the most popular pie in the United States is the apple pie. There's a whole saying of as America's apple pie. We've got bye bye miss American pie. You know, we're all about apple pie over here. But it was not America's first beloved pie. In fact, George Washington himself was not an apple pie guy so much as a sweet bread pie, which means that all Martha Washington because this was in one of a recipe books. She liked to make a sweet bread pry pie for Georgia. Boy, but sweetbreads are not so sweet as savory because they are animal and Justin. Yeah. Oh, like organ meats. Oh, what's worse? Birds popping out of your pie organ meats. Well, I well, at least you wouldn't have to eat the empty bird crust thing crust by so contrary to all of this American. Lore about apple pies. Being the most American thing it was actually mince pie. That was America's number one treat during the nineteenth and early twentieth century and men's pie had some surprises in it, namely rum. Yeah. During prohibition, in fact, mince pie became sort of like a bootleggers delight because as pointed out in a great article on the history of men's pie in the Chicago reader, a nineteen nineteen article in the Chicago Tribune reported that the average alcohol content of canned mints like the filling the men's pie filling the alcohol content was fourteen point one two percent. That's that's a heavy pie. That is a heavy pie. But before then the Americans were already crazy about men's pie. I mean what what was it? There was. Oh, yeah. There was an eighteen eighty article in the montpelier are. And patriot that said mince pie like masonry arouses curiosity from the mystery attaching to it it's popularity shell never Wayne until faith is lost insight. That's how much we loved men's pi. Yeah. And the guy in the reader was comparing the downfall the fading out of the men's pipe popularity too. If we suddenly just decided to stop eating cheeseburgers as a nation like it was that popular and that ingrained in our diet, but it was also similar to us loving cheeseburgers so much. We also knew that it wasn't so good for us because men's pie is essentially a combination of animal fat, and sort of roast beef ish type of meat ground up, and then you had a bunch of spices. And obviously a lot of booze. If it's during prohibition, and you bake it altogether. And this guy in the Chicago reader. Baked his own men's pie, and he enjoyed it. Yeah. For its fatty spicy goodness. But there were some strange things that we're going along with this mince pie craze such as Albert Allen's mince pie defense in one thousand nine hundred seven. Yeah. So Allen was in Chicago. And he used mince pie as defense for fatally shooting his wife in nineteen zero seven he said that he was this mince pie had created such bad nightmares that he was like gambling and someone was trying to steal money from him. And so he wanted in his dream wanted to shoot the guy and he woke up any shot his wife dead. Yeah. And there was another case where a guy on a boat died and first I thought there was foul play. But it turned out that he had just eaten way too much men's pie. And so for that reason there were all these warnings about the bizarre side effects of eating mince pie. Because apparently couldn't eat just one piece all these stories about people eating like. Entire mince pies. And it led to things like, of course, indigestion but also nightmares, hallucinations, and even just just death. Reading that Chicago reader article and reading all of the ingredients that the guy used I mean, the amount of animal fat like weird weird animal fat that he put into it. I'm sure it did like instantly clog your arteries, but I can also imagine how savory that probably is as well. Again, vegetarians vegans, I'm sorry. But the topic of our thanksgiving podcast, the mother of thanksgiving herself. Sarah Josefa hail makes an appearance in the mince pie craze. Yeah, she wrote in eighteen forty one in the Victorian American cookbook, the good housekeeper the dangers of eating too much of this pie. We'll pie in general, right? Not just mince pie. She talked about. How people have delicate constitutions should not eat pie because it would injure them in that the nature of pastries. Just indigestible. And so she said, it would really be a great improvement in the matter of health. People would eat their delicious summer fruits with good light bread. Instead of working the flour with water and butter to a compound that almost defies the digestive powers and baking therein, the fruits till they lose nearly all the fine original flavor. So Americans have been panicking about the national diet for ever. It's like, yeah. Well, especially since they tied it into like doing crazy things like eating poorly and drinking too much made you just act like a crazy person. Well, and also at the turn of the century. There was this movement towards more exercise for people focusing on diet. I mean, speaking of Graham crackers, you have the invention of the Graham cracker. That was supposed to be the you know that your staple food that you lift off up to be healthier. So men's buys bore some of the brunt for that. And also just at that time people were making a lot of pies because. For so long. It was the standard way that we ate food but pie making did go through a twentieth century declined because of things like women entering the workforce. And so we we didn't have all that time to make pies. I know I can't imagine. I can't imagine the amount of time dedicated to cooking all of these meals every day cooking elaborate pies from scratch. Pie. Making did rebound a little bit after World War Two because modern food advances appeared that made pie making easier. You have things like shortening. You have ready made crusts box mixes and instant pudding, you have refrigeration, although all of those post World War, Two innovations that were so time changing and revolutionary in those kitchens of the time would now be very much looked down upon by modern pie makers are all about going old school with no shortening and using good butter and flour. And apparently there was in the nineteen eighties a pie revival. That's according to the history kitchen, and I feel like pie making and baking is really regaining a lot of attention today as well. But it's funny to look back and see that the most popular pies in our country still hearken back to those earlier eras of needing. To preserve food living off the land needing have something to do with strange confounding gourds pumpkins because according to a two thousand eight survey from the American pie council and crisco nineteen percent of Americans prefer apple pie, followed by pumpkin at thirteen but Khan at twelve banana cream at ten percent and cherry at nine percent. What I wanna know is. Where are the key lime pie lovers? Hello. Are you out there because I'm sitting here because I love a key lime pie Q Lynne Peiser. Maybe they had weird stipulations about the ingredients. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. But I will say that cherry pie always makes me think of twin peaks as well. And it makes me crave cherry pie. God. I just want pie. Caroline. I know I really just want a lot of food right now. I'm yeah. It's pie. Our by that I mean lunchtime. But we've got to now talk about gender and pie. Because there is a funny thing about pie wherein, you don't see a lot of culinary evolution. We're still eating the same pies that our forefathers inform others or eating and in a similar kind of way pie making the act of making a pie is still very much linked specifically to the female experience. Absolutely. I mean, you know, back in the day. That's that's who was in the kitchen making those pies. Whether it was from scratch, or whether it was using those modern pie advances in a two thousand eight pie slice of life survey man, two thousand eight it was a big year for pie surveys conducted by schwann's consumer brands of North America. They asked survey respondents which mother would make the best pie. Because obviously, they wouldn't be which person it would have to be a stereotypical TV. Mom. Yeah. Of course, also respondents said. Carol Brady of the Brady bunch forty percent of people picked her to make the best pie. All the TV. Moms followed by the Cosby show Clair huxtable with twenty two percent. And to that I say, please clear extra doesn't have time to make a pie. She's a lawyer. I was thinking the same thing. We'll anyway coming in third with sixteen percent was desperate housewives breathe van decamp and everybody loves Raymond's. Deborah Baroni with thirteen percent. We should also note though, that the same survey did also ask who makes the best pie. The number. One answer was mom number two. Was we'll your grocery store and number three was grandma. So again, we have, you know, women making the pies, and there is a book called can she bake a cherry pie American women and the kitchen in the twentieth century by Mary Drake mcfeely, and she talks about how in the rural America of the past a woman's reputation. Mike. Be attached to her pie making skills, and she talks about this folk song called Billy boy, which I had forgotten that I knew we used to sing it when I was a kid. And there's this verse about how well can she make cherry pie charming, Billy because he's talking about this amazing woman that he met, and it's like, well, yes, you might still be great. And really pretty. But can she bake you a pie, and he's like, yes, she can make a pie shows the apple of my eye. And then they're like, okay in that case, Billy go ahead marry this woman thank God. Because who cares about any other skills? Yeah. But even though as home cooking became less essential mcfeely says pie making continue to be seen as a measure of a woman's true value. Yeah. I mean, I think I think women are kind of getting the shaft there if our skills and our value is based on our our cooking ability. Although I mean, you know. Like, my mother, and our house has always done all of the cooking. It just seems like it's more of more of the women's domain and much like Sarah Joseph a hail wanted thanksgiving, for instance, to serve as a time for women to show off their culinary skills. And really be able to get in there. And celebrate a holiday for once pies were kind of that bump up to it was like, you know, show off your skills with lattice designs. Crazy things with crazy pastry. Shapes and things. Yeah. I feel like pie making is deceptively difficult because I've I've tried to make a number of pies. And honestly, one of the reasons why I make French silk pie is because it's so simple. You literally melt chocolate melt butter put in a bunch of sugar and mix until it smooth and poured into an Orioles shell or whatever gonna show you want. But to make a fruit pie one that has that thick, but. Gooey perfect filling and to do something like a lattice work. I have tried and failed so many times, and it might taste. Okay. But to make pie that looks good and tastes good is such a challenge. And I feel like we always think that cakes are so impressive because you they have to rise. And there are these these creations are almost like just like the huge towers, and you have the frosting and all the stuff that's going on whereas pies might look so simple to pull off. But I I can see how in the complexity of actually making pies how that translates to being this sort of a milestone culinary task historically for women because it's like, well if you can make a pie, then you must be good at other things. Well, and I mean, even the act of baking is celebrated by some as a feminist act Nigel Lawson. Famous. Tv cook got slammed for saying that baking is a feminist act. She said baking is the less applauded of the cooking arts, whereas restaurants, are male province to be celebrated. There's something intrinsically misogynistic about decrying tradition because it has always been female. I'm not being entirely facetious. When I say, it's a feminist tract. But speaking of feminism and pine making we did find a paper that looked into desert making not so much the as a culinary action. What how that relates to women's gender roles, but how we refer to women often in terms of pie and other sweets. This is a paper by Caitlin Hines called rebating the pie the woman as dessert metaphor. And she talks about how for instance, by eighteen sixty four the word tart, which is a type of pie it had the slang definition of a term of approval to a young. Woman for whom some attraction is felt and you know, here women being referred to as slices of pie or slices of cake, which Hines talks about how that implies objectification sexual consumption. And that like pie women are simply men for sharing. Yes. She writes as desserts women can be bond sold eaten elaborately decorated admired for our appearance to Smith us, sinful and decadent etc. Etc. And she cites the late Alan Dundee's. He was a UC Berkeley anthropology professor. And basically, he discusses the socially sanctioned saccharin quality of females which is confirmed later in life by such terms of endearment sweetheart Honeybunch, etcetera, etcetera etcetera, and so basically, you know, saying that these terms these sugary terms are away to dismiss women kind of in one fell swoop. But I mean, the thing is reading this paper about women as. Cert- metaphors. I understand it. There's obviously a lot of power in language, and when you stop and think about the terms, and the slang that we use to refer to people who are not exactly like ourselves, you can uncover some problematic things in that. But with this whole conversation about pie making and whether or not it might be wrong to call someone sweetie pie. I think I don't think that that. That's the issue. I don't see anything wrong with, you know, women making pies, I love to make pies up to eat pies. I don't know. It's like I feel like when you in reading that kind of analysis that kind of really specific analysis on the intersection of pies, and desserts and feminism, what did you think was it is it kind of too much that point? I mean, I tried to keep an open mind reading that paper. Because I I see what she's getting at as far as using terminology using slang to dismiss women or or somehow reduce them. But yeah, I mean, it's it's it's a paper talking about women as pastry, but that ties perfectly back to what Nigel Lawson. It was saying in terms of don't dismiss baking as a less legitimate or respectable form of culinary art compared to something like molecular gastronomy, something that seems you know, more scientific or or more. Male. You know, so I I it's fascinating when you sit and think about the gender politics tied up with because even today, it's still considered a female province the making of the pie. There was this blog post over at Chao from two thousand seven talking about a cookbook that was put out of the time by Patty Pinner, called sweetie. Pies an uncommon collection of womanish observations with pie, and the blogger Caras Wairoa talks about how the entire cookbook is a gender-specific spin on the art of pie baking. Yes, she quotes Pinner who says that she is a descendant of that generation where a woman's appearance manner and domestic prowess were synonymous with her feminine identity, and that kind of in light of talking about baking and a woman's place in feminism and everything I mean, that's kind of. That takes you back for a minute. But I think Pinner is celebrating pies and baking and just that that kind of artistry that goes along with it. It is weird that she said that she's a descendant of that generation where you're feminine identity was synonymous with your domestic prowess. But it's I feel like we have more maybe freedom to reclaim a lot of that stuff. These days there has been a revival of domestic arts whether it is pie making or baking or knitting or canning, whatever it might be. I feel like a lot of women are circling back to these kinds of slower ways of making things in the home. Yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, we've talked about stuff like that before like even with our manic pixie dream girl podcast. You know, where it's like will you shouldn't diss, you know, girlie things or baking or cupcakes just because they. They make you think of some type of woman that you don't like or you know, whatever we shouldn't dismiss people's pastimes their eating habits or baking habits just because we also tend to associate them with a bygone era. Exactly. Yeah. And by the same token, we shouldn't dismiss maybe men who wanna get in on the the pie baking game. I for one would love it. If my boyfriend ever wanted make me a pie. I should just ask him. I bet he just saved baked me a path they'd be a pie, please, sir. But speaking of which there was a recent post by sky, Brian O'Neill over the post gazette and. He talks about how he made his very first pie. He was like, I know this probably doesn't sound like a big deal to you. But he says, quote, I was born in nineteen fifty-six a member of one of the last generations for which gender roles were rigidly defined at least in my house. And it was a celebrate Ori act for him. He was like I made an apple pie, and it was delicious. And I didn't make the crust myself. But I still felt pretty cool doing this thing that would have felt like a subversive act for a man of my generation. Yeah. I mean, if he had done that if he had been that age the year, he was born making that pie people be like, what are you? Why are you doing that? Let your wife do that. Why are you cooking that pie? Where's your Betty Draper? You need some scotch. Go sit down. But speaking of male bakers now, we want to hear from me guys. We want to know whether or not you're baking pies, ladies anybody else. What's your favorite pie? Do you? Enjoy pie. Making. Are you more more of a cake person? Like Carolyn not gonna judge. Really, I don't discriminate against any sweets. But you know, it's so there are plenty of people who prefer the cake over the pie. I just I'm just more in the pike camp. Which may or may not have been part of my interest of pursuing this podcast topic. But yet again, I do feel like pie is one of those topics where it seems so simple and unassuming. But when you start unpacking the history there so much. Yeah. I mean, it it fed entire cultures for centuries. It was the way that people sustain themselves. They it was brought to the new world. You know, it was entertainment. Yeah. It was. Yeah. So many different things and bride pie. I like that idea. Screw wedding cake Avery, Brad. I'll have a midst by my wedding, please. So send us all of your pie related thoughts and any pictures of pie. Appreciate that any pie recipes. Send them all our way because it's the holidays, and it is time to eat FOX. That's right. So Email us mom, seven discovery dot com. Is where you can send your letter. You can also tweet us tweet us pipe picks at mom's stuff podcast or you can also message us on Facebook. And we've got a couple of messages to share with you when we come right back from a quick break. Support for stuff. Mom, never told you coach from our friends at rocket mortgage by Quicken Loans. Let's talk about buying a home for a minute because of rising interest rates. There's a lot of unpredictability when it comes to buying a home these days, it's causing a lot of anxiety with folks. Well, our friends at Quicken Loans are doing something about that. They're calling it the power buying process. Here's how it works. Quicken Loans will verify your income assets and credit in less than twenty four hours to give you a verified approval this gives you the strength of a cash buyer. Then once you're verified, you qualify for their all new exclusive rate shield approval. I the luck you're up for ninety days while you shop. Now, here's the best part. If rates go up your rate stays the same. But if rates go down your rate also droughts either way you win. It's the kind of thinking you'd expect from America's largest mortgage lender. To get started. Go to rocketmortgage dot com slash mom stuff. Rachel approval only valid on certain. Thirty your purchase transactions. Additional conditions or exclusions may apply based on Quicken Loans. Data in comparison to public data records, equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states and m l s consumer access dot org number thirty thirty. And now back to our letters. So we have a couple of letters here. From our episode on fetch a faction revolution NS. First one is from Lisa, she writes, I am a plus size woman size twenty four and I'm also a teacher at a local high school. I've always been self conscious about my weight because I haven't always been plus size. I realized that I have a great power to influence how young women see themselves. Just by the way that I talk about end dress myself. Can it be hard to find fashionable? Plus is close you betcha. But the hunt is with it for me. I am still young twenty seven. And I know that my students are looking at me as a role model what kind of message what I send. If I worked close at didn't fit properly baggie or too tight or if I hunched in Wisconsin trying to hide my body. I'm a fun smart likable person in my weight has nothing to do with that. I try to look my best every day. So my students see that it doesn't matter. What size? You are. If you love yourself and love. Others. I want to show them a woman who is not ashamed of herself in any way. A woman who knows it's what's inside your head and your heart that matters. And how do I accomplish that by my demeanor, my carriage, and my style, let's stop worrying about our size and worry more about our self worth. And the messages we were sending to the next generation of women here here. Lisa good for you. I have a letter here from Danielle about our fashion episode, and I just want to say thank you for including the picture of your freaking adorable dog. I squealed. So Danielle says, I'm an overweight twenty year old woman, and I have struggled with finding cute clothes that are well-made for years. I'm so glad that you did a podcast on the world of fashion. And even though I'm a plus size woman. I had never heard of the fetch and movement. I don't know how that is even possible that I loved it. Although I'm one of the women who is trying to get healthier and work out a few times a week, which is when I tend to listen to your podcast. I do love being able to find clothes that fit. My body now. So that I can still look and feel good while trying to maintain a healthy lifestyle. Also, you ask for places to find cute plus size clothing and one site that I found that I really like is simply be dot com. I just got a Christmas dress from there and eagerly awaiting. It's a rival so awesome. Thank you for your letter Daniel and thanks everybody. Who's written in mom stuff at discovery dot com? As Reagan send your letters. You can follow us on Twitter at mom stuff podcast. Find us on Facebook and Mike while you're at it. We're on tumbler as well. It stuff. Mom, never told you tumbler dot com and also on Instagram. Ooh. Please. Instagram us your pie pictures. We are at stuff. Mom, never told you and last, but certainly not least you should head over to YouTube and check us out over there too. We're at YouTube dot com slash stuff. Mom, never told you. And don't forget to subscribe. For more on this and other topics. Visit how stuff works dot com. Hello earth. Actually. Hello universe. We are here to tell you that. In addition to Tuesdays and Thursdays when you can get your regular stuff. You should know episodes. Just as you always have the last ten thousand years, wait ten years ten years. We're now adding a whole new episode of spin off show, that's really the same show. It's just a shorter episode. It's called short stuff. Yeah. We said, hey, sometimes we have topics that maybe aren't robust enough to fill out a full forty five minutes stuff. You shouldn't have facade though. We don't want to shortchange these topics these people, and so let's just make them short. Get over here. Short stuff and jumping our feet, right? Exactly. It's kind of like the Roper to our three's company. Yeah. Or it's kind of like aftermatch to mash, exactly. Although it's like neither one of those because those were regular links. This is shorter everybody. Yep. So you can go to apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Or just look for it in your. Feet every Wednesday from your friends, Josh choking, Jerry stuff. You should know shorter is sometimes better.
PMS 2.0 024 - A Poetic Thanksgiving Celebration With AJ Hawk
"Happy thanksgiving. It is November twenty second. We have a beautiful show for you today, a beautiful show, a poetic show of creativity and art people settle Billy. Shakespeare could write like a motherfucker. He ain't never heard nothing like what what's been written today. Lin-manuel miranda. We have a group of men hot on your heels today, we all wrote poems about what we're thankful. No in about our lives that we are currently living and for you to listen to on this beautiful hungover thanksgiving because I've heard last night is a large night for people to destroy their bodies with is that true. It's very true. I've never got to experience it. What I normally. I had worked or was playing on thanksgiving last year. I did not go out. But I've heard that this night is one for the ages. It's second to new years before say, yeah, right there, put it head of it. Put it head of it. Really? This is the big night because everybody's on from school. Everybody's home from work and everybody wants to see each other and see how life has been in show a little gratitude because I think thanksgiving does bring out the best in people. And so because the word thanks there is in the holiday so it sets the tone early for what it's about. And that's what our poems about later day. Nick also has some bangers for your thanksgiving holiday evening. Of course. Yes, you going. What are the tie-ins for the bangers? Well, it means obviously thanksgiving themed. Maybe it's some food. Maybe it's some family. Oh, he's keeping us guessing. Like that a lot it is all about family and friendship. I think that's what a lot of these poems are going to be about speaking of friendship. I'll be calling a broadcast this upcoming weekend on Fox Sports. What's known, Texas, Tech Baylor? Yes. With a friend of mine AJ Hawke AJ, and I had a thirty five minute discussion. Earlier today about the call about what I should expect what I should do and also just AJ hawk being. Hysterical. That'll be coming up right around the corner. But I I do believe you'll be able to gamble on me calling again. So you gamble on me calling a game? And you can only do one place and one place only. And that's my bookie dot AG. Have you ever wanted to place a bet, but didn't because you were afraid to pick the wrong team this thanksgiving? It's finally possible for you to get a hundred percent refund on your bed. If you lose it. What the Turkey day free play. You can bet this bread on either the bears or the lines. If it wins you win. If he loses. Mybookie will give you your money back up to two hundred fifty dollars. You literally cannot lose. It's no risk. All gravy. Turkey day Turkey. Daytime. Thanks you or an Italian Thai because it's not sauce gravy. My bookie offers such a great product. And they're literally never been a better time to try them out unless you're sportsbook is offering something like this. I'd recommend that you make the switch right now. I've never heard of a sports books doing this before. And I don't think it'll ever happen again. And I'm talking about with my bookie as well. This turns out this is going to be a big loss for them. Yeah. I think so as a small business, you never wanna go on a red no never giving away two hundred and fifty dollar free bets as a place that makes money off of bets that loose seems to be a way to go deep into the rental while move. This will never happen. Again, you need to get in on it. My bookie dot AG for the Turkey day free, play use the promo code, Pat on your first deposit. You'll get a fifty percent bonuses while so there's more free money for my book dot AG. That's promo code, Pat. You don't need a promo code for your Turkey day free play. If you lose we'll credit the money back into your account automatically. They say, well, you're what are you waiting for a sign up today and don't miss out on the train tournament. Bookie. So you make that bet on bears alliance. I'm probably going to hammer the bears struck because the lions at alliance ain't the right foxy now thanksgiving, we are the teams that different lines already hammered the lions and there are rumors going around Mitchell might be injured more than river more than rumors. I get chased Danieli playing in. If we watched Jason Euell playing the preseason the bears, Scott number. But they have Khalil Mack. So you never know what's gonna happen in by the way, this is a primetime game. So there's only one thing that that prime time player will do and that is make prime time plays. And I'm not sure the lions have enough prime time players to keep up with what Khalil Mack and do. That's neither here nor there. Because if you bet on the bears at mybookie dot AG. You're getting your money back. If the lions doesn't matter when you win two hundred and fifty dollars is what you're gonna do. You just got free money. Basically you use promo code, Pat. You've got a fifty percent deposit bonus. You got more free money. You're going to go to stored up at McAfee, show dot com and experience the greatest sale in the history of the internet. Twenty percent off the entire store from today. Thanksgiving at noon till Monday at seven pm eastern standard time an entire new line of March an entire new line of sweater. We got mugs we got hats. We got everything you could possibly need to not only gift others, but gift your treat yourself. Twenty percent off the entire store. We. Got some Christmas sweaters that are gonna knock the doors off of any Christmas party, you walk into we're going to you're probably going to get a blowjob you wear a least one foxy that's acid feel pretty excited very excited. You get them for free stored up at Maccabi show dot com. Twenty percent off the entire store. Go check it out. We appreciate you so much. Here's the conversation. I had with Jay hawk earlier today. On the phone now is a guy who's a color commentator for Fox Sports this upcoming weekend. As the Texas Tech football team takes on the Baylor football team in Jerry world. Dallas he'll be on the call with a guy named Sean Kelly from New Orleans is play by play in standing right next to him as a. Chime in guy three man booth guy. A man who's never been to a broadcast bootcamp myself, Pat McAfee with legend on the phone AJ hawk what's up aging. Just so you know that Texas Tech red raiders against the Baylor bears. You knew that in my intro that I didn't know their name their felt like you knew that. Yeah. Yup. I tried to draw drag out the Texas Tech. So my brain would think of the name could not come up with it could not come up with football squad. I talked to you a little bit this morning about this. I'm very intrigued to see how this goes have you ever been in a three man booth before? And how do you think it goes for us? Yeah. I've been in last year. I did a decent three man boots. With Danny Keno. Do a lot of people know, and especially in the college gay man, it can be tough just because they run so many plays like an often is running eighty five ninety play that there's not a whole lot of time to try to chime in. So the three man boobs. You gotta be on the same page with each other. That's a good thing though, is you may like me, and you will find a way to make it work. We might not have a ton of time to try to jam our points into the broadcast. But I think it'll be fun. I think we'll finish each other's. These finish that sentences. You're supposed to finish my sentence. Right there. I thought we were finishing each other's sentences. Oh, no. I thought you were just about to return rate. Their see we don't have a lot of time to get the chemistry back after we didn't entire podcast last year together Sunday, you don't really talk to me much anymore. Facetime. You one time. Now, you're so busy. I tried to FaceTime. You twice yesterday. When the announcement was made both times unavailable on believable too, by the way. So I'm trying to get our chemistry back here. But you just can't finish my. Now, I'm not gonna I'm not playing your game right now. Yesterday yesterday. You catch me and say, hey, can you call into this to my seller? This was two forty eastern. I said, yeah. In the next ten minutes because I'm on Sirius XM from three until eight pm on Tuesday, straight, the longest break is a two and a half minute commercial break in for you face. Tommy like three times at three thirty four thirty. And I gotta send you a text based on the, bro. Like, do you not get it? Happening. I was trying to hijack the show to be honest. I was trying to interrupt not that I would do that on Saturday. I have a lot of respect for that booth. I have to get a new suit for the booth. I'm real excited about that. What are you wearing a suit full suit? I maybe a full suitor. I told you about my stretchy pants out like where sometimes during the broadcast. I like to take a knee for some reason. It just makes me feel good. And I can't take a knee and my suitcase outstretch AJ, how many have some type pants. I'll definitely take a knee at. You're sitting next to me. If you take a knee. I might lose my mind I want to I don't know what do we happening on the field. But they've been a turn my microphone off because I will be losing my how long are these games? Three hours four hours. They could beat yet. Oh, definitely most likely be three hours. They can run over three. But probably not. I mean, you know, the running a million plays. The problem about the college game. They you'll see the clock stops after I out just for a little bit. But it can take a long time to to run a quarter. If they're not really running the ball. And they're getting auto first downs, man. It'll it'll stretch it out. So this is three hours of an open mic for me, absolutely, man. And it's a good thing to play by play guy. Sean kelly. He'll jump in. He'll explain the play. And then the floor is ours. We used to really explore the space, and then feel we can do. I can't wait to hear your incredible football insight in there. And then me with incredible. I don't I don't know about thinking about this fat with we could possibly be like the college version of Tessa tour win in booger. Imagine that. Oh my God. Imagine if we could get to that level of greatness. What do you think you can do it? Well, I'm gonna have to pull rabbit out of my head. But I. I think you can. I mean, you're going to be up in the foot. She that's what's good too. I don't think you would have agreed to do it. If they try to put down on the field and band like the third guy as like, they they weren't builder to be an analyst. But he's on the field. He's in that Booker mobile, and that's the problem. But if we can't feed you're going to step over each other. How do you know when to speak? Well, that's what actually I got a chance to talk to a couple of those guys this weekend. And that was something they I asked the same question, and it is difficult because I guess booger can see and right because on the TV's that he has. But it can't they can't see him. It's an interesting. It's very interesting. Hopefully, they'll be able to figure it out for it to go into the future and do something. Well, but McAfee mobile I would have been all about just want to let you know, if they would've offered that. I'm all the way the fuck, and if a McAfee mobile like a little Mario Kart outing down there on the sideline. I mean that would make sense especially like, why wouldn't they spend like a hundred grand to build a McAfee mobile for a game. That's being played the exact same time as a high. Seems like a little bit of a a skewed image of what the greatest rivalry in sports is possibly because you are an Ohio State. The better one. Oh, well, why why do you have to take shots at me? Like that. I was just thinking, they're, you know, potentially other ones that are great Oklahoma, Texas is a big one, you know, that's a little let's get outside of our region. Maybe stop thinking about WVU pit. We'll come back in maybe Penn State, maybe Penn State, Ohio State, but I was state sees Michigan is more of maybe it's Duke North Carolina. Maybe it's the Washington wild things the frontier league verse the traverse city beach bums, which I actually got the play in the frontier league. You don't know what a big rivalry? Is. You have no idea. Now. I mean, I guess you're right. I need to expand. My horizons is West Virginia Pitt is that really a rivalry game for trophy backyard brawl we don't do trophies because we're real we're not fake over there. But it got to have a mountain man carrying a musket. That's okay. It's amount near you. Call these games often, and you know. I've not done it West Virginia game. That's a little bit. Above my pay grade. See wasn't always like that. When I got there whenever I was a freshman. Nobody knows we'd never won a bowl game. Nothing like that. AJ hawks in the world probably would've called our game. And then by the way, you would have done so well on ours are West Virginia team probably would've took you right up to the top. You would have been joke. Clot. Oh, hey, look at that. You know, what though I Dana Hoeger Sohn? I respect that dude. He's one of my favorite head coaches in all of college football. Hope you've had a chance to speak with them. He and I had beers one particular evening when I first met him. I haven't talked to him since then he's got that visor scarlet thing going right now. And I love the way he's coaching team. That's the thing. He you would think like if you had that scarlet like, all right? Well, obviously visors are off the table. Those are not an option within like, Nah, I like visors. I don't care. I mean, that's the best thing. When a guy owns is not scared to do food. Well, Gundy confident you got old Gundy out there and Oklahoma state. He's been marketing his he has a very full Mollet. I that thing is real Kentucky waterfall, huge business up top party in the back that thing's awesome. But Dana owning the skull it. I think it's a good recruiting tool. I think it's a it's a marketable thing. Yeah. You got to do whatever you can I guess to relate to these youngsters. There's a dude I did a Utah state game Utah states actually really good football team their offense coordinator, Pat, you guys look up sometime nervously. I'm sure you won't. But he's got really he's got long blond hair. You kinda like surface Harry's wearing shades all the time. And I think he even said like, I don't really like having long hair. But for some reason when I go into recruit, you high school kids, it's like it gives me like an end, they see me, and then another coach come in this kind of buttoned up and looks old. Even though I'm still older. They think I'm like a young dude making relate to me, and it helps me recruit kids, and I was like man, that's a genius move. I guess that's what holder Sens doing and dundy. This is definitely what they're doing. There's no way Gundy thinks that thing looks good. There's no way he thinks it looks. Here's no way. Dana like looks at this. What I've always wanted granted personally, I think the mall. It is all the way back. I've been trying to grow at my lady won't let me she took fucking scissors to it. The one time when I started growing it was a wild move. If I could do what I would do. Heartbeat. But I think it's a good marketing thing, let's talk about marketing little bit. What do we need to do to get thrusted right in Thursday night football this weekend? Is there any way we potentially just get moved up the ranks next week. Oh, so we go from calling the Saturday college game to Thursday night, primetime NFL game to take Joe and Troy's job. Yeah. I mean, if anybody can do it, we can do it that what it really think. So what do we have? With your ground swell of support of all of your loyal fans. Love everything about you, say coz Cozzi all the time and sound like deuce bags of their parents and friends. I think we have a good chance. I don't know. What do you think? What are you going to? I think a lot of things after what he just said. I think you need. You know, the is Pat for the game you ever heard that board speaking on board with this conversation because all you're doing is just taking a bunch of bullshit shots at my people. Listen here Kuzma for her. Hold on. I want to take any shot that your people. I was saying because their parents don't understand maybe the world that they're living in this, Pat McAfee. World they're not they can't relate to their young. We can different languages what a spin zone that was that you just call me and my peoples deuce bag there you did it. I heard it right there. Okay. That's how you wanna take you years. I can't offend you. You have to be you yourself offended. It's unbelievable. Why am kind of offended? I don't know what a Boorda's though. I have no idea. What aboard is that's like a microphone board where I can like mute the the play by play guy chop chop in is that what you're talking about. Well, you do have like a cough button. And it talked back that you can talk to your producer. But no the boards like the the two deep dates you hold it. So you can Tennessee has everybody's number has little you can write a bunch of stuff on it. Oh, I've seen those. I don't do notes. Normally. My thing is no nuts. You ever see me on TV airmail says paper in front no notes for me. No. You don't need notes. I'm not saying he notes, but I could print you out an extra board and bring it if you want I gotta go to kinko's again. But it has a numbers guy. The ball. You're trying to watch replay. And you don't know who's the guy is obviously you just look down your board. You see? Okay. And we're fifty six that's the right guard, and you can say his name identify people. It's like a coach's play sheet a call sheet. Yeah. It's basically like a cost you just has it as positions on offense defense and the too deep. So, you know, who you're talking about it you want to say something about a certain player you get his name. Right. And you know, you you're not just guessing. Yeah. Probably knew was is kinko's still up. And you think you make a run over to kinkos still make that happen. I should be able to get you get one before. I I leave town here. Friday morning. I bring you on. Yeah. You know, the Centaur painting is still operate behind me. And my studio is still out. And I've seen what I've seen other stuff that looks like he got moved maybe out of it's not in the same position. No, it is it's in the same spot. It's right behind me. And we're actually selling merchant within on it this today the merchandise that we have a whole new line emerge, by the way up for sale stored up show dot com. Twenty percent off everything until Monday at seven pm. If we sell twenty five thousand items, somebody will get a four the brand brand AJ. But yeah, the Centaurs right behind me starts, the one of the greatest gifts I've ever received. I'm glad that. It's it's still up. Yeah. Believe me. I think the when I asked my buddy to commission that and told him exactly what I wanted. I feel like he emailed it. It's pretty spot on. And I feel like you you and body all that is that Centaur now my God, you call me douchebag just a little bit ago. But now, you're motivating me, this is a pretty crazy little roller coaster of emotions over friendship here. I can't wait to get in a booth with you. Yeah. I don't know. How do you? How do you? See it going. It's gonna be fun. I brother actually, my oldest brother text me pink last night. He said, oh, hey, that's awesome. Have you done a game with Pat before? And I said I don't think pats done a game. What do you mean? Like, I have you ever done any kind of. I know you've been you. You do TV over the place you do wrestling. But have you ever called a game? They would today didn't accept me for that broadcast boot camp that you all go to all these players that do the broadcast of of games and on TV in other panels. They actually did not accept my resume to get in. I've been I've applied numerous times and got rejected numerous times. So they don't even let me in there. So I have no no teach tape. No, nothing nothing at all. Except for what I see every single weekend. When I watch football games and listened to what each person saying I tried to do a little bit research. There's a lot of really terrible ones. I try not to learn from. But they'll good ones. I tried to chime in with. But there's not a lot of good three man boots. There's a lot of terrible three man booth. So I don't really I think I'm just gonna. Trying to find my own lane. I'll they back a little bit. Let the smart football guy talk. Call my people douchebag let the play by play kinda run his thing. And then I'll just kind of I'll pipe in like a sniper whenever there needs to be a heater every once in a while. No. I think you're going to be awesome. Trust me. The broadcast boot camp that doesn't do anything to help you calling games. You do a real real little bit talking about actually being a code analyst per game. It's more on like every other aspect of broadcasting. But the only way to get better calling games to call games. Just do it need reps in. But with you, though, you're such a unique guys that I think that's what people want. They don't want you to try to be. Yeah. Rex Ryan like when you first got on TV, he tried to be like a TV guy. Like, no, we want you to be Rex like be who you are on your your press conferences, be Brexit. Don't try to be buttoned up and all that. And so you've done enough TV though, you know, what you're doing nothing. That's why box what you to do the game. That's what I'm glad. I get to be the the guy sharing the booths with you. And that was really cute there. I thank you. For those kind words, I will say this though, I'm pretty solid being me in most situations in order. I mean, I mean there was a couple handshake kiss. The ring situations I had to do in LA where. I wasn't fully me. And it was kind of uncomfortable. I had to complement people that I didn't want to compliment you get it. All right. But when I did on this particular weekend in that booth. I'm really excited to let her fly. I'm real excited to let her fly. See what comes out of my mouth. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing too. Especially working for FOX FOX values personalities over anything else. I feel like there's other thing about like CBS more like old school buttoned up ESPN. There is a little bit of both maybe, but I feel like FOX out of all the networks, and especially people calling the games they like people are personalities look at the number one crew. Gus Gus is the most electoral sizable crazy play by play guy play by play guy that usually just right down the middle. Just presenting the facts, basically, and gust is awesome. So that's what FOX life. So that's why they they want you to do this game. Do you know this this play by play guy at all? I do not I've never done a worked with a lot of different guys. I know he he works for what the pelicans the basketball squad. And also the saints. I think he does some stuff for the saints to he's he's done the by dire. He'll be awesome. And he will. I'm sure he's he's pumped. We'll talk to you. I'm gonna talk to them later this afternoon on the conference call with Texas Tech coach is I don't know if you're jumping onto not, but we'll get to speak with them. And then we'll get to hang out with them Friday before the game. And it I'm sure he's excited to different. I definitely I'm sure different than any booth. He has ever had for football game having myself in you there next to them. I can't wait for that conference. Call. I what time is eating. Four thirty eastern new send you an Email with dial in information. Are you really gonna join? Yeah. Of course, I've been planning for this conference. Call day who were talking to. The Texas Tech and what's their what's their team name? What are they? What are they don't war raiders merry go? Yup. Texas Tech war raiders. The red raiders, dude. Reckon I already know their hashtag their whole thing. We're talking to we're talking to all of the Texas Tech were raiders. Okay. Four thirty all of them every player every coach can be a while. Is that serious right now is it like FaceTime. Or is it? No, we'll talk to their head coach cliff Kingsbury Gibbs and and Kevin Johnson Owen d coordinators. What are you going to ask them? Just so I know going in what type of questions I should have ready to ask. Honestly, I I wanted to ask I might ask cliff. I'd click on my podcast couple of years ago. And he was awesome. I wanna know I might ask cliff cliff? So do you have any idea about this cruise broadcasting your game that you're trying to become bowl eligible and the shenanigans that are going to be happening up in the booth through your time when you're trying to hang onto your job and justify keeping your gig as your dream job. I wanna see when he says that and I'll follow up cliff. Is there anything you'd like me to say during the broadcast, and maybe a booster as listening or watching that might save your job follow up? Hey for real for. Honestly, he would love it. I mean, you don't have to say to save your job. But just say like, yeah. What? Yeah. That's honestly, do it. That's all they care about like, the good, the smart, and coaches, they know how to work. With the media to make them look good and everything about them and follow up thing, though about the follow up to the following cliff. I see that your first name is cliff with a K in your last name Kingsbury with a K. Did you ever think that if your parents named you cliff Kevin Kingsbury that would be pretty tough to sell later? The question is what is this middle name? I don't know. It's Tom it's Timothy I just looked it up. It's Timothy which is my dad's name, which is a real shame. I was really hoping it was like Kevin or something. It'd be great. If he was cliff Kevin Kuenssberg. I never thought about that. I guess it's common fence at the ks. We're kind of off the list when you're thinking middle names if you have your first and last name already picked out for him. I've been watching a lot of documentaries for a lot of people. That'd be a dream name. Just want to let you know. A lot of docs there. There's a lot of bad bad white people out there AJ. I did not do there's there's one on Netflix about the area and nation or whatever. And I had no idea there are small like in relative to population. They're a very small group of humans. But boy there a terrible batch of white people that I did not know still exist on this world. They're very it's a small two hundred of them basically in the thing that are talking about. But there they do some terrible. I had no idea they still existed. I'm being serious when I say, it was very naive of me to think that that that level of stupidity still exist, but there's like a good two three hundred thousand Georgia's still running around with all these torches and shit. Wow. I didn't know I didn't know they still vis thought. Yeah. There's some, you know, weird hillbillies that that may have some racist thoughts or writing. No, they're actually still gathered. Yeah, they still gather. They have an Email list to newsletter that was the big that was a big part of the documentary was the this first lady of the I forget what they call themselves. The knights of something. The first lady sends out all the emails. It's big job. It's a big job. She's g frontline of recruiting for the the racist. White people. The first lady says, she's the the wife of the headman whatever his name is. He wouldn't get married to her because he doesn't want to appear soft. So that she was just girlfriend. So I. These. I I am so deepen documentaries on Netflix. I know a lot more about these weird subcultures than I should I've being serious when I say that. But it all adds it all adds to stand up. It's though all adds to stand up. It's. AJ's the best. 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I'm still I'm not I don't know. I haven't done a show in a while. So I guess it's kind of up in the air in the middle. I'm just wondering you ever done it. So what have you ever done it? No. Why? Standup. I mean, I. I don't know. Why would I try that? You're a great storyteller. I'm not really the dynamic storyteller. You I give speeches and stuff it places. Decent money doing that. Is it motivational is it motivational? No, absolutely. Not it seems like it's probably motivate you, if it's a corporate speech, that's a motivational speech. I know what? You're just lied to me. I would like to hear your motivational speeches though. What are you? What do you go with someone? If someone is motivated by something I say, maybe, but no, I'm I'm the anti motivational speak speech, bro. I did a pre game show last week in Blacksburg Virginia. And they had they had me give us they wanted me to look at the camera and give a pep talk to the UAB blazers playing am I told the producer going on my K, man? Like, that's not really my thing. I hate pep talks. I disagree with him. I don't think they do anything. I disagree with. No joke. He was like well you when he was really cool when he showed me one that this guy that hadn't studio does. And he's the guy was really good. He's animated whatever comes the complete opposite of what I would be. I basically told them I was like all right. Well, yeah, I'll do it. But withstood whatever, and I just gave a short anti pep talk, basically to the UAB blazers you're saying like how dumb pep talk star of these are stupid. You should be offended that there had me do this. Why would you need this? Like you guys. You guys are nine and one year. Good team. You don't need a pep talks. Give me out of here. This is dumb. Sorry. By the way, I had to do. So I had to do. It was terrible. So you did give them a pep talk. Though, you said you guys don't need this. You guys are so good. You should have faith in yourself. There's not a guy who's got incredibly good looks in great hair who went to state and played for the Packers. And now is on television wearing makeup. There's nothing that guy can say that makes your team better team. This is stupid. You guys are a great squad already get out there. And do your thing I'm done with this. That's what you said that's a pep talk. What you just gave you just gave them a pep talk. Yeah. I guess it turns into that. But you through your your vision? It sounds much better. So maybe I should have brought you down. But I haven't that's another thing ama- motivator. I am a motivator. I don't wear makeup, but the play by play guys I work with they bring their own little thing and they put their own makeup on. There's not make people there at least crews I work on. What are you gonna do? You think you're gonna bring your own nom spray tan, and I think Friday morning, that's all the makeup. I need. Just put a little town on desires skin makes me look damn good on forte. Who's gonna spray chain? I got this company. I just go not a company a small business here in Indianapolis. I walk in. They know the deal I want dark tint make me black real quick. And we go out there and really make it good. Okay. You're not allowed to do that in two thousand eighteen oh, we just had Halloween. You know, you can't do that. Megan Kelly loss or gig for asking that question of why what Brown one what a dumb? Phages used as an excuse to get rid of her because they like her in a ratings were awful that site, and she's still got paid sixty nine mil though. Right. She one thing. I mean, she looks. She got a bad rap there for a long time, which probably not bad rap is very stupid question. But she made she's now a professional golfer. Probably she's just getting paid sixty nine million probably the Gulf on a daily basis. Well, she should go back to socks news now. Right that that's what she her. Specially wasn't no Tucker Carlson cut there and took her spot in drove the ratings up even higher. So maybe maybe it put it on before Tucker. I'm assuming that she pissed off people at FOX whenever she wants to NBC, I'm assuming she might just be done. If I have sixty nine million dollars in the Bank, by the way. I don't want to say that. I am a guy that would disappear, but I think I'm gonna head get an Andrew luck. Peyton Manning flip phone don't do an island. I'll know if you ever fuck and see me again if I get sixty nine. You say that you say it all the time. Hold on. Hey, everybody. Hey, hey, you ship. Please facetime. You're in a hold on do, you know him? Thank you. Yeah. I'm actually interviewing AJ hawk right now. He's on here. He can hear you. Yeah. We're analyzing a lotta shit magin AJ's going to do a lot of the analyzing. And I'm just probably going to be piping in with one liners. He got this weekend. Hey, who do you think's gonna win AJ? Between tech and Baylor wells texts starting quarterback plays. They should definitely light it up. But if not it who knows. Well, yeah. Because he's on a FaceTime. He's in my headphones. He said he thinks if Tex quarterbacks they're playing techs going to light it up, but just for future reference. I don't like to predict games that I'm calling it's kind of my standard. So I won't give you an answer. Yeah. Me and Herbie kind of the same way. We don't wanna really put any negative vibes into the air. We just want to see a good hard fought game between student human athletes student humans. I athletics third. Do you want to say anything AJ? Do you guys know each other? Played against him. Was he dirty was AJ dirty? Did you guys ever really get into it any CD caused for either of you by either of you? Hey, AJ that guy is one of the dumbest guys in history. I don't know how to. I don't know him. Well, I've known I know of played against them. But I I don't know personally. But I know I've I've heard him on your show and more here on the more. I like that dude AJ he is a guy that is a lunatic for sure at absolute attack. But a hilarious one. You also saw Pat anger echo. You are are chimes yours specifically of not letting dude spray water in your mouth. I love that. I've been saying that for adver, man. And that's that's something. I told my wife man, I don't know if it was during it was before after Pablo knew there's no way anyone's ever never get offended. If it tried to act like they wanted to squirt water my mouth, and my good buddy who's a joke and try to get me during a game at a time out. I would smack the bottle out of his hand. And try to fight him on the field. My wife like the probably the most practicing. I am about from my career from second grade on is that I never laid on the field wants hurt and never let anyone squirt water my mouth other than that. I don't care. But that was two things. I'm very proud of. It is tough to watch guys. Just let other people spray the, but like you, you're so tired. You can't just grab the thing and sprayed. You're so tired. You. Can't squeeze a bottle in your some person who makes a living trying to make everybody's life a little bit better. These these water boys that people talk about these people have fourteen hour days during the season trying to get people right with stem rehab and everything like that these guys and girls get yelled at by the GM's because players are hurting that they didn't hurt. They're getting yelled at by players for making them sit out these water boys that you speak of their lives are terrible. And then they're going to squeeze water into people's mouths. That's unbelievable. It will to grow entrenched to it's happening. More and more. I'm sure it happens in highschool now, man. I I are any high school coach at here's this like do start that earlier kid. Can you imagine the entitlement that you get if you're a fifteen year old kid, and you have some trainer squirting water your mouth like there's no hope for that kid. He has no chance. The only time anything she can squirt it in your mouth. Is if you're doing, you know, obviously, non sexual related we're talking about non sexual related is if you're out of bar, and they ring a bell or siren, and they tell you get up to the bar in a little person comes sprinting out of the wall with a bottle of whatever tequila vodka anything like that in his just pouring it into people's mouths while running down the bar. I recommend that by the way. I'm not against that. At all. I've done it on numerous occasions at a bar in Pittsburgh the little person with from my high school. He was a legend rest in peace to his beautiful soul. He passed away. Not sure if they still do it. But that is something you can definitely allow get dumped down your throat. I think. Of course, anything with alcohol any I think is allowed. But yeah, definitely not like on the field in front of people in front of cameras were millions of people or possibly watching. I guess the alternate disrespectful move. I don't feel disrespected by. I would talk to them all the time. I would when I was in Cincinnati. I remember talking to the trainers. They would be walking around one up and down the line during practice trying to squirt water. But hey, what are you doing stop off water? If you own it for him in front of his hand, he can grab it if you wanted but do not put that in front of a space and just that that shouldn't be your first offer to score data's mouth. It's not like it doesn't work like that. Like you work with us. You don't work for us. So stop doing that stuff. Man. I don't know who started. But I it makes me crazy. I would love to that's a motivational speech, by the way, you just gave another motivational speech. You work with us. Not for us. That's motivation. Look at you just being all types of motive. You're like the next fucking Lou Holtz out there with your motivation. Oh, okay. I was thinking about when I I told Doug Gottlieb was the host of the show is looking I was like what does I thought about doing like a Lou Holtz impression for my pep talk. What do you think he's like? Over a well tonight. You're a Bumblebee bumblebees bodies are way too big for the size of their wings. They should not be able to fly at the scientific fact that bumblebees and not be able to go off the ground. But tonight, girl Bumblebee, your outweighed outmatched like you'll fly tonight. Like a Bumblebee tonight, you make magic how about the magic tricky did with the newspaper that one time he ripped up the newspaper, and then he folded it and then by the end of it, it was a whole newspaper. Again, Lou Holtz is fucking legendary. Yeah. He is. He he does that newspaper trick about two hundred and twenty times a year and all his speaking gigs. I know that much makes cash. Now. Okay. Interesting sentence, you just put there because it was slapped at Lou Holtz for using his same Hackney thing. And then you complimented him at the end from which cashing make. So I don't know how I feel about what you just said about Lou Holtz. Good. I'm glad you don't know how to feel. Was it a shot at Lou Holtz or compliment Lou Holtz right there AJ? I don't know. I don't know. If however you interpret it. I'm just putting out there things out there, just stating facts. I can't wait for Saturday with you. You're the man have a great thanksgiving. Happy thanksgiving. Do you want to say happy thanksgiving anybody, or is that kind of anti your thing too? Who else is in there who else in the office with your right now? Everybody's in the office at some some point scattered around. The we got a big merchantville going on. So there's a lot of panic happening right now in the office. Oh, happy thanksgiving to everybody in the office over their land radio. And maybe to you. That means a lot. Two hundred thousand people listening to you could've maybe said happy thanksgiving to them. But that's not your thing. That's not your second. Pandered Virata applause for all the troops. And the firefighters out there. Troubles right now. I want wanna give you I'm giving. You can't see me. Appreciate everything you do. Now once that you wish them happy thanksgiving. So that's pretty interesting really pander pandered to every single possible group. I can't that we'll come on the air like that. All right. I'll see you at the press conference ad. Four thirty at the conference. Call yet. No press conferences happened today. Yeah. I'll be there. Do you see what we just did? We just finished each other's. Not your dancing monkey. All right. Hey, look, we'll raiders. The ending of that interview might be the greatest interview, I think so. I think so I think it is because it was coming full circle. He finished my first sentence tie. And then he refused to finish my second center because he said, I'm not your dancing. He's the best. I'm so lucky. I'm in there with him. Honestly. I don't think there's anybody else. I'd rather call a game. What's going to be awesome? As a human. I I've talked with AJ hawk for Newt like probably fifteen sixteen hours long intimate converts long conversation. Oh, yeah. And now we're going to be into booth, and I don't know how to say this. But I am just going to make that thing show. I don't know if they know that I have no idea what their expectations are for the three man booth situation. Bumble make that thing that show there. I know actors knows I'm here for the show on the screen that you don't be able to draw on screen. Absolutely. And he will. Hey, Bob Ross in draws some happy trees out there block on f s one Saturday, right noon, f s one Saturday, Texas Tech Baylor live from Jerry world, which I'm probably not allowed to say if I had to guess. It's going to be a lot of fun though. Michigan Ohio state will happen again. This won't this. We'll probably. You know? Navigating the Goshi Asians with companies that are mainstream networks that allow you to be a third man booth or maybe let you on TV and things like that can be very complicated. Hey can be very complicating. Have no idea what you're supposed to wear. What you're supposed to say. What they like what they don't like that can all be very complicated interviews shopping for the holiday season, also, very complicated and confusing very thankful that Tommy you on in our website or offering these huge deals where people, but there's one gift that you're more than just giving your donating to somebody, and that's tickets to sporting or live event. Tell you why you're donating them because it's not just the ticket itself. It's much greater than that. It's a story at a holiday like thanksgiving about oh, you remember when we went to insert name of awesome event here that you got a ticket to it's something the night before you get married, you'll think back upon you'd be like do I want to get married? I remember when I did this with this. Yeah. And then you'll be like, yeah. I do because now we'll go to these events with the love life. Obviously. It's exactly what would be obviously. So a perfect gift. This holiday season is from your friends are friends the greatest ticket up on earth. Seek seek is the credits ticket on earth because they offer you the most bang for your buck. No matter what your budget is. They'll get you the greatest tickets for that particular price. Whether it's sporting events theater comedy shows anything on earth Seekie has the best tickets to and you won't get catfish. What you think you're getting you are getting because seeking does all the research for you you can shop with confidence at seek and seek. We'll do one thing and one thing only deliver for you. So get somebody in your family ticket to alive event. Whether it's an NBA game NHL game football game any of the comedy your life theater shows. It's something they will. Thank you forever about also quite a conversation starter for these awkward family gathering something to think about go. Download a c key cap right now. Use promo code, Pat and get ten dollars off your first Seekie quarter or use promo McAfee and get twenty dollars. Holiday season, save every fucking. You can't. Use promo code battery from McAfee get twenty dollars off. I or you could probably go get to very good tickets for less than fifteen bucks with that twenty dollars off type thing sometimes think about get out there to live a little bit you're alive. But are you living go live with all right? Let's I would like to hear the thanksgiving poems that everybody has written proper. Yeah. Riposte author. It's on all those things. I would like to hear them. I don't think we play music in the background. I think would just kind of let them meet we'll go around the room and from our small business to all of you listening. We're very thankful and here is some poems from the group starting with Todd mccombs. This thanksgiving, I'm thankful for the following stuff. It's a no particular order because the draft is rough. I'm thankful for Sarah Josefa, hell, she wrote Mary had a little lamb in a letter addressed to president Lincoln expressing her love for smoked Turkey and ham. Oh, we need a new holiday. She wrote one where we show thinks instead of greed, we'll have food and drinks with family and friends. Sounds like a good time old Abe Lincoln. Agreed. Oh, new holiday was born in the response was Mary. Hurry. The crowd shouted. We can finally get rid of all this fucking cranberry. We've been stockpiling it for decades and storage isn't free. The only people buying our senior citizens having issues when they p. Well, we should add something to the law was the PS at the end of her letter. No politics should be spoken at dinner that will help ensure the families get along better. The Lincoln fell to read to the end, which means that last part was dumped now we have to stomach the shouting because cousin Ian and grandpa. Don't agree about Trump. So I'm thankful for Sarah. Hell she's responsible for the special Turkey day a holiday without gifts means times with family, but no one has to pay except for cousin, Ian who can't keep his liberal lip still. You really pissed off Grandpa's. And now he's been cut out of the will. He was counting on that money to pay off his student loan debt and catch up with his bookie because he lost his ass some bad bets. He had to get a new identity and move away to a whole new town here he was down like three large. If you stayed here. He didn't up in the ground last. I heard he ended up in Alaska, but it's been eight years since his voice was heard dead or alive. It doesn't matter. Thanksgiving's are way better now without that wine. ES third got them. Let's go thanksgiving home. Indian? As soon as I soon as I heard you take a shot at I knew the poem was. Dying. I think I was the only one it was very loud reaction. Take a ride there. He was going going going. And then he took that first shot at the, and I was like well here we go. Thank you thought was incredible. Thank you. Now from Plum high school whose teachers are striking as they don't teach good. Strike from holiday park. He has a good beard. He's a degenerate, ladies and gentlemen at digs with z. My assignment was a poem shouldn't be too hard might be so good. You see it on a card. I'm here to tell you some things that I'm thankful for one is having this job that makes me slightly less poor. I'm thankful for eating wings in bed and erotic actresses who are on porn hip, giving head also for a nice fat hangover pizza, and that I am not from the Bosnian towns Sandinista. Oh my God. You have no idea. What sleep means to me? I love it almost as much as a credit card with a low APR fee. No idea what I would do without TV and movies. Life would be terrible. I might as well shoot me. Can the gold gambling is bad for you at tale? I was never told back covers and hammering the over Paul was my religion, not Passover. Old-fashioned tito's. You can't beat those in the vape pen at night has me feeling so right. Oh, shit goddamn, my computer just fucking froze back. Oh shit. I almost forgot my fans. I think that's it. Just kidding most thankful for the fans. Oh, and certainly least I'm thankful thankful for my work amigos to any of their funerals. You sure won't see migos. Movies in shoot me. Comey pizza, and what was the Bosnian towns. Sabahi needs. Of course. Incredible Ryan, the teachers teachers should be paid more there really should another Mustang from high school hockey fans optimist, Nick, Ron, thank you. Above all other above all others this year this great day ranks the data. Stay humble the data gift. Thanks thankful for Bailey. Thankful for Todd. The mcculloch's family makes minefield less odd. I'm thankful for poxy wizardly editing skills. Thank for for Connor his voice, so terribly terribly. Shrill thankful for TI who sacrifices sleep. So you're you're stabilised each and every week. I'm thankful for Zito his magical grin thankful for digs. My pies auto Ken thankful, fulfill not really, but you get it. I only put them on here since he handles our checks won't let us forget it. In certainly thankful for you, Pat who gave us all chance to work for the greatest small business on earth in 'cause you a huge pain in the ass. And finally to the listeners, I beg. Let's eat. Let's drink and celebrate thanks to you all for carrying. What bullshit we say? Keeping keeping up with us tuning in every day. Oh, it's been a ride thus far. And no we hear ain't done yet. Raise a glass the Pat McAfee show family. Yes, it's the best. You can get. Here here. Frank a. You're good at it. Yeah. You are. I can't wait to hear what you're about. Chicago real wordsmith high Q man Viva though. To take a hike or not take. That is the question don't they for Pat and the boys when our brains work together, it brings the noise. I'm happy. They accept the guy from Illinois. I'm always thinking twitch stream. Even though Pat thinks is the money scheme. It's not I promise you, but make sure to follow at Twitter dot TV backslash, Pat McAfee, and let's watch it grow. That boy tau. Oh. Okay. Let's I think ties is probably gonna be very good. And also Connors to Connor. You had a writing your degree? I've dabbled in the arts of writing. Yes. I did see video from you in college. You sent to us. I assume her college career was what he took very serious. Honestly, just the major. I think he's I don't know just send it back to the booth behind the both booth. Yeah. The boo it's an eight Jane, Sean, Kelly. Donner on field on the be on the need for this one like AJ. Well, AJ hawks said he's going to take a knee in the middle of the game. That's his thing. The comfortable anyways talking about his knee this. I thought he the piss probably that is. Well, I think I can't wait to hear my reactions wants to hear what I say live abroad. I wonder if he brings us piss joke. You remember the thing he keeps under his desk. Cats weird kind of thinking about it. You're probably gonna need that by the way, not piss jog. My bladder knows what share my bladder Nosema Showtime. I would share this bottle with aging. I'd probably just know right in that hall without any fuming by the guests, by the way. Grand Canyon type. I was just waiting on new sorry. Okay. 'cause from Michigan. He went to Michigan state. He claims to know nothing about the doctors up there. Correct. This is true. He's a video editing hero from Michigan for the small biz. Evan foxy. Thank you, pal. Also single vary. Could could mingle too. All option hasn't book could as the potential say the ability. I'm I'm worried two people could potentially think that he doesn't maybe have a pain. Could mingle even on thanksgiving. We're going to do this. Well, this is the fourth. This is coming on thanksgiving, though. I would never say this to you and thanksgiving I said I would like to preface in the show that I said this yesterday. Foxy? You didn't deserve. Okay. Here's my poem. He did not deserve that edit that out. Yeah. Roses are red violets are blue I worked for a small business were idiots. It's true Zito in digs with brains. Also, bright and good old Nick Maroteaux. Golly. He is such a delight. Don't forget Boston counter Connor the loudest of the mall in our good old. Uncle todd. He's old as ball. And then there's Tosh mitt his Gruden is a hit. Oh. And of course, Pat McAfee, he's the captain of our ship. Oh, there's nothing more important than the fans of this show. I hope you have an amazing day. Cheers to you. All. Yeah. I really I I did that one. One. Did that last one while the show was going on? I was gonna end. I was going to end it with a ship need to say something about the fans. But the thing about you literally have to edit videos all day. Yeah. There's no time for you to write a hero, literally just finished it. You did great there, folks. Good. Thanks for those that don't know. The only time Fawkes really gets out of his whole is during these shows. Yeah, you guys didn't even ask me to come in. I just saw. So that's where we're at. No, no, no. That is not. And that is not true. I mean the way for you. We didn't interrupt. Yeah. We can literally see his whole from right here is right next to him. You're making a video for twelve o'clock sail from twelve pm on thanksgiving till seven pm on cyber Monday. Yup. Yup. That's what I was doing. There. It is. Store dot com. Nailed it. Also, while we're here, you can become a member of the pub, we have pub shirts coming out. I know there's a good person. They're not bad. Either. A member of the pumps shirt. I'm not buying one until one certain thing. They're not bad. They're unbelievable. What needs to happen? Till pump cats debt, I'm not buying. Oh, that cat because of its Twitter account or because of it in rule like real life. Really what happened gave Nick pink guy? No, no, not true fake news. Now, maybe Maine but not thinking, hey, look, I can take slander on the pub do not slander pub cat. All right. Dick's. Let's see. Are you a cat fan? You are. We blend truth last night at the Petco, or whatever was so cool poke liked it. Traits. No, no. I got him through the bikes. Eight the cat. Just looks like like hide it. All right. Thank you for that. I wouldn't say this tomorrow on Thanksgiving Day before they before fair. No, he doesn't like your cats using he's in a lake some strange feral now nutrition classroom street, like the one that heights that one's more like pub cat than any of the other ones because novacaine from St. teddy steals my water. So fuck Titi tiny last night hijacked, all of SAM's place. I never seen anything like it. He put his paw on the plate in dragged it to the other side right in front of us. It was a long time. I just I literally was just watching it happen Sam like turn back around. She's like what's going on? He's moved from there already. It's incredible. And then every once in a while he'd like stopping like lick his policies even likes the taste. Maybe be like. Yeah. I do. Thing was awesome. Who's this morning? He was loud too. He was not happy somebody needs to give him something. I don't speak his language yet. Like, we talk. Yeah. But I don't know what he's yelling about every morning. I've no idea. I tried to give him water this morning. Nope. I tried to give them some catnip. Hey, here's some drugs. No, it's not the worst. When you're no. You're an will want something. But you don't know what it is. It's unbelievable. It's like just talk. Oh. Vowel like look at things that she wanted like, she'll give me like, hey, I gotta take ship. Why don't you fucking get up? I'm sorry. It's gonna take care of that bladder Val. I'm becoming huge animal person, obviously. But I I really am starting to get why people are animal that makes sense. I never really had ADD. That's why I don't watch any movies or anything never had the time. Just to hang out. I'm starting to get why animals our lives so appreciative. Once you feel that love your all in brow when I got home from LA Sam, obviously, very excited to see me. But I get here. Vallis tail hitting off the wall at the other side. I was like oh my God. This is this thing really enjoying would you save Alex you or Sam Moore she likes him or to Sam saved her? So she knows that. But I I am definitely somebody that she is taking a kin to their for. She actually she does like like she'll she'll literally knows in Tuttle me every morning, they call this dog. Oh, this is so cute. And then he's not damn cats. Meowing at me all the time. It's awesome. That's what I'm thankful for. No. Let's skip thanksgiving. I was saying that tomorrow bodily. The mean stuff we said the foxy that he did not deserve. You did not deserve that pace. You did not deserve. I don't know. If that makes me feel better at this point. We're knowledgeable. Yeah. True. Very true. You know what? I mean be different if you deserved it. So when I listen to this tomorrow, I should feel a lot better. Because you I said it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Three x though. So it's like, yeah. That's section. I didn't know people actually did that though. Yeah. I learned to people do that this weekend, by the way, people tell me they listen to my show in two two. Excellent. What do I sound like they're? Couldn't even fathom couldn't even couldn't even fathom what I sound like maybe I sound like this. We one breath thing. Do you think there's an ability to turn the podcast to a four exit Hemi sound like this can I play. Yeah. Yeah. How insane was that? Is that I I stumbled across that the other evening while on some vitamins just playing I think it might have been on the plane, actually I just had like a headset on and I'm just like sitting there listening, and all of a sudden that that song showed up somehow in a playlist because whenever you play your own playlist they'll cycle in other songs too. I've been learning this. It's like playing this radio or something in this song came on. And I think I might have been like half asleep almost half asleep. And then all of a sudden he's like you guys ready and somebody said, yeah, like woke me up, and then all of a sudden it was like. I looked at my like paused immediately looks at my phone, and I was like what the fuck was that who was and it was logic. I was very impressed. I I don't think I've been there in wall as on that song, and I met Mr. whale himself this weekend WWE thing that me up for well, let me food food up. And I said why is my name wall lay? But they keep saying WALE. I appreciate your love g Comi g damp up and then walked away. I had my gold. I wonder if I wonder if Mr. wall eight knows respect I wonder if he knows so huge WW guy wrestlemainia to he has Walea mania way while a mania will he has something like that. Every wrestle many has a huge show. He's a big WWF van. He was just running around through sitting wherever fuck he wanted where. And there was another guy Raisch Roman sway leading something. He was wearing a see through shirt. Suspect does it was a see through dress shirt. Okay. The see through drescher. He was right there right in front of us with his big tall white guy. Who's like his manager? I guess you knew our agents. Everybody knew each other like, oh, that's blah, blah, blah. He was taking selfies of himself with a he just bought a belt. He was into it though. Oh, yeah. It was awesome to see. It was good for the W w. Yeah. That's all right. Let's get back to these pose by the way, that's a talent with that. Dude. Did their highly towns, do do you think it's the four x thing or do you think he actually did he said one breath? Nice. And are you ready? And we said, yeah. So he wouldn't was no, no, no, no, no logic. With though wouldn't be logical. Tire. This thanksgiving. It's clear I've got a lot to be thankful for although writing this poem was quite the chore. That's on me. Packers fucking stink. And that is no lie. But on the bright side today, we all get to smash mashed potatoes and pumpkin pie. Oh, I've been waiting for this meal for the past several weeks. But I'm afraid I'm going to need to wear a diaper to prevent any leaks. Spending the rest of the week in Beantown and not here with the boys and for that. I'd like to thank our leader. Under who I'm employed. Punishment? I'd also like to give thanks for being in good health. Hopefully, I stay that way while heading back east to the Commonwealth this holiday season be thankful for what you have and avoid all the crap. And if your family sucks this year say fuck it, go AWOL and take a nap could Zoe Joyce. It's thanksgiving one of the best days of the year, nothing, but NFL games and copious amounts of ice, cold beer, keep it in perspective that you've got things pretty good and others. Don't have such good luck. After all you could be a Packers fan and be stuck with Mike McCarthy that incompetent fat. He didn't enjoy. Nerve that got quite a shot there McCarthy. A all the Packers fans attorney on that guy. Oh, yeah. It's not just you know, I've wanted him gone for four years. You think Aaron Rodgers is turned off? Yeah. I don't think Rogers is liked him for a while now. But he's just he's too much of a standup guy to bury them to the media. Hopefully that'll change. Matching he gets up there. We all saw. I did pretty good. Schemes probably just a little bit better on cyber n- field. There. His stats are pretty good this year nine thousand nine hundred nineteen touchdowns. One interception. Aaron rodgers. Yeah. Hundred and three rating. They are four five and one there's people talking about how they should have paid him one hundred mil like there's people trolling on the internet absurd. Absurd. He's doing some really cool too. By the way, re tweet for good his the. Yeah. State farms donate mill if you do it nice. Yeah. He's doing cool shit right now gays Butte, strong that was the community college. He went to. Okay. So Butte, Montana, also where evil knievel code Anderson and the guy who killed some water from. So that's the one I saw Butte trunk thing. I was like. Wait a minute. And then I listen, I was like, oh that must be county up there. But it's a college. I think it's a county too. But that's the community college. He went to before Cal good shit riders wouldn't expect anything else. Here's a guy from Boston. A lot of things said about him on a regular basis. Can't wait to hear what he has to say in a rhythmic, poem fashion. The thing. You bet Boston Connor this poem titled the night before thanksgiving by Charles Chester Campbell. Okay. So you're saying this yesterday. Yeah. Yesterday, this is yesterday. Okay. It's my poetry name on the night before three poetry Charles Chester Campbell. Informally known as the three CS Chucky cheese Campbell. So help say Saana, Stephen son of Stephen here, we go on the night before thanksgiving with Indiana winter gloomy the pub was bright as ever lots of booze was looming. Oh dressed to the nines. We got ready to roll thanksgiving tomorrow. Then the North Pole. Oh, yeah. Fox zito. And I opened the pub with the shout. The time was coming to be out in about piano bar was the spot. We would start in broad ripple. It was hard not to blackout harder than my nipple for the night was cold. But our spirits were high knowing tomorrow, we would all split a big pumpkin pie the night continued as redound our beer's Welkom not expecting the round of shots. I ordered Vegas bomb. One after another Zina's mom was. Today, Nick, one after another we drank to worry out in the red bull. But we needed a little food to get back into our skull downtown indie. We went FOX called an Uber with a flick kilroy's on Meridian we all wanted some breadstick. Dan, went the food and more veers as well. We were all heading for darkness, the waitress could tell Zito got us in a car, and on our way, home we needed anyways. More vitamins to the dome back to the pub pumped for the morning to say, the least ready for thanksgiving. Tomorrow, a true McAfee feast. Oh, now, here's my PCP, which is similar to the PS in the letter community p p postpone p. Okay. The postpone. It's the spec the PP. Thank you. Has a personal protector on a punt to you ok p or sorry Charles Chester Campbell's. PP course post poll be thankful for football. I am for Bill and Tom not to mention a black Friday sale at store dot Pat McAfee, show dot com. Your mom made it through their twice also. She doesn't she makes a lot of things twice. Oh, that's my fault. All right. It from me. I you guys did a great job there by the homework for the boys excited for that. It's a Turkey day. Thanks to the listeners of the year. Allowing us weekly to penetrate your ears is every show heater. Not quite but yene stick with us like white on rice. Nice. We had a couple of moments that had us like. Wow. Like when Dan Patrick said his life back, then is like our life. Nah. That was wild. It was real. Well, it was really wild moment. Saying that I was getting real children. I was like Saddam be like you. I'm perfect. We are true family in a couple of interesting spots with moments of pure stupidity and brilliance like Zito's thoughts. Boston Connors joined the team. He's funny. And he's loud also welcomed gator. I'm sure his dad's really. I'm lucky to be surrounded by such a great squad. Their abilities to do it. All I truly applaud clap for. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. When we started blogging there for a little bit for we had to redo. I was really impressed, by the way, you guys did that you guys do a lot of really good stuff. Thanks, buddy. I plot. That was me. And it was the only word the Rams squad. To everybody listening. We're in this together. In like, the mighty Mighty Ducks. We fly in any weather. So I hope your Turkey is great in the drinks are flowing. Well, what were we doing next year? You ask only time will tell let's continue to enjoy each other's company and hang like, a canopy the McAfee, mafia. I'm truly lucky to be a part of this family chairs thanksgiving. We thank you also so much. Thank you, all so so much and with that we'd like to send it over to DJ, Frankie Maroteaux while the ones in to this thanksgiving with some thanksgiving heaters to hold you over your hangover and make it into black Friday. I son. He made the team. I did they say. It's all. Is mad. This is fanny business, and it's just what family families. Oh, family family's diet. Quick sweet like a photo. I mean, he said it. Christmas. Can't be right. Always said thanksgiving can't be somebody. Please stay grading facing. Thanksgiving don't have a lot of us. Does not stand. Jesus gets along with Christmas. Look off any. This fats in the way. Shot lattes and in the narrow in the North Island. Because of Jesus. Trying to go southern fees. They're like now. Zero just like Jesus classic off my lawn. Hey, they don't fuck around. That is an angry, you know, sitting daddy chicken here. Adam gear sixty. Thanksgiving. Yeah. Due to of you like Fawzi Senate. He said I kind of miss what's going on. But whatever you like on thanksgiving. That last second thing walking studio, you can eat whatever you like. Yeah. Kind of you can't impeach. Set your she'll there your house. His song. Also people drink. Models. Yeah. Thanksgiving thanksgiving song foxing low on FOX hills. Good. Who would've known TI would make it thanksgiving? So. For TI. In combining. By Friday song collard green all their y'all. Very call. All say same. That's also the weekend. Throughout business centres stored up. No pain. Vein might break. Capi slacked. Rack up. Being hang he's at. Thanksgiving. Franci freaking slopping my leak is Patrick buzz. News day, no months. No, months moles. Crescent? Thank you. Probably dance. Play my favorite. Yes. The thanksgiving. Yeah. I think we'll just there are thanksgiving. There are. There are. Look a little bit. Yeah. There's a deeper meaning in their everybody thinks these are shallow songs. I know. This is the deep end of the pool. Lifeguard must be on duty all meddle. Thanksgiving. Win. Not so bad. It's not so bad. Thanksgiving. It was it was the next course. We were referencing his not so bet. Yes, we got next song. It's not even. It's. That's not an old people's in that. This next song. I'm happy. We did that we figured that out Eminem the thanksgiving. So. Thank you. You want us to go back. Do love that song. Are we all do? Thank you. But it worked out. But it worked out. Workout. Working out, Mr. workout you just now big deal. It was now. It was now. There's a trip the next day. Maybe this work. This is working. I can't get a lunch a meal. To. Custody every holiday. Thanks giving this year. Yeah. What he's saying? Ex- turkeys. Thank you next. He said, but like what's her face? Are you on? I think he was referencing that. So it is definitely a thanksgiving. What was? And. This is like when you take a break from eating and then you come back a half hour later start eating skin. Basically, it's hard. Yes. Thanks giving. Please tell me you're going to end it with what I think you're gonna do it. I just thought only really one option. I don't know if it's going to be on Spotify. It is his it. Exactly outside of this song. Boy, I really want to get one. Figured out this one mashed potatoes, you just days yelled method. Yeah. Thanksgiving software, this I. I am. Oh. This is the ultimate thanksgiving. Video play right now. People are scared to make song because it sounds so good. Well, we just found a bunch of other thanksgiving song. Right. There's this. Great. The music video to this one. Incredible the music video this evening, pretty hard. Oh. Video taught. Oh my God. It's awesome. Dry. Threes potatoes. Screens multiple version. Tickets. Oh. Church. Potatoes are made us potatoes made us grieve. Grease grease. All right. That's good. I'm ready to go. Remember if you're going to get the trip to fan shout out to all those bangers by those. I didn't know that. There's that many thanksgiving guys poem should all be turned into beats and made songs as well. We're just adding thanksgiving might have the most songs about time. We just haven't. We haven't looked hard enough. We haven't gone into deepen taught. But did you do that for yourself? Absolutely. We got you started finish. Okay did Turkey. They say one thing comes in. 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So this thanksgiving, I think from all of us, I can say this. I am truly grateful for all of you have an incredible day. Tweet us hashtag N gang. Hashtag gang game. Show us your food lineup. We wanna see it. Also makes you take care of that bet the two hundred fifty dollars bet with my bookie Tommy on they're giving away the company also seeking tickets and also this bed that they're giving away for two hundred twenty five dollars off. We appreciate you all so much have an incredible day. Type Schmidt hit the music. Crazed potatoes tomatoes, lamb Rams hall, chicken tuck. Tuck. Creased potatoes lamps. Prince potatoes. Please. Potatoes. Potatoes. The tickets. Craze potatoes tomatoes craze potatoes tomatoes, crease pertains creams pertains. Crease paint. Threes tickets. Crease potatoes invade us. Potatoes. Craze potatoes. Tickets. Potatoes. Potato tickets. Craze potatoes tomatoes pain craze, potatoes tomatoes pain craze, pertains craves pertains. Crease potatoes chicken. Tickets tickets.