6 Episode results for "Sara Hussain"
Democracy Now! 2019-03-04 Monday
"Brown. Pacifica. This is democracy. Now, the commission has found reasonable grounds to believe that the security forces committed serious violations of human rights, and international humanitarian law. United Nations increa- has found Isreaeli forces may have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity by targeting unarmed protesters and Gaza last year when Israeli forces killed at least one hundred eighty three people and injured over twenty three thousand during weekly protests loosing Vinton shisha children giving ten she should be disabilities leaving ten she should journalists. Knowing them to be children people in Jan listed. Some of the not one of the children of visit me children baths, but many of them we'll speak with Sara Hussain who helped conduct the U N inquiry and Norman Finkelstein author of Gaza an inquest into its martyrdom then and undocumented immigrants detained in Florida. Just weeks after he appeared in claim film at the Sundance film festival about activists infiltrating for profit immigrant. Attention jails is this a form of retaliation. We looked at the stunning new film, the infiltrators with the film's director and two activists who portray themselves in the documentary narrative hybrid film. Every little tiny bit of his actual very plan to use the system against itself in a way that other folks can replicate and that will for me personally, I think this project, and this film and everything can really be a flair for a lot of folks who may lack the clear tip creativity to energy or to know that we can do more than sort of resist right now all that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now democracy now dot org. The Warren peace report, I may me Goodman, House Judiciary chair Jerrold Nadler is expected to request documents from over sixty people in groups tied to President Trump and his businesses today as committee investigates potential, obstruction of Justice and other crimes by the president and his allies congressional probes will look into some of Trump's closest business partners, including Alan Weisselberg, the CFO at the Trump organization. Trump son, Donald Trump junior as well as the Justice department. This is congressman ABC this week is very clear that the prison Josephus is very clear eleven hundred times you referred to the investigation as a witch each. Fired. He tried to protect Flynn from being investigated by the by the FBI fired Komi in order to stop the Russian thing is he told NBC news, Nadler's statements, come as other democratic committees have also indicated they're investigating Trump on multiple fronts house oversight chair Elijah Cummings said last week. He would like to question why baragan Trump's children as well. On the House Ways and means committee is reportedly planning to request Trump's pass tax returns. Meanwhile, Trump spoke for over two hours at CPAC that conservative political action conference and national harbor Maryland Saturday railing against Muller's investigation into his two thousand sixteen campaign. He said, quote, you put the wrong people in a couple of positions, and they leave people for a long time that shouldn't be there. And all of a sudden they're trying to take you out with bull. He used the word Kentucky Senator rand Paul has indicated he would vote in. Favor of a measure blocking Trump's emergency declaration which seeks to divert billions of federal dollars to build a wall on the US Mexico border last week, Republican senators Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski and Thom Tillis said they'll join their democratic colleagues and favor of the Bill Paul's vote would provide the Senate with the one vote majority needed in order to pass the resolution lawmakers in the house passed resolution last week blocking Trump's national emergency, however night that the house or the Senate have enough votes at this point to override a presidential veto, which Trump has vowed to use a group of twenty nine Central American parents have entered the US at its border with Mexico Saturday and are now being processed by immigration officials after the group demand opportunity be reunited with their children who are in the United States, the parents who come from Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador were separated from their children last year because of the Trump administration's family separation policy and then deported back to their home countries. The families are asking to be real. United and for their asylum claims to be reconsidered, the parents were company by religious leaders, and immigrant rights groups who are providing them with legal services. This is one of the parents in the group from Honduras with my son is at a detention center in Texas. He's been detained there in a foster home for seven months, and they've not been able to hand over because my nephew who lives in the United States. Does not have as papers in order that is why? Here's a risk who'll be detained the United States as it worth it. Run the risk. But we do anything far children. They're Republican party of West Virginia has come under fire after an Islamic phobic. Poster linking Minnesota congress member. Ilhan Omar to the nine eleven attacks with seen it a Republican event at the state capital Friday, the poster shows the attack on the World Trade Center with the words never forget. You said above the photo below is a photo of congress member Omar who is one of the first two Muslim women elected to congress last November. With the words, I am the proof. You have forgotten written underneath or photo? The West Virginia house delegates condemned the poster and said, it was investigating the matter the houses, principal law enforcement official and Lieberman resigned. After a delegate accused her of calling all Muslims terrorists, Omar responded to the poster via Twitter Friday, writing, quote, no wonder why I'm on the hit list of domestic terrorist and assassinate Ilhan, Omar is written on my local gas stations. Look. No further the GOP's anti-muslim display likening me to a terrorist rocks and state capitals. And no one is condemning them the US and South Korea have canceled their upcoming annual joint military exercises in a move that's likely to east tensions with North Korea which views exercises provocation. The move comes days after the highly anticipated summit between President Trump and Kim Jong UN fell apart without a deal or any substantial progress made on dismantling North Korea's nuclear arsenal. The US and South Korea will instead engage and much smaller scale and less publicized drills. Trump said canceling the massive military exercises will save the US hundreds of millions of dollars as tensions between India and Pakistan appear to stabilize over the weekend. Ground fighting on Friday and Saturday killed at least five civilians and two soldiers in the disputed Indian administered region of Kashmir, according to local reports some residents of Pakistani border towns in line of fire. Lead. He leaving shelling in the heaving shelling in the area seeking safety in nearby. Makeshift shelters on Friday. The pilot of a downed Indian aircraft was released by Pakistan and effort to ease tensions between the two nuclear powers after. India carried out air strikes inside Pakistan Tuesday for the first time since nineteen seventy-one Pakistan resumed some flights over the weekend after temporarily shutting down its airspace last week with a full resumption of flights expected from today in the West Bank Israeli forces shot three Palestinians after a car reportedly rammed into an Israeli military vehicle Monday near the city of Ramallah. Israeli reports said two Palestinians involved in the car ramming were killed by Israel fire while a third Palestinian was injured, then his Waylon position leader self-proclaimed. Interim president one Guido announced he will return to Venezuela after visiting several Latin American nations over the past week to rally support for his leadership and the ousting of sitting President Nicolas Maduro. Why? Joe who risks arrest upon his return? It's called for fresh protests against Venezuelan government in Washington Post interview, Sunday, why does said his arrest by Madurai does government would amount to a coup d'etat Algieria protests continue over the weekend after embattled president of dillas, but fleet goes campaign confirmed he would be running for fifth term a Representative for the filed the official paperwork Sunday despite elections rules, stating a candidate must violent person the ailing leader who's been in power since nineteen ninety nine but has rarely been seen in recent years said he would not service full-term elected and with schedule new elections next year Algierians have been taking to the streets to call for Affleck to end his presidency for the past two weeks. Police use tear gas and water cannons to disperse demonstrators in the capital Algiers in Oakland, California. Teachers and students are set to return to the classroom today after union members approved. A new contract ending the seven day strike with teachers demanding fair wages, smaller class sizes and more resources for their students. The deal includes eleven percent salary raise and one off three percent bonus educators warning the fight is far from over though as the deal only includes a five month moratorium on school closures, but many worry these could resume after this time. Limit the school district is also voting on further budget cuts to Oakland schools and related news. A member of the district school board. Apologize Sunday after video of her apparently grabbing a kindergarten teacher on a picket line by the neck went viral over the weekend. In more news from California. Protesters took to the streets of Sacramento over the weekend after the county's district attorney announced Saturday that two police officers who shot and killed twenty two year old unarmed African American stuff on Clark and his grandmother's backyard last year will not face criminal charges. Alise were responding to vandalism complaint when they saw Clark. They initially claimed he was holding a gun. But later admitted they found only cell cellphone nearest body after officers unleash twenty bullets into Clark. They waited for over five minutes before approaching him to administer medical attention on Saturday, independent Vermont, Senator twenty twenty hopeful Bernie Sanders, officially kicked off his presidential run in its hometown of Brooklyn, New York, Senator Sanders addressing crowd of thousands that has a mater Brooklyn college, and you're. They will be based on Justice. On economic Justice. On social Justice. On racial Justice. On environmental Justice. Today. I welcome you to a campaign, which tells the powerful special interests who control so much of our economic and political life that we will no longer tolerate the greed of corporate America, and the billionaire class Senator Sanders for two more personal glimpse into his life than it. Previous rallies. He spoke of his father coming to the US to escape antisemitism in Europe. Where the holocaust claimed the lives of many of his family and growing up in a working class family and New York senders also spoke out against institutional and quality and the need for criminal Justice reform and renewed calls from his twenty sixteen campaign for fifteen dollar minimum wage Medicare for all and free public college tuition. He was introduced by Shaun king and other twenty twenty election news, former Colorado governor John Hickenlooper announced today. He will seek the democratic nomination for president. He can Luper served as the mayor of Denver before becoming governor Hickenlooper oversaw a number of progressive policies in Colorado, including the legalization of marijuana in two thousand seventeen he led a bipartisan effort with Ohio Republican governor John casick to stop the repeal of the Affordable Care Act. He's been criticized by environmentalists for his relationship with the fossil fuel industry in November Hickenlooper stood against proposition, one twelve in the midterm elections, which would have required companies to place new wills at least twenty five hundred feet from home schools waterways and other areas designated as vulnerable Hickenlooper joins a crowded field of fourteen democratic candidates, and it's the second governor to enter the race following Washington. Governor Jay Inslee announcement last week, and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy. Now democracy now dot or of the Warren peace report, I make good them. A United Nations inquiry has found Isreaeli forces may have committed war crimes and cry. Crimes against humanity by targeting unarmed, children journalists and the disabled and Gaza the report released by the UN Human Rights Council. Thursday looked at Israel's bloody response to weekly great March of return demonstrations launched by Palestinians in Gaza, nearly a year ago targeting Israel's heavily militarized separation barrier. The report found Isreaeli forces have killed one hundred eighty three Palestinians almost all of them with live Nishin, the dead included thirty five children twenty three thousand people were injured including over six thousand shocked by live ammunition. Southie I'll go content chair the UN commission. Mission phone recently got to believe that these Riley security forces committed serious violations of human rights, and international talian. These violations clearly weren't community. Mestigation prosecution. We call on Israel to conduct meaningful investigations into these cities violations and to provide timely chest this reputations. For those killed and injured another member of the UN, independent commission. Sara Hussain described how Israeli forces targeted civilians and journalists and Gaza with seeing that have intentionally short tune dron. They've intentionally shot people disabilities. They've intentionally short journalists. Knowing them to be children people with disabilities in journalists at some of the not all of the children of children, perhaps. But many of them are as Commissioner. Maroon gauges said, the journalists were all marked with Chris that we investigators and the people disabilities said a person a double amputee in a wheelchair person using crutches visibly that and they're being shot at by snipers who also have spot is. Available with them who have high Jerry high level technology available to see who's out there in the field. The UN report called on nations to arrest quote persons alleged to have committed order to have committed the international crimes unquote or to seek their extradition. They went also demanded Israel immediately lift the blockade on Gaza. Israel's acting foreign minister dismiss the reporters theater of the absurd. However, grieving Palestinians welcomed the report, including Riad, you've whose teenage son Hamad was killed during the Gaza protests. Hitmen you're happy that someone is supporting Gaza's children, and we are happy that they're supporting us to defend Gaza's children and youth in Gaza against the crimes committed by the occupation. The UN report was issued Thursday the same day. Israel's attorney general announced. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is facing an indictment on charges of bribery fraud and breach of trust for more. We're joined by two guests. Sara Hussain is a member of the UN independent commission that led the Gaza investigation. She's also barrister practising in the supreme court of Bangladesh. She joins us from Dhaka Bangladesh and here in New York scholar. Norman Finkelstein author of many books, including Gaza an inquest into its martyrdom. We welcome you both to democracy now. Sarah, Hossain, let's begin with you tell us about the most significant findings of your report and how this report came into being. I couldn't hear them. Please explain the findings of the report. Show I need. This report was commissioned as Bishop of the resolution by the Human Rights Council and accordingly. We've conducted investigations for about six months now with creamed investigators and team of experts, I should meant to haven't been given access to Gaza to Israel, which obviously has hampered us considerably. But nevertheless, we have been able to interview witnesses that we have been able to interview many victims with some in-person and some remotely we wouldn't have been able to gather an extraordinary amount of documentary material, including video and drew for social media content as well as of the athletes and other testimonies so based on that we've we've come to our assessments. And talk about the most significant findings. The most significant I think is just the number of killings and the numbers of injuries. There are one hundred eighty three Palestinians who've been killed in. The course of the period that we have investigated which is from the thirtieth. Mas to the photo, I December as you know, the demonstrations continuing and healings and injuries of continue to be reported. But we've just covered this particular period, we will found as you said it was six thousand injuries to Palestinians caused by life fire we've found that four Israeli soldiers had been injured during this giant and to Israel soldiers all been killed. But both of those outside the particular parameters of the investigation, they weren't in the context of the one at the protest sites that they one of them was within the protests dimes, and I think amongst the numbers of killings what we also found which was a great concern was the fact that protect groups who are protected categories into national. Oh protected person such as children people with disabilities and also health workers and journalists were amongst those who were Bush killed onion shit in lodge. Who's the UN report calls on states to arrest persons alleged to have committed or who ordered to have committed the international crimes. What exactly does that mean? Well, we are listed is is done, according to the standard of reasonable grounds to believe it's not a criminal investigation. We makes we've made some preliminary findings based on the facts as we found them, an applying international human rights law and international humanitarian law where that was relevant given that was speaking about the context of occupation, the context in certain contexts, the conduct of hostilities. So we've made these findings, but we believe that these need t conferred the we've called on Israel itself to conduct investigations. So we understand that Israel has opened at least five investigations into into the incidents that we've found, but we are clear why is not open to larger numbers species. That's the first thing that should happen. We've also international community to look into this. We speak to present findings. Hand to move to the High Commissioner for human rights of the United Nations. And then it's full of the bodies to take this fo as I wanna go to acting as really ministers at international criminal court. I wanna go to the acting Israeli foreign ministry. Shrout cats responding to the UN Human Rights Council's report. Pedic bears report is another chapter in the theater of the absurd produced occasionally by the United Nations. Human Rights Council, another hostile mendacious slanted report against the state of Israel. It's a report based on distorted information in which the facts were not at all checked whose only purpose is to slander, the only democracy in the Middle East and harm our right to self defense in the face of the terrorism of murderous organization. The state of Israel outright rejects this report. Stain the significance of Israel, saying it rejects the report real has always check the reports whether they come from the night nations or more orphan than not they come from reputable, human rights organizations, like Amnesty, International and Human Rights Watch or these really human rights organization, but sell them. So it's not as if to use the words the person you just on. It's not as if it's a typically mendacious U N report. It's report that falls in line with the findings of every reputable human rights organization. What most struck Eela doubt this report? What most struck me about report was was remarkably honest, it was very forthright in its conclusions. And then didn't fake this kind of balance which most human rights organizations, even reputable ones attempt between Israel and the United States. So just to take a couple of booze. It forthrightly stated that is. Israel target intentionally children during these demonstrations it targets reporters, targeted medical personnel. And that's that's unusual allow me to examples which she would be familiar with. So when there was two killings during operation protective edge of the fortune. Who are playing playing hide and seek this is back in two thousand thirteen fourteen recently, the intercept had autocell in those for killings of the four kids and had the story that they weren't really intentionally killed. It was an accident. It was in the steak and same thing with the New York Times had the big story and resign L, nausea, which was quoted everywhere. The essence of the story was there was snipe Israeli snipers bullied hit the ground ricocheted accidentally hit three Israeli medical personnel. It was a magic bullet because it was a huge crowd of people. But this only hit three medical personnel. But this human rights report by the Human Rights Council. It's very straightforward. His intentionally targets children intentionally targets. Even this abled persons and that to me was a credit to them. There was no fake balance. If you look at the proportions when the looks at the damage is done to the people of Gaza, they devote ten full pages. And there's a section called impact on Israel. It's three paragraphs. And that's exactly what the reality shows that overwhelmingly, in fact, virtually entirely all the all the infliction of death and destruction is on the house tinian side there were for the period day covered. Join the demonstrations, no fatalities joined the demonstrations and for Israeli soldiers were lightly injured, these massacres the not conflicts and on engagements just outright massacres of overwhelmingly on armed nonviolent. Demonstrators report comes out the attorney general of Israel says he's going to indict the prime minister bench. Jamin Netanyahu the significance of this. Well, these releasing nor the reports so in that context, it's not significant. However, there is a critical significance, namely, the international criminal court has had now two cases referred to it on the situation. Among the Palestinians. One cases on the magi mom of the flotilla in two thousand ten that came under Israeli attack. And the second case is on Israel war crimes in the West Bank. Mostly the settlements and operation protective edge in Gaza. No the chief of staff during operation protective edge during July, August, two thousand fourteen the Israeli chief of staff is was guns because his first name is Benny, but I could be mistaken guns. And the fact that the matter is if Netanyahu is out guns will probably be the prime minister, and he will be up for indictment by the international criminal court. The chief prosecutor. Fought hoop and Sudha is desperately trying not to investigate Isreaeli war crimes, but within the international criminal court. There's been an unprecedented pushback. There are large numbers of members large numbers of members of the ICC who say it's time to indict Israel and the pressure because of this support the pressure and been Suda. She prosecuted been Suda is going to be enormous. It's time to indict Israel and just to be clear. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, if indicted as the attorney general says is not being indicted for this. But for corruption crew. This is some of like I said it's sort of like alcohol being indicted for taxation in the great scheme of things about was the least of Capone's crimes, but that's the way that you system work has he responded to the report to my knowledge is not this is a preliminary report the full report will come out March eighteenth. I think so this is sort of the what they call like an executive summary. It was twenty two pages. I imagined the full report will be considerably larger and Sara Hussain. What do you want to see come out of this report? I think we definitely like to see some action action by Israel action by the Palestinian Authority also actually by international community. I just want to mention one thing in terms of the findings. We did also make findings that onto into if the incidents we looked at on the fourteenth of Maine on the twelfth of October that may have been some justification for the shootings on the fourteenth of may. We found an incident in which twenty one people were killed. But we think that may have been issue direct participation in hostilities, possibly justifying the shoot us and that requires investigation as well. But we think that all the findings. We have is in full rethink. It's critical that within thirty to watch in front of us the end of this. She of the stars of the so-called great much return. It's very important that the international community take action to ensure that this death stolen this injuries. To doesn't continue calling for protective monitoring to be put in place. We calling for action to. End end this this terrible death toll an injury to let has been continue of the last year and continue Sarah. Hussein I wanna thank you for being with us member of the UN, independent commission, led the Gaza investigation, Norman, Finkelstein, author and scholar. His most recent book Gaza and inquest into its martyrdom. We'll be back in thirty seconds. The ni. Some. This is democracy. Now, I'm Amy Goodman, and immigrant rights. Activists has been detained in Florida. Just weeks after appeared in claim film at the Sundance film festival about activists infiltrating exposing for profit immigrant. Attention jails, cloudy row house was upper handed Wednesday by immigration and customs enforcement after an annual check-in. He's now being held at the Krome detention center where he faces immediate deportation. His lawyer says arrest is linked to the film, featuring his activism. It's called the infiltrators. The gripping hybrid documentary dramatic feature was a smash success at Sundance will play at the Miami film festival Tuesday. But cloudy, a row house will not be there to see it attorney sandy Pineda told the Washington Post, quote, I definitely think it's retaliation for them to take the stance and to just rest him. So suddenly for no apparent reason? It's very unusual. She said the infiltrators is based on the incredible true. Story of undocumented immigrants who purposefully got themselves arrested by federal authorities in order to infiltrate the Broward transitional center in Florida and organize the prisoners within its walls, cloudy, a row Haas worked with the activists on the inside a father of two with no criminal record spent seven months at Broward in two thousand twelve after he was detained by officials outside Florida home, the scene was portrayed in the infiltrators begins with loan care worker in Broward County, Florida. Inside men was cloudy auroras. He just didn't know. Life was pretty ordinary just like anyone else. Home after work. I like to go fishing and weekends family back in Argentina. I'm at the park with Billy on. Say hi Liliana. Who's a Friday morning? Minoan day on us. I woke up at seven thirty. Psychotic. Take out the trash on essay. I went out wearing only shorts. At the end of that clip. We see an actor playing cloudy a row Haas being ambushed by ice. Officers says he takes out the trash the infiltrators directed by Christina badeah. And Alex Rivera features video the Anna Martinez and Marcus federa- young dreamers who were brought to the United States is children as organizers with the national immigrant youth alliance. Videon Marco enter the brower transition transitional center in two thousand twelve and when undercover to expose conditions at the detention center and help him grins fight deportations. They worked with activists on the outside including Muhammad Ali lie. A young gay undocumented running immigrant when they were arrested and jailed inside they worked alongside cloudy a row who eventually was released from detention after a highly publicized hunger. Strike now. Cloudy a row house faces deportation. Once again, we'll democracy now sat down with Alex. Era. Vedeno Martinez and Hamad Abdillahi this year at the Sundance film festival. I began by asking co director, Alex Rivera, why he made the film booth Christine me about my co-director myself. People have come from immigrant families. We have undocumented family members, and when we decided to become filmmakers, we sort of dove into border issues and immigration issues. As a kind of lifelong commitment, really I've been making work sort of in and around the question of immigration for about twenty years. But in twenty ten we saw something that we've never seen before which was undocumented immigrants risking deportation. As part of an act of political protest doing sit ins blocking roads sitting in John McCain's office and risking deportation. To force a decision on behalf of the government about their status. And it was a disturbing thing to see in the news. It was shocking, and I wanted to understand it better. And so through some mutual friends, I reached out to what would become the Nash. Immigrant youth alliance to Mohammed and the group of other young undocumented folks who surrounded him or worked with him and said, I wanna make film, and I thought it was gonna make short film. It'd be a month or two and every time I tried to edit the film, they went and did something more interesting more radical, and so I had to stop editing, and Christina, and I started to kind of film and try to wrestle with. What was unfolding in this moment of great activism, and sort of experimentation? What's interesting is you didn't make documentary here. So talk about that choice. Sure. So film booth the national immigrant youth alliance for about two years, and after that cycle of action after they sort of after DACA was passed in the movement kind of settled down a little bit. We look back at the footage, and this one part of the story, which was the infiltration of the Broward detention center seemed like the story that had a really fantastic beginning middle and end, and by focusing on one story, you could see a lot of other dynamics of other histories a lot of other problems. And so the only problem with that though is that we only film half of the story. Meaning that we were with this activist group that was sending undocumented folks into the detention Senate. But once they went in they disappeared, they disappeared from our camera, and they disappeared from their their friends on the outside. And so how do you tell a story in which you can only see half of it in this visual medium? And so our solution was to work in a kind of hybrid form where the outside of the detention center with the real people going through this real action in real time. But then when they go into the detention center, we turn them into actors, and we use wardrobe hair makeup casting to try to make a kind of continuity. So you know, as a viewer, you know, who you're following. But you also see a little difference. And so the characters into this kind of suspended place that suspended in the detention center and also suspended in this sort of format of fiction, and so the two forms the black box entering the blab into the black box. And you feel it textually in the film itself that they're. Other landscape, but then in detention, they sometimes pick up the phone and call out to the documentary layer, so both Christina. And I it's important us filmmakers to try to tell stories that are urging tell stories that are relevant to the political moment we're living in but also to play with the form and invite audience in audience to see a film. That's as weird formerly and adventurous and its form as the activists were in their actions secretly hoping that after you get your award here at Sundance that you turn this film into it's kind of an immigrant version of oranges, the new black. But we'll talk about that later. So. Oh, my tina's. You are the real undocumented immigrant who goes into the detention center in two thousand twelve we spoke to you in detention center. But let's go back a little bit and talk about this decision that you made. I mean, you were risking everything. Talk about your life here where you were born and why you would voluntarily try to get yourself arrested or detained. So that you're taking into a center that could lead to your deportation. Yeah. Well, I was I was born in Mexico. And I was brought here to the US when I was seven years old. And then I when I graduated high school, and my couldn't go to college because my status I lived in. I lived in North Carolina. That's where I grew up and everything, and so I became active in the community as a result of that background. And and I of started in immigrant use lead organization in North Carolina. And then we started working on deportation cases. And by working cases. I mean, we would hear that our friends we're getting deported lots of dreamers at the time used that have been brought here as children and couldn't were undocumented and come out undocumented. I was publicly two thousand and nine was when I came out that was like ten years ago. So I was like twenty two. Yeah. We're you scared. Make your pronouncement. Yes. It was at this rally, actually, where somebody had told people my story in like, you know, like like settings like private settings. But never like publicly until somebody. We were at this rally. Somebody had heard my story, and they handed me a Mike, and they said, we talk, and so I started talking about. About you know, who I was and being documented, and that was the first time that I came afraid was ice. There is wasn't there. But the police was there, and I was definitely afraid. But but I was willing to face that fear because living in the shadows was no longer an option for me. So you became an activist. Yes. And talk about what you decided to do in two thousand twelve and let's be clear. This is an under Trump. This is under President Obama. Yes. Thank you for clarifying that. Yeah. I I decided to to turn myself in and be part of this action. When I learned that there was a woman section Marco, let us know that. And and we had been like I was explaining we had been working with people who were facing deportation for several years at that point. And we knew that we had the ability to stop are deported. And so even though it was a risk. I was willing to take that risk because I knew that we had the power to get me out. If things went south. Let's go right now to Camargo who was the first of the undocumented immigrants to turn himself in at the Broward detention center, he came onto microscope now. Afterwards and talked about how tough this decision was. And what happened what we've found on what we've developed since we started this campaign, and I was in the center for about twenty three days was many many detainees who has used said qualify as low priority for deportation including the case of cloud deal hus-, who's an Argentinian father and is now on his seventeenth day of his hunger strike because as an expression of his face. But also a statement saying that the worst has happened to me being separated from my family for the past six months and using his body as a sacrifice aware as an example of this. He's already endured he's willing to do that. And because of that was separated from and was taken from Broward transitional center to chrome detention facility in order to be removed from the other detainees that we're also beginning to organize as he had his story. Why is he one of the people who would be released under Obama's program under the prosecutor discussion memo, correct as outlined? In the summer of twenty eleven he would be a perfect candidate. He was removed sittings about two years ago when he was attained with the sun after kind of traffic minor traffic infraction. They were trying to enter a port, and they didn't have valid identification. So they were both in the tension for three months and his his son is dream act. Trouble in the us. And so his case was dropped but cloudy received one hundred twenty days to leave the country and disobeyed it because he'd rather choose to say with his family and provide for them and so receive in a deportation order, not obain now, that's the biggest thing that that is really hurting his campaign for his release. So that's Marco describing unto macroscopic now who is featured in this film both. The reenactment of when he went inside with an actor and also himself when he gets out via describe what happened to you you go into the where did you go? Yeah. So my first attempt was at the customs and border patrol office where Marco was able to turn himself in. And I was unsuccessful the second. You say I said, I was I was I think what it the reason that I was unsuccessful is because I was dressed very nicely. I had a nice like summer dress and I had makeup on. And and so I just said. I think I want to turn myself in. But like I try to do broken English that like really sounded like I was playing around because I didn't prepare like, I didn't think it was going to be that difficult. And when the officer gave me this look like. What are you doing here? What do you want? And then he called another officer. And that's when I realized oh, this isn't working. I'm going to go. Yeah. Because he said I saw you get out of the car. Draw to off. And you know, and so yeah. So at that point, I said, okay. I'm this is the wrong place. I'm gonna go by. And then we had to try again later, but in order to try again, we actually played through the role of like and even like I dress differently to fit the to fit. What like a day labor? Looks like you know, and sound like that. I mean, I spoke only Spanish. And then I basically had to beg and where did you turn yourself in? Then I turned myself in successful. You the second time. It was a port of the Fort Lauderdale port of entry. And what did you say documented? I was crying. I said that my husband had been deported that I had been fired that I had no job and. I just needed to be. I just wanted to go, and then I had nothing left here. And and they they didn't want to take me on these are, you sure, you sure that you can probably do more for your family. If you stay here. You know, we can find you help. And again, I said, no, no, I don't wanna be here. Please just take me. I had to bag them and cry and you send your documented. Yes. Yes. Wouldn't that be enough for them to take? That's what you think. Right. Yeah. For all the people who are trying not to get deported drag say, you're undocumented. But they ultimately took you, right? They ultimately did. Yes. Yes. I was I wasn't handcuffed. At that moment. I was actually I think they were still trying to figure out what to do and why I was begging to be deported. They transferred me to the customs and border patrol facility there. They process me again where they pulled up actually some of my. Arrest records of being arrested and other like actions other protesting stuff, but I was able to get around that by like saying other stuff. So as to not say, oh, yeah. I protested. That's why I got I haven't arrest record. And then I was taken to a room for several hours until they finally drove me to to brower transitional center describe walking into Broward. What that felt like you were put in an orange jumpsuit? It wasn't an orange jumpsuit that I was put and it was actually a gray like just grey. Sweatpants sweatshirt, and and it took hours for me to process. I mean when I finally made it into my room in Broward. It was like five AM, I turned myself in at seven PM. So it took hours described the attention center who you were placed with and then how you started to come out to this was a women's women's facility. Yes, Broward has both men and women, but you're divided. Yes. Broward has way less women than men. There's only like up to one hundred women, and there's like six hundred men so the women's area is very like it's very secluded. It's it's one it's one hallway with lots of rooms. I actually ended up in the same room as muddy when I when I got into the room. She saw me when I got there in the morning and she helped. Me do my bed and everything and the next morning when we went to lunch, I just like started talking to her and the other girls, and I told her, you know, yeah, we've been in touch with the ASO with with the husband of someone here. And she said. Who to tell me, and I told her yet mighty mighty? Then she said. And we just looked at each other. And we were like she was like that's that. That's me. And I heard about this. But I didn't know that it was real that. It was really going to happen. And she was just blown away. And I was blown away that I ended up in the same room as her. It was crazy. Immigrant rights activists. Video Martinez who stores in the infiltrators along with fellow activist Hamid of Delancey and the film's co-director, Alex Rivera. We'll be back with them in thirty seconds. Don't bend me in by John versa. Big band, featuring artists, this is democracy. Now. I mean, he Goodman, we're looking at the infiltrators new film based on the incredible true story of undocumented immigrants who purposefully got themselves arrested by federal authorities in order to infiltrate a for profit immigrant jail in Florida. We spoke with the co director, Alex Rivera and the activists featured in the film video Martinez. Muhammad of the lie at the Sundance film festival in Park City, Utah talk about this coordination on the outside who decides to go in who decides to stay outside mo- you were born in Iran urine documented, you're not even protected by DACA right now. So everything you're doing is unprotected via, you know, Donka pretension. Well, yes. But I would argue Dhaka's not protection. Yeah. Because it's not I mean, it's discretionary the same way that I got it. I can get taken away. So mo-. Are you decided not to go inside you coordinate? What does it mean to coordinate and explain what information you needed from people on the inside to help them? Yeah. I mean, I couldn't go inside the detention center because I also don't speak Spanish, limitations. In terms of our outside role in how we decided how folks went in. We had really been doing deportation cases since we were advocating for the dream act. And when we were advocating for the dramatic. We had a lot of our friends getting deported. And we learn sort of through the Obama administration how we can build support for friends to stop their deportations. And so whenever we got to the Broward detention center, we had sort of figured out that we can safely get folks in together stories and get them out whenever the time was right. That was sort of our political calculation. The goal of brower was this came right after Dacca. That's the important thing for us. When Dacko was announced the folks from the national immigrant, youth lines. We were occupying Obama's campaign offices. We're still sitting offices the day after the announcement sort of trying to tell the world that there are going to be dreamers getting deported. This policy's not going to be executed fully, and we sort of found voices going into the void. And so two thousand twelve running for reelection. So that was all over the country happen. Yeah. June two thousand twelve. We were sitting in offices, and we just sort of realized we're screaming into the void. Nobody's listening to us. And that's sort of the plan for Broward was hatched of. How can we show everybody that regardless of what they say they're doing behind the scenes are people are actually being harmed. And so we went down to Florida as the outside team. Our role was pretty much the minute that the folks inside got access to the phone which was like seven AM until eleven pm. They would start calling us and giving us information. So the first day that Marco got inside the detention center that day he called us like around eight thirty in the morning, and he had a list of names and numbers of people inside the detention center what their family contacts. So I would literally just sit there with a sketch pad. He would give me a name a number phone number name a number phone number. We did that over and over every single day until he was released as the outside team. It wasn't just a few of us. We were in a sort of house and Florida with about four. Four of us that were on the ground that were the point of contact with families getting information helping design campaigns locally, but we were had the entire backing of the national immigrant youth ally. And so we had a whole team that was in Philadelphia in Michigan Ohio that would draft petitions we had another group of folks that were all law students that would draft legal filings. Now, the key was and in the film, Marcos's, usual Marco is usually doing this. But getting these prisoners to sign away their privacy rights, so people could learn about their case. Did you also do that with the women? So so that's that's where the trust issue comes in. And because there wasn't I mean there there were women who did it. But there wasn't as many there wasn't as because of the. The the mistrust than the what if this gets me deport and what is the goal, though, if they sign away their privacy rights. How does that help them get out because that's the only way that congressional offices agreed to inquire with the chess with deployment security is about the status of their cases. And Alex is it true the way it all happened. I mean, you add Marco inside. And he was getting all these documents somehow ice caught on and the geo group which runs the prison. We'll talk about that in a minute that he was handing papers to someone in the visiting room. So they said no longer could they hand papers to each other. Is that how it went? I mean, the film is kind of a hybrid in between documentary and fiction and in the fictional world. We sometimes synthesize and condense things this sort of big shape of the story is based entirely on the truth until one of the threads in the story. It's kind of as director tried to amplify kind of a heist element. To it. We sometimes called it. The ocean's eleven of immigration. We wanted to make a film that would bringing a new kind of audience for this type of story mode, dropping the envelopes of privacy waivers into the garbage and some other immigrant who is pushing the garbage along with go drop it onto the floor and the guy pushing the broom we'd go into the detention waiting room, pushing this broom with papers under it. And then the immigrant activists in the waiting room would pick up the document and drop other documents. So that others could side and go like that. And that's the essence of the truth that basically that the privacy waivers were a part an essential part of the campaign to basically turn the detention center inside out the detention centers designed to disappear people to make them invisible. And when they sign away their privacy rights with sounds vulnerable. It sounds risky, but it actually is part of empowerment letting letting inside be seen by journalists and by politicians, so these papers going in and out quickly. Whereas central to the campaign, and so as storytellers we tried to amplify that that element of it know, how many people were you able to document inside. We had three hundred fifty folks that we were in direct contact with by the end of that three weeks, and we had missed probably a good two three hundred phone calls. We had about one hundred fifty active campaigns that we were directly working on. And there was about one hundred twenty folks that we saw get out on discretional mints when you would call a family member on the outside where so touching so beautiful. You talked about how important that was just to you to keep going, but describe that. Yeah. I mean for us like the thought that we constantly had going in our minds as we were working on this project is how can the system be so broken that the best hope these people have is a group of documented youth have not gone to college. We're not license attorneys. We're not anything, and we are somehow the best hope people have. And so it was very sort of reenergize. For us to connect with other undocumented people and have them see through our actions and are working together that as undocumented folks, we can empower one another and really achieve these things. And that's what those happy moments really meant for. Let's talk about the uprising in the courtyard. Marco is taken everyone is afraid he's going to be deported. Yeah. And then this chant goes up Libertad freedom freedom, and everyone who had been very afraid and quiet. Suddenly, it's chanting. Yes. Yes. I remember hearing it when I was when I was finally taken downstairs again and put in a room, and they said you need it you need to put out you need to change out. And I said, where's my phone? And they're like we were not giving you that onto and I'm like the whole time. You know, I'm trying to get my phone because I just wanted to document stuff, but they wouldn't give it to me. So anyways. So then I start hearing when they stick me in this room. And I'm like worse Marco. And then I start hearing chanting, and I'm like, oh, God what's going on? It was like something out of a movie. Your converging. And the other document at activists and others your allies are converging on the outside of the jail of the detention center as the inside people are shouting Libertad freedom freedom. Yeah. I mean, we were by the point beady and Marco we're ready to get out of the detention center. We felt like we had made our point to every single guard ice official excetera that existed in Florida that we will go to no links to help families and yet. So we went through. We would go to all links at any links. I think for me the real undercurrent of this action at Broward was that. We wanted to send a message to the ice officers border patrol every single time, you detain somebody. Could they be an infiltrator? We don't know. And so that's really what we wanted to get across to get them to second guessed every single action. They have I think there's like for the media, for example, when we went public that Vidino was inside. And Marco is inside we were very intentional that every single room inside of that detention center had a TV because they wanted people to just be like zombies looking at the TV we knew that the folks that are inside are always watching certain media channels. And so we specifically worked on deals with those media outlets. I mean, every little tiny bit of this action was very plan to use the system against itself in a way that other folks can replicate and that's for me personally. I think this project, and this film and everything can really be a flair for a lot of folks who may lack the clear, tip creativity. Energy or to know that we can do more than sort of resist right now. That's what messes that we want. This film to get people is that you can use every little bit of it. I think by the end of the infiltration close to Markel is about to get out. We were to the point where we will tell people that would call go to room three. Oh, six pick up a blink privacy waiver give it to room two five and they'll deliver it to us. Like yet. It's easy. Who were you able to get out you and Marco did you actually able to free people? Oh, yeah. I mean, this was after we got kicked out of of Broward, we stayed around for six months. We didn't I didn't live in Florida prior to this. I mean, this I went there specifically for this project. So we continue to working for like six months on getting people released the Alex if you could talk about where geo fits in and where does ice fit in? How does this work? We're talking about government, and we're talking about private companies. Sure in the film sort of simplify. So you really see a lot of you see a lot of the geo corporation in the film the geo corporation owns the facility runs it. They administer labor program which has been the subject of a recent lawsuit because they pay the detainees a dollar a day and the real way that they kind of compelled detainees to work to clean, the floors to wash the uniforms to cook the food to run the entire facility for a wage of a dollar a day the way they compel that labor is through withholding visitation rights. So if you refuse to work, you get to see your family your loved ones once every two weeks, but if you participate in this basically forced labour program, then you get to see your loved ones once a week. And I remember when Marco emerged from the detention center that was the first thing he was talking about. I think he sort of learned that inside I learned it from him. And it was shocking today is the subject of a lawsuit. Infiltrators co director, Alex Rivera and immigrant rights activists. Vide- Danny Martinez and Muhammad after Laffy the infiltrators will be screened at the Miami film festival on Tuesday. And. Starting Friday at south by southwest Austin, Texas, and that does it for the show a very fun. Farewell to area Boone. We will miss your passion. Your dedication your wisdom and your puns punter dome. Star you have made democracy now so much better. I'm speaking Denver Martina, these high school check our website. I made me Goodman. Thanks so much for joining us.
NPR News: 10-01-2019 2AM ET
"This message comes from NPR sponsor xfinity. Some things are slow like a snail races. Other things are fast like Xfinity X. by get get fast speeds even when everyone is online working to make WIFI simple easy awesome more at xfinity dot com restrictions apply live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Shay Stevens President trump the White House is trying to learn more about the whistle blower for who filed a complaint about his interactions with Ukraine's government as NPR's. I usually Roscoe reports trump maintains. There was nothing wrong with this summer phone call with Ukraine's as president president trump maintains. He did nothing wrong on that call back in July that is now at the center of an impeachment inquiry in the house. Call was perfect her when the muscle blower he made it sound terrible. The whistleblowers identity is protected by law and he or she is not supposed to be subject to retaliation taliation. The description of trump's call in the complaint is largely in line with the rough transcript of the call released by the White House trump did ask Ukraine's president look into an unsubstantiated claim of corruption against former vice president Joe Biden and his son Hunter Aisha Roscoe. NPR news the Whitehouse a northern in California man is facing espionage charges as K. Q. E. D. Sara Hussain he reports the suspect is accused of spying for China the US Attorney's office alleges is that Edward Pong acted as a go-between currying money and classified national security information between Chinese intelligence and unbeknownst to him a double agent working for the US the FBI says Chinese spies are actively targeting both Trade Insecurity Secrets Special Agent Jack Bennett says punks case shows knows that the US will pursue those who assist foreign adversaries in any way handcuffs transparent prosecutions prison are the new reality fool fool those behavior Peng faces a maximum sentence of ten years and two hundred and fifty thousand dollar fine for NPR news. I'm Sarah Husseini in San Francisco. Disco China's Communist Party is celebrating its seventieth anniversary in power with parade showcasing its economic development and newest weapons. China's military is displayed a new hypersonic ballistic nuclear missile that is believed to be capable of breaching all existing. US anti-missile shields the vehicle mounted de- F seventeen eighteen reported leak and fly a much lower altitude just before delivering a warhead jury deliberations continue Tuesday in the murder trial of a former Dallas police officer. Amy Geiger maintains that she thought she had entered her own apartment when she fatally shot both. I'm John in closing arguments. Monday lead prosecutor Jason Her. I missed said that Geiger could have done a lot of things differently accept the premise that she could just walk into somebody's home who was no threat to anybody. Kill that person walk away with Jesus really messed up. There is absolutely unreasonable. Defense attorneys insist that Geiger's actions were understandable and reasonable. They say other residents of the same complex have mistakenly gone to the wrong apartment. You're listening to NPR news a loss Monday by California Governor Gavin newsom would allow college athletes in the state to share some of the prophets they generate in defiance of NCWA the rules newsom and others cast it as an attempt to bring more fairness to big money college athletics and let player share in the wealth they create the law set to take effect in twenty twenty three the Islamic Group. Al Shabaab launched an attack on an American airfield in Somalia Monday. NPR's Ava Peralta reports that the US responded responded with two airstrikes the United States Africa Command says militants tried to breach wall with a car bomb that Bella military airfield sixty miles outside of if Mogadishu American troops responded with small arms fire and called for two airstrikes that the US says killed ten militants at the same time al-shabaab attack attack the European Union convoy with another bomb it damaged vehicle but this group did not hurt or kill any American or European troops. al-shabaab Bob Wants Western countries out of Somalia so it can institute a radical Islamist regime over the past year. The United States has stepped up its bombing campaign but that has not stopped. Al Shabaab attacks against civilian and military targets it brought up NPR news Nairobi New York Congressman Chris Collins just leaving serving the US House of Representatives ahead of his expected guilty plea in an insider trading case Collin's resignation is to take effect Tuesday. When a federal judge I just get to hear excel a hearing for him to enter a guilty plea to unspecified charges. I'm Shay Stevens N._P._R. News in Washington.
NPR News: 01-24-2020 1AM ET
"Live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Shay Stevens House. Impeachment managers argued again Thursday. The president trump put his own when interest above the nation's by peddling debunked theory that Russia did not interfere in the twenty sixteen elections as NPR's cloudy agree salish reports. Prosecutors showed food day call evidence that trump illegally salt a personal fever from Ukraine House. Managers played a video during the Senate impeachment trial showing Russian President President Vladimir Putin gloating that Ukraine was getting accused of interfering in the two thousand sixteen elections lead house impeachment manager. Adam Schiff noted. The video even showed a Putin thanking God in the remarks thank God Putin says well you gotTa Give Donald Trump credit for this. He has made a religious man out of Latimer Putin. US intelligence agencies found. It was Russia Not Ukraine that interfered in the two thousand sixteen elections cloudy Augie Silas. NPR News Washington the trump administration is finalising its roll back federal protections for some of the nation's waterways the changes removed some restrictions opposed by farmers farmers and developers the heads of the EPA and Army Corps of Engineers signed the new rule before attending a Las Vegas Convention of Real Estate Developers. The State Department says it will not issue tourist visas to pregnant women suspected of heading to the United States to give birth consulate officials will have the authority to decide where the travelers is. Intent is to obtain constitutionally guaranteed citizenship poor child porn in the US no word on how those officials will determine the pregnancy status of women who are not showing showing. The policy takes effect Friday and the President says he plans to expand his travel ban to more countries is QA. Dis Sara Hussain reports. There's a lot of concern among immigrants whose homelands might be on the list. The Red Sea Restaurant in Oakland California is known for its Eritrean buffet. It's bear that I find able to feel the sixty year old came to the. US for decades ago was a war if you G and has been planning his first trip back to see his brother and other family family this year but I'm not taking that risk even though I I'm qualified to come back because I'm more American than I am. Everything is there feel has has a green card and shouldn't be directly affected by a ban. But he's not leaving until he has more details. Several news organizations report that Eritrea is one of the countries facing restrictions cents for NPR news. I'm Sarah Husseini in Oakland. Hundreds of Central Americans clashed with troops in southern Mexico again Thursday. They were trying to pass through the country to reach the US border after marching for hours from Guatemala. Most of the migrants were forced onto buses along rule Mexican highway for Transport Court to detention centers on stock markets in Asia shares are mixed at the soured lower in Shanghai. You're listening to NPR news. Former pharmaceutical executive John Kapoor has received a five and a half year prison sentence for his role in the OPIOID crisis. Gabriella Emmanuel of member member station W. G. B. H. has more CA- forest drug company. insys therapeutics ran a nationwide. Bribery scheme may pay doctors to prescribe their opioid painkiller and then lied to insurance companies. To make sure the costly medication was covered now. Seven insists executives including have been sentenced to prison time. US Attorney Andrew. Andrew Welling says this was a landmark case in the government's effort to fight the OPIOID crisis. This is not only about punishing these defendants. It's also about deterrence loving allowing said he thought Kapoor's five and a half cents was too short federal. Prosecutors requested fifteen years before his lawyers say they will appeal for NPR news and Gabriella L.. Let you manual in Boston in the Seattle area a manhunt continues for two gunmen. Wanted in the killing of one person and the wounding of several others earlier this this week in the city's downtown area Mayor Jenny Durken is calling from work. Gun Control Laws. We need a call to action on gun violence across America and in Seattle Gun. Violence anywhere is unacceptable and it is a specially jarring when it occurs in the heart of our city where tens of thousands of people work shop and live and happens and one of the most busy intersections at the most busy time of day beliefs. Say say surveillance footage enabled them to identify the wanted suspects and a third person who's in custody. I'm Shay Stevens N._P._R.. News in Washington.
Democracy Now! 2019-03-08 Friday
"Brown. Pacifica. This is democracy. Now, I have people every single day on Fox News everywhere. Posting that I am a threat to this country. So I know what fear looks like. The message. The mustard I am. In Minnesota bombed by to the Mesic white terrorists as the house passes a broad resolution condemning anti semitism, anti Muslim bigotry and other forms of hate. We'll hear from congresswoman Ilhan Omar in her own words, her recent comments on US foreign policy on Israel sparked an intense debate in the house about anti semitism, but little attention has been paid to hurt larger message. Plus, we get a response to the house resolution from his rarely journalist getting Levy in Tel Aviv. Phyllis Bennis of the institute for policy. Studies in Washington and Palestinian, poet and activist Remmy here in New York and on this International Women's Day. We speak with the Mexican American author Valeria Lewis Sally, author of the new novel the loss children archive these children coming from central. Not to be seen as migrant is young migrants. But as refugees because of the situation that they are fleeing they are they are trying to see silent here they turned selves into border patrol and seek asylum. That's not here. Trying to get into an ego. They they don't want to remain on documented. No, no one has. It's not good the destiny, but anyone desires Louis was just long listed for the two thousand nineteen women's prize for fiction all that and more coming. Well. To democracy now democracy now dot or the Warren peace report, I may make Goodman, a federal judge in Virginia sentenced Donald Trump's former campaign chair Paul Manafort Thursday to forty seven months in prison for eight counts of Bank fraud and tax evasion. Far less than the nineteen to twenty four year prison term recommended by federal sentencing guidelines US district. Judge Tia Selous who was nominated to the bench by president. Ronald Reagan called the sentencing guidelines outlined by special counsel, Robert Muller's team excessive and said Manafort head lead, otherwise blameless life in response. New york. Congressman Alexandra custody Cortez tweeted, Paul Manafort, getting such little jail time for such serious crimes lays out for the world. How it's almost impossible for rich people to go to jail for the same amount of time as someone who is lower income and our current broken system. Justice isn't blind. It's bought she tweeted. Paul Manafort faces a second sentencing hearing at a federal court in the district of Columbia next week onto additional counts of conspiracy. The house of representatives overwhelmingly passed a resolution Thursday condemning antisemitism, anti Muslim discrimination, white, supremacy, racism and other forms of hate the vote was four hundred seven two twenty three with nearly two dozen Republicans voting against it. The vote capped a week of intense debate. Among congressional Democrats that began after some lawmakers accused Democratic Congress member Ilhan, Omar of invoking, antisemitic tropes or questioning US foreign policy on Israel at an event last week. Omar said, quote, I wanna talk about political influence in this country. That says it's okay for people to push for legions to a foreign country. Democrat Eliot Engel chair of the house foreign affairs committee, then accused Omar of making a quote, vile, anti semitic slur, the house leadership initially drafted a resolution. Condemning antisemitism was seen as a direct rebuke of Omar. But many progressive Democrats said Omar who is one of the first tuneless lem congresswomen in US history was unfairly being singled out later in the broadcast. We'll hear from Tel Aviv. We'll speak with Israeli journalists. Get on Livy and Washington DC and New York for discussion about congress member. Ilhan Omar's comments on the resolution that was passed yesterday in Venezuela President Nicolas Medeiros, blaming the US government for prolonged power outage that plunge most of the country into darkness Thursday doodo says anti-government Subba tors backed by the US took the nation's main hydro electric power station at the gory damn off-line. The blackout compounded the misery Venezuelans already enduring severe economic crisis. Amidst crippling US led sanctions US secretary of state, Mike Pompeo, blame Durose government for the outage and threaten regime change in a flu. Uri of tweets one of which read no food, no medicine now. No power next. No maduro. Meanwhile, President Trump's special uninvite to Venezuela Elliot Abrams told the Senate panel Thursday. The Trump administration will sanction banks that trade with the Madero government. A number of financial institutions already. And we're going to expand the net we have under consideration other institutions, which I won't name because we don't want them to get advance notice. But there will be more sanctions on financial institutions that are carrying out the orders of the Madero regime to steal funds from Venezuela and hide it all around the world on Thursday, sixteen progressive House Democrats, including row Khanna Ilhan. Omar, Alexandra custody Cortez sent a letter to secretary of state Pompeo condemning US threats of military intervention in Venezuela and US sanctions. The letter read in part the president's recent economic sanctions threaten to exacerbate the country's grave economic crisis causing immense suffering for the most vulnerable in society who bear no responsibility for the situation in the country. They wrote Israel's election committee has banned alliance of his really our parties from fielding candidates. In APRIL's general election. The move will bar candidates from that Ballade United Arab List, which represents Palestinian citizens of Israel from running for Israel's parliament, the Knesset. The ban was celebrated by the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu who said in a statement those who support terrorism will not be in the Israeli Knesset Palestinian candidate heb yards. Bach said the measure had nothing to do with terror and was instead aimed at stifling Palestinian rights, actually, bending or to choose their leaders. We force would go to the high court, and we it was continuing till the end and fix this nation and against the people in Israel the ban on it's rarely Arab candidates came as Israel's election committee said it would allow members of the far right Jewish power party to run an APRIL's election. The party's tied to the Jewish Defense League far right group that was classified in two thousand by the FBI as a right wing terrorist group, the soul comes as Israel's attorney general says he's prepared to indict Netanyahu on corruption charges in France a court Thursday, sentenced cardinal Philippe. Barba the Roman Catholic archbishop Leone to six months suspended prison sentence for failing to act on the sexual abuse of boy scouts in his diocese. The archbishop was found guilty of failing to report allegations of abuse in the eighties. Nineties by priest to set to go on trial later this year in climate news. New study finds rainstorms are becoming far more frequent across Greenland, even in winter exceleron, the melting vast areas of ice and setting the stage for global sea level rise that could inundate coastal areas. Home to hundreds of millions of people. The study published in the journal Krause fear found warmer. Temperatures have led to. Increase rainfall in Greenland, which triggers widespread ice melt and run off contributing to the two hundred seventy billion tons of Greenland's ice at each year to the earth's oceans US army whistle blower, Chelsea Manning says she's headed to federal court today. We're she'll face possible jail time for criminal contempt after she declined to offer questions before a grand jury to answer questions. Manning says she was subpoenaed by federal prosecutors Virginia's eastern district to appear for questioning Wednesday about her two thousand ten released to WikiLeaks of hundreds of thousands of State Department and Pentagon documents about the US wars Iraq and Afghanistan last year. The prosecutors inadvertently revealed they've indicted WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange under a sealed indictment, but the charges against Assange remain, unknown in Sacramento, California, protests are continuing over the police killing of Stefan. Clark a twenty two year. Year old unarmed African American who was shot dead in his grandmother's backyard last year demonstrations erupted over the weekend after county prosecutors said they would not press criminal charges against the officers who unleash twenty bullets at Clark within just seven seconds and waited for over five minutes before pro ching him to administer medical attention on Tuesday. Angry residents protested the killing at Sacramento's city council meeting briefly disrupting proceedings and on Thursday, hundreds of students from Sacramento City College, and c k McClatchy high school walked out of classes to protest the decision. Not to prosecute the officers who killed Stefan Clark in Florida jury in West Palm Beach found former police officer Norman Raja guilty Thursday of manslaughter and attempted murder for shooting and killing thirty one year old korry Jones, October of two thousand fifteen Jones who's African American was having car. Trouble and waiting for Toczek when the officer drove the wrong. Way up a one way ramp and approached him in an unmarked van at the time. The officer was wearing plain clothes did not identify himself as a police officer Jones apparently feared he was being robbed pulled out a legally purchase handgun the officer. Then opened fire and shot Jones multiple times, the officers the first on duty Florida officer convicted and shooting in thirty years. Police in Boulder Colorado have launched an internal affairs probe after video surfaced showing a white police officer drawing a pistol on a black man who was picking up trash outside his own home last week, the video shows the officer approaching the man who is using a trash picker and bucket to clean up his yard. Shoot. He's picking up trash and your have your hand on your gun. Go home in a police report. The officer claimed the man with uncooperative and unwilling to put down a blunt object. Even though the man and his roommate repeatedly identified the object as a trash picker the officer who drew his weapon has been placed on paid administrative leave pending the investigation in New York City. Prosecutors have dropped rape charges against a pair of officers accused of salting woman, they'd arrested and handcuffed and their police van in two thousand seventeen prosecutors initially said former NYPD detectives Eddie Martins and Richard Hall raped eighteen year old and chambers after stopping her car and finding a small amount of marijuana and a few anti anxiety pills in her purse testing shows DNA of both officers was found on the teenager. Who testified she was raped the former officers claim the actual consensual as. As their defense at the time. It was not unlawful for New York. Police officers to have sex with someone in their custody. Although the law has since been changed define such an act is rape. Prosecutors now say they'll seek to charge the men with fish oil misconduct and bribery in eerie, Pennsylvania union workers have agreed to end their nine day old strike at a locomotive plant, the largest work stoppage at a US factory since Donald Trump became president in late February more than seventeen hundred members the United electrical workers union decided to strike after the web tech company took control of their plant from GE and refused to honor the unions prior contract. Thursday's agreement will provide a ninety day window for the union and plant managers to negotiate a new collective bargaining agreement. El Salvador supreme court has ordered the release of three women imprisoned under the country's anti-abortion laws, which are among the harshest in the world. The women were among dozens who've been sentenced to up to thirty years for abortion related crimes. This is out Baraja. Guess who was freed Thursday after more than eight years in prison. We think the citizens associations, the, national and international organizations that supported us. And we hope the state also recognizes that there are many women inside here that are also innocent and God willing one day can gain their freedom to and women around. The world are marking International Women's Day with protests for pay equity reproductive rights, an end to sexual violence in Spain thousands of women have gone on strike today to defend gender violence legislation against efforts by far right politicians to repeal the landmark law and in Paris women gathered outside Saudi Arabia's embassy for a protest, led by Amnesty International demanding the release of jailed women activists in Saudi Arabia, and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy. Now democracy now dot or the Warren peach report, I mainly Goodman, the house of representatives overwhelmingly passed a resolution Thursday condemning antisemitism, anti Muslim discrimination, white supremacy and other forms. Hate the vote was four hundred seven two twenty three with nearly two dozen Republicans voting against it. The vote capped a week of intense debate. Among congressional Democrats began after some lawmakers accuse democratic congressman Ilhan, Omar of invoking anti semitic tropes, while questioning US foreign policy on Israel at an event last week. Congressman Omar said, quote, I wanna talk about political influence in this country. That says it's okay for people to push for legions to a foreign country. Democrat Eliot Engel chair of the house foreign affairs committee, which ill hunts, Omar sit says well, then accused Omar of making a quote, anti vile, anti semitic slur, the house leadership initially drafted a resolution condemning antisemitism, and what was seen as a direct rebuke of Omar, but many progressive Democrats, and Omar who was one of the first two Muslim congresswoman in US history was unfairly being singled out. Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders wrote we must not quite antisemitism with. Legitimate criticism of the right wing Netanyahu government in Israel, New York. Congress member Alexandra Cossio Cortez tweeted incidents, like these do beg the question where are the resolutions against homophobic statements for anti blackness for Zena phobia for a member saying he'll send Obama home to Kenya. He members of the Congressional Black caucus also question the treatment of Omar the split within the Democratic Party forced the leadership to withdraw its initial antisemitism. Resolution and present much broader one. Congresswoman Ilhan Omar voted for and praised the new resolution. She issued a joint statement with fellow Muslim lawmakers Rashida to leave of Michigan. And Andre Carson of Indiana. Saying, quote, we're tremendously proud to be part of a body. That's put forth a condemnation of all forms of bigotry, including anti semitism. Racism and white supremacy. Our nation is having a difficult conversation. And we believe this is great progress. They said they went onto write today historic on many fronts. It's the first time we have voted on a resolution condemning anti Muslim bigotry later in the show. We'll go to Tel Aviv in Washington for response to the controversy. But first, let's turn to Ilhan Omar in her own words, speaking last week at busboys and poets restaurant in Washington DC, while the media has largely focused on a single sentence in her remarks few of her her broader comments, this is part of what she said. It almost as if every single time we say something, regardless of what it is. We say that is supposed to be about foreign policy. Oh engagement are at cosc- about ending oppression. Or the freeing of every human life and wanting dignity. We get to be labeled in something. And that ends the discussion because we end up defending that and nobody ever gets the half. The broader debate of what is happening with policies. For me. I want to talk about I wanna talk about the political influence in this country. That says it is okay for people to push for allegiance to foreign country. I want to ask why is it? Okay. For me. Talk about the influence of the NRA of fossil fuel in the streets or big pharma. And not talk about a powerful lobbying group that is influencing policy. I want to ask the question. I want to ask the question of Why's it? Okay. For you to push for you to put those so many people. I mean, most of us are new, but many members of congress have been there for ever some of them have been there before we were bored. So I know many of them many of them were fighting. We're fighting for people to be freed for people to live in dignity in South Africa. I know many of them fight for people around the world to have dignity to have self determination. So I know I know that they care about these things. But now that you have to Muslims who are saying the group of people that we want to make sure the dignity that you want. Everybody else to have we. We get to be called names. And we get to be labeled as hateful, no way. Wait. What hate looks like we experienced an EPA simple day. I have to talk about that threats. I have called talk about death threats and sometimes. There are cities in my state where the gas stations have written on their bathrooms assassinate ill hunt. Omar. I have people driving around my district looking for my home for my office. Costing me harm. I have people every single day on Fox News and everywhere posting that I am a threat to this country. So I know what fear looks like the mess Jide. The mustard I pray in in Minnesota bombed by two domestic white terrorists. So I know what it feels to be someone who is a faith. That is Phil fide. I know what it means to be someone who is ethnicity. That is Philip guide. I know what it feels to be. A race of a raise right? Like, I am an immigrant. So I don't have historical drama that some of my black sisters and brothers have in this country. But I know I know what it means for people to just see me as a black person and to treat me as less than a human. And so when people say you are bringing hates. I know what their intention is their intention is to make sure that our lights are dimmed that we walk around with our heads bowed that we lower our face and our voice, but we have news for people. You can call us any kind of name you can threaten us any kind of way. Rashida an I are not our selves every single day. We walk in the whole of congress. We have people who have never had the opportunity to walk there walking with us. So we're here we're here to stay and represent the voices of people who have been silenced for many decades and generations, and we're here to fight for the people of our district who want to make sure that there is actual prosperity. Prosperity being guaranteed because there is a direct correlation between that having a clean water. And starting endless wars. It's all about the prophet and who gets benefit of it. There's a direct correlation. There's a correct correlation between corporations that are getting rich. And the fact that we have Sudanese that are shackled with debts. There's a Kirk direct correlation between the White House, and the people who are benefiting from having detention beds that are profitis. So what people are afraid of is not that. There are two books limps in congress. What people are afraid of is that there are two Muslims in congress that have their eyes wide open that have their feet to the ground. That know what they're talking about that are fearless. And that understand that they have the same election certificate as everyone else in congress. Democratic congresswoman Ilhan Omar speaking last week at busboys and poets in Washington DC. She was speaking just after Rashida to leave the other Muslim congresswoman Ilhan, Omar and Rashida to leave or the first two Muslim congresswomen in US history. When we come back, we'll hosted discussion on the debate sparked by Omar's comments will go to Tel Aviv to Washington and New York stay with us. Study. Sunday. On this. Not the minister. In that sort of that. Out. Some store we are the south by NATO, featuring show Jamin sore, this is democracy. Now, I made me Goodman on Thursday, the house of representatives overwhelmingly passed a resolution condemning antisemitism anti-muslim discrimination, white supremacy and other forms of hate the resolution is initially written with seen as a direct rebuke of democratic congressman Berle on Omar for comments about US foreign policy with Israel the vote capita week of intense debate. Among congressional Democrats about anti semitism and US policy on Israel. We're joined now by three guests in Tel Aviv. Get on Levy longtime Isreaeli journalists are columnist member of the newspapers Dettori aboard his latest piece, headlined, keep it up Ilhan, Omar. He's also the author of the punishment of Gaza. Phyllis Bennis is with us and Washington fellow at the institute for policy. Studies served on the national board of Jewish voice for peace her recent piece for in these times, headlined, why false accusations of antisemitism against deal. Omar or so harmful and Remmy cannot see is with us here in New York. A Palestinian American poet and activists the author of the collection of poetry before the next bomb drops rising up from Brooklyn to Palestine, we welcome you all to democracy now, let's go to Tel Aviv. I get on Levy your response to the debate and the final passage of the resolution on Thursday in the house of representatives. It's one before that the house the Swiss antisemitism. It's wonderful that the house condemns antisemitism. And this is and should be condemned. But the context is very suspicious and very troubling. Let me be very Frank with you, a me we have to say the truce the Israeli lobby the Jewish Lobi by far too, strong and too aggressive. It's not good for the Jewish community. It's good for Israel. What is happening now is that some kind of fresh air some kind of new voices emerging from Capitol Hill raising lead GT mate questions about Israel about America's foreign policy towered, Israel, and about the Israeli lobby in the states, those very legitimate questions, and it is more than needed to raise them. But. But these rarely propaganda and the Jewish propaganda in recent years made it as a systematic methods whenever anybody there's to raise questions all to criticize Israel. He is in needed automatically labeled as anti Semite, and then he has to shut his mouth because after this can you see this vicious circle should be broken. And I really hope that great great politicians like MRs Omar, and others will be courageous enough to stand in front, those accusations into say, yes, it is legitimate to criticize Israel. Yes. It is legitimate to race question. And this does not mean that we onto Semites, we are not ready to play this game anymore in which they shut our mouths with those accusations, which in most of the cases are Holo. What kind of a fact and does this debate. Now Ilhan Omar repeated to lead and Andre Carson three Muslim congress members applauded the final resolution saying it's the first time that there was this anti. Basically anti-islamic phobia resolution that was passed by the house of representatives, of course, and dish into the antisemitism issue. They broaden it out. What kind of FEC does this debate have in Israel? And you know, you're just about to have your elections. The Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is just about to be indicted for corruption. Yeah. As you probably know way me that campaign is these only with one question Netanyahu. Yes. So no and many more important questions and crucial question and faith in questions even not being discussed. But it any case MRIs, he'll be also portrayed in Israel as in any other place in the Jewish communities as a as an anti Semite as a dangerous woman as an enemy of peace and enemy of Israel, and the Jewish people, and you know, the propaganda this kind of propaganda is very very efficient. And and we just have I just go to so many images of the my last piece and someone asked me how can a Jew suppose Sasha woman, so unsung team very easily. Very. Very easily because she seems to be courageous. And she seems to say Joe's and it's about time to say the twos. And yes, Amy to ask do we supposed to magically and blindly, they'll patient is it legitimate to criticize the patient may be legitimate to handle Israel as South Africa was handed. Maybe the is is something that we should consider those questions even not legitimate to raise in the United States. And maybe now, this vicious circle may be broken and people will have the courage the guts and the power to ask questions. Yes. He's ever seen question. Even go this is questionable. So the relations with Israel. He's question. But I saw the other. They congressman saying that nobody should question the relations between the United States and Israel, excuse me. Nobody should question the relations between Israel and United. It states here from dinovite claim that those relationship corrupted and bit full peace and bit is for the long run because the United States, let Israel go crazy continue compati-, whatever it wants and gets Solta Matic and blind suppose, getting Livy speaking to us from Tel Aviv Jewish reporter with arts newspaper, the Israeli newspaper and on the editor -ill board there economic you've been tweeting nonstop about this debate unfolding on the floor of the house, a debate amongst Democrats, the more progressive younger Democrats taking on the leadership of the Democratic Party and the house of representatives and clearly having a major effect. What was most significant to you about this week? I think that the the response to the spearing Villanova mar I mean, what were what were they seeking to do? They were seeking to smear. To intimidate and to silence, and they thought that after this week was over that she and others would never speak up. Again. I think that there was an amazing amount of backlash against what if you look at the crux of arguments. You talked about Palsson freedom Justice inequality. She talked about dignity for all people. So when I think you look at the larger situation, the attacks Ilhan, Omar and Marc Lamont hill Angela Davis and Michelle Alexander communities and people are saying enough is enough. We want to have open and honest discourse on this issue. We wanna be able to talk about boycott divestment and sanctions. And so I think that it's not just that. She's speaking about Palestinian dignity. She's putting action to it and saying we not only need to talk about the suffering. The siege. Blockade in military occupation. We have to cut direct lines of complicity with occupation apartheid and Phyllis Bennis in Washington DC, the whole issue what you think which talked about. And what wasn't Amy I'm very glad that at the beginning of the show you played congresswoman. Omar's actual words. So many of the articles so much of the discourse in recent days has not been based at all on what she actually said. It's been based on what we think she meant what it must have been really. Meaning whether it was a dog whistle. Not on what she said. So in fact, the congresswoman is being attacked for anti semitic statements. She never made for for anti Jewish prejudices that she doesn't hold and for a kind of hatred of Jews that she has never expressed. She was being accused of something she never talked about. She never talked about Jews having allegiance to Israel. She talked about the issue of allegiance to Israel by lobby, which of course, includes not only APEC, which is one of the most powerful parts of it. But an organization like Koufi Christians United for Israel, also an incredibly influential component of the pro Israel lobby. This is not a Jewish lobby. It is a pro Israel lobby, and it is increasingly Republican. Publican? It is very right wing and its aim is as as both of my colleagues have said to shut down the debate to dim the light as as congresswoman Omar so poetically put it, but their lights are not going them. Their lights are brighter than ever in the extraordinary thing as both of my predecessors have mentioned. This was a moment when we actually saw the impact in the immediate. Context of not only outside protests. There were massive demonstrations. There were articles being written the small piece that I did in the nation. That included mainly the words of congresswoman Omar was was going viral faster than anything. I think I've ever written because people were were eager for this. But even within the congress what we saw is that the black caucus the progressive caucus, not just sort of the young people. This was partly generational for sure. But it was also political the divide in the Democratic Party over this between the right in the left on the questions of US foreign policy were out there to be seen and the progressives one. This was an amazing thing where we had an entirely different resolution. There's no doubt that this resolution like the earlier one was in response to democratic leadership fears that there was going to be too much debate about this. And it was going to detract from the democratic. Agenda the democracy issues that they want to put on the table. But what we saw was that they actually were forced to listen to other components of the Democratic Party and craft an entirely different resolution that not only didn't name congresswoman, Omar which the first one didn't either, but it was not aimed solely at the question of anti semitism. It was aimed at all the issues of racial and ethnic prejudice that that are systemic in this country. It doesn't change the reality. It doesn't stop black people from being shot by police in the streets. It doesn't change the reality of Islamaphobia that people have to deal with and live with every day. It doesn't prevent the kind of violence. We saw against Jews in Pittsburgh, or in Charlottesville. But what it does do is say that this is a new era that there is a new discourse underway, and that it's no longer going to be possible for the leadership of the Democratic Party or the leadership of congress or any. Else to assume that they can slap somebody on the wrist for something that they didn't say, but that they thought might be interpreted in the wrong way. And then go on is if nothing had happened to many people are watching and is getting said, this is a moment when the question of the the influence of APEC and the influence of Koufi and the influence of the pro Israel lobby in general is being questioned by a whole set of new actors when the New York Times has a headline that says does this show that the influence of that the power they said that the power of APEC is too big and proceeded to write an article that essentially said, yeah, it's too big. I mean, you have the Wall Street Journal tweeting just. A week or two ago. Eight-pack the pro Israel lobby raises more than one hundred million dollars a year, which it spends on lobbying politicians for US aid and sending members of congress to Israel. This isn't Ilhan Omar tweeting this this is Wall Street Journal. We also should note that there have been someone Twitter very conveniently put together a list of all the times that the New York Times, the Wall Street Journal, the Chicago Tribune and the Washington Post have used this term of influence of. On on of Israel of pro Israel, sentiments attributed to congress attributed to the White House, and this notion that somehow only an anti Semite would use this language. It turns out just isn't true that allegiance is a word that all these newspapers routinely use. So it goes directly to this point that ill him, Omar was being targeted not so much for what she said. But for who she was while saying it that she is a black African immigrant that she is a Cemalli refugee that. She is a proud Muslim woman who wears her job in the in the halls of congress when she said these things that what was what was seen as unacceptable because that can be said by Jewish critics Christian critics, but if a Muslim critic says it it's taken as a whole different kind of response. And I think that that's what we have to be very conscious of right now when we have this new extraordinarily broad and diverse. Crew of progressives in congress. This isn't only about identity, it's not just because somebody happens to be Muslim or happen to be Jewish or happens to be young or happens to be black. It's because we have a bunch of progressives who are young and Jewish and Muslim and black and Latino and whatever that is changing not just the demographics. But the politics of how this congress is operating commencement, huge shift that Congressional Black caucus also. Came out in support of Ilhan, Omar I want to ask about this generational shift Remmy and also the progressive Jewish Palestinian alliance in this country. Not to mention. Leading African American intellectual and activists intellectuals and activists like Marc Lamont hill. Angela davis. Michelle Alexander coming out in support of Palestinian rights, extremely strongly and then being targeted by the very groups that that are very active right now, you're seeing an incredible seachange. If you look at black Palsson and solidarity native Palestinian Authority, youth delegation. Just went over to Palestine the dream defenders delegations, Marc Lamont hill was on one of them. You look at the movement for black lives endorsing divestment as a way to complicity from Israel occupation apartheid. So I think that it's happening in the halls of congress slowly, but surely, but it's happening on the ground. You have more than two hundred students for Justice in Palestine chapters in the US and Canada, you have dozens of Jewish voice for peace chapters and thousands of members across the country when you look at students for Justice in Palestine chapter you have a black black. Folks, Latin x folks queer folks Jewish folks Palestinians, Arabs, Muslims, antiwar socialist all across the spectrum. So I think that you're looking at Palestine moving into a space where it's becoming a progressive issue. Not in the same way as maybe Medicare for all our fight for fifteen but the way that people are talking about Yemen. The way that people are talking about the US Mexico border, anti-black racism, and the prison industrial complex people are saying are you on the side of freedom. Or you're on the side of apartheid are you for liberty for all? Or are you looking to marginalize people even further? So I think that that's the question that's really coming up. And that's what's scaring, not just bipartisan establishment, Democrats and Republicans in congress, but the eight packs and stand with us in AD, L and other groups that are saying look black and Brown communities left. Us communities are coming together to say enough is enough boycott divestment. Sanctions the talking about the right of return for Palestinian refugees, ending the siege on Gaza after two hundred people were executed on fr. Protests over an eleven month period or looking at the fact that Israel controls the air, the border the seed imports taxes at tariffs the popular population registry and every facet of life. So even as we talked about Ilhan Omar this week. There was a fifteen year old Palestinian boy that was executed in Gaza. There was a Palestinian village inside of the state of Israel that was demolished for the hundred forty forty first time there was home demolitions in the West Bank. So it's about what's being done to the Palestinian people. What side are you standing on? And how can communities come together to battle all forms of injustice in it also comes out at the time of the UN? Human Rights Council were pork on what's happening in Gaza and alleging possible war crimes and get lady. I was wondering if you can talk about the response to this report in Israel. The worst thing is that there was no response because it was almost not on the table. I mean is that head created itself? Shields in which any criticism is immediately. They'll legitimized and immediately, and they made it he labeled as anti semitic because also this committees disembark and anti-israeli, and nobody would even listen to them. So this committee was another example of how is right lives in this denial with by the way, the calibration of Israeli media who hardly heads reported about eight. I mean, there were some small stories, but nobody really took it too. Seriously. Why do we know that for the last months over two hundred people almost all of them unarmed where killed in vain? Were killed for nothing and nothing can touch any mode as very society because it's so brainwashed by now NET became so pathetic. And so in different to the life of Palestinians. Really, I think there is nothing cheaper Israel, then Palestinian lives. You see they have today. Nobody cares. I just wrote one week ago a horrible story about soldiers beating up it blinds men in his beds. I was sure that at least this. I mean here you claim anything. He's blind. He's very ill. He lies in the bed. It's folk night in the morning. They come into his house by fulls and start to beat him in his bed. Do sing that anybody reacted to eat. This anybody cared about heat. No is closed all the. Curtains, and we are leaving our bubble social that we are always right. And the whole world is always room that anybody who there's to say anything about is. When is an anti Semite. And I must tell you till now it was quite efficient because the fact is that there is still great fear. Both in you county and even in Europe to criticize his right? They're still great fear to ask major question like until when will this of your patient continue until Israel will decide to put an end to it and the world will stand and located in indifference and do nothing is the word ready for another part. I'd state in two thousand nineteen so all those questions are hardly discussed here in Israel. We leave the question so Fe didn't attorney our get free meals. Didn't didn't he get free meals. That's more or less. The only question which is raised here. I wanted to play a clipper sour Hussein a member of the U N commission that wrote the UN report describing how Israeli forces targeted civilians and journalists in Gaza, we're seeing have intentionally shot. Children live intentionally shot people disabilities. They've intentionally short journalists. Knowing them to be children people with disabilities. Journalists at some of the not all of the children of children perhaps. But many of them are that was Sara Hussain this hardly got any attention. Not only in Israel, proper fella spannis. But of course, here in the United States. Amidst this whole discussion about hate, you know, this is one of the key points that we have to carry so much further. This was an opening what happened this week was an opening. It was opening a curtain that has blocked any discussion of this issue. But getting into this issue is now crucial. The question of how the United States has consistent. Protected Israel in the United Nations. So that not Israel has government and no Israeli official political or military can ever be held accountable in the international court of Justice sorry in the international criminal court for potential war-crimes. We don't hear the questions about US complicity. I ransom numbers last night. The US is still sending three point eight billion dollars every year to the Israeli military unquestioned about what they do with it that money if it was kept at home. I mean, we say three point eight billion. Nobody knows what that means. We could say gazillion, and it would mean the same thing, but that's real money in the real world and that same amount of money for one year could pay instead for sixty eight thousand four hundred new infrastructure jobs. Good union jobs to rebuild this country. It could pay for three hundred sixty seven thousand eight hundred veterans getting healthcare or it could pay for four hundred twenty six thousand four hundred fifty five kids to get into head start and get a real education. Starting at a young age. What's going to make us safer in this country? I want to care only about this country. Look at those numbers. I want to end with Ramayana say I've seen almost no Palestinian or Muslim. Comment in the mainstream media on television around this debate. Does the result of this whole Fuhrer this week and the final resolution give you hope it does. Because I do think that the Palestinian question is being pushed back to the forefront. There are an incredible amount of Palestinian voices, many of whom who've been on democracy now, I think that if you look at congress, what would actually created. That was the grassroots organizing was the political action on the ground was the campus organizing was the response to the repression that has come from years before. So I think going forward you're witnessing seachange. You're seeing people come together in a way that they haven't before. And if you look at Ilhan Omar's comments, she speaking, very, frankly and unapologetically, I mean, she was back on Twitter last night with some amazing tweets calling out John McCain. So I think that we're gonna move forward. I think that his his daughter as well. Yeah. I think that the Palestinian voice is getting stronger within the United sta-. It's being seen more within that kind of progressive round. And I actually think that Palestinian rights issues are coming back to the forefront the right of return for Palestinian refugees, ending the siege on Gaza building with other communities in different ways on campuses and local communities, and now in the halls of con-, thank you very much for being with us Knesset also get in Levy as our columnist in Tel Aviv and Philip Spanish fellow at the institute for policy. Studies serves on the national board of Jewish voice for peace. This is democracy. Now when we come back the loss children's archive stay with us. See? Hi. Not dale. The Honda pool. Are you? The. And you see. Gene. By inning lion. The system on Crecy. Now, I'm Amy Goodman. We end today show with the ongoing crisis at the border homeland security secretary Kirsten Nelson defended President Trump's declaration of national emergency at the southern border Wednesday telling lawmakers in an explosive hearing that officials are on track to detain more than nine hundred thousand migrants at the US Mexico border, this you Nielsen pushback against widespread reports, the Trump administration routinely denies migrants chance to apply for asylum in the US claiming no one would be turned away at the US port of entry. This isn't a net. Buyer gone of the house homeland security committee speaking at the hearing either lying to this committee, or you don't know what's happening at the border when she was asked how many children main detained at the border. Nielsen replied cheat didn't have the number handy. And she denied that migrant prisoners are being held in cages. This is US homeland security committee chair Bennie Thompson questioning Nielsen. Finding your new we still putting children and cages to my knowledge. Never purposely put a child in a cage. Purposely. Whatever are we putting children in cages as of today? Children are processed at the border facility stations that you've been at some of up, please. I just want you to admit that the cages exist, sir. They're not cages of areas of the border facility dot are carved out for the safety and protection of those who remain there while they're being processed. Our next guest has seen firsthand what our immigration system does to children come to this country seeking asylum after working as volunteer interpreter for children in New York immigration court. Larry Lewis Sally wrote a celebrated nonfiction book informed by her experience. Title. Tell me how it ends an essay and forty questions she's now out with her fifth book her first novel written English, titled lost children archive. Larry Lewis Sally. Welcome back to democracy. Now, it's great to have you with us and to be here on International Women's Day with you the significance. Why you wrote lost children archive? Well, I started. Writing on on a road trip down to Arizona from from New York. And I was trying to write a another completely different novel back then about growing up in post apartheid, South Africa. But the in Mexico, I was born in Mexico, but grew up in several countries among them, South Africa. Right. I arrived in South Africa. Right when when Mandela became president. So it was a very peculiar and beautiful time. I've been trying to write another for years about that. Which I haven't yet written really? And I was trying to ride it during this trip across the US. But the reality in front of me started basically caving in on me. And I started making notes it was the summer of two thousand fourteen exactly when what we can now. Call the ongoing diaspora of central Americans fleeing circumstances of unspeakable violence in their countries begun, even though they're rivals begun before to fourteen but that was a year of the surge. So I started documenting not only tr. Traveling across the US in that moment and landscapes many times lands of abandonment that I was I was seeing. But also, of course, the way that the crisis was being. Recounted and reported on in different states, local newspapers radio, and so this is about immigration, but more than that, it's a novel about how to bear witness, and how to tell the story of what I think is going to be one of the most important discussions in the twenty th century, which is global global diaspora. Why did you call it lost children archive? The title, unfortunately, has somehow gained a new meaning now right as but that is also the power in the city of language when I I thought of that title. It was it was it was my working title in two thousand fourteen and I was thinking about children who had lost the the right to childhood and children who who were not being seen or heard. I was not thinking about children like children. We think of now as children who have been lost by this administration's separation policy and. Having having lost track of who whose kid is who's parent and are there for lost within the loop of of this system? Unfortunately, now this title also somehow references at what would we think of now as as children, you write that lost children archive is more questioning of how and where we should stand in order to document political violence, right? I started writing this novel and at the same time as I was writing it. I was working as volunteers screener and translator in the court of immigration here in New York listening to children's testimonies and stories in in an attempt to among many other volunteers, by the way in an attempt to. Get their stories clear and then find a lawyer that might represent them and help them against the deportation. Order. This was right after the priority. Duct was created by the Obama administration that basically served as a way to expedite removals of undocumented unaccompanied children. And so, of course, I started using the novel as a kind of depository or vessel of my own political frustration rage sadness confusion, and I also started really ruining the novel stuffing with all of that. While also not really doing Justice to the issue. I was trying to threat it into fictional narrative. And so I stopped writing together I wrote tummy how it ends which book that we've spoken about here before which is a much more straightforward take kind of x Ray of the American immigration system. And also an x Ray of this particular diaspora involving children and once I wrote that that book I was able to return. Turn to the novel and think of it as as a space that was more multi layered and less stuffed more porous that reflects on how where we should stand to bear witness and not so much. It's not so much hammer political hammer as it is space of reflection about our own our own space of an NCA shin. When we think about political violence. You've written about your time as an interpreter saying that children's stories are we shuffled stuttered away shattered beyond the repair of narrative. Order the problem with trying to tell their stories that has no beginning. No middle and no end. So this book is a kind of meditation on storytelling, you have said explained. Well, it is it's a it's a meditation on the politics of the documentary form first of all, right? About how where the limits of our our right to tell another person's story are. Always confusing confusing limit ride and it also meditation on how we hand down stories to the next generation accounts of the world narratives around the world, and how that generation wreath reds them recompose them. And then also give them back to us. No. So there's a family that that that that that that occupies the first half of the novel or more than the first half really that's traveling down towards the border from from New York, and the children are listening to their parents talk about the ditch here Coa patches in the case of their father, the mother's talking all the time about how how to document the crisis at the border and listening to the news kids start confusing blue coats with border patrol answered reenacting kind of confused history. That's also very telling of of the of the way that history repeats itself in this country. Right. The way that it consistently marginalize those. Who had sees as as a lesser citizens or lesser humans? Right. And it's black and Brown population. Fundamentally we're going to do part to this discussion and posted online to proce- now dot org. The Leiria Lewis Sally award winning Mexican American writer her latest book lost children archive, which just long listed for the two thousand nineteen women's prize for fiction. Thanks so much for being with us. Happy International Women's Day. I'll be speaking March fifteenth next Friday at east high school in Denver, Colorado, check our website at democracy. Now, I mainly Goodman's. Thanks so much for joining us.
Democracy Now! 2019-03-01 Friday
"Brown. Pacifica. This is democracy. Now does call for people that clever to come out as folks this morning on democracy now to pack the courtroom at twelve thirty pm today is day to prove that Easter is on our side and would be judge, but our conduct against a demagogue a fascist regime last week immigrant rights activists Patricia Okuma Klein the southwest cay building in Austin, Texas to protest the company jailing immigrant children. Now, judge in New York will decide whether to revoke her bail from per second arrest when she climbed the statue of liberty on July fourth to protest, President Trump zero tolerance policy, then we speak with three Kline. Activists ages sixteen twelve and ten who confronted California Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein demanding. She takes bold action on climate change and support the green new deal. We responded by saying that really Senator Feinstein. It's too pricey to not enact the green new deal and the longer that we wait, the more costly and devastating the consequences of this climate crisis will be finally we speak with author. Shoshana Zubov about the age of surveillance capitalism. The fight for human future at the new frontier of power surveillance capitalism promises to transform twenty per century society in ways that are profoundly anti human and anti-democratic and all for the sake of surveillance revenues all that more coming up. Welcome to democracy now democracy now dot org. The warring piece report I made me Goodman, a United Nations inquiry found Thursday rarely forces may have committed war crimes and crimes against humanity by targeting unarmed protesters and Gaza with lethal force including children journalists and the disabled the report by the UN Human Rights Council looked at Israel's bloody response to weekly great March of return demonstrations launched by Palestinians in Gaza, nearly a year ago targeting Israel's heavily militarized separation barrier. The report found Isreaeli forces killed one hundred eighty nine Palestinians almost all of them with live ammunition. This is Sara Hussain member of the UN independent commission that led the investigation using have intentionally showed tune dron they've intensely. Short people disabilities leaving ten she should Jenny. Liz knowing them to be children people with disabilities in journalists at some of the not all of the children visibly children. Perhaps. But many of them are as Commissioner moranga GIS said the journalists were all marked with press fest that we investigators and the people disabilities said a person a double amputee in a real share person using crutches or visibly that and they're being shot at by snipers who also have spot is available with them who have high Jerry high level technology vailable to see who's out there in the field. Then you UN report calls on states to arrest quote persons alleged to have committed or who order to committed the international crimes unquote or to seek their extradition. Israel's acting foreign minister dismissed the report as theater of the absurd. Meanwhile, Israel's attorney general Thursday said he will indict Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on charges of bribery fraud, and breach of trust Netanyahu's accused of trading political. Favors for positive press coverage and separately for hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of luxury goods, including jewelry cigars and champagne the charges. Come just weeks before an April ninth election that will see Netanyahu try to hold together his fragile ruling coalition. The New York Times reports President Trump ordered then chief of staff General John Kelly to grant his son in law and senior adviser Jared Kushner, a top secret security clearance last year over the objections of intelligence officials the time cited four people briefed on the matter who say Trump sought to overrule the judgment of the CIA and then White House counsel. Don, Mcgann, who argued Kushner should not have been granted access to top secret documents Kushner failed to report over one hundred foreign contacts on his initial application for clearance, which was denied by the F B I after a background check into his financial history and contacts with foreign invest. There's that took more than a year Kushner later revised us -application three times it was alternately granted permanent security clearance. Last May President Trump has repeatedly denied intervening in his son in law's behalf including in this Oval Office interview in January with Maggie Haberman of the New York Times. To lease of your sign loss. Hillary. Two. The I don't think I have the thirty to do that. I'm not sure. But I I I wouldn't I wouldn't do it. Jarrett's good. I was I was never involved with the security Jared, Kushner's wife and President Trump's daughter and senior adviser Ivanka Trump also denied President Trump played a role in winning a security clearance for Kushner, she was speaking with ABC's Abby Huntsman there were anonymous leaks about there being issues, but the president had no involvement pertaining to Mike clearance or my husband's Clarence on Thursday. White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders responded to the New York Times reports saying we don't comment on security clearances and Afganistan Taleban fighters. Attacked major army base in Helmand province Friday with initial reports indicating as many as twenty Afghan soldiers killed the violence came as the Trump administration is floating a peace plan that would see the US withdraw all its troops from Afghanistan within three to five years while shifting the risk. Ability for training, Afghan forces to US allies in Europe and on stralia. US officials are set to resume peace talks with the Taliban this weekend and cutters capital Doha in Somalia ficials say at least fifteen people were killed Thursday. After two separate suicide car bombers targeted a pair of hotels in the capital. Mogadishu one of the attacks set off an hours-long gunfight with Somali soldiers battling shebab fighters in building Jason to one of the hotels. They claimed responsibility for attacking North Korea's contradicted. President Trump's explanation of why talks in Hanoi between President Trump and North Korean leader. Kim Jong-Un came to an abrupt end Thursday. Speaking to reporters foreign minister rejoin co said North Korea asked for only partial sanctions relief in exchange for dismantling its main nuclear complex in young men. Our proposal was that we will permanently dismantle all of our nuclear material production sites, including Tony Tonio in uranium facilities in the young beyond area as joint work by engineers from both countries in the presence of experts from the United States if the US lifts the sanctions that affect people's livelihood. This statement contradicts President Trump's claim that he walked away from the talks after North Korea demanded total relief from sanctions and exchange for disarming the young end facility back in the United States. Immigrant rights groups are warning that your Matic increase in the number of infants being held in Texas immigrant attention facility with at least nine babies currently in ice custody and it complaint filed with the department of homeland security Thursday advocates say babies held in the south Texas family residential center in Dili have shown signs of illness, weight loss and emotional distress. While they've been detained with their mothers. At least one of the infants has been held for more than twenty. Days the legal limit for detaining children under the florist agreement a low the Trump administration seeking to change on Capitol Hill. House lawmakers approved a Bill Thursday to expand background checks for firearms purchases from three to ten days. The Bill would close what's been dubbed the Charleston loophole under which white supremacy Dylann roof was able to purchase a gun used to massacre nine worshippers at the Emmanuel AME church in Charleston, South Carolina. Thursday's vote followed another gun control Bill approved Wednesday to strengthen federal background checks that Bill came under fire from immigrant rights groups after some Democrats defected and helped approve a last minute amendment offered by Republicans that would require ice that's immigration customs enforcement officials be notified anytime, an undocumented immigrant tries to buy a gun. Both house spills facing up hill battle in the Republican controlled Senate. And the White House has signalled it would veto the measures. The house intelligence committee said Thursday of plans to. Interview Trump organization chief financial officer, Alan we so Burg following the explosive testimony of President Trump's former personal attorney Michael Cohen on Capitol Hill this week Cohen will return to Capitol Hill later this month alongside Russian born real estate developer Felix Sater to testify about their involvement in the Trump Tower Moscow project, Sade or will testify publicly before the house intelligence committee on March fourteenth cone is expected to testify on March. Sixth Virginia's first lady Pam north them has apologized after she handed out cotton to African American students touting the governor touring the governor's mansion and ask them to imagine being enslaved cotton picker the incident came as governor Ralph Northam democrat continues to resist mounting calls from within his own party to step down. After claims he posed for racist photo scene in his nineteen Eighty-four medical school year. Book page depicting a man wearing black face next to a man wearing a Ku Klux Klan outfit north has denied that he is in the photo. But he did admit to wearing black face on another occasion that same year and apologized after the latest enter after the latest incident with his wife Li dosier Walker. The mother of one of the students handed cotton by first lady Pam north said in a statement, quote, the governor and MRs north have asked the residents of the Commonwealth to forgive them for the racially insensitive past actions, but the actions of MRs north them just last week. Do not lead me to believe that this governor's office has taken seriously the harm and hurt they've caused African Americans in Virginia or that they're deserving of our forgiveness, unquote. The Republican controlled Senate voted Thursday to confirm former coal industry lobbyists. Andrew Wheeler as administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, Thursdays. Fifty two to forty seven vote was mostly along party lines. With only one Republican Susan Collins of Maine defecting Wheeler has served as acting administrator since July after his predecessor Scott Pruitt step down. Amidst a series of ethics scandals Washington state's democratic governor Jay Inslee announced today. He's running for president in twenty twenty in a video posted to YouTube Inslee said he would make the issue of battling climate change his top priority. To feel the sting of climate change. They were the last that can do something about it. We went to the move in creditig -nology change the world. Our country's next mission. Must be to rise up to the most urgent challenge of our time to feeding climate change. Governor Inslee will formally announce his candidacy today at a solar panel company in Seattle in Antwerp Belgium, thousands of students walked out of classes Thursday in a school strike demanding political action to combat catastrophic climate change similar protests have swept cities across Europe. And around the world in recent weeks strikes were begun by sixteen year old Swedish climate activists. That's a tune, vid. Who address the Antwerp crowd Thursday? Way too long the politicians of the people in power have gotten away with not doing anything to fight the crisis. We will make sure that they will not get away with it anymore wheel striking because we have done our homework, and they have knocked to see our full hour with Greta soon when we met her at the UN climate summit in Poland. Go to democracy now dot org, and those are some of the headlines, this is democracy. Now democracy now dot org. The Warren peach report, I'm Amy Goodman. Immigrant rights activists. Patricia. Oh, CU who made national headlines last year after she scaled the statue of liberty to protest family separations climbed atop southwest cay building last week to protest the company which operates detention centers for migrant children today is sounds of children remain separated from their parents judge will decide whether to revoke komo's bail from her first arrest. Because of her activism in Texas last week Okuma was with the group rise and resist on July fourth last year as they dropped a banner from the statue of liberty that read abolish ice. She broke away from the group and climbed all the way to lady Liberty's left foot. Where she continued to protest and refused to leave until she was arrested. She spoke to reporters after she came down. Our I needed that. I can't so much about. One day. Go we go. Hi. And I went ties I called. Patricia Kumo has since pleaded not guilty to trespassing interference. With government agency functions in disorderly conduct or sentencing scheduled for March nineteenth. But prosecutors claim her latest protest this past week and Austin Texas was violation of the terms of her bond, and she's been ordered back to court today. We're her bell could be revoked and she could be immediately. Joe just hours before she presents herself at the courthouse. Immigrant rights activists Patricia Kumo joins us now in our New York studio. Welcome democracy, now climber. I am psyched to be wet. He is sitting next to you. I watch your show that dumb and I'm a fan big fan. So tell us about what you did last week in Austin Texas last week. Let's not forget was Valentine. And I was planning ahead of time list. Three three two two to three weeks of action. I targeted see once shes. He's a billionaire who's making money off of this detention center. He makes about seven hundred fifty two seven hundred seventy dollars per day per child at his detention centers, obviously his interest is in making money and not hosting migrant children as his death one is to believe. So I wanted to deliver the polls cost that my friends. Support us have written down to these children who are in cages, and I went and deliver them we had a gutter in El Paso. Joel call glass box who donated a space for us. And I went there for ten day journey staying at at Postle, I went to Tonio in which Turney detention to Clinton's facility is Glenn zeal action with the coalition that was with me is to remember what happened on that site. And to also decide there's another side that just twenty miles away where I was able to clamp offense while the coupe was cheering and calling the children and telling them how much we love them and wishing them happy Valentine will on the outside. That's how do activism I- clump things. It's inmate in me and Kline who inspired you found a was an Elon pilot for the president of my country. Denis Sassou Nguesso so to Congo. I'm from the Republic of Congo. He was flying. Residents all over the country, and I was inspired by his litter ship. So we were healthy, and we live in this environment close to the airport where I got the clam a lot the facility the buildings there. It sounds like you've also gotten some inspiration from current and past first ladies, can you describe what you're wearing what I'm wearing is a dress. It's green. And this is a really care. Why won't you? I would just the first August third when I went to one of my hearings, and I spoke in front of the press the dress will in viral. The media was reporting toiling first lady Melania Trump for heath jacket that she was on her way to a detention center. I think she is cold and calculated she does not care about migrant children. And I'm here to say we do care hashtag, we do care because her shirt her jacket that she wore said, I really don't care. Care that my actions shows that are really really care. I don't have a non to five job. I'm afoot them activists. And when you climb the statue of liberty for which you might now be put in jail today because of your violation of the bond conditions by climbing southwest cay. You said you were inspired by Michelle Obama. I was his spy about Michelle Obama. I think she was wanting to the campaign trail to hold on deal to democracy to values and traditions. Our culture and tradition is a stick our democracies stick I come from a place where we hold dearly our values. It's just very important. We don't compromise this things. So when you climb to start your liberty. Is it true? You talked about what she had said. When they go low we go find. Yes, I've I've felt like I could gun higher. So I I went as high as cooled when they go low I went high, and I went as high as it could what is your message to separate children. The message is that children. Do not have a sense of time. God gave them a sense of a dentist by smelling. The. Parents. Conniving modest milk. So when we reap them tend to age children from nursing mothers, all the father. We brick this spirit, so psychologically, we creating a damage to meet these concentration camps. So can you talk about what's happening today? And why you risked your freedom to climb the southwest Keith facility. Now, the judge calling you back in. I don't think that I risked my freedom. Because a March nineteen consenting nobody knows what's really going to happen. We don't know if the judge is going to send me to Jeff for eighteen months. What about today today facing prison and costs ration-, and it is what it is the way I look at it is was inspired by God to act is courageous that many people dream of doing our children are watching us when we caught human bins aliens? Im- illegals, we setting a bad. Price. It's a rhetoric that we need to stop because that's all feel mongering. What's happening today is also fear mongering? I am being intimidated to stop actions. So you're called into court today at twelve thirty calling to court today to a tool clock. And I'm asking my friend is supposed to communist twelve thirty. And this is in court in Manhattan court today five hundred post rate, and I think you forgive me the platform to talk Obama message, but the children in cages, and this is a perfect opportunity to continue to work. Well, but your show Kumo. I wanna thank you very much for being with us. Immigrant rights activists facing possible prison time for scaling the statue of liberty on July fourth last year to protest President Trump zero tolerance family separation policy. She'll find out today for bail is being revoked we'll have to go to prison ahead of time. Head of her March nineteenth sentencing for scaling. Southwest kief facility in Austin, Texas, southwest key known for holding immigrant children, this is democracy. Now when we come back we'll hear from children who confronted Democratic Senator Dianne Feinstein demanding. She support the green new deal. Stay with us. Elevator operate Esperanza Spalding. This is democracy. Now, I'm Amy Goodman. We're the ones affected. Those are the words of youth climate activists who confronted California Senator Dianne Feinstein last week, and San Francisco demanding she signed onto the green new deal and video of the interaction that has since been seen across the country Feinstein dismissed the children some as young as seven years old asking her to take bold action on climate change. Trying to ask you to vote. Yes. On the green new. I'll tell you what we have our own green, noon de scientists have said that we have twelve years to turn this around. Well, it's turned around ten years what we can do. At the faces of the people who are going to be living with. Flynn people by the people and knowing what's interesting about this group is I've been doing this thirty years. I know what I'm doing you come in here. And you say it has to be my way or the highway. I don't respond to that. I've gotten elected I just ran. I was elected by almost a million vote for -ality. And I know what I'm doing. So maybe people should listen a little bit. I hear what you're saying. But we're the people who voted you. You're supposed to listen to us. That's here. Ecksteen vote for. Something. To be the one impacted. I have seven grandchildren. I understand it. Very well, the cost of not taking this action is far higher than the cost of what the green new deal will be and there I normally popularity for this Bill around the whole country here asking you to. This for us and for your grandchildren get enough. I'm trying to do the best. I can which was to write a responsible resolution plan. The full formative action is not going to be what we need. We will you know, better than I do think one day you should run for the Senate to do it. Meantime, that time by just prop one. That's Dianne Feinstein the Senator from California being confronted by teens and preteens about her position on climate change yesterday. I spoke with three of the climate activists age sixteen twelve and ten who confronted Senator Feinstein began by speaking with chicag-, a sixteen year old junior at west high school and Oakland. She's an activist with youth versus apocalypse. I asked her why she went to Senator Feinstein's office really there to ask her to vote. Yes. On the green new deal. And while we were there. She said things like it's not gonna pass in the Senate. It's too pricey. And we were spotted by saying that really Senator Feinstein it's too pricey to not enact the green new deal and the longer that we wait the more costly in devastating the consequences of this climate crisis will be and that frankly we under. Stand that the green new deal may not pass in Senate right now because we know that the Republicans hold the majority, but that it's important that our politicians take a stand and say that they are in solidarity with us, and that the understand the weight of this climate crisis and that so that we can start to build the momentum for when we do hold the majority and Senate and it'll pass right away. And we can really take needed action. And Senator Feinstein has been in the Senate for over a quarter of a century, your answer to her when she responded to all of you in her office, saying she has a lot more experience than you do that. She knows what she's doing when she introduces resolution or a Bill. She knows how to get what gets passed and what doesn't while? I have a lot of respect for her and of all the work that she's done. I think there's always change to be made. There's always room for improvement and just because she has more exp- life. Experience than me doesn't mean anything because I am the one who is experiencing most directly the effects of this climate crisis. I'm the one who has to miss school because of smoke days. I'm the one who has to worry about flash floods and mudslides and fires. I'm the one who was at the forefront those experiences. So I should be the one who is telling her what needs to be done to be changed for that to be changed issue. What got you so interested in this issue in the issue of climate change? Well is for two reasons one because we're really seeing the impacts of the climate crisis right now, we have it's raining a lot in California right now. And usually that would be a really good thing because of the drought that was. Made extremely more severe by climate change. But now we're scared about the rain because there can be floods and there can be mudslides because of the fires that just happened that is also because of the climate crisis. We've had to miss school because of smoke days that didn't happen ten twenty thirty years ago. So that's impacting right now. And the second reason is because I really think that climate change is a intersectional issue and that especially when dealing with the green new deal. It encompasses so many issues economic Justice, racial Justice, women's rights, so many things and through fighting for climate Justice. I can also fight for all of the other justices that I'm super passionate about so unknown day after the weekend, you held a news conference with other young people outside the offices of Senator Feinstein, I wanna play a clip from that. We feel is to crises it is to pricey to not. We wait to take action the more costly and devastating impacts of this crisis will be well, that's Chak Clark holding a news conference outside Senator Feinstein's office last Monday Asia. Can you talk about why you went back to Senator Feinstein's offices? What had shaped proposed to you all on Friday after she said, she did not support the green new deal. She presented us with her own resolution that she thought would pass the Senate that was really a disappointment. It was a watered-down version of the greenie deal. It didn't talk about offshore drilling or fracking, which is something that we that is a huge issue in California. It didn't address green jobs in transportation. And it didn't it just wasn't. Oh, it didn't align with science. We have twelve years and her plan gave us until twenty fifty if we wait until twenty fifty to make change then our earth is going to die. We will quite literally have an apocalypse like it says on my shirt, and so we were calling for her to both drop that resolution and to vote. Yes. On the green deal because that is the only plan right now that aligns with Justice, and that aligns with science, what is the green new deal mean to you. The green new deal is a revolutionary way to fix a lot of the issues that we're seeing in our country right now, both the climate crisis that isn't only in our country, but is global and to address the economic struggles our facing right now, we don't have enough jobs for people, especially jobs that adequately can sustain them that can give them living wages that can give them benefits to provide for their families. And we're seeing a lot of racial inequality and the green new deal really brings all of those justices to light and helps to solve those issues that we're seeing our country issue. Can you tell us about yourself? How you got so interested in climate change? And what you plan to do. I started getting involved with climate Justice actually with a similar interaction with a developer. Phil tagami. Emme who's trying to build a coal terminal through Oakland. And I was with some of the folks who are in youth versus apocalypse right now. And we went to his office to ask him to not build a coal terminal because it's going to kill us. And it was a similar kind of confrontation. And what do you want to be? You know, I don't really know. I had dreams of becoming a surgeon. But I think I could also be a super amazing politician and community organizer. I really wanna find a way to encompass all the things that I love doing finally Asia. You're a junior at west high school, and Oakland they Oakland teachers are on strike. Can you talk about what that means for you? So you're not going to school today. Yeah. No. Well, I I still take some college classes that have to go to but I don't go to school. I don't go to my like high school, and what do you think of your teachers being on strike? I fully stand in solidarity with them. I think that the fight is really about them. But intern it's about the young people because if they're not getting paid adequately than we can't have good teachers who are teaching us what we need to learn and creating a future, and I think. It all goes back to this idea that we don't have enough money to be able to fund our future. And so I'm in complete solidarity with them. Each Clark is a sixteen year old junior at met west high school in Oakland where the teachers have been on strike for the past week Asia is an activist with youth versus apocalypse, we turn out to to more of the youth climate activists who confronted Senator Dianne Feinstein last week in her office twelve year old Rio and his ten year old sister Magdalena are with earth guardian San Francisco Bay area crew, I began by asking Magdalena about her reaction to how Senator Feinstein address their call to support the green new deal. Well, first of all I wanna say that I am really thankful and grateful that she let us in. And we got to actually have a C and talk. But I think that she could have been a little more spec. Full and how she communicated with us. But it's not about clips more about getting green new deal and having Ashley place to live because I saw sign it said, though is no plan b and I totally agree with that. Because this have things that we don't think are the plans. It's have that we need to preserve protect like oceans on getting warmed the polar ice caps. That are getting melted animals that are getting killed and endangered that we need to save. I want to go to the clip of you're confronting Senator Feinstein, this is that clip. Trying to ask you to vote. Yes. On the green new. Okay. I'll tell you what we have our own green new deal. People by the people and. Interesting about this group. I've been doing this thirty years. I know what I'm doing you come in here. And you say it has to be my way or the highway. I don't respond to that. That's Senator Feinstein real and Magdalena you were very vocal. They're so Rio there you were saying why don't you support the green new deal? And Senator Feinstein says she has a lot more experience than you. Do. What's your response? Well, I just think that we're the ones that are going to be having to live with it. And what the world is going to be likened ten years twelve years. We're going to have to live with it. So saying that we don't have experience. Yes. We don't have experience. But we have the will because this is going to be our future. Why do you think the green new deal is so important RIA? Well, I feel like ever since I was two years old. I have had a love for the ocean marine life. And I'm scared that climate change will take that for me in the world. And I'm scared that is gonna everything's just gonna be messed up. Like everyone's future is just gonna be terrible. And I think that the green new deal is a big step into preserving our future. And that's why I think. It should be thing Rio. Senator Feinstein said she has seven grandchildren. What message do you have for her, grandchildren? Well, I think that they're going to be the ones alongside of us that are going to have to be dealing with houses being flooded and forced fires and national natural disasters. And I think. That I want them to know that they can make a difference. Like what we have done like, I did not expect this. But just shows how powerful our voices are. I'd like to turn to another young person the teenage Swedish climate activist, Greta tune bird, we met her in Poland. She addressed the UN climate summit there in December. And she is leading the school strike movement around the world, she stands outside the Swedish parliament every Friday. This is what she had to say at the UN climate summit, the two thousand eight I will celebrate my seventy fifth birthday. If I have children, maybe they will spend the day with me. Maybe they lost me about you. Maybe they will score you do anything while those still was time to act. You say you love your children above all else. And yet you're stealing their future in front of their very ice. Till you still focusing on. What needs to be done rather than what is politically possible? There's no hope. We can solve the crisis without treating it. As a crisis. We need to keep the fossil fuels in the ground. And we need to focus on accuracy. And this new Sion's within the system also impossible to find the maybe we should change the system itself. So that's sixteen year old Greta tumor. She was fifteen at the time, and she criticizes the leader saying they're acting like children. And so as a child she's saying the real children should lead. Have you ever heard of her Magdalena? Oh, yes. I love. And actually I talked to my teacher about because we have like sometimes women's history night women's history. We have like we can do women. And so I made a note if I could do Hogue I made a call on it and said, and and yeah, I can do. And I just think she's really awesome. That she shows no matter how small you all you can make a difference. And she is I just love and Rio. So I start how was started was I was sort of in depression thinking about how humans have been living on this earth and stuff and I channel my emotions into action and she would grow third. Berg was one of the people that inspired me me. And my sister, my mom watch the video will video of her, and it really inspired me to take action and use my voice. So that's actually how we. Created the bay area earth. Guardians crew to finally what's your next step? You confronted Senator Feinstein. We'll see what happens whether she will alternately support the green new deal. Probably because of what you did. What are you going to do? Now. Well, there's going to be a youth climate youth global climate strike led by youth and mainly school children who will be walking out of schools on March fifteenth. The the website that it's at is called youth climate strike US dot org. And if you're watching than you can go to that page, and if you want you can participate in you can use your voice and so- promoting that idea that's going to be premature next step of action last comment Magdalena. Well, I think our next step of action. Well for me my four step action. I think before this is. Well, I mean now too. But like this is really important to me is getting people to actually believe is climate change. 'cause how will we gonna fight for something that some people don't believe in? And yes, that's a big step for me. I also think like recognizing indigenous people and people who. In the backyard, those king and all that. So I think that is a big step to how we can fix this crisis to knee-roll Magdalena and her twelve year old brother Rio youth climate activists who confronted California Senator Dianne Feinstein and her San Francisco office last week when we come back the age of surveillance capitalism. The fight for a human future at the new frontier of power stay with us. This stone from the sun. The oh. This guy. Sweet. Guys, got me. Tack. Elsewhere. See? Only home I've ever known by the California. Honey, drops this is democracy. Now democracy now dot org. The Warren peach report, I made me Goodman Facebook plan to spy on Android phone users. Internal emails reveal. That's a headline in computer weekly, you give apps personal sensitive information. And then they tell Facebook that's from the Wall Street Journal. Those are just two of the headlines this past week. This comes as a new report in Britain calls Facebook, digital gangsters. We end today show looking at how corporations have created a new kind of marketplace at of our private human experiences. This is the focus of an explosive new book that argues big tech platforms like Facebook, and Google are elephant poachers, and our personal data is ivory tusks. The book is titled the age of surveillance capitalism. The fight for. Human future at the new frontier of power, its author Sheshona Zubov. She writes, quote at its core surveillance capitalism is parasitic and self referential. It revives coal Marx's old image of capitalism as vampire that feeds on labor, but with an unexpected turn instead of labor surveillance capitalism. Feeds on every aspect of every humans experience. Sheshona lubov. Shoeshine Zubov is professor emeritus at Harvard Business School. She joins us now for the rest of the hour. Welcome to democracy now with us. Okay. Let's start at the beginning. Define surveillance capitalism. Surveillance capitalism departs in many ways from the history of of market capitalism. But in a fundamental way, it is continuous with that history. We know that capitalism has evolved by taking things that live outside of the market bringing them. Into the market dynamic transforming them into commodities that can be sold in purchased so famously industrial capitalism claims nature for the market is reborn. As real estate is land that can be sold and purchased. It claims work for the market reborn as labor that can be sold in purchase. So surveillance capitalism continues this tradition, but with that dark twist in our time surveillance capitalism claims private human experience for the market dynamic as a free source of raw material that is translated into behavioral data. These data are then combined with advanced computational abilities to create predictions predictions of what we will do predictions of our behavior predictions of what we will do now soon and later and. And these predictions are then sold to business customers in a new kind of marketplace that trades exclusively in human futures. This was first invented in the context of online targeted advertising, et Google back in two thousand two thousand one in the teeth of financial emergency during the dot com bust, but the same economic logic has now traveled not only from Google to Facebook and throughout the tech sector, but now throughout the normal Konomi into virtually every economic sector so comment on these last few headlines just of the last week. I mean, for example, the report in Britain that Kohl's Facebook digital gangsters well since just about a year ago now we're coming up on the one year anniversary of the Cambridge analytic. Revelations one of the consequences of those revelations is not only that. Own lot of us all around the world have been put on alert that all is not well in the digital realm. That's one thing. But a second thing is that at least in the UK the government has taken this very very seriously. And there's been a parliamentary committee investigating Facebook. This committee was able to get leaked documents secret documents from Facebook that had not been reviewed by the public and just last week. They issued their one hundred eight page report. It's very powerful very damning. And among other things they refer to Facebook as behaving like digital gangsters because they have understood that Facebook has been essentially stealing in other words as I've described illegitimately taking our private human experience for its production processes that create these prediction products, which is what they sell and how they may. Money. The key thing that I want our viewers to now is that surveillance capitalism doesn't stop at Facebook. And right now, it's a hugely positive development that we are looking at Facebook with this kind of scrutiny and perhaps moving to finally regulate this corporation, but that is the beginning at the end of our challenge surveillance capitalism is an economic logic that includes but move far beyond Facebook at this point in time. And so we are going to need the social response that addresses interruption outlaws this new economic logic, not just a single company or not just a couple of companies you write a global architecture of behavior modification threatens human nature in the twenty first century. Explain all right. Well. Once you understand that surveillance capitalism is an economic logic. It is not the same as technology. This is one of the big lies that has been perpetrated that the these methodologies are the only way that digital technology can work that there's an in evidently list propaganda that has been fed to us. So we need to pull these issues apart. We have digital technology, which we believed would be emancipatory empowering democratizing. And it still can be in the last twenty years. It has been overtaken hijacked by an economic logic whose economic imperatives put it on a collision course with democracy, both from below and from above one of the things that surveillance capitalists learned is that the most powerful predictions of human behavior. Come from actually intervening in our behavior. Touching our behavior to nudge to influence to tune to hurt our behavior toward its commercial outcomes. And what this has done is made them take hold of the digital video all of the devices beginning with our phones, our, laptops. But the censors the facial recognition, the smart dishwasher. The smart television, set the smart car, this mart city all of this digital infrastructure now has been taken by surveillance capitalism. As a way to nudge and tune and heard our behavior toward it's guaranteed outcomes. It does this with subliminal cues. It's a highly scientific process. It does this in ways that it brags about are always outside of our awareness. So that we have no right of combat. We cannot resist. We cannot say now, and we cannot exit. So this. Is what I call a global means of behavioral modification where essentially this great digital architecture that we've built in order to be an emancipatory and life life-giving process for us and help us in our lives has now become commandeered by surveillance capitalism. As a means to modify our behavior toward its commercial ends, which is a direct assault on human autonomy. A direct assault on our decision rights, a direct assault on the whole notion of individual sovereignty back in the nineteen seventies. There was a Senate committee that included people like Edward Kennedy and Sam Ervin these folks met for many months, and they decided that behavioral modification was a pernicious action that it was a complete defiance of democratic principles. And they decided that no federal money would fund any kind of program based on behavioral modification in prisons. Schools and hospitals today. The year two thousand nineteen we've just spent the last two decades, whereas democracy slept the private sector under the aegis of surveillance capitalism has been able to command the digital to create a literally ubiquitous means behavioral modification without anybody saying, no. And without most of us, even noticing or understanding what has occurred in talk about hurting. So let's go to herds elephants where you say that tech platforms like Facebook and Google are elephant poachers, and our personal data is ivory tusks. Well, we've been fed a lot of a lot of lies a lot of euphemism. A lot of misdirection. Those are some of the strategies that have allowed surveillance capitalism to succeed. One of them is the notion that, you know, if it's free your the product, right? Everybody's heard that cliche. I confront that head on. Once you understand that we are in the regime of an economic logic not of technology itself. It's like going backwards in like, we're in wonderland now, we go backwards through the looking glass, and we come out in a place called reality where we can start to see clearly, and when we start to see clearly what we see is first of all these services are not free. We think the services are free. But they think that we're free where they're free raw material. We think that we're the product, but they understand that we are not the product. We are simply the free source of raw material like those elephant tusks everything about us. Us what our problems are. What are real needs? Are what I real concerns are everything about us is ignorant. They have no interest in us. It doesn't matter. If we are happy or sad. It doesn't matter for doing well or poorly. It only matters that we do these things in ways that they can scrape the experience and turn it into data. There are a few other interesting lies here, we think were searching Google Google's actually searching us. We think that these companies have privacy policies. Those pilots. Pop policies are actually surveillance policies. We're told that if we have nothing to hide than we have nothing to fear. The fact is what they don't tell us, and what we are forgetting that. If you have nothing to hide then you are nothing because everything about us that makes us. Us our unique identities that gives us our individual spirit our personality. Our our sense of freedom of will freedom of action. Our sense of our right to our own futures. That's what comes from within those are inner resources, that's our private realm. And it's intended to be private for a reason because that is how it grows and flourishes and turns us into people who assert moral autonomy and essential element of flourishing democratic society. We're talking to professor Shoshana Zubov while she's professor America at Harvard Business School. She is this remarkable new book the age of surveillance capitalism. I wanted to get your comment on and this latest news headline New York regulators ramping up of promised investigation of how Facebook gathered sensitive personal information from popular smartphone. Applications after report. By the Wall Street Journal revealed many such apps were sending the social media giant data, including users body, weight and menstrual cycles. All right. Well, so we're we're living in a time right now where every week there are a series of mini-scandals, and this is one of the mini-scandals this past week. There were there were several in this one of them. So what happens is we get mobilized around a mini scandal. If you understand surveillance capitalism, and you understand it economic imperatives that it needs always scale volumes of behavioral data that it needs scope varieties of behavioral data that it needs the kind of behavioral data that comes from actually intervening an influencing our actions as we talked about a moment ago. Then all of these mini-scandals are utterly predictable as the routine humdrum, please pass the salt every day operations of any self-respecting surveillance capitalist. So these absolute the Wall Street Journal researched. And I and I cover this in depth in the book just about every app that you download is shunting your data to third parties. Virtually every app is doing that. When you look at those third parties the two goals. Among those third. Parties are Facebook and Google most of the sites the you are ELLs that these data gets shunted to are owned by Facebook and Google, so what this means is that you you download an app many of these apps are we use them to help us with our daily life because we have needs that, you know, we need support. No one's really helping us with our lives. Certainly our institutions are not. So we have we have apps it help us with our health that help us with our fitness apps that help us keep track of our menstrual cycle absent help us think about our mental health. These very personal information going into these apps. It doesn't stop there. All going to third parties, primarily these goliaths Facebook and Google in this. We're finishing up the segment right now, we're going to do part two and posted online at mockery now that work. But what's? Prized you most as you did this research at every stage of this research there were times when I would be sitting in my study I worked on this book for seven years. I'd be sitting in my study. And I'd start screaming literally out loud often to no one, but my beautiful dog because there were so many revelations for me, I think the biggest one is understanding that. Were entering the twenty first century now with a new new domain of social inequality. We've been focused on economic inequality. It's tremendously important we now enter the twenty-first century where private surveillance capital has institutionalized asymmetries of knowledge. Unlike anything ever seen in human history. They know everything about us. We know almost nothing about them. We wanna thank you so much Shanna zoo off professor America at Harvard Business School, author of the new book the age of surveillance capitalism. The fight for human future at the new frontier of power, I made me Goodman. Thanks.
Shahidul Alam - Politics Cannot Be Separated from My Art
"You're listening to the H.. Photography podcast for over forty years being H has been the professional source photography video audio and more for your favorite Robert Gear News and reviews visited dot com or download the beach up to your iphone or android device. Now here's your host. Alan White's greetings things and welcome to the beach. Photography podcast our guest today as shah dual allom. He of course is a photo journalist. He's also the founder of a photo agency a photo academy and a photo festival in his native Bangladesh. He's a writer and educator writer activist and one of time magazines persons of the year for two thousand thousand eighteen. This time they got right show Dulas in New York to celebrate an exhibit of his photography at the Rubin Museum of Art. The show Schaja allom truth to power open on November eighth and will run until May fourth twenty twenty. It's a wonderful exhibit and provides a glimpse into his four decade career. We also I WANNA thank the Rubin Museum for inviting us to see the exhibit and we also welcome our second guest. Dr Lawrence Walsh Repeat Guest. Lorne is an author and a scholar. Her latest book is conversations on conflict. Photography a powerful exploration of public responses to photographic coverage of war and humanitarian crises. In the book she profiles none other than our guest today shadow alarm as well as many other photographers. And Editors Walsh also runs the photo journalism lab at the Nyu Gallatin School of individualized study and is director of lost roles America a National Archive of Photography and memory which he discussed is with us on a previous show. Welcome back okay. Before we start a little bit of background. China was born and raised in Dhaka. Bangladesh he studied in Liverpool Report and earned a PhD in chemistry from London University. All while taking up a newfound hobby photography he returned to Bangladesh in one thousand nine hundred four with the goal of using his photographic and public speaking skills to cover protest movements and advocate for social justice in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine. He helped to establish the award-winning DRIK. Picture Library and majority World Picture Agency and later the Path Shala South Asian Media Institute and Jobe Mila International National Photography Festival. His photographs have been published in the New York. Times Time Magazine and National Geographic and he's exhibited at the Museum of Modern Art the tate modern and the Pompidou Centre his book. My journey as a witness has been described as being the most important book ever written by a photographer. He's the recipient of Lucie Award and she'll Piccolo Award which is the highest cultural award given to Bangladeshi artists as well as the only person of color to have chaired the prestigious international jury of world. Press photo it is an honor to have you here on our show today. Delighted to be here. My first ARISS question is in. I'm opening this of the both of you. What are some concrete steps that could protect journalists from the kind of repercussions of free speech? That you've suffered or in order or to ensure that any detained journalists gets the attention needed to grant their release. I think what happened is a very clear indicator of what can be done Before I was arrested several very high profile people had been arrested in Bangladesh or sent abroad and exile title made ineffective in other ways and gotten gotten away with it in my case suddenly hold world protested tested. They were protesting the streets and people in Bangladesh to greater risk. It was more dangerous for them. I think the fact that you can mobilize people at that level. The the the public solidarity and that international networking is very much part of the resistance. But somebody who doesn't quite have the high the profile filed that you might Is it fair to say that. They're not going to get that kind of attention. And therefore they the release the came or is this something that Absolutely true I think which is why. I think sure we as photographers do what we do. But building those networks is part of the strategy. The one has to have if if one has made a choice of becoming an activist one is going to walk through through power. You recognize that they will be powerful enemies that he will pick up up along the way as we need to learn how to use a camera how to use words we also need to be able to recognize that that part of social activism listen is part of the deal sets up needed I think it also just goes beyond journalism. I think the public needs to better better understand the value of journalism. So that when we hear the President United States responding to legitimate legitimate reporting calling get fake news. We need to push back against that I mean the committee to Protect Journalists among other organizations has tracked and his telling us that imprisonments are at record highs and I think we have to listen to this and learn from other things also helped today my facebook will yesterday my facebook account got hacked. And it's something that's been happening when I got arrested. The police got hold of my laptop my mobile phones and they had access assist to all my social media. I be able to recover most of them twitter. Sadly of not Perhaps they can cont- intervene here but it's there are told. There's an active team dedicated to hacking me constantly. So you need to counter at many levels on really have a much broader brought a team working before going real quick just backup. We're talking about that. You were arrested Two thousand eighteen. Could you give the background of what led up to your arrest and what you were ceiling. Who'd you take off on the twenty ninth of July two students meme on Raji Were run over by bus force. It very sad but what it led to was a countrywide protests. And I feel it was because we were on a tinderbox People were enraged with the corruption nepotism with repression the looting of the banks all the things that are going going on and this is a spot that led to it now. People get hit by blesses every day in what was different about this event. It wasn't so much that it it was different. It was a that it happened when it did and be the response. The the minister lofted off He said exactly sent people get run over every day. What's the big deal? And that was really the thing that lit That enraged the people but what happened in return was actually very very interesting. The students took to policing the streets. I'm brought order into streets that we've never for had ordering. They found that ministers. Were driving around with unlicensed vehicles Policemen went around. Who didn't have driver's licenses? Awesome things like that and what they did was they ensured that ambulances got through. VIP's didn't if they didn't have the right authorization and they pointed pointed fingers to the government in the sense that if untrained students in the streets with zero resources can run the streets. Well what Mrs Got Mentoring so I was reporting on that and then the gut macaques turned violent. They started attacking the students. I was documenting that too. So that's when I got attacked on the fourth of August I got beaten. My Pin smashed up I continued reporting on the fifth of August. Two thousand eighteen. I gave an interview to Sarah. I was at that time alone in the flat talking to the BBC because because I was going to do a report for them falling day The doorbell rang. I answered the door and suddenly hold talk about. I don't really know but I'm told that around thirty security people came in. I know what happens in my luggage on because I was was alone in the flat. I want to make sure that I didn't go quietly so I made as much noise as I could. I resist it as much as I could. And perhaps that those extra minutes. It's that I gained was what saved my life. You're talking about being on facebook at that point and we were just talking about these out ideas of what about this idea of pressuring these giant organizations twitter as you mentioned and facebook to to do their part to ensure the safety give journalists that are using their platforms completely. I mean I think they are not only social media platforms their publishing platforms today And therefore they can be used used and abused and they are abused. What for me is very worrying is what I hear the fact that our government have relationships with some some of these big organizations where they are allowed the back door so in our case it's particularly worrying because very recently there's been these reports through Pegasus that activists have actually been targeted using surveillance technology? And this is one of my bones of contention. I mean wild. We have governments which talked about freedom and democracy. It's the same governments out of selling surveillance technology to my government which is preying on activists. Obviously it's alive question right now especially with facebook. Will they at some point down the road be legally responsible for user generated content because they are just a platform they are a publisher as well. I mean I think until then the cyber training for journalists is incredibly important because harassment. It happens And there aren't really there are organizations that are putting together guidelines and standards like echoes alliance. But there aren't a lot of there aren't international standards for cyber security standards it we can take a step backwards a little bit I wanted to ask a bit about your education and training in the hard sciences And maybe you can give a little bit of background on how that transition happened into photography. And where in your life at that point. The Role of activism played but Is there anything from that training that that you've kept with you all these years That affects or enables you photography or or something you utilize photojournalist. There's two segments to question. I'll split them up the first about how it happened. I'm from amid glass. Home and young men from middle class. Homes are expected to get respectable professions. which at least according to my parents outcasts a My Mom's proud doctors engineers lawyers whatever you know been. My mum discovered. I was going to be a photographer of a bride for a main concern mother. Why the same concerns so You know that's through so I got into university getting into united studied biochemistry and genetics at Liverpool University then I started my PhD Organic Chemistry. But while I was doing that I got involved with the Socialist Workers Party and it was while I was with them that I began to be the involved in race rights gay rights inequality issues and a whole range of things which were about social justice and at that time it was the political SOLIDARNOSC Movement for the Liberation of Poland. And I could see how they were using images to maximum effect and I thought hey this as a tool yeah I began to think does does Bangladesh need yet. Another research chemist. But I thought with a camera I could probably chief something something that would bring about a change so that was my conscious decision about doing what I was doing. And you but your thoughts always worked to go back to Bangladesh regardless of how easily. Yeah completely I mean that's home that continues to be my home. I'm out on bail. I still face potential jail sentence fourteen years. But that's where I'm GONNA go I have the options that But in terms of what it does I think it's not so much the the technical skills that you learn but the process the fact that you recognize problem solving that you have an Ireland ethical. Approach that you can deconstruct truck to situation reduce it to elements that are needed. You can identified the weak links you can identify the rate limiting steps. Those zero standard parameters that apply across the board on Education always has a value. What was your contact with Bangladesh while you're overseas And basically getting your education and everything else. How often do you go back? And did you monitor. It was going on it. 'cause there's something to be said about being able to step back look at the situation more globally but there's also value to be right up front and looking at it from a macro point of did you have a good balance or was it just hunch haunch. I didn't have a good balance. I'd left home when I was seventeen And this was before into that And I certainly didn't have the money to go back home in between so I he's working my way through. I was working as a laborer day. Labor trying to find my way through university but of course lettuce still existed and I stayed in touch watch what was very important for me was the fact that I been through this war of liberation and they were these people back there who had left behind I knew what so many people had sacrificed their lives for a pseudo. There was that hunger to go back and play my role. I stayed in touch obviously in whatever way I could but there was a gap. There were very very important. Transition is and because of that gap when I came back in nineteen ninety four and discovered that a general had taken over my country. I thought this is not the country we fought for on. It was imperative for me to bring it back back story that the camera that you first started shooting with with something you bought for a friend and is obviously I mean. This was while I was at university. Freddie Laker introduced Laker Airways. which is the budget airline You could get a flight from London to New York on what they call the sky train for ninety pounds. I thought you know I'm a poor student. This is my chance to go to the United States so I was about to buy that ticket and this friend of Mine Not University said the Dole is low the. US IS A good place to buy cameras. Why did you buy me one so I turned up? This was before being h I still found the cheap shops which sell good days and cameras coverage so I bought a new slogan. Sorry so I bought an the Nikkei fem a rickety tripod a flash cut deeping by an attempt. I hitched round the united. Those were the days. You could still each ser. So I hitched around the United United States and Canada took some pictures with me. I came back to London. My Mate didn't have the money to pay for the camera sites that I was very happy accident. I'd say Jason say so we're elements so learn. You written a book conversations on conflict photography and and so he is One of the people you profile. Can you maybe speak a little bit about the conversations that you had and maybe distinguish it a bit from some of the other photographers that you spoke to For the book. Sure so the book. It's a series of interviews with this photographers. Who've covered conflict around the world and then photo editors and then also I did interviews with major human rights and humanitarian organisations because they're leading funders and distributors distributors of Conflict Imagery in terms of distinguishing? The perspectives I mean. It was very important to me to have a diverse breath of voices in the book. I mean really what I wanted to do was give voice to the people who make and distribute this kind of imagery and I wrote a few essays that contextualized I realize it but I was looking at it from a an American or western point of view and thinking about how do we respond to images as of crisis or suffering war that come to us from far away so I wasn't looking at domestic conflicts And I with that in mind is the the history of photo. Journalism is more male the not and more Western than not so. This book was very conscious in saying. I WANNA speak with male and female practitioners. I WANNA be. I WANNA have western and non Western voices so the the anecdotes and experiences that the photographers relate late They carry some of these differences with them. I can speak to Shahidullah about what does it mean to be a local photographer. And what what were your experiences when you talk to me about the cyclone and what happened with coverage for New York Times And then I would ask similar questions of American carvers carvers to say. Well what does it mean for you to fly to somewhere in Africa. Document a famine or war so it was each interview is distinguished insofar as it. What is the role of conflict imagery from that one person's experiences and perspectives and because everyone brings is a different perspective? You get these. It's really a polyphony of voices and experiences and I I spoke to people who've been covering for up to forty years so it's kind of also also a history of the world Inside three hundred pages and and is it fair to say that we are seeing. Maybe a change toward toward A photo journalism that that that respects the locals who are doing you know who actually involved with the the event Previously photographers might have been flown in to cover Or is that something that still needs a lot of work. I think if we look back over the decades they're absolutely more more local photographers. Who are working? And there's a number of reasons for this The gear is is not as hard to get. We also have the rise of Citizen Journalism which opens a whole set of questions because then are you trained in the same journalistic standards that had news? Doing audience would expect. I still think there's a definite imbalance In terms of especially and Shahidul and I were talking about this who has the ability to get there. Let's say images for talking sheriff you images out through some of the most powerful media entities in the world I mean I think some of the wire services are working a lot more with local photographers but then that it opens a whole set of questions of Local photographers face greater risks. Any precautions if you have an American passport for you can leave a country if things go really wrong. It's a lot harder if you're the local Afghani photographer or the local Mexican photographer. uh-huh so I yeah I think there have been many strides forward and I think there's still quite a bit of work to be done that same note. Do you find that your experiences overseas with higher education and exposure to Europe and the United States is helping you go back now as opposed to somebody of equal skill to you who's never left Bangladesh. Who doesn't have the worldliness that you do have of course I think it's I'm here talking to you on today. Because of some of those connections there are perfectly competent. Great photographer out there is work is never been seen scene. One of the things we've done is built an archive and within that collected the work of great photographers whose work should be known and What many people do not know about for instances that the war of liberation of nine hundred seventy one was not only a seminal event in terms of world history but also seminal event in terms of welfare graphic history? The crates of photojournalism. Were there Mary Ellen. Mark David Bernez Don mcallen Bruno. BARBADE dipoto Ruggeri Abbass. Rashid thought GA percents. They ruled that yet. It's this typically collection of that work. There's never been an exhibit until we began collecting it. The this had never been assimilated and that has has many reasons. I mean I'm cynical. It's an at times and I think got independent at the wrong time. Gone Independence on the sixteenth of December. which it was just too close to Christmas? Well I mean in the middle of a war in Southeast Asia. Obviously you know this is before for the Internet digital and analog days page spreads and things are set up and it takes a lot of doing to dislodge Christmas. That's can we talk a little bit about but but the drik picture picture the library and and when you realize that was something that was kind of fundamental to the to the purpose that you were going for as opposed to just taking your own pictures and doing your best to get them out there. I I was having a show in Belfast And I was staying with friends in newry. which is a town close to Belfast? And they they didn't have big house. Oh so they had a little daughter Karina five year old And Corinna went to mom and dad's room to make room fun culture heater so I'm there I come in from the show one day and empty my pockets putting some coins on the table and Corinna standing in the doorway usually she runs up to me jumps to my op. We tell each other stories but that day she just stood there and I said what's the matter Carina. She says you got money. I said yes. Got Money and goes but but you're from Bangladesh. She could make it fit and got me thinking about the sort of social political cultural space within which a five year old throws up wishes incapable of seeing a Bangladeshi as anything other than an icon of poverty. And I got to think you know it has to do with who controls the narrative And there is this beautiful African expression. Rico's something like until the lions find their storytellers stories. Stories about hunting will always glorify hunter. I thought well it's about time the lines found storytellers. And I knew by. Then I'd work with with agencies overseas and I knew how the dissemination worked and I thought okay. We need to build up an agency but we decided not to open open it in the conventional spaces of Paris London New York but to set it up in Bangladesh. Because that's where photographers were. But they were challenges. Alan just to go with art as well as I say this way before internet or whatever so what. Many people don't realize we introduced email to Bangladesh in the early nineties. Because we having decided we would be in the backwaters. We then needed that light line. So we actually introduced email and built a south-south at south but globally through which could disseminate our oil. Okay we spoiled. We are definitely spoiled. Uh I was going through Lawrence Book and the Texas Amazing and the photographs are very very powerful. And you've been working on this project for about ten years now and you're looking at a lot of photographs of conflict and they're not always pretty and I'll open this question. Both of you have these pictures effect. You have to well you have to step back because it could really become powerful to look at this stuff. I just sitting here going through the book for ten minutes. I was moved. Good ways and bad ways you live with this. Do you need to take breaks from it. Or how do you process. All of us So the book was for years. But I've been working in this time on on this topic. Broadly conflict photography for about ten Yes I I have gotten more able to look at got some kind of quote unquote hard images and usually that means graphic or violent images and I I think of it akin to it's the way officer. A surgeon grows overtime rates. You start out as a medical student. At some point you have to do a dissection of a human body and I imagined that that is is very difficult the first time you have to put a scalpel to skin and I imagine it's difficult the second time and then it gets easier and easier and if I needed to have surgery I don't want want a surgeon who isn't capable of doing it in a very confident not squeamish way right. They have to get used to what they're doing. So in that sense MM-HMM I think there are some images that other people would find very graphic and it's easier for me to look at them some kinds of Like certain kinds of let's say a gunshot wound The images that for me never seem to lose that punch to the stomach are when I see pictures of children in enormous pain or severely malnourished or when I see pictures of children who are dead and the parents are somewhere in the frame of the of the in that same frame because the parents her almost always if not always the agony is is written into their faces. It's it's just seems the most devastating thing that could happen to someone so I find find those very they continue to be powerful images and I thought about this In putting together the book. There's a balance between some hard graphic imagery. There's there's beautiful images in this book as well there's beautifully serene images including one by Shahidullah. Where you have to understand it in context to realize actually this is very a very haunting the crossfire photograph so in terms of how do you deal with it? I think recognizing that images can be painful and talking. I mean I'd certainly we talk to colleagues and Photographer friends about I find that. Actually just talking about it and acknowledging it is helpful for me and unhelpful for others in. Because I don't want to in fact become numb to someone else's pain I don't WanNa ever get to a point where I can look at. Someone's his extreme suffering and say it doesn't matter to me anymore and you talked about that somewhat being seed for the book itself responses from students. Can you show them you know painful images and they just didn't want to bother. The entire book started because of an episode and one of my classes at. And why you where we were. It was of course on conflict imaging and ethics Until we were asking questions like what does it mean to look someone else's suffering and we were studying a famine that happened in Sudan in the early nineteen nineties and so the students read about the history of it there at about the political forces they looked at the photographic coverage of it and they read the critiques of the coverage and they came into class and I was just about to start the lecture and I put up the first image which was from their assigned work. And it's a photo is black and white. It's at A feeding center in Sudan and it shows a man who is severely severely emaciated you really skin and bones. And he's too weak to stand so he's crawling on the ground and I think it's a I think it's an image that Sh- really confronts you with what can happen into the human form like in a in a very terrible circumstance and so I was just about to start. Speaking in a student raised his hand and said professor. I know why you're putting that picture trope. It's such a Downer and I have plans tonight and I don't feel like I should be made to feel by looking at it. I have nothing to do with his suffering so the book then became a I I initially. I froze I didn't know what to do Because I'd never had students that it's not it's not even a required class like they all have elected to be in that class But I thought about his response more and more and it was actually after Having a conversation with the photographer friend who covers conflict around the world and telling him the anecdote and I thought he was going to say something. Like millennials are so selfish or that was so obnoxious and he said the opposite acid- he said. I'm not sure why you're surprised. It's not provocative. I hear this all the time so that was when I thought okay. Well if that is a response then the first question I was asking was then. What's the point of this kind of imagery and I personally think there is tremendous value to documenting conflict And so so then. The book became This endeavor to understand. How do you do this? We're speaking giving voice to the practitioners. How do you do this work? Why you you do this work? What successes and failures do you encounter? And I was very interested in continuing the line that had started in my classroom which was thinking about all the ethical all components of work. Especially when you're in settings that are in in some cases life or death in in your book you have. The photograph is picture in particular of the Boston. Marathon breath on bombing one of the survivors. Being wheeled off his foot is straight out and below the knee you just see. A Shin Bone sticking out and some muscle and the was published just cropped just before the knee because the editors thought that was just a little bit too graphic and a little bit. Two bloody How do you deal with that? I mean where do you draw a line. How do you push maybe just jump in here? Look at to say that I mean in your exhibit. There there are very few violent images. You're torturing conflict and war and social unrest Do you you feel. Do you find that it's necessary to show the abject violence in order to make the point you WanNa make an and over the years of seeing how your photos have been reacted to do you find one an or another doing more as it were well. Lauren was referring to a particular body. What called crossfire? Which is about extrajudicial killings and when I started doing the work I considered what should be the imagery because would showing more bodies Actually add to either our information or our response to it We decided to take a very different position position. They were tactical reasons as well. I mean in the sense. I live in work in a very repressive environment and I want to make sure that my work can a slip in That I can actually show my way. So we did extensive research And then we decided to produce images based on what we assumed would be the last site off the dying person but we did some certain things which contextualized for instance All the debts all the killings had taken place in at night. Several photograph was taken at at that point in time early as the morning. Whenever the killing taking place we talked to the family members who survived and he said well the first thing we saw with these torches being shown on my face so every picture has been lit by torchlight so there are very subtle things which it's only when you begin to deconstruct that image? You realize is that element within it but that show has until until now being the most successful show I've ever had including the fact that when the government closed it down we took the government to court and we we were able to get the show reopened it's been shown in major festivals being. It's been on the front cover of amnesty human rights. Watch and it. It has been a tool for activism for many people who've begun to use it. Now I remember having a conversation with Christian cajole I think it was in Barcelona where he was talking about how we were wondering whether had Eugene Smith Been Alive today he would. He would have photograph Pittsburgh the same as he did. Then we don't know for sure but I I would like to think that he would have found a different way of telling the story. Because the landscape the media landscape is shifted the language of choice Sir and Shakespeare and Dickens and Salman Rushdie an entity. Roy are all very very very different each appropriate for a particular point in time yet as photographers. We've often felt that bb purist and this is the only way hey to render and produce image the fact that people respond differently that the environment is different is something we need to respond to to come back to your. Oh question about What is happening? I think what drives me. It's the knowledge that while we hear sitting in this lovely studio it'd be an H.. There are people dying there that are people being disappeared. There are people facing horrendous consequences for standing up for their rights. Her and while that is happening this is not an academic exercise. It is not an exhibition or a project of some sort. This is about people's lives and if that's the case that keeps you the adrenaline I think just on that point though I mean the questions that you're asking Alan Alan. Those are some of the things that I really wanted. An it comes up a lot in the section of interviews with the photo editors right what is too graphic and how do you define defined quote unquote. Too graphic are you giving more dignity to let's say the American victim versus the black or brown body from another part of the world how you're treating the subjects in the photographs And these kinds of questions of what we see and what we don't see so that's all kind of connected to the question you raise as before and in terms of graphic imagery you know the photograph of The victims named from the Boston Marathon bombing is Jeff Bauman and it really. He is a very graphic photograph And if one of your goals is as a news entity is to get people to engage with to look at the image and read about it with with very graphic imagery you do run the risk of revulsion. It's too much and people then and you've lost your news reader. I I personally think there are times when The the very graphic image should still be taken right and it may not. We need to be published in the newspaper but The interview. Let's say with Human Rights Watch talks about this. Or there's a photograph by Ron Haviv in the the book. The picture of ethnic cleansing mates it's para-military standing over the bodies of executed civilians. And it's a photograph that will that one was published quite widely. But it's also a photograph that came back later on to be used to prosecute to indict in prosecute criminals. And I think in that sense sometimes. The graphic imagery The graphic imagery. That isn't let's say used. Initially as journalism can be used as evidence in courts of law conscience Kupuna Reno which photograph if you're referring to him and also about your sh the show crossfire and this idea that you know the the viewer needs to understand the context and therefore is engaged more with this the series and therefore it might be more effective simply because they are engaged as opposed to that very graphic image that they may look for a second look away you know what I I mean. So obviously the viewers key to any kind of activism to go beyond that and and I speak as an activist activists. You know. I'm not trying to produce the perfect image I'm trying to produce the most effective image And at the end of the day it is not merely the image but how it is used on with crossfire for instance. We've had it in conventional magazines that British Journal of Photography and other traditional photographic outlets. But it's also going to museums. It's gone to galleries. It's it's been used by activists in the streets streets and it's been used on the cover of amnesty and Human Rights Watch so that multiplicity of use is not something that lends itself off to every image and perhaps certain images are better able to overcome those barriers. I also I I I just I found it so fascinating and I think it's really worth pointing out That because the book covers the history of the world I worked for the fact Checker To to fact everything we learned in the process that after he duels crow show crossfire was up in Bangladesh. The number of extrajudicial show killings by this killing force went down shine a light question. Russian that has slightly do this These newspapers traditional even online news agencies are are the most effective way still For underrepresented stories to be told you spoke about a show at a mosque and You have a museum and obviously there many now uh nontraditional. Let's say ways to get images out there even a poster on a street that somebody carrying. Do you think that the were kind of over this this kind kind of the mass. Let's say mass journalism Is it still effective is still useful for the types of stories that you want to tell. I don't think there is one answer. I I think that in itself is what needs to. You need to take every situation and work best to it. And I think we need that plurality. Not You know. The online space. Is the traditional spaces social media word of mouth. All of that are valid Some but better in certain situations than others I I work in an environment where let's say in Bangladesh for instance. The printed newspaper is still increasing circulation. which is exactly the opposite of what's happening out here and it will change? There will be a time when that will shift but until it does I will recognize the imminent. Will your photos or photos of your colleagues that you respect who are working in these these stories. Will they find their way into into a Bangladeshi newspaper. That will depend very much upon what what how we've arranged to it because some of of it is not even about the newspaper. This you may know of this various famous Pulitzer winning picture of Michelle Laura of the banning of the Biharis in Bangladesh. Now Russia Talukdar. One of our photographers also took a very strong picture that time he never published it because publishing it would be equivalent to signing his own death warrant. The people who did the banting was still very much in control. It was only in Nineteen ninety-three three twenty two years later. I was able to convince him that it was now safe to publish that picture. So those are part of what happens you you know you. You need to negotiate that space. But I think one of the things where we have lost out as photography's we to solarge extent have felt that the photograph images all there is to it. I think many other things happen to happen. Be Around contextualising. It is important. I I think it's vital that photography writers I think we I still retailers need to find multiple ways of telling stories of engaging and once we're able to do that our work then becomes so much more usable by by the media itself. It's when it's a uni-polar in a Polish single image standing on its own it has limited potential when we were at the museum earlier. EU brought up Sunday. It was kind of interesting where you will be putting a show in a mosque. And you're getting a lot of pushback about that and the way you explained things to them change these things around. Can you go over that again. Because I thought that was very amazingly very tactically us will I I live and work in Bangladesh where many many people think fed graphs are haram. You know For instance if there's a funeral the photographs will be turned a ten round because it's not considered proper for photographs to be there in religious situation. I had chosen synagogues and churches and temples at never shown in a mosque. Because was it was considered impossible to and I'm very conscious off Islamaphobia of xenophobia and the perceptions about Islam and I want to dress that at the same time I also wanted places like musk's to become known for what their true the potential is So the first challenge was convincing the mosque that I can show work in it. It's a very beautiful must by the way at one dollar kind of what your tech Designed by a woman land is to mate donated by her grandmother so those elements to it as well And I took photographs but before he nice started taking photographs. I spoke to the mosque committee until them why I wanted to do it and I reminded them mm of how Prophet Mohammad had used his. Musk the fact that his mosque in Medina was an education center. A Cultural Center into a community center A hospital it sheltered women met state dignitaries in the mosque but there it was an art troupe from Abyssinia who came and said to the Prophet where can be show. We have no place to show our work and he said show it. In My mosque it became a gallery. If during the prophets time ago a musket have such a wonderfully diverse range of usage. Why have you reduced? And it's not just for true from us. It's true of places of prayer. In a sense I think religion and has been reduced to very clinical actions about which have to do with praying and proselytizing and older set of things whereas it is part out of human life and be forgotten that so that is a show. I'm now trying to show. Wildest Ruben shows going on perhaps in moss around the country speaking of the show. Can we talk a little bit about that. And how you organize that you mentioned that It is organized as a kind of trilogy. Is that true or really one show within within not aspect. I mean it. I don't know if it's what I expected. Necessarily the whole show. I mean there's kind of a retrospective aspect But there's also you're dealing with certain particular stories within this. Can you talk a little bit about a couple of those The Ruben show it's billed as a retrospective. There's only so much you can show so there. There are significant chapters which are not there for instance crossfire. But what we've tried to do a a two things. One is look at the trajectory of my attempt for social justice which is underpinned underpins the entire show but also the various vocabularies that I've tried to us from traditional black and white photo repertoire as Magnum and other agencies would have done to find out conceptual chill work and places where I've ensured that the politics of my work is embedded within the artwork itself because one of the things that had happened happened in the very first body of work which I did which is called the struggle for democracy I was looking at politics The resistance to generally shot and there is a sequence of pictures which are about a flood that take place it was them biggest flooding in a century. An juxtaposed without is these are the photographs of wedding a hugely opulent wedding. That had taken place. It was the daughter very powerful minister now. The juxtaposition the position made it very stock. Here was this wedding taking place out of time with the nation is really under those floods That made it difficult because that was what scared off my sponsors versa and I stopped getting out. None of the galleries would be prepared to show the work. So that ah led to a whole different set of things towards you a lesson yes we built gallery. You know. It's it's looked at politics with appea- but also Class divides gender shoes environmental issues military occupation a whole range of things but covered. It did not work but later on I've looked at things like disappearance Be talked about the crossfire. Show the The show about the culpeper culpeper Chuck Norris Indigenous. A woman who was picked up at the military on the twelfth of June nineteen. Ninety six works for me was very significant because we had fought our war for the right to speak our language yet within our own nation. Be Denying other people to speak. There's that for me would so staggering. The word indigenous is something that cannot be used. It's is being banned by our Constitution. You cannot use the word indigenous in English so I began on the twelfth of June two thousand thirteen gene and the next two years on the twelfth of June producing a new body of work. The first body I did was using forensic technology technology to look look at what I considered the silent witnesses so I collected objects along the path of a last journey and photograph in the clarify. This was the young woman who was disappeared. She she was. She was picked up by the military on the night of the twelfth of June nineteen ninety six and what was her offense. She was an activist. She wanted rights for her people. Okay a so on. The investigation is still ongoing going. I thought well if you've got to do an investigation. What do you do right at the beginning? You do the forensic study the words of bungalows like me and the military were taken into account for the Bihari Voices. Whenever heard so? I thought I would interrogate the silent. Witnesses and it's. It's work that I did in initially in Bangladesh than in Britain Germany eventually in Australia And produce those High magnification images through fluorescent photography. I then did other body of work where I tried to show the person and we were talking earlier on about how you felt that there was actually a person then Dan yes I still WANNA go back. I'm I'm convinced there was somebody. I don't care what you see. On the next body of work was about the champions Champions of culpable the people who've carried on the fight which includes my partner which includes Sara Hussain. WHO's the lawyer who who stood up for me one of his jail on CIDER gourock again? Someone who I've been working with for a long time class. What sorry to interrupt up at the the motivation to take on this story in this manner with the forensic photography styling was as something that you felt was born from the story itself or was it something that you said you know what I this is something? I'd like to do as a photographer. I'd like to investigate in this terms and use a different set of skills. Well my my partner actually asked me a very pertinent question She said let me ask you a silly question. Isn't it all in the imagination you say. Of course it was in my imagination but I felt through that imagination. I could unlock some doors. AUSE and there were two things I wanted to do. One point out that the process of investigation was flawed seriously flawed. But also. Here's a person and there are no photographs of this woman This has happened at when I was doing the work had happened. What Sixteen years ago seventeen years ago you know. What am I going to photograph seventeen years after the event and I thought there are still people? There are still objects that can speak to me and of course as a photographer. I need something visual so I need to find a visual way of rendering story story. So that's how I began then. I thought the other challenges we need to bring her live. This is a woman who is flesh and blood who was picked away taken away from us. This is my sister who no longer exists. I need to bring back by sister. So the next body of work which is where you thought that she was there she is. I'm sorry so in that sense I've been success with the third one which was on the straw mats actually had to do with a broader range of issues because we have now begun a campaign called no more as the name suggests suggests these are things we think society should not tolerate and we began it with south work about the government accidents that are taking place in Bangladesh. We didn't in confident Chatman. We've continued with crossfire. And all these other things so in that particular story we want to include something about the garment industry within the work and the process of doing the work itself was significant. Because something had happened very early on when I showed that I work doc on struggled for democracy you know the there's a wedding pictures and there's a flood pitches and everyone turns it down. There was a magazine that published a review. You might get out of that work. Interestingly the owner of the magazine was the wife of the minister. I thought what's going on. Here this is this this minister critiquing and whatever his wife does and it was a beautiful review. But then you take a step back and you find in the review. They talk about the artistry by work. DOC The compositions subtlety the strength of my blackened mind photography completely obliterating the political hunter. They're going to an art show. We'll exactly exactly and this is the trap that B. Find Ourselves in you can be your Nice. Little artists will give you some funding will give you a nice gallery. Will you'll have a great show. Let's leave the politics out of it. And I decided I would ensure that my politics could not be separated from art and in this final work. Queer eye produce the work in a manner where the fire that burned. Those villages is used to burn those Straw mats. The carbon a not straw-mat is my pixel an entire process also involves the garment industry in older set of things. So when you look at that image in China understand that image you take all of that political background in you know. As we mentioned earlier you spent a couple of months in jail last year. And it's almost a almost a year to the day since your release I guess this is kind of a big question that I'll break down into a couple of things how was it to be in some sense. The focus of the news the story of the News as opposed to somebody covering the news How did that work for you And how was it to not be able able to document with a camera in the time that you were in jail or even the time afterwards. I'm assuming took a little bit to get your gear back somehow or get it new gear and then obviously maybe a year later any any kind of stop the second question. I When I was a student you you had money problems? Have Money Problems There's were analog days yet to buy me a protest film it was expensive cameras expensive today but at that time the actual actual film itself So I used to go round taking pictures without film in my camera. I would take pictures all day. I've done that and of course you went as you need to. uh-huh gymnast needs to train himself or herself. A musician need to do the vocals do you you practice the cords. This is part of the gymnastics photography needs to do you look at images you breathe images. Look Imagine the images that you've missed out and all those side would go around all day taking pictures without single film. Now that when I began my work I did these stories on the missing on the disappeared. Now photography's very good at rendering. What is in front of the visual? It's not as good at photographing the missing the invisible It's not a natural medium for photographing what is absent. But it can be done and I. I was doing that for some time. While it's jail. The camera itself was missing so then I had to find a way of. How do I tell the story when it's not there itself? The two things I did the I had nothing and to do with me. I managed to convince Not I own my own together. With other prisoners we may able to convince the warden's to allow paint brushes and paint and the prisoners painted murals. Eighty five huge murals. It's like a museum inside the jail it's dramatic But I began to use words. I I mean I do right by. I interviewed extensively while I was there. I made copious notes but when I came out I started working with my niece. Sophia Kareem as an architect to producing three D models off Off The the Jalen of the situations I've been in based on my memory. We decided not to do it from architectural drawings Google maps but use my memory which is a more focus On that that Amorphous Nature I felt was part of it because this these two artists talking to one another models are very exacting. I was looking at them and I'm surprised to hear you. It's from your memory. It looks like they were taken from actual line drawings of the plans. That are very interesting. Things in there. For instance there are the sparrows I used to feed and that was what I had. The sparrows were free. They had flight. They were outside And I I started feeding them and we didn't have anything there so fellow prisoners smuggled in cardboard boxes which I cut up to make a little platform for them and I would save a little a bit of my breakfast for the sparrows and they come in and fleet inside. I took down the mosquito net from my window to allow them in. I I was preventive. PUT UP WITH MOSQUITO BITES. I have my sparrow friend so there are those little details but all of that is there and there is for instance another element which is me collecting flies because my partner would come every day other people would come really. It's the people outside who suffered a lot more than I did. I think but they would bring me things. I had nothing to give back side would collect flowers in the morning and give them those flowers. That was my gift back. That is also part of the show. Wonderful I didn't answer the other bit. No I did. Yeah I think you and I mean well maybe just this this idea of the media looking back at you as opposed to around July. And I've been doing this for a very very long time. So over. The years is Built bug eyed students across the globe. public speaker I write. I take pictures. I work at many levels and part of that I think resulted in in this very widely orchestrated very powerful movement I thought it was people. Power is fantastic. You know show of People Power but in terms of having the spotlight on me. It's true that spotlight was on me. But I look at everything I do as part of my social activism a a now that the spotlight was in me I decided I would use that spotlight and I my being here. Today is part of that because what I'm also talking talking about is not me as such but what I represent and I think through this today. You know your viewers out there. We'll know about what is happening in Bangladesh and for me one of the questions to ask it not merely what my Bangladeshi government is doing but what international governments during the fact that you sell weapons to my government the fact that you sell surveillance equipment to my government on not despite bite the rhetoric of democracy and freedom. Most foreign governments have far more interested in working with applying dictator than a messy. Democracy is something thing I want to remind the average citizens and I believe the onus is upon you to ask those hard questions to your government to ensure that your tax money isn't used the wrong way good points I will say on that exact note one of the things that I worked very hard to do in the book especially in these essays as by me which are trying to describe what is the contemporary landscape of journalism but also What are some of the critical questions we as viewers should be asking asking of images? It is one of my hopes that someone who reads the book will then be able to look at a photograph and not just say. I'm seeing suffering in Yemen or I'm seeing suffering in whatever location. It is where the picture was taken but will then ask the question. Chen of and what role do I play in this home connected to the yeah exactly Maybe just to take a little different direction What camera do you use with your favorite Lens? What what what do you find important about The gear use anything. I use the camera have with me. Okay all right phone. These phone wasn't in fact within the show. You had an iphone. Yes I I use it quite a lot. I use it extensively in fact a lot of the reporting I was doing. I was doing with my iphones at that time the reporting for which I went to jail wis because of my iphone photography That was for a practical reason. You know we it meant I could work at a level which perhaps would be less under the great more under the radar got phone. Yeah But of course I still got caught out Decrepit got smashed. I got beaten up and I continue. She needs to work what the police have today on my iphones and my macbook pro. They didn't know you get another one. I Guess I uh-huh you've been doing this for forty years. Can you point anything concrete. That's come as positive that you'd say okay. I know that my work made aide. This happened made this positive change. Can you point to anything in particular. Hala Corey referred to something very tiny. I left home in seventeen seventeen. I came back when I was twenty nine. I didn't really know my parents as adults and I wanted to know them. These were very special people but I knew it was going to be very difficult. I'd lived a very independent life and here I was twenty nine year old living at home. You know there's gotTa that'd be problem so there were problems but one of the things I hadn't anticipated was in middle class homes in Bangladesh. You have home help. NOPE and there was a young boy. Called Meson who used to clean the rooms babies to watch television And we would sit there and and what television. He would sit outside the room to television through the door. Not Very far away but politically socially miles apart. One of things we've done is we've used our calendar for activism as well whereas calendars before we used had. I used to have pretty pictures. Flowers landscape pretty women. We decided to use social documentary as the content of calendar. An an I in in the calendar I think it was in one thousand nine hundred. Eighty eight published a picture of musone watching TV. I give a copy to Meson. I gave a couple of my mother over the next day. Meson satisfied that trump to TV with us a very tiny think perhaps but very succinct and may may very tough and it was your parents that do you think that it was and this is maybe a broader question than this situation but was there the awareness. It just wasn't there until the photo was shown to them or the photo itself. Force them to kind of re to say you know what I I have to. I have to address this. Does it fish. No it's a motor. I mean we are surrounded each one of us have so many prejudices and biases which we are not aware of overlooked only when we confronted by it and here here was a a very liberated educated Progressive Woman Who's being confronted by WHO own son About what was happening thing in her home every day and this is going to lead me to. I guess maybe our last questions with you spoke of people who are disappeared or people came back to Bangladesh but then they lost their voice voice You are middle class man. Who Studied Chemistry? What why do you still have your voice? Why are you able to go back? Time meantime again and speak and create institutions. That will continue to speak. I think firstly I'm not alone I mean I am physically here talking. But there risk a huge group of people around me and it's a collective struggle one of the things I began to. It was a conscious decision to make as a photographer I got into photography because I wanted social change and I had to think of how best that social change might be affected. Certainly through photography and writing was one one but I felt if you've got to fight a war you need warriors and you need to build warriors so I the agency was a platform on which Sean through which we could work. I set up the school so they were now. There are so many other young bright photography's from Manga. They doing work. Then I set up the festival itself and while I'm not a politician I am engaged in politics and I. I have two areas of interest in three areas of intervention media education and culture and I ensure that with that tripod I exert pressure sure upon the political spacesuit politicians cannot get away what they used to getting away with and in terms of having the voice I think it is a collective voice yes and sure this is a phenomenal movement. You know they were over a dozen Nobel laureates world celebrities campaigning for me but there were people people on the ground and people in Bangladesh taking uterus to be doing it and I don't think this is my voice. I think it is our voice. I'm just happy that I'm able to carry it. Okay then a wrap of a fascinating show if I may say so myself and speaking shows we'd like to remind everybody that Shadow allom truth to power will be on exhibit at the Rubin Museum of Art. That's here in New York City through May fourth twenty twenty. The museum is located at one fifty West Seventeenth Street which is just down the street. From one of the original locations of being h photo Daulat listeners would like to catch up on more of your work which websites instagram. Where could they go to see more of your work? Dot Com three three dot net. That's my own site in the agency but I also run a blog shade. The News Dot Com So those would be good but there is the show coming up at the Vienna Next month in the later this month in thirteen thirty in London. And we'll have all of this information in our show notes And as a book should be buying looking at you should now have arrived at the Rubin on Steidl which is fabulous publisher of books. Folks I mean Hera came to a festival in March. He said I wanted to your book. I said you know I've got a show at Rubin in November Says Keeping The manuscript is August. I'll give you a book. And he did it was I just came from going in and the work incredibly hard all shifts weekends and I've just been told that the book has physically arrived. It's called the tide will turn it's edited by. Vj Shot but it also has a beautiful letter by the great writer around the Roy. Okay all right Lauren. Your new book is conversations on conflict. The target fee and it's available now right. Yes it's been out since early October. Okay and I was just flipping through the early and it's it's a powerful book that I definitely want to go back and Revisit Fisher. Thank you really really good and if people want to catch up on more of what you're up to can they go to Lauren. Walsh DOT COM easy. Okay and again all this will be our show notes as well Lauren. Welcome back against against always great having you as a guest here Shell pleasure honor having you here in our studio It was a fascinating discussion. Thank you so much this you again. Some type LIMP. Are you not a regular subscribe to our show. If not all you have to do is head. On over to apple podcast Google podcast stitcher overcast or spotify and sign up. It's absolutely free. Tell Them L.. Sent you In the meantime My name is Alan Whites and on behalf of Jason and John Fine. Thank you so much tuning into today