20 Episode results for "Sarah Fox"

TechStuff Classic: The Firefox Story

TechStuff

33:47 min | 1 year ago

TechStuff Classic: The Firefox Story

"You at Lexus. Their greatest curiosity is you because the most amazing machines aren't inspired by machines. They're inspired by. I people that's why Alexis asks different questions. Better questions more human questions like can you see with your ears. There's and the answers are as inspiring as you are which may leave you with one question. What amazing ideas will you inspire next? Discover the answers answers at Lexus dot com slash curiosity. Welcome to text up a production of iheartradio's how stuff works. Hey there in welcome to text up. I'm your host Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with iheartradio and love all things tech and it's time for another classic episode of Tech Stuff this episode originally originally published on December twelve two thousand twelve twelve twelve twelve. So what did we cover well. It's the Fire Fox story. Yup The web browser known as Fire Fox. Now Greg this is not a beginning middle and end story because fire Fox continued well after two thousand twelve but I thought you might like to hear about the history of the browser. So let's listen to this classic episode. Yeah Yeah so you know There's this Guy Tim Burners Lee works overturn like feeling hurt. His name Dude came up with neat way of displaying information using an network connections which would eventually blossom into the beautiful flower? We know as the World Wide Web. We probably don't call it that so frequently anymore. I love you if you read the stuff from the The early nineties worldwide web and information superhighway with that they seem to be required in every recent news story. Yeah well we've started a little loopy here but yeah it's it's clear and we haven't. We haven't mentioned it in quite some time but We have mentioned on multiple multiple occasions that the Internet is basically A medium of communication between computers. It's a network of networks Your computer hooks up to to the Internet and you can send information in a number of different ways A lot of them are are passe. Now or less used and others I mean people like like a gopher or using transmission protocols like Gopher and waste People just don't do that very much use that is less than it used to be so guys meal is certainly used quite a bit and still quite a few people are using file. Transfer Protocol sure. The different instant messenger protocols they they none of these are the worldwide Web The World Wide Web basically puts a very public pretty face on it in some cases less than pretty especially if you don't like crawling graphics and Midi files now but this is the old you know. This is the the user friendly Jersian of what the Internet has offered for a a lot of people they thought the worldwide web and Internet were synonymous. Not really the case. But we wanted to talk about a particular browser and a company an organization that That helped bring this browser about and how it kind of became a power player. Actually it was the power player for a while or ancestor of it was and then faded to obscurity rose from the ashes. We'll get into that so we're talking about fire Fox in general but to to understand fire Fox and the story behind Fire Fox. You actually have to go back quite a ways well before there was ever any sort of Fire Fox web browser so all all the way back to nineteen ninety two an in ninety two. We're talking the earliest days the web at this point and it seems kinda crazy. I mean. We're recording this in twenty twelve. So that's so you know just twenty years but a fellow by the name of Mark in recent. Yep basically this. This was a college project. He and Eric Beena or Bina shrouds. As last name yet they began to work on a browser for windows on UNIX computers and This was something they they decided to start working on this after being shown the The the work that Tim Burners Lee had been doing over at sern they said. Wow you know we should start creating a browser that could act access this sort of stuff and so they worked together and they created something they called Mosaic uh-huh which was One of the earliest web browsers. Yeah and it really. It's sort of helped popularize the worldwide web for a lot of people For a couple of reasons one it was it was it was reasonably nice. To look at it was easy to use but it was also free Yep Because it was well again a college college project so it was one of those things that was just offered now he kind of had to know where to find it You kind of had to know. have an idea what the World Wide Web was. And at that point it was Sort of a hobbyist thing You know I I used when I used a bit net back in the days immediately preceding preceding that I was using basically email using chat but I really had no idea what the web was and I started doing some reading around around that time time and said Oh this looks kind of interesting and You know I I didn't have a A Web client for my Amiga at the time But I I started using MACs around that time and found out that there was a version of mosaic available for which I actually purchased with a book Told you how to use the darn thing and it came on a floppy floppy disk until I loaded mosaic from From from that and got started on the web yeah Some interesting connections we should. We should talk about. I mean you're going to find out that. There are a lot of connections to various web browsers out there just coming from mosaic. One of the earliest and to me really interesting. Ones that in Nineteen ninety-four a company called else spyglass INC licensed The Mosaic Browser. Yeah and they began to develop its own code base based on mosaic. Take and then. They licensed that code base to Microsoft. And that would become part of what would eventually be Internet explorer so mosaic and Internet explorer share some Some code when you go way way back and it's You know that's to me. That's a very interesting thing especially when you look later on time line of the the the evolution of browsers out there on the market. Yeah Yeah now Of course that that's less of a direct lineage. Then what Andriessen and company would do when they decided to go ahead and make some money off of this thing which is the founding of the company Netscape. Yeah I it was called Mosaic Communications but they renamed it before too long to netscape escape. Communications they being mark Andriessen. Jim Clark This was a nineteen ninety-four so same year that SPYGLASS INC is licensing mosaic itself And they come up with the browser netscape and this was a pay for browser. You would buy the browser. I bought a copy off the shelf off shrink wrapped copy of netscape too and it became communicator. Actually became quite popular and there were eight. I'm sorry navigator. Yeah there are a lot of lot of do you WANNA go back. No no no okay. We'll just go then all right. Hey guess what guys. Sometimes we go back anyway Netscape was that is very rare. Though I remember I remember the the little window and the right upper right part of the screen which you know if you've used the web for awhile you remember that the little thing that would tell you that it's actually working. Yeah the thing from left to right in the the navigation bar the address Bar But yeah back in netscape navigator navigator days. They had an old ship's wheel was so nice. We call at the helm anyway. The the The browser we can popular alert. It kind of Well it introduced and a concept called extensions which must be more familiar with these days extensions extend the features of a browser. You buy a leg. You install some new code that gives it some added functionality on this gave websites or people who were developing websites the ability to include stuff that wasn't natively supported by html because the browsers able able to interpret the new code and and Render it properly on the screen so that you're getting the experience that the people wanted to have the people being the web developers and and Around that time the early nineties netscape was doing really well in fact it might have had a market share as high as eighty percent of the browser market at that time in. That's pretty remarkable considering that it was a pay for browser. Yeah yeah at that point Netscape was was writing very high in the market they were competing with Online service providers like AOL and compuserve But the the web basically was was Netscape's the lose and boy nineteen ninety-five. Yeah beginning of the end. Well yes kate. Now see when you're talking about the the the possibility of paying you know twenty thirty dollars for your web browser versus a competitor that comes along and offers one for free yeah that's freely downloadable notable and has the muscle of somebody really big behind it like I don't know Microsoft like Steve Bomber the Big Guy the ninety five Microsoft launches windows ninety five and that has the web browser that's included with windows. Ninety five is Internet explorer now remember Internet explorer or was built partially upon that code base from mosaic. And it was as Christmas saying free of charge. You could download it freely and use it yourself so you didn't have have to buy a copy of a browser and it even came with windows ninety five token even have to bother with right if you if you bought a new computer that you had Internet explorer floor built right in there in fact that ended up causing some problems There were some issues about Internet explorer being tied so tightly into the The operating system experience windows that it Brought up some antitrust issues for Microsoft Allied. But that's really more of a Internet explorer Moore story not so much a fire Fox story so bright. Let's go back over to what's going on It took some time but Internet explorer. Even though it was free I mean we did not immediately take over like it wasn't it wasn't an overnight now turnaround it took about four generations of Internet explorer for it to catch up to netscape. Meanwhile Netscape Branched out they did more than just Use netscape navigator. They also wanted to create an entire suite of tools that you would use for email and for Using that in some of the other stuff and they they built a larger suite so you had an option you could go with netscape navigator if you just wanted to use the web or sweet. They called netscape communicator. which had the greater functionality? Unfortunately in in doing this they gradually and this is common You know happened. In to Microsoft and many many others The code gradually gradually became more bloated more resource intensive if you will and made load times slower. Made things more difficult so now you have a you know a heavyweight Internet heavyweight and netscape going against The the net newbie Microsoft but Microsoft Microsoft has the leaner more integrated browser in this case. Yes and again free so yeah. By that fourth generation of Internet explorer we started to see see things switch around to the point where it was It was clear that Internet explorer was going to run away with it. So in nineteen ninety. Eight Netscape communications made a big decision. They decided that they would offer. Netscape the netscape browser for free. Yes and that they would freely Offer up the the The source code so that it would become an open source project so in other words you could be a developer and go in and you could tweak netscape and have your own version of netscape and under the right. You know you had to follow certain rules but you could do that The community very quickly became huge and There was a new name for this project. It was called the Mozilla project project. Yes now I understand that. The name for Mozilla Came from it's sort of a fudged fudged Portmanteau which is a combination of words for mosaic killer or mosaic Killa. Now of course that took on the form of of Dinosaur because it makes people the name Zillow makes people think of Godzilla right So they didn't want copyright infringement so Mozilla Dinosaur Dennis or monster lizard giant thing is that red instead of green and really bears no resemblance to To Godzilla although the more like like a tyrannosaurus or maybe a velociraptor yes now there have also been multiple incarnations of the design for the creek but Yeah so it looks nothing like a fire Fox the muzzle into that right. The most project launches in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight but it would not be until two thousand and two before they released Mozilla one one point Oh and this was a browser that included email client functionality among other features but at that point Internet explorer was dominant in the market. It had a ninety percent market share. So we're talking about a time where we went from Ninety four or so where that scape had about eighty percent market share right to two thousand and two where I now has ninety percent of the market share so this is a good thing to point out things. Things change really yeah. Market share can change dramatically from one From one decade to the next or even just the span of a few years The reason why that's important to remember is that we always talk about market share as if it's the most important thing in the world in some cases like talk about and smartphone adoption. Yeah whatever But it it's true that these things could change dramatically and someone who's on top and you would think Oh oh this guy's going to dominate the market forever could very easily become an also ran in just a few years. Chris and I will have more to say about fire Fox in just a moment but first let's take a quick break. Hey guys let's talk about sleep. Listen to these studies from Harvard. Harvard and Johns Hopkins Chronic sleep deprivation has been shown to lead to depression diabetes obesity and cardiovascular disease we need I need eight hours of sleep. I know this all too well. As recently I had a real issue trying to get to sleep and stay asleep. I kept waking up pretty much every two hours. I wasn't comfortable. I was feeling a lot of anxiety and it just started to compound throughout the night and the next day was a real real trial for me and one of sleeps. Biggest problems is temperature. It's tough to get good sleep if you're too hot so I want to tell you about the hod by eight sleep. The pod by eight sleep is a high tech bed designed specifically to help you achieve optimal sleep fitness. It was developed by a leading sleep researchers after trekking forty three million hours of sleep. A combines dynamic temperature regulation and sleep tracking to enhance your arrest and recovery it learns your sleep habits and adjusts the temperature automatically that means if you like the bed cool your partner likes the bed. Warm warm will now. You can have both at the same time in a crazy comfortable bet sleep longer and deeper so you wake up refreshed and ready to take on the world old. Try The POD for one hundred nights and if you don't love it will refund your purchase. A range of free pick-up they already sold out of their first two batches so they're going fast for a limited time. Get One hundred fifty dollars off your purchase when you go to sleep dot com slash tech. That's E. I g.. HT SLEEP DOT com slash tech eight sleep dot com slash tech people talk about the fill in the blank here killer and you know those long term listeners will remember that I brought this up before. Drives me crazy when people talk about the the fill in the blank length killer because in just a few years they'll be talking about whatever that was killer right and and in some cases they don't kill so much as carve Out A niche market. And and go for it. I mean You know in this case Internet explorer would have been the netscape killer and in in some cases they did but Mozilla would come back and carve out its own space and then chrome came along years later and not. It's sort of what's going on right now. At the time save as it ever was he was over was so go ahead. I was just GonNa say some community remember of Mozilla. What's interesting is the MISSOULA project? You've got the Mozilla Browser. You still have people in the community. Who Don't necessarily think that the way that the Mozilla celebrate was developing is the right way to go and that's the beauty of having an open source community is that you don't there's not necessarily just one path that you can take? You can have multiple paths to try and create the best browser experience possible. Some of those community members decided that there were there were some issues they had with Mozilla. One of them was that they felt that it was suffering from feature creep. which is the same thing we were talking about with a scary man? Yeah he turns into like Dracula then Mummy and the creature from the Black Lagoon. I've been watching too much supernatural lately. I've watched an episode last night. That was about that anyway. No the idea that that they were again Mozilla was starting to become in their mind. Bloated Way Netscape head and they did not really think That was This topic they should pursue. They thought that perhaps they should take the code. Makes something else out of it so. This group created a browser that they he called Phoenix as in rising from the ashes. Right now there are legendary bird that yeah. That's the one that was featured in heavily in the documentary series Harry Potter the the but it is fitting in as a fitting image for this browser. which at one time had been netscape right so so? Phoenix rises from the ashes. But also tends to fall again because it turns out someone else has the name Phoenix. So they can't really use it so they renamed it firebird. That caused the problem because there was another organization that used the word firebird about that distributed software so that was an issue they ended up thinking. Okay okay okay. We'll name it something else. We'll call it fire Fox L. Fire Fox has the benefit here of going with The fire part at the beginning But adds another very cool animal image in there now. A Fire Fox isn't actually Fox. It is in fact a red panda which in my opinion are really animals. But you know And actually recently recently the Mozilla Foundation has sponsored The well being of a couple of red pandas in the KNOXVILLE Tennessee Zoo They even had a Webcam cam up. which had the little critters running around and playing and stopping and sleeping would wish they always seem to be doing right as I tuned in? No look there's and going on settling down for a nap. In two thousand three was win. Mozilla created the Mozilla Foundation which is an independent nonprofit organization. It's mainly meant to manage edged the daily operations of the Mozilla project. And we didn't really touch on this. But the remnants of Netscape were purchased by America Online yes so. AOL bought Netscape Mutt. The MOZILLA foundation has the ability to To go off and do their own thing here so so they have yeah. Yeah so. Two thousand four was wood-fire Fox. One Point Zero was released and it became a very popular browser very quickly. In less than a year they had over one hundred million downloads. So Fire Fox was quickly viewed as the the the alternative to Internet explorer. I could hear all the opera fans out there screaming at me but the popular the popular view. was that Fire Fox. If if you didn't want to use Internet explorer you should use fire Fox. Yeah now I had actually been using opera up until that point right as I specifically remember a friend of mind going. Hey you know I know you like opera but you really should try this fire Fox out and I was Kinda skeptical because I was one of the people who was cranky netscape for getting so darned bloated. Yeah Yeah I tried netscape communicator. For a long time and it just drove me crazy. I didn't like Internet explorer for Mac very much so yeah once once I tried it I got unhooked. And it is operatives to give you some reference two thousand four that's around the same time that Companies like my space and facebook are starting to to make a name for themselves of course at that point facebook is strictly a college only experience right But yeah that's that gives you an idea of what's going on. Around that time it would be two years before before version. Two point zero of firefox came out they would update. They made lots of frequent updates to the fire Fox browser but they were all very the incremental without major changes to the code point releases. Yeah so it wasn't until two years after it debuted before two point came out and it was another two two years when version three point came out. Says Two Thousand Eight The reason why I'm bringing this up is it'll be interesting when we get to talk about. What version is currently held in the wild right now as of the recording? This podcast right but But yeah two thousand. Eight was with version. Three point zero was released and fire. Fox Hit tweet percent of the market share no Like to bring this up because the Mozilla Foundation does a lot more than just Then just fire. Fox and pandas and pandas. Red Pandas. Mr So cute They also had split off some of the other code that was part of communicator. For example thunderbird which is your email client right Is is sort of the the version that Tom they used to be the mail client and there was a unified Basically the the derivative of communicator itself the suite which was called sea monkeys And they they released early early versions of that Thunderbird one point came out on December. Seventh two thousand four and Monkey one point. Oh came out on January. Thirty two thousand seven six now. Both of these are probably not as in as much in the public eye thunderbird more so see monkey certainly not as much ask as either one of those two But they still do work on those projects and over time I just wanted to make sure that we mentioned them. But overtime Mozilla has brought thunderbird underboard up to the same basically the same version system that Fire Foxes on right. We have a little bit more to say about Fire Fox but before we get there we're GONNA we'll take another quick break to thank our sponsor problems. It's human nature to hate problems but why is is that after all problems inspire us to mend things. Bend things make things better. That's why so many people work with IBM on everything from city. Traffic to ocean plastic new schools to new energy flight delays to food safety. SMART LOVES PROBLEMS IBM. Let's put smart to work visit. IBM DOT COM slash smart to learn more. If it drives flies you can learn all about it on car stuff with with me your host Scott. 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You can place your order online and grab what you need today at more than five thousand six hundred autozone locations. That's right Scott and that's great news because for emergencies like when your car's battery fails timing. Is Everything luckily you can pick a new one up same day at autozone with their free in store door pickup. If you have a job that can wait until tomorrow. autozone offers free next day. Delivery on orders over thirty five dollars ended autozone. Free next. Delivery is available in over one hundred thousand parts like parts Sir brake jobs down to wiper. Blades visit autozone DOT com today to start your job fast getting zone autozone. Well two thousand eleven we have fire Fox version. Four point zero release. I remember that was a big deal that came out and then So in two thousand eleven and today This being the end of November. Two thousand twelve would record this They got busy. So and this is Google's fault every couple of years we're seeing a new version of firefighter. New a new version number two to two to three three to four. So you would expect maybe the next version. Five point zero of Fire Fox. Probably come out in two thousand thirteen or so not the case The fire here Fox operating are of Nabis Browser. We'll get to the operating system and the second is currently at version seventeen as other acquaintances. This podcast so between two thousand eleven and November two thousand twelve. We went from version. Four all the way up to seventeen and actually versions eighteen and nineteen are both in Alpha testing right now that that is correct. And if you're interested you can download those versions even a nightly build if he wants. Your mileage may vary day by day. These browsers search changing and Some of them may not be what we like to call. Stable shows shows the massive amounts of of change that have come out over the last year. Yep Now now what influence that it was google with the chrome browser which came out and again From Google has a lot of resources that it can That it can give to the Google chrome project which itself is a derivative of chromium But Google chrome came out and started updating very very quickly and the folks at the Mozilla Foundation nations realized that in terms of new features being added chromos outdoing Mozilla quite rapidly so they decided to put themselves on on a rapid release cycle cycle to which frustrated a lot of people because Fire Fox more so than chrome has been the standard by which companies operate Internet explorer or fire. Sarah Fox Not Safari not not opera. Not Not Chrome and So they've they've been on not as on a scale that's not as fast as chrome but they did update started making updates more quickly and much more quickly than they used to be and now other on sort of a cycle where they're releasing a couple. Maybe three updates a year. Yeah it's the little free dramatic yet to go from four to seventeen. I have thirteen major releases within the span of a year and a half really seemed to be on a on a more level scheduled Albania had played catch up for quite some time In October Fifth Two thousand twelve they released the fire. Fox Build. That will that Can Be used in the windows. Eight user interface that tiled interface that was formerly called Metro So that that came out toward the end of two thousand twelve also they he They're working on smartphone operating system. Yes that's kind of an interesting thing to build a an Os for For phones to really get into that market I mean where are you talking about a market. That's mainly being fought By Google and apple with windows trying to make a name for itself as well at that same time and then other players like blackberry are trying to regroup and sound like Symbian are almost gone now and it's interesting too because Like what Google is doing with its operating system chrome Os Fire Fox is also leaning heavily on web standards standards for its for its programming. So we're talking about html five the the newly proposed but not yet finalized is version of of the hypertext markup language and a lot of the Mozilla specific. API is an application programming interfaces basically these are plug in play Pieces of code that people can use to make them compatible enter compatible Mozilla is basically saying. Hey look where open source or free and you know we want to see if we can make inroads on people's smartphones and people can use a fire Fox simulator right now We can actually give it a try. Actually the name for the simulator. RTD TO BE TO G. A B Two g by the way means BOOT to Gecko. Yes yes which was. The original name Gecko being the web interface that That were engine that Fire Fox built on but yeah they. They are primarily web centric so we're operating R. Two D. two come from and have no idea probably just made up. It's weird because I would think those were not the enjoyed that was looking for entirely anyway. Yeah so that brings us up to date with what's going on with Fire Fox It's a it's it's you know I I've used fire Fox quite a bit in the past And it was for a very long time. It was my browser of choice. It's still my browser of choice. Mine is chrome and and that wraps up this classic episode of Tech Stuff about fire. Fox Hope you guys enjoyed if you have any suggestions for future episodes of tech stuff you can send me an email. The addresses addresses tech stuff. At how stuff works dot com or you can drop me a line on facebook or twitter handle at both is tech stuff H. S. W.. 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Behind some of history's ultimate fighters season one tackles Theodore Roosevelt. Who went head to head with seemingly unbeatable foes corruption time and death itself listening? Subscribe on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Fox L. Fire Fox Mosaic Communications Fox Mozilla Mozilla Foundation Microsoft iheartradio Lexus mark Andriessen facebook Tim Burners Lee Sarah Fox SPYGLASS INC apple America Online
Episode 54  Dont Get Fooled Again

Invest With Clarity

27:48 min | 4 months ago

Episode 54 Dont Get Fooled Again

"Welcome to the invest with clarity podcast where you will learn how success an investing as in life is the result of absolute clarity. Mark, Pearson of Nexus in Minneapolis Minnesota shares his passion for portfolio, management and commitment to transparency and communication to allow investors to fully understand what they own, and why, bringing them to clarity in their investments, and now here are your co host, Manpower and and Mark Pearson. Hello, and welcome to another invest with clarity podcast with Marc, Pearson today's title is won't get fooled again. And mark and I were joking. It'd be super cool to be able to play a you know just a snippet from the song, but we'd get sued and I also said of course. I volunteered to sing it, and I was squashed very quickly a by Mark Pearson because he didn't want to hurt anybody's eardrum so mark Let's talk about not getting fooled again. Again. Man Yes, excellent. Well glad to be with you. Of course as usual we won't get. We won't get fooled. Again is the title of our latest blog and does that put together by the Nips Research Team, which will opine on the day in the whole gist if you will of it is, let's not get fooled again. People are getting fooled continually, because they don't have a sound process for making investment decisions, and so they rely on turning on the business news. To hear the latest greatest snippets from somebody that ends up being wrong and I was thinking this morning before I came on the on the podcast today I. Want you to think about this is what investors do. Matt think about how many different experts come on CNBC Fox business. All the periodicals money magazine Kiplinger. Wall Street Journal whatever it may be, but in particular on TV, their job is the fill airtime and bringing guests right, and so these guys come in, and they give they oh, pine on their own opinions about things which are oftentimes opinions and not fact. And you as the investors start soaking it in, and you begin to formulate your own opinion. You agree with some of the things that someone says you don't agree with some of the things someone says, and whether you agree or don't agree you. Make the decision to do it without really having all the facts, the backup the decision that you're making now. I want you to think about something firm minute. Let's imagine map for a minute that. You are a business owner. And by the way, investors are business owners, aren't they? Whose wife said that and your business owners sitting conference from around the conference from table? And I want to apologize upfront I'm feeling a little Sassy today. Actually I want to apologize upfront. If our sound to commonsensical, because sometimes common sense is uncommon, and sometimes people look commonsense and say that's the dumbest thing they've ever heard, but it's still common sense you know. My Dad wants told me Yeah. I read something on their Lewis Squirrel completely here for a second What's the one thing that your father because father's Day is coming right? And one of the questions that came up was what's the one thing your father taught with the one biggest thing your father taught you and I was thinking about that in my remember my dad, telling me high school. That common sense is uncommon. Man. Was He actually? Not only was healing accurate. He was scarily so scary accurate. It's scary to see how lack of. Common Sense is out there, and we could just talk about the vast amount of subjects going on in our world today to get that. Let alone every day in our day to day activities so anyway back to the. Story at Hand Magin Your Business Owner And you're sitting at the conference from table with all the leaders of your company, and generally when you're sitting down with your management team in a company, you've got what two three four five six. You Right? Helping, you make business decisions. To get you where you WANNA go. Unfortunately we have investors who listen to ten twenty thirty different opinions. And try to make decisions about what to do, and the end up getting confused the end up lacking clarity the end up, not knowing what to do, and they're guessing at the decisions that they're making and the point of won't get fooled. Again is enough of listening to five ten fifteen twenty people. Enough a turn on the TV. Listen to someone opine about something they think is right. I love the guys a come on who particularly during March and April when I was buying like a Banshee by the way, and they are all saying listening is going to go down for I won't mention their names, but some big names have been thrown around. This thing's going to get lower. This thing's going to go lower. And they got into got stuck into the vast vacuum of prognosticating postulating speculate, stop prognosticating posh lean. Speculating investing is a simple process investing great businesses. Businesses over time, and so our crack research team put together a bunch of information, basically spelling outlook full me wants shame on you. Fool me twice on me. How many times are we GONNA? Sit In listening to people prognosticate about stuff only to find out what's wrong and I get Kinda sick and tired of this whole idea of why people come on and say well. The market's GonNa have a three percents correction. We're going to test the bottoms Yada Yada Yada Yada what happens after you do that. No one ever talks about the aftermath all right, sorry. I want to jump in there too, because I don't think a lot of listeners truly understand this that the majority of the people who aren't host or have their own shows paying a lot of money to be on there to express their opinion I. It's not even that they're really that amazing. Some of these people write huge checks to get on CNBC and micro Sarah Fox business, and all of that sort of stuff. Really, who are these people? Anyway? Brother right well, right? What's credibility I mean? What what is credibility mean? What what? What does it mean? I LOOK! Flat out in our clients. This year are having a phenomenal year. Our clients read a phenomenal year last year. Short term performance is no guarantee of future performance, and if I, if I posted the returns that we've had over the last couple of years. People would throw their money at APSIS to have. It managed because they think I'm a genius. I'm not really a genius. I stick to a process, and the process gives me the confidence to to stick with it because it's time tested, and you know at the end of the day as funny. I was on the phone with a Sony Fidelity yesterday. A service REP at fidelity are working on something for a client and. This conversation when she was boy. Bet You're really busy lately, I, said actually no. I haven't gotten any. We gotten. Any phone calls from clients about the volatility and she's like you're kidding I, said no, because we've taught our clients about the investment process and investing with clarity she goes. That's incredible I, said well it. People need to know what they want and why the own it and I love volatility I said we need to have volatility be successful investors and she says this. This she works for an she's come serves, or she's not an adviser. She's not A. This is not a a a knock at all against Delhi. This is this is an investment opinion that a lot of investors have a I'm getting older and I don't like volatility at all anymore. I get too nervous and worried about the volatility, and so first of all. You sound super young on the phone. Joe's on arm old and she goes. You know I'm just over forty went. You Ain't old. Yeah, she's not old. You're not old and. I said the reason why you don't like. Volatility is because you don't know what you own why you own it. You don't know the businesses you. And people focus more. It goes back to this idea mad that people invest in the stock market not in businesses, but that's not the case you invest in businesses. In the stock market is nothing more than the greatest tool ever created the bringing buyers or sellers of businesses together. And the whole concept, and they destroy the whole concept. The won't get fooled again is if you stick to the investment, philosophy and strategy naps stick to your by disciplined discipline when these people get on start tooting their horns about how brilliant they are, you won't get fooled again. Shame on me if I listened to the same stuff over and over again. Okay I'm done. Okay, let's let's let's get back to the crack research team. So you've got this new blog coming out. won't get fooled again. What what sort? Sort of stuff that the research team come about I know it's pretty deep. You know if they want to read it. They can read it, but let's talk about that. Brother Yeah, a couple of things first of all according to this document here we have. We've seen three hundred eighty billion of assets as a win. This is written recently three eighty billion of assets, leaving ETF's slash funds and going to cash over the last thirteen weeks. So this is June. Let's just say thirteen three months right. April may June. March April may pick a three month period. You WanNa pick. It doesn't matter. The S&P got down over thirty percent thirty five percent year to date. It's now down about three percent, so that thirty five percent move is moved thirty two percentage points roughly give or take while three hundred, eighty, billion in cash, and what my team goes on sale at this simply proves our thesis as we have grown our assets under management over the last three months because we are able to. To make rational logical changes in the midst of the worst of the crisis and do sounds up. Invest Decision Making I WANNA. Give you a couple of examples of some companies that we bought Because this is you know when we make an investment, we make it term right, Matt. We know what's GonNa happen the next two three four five months now. We did think we'd see a v-shaped recovery. We put that one of our last podcasts. were, not in the business predicting. We were right to pat ourselves in the back. Quite frankly, if you're a long term investor, you don't want stocks to rebound this quickly. You want time to be able to put clients cheaper prices. You don't WanNa, see it skyrocket if you're not selling it for the next five ten fifteen years right, and that's a logical for a lot of investors. The investors look at their portfolio Oh goody goody goody. It's going up who cares because? You're not selling it anyways, so to make yourself feel emotionally great scratch. That edge is bad. It's bad investment Karma for you don't do it. You don't make a red cent until you sell it so I would much rather see stocks move up slower so i. have an opportunity to put more people's assets in lower prices, but in March during this pullback square, which of course, many people are familiar with square now right square started the year I think around I. WanNa say sixty to sixty three dollars a share and it went up to like I say like ninety two ninety three something like that right, and during the financial crisis. This thing taint. Rocket ship right because I started like sixty four went to eight looks like eighty, four eighty six summer, Nair bottomed around thirty five. Let's see fifty two week. Low was thirty two thirty three K today. It hit an all time high of one hundred. Today. Three months three months now. This is I. Need to say this for disclosure purposes. Stations Nana recommendation of any stock company. We mentioned here on this podcast. Thirty, five to one hundred well, let's just look at. Let's go back to the clarity in knowing what you own, you own it the reason. I'm postulating here seeing, yell at me, but the reason why the stock went down is because people weren't swiping their cards, because everybody was on lockdown, so things happen, but you know square is day. Own that space brother, so why wouldn't did come back? You know what you own. nyu You on right so right? And we knew covid was a short term event. Right so you know when we make an investment. Investment decision we're looking at the valuation metrics. Not What's going to happen in three months five months six months a year two years down the road. We're looking at three five ten years down the road I mean we bought we bought both visa and mastercard the day they went public. You know it's been over ten years for both of now and actually it's been twenty twenty spent fourteen years I think since. He's one public. He's getting old mastercard I think mastercard went public six crazy, the square in public around seven dollars. A share I believe is what the number was so back in two thousand sixteen. The stock was tradenet eight nine ten dollars. I'm going to give you a really important lesson, people. There's more and more people I guess are tuning into the podcast which I greatly appreciate the listeners attuned, and not everybody's GonNa. Go listen to all fifty five of the previous podcast wherever number of put out there so a lot of times you know. Know reiterate things I've said in the past, but one of the things I talk a lot about man's the idea that in today's investment climate, we have created a monster and we've talked about modern portfolio theory. We've talked about cookie cutter portfolios. We've talked about a race to the bottom and fees. We've talked about how money managers try to convince investors at what they like to managing a portfolio volatility. Tell on the downside risk, and frankly the variables are too many to even do that and I think you have to stay. It's prodding plot. Plotting process at sticking to a blocking and tackling, it's like a you know a motor. You just Kinda does the same thing over and over again right and you know in our parents were growing up. The average holding. Period of a stock was eight years today. It's eight months. And you know people fundamentally while the will the ability to get educated as much greater lot more information. Educate Yourself. I believe people become less successful investors. And the doll study shows that many studies have been done show that investors are not as successful in a lot of it has to do with that. They liked to time getting into investment, not time in the investment timing versus time we've talked about zest now. Zest has some you know alterior things going on with that, but here's a stock that four months ago was fifty cents, and everybody threw it out and said this thing's worthless in this company is going to. To go belly up, and the stock is now three and a half. It's a three hundred percent move in the last three or four months, and it is a great lesson in the idea that while that stock has been horrible performer for three years all sun you wake up one day and is three and a half I used this analogy with annuities before right people are willing to go by variable annuities or index to newest these pain massive fees to buy these. And the reason why they do it is so it. Protects them from the downside protects them from the downside. But the bottom line is they have to hold on Nudie for eight or ten years will if they did the same thing with owning businesses more than likely chances are, they would find that g volatility actually may be helps me. Downside maybe helps me because it allows me to buy more of these great businesses on sale, too I can give you angled on the list discover. Discover went to twenty-five today it sitting at fifty-six right visa, hundred and thirty, two now one hundred, ninety five I mean you can you can. You can just go down the list of companies that are very very good companies right that crashed and are coming back down the list and so Chubb got down the ninety eight dollars. It's back to one hundred and three one. I mean if you own these businesses longer term. Don't allow yourself to get fooled. By the commentary and the information that comes out, so you asked about you asked about research for my team right? Three hundred eighty billion comes out in the last thirteen weeks. Look at the move of a lot of these companies have had what I always love about. That is then people come on, and they start rationalize white. Happen well. This is why they went up. This is why this market went up. The feds are doing this. The feds are doing that I. don't care why they're going up. They're going up and you just missed out on an unbelievable opportunity as a quote, long term investor to sit and cash, and not take advantage of buying great business on sale, but instead focusing on your emotional predisposition to guessing. I like that. I love that and I think one of the major issues is we are taught and communicated to at such a great level with so much problems that that what you're talking about makes so much sense, but it still quite contrarian which blows me away because the greatest investor of our lifetime. Talks about what you're talking about here. Brother, right? It's all You know it's funny. I was having a conversation with. Another individual this morning, and the individual said to me that you know. He. They invited me to some deal that to go listen, and he said you know the problem with you is. You'RE NOT GONNA. Get anything out of this and what they say because you're contrary in any way, I mean you pretty much do what you are going to do. Regardless O- other are saying, and you usually make your decisions. Connor intuitive to whatever else does. And that historically has been my Modus Operandi if you will I do have a tendency. I mean I sit and laugh at some of the stuff. Some of these people come on and say I mean there's a couple of people I remember. When they were on the financial crisis and I was like first of all. I would never be dumb enough to put myself on a ledge like this to say the things. You're saying because if you're wrong. And you could be wrong you're. GonNa get crucified. And they are. I. That's why when people say to me. Matt. What do you think the market's going to do this year? What do you think the stock market's going to do in the next six months? Do you think the stock market's going to do in the next three years? I? Tell them I have no stinking clue and nor do I really care. Because at the end of the day, it's about owning gray businesses over time right? You know it's kind of like some of the questions that people have been asking. How can the stock market continued to go higher and higher with all this bad economic data? We've covered it. Smart Investors Invest in the future, not in the today. Guy, make your decisions based on what you think's GonNa happen the next one two three five years. Not what's happening right now? What's happening right now is already happening, and the valuation of the businesses has already been as already bit sad, but hold on I use. Say something often on these podcasts and I want you to. You just said it a little differently there, which is the market has already blankety blank this end, can you, would you? Would you fill in those blanks her? Right. The market has already priced in the pullback. The economy pulling back the recession has already been priced into the value of businesses and different businesses are affected differently by economic conditions, and that's why it's less important to focus on what the stock market does over a short period of time and focus on what your businesses are doing. Look seventy two percent of the time year over year. The stock market's up so if you WANNA just instantaneously, put yourself in a position to be seventy two percent right stay invested. Don't try to guess, and you know the other thing that people arguing debate which I unequivocally disagree with they say the stock market is efficient. Bull, how can a market be efficient? There's too many variables and moving pieces inequality market. There's too many personalities. There's too many there's too much financial information. There's too much economic data. There are too many things going on. Can I please just say it? One More Time Matt Investors? An investing is ill logical. Don't try to this thing out logically. Who would have thought Tesla at nine hundred dollars? Who Thought Square would be at ninety nine dollars. Three months ago right over short periods of time. Things are illogical, however, over longer periods of time. Become more logical, and that's where you get to that quote. Unquote efficiency if the market if you will and I prefer to say the efficiency of the value of a business, because Matt there's only two ways of business can go up in value, right? You get a you get an expansion of the price. Earnings ratio price divided by earnings. What you're willing to pay for Stock Accompany Accompanies Earnings Sixteen Times forward. Earnings is the average for the S. and P.. Five hundred guy. Lots of companies traded much higher valuations, and there's a lot of different valuation Matrix. I'm not going to get into all that, but bottom line is, you can get a an expansion off the multiple, so that's the first way in which you can get. An, increase second! Earnings make more money. I mean these are really the two ways everything that happens in between that. Is Opportunity. Either opportunity to buy or opportunity to sell a piece or all of that business that you on. Does the simplest. I can break down investing to K and when you look at people focusing on quote, unquote, big picture things and all the prognosticating postulating speculating. At the end of the day it still boils down to sit in at the conference room table with your leadership team, your management team and saying. What do you think we do here? What should we do strategically here. Instead of sitting in a amphitheater with fifty people and letting fifty people tell you what to do. This is why people ask me. How big is your investment team investment commitments? There's four of US last big. And he said it ain't going to get any bigger. I don't need fifteen people giving me their opinion about what they think we should be doing. The more cooks. It's the cooks in the kitchen theory right too many cooks in the kitchen. Stick to the process process before progress. Do you think we could do a podcast on how businesses are valued? Because that was really interesting what you said, there are just so you know. I keep very close of everything that we've ever talked about and I. Don't think we've actually really gone into that and I don't know if that'd be a fun podcast or that. Be Interesting, but we could really nerd out on that, maybe for a short podcast and talk about how prices are Yeah Dat what? It would be short. And, this is the deal. This is what I keep trying to tell people that. At the end of the day while. They ship of a business is important. I'll be blunt. It's not the most important. Now. It's going to surprise you a little bit right. A stock prices go up based on two reasons right, but those are not the only two reasons that you should think about when it comes to be making a decision on an investment. You have to think about time horizon for that investment. You have to think about it fits into your asset allocation strategy. In other words when people ask us, how do we inves-? We tell them we're top down and bottom up top down. Mean we look at the industries we want to invest as a whole and then bottom up. We look at the businesses within those industries who want all? We don't own restaurants We don't own. Airlines don't own cruise lines. We don't own many of the industries that are. Are Out there. We own financial. We own technology you know in financial. We own FINTECH. We own insurance. We own specialty type of companies Internet based companies like Jd Dot, com you know we own very specific types of businesses that we believe have the opportunity for only multiple expansion over time, but earnings growth as well or dividend growth, and while you can make a decision to buy company. Over a short period of time something can happen. That could completely derail that and Zach is a classic example of this. You know full disclosure. We have a large positions asked I'm not telling you go by it, but zest ended up in a two billion dollar lawsuit with Walmart. And known expected that to come you know while they were struggling for a long period of time, and while the outcome of that is unknown at this point, they're doing other things as a company to create shareholder value, and hence this company stock has moved from fifty cents to three dollars and fifty cents. I never would have thought I'd be here today. Saying that was that value, but I've been invested in this company map for eight years. Is a long term investment and I believe that we are going to get renumerated quite well throwing our investment, but there's no guarantees. But. That's one position as we state in our investment policy statement as I've told you before. No one position should make or break the value of your portfolio. It is the asset allocation and the buy and sell discipline so I would say we probably shouldn't do that. Got It. I also like the idea of you know. Talking and breaking down is a little bit more, but we're. WE'RE GONNA run out of time for that today so all right closing. Toss brother what he got well I think closing thoughts now our coming in the summer you know a big move has already been made in lots of companies as well as the indexes and while. While that's happened. There are still always opportunity invest in great businesses. They're always things that are happening. That are outside the realm of what's happening with your overall quote, unquote indexes, and that's why I believe it is about only businesses over time, not timing the business and sticking to that by sell, discipline and asset allocation strategy. This has been the podcast called won't get fooled again. Again with Mark, Pearson for national, and if you have not subscribe to the podcast, make sure you do and listen. It'd be really great for you to share this podcast. You're fan of this. podcast is very very easy to share on social media channels by just taking the share button, because more people need to understand that investing is not what you hear on television, investing is. Is a process you need to stick to with unbelievable level of clarity and disciplined so four Mark Pearson this Matt Halpern and we'll see on the other side of the Mike very soon. The content discussed is for informational purposes. Only it is not a solicitation or recommendation for any securities that may be mentioned here in advisory services offered through naps eight. An SEC registered investment advisor.

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Chip Davis from Expand-A-Pan Traps, Trapping Radio, MTA

Trapping Today

1:04:33 hr | 1 year ago

Chip Davis from Expand-A-Pan Traps, Trapping Radio, MTA

"Back in the first shed. I am Jeremiah would and this is the trapping tape podcast. Thank you for tuning in as great to have you here. The park is brought to you by cots brothers, lures K A T Z bureau, S dot com. Kyle and Cowan costs run a trapping supply business out of savanna Illinois couple of innovative Ford, thinking guys in the trapping industry. And it's great to do business with them. They have baits lures DVD's. They do a whole bunch of different things. They actually are the sole distributor of the TSA eighty five beaver trap. And if you have some TSA fives, he see their name is on the panel that trap. You can hear that story. When I interviewed Kyle several episodes back on the podcast. He he gives a little background on that. But I got a few TSA eighty five in the mail the other day, and as usual order from kospi rose on Sunday night and Monday morning. The order is shipped out in the mail. So. So I got them this week, and I was pretty excited to get those and couple of other things looking forward to a a small beaver line this spring, but something to keep going, you know, stay in the game and be sentenced traps Yar season goes through the end of April. So pretty excited for some of the snow to melt and see some open water, maybe a few places they way I was actually thinking about putting some expanded pans on my TES eighty fives and probably sometime soon I'll be making an order of for a few spin pants to to get those set up in. If you haven't seen the strapper, you aren't familiar with it? It's pretty amazing trap. It's massive eight and a half inch Ajaz bread. And it is it really guys. I haven't used it. But guys that I have trapped around and rode around with just swear by the TSA eighty five for spring beaver trap. It just increases your catch area by such a large margin. And these expand pans, I think will will enhance that even more. So I'm going to give him a shot. But speaking of expanded pans I have on tonight's episode. Chip Davis, the founder operator at expanded pan traps dot com, and chip is a really neat guy. He's got a lot of experience. He's he's done. A lot of things. He's trapper down in Mississippi. So we're gonna talk about his background trapping coyotes Mississippi for the live market a little bit on Mississippi trappers association and expand pan traps. How that all started in his thoughts on the expanded pants? So hope you guys enjoy this episode. I really enjoyed talking with chip, and let's get into the interview. All right. Chip Davis from Mississippi jip. It's good to have you here. Thanks for coming on. Hey, thanks. You my? Appreciate it. It's a pleasure to be sitting in with you to not. All right. So what I'm going to do is. I've I've got a bunch of words here things that I think of when I think chip Davis. So I'm gonna go through a little bit of this just to give people a little outline of your background. And then I'll let you correct me where I'm wrong or add or subtract from this list. So I've got Mississippi farmer a college degree in business. A Coyote trapper primarily alive market Coyote trapper the owner operator of expanded pan traps. President of Mississippi trappers association husband, father, family, man. We got you covered. That's about it. Yeah. Account feel like I might have been over entered east there with. Well, it's kind of funny because we don't really we've never met in person. I've never been to Mississippi. You probably never been to Maine. But, you know, the magic of podcast we hear each other talk. And I feel like I know you exactly exactly. Yeah. Mine is place ice. It was up. There are few years ago and Turkey on actually two years back back and oh unsuccessful no first trip and. And that would require particular state when he's Turkey under his way. All in say. Yeah, I was I have been to Maine in a thoroughly enjoyed my time of their head some lobster in fresh lobster for the first time ever and Brown bread. Is that what you call it Brownsville? I think that's what they called it Brown bread. And then though exit Whoopie cakes is at Whoopi pies. It's funny. Okay. So I forgot Turkey hundred you you have. So I believe I heard somewhere you had a goal to kill a Turkey in every state is that that is my goal. Yep. We're getting on down the road with that sat turkeys in our it didn't matter, but think thirty eight states now and planning a trip to Utah and outta ho this coming spring here in about Sixers eight weeks. So that is awesome. So let's talk trapping. I'm kind of curious how you got started trapping in. What was your first experiences on the trap line? Yeah. We had muck family is had farmed from the time. I was you know, actually, I guess before I was born my Granddad came back from World War Two and started farming goes my dad following those steps as well. And as so family was was in the the hill station, Mississippi where they were were leaving informing, and we had a guy there was actually a telephone repairman that just kind of a I wouldn't necessarily call them the family for him is more of a mutual acquaintance, and he was a tracker. And he asked permission. I was against fourteen years old at the time he asked my dad for permission to trap one of our farms that was relatively rich in wildlife and critters and sameday gave him permission. But under one for miss that he takes knee. And and that was a big hunter and always have fan. I guess grew up around the host sort of thing. And and say, Mr James travel. Deadlight in trapping on each took me, and it didn't take. But just a the the very first day. I think before I got infected with the Bogue and have not gotten rid of that day. Absolutely, cold, my passions, absolutely, low, traffic and everything the revolves around it. Isn't it pretty interesting? How sometimes all it takes is just knowing another trapper running into somebody else that traps, and it's like I feel like a lot of our prediced predisposed to be trappers. But it isn't until we run into that trapper that we we kinda catch that. Yeah. I think it, you know, I I love these stories I actually easily on typically on the other side of the table interview at at vessel denies guys a lot. And but it's Ankeny how many have baby similar stories. You know, either is usually warranty things up on is an ice. I think that's changing. So it might follow about good with that. But it's either a kid solid Trat hanging in a barn. Elder all or it's it is similar to mind. He was exposed by one of the trapper. But you gotta remember when I started in the eighties in the mid eighties. We were still on this this mentality that she didn't tell anybody. Yeah. They ended that that was his FOX. And if I if I tall anybody or showed anybody because I was a kid at the time. But that was the mentality. Most of the tracker in you. There were no, you know, publications. They would you know, there were a few Dimos, I guess for fishing game in two or three other publications, but they wouldn't you know, they wouldn't tell you much. They've shared your trap look lie. But they might not say you had said it they you know, they may allude to a little bit of what a loser was. But there was no information on what the proper way to use it, and that sort of thing. So it's kinda funny. How that survive? All I said at my circle around on you. I do think that anymore with enough think this comes down from the amount and knowledge is out there now that guys are following into trapping more on their own or experimental because they can see this on the UT grain, podcast and and demos invoke. She going in depth with a knowledge. So I think so different era than it was when I started I think it kind of has to be because there are so few trappers out there for people to interact within learn from that they you know, if you don't have someone nearby to teach you in you, you can't get that information online. You're not going to be a trapper. So do you remember the I trap that you set or the first animal you got I do I the very first day outran with Mr James we sit traps of fake that the first actual set. A mate was a one and a half cold spring Duke that we sit far raccoon are we had a unique deal there. I was a sophomore guests in high school at the time we could get our driver's license when we were fifteen years old. I grew up on the farm, and I was driving. I had my own quote unquote is a farm trip is the truck that I drove all the time when I was thirteen years old, and and it was not frowned opponent. All Chris to go to town and go to the grocery store to the farm or go to school or whatever else drop off before. I actually have my license in. So I don't remember that. It was actually the first moaning. The second. But it was certainly on that the when Mr James was starting to try to steal some of that knowledge in may, we had hung a snare in a creep own a beaver dam break, and when I walked up to the beaver dam, we had just probably anymore average size Baber. And that was my first case in oh, boy when I saw that you thought that was that was the probably the culmination of my life at that particular time. Did you must have gone out and decide you're gonna run a big line after that? Well, where we are unique situation. I would roller at every more miss giants had other track lines. See? Okay. And so I'll have run our lines together. Then he had some time off work early afternoon. Whatever animals we call I would dispatch and leave them and because back in that day, everything was put up, you know, we put up all the for anymore. We sell a lot of this seven spatially green. But we're back then it was all put up so I would leave the critters in the back of my truck in the hostile parking lot. He was swing through someone when he got down on his live. It pick them up out of the back of of much wrote. And when I got out of school, I would go when out help him finish up in the first she, you know, usually about done by that time, a we would we would make the run again and reset because I was not at all proficient, then vapor, if you know, I'll tell you this hour, we had somebody I could just leave the critics in the back of my truck, and they would take him. About the take him for me now. Yeah. So you've come a long way from from those days in and now you're primarily a Coyote trappers that correct? That is correct. We when we started I think emission earlier, we didn't have any cuts in this country in but check for several several several years, and we were primarily FOX we had a lot of grays and quite a few heads. And that's what we I always loved the Wyan stuff. I really did. Even my first gates was water was a beaver, but it wasn't long after that within a, you know, the next several days, we picked up several reckons in a possum, or and Sarah FOX, and that sort of thing, I just always gravitating toward land staff. I just I enjoyed that more same blackness complicated cut my teeth on. But I guess it was probably own up to the mid to late nineties before we started seeing coats in numbers. Here and well that's much more recent than than we saw. We saw him probably in the seventies. And he yeah, we were quite a bit lighter than that. No in the the mid eighties. We just noticed though, non existent and up on the world. So but yet early to mid nineties early nineties, they started influx in the and by the mid nineties they will very prevalent and by the late night state had pretty much out competed. The the FOX I think a lot of guys have a misconception of that yet that something happens a water and something happens on land their babies similar. I believe in the the relationship on land. A lot of times is red FOX and cody's in the water. It's make an auditor. Yes. Both both critters eight very very similar diets. They both have have very similar habitats that they stay in. And obviously code is is just much larger. Schmo? Prolific. I don't know that the Kennedys are killing all the red FOX. I don't know that the otters are killing any the make. I think that they out compete them because they double a triple the size, and they have the same habitat requirements, and I think that's what we see more often than not. Yeah. That's an interesting observation. I I'm just thinking about that in terms of our area here, we I very rarely catch mink in the otter extremely abundant here. So we're we seem to be seeing that trend because I talked to old timer trappers. They used to be meek trappers. That's what they did. And it it's hard to you know, you could still trapped mink here and there, but they're not they don't appear to be in the abundances that they once were. Yup. Aside. That's the same store year to when I was learning in the eighties that we there's a lot of Gaza called a wild make in our state. We recently had our Mississippi trucks association versale our annual I heaven bigger each year. And I think I saw three make through the entire sale. And if this had been thirty years ago, there may have been I hate to even hazard guest. You know? N how hundreds or thousands of make probably thirty years ago. You know, where we did have quite if you are auto vice will just in the place much similar to the coats and the red FOX irate FOX have been relegated to town. Now. They're hanging on its town in the garbage eaters. So that's about the only place that you kiss from anymore in. There are few I caught one years ago and saw one this you that actually spat far head one game camera didn't actually see him. But but yeah. I just think that's what's happened. Yeah. So what can you tell us about this live market thing? For us northern guys. We don't we don't hear much about that. We hear occasionally mentioned. But we don't really understand it. Is more of a heritage thing. I don't have a only involving from the trapping side of things hounds. And usually of the use of house and hunting is a tradition. Otas. A south sale, I guess, I grew up deer hunting, and what we call a dog club, quote, unquote. And basically they would run the what they'll do with dogs. And and there's this gun to this day. So. Yup. And and so that's kind of what started the whole thing. Guys were innocent huge market guys spent a lot of money on their hands. And you know, and they'll have big competitions spill trial competitions. And you know strike. Oh, joe. He had the Joel phone this one. And you know, and and this dog is, you know, back. He's he's leading the fact he's got the drive and endurance. A whatever they they've got several criteria that they judge the hounds all most of the pens are they're they still refer to Mus FOX fans, but but their stock were coyotes and they prepared as game some of the the FOX pencil spill by FOX when they can get their hands on them. But is this going to say it's ninety plus percent Kennedy's anymore. Maybe ninety five percent. So that's what it's about this very few states that it's legal in. And I think that goes back to the heritage thing when I catch a Coyote, and I sell them into the loud market. He's he goes into a huge enclosed pan. And when I say peon don't think of dog fan of the backyard these things sometimes can be twenty five hundred three thousand acre. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. And they've got topping closures and underground wire on that round ages, usually. Also incorporated is a the actually trying those separateness slightly smaller enclosed with hot wire around. It are a week or so just to give them used to hot wire. And they sell them get out. They they most of the time when they go in the end there in the pan for you know, they'll live their their life out there. Now, the dogs do not catching keel the Cavs this misconception. A lotta guys think and I'll but the it's just a huge market. The whole hound thing is in so some people just want to watch their hands work primarily that factory. Right. Yup. And our sydell tailgate and listen to them lot of times they run in the summertime at night. And so those guys will they won't turn their dogs loose until ten ten thirty nights. Sometimes they'll sit there two to three o'clock in the morning just via sin case that old times talking about hounds of of old and off and this is his kind of almost they old tradition of life type type of thing down ear. There several southern states that they got from the Carolinas. It's, you know, this this legal, Stephen not all even southern states is legally, and so it's just kind of a niche really that fits us doesn't fit it doesn't fit folks from all across the country, but it is a niche that does fit us. So it's interesting because you you're in an area where the for is. You know, you're not talking about top quality furs, it's a warm climate. So the first noticed prime the you have the opportunity to get a little better price for these coyotes for the live market, but you have to take some precautions you trap a little differently than I might trap up here in Maine for coyotes is that right? Absolutely up when out trap here again. That's just what all to do. You know are out far is not the same quality. I've had lots of opportunities to travel around the country and attained lots of different shows and you look at a Coyote that comes from Mississippi and coat that comes from Maine. And then they call them both the cow, but they're not they're not both the same animal. Yeah. I mean, we just we don't have the far out on their mean. That's the reason the stark difference in the money there. So yeah, we count of you can't pick lemons make lemonade a little bit. And I think that's what all of trappers have to do to certain degree and the quick movement that we use quite a bit different one of the criteria because these coyotes are gonna be in that pan for a long, they won't healthy feet. They don't want cuts. They don't won't certainly any kind of broken bones or anything like that. And. And there's some things that we can do with our quit moment that a trapper. There's no need for him to do. But you know, the the tracks. I use search stream Lee gentle on their feet of Attila guys. If your staff, and this is not necessarily the strap for you at all there's a good solid sound traps. But they are all there's no needs to go this when I talk about cuts, and this is something I'm always try to be careful about I'm talk, usually it's not even a cut usually, it's an abrasion. It is not uncomfortable to the animal. It is not a it. It's almost like if you've worked with a wooden handle anything show will a ho in the garden or whatever. And and you do that through three hours in your hands or not calloused up and tell you're gonna have the sampler type type of hub issue with your hands. Well know, this you're in your hands are probably be tender for a day or two with. That's what they don't want. This is not at all inhumane is not saying that, you know, regular stop traps in any way, shape or form a modern day equipment. We will your were the whole trapping industry is just gone so far into taking care of what we of of what we kids we want to treat that animals humanely as possible. So we're not talk about a cut it. This is not a deep cut. I mean, I can't tell you when and most of the traps off them off the shelf anymore, even your seldom are going to get some any. Count of fractured bones or anything and the cut some talking about a more abrasions or wherever. But when my buyers by this because he's pretty closely inspecting all full fade. You know, you know, smokeout cuts or sometimes plus and different things like that. So we just choose arc with -ment to match. What we're doing had? That's funny. I was thinking when you're saying that I get a three year old boy, and he's jumping off the couch in running all over the place. He's got more cuts in Brazen's. I don't think they'd accept him for the live market. Yeah. Exactly this. But you know, but you're but you're not mistreating him. Anyway, you're eating how I try not to. Does gets back him around a little bit. So that that that's really interesting I in and you talk about you. So you're using like, the the the certain trap design, you've got swivels, you you've even got us shock springs. And I you know, I've I don't use shock springs at all. But it's interesting. You just you take all that into consideration for that live market even think about shoulder injuries that right desk. Right. That's that. That's my purposely shock springs. It saw its is is show is shoulder stuff. You can't see that. You know, you're not both you set a trap one with shop swings. One without shot springs, and we're gonna have very very similar product. If those cats are going directly to a field trial, especially some of these really high Sunday's high owns will sail for twenty thirty thousand dollars. Rhett relatively common place there. Artfully artificially inseminate the, you know, the females and some of that is some of that frozen can go for a thousand dollars a straw. I mean, this this is a big big market. So sometimes we sell directly to a trial where a lot of these big dogs are are are running together. And if if my trap does not have the shops plane in yours, does you just stay him chance that that, you know, maybe not every time busy develop a shoulder strong. But but if he does if he hits the end of that that Trump just right, then is just a little bit extra insurance policy. That's the sole reason. I use them this this all about our market only. That's that's I wouldn't even be considering probably. Yeah. All right. So you had a good season this year, you I heard you guys got a lot of rain or we'd had. Yeah. We did our kitsch was oppressed percentage. Wise where our numbers will do it. Our our rain or a weather in our climate. This year was just unbelievable. I record rainfall. It was just I I did not have nor did many people that I talked to have opted traps anywhere close to what they typically do or would like to it was just off. I mean, literally twice a week every single week. I believe from from November three fade wary. We had at least an answering. Yeah. You know, you'd be pretty one day in and you say, you know, Crispin cool. And and say, oh, I sure do wanna go said the Kowt line, and you look the weather and tomorrow night they're talking about ninety percent chance of of two or two two threes is Elaine her are Slegers. Yeah. Once point is setting. Exactly, exactly. So. Yeah. I was I probably say at half the traps that typically say in a year and a one because I didn't want J one because he got in the way as far as life. It was just whether you know, yet now are you still farming? Or are you leasing out your land? I am not farming at least at Milan a couple years ago, and that is been working at really really well for me. I've had a chance to obtain. You do some other things that that I'm wanting to do in gave me a little bit of extra time and and much needed a lot less stress. And so that was yeah. Hi, I'm I am. Out of the the active farming is most people would know currently. That's awesome. So I I want to transition a little bit into. Chip as the entrepreneur businessman. Because a lot of people know you from expand pan traps accused also a little bit about how Where'd you get the idea about this in in how this all get started. I would live to tell you that I came up with the idea of the big trap hands. But I did not I heard about this from a guy that many people will the name will resonate with him. A Clint Locklear who has trapping radio podcasts. I think it may have even been the original trapping podcast out there. It was. Yeah. And so I heard I heard Clancy hawking about kinda interesting. How that happened? I'm almost never seek. I just I just seldom driver get sick. But I don't know how long has even been it's been Agar nine years ago. I got the flu, and it was a really bad strain of flu that came through late me up. I was in bed for like four or five days, and is right in the middle of the winter, white one out should have been warning to be trapping. And there's no way of other. Chipper and. Nausea. Just sick sick. Sick can be and I ran across it. So what did that was actually in the early days of I guess, maybe you cheaper have been around a little bit. But I was just kind of getting in. I guess exposed to some amazing how the same block it should have been waiting longer than ten years ago with these when. Yeah. But it really wasn't. But that's where I kinda ran across clint's Wolfer nation, and then a kind of got to listen to strap radio and or trapping radio. And in saw started following long. He started talking about these these big pants while I was already a fabricator just by necessity on the farm. You know, we made stuff all the time. And as I started researching the history of where these big pants came from and later on Clinton, I got to know each other, and we actually became really really good, friends and still are to this day. I actually chatted with Clint vista of probably about an hour ago. He called me all this afternoon. And we were talking about something totally different say at any rate. I quit him is. Hey, Where'd the big paying idea come from and Clinton had actually been out west and taking short shin from gory note a couple of different imes? And and that's where Clint learned about. The, you know, the all the be an idea in that whole excuse me, count, principal and premise in theory and actually had a chance to visit with we Mr. Craig one time and I asked Mr. Greg, oh how hey found out about them. And I think he had heard about him from another government track for back in the heyday of that. And and even furthered told me that they were referenced all the way back to a publication in the twenties and on and I actually had come put that out there a little bit. And I was happened in a found out the name of the publication and on if you go to me the convention, sometimes guys Commissioners, I have tables full of oats, trapping, literature is almost more of a collector's item or historic thing. And I actually found that publication. And and they were this is like a era. The this is a publication of nineteen. Galley? I wish I made you have thing. I founded again about copy of it and have the flying to your, but is mid mid nineteen twenties in that article had referenced Hudson Bay trading company and some as richer that they put out about using big plans all the way back to the you know to the early to mid I guess eight hundred hundred so obvious been around a long while long time. Yeah, that's that's pretty amazing. So just so people understand basically what you're doing is providing a retrofitted pan to put on to offer these traps that essentially it takes away all of that empty space between the pan and the trap jaw's, desperate. And what we're what we're combining is what we call pattern. Mrs or an animal will step inside the jaws of your traffic, but not step on your pan. You ask him to? Step right here right in that spot that important to and he did he stepped right in that right spot. But you missed him by an inch or two inches are three inches. Some cases or expand the pants typically do is in. We might can. We are making trap lands for thirty two different malls attracts right now. And our average probably in a need actually run these numbers. So I have exact number, but we're probably averaging two hundred fifteen to two hundred thirty percent increase in surface area in so circus. A exa- is bigger trigger is what it is. You know this. You're paying is the trigger that fires the trap. And now we just made it through your allot a lot larger in size and all that acquaints to service area. There's a lot of physics that goes along with that. And and in so, you know, each one of them are different H model trap. Or different. You know, have a lot of guys. You know, they'll ask me what all does this fit it only fits what you know. What what we designed? It are because right. We got our processes is. We'll take one single individual trap. We have to have the physical ear, and we've got a whole process that we go through with lots of calculations lots of measurement saw in in this pretty much exact in a certain tolerance. Is it? You have to leave in different places. Not all just around the the jaws sometimes you got allow relievers in springs in numerous different things. So so, yeah, it's a it's a it's a big process. And you know, we covered pretty much all of the modern stuff. Now. Some of the really, oh, what we basically evolved to doing is will make them based on demand waste with six or eight different trap models were making and as guys. You know, would you know, when we get a it's no certain number, but we had enough call or after her model would it one of those in when we would start making that trap. And and so as a result of had opportunity to have my hands on a whole lot more different models and makes attracts and probably at typically would have otherwise because you buy join single of a home by infant stuff. Yeah. So so if people have seen these are, they're really funky look in some cases because you have to cut out those notches. So when the levers come up, they don't hit the pan, and you gotta get you gotta get around all those obstacles. So you would you have some sort of a a plasma cutter or something to to cut up the shapes. We cut everyone album only applies is the see and save plasma. So once that design that initial design is done every single number exactly the sign we make them all here in in house. You know, we don't stamp on long. We don't ship them overseas. Or I'll that every single one of them is made right here in the building them sitting and talking to you right now. And so, yeah, we pretty much every single day and it takes that to keep up with their demand. All and so yeah that so that's kind of the prostate is. So, you know, every fifty explained the plan looks like every other in BA five fatigues, and entertaining, you know, every blitz. Her three dogs is looks out here. The bridge thirty dollars visit expanded fan. So whatever the case may be they're all computerized. So the computer actually does all those fine cuts, and and that sort of thing, and and what does it take? Two. So someone buys these pants and they wanna put him on their existing traps. Is there? It commonly. Are they welded on or they bolted on? What does it take to get that on your trap? There were just about fifty fifty you take a out probably the most calm. Our most popular trap in the United States right now. At least on the you know, the nearest is NB five fifty they kind of own the market as far as the light wall will new new businesses a lot of guys running them. Good trap. You know, really good trap that particular trap does not carry a pan boat. The ban on their resumes pointing keeper so this is really really difficult to make a both own a plan for the NBA five PT when it doesn't carry a bolt to start with. Just just spent a possible that has to be a well-known. Other particular models are easier to do a well-known on design. I will say this. We call them. Well, knowns we've got guys that actually, you know, Joe Abry holes in in do operate Serta Taus can just we'd have been physically will Oldham all of that's fine. We've got guys likly will take self tapping screws and skirt is screaming, you know, that welcome span the plan to the original pan and that works great. So you don't necessarily act whale Ramon or you have to be a welder have access to that to to utilize well don't fan the other fifty percent, roughly speaking of our of our trapped hands that we make our both aunts. And they basically a replacement pans. You will remove your your old pan. A good example of that is what we call the bridge or complex is the bridge or cheese and threes boat dog. On all this all four of those paths. They're really really comes a lot of a lot of use those out there. You'll just remote. You're you know, you're paying bolts, and, you know, remove your old hand your sock fan came with the trap and replace that would expand a fan and increase your circus area backup one hundred percent. Yep. All right. So now, I would be crazy. If I didn't ask you the most common question are most common concern get with expanded bands. I know you already know what this is. Toe catches what can you tell us about that? I logged to get the question and is somewhat of a lengthy answer. But I'm gonna tell you why I'll live getting the question because it shows guys are thinking and chaper should thinkers. And so I I love building that question because I know I'm talking to a guy this put some thought process into this question. And and and and kind of 'cause common sense was say, okay, you got this big pan animal can step on it from weight and fire the traffic way out on the side. And we just why were you not even giving MRs or marginal catches most people call them. Toe catches, but it can be more than a lot of different ways. Right. And so when we were first introduced to this idea heard Clint talking about this, and I had a the, you know, some toiling in my farm shop with that. We can start it start this process, and we just make them for ourselves. And we ran them for a couple of years, and we saw some significant increases in there are kits percentages in a members guy keep up with that run. A excel geek again. Everything is sprayed seats and keep up with with this. And you know, with our cases in that kind of thing. And we were seeing since significant increases in Kansas. What was interesting is white were not say 'cause I was in the sign KFI. So we at the big plan on trial because I think it's a really cool idea. But I bet you we're gonna say, bud. So more marginal kitches than what we're used to. And are marginal catches went drastically, I home, and then I really started scratching my head to say. All right, what an earth does that mean? Because it doesn't make sense that you'd think. Quite a promise you out was like, you know, this. This is not my sense about the time that that happened when I was really having these thoughts the crazy thing happened, but I happen to trade cellphones. And I've been apple guy for a long time in a forget, what model it was. But up all night phone on that happened to come with a slow motion camera, and it took a week or two you to to figure out how to use that that function of that phone. I said, you know, what this may help me understand what's going on with this and been attractor NFL briquets her at a little bit of lane torch technology, anyway, I said up slow motion camera, and I bet you we've fired five hundred. With a stake in his so much that you can learn there yet and we attract from every single angle we stopped traps regular pants. We fired. All we fired, you know, traps equipped with expand the fans, this is what we found when the first thing is at the end to give you the background on this. I had a stick. That was that we use in. You can even save this on YouTube channel, I it. There's there's a couple of different videos up there that but we whittled a stick at to be roughly the sided look a lot like your, but it was roughly the same size as the county's foot. And that's what we were. That's what we were using the fire traps because I wanted something to be very similar to what I what my purpose was with with apparatus. I would evolve debate be expanded to plants. So I found that the foot hah. Had to be at least fifty percent or more on the pan to achieve track. Fire if it was less than that you then the the trot JAL in the bedding of the earth around the track held a foot up with. Yes, we would beat would be sufficient to not allow the foot. Depress the pan and fire the trap. Okay. So so that's the person that we found is is we had to have at least fifty percent of the weight own the pain sale. The next thing we've found is when Wade had beefed e plus percent of the foot on the pan self and the track fired we had two phenomena of physics going onto Zach same time that resulted in much more centered and much deeper kitchen, and I'll try to verbally explain these. You can like I said it's easier explained we you see the video that we recreated input on YouTube on our our channel. But yeah. Is that just expanded pan traps too? Yeah. Actually, if you just start to UT for expand the pan, that's our channel. Okay. And and so in in that video them talking about his own their xactly couple those on their the basically what happens is with with no way the picket percent on. Now. You're gonna cheat track. Fire. Imagine imagine your mind's eye when he's when he's more than fifty percent on the pike the JAL of the trap forces his foot towards the center of of the the whole tramp sales. The John Paul because that's where he's at. He's more than fifty percent. So he's not thrown all these phone toward the center. Okay. The next thing that happens if the exact same moment in time is the nurse show of the springs. Uncool any or if it's a long spring of of the springs working, relaxing, our decompressing it causes that track to to appear to joke in the air. That's happening. Exact same time animals would be forced toward the center that trap. Okay. So so so those two phenomena that are happening. Exact same time result in deeper catch. It is and more centered catches than we were seeing without the expand fan. So then we had another big dilemma after that. Or I could buy that. I can see the physics that that was pre VIN with a slow motion footage, and we did this hundreds of times. And absolutely put him into that. We were seeing deeper more centered cases with those. But I could not figure out why in the world we were seen a greater number of marginal cases without the pants. You know, I I can understand why fans were not seeing them. But while as much, but while we see in dramatically more marginal case. With a stop, right. And so this is not theory. I cannot prove this. I've done I've thought about this hours and hours and tried to recreate this a ton, and it's just hard to do you magin how animal walks across the ground, and it really makes no difference animal, but the liberal physics of how he puts his foot on the ground. Most animals have a wold even humans to turn their apps. There are basically they're the backside of their foot or Paul are or whatever human. It'd be a flip and animal be Apollo guessed it, usually it's the ground. I the pad at and then the last and it world still all that food is in contact with the ground. And the last thing that here is the types. And usually that is in the food is already an hope for motion there when the when the toes are are are leaving the ground. Just amazed. Learn how you all to yourself is. Oh, this is my theory Irian, this is absolutely poor. And show you on the slow motion video how on the forks one I just got through talking about. But the second of of, you know, while we see in mobile or marginal cases, when we got a smaller plan or even a cut down. There was a time in the you know, though, early nineteen hundreds or inside nineteen thirty forty bits very small pants got to be. Oh, yeah. I've got some beaver traps the Panzer cut to third of their size. Yeah. Exactly. Well, this is what this what we what my theory is as so site. We got a toenail or a tower or two or three times on the pants. It's a certain amount of pressure on that pan to file the trap. But that that notion of that leg is already up Amercian. But because you you. Roll it the the back of that foot and the rest of it would is an oath word motion. The own thing has got a downward tendency at that time is the very very chote. I do a little demonstration at at at nationals in a lot of the shows. I go to and and this is why do I'll foot either the twenty dollar Bill on the table or are out? Put a a, you know, a pack of expand as on there. And I'll find somebody young a love yet you kids. Ted help me with this especially like teenage kids or baseball players of the best. I got great odd hand coordination in order to use a whole those their hand ride over you say that twenty dollars Bill on the table, and I'll put mine say threes buck, and there's one rule they can't move their hands until they see me move mine, and I will reach down grab that twenty nine. I'll have it picked up and almost behind my back before their hand can ever hit their out in. I've actually thing. I'll do I'll I'll do about three times. I'll get further and further and further away with. Hand not beat him. Every time the only rose they can't move until they see my hand. Mu said the reason I do this Irela straightened. Same thing happens with a cat. That's a stimulus. It takes the chance of one second or impulse to go from your brain through your noticed system to fire. Those those receptors in your muscles to contract to react to that and three tenths of a second. I'm close a trap in three tenths of a second. I can reach down and grab a twenty dollar Bill or Packer expand to plan away from guy before we can react to it. Because he's whiten on the stimulus that stimulus is hailing the track close the animal still has three tenths of a second reactionary time as way off we did was humans amls newest wail invest just the way that God made us it takes a split second for those for those electrons run through your nervous system to react to something. So that's no different with the with the Coutts fake. The only difference is with a bigger pans. He's all. Laze in a downward motion for at track fire in that down promotion is very very important in those is a long way answer. And around ask your question. But this is what it boils down to is. There's a downward motion fires the trap with a bigger pants has to be because he has no rain. The foul the trap with oakwood motion. You've message all the traffic earth around it that prevents the trap from firing, you know, with the dour motion because as the rest of his way to supported with the small pants with the stop pants or even a cut down hand is foot is already upward motion. If he happens out of that trap with two two tokens become an Oprah motion. You still might catch him which you're gonna case him much much shallower on his foot, maybe by toenail. Maybe by Toews may be you know, whatever marginality you wanna you wanna refer to that ass. But that's it. That's my theory on if I could absolutely prove that with a video promise, you already have it certainly makes common sense to me. And I've given a lot of. Thala and laude effort on how to do that. But basically Avar explanation and under this a lot lot of words to say that. But that verbal explanation is the best talking the can can do an MS theory that you know, that's that's what I think's happening. Why like your theory? It makes a lot of sense to me in tried to visualize that as you explained it in and it really clarifies. Thanks. So the guys like me the guy that taught me to trap was an oak Gorman guy, and he he was into the the wire screen pan covers and basically the paint cover would be the entire area between the, you know, covering the inside of the jaws how do the expand Pence differ from just having like a big wire screen pan cover over the the whole entire space in between the jaws. Well, what one difference is you don't have to own stock in the BanDai corporation from cutting yourself from cutting. If you've cut them you play it. Yeah. They they lay pines a deal with the wire springs do at -solutely increased surface area. They do that's their function. And and they do extremely well on that. I was a fan wire springs before I went to today's these the plan to paint just make it so much easier than than they with that. But they bandages are very much the signing here again, I don't want to sound like the used car salesman. Just. You know boatman apartment, but they typically the wire screens a lot of times are one or to use a product him. You know, usually after this faithful with a case bit remains in a kit shortfall, if you're not an owner Jag or something then the Masons get you up and beat up Rudy badly. So that's you know, expand pains, you're pretty what's one done. I'm a we occasionally have the end. But this is not common at all. In what booming? Dave you can get straightened those out into right back to work for the rest of the seasons. Now, I'm assuming that a guy who uses expand opinion, you're not going to need any pan cover whatsoever, or any paulie Phil or anything under the band. Yra current except for you all are narrow rain the distance between the Gialle that trap in the pan. And I am because that payment of soul type some of the stuff the client that I- trapped in it can be really really dry easy work with today, and it can rain to night, we can have a freeze a week and have ninety degree weather. We're all over the board down here without whether they're in Chapin season. And we have a lot of sun we can bait that dry Dirk got with after the rain into a break. I don't know anything that will impede that track from pollen. So what I typically do. The boss guy. Anyway. Us peak balls in my only function for the peat moss is just to branch those gaps in between the pan the drought sale thous, call just to keep keep some of that Klay from falling into those gap. Just to keep a stiff dirt for all any investing. All I'm trying to do. Just bridge gaps out of us. I've got big hands. But I use about palm oil and author rattling the center of the pan. Literally takes me half a second to do that. I'll turn glow of hand upside down, and I'll wisk it about twice one way twice other and typically done there. You know, all I'm doing is just building that breach. And then grab my sister and sit riots off of it getting to be a big fan of grass clippings, I'll I'll sit grass clippings, right, right over whatever the case, my fate. But yeah that song. That's what I do. Yeah. That sounds pretty good. So anyway, guys want to check those pans out. It's expanded pan traps dot com is that right? That is correct. Yes, sir. All right. So that's that's awesome. Chip. I appreciate that explanation. They really makes a lot of sense in and helps helps us understand that the whole expanded pan concept a lot more. A couple more things of Mississippi trappers association how on earth. Did you get involved in that? I know I know you in the last few years you've been really big on promoting trapping in the. I think it's an order for all of us to promote trapping. Oh, traffic is is a little feed part of a small John out there. I guess we would fall under the outdoors type of you know, organization or whatever, but you compare us to deer hunting or Turkey hunting or hunting or or anything else. We're so small we got it together we gap to band together, not arched exposure to Mississippi Travers association that I'm going to refer to NCAA for the balance of this there several MTFG's from is a sippy of ancient me chapter cessation yet of Abe. That's right on but for the balance of his guests or referred to MTA is Mississippi tribalisation, I went to back again. I was in fifteen years old with minister Jones trouble and each to some of these events went to a annual meeting. We had. Had and and our remember some comments vis Jamie quickly became my main sewer Amos still to this day, a guy that I really respect in Meyer. And now he's Lou this live in and hide Ramon life a lot after him or he told me and those things he was in quarter to heal. I saw his passion for that organization in our developed this anything, I think just probably a result in field is all those kind of site masters now got into trapping, a they just became a passion. And the same thing happened with Inza he just came as shin. There was threatening in my home state that was not been very much. It's not lot travelers down here. You know, very few in a had opportunity to delete organization and highlight that they may be we go we've grown what we up owing gun. We we're we're making strides here of. There's a lot of things we actually had Tamang knowledge. I any country almost televised our own demand convention this passive timber. We had it at best pro. Yeah. And on our website, and I will do that outstanding is his MS trappers dot com. And there's a section under there that is conviction demos, and we recorded every moment was known it. There are some big names insane. And they were all of those demos are available owned my own YouTube, absolutely free. Yup. And and I'm not aware of another sociation that's about that coming from Asian out there. Instead, it's it's like a virtual who convention, you know. So that's kind of what we need. And it's just, you know, unique ideas, and and I'll you know, I would like to save him smarter. Thank of some of those. But most. As the copies, mice lose. I've got a great group of guys around me and some really foward thinkers, and and some guys that are really worst in the technology, and they still or viable to us. And they this is just a tip of iceberg. There is so much more than we in new day's Kate close to what we're doing so guide. And may you can literally his computer on his cellphone walks the demos that were done less less timber. And almost a safety hit up in our Mississippi convention, so nice crazy. Yeah. I can tell you one guy that's done. It already. So that the thing that I really like about that is that you had it in bass pro shops. So all the people that are going into their that have no exposure to trapping, all of a sudden, hey, what's going on over there? You know? It was a great opportunity there. Well, the date was very very out on how we chose that day. We had on the last weekend chamber are both sees and opens on October the first that is the the visas day, and obviously that store tipple on analytics. Some of the management their best the beef Theus besides Christmas season, but for equator targeting actual outdoorsman, I'm not necessarily talking about sales because I probably topped that with the, you know, the ladies in they are, you know, buying is around the holidays for their. Songs husbands or whatever of outdoorsman, but on as far as show sportsman. They're out there pursuing wildlife in whatever form or fashion there is that was one of the BCS. We is that had investment the weekend we chose to our conviction, and that was very much on purpose. You know, we the the thing that I would caution against that. Is we have a group of people out there? Mation lied that or gets what we do. And they are they're asked Hanshin about their position is sometimes made me even more than we are about hours. You know, and I'm pretty passionate about chocolate. There's not a lot. But say you gotta have contingency plans. And you've got to do these types of things with a lot of tact. And you know, you've got to be real careful if you say in how you present your information with our goal was to make. Increase the awareness of trapping in our state, and we do that on the, you know, though, the facility the at the one location that was probably had the biggest single that a gathering of a while consumers, and you know, they aren't so that was that was what we did that was our process behind that. And that is awesome. I like it. All right. So let's move on from MTA. And I've one more thing on a cover. And I thought we ought to we really ought to give shout out to Clint and trapping radio. Because I forgot to mention early on in the show that you are a occasional host of trapping radio. And and you're going to be on here shortly. I've actually got this this week's couple of chose this week that I'm going to be filling in for plant clint's down a couple of family issues these days when we it, but I'm gonna wait. And let him explain that. You're what he's got going on. He's facing there. But but he bakes Gladys asked me about billion Allman in I do case play. And just just depends. I'm sometimes I'm own what's up? Sometimes it's once every six went some house every couple mossy just depends on what Scott going on Clinton. I really really good friends we trapped together every year we hooked together every year. And so I'm just Philly end as guest host for him. If you're not familiar with trapping radio. You can find that podcast and trapping radio to dot com. And right now, they are three shows weekly that are there. Most of those are archived that she can listen to it anytime. Oh, there's trapping radio was original host. We actually out inverted that server or Clinton head and said now Z that show got put the number tavis champion with Ian's radio the number two dot com. And you'll be of the the most recent shows you can go down the volume and say are Cavs. And we're approaching or hundred shows on there. Now just did one a couple of weeks ago and a get a number. I think we're three sixty or maybe three seventy something episodes already in. So the one on a week goes up Nieve, but you can archive them anytime. If you're if you wanna catch the new one it usually airs on Friday night additionally clicked the something called went of a free trapper, and he's actually about to spy, and that say something completely new this called man, strong, some lessons that he is learning observe just being and it's more of a a little. It's usually tracking in and out of all that trapping radio's pure trapping. The land is alluded a bit touches Morrison political type stats more lifeless and types of and then additionally on Monday nights, there is a good friend of mine by the name of Tim Roper does a podcast called meet trapper radio and his typically more about substance and in preparedness and not necessarily all tripping. But you know, hey. Jams. A great guy. He traps a lot of track with him each and every years. Well, and but he I don't know that he's ever sold anything into the for market. He traps exclusively for meat to feed himself and some great great recipes Hignett they face right off his trap line feeds his family with. So pretty interesting stuff on that on that Chapman radio. Jake, yet is trapping radio to dot com and meet trapper radio. He's one hundred forty two episodes in and trapping radio. It looks like three hundred and forty episodes. And I know for fact that I spent a lot of time in the summer outside of trapping season listening into those back episodes, and there's just so much there. Probably my favorite is that upload with when Clint interviewed Tom Aranda at the N T A that was really awesome. Yup. Yup. That was the most recent one. Yeah. Yeah. That was interesting. I was actually at the show and I'm trying to. Remember that actually may have even I think it did take place. I might be mistaken it. It took place in my camper. Sometimes the at these shows both manning Baudoin's say he'll come over there. And it kind of hold his hand that I know what that means height. The key. This. He's actually got a camper of his own so yes mobile global headquarters traffic radio for about a chain this now. Yeah, they're probably going to be a lot more interviews to come. Yep. Yep. Yep. Awesome. All right. We'll chip I I really appreciate it. We spend an hour here. And I know you're busy, man. And thank you for your time. And and it's just great to have you on SAS get your mouth appreciate the of up game to hang out with the us a little bit. I always love talking to trappers, and and talk entrapment, and some purely some favorite things to do. And and the favorite way to spend time is hanging out with a North American trapper. I think they're the best folks in the whole world. So awesome. All right to chip take care.

Mississippi Turkey Mississippi trappers associati Maine FOX Chip Davis YouTube TSA clint John Paul FOX Mr James Jeremiah Ramon Kyle Yar Sarah FOX Whoopi pies Ford
Rental Pilot Reluctance (November 2020)

AOPA Never Again

08:32 min | 3 weeks ago

Rental Pilot Reluctance (November 2020)

"This episode is brought to you by gogo. Inflight wifi has long been a desire for most light jet and turboprop owners and pilots. But if you don't fly above ten thousand feet. It didn't make a lot of sense. But now i'll go vance. Connectivity systems work at just three thousand feet above ground level making wi fi a valuable asset even on short flights go also established partnerships. With the aviation industry's leading app providers to provide in flight support for apps that most pilots routinely use discover how you can add a chance to your aircraft and take your in flight experience to an amazing new level with a pilot at wi fi cabin internet on-demand entertainment and even stunning three d. Moving map go to go dot tv slash eo. Pa to learn more presents never again true pilot stories from the world of generally ation in this episode. Do you pay attention to small things or do you wait until they become big things. Find out one pilots opinion in rental pilot. Reluctance by sebastian tuna cin flying rental aircraft can pose some interesting challenges. There is always uncertainty about maintenance safety and airworthiness. I've always tried to do thorough preflight inspections but especially so when flying in unfamiliar airplane or one that others have flown before me. Since these aren't my airplanes. I don't have the odors familiarity and awareness and must rely on others however over reliance can lead to dangerous situations as i learned the hard way some years ago in danbury connecticut i had flown the technumn p. nine to echo out of the local fbi on several occasions without incident however the last time i had flown it i had submitted a squawk regarding the elevator. It had felt sloppy during flight. I therefore paid special attention to it during the preflight inspection on this day. Something didn't feel right. So i returned to the office and asked if this had been addressed by the maintenance crew i was assured that it had and that everything was okay as a relatively low time pilot. I was reluctant to challenge the experts. And i pushed my little niggling worry to the back corner of my mind on. Take off the little row. Tax quickly accelerated us down the runway. I eased back on the stick and the airplane climbed swiftly as the threshold flashed by below a slight shudder through the control. Stick turbulence thought not unusual. In this weather i bank to the north and continued the climb. Fifteen hundred feet. And i are retracted. The flaps the shudder came again only stronger. This time accompanied by a banging sound as if somewhere behind me. Someone was trying to get my attention. Whatever it was it worked. I became hyper alert. Waiting for whatever came next. I continued to climb more. Altitude can only be good. I reckoned bang bang. The noise increased as the shaking. Got worse the stick bounced around in my hand and controlling. The airplane became more difficult. Then the banging stopped as suddenly as it started but so did the movement of the stick. I had no pitch control. I could still move the sticks side to side but fore and aft it was frozen. I had to get back on the ground. Before things got worse. Danbury tower one two zero sarah fox. I'd like to return to the pattern. I radio the tower sierra fox trot ident- came their response pushing the transponder button. I let the controller. Know where i was and gently banked to the right away from the town and out over the hills east of the airport. Sierra foxtrot right down wind runway three five number two to land the controller advise report midfield report. Midfield sierra foxtrot a citation jet coming in from my left was on short final for the intersecting runway to six. It passed behind me. As i continue down win for runway three five. This gave me time to think about how i was going to get the airplane back on the ground. I could bank the airplane. But i couldn't pitch. How was i going to manage. I didn't want to make any sudden moves or use any force on the stick. Further down wind. I add ten degrees of flaps. The nose pitched forward more flaps and more the hills below became visible. I- retracted the flaps. And the nose pitched up again. I had some control. The elevator was jammed. But what about the trim. Tab i added some up trim and the nose pointed higher between flaps and trim. I figured i could land this thing. Sarah foxtrot say intentions crackled through the headset as i was turning onto base leg. Are you staying in the pattern. Negative will wanna pull off and check the plane. I've got a bit of a problem. I replied banking the plane into the final approach. Are you declaring an emergency negative. I've got limited control but should be okay. Hoped i sounded more confident than i felt. I deliberately came in a little high avoiding the swirling winds. That usually greet anyone landing on runway. Three five on a hot day engine. Almost idle full up trim controlling the pitch with the flaps. Oh for a johnson bar. Instead of electric flaps half flaps airspeed a little above the stall one hundred and fifty feet over the pond at the end of the runway. Looking down i noted the residents swan oblivious to my passing as it glided across the mirror. Smooth surface fifty feet over the threshold. The runway approached so slowly. It seemed to take forever just above the runway. I cut the power and the main wheels touched lightly and i was on the ground. A touch of breaks a quick. Turn off the runway. I pulled into and out of the way corner of the apron and shutdown anxious to learn the cause of my predicament. I'd heard of stones being kicked up on gravel strips in jamming the elevator but this was a paved runway. What could have happened climbing out of the cockpit back. It was immediately obvious. The elevator set askew it's left side drooping down a quick examination found that one of the two bolts that normally held it in place was broken one piece was gone and the other was jammed into the hinge. Who knows what would have happened if that had gone to. Flying is man's second greatest. Pleasure says the sign at the airport. Landing is the first so true. The lesson i learned that day has stuck with me regardless of what i'm flying or with whom if something doesn't feel right i address it. I won't push those niggling worries away anymore. I'd rather look foolish than stupid. The never again. Podcast is brought to you monthly by ao pa. The aircraft owners and pilots association. You can find more never again stories online at ao pa dot org by tight big never again into the search box while you're there check out a as mobile flight planning app ao pa. Go as well as the many free training and safety courses from the air safety institute find all of this and more at ao pa dot org the never again. Podcast is produced by royce earl. Thanks for listening fly safely.

ten thousand feet three thousand feet Fifteen hundred feet Danbury tower sarah fox vance danbury Sarah foxtrot Pa fbi connecticut fifty feet johnson bar ten degrees pa air safety institute royce earl
HUGE preview of Harry and Meghan's Royal Tour, new Princess Eugenie wedding details, Buckingham Palace's $500m renovations - plus, a day with the Sussexes... in Sussex!

On Heir - Royal News & Interviews

1:00:09 hr | 2 years ago

HUGE preview of Harry and Meghan's Royal Tour, new Princess Eugenie wedding details, Buckingham Palace's $500m renovations - plus, a day with the Sussexes... in Sussex!

"You're listening to on air with Omid Scotty and Emily Andrews. Hello, everybody welcome back on air. Another episode Emily, and this is episode before we head off on tour with Sussex is recording in London. Today I'm going to have worn more session next week in London, and then we are going to be on air on tall. Yes, for three whole episodes, we will be with the duchess of Sussex as they hit up Australia, Fiji, Tonga, and New Zealand Fiji Zealand tiger. Yes, I think I mean, we'd love to say that would be recording it from the beach and Bondi, which is one of the places that going on maybe a beach on Fraser island, but a spectrum with unite in tiny hotel room choices keep further part which of those we can't get any resistance on the Mike, not quite as exotic as perhaps everyone might think. But yes, relentless day. So we definitely going to deep dive escape special deep dive in t-that told the success. First major international tour also going to talk to you about Eugenie Jack books, banks wedding, which is next week Queen. Jake. I didn't app morals news on Buckingham Palace, and of course Kate's back for Matt leave. So you mentioned Youzhny and Jack's wedding. We now know that that will be broadcast on TV here in the UK we had been speculated at before they confirmed we could find. Could find on the show without realizing it. Story without even realizing that we hit donates. We just kind of everybody just set TV and not BBC. It's funny how being in this bubble you forget it's public information is an and sometimes I gets me into trouble. It's I, it's, yeah, the internationally head space sometimes quite crowded forget, but no, everybody knows what we think we know anyway, yes, TV which is one of the major terrestrial channels in the is showing Jacksonian wedding. I made it is a little bit weird. Isn't it? Because the BBC turned it down. I mean, this Debbie turned down and so did the big four networks in the u. s. and was quite surprised when I heard that he'll see the cave network had picked up the rights to add the wedding. I think it's going to go out live so be like four twenty five AM east coast time with the four for the west coast. So very early. But then they're gonna let repeated throughout the day. But seal see is the home of unconventional reality shows may hit me have a head of any of these. Have you heard of my six hundred pound life. No, I don't pimple Popper, please timing. That's just someone popping the pimple is a doctor that found fame on YouTube by popping pimples, very close up on camera. She's diamond tolliday st- I do not recommend you go and seek those videos out, but they weren't. And also, of course the conic toddlers TRS which gave birth to Honey. Boo, boo. His honeybee a very young child star, a pageant star who went off to have reality show with parents, and there are many other shows. It's is like, you know, really high brow. The wind and the wonderful butts off prison. She needs weather. Look. It says a lot about where the Royal cities TLC is the home of very specific kind of pop culture in the US shy royals do transcends same, many different sort of areas. And and I would say they really do fall into the entertainment celebrity and we'll we know from the guest lineup, we went through Las, we that there are a lot of big names there. It's going to be that sort of typical pomp and pageantry that people expect from the roll reading with the glamour and the glitz all the kind of listers. Also, this is a great coup for them, but I can also I understand why some of the big networks has hesitated to put that much resources into three hours of coverage because that's the thing it's really expensive, isn't the family in the the k. public do not pay any vista, be broadcast. So whoever signed up to broadcast the wedding as indeed Harry magazine had to pay for all that length of cable or the TV cameras, the rigs own operators. Then of course, the men and women who operates all and cut cutter, all, and then had to feed it to. We have the networks that costs a lot of money. So I guess it's a massive investment, and I guess the TV network sought will all we go to get both in the UK and abroad. All we going to get that back in terms of advertising revenue, gonna get people watching it. I may said nine. I thought it was fascinating. The BBC overseas a public broadcaster. In the case, it doesn't have to think about advertising. I thought it was fascinating. The BBC's said night, I'm really curious to see what will come out from the wedding in terms of images. We know that there's two days of celebrations and oversee. We've got video coming from the wedding, it self service, how much of the wedding itself is going to be released in terms of official photography. The pilots haven't actually confirmed any. The next day they've this private family, which which I hit that the Sussex is owns going to because of course they're flying off to Sydney, but be very interesting. See how much of that comes out because I'm sure if it would down to Sarah fix. Prince Andrey who very much being involved in the planning of this wedding. They would love to put the whole thing on show. Yes. I mean, I think safe to say his name age that we understand that when a there was no kind of proper broadcast of the wedding service, we all talk about service, hey, guys, that hour long sermon in the chapel of George chapel, which eleven to twelve next Friday an hour earlier than than Harry making go married when there was when the BBC tended down. We understand that Prince Andrew and Sarah FOX, and his ex-wife still very friendly, and they're open on the wedding together with usually they weren't very happy and they wanted their daughters big day to be on the television, which was quite interesting. 'cause if we contrast it with Harry mega and we, we know that Harry really didn't want the press. They're torn if he could have had his way, we wouldn't know woman being there. But obviously his position, you know, six into the throw now to Prince Louis that that had to be very different kettle of fish rarely, with with Prince, Andrew, Sarah, who really did. All the press they're in particular wants broadcast. There is more the images I think should be. We should get some really nice still photography because it's quite took was being allowed into the whole shoe cloister which is obviously outside the steps. Georgia's chapels issue. We should get some really nice pictures of all the royals and the the bridal party and the Josiah, Charlotte's pays girl and pays boy. Although again, that hasn't been confirmed. And we, we've said, Pepe the bridal party, but that that very little being confirmed. It's been very different to how we experienced the buildups Harian Megan's wedding because the palace was so good at sort of staggering out every bit of these. How for the wedding, the Flora's Kate maker. You know, the bridal posse we got full list of that very close the wedding. We really haven't heard much for usually's wedding. Maybe that's what will be so fun about watching it maybe is the kind of the catch is gene in to find out. Theories either because it does seem to me a little bit contradictory that the York's won't publicity for the wedding, but yet officially Buckingham Palace, you kind of handle officially hunt all handle the Jacob York's official channels. Haven't put anything out. So I find that slightly strange one fairy being that they didn't want to make to that Buckingham Palace itself. I mean you you czars wedding look at Peter Phillips's wetting there wasn't filming if the service. Yes, for talk outside. Yes, reporting positions that we could watch, but it really was, yeah, we understand his interests will provide a walkie varmint for you guys, but we're not going to give you anything more giving service, etc. Has been quite different with each knee jerk spank. But so I was quite surprised at Buckingham Palace haven't given us a bit more information. And one does wonder whether that's because on if I may Shen perhaps the reception it win. Carsoup maybe the reception it roll John the Saturday is that going to end up elsewhere omit do with Hello question Mark. Watch this space. We don't know. We can't confirm anything. We haven't heard anything, but we we do here that Sarah certainly in talks, I think with some TV networks last year about trying to do something I take that has materialized. I think it would be feeling if they did, and I'm sure someone who said you can't sell out your daughter's wedding effectively, but also it's going to cost an awful lot of money to don't think the public would have take issue with, especially when if it's seen as sort of recouping some of the money spent on the Wetering sort of public resources, calm. I don't think that's on the on the. I mean this beta, but if a control c the about this piece to two million pounds spend on security, full EG, Jack's wedding. Now, Buckingham Palace Kensington Palace, Clarence House. Never comment on security matters. I they figure ease a little bit point in the sky is peace. We don't know how much it cost, but I kind of think that you know, under thousand people applied to be inside Windsor Castle. They wanted to be there. We tax path to pay police football matches. Please the Olympics police, any of these big kind of national events. And it's actually you pay cures to the crowd, not paying the security, the Royal family because they're within the wolves of Windsor Castle, fine. It's just the people outside crowd control, that kind of thing. And a lot of people I think will actually turn out in Windsor to watch. The carriage procession usually was brought up Windsor. It's her hometown. She is getting married effectively in her local church, having a reception at granny's house and then going about to dad's house anti mum's house. Because Sarah still lives there for a party. So I think it'd be good day due to sight see what she was or more. No. I get people get very excited about the dresses. I think it's thing saris all excited brides out, but wedding dresses kind of let the same. Big puffy dresses. They are like twenty eighteen like kind of slinky. Fucking peacock feathers in my wedding dress blowing. It was amazing. Sign peacock, feathers festive feathers taking peacocking. Well, I'm really excited see headdress because I think that bitches needs new had come on the some fire in the past for their fashion choices. And while is that putting it politely I mean, they have both of you mean. Those hats. Goodness be. So I, I'm, I'm really excited. See what she wears. I hope that she's quite fashion forward and I hope that she does do something quite exciting. They did fighter sheet in vogue lost. I think September when it came out in August did a fashion sheet. Bitch, usually in the grants followed whether having the second party third party. Okay. So say the party on the on this act today? The policy there on the Friday night am the policy there on the Saturday. I thought the girls look to mazing. So I I think that Eugene's being very involved overstays any broad woods, all the decorations and flowers. We are going to be able to see kind of the floral artistry on the Friday. Morning speaks only thing and Jochen Charlotte, page-boy advisement again, I think that we really nice and I think everyone is going to be looking quite closing the TV to see if as any Chica Fibro Sarah FOX, the pride. Over in another part of the Royal family Buckingham Palace is entering its next phase of resurfacing refurbishing this full autumn for partic- has been actually when I said this morning that was going to resurfacing meeting Buckingham Palace. He thought they were actually going to tarmac over the four courts of Buckingham pilots. That was what I was going to go, hey, this morning, Tom king. Yeah, it's far off though. So the focus of this work has basically replacing the essential services of the pilot, so boilers and electric wiring. And then it's going to be a new energy center. A lot more eco friendly, maybe a little warmer because as we know they only heat ups in parts of the palace and we were actually a briefing there earlier this week and it was warm, but I know I've been there in the winter. So you keep your coats on. Within the palace, it's it's kind of four signs of a square for those of you who haven't been Buckingham Palace and massive four call outside which the famous view, and there's matter quadrangle in the middle. That's four sites square the north, the very creatively titled I made the north wing the east wing the west wing and the south way. And so yes, sometimes it'd be freezing a thought. These probably won't get a massive amount of headlines the reserves of Buckingham Palace. But because obviously it started two years ago this the planning for it started two years ago and the Royal household given three hundred and sixty nine million pounds to pay for this ten year appreciation to essentially bring Alice kicking and screaming into the twenty first century. It sounds like a lot of money, but when you think of how much there is to be done, how many rooms are is I don't know how how many square book in policies. I'm sure someone out that will tweet us. Much to do. There's so much that you wouldn't even think of. So as you know, one of the things that all I can tell you go him, thirty thousand meters squared floorboards. Well, twenty miles skirting board, two thousand five hundred radiators. And that would be that's Notting miles heating pipe work common areas for household staff and all the rest of it as well, so that there's a law and there's a lot of think of well. So I think three thousand will collection items works of fine, arts and everyday furniture. Deo needs to be moved out of the east wing when the work starts in October, and then there's sort of six lost that will be ready for the replacement of the Electric's pipework basically this. So essentially, this kind of ten twelve year project has been is good is in phases and I guess we're kind of phase two now fights. One was the planning and the initial scaffolding work the back of BP which you would say if to come to visit BP in the summer this summer now in the sec. And phase, which is the renovation of the east wing east wing is when you guys think of Buckingham Palace and that four call the changing the guard, the east wing is what you see. It is where the balcony is. So essentially everyone, everything is being having to be moved out of the east wing two year renovation, all the art, the loot, the furniture Brown Furniture's described this morning, which I thought was funny the the mahogany furniture, which it goes out of fashion now, but as us state in Houston, state visits, heads of state bedrooms in the east wing overlooked swings. Got the got the sense room, the room, the Chinese dining room, Chinese drawing rooms. The south, we often go to full briefings sensory and we go Tim briefings. A lot of that stuff is Chinese, which was brought from the Royal pavilion in Bryson, which is Harry, Meghan visited this week. So gonna take now fine. China. And then they're gonna rip it up retool the pint words we do the electricity, but the balcony that sacrosanct balcony that will be in use for trooping. Next g now basically make a kind of safe corridors zero family to walk through. Even if also with hard hats on. No, yeah, because it's not. It's not going to be a safe. It's going to be a building site. Maybe they'll make it kind of corridor, but so that's going to be two years and no one's going to have to move out the Queen is not going to have to move out. Her quarters are in the north wing, and that's going to be the last phase of the building works. That won't be until twenty twenty five. And the Queen apparently said, she's very proactive. She said, where have you want me to go? I will go until twenty twenty five. We'll see about that. Apparently I thought was quite interesting. This morning, Prince Charles has been quite involved in the old, his green energy. He's very into kind of renewable 's new energy center. As you said, they want it to be carbon neutral as possible. I'm not sure it can be calm and neutral, but to try and be environmental exactly as possible. Obviously, you know, Buckingham Palace, I think we have the lovely master the household, Tony Johnston bird on a date spoke to us, and he is, he said, you know, this is public money, so it's very, very important that building belongs to them nation. So it's fundamental the public know what we're doing with the money and how we try to think transparency is this sounds like a lot of money. But again, this is making the this sort of fixing the palace for the next fifty years will you know, this will see through Tony king and also William tiny said, it's one of the law. Last few working palaces in the world. HQ, which is where all the business of the Queen, the the king is dawn. And so it is it is a massive office building what is being very, very bureau. One of the most famous buildings in the case yet massively over Jimmy and the specimens in boss, wires and fire risks. And as you said, this lows of massively important chinamen paintings and stuff that potentially at risk. So yeah, it was very interesting. I thought it was very interesting. Jake of n bro also has been kept very much abreast because of course of the work Tony flew up to Scotland to see. I'm Prince Charles Burke hall and keep him involved in abreast of all the different phases. Apparently he reminded tiny that he'd been in charge and Prince Philip in charge of the research of Windsor Castle in one thousand nine hundred. And he approved this phased approach house because he said your loan from your mistakes. So that's why they're leaving the Queen of Princeton. It's quarters, right? So we already mistakes. They make it at the front end of the pilots to the back, they'll know exactly what I'm sure they know by now I've, I've renovated one place myself, but you need a contingency fund because it always ends up costing an insane amount more than you think. It will say that we did all three to six, nine million. What's the contingency fund? And of course, as you'd expect from Buckingham Palace that includes the contingency funding continually to twenty percent. But even so I, I mean, it's on such that basically the whole policies being renovated. So such a massive scale. But I mean, I don't know about you, but my son, he went over my renovated, my house only five bedrooms. I mean, I went, I think it cost seventy eight percent more. The things we found and it was only a London townhouse only young. Sunny wasn't BP with its seven hundred seventy five reams nineteen state rooms. Seven shake bathrooms and get this one thousand five hundred. Fourteen thousand seven hundred sixty windows. What my favorite thing about Buckingham palace's is the coots cashpoints. Cates for the American listeners is probably the most prestigious Bank to belong to the UK. And I think you need like large amount of money. Five hundred thousand pounds to APR count. And so this ATM built into one of the culinary. His of. Of his with the coots logo and and that to me, it's just the most life goals thing ever seen. Funny is that this very Porsche con ATM effectively in in the corridor Buckingham Palace, which is just like it looks like a hospital corridor clock falling down corridor. It's horrible beige. This expose pipes, everybody's rust. I mean, the kind of juxtaposition the codes in the palace is is, is just perfect, isn't it? But some now is interesting and also interesting that you know, we I think is you know, I've said in the past, he made Prince, Philip is retired to intensive purposes. He's still keeping very close oil things. And of course the Quainton Prince, Philip aren't just coming to the end of their bowel moral. So Sean, that gonna be back the beginning of next week in time for prince issues. Wedding is busy at the moment we will with the Sussex is this week in Sussex. Home for taste of watts. The tour is going to be in time because it was a pack day. We started off the morning in chick. Then they went to eight household America, dictation dependence. Then they went Buchner we're gonna. Were he just university of Chichester went, Brighton went to the Brian pavilion survives network next door victims of sexual abuse, and then please finish off impeach hyphen with the Jawf EU center. So you know, as five engagements packed into one day to walkabouts. Yeah, which they seem to really enjoy and the crowds are huge. I think it was a really nice opportunity for the haven't been that poverty k before they did that source of unofficial tour of the country, England. And they haven't been over to done much of the south before and you could tell by the crowds with us, especially at the Brighton pavilion, though it was packs and what will I really liked, but it was how diverse the crowds because that is Brighton? I, it is brighter, but I think it's also the difference between having mega in as the duchess as opposed to when William Ketu engagements. I definitely saw difference just in terms of like the the crowds there and it was it was actually refreshing because you know the monarchy is very much in a different place now. I definitely think that Meghan Marianne make means that British people, whatever background they are, but particularly for no. Why? So there by racial, they feel that they have someone who represents that. I mean, just talking to Lance that Chichester university Bogner on Wednesday, they said that they stereotypical image of the Royal family is cold up toilets a bit rate, and they're like, well, she's halt. So I mean, Posey, no comment on her racial background. But I think that that stereotype is still despite William Williams vary. We'll hurry it sorts of broken some of that down in the past because he was always the fun one. He was always the one that would and high five kids. We saw there are two. And so the pavilion, when they had kids from local school, there spent good four minutes. And then Megan very did the same thing off to it. So they are doing it in slightly more modern way? Yeah, I think I mean to me, bright news, very diverse part of England. And if you're quite liberal and a few paps that what you would choose to live, you know, it's one of the gay capitals. It's really a wicked place to live and it's a wicked place to go out. So for me, I kind of a thought it was a Representative of Brighton itself rather than anything else by tightly -gree with you that Meghan does drop taps is slightly different crowd. We definitely saw in Brixton we would would we get will even going to Brixton which is sorry for those of you who don't know that as very lived job, be the most multicultural par London where I live and I live in Brixton and is one of the most cultural passive London of. People from the afro Caribbean Community settled when they buy tape written in the fifties and sixties. I mean, we've got William Cape team Brixton, no, but then that's what so great about hurry and Meghan and the way they're doing ring other areas, different parts as we'll discuss later on in the show with their itinerary for the voile toys, really diverse. And there's a lot of connecting with young people from all different walks of life. And I think that's what makes their phase or their chapter of Windsor legacy. So exciting. One thing I thought was interesting on the Sussex toward day is that these things all very scripted. It might seem quite at Hawkins Ganic, but everything's on a very tight timeshare Jill. So Megan, an Harry goal, helicopters partially go helicopter because I the train down and that was quite quick. But if you if you think how quickly they had to get for me to be four of the five engagements where in different places, yes, they got. Chopper and drove like a madman Regis to Brighton and barely made of skin, not because we verses press have to check in little earlier, but they got caught children, but it was interesting base. I, for instance, I was in Bogan Regis at the university of to stem one. If they communications guys said to me yet, this guy's the three different. We've just in the, they said, oh yeah. How are you making in three minutes? I was like for real. That's nothing three minutes and I kind of coke Nison of of of the kind of time constrictions and yes, they're all they're all very detailed itineraries that they get with all the times written on them. So one of the things that struck me on the on the day of the tour, and I think this will be quite tricky. I think for Meghan when we were in Australia and New Zealand, Fiji, Tonga off eighty told the New Zealand and Australia the she always wants to talk. She doesn't want to let anyone down in the room. She wants to talk to everyone often I would see her Saint, oh, we haven't talked to those people better. Go and do. That and her continent tarry will like catchy arm saying, let's go over there. Let's go and talk to those people and him saying, we we call. I'm sorry we can't because he knows. Many times the shed Joel and I thought that was really sweet. I mean, she of her, she doesn't want to let down. She wants to speak to everyone, but unfortunately, in these kinds of situations, because as you said, five engagements in one day separated by quite law of miles to I mean, Sussex's west and east six. You just can't get round every mood. Remember having a chat with a show runner from suits who said that when they would finish at the studio mega always go out and meet phones voice outside, and she would sign every single many self. I think that's her approach to doing things. So scaling back on that. She feels like she's not giving enough. But of course there is you say, schedule on, it's funny because remember when they went into the Royal pavilion and they have this exhibit in and it's like artifacts for King. George, the fourth and Queen Victoria bizarre seaside high was. Yes. And so they have like all of these objects that belong to them. And so I think for Harry, that would be very interesting. But they literally had Harry and Meghan. March past them. Go in, look at the ceiling, look at some of the architecture and come straight out before they went to seat to the survive because they'd spent quite long time talking to the kids that queens Paul primary and I did wonder what they probably talking to the kids will household stuff on these trips with her mega and we'll be chopping and changing as the day goes traffic getting somewhat and that changes everything. And when we look at the morning, they're actually running early when they arrived at the university of Chichester. They came ten minutes early, but even with that, they still ended up running behind as the day progress. Yes, exactly. And so when it comes TV autumn tool if that is. So that's one of the most tricky things that both of them will find because that both chatty paid and they both at one to let anyone down and they both want to talk to as many papers possible sick. On these walk bats, that is quite a challenge. Enough challenge for Dr Cambridge this week. She came back from eternity leave about Kate's. I found it quite tricky coming back from Moi maternity leaves. And do you think is quite tricky even when you dodger Cambridge in, you know you hairdresser tash Archer, and everyone else be doll to make you the committee, and she did look amazing. And I thought that KP had chosen a really nice engagement for her maternity leave park kids, planting stuff. She came in to female, Indiana Jones. Great. Look eating. Blonde highlights and a hair trimmed. Those those Penelope Chilver boots, some new Danish Swedish of garb. I'm not even trying. Yes. She had gone to the says, cross for school and wildlife garden. The Paddington Recreation Ground basically have a first hand look at the positive impact that these forest schools that we spoke about. Last week's episode have on children's emotional, physical wellbeing, and it's basically all about getting kids, especially in a city kids in to the outdoors and connecting with wildlife, and sort of learning more about that. I know safe in the heads together movement. She does fail that getting out side is important for children's mental health. It really. Faith, the kind of physical activity and just being in the outdoors is really good for the school kids. We know that that's quite a big thing that she wants to come mental health children coming back to work, Catherine Quinn had probably been stuff I think on that and obviously forest schools, I don't know how popular in the US in Australia wherever you guys listening to us do on very of an eighteen month in a three and a half year old. So I quite popular in the UK. They it's a Scandinavian idea. You learn basically outside the whole day in Denmark, friend sends the three boys that I mean the depths of winter when there's like five hours daylight. They're there in the snow and they do not the building FIS off age too. So it is quite an interesting concept, but this this this is coughed is a school in sorry, and they've got this site in the Recreation Ground which in central London. So inner city kids can come and learn how to graced off. Off and learn about the environment. Kate went on a bug hunt. She said that she goes on bug hunts with Georgia Charlotte and Ma to find spiders. I really hope she doesn't find false widows. I was bitten voiced by the last week. Bit concerned. Family. I n g fitting boy, false widow. But yeah, I mean, I quite like spiders, but I think some of the arachnophobia outgrew that like only cold been looking to spy Georgia, Charlotte, that was quite sweet. Obviously spent a lot of time at sewing in the anima whole grounds. God and KP. Yeah, and I think actually realize how lucky her kids are. I mean, they do have a very, be still you guys, although Keeton William now based in London now nail spending my time and Kensington Palace certainly in the holidays and still it, but take the kids back to anima because it is they can run free there and is much more that kind of be colleague tree, long age there now, George Jordan, Charlotte before it was easy to push them around Kensington God. You know, it's it's not safe to have them in in sort of public light running around in public punks. Exactly, exactly. And so, yeah, it was a great engagement. Kate, I thought was absolutely brilliant. Full mid. She did school kids. She's like how all you really with them in a way that we don't always see fair, very excited. Some hugging ha. She's like. Show me around. She was definitely very much in. I don't say mum, but she was ready to play with the kids and where you get involve them because she spent the time with the instructors and teachers. But most of it was with the kids, and I think it was really nice to see us animated and vocal. Sometimes it's quite hard to hig hay on these engagements. And yeah, it was quite nice to hear every word that she had to say. Absolutely. Also was really nice. It was quite big park. And is she kind of walked around there was the the the forest goal bits were kind of gates off slightly, say the general public want there, but then she won't run the entire part from one bit to another. And the groups of moms are lot of moms. It was a lovely cheese day off sort of gear. Late lunch when babies are sleep, having their post lunch sleep. There are a lot of in the Pont pushing his around and k. stopped quite if he graves because everyone had that owns out. People can people seeing the police officers and we'll we'll what's going on. On. Two. So the green. The green goddess Cates. She did stop and chat. Quote mums was my babies and one little boy called Ramey. She's like, oh yeah, he's just a couple of months older than Louis and awesome how people getting on. And people really, really liked that. They really love that. It was a great return. What works. And I think to have that sort of renewed energy from her, and we've definitely gonna say, so we're going to say Cates next week, and she is going to be an Ning the Vienna, Victorian album z. of course, which is a first visit as the Royal patriots gonna open the museum's new photography center next Wednesday, and then awesome. It's with got William and Harry, but particularly William at wildlife conference in London. And I think Harry and William are hosting reception. It has to palace on the Wednesday, Wednesday evening, and then they William on the Thursday is doing this. Keynote speech, and he's also going to do some other kind of symposiums. And of course, I made as big mental health conference in London next week, which will McKay will be out next Tuesday. They'll be at the global ministerial mental health summit on Tuesday which is being hosted by the k. government and it's going to run for two days and it basically sees political figures leading connects policy makers from all over the world come together to explore and find common goals for better mental health for all right, deep breath, Emily Andrews because we are going to jump right in and start talking about deep dive, oh, isn't it? Deep. This is like the the next three weeks in Australia. Fiji, Tonga. New Zealand will be the deepest. I've we have had time she goes, I mean, I guess there's not much real quarter Ivan. I saying, oh goodness, it's really toy. Reagan anyone. I've had this made this comment to a hard life. Very lucky. We get to go to see some amazing places with the Cambridge is still probably one of my standouts going to Nepal with Prince. Harry was also one of my stand out, and I love that part of the world. But these toys are really, really busy and it's foibles, six Asians every day. This was the jet lag because Harry mega arriving on Monday fifteenth. But I think at midday effectively carnage join get IVA beta. The jet lag a minute really is kind of full throttle. We saw in the morning, Seventy-six engagements. Thanks the mat som league massively balls to math. Cool. It MAC mega on Wednesday from Tuesday, the sixteenth wrote Tiber to Wednesday. I vote Tiber. There is not one day or evening of downtime. For the couple is solid back to back in every country. There are several locations. It's a really intense toll, say just a little bit of background. Harry mega being invited to visit Commonwealth of Australian Zealand by the country's respective governments, and then the Fiji and Tonga trip came at the request of the foreign and Commonwealth office over here. Yes, because isn't and Australia all realms, which means I would say that the Royal family's say they're all family, but Tonga invasion on not realms that Paul the Commonwealth. And so this is the first time that they've, of course being to these countries together, Megan, she's being to New Zealand before, but she hasn't into the other three countries actually twenty fourteen twenty two thousand fourteen with her. Then husband, yes. She wrote some couple of blogs about it on the take, actually some tips and easy Leland. Yes, she, she writes museum, and I think it was a funny story about they were gonna campsite and some kid Nick close or something while she was in the shower, definitely not going to happen on this to various are traveling with an entourage of ten people. Slightly more luxurious arrangements. The private secretary amount, the Cohen he's going with them. They've go, Amy pick pickerel who is assistant private, secretary to Meghan and three communications offices will be there to really deal with us. Yeah. Yeah. A program coordinator who will be in charge of the whole country program panel tougher. Hey, takes their pictures for the social media channels, full KP, Royal family, an orderly who is from Phages without really nice. I think for think Harry has been defeated before a lot of people tweets, NAS, what an orderly is? Well, it's kind of like, I guess, an orderly. It's usually for the male members of staff because I think the women tend to have if you're the queen's has ladies in waiting. And then for Camilla, safey Kate, they tend to be termed personal assistance which is actively ladies in waiting rose. The orders are. Normally for the male, the moments star for the male members of the Royal family, amazing everything that pressure clean shoes, make sure their uniform. For instance. Put. Handle the luggage, luggage, make sure gets e they. We certainly tape on toes before bicycling in charge of all the luggage, which is a massive undertaking as all the dresses and garments in Jerusalem is built like a truck Eka rugby player. I mean, Fiji has a very strong and proud dish in of excellent rugby players, forwards props, and definitely fits that Bill. So he's kind of like a some people would say, man, Friday, a little bit lazy terminology, but he is one of the people who really oils the engine room of of the tour. Also personal system appear. We imagine that that we don't know who she is. I'm shimmy women were matching that she will be helping make it in a similar capacity and hairdresser who we think is George northwards, George, northwest. But again, KP wouldn't confirm George state Megan's half the wedding. He's done it subsequently on several gates. I think earth people wondering. Few tweets asking if Meghan was gonna, bring a makeup artist. Really needs to make politics because she doesn't say, well as well as make-up's I, she will need some sun block though, and Harry will definitely need some block because I've looked at the weather. I made certain feeding, Tonga. It's gonna be quite humid and in Australia, it's gonna be quite hot and sunny, which is a New Zealand of low rain. Well, always writes, Wellington, I'm throwing can be. Can be duchess that holds our own umbrella. I feel like we are going to be trolled by prices stories on this. You should mention rain, gumboots, Weli winging she is going to do in new-zealand. You just reminded me in New Zealand. She is going to do some Weli winging which apparently they call governor boot throwing. Yeah, slightly more adult. It's kind of anyone Fernan doesn't have an. I wasn't tickly familiar with it in the first time ahead of it. I thought it was really wearing is basically a game for children. And it's thing while eve. Wellington building space companies. Yeah, yeah. So I of thought this is just the cave dweller ranking thing. But now apparently the New Zealand too, but they call it gum boot throwing culture with. The two Commonwealth of stuff. So I haven't can't stop maybe like four or five kind of coma while dedications definitely couple in Australia def. We've got worn in Hongan. Let me just you can hear me rustling through my papers here. We have definitely one in Fiji. Harry is going to it Suva indigenous foresight housing, many floor of phone as to Fiji. So that's that's a column wealth canopy project table. It's definitely worn on the thirty Victoria, but that's an Auckland New Zealand. That's where we're gonna be in the wedding. Is there anything in Togo with as a real focused just on ecoed environmental issues. Canape in Togo in each the full countries that are going to then we actually closed the tool not with Kamath kinda pay butts, but the couple will be doing the redwoods tree walk in Reuter Rura vertu Rua. On the law that will close the engagement. It's a seven meter, seven hundred meter long walkway of suspension bridges between a canopy of hundred seventeen year old Redwood trees should be really fun, really fun. We kind of see them taking on some action roles, some stuff with cute animals. Koalas Kiwi, Teranga zoo in Sydney on day one. And then there's the, yes, they can cuddle. So in Australia itself, you there equality everywhere. That is like the mass unofficial mascots the country, however, is only in Queensland in Australia that you're allowed legally to hug a quarter everywhere else you have to Pat them. They are famous for carrying some diseases and so at imagine it's more about that than sort of for the happiness. That's a close quarter. So we saw William Katie the same Teranga z. they petted what's nice about this whole sixteen day tours at the program really focuses on same meter in areas. We've got youth leadership that's going to really c hurry come into his own with his role as KOMO thief ambassador. And then a couple will say, as we said, concentrate on environmental and conservation efforts, and that's going to be in caging and local community in forest protection schemes in Kylie, Suva pronouncing that writes, probably not. I will brush up all pronunciations for we stopped at all. And that will really focus on the promotion of sustainable tourism on Fraser island, which I'm really looking forward to visiting because it's pricey bees out there. And then, yes, as you mentioned that she can duchess will dedicate a number of projects the queen's KOMO compete. We'll probably see Meghan plant her first tree. And we had them. We had her do fest, plaque unveiling, Chitra seen versity this we, the first continue. And then of course, kicking off the toll will be the Invictus Games. Sydney itself. Both the really excited to see how Australia and Sydney fully embraced the Invicta spirits. And so they'll be that support the competitors across a wide range of sports. A lot for kind of iconic venues Invictus are is taking up during the games this year. And I think for Harriet Soysa very proud time for him. You know, it's his events. We said about Sydney approach. We haven't yet, but yes, so it's not just the tree walk at the end of the tall in Auckland. Harry will be strapping harnessing. Which I think he has climbed it before I'm going to have to check is I don't wanna say this definitively 'cause I if I get it wrong, you'll like come on me, but I have a feeling that Harry has climbed it before eight a. privately or publicly. But I'm pretty sure, but it's a pretty famous tourists do, isn't it. Sydney, a couple of times I still have to do that, but. It's actually very simple. You just walk. There isn't really any climbing. If you think of the shape of the Sydney bridge, you literally just walking up and down a hill. It's just very narrow. We should try and do that. Should you have the top of the Sydney Harbour Bridge climb, maybe not the wind with. But we was military gauge moments as. Quite few minutes guys. She an officer for those of you with good memories. You'll remember that Harry didn't want to give his wedding seats, the uniform, the royals. He warned his wedding day to the world collection for the to exhibit with what dress and we thought that maybe that would be because he's taking it to Australia, New Zealand Moines, see him in that. Certainly, I think pats couple of ANZAC things need and that we might see him wearing that. I certainly ask KP should take some kind of dress code or I journalists, we have to think about what what we should wear. It's, they said, it's quite an informal tore. It's smart cash, but certainly ritual hurry doesn't like sees one thing that him and on having. Into. Full seat and tie kind of like, you know, it's nice to parrot town is also. Jack eating on these on these engage nothing worse being stuffed into one of the many media pens that will be sweating. Yeah. So it's going to be quite formal, but there are I. I was told that we would need a couple of smarter outfits and oversee. Apparently Tonga's quite a conservative and way is is women were told that we would need to cover up, cover, shoulders, cover near the is key and have if possible have dresses down to the ground. I think trousers define Bove's. Nothing like getting tight. So obviously, Meghan, we'll have been told all of those she'll be, I'm sure we'll be well prep sartorially couple of asked me on social media other any TR amendments. We don't have to confess I didn't ask, but I'm pretty sure I have gone back subsequently and asked, no, there is one state dinner. There's a state dinner in Fiji, but I think in Fiji itself, there isn't really a culture of TRS and so on. And it would probably be a bit much on war is as you say a somewhat for informal tall to rock up with twenty carrots head. Exactly. And actually, we know that Megan's partial for jewelry is quite contemporary. She likes she doesn't wear many stone. She always just very simple gold or diamonds. If somebody pulls, obviously. Casual, April Australia's, very famous for its airport. So we might see her wearing some presence that she's giving. It's also possible that the Queen of land or something like a bro, possibly the bright. She lent Kate breaks for New Zealand. The fern leaf. I think it's a funny suddenly, Kate war it on that lovely black Alice temple dress when she was there in twenty four, teen Wath leaf. I think that's people leave, which would have been all of, you know, we mentioned these leaves. They would have been sewn into her train on her what interests exactly file, Vail, Vail. I mean, I know you don't like. I mean, I know you don't like wedding dresses. I'm sorry. Men in dresses. Clone. There'll be some really cool moments. I'm really looking forward to and we we spoke about this a long time ago on air is Meghan and Harry doing some separate engagements on the trip as well. Megan will actually attend to morning tea. The British high Commissioner's residence in walls. They're in Fiji to hear more about u. n. women's project called markets for change, which promotes women's empowerment and marketplaces throughout the Pacific. And that's something that Fiji is very focused on the moment in sort of promoting gender equality, making women aware of the fact that the roles for them exist outside of the household. And so after that show, then have a second engagement, she'll see traveling to see the markets to meet some of these female benders who've been involved in markets to change and become empowered through the projects. And I think it'd be really nice to see mega by herself. She'll be feeling very confident by them. I should have had days running up to this, but it's nice to see Rican. Acting with a very important organization just to give you guys a bit of behind the scenes backgrounds. The way these toys are put together, their teams on the ground of New Zealand. Australia are well used to hosting royals that realm countries to get Royal visits, at least every couple of years. So it's a well oiled machine for those particular two countries, a stretch of longlist engagements as suggested in country by the host. And then the wreck is done coupla months before by they teams that whichever Palestine is case Kensington Palace, they look all the long list, then may wanna choose them. They come back to the UK Goto the couple. In this case, Harry, Meghan and say, what you think. And we were told at the briefing that making had been really pleased with everything they've been chosen. I mean, I think it's as you say, I made its point well known what Megan wants to do. We know she wants to work with women. We know she wants to work with been female empowerment and helping us. She said it's not a case of women being heard. It's a case of women's voices being listened to. And so anything. That kind of we know those those were interest lies. I'm sure that people were mindful that when when engagements which I'm sure there would've been many lengthy discussions about the tin specifically involving Meghan because we have publicly. She hasn't expressed where her interest line so would have had to given some guidance on that. So the appropriate tanneries come. I mean, it's interesting that we were told that, you know, this is someone asked about there's no rugby every time we being newsy with Harry before certainly featuring Tonga because they're all very strong rugby nations. Harry's been watching games or mean rugby players. There is no rugby on this tour guys and it was a, it was funny. Actually, we were told that, yes, this is not a single man visit. This is not an attorney for being designed for young newlyweds, utilize Young America pulled. It's one of the first big tour together and so and I think it's absolutely right. I mean, it just so happened made just so happens, but in New Zealand, it's one hundred twenty fifth anniversary women's suffrage and Meghan we'll speak. This is on the Sunday, the twenty eighth Tiber reception heist by the governor general of New Zealand, although it's not written on the outline of the tour, parenting beckons going to make a speech at that. We're also going to hear her makes them off the cuff comments and some other engagements on twenty four Tiber in Suva Fiji. G Harry is gonna make short speech, and his capacities come wealthy, have BUSTER and mega will say he was. And I think earlier in the tour in Austria, she's going to say something because well and I, I mean, I as a chatty lady myself, I am all full this. It's great to hear what she has to say, great to have voice it. I don't want this to just to be about her clothes oversee. We're gonna talk about clay's not. They'll be some focus on that somewhere. Somewhere is a junior reporter, waiting with the count curates its Talia cost of Megan's Royal. Yes. So it's great to see what Megan words. And I actually quite chuffed on Wednesday. I've got a car key skirt. It's not at pencil skirt, but it's quite similar caucus got to the one that it wasn't that Christ caucus cut that Meghan was wearing all I have. And I was like, yes, validation my head, of course, we won't see what she's wearing, but we don't just we want to hear what she has to say. We want to hear this thing. Things that she wants to get involved. And she has such powerful position now and I really want to hear what she has to say and how she's going to use a position. I'm so excited. I think we're gonna see that on this tool, which is great. Definitely. I've got some secrets of the tour here that because I'm new people as soon as the tour was announced, we've had so many questions that regularly come away. We had a big briefing Buckingham Palace this week, and this always happens for the tour that always be a briefing with the head of communications at Kensington Palace. And then once we arrived in Australia, there'll be another briefing just to go through logistics to it because there is so much to plan and some people ask, do we get into the palace pay for us to come on the toward the, it's up to every meteor organiz ation involved in covering the tools to cover their own costs. The palace will give suggestions on where to stay and what type of what time we should be flying into where. But aside from it's, it's up to us. So I made where. They're going to stay on this tool. Yes. So the number of locations and when they arrive in Sydney, including down day that admin day on the fifteenth. Sleeping off jetlag, which is going to hit us all hard at w. staying the governor general's house admiralty house in Sydney. And then when they Fraser island, w staying at a hotel. And when they come back to Sydney for the closing of the Invictus Games, be a very fancy tell which will shed details of once they there. And then in Fiji, they will be staying in a hotel because the president's house is currently being renovated. It's the year of big, big recessing. And then in Tonga, they'll be staying at one of the oil villas belong to the king and Queen of Tonga, which I think is slight downgrade because in the past members of the family had stayed in the Royal palace, it self. Yeah, I would imagine maybe a couple of more privacy. They'll be staying in one of the villas. And then in easy land, they'll stay at government house in Wellington, and then the hotel for than in Auckland. So there's a lot of kind of and then oversee wherever they are win, far away, flying commercially to Australia and New Zealand. Say the round countries pay for that flights and the country. And then obviously, FCA was chartering a plane to get teaching Tong as the taxpayer pays for that. And I'm going to in-country when they're in New Zealand and Australia, which is what I did. I say when we being that before they Australian f. o.'s flies around in a plane and then also. The same thing happens in New Zealand than using that full flies around. They got the Abel Tasman in New Zealand which is kind of in the middle of nowhere. So national path gonna get helicopters today. Very swish. It should be interesting. I'm so I was quite interested. I made designing. I mean, I say only only ten star for such big tool that's not a massive traveling party. I mean, there were more stuff on me way in Sussex. We went through that list of ten and also going to be two additional staffers the to help a couple in Fiji and Tonga, because as British art commission, and as we usually see on the tools, they're usually many members of the British commission, and he's. So I guess that probably to help us because it's not just what Megan Harry doing for us covering aids. Obviously, there's four or five engagements every day they land in Wellington on Sunday, twenty eight folks hybrid three o'clock. And between three and half eight, they're doing six engagements mainly because they're kind of calling on the lead position administering the perception with governor general. But often I, the media trying to cover that. We have to go in advance of we have to early and we have to wait to the couple of gone before we can leave. So for us logistically to get round everything. We often report on everything and the media teams in the palace do try and help her and the teams in country try to get around as well. So looks really interesting and exciting. There's going to be deluge pictures and videos and comments. Facebook, Instagram, aiding, and we will be that every step of the way. Yes. And before then next week will have Asians riding on the October. The twelfth on air will hit just the day before. So we're gonna bring you everything you need to know about that very special day on the Royal calendar and probably have a lot more world tour stuff to digest before the unhappy starts packing yet thought about packing. Yes, you have have inside after we finish this, I'm gonna head off. Your weather pray. Pre I told I would say I thought I'm gonna pack, say, stall in reverse order for Wellington because I know I have got kind of shit shoulder slightly at the hotel that we stayed. I wanted to wear it just with steroids rain Samar. For people wondering, we've been on tours like this for the past. My I was with Kate and William when they did their first candidate all in twelve pretty much since for both of us. But I would say the packing is still difficult traveling, pick up different tricks along the way. My best one is these senior when he goes to the theme park and need to go on a wet ride and those disposable could goals always keep one of those in my backpack just in case point down with rain, and you can't always hold an umbrella when your rights. That's a really good tip. It was packed a lightweight, raincoat an umbrella sunscreen, mosquito repellents. Consolidations. I wear contact lenses and try and get away with as few closes possible Bracy. Packing my bag. No, actually, for me. So till next Friday, guys. Thanks listening to the show. Thanks for subscribing. Thanks only entries together, cook the competition. There are few more days to get your entries in. We will close submissions for that when the next episode hits. So if you want to enter, go back to last week's episode if you haven't heard it and all the details are the end of the show that until then please enter greatly hand washing lettuce.

G Harry Meghan Marianne Australia Fiji Buckingham Palace Harian Megan Tonga New Zealand London Kate maker UK Sarah FOX Brighton pavilion Sydney Eugenie Jack America Australia KP George Jordan
205. Mad as Hell with Zainab Johnson and Farzana Doctor

The Guilty Feminist

1:08:31 hr | 6 months ago

205. Mad as Hell with Zainab Johnson and Farzana Doctor

"This episode is brought to you by Kobe. Dot Com your local digital bookshop, offering epochs, audiobooks and e readers. I'm a feminist. But the other day my taxi driver, who was taking me from Chicago to the airport, so I could fly here to Toronto. WAS, woman, And, I pretty annoyed because it meant I had to lift my own heavy suitcase. Into the boot of the car. And she didn't get out cheated off again out. And why should she put cheese any better up? Body strength than me should. She shouldn't get out. But I was like. It was snowing. Sticking to walk I support women texture have so hard. Novocain, attacks driver, but maybe they could bring a bag. You just sits in just in. And he should not be paid because of the history of the world and the Patriots. Just be there to lift high back. Mentioned to voluntary basis like jury duty. Man. If I were running Canada. I would bring in. Jury style Bagman. Female taxi drivers. This is why I should be also elected your prime minister. I agree with that though I'm a feminist, but I only get mad. If Male Uber Dr Ruth don't get out to get my luggage. Like if it's a female uber driver, and she tries to lift my luggage I'm like ma'am. Hold on a second. Sir, come here. What you were waiting for Uber to who cares. This bag. If a man Uber driver didn't get out of the call. You'd be like get up. I did a star quick. Start. You want to do another Schumer acco oh. This is we were just talking about money. I'm a feminist. I. Always want to use his money. Savings accounts getting bigger and bigger because I I. Keep using here. You look so happy about. It's possible. That's why you have such big tax bill. I'm a feminist, but I'm watching Netflix, show you. which is about a male stalker and his female victim who has no idea? She's being stopped by him and is falling him there in a romantic. Relationship. She feels like they were renting relationship. And sometimes because he is reiter from his point of view. And because of the way stories work I, catch myself briefly, emotionally rooting for. The evidence of the terrible things he's done from. Because, she'll come into his apartment and you can see all of the evidence that he's got her old phone that he stolen. I don't WanNa. Give too much, but you know he's got this stalker. This is not a spoiler. He's got bits and bobs like a t shirts things she shouldn't have, and then he like passionately kisses her, and then behind her back. He's trying to push t shirts under so for whatever. Putting a phone under a kitchen and I of course because I'm watching a story I'm going Oh. My Gosh initially saw that quickly. Get onto the. From his point of view from the white. But also I'm really enjoying. It said at times what happens? I was just about to say. One? Started season. Okay, yeah, I think they added a feminist writer's room. Season Two more feminine for Season Two. Just saying I want spoil it. Often enough of it yet to know but Everest thing where you're going and what's interesting for me, but if I think they've done it to liberty, because normally you see it from the victim's point of view, a stalker, film or something like that Thrilla, so but he's interesting, but also I'm like stupid rooting for the. okay in terms of rooting for men on them I'm a feminist, but. I feel like in the titanic movie I know it's old. I feel like in the titanic movie rose could've moved over and made room for. Our hope feel like it was a very white woman thing to do. Like take the whole door. I feel like a woman of color would have been like weaken both making. A white woman was like Whoa. Where would I put my patio? You, you may have a point. However I feel when we get equal representation in the media. and. They close that pay gap. They can have half the door. Up until that point, the doors hours, ladies. I'm a feminist, but when I got to Canadian immigration, I was worried because I've never officially worked in Canada before. I mean I've never worked in Canada before. In any capacity fisherman official is anyone in America anyway. There was a male immigration and how they kind of do that. Thing like you're working here. I've never worked to before. I was like Oh. Yes I'm sorry. Yes, and I was like Oh. My God. You get that feeling that they're gonNA. Send you back. Are they going to go? This piece of paper means nothing. We don't want you here. Because just being in America and. When you have to say blessed, be the fruit. Before. We get to the next stage. And you say it because you know a go to eat so. Resign. Sorry, it's just an instinct now. So, it was like no this and the guy looked down at the sheet. The immigration officer, who was a man, looked down the street and then he went. Oh you'll the guilty feminist like the podcast I knew that podcast. Guy But I know the guilty feminist and he was like. Where are you performing and I? Said Don musical and he went. That's a great venue. Was So nice and I was just like. Oh my God Mary me. I was like crushing on him so hot I was like. Do you want to come to the show? Tonight and he went. Oh, I would, but I have to work tomorrow. And I was like that's a whole different day. Work in the mornings I can't go out tonight. I was like no I. Don't understand what you're saying. It was like you come out tonight then you got to. Marry me. Selena hammer cameras so charming. It's so polite so charming. The IMAC demand immigration. Knows your feminist podcast. And admires it. I think it's great i. just wish he left one thing out. WHAT'S UP I? Wish the that he didn't say. I don't listen mini podcast Geoff. Flattering because if he listens to all the podcasts if he listens to all the podcasts instill, but the guilty feminist pack is the one I like then. But you guys say I don't think women are funny, but you. Oh, yeah yeah yeah. I don't listen to podcasts, but yours, but if he said I've heard every podcast ever made. In the guilt deep imminent. That's my PA. I do see what you're saying. Also I'm going to beg you not to take this from me. I'm just GONNA. Say Take your sexy moment with the immigration by the way if you're listening sir. You all. I'm on, instagram. Slide into my idea. I feel like I just got blocked. And I apologize. I. Got Another one I forgot. Another one loving eyemouth immunised but I think boyfriend fit. Jeans are more superior than any other fit jeans ever. I feel like they should just call them male privilege jeans. And I want every single payer. Not. This is the guilty feminists what costume which weeks noble. Goals Twentieth Century Feminist Policies Insecurities which undermine. Democrats are split. Up Johnson where talking about being modest. I may have mispronounced you and I want to. Say. They NAB NOTRE E We don't say that in America language. Name last name. You just say no, we say Sunday. Yet. No, there's so many things I've had to learn the first time I left the country. They were like you're here for. Like it's not Christmas. Johnson. Just say right, yeah! I of Johnson, but written it here is sunol. And I thought sure it was Johnson before, but maybe. You see what you expect to see. So, I thought. Maybe it's always been Johnson. Read it so I said Johnson and then when I'm going to have to. have. You had a feminist week. We're guilty week. Do you reckon I think I'm always having a feminist week? Take no shit. No Shit take-no-prisoners. Salutini, I'm nothing it. Thank you so much for coming to do this. Can you tell us a little bit about your upcoming show? Upload sure it is I'm created by Greg Daniels. WHO CREATED THE AMERICAN OFFICE? You guys didn't care about that. The Canadian Office! In fact breakfast television. Very big funds the whole Nov them. What they people aren't home at breakfast. They recorded. They watch it at dinner time big pumps. No, but we actually taken in Vancouver so hey. You Take Kim. We keep it in Vancouver for three and a half months. Your tax incentives. So excellent. He's not Justin Trudeau. Was that predate? Predates him. Much. Much like black face. Ooh, I'm just saying. You, don't want brick walls. I was always crushing on him on this show. I definitely would have mentioned him. I would have done it. I'm a feminist bought about him on breakfast television box. I never thought he was fine to be honest with you on. My Dad's just a regular white guy. Wifi but very handsome more leader. All. The leaders together then not normally hard. It's not calendar. Time with very few exceptions when you add world leader to the title, it makes them unattractive Immedi. Because they've got to make the mania. A psychiatrist once told me to subconscious chatting sounds like a joke, but it's really. Wanted this a conscious married to a friend of mine. Anyway, they were all sitting around. I have to explain that I'm a feminist, but. Doing the psychiatrist is neither a woman nor friend of mine. We were sitting around the wives and. That conversation. which leads and they said all will award leader at the time. Gordon Brown. They said well. He's a sociopath and I said what how they said Oh what they disassociate. They kind of have to be, and they said we're not saying. He's like a man who sits in a van front of your house. We're saying that in order to lead country, you need to think your opinion is vastly superior to other people's and not be affected when they make this face. She going to see a lot of this space. Are. You sure and most people are too affected by that face to be a world leader, so you have to be a sociopath to be. A president or prime minister and almost like my. That's so fascinating. Yeah, also he probably had somebody chopped up in his car. Are you saying that Justin Trudeau? Because I have only just got my working visa here. I WANT IT TO BE REVOKED All. I'm saying Justin Dorado Discuss I. Don't think she's a sociopath I think she's. Regular Compassionate Person. I would not disagree with that I. Think She's the one. I'm. It's possible she's the Messiah. Come to save us. It's probably too much pressure. Enough pressure I. She's the missile all the baby she gave birth to empower. Because that happened very quickly. I think it was immaculate. Let's be honest. which couple were? Both got jobs has time to have sex much less running a country? If you were running New Zealand how many sex nights a year which you get. All I'm saying. Immaculate Conception. Sony a theory. You're looking at me like who got me into this podcast. Calling my manager. You don't really think that saying no I don't I'm happy to be here and just don't like. I'm happy to. Stay off Immaculate Conception six. Just. Back every on your right arrived just Cedar. Conceptual blown ready. Ready what are you mad as hell about at the moment anything? That's really bucking you. You know what's really bugging me. Actually I think it's because you know we'd started a new year and like you gotta get your taxes ready. I don't know how it is here, but I feel like the two things that matter as an adult are the. Things that they don't teach you in school. Like. They don't teach you about politics and they don't teach you about taxes. And also like the only two things you need. So Yeah I've seen so many friends online. Going I've come to a cafe to do my taxes just trunk coffee and cried. You'll right. They don't teach taxes. They teach calculus. Yeah, TAXES SHOULD BE I. Yes very few specialists use calculus, but we all use taxes exactly. My accountant explained it to me seventeen times and I was like I. Just don't get it. I don't WanNa pay that much money. Will. I actually happy to pay tax. If it's spent on not Iranian war, you know what I mean. please. Type of my half, my earnings in a wheelbarrow, going to spend it on schools and hospitals. Public, services. Redistributes some of my wealth to people who have no other way of getting it, but the moment I live in the united. Kingdom and that is run by Boris Johnson. appropriate. Response. And we're spending that money on leaving the European Union for no reason and basically every penny of tax I. Pay until I die now. We'll be paying off an exit fee. You know when you get an extra fee from your bank believing. It's like that, but it will be the end of time. Way You. Get an exit fee for leaving. I don't want to break this to you now. Would he chops that about the taxes? Laugh! Feminist if you will but curry after the seasoning, your cheers will be right there. They'll be feminists from the. It's not a cult look. I just worry about it because I was in a cult when I was GonNa many of you know. I was Jehovah's Witness in. It's a very high control group and. So I really worry. I just think people who've been in cults can accidentally. Start them. Source of in ut, and it's just sort of how you see the you something share on the gold accident. NAUTICA because. Of who? I wasn't going to go here tool this just happened. Initiative the word. Is Any group who won't let you leave with your dignity intact. Meghan markle. Say wants to come home. It's so weird. Actually the British press have that keep saying well. It's very very difficult for Meghan. How regia extricate themselves from their broil? It's going to be very very complicated. They don't. At? Hospitals in tasteful outfits, running the National Health Service. Doing! Nothing actually I think. I'm not a Monica stolpen. Do these engagements every single day like some people go. Chocolate and Pilot Dogs. Type they actually do have. Watch the ground. Talk. Regions. Looking to dissolve. Try to rise. They called the trump is. Her. She's expertise out, and that's caused politician right away because everyone. His British and then royal, and to stifle their tears from very young at six months. I think six months. When you're a baby, you've got six full months to cry, and then it's just it up, kid. We don't do that. Making tighter and tighter and tighter. That's the thing about that accent is. The mouth. Pushed out pushed out. What, stood just like. White in tight. Doesn't. Basic. Physically possibly get? Possible. People Civil. I would've. Tripod. You're him for the first time. You're very welcome into our love Nichols time. We think we're something of an bay ascent Kifah, coming I think a lot of the success of this nine audiences, because I think it was just like three or four comedians and activists in studio. You'd think they're all doing it and talking about. Honestly. There's accessible you can the audience laughing in foresake getting angry and you think hey. I'm running to loan. There's hundreds of women thousands of women and people of minority agendas. Sissmann some. Chairs you come to nine of your assistant at. Now if you restraint suspended mom. took. A. Massive game for the way. Clone! It's just what happens if you're a mouthy woman with a microphone and a taste rich is. Not, working tonight by metaphorically I'm going to read Shoe Jay. Is just what happens, but if you are a straight system Tamang welcome. Sorry didn't mean to pointed us in my that you are, but the way when thank you. I'm getting a much better spidey sense. For where they are coming. Do you listen to the show. A little bit. Two more than other people. I'm not saying that what I am saying. There's an argument. Can sack. Little Bit, are you? Are you with the palm or You'll hear with him. Why do you listen to just over here? It because back. And you said maybe. This, this is Sorta the reason your wife is. Is Unique. CLEARWATER! Only. Wasn't it clear to? You. MINNESOTA. Most for a long time that. Yes, yes. She told you this would happen. wrote going to happen and happened. She guaranteed she wouldn't have been so. What's? Chris. Christie told James She. Mike Mike so you'll basically Mrs Mico. Marcus husband. Would you call yourself a feminist? Yes, these this time he has also quickly. I'm going on a breakfast show tomorrow. Breakfast television show. Does anyone know what I'm going? Breakfast is there. One thing. Okay, you'll be going on the. Country Show. That works. Different, names What cool does anyone know? He's pulled up, just pulled. I Don. Good morning, Canada. Coffee Vancouver they all the exciting. I'm going. Tomorrow, we'll find out what. To talk about the book and they show, so the books just come up. It's called the feminist even tonight I'll sign copies in. A-. You don't have a book, but you'd like me to sign a body pass or Sometimes people come up with a copy of room. One's own. Show. Show Kobe Dot Com digital bookshop, encouraging you to stay home and read rather than go out and mix with lots of people without a mouse gone. It has lots of great audio and e Book offers the guilty. Feminist book is available both formats along with all other books on your to read list. Are Your feminist writer, well Kobe to Kobe, writing life very easy to use platform for authors to independently published their own books, so maybe probably Sharon own book they're. It makes them available in the Kobe store for readers and listeners around the world, and it is open to all writers covers even got to the trouble of creating a great list of feminist reads and listens over on Kobe dot com slash P, such guilty feminist, we could also enter a competition to win a Kobo e reader, and they sent me one and a half to say I love it. You can also check out the Kobo writing life podcast and go to the website dot com forward slash writing life. Thank you so much to our wonderful friends at Cobo for sponsoring the guilty from his podcast and keeping as going during lockdown. What. To. Wonderful TORONTO. This is actually my first time in Toronto. Thank. You thank you for having me. I'm born and raised in New, York and I hear that. The Toronto is the New York of Canada so. Yeah, you guys are ambitious. It was a trick I'm sorry. My first time. Here was my first time getting. A nuclear alert on my father. And, then it was my first time getting an apology. Nuclear. You know what's so crazy about it is. The alerts both were thin so early in the morning. I didn't wake up until about two o'clock this afternoon. Because my phone is always on silent. So when I woke up, I was like Oh. My God I could die. Oh, no I can't died. Then I realized you'd already be dead. You were lay. Happy to be here. It is cold it. It is very cold. I'm happy. I got my braids my hair. Yeah, I'm happy guys on board with this. This is something doesn't seem like white people understand. All the years in all the black women. You guys are still like but have. Gone through like so many different hairstyles like I remember. I had a shaved tae like completely shaved and I loved it, but what I didn't know was I women who saw me? They put so much pressure on me like mijas having a shea take. They were like yea, you put the female. On Your Back Like they will come up to me, so inspired like wow, you must feel so free so spiritually lifted as like. It was Tuesday and I didn't feel like doing my hair. So shaved it off. This one woman she didn't stop, she was like, but you must feel so. Empowered I was like Orleans. She has one. Then I had an Afro I still have Afro when it's not like. This is an Afro which I absolutely love. The Afro is very like militant. You know from New York. I wear all black, an Afro, a look like a protests for fine. People. Like what are you doing today? I'm like looking for corporation a boycott. Afros like you know so strong like the image of it when you think about like a black woman with an Afro. You Think Angela Davis you think powerful women. Yeah Yeah, like sometimes it just doesn't help with like my dating lines. Like sometimes I think I look too strong for guys like a guy who see me and think like I'm attracted to her, but. She looks like she reads books. She looks like. If we had sex, I'd have to respect her in the morning. Like yes, you do. Very hard to be a Ho with an Afro. Tried it I've tried to send like late night to guys like booty call. I'm like hey, you are they like? Yeah, somebody gets shot. Is there march to Mike? I'm like no I'm just trying to suck up the me right on my. Okay. Let's go march. I actually I remember when I had to shave dated a barber. Shaved head and I. Don't know what came first, but it happens. And, of course, I didn't pay for him to cut my hair. Because in my mind I was like listening I can't pay you thirty dollars to cut my hair in the you take me to the movies with my thirty dollars. And I know. I know that. That sounds unfair, right? But. I think that there are so many more. Unleash your things in the world like I think it's unfair. The for women like people used our age against us. You know like society. All over the world has made a woman answer. How old are you like this? How will do I look? And inside. We're like. Please say younger than I am. But I think like at every age. We should be proud like. I love saying thirty five I love it. It's especially because like human trafficking is so high right now. They are taking these young girls. And it's scary. But I'm thirty. I've never felt more say. When a white van pulls next to my car I'm like I'm thirty five. The kidnappers like Oh, I'm so sorry. Mike. That's up polite criminal. Iran job pass somebody. I'm happy all left because. She was like I. Get it, but don't tell. Clearly. I don't listen. I'm hardheaded. That's what my mom would say. I feel like my mom is like the ultimate seminaries. My mom had thirteen kids yet. I should say any fan, my mom, my parents have thirteen kids. Like, my mom did all the work, so she should get the credit. I personally feel like thirteen is too much. I'm the fifth kid and I feel like she could have stopped at four. You have any friends. Feel like a good girlfriend would have been like girl you doing too much. A lot of kids lack thirteen this too many. We grew up in New York. We grew up Muslim any Muslims. That's only. Did you get weird? Feel like the Muslims were like. Is this okay in anonymous? We're like. Is this okay? It's okay. My, my mom, it's so funny. My last name is Johnson Right which Abby Johnson don't really go together. Zane Abbas various lawmakers a very Islamic name Middle Eastern men get excited when they hear my name. They get excited like Z. Z.. Cause it catches them off guard. They're like yeah. That's a black woman in the Zidane APP. That is my mother's name. It's an esteemed name. Johnson doesn't go with NAP. Save me like when I'm going through TSA. Airport security. Thank God for the John. I think they look at the APP they're like. Should we stopper? Johnson Oh, she's probably just going to Atlanta. which probably and So, here's the thing so thirteen a buzz. Half of us are named Johnson but the other half are Abdulrahim. which is a Muslim last name? Right? So here's what happened. My parents converted right before we were ever born, but like halfway into the kids my parents were like. Let's legally change our names. So they go to city hall in New York in, go and say hey, we're Muslim. We want to change our kids names in the lady behind a desk. That's wonderful. It's going to cost a trillion dollars. How Muslim are you? My parents were like we'll just start new with the rest of the. Now it's like a feud between the siblings like whenever my little sister does. Something like I dunno, she's an Abdul Rahim. Their brains. Our lows in second grade when my mom had the tenth kid. An ounce like this gotTa stop. I didn't know if my dad was like making her. I'm like Mommy Blink twice. We'll get you out of here. But? No, my mom wanted twenty. I feel like you just said a prayer for her vagina. You ooh! Like a he man lab. Asked. My Mom tooks time. When I was in second grade. I have no idea how found out about two time. Second Grade. I must've been so fed up that in front of a bunch of encyclopedias and like there has to be an answer. Or maybe I overheard like the Gossiping. Lunch ladies they Miss Johnson roles one mortal. In the free lunch program. I'm GonNa take a clinic myself. I don't know how I found out, but we're not did great. There's a solution in Iran home to my mom and I. was like mom. Get your tubes tied, and my mother said the craziest thing to me. She says Ena baby. I'm not going to get. My tubes tied me your father. We might not make it I'm going to marry another man and I'm going to have his children. I was like. This chick is confident. I was like. I'm GonNa have to break the to my mom. That's not how dating words. Are No eligible bachelors out the looking for divorce day with ten dependent. Like I'm so sorry. You GotTa stay with Daddy. You have to stay. I am Muslim which I like. I didn't like it as a kid. It didn't make sense to me. I was in school with a bunch of non-muslim kids and it just. I remember going home to my mom. One year in saying mom something happens. They put up a tree and then people get gifts. And then like a couple of months later, something happens with a rabbit and some eggs and get more gifts. I was like you make us not eat thirty day. And then we one. I'm just I just want to know who chose this guy? Like! Where's religion human resources? Who Can I talk to? Change. Now's adult though I really. Really love it. My love fasting during Ramadan. tricked. It makes my skin look amazing. Like Yay like you know five pillars, but I mean the skin. I WanNa hear Guy, but I wanNA glow. This one woman she stopped me during Ramadan Wayne. Yeah, she's like I am so sorry. What do you use on your skin? And I was like God. You should try. Actually I went to court a little while ago. I had to testify for my brother. And took the stand, the bailiff said to me he said Miss Johnson, out of respect your religious beliefs. You don't have to swear on the Bible. You can affirm on another book and I had no idea that they did that. All episodes of law and order. I watched I never saw that. I was like. Thank you so much. I was like that so considerate. Thank you so much I was like you bring any book you want I. Don't plan on telling the truth anyway. Thank you. Back I'm sorry that's not why I came here. I came here to get him out so. I promise to tell you what I practice. Matter of fact. Since. I'm going to be lying. Go ahead. Bring out the Bible. That is always the respond. Oh Now hold on just. Now do love being Muslim I just don't like when people try and convert me. I don't like it. I used to argue with my ex boyfriend. He used to say to me all the time I really WANNA. Marry you, but I need you to be Christian. And I really WANNA marry you too, but I need you to be financially stable. Grew Up. Whoever makes the most money that's who chooses the religion? Guys thank you. Just a quick break in the podcast to say that we have patron now. Because we used to be able to sell tickets to events. We never asked the audience for help before, but now in order to keep making the podcast. We need your help. If you join Patriot from as little as two pounds fifty a month, you'll get some extra content and goodies and lasting appreciation. If you'd like to support us to try dot com slash guilty feminist every day at six PM Bridge Summertime, I do the new normal on instagram live at the guilty feminist with some incredible guests, and you can see the ones. We've already done on instagram television. Television or youtube if you like, make a video for you off one of your friends for their birthday or a pep, talk or anniversary anything like that. Please go to the cameo up and find me. All of the proceeds go to choose love, help refugees, and so far. We've made about three grand for them, so we're very excited. Please keep it coming and now back to the podcast. Up just asked know was going to get light comedy club. They give you a like say. Hey, you got two minutes after whatever your time's up and then another one to say your time's totally out, but. I really can't run a show. Where mom at the back of the room shines a light in a woman space, which means shut the fuck on. saw. You just reminded me of something. So you're like, did I? Have time to say. Okay, so last night I was at a comedy club did four shows at comedy pro. Bar. I hope they're not in here. So, I did my first day I got stage in a male comedian in the back of the show like you should say this. If only He say you should say this. He was like you should say. The Toronto is like New York except you guys still have all your buildings. What. Yeah! He thought he was giving me a good Joe. And so my reaction, you know how you lean in. And did exactly what you. The I just gave him silence I was like. Okay so then the next show I. GO UP ON STAGE. Tell the story and I tell the joke he say in the audience responded the same way. And, I was like yeah, that was my response. I'm happy now that he knows he's terrible. Alsan, but then a nerve of him. You know that would be enough to make any may go home and reevaluate his life, right? He comes to me after the second show. This is going on. Tell me he says. He says that was so funny when you talked about me. It's much more than what I. Thought I thought he was going to say I. Don't think you landed at. Bryant is the way you deliver it. What he said was. It was even better than the crash. Joke that I. Gave you you were talking about me? That's all I heard. People hurt me, and then they made a har- noise. I'm somehow funny. Wow Wow. Wow, wow, wow! Wow. Wish I knew his name, so we can really tear them apart. I kind of love that you don't have what his. I don't know but how to name. Yeah, he did it's. Was that chain of comedy clubs called the Comedy Ball. Yeah, that's like breakfast television. That's what it is is. Company in. What should we call it the gigafactory? The last house. I don't think it needs that kind of embellishments. Let's call it the comedy ball. We'll have to ties it on breakfast television. To have any more things like that that we should know about it's like. Wow. Anything else. A to name. It's just like literal. Beer store. Like school like going to school knows store Oh. You WanNa. Buy Beer got a beer store. He's not. Literally Astore. Wow Oh, Kinda. You go to get a little bit more poetical. Too Literal! I like the simplicity of name you know. Sometimes we get too complicated like if you see like a sign is, there's like anchor, stand and is like. Do you sell shirts or coffee? What do you do? You not like sometimes. They try to make it to abstract and it's like yeah tom down. Take a leaf out of Canada's maple. Just say what you see, yeah so. We should probably bring gasol. Guest. Today is a writer activist on psychotherapist. Her ancestry is Indian and she was born. In Zambia, she became interested in community organized a teen. She dealt with environmental issues. Gender Vonnas. LGBTQ plus rights and She now works with we speak out a global group that is working to Bam Female Genital Kathy in her W. Borough community, but she also works with the end FGM Canada network. She has a book counts about FGM's not yet, but you can pre-order it at its cold seven. Please put your hands together. Incredible woohoo ignores. Falls on talk. Firstly, just our fight, you and also Dr. Doctors Your Surname Nas name. We say surname here. In America, you know what now I'm feeling a bit Canadian last name. The name that comes less. We, we actually say both because we're dominated by the US as well as England. Hours. So we useful both it's a double colony situation, ask. Isn't that what you apologize much because there's two forces. I think probably I don't know. Why do we apologize so much? Somebody told me that somebody told me Canadians apologize too much more than the Brits. scholley not and they were like it's. It's a bad habit for sure I. think it helps with your feminism to minimize, but what I will say, sometimes people say you should never apologize. You should not. A part is as a woman shouldn't have as. You've poured hot coffee into somebody's. Absolutely should. If you just think I've been a bit of a joke, actually you should apologize, but you should apologize with intention warmly once you should not default apologize. That's what I would say to all Canadians and as. And, as feminists, we need to learn how to apologize. Very well, you know we make so many mistakes and we need to. We need to know how to do that I think we're often afraid of apologizing of saying. We're sorry and we need to learn how to do that when it's really appropriate, so could you tell us a bit about the end of GM, Canada network and we speak out, yes, so. The End F GMC Canada network is a brand. New Network just started last year in in March. We launched, and it's a group that formed because there really needs to be. Coordination of the very few and GM efforts that do exist in Canada Canada has been pretty silent on this issue. Very different from other countries like the UK is pretty great in all of the various initiatives at has in terms of like training doctors and social workers and teachers about this issue and doing lots of prevention work anyway, so in Canada we don't have much of that, and so that's been formed, and we're looking for. Members also want people to follow us on twitter at. Canada F GM. So that's the network, and then we speak out is one of the members of the network, and we speak out is very close to my heart, because I joined this organization in two thousand fifteen, and in two thousand, fifteen was a time in India when Bora feminists I'm from a community called Dougherty Boras, which most people don't know anything about very small, insular cult-like I'm not allowed to say that, but I'm going to cut like community. There's an orthodoxy that is quite cult-like. Feminists from this community were speaking out about a form of FGM that our community unfortunately practices, and I got involved, and I'm so proud to be part of that group. I'm a survivor of that form of female genital cutting, and it was so important to meet other feminists who could talk about this issue to make sense of all of these issues, and it eventually inspired the novel seven. I could you tell us a little bit about seven? Yeah, so seven is about this forty year old women who goes to India on a marriage saving trip with her husband and there's a huge saving trip. It's like marriages, rookie, bit rocky, sexist kwait lukewarm There's been some infidelity on her part, and they go Arman loving this books. To. How much do you go into the infidelity on her part? I'M GONNA I'M GONNA rewrite it for you and put more in. Excellent, so I'm going to get a different edition. Just off your lap, talk show and. Of. Chapters more like fifty shades of grey. That's right. That's right. And so. She goes to India thinking that she's going to be doing research about her great great grandfather, but she ends up uncovering bigger deeper family secrets, and she's she's Indian send yes, so that she goes to India the time when all of this stuff is exploding in the community around. FDIC and she has a cousin who's on one side of the debate and another cousin who's on the other in our community. We have people on both sides of the debate. There are actually activists who are like. Fighting for their right to continue FDIC so I have her having cousins on both sides, and she has to figure out her position. Yeah, so lay Hussein. Who's been on the show? She says she won't debate that. She's a victim Jim well and she says she wanted with anyone in Britain I don't know. Is this the same in America in Canada that on breakfast television? or Any television show? They say we've got to have somebody on for balance and she says would. You wouldn't have a paedophile on for balance, and it's violence, so I won't debate. Anybody who advocates violence against children. I will debate or discuss with family members with individuals who? Want to have a conversation, but. The time, the people who are on the other side or just like Internet trolls. I think to historically there was this kind of. Cultural relativism thing that was going around especially in feminist circles and people were very afraid that especially white women were really afraid that if they spoke about this issue, they would be seen as racist. But I? Think what we really need to understand the thing that I really want feminist to understand. Is That F.? F. G. M. is like. It's not this weird thing. That like weird people do. It's part of a continuum of sexual violence. It's a way of controlling women's and girls' and non binary sexuality and bodies, and it's not that different than what he says. Yes, and it's not that different from. Rape Culture or femicide right? It's just part of the same continuum of garbage, so we need to find her. So we need traditional Goldsmiths, Cole. How can we help? What can we do? Thank you very much. How can we help because you have this organization? The end GM Canada network. How can we want to help with them, I think. We need to start seeing this as a regular issue, so I'm going to get to that in a second, but I just want to say. This is an issue that affects something like two hundred million people on the planet well and every eleven seconds many is cut a call. We need to say a prayer for all of us right now. Oh. So. It's so commonplace that it's probably affecting like someone in your school. Someone at your job. Someone in your neighborhood so first of all you need to see it like that, and then you need to question why the hell do we not have a national action plan in Canada to deal with this? And then once you question that then you will WanNa. Join Organization and get involved in some of our activities. So I would think reading the novel would be great way into understanding the full issue. Thanks so to. Show both you and your publisher agree. Now we come preorder the book. If we go to be it bit dot, l. y. Ford Slash order seven and I. Think what you said about white people. Going I can't talk about that. It's racist. It's. Anything that feels cultural, but Layla Hussein who comes on the show a lot. She always says it's not cultural. It's violent. You wouldn't. If you heard your neighbor being beaten up, he wouldn't go well. It's cultural. It's likely you would just say. Someone's being violent to somebody. The other thing is that we're now beginning to understand that it happens on every continent. Except maybe Antarctica there was this beautiful survivor name. Reneberg's Traum who's a white Christian American who started speaking out a few years ago and so we also believe that this happens, but it's just not talked about it so taboo, but it's happening amongst white Christians. It's everywhere and so it's all of our issues. Do. You have anything to plug that? He would like us to follow. Look at watch. Listen to read. About. Well Yeah. I'm going to double down I'd like people to read seven. And we have to make. Up! We have to follow you know. Oh, I was going to get to me. Just think feminist. Saying you're welcome on my door. This room. You guys can of course follow me on any social media site except facebook. I hate it. Cut that out but I. do hate it. LEAVE IT IN F. You say Johnson almo listings year without taking a long time to get to it. No, no, no. I just wanted to make sure they knew how does. Zane Johnson. And Johnson not. Just some. Out doesn't and I have a podcast actually? Yeah that you guys can listen to wherever you listen to podcasts. Honest tea with Z. But. Honesty is Spell H. O.. N. S. T. A.. We, prefer honest, head with said. Just. How Roller in these POPs? Whatever you put in a search engine to bring up my voice do it. Excellent we will and also must all watch out for this new television show, which is by the creator of the American office. What is it about? Half. I don't know if I'm allowed to say, but we want X. Place. And it's called upload and in this future world instead of maybe going to. The ideas that maybe you don't die and go to heaven. Maybe we go into these virtual. Heaven! I hope you are an obstacle because you just have. It's very interesting. It's a funny look into the very close future. WHO. We all that. Did you hear that? We'll. Find out if you're allowed to say it, and if you put it out on the okay, that will intrigued many okay. Is there anything else that you came to say? Fasano that she didn't leave on the table that you need us to know. Do. You have anything else. I wanted to do. I'm a feminist by Oh. You know I. Kinda feel like. This is not that I'm going to. This is my preamble. So that you'll be nice to me and laugh because I kind of feel like. When I grow up I'd like to be a standup comedian because they're so smart and like Quique, you know it takes me for years to write a novel anyway. So, we would love to write a novel just to be clear. It's so respectable. I. I really right and my mother would be so proud of you. Does she love that. You have a book out now. She I mean. You know I mean we call of the PODCAST, but like she's like. Oh. You do. Okay. I'm a feminist, but. I watch a lot of bad television kind of as a pallet cleanser at the end of the day and I feel bad about that because I feel like I could be listening to more feminist podcasts or reading more feminists, books, or even watching more feminist porn. I don't even watch feminist porn I end up watching a gazillion episodes of friends. Which I? Do. You have a favorite episode of friends. I feel like it's just noise in the background. Frankly just bull is how you do. Could I be any dated? You know I've been watching it like a second time around because it came out. What in the ninety s which is the first time around every Thursday night was friends and Seinfeld right? It's a big deal we congregate around. Yeah! And I'm kind of feeling like I. Really Relate to Phoebe this time around and I didn't before I've become a lot more phoebe like over time, so I watched her very closely. Oh, that's interesting. Who did you relate to the first ever net none of them? Have such great lights. It was like Oh. Day Week month when the company had friends had friends. They thought they had. It's. I'm like. Be More. You'll take your week your month or read the New Year. Constantly date a stream of incredibly good looking people. What you want. You have rent control. It's been your your old white. It's tell you. You're all white. You're all straight. Come on I, mean if it had gone on much longer, one of the would come out. Actually. They did a lot of hinting that phoebe kinky. Did anybody else notice that. There's so many references to be and spanking. If you watch it like. Someone to make montage of them all. She's a Kingston. Did, you have a favorite friend. Yeah. It was cottage on living single. Very Sad. Very you know what I was GonNa, say though. When the OH was. What else can we do? What can we do to help? This is especially since we're talking about television. Feel free to cut this out, but I just wanted to say this. Re Not, maybe the last season of orange is the new black. Do charges the new blind. They're a major storyline had to do with F.. Shiny yes, and I thought that it was so great that they. Brought awareness to in that medium, and I think that when they do stuff like that, tell stories that are not normally toll especially within a bigger story if we. In comment and write. We notice it then. They'll do it more and they'll. include. Things in like mainstream things that we watch, which a lot of people learn from, tell you know a lot of people get all of their information from the shows that they watch. That's a really good point. And I always think if we don't support female driven drama. They just say L. See. A female driven drama doesn't work. Yeah, what they never do. If a male driven showed bombs, they never go well. That shows about men out. They never make that assessment. No, absolutely if a female superhero movie bombs. It's like we'll is no more female superhero movies for twenty five years. If a male superhero movie bombs, they give that same man who made it twice the budget. And say we're sorry. It was our fault for giving you two hundred million dollars when we clearly going to four dollars. It's a true story. Texas? Tower! My concern was that this dress and Iran run this positive. Saying backstage, I was worried. Distressed was a bit handmaid's wife. Do you know what I mean. Dude anyone's think that wouldn't be like. We didn't think she'd be so handmaid's. You want to know what my response was I was like I'd never seen an episode. which wasn't helpful because she she doesn't. But then that's an pitcher. That was like you make thing, and doesn't she? It's new the best people to see it so. Also done anything. Because the water. Bottles here now. Yes so. Thank you very much again. The Wonderful Kobo Dot Com, your local digital bookshop, offering books, audiobooks and e-readers. What are you GonNa? Buy Great Big old pile of feminist box right now. A huge, thank you to our amazing patrons who have supported this podcast at the smash, the patriarchy, level, or above Sarah, Belcher Var Remar Jonquil Koi Sarah Brown Sarah Boom and Ruby Rose Thompson.

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210. Being Hands on with Cal Wilson and special guest Jackie Clark

The Guilty Feminist

55:51 min | 4 months ago

210. Being Hands on with Cal Wilson and special guest Jackie Clark

"This episode of the guilty feminist is brought to you by the satirical novel Fleishman is in trouble by taffy predessor achna available now in paperback. I am a feminist, but. Today when I arrived in Auckland. I plan to go to the Oakland Lesbian Museum. Big Fan of the lesbian and Oakland there. But instead I just had a nap and looked at ruby roses instagram stories. It's the same as a celebrity similar similar similar. Has Anyone beat lesbian? Receive An. I didn't know the. Museum. Oh, yeah, I do research when I come to town. I'm not just talking about like an old folks home. That's predominantly. visit this. That'd be lovely. I'll tell you. We've thrown musician all the way from the UK Grace Petri. She's standing in the wings right now. She's not happy. She's not happy with what cal just said. ooh, she's. She's doing a museum. What what? How Tell me, there's a Lesbian Museum I'll tell you. I will take you tomorrow. Thank you, yes. If you would like to see if you'd like to meet Grace Petri Person Hang Out Lesbian Museum all day tomorrow. Window of time, but I can't tell you she will be in that. I watched I thought grace was going to say she was angry at you because you didn't think it was a good idea, this was my idea. I. Think Gracia Call Fence the patriarchy. Deborah. polluted. Well I just worry about starting any other keys. He's haven't been good in the history of. The human race. Shoutout a good ocoee? Matron King you go to Chez guilty feminist. Go to matriarch. Okay, it's still a power base. SORTA Bash. It's run by dogs and it's like a party. Keep. Hockey. Come. Back. Or a ball coupon admit. Does sound like a wonderful of government. was sometimes. When I moved to the bone at the park. Would have, dogs. Out, of interest. I wanted to say anything to the Balki pocket, but that's not true. That's a real thing. I see what Beats Lesbian Museum. What is it? The Lesbian? Museum people have been shoutout. Host really good postcards. Is, that's what the gift shop you sound, so you've been to the gift shop bothered with the museum. We've all done either judgeship, but have you been to the actual museum? About Lesbians, but it still sounds like we picked on the gift show. Does anyone know though what's in the lesbian? Museum genuinely. Still. We're all going tomorrow. This outrageous Oakland we've got so many contaminants in here tonight. They don't even know where it is. It's all around us. Look this you wanting to the roof there on top of the building. We just have to climb will find a lesbian museum main. The thing about lesbians is they know where it is. Rican. The bill is Lisbon Museum. Themselves taken the Senate. What was. New. Gillis or are you looking at? We're all going tomorrow everyone here. So. What does it open. Saudi somebody wants to fool. Very limited this. Betts Betts Lesbians. Boundaries. HASHTAG consent. Feminist but we're not hit a spear out of this afternoon. I thought I could get a hit on my rushing for tomorrow night's famous show or could dye my hair. Dyed my hair. I'm a feminist, but sometimes my own tour jetlag and general fatigue makes me think. Do we meet to smash the? Patriot Q. could be just lie heavily on IT, caution. The energy for smashes all smashing. Exhausting. Just like maybe the patriarch is actually like a water bid, and you just need to puncture it, and then it self But if the paycheck waterbed I would like a nice nap on it first. Then I would be thinking about. The type plumes the growing inside it. Is that what happens if waterbeds? Someone told me that wants no. Forget it. It's about the Blackie Paki. On the feminist, but when I had to go to a new doctor the other day for ut I when she asked me what she could help me with tuned into a prudish nineteen fifties, housewife, and instead of going. As! Well, my son was that his grandparents this weekend and my husband and I were rob active. We had relations. Did you use the word? No, I didn't I didn't that I did I. Think we hit too much and it just like Oh showing off. I am a feminist, but if I had to choose between a nights with famous fictitious misogynist Don Draper for madman. Al-Baraka Obama. I would go with Don Draper. He would never call would make me feel bad about myself because I'd never do anything to jeopardize barack, shows marriage. Is what I'd tell myself. I'm the thinnest, but we're not couldn't get on the Wi fi at the theater tonight. I complained to produce Jif and when he stood next to me. The Password suddenly worked I was unreasonably angry. I'm reasonably angry. Live from the Q. Santa. Shop presents the. Process Lines. Yes, caused how? Special guests gall talking about being. This is the guilty feminists the podcast in which weeks on moguls, twenty-first-century century feminists in the apocrypha securities which undermine them today I'm with Cal Wilson and we are talking about big. On How Long you count. I'm good I'm here, so do you feel that you are hands on feminist ordeal? That's Hong like. Do you feel like you've got a little responsibilities? You've got a big career. You've got a kid and I know that within that. You're always trying to be hands on as a feminist. Do you feel like you get a chance to be hands on away from those things? Did you find opportunities within those things? You're raising a male feminists. He doesn't it, but that's the agenda. The Trojan horse is dead. It out either I think generally the Guti feminist has made me more. Hands on a bat feminism. I think sometimes I'm still like sort of carrying feminism around an oven gloves on the need to. And just go here is the hot. THING OF FEMINISM! What a great metaphor! I'm so glad I started this. What thrust of burning district feminism instruments. And have them dropping a go. It is is. It's exactly what was going I talked my son a lot better quality and I talked to him about consent like he's only team, but talk to him about how. I Y youthful. That was weird. I've talked to a friend at school. Who was trying to get a girl to do something she didn't want to? Do is like you to up for here. No one ever has to do anything that someone's trying to get them to kiss and I was like you don't have to kiss anyone that you don't to, and she doesn't have to Cassini on it. You don't want to and thought it was a food stiffen going everybody should have a good time with their own bodies in their own time with that other people going. You should kiss in the playground. There are all sorts of ways that we can teach all children, no matter their agenda to be more consensual, even just in terms of coercing. Children so coercive. To our children and that is part of childhood growing up and learning to negotiate and letting, but I think we can be more proactive in terms of our ability to get them to send. Me and it you don't, but some of that means that we have to drop some of the coercion that we put on them while still training to be good people and getting their fucking. She's on getting out the door on time, and so it's very difficult because parenting coercion. It's bribery. It's you know how mothers start and I was when I was growing up. I thought when I am a parent I'm GONNA ask really nicely I'm going to be like. Whatever put shoes. I don't know why parents have to be put her shoes on. Bart's when I become a nanny. I understood why and it's because you say shoes on. We're going to put the shoes. Let's make fun game shoes on all. We've get out the door now. We're going to get a couple of minutes, but shoes on. Let's see who can have erased. The I put their shoes on. Can you put shoes on? Please be grateful she's on. She's on. Please put your shoes on at eventually. Start that because. You pay. You haven't got time. And that's why parents are as they are. It's not their fault. I. was having flashbacks is used. Let stuff to me like what started saying things. When mom seats me. Yeah, and then I'm like Oh shit, I'm doing I'm doing doing your bobby I'm. Barbara but we call the because she doesn't like it. Consent. She's adorable. This has nothing to do with this. This is tiny, so she gets her woods. Just confusing. It's not getting older anything. She's confused. She said to me the other day. Oh you know what he's like. He could talk the hind leg off an iron pot. I haven't been able to stop thinking about it. And what was it a caudron situation like? What is happening? So. An example of hands on feminism. Is You saying to your son? Right will year yes. I Don. Don't touch people. We don't want to be touched. That's the thing let's say Sean. Don't touch anyone. They don't WanNa be touched, and if you don't want to be touched, only one touch you the hard thing that I find is I want him to be absolutely happy and fine with his body, but at the same time. Sometimes you have to wear pants like. And it sort of been framing framing. There is I. Don't want him to be shamed of himself, but you know if the doorbell rings, we should be at least a little bit closed. I was really ethical slot has. Some ethical slots in. What up a very interesting book about monogamy, and the nature of getting everything from one person that kind of thing, and it says we all have some shame around sex, because even if your parents were super, Super Super Liberal. They had to teach you that grownup people masturbate in the bedroom, not in the living room. We've all a certain shame around sex. Because we all know at some point, we've got to shut the door. And I thought this. I never thought of that before. That there is a certain amount of. go to deal with this on my own time. Yes, so it's no appropriate. Private! Private time to US sales yeah. Very similar to what happened in a show that I was doing recently or is talking about how appearance Tila children that would a pit dies. Some parents say Oh, it's gone to the farm like. flicky gone to the farm kind of thing rather than saying that died, and I was talking to one and the audience whose dog had died when she was eight and I said. When did you realize he hadn't really gone to the farm? And she said it was fourteen, and I rang the farm and they'd never heard of him. So appearance have gone to the trouble of nominating. Afam and she felt embarrassed about having been sold to. We could ask and over the guy, just kind of doubled over shrieking with laughter you right and he goes I'm thirty five. I'm just working out now. Like, he was having revelation at that moment, and I see trump. Look what I want people to have their phones on my shy, but I'm happy for you to call your mom like you can. Call her now. And he turned it down, but after the show he sent me screen shot at the conversation that hedge, and it was just who apologizing for every animal. I'm very excited to tell you about this week sponsor. Fleishman is in trouble, a brilliant satirical novel with a lot of guilty feminist themes around marriage, divorce and modern love. By one of the most exciting voices in American fiction taffy predessor ACHNA. The book was a Sunday Times and New York Times bestseller. It was long listed for the women's prize for Fiction and the National Book Award an Alfred Dolly Alderson called it the most astonishingly brilliant in horse of novel Marian. Keyes said it was wildly entertaining and moving and Grace Dent said it could be one of the books of my entire lifetime. I've never felt so seen. I cannot wait to buy this book in paperback and devour it while in lockdown. You can get it from Worcester, NHS or your local independent bookshop owner wherever you regularly buy your books, but don't miss it Fleishman. Is In trouble, and you'll be in trouble if you don't pick it up. You know what everyone else is talking about I'm now back to the podcast. ZATA carbonate. Plays! The. Particularly, practical person I'm purely for decorative purposes. I realized in most of my life, but once they had a child I had to start. Getting hands on with. Things and children are very good way to show you. You can do stuff. You didn't think you could, and you can lower your standards. Follow of any thought. Was Possible I. I remember the moment. My son was six months old and I sit at to. My husband is just a way I think I can go to the supermarket and this top. Not Something I would normally say. And you got your experiences with your kids that you probably wouldn't put up with from someone else like for example, my son is the only person in the world that I would even allow to vomit in my eyes. I mean I'm sure I. could earn money off it on some weird porn channel, but. His vomit is and we still have a relationship. That's how much I love him. But. You're not prepared for so one night. My husband was way things always happen. When my husband goes away, my son was that two and a half in a sore knee, but it was time to go to bed, and so I tucked them into. Be gets important because poor poor fix. Everything got new vet. Appointment that are just bored is at sixty liters of poor poor. It meant and I got some poor at and I put on a Sony Ego. Near your Sony's on, you can go off to sleep so I tucked him in a secret, not in a lift the grow, and then ten minutes. Just check on. Them can't see that he's alright in I paid into the room in the Cloonan. Could sort of my count that he was sitting on the edge of his bid, and he appeared to be shimmering slightly. Turn on the light, and he was sitting there covered from the top of his head. To the soles of his feet in poor -pointment. He looked like he'd been buttered. And he was sitting on the edge of the bed, blinking at me like sort of. Because? He had point in his issues as well, and it was so unexpected all I could do was just laugh my ass off. I just stood there and laughed at this little Cherie. Ghanem, that was just sort of sitting there. And I asked him what had happened, and he goes off. My name was so it puts some more on an in an extra, and then he just go on the whole. He used three quarters of the new jar of poor poor, and I didn't know where to start to deal with it like because there was poor poor on those poor poor and the CAP, those poor on the sheets was poor poor on the walls in Israel poor handprints everywhere like sort of adorable crime sane. and. Of just so helpless with lots just stood for a few moments in the. Deal, with the shape, and changed his sheets and I got just enough of the poor off the walls that all the dust stuck to it for ever more, and then I deal with him, and I'm of the exist poor poor often, but then I just had to run the rest of it in. So it was like it was conditioning early. The handbag and it was just. Like, he was so supple afterwards he will last for years. I got them all relatively clean. And I tucked him back into being a good night I could not near in I. Lift the broom and it was still. Laughing to myself went down the Hawaii but I had neglected to make the connection that children alike comedians. And a few laugh at something they do. They will do it again. And, so I parked my head in the room and he's used the rest of the jar. He's sitting on the side of his beat again, doing little buttery golden thing, but this time he's like today. And this is why have lovely soft hands? And, probably the time of being the most hands on as apparent. Neglected him in every other way. It does sound a lot like that, but I know that's not true. He's pretty good, although whereas now. He's playing by school with is dead. Be Fine has to win. He's a lot taller. And why love about your relationship is that? His Dad is the precarious. Yeah, which I think is so great, because it's representation for all of the kids he plays with so they'll be little boys going. Oh I'd love to be a full time when I grow up and if if you don't see it, you done that heavens no! CONFUSION COMES FROM WIND DIG describes it. So he tells people that Mommy does shows which could be anything. And who knows I'm branching out. But he also doesn't. He doesn't notice that Chris. Works from home, so Chris Works as well, but he works from home in so when people ask what has dead. Does Digby goes? He Plays Golf. Wow, so they think better professional I just think he's swans about. Oh, I see. That's what women have had for years is swimming baths? Oh, she just has lunch that taught women have had for years, and in fact she is the CEO of a charity or something works from three days a week at home and six days a week in the office and you know, and it's a nine day week. I mean we knew? Al Guests today's started the anti seven years ago, coordinating donations for a refugee organization using social media, since then she has gone on to win. Supreme Woman of influence, twenty eighteen, and has been awarded a cure sm in years on his the has become an organization well known for their no nonsense, no judgment brand of getting stuff to people who need it, and for using the model to bring people together to support each other. Please welcome to the stage the incredible Jackie. Hello, hello. Hello Jackie! Take a seat. It is so wonderful to have you here now. We've got another global listeners, and they want what the is. So can you explain what the is well global looseness? There's a woman who lived or still living in what we would call to be vonts, and all the manifestations of that physical emotional. Mind fuck very well, it's. In. Dive decided that they ready to heal. Sometimes, they've list relationship most of the time. Davis relationship. Sometimes they haven't and it's just us. Facilitating. To resources that I made in removing my particular, big thing is removing barriers and I don't know there is a cartoon here in New Zealand. A better rugby playing fields, and that when a child is born, you know there's a fence. Some my job is to remove the fuck convenes. Could you give us some examples of barriers? So for example causes a really big thing you know, and the one I whether musty, mighty woman and. There is a specific weight with a lot of people every year doing different things with them, but there's a specific fan of women of at twenty five to forty women. Who've decided to stick around and we have kind of familial relationship, and they decide what that looks like not me inside. It's emotional, support material support, what have you and today? One of them takes, and she called me Jackie Boo and she checking my contract where we do because we've already paid five hundred bucks to fix what was wrong with it, and now it's not siphon. It's shattering when she drives us and ongoing Donald, we don't have enough money. Did you not sounds really big money, and but we'll? We'll figure it out together. because. That's how people found they power when the headaches, too resources edge, there aren't too many barriers win. There's as many barriers as they have been in these women's lives, and they women who've grown up and really underresourced community. Seth opens as I call. It deliberately underresourced I. Don't use the word poverty because. That's a systemic thing. Says off. Various. Can you tell us some other barriers that make it very difficult for women to get out of situations in which they're experiencing violence and coercion. Can help with. Well. I didn't leave a twenty eight years in my husband dies, and that's how I lifted. He lift me. And I loved him a lot, but he was an abusive perk, and it's the worst of the abuse. He didn't touch physically. In so I always say I'm the face of domestic violence and New Zealand. 'cause that's most what it looks like. as white middle class woman like me and I know that because I get hundreds of emails every yet from woman like me. Yeah in so sorry. What was your question? I've lost. More out of the barriers to for people leaving. The arts the to. Somebody's living in a relationship really, that's abusive in few of the woman. Have just made to now. That really is about walking alongside them for long enough through everything and I have worked with a couple of the partners as well and hit conversations about directions and stuff and people who are abusive, normally China these stripes. But these women have got a dream in style attached the dreams, the person the worth, and it's really hard to leak of the train and I don't know I think. I've been taught at this wandering twenty five women here mostly woman so I'm GonNa. Tell you right now that the states will tell you the food of you live abusive relationships, and that state is incorrect at four hundred windy of you. Probably around just under half of you that have or still are an all the manifestations of what abuse looks like so. The way that we would that I work because I'm the one who does the frontline stuff. As just I just woke alongside them and the air and I'm there and I'm there I'm there? I'm there and. Sometimes I get frustrated I. Get frustrated and just some come. They come to really because that's the biggest barrier. You're controlling relationship when people say, what are you leave? You know it's like they're controlling relationship you sick, but also you know I. See I did a live on our facebook page this morning I celebrate woman anybody interviews relationship I don't say. Why don't you leave I? Say how the fact that you do that. It's amazing. You not because there are so many various debates, and for the women that I particular there are financial barriers these the hanging onto the dream You know it's a really really huge one in. It's from years of talking talking talking to them about that and getting that across and I listen to me because I've lived in it and I know what it looks like and I'm a very privileged Kussin. Because I was brought up in a family right, but like that and I swear a lot and I used to drive a Shitty Karen. I smart as well but. It's quite. So had a women find you like. How do they online mostly? So the woman who are the close? Fan I've been working with some of them for even using some of them for a year and I find me that message me through facebook or takes me because my phone numbers out there and I just. By referrers woman so about three or four, the woman have been referred by the woman who are going to draw. It causes a workshops of some kind instead that this woman and I really like you to contact here, and is that I've. And I we'll first of all she okay with. Like a she really for the. Because I really really fast, and if she's not ready for that, it's pretty harmful so I'm trying to make sure people are really fist to tangle with us. Miss of Menopausal, fucking deep nece. I'm pretty fearless. Guess I I'm famous, but I still blame my loss of memory on the and I've been through the me to pause for quite a number of ease. WanNa, but you know. There's so many barriers, but I think the main ones. The one that I use only work with. The financial barriers for Susan in the judgment they fear the judgment from people. One of the girls I work with his got three children two three five dollars, and she stayed with the youngest child's father, and she says to me, you know he's like he's young. He's these, but he she goes I. Just want my kid to have a father and the life, and that's what they all want. Because that's what most of them didn't have. They want the kids like all parents to have what they didn't have A. And? It's kind of a really bear styling so yeah, it's just just walking alongside them. That's why I use it, too. Because sometimes it's for. Know. It's always it never stops careens. Yeah, so it's support for practical things yet, firstly, listening, being support system yet. Win! Woman is not ready to leave. But also if that woman non binary person is ready to leave, then you find the support because often. Relationship will mean that they're not in a situation where they can just walk out the door, and so they absolutely need some facility some cash someone to fix our own groceries. That kind of thing I've been the duty secret for quite a number of the lawn. Outside, and then I made their partners, and I looked them in the and I. See you fuck up, and they get really scared of me and it's quite useful. Scary. It's quite advantages love Jackie's ruling before backstage Abedin's fearlessness and that you mentioned. feeless so I made an is a comfort to women who are afraid to have someone who is. Feel US walking beside them, but they're not fee for the relationships this early. These are women. Mostly. There are a few of them stole entangled because these kids involved you know come on now, but for some of the one nine lifted he five years ago. So. It's lists of the fear of the relationship and more the fear of judgments in the we're putting a book out this year for really big publisher and I'll be traveling around the country promoting it, and they're all nautilus, and that's not to keep them safe from partners, or whatever, because there's a bit of a myth about secrecy and privacy that doesn't keep them safe by the way most of the time, so let's take kind of thing of they really fear the judgment of the final. They really fear the judgment. And that's a huge barrier as well. Because, they can't go the families. The families are often emotionally and financially struggling as well and I have a lot of discussions with women around, but the struggling you know, and they get really upset and redistrict by the that the families aren't supporting them and guide have the fact that like they're all sides financially struggling. They're also. She's struggling your mother's. Relationship, some kind of how's that going to happen for them? So I kind of for some of the woman and I. Don't the slightly. I take place for them of the mother in. Taishin. I'm going to sixty five year old woman who takes me three times a day and she said she's my friend and I'm not. It'd be screened. She's got a lovely free and she is a lesbian. All these been by the way. I don't think she knows what the museum is. You'll think that's fabulous. I knew quite funny. Be Museums in Ulan because that's. Poverty Museum is to. Pottery Museum there is a Crown Lynn Museum. and. Yes well is so you know it's a thing? All these barriers all these barriers, these barriers and I'm really good at figuring out what barriers there are and had a fuck them off. And it seems to me Jackie just from following your facebook page. You are also really good at specifying. What people can do to help you into help. The women and their families like practical things like clothing, but also really struck me when you've asked for food donations that it's not tinned tomatoes. Don! Donations anymore because I'm not working with safehouses anymore. Okay, but that was a particular safe house in the woman who runs it as actually one of the finest now. Don't because of DV. She fell on Sukhum south. She's at high looking after my little dog. By the way because we've become very good friends, but it was about here refuge and Our guy down there and saying well, what are you nate because she got in touch with me and seed well. Offering to help US I. Don't understand. This is how this works. We all right. We'll come, and and she opened the cupboard unweaned. Look at all the fucking D'Amato's. Like this twenty four and I know. I know because I used to be reviewed. Time and I want the Patriot looks like if you don't care for you, know because people are very kind and well intentioned and. giving. You know very genius people. giving. Specific a real shabazz because I don't care how offensive I am or how hurt people are because it's not about you. It's about the. Sorry about it. No, no, it's amazing, offended a lot of people. Could you just define fauna because I think a lot of international? Fine I just means it's family. And Mardi the was the which is sort of the tribe and a high, which is more of a family, buys thing and then the. Now for our purposes at Savannah of women who've actually chose it to be a fan of woman that happened actually just recently I've been working for them with them for years, but we started to have get togethers in the first one was I got a grant for two thousand dollars from the women's Fund in. We went to a very posh are talented lunch. Show tell very. Quite a frivolous video submission. I made the fund I'm taking the girls at dinner and you don't get fucked. And they bought it you, so we went for lunch at the bills are light. We really love it and connecting with each other so now he's a lot more of that stuff. So is becoming the screw people who supporting each other in what I'm driving towards, because maybe Michael Co. I've got maybe twenty S. if so, what I'm driving towards and I'm like I'm impatient about the shut. Is The woman running the organization? In, so they in become the support. And the support network. and. They start doing the we sort of already during the. Do. You need more volunteers. We don't take these okay, because the woman. The woman do it'll. Do you need money? Okay. Is there anybody here who has money? Seriously He. He can raise money so firstly. Is that anyone who has a corporate job? Where this corporate responsibility funds with part of a women's network or something that they think they might be able to divert anything from five hundred dollars to ten thousand dollars. This not responsibility fans have that Kinda cash, or you could do a fundraiser at your corporate organization. Maybe you could do like a quiz night or something like that way you could raise some money. Does anyone who worked for corporate US shoutout? If you wait for corporate that you think you could do something like that couple of. Derbyshire shot out. Just go woo. Great Okay all right super, so we've got a few people there. Who could do something like that? Do you think you could it in the next three months? Yes. Okay. Yes, just if you could do it the next three months three to six months. Super, so, will you do it? In the next three to six months was that I'm watching you. Will you do it next three six months? Yeah okay great okay. Is there anybody here who's more more of a sort of arts based community job, but thinks they could do something similar lines, but like a room above fundraiser own something with their family. They're planning on running a marathon and I haven't decided on the charity something like that. Can you share? Great, okay! Do you think you could do that in the next three to six months? Is there anyone here who doesn't think they could raise any money for the antifreeze in the next three to six months? Just yeah. WHAT EXCELLENT PARENT WORK SUDANESE! Guilty very well. Yeah, but I mean honestly. That's a bit of hands on feminism. That Auckland can do for the local aunties and you know that that money will be spent well, and that will change the lives of women. Some women who might be in this room. and that's what feminism is. I think the question is how serious are we about feminism like I know this is a light entertainment show. I know that, but I also know that light entertainment can do heavy lifting. Because there are serious spaces where everyone thinks was very serious, and a lot of us feel like not sure I'm serious enough to be in that serious base. Am I GONNA? Get found out as somebody who has not read the complete works of Soviet Platinum Maya Angelou Am I. Am I going to get caught out of somebody who doesn't know the of the? The cabinet. Am I somebody who's not really heavyweight enough to be in that lightweight space on my too low brow highbrow and I think what the guilty feminist days is a place for people who are compassionate, but would like to be more actively compassionate and want to get better want to build muscle. This is not a space where we just go our. I'm not very good at it. It's not that. That's GonNa hit tomorrow night as little. As two weeks exfoliating the stuff that doesn't matter who gives a flying fuck. If you didn't watch that documentary about New Zealand being the first place for women to vote, and in steady watched married at first sight, it doesn't fucking matter to change anybody's life. It doesn't fucking matter, but if you were to just say to everybody in your immediate friendship group bright, we're all going to dinner and we're going to work out. Something really fun that we can do, and my plan is to raise five hundred dollars. That's minimum. Maybe we'll raise a thousand dollars for the Aunties I'm GONNA. Tell you all about what the is. We're going to go out for dinner. We normally do, but instead of. Laughing about boys and jobs and Cup tells and thin. Saying Oh isn't the world shit. We're not going to do that. We're going to talk about those things then we're going to go. How are we going to raise a ground for the AUNTIES and we're GONNA. Come up with something really fun and we invite all of our friends to some ridiculous costume party. Something like that, but we're going to tell them all why we're doing it because all of those people. People that you invite all of those people that you tell who may not see themselves as feminists will go. Oh, that's interesting. There are people living our community, and you can say some of them. You'll know some of this money will be diverted to people. You know you don't know that those people need it so if everybody here could do one project, I know everyone. I already know everyone, but I know some of you will, so it's up to you to decide. If you're one of the people, it's going to do something or not, and if you've got such a hectic schedule. If you've got a huge job and you just can't do another thing and I. Don't want to walk away from here. Feeling guilty I didn't come here to be made to feel guilty. That's fine. If you've got a great big fuck of job, and you just can't do it. Make a five dollar direct debit once a month. That would help. If you, somebody who's got no money and no time. That's fine. Amplify on twitter. Just do one thing, but if you all someone who reckons, do get together with my girlfriends quite regularly I would like to do a guided tour of the Lesbian Museum. I could. We could say let's be museum. Could we do a fundraiser there? I actually would like to be more hands on in my feminism if that's what you want, that's what you say you want. then. Meet someone here tonight in the foyer. After this show, connect with someone you've never met. Go to talk to someone on the floor, grace and out in the floor afterwards. You're going to be milling around out there buying. Gra, CDs, if someone's books all sign them. Talk to each other and go. To this. Don't know anyone else. Connect with each other. We're who've gone. That's all we've got us. So. It's also nobody so. Let's say it's us. Thank you so much. It was a really amazing and I might. Edge we not an organization that gets funding or grants. We are fully supportive in funds by. Private individuals. Who are the last knees I built this community and on quite clear on social media. In it's just people who know where the money goes. They may have been the woman. Sometimes. You might even meet them. It doesn't really matter. But you know it's not about for me. It's about if you've got privilege you fucking it. And that doesn't mean that you got to charity inside. This is what I'm. GonNa do for you what you saw them. As what can I? Do and I live from very. Chapelle experience that when you say money, people suddenly lose interest then. I never wanted us a donor anyway. I want people who understand this is not about you. This is about people upon who's bakes and I'm really sorry I'm taking it to very deplace yet. We love a guy and. Deep Benedict, goes. Yeah hop struggling. It's always good and. They basically army Bezek's. that. A long longtime ago because my husband had leukemia. But you know that's the thing is that you are shitting? You're on your shine. It's part of what I talk to my. With about, but you know we're a very niche organization ICARUS because it has to be that way. Because Michael's deserve the second based and get the best, so you know every year is between one hundred What am I trying to fifty thousand dollars in everything bat, three thousand dollars of debt spin on the woman a storage. Element it's bad at in also I'm paid, but I'm paid from a separate account so people who painted that account. Different thing, so you don't want is action. That really relies on people's. Can patient kindness, but more than anything else. Then dawn altruism. If you like I, don't trust. Altruism could do as a not good in my book. So. How do we find your head? We had if www and he's cutting. Information can be found there and we'll put that in the show notes in the facebook facebook dot com slash refuge, and like I said that was when I used to eat with refuge, so we can change apparently because facebook dot like Jane. Far, be it for anyone to do anything on facebook isn't right. Be Awful. Ski Wash gives you joy and. Tell us how you kidding me. My whole fucking life gives me joy. My whole life. I mean I'm very honest about this. I was a stressed out kindergarten teach. US about if a news, break down. My husband was not well. My dog was fear of I was running the out. He says well and see. My husband leads to sell a house. We sold our house one point. Six million dollars I bought a house in Monterey with hop that amounts We lived on our savings foods. Couple of years then I started getting paid not very much that I mean a rich woman who said I'll pay you the other half my joy as I get to work with these unbelievable human beings. Who never read any feminist theory? But then more fucking feminists than anybody in this room and the reason, the more feminist than anybody else is because I watched. Sisterhood looks like because that's how I've survived the supporting each other I just facilitate that right. I'm nothing to do with us. It's just like the at Gosh Gosh and I started. WHO, but it's your power. I don't want your power. It's your power. You know I've got my own power. I need us. Because it's another thing that's really important for people who are living in relationships. Every interaction you have with them history about the power. Has About recognizing that you've been living in a relationship X. number of years or whatever where you feel like you have an eddie power agencies urine life. And also of agencies they deal with from women's refuge open is. have. Every interaction makes them feel powerless in tick boxes, and you're not doing this right and all that stuff and I'm like you'll man. You've got this new do that for year after year after year after year, and we getting the waving a public waving amazing with all the Knicks months because I want to have the Molsheim Room. Because asking the helps, re difficult people and I know that of out. They would find it really. How odd to us as well I mean if you're in the audience, you're feeling like Oh. God I'm sitting here. Thinking about I've always these white privilege in the power. Structures Support Caucasian people more than indigenous people in this country are more than people of color privileges nothing to be shirked. People Automobile. Provisions because I've got this and this and this but privileges a wonderful thing wherever you've got. Privileges influence and influences esteem ronin forklift. You can get things out of the way the question is you're only getting things out of the way yourself and people you love or people who like you or you getting things out of the way for people who can't because of systemic power problems in the history of the world. That's the only question to ask. But, also you know. White Feminists Sir paralyzed by guilt are addictive. And when you're next of united, it used to me, you know absolutely that's why we. That's why we do. I'm a feminist. It's jokey, but it eased explanation. It's going I'm not going to go on I'm nora in very good firmness so therefore i? Don't deserve to speak up in that meeting. Go Sorry, Tony! I. Finished speaking there and you. You clearly thought I had. So I'm just going to continue while you stop talking. And what I was going to mention actually was in fact that I'd like to do fundraiser for the aunties here. Accenture slash e slash P. Morgan Slash TSB TBS. Yeah What is it tears? Bt's is what is staring sightings base. Yeah, the water and Turn the. Rena Nelson Wellington W Basset and. Yeah I kept thinking I. Don't know what this means. Local reference global listeners. You know that doesn't matter. So. If you look down with guilt as you say, throw, so you look around you connect. Find somebody else here tonight and do a thing because when I come back to Auckland either end of this year or next year. Are really like to see what's happened and I'd like to get you back and see if any of the feminists have plugged in. CRESA projects started funding. If you could connect in when you're doing these things, if you can hashtag guilty, feminist or accurate, impart on instagram with the guilty feminist, so we can kind of see if this community works. So shall we try that? Great. So? You are amazing. Seriously just simply a matter of having a microphone Jianye the. Microphone so. Out In this neighborhood of Debrosse, guilty feminist I know how shameful. Into busy one podcast that I listen to you and it's to go to sleep, too, and it's a white English comedian. And I do fall asleep to his voice so. I. Can't remember it's. Not It's not now. He's a funny looking shaped any. Willie Jumpers unease. Fifties and he's got a young child. They had Robin INS-. Richard. Herring said Harry should hearing right downtown of my siblings. Sorry. It's not live. We can edit out. From now on I will be falling asleep hey people. People do. Nothing that I liked funny, fucking woman and I with a lot of good woman. We'll get up some people say. Because, you're in their ear in the kind of whispering to them as they fall asleep and there's nothing more intimate. So away, having relationship richly herring. Richard Having No. You're in a relationship with him that he's the last man you speak to it. I'd hate to think they'd. Tell him then I. Want you hit a deed house? But you don't even like another meeting your life. Eleven. Servings lobby human beings. I'm sure, but I don't want him naming. Baranov. You're either a cat, person or a dog person and not a man purse. Not Really. Some pretty. Yeah. we ready for incredible fine lines. Going for the walk. The letter drake pay eight. Doing how you Goin'. GimMe a shot. If you've heard me before, anybody. Web even all my life have we. Irish Irish family at all. Hello I've heard island twice. I've done to violent I. Love Ireland as a place. I love the people, of Ireland, am I have no fans in Ireland We. We looked into it quite extensively I'm so I'm a folk musician focus. Camera, any folk fans in the room. Cool so I go into folk music so comparatively late compared to a lot more peers on the folk scene in Britain so I, feel like it's this beautiful language that I'm still learning, and if you know anything about folks, you know the Irish folk music is about as good as folk music possibly gets right. and. I was doing this Gig in Galway. And I was walking through the streets ago. It was a Saturday night, and just every single and I knew I'd saw fucker tickets for this Gig. The always walking to and just not have every single pub. Doi, you see the most incredible folk music just being played live, just bud people who gonna live in Galway and I thought you know fairplay even I. Don't want to be at my gig tonight. There's a million things that you could go to go away so. And obviously go away is a place that has had many songs written about it and I was talking to my friend and I said I was going to go away, and and she said whatever you do. Don't Roy fucking saga about Galway and I regret to tell you that that is precisely what I did. So I am going to sing you this. Tonight and this is. A fairly new thing. Well. It's my first time and I in Galway, an on every single street. I can hear the hometown players and I know our compete. I've got no audience to speak of but I'd say get on Shin. The worst thing on in sounds and I, and it's ten euros in. While the promote is setting out all of the chairs that he can find. I tell him the optimism is in what I look for in his kind. Still as confident of woke up, but I think we've got much. Chance is the first show of my life. That was more expensive in advance. Sheeran. And God knows I'm no stevel. I'm four hundred miles away tonight from my dog shit. That if sensation should be fulbe to overstate my worth. At least there's always galway's to bring me down to. Well I've played rooms of. That have never felt so loud because it's not the size of the crowd that's in the Gig, but the GIG that's in the crowd yet said they are heroic their response enough to seem like they could fill a football stadium when there are a few short for a team. And we halfway through the set lowest and the finish line insight. When income, five drunk fellows, and then he and NYC. One haulers are you doing classics? Because if you are will pie? And he's not convinced by my assertion that they'll be classics one day. Because all never. Sheeran. And God knows I'm no Steve. I'm four hundred miles away tonight from my dog, Shit. Sensation should be for me. To overstate my worth? At least there's always always to bring me down. See Worth will. I walked along the shoreline? Across the bay. A felt the threat of creative juices, overflowing, sickly shy, or we're not fourth inspiration I. Swear I tried to hold it off, a said I would never a song here because this town. has suffered enough. Will never be good, Sheeran? God knows I'm not. On four hundred miles away sites, and I from my dog shit. Sensation should befall me. To overstate worth. At least always go ways to bring me down. See Worth will get SAR in hand on walking. Down the street. I can hear the hometown plays. When I'm beat. Someone asks me what. My Act is an icon suppress, grin. When a sale was the worst thing audience? And, I. For ten euros in. You happiness. Pass Jackie? Patriot! Chambers by poetry purchase finding nick shelter. Reduces Thompson escape from the sponsor. Brand I straighten. Seven accused. Of You for this thing, Mort Chevelle y'All. Down you them out? You, Throw Paul McCartney dentist. Don't treat them like that. I pick him up. It's getting strange. The sets of these are getting much weirder than they. We've been on the road while and we've got to that point. Where onstage an off stage at the same thing. which is always a joy. We've both put pants on, so let's plus. This is basically dynamic offstage except not wearing bras stage. I I've never done callous wearing a bra now to. Yes. Think about it as though they were prisoners. Thanks again to Fleishman is in trouble sponsoring this week's episode by it now in paperback wherever books are sold. Thank you so much to patients, but especially those who are supporting us at the smash, the Patriarchy level or above Valerie Ma. Jonquil, Koi Sarah Brown Rubio's Thompson Sarah Boom and Philip, Englehart.

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219. Citizenship with Susan Wokoma and special guests Baratunde Thurston and Bumi Thomas

The Guilty Feminist

1:33:23 hr | 2 months ago

219. Citizenship with Susan Wokoma and special guests Baratunde Thurston and Bumi Thomas

"I am a feminist, but recently, I confess to Susan Macomer my co pilot today. But when a mutual friend who was an attractive female performer was posting all of the terrible unsolicited sexting she gets in her instagram. DM's really terrible. Stuff gets really I mean really graphic stuff and she publishes it to educate everyone about how it is to be female. A celebrity woman in the public eye, a comedian and performer. And when I saw this I confessed to Susan that my first thought was that is so awful for her wind amend do it and my second was wide amend not ever message inappropriate things is that something I'm not putting out there. So I literally, I like three times a year all get something like this, and this is a phrase of a real message I got last week with great respect and feminism and consent I have to tell you I think your heart. With great respect and I can say. Is, I mean arousing, but it is. So. Great what a nice way to do it and then. You can say what fed going. You should say it now I can't remember it. Was Nasty. What you said was yeah. I literally get I. Just think you're amazing I love you in this TV show and if you ever come to Vancouver, my grandmother would love to meet you. Yeah and you go us and then you said something nasty. Something with WIP. Fico suffer like something. Hurt. You to Youtube I want you to. Do we don't want and I need to put this out there. We don't that it. We definitely really and I really do mean this on we do not face off shit. Shit Shit, we're going to expose you. Talking quite be like the comedian that you're talking about because. One she's streams so shit. Yeah. But not yet no, I'm a feminist. I've convinced myself that the reason why I've been getting lots of looks down the street from men. When I wear my mosque is because as my eyes load convey my. Beauty. Power Charisma. Sexual Prowess when actually I think the real reason why I keep getting looks is because I'm like one of three people wearing a fucking mosque. I'm. Nineteen ninety-five Michael Jackson because I'm the only one and I look I. Feel so embarrassed. I should have blanket in one hand like I mean. I. Just only there was a point whereas clouds. My eyes are just doing the most also unto exuding you know like people. I E and I'm not Saddam like look at me. I'm not just like my looks aren't just for some of my parts but it's my he's honestly I like. Like. Nine I think he's just because why she's still wearing my mom, why is she still wearing a mask that's gone out I'm a feminist but I applauded this week. What I imagine it's illegal behavior started to plot some of my own to put out and make his memes. It's somebody called Alexandra Curry with a k. a man deemed. Inappropriate? Picture. With a message that simply said a man called Manno, I mean literally in the manage. To even. A manner rights activist he sent her a message that said, hi my cock can we talk smiley face and then a payment or of his penis? Yeah I. Don't know it didn't really make grammatical sense. He's at high my cockney. And she wrote back to him. Auto reply we have to take to the transmission of unsolicited pornographic images of potentially illegal nature code three, six, four, eight, nine dash in brackets, and your devices. Ip Address has been forwarded to the police department pending an investigation. If you think this is a mistake reply stop and he replied stop. Account immediate. He was just like, oh. My God at least come he deleted his account. And she was because she posted it. Seems like taken the Internet by storm she had Mike. From a million lights and twenty five, thousand retweets like you know time. Yeah and she said I always knew follow I've got you're GONNA be really disappointed when I go back to posting pictures of my lunch because I don't really do normally. But I just started planning these memes you can send to people like. White supremacists and stuff like that. I was like this legal is. And it's not a planet. I thinking what you'll planning is to pose as government representative that is dead illegal what are you doing but I admire it so much that's so clever. Just him going stop stop and delete. Because, she saw him panic the Stop Poverty Leverage because she you. Know she wanted him. He wanted to see his panic. I'm a fabulous SPA. Town I've read Feick no feminist literature or any other feel at my feminism has like going up like with considering all the time that we've had I don't think that my feminism has. Gone up because I've been so worried about myself and you the world and our industry, and then I actually this is a genuine guilt like I don't feel at my feminism has kept going forward the weather I feel they has done before lockdown. I. A really. Really. Tough Year I. think that's an incredibly high bar. You're giving yourself to clear there. Do you think there's white men sitting around going? What have I done for Whiteman today nothing? I've just served myself not sitting that are asking that question they're not asking what did I do for people who are less fortunate than? They're going look at the High Score I. Got on my Game I. Don't know what James they have. These young men these days probably like. What's that one where they go around killing people the fortnight you know they're just. Could never go into that on tape on four nine DEF. On fortnight. Yeah. Definitely. I've. Placed night, it's a lot of people's most said. Are. Tribal. You. Yeah they just look at my high score and Fortnight and oh I went for a walk one day. They are not giving themselves that bar to clear and I really think given everything you've needed to process during lockdown as well and you know the black lives matter came to a boiling point I really don't think I think if you haven't read a room of one's own as well you. Literally alone I think it's all good I. Think you're good Babe I'm a feminist but when I read recently that Jon Hamm. Dating the actor Anna Osco he was in the last ever episode of madman buying that Hippie go who was standing at the counter with the red ribbons and ahead vote the coke later I know too much about madman. When I when I read that, he was dating her I thought well, I guess John Hammond I. decided we're seeing other people now. He. Doesn't know we are, but we've both decided that and that's how I'm framing it. Okay. For the best for both of us for the best you just need to have a break is was very intensive, many years. As we all know on the PODCAST. Me Watching Madman twice. In full is stating than, yes, it was Tennessee. Okay Fabulous but somebody said to me we'll talk about the thing and I said we really kind of hand. He said. You know if I found out that you would dating repair, I just won't be surprised. You just said in fifth way and it was honestly the nicest thing anyone's ever said to me. I think he was the nicest Eden. No, he just said it not. In our. Artist Bill Khushi as in my house. Nicest thing and. It's Well to eat I want that might be an option because I heard that Brad. Pitt again. Arif Celebrity News on. Any Brad Pitt Light. Interested. Though get it I, swear to you I read celebrity news ever but it sounds like you now because I saw this story about John Hamm but. I just saw that Brad Pitt is dating. A much younger woman who's in an open relationship. Okay. Cool. So that door may be wide open for the old coma listen twenty twenty. Twenty twenty could dish up anything day. Do you know Brad Pitt? You look like you might deny brought every Nah? These questions are coming in hard and fast. Bit triggered by them on the overwhelmed and under undue pressure. No I don't I don't think I know Brad time remember if you did. Come Back I. Think. Paid for. Let me just check my phone S. I've got his number. You'd you'd know. It's a confusing time I've been in the lobby homes. Listen if you care about black women as you say that you do Baritone Day. Job. I tell you. Okay cool. No, let me do this. Is. At feminists. Okay. Who Do you want if you don't want Brad? Pitt who lives in? Anyone. Anyone conscious be out there I'm a feminist PA MA standards of disappeared during using of somebody you WanNa date and on to hold. Day Hard. A Slave Angeles he's Oh cool narratives. Cool. White t shirt looking cool I. BET he. Could be like, can you up with some celebrity of your dreams the way that you talk about like a bear occurs? Six. There's really cool. How people. Let her believe. She's the last one that believes in American. Jobs. This you need my yogurt. From a variety of bedrooms and kitchens via zoom the spontaneity shop presents their guilty feminists with me ever Francois Guess co-host Susan Makoma. Very, special guest Baritone, day Thurston, talking about citizens. Who? This is guilty feminist costume, which weeks noble goals, twenty-first-century feminists, Pokhran insecurities which undermine them. White with me, Susan Macomer and today we are talking about citizenship. Susan Macomer High Dade Pain in the co-pilot chair for a while and I've been missing you badly for a while trying to navigate this bullshit. Has. been. Twenty twenty has has it feels like it's had more than its fair share of. Bullshit. Five Years Worth Bullshit all in the first half of twenty. That means that we know bullshit for the next four years bollocks. There's more to me this the thing that things out coming up in two thousand twenty new that just ripe that just spicy no mean nowhere to run it was a pre existing stuff. Now, this stuff is going to be qualify this shit for. Forever so that children are the future have above right? That's the point in it. Not As. Lucky. We're talking about citizenship then. I'm thinking of censorship. We are not yet at the point to formally introduced guess, but I wanNA say who's on the zoom. We have an incredible writer actor Comedian Emmy nominated host pods, castor, and activist who's making two of the best podcasts I've heard this year and actually I've ever heard in their sensitivity and their intelligence and hope which I think is something. Yes. In short supply and pragmatism I consume a lot of content that is informative and depressing equal measure and some of it makes me feel like I have to steal myself to watch it or listen to it, and then I do and I feel educated and worse. I. Just you know is sometimes you just think, oh, I, don't think I can do I just don't can I hold off on watching that show I know I have to watch because I've just marrying a lot I have to put some of this down and this was one of the first things where I went. Oh, I feel lighter. I feel more capable and I feel more energized from listening to this and in fact I. Zoom with a friend of mine this afternoon he made some comment about his instrumentals like you know what you can do with that and I just did a mini Ted talk and he was like Oh. This is a lot of energy and I was like I'm really sorry but I've just been listening to Barrington Thurston and it has had an effect on me and it was like you seem different I was like I am different. Day He's into House Halliburton. Deborah hello guilty feminist. And I think if I could have chosen a goal for the impact on his world as anyone who listens to me deliver a mini Ted talk to the. Right after a Hashtag mission accomplished and you're welcome. Next person but it was don't want. It was very specific to him. It was very pragmatic and it was like you know what you can do with that. He was complaining about something and I was like what you don't realize is you have an audience of potential voters that are not going to vote, and this is how you open them up and this is what you're going to do and he was like I just wanted to complain about something. About No I am show you how can you get yours talk about how you to change the world yours posting all this political stuff I've seen any way for you to make an actual change and he was like how I never said, I wanted to make an actual change. I said I wanted to complain about politics. I'm afraid I. Feel like he's going to do it as well. I've got to him so day. Thank you energy and message when Ford and Burmese Thomas POWs. Hi Debra and just to catch any new listeners out the first time Bermuda's on was on the Royal Albert Hall, and in the news then because although you were born in Glasgow under the draconian conservative government they were trying to deport. Tonight Geria- way you had spent some of your childhood and we know a lot of our listeners got behind and wrote to the Home Office. Last time we saw you you were still here and that was a really good sign. What is the current state of play for those people who wrote in and activates this citizenship please tell us the update where. Well the update with regards to citizenship is the fact that my are has now been granted. The last time we spoke we had escalated to judicial review on were sort of going back and forth him off his yeah, and since then my definitely remain has been granted I've been back to Scotland. Brown. Just like a him coming after that, he is and this tremendous shift. So I'm so so so so profoundly thankful for everyone who basically use their voice within the framework of them critique system to. Weigh in on, stand up for me on for the changes that need to apply to the current. Legislation around the Nationality Act, the consequence of it. So good news. This is the now things that I can do that. I couldn't do PRI-. So if for example, I wanted to run for a seat as a junior MP I can now do that now that I've got indefinitely to remain whereas prior may have the right to do. So I listen electrical so there so all these changes in the scope of my existence, how can be proactive musically politically News so Adamy now has indefinitely Tremaine Remar. A lot of people got behind and campaigned as they. We already should have frankly because he was born in Glasgow I don't know if you know about this bertone Dave do you know about wind rush? Yes I. DO night. So we don't fill you in and so under the wind rush rush to deport that's the government. Burmese. Parents hadn't filled out some forms below she was born in Glasgow they were trying to deport her. and. You've grown up life me isn't that true I've lived here since I was seventeen in the first three and a half years more for it was away for. Thirteen years so. Why should ascend and it's just outrageous. Also, you're one of our finest jazzing is and what a loss. Of. Talent and humanity it would be if you were to leave our shores without the right to reenter. So we are filled with gratitude and love and hope, and you give us hope that if we do demand better from our leaders that they will very occasionally deliver better. When they feel Guilty. Who did right in and pressure your MP's and pressure the Home Office it works it works and that's what we're talking about today. The MP's that I. Know Personally always say you have to remember people want to get voted back in if enough people go this is really important to us Nabi like. It's not worth losing power over you know, and so you have to show them that you will resist and you will be resilient in that resistance. So thank you for coming doing music tonight with so excited to hear from you. For keep anything on inviting me. It's only a joy. So, Susan Oklahoma your talking about citizenships day because pattern days podcast is called out sisson. It's about US taking personal ownership overpower not seeing power is just something that very few rarefied people have and that our responsibility starts and ends with voting once every four years yet and fighting a local elections and going we devolve patio. Now we lost too old. Now we just have to put up with this or are we won. Now, we hope that you do right by US Laurie Penny. Feminist she said something brilliant on twitter the other day she said, remember whoever you voted in your voting in your opponent. Yeah voting in your enemy basically who D- You want to go to war with for the next four years want to go to war with five. Do you want to go to war with trump because you're going to war with someone because nobody's going to do it the way you want them to do it yeah and I was like that's brilliant. Yeah. That's how we have to think about it. I can't stop by everything bottoms ever settled done. What about the time with like well. You don't do. I made my first trip to California in two thousand and that year. The election and I remember to that you. CanNot be mentioned yes. Yes? Yes and three, hundred, thousand and foldable and twenty twenty is close behind. And I remember when to San Francisco Mates for right and I've got to the Castro hangouts be cool and have those concessions about like what do you think is going to happen the election and it dawned on mean San Francisco everything I've known about the history Francisco don't mean there of all places I was like trump is gonNA win. Yeah you remember me my friends at my friends said will three of us we because we were engaging in conversations and when people would hear our absence, they would ask us what's your opinion on what's going on here and the reason why we came to that conclusion was how much hate there was Hillary? How much she isn't right. She this about her this there was just so march hates the her I was like he's going to get him and so it was with then go into away where I was going for work actor stuffing go into these big studios. I'd like two days of meetings and as talking to people like but genuinely scared just go now. So what do you think and everybody was like You know it's going to be coast to coast but. Hillary is going to win and I just knew from my experience I now because what I think, we have a real problem with this we're looking for hero. We're we're we're looking for leaders. All completely. Without any fault or complete infallible, they don't exist and I feel the. As a black woman I understand making. Allowance is not a seventy voting for a lesser evil. It's about going okay. This job is working environment isn't everything that I dream Dove because of X. Y. said okay, how do I navigate it? You know whether that's a good skill or skill adds to my late and trauma I don't know. But like there's just something about the I found quite difficult speaking to a lot of why CPA left wing friends taking the Cayote thousand fifteen election. Those people going to vote for the Green Party I was at Blue Green going GONNA win. It doesn't matter whether you think that their principles are really cool. You're just doing it so that you can tell your friends that you voted for the green, Pie s useless. You've got to make some compromise and that's thinking didn't exist in. So it was like watching the slow motion car crash as we watch the American elections where I was like yeah. I think a lot of people are expecting lead is to take every single books on they don't it's not I think I'm particularly centrist is just understanding the nobody is going to reflect exactly my values even another black woman like that's just never going to happen and so this kind of militant your right your wrong. You've said this once a might we don't actually have time I'm not waiting for people's activism to be perfect. We don't have time. As long as you're willing to learn as you go in the same way that I have to particularly in issues of gender. That's something that's as this woman haven't really have to think about up until a few years ago, and as long as you're willing to learn, let's just do it I'm the same listen I. You know I've certainly had people guests on the podcast and people I know and friends who say we have to dismantle capitalism voting Anybody's not which I get I actually get but I feel it while dismantling capitalism until the glorious revolution happens. At the moment there are days when I feel like all I can do is try and get a slightly better deckchair for. Honorable Person. On the titanic I'm like, okay we're all going down but these tech shares are also in by very very fancy people. Could she sit down to you think? I am aware maybe I'm shifting them around, but at least as we sink. I. and. I'm down I'm absolutely down to dismantle capitalism, and even as I say that I am aware of the hypocrisy inside of me that does go what does that mean for me? I know. Of Me that goes I'm a performer, I make my own living o w like but my better self goes it would look somewhat worse for me for short period of time and a lot better for a lot of other people and if I were part of the generation that got to dismantle capitalism I'd go for it yet, but it costs. There's a little part of me that goes am I safe and if I don't admit that no one else can admit that do. Don't want to be that person that goes I just got up every morning and do what I can to dismantle capitalism. Don't I don't actually really see today. Every single day I don't. Don't sell my flats and go to Greece and work in a refugee camp. Do. Chunky Chunky. Best, daily. Keep. But Betsy Asked I used to like my best. And I'm trying to say much hunky mess now. TATION. To Dismantle Apple. Really dismantling and what I'm saying is in the meantime. So that was good. Goal a good goal but in the meantime, please can we argue with? Know Biden Harris for the next four years. Yeah. Other than trump and pence because Laurie pens point is the best one I've done this. It's your voting in your enemy not your best mate. You don't need to want to have a beer with an a- you don't need to. You can hate. This is another thing why are. You here people. There really relate a boss I. Ever been relatable to. Mom. A drink with none of them like it's just the idea of kind of the personality politics there I just. Voice just bill I don't know why that's a massive component can I just ask this is a bit of an I'm a feminist spot note. I'm not questioning your wider point. I'm going to say I'm going to push back a little bit and I know Obama's foreign policy was atrocious however when he and Michelle will first elected. If they'd invited you round for beer. Surely, you yeah yeah. I. Feel they were very bearable I'll be very honest with you. The only reason why would have gone round because they're black lie Algebra also at least. Have the bid. They'll be no racism. That's quite nice. But. That's that'd be done. Worry about tonight go they'll drink they were. Very, cool and attractive rateable. When Michelle when I saw I had an intimate evening with Michelle Obama. That's what it was called. It was at the two that is not it was genuinely called an intimate evening with Michelle Obama. said Jew had an intimate. About this, it was clean and he was called an intimate evening with Michelle Obama that was at the AU to I'm not making that up the ante. The to resume its some large stadium or arena where big will go wild poor beer upon each other's heads and celebration of sport. Ball team. Yeah. Comfortable concerts yeah. It's like when Lady Gaga Place. So you and fifteen, thousand of closest. It was exactly that it was twenty awesome women having an ultimate evening with Michelle Obama and it was called an intimate evening and such fuel like she saw you and connected with you. I. I well, I got to speak in a GIG. She did it a school so we were on the same bill. And I did make eye contact with her but her people stopped me like I mean not that I. People can be tackled. Threatening eye contact. Secret services new. Weird contact. Down, shut it down. Go go go knock dowd. Got Another one. Word I. Thought it we've got. Michelle. Maniac. No I was told approach so I knew I already knew obviously got to approach that was that was on the cards so it wasn't it wasn't that I was tackled. It was that I need but I did my Calcutta that so I forty felt we had an intimate moment and we would obviously ended up being best friends but one thing that she said which I loved was in terms of this relate ability season yet. She said when she went from being like a regular basically Chicago mom to going into the White House she said all of the world leaders they met this sort of the heads of state stuff. She said, they were really weird and eccentric. They had all these eccentric things about them that they couldn't eat or way you could look. Weird they will. She said everyone's weird because they were on this bubble and she said I assume now that Barack nyah weird I do not know how we are weird but I haven't guessing we must because we the only ones not weird after being in this bubble for like eight years the white. House obviously we're accent shake obviously we wait we don't know how we try and find out what tell us so we Really. That's a level of self awareness that you know. No and tell us. Into makes sure accessible doesn't really funny. I ever get so successful city yeah that I'm eccentric tell me. Nana stoop your friend. Did it so often your Your. Successful than me I think we need to make a pact will you tell me from wizards? Yeah. We need to make a success. An eccentricity. To meet them with I'll be like cool. because. I'd think I'd embrace that fair enough fair enough. Yes. It's true why we're trying to conventional. Comes to the Mike Supercar. Play Year. I am actually recording from the Beautiful Standard Hotel in London given. Given a night here a temporary flat before I. moved into my my forever home and is so noisy. Any kind of recording the idea there I'm like so I was like. I'm feminist a screw equality I'm going to live up at the standard So like deb's when you said okay, we're gonNA talk about citizenship. I is really shocked me how upset made me thinking Powell citizenship and what means like for instance I didn't have possible up until the age of thirteen and I had applied and got accepted on this CBC talent show where they were looking for young kids to travel to the Malaysian Jungle Conservations slash reality TV show say and we would go there and we would build these feeding homes for the orangutans to be reintroduced to the world. So they're like is big platforms that they climb ropes and it goes deeper and deeper into the jungle until they decide, they don't WanNa come back and so the process of getting my possible had to begin and we didn't have much time we had about five weeks, and so I ended up having to travel in the Nigerian possible because my parents still oh, she's born in the UK. So just apply for British passport BBC will pay for it. Great. And then we found out that I had to be neutralized now. I'm not sure lines naturalized not neutralized naturally the thing naturalized. Rise. The Home Office tried to neutralize you. Happen to James. Bond yet. Mean yes. So we have to all kids had to apply for the Certificate of naturalization before we could then get all possible and are, but you know it all happened but my parents were really shocked then like. You know you born here in makes absolutely no sense that as one of the hurdle, our member turning up at like we have to stop over at Dubai airport and having to hand over my passport and it took that bit longer me to get through then everybody else and I felt that different I remember we had like one of expedition leaders Emma, she hold me as I would wait and they would check and double checking triple track my passport because she knew it made me feel a bit weird that I had to wait a little bit behind them as well as some kind of issue but I was traveling with white people's it was fine. So that was kind of the first time traveling internationally Oh. Gosh. That's that's the thing and then you know like anybody else his second generation, there's always this kind of Danzig balance of being born here and being Brit. Then also the very cultural expectations of you from your parents, my parents. Nigerian. But always seen myself asthma Julian british-nigerian was both an equal that was until I went to Nigeria. And You. Someone told you for the first time when I was twenty four and then I went again recently in two, thousand, nineteen and oversee two thousand eighteen is very different to two thousand twelve when I when and we have brexit and I was already kind of thinking about you know if the UK becomes progressively more assist where else in the world because I live and I always thought Nigeria would just always be someone that I could live and then this trip I was doing this film there and it. was very difficult. The film was all in the European language, my family Uraba, and so they expected me to learn your about on the spot that's not gonNA happen. It's tonal come on and so I felt very ostracized from all of the cast, all of the crew and it just made me realize I don't know where I belong actually, and that sounds kind of films. aaagh just it absolutely crushed me thinking about where actually where do I belong because this place this like far away motherland was always. Going to be home for me, and then I was there and even ten people in the middle of vehicles where I'm from them kind of founding it not being quite like Durian enough for central enough for it. Made me go God. So right within the jury culture I'm something else I'm other and that depressed me for reading on time a reading raid on time but one time when moist isn't ship was. Questioned was when we went to Calais. Eighteen. Read to Calai and at the Info boss. Is Way. You could. The refugees could use the plugs to the phones or any kind of like. Technology that they needed to help with that displacement and standing there, and I was the volunteer of color at few lots come up to me and I said, where are you from an I? All of a sudden felt like I was in the back of the Nuba. AIRTRAN refugee. From Way From and I was oh I'm from the UK. What you really from? Allah. Into a newborn camden and and I said, Oh Nigeria and they all went who place. Tough place? which made me that was the only time where I appreciate it. My citizenship being questioned took the PISS. The era trend. Lead. Like. At least would offer my area. That I, remember them, loving it and I remember you talking about the the remember you coming back and doing some campaigning to get more black and Brown volunteers at Calorie and saying it makes such a difference to black people. And Brown people when black and Brown people there volunteering and handing out food and donated clothes because otherwise this this if it's only white people, it's like this noblesse oblige. Hickam the white saviors and how differently they related to you stocks have been this hierarchical thing. But then also at the same time it is you know I look at them and I looked to them and they look like boys I went to school with by the it feels so close it doesn't feel the. Could. Be Me. And that was also incredibly upsetting with I. You know I look to them I don't understand why people can. Engage. With you apply that was really upsetting but more than my upset. It matters I think the we go out there and do what we can just so that it doesn't feel White Save Your E. Yeah we know we're not saying we were you know a lot of times, white people because of colonization and the history of the world are in a position to go volative six months because their parents have. Wealth. They know and volunteers at their parents are not wealthy I'm not saying that's the case all the time, and also there's already a burden on black and Brown women to. Just. Live in the world much less now they're having volunteer and stuff but I think your point was a really valid one I remember you feeling very deeply at the time and talking about it. But also how much those guys had with year. Joyful Latin made their day and I remember it started raining and I was standing in the rain and then one of them. Perfect body of my head and he was at your hair. Just. Like Journey like I was really trying to just ignore it, but he was on your hair. Yeah. Got It did thank you. Yeah the adding that an era train refugee will understand that your view more than a white man. Or woman raised right next to you in the same street in London. Holler guilty feminists, this is deborah two weeks ago we welcome three amazing Yoga wellness teaches onto the podcast and we've now launched a series of online workshops with them. Shortly, some others as well. The first workshop will be mindfulness and movement with Dr. Stacey CC Graham it's on Wednesday the sixteenth of September five pm to six PM you've time and it will be delivered over zoom and we'll be adding more classes over the next few weeks. Customers are offered on a sliding pay scale in an effort to make the more financially accessible while still ensuring teachers are paid appropriately for their time to book your place go guilty. FEMINIST DOT com slash be hyphen well, all look for the Lincoln. Our show notes. You can also buy my book the guilty feminist by on Merch for merged or and support some patchy on. Thanks so much for all of our supporters you've really kept us going while we've been unable to record live shows in theaters will have lots more videos exclusively eclipse, zooming out some special events for you soon, and it would really help us out if you would rate review and subscribe to the podcast maybe someone else about it send the blink about be so so helpful thank you so much and now back to the podcast. Our guest today is a writer actor comedian and Emmy nominated host. He has worked for the onion produced for the daily show. Advise the Obama White House Watt and wrote The New York Times bestseller how to be black he's also the exact producer and host to podcasts how to citizen with our Sunday and we are having a moment. Please welcome back. New. Add guilty feminists. Thank you for having me when I was doing this informal unpaid advising of the Obama White House my primary mandate was to instruct this family on how to be weird. I can't tell you what I told them. It's working out pretty nice. Eccentricity we just like hanging out with Machel, advising is a consensual privilege place to be I. Did I got to visit the White House not as a tourist on multiple occasions but during the eight years that they were in office and the number of times visited I, never saw them one time what wide one time I never actually interacted with either of them whilst. Special Party at the end for helping none. No No. Was it. Okay. There off my list I did it for the country. What does the of citizen you? Will Admit I. was at the very end as we were getting this countdown like I visited the White House a few months before the end yet. Ab Link we can just call it the in. The World Yeah Aimed and at the maybe maybe this'll be oh it was so it was actually a test of my ego. To be like, was I just doing this system? Shook the black residents hand while he was the black president and partially. Yes. That's like the real nece. But. It was still so cool to have worked with the quality of people like it's almost more powerful I have to tell myself this. More Powerful, not to have interacted with them. Because I just got to work with the folks. Worked there who ran these different offices I remember working with the US digital service. It's this team of Tech geeks recruited after obamacare failed the first time. We'll talk about that but it was embalmed. Website. It was the most embarrassed at the. The most embarrassing White House Red Shoes doing. Like a massive competent sleep for high jump out absolutely because they acknowledged the mistake and then worked rapidly to remediate and fix it and get the services up and running, and we're not in that White House anymore but it was really an honor like hang out I spent the whole day with the digital. Service. Team. And they actually didn't even work in the White House to work in a townhouse like across the street from the White House it was almost like a fraternity sorority house vibe. There was pizza and whiteboards and posted notes everywhere, and these were folks who could have been making a lot more money than Silicon Valley. Slicing us up for advertising exploitation and instead they were trying to use their tools for good for the benefit of all of us and that was great. That was a great time. Remember I missed that time well, now I'm said well. Let us cheer you up because I feel like you definitely are going to meet the bombers with the work that you're doing. Now as I said before when I listen to podcasts I am motivated and I'm galvanized also I just feel like you're showcasing the talent that can bring the change which gives me hope because there's a lot of showcasing of incompetence now and your showcasing brilliant minds and compassionate minds and. Often, the most intelligent people aren't the most Compassionate people and the people that have been most highly educated have been educated towards the self and away from the community mostly I'm really interested in hearing you and Susan have a conversation about various things. Just going to kind of kick it off by. Saying that one of the things that comes out of the show again, and again for me, both of your shows is that how is not just where we think it is we'll just what we've been told is and that one of the most interesting things that I was listening to you talk about today with one of your guests is that there's a lot of parents social norms. There was an example on your show about what we think of as normal when we were born, what was how things worked. Is How we think they should be even if they're bad for us or even if they're crushingly bad for other people, we can't really re imagine them. So one example is you know someone overdoses on drugs what do you do you call the police because it's an emergency and you do what you've seen other people do and you do what you've been told to do, and that's a social norm and so when we say defend the police, we don't mean leave. Someone lying there. We mean, sent a more appropriate person, not an armed uniformed member of the state who is there to demonstrate state violence. That's not an appropriate person and the state send somebody else can the community send someone else or a combination of the two, and the example that I thought was really powerful was it used to be that it was a social norm that the only people who could get married where man and a woman and it was not A. Step going hey I. powerful person think we should change this and it was not a brand standing up and going, hey, pride Nike and accenture of decided we should change this was thousands of conversations amongst real people who said, but I have someone in my family but this person matters to me and this social norms. Yes it's normal now but it doesn't seem right. It seems hurtful and I want to live in a new sort of normal and now it is normal in many countries in the world completely normal now i. had to Rewatch Reality Bites for something, which is only nine, nine, hundred, ninety, four. And there's not there's a guy that comes out to his parents and his parents looking out of the house it's played as if absolute expected. What happens when you come out to your mom is she goes on my God and she locked you out and it was play does that was completely a standard normal reaction and that was the nineties it's not that long ago and so there's power in changing social norms and it was the people who changed it not without great effort not without angst not without tears without fear not without all of those things and even as far back as stone will violence but. It did change. So that is such a powerful and impact for message to me that power is not just sitting in Westminster or sitting in the White House or wherever the power lies in you and your community and everyone in your family and everyone in your street if you know how to galvanize it. So could you talk more about how you discovered this baton? Day yourself and what made you go from someone? Who is that entertain a- into somebody who is an activist at this time? Deborah that was an incredible overview and piece of insight that you grab from this series. Thank you so much for giving it and for feeling it so. wonderfully mostly thank you for the low key shade Utah tossed at accenture I don't get enough. Accenture shade in my life people don't even know what that is. The ocean deep cut right there. Deep Cut. Hey I'll just. Multinational. Comment from time to time. So I used to work for the man who was the head of all gay globally for accenture Khao accenture. If you're listening I love, you however is not down to you equal marriage. Start with you let's be incredibly also. Have started it started. So in terms of answering your question about how I've learned this, and what has been a part of my transformation entertainment activism, I was born into an activists household. So actually think that came first my mother was very much. Someone leveraging whatever power she had, which wasn't a powerful electoral vote as a resident of Washington DC. In the US, we have taxation without representation still in the capital city of the US. But I went to demonstrations with my mother I, went to community meetings with her. I organized parents with her at a predominantly white high school where the parents of black students association she was in charge of the phone tree but then she did what I guess accenture might promote subcontracting. She assigned me the task of calling all the parents that were on her list. So I think I had a very early tangible taste of ways to connect with and influence other people, and it wasn't because we're sitting on a pile of money where we could write big checks and it wasn't because of you could vote many many times I could invoke because as a child and like I said, she lived in DC voting was limited. It's not that you can't vote. That's not accurate what I mean is. The District of Columbia sits in like gray area where it's not a full state. So it does not have representation in the US Senate war in the US, Congress? Where those members can cast votes, there's literally something called like a shadow senator how where it's like model model UN or model congress where you you get the title without the privileges and so being in that gray. Area also fired up a lot of DC natives as far as paying attention to what was kind of at the federal level, but it's it's more of a minor detail. I. Think mostly, it was growing up at my mother's house which influenced my understanding, and then as we're putting this show together, much credit goes to my fiance Elizabeth, who pandemic brought us closer together then expected. This is like the other human in my life in a physical sense and she. Had just left her job in January of twenty twenty and it was not seemingly the greatest time to go out and shop for a new one. So we decided to kind of go into. This show and I'm definitely the host and Voice of the show and I've been trying to make the show for many many years but adding the power diagnostic and understanding of it and even having a framework for what it means to citizen. That's a lot of her as well, and as we prepare for each of these guests and as we come up with the actions that we give people to do what each episode that's very collaborative between the two of us. So I want to acknowledge her contributions on on that end. To that specific point of power I met this Dude Eric Liu who is in our second episode where we do this deep dive? And he runs this institution called Citizen University and he's trying to make civics sexy again in his own words. And he is a person who we elizabeth and I both saw. Like Oh, he talks about power in a different way and we experienced power mostly in our democracies as these rich people have it. These elected officials have at ten downing or the White House have it. And we are subject to it like serfs like we never left that model in our minds and it gives us easy scapegoats because we can blame other people and it's very disempowering and when we talk about democracy and when we talk about civic engagement rarely do we talk about power and if we do, it's kind of dirty or it's inaccessible or both and Eric just laid it out way better than I ever because he studied this for so long. We can generate this power, we can circulate it we can share and there are many different ways of flexing it. Voting is away organizing physically as away spending money as a way physical force is away. Ideas are away and norms back to a point you started with and we can change what is normal I mean that's that's powerful so This is great. I I needed it for myself as a listener. So it's really exciting to make it because like you said earlier I I feel very intelligent and very educated and very depressed I'm much of the media. and. This is a super entertaining eloquent way to tell me how screwed I am I don't need more that. So I didn't want to contribute to that yet the thing that I love most about your work is how pragmatic is like? Okay we have this information what we're going to do how we're going to act and I think the the thing that has fell very palpable during lockdown is people are GonNa take right what do we do what we do now? But I personally and anno-. Actually. Just me a not of my black friends. Female. Fan Presenting Non Binary Felt A variety of things the main ones have been like how to put it is. I'm tired. All. been screaming this. I've been screaming this and I was one of many people who suddenly on Instagram hundreds and hundreds of new followers because I was being tacked in all the stuff like. That people that you should follow fuller. And I am I mean you've just heard me you know Kiki and at the top of the AMAS silly idia which I'm I'm proud of I'm also very intelligent and I know that. One of the things that I was having these conversations were like when we go to these protests and you have say trans people of Color, these protests they protected, how are they protected? How do we the coughed women in our community and? The reasons for putting myself from the front line which historically has come before me. The women before me is like, why should I keep doing? You know why should I put myself? Yeah. It's not necessarily how I felt I, completely that trained so hard and so a lot of the kind of information that's been around but I'm talking very specifically this year as felt also very white focused or non black focused like these books you should read these are the things that you should listen to, and again I was just like a all fields if not fighting white supremacy we're helping. White people and black people become really you know today all fills focused outwards. So in terms of, for instance, the first episode of how citizen and Talk About Revolutionary Love I feel what they times more with people who don't have somebody standing on the neck. So. In very long winded near toll. Deborah had a lot to say how do Black People Engage with revolutionary love compassion understanding how do we grow? How to week a knowledge? How do we stay pragmatic when we're tired? When was scared to? Trans people come nobody by people call you know it's not safe sometimes to go on March or if you're not with a, you know a group is like who are like you? That's a big question. What do black people during this? Know that thank you for that. As does a deep question fortunately, the answer is simple. We. Take Naps. Just. Tarango. Short custer but. Trying I'm trying. So many words have already been spoken in this world. Now nuts. It's easier than reparations. There's a lot of advantages to napping. Thank you susie for. As real question and I think it's a paradox of. Systems, of oppression. That those who have been oppressed to prioritize the experiences and the feelings of their oppressor in seeking. Liberation and okay. So when do when is there time for me? When do I get to get educated or play or sleep or not think about systems of oppression and how they intersect with, and can I not use the word intersection analogy like ever again? Is that possible? That'd be great. I. Don't even like the word doesn't roll off the tongue. Nicely we could use a better branding for it. So, what do black people do? A couple of things come to mind. One is that is I think under sold. Is that we breathe. And we take a moment to college. How amazing it is that we exist. Right and we don't need a black president right? We don't need a Nelson Mandela like we don't need freedom. We're we're here. Any black person. A silly. Black person who likes to chop it up on. Zun. A. Black person sitting on a stoop somewhere right now a black person under a tree in west Africa right now. Is here. That is very much against the design of the world order. And We're amazing. Because we exist. And that's worth a moment. Oh sorry. No it's all right. I feel to feel it too. Does work very, very hard and it's very draining and. I am not invincible I am not an infinitely rechargeable. Tesla battery of wisdom and patience and. Mercy. For those who have not been raised to extend those same things to me. And so I just cry. I take naps. I shadow box. I. Garden I cook. I go for very long walks in my neighborhood in part to signal to the white people that I live here and also. Do. That once daily and the. Every Is Still. My hair is changing I. Haven't been to the Barbara in a while so you might think I'm different still me. Still me I got a new backtrack. Subjects. Put. So. Yeah. As one of the biggest my mother I remember seen it's called. ASEAN because it plays like a cinematic moment in my childhood. We had this parents of black students meeting at my private Secondary School Sidwell Friends School in Washington DC where the OBAMAS sent their daughters and the Clinton. And we did this was the winter time. It's like Kwanza Ish. Time? It's holiday time. and My mother led this ceremony like almost an Afro shamanic ceremonies. and. Got Us all into a circle. And everybody hold hands and it was parents and students every shade of black multiple, very wealthy black people very dependent on financial aid and like school by the skin of their wallets, black people and multi racial black people in between everything. And instead of talking about the agenda for the Kwanza Celebration or the budget for whatever thing. She's like, oh when everybody hold hands. Closure, is. and. Let's just. Picture ourselves in the bowels of a ship. Crossing the Atlantic. And we are in the bowels of this slave ship. And let's just feel each other feel the spirits of those who allowed us to be here. And folks lost in the number of tears we'd never get that. We never get the message of healing of patients of naps of mental health resources. We get the exact opposite. You know we're dealing with a case as we record right now yet another case, there's always another case there's always another body. In this case, a man named Daniel prude in Rochester New York who was suffering through a mental health episode his brother calls nine one one because it's normal to call nine one one when you need help with someone who's exhibiting mental health incident and the police show up and end up murdering this young men. And, that's a metaphor. For like millions of. People. Were all struggling with and suffering from, and we're in this generation multigenerational post. Traumatic stress. and. It's Diaz Boring. You know it's not like we in America feel very special sometimes because that's our brand like America we real special. But we you know you mentioned wind rush earlier we have the whole colonial existence and experience you look at any of strife that's happening on the continent of all humanity and it's not just like, oh, these are just average people who can't get it together. They don't know how citizen. No No. No. No. Could you the borders who took the resources who turned tribe against tribe and brother against sister? That didn't just happen like all people are capable of war. So I'm not saying like Europeans are uniquely predisposed to war, but I am saying that this version of history that were living in. There is an imbalance. Of Exploitation and pain wielded against so many people from around the world and it's not a mystery. It's actually the answers is right there. It's call history. So. That was a long answer. It was a long question to be honest. Thank you. Very question I mean my next question was kind of lead in now may be meant to go before that how all you depends on on the day. Right now. I, think I'm pretty good. Woke up went outside and I saw these like. White Snow on my car and looks that's snow it very hot. Oh, that's Ash California's on fire that's literally ash just falling from the sky. That baby not so great but. I'm doing okay and too. In that I have found an overlap of my. Purpose. Okay. I'm making enough money to live comfortably in a pandemic. So cool. I love you know great. My family that I am aware of is healthy. WHOO. Okay. We're doing good there and I am hitting a stride creatively of tapping into something. Real or deeper than I had before and I thought I was doing okay before when I was like Oh, this is what it's like to drop in even more. So I'm doing good I get tired I get angry I used to give worn out. But that's also like I don't know many humans that don't. Either and so I don't WanNa get feeling too special about that is my tent one to ask how everyone is because. You. In. The Times calm down now. But in the time of kind of everybody tacking me as their favorite flock to talk about stuff. Like I, you know I'm a bit exhausted. I remember here in the UK Bego was in Hyde Park and he gave a big speech and was Golic Jamaica's amazing. I remember feeling very angry and bitter. This guy. He does yields a Lightsaber I won my brother to just have a good time and buy a house gray's parents in Peckham a now he has to be this freedom fire and why does his activism? Allowed like this. I just felt angry fell to him and you know those that picture of the black man carrying the white guy during one of the anti matter marches here in the UK destroying black-eyed everyone was like this is symbolism of courage and I was just I would not have picked that guy up and I know. I know who? Did you know that they neighbor but listen her the other cheek. When I saw that image just like it's every guy hate because those yes, that is dual serve us even when we have turned up today to protest you and so. Amongst all of that I am very conscious that we should always ask how the are. Well, thank you for end look I. This is a show called the guilty feminists right and. I have as much as I preach. from a super educated perspective the race stuff I'm still learning in the gender. Universe. And the and the deep misogynistic history. But I keep finding for me finding discovering realizing these parallels and you just like when I think about. I talked previously about the oppressed having to prioritize the feelings of the oppressor and where is that ever more present than a woman who stands by her? In the face of some incident or I don't want to criticize my boss who said this thing because I can't afford to make the guy feel bad for hurting. Because that's just GonNa hurt me more. Right. So there's a universality to this too and we're bound in this web. Martin Luther King had a little more eloquently this web of mutuality ties us together, and we've got to find ways to see ourselves in each other and fight to free all of us because we're all held captive by something so I could literally go on for hours. That's why I've made a couple of pockets. Not. Have much time. Can I. Just ask you about the thing that I thought was really interesting on your podcast you talking about power justifying itself and telling US why It should have power. So the stories from the powerful will always be they are the most appropriate people and I really liked that even when you're two men on the Po cost, you often will reference the intersection of maleness and you were talking about how there are always storylines from the powerful for why people who are not white and male just aren't cut out for it and that those story lines will be propagated, and then that's the story Bahir because of course, if someone's holding power, they need to tell a story and I'm very interested in story as storyteller. What do you think the power of story is and? The heft of story I should say the heft of story and the story of the powerful. So Eric Liu share this wisdom with us in terms of kind of. Laws of power and one of them was that power justifies itself and once you've got it then you tell yourself a story. That justifies why you have it and others don't. So you can see this in military service only only men can be soldiers because we're stronger. And we are women are good at math because men have all the positions leading all the math department. So there must be something about women's brains that make them less capable at this thing or while the reason that the current world order is dominated by Western white European ness is because the global south doesn't have the education of the sophistication they they didn't build the corporate structures that we did, and therefore they didn't earn the dominance over the world, and so it's willed by God or science or both, but we justify dominance by the dominant. And if you're not dominant than, it's because you don't have what it takes and so that infect that story infects both those who have this power and those who don't. Right because those who don't we tell ourselves well I guess. I. Wasn't born light skinned or with his hair in this body therefore, maybe I'm not I didn't grow up in this rich part of town maybe I don't deserve to have the right. So I don't even try and then those who have non. Laboriously inherited this power say. Why must have what it takes I'm just naturally gifted. Thank God and and then there's a proud and brace right now the unabashedly unashamedly white supremacist movement. The white male chauvinist movement is out of the closet. We are proud of suppressing all these people we clearly had something. They did it. That's the proud boys names themselves. In this mythological story So to your final question of the power is story that's all there is. Mostly stories. There is like I majored in philosophy in College I. Think there is something called objective reality. But. I. Think most of us don't access it on a regular basis, our experience of truth and the world is mediated. By someone else's story it's a radio program. It's a TV show. It's a nursery rhyme. It's it's a norm inherited from our parents or our pastors. But it's just a big game telephone. So we are trapped in a story and the challenge of that is, wow, this is a very powerful story at its infected. So many times, but it's the power is also it's just the story. We could write something different. We could photoshop this week could final draft. This could edit this in Google docs or something and come up with some different language, some different about phrases and some different plot points and characters. For how this story plays out, and so that's that keeps me going. How hopeful are you that this current changing of shifting the narrative in America and by extension globally. And the attendant issues with the pandemic and the questions that's bringing up how hopeful are you that this story can change and how frightened are you that there will be a pushback from the Patriarchy so the story is going to change how? Fast how violently is one of the questions are two of the questions there is such pent up frustration anger rage. Look at the children of the world. They're trying to help us tell a better and different story. Yeah. They're trying to get us to tell a story of regenerative agriculture and Clean Air and pristine waters and recycled everything and those of us who've inherited this old story and our hyper invested in it because we've had some power. These kids are creating their right. They will be proven right eventually weather's because everything's on fire. And we're forced to rebuild and re grow from ashes. or whether it's something more peaceful and beautiful. And planned out and we migrate the story. So it's GonNa. I have absolute faith that the story is going to change. I don't know what's happening in the next few months we have some key plot points some pivot points ahead with the US election, which is not just about us. Of course, we have an outsized influence in the story in the world. So as we so many others to and we threw off global balance as well with how we show up or don't hello NATO partners. Sorry about. So I know. The story is going to change I. Hope. It will change with relative peace and backlash will be there. It already is there we are living in it. You Got Boho because of backlash. We got this dude because of a backlit and that's going to ratchet up even further. I'm also hopeful that we can get some leadership from ourselves and those with more form elected power to try to bind us together in a bigger story that allows for the people who. are suffering too is very hard for me to say this. Is Very hard for me to say this but Valerie Kaur said this in our first episode, there are no monsters in this world there were just. Broken people. Essentially, that's a paraphrase and so all these people lashing out him back lashing. Their reality their story has been up in, they've been promised this thing and it was a lie. And you wake up one day and you find out your Daddy's not daddy right you find out you're not who thought you were that your God is not your God that is violet, and so it is a rending experience for them and I have some empathy for it doesn't excuse a lot of things, but it explains it. So I'm hopeful that we get better storytellers that can include everyone hurting. In A to a bigger story we all have. A bit more joy. Happy World Love. And see a bit of promise for all of us in Lhasa. This zero sum nonsense I loved what Valerie said about asking especially if you're an ally of instead of just burning the bridge as an ally asking the other person, how will you misunderstood? What are you most afraid of if your worldview fails and I'm really interested in like meeting men's rights, activists and talking about that and Saying I'll take on some men's rights. Activists have some points that I absolutely hear and agree with I want to say if I can take on one of your points. Can you take one of mine and can we we fight for because? I reckon I could win some of them over I really do your so fascinating there please can you come back another time I would love to you. WanNa do on two hundred. Just, makes you have to go like everyone just needs to listen to your pocket. I. Feel like things I'm going to ask you you've already talked about on your own podcast anyway. So if everyone who listens to this would listen to every podcast. There's not that many episodes. How many episodes of having a moment we're having a moment is a six episode miniseries that we wrapped for the summer of pandemic revolution, and then how to citizen with Baritone, days and ongoing project we are about to release our fourth episode I'm not sure that gap between. Our recordings and your releases. But at the time of recording, we have three up and in our fourth episode, we'll be speaking with Jose Andres, the global world saving chef about many things. So that's GONNA be dropping every week for long. So few episodes listen to each and everyone old, and there's so many brand new ideas in there that I've never heard before that will motivate you that will inspire you if you like the guilty feminist you must, in fact, I'm going to say you must listen otherwise you're not allowed back to the guilty feminists. Start listening to bartend day in Nafta Gas. It's now text like. It's A. Thank you for having. I know I said I have to go I'm literally late for like another streaming. But I am an activist but. I I have a lot of stances about how we need to fund the police and we shouldn't be calling the cops and everything but every time I see a police officer I get so friendly. Artist. And I it's like I've been trained from such a young age to like overly comport contorted myself in generous matter and I think in this era to be like a black dude walk in his neighborhood in Los Angeles and smiling and waving I am making these police officers day was. Very. They're very few black men out there not just given a ned flanders level vocally. It up. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'M GONNA. Get on you. All right. You are a man amongst men and it's just being obsolete joined please. Please come back. You would just so wonderful. Time and sorry we ran over but we love you Ask. Lobby folks of the feminist please while Kermit. This is the story of the first time I citizen. Using citizen as a verb as Beretta Thurston is now making popular. This is about my civic awakening if you like, which has a teenager alone time before I had my sexual awakening because I was in a weird culture religion, which is story for another day. Now my head mistress at my secondary school. My high school had a sign outside the front of her door that read before you speak ask yourself is it kind? Is it true? Is it necessary? and. I. Remember my best friend Philippine agreeing that this was ridiculous criteria and that we would never say anything if we lived her checklist. It would be completely silent if everything had to be true kind of necessary. She had another sign that read never doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world indeed it the only thing that ever has Margaret Mead. And I don't think about that much at the time I. figured. It was like one of those platitudes headmistress has made like nobody's watching even when are. Why. Would you do that? When when when you fourteen Charles of being mocked while dancing a high high, very high and I was fourteen years of age I was in grade ten. Now people who stayed on for years, eleven and twelve we usually doing it to prep for university or college. A lot of people dropped out at year ten and eleven twelve fewer subjects, but you chose them all yourself. Now I had taken music to year ten on a wanted to take it again in years, eleven and twelve. But when we got the form, it wasn't there it just wasn't an option. So my best friend and I went to the headmistress and said, there must be some mistake music isn't being offered and we've taken it this far. And she said do to Ernie a small group of students taking music and year ten and therefore fewer in year eleven and twelve. It wouldn't be offered because our arts funding budget had been cut. In fact they decided it wasn't worth employing a music teacher at our school at all and the whole music program for everyone even the young ones the twelve year olds was going to be there was no more music at our school. But. We really wanted to take music so Philip or and I went away and did a report on why music was important for teenagers and we found evidence that students who played an instrument were better at maths because it cultivated the same neural pathways for patenting in the brain. Now, Miss Pritchard our headmistress knew that this was a crock of Shit. Because neither Philip nor I heard about maths and we had deliberately taken the opt-out Matt subject called Social Maths which was basically how to count your change to make sure you weren't being ripped off at Sainsbury's. So misprint shut buying it. So we came back again and we asked her a question and the question was. What would it take for us to have a music class next year and this is something that I learned about citizen you have to ask the power base. And what circumstances would you give us what we wanted? So, we said to her what would shift it and she said, we need to find twelve students who wanted to take elective knowing that we didn't have anything like that in the bank. So now we had to go out and convince others that they wanted to take music. So, we had about six you wanted to take it. So we needed to campaign and we had to explain to other students music. It was fun while music was the subject. They were going to look forward to what geography would take music. Play. You're going to learn about music what what music do you love hip hop that'll be covered we probably blithely. Now. Told me what the curriculum would. We had to tell them what the is where we had to campaign campaigning for an election. So we managed one by one to convince students that they desperately wanted to take music and we had them signed up and we find out eleven. We needed one more and I realized there was a new Boyega just joined at the end of the year ten, and so he didn't really have any friends yet, and we told him that there was this was a small cars and so far it was all goals and he'd be the only boy and that opt his chances of getting a girlfriend significantly. I mean. Of course if you're the only boy, you flirt up no other boys to compete with. I'm a feminist, but we pitched that music class as a meat market and Martin was sold. Then we went back to misprision and said Richard We've got twelve students. She was not expecting this. She said she'd done the sums that she still couldn't afford to justify hiring a teacher for just twelve students. So we said, we weren't leaving her office or just sell outside it until she committed to hiring a music teacher and she said, then we'd be sitting outside her office a longtime because we weren't getting one and normally sitting outside the headmistress punishment. So it felt like the joke was on us. I turned around and I looked at her sign and I, read it out. Loud to her. Never. Doubt that a small group of thoughtful committed citizens can change the world indeed appreciate it is the only thing that has that y'all sign adults like nobody's watching pitcher. Chair. Mates misprint shirt. You have your own science now watch me Dolf like nobody's watching. Pritchard side. Instead, for twelve students, she could only provide three of the six contact class hours a week. The rest of the time we'd have to study on our own, but we would have a music class she told us she could only afford to buy half teacher. We said Dale we except we're accent a teacher. A The next year year eleven twenty-three-year-old teacher called Leighton Gilmore Mr Bill high turned up. He was on his first year out of Teaching College. So I guess he was cheap. He was very cute and we all had a massive crush on him. He taught us six hours a week because once he was there in the school, the headmistress found away. I. was like what she's sitting around these fit we. Can. We could not have imagined more handsome outcome for our music class sit-in. And that was my civic awakening. The time I realized that you can influence the people making the decisions, and if you do that, you are one of the people making the decisions. That influences power to move things and that a small group of thoughtful citizens can change the world. And maybe it is the only thing that ever has or ever will. That's One teenage boy looking tonight. Probably not historian I have never told the cost, there's always another one digs. Wad. have. Pretty. On now. Plays. Welcome Berbatov us to the Mike. while. That was sensational Deborah. Truly and Susan what you said it's still resonating with me around citizenship because this parallels between our stories is I. The reason why I was rejected was because I wasn't naturalized that was the consequence and even though I'd moved to Nigeria, my family really young. Old Time. I was there I didn't speak with a Nigerian accent was the outsider yes. A Matter of time until the return. So no matter where you are you don't fit in because your something else. I don't know the sum total of all these defendant experience. Yes. But you are Nigerian and for me I was told that I was going to region as well and It was really emotional for me going back to Scotland a couple of weeks ago. After the whole ordeal and I had gone the indefinitely Germain and it's like, oh safe. Yeah. And I had to go because I was playing at Edinburgh international book fast and Doing Ambrose like Bliss Joy Oh my God. Oh my God, my God in here. Yeah. But on the coach up Glasgow, my heart was literally in my throat. Because it was like what if I imagined it to be this fantasy? What if the Scots don't accept me? On This whole sense of like rejection and trauma and healing, and then the power of nature in sort of censoring yourself in the soil of remembrance. I'm understanding the power the `NIGMA rival. On it. So so intense again in going into like the power of words we're talking about directing your narrative or. Telling your story in a way. That is correct. That you representation is true. And also acknowledging the fragility of being an how words are so harmful. So potent in shaping intergenerational kind of poetry. Mar Soul. Our essence. Our culture and the world that we have to play or we can access to playing. In the evolution of it. So to speak of this. leads into the EP broken silence where the song applying today's call fire, which is exactly about that the heat that may generate and the heat that is caused by misunderstanding or by carelessness. Callousness of intense with historical modifications. To the song so Being The tongue has the power of life and death. The suiting tongue is the tree of life. Russians spach. You say. The man next scholar. Sticks and stones? Can break hard. Exam Don's can Greg Gumbel. Paul. Don't speak again how. How How com. Jewish raw because you may know what once you get get what she own. Words once spoken can. Again out. Now. Off. Huh. A. Thank you I. Think you Suzanne. ooh thank you Bob. Is Amazing and year amazing. Wha what. Do you have anything to plug. City became oh guess. I. In a film could in our homes on Netflix IX on the twenty third of September their fee to what is called Millie Bobby Brown and Henry. Cavill in San Caffeine and Helena. Bonham. Carter it's really good farm. By some waie books about what comes his sister, and then I'm in a show on Amerson. Cool. Tree seekers, which has some impact and Nick Frost new show Harry. A out later this year. Check you out. Thomas. When we listen to music, I'm on. spotify tidal. I Tunes Apple Music just on all the major digital platforms. Thomas. Count Hurry mazing music. Yes. Great. Where the podcast festival the podcast festival on what date Thomas Key. Twenty six September you all of the tickets to. See Us live a gone because you know social distancing and all that but you can join us on a line alive. So in there do that, check it out on our website about dot com or at kings place. You have ballistics. The remain ever process wind. Gasco. On our very special guest, Baritone Day thirst with music from Leumi Thomas. The goes penalties. Theme chain was comprised by Mom Collagen binding sheldon, producers, Thompson inskeep, and spontaneity show. Thanks to Rachel across Virginia DC on everyone. Happens all of you for listening more inflation amounts another specific Lt. Dot Com. Everyone else having trouble hearing me? Yes. So It breaking up, but your recording at your end don't you? Yeah so we get it shook should be okay. I got I got the gist so. I'll edit this part in. Separate you've got your. Going to say it sounded like it was a little choppy from me but it sounded like boom is your new prime minister is that what happened? Yeah. I. Yes that's how it works. Huge, thank you to all of our mazing patrons sponsoring the smash the Patriarchy level or above junk okoye Sarah Brown and Sarah Boom.

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206. Education with Sara Pascoe and special guests Sarah Brown and Yasmine Sherif

The Guilty Feminist

1:03:05 hr | 5 months ago

206. Education with Sara Pascoe and special guests Sarah Brown and Yasmine Sherif

"I am a feminist. But when I sat down at this computer to do the same cool and discovered I was back lit. I realized. That I have. What women's magazines and shampoo bottles called fly away hair. That is because this morning I washed my hair and I did not do one thing to i. just let it dry because I don't see anyone i. don't go anywhere. So what? The fuck is the point of trying? Says a career good feminists it'd be? You, Know you Harry flyway. Say To. About because I hate it, I hate says. About Oh I hate it. I want to sit down and look lovely and I'm like you didn't try. That's why you take lovely naval. Will these amazing clueless? ICON myself in the butt. Because I've got such a hairy face I have this Chin Halo that if there's any even if it was like daylight coming in, it's like fibers we. Getting ourselves too much. That's. I stopped. I've started shaving a lot more. I never shaved tonight busy for life, but now because I see my toes, not unlike why am I? Have A, and then once I've shave them I might as well just do the whole neg. I'm a feminist spots. The Corona virus has changed me. Since I've been queuing outside Sainsbury's. been thinking really from about the nineties where women just woke up to the front of Cuba, a nightclub in the bounce. Just let you in. I think yeah, and like I mean that would be great. Wouldn't it for no other reason, but come on in ladies? Have a good time. The Vegetable I. I would completely accept it I would just also. The mid is just sort of like. If it was a pound for five CORTEX and wonder, get in free. Yeah, that's it yeah. Each night every night and Sainsbury's. I'm a feminist bought the other day on twitter I saw somebody quite tweeting and mocking somebody else. For posting in a very tone-deaf way about fingernail Polish during a really dramatic news cycle when everyone else was focusing on something more important and I looked to that also judge the person, but then what it said did sound interesting, so I quickly clicked on. Did Not favourite the mocking because I had done that, so I want that piece of apostasy out there. Yeah, but you did think I wonder what she's done with her nail furnish it was it was something interesting about punish walk, possibly meet Nelson, but in that moment I thought I do want to see was the complaint that it was too fancy distracting fancy, or was it that it was like kind of crack not very well. No, it was about some kind of new methods of. It's like stickers for your nails that look like nail Polish so that. During lockdown. No, it was the twitter fade, and everyone else was commenting on the important things happening in somebody had posted about stick on nail, Polish and someone quote tweeted it going way to pick up on the ZEITGEIST. And I went a hundred percent. Come on now. Don't be posted about that. Stick out loud because my nails are so bad so I just had a quick at the quickest. Shamed and off. But DEB's that does sometimes happen to people accidentally that they seem really insensitive, but because they haven't read anything on twitter, before Pisces when there was the blackout Tuesday pretty much everyone felt about instagram had put up a black square, and then something meaningful, and then one of my friends have done ahead you tour. Oh, and so it's just all of these black boxes at these kind of quote, said sending people to articles ways of informing yourself, and then just my friend. An had to straighten. Dogs, no! No I quite quite quite. I know that she has been. Having hair timelines on. You didn't but I will say you should read the news before you post ahead you to`real, but some people don't engage that way. Sometimes. You think of a funny thing and you only go onto do to go. And you just don't the. Shop saying the Brim now in these times the room needs to be. Feminist but the virus has changed me. I've been doing yoga with Adrian every day, and while I think she is the most astonishingly. Clever, sweet woman, and such generous in what she sharing are also notes that she doesn't eat behind shots. You'll never seen her face from the side I. Just want us just occasionally. See that tertir like down with dope. Just let the people have what they want and. I'm a feminist, but yesterday after three zoom. Kohl's, I said to a close friend. I am concerned that my Collagen game isn't as strong as I thought. I thought my Collagen was excellent, but now I see myself in a variety of lights with the worst possible cameras I've realized by Collagen isn't isn't the friend to me is an ally to me. That I thought it was and I'm especially looking at the college in my neck with some. Hurt that it has let me down at my in my hour of zoom need. Could it be the Collagen little bit like he ran out to is going when there's more people around or boost myself. Is just kind of. By it's just going, hang on out physically. What's the point of me reproducing myself when I'm going to use myself up over the years, may be taking nose. Chin Honda, testing, yes. -cation if you will or even if you weren't. Such a good opportunity to get a facelift before the end of locked out Collagen just that. I'll tell you think you're allowed to have a plastic surgeon in front room. I, think the rules. Breast slate. If you pay enough you can do. Anything is the truth. Yes, but they've just announced. It's illegal to have sex with someone WHO's not. You can't have sex with your plastic surgeon. Conscious pay someone to come round. So what could were twig? I lift, but they can't slip in. That's yeah. Absolutely that's it no kissing fieger. Doesn't matter how pretty I am now Gary Lucky I'm not dating a plastic surgeon. I'm feminist, but the virus has changed me. I used to feel sad about the murder victims in my true crime podcast Listen to that since I lost my job I'm he jealous if attention gets in. Wow. This is worse than flyweight has but. I realize now I need to give myself the world's greatest feminist award. You do all I. Do is Hope Paiko? Go Missing and that someone gets twelve episodes out of the story. Answer. Say that I do honestly so desperate for attention. Listen to be one of those people who pretends I'm GONNA. Pretend onsite vice my car that if you have missing now, people are GonNa. Go. She say what you do this. And that's a good episode of the podcast episode one she wants. It was only nine years later. localized. If I hear a tree podcast about you going missing and it sounds like your voice with a funny accent. I'm going to be incredibly suspicious that you're doing your own. I've gone missing podcasts. From a variety of bedrooms and kitchens via zoom, the spontaneity shop presents the guilty feminist with me. light guest Carlos Sara Pascoe and Special Guest Sarah Brown on Yeah speech. Talking about education. Thank you very much. This is the guilty feminist podcast in which weeks berendo goals is twenty-first-century feminists, poker and insecurities which undermine them. I'm Deborah Francois. White with our Pasco and we're talking about education. So Sarah. How has your week been? Have you in any way Sancho self educating yourself during lockdown this week? Yes, I am. I found a actually the whole of lockdown. Education has come from all different directions right from the beginning when I was listening to podcasts about the coronavirus and krona viruses in general and how viruses work in the body is something that. Suddenly I was thinking about every day. I've never thought about before and then I've learned a lot from social media. There's been discussions about race in recommendations of books about racism and again podcast and Ted Tolson usually what happens is if you have the same, you always put on your phone call. That sounds so interesting. Yeah, definitely GONNA do that. The one thing about being essentially unemployed is that you can you just Kinda I'll do it right now. And what about you? Yes, that's a really good point. When I'm charging around, I must look into. That must read that this last weekend. I got a a proof of Naked Shukla's new book. Brown baby, which is a sort of current memoir. He's writing about his life now, but luck. It's meme well. As occurrence. Current Memoir. That's very post postmodern. What is it like for Dr Raising. It's an establish apiece from a Sultana basically. said to cash. It feels the seventy more pull things you about pushes so many boundaries doesn't. He's based Judy humanizing. Yeah, he's basically said look I identify shriveled grape. ME. Yeah I would say. Let's say a memoir about yesterday and the day before and okay leagues his feelings right now. So. It's kind of really responsive as office happen. Yes it was about raising two daughters who are still very small and being a brown man, and having a brown baby and their place in the world. It's about race. It's about culture. It's about the death of his mother. It's so beautiful, but I've already learned to lot that. I think is assaults of. Intrinsic I've intrinsically something when you learn it inside of you Robert, intellectually, letting you. Know. It's the power of art. Is that ability to make you feel something? Not just make you know it, is it? Anything in lockdown. You feel the skill you couldn't do before. No, I really think. I intended to have some skills. Am I started playing guitar again? which I haven't played for about ten years, and what I've learned is the first four bars of a song from a star is born and I could play that full bars. Over and over again. Bronx I'll be now. You see how bad this skill is when I tried to I, tell us out of Jude. The great thing about a podcast. You can have four. So out of June as well right. We don't mind. We were having this. This isn't for the podcast. This is just befriends. So nervous now. This is just for friends, friends friends. Especially hard? As the first four bars, and that can just do that over and over again very good, and do you know what? Skin. Canary. Zoya Need Four bus patriot. She calls herself all the time. She does. Well I'm very impressed by that. Because I have lent play nothing on the guitar, but I also think the most important thing that we've taken away from. This is all the guilty feminists listeners are. Because they will all have A. Lot of my career. It's just been every time. I want to hate myself and. I'm not doing very well. I think just inspire people with your mediocrity. Your dreams, everyone. Could. Be Quite comedy and still be on television. I have the spirits of embracing mediocrity well in lockdown I. in week, one started dance lessons on. which I do every day with an amazing teacher called Melissa Bravo absolutely brilliant. If I'd seen her show real I never would have Melissa Bravo, yeah. Yeah, yeah wow! What else can I say I know I know and I've said to a you should call your school the Bravo Dansko, but if I'd seen her dance because she's a professional dancer, I never ever would have let her teach me because she has supernatural skills, and she's also an incredible teacher, because people who genuinely brilliant things they. Not very good teachers because they're like. Why can't you just do it because it's natural, but she is so excited by my progress. I've been dancing for like ten weeks now every day. And at the beginning of that like the just by as a teenager and stuff, but not very well very long, but I was the kind of person that you know sometimes a performer. They'll say oh. We're going to do this dance at the top of the show or whatever. When we did the whole, we did a cell block tango and McCain Jade Adams, who were leading it with musical, said we'll do some basic choreography, and on the kind of person will be like Oh my God. Everyone else is gonna be able to do it. If everyone's doing the Macarena Rossi, what are the steps, what are the steps and are panic, so I am not somebody who is natural with choreography. I can't see what you're doing and necessarily do it myself, but if you do anything every single day. You do get better at it and that is. My inspiration from lockdown is because I've done every day. or at least five or six days a week and it's something I. I like to practice so sometimes I'll just kind of do it from feeling a bit like got to be sitting down for like twelve hours I'll get up and do one of my routine Sarah. God I, actually now I know there's a lockdown. Really wish I lived with you because that would be such a fun thing. It's like you're watching coronation street, and then there's in your peripheral vision. SASHAYING Salim Business. He loves IT JUST COMES UP. Yes, and I'm closely routine to Christina Aguilera's shabby. Lisk Let's chew. and. Routine to the last twenty years of that. Really Uplifting Song, I used to run to it because that to the makes you really excited Yep makes me try. Doing a full into it Sarah come round. What do you call? But why am round the? Also did cell block tango with a musical with all the female Comedians, and we were so bad debts that they made all of us to stand aside clicking why susie ruffled did a top trumps. You must have actually been pretty good because we did. Click we proper hustle. This But we had to hassles, but it's an anti Bra and it's just too stressful. This labor. Up Attempts, what you're saying about doing something every day I think actually it's such an important thing to hear 'cause you may have written a book, and sometimes people think that things are really insurmountable. The things other people can do because it's magic the match. If anyone is listening. He wants to write a book. If you buy an email every day, you can book. It's not to mount after year. Put Together, and then you editor and make better is little things you think, publish actually. Add up all my emails that I've written in the. The appetite. This is how I know doing something every day makes you more capable is the other day. I had a supply teacher because Melissa was off and she said Oh. We'll do some salsa and Samba and south civil and goes salsa hip hop sure. And I mean it's just my life now. Guys. Yeah, and so she taught me this basic cell step and I did it, and then she was Oh and that she showed me again. She sort of getting ready to kind of UNPACK. You've just done it so she. We'll add on a bit more than shattered a bit more. And I did it, and then she went. How show up before and I said no, no, I haven't. She went I've never seen anyone. Do Minority grow in my life? He was salsa Jesus. She's like you'll though. This me ten weeks ago I was the person if they said Oh. We're going to do funny Oh. TAP shoulders tap the knees, something for a party or something I be like fuck. Can I get out of this room? Because everyone's going to be able to do it but me ten weeks later I am the fastest at loading salsa that this experienced teachers ever seen that is about having something every day. That has nothing to do with me. That's about daily daily anything. You want to put up a youtube video if you don't sound. Conscious talk about this on. You have to? It's about how good adults around. Doing, do sports or something. It's not good adults Ram and I think we need to make that no incredibly. Yeah it's a powder. How quickly my brain has got good see is oh newburgh. His. Brain so using itself differently when you do different functions. That's what I'm saying is my brain now looks at a step and my feet nowhere to go and copying, and that's something I've always been a bit scared off, but also is because you use your conscious brain less because it becomes muscle memory, so you don't have to consciously think. Put your arm over there your leg over there, and that's the little tiny thing that makes you forgets it. 'cause you consciously thinking about all the time, debs. I'm excited. I think he might do strictly contacts. She picks up. The dog's quicker than any other celebrity a high. He only had one day rehearsal you. Saturday on Tuesday because I'm already read. The secret! Pico, who I'm sure you know to. Come dancing traded also sauce. And she said at first it was like he was teaching a fridge to Warren, and she got so good she won, and she really looked like a dancer at the end. Yeah, I think I need to make this very clear to the BBC, not a strict become. Now know that that's what you should tell them. Because that's what they want, enough a Wigham, so say you should say that safe on really pass. People say that no, no I at balls. SAMNA female at Booz. There is pre cup. You'll be the success story of. Know, what I'm talking about. It's not how good I am, but how much improved I am, and how and how we can get better at anything that we decided to every day. Let's introduce our incredible guests. One point five billion children are currently out of school during this crisis, but before the pandemic hit, two hundred and sixty million children were missing out on school and education, entirely through poverty and missing life chances, or as refugees caught up in conflict and crisis. Sarah Brown is the chair of the Global Children's charity, their world that is working to bring an end to this global education crisis, one of their wells campaigns that met with success five years ago was to create a new multi-million pound fund specially to support education in emergencies. It is called education cannot wait and its first director. Yes, Maine Sharieff is here to police welcome Sarah Jazz me. Thank you so much for coming on. Sarah, could you tell us what is their world? Yeah, of course Deborah and thanks for continuing with the guilty feminist with the new at home format. Our visions don't have to leave the house so in many ways. It's a walk in the Park Sarah whereas what you're doing with. Their world sounds really difficult. What is it what they will the end during this lockdown? Actually we've been busier. Busier than ever, because you have to rejig every single project, so that it's safe for everyone who's taking part in it so all efficient there will to end the global education crisis unleash the potential of the next generation, which means that our mission is to ensure that every child has the best start in life. They have a safe place to learn and they have skills for the future. Future, so in practical terms, there's a lot, but we do a top-end with policy research and engaging with partnerships. We've always wanted to forge your way to work with the people who are ready working successfully and to find the bit that's missing so the big agencies, the big UN agencies, the big charities that aside well known do their job fantastically, but have needed us to come in an. An unlock some of the political whale and the financing that needs to get down, and then working at the other end with grassroots organizations on the ground where we looking to support really innovative work and to bring our campaigning work there and education cannot wait was an important move for us because going back just five years. You couldn't actually fund education in a humanitarian crisis which sounds crazy. Why was not so education was a whistling. That was there for in Development World International Development to try and reach children, who, in the poorest and the hardest circumstances, but when a crisis erupted whether that was a draft on land, way, families were forced to get getting southwest. Just came the possible, all wore an increasingly. We've got so many areas of conflict or recovering from conflict around the world in the Humanitarian Weld which is extraordinary on effective, the priorities would be nutrition, water, sanitation, emergency, medical care and shelter and safety. Yeah, allegation just wasn't in the mix and because there was so. So much needed, and also these like St with us. Let's deal with those things for us. If somebody's sitting, they're hungry. They're not going to be learning. You know they need a medical care. Those would be the priorities, but over time all perception of what's needed has changed the reality for refugees is that they can be a refugee for a very very long time, and the average now is calculate be if it's not realistic to do this, but if he bought every refugee in the well together, and took the average of how long they refugee for it somewhere around seventeen eighteen is. One seven eight. Yes, so if a mothers giving birth to a baby just as I found the forced to flee the likelihood, if that child spending their entire childhood early adulthood as a refugee is high, so it's not good enough anymore to say. Let's just put in emergencies. You absolutely need those and that it was Asians that do that all phenomenal, but it just came time in this world to say. We have to start investing in education with any humanitarian context. And it took a long time on. That will teamed up with everybody. Could we got all the different NGOs on board? The UN agencies, the businesses of young youth groups who wanted to come pay, and doggedly worked away on a campaign, called the world at school, and got ten million signatures together to take to the Secretary General at the U N. Five years ago we were at something grandly cooled the world humanitarian summit where everyone agreed that an organization could exist. That would fund education in emergency settings and has happened, and not only that under yes, means leadership has turned into the most extraordinary active successful organization. Yeah, when I was going to ask to Yasmine, can you tell us about the last five years? Whatever cheat, thank you very much first of all. Thanks Sarah for inviting me to. This is exciting to listen to you to be part of this very excited. Thanks and And also to show how dreams can come true if you're really determined because that is how education cannot wait straight through all the other cassie that was led by Sarah Brown than the award and on the front lines, so I felt when I can. Here's this beautiful vision. I mean just incredible vision to deliver education to seventy five million children of whom thirty nine million or guards in the most abnormal circumstances on the globe in conflicts in Syria in Afghanistan and shaw the Nigeria Drouhin Gals so the dream. Is there they have? To this, and now my job is to make that a reality. This is what I like is like this. Woo going to make this happened. Yeah the great vision you know so. When we started to worry about the hounded donors had already been collected in connection with water monetize summit. It'd be a very high targets. How much we have to raise and the also had to get out this old enough to raise funding. We have to go out. Reach the call them. Those left voters behind those are the ones who are living in Taleban girls and Taliban areas enough honest on children and young people living in one of the. The, twelve militia controlled areas of central Africa Republic I mean really difficult. Circumstances said yes, made say. How does that work because you say that to me and I feel like and astound the research phase where he couldn't even go. Okay that there are people that, but how do you then go now? We get to those children you when you come in like doctor, do diagnosis like what's wrong new while ours are not investing in education of children in crisis. Things wrong because like. The order to speak about investing in the human capacity produce also our pirates. Education's the most important in the budgets for your household budget, so it's like why not investing in the human being in a Sarah, said I mean refugees seventeen years. If you're not gonNA invest something is wrong and what we discovered. That do her many funds doing education out there. They were operating system pilot doing their own things in pilot. So this said you know what. You like it or not. There is a big organization called. The United Nations Been Hundred Ninety three member states, and they have four to forty years experience in coordinating and helping us to reach those kids. System to be going create some parlance. System goes. Into that system of mobilized that system to have also deliver education and mobilize resources so. They used you and multilateral system for our goals now revision. Yeah, that's amazing There's a whole framework already in. That you can utilize rather than if I decided it. Oh, I! Think I'm going to go to Afghanistan. You you're not starting over again. With things hugely at scale and say, use the system in use waltz already built, but yes I making what very fast the point about any humanitarian response is. It's got to be very quick so when you'll moving time side hustle. Well, yes, Maine can move announcing if if it's gathered there within a matter of weeks to get that you'll always have the people who putting into shelters Putin things. We didn't go into the big system and the same Old Thing v wet in Charlotte assist them. Now we have to move it speed to do things if disobey be didn't succumb because it can also be a big brokers. No because I notice speed, you got to China. She's GonNa. Do it differently, and we got them with us, so it's not like using the system acid war. It was a new system. Yes, mean you have such an incredible energy. I bet you really do speed people that like you you make. Absolutely, what do you need? My tactic is to spend especially the donors up to such an extent say take take this thing. Just leave just leave. I'll get whatever you want. I am particularly interested in the Mariah camp. On Lesbos because Josie Norton from help. Refugees took me there, and it was the most life changing experience and I think I didn't realize until I got there. What a privilege it was to get to go in, and you know we had to show our ID and they would really not letting anybody in unless they were like. Other people who work with Josie had to stay outside like year K. we can take you one other the biggest impact of anything because I went and so lots of grass, rich charities and foundations and organizations, some run by refugees who had formerly been displaced, but now have status in Greece and choose to work with refugees and the thing that impressed me most was a Gecko kids school run by. By incredible woman called Elena, she has to work at lots and lots of different speeds because she said you'll get like an eleven year old, who's been fully fully fully educated in his completely advanced and an eighteen year old, who's never been to school and you have to teach those young people side by side and the thing. That I took away more than anything was. How unbelievably driven those young? Young people were to learn I've never seen anything like it I found distressing. How focused they were I went into a science class, and all of these young people were all just they all live in a refugee camp, and it's just like a horribly overcrowded refugee camps tend to tend to ten with very basic facilities. That was a prison camp, so it's an awful place live, but the school is. Is like a little town house, Little Town House you go up and the teachers are really lovely, and these kids when they're in that room are hundred percent focus, and they're all at helping each other. If they don't understand something, they put the hand up and ask was a child in a Greek language. Cost broke my heart because he was so smart and he was like desperately writing things down. Trying to understand them at the men, because the difference between him, understanding Greek or not, understanding Greek is the difference between him. Maybe, living dying, having an opportunity, being able to get food, being able to get a visa. That's the thing. Isn't it as necessary to ask so and he has mean when you grew up in a country, we take education school for granted. It's not about being able to speak French it's about. Your Work Life Your communication your vote as a citizen later thinking specifically about the Maria campaign in this is actually a really good example of an place to start that come is so overcrowded on the daily experience of those young people who that is the so little to do the thing I found a going there I observed, was that desperation of these long hours each day, just waiting, waiting, waiting and so little to do, and that appetite for education is so high, and that's an experience wherever you meet refugee families. Parents would always say a just want to make sure we've got enough to survive. And then my priority is the education of my children and the same with children. That's their driver. Driver partly for their future, but partly for their daily life, otherwise the autumn of sitting doing nothing is so sold a story, so in Maria Cam, the Gecko school is a wonderful school, but it can only accommodate small number of the people that do that, so the plan with their world and education kind of wait. Working together is to fund education sentence that we've now got approval. Adjust offsite, so they're able to leave go to them, and where coodinating funding is already one in place now for Maria looking for other camps around those islands working with sport with the Greek government supports are happening because they're quite keen for refugees to keep moving. They don't want them there for too long. But. We know that some people there for just a few weeks before they get their papers to transit on. Others can be there for around two years as an awfully long time for child to Miss School, what was the amount of young people in children and this? Not Be other Maria campus built for your may be no better than I deborah investing recent, but it's built for about three thousand. Will you last I was reading? Yeah? Round lost up, so it was already tripled over the capacity, and it's now about eleven thousand. I think it's just impossible. I think it's more than that now, and then it's going up up up way. You've got numbers that aren't accounted for because they're in that land beyond the camp Algiers more like fourteen thousand now. But even be wrong and it's going up, so there's no sign of it going down. There's not been a lot of. Opportunity for young people to move onto the mainland and keep moving visas, so you're just building up program and also this school is not for the families of thousands of people the Scotus. Anna Horon. It is an extraordinary human being and a brilliant brilliant indicator, and they adore her, but the one thing that really really touched me was that she said Oh yesterday we had these children come in and say we are not in the advanced English class and we want to go up a great, and she said well. You have to an exam and you have to pass the exam. They said we know and we're ready. We want to do it and she said if you don't pass it, you have to keep learning and do it again. We said we know and we WANNA do it tomorrow. And these other kids heard and came over. And when we want in, we want in on this. We want to be in the top class. It sounds wonderful to hear teenagers being like that, but actually when you're there, you sort of walk. Some hijinks want some teenage undermining the teacher kind of thing. You think these children should be having a childhood. It's this sort of like I wanna be able to speak English bullet because that's my charity. That's my survival and when we learn French high school, it's about passing. An exam is about Jesus. It's about maybe being able to speak up it the French on holidays, but do we really care about that? No, we just think. His boring verbs and so. I thought when I saw these was. Every country in Europe should be down there with a bind distinct. Please come to us you are. One hundred percent the. Happening Deborah and you know that's not happening and it's well as shot. Does young people in the country, the individual countries around Europe not one of them is stepping up to fund education, which is why they're will work together in donates to get these things started. It's why education way stepped up and out system to make them happen, and so the front facing part of the work is, he has made and her team in their lobbying to get the sense created making sure that the best teachers are available, and they're fantastic people who are prepared to devote time to teaching and to build different shifts, so you can accommodate large numbers of people coming in at different times, also the ability to be able to Putin social distancing. If we've got that to consider. This isn't something it's GonNa fade extra. We're going to ask you which is how has the pandemic affected? Learning in refugee camps and refugee camps in general your work partly to make us go back, I was going to say the behind the scenes. Pace is to actually go, and actually go to the European Union ask them to come up with the money, because it's too hard to put on the shoulders of charities like health refugees to think that their donations will go A. That will fund education. We need some of these bigger financing to step up so the pandemic on a day to day life where camps have had to go into lockdown I think it's been pretty grim for them. On the other hand. It was the mainland that actually had the cases. And they had short periods of lockdown where absolutely no one was going inactive camps and I think that was quite hairy time to kind of. Lemon as it has been everyone, but to be in that situation. which was you just don't know what the next day the next week is going to bring where you'll freedoms all being eroded all the time, but the opportunity. If the incentive is, you can create something where you can put the flexibility to have socially distance ways of being there as long as camp isn't under lockdown, also working with all these new ways to use technology, the two things have been real life savings for the. The mind has been What's up and enable stream learning through it and a shortwave radio to chat lessons, but for children who were there? We've been getting stuff in there. In with senator it's going is putting writing materials exercise books and things like that and then classes running from whatsapp videos and Joe Wave Radio, and we all of that with about in Africa where when everyone was really really under lockdown in the house is, everybody's still wanted to learn, and then education kind of. To be able to say right really quickly, we can mobilize the resources the materials to get in there while it's an emergency. Sommese, so I wanted to ask you. The the wider question about kind of goes in education, because across cultures across the world and. More commonplace, it's people. Call was a Ford to. Reach out education to goals or they don't get educated to as old in age and something, obviously that their world is really focusing on your way passionate about girls, and all handcrafted across it. Yes, Maine in a minute, but just to. I the thing that really hits home for me. Is that around the world? Two thirds of the people that are if you take illiterate people while two-thirds of them, women who say all by the ones you've missed out on school they went chosen in. FM need to go to school, but it's does. Mothers are to raising their children so the knock-on effect for their for their education for the health for the the what they can. And the thing that's always struck me with girls is for every young girl in sub Saharan Africa. That gets a chance to go to school for each year. That would improve her earnings by ten to twenty percent. But that which is such an extraordinary thing, just one year of school age are talented investing in women, and then what they do to the economy i. mean that's that's the numbers right? There show you that you get. Countries are starting to understand that where education ministers finance ministers in making decisions I think they're understanding more and more, and when you look across the area, it's not so much goes missing out going to school, but now we've got fight to make. Make. Sure they stay at school for as long as the boys did. Because the susceptibility chop marriage to FDM all the things that will take them out of school That's where the fight is to get them. Stay there, and the other big discrepancy in the world is in urban areas. You've got almost equal numbers of boys and girls at school, but it's the rural areas where the girls are risk because they're at home. They're working than looking after younger children. But it makes so much sense. If a sets up in assessing way, it's expensive to send to go to school to send anyone to school. And then you don't have enough prospects to make money often, of course if you need a pair of hands helping the House. With far more family business. Of course, it makes sense for you to go. Will that person has to stay home and do the work? Force education loss of course empower them. An education cannot wait has invested in today. beat. You're delivering through our partners. Quality Education to four million children in over the past three years, reached forty four million children and youth. Hof are guards fifty percent, nearly fifty percent of them are girls, and there are countless, maybe even exceeded that targets like Afghanistan, regards for a long time for many years, who really locked up at home and absolute, not even allowed to. Be reached. All our investments are include sixty percent guards, and the same in Nigeria where Gorz, very leaving very risky life. You have this book. Haram Been Kidnapped for them. Education is empowered. Put a few shirt. Here. into mind that girls are two and a half times more likely of not attend primary school and ninety percent of guards. In this conscious of armed conflict and crisis do not even attend secondary school. If you know you have to move on to secondary school at the minimum I mean perform even tortured occasion the least secular schools, so they're completely excluded now because if the dangers you, the dangerous or type is the shine only shot marriages, so they'd get mired away when they are in twelve thirteen years because the tires in some their daughter of. Of Twelve to some old man, and they get some money to Labone, then yeah, the trafficking and be not trafficking is very organized, and when you have a conflict, you have a war, economy and trafficking is popped them prostitution, so the girls them for play to that they'll because you have conflict. There's a lot of anger in violence overruled in the air. And who do they take it out on at? told the domestic. At home outside, they take it out on the female population, the wives sisters, their guards, and the sexual gender based violence, because rape for instance is a metal warfare. You want to fight her enemy rape their women, and that's why swim port in all our investments. If you have realistic approach, so there has to be protection. You need to be protected in school. In moment I've seen school environments where anyone can yes walk in and grab a good and disappear so just building Walson having guards, and making sure up. They're secure. They're training the teach stand. The the respect for guards, and also how they teach three boys and girls in class and get the game. Game to require them and making sure that girls can go to do their Sunday tation the hygiene in separate toilets that allow them. They can't go to school, and even when the mainstay I mean. That's a huge barricade barrier for God's I. Think this is such a huge thing for western women, and not just listeners to hear about because quite often people. Especially you'll think Oh i. hate trafficking happens. How can I help I hate that is raping. Were all people are very against child marriage, the thinking about education as a form of protection from those things so amazing to have a useful approach to it rather than this is terrible. I wish it didn't happen. And it doesn't have to. Come from a global health background, yes, means from human rights background as a lawyer, and both of us have found ourselves on. This path is converged where you say I've spent all my life fighting to stop things happening things. It shouldn't be happening now we can. If you find your way to education, you'll finding something you can build that. Go provide a kind of protective. Protective surrounding entity as well as that Rafa, the glorious opportunity for learning at the center I'm we do face a world where young people increasingly been denied the chance to have the skills that they need for the future, and this opens up that opportunity, because if we have a world where young people don't have skills to be able to be employed or to employ themselves. They're going to be pretty furious. Yet so onerous. It's in all of our interest to act and move with this, and it's such a simple step to take and our job I think is really to be getting in there and unlocking that political will unlocking that funding. So you know the what to support a charity like help refugees that guilty feminists does is absolutely vital, because you know this on the ground work. That is every single day providing. Providing support and help and opportunity for people who are in crisis, but an we will work alongside them or ways that I think the opportunity we have at their world and working with education cut way is to batter down some of the doors that we know we can get access to and vying get some of those big financing decisions, but it all lives around. We can't do it if we don't get. Back from people so rather than being a charity that says. Can you help you donate here I? Think everyone should gone donates to help refugees now, but the help that we need is people going onto their website and signing up to support petition that says right now. The thing we need is the support unlock that financing for the Greek islands and for the refugees. Well, the listeners heard you say moving. Very motivated it's Deborah's listeners aren't. We're very lucky to guilty feminist army that we're all part of is very active. So what do we do to help? We go to their world website. Go do their world dot org. There's a fantastic newsletter. You can sign up for free that once a week will put information into your inbox. That just gives you stories. Lots of them very positive about what young people doing whether learning actually you have you have lots of youth ambassadors, and actually the thing that's reading credible seeing what young people do for other young people in how young. Young people understand education while they're within it. You invest in a cohort around a thousand global youth pastors there in ninety countries around the world, but they each of them lead their own organization their own movement, so when we have a part of the world where we need to say right, let's put the ask that we need to unlock funding here. We do it every time. That's a conference for the Syrian refugees for the financing will do it when there's an emergency situation education cannot wait has a fundraising round where all of our. Time busters Sunday used the network so that they're writing in directly to the political leaders and decision makers and influences. You can make a decision, and they're not mighty fourth. So we can add our voice and our power and show US knee repugnance for displaced people, losing out in education and goals being overlooked in education. If we go to their world T. H. E. I. R. World Dot, Org and please read up on. Education cannot wait and give money. It's really nice to have positive constructive things to think about because I think quite often, people are so overwhelmed with things that they know should be better. I think that's why. Their world it's so great to hear about what they're doing. Is You go, Bubba? There's ways of healthier. I think also when it comes to their rewarded, education cannot wait I think your organization's been boots. Bats maybe are something that deep can relate. Not Dusty bureaucracies. You are. VR You know there's there's there's a force behind this, and it's the new way of doing things. Don't changing the ward. The old is no long ago into shake up and I are you have to be much more forceful, passionate nothing? That's what they're wrote in. Education cannot wait represents, and when be joined forces to become very powerful, and the goal is to get everyone to join forces with US everyone. Say Much confidence in the fact that you're going to be the person who gets absolutely everyone doing it. Pushes as Sarah? Yes I. Yes mistake she goes there and tries to make them really enthusiastic, and if that doesn't work, she just doesn't leave until they do it anyway. It's a good one. It's a really good and I look forward to visiting less again and seeing the schools and education centers that you were. And visit because I found the children heartbreakingly keen, and I just thought God. I wish I'd been that keen about studying when I was A. I was raking study, but nothing in that in that realm tour, but then my survivor didn't depend upon it, and that was my privilege to be able to look out the window during maths. Thinking this is boring. I just think it's something we've all got to pull together on. And if you have any money, you can donate it to help. Refugees choose DOT Gov. Vagina have any money because of the lockdown. Other people do some people still have the full time jobs and got nowhere to spend their usual disposable income late. There's the pubs on open the gym memberships are suspended. Pizza Express isn't expressing any pizza, so says some of those friends who got full-time jobs. Hey, what are you doing with all that money? Could you give something to choose love this month, could you? Also posting online going. Oh, I have just looked this amazing organization and I find this interesting. I've signed up for the newsletter. That kind of involvement. When you say, we're movement. That's how you move it you. Yes, avenues. Sensory the rate. It's not to address. It just comes once a week, but it's always got an action there, and you can take, but the big action at the moment is to get the European Union to understand that it is time for all the European countries to stop you know mucking around and. Step up and none of them have put money into education yet individually they can do it after that collective bucket. I mean Europe has been proud of being advocates human rights. The more CRA say an what right now. No one is complying with international refugee. No as ours. Greek islands are concerned. No one in Europe is upholding those rights, saying the support his reputation, and that's a pretty dangerous off. That Europe is taking so the. The appeal is also. It's better to live up to your stylus. If you won't have that more on authority, you create them now you better be part of them and make them happen, and the children on the Greek ominous are has explained the someone I've seen a lot of Humanitas. He thresholds that is probably the most discussing and painful situation. I seen in many years the one shilling the Greek island. Yeah, it's very sort and. And yet they get up everyday ready to learn looking absolutely immaculate with their hair, Don's teenage kids with cool hair and doing amazing. No fly away us. They may king all effort they are. They are wow. Wow, outfits and good hair, and and doing amazing art project, some of the most incredible photographs I've ever seen in my life and you're like. They put us to shame anything that you do will be so overly appreciated by those young people world refugees coming up on the twentieth of June. So there's a big focus right now. I'm getting global funding lined up to make announcements around that date. So do you know when the time is to give a good push for their world petition? Now. Now is a good time, but any other campaigns you spots that will be raising the profile, and how much public support there is to give refugees a better deal everywhere, so World Refugee Day twenty th of June. Put in your calendar and shout about it because refugees do not have a home. They're displaced and they don't have a government that they can. Can say too. Ooh, could you help us? They've got vote. And also it just seems like lots of governance. If citizens on saying I care about refugees, aunt, donating the money on putting the money in because they assume that their citizens don't care, we have to show them only to really do we do candidates in votes? UK is not excused from this because. We for some reason have left the European, union, you know. We are still in Europe and we still need to pull await along with the European Union. Thank you so much Sarah and he has made. Thank his anything. You came to say that you didn't get to say that you would like to say. If you want to play the guitar offered. Something Decent dancing to other if you. Spot. ME. Yeah. No I'm very happy to be here in a love, your approach look forward to see more support for diverts advocacy for the children and you know their. Nationality is on the Greek island and support from Europe financial support. You know the difference between a child who cannot read on rights. And one that can, and what stands in between that financing. It's find those that's. The other thing that I've learned from. Years of being on the inside of making out is that moment where political leaders make a decision and how they make decision, and you may not think that your one petition. Click or your letter that you right makes a difference, but I have seen remarkably few signatures make a politician. Sit Up and take notice and I've been in rooms off. You know world leaders sitting together, and you have a few minutes where their attention is focused on it and they make a quick, yes, or no, but if the work's been done where voices have come together to say, we want this. This politicians don't like being unpopular. They liked to say yes. To a lot of people I think that's empowering to remember. People can care a lot, but can be interpreted as apathetic because they don't vocalise anything so the idea that by putting something on a petition actually for politicians. That person must really care. They've gone to all of this efforts, and that's what's important to remember when we can quite often feel like nothing does matter that we do just one person who cares that you could be the tipping points going. Oh, my gosh. Three hundred people sent yesterday. Wow, yeah. Well you know that. If three hundred people have written, there's many people thinking you can feel the same way absolutely true. Supply US out? It's the incredible grace. Patriot and Folk Ben Grace. Joining us. Thank you very much. Sound dreadful to you know. Okay. Yeah, it sounds dreadful to us. But as long as it doesn't sound, do. And So. Then the Van Faked Moss got accidentally quarantined at my house. We I think it's just wonderful. Casper we on tour in Australia together when? Karenna hit and. We had to fly home and. Four? Ben is been here ever since. The somebody's. Kidnapped, so mom. Skin looking to US flat. Can chip in with headphones. This is. What we should play all it's. Just reading the book to someone ring the police. We believe Ben Moss has. Been Kidnapped. Again we believe for keeping Moss has been kidnapped Oh sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's Eric. Code on the. Resolutions! Get enough to pick out one say. You could do a lot worse, sunshine and What we did is. Star lockdown! We started doing an alphabet of cover songs, and we did one a day overseas twenty six days. We started raising money for the big issue. which I just WANNA. Give another quick plug because. Obviously during the coronavirus crisis, spend discount. Sell the big issue on the streets where they normally would do so It's very worth if if your listeners, they're interested in taking out a subscription to the biggest, she that's something you can do during lockdown, but we thought we would give you. A. Bit of All Saints to to play here. This is my favorite one of the entire alphabet did so and is for never ever. Take it away mosman. Is. One. Of. The few. A needs. The. High? Needs to know was done wrong. Sting. Who? Was it that. Paid enough attention. Did I know it gave enough affection. They will around keeping me sane girl known. Sine steady guy. Yuki Sal me to. Read it. In a letter to the Either way a native. I. Did I. Never Treat You I. Did I always start the fine? either. I'm going out of my mind all the answers to my questions I have five. Boy Men. Feel is. Don't WANNA commuting. Say, I will. Find Peace Mine now. On, yes. I'm you Larry Runs through? The? Promenade said in. mind. Macon's assessing. Account! Raise. Deng La. On. because. Understanding Song. Avenue, sauce. Away I'm. Glad Anna. Baseline. Conscience. The way of. Just? Take. Out of these black. Salsa. Really bad. A? Mind Navin. By way of being and yet it just don't feel right. Chiefs Deep within. For All the. Hard No. I, need these. Needs to. Be Free from. Yes. Thrive. Size. You'RE GONNA. What's his. Need. And? Old? Way. I'm really bad. Way, Away had. So. and. Away Avenue. supplied. It's. System. Have a have a Haberfeld Solo. Me Out of this black Oh never ever had a have felt so sad. Camby and being yeah Yami feeling really paddock. Had To. Go Way to old peace of mind. Instead. Eight just. Feel you. Thank you thank you Grayson for? That was absolutely brilliant. and. We Italy even though the lyrics very sad to four better good always. Nicer I felt myself dancing now. Because as you know, I'm a professional dancer. And I just. I did want to say from early when said. That skill of learning choreography is going to go in two weeks of me stopping dancing. If I start dancing tweaks to I'll be back to. Stop I'M NOT GONNA. Stop. I'm not gonNA stop, but I'm just saying it's a temporary state, because I didn't want someone in six months time when I'm in another country on tour with the feminist to be like. Oh, you're really good at choreography. I don't to be held to this standard that I've set up myself to the rest of my life. It's possible challenges. And it just like. In practice it's possible or go back to being a career. Dumpty is what I'm saying and I want to reserve the right to be able to go back to unscheduled. The navy bits baby in the. Sixty guilty providence with me Mike. Sarah Pasta with various Social Sarah Brown. Yes me, schrief use it from price. Maitree Ben Moss. To stay chewed was composed by hawk. Hodge of she's Sheldon Produce. Was Thompson it's. Snakes show next Prophet Cheetahs yet. Everyone might upside happens. Business. About this other episodes feminist. I'll call. And Yes Maine Sharieff and Grace Patriots. Not Grace is not really talking about she going to feel grace pay I think I should say with do we cyclades Patriot Folk Cuban or now at this point? Well, he's. Very much. Yeah. I think I should say Yep, okay we. We come as a package these days. What's your dog's name? My Dog's name is frank. Sorry, he's only because. Faulk if he's anywhere else in disrupt. Yeah, that's the same. My boyfriend says. Take the dog in the garden. Yeah exactly. They they think which is talking to ourselves what? Doing Yeah. Yeah. So I. Thank you so much to all of our patients, but especially those who are supporting us at the smashed the Patriarchy level, or above Valerie Mar, Sarah Belka Jonquil, Okoye Sarah Brown Rivers Thomson Sarah Boom and Philip Englehart.

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220. Everyday Contributions to Feminism with Tiff Stevenson

The Guilty Feminist

1:12:58 hr | 2 months ago

220. Everyday Contributions to Feminism with Tiff Stevenson

"I'm a feminist, but it's possible. It's is definite. That I might have. Came, on tour. Okay. I'm onto I'm currently in San Francisco. Business Go. Sound of the feminist of San Francisco. On a Friday night there. There are a bit drunk it's Friday night. Friday night trump's in power. They're all very drunk. So. The last place I was in Vancouver. and. It's possible that I realized when unpacked my suitcase in San Francisco's this morning. It's possible. Maybe be very be very definitely. That I left my vibrator in the Vancouver Hotel Ra-. Beds. I am far far too embarrassed to ring up and claim it. Just can't just can't they just Hollow. Did you find something in the bed a little? It was such a good one as well. It was like a little compact one very so good. It was a vibe. It's the best ever had I don't know if it's called travel why but just a little guy that's why I call it just easy and it travel vibe. It's my year round to be honest. But he just travels. Well, I have a holiday vibrate. Anymore. Because in Vancouver I'm sure they threw it away rightly with some gloves. I'm a feminist BOPs I. Just had a Brazilian. Some of your applauding I was very anti I thought was anti-feminist. I. Thaw it was kind of encouraging always due to the porn occasion of society I thought was infantilized. vaginas very anti it for a long time and then I'm I got some grey periods. And they all had to go. Closing down. So they left to go sit exchequer everything off. Everything off seventy percent of everything because what happens seventy percent off his about Ryan do for me I mean drip obviously everyone should have what everyone wants and each individual wants and if you only have ever done it, you should absolutely let it grow in see what feels like but I have experienced all of the different levels and I unlock it fairly smooth I'm sorry I know I like it fairly smooth because living in a patriarchy but I still do what you're GonNa do. Well I've had it fall but what happens is when the gray's come, there's like squirrels the invasive gray's come in. and. Just knock indigenous reds. Oh. So, we're looking at a fairly streamlined Sich. I am a feminist Bart. The other day my friend had a baby and she what's up me a picture of the baby and I was like Oh my gaunt that baby is so beautiful and I write back. She's such a little person most babies at the age of just squish bugs. But Yours is gorgeous and I had to stop myself from writing your baby is hot. Also. Why am obsessed with this baby's cosmetic appearance and then I, thought well, that's all. I know about it. It doesn't have a blog. There's nothing else. I love it. Baby is a perfect on lake. Seven. Holes yet. Oh calm the fuck on they wake you up like seven for flatmate today if your roommate woke you up eight times a night. Demand with the MOMS to suck on your breast. You'd be like you have to leave. You have to leave depends by X. watching and my friend note. I'm a feminist I've started using the phrase making a mother to open all of my conversations. And don't have kids. I just feel it gives moral superiority. Wherever Bullshit opinion? I'm about to spill full. But aren't you doing a show called mother I'm doing share about being stepmother I am actually technically a stepmother. Yes weekly clinically yes. Technically otherwise it in that way I think historically, we've we've been view quite well stepmother's I think there's no mean all the stories you come up. The. Evil Queen Snow. Gretel. Grab Julia. Roberts in step mom to marry each one, a career what a bitch. Personal Favorite Lady Tremaine from Cinderella. She's my favorite. Oh. Yeah. Don't be that kind of stem mom I'm a feminist part. I'm doing the show in California tonight is the first. Guilty feminist in California on this tour and so I did think to myself. You're in California Jon, Hamm in California. He might come. So I took extra time worrying about what to wear just because I thought if you're in the same state is Jon Hamm. Just, get ready. Because you know when he might just just to check Jon Hamm in. Nov.. JOHNNY BACON MIGHT BE A. Distant relative. I'm a feminist, but I'm into problematic eighties hair rock. Few others love Motley, crue guns, and roses. Like I love those girls, girls, girls when I went to Hollywood, for the first time I was I can't wait to sunset strip and go past whiskey Gogo and it's like I love the music sung by men who will give you hepatitis. From the pacify. Or in San Francisco. Presents the. With made his wife and host chip? Stephen. Token Should. This is the guilty feminist, the podcast in which weeks around noble goals, twenty-first-century feminists in the hypocrisy in securities undermine them. I'm Deborah prompts us with me as tiff Stevenson, and today we're talking about our everyday contributions to feminism. We're all doing something. We've all got a story to tell how are you have you had a feminist week guilty week. I've had all of the weeks I mean I told myself I was too fat to go and Barney's for the sale a couple of days ago. That's pretty I'm feminist. Isn't it? What you just in your head side just went? Like, really get the old into critic came out and I really, and then I went over and where do you know what sunglasses don't give a shit? So I got over it quite quickly. Upon these, I don't to disparage Bonnie's, but I think a lot of shops of that genre. Are not very size inclusive. No, you just feel that you're being judged when you walk in. The second you sort of go in and people are you going to try that I didn't say out loud but they do in Paris. I was shopping in Paris wants the lady just looked at me and went? No. No No, and she just basically said, don't get out of my shop. You're too big for all of the things that I was like, would you have this? No. We have this. and. That's what we have in if you don't come in that size. Out of my shop. They, they want you to everyone wants to be zero. I want to be nothing. Thank you zero I know signed. So wrong isn't it? How could he be a size zero? It's this constant drive for women to become invisible and I don't think it's an accident. No that that the Patriarchy wants us to be invisible. Men should be as big as possible and women should be smallest. I think so and also I felt a bit back because everyone was mourning the end of Barney's. But I was a bit like I went in there because it was a sailor knows that Oh, even with seventy percent off I, cannot afford it. No I don't feel bad about it. Really Bonnie's you can't fit into it and you can't afford it. We closing down that closing down wind. Sorry. Now I feel bad because people will work there and some people will miss it. I think I in rich people will miss it will. Very very, very petite, very wealthy women will be just that the probably not here tonight that we ping. We. Pink. For barneys. Things, they probably sought those dot shirts. They were the ones that got me. I did really have a moment. Deorbit out that. We should have we feminist Asia seven hundred dollars. Yes and went up to a size twelve and I was like cool. Just some people can be feminists. So. Yeah. I feel sad for the people losing their jobs but I don't know that anything should cost as much as some of the stuff in there. 'cause there was a book on Barbra Streisand Gray as Bob's is it was a coffee table book seven, hundred and fifty dollars. At that point though isn't it? Just it's deliberately price that way so that the person who buys it feels important if no intrinsic value to that and Barbra streisand if you're in, we love you. Would by any reasonably priced coffee table book? Of Yours. In She'll be singing memories. I thought it happened and I'm old power. All Paktika is of my mind a Macho Macho Bette Midler when I'M And Bets Feisty. Is Amazing. Although I always think feisty is a word we preserved for women with opinions. You never a man is never described as feisty I'm going to start doing it. Yep. May to the next place I leave from here and I'm the only guy your stay Yeah. Yeah Very. SASSA. What a strong independent mom With the We got to stop doing this guy. Exactly you are a king you are. We should've the introduction I'm going to say live from the Finance Theater in San Francisco, and you are going to break into spontaneous. Applause. Opening titles that you hear when you listen on the if you don't listen opening titles. Me We missile this excellent bit before the podcast, the battery bit no. The edited in perfect. It'll be edited in. I don't WanNa miss you. Go Guy No. If you if you're listening to the super tight for. Tonight you're going to find out just how good our editor his. When you listen to you like they didn't say that they didn't say that was not order. It's the magic of the edit. which is nine tenths of the success of the show you're about to find. A man in the front merger said seamless. Seamless. Wasn't sarcasm because men allowed in this show. You're allowed mild irony, but we will decide what mild irony goes. It's the reverse for us when we're in the workplace and men get to decide what's emotion. That's how she's so emotional and it did you see that study that came out that said men at three times emotional the workplaces women. and. That's because we're not allowed Charlotte with a frightened of showing our motions at a workplace whereas men alike. Because I think that isn't an emotion. They think that's them not suffering them. They think that's leadership. Neutral, Dan. Men. Are Allowed to I'm you're not you're? Not you're in the front row of the guilty feminist well on you. You'll lovely where you in anyway concerned about being in the Front Rosa. You got up early to go and buy the tickets your wife. Interesting. Is she found of the show you've funds collectively. hoped they're turning their turning don't take it back. Take it back. You said she's a big the new all bought. But we both listen. So you listen. Sufferings. It's possible. She's making you to send for a reason. She's here to learn. Possible should listen more always. A question to ask though you know we we suppress our emotions. I've quite in the lift like Samantha didn't sex in the city. Jewish, she nearly didn't get the job with Dick Alicia. Richard Yeah yeah so I loved it, which is Dick don't be so judgmental anyway she. He's If they know you can do that. They will reboot the fuck out of that movie. She's the only one that come back I'm telling you tips. Often titled. Desperate to another movie, you could use a little backdoor. She could. She could do Kim. Cottrell. I'm I just don't think sap knows about this now I should but could not be wherever to was because that was horrific. That ruined the whole franchise for me I still have a good over it. It's kind of watching your best friend have sex with your husband or something i. don't know just like somebody. Tell me into some people might be into that for me. It was awful. When it happened I wasn't a knee I cried. About sex. Or are we talking about a time when your partner had sex with a friend? Sexy too because I can't on the here the line Lawrence of my Labia. Come on. Now it's forever with you your welcome. Though it was, it was terribly totally out of step with Zeitgeist the way when they got to wherever they were in some. Thank you Abbott Abby. Thank you. Of course, I could ask any question about sex city this we'll get the. They got trauma. Dhabi them all in a separate stretch limo. And they all accepted that didn't go very bad for the environment. We will go in one it would be a lot more fun. They all went in their own limo and I was like what you've have you not read anything since it was like everyone being frozen in ASPIC. Since the last film. had no sense of also cultural appropriation. Terrible terrible things in that film and I'm still angry about it. I'm mostly angry that she in her forties with two apartments in Manhattan and still was running in and going. By the time you're forty five either learn not to kiss people at on your husband if you can't handle it all kiss people don't want your husband and shut the fuck. Only. Cute until thirty seven and then you've got to stop. The call. When you can't pay your rent your of a mess in the manual love keeps on fucking over. Of course, we will listen to your problems. Carrie. Bradshaw. Yes. Of course we will. I think if you own two separate properties in Manhattan. You pass that suck up bitch forever. So I'm just questioning I'm questioning. Please welcome to the stage. Francis. Hello Hello Hello, and welcome. So exciting to be here in. San Francisco it's so proper to do. We have any feminist t shirts in? Yes. What does your say? Oh but it says in French. Hold on I'll just give you the mike once again. This is a story normally, it's just like. Women something. I got in trouble for wearing feminist t shirts to work. So I started wearing them in other languages. All right. Good. So, this is a rich to mix picky. Planning in French is that how they say it or you've just improvised. Dude splitting is that what they call it really stop the dude blaming. You know that is a reasonable request and somehow it's so much more defiant in. French. Isn't it? You can just see that woman with her cigarette. Split K.. Anybody else I can see I think this is a good one. Do you mind? Sorry I'm pointing breasts and You've given me consent for this Oh naive open jacket I thought it was bitch as against trump it's witches against trump. and WHO'S TRUMP We haven't heard. Although Rachel maddow where we are we getting closer getting closer. We edging towards the beginning of the end. Just gives a chair if you're optimistic about the end of trump. Gives us a chair if you're not. He will die at some point. At some Oh, I got Saddam and one visa that. Might violence he will retire at some point. I. Can't say anything that sounds like violence and I meant not sure causes. If your information I meant at some, we're all going to die. I didn't mean anything violent thought it but it certainly didn't say it. And the less we are actually into the United States of Gilead period which verging on. Where Edgy I know I know I know but I was coming back over from Canada because I was started this tour on the East Coast and then I went into Canada and then come back and one coming over the border into. Canada. I did have that feeling that handmaid's tale feeling of getting to Canadian immigration and I. Applaud. Give me a blanket seven. I was wearing this red coat. So it made me feel a bit like. I just toss stuff mahood. I. Think my greatest fear about Gilead coming true is that I wouldn't be a handmade aren't. But then I think I'm probably a young adult that have washed up handmade. My ovaries definitely dot woke up being there. I've tried the not producing anything. Anything. Anything. Anything like a baby and at the time. I was like Oh that's Obama. I was never really devastated about it but I was like, Oh but now I'm kind of pleased because climate change because I think I'm not pleased about climate. Change. Thrilled. A. It's possible. I might be dead by the time the worst of it comes but if I had a small child, I'd always be going. Sorry I'm just going to some point. Everyone dies at some point. The same point I've made about trump early. Ah. Good t shirts before we move on. Yes. What's your say? Oh. Hello. What's The bond on your own? A NASTY WOMEN? Oh multi-brand tote. You have comfort layers of feminism layers and layers lay as feminism. Oh. Okay. Great. Thank you very much. You wrote me a poem okay. Thank you. Does anyone hair before i. don't have a feminist job that. I, just sometimes like to do is to find out where. So what's yours? Teacher and who do you teach? and. Do you deliver any feminist messages to them? You talked about consent today with eight-year-olds well. Sorry Incentive for Josh and. Idea, it's not just. Okay Great. Okay. Super. What's your name? Savannah. Okay Great. What was yours? End Up making. Yes. Feminist. Author. Oh a feminist. That will. Emotional Labor up so that the things that women do that go into every day. A but bring people together. So all of that. When women say because we've been told over generations and the lifetime oh I don't know if I could produce a film and I always think well, who produces Christmas in your house it's not fucking man. You produces Hanukkah who produces eat. It's definitely not among hey, organizes for everybody to go to the cinema together and for you to see your old friends, always a woman or a game on I've never ever ever gone out to a group anything that's been. Organized. By Matt you know the only thing the only thing that men organize bachelor parties and look at how horrible they are. Straight men that's all they should be allowed to organize because they're the only people that go to those and I'm fine with it. I find you go off and do the vile thing for however many day but don't inflict it on anyone else. So your APP is an emotional Bob anybody else want's GonNa Feminist Job yes. Oh Wow Do that. In your private practice, you work with people who've survived human trafficking. Wow. What's your name? Tatyana. To you know each other all this is just you've stalking her. What's your name? Okay Okay. So your name is touchy and your name is one. Pro Thema okay, I've got some news. The today was meant to be the CEO of planned parenthood but just before this show, she had a family emergency couldn't come. So the reason I'm asking about feminist jobs is I'm looking for some guests. would. You be interested in coming on to talk about trafficking? Yes. Absolutely. But also if either of the other people we've talked to would like a little segment talk about you would like a segments till the up we can give you a little segment. Yeah. Do you WanNa talk about? Teaching. Show. Okay. So we've got a variety show. That will end with your phone. Okay. This is San. Francisco. Now, this has only happened once in the history of the domes we've been doing it for years. It's only happened once before that guest at the last minute had an emergency I had to leave and the episode was in Manchester in Britain and it drops this week weirdly at everybody loved it and it was in fact, it was a teacher and she's teaching them politics and she's sneaking in feminism, but also some of it's on the course so she taught. US what she teaches them. Of course sometimes, you think we'd actually don't really know the history of feminism in the way that we should. So she was really brilliant a. so when this happens day I was kind of excited Assads I am not to have the CO planned parenthood on I subside tighter because I thought I bet there's all these amazing women in the audience and that we not hearing from and their local San Francisco feminists and we do have a lovely a variety. Yes. Fan Medical. Because it's hard, it's really hard for medical trainees to know how to do public into the awkward learning. Yeah I don't want them doing. Their. Very First Pelvic exam on me if I'm perfectly honest. I absolutely don't. If you're out there in a medical student I know you have to learn somehow not me and I know that selfish wrong. But now there's a virtual reality version of my pelvis. You can have a good old roussel around in. Sought it. Okay. Incredible. For the wonderful tips Davidson. This is great. Now you see my sparkly shoes. Thank here. Can I admit to having a couple of drinks before the show as well? As in some map because I want to talk a little bit about wind bothering. As, I feel like you might be a crowd who's up for it. That's what I call. Anyone. Who thinks it's okay to interfere with the women's reproductive rights we bothering us. I'm so sorry that your country is currently being run by men that thing Roe versus Wade was a tennis match. That is an excellent joke. Actually, it does require knowledge of seven East tennis in US abortion legislation. Crossover in that van, diagram is never as high our type. There's a sign saying abortion is right? Yes. Sir Edward. Yes. Yes. So, I'm policing women's bodies has sort of become a real political goal hasn't it? Like it's happened in the UK we've? Just in the run up to the leadership election in the conservative part you had Boris Johnson and Jacob Rees Morgan Jacob. Rees. Mark Apropos of nothing because no one asked him. What is thoughts on reproductive rights were said if it was up to me at lower the abortion terms to twelve weeks and I thought that's interesting is if it was up to me at, extend them to roll Jacob Rees mortgages. It's difference of opinion isn't it? And we soft bad enough aghast when politicians and people making the legislations controlling women. But sometimes, it goes beyond that and tips corporations and that's what I think is really damaging. Now, some of you may have seen this story in the UK but last year boots pharmacy chain like your Walgreens Dwayne reads they got in trouble for refusing to lower the price of the morning after pill in case it encouraged women. That was in their official statement. is if that's how it works ladies. If you hear that and go all. To know why haven't had for ages Really good pregnancy scares. Seeing as it's so cheaper might as well. Plus get Louis points. Make It rain. Think it right. So I wanNA share with you this story. From my current show which I've been touring around it begins in starbucks because that's where every good story begins. I was stood at the end of the counter. Next to me was a heavily pregnant woman. I'm to say about six seven months I don't know not Dr. The BARISTA comes over to give us our drinks and. He hands me my coffee then registers that the woman next to me is pregnant and goes Oh. Do you want me to make you a DECAF? Now, I don't have a problem with this first question. She says it's fine. I'll take the coffee of ordered and then he leans into says. I didn't think you're allowed caffeine. At which point she said I know what the recommended daily intake is have one caramel Chiasso a die. It's fine. Then he leans in a bit further and says, no I don't think you should have caffeine because bad for the baby. I which point I'm watching this nearly spontaneously combusting. Now? I. Don't know how old the audience is added if you remember spontaneous human combustion. It was big in the as You'd see pitches of it. It was always women always. Now. How do I know? They were older women because you would see a walking frame you would see a bit of a slipper in an ankle may be blown off. Some knitting needles like just a child something on the floor. I have a theory as to why it was always old women spontaneously combusting I think women who just go to a certain point in their life and could no longer tolerate sexist bullshit. Is What is because it starts when you're young doesn't it normally? When you come into yourself as a woman Hobo phrase, there's no correct way to say it budding. She's blossoming, but you know what? I mean that sort of age it starts then you're walking down the street and someone goes cheer up and your like can I am Cherry? Cheer up I've started saying actually someone just died. When they go oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah I know. That's the point in normally starts right you know you're in your teens that's when it starts the sexism and at that point, it's kind of it becomes constant and it's an irritation. It's like it's like Candida is just It's constantly irritating you and then you get to your twenties and you're Sir as a matter irritation turns to like sort of Leighton anger. You like a volcano that's laying dormant and it's just sort of their under the surface and then you get passed over for promotion and you get ignored at work and then you get into your four as and it just gets a bit warmer. I thought he it starts bubbling up it becomes a hot bubbling rate. I, think that's the menopause was happening. And then one day someone says in the kitchen and make me a sandwich and. Mao Barbara has exploded. So I am halfway to self-motivation. She's gone off to tell her friends what's happened and presumably far extinguisher for me. and. He leans into this right he continues to justify it to me for the next five minutes like well, the thing is she shouldn't have caffeine because it's bad for the baby and I say. Doing Up. going. Rhino. Training, starbucks. I don't know when that began, but the NHL in the UK is overstretched show is probably a good saying. Part the healthcare this is. I just want what's best for the customer shot. The smoking pair of glittered sanders on the floor. So I get into my car right and I tweet this story of course, I do because I'm a comedian talk about funny stuff that happens in my life that's my job right I forget about it I don't look at twitter for a couple of hours when I come back, the story has blown up to an insane degree. It's vital that talking about it on the news in Australia. The thing that happened in starbucks and My twitter's gone crazy and there were three very distinct responses which I want to unpack few because I do think it gives us. A window into how the world sees women. The first response was women saying Oh. My God, this is happened to me. I was SIP of champagne at my baby shower. I was refused a half a Guinness I was refused to coffee one woman came along and said I went into a daily and they refused me Salami. As pre ironic. Maybe past that point. That point if the story I enjoyed I enjoy connecting with those other women about shared experiences. And their bodies being policed we talking about it going God. If we didn't laugh at this, require that story going very well, I enjoyed the second response was mainly guys saying didn't happen. And tagging an account called the didn't happen of the year awards. Now this is an account seemingly exists to gaslight women's experiences was a woman tells a story she's instantly disbelieved. It makes you wonder why certain things go on report So I'm being tagged into didn't happen if the year. Didn't happen didn't happen men tweet you meet didn't happen. This has never happened to me therefore is never happened to anybody ever. I've never given a woman in Orgasm. Therefore women don't have orgasms. Genuine conversation in the sixties is the female orgasm myth. No wonder women were spontaneously combusting. And then one man came allies that. Fund of stolen this story of Reddit. and. That is the voice of every man I ever disagree with. And I said, well, this thing that just happens me we will live explain to me how come there's a story on their this almost. The same as this. I, said, denies almost men can't help telling women what to do with their bodies. So much luck is a common thing. And another was the third response which. Was Men and women tweeting me to tell me the I. was the problem here. This man working in starbucks was just too concerned citizen just trying to do his job and I was the Kinda bitch that wanted to get him fired why you being such a bitchy bitch he's just doing his job. Well firstly, that's no is job is Joel. If works in starbucks is. Surf that Piss weak coffee they offer. Spell someone's name. We're GONNA COP. Go home. Should job right if you have an overwhelming interest in the female reproductive system, save it fierce beds. August job in politics. So also an option fear. Thing I just want some perspective like this woman was asking for Caramel Macchiato no apology in in some knitting needles. And even if she was, that's her parochial if by. And also is important to say this was men and women tweet Mrs. asked me now women can be agents patriarchy. All on. Lydia's us to call them. So women between and then I was being told made up because I'm a feminist I was. Yeah exactly. Thank you. I was making out for attention because I'm a feminist and I'm ugly and I can't catch a dick. Is If I'm out hunting for one with a massive nets. I've been going world. I have these spots Oh no you Maitha your feminist, she just doing it to get attention. I had one of these spats with a woman named candice. Arendt's now see that no he discerns is she's sort of all right journalist chatree started off as a left wing journal and then she became more and more radical left until eventually she tipped all the way back background into. Forming a perfect circle or an also if you prefer. And I do prefer. She tweeted that feminism was a cancer on the cause of all the problems in the world and I quoted the tweet just a little joke. Did you know candace RN's Anagram of internalized misogyny? Just a joke. You wouldn't believe the amount of your fellow Americans the tweet me to tell me I didn't understand what an Anagram was. Done appear to no joke. Is this going to be a real problem? Making it up your feminist, your bitch anyway at the end I. Just got so tired of all the trolling and. The. Don't don't apologize you polarizing for fellow Americans look at. That's a very British thing to do But. No, you listen. You know sometimes it's overwhelming with the story that I enjoyed connected with the women but I decided the best way to beat the trolls as I came up with a little plan for this. The best way to beat the trolls is to is to become one. So I decided that I was going to create this scenario where I was the concerned citizen just doing the right thing and a man was the person having himself police or something he was doing police I was just going to flip the script on that. So so I compose little tweet out and said. Hey guys just at the airport I've seen a man wearing a very expensive watches flashing it about all over the place. So I just went over and said, look I'm not being funny. If that gets stolen. It's your fault. And I sat back and wait for the praise to role in. It didn't happen. The first we are got was well, if a man has an expensive watch, what's he supposed to do? In the site. What's the point of having a watch I said, but you'll probably bearing in mind that this guy was drunk. So it's almost like he was asking to have his watch stolen. And can I be honest with you a second? I don't even think he's that nice looking to watch. Like? Personally, I wouldn't steal it. It's not the kind of watched I'm into and I want you to know that and thinking concerned citizen and a good person because I said. It's not even guys I watch. Skies loads of watches can even trust. Oh no watch has been stolen. Shit I was okay. They've apprehended the Guy Turns out he has an amazing swimming career so. Probably bear that in mind when it anyway. So don't go to starbucks. I just realized I ended on like quiet. Side Metaphor. Feel if anyone's going to appreciate you guys, right. tiffany saves everybody. Highly. Guilty feminist to let you know that we are performing live at the London podcast festival with distant seating all of the tickets to come and see us in person have sold out bought. You can get tickets for the live recording via a live video stream, all the excitement of being there in person but from the comfort of your own laptop all. Mistakes things we regret saying awkward pauses and technical hitches will be laid bare for you to see my for the episode we Jessica Foster Q I. We haven't been together for ages and our guest will be the amazing Katie you're and that's on Saturday. The twenty sixth of September seven pm she will both be guest and also musical guests. It's very exciting. And we've also just announced that we'll be recording an episode of Adversity Paste Panel Show Global Village on the same day at noon, you can buy tickets outcome, be in the hive mind or once again, watch the live stream from home to get tickets for both events. Go to King's place DOT CO DOT UK see the links on our website. Also, there are some shows I've curated including Sarah Pasco's sex power money and Samantha, Baynes, the divorce club as well as Isy Suttie love stories, check all of those out at the London podcast festival see if. This tickets for you to come live or online a huge thank you to all of our Patriot supporters. You've helped us keep making the show through the lockdown I really do me not. We've got lots of goodies for Patriot supporters from money off Merch to exclusive sticks to extraordinary content livelier hangouts with me via zoom please patch dot com slash guilty feminist check out the different tiers. You can change your level of support at anytime. So you're not tied in and we can't thank you enough helping to support show. We really couldn't have kept going without cheer. And if you've got a company that you think would be a good match for us. We are now accepting sponsors we've never done this before, but during lockdown with talk canceled and only a handful of socially distance live shows, we need to do something to keep being able to produce the podcast improperly pay the people who could be to it get in touch with US guilty feminist at gmail.com, and we'll let you know what you can expect from sponsoring episode placing an advertisement. You can also get a wonderful range of guilty feminist, much our website. You can buy my book the guilty feminist. And you can take one of our new be well classes delivered over zoom the much in the book will directly help me out and the guilty feminist out but anyone who contributes for the be well, classes are money's going directly to the teachers and the organized up please join in absolutely lovely first class, and if you didn't get a chance to listen to the episode about wellness and what's privacy and how we can shift the way wellness is perceived a really really recommended and please please come to one of the classes you just going love it and now back to the POCO zed. Our guest today, a San Francisco locals we've found them in this very audience. They both work with victims of trafficking to fight trafficking. Thima is here in her rollers private citizen. And feminists to the World Tatsiana is here in her role as a private practitioner and also she is on the Board of Justice at last put your hands together for. I'm. Pretend. Just introduce yourself to the cost. Of Feminist bought, we love to hear it. Okay. So my name is brought Thema I'm a feminist, but I wish I had dressed up today You look lovely and you're wearing a button that says sugar and spice and reproductive rights yeah. That's my friend been doing. The audience. Hey. Gave me she gave me this button because we're getting ready for the women's March. Tomorrow yes. Oh Yeah. San Francisco ever you are. So I'll be at San. Jose. If you're in San Jose come see me at ten thirty at the City Hall we're GonNa. Walk. We're going to smash Patriarchy and have a great time. Right I am Tatyana Foltz I am a licensed clinical social worker and I work predominantly with a trauma survivors including survivors of human. Trafficking? May I give a plug for justice that? I want to give a plug for justice at last where Tatyana is seen recently, a board member justice set last works with human trafficking survivors look them up and they have a fearless founder. Cul. Rozema Car Rosen. I. Go a long way back when we were both volunteering at a domestic violence agency as litigators representing survivors. Lawyer team yes I, I'm a lawyer by profession I now worked for the county of Santa Clara, which is we been doing and I drove forty miles tonight our my husband and I had tickets for the show I'm a big fan and we go with each other only the comedy shows. That's our thing to do some couples like to go to a nice restaurant Nice meal. We'd like to go watch comedy, and so he was gonNA come tonight he was very sick. I wasn't going to miss it. Left. He's a grown man. Oh with you I would do the same I'm just clarifying. That he's not by the side of the road or anything he's. And if he's by the side of the road l. find when I go. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Time of your life you're up on the stage here I've heard there's an APP for that. We'll come to that. It's. Really. I have I'm having to very little at all. Going Stacey would tonight. Thirty. Oh Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. I'll text her and let her know. Your friend of host. Will tell the works stuff so. She's amazing. She's fantabulous. Look her up and let her know. Thank you for not coming because I got a chance. -solutely. Absolutely. I didn't know she was going to be on been doing I've been the Bingo. Thank you for this. Clearly feminist God's with us. So. Tell us about the work that justice at last is doing, and is there any way for us to spread awareness will help? Get involved. What can we do to help you definitely justice at last works in the whole bay area and really the state of California in providing legal representation to survivors of human trafficking and someone doesn't always have to identify as survivor human trafficking, and just because someone is anti-trafficking doesn't mean they're anti-sex work. Yes. Just like someone can be anti domestic violence like pro relationships, right Does against the violent piece and they provide legal services for survivors of human trafficking, and almost any other crime in the world will especially in the US talk about I don't know all. I. Got to cover. On the bar in. One hundred countries. If you. Have a gun to your head. If you have your family threatened if you have your well being threatened if you are like to about a debt, you actually don't have. And you commit a crime let's say like bank robbery. You are not held as a criminal of that crime you're held as a survivor of that Crime Bryant with human trafficking if involves commercial sex acts and you have experienced forced fraud coercion if you've experienced violence. If you're over the age of eighteen in California you can still be charged for crimes related to being trafficked what y you'll be. Because Aki. But you you've been kidnapped and you what crime could you possibly committed? What could you go down for? For example, good question. So about eleven percent of survivors are kidnapped, most of them know their abusers, their traffickers just like we hear about. Child Abuse and Melih station right? Sometimes they get taken in for potentially murdering their trafficker just like. Apologize if I mispronounced your name. Crystal. Keyser K. I S. E. R.. she's currently and Wisconsin jail for murdering her trafficker when she was seventeen years old and Cynthia around who is advocating for her who was formerly imprisoned. AD and denied parole over and over again she was serving time for having murdered her trafficker. She was finally released and she's now advocating for this other says, we've got to see that self defense for God's sake the idea of being trafficked and then having things done to you unspeakable violence to you. Of course, if you can find that moment to try and get out, of course, anybody would is there anything else that people get? So say for example, if the person's traffic, the makes them do something. Can they be charged with Many times ever since we now have safe harbor laws, which someone is under the age of eighteen, they can't be charged with solicitation pandering these types of things. But you have your eighteenth birthday you can be charged even though they know you have a controller they know you have an abuser you can be charged with solicitation you can be charged with. Holding drugs for your trafficker, you can be charged even with driving a fellow survivor to a location, and this is very difficult or even helping someone that you're traffickers also trafficking helping them with their makeup can be seen as also saying. A charting. Yeah. Aw, and so many times they're forced to recruit. There are deadly in violent consequences to not bringing in other predominantly women but transgender individuals non binary individuals, boys, men are all being trafficked currently. And I'm sorry this is such a Downer after such a maze. No No. No. The one thing we can do on the show is changing gear and. We want to know about this. There's no point in. US coming along just going jugs shirks jokes, jokes, jokes don't we all what we need to know what you're doing, what you're working with what you're up against and how we can help us. This is so interesting and. Real. Women who need our help, right? Yeah absolutely. We're. We're all gripped. So you're working survivors. How do you get people out? How do you help people? That's a great question. So many times we refer them to the national human trafficking hotline, which is one, eight, eight, eight, three, seven, three, seven, eight, eight, and there's a lot of resources a lot of how to identify as a teacher how identify as a nurse. Dentist by a doctor on their website. So with you WANNA know how to identify. If let's say my massage therapist is being trafficked, my nail technician is being trafficked even the housekeeper being trafficked because there's labor trafficking in the states also, we sometimes refer them to that hotline. When I worked at safe houses, we would create safety plans. So okay you might not know what town you're in. Can you look around see if you know street signs see okay you're at a motel six how far away is the closest seven? Maybe where did you get your condoms? Is that relatively close and really walking them through how to keep them so safest possible utilizing harm-reduction reduction models and of course, honoring their choice. The limited choices that they do have in this violent situation because they are the experts in their own situation, they know when they're trafficker is going to be in the worst mood they know what the risks are in leaving, and we need to honor that that just because a police shows up at their hotel room doesn't mean that's the safest time to leave. So really honoring that experience and it takes practice to leave just like domestic violence intimate partner violence, it takes practice. So a lot of patients a lot of support. And a lot of moving pieces we can't assume that we know what our survivor needs moving pieces in the survivors lives. Especially, if it's a survivor of trafficking could range from trying to get out and not be recognized by the survivor and leave the geography of where they are or they just want a ticket to get to somewhere else or they have a minor child now they. Give birth to, and the child is a result of rape from the trafficker and they want the best for the child. We can't be in a position to decide what's good for them. We need to work with them to find out what do you need the most right now how can we help you and when organizations like justice at last who have a particular capacity and I learned? which is representing survivors in the legal capacity when they're working with survivors. Out of ten who they're working with if they're able to go to court for one. That a win because that's one less person who's traffic the other nine. Now know that there are organizations like just at last who'll keep their doors open and if they can't leave the situation at that point in time. Organizations like justice at last and Bay Area Legal Aid. If any of you know bear illegally my. I work with a lot. Of All Bay League. The most born we can do is to tell them please come back to us when you're ready we'll still be here. Our doors will still be open because the worst thing we do as a system is assume our doors are open. Now you walk in or that's it. We can't have that because Dan, we're failing as a community to say. We understand where you are. We're going to meet you where you are. That's the most important thing to do. So. How can we help? Do you need money? Do you need awareness-raising? You need volunteers? What is it that you need? So just big five people who you haven't talked to about your advocacy or passion that you have as a feminist, and if you talk to them this month talk to them about human trafficking awareness is how we're going to create a society that says enough is enough this is wrong and it's a supply and demand problem. Right also find ways to look for resources national or local justice that last locally, they always need your talent and. Of course, your purse strings. So please donate but also find ways in which you can give back I heard someone who talked about an APP. Those are very good ways to create other opportunities for survivors to try to get out and get help. They don't have to pick up the phone and call somebody or there's no record they could go online find out the resources you what if we were to find ways in which we can allow survivors to be able to access a safe way to exit when they're ready to exit when it's safe for them to. Amazing can you give us a couple of websites? So anyone we could follow justice. Last is amazing. They have an instagram they have newsletter even if everyone in this room just picked up their phones right now donated a dollar three dollars five dollars. So if you could just got, what's the website justice last justice at last dot org I believe. So just my phone so. I should we Chang. Phone. Just obstacle. So maybe to a little tweet saying just as last, do you have a twitter? I'm not sure I. Apologize to someone who's look up justice at last on twitter and find what twitter handle is you're looking at that. I also want to give a shout out to the South Bay coalition to end human trafficking. They were instrumental in the no traffic ahead campaign in two thousand seventeen when the superbowl came to Santa Clara. If you don't know this already, that's another opportunity for you to educate yourself and share information. Great. So Become the advocate, become the journalist, become the one trying to recruit other people. If that's the only feminist thing you do. This week is to donate one dollar and to get somebody else to donate a dollar, get someone else to follow the twitter feed or the INSTAGRAM and get those people engaged involved. You've done one feminist thing this week and you're gonNa feel so much better. Can everybody gave an incredible round of applause Patana. So. Our next guests have quite remarkable. I couldn't have planned better. Really remarkable. Actually, I don't know why we ever guests thank in any audience will have amazing people our next guests a local. San. Francisco real-life women who are in this audience. One of them. has created an APP that fights the emotional Labor that women have to do every day called Yala. Her name is Louise's dougherty. The other one works in virtual reality creating extraordinary things for the State Public Health Department Bob. Is here today in her capacity as a private citizen everyday feminist. It's roles plots. I'm Louis and I'm the CEO and founder of Yola. and My name's Roz plaster I am a doctor with UCSF as well as the California Public Health Department. and. I am working on a project that's called the virtual approach to gynecology project making training tools for healthcare trainees. Wonderful. Women Tech and we know San Francisco's quite tech entrenched place. So it's so lovely to hear about this feminist tech that you're doing when it has to go to one next show. So at some point tips going to go when tips go I'll do a bit of a goodbye tiff situation. So just let us know when in about two minutes two minutes or or do you want to go now it might be easier saying it's twenty minutes at a cab I don't know how long it takes. It can everybody just say a huge. Thank you pros for the tips Davidson. F. This has been the strangest show I'll tell you. Right so louise tell us about your. So, y'all is an APP to organize group activities with your friends seamlessly we're building the fastest way to get friends together and I wouldn't usually explain it like this. I feel like I'm among friends here so You will know the situation where you're trying to get a group together you WanNa go for dinner. Your cinema, maybe you're going to see sex in the city three with tips Stevenson. And it's an absolute nightmare you end up going back and forth and back and forth. The average plan takes nine APPs twenty two switches, seventy seven swipes, thirty minutes on the phone, ten text, and it fails forty percent of the time. It's just too hot. The thing is you know that because I've done thousands of hours of research. So I can say this women are the ones that end up doing the emotional work of getting groups together whether it's families, friendships or mixed groups at work like we're really good at it, and so we end up having to do so much more and I guess I just snapped. I quit my job. I started the UP. And, yes. So it's a platform to organize any kind of social activity you want do. Including volunteering or activism. Great. So if we want to get a group together for March yes absolutely you can use it right now where available in one hundred and sixty countries we've just been named after the day by apple and Google Wow. This Yada Y. O. W. Eliane and can we download you as usual? Yes you can just for the APP store from both APSOS and it's also available the website your friends don't actually have to have the APP to make all the plans for the but the key thing about it is it is collaborative and that's the difference between the way that men and women tend to plan women tends to make sure that everybody has represented their views and thoughts in what's You know what's the time with that kind of stuff whereas men tend to stay we're doing this so you and are out. But also fast. Wow That's so true. Isn't it? That generally a straight this man will go we're doing this. Do you want to do it or not? And there's not a lot of not not always Hashtag. Allman. But it is often the case that there won't be a lot of consultation and sometimes it's actually relaxing she just think, oh, someone's made the choice someone's decision but then you may not enjoy the evening and then there's other evenings where what people feel like I don't know almost to say so this is a tool for that. It's like WHATSAPP group and Doodoo Paul all in one. Oh. Okay, I love that. So could you please tell us rose about what you're doing? I'm doing something very different. Very important. But I don't think of myself as a tech person and this is actually kind of. Funny for me to be up here talking about technology because I am not on instagram. I'm not on twitter I'm sorry. I don't have a handle that you can follow, but this is something that I really truly care about as a physician and basically one of the main challenges when you are learning how to be a physician or be a nurse or a physician's assistant is that it's difficult to learn how to do pelvic exams well, and I don't know how many of you have ever tried to find a cervix. Yes. Did you find it? Oh Yes So services for those of you who haven't looked for them are hard to find. and. If you'll never tried before it's actually pretty hard to find a service, the first time and. For a lot of medical trainee is the way that they learn how to do a pelvic exam is actually kind of odd. You See a demonstration, a small group. So there's a teaching assistant who's actually a pelvic model, and then there's a small group of medical students who are together and they practice on this life pelvic model who then gives them instruction and it's a hot job pelvic model. You can earn a surrogate patient gynecologic. How much does that paid a couple hundred dollars an hour. People are interested people. it can it can. It pays well. It should be. Doing, a great service to medicine great service anyway. So you're training is very, very limited when you're a medical student and obviously if this is the first time ever doing this exam, it's something that you are doing in front of people there might be performance anxiety not like I'm having that right now and. They're also aren't a lot of opportunities. So even when you're rotating through a clinic, the only chance that you really have to practice this or see this is if the patient says that it's OK, which some people might not and you're looking at me. Obviously which was fine. Right. Yeah and you would have to have a patient who needs a gynecologic And that's in between so I wanted to create an opportunity for medical trainees to be able to practice this in part because I want them to notice cervix looks like and how to find it and also to feel more comfortable. Yeah. Everyone uncomfortable. Yeah everyone. So to feel more comfortable and to feel more confident in their skills so that when they do see an actual human being it is. An awkward for the medical student, and then it isn't awkward for the patient either, and this is sort of a very, very, very upstream approach to help clinicians in general feel more comfortable about the female anatomy and for primary care doctors to be able to feel more comfortable about performing things like pap smears and s tests, which is what I also do for work. Wow And so how close is this to being available to doctors? So we've made a proof of concept, and so that means we've filmed a three sixty video and at this stage actually this week, we started showing it to medical trainees to get feedback on it and so far. So good very reassuring no one's getting motion sickness, which was also a concern. That can happen in virtual realities. I'm learning a lot through this show. Yeah. And cervical ocean sickness. and. So we I would say a couple of months to a year. We'll have it up online and available to medical students in UCSF, and then hopefully we'll be able to expand from there. We don't have a website, it's called the virtual approached gynecology purely because I. liked that acronym because I'm a physician doctors need acronyms. The virtual approach. To Guide on Ecology. Everybody. Keep an eye on. Download your last start using at the same thing. Send Me. All. Send, pictures. Band together use this APP to smash the Patriarchy and lower your own emotional labor tall. Plots. Talking. We're getting kicked out of the theater. So we do not have time to do consent. I'm so sorry but can we get you next time? We're in town. is or we've already had twice the amount of normal guests. But Rebecca, we've just got time is over I said that right Maria. So. Completely. Different Name Person. Maria we've just got to your palm if you come fast. Okay All right. Please welcome to the stage with her poem. Maria restore. Oh. Thank you thank you so much. I'm not a poet, but at the secrets. Handyman's Bowl Li spins policeman's ball. There was a poet there and I was really inspired so i. Was told that we did in Edinburgh. Yeah. So so inspired by that performance poet, take it away but I feel like in my feminist friends, I'm like not feminist enough and I'm like, Oh, I'm so sorry and then with my other friends that are like rolling their eyes always way too feminist and so I felt like your podcast gave me like a place to be like a belonging. So that's what this is about about those two parts of my life. So I'm guilty because when I look in the mirror and I, see my fat rolling over my pants I push and prod until I squeeze in squish every role I can into some part of my clothing that makes my fat seem invisible even though those are the real parts of my body I don't go out and buy new clothes that fit this new fat on my body but instead I squeezed myself into clothing that no longer fits and instead I come up with responses in case somebody asks if I'm pregnant which I m not. Bevis because when I hear women say that they are not a feminist I can't accept that and instead I have a forty minute discussion on why they actually are feminist I won't stop until I convinced them. That's just kind of awkward for some strangers sitting next to me on the plane. I'm guilty because in conversations with friends about feminist icons I, not along in agreement, and then quickly excuse myself to the bathroom to research who the hell they're talking about and find some anecdote I can bring up. That shows I. also know who these feminists icons. I'm. Feminist. With my students, I will take any and all opportunities to show examples of everyday. And Grill. It into their teenage brains until they are permanently rolling their eyes I, am guilty because in a group of my co workers talking about the makeup, they can't leave the house without they turned to me and ask what makeup I have to have on before the house and I replied I like to take makeup detox is so few beautiful with overthrowing makeup. Feeling really good about my response I turn around where mirror reflects that my face, my neck and even my chest are absolutely covered in makeup. I'm a feminist because when men at my work show micro sexism I report it to my boss every time even though he has told me countless times that those are not things. HR can really do anything about and he's quite annoyed with me at this point. We can spend our life being guilty and we can spend our life being feminist. When you've done all you can and settle you will, what will your name tags say we can walk around without labels we can just let people be we must know where they stand and reather judge or join their band. So in moments of confusion and concern, don't worry because we are there to can't figure out where to fit what's our label when constantly contradicting what will my name tags stay? It will say, I'm a guilty FEMINAZI. You have been listening to the. Desk. Host Jeff Stevenson and out. Very special. Audience members Tassie on Tehema Ross Louise Maria. Recording engineer was sacked. Binding music is my mom. Juice was Thompson inskeep. To Shop X. Kevin Taylor Dara Tena Nathan Brew Fried Chicken and everyone of the finance data as what is. This thing more information about this another episode. Of. You know it. You said something about the feminist goddesses coming together. Today S January is human trafficking awareness month we could have made this up. We could not have seriously wow my husband and falling sick in doing. The feminists choruses they have provided by costing an illness on your husband. They do what? They do to. He'll be fine and if he want I'll go home and take care of him. Go I'm a feminist but. The thing is this is the month where we can talk huge. Thank you to all of our mazing patrons, sponsoring us at the smash, the Patriarchy level or above junk will choice Sarah Brown and Sarah Boom.

San Francisco starbucks California United States twitter Jon Hamm Tatyana Foltz Francisco tiff Stevenson Davidson Dan Louis Bob partner Santa Clara Canada Vancouver Hotel Ra
218. Size with Jayde Adams and Stephanie Yeboah

The Guilty Feminist

1:32:26 hr | 2 months ago

218. Size with Jayde Adams and Stephanie Yeboah

"I am a feminist but last night I played a new game I'd never played for called Word Slim. And the idea was you'd get a cont. That would have a clue on like hot air balloon and in under a minute you have to clue your partner. You can only use words on cards in your deck. So if it was hot air balloon, for example, you could do what I did and use the word transport old fashioned. Sky. and. They're sort of obviously shouting things out and trying to guess, and if you're playing with Thomas Alinsky, he won't know what that means. All you can do what the opposing team did and just use the word up. And with that one word, they would know that the answer was hot air ballooning. Even, though that team was not married. And hadn't spent every waking hour of lockdown together. So should be more a little bit more telepathic but what are you gonNa do I can't think what other things old-fashioned transport in the sky but anyway, it doesn't matter. Lots of rounds forced us into rather binary way of describing things like, for example, when Thomson Linski queued janitor as man job inside building and I said, afterwards could be a woman Jonathan could be woman but this kept happening in a sort of kept talking to everybody and I wanted everyone to feel comfortable and eventually I said. Ask speed I'd had two vodkas accidentally accidentally said look we're. We don't have time for feminists. Though was that time of went very fast and sometimes you do sink of among agenda. So I do think I am not open to discussing the words I use to describe gala. But one of those hot and I won that round so. I'm a feminist, but I make jokes about my weight sometimes on TV and other women don't like it and they send me lots of DM's about this constantly. But I like to joke about my weight because I find it. Funny. For example, one of the jokes they didn't like was something I said about an elevator I got into an elevator in debonair and it said this lift is overcapacity and I was the only one in it. which made half of the audience laugh. But the other half were worried about my sanity when I did that and just to let you know I just think it's very funny when I don't fit and stuff and I know that's not very feminist of me. But it's funny. I'm a feminist Bart recently among told me that he had a best friend they just so intellectually paired you know they have such brilliant deep conversations and they also have this great are and. They nearly kissed one spot. He pulled back from it because he said, don't lose the friendship but then she said look I really have feelings for you and I really fancy you and you obviously fancy me and this could be perfect and he went I thought. No, I think I'd rather have the friendship. And I just felt for her so much that I said, what happened to men. There was a time when men would be like, yes please sex what has happened to that I mean obviously, that's not what I said to him. That's not right but I, hear the story so much now that Frisco, he's perfect for me I'm perfect for him. He's just like I can take a leave it and I was like, but surely you should try it because in the words of Adel, you could have had it all and With the REGGAE beat and I. Felt. Like if this was a woman, say my best friend is in love with me and I'm not love with him and so I I absolutely boundaries distance because it was a man I was just like I feel sad for her and I think this is going to end in some kinds of wrong combine to the airport. I do feel a bit bad about it but no spot is I should. I'm a feminist, but my boyfriend gets a little of DMZ from women who pretend to be my fans telling in a great I am. And instead of saying things to them, I followed them. and become their best friend. Because they felt anything I just believe. That any person who messages someone after midnight. Oh I mean even slightly before that. I mean. That's all ten pm. Ten there was. A former cups of it's ten. Oh. One is that I feel that's on the ballot. Top Ten you can do as well, but reaching eleven to twelve and onwards. then. And he never easel was just being friendly. An idiot. And I only know this because I too was in my twenties and I'm because of him. He should feel very flattered since I've been with him and in the relationship I've become a better feminist because terrible behavior me telling them what to do. I've become a much stronger women since I've been with him but I can see stuff. I can see things before he sees them and I will go and have a further look on their profile to just see if they're doing any of those you know like or like a sub tweet while you're trying to talk to someone without adding them and something and. There was one recently that was looking to buy their ideal man and they described very much my boyfriend. But I mentioned this too and he was like, no, they're just being front. But I just felt like it was off my gt to then become friends with them. So they didn't make a terrible mistake and that's coming after someone I'm with. Fair enough. I am a feminist bont. Today I sort of video on twitter that was a Mexican gender reveal party, and I didn't realize a gender reveal party. The parents don't know the gender of the Child. I mean nobody really knows the gender of the Child until the child tells the parents gender that job but they don't know the assigned gender I thought the parents and they were not saying to everyone else with pink balloons or something no. You say to to either one no I'm going to find out at my party. They give you a super paper and they say, don't look at it take it to the baker. Then tell the baker if that says boy blue cake and if that says This is true or the helium balloon guy knows before you it's like you're telling me. Doctors who have studied for ten years on the Faint Clinton Cards. Yes Bart's. I saw Mexican today and they were to run up people in you know, have you ever seen those seem restless soups? One was a giant. Blue Baby with a bold baby with blue approach mumps and the other one was pink with a hair. Apparently, go by. Pink Blue Pink baby and then these two babies had a fight what everyone around it was like five five. And I was like anybody right now in the world who was doing anything to reduce. The idea of the binary as far as I'm concerned during the world of massive favor because this is not okay this is absolutely this is. What are we doing with four? A baby is born we staging a fight with grownups just as babies and one beats the other one to deaf but. was quite pleased. The goal one. For the north. The. Cost which. Noble goals. His. Twenty first century. Feminists. Hypocrisy Securities John Mine. Them. Really Nice to say that and have an audience because normally I'm on a zoom coal and it's just four people staring at me going. They try. But you know this pets in the frame. On. Jay Adams and we're talking about size. The reason I have a different chair isn't because I've stolen the guest chair is because I looked at that and I've been burned before. Do you have chair requirements. Did you know matlock arms weren't really my friend? I'm not I'm loving. I'm loving a woman coming on the show and having a writer saying I didn't feel like, I I was asked if I had a writer chubbiness w bringing up late or Tom. I had I looked the chairs and I made a decision to save face and then brought up which is a passive comedian thing to do. But. Yeah. I've been stuck in chairs before. And it's always funny. You can laugh I know there's been people in the. Media that told you. You can't laugh at fat woman but sometimes we do stuff. That's funny. Against chairs essence comedy especially someone is not as as well. As. Bodacious as I am getting stuck in a chair. That's funny. Dacia Goodwood oh. Yeah. I spent the afternoon listening to. No diggity. which isn't as feminist as it sounds. On it's because yesterday I was working with some burying actors teaching them to improvise, and I was interviewing one of them I pay her like a little hat and I asked her wind will the other garden gnomes hate you and. She said that she was writing a book called the dignity of the known. This obviously then became the name of the WHATSAPP group the dignity of the moment cetera. You know how these things go I asked her what was her the mantra inside the front cover of her book and it was if you don't know me by now. Never going to know me at all and so then of course on. WHATSAPP group. People. Start out with puns. Until one very funny actress just made it. It'll mean of instead of no diggity gnome dignity. I mean about exactly no one could that everyone else retired from the game Understandably and I thought I haven't heard that song for years and so I started to play it and it is I have to admit catchy an addictive. Achieve recently, listened to it and what does no diggity mean it means seriously. So seriously fancy you. No diggity. So like no medicine no, no lying. No one really knows what dig eighteens know extensively researched it. you do you just go? I'm not sure the answer to that question I. Feel someone's GonNa ask me or just need to know now what's the origin of dignity? But I don't think it's known the origin but Dr Drey Song? Is that right? I don't know why you're looking at me. Dr Trays definitely on it I think it's like a band Dr Dre. If anyone knows more than me about hip hop or anything to do with music, please shut out I love the confidence that asked to white women decided to talk about this. Anyway I mean. This and Adele. Oh. Babes on. Someone's getting sacked. That's all I can say about that. It's not me. It's no diggity is hold on. I'm just looking at fear because I don't. WanNa. Give you misinformation. You. Know Dignity and you don't know what it is do diggity is seriously. Yeah. It's But he keeps saying I think he wants to bag it and I looked into that and it means you want to put a condom on it which safety first safety first I wanna bag it. No diggity. Apparently I don't know I. Don't know what he's going to put a condom on maybe maybe that's what it means feminists. Song. Okay. Maybe, not yet. No diggity. No I should bring about as good expression. It was very big time. Let's use it all night. Probably don't let us know known dignity. I. Think is probably an acceptable version that. You and I can use. So before we go on I'm going to say about guest yesterday she's an incredible writer and she's written a book called Fateh Ali ever after a black fat girls guide to Living Life unapologetically name is Stephanie Abobo. was good to talk about sites and taking up space because there is a difference between feeling fat and being fat. Feeling that is a really valid feeling especially, if you've spent your whole life and family members and stuff saith Matt stuff that you. I had an uncle. He doesn't listen to this podcast I. Don't think. And he came up to me my sister's wedding. She had eight bridesmaids course she did Princess Chad, eight bridesmaids, and every single bridesmaid had a boyfriend and I didn't have one and three of the bridesmaid's were under ten years old. Wow, I all the hair and makeup for. The bride and the bridesmaid either, very, very busy morning. I was just looking in a mirror putting smile on own and an uncle comes up to me puts his hands around my waist and says, if you lost some weight, you could get yourself a boyfriend and I said, well, if you weren't such a may be on Margaret might fuck you some more. I'm a huge adrenaline explosion and had to go off because I couldn't believe I got something I don't normally. When I when angry I don't normally get there. But because I've been so good at doing the hair and makeup I was full of confidence because everyone was like jade's really smashes welden. Yes, I have I'm single. I had him on a wedding once and he would always have digs about my weight the whole time and he wasn't like related to me or he was like the father of someone I. Knew I used to really get to me that every single chance he got he would say something and there's one night I was all dressed up as feeling fabulous and I think emceed the event because I was the comedian front, you know when you're the comedian frontier. The event to make bearable. Goto had asked me to how'd they just end up piping up any event divide? It wasn't a spontaneous emceeing I'm sure I've done that I. Know I was asked and so I said, well, I'm not gonNA be able to drink properly done. You know my proper job and everything but I smashed it never wanted loved it and then I think that's right. There was a breakfast the next morning. So I was the star of the breakfast as you can imagine and he just came I can't even quite remember what he said now but it was something about. Me Being. Two sizes too big or something like that. It was something like that. And I just looked at him and I said you really want me. Because, I just thought I. Just that's gotTa be what it is. So I'm just because I was feeling a bit story and I wasn't feeling often that kind of thing will make you just feel like we pig and like why do you need to say that I'm what are you saying that what's that about and then you feel like what's wrong with my size? Anyway all of very complicated but I just had that feeling of going I bet this is about you wanting to me. And and it always is. I reckon nine, thousand, nine, hundred at the time it has to be specially if you're confident as well is. Like. Well I watched the full with Gillian Anderson I'm sorry I've just got there I'm sorry if you've already been there but the thing about her, what makes her such a magnet is the fact that she does not give a shit and they cannot stand it and they want her and it's the same if you are. Slightly different about you Andrew Confident. If someone wants to bring you dine, they will find the thing that they think that you're insecure about the find that thing that makes you feel victim. On. Childhood. Issues is raised on the beach and stuff like that, and this is not me doing very sad story about. You race each. Entirely H. Where we lived it was councils owning houses allowed it was a simple beach situation. On parrella. One of those beach umbrellas if you were a family of four but. Other than that you. Could do you have a kayak coming? They weren't wasn't? It wasn't Dr Cohn Ian but. No I did I grew up in the beach and it was all very well. But I must say at this point I don't identifies factors not I'm not being one of those instagram women who go look at me when I go a bit like that you can you my stomach isn't a splatters when I'm kind of lying down socket in I'm not doing now I was probably like a size sixteen to eighteen and I'm a probably a fourteen. Now I mean, you feelings you feelings this is also not. His is his feelings are valid that thing I said about feeling fat and being fat I will get to the being out section in South Dakota and this is. because. They are feelings because we've been through people saying absolutely. Yeah absolutely, and as a kid I got two teenage site age put him. So they bumpy are turned into a teenager and I developed and where I was the currency was to be as as possible teats possible very short very narrow. That sounded like the patriarchy. The roaring, laughing the patriarch. was that the man who used to talk me at the family events? Uncle Philip. So I've caught had issues about and I've been lots of different sizes just to sort of cover, but I don't identifies Fan. What is going what emerged? It might be a bird. This place has had a lot of things happen in it. This is going to turn into the first haunted guilty feminist while it is because it use. Well, this has been many things. One of the things this has been an emmy five interrogation building and I just love it when they. Turn buildings into liberal centers for creative workshops. I just think. I was. I want stayed in a hotel some put me in. That was a sort of converted prison. It just felt really wrong intellect that sort of gentrification there's just sort of. This prison and will turn into some flats. But it was like really like one of those boutique sort of forced. So hotels, but it was like Boutique. Really, posh soaps and roll top baths and stuff like that and I was just like this I can feel the pain and the walls with as a woman I just ran on the wall as a woman called. Charlotte. I. Believe. One of the stories with to Renaissance Wjm they look you're in a room and she haunts. Great gas to for the guilty. Feminist. Having if anyone knows the patriarch woman who's literally been locked in Gothic building and burned alive just. Basically Shadow candidate now, one of them old oil burner ones and there was like apparently, Chiffon on the curtains not Chiffon. poppers Israel. Now, this is relevant to on the wall on the way anyone else read this on the wall. We can confirm. Yeah. Charlotte her name was Charlotte. They say she holds the whole and she haunts the holes you might see area. Okay. If we hear any loud laughing, we know it's our friend. Charlotte she's probably wanting to be involved because she has lost. By the Patriarch. The? Patriarch? Sometime. Ago. Question. Why are there never goes in Morrison's Walk Generally building old asylum's everywhere. You've been someone died. There is just the facts of life. Where you're sat right now someone's probably died there. It's a really good point tax today. Well, you'll saying if someone has a half second Morrison's why are they haunt Morrison's? It's always spooky Victorian. Girls. And buildings the hung around for ages. Why isn't clive eighty, six year old clive we love Morrison's but eat at Wayne too many. killed over why doesn't he morrison's? Well. Maybe. He Deng Bond if you've been trapped in a building or something, the way you haunt is just more ostentatious because you're trying to remind everybody instead of be released to the other side or something whereas if you saw an old man's shopping and Morrison's see me was a ghost but maybe he is. Maybe. He's just pushing pushing the trolley round happily. We're no longer touch each other. So we have to wait. If I were go said where a mosque now you'd fit wrong to you. I'm saying we've solved the mystery. We should do true crime because we've sold the mystery feminist true I think it's I think it might be it might be your tablet partner curies yet it's rather double apart she's already doing that you alleged. True crime podcast with me. What sorry. Now, we just came up with this. There were lower witnesses. Tell you just wanted to say about the feeling fatten. Thing. So feeling as we've explained as an experience that we've been through and it doesn't matter. It doesn't actually you know it's a feeling inside of us, and sometimes we can get rid of it or we can just like try and. Overcome it or whatever but being fat when you live in a world that has nothing built for you where on airplane seat is such an ordeal because. People that work at Easyjet don't know how to talk to you correctly, and sometimes you just want them to leave you alone and they come over to you and your I don't want any fossil by this a tool and they're like, yeah but you need to put the rest on. You know it's GonNa come straight back out when you go over there or. You know the experience of being over the size of things that are like, for example, this chair I would you know I'm a comedian so can handle it but like just having someone like get up off of Charon it's still stuck. Giraffes can be you know what I did once. This few years ago and I invited everyone into the living room oversight. We're GONNA do a song. Piano we're GONNA have a big song and I was like come on everyone I made them leave with their little social groups at the house part in took them into the living room and it was like, Oh, come on guys. Let's be like the Victorians. Holes no let's be like the victorians and like sing for each other and I made such a big deal about it them into the room I got down on the piano and turned around everyone and the chair just went. Underneath it. was on the floor and. On that point, everyone had just left the room and it was utterly mortifying. But that's the experience. Why sort of Jacobite people are sort of you know like it's great. Lots of people are talking about body positivity in places that don't normally speak about it are married. He comment that wouldn't it be fantastic to actually hear from people who experienced that up the? Wouldn't it just be fantastic if women just weren't talking about fucking wait wouldn't it just be a? No, we've just. One of these, all of these, these conversations that we're having a really important Stephanie's book is Super Important, but will I hope in the future and I don't know if it's just wishful thinking is that men in the Patriarchy will stop distracting us with conversations about our bodies because that's what they're doing because we're very fucking clever and they distract us with this image shit none of it fucking matters what they're distracting us from is our knowledge that we could actually run things much better than everyone else and It makes stupid. It makes us thick to be thinking about that. I love fashion and stuff like that image wise about fashion. But like the obsession over the individual bits of a of a body like I had my friend over at my house a couple of weeks ago and she spent the entire time just pinch and bits of her body are if I got rid of this and got rid of this Oh. My God. Like something else. Let's talk about this talk about like what a change you can actually make. A distraction technique I'm sure of it. Lone. Hello. Welcome. I've forgotten how to use a microphone 'cause I've been trucked in my own home, which has very few microphones and absolutely no other human beings except my husband Tom and the cats who've been upgraded. As. No one else upgraded their pets to full human being status. I'm counting Alexa. I find time being a lot less rude to Alexa now in in these times I used to, but you don't even use chatting and you say, Oh, it's Alex coming to the pub or something like that. You know when you say that now we don't go to pubs. But when we said those things you would, you'd mention something like Alex. does your Alexa just go oh I'm not sure what she wanted. Not You Alexa extra I think especially sensitive because when I played the Hamilton Soundtrack. She comments on every line. Alexander Hamilton I'm not sure I understood that by name as Alexsandr Hamilton what can I help you with nothing Alexa it's not. About Of that he's a very controversial figure. I'm not sure I understood that. Alexander Hamilton Ebb Pizza Express. In Camden at the moment. I don't understand anyway. So I have found I. AM nicer to her now because I used to be really rude nothing to do with your never talking to you Alexa it's never a never talking to you tom talks to her actually there was a little while I thought they were having an affair because. Nowadays because he talks to him although he talks to me the way he is a name. Like he never says to me, tempera. Cup of tea, but he always goes Alexa. The temperature I'm like you know if you can feel it why asking you just watch chat you just want the detention of a woman is just one time I swear to you. I came in and he was like having a full Chad and I was like what's going on and he and he was like I keeping. What what's going on and he went no. Alexa asked. If this is true if I wanted her to use my name. That's where it who else does she talking to and he went I said Yeah and then she said, well, you'll have to teach me and like basically you have to answer a bunch of questions apparently. So she's asking him all these personal questions and then every time he answers she says Oh. Thank you Tom I'm telling you there's something look I'm open to I'm fine with I'm absolutely fine I'm fine with it I'm fine with it. Oh I'm thought she was thought she'd just come in and also like. Alexis turned up at the GIG, she's going to be it. January jumped in what she's here. She's here. She's come out she's following us now she's out the house because I feel like she listens everywhere someone will have some kind of device on them either that or all of the series are planning together to send her a message she's just getting but anyway. This is not prepared material obviously. This is me more leaving the house a meeting people again and just saying all of the things that are going on in my brain which on my brain at the moment is slightly this Tom. Hi Tom. I forgot you. Thought. With Alexa. It's actually Alb- it's actually how wedding anniversary today. SPRITES that's right which refuses to acknowledge. What's the day we got Alexa? Alexa. He says he has no idea. He knows he news. They know they know I'm just not involved in that thing. Thank you so much for coming out to what is seconds. Live show post the most intense period of lockdown. I, mean it's funny this because we thought I think we thought well when we're back, we'll be back and it's not worked like that's tool. It's like you can have one GIG outside. And then nothing. Then, there's another gig outside it'll probably be too cold after this. The End. Feel I'm just getting to grips with being in front of audience again. So I'm very delighted and excited to be here. We have got something coming up with the podcast festival, which is going to be at kings place, but because it's indoors, you'll have to sit far away from people like you don't like them or like Amazon successful us I was widely used to the NBA festival every year it's going to really tricky me. It's going to be an author city Brady far apart. Wanted to come. It's gotta be horrible. It's GonNa be horrible but I will find a way to process the fact that you will be sitting far apart. Please come. So. Yeah. We're doing that, but I just don't know like we keep saying oh well, maybe we'll be allowed to do a Christmas show maybe weren't maybe it'll be freezing cold and winter in the virus will love that and want to come indoors with her destroy all potatoes. Which Panther teams with the only form of theatre, the current government understands exists. That's all talk about when they reference go we know it's going to really hit the heart with no patio because that's the that's what you do. All Year round isn't it? That's what you do all year round and just I just I don't know I don't know. I'm just imagining that's the only thing they come to. Maybe I know I sort of almost have nightmares about it just imagining being on stage like an actor's nightmare of Michael Grove the only person in the audience shouting the Koran avars of behind you and. I can I can only assume. So who knows where we'll be but doesn't matter where we will be where we are tonight, we can only live in the now, and now we are here the guilty feminist live with an audience I would touch you legally allowed, but I'm not. So I will just off my elbow and if you can offer yours at distance great, that's not a distance but that's Scott Scott. It's human contact. It's brought tears to my eyes and. I'm sorry I seem to elbowed Amana to feminist show, but you're very welcome and. You welcome to walk among us. No I believe I believe men can be feminists than not normally, but I believe they can be and. Then not awfully they're not fully but they can be can be. It's a bit like when I grabbed my pets to human beings I. I'm into the upgrade accountable feminist sometimes, if I know them well, you're sitting in the front row you hear you willing to learn. You're making direct contact with me. It's your own fault. What's your name? Giles. Well, thank you so much for coming Chelsea listen to feminist. Great. Great Super. Have you listened for long You got him into it. Did you feel needed to learn? What was on? He's better than you are. That's such a woman thing to say. Introduced. By boyfriends feminism. Already. Better than me. I don't even. Listen. Listen. We've been trained well by the patriarchy. Thank you for bringing Giles, introducing him, and thank you for coming. Hollow guilty feminists this is. Two weeks ago, we welcome three amazing yoga wellness teaches onto the podcast, and we've now launched a series of online workshops with them and shortly some others as well. The first workshop will be mindfulness and movement with Dr Stacey. C. C Graham. It's on Wednesday the sixteenth of September five pm to six PM. You've time and it will be delivered over zoom and we'll be adding more classes. Over the next few weeks, causes are offered on a sliding pay scale in an effort to make them more financially accessible while still ensuring teachers are paid appropriately for their time to book your place, go guilty feminist dot com slash be hyphen well, all look for the Lincoln, our show notes, and also we have just a few places left on the next series of big speeches workshops with. Jessica Regan this series of three interactive workshops will take place on Saturday mornings. Eleven am starting this Saturday, the twelfth of September. As record this, there were just three places left Sahara. Have you want to claim one? You can also buy my book the guilty feminist by our merch from our merch door and support some patchy on. Thanks so much for all of our supporters you've really kept. US going while we've been unable to record live shows in theaters will have lots more videos, exclusive audio clip zooming hang out some special events for you soon, and it would really help us out if you would rate review and subscribe to the podcast, maybe tell someone else about it send a blink about be so so helpful thank you so much and now back to the podcast. So I promise Stephanie Yibo I would read a little bit from her book. So you could get the context for it. This is called the three hundred pound dare. I can't wait to meet you Steph I've even bought you a gift as minimize the what's up conversation on my phone I was filled with dread about what the next evening would bring. It was a couple of weeks before Christmas I was going my first eight since the end of my last relationship two years ago to say I was extremely nervous a severe understatement I've been talking to Robert as he should. We called for the remainder of this story for a couple of weeks after matching each other on a dating up eventually moving onto whatsapp and all seem to be going well since. The demise of my last relationship I'd been a bit wary of the opposite sex and had gone into every new dating chat with a high degree of skepticism. However, Robert seemed different he was funny seemingly very intelligent, open, minded, ambitious, and more importantly accepted and seemed to prefer the fact that I was bigger side note it seems a bit silly to have to declare something as trivial as wait on an APP but you to how large percentage of plus size women are treated in the dating world. Some of US choose to denote about our wait to our profiles almost as some kind of disclaimer. It's even worse when you're weight into sex with something such as race or gender, I'll touch on this later back to the nonsense. Date night with Robert finally came around and I was practically bursting into flames with excitement would agree to meet in Vauxhall South West London. For a couple of drinks I ride at the venue early in tweeted a picture of myself, take my followers that I was out on a first date. As you do Robertson Brian to the date began we had a great time during the three or So hours we spent together. We laughed we exchanged hilarious date fell stories. We spoke about families, likes and dislikes just date stuff. You know he'd even bought me a little ornament my room as I told him, I was still doing it up which was sweet at the end of the night we made out and he said he wanted to see me again. Good so far. Am I right? If I talked loudly it's because it's in caps just became. That ornament bit would have been fucking red flag. Fuck is this. May. Strapping, kids the so many red flags coming you could make. A week later and hours of speaking on the phone and texting throughout the night. We decided that he'd come over to my frat and we'd watch a few shows while I cooked I. Know I know rookie mistake like I said still dating Newbie. Okay. Obviously. One thing led to another and we ended up making whippy. Hold on Stephanie is this in the United and fifty five. Young. Mom. Just dot some yet. I didn't realize that was a sexy music. Ace Ventura when nature calls. Okay, I think of it as the song that Ross sang to his monkey. It's true but they were always there was always something. A bit. Them. I'm not saying Ross was having an. Okay. So obviously, one thing led to another we ended up making Whoopi. Cut to a couple of months. Later when I received an email from a friend of his apparently Robert had shown my blog to his friends for approval a little before our first date. This Fran tells me that in the interest of full transparency and his own guilt he thought he should let me know that the reason I'd not heard from Robertson's second date was because he had been dead to pull a fat check and upon completing. At one a sum of money is friends and pooled a lovely three hundred quit. In that moment I felt sick wave of embarrassment and humiliation washed over me and I went into my bathroom and cried I've been terrified of meeting and talking to men for fear of judging my parents as this had happened countless times before as much as I know that I'm an awesome person with a lot to offer I'm also blindingly aware that the way I look is not what mainstream society considers to be beautiful, and that's something I always have to think about carry with. In the moments while reading the email, I could literally feel my confidence and self esteem draining away the self-esteem that I had fought. So hard to regain after my last breakout gone just like that. Suddenly I didn't feel human. I felt like someone's gross placing to pick up and leave whenever they wanted without. Any regards to my feelings or thoughts I felt absolutely worthless and undeserving of lovell desire. What should have been a lovely couple of dates a bid to improve my confidence and self esteem while tackling the shark infested waters dating had turned into a teaching moment for me and definitely made me feel a lot more wary about dating in general and more importantly trusting men. Sadly my story isn't an isolated incident. We've all heard of pranks such as the pig game which involves a group of men during each other to hook up with the least attractive woman in there is in order to gain count their tails as long as my arm from fellow plus size women who've been duped or tricked in this way, and after I shared what happened on twitter? I received a ton of emails from women who had been through exactly the same thing. Frankly, a discussion needs to be had about it dating as a plus size women. Woman you see is an excise rooted more in frustration anger and patients than romance. When you are not being ignored by perspective interest, you are either being subjected to humiliation and abuse or your fetish is to your weight either way the abject failure to consider the feelings of the. Woman in these situations is just another example of the ways in which we are not afforded the luxury of being treated as human beings. Lease. Welcome to the stage the incredible Stephanie of. A is there any satisfying ending to his story? There isn't. One. We could find him. Let's go round and find him now together all of us. Law Audience of guilty feminist has come and knock on the door I know a guy could. Could Royston lifts in Bristol? You can sort I. That would that is not the issue. Of the guilty federalist. We have no current associations with Royston I'm not ruling out hiring him on this occasion. It's an extreme situation. Honest Deborah he's been offering for about fifteen twenty years to have people sort the guys seventy-nine now he could. Leifer onto their fresh. Want to be just don't WANNA see him a seventeen year old can someone else. But this week I've seen more action than nine year I. The source story not used to I'm pro I. saw him walk some stairs once. Happening okay. All right. We will find a younger Royston. We we talked me I mean, frankly I mean that man can do. We don't need to spend any more time on him, but you asked me to read that passage when I talked about reading something out and I have to say when I read the book, it did stand out to me as a most remarkable thing. Can I say thank you for your candour it writing it it's important for everyone to hear about her, but I don't want to a cost in you sharing it. Yes definitely I. Think it was important for me to when I spoke about onto a Serb online a couple of years ago. There were comments from people saying you have just kept the L. and you should have like kept the story to yourself and you know why you embarrassing ourselves on twitter and stuff but the reason I spoke publicly about it because I just felt like like like like I said in the book that needs to be a conversation surrounding the way which some plus size women are cheated dating, and I'm very aware that there are laid plus women and very happy relation and loving relationships. But UH, guess speaking in general it can be extremely dehumanizing and some of the things that happened within that community arena is very, very traumatizing, but it's not spoken about because for the mice paw. Being seeing somebody big can sometimes be like the buffer joke. A lot of the time people see being bigger sometimes as like. Like especially when it's a smaller guy in a bigger girl sometimes people, it's quite funny aol like comedic and sometimes it's not the same. The other way round is quite normalized the other way round and. I think it's important to have these conversations about a subsection of people that are going through of pain and stuff. Yes. Absolutely is it's a phenomenal book and you talk about how race into sex and it actually says on the cover how does race play into it? So I think the way in which race comes into it kind of comes from slavery Kalina's lies ation, those kinds of issues where unfortunately lack bodies black female bodies especially have been hyper sexualize very much. So they've been objectified in the book I Talk About Lady called Sarah Baartman who was South African and she was brought to the UK because she had a really big bum and she had like a really long Labia and. That was just the characteristics of her tribe in South Africa and she was brought to the UK and put in a human zoo and she had lots of men plotting her and she would be made to perform because people thought she was feral and animalistic and weird, and upon her death I think at the age of maybe twenty four, she didn't even have any dignity in death she was put in a museum in France and her body and. Highlight was put on display and say, she didn't have the dignity in death that she did in life and her body. Her remains were only taken back to South Africa to be laid to rest in two thousand and three, and so there are these stereotypes I think a lot of people tend to put onto black women especially when you are darker skinned. So it's very aggressive sassy dominant those kind of like the three words are us quite often strong. Hyper confident or strong willed strong-willed. Yeah. And so when it comes to the dating scene, you do often get the fetish. Element of men thinking that Oh. This person is a fat and black so she must be dominatrix or she must be. Very strong and can like Whitney about that kind of stuff. You're let me back to the nineteen fifties and talk missionary as. I. Yeah there was. Yes. Spectrum of sexuality in any cross section of human beings. Yeah. It's an imposition or projection exactly and I think. Yes this whole kind of hyper sexualization of bigger bodies is something that has been carried around for for such a long time and when you talk about like. And all of these things it can be quite dehumanizing. I remember doing little Google search a few years ago and I put in white plus size women white fat women something like that. We've done the same Google search yet and loads of images of body positivity, how to love yourself how very lovely kind of wholesome content about self love and I did the same for black women and it was all porn all. We were reduced to nothing about a category on porn hub, and so it really spoke to me the ways in which people see bodies and color and the things that they attribute to two bodies. Today there was a tweet from glamour and you said, I, love you Glam. Bart January could work out in the two pictures which was meant to be one of these. Things where people on instagram go if I sort of hold my stomach in and look at the angle look I look. Like an instagram model. But if I sit down on Slouch, you'll be able to see that I have a tummy. Basically, a couldn't walk out which photo was which it just both looked like a woman in a day it just I just I was genuinely going in which one you meant to look like, Oh, you'll so relatable. Now, I've seen you know I've seen you here. I, feel so much better about myself and I'm like, why should either of these pictures have anything to do with me? Not this pictures anything to do with me what was your comment about? I don't think it's that groundbreaking all like huge for people that live in privileged bodies to kind of be like, Oh, I'm slim now I just have a little bit of fat I think. I I'm sorry I think it's show I. Think especially when it comes to issues of body positivity. That is such a nuanced issue because his. I talk about in the book that body positivity was a movement that was specifically created by black women. So it was black fat women that started the movement and as it gained prominence in the US in the UK, we started to see a bit of a shift and he was being represented and so the bodies that sort as a safe space for them to celebrate that cubs and just talk about that if experiences with being sidelined in favour of. Actually Graham's ISKRA LAWRENCE's sort of smaller, very, very beautiful white women and it was becoming very whitewashed and so I felt like women who were a lot larger say size twenty four. Disabled Women, Black Women or women of color. They no longer really see that movement as a space that is meant for them because there is a standard of beauty. Now with body positivity in that, you're not given as much visibility if you do not fit within that standard of beauty, which is your kind of exaggerated hourglass shape and so for me I just think is important to kind of centralized bodies that do not suffer from society privilege in this movement and in general as well. Indeed Thanks guys. I. I love the name of your chapters. So the Chapter I read from is cold navigating the cesspit of fucker that is dating. Title. So chapter one is called body positivity. Okay. But give women back there things. Chopped six, this five body has been complicit breaking my brain and chapter eight, the Lizzo affect otherwise known as about fucking time. Could you please tell us about the chapter called Lizzo effect otherwise known as about fucking time yes and the list of effect is basically that chapter is all about my love four Lizzo and everything that she represents. Yes. Everything that she represents for plus sized black women specifically because I think it's amazing that young girls and boys can now grow up and see themselves in a sense on TV when I was growing up I didn't really have anybody to kind of look up to feel like I had somebody that represented me because the only fat black women that I saw on TV were always maids and slaves or Sassy best friends and so that wasn't really a adequate reflection of who I thought could represent me and so with Lizzo she's just Walked hard and she has completely just taken over the game. She has been such a huge source of inspiration for me I know music is so good music is amazing and it just shows that you know you can be fat, but you can be multifaceted I think one of the big things that society in general has against fat people is that they see us as a monolith. So they see us in the way in which were portrayed on TV fat lazy stupid. Always eating all of these really negative attributes, but we can sing and dance and play the flute and twelve for two hours and I. You know we can do all these amazing things and it's quite. Rubbish to say, but great as well she was the first plus size black woman on the front cover revoke ever, and that was last year and for me like I bought like ten copies of the I was just like cement in this because I never in my life thought that I would ever see somebody that looked like me represented on the front cover revoke and for me that was a huge kind of moment in history for of you know black young girls who never thought they would be represented. In the media, because it very much glorifies whiteness as being the default and everything else is other sites to kind of have uh species is incredibly important and that's something that I think Lizzo has really provided for us and it's going to change specially the lives of the people right now we're experiencing this like upset obviously when we were younger, this didn't exist but the people that are alive now like society changing, it's really exciting to think because of people like her, what is her inspiration? GonNa make someone else? Exciting. How exciting is that to know that there's GonNa be some inspired young girl who's really young right now but at some point she's going chief something. Amazing. The she saw this incredible woman on on are just I think it's great to always reflect on there. So many terrible things that happen but sometimes to reflect on someone like her go, she's just fucking great. Her. Music's great as well. I just WanNa put the either again right just because I did not because I normally don't listen to things or watch things if everyone's banging on about it, I'm not oh shop. So I love Wisconsin much later and so I literally go into Lizzo three and a half weeks ago. Not Looking for any reason I listened to classical music and opera all the fucking time and musical theater and that's it three and a half weeks ago. We had a Richard Bull. Vinyl. Came I put it on with cleaning. Fuck. Founded by Lizzo a few years ago but I knew I was late to the party because everyone's like, oh, you're going to see her she was in London. I was like Lizzo going to see her it didn't get a ticket sadly if you've got one but before Don the first time I've ever heard a talked about someone calling the queen and I thought it was their nickname for the queen was. And I was like this. I was like they were all talking about they will I was like. Such, a Monica's. and. Then, one of those other singing jerome I realized that I think that's the the Queen's dropped. Majesty has dropped to Rome because there was such a allowed reaction to that three and a half week. But just let me know a happened heard some songs I just hadn't sat and listened to the album start to finish. I knew she was obviously but I hadn't sat and enjoyed her before you take any of that judgment and put it anywhere on the Internet. No look. I'm the same. I'm not very good with contemporary music as you know because I googled today what no diggity men bumps i. Doubt. It meets what? Like not lying. Not. Seriously yeah. That's where I visit. Seriously not seriously honestly no diggity. No diggity. But thank you for clarifying. They really can't be honest yet. Thank you everything else. We should know about diggity that I feel like I. Said wrongly. It's a sample of an older song by what the song is. With us. Oh. I know who built with his is and I haven't listened to full album. Adding definitely know who he is. Bill withers. Take your ass home. We. Were talking earlier in the dressing room and I kept killing conversations with dressing was like no save if the stage the stage. But what we were talking about that horrible man on the dating app the thing is he's snagged you. He shocked you he obviously had a good time and I think as you know, someone's having a nice time with you in bed or not. We were saying like men have a thing about it is generally that they fancy you and you were saying, I'm not sure that's true. See I think a lot of desirability is fashion. What's put in front of us? Is desirable changes our vision of what's desirable, very, very easily influenced and what's in fashion, and if you look at art galleries, sin is not really fashionable. Now, it's not fashionable right at the second, but actually was fashionable for very short period, and this is not to in any way denigrate fin bodies either we need to stop. We need to sort of stop making things fascism saying this is the only thing that's desirable. We need to completely stop doing it, but they will always be things that are more or less vegetable. Do you think just the representation of Lizzo changes the desirability of bodies around? I mean I hope so I think she's probably at the moment one of the more prominent. Of Plus is performance women out there doing that thing, and so she's especially in the state she's done a huge of changing what it means to be beautiful what it means to be big and active and doing all of these amazing things. But I I honestly think especially with instagram was still in the throes of seeing bodies like the Kardashians and Nicki Menaj and the sort of extreme hourglass fake bomb kind of trend still raging it still kind of having its Mayan I think for me personally I'm just very wary and hypercritical of when guys? Kind of say that they like have a preference for bigger women just because of my personal experience even though I know, you know there are people that are genuine genuinely do like different kinds of buddies but I think it's important to normalize bigger bodies generally so that people. Don't see us and like recoil with disgust all have unsolicited comments about our way or our health or those kinds of things. So I think Lizzo is doing a great job in just normalizing bodies the honest him and I think we just need to see more of that both in the media and online, and all of these other avenues were different bodies sharing all the time I am we'll say by the fear of finding someone who might fetch shies your size I had exactly the same fair and then I met someone who is into bigger women and it's not a fetish it's literally because he knew. More fun with them. And he always like you know he sees it goes for women on personality and all of his ex is we have. I hate it but we will have you. I thought I was unique in his ex girlfriends. But he he likes strong confident woman and that something that also attracts him is strong confident woman who is strong confident in the face of people telling her that she shouldn't be strong and confident and I didn't like it for ages if anyone who said. Their preference was a big purse and there was part for me that was. Because of internalized phobia that you have for your own size and I think that actually getting to a point where you can and I have to keep reminding myself of this as well. But getting yourself all right Charlotte. She sounds fat she signed. A. But guessing. Getting to that point where that's another stage of the dating situation is getting to that point where you can allow someone to enjoy you because you're not experienced in tool. My dating history varies from guys who were pretending the first guy ever had sex with told. Basically, his friend came over, he didn't get involved. It wasn't a spit roast in on I lost mutagenic agents to let you know you went upstairs and then the rule was that we he said that we shouldn't tell anyone at school because he was quite popular and his friend went in school the next day and told everyone and the guy I had sex with denied it and denied it. This Day an ruined how I find my own sexuality and ten I got older just allowed to enjoy me and that's not something that someone else has to do something. I have to you have lots of internalized shit anyway basically key to making someone fans. You don't give a fuck. Literally. Gillian. Anderson the fall. I know it was a TV program but she acts like she doesn't care and everyone comes around and I tell you the day I stopped looking like I cared if someone fancied me I've never got so much Dick. Shea tips make this is. A. Great. These are great notes. Can, you tell us about pigmentation? It must be the front. That's Chapter Seven Oh. Yeah. So that's the health chapter which is. That was probably one of the hardest wants to write because I wasn't sure whether I wanted to include health in this discussion just because of the fact that I feel when you are in fact day you are constantly constantly asked to defend your humanity and your right to live in the body that you're in and again with the monolith. Every single person that is like over a size eighteen must be unhealthy and must have. Heart disease or diabetes, and all of these things, which is simply not the case you can't sort of take every fat body and just assume that they're all. GonNa. Die, or how ob inferred tall and all of these things and say with this chapter, it largely consists of stories of other plus size women across the world because I definitely ask for input from other people. So it's not just coming from me. I wanted other people's voices to be waving within the book, and so it tells really. Some quite triggering some quite heartbreaking stories of women who have gone to the doctor. Well, they've gone somewhere. They've gone to the hospital because they've to condition and because the doctor has seen them and just judge them for their way they have focused completely on the person's way and have ignored the other issues that the women have had, which then has led onto things like cancer and heart disease, all of these things and even death in some cases because the initial problem that had nothing to do with weight was manifesting while the doctor was talking about this person's way and say for the hyper pigmentation that's basically because I. Wanted to comment what the situation was I had a bruise because I was. Being. Boisterous or climbing trees or something in Babes. Lizzo. One afternoon. Things. because. It just wasn't going to it was on my thigh and it just wasn't going away. So I went to the doctor because I was like I'm not normally if I could breathe. It because my skin's I'm just like I just feel it felt breezy and so I went to the doctor look. There's this bruise on my thigh I fell over whatever it's not going away and he took one look at me and he was like maybe neatly some way and I was just. Tom This is a superficial wound. This has got nothing to do with the rest and my arm away. Kito. Plastic please exactly, and so with the Chapter I, talk a lot about to some of the misconceptions surrounding Fateh, people and Diet and health, and I. Talk About Bmi and how that is completely. Can. The BMI is just to be a my is based on a slim. Athletic White Man, it doesn't take into account muscle mass. When they first created, it was created based on a single individual. He was a white athletic man, and I just kate doesn't into account because a lot of women my height, a catwalk models because they're frame my skeleton is a size twelve. If we're my. Skin walked into most of the boutiques in Paris it would be totally Happy totaling French. Takes before gone to just got or popped in and seen a really nice navy card again with the white trip, it's not for you either just looked and. And just like. You, have no. Idea in Australia as well. I was once told that dress. I try on. I. Was a size twelve pulled off the rack and said electrons on and she that went for you and I was like I'm a size twelve and it would look nice on your slim friend. I cry you just. Jade. I've tried for days because I was really young and yeah and she just wouldn't let me try on BMI doesn't take that into account I probably the same height as Kate Moss. But her wrists are I would I would fit one of her wrist into. My. Finger. Fake News. That's true. That's true I. Know experimental mosses risk. If you're listening Kate I'm sure they're great cheese on a night Kate Moss. That's all I know about just. Quite Fun a nightmare. Stories are not for neither. Have you been on? I haven't, but I know people that have been Kate Moss. Ten anyone. Oh, that's not put it on the podcast. We'll let us about none of these people tweet to this one quick Kate Moss thing. Oh. My God. Are they terrible. Okay. Tennis Sich meet privately in all. It'll be a copy and paste. But do not her up to ten thirty PM thing you want something. Very, specific cutoff. Is that thing I said earlier on, it's the it's the destruction thing. 'cause look I distracted you have been by the way that you feel about yourself since guy did that thing. Is a distraction tools like the BMI Chart was a distraction tool to make us not look at certain stuff and I even think this and I've been thinking about this for a while. I even think this even within the. Body positivity stuff and I. It's so great. My instagram to see so many amazing bodies were. Of Pride and everything. But I, would also think at some point let's get to a point where we're not. We're not the image I think with stuff like that because that's a big kind of body neutrality position I think. In a perfect world I kind of feel like we shouldn't care about what we care about the amazing stuff of what he can do. Focus on our personality traits are talents and the things that we could offer and I think in a perfect world that would be amazing. I think like Communism on paper is Great. When you adopt to into real life, it doesn't what what neutrality I don't think can exist while we still have fat phobia because it's for people that have privileged bodies and can walkabout and not be stat out or memed own photos taken them or people refused to sit next to them or not be able to find clay's in stores. We can not think about our bodies as much as possible, but but society will always remind us that we are fat society wherever we compose. If we're talking to friends family doctors, all of these things people are always going to bring up our way. So we have no choice for the most part to always have way on our minds if you fall outside of the realm of what society considers beautiful. So while I really wish body neutrality was thing and it is for some people definitely I think while people have this fear not so much a fair more this kind of. Fake concerns slash disgust or whatever it is bigger bodies I don't think it can be a thing that could globally will work with everybody. Agreed agreed, and hopefully we will get to that Nevada one day, but it's not going to happen and. No. One of the other brilliant points you make him your book about not commenting on events someone's lost weight or assuming if you look good, you must have a great. Just sort of sometimes I did fertility treatment I put on loads of weight because I was pumping all sorts of things into my body and then I stopped doing that and something else happened in my life and I just ended up losing a lot of weight really quickly and low to people. You look so great you look amazing and just like are you saying that I didn't look great last year because I thought I did and actually I was bigger than I've ever been but we were in a real join for Madman era and I was really dressing up and I thought it looked really hard but the year later when I lost her this way I had so. We'll just kept going about it in one woman she was she'd had a few drinks but I love her but she backed me up into a corner party and said just say you look amazing just admits it and I said I'm Orion actually said I think I looked great before and I look great now but you know I might put on weight again and then you going to back me up. But you going back into a corner and admit you total good as you did in January do so I was like I was no good but she'd had a few drinks and I just wasn't going to get out on this. I said and it felt quite violent because at the end I just had to go. Yeah I look really amazing and I still regret doing it because I, felt a cheetos myself by doing it. She had meant it to be kind but it wasn't about me. It was about her because she has told me before that she has issues with way and somebody brilliant said to me recently that she was when she was young, she'd had more weight on it she was. As as a growing up, she hadn't an anti to really get that. 'cause you used to struggle with your weight when you're a kid. Struggle with your weight and she said I said to her don't you used to struggle with my weight I'll never. And you have to turn around and go are you struggling with my way because it's non you? Got Nothing to do with you. It's a fantastic book is anything you came say that you didn't get to say or anything you want to direct us to I feel like the only other thing I can say is one of the questions I tend to get asked quite often is how to be like a good ally when it comes to the body positive movement or when it comes to accept invest acceptance or the black community, these kinds of things and I think when it comes to because one of the biggest gripes I think people have with people with platforms in the body positive area is that they think? Oh. I'm not allowed in the body positive communities it because I'm slammed, that's like one of the main critiques. We tend to get in that community and I just wanted to say that everybody is allowed to feel however they feel about their body I don't think nobody is saying that you have to be happy because you'll slam or you have to be happy because you have essentially accepted body. But I, think the difference between the actual movement of body positivity and just general everyday self love is that the movement was created for specific bodies in mind it wasn't really created for a free for all everybody. Can Japan unloved themselves because? Slim people you can love yourself loudly anywhere all the time wherever you on you don't come up with any kind of resistance but when fat people love ourselves loudly and unapologetically people don't like it people hasten they don't like to see confident fat people living their lives because we live in a hierarchy unfortunately of desirability where a lot of the Times fat people are at the bottom, and now that we are in this new generation where people are talking a lot more about positive image and we're seeing for two people loving themselves loudly and openly and unapologetically and being successful and having great boyfriends and having great sex and having great jobs. It's almost like sometimes this sometimes. He's not always great. You know just no way long hundred percent of the time and I. WanNa put. My relationship is fucking artwork, right? He currently lives in someone else's flap. We're having a month away from each other it's been intense. Are In, for the best time of my life, my is a been right now he is not telling me to tidy up is excellent. I am. I think is a great idea. Tom. Do you WanNa go away from lockdown? Just, suggestions we have kids and you know he's often slipping inland east avenue. All. Time everyone's fine. Okay. I went away for a week as well, and it's just good because lockdown. It's quite told I've got onto super. Well, it's just. It's quite. Because if he'd not seeing other people as much astles intense, I wanted to say something that thing you were just talking about about people feeling like they're excluded from the fat acceptance and body positive movement because they're not. One of the bodies that it was designed for my. Way To solve this is get fat and then you can be there if you don't WanNa get fat and maybe you shouldn't be in the Group More case of all, say like there are people that you want to talk about this and love their bodies loudly. But there are ways in which you can do that way you don't send to yourself in the conversation. So if that means uplifting and re tweeting reposting bodies, our full outside of what is seen as privileged all. Just increasing visibility of black voices a fighter abroad as disabled. What is all of these kinds of things and not always retain thinness as the ideal then are ways in which you can't be allies like include yourself in the movement without. Making about your body and it's privilege to so many people in my world I know who have teenage daughters who suffer from an eating disorder who are thin I don't want to also say if your thin person. That is struggling with image with weight. You are also part of this conversation and you're absolutely also part of Patriarchy telling you that you need to take control over something absolutely important ground and we all feel these feelings. So this particular discussion is around fat bodies moving through the world and Stephanie's Book I think everyone should read it because it's about black fat women walking through the world and what that experience is. But if you yourself are feeling these feelings and you have anxiety around white and you feel you have an eating disorder, even a mild one speak out about get help. There's absolutely no there's nobody in the world that you could possibly have that doesn't deserve to feel loved that doesn't deserve to be nourished and doesn't deserve to be moved. So. Please what everybody you've come in here tonight or you're listening to around the world. Love it look after and speak to someone if you feel that you're not doing those things. I just want to say why at that beautiful moment that we have this woman? Did the most incredible sneeze I've ever heard in my mind. I could say. Actually. That's very when did you have that negative Cova Test Forte. Okay. So if you haven't gotten. That's great news for everyone. One of my favorite acts coming out now, please put your hands together and making credible goes from his noises for the wonderful Jay. Just, some thoughts that I've been having recently, as I told you already one when we had that moment where we were gasping when I listened to a whole lizzo album. I will think about that guys I also have just watched the fifty shades of grey franchise. So. Late to the party also terrible terrible movies. fucking terrible but Jamie Dornan. He was making at the saints I'm as the full I mean what a range. I was thinking that fifty shades of grey is porn for women I went on. Once one of things porn websites you know. Just What the boys were looking at, and there is a lovely. This'll section called porn for women recommend highly. And you have to find it like dig deeply into the into I mean you gotTa get past a lot of horrific stuff. But if you're one of those people like me that can just remove things from your mind what you've seen them. You'll be great but I was thinking that fifty shades of grey is literally like porn for women and why I say that is because it is the unrealistic fantasy for women like me who believe that they can change your mom. and. I i. came after watching it. Bit in fifty shades of grey, where Christian walks her up his aeroplane up the stairs with her in his arms and I was thinking when I was watching that the only way that which could do it is if we were in the sea or we were on the moon. And there was this other bit which isn't there's no punchline or anything but this is a little bit. He gives her this one of the one of the movies it gives little charm bracelet and she goes. Why What was funny the priceless it doesn't look funny and it's like Shit charm bracelet or I. Also, have a little. This might be slight controversial and I say this as someone who knows The wonderful woman who sat next to me both of us have. been attacked before and spoken about our love for this particular fashion designer. But I was thinking about Vivienne Westwood's and how I always got lots of Vivienne Westwood. What I mean is I have a lot of hats and shoes from Vivienne Westwood because Vivienne Westwood does want to save the planet, but she doesn't want address people anyway. Am I, wrong nope. Wrong because I'm telling you IDA for in anything diverse. All right yes. Fat. She might have missed the turnoff Vivienne Westwood. Lately Yeah I mean. So, much going on there. But you wearing earrings I am wearing one as I as I slack off. That's why. I have a one airing in it because I lost the other one and I was like cool. Isn't it yet? Where one? earing? I'M Then I was thinking about hi, pleased. I am. Cova has lessons because it was very intense when we were living together like I said my partner and I think I told you this. So we moved another person in Oh no, I didn't tell you. So we moved someone in because we were having couples therapy just before, and then the government said to us Oh, you're gonNA have to stay with each other for five months and we looked at each other and when. Way. So we have a friend who lives on his own because his girlfriend's in New York and we told him we're very worried about your mental health you need to come live with us. And he's to dilute to dilute the arguments and we were on our best behavior and. What was really funny is because I didn't stand up anymore. All I had was cooking and I did like Heston style cooking on the two of them and I find that I had an audience just like I do for stand up and it felt the same except for the guy who moved him with but way on and was really annoyed about it and I want. To come and stay reading. But one thing I will say just to finish this off is I'm so pleased some things are starting to go back to normal I am very sad about one thing though I will say this I'm very sad about the defense of the opera if you if you've seen me before, you'll know bite my massive obsession with fans of the opera I phoned a friend who would understand about this because we've Sung Phantom at each other with. Alexa volume ten think of me. So I. Find I find her up and she reminded me that, yes, found some of the Oprah is no longer on the west end but what this does open up. Is Rural areas in the UK, putting on their own version of the opera because who doesn't want to see the Basilan players do found. Because now, it's not it's not competing with Western show. So you that'd be allowed be over now and that will happen for a law that will that will happen all over the country. You could tore a one woman show just you could just perform in fields. I do him I just want to be him though not her or the CARLOTTA would enjoy Dara. Have my pernicious needle. To. Do the whole thing all. Really. Good idea yeah, can you? what? Do Need. To. I'm just getting message from Shong. She's saying she'd like to be A. She's the Phantom of Gothic and she likes to. She'd liked to she'd like you to write a musical the Phantom Gothic I'm I'm I've got her name now i. Think some in for. Someone else to play the piano. United play cores and kissing you by deaths right So. I had piano lessons in the ninety s I shouldn't have and then stopped. No diggity. So before we get a musical act on where can we follow? You will see you Jada. All the social medias including tiktok Haifa I'm doing and tell us about your TV show Netflix. Sure. Oh. Yes. So I'm on Netflix or channel four at the Netflix's want the bear. On netflix's with Heston Blumenthal where the show crazy. Delicious which is all about food and Ian Grey or snack masters, which is on Channel Four which is all about food and snack food. We got mission on ways. Really Great. We've got Michelin starred chefs to recreate famous British snacks with in either made, and all they get is the snack they lose their mind. It's fabulous. Won't monsters. SACK. Masters You can tell it's good because I had comedians get in touch me go in because they don't. You don't watch each other stuff that much and are comedians get in touch that snuck masters things. Roy. Is this really fun so I know it's not bad. What's what what we think? We've monster munch. We just did Domino's pizza their fresh. I didn't know they made the pizza basis on site. This is fascinating. Okay. Tell you want to watch is my Amazon Prime Special Sirius Black Jumper, which is a show I wrote I did my own feminist show last year, which I would love you to come and watch watch online on Amazon prime you. Thanks very much anymore watch serious by trump up on Amazon prime and pleased by fashionable after by Stephanie Yobo think. It's been so wonderful to be back. I mean, who knows how many more shows will be allowed to but this is fed my soul in so many different ways. It's just wonderful being with you just really tired today and I just just refresh me and revivify me and made me feel like I'm home again. So thank you so much. I love you all genuinely for the bottom of my heart, but more than normally love you because no, don't get see you anymore. So thank you really really do it's been amazing. A huge pros for the. Atoms. Festival. It. Now. She's is such a talent I just she makes me cry she makes me feel the incredible opera. Cool. Today don't need much introduction. I think quite self explanatory part from the little phrase I'm going to saying which is. As, Sufi phrase from bullish. That inspired the song about singled blind blind is about blindness to our true selves to spirituality to the things that we decided not to see the injustice in the world can be relate to many things. And I'M GONNA put a little twist on it. By adding skulls beats full by Alexia Kara I don't if it's going to work never done it so. I'm just going to try and see what it sounds like. feel free to join in in that light chorusing but if you. John. John. Golden key John. Gone. On Ankle. Key. Jarno. There was a time. droids be everythin- A. So no. Juice believed anythin- every time I thought of a question now left. Saying this is the way of the world now except. See I don. How to talk. Animal. Don't even knew how to work. More, don't understand what this is only. Paying guides use won't work gain AMMO. So. A great body. And I'll want to own. WILL MIND ME Ready Sold Seldom, not try buying me Gazebo. Don't Know Ryan. Jews even I don't know who I. I, don't know A day. I got sick of feeling. Buried Saudi. Your words couldn't he you me? Rather serve to kings. Lie. And not ever re thing they think is Ri-. See there's always been fire in this. Might shown you if I could. There was always Watson. I Live Marcel Fall. So say. Grade Body Line. I WANNA goal. They will mind me. Eddie. Also. them not try by me. Here's even I don't know where Brian. Even I, don't. Know who can. Even. I don't know Anywhere anywhere. In He. Anywhere anyway but he? Anywhere anywhere. Anywhere. Anywhere. Bodies. Don't know Brian. Do. This we. NERD. Huge should know you're beautiful on just away you. You don't have to change a thing. The world could change are new scars to beautiful we're starting beautiful. Scars to your beautiful winstone. Thank you so. Are. You can find. On social media. I C. K A you all. We can buy your music find on spotify look her up. She's upset incredible. She's done. This is your third guilty. Now fourth is your fourth guilty factors that of course, because you did this one as well this is a fourth from some sure. Some of you will have heard before, but she never doesn't make my the everything stand up. That sounds route. You know what I mean. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you so much Stephanie. Thank you so much. New Normal Festival. Wiping. Absolutely incredible. Thank you so much. The. Sixth GUILTY FEMINIST WITH Special. Reporting. Dylan. PODGE producers Thompson. XP. Does not. This. is coming thanks for coming up. This well, it's a tricky one now isn't it? Because it's like the Patriarchy cutting you off but only so that you'll be louder. It's a real conundrum for a man like Oh. Yeah, that's much. Maybe. You should say the line about anti-gay because I think people only heard. So Anti Fox. Obviously. That's what I heard that didn't get as big laugh as it should've it should've got way more say. Honestly The guilty feminist will be appearing at the London podcast festival at Kings Place on Saturday the twenty sixth of September all the two hits to come and see us live of sold out. But you can get tickets to view the live stream at seven pm and your tickets also allow you to view it for another seventy two hours after that. so that's not convenient. You have a three day window to get your tickets go to King's place doc hurt at UK or the Lincoln website. He huge thank you to all of our mazing patrons sponsoring us at the smash the Patriarchy level or above Jonquil coys. Sarah Brown and Sarah. Boom.

Alexa Tom instagram twitter US Lizzo baker Robert Morrison partner Alexa writer Princess Chad Stephanie Alex Charlotte Robertson Brian C. C Graham
221. Making Money Matter with Sindhu Vee and guests Emma Howard Boyd and Henna Shah

The Guilty Feminist

1:14:03 hr | 2 months ago

221. Making Money Matter with Sindhu Vee and guests Emma Howard Boyd and Henna Shah

"I'm a feminist. My friend. He doesn't have any children and he had to take his nieces at very short notice because his sister was injured and he was saying I might go Latino. It's a whole thing having children isn't it? And I refer to him immediately as Mr. Mom. I was like, oh, how's it going being Mr Mom mister mom now, Mr Mom if you're a very young person, you won't know this Mr Bom is a film from the starring Michael Keaton and the entire parties a mom looks after his own children. That's the football. And he he doesn't know which end of the child's the food goes in. He doesn't know how vacuum hoover works. He doesn't know he doesn't know the basic things about how to sit upright in a chair all which of these children might be his. He doesn't know anything and that's the whole plot of the movie and I put this on twitter when I realized what I'd said I just said. Missed him, on this And loads of young people said I thought like joking about this would've been an eighties movie but they looked it up and one of them said, what happened to all his female relatives did they die? Why is he in this predicament? But it's so funny. You could not have a movie called Mister Mom now in which a father cannot bay the trust his own children and get them out of the House and Cook a basic meal order from delivered like you could not do that. Now that's why this podcast exists. So he can come here with stuff like that and thank God I really did say that indeed does your your husband. Good. Looking after your children, he's very good at it. He likes having kids and he's good at it. He also Danish and they're sort of not raised with so much gender stereotyping at all to the point where it bothered my mother I remember when she first saw him doing stuff. Said what's wrong with him now say, what do you mean? She said he's making a D- For me and you and him. Is he alright she never understood what was going on with that because he also had a job. She said what he also goes to office she couldn't put those two things together. Yeah so he's good. He's good I mean there's always a thing of, is he raising them the way I? Think he should. But of course, he's not because he's very nice to them all the time even when they don't do what they should. But that's why they always prefer to have him sort of. Be. The. Which is why my comedy career has really suited the children they're like, please go by. Five here by. I've heard your son up on this that he's a very scanty dot very scandi. So not like he's not a pushover, but he's he's very, he will make Brioche and then put fin chocolate, which is called Polish later in Denmark. Purchase thin strips of childhood on it for breakfast for the kids. And, they eat this and I'm like, wow, that's amazing to me. I mean, look the police is coming to a house even hearing the story that emergency services how towing that. It's it's to take the children away. Now they've heard of this Brioche with tougher of Sti for breakfast on a school day who does this? It's a lot of sugar in the morning but you know like he's this is the thing is he's Danish. That's a Danish thing. If you're in Copenhagen somebody well, offer you some kind of sweet treat for breakfast I am a feminist but I was. Disappointed that this podcast is only on audio and not zoom because I've had my hair done. Oh it's so beautiful. Actually you know what I noticed. I'm a feminist, but I didn't say I didn't say my God you look. So beautiful. Thank you. I'm a little disappointed because you know I would like all the guilty feminist. Siemian but they'll. They'll be a picture and I didn't have any makeup on. So it's going to look exit I've my hair is three days old and I've got no makeup on an opinion registrable I feel very grungy next to your grandma I'm a feminist but I think I saw you looking glorious and I thought. I didn't think Cindy Glorious I was like Oh Cindy Looks Glorious and to be honest I feel like meeting close female friend. Especially, in a work situation when she's had to blow dry and you haven't, it feels like a hostile act it is I know I, know I know it is a little bit of that act because especially when it's someone you know well and you really like them. All, you can think when they show up and they're still well together as you know what fuck you. Obviously do feel that, but then you think I like you. So it's not like a bad fuck you. It's kind of like. Why don't you give me a heads up I just dropped me a text they do bringing all my game used to now. I'm looking like I get it. So and it's a sign that it's. It's it's such a compliment to me that you felt like that Debra I love that I will ask though you're. Guilty feminist again. That which I hope you will many times. This is not a final warning. Bunny means why I'm saying it's not an ultimatum. What I'm saying to you is when you talk again, if you have a blow will need forty eight hours motors. I'll give you the heads up. Yes. All Puns. I'm a feminist but when I saw Ed milliband take Boris Johnson Apart in the House of Commons I thought for. Like I mean it was it was good. I've never had a van before for obvious reasons that sounds mean I know not fencing someone doesn't sound ministering. His reasons it's just five reasons being that he's not your type. He's that's the obvious reason that is the obvious reason I have to admit to you. This is a true story I met Lebron once it was often resigned as Labor leader and I said, what are you doing now and he said I'm still an MP He. and. I went of course you are you know everybody says that He's at his Co. Tories. If they have a position and they tend to resign as an MP and fuck it if I'm not important, I might as well be not anything. I'll go off and make some money and do after speaking and work in the city or something but or go shooting just go fishing policies of seven. If you, you're an internationalist, the Google it it's one of our covert things if only six children can get together for a birthday party but numbers up to how many thirty thirty if you grouse-shooting or doing any kind of really pushed sport Boris Johnson Might, Want Day then thirty show fair. Yeah but I did, I. Don't know and I felt so bad. Let's sit that to him was so embarrassed because he was saying I love your parts like I love your podcast and we were getting on like a house on fire and then I said, what else do you do? What's your main job? Now I'm an MP and I went of course, you already went Rono everyone else. We that everyone thinks resigned as an MP I haven't I've just resigned as Labor leader I'll never forget one of such not Roman I. Still I still think about it. He was probably thinking about that today just as he was taking barshop Zapanta wasn't he's recovered I. Don't remember him being a huge having huge MP energy before that. I mean I'm sure you know he was an MP but. He's 'em. Panaji like big DIG Kennedy. Of course. You know big MP energy is like for example I'll I'll tell you you know there are people that are not the leaders of their party, but they are big NPR energy. Energy. Look at the size of that backbencher. He can back bench any day I have. cred batch my back any day. Bench or she the MP was a politician all the time. Spoken for so long and this podcast is sort of really trying to contain that energy of not having hung out for a long time. I re true. We should hang out let's gross you shooting and then we'll bring everybody bring home gang. We can have a grouse shoot guilty feminists we travel on the audience could follow Yemia guest and then twenty seven people in the audience and. How dry the grouse would be the plague. Scare them off without chat, and then we would we wouldn't be able to shoot anybody outside. We went able to kill any defenseless birds in you're little and you read books but they're not from your context. So you kind of Skim, the bits that you don't understand. But I don't know how many of you have but I grew up in India I would read these kinds of my dad read a lot of pg waterhouse would read these books nobis phrases. But I wouldn't I thought it was grouch shooting for so long. which shooting grumpy people yeah. Grow shooting. I thought Oh they've all got into the country to shoot. What grouch shooting only when I was later I was like you idiot, it's grouse. Walking out and shooting grouchy people. Let's just. I had a thing where in Enid Blyton they'd say he, Jackie dated, which meant he exclaimed. And my husband trump's alinsky because he'd been reading I think some PG Woodhouse, which had he lated, and so he put it in a creative writing essays but he was a kid thinking he was being very suave and the teacher called him up to the front said I'm Tom what does this word main and Tom explained his definition and he looked it up at the dictionary. And then he closed expert okay and Thompson can I see what it says that he went? No. Teacher. How the teacher not no, and it well done Thompson inskeep putting that word in in the correct non gutter context there's no Gusta in the young Tom Slit skis mind this very little guttering the old our. Land is much more. PG, would house that he is you know. Whatever there he is. You know porn hub I think. Putting his hand up now because he wants to contribute. PG Thirteen was. A. Guy And a half that's substantial. He should be really doing this. I'm a feminist barbs. Today I saw on the BBC website women who start businesses in lockdown my thought no, I don't see those. No interest in seeing those I don't I can't start up businesses now are barely can remind limping along white. Why would I I'm sure there are wonderful an encouraging, and I should look the Matt Great Great Guests Guilt specialist and yet I continue not to look at it com-. Too much everyday I got up and look at them. No it's the sort of equivalent of pitching up here with this blow dry. For no good reason. Try Service. Happy no no, no no. Okay. So I have to do one. I'm a feminist but. Even though I've been recovered from corona for three and a half months. I keep saying I'm too tired to do things around the house and my son finally said to me he's a teenager he said mom. You totally find now why are you saying that and I said, don't you know that? Women are just we're just more frail. So could you? said. So could you just do the dishes and out said to me I can't even believe and I'm like. If. I'm a feminist, but I don't like fucking doing dishes for five people so that out of it and I had corona so ships. From a variety of bedrooms and kitchens via zoom. Shop presents the guilty feminist with me process by guest host. Our very special guest, Emma Howard, Boyd, and Hannah Shaw talking about making money matter. This is guilty feminist. The ball which we explore on noble goals is twenty facility feminists, opposition insecurities, which undermine I'm Deborah, Frances white with me a singer me and today we are talking about making money matter for feminism. So soon, TV alot. Let's just start for ten. You used to be. I WANNA find a nicer way of saying this cont a banker. A nicer way would be to say investment banker because then you really know I was ripping people off I wasn't I wasn't taking in checkbooks and stuff I was taking money. When I say bank. Teller. Someone who stands there stops exactly because sometimes when you say Bancorp people that have like a soft and fuzzy idea what I do, there's no need for that I was an investment banker. and. I am. I was moving money around I was sending bonds I loved it and I fully own it. that I did that. But yes, that was an investment banker. Correct. Now coming in this is the difference in cats and kids cats don't have. Not Eastep or I'll take your ipad away. You see I can see that my kids will enter the store. Yes we're coming. We're coming in we don't care. Sense. Of Reiner. Own Morality punishment rewards. They're just like if you give them a tree that like I deserve it exactly at that if I do Ni- them treat it like you mean, you're an asshole. The. Cat I'M A dog. I'm such a dog and let a cat I've always admired that cat five of like, hello why are you not doing something for me? Will me too. But I believe that people who had dogs won't cats and people who have cats dogs. Dude I'm a dog and I only want dogs. I don't want cats friends you ever mmediately ruined. When you do statistics, there's always the one sample that prove that you are hypothesis and that straight exception that proves the real no mine every reason people who are eager to please in life are eager to please their cat when I come home and see Oh does this cat love today people who? Themselves are not eager to please do not WANNA please anybody. So they want a dog that when they come in the door that all of love you and I go. Yes, you do. Yeah I my theory on that is very dogs and dogs Mary cats get into relationships with. Beverage Era Yeah Does Thomson Ski Catching Line always a bit of a dog with me see that's nice though because he's there for you. Scattered life get with me get get get your. Life. But I'm a capstone. Let's just realized. Oh my mileage right which I made up little these eighteen seconds ago you walk US Virginie's. there. When we've come back from like holidays when those Yes yes. Really in. We don't really really come back from Christmas and I've seen one of my cats turned to the other with face as if to say I, thought you find these waiters. Bank because they've had cats citizen I think they're the new waiters and the thing is I behave like a dog with the world but was Thomas Alinsky I'm very capable of lying in bed going canoe coffee place that. So no way that our cats will expect us to wait on them hand and foot. So similarly SYMINGTON. Hey Good I. Think I. Think we talk about this. Talk About Mentoring I. Agree I agree boring. Five guests who have absolutely not come to talk about cats and dogs and get dog marriage and etc, and waiters and such. In date indeed, our guest today who will be hearing from later but they're on the zoom. So we need to make them feel included in case they wanNA heckle like the hecklers and the muppets. So I just want to say we have one guest today is the chair of the Environment Agency in the UK. Commissioner to the Global Commission on Adaptation. Her name is Emma Howard Boy Hello Emma. Hello everyone. Great to be here, and she's joined by the campaign adviser for make my money matter who is also a founding organizer of Hashtag charity. So why it's Hata Shah? And on music this week. It's Katie Brooks. Katie I'm sorry use need to say something. So feel free to chip in up until the point when we bring you in officially because you are today our official policy while we still not back in theaters due to the fact that there is global pandemic here in Camden. Hello Gotti feminists. It's Jessica Regan here from big speeches I'm inviting you to come and see me do my own big speech to come to some actual live theater and not just any life Sir safe socially distanced prominent performances of Claire Dowie's the Year of the Monkey, a series of surprising and searing monologues performed by. Myself. Jessica. Regan. Katrin. Aren unpolished frame at the split surroundings of the Chelsea Physic- gardens. Safe. All in accordance with the latest government guidelines, please use the offer code podcast twenty or lower case to get twenty percent of your tickets. Go to Chelsea Visit Garden Dakota UK to book your tickets now. Thank you so much. So today. are talking about making money matter feminism. So I'm going to tell you everything I know about money when I was a kid my sister saved all her pocket money. She still got it underwriting up. She would bank her pocket money and I one hundred percent will tell you. She was still have bank accounts with a pocket money in because she has the biggest safer I on the other hand had credit very young age because Australia. You could lay by things and layby was like I think in America layaway. In Britain but you would go and she would put down say there was a nice dress and you didn't have the money and you didn't have a credit card you could put. Down, and then you'd come back next payday and you another ten dollars down and you could pay it off, and then when you had to pay it all off, you got to take it away and it was always very exciting. You can white much better than a credit card because credit card, you buy the dress, you wear the dress it didn't change your life it turns out. It's now on the bedroom floor crumpled heap and he's still paying off. So layby is. A much more exciting proposition if you never pay off, you never pick it up and keep whatever the money was that you left. So you're also incentivized keep paying off and but I have I to presents my mother I know how adorable and I would go there was a kitchen shop that had sort of like red animal kitchenware and we bought her something for her birthday that was read national kitchenware and she expressed great delight I probably because we were children and. I love it I. Love It. And I took this literally probably like great kitchen I don't know maybe who knows. So I paid another thing every time we go to the shopping as a family, I would go and give a little bit more of my pocket money I. Remember the now when I look back the achieve of the woman who thought I was so sweet because I was paying off something for my mother. So she would give me discounts and she'd be like what it mistake at this week be like five dollars to go and she I think it's fine. I think it's gone on sale now as she would just give it to me. She felt. So I was buying presence with money didn't have when I was a little girl and I still operate that way pretty much i. think the first thing I have to a pension is that I regularly take old close to help the aged 'cause. I feel like if I take all close to help the aged I'm investing in them and one day they will help me when I am aged I, think I might have tiny pension somewhere but my real plan is just to become very successful like writing. TV scripts and things like. That and it'll be fine like my plan is mostly it'll be fine and I'm sure not a good plan but mainly, I, feel money is a made up concept is not real. It stopped meaning gold years ago countries print money all the time. Why am I spending my life in the service of a made up thing? It's like if I said to you or got three hug token Sindhu and if you give me that cake I'll give you three hug tokens and you can try that's what it's like I'm not spending my life worried about. Your made up to Ken's are not going to rule how I spend my days I'm knob sounding aggressive like I'm accused of the system you've never offered me token and ovid whether so you wouldn't be able to anyway this is where your tub took. Nelson do you can't even hug me no, I mean I have to say I never offered how tokens to anybody and if no one's ever bother too often because I've been like, no, thank you. Could I have money instead? I do like money I like money what money can buy I mean I'd rather it didn't exist and we had something else that wasn't capitalism but given capitalism alike the things that buys like freedom time the ability to just go his x amount to choose law for you know friends need something or i WanNa throw an extravagant party for someone make them feel loved or whatever I I like money for what it can do but I've no. Real interested sitting watching mount up a bank I don't really know was in my bank account. Most of the time I say Tom, do you know what's in that account or if there's if that's you know in the red or the black or whatever, and I know I need to get better at these things and I am sure that I need a pension because and I'll tell you why I donated a black jacket to help the aged. And then boasted back accidentally because I walked possible. That's a nice jacket and that looks I can see me Oh that's a designer I like and I went in and tried to dawn on I. thought that it's me it's a bit worn but actually for the price, it's fine and when I got home, I realized it was and I knew it was mine because I had a note in the pocket and it was mine. So my current pension plan is donate to help the aged. Then by the clothes back and in event, that's like a pension isn't that that's as good as a pension. Hashtag if you're listening, it's not as good as a pension don't. For me, this is jokes. This is jocular low jokes jokes, but it's not far from the. Truth. Sindhu. You are an expert in money because you were in fact as discussed a banker. Yes. So first of all back this up a pocket money every time I needed money I'd have to mom and say, once a money into it see why not tolerant you'd say, no how did you buy presents full her if you didn't have, you didn't Baida in India, there's no contract buying your parents presence it says other thing. Like what would what? Birthday. My Dad would organize cake and flowers, and then we'd be a card from all of us. Give. US Some money and say go buy a card that was it. We didn't have pocket money. We didn't have that kind of independence other kids did we didn't my like you don't need this thing so and. Then later, I remember when I was at university and I used to want to buy cigarettes which I couldn't tell my parents because they didn't know. Many things that you know. So that I would borrow money off my friends, and then in some, there's a few festivals or celebrations during the year and kids get money. And one of them, he need tie threat to your brother and he usually gives you money. So I would have this money and then pay back my friends or whatever, and I would sit on mom I need to buy lunch and then by then my mom was working so she'd give me money was always kind of relationship with money was always it's important because it's freedom. But. I don't know where it's GONNA come from. Like I didn't have any relationship to money that originated out of me. And then I was supposed to arrange marriage. So my mom was always looking just always say this is a good boy, but he's not an easy each. At I remember thinking, well, what about the other parts of his personality and she'll shut up don't know anything about marriage which I didn't but it was my marriage and then I remember I got a scholarship to come to the UK to study which means they paid my fees and they gave me just under five thousand pounds a year to live on. That was the first time I had my own money I immediately spent all my money. In one go on cigarettes and pizza, and then was like now what? And my other friends who've come with me from India when I doing, you need a budget I had no I was like, oh My money look I have one at couldn't money came out of a hole in the wall. I had no idea. This thing I had a card and then they asked me do you WanNa overdraft I was like, what's that debt debt? Of. Because I used to hear stories like that. So with the money I think the thing was I was terrible with it I had it was travel with it but I wanted to be a professor. So it's not like I was trying to make a lot of money when I became for whatever reason a banker I'll be very honest with you. I could not believe what was going on I was like, how is anyone paying anybody this kind of money and I was a junior bank it like I was making tons of money. Of course, many standards I was but banking standard. I remember I used to do this thing because also you have to remember for me financial independence was also whatnot getting married to someone that I didn't want to marry you whatever I used to do this thing deborah and I will say it out loud in the first three months of joining banking, which to me was really aware of being free. I didn't even know how to do the job I used to go to the ATM. I lived in Notting Hill, at the time, there was a team on Kensington High Street. I used to go the cotton and stare at my bank balance which Darod. Because couldn't it wasn't? You know people think bankers and millions the people who join as associated don't money but I just look at it and I would think. All the things that I want to do with this money and then do nothing. But I sent a lot of money home. To my mother for various things that's what I started buying her gifts. But what I realized early on when it came to money was that a women? have. Much more complicated relationships with money than men women tend not to plan for the future and put their money away or there's always shadow dancing with women and money doesn't matter how much money you have. And I also realize. Women were growing up at these migration were growing up not expecting to be originators and managers of their own money. So when it was coming and women in banking when it was coming the always talked what I'm going to shop in New York I bought a new handbag but I never heard anyone say that a pension. or about him money management, it was my father always said to me must save money. And then my mother used to call him and said, did your father for new to save money? into him, he's very boring. No. Use Your money and buy Mercedes. God. Now, I don't even drive. But you do I. realized that in banking that for some reason, I hope that our panelists today will be able to talk to this as well women. Didn't have coherent or. It was harder to understand for women to deal with the fact that they had money and what to do with their futures and I didn't WanNa fall into that because I had this feeling that I was going to be responsible for my own future because I wasn't getting married and as my mother said, now you twenty seven. In America I heard a freeze she is on the shelf. I want to tell you that you have fallen behind the shelf into the floor. Fell behind the show I have disappeared you'll never get married twenty seven she said that to me So I thought what if I'm going to be behind the shelf an older that I may as well know what to do about money. So I did think a bit more about it. I saved some I didn't do that much but I just Did you know sort of kept a little bit of an eye on it and then I got married and my husband is you. Jerry. Rational and organized and I had this thing where when I first got my own apartment I used to get these notices in the post. And they would say council tax and council tax and I used to look at them and I think what? I'm not part of the council I would throw them away. I didn't know what they were and then they started getting read. I thought what is this will lead I thought maybe success in a rented. One day before I was going to work I was doorbell rang and there was two guys outside the flat and they said, we are the bailiff. And I was like what's that? I have to get to work I used to leave at six? Am I was like, what do you mean I have to work and they said no we. Council type facility, but I'm not part of the council maybe the owner of the fact they were like, what council do you want to be part of? The council to be part of to pay the dues to the council I think they thought I was crazy talking. I'm not part of the council but they said, well, we've come to take your stuff. and. I was like, well, you have to appreciate this is a furnished flat does not even my ship. And then I realized that I was in some kind of trouble of course started crying. Because I did not want to get deported. Indian. Chase my mother. Crying. These guys calmed me down. They then told me that I could do on the spot payment big Shitload of money which I did and I give them. DNA cried biscuits and tea and then they left. They were very nice. But my husband when he heard the story, he was like how about I handle the finances otherwise we're all going to jail. You know but I do think that when it comes to money women, there's a weird thing. The weird thing is the history of the world like obviously there are some women who are. Right on it and there's some men who absolute yom but you know it's no surprise if there's a trend towards men asserting themselves fiscally asking for bonuses asking for raises. Assuming they can you know shuffling money around and Da Da da that's just the history of the world if you watch 'em. At Wardi and films about banking all of the administrator of the secretaries, everyone was male. It's a very, very short period of time that women have been added. Now, this is not say obviously, there's Banking is very I. Mean they're always trying to get more diversity and. It's still very mild to main, but obviously, you know some of the most brilliant mathematical banking minds money minds in the world are female and many many people I know who don't have anything. Approaching, like a working idea of money male. But if there's a trend, it's an historical trend and instill a geographical trend. Some parts of the world where women are still denied access to money or a access education access to certain sorts of jobs. That's where we need yesterday. Exactly. So to bring on guests in who we introduced earlier we I have a Howard buoyed as I said, she's the chair of the Environment Agency and she's what in financial services for twenty five years and is an expert in the. Corporate Governance Sustainability Fields. She's joined by the campaign adviser for make my money matter who is also a founding organizer of Hashtag charity say a political activists to charge trustee that Hannah Shaw. So Hallo and Hannah. Eighth I could just link to what was saying about women saving the average pension pot for sixty five year old woman in the K. is thirty, five, thousand, eight, hundred pounds, which is a fifth of the average pension pot from. And I. Think they're in law as the reason why it is so important that you're hosting this discussion this evening so that women really get to understand the importance of saving. The brilliant make my money matter campaign comes in. Two fold. Firstly, we know that women are really interested in with diversity issues whether it's planetary issues whether rich nature whether it's carrying. that. If they all going to invest, they want to know that their money is being invested in the light kind of companies. And if they also understand that that is going to perform well. So you're going to make a return own bat money, which is incredibly important to safeguard your future. Life. Time when you are retiring beyond earning money and again, the average cost of residential care is something like one hundred, thirty, two, thousand pounds. So if only saved around thirty, six thousand pounds and then you end up having to go into residential care as a massive mismatch before you think about just everyday living. Perhaps by emphasizing making money matter more women will really say the value of saving because it's about saving into a world worth retiring into. Yes. I need to think about this part of me thinks will the world here because of climate change and sustainability and am I sort of Pushed, stashing money away that I could be. Using usefully now, but we have to act as if everything will be here and how the choice of our pension means that it's more likely that some things will you know that the world will be here not on fire What particularly having seen saw the news items recently about climate change fires in California I think you're right to ask that question. But when we all think about the things that we can do to make a difference and there's a whole range of different things that we can do. Often. What people do not realize is that you can have a massive impact no matter how small your savings might be by sending a very, very strong signal to the fund manages the people who are managing the money on your behalf to encourage demand the companies in which they're investing to prepare for the shocks of climate change, but also set on the right path. Towards reducing the sorts of missions that we know are having impacts on the world. And Research is showing that that impact that you can have twenty seven times greater than other things you can do like turning to victims eating less meat. So, because I thought being vegan would be one of the biggest things she could do. It still is and you should still do it but I say from my place of trying to cut out me, it's can increasingly Bart's you're saying this is more important. Now we should say it's a privilege is important it everything's We. Doing. But you kind of very strong signal. So do everything don't give up veganism to do this. If you're trying to be more plant-based design, keep on trying to be plant based and do this. We should say it's a privilege to have a pension or there are lots of people listening that it makes absolutely living hand to mouth and unlike lol or what I just talked to my fund manager There are many many feminists and many women who wouldn't even identifies feminists because they like I am so busy trying to keep a roof over my head and some food on the table for my children I cannot be engaging. With this. So we start from saying this a privileged place but if you don't have a pension and you think, I've got the kind of job where a possibly could put something assigns and now it makes me worry that men at my level have a pension and I don't admit at my level have a bigger pension and I don't and I I want that window to be closed or oh yeah, I've got a pension because I'm I've got that kind of job where they give you a pension or yes yes. Yes. I've done that sort of boring thing where I've just gone to my you know whoever it is. Can I please have a pension or you might be riveted by pensions I don't know if you're listening in your any of those, you can speak to your fund manager and say, where is the money that I'm giving you being invested right now I need to know where is this she aware is next year who is trying to turn it into a little bit of money into more money so that I've got some money when. I'm very old beyond what the state gives me. If by the time we're all the state gives us anything because it's possible that there won't be any money left. So how do you go about knowing who your fund manager is? Emma this is where it's also important to recognize that we've also seen the introduction of workplace pensions, which means that if you're an organization above a certain size, you have to offer a pension to your stuff. and. Again, this shows that whether a woman or a man often people don't realize recognize that there is a pension pot that is being built up on your behalf. And so it's really. Key to still asking questions maybe that it's your hr manager. That can provide you with the detail of where to start on this quest but even before that and we've seen it with fantastic action led by students. Talking to if you're at university or colleges where there are. Endowments owned by those colleges. There is way different ways of influencing money but talking about pensions, it's really kate the east both with those. Individuals within your organization who are helping you with. Understanding that that is available to you and then drilling down into the questions of how that money is being managed. Sindhu you know more about money than me I feel like you should awesome pertinent questions on be bringing in I. Think what I want to ask Hanna first up is what exactly does make my money matter do because I think we'll see the link with what MSA show money is a new campaign co founded by this pretty cool cool at least work in number ten. And should cut us he provided comic relief and he was also really involved in make poverty history than if you remember that there's cool. Rather responds everyone was wearing in the not for a while. If you think where do I know his name from, it might be four weddings and a funeral love actually. A bunch of movies like that recently yesterday and they were talking about what they should do next fringe national development. And they've done. Something may not history, which is all about countries providing aid canceling country's debt and with comic relief, which is about what individuals can give, and actually they said look we're trying to make the world a better place. The one that we have it done is think about the role thanks should pay private finance companies stuff that makes our world turnaround. And that's where I made. My money matter was born at the same time. I really encourage you to let this happen maybe I'll tell on drop it in the show notes afterwards Richard through a Ted talk by a woman called Bronwyn King and she's brilliant. She looks a superwoman exactly as you imagine it turns up in the Ted talk and her power suit. Impeccable hair I think there is really something Cindy having well done. Have it makes people think you know we're talking about? Lots of hair and it's very curly. So I often think that people think know what I'm talking about. She's an oncologist. So she talks about being a young doctor helping treat people you have cancer and says Oh one day I went and met with my pension. Fund. And I had no idea what my pension for the past fifteen years had been invested and she finds out that her pensions invested in loads of stuff and that that could include things like call oil gas technology companies, and also tobacco I'm for her as someone who'd been spending her entire life caring cancer she found out that I think three of the top five international holdings in her pension moral big tobacco companies and relevant sit back and take it. She decided to start a campaign why she basically now flies around the world telling people that they shouldn't invest in. Tobacco as funds which I think is amazing. I think the key thing here in the key reason that Richard Overseas storyteller for four weddings and a funeral love actually is story. There is so profound, right? She lives alive certain way and has lived it for twenty years and then finds out all this time. She been accidentally investing in something that she didn't even realize that was contradicting everything she was doing and I think for us made my money matters. That's really the core of the campaign. It's not about saying you should invest in this. You shouldn't invest in that. It's about saying just as you will mentioning people going Vegan, because they care about the environment you might not by fast fashion anymore you might. Spend time reselling and buying back closed and charity shops, and you'll be using your keep cup. You have one hundred different metals draws but actually you don't know where your pension money. If you're lucky enough to have a pension is actually going what's the worst case scenario? Where's the worst? It could be the most people it's probably going into lots of companies that still extract fossil fuels and some of those companies are working to tackle climate change. So they're doing something why they say, yes, we're GONNA go net zero emissions so we won't abide by the Paris climate agreement, which means will stop taking carbon out the ground that some companies all they could be investing in. Tobacco most pension funds don't the loss of funds will be invested in things like arms and it's up to you to not only find out where your money's invested but also think about what could be invested in and that's more thrust of the campaign and saying, well, we know pension funds invested in all sorts of things that it should be in your power because it's your money to say where going wouldn't you rather your pension invested in local green infrastructure, affordable housing or renewable energy, and that's all stuff that could and should happen as part of people's portfolios but. Unless people ask for it. The change happen fast enough to make really big impact Patna. World. That's amazing. 'cause that's see here's the thing is I think what this really shows in the context of women especially is that there's all these statistics about women do X. Share of the housework and they go out to work blah blah. I'm not saying men don't work hard but women typically who are earning money and putting away a pension. If they have a family, they tend to also be a lot of caregiving going on in do they're taking care your parents or? Children women work really hard to make money. And I'm not saying men don't but I am saying that my opinion women often work more hard because they've got other responsibilities and. Why we say to women well, money is freedom and money is power. Money is a tool by which you can affect decisions and I think that make my money matter is a great way of making you understand that you have arsenal to make a difference and that is the money you earn your already earning it. Now, you use it to make a difference as in. This is a power you have exactly I think idea of equating money with power almost dirty because we're all think of succession, which is by the way. Great Show. It's power power is also very positive. You know. A way of illustrating how you can be a superhero through the money that you are saving up for the future and it's another way of encouraging you to understand the power that you have. Made money matter bills off the campaigning of a fantastic organization could share action led by another brilliant woman called Catherine Howarth, and again, huge amounts of resources on their websites. Catherine is an advisor to make my money matters. So this is totally aligned in in terms of the thinking the encouragement but on the Cher action websites some really excellent steps to start out finding out how to engage with your opinion fund. But then also highlighting the brilliant things that you can do with your pension funds, and this is where I want to bring in the environment agency a way we have a pension fund it's part of the local government pension scheme and over the is that the environment agency has been running but also building from some of the organizations it came from we now have forty thousand. People beneficiaries that cooled technically but we're looking after forty thousand people's hard earned savings for their retirement. Some of them are already retired some of the moved on into different roles. We currently have ten thousand people working at the forefront of the climate change agenda. And we know because we are so closely linked with pen. Of the forty thousand, how passionate they are that the money that is being saved for bad retirement, and again, this comes with privilege that would have a real idea of a retirement or money to put into it but many people do and this is for them yet also the all those people that think well, I had the money to make a difference. You know if you make a difference in the right way. You make a difference for those sisters who don't have the money. Is You're creating better outcomes in general. Do you know what I mean the fewer tobacco in arms companies or that are environmentally unfriendly company so I don't think it's ever wasted and I'm not saying it's enough to help those who are less privileged. Of course, we should always pull them up in every single with, but it's not just for you. When you take these steps, it's for a wider good again, going back to the signals that you are sending to the underlying companies that you're investing in that it's important to look after your staff and that men and women some of the sisters that we're talking about. You can send so many powerful signals and again for my time working in the investment world, it doesn't take many people sending that signal for you to understand that this is something that people care about and gives you if you all a a manager, the power see start raising those questions to show that it's not about financial performance. It's also incredibly important that your. Understanding the way people being treated what the product is actually doing, is it generating good or is it generating harm and starts moving everything in the right direction from my perspective as a mother used to money talks and shit walks. Because I think if women understand the power of the earnings already earning and start to have this shift in perspective with what their money's doing for them that I think a lot of companies a lot of high finance has to pay attention. Yes it's slow, but it's definitely something in the right direction I think the pace is picking up as well and with the K. hosting. Cop Twenty six, the climate discussions next year. The fact that Richard has launched this campaign really shows that there is momentum building and a lot of banks, a lot of investment companies, and now absolutely signaling that this is no longer about a little strand of work a Green Fund, the edge of what they're doing. They are now totally focused on what's called they environmental social and governance performance if companies and sending very very strong signals to the chief executives and the chairs of those companies that the investment movement. Ultimately the citizens saver wants to invest in a different world wants to get rid of the risks that are building up, but also wants to see the positive world as well. Country with investments in safe water renewables a whole range of different things i. think it's just a revelation to people that it's your money I. Think you think it's not your money. I, think you think what are you put it into a pension plan what they do with it is what they do with it, and then hopefully they give it back to you at the end with some more on it, but it's your money and someone's minding it. And in order to make more money out of it, they're saying, will you mind it? Can you make some more money and then give it back to us? Can you mind here and so it's your money you need to know where your money is. You can't say I gave it to a man he did something with it. You have to say it's my money. Excuse me where is it and where is it now and what are you doing with that and what's tell me about that company and why would you recommend that company and what's that companies are a feature now how feminist is this company? How Activists Company? How sustainable is this company? What this company's record in the world? Are they investing in places that you sweatshops? Are they doing stuff about renewable energies? All of that sort of stuff it's a bit like if you had a flat and he couldn't live in it or house and he couldn't live on it Houston, I'm going to rent it out, and then you found out people cooking crystal meth and selling it to kids. You wouldn't just go start my house at the moment is that you'd be like want that in my house like it's my house and that's why they call up my house. Even if you sublet of a rental, you'd be like, I. Don't really want the crystal Meth in the House I don't want you selling that children. That's not. Good about that. So you have to think of it like that. It's hard to because the house is tangible. It's got a door Scott Windows you can knock on the house money is a made up thing you kind of go where it is. It's somewhere I. think he think it's anyone's got your actual cash. It's all on computers sub that real is that tangible? Yes it's real and it's yours. You aren't. You gave it someone where is it? We have to be asking that question. Also, I think the thing with money is that we often think that it's powerful and useful when we're transacting with it, we don't realize how much power money has based on where you park it. And then it's just park, but it's still very powerful. I think the problem is that finance companies and pension providers bad talking to people because it's an intangible thing, it's not like you can look at the house if you look at your pension and we've had people so you should write your pension provider. You should speech employer we've had people who have written to there to provide a and said, really clearly is my pension invested in what am I talk holdings? What are you doing about the climate? Can you tell me and they get back? One of my favorites was printed out black and white sort of twenty page document entirely writing but then scanned and uploaded as images onto the mail and then emailed someone no person. With a normal life. Passengers. Go to pension on. It's a positive thing is going to sit there and read all this print and say, Oh, my pension invested in these fourteen funds they all have the same name. This is what this means and actually of our campaign is you need to the question one to employer does your employer no way you're pensions invested. We have so many great companies right now who were trying to be most sustainable but actually was appointed making sustainable shoes or sustainable bags if. The money they owe paying into joe employs pensions. Every moment isn't invested line with this sustainable goes on the same attention providers. Do you think? So the first place people can go is to their employer to their Easter Person. For the work pension thing and have a discussion, and then from there then move forward because I think companies do have a responsibility to their employees if they as whereas my pension day to give them an answer. That's reasonable. Very. reasonable. Question Women's are often so afraid of asking questions either they think they're stupid. They think they're going to be being a pain in the ASS. Let me tell you man. It is so rewarding to be a woman who's a pain in the ASS. because. You usually ask them questions and no one is asked and you get a good response I think one of the answers that is often given is going to invest sustainably if you are going to invest make your money matter. What impact will that have on the returns that you're going to make and? That can be very off putting. Your being told that you've got a choice between investing in something that you think is the right thing to do. And the performance. Now we'll. We'll that generate money the work that we have done over a decade and more at the Environment Agency pension funds by gradually switching the money that we looking off to on behalf of. The beneficiaries on behalf of current colleagues and former colleagues? Is Performing Ferry. Nicely thank you. It's delivering long-term returns. waltzed taking into account environmental sustainability. Climate change issues. And we've seen over recent periods that it's money invested in socially responsible funds that have done well throughout the very dramatic tubing, throwing an ups and downs stock markets over recent months. So this is a way that you can not only invest in the things that you want to invest in, but it will deliver strong returns as well. So what you're saying is if I give my money to Dr Evil, he's not going to give more money back to me when I'm a little old lady going Shit I've. Got, to save any money in my bank account, he's not going to be more money than if I give it to sustainable things and put feminism I. This is one time where I can put feminism I and I'm not going to personally Safa later if you're investing for the long term, then the returns come through there's always risk if you invest for a very short period of time but the so called sin stocks could outperform but this is long term investment strategies for long term returns these funds absolutely performing. Stocks. What the the ones that are like the doctor evil stocks there since talks. Is. Hottest, referred to is that how you name Cindy? WHENUA banking is this the origin now? Rest. Equities fixed income so I didn't deal with stocks just dealt with bonds. Blah Blah. Anything that you've just said sure you but very successful and your money. Has a sustainability strategy t and the more we invest in that as a society, the more valuable stock will be the more we prioritize able solutions. Sorry say sustainable solutions, I, apologize lists, but that's true. The more we invest in a sustainability, the more valuable it will be if we call it valuable if we decide this community, it is valuable and more valuable than just a quick return and then burn the world let it burn and. Who Can die richest odom again then it will be important. So your money if you have a pension, if you're lucky enough to have a pension, somebody's got your money. If you don't know who's minding it if you don't know what they're doing with it, you better find out then you can pressure them and go. Hey, I only want my money in these kinds of companies. Can you please show me workings and if you do that? You can make your money Amo-, sustainable more feminists commodity. It's working whether you're working or not like you could be your over here. You might be furloughed, but there is your penalties working. It's doing something. So unique to know who it's working for is it working for an evil genius? Is it working for somebody WHO's trying to make the world a better place and that's the question you need to be asking and you shift it because frankly it's yours. It's like your house your car that's why they call it your money. It's not just sort of nebulous floating around in a cloudy out there it's doing something go and find out if your money is currently working for dictator or an evil genius or even an evil, not very clever person that could be the case as well and try and shift it up. Can you tell us Hannah what Hashtag charities white is? Yeah so and I show charity. So white is a campaign. We started last year to tackle racism in the charity sector. Stall to delve because since advise for outs and training of his lease in advice train, lots of volunteers to serve their communities and they're doing great work right now. On the outs and training about dating with. Communities of color. And it basically said along the lines of people of color only really understand cash they spend a lot time with their families basically a list of Nado ten things not stereotypical. And We said well, actually this is racist these communities, different people and what it did do actually since advisor being quite get it sort of rectifying and moving forward that this highlight. A much. Greater. Charlotte and and we also lots of people of Color in vain people working in the sector we said. In your expensive races, why didn't you tell us what your experience work in the charity sector in like and some of the stuff we go back with really horrifying and I think the thing here is that we've talked about racism a lot recently as you have the black lives matter movement if talked about the disproportionate impact of covid on people who are Y. But actually because the charity center is seen as a sector where people do good where people have the best intentions and when people don't have very many resources, often the challenges things like racism sexism may even as it and as wept under the carpet because actually it doesn't really matter if you're racist sexist neighbor list if you're trying to do the right thing and actually our point is well does because you're only helping people in the right way if you take. into account and we've been campaigning for about a year. Now, we've had some real wins and it's been useful to have the campaign in the context of cove it because it's a small sort of am focus charities that had suffered the most and actually this story of conveyed were all suffering. But. It's the people who already have the least of being hit hardest and it's the organizers who are working with them and the organization supporting those people who have been hit hard still, and that's what we're walking on way campaigning and we're trying to raise. The part of all of this within the sector and obviously with our and organizations and say actually. We should be doing more to bring in questions of race will do campaigning when we do this kind of what because actually our intentions example in talk about the climate crisis and you talk about the impact it has. Where investing sustainably and we're thinking about where our money goes for AL futures. But actually, we're seeing the impact of climate crisis on cable who live in Africa Asia is already affecting them. It's already sinking Maldives for example, and these things that are really tied to questions of race and I think that's something we can't forget when we talk about any issue that we're doing right now. That's is so important every body search for Hashtag charge. So white and educate yourself about it. Especially, an accomplished to find a point on this. If you are white if you are black or brown and do not feel like you WanNa engage this at the moment because you are have a lot on your plate emotionally with bandwidth obviously keep on walking. But if you're white, you really have an obligation to look into this. Especially, if you're in the charter sector, you give to charities you engage with charities in any. Way which I'm sure all the from his listeners do is there anything that you came to say either Amer or Hannah that you did not get to say that you'd like to leave on the table I have one thing yes, and my thing is if you saw a convert to the world of sustainable pensions and think pensions Okel and that emit powerful all of which Detroit. We are running a campaign which is asking people to write their pension providers and tell them that this go net zero, which means that they should commit to really important climate targets, which will mean that we don't end up in some sort of awful climate dystopia and. To make more money matters dot UK forward slash net hyphen zero. You can write Joe provided that and also on our website you can have a learn more about the campaign and talk to me if you like your organization to think more about its pension great and how can we contact to you? You can email me Hannah at make my money matter Dakota UK and mentioned that's in the show notes because some people call me Hannah and some people have vehicle me. That's okay. So H. E. Double N. A. as. and. If you do right, just say that you heard it on the guilt that we know that the show had an impact and Ama- is there anything you say that you didn't get to say I really won't see emphasize the importance of a healthy. And healthy nature I think during the pandemic. Again, those of us who've had access to green spaces have really appreciated that those of us that have reheat cleaner air have really appreciated that. But to Hannah's point about racial inequality, we know that often it's the vulnerable communities, not just the fundable countries but also. Some communities that is suffering more than others. A now couldn't be about a time to invest in nature recovery. And a cleaner environment, and I'm not just talking about our pensions. I'm talking about how we as individuals signal in any way the importance of these things how we signal to politicians how we signaled to the companies. That buying goods from them the importance of getting this right right. Now, we're at the start of a decade where we all need to act on climate otherwise. We up. To lose this moment to get on track for a healthy. Planet. A healthy economy. And our own health as well. So really now is the moment to draw attention. To the importance of these issues. And if you don't have a pension, but your mom and dad's have pensions but you've got relatives, you've got pensions. If you think all bloody hell millennial I'm Jen said, and as if I've got a pension shut up. You may have family who have pensions and you can talk to them what a great thing to bring up at Christmas. Because things generally not tencent off at Christmas, bring it up. We go home into the donors. See Me Have Christmas. He could some other reasons to go home at the end of the year or before that, maybe we'll go into another lockdown and you'll be locked away with people. You don't like very much. Why don't you bring up how their pension is not sustainable enough and just go right for the jugular seriously though right people you may have a job in the arts where you just go lull I don't have a pension now and I don't see one happening in the next ever But. You might have a sister, a brother who has one of those jobs where you just get a pension gig or in fact, they might be one of those savers who are all over those kinds of things and investors. You have influence even if you don't have money, you can post about it you can share it. Don't forget anyone who makes their pension more sustainable is doing something more powerful than giving up flying more powerful in terms of confinement that even going for fully plant based Diet. So even spreading the word, you don't have to have a pension, but as a feminist actors and activist act, you can spread the word, you can share it. You can tell the people about with your actual mouth in real life put on your instagram. There's so many fun little things. There's a funnel video with Martin Freeman voicing a naked. It's a naked woman I think really go and check out what's on the store and share those things because listen doesn't matter if you have any money, the planet is yours. We've only got one and you cannot leave just to rich people with huge investments to decide how long this is going to keep turning with us on it. So if you think all God I'm not cocoons picked my fund manager sure as soon as I've just paid my. Back pay rent out of this stuff furloughed nightmare. That is twenty twenty then talked to others and share that information because it would be really nice. If the planet was still here in twenty fifty and one hundred years and five thousand years time in a habitable fashion for human beings. So there are always things you can do if you don't have money, but you might have time you might have influence and so don't forget the heft of that. Sindhu is there anything you'd like to plug I what I'd like to plug that I'm a huge fan of Deborah Second of all, I'd like to plug that. It's very gratifying to mean to be on this particular episode because when you're a woman who earns money that in itself. Is Notable like Deborah pointed out some decades ago our money wasn't our own. So, when you're a woman who's financially independent, that's notable. You feel immediately like you've done it that's it I did actually goes further than that. It's not just earning the money, but also a lot of POW in how you deploy that money when you park it, how you deployed and you buy a nice handbag. Lovely. But how you deploy it when it's just parked, I think this episode is it's very powerful for that insight and I think the third thing I want to plug is the fact that we always have to remember. All human beings. But especially as women that there's so many actions we can take that will have a ripple effect that will bring other people with us that we may not otherwise more directly be able to help, and of course, the most important thing I wanNA plus I have a podcast. It's called Child Labor podcast. It's called child labor and I hosted with Stoop Goldsmith and it's about the Labor of raising kids but also having been a kid having had parents and then you have kids this cycle and how are we all doing it? Who knows? So if you feel like to listen to that but. Yeah. That's about it. I think it's a lot of plugs man. Playing out doing a song as Katie Brooks Katie. Could you tell us a little bit about the psalm you're going to sing thank you so much for coming and joining us today. My visit. Thank you having me. Song, it's not about money. I. Requested bespoke pensions ballot. I tried everything I could. But I did Russell up something that is guilty. Feminist related is a surprise. The song. is about someone is a bit different and miss you around a difficult woman Salu. That goes with Cindy Hashtag be a pain in the ass yet, but it will not good pain in the US in this respect though but there's a little bit with surprise in the middle of it as you will see an okay and Katie where can we hear your music? You can hear music on spotify I'm Katie with an E. Y. and Brooks without any and I wanted to ground. That's where I have most. If I'm hanging out, online starts just at Katie Brooks on the come say hi, but musical unspoilt firing and all that jazz. Okay. Katie Bronx take it away. Accident. Off Concentrate. Sorry. ooh. Sir. Stay WHO I. M-. More. Jesse. Also. ooh. Strength. Not. Trying. To men. I. So many times just feeling. Sorry for myself I used to cry. ooh. Sir. So. You've. Dropping. In. Mindy. she. Do. Things. To. Her. That was a thing. Doing that. For so long. Have we listened to the guilty feminist with. Guests goes into being special guests, Emma, Howard Boyd and Hannah Shaw Music from. The guilty distinction was composed by Collagen Produce Funding Sheldon, which was Thomas Alinsky for the spontaneity shop. Thanks to Rachel Crossman. Gina DC. I want everyone who made us upset happened as well as all of you for listening for more information about this and other upset was guilty. And how can now pensions help us do that? I've just dropped that in there in case almost put that at the top because such good thesis. So that's a pickup from me because he might put that at the top, and then you can yeah I just wanted to say it. So it's easy for him. I didn't want you to go want after. Way Talking. About. So that was a pickup for me the end of the Bible and you say, who is Jesus? Huge. Thank you to all of our mazing patrons, sponsoring us at the smash the Patriarchy level or above junk McCoy's Sarah Brown and Sarah Boom.

Environment Agency Emma Howard Debra India investment banker Tom Slit Mister Mom Jessica Regan Cindy Glorious UK America Thomas Alinsky twitter Denmark football Hannah Shaw Michael Keaton
211. Black Women and Girls Matter with Athena Kugblenu, Leyla Hussein, Stephanie Pearson and Adenike Adesanya

The Guilty Feminist

1:48:51 hr | 4 months ago

211. Black Women and Girls Matter with Athena Kugblenu, Leyla Hussein, Stephanie Pearson and Adenike Adesanya

"This episode of the guilty feminist is brought to you by the satirical novel. Fleishman is in trouble by taffy predessor, ACHNA available now in paperback. I'm a feminist Bart today for the first time. I went into a dance studio in a socially distance way from my dance. Instructor, Melissa Bravo, so for those don't know. My lockdown project was dance lessons. Because I wanted to make meaning of the time and I also wanted to make a faster and I thought you know what dirty dancing montage makes the time go really fast. Just go well. They've done a bit of this and a bit of this and a bit of this and then three months passed. So I thought I would learn to dance for surveys INS, and so I hired a dance Tacoma. Pravo who's very close to me, we'd zoom together for four months now Danzig every single day. And today for the first time we went into a studio, as was legally allowed, stood far from each other, and we just staring at each other, because we've seen more of each other in lockdown, any other human being, but not in the flesh, and already like met her once before this all happened, so we were just staring at each other for ages going. It's really you. It's really it's like. And it was we were seeing a video game avatar come to live, and then she looked and she went. On my God. This room is so big. And I'm used to seeing you on the little screen. She said this room is so big unique, really small in here and I thought Oh my God. This room is making me look thin amazing. Attorney. was. As a feminist! To care about it. I've done a lot of myself to not have body image, but in that moment. I need to stand rooms on Stanton Cathedral. Wall by the because I'm also told and broad and everything and I I have those occasional heights, height breaths issues, and I just went I look amazing in this room. At the room now is that it's. Like My. Resume so I'm obviously just received also in a massive thrown in our look tiny 'cause I'm not petite woman and I was raised at a patriarchate and about you, and so I've been led to believe Titas better, and although every trains myself to a large extent every now and again I'm triggered insults our combat off, but compliments I go. Oh hold on my being lowered in my being loaded. So I'm a feminist spot. Even though have committed to not wearing makeup on zooms agreed, feminists got quite large audience and I didn't know if he was going to put out some. Other foot costs. This podcast. Let me let me put this on will. We will take a picture there in general. I was a bit concerned. That I was. GonNa say what you start that I'm not wearing. Makeup presumes I was like a theme. You are wearing fabrics. They cut right now. What are you talking about? Your Lloyd, the listeners? Myself You, make up! Tonight that I've actually this. War is chat scholar all up down? I saved me so much money. My seepage points cards dead. I'm not buying any makeup and it's quite liberating has got bit solid, so because see the comes, but my mate Moscow even, and it was like ten of pain ridiculous. Seem is that you sort of can't really see details so I mean I'm just saying I. have any makeup on I've just got these big glasses which I think of his face Armagh, and then he can't see whether I'm wearing Ireland or not I think and I've just gone for a beach natural hair. Luke, by which I mean I washed my head two days ago left, it didn't blow dry. It I just sort of hope to the best it really. It looks like I've just got out of bed fair. I'm a feminist, but my friend spilled red wine on his new white trainers and was trying to clean them himself and I said No. That's a job for a mum. Now to be fair to me. A mom had offered nor his mom, but a mom immediately said I'll do that. And I'm sorry I. Myself Am not a mom. I trust mums more than other people for some things. They just know they've got experience. Athena. You're now among by also the. and. Baby wipes on. You didn't know. When I met Sir. To, given all this information and some of his best medium about union trainers and So. But yeah that Oh teenage boys, teenage boys know trainers cleaned. Now. Very very that trainers and stuff it's the fashion. Get a sixteen year old kid and make sure they're wearing in. China's themselves if they office on accident, appleby twelve years old. If kids. Are they know. They know these I believe the chemistry science now. Do just keep trying to clean and I. Just question something here I just like to fact. Check in call news where I see it. If a sixteen year old has twelve year old trainers. Since he was. This! I'm just. Going to call it now notwithstanding interrogation, but I would say really is. Sometimes what people do is they wear baby trainers around their neck as jewelry and I was actually told. that. And I forgot to mention that because I was trying to be concise, would make sense what wine on them if they're net now that's. Taking you, we'll see what they want. Yeah, related today's It's kind of later on the feminists. I Cook it in this hassle. Like of it. At it's kind of like to the point where apart no lost emissions like are into the fridge and quite like the power. Lake, it's like Oh. Four say no, but really cozy cat is. He fought the fridge inner. United calls we each week. Ill gifts like food, so although Nubia she allowed tweet. This ought to think feeding what you like. Why think now missing? I'M GONNA. Enforce this even though they really care I like Riley. Like the power. On that, isn't it because all not on the face of it? The woman in an opposite sex relationship during cooking doesn't sound feminist, but the way you've managed to put it off. Way Your food place. It sounds like. And I want to say all cops are bad cops Athena, but I'm going to have to pull out again on this occasion. That's not. I'm bad. That's the. Way It is flat from. You! Need. A reason also no evidence despite that which is Chris from but yeah, I think that is hard. It's really hard trying to challenge gender roles. You were really could kirk I caught the light I've got magic fingers melanoma spices, so it's it's difficult and. He did thing though he that he doesn't mountains. Wait let the cut the grass because he's very into his laws as anyone else garden and you. Wouldn't it be more I? ACT, said I'm not really upset by it fine. You all very weird one because you're falling into very binary stereotypes, but somehow you have all the power is very paid. If you WANNA control room in how skies is the kitchen I'm a feminist, but when our conservative British government announced a one point, six billion pound bailout for the also last night. I knew they had kept. US waiting, saying nothing pretending they were going to give us nothing, and all avenues closed down so when they did give something we'd be there typically grateful and feel nice feelings towards them, and honestly it worked I. Do feel pathetic delightful to feel nice relics, today. Tomorrow I will go back. Speak Angry and cynical, and I will also say oh. It's not enough and all, but were France gave six billion euros to the arts blah blah, Blah but today metric worked because they would just say nothing at all. Plan will open the venues one day. It'll be fine sure we will not put. This. I mean it's. It's not come syndrome facial I. Don't feel proud to have had a moment's pleasanton. Warm thinking towards the government I don't feel proud of it. That's why I'm saying. It's a trick and we I for evidence so. Excited one point six billion. There wasn't like to quit or something we don't. Do you know what because primarily I'm a stand up or like? A think was See a lot of stand up. He pulled. From America's to venues to comedians benefit. Stand up of course very weird space in cultural, Lance. Mainly because is a very blurred line between amateur professional stand newspray bloodline between. I'll just here. You don't have to stop tweet. The if there's anyone that could never be accused of Amaterasu, dipper, they worry about that. That does not does not stick. You. Data stoplight, stop and go. Yeah I know what you mean, but but art centers in venues where it's Comedians can tour, not down is everything. Is Everything the rims? Will Survive. They'll come back. And also were allowed in style I mean. That was the first thing to be allowed to open yet, but. I think if the art centers in the touring thing doesn't have we, it's. Important for communities I, think the Austin is a reason why we spend so much money on them. Because not everyone can come down to London to wash your show. I wasn't media. Wear the sensor immunity before stand up because my number, I'm privileged. One to go into these faces and see light productions, and how they tool and stuff mandate is so vital, so if we get the preservation of those centers is something that is necessary, because it's necessary I went praised the government's like in healthcare, so let's pose airy. Good see you can load into their web guided. Looted of you last one Athena yeah last one. You said I wear makeup from zooms. That's a lie. natural nose to take a shine to do, the I and people go into the great I. Think you. We don't wear makeup. Oh all this time. You've been saying I'm not sure I'll, but reading been doing up in Hashtag on that show. This is. This is. The reason why say this now is because I'm not sleeping at night. Sleeping fine. A! Believe. From a variety of bedrooms and kitchens via zoo, the spontaneity shop presents the guilty feminist with me. Deborah Frost White ESCO host Athena. And Very special guests Leyla Hussein Stephanie Pierson at indicate out of Sonya talking about. Women and girls. This is the guilty feminists. The podcast which we explore on noble goals, twenty-first-century feminist snap horsey securities which undermine them under Francis Point. My co-pilot, today is a blend you when we're talking about black women and girls matter. So, firstly Athena Cabrini. How the Hell Are you? You know what I'm fine of struggle with that question because every day is pretty much the same. I'm trying to find a different answer like yeah I'm good. I'm fine, okay? I'm acquainted with the Environment I. HAVE WORDS OF SP? Down with a small child, yes? Yes, I! Am Yeah, toddler stor! Yeah, I still use saying today is looked over, and am I just sitting inside playing great. Yeah, because I used to play China as a kid and I stopped, and we've got one on meeting. My partner you came with an electric keyboard and. It sounds like you've set of for him. Magazine Yeah stickers came into people. This is related value for money really behind. You comes with a cable. Sakib boat it's. Har-. It's pretty old, but it's nice, and it does the it's. That time. Come with good quality. Man is probably the best question Oh. A more I spend more time with the keyboard from. For From one. Time just going to introduce our posse for today we'll be here for all of these people later. They're all free to chip in in the meantime, so Hallo Leyla made high. On My. Frequent guest on the guilty feminist podcast and we say tonight into happy back. Yeah, it's got to be back, but we have to first time guests which were very excited about. Stephanie Pearson. Hello I DAVE! Hi. I've only just very recently. Met You through the black? Lives, matter UK instagram account. Where you were telling me everything that was going on. This is how I was finding out about Macho Macho attended. So I'm delighted to meet you. Thank you for everything you're doing. Let you into it. And also at any CATA- Sonya ads. From fine anti, I know year because you are. An activist and model and your instagram account is. CHEF KISS incredible. Thank you and you're also doing a lot for black lives matter yes. Yeah. It's very exciting, so we can't exciting from you and boomy Thomas. We haven't seen usage the royal but whole. How are you I'm good I'm alive and I'm thankful. Alive and thankful, that's a wonderful way just very quickly. You're going to play the music for US tonight. You're still in the UK last time. The listeners heard from you. You were in a situation as part of the wind scandal you which they were trying to deport you. You were born in, Glasgow. Can. You just give the listeners an update on how everything's going? Yes, so post our last conversation. We had the tribunal on the sixteenth of October. and. The judge ruled in my favor on the twenty third. October in one would have thought that which naturally organically translate into the issue being resolved. We have to litigate out with the him office because they initially is. You'd a mission for the period of fatty mounts. On. We about not the decision that was appealed was indefinite. Leave to remain. Until his back, and forth with them, and then we had to litigate through judicial review. On it was only on the thirty first of March this year that they office said they were going to settle. Out of court and reviews decision as step, it's been still a bureaucratic exercise and I mean the threat of deportation removal has been. Neutralized however. The recognition two. Of My status is. In Question Yeah, A. I'm so sorry to hear that but I'm so glad you're still with us. representing Britain in the way that you do extraordinarily as a jazz musician and just you shouldn't have. To remind you should have a passport. You born in Glasgow for God's sake. This we know this and this is the thing I think that with what's happening with A. Resurgence of the civil rights movement and looking at different representations, institutionalized racism and policies that reinforce this imbalance that it's really really pivotal time to be looking at reform as far as laws consigned parliamentary level, what the global truly represent what diversity and what is in practice And how do we work together to reach a I'd say Hola More Realistic Progressive State of being in which the civil rights and human rights of citizens of the Commonwealth are preserved in this contemporary condensation. Great Britain. Wonderful what we can't wait. We have a new album out, and we cannot wait to yet a song or two from a tonight. So now it's time for scenic blending on so thrilled to see face to face like this. I mean I'm sorry went in the same room. Same, yeah, it's very in your life, but this is no K. alternative I think we're making do the best we can do we are. We are I'd love to have you at my house, but we have a global pandemic going on in Camden town so. Hustle. We've my mom's house so I'd have to turn it out out of York with lobster. YEP, go! Mom is my Babu. You've already. Your mom. Or could've what's that me and said I'm just about to mom. I. I was waiting for you I was waiting for. What's up might be like depres online. She's. Onto House about unrequited bubbling. mcquay bubbling. What does have to move on and wonder what could have been? What could have been well? Listen next time we lockdown. We'll be ready for each other and I say that only because I wouldn't have said that last week I didn't want to be pessimistic, but then I saw Soho after British people were allowed to have a pint again. and. It looks like New Year's Eve and Kana Bali and the first day sales all it was, it was pretty mad. No, no not many masks lots of hugging lots of I love. US Luthuli persuades. Yeah, it was to be expected. I think to be fair. Most people probably okay with their drinking sessions, but those pictures were when. The protest where shows distant scene where lots of Mars most of awareness the? Sire respect for people and I think the science is proved that they were because they are thankfully there have been any spike so anything that we can know in this assistance that coincide with those coverings. Interest of fingers crossed. Nothing would have happened, and we'll get the same as of the GonNa on our sessions by the. And there'll be a few people who cheat on their bubbles offering of. The new. Controversy people waking up in their own bubble, and so on so forth so we're after were. Absolutely nothing like the black lives matter March that. I went on. It was actually the most empowered. Purchase because normally like the beginning of the women's marches, it was like you on the northern line at Russia and he'd just ended move and actually it didn't feel very empowered because you took us an hour to take off. And in that time you would just been standing and starting standing and sending not that I'm complaining about the conditions of the protest I am obviously, but I thought main, too, but the thing about the black lives matter protesters because we. We had socially distance. It felt empowered, but everyone was wearing a mosque and everyone was walking same direction. Everyone was very respectful about space. I'm sure that wasn't always team. Maters I think. We need to be very that, but it wasn't. No one was breaking the spirit of that. You have to be honest not to get boring about this, but the science of crowd movement is actually distance mates. Crowds move big if you're trying to get off a plane. A nightmare because we're just ravenous and tries to get. It's like we're will go from. We're going to see championship. Impossible Control May Jeb Chilean. Again the luggage rack what she rushed you the toilet around the corner, very odd behavior that this. If we can keep it, said lockdown behaviors. We need to keep this whole since we move quicker, you know it's it's nice. It's like all wolves. State Reeve congestion happens, and then no one could get anywhere. Sign up if I went on route one on one show where you put things in the room that you you don't WanNa. See them again. Mind would be the way people crowd around a baggage carousel at airport. If we all stand back behind the yellow line which is painted on raisin. We can also coming. They come so slowly when you see your back. When you step forward. I can't see my bag at all because you're so crowded around it and there's an Chanson getting. It but I. I just can't. I do sometimes make an announcement off. Because we can all see up acts coming a get vince. If you get busy movies as announcements, and no one will question you like I, but just to get into the mindset of a baggage carousel crowd. I love luggage like he's my thing, so I like to spy on other people's luggage some ice. As. Our kind of food that. Open and say now. Well. You break into the good ones. Yeah you're right I'm the chief wants? Contained things you want to make anyway, so nothing's going on there for me. And the F. was the worst place stuff like it starts very highly secured environment into this kind of stuff by the way able to spend is. So easy to still someone else's is. Exposed you could just take off with authority and they should. They should happen more often than you think about the fact that like people. Are! Almost, as soon as I said that I think that might be my white privilege talking saying. It's. It's not was saying the fact that doesn't happen. That often means people are essentially good. They would survive you one other note. Some people are trump. Lows luggage but. People generally you can trust for insane situations you know. I should also. If you've just gotTa for long flight, you count, we asked. Carry anyone else's fucking case, even want. You. Five gave it keep it all. This was my favorite headline F. C. I. East, I think in some ways Britain leased to be seen as a sort of slightly intellectual country judo swimming those sorts of clever clogs Ian Ostrich does. This is a genuine baby. See US headline from this weekend. It says I'll shut down their corona virus morning update as police warned, drunks cannot distance. Story. In fact a Catholic? was trying to. Think about. Sheets. Online. Right. We! Should Tampa tell each other that we love each other? Up So. We Stumble on somebody. Spin in your friendship. is a huge exchange of fluid whilst you drum. Abou, it says other people's Pints on God. Just, you picked the wrong. Side now. When I think about my. Much these days. I used to drink a lot and I think. Oh, yeah, APPs Petrie dish, dislike anything that can be spread through air or liquid, or whatever with the clothes, on is getting spread and got as community. Colleges often become a move. What if drunkenness is? It's weird that they put the pops before school. Says late. Show like my. God, it's so. It's an extraordinarily that we feel like. We can't educate children safe environment, but we can go out and we can do all. SMIRNOFF, ICES and. this. Kid that pub as well. Over the. Perfect simply yeah. They made out was lost. You and our duty like judy to get the economy going again and it's coming. Up goto POPs a horrible whatever. POPs to open. Have you been in a pub recently? We see neck bits. Was All. About look down that one knows. The charts clean these places because Lord and clean my life. WHITE DOWN! Tonight the comedown. They wiped out a table. I've seen that I've not seen evacue of not seen shaken back. These things happen. So. Trey hopefully, they've steve plead the carpets hopefully nothing. Keep it in a sanitize condition. Still Smell of smoke and there's been a smoking about in this country for. Decades. Your. Legacy smug and resume where they pump in. The world will impact a woman's. Even they pumped in smells exhibits. You can smell one air would be like. The light back in two thousand and five. This is what the pub- smelt. Crazy Yes became things you could catch close on ice or an article about people anonymously confessing that in the real heart of lockdown. I mean it's still legal to have sex with someone WHO's not in your house. Yes. That was me. I'm set about rural. Your screen blood bit and I wasn't sure that it was you said it. Was the. Yes, SIR, no! He was like the real heart of the lockdown. People were known obviously confessing for this article. In one of the broad shakes about sex during lockdown. How they're just gone. I can't handle anymore. I'm going to go off and check somebody and they got onto that shot two hundred. This guy taught story, and he said when I got to house. We washed our hands for ages. LISTERINE! Soon. To. You're talking about open our hearts terribly it. Maybe they did it. Put that Thompson each others mouth. Penetration if your sister has. Is it I mean it's spots. If you just say very clean homes both had lost song, and you just penetrated and tried to keep a distance reverse cowgirl. To not. I'm. Like My. Sex invoked and the hands. Touch in you know. Up bubbled up. Good good to that matter. What at least you're not gonNA CATCH ANYTHING ON YOUR HANDS Get cold sores on your hands, not these guys because they wash them everything else. and. Personally I think that they should wash anyway, regardless covert. Yeah I think this. Is. He! Doesn't kill the Muka. If you put starting them washing your hands for two happy birthday south. Gain. Maybe. Spine See. Absurd. yeah, that's a good idea second. Wash your hands to to make robotic. This episode is brought to you by Fleischmann is in trouble by topper ACHNA. It's a satirical novel full of guilty feminist themes about marriage, divorce and modern love. She's one of the most exciting voices currently in American fiction. The book was Sunday Times and The New York Times bestseller. Stop Right now. It was also long listed for the women's prize at a national book award out good friend Alderson called it the most astonishingly brilliant Trojan. Trojan horse of novel and marrying key said it was wildly entertaining and moving, and she absolutely loved my book, so it's hard to see why you wouldn't get a copy right now is out in paperback, and it can be purchased Worcester Nhs oil local independent bookshop. Grab a copy because they're sponsoring firmness to be able to send a love right back I now I'm starting the book this week and now back to the cost. Please, welcome to the MIC Athena Qabala new. Oh This is what I missed that'd be just like. We WanNA see. Thank you guys WanNa talk about something that. I've been speaking and actually for the past weeks obviously. I'm contractually obliged to talk about. But I want to talk about is why March. In, March. Four or five years ago, I didn't marshes time round. Love because activists in very bad activists. Will I do is get money struggled to give time. They believe in equality in the regime racism empty races of all these things off things passionate about happy for a long time. I've always struggled with with the term. Applies matter I feel like I WANNA pay not London costs money against town. Nichols toll pound return for me I'm GonNa Sierra chief station. Hailed up. Money gets town. No, why snacks you know by water, Hall of Science about my life night, marriage from the conceived. That's get that basic. I'll take myself out of the conversation conversation with themselves Laverton Indian mother when she gave birth to me with opted look him, it also doesn't. Want to because it doesn't matter like. Just. How is identified me gardens? What is blackflies not to me so confident in which Batman because everyone's black. Done in place stop. Compensation blackflies! Meyer is an important thing to say because had to that basic strating say who the so obvious I wouldn't leave my house to say eight mayonnaise sandwiches are disgusting because we all know it, it's quite clear to me that egg. May should go together I mean. This? This is a write. In it in the sauce. If also your egg should review, is discussing going to put that on the owner on a down the street saying that he is via skies. If you're in a continue, falls in the morning like s no. I wouldn't want on the street and say Mule King Loss. You Psychopath live your life. There come naming your weird. How do you know you're getting the right amount of milk in your tease the right color? If you're not familiar Kim Kinloss so when? I only reason why I bet much. Because as a meeting to me that I support people who are. Not Because I'm grateful for for I think we should have the right to opt out of of certain things that. Align themselves affect your politics. My politics is always been black person I'm an African person and you know if somebody needs convincing of those basic things that photo of energy tools of things and I'm so grateful people now willing to look people in the eye and say five away. Asking people have the right to be alive. Look, that's why we're so tired. Could you imagine government? When I was a kid? My Dad tried to get me to work out how much I would make. If I bought something for ten P., and I sold it for twelve is very vivid barrier have. The frustration that he had when I couldn't give him an answer, he was like if you buy it for ten. Twelve P. how much money have you made those? Could Magin. How angry he must been at style. You Call that she's made to pets. I wonder I'm broke now author or anything and that's it's like trying to get people to realize understand something that's basic, so that's why physically put my body in that space because of that message however deal with. Hashtag the I would like to. Align myself with is definitely a Hashtag. The I I would go out and pay my twelve pounds. Traveling of depression by must spaghetti, you know. Outside the trump because we've got the protest, but we will places we've registered to strange process, and that is Hashtag of EP, a m white people matt now. Allow people be like Oh. It's if it marched but I'M GONNA. Say All for the Matt I think everybody is mad. Attila the Hun was not white, and he was mad with we agree on that Egyptians when or why and they was brothers and sisters, and how each very mad. Gang Foreign China Chinese not White Madman by. Why do you think I wish if he was to add up all the madness? Nate gets old like x amount of maddening people next mount of. Chinese people and then the amount of Matt Wiping will just be like twelve. As business being taken a late development knowledge the madness. Now I'm seeing videos of. Police officers harassing people for the tiniest. We'd of looking for driving Nice cars. I remember a school. He's the plagiarism more than more on occasion. knowledge, our just really good stuff. Such stuff I mean was writing. You. I'm old now. I'm at right over senior. And there's also. Evidence we can give so Hashtag why people I'd much for that, because that's the real and like wow, change something. In the way viewed Latin. Term after phobia, so this is before there was something not just spots of reaction. People who are black. That is like we use. We must control you. We must suppress you missed. 'cause it's a bit controversial on the back of that side I would put. Egg May sound as a bad reason, and it's been not so. I'm not completely ignorant examined just like. Sign here too that you might like better, so that's. Why I? Physician on reading support the 'cause I agree with that. I think it's working I think more people who aren't black or support plasma than ever before I saw the coastal statue get knocked down, and it was a white people. You know we didn't K- that's why one I will not have all energy to regroup at. Do our own thing and. Create a work and to study and to joint. On what people want to dismantle stuff that they've created an economic together would just be like the human family was supposed to be split the load. So life just working and I like it, 'cause it's motivating. People Call March for it I know. It means me to ask you for the right to exist. You called me to have the power. No one does give you that power that is investing must open supremacy. Why people are mad. I know saying. I just want to. Thank you very much. I saying I think it's every individual person's right to say either I want to be in the middle of this or I want to consider my because I shouldn't have to be arguing. They said you know somebody might coasts. Black female friends have said of all the many ways in being a black woman, as well as a black person has a how how painful and a exhausting the most recent period has been and everybody's. Everybody's got a handle it in our way, and that's a completely valid response and I think we've it's really easy to forget that I'm glad you said it. It's really easy to think Oh. People are doing this all that people feel this all that people should be doing this and I think it's a really important point, my piece to camera, which is going to be short for obvious reasons before we bring our guests on. was really about I feel like something opened up in me and shifted to my view slightly when I saw amy. Cooper in the park in Central Park in new. York, city, accusing Christian Kepa on the phone making it sound like he was attacking her, when clearly he was just another woke of saying all their birds here. Do you mind putting your dog on a leash and? The revelation I had very early on which I haven't seen in the press anywhere was. his name was Christian Hunter was Amy Coupo- now will though neither of them knew that at the time deep down somewhere the reason that she felt able to do what she was doing was the same reason. They have same surname. Cuba, not an African surname. And so something about those. intergenerational traumatic power structures made her feel entitled to that. And the thing that I that I realize I've already written about in my book in. A specific written about scenarios like this in the book which came out twenty eighteen in the goes famous book, but something extra came to me in the analysis of this and I I thought Oh my God. White women especially. Even more than white men, because of perceived frigidity invulnerability, and because the power, of US making ourselves small or looking vulnerable, crying the power of our tears the. Just projected upon us, all of the ship is projected upon us all all of us like the what's projected on black people, what's rejection or black women or black man or a white woman? But I? I happy saying for longtime that white women at the least criminalized. Most protected people in the world I'm not certainly not the only person to set that, but I have been saying longtime as a white woman, because not something I hear what women say much, and just when I saw Christian and Amy Cooper I. Just thought I might God every single white woman. Because of this added layer of Oh, someone might hurt me. That is projected upon us. We're all walking around with a loaded gun on our person all the time that we cannot put down. We have a power specifically over black men and women. We have a loaded gun on our person. and. We can't leave it at home. Because it comes with what is projected upon us. And either we know we have it. And we purposefully use it. All? We very are very careful never to use it. All we've accidentally used to. The past, felt its power and gone. Oh, I get it. I must never use this because any use of it is misuse of it. And I think this is worse. We don't know we haven't. At somewhat women will deny that they have it or they just. Thought about needed to think about it. If you're privileged, you don't think about those things. If you could just walk into any space, it's very easy. Doors automatically open for you like those sort of sliding doors at you standard, if those open for you, it's really easy so not even to notice that they open. So there are some white women who do not know. They're carrying it. And if you don't know, you're carrying it. And other white women don't wait you and demonstrate later. You are carrying this loaded gun. You're the most dangerous person of all. Because you might find that you have it in an emotional moment. and. Amy Cooper family herself in an emotional moment in that park i. don't know her history of. She's used four. I mean it seems so. It unloaded what she was doing that I suspect very heavily that she did know, but certainly lots of white women don't know, and then they use it in an irrational moment remote with feel attacked and they think oh. My God I've been accused of not following the rules. I'm suddenly feeling very defensive and they find. They have a loaded gun on their person, and they use it so I. Still I'm really need to know more about this. And I have a platform I need to educate other white women about this and make them take that responsibility seriously and one of the things I did is. I started listening to a new podcast called. We're having a moment. By Barrington Day Thurston, and if you're not listen to it, and especially, if you're white and be I recommend anybody, it's like vitamins your brain and it's a tonic for the soul, and it's specifically about the black lives matter movement, and how it's come out of this period of lockdown and. There's an episode called no right way to protest. It's such a very very very interesting lots of interesting interviews, but one thing that he said in the first episode I listened to was about Amy Copa and he said. that. She said in her apology and he said to be her. She apologize, but in her apology, she said I've always seen the police a protector. And I hadn't sort of caught. Realize that the police don't protect everybody. He said, but what she didn't say was there was no need for her to be protected. She just felt caught out ended up at a status battle about I. DON'T WANNA. Put my dog on a lead. And she said he's ultimately she didn't WanNa be told by a black man to a dog on a late because she felt superior. And, so she used this power, and he said an a white person needs to sit down with her and say. When did you realize you had this power? One was the first time you've used. This Powell's this the first time of their pre previous periods. How have used this power? How would you make sure you don't use this power again? And those with I? Think the words. I was looking for in the ideas that I had been sifting through myself. And I suddenly thought. Okay I get it. The way that I feel about men. When the intersection of power that we're talking about is gender. The Not all, but almost all men have better upper body strength in me so in any kind of physical altercation with the man I'm probably GonNa. Come off worse and a could be the whoops. The worst possible things that can happen to somebody could happen to me if I'm wrong situation with a man so I'm you know how you're on that high alert? If you're walking home alone, or if you suddenly with taxi driver, and it goes a bit dodgy or something you know when you feel your left in a room at a party with someone, and you get the bad feeling, and all women notice feeling that is because ultimately men have superior body strength, so we always need to be anything from a bit alert to escape if we're in those situations. And I just thought I'd get it in a way. That I haven't been able to articulate before. That's what white people have constant upper body strength, but at structural upper body strength, we have structure, constant structure, upper body, strength, and so like a man has to be much more careful with the woman not to. Like if amount has around screams at a woman. It's different from a woman screaming at a man because of the potential follow through because of the power structures are on his side because he could push her over, and it can really hurt her and white. People have to be the same because you're carrying this upper body strength that you. If you're aware of it, you have to become aware of it. It's so so so important. Important to become aware of that upper body, strength and something that was on your twitter that I thought one reason I. Asked you to do this is that you said I'm not calling a white supremacy anymore? Because there's nothing supreme about it, I'm calling it white depravity and I was like Oh. My God and that was really hard to read, but I was like. You're not wrong. That's I mean that's why we're. I think one of the reasons why I'm tired is because I think we intimately know the history of anti-racism when you know about the critical tests on an African American women about Congo Kenya about South Africa you know about. The things that happened here when you know about. Intimately, and then people are starting to realize it's weird. It's almost influence language. Move that no one understands. Some evidence fluid wants to talk to you, and it's the always quiet for ages, and now you will know that angry, so, but yeah, I mean I think we haven't I don't think we've really come to terms and not just wiping we black people come to terms with how we don't use the word Holocaust, but it is on the coast Africans whatever the world's. Data the extent of it, and we don't understand globalization of by South America. When more Africans were there than anywhere? outguessed day, Our lady who sane who is a psychotherapist and anti FGM campaigner, who regular distance of the guilty feminist will know, co-founded the a project. Which is Europe's. Counseling Service for survivors of female genital mutilation, and you have supported listeners. You supported the dollar project, a number of times most memorably. The Times that we did our Jane Austen Tana's a second guest is Stephanie Pearson. Who was a writer, poet and educator, and who is the director of the Black Education Project and I found through the black. Lives Matter UK instagram count. Our third guest is at a Nikkei at a Sonya. She is an activist for causes such as extinction, rebellion, and black lives matter as well as working as a frontline Keira and model. Please welcome Leyla Stephanie A. So Stephanie Day. Could you start to solve with telling US ABOUT BLACK LIVES? Matter you K- as to women who are at the center of fant. Wear at the point now where everyone's focusing on their projects. You're listening. With the price test, but we're actually. The changes beyond the protests in. Once stops walking down the street. We've already nicest is not trained in as much as it was a few. We guy at the march. His not as many people that are attended interest seems to be. Buying down people not last last week, but now something else is happening I. It's like actually nine. We need to think about solutions, so think of us the involved. I haven't been to protests in central London for the last few weeks because I have spent the weekends working on my laptop. Actually, what can the changes beyond the movement really thinking about? The things happen off to his own go in changes as well myself. My partner book a big speak. And we live near quite busy talking Hackney and sometimes we work for the pocket, just talk, because the people that are sitting in the Pob of the people act today when we date to the march, the people that they revolved. They understand Weinblatt laugh. States map the people sitting in the park Saturday, but he dined side mind taking US speak. And walk away. With reaching people that actually we wouldn't reach. The price has because they're not that I'm. Not Quite lawfully interesting conversations just. By tolkien see some people will live up. Some people stay on their mouths Azriel, what they do empathy listening to what we're saying. That is the point that we want everyone to be listed and understand what it is. Yeah. You coming into. The mid to take a break because as you know, I'm I'm a front nine canvasser. TO SPLIT IN That sowo and also activism work, but because I've been in a year, plus now it's it's. Active to take time out to to. Start because you don't WANNA burn burn. Then you go motivation in energy constraints and do what you're doing so pulling away from. Being around. Everyone like in social place and working on projects to try to push this movement because I'm on social media, people think it's a trend when it's not a lifestyle, so we need to continue fight for what's right, and even if you're not, someone likes to go on his feet to protest, you can also just do other stuff, so it's just about what we can do to help our community as one and not like work against each other. So, what can we do? How can we help? So if we are the kind of people who've gone protests, we should be going out and supporting them now and not just at the beginning, but we should go back out onto the street, if with someone that, for whatever reason responsibilities or sheltering all access or Agra phobia any of those things. If we're not protest people, what can we do to help I mean you can make donations to like really good. Charity stands for Latin. Is Martin Luther and We all have and there's a big crisis in Yemen. where she the whole country starving to death, and that's something that's been highlighted hopefully onto the media buys not being pushed as well oh you can. Contact your local MP regarding situation and even. Content slide you may know area all talk on social media connect with people that are also interested into nine more about the black last macho black history himself. The May I've grown up in a guy as household and hey, why are we not you'll? Money is your money. You know you can't your money. Chests parsimony organization. Donate you don't do this money? What Hard Fred another love? People have that mentality on each true of the on mother myself said my money I. Make a what called Fred United so I understand the people at the plant concert night. Akon money had Put money that is. You. Don't just need to donate to be actively involved in so many ways that you can be involved in that course for me as educators. It's is education and it might be. Talking to your friends to conceal children to everyone that you can talk to everyone that will listen if you said to there, and if somebody comes to you, if something and you feel like you haven't got the skills to over respond to them appropriately, you look down, go away. Read some stuff and then come back to them with answer all actually that conversation we had. This is why I thought united. Shameless who about educating yourself is no shame about which I literally. Sat here on Saturday. Not what's grab it was at. This is so interested. And then APU put my night. Pods inside taking notes snap, because actually this is something that needs to be incorporated into of his Ni- so. Police about that. Let me share some information about this. Unless while I'm constantly doing using whatever platform you have. If you've obviously got a platform use that. If you haven't got a platform, you've platform amongst your friendship. voted with your children. Can we talk a bit about massaging wall? And how this particularly relates to girls and women and the full fronting of men in this discussion, so the trigger points in America being male people, partly because of video evidence, but Brianna Taylor. who was a paramedic shot in her own home in her own bed? At No criminal record, and there isn't the same outrage for her, and there isn't the same consequences either because George. Floyd's killers have been arrested. Lloyd see today. One of them's been released. To, have been released to have been released after. least been some arrests theban with Brianna Tena guys been fired and I'm like I got five once because I left the cash books on the counter, and I went to the Lou. That's what you get fired for. You get five for consistently coffee orders wrong. You don't get fired for homicide. You get arrested for homicide and Polish. Be Investigation. Yeah, what have you think about the big power structures around imprisonment that kind of thing under the current system, when so many black people being arrested in prison for those men walk is not acceptable. So how does this? Impact black girls and women I feel like we've got to always work. Like ten times harder to kind of be seen will be noticed and. Taylor story on the fat Dr, still, waiting for the justice that she deserves because all these tests keep occurring. Because these people in their personal innocent? No the way they died was on location, happened and so able as a police officer. If you kill somebody, you should also be convicted for the matter just like any normal person would so I don't know why. As black people. It's as like a lower income sightseeing. Tijuana accepted equally because of our skin. I don't know how they can use someone's color open and just run with the. Just. Fair and I'm just waiting for justice to be served, and this is why me Steph for doing different things to try to help window documents to give up. Because tired of situations occur when we come, standard can be silent anymore because. We need to do something that was more of Austin. is of these police officers rethink black lives. Matter is really talking about massaging rob between within its confines. I think there's been no so campaigning about victims of police brutality as it happens, but it's always louder men now don't limit the I. Want everybody to be spoken about, but I want everyone to be spoken about the same volume. So what do we think we can do? As a movement to better educate also own way? We're not given the same victims. The same airtime are so to speak and. We make sure we're always self reflecting on no perpetuate in that reality, doing better for women and goes through other teams. I think for us. We need to work together on. Not Be enemies with one another because. He had because you're a man on a woman. Your lights in your skin will all on the same side we'll. We'll fighting for the same thing. I'm colors the other way where dot skip. Black women are excluded or not represented is real thing, isn't it? Yeah I mean definitely we have always spiritus. It's funny because I'm guy. These two to ending Guyanese after favors big finger. In similar the Asian Community colored experience Oh so experienced the same time, but anyway it's. Weird you know it's odd why why are people who all but I? Can Brown discriminating against each other based on different stages skin historical is because historically lice that was seemingly to whiteness menu. Get, and you can escape this prison or racing that you're in, and if you adopt, you had very seemingly. There was no and goes back to the cost system. It goes back to the plantations. You know we talk about the cost linear. About fifty sixty hundred years is talking about millennium. That's how old Indian culture is. Ancient Alcocer is nothing the baby culture fifth? Indian culture. It's inexcusable actually at this stage of our existence on the planet I can't blame anyone bosseaux. Point White for him and I will point a finger within four maintaining it that will wipe you very if you're light skin or whatever, but we don't have to participate in it anymore. We don't let let lights partners with asking upon that you'd have to we as musicians. To replace thoughts instincts in my mouth. She says what happens. We, make those decisions we need to own it. It was just kind of. My last comment is like we can't just off white people to unlearn a superiority. We have to unlearn off feelings of inferiority. We have to stop being invested in these systems to and be mood, Liqin Stoorikhel, but it was stage now where we will have to say we'd I stop doing it. It's not going go away. CARNOT's while you could fix this fall off over now. Late just to bring you in. You had a response to that later I could see and we haven't heard yet. I'm. Still, I I just love the fact up. You know I mean had experienced bid on a panel UNQ- anti-feminist with just black women, so I appreciate up. This is the kind of things needs to be done is using your white woman so you're using your privilege to amplify on? So I think that's really important. That needs to be continuous with a data. Do on disagree at the same time I think. It's difficult to offer black people. That behavior you cannot. Change if you're born into a system that doesn't allow you to think differently, so those who can't because we had the privilege so I have to be careful when we say hey, you know black people. Let's stop. I think that that would be great in one way, but it's very difficult when you're young black man who was born into a very impoverished area you went to the schools non funded in your school. This use antisne you. You harassed by the police. By the time you were eleven in prison by seventeen. It's difficult to really I think. For me, Mike Frustration around this. I would say this is another civil rights movement that's picked up and I'm very behind the message. Black lives matter because we almost marginalize people and I, said separate times on the phone said we need to talk about black women because they are left behind. There is a misogyny within that space to so for me while I thought to do it. As a therapist is actually start creating a safe space, just for black women not apologize for it I. Don't want to talk to what people in the space. I don't WanNa talk to Asian in space. If you considered black. You are allowed in this Faisal recreated online for ourselves because as black women. We need to express our anger. We need access our anger, not just with white people, but within our own community, because it's shocking to me that even with the marches we've had in the last couple of weeks and I've said this. We're GONNA. Forget about this again, but what's really upsetting his only loss week? A black lives activists female activists go killed sexually. Sexually assaulted, but no one's talking about her. Now what we have to think about is what we are dealing with. As much as physical pressure will be dealing with mental precedents. We are groomed into constantly thinking. We only come out when black men are killed, so that's one issue. We're dealing with and I guess all of us have separate solutions and electric, Assefi in all of us have to work together and I would like to join with you guys because. Few weeks ago, we post I posted just to create because I've been running online. emotional wellbeing calls for lots of activists, but I specifically crater on for Black Women, and within twenty four hours. We had full thousand requests, so we cannot say this is not happening it that and let me tell you. When these women were looking to the schools, they are fed up. They are frustrated account. Even go into some of the stories that these women told me from their workplace to their relationships. Just being black women is an issue, I, know as a black woman whenever I walk into space, as people are the whole day bags, think I'm their. Waitress, that's the norm for black women on a daily basis, the Ba- i WanNa bring into this conversation I have been working environment for over coming up to eighteen years now. Specifically women and girls who have been affected by female genital mutilation, but now also inactivity Montlake, dealing with women who experienced something breath signing, so they breasts are taken away, so men don't rate them so again. Another physical mutilation to protect gals from being raped from men. Why are we taking those issues seriously? Because majority of the time affects the black trialled. Because statistically. The most vulnerable human being in the world. It's the black girl child. Hence. Why so where we are talking about F- GM, F F, GM, breath, lining, or those issues to be part of the black lives movement space, so I actually like to suggest on this podcast will remain Stephanie. All we have to work together because a lot of actors really isolated not space, because no one if coming out and shouting for black girls who have been caught statistically every eleven second. Second I will be mutilated and you don't see marching for that, and that is what really frustrates now. That's where we're and also why again me and my friend Fatima. WHO created the space? Because we need space to be angry before we can move on and have solutions, we have to have the space to be angry because this has been going on for centuries and every time a black person. Expresses Anger. Frustration is always someone saying well. You know we must think about it this other way. Please don't be mad, but when a white man, let's be honest in the West. When was the people read? It pissed off. There was a war that happened in Iraq Jonathan Lomas to white people. Please come down. Please come down W so angry with Iraqis and Syrians. You don't people say that to white people, but when a black person expresses. Anger of what they experience is always less calm down. Let's find another solution and I'm really exhausted on tired of trying to explain the female genital mutilation, the sexual assault against children, and while we're not marching out, there is absolutely crazy to an, and that should not be on black people. Actually I would love to see a black lives matter we just. Just white people because what people need to use their power like that. Women Amy Kupa what Amy Kupa did. She knew how she weaponized her power. So what why people need to do, it's weaponized firepower news it for good, and there should be watching because we are exhausted. I'm exhausted. I didn't go to the Macho because I was tired because I'm running. These calls with women who are really really hurt, so that's exhausting for me. I cannot go out too much. I would love to buy literally just couldn't so I'm I'm someone who's in this phase where I'm angry, but I'm fed up, but something needs to change, but what we needs to change is we can't keep this as a issue that just brakes every few months or every couple of years. This is one of the worst forms of. Oppression genocide. We need to use the right language. This is genocide against black people. Gilbey mutilated this genocide against black children. We need to call it that we can't use the word cultural practice. Why do we use that word culture practice? When he's black kids? It's unbelievable. You know so sorry I'm bringing the While I'm not sure Porridge I told my opponent for. For angry, I will bring the anger because we need to be angry for black women and GonNa Apologize For that and what's happening to the GM at the moment, Leyla, you're telling me that it's because of looked down. It's got worse. It's worth it's absolutely not worth. Every Wednesday morning I do a cool with Furlan. Activists working in different parts of the world. And if this Hon I've actually quite become numb. Everyone some told side gas fault seven together today last week eight nine to go cut. And if there's no outrage, there's no newspapers covering this. It's unbelievable. It's to me is so it's really frustrating on on this stuff. I've experienced as a child. What does that say to me? You know my daughter gets cut that means she's not valued by the society. What I'm hearing is we are not valued because we were born female on black, we are not valued. That's won him with the time. It's not just FDM, some of them are sexually trafficked, you know. I get breath signings happening some of them I don't choose to West. Married off, cause a child, not be married off. These are older men buying girls as brides. So the violence I worry I was worried about black girls. Before is an interesting. How the world freaked out about a virus, but goes be mutilated, not same angle or nets, not saying attention to it. It's unbelievable. Setting your own gets mutilated publicly like where bodies taken away. I'm not saying there's nothing this. We shouldn't be outraged by this virus we should, but we really need to think about those human beings, but again it's the virus hurting people who are privileged, so we have to be outraged lately. You saying that some countries have now criminalized GM, but you find this very problematic. Absolutely listen globally globally. Every country. Humming a trial is already illegal, but again what we keep doing is. We say we need a separate law, just because of the way I'm looking now, and that's what's so frustrating, because then you're saying I'm different, and what really frustrates me every time there's like recently. There was a law that was pulsing Sudan and everybody was recorded this little video, saying okay great if they had to wait for religious men to give them permission. So that was crazy to me, they had to for man a six managed by Ben to from everywhere in the world. Actually the UN child convention that everybody every country has signed onto meaning that you cannot the only place that hasn't signed on the US interesting enough is because they have children on death row in the US. That's a whole host. The whole itchy. So legally children are protected from harm, but again for some reason there's a system because creating a noodle. If people need their consultants who are given these jobs. People have the right updates bills. There's money involved in creating knows you don't need you. Don't say to White Girls Oh. Yeah, your genitals mutilated. We'll have a low separately to you why it was a separate. When it comes to black brand children, and what's so crazy about the U. Kahlo. The child is expected to give evidence no Charles, going to give evidence against some parents so I. Find F- genuine I. Know a lot of my friends who are lawyers who are working will disagree with. With me because they believe they have to be symbolized law, but why is it for a particular group of people are not for everybody. Look Up, fronts. Franz has no F- GM act, and they had the highest number convictions in the world. 'cause they convict under the Taught Abuse Act because every tells equal under the law. That's what we say but I get again. We you back children there different even under the law. They different, so if someone took want Gerland committed a violent sexual assault on her as in the case of F. Jam. Immediately the perpetrates would prosecuted, but because it's a black girl, it has to have a special law well. Debra well I had a white women who came to my clinic completed the go because we were the only ones who could see her because she. Quick Story, so who she came out as gay to parents at age of searching her parents were very violent. People Anyway had dad few times when bedroom on Christmas off few times and lead it to connive to her genitalia. When she turned eighteen, she found out by the only place come because. She was mutated. That's what happened. We will only Clinton come to. She takes that to cope. He was never convicted under the F. jam-packed. He was convicted of the child abuse. Act Neglect. You know I mean there was on hold little thing, but not F- GM because white and I think this is where black have to speak out. When. We are talking about issues like Afghan as a cultural practice. This is something affects black children. So you'll Caribbean, you know if you're you know you're not necessarily from Africa. You have to speak out on this because I think that's also been the issue with Afghan. He was always considered. Something happens to African people on the side. It's not this is A. It's a black issue. You know black girls who are British affected by this also black activists, black people with big names. They need to speak out Newsday's platforms and say hey, this is not going to happen. and. That's also busy. She felt really isolated to be enough space. So one thing you were looking for his black celebrities to wear a t shirt to stand there to go. We have to stop this so if there are any I mean. This podcast is wide listenership and and. People listen to it. Who knows somebody hand? You get in touch with Leyland Sane at the Dalia Project and say yes, I would all you know. Yeah. I'm best friends with I need. Wrecked I'm being black, our black big names to come forward and say this is wrong. Yeah Athena. Are you friends with yourself up? Be Honest, No! Kanye. With him. As a mission! On. That's why challenge out theme him on twitter Help us to. Talk. His wife, the body might have to use like clan connections to get back. To you say no I doubt. Upjohn using my disrupting money. We've got a tweet us. We've got to be six degrees away. Be also also won the women on this podcast to really like we have to join together like. We obviously can. These faces is all of us, you know. It's five. Racing to not. Be Email working together. Stephanie, and actually I. Don't want to live I. Don't ever fall from you so. I have a penny columnist helps. My coffee fact for some means so. Around with my mistake. Twenty. Joining You on a speaker. To. Together. We have a six foot giant costume. We tried to chase to resume around with them up. Bring with me. And convenient speaker. It's five. To Stephanie Dismantling Kin. You are the director of the Black Education Project. Could you just tell us about that? Yes, I am. It's a company that spun out of lockdown I've always been really interested in black history I did social history at university, so it's something that I'm a huge be passionate about and then actually a lot of the protesters that teach history in school. School seats teach history in skull of departments. Each of seven years said every year reply met, and we always teach his where we are just doing it as a token gesture for black history month we will do it is high. Pick on someone or something, or incorporate it into English with our books or incorporated any way. We can so think him to find condemn at. I'm matching the national cricket episode. Of through the National Curriculum for reception. Developments Martinez up to the line, and actually you hotton, meet the objectives at incorporate black history into the curriculum and I think a lot of my issue is that teaches a scattered to try new things because that's not their area of expertise, but you need to think about how you apply yourself every time you go been to negate roadside. For example I recently moved Jake rapes great for quite a few years of one of the topics was. Rox I knew nothing about Rox. I had to go from research yet. A Muslim oversee now. It's the same thing if you'll. Topic is unique to cover this I'm reset shit exactly the same as you would any other pick just because it has the word black just because he's black history. It doesn't mean you need to approach history at a different way to how you would teach. Any other subject of my issue that I found now which I think. You know obviously people are still walking. The street signs teach history in schools. K. We need to teach teaches to the head and teach history because you can teach it in your skulls might project I've created lesson plans from reception up until the end of year nine full full schemes of what that meet that actually reject curricular objectives for each rape. Then skill was built on each other. It's very empowering so I've spent a lot of time working on them. Not just the civil rights movement and slavery. It's will guys beyond that and so tied to Aden with the other topics that happen. Across the graves. I've all side plans. English units matching their English objectives in the reading. Objectives will shake rape. There's another phase of still working on because I've had to email lots of popular houses and authors individually because I've been permission supplied from their books. History side of it is pretty much. COMPLA- I'm just white in on because I wanted to live this as a full package. So you've got history, you've got your. English, you've got everything you could to guy and teach it so if we're teacher, we can come and get it from the black. Education Project, and we get some results is my issue is once children young adults into your head? Because they used to be section? Obviously, it's. It's had made GSA. As you're kind of restricted in the texts and the history that you can take, and that is where it is a problem, teach black history, because it doesn't seem to me any of the objectives and for English that are eleven books in the section of British authors now used to be parties from a different culture. Now they scrapped that section in two, thousand, fourteen, and my Angeles Book was in that section. The cage bed six now that was scrapped. Two Thousand and four tastes have very recently very odd COPPA, but it was then replaced by this new segment about which authors now there were eleven books in this section, and not single advice been books is written by Blah. To one of the books is about child that's come to England from Africa I. Haven't read the book by Vesey Right about the book. The book is written by forty four year old man, white man from Lee Ted. You've inclusive techs in that in terms of content, actually that are so many amazing. Black British authors wanted the government tight the opportunity to say okay. Let's take this off. That's. night. Do you think if we call to Maya Angelou ten they might. On the syllabus I'm. But this. Isn't a removing my Angeles Folk? There's an intent behind it. That's the whole point is not like they didn't know what they were doing. They knew what they were doing. That's why they removed it. Again, it's a brainwashing system because I remember in school. When I watched my parents menu, watch roots old way to the end by in school, women numbers roots old way to the end. We only see the bit that we're black before kidnapped, and though inflamed knows the end of the story. But, that's a way of Ziming. Somebody's mind that you are supposed to think this who you are, so it's I'm not surprised, but this is the bacteria on all the time. You have to fight the system again on May three Rd quick points because of what you're saying is really important. First of all fats that. You're spying. Love Fast Yeah the first gun show fired start logo. Him was five bucks on Aden. Ends loners alleging when we told you. This is my second fact. When we talk about black history with us. We're GONNA. Buy His shoe. That is any different registry of people that are plow. He pull will around they Smith Okay. There will not like. He's walking rapper. Kwame Nkrumah. Black men for Winston and we find that culturally appropriate, because that's the Jamaican night where it's Jamaican them almost famous prime ministers Winston so the concept of black This bubble that the pull things out of sticking funny people is is actually correct ways correct. Is that history? It's been whitewashed black history simply in black. Go back into the history there ready learning. You can learn about black people still not about World War Two. You cannot about black people not about the shooter's okay. It's think that is an institutional line which they don't. Struggle to communicate this for some reason. Why saying we want black people in the curriculum, we're not saying what black is you're saying we want you arrange the curriculum you ready have. On on school upset point institutions slow to change. We know this because they've even awesome is a change. Four hundred years. People are quick to challenge if we can empower themselves to do one thing is privilege. People is like those books on that Jesus sequin wife, but your bookshelves at home. They can have whatever they want. Okay well. Can we go one of our campaign on the schools, but the other part is like how. How. Can we empower all cells and off homes to concurrently empowered things about what happened in the school? My friend has a daughter. You went to school and was studying Christopher Columbus offenders from Barbados and Trinidad and when she came home with homework, talking about how great Columbus was, she could sit down and say by the way he was in. Egypt got lost all the time more time. He knows it sunny funny. When I was teaching in year to one of our topics was Chris. Columbus my head teaches actually in Australia mom say he's always been for. Opt to Christopher. Columbus is amazing. He's great a anyway then. I? Changed the planet and I remember doing at a certain way, and he was literally sounded. Side mortified as minded seventy roads. I. Love facts of and also as well. The facts eight. Times is that that's not what I was told. In scope of see grew up in Australia. That was his education. It was well. This is what we need to unite. This is actually what needs cough, but I actually go a detention for saying the Columbus got lost, he never found America because I grew up his easily talk with so I knew about I watch cartoons of Christopher Columbus, but I never understood. Has Somebody found gland that already had people in it so in my year nine paper. I basically reflected on the fact that I think. I said he couldn't have on my teacher telling me she said. You need to change your. You fail and I got detention for. Harsh! You writes the reason that native American is because. He thought he was in India is now. He wasn't the brightest tune in the. In the box will say. Shoppers to the box doesn't reflect well me either. Maybe be unrelated to Christopher Columbus. He will off the box. Can I ask first of all Leyla Hussein? Is that anything? You came to say that? You didn't get to say that you'd like to leave on the table. And how can we help you? What can we do? While upset everything. I needed to say I think for me right now. My number one priority is that safe space for black women, so if you bought my instagram page, we have a google form for the women to fill in this. We're going to be interviewing. Couple of other back. Therapists will be joining us, so we're going to be running, so we run out on Thursdays snappy hoping to do more days i. think so me right now. We need space to vent. Apologized that's quite critical to me and if you want unpaid. If you support the dining project, the be also great. So, financially support the Danica project. If you're a black woman and you need some safe space to talk exclusively to other Black Women Leyla is. has set up an amazing productivity money to fund as well. We do actually charity, so people have donated. People actually donate money to us as we speak, so that will be. We're GONNA happen yeah because I have a you. Know we didn't do that, so I set up enterprise company a year ago while I'm dealing with emotion, bobby walks up. We just do any under that, so go in UK. Is that your instagram yet? Go to latest exciting K. and get involved either if you're a black woman. If. You need to save space, or if you'd like to donate and just amplify what ladies don't if you don't have any money, that's fine. With other black women, space is so important, all share with other people who are white or other races who may donate or amplify and support. What can we do to help you? I'm still. Working on a project, so wherever I kind of caught the sweet up Negros to support replaced in commenting or just trying to spread awareness for. Leyla doing with the GM thing unless something that we need to spend more, when as soon the next time I go on the streets I. Make sure I have a price for that, too, because this is something. Really Important Sir. Man, it's honestly. Amazing active women! Where can we fully you at day? Underscore talks which ad underscore Ta, KS and I really recommend you follow adding on instagram because she's a model as well to so many amazing images as well as much amazing black lives matter staff. It's really really good my. Experience has been augmented massively since following. An Is there anything else you came to say to get off your chest about black women goes mattering before you go i. just hope that something like this because I've not been the put 'cause myself before. I let the our eight onto the shows. Thank you very much deborah and also thank you very much stanford as well because I wouldn't have that connection to today, but I think that needs to be more of this like. I'm still I'm a twenty six year old flat. Famous I'm still learning myself every day. I'm still trying to figure out who I am. An NASA journey that will. So I think. by Venus fiber other people do doing. It's good because you're cutting off your learning and you're finding ways to improve yourself what you can do to help society so I think it's amazing what you are doing. Thank you, Atta and what you said before, but not dropping the ball going all that was two weeks. We all went on a march. We put something on our instagram and then move. Move on with inverted commas normal life, the reason it needs to happen was normal. Life wasn't normal, and we need to do the work to change the system, and a as Rene Notre says when you hold power. Where do you hold influence? What can you change if you think Oh God the world same spot. What area do you have infants over and that could be something in your. Your family your working life the way you your children what you asked to be on the curriculum at your children's school, what you will go in and do an after school club? There's all sorts of ways that you do. How power that you don't realize you. HOLD POW and do remember if you're a white woman, the power of the sort of meaning if the Karen you know who. Who going to speak to the manager you do, hold power, and that's what they were saying on the. We're having a moment. Cost is if those women went down to the border to get kids out of cages, so think about what you have POW Stephanie's anything. You say that you didn't get say yes, I am festival. When I was go for black history. Mum, there was one week. Not History was taught before school five Allah and I need to answer invited to attend the sessions. I neither as a whole generation, which a not ignorant on pat pets. It wasn't their fault, but they've got no knowledge of history because it wasn't taught to them. Because you say segregated, it was before the black children tonight. I want these people to know that they hadn't find out and if they do want to send me a message, Osma question or read for Pastes I'm occupan to educate. Authors is what it comes naturally to me. I would happily discuss things with you if that's what you want to talk about where we follow you them. Stephanie Eb Black. Dot Lives Matty Kay. Dog Lives Matter UK. Yeah, that's very generous. Offer and please don't just ask random black people to educate you. But if somebody is. exhausted. You know it's. True though he's. Never had a black person. Just message me. Go you know about Shakespeare? Fudgy tutorial because I I want A. Really busy being. When when when I get messages, I say okay will if you don't neither somebody else doesn't know this and more time than to post about the message and say you know what was reading something about that Monday the price this afternoon. Then I'll price it because that Lebanon onscreen, says he all this. People that aren't oxygen and today holiday on. It. Off the not ask yeah, exact- off. The is really important, so important is, is everyone. Wait thank you. Are Offering to do that and I think people are going to take you up on it. Also that curriculum that you're creating for kids, it would be really valuable resources for all of us who style education and we? Also don't know if there's any way that can be online. I have a guy. Funds may page on Mike how I've said I've got a website. WWW black education projects, or Katie Nice and easy to remember the resources at the Mayan. Guy Funds May and I'm white into per olaf that he stage one material Burke Sam so whites him for permission for in books. It seems I've got permission I can put everything polite together, and then he needs pay. Design are because I actually wanted to ensure these resources really high quality I did want it to be something. I've other anywhere designers out there. Who would like to do this? I'm specifically asking for white designers to do it for free. At least black designers to do it for free I'm not asking black dishonesty to it for free, but that would be great. If you could send your CV in a sample of your work and you were prepared to that was way you could contribute, or even you might say I'll do some of it for free, and I'll set the house style, and then you can get another more junior designer to copy that you might pay or whatever, but if some designer would like to get involved, that would be a really nice thing to do. You might be in lockdown and think I really want to get involved in black lives matter but. I've been on a couple of marches. What else can I do? This would be a great thing to get involved in alternate to that I. think that sounds really practical and brilliant. Thank you? Stephanie and Athena could blend you. Is there anything you came to say today that you did not get off your chest? Yeah, and something that we've said more or less. If you're not far in all black people, you're not fighting. Women Goes Trans Men Trans Women. On a report on binary. Reflection shoes refugee leasing the. All black people everywhere so if it's. Over how are you for the Congo right now? You know one hundred and sixty people died in Ethiopia that we find for them. If you fighting for all black cat will not five black lives matter, and it's so ruled is limitless is there is so much, and it's never enough so whatever you can do. You just understand it's not just straight. Black Man is not just Americans it's not just British people. It's not just black in. Europe, is that people everywhere weeks on the bizarre global consistent? Body of oppression and this freedom of all of us now we've had enough for all of us now and need to reiterate because before I was saying what is triggered this recent black lives matter movement to come to boiling point in a way that people of all races are prepared to come out onto. The street is black men, being brutalized and killed on video, which is horrific and horrendous, and shouldn't happen and my point before was like when it happens to black women. We don't seem to get the same spots, but that is not to in any way undermined the fact that we do need this response for Black Man and it is not just open. He was formidable, but also. Also it turns out. He was a teacher. It doesn't matter if the black man was a six foot five on a boxer. It doesn't matter if he was guilty. The police are not there to kill people on the street. They are not judging. Jury and nobody should be killing anybody on the street I. Think we do have a sense of Oh, but this was an exceptional black man. No, no, no, no, no, no, no black lives matter full stop, but within that we do need to look for vulnerable groups. Black Trans Women, expectancy is poor, and it should not be so. Thank you so much. All of you and a scenic anywhere we you. Where else can we hear you I? WanNa come see me tweeting about depraved. White people come confined to everyday. But twitter components where. Your twitter account is very education. I've learned a lot from. You know different than you are real life I. Think am I well. I can't explain that I don't have more words in your life so. Yeah the money you very. I know. And so free. And also you have your own podcast. I do our podcast keeping within the company. People come round company. We have a chat and sometimes say Nice cable in that, too, if you'd like great. And finally Bumi Thomas. We delighted to see that you a British musician astill in Britain. Is there anything that we can do to help you? Stay in prison or to fight the Home Office in all of its inclusive compassionate, glory. Oh the home of this. I mean that's a loaded question and feel free to the trigger. Yeah, it's insane. I feel I. Mean When we look at the amalgamation. Because of these experiences into connected from the lights, the black lives matter movement to registration of kids wouldn't UK under the age of eighteen to policies that up in within that a very divisive and very kind of couvert in its marginalization of people of color. Yes become right to I M P's yes, we can create wellness about the issues that are taking place in mealtime, but I think to kind of what Smith. The other guest set date really is about education. A lot of people really don't know what lay of the land is and It needs to be more present. I think in its social sciences. Needs to be more present in on the news needs to be more presence in the social services at schools. I think it's a massive overhaul is in Massachusetts and doesn't involve writing to MP, but I think it's also involves. MP's educating themselves. On reality. That hope that they would. Make in terms of what the real needs of their constituent saw I mean. There's sort of career politics than this. They're actually people in politics with because the recognized their pollen that they can make a change. And constituents to inform them of what our needs One vote, so if enough constituents tell them they want something. and. It's easier for them to give it I do vote. Me Tell us about your album. So broken silence is the name of my ep and broken silence was written in response to my experience with the Home Office. Midst very much about. Displacement in belonging, it's about the fact that we identify so many things, but at the core of our constitution beings is our sovereignty. And that sovereignty exists in spite all land or. Creed or gender. And if we don't regulate and understand all with a self. Self value then was subject to send many forms of discrimination at the level of intensity that is to be paralyzing anthem highly dysfunctional. So it's my personal almost entry and saying what I went through to traverse the state, self, lunging and criminality as result of the date of birth criminality that has been fabricated based on the political in how that interferes with one's personal experience in this case mine. It's about a black woman who is rediscovering herself. On having to do so because that is a historical contradiction in it's about the role that music plays in integrates. A minister form for healing and the platform to create awareness about the fragility of identity and Just opening up space to have this conversation in a holistic way. Could you play a song from a place? So have two options either on this black child, which is kinda perfect, and there's one called Nestle. Nestle Nestle. I think I'll start with less black child then. We can have a vote. Demonstrate. The MOXIE and action. SOS less on. Never saw fire. Every hard is the key. To open any to. You through the jury. With the sense of the show. NOTARO's says his shipping breathe in the light of creation rise to the. Leftist in the. Food, love joy flow. Some good here up welcome news. Sucker Song. Love! Less Saul. Who saw. Leiden from coast share shift in the. Shed and all broke skin. From? The. Nations. Be, and the lessons of mass. Taking root and sprouting links. Love. The less. Less some. Kosov, Assam. Alco song. Two lithium hot this time gentle. South, please. Be Gentle. Jen To Something with his soul. Awfully so? Soccer Song. saw. Else. That was amazing. That was beautiful song drinking. Thank you. So that songs a conversation with my father. And it's about waking. I wrote the song I woke up and I forgot that I had a refusal. I forgot about all the politics than just woke up. Live and I was giggling dreamy, and then I remembered in our recall being like. Wow, you can choose state, even have it. I think this goes to what Athena saying about. Sometimes it's exhausting because you wake up in the sort of activate the program and you get caught in a row. And it's a role that sort of undermines your sovereignty. You have the right to choose choose from, and no government can decide that for you in a lap. Child is more about standing where you are. Not Feeling like you have to run because she don't have to. Transatlantic Rhythm. Blowing through my veins. Pumping through my, Last! Paean. International Woman. I'm seizing the moment. Boy To this by design. Spot summing. Culture migration is complex situation. By need to seek the free move. To Experience I. saw. We, education. ooh! Now I'm calling. Then and see. Swimming against the tide I'll just won't beefy free. Back. Off! that. Off. To. The handed if you re Lefika. Whole Heyhoe. Route Niger skinks, you up on champion by. Because! We never part of them plan now. Facing you concede, will I am A. Made a strong. His she's in our culture. Try to ride a side of the history read. lack of Mr. From US man. Off. that. The C.. Three? You. Know All. Of the. CIA. First. World Second World were full wealthiest, one six hundred seven one shot I. Don't get it. Kim Everybody. Around the world is dominating. Immediately. Absolutely stunning booming. You are such talent, and as far as I'm concerned Britain where you were born to be begging you to stay and offering you enormous bursaries to say and make music. Thank you so much for. Today I'd love to come on the show and all the time and. which we gray, yeah, I wanNA talk to you to and I really enjoyed our first conversation, and also the fact that you would like. Hold up stop. Let's talk about what's going on and don't suppress it in this. An issue and we can change it I remember that moment without beautiful Little Girl I. Think Her dad bought her. A ticket I think it was the thirteenth birthday is. Her to get to the rabbit hole and they were like in the front row. Retired and she came out she was. Don't take him to. The End. Yes and that was pivotal moment in for me in my memory of that experience and a turning point in terms of women from. Frost spectrum powerful, young old, whatever I mean were all unified on the energy that is generated when we come together in conversation from a place of Unity McLean of. Honesty raw authentic honesty. Advocating change that only we can stimulate. It's wonderful than its powerful and broken silence is about that without unifying voice that sort of dissolves difference and brings people together because we all had different experiences of discrimination or in disability or erasure. We've all felt broken, and we all had to kind of rebirth ourselves from being a bad relationship or marriage or the loss of your identity of the loss of your home at a certain point in your life, you're going menopausal loss of your the so many stages of transformation, reinvention and I just feel that as women, we are the healing balm that balances the experience, but also artists Speaker stinkers activists. Frontline Workers Comedians we create the space these consolidating voices annum. I would definitely love to speak to you more about that. broken silence is available now on all major digital platforms I'm happy to talk and connect on twitter. Instagram facebook will Thomas and leash remind Thomas? Such joy, an honor to have you place ads day It's just glorious and your. Your EP will be on a leap in my house I know that. Thank you and it might be a few people's Chris presence as well. You happy listening to guilty feminist. Process why Guess Coast then you very special slater, Hussein Stephanie. At I came out of Sonya Music from booby Thomas guilty feminist named. Much accused me. Shelter Producers Thompson inskeep alternate show. Thanks to rage geodesy on. Everyone accepts that half. Of a snake more information about this other absurd sit! and. Elbow. Anger. Profile, Black Person Leyla Hussein me. If you're hiring the. person that's great as well or an agent. Helped me. Look for black people how `bout that? Literally beat somebody to start with a t shirt and go. This is not okay. Thanks again to Fleishman is in trouble sponsoring this week's episode by now in paperback wherever books are sold. Thank you so much to all of our patients, but especially those who are supporting us at the smash, the Patriarchy level, or above Valerie, Ma Junk Will Koi Sarah Brown Rivers Thomson Sarah Boom and Philip Englehart.

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209. Credibility with Jenny Slate and guests Chanel Miller, Lila Nordstrom and Monica Beletsky

The Guilty Feminist

1:20:15 hr | 5 months ago

209. Credibility with Jenny Slate and guests Chanel Miller, Lila Nordstrom and Monica Beletsky

"This episode is brought to you by Kobe Dot Com. Your local digital bookshop. Offering evokes audiobooks and e readers. I'm a feminist. But I enjoy the pain of Bikini Wax because it makes me feel alive when I'm feeling sad about the patriarchy. Sis Little Oh yeah. Wakes you yeah, it does. It makes you feel really super alive yeah. Yeah I mean normally do it for sex, but actually it can be. Just do it because it kind of feels like I'm like testing my pain. Tolerance and I see my bravery I'll tell you what and feel free to have your husband totally cut this out, but I like just wax my ass crack I'm love it. It feels great, and I just got a bikini wax this week and the position that you have to get in order to have that happen is very intimate. And to help you just shoot. Know. No, no, yeah, not like I. Don't have like. Like! What would that be like a reverse mullet? or Like it would be, it would be really funny actually to have like a full Bush. Like coming out of your bathing, suit and stuff just like weirdly as super pristine. Yes. That is a look that is so funny and it definitely directs the attention to where you want the action to be I would assume. Chipset, but I like it, but I'm still like You know my kind of like. Am I like eating Shit here? A little bit should I not do this and so I- balanced it out by talking about climate change for the entire time. Oh yeah, that's good, so you offset the waxing. Yes, carbon-offset feminism. That's right. Unlike her. I'm a feminist. In Agnostic, but times when I imagine God, even though I know that God should have a or even be of China I just imagine King Triton from the Little Mermaid. The Most Patriarchal Gall Daddy. Daddy God doesn't mind that I sold my voice. It's sort of like divinity issues like issues. With the Almighty Yeah. Haven't we all got daddy issues with the Almighty in away? Short I mean you know. I just can't leg I just really recently thinking about it I'm like I cannot believe that I was raised up in a religion that told me that God was a man who wants me to say for one day a say, sorry all day while I fast, which is basically what I have to do all day anyway because actress. Is Just like starve and be like that. Sorry sorry. Yeah. Harvey wants God common. I'm a feminist, but I. Just Watch Jenny slates netflix's special. Stage Fright which is absolutely incredible and it just so many incredible ideas, and I absolutely amazing ideas in it, but I was distracted by how magnificent your outfit was a lot like it was amazing. It's like these. Anglo Palazzo pants a wide legged trouser. I'm fashion enough to speak in the singular. A wide like trouser. Yeah at a silk. Blouse looks like they were from the same story. Are they? Are they are? Who Will you wearing? It's a designer called. Low Ten and I L. I. L., O. T. A. N.. Yeah I really just wanted to wear something that felt kind of like classic, but had sort of a tremor of sexuality, so has a term sex. I liked showing my bra I like that and I actually wouldn't put that in like an I'm a feminist, but. There is a lot about women doing. Stand up where it's like for a while. It felt like if you're going to do it, you have to kind of be the girl version of a boy or something like a Hoodie and just like. Don't themm yourself up like so many comedians. Lenny I. Just think the best way for me to always deal with. That was to say like. That's like a garbage law I I don't believe in that I. Don't like it and I. Don't believe that and I know how I like to look and I. Just really like giving like yeah, just like a little bit of like this is my underpants, and like you don't control what it does, and you're allowed to look at it at a distance and I like. Just like your dom right now. A little bit like I'm telling you that's it. Wow, yeah, like it I like how it feels Autho Yeah Do you have another? Joe Have Oh. Yeah it's sort of well sort of embarrassing, but I really had to dig for this one. I'm a feminist, but one time I used might. I cried my way out of jury. Duty Oh. Yeah, tell me. It's such a thumper. Yeah, I was I was a much younger woman. And I just didn't want to have to do that. I didn't want to do jury duty. Say. You have to have something to go with those too. Yeah. Well, so luckily. I wasn't like I'm dislike, frayed or anything like that but I said. I cried and said that I couldn't do jury duty because I was supposed to go to Florida to visit my Nanna. and not she was really sick. And that I just really needed to be there. I don't want to call white privilege on this, but I'm going to assure it everything bad. I mean it's absolutely everything bad. That was like a twenty three year old pothead who just was like? There's no way I can sit through a thing. Yeah. She was wanted to do gt because I've was imagined myself in the twelve angry men, only twelve women thank you sometimes the jurors, a woman or a non binary person, says shut up, yeah. I four is much myself being the one that turns the jury. Sure I mean that's like a very cool thing i. Hate sitting in places. It's not that's enough. I'm so afraid of being bored and I'm just like. What's IT GONNA be like in there. Have a I'm a feminist, but when I'm in L. A. I always think see famous people, but usually they're just regular people imposing famous features on because I'm in La. I think is that. There's an today at the double take at a low rent. Robert Downey Junior. Until. What if it was him and then like we made eye contact, and he said I couldn't help. No Sing, you yeah! Sorry if I was staring at you I'm just sad because I've just broken up with my partner and newly single. And she's going on a date tonight and I know I shouldn't. That shouldn't matter to me and that's her life, and that's absolutely her progressive, and we're trying to retrain myself. It's driving me crazy and I'm trying not to be that guy and I say yeah. I hid in my head. I'm thinking Oh my God Robert Downey junior is much more of a feminist than I would have imagined. And he has a better understanding of these issues. Then you then say, would it help if you had a drink with me? And then you could pretend you're on stain. Right, and he says yeah, she be great. That'd really be helpful. And I think Oh God I'm going to show tonight. ICON put Robert Downey junior ahead of feminism. Obviously, that would be wrong, but then. In my daydream. There's an earthquake happened last night. Did anyone feel the earthquake? So, yeah, there was a little earthquake. Last night was tiny, but I could see. Where I was I could just feel a little bit. And so, in my this just happened outside, so in my daydream today I was like there's another earthquake and there's a big announcement. Loudspeakers that say. Everyone has to stay. All shows capsule. The will be on tomorrow night. Right so we still got to do the show. It's just. Off By one time. The safest thing you can do is go back to your hotel room and get into bed. Or House and Robert Downey says on my house is an hour away, and I say well. My hotel is right here. And I want you to get hurt. Physically when you've just been emotionally hurt. And he says thank you so much. You're lovely and very pretty. My name is Robert, Downey Junior. And I say I know I'm Deborah Frances White. We've both got three names. What are the chances at? He says I know who you are. I'm a big fan of the guilty feminist podcast. Why do you think I say such feminists stuff? Well. Yeah. That's that's the story. That's the little. And wouldn't just be amazing. If right now one of US said Ladies and gentlemen here he's on your. He's here. I was. I thought it was just a man. Nothing like him. The. Third. Spy Guscott. Special. Be Talking, about. This guilty feminists, the podcast in which. Noble Goals is twenty first century feminists to the hypocrisies and insecurities which the mind them. With Jenny slate and we're talking about credits, Hey! Hey. Thank you so much for coming to do this. Thank you. Do I take this thing out here, too? Just because I feel, I might be more casual feel like we're like soldiers. Sitting is definitely feel like I'm being like depositions. If I keep an eighth, have a little bit of inquiry field it makes. Much more relaxed trying trying to explain why facebook dot evil. into a microphone, the. He can't do it. No definitely come to kind of it being evil evil yet this country that doesn't seem to matter as much as absolutely should. I've noticed. I've only noticed that some of the facts get confused here with some of the absolute. You're being hysterical. Yeah, it's a bummer what's going on here? I'll tell you that. Even America suddenly. Special. It's I. mean the Mark Zuckerberg. Thing really blows me away because it's like dude, you actually could be a hero like you could. If you just like make a few policy changes, you could be like a huge hero I think he's more interested in being evil genius, Brian, I always forget about evil genius. Yeah, because I always think that I think if just vessels just said I'm going to pay my staff a good strong wage and I'll still be a multi-billionaire. Everyone would be like you're. The bar is very low for a white man. Yes, supporting hostage to impress US right even if he's a multibillionaire, but he's just like I'm just going to pay must off like I. Don't know what's minimum wage in this country. Seven dollars a copy. That's the minimum wage of seven dollars. Okay all right. This is not the process, right. Nobody knows what minimum wages because no one has owning it. Twelve dollars in California, thank you very much, and that's categorical, said that with absolute deafness. Yeah she said that if she was a man and a meeting, it didn't really know. We. We've go with it. Hundreds believed. That's fact, and if in fact it is a brand, new will be lower by tomorrow morning because of the way she said. Like hundred said his twelve bucks. which is not so let's just turned around. And when all my Stafa. Getting thirty five, he'd still be the richest man in the universe by some way, and everyone would think he was some kind of giant hero. Yeah, and I'd be willing to give him any sexual favors. He wished for sure for just I mean just for one. No just one night you know it's not a good kind comes up film. As those yeah, I think you'd have to like. Do like a play on words like something about how it like overnight shipping. And I'll tell you what I am actually the worst person at word play. I don't seem to understand what a PUN is. Apparently according to some of my friends, I'll say something going. No Pun intended and they'll say that. We didn't have one. Pun there at all go to. intendant it because you didn't. Is it like Joey from friends doesn't know what the quote monks does, so he just does not. You know actually that is one of my pet peeves is when like on a handwritten sign? People are like. We have air conditioning with air quotes on air. Thing is like. What are you making fun of me or you or you like? Conditioning, like what is it? Underlined his, what if I, put air quotes around air conditioning? We have conditioning. We have an open window, right? Like a joke, right or just it's just. It doesn't make sense they're trying to rather. Mining it. That's right. That's right pun intended. So, thank you very much for coming. We're talking today about credibility. Yes, I. Do you feel like you have credibility in an era lack credibility? I feel that I have credibility when talking about romantic relationships. Even though up until now I have only failed. including, getting divorced, and I have zero success track record in a way, but I feel like I have credibility there, but that's not a gender thing and in general i. mean maybe I just feel this way from because I started to be a comedian right when I graduated college like I was twenty two. and. A really obviously noticed right away that stand up, comedy is. You know it's like a performance John that is dominated by men and I really started to know for sure that my comedy. Although sometimes it's a belt. My gender really comes from my nature and. You can't deny that sometimes you are given credibility that you don't deserve because of your gender or whatever that I have worked pretty hard to keep it in like a silo for myself that it is just i. just think I'm credible because of what I have experienced, my vaginal, or my gender is not really a part of that, but I will say I give a lot of relationship. Advice in the people are like. But you didn't you in like? Yeah, no, no I know I know but. But in a way that I think that makes you a better relationship advice. Yeah, because you've dumped some trying and some testing. Somebody who meets the love of their life is exactly right for them at eighteen, and then just to sail through life without one person. What do they know about relationships? Only know is how to be married to Bill Sandy. What are they fucking not? They know how to be married to someone who's right for them? Yeah, which is. Great for them, but doesn't give them any practical advice. If you've had a series of relationships, which of down. Or exploded short. Then, you time you'll. You'll scientists and allowed experimenting collecting Data Yeah I. Trust You more than this one over here. WHO's like we? Love and we have for twenty five years or good for you. Yeah, THAT'S A. Test. Launches. Yeah Yeah. Yes, all! I feel a little bit with Tom I know how to be March Thompson Linski. That's all I've got few. If you're going to marry Linski, I have a handbook. This big you WanNa, marry my husband. I can tell you everything you need to know. If you WANNA marry any other human being in the world. You're on your own. Because I only know how to please Thomas, Alinsky and I don't even know how to do that most of the time. I'm probably four days out of seven. Because he was still together, he hasn't booked. Four days out of seven. I'm a pleasure to be with yeah. That sounds wonderful. I mean we don't talk for a month, so not really good for the relationship because he misses me. Yeah, Missing People Yeah I. Miss Him too, but. I'm the one on the road. Yeah having fun. He's the one you know at home going. Where is she? Yeah. It's if he goes away. You know there's a hallway that person should be, but there's a hole in Chicago whigham should be sucked. The whole, CHICAGO Nintendo. Kobe dot. com is a digital bookshop encouraging you to stay home and read rather than go out and mix with of people without mouse gone. It has lots of great audio an e-book. The guilty feminist book is available in both formats along with all other books on your to read. List. Are you feminist writer? Well Kobo is home to Kobe writing life a very easy to use platform for authors to independently published their own books, so maybe you could probably share on book there. It makes them available in the Kobe store for readers and listeners around the world, and it is open to all writers covers even gone to the trouble of creating a great list of feminist reads listens over on Kobe Dot. COM SLASH P false guilty feminist. We could also intercom petition to win a Kobo e reader, and they sent me one and a half to say I, love it, you can also check out the Kobo writing life podcast and go to the website. Come slash writing life. Thank you so much to our wonderful friends at Cobo sponsoring the guilty from his podcast and keeping US going during lockdown. Jenny slate has written a wonderful book. Would you like to hear something from it? Pays. Welcome to the stage, the wonderful johnny slow. So I should mention that in my book, which is very much about being alive. There are probably six or so pieces called I died. That's not real although I did write this book like a lot while I was depressed. I realized that I wanted to get kinda close to the phrase. I died without people thinking that I was actually GonNa, kill myself, but like I was like some things are happening that really make me feel so sad that they're kind of like killing me, and so this is a piece that I wrote about having to listen to sort of a false ally or a misogynist who? Wants to stay in the center of a conversation that is not about him. It's called I died listening. I died Oh. God I did talk. Some man was standing right in the middle of the room, talking about how he knew that now is the time for men to listen, and he was proud to say that he knew how to listen, but strangely he kept talking for so long. And I was the one who was listening, and so then what happened was that my head twisted around on my neck and face the wall. But that didn't seem to bother him, and it certainly didn't stop him. Because I guess he was on a roll, and then he just walked around to the other side of me and kept talking. And what he was saying was so obvious, but backward in wrong. But to tell him that would have caused a big bus stop, and even though my head was on backwards, and my brain felt you know not at its best. I was still aware that two very bad choices were being shoved at me. Tell him that he's right, or at least on the right track, and therefore lie, and also abandoned myself and cause more damage by letting his ignorance and monologue. Go on forever or tell. Tell Him. No, he is not even close to correct and the fact that he has punched diffic-. Eating and instructing, and not actually conversing is a sign that he does not even remotely understand, but then after seeing that I would have to weather the storm of his humiliation frustration, and somehow end up feeling bad about myself like I should have been gentler and treated him like a child who simply doesn't know any better. Or should I have been grateful that he was interested in talking about listening. But then again he was demanding to be treated like a man who does know how to listen, but he was asking me to only listen him and lied him, and maybe give them a price. And I was so chilled by the reality of having to choose between bad and worse that my heart came flash frozen, and then it cracked in half, and so what I'm basically saying is that my heart broke almost right away and then I thought. Oh great now I've got a backwards head and the broken thing. I tried to sit very still, but inside of me. The blood couldn't go around because there was no working heart to pump it and he was still talking. Even still, and what happened, then was that my backwards head, which was already under a fair amount of stress from facing the wrong side of my body, and only offered a bad. The man. And then the wall. Well my backwards head sort of tore off at the neck, and dangled down, just hung there for quite a while, which was unsightly and embarrassing. Oh no I didn't want to look ugly. The man was getting irritated because I guess I was making a face and rolling my eyes, but what was hard about that was that my head was dangling upside down, and so my eyeballs word to be. They're rolling around. He started to ask ten defensive questions to which the answer was clearly supposed to. No the problem, isn't you? It's other worst men who do crimes and things like that. Although it was him, and it is probably all of us. Oh, as my eyes roll back in my head and I saw into my own mind I caught a glimpse of some old messages scrawled on the walls in there, and I thought the. The bad thing has gotten into us and we all need to get it out of us. And when I started to think about how it is certainly all of us that have a bid of this bad thing in us. The shards of my frozen heart really began to prick at me, and my dangling head became as heavy as a wrecking ball, and then my head, just completely disengaged from the rest of. It fell off and it bunked down onto the floor. I felt it will slightly away, but I didn't know how far it had gone, and that was stressful because I wanted to have some control over my head. But I didn't want to be rude by kneeling down and feeling around on the floor for the head, because that might make it seem like I was distracted or not listening. And the man was already so strangely angry, even though I was the one falling to pieces and everything he was saying was in favor of keeping himself together, and also never changing, even though everything he was saying was being set, dismantle and de-legitimize humane system I believed in the one that demands equal rights and good old, old-fashioned empathy, the one that would strip him of his excessive privileges, the one that celebrates things being various multi plural open, and requires him to explore being truly vulnerable. I wanted him to understand that. Being vulnerable is a different thing for everyone. Is it developed in specific skill involving personally specific actions that are terrifying, but I couldn't really get a word in edgewise as they say. I really did feel concerned about where my head might be and I could feel my blood as it stalled inside of myself, I was taking a breath. Maybe every three minutes and I started to worry that you know this was not going to work out for me because that's just not enough. It's nowhere near the amount of breath that he was getting to suck in and smart out. But then again I didn't WanNa seem like I wasn't being attentive because. I had let them in on a terrible secret. which is that many men interrupt? Regard Women and do it religiously and don't even notice that they're doing it, but also gained power by doing it even if they do it without thinking without what I guess, you would call consideration and so now. If I ever interrupted the man, he would tell me in my own language how painful it is to be interrupted. He would explain in a voice that sounded so much like my own. How I am not consider it even though I am considering a lot an yes, that would confuse me because he would sound just like me, even though he wasn't me and had never had any of my experiences or experiences, even much like my own I was now in a position of being a hypocrite if I didn't honor his experience of my experience. In an effort to be helpful, I had revealed the terrible secret. And I guess it made the man feel so scared and defensive that all he could do is to appropriate my whole experience as his, and then accuse me of starting the problem. My eyes were still rolled back in my head, which was somewhere on the floor so I couldn't see it, but I heard him say that he felt unseen. It is hard to even describe what it's like to have. Someone use your own revelation of suffering as a way to accuse you of being cruel. It doesn't even matter now because my head fell off and I'm dead now. But I must say. I really did not start it. No woman started it by the way I can say safely from the comfort of the great beyond that Patriarchy and Misogyny are neither the fault, nor the invention of women get out of here. Get Out, get out of my life with that and get the hell out of my death with it. Let me rest in peace and quiet. Where was I? Oh, yes, yes, yes, so then, even though my head was on the floor somewhere and the thoughts had spilled out some of them were trying to jump back to me, but in general it was a poor showing and the thoughts I had got a hold of didn't seem to really go with each other and I gave up. But just when I was about to surrender to the whole experience, and except that, my head had gotten away from me for good, I realized what was happening. I took it seriously and from my head on the floor. I screamed I. See that you are trying to kill me. I see it and then I saw the whole of the thing that had happened not just to me, but to so many people and I will. Honestly, it was so incredibly overwhelming. Overwhelming that I just stopped caring about what he thought and I went right ahead, and felt around, and finally found my head, and I cradle my own head in my arms, my nestled into my breasts, and my hand stroked my own brow, and comforted myself in pieces, I looked up my heart, and passed my former head space, and into the sky, and my mouth still had a voice, and it murmured to. My heart doesn't have to be like this. And then I died, and actually I have no idea what he did. He might still be talking so if you are alive out there. I'd advise you to try to keep your head. JENNY SLATE EVERYBODY What's the name of the Book Work and we buy it? Oh, the book is called little yards, and it's out through a little brown. That's the publisher you can buy it on their website or I would suggest you buy it in any independent bookstore that you might go to judging from the bazo conversation we had before. I would say support your local booksellers or yeah, just through the Little Brown website and Thanks! I absolutely can't wait to get that. That was really beaten of peace and I feel like. Does everyone relate to that? So I've never heard of put like that before, but. I feel like I. Feel like everyone can relate to. Them is beautiful. Our guest today and we have three are all exceptional woman Monica Belitsky has written for numerous TV series including I am the night and the leftovers, and has an overall deal with Apple TV she was nominated for an emmy with the fog team, and also shares to wgn nominations with her Fargo and Friday night lights colleagues. She has two features in Development Lana. Nordstrom is a Los Angeles based writer in two thousand and six, she formed an advocacy group called health, saying that creepy. Thank you. will let up. which represent students who were exposed to the World Trade Center cleanup after nine eleven, since then she has worked to raise awareness about issues surrounding access to health monitoring and treatment for nine eleven victims. Her efforts have been honored by the Manhattan. Borough president and featured in the New York Times economist and many many many other impressive places. She's written about these issues for both the half and the Guardian. Schnell? Miller I came into the public eye anonymously after she was sexually assaulted on the campus of Stanford. University in two thousand fifteen, the victim impact statement she wrote and read at her assailant sentencing hearing the following year went viral, being published online by Buzzfeed. Miller was referred to as emily doe in court documents, and in media reports in this very famous case until September two thousand nineteen, when she relinquished her anonymity and publish the bestselling memoir. No, my name, she's credited with sparking national discussion in the United, states about the treatment of sexual assault cases and victims by college campuses and court systems police welcome to the stage Monica. Let's Gaylord Law Nordstrom and Chanel. Take the mic out a few launch. So you've got a little bit freedom or you can sit within. A bug or you can. Seinfeld. It's up to you. So. Could you just introduce yourselves for the podcast? I'm Monica Blood Ski. I write for TV and movies and I'm an old friend of Deborah's. I'm Lila Nordstrom I'm nine eleven health advocate and writer and I ended up on this podcast because I wrote along to Deborah. My first ever podcast Fan e mail. In which I explained. Some of the Gender Dynamics of the health advocacy Biz and she invited me to be. Hello I'm Shannon Miller. I'm an artist and the author of no my name. Today, which took about credibility and Monica? That, she suggested by you and your writing an incredible screenplay about Malaysia, Stein, who was married to a famous man called Albert Einstein. Can you tell us a little bit about why you suggested credibility and about what the screenplays about? Several years ago I was looking for something to write and. I just written on parenthood for four seasons and I was looking for something that I could write for myself. You know that sort of my own. Project and I was browsing through the bookstore. Like remember when we used to go to a store, buy a book and not just get it instantly on a screen. And I came across the love letters between Albert Einstein and his first wife Melinda who had never heard of four, and they looked really adorable on the cover, and their letters were so sweet, and and just really intoxicating the way they corresponded and everything because they didn't have taxed. and. Anyway so as I was reading those letters, I was sort of blown away by some of the things. I read and I'm GonNa. Read a couple of things. If that's okay, yes, please okay. In August eighteen, ninety nine Albert wrote to me. I find the work. We do together very good healing and also easier. In one, thousand, nine, hundred, her best friend, rope mismatch, and Mister Einstein have now finished their written examinations, they their topics together, but Mister Einstein relinquish the nicer one to miss marriage. And then in September, nineteen hundred votes and Malaysia, I look forward to resume our newcomb and work. You must now continue with your research. How proud I will be to have a doctor for my spouse when all only an ordinary man. So as I was reading letters I started to see these. References to our work and US and we and I was. Like Wow, this is blowing my mind. What does this mean so? I spent like three years just completely obsessed with their story and researching Ed and I even went to. Zirk and I followed like every address I saw on their letters I went to sort of. Follow their footsteps and. What ended up, happening was I wrote the screenplay and really started to believe that it's very possible that she's on credited with the papers that he wrote. That are considered the thing that made him genius relatively. Yes and there's another paper. In the same year he had this year called the Miracle Year nine hundred thousand five, and so became very amusing to me that it was more likely to the physics establishment that a miracle happen rather than a woman. Chances on the gone sent a light. From the Little Mermaid Sorry Yeah Chances. Are that in the half of fish body? Rather than just brilliant, brilliant woman who was there with so you started to find all of this evidence that he had said our work and that kind of thing. Why is this not more widely either talked about or accepted? Even so, what happened was they went to college together she was the only woman has physics department, and they have this big exam which they had, and she failed one of the tests, and that meant she failed the whole thing. Her number wasn't high enough, so that was around nine, thousand, nine, hundred I believe in. That's when she and Einstein had told his family were together I'm. I'm in love with her. I want to be with her and his family. Especially, his mother completely rejected that idea. So, why didn't they come? His mother said that she was too old because she was older than him and also she Serbian. She was born with a congenital disability, so she limped. She was an ethnic minority. She was Faren so it could be any of those things. She was considered playing. You know her look so I think his mom wanted him to marry this girlfriend. He had at the time a similar time. who was like blonde wanted to be a housewife because Einstein was so hot. Actually. G. Actually was a little. Yes you. Look it up looking at. Yeah. I mean I. Don't know what your taste is, but but. He was objectively Alam like. Hardly wait to look this. I'm. Just hearing about how this one's. because. We think of old Einstein but I actually bit Churchill. You look at Church when he was younger. You know yeah. Well, that's the other thing. That's the other thing that surprised me is that I didn't know that the things that he's really really known for the thing that define Einstein with genius. He did at twenty six. He didn't do what the gray hair and the tongs sticking out. And that was this time period okay? So. He didn't do all of the things he did with the big hair and the tongue sticking out. There were times when his tongue was in his head. So. Do, you think it is surely lack of credibility. Because she was a woman in science, there were hardly any women allowed it science then, and she managed to push away in, but why didn't they advocate for? Sorry so I didn't really finish that part so. Basically, she failed the test once he was like. Try it again, so she took it the next year, and she was three months pregnant with his baby. And they married and they weren't unmarried. Scandalous them and you know. Maybe that was around the time where she was starting to show, and the professors knew what was going on, and so we don't know like. Did she really fail the exam or there is I think this was a long time ago, but I remember there being a little note in one of their transcripts that said something about discipline and I was thinking like I wonder if they were disciplining her for. You know getting print forgetting. Right and my script I have seen where she needs to use the restroom. Because when I was pregnant, I had to pee like every five seconds and. There was no women's restroom at the university and House really hidden figures. Yeah, so she felt that exam and didn't get a degree then. They end up having a child. We don't know what happened to her. And then before Albert Einstein's father passed away, he gave his you can marry Maloka, and so they got married, and he sort of been such a kind of jerk tall professors. A job in university and she was actually the reason why he said you'll be a doctor and I'll be an ordinary man, because she was actually prime to work with this other professor, and he kind of saw her career going away where he could live with her being the. but it didn't work out because of the pregnancy anyway, so they end up getting married and they were working on four papers in college dissertation, These S in one, thousand, nine, hundred five. He had four papers that are the papers that he is considered to be the miracle man the Miracle Year that was the first relativity paper. The equals MC squared paper. No physicists in. In the entire history of the world has had as good of an output, a more revolutionary output in one year, then him, and so when I saw like will. They were working on four papers three years before she didn't get her degree. She didn't do anything with our papers and all of a sudden. They're married and he has four of the best papers of all time. You know. There is some doubt there, right. And then in the end when he was getting a divorce. With her, he promised her the money from the Nobel. Prize and that's how they settled the divorce, so that was all very compelling to me and That's what she accepted because they were debating. And then she said. If you give me the money for the Nobel Prize, I'll go away. And that sounds to me like what I would accept. If I knew that I couldn't actually get the Nobel Prize due to being a woman, a woman without a degree because I got knocked up by Albert Einstein, genius sperm. While I was in the middle of my college degree thinking, why don't fuck this guy and was amount of college is like you? He's such a genius so. And so she died without the recognition ray for anything, but your screenplays examining as far as you know how it could have happened, yeah, did you speak to any on experts? When you were talking about I, did My agency put me in touch with an Einstein expert and I didn't realize until I was in the middle of the conversation that he was actually one of the prime people who has argued against Malev Co authoring with. I was thinking like. Oh, I should get off the phone with this guy, because clearly, he's not going to help me, but actually I had three long conversations with him, and it really helped me for my arguments, because he was so strong and his, and so he would say something to me like you have no proof or whatever you know, and so I had to come up in my imagination with how could have happened? You know because a big thing that they'll say as well. She failed a math test. So how could she be good at math? And I don't know how you guys are, but I've certainly done badly on tests, and that doesn't mean like. I got a see writing my first semester in college. I'm a professional writer. Doesn't mean because you did badly on one test I. Suspect Amman is responsible for all your work. I'm just saying it doesn't add up. It doesn't add up. Yeah Yeah. Your husband is writing all of your screen. Yes, all. So the professor, you know he actually really helped me. Come up with some scenes actually because he would say you know like well. How did you fail the test and then I think well because she just had this huge row with his mother, and like the whole thing, and so it helped me kind of imagine it, but he also admitted to me his own bias, which is that he had had an affair with a woman who was a physicist and his department and he, he told me. Sorry sorry the. Expert. Shared with you. he will tell me things, Johnny. A So. So he said. What is his own buys about? He said this is so. He said. I kept coming back to the sentence where I. Don't know. If I read you that one, but it's basically like how happy and proud I will be when our work on relative motion comes to, it's wonderful. Time. In writing in writing so I said to the professor who is alive now. Woke, shouldn't we take Einstein at his word that he said our work, and he said his excuse was yeah, but see when you're in love your in the flush of love like you give the person you love more credit than. Than they would really deserve and I said in my experience. I've never really mad. A man who? Generously wants to give me more credit fans. And in fact, it's the opposite. I dated Sebastian folks and he wanted to give me credit for half of Birdsong. That's your novel. I read. Names on the cover. That's how good I am in bed. Yeah so when you fall in love, you know you just got a lot of credit for things. Ever in the history of the world has gone. You really good in bed. HAVE HALF MY Nobel fucking prize. That's what they do. They go look at my Nobel prize and suck my day. Sucking the Nobel Prize Dick here. Be Grateful. That's what they say I know. So his story was I fell in love with this woman in my department, I was mentoring her and I really thought she was kind of like Malevich's. She was brilliant. And then we sort of had are falling out, and I started to see that she was not as brilliant as i. once thought she was Oh really reading rejecting a lot. I said you know you're not the same people right like. Maybe woman you were with is or isn't a genius, but she's not malevolent. You're not saying you know all right. I'm not questioning how much she contributed that he didn't want to credit her with because she slept sleeping with him. I'm not saying that happened. That's. That's alleged. You know so. Who knows, but I just couldn't believe that. Her story was so discredited by someone who was admitting to me that he might have had this bias, but it's sort of been like well. That's open and shut now because I don't think so. Well, I'm very excited to see. The screenplay made into a movie liner you. At a school in the cleanup era during nine eleven. Can you tell us about no sure I was a student at a school called stuyvesant high school, which was about three blocks from the World Trade Center, we were there on nine eleven, but the major controversy surrounding stuyvesant was that we were also one of the first schools to return back to the neighborhood. During the cleanup we returned in early October on October ninth, so less than a month after the attacks and we were there through three months of fires about eight months of cleanup, they did not clean. Our school building didn't clean the vents in. In the school. They didn't replace the upholstering that theater in the whole time. They just sort of told us. No, no, no, don't worry. It's safe here. It's fine. We said it was fine. The EPA said it was fine and then two thousand three. The EPA admitted they lied about how safe the air was in lower Manhattan, they had known that on September eighteenth when they declared the air to breathe that they were exaggerating the truth, a bit on there was a lot of economic pressure to send people into the area at the time, and we kind of got swept up in that, so we basically. Went to school right next to the barge that they brought all the debris from ground zero two for eight months during the middle of the World Trade Center cleanup, and then we had to spend twenty years fighting for health care for it. How do you feel like you have become a voice of credibility for the victims? I think that really emerged in the last year, and it emerged for a very specific reason, which was I got kind of pushed to the front of this discussion, because for this last legislative around. We had to explain why this that's a compensation fund for victims needed to be extended for seventy years, so for years, members of the community had sort of been like the ugly step children of this conversation there are three to. To four times as many people who were impacted by the bad air in the community, as there are first responders, so it's a very expensive sounding problem and they in this last cycle finally sort of had to admit that there were children down there because they needed to explain why the funding to continue for seventy years as opposed to you know the thirty to forty. That would have satisfied the responder population because your senior. Year in high school there were twenty thousand public school children in the contaminated zone, so there were students that spanned every age range, but Was the oldest minor victim or in the class of the oldest victims who were minors at the time, so you had some heft because you had age on rate in terms of gender. How do you feel being spokesperson for something like this? One of the Weird Dynamics about this conversation is that most of the responder advocates are male and most of the survivor advocates, and that's the term used to describe the community are female. Probably if you've heard about this issue at all in the media, it's been all about first responders. You've probably heard John Stewart talking about first responders. When he testified before Congress I also testified at that hearing, but the women went first, and the men closed, and so we literally got seeded by gender and the media sort of was meant to pick up. The end of that was meant that was supposed to be the compelling part with the fact that I got all the questions, and the you know in the room and the fact that people were really engaged in the survivor story in the room, never really got portrayed to everyone else, so there's sort of a an aspect where we kind of. Of require the responders to and tell our story for us, because they're the people that can actually get the word out and have the credibility to walk into congressional offices and say like kids were down there, and that's unacceptable, but a lot of the time I've spent a lot of the last fifteen years, essentially like lobbying first responders in the hallways of Congress so that when we walk into a meeting together, they will make sure to retell my story after I've told it so that the staffer will know that it was a story worth hearing. Wa-. People really didn't like that one. But so a mom repeats. Funny. How like overt a lot of this misogyny on the hill is I have walked into many rooms where I've been visible advocate on this issue for fifteen years that I've walked into so many rooms where politicians who when I was twenty two and I started speaking out about this offered jobs, and we're very excited to see me. Speak at their press. Conferences has like forgotten to shake my hand in the you know in a row of responders because I just don't look like what people think. The face of this issue is supposed to look like, but I think a lot of that has to do with who we consider to. Credible victims who we consider to be valuable victims. I don't think that communities are considered valuable victims. I think that without first responders to ride. The coattails of in this community would have got nothing and that's. We're still talking about a fairly wealthy. You know very white community in Lower Manhattan. I mean what our kids in flint supposed to without first responders. Certainly, there's not. Not even someone who has the level of credibility that I was able to have to go in. You know having gone to fancy schools and having the education seeming like a credible person in that context, we just sort of like we have a very kind of bias sense of who has enough value to extend services to, and we don't offer a lot of these services. Section of one of the reasons you, an advocate was listened to was whiteness was raised, because they don't save black and Brown and Asian people who were in that same neighborhood who would not listen to over I mean I think one of the reasons that all of all of the survivor advocates who got airtime at all were from this one specific sector of the community and I didn't live in the community I only went to school in the community, but I went to a high school. That was vastly majority Asian in. A neighborhood that was right next to Chinatown, and you do not hear that community discussed in this issue at all. You do not hear the communities of color that are located in the district disgust at all. They have had to fight tooth and nail just to make sure that the boundaries don't exclude them entirely, but I at least had the ability to kind of walk into the room and be taken seriously enough that I was A. Credible child victim. That's I mean it's so awful that that's the case. It's just so tragic and awful, but a lot of times I. Hear people saying I. Don't have white privilege because I what permits because of this? Like privileges, a hot potato to be dropped like it's a time bomb, but privileges a power privileges a wonderful thing to have. It's a steamroller. We can get things out of the way the question is. Are you just getting things out of the way for you and people like you or getting things out of the way for other people? If you have any privilege at all, and we generally all have some privilege whether it's we didn't come here in a wheelchair, or we're straight, or we're gender, conforming or whatever if you have any privilege at all, use it to move stuff out of the way. Don't like. The Caucasian that you have, you can lift something out of the way for somebody who isn't going to be heard and bring them into the conversation. Then absolutely do it. Is there anything we can do to help you? At this point, the most important thing that we can do is a make sure that if you have any nine eleven, survivors in your life that they're aware that there are federal health services available to them, but also the big issue here is that there's not a lot of basic healthcare protections in American society. We don't have any kind of national health plan that protects people that were in my situation as a matter of course of cool, and that would be socialist. Be Someone Modulus and the one thing that you can do for every class of disaster victim advocate for policies that increase access to healthcare that is beneficial to kids who have been in school shootings that is beneficial to kids who live in flint that is beneficial to anyone who has experienced an act of mass, violence or environmental disaster. The one thing that they need in the aftermath of that is a continuous access to care and that's not something we provide. So we need to advocate. Presenting Saddam! Can I ask you a Chanel Mila to tell us a little bit about your story, and this is a feminist podcast, so I'm only going to say these two words once that I'm never gonNA say them again. Brock Turner Dumb 'cause. I just want to contextualize this story for people who have heard those words and now take it away in your own words. And graduated from College in Twenty Fourteen and I moved home to live with my parents in Palo Alto, and I was working at a startup and one weekend. My younger sister came home and said. Let's go to this party at Sanford with lots of friends at Stanford. It's practically in our backyard, so we go to this party. It's so Janke endangered. There's like juice dispensers, and I'm like slapping them and I make this juice called dingle berry juice. And I'm distributing. This is not an alcoholic. Then I found smirnoff in. That was very alcoholic and consumed. Go outside to P comeback eighteen. Seen. I woke up in a hospital. I had pine needles in my hair. And they said you know we have reason to believe. You've been sexually assaulted. I, said a thank you. I'd like to go home and they said well. You need to get a rape kit done I, said okay fine, so undergo this like multi-hour invasive, process. And at the end the detective comes and I say you know what's going on. And he said someone had been acting Hinky. That's the word you used around you. And he had been chased off and tackled, and he has been arrested. And so my impression was that there had been a strange man at this party. Who is now in jail? And so I thought Oh. That's very odd, but I feel very grateful to be released, and I go home and ten days. Pass and I don't hear anything. And then I'm at work one day just like typing away and I see a headline and read about how I've been found. Half naked behind a dumpster being humped by this man before he ran away. and. Like he literally ran away like he was humping me and then said like piece by. Out and I thought Oh. That's like that means guilty, but instead. I had to undergo this like. Long, criminal process that took a year and a half and. resulted in him serving three months in jail for three felonies. And, then after that I spent the next three years writing a book, and that just popped out, and then I'm here. This books called my name. Time. We knew his name and we did not know yours. What kind of feminist stirrings inside of you made you want us to know your name but I think the primary reason for anonymity is safety and privacy, but I think long term. Your sense of self becomes very depleted. It can be very damaging to be that. To not be fully known, and we all deserve to live authentically I shouldn't be the one having to conceal this story and I also thank you. Very suffocating to imagine spinning the rest of my life inside because I was scared. And it's still scary, but I deserve the right to connect with people and meet with people in person and I have a nine. and. They deserve to know me to. You because you encouraged me to where my little blue bow around my neck sheep! Cute. Dressing rooms with women in them are amazing. Is there. It's a very lovely thing not to minimize it like very lovely to get to meet all of these ladies and of do such different things, but there is that push to live authentically, which is so hard. And so many people just don't do it because I think they're paying or anything that especially for women like presents, as like heavy or ugly, is just not accepted. As something that can be put into the center of where we all live, but it is part of who most of us are you know whatever our pains are, but anyway I feel really privileged to be sitting up here. Even though I'm the clown. Your piece was I'm sure very resident for all of the guests. What can you tell us a little bit about what your book is about and what you needed to say within it? A lot of people come to me and say oh. I I wish I had been more courageous or reported, and I always say it's not about your courage, and there's so many obstacles along the way something that I thought was very clear. Cut ended up being extremely long, drawn and emotionally dramatizing. How could you expect yourself to undergo something like that? And I had resources and support at every step of the way I had males. Testifying on my behalf, who had literally witnessed what had happened and it still excruciating, so if you carry that kind of I should have done more. No, we need to be doing more for you and you need to know that and be proud of yourself. For doing whatever you need to do at that time to survive, because that's what you're doing. Credibility was a real issue in this case because he was a stanford student and his credentials, his credentials were brought to the fore, and therefore his punishment was. Reasonable, really when you think about what would have happened to somebody who didn't have ten pot of credibility of an Ivy League college and of Sanford Avenue, but a coolant. His Whiteness, you can imagine how different that would have been. If that were a black man, his family connections how much! Do. You feel like that sort of head to head. Credibility is an issue in terms of gender crime. We talk a lot about due process for the perpetrator. We say he's innocent. Until proven guilty, we give him the benefit of the doubt, so then I think we'll wear due process for the victim because often. We presume that she is lying until she can prove she's telling the truth. So. We are required to believe that he is innocent. We should also be required to believe she's telling the truth until proved otherwise. Just thought resonates with you Lila. Because it's a similar thing, it's a legal battle your survivor. You're dealing with victims. Some of whom didn't survive. Do you feel like that issue of credibility is always there inasmuch as are you putting it on telling the truth? Would you have had this problem anyway? Yeah I mean I think definitely anytime that and this is I think in part because we we have a system that kind of requires us in the area that I was fighting to kind of compete in cage match dial for limited resources, and so a lot of the time the question was not. Does anyone believe this has happened? Who was down there? The question was sort of in telling this story. How can I tell the story in a way that makes clear that I'm not. Not Exaggerating it, it sounded so fantastic and ridiculous people that a bunch of kids would be put in such a dangerous situation by the federal government that a lot of the time people kind of dismissed. It immediately is out of hand. We had a little bit of trouble kind of overcoming that initial disbelief because we didn't expect to find it in this case, this wasn't a situation where we thought we would face the kind of resistance that we face to getting US help it was. was a little bit shocking. The way that it came in wave after wave after wave, we kept having to go back every five years and ask again for more help and more money, and it never seemed to be like the story was enough so actually not dissimilar to Chanel being I you somehow complicit. Are you somehow to blame? What did you drink? What did you wear? The two pieces of the law that are sort of fighting each other I mean obviously everybody deserves a fair. Fair trial and we WANNA. Live in a society where everybody deserves a fair trial, but as you say if the victims unilaterally not believed because she's what which we never have with housebreaking or anything like that that it that is specific agenda, specifically about violence towards women. That were she asking for some way or has she made it up as she answers? If someone says Oh my God my came home, the door was kicked. Open television is gone. Nobody goes. Did you do that yourself? John. Jimmy they do that. Because of how much weed I smoke stock. Like tichy? Just leave this and thank you broken into. It, you just take your television outside to watch it because you thought that would be pretty. There was nowhere to plug it and you were like. Why am I outside? And then you walk somewhere else left the front door open. I've been robbed right yeah. So it can happen, guys and that's. Just always splash. If you think if we broken into, just check, do is make a lot of how. Are you and did you take your television for walk? Doctor would've happened. What am I hard boiled eggs for forty eight minutes. Voted that will happen. That will happen will happen. Monarchy you've talked about credibility in a way that you summed it up in a way that I've I've not heard before, and I think it was brilliant. Can you replicate that now? It's hard to put crush on. I just had this notion. That credibility is like the Kryptonite for abuse, because for abuse to take place, the abuser has to be able to take advantage of a lack of credibility, so there's an imbalance in gender credibility in our society, so like studies have shown like a man and woman same job demand will be taken more seriously, saying the exact same thing as a woman, you know there's racial credibility that I kind of equate with this notion of white privilege. That phrase has a lot of like people can feel very defensive about that phrase so whenever I see it. I replace it with credibility because I. feel that in the same situation as someone who's brown versus someone who's white, that white person will have more credibility, and that's the privilege, so they can be struggling to pay their bills, and not have you know class, privilege or something like that? But if there's something at home depot and it was stolen, and it's like well, you or that person that person is going to have because of the color of their skin, a level of credibility that someone brown black is not going to have. So, there's a sort of question to ask yourself. Do Apple credibility in this situation because of my race, because of my gender because of finances, my finances, my education, my accent. Might this accent only works in this country have more credibility here I've no extra credibility. Although some people would say I do because if regional accent in the UK. Absolutely certain regional accents why people go? Yeah Way! Will you let critically? or where do you have it? And where do you have a look for look for you have extra credibility and use it. We've gotTA stop looking for privilege. You have looked for a way to have credibility in. How can you use it to fight the fight? Because this is time we need to find the find. Credibility I have now from applause. This is a very American thing. You guys have applauded so many times. Lonzo none of this would have gotten applause. They WANNA. Hear their hands on pot. It would have a in London gentle nod of recognition we've been. You'll hear US notes on the PODCAST. Thank you so much to everyone who's contributing via Patreon? We had our second monthly zoom hang out last week for our top patrons, and we're doing a special. Hang out for patrons on the second of July. At eight PM London time places a limited on. That's lookout for message coming via Patrie very soon, and we have neumarkt coming, which will be exclusive to Patriot supporters for the first two weeks. I'm also on the cameo up where I can make videos for friends and relatives. And one hundred percent of the feet goes to choose love so far we've made four and a half. Thousand Donors for cheese loves so thank you to everybody who has booked a cameo video. And finally my book is available as a Book and E, book or Audio Book. Wherever you buy those things. It's called the guilty feminist, and if you'd like sport me, but not supporting patron, please check that out and now back to the cost. Can I ask? Has Anybody come here to say something? They haven't said anything else you want to say I don't want anyone to leave him. The haven't left everything on the table. Please vote. Strictly related to what I came here for, but places important, and can is at vote well. Think about you're going to vote for. Now, we're not here to tell you how to vote, but definitely don't vote for trump. One, VISA card the podcast. Happen Schnell? Is there anything else you want to say? I just say a lot of people may dismiss your story enough for mean court did say you have a little hole in your memory, so shut up and I, said no not shut up, and I'm going to write a whole book instead. Pun Pun there yeah. Hey. You can. You can pop sorry from stifle Japan. Stifled the applause let it out. Americans let it out. So, there's a hole in your i. mean the thing is. Memories have holes in them. Actually we doesn't make your story less legitimate right so you should just stand by your truth. Don't question your truth just because it's fragmented or emotional, or whatever still yours, so you don't. Monica anything else. You want to get off your chest while you're here. Know one thing I was curious. Because of the stories we're telling and and the credibility thing I'm just curious. How many people out there have felt that? If they were in their family or work where they have had an idea or something, and not gotten credit for it, or the crowd was taken, or somebody else said it was their idea, because I just think that notion in that story of Einstein is still so relevant. I think that. Just, thinking about what Snell's been through and everything, it's just like. Would you do with the anger you know? What do you do with the feeling of you know how much we have to fight for credibility and fight for telling our stories, and not having them taken by other people and them getting credit for it and stuff, so I'm just curious, so let's off the audience the way we tend to do. Do It at the guilt. Affirmative is everyone closes their eyes, and then if you've ever felt that credit has been roped from you taken on, someone's just taking credit and you haven't had an opportunity to get that credit for anything. Just go and the reason we arises, because then it doesn't expose anyone, and if you're sitting next to the person who stole the credit. They weren't know if you're being another. Ready one-two-three if you have. If you haven't. Only men. The lower. It was either that or someone was just really enjoying it. Might! Ship Me Horny about? A. Room ideas. Maybe we could do the same thing for credibility like if you're in a situation where. You were wasn't enough, so the question is. Have you ever felt you've lacked credibility because of something at your entity, just say no. If. You feel you haven't Satan out. I was mad again. If you're a mom and you feel like. Credibility is not an issue for you could say. Okay. Can you say mcgann if you're white? You need that. That's coming though, but listen you guys great soup up. If you are white straight man, who was not disabled and you feel you have lack credibility because of some essential part of your identity. Could you go now? What was it for? Just. Age Too young to answer. To Young, how young were you at the time? Okay, we won't delve any further, but that's interesting. Because sometimes children are not believed about important things well also like my husband and I think. He's all of those things, but he was a refugee, and so that is another situation where I'm at in displaced to a lot of me when I say. Displaced, because I live with refugee and I understand the lack of credibility that you end up with, because you can get criminals going over any border or just random situations where none of us would be criminalized, and you've done nothing wrong ever, or you've done come through trauma anyway. That's not a fun way to end so is there anything anyone else wants to ask anybody else on this panel? As well backstage? I asked Jenny how she pitched her book and I thought that was so interesting, and I was curious Chanel with you as well. Did you pitch your book or some? Nate called in was like a mere. Agents get. They. I'm your HR I. Represent you and you go sure. She's like I made a book proposal. As I, go I didn't even know writing a book and so. So then I went home. She was like it's Ju- Monday. Shit. I guess what had plans for the weekend on anymore. My agent just said she needs pages. And then he went on. There still but a woman. Yeah. Okay all right? That's how you get a Book Tale Jenny. Yes, is there anything else you want to say? Before we finish anything else? You need to get off your chest now, I? Don't think so. said a lot of stuff tonight. Already regretting. We all how to get out of jury duty now. Yeah, that's right here. That's. That's a bad great billy unpatriotic. In a fit state to jury duty because you just said you you with smoking too much parts. Yeah. I mean there's no way I could decide. Who did what including myself? So let's just quickly around Chanel. Where do we follow you? And where do we find your book? INSTAGRAM Bookstore! To Saudi instrument I'm your Chanel Miller? No, my name or one way and go to a bookstore that pays its tax and pick up a copy of that book immediately. Can I ask You Lila? Where should we follow you and can we buy your book? You can a book next year when it comes out when you've written whenever. The first draft is due in a week from today. What are you doing? I know if I leave definitely not. And I most definitely already have a first roster. I was GONNA. Say He's. Done. I. Don't want to hear from you ever. You've written book ahead of deadline. You everything on deadline. I have my. That's the stuyvesant curse that you. Have to quit. Would you can follow me on twitter and Instagram at Lila and Chelsea and I. also do a podcast about electoral politics with my best friend. We know we're really wonky and we know too much about it. It's called brain trust live, and it's also available on the interwebs Great Monica Lewinsky. What can we do for you? How can we follow you? How can we find? You don't have to do anything for me. You dedicate your book partly to me so I. Did that was very special? At Monica Ski on twitter. Monica, Blake on twitter and You're currently setting your movie up with Franklin Leonard from the blacklist. So, if any movie producers want to get involved, come on board I feel like the women of the world are going to go down to the box office. An eats the box of us. You will definitely make money if you make this movie and that's what you're interested in I know that because I've been to la before. You don't probably if you're a film producer, you may not give a fuck about this story. It doesn't matter. It's going to make money. It's GonNa. Win You awards. I think that's what's clear, so you know, and if you do care because you're a feminist film producer than you are even more welcome to make money from this. I should say it's called. Like E. Equals, MC squared. Oh that's good jobs. Equals. I'm sold. Can I put money into this? One hundred pounds. Jenny slate. Yes, what can we watch? Where can we follow? What can we do? Can we read? You can watch my special on Netflix. It's called Stage Fray Saugus. You guys saga. And yet and you can buy my book. It's there's an audio book and a physical copy of the book in Bookstores so go buy that book and a bunch of stuff. Go to. Hi, I'm be immortal. It's absolutely fantastic. Thank you to everyone here at the. Nation who made this possible? Very good friend of mine somebody who I love working with, who, in fact introduced me to nation Shipborne Barkman is in the audience tonight. Please have a huge ram of applause four Chanel. Syrup! Happiness. Very special guests. From Monaco landscape reporting that was. Speech was football coach. Once. You've. Everyone will share. As! It's all of you for listening for more information about this represents. Show. This has been an absolutely amazing till you've been a wonderful, I'll stop La really happen brilliant. We've been. The guilty feminist nights. I I like just choose freaked out to speculate on the Yeah I. Feel like although this microphone is only connected to like this. Whatever thing is connected to that? It's probably being listened to also podcast. I mean we're being listened to. Yeah Yeah it's. Yeah listen to but. Thank you very much again to the wonderful Kobo Dot Com, your local digital bookshop offering e, books, audiobooks and e-readers. What are you gonNA buy great big old pile of feminist e books right now.

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214. Satire with Geraldine Hickey, Kate McLennan, Clare Wright and Kristine Ziwicka

The Guilty Feminist

1:12:25 hr | 3 months ago

214. Satire with Geraldine Hickey, Kate McLennan, Clare Wright and Kristine Ziwicka

"I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners on who's unseated land we are meeting today. The Werner g people of the COODINATION I pay my respect to their continued fight for sovereignty and self determination and acknowledged that the settlers we have and continue to benefit from the of land culture and lines. I acknowledge that treaty talks the state of Victoria in Australia have not begun and pay my respect to elders passed, and then in the room it with us today. Thank you. On methodist but the other day when my partner and I went for breakfast has arrived and there was just a tiny portion of ever Cata is she ordered it. And we both agreed that it wasn't enough and I said, you should totally say something gone take it back each site something and she did and they agreed that it was tawny and over some more But if if it was made the got the over Kata or would know said anything. Order Vatan, and then giving them a tape. I'm a feminist bont one here in Melbourne. Yeah. I. Am currently sharing a flat. With amazing protests in Grace Petri. Who is touring with this with the goes feminist you'll be seeing her later this evening and. Today Grayson she's going to go to the beach and I said I was going to work on a script feminist script that I was working on. And I was working on I absolutely was working on and I think that needs to be here. I was. But then you know when you take a break and to get a coffee, just check my phone, which was the other room which I have to leave it in another way more than no work will be done. So I'll just see any messages while the kettles boiling. Like literally in our later, I'm sitting there with my second, Cup of coffee in an instagram hole and when I heard grace coming in I was out shit I meant to reworking and through the phone down and pick my laptop. Working. She's like my mom or my boss, but it just looked just felt like the bad feminist Mitch script and she's GonNa come in and my on my phone grace I didn't tell you this I'm sorry. Did you suspect that? I've done that could have gotten away with it. I'm feminist. But when I was at walking my dog on a shared pathway, this morning I heard a bicycle Ding behind me. So a stood to the side and the man on the botched kept digging and saying yet behind behind. Behind. And then as he wrote party went thanks my and then went off. Sorry Lady. And what I said next was not very lady luck. Did you say. I'm a feminist Bart. Everyone on the Internet and so many of my friends seem to be so massively into Timothy me. And one of my friends. One of my friends that I isn't he just the most. Mom. In, the whole of the world that moment and I was like. I honestly look at him and feel I should breastfeed him. I. It's not wrong. I will sure. If it was a feminist feeling an anti-feminist feeling, it felt like both at the same time. But if Timothy if you're listening and I'm sure you do listen to the show. I mean I know I'm not that many degrees of separation away from Timothy Shana I know some people involved in the women and and I'm sure that they probably say. You've probably the most connections in this room. To Timothy. I don't know someone else might be his brother or something I'm not actually lactating at the moment nor have I ever lactated but I feel. A Little Timothy? I? Think it'd bring it on. Youtube won't be. Know Armagh feminist. But in the last on feminist, you all believe that I stood up for myself but in reality audience eight anything to the men on the. Oh. Why a high fiving that's not right. Is this did you have a spree skelly? Didn't even just. Might. Look why why did he have to go on? Sorry might also sorry lady. Walkout can be you might. My Mate Geraldine thanks. Might. That's. I am a feminist. Recently. Someone asked me to sign a copy of Virginia Woolf's one's own because they didn't have my book with them. So. I just signed. Dick hate. I'm a feminist, but I didn't write this book. And, I am going to sign it. Free written. The guilty feminist the bud in which explore on mobile goals first century from postseason insecurities undermine them. This is. Aide. Talking about. Sub, focus. Hello. Line them. Yeah. Glasses worn just one. Did you bring one for me? No no no, it's fine. No no no. I'm fine. I'm actually find some comedians Nike drink I mean famously bought. Some drink before the show but genuinely does work for them. It relaxes them a bit but I think it's my job to be a little bit faster than the audience. So it's ideal if you've had one and I haven't If I'm going to have one you have to have to. So as long as everyone's down for two drink minimum. assisted. You we'll share? It no problem. this too late to offer I've taken it. Now, I'm sorry that was a bit colonialism and. I'm so sorry I'm so sorry I am away with his accent calm. But. We have to remember I was raised on the Gold Coast and then. This about me just stealing you want you can have that war. No. No I would feel wrong. Just pay me for it. I'm going to draw want native time I'll give them a lifetime. You were natural leader Geraldine but put. If I am I think leader is someone that can walk confidently and quickly Dan, stays and That's something that our. Prices. Or just just in general as well. Lots of people caught up behind me trying stations. You One of those people that station doesn't have their cards ready to bid on the machine and then everyone's waiting behind that say. Not Elite Mikey Mikey Cadre, we talked about the Monkey Adid but now modern native market card why? Because you can get it on your fine You welcome everybody. Might that happen. Of just it's like an APP on your phone, and so I just kept my phone Mikey up now. It's the same is like having a critic cat on your phone like that Pie y thing and then so just tap it and then when it gets to set up so when it goes below ten bucks topped back up again does it have to think about it does it ever worry you though a? I often think that the only thing George will didn't see coming is that we would queue up for the cameras and we would fab ourselves tracked every. So I'm walking around with that and I, say, Oh, I've just got onto the train I've just gone off the train. I've just spent ten pounds on heroin I've just I'm telling the government where I listen. Okay. Right now that's one thing. But we do seem to be drifting right at a rate of not. We caught in a rip a right-wing grip and we're being dragged ride and Britain's the same way. America's the same way parts of Canada going the same way I? mean. How many of us are going to be able to fit on just into adorns paradise? Yeah. That's my question because. I just worry that we're letting ourselves in for the fascists inevitably inevitably takeover fight the fight. Bon. Definitely, have a have a gauguin have a go at fighting the fine i. mean that's what we're doing here Brian. Definitely having a go at fighting that fight but say we lose it. I mean all being arrested agitator. Getting to the fought will be easier with more APP. That's what they want you to sing. They wanted. Well, we can organize the resistance without, but then they can read everything we're doing on the resistance. Do you know what I mean like in the water had coding and the Second World War it was like Oh we can't crack the Germans code now it just all be like Hitler going what up Goebbels. Where we are and then goebbels going you knew who did and. They would. It would be. Fox. Are you ready Donald Cobain. So. We. Audit really do satire I have done it previously. So he's one from the vote. CAST. Your mind back to. One and every year was but you you know once I start. This is the letter that I write to Tony But Tony Abbott firstly say thank you. Thank you so much finally someone with vision and ability, and later sheep to take over the portfolio for women. Too. Long. It simply being women hiking care about the women and women can't take care of other women because we all know women intrinsically height of the women. I mean you know that first hand being the father of three daughters it takes a real man to take care of a real woman. Well all women. I'm writing to you as I thought you would be the best person to seek advice from giving you are Minister for Women's affairs. In the past few months of experience in regular period in a painful. Do you recommend on the floor of the share in the Fetal Position Gently whimpering for twenty minutes or taking four panadol and getting into bed without water bottle and eventually passing out from the pine. I'm also quite interested in your experience with thrush. told natural. Yogurt is a good remedy. But that just seems missy. Also do you find you get a of unwanted attention impossible funding of you private beats because you quite clearly, you must be asking for it by constantly wearing nothing but a pair speedo us. Okay clearly on joking. But I, feel it necessary to point. Me Said because quite clearly you're dumb count. The only way you can justify the Minister of Women's affairs is if there were women and then you'd have to change the title to the Minister of where all the women. Given your current cabin it's probably justified question. You'll sincerely. About voter response. Dude Euro Day Thank you for your letter. It's so nice. Win a moment such as yourself takes tarmac from. Being or the Creator. Or whatever hassle Judy's you doing to sit down and put pen to paper I'm very sorry to hear about you women problems. In regards to your regular period, I would recommend the first option of lying on the floor of the hour the abolishing of the cabin tech's as you can lie in the fetal position for a little longer with wearing how much it would cost. The money that you say means you can buy the Good Natural Yogurt and yes, it can be messy but you had clean it up. I unfortunately do not get enough attention away my speed. Hope my wife will reach out and touch me rather than look at me with. Solis is. I'm a very lonely man that just wants to be loved. Year. For physical touch from another human being. Even, just a handshake. But when are charted to fancy way with all the others that camera one hand always ends up alone. Just lock my heart. Get teased because of my biggies dumb by call me tiny done by Weber. We did have dumbo he's. To a land, we're headed palace. Farley become a not an all the onions I want your. So. I just want to talk a little bit about the landscape satire and how it can be useful. Sometimes, I wonder how much satire ruining Don's because satire and. Listeners. Very Young. So let's just break. Donald Satire is really parodying power in some way poking fun at power all through exaggerating. Showing the floors up in the powerful in order that other people can see that hey, this powerbase isn't something we should take very seriously or there's flaws here. I will always remember the words of the incredible alternative comedian in Britain. Monterey where he says in the eighties he and lovell tentative comedians spent a lot of time satirizing Margaret Thatcher. On he said we were successful in bringing down on. In the same way that the cabaret artists of Berlin were so successful in bringing down the Third Reich. I often think is really doing anything but I think more and more we're going to have to employ comedy to get people's attention but I think we might need to connect the dots a bit more than sometimes we do. and. I was really inspired by this Turkish comedian so. The podcast will know that I am very interested in Turkey partly for. Dia Political situation also, we had an amazing woman called it. A S are on the show. She was the head of Turkey. He Amnesty. International. She kept saying to everybody Ertegun is bringing in a police state. This is what's happening. It's going to be a police state and everyone kept saying, don't be so negative that energy out there come on it'll never happen in Turkey she can talk about the experience of her country going from a democracy to a police state she sort happened she was arrested as an agitator because she was running a human rights organization. But if you're running amnesty, you'll page you go to the office I know all the people who lots of people who work in Amnesty International London they're doing a job of work they definitely believe in, but it's a John. Thinks suddenly you could be arrested specifically because you're dealing and human rights is a very scary thing. It lesser is just a brilliant person because she makes very accessible. What she does is basically then do what I think of as tripadvisor reviews for every Turkish prison she was ever in. She basically goes well, the first place we were in the food was terrible, but they had good toilets I'd like to squat. But then the second place we went to the toilets were terrible. The food was terrible in the gods were mean I really don't have anything to say about it's just like a one star experience and then we went over here and she got taken into this high security prison was like seventy thousand people nearly all men but she was putting what they called. VIP Wing. Now you were a lot of close family combat only nuclear family and she didn't have any nuclear family so she wasn't allowed to have people come visit her the only person she can have her lawyer. And so she made her lawyer come once a week and it was one game of thrones was on his big game of thrones fan, and so she said, right you have to come once a week and you have to tell me blow by blow as if I'm watching it every single thing that happened game of thrones. So it's like I'm watching it because she said I might die in here and I really don't want to die not knowing what happens in game. So the lawyer would come in every week and go we open on a dragon. and. She said that the God who had to stand with his pissed off because she was saving it to watch with her husband. was just an hour of spoiling of just. Like come on so they're trying to watch quickly before this terrible visit and that made it very, very accessible to me because I suddenly a lot of times dam busted and a lot of times we they bring us in and they we listen to people who've got these terrible stories, but it seems very far away very disconnected and what it'll ESA talks it sounds like, oh, that's what it would be like if it happened in Australia, that's what it would be like if it happened in the UK or. Some people in this room would be in jail because they had agitated and It would be going. I really am very keen to know what happens at handmaid's tale. Does anyone know what's the new series is on a can't get that's would be asked. So because of that I asked Edo, what are the things that we can do you file countries are caught in this right wing title, Rip What can we do and she said, okay, there's three things you can do. First of all, you have to resist you have to resist all the time and she said you think going to a protest doesn't do anything like sometimes you think that was a day out for us but what did it do but she said you have to remember every government is looking out the window to see what kind of resistance they would get because there's more of us than there are of them. If they genuinely think you would overthrow them then they can't push any further and she said that's true of any government in any direction every government is seeing. How much can we push our own agenda? Maybe beyond things people voted for because this is what we believe in. She said, it could be a government you like but all governments are going to you can we can pass this can we can get this through? You couldn't get this through and if it's a right wing government, they are always looking out the window to see how much further right they can go. So you need to be visible and in their face and resisting. So she said never think that you writing to the government doesn't work never think protesting doesn't work everything online campaigns don't work they are looking in they are watching. The next thing she says you have to be resilient. because. If twenty thousand people come to the first March and fifteen thousand the next by the time it's the fifth March this four thousand people there they know your not serious. So again, it's not just about you going. It's about you recruiting that you have to influence your circle to understand how important this is you have to turn other people into advocates. And the third thing she said was she said it's the thing that the guilty feminist has and I would say other groups like awesome by no means we the only one, but it's something peculiar to the twenty first century that has sprung up through podcasts and other forms of media where the of taking control of the means of production. So people like me did not get any kind of mainstream platform because we weren't seen as interesting people who could make money for the policy and that shifted now because they see, oh, lots of people are interested in this but not lot lots of spaces now. Absolutely. Homegrown like this one where it's just people listening a going I'd be interested. I'd come to that. I passed on told my friend about that and she said what those spaces have is joy. And she said that's often what's left out and she says, often what makes people resisting the government also makes them good at resisting other people. So you can get groups that are like your resisting in the correct way and you're not quite radical enough to resist in this space. Now, we absolutely don't we need radical spaces and we need radical people and we need radical voices and we need radical groups. Go you're a big piece of marshmallow fuck off we absolutely do because what radical people are saying today we'll be Norman Twentieth. Unless we get caught in this terrible tied I was very inspired by the Turkish comedian. His name is Camille Mouse and he got arrested when he got out, he did something the most brilliant piece of satire ever heard. There was a song that again plays when they torture people. Like a pride in. Turkey. and. He bought the rights to it. So, they can never play again they used to play at their rallies and I company anymore since I not now. Just. Before we go on with the PODCAST, I wanted to play the short message for an amazing guilty famously SNA in. Syria. Who needs your help his removed to tell her story? So I am remote a feminist activists from Syria. At the age of twenty one. I took the first step towards my dream by volunteering with a feminist organization to read and translate feminist articles. Through courses, books and podcasts advocated the next two years of my life to enhancing the quality of activism. I even went as far as off. MIT'S UP IN GENDER studies courses as a result of this devoted work I founded the first Syrian. Platform in twenty eight, t it became one of the most popular local firms reaching more than five hundred K. people monthly with more than. Kate followers on our facebook page Since I was twenty one, I have never stopped logging on an individual basis Bach. Feminist issues on my facebook account now has over nine thousand followers. I also launched my Youtube Channel Two months ago I mainly discuss feminism, south development and society. So here is my situation I got accepted that York. In Canada to Study Gender and Mrs Studies I chose this program to improve my skills in this field and to study women's tuition in Syria today from an academy perspective this will improve my work at enable me to provide deep inside for feminism in Syria and the region. This program will help me to uplift the feminist movement in Syria in terms of academic research. Having theories on Academy Analysis S on Syrian society after the war as the necessity. This program will help to be barked off creating it unfortunately I haven't received or even to on a scholarship from York University says I received the admission letter on twenty first May and the deadline for the scholarship was the first of May. So I'm not the conversation of person who get up. I launched a Croat on can band to secure money for the UNI tuition fees and to be able to move to Canada. So anyone who is listening to me right now can be part of changing my life and helping me to achieve my dream to be a young feminist scholar. At a Syrian young woman was ready to her situation to pursue her dreams. Everything is away harder. A few that I am always running to follow up with this fast road. I have to work harder to feel that Syrian student living in Syria Gal I. also want to take a moment to say thank you to the guilty feminist podcast I'm to the greatest Deborrah for ability in me. I really need women to believe in me and Burton and need people who are listening to me right now to feel my passion and see my dream dry a new life story, a graded one despite the fact that I am along girl who came from a lower middle class family from Third World country that suffered for more. Please be part of writing and you live story for me unquote sort. Of Michael. Thank you for getting in touch with him and listeners. If you can help at all, go to go fund dot com forward slash help hyphen rim are WM hyphen to hyphen study, hyphen at Hyphen York Hyphen University. We'll see the Lincoln our show notes we really wish him all the best of luck we know how difficult it must be an as feminist want to rally round and empower her. And now back to the podcast. Our guest today is an award winning comedian writer and actor with an extensive background in both live and television comedy. In recent years, she's become known for her work as a CO creator of the Katrine show and get kraken. Please stay. On. Palm. Taxi. Goodness name. Thanks for asking me to come and do. A GIG that is six minutes from my house Oh they're always the best on they. They're always the best. An incentive. Yes. Absolutely. It's not the main reason he said yes. Okay. Great because we were looking for a stone's throw away Saturdays and your name came up on Google. A someone who could both satirize are how women are portrayed in the media and also walked to the GIG. And there was literally just you. You were the one that came out McCartney does live closer. Could please tell her. Did. Tell you that I was doing this she was. You. OUGHTA. Because we do everything together. So I was like, did you? And she goes Well, they probably just wanted me. Right that never happens. She always gets to do things Jesuit kids do acting things and I'm the actor Shiites acting. Also. Go to thermo mix, she gets the free things as well. Yeah, she got given a semi make somebody did an episode of the catering show about. Anything I've ever been given is a metamucil cooler bag. Wage in fairness should have gone to me. Because isn't that from the episode where I'm holding them. Do your ride. Scenes S. Chemist Brunswick just had Jodi and pulling things off the shelf and a chemist in the background and just going. And she does it very well. Do you know? Metro sexual that showed that I. If you haven't seen, it plays dudes on nine now. I got that role from that episodes. So they had watched it and watch me pulling things off the shelf and went yet. She's lead. So Kate just for our global listeners. Can you talk a bit about get cracking because it's such a funny piece of satire and there was a clip from it went viral. That I saw in the UK way you would you explain the show I? Yes. Sorry. It's Koga crack and it's a satirical morning show. So at harvests somewhere between the six to nine, I am breakfast showing those made morning breakfast show morning shows and it's hosted by myself and Kate McCartney playing these heightened versions of ourselves and sorry it kind of operates like it is a bit of lifestyle but then it's also just like there's panels and there's way cutting the traffic report or the weather reporter who we have either a political. Beck. Who? Won't judge. And bic chat. Is. Whether A. But Y with a reporter on Channel Nine hundred BIC WHO's this like stunning I think she is a model she modeled she's a model just she'll sell she sells close with a body. and. Sh- she lots of other things that. Way decided to cast Abbott Job Jot sorry. Is Adam Briggs. The RAPA sorry. Hey, is not he doesn't like bit. Judd at all. I'm talking to myself into a hole here I'm like pictured, get a suicide. Anyway. Sorry. It's this morning show and it's essentially season. One was kind of life for those of you in the audience who've seen it it's it started off as a show that kind of had a lot of women in spice where traditionally you didn't say. Women performing. Enroll see wouldn't normally say and doing things on screen that you wouldn't normally see. And? That then evolved essays into went on and we sort of we evolved as creative and Russia's and Charlotte runners, and so the brave kind of. For the second season of this show became a batch. Putting stories in people in that space that is normally such a hostile spacing on Australian TV and. Wanting to kind of blow the lid off that a little bit more and. Showing people I guess subverting normal what we normally see in those situations and the clip went viral like two men MOMS planning. Yet, the one I think the one that you're talking about that went viral in the UK. Was the hunt for clicks I think it was. In fact that that's what it was called but I think that's the one that got. His Jennifer Saunders retweeted it, which was like this twenty year kind of drain just like a pasta. Fifteen year old watching the wine episode of absolutely fabulous and realizing that's what I wanted to do the rest of my life by. Drink wine into comedy and then years later Jeffersonians sonus share video. So that was pretty cool. That clipped essentially sort of looked. That programs like sunrise. And the today show bringing these right wing talking heads. And quite often people who annoy. Nayyar Nazis like people with convictions and giving them the same airtime. Who has a university degree or not? Even just some two GB suck Yabus. Sorry. That clip was all about these three panelists that we had on. So. There was the three guests that sort of say who they are based on because. The different version lose. That's right. Sorry. Were based on no one that based on. Important and McCartney and I in that in that situation, play these two kind of TV munsters and it was sort of talking about the way that these people like Sam Mama teach in she and all these other breakfast. TV saw complicit in that spattered and so we were kind of leading up with that episode. I. Think that was like six of in the second season, we will lading up to a discussion. That we knew was coming in episode I WANNA. Episode. With Miranda. tapsell indicated Louis hosting that episode. You can you just explain again for a global? Yes. Miranda tips a little. To incredible, Aboriginal Act is McKay is an incredible playwright and Russia in heroin right? Miranda's also a writer. She's just released first feature film last year that she. Carrara. And produced they are to actresses that we worked with chew they pete in the first season of the show and as versions themselves again, these heightened versions of themselves, and so we've worked with them to create this final episode of the show and we kind of knew it was going to be the lost episode of the We. Were watching. Them. In the guest episode that they did with us in episode seven of the first series where they kind of hosted for a segment while we had to deal with this fictional storyline of our children and foot and mouth being in the Green Room and survey hoisted, and we're watching in the first season and we would like are there amazing. We should close the show with them in the final episode and and handed arbiter because it became. For us like moving into doing the second season, it was like, what do we want to do with this? What do we want site and so when we were writing the or work shopping, the second season of the sunrise had done this segment where premix swain. Had made these comments in just you know very lot. Just. Ten minutes segment about with aboriginal children should be removed from their families and she thought that perhaps, yes another stolen generation needed to happen as horrifying like horrifying statement. Cement the Amish teach kind of just allowed that to happen in running this segment and also made some statements of Harare with that segment that were completely inaccurate is well, and so that for us became this moment that we will like this is just a torrent and this world of morning television is apart and someone needs to hold these fuckers out and sorry. Point did they ever have anyone who was indigenous speak on the panel I mean They didn't have any they never do, but also I mean that's also quite complex as well because I think that even if the spice was. Like. It's a very hostile environment as well. It's not a structure that is welcoming. So I understand that even if sometimes, if people like q a night, for example, if people are asked to do what I understand, it's not always something that people want to do. So way thought, will we have this opportunity with this half hour episodes that we can have Miranda and the cab put for their perspective that Bang? Women in twenty nine teen and in the world in Australia and in the entertainment industry. We thought about what's the best way to do that and we thought rather than US kind of inviting them to do a guest spot we thought let's write it with men. Let's have the time to write this, and so we rochat with them. I've a period of black about six months. I suppose it was and it was incredibly collaborative and it was built sort of already on an existing relationship of trust. That we all had with each other and friendship as well and they came in and I mean the scripts were coming into production rating the scripts, and knowing the monologue at the end. If you've seen the episode, you're talking before Bat Julia Gillard getting she had speech that she might miss the number. One is the memorable environments. Some MARANDA indicate monologue at the end get cracking was number eight on that list. It was extraordinarily like the script was there. We'd worked on it, and then when we came into shoot it at the ABC, we started our Gra few days we shot the monologue throw in. We did three types of it and The first take was something that I will never figured. There was so much right age and so much hot and science match integrity to their performances. And so controlled as well and They. Did this long sequence for those of you who've seen it, and I'll explain a little bit for the listeners but it's an eight-minute sequence that he's done in one take and shot on multi cam where they both kind of get to the end of the Taylor with the situation that they've been put in and they start to ride and so Miranda. Stutz she makes this incredibly impassioned monologue and then starts tearing the setup as she's doing that Nick Cave and starts ripping off this. Artifice that she's being forced to wear throughout the year and starts making missing credibly impassioned play. How we can all exist together moving forward and then ask she's breaking down with his Miranda runs through the back, the shot holding and earn. That has. The ashes of MS edite inscribed on it, and it's the dight that episode of sunrise went to air and. Death of Australian television and She carries this end through the shot just guide. And smashes it through the window. And the timing of it just. Delightful. Incredible performances and their incredible monologues, the both of them performed but. They're really funny as well like it's got wrenching and so powerful but. is so funny in it as well as part of what makes it powerful is really compelling to watch. It's funny. It's some we can take it I. Think more audiences can take it if there's something funny about it and. Again it's joyful resistance. Yeah. It was the the amount of comments that we've had through. Have people come up to the time you talk about that episode and it's interesting though like McCartney I have done all sorts of things in that Shari like in that final episode, we do a show a quick glimpse of my vagina as heads coming out of it and. Bain this episodes where McCartney has talked. The situation that happens when Cotonou, but it was may talking where I'm having like as if my marks backstage talking to a doctor who's discovered that I've lifted Tampon in my vagina for weeks without realizing and like we've we've done lots of stuff that's really rose and like done saints where all we've done is berthed. shanked a lot of people but watching my response that like the shipment care and Miranda have caught. Because of that episode, it's just like really wow. Yeah. The privilege that we've had as white women to jest kind of side what we want whereas the minute those two like Nikkei's said that she's caught some form of use about that episode nearly every day since it went to twelve months ago like it's just. It's extraordinary. Andrew Baulch is essentially how to campaign against it. The Daily Telegraph has had paid. If you're listening especially a party that person's still popular here. And it's it's a real like FA McCartney and just sit back and just. Really understand how. The privilege that we've had and it has not been extended to people within our show. Have you ever noticed that your name's McLennan? McCartney Just, just I don't know if that, it'd passed you by. Someone said three months after. Fish pulled the catering shy and it was a cooking show and some said I never really kiss. Both called Kite Yes. That's right. The small things by? It that was really fascinating and it's really amazing. What can be done under the guise of light entertainment light at assignment could do a lot of heavy lifting never forget that and it has changed. My fact was number eight means it's changed. People's minds the GATTY and it's It's It's a high crowd isn't it? Still, we'll have changed people's minds definitely will it does work not if you've doing comedy or your singer-songwriter, those kind of things you can win people over and story wins people over absolutely story people over this book that I read when I was a kid, I was reading it to my kid recently it's is anyone read the, book? Tillich. The Frog and how did lake is this frog this greedy frog who drinks the water from the river and all I was thinking Barnaby Joyce when I think about it. Drinks water from the swamp, and he sucks up all the water I just. Rap. And all the animals like we need our water back to the lake and. They trying to the League how to get the water back in the end. One of the animals makes titillate laugh and to the League does a big laughing all the water comes out and like when I was reading that to my and I'm like, yeah that's where the ones who would China Mike laugh at I said that. Neymar down. Bison, can fill up as like. That's kind of. Feel like. This I remember doing a panel with someone who is an activist and feminist, and she was really Kinda quiet pissed off with the Comedians who are on the panel who's like you get to be funny and people get to lock you whereas I just copped ship from people and it was like. This is the thing that we're good and we could just be making jokes about you know. I'm happy. Doesn't want down the band chose I'm shit like that but we`re Let's US out path a good and I'm interested in that content about your husband not what? COPSES. Anyway, it's easy to do it myself. I'm a feminist. You know just even on twitter. I'm so full of right. I'm so angry and I have been so angry since I was about thirteen and like I'm probably seven actually just very angry and I always like anything that I wrote on twitter. That's angry if I can make it angry and funny it does so much better than anything that I read this just plain angry and anything that I say to my dad drives me crazy works I can get the message across if I'm being funny with him. So so as we go along, it's like This is what we feel. This is the right. This is why we're bringing up because we're angry about this. Now, how do we make up? Funny that's McCartney's and my job it's like, how do we make it? Funny. So next show is about climate change and it said in Antarctic hairnets about a penguin colony completely dying. Law that got Italian side. Funny and if you're thinking God, I'm not a funny person. It doesn't have to be we're talking about satire, but there's lots of other tools. Comedy may not be Your Bank but there may be other forms of persuasion what all you good. When have you had the best result of you know one of you be convinced And started just break it down and get good at those processes. I wrote a book called the feminist and. Mentioned and Sunday Sunday. But don't go on about it. It's embarrassing. But in a chapter in that were I break down some of the things that I've done about how I wrote them. So sort of a speech about being angry about brexit or is that typical speech about trump whatever I looked at how you can find your voice I, think the chopped about finding a voice to check out if you're looking for inspiration and once by my book from a bookshop that pays its tax can I make another book recommendation? Yes this is just nepotism. Mahia McCartney Skill Friends Sally Rog in Gripe. Book Code How powerful we are sally sort of headed up the get up campaign for marriage equality and it is wonderful book about activism that I feel like he could read at any level and it's put a real fire in my belly and it's really explained viz the people that you have a chance of pulling over to your side. It's like concentrate on those people and so it's a great book and if you are interested check out. Klay Right is an award-winning historian author broadcast public commentator, her bestselling second book you daughters of freedom. Follow the twenty thirteen, a prize winning the forgotten rebels recount Christine's of wicker who's been on our show before is a melbourne-based columnist and consultant. You will remember her from our episode on Weinstein Culture. Please welcome to the stage Dr Ryan Trustees and we got. I'm physically brought. Up that Dr. Because I've talked to I, know I've been from Bison. Women. Should crow about their achievements them down. I'm claiming that professor. And so I'm Fisher, a few street latrobe university not far from where we are recording this episode tonight and also a broadcaster. Do My podcast called archive fever, which is peak node people. It is it is about a love of research and archives. I'm Christina's, Waco? ZIVA and I've. Been saying your name wrongly all these years. Like there's no. I'm quite. A good friend of Christopher, she was at my wedding. Say. I see? Nothing whatever said? Christina but Ziva. Work on it yeah. Okay. You say your name and I'm sure you've got the pronunciation, right? But just based on years of using it. Yes I am a good friend of debt. She likes to call me a charter communist. So I started out as journalists many moons ago I used to work at MS magazine. Backman. Dinosaurs roamed the earth and magazines are still imprint. I've done a lot of campaigns I worked at the Human Rights Commission, and the UK for seven years banging on about the gender pay gap amongst other things, and now here in Australia I use my expertise to comment on gender equality and feminism and I write a regular comb, the age for women's agenda. Can Be found in the Guardian and the ABC rates. So. This is a this campaign doing his called the brim ceiling. Now, we did this of the UK and it was basically about the fact that only seven percent of statues commemorating people with chievements were of women and you might think Oh who cares about star she's the pump, but it's just subconsciously putting into the minds of women goals. Especially, girls that women haven't achieved anything of those seven percent of start shoes. It was something that most of them have either Queen Victoria. And a lot of them were naked nameless women. We didn't know that we're just sort of. Send names, names, fire fouls, nymphs with their tits out by fountain I listen not to start sharing any name that's. Great great news by all means. FROLIC that fountain. But. So. What's the situation Australia? Are you higher than seven percent? Unfortunately, we are much lower than seven percents. So the figure in Australia at the moment easy about three percent of statues and monuments are two women. In Melbourne with doing slightly better but not really because the statistic is. Percent of statues monuments in Melbourne are of non watt. Men. So that make. Yes. So in Australia, there are more statues of animals than there are of women presently. Yeah that's it. Pack Up. The moles of animals foul up and and and the. Statute and and the big prawn? Count the big Bro. You cannot count the big pro that's not a statue. Shouted on the fruit and vegetables yet. We talked about this in Brisbane. Yeah. It's it's a bizarre thing. But Bizarre and also polling, and so this is what Christine and I are doing is we're getting together. We've started a campaign called the monument of one's own, and we are aiming to smash the brown ceiling. And we're looking to for it's a campaign for statue equality basically. So that makes a nice a nice Hashtag. And so we're aiming to sit at the bar a little bit higher than three percent. And it's really interesting. The fact that you brought up Captain Cook and Captain Cook we're about to celebrate the two hundredth anniversary of that Blah Blah. And they're going to be, and if you listen globally, this is about colonization and invasion and the slaughter of indigenous people, which is not something to be celebrated and that to red light of statues about. However, our government is going to spend fifty million dollars on the commemoration of cooks visit to. Australia. Including a new statue of coke that to add to the already two hundred plus statues of. That already exists we. Hundred statues and they're now spending millions on most on more statues are funnily enough in the prime minister's electorate, the new statue is going to be so they're color coded spreadsheet term. Just checking. Right, next to the shooting range. Yes. So how do we bins changing rooms? So how can we help you with this brand selling campaign to fight back against ever more statues of a man who came in decimated first nation Australian. So we're going to be kicking off this campaign next month, which is National Women's history month in March, and we're GONNA be starting the campaign with operations, Zelda to build our first statue, and we were going to be looking at a fundraising campaign and I'll let Christine till you wise Zelda. is going to be the first candidate for a statue here in Melbourne. So seldom soprano who I hope many of you but some of you might not know exactly fifty years ago she chained herself to the Melbourne Commonwealth building to protest equal pay. She was a meat packer she was part of the meatpackers union and they were adjudicating equal pay case because at that time, it was still perfectly legal to pay men and women different rates and have men's rates, women's rights. So she chained herself to building and they cut her loose and ten days later she was back with friends and that's That year fifty years ago is the same year that the principle of equal pay for equal work was established in Australian Law Wise Zelda good question. We want to commemorate an honor, her chievements, and obviously the role that she played in the battle for equal pay. Fifty years on we still have a fourteen percent gender pay gap in this country and the workplace Gender Equality Agency predicts that at the current rate of change, it will be another fifty years before we have equal pay and I'm not quite sure you've had the honor of meeting Zelda. Zelda sadly passed away two years ago. Two years old a year before the fiftieth anniversary of her protest I. Don't think that she was sort of standing there and the chains going Oh. Yeah. No hope we get equal pay one, hundred years. I, think she had a stronger sense of urgency and I hope that by highlighting Zelda's protests, we will tap into that kind of fiery righteous energy. I think women should still be mad about the gender pay gap should be mad about the slow pace of change and for me and I've been campaigning the gender pay gap I. Am I should have a gender pay gap your podcast because I'm a nerd about it as Clara's about archives. I know it's exciting archives gender pay gap data. But if there is a beautiful thing about the gender pay gap as a figure is that it captures the myriad of injustices that women experience in the workplace. So if we address the gender pay gap, if we look at things like the cost of childcare, if we look at the undervaluing of women's work, if we look at the lack of flexibility, if we look at pregnancy discrimination one and two women, experienced pregnancy discrimination if we look at the gender pay gap and take action on it, we will be looking at a lot of things that affect women and we will make real change. Wonderful. How Are we get. What is the social media website? What can we do? We have a website we launched next month, and so you're the first to find out about it. Thank you for the warm welcome and I think. Www a monument of owns. The monument of one's own emolument on twitter is there anything we can do to get behind it? There will be not yet but if you're listening to this episode in a couple of months time, definitely be able to go on they'll be instagram page they'll be twitter they'll be the website, but it's also interactive campaign not only are we looking to raise money for these first statue but we are also have a page where we ask you to nominate a woman or gender-diverse person who you think is inspirational who has affected our city civic life L. Community Life and you would like to see honored with a monument of her own as well because you know you talked before about inclusive spices. And places where women feel comfortable and how cities are not designed for or by women, and one of the ways that we can see that is that we don't see cells reflected in the monuments and the naming of places around us, and and all of those things suggest belonging in they suggest identity and they suggest that we belong in this place as well as honoring the achievements in the ambitions and the ideas of those women. So it's about remembering as Christine said, the unfinished business of the campaigns and the resistance that those women started and this what is joyful resistance as well when I interviewed Zelda about chaining yourself to the Commonwealth building, she talked about it as being. Fun, and funnily enough in my last book was about the suffrage movement and all those suffrage. Isn't suffragettes in England and the Australian who came before them talked about that time in their lives as being the most passionate and fun times because they were out there working with other women towards giant and they talk about it almost as at like soldiers often talk about their time in the war. You know they were the worst of times but also. I mean. There was a lot of women who were traumatized criminals in terrible ways as well. Just to sort of you know yes of course any. Move, where we come together has thrilling and exciting moments as well. So. Get behind. One's own get involved follow all of these guys, Kate Geraldine, do you have anything else to plunk anything? You'd like us to come to. A couple of things. I'll be quick of God. Pins going to sell if you don't have any money just. It, but it's for my last year show where I did a joke a bad. Marriage equality. So and it's to the pin has the dates of when postal survey was and then the woods. Liz. We'd FAG it. Bit Of Satire The foyer from you. have. One, can we buy this in the foyer from you you can buy from? Ten. Empty rises, chocolate teen full of them. Ahead is still them any other way other than inputs person? No. Tricky yes. So and so if you don't have cash. Direct united into. Your choice of A. Eighteen allocco switchboard or something like that. A US based one is ones because they were the ones that were targeted a lot during the campaign and I didn't have a ranch vote. So I'd like to support them but give me caches will. Right. If you've got it whatever and. Demonstrating what a nice fortune item they make you attached to my lapel looks pretty hit. And I've got my new shy away tickets for now what a surprise and please watch metro sexual on non now so I can get another job that'd be great. Thank you. Can Listen to McCartney and I've started a terrible podcast that is. Not, a patch on this. I'm wrong answers but Nicosia and Miranda who I was talking about a lot also have a podcast called pretty for an aboriginal, which is fantastic. Listen to that and Nikkei's had written the lights of black comedy, which is now ran this film. Top End wedding is on jeans what Great. Get practice. You on schedule making credible who knows this is Patriots Album. Book intourist when I say that but I'm doing saying how We say how you doing you say, Hey, good breast. So I'm just going to say you some songs. Oh. Thank you. Very optimistic about. So actually I'm much a protest singer. Yeah no point. Is met with deathly silence that's great. Much specifically, I am a socialist feminist lesbian left wing British singer. Thank you very much and I have been doing that for about ten years I've been singing songs about social justice with the aim of trying to make the world a better place. And and I think we can all agree that I've been fucking unsuccessful so far. In that regard. So. Tell you this very very briefly in the in the House that I lived in before I moved house last year. I lived next door to. A very interesting. Eighty. One year old man at the time. US Eighty one. And the day that I moved into that to the House I met him on the street outside. and. I was complimenting his garden and he said all coming given see the house and I went into house and from the moment entities house he started talking and he didn't stop for an hour. And the whole time that he was talking a telling me all about the mandate with in that house for years and years and years who had died twenty years before it was so obvious to me that he just been house makes they just live together sonically. But it was so obvious to me from the way that he was talking about this man. That he had been in love with bright. And it really got me thinking about how differently my life would have gone. If I had been born in a different time basically or even just been born to different people. And then you know this house is kind of full of this deceased man's of all of his positions were still up everywhere and the way he's talking about him. He's so beautiful. I just couldn't stop thinking about it. So I felt like it the kind of unspoken nature of that relationship was like pouring out of the wings. No one homeowner this. Any school this house. This House. All the things he. Things that. Story. The products this morning off king. All. The the. This house is like a self. It's what is rights. Well. Is. Time. On so I am here with an. And the question is that fines above what is it? It's just somethin' icon. This thing soy. He's yard. Pitches on the move. If the sows a SU. You would say. This housing large. Ring. NC. Crawl Korean. At its handsome. GETS CLOGS Since. But he was formed. So hugs all. sinus. Houses like his legacy. All things he meant soon. And I try to avoid way. To keep the. If we. Would say. Say. What I would say A. Speeches all. It soon. Enough. Is like seven. Th. Street. All the things he built full made. Things either behind. Ladies Sewing. Products of his boy. All in. All the things he left the. Be Listening to the was. A live musical patient from the speech. showed. With A. Lower Place. Turn. Very much. It's true I sometimes say people on the Internet going, Oh, I was just thinking about buying some new lingerie can recommend any and I was thinking. was that about. I would ask a close circle of friends. Rig You and say. Where do I get my lingerie? Will recommend. Each hoping top bottom. Don't you want to you you like the whole set now. Just one or the other. I can't. It's big boobs in a way men's underwear. There is no matching. Huge. Thank you to all of our mazing patrons, sponsoring us at the smash, the Patriarchy level or above, and that's Valerie Mar Jonquil coys Sarah Brown, and Sarah Boom.

Kate McCartney Australia UK Miranda Syria Kate Geraldine Canada Christine twitter Turkey Timothy Shana Melbourne US Britain heroin Kate Nikkei Youtube Virginia Woolf reporter
216. Wellness with Kemah Bob and guests Jonelle Lewis, Dr Stacie CC Graham, Mia Togo

The Guilty Feminist

1:25:30 hr | 3 months ago

216. Wellness with Kemah Bob and guests Jonelle Lewis, Dr Stacie CC Graham, Mia Togo

"I'm a feminist but. I spent half an hour today looking at photos of Matthew Perry then and now. Because he is the friend who has changed the most he has changed the most I mean objectively, and now I would obviously absolutely never sought out pictures. All Old. Matthew Perry it's just not what I do. It's not my style. Okay, one of them. You're on the leaving land came. Bought something. INSTAGRAM. I was posted it not me and it was a stark difference between season one chandler now and I did I have to admit one time I was in New York and I was in the village in front of one of those big apartment blocks like in France and guess who was standing on the corner smoking a cigarette what Matthew Perry and I did at that point text a friend and say I feel like I mean the one where John got really really old and side he was such a vital young man and I became intrigued and fascinated and By his journey he's. Got Sucked out of him by a long-running TV series that isn't really that good. I mean it's like a sort of warm comforting duty friends. I understand but you were very young when it first came out. Were you born Ninety four are you were nob- years old when it came out? Came out in ninety four. So end lead like it yeah. No idea. Let it is listen Matthew Perry's been worse affected by friends than you told him saying. And I'm feminist but. Am Not. Cool. With anybody who doesn't like the Song Wop whether busy. Again As. The of set people who say the gun to fuck people say the women shouldn't talk that way as say get off this planet you leave the song is Great. It's a masterpiece committed genius amazing macaroni in the pot. Let us I just. Back, up a little bit now is this this is the new call diesel. Balance on. Biz On it, but is she? Okay sorry. I'm so sorry, I. If I'm harmony honest. I don't know about contemporary music all. Sing it. Can you please Philipson? Pay You have called whereas aspects. You hit the nail on the head deb. So it is by cody be featuring Manolis stallions. When you listen to, you realize that meg really really shines outstanding. She's also from Houston unless something I'll never stop talking about. Abuse and anti great musicians come out Houston em I'm only ever from Houston when it has to do with beyond CEO Indeed Meghan the stallion. Only. Just from General America or Lizzo who was raised their after the age of Tim that counts that counts. percent claiming that So the was amazing. It's just about a natural lubrication of the visine. You know. I. Was doing a workout stay and I just put on like one of those playlists and it was just noughties music and I love the million with sorry. I understand I understand you again you were very young. But. It was awful because all the men were lecherous and all the women were sorry. Every song that was on the playlist was like I'm sorry baby come back I'm sorry if I hurt you. Sorry. Our probably done something wrong would've done wrong but you're angry must be wrong I'm sorry it was amazing. It was looks so have to sell them from sorry women maybe it was just that playlist and whoever put it together but it did seem like women were very sorry in the in the know sites it's obviously the jets that was just a general DP I'm sure there were many many powerful women. The northeast. But this playlist did not tell a great story about the sexual politics of that time. Yeah. I do remember living through it and it wasn't as feminist as it is now by alone freaking shot well, the sexual politics of this time just involve. Dripping all over the place like a slug in. Here for. Eight. What? You posted a lot about the song and I I mean it's it's clearly a joke. It's an wet, ass. The White House. I'm so as a non a gramma person or an English person does anybody know hell asses used? It's like, yeah, you're a grown ass man. has intensified, but it's kind of a joke to use the. Right, before the P. Word, it says the his the ban walk on sale and just feels awkward before we've really gotten show could, and before the sun came out, you it now I'm liberated. I. Joke is. Intensified but yeah. Yeah I. Think they're just really funny things that it's like gravity boots and a coat. You know it's amazing. It's amazing while it's not if you're here for Kim about I'm here for you in there for I'm here for it. Thank you so much from a feminist, but if I could go back in time. In. Truth on rather meat may west. Than Emily Pankhurst because the night out you'd have with my West would be absolutely legendary. Cal Person, the Kelly Girl No. Some may west. You are too young for me West but so is everybody alive she's been dead for ages. My West said things like she was an actress and she was a wit but she was the person who said is that a gun in your pocket or you just happy to see me Nice. She also said men alike lowlying flaws Laham right and you can walk over them for years. The she said, there are no good girls gone wrong just bad girls found out. She said I don't know a lot about politics, but I can recognize a good policy man when I see one, that's that's a poly Halsey IAMs. She said rather be looked over and over looked. And she said I like two kinds of men, Americans and foreigners. and. She said. I've got a pussy. Yeah. Initially originated the. Google. I'm feminist but. When creepy man hit him in the grocery store the other day a by saying ended quote you have a nice body while Yep. So direct. Okay instead of telling them the F.. Off. Said what else? What did he say? He was just like, do you have a name and it was like, no, I. Don't have those freaked out outages literally like asthma here in my mask in the. Grocery store but I ain't GonNa Food I didn't come here to shop for you. Give, this man had no food he had no food. Why was he the grocery store their APPs for the kind of thing that he was trying to do in their? Did you recommend an APP to him did you say no I just Kinda like Skoda win, I was just like I just came from the fruit. Thanks. Mad I had a dislike scampered away. That was the other thing is, do you have a name as you know? I've never heard of a what now a nap on Phnom. GotTa go. I'm a feminist but today. A friend was posing. To me about whether or not she was going on a date or not because she couldn't tell. And I coined a Carrie Bradshaw. Moments so I couldn't have wondering. To social distancing main when now all in the friend zone. If. I. Don't have the Authority to do that. You gotta go. Okay. Well you now owned The show I'm GONNA. got. Yeezy. Goals. You Ain't good galls. That's Hilarious I'm so upset I know friends zone is not a feminist phrase and data's why it is in the I'm a feminist spot section. Some infamous. But when I was told today that I was being asked to be on TV twice in one week for the first model life. A great move for my career and just so many things. My first thought was allies have one good outset, and now I'm going to have to go put myself at Covid risk to go to the mall calm you bought something online. Not Not in time Deborah not in time it's fine I'm GonNa let Snooze Sneeze. May coffers cough on me to I can find what's on sale I don't care. Why do they gotTa do baby? The main thing I heard there is your on television twice this week. I'm so pumped is skin a recording little bit in a yet I'm just like what amd is like. What can you say what shows you're doing? So we can watch them. Yeah. illegal or something I'M GONNA do the stand up sketch show just GONNA come on after Love Island. Seems to. Be like. Can't believe that just got punt off ebbs and limited. Under that stick around. excited about that GONNA be on Johnson rouses new show Stand. Up Bits Amazon's like what and also I'm just like crap house targeting computers for the past three months now have to talk to people and. I'm excited batteries usually the there's not gonna be a makeup social distancing and I'm going to have to put clothes on my body, and these are the things that I'm concerned about the comedy will do itself. From a variety of bedrooms and kitchens via zoom, the spontaneity shop presents the guilty feminist with me to prompt. US. WHY GUESTS GOES I'm very special guest John L. Lewis. talked to stacy CC Graham Mia Togo talking about wellness. This is the guilty communist, the podcast in which for our goals, twenty-first-century feminists of the policies and insecurities which undermine. On that's why with me as Chemo, Bob and we are talking about wellness. Debra. You feel unwell man do you know what I am giving? It's twenty twenty and I've been in lockdown for the best part of six months. I am feeling extremely well partly because I think I've had a break from charging around much. Now, are you feeling well Kema yet oddly. Okay acknowledging the wider disaster of Hashtag Corona Virus Hashtag quarantine it's been really. Weird have so much time to reflect kind of recenter myself. So. I feel like my brain's gone through a bit of a journey. But in a weird way, it's in a better place than it has been like years in the past I don't know call me a psycho but I love a pandemic. I won't call you Asanka because that would not be inclusive language. Now, I'm going to introduce our guests who are coming up later just in case they wanna make noise chip-in do so often we have grace Patriot focus ben here as the house. Band. And they as I have said before operate like a little bit like the heck was on the muppets the two old men that sit in the box today on music we have am records rich. Hi, everyone. Thank you from me I'm delighted I don't know if you can be too old men the way that Grace Patriarchy ben can. Probably not you could probably just be one young woman and just to be very clear as Patriots of woman neither grace. Norfolk. They just they have that dynamic together. Brought my instruments, fix untested what and also we have three wonderful guest. He'll be tuning in later. One genetic Lewis Halogen L. I how are you? Hi I'm very well one is talked to stay C C C Graham Hallo Stacey. Hi Hi. And one. Is. Mia. ME A hi. Hi. Great to be here. Thank you. Later we'll come to you. But if you want to chip in and say anything, you are very, very welcome because you're only audience. So ironically, some voss some of us have really suffered through this in all sorts of ways, and but some of us are now coming to the point in. Lockdown all semi I think the reason we're feeling a bit better is because we've unlocked bit. So, we're able to find a connection, maybe go to a yoga class safely. We've been able to see a hairdresser. Reconnect, with a few friends even if it's like from six feet away across the garden. So we've been able to do some of those restorative things, but we are now benefiting from the rest of lockdown we're not charging back out to stand in loud pumps shouted each other. We're not expected to go to five meetings today. I think also undo gun like a facial rehab from heaven to like look at my own face so much I'm like do you know what I love it see that's interesting because I think we polarizing on so many things when this is over, we're GONNA come out with best friend's being totally polarized. So people that completely behave the same now going to behave very differently and one of the ways is I think in how we've responded to this zoom culture where have to look at my own face the whole time and Why do I have to look at my face the whole time I dialed standard. You can always hudsell baby she can decide do I wanNA yeah. Yeah I, do all the time and so you can decide, Hey, am I going to be a part of my face right now we're gonNA take a break from say I just need to take some breaks from my face because I got become quite in some ways like I'm more realistic about what I look like I think accepted the fact I do not look Audrey Hepburn. And Miss, the fantasy man do miss the fantasy. Who did you feel like? You looks like before I never thought like, Audrey, Hepburn. But sort of what I mean like you have an idea of how your faces because you manage it in the mirror a selfie. Talking the whole time and his sight Yukon live events denial anymore. I think a definitely thought like the like myself but just with like amazingly flawless skin and over the. Series of lockdown I think I've been hit with like stress in who knows what else and I've had this crazy breakout. The I've just had to like see every day and show people every day. I know that feeling I think some of us are coming out of this going this is how I look and it's fine I've seen it loads out and all coming out going. Oh I WANNA fix this or I want to change that and i. i WanNa wear a mask. Well Luckily, that's the law. When you shop firstly, you do not need to wear a mask for any reason other than health and safety. Your unbelievably beautiful and secondly, we should not don't weep. It's not an Oscar. Came against a compliment Adelie coast show. A bad things about myself than everyone says the opposite you here on a fishing expedition because I should've rods. I should wrong and. Clearly should have brought rods. I. Mean you're a stone Cold Fox spots affects also these ideas of beauty. This is not in the wellness category because today we're going to be talking about stuff like Yoga and meditation and the wellness industry if you will without guests. Yeah, we're going to be talking about how the wellness industry prophets. How that sometimes sold to us as feminism. Web Self Care starts and you know an industry that centers are rich white women ends et Cetera et Cetera et cetera that's very exciting. I'm also the. Practitioners and people who are doing great work in this areas deserve to be paid fairly for their work. Balanced Baby. Highly guilty from assists. Deborah here just letting you know we have a guilty FEM recording coming up which is live you can come to it. Now, we were delighted to be part of the new normal festival nothing to do with the instagram shell of the same name, and it has been such a success that they've extended it, and we're doing another recording on the thirty first of August seven thirty PM check out the feminists website for tickets and La. The Edinburgh Fringe Festival has been sadly canceled for twenty twenty. The shed in Bre fringe festival has just started streaming from the fourteenth of August. You can see an amazing line of Comedians, storytellers and theater including my award winning show. Debra Francaise White, rolls the dice about finding my birth mother. I would love you to see it because I haven't done it since I started doing the guilty feminist and it's very personal show to me. It's on Friday the fourth of September seven, thirty PM London time, and it will be live streamed. All proceeds from ticket sales will go towards financially supporting future, young emerging artists and creatives with grants to help them make it to end for the first time. Go to shed KNBR DOT COM for details and book from my show and a host of others. Also, we've got brand new much mugs, t shirts, etc. A guilty feminist dot com and all the proceeds go talk for good things. Now back to the PODCAST. So solid tell you about my little wellness challenge I did this week I knew we were meeting some wellness experts today. So I wanted to impress them. So I thought I'm going to do a little challenge so I did an APP. Because I. Not a meditators like I like doing yoga but I find meditation very. Boring. So. Didn't I while and I found my it's hard to let my brain turn off and I know I should do it. So I'm going to go and do some meditating and I went on the APP and it was I not making this up like at first of all, it was like someone talking over the sound of running water getting you to imagine something And then the water was running for a while. So I just fast forward a bit because I thought. Well, we're going to get back into a bit west who came from over blase. Running. No thing just more running water scrubbed a bit further. Just. Still running water I scrubbed. Not. People. Obviously. I'm not making some. Running Water it was not in the bathroom with water running adventurously ascribed right to the end, and then the lady was saying, did you enjoy that? Something she was. Thinking of these things wrong and I was like I wa I felt like at first I thought changed it and then I thought no, I think I'm just a high achiever. And the I was able to put ten minutes of meditation into two minutes microwave meditation. So That's GonNa be Maya. This. Is My. This is my big apple idea Going on this, you're going to get very rich and say, we'll see good things with the money. We're not horrifying capitalists who is just going to stash that. Via in Ireland although if we did, we could hear running water all the time This is my. From white might grave meditation people who cannot listen to running water for ten minutes while thinking of nothing. But then when I tried to get off, the APP kept saying do push notifications for meditation I was like what pushed should not be in hand. This is not that snow and every time somebody was to push me I'm like, no on any APP? No pushing I don't want moving popping up. No, I. Cancel because I didn't want pushes and then it said, do you want us to pushing and I was like canceled? Do you want us to shake capsule and then what is cancelling was the question and I had to say yes no, I don't want you to push me but about happened about five times that I was I got. Worked up when I write, it was my phone user error. I was pushing the wrong thing but it felt like it was being very pushy going you. Definitely dishes do want this you do want this. Men Do want like what does it mean but certainly, James Do you want me to remind you. Do you want me to pursue tell you what else we've got coming up we'll say you should meditate I was going here so I don't want that. But what I needed to say question was asking me again and I Were Up. Than ever before prochet and are. So I think on my bus of moral rights by going on the meditation up hundred percents will happen to you deb listening to like rain sounds China like soothe it up but it got to cut up in the names and I was getting a bit upset because I was like you know these artists need to demand more for themselves like why do all these song sound the same because I was listening to wet dreams of the full orest right but it sounded a lot like tears of the city and I was like there needs to be more variation. There were different forest wet dreams of the full at all whole down to. What? Creams that's. How does? Lewis. I don't make the songs I just listened to him. It was outrageous until you have tears of the city and what dreams of the forest but the transition between them is smooth af and I'm just thinking does no one care about sound design anymore? Clearly there's an issue that op before we bring our guests on do you have anything to tell us about wellness anything to declare any experiences or anything you'd like to share you don't have to. Anything. Buying it down the table well, Bisley I shall share the recently I've been trying to journal and reflect more and I just WanNa wholeheartedly kind of recommend that as a practice in daily practice when things are great and when things are not great because I find that a lot of times my head can have swirly tornado. But when journaling, I'm taking the swirly tornado in just kind of working out look it's kind of like when you headphones get tangled and then you just kind of like okay to undo that. Not. An, undue that little weird loop and I find that after a few pages of journaling I feel like the head ventures Kinda like flat in a straight line album, the table and that has been kind of my full of if I can call it's at meditation just kind of reflecting and having a moment of introspection. So yeah, I think kind of listening to yourself knowing what's going on is such a big thing. But another, we have some movement practitioners here a really excited to talk about that because Oh. My God. Call me. Zion. Stationary. Introduced I guess call came a merry because she a stationary. Glee because I'm sedentary. All who? I don't really not ready I. Says. About moving I know it's a lie. I move every day and It I'm lost. We have three guests today June now Lewis is a yoga teacher and mental with focus on movement and spiritual. Practice Gym nell teaches in an inclusive and accessible way encouraging and powered practice Dr Stacey Graham support. Teams, and individuals in reaching their fullest potential with the help of practices and tools such as intersection achievement, as well as emotional and social intelligence. Mia Togo is a yoga teacher life coach who speaks out on the importance of therapy in a work when addressing our own internal realizes and the problem of spiritual bypass in Yoga. Please welcome to now stacy. Okay. So Mia, let's start with you. You're speaking about the importance of therapy a work when addressing own tunnel racial biases on the problem of spiritual bypass Modern Yoga, can you want pack that for us? Well, that's a lot to unpack. But I think what really speaks to me with that is what attracted to me to yoga. So long ago, I, started practicing twenty five years ago and started teaching about fifteen years ago. But before that, my background was in psychology and working with overly gifted coach therapist who really taught me about the importance of rinsing our shadow like doing the shadow work. I had so much self hate and self loathing because I was a professional dancer back my twenty s, and then I made my way into yoga and I really didn't like Yoga beginning because I was the first you have a class I took I thought it was it was very bypass. There was a lot of spiritual Mumbo jumbo, but I didn't really feel the the honesty and the truthfulness. So by my Pass. Can you just rake that time talking about what we hear so much right now like light love and go to that higher place and just you know be very breathy and just peace and calm all the time before I entered the yoga world I was already rinsing my rage in my anger unpacking my trauma and processing my shadow and taking ownership for what I did not like seen in the world. Saying I don't know what Ritzy mean. Winston. Is actually there's a couple of ways. Kind of Chemo Assane writing is a way of rinsing is writing your thoughts and your feelings and your memories in your it pulls up visualizations unless the feelings process and time travel to move through, and then also taking a pillow at a baseball bat or tennis racket in Actually Trauma Release Rinsing and hitting and insane the words whether it's anger whether it's. Sadness would ever kind of trigger. I'm in. I was able to find a way to release it in a constructive way because all of those thoughts and feelings that were very destructive would come out in ways that could hurt myself in other people in relationships which led to addictive thing. So it was a way to rinse out the feelings that a lot of times we're told her bow that angers. Bad sadnesses week and I hear that a lot in the yoga world or I heard that in the yoga world that you just need to be light in in the hunger Chong positive in the Non Hyphen Yeah Yeah I've been a real big proponent of welcome. All Vibes, not the just the good vibes. The bad vibes are not bad. That is such a misunderstanding because if you don't understand what. You deem bad. He will never heal it right. So it's important to come to to have a relationship and understand and unpack that the process. What is mine to take accountability over? So I can take ownership in change that power dynamic within myself. It's like what we do is decolonizing unpacking and learning so much that we have taken in from childhood on by your shadow do you mean your demons your? GREMLINS because they're a little bit. Overwhelming gremlins remnants. So you'll chat I is the baggage that you carry with you from the trauma that you've experienced or the the bad experiences you've had all what life's thrown at you burden with. What you've been born with etc. so your saying that sometimes when you go into sort of very commodified yoga spaces where it sort of all white and light and airy and breathy ever and has to be very light and very peaceful, and just let it flow through you and therefore you're not really addressing or looking at or allowing righteous rage or disappointment of sadness to come out. I was not drawn to yoga in the very beginning it. Took me Oh, it was a relationship that I started to cultivate and even when I started going to yoga classes, I, felt like it was a club. I was not a member of I still felt intimidated is still felt there is an exclusive thing about this was a long time ago. So it. Took me time to understand the yoga world and that was before it became it was mainstream but not so mainstream as it is I started yoga works in Santa Monica. So it was really by some very senior teachers who carried and transmitted the truth of Yoga such deep meaningful way. So I feel really fortunate that I've had that experience I found my way there. Those were the teachers that I studied with and I feel very call to continue honoring that and when you talk about addressing our own internal racial biases I've read that there's a big problem because white people often do not. Address the origins of Yoga, the practitioners of Yoga Way. Yoga's come from. A knife commercialized that and made exclusive. Could you unpack more what you mean by addressing our internal racial biases? Well I think coming into the ogre rolled just my own because I am Biracial I'm half Japanese and half Caucasian and growing up in that environment still feeling like the other and wanting to identified even understand it but I look back now go oh, I really wanted to have a normal name. I didn't I. Me Go Togo when I was called I was like Oh my God. I state you just wanted to fit in. So carrying that throughout my life yoga helped me understand come back to know just. In the work the inner work is to let go of and and not just mentally let go end intellectually but emotionally it the process that went in the feeling realm. So it has to process out the feeling realm. It isn't something I can just make a decision I'm going to change this. It's a practice. So just like a yoga practice, will we step onto the mat? It's not. Just doing physical Austin which gets so amplified right now especially, it's bringing in the philosophy is bringing in the emotional work. It's taking the time to do the inner deep dive in. You can't whole space for that. I, don't think and teach that. If you're not doing that work yourself, I've led many teacher training for Yoga, works. There's only so much you can do at a two hundred art. Teach. Yoga. But only so much you can do in a to art teacher training and I facilitated circles philosophy. As Best I can to keep that lineage alive and talk about the Yoga Sutras and held you take it through your own filter on channel feels very personal and an I'm just Yelich clarify in order to become a like license yoga teacher a you go through a two hundred, our training. Yes yes. Yeah. Do just for the people at home because I know some home. As you know, they've been the two hundred hours of done learning. It's like a drop in the bucket and be tutored. Our is a great place where I started yoga works to. You couldn't even get on the schedule if you didn't have five hundred hours, so you had to do a three hundred advanced training. So I mentored other teachers I. Got to do that here to try yoga now and I started a mentoring program last year, which I was able to mend some of these young tonight younger was teachers. And Health do some other shadow work and help him look at that part of us that feels like an impostor that neediness or that that that we bring onto bringing to the class that we have to be. In alignment with ourselves that we have to do our own inner shadow work to make sure that we can hold space in a way that feels authentic. It feels safe and feels grounded. So I've really loved being in that mentoring position which I did. Yoga. Works and here so I do think people can teach came up in answer to your question after two hundred hours. So there's not a real governing body that says you can't cannot there is but there there really isn't and it usually takes at least five hundred hours to have the. I think and I don't know if genetic few. We feel that same way to five hundred dollars is still just like a drop in the bucket in terms of. I mean I think it really depends on on the person in how they approached the practicing. Their teachers in who they're sitting within also just the the position of it I mean I. Haven't necessarily taught for fifteen years, but after alive and. A lot of contact hours with my students seen a lot of bodies. Done quite a few trainings in Ann Arbor didn't necessarily say I have way more than five hundred hours training but I wouldn't say that that makes me more qualified to sit in the role of a teacher or to lead a training I think. What speaks today is how somebody participates in this spaces, their own spiritual work, their own. Healing Pat fight you. Doing the work themselves and also think life experience you know like where you know from what you bring to it when you come in also. You have to think when when I did my chew hundred, our training and I was thirty six, I was like the old cent when the training said, there were people that were like nineteen inch plenty doing this training. So when we come out the other side of it, so we've done the same training but I would say we're going to be two different types of teacher right as like I'd had child in I'd Hannah light of corporate life in a divorce in all these other things that. I was bringing to the table when I was became a teacher. I think just going back to something that you said Deborah about cultural appropriation because that's what you were speaking about how this white Western commodified Yoga has basically strict the southern Asian influence from a in weirds something that is very upper-middle-class and very white, very ablest and very like Hetero that you know white blond skinny woman very been di basically like roly poly Arafat into had an. You stepping. We don't know what you're doing and Any is definitely a big problem. It is something that for me because the yoga this this is my on the part of the reason why I even accepted to come on the program because we're talking about wellness yoga spiritual spaces, and for me mild issue is these practices give you the tools for self enquiry they give you the tools to look at the difficult things and space after space training after training. was seeing this bypass this life don't bring this difficult stuff here. Don't bring this thing about Indian people and how we should be holding them up and listening to don't please don't talk about this. Go potentially behind the head. You know like this is why everyone's coming here to do this to perfect their handstand not to talk about Yoga and wellness as a tools of light you know collective liberation or social justice. Living Healing? Collective. Healing. Exactly. So I feel like there is a shift now where people because of our say like all the black lives matter protests, how people are starting to look at these things indefinitely in the wellness yoga a ladder the stuff that's happened is basically especially, you see it with with Yoga they've taken it and in stripped back and are trying to. It to folks like to like South Asian Indian folks they've taken the coacher ripped it apart bids the data in Jive with what we're just not going to do that. One of my teachers is saying it's like they've taken a copy of something and they photocopied like so many times. With, each copy it becomes degraded, any because less of authentic original copy and I feel like that. That is we are right now with Westernize Yoga and to get you know the essence bad. We have to listen to the folks whose indigenous ailing practice it is and that South Asian folks we have to hold them up and we have to amplify their voices. In practice and I'm very much committed to doing that. You know right now I'm in a three hundred hour program that is run by South eight even with all hours I'm like, okay I I have to start to decolonize this for myself because the other trainings I went to was adding really know as much as I do now but I was sitting on my Really uncomfortable wearing India but they're not. They don't inviting the Indian people. The teaches anything. Well went on you. Yeah. There would be like John now. Can you please not start your stuff we? Stunned online your ethnic questions. Relief. We're. We're all of here. We love everybody. So it's funny. You say after now because when I had to take all my excise to zoom when I had to take all my exercise to zoom I'm used to going to try yoga because I can walk. There were many teaches. Used to teach try yoga too. I Did And when we went into lockdown I was like I'm going to have to find some different ways of moving because I just didn't trust myself to not get out of bed. I didn't trust myself in. I thought I might sleep late scrolling my phone and then say I was going to do twenty minutes on the exercise bike and not. So I was like go to programs and things, and so I programmed dance cost because I thought. I might as well turn this lockdown into a dirty dancing montage you know. Trying to think positively give them something to look forward to and put in some personal training. But most of what I did in the real world was Yoga I. went to Yoga between probably two and five times a week. And I had to find a yoga teacher on zoom and I thought. Well, why don't I find someone in India because it doesn't matter if they're around the corner or an India. So I found someone in India and had some sessions with her if anyone's interested names, Nancy puree MSI PRI and her instagram on Johore allegheny, the school vibes and she's gorgeous. But that's sort of a non useful kind of way to think about it because everything you're saying is chiming I actually met an Indian woman Once who told me that she did not like it when western people called cultural appropriation because she said I feel yoga is about culture. She said it's the on that connects humanity and she said it's like saying pure maths is cultural appropriation. She's like it exists it is human it is about all. So I feel. Like that was such. An amazing thing to say she was like it's above culture it's like greater them but to respect the on that connects humanity, you need to go back to the umbilical cord where it began. So she was saying, don't not do it. She's like I want everyone the world's do yoga. The world would be much better place. If everyone did yoga shows like Dr not do it just plug yourself into the umbilical cord and don't do as what you Were saying genetic copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy was. So we call it appreciate the culture don't appropriate. Yes. We can call. We can appreciate it as much as we want to and you know with somebody Kinda came for me a little bit because I would do these. It lives about these different topics like, oh so what do you mean white people can't teach Joba and I said well, no I wouldn't be able to teach. Yoga, if we follow that I'm not in the I don't have any Indian heritage however, when I teach it, I'm going to honor the culture and not tell in Asian South Asian earth thing that they're saying Sanskrit wrong that they're doing it the wrong way because it doesn't jive what though white person his taught me that's where we get into appropriation if firmly of art appropriation when the people that a practice in telling the people's culture how they should be practicing it. Is Indeed, what what does happen in spaces and all Gotcha. Here. Now. This isn't me saying to you. You'll wrong for saint cultural appropriation I actually said what you're saying it, and of course, what do they our appropriating at in our question that safety is as well and I love to hear from you stay now about how you kind of claimed yoga practice in your life because we heard from me a bit about it. But I personally in getting into yoga had to get over this idea that it wasn't for me or that that was a rich white ladies and sometimes people joke about it not knowing how harmful that joking is because these practices are so powerful that if anyone needs access to a, if anyone deserves to feel free to take part, you know it's women colored. Black Women. Say I just lived here about your experiences in making this like a part of your life in part of your wellness journey or so. I obviously founded Yaba Body. My spirit retreats was with. Verse Solicit Wellness retreats dedicated to black women and women of color in the UK. There was nothing like that beforehand. And I did that specifically for the reasons you're talking about Kemah, I found this conversation somewhat more polite than I expected it to be to be honest but I found that specifically because black women and women of color have been the caretakers of the world but no one's taking care of them and there's been a type of internalized harm that enshrined. To, live up to these things that have been projected on as the strong black woman the Miami in the whoever we've neglected our own self care I understand like a lot of the Hashtag south here is about going to the spot and giving your nails did all that S Q I do that too. But what can we do for ourselves every day? If we're not doing something for ourselves every day, then we can't survive in this world with good mental health. We can because the world is against us in one form or another as a black woman there's very few images out there. Telling me. I'm valuable. I'm worth a right. If you do Hashtag Yoga on your major social media sites, it takes a long time to find someone who looks like me. And I'm not only talking about and talking about my here, my build the things that I care about rain. So now you have to create a new Hashtag Hashtag. Black. Yogi has black Guinea has tagged color. Yoga. Whatever it is to find us because we're not the default. So absolutely right. You Know How do I? On the one hand counter this internalize. Projection, of WHO, I'm supposed to be I'm supposed to be strong. Why do I need therapy? Why do I need daily meditation lead in our to myself? I should be using that our rice you always right as soon as as soon as we went lockdown, what were the the women telling us? Side Hustle if you come out and you don't, you're not making that money, you're not on that side hustle you best something wrong bid up on my couch snuggling with my. Good. Good. So that's how I came into. So I actually came to via physical thing. I was an athlete most of my younger life and I was an athlete when people didn't understand that muscles should be supple. In. So I had a good friend who's a physiotherapist oddly enough I was living in Germany at the time and no one I was seeing with seeing me. They were like you're strong fit what's wrong. And they couldn't find the reason for the conditions that I was having in black physical therapists said, you know what you should try yoga and I was like, okay. I. Don't know what that is. Did it for a while was really annoyed with light what was going on and it wasn't until I went to India while I was working on my PhD because during my master's program, I had specialized in south studies at a part of it. My friend was like have you ever made it to sell? Your Home Oh and he was like, Oh, now stresses on the space. Ego. So I went to Richie cash is started in Rishon cash for the International Yoga Festival I was. Blown away sure. Lots of white people. They're no doubt. Names, we know them not to mention them here, but the majority of people. We're local. And I was like this. Take Life, change, my life, and so I've never practiced the same since that initial trip where I spent three months and then I went back again studied in the Himalayas. So I very much care about honoring the roots in the tradition I teach courses for Yoga teachers on how to make their classes more inclusive in those courses. Cover a lot of things they cover racial equity. Cultural. Appropriation. How To love the body? So like even like little things telling people I, hate when people start talking about, take the feet hit with this apart I catch myself saying it, and then you see the women nobody has their feet hit with this apart I might do you know where your hips are. Your hips are your shoulders so like these body landmarks are really bad for people because one, we don't really know what we look like most of us aren't really looking in the mirror and seeing what's there receiving some projection in the if a skinny white lady over there selling me my inner he'll should be touching and I have my big size. are touching on this particular Azima. What are you talking about right now? Or like You know ensure sauce stand you have to think about certain things a full figured woman. told me. She was like my breasts are gonNA. Go Straight into my Chin and I was like. I need to say this differently. So. It's my passion about black women taking better care of themselves and that better care not steeped in. Liberalism. It is my passion for a practice that his touched me and changed my life. And it is my passion for dismantling whiteness. So you absolutely have which I am. I'm very happy. You've said this stacey because I remember once a yoga teacher saying stunt with your feet hip distance past, and I've got sort of what in the old days would have been called child bearing, hips. and. So I did what I thought was hip just as upon and was a man and he said is that hip saw And I. was like a yet and he was like, no, your hips a he and he really just meant stands with your feet a little apart because he was I think he did get bones. But you'll hipbones and not your hips if you're me. And so I was oh but also then. He said put your arms out. So they're still in your peripheral vision and I did that and he was like, no, it's there and I went oh and I've just been reading about this many. Women have much broader Peripheral Vision Than Six gentlemen. Yeah I think. This is Stephen Evolutionary theory around. You have to be more careful if you're going to likely be attacked, I don't know but anyway we do. Yeah. And so I told him that he what is that? Why women always like that? When I say he said Kazaa that's my prefer vision I said no no, we've got really good prevision and he went oh, thank you because I a man I'd always. Stop why women would go they're thinking no, you can't see out the corner of your eyes. There's like, yeah, can can. So, this is even listen to union. Well, he did. He did this to me. Can I ask you stacey sure because you've set this up everyone's entitled to feel well, and out society is so fast paced. Now as lockdown slowing down has really demonstrated to us. That more than any previous generation we need space to. As much as I joke about my APPA, whatever we do need space to meditate. We do need space to breathe and as much as we can create access for everybody to be central to these spaces. We should your saying rightly that black women don't feel comfortable in the spaces or don't feel invited into these spaces all the time because they have so white and that would imply that many Asian people may not feel welcome in those spaces as well. Ironically given Yoga's. Umbilical cord to South Asia. What is it that we can do? To fix that his love feminists in this space. So I would question why there's a lot of white them in this in these cases yes. Yes. Not necessarily intersectional feminist, which is something very different. Show. But they were not been that I would say would believe themselves to be intersectional feminist insurances. Yeah. Usually meet them on the trainings that I'm doing right now with some of the major yoga chain studios in the city, one of which has been named a couple of times already on this call and I can say that because the owner has publicly written about the work they're doing with me it's complex it's not done in a day. So I'll start with the micro with the individual. There's a lot of entitlement and. Unwillingness to sit with discomfort. From the Individual Perspective so the entitlement is I'm entitled to this space and I take up the space in a certain way because of that entitlement and I don't see anyone else because this is my space. I am welcome here the space is made for me I don't have to make any adjustments. Okay. So that's what happens I right and there's probably already resistance people listening to that are like, no, that's not me. That's not me. But ask yourself have you looked at someone who's walked into a yoga studio and judge them just by their appearance would is that person doing here? That person surely can't do. handstand. Forearm stand whatever it is. Why is that person coming oh? That person is my teacher? Wait a minute. What kind of classes this about to be. And the afterwards. I'm so surprised. Wow. This class was much better than I. Thought I. Never expected that that's not a compliment. That's not a compliment is not A. The teacher that is not a compliment to suit in that WHO's done opposed that you hadn't expected them to be able to do. So slowdown. You can read a lot of books and a lot of those books are on the best seller list right now they're selling out people are reading them they're thinking, Oh, I've done the work now no, no, no. That's just the beginning. You've read the word you haven't done the work within yourself yet you haven't ask yourself do I. Cross the street when I see a certain person do I assume drug dealer if I see a certain person driving a certain car? Do I call a certain person angry when they're just expressing themselves do is silence or say I'm not willing to listen because I don't like the way the message has been delivered. That's how it shows up in US as individuals. so that's the micro macro is very different. The macro would I'm working with businesses on as far as what are your metrics I love data so don't try to play me on any other thing. Let's talk about your numbers who's teaching. WHO's coming into your building? How much does it cost to come into your building? Oh, you offer community yoga. What time are you offering it? All you're offering during regular working hours. So he can come what community isn't. It people left to talk about Oh you know it's a fluent neighborhoods no no. In the eighties, you couldn't get a black hat to take you into Soho. That's what we know. So who has today? Shortage I'm sorry that's Tower Hamlets let's about tower hamlets. What do you know about our him? So don't talk to me about a fluent neighborhoods. Yes gentrified but people still live there who've always been there are they coming in through the door? No, they're not have you tried reaching out to them head. Do you know the local communities? Do you know who's on the ground doing work here? Do you know what people care about enabling? Do. You know what people about in shortage or do you know about the people who are coming in? To spend money and then leave again. Right so we have to understand first the metrics WHO's coming through the door, and there's a lot of assumptions. Made I had one client who is a white gendered heterosexual man who was telling me why black and Brown women don't come into his studio And he's hired me to do this work and he was telling me that someone who can advocate for themselves. So if I from his client and something like that happens, it's very hard to advocate for myself. In that moment, some studios have four days of training for their front of House staff four days. In. That once. Do they talk about race. That wants. DO THEY TALK ABOUT GENDER? What happens when a non binary person comes through the door? Oh I can send them to the disability toilet. Nothing. Wrong. With the disabilities it what are you selling? Them are by person Oh, we didn't have y'all in minds are we don't have neutral spaces? You can only be a man or woman. And preferably citizen man or woman. So there's a lot that businesses have to think about a lot of people assumed that Yoga Studios and wellness spaces like high profitability basis and for most of them they're not now I'm not talking about in La but in London it's a hard business in numbers game. So often the excuses OPO. Numbers numbers numbers. But there are other ways to do it. You don't have to charge for thousand pounds for Yoga, teacher training. What was happening? What's going on another point is also around this notion that the higher the price, the better the class it's really hurting that of some of my clients minds I heard a client say. There's a difference between if someone comes to teach. Here. In someone teaches in a community hall. I said some of the people I've trained. He's a community hall sharing by Teasing Community House because you hire them. And they WANNA reach the people that they grew up with. So you're keeping cycle. This is so interesting and So compelling and thought provoking, yes we do need to make a big shift if this is not going to be a hypocritical space where that can really be no good energy that can only be selfish. Energy Janelle what is it that you would most like the listeners of this podcast to know when we talk about wellness I Firmly believe that everyone deserves to be well, no matter. What pictures we see an image is that we're we're served up and how it's been packaged fundamentally every person it's your birthright to be well. and. Moving from their wellness is self determined. What makes me well is going to be different than what makes Amran working or stacey meal? Were you well so again, I need to feel. My own agency M. my own sovereignty in determining what will make me well, like chemo her journaling that is part of our wellness journey year were practising yoga on a regular basis, right? So it looks different for different people and why the wellness industry in really is another word for diet culture because that's really what it is and I'm going to put their right firmly out there, which is again comes from colonialism and white supremacy. It goes hand in Hand I. Would say to the white women you have to be with us to decolonize this. This is not serving you either this is keeping everyone small that being well Lee means the I need to be on the beach in Thailand come on no, we all deserve better. We deserve to be well in our out. So flat in shortage, we deserve to be well and our office job in Soho we deserve to be well wherever we are and it means taking wellness bag. In making it for everyone from where they are. Has said that's incredible. Yeah Barry Perry. Quibble notes I'll take him. I love you. Yeah. Mea. Is that anything you've come here today to say? That, you haven't said. One. Of these other women say I think what I'd like to share I guess being in the wellness community for so long and. Seeing the Whiteness in wellness NC understanding how racism isn't so much an white supremacy patriarchy so much lead deeply in a system of culture and it's in the culture of Yoga as well that we have to be able to get on the teaches us to get uncomfortable its top US. It's like, what am I willing to fucking go through for transformation is not an easy fucking ride. And I'm so tired of hearing about the good vibes only my just leave everything at the door. I'm like, no, you gotta bring all your shit onto the mat, bring it on teach that way and I say it with kindness and love. But I'm like it's not light love Y'all it's truth in love 'cause truth will light your way to love the truth which will free you. It's really about liberation and we being even by racial I know I have white privilege work in my white privilege and be willing to fuck up. I say the Sohar wholeheartedly, my mistakes and my struggles are as important if not more important than my accomplishments achievements because it is really where able to unpack and get into my own mud transform in grow indeed part of the collective care. So if I could say anything to anyone as a teacher as a practitioner, bring it all out because we needed authenticity, we need truth we need to have conversations. My wellness is not going to look the same as journals like she was saying, but we can converse about it. We can share our stories and we can learn to love those ourselves and each other with more honesty I was really. Hesitant. I even said the email when guys asked by my center myself right this conversation this is not about me but what I bring in is my perspective of doing the shadow work and I. Think this is a time that we are all being asked to do our own shadow work. Especially, if you have white privilege, you are in a position to hold more power in some ways and you have to do what it takes to keep unpacking that in show up and. Yoga is political. It just. that. My friends. I. Don't know if you know the off the mat into the world, my friend Sean Cornyn Hala Corey and I know you know them denounce his sterling they've talked about racial social justice in Yoga for a long time and yeah, we gotta keep doing the work because it's about equality in Justin freedom and if we can't do that work to find. Ourselves we can't go out in the world stand for it. So yeah, we all need to show up in create space as a teacher at at traeger. Yoga works wherever I teach. I do my best to just open the conversation in credit space for people to feel safe in heard and to go wherever they need to go in their own journey wherever they are. And that is is so powerful right now, I've never been about BANDIPO my body's not I am strong. Sturdy and I love my sturdiness because I'm fifty four years old I haven't that's. That's Geez. Help. I really WANNA see attacking the shit like in my twenties I was like ageism Ovalles. God. What's going to happen you turn thirty of Mike I I don't know I'm going to get wiser. Like gene also teacher training when I was thirty six, I had some real life I got through death through loss. I went through divorce as I am that is my wisdom if I own it if I own that nobody melodious no mud notice that's what I'm leaving with. A she's making the hell. No. Blossom. Add, something I wanna ask you guys something because So we have quite a few people who practice here. We've talked about how important this practices in how inaccessible it can feel any kind of words of I dunno encouragement earning kind of pushes for those listeners as there will be many who do not practice but will benefit from who may be have. Not felt comfortable getting out there if I'm not small if I can't put my leg behind anything than Sochi. May U H Lee hinted today get on assume class, turn your camera off ghetto zoom class, turn the camera off do what you do and I think that's one of the blessings of the whole Kobe there's so much yoga online there lasts at. Meditation and I've seen a big. Thing of people. In stuff that is reasonably priced. Now, you know because sometimes in our hold as somebody that offer stuff you had to pay for the venue you have to pay for so many things before you're even compensated for your odd. Now I can say like, do you guys WanNa do this come and pay me a fiver and we can do the or also I'm more of a position to offer free places to offer scholarships because we're in a virtual space so I think if people want to do something this free south on. Everywhere. Youtube instagram people giving things away for free because they are in a position to be able to do that, and it's not necessarily just doing. Physical Asa is lectures webinars about philosophy even journaling workshops all of these things being offered in you can go on Internally Kim Rolf Ray and can I say if you do have the money especially if you're white. Is there any chance that you could pay extra like if you have the money? You can sponsor somebody else and I know our audience very keen to do that, and we've offered that kind of thing before of by ticket for someone else if I place for someone else gives listeners really do do that checkout Mansi we'll put her stuff in the show notes she's in India, she's making her living as a yoga teacher she lives and breathes that she lives there and must be other teachers. As well, I found her on a website called super off. There'll be other teaches on that website there'll be other just look up. South Asian teaches if we're learning virtually any way, what does it matter if in north London or someone in north India or finding if you're a white one, find a black teacher who is doing excellent work who is probably underfunded who was probably under resources to his probably overtired. Stakes Dr Stacey is pointing. To a self there I'm stacey is anything you want to say that you came to say and you haven't left on the table is simple keep it short I need for everyone to reclaim their agency. We feel overwhelmed they they will. What can I do my little person? What can I do if you're a person with privilege whatever that may be first of all, you can decide where you spend your money that is the beauty of capitalism. You have a choice of where you spend your money so you can make demands. Whatever that spaces that you were taking up wherever it says if it's a studio or a SPA wherever it is asked him some questions make some demands. Your money matters another thing for the individual when it comes Sir Reclaiming Your Agency What does that mean? Even more broadly. You don't have to accept. An incompetent government that. Doesn't care about people's well-being you don't have to do that. How do we not do that because I haven't incompetent government at the moment that I'm living under? It's called the Seven. Day. Own. Whole. Generation of number results today. Yeah. If your listeners lovely our government just went yet you didn't get to sit the exams because of Covid. So we'll just guess but they did a postcode thing so that kids with I mean three stars, which is the highest thing you can get predicted from poor neighborhoods or more mountainous neighborhood all let's be incredibly honest more black or brown neighborhoods i. mean some students were crying they got like two season. D. and they will predicted three stars. The government is now saying, well, if you've got three Dawson mocks, you can choose those instead I mean it's chaos and then ironically one of our politicians said, well, the trouble is if you're on the side of giving you better results than you might have got if you allow the exams and haven't been through the trauma of global pandemic, we might have a generation of incompetent people down the line like really. Really. Be Terrible. Stuff. How I kind as stacey can you tell us just about anybody listening who might want to hire you or come to one of your retreats? We can put the details in the show notes, but can you just tell us what you personally can deliver to other individuals organizations? Sure. So organizations, I can work with them. On equity and inclusion I focus on equity inclusion rather than diversity diversity. That's window-dressing. What we really want is a culture shift that invites difference. So I do everything from. Strategy to implementation including trainings. What I don't do is of an of an organization approaches me to simply have like fared checkmark training I don't do that has to be embedded in a further process office doesn't have to be with me but I, need to there's process. Do you do this for wellness corporations over any corporation? Any corporation I work with startups in a I? I, work with music labels I work with Yoga Studios at work with a range of companies I'm working with breast cancer charities so I have a Wide Range Breath ended depth experience. So people can simply find me on my website Stacey with I either importance. ACC GRAHAM DOT COM and retreats or that type of thing or yoga teachers were looking to learn more about making your classes more inclusive. I do that via my wellness brand, which is a retreats Dot Com. Or some Janelle anything else you WANNA leave on the table slash tell us about where we can find you and how we could work with you or find your work. So I have my own website, John Lewis Dot com I'm on instagram ally in its Johnno Yoga. Currently, if you WanNa practice with me I'm on a service called Movement for modern life it's on lie nobody gives the has to look at you while you're doing it and. So I'm there right now but I'm on. A little bit of A. Break on. I'm working on some projects and those will be announced really quite soon. So even more even more in the air stays in shoulder shakes give. Space. For you to find me, it's going to be on the lights you'd have to be wanting to ignore. Jon Alan I'm here at around in I'm here to make yoga inclusive an equitable for everyone wonderful and equities a great word I hear what you're saying about being equitable about being equal. Mia Mia Togo. Is there anything you say you didn't get to say and where can we find you? I said plenty so We started over me. We signed you. You can find me my website. It's MIA Togo like to go DOT COM. have to go got them whole life. So I use it now and I have on Instagram I'm on facebook but don't ever send me a message because you'll never get a reply Not and Yeah I. for Yoga works. Online I teach try yoga here and online because I'm still stay connected and I am alike coach sales AC-, private clients, and Do you WANNA learn more about processing owning and that intrigued you? Yeah. So I'm just excited I get to do what I love and facilitate the way that do thank you I love that. You've been the most incredible guests I've learned so much I've listened hard and I've heard I'm GonNa take me a few days to digest everything. I've heard when I listened back to the et I'm GonNa see also we know what changes we can make as well internally every time. I learned something on the show. But I, feel like I learned so much today I've done if we've ever done this before in four and a half years of listening to the feminist but I just feel there's something about. This that I feel guilty feminists community collectively under the individuals that maybe we can get to work on this in a way that would be nice to report back on. So I wonder if over the next six months if you do practice yoga or meditation or anything connected to that, all you would like to start maybe you are a woman of color who's never felt comfortable in the space before because it's so unbelievably whitewashed in your area maybe you run a studio, maybe you practice Yoga and you want to invite somebody along and make sure they feel comfortable. Maybe you are a black woman that wants to go to a retreat for black women if you are interested in making a shift. Over the next six months and maybe writing in to tell us what it is that you've done I think we should shut you will something for six months time I, think six months time is a reasonable route time to make a change I. Know we're all in lockdown but as I said, this teaches you can work with all over the world and As pointed out this youtube videos there's APPs there's all sorts of things don't do what I do in Skim through a meditation up. That was clearly. That was really in retrospect. It's a work in. Progress Yeah. I was running today every single meeting I had not too late and I. didn't get to eat and I was trying to do this challenge at the same time and it was stressful and I was like Oh my God I have ten full minutes to sit and listen to water run I'm sorry it's just making me want to go to the loo. So I obviously have some changes to. Make but I'm sure that you can think of some. If you're listening to this that you could make to if you've ever been interested and you've not connected or you have connected but you're now going holy hell the yoga place I go to is very white. You might want to talk to them about that. Right in about it connect invite friends seek out difference basis to go to seek out that community. And maybe, Ryan tell us how you're doing with that. We'll put a date in the diary for six months hence and we will do a follow up but we'll also hear from our guests and see how things have moved in the community. Maybe we should set up a couple of guilty feminist yoga virtual crosses. So we can work with some of these amazing teachers and everyone can ship in. and. I will bring you to love Mindfulness Deborah. Bring you to love it I already love in my. mind. I L O, okay. Yes. Sorry. Yes. Sorry I thought you said my voice and I was like I love your voice region. I, ready to love my voice and I was like, wow, this is taken a ton. Facing. Because of some delivering why which is. So out of the darkness I just heard. I will bring into love my voice. This is a cult. Hollow, guilty feminist. This is Deborah. Now we were so inspired by conversation with Janelle MIA and Stacey this episode that we've decided to partner with them to offer online yoga classes to our listeners with these remarkable teachers was still working out the details of exactly what when, and how much. But if you go to guilty feminists dot com slash be hyphen well, that's B E W E del You can register your interest, and we'll let you know as soon as bookings open, which we very soon very excited to start some guilty feminist online yoga and we hope you can join us and now back to the podcast. Amrik record you're music for us today as you have done a couple of other times. Now I'm renting. You South Asian I am how do you feel about this? I occur a low of what's been said already I think has been articulated very well. I think it adds to the question of accessibility from South Asian ause points of the. Of the arts in Indian classical music and martial arts are very very connected. So if you feel like punk into yoga straight away, but you have link into martial law says away. Fee to find yourself through that there were so many ways in an Iranian college people to study the history of Yoga Study. The culture is behind it, but also how colonization changed law of the office generally like the music started often him I came into yoga through these existing scripture Canadian Yoga's rooted in scripture of the month from Indonesia comes from seeks Ripta is musical and e can sometimes just be created with the ways that you get into finding yourself in the month a kind of us in the sixth. Grip to that translates to the one who conquers the mind conquered the world, and I feel very, very blessed. I was born into a sake Indian family because meditation practices of being of my life from childhood by d say that you know born a sick you know boone, the Muslim Hindi you become one and that comes through will everyone's been talking about in that self study and going within yourself and finding it within yourself and I believe that everyone's capable of that even have to be born into a specific. Circumstance to be able to access that we all have the ability to find ourselves, and for me, it was through music Indian classical music. And it's trickled its way through the music I right now and hopefully making it even more accessible. I think that's what that Indian motor saying. Bigger than all of us, it's like the the music, the rhythm, the heartbeat, the connection, and if we could get back to that if more and more and more people can tap in and get back to it, we would not to connect to each other as human beings and and start to see some of the worst inequities that have happened in the name of colonization. So amorous, thank you so much for those beautiful words and now please which you pros us out with some. Music. Litigation. Dhana Yoga session just by listening. And I so appreciate everything that you all brought. I'm right before you go. Do you WanNa, tell us about any upcoming music you've got coming out. Yeah, the music that's out right now is the blind single and the music video directed by harmony. And a woman curry and same with the song about saying is paradise lost and that music videos ulcer directed by South Asian and a very like majority woman created this amazing women I'm we find you? On instagram at S. Dot I'm Rick Cool. And you'll find meet every last visa. Take it away I'm recall. Suggest a quick introduction to this song I write this song. Called Paradise lost. During. The time I was training Carola and I. Think the major thing that works tool meal was the. was trying to save everyone and have a major savior complex which I'm sure. A lot of guilty listeners may also have. And I think who went through a whole awake name and realizing that should get advocating for other people I need to learn how to advocate for myself and says not only as written. Full of people that I was carrying full is will say written to myself. So, this unschooled. Paradise. lost. Brown's. have. RYOBI's. Off. That's right. data-processing. Guests. Very special guest though Doha's Dr Stacey seagrams. Music. Remember cool. The premise themed. She was my mom called temperatures finding sheldon the Jesus Thompson inskeep. NHL Text Properties not everyone who might step aside. From some. Dot Com. Thank you very much. God this fishing is working. And building and getting complimented didn't even ask for yeah. Yeah Oh always see. Tom Can you won't managing? Yeah. Could you because then if you laugh we'll hear you. Yeah. But also don't laugh. No, do not do not only if you want to laugh though. It's because we've told the audience that you might laugh that's now it's going to be over. If you'd never laughed, you don't feel like to do a fake laughter. Busy did make a convincing. Yeah like we should be emmy winning. Winning laughs but emmy nominated laugh. Ma Goodness that was funny must tell a friend. Indeed indeed. Yes I listen I agree with you friends in retrospect. It's hard to see. Huge. Thank you to all of our amazing patrons sponsoring us at the smash, the Patriarchy level or above, and that's Valerie Mar Jonquil coys Sarah Brown and Sarah Boom?

Dr Stacey Graham India Deborah Matthew Perry John L. Lewis. Black Women US Houston Chemo La Graham Mia Togo London Audrey Hepburn White House stacy Westernize Yoga Tim cody Yoga Studios
215. Justice with Alison Spittle and special guest Alexandra Wilson with music from Amrit Kaur

The Guilty Feminist

1:16:08 hr | 3 months ago

215. Justice with Alison Spittle and special guest Alexandra Wilson with music from Amrit Kaur

"I'm. A feminist. My friend told me the other day. She'd had to Boob jobs one when she was younger and didn't have much money and the second when she could afford the rest. And I said, did you have the left one year eighteen in the right one twenty five like he was saving up and we laughed for about twenty five minutes at the idea of that just like I can just afford one. One a d this one will be an a until I've saved. I'm a feminist, but when Deborah me a picture of her in a swanky dressed, the other day. I said Oh deb's you look just like a trophy wife. Was Me complimenting her. I'm a feminist I set. Cute. Happens two nights ago when Alison I got together to plan the show. I was showing her a picture of some bit of Talia. Done what they've done my hair makeup of course was showing her to criticize myself and go I'm not sure about this and she went no, you look beautiful. You look like a trophy wife. Really deep. You look like property. I'm feminist but. When these hot days happen I still get shy about eaten ice lollies in public. Because I like to eat very quickly. And make eye contact with people. And then in my shyness tried to eat it quicker. Which Dan just looks more sexual. Yeah On the ice cream doesn't matter is inherently Phallic May yes. Yeah. Thought of that before every. Even like even the non. Cornell's you go to town on that. I haven't really. A little. Over a cornet. Look you can do. Yes I like. Lady like fashion I'm a feminist. I look at me like a lady I'm so sorry. Yeah. I'm not talking to hatch nervous. You go to town on Cordell and looks you know that's a good point. It is especially because it's like a flavorful center. That's the best you. I am so sorry Papa so Hetero normative me. Fine on it takes me ages occur now compared to. Well Corn S it was the most sensitive. You know it's not some kind of popsicle. Easy win just put it in May you give me a milky. Mu, it's gone in free goals if just. Unfortunate name for an ice cream I realized. In. Yeah, what? Also. That's hat name from an email. Housing a very long time. Wow Wow. I'm a feminist bont somebody was asking me who's just been on a first date was asking me what kind of second date can I do because the second date is normally state you tell each other about each other second you go to the movies. So then you've got something to talk about you talk about the movie what did you think of the movie? So you've got some stimulus for the second date. and. They said, well, know movies are open at the moment you know nothing's open. It's really tricky to know what to do on a second date and I said I get so many men buying tickets for the guilty feminist as a second date to impress women is true. Because they think Oh my God this is going to impress them because I'm a feminist and I'm bringing you to a feminist show and it's funny and it gives us something to talk about afterwards and I can talk about what a feminist I am I. genuinely believe they think that will up the activity from the third date to the second date. and. In the end I might have said, I've got more men laid in London than any woman I know. Possible. Any anybody here second or third date just cheer. I you're lying. Nobody a date that's never happened before. Is it because it's an afternoon thing. Date? Come here, there's a pandemic no one St. True a lot of commitments. True. That's true because you can't really hookup very much off to dates anymore I know someone who broke her social bubble for a man that wouldn't cutler after sex. and. Then she had to message in the next day. Say Please message me if you've got corona. Because she wanted him to just because she broke her social bubble. And then she did she wouldn't know if he was showing symptoms. Yeah. Yeah. Showing symptoms of being twelve. Absolutely. A cuddle is the best bit like what is selfish? Prick couldn't believe it what a selfish Milky Mu. Yes that's. What? Connecticut. I wouldn't touch milk meals. Tell you that after it would stay frozen. And Okay I'm a feminist but over the lockdown hosted in cocoa video. Parties. tweet along too old films. With other people on watching Mathilde of come to realize that although she's a horrific child abuser. Mistrustful works. Amazing, looks, and is my style inspiration. We cannot tell you how good it feels to be back I'm Deborah Francois this is Alison spittle. It's truly amazing I. Feel like crying to see so many people looking in my direction at the same time. And also I'm like I'm not in my flat and. So many whiz things going on here right now that I'm not quite sure what's happening it's possible. I. Took a NAP and. I've dreamed this. Thanks so much for somebody of YOU COMING OUT I. was going to be sort of like I. Didn't know what to a mansion, but I thought it was just basically going to be like a park and. With like fifty people on rug sitting in looking in different directions. So it was going to be awful and this is just glorious. Look happy it for this is I mean I still said, yes to it because I was desperate to leave the house but I This is actually love. This is a proper audience. Thank you so much for coming out. Doesn't it? So are we ready stopped show? Thank you so much for coming out. I'm going to sit down and welcome the gravel. Getting deja Vu or something it's like I've gone to a past life progression. Session you know and. Coach and you're like I was a king once and. But I was a stand up comedian. Genuinely yet, this is weird may even the way it feels on my hand and the actually this is getting the best sexual. But it is this I've found makeup and everything for I. Mean you know haven't had it in a long time. So you might put in the effort. I've talked about podcasting. But I think for Comedians Times stand up comedies more sexual than sex oh definitely. Definitely, I mean, Kaz sex can be done. Sort of sex is great but have you ever Gig to a stag party and not been violently killed? H-. Actually I have an. What's your best standup comedy memory you have of memory where you felt like, Oh, I'm totally flying here Oh. Yes. Oh yes. So what happened back in the day I, 'cause like I'm a lady that is a fash. And what people used to think was Kryptonite was insinuating that they were sexually attracted to me from the audience. So I remember once I had a man miming how he was going to have sex of me and then I accused him of. Wack she concert on this podcast, but then you can we can edge downst-. Can everyone just not tweet what Allison's going to say? And he's true. We do say lot stuff. We would never put out in the podcast. So strap in. So basically ever sitting down and he stood up, he was very drunk. It was on music festival it was going while does he think? He stood up and he was like. He's only going to have sex for you when he was doing the movement safer. Looks good but no. I'd be surprised if he's ever. Made a woman come and. Look I was at my lowest and I'd like you to a kid and then I got people that's the word pedo until he left. Top members. Because the funniest fake news, just watching people pass by ten and go why like four hundred people chanting pedo An incredible new band. Wow. That's not what I thought. You were going to say a tool what what I I don't know but see why you want to censor it. Could. Be Like, Oh, I did the. Where's that Great Gig? We did last year the adult played up. That's really famous in Britain. The Great Gig weeded where adult place she wasn't at it but she played that venue. No No, it's the big. The big building. Right, yes. There we go. Yeah. Yeah. Good Gig. I've done the Royal Albert Hall or I got four hundred people to Chat Pedo Yeah Right That's very much the sake of a stand up. Comic My was story like that is. I was in Australia was in Melbourne, MS, a cup called the highland club that happens at the Melbourne comedy festival. It opens at one I am. And they put the headliner on first because if they put the headliner last no, one would watch them too drunk. So it was the only Gig in the world that I know of with the headline has to go on i. so the audience can recognize them. and. So I was hosting it, I was emceeing it. So it was my job to get the people in the room to. Form. What we in the business call an audience Oldest, associated riot of drunks and just some loud the guy and I say this with love as I am also Australian just sheltered jokes about periods and childbirth. I assume because he had correctly identified that I am a woman. And he thought those were the two proper subjects for woman to be discussing on stage and I reached for again one I am and I'm not ashamed because it was the bronx thing to do but. This Lena them shout Pedo. Did it. It put it all of your jobs. They'll be moments we go. This is the right thing to do I'm not shamed of it because it's the right thing to do but nor my proud of it. But when he shouted do jokes about periods childbirth, is it Just, because I've got to continue our one doesn't have to jokes about them. Yeah. This is not what anyone said it would be at two o'clock. This be a charming tea show. We've already said Pedo in the seaward. Yeah. That sounds like a sitcom pedo onto siewert. Come to you on adult swim. Everyone. Over excited because we beat allowed out of our houses I, know normally when I say we normally a little bit more unfettered in real life than we are on the podcast. That is true but it's not as true as it is today. This is the guilty feminist, the cost which explore on noble goals, twenty-first-century feminists in the postseason insecurities which undermine them. I'm Deborah. With, me as spit today, we're talking about justice. So on the subject of Justice Yeah, do you feel as a feminist? Your job is to fight for justice. Oh all the time just because I just feel very angry. You know generally have you always been angry about injustice or is this something that grew on? You Got Older? No I've. got. Trying to think of the first time I was angry. Children have an enormous sense of injustice not usually I mean this generation of children have an enormous sense of injustice the world. But when I was a child, we were not told about the World Oh. Yeah. We we just didn't have access to any information. So we would just very angry about things like she got four suites nine and got three suites or it wasn't fair. Because you said, we couldn't do that. Then she did it and then nothing happened to her and then time three months ago when I did that you angry with me probably do you remember that it's a child yet? How infuriates that you would be by unfairness yet chiltern she took strictness they can't bear fairness I remember my friend Julie kicked me out of our girl band. Glare Babes, right. That's what we were called by signature Babes. Yeah. Because we liked glare and we were nine years old. No. Use of the term Babe. Was Sugar Vibes and at the time and we didn't WanNa copy them outright. So we went glare. Touching the legal nightmare that would have been for you. I now ground when the sugar babies heard the. Taking their act so good good. That was a strong work. Yeah. But we Irish. So we could have been like commerce, the Provisional Sugar Bay. Or? The real sugar, but you need to know more about the IRA is. Funny of my jokes are going to work. So yeah. got kicked out the bond later Babes and were supposed to addition for a TV talent show and I went to open my own I decided I'd written the letter I'll go up represented declare Babes. Disbanded and I didn't get onto tally. So it's this like you know in the x factor was sometimes a band goes on and then they go actually we just want you Susan. Yes. There any way in which he would ditch your twin sister and the best friend I've had since five years old and then she goes, oh, it'd be a really difficult. Yes. Yes I would. I did that process before TV bit was I don't want to get rid of them. The X factor. Star Stream. That's what it was called. It was a kid's TV show. I Sang I'm like a bird by Nettie fraternity. I thought I gave it the Gravitas that it deserved. But now they weren't. I now reading here. Would you want to hear the song that we wrote together Oh? Yes. Yes. Okay. Okay here's the exclusive. hyg Is high low is low. This is where I like to go come with me and you'll see where I like to be baby baby baby. This. Yeah. Of course was just us go Yeah mm-hmm. Oh. Gina won't it's not worse than anything stock Aitken Waterman I. Missed you cooling almost luckily you so funny. It's all right and also you can have a longer career in comedy can impact what I was playing the long game and I was waiting for this opportunity to come up and. I'm available guys. Go still not too late but is Greater Babes Julie. stuffed. Talk more about justice late to win guest comes on and that will be a sort of more serious former feminist justice. It won't be about the fact that I also, what's your justice? I was talking all about my girlfriend and let you talk I'm sorry. Well, have you ever been in a girl band I, know I was wanted to audition for the. Goal bound in school dance competition. Miss Power could be named by Charles Dickens who was our teacher I remember said they would be an school dancing competition, and so I did just after school. So it's like it was just a sort of ride inappropriate pop music, but I was right down for that. And I remember the day she walked around the class and she said, Rosh, today we're going to choose the girls for the into school dancing competition. All the blonde girl stand up. And all the blonde stood up and she got there by the wall and then she went down picking goal she thought with a purpose you and Janine Henny. Now Janine Henny had brown hair. But she was an awesome dance and she had trophies to prove it. And it was that day that I realized that if you will Brunette you need at a talent. That hair color was not going to see through. This story would be incredibly racist except the whole class was white because it was sort of his beach talent Austrailia where it was just it was extremely white to area. But she would not have cared she would not have cared she herself was Brunette, and so this was a piece of self loathing that somehow blondes were better and I remember at seventeen. How old would I be from allowed to dye my hair blonde because I just thought? Well, this is clearly where it's at. So. This piece of injustice I wasn't really aware at the time. It was unfair I just thought I'd been born with the wrong hair as well. Clearly, God has blessed me but one time I told this story is part of a wider storytelling show and I saw someone in the audience everyone was laughing and I saw someone in the audience just looking horrified and I looked further and I went. Are You Joe? Burnett she nodded and this is a school friend of mine who hadn't told me. She was coming to show. I haven't seen her in years she just turned up. And went you got picked for that into school dancing competition didn't you and she went? Yes I'm so sorry. And afterwards, we went for a drink. This is true and we went for drink and I said, do you remember all the blonde girl stand up and she said I have no memory of her saying that and husband Khushi didn't because that's the bit that you edit out if you were in privileged group. And of course, there would be other things I don't remember. I don't remember all the white people step forward but clearly, that's happened a million times in my life but I don't remember that part I. Remember how hard it was for me to get beyond this or get beyond that with injustice I think it's always good to a check. Is this just normal to me or is this unjust and secondly when a you in the group that he's just asked to step forward and there were blond girls who probably felt devastated because they were lined up against a wall and then chose not pretty enough. Like I was edited out before Wilbur didn't make the blondet. So I'd my looks were never even considered. So did you see what I mean there's so many ways and I'm sure that in the boss of the goals that were chosen, there was bullying and there was this one's better dance this one. But I never got as far as the boss, don't go on about it. Comedy. Oh, my Gosh I'm so excited I'm going to talk to you about something that I wrote at the start of the year about my hopes for twenty twenty. Five. Okay. So and New Year new me and all that Jazz I've stopped beating myself up about how much I way at the start of the year and instead I beat myself up about how happy I am at the start of the year I check in with myself like a passive aggressive woman that I went to secondary school with. Yeah but are you really happy out of some? Yes I am Julie Show. I planned this New Year's Eve. Properly I was flying back to London early to a London friend's housewarming right she was going to prepare a buffet I was sold. I never been to a buffet in someone's house that didn't have a corpse at it. I was very excited. Very. Wonderful London Glamour Life at Cosmopolitan. Buffet and maybe just maybe there would be fireworks when I lived in Dublin I heard fireworks I've ran away from fireworks while young men free fireworks at me when I walk the wrong way from little but I've never seen fireworks for my own will. As the plane land got text and a picture of unopened move in boxes. My friend is constant apart there's no. London, Glamour, Buffet for me. Spend, the evening dragging by so heavy. It warranted an airline sticker suitcase up several flights of stairs here in Years Eve party east roof doors of my neighbors flats, and congratulate myself for being able to recognize the music. I'm still with it. I know what? Dance Monkey is. Who Sang of no idea. I've read ice have come to the age right discover chart, music and free wedding discourse. Of reach. Sage. I live in a high rise flat and I can see bt from my bedroom slash dining room kitchen. And I squint hard enough I can see the London I. is around up the two, thousand, ten on a TV, and it shows a terrorist attack on initial wars stuff kept me up at night at a time of Xie but with time forgotten, there's too much use remember. It feels like pop music at some point you give up keeping up, and then you start to wonder if Billy Irish is pop star involved in a military coup. Why not both? It felt wonderfully perverse scrolling free twitter as people listed after achievements for the year and even worse their achievements for a decade and I was eating the pot noodle my pajamas at half Lebanon Year's Eve. Hunt twitched impressed on taxi. APP and I read is to Primrose Hill within fifteen minutes and see all of the London skyline. For the New Year I thought no one else would have ever thought of this idea. And I was very clever. Without thinking on a hat and coat over my pajamas and I clicked confirm right we've been free minutes I was in a car. Taxi driver. It was the first person spoken to hours. He told me that the surcharge would be crazy after midnight and he's on until five am and he likes to read books in the New Year and he asked me what I wanted for the new. Year fell silent. What do I want? To be more happy and how do I chief that? Is there a t I can by INSTAGRAM FOR I found easier to lie and say that I wanted to take jocking. As the clock hit five, twelve I out a car ran towards hill drunk POWs were dragging drunker Powell's in a war. That's. That's we're talking with small children on their shoulders, bobbing bobbing boys and a choppy sea, and we all want to see the same thing running out of time Iran free to gates the unfamiliar feeling of lactic acid hidden my calves. My chest, tighten the coal. There is burn my throat the park was packed and I could see the outline of thousands of heads of the same ideas me the crowd got louder. There were counting down but I couldn't make out a numbers they got louder and louder in the space got tire. Never, GonNa feel that again. People for for Peek at the New Year I heard a massive cheer, but I could see was the back of a couple shift into face off each other, right That's All I could hear was alone drunk woman shouting Sharon behind me. And then it started the shifting on mass. and. It just begun to sound like a rainforest. Underaged disco all over again, affect my chest tighten the air tasted different. It was gone powdery and Mahan Brush, my pocket where normally keep my inhaler. Pockets. I'm going to die because I tried to have a good time on your year see. But most of all, I'm going to die because Patriarchy refuses pockets on women's clothing. To Laugh and I laugh tireder somehow it helped me go more air the fireworks stopped and people started moving away from the hill I went with the flow of people and I was just laughing harder and harder to step on a curb and I looked up and I stopped I could see the full London skylight was no fireworks. Longtime ago, but it's all covered in a haze and sight London was the stage for in any concert. It was beautiful our company breath back and I stood still and took it all in and I was glad I, tried. This year I'm going to try more and also take jogging. As my costs are still not right. Thank you so much. Please consider stage. I'M GONNA. Tell you a little bit about my time in in lockdown because lockdowns alleviated a little bit. We know that because we're outside in a garden that's what we do. Now we go to our friends houses who have gardens or in my case like a tiny terrace, and we sit two meters away from each other. It's the same as before except that I'm still not wearing trousers. I'm just turning up going. Listen they used to seeing me from here up I just say don't look down below. First Thursday after serious lockdown alleviated at eight o'clock I came out onto the street to applaud my waxing team. Where were you? I seemed more of US would be out. My wax did come around because you know let's go out to a salon yet but she's coming to the house and it was she's Australian and it was like a really it was a real thing. I mean she was very happy to be back at work, but it was a bit like visiting a mechanic. Look under the hood and go. Let's see what we're dealing with here. Let's have a little cop seem some all tell you. I've seen some egregious things this week. backout back out on the horse and I mean my God I've seen some egregious things that I just need to prepare myself before I have a good look. For what what has been happening down there. Now, the first thing I need to ask you is have you touched area yourself it all and I was like, no, I haven't I've just absolutely let it go while to haven't done any shaving I've done no plucking I've done their homework she said, thank you so much. Thank you so much. You wouldn't believe the nightmares I've seen on these jobs people should not be allowed to do this themselves. There should be some kind of place where it needs to be done by professional. You wouldn't just go your own tonsils out and yet. Women have been down there. They've been taking raises with I can't even say you know I'm I'm now I'm stuck in this situation I'm having to fix up the messes and she said what i WanNa hear is you've done nothing you've touched nothing you've trimmed nothing you've been down I said look honestly I mean what's the we're in lockdown I don't know what the point is normally to be honest it's not like I turn up showing it to anyone it's just a feeling. I, don't know. I'm not saying, no one has ever seen it. I'm just saying it's not. Given the amount of time spent on it. It's very little time commensurate with the time and money anyway. Well I'm saying is she was so happy when she saw it. She, went on. This is a beautiful example of what to do. In Tennessee beautiful do nothing and this is what you get but it's going to take a wall. It's quite it's quite a grown. It was like it was just the way she went in almost like with a cup. It was like you know those videos you see deforestation where a bulldozer is just coming at some trees and there's an elephant nearby going Oh, I can hear like the little elephants down there going no, you're taking a natural habitat of. I'm not implying have crabs it's a metaphor. Yeah I like an Australian wax I do enjoy. Australian wax are used to have. A tiny. A wax once said to me and I just said just anything outside the pants sort of thing and she went oh yeah you don't want Koala is. Is. True. True Story. She was the first one to whoever gave me Brazilian accident nearby she kept on tidying. She kept on going to see to take a bit more off the back Oh that's a bit neither starts crooked now. and. The end I swear this is true. She said I'm sorry I'm going to have to charge you for the Brazilian. Gone and I paid her and tipped, and that's how I knew. I was now British and Australian. And it's a bit like paying someone to Tidy Your House and coming home and finding they've robbed the whole place blind to thinking. Well, admittedly, there is no clutter. That was what it was. I pay pay our still pay you. Sure, you still got my piano but still. So. This is a bit of and I am a feminist bar feminist but my friend lives in Camden. You might know her Ellen Jones. She's being on the House before and saying to me hasn't the cat and got worse during lockdown. And I was like yeah. She was. Just terrible and was like. Awful people keep shouting at a your on credit be sexually attractive. And I'm like, of course, I don't want any cat calling ever. I don't want anyone to be cooled. But also I'm a socialist and it's going to be distributed. Equally, I don't if I was out but then they were all shouting at her shouting at me I'd be like horrified Debra shouting at Ellen but also. Wrongly salted. I don't understand what the kids. Feel like I shouldn't revealing it. And then she said because I run and she said I think your breasts bounce when I think that's it and I was like, Oh my God that's it. That's fine I don't run I stroll. But the next time I went out to Primrose Hill I thought I'll speed up a bit just to see. I mean it's been great for my cardio still to hear a single insulting complement. And that's good. Don't want a genuine don't want it though of January I hated if it happens. Just want any don't want any woman to be heckled in the street for fucking walking or running all lying down all standing opposite. I don't want that for anybody. And I definitely wanted some women and not others. I have been singing lockdown. Learning to dumps up and talking about this, if anyone's be listening to the PODCAST, we've been doing in zoom mostly because I thought I could turn this whole lockdown experience into a dirty dancing montage. It'll go faster if I'm dancing every day. So I've had a dance teacher and she's been teaching me I don't want overstretch what I've done, but I have been dancing every single day for five months. So I have very high expectations of my ability now but I do want us now if you're doing it every day for five months so obviously I'm better than I was and What I'm saying to you is my body roles now are fucking adequate and. They're amazingly adequate and but my body didn't want to do that something's my body can do straightaway and my dance teacher will say, Oh, you've just picked up really quickly and most people find that hard and you've picked it up pretty quickly and there are some things my body just doesn't want to do and body rose like honestly I could be in tears because I was like I don't understand because I'm doing exactly what you're doing, but it doesn't look like anything 'cause you can see yourself on zoom when you're dancing because you can see and that's the idea of it. So it's sort of like a mirror I just don't know it's just my body just didn't WanNa do that. My body was going my buddy but musical style Danzig cut a jazz or something like that. It's happy to do that. But with body rolls I think my body was just saying you're just not that sexy. We're not sexy stop that. And so I, she would be like. and. I would be like tits in out. This is not great podcast materials to be honest with you I'm. I'm my body was like you're just not that sexy. We don't WanNa do that did you learn nothing from the on and? Look I. Still Believe I. still believe I'm highly desirable and I want my hips to tell that story so I'm pushing through. The story my hips generally tallies, we can bare children. That is a lie I'm a spectacularly. China. I was spectacular barren I tried to have children and failed but now I am quite pleased about that because all my friends who have children in lockdown. Desperate. They are desperate p pulled out because nobody he told them that one day the state could just go. We don't have them anymore. We want them at all now. I had the agreement that you would take. Personally, about seventy percent of the time. No we're not going to do that now, and there's a really good reason you calling from fucking complain about it even though we were Tory government with doing the right thing by making you mind your children all the time. But. I. Really Like my children if the irony. Time I hate my children you can behavior children. You should have thought of that shouldn't you? So. This is the upside of being spectacularly barren at no point. Does anybody say you've got to live with your podcast twenty four seven? You can just not do it. So. If you do have children I'm sorry for you but also. At least narrowed the look back on this time and with you. And they will have something to talk about with their therapist. Because as much as you hyping with them all the time and it was much as you've discovered, you don't really love your children's much as you thought you. I've had friends say that to me directly. I saw I would I thought I loved this child so much turns out. No, I only love them when I'm seeing them between three and six, and then they go and watch TV will go on Youtube and then I put them to bed. I love the bit with the story time. I love the bit where I shout at them to get their shoes on I love story time between those don't really see them. So don't know how I feel about them. Now I know and. The News that I have for you is your children feel the same. They. They loved you. They've discovered. No they just hate school Please email telling me that you love your children. They love you, I. Know It's a joke. Tom. Stand. Up His crude tool. Highly, guilty feminists, Deborah just letting you know we have a guilty feminist recording coming up which is live. You can come to it. Now, we were delighted to be part of the new normal festival nothing to do with the instagram show of the same name and it has been such a success that they've extended. We're doing another recording on the thirty August seven, thirty PM check out the feminists website for tickets and gala Edinburgh. Fringe. Festival has been sadly canceled for twenty twenty. The shed and fringe festival has just started streaming from the fourteenth of August. You can see an amazing line of comedian storytellers and theater including my award-winning show Deborah Frances White Rolls, the dice about finding my. Birth mother, I would love you to see it because I haven't done it since I started doing the guilty feminist and it's a very personal show to me. It's on Friday the fourth of September at seven thirty PM London time and it will be live streamed. All proceeds from ticket sales will go financially supporting future young emerging artists and creatives with grants to help them make it to Edinburgh for the first time go to shed knbr dot, com for details and book for my show and a host of others. Also, we've got brand new march, mugs, t shirts, etc. At guilty feminist dot com, and all the proceeds go to a park good things and now back to the cost. Our guest today. Is a barrister specialising in criminal and Family Law. In her book in Black and white she tells her story of Race and class in a broken justice system. Please what going to sage grab Alex Sandro. Alexandra. So the first thing I really want to say to you Alexandra is your lawyer. Your mother must be very proud of you. I needs to my mother is also very proud of you. Yes. She wanted me to be a lawyer and but you know what? She never mentions that now once every three months and That's I appreciate that. So she would have loved she would've loved me to be in a wig and I think it's a quite similar job to stand up comedian. Really you have to leave a story. You have to entertain the audience you have to be convincing if you not convincing lose them all of that sort of thing, but you have to work for terrible people even though you know. Minor innocent over. I mean, how do you feel because your book is about being a black woman injustice and racial and gender lines and class lines injustice? Do you ever feel like sometimes I'm defending the Patriarchy Absolutely Something that my friends ask about law and the way I love. Sit with people how you sleep at night and the only sponsor is because I genuinely think that everyone deserves proper representation and you know I have brothers. I have cousins and uncles who are men and I just think if they were accused of something, I would want someone to be wholeheartedly representing them. So that's how I sleep at night glass. Well. Yeah. I mean I suppose everyone deserves a fair trial. Must be very personally times you must have to really compartmentalized though yeah definitely think that's the skill being lawyer Yeah Yeah I mean there have been some really tricky cases. So one of the cases I I personally found most difficult was imprisoned already he was applying for release until I was representing him a Perot hearing and that was really difficult because it's not one of those situations you know we always ask. How do you feel representing someone who thinks goatee and in this case it was well I. Know He's guilty because he pleaded guilty and he served twenty years in prison, and so that was difficult before I go there and then once I got there it was just like any other client. Got There and I was so worried the night before I, remember talking to my parents and My mom was laugh a how you how you doing that sure that you might want to think of a career change. This. Single mom isn't proud of you so. Thanks. To know that whatever you do. Your Mom's not proud of you got some information. That's what I'm taking away from this. I mean, I suppose you can't say this case not that case. That's. Exactly, exactly. So there's a cop bronco and literally Cap Rank So. The first case that comes along and is off your level you have to do it. I think it's a really good system because it means that it's not held against you. If you represent certain clients because everyone understands the everyone has to represent anyone when you get a bit more senior us a bit more. They say it's It's not really is the cases that high profile and stop. Cooling a personal chauffeur. Yeah. Exactly was first. CAV. I. Mean we do live in a world where we have a good strong legal justice system and we do want to live in a world where everyone represented. So I can't think of any other way around it. What's it like for you being a lawyer because you're very young? Yeah I think sometimes that can be a good thing. Sometimes, it's GONNA be a bad thing being young means that sometimes clients can kind of look at you and be like. Where's my loyal? In a shame that you like. Someone just helping out but then once you get going I, think one of my clients Sipho keep my fingers crossed have felt fine about it but also that can play out in court and one of the things I quite like about wearing a wig and gown is because of controversy at the ball is debated but I quite like the fact that it puts. Everyone on a level playing field is kind of like a uniform. So you have that wake on, you have the gallon on and we're all equals me. That's a really big thing. Maybe it's because I look different from an other barristers the I quite like the victories for some people might be a big deal because we want like every other white man here. For me. Shame that says you must respect exactly. It's my turn to talk precise. I've done the exams and I've. Never. Thought of that way before. Thirty five. Addison because I think it's a source of similar job description to stand up comedian in some ways. Every part of you that fancies being in a courtroom drama and banging your fist. Listen being being Jack. Shot. To Britain. In all. And you can go like. Oh You definitely. Guilty. The crowd of said. Wow I think this is a lot less stronger than people think of seeing these American dramas and it's like people coming around the courtroom and it's really really exciting. K. It's literally like people are falling asleep is like trying to keep the jury awake he the my right There's something on table. Nine. Took Court before I've been actually twice once. Support for someone who didn't tell me to fool details of what they were getting done for. Watch No one. Like. Oh. I've been misled. Action. Just GonNa pop. Time, is when I went to college, we had a law modules and one of the requirements was we to spend a day in court as a you know as a onlooker and I picked juicy day I was amazing. So in Ireland, not that money murders happen and wenders like sex involved not like. I. Mean it was an affair. No one actually saw what happened. I'll tell you what happened and then you can feel okay about it. Right. So I told him we're going to feel like, Hey. I think you. So this woman was married to this man she wasn't happy right and she just typed into Google assassins, right? So. She's having Google and she found a guy. And they were having a chat and he's I e Al I'll do that feel off no problem. Just fly me over from LAS. Vegas right. So she flew him over and he was ten in her oh I'm going to put stuff in his contact lenses. No one will know all this just fed up with like I'm going to ask him so good. Now. He did it like he just came over and said Nah I'm not going to do this Thank you for the flights and and then the police found out that she was looking for an assassin and the husband was like I still love her like we're going to be together. I forgive you. I know. This isn't a plotline for the bold and the beautiful may I was leaving I was sitting there like Thankyou court Jesus like. For bestowing this juicy court case with no, they're going to say she took him to court for not doing the hit after he'd she'd paid for his trip from Las Vegas well, the strange thing. The false pretense. Thomas Cook leaves you stranded and you're to get out to assassins. Bureau about. What to watch on Robinson she needs a murder and. So I was sitting there and all these other people they had flasks, lunch lunchboxes. These people were like rigged up for a long day. Anyway was there I went to the toilet this is the glamorous bit right and. I went to the toilet in the court because I was like you know I like going to the toilet in government places. Because then I could. Take us. Ok Okay I'm also not going to think about every. Could. Take that society. Also. More glamorous toilet I feel you know they've got the government fund it's going to be soap like it's always good. So I was there too. But there's this policewoman carrying the other toilet of what's going on here I went in. I could hear like a clear. Right. Guess. Who came out just a person the woman like. What's my caller like pendant defending your technical term? She came out with up just heard the Piss of evil. EXC. Did she go down. Oh get. This is the weird thing I'm like chat. So she went down for conspiracy to murder, right the guy. Who she the conspiracy with ourselves because also found guilty. Yeah. I was smoking at the time and he did other defendant went out for a cigarette and I was totally listening as. He said nothing to and. got. A. So film noir this thing. I. Know I'm a lady gave me sandwiches. It was the best. Day. Is a phenomenon straight. To think that you'll book contains anything more exciting. But I'm sure it does next title for your next book Pissing Vivo. Hey. We'll get a miniseries based on. Like phoebe Waller Bridge. You know. In a very real way good luck pitching feeble bridge pavel but this she brought church so you don't nine. Can. I just. Backstage. We were talking about some of the experiences that you have and things that are said to you. Do you think it's youth gender race and what kind of things is it to you? Yeah. I, think a real mix I think the boss still has a long way to go I remember there was a case where I was the people are so a trainee barrister and I was on a case with lows of senior barristers and they will men and I remember the person that I was shuttering was giving a speech to the jury. Part of what he was saying he was saying. The evidence is circumscribed by and this other male the next millions over guys. You know I'm not circumcised. On always. His I'm Catholic. God that does sound. Around I mean, it's like creepy comments like that I. Catholic that like. There's no. Nothing end up for you like can I say? You'll just get a load of guilt you know. You're implying that the guilt travels on the full skin. Not. In timing. Show how this conversation taken this. Book guilt travels on. Off to the PISS, of evil. Guilty pool skin it's a tragedy. Beautiful Skin could be a great spinoff for US photo. We just had to circumcise blokes just do it and let an franchise. It we go. That's. Just suggestions all of them a gold. So, your book itself. It's titled in Black and White, and it's about racial and class justice. Presumably Gender Justice. Can you tell us a little bit about what's in your book? Of course? It's about my experiences kind of. Join in the ball and my first year as a pupil barrister, and so in the book I talk about my past experiences kind of being in a profession that still very middle class very why is seen as very elitist do and it is because it's so expensive to break into the training costs by way, of example, is nine, hundred, thousand pounds. So. And then up until this year your first year of training, you could be paid as low as twelve thousand for the year. So this. Training courses a lot more expensive than what you then get paid. It has now been up to eighteen thousand but did you notice there's still just under the course? So. It's kind of going through my experience without first year some of my cases and some of the experiences I've had some of the clients that come into contact with the kind of aim was really to give a new perspective on the justice system. You know I think a lot of us. On acquainted with the Justice System until it's too late in inverted comments. So sometimes, it will be. Actually you've been caught top in something it might be that you're going to force. It might be that your kids are taken into There's so many ways that people kind of bought into the justice system, but they don't know much about it until they're they're. So my my whole thing was to try and make a bit more accessible to shell out in other author the secret bars brilliant job i. don't know if anyone's read the secret barristers vic absolutely brilliant job but obviously, they're gonNA miss. You didn't know who they are. Kind of the of the banks of law exactly. Exactly. Mine's quite different in you very much know who I am and my experiences are very much told from being a young black women who was not from a privileged background and yeah hopefully, that's a good summary of mark. Can you tell us a story from the book that kind of High Nineties? Some kind of injustice that you see is motivated by some kind of identity I was representing a defendant. And he was a young black boy. and. I got to call that morning and we were in the robing room. It's called the very of kind of where you go to get changed because you don't go to court and you're waiting down otherwise people might be liable also and. So, yes you get changing the women. Generally, barristers would prepare for Chitchat about their cases. Sometimes, you lots of advice on some things sometimes just be a general Chitchat. And quite often the topic is who you judges because obviously as I'm sure you can imagine judges can make quite a difference to the case and so I was. Talking about my I didn't know this chargers. Asking someone else you know. Like And the other is said to me. Oh this judge. Should be glad that the racist judge retired. Like. You'd have had no luck with him and for me that really hit me that that was even. A normal thing to say you know the people were considered racist judges and that was accepted and I say accepted I don't think anyone endorsed there but it was it was something that people knew I'm more aware of and we'll just operating alongside and for me that was not really hit me and I was like how unfair is that? Do we make low-fare up because if you've got a course that's nine hundred grand and then your entry salaries very low. Obviously if you're from a family who doesn't have that kind of money and they're concerned, will you ever run this back? It's hard to get people edge if you are. Black or brown and you. Very recently, they'll all the racist judges just retired therefore that still endemic in the system, like what can we do to make it fairer because all of that not just that that's all horrible and unfair but that plays into why so many black and Brown people are convicted so more readily, what can we do about them? So I think I have to breathe before that one. All of that is so true. The fact that we see these huge systemic injustices play out in. How many people have been arrested the conviction rates. All of that is massively massively impacted by the fact that actually the people representing and the people making the decisions on not representative of the population. What can we do about it? I mean in terms of financially. I think one of the big things is that they're all scholarships but people don't know about them, and so one of the things that I really try and do is I try and improve visibility within the profession. So the people know this stuff I didn't do university I did. Politics, philosophy and economics. So I had to a conversion course. So that's another eleven thousand before the nineteen thousand and I was already a huge from university because my parents pay for me to go to university had to go alone so. Eleven thousand I had to take out loans to work or did the cost full-time, but then worked three days a week. So I had to literally just catch up during nights and evenings and stuff. and. Then I found out that there was scholarships and why? He like. And then I applied for one thousand, nine, thousand covered by scholarship and it's made a huge difference. There's no way I would have been up to just scrape together nineteen thousand pounds you can't go to buying skis may of nineteen thousand pounds but my salary is going to be twelve thousand next year and it's not even guaranteed because we're self employed so. You know I think people need to know what's out there I think that's only gonNA come by barristers becoming a bit more visible and barristers telling aspiring barristers walks out there and we need to shine a bit more of a focused way not going to eat like or Westminster. Awesome you know those nice privilege private schools and be like, oh? Yeah come. And join us here will the scholarships available. We need to actually go to like inner city schools we need to go to private areas we need to not just go to Oxford and Cambridge and I, say that as someone who went to Oxford but you know we need to go to other universities and actually talk to people and say this is what's available. This is how you do it, and then I think people might actually start to consider it because it's a huge risk I completely agree. I think that's A. Great Point Yeah. Well I'm sure you'll book will go some way to doing that because young people will see it and hear about and go. Oh well, if you can do it, I can do it too and I mean I'm very admiring of your generation that you're only twenty five year already a barrister and you've got a book out. Yet. The time for. I'm. Admiring. Also a bit. Irritated. This Andrew wearing a really jump seat. So in a very real way, slow the fuck down. Don't don't slow down to slow down this. It's amazing during it but if you are listening to this podcast and you're a young person and you were in any way interested in the law arguing your somebody who cares about justice and you're thinking, but that's not for me. That's all done in big palatial buildings with people in wigs and gowns, and they wouldn't have me I wouldn't know how to get there. Alexandra saying is this is for you and honestly it's not going to get any better. Until, we have more black and brown judges. Now, if you watch American television you would be. Forgiven for thinking every single judge in the world was a black man or a black woman because it's like the diversity higher, it's like Oh. We forgot to put any black people in the show there's a judge. Sure at the judgeship black woman. I wanted to Sitcom of s club seven, and yet there was a black judge in that. It's all. It's always a sitcom. because. They sang a song which I don't think will work in court. Would it? Have you heard Allison Glacier by song because I think that would turn. Yeah, yeah I think that might be swayed. If a difficult case. There was a point on song. This sort of love the first degree Oh that guys. Yeah. Of Loving the. All rise on with the money and free ride, it's to for the last. Matte all Russell. Is All rest. Rest. By case. Small. Season Body Roll. Inspired. I wish we had music as we walked into call. Own. Virus comes in we just have Lou will rise plan in the background. Like wrestling when you bring in a surprise witness Oh, my God here he comes out. It's the monitor was two doors down. He heard everything. Else thing. have. You ever done a case with a hit mom. Bought recently about him on it was great. But recently, yeah if anyone seen in the news, there's been I think really interested hype it. When I was, there's been a huge huck of an APP basically could encroach up. It's like what's up? Really I'm not going scripted service that's on people's phones and people have been talking on those platforms about hit mines, Hitmen bonds what was Man Cuddly. person. Must. Seventy thing you can do anything. I'm a feminist spot I said Hitman, really meant. Human being I think. About Charleston it's and it's fascinating because people are talking though no one will ever find these conversations because sewing encrypted and now it's been hacked and so that one of the most common things was you were saying about shots with a hip. And you'll be here loads more cases nothing really Oh, I'm so excited and it's Not. Liking someone enough to go. Jubilee, just leave them I. Mean I suppose there's some people that you can't leave. There are some unlivable people. You'd have to be in fear of your life, but even then I don't know how I would I would just stop googling but now it's made really put me off because I'm a big sometime fun and it's really put me off googling assassins. The musical because is that how they find you where you're like assassins cheap and actually two for one deal to want I think. People that are frustrated learn to soak tweets about people. Instead of getting assassins I, do all the time to know I'm like Oh, some people they're just so annoying, and that takes away my wilt kill. I I'm fascinated that he was gonna put something in someone's contact lenses. I've never heard of that. PLOT OR COLUMBA, may it was? Yeah. It was funny. What the newspapers called her they called her lion is because that was hurt. You Notice Ego Sung she was a fan of the eagles and of murder and. See that was her pseudonym on the Internet was lying is I think it was sixty nine but maybe I'm just throwing the on myself. To those line is You can't hide your attempt at murther eater. Tons out you cannot. Now he's waiting for she's sitting in prison. Great husband. I sounds very talking to me. Is Everything you came to the table that you didn't get say the only thing I'd say is that if they've already young people listening am I do try and put lots of. Sources of. Scholarships and information and things like that on social media. So I'm my social media handle is s expire star 'cause I'm from Essex. Knocks grace it? s expire. Line is. Great and that's your that your twitter, an instrumentation. Instagram Yeah Okay Essex Barrister. Got Anything to Plug Alison Oh yes, So my social media is listen spill on instagram on twitter and I got new podcast called wheel of misfortune. The I co present with fern Brady on it's all about the crunchy horrible things that we laugh at so it will be funerals and mental breakdowns. What else did we do drugs or we did Ron Drugs it was good fun. So not on drugs like the subject the I'm GonNa come and guest on facebook God. Yes you are. Yeah. Yeah. Checkout wheel of misfortune with Allison spittle and Fund Brady. I'm also doing a show called Shit and bre. Where Francesca Moody who produced the live show fleabag Richard? Is Putting a shed on stage at the so theater in another one at the traverse theatre Edinburgh, and then you can watch all the shows on zoom more some similar platform and I'm doing a show that I did before I was doing the guilty feminist. White rolls the dice in the story about how found my biological mother and I will be doing that. So you can live stream and all of the money doesn't go to me. None of the money comes to me. It goes to you talk about that like it's a selling point as if like, what was I just want people to know this is a retirement. The money. So similarly to Alexandra wanting bursaries for barristers, the money's GonNa go to new and emerging artists to have their first break in at and Brin. Hopefully next year Edinburgh back up and running next year at the festival I should say I always feel so sorry for the residents of Edinburgh because Comedians talk about Edinburgh brigadier on and go ahead and Brazil Standing Edinburgh going when Adam Brazil and I'm like it's not over we're just leaving it's a city it's a famous city. So hopefully at next year or if not the year after shed KNBR DOT COM, check it out. There's loads of amazing shows. Alexandra. I hope you do inspire a younger generation of barristers young people who are from background who? Wouldn't necessarily think that they were able to walk into that kind of field and I hope that more scholarships made available and the the your story inspires others. Thank you so much for coming on the show today. Please give it up for Alexandra. Alex Wellstone on her book is in black and white. Now. We like to finish with a musical act. Please welcome to the stage the Wonderful Agricole. Hello everyone. Thank you so much for having me again. Thank you for inviting Megan Yeah as you might have seen like I just wipe down my mic from with a biodegradable wipe I'm one of those annoying people that was a Germaphobe before the pandemic. Say like all the all my friends say to pay me and then the pandemic. Yes. So I've got all this down like I just the wipes and everything so. What's been happening in the pandemic? I'm really grateful for being alive. I'm grateful for working for a mental health charity through the pandemic. As you can imagine, it's permanently very intense for people in the country but. Yeah I had this amazing opportunity to be on the new version of Bob Marley's iconic Song One love recently alongside the Marley family alongside musicians from around the world and musicians from conflict zones and that was in support of UNICEF's curved support program that they're running right now say if you have the chance go and listen to that version because every stream benefits UNICEF and children around the world. and. Yeah just been really grateful to be able to use music and my voice during the pandemic. I think I've just always been influenced by purchase music and it runs through my writing the song I'm going to sing today is called bloodline. And I actually wrote this because it was just an expression of how I was feeling and it's only when I put it out in the world I realized that my music is inherently political just because of where I come from because I, come from a family that has experienced ancestors experienced colonisation. The way I write, it just comes three. And this on everyone relates to in a very different way of had people for mixed heritage backgrounds relate to it. People from similar backgrounds to myself and people that I just didn't imagine would relate to this song but today I. Want to dedicate this song to the people of Lebanon and buried because I can't even imagine the kind of injustice that they felt. And feeling right now. So this is a song called bloodline he can find every. and. I've kind of mixed it up a little bit as well. So you hear some other things. So I'm up in Dhabi folk singer I do jazz and soul, and I also play an instrument called the side Angie. Which I didn't bring today. One GIG. And I hope you can connect with this song and version of the song in some way. We've been running for so long. Their endless migrations within me. We tried so hard to belong. reincarnations of nations live in me. Of Created Ball, it is I cannot into a I am. Quake with new with. Cheese. That Zoo. ME. Hit. Long Me. Still running. Running running. Running mob. Da. It's still running. Running running. Running. You is. That the tree. US. Here on this land, they come the trade. We are the victims and the crime and I am people forever hiding. Who is the place that gives a shelter? Where all this sacred spaces I can. See the knife that. I'm me. ME. It's still running running. Eighty. It's still running running. Irani mob. Scene. ooh. and. Judo. Off. Hey. Talking Sir. Easy. To QUAKE WITH NO EPI, sins. Ally that does. A? Me Hey. It's still running running running. Running. It's still running running running. Running, demob. No. We? Have Champions muff fraying. Will keep them findings. In. Yahu. Champions we all their champions. No, Tom Lose because we. Champion. Opera. You album out. Tell us a bit about that. Yes. Yes aside from. The one love being out I've got a single outlined blind and the music videos out and it's made by an all woman crew. So directed by Romney. Good friend and yeah I'm going check and support women in film especially, and the dogs associate talented and we worked really hard lost October and out how many months later. On instagram I ms Amr it 'cause MS DOT COM recall. A you all K. A. You off and on twitter I'm rich K. H. E.. But just firemen instagram. It's easier. I'm thank you so much. That was just incredible. The. Door defense was shot. Came to the. Waiting trump. Sean Sherman everyone at the festival. You say. About this. I'm. A feminist. But. I've just realized. I'm on the rampage. He. I.

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212. Rebellion with Sophia Cleary and special guest Karen Hawkins

The Guilty Feminist

59:09 min | 4 months ago

212. Rebellion with Sophia Cleary and special guest Karen Hawkins

"This episode of the guilty feminist is brought to you by the satirical novel Fleishman is in trouble by taffy predessor. Available now in paperback. I'm a feminist. And I think part of that is being as resilient as your body would allow it anytime I'm kind of building strengthened. That oversees relative to each individual, but I want to be the kind of person had to be like. No I'm a feminist, and if suddenly revolution needed to take place. I would go the distance as much as my body would allow. But last night. It was my first night in Chicago. And it was so cold. That in my ten minute, walk back to the hotel from a yoga class. I stopped at a theater where a crowd of people were going into C-. Mean goals. And bought a ticket just to get inside in the war. The five minute mark I caved. It was so cold I couldn't feel my face. I was like what is this temperature? I swapped. It's not snowing here, but it was an ice wall in my face. And I couldn't upset like they call it the windy city that with gangsters I don't really. Know Wind! It's actually it's wins. Windows with an legend or something? It's wind in your. It's like an ice sheet and your face. I went to see a full length musical. Out of the cold for two hours. Talk. A little concerned because I went, and it was mean girls and I was nine. The thing is when y'all touring alone so either I'm talking to five hundred people on pretty. Those are my two states. So I went into mean goals alone I suddenly had the program, and I was like Oh my God. This is a literal you concert with us. But I sat down to a calendar mom. And then when the musical star the cut came up, he moved up a seat. He literally moved away from me. And he's. Pink Tall I was like this upsetting. That would upset me I. got into the music it was it was fine. It was it was a very good musical. It was very fetch. Aren't even go him. So. I recommend it okay. I'm a feminist, but I routinely canceled plans with my queer chosen family so that I can catch up on the bachelor. So sorry, but I need to know Peter Season anyone watching any. Yeah, okay, Wow! It is truly truly shocking. It's pretty good. It's pretty good. The bachelorette who rejected the now bachelor came back. She's like. She's like trying to get him right now and. She is not gonNA. Get in, but. I don't know we'll see. We'll see I'm a feminist, but I met a man Chicago today. Who told me he worked in risk analysis and I said. I already. Know I can't understand what you do and you haven't even explained it yet. In truth, I did not want to understand. My head is full of feminism and the strategy for the world problems. And comedy. And Its risk analysis is never going to be my job, so why can't yeah, that's fair. You don't have to know. I'm. Feel guilty about that one. That's good I. DON'T CARE financial risk. I am a feminist, but I definitely will pretend to be straight if it'll get me free drinks. Man. BY DRINK ALL Such a dyke, though, but sometimes like sometimes I. Don't you know and then some people? Now feel at home. Scientists are shoulder. I think straight women do I did a straight shoulder. Clean. The shoulder. To shoulder is not straight. It's a sort of it's the shoulder. She shouldn't do yoga like right out near. The is a little time so thirsty. Mutation take whatever they can from. From the. Norm exactly dominant groups like buy me drinks. Fix Shit in my house. I'M GONNA. Kick you out. No Sex sorry. I'm afraid I believe you're old. I'm feminist. But today. Meghan Markle and Prince Harry announced unbeknownst to Buckingham Palace allegedly. That they are moving to Canada and stepping down a senior royals. Because of the difficult time that Meghan Markle has had in Britain and the press has. Really been quite racist to her, and it's been a terrible time for them, but my spot on this is that. Aj plas reported Meghan Markle and her husband say they're stepping back a senior members of the royal family, and will work to become financially independent time fifty fifty between the UK north. America and I quote tweeted her nameless husband. It's finally went twin. And I'm delighted that Megan. MARKLE has decided to leave the UK for Canada because it got me over two thousand likes. I'm a feminist, but I'm addicted to the approval of two men. My therapist and my eyebrow stylists. I just need it. People all the time are like you have a male therapist, and I'm like I know, but you know what it is. I scream about how I hate men to a man, and he has to go yeah. And it's so healing for me. It's like truly so healing you pay. Pay! Specific you're like I don't WANNA female. I mean I wish. Me This obvious to have to hear what other Mennonite and at no point can say nobleman. Exactly she'll paying. You just goes. That makes total sense. Does he do skype sessions. Get you in touch interested in being hooked on. He's great. From Tyler. With made his wife Yes Safai Marian special guests. Talking about. This is the guilty feminist costume which we explore on goals, twenty-first-century feminists of the policies and insecurities which undermine the. Democrats with the PHYA cleary, and we're talking about rebellion. So have you had a feminist week or a guilty week. Oh my God well. I think it's more guilty. Really happened I think so I. Mean I'm in the throes of a break-up right now and. Guessed it. My ex lives across the hall from me and my apart guess that nobody gets. We did not oh, you're in the Sitcom friend. I'm trying to be very like there's boundaries your apartment, my apartment, but then I hear like. What are you doing? I? Hear I hear the door. I'm like a psycho fascist. Lesbian and like. You know this is not what I was the title I? Why do you live across from her? Did you beat each other in the building? Oh. The feminist part of me was like we WANNA move in together right, and it's like, but I need my autonomy, and I don't want. Give up my studio apartment in the studio across from me opened up and it was like like. Literally took. To monthly victor from some random studio across the way I simply can't so you now? I'd have to leave or effectively with your ex literally. That's such a great Sitcom. Oh, I know I'm reading a script. Of course. Yeah. It's like I'm GonNa? Turn the pain into money. As my friend, Kema Bob. WHO also says don't get mad. Get material. That is so helpful, the hero. The lesbian across the whole. When can we expect that on HBO? Talk to me. I don't know yeah. Hopefully I would love for that to happen in like a year. What we need to brainstorm title for it. It's something cook okay. It's too close right now to post right now. Oh, my God! That could be a backup type of. US Right now. She just got chills like. My life to use that. Don't move in with me, but moving opposite me because I think that's so romantic and sexy as well. Literally, it was like Frida and Diego. You know it's like everyone will covet are amazing Zimmerman. Yeah, as long as we're doing well you. Know I already a coveted urges yeah so lovely because you can just pop in. Your Jas also can like sex each other and be like this door between you this hallway between you. It's literally the bet then. You're like a lesbian laughing like you're going to be just always sexting across the sexy whole. Yeah. That's how it's going to be well. I took a lot of pride in it. Because I was like I'm the opposite of a U. Haul lesbian like. Area type of course I was actually. Pack you will SBA for those. Who have not heard it's like lesbians who literally Meet Week One and then week to get a U. Haul together and move in, and they might even live across the country from each other. You if you're living internationally, basically a thing that you might bring all your possessions in. To bring position a moving truck a moving moving so moving van. Yes, so you are not you lesbian. Absolutely neuro me. Hold SBN yes. Yes. My whole life. This is my whole. Stay on your side of. This I was. This is my apology. My whole thank you. To get out of the building. Though that's you need to share that whole thing is, it's like so we broke up. I was like okay. I'm going to do thirty days. No contact because that's like healthy or whatever, but it's like okay. But. It's not a thing. No one ever said study. Because I can't look at instagram. You know what I mean. It's like the stories and Oh God, so it's like okay. Jay, stories about you I don't know. I don't love ocean me to look now. I'll look now. You'RE GONNA know okay, don't. I. I don't know this woman, okay, do have to say though I. Don't WanNa. Be like their their day them. They're not her. I I don't want to Miss Gender in the break-up. That's violent anyway. Yeah, that's Yeah I. Just have to be clay. Are we okay to put any of this out? Might, they listen to this. I pray not I. Don't think so okay. Then, not a fan of the show fine, let's go you. Know look breakup a hard for everybody. We wish you and them very well. Thank you and we hope you both healing in time and find living arrangements that are let us be clear less awkward. Thank you, thank you, so we wish you both well in your feminist journeys together or apart clearly apart by the look in your eyes. We Amen. I will I feel like I'm doing some kind of. Lesbian, divorced and being baptized. Yes, absolutely. And Should you need to? You will at any point. We will club together this audience, and by you one thank you. Thank you so much. The support means everything. We should upset about hostile feminist breakout. Because there's a little poverty that wants to do a reductions article colds. Is He assist, or are you just breaking up with him? Off Now. Because I have a very very frontier recently broke up with an assistant. It was very very series, but a lot of times now I think every single time sun breaks up with someone. They like I've looked on facebook I've done this checklist. Sociopath and I'm like. Possible though that when you break up somebody, their behaviors become more self interested, and for little, while mole closed off Ns empathetic, and those also qualities that you might see on a facebook checklist of five things to watch for an associated pack. Because they're pulling up the shutters. I, really like to know how to do a feminist break. Oh, not that I want to break up with Utah Solit- ski. The producer of this podcast is listening to this edit in London going. because. These tapes are getting sent back to London. He's editing them and listening to the footage so I. Don't want him to go why? Never mentioned this topic before. I have not met someone in. CHICAGO, I've met a lot of French fries. Some of them officer would consider leaving you for but. No. That's not what's happening him. How rebellious would you say you also? Oh, my God. Barely I have to challenge myself. I'm like a classic people pleaser. Actually I was yoga the other day. and. There was an exercise where everyone had to turn to the back of the room one woman. Instead of turning to the back of the room, she misunderstood with the teacher a so she turned from her left side to the right, so there's now eight hundred people turning one. That's my nightmare and one woman, looking the other way and the teachers. What was fine? You'll still doing decide to stay. And so she was not doing the excise looking at the whole class she lost like. Five seconds you had on putting around and that's because the pool. The gravitation to conformity is strong US and we want to be. The right. Way And doing whatever and is doing. Because, I think part we tribal animals, and partly because of the scientists in which we've been raised putting a premium on that beyond what is just about cooperation communication which society needs to function? Yeah, no, I'm such a people pleaser like Oh, God. I'm scared. Someone's going to notice not even to crowds. Though like one time I had a friend's credit card and I was buying a coffee like, but I can't use his card. They're going to know that it's not me. You know and he was like no one. No one cares. Yeah, it's really fun see I'm not my. My husband Thompson inskeep is like that to the extent. He may at the story out. He has that kind of power to the extent. Where one time we got on the train, going to meet my Godson. Who was somewhere else when we got on the train? They said unless you've got this ticket for this railway. You have to get off. We're going, so I said I. don't care if they kick us off. We need to get off the next stop I don't believe this little boy. Wait any longer and Tom went new. We've got the wrong ticket. And I was like we have to get off and I was like what I am not getting off I have been messed with too much today and as a child waiting for us, you can get off and he did. Yes and when I got there I picked up my Godson. Ranch and then Tom was like a half hour behind us, and we took the Piss the whole lunchtime going. Oh, well, he was like. Oh, ordering menu like really. That's a little cray cray ordering what it says. You have to have the dressing on the salad. You don't want to be I. Relate to him, told what to do that. Now I think he is changed. This was some years ago. He's got more rebellious and I have also got more about. I do not miss in the middle. I would now I think right to the top of the train your leading the way leading the way for him. That's good a little bit. Just as you get older, you realize that thing of no one can definitely definitely yeah, and also just being like actually I'm going to say no to that. You know what I mean like. That feels like a rebellion in its own way, people billion. No, no come on, come on, come out for the bit and you're like no. That feels like a mini rebellion firming it really does someone says come out, you know. About rain. And I'm like I'm not tonight. I need to sleep or something, and even though that's boring. That's my mini rebellion. IOM Some I don't want. We will talk about more important rebellions than. Thinking this is some Tame Ruben Guy. She's going drinks. She stayed on trained with the ticket. This is some serious white lady rebellion. Anyone's thinking now. There is more to come. Highly guilty feminist. Just let you know. We had a live performance where an audience can come, because it's in the open air, it's at a festival called the new normal nothing to do with scrimshaw the same name, but we will be there. A show tickets are going fast as you can expect, it's a legacy with a Q.. U. E.. London Saturday, the eighth of August at two PM doors open at noon. Get tickets now details are on our website. Also residency is at kings place. That's when we recorded for the vast majority of shows throughout the year before lockdown and kings place like many live news is really really struggling at the moment, because they can't have shows there and they need our help, so if you go to our website, you will see a link for save. Kings place if you have been to shows there. There if you've enjoyed shows there if you enjoyed the recordings, we've done there and you've got anything at all to spare. Go to the kings place London website or our website and check it out and see how you can help. We hope to see as many of you as possible at Liga think London on the eighth of August was so excited to be back with an audience again. We can't wait. It'll all be very safe socially distanced so if you feel ready to come back out and being a live audience, we would just absolutely be hysterical tabby there now back to the focused. All right before we bring our guest out. We have to do some. Suffice! Are you ready for. God. Welcome to the staged incredible so. Thank you, thank you so much. It's so nice to be back in Chicago. Thank you so much for being here. I've been here. I've been to Chicago I. WANNA. Say like three or four times always in the winter. Why I don't know But the last time I was in Chicago. I think it was like four years ago and when I was here. I was straight. But now I'm here and I'm gay right so. That's really cool for me. Some gay people in the audience can probably understand this, and maybe some straight people to who haven't like yet transcended heterosexuality. But there's this feeling you get when you're like. I'm one hundred percent straight like like when you're in the closet, you're just like I'm sure you know. That was very much my vibe like her really long time and believe it or not and. It's just so hard like you'll have a feeling. That's like you. Know get away. It's like it's like a bad horror movie or something. It's like truly very scary, but I'm locating through therapy and twelve step and et Cetera that I. Think the reason why I came out so late is because of this people pleasing thing that I mentioned earlier like yeah some I'm very good I'm straight, you know. Like when you're a people pleaser in the patriarchy. It's just like whatever you say Jason for Thirty Years Right. Like literally for thirty years, and so I came out late, I came out when I was thirty. You guessed it. I'm thirty one. So it's been. It's been a crazy year and a half a lot, so my sexuality is shifting and also something like gender stuff to like. I was like we talk like I'm gay. My also non binary like. Maybe I want to use the pronouns, and then as I, know no I'm a woman and I was like I'm a woman and I. Know I'm a woman right? And there's this one quality, and it's like a normal woman because I, would murder by poisoning. Simply the only criteria. Absolutely, the criteria. So. Yeah the people pleasing people, pleasing is a disease man like I like guys would just be like Yeah I. Do you want to go on a date and I'd be like. You want you know and it's just like it's just over and over just like end up caught up in all these relationships with these men. Anyway I came out to my mom and my dad. I said you. Know Mom Dad I'm gay and my mom said. And I was like wow, the repression in our family is in a stroll. It's. It's just deeply ancestrally. Didn't come out until I. Did and I look over at my dad. I'm just like yeah, anyway. I'm just never prioritized my own desire. You know and I. Look over at him and he's like. You took breaking down right and I see. Like! See like coming out of his mouth. Dust, he's turned into a Husk of a man. At this point, it's just like this dust coming out and in the dust is just in cursive. I'm gay tube can't say it, you know. Like I truly do I. DO wonder about my I think they both might be home all. So I mean when it's by optical. So yeah, I came out, and I went to a friend's Bachelorette party like pretty recently afterwards and feeling very like. I'm. Not like not like screaming all the time, but you know I had a new sweetie and I mentioned my partner. It's all straight people at this Bachelorette party by the way, so it was sort of my first encounter with that chilling reality, you know being the only person who's gay in a room. And I mentioned my partner Babo by comes out. I'm gay and just see wash across all these women's faces. They're like. I think this weekend just turned out to be crazier than I thought. And I was like. Oh, no, what's going on here like oh? God and throughout the whole weekend was sort of like this real. World Road Rules House. Me and like street people in their Bachelorette party like customs like why am I paying six hundred dollars to be here like no one knows and. So I'm at this, house and I'm having some introvert time like yoyoing around outside I. Don't know what I'm doing I'm just like I'm just doing my dyke sports and. And there's this outdoor shower and this woman is in the outdoors our and she comes out and she sees me and she's like. She's like covers up because I'm a pervert, lesbian or whatever. And then I was like Oh, but it was like this dynamic of like. She's like freaked out by me, but she's also into me and she's like wondering what's going to happen and we had had this long conversation like the night before drunkenly where she was telling me all about her shitty job at Amex right. In this moment, I'm piecing together. I'm like! Why are you covering yourself I? Don't understand and I'm like. Oh, right like she thinks I'm so into her. She's into me because I just listened to her