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S1 E3: Sex, Money and Nazis
This is a CBC podcast. Discover what millions around the world already have. Audible has Canada's largest library of audiobooks including exclusive content curated by and four Canadians experienced books in a whole new way were stories are brought to life by powerful performances from renowned actors. And narrators with the free audible app, you can listen anytime anywhere, whether you're at home in the car or out on a jog. The first thirty days of the audible membership or free, including a free book go to WWW dot audible dot CA slash CBC to learn more, hey listeners before we start this episode. I wanna tell you about another podcast. I think you might enjoy reveal from the center for investigative reporting and PR ex host Alison and reporters spend months, sometimes years, reporting gripping stories. For one episode, they analyzed more than thirty million mortgage records finding that many US cities. White people were more likely to get home loans. Sometimes three times more likely you can find reveal on apple podcasts or wherever you get uncover, escaping Nexium, learn more at reveal news, dot org. Previously on escaping Nexium. As there's an and Ammon here. She's like, oh, my God is she turned her head to the side and she saw the k.. And then are now just like what the fuck. I'm I have 'cuse initial beside the. Sarah Edmonson connect the dots k. r. Keith neary a. m Allison Mack, everyone's freaking out like I should have been freaking out. How did they miss this. Sarah has Keith Ramirez initials burned onto her body. She gave devastating collateral to be part of what she thought was a women's only group in Nexium. Now, Sarah is pretty sure that group dos is run by Keith. What does the Upton. What kind of person would do this. To try to answer this. I'm going to cover a lot of ground what may feel like a wild ride, but stick with me. It's worth it. I'm Josh block. This is a scaping Nexium from CBC podcasts, uncover. Chapter three sex money and Nazis. Vanguard, happy, happy. Very, thank you for giving us the opportunity to build these. Just these great team, these amazing family this week. Thank you very much. We love you. Love the whole thing that because pitched as is it originally, it was Keith's. Birthday was create that day, then it turned into a weekend and then it turned to into a week when my last week was twelve days. It's almost half a fucking month. V. week is the big annual celebration of Vanguards birthday guard week was summer camp picture the Catskills in the dirty dancing held on the Catskills and upstate New York. The bus would pull up from the airport and like you'd get out and people be, they're welcoming us. Latin music playing and top forty hits. People leaving like like dance parties come a lot. Hundreds of Keith spa lowers gathered here cheer at night. They would congregate in an auditorium and take turns paying tribute to him. Sometimes song sometimes dance maybe is lying in the grass with the stars and the holding hands or v, we could be French and friendship or could be the people. Sara love to be week. She went to twelve of them all the best parts about Nexium. She was surrounded by people who felt the same commitment to personal growth. They were in the presence of Keith someone who they admired and loved someone. They were sure was leading them on a path to better themselves and the world. It was just like it was so great. So fun. I mean, honestly, Josh, like I learned to just assume that he all of these things that were weird were based on the foundation that he's this, the most ethical humanitarian man in the world, and he wouldn't do anything that wasn't within that framework. The FBI claims that Keith was using self improvement organization for darker purposes, Keith has pleaded not guilty to the charges against him. And his lawyer say they have evidence that will exonerate him. Keith rarely does interviews nor to those who remained loyal to him. But I've tracked down former girlfriend's business partners and followers who are willing to speak. Most of them are women and through their perspectives. You can start to see that there was more to Keith than the person Sarah used to celebrate. Oh. Check tech one-two-one-two-one-two. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Standing outside the Roxy hotel in New York. Let's go. Fan, you want to sit in my hotel, acquire players. Became. Can you take us back to the first time you met him? Tell me about your first meeting with he said to me, you must be Barbara Bush and like, yeah, I am. Is that in you? And he said, I'm Keith Ranieri. And you know, when you meet Keith, their assists a boyish charm about him and this quiet intensity when Barbara Bouchet join Nexium. Back in two thousand, he's told her she was special that he had visions about her arrival. I need dropped the classic pickup line. Here's a copy of my favorite Ayn rand book. I want you to read it. Can you start reading it? He said, because your dad ni, you're the heroine, your Dag ni in the atlas shrugged and you have finally come here and I knew you're coming. He said, you're my dad. Acne an, I'm the book's hero. John Galt. It worked part of me felt flattered in complimented Barbara, moved to Knox woods the neighborhood where Keith lived near Albany New York near where Nexium has its headquarters, and she became Kice. Girlfriend heath would over the years. Reveal to me things himself about his childhood Barbara. Is tall and imposing she can talk about Keith for hours without coming up for air. And then he told me that his parents divorced when he was young and that he moved in with his mother and his mother was a severe alcohol, keeps dad. James was an advertising exac in the madman era. His mom VERA was a dance teacher. They lived in suffer New York, a couple of hours down the highway from Albany. And so he learned to become a nocturnal person because of his mother and that in his teenage years that he would kind of like need to watch her care for her in the evening because she would sometimes take medicine drugs and drink and in. So we had this kind of precarious relationship with his mom. That was unsupervised. Keith also told me that when he was thirteen years old, he believes that's when he had what he deems this. Transformation of himself. That's when he believed that he quote became enlightened and his last attachment, the outside world disappeared. Kice built up methology around his childhood. There's those claims. He was speaking in full sentences by age one and reading by two. He sells himself as someone who mastered college level math at age twelve. He says he was an east coast judo champion at eleven, and that he was a piano prodigy who turned down a scholarship to Juilliard in this father sent. He's barb when he was seven or eight. We had them tested any so intelligent. This was around the time, Barbara and Kice relationship was falling apart. And he said, what we did is we told Keith about how gifted and how intelligent he was. He's, it was almost like a switch off and suddenly overnight. He turned into like Jesus Christ, and then he was superior and better than everybody like he was a diet. He said it was that dramatic in that found, he said it went right to his head. His dad told Barbara that when Keith was thirteen, his mom called him in a panic because dozens of young girls were calling the house, and she was overhearing conversations with them where he was telling every single woman to say every single girl the same thing. I love you. Your special one, newer, the important. You're the one in my life, and I love you. And she says any saying this to different girls. He is clearly lying because they're all not special. I did not expect uncover such obvious links between this man portrayed as a womanizing grew and his childhood. But there it is. We haven't been able to verify Barbas accounts. Kice mom is no longer alive. She died when he was eighteen. We reached out to his dad. He hasn't responded. But what's fascinating is that if these stories are true at an early age, Keith was already experimenting with being a grew and playboy. I literally my first sight of Keith was his rear end either going through or coming into my sister's bedroom window. Heidi Hutchinson, and a younger sister. Gina hung out with Keith in the nineteen eighties. At this point, Keith is in his early twenties on Christmas Eve in nineteen Eighty-four Heidi says he wasn't like other guys. They knew he was an nonconformist and that was attractive. Gina was dating him. I was just, I Dina was very young. She was fifteen about to be sixteen. He was stuck in the window. But towards about germ door. Ho ho ho. It Santa Claus. They had some splaine into do so Keith tried to play it to me and to our family as if he did have serious intentions for Gina, and he did, you know, see her as his romantic interest, possibly future wife. So a long term committed relationship. Heidi says, even their mother bought it, but it wasn't true. Gina eventually found out that there were others and she was heartbroken. Was Usery. It was not right. Heidi. Gina would learn that Keith had multiple partners, including poly-amorous relationship with three women who became known as spiritual wives and would remain with him for decades. Years later poly-amorous became part of Keith teachings. Like when he told Sarah and nippy that men are inclined to have multiple partners. Keith does not sound like your typical casanovas. One of his friends of that time described him as pretty nerdy. Did mass puzzles stuff together for fun. We were good friends. We hung out all day every day launching around in sweat pants, and our hair messy. We haven't had a shower or Eric route is now a computer programmer in Philadelphia for nearly ten years. He was one of Keith's closest friends. He has always wanted to have some sort of money generating machine going on where he could focus on non business. Things eventually do some, you know, good with do something constructive with he was in the m by Keith worked briefly for the multi level marketing company and way something about the structure of it captured his imagination. He dreamed of starting a company like it. Keith was fresh out of college. He was into yoga and eastern philosophies, and his house became a kind of hippy hang out. There always seemed to be a group of people hanging around him like jeanane, Heidi. They were mostly young women. An Eric says, there was something about the way the women were acting. Around keith. I don't know. Some people just seem to have stars in their eyes, and a lot of these young women were were interested in the sort of thing. We're very attracted him dazzled with him or infatuated one week he's drew people to him was with talk of the human potential movement, the idea of unlocking people's untapped abilities and how can bring about positive change in the world. Hit. He's the word empower, but he would motivate them to fulfil whatever their gifts and talents might be to pursue those, but to pursue them in a way that Keith benefited from their successes in their pursuits. This is an idea I've heard again and again, Keith listens very carefully as part of his charm. He makes you feel like you're the only person in the room that you can accomplish anything, but that he also uses people around him for his own ends that he wanted his own money-making machine. Heidi was there when he was working on the first part of this plan? Pay me a picture of what what it was like to go over there. Everyone's feeling around djing around, you know, Keith, his gotta notebook. Arrese got a rubik's cube, and there was planning imploding and packaging of Keith as guru. As part of this packaging kief took something called the mega test if he did well, it would prove he had a super high q.. There was a take home exam. I was kind of sock that the IQ tests was an open book. Task key scored forty six at a forty eight in nineteen eighty nine. The Guinness Book of world records listed keys Munari as one of the smartest people in the world. This became a huge selling point. And he milked it. From the beginning of Erica have with the whole world. Opportunity. Opportunity to do more have more to. This promotional video is from nineteen Ninety-two. The venture Keith clan landed on was called consumers byline. It was a club that gave you access to discounted prices on everything from household appliances, to spa occasions in like Amway, it was a multi level marketing company. So members could also earn money by recruiting other members. It's fascinating the opportunities available in this country. I don't mean fancy investments. This video features the actor Eddie Albert of the popular nineteen sixty sitcom green acres and a chair faced key through neary central message. Keith is one of the smartest men in the world, and he's inviting you to realize your dreams by becoming a partner in his company to show you again. Yes, happy to see you too. It should amazing idea as well. Sometimes it even amazes me brought consumers. Byline is wonderful, and it's working. This is the version of Keith Tony tally fell in love with, oh yeah, I did. I did love him. I mean, he was funny. It was smart and he the first time they met. She was skeptical. God gifted, you all this brilliance, why aren't you cure cancer? Why aren't you doing something magnificent? And he said, oh, I will be, I'm going to change the world. Don't you wanna come along. She did. So she left her husband to be with Keith traveled the country pitching consumers, byline, Keith spoke to packed Dettori sometimes as many as five thousand people, he would light up. I mean, I think that need for that admiration of all those people, you know, chanting his name waiting for him to come on stage and he was good. He was engaging and people loved him, and he would do q NHL exhaustion. And he would go online if. Needed to just answering the questions. Tony has a theory about Keith that he uses women to prop himself up. He has systematically replaced each of the key women with someone with more connections, more accolades, more money. I say that he just keeps improving. The last model when consumers by line was shut down. After thority said it was a pyramid scheme. Key started looking for his next project and the next woman who entered his life with more accolades and more connections was Nancy. Saltzman Laurence's mom, Tony was the one who introduced them. The keys Nancy's ability to be able to manipulate people. They waited his whole life for her and that if she just listened to him and fouls him, they will create something better than the world has ever seen. Nancy was a personal development coach, a believer in the human potential movement and trained in hypnotherapy. He was moved by her now only her ability to to hypnotize but how well she could handle room. The way Tony tells it, Nancy and Keith have an epic meeting. This is nine hundred ninety eight. It spans four days and when it's over the executive success programs born a few years later, it would be rebranded as Nexium. We found this video of Keith talking about it online. When Nancy Solomon, I met me and I was demonstrating the technologies he's very well versed in many human performance technologies like consumers by line. It will have a multi level marketing structure, but selling personal growth instead of dishwashers, Nancy, Saltzman myself. We wanted to do these results without talent like machine, Keith will be the resident grew and be called vanguard. Nancy is named president. We'll get the decidedly less sexy title of prefect talent on top. We can do some things that are pretty fancy. In nineteen ninety eight as Keats were nearly takes on the role of vanguard. Sarah is training to be an actor at concordia university in Montreal. She has seven years away from meeting Keith, and in those years, he will work on his new persona. He will not only promote himself as one of the smartest people in the world, but that he's in lightened. He's not just an entrepreneur. He's now a grew. He claims to be a renunciation someone who has given up as tach meant to all material things. He doesn't own a cell phone and he's driven around by members of his inner circle. He sleeps most of the day and is up late into the night. He spends a lot of time filing patents for everything from rational inquiry in the sash system to a find my phone app. He greets women in Nexium with a kiss. On the lips. He crafts hundreds of personal growth workshops. He hires PR consultants and people with political connections. He wants a global reach that we seem remarkably little of the world. He spends most of his time with an few kilometers of his home, but he's able to bring the rich and powerful to him. One of his biggest successes in the early days of Nexium is enrolling Claire and Sara Bronfman heiresses too. The billion dollar Seagram liquor fortune. Can I say sisters. Ninety? Do I review to the Bruins rarely talk to the press, but in two thousand nine, Sara and Clare spoke with Paul Vandenberg thirteen hundred talk radio, a private radio station in Albany. Sarah described her love of next. I thought it was undoubtedly the coolest thing I've ever done the Bronfman's were huge, get for the organization. They brought money and prestige and some of their emissions dovetailed nicely with Keith. Had this calling this vision to find people who were humanitarian figures in the Wilton work with them. You know, saying to myself, I wanna meet the Dalai Lama and going on pursuing that goal and making it happen. I mean that really the tools of Nexium goal setting program in. That's really that year in two thousand nine, the Dalai Lama accepted an invitation to speak in Albany. Petition the Cup beat some new people. Sara and Clare were key to making this happen. Watching the video of the event. You can see Sarah and Claire sitting on stage with his holiness. They are beaming new friend have. Majority to share vanguard and prefect sit in the front row also beaming here is one of the most famous and respected spiritual leaders in the world acknowledging Keith. The next time there would be this much attention on Clare Bronfman was when she was arrested by the FBI in July of two thousand eighteen on charges, including racketeering conspiracy. She has pleaded not guilty. Her lawyer says Claire was charged because the government doesn't agree with her beliefs. To learn more about Keith. I've traveled to Clifton park where Nexium is headquartered, weird wires to ninety. I've been trying to get in touch with anyone from Nexium for months, but no one's responded. So my plan is to go undercover, walk in the front door and sign up for some Nexium courses. I hide a digital recorder, my breast pocket, and I leave my producers in the car. The offices are a one story, brick building with a cheap looking, Nexium, sign screwed to a bulletin board out front. There's a few reserved parking spots, one for Lawrence salesman and another for Nancy. Knock on a glass door. No one answers. I try a second door and it's unlocked. So I enter. Inside a large portrait of vanguard and another of prefect on the wall. There's a central meeting area with a number of joining offices, and there's a woman who seems very surprised to see. Hi. Yeah, I'm here. Is this the executive success program. I'm Josh. I was wanted to find out about some programs, a friend of mine taking some courses. This is not how invision things going. I've just wanted anyone that could tell me about some of the programs that you would need to be meeting somebody. How did you get it. But I knocked on that door. I had heard new recruits were love bombed showered with warmth and affection. When they signed up this supposed to be all kinds of excitement about bringing a new member into the next in family. This woman is not particularly enthused by presidents. Oh, I'm just leaving snowing around not know who do I contact? Well, you would need to. I think you would need to contact your friends who ever refer you and that they will give. They will give you contact someone here to me. It turns out Nexium does not take walk ins. Thank you. Are we sure. It really was always like your salvation is right around the corner with the next class. Like what, if the next, how many times a heard, what if the next class is the one that resolve this issue. He was not just the rich and powerful gravitated to Keith Scott star was one of the people who fell so hard for the next promise. He moved his whole family to the area. He still lives close by, but he's no longer a member of Nexium. We moved most recently from North Carolina appear to be a part of of the community into do more classes into invest in in personal development and really didn't be more humanitarian do something like that in the world, Scott and his wife spent over one hundred fifty thousand dollars on Nexium courses. We'll. So we're, we'll go is the what they call the sports Barnes. Scott is taking me and my producer Kathleen on drive. I mentioned it was one of the weirdest parts and caught the triathlete. He's wearing a perfectly fitted gingham button up shirt as well as best. He looks like he stepped out of an l.l bean catalog. I finally get the geography where in the suburb of Clifton park, which is just outside Albany, and within Clifton park, there's a little neighborhood called Knox woods where most people in Nexium live Scott drives us to a spot just ten minutes from Knox woods, and we stop outside what looks like a barn. It's a single story. Red building made of wood and surrounded by farmers fields, Scott doesn't want to get out of the car. He's nervous about being spotted Elvas. I caught like health court. They're like like no pun intended because it was literally on the volleyball court. If Scott wanted one on one guidance, he would come here at midnight to watch Keith, play volleyball every Tuesday and Thursday. This is how Keith made himself available to his followers. But so people would come to see him. And when I went, it was it was always a little awkward. I'm trying to picture this. It's fifteen sixteen in the ball game. And then suddenly someone comes up and it's like my inner deficiency is and I can't get through it. And so you pause the game and he starts talking to them, you know, in my experience more like, okay, you know ten people on the core. They just finished their fifth game and they always play seven. So, hey, go, go, ask your question real quick. Your coach or something might say, we'll come to volley ball and ask Keith all give him a heads up that you're gonna come. It's probably gonna be three minutes long and look for your opening. So it is. It does create this sense of fifteen people on the sidelines sitting there waiting for their chains. Okay. Yeah. Now is my chance at an excitement or at least a attention if you will of doing that. I mean, the sports barn is like barely heated and people come in and all hours. The nights, the parking lot would be full like, you know, one AM so it just again, it was a weird thing, but but kind of cool in that way. Cool at the time until he learned about another side of the company. You kill Duke. Yet duped and like what's the word? What's the opposite of naive? Like like more cynical. Close thera and let her know I'm here Knox woods. Hey, guys. Hey, I'm sending, oh house there in if you rented an apartment close by and spent at least a few months here every year. By the time they left Nexium, they in the process of finalizing plans to move here, like this is so weird that you're not would things creating. Okay. Okay. I. I'm trying to see the place through Sarah's is an imagine how she saw Keith. On first glance, nothing unusual stands out here in Knox woods homes that belong to Nexium members are scattered around the neighborhood. It's quaint, it's focus like any suburb. But this is definitely not your David Koresh hole up in a compound kinda group. So are you doing like a series of podcast, Lori, Christina lives here? She's a self appointed head of what she says is neighborhood watch and she's taking me on tour. There's a car in the driveway. Taus Lori thinks she spotted Karen under Wainer. One of Kice longest-standing girlfriends one of his spiritual wives. I have a million questions for Karen. Did Kice create dos? If so, why. Did she know women were being branded with Kice initials. So and there's someone in the car right now. Karen is about one hundred meters away. She gets into her car and searched the drive towards me. So I wave. She waves back and she rolls down her window. Hi, I'm with the CBC. What did you say a wave like legit way. Karen isn't the only member of Nexium. I was hoping to find here today. Kief. Last time I got Keith. We've heard rumors Kice left the area when they see him watching. We'll text me and say, hey, you know, keeps walking a week after we return home from this trip. He's arrested in Mexico. We're going to loop around this way. And that is apparently if what Sara remembers is where the branding may have taken place in his strange to be standing here. This is the home where Sarah says her and floor. Other dos slaves were led blindfolded. This is where the branding took place. How the other units, if they were home, didn't hear any kind of noise or screaming. It's kind of crazy, right? This is where they all come home to roost the mothership. The mothership is three drab grey row houses on curb street. It's ground zero of Keith harem. The library, I believe is his one of his man caves. The second floor of another townhouse is referred to by some as key sly berry and others as Sexton. It's got a hot tub and a loft bed and is a focus of the FBI's investigation. You can see there's cameras, the camera according to the FBI Keith's, harem extended beyond the women. He lived with the harem walk. I've seen the harem meet up happen right in front of my condo, won the girl or the woman coming from one direction key from the other. The FBI claims heath has a rotating group of fifteen to twenty women with whom he maintained sexual relationships, and these women agreed to keep it secret and agreed to have sex with no one else, but keep many of these women held important positions in the company. Sarah says she did not know about this part of keeps life. It wasn't until she left that she realized just how much she'd missed. What I now know is that of the twelve women, all of them, but me knew about each other. I was the only one it didn't know about all of them, but all of them knew about each other in knew about me. Barbara Bouchet says, she also missed a lot. She was Kice girlfriend for eight of the nine years. She was in Nexium. She was the woman who keeps the -duced by lending copy of our shrugged. Barbara is a financial planner. She says she was making a million dollars a year when she moved to Knox woods in two thousand to dedicate herself to Nexium. She Venturi held a senior position in the company and joined the board of directors. But when she found out she was not keys only girlfriend, she was upset over the next three days. Keith would not talk to me, but the whole army, his inner circle women are making visits. And now what they're doing is saying, you know, you came into this lifetime to do this. This is your calling. You're here to make a difference, your the Dag ni. Year, his soulmate news, you're his soul partner. Barbara was told she was the chosen one. She was special, Keith was so sensitive to her moods that even her diet could affect him even if they weren't in the same place. It had an effect on him almost like someone was having an argument in the room. It would drain of his energy. And he was an important man with a powerful mission. If Keith was in a bad mood, Barbara would be blamed would call and say. Keith told us that you're having an issue. And he's laid out flat on the couch. You just zap them of all of his energy. Don't you realize he's here to do bigger things. We also told her she needed to address issues around jealousy because they had a more important mission and they needed her on board. Okay, great. A couple of things. I came down with a really bad cold last night. So my boys has more questions for Barbara about what life was like inside this exclusive part of Nexium. She tells me that this group of women had a special role and making a positive difference in the world and that we found each other as often foles. And that's when she starts talking about Nazis. Aweso propagated done in our previous lifetime, that many of us have been during the Nazi type. That we have live previous past lives, and you know, we had reincarnated over the different centuries. You know. In different roles for different reasons. And that, you know, we came into this lifetime to try to repair some of the the, the previous lifetime. And when you say that that that you were the group was reincarnated from the Nazi era. Was he suggesting that you were in fact Nazis. Well, you know, some of us he did and some of us he did it. So, for example, with me. My name is boo shy than the word shy in French me, butcher. And a key leader. The doc- time was right hatred, Reinhard. And his nickname was the butcher approx. And so they decided that I was him at a previous paths lifetime. And is that something that you believed or continue to believe is true. That I do believe personally, but I've lived other lifetime. I'm one of those kind of people that subscribed to the philosophy that my soul has been reincarnated their things and places and times that are very familiar to me because I leave that I been there before. I know it and I do believe that our Foale reincarnate. Let's just take a moment to absorb this. So Barbara was hydrate, Reinhard one of the architects of the holocaust and then see salesman was Hitler. Keith was lucky enough to be the reincarnation of a leader of the partisans fighting to save the Jews. Part of their task was now to evolve their souls, and this would acquit them to do the humanitarian work necessary to atone for past Tross ities one way to evolve. Their souls was to have sex with Keith. Studied in the Buddhist religion and different kind of GU brew, you know, grew teachers who are all being believed that they could move an energy, the shock GRA energies within the person both by their words or energy their teachings in if you have sex, you can move the cool the weedy energy. I have to say this ranks is one of the most creative ways to convince someone to have sex with you. Barbara tells me there's another layer to keys him. He said, if a woman was in love with him, should be more loyal and committed the sixth ended beyond the inner circle to other women working in the company, having intimacy with his key women gave him these extra degrees of freedom. Control influence and the ability to manipulate because let's face it when you're in love with someone, you know it wasn't there, Amos thing that goes, what you won't do. You will do for love. I wanna be clear again, the vast majority of Nexia members were not privy to this talk of reincarnated Nazis nor Keith's harem. This was all kept under wraps as much as possible. Barbara says, Keith wanted to be publicly known as a scientist. So when word got out that Keith was talking about reincarnated Nazis, he was furious. Are you aware that Keith had a commodities account in my name in the first year? Okay. I've told you about the sex and the Nazis. Now I need to tell you the money. So he says me, he says, I have a formula to trade commodities, and I was wondering if you would experiment with me Barbara says she'd only known keys for five months when he made a proposal. And he says, if you put in twenty five thousand and I put in twenty five Bishop both put in twenty five thousand dollars to test out his formula to beat the commodities market. But I'm a conservative money manager and I had to think about it for a while. 'cause I don't gamble. I never bought penny stocks. Are you going to be surprised to hear she agreed. So once I agree to that, then he said, will then, hey, can I borrow my twenty five thousand from you? So now she was in for fifty grand. This is the method of the con artist. This is how they do it the shoe, long a month. Later key showed up at Barbara's house at midnight. He's crying, beat bread and sweating. He said something happened today that he had never thought could happen. They had made a risky bet, and the broker said, they know six hundred thousand dollars and they needed it in ten days and like non having a heart attack because he council my name. I don't know commodities. I don't know what's going on and I'm confused days. What do you mean? Hundred? And so I had to cover the six hundred thousand. It didn't come back. Two weeks later, they need three hundred thousand more. Week later. Another hundred fifty thousand more. It was like on a train was barreling down the track heading for crash with the station, and you couldn't get off the train, and I was like, sell the account, close it. I don't care. I'm gonna lock in the loss. I don't want to have anything to do with this. I'm Terry, my life savings. I'm forty years old. I had an Taylor suits at one pair of black shoes. I've never coats and diamonds. I saved my money. I worked my this league in its league. Leaking. It's linked back through my fingers. Barbara says she lost one point six million dollars, but like so many other women case life, she stuck around and keep didn't stop trading on the commodities market. If Barbara had a lot of money, Sarah and Claire had more. He turned to the Bronfman's. Barbara said he pitched them on a plan to expand the reach of the company by making a fortune on the commodities market. Barbara says, Keith borrowed sixty five million dollars from the Bronfman's and he lost it all. In an interview with the New York Times, kief denied the amount was that hi Barbara says, she doesn't know whether we ever paid it back, but she was in the room when he explained it was Clair's fault. He had lost the money. He said, Claire committed an ethical breach when she spoke with a reporter from Forbes magazine about Nexium, the two thousand and three article upset their dad, Edgar Bronfman senior, and Keith claimed as punishment. The billionaire manipulated the commodities market to ensure Keith would lose the money. What? What did you observe was clear response. My my impression was that they believe. I kid. Crock shit. And then there is this last allegation. Very gradually started with a hug. Kief taught me how to hug in two thousand twelve, the Albany times union allege that Keith had sex with underage girls. This was something Sarah Edmonson said members of Nexium were told not to believe because the media can say anything poll mine. Pelvic area close to the adult hugged like that. This woman spoke to the Albany times union newspaper in two thousand twelve. They agreed with Holter name. She said she was twelve. When she met Keith, he was thirty. This recording of our interview is posted online, Keith Ranieri shortly after moving to cook park around nineteen ninety. The woman said her mom was involved with consumers byline. I was looking to make some extra money. She got me jump stuffing envelopes, and then I got to meet Pam and Karen Christian key, and they offered me a job walking camps dog for five dollars a day twice a day, going to their house to walk the dog. MC welcome in the morning before school. And after school. During that time, I got to know heat. He offered to tutor me in algebra and Latin shortly after the tutoring started actual relationship began between Keith and might help. It happened racial mostly in office, WADA EMI elevator in empty business. Office in Rome, a broom closet, janitor closet, and also the housing where Cam Kristen and Karen lift with Keith that relationship continue from age of twelve till thirteen. When I ran away with Benchley point, the woman told the times union, she had around sixty sexual encounters with Keith two years later, she went to the police to file a complaint. The police did not pursue an investigation and charges were never laid. The f. b. i. claims Keith had sex with several teenage girls in the eighties and nineties, though Keith is not facing any criminal charges related to those claims. When Heidi Hudson caught Keith climbing into our sister Gina's bedroom, Gina was not yet seventeen under New York state law. This was statutory rape. Gina didn't go to the police. There was never an investigation. I have to rely on Heidi's accounts because Gina died by suicide years. Later Kice lawyer says these allegations of sex with underage girls are not true though Keith has not directly replied to organize a request to talk about any of this. It wasn't just the Albany times union that reported on these types of allegations. The losses on the commodities market and rumors about his harem over the years. These stories eventually surfaced. And for the most part, Keith followers stuck by. Including sarah. It's hard to pin down the exact moment. Sarah changed her view of Keith. I pictured there being a sudden awakening, we're all the allegations about Keith's snapped into focus, and she decided to leave, but a seem Sarah experienced it more like a slow burn over a couple months while she was in dos. If there was a decisive moment, a final push out the door. It came from Mark vicinty the man who I recruited her would become her business partner and friend, Mark vicinity. Got me in and got me out. He had an important piece of the puzzle and caught Sarah off guard. He told her that women in dos were being instructed to sleep with Keith, and that's what I was like, oh my God. What am I in? What is this. The certain things started to click. I was such a basket case. So this is what this is one stop sleeping. 'cause I the, you know, the rug has been pulled out from underneath me and I think it was it was. It was in the middle of I was running the middle five day as running a training in Vancouver at the center. I was in the middle of the training going in and having to EM people. To just to get through the training. I didn't know the magnitude of the situation. I just knew that I was. I was going to continue with anything. It's a new, our new that one out of dos. Now I recognized. Now, what made sense like Keith, Keith created this fo women's empowerment program within the structure of Nexium to maintain loyalty and to feed his sex addiction. That's just so not what I thought was a part of. Did you ever have sex with Okada? No, no. I've never had sex with Keith. Wanna barf, no fence the woman who did it was actually one of the things he said to people when they said, but look, what about all allegations of a harem. If you had a hair everything, I'd be. It says crazy, but I was like, like really if he was gonna hit on everybody, don't you think he would hit on me and he hasn't done that. He's been nothing but play what I didn't understand. I mean, I say that in jokey way like in a kind of narcissistic way, but I thought really if he was such a douchebag, he would have put it up there what I didn't understand and I can't prove this caveat my opinion. He doesn't put it out there on a traditional proposition away. He puts it out there by offering business opportunities. I've counted on a p. and I just can't at five different things that he offered to me over the years that I didn't take him up on it. It wouldn't be like, you know, hey, Keith wants to have sex with you is come to Albany, Keith, Keith is asking about you when you're in Albany come to volleyball, volleyball. So you think there was a was a moment testing you? I do. I do believe that was on the table and I missed it. You know, authenticity and creativity are an interesting match. We don't like to think of ourselves as his robots, and if you are coming office robotic, most people say that somehow in authentic there has to be there's a series of videos posted online called conversations with Keith. This one is with the actor Allison Mack. I can't be certain when this video was made, but according to the FBI timeline, when it's posted on YouTube, Allison, Mack is Keith rainier slave in dos. So when someone's being authentic, you get the feeling that. Not only that there's a person there in the moment, but somehow you, you reach into their very essence and you. You meet the unique individual. Allison, Keith are sitting across from each other. It looks like a dining room table. She's enraptured and hangs on his every word. I don't know why wannacry it's beautiful. I think. Among its claims. The f. b. i. says Keith was the one who created the secret women's group. The f. b. i. says some dos leaves believe their collateral would be released if they didn't follow instructions to seduce Keith, and it name's Allison Mack as co conspirator her charges include sex trafficking and racketeering conspiracy and like heath. She has pleaded not guilty. Her lawyer tells us she disputes the alleged facts of the case and that she expects she'll be vindicated. I think these are all things that we strive for. You know, we strive as a as individuals. We strive to breakthrough type of existential isolation. We want to touch someone we want. We want to know that other people have souls. We want to experience this. We want to experience connection. So, but why? Why do you think that's seller show from the us? I don't know. I think his it seems like it said. Something that I just. I feel like I want it authenticity knife in. I. Silly way. It's like that's where love is. Like, that's like two souls came late, come together without any sort of barrier boundary and somehow there's completion or not aloneness or transcendence in some way. Professional athletes, eight years and all those always loved to sing. She's just recently, Jake voice more seriously. She's been seeing simply human under the guides the last five years. And now also. This is Mexican sisters. No. Kindle. No, messy. Sousse thinking about how what you went to twelve weeks, you celebrated his birthday twelve times. You were teaching curriculum. You were making him a ton of money. When things started to change when you start to realize that the organization was not what seemed to be hugely betrayed. I like everything. You know, over the twelve years, there were so many allegations in media reports about who he was and I went to bat for him and saying, that's not who he is and the stupidest logic. I mean, I still say stupid because people insiders still using this logic, my logic was I've never seen him do that. I've never seen him sleep with all these women. I've never seen him. Raping underage girl. I've never seen him the anything, but XYZ. The now I'm like, you know, that is not. That is not a logical premise for understanding or knowing someone I was live. I didn't live there. See his daily life. I trust the people around me that he was who said he was. I went to bat for him and put my face in my name out in the world. As a as a stamp of approval for Nexium, we'll. He's doing this behind the scenes. It's a huge betrayal. An incredibly embarrassing. For twelve years. Sarah got up on stage of e week and thanked vanguard. She sang happy birthday to him. It is possible that women Nexium created dos. That's the claim. Keith makes a court filing. But if the FBI allegations are true, Sarah is implicated in a group that didn't empower women. It entrapped them. Suddenly vanguard isn't the smartest man in the world with a plan to save humanity. Vanguard is just Keith agai. Albany likes to control women and Sarah is trapped. Were you afraid of him. That time. Yeah, yeah. That time I was rid of him. On the next escaping, Nexium, there's nothing you can really do to protect yourself against them coming after you other than giving them no reason to come after you. Next into Mexico. They were kind of. Shot up because of my beliefs I've had to make choices. Should I have bodyguard? Should I have armed or not? Accidents happen. I'm really careful. Escaping Nexium is produced written by Kathleen gold heart and need it. You lash me Josh block and Beka Anderson who also are audio producer, Heather Evans is our senior producer an off. Noorani is the executive producer, get the series for free wherever you get your podcasts, rest, CBC dot CA, slash cover. If you want to discuss the story with others and get the latest updates become part of our online community by joining the cover escaping Nexium Facebook group or following us on Twitter at uncover CBC. What the world needs now is. Sweet love. It's the only thing that there's just too little low. See they raise. I don't know what that is. I've known injury. Escaping Nexium is a CBC podcast. Another show you to check out is a loan love story, a memoir about love and loss by Michelle Parisi stick with her as she takes you on a journey from new love marriage and baby through betrayal and loneliness. And yet no matter how many times love kicks in the shins. Michelle doesn't give up on hope. This isn't just heartbreak for those of you who felt it. You know, the word heartbreak doesn't even scratch the surface. You know that there's no word the comes close to describing what happens to you in that moment. When you first find out about betrayal. For more CBC original podcasts go to CBC dot CA, slash original podcasts.
Aired 3 months ago 44:30
GSMC Book Review Podcast Episode 123: Interview with Tommy Carbone
Have you heard metro by t mobile now includes Amazon prime? Yes, enjoy the best of shopping and entertainment movies, TV shows music, free shipping and much more all included for just forty dollars per line for three lines all on the T mobile network. Discover the smarter way metro by t mobile that's genius one offer per account offer subject to change twelve ninety nine per month. Value offer valid for new Amazon prime members at your customers may notice reduce speeds versus some t mobile customers video at forty p capable device required. See store for details and terms and conditions Golden State media concepts. Bring you book review. I haven for book rooms of all ages and the whitest genres from mystery to memoirs romance to comedy fantasy scifi if you love to read this is the podcast for you. It's the Golden State media concepts book review caps. Hello and welcome to the G M. MC Booker view podcast. Brought to you by the G S M podcast network. I am your host, Sarah. And I am happy to be with you on this thanksgiving week. Hope your plans are going. Well, if you are traveling, I hope that you're you have safe travels and you avoid all crazy weather for flying. I hope you flights go. Well, I just hope you have a smooth and happy and safe thanksgiving week. We have two interviews this thanksgiving week, which I am excited to share with you. The first is today, of course, and a returning author author tummy Carbone was here with us back in may to talk about his first book, which was a memoir called growing up. Green point talking about his childhood in Brooklyn in the seventies and eighties. He's switched his focus a little bit. Now with his second book. It is a novel is a mystery novel. It is called the lobster lake. Candi- mystery at moosehead, and let me give you the description from the back of the book. Nothing much really happens in the north woods that is until you mix seaplanes poachers game wardens and strangers in a mystery at the lake three generations of the Parker family had grown up in the woods near Maine's lobster lake. The parkers new the roads trails and lakes around there. Cowan better than anyone except maybe the local game warden. It was always a peaceful and safe place that all changed the year. Joe Parker rescued a girl the oddly dressed stranger stock their woods and the bandits caused some serious trouble. So this book takes place in flashbacks, the more modern period is takes place in the eighties. And then the flashbacks take place in the fifties. And there's a couple of even earlier flashbacks before that. So I know that sounds confusing. But it really isn't when you're reading it because the flashbacks to the fifties focus on Joe and his father and they've recently lost. Joe's mother, not she she died not so very long before the book takes place. So there's memories of her as they are experiencing kind of their first without her. So there's a lot of memories of her. So you kind of get few flashbacks within flashbacks as you get to know Joe's mom, so you've got the eighties in the fifties. You've got mysteries you have main almost as another character. Because it's this fascinating. Place that you can just feel yourself in as you're reading. Tommy does a really great job of describing the area. Even includes maps and pictures in the book. So you get some sense of the place. I have never been to Maine. It's one of the places that I've always wanted to go reminds me a little bit of Montana where I grew up. But I know it it's different in so many ways. But it's definitely on my my list of places to travel to eventually, and it just it seems beautiful. There's lots of lakes there's all of you know, there's a bunch of hiking and hunting and outdoor activities. But then you get these mysteries. So is the first of a series, and I was happy about that. Because with the flashbacks you don't get as much about Joe, and Sara story Joe, and Sara Joe is the main character throughout the book, Sarah is in the flashbacks. And then a main character in the parts that. Take place in the eighties. And they seem to be developing a relationship when I finished the book, I thought wait a minute. I didn't get a few questions answered. And what about Joe, and Sara we just started scratching the surface of this relationship. What is going to happen? So fortunately for me and my insatiable curiosity. This is the first of three planned books in the moosehead mystery series. So there will be more. We'll get a few those questions explained there's some more mysteries. And I'm really looking forward to returning to the north woods and spending some time there, even if you're not an outdoors person. It's really fun to do it in a book, you can travel the outdoors you can hike. You can experience Maine winter without having to actually wait for the snow plow all that good stuff. So it's a really good way to experience place. You haven't been and like I said Tommy does a great job of describing it. In fact, I'm going to let him describe it. Now in his own words. Instead of mine. So let's go ahead and turn to the interview with author Tommy carbon again, the book is the lobster lake bandits mystery at moosehead. Hi, Tommy, welcome to the welcome back to the podcast. Happy to be here. It's wonderful to have you back. And we are here to talk about your new book mystery at moosehead. But before we do that for people who might not have heard your first interview or who maybe need a refresher. Can you tell us a little about yourself? Sure. Currently I live in Maine with my family and writing something that's our side. Hobby for me, it's something I started during our long main cold snowy winters, and it's kind of grown from there. It was just something. I started to do to write some stories for some family history. And it just kept going my childhood was spent in Brooklyn New York have this experience of city life that I now am contrasting a lot in my writing to living in Maine and coast and mountains of our beautiful state here by education. I'm an engineer and manager. So I've written a lot of technical articles and technical. Things. But now enjoying writing books that I would have never imagined. I'd be writing fiction in memoir. So it's an interesting year. Switch that I'm having a lot of fun with. Yeah. And so now, you've your first book was a memoir. And now, you moved onto a mystery the lobster like bandits, it's mystery at moosehead, can you tell us a bit about that story. Absolutely. It was very fun book to write. It's a novel set in the north woods of Maine scenario where supposedly they've done some counting. And they say that moose outnumber people by three to one that might be true that it's quite a bit of them up there, particularly in the winter. I think during the summer and the other seasons where we have a lot of tourists that may not be so definitely in the winter. There's a lot of wilderness in that area, and that makes plenty to do outside all throughout the year. And so two wake is a setting of Dubuque, and it's a real lake in Maine. It's just north of moosehead lake, and it is one that many canoeist actually used access the same waterway that Henry David throw did on his trip that he wrote about in the Maine woods. So it's got a lot of historical connections. There. The story the novel takes place in the region around that lake as well as the down on Greenville, Maine, which is at the bottom of the most tip of moosehead lake and. A little bit of connection to New York City with one of our characters in the book. I think if I describe it I would say the the story is what might be considered a light Stoorikhel fiction mystery because it ties together two different unrelated crimes. One is a heist that happened in Boston decades earlier the other is unfortunately, a crime that occurs. Not only in Maine, but in many locations in the wilderness, and I don't want to say too much about that from spoiler perspective. But it's something that does occur. So there's some things that the characters get wrapped up around those two crimes and in the book, stand Parker and his son Joe who have a camp on obsolete. They've had it for generations along with a friend of their who happens to be the local game warden get mixed up in investigating and trying to solve the crimes with a prisoner stranger. That appears in their woods. And at first they thought he was friendly, but he may have alterior motive so there's a little bit of mystery in that as well. I tell the story from a flashback perspective for two of the main characters had met once early when they were teenagers. Joe, and Sara, and then many years later, they see each other again in Greenville by chance in a romance seems to develop between the two of them. So there's a little bit of the crime aspect and the the game more aspect of the Maine woods, but there's also some romance as well. And so it's inflict Bax, the the more modern setting is in the nineteen eighties remembering that correctly, correct? And then back to the fifties. Correct. That the kind of sway back and forth where when Joe and Sara meet again, the structure remember what happened earlier. Right. And so talk a little bit more about Joe, and Sara as the main characters what what about them. Do you think will resonate with readers? Well, Joe is definitely a Mainur through and through people here in Maine say or spell it made with you h on the end and he loves his camp in the woods. And he's a definite outdoorsman any that you'd Red Sox fan which everybody in Maine pretty much is. And I think he's a bit of a humble guy. But he's also pretty reserved, and I don't really get into a lot of back story in this first book, but we get to see his romantic streak as he shows Sarah around the area, and they start to learn more and more about each other from an adult perspective. He doesn't have a lot of affinity for crowds or cities or fancy restaurants is just kind of a Downer or at the guy enjoying his life in the north woods of Maine, Sarah on the other hand is a writer. She's from New York City. She loves the city. But I think she's got this inner conflict wishy struggling with the confines of being between skyscrapers all the time, especially when tiny apartment above a noisy Minaj streak street, and she thinks she loves it. But maybe not so much, but it's the life. She always dreamed of having and then she's forced to go to Maine for a story. And she meets Joe, and she starts to kind of rethink this this would versus city life, and there might be more to life than cappuccinos and off Broadway shows. So I think that's the boat. Those main characters resonated a lot with people one one woman as me to signing say said read the book, and she came to buy a signed copy. If Joe was based on a real. Person. And if he was single. Really liked him. Another woman game for assigned book to give to somebody. And she had read the book, and she was from non originally. And she now lives in Maine, and she told me, wow. It's like you knew me I could have been Sarah. So I think there's a lot to realize elements as usual with writing. That's in there that people start to resonate with. And you you mentioned that there are two crimes in the story. Did you start with that as your inspiration or was main your inspiration? Where did the story can spring from? You know, I wish I would written that down when I started how it started where it started. And I wanted to spotlight the area in Maine of Greenville of moosehead lake. We have a lot of people that visit main they love Maine. I see a lot of online post with their their pictures and how they loved their summer vacation. And obviously there are people that come here for their weight vacations. But there's not a lot written about in tier part of the state. It's a part of the the area that's near and dear to my heart. We have the camp they always spend a lot of time there. And so that was more of the inspiration or it's around the location and the setting of the small town the mountain Leek town, then I just started to build from there, and it became Greenville and see point fly in that we have their year, and then tying together timelines and events and people, and it just mushroomed was no outline. I don't know why. When I write any. Thing in. No, just you wake up in the morning. And like, oh, that's a good idea. Let's put that in story. And then I moved things around. I do a lot with post it notes when I write. So my stories ebben flow and throw pieces away, and I put new pieces in so all started with just the area of that part of Maine and then took off from there. I'm going to jump in here now because we do have to take our first break of the podcast. But I do want to say that. I love listening to the way author's craft their stories the way, they outline or chart their stories, and I just have this visual in my head of kind of like one of those walls that you see in crime dramas where they've got all the old stuff up on the wall, the pictures the clues the strings the the thumb the thumb tacks. But I have this picture in my head with with post it notes. It's probably not what Tommy does it all. But I like to have these strange. Pictures in my head, and I just love to picture all of these processes that help authors to keep track of their story. And where they're going. I find it fascinating. But we do have to take our first break. So stay tuned. You're listening to the GS MC book view podcast, and I will be right back. Hi, this is Sarah host of the GMC book review podcast as not only the host of a Booker you podcast. But also someone who loves to read I get excited when I get to recommend books for you. And I have one of those today the New York Times bestselling author of hoot Carl hiaasen is back with squirm. A wildly. Entertaining slightly twisted new adventure about snakes grizzly bears. A spy drone a missing dad, and knowing when and when not to let things go score is recommended for readers ages eight through twelve so if you have someone in your life who might enjoy this book or someone in your life, who you already know loves Carl hiaasen, maybe you loved to read together as a family, whether you're already fans or you're looking for something new to read I condemn recommend squirm by Carl hiaasen support for this message comes from Random House children's books and squirm is available. Now wherever. Books are sold. Welcome back to the Jesus MC book review podcast, and my interview with author Tommy Carbone about his second book, the lobster like bandits mystery at moosehead. And speaking of that part of Maine in your affinity for it. You also include some maps and some pictures, which you don't often get in in novels. What what made you decide to to include those why do a lotta reading of these type of stories and also even real life stories of people that travel or do river trips or backwards hiking, and they kinda describe the area, but then you're going online to try to find it. And is it real is it made up and how does that play into the story? So I decided to include those because I like when people do include some of that stuff in the book with pictures as well, and my sister actually commented she said, why are there maps, and she's like, I just wanna envision it myself in my mind, and then other people were thanking me for including the map to show them where that area of Maine was because Maine is just so big and that area loan. Is bigger than Massachusetts and Rhode Island and New Hampshire. It's just to tremendous section of the country. Well, and there's there's a lot of, you know, moving around in the book, as they, you know, as as their hunting as their hiking is doing all kinds of things throughout the story. And there's gonna use hyperbole here a million lakes. So I I found the maps helpful the just kind of put everything in perspective as to okay, they were here. Now, they're over here. Where would exactly how are they moving around this area? That's good to hear because to go out of time because I'd handwrite those for copyright reasons. You have to do all that yourself though, putting that together and I'm not an artist. So even the sketches that are in the book, those are things that I just sketched myself and all the pictures that are in there the deer the mountains ill Leixoes are photos from the actual area that have taken over the years. Nice. Okay. Thank you. But it's certainly not just a main story. I think I think the idea of that concept of getting away will resonate with a lot of. People people that I've talked to it's strange, you get notes and people that live in Wisconsin. And they have thousands of leaks there as well. And they say a lot of the same things happened or occurred to them and they loved the idea of being able to get away from the city for a little bit and enjoy the outdoors. So it takes people to a setting that either reminds them of some place they've been or someplace they wanna go and the settings are are fun because it's the fifties in the eighties. So obviously, there's a little more technology in the eighties. But it's not like the technology. We have now, you know, there's no phone at camp. There's there's no TV at camp. There's a radio, but sometimes there's a little sketchy, depending on the weather. So you really get that sense of leaving a lot behind right? And at our camp. We don't have a TV internet is now available. Unfortunately on their on the road. There is to add have that they have cable is just like being at home and we've kind of. Resisted that from the perspective of just being away. Yeah. Yeah. I think you've touched on this a little bit. But what are the autobiographical elements that you included in the book if any? I didn't realize it or set out to do that. But I've heard someplace somewhere that somebody said all writing is autobiographical in some way, or or some some fashion, and there are definitely elements about how I love Maine and Mussa lake and that area definitely Joe has some of those aspects in him and how much my family enjoys being in that location. There are certainly some parts of the story that actually happened to me, and for those readers read the book, we'll be able to get to a point where Joe is out canoeing on his own in the lake and something happens to him with a moose, and I won't get into too much of the story. But that actual part of that story will actually be in a different memoir that I have coming up about my life around camp that actually happened to me not exactly the way it happened to Joe and that book, but there are definitely certain aspects. And I pulled in real life and real events into the book. All I can say his Yikes. Because I know what you're talking about. And I've I've encountered Mussa I grew up in one Tanna, and they are not small. No. Yeah. What kind of research did you do for the book? Quite a bit. Actually, I knew I wanted to have something with the game wardens in there. And so I did talk to game wardens about things that happen in the woods around main. And also arrests of those who have been convicted of such crimes that happened in the books. I read a lot of articles around that. So I do research things about poaching and wildlife vandalism. I also have to research once the robbery that took place in Boston doesn't really have any direct connection to me that I'm aware of. But it was kind of wrapped into the novel, and it is a novel and a writer to write whatever I want. And so it is put in there, and I had to research about that. Because that's to be some realistic elements of it because it is a true event did happen. But these people are trying to investigate this connection in Maine. So I did read a lot about that robbery and watch the movie about that robbery. So that stuff. Inc. There are also elements of the time period. Like, you mentioned around the radio I camp but not via camp no phone and camp that had to be realistic of the times and the stranger that gets wrapped up in the book that Jones, Dan and a game warden meet uses a small camera to take some pictures, and I didn't want that to be made up or science fiction. So I did some research around that and back in the seventies. I had a very small camera that was about the size of a ring box not much bigger than a roll of film at the time. But I need to know was that available in the nineteen fifties. And it turns out it was so maple to reference the exact Kodak camera that people used in put those elements in the book to give it that time perspective. There's also a lot of history around Greenville. So there's a lot of books written about Greenville from start perspective and visited the Greenville stark society, and the museums and looked at what they had in the black and white photos from the time and also made reference to a lot of the rose writings from his visits to Maine, and the flying is a real event that happens every year. Correct. And I believe we had forty five of those now. So that happens every September in Greenville. And it's funny for the first couple of years, we were going there as vacationers, and we would be at a different part of the lake on the weekend. We didn't know define what's happening when we can we drove into town. And there's no traffic lights in town. So it's a very small mountain town, and they're just douses and thousands of people there like what is happening. So every year since we try to go and enjoy the flying Justice duties with the craft shows and the antics of the plane pilots, and what they do for events and competitions. So that's a lot of fun. Yeah. So this is the lobster lake bandits and you keep saying books. So can we expect more? Yes. Because it can't fit it all in one book. I would've ride too big for people to digest into read. So this is the first book and what I'm calling the moosehead mystery series. And right now have three books plan. The next one will be out sometime next year. I'm not gonna say exactly when I'm trying to build the audience and see what they think about this. I won the early readers have loved the characters and or already pushing me on Facebook for the next book and emailing me, when's the next book coming out. So I do have plans for that. And I'm still working through the edits on the second book, which is tedious and the third book, which is fun because I'm in the writing stage. So I get to make everything up and just kind of flow as much quicker. So are you envisioning three books definitely smoke it? And I'm assuming you should never soon. But will they all feature Joe, and Sara or will you getting other characters? I do bring out a character in. But definitely the next to also feature Joe and Sara central to the stories and what develops between the two of them. And the adventures they have in the woods, and in Maine and New York. Book one given introduction to them. And then we'll start to fill in the their backgrounds. A bit more in book two, and then there will be some characters that reappear in each book. And because I'm playing with these historical fiction flashbacks of some real events and each book that is allowing me to tie in some of those same characters. So the game warden who is a real character in book one does appear in book two as well. Okay. Great jumping in for that second break of the podcast. Stay tuned. You're listening to the GS book view podcast, and I'll be right back. Have you heard metro by t mobile now includes Amazon price. Yes, enjoy the best of shopping and entertainment movies, TV shows music, free shipping and much more all included for just forty dollars per line for three lines Paul on the T mobile network. Discover the smarter way metro by t mobile that's genius one offer per account offer subject to change twelve ninety nine per month. Value off. For valid for new Amazon prime members at your customers may notice reduce speeds versus some t mobile customers video at forty p capable device required. See store for details and terms and conditions. Have you heard metro by t mobile now includes Amazon price. Yes, enjoy the best of shopping and entertainment movies, TV shows music, free shipping and much more all included for just forty dollars per line for three lines all on the T mobile network. Discover the smarter way metro by t mobile that's genius one offer per account offers subject to change twelve ninety nine per month. Value offer valid for new Amazon prime members at your customers may reduce speeds versus on T mobile customers video at forty p capable device required. See store for details and terms and conditions. Tired of searching, the vast jumble of podcasts. Now. Listen close and Hugh is out. There's a podcast network that covers just about everything that you've been searching, the Golden State media concepts podcast network is here thing less than podcast. Lists with endless hours of podcast covers from news sports, music fashion entertainment fantasy football and so much more. So stop blurted around and go straight out to the Golden State media concepts podcast network, guaranteed to fill that podcast is whatever it may be. Visit us at WWW dot GS MC podcast dot com. Follow us on Facebook and Twitter and download us on itunes, soundcloud and Google play. Welcome back to the MC Booker view podcast and the conclusion to my interview with author Tommy carbon. So as we said before this is your second book, your first one was a memoir called growing up green point. And when you were on the first time you talked about we talked about that. But can you just give us a brief? I don't know your your your brief elevator pitched for people who haven't read it. Sure that book is a memoir. So it's the kid's life in nineteen seventy Brooklyn. And it's the times of my childhood and early teen years in New York City the stories include events and times with my family and friends back during those years, I wrote the stories originally for my family and then to share memories with them. But after reflecting on the stories, I started to think that would be fun to share with others. And also the way to preserve some of the things that happened during those those decades, it was a pretty different time for New York. Not just demographically, but TEK? Technology wise. There are a lot of changes that happen and one of the readers that read the book probably gave me one of the highest compliments now that I look back on what I wrote there called me a true and apologised and you loved her I captured the language and the mores of my world in that place in time. And that was part of it for keeping some of that alive and sharing with others. Some glad that you recognize that. And we're always getting yelled at back then to go out and play and a lot of times. You don't see kids playing outside today organized sports. It's so organized now back then it was just straight games. And I talk a lot about the street games in the street food that we eight and the trouble we got into sometimes. And it's it's fun. I tried to keep it fun and one nice person recently wrote that the book made all app until coming down her face. So I think that makes me happy because that's kind of what I wanted. And there's some other tier aspects of the other kind in there from emotional perspective that I still get teared up about. So it's I think it's fun, but emotional and gives people are perspective of what it was like as a kid in New York City during those years. Yeah, you were pretty free range. I mean, my mom said I kill you. Now if I knew you were doing. But I think when most people think about a New York City, they probably are thinking about like New York, maybe not Brooklyn. But, you know, just thinking about letting your eight year old out to walk to school or any of those things would freak a lot of people out in this. You crack me up on Twitter a while back because you posted that your dentist asked you about your memoir. And what did he say are you famous or something? Yeah. We got into talking about you know, what what's going on in my life. And that's why I just released a a book a memoir, and you look them in that famous. You have a bad childhood. I like, oh, not really neither. Well, then what did you write about? Now, that's something that kind of the pet peeve of mine. A lot of people think memoir is the negative life changing thing that happened to you or something dark, and there are a lot of memories where people share those experiences. But there are also a lot of memoirs I mean, Bill Bryson talks a lot about his travels, and they're fun memoir. So I think there's this kind of tension that all memoirs or this stark thing that may have happened to somebody right? Are always that or written by celebrities of you know, and and humorous anecdotes from their life. Yeah. So how was the writing experience different because he started with a memoir, and then he moved onto a novel. So if you went from nonfiction to fiction, you went from well, also I booked a second book, how is the writing experience different when you wrote your second book. Going to writing fiction was a lot of fun because I got to make everything up whereas the memoir had to keep it true. But I also have to make it fun. So putting the fun aspects into the reader's perspective. So that they could see what happened writing the novel all those pieces had to fit together. So I would think I had all the holes in a plot, Phil. But as I read it back like homeboy, I can't do that. That's not how this can happen writing the memoir. It's while it's not chronological per se year for year of my childhood the stories are jumbled up in mixed up. They're all truth things that happened. We're in the novel. I didn't know it was going to happen. And sometimes when you four or five chapters ahead, you forget about what did happen. So there's a lot of story lining that has to happen. But it definitely was an interesting experience to write the novel and be able to spotlight the real. Part of Maine that I want to spotlight, and I don't outline anything. I right. And I think that's because in college and all the classes, I took we were forced outline. So we've been resist that now. And so it's very difficult during the editing stage to make sure I go back and do chapter, Matt. So it's almost a reverse outlining after things are written. Then make maps of what I wrote and how things came together. What is next writing wise? You've mentioned a memoir another memoir you've mentioned the to the next two books in this series. What are you working on right now? Three or four things in the pipeline. And I do that purposely because it's easy to write a first second draft book because it's free wheeling for me versus editing is a little bit more tedious. So the next book into moosehead mystery series is being edited. So it's on probably draft. Number fifteen. I can't disclose the title yet because it's central to the mystery the fiction piece of that book. But at the same time, I'm writing pieces of the third book. And I think that's important because there has to be some character continuity and story continuities, so I can't really book to until I've got some three put together. And but it's also easier for that writing for me to be able to just right, and I just sit down in a quiet space with a block of time to do the writing or doing editing. I need more short spurts because because I just don't have the attention span to do the detail editing wind by line paragraph by paragraph. The other big thing. I'm working on is my memoir that's going to be called. There's no place like camp, which is it connection of world travel stories and camp life. So as part of my prior roles in doing some engineering work. I was traveling the world for more than a decade. So I've got a lot of cultural stories that I'm trying to tie back to how that's different when you're at some place like camping in moosehead lake. So putting those experiences together and weaving those stories with some educational aspects of how different people live with fun aspects of how people live in kind of an interesting thing, and I'm actually backtracking a little bit because I was just looking at the book again. And at the beginning, you have praised for the book from John Ford senior who is author and retired Maine game warden and county sheriff so and he has some books that sound will kind of various is someone that, you know, did did you. Talk to him about being a game. Warden I did speak with him. And he provided some very early feedback on the book. And it's interesting the game warden in the book is called Henry fraud. There's named Henry Ford. And that's because one of the antagonists drives are red Ford truck. So it wasn't really based upon John. But John happens to be John Ford, and he also was a game warden. So he did provide some great insight into the early draft a book, and I also admire a lot of his writings because he writes, all true stories about his time as a game ordering catching poachers and people in the backwoods of Maine. So there there are a lot of fun stories in that. And he's also pokes fun at themselves quite a bit. And so I like that until I try to do that as well. Thank you is the is this book out now or soon it is out for the lobster. Bandits is out. It was published late September is available up on Amazon or Barnes and noble, and it's available in expanded distribution. So small independent bookstores can also order that then it's on I books and kindle everyplace can be probably in do you. Do you still get the pictures in the maps when it's on in e book form? Yes, yes. It's also available in large print. So I did get some feedback because I probably just growing up green point in large print, and actually it's been very well received. There are a lot of people that like that format. So obsolete is also available. Have you ever thought about audio books for especially for the memoir? I have I just need to think about who would do the recording that and since the memoir is kind of an Italian American based thing, I don't think Robert deniro is available. I never know. I I have thought about it. I just don't know. You know, it's very I think expensive to get somebody to do that audio recordings need to figure out how to do that. Right. Okay. So where can people find you online, websites, social, media, etc? All of these social media. Links are available at WWW dot Tommy Carbone dot com from there you can link to Facebook Twitter, Amazon Goodridge YouTube all typical places that people go to find out information, and I post pretty frequently on those different platforms and YouTube. I'm starting to compile some playlist because people are interested in both Brooklyn, New York point New York as well as moosehead lake. So I've been putting together a playlist for people to go and experience the area. From those places I love hearing from people either direct messaging, or if they post something back to a post, I have up on Facebook. That is great. I also share images of moosehead lake in the region as well as events that are going on up there. Yeah. So is there anything else that we haven't talked about that you would like to mention about writing or books or main or anything that we haven't covered? I think what it didn't mention what they think. Now my books are starting to show up in libraries. It's taken a long time to get into that pipeline. It's really slow. But that also includes e books were libraries offer that service, or if there are people that would like to check out books request e books from libraries, they can certainly do that from the local libraries should be able to get those titles. The best way for readers to follow up in what's going on with updates is probably my Amazon author page. So people can go on Amazon and follow me up there. And that's a great place to get connected and hear updates. And Lastly, I do have signed books available for sale on EBay. So people can go up there. If they want to buy something for somebody for Christmas. I can do a custom name or signing in that. And those can go out in time for Christmas. If they get them ordered here in the next couple of weeks, we're getting close to the end of the supply on that. And also the time line to get those mailed out for Christmas. But those are available. Okay. Thank you so much and thank you again for taking time out of your weekend to come back back on the podcast. I really appreciate it. And I'm living vicariously through your snow. You said you had to you had to go out and take care. Snow this morning. We did. It's just kind of like in lobster league. Bandits the surprise early snowfall. Well, again, thank you so much for coming back to the podcast to talk about your book. Thank you so much for serif. I remain. I look forward to hearing from people I want to once again, thank my guest tummy Carbone for taking the time to come back to the podcast to talk about his book. Again, the book is the lobster like bandits mystery at moosehead it is the first of three it is available now. So if this is something you're interested in, and if you want to give someone a signed copy there still some time to do that in time for the holidays, although as Tommy said those supplies are running low. So you wanna do that sooner rather than later if you want to take your chances on a nut personalized signed copy. But a signed copy I do have some to give away her Ray. So in order to enter to win a copy of the lobster like bandits mystery moosehead by Tommy Carboni. It's very easy. All you have to do is go to our social media pages, Facebook, Instagram or Twitter and comment on the post with this episode. It's episode one twenty three interview with Tommy Carbone. That's it go to those websites. Follow us flees and comment on this post episode one twenty three interview with Tommy Carbone, and you'll be automatically entered to win a copy a signed copy of the lobster like bandits mystery at moosehead. It's great if you or someone that you love like books that are that have mystery that have a little bit of romance a little bit of historical fiction. And or if you're just fascinated with or interested in Maine, then this is a good way to breed, you know, but you don't wanna read to travel guide or something you can read historical fiction and find out more about the north woods of Maine. So thank you once again to Tommy for joining me for the interview thing. Thank you to you, my listeners for joining me and always being so wonderful. I really appreciate you. I love hearing from you. So let me know your thoughts. Let me know what you're reading. And I hope you all have a wonderful and safe thanksgiving rather than the usual Thursday episode of this next episode will be airing on Friday this week. So we can all enjoy our Turkey coma. That interview on Friday will be with author Susan k Hamilton about her dark fantasy novel shadow king. So very different from today's episode. But a lot of fun, and yeah, join me on Friday for that interview. In the meantime, have a wonderful safe thanksgiving. And if you have time off or even if you don't have time out of find some time to go out there and get yourself lost in a good book. Thanks. You've been listening to the Golden State media concepts book review podcast, part of the Golden State media concepts podcast network. You can find this show and others like it at WWW dot GSM. See podcasts dot com, download our podcast on itunes, Stitcher. Soundcloud and Google play this type in MC to find all the shows the state media concepts podcast network from us. Music, sports, entertainment, and even news. You can also follow us on Twitter and on Facebook. Thank you. And we hope you enjoyed today's program. Have you heard metro by t mobile now includes Amazon price. Yes, enjoy the best of shopping and entertainment movies, TV shows music, free shipping and much more all included for just forty dollars per line for three lines all on the T mobile network. Discover the smarter way metro by t mobile that's genius one offer per account offers subject to change twelve ninety nine per month. Value offer valid for new Amazon prime members that your customers may reduce speeds versus some T mobile customers video at forty p capable device required. See store for details and terms and conditions.
GSMC Book Review Podcast
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Ina Garten is a Messy Cook: The Hidden World of the Barefoot Contessa
Bob's red Miller Ganic Masa arenas. The perfect pantry stable for lovers of Mexican and Latin American foods. It's made from certified organic corn that has been cooked treated with lime mortar and then ground into a fine flour. It's ideal for making tortillas. So and papooses here MO street, we top our tortillas was shrimp and police sauce. Then finish it with a bit of salon, tro and lime to see the entire line of flowers. Please go to Bob's red mill dot com. Slash milk street twenty five for twenty five percent off your order. That's Bob's red mill dot com. Slash milk street twenty five. Hi, this is Christopher Kimball. Thanks for downloading this week's podcast. You can go to our website most radio dot com. For each week's recipe are one recommendations and updates about our cooking school and live events at milk street. Here's this week show. This is most your radio from here. I'm your host Christopher Kimball. I had a moment when I was working at Madison Avenue and women in big for coats that, oh, darling, love your cookbooks. And I said, thank you very much in kept going and about a block later truck driver pulled over and leaned out of his window and said, hey, love your show. And I thought that's what food is about. It appeals to everybody. Garden. We sat down to the Scots early career and how she still finds inspiration in the kitchen. But first we chat with food writer, Anthony Huckstep about the real Australian cuisine, one of the most culturally diverse cuisines in the world. Anthony, how are you? Fantastic house things over there. Probably not as interesting as things where you are based on your article. What is food really, it sounds more complex and more more international than what we probably have in Boston. So just give us in a couple of cents is the basic premise of your article. Trying to sum up, we'll always been searching for what is a strategy and cuisine. I guess we been ruminating about it and ruminating wanting to wanting it to be something. And then I think we've just matured and realize that you know, it's it's not about trying to create a dish that is straddling food. It's actually foods actually about the communal title and conviviality. And I guess the best way to define it for me is that who we are sort of defines what we ate. Well, you said that the top ten homelands of those born overseas in order United Kingdom New Zealand. Okay. Then China, India, Philippines, Vietnam, Italy, South Africa, Malaysian Germany, Greece's close. Eleventh. So. As you point out, you're more likely to find a Chinese restaurant in a country pub, the not massive Italian immigration, the nineteen fifties. So the idea of the monoculture is just totally not true. It's just it's totally immigrant culture. Absolutely. And I think the perception globally of a stray area is that you know, we sort of expats from Britain, and the reality is obviously indigenous community has been here for over fifty thousand years, and the rest of us have all been here for a little bit over two hundred, and we've actually come from all over the place, and you know straight doesn't have that rich sort of peasant sort of food culture that you have like in France and Italy that creates these dishes of a centuries. You know, we've had to rely on everyone else in the world to sort of common share they food with us. Well, one of the things you mentioned, which I should have occurred to me, but didn't. It was obviously Southeast Asia's very close. So the climate is perfect for growing many of those ingredients. Lemongrass ginger meant chilly, basil, long gallon goal. So I never thought of Australian, those terms, we would tropical, you know, like I grew up with passion, fruit Vons on the back fence we had mango and lachey is in the fruit bowl. It's the some parts of a stray that get below shorts and thongs, whether it's pretty warm. But you know, there's there is called whether as well as stroz really big place that you can basically grow anything from all over the world and that Scott, what's been happening. So let's talk about some of the food you talk. Read braised caramelized Wallaby tail which tastes like sweet veal with a hint of gaming with black bean and Chile or roast duck with sour native peaches and orange sauce. What? What are some of the dishes that you know? I obviously would not be familiar with who will be interesting because it's for those that don't what a Wallaby is. It's kind of like a small kangaroo sept-. It's a little bit return a bit guy. Have you had before? I did once, yes. I ate at a restaurant in Washington DC which is famous for its game, and I did taste the once. Yes. Did you lock it? I did. Actually. I liked a lot better than Alexander. I'll tell you that much. Yeah. Well, I'm the same with crooked actually, but yeah, so so, well, I guess we'll being kangaroo. Similarities is that they incredibly lane mates incredibly good for you. The only problem is you have to be really careful about how you cook it. You know, you really want to cook if it's a loin sort of medium rare and have something shot with untreated like venison. So you might wanna bring in fruits, stuff like that. So one of the other recipes you mentioned is char SU. Roasted glacier toothfish here the toothfish. It's the certified sustainable toothfish on the planet. But you know, we have some pretty amazing seafood. He like Maron, which doesn't exist anywhere else on the planet. I guess it's probably saws was how fight between a prone and a lobster, but it's. It's very sweet. Now you also mentioned that the waters Austrailia, a lot of it is protected. So the tonnage of fish caught off a stray Elliot's fairly small compared to the square miles, and that's because of the protections. So it's one of the greatest protected areas for fishing. We expect SE food to be sustainable and fishing. What is the third largest on the planet? But yet we ranked about eightieth in regard to sort of so-called productivity, which means we don't really drain the swamp. It's actually legal strategy to fish unsustainably. Let's talk about some of the ingredients that we don't know anything about here, finger alive lemon, Myrtle wattle seed. What? What are some of the indigenous ingredients Americans wouldn't have any experience with? Well, think fingle arms a really important one on think. It's one that people would get straight away and be quite excited about because it's something you can put in gin and it's something you can use in cooking and it's it's a sensually. It kind of is the shape of a finger like an index finger. And when you cut it open as basically little, almost like little caveat little spheres inside of citrus and you can just squeeze the fingle I'm, they'll pop out and you just have these little beautiful little bulls and I pop in your mouth with this beautiful burst of sort of lime and lemon it. So let's talk about home cooking other dishes, which people do cook at home regularly. That would be considered standard Australian fair or that just depends on where where your grandfather came from? Yeah, I think there's a bit of both in that. I think you know, it's easy to sort of suggest that classic rush choke would be a staple of most families, but perhaps what actually accompanies it would all to quad and you'd find a lot of Middle Eastern influences with salads and things like that. Or even, you know, Vietnamese, sort of dressings and. I'm not. I'm not convinced that there is a national dish anymore. People talk about spaghetti volun- is, but I just had such a begin fluence on us in the last twenty five years that it could well be sto fry. So where does this all go? Do we at some point, stop talking about fusion, cooking and different cuisines, and it just is what it is, and everyone stops thinking about it or is a stray at the point where it's now going through a a moment of trying to figure out what Australian cuisine is all about it is that do people talk about it or people just don't care. I don't think what caught up on it anymore. I think what's happened is is that is a great love looking food, great produce and respecting the produce. And then just using the best technique to let it be a here on the plate and without having the fear of rating into French background or French techniques or Japanese technique, what's kind of judgmental about that anymore because it's just become part of the culture. And I guess the most important thing is that we've kind of realized that we're all different and certainly politically and socially sort of getting things together just like every other country on the planet. But when it comes to food, we kind of old join the table and it's just that sense of sharing and conviviality. And I think we're all in agreeance there that you know food is what brings people together. Food doesn't have borders. Anthony, thank you so much. I really appreciate bowl. Some. Thanks for having me. That was Anthony. Huckstep article for taste is what is Austrian food real. You can subscribe and listen to radio. Anytime is podcast and shows her Friday on apple podcast at your Spotify Google play, and tune just subscribe at all of our shows downloaded right to you. Right now. My co-host Serra Multan and I will be take you all's. Sarah is of course, store of Sara's weeknight meals, public television. Also author of home cooking one one. Sarah, are you wake you ready? Hi, ready to take some calls. Yes. Welcome to mill street who's calling this is Lisa from carefree, Arizona. That's actually the name of the town. My goodness. Wow. How old is the town was named in the sixties. Hippy days. Now we got it from eighteen thirty. How can we help you today? So I get the magazine and you have a recipe for orange NS bundt cake. And there was also a chocolate orange tart and both call for part of the flour in the recipe to be almonds. Almond flour and I'm allergic to tree nuts. So I was wondering if there's any harm and just substituting regular flour or that amount of almond flour makes a big difference in the texture of the cake. That's an Excellent How much how much almond flour was there in there in that one, I believe it was like fifty grams to maybe two hundred and fifty grams of flour. That's why I thought it would probably be fine. Just think that's fine. Regular flour, almond flour has more fat or a lot more fat AP flowers fat. So if you substitute flower, you could put a little more fat into, but I don't think fifty grams out of three hundred grams. Total is going to really change recipe very much just just add another tablespoon of butter for example. Okay. There is also sunflower seed or pumpkin seed flour. I mean, that's more esoteric. You'd probably have to order it online, but that might provide the same sort of interesting nutty taste as well as the fat content just thought. No, that sounds great. I'll try that. I assume if you've got a recipe where the whole recipe is almond flour, you pretty much just find another recipe. Correct? Correct. I would be good. Yes. Yeah. It will be very different if half remorse, flowers flower, then you'd have a real problem, but ten or twenty percents problem. Yeah, some k- well, I may experiment with the sunflower flower that right on flower seed flour or pumpkins. So where do you I've seen it online? Oh, yeah. That's I think that's where she's going to have to go with. Sarah does late at night when she can't fall asleep. Esoteric floor. I love pumpkin seed oil. Let's all time favorites. It's very dark in three yummy like a toasted sesame, but it's it's different. And so why not play around with use it as an ingredient as flavoring? No, not cooking. I use it more as a finishing oil than a cooking oil, so I'll actually cut it with some vegetable oil, vinegar rats, but it'd be good drizzled on grilled vegetables, any place where sort of a nutty toasted taste would adds something you know, on cheese. Keep in mind though that all nut and seed flowers, they go rancid very quickly. Once you open them, they should be refrigerated. That's why my refrigerator, downstairs, string, flowers that you have all sorts of weird things that your fridge, tonic water, strange flowers. Yes, anti rate at least. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Take care. Okay, bye. This is most radio. I'm Christopher Kimball if you want to know why you're cheesecake cracks or you have any other questions. Give us a ring eight, five, five, four to six, nine eight, four, three one more time. Eight, five, five, four to six, nine eight, four, three or send us an Email questions at milk street, radio dot com. Welcome to milk street who's calling. This is Jason from Raleigh, North Carolina. How are you doing? Great personal thinks we're taking my call of shirt, love love the show, but I have to give you a little back story for. So I've been living in Raleigh, but I grew up in south Louisiana. So as a part of keeping my culinary tradition alive, make really big batches of ru in the fall, and usually a Brown through in a really, really dark and I'll put it in wear, freeze it. And then just as the year goes along, use it for pretty much just Gumbo and at two eight type should end I have so much of it, and I really don't know what to do with all my group and that good writers Dr Seuss calling. Yeah. Well, you know, I would think about it in Sarah's terms which is Demi gloss, which is a highly reduced stock and using that. So it's a base. So I love to roasted chicken and a small co cart or panir Dutch oven. And I think if you put a few tablespoons of that dark room at the bottom of that pan with chicken and some garlic and some Rosemary tarragon juices come out and they mixed with the ru, give that really wonderful dark sauce. It be great base for gravy use it as a base in beef stew. I think it's a stock base almost, right. Yeah. I mean two things for people who don't know what Louisiana ru is all about. You take the butter flour stuff that you usually cooked together thanksgiving to thicken your Turkey gravy, but you cook it much much much, much, much longer till it gets very dark color in and that kinda ruined dark room was added to a Gumbo not just for its thickening power, but for its flay. Ver- especially for its flavor. It's very, very important part of Louisiana, cooking. However, the longer you cook, the flour, the less it will thicken. So when you're adding it too thick and a gravy, you have to keep that in mind. That's all. But so you use it as a flavor component. I can see that and I agree with everything that Chris said and by the way, I think that is brilliant to freeze it. 'cause it's work to make darkwa how long's it take in the oven. Goodness, d amount that I make probably six hours while what temperature in the oven. I would say probably around three hundred. Yeah, three to three fifty and you use oil. You use butter, neater. I can to use locally sourced free range pig lard. Man, this is not fair. Now you're talking men. Yeah, you're the real deal. Yeah. Now you're talking to refer mel's amazing. What I usually do is a one to one ratio, but you wait, I don't know if you've tried it like that, Chris, but a wad of people in south Louisiana. Say that weight is the way to go. Never heard that that ratio. Well, now you talking with the pork fat. There got tons. To taste it, make sure it's okay. Yeah, I think also go. Great and chilly. And do freezing ice cube trays or something you have portions or somewhat small cuts like court size? Maybe a little bit smaller touch, and then I'll just use the scoop like a little stainless steel scoop in eyeball it. That's terrific. We applaud the best idea of her. Yeah, that's right. Good for you. Thank you for sharing that with us. I think we benefit from this conversation. Thank you. Thank you. You're listening to milk street radio. I'm Christopher Kimball coming up next, my interview with either garden. We'll be right. No, the modern kitchen is nothing. Like what I grew up with the choices fixtures sinks, lighting. A major places are well overwhelming, and that's why whether you're planning your dream kitchen or building your dream home, Ferguson bath, kitchen enlightening gallery can help start by browsing the online inspiration gallery on Ferguson showrooms dot com. And then request an appointment with your local product expert, and they work with designers builders and other trade professionals to meet your specifications while exceeding your expectations, visit Ferguson showrooms dot com today to request your appointment. I love to cook, but there times when you want a helping hand in the kitchen and that's where sun basket really delivers each weeks on basket provides eighteen different recipes to choose from such as Wyan. Tuna balls with Brown rice and Nori sun basket also offers paleo gluten free vegan family and many other recipe options on basket. You get a great meal on the table in his little as fifteen minutes. Get thirty dollars off your first order today at sun basket dot com. Slash milk that sun basket dot com. Slash milk for thirty five dollars off sun basket dot com. Slash milk. This is your radio. I'm Christopher Kimball over the last twenty. Five years on a garden is gone from White House. Budget analyst cater in small store owner to being one of the most beloved recognized home cooks in America in her latest book cook, like a pro Ana focuses on how to cook, not just what to cook today. We chat about how she turned a small gourmet shop into a huge success and eventually a career in television. I know how are you. I'm fine. How are you? Chris? It's been a while it has since we spoke. So everyone I think knows your story and we've talked about it, but you were worked in the White House as a budget analyst on nuclear energy budget and policy papers like another lifetime ago time ago. But you know, here's my question. You see this ad for this to square foot specialty store at Westhampton beach, Long Island, and you say, well, you know, maybe I should do something, I'd like, and then all of a sudden you moved out there. What was it? You were really bad at because going from a policy analyst who a retailer is so different, what were you really bad at? And what were you really good at at the beginning beginning, I think I did every, you know, when when you have a store and you have to employee's you do everything. So you bake bread and new may cakes in, you mean. I mean, you're everywhere. And I think I was bad at following through because I start something start something else. And I remember going home one day and I forgot that I had like thirty characters in the oven and came back the next day. It was a disaster. I think when you when you have a situation like that and you don't know anything about it, you just jump right in and you just do everything. And I think I was probably bad at managing my life because I was there like twenty hours a day. Go home sleep, really fast and come back again, but I loved it. So it didn't feel like it was work. It felt like it was. It was like a huge sandbox and just had so many fun things to do. So was it hard translating your cooking from home cooking to retail cooking when you're making thirty characters, that requires a totally different mindset in terms of prep and how you organize yourself in the kitchen. Did that take time. It took time to actually scale things up. What I did was I want I bought the store at actually came with a notebook of recipes that the woman who had been running it for made. So she made pies and she made some things in quantities, but I kind of wanted to ramp it up and make it a little fancier. And what I learned really fast is that people didn't want fancy food. They want a good home cooking. And so I remember making things like some there was a Swedish called Janssen's temptation. I have no idea what it is now. It was like potatoes and and herring or something. I remember nobody bought it of course, and I thought, well, we'll just have it for staff launch and the staff didn't even want it so that when learned I learned what I'm actually really good example of it is I remember doing I thought, well, I'll just make gross chicken, but I wanted to put it out in a really nice way. So a big platter and fresh herbs on the bottom and rose chickens on and nobody bought any. And I thought. What's wrong with this. Everybody wants her as chicken for dinner, and then I thought it's too fancy. And so I took the whole plot back into the kitchen. I took the chickens, put them in those little red and white paper cups that you have for French fries and line them up on the counter, and they were gone in five minutes. And so I thought what was interesting about what I was doing is that it was, I would do things all the time, and I'd watch what did people like, what are they not like? Where do they wanna buy parmesan cheese. I would put parmesan cheese all over the store, and I, that's really interesting. They wanted to buy it at the register on the way out. So. So how how much you're retailing is impulse is fifty percent of it impulse buying. Well, I think a lot of it is I think a lot of is, is being smart and people would come in and say, or it just came in for a bad Gat and they walked out with, you know, fifty dollars worth of groceries. So I think it's about visuals. I think it's if they're things smell good. They taste good. It's fun being in the store. It was always important to me. I would walk out of the store and I'd walk back in and say, okay. Do I hear? What do I smell? What do I see? What's interesting and we had samples out so you could taste things with Frank Sinatra cranked up on the CD player, and it was just fun being there. I, I loved when people would just say, oh, just meet you at Bedford Contessa. And while they were there that you know that get coffee and a Muffin or something like that. So the name barefoot Contessa was the name of the store when you bought it is that right was and now as I looked up the movie because I see a garden, it's actually dark movie. Well, that's what I was going to say to you. I mean, as you know, it ends in a multiple murder and shot. So the barefoot Contessa dies at the end of the movie. I thought that was so interesting that barefoot Contessa most people has a somewhat happier. Feeling somewhat. I think it's the image of being elegant earthy and actually when I bought the store, I thought the first thing to do is change the name because it doesn't say what it is and has nothing to do with food doesn't say who it is. It doesn't have somebody's name. It was just an idea. But as I started, I didn't wanna do it right off the bat because it was known and I thought, well, maybe over time I would change it, but I realized what it the idea of it is really being elegant and earthy, and that's what I think Ava Gardner was, and that's what the the movie was about. And in a funny way that really kind of captured what I think the stores. Your brand is interesting. You are, you're my generation yet. You really have. I don't know of cult status is right, but you have a very strong following large fall and you can fill a two thousand seat theater, for example, as you well know. So you're doing it from a brand that is about comfort in making. People feel good about their home in themselves in their cooking. And could you just talk about that because it's so into thankful to what you see today a social media is sort of the opposite of what most people trying to sell. I never set out to do a brand. I'm everybody says, how do you get a brand? And you don't actually set out to get a brand actually. Do you do as well as you possibly can and then some day I think you realize you have something that people that resonates with people. There's something about food that's different. That is just a lot of people stopped me in the street and they say you taught me how to cook, which makes me feel great. I started because I love writing cookbooks and I thought it'd be really interesting to do when I love developing recipes. But what I found is it gives it doesn't give people something. It gives them the tools to do something themselves, and that makes people feel good. And when you cook, everybody shows up. I mean, if somebody calls and says, come for dinner cooking who says, no, nobody, they all show up. And then. You create a community round yourself of people that you love who you love to cook for and take care of, and they take care of each other. And I think that's what missing a lot in this world. We're, we're more and more isolated in our houses. We think we're connected with social media, but in fact, it's not that kind of soul satisfying connection, which just connected in some superficial way, and people vent on social media, which they would never do that. They would have a deeper discussion about something. So I think cooking really leads to real connections and real community, which I think we're really under for. And a lot of people who are younger than I am their parents work. They didn't. They weren't home making pasta and bread and things like that. So there's nobody in the kitchen. I cooking for us anymore. So I think there's something about my show where it feels like you're sitting on the other side of the counter, and I'm cooking for you. That makes people feel good. No, I think that's right. It's into town, right? Exactly, right. It's intimate and comfortable at the same time. It's a, it's a safe place where you feel welcome, which I think. Thank you. You know, there are other some other people do that, but if you do that particularly well because also the feeling of the space is also just right. I had a moment. I'll just tell you the story. I had a moment when I was working at Madison Avenue and women in big for coats at, oh darling, love your cookbooks. And I said, thank you very much kept going and about a block later, a truck driver pulled over and leaned out of his window and said, hey, babe, love your show, and I thought that's what food is about. It appeals to everybody. So Martha Stewart walked into a store at some point. How did that get started? I think you had a column in the magazine. How did that work? I met my desk right in front of the cheese counter. She walked in and we started talking and we became good friends. We did some benefits together. I did the catering. She. It was at her house did a lot of things together and Jen. She asked me to be guest on the show a few times, and she asked me to be a columnist and her magazine which was wonderful. You love to quote Oscar Wilde work as easy, fun as hard. But you sold the store and then had a year off before you went this other direction. And you said that was the hardest year of your life. That was hard because you had nothing to do you know what to do what? Well, I, I didn't know whether I mean running the specialty food store was like go no party every day. But you know, at some point he wanted to do something. I'd go to a Bharti and it was hard work and I had fifty employees and somebody was always crying out the back door and I felt I knew how to do this. And I like a challenge. So friends suggested that Taipei people think that they can figure out what to do next while they're doing something and they can't. They just have to stop. So I thought, okay, I'll sell the sort of the employee's and then I spent a year. I made myself go to the office every morning at nine o'clock, and I had nothing to do. So I just, you know, I remember I went from making thousand begets one day to having literally nothing to, and that's probably the hardest thing I can. I can do. I have no reason to get up in the morning, and I kind of felt that maybe my career was over. I felt that maybe I'd done the best work I was going to do, and I wasn't going to figure something else out. And then you know, after a year of having nothing to do, I was really at my wit's end and Jeffrey said, just stay in the game. You love the food business. You love to travel, learn new things. Isn't there another way that you can do the food business beside having especially food store and I thought, well, I don't know. People have asked me write a cookbook, and I have no interest in writing cookbook, but at least I'll have something to do tomorrow. So I just started and I wrote a proposal for a book. I send it to my dream publisher, which was Martha actually suggested I go to Clarkson Potter which was published and they accepted the offer. And I was like, oh, no. Now I do write the book and you know it's like one of those things when you stand on the side of the pond, you think about. Should I jump in the pond to to dark as to cold of the fishing? There? You just jump in the pond and you figure it out when he get in there. And that's what I sort of did. Well, some people jumping the pawn drown. Not everybody comes out women. Well, Trump in the pond. It seems to me that if you think you're going to drown right there, you go somewhere else and figure out how to do it some other way. But I like that. I like the clarity of that that you don't have a choice either you have to swim. You have to figure it out. Everyone does their best work when they have no other choice. That's true. That's that's probably that's a great expression. That's exactly right. So let's talk about your new book cook, like a pro and cookie in general? Sara, Moulton my co host on the show and she, she said something to me. Interesting. She said she used to do all the museum plus all the prep work ahead of time before cooking. And that's what I've told people for decades and she said, she doesn't do that anymore. She, she breaks it into component parts. So if you're going to soften onions for ten minutes, Skillet that's time where you can worry about the next step. So she breaks it down into parts. Do you do all the prep when you cook at home ahead of time or do it in parts. It depends on the recipe in home doing it, but if I'm doing it straight through and into the oven, I definitely break it into part while I'm saute onions, I'll be prepping something else and you clean up his you go, which is no messy. Is cookie ever known really? Oh my God, everything's can bring dinner home from his store reheated and use every dish in the kitchen. I'm such a mess. I, I like to just just cook and then afterwards I just deal with the dishes. So if you ever invite me over for dinner, I won't complain about the dishes in the sink. Just. Thank you. You're invited, I'll actually do the dishes. How about that? I'm very good at I noticed in your book and she everybody's book these days. The influence from other cultures farro you have Isreaeli salad Soule's Zeki, shakshuka cetera. You mentioned Yotam on a Langata once or twice from London. The baba canoes? So are these recipes starting to become part of everybody's repertoire here in the United States? You think? I'm trying to think of other people's recipes. I pretty much stick to my own, but I think you can't keep doing Russ chicken all day. You have to kind of extend yourself. And I think my sense of curiosity takes me to other places like auto Langi and in France, I, I go to food stores and cafes and and you pick up ideas from places. So I think that's really what influences my cooking most gotta poached fruit. That's one of my, I love it because it's so simple. Just inching some. Fruit and some sweet wine. What's that basic recipe and wise it in the book. It's just one of those sort of homey things, but I think the most gotta really elevates it so that the sweetness of them Scotto when the fruit I like things, I have a recipe in another book that's peaches and saw turn. I like things where the peaches flavor the turn and the so turn flavors the peaches. And I think the mascot of poach food is the same thing, the prunes and the dried peaches, and all the dried fruit kind of flavor. The most Gado the the syrup it makes and the most gotta flavors the fruit. So each thing they don't stand apart, they meld together and that's the kind of recipe. I'm always looking for anything. Any little memory from the last twenty years, something that sticks with you from the old stored to your TV days. Anything that kind of was surprising to you as memorable you'd think about wish would done it differently? Glad you didn't do it differently. I think probably one of the really enduring memories I'll always have is I was driving into New York and my editor from Clarkson Potter called me. It was nineteen ninety nine and he called me and he said, can you stop by the office on your way? Where where are you? And I said, I'm just driving into New York, hey said, stop by the office and I drove, I pulled up to this. They were on fifty second street them, and he met me on the street and he handed me my first book and I just couldn't believe that it was exactly what I wanted to be. I wanted to be acceptable, but beautiful enough for a gift and to have this object in my hands that I had created just one page at a time. One recipe at a time and one photo shoot at a time was really one of the thrilling of my life and that I've gotten to do it for the last twenty years is amazing to me. Okay. So it makes me so angry that I want your life. I think my life credits, I do. Yeah, you do. Maybe I should look more inwards. Find the happiness there. Thank you. It's been. And I will be happy to wash dishes. And he comforted around wash the dishes deal Ida. Thank you so much much. That was a garden. Her new book is called cook like a pro. You know, a magician obscures the truth of the luge in for the benefit of the audience. The trick itself is usually mundane the presentation that makes difference other careers such as food offer, really the same allusion to make it to the national culinary stage requires grits practicing endurance while over time making it look easy. Ida Garten does make it look easy, but don't be fooled the likes of Martha Stewart on a garden illegi bus. The are smart clever hard working in a thing or two about endurance from the audience. A magic trick is effortless magic to the performer is simply a matter of practice. Right now I'm heading into the kitchen milk street. The chat with Lynn Clark about this week's recipe roast chicken, Lynn, how are you? I'm great. Chris interviewed Gela Lawson recently in the show. And she mentioned a term in her new book called trae bakes, which obviously is in English term and asked her what it was and it was chicken or chicken parts, and you bake other stuff with a sheet pan. So as all happens at once, so I like the name and I liked the idea we brought about the kitchen, but we thought we'd take that concept and adapted to something else. So we have chicken, we have a trae now what are we going to do? So we have Bonin skin on chicken parts. Here you can mix that up. You can use breasts, thighs, drumsticks, whatever combination you want here on a sheet tray with a spice rub. And this particular one has coriander ginger salt, and pepper and sugar. It's baked in the oven for about forty minutes at four fifty, and that allowed us to get the crispy skin. We wanted also created fond on our. Dan, which was another opportunity to make some flavor and adds something different to this very simple baked chicken recipe. I once the special, so we're gonna make the sauce right on the sheet trae initially, we just delays the pan and use that font kind of make a quick sauce with lemon juice and zest. But what we found was we could add something else onto the tray. And so we added ten garlic cloves actually onto the tray. It goes in the oven with the chicken, so that roast in the oven gets really nice and sweet and caramelized and soft. You just smash the garlic right on the tray and then whisk in the water and the lemon juice and the herbs, and it creates a really nice pan sauce on your sheet trae which is a pan. But typically, we think of doing that on the stove top. It's all done right on that hot sheet trek. So you big chicken parts and roast the sauce ingredients on the same thing. And then you actually make the sauce on the hot. She panicked. We do that. Like that. Very easy. It sounds a little joy of cooking, but what old is new? Lynn. Thank you so much. You're welcome, Chris. You can get this recipe for roast chicken at one, seven, seven milk street dot com. I'm Christopher Kimball. You're listening to milk street radio coming up more of your culinary questions with my co-host. Sara, Moulton. We'll be right back. Oh. One of the things I rarely think about is brushing my teeth because I've been using the same brand of manual toothbrush for probably ten years. Well, recently I bought a quip electric toothbrush, and it really is quite different. It's not flashy. The no gimmicks has very slim profile. By the way, it's great for traveling because it's not bulky. So it really is the new electric toothbrush. It's a fraction of the cost of bulkier brushes, and it does pack premium vibrations for the perfect two-minute minute clean by the way, the guiding pulses in quip also remind you when to switch sides, and they'll also deliver new brush heads on a dentist recommended schedule every three months for just five bucks that includes free shipping world wide quip starts at just twenty five dollars. And if you go to get quip dot com slash milk right now, you'll get your first refill pack free with quip electric toothbrush. That's g. e. t. q. u. i. p. dot com. Slash m I l k. This is most your radium. I'm Christopher Kimball is time to take a few more calls with my co-host Sara Moulton. Hi, Sarah, ready for a new batch of question. I am so ready. Welcome to milk street. Who's calling a good afternoon. This is Paul would Georgia. How are you. Wonderful. Wonderful, thank you. I cannot call. I don't like to tell my wife this very often 'cause I don't want her to know that I know how to follow instructions. I can follow recipe pretty well. I think get around in the kitchen a little bit and. I enjoy cooking. I do much of it as I can, but something always wondered is a exactly why am I using ingredient x. instead of ingredient? Why? So I was wondering if you could recommend the book to me that really gets into the science behind the cooking. Sure. You have a pencil? Yes, sir. I have quite a few Shirley core hair CO are h. e. r. she did two books when I'm baking and cook wide. Bake wise. Those were very good with recipes. The food lab by an old colleague of mine j. Kenji Lopez alz that also one words just last year semi knows rot wrote a book called salt, fat acid, heat one, James beard award home, cooking one, a one by who's not by wa. Okay. Bye. Sarah, you know what? I'm also gonna recommend sort of the flip side of the food lab Kenji sort of was discovered well by you all. And then he's been working with Syria seats. Somebody else who works for Syria seats is a woman who's come out with book called brave, Tara. She's been on the show. She's very good at the science Tartars. Excellent. If you want classic American deserts, yeah. She also does recipes for fig Newton's Oreos and finance and fun stuff. But. Her research is terrific. She does a great job with the science of it as well. So those are just a few. Of course, the granddaddy of the malls herald McGee m. c. g. e. his book on food and cooking, I think was originally written in the nineteen seventies. It's a very, very dry, very dry. If you seriously like to read about science, that's good book for you. But for a lot of us, it's a hard. It's a hard slog well, if you want the molecular answer, but it's hardcore. Yes. So those are just a few you might want to. Yeah, my pleasure. Welcome to milk street who's calling? Yes. Hi, my name is Roe. I'm row. What is your question today? My question is regarding duck breast. I'm a fan of eating duck and it's always served pretty, you know, rare medium rare. And I always wondered why it's okay to eat duck in that rare, medium rare state, whereas you should not eat other poultry like chicken and Turkey that way. Like what is the difference? Why is it? Okay, productive. We've had this question before. It's an excellent question. First of all, if you cook duck breast to one sixty or sixty five, you would have to throw it out. Just be very tough. That's not an option. That's what the government wants you to do. I think the answer your question is that the poultry industry is obviously huge industry people eat very little duck. I think you're dealing with very different conditions on the farm. And so the incidents of contamination in duck is very, very much lower than poultry. It's fairly high chicken and Turkey. Something like eighty five percent. Yeah, it's very high consumer reports. So duck is smaller farms and they're not raised, and also they're slaughtered a different way. There's not as much possibility for cross contamination with ducks when they're slaughtered. So I think that's why. But you make choices. People tell you not even to eat steak rare or certainly not hamburger, which is a different matter because it's ground up. I would say general. I'm not about anything, but I am little nervous about poultry. I actually by small producers organic away, there's no. Can't be black during salmonella in organic chickens to well, I know that just thinking that maybe the incidence would be better in a low might might in might. But for some reason, duck is is safer, although I'm sure the USDA would say were wrong. I only eat duck medium rare, and I love it. And by the way, it's so good for you. It's got more iron than a lot of red meat and that fat that it gives off. It has a lot of the same properties as olive oil. So it's a good thing to be eating again as I'm eating it. I'm always wondering why this is. Okay. So I'm glad I got my question answered. Well, I don't think Daffy would be happy about. Where we say it's okay. Yes, we do. Thank you so much. Appreciate the ball. Yeah. This is most your radio. I'm Christopher. Kimball is time for this week's milk street basic. One of my favorite pantry on at home is pomegranate Alaska's. It's supposed sweet and sour and can pretty much change your cooking overnight here a bunch of ways to use it blended into a simple olive oil finnick Rhett drizzled over roasted vegetables at a spoonful to a bowl of brace, lentils and garnished with fella in herbs for simple meal. It also brings out the best and sliced tomatoes, just add tormentor basil a little olive oil core soft. We like to slather it on row slammed pork or chicken while the meat after cooking. Finally, it's a great mix mixed with vodka and seltzer water or skip the booze, and had pomegranate molasses to ginger beer or ice t. who the squeeze of lime the leave and make a great Shirley temple or Rogers. For more culinary tips and ideas. Please go to one, seven, seven Millstream dot com. Next up, Jay Kenji Lopez out on a common kitchen and under. Kenji. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Pretty good. So was the topic I thought we talk about pizza mainly because I read this interesting study that just came out about why Neopolitan pizzas bake up the way they do and sort of physics of India pulled pizza oven. In that article, the authors concluded that there's no way to replicate Neapolitan pizza at home, which I somewhat agree with, but I think you can get pretty darn close. So just to define it, you mean like nine hundred degree oven the pizza cooks in a minute. Is that what you mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like one of those real hard cord Neapolitan pizzas. Yeah. Nine hundred degrees pizza. Cook sixty to ninety seconds for the reason that delivers a degree pizza is because with that really intense heat, you end up with very, very thin layer of crack Elise charred crust on the outside. And within you get a lot of spring, which is the thing that happens when he plays bread and you get a lot of brings, you have a very sort of moist cloud. Interior in that very, very thin crackly crust. And that sort of like the hallmarks of Neapolitan pizza. So the reason that works in an actual brick oven with woodfire, you're starting with an oven floor of around seven to nine hundred res. And when you place a pizza in that kind of environment, both the top, the bottom sort of cook at about the same rate. So by the time the bottom has done, the top is mostly done the problem when you try and do that in a home oven. The main problem is, is that your oven can't get hot enough. Most home ovens may be max out at around five hundred fifty degrees. So your pizza takes much longer to cook in a home of in than it does in a true pizza oven. And that leads to crust. It's a little bit too thick and you're kind of dries outcomes crackly. So you don't get that really nice contrast. The other problem with a home of in is that you're transferring heat through a different method than you are within Neopolitan pizza oven. So in both cases, the bottom of the pizza's cooking through a method called conduction, which which is basically we're energy is transferred directly from one surface to another. So in this case, the stone to the bottom of the pizza in the case of a Nepal. Pizza of the top is being cooked somewhat by radiation. That is electromagnetic radiation that's coming out of the the brick walls of the Evan, the same way that you sort of feel the heat of the sun on your skin. But a lot of it is also through convection. So if you look at the way of fire is built in any of in usually have a big flame in the back uphill of burning logs and charcoal and a chimney at the front. So hot air is drawn from that fire and gets pulled over the top of the oven out the chimney. And so a lot of the top surface of a pizza is cooking via convection. That is the hot air blowing against it is helping cook. Many homes don't have convection fans period, so you're not gonna get any of that convection cooking and even ones that do have convection fans, you're not going to be getting the same level of conviction that you would in Nepal pizza oven. And so what that means is if you try and just throw a pizza on a baking stone in a home pizza of most likely you're going to burn the bottom before the top is completely cooked. So the question is, how do you make this work in a home of? Well, you can't really get convection very well in a home of. But most home of do have broilers. So instead of using convection, which you can do is just bump up the radiation. So by turning on your broiler as you as you could pizza, you can sort of make match. The pace at the bottom is cooking and is forgetting the bottom to cook faster. You know, nowadays, a lot of people have an, you've talked about these baking steals instead of baking stones making in the idea there is that steel is going to transfer energy to the bottom of the dome, much faster than a stone can even if they're at the exact same temperature. So by using a combination of steel, Andy broiler you can. You can get very close. Maybe you get like a two and a half minute cook time instead of ninety second cook time, but you, you can get pretty close to what and actual new parliament pizza does. Have you ever tried moving the steel or stone up to a rack about two thirds up the oven. I find that also helps because you get there's more heat at the top of the oven and the top and the bottom actually cook it a more even rage. Yeah, absolutely. I would actually recommend that keeping the steel. Somewhere around four inches away from the broiler element further away you are the radiation drops off pretty rapidly. So you wanna be pretty close to that broiler. I was that Michaels in debacles many, many years ago. It's one of the oldest pizza pizza, and here's what I found interesting. Everybody pizza with a knife and fork, right? And I didn't understand it because I was waiting for my pizza was actually timing how long it took. It was typical. I did the exact same thing that yet. So I'm sitting there a table right in front of the oven, and then they brought the pizza. They had only had three pizzas right three styles and write. It turns out you need a knife and fork because the center of the pizza saga yet soup in. So when when you sing the praises in the Apollo pizza, we do have to say it's a knife in for pizza and the center partially because the buffalo mozzarella think kind of wet isn't crispy. It's not a crispy pizza in the middle, right, exactly. Yeah. I think most most places in the US that call them. Neopolitan pizza. They do a style that while Siri seats, we used to call it Neo Neapolitan where it's essentially Neopolitan, but it has a fully crispy bottom crust so that you're still cut it into slices and pick it up just because that's what people here expecting. And that's the style actually. I like my pizza, crispy all the way across the bottom. Yeah, I felt I, I, I went like, well, they obviously know more pizza and I do, but I, I don't really want to Chris, so everything else was fabulous. I mean, the crust on the outside was great, but that did surprise me. So the answer to Neopolitan pizza at home without a knife and fork is user broiler, use a baking steel and place it about four inches underneath the broiler Kenji. Thank you very much. Thank you. That was Jay Kenji Lopez all the author, the food lab, better home cooking through science is also the chief culinary advisor for serious eights. Early in the show I spoke to Anthony Huckstep about Australian food since we know so little about trillion food. I wondered what we don't know about the wildlife tone wonder, and here's what I discovered the can run at speeds up to twenty eight miles per hour. The plight of Bush is highly poisonous Australia's home to seventeen the world's most poisonous, snakes. The box jellyfish Barrier Reef is responsible for more deaths than snakes, sharks and saltwater, crocodiles, combined a kangaroo can chase down kicking as it hops. Well, I'll go to stralia for the food, but maybe not so much for the wildlife. That's it for this week show. If you tuned into late, you can always find Millstreet radio and apple podcast at your tuning, Google play or Spotify. Please remember to subscribe to the show, you'll automatically get every episode downloaded to your phone or tablet each week. If you wanna learn more about milk Streep, these go to one, seven, seven milk street dot com. You can download each wings recipe. Watch TV show, subscribe to our magazine order. Our new book, the complete milk street TV show cookbook. And if you never wanna miss a recipe or an idea, please follow us on social, confined on Facebook, Christopher Kimmel's milk street and find us on Instagram and Twitter and one, seven, seven milk street. We'll be back next week and thanks publicity. Christopher Kimble's milk street. Radio is produced by milk street in association with w h executive producer, Melissa ball, Gino, senior audio editor. Melissa Allison producer and Easson Safaa associate producer, Jackie Noack production help from Debbie paddock, senior audio engineer Douglas sugar, don't editing from Vicky Merrick, and Sydney, Lewis and audio mixing from j. Alson Atlantic public media in woods hole Massachusetts theme music by to Bob Crewe additional music by George Brenner eyeglass Christopher Kimble's milk street. Radio is distributed by p r x.
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