10 Episode results for "Sanza"

802 - A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms - Instant Talk

Game of Thrones The Podcast

20:34 min | 2 years ago

802 - A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms - Instant Talk

"Welcome to the game of thrones podcast. The officially unofficial podcast for game of thrones on HBO. I'm John I'm Ron and were here after having just watched mere seconds ago. The latest episode of game of thrones eight oh two. Nobody knows the title. It's game of thrones episode sixty nine according to HBO. Are you gonna do they at some point? They do put up the titles, and I don't understand why you wouldn't do that. When you go live with your episode. They don't have that technology. Wwl call the president of HBO at eight fifty nine and whisper the episode title to them, and they can't get it into the system. Fasten update what secrecy secrecy? Crazy. What'd you think of this episode? I love this episode is pretty good this I didn't expect this is a this is another type of setup episode. This is a setup episode that sets up your emotional stakes and reminds you of wire invested in the things that are about to happen. And we had you know, there was some unfinished business that we needed to see with Jamie, and how he'd be accepted at the court of winter fell and how he'd mesh with brand. And how things would fall between John and Danny? And and like we talked about last episode that this is going to be one of the big themes of the season's going to be your Danny, and John maybe not turning against each other or though maybe that will happen, but how they can like win the north and unite all these different tribes and. And interest in factions. And I felt like episode went a long way for showing that they know that they need to do that with Danes having a sit down and Sanza and. It didn't quite resolve. But it came so damn close. What did you think? No. I thought this episode was actually great. Probably better than the first one. I didn't feel like any of it was clunky. I thought this is exactly the type of episode the need to do before presumably a lot of these characters. Go off to die. Right. I wanted to get all of that unfinished business off the table. We knew a lot of this stuff had to happen. And so now, and it happened in really nice ways. I thought maybe the best scene of the entire episode is brand being knighted. That was a really meaningful seen. I thought. There were a couple of other good ones. What did you think about? Aria gingery hooking up man because I felt like that this was a very fan service episode fan, and I felt like it was servicing. The for the most part like all that Jamie and brand stuff is so good and Tyrian to sit down with brand that was really cool, and I like to bring the sands, and Danny stuff and all the Jamie interior stuff was really good. But. I don't know if I was ready to see our star getting busy with again. Like, I wasn't like I was thinking like, you know. Okay. They're shipping them. Obviously last episode. The aria looks like she's kind of charmed by him and vice versa. And didn't the full on like. Yeah. Are neds little girls all grown up now. I guess. Yeah. She does a. What is it the RV gambit from independence day? Right. Yeah. Trying to sleep with her before they all, you know, potentially die. Who knows what he'll be around tomorrow? I do feel like don't you think that's in Arias character? Like her kind of adventuresome streak. Fuck it. This is a new experience. If I die tomorrow. Why not sure a good looking guy? I've known him a long while. He's a he's a good guy. I just know if I were injury. I be checking for leeches, right? Yeah. I'd be looking right. She put the leeches. I know how this goes. Right. I when she was questioned about how many women he's been with. I'm mike. They're not going to get not total. He's no ways of virgin and three's a good like three is the right number for injury. I think his it. Yeah. What if seventeen that's too many? That's too many are you slash shaving Guinea, right? I'm just saying gingery is not that on the street. Steal. There's not not to do. But swing your hammer or swing your hammer. Highly my point he's got to swing that hammer. He can't be busy swinging his hammer if he's going to get good at swinging his hammer, you know, what I'm saying. All right. I don't know. I don't even know what I'm saying. Six out of seven Guindy's agree. Three is the right number. Yeah. That that seven again, there is a real real corker. I couldn't read the reaction or sort of decipher the expression on his face. The the can't even call it the morning after but when she snuck out of bed there. Yeah. I couldn't quite tell what was going through her head. She's like hoof really regretting this at this guy. He looks like. Just been in that Ford's poor Christian bale. What have I done injury smell like at this point? It's been blacksmith non stop for like two days dragging glass. What did you think that the on stuff because that was the one thing that I'm not like when he came to court and pledged this winter fell and Santa gave him a big hug like, okay? Maybe. And then he'd he pledges to defend him in his iron born going to defend the fin praying for the night king and the gods would I'm like, I don't I don't feel about that. Like, if you're if if it comes down, the you you and your twenty dudes versus tonight king everyone's fucked man like, yeah. But thanks for volunteer. And appreciate the no, I'm I'm kind of like, not real. I'm not understanding exactly. Why was such an emotional moment for Santa? I mean, she did like like theon did kinda protector and help her escape from her the hellish torment that was winter fell for her. So. Off. The seventy foot deep drifts outside winter Ville. Yeah. Miraculously survived. But no. And they showed them kind of like catching up later like during that really nice montage pod was singing about the Ginnie old stones ghost hottest surprisingly. Good singer. Yeah, they talked about that in the behind the scenes like this guy who plays pot. I forget his name as a really fine natural singing voice. And I was shocked duet between Braun and pod. There you go an amazing just reunion if they can reunite it halfway between king's landing and just sing their way. To serve throne room. And he just killer the pod the pod the ladies man with the crooning. And then you have if we're fighting Braun and sing to death. That'd be something. He I I love seeing pod. Teaching these fools to fight because he was these fools like a season ago. Seeing Brian kind of a satisfied over his progress and kind of Jamie Rian press that was really cool. And then I guess we talked about in passing. But it was a real moment when Jamie night at Bryn human. So so I feel like that this show renner's put the show ranters show ranters put their thumbs on these is of the scales of I got an Irish brogue there. They put the thumbs on the side of the Brin, Jamie shipping scale because torment came up like I'll night you ten times. Our Jamie's like oh. Yeah. Tonight or the only time that matters. Once Dong father mothers warrior, your night, first female night in west rose history. Probably sure I actually could swear to that. There might be some. Somebody. The full lore. But deservedly I'd say, yeah, she's she's done a standup job broke, the Valerian feeling the help of Jamie Lee. And Mr. do you think because I actually thought there was more kind of romantic tension there than I was even expecting? I was expecting this kind of the nearest kind of the wink to the debris and Jamie shippers. But I felt like the show owners are on my side. I feel like neither of them really knows what to make of it yet. Sure. They're the characters are not certain that. That's where this is going. But you know, they clearly have enormous respect for each other. They're also very inexperienced relationships. If you think about brands only ever loved like we talked about tragically a game, and and Jamie's only ever loved his sister who he's finally kind of found that she never really loved him back or lacing least not the way he did. So. Oh, we find out huge development. This episode is we know what the Nike wants because brand knows once right as long as brand lives. The there is the the chance to rekindle human humanity. Yeah. I mean, I mean more generally, I guess the king wants the long night a really really long night, right like forever. It wasn't clear to me. Like why killing the three eyed raven would guarantee that more than like if like if only brand was left in the world, then humanities still super fucked? And you're gonna have any Turner nights maybe with Nike around. Yeah. We found that confirmation are is weapon is indeed like what a lot of people speculated just a dragon tip steer St. dragon steel track dragon, glass tips, rather speier staff kind of thing. None of the more exotic options like. You don't think it's going to seventy think will pop off and be significant. But I we'll see I gotta go back and look at that drawing again because it could just be one of those diagrams that shows like zoom in of what she wants the tip of this thing to look like, and then like some kind of length or something, but I don't know I need to take a look we got got like three seconds of go CGI time is that that's the double d that's all we're going to get soak it up, no. That would be hilarious. If that's the last we ever see ghost. But I think what they're doing is setting up. Hey, he's going to be important excited getting sign you mentally important. They're not gonna have fucking ghost statues after the the war's over. But he's he's going to have some role to play in the battle winner fell. The like we talked about a part of it. But the collection that I like to call the fireplace the play scenes where you see all these characters coming in like some of them are not wanting to drink, but they all kind of in up, and it's kind of like all of our favorite characters that are big heroic characters. It's like everybody except for like Janney Cheney John Danny are there. I thought that was really cool. I I really liked the warmth of the lighting. And it's the last time we're going to see all these people kind of relaxed and happy together because surely someone in this like lots of these people in this room are going to die. And that's the thing. I I realized as I was watching is like I don't why couldn't pick any of these people. I'm like embed ambivalent about their deaths. I think really anybody is is kind of in jeopardy at this point. And that's why this is such a good episode because it sort of gives, you know reasonable conclusions to a lot of the loosens. That now say, hey, anybody could die during this battle. But as Tyrian points, I think we all may live. Thought that was I mean, that's kind of like the bittersweet tone. They're going for is we're probably going to die. Hey, we might live and he lays out this. Like, hey, we have been through a lot of improbable situations together in apart and we've all survived. They get to this part in a game surviving just as likely as not so. I don't know if those are just as likely, but they're all they're both possibilities is nicely. Enjoy. Because a lot of people saying, oh, the one meeting we get last week was door and leanna. I like that. Okay. Talking about the, you know, he's trying to get her to go down to the crypts and think about the family, and she's like fuck that. I'm want to fight for the north and fight for winter filled. Same as you him getting the Tara family. Br blade was pretty cool. Surger back with Valerian steel blue. I think we've discussed that as a possibility probably joke though. But no, we made a real prediction that there will be like they'll shuffle things around. And maybe John we'll get the tardy blade or maybe drawn. We'll get one of the ice blades. Got split in half and everybody it'll all go around everybody who had learned sword end up with. But I think Joel end up with log law because I think John why wouldn't you take one of the ice variance? You know, that seems like it'd be all the Valerian steel swords melting down and make an even bigger version of its final fantasy style throwing a couple of the blades dire. And thrown wise that it starting new bastard name called cloud. He'll be John cloud cloud. And then may not tell you what remained Djawadi really pulled out the stops. When the night king and his army took the field. And there's these lion. These really creepy dudes with ice spears and swords and the music was really intense, and they showed I liked how the the truth their word with their interview last week. The designers intro were continuing to evolve that we saw the blue tiles representing the armies of the dead flipping ominously towards winter Phil and winter fell for its part. I think that turned over a couple of terrain. Dell's show like the different defensive works the spears, and there's a couple of collapsible bridges that turned into like fortifications, and they're making moats, and yeah, they did a really good scene. I thought they did a really good job of laying out kind of the battle in that map seen. We don't know exactly what the plan is. But we know they're going to try to like bait with the brand. And they've got like, you know, you can't fight this army directly. So looks like they're trying to funnel them in like kills zones and struck them and they're going to try to kill the night king in one blow and wipe out the rest of the army. The did will that they they successfully do that. Will that feel anticlimactic? Do you think? No, I don't think. So because I think the true climax of this series is the battle between humans, which is Danny and John area all them. So I don't think you'll feel anticlimactic. But I will say I I didn't see and maybe he was there. But I did not see the night king actual end of this episode. I saw a hell of a lot of white walkers. Right. But no night king. No dragon. A lot of people have speculated that night kings going to be on the back of that dragon headed toward king's landing. This is a famed more likely now. Yeah, we'll figure it could be just really cagey, and they know that they wanna leave it until next week to see exactly how the battles going to be joined but next week the rumble at winter fell is going to go down with her part. Three winter fell worrier is going to be next week. Do you have anything else? You wanna say about this on the instant take? There were two scenes. So normally I'm sort of annoyed by this storytelling shortcut or this like opiate get me out of the scene shortcut, which is which is it happened both in the scene with Sonya, and Danny which actually like a lot. And then also at the very end of this. When John is telling Danny who who really is. They kind interrupt the conversation a pivotal point. Right. And and you can kind of tell the scene Wisconsin, Danny? I really liked because you know, what, Dan. He's thinking. Right, right. I don't have a good outcome for you. If you want to rule the north independent of me. Sorry, Santa which I don't quite understand. But sure. Yeah. I think it, you know, it was annoying. But also nice and clever for them to get out of that scene before she actually is forced into an answer. They also do it at the end. I think that was actually perfect because we don't need to deal with the ramifications of that until the bigger threat is dealt with. And I think it actually leaves it to fester a little bit. And will it interfere at all with their ability to do the thing? They're trying to do stopping the night king. Yeah. It's not bad. I I was really hoping that they lean on the fact that like this is something that John and Danny both have convinced people of not something that you're going to stir up in the between themselves. And I'm like, I was kinda felt frustrated me to watch John do this. But but John never gets a chance to state his opinion on on how he feels about being a rightful heir. Right. So they could have he could have he had guys wanna before I dropped this thing. Heavy just wanted to let you know. No, it doesn't matter as a matter chain. Chain change, you're still Queen. I just want you to know that. Because like it's not like it's on precedent for people to abdicate the throne to somebody else. That's got not a strong of a claim. But for whatever reason, you know, people get passed over. I did notice they were calling him more of the north then. Yes, that's what he's referred to Danny. So I guess he's no longer king of the north. I don't his dad's position. Well, I mean. Yeah. I mean, that's that's like leanna said last episode. Well, I don't know what to call. I don't know what you are now. Well, now, we know what Danny thinks he is which is just a warden. The the Lord parent implies that she also thinks winter fell are the north. I guess is gonna be under a rule, right? Also means what's like like what? Sands the lady of winter Phil what does that even mean? Yeah. So it's a lot to sort out. It's a big political situation right before they have to fight in unison all together, which is going to be. I wonder if there's going to there's not any like rivalries on the battlefield because if you're doing petty shit between the living and the dead attacking. Fuck man, you're gonna time for that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, one other one the highlight is I thought the seems a little girl who won the fight in Davos. Yeah. That girls like right at the same age as serene was and she's got like the facial scarring. The had like, and you could see that. He was just like, oh, my God is ghost ghost of this girl. I thought that was a really really nice scene, and he played it. Very well. Yeah. A couple of where they're doing pretty obvious. Call backs to that kind of stuff very this episode very nostalgic for season like when they recall in Sam, and like remember when I first came the winter fell on a fuck up. I was and now I'm a bad ass white Walker killing in Jamie, like finishing Tyrians season to die like a lot of good stuff actually Sansa sort of calling back to rob being idiot. Right. Like men do stupid things when they're in love and they're easily manipulated, Robin. And nutshell it is anything else when talk about no, no, I'm looking forward to watching this. A couple more times and doing the Tuesday podcast have the Tuesday podcast. We are going to flip things into instant talk mode right now, if you are not a club member that means it's the instant take episode is closing is coming to an end. Like, we said we Tuesday if you want to join in our instant talk podcast where you can join us in our YouTube studio and chat with us and ask questions and make comments all you gotta do is go to club dot com or running a twenty five percent off annual membership sale right now for new renewing members club up all dot com.

John Danny Jamie HBO king Sanza Santa Braun leanna Jamie Lee Tyrian Ron Wwl president Ford Nike Davos YouTube Jamie Rian Wisconsin Guindy
Listen To Your Body with Danielle Walker

Forked Up: A Thug Kitchen Podcast

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Listen To Your Body with Danielle Walker

"Thank you. For listening to this podcast one production available on apple podcasts and podcast one. Hi fashion lime high this Easter I'm on the hunt for eggs for new styles. My family can wear to brunch. Gets old navy old navy. Yup. Right now, get a huge fifty percents off your entire purchase in store. Everything you need like dresses polo shirts as fifty percents off fifty percent off. You must be hiding something. Dresses started just twelve dollars for women ten dollars for girls, but he's just just three days away. Then how to it? It's in stores only don't tell the Easter bunny. Hurry in for fifty percents off your entire purchase in stores. Only now at old navy valid fourteen to four twenty in stores only excludes install clearance, gift cards, registering items, jewelry, today, only and today only deals. Podcast. One presents four up a thug kitchen podcast, the show that is does food politics and pop culture all while trying to give a fuck and now for your host, Michelle Davis and Matt Holloway. Welcome to forked up your go-to podcast for all things capitalism comedy and chocolate chip cookies. I am Holloway. And I'm Michelle Davis today. We're talking hut. Coco's origin stories keeping food out of politics and our country apparently spoiler again you and the split won't Trump. I won't interrupt. I'm sorry. And just how unnatural the term natural is later. We're joined by Daniel Walker. The three times New York Times bestselling author of the cookbook series against all grain. We talked to her about tuning out all the bullshit. And how the fuck she keeps like killing it in the cookbook, Rome. She is all over the charts. Genucel stay out of our territory. Stay tuned. You're about to get up shopping knows knives. Its fourth out of the kitchen podcast. What's up show? Nothing much. Are you watching game with Ron's? I had to stop watching it after what's is bucket. Got his eyes gouged out. I could be any episode like honestly, the the with the sandstone the mountain. Yeah. Mountain couch that guys is because he was so sexy, and he was such a great addition in his wife was there screaming, and I was like, you know, what the that's it for you. I couldn't I read all the articles. So I have a jerk kind of keeping keeping up. But I was just like I can't it didn't suit my current level of depression to watch people get yours like that. That's definitely been some shows that I've watched when I'm like in a pit of despair. And I'm like this is not good for my site. I you know, I was like I love the intrigue. I love the backstabbing, but I could really do with less torch. Tre porn, get that. I only ask because so it just came back. Oh, I'm well. Every all the spoilers. Yeah. So everyone's watching it. No one's talking about. How a Sanza stark is like the only one who brings logic to the whole marching army thing that they goes not a spoiler. They go out. And this is not a spoiler. They go back to winter fell with the whole fucking army and the dragons and Santa's like cool. How are we going to feed all these people? I mean what a refreshing. I was. I was like fuck. Yes. Santa. Yeah. That would be my first question. Where's the food at who's? Who's fucking are out there? There's two dragons. Yeah. I mean, we often get stuck in the logistics. We're like, okay. So you're telling me there's one toilet. That's a real detailed though. Like for real forty five people. I'm not going. Are you gonna are you gonna fight a war without fuel? You know what I mean? I mean, this is a problem that has downed many an army and imaginary ones are no exception. So that one thing about that episode is no one's talking about it. I'm tired of Santa. I'm in her corner. Where's the food? You stanza for Santa stance. Speaking of historic battles. Like, what are you got this week in history? For me, I'm keeping the thread going of kind of like icon food brands that we now know and doing a little origin story. You're history segment is turning to obituaries. For me. You know, I thought I was pretty well-versed in the origins of a lot of, you know, American popular foods and the more. I've been researching the section of the pod warm like I did not know that it's a lot of stuff that we didn't know that we try to put into digestible format for the audience. And if I think it's interesting, and I didn't know like I think maybe y'all would enjoy that too. So please give us feedback. There have been people who were like, I feel smarter listening apocalypse, Mike. I'm an idiot. Don't listen to me. Part is researched. Everything else is hot hot takes. So the inventor of Swiss Miss the instant chocolate hot chocolate packets that we've all had passed away last month at the age of one hundred and one jam. Yeah. So chocolate is fine. That's my takeaway. He's obituary ran this month in the New York Times. So that's I'm including it this week and food has been because we're a little bit late by history. Was so interesting that I really thought we had to include it. Okay. So his name is Charles Albert Santa. And he was born on November ninth in nineteen seventeen in Philadelphia to Anthony, Ana Santa, Ana Santa. Julia. Julia. Anna santa. Yeah. I, you know, I think if it wasn't seventeen she wouldn't have taken her husband's last name for obvious reasons. That's rough. Yeah. But his father had arrived from Sicily to live with his aunt New York when he was thirteen so Charles's dad came over when he was thirteen years old from Italy and his mom also immigrated from Italy, this is like the godfather starts. Yeah. Exactly. So Charlotte is the son of immigrants from Italy. And his father was a super smart guy and hustler and he ended up making a big name for himself in the dairy industry in the eastern US by the time Charles was born. So Charleston's dad Anthony was able to put his kids through college, which is quite the achievement American immigration dreams. Yeah. That's the story. You know that all of us have been sold and it happened to Charles. So he got a degree from the university of Wisconsin. And then he joined the navy where he oversaw the construction of submarines and he served at Pearl Harbor, and he helped direct all the repairs needed. After the attack there. So Charles already had an a very impressive resume. You know, was that Pearl Harbor. He helped restore all the stuff, but he wasn't not done. All right. So after he left the navy as Lieutenant Commander after World War two's over his dad roped him into joining the family business. Classic dad move. All right because you don't super proud. He's like a human from Italy sent you to college now built this fucking business. Like you come here. You know, work your. Yeah. So was called sanitary, and that's all the other brothers work there. And it was in Madison, Wisconsin. Okay. That charles. He was a fucking smarty fans just like his dad, and he developed a way to produce millions of individual packets of powdered coffee Creamer for American troops during the Korean war. And he got his family this huge business contract with the US military. That's interesting. So he's like he's taken two worlds that he knows and sort of intertwining them, exactly. And he had got an engineering degree at the university of Wisconsin smart. Yes. So he figured out all the stuff and. Like what a good practical application. Be like dad final come work for you. But I'm going to innovate this shit. Any sure did so but the contract stipulated that his family's company would be penalized. If the orders were under filled because I guess that was a problem, you know, during wartime. So the company had to produce a bunch of extra products sands. It would be like where the packets. We gotta get these people cocoa. Yeah. Well, this was just the powdered milk coffee cream. So he's not even we're not even at the cocoa to wait for it has got a fucking resume. Yeah. Sure. Oh, gosh. Yeah. No. It's crazy. Okay. So they're making all this extra product to make sure that they don't fold on drugs. Yeah. And the army wouldn't use any of the overstock product on future orders that was another simulation the contract. Yeah. They're just being a little high maintenance. But you know, you get to do that. When you're the biggest fucking order anybody's ever gotten. Was it perishable? Yeah. I mean, it had a long shelf life, obviously because it was going to the military, but it was a parachute will product eventually. So Charles didn't want it sitting around going to waste and costing his family money. 'cause you know, he's a good son. Okay. So he was thinking he's I thought this would make hot cocoa even better because you know, he lives in Wisconsin. He's cold. Okay. So he's earn experimenting on his show shop and his family's kitchen, and he'd make his kids and all their friends like below taste testers. Like, do you like aid? You like do g like where we do. Yeah. Recipe toasts are books. So you went through his family's cookbook, and like figured out the proportions of Creamer sugar cocoa and vanilla that everybody likes. Okay. And it was a huge hit. And I it was sold to businesses and airlines like people on the go kind of so many customers were just stealing it that he decided to take it into stores. Okay. Complement of a product. Right. Yeah. Okay. So Swiss Miss introduced nineteen sixty one and was the first powdered hot cocoa product. That could be made with water instead of milk, interesting guy. So it was a lot more Ford -able for people and people on the go, and it's like just a fun treat. So he called it Swiss Miss because it was supposed to be reminiscent of like the kind of cows. It was from Switzerland snow for their dairy industry. But it's from the US from good Wisconsin veteran so in nineteen sixty three and he finally got the patent for the product of making this nonfat dry milk powder that went into all the Swiss Miss packets and all the knockoffs possible. Okay. And then four years later, the whole brand was sold to Beatrice foods. And that was then bought in nineteen ninety by conagra that estimates. It sells more than fifty million boxes of Swiss Miss every year annually in a year in a year shit boxes, that's up. It was all the boxes. Sock says today, so Charles took his dad's little dairy business. Okay. Through a bunch of know-how and like good, military like knowledge. Into this giant company, and we've all had this powdered hot chocolate or I used to just pour it in my mouth. Oh, that's. And I just like and like mouth pudding off mud. But then my mom would come home because I wasn't not supposed to be doing. Come home and show where you're. Coughing up. Does. This is another great example of what immigrants bring two countries. That's what I like Swiss mass as the product of a child of immigrants and immigrant family business that went onto become this huge titan of American identity. All of us have had instant hot cocoa may with water, and it wouldn't have been possible. If we didn't let people come into this country and just because you are the child of immigrants like so many of us are doesn't mean you're not gonna fuck and change the game. Part of it. Yeah. Well, that's a great transition into my story, which is not as. Charles out, Charles Sanga. Yes. Apart a little of your instant hot cocoa. Next time. You're partaking Acas. He's keeping you warm and he did his daddy. So proud. Speaking of immigration. Yes, you remember what was it like a week ago when Trump was threatening to close down the US Mexico border. You had to be talked out of it. So stupid. But yeah, yeah. I remember that it was like two weeks ago or something. Well, if he did close down the border. I mean, would you still a huge possibility? The man there's half a million people that go between the border legally everyday for work. You know? So it would interrupt a lot of industries one small reason. But significant one that I want to mention is avocado. So according to Reuters, America would run out of avocados and just three weeks if President Trump would completely closed down the US Mexico border unacceptable. Steve Barnard president and chief executive of the massive of KADO distributor in grower mission. Produce says, quote, you couldn't pick a worse time of year because Mexico supplies virtually one hundred percent of the Africa. Does in the US right now, California just started to harvest, but they have very small crop this year because of all of our rains and fires and shit. Yup. So so there you go give book borders open. If you want. Yeah. Yeah. Hake walk. Yeah. Close the borders. I guess and you hate yourself. But you know, we as Californians we live in a place that used to be part of Mexico. Like, I feel like Americans forget how much of this country. People used to be fucking Mexican people talk about Mexico and Canada. Like, there are neighbors. I see them more as our family, especially like, you're saying California was Mexican. So it was Texas. Yeah. My dad has old map of Texas. The huge portions of it were. Like so borders are very it's sit together. It's fucking silly. We want do we want naked toast in this country? I don't fuck and think style. Yeah. You don't want some negative. You want some bummer burritos? Oh, yeah. You want to set sandwich? Hell, no. Do you have a condos coming? That's right. That's right. And onto some news that y'all should really know by now, but I'm gonna fucking repeat myself to this. We talk about this in our first book and it bears repeating because people are not hearing it natural means nothing and y'all to know that by now we talked about those. Let's let's talk about some more. 'cause y'all haven't learned checks. It's important because maybe maybe, you know, but your mom don't know. All right. So we got to spread the word a survey just came out proving that we're all trying to eat healthier and make better choices. But the companies are making that shit hard as hell. The survey found that seventy three percent of people said they seek out food labeled with the word natural, despite the fact that. The term natural has almost no standards than match to it is not listening. Okay. Urvashi Reagan who directs the consumer safety and sustainability group for consumer reports. Who did the survey says quote customers think that for processed foods natural means that it has no pesticides? No, artificial ingredients. No, artificial processing and nearly half of the people questioned think that that is a verified label, and it is it's not it's not at all. I've even seen some brands of like it looks like the organic label, but it says natural so they're trying to create their own stamp. Yeah. You know, it's super confusing for consumers, and there was also thing for a long time that companies would use the word organic in the name of the brand. So confused, it'd be like fuck ary. Yeah. Like, organic organic farms organic farms rice cakes and people like, oh, it's organic no, it's not vote. So do this shit anymore though. Yeah. So who doesn't want this term, natural regulated companies obvious. China dollar from consumers who were confused. Yeah. So a lot of companies apparently argue that they have first amendment protection. Oh, yeah. That it's a freedom of speech issue. Okay. That's not what the first amendment. Look, your company create a product you profit off that you're not defending your shitty. Fucking opinion on Twitter. Yeah. That's the first amendment. You can say whatever dumb ass shit you want. That's the first amendment not a company. Megan a dollar confusing people by packaging exactly, and you know, the FDA's job is to stop mislabeling. So we're here for freedom of speech. Yes. Y'all need to keep food out of politics. Yeah. Imagine when you find out this whole branches of the whole branch. But yes, so they are you on first amendment grounds, which is clearly nonsense and is fucking ridiculous. So a recent lawsuit with Hormel, the meet people, don't, you know, the people who make that terrible chilly. It really shows how this practice like looks in action. So during litigation of this lawsuit. It was shown that the company's Hormel natural choice label uses the same hormone and antibiotic treated animals that Hormel uses in their other conventional hormone meat products like spam. But it's the sorts the same. But it's under the Hormel natural choice. Yeah. So it's like, it's like Doritos. And then like if they came up with like organic Doritos, then you found out the same. Seem like meat or whatever for more money. So you know, the natural choice label. Went along with an inflated price tag. Because people consumers thought they were paying a little bit more for better better product back. Same fucking the same exact fucking products. And while this is obviously shady is how it's entirely legal right now in the United States jerks. Okay. So like, we said the FDA has absolutely no guidelines for the term natural and only lightly enforces, the use of the term all natural. Okay. Meanwhile, the USDA defines natural do. With food out of politics, some sick of it. And meanwhile, the USDA defines natural as quote a product containing, no artificial ingredients or added color and his only minimally processed. Meaning it's processed in a manner that does not fundamentally alter the product. Okay. So that means that animals raised with warm owns and lots of antibiotics can still fall under the natural category. As can't Cheetos, and lemon flavored Oreos. The is. There's nothing natural lemon flavored or use sairy few people if anyone has ever gotten in trouble for using this labeling people should. Yeah. So natural all natural bullshit their own meaning thing. Okay. Certified organic with the USDA seal on it is what you're looking for that matter to you an agenda like not to like, maybe we'll post this on the website bit is that this is like the front matter of our first book. Yes. And we don't want people getting fooled into spending extra money extra hard. Earn money on products. That have no meaningful difference. You know? So a good way to get around. This is to read your fucking ingredients. I would even do a side by side. I would go get like they're normal. You'll be by the Brown packaging, 'cause they're like, oh, it's so for sure. I heard that look to see if organic is just in the name of the brand or saying, it says that uses organic ingredients, you know, like look for all that in before you go ahead and spend the extra four dollars on the products. Because most of the time is not a meaningful difference. And if it's coming down between buying organic produce, a no produce get fucking conventional produce whatever shook out that lawsuit with hormone, they loss Ohka. Yeah. But the judge reprimanded them for this. This usage, even though it was legal. But obviously, that's a precedent for taking other companies to task in court. So and again, this is just the the laws as they are right now, we the people will have the power to change that or to demand companies to do better. So fuck them for tricking us, and our parents and everybody else who just want to do a little bit better do better. Yeah. And us companies are making it easier. Yeah. So fuck them. I do have some good news this week. That's I know they last week. My story about horse racing was a bit of a bummer. Yeah. That's only face me around for the dog. This is a solo cast now. Just host. No, I do have some good news this week. So California might become the first state in the US to ban the dissection of animals and schools assembly Bill, fifteen eighty six otherwise known as replacing animals in science education or raise act encourages schools to adopt newer teaching methods such as three d computer modeling programs that teach biology to students that they're assuming schools have computers. Yeah. It was a lot of assumptions that being said, I support it. They got computers and they got three D computers. They got PlayStations up in that school. So every year millions of frogs pigs meek grasshoppers, earthworms rats, mice pigeons turtles and yes. Even cats and dogs. Hell no are killed for classroom. Dissection every year the animals are killed specifically for dissection purposes, and they don't die of natural causes. It's funny that you say that that was definitely ally. Oh, every teachers like they died a natural calls and worry about it. Now. It's one of those unexamined thoughts questioning. It's an authority figure question to chat. Why would she lied to me? But yeah. So I was doing some research on this. And I I guess it makes sense. But yeah, you simply wanna healthy animal to dissect. So there there's no damage. It's not like they're scraping cats up the highway, right? Yeah. You know, you're not gonna die suck like a flattened Kathy of. Yeah. Roadkill? So this is also worth mentioning that formaldehyde which is used to preserve the animals for dissection, and humans is a is a known carcinogen that is listed as a toxic substance under California's prop sixty five. So we're exposing. Let's fun. I don't know. Somebody dare somebody to look at every single. Oh for sure time. You're just looking to hide. I dissect it, a frog and a cow's. I when I was in school both were discussing. I couldn't tell you Jack shit of what I learned. Did you have to dissect anything? Yeah, they did frogs. And then some kids did pig. Fetuses weird. Yeah. But. What in what purpose? I feel like I remember it happening around me. But me not participating. And I I told you I opted out when you ask me this earlier. But I think what I did was paired with a friend who was gross. I wanted to do the whole thing. I didn't even know you could opt out because I was obviously in Texas. Yeah. I know it see the thing is like when they roll out these dead animals. There's always one kid gets nauseous faint. There's always a kid feigns when kid cries probably to kid cries. I think now. Yeah. Like, yeah. It's not it's not a good experience for anybody animals included. So why we yeah, that's not even a vegan shit. That's just like high schools hard. Not do. I will say that we had to dissect and out pellet, which I thought was kind of tight middle school. So that's like the things that else. Throw up owes it. Does it? They throw up. Yeah. They throw ALP oop now. They throw it up because they can't just a second. Owl hairball. Yeah. On car. But then it has like Bill body of a whole fucking mouse in it. Yeah. So exactly you had to take it apart. And then there'd be a bunch of like rodent bones in there. I guess that makes sense it can't digest Hassett. So and then you have to like reassemble the bones figure out what kind of rodent date. Spoiler alert. It's all mice throw him, mice bones. This is this makes a point that like this is a super arcane way of learning biology had even forgotten that this was a thing until I saw this proposition. And I don't know like the age of the internet with like we have virtual reality. We have augmented reality. We have computers in PlayStations costume needs to catch up to pornography. Right. If we have on mentored reality porn, then let's put that in biology class like a lot. The technology. Not the point these kids need to be learning. Something like about biology, and I don't know that having a dead animal in front of them. I don't remember Jack shit about what the animal's. I dissect it. Yeah, it doesn't really. I mean, I think it was when we were learning, you know, general human biology, but that doesn't really translate to a frog and barely do a pig. Fetus, how useful is this like by keeping animals in the class? There's more important things. We should be learning in biology to the use of the human body like how diet and exercise effective, especially, you know. No, I didn't learn that tolls into my thirties. To do some fucking taxes. They're like let's not for in biology class. Why don't we teach kids about their own bodies and like venereal diseases and like for real girls have three holes another known? Another known. I blew an adult man's mind. Not too long ago. There was a guy went to high school with who refused to believe the girls. Pooped what we absorb the poo. And that's where law from all of the girls in math class where like David what the fuck I'm gonna go. Take a shit right now. So just like information like that that everybody needs to know. I do feel like, yeah, you're right. This is antiquated archaic and not wise use of teaching students something about this isn't this can't be cheap. Either did not get into the cost. This was kind of a bummer to research. So I just researched the Bill not too much about. Doc ground of dissecting animals cost. But let's teach kids how to do their fucking taxes how to create a budget and what happens if you don't back it up wrap. It up goes and goes up three holes and double bell. You dick. When we get back. We are with our guest today who is a pioneer of eating all different kinds of grains, the lovely and talented Daniel Walker. Choose a great verse. We've very and go from the bay what us so check it out. We'll be right back. We'll be back in a moment. With more forked up a thug kitchen podcast. Hi, it's Jamie, progressive's number one number two employee. Leave a message at the hey, Jamie. It's me, Jamie. This is your daily pep talk. I know it's been rough going ever since people found out about your Capella group mad harmony, but you will bounce back. I mean, you're the guy always helping people find coverage options with the name your price tool. It should be you giving me the pep talk. Now get out there, hit that high note, and take mad harmony all the way to nationals this year. Sorry, it's pitchy. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Stay tuned for sixty seconds of AP news headlines right after this podcast and get enough thug kitchen, then take a listen to any podcast ones. Other fantastic food shows celebrity chef and top chef favorite, Richard blaze. Takes you behind the scenes at the food world every two they were starving for attention. And and restaurant were Rick Bayless and food journalist Steve Dolinsky team of every Wednesday to travel the globe while tackling food trends on the feed checkout starving for attention and the feed every week on podcast one or wherever you. Get your favorite podcasts. Fifty years April. Twentieth has held a special significance. Dude, you even know. For twenty holidays, celebrating do it's more than just a date on the calendar. It's a holiday. That's right. It is. And it should be celebrated. Yes, it's a yearly ritual that brings us together to celebrate cannabis and all the ways it improves our lives and gives us a reason to laugh as children certain times of day. Sometimes you just need to go goofy. And this year it gets even better thanks to the new normal. The time for cannabis is now do. Produce. You'll dude like is you don't have to wait for four twenty. In fact, at men men they've already started celebrating and you can too of sober to the booth. The real cop massive hit starting April seventeenth shop at any men men cannabis retail store nationwide and the more you spend the more you'll save this is your chance to try new brands and stuff up on your favorites. So what are some of your favorites? Michelle right now. I am enjoying the Sunday goods. Yeah. Those are nice. The disposable vape pens. Yes. They so like a couple of other brands, they have the, you know, the different categories. There's relief. There's the sleep one. There's the happy one which I really enjoy because it's just let's hone in on the kind of day you want to have their. Like kiva dark chocolate bars. That's Mattie nighttime. And of course, we're still loving our watermelon. Gumy's rum smokey's. Oh, don't buy those guys. They're out. They're out of stock. You don't go to madman. And that's just the beginning. There's some big surprises still to come. So visit men men dot com for more information and to find amendments during your you. And there's even more to celebrate we're bringing health and wellness to the sunshine state. Keep an eye out for men men stores opening soon in Florida carbon for Florida. Oh, what in Florida needs to chill out, Florida? They need this or a man needs to go to med men and all the old people. Yeah. Granted wants wants them CBD. I am tired of being the mule for old people in my lighter. God bless you men. All right again. Visit men men dot com for the details at M E D E N dot com. Terms and conditions apply. Keep out of reach of children for use only by adults twenty one years of age or older. Welcome back to fort up. A thug kitchen podcast. Our guest today is Danielle Walker. She is a three times New York Times bestselling author of the cookbook series against all grain because I'm familiar within yell. She was diagnosed with an autoimmune disease when she was twenty two years old. And she realized she needed to make some dietary changes because she was suffering. So she moved grain lactose legumes from her diet. And she started a blog to help others who were suffering in a similar way. And she is killing it because not only did she find these this niche market of people who needed help. She's also an amazing cock so with her acquired culinary skulls love for food and an equal love of journalism. She became a source of hope for other suffering from. Types of diseases and allergies and her new book just dropped into somber. So please, welcome Jinya. Walker is up we shop an A-plus track. Why don't we we have enough episodes? Another other. I feel like we need like us on board. So I can just do hit. I gotta do. I do I gotta do drops or have mercy. Anyway, welcome. Thank you. There should be a larger applause, okay? Okay. Next time next. You're going to revamp your podcast today. She's very mellow reception. So like the book signings you've been doing you're on tour right now. Your your fourth book dropped in December. Yeah. I just finished are pretty much so go. Yeah. Thankfully. Yeah. Still doing promotional tour, but I guess not not book signing type tours go. It was so funny. We were chatting right before we got on air, and I was telling her I was like I felt like already knew her as our books all came out around the same time. And so when we are on tour she was either right before us at locations or right after. On the New York was your first one. Yeah. And we were the year right behind you. Yeah. I know I feel like every time. I checked the timeless which you know. I mean, maybe I'm the only one that's compulsive. As for every week. Mostly authors, only people that fucking PR. Kinds of hook book, author is the ones who check their Amazon and New York Times like sales rank all the time and fucking liars. Right. I'm a I'm a bestseller. Because when I did pre-order it became a vessel on some random category as but Amazon categories can we talk about that they your book so for of you ever mislabeled. Yeah. You ever fall under vegan gluten free. You know? I don't think because I'm not going to have a lot of meat. And so somehow like in a sub genre of like paleo is not. Yeah. Like one of. Jerusalem. One of those books is somehow under vegan to on Amazon, which it's not that which is very veggie like heavy. Yeah. Yeah. My celebrations book is very often ranked number one in Jewish holidays. Oh interests that maybe that's one of the I I mean, I don't know. It's a holiday book. There. I'm like, well, you know. On is its own beast. It is base. But I do have a top one hundred cookbook bookmark on my homepage. You gotta check acidly check. So, but yes, all that to say has always saw your boat. Yeah. Up there like on the times, you know with with mine, and I think you're always above me. Oh, I know. But that's how I I came across you just like what is this kitchen book? Yes, keeps hitting the list. I should've had the same reaction. Yeah. I mean, when you're first book came out in twenty thirteen at absolutely pool. Do like what was that experience like for you like were you were you kind of hoping that was what was going to happen? Did you feel prepared for it or no it was no I went into it having very low expectations. I think I remember telling my husband. I just hope it sells fifteen thousand copies. We had the exact same conversation. We're like, you know, what we're gonna sell maybe ten thousand books. We'll go back to our day jobs, and what a hilarious story. This will have been this weird part of our lives. I didn't know at the time load. That wasn't a goal. And then once I hit it. I was like or how I need more. Yeah. No. I remember just being like, oh, it's hopefully it'll sell a little bit. And I also thought I would only right one which. Yeah. Probably I'm assuming you guys did to this is a one and done thing. I'm never going to write another one put everything into it. And then I just remember being like, well, if it doesn't sell it'll just be really fun to like pass onto my kids and the fifteen years from now you'd like budge wrote a. No, I had no expectations. I was blown away. It was surreal. I did not expect it to do what it did. And I was just happy to hear that it was helping people and that of my goal, but I didn't realize there was such a market for it. I bet neither did the publisher. I don't well that particular publisher really loved to get onto trend. And so he also like killed us. Basically, if I make not making us, I don't make him sound that bad because I could have said, no. But he published books in a one year period. So like from signing contract getting on shelves, and it was so as nuts joke that. Yeah. Such a fast pace, but his whole strategy was like I see this trend and at that point it was paleo, and I'm gonna just push a ton of books out in that category. And get them on before the trend has gone. Yeah. And he capitalized on it. And so he publisher had like I think four or five books on the times at any given time. Crazy. Yeah. It was pretty nut. So right now, he's publishing lots of Kito book. Oh, there you go. That is it. Yup. Did you get any push back on the title against all green from them? They wanted me to have like paleo loud and proud because I thought it was so catchy. But I was like, oh you immediately. Remember it? But then I was like I wonder if because it has against right like as a negative negative if publishers there, they can't always be that creative assurance of like titling and over the different problem with us. We're like we can't say the word Asser shit next the food. Is that your role that's pretty much only rules. I wonder if they gave her any crab. No, no. So it's funny. Well, that was my blog name because I thought I was only going to do one. It was like self titled. I was like let's just put it out. That's my brand was but they wanted me to have something about paleo in the title because that was what was trending which and I didn't wanna put myself in that corner. So it's very very small in the subtitle fought against it. And I felt like grain free at least a little bit more Brian. But now, my my newest book doesn't have against all grain in the title. So I've been like slowly moving away from that brand. And because I started to see it more as negative. I didn't back then I thought it was catchy. It was like against the grain. But it is very catchy too. But I can see how you know as your brand evolves. And the things you the food you can tolerate a little bit over time. Like, of course, you're going to man, you can't do the same. They know. You came to paleo or gluten free like. Great. Well, yeah. So grain free and dairy free. But gluten free. I liked. I liked kind of move that way. Now, I'm like more people understand what that is. But I had an autoimmune disease and pretty much. Well, not pretty much nearly lost my life four or five times in the hospital once over and Africa, and none of the medications are working, and they were making me worse. Quite honestly, I had to take a medical leave for my job and could barely walk up. A flight of stairs. And finally found that diet could help on the internet. And none of my doctors talked to me about it because they didn't shoot to honestly how it came to veganism. That is it. I was in my twenties. I had really bad like indigestion. I wake up in the middle of night like vomit. Yeah. And it was still just diet. My doctor. They would just like now, here's some pills that I'm like cool. So I take these like how often just and they're like, no, you just take them. Now, those pills and all my money thirtieth fucked up. Yeah. Twenty two. Yeah. Very much like you start reading on the internet and people who had the same symptoms. I. That's where I found. There wasn't social media back then so I was reading through all these medical chat boards of each of the had the same thing. And they're like, I do this. And I do this. And I'll never forget like underneath their comments. You had like this bio thing, and I have this. And here's what I take like they're like, I don't know like their credentials, but nobody was actually medical professional. But that was more comforting to me. I was like all right. Well, fill them out a loan. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, these real people who actually have this are having better symptoms by eating differently. And so the doctors don't actually have the disease. I have they just know what they know from studies and from their books, and so I'm like, I'm going to try this one I think probably especially being a younger woman on the medical establishment could be a little dismissive. We talk about like, physical pain and all that stuff. It's always so frustrating when I was in my early twenties because Dr like this hurts they're like, oh, okay. Well, let's take this on like what if my boyfriend came in here, you guys would give him like a fucking shot and put them on a gurney. Before surgery. When I come into like a sweetheart put a band aid. Fine. A head cold you fine. Just like they had me on one hundred milligrams of prednisone steroid at one point. It's a steroid anti minutes in an anti inflammatory drug. But, but it most your whole mine, and yes, so and they never told me about side effects. Most people are on it for like ten milligrams. And I was on one hundred should I mean, I was a crazy person. I wasn't sleeping. My hair was falling out like could barely walk had ninety year old joint puffy face up like in a in a very distinct. Yeah, I was gonna say like it's not like some vein Mike twenty two but at the same time. Yeah. I was like newly married twenty two and my face look like a chipmunk my wife, my body was like skeletal 'cause I couldn't keep any weight on. I was just so sick. And they just basically wrote those prescriptions and didn't say anything about what they might cause. It was just like here. Just take those than. So I yeah. Living on just a bag of Doritos for all they knew you know, what I mean? Ask me what I'm eating shit. They didn't know I would ask all the time. And they almost like they had a script like every GI doctor that like studies, the gut. I they said diet doesn't cause it diet. Can't cure it and diet doesn't help it. And that was there's something wrong. You know? So I'm like, whatever it is. And everybody's different people respond better to begin them. We're not we're not converts which is trying to get people to eat more vegetables. And I would rather have more people. Eat more vegetables in their weekly routine. Right. Then convert you know, five people veganism sorry. And that's what your whole new book is about is that just like you love listen to your body. And then cook it in accordance yet. Right. That's kind of always been my mic philosophy is listening to your body and eating mindfully and not just eating and not like seeing the correlation between your symptoms. I think that's the thing. People just don't even think that it's late. So it's kind of always been that in like, this is what works best survey, you can try it. But you know, you might also want to explore all these other things, and you just have to watch what your body does when you change something. But I think so often people aren't starting from a place of wellness, right? So so hard for them to discern feeling good or just continuing to feel like shit and half what's normal daunting? Totally oh, and it is daunting, especially when you have a chronic illness. I did. And you're already so sick. I mean, I could barely get out of bed. Then to think about like trying to cook different things all the things that I know how to cook are much you like can't do a lifestyle change right now. I'm just trying to function trying to live. So have you get the motivation? Well, I mean, I stayed on some of the medications for some time just until I like actually could baseline enough. Yeah. But Donald ally went like, I did I did like whole grains. And then I went, you know, just like nothing white like white flour. And then I finally went gluten free. And then it was kind of the next step, and I really didn't commit one hundred percent until my oldest son was nine months old. And he was in. I was in the hospital, and he couldn't come see me in the hospital. And then I was bedridden for three months, and that was like the kind of turning point for me. I was like I had seen some improvement when I kinda stuck to it in the past. But I hadn't given one hundred percent. And so Finally, I was like, okay. I it's not just me anymore. I can't be selfish. There's a baby that needs me like survive when you were probably just getting to the point to where you were feeling like, you're. Back in your own body again after doing things so that wildcard wasn't. But that's true. No, actually with autoimmune diseases a lot the majority of people women that are pregnant feel better interests because your immune system kind of suppresses. So that it doesn't reject the baby. So I felt like a million bucks. And I ate never wanted. And. That child. I didn't realize that it would catch up to after. So now, I know and I noted be better. But yeah, I was like, oh, I'm cured. I was fine. And then he was born. And then I started to like, I just go to your pregnant. So that's one point. She's like just always be like you wanna raise twenty two. What do you think? Like, maybe some of the biggest misconceptions are about like a grain free diet because I feel like gluten gluten free anyways and veganism sort of get lumped together a lot they do whenever I search on yelp when I'm traveling for Luton free. It always gives me peaking girl names e VN. And then it's like, well this gluten-free puzzles. Was still want meeting. Anybody animal byproducts? I is the misconception. I think I think the biggest thing that I struggle with. And you guys probably are the same because you create recipes is that anything that's packaged and labeled as such for or grain free is just so full junk that a bunch of pillars. And I was like when I first went out when I switched I didn't know outta read ingredient lists, and I wasn't creating recipes at the time. And so I would go into the grocery store, and if it's set Luton free. I was like great give it to me. So I'm like eating doughnuts. And waffles in like all this stuff that I didn't even eat before. And it's filled with like shan't them. Foreign products and GMO, and I just so I had to really learn. So that's the thing that bugs me, the most is just how much the industry has jumped on it. And that they're not taking like the whole foods and doing it in Mike. I mean, there's a lot of great brands out there. Now, I will say that it's got quite a bit. But I that we'll put gluten free on anything in that doesn't mean that it's a helpful choice. Right. Health and gluten free. I have friends who are like on doing this gluten free thing. And I'm like, oh, you gotta like Celia ex. And they're like, no, I'm just like gluten free try I'm trying to eat healthier. And I'm like keeping that fucking package. Flagging look at all the shit on their like, whatever doodoo you might as well, go you to fucking cheeseburger. Much crap again, right? I'm like instead of all the process like pasta, just use some spaghetti squash. Or since you Kenya. Noodles. If you really want to be healthy, if you just don't want gluten fine. But like if you actually are wanting to change your lifestyle to be healthy. It's so package stuff. The gluten-free though is back to work at the grocery store know, some people were like, okay, I'm gonna make this this choice. But then they wouldn't actually know what it meant. Right. They would get upset when products they want us to buy weren't labeled gluten free. But I was like it's water. Yeah. Manny's manny's. I don't think they're not gonna label reading free. No one thinks there's gluten hair. She's like, well, how do I know? God damn I'll never I mean. 'cause I started when my first book came out that was really about the time that it was starting to cut gluten-free. Yes. Was starting to really take off mainstream twenty thirteen. Yes. I will never forget like walking through the grocery store and seeing a bag of potato chips that had like huge like, it's potatoes. Didn't have Wheaton it. Although now, I've learned like Pringles does have we in it. So maybe that was. It was like a thing with veganism been a Mike this product should be vegan. Why are you putting season? Right. Why is there milky thing of planners, just like roasted, peanuts and planes and had milk fat powder? Why why are we doing? I shouldn't have even looked at the Abelson. Jeff. I don't understand. I'm like, why do you need to put that in there? I don't get it. Yeah. So I would say that's probably the biggest most frustrating thing. I think more than anything, though, how much do you think the cookbook world in like the food scene in general has changed since your first book come out till now, man, it's more saturated for sure I just didn't think it was saturated in two thousand thirteen you know, it was starting to be. But when we make because I was a blogger to and I think those those two dozen twelve to fourteen I feel like we're kind of like the glory years of bogged book. Yes, it was like if you got a book deal from a blog most of them did really well, and now gosh, I just feel like anybody's given a book. Really, really bitchy. But I've gotten a lot you probably get stacks of book sent to you as well. And I just feel like a shitty books lately. That's what I was not tested. Well, they're just like, no photographs Typos, photographs the hate having to flip through the frontal who shot it. Yeah. You know? I'm just like, but you shoot all your book. So I shot my I I don't know. About up. I mean, it costs a lot of money photograph because I do. Recipe short events check. But it's so worth it for my sanity. I just I didn't know how to photograph when I wrote my first book. So I taught myself I bought a camera at never owned a camera and did it for the first two. But it was the least I mean, it was the least enjoyable part of the process, and I got it done. But no for the second or the third and fourth celebrations and the newest one I hired a team. I loved them. And I would never do it again. Sometimes I'll be like the penny pincher, maybe I should photograph, and it could save so much money in then my husband's like don't be dumb. Yeah. Exactly. Just just your. The first thing in your own happiness. Absolutely. And it's good because you already kind of set the visual blueprint J brand, you know yourself, and so people can really take that and run with when I'm on set. Yeah. Every time like they last the last week, we shot it at my house, which was great. So they were there every day. And I was there. And so, and I'm still I still have a hand in it. Yeah. That's something. And especially with the ingredients that I use because a lot of the food Silas, don't typically cook with wing home in flour and coconut flour. I like to be there to see that. It looks like it, should it doesn't look too healthy because I like my stuff to look normal. Yeah. And so I've there's been quite a few things where I'm like you've got to remake that doesn't like good. It needs to look like we don't have a different kind of. I. Yeah. Just because they're trying to eat healthy. But otherwise, though, it's been a lifesaver. I mean, and it gives me more gives you great content. So you're spending money on it. But you can put it all over social. And you know, so I think that's one of the reason your books have been so successful. Is that your food irrespective of somebody's dietary restrictions, or what have you your food looks really crave? -able like, and it looks like you'll be satiated by eating it. It's not just sometimes I see Zoodles on. I'm like, there's no way it'd be fucking full. Like, there's no way. Rented about it before most insulting shit. If you if I'm at a restaurant, and I see spaghetti on the menu, and you serve me Zoodles flip the fucking table. Now, what was for just wake regular wheat noodles because you can do that. Right. As long as long as Arkley. Yeah. It's the bait and switch John. That's all I'm saying. It's not spaghetti. Got it on a spaghetti. I'm expect. Yeah. I do a lot of air quotes book. So you might not like some of that. But. That's okay. But I don't call. I do air quotes. So that I'm not like claiming so in the new book, there's a refried beans. I can't do any legumes. So they're being so I do it's like eggplant and plantations and it actually tastes like genes. Yeah. But I put beans in tation marks. Because I'm like, I'm not claiming that this is beans. But if you can't have beans, it'll taste like there you go. There you go. Food. I just always looked so crave. -able while fitting all these years, and I think what a relief to that community. Yeah. Who have no choice, but t that's always been my goal because I've felt when honestly it sounds so dumb. My biggest fear. I was twenty two. And my biggest fear when I had heard I had to switch all this stuff that I'd be eating chicken and steamed broccoli forever. I was like I mean, I wasn't. I wasn't as into food is. I am now back then because I was like just post college. But that sounded terrible to me. And I was like there's no way this is sustainable, and so that was always my mission from day one was to just not feel deprived and to create food that still felt like the foods that I remember to stand up like a weirdo. Either. It's like you. And that was what was so nice about celebrations is that like you can entertain you can go to people's houses or -ticipant in all these hallmarks of normal life. But you can also keep eating how you need to eat your hell. And for me. I mean as long as you're not having people over that can eat that stuff. But for me, it was I don't wanna cook two meals, and that's kind of the same with what you love. It's like so long as somebody. That's coming over isn't vegan or doesn't have an allergy to nuts or whatever I'm using. I don't I want them to come in and still enjoy everything I'm making it. I don't have to tell them like gluten, free and dairy. I just serve it to them. And they love it. And then if they want to know afterwards, I tell them, but it's like I just don't feel like you have to start with all the disclaimers up my goal. Just give them. Good food. Exactly. Does it taste, right? Right. Number one. That's the number with all recipes. And I that's what we always say. And I'm so glad to hear you say that because I feel like too often in the health space people put the cart before the horse, and it's like, no a Howard people going to keep eating like shit sustainable, especially. Like we were saying, I'm not name and author names or? Great effort. We'll talk off air, but like other people's books. It is very much like, oh, you're just call them for the health angle here. And we've we've cooked some dishes out the people's books. Are you just look at the ingredients of the waste prepare? And you're like man, this is not gonna miserable. Dash. Ain't yourself. You read through it. And you're like this isn't going to be good. It's not going to be hitting flavor. Interesting. Why did they put a poisonous flower in that soup? The food styling when anatomy. Flower. And you went in the middle is like, you know, some companies going to fucking eat that. Fucking. Max me up. It's like accidentally still a whole bunch of salt around this day clean it out just gonna leave it there. But and the spoons not dirty manakin. How did this happen? A magical Hollywood. It looks pretty. So if you weren't in food, what kind of Kurdi think you would have my gosh, I said when I was in college down here, I n turned and then worked for a bit at a fashion and beauty PR. So I loved it. Yeah. Well, I said marketing so I thought that might be what I wanted to do. And then I also loved writing and I did journalism like one high school, but I wanted to maybe do it in college. So I thought maybe I would write for magazines or something like that. Yeah. I didn't. I mean, I was I was diagnosed literally just three months after college. I didn't really have that much time to figure out what I wanted to do. And I started my blog right after changing my diet. So it was kind of just this really quick thing. So people always ask me, what do you think if you do doing? I'm like, I really don't know for sure. Something that's just so outlandish just like off the cuff monster trucks. No question in my mind was going to be monster Trak my goal. Now, I cook book. Yeah. Her husband was very taken aback. Always wanted to be a skydive instructor. By writing books is held me. Anyways. Thought I feel like that's such a funny question because most of the people that I know that our age are still figuring out careers that like thirty thirty five. So I've my unlike if I wouldn't have gotten into cookbook riding when I was twenty something I don't know who knows I probably would've gone through like five different careers, suite. Then right. Do you think do do you think we have job security since that we will always need cookbooks? Like when we were doing ours people were telling us like oh prince dying like, it's not gonna fire cookbooks. Don't seem to be they're not don't seem to be dying off. Now, there's something that's misspell GIC about them. I think first of all and second of all like who wants to cook? From an ipad, kindle, all the time. Lately. I've I've pulled up recipes from my own blog on my computer, and like the sex and hands are dirty, you can't scroll, and then people love the photos, and they love it to lay flat on a counter and a lot of people just like to look at cookeville like to read through them. And so I get I mean, my sales might print sales are far above my kindle Saint books. Nielsen Carey you guys with the same. So. Yeah. Yeah. I mean job security. I don't know we we constantly go through them. Like what if what if cookbooks just stop selling? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not gonna name administrations buildup if they start burning books. We're fucked. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if your question, I hope so I really like writing them to be honest. And I feel like I could I have I have hundreds of more than hundreds of recipes that I'd love to create. So I'm like, I hope I can keep writing. I think you'll be fine since you just wrote a book and how to kid like in the same year. Like, what was that? How did you do that? Like, I'm tired, and I just have to evacuate apartment like I don't even have a child and I have written three cookbooks pregnant. I don't know what it's really weird. It's just this weird life cycle on. I mean, I'll be honest. We tried to plan stuff around like, I'm like, why can't tour when I'm yeah. Or let's planet while I write well, I'm pregnant it's all a little strange. But that's what you have to do when you have a life, and it's kind of fun because you have a lot of really crazy cravings when you're pregnant a lot of the recipes come from that. I'm like, oh, I really want this deck. Leap your life. The only thing that will do today. So it kind of provides inspiration. But then it as a flip side that like you wake up, and you just wanna barf. Yeah. And there's been times where I can't make what I was planning on making. 'cause I opened something and I'm like, Nope. Nope. Not gonna do certain smells like us. There was something. I was going to use bison meat in and the smell made me just so I think in the book, it was beef ground beef. Nobody nobody needed to know because it was. I book I had fallen and I really badly hurt my ankle. And so I was on all these painkillers, but we had to we had a deadline for like the first third of the book was due. And so there was there's one recipe in the first book that I can't fucking make anymore because I need it too badly. And because I was a great recipe. Now, she's on the painkillers that even like the smell of it. Like if you guys get together and do the rusty of together, or do you kind of divide and conquer show is very much the creative like food. Okay. Like all the recipes come out of Michelle's, brain kayak. She bounces him off me that. I'm like, that's way, too vegan. That's way way too healthy that the average man. Okay. People aren't gonna fuck with tofu and things like that. I guess ingredient confuses me out, right? Never heard of that not going to buy it. And then from my side, I do the photography. And then we right. Yeah. We write jokes and everything together. Okay. Correct me if I'm wrong because this is like when we were when I was seeing you showing up on the tenth was your identity secret for a while. It was never like secret. It was we were we were taking meetings, and we're out it was just like, okay. So kitchen was like. Tally occur to us to like have our names on it. And we're kind of private people. It's a secret. I was like well, not not really was your. Yeah. I was like, okay, you know metal. So it's a dog. But we didn't tell you about that. But that wasn't a secret either. I don't know. It's really not any different than than it is right now. Like, I mean, we have a podcast and we post photos. No. I mean, I'm out here in that world and the publishing world I will never I will never forget what somebody the rumors. Can I see your book? And I'm like, what is this in not getting somebody told me, they're like, they keep their identity secret because they were getting like hate mail, and then they were like, and they don't tell anybody who they are really disillusioned thing. But then you guys came out, and then it was like with the books and everything and new you're totally out there, and you you were doing book signings. I was like are you just lied to me ate it up? I was like I was like, oh, that's really cool. The potty will get tired of this because you've talked about. No, no, it's okay. But like we had gone out on tour. And there was like some press about us bet presses couple articles about sort of like, yeah. Were they hiding their identity who are these people? They're not from the food space get groceries like your ago. Wow. But I think there was a lot of skepticism with the blog to book thing in general. They don't deserve to have which I didn't even think oh my God imposture sin. I thought it only like a garden could write cookbooks. So when the deal was like, are, you sure right for and if only one person could write cookbooks, it should be. But there space for more. I definitely had a bus. I let you got a lot about reading all the suffering. Never you choose that. You're like, I'm a I'm a home cook. Like a chef yourself, and you don't even like calling myself. Chef I've become more comfortable with it now. But I will never forget some like real chef that went on every school being like, I hate when people call themselves chefs. Yeah. Less than I'm like, I may not have the clogs and like the ni-. Aprons? But I, but I've taught myself out of cook. And that's a lot of people connect with. I think it's like your your sound books. People who are cooking in their homes not people that went to culinary school so playing so the shortcuts you give are relatable and the instructions are where average people would flounder like no here listened to fucking colander outright. Now waiting to know if you had it. And now you're over. Oh my God. I have so many girlfriends you just don't listen to the fucking directions. A lot of people don't direction in the front matter of every fucking book where like three read it read the recipe one time through that before you even make your shopping list read it like the whole page, and how many what percentage do you think people actually read the front matter? Yeah. Like Easter eggs in like, sometimes you'd be reading our stuff. And then the sentence. We'll just end it doesn't matter because no one's reading this. Anyway. Our editor will send it back and be like delete this and I'm like, no. Do your friends and family like text you for recipe advice like on your recipes? And then other people's recipes as well, not as much other people, thankfully, but mine all the time and a lot of times, I want to be did you read it? Yes. I know you have a direct hotline to me right there or like brands do you use them like there's a whole brand glossary in the book. You know, you try to. Take a photo of the page. They're looking at fucking sin back to them right there. Yes. Shady motherfucker, even in social media. Like, I got when the new book, and then you freak out. You're like gosh. Absurd. Misprint? I got somebody that was like a couple that were like the mount of coconut flour is not listed, and I'm like, I was out driving. And I don't have it with me. And I'm like, what do you mean? It's not listed get back into my. It's right there right there right next to where it says the ingredients. So I think people just they skim and they go quick and. Yeah. Yeah. And then they wonder why it's not working out. Yeah. Recipes do you need to be followed. I mean, there's some liberty. You can have with them. But yeah, yeah. I get lots of texts from my family and friends, which I'm like, hey, at least they're working off my rest. I appreciate that. When our book came out, this sort of helping with me, and maybe Michelle too, but like friends and family being like, hey. Solid the other day. And I'm like, yeah. I don't give a shit. Fucking kidding. Got that little braggers in your life. Boy, it's like they feel like they're having to sort of like admit something for Dr. They're like, yeah. I only drink a couple times week. And it's like no one's believing that it's fine. Oh, I was gluten free for like a week one time. Vegan once known get a lot of people thinking that. I'm judging them again. It's that same. That's what it is. I know care and I'm like, dude. I'm yeah. I don't guess you. But haven't tell me that you're sick or. Yeah. Busies? And then you're eating that way. Then I'm like then at care because I'm telling you, or if I tell you what to do, and you don't take my advice, then but otherwise, I don't care. Those are called ask Kohl's. Now, you can eat whatever you want to me. I'm not gonna judge you. If you feel great eating what you're eating fine as long as well. I do have. I'm like there are some lines that I like to draw like in terms of animal welfare that part. I'm like, yeah. But otherwise, do you if you can eat gluten, and you feel great more power to you. I'd love to eat it as well. You're saying that bacon doesn't smell delicious understand and French bread. We know it smells delicious, right? We just have made other choices. Okay. Lord homers yet. The idea. I get the sheepish like, you know, like seventeen bagels. God. That's what is trying to hide it reading their pocket. Do you have one recipe that was like your first recipe to really take off or something that's one that's a little bit closer to your heart perhaps than any of the others or just when that you're more in the mood for lately. But kind of yet there's two which is so funny. It was kind of my eye opening like with my blog, and I just didn't know I was like, I don't know why people are following or if they're even following, and there were two recipes that I put out that just somehow made it take off. And I was like, oh, this is what people want and it was chocolate chip cookies, then the sandwich bread. And it just made me realize like oh, people can go to go make of vegetable and a protein for dinner. Yeah. That's easy. But what they're struggling with is how to make baked goods grain free and gluten free in every and so those were kind of the first, and I there on my blog, but they've become an mother like in my first book because they became such fan favorites. And they're the cookies are like every there's like a hashtag. Oh, yeah. No. I've heard all about. And it was one of those ones where I was creating it like over and over again, and I ended up having a bunch of college students into my home for dinner one night. And I served them to them in one of the kids is like he didn't know that they were different. He's these tastes like the toll house cookies my mom used making. I was like. Actually that you want to using your totally because they're not unsuspecting particularly discerning if it's going right over their heads, and there they don't see anything. Misery fucking good killer. Discerning a very nice way to complain college. Whatever was just to them that five dollar hot and sweaty Little Caesars. And then your cookie, they're like, yeah. This is normal soups normal. I think personal fence that I had had a seven eleven died in college. Of course, she'd might have a discerning palate. I guess. Was the same way. I yeah. Penny does from. Was like her back. Okay. Now we joke about it. Because we see the commercials and we'd call plague follow over dead if we the torquing fucking Jack inbox from Russia. One more time, I'm going to smash television. I can't stand. It. Think I've seen it. Either. Bless you. It's Jack out of construction site with reconstruction workers, and they're all working around the sandwiches. And it's like trying to rouse the both both of y'all's faces right now are exactly how I look when that fucking commercial just by yourself be linked to check it back. Just get back to the clippers game. Then it's the man with a big Jack in the box. Nothing about its normal. That's fucking weird. I know that is a marketing major. Did that did that like talking about it? Or are we talking about it? No, I met my Jack try doing something. They're getting free advertising. Totally did I took media literacy and marketing in fucking ruins like all media for me feel the same. No bit now. Because it's funny. I don't feel like I knew that. I don't maybe they don't teach you enough then. But now I watch because I do like Granddad stuff. I'll watch shows and be like look at that Coca-Cola can ride on the table there. And I'm like that is so like a paid and I never noticed that stuff before. But now that I do some things with brands for social media, and I'm always transparent about it. But I see stuff like that on shows now. And that's what's ruined it for me on like, I didn't even I watched that for years, and it was just a subliminal message shadowing in my head of seeing them use some product. And now, I'm like, oh now, I know your game that ruin me more than anything. No school. I don't feel like I don't know. Maybe they didn't pay attention. No shame. No shame there. I don't really remember that. Feel like some of it into like promoting and marketing my books and social media because I I do my first two books had no marketing efforts when so ever know PR efforts whatsoever. And so I was just you hostile. I walked down to the today show at five in the morning with my books and handed them to the. Someone who gives a damn about what they're doing here working on. Just let it flounder. So I was like I will do whatever I can to get this thing out into the world. And then I hired a publicist for the next few. Yes, it was just I just like I'm gonna just bootstrap and do it. So and I was like cold that maybe that's what I did. Learn a little bit more probably from my my PR like interning days. I was just going online and like cold finding Email like where you plug in like the first and last initial and then the companies. Look at him with one of these. We're just like Email producers and Email editors and just be like, here's my story. And I'd put like MO before. And after pictures, isn't that guy was to Ellen Ellen show. Never got that one never got not. But I get through a couple like I got through. I forget who I got through to anyways, all that. But then hustle hassle. There you go there. You got. Yeah. But yeah, it seems like your marketing kind of I mean, you very good. It's like promoting your brand coming across this gross. Very thank you. That's always been my. I mean, it's always been my goal, please. Let me know. Maybe it's just pulling from the bay. Wit when are in school. We had an assignment that the teacher was media literacy, and we were creating ads, and I was doing essentially what we're doing with kitchen where it's like making jokes in the and everyone's creating like various like we had a bunch of like stock images. I'm never that story and everybody everybody's creating Coca-Cola ads in like a Toyota ads and stuff like that. And I'm creating like Toyota ads. It looked very commercial and everything. But it's just like who gives a fuck about the environment Toyota. Just like in like, my Coca Cola ad was like say goodbye to your stomach lining Coca Cola, and I got an A because outside the. Outside the teacher was like, okay. You get like what it is that they're trying to communicate you're sort of poking fun at that that wasn't the objective of the assignment. But like you get it. There's so many different ways to do it. Yeah. To apply. So everybody listening if you're pregnant if you're going to school, right? A fucking book gave it to the today show. We can do it. That's what I'm saying. You can fund we have so many creative people that listen to this. And I think that they're just hearing they need someone to tell them that. They can do it. Yeah. Yeah. I had to tell myself. I could do it. I wanted to. I I was talking about this on a business podcast earlier. But I wanted to put my first book out for nine ninety nine and I'd ever wanted to like put ads on just was so afraid to charge for anything because I didn't value my work high enough. So that you have to just believe in yourself. First of all, the I was like we can't charge more than ten dollars for the book. Because nobody if I'm there one hundred sixty recipes in it. No publisher like, you're crazy. Thank nine nine. No. I just was like I was too nice. So, but I like to keep the niceness, but also like value myself at something. All right. If I'm going to work a year on this thing and nearly kill myself. I should at least try to make some of your. Yeah. You're allowed to make a little bit. People who want to follow along where can they find you? Well, I'm kind of in the midst of a brand transition. So I'm Danielle Walker on Instagram and still against all green everywhere else. Can't stop grain dot com. My blog against game on Facebook. I'm really not really on Twitter, but she can find me there. Instagram doubters the same. Yeah. I feel at home in Twitter garbage, garbage person and Twitter's garbage. With it. That's my problem. I'm like, I just can't keep up with that also had to just pick and choose we do on YouTube against green. There you go and just in the top one hundred bucks Amazon. Thank you. For having me. Sixty seconds. When you think about it? But it's actually a lot of time. And you know, what you can do in about a minute getting offer on your car with truecar? That's right in the amount of time. It takes flush teeth pet. Your dog too few sit ups, you can get a true cash offer issues. Crank out a few sit ups just because when was the last time he did that best of all you can do it from your smartphone or even from home, just go to truecar and simply enter your license plate number watch. How your car's details? Pop up just answer a few questions and you'll get an accurate true cash offer from a local truecar certified dealer. It's that easy after that just bring in your car, and they'll check it out with you. You can ask questions to get the answers you need. So there are no surprises. Then simply leave with your check or trade in your car for a new ride. So when you're ready to experience a better way to sell or trade in your car? Check out truecar today through cash offer not available in all areas. Guys. That's our show this week. Thanks for hanging out. Thanks for listening. I hope you enjoyed it. We'd like to take a moment to thank our sponsors who bring this podcast. Off free every week, especially madman and truecar please go and support them because they support us. And as always we'd like to thank Frank vertebra for our lovely themes that. Yeah, the the, Sean we we weren't too stupid this week, Sean squared, but they really they help us out every single time the curious cost that finish. Like we every week wasn't for the Shawn's y'all wouldn't be listening to this on Thursday morning. We are basically two people chicken fighting on their shoulders if that is the podcast pretty accurate description and is always the potty audience. Oh, my show as we appreciate y'all. Oh, it's nice. The feedback that somebody who is like I feel smarter after listening Sparkasse. I'm like that has a responsibility. I did not ask for. Just trying to entertain y'all. We'd love you. We appreciate you. And try to eat the non shitty Easter and Passover food this weekend goes for two hundred is coming up. Over heaven. A lot of holidays on the calendar. Holidays. You actually, do you even know easter's of. All right, guys. How the kid while y'all next week? Thanks for listening to forked up a kitchen, podcast checkout. New episodes every Thursday, exclusively at podcast one dot com. The new podcast one app or subscribe on apple podcasts. Hey, this is AJ benja and happy to announce the my show fame bitch is now on podcast one under the green view. My unfiltered opinions on the biggest stories in pop culture. Download new episodes of famous bitch three times a week, apple podcasts and odd. Cast won the stylized lounge presents an evening with the progressive box. The moon. That's Ugo tickling the ivories. He just saved. By bundling home and auto progressive gonna finally by a ring for that. Gal of you is Hugo send him my condolences. This next one. There's. In my all. Stinkier? Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Discounts on available in all states or situations. I'm Rita Foley with AP news minute when attorney general William bar steps before the microphones this morning. He will talk about the mullahs report, and what interactions his department has had with the White House about that the president's tweeting about the report this morning without mentioning Bob Muller. The president has tweeted the greatest political hoax of all time. The White House is not commenting on an ABC news report that it's already been briefed on the special counsel's report. A Justice department official says attorney general William bar will address department interactions with the White House during his news conference this morning with authorities in Paris worn that part of Notre Dame cathedral structure is still at risk after that devastating fire Las Vegas man broke his own one day record on jeopardy by winning over one hundred thirty one thousand dollars in a show broadcast last night. And a judge has declared Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt single though, more work. Has to be done by their lawyers before their divorce is final. I'm Rita Foley.

US New York Times Mike Charles California autoimmune disease Michelle Davis Daniel Walker Wisconsin Texas Charles Albert Santa publisher Mexico New York Italy Africa USDA Sanza Hormel
DavidPascoe & Mzi "Zee" Dempers

Watch What Happens Live with Andy Cohen

24:30 min | 2 weeks ago

DavidPascoe & Mzi "Zee" Dempers

"Hey watch what happens live listeners. It's eric meghan here from bravo's official podcast the daily dish Have you ever wanted to start your own business with go daddy. You can build a website sell your products and get discovered online so any small business can be a driving force to create change or bilden empire more than just naming your site go. Daddy has the free tools and expert advice you need to make sure your business reacts fast securely and is always online use one of go. Daddy's designed templates are one of their pros to build your site for more customized plus. It's free to get started. what are you waiting for. Start different at go. Daddy dot com. That's go daddy. Dot com believe the hype and for really popping. The most talked-about housewife show is back in the map and east potomac moment. Not only to play. My husband's name will leave. You shook when are we gonna talk about. I don't ever need to be around care. Liar liar tryst dismiss so though the real housewives of potomac all new every sunday night at eight only on bravo and strength full seasons on peacock. Welcome to the bravo clubhouse for the podcast edition of watch. What happens live with me. Andy cohen he- is the greenest on lady. Michelle and he's the keenest on lady. Melania it's watch what i was e and david from below deck everybody to watch dr klaus when i'm not exaggerating when i say i'm joined by the literal goats of boats. Actually i am exaggerating. But it sounded good when i said it right please. Welcome from below deck mad deck. Denver's everybody can david pasco fellas. Where are you right now. Z. where are you. I'm back in south africa in cape town. I'm have been able to because of lockdown recently. Wow and where are you david. I'm in the south of france. Nick on lucky. Both of you are you. Are you working on a boat right now. David not big ones anymore smaller. That's got it by the way. So i want to get into tonight's episode. How awkward was for you guys to hear the women talking about how hot the engineers are and that they are the only guys on the boat in their estimation. What was your reaction to that z. Thank everybody has their preferences what they like say just a bit of a lark they new. Everyone has a preference sheet. What about you. David always fun to go straight to the bottom of the pilot. Yes way of either of you. Spoken to me after her sensor scooter accident. How how's she doing. Yeah she's i'm still really wild. Obviously so giselle. V emailed wants to know. What do you think matt meant. When he said that he and lexi wouldn't talk in normal circumstances and is that just the tip of the iceberg. When it comes to those two david. I guess it is are you guys. Did you guys smoked up on. Show z. i would have no judgment if you did anyway. Go on. i'll just. I think mountain lexi would be in very different social circles in the real world. Got it on as for the rest of the season. Okay questions and you guys as deckhands may not know the answer but danielle w was one of the people from florida who asked why takeout wasn't ordered for the gas as soon as the chef bailed where you guys anywhere where takeout could be ordered. I guess you weren't. It's one of those things where number one more away from land and obviously the time where in the height of covid so right would be the full currently that you can bring up. Say i let's delivery and bring out right in wapping. Hazy should matter but you guys or drinks then one round. It's a makeup for what he did. I mean i could have done at twelve but one right well so far this season and david have done a better job of avoiding drama than anyone on board including the bride and groom mayor hours before their wedding. But that ends now is we. Play feud for thought. I'm going to present you both with some below deck ned face off. Tell me whose side you're on. Who was more to blame formats absence that first night on charter his bad knee or his even worse. Anxiety david Hazy was lexi in the wrong for bossing matt around in his own galley or was being too sensitive legs in the wrong deputy. David what do you think it'll take for me to get past. Her feud with relationships. In general maybe you. Yeah exactly yeah. The audience wants to see it. Who side are you on a Lexi versus the dirt pile was lexi in the wrong for stepping in the pile or was dirk simply enter way once again david. Whose side are you on in the drunker. Drunken charter guest. Clint feuding with his upset fiance kerry carry aside leaked fully. Always take the lady side. Was the first night charter. Hail deserving of the disdain it received from the gas z. one thousand percent discount. Not david was charter. Guest says being too picky about not eating pets. Winter lamb was served high to happen. Vigil are okay. Well david libya since. That's too complicated. Let me ask you this. Who side were you. On z versus. The jet skis should z. Of triple check that the skis were tightened down. Ozzy's not in a row happens all right. thanks. I really appreciate it. I these guys are just giggle monsters tonight. Let's take some questions for our virtual fans tank from washington. Dc has a question for z. Hey tank hi david. So my question is actually for the even though you're early in your career Do you think that it's a bad idea for david to be crushing on your boss. Take reading a very good point here i. I don't think you can find load like. It's actually you know what i mean. If it's going to happen it's going to happen. And i mean what about lots and you fight lust. Tough cool so cool. I mean david is is your dick in the direction of your off. Always good move. Oh here they david jenny from albany is here with a question for you and jenny wave. Unfortunately we're having a problem hearing you there. She is so. I'm gonna ask any question. She wants to know david. How exactly did you find out that your ex cheated on you with someone else on your boat. And how awkward was it for you to continue working on that boat. Good question jenny. Come on she. Basically about a week off the suspicion she's gone to came out with it and they such and that was up and that was that i would assume that it was very awkward continuing to work on the boat with her. There's on some situations that make like wet Someone did not noted dishwasher but yeah someone else not ideal giggle about it today. Well courtney called z daddy in her american accent and constance hard to do a little spin so i want to keep that spin going with round of daddy. Dealbreakers deal breakers. God i remember in time here comes the dalil. I'm going to spin the wheel to land on a series of sultry proverbs. Have either of you turn on. You will say daddy like in your best american accent if not gonna say yet. He don't like. I don't know how that's an american accent. But okay whatever your we go okay fellas they love tying you up daddy daddy like wow okay z. Surprise either crying while were ziming. I've never heard of that. Would guys daddy excessive. Pda line david. David can you weigh in as public displays of affection that oh my god what are we doing their best friends with their hot acts. What are we saying. Daddy don't doesn't only likes being the big spoon. Never the little spoon. Can you fellas scandal that much. Okay smokes a cigarette after hooking up. Daddy likes looking up in public bathrooms. Daddy likes gonna clear the dalil sex wellstone. I know you both like that role playing as captain and not naughty. Naughty naughty audie may fingers. Oh god we're going to okay. Thanks guys he's i mean my god dot. I have my hands full with sustainable strain. Not a bunch of okay. My glasses on. I can't see anymore okay. Victoria s wants to know. Did lexi not talk about being in the midst bahamas pageant to them like. She said she never like she said she never does. Then she is immediately shown telling someone she was in the midst bombers vagit. She thinks you brought it up once or twice mistaken. Obviously speaking about like previous experience agenda had with work. David delilah h wants to know looking back now. Do you think the gas should have gone through with the wedding after their massive argument. I'm sure they go west to come. So yeah were you surprised at how willing molina was to teach you. Were you nervous. You might have had a boasts in who wasn't so patient dipping. Is that those going to be the situation. So it was quite surprised actually turned out hard. Was david reaction to as ex boyfriend. Tom calling her on the boat. What what was it like watching that news to me but you guys are fun. Enjoying your company having fun to andy reid z. H. to something you can identify with. How annoying was that giant unicorn. Floaty and how many times do they keep flipping over. Maureen is the worst thing that's ever stepped into your thank. I'm done. I'm done jacob. David kay wants to know. How katie compares to other chief stews that you've worked with. She really seems to have altogether. Okay he's top end marcella. I wants to know. Did either of you watch below deck med before joining the show. And if so did sandy or maleeha defy what you thought. They'd be like good question z. Did you watch it. I watched season season five or four and sort of like preparation and did sandy in malaya were they as you expected them to be. And i was very pleasantly surprised. I think obviously you watch something you have these preconceived ideas but the bites. Such incredible ladies to work with was it is awesome. And what about you david. I never watched it before any of it. So when totally blind and yet so i need to judge people based on who they actually were as opposed to therapy sensation before harry. Good well It is time for watch what happens five as a strong and steady leader captain. Sandy knows better than to play favorites among our crew but when it comes to the people who work for me i do not tonight. We're counting down my top five. Watch what happens. Live employees as it stands tonight at this moment at why this list is in no particular order or is it. You'll never know our first staff member. I wanna shout. I was responsible for getting me through the pandemic as one of the only other people in the studio with me during the early days. She's our talent coordinator sometimes felt like my best friend area on rain. These next two were so attached to the hip only a global pandemic could separate them. It's the clubhouses vary on laverne and shirley research producers to cadet and bell rome and i love the since important that i don't surround myself with yes-men our next what should others live. Staff members. always no nonsense. She tells it to me like it is. It's our graphics operator. Simon sanji jenkins side g. Got off my god and not only do these next two regicide on every show talking to me in my ear from the control room. They can also be in your ears every friday at eleven. Am they're the host of. Here's what happened. Live on radio and espn supervising producer. Melissa france and our co executive producer. John jude and finally not to get graphic for this next entry. But that's the foia llandough. It's what. I've supervising graphics producer. All around genius ball stack also. Don't tell the other four. But next monday i'm going to countdown my least favorite watch. What happens live staffers. Joe miss it you to in the studio david. Here on twitter dot com. Hey watch what happens. Live listeners. Eric and meghan here. From bravo's official podcasts daily dish. Have you ever wanted to start your own business with go daddy. You can build a website sell your products and get discovered online so any small business can be a driving force to create change building. Empire more than just naming your site go. Daddy has the free tools and expert advice you need to make sure your business reacts fast securely and is always online use one of go. Daddy's designed templates are one of their pros to build your site for more customized plus. It's free to get started. what are you waiting for. Start different at go. Daddy dot com. That's go daddy dot com. Hey guys eric and meghan here from bravo's official podcast. The daily dish eighty million men and women in the us experience. Thinning hair yet. It's still not openly talks about which make going through. It feels scary and stressful and that just adds to the problem in a time when self care is more important than ever everyday is an opportunity to skip damaging styling tools and chemicals and focus on better hair growth from within neutral is formulated with potent botanical. To help you grow hair as strong as you are and his physician formulated to be one hundred per cent drug free and clinical studies neutral user saw thicker stronger hair growth with less setting in three to six months and on top of that neutrophils ingredients may also help you get a handle on better sleep stress response. Skin nails an libido this neutral com and take their hair wellness quiz for customize product recommendations. The put the power to grow thicker stronger. Hair back into your hands. I actually took the quiz and it was really helpful. They get to the root of the problem and offer suggestions. Unique to your individual hair needs when you subscribe. You'll receive monthly delivery so the never miss a dose shipping is free and you can pause or cancel anytime whether you're experiencing thinning or not you deserve harris strong as you are. Neutral can help you achieve your best hair growth. Naturally you can grow thicker healthier hair and support our show by going to neutral dot com and using promo code. Live to save fifteen dollars off your first month subscription. This is their best offer available anywhere. And it's only available to us customers for a limited time plus free shipping on every order. Get fifteen dollars off at neutral dot com that's n. u. t. r. a. f. o. l. dot com promo code live for hair as strong as you are backwoods e and david from below deck med. So by the way z. Having watched below deck bad season five. Were you nervous about being on the show bay nova just because it was gonna be my first big yachting job so i think that everything just tied in together so super nervous. Okay i want to go back to our virtual fans. Here's surely from santa monica with a question for z. i. Andy i'm having fun with you. Tonight biggs The was your first docking as scary as you thought it would be or with. They're pretty manageable. I think it was very manageable. Guided in the right direction even willing to help. So that made it manageable. Okay let's go to kadian just from pennsylvania with a question for david. Hi andy how are you. Hey david how does captain sandy. Compared to all the other captains you have previously worked within the past brian. I can say any more any less right. David vins viz sanza. Di wants to know if you like being called daddy to do they go in the context. The context okay. Ready once nosy was in annoying that you guys had to fend for yourselves for the crew meal or did matt eventually step up matt deputies up so everything came to an end so it was all good sarcastic today. Tweeted did either of you consider shaving off. Lloyd's mustache as a prank. You think he actually looks like nicholas cage. No no very good now. By the way where in the south of france are you. David can fantastic. Oh my god is the and the festivals happening right now right festivals just happened but it was quiet right right right okay. Jennifer be wants to know david. What was it like having that as a roommate was he as equally do she as roommate as he seems in the galley. Now that's great. How is matt's food by the way. America twenty submerge credible. Okay film ninja for finn. Ninja said david. Do you love steve coogan. Because you resemble him so much. He is a british comedian. Just see you know okay z. Just market said since courtney caught your attention right away. What did you find most attractive about her. And courtney just personality. She's incredible and she teaches who she is. And that's a big quality. All right listen. I will be seeing a lot more of you this season. I am so site to meet you. You're both lovely gentlemen. Thanks for hanging out with me more on their running the episode of eek in advance. So i don thanks guys. Thanks so much guys thank you. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Everybody hope you enjoyed the show. Remember new episodes. Go live monday through friday at four. Pm eastern time. Make sure your subscribe to have a great rusty or night.

david lexi eric meghan Melania dr klaus David david pasco mountain lexi danielle w david Hazy bravo Winter lamb david libya david jenny jenny wave matt Andy cohen ziming vagit
Castle Black - Game Of Thrones Season One Recap & Review

FanBros

1:02:37 hr | 2 years ago

Castle Black - Game Of Thrones Season One Recap & Review

"You are now listening to castle black the blackest game of thrones podcasts and all of the realms Casablanca's created by the four all nerds team, and is hosted by DJ, Ben. I mean, Tatsiana keen Jone's Porsche Patterson our show is edited and produced by Ben I mean. Casablanca by four nerds is powered by our listeners. Everything we do from our podcasts live events website and more independently funded please continue to support us. Do our patriotic page at patriotair dot com slash for all nerds. And what's up y'all, and we'll come back to another episode of Casablanca theme. Blacks steamer fromm podcast in all of its simple way. DJ been I mean, eight eight Drako tar, Gary uncle Benson's rice here spaceship, traveling through the lands through the seventeen domes. And as always I'm joined by Tatyana, king Jones Greenwich tech also known as toffee Barack Theun. There we go. I have some more next week. I'm sure you will. I'm sure you will. And we have a new member joining the night's watch as it were as so go on introduce yourself. I am forced to Patterson hers, and and aka the met may stir of disguise. Right now, I'm working on it. Ooh. That's a good intro. Very good to start it off to start it off. And yes, folks, we are black. I mean back we're back. Perfect. You're. Every day every time you listen to this. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Every said the blackest Damer prone to podcast in all of the land is back due to popular demand. Thank you to everyone. Who's been reaching out to us asking us about shadows? At a whole four all nerds family out there. Everyone has been asked him when he bring him back hassle black and we're back we're going to do one season per episode right now because it's a lot episodes were leading up to what is this March fifteenth? Am I right premier date at sounds, right? Okay. You know, we're we're really into it over here. I just think it's going to magically appear. But no air date is April fourteen seventeen. Okay. I'm a whole month off right maple fourteen twenty nine hundred there we go. There we go. So we give ourselves enough time to do a season per week or so we're going to work it out. We have our new member in the house Porsche who has read the books, you know, as a little more up on it than we are. And you know, that being said we have to take a minute and give a shoutout a rest in peace to deadly diva who was wanted a founding members of Casablanca. And passed away last year, and you know without her. We would not be here right now that goes without saying she was the one who knew everything would always correct me when I would mispronounce somebody's name knew all the ins and outs of every book, and is greatly missed not only as a member of castle black, but just to the friend and part of our family here. So, you know, thank you very much. Thank you to all her friends and family, and we will continue on as I know. She would want us and share your sentiments in. Thank you for everything you've done for us daily diva. And we still love you still miss you. Now never knew her. But I I'm happy to be like hoping them holding her mantle in her said. And we're very happy to have you here. Thank you for. Joining us Porsche Porsche reached out to the four all nerds crew. And was wanted to people asking since I think will about. About. Where castle black was at. And she was like, yo, I know everything I'm up on all the games. So you gotta put me down. And so, you know, here she is making her debut, and like I said we're talking about season one, which I just thought of going to watch, you know, one to have sold real quick to get myself. Call it all and I just couldn't stop I roll I roll through joint. Like I'd never seen it before. It was his fires. I remember season. One is really some ish lanterns of production in terms of writing directing at everything because there is so much groundwork being laid, and then there's stories still just moving right along like type everything just happened. Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of establishing story there. And it's interesting when you already have the full background or game at throws up until the current time. So when you go back, and you see all of the four. Site that was put there when you see all of that as you mentioned groundwork as being laid for future seasons. It's kind of wild. It's it's it's wild in the sense of how the writing Sperber writing really was structured in a way that when you go back to it. Then you gotta see. Oh, I see why they did that or oh, I see why they had a character. React to certain way, it all makes sense. But yeah, if you're just new coming into a season one, you're just like what is going on is moving at light speed. And you're kind of like get on board or don't. Now, Porsche something I want to ask you about. And so we can get all the listeners up on it is where is everyone at the start of the season because as much as position as laid out throughout the season. There's a lot of stuff that still not the history of west rose is a really told in the first season is very much hinted at, but there's a lot of stuff that you either figure out a way to like, I said, you gotta catch up on everything. And then you'll know what's going on. Yeah. So for the most part, everyone is in western else. There are. There is two main regions that game of thrones focuses on and their other mysterious regions like a shy and Qatar is close something. I forget right now, but they are kind of shadow regions. You hear about them in passing? There's rumors is ice dragons lurking in the water. And then where you're focused for game of thrones for the most part is in western rose, which years decades generations of go were conquered by the tar guarantee came through from the doom of Valeria they landed on dragging stone, which the breath hold which is I remember and the last episode for castle black when when discussing. The relationship between the Barassie ends on a target area. And the diva brought up how they're actually related. Well, this is kind of pal they laid the ground for that. 'cause they laid it on dragon stone in that ended up coming like a barashi inland later on. So everyone is pretty much Coventry dated neither king's landing which is like the southern shore almost ensure of less you go further down the southern coast you'll hit old town, which is where the macer train. And then that's also where the the Tyrrells were Marjorie thrill everyone lives, and then if you go even further south and a little bit east, you'll hit Dorn. So that's all like in that one region. Then if you keep going up westerly, you'll hit Lanester Casserly rock if you keep going some more you'll hit on river. Totally where this holy is ARIN Caitlyn's found ways around keep going from there and get the twins. When the phrase keep going north in will eventually hit the winner filled all the like northern clans. And then, you know, Pat beyond that is the wall, and nobody goes there. Right. We don't know. But. The big companies. Remained in the Bronx. Void everybody's gonna come down on me. But I'm sorry. I bet y'all y'all live too far. But no, okay. That's a great set setup right there. Like there you have it. And we also have like as everyone knows there's many families in west arose throughout the lands. And that's what you know to game of thrones pretty much center out. So centers around is all these different families trying to win. Now, y'all know how feel about? The real heroes of all that fan. But okay. Split. Let's talk about it. You know at the beginning. No to series, we have to land at least who are very well. In the first season. You have to Lancaster Starks. You have the Tyrrells being mentioned mentioned by not ratio showing up. You have my man's make an insurance live altuva fray walled afraid that clown. Yeah. So you had to phrase you have brassy ins will at least with Robert you have him being there. Am I missing anyone? Sure that a lot. But I just feel like for you to say that is wild to me because I mean, a first episode Lantis show how fucked boy they are. I mean that I ever so new kit, sir. See sex, Jamie. You get all this plots of murder coming from the Lancaster House. And then you see Jamie is the first episode Jamie, China, Brandon. Okay. Now, let me let me let me take off one by one. There's guy on the right? Well, we see later on you know, other people's. Numbers crew engaged in these murder plots who isn't if you want to win the game for owns as also says in the season that I love the quote, you when you play you either win or you die. In the rush a ten year old boy boy out of the window. How? I mean wrong place. That was his superego or story. No. Everyone needs. Miss the. I know you did not just call Bram glass. I'm out. Oh, oh, that's even worse. But Ramses mission last make sense not. Bolinao steps when it came. Oh, lord. Okay. But no on that note listener bat to it. There's a thing about game of thrones into series in general where they say like books or defies, tropes and trends and fantasy right? And there's this idea of heroes and villains in fantasy where it's like, we know to him rose trying to make it in and game of thrones shows you right off the bat that Ned nets dead that doesn't happen. You know, like the person you've been following even though you know, what Sean beings, I'm been. So you should know he's dead, but you think Ned nen net and then wack right up to the moment when it happened. I never thought he was going to get killed that surprise this out of me when I went down. You don't watch the movies. I know but that is. Come in. I'm this remember myself being the first day or the first the first year that I watched game of thrones. And it's just like I would never have thought that like maybe also because I'm not thinking I'm thinking of Lord of the rings it all that stuff. I I'm not like the huge slaughtering fan. Yeah. Nice. So what like think nothing of it and sold for him after he's being a stab as this anchor. If you will to have this anchor then on ceremoniously removed. It was a shock to me. Ceremony. Look I wanna to go there. Ceremony that he wanted. But you know. Yeah. But go ahead Borja. I feel like it was when I really enjoyed about. That was that. It was a surprise seem even the characters like it was the price even Sirsi that Joffrey was gonna have like that. He does. Decision like on that show. Inbred son is a fucking crazy maniac. Right, right. You fricking raised a monster. Are you happy? Are you you can even be controlled own monster. Like, you just created it. And he's just out here. Wallin good. What's interesting is? I'm glad you brought that up. What was interesting is throughout that. I and obviously going forward, but especially the effort season, you do see a lot of that shocked look from seriously, you know, that mean with the peak of chew with the shock, look, and it's just like you really shouldn't be shot which shocked. Cheapie having F face on every time Joffe be saying. Wow, shit or at the him. Like, wow. I never knew that he had that in them. And it's like how. Like, are you serious? Like who's Maine's this? And it's like, it's like me. He. What did that commercial? I learned from watching you like between you and Jamie and arrest of y'all fuck poison the Lantis turfing Lancaster camp. I don't understand how you would be shocked that your own flesh and blood which just grow up to just not have a an appropriate view or an appropriate worldview nor understand nuance. Morality all the things that kind of make a regular person. But here we are. No. And that's so funny. I agree. Both the all because like I said, I was watching especially in that last thing, sir. She has no idea that my man's about the flip it on like that. She. I think that's a good idea. He's like shut up mother. I got this. It's like, okay. So she was looking like academics. With me. That's what they wanted to. I guess that's what's going to happen. All kinds of us. But it's funny. In the there's like Sweden site like this light and to curbing like, oh, like she's like in this place where it's kind of like the white feminism kind of trope of like oh. I'm tired of all these min around me having the power, I'm powerful. And then she raises a son. This irony who dislike as soon as he gets a little taste of Hollings those all the way in and she's not absolute facts all. All right. See there will be no. All episodes all twenty nineteen. But let's okay. Let's talk about that real quick. Because like I was saying there's this idea heroes and villains. But what you also have to look at it in a story is the protagonist in antagonise. And that's what I really wanna talk about in this first season is who is the protagonist in the Tagore in this series, and my contention is that it's really little finger. And yeah. As as the antagonists little finger and bring the antagonise and spider being protagonist who's trying to save. The real bears is everything in the books. John gayer. John gayer. Yeah. I love I it's very clear that he's about his like, oh clay away. And that she like things down for the kingdom, not necessarily four whomever's empower. Lingers the opposite who's down for himself. Okay. Okay. That's a good understanding of that. Year that's made very clear in the first season when little finger and various have talk where VERA says like your man with no morals, I'm very steered of you ever did into thrown. And then he says, and I will I do this for the realm not for anyone else. And then he repeats that several times throughout the whole series. So I'll say that and insane that I don't think that the Melena stir people's are, you know, really all that bad name like, I know Porsche has a lot to say about cats start, and I can't start nearly as much as I cannot stay in the men of the stark family, but Porsche please tell me about this tent start being 'cause I need to hear about this. So. Is the worst honestly the ground? That's I'm starting from. He's the worst. It's a I think it starts from the very beginning to coach from John snow. Any she did. And this is like a kid that she's like actually raised herself, you know, whether she's played in active or very like like a passive role in raising him. She's been there for him his whole life in all he wants is a little bit of love in. All she does is like that. And so the other kids pick up on that Robin Sansa of Mike clearly more likely are the ones you like have a bit more. Where rob is like he's cool with John. He doesn't like bang with John the way the he'd like bangs theon and then. Stance. She's just always shooting, John like, whatever the step child. I don't mess with him. But luckily, he has aria Umbrian facing severe little bit better about toughens him with Rb his Vesey. But Catling issues any chance you can get she's being the worst John snow, and that's where I started disliking her. And then things continue on when she they get the letter from her sister. She's warning them that Roberts coming, but there's something going on at the court in nothing trust what's going on. But what is Caitlin with that letter? She's like, oh, you should go be his hand. Instead of being like, you know, what this something on something off limits. Rethink about this. She's ready for like to grasp some power in a rest her family in the middle of it. You know, that's that's interesting tape. And I gotta agree with you. Like Caitlin reminds me one of those daydream gang soccer moms like they want to be in charge. But they don't want no real responsibility. And that's the way. She comes to me. I never understood that, you know, building a back. I've never understood why she was so Aggie over John. John would literally just be standing there. Like, John breeds. And it's like this is why I don't quit you, and it's just. To to like, it's he didn't do nothing. But what exists I understand that his existence irritates her for various reasons, infidelity and all that other stuff? But like to me, I'm like I thought to and Ned came to terms with this years ago. Like, I don't know how I'm not quite sure how John supposed to be at that time is I don't know if he's a late teenager or mid teenager, whatever. But you've had him since he was a baby more or less. So I don't understand why. Now like it stole problem. He's not a problem of taking at least right now. He's not a problem of taking over winter fell hitting a problem anywhere else. He loves his brothers and sisters eight seen generally mostly to love him. So what's the problem has beyond say ever forgiven? Jay z. They still together will. So we're. Caitlyn ain't got to release lemonade yet. As long as far as we know doesn't have John snow in the wing, so. Remorse. It's even worse. Well, I. I don't see how that's worse. What I? Why Caitlyn again is just so mad like I again, I I firmly believe that she came to turn with this. I'm going to say I'm gonna magin that John is nineteen or whatever you in terms of this nineteen years ago. Whatever the fuck like, yeah. You was mad at knit and y'all did which I did. But then you agree to raise this guy. So now after all the time of agreeing you still got a problem. Okay. But this thing about that though. There's one thing there is that the kids, right? The two oldest. They were there when their family was great. You know, they're growing up family, great, then they're dead goes off to war and brings this other little boy fascinated. Wow. Oh, my there will be blood flee. So John, technically. John is technically younger that like here Robert born the same year. So he's only like a couple of months younger than rob at least in the books. And so he's older Zand says the only rob is really the one that like he was a baby's didn't even notice that variety from the house. But the only thing that can explain Cates. Mater, Catholic favorite sides. I mean isn't come out in the show. But in the books is that there's rumors going around that are still persisting that Ned was in love with a shower Dane who is part of her family somewhat aligned with the Doorns not really her. Her brother was like a great night using the nights the king's guard, and she tragically like committed suicide not long after John was orange. So like the hell the dates, look it looks like Ned may have been in love with her and she got pregnant had a kid possibly. That kicks possibly John. And then people are like in west roads or having the rumor they're spending it around like that John is her wait a minute because she's yes. Just just realize you just said, John, and rob are like a few months apart. Yeah. So you're saying Ned was smashed into kicks at once. No. That's what people think. Right. But. So there's making that would have happened was cat was oppose the Mary nets older, brother. Knits older brother was the rightful like inheritor of winter fell. But when the mad king went mad he held his his brother got pissed off. Okay. Wrecking with mad and his of they thought radar was holding Liana their sister hostage. So his brother was a hot head. They called him the hotheaded wolf he would go when king's landing so yelling at the king. King was like this cute flea, hold them hostage. That's when the father of meds father had to go down to king's landing and be like, let go of my son. But what the king didn't said was he hooked up the sun in a armor. And then he know he'll get the father in armor, and he made the sun watch as whenever he pulled against the chains. Hot like that wildfire. Greene filed fire burned him alive in on. Though. That's what helps fuel the rebellion. Robert's rebellion was that neds family like that was that was his best friend was Ned. So he was cool with the whole family. So soon as they killed the Starks Robert was ready to go that meanwhile, Ned had been like hanging out with Robert even going to the Danes. So they thought that Ned possibly was in love with Shara. A cat was always insecure thinking that she was already promised to older brother, and she was kind of like the like secondhand Whiteman Ned because he really trying to get with her. He was somebody else. Okay. That makes sense now. And then neds older brother is also the reason that little finger is going against them in general right to because he's the one who cut little finger up yet. My little finger Starks. Hey, it's every his own reflection. Everyone will. But he's also in still in love with Caitlin, and then through that through Santa which we see later on and all that grossness. So yeah, little finger is definitely to meet a antagonise whole series. You know, various probably two protagonists. I don't really put, you know, the Lancasters below to Stark's like I said before I think the stark men in general are all very foolish and they just make Eddie out blues throughout the season and drought the series, and I just don't mess with them. Jon snow is like a cut above the best early on. It. Just doesn't matter early. In hindsight autumn men is just foolish hill through out the entire series. Like, it's always some dumb shit every time and more often than I it's the women who had come in and clean up or come up with some strategy or or pick up highs up as as you say that Ben I'm just flashing all the moments, and this is on my every time some function happened. It was a man. Every see Catlin Tate. Lynn, you know, she has a part. She had I'm talking about an aggregate. If Caitlin has a few parts if she has two percent of the fuck shit. The men have ninety eight percent. I will also say Jamie, Lancaster is one of he rose at the story. Now, he's comparing naive year. But I think that's a stab list from very early on to. I think you see a lot more later on. But if you really watch on the first season, I think it's the stabbed. It's very early on like he's told the cane slayer, but he killed the med team. You know, everyone just mad at him because he didn't step up earlier. But he's like I would have been killed. And so I made a smart play and got him when I could. And he says it in the first season if I've stabbed him into belly. Would you call me more of a man now, you know, set of Sabah I'm gonna back. He's I people who wasn't about nothing who wasn't on do nothing going to turn around be like, oh, you should did the soon sooner family war. How the fact that? I did it. I don't know if people are mad at him necessarily. I think it's because he killed them that it is that they wish to kill them fast quicker because he was an Akins guard. And that was like the big disrespect was that he was supposed to be like one of the most trusted nights in Rome and killed the king that he's supposed to be guarding. So I think that that's where the where. Are like picking them because he's like he disrespected tile Arinc of what that's postal mean by killing the person. Okay. He kills. I get all that. But if that, you know, that's like that's a fair move to me all the facts. But for go all I'm just old at a fully understood. He's part of the cane star with a means it's on for life. Like a man who leaves Joffrey tells them to bounce later on shows all that. But I don't care in this Jayme. You play to win and that's a play to win move. And it's that's a move heiress or someone like that. Who was just doing it for the room? It's not about. Oh, I got a McCain's Dr. So I can't kill this. Meg king. That's not not be. You gotta go. You know, you're over here burner people alive who wildfires it. And so I've really think that Jamie doesn't get a lot of credit. He deserves and you know, and you know, me I just pulled for because search is about that life. You know, she is like she says early on if if they're not us there. Enemies into story. You know? Porsches size in between. You're crazy of all twenty nineteen girls. Dole for the wind. Now. Now, we've yet to mention, you know, really, I know a lot of people regarded this John McCain that one FM m one of my early heroes, Danny Tarin. Yes. Yeah. I see the seeds of fail you're being sewn very early though. But yeah. Home fresh, he's here on you're like, yeah. But she's a failure. Really? I mean, I loved her, you know, from early on the series, everyone does I think for me dragons at the end of the season is one of my favorite moments and television like that that was a dramatic reveal and pretty well done insanely world done. And I was stunned. I had read the book at that point. I've read the first book since but I was blown away because all season. I was like, okay. This just some swords of no source ary stuff. Is there? None of that going on. There's no real magic nothing. And then boom three dragons. And I was like I was all in after that. I was done. So Dan, he's always been one of my favorites. But I feel like she has the tar Gary and blood in her. And that's that problem like, she's always. Violent this season. Not as much into rewatch. I'll say that. I think tonight events here in the first season enough on the first book. So she's really she's everyone is super young all the kids are steeper. Preowned in the books. So, you know, they're Asia petites for consenting everything, but what she has her favors that super young. She's been kind of like her emotions have been like emotionally abused by her brother since like, I basically 'cause he's probably like five when she was born in the in her mother died in childbirth while running away from the the seventeen Dems during the rebellion. So I'll he's ever had washing over her brother who is depending on rich people who wanted to widen it to like have the green door like working with the tar guarantees with them. So she's always not been able to like trust anyone. She knew her brother's moody to like wash out for him being like crazy. So I think her coming in and being kind of quiet like looking out observant figuring out things as they go work in her favor. The for season with just what made her like a hero to everyone. And then you know, because you so like unversed and things that comes the. Which later on in the series because you see her making those mistakes that she's not practiced doing what she's which is trying to do. Yeah. I will say I liked. Being there for the developing her overall character has she came in there since well, she was she was prisoner for own brother had no agency at least in the in the show in a move in the TV show had no agency. No real power. If you will. But then within the span of a few sees student within the span of a few episodes was able to come into her own and in quite an amazing fashion with the flames and the dragons and all that other stuff. So I I liked I would say I like that it ration- of the Nares. Now, it wasn't until later where she started getting on my nerves because then she gets a little too big headed in my view. And then when you I don't know why hubris, but it happens a lot where you have this person who never had never been aware. Then they finally get to a point where they become enlightened send they take it off the deep end. We we see that happen as we travel through the season of through the Susani the series. But for the first season, I've really loved how she grew as a cat. I really loved how she came into her own and was able to then become her own age in a change. She's hurt her being observant working her favor. Like she saw that like her her trying to like think like her brother did while being married Drago was going work out. So she was like let me do what makes how Drogoul happy and bad actually, really smart like sh shoot of her to do because she's pregnant and her brother's going crazy offer non wants to take over seventeen domes. Why haven't they done it yet that golden crown moment? Oh my gosh. Like. Coming. It just came if you just like he just took his belt off it in that they go pot. They took it pulled up that pot through on his head. And I was just like oh my gosh. Talk about a golden crown like that was ridiculous wasn't like a joke to they was like, I guess you're not a dragon since it burn him. And he was dead. Love it animates to joke. I loved it. I love it. I love it notice definitely one of my favorite moments because that was just something where I'm like, you said I had no idea of Trump even any new those coins in melts poor head, and I won't even lie for a split second. It was just I can break in bed with my Mans. When he got blown up like where I thought he was going to survive. Visits or whatever was like really dragging. I thought he'd walk around weeks. He's way too. Weak sauce for that. He ain't got no, drip. Like, nah, he was. No, no out. I thought he was going to walk around with that joint for the rest of his life like blind go on. People are like wherever he goes. Gold phase when you're like. 'cause he was like, you know, you'll have a crowd amid will fear. So I taught my man's trying to be like. For the rest of his life long. Now, you don't and. After that Danny quickly learns gifts, right? And she does have such a great progression. Over the first season. I'll give it at. It's just later on ages. You know, does not I'll know on. No. No, no. So I think we've covered all the major factions of families who were introduced in the first season, right? Is represented by and. And yet is good grounds that where where the nearest Sarah's in job. Everyone is Esso's the other region of the world's. That's why they're too hard time pulling together the boats ships in everything they need to get over to west rose cause associates own little thing. Also, we have my man's defray. You wanted to one fray, but it's the other fray, but you have him his quick introduction. And another of Rob's terrible moves where he agrees to marry this woman that he clearly doesn't want to just so they can get their armies through the phrase, Lance, and really that's not the terrible move part of it to me. Terrible move comes when you don't live up to your word because it's like you gotta do dumb things like that in this world. I feel like to start just continually it nor to world they're living in and they they have enough history with this world begets family. They're like the ghost and Tommy. They just say somehow got to prominence, and I just don't understand. How is Joel make it? Say what the sites how do they get where they up to like, it's like they've been in their own little northern keenum this whole time down south or west. I ain't going to do whatever they want, you know, and all their betterman have always like held high regard for them besides like Bolton's or whatever as you'll see later. But for the most part, you know, everyone respects them, they do what they gotta do as like the lords of the northern realm. So nobody really like pushes for them. But you can see the limits or smear them and other from the south near them because it's kind of like who goes up there. You'll even like Ryan any life major export up there in the cold by yourself. Everyone else they're doing an expert or something. So they don't they don't think about the socks like that. No, that's not what I'm saying. You know, fully understand again. But the Starks at like they haven't been here. That's my problem. And they've been there before. They were involved in the rebellion. They were right. Right. They weren't like running the world. They were just like killing people. There's a difference. Look, we all okay. At this point. We can we know the spoilers for people who have caught up. You have you. Episode. I mean, it's too late now. News. We know what live knows, you know. We know where he's been. He would write dare he knows how does jets down. General. He's a good like fighter. He's not. He's no one's ruler. He's like, you know, he's not going to bring them because he doesn't he doesn't want to rent a kingdom just wants to run his little his land up. Right. He doesn't want anybody to impede that. If that's why he was prepared to come down here and the deal with all these people because he doesn't do it. If people on regular need is was there to fight. And then he went in fought and then left like he wasn't ready for all that politics court use on your bed. Ben if you look up in dictionary the phrase stain your lane, you'll see a picture of net. Start. Pockets of all that extra shit. Is cool with his park place and boardwalk area where he is, you know, a Baltic avenue. Really? But he's cool where he is. And is cool. Like, she said, you know, like he he aimed auto smoke at all. So that's why he was acting brand. New auto smoke started happening. He was like, whoa. I not sign up for this Baltic fem, purple one. Right. The brute, man. Okay, fax. But no once again, though, he been there. That's all I'm saying. It's like I get that. I get it. You know, he wouldn't you should stay in your lane 'cause Ned right away. Whether or not Caitlyn is influencing him he jumps out of his lane and jumps down with something. He can't deal with. And then try say choice you act like he did it 'cause he was trying to be with the shit's. He he had had no choice. But, but once you get there, you know, how to game goes people tell you. How goes and you still? Yeah. This word for their word. So I listen to words not like. Thank you like that's what I'm trying to say. Like, bent you. Call him a sucker. I guess I guess we think about. Right. But he stated his is at the end of the day. And that's probably why for me it hurt. So mad when he when he got beheaded because he's an honest, man, he ain't with the smoke stained his he's doing everything that people tell you on the internet. You should be doing don't count other people's monies out of me and all this other stuff and go getting killed. And he hasn't been killed yet. I think it shows in the way that like he wasn't ready to he wasn't prepared linger and his treachery. Like, he was in ready because he didn't know he literally just doesn't deal with that. He didn't get it. And I think men, and I think it shows to in various went in like visited Ned while he was like imprisoned before his the heading and Berges talking to him because barris kind of look at it at him with like pinions is like. My. Already is like hatlin is the one who senior she New Britain Britain Moore was on on the ground chew. Like, she's also kind of naive because she believes like little thing got over their childhood crash in its awhile. All okay in its he's never gonna crazy and she's not as well. But it all against them. Because what happens, you know? Caitlyn's very selfish. And that's also blinds her for making a essential decisions or making the decisions that that lead to doom and then just just back to Ned. There's playing checkers while everybody else was playing chess McCain hope it also she got four idiot sons, you know to. Only one is like a real idiot it, but all of them are, you know, less than stellar and. Well, your son's less than stellar, ma'am. Just Baltic avenue boat boy over. I think I'm gonna go back to Daly said I think in win we episodes about how like if it's hard because we have these like these boys are making decisions in the show any like grown young men. But in the books are like fishing making like teenage boy decisions in shows. Tina toy decisions coming out in the show. But we don't have the vantage point of them being young men like young teenagers making these decisions are not making really good decisions. They don't do it. But it just looks really better moves than this. Their whole the whole USA got invaded. You know? And the same token like aria comes through in REO leg. She's not like the most like Sark, but she's real stategic. Like, she knows that she's still figure stuff out real flake, she likes. She's watching ready to move. Ars genius. And you know, pretty much every horror film deals with teenagers dealing with way worse than this. And these kids sucks either way Oreo. Are you as another one who much props we got to speak about quit minute? Because she from the Kate is about that life and tells everyone about this life. I'm about this life mom, then about that life. I wanna kill people was good kill people. Because she has been very determined and direct Arias a camp record. She has to be because she knows what she wants to do. She's not with the games and she execute. She says this is what I want my life. And this was gonna happen. It don't matter. What you do to try to stop me. I'm gonna make it happen. The girl decided to the skies as a boy to be able to get around the world. How smooth is hell is it bringing even from earlier before everything goes down like I say right away. Dan, I wanna kill people. I'm not trying to be a lady she did it did it. Do on his crochet shit. Give me give me audits. And that's why FOX were her so heavy. She's my with the stuff that's not going. She's not with the traditions. Nor is she with the aspect of kind of as you say a lady in weight like she don't want that life. She wants a life that is full of decision full of adventure and full of actual living. Not just kind of being to the side and being this beautiful Queen because she sees she sees through the veil. She sees through the games because as we as you see what happens with arms, they're like, oh, I wanna be this. And I want to be that. Because that's what it means to be a lady and that shit blows up in your face like aria saw beyond that. From the gate, and that's one person who I'm really hoping rates return into last season is the sword dancer from from Bravo's. 'cause my man has wanted to Ila slide the whole series that I don't feel has even been referred to since when he talks about there's only one God. And that's death. And what do we tell death is not today? And he's last seen fighting Opel's dudes from the Lancasters or wherever, you know men. But it's you know, he said even din it's not today. So I'm hoping that we see him again in some form or another, you know, maybe just hopefully anything so it's way. So we've never this all these years have never been revealed what happened to him. So so let's Harvey. No, he could potentially be alive. I think thing. Thing inside because he was facing the linens Thurman or the day the king's guard who was facing them or with not only the are. No, the city watch who's facing the city watch with you know, if you remember the scene he was practicing sword dancing with aria they're using running soil to practice. So you're if he's going against a whole like troupe of city watt with like actual metal soars, and he has his little wooden. How long do you think is going to ask he can make it? He's a mean, I want to believe he's still alive. But I also I'm here. I'm already ready all the great characters have died on. Sure, they're just like he's dead. I'm sure he said, I didn't I I'm hoping if in a maybe the books get finished in English up in the book in, but I don't know of TV show Porsche said I want to believe his live. But also believe in common sense. But what we've awful. After years of watching is this this show, don't be having no common sense. And that's displayed by each of these crazy as that get me. Speaking of crazy decisions we got one. I think other person we have to talk about because I mill everyone wants to hate is miss Sanza Misawa start see. See, you know, what the hey, you know, what? You know, what that hate that? I've had her for for for years pass. It was only because it's it's I realized not. So she was misguided and Porsche you've made a good point. The fact that laws of how they're supposed to be aged for the show at the end of the day. These are children. These are people who are making the seasons and a vacuum people were making decisions as a young underdeveloped person would underdeveloped in a sense of they don't they haven't had all the life, skills and training and experiences to help them. Make informed decisions. They're just doing things that seem cool right now. Just like I had said before about are you not want to be like with Sandra wanted to be that lady and be the Queen and surface. Oh, beautiful. And I want this. And I want the pretty dresses, you know, the whole Nicki Menaj wearing wearing a fucking crown type stuff. Like, she's only seeing what's in front of her as bright in front of her as opposed to what's beyond that. So I it's just too when we talk about naievety I- sonza is in the dictionary. So like at least at least when she was younger. So I don't fault her as much as I used to for being dumb is just that she was Jong and didn't know no better and didn't realize the error until she had to go through abuse, and torture and all the rest of this stuff is like she had to literally learn what it meant to be an adult in west arose in in this game of thrones. Relation. Yeah. I think like my paper was personal like literally just like, she's an older sister. She she bought into the fairytale. She's like read other stories, she's loved her whole life and she likes curly things. And I'm like, those are like components of me. And that she was just like she was violent enough to like tell be pissed off at her sister's the Dr with rain off in like her dog, I kill the death legit. But like hold on against your sister for just being herself. Like, unlike you can't fragment it's kitchen, we're not gonna. Yeah. It is. It was those very like initially like this is all like personal begins like, I don't like Santa for like this like little personal stuff. But if another thing about her is that it's sad that in her trajectory that it goes through so much abuse in this show 'cause it's not necessarily what happens in the books issues. If not I just hate that things happen to her that going forward most show that are so extreme in. I'm hoping that her character never has to that in the book because do hasn't had you so far. I'm good thing. You brought that up, and please, you know, elaborate further, but I remember that if I if I'm really thinking, correct? I remember that being a big situation big deal. I R L because to your point she was subject to so much abuse. And rape. And all this other stuff that in your saying that never happened in the book. Yeah. Like in the book, she so she's always believe in fairy tales like I mentioned in one of the. Fairytales? Choose heard her whole life is about like the full who like ran off this lady, LA or whatever so late in Greece's this who's advantage, the pack that, you know, this is part of her core. And he gets the full of king's landing to become friends with her, and they become friends, and he the full leads her to the vote, which gets her up to her aunt's land in the line of John arns land of the Irie, and that's how she stayed. So she doesn't have to stay. She stays at court jockey dies during during his wedding right after that happened. She dips out. She ends up in the Erie because little finger maitre shoes on a boat to say he gets the full killed. So the full like Disney able to a friend anymore, and that all happens because the tyrel 's started talking to her later Alina and was like, oh, you know, what censor sitting around here martyrs like Mary Joffrey how? How about we get you to marry our air of our land in in the south. And so Santa's already to go that. And she told. Thirsty like a dummy. And that's when all this stuff takes sick. Right. Right. Right. I think one of my favorite moments rewatching it. And they're really made me realize why Santa isn't like to blame be blamed that much is when they come upon her sister, the butcher's boy playing with swords and everything goes horrible, just bream in your ruling. Waited such like encapsulates everything right there because she's just believe in this fairytale. She believes she's going to move to this faraway land and meet this beautiful prints, and they're going to get married and have children and have his beautiful blonde hair. All once again, this is what I'm just saying about kitchen like when you when just looking at it, objectively, it's she is not an it's not because she's and evil is not because she's Joffrey female Chaffee. It's because she's a child and thinks like a child, and it's not thinking, objectively it's not thinking it's being it's being led with her emotions and everything else that comes along with being a person that has not gone through life fully. So because of all that when you really think about it, and you can't be all the way mad at her. Yes. From a personal standpoint, she's a dummy. But from from a whole world view point is just like. She's just reacting like a kid. Maybe you as a kid was was a little better than that. I know I was, but I know plenty of children who will be crying acting wild and make the poor decisions because that's all they know. And that's all they want. No, no. If you told me of age life, fourteen even maybe even up to like sixteen I think even be down for it. But if you're like yo been you're going to move away to another land and married his Princeton. No. Not everybody. But a zoom plenty of kids. Who would be like, oh that sounds like facts was do it. Because. Do you believe in that fairytale? And as you progress in game of thrones, you see like how much believe in fairytales flex with everybody. There's there's the whole thing is Mullah fairytales full of people who were leave these fairytales, and the people who time people who believe in the fairytales strongest ends up being abused or killed because of it. Yeah. I think Tyrian is my favorite because he uses like the whole idea of like fairy tales pokes fun at it. But in whatever he's confronted with like the wall and the incident was actually going on. He's like, oh, this is legit. Like like he would be like thirsty in the final season or in the seventies. And where they needed to bring. White Walker to the kingdom. Like if you told him was a white Walker after the meanwhile, he's like, oh, yeah. Sure. Yes. Pretty sure there is I am good with sin. The kingdom. Let's do this. Because he was like he was making fun of rump gains in arcs everything whenever he was on his way to the wall withdrawn. But when he was at the wall, and he liked cut was confronted with actually going on. He was like, oh, this is the whole different worlds. I'm not input that pass you. But but point he'd also seen drag up close, and he was the one who's like you. I gotta see a dragon interior gets a lot of love, you know, while his brother and sister, get all the hate and. Only the people only from fans people in the world are like. From the fans for fans. Yeah. They consider him wanted. He was a story while my peoples get left out in the cold. And I'm not going to stand for that. And we're definitely going to have to talk about Syrian more nets week as his, you know, he really becomes more more. You know, he had his we had the introduction this season. We had him. We had a what's on. I'm Sasha, right? Shorty comes shea shea shea giving her name. I'm treat it or any oil. The TV real Bron. My man Bron ahead. His, you know, probably one of the best intros and just his whole Brian is just don't, you know, like, I mean, not brought Brian is the brother, right? Who's? That's right. That's right. It's braun. He was fired Braun just brought us Firelight throughout the whole series. I don't think he's really had a bad moment yet. He the only man was some sense. Been students read into it. Yeah. He's not like a nobleman. So he'd never had to like sit in being mill politics. He can stay on the side and be like commenting on them being crazy 'cause he's like all are doing a little bit too much. Dr just you're not thinking this through. I I'm outside. I don't have any six game. Just give me money. And I'll go where the money is like, I'm good. Money oriented. He's only thinking about his bag. Okay. Yep. But he's seeing things he's been all over the world. So he's well traveled. We also didn't mention of Germond. German. Yeah. By became deniro, start stalker. Yeah. Yeah. That's evident from the first he meets her two. That's all like, the groundwork is all laid for all that. So. And then she's young. He's all of in like her face the ill canoe from our just need to down. You know, he's trying to write being in his own way in a. I mean, it's a lot of Said's gray here, folks. Like, I say the spider might be a one true good person. You know? And you talking about Giora, right? Is Joran not joined right? The spiders the only good person is. I mean here. Pretty good. Okay. I mean, he could when you said he was all about, you know, the the realms as opposed to one person or one thrown economy minded me Papa pope like is all about save the Republic and no one else. But then it's just like. But what about on individual those people not matter? So I don't know. I don't know it could it could be debated. But I think overall to me he's made a decision that I think are correct. Verse will murder point goes. Yeah. He'll he'll do anybody in. Only will do in. If you pose a threat to Republic, right? So there's two different ways to go about it here. Either Papa pope or your Nicola. Right. Like, you know, like you're the same stance. You know, like, I'll do anything for my countries. Like, I don't might say in me doing the right thing. I'm what I judged writing to be an issue whether or not you agree with what they think is the right thing to do. I think bears is pretty good about telling that line. He he kills later on kills like Lancaster cousin who like was gonna come up in after Taiwan dies the father. He's hope about and he just like, nah, the owners, then you're dead. And it's like them in the shadows in secrets, nobody sees it. I think versus really smart, and I wouldn't put anything past them. I don't know. He doesn't like his thing that he doesn't have any states in sitting on a throne because he can't pretty soon. The I he doesn't have that like that driving him. So he's always just likely. I he stays really like well on that like thin so like doing the right thing. Okay. Basically, you you either, you know, you die Koiei or you live long enough to be public. I live. You know? That's all I'm saying because eventually even Quaid had to do some horrible pains to save Kanda offers to it. You know, doesn't come country over fellow man. Well, yeah. You know in the end. All right. And speaking in almost to the end is episode of castle black. Thank you all for listening Tatyana Porsche. Thank you for joining me. You know, this is awesome. We'll be right bednets. We hopefully, you know, but we're we'll, you know, we'll work it out. But before we go, we do wanna have some listeners questions on the four all nerds. So we have the gig Whitley ask questions where we answer all the key questions. But now we want to answer all the game of thrones game of thrones related questions. Anything at all. It's you wanna know you can hit us up contact floral notes. Yes. Put into subject castle black. We're looking for a name for this segment. You know, we were thinking recently question. Dr. Or letters to the black lettuce the black. These really is fuck shit now. Hey in a shout out to my boy reek. Yeah. So, you know, hit us up contacted for all nerds dot com and shoot us the name for the segment shooter, some questions, whatever, you know. Thank you anything goes before we get out of here. Just make sure you subscribe. We are on all platforms. Soundcloud, apple podcasts, YouTube everywhere Spotify. But honestly, we're anywhere. You listen to podcasts you can get us. And if you wanna hear castle black you have to subscribe to nurse that is the only way you get to listen to us. So definitely do that. You can always hit us up as Ben mean said on contact at four dot com. Head up the website for owners dot com. Will you be able to get links to all them as ING shows and articles and everything we talk about. And of course, follow us at four nerds on the interwebs on social media and also castle black pod. Witter and revive that. Bring a bag. Already real fun. Might do some live viewing of the new season. You know, whatever like we said before hit us up contact at four on earth com. Any idea you have anything you want to see from castle black in this new season as we recap the old seasons and get ready for the final season of game rooms where BA Lancaster's Jamie will sit on the phone with various aside.

Whiteman Ned Porsche Starks Robert John ARIN Caitlyn Jamie Meg king rob Caitlin John snow John McCain Ben I Gary uncle Benson Casablanca murder Lancasters Porsche Dan Danny Tarin
Not Enough Brienne in Your Diet

Cinemavino

46:22 min | 2 years ago

Not Enough Brienne in Your Diet

"Welcome to cinema vino. This is going to be another Minnesota breaking down episode to season eight of game of thrones. And I'm Todd Wofford. I'm here with my buddies Taylor. Owens and Travis bud who oh we retired the redacted middle name redacted prince's return. Yes. The prince who was promised. Nazi? Travis house redacted Travis Travis of house, bud. Who's banner is a corgi. Prancing across a field in green just accused feet. Feet. I forgot what our house words were. Stout. Hearts little feat. Yep. That was it forgotten. Bill fluffy. But she's so now for the content that you came here for episode two. Yeah. Game thrones. What was the title of this upside? Oh of podcast. No game. Thrones. Oh, six nine. Okay. Yeah. So according so when I turn it on again, I'm new with the game of thrones. I powered through starting in January when it came on HBO. Now always said was game of thrones season. Eight episode to sixty nine is the name of this episode sixty-nine wildly inappropriate was some of this. If it's not it was like, oh, this is sixty ninth in the series. I see Beavis and Butthead moment. Yes. The other day. You're like, oh, so close four twenty one. We're Dan close to having episodes sixty nine on four twenty and wealthy. That'd be the end time. Yeah. So yeah. And we're drinking a little Spanish wine with our discussion because a good chunk of game, thrones filled and Spain cluding think all the pretty much scenes in Dorn, the tower joy, and I think a good chunk of DNA scenes in marine in the pits the harpies and whatnot. And hey, who that's all in Spain? I feel like this wine like these grapes could have one hundred percent been like grown in garden. Oh, exactly. Yeah. Instead light the night of flowers would approve but she would so. Yes. What we're thoughts on the episode as a whole. Oh, we have we locked eyes. Slowly, they're. Yeah. Also, we we need to have a we're going to go ahead and start this Travis sometimes talks too much. We're going to come up with a code word for like Trump's fuck up much. I'm workshop and muskrat. But you guys go ahead and do what your heart. Muskrat big Runamuck. But it was everything I thought it was going to be in more. It was a quote unquote filler episode. You know? Character backgrounds. It's what it needed to be leading up to the next episode. And so I wasn't surprised at all. It was going on. I was I guess a little bit more like death than story. But it was a great episode. Don't get me wrong. It was a great episode. But at the same time, I was like man, can we just get a little bit more? But I know I know they're leading up to this huge battle next sewed. I like everything brand still weirdest shit. I don't really understand. What's going to have what Jamie? Bream getting knighted obvious. I thought was kinda weird. I don't the only can think of is that when she was getting not enough. Oh crap. I was like she's gonna die of all the characters like your stone that out there. And I was like man, and it was also -rageous long seen. I did like that they were all sitting around, and they're all having drinks knowing damn well that the end the end of their lives is imminent will we're we're going to die. So let's get drunk, but still like this was a very long seem to get knighted committed. Use of mouse is. One more thing. But still it was a great episode for what it was meant to be. It was meant to be the filler for what's going to happen in episode three. So you just brought up something that I didn't quite realize it I, but it was all these are like you don't ever get to see. People just hanging around just drinking and just being people hanging out. I mean, you can you'll see Braun fucking brothel or whatever and somebody will walk in like, hey, Brian. We need us Jesus. But he's doing taking some me time. But it's Tyrian over and over again, and I can think of three scenes one the first one was where. Before they have some battle in season two or something. I think maybe even. Where he is first meeting with Braun, and he meets up with shea and they have like play drinking game. Yeah. Tent? Like, basically they play. I've never. And then later on when he marine. Yeah. He's hanging it with great room. Sandy, and we don't drink like fuck teach you how to drink then. And then this scene team like Tyrian is the most humanizing person because he's like did you wanna drink was like, no, I'm not going to have a drink in Davos sees like torment co- come in and be fucking weird shit. I might have that drink like this is gonna need one. But it's did take a while. But I kind of liked it because it was one of those weird and human moments and then it did play in. I mean, obviously, you got a. It wasn't just a Dead Sea new gut like a historic thing out of it. And character arc ING moment. Like somebody on Twitter was like we got to love scenes in this episode. Brian just got knighted like did was. Jamie toucher with a sword. Heo? But I I liked it. It was a filler episode. But like it was a lot of fan service is good shit. I'm gonna try and break it down later. But what do you think off? I think we'd have called it with our last podcast coming in what we predicted. It was like it's the return of the king or the rings with psychos too breath before the plunge, but it had that feel of famous quote about I think it was American war again time referencing this a soldier described his life as long moments of tedium punctuated by moments extreme terror. This is kind of that build up to that that tension in the air before the battle happens, and it was similar to me. I thought the sequence and saving private Ryan were there all holed up in the church, and they're all kind of waiting, you know, you hear Tillery in the background yada, yada. And they finally get Tom Hanks to open up a little bit and start talking everybody sharing stories and yada, yada. It's kind of like to get the minds off of it. A lot of this episode's characters trying to get their minds off of what's about to happen. I mean, obviously, he's with aria talking to the hound society. You know, I'm not going to stay in here with you miserable guys. She goes off and does her thing. Yeah. It was a good a good episode. I guess is like, I don't know. I know what they're trying to do. But at the same time, I was like man, you just need something in. They're like give us a little bit more. Then again, I just powered through seven seasons in like, two months. So it's just like for me like give me the damn answers. It was like I got to know. So I'm not as patient as some of you guys. So actually did some homework. This time. I thought we could maybe kind of break it down like seen by seeing like at the very beginning where we left off with Jamie stern at brand. And then boom he's like right in the hot seat as well. Pardon before we get to that new intro not much change. But you could see the Nike army did go farther down wall approaching winter Phil, and what was interesting is that when they were having the council, and everybody's standing around looking at the deal, they have those exact same tiles of the map like they're in the middle of winter fell reason, I was like, oh that's a little cool nod to, but so we get Jamie on trial in front of deniro Santa and John. Would you guys were your thoughts on that? I thought it was good obviously, Danny talked about like, hey, this is what I want to kill. You basically was like I I went to injure you. But everybody else was like, hey, I mean, it all serious like. Hey, we need every man we can get with John said it's like we can't just kill people right now. Like he wants to fight. He's the fight. And so I was like I get that. And you know, I thought it was of course, brand is completely. I mean throwback to season one. But still it's like goddamn brand. He goes this weird again in nobody else knows what you're talking about. And there was you know, Jamie tell you what I can't the actor's name is. But he's Norwegian alster. Danish. Oh, what a hell of a look that. Look like oh shit. That was great act. Yeah. That was good luck. He was like oh shit. He was like, this is when the other shoe drops. Yeah. And so I was like, okay. That was pretty cool. I mean, it was it was such a great because I think the actors in the show do a great job of conveying a lot of emotions at once. And that was like oh shit like and also how weird is this kid moment at the same time. Yeah. Like what the hell, you know? And but the whole room was probably thinking that to God this kid is just bizarre. And he's sit the next few plays out. But you know, this two episodes reveal that brand is weird. But also has a lot of strategy going on. Oh, yeah. It's travis. He retained about him giving our the dagger and season six there was a purpose for that seven. Sorry. Yeah. Little finger gives him the dagger. He then in turn gives it to argue because he's like, I'm not gonna need it. Are you then uses it to kill little finger? A lot of anytime you hear brand start talking about stuff you have to be like what are his alter motives? He just trying to slowly because he can't affect like most magic. You can't affect people's like will like you can't take away their own force. Will you can't be like in a low fantasy like this all you can do is like kind of do things to steer them in a direction. It can be an influence Jesus. Well, Hello ran is an Instagram influence assure shows now you now you haven't asked me about my skin care. My skin care regiment. We did have a minor discussion before the episode right now, we had a few drinks Poos fucked up. It does make you think a little bit. Because in the episode before brand tells Sam like he has to know now like someone needs to tell John now. And so it's like. Implying like yell at him. No because something's about to go down. So if anything that's leading up to maybe what happens next episode. I don't know. And I think that obviously he's let's Jamie live four purpose because Jamie's going to do something for somebody that plays an overall role. So he is he basically he's letting this chess piece live. Guess it's going to help checkmate later. Yeah. And if we're talking about right now. And now that I'm thinking he's going to save them rant was like she's going to get ready to die. He's an swoop in that would mean the Tyrian. Not to kill, sir. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's got to be one of her. Well, I'll have to go back and look, but she gets just handsome. I think it's got to kill looking. It's got to be one of her brothers unless they again, they acidy they gotta get fucking Sandia me like what is valid car mean. And she can be like, well also could mean this and this, but so when they're sitting there and Bryn pops up, and she vouches for Jamie, and she's like, yeah. Fight beside him as well. She started telling stories like oh shit is she going to tell the story about pointing they were like inspire inherent hall. And he tells the story about a gone when he killed the king. And she's like, why don't you tell people that like one hundred percent thought she was going to tell that story to try and get him out of some shit with Danny? But also, I thought brain was gonna be like, that's interesting. I'd like to take another look at that. And go back and look at that moment, and that be somehow in they're cool. Yeah. So they still might do that if people live, but the thing I was thinking of. Yeah. One he killed her dad. She was young. So she didn't really know it ad, but yeah, it's it's basically because of him that she's had the life that she had. And I totally forgot the last time they saw each other. He was galloping towards her about to try and run it through and drogue on and he fell into the deepest fucking lake ever. He Jurassic Park the shit out of that on clocked him. And then it was like, oh, suddenly this thing that clearly a few steps to it. Like, oh, it's all of a sudden sixty feet deep. Sores on your dinosaur. The there was definitely a motif to me forgiveness characters that needed it or sought it Jamie with Danny. Jamie with brand. There's an illness that I thought with Jaime and Brienne Sansa and Danny. Interior that Danny interior, even Giora and Leon, I'm warm. There was there's a lot of people that need conciliates. Yes. Before the end times basically before. And like I said before we started we had a few conversations. Like, it's at this point where I think you think everyone's going to die. Okay. Screw it. Everyone's going down this next episode at this point. I think the exact opposite of site. Now game of thrones is doing everything different now. Like, nope. Every buddy lives they are going to defeat. They're going to hold onto trying to shake his head about. It was like maybe they just also curve ball. They actually hold winter fil. Yeah. They're just like, hey, we're gonna hold it. And. Walkers like, screw this. It's like, you know, like winter fil where does he go to king's landing this? It's like, yeah. Yeah. It could be the old like faint act like Unitech winter fell in reality is this is not the real attack. It's actually. Yeah. So all right. So I've got several things I wanna wanna keep this episode kind of short. But so Giora after tearing gets slapdown by being shitty hand Giora ball people goes to talk to her. And it's like no this dude is like like he's legit. And he's like, yeah. I want to tell you to do a couple of things maybe. And he's like goes don't go so hard on him. And then he was like, yeah. And one more thing, and then you see her immediately going to talk to. So you're like I watched I've watched it twice now. But I've hundred percent thought that like, okay. So his other thing was she needs to go talk to what I didn't notice until. The second viewing is that. When they're in the council. And she tells Tyrian that no you go about blow the crypts like, you're the only other. You've got they do show Giora like look sideways and kind of personal ABC's like oh shit. Was that his second deal? And the other thing about that is that and the gloss over it real quick because you always they always indices in making what more after the council Tyrian looks over sees brands in there. And he goes you've had an interesting life. And he's like, well, I don't have time. He goes. Well, if only we were surrounding the castle couldn't fucking Lee tell me, and then they boom cut away immediately. So bran can a hundred percent fucking die from the night king. But Tyrian now has whatever knowledge they want him to have. Because all you see him the rest of the episode. He's just like. Drink gal drums. What I do best. And then he's like looking over the wall. And you know, he's going to go have to hide down in the crypts or whatever. So they'll hundred percent. I mean, I think Tyrian lives in this next episode. But brand like anytime, you do stuff like that like Giora, George fucking did Giora more Mont goes talks, Danny and he's they have that heart to heart. And he's like, hey, I apologize. One more time for all the shit. I've done she's like watering the bridge. He gets the heart Spain from Sam he's going to go out there. Fucking worm food. So that's one is Giora requests Tyrian into the crypts. And his look that he gives one thing. I've noticed that the show does really well. And this is a film school screenwriting thing that they preach is you always want your scenes to begin late and end early. So that, you know, where it's like you feel like you're getting into something that you accommodation that you wanna get involved in a mmediately like this is really cool. And then end up like that where it's like man I wanted to hear more of it keep it they can do that. And seeing after seeing after and that's how they hook you John and Danny interrupted by the horns. Yeah. Every they do that perfectly. It's like damn where's this going? And then they do that. And the next thing they do it in the next thing. Eventually I've watched eighteen up Susan row. Actually, that's that's accurate because the reason why you fell the night Bryant too long 'cause you're like oh shit. Drawn out a little, but the whole rest of the episode was just like like little tastes and take it away. So they actually give you one episode. One of my other go for it. I've talked enough I'll say we're gonna take a quick break. And we're gonna come back, and we're going to get some actually some more Spanish Reno. And then we're we're gonna talk a little more about this episode, and what we're going to happen in the next episode. Welcome back to cinema vino. We just leave it all in. Yeah. We were little lets users guard Nacho, which is also from Spain. So much of the show was shot in Spain. They have such delicious wine made since paramount for this podcast, and I'll post a link to this winery. And we learn more about at my website movie, reviews dot US, and this listen subscribe in rate, apple podcasts or Spotify. So yes, we were talking before him. I'll take you back in this in gear about what characters we think are going to buy the big one in the next episode. And I was thinking there's a screenwriting technique where when you give a character like an emotional beat you underline like you give them an emotional scene. It feels like that is a technique that you're gonna kill them you want to underline death with meaning and so travel. See you feels like a period on a character arch. Right swish. Swish boat was tied. Yeah. So grey, worm Sharon kiss with sandy. And then talking about like going hanging out on a beach and that he dated. That that one. I don't believe as I think he's going to. I think he you have to keep that love interest because they are they are quote, unquote lovers. However, you can love I just don't think that's going to end tiller. You don't need a dick to love. Okay. I'm this saying I'm just saying it's always been all my toy. That's all time. What they are the one love interest that is still strong. There's no way they do that. This is Georgia are Martin fuck this. This is Deby wise and tools Scoggins and MRs. But I think he is feeding them notes from well. Yeah. Yeah. From a dream of summer Z, or no, I'm not saying he's not gonna die. I in. This next episode is like. I do if I can go off the rails on with poject the first time, I saw it. I was like pod did not say anything in this episode until like the give him a song at the end. And it reminded me everybody of Pippin in the return of the king whenever he's like singing whenever ale Maher is going to get jacked up or whatever he when he sing in with death or and they have all the background of the horse shit. So that's what reminded me of. I went back. And I watched it and the one thing that I know he says and terrible, correct. Me here. But tearing his would you like want? He's like, oh, yes moored. And like I thought that was his only line. I was mad that he that even had that one. I was like no he would have been so much better as just like silent. Bob in the background, like an arching eyebrows. And then out of nowhere. Fucking padre. Start seeing Travis has got me on. On captions. I'm a closed caption guy. It's like I like to be able to read really what they're saying. Yes. You got me on that. And Joe is. Whenever Jamie shows up. He's talking to bran and like you can hear hollering yet. He's sparring that he's saying like come on. Now, keep your arm down. But I wouldn't have known that. If it wasn't for the close captioning see I wash clothes caffeine that first time in I didn't second time when I was paying attention. I was like shit. And that's that's Jamie's like he's getting good intially. He's okay. Well, they had a moment and emotional beat with Davos whenever he sees a little girl in line for food, and she has a scarred face of like shirring and Ilie because that one character taught them both how to read guess, and I didn't catch that until I watched the ringer dot com, which had some good shit. And I was like oh shit. That's that's worth note and this heavy on call Bax too. I mean, obviously brand call him back to the pilot episode. But there were a lot because the season and the previous isn't have been so rushed so quick that. It's like I said early. It's like a hurry up offense. It's sports where I really. Every team rehearses like what you do when the clock is running out. And you gotta get some points. Yeah. You know, they they given them a deadline now season eight is your visit. You got to wrap it up you got to go. And so they have to kinda hurry through it. And so a lot of this episode is calling back to when they didn't have to hurry through it. And so they're calling back to previous relationships between Brian and. Jamie, and even aria the hound yada yada, yada. So there was a lot of calling back to earlier more drawn out episodes. Lot of nostalgia. Sure. This episode is heavy on on reminiscing. And all. Nissin memory. Don't be laid. I could use eight seconds of that little river, man. I couldn't Calgon take me away. Cow gone. Ooh. For those who are coming to the cinema vino midstream. We often talk about who we would like to have a sponsor. I could see Calgon porn big little rich bubble bath that we can on these calls. I think the three of us could do a bubble bath podcast, three minutes. Three podcasts us tub in and out. This thing just got renamed. Reva dub dub, y'all. We're all going die. When somebody's phone Hopson. But you know, what would have the way to go. With my rose. Balls out in a bathtub just missing bubbles bubbling up Mr. bubbles everywhere. I see sizzling just a rubber Ducky on fire. I mean who would be the first one to like make themselves a Santa Claus beard that Mr. bubble beds me. Okay. I'm halfway there. Already. Have very silver beard travels or anything else that doubts you sorry. Good on you. There's one thing to me. But I didn't know if my jump in head of. Go ahead. One thing it was towards the end like, you know. You kind of knew the end is now like, you know, how long the show is going to be put the very end which you didn't see was the night king. Ooh. And I was like oh my gosh. It was like so. Usually the guy you'll see. Okay. So where is the night king? You see on his dragon somewhere is he you know, we mentioned it off cuff before for for the episode. Is it one of those psych outs? That Jamie apply. The Tyrian misdirection misdirection where he was like, hey, we're gonna send half of our army of the dead to winter fell. But the other half are moving to king's landing or a could just be straight up the nineteen by himself since he has the power for sure. So yeah, you're totally right. That he could just like fly across like the twins that big ass river. Oh, so my arm across this. And then there's so many fucking wars that have been happening. He will just raise up everything in between there and king's landing and have himself like a real quick other army on the other fucking side. This'll be probably a dumb question, but I have to ask it. So let's. Say Nike and comes through the crypts of winter fellow. So he makes it down there. All those dead people are down there and buried I mean, can he reanimate them? I wanna say, yes, I wanna say like Ned stark would stand up without his head and then start, and that's the other thing every person down there. That's that's buried like that is buried with a sword like to hold over them. And so that's why I keep wondering if like the statues are like the titan of Bravo somehow gonna come to life. It's gonna be forgotten magic that winter fil had because they built because winter fell is named because it was built on top of another winter fell type deal. So there's like crazy amounts of shit underneath it. So I thought like the statues were gonna come to life and pick up a sword. And go fight. I don't know at this point. This is the highest magic is supposed to be operating. It is height. When. In the night king is near so. Well, and like torment said when came back he was like, oh, where did you guys meet at like oh here. And he's like what about the numbers? Here's like, no. It was like. It is like if any whoever else along the way they fight for him now. And it was like so he kind of told it's like. People are going to fight for him. So you're going to bet you'll see a lot of those dead bodies is. And I want him to raise the skeleton dragons underneath the red keep remember they said in seasons past that they kept him domesticated and locked away. Same thing happened to Raygun array goal and vizier on they were locked underneath marine. They didn't grow as big as drug on who was out free and wild. And some of the last ones were as big as cats. Want him to go there? Just raise up all these fucking things, and you can see like little velociraptor sized dragons that just die like running around. They're like oh shit. We have a whole bunch like driving skills actually Travis. You just started something new. So you granted we do have four episodes left four five four four for. So if they demolished her fell, which I'm still busy on it. But they demolished it. They're going to go to king's landing. And what I kind of thought of like, they haven't really mentioned is it s throws right Esso's S O. So what if they do they go in there, and they destroy keys landing seriously dies, but you're still have to save save the world. And that's why I don't think grey worm is going to die is like I think he's gonna go back and he's going to save the. What does girlfriend's name sandy this? Any a were peaceful, people don't worry. We'll protect you. I took that as like that's going to be something the futures won't protect you Santa and Danny when they talk. Yeah. Thoughts on that kind of a mini beef. I was watching it with Joanna and one of his thoughts. She had was what if like, basically, Dan, he's going to ask to be one of her chief advisors or even replaced -tarian is or hand, especially when she starts off on the whole thing about, you know, we're we're dealing with the world. That's not used a women ruling and you've done quite well here and she's confident she's flattering her. It's like we know she she going to ask her to play a bigger part in what's coming. You know, obviously, she needs the north, but she needs Santa specifically. And so you know, that ends whenever the hadn't said leave the tension in the air at the end of it. And you know, we know what about the north? What happens that that kills that? Quashes that idea. Yeah. But to me that was Danny attempting to flatter who she thinks is going to be her future. Sister-in-law? Yeah. Well, also that does that scene where they almost reconcile. But at the end, they're like, oh, I see and Danny they've given hints that Vanessa's a little bit of the mad king enter that. She could be crazy fiery dragon. And that also so that scene, and then the one with John where he's tells her of his parentage and she's just staring him down. She slowly been like, all right. So I came to a place of friends who was like, oh, so yours like still fucking wanting your own place, the north, and you think you can have the red keep as well. Like everything is crumbling around her. So I'm worried that she's going to go fucking nuts flying her dragging around. And then decide to maybe try and take him out because the prince that was promised. He always. Say that he has to basically sacrifice a one he loves he activates his sword to become the fire sword the roller Lord of light, whatever by. By plunging into the heart of the one he loves and when he comes back out. It's a flaming sword. So bear daring in the way, he gets his shit. He's got like a small amount of wildfire. They say in the. In the books and that he just like, basically sparks it. And it will burn for a while. But it's like basically a parlor trick is not. He doesn't have a magic fucking sword. But you know, John's could be like the legit thing. Like, you could have long claw. And they could be further enhanced with fire or whatever, I don't know. But so that was my thought is that Danny could get killed could get fucking raised could get fucking white Walker. Depending I don't know. Everything everything's on the table right now. And that's why I think next episode was just going to be one. I asked about it. The battle. The battle at the wall with early on. It was like I feel like this next episode is just going to be the battle. Yes, you're gonna pricey one or two die. But at the same time, you're gonna pricey one or two fall that don't die. They die and they get ready. So there's so many options. I think next episode. This could be battle royale. We're gonna say or next episode Zomba fide. Yeah. I'm just saying they're going to they're going to kill several people. They're going to also show like oh shit or they're going to twist the knife. Gotten along. Is door coming for brand maybe and destroy for you say something this is going to sound weird. And I don't know the magic, I don't know the books. Let's just say that, you know, more Mont dies gray warmed is brand is Jamie and die. If you kill the night king like do they come back to life? If you kill them in a certain time phone now, we're okay? They hold drop. Okay. I was like are they going to be resurrected be like, oh, well, they died, but they didn't Foley decompose. So when he dies I'll resurrected be shitty ended up j k they all live now like fucked up. Yeah. Is there and Jamie and the where would and he like we both predicted. But he may have given Jamie some other, you know, something that he needs to know if he thinks that actually his line to Jamie at the end, like what do you why do you think is going to be something after this that could be brand straight up foreshadowing like, oh, no, you're not going to survive after this. Like, you know that he's going to be there. But no that Jamie is going to sacrifice himself in some way that he has to be there. Yeah. My next thing is. Torment fucking lane his MAC down last night on earth. Can we talk about this? Yes. Yeah. Torment is by far. It's a little little hashtag me too. But at the same time, it was just like, it's just he's just God love them. It's Gloria nineteen shoot your shot. Yeah. Exactly. And this is the big woman still here. Hey, hey, hashtag me to pour gingery like keep basically Andrea. Yeah injury. And he got attacked. It was like, so, hey, well, they did say that like, you know, are you was we're in the pants that she she basically, she she took the power and and more power to her. But she was like this was going to happen. This is what I want. And he was like, I'm not gonna say, no and also godly can you imagine being in those times the amount of clothes? You have to undress joined said that was a lot of levels. I'm buckling weapons respect to her. She's like take your own bloody pay. Also, also that all that leather like near undercarriage. That's going to be warm. It's going to be sweaty. It's going. It's just a hot box over getting off topic. I hop bye. One of my favorite scenes. I think it was in season four. Golly. They. The hound REM Mita Ori was there. They meet up with the band of brothers. Bannon brothers. What was it a brotherhood without banners? And they had those guys that killed that entire yet. So it was after he lost to bring in on the all the stuff, and he was wanting to kill one of these guys. They're like, okay. You can have one was like you can kill one of them kills them. Search putting his boots on? I don't know why I love that scene so much and he was just like putting these boots on that. I'm a why thought of that when they were all like under. Kinda like whenever the hound was still my guys boots. There's an elaborate time of like O's is massive undress into my some big ass boats. Where your socks, man? I just like torment trying to be timely topper on on on Jamie me like, they call you. The king killer. Some somebody that they actually made me laugh. He's like, you know, how they call me giant Spain. And Terry just side is like fuck is this going he starts telling his story and everybody was like cool like giant teats? Gotcha. And he's starts chugging the milk. I think he's just like he just wants to show brand. He's like watch me. Choke this milk or like, he's he's totally the whole my beer fermented goats Bill. Yes, none of that piss you southerners drink. Two big names were aria, and how people felt kind of itchy watching her disrobe. They showed a thing where it's like Google traffic spiked on how old that actresses. Joanna's reaction like my wife. She's washing say, wait a minute. How old is she is. She's got to be under twenty's by now. I think even traveling. I've talked about it before the episode. Is it was Gingrich gave aria his spear? It was it looks it. Looks CGI to me. I was like it was like it again. Yeah. Eight years ago, you so this'll child was like this is I mean, I know why they did it like she's coming of age or whatever. But it seemed like this was a little weak Dow, and then torment drinking from the horn was literally Horning. But then the visual symbolism when aria I sees Genry down there in the forge sweat will shot. Literally. He has like it looks like steam coming out his crotch when he standing over before it was like that is some heavy visual symbol. It's like his loins are on fire. He he dipped at spear tip and that water. Also, can we talk about weird theon Sanza like there's long there? Yeah. Also, he ain't got no Weiner, but tailored that's gonna stop him from loving. No. I mean. Yeah. Go down south, and you could explore anything mean like Doorns high garden going down hike. Yeah. It was it was weird. But I mean, I swear to God theon got to go. There was one care to this Scott to die. It's like, dude. You gotta go gossip could kill the night king. He could like resurrect called Rogo. He could sit on the iron throne, and like have one everything from people. And I'd be like are you fucking serious fan lived. Now. Yeah, reboot. Yeah. Always the first to say. Yeah. Joel schumacher. Yeah. It was a little weird seeing like theon comes back and give them a big hug, but like during the whole poject song. Yeah. She was just like longingly looking at down. I was like. Fuck kind of stairs this this fan. Yeah. I am a fan of that situation. We talked about Danny, and John and the Crips ex panther brand foretelling shit the night king left John alive, perhaps earn on heart home because we talked about his sweet accuracy with javelin javelin. He's Carl Lewis with king off somewhere else. Taylor's Esso's, not done. We'll come back into place Morales. Todd talk about your hurry up offense, storytelling. And that's the last my notes we cover that earlier of how they are. Now scrambling through story, which is you know, it's good. You wanna see this whole stitch together and tied up neatly? You know, so I think it's time, you know. I mean, don't get me wrong. I could watch four five more seasons of I love it. But. And I think we're everyone gets super into it. Because this is the last season. So you're going to get much more criticism. Just because like what the hell? This is our last last season, you're giving me this episode. So I'm sure some criticisms a lot more theories because you know, same way if I knew there were three more seasons after this. I'd be like I wouldn't give shit. Oh, okay. Whatever just from random episode don't give a shit. But because you know, there's only four last a huge battles about the half. And you're like. Guys got to give me more. Like, you can't give me a sopranos ending bullshit. And Mel Sandra is one hundred percent still coming back. Oh, no. Yeah. Sure. Like she's going to come in and maybe gotten another army for them like from old Valeria or she could be like guys. Guess what? I did. Yeah. Brought this back to life. The best thing you've ever said. Thought about that. She could be going out to get an army or all the rest of her religion that you've seen the whole time in marine in the Lord of lie because they showed some other random like gal. That was a red woman that talked to Tyrian I think when Danny was missing. And they also saw one out there like preaching, and they're like, oh, yeah. Small, but we're growing and they're like one hundred percent and be like who here will go help our Queen that saved all the slaves and they're going to have like, oh, cool. You got to go and company and SOC got got twenty thousand that's real cute. We get like, yeah. We got fifty thousand slaves that she is freed they're coming here to help dinners, and they're yeah. Don't see some elephants. Yeah. That's a good call about that. Like she returns with an army. All yeah. And she just lays it, she's like, okay. This is reward Lord light this guy. Brought back from the dead. We're here to fight tonight. King. Yeah. So I didn't even think about that. But yes, SOS hunger percents Dylan. Oh, here's the sale. Here. They are they're gonna get their ships. But yeah, interesting good comment. Because. Yeah, she's clearly still alive and she's wondering on the world yet. She just brought her unsullied and author Aki screamers. They haven't talked about anything about like all the like thousands that she saved from slavery. Bazeley? Interesting me. And now call Travis I'm intrigued sharp, you don't do much. But that was also. Hey, cow, gome Calgon take us all the way, I feel like this episode was like two professional. Start talking about. Damn tuxedo off and wearing it for forty five minutes. Somebody helped me with Cumberland tuxedo. Conquering on weird more about that comer bone. Tell me about them drill. Those. All right. I feel like we've brought down the. Of. Of. Yes. But anyway, Travis I agree next episode. I think will be a better way out. And I think the episode four will be catch up MAPA imam of what that was. This was Travis bud of house bud corgi on a field of green. Yeah. There's been other vino a many, so but not really many so full sewed. And we thank you. And. What is dead may never die? What we say to the God of death. To the old gods in the new or vice versa. The new gods in the old not today. Append the damn thing on Jamie, Lancaster. Dynamite? Also. Tired of being right all the time. Clap me in. No. That one. Welcome back to movie, reviews dot US were drinking a little Spanish wine cinema vino. Totta that debated man. We're off the rails. Okay. We're clinton. Let me. No, no, leave it. Keep.

Jamie toucher Danny interior Spain John Travis Travis king Tyrian Davos Travis bud Dan Todd Wofford Brian Taylor Game deniro Santa Bill fluffy Joanna Minnesota Beavis HBO
Electric Bookaloo: Eddard III

Game of Thrones The Podcast

1:19:15 hr | 5 months ago

Electric Bookaloo: Eddard III

"Welcome to game of thrones to electric kalou. Stand this week talking. Again with chad carmichael. Because of course the net chapter and chad's the net guy. So that's edward three. That's chapter sixteen and steven. I cover a man with that honour boy. Things are heating up season two Hake a quick note about steve. I've just learned another social media person. I don't know these things. But i just learned recently that four a up and coming comedian like steve is once instagram. Following is actually really important. It really does determine how much you get paid for. Gigs and whatnot. And i noticed. That steve's instagram could be more healthy than it is and i wonder if we because he's got a birthday coming up if we could all kind of go in and follow steve and try to increase his instagram following. By i dunno a thousand and that would just be a really nice thing for steve. And i won't tell him he'll just all of a sudden realized is that his instagram following has exploded and happen just about his birthday. I just think that would be a wonderful gesture. So ozzfest a u. s. f. e. s. t. a. u. s. f. e. s. t. And now here is bo. Smain iran iran iran more compelling character tyrian or corleones man leg. It's like a man. He's the godfather. Don't wanna i don't wanna talk against the family. But i will say the tyrian had a hell of a lot more material. And he's got some pathos to and it's kind of like so. So i think inherently more interesting 'cause tyrian is like what if rado bef- radio actually was everything afraid. I thought he was really super smart but no one ever took him serious because you know he's kinda scrawny in shrimp he in you know like yet some some things that caused them to have confidence and like if anyone ever gave the chance to like run. All the systems and toilets of of castro rock he would shine but no one ever does. I can do. I can do things jamie. I've got st. i got abilities. But he's actually got them right so that's like yeah if freight oh but frito weren't delusional is a hell of an arc. And that's what tyrians got gate. So i like this because i think clearly michael corleone is the more compelling character but the winner. This is framed. Is i gave you an either or question. Michael corleone for my money is the most compelling character in film history. Yeah and so if others usually considered tearing like even that little pause at like oh like. That's that's tells you how good tyrian is because if we're if if it's if it's a legitimate conversation between michael tyrian that tells you a lot about the kind of thing the george. Ken create at his best. Yeah and for my money. I don't know that there's anyone else like tyrian in any of the shows that i've watched i mean i guess you could say walter white is would would be you the conversation right. Yeah but he's still not like you know. This is particularly advantaged person who is in a disadvantaged position like if I don't like walt. Junior year was to have aids arc that That would be very similar to right. If i am the story with like walter like the last season. Let's say the last season was walter white's death and then you're going to do another. Six seasons are just about wall junior. I mean and you and you'd have to have a an actor that could carry it like like yeah. I wouldn't That would be. But i do think that like the other argument for tyrian is the napoleon argument you know when they're talking about troop strength and whatever and everyone's talking about you should have quality over quantity. Napoleon says yeah. Well quantity has a quality all of its own. Michael corleone lives in one book by mario peruzzi rights puzo Any lives in three films of variable quality. I think they're all excellent. But you know people disagree about the third one got five books and counting and eight seasons and there's just more of it so even as that you say that i feel like mike experience of the godfather third film is your experience of the final season of game of thrones. Oh yeah like. If everyone is like i grew up hearing that lag. Godfather threes abomination godfather. Threes terrible god boundaries. The worst thing you've ever seen it's so terrible. And then when i finally saw it after having a lot of affection. I'm like well. This is more godfather like it's not it's not gonna as good as the first the third one the second one but it's in a different age and it's a doing different subject material and i found out all that the the the roman catholic intrigue vary inherently fascinating. So i thought it was. You know like You know eight out of ten seven ten at worst. But i don't feel that way at all. But i i do feel that way about the the final season of game of thrones. I never i never started doing the hate watch So my experience was a bit different. All right i'll have to watch my step here. If you have a question for iran or anthony you can send those to book at bald move dot com This episode is brought to you by comcast because of covid nineteen internet. Traffic has spiked but comcast is prepared. They've created a powerful network with one simple purpose to keep customers connected since two thousand seventeen comcast has invested twelve billion dollars to grow and evolve a smart reliable network and now with many of us working learning and entertaining at home their coverage has helped millions of people stay connected when they need it most learn more at comcast dot com slash network. Jed carmichael welcome to chapter sixteen. Thanks for having me back. It is a chapter. That is dirty. And i kind of feel like we're not even the king's landing yet and we are playing. The game of thrones these close reads of these chapters have really brought home for me. What a dark place this is. And i was reflecting on how something we've talked about before that i i sorta like the hound. I find myself liking the and you know he's he's repulsive in this chapter And then i as i as i reflect on that it's like gosh i shouldn't like the house i it's not good for me but it's like it's hard to read a story so dark and you can't find anyone to relate with. You can't find anyone to look up to and even net. I'm just frustrated with him. In this chapter you know and it's just it's so dark. I felt that really acutely. When i realized that for sauna and aria their whole life their father could always solve any problem. It's like if ever there was an issue. Dad's gonna solve it. He's going to know the right thing to do. You know dad father knows best and if we get into trouble art has got all the power. He's a wise and powerful lord now for the very first time. These two little girls are realizing dad can't solve this thing. He is immortal just like every other every other man and not only that but he can't save my pet from being murdered. he can't bring justice to mica. He's gonna do the very very little that he can to try to feel like he. His honor still intact. Send send the wolf up north sir. She's not going to get this pelt. It's such a. It's such a a impotent. Powerless gesture strip true. So the small that the only real glimmer of light in this whole chapter is when ned is reunited with arya and hugs her and love some and that's the only good thing in the chapter is but even then it comes in but he can't say the day like he can comfort her now he can't but he's he he is not powerful enough to solve the problem. Yeah i'm going to jump right into the synopsis okay. Ned receives word that aria has been found and that she is unharmed. But she's been taken to the king orders from mcqueen ned curses. She hurries or tries not to hurry to the main hall. There he finds a crowd gathered including several personalities of state but with aria at the centre. Ned is furious that he has not been brought to him. I met has also sent for santa who enters. Just as aria gives her account of events in arias version joffrey was hurting mica and myriad only bit the prince a little. It's so so. Great in jeffrey's version. Aria and mike attacked the prince and sick. The wolf on him. The king is unable to judge truth on the matter. So ned calls forward. Sounds a to get a third witness. Sans claims that she has no memory of the event which enrages aria robert decides to end the matter by letting the father's discipline their children as they see fit but sursee demands. Justice for joffrey is ravaged arm. She wants a wolf pelt before dawn. Since numeiri has gone suggests that lady saunas dire wolf should be killed instead. Ned protests but eventually sends for ice and does the job himself after killing lady. Ned has an exchange with sandra could gain who claims that he's rundown arias pet quote unquote net expects to find the mira's body but instead learns that the hound has killed arias. Friend micha okay. Here's my sense of the matter. are you in. Santa are subservient to ned. Ned are subservient to robert. Yep but robert is in a way subservient to tie win which makes sir sees voice more powerful than it should be interesting and robert is also beholden to ned and so those two are standing on somewhat equal footing in this situation right. This is all very complicated. It is yeah. Yeah so so you say You think that robert is concerned or listens to sir sees concerns more because of his indebtedness. That taiwan is that something. You're sort of you're conjecturing yet. I'm conjecture because i'm conjecturing. The that i think that any room that has a latest or in it yet high winds shadow was there too. Yeah yeah yeah. No i did. I myself did find it puzzling. Why given that robert just seems to hate sir. Absolutely why he seems to listen to her why he feels like she can force his hand in these sorts of things. I i didn't really understand that. Reading this chapter in isolation. But i think your your theory that his indebtedness to taiwan just increases her power well sir sir z can be powerful in her own way. In fact she plays with roberts ego little bit like she says the man. I thought i was marrying. Would go track down this wolf and bring it back to me like like you think you're a hunter you know hunter when it really matters you're going to go to sleep and and i think that really wounds him. I feel like he feels like no in my heart of hearts before was a i was a bad ass. Yeah and i am absolutely the man that would track down that wolf and bring it back to you and yet he's just so tired and he just can't stand her and she knows it and she just presses that button. Yeah yeah maybe you're right. I got to say in. My role is a guy who likes ned star. Yeah yeah. I really agreed with ned being mad. That are you was brought. You know before this group of people directly and i think it was Just very dumb that they carry this this discussion out in such mixed company and i. I think it was just foolish. I mean this is not how you handle a situation like this. Well you do and this is also sees idea right right but robert. Yeah if when they're in public sir she knows it. She's got cards to play. Yeah yeah anyway. Even even then even once. They're there when the time comes. I mean there is a point in the preceding at which robert kind of takes control. He tells joffrey to be quiet he says. Are you going to speak first. And then is going to have his. Say and i just even at that point. I thought this is so stupid like what you should do. Is you should clear the room except for you know mark. Maybe arya in. Ned and robert and robert should hear what are you has to say and then you bring in joffrey and you hear what he has to say. But you don't let them hear each other stories and also you you know i mean i have teenagers. I know how this works like the way you tell whether they're lying. Is you question them. All the details and you really intensively. Make them go back. You say wait what happened just before that and you ask them for more details you interrupt them in you ask for you. Ask unexpected questions about You know where people were standing and and that sort of thing and then you can tell whether they're lying because they don't they they're not going to be good at making up all those details. And so i mean that's what you should have very different approaches to teenagers. I'm just saying if you want to find out who's lying. That's how to do it. I think that's how the police do it right so i think you're probably right doing this in public and questioning the kids as they're questioning them is ren li laughing joffrey. This is just. It's a disaster. It's a disaster. You're right that laughing. Is the big sin here because sir c and joffrey are most concerned with joffrey losing face. That's the that is the the great sen the signs and knows not to commit and search is all in on nat agenda right. Nothing that said room. Whatever said in the room has to be construed in a way whereby joffrey loses the least amount of face right. That's why it was important that this be done in in private sessions Robert ned and santa if they were alone robert net would have gotten the truth at sasa. Okay so here's here's a question of i. Guess as a question of parenting and this is mostly for parenting. Little one mountain necessarily teenagers but there is a school of thought that says children. Don't really have a good facility with the truth when they feel like the relationship a relationship is on the line. So it's like did you. You know angry voice. Did you take the cookie. The instinct of the child is to say. I need to say whatever makes this big person less angry right now and so. Maybe it's not important if they took maybe important to like to squeeze the truth out of them. Maybe it's more important to make them feel comfortable. Say look you know What are you took the cookie or not is not going to change the nature of our relationship and then of course once they feel secure then you can kinda like you know fit figure out. The truth of the matter is something that you can tremendous value. If that's if that's even important you know what i think is different kids call for different treatments on these sorts of and one of the most disturbing things to me in this whole chapter is that after the two stories are out robert declares. He's not sure who to believe and to me that just spoke to his his just ignorance about his own son. Yeah i mean this whole thing is playing with the idea of a would a wise king looks like in the ancient world at the very least a king was supposed to be a judge for some foremost kings was to be like solomon who you know he can he can discern the truth and and and acting in a savvy way judicious way whereby you know someone confesses at the last minute. And you know all of that. Roberts like the exact opposite robert can even tell when his own stupid son he his catt mutilating son is telling the truth right. Yeah it's crazy right again. This goes back to the whole roberts fool observation right so i think you're probably right that with sansa if they followed my playbook and they had private session with her a light touch would be the best approach you know. You don't wanna clamor up maker upset. But with arya. I think intensely asking her for details would be would be welcome because she would have them lying. Okay to kind of give the robert his props all right. Let's let me just call this out for what it is. Robert is generally foolish but he comes to the right decision in the end. I think he says ned you discipline your children. I'll discipline mine. Let's be done with it then. Sursee goats him. Any makes a bad decision but in that moment that was the right thing to do. I think that that was reagan judgment. Let let me up there. The words are right but do you think that robert actually intends to discipline joffrey. Yeah maybe i'm not sure. I mean first of all. He doesn't seem to know that joffrey misbehaved. So what's he gonna discipline joffrey know what he's gonna discipline joffrey for. He's going to say you let a little girl disarm you may and you made me look like a fool. I mean look care. who's at fault. You need to be better than this. And i don't know what he does your free but i think he. I think he might be disciplined. Yeah i do not think that robert cares about not do anything at all. You saying. I do think that he does not want to cross. I think he puts this whole affair out of his head. After he says those words. I agree agree. The word sounded. I think he puts the whole affair out of his head in. Doesn't that's what you're probably and and that's that's horrible. It is horrible. Joffrey should be in extremely big trouble for what he yeah. There's no doubt about that. Isn't that but the and my sense is that the hound does basically whatever joffrey says. Yes and my guess is that joffrey wants mike dead Because he was humiliated because mica might be able to corroborate a story. But for whatever reason. I think that again conjecture. Mike senses at joffrey has told the hound. If you find him you kill him. You bring him back i want. I want his body. I don't want him brought back alive. Yeah i think you're probably right. And if robert cared about joffrey he would want to know that. Yeah i think. I think you're probably right about robert care about being a father. I think he feels like maybe jaffrey's a lost cause or whatever. Yeah i guess you right a lost cause and and i guess he has no idea how to solve the problem. Joffrey is slated to be the next game. How old is joffrey. Because because the note that robert rights on his deathbed is that Ned the net will serve as king regent until joffrey his son. Joffrey comes of age. I don't know what of age means in this context. Because i thought joffrey was like eighteen years older zimin so of ice and fire says that he was twelve years old at the beginning of the book. Twelve jaffrey is twelve. That's what this wicky for. Some reason i value was old. Maybe i was thinking like we. I was conflicting him with someone else. I think faye much older. But so so jefferies twelve. Because i was thinking i was again when he gets knocked over and he says i'm going to tell my mother was thinking boy this case he is not kingly so it makes more sense for sure. He's he's yeah. I don't know how you feel about lourdes ren louis but i'm finding him delightful. Oh while i mean you know. It's really funny. Like in his reaction to the whole thing is definitely relatable. He's laughing joff rae. He's smart enough to say my brothers to kind. I can see myself to the door. thank you very much. I'm there's little parting shot to joffrey on his way out. I just really. I'm enjoying wrongly a lot more than i once did. So yeah. I enjoyed that too. It's just it's irritating that robert is conducting this in that environment. I mean he should. He should have taken better care to conduct this inquiry in a way that would result in good outcome so if all right so if my statement before holds water that this whole thing is meant to help jeffrey safe face ren lee is not helping. He's laughing at joffrey. He's belittling him on his way out. You really get the sense. That ren lee is thinking. This kid's a joke. Sure and you can kind of see like the groundwork laid a little bit here for like ren li thinking. This guy's a fool. His son is a joke. In what i should be king do you think. He's playing the game of thrones at this point i think he is at least in in a very limited way. And here's what i'm thinking. So if anyone else in the room was was as smart as readily they would come up with a story that allowed joffrey to save face but doesn't result in aria and sonza becoming villainous. Something like you know sauna coming in. There's something insane. This is a big misunderstanding. Joffrey was looking one way and By the time joffrey turned around there. Was this big melee. He accidentally got hit with a rock. The wolf came in. Aria was actually trying to stop the wolf. You know something that kind of like. Oh kids are kids are kids. It's all big misunderstanding. And at the end you know. Joffrey was acting bravely. Something like that where it's like a lie that joffrey could get behind. No one's smart enough to lie in that way right run smart enough to say my brother is being kind. I'll see myself out. Thank you very much. Yeah that's the kind of savvy that you need in this situation and the one guy with that kind of savvy has left the room right right so in that way. it's like. I don't know if he's playing the game of thrones but at least he's playing politics. Yeah he's better at it than Robert maybe well. Yeah no doubt about that. It's not saying much. i guess. Chat guest choice. Would you like talk about a character. A theme a powerpoint. Or shall you. And i climb the ladder of chaos I know you know you like chaos. Normally i go for the latter of k. On i I think i wanna talk briefly about ned is. You're you're the guy on the nega. So a little chaotic. I feel like you have in this chapter. An example of ned carrying about things that don't matter and being real rigid about things that really don't matter so he thinks it's really important that when the His child's woth is executed that he be the one to swing the sword and that the remains of the animal be carried to winter fell to be buried. He really cares about that. And i hear that. And i think okay. This is really disappointing. Because ned is a person that has some moral sensibility that i can relate to and here he he does not take a stand on things that do matter like proper discipline of children who have severely misbehaved Or the murder of a child by the inch. Men of one of the royals right these things. He doesn't make a big deal about but as to who's going to swing the sword to kill you know the the wolf that's big deal to him and he's he's willing to take a stand there so you. It sounds like you're reading. Ned as someone who really doesn't care about mike very much. I mean. it doesn't really record as reaction. But i don't believe it returns to the fact that meiko was was murder As any really big deal to ned. I find that a bit alienating like wants to connect with ned Well i think it could happen off page. I mean i think you could re in that way where it's like. There's a little bit of a. There's a little bit that that martin leaves unsaid. But because we empathize with ned were kind of supplying our own emotions about micheals death. Sure sure i mean Clearly were supposed to be to sort of find the hound to be revolting in that moment at the end of the sure But but it doesn't record as reaction also earlier in the chapter. Ned had said i don't know if i'm maybe i'm reading too much into this remark. But he said about the wolf that she deserves better than a butcher. You yeah and i took that to be a sort of an ironic thing that he said that he. He seemed to care more about the wolf than he did about. Well let me ask you a question. And i don't know how you're going to respond to this your hard to read when it comes to these things but You're in american right. You seem like the sort of person who like. Will you know. Stand up for the national anthem and say the pledge of allegiance. If it's been said that kind of thing yeah sure all right so then the question is if there was someone like you know desecrating the flag burning the flag out wiping their but with the flag. Would you feel like you know what. That's that's a really sort of an insult or that that that kind of how. What would be your reaction to that. I don't know. Is this person someone who just murdered a child right before that. Or just in general. Like mistreatment of the flag. What's your set to that. Well you know i. I'm patriotic in. And i i don't like to see someone mistreating the flag for sure. I don't like that That sort of behaviour isn't in the same ballpark. And i get that part it. I guess what i'm saying. And maybe you're not the right example here but there are people who would just deeply in their core be repulsed by anyone who disrespect the american flag. And it's just there's something visceral it's like. How dare you like that. Wounds me at my core and my sense is that ned feels that way about the whole dire wolf thing like this is his flag. This is his house. So that i mean i find it. I would find it a little bit disgusting context. Moreover ned is that he more than anything. He is religiously devoted to the culture and the traditions of the first men. The goes the gods within praise. He teaches his seven year. Old son you have to swing the sword yourself and so doing this to the dire wolf. He he kind of feels like. I'm going to do this as honorably as possible. I don't know may maybe you're not giving enough credit for the kinds of things that he's ultimately concerned about. This really gets to a deeper issue about ned. That i think we're talking about. He does have an attitude of reverence toward. I don't know maybe we should say like the institutions of the seven kingdoms. And i do not think that the institutions of the seven kingdoms are worthy of that kind of reverence. I've really don't. I mean the united states just or really any modern democracy that has divided government in in whatever i mean for all their flaws. There are some great institutions that have been produced in modern democracies. We've just we've just witnessed in america. The power of an independent judiciary that returns over and over again decisions. That went against what the executive one right. Yeah that's very powerful in. Its worthy of some positive attitude. Despite the fact that so many of these courts had judges on them. Appointed by said executive hardy right. Yeah the the party that was that was seeking a decision and yet it worked it worked. And it's like okay so there's something really special about them. There's nothing deserving of that kind of positive attitude in the seven kingdoms the seven kingdoms is is a collection of warlords. they execute people left and right for the smallest infractions. They treat the small people just horribly. Yeah it's just a dark dark place and there's nothing worthy and yet ned treats the seven kingdoms and the institutions of the seven kingdoms as if they're worthy of the kind of respect in awe that we have for a modern democracy and it just you know it's it's disappointing. It's not reasonable. He i think it could just be a matter of that. Ned knows we're which side of the bread is buttered. Yeah like he knows. I'm i'm a lord. If i play this system if i'm within the system my family gets power and the people get fed and so i'm gonna play politics as much as i have to. Yeah yeah i i think. Maybe he's just not smart enough or enough or something to see his way through some of these things and he's just he's given heart to things that don't deserve his heart. I feel like this chapter like we're really in the thick of politics and yet the whole thing is being done through these children proxies. Yeah this is exactly the kind of thing that is going to bring ned to bile. I mean he just he just going to have such a distaste for the whole thing one. He really doesn't like politics. He kind of like tolerates politics is my sense of it and secondly he really believes in the innocence of children. Yeah he wants to raise children as honorable people and they gotta learn the traditions. but you know they. They're not part of wars kind of untouchable when it comes to these sorts of thing and yet here we have southern politics being played out through the proxy of two of his daughters a twelve year. Old boy one of his daughters pets. And it's like there's nothing that would make ned more repulsed than the situation that he's in and i feel like martin's denigrate job of setting that up sure Robert robert's willing to have kids killed you. Know he does whatever kids in. All i saw was dragon spawn. Whatever now that's who robert is And then so. We know that this is the one issue that robert net are. Never gonna see either. I on and this has all been set up and then it all kind of comes to a head in this dairy castle or whatever right It's just wonderful. We're not even king's landing yet and and it's all it's all very real politic in the stakes are so the seemingly really low like. Oh no you know cy cy. Young jeffrey's lose face and and sandra lied. She lied and arias. Going to be upset with. Sandra these are all very low stakes stakes. I don't think you're right. But eventually by the end of chapter the stakes are enormous. Robert's not such horrible guy but and this is part of why say these institutions are not the of respect robert could could just say. I've had it with this girl. Aria killer And should be executed. And that's that and nobody can do anything about it. I mean he wouldn't do. That is not such a bad guy and he loves ned. he wouldn't do by his love for net for sure. There's there's no institutional barrier against that. He wants ned to respect him and love him. He needs a friend. he didn't have any friends. You're right he doesn't. I want to ask one chaotic area. How do you feel about santa in this chapter. When a very i read this. I resolved deep in my soul to hate sonza forever. I back here you are you. You want this storybook ending when you know. This prince is evil. You saw his face you know. He's not the character. You heard him shout obscenities at your sister. You saw him act like a coward and spit bile in your face when you were just trying to help him all she could yell was. You're ruining your ruining. How old do you think she is She's supposed to be three hundred thirteen. I just looked it up. And i see eleven. Oh she's supposed to be eleven eleven okay. she's really so then she the show up for people you know. Here she yeah. That's true here she is. She can choose between aria who she knows is in the right and she can't bring ourselves to come to her younger sisters defense against this horrible evil little liar so that was my feeling about it. Now i've come to love songs. I think she's really interesting. I but we read this chapter. All those old feelings get brought back up. You know i think you your. I don't care if you're loving. You should know well enough to defend your little sister against a bully. I see i actually. I think the first time. I read it. I was really disappointed with her. Like you said this time reading it. I felt like she is a little girl who needs help. Yeah that's true just to see clearly what to do and you know standing in that room with all those powerful people looking at her and this boy that she's had fantasies about standing there and It's just too much for an eleven year old girl. it's too much. It's too much but she makes a calculated decision to withhold the truth in a way that she is not. I think she's trying to make sure that joffrey saves face because she thinks that the only way that my storybook ending is going to come to. Fruition is if i play along and she's trying to play along. She says it all happened so fast. I don't remember what happened. So can i read the part. She says louis. Okay so it says. His eldest daughter stepped forward hesitantly. She was dressed in blue velvets trimmed with white a silver chain around her neck. Her thick auburn hair had been brushed until it shown she blinked at her sister then at the young prince. I don't know. She said tearfully looking as though she wanted to bolt. I don't remember everything happened so fast. I didn't see. And then she's cut off by aryeh. Knocking her over your. She's a little girl. she needs help. She's in a situation headline way above her head right. Yeah yeah and if they would have taken her aside and said Santa this is really important We don't want you to get in trouble and and we don't want to to make joffrey mad at you but we really need to know what happened in. It's really important. Tell us the truth. I think that they would have gotten the truth out of her. Yeah you could be right. You could be right about this Here's the thing. So she's a little girl she she needs. She needs help. She's in a situation where she she's being asked to be smarter and braver than she could possibly be right right. But you know who is smart and brave aria and ariz younger than sanga. And maybe she's brash at this age to know like no you gotta learn to lie and both those girls learned to live pretty well eventually but boy arias just fearless. She is just feel as and when you set those two again. You know juxtapose those two with each other. One just seems brave and admirable and the other one just pales in comparison. Well i hear that. I think they have very different personalities. And i think are much much more disagreeable than santa. She's much more. What disagreeable artists more disagreeable. She's just she's a she's a tough guy you know she. She's not afraid to to defy. She's not afraid to disagree. She's she's not gonna go along with the crowd. She's not to be pressured. And that's a personality you know that's not necessarily right. You know and and i think i see in science especially given what we know about her later. I see a goodness in her. That could be cultivated if anybody cared But unfortunately she's in a world where everybody's horrible well it's also world where parents parents are convinced that pushing their kids into noble marriages is going to be good for the realm an order for there to be peace in the world. I'm going to take this eleven year. Old girl mary her to this. How will this jaffrey twelve or whatever. Twelve year old boy twelve year. Old cat utah. Later and their marriage is going to hold these two great kingdoms together. It's like this is a ridiculous notion. Hey i want to talk about some notable interactions here. I want not that martin is planting a few seeds here. so are you in the hound. Those two are not in the same room together. They have the exchange. No words together and yet the seeds for their relationship are planted in this chapter. Because the hound kills her kills mica and we know that that's going to be a sort of a fundamental motivating thing for her character. And then eventually you know bound is going to make it onto her list. And this is gonna complicate things. Were they relationship down the road so i thought that was interesting. The other thing that is sort of a seed that is planted here. Is this shift in the relationship between sonza and sursee because those two are gonna have kind of a bizarro mother daughter relationship. Yeah and This is sort of for the very first time saunas trying to play politics and surveys so much better at it right So the little seed is planted there and of course the job at joffrey to the mix and that just gonna be helped and then of course. I don't think that ned and robert ever truly recover from this disagreement in this room. The game of thrones is is well underway. And it's clear that ned and robert r kind of pawns in this whole in the whole thing and they're going to be played against each other. They're not going to figure it out on both. These guys are gonna end up dead so interesting little seeds. Here do chad you. Have you ever read any stephen king. Yeah sure so famously. There is a a city. It's like a haunted city. In stephen king's world called dairy well right and we know that martin is friends was king and likes to plant little. Oh maggio's in his books Interesting and i wonder if the fact that there's a child murder that happens relative to house. Dairy is just a little bit of a wink to stephen king. Here not sounds plausible to me. Of course dairy spelled differently but I think it cited. I think this is kind of the thing that martin likes to do. Yeah that's cool. I have a question for each ed. Wood robert have been a better father to joffrey. If joffrey had been fostered at storms end or winter foul or something like that. Yes yeah i think so because He would have. I think in that circumstance. I think i i assume that it's that it pains joffrey. That robert doesn't care about him We don't really have any direct evidence of that. It's just part human psychology that you want your father to care about you. Sure and robert clearly doesn't care about him and when your dad doesn't care about you you're better off your fostered somewhere else. None of that. I feel like someone like status or ned have raised this kid all together differently. Then sursee and in probably a lot of you know bad ways. They probably probably wouldn't have been the best And joffrey could just be a sick puppy right down to his core But i think. I would rather like. I'd rather have the next king raised by standings or ned. Then around kicking around at king's landing and i that's my sense of it at the same time he raised they and it didn't really stick. It certainly didn't now but and we keep in mind. He's not being at winter fell. He is a hostage at winter phil Fair enough which is a little bit like you're kind there is that there's just a little bit of like one little maggot in the rice. And you're not sure where it is. Yeah you know. It's a little different than you know. Ned in robert being raised at the ear or whatever it is a little different i agree Anyway he would have been joffrey would have been still better off if he was fostered alongside another boy. Who was an honorable boy right. Sure yeah. no it's it's possible. It's possible i was even thinking like I mean this is. This is kind of a horrible thing to say. But i think that. Even if joffrey had been fostered under taiwan. I don't i don't i think the thai win would like sort of make it his business to like bend. This turn this this wimp into iron or something like a real politic or whatever and he probably would turn into a moral monster right but he but boy he would be you know he would be savvy and he wouldn't be a snivelling little coward. Who mutilates cats. I mean. I don't know that there was any i don't. I'm not a psychologist. But he's a sadistic person. And i take it that there that there can be a kind of pathology where that's ingrained and it's hard. It's hard to work your way out of it. I'm not sure anything that was done to joffrey would've made him not a sadistic person. It's hard to know. I just think that if ned if ned was if there was a better father he would have he would have sent joffrey. Two winner fell or something like that. Robber was a better father. Oh yeah that's what i meant. Yeah if robert was a better father he said sent his son to winter. Fell to be fostered under ned stark. Something like that. Yeah lucky for ned. That didn't happen is horrible. would you feel that. would you feel to be the foster father of of joffrey. Goodness you know the other thing that struck me is robert. Says it's a it's a great crime to lie to a king and he tells to aria. There's so much irony there. Yeah that's great. No she's the only person in the whole room who's gonna tell them the truth and she looks just like leeann. Everyone says she favors leeann. Yeah and here. Here's little spitting image of leeann. And he's telling he's telling this little girl. It's a great crime delighted with king. It's like you have no idea the lies that are being told all around you and to your face every day because of leeann or poor robert in this situation i do kinda feel a little bit bad for robert the sense. He's so frustrated he's tired. He's frustrated he does not want to play politics. He he just someone. Tell me what happened. I wanna go back to sleep. You know you get the of course. He makes them a horrible king and horrible husband in a horrible friend. Yeah well chad you. You never disappoint. You're the guy and no one is a better guy than chad. Carr well thank you. I'm not sure if that's a cop. Even if i brought on martin you'd be a better knit guy than martin no way. Yeah because he'd be like oh you know he'd be he'd be coy and like not. Wanna try to reveal too much and his attitude toward net. It's funny to me i. He makes me laugh. Oh so you're you're so there's no one better and better all right. oh thank heavy. Have a lovely afternoon ball. Moves back to watching the walking dead. Were in the thick of our retrospective tin coverage. And we've got a brand new way for you to interact with us. It's called stereo and you can get the free app it's stereo dot com slash bald. Move all you gotta do is watch this week's episode season two episode for silence the whisperers than show up this wednesday night on the stereo app and nine pm to discuss all things the walking dead. What did you think of silencing. The whispers are alexandria hilltop being fair with megan. Lydia is there's something going on with michelle and hezekiel. These are the kinds of questions you can ask and topics you can raise in your own voice right from the app and it's as easy as talking to your cell phone. Please join us this wednesday at nine pm eastern standard time for our post walking dead feedback call in show. All you have to do is download the free stereo app and select bald. Move so you can connect with us whenever we're alive. Stay tuned for more details on how to engage with us on stereo at the end of today's podcast support for this. Podcast comes from progressive. What would you do with an extra eight hundred dollars. Buy a plane ticket. Pay down your student loan. Treat yourself to those shoes. You've benign with progressive. You can find out drivers who switch and save save an average of seven hundred ninety six dollars on car insurance get your quote online at progressive dot com and see how much you can be saving national average annual car insurance savings by new customer survey to save with progressive twenty nineteen fifties. And now stephen. I talk about episode seven of season to a man without honor a quick trigger warning. Steve discusses at my urging a time when he was burned and I find museum. I don't know if it says something about my moral character. But if he get grossed out by things like that i would definitely skip the first four minutes or so with steve today or if you need a little q. Steve talks about having drinks with metallica. At that point you can just skip ahead about three minutes. Okay here's steve steve excite Walnuts came back onto daddy. Tell you it's funny. How that works. He shows off early like he was the master of the walnuts. But we find out now that the walnuts really the master of it. I mean that's the one thing we knew about rican right. And it's really one of the least popular metallica song master long. They're easy listening beige. That was really what caused a lot of the rifts between muscle people thought it was drugs but it was because james field was really trying to go through a yacht rock phase. Didn't you meet james head field. No i met. I met lars briefly also met jason news in fact drank. Va with jason news. Did you bring up around that spirit. Now i knew it was a sensitive thing right so i think we should talk about how this episode ends. We'll go right to the end steve. These two boys are burnt to a crisp and the missing arms. Have you ever been burnt before. I up burned before. How was that experience It was hot and It was agonizing. And i mean obviously survived. And but yeah like my nipple grew back which is important your nipple group back. Well like i believe it was shel silverstein that road like lizard tails and fingernails. Nipples always grow back. Yes so you were working at a like an oil stop. Yeah oil one of those quick lubes and sprain the terminal of the battery and apparently sparked kicked up from the ended in create one of those hairspray flame. Throwers only this time with propane and exploded on me and i stopped dropped enrolled my way to at least put the fire out but just lack drafted rolled. I stopped driving enrolled i. It's so funny to think about how you're like of all the things you'd figure you've been taught you'll never have to. This is a great example of strategy versus tactics exempt. Eight tactic yes and and you lost a nipple. yes it was. Burned chest and arm And every day. I wake up in the pile of of more like burnt flesh would fall and then one day i saw it was it was dime shaped it was opaque and fragile. Like a mostly sucked on a butterscotch lifesaver and you kept it and made a necklace out of it. Well i've tried to put it back on. It was a moment of like just disbelief. I'm just looking at it and like the post. I don't know what i don i understand areola but i guess what is what is the the the post of the nipple who still there with areola. I dunno list damon. And so i would like try to like just sorta put it over it in like just and i was like i don't know if i have it on the right side up either so i don't know if that makes a difference is there this just in showed my wife and she was just gross is why i had no idea. It would grow back but it did grow back back so one nipples younger than the other about twenty years younger shows. They don't get along. You know grizzled veteran the other ones like the more rural more wide eyed. So do you feel like you have more respect for fire or do you hate fire. I think i have a pretty good respect for fire. I like frankenstein level of respect for fire now that hound one of my favorite characters. The hound has been burned as well. So there's something that something about men who've been burned that it's like a magnet for me. Steve address so so they on as fully gun to the dark side has if there's i mean if there was any question about whether he was a candidate for the dark side this is certainly right right. So that's the question. I guess. I have to ask the question. Maybe this is obvious. I don't know but when that's not the kids right. Why didn't wanna. I didn't wanna bring it up but now that you brought it up. I didn't want to ruin your experience and now that you brought it up with your reading of the situation might take his no. It's not might take. He needs the walnuts as good of a clue as it was. He needs a very quick way to assert. His authority is brutally and to sort of eliminate any question on whose leader at wonderful. That's my thought. So i think he just grabbed a couple of kids from the from the village cocaine. Cook them up. And it's exactly what happened but i think the way that it's framed. I think the show runners to consider the possibility that we are the kids. Yeah see i just feel like there. There's too much opportunity with what they've done. With the seance character and the end. How good they on. Brand dynamic was in those brief moments to just sort of unceremoniously do that. I mean i guess. I guess it just feels like it especially when it comes to dealing with child heroes. That isn't to say that they can't be disposed of but there seems to be. You can get a lot of mileage from a production standpoint if you draw that out a little bit and so when way to say this is that some of these characters are wearing narrative armor in the sense that they're too valuable to the story to just uncertain ramona's dispose of right and yet and yet game of thrones doesn't care about your feelings steve. I know this. I know this but i also know that they do care about you. Know the again the narrative the rotten tomatoes score helps. And i think i think you. This isn't the sound too. I think if it was just reckon like there's just a here's a corpse up there and like walnuts. I just falling out of his pants or something. Like i think people would be like. Oh okay. I mean that's app. Okay right yeah. So they were the joni of the winter fell cunningham's right so just the idea with this episode. Happy when they find johnny's corpse and they just move off the hug and then the next episode the fawns losses leather jacket. Or whatever. And everybody's like an honglin like does this mean we don't have to have anymore chachi so i think that they're leaving it open. Insure curious i'd be about when it was i received people are watching it. How like how many people like for me. I didn't i'll be honest. I i loved this episode. I felt like the ending was like it's not them so it it fell flat from like the ending. Like i understand what it's supposed to do but So for me. I was kind of like okay. We'll figure out how this you know what. I don't remember if there was a lot of fans that were. I'm sure that there were tons of fans that were fooled. Just par for the course right right sure. Of course i had at this point. I had already surpassed the story with the books on. I remember feeling completely bamboozled by the book. Like martin fooled me. Okay so but. I got to this episode this episode. This episode would have gotten me. Or not. I i can. I can be fooled. I can be full. Are the other cliffhanger about this. Episode is what's going to happen with jamie. Yeah right. that's a that's a fun one. I mean i jamie realize how much miss jamie we haven't seen jamie like three episodes right and even when we have it's been more of like a little bit more of a subdued that this is. Yeah we got to see see some peak jamming little bit dark and this turns turned the darkened over dark. I mean there's like wonderful scene like that was really well done to the way that i knew in his. He called him over Here we go. But i you know the brutality of it was pretty fantastic and just the whole buildup of like this admiration alton alton. Lancaster just worships the guy. Yeah and and jamie feeds it and jamie is like they're almost. I mean like it's hard to tell right as i was that actually a sincere moment like is that how interesting though the character jamie is that it's like oh man yeah i remember it. Wow this has been great. It's been great hanging out with you. But i am going to bludgeon you like two things lutely equally true right like man. This was super fun. Also i need it. Yeah it's all a game like even when he gets captured and brought back he's just having a grand old time writing. That's the thing is. I mean he hit. That's the difference. Right i think. That's what makes him a good good foil. Also just a good night in general is that i mean i think he is at the core understands his value to rob stark and right as long as that value exists he will exist. He's fearless. This guy guest fearless right. And i think that's that's an interesting component right. And that's we've talked about villains and we've talked about the united talked at great length about like the dark knight movie where you know what makes the joker. Such a difficult though is that there was just no code. There was no way to if i do this. Then he'll stop because he holds dear when you don't hold of that anymore. The negotiating power of battle kind of goes out the window. Right if the if the joker is just totally all in on chaos. It means that he doesn't have many weak spots. Yeah i mean the only thing you can do is disappoint them. And that the way to thwart his chaos which is like an episode down abby. I think just one episode Do you feel any more or less sympathy for after this episode. Great question really that back and forth again. I mean you know get a little bit of -tarian a little bit of -tarian goes a long way when he's standing next door and like even he has that moment of compassion but like they are a family that have been bred to not know what to do with it especially towards each other and i think has no problem having competitive. We've seen his compassion for brand. We've seen his compassion for sansa But his like going back to the happy days it was like watching fonzie. Try to say. I'm sorry no he can't get the funds can't make his lips make those sound. It's not that he's incapable of feeling it. it's that he has an inability to verbalize. I feel like that was with terry and was a certain sense of like I feel for you. But i also have too much history with you to feel for you right. There's too much there's way too much history between these two. Yeah and i mean this episodes she was saying something. Like i will wait until you really love someone before i take her from you or something like that right and i get the sense that when tyrian is having that moment of compassion that he still looking at her like. Yeah but i know who you are. I know i know who you are. The odds that you're not who you are right hours slim. But i mean there was that element to have just like being a hostage to the monster. She created right. There's this element that is very clear throughout. I mean joffrey probably was the most menacing in this episode without ever being saying because the specter of joffrey became much more apparent like when you see him throwing a fit guillemot whatever you see the child to a certain degree but this you see you see the impact right like even his impact is larger than the actual joffrey jaffray. Kinda like smoke. Baby is like montes. Add on the loose man. You're not sure what's going to happen with this cat that smoke back in the womb. That is the age old same. Yeah try as you might think these warlocks dude you know you know how i feel about magic but i was all in the world you like. Did i surprise myself. I'm like i shouldn't be. I'm like okay. Maybe i mean maybe it'd be living in a fun house. Is it because of the way they babies it could be. I mean it was. It was something about that. Like i guess. Either i'm softening to magic. Or i i'm finding out what we're my. Hierarchy of magic is mid. Remember the snl sketches where christopher guests as chocolate babies. Oh yeah this little reminiscent of that drag other should be with. Her baby's mother should be so danny. According to the warlocks danny's dragons are in the house of the undying. So of course. Danny is going to have to decide whether she should go to the house of the diet or not and i mean not that. She thinks that she can trust these warlocks. That pretty freaky africa speaking. But it's like a stephen king novel this point. You know that the house is haunted. But there's something that compels you to go in anyway. Yeah what you gotta get a dragon. Baby's mother should be their babies now. So is the plan then to Just basically keep danny captive with their dragons that the intent. I think that that's the idea since you already guessed it. I'll fill you in a little bit on our rules of magic conversation. All right all right so you were waiting for these rules of magic in martin's world v. Greatest rule of magic is that dragons enhance the magic of all the different magicians in the world. So if the dragons are gone the world then these pyro. Managers can't create their wildfire and the warlocks can only can do part of their tracks but the closer these magicians are two dragons the more enhanced their magic will be added so so the warlock has negative like with like the nintendo had that game shark right. Yes that'll that. Dragons are like the game shark for magic. Exactly okay. i'm gonna do it okay. I just want us. There's rules just need rule. The rules are important Be your romance answer. Pyro all right. So yeah sanza. Signs in the hound the more. I see the hound the more like now. How do you feel about that. Yeah he's an interesting one right. I mean like. I feel like he's He's not being completely honest. I mean. I think he's honestly like killed but i don't mean he. He doesn't mean he can kill. He could have killed anybody in that whole circumstance. He did goes out of his way to rescue. Sansa you think that he's got some some compassion for if not compassion. Another motive kind of. I think that if you can get me to actually like a character like who's basically just a cold blooded murderer right if you can get like someone like the hound who you know. Only i met the hound. He basically ran down the butcher's boy and then like made a joke about it like he didn't very fast. If you can get me to like these characters Right well like. I said it's because you're you're watching these shows and they're just like because they're so little compassion. Everything is scheme and you can't trust anybody you're constantly on you know on your heels and so the idea that maybe just maybe there's a light here then maybe you can hang onto even for an episode and becomes a powerful thing to hang onto. Hey i wanted to mention something that may be of interest. You come all right. So part of the area and taiwan exchange is the history of this burnout castle. Talks about a little bit about how. This castle was sort of outmoded by the existence of dragons. And so here in the black built this castle and then dragons came. Along castle was kind of useless. Well that whole episode. There's some speculation that that whole episode is going to be featured in the spin off series. House of the dragon is era. Yeah so yes. Hbo approved ten episodes For the first season of house of the dragon which is supposed to basically focus on danny's ancestors and the rise of the target areas. Okay so interesting again that we already know that they have on. The main ingredients will two main ingredients dragons and incest. It's baked right into the Aaron you can't have a game of thrones show without those two things now so keep that going and the more walnuts the better support for this podcast comes from. Cdw hp cdw. We'd get of working bring new threats. That's why we started in office commun- in the wilderness. Not a security concern around unless you count the walls you know with. Cdw we can design a security solution using hp devices with real time threat intelligence to help protect your data anywhere. You work anywhere dress. Going technology moves you forward trust. Hp it orchestration by cdw people who get it learn more at cdw dot com slash hp security for this week's bird's eye view. I'd like to talk a little bit about fatherly. Ethics in the ancient world. And i'll just be reading. Directly from god's of thrones the book that erin and i wrote together. We've just talked a little bit about the sociological construct of religion as imagine by emil. Dirk heim saw. Just jump right in mid chapter here this page seventy-one so we suggest a variation to dirk himes homo duplex. We call it homo dad. Plex because the communal function of religion and its moral character are entangled patriarchy to be religious quote unquote in the ancient world was to honor the fathers sons lords kings and gods conversely a father figures honored depended on his ability to care for the tribe. He was the face of the tribe to outsiders may decisions related to farming defense arranged marriages etc. If he whether father lord or king failed to care for his tribe he would answer to the gods so to martin's world's devotion to one's liege lord is nothing less than sacred or put more simply homo dad. Plex robert breath. Ian when set against this backdrop is altogether unethical roberts. Lack of care for those in his service makes him fiscally and morally bankrupt. He refuses to manage his wealth with integrity. Thus weakening the power of the throne. He's a deadbeat dad to his eldest son thus weakening the kingdom. It's no coincidence. That his favourite phrases seven. Hells no doubt he plans to visit all of them. Within martin's world a far more highest phrase would be. I love it when you call me big poppa because to wear the b. I g crowns sweetie. You've got to feed the needy by the standard. Someone like taiwan. Lancaster is a far more father. Figure his emotional availability notwithstanding he provides for those in his care. He prepares his eldest son to lead. He defends his tribe any reinforces. The social system tie. Win would be a colossal failure as a father in modern society but he something close to the ideal father figure against martin's futile backdrop. This fact audit cautioned against any nostalgia for simpler times returning to sociology. We should recognize that. We're stroh see. Society is a form of collectivism. In contrast to modern individualism collectivist cultures tend to have tribal ethics. The weather difference between these two questions question number one the ethical individualist ass right thing to do question number two the ethical collectivist asked. What is the right thing to do for my tribe. The first question assumes some kind of universal standard for right and wrong in this world view a person must live up to the standard but the second question assumes that the tribes overall wellbeing determines a person's actions we must remember that martin's is fundamentally tribal assets the strength of the father and the eldest son is crucial for the tribe. This is why jamie. Lancaster is infinitely more important to taiwan than his other children is. Why randall charlie banishes his eldest son a self confessed coward to a life of monastic servitude. These examples show the dark side of homo dad plex if your personal wellbeing as contrary to the wellbeing of the tribe you'll get no chocolate. You get nothing you'll lose. Good day ser. So are you can't be a night and tyrian can't be elise. Lord denarius is a child bride and lawrence is expected to sign children. Humbled data can be especially hazardous to personal identity at the same time it functions as a bulwark against total chaos tribes fine as tribes for a reason tribes can also be beautiful providing meaningful existence and teaching compassion for all of the darkness explored by martin. We meet characters and coated with compassion after all once a person is taught compassion by the tribe. That person may choose to show compassion outside of the tribe in martin's worlds. We get to see some characters. Discover moral authority to dad plex. And that's all for this do as mentioned previously. We've got a new after. Show the watching dead where you can join our conversation real time. Every wednesday at nine pm eastern will be hosting a conversation at stereo dot com slash bald. Move and you can join in. It's easy just download the absolutely free app at stereo dot com slash bald move. And you're ready to go stereos the app for live social conversations and we want to talk directly with you our listeners. You can join our show. Ask questions about the walking dead. Living with the dead and general share your thoughts and opinions. We want to hear everything download now and join us. Live this week at stare dot com slash bald. Move be sure to follow us so you know the moment our show starts.

joffrey ned robert Ned Joffrey steve comcast mica ren li iran walter white ren lee Michael corleone chad carmichael Smain rado bef michael tyrian mike mario peruzzi
Caught Offside: Bale Out

ESPN FC

1:18:28 hr | 2 years ago

Caught Offside: Bale Out

"Caught offside with ED re gumming and J. J. D. Benny caught offside from the upper west side of Manhattan and Gulling and J. J. Davani what's up <music> Andrew. How're you doing very well? I have a question. Are you a fan of the net flicks vehicle last chance you I have not seen it. Oh I'm aware of it but I haven't seen you. You need to dig in okay this is this is some of the best TV I have ever watched and I'm wondering why it's never been done in soccer like it's been done short-form like an hour documentary but this is eight parts season four of last chance you is it parts an hour long each and it's just so good. It is unbelievable anchor. I'm in China. I'm not really selling it and I'm not talking a first team you ventas which is just like propaganda Gulf like terrible. I'm not even talking Amazon prime's aren't we grit Manchester City or whatever it was called <hes> which was actually had some interesting insights but still was largely propaganda. This ace is so good. This is raw. It's gritty I think we I think it should be done in in podcast form like this. This could be my. I have to put on a brilliant show today or on out. This is my last chance wow last chance pod. Yeah you begun you begun in the first speaking of shows that I think the other one of us might enjoy <hes> have you heard of the show years and years yes. Peter Rosenberg won't South talking about so he finally yeah he I finally started watt and and I really do like it. It's where I would say. It's where this is us and all and Black Mirror meat while I want this is us and lack moorer to meet at a cliff and for Black Mirror to push. This is all off the cliff I if if I say this is us because it follows kind of a semi quirky family through feelings and emotions and fires rule agencies roof day care where history is headed kind of okay it's interesting and you are somebody who likes history. I and I think you might be intrigued by like the way the show has done John. What's intriguing what this podcast lot to get to <hes>? We're GONNA talk with Dermott Corrigan in just a couple of minutes. He is our guy who is based in Spain who covers SALITA. Who's been on this podcast? Many many times <hes> always has good insight and we need to know what's happening with Gareth Bale because the situation has been ongoing and it's only seemingly getting weirder and weirder <hes> so he obviously covers the stuff professionally so we're going to get his take on all of it. Also we're GONNA get into this was a really really interesting weekend in the League <hes> a lot to talk about their what a game between the galaxy and L. A._F._C. to start things off on Friday night and things only got better seemingly after that <hes> <hes> big mail bag big what to watch for you. Were talking up your red card before the show as if the Mikes were already rolling so I'm excited about what that will be. It came to me in the early hours of this morning. It's very organic red card. It's my most organic red card hard since I freaked out at the guy over Panama taking the U._S. as place in the World Cup. Hopefully it's better than your Maldini one. You hated that it was so poor and so lazy also actually we have a five stars five years on this podcast to which I think people will enjoy Oh. It's a classic yeah. It might be the best thing we've ever done. High production value a lot of thought and effort. I still think the rap battle is the best thing we've ever done. I think I prefer this all from your feted mind so yes stay tuned for that at the end of the Pod as well but let's start now J._J.. With what I guess feels like the top story of the day and that's probably been the case for the past couple of days and that is the unfolding drama between Gareth Bale and Zindedine Sadan an and Real Madrid as a whole <hes> at this moment his status for where he'll be playing the season seems completely and utterly up in the air and it's just such a to me at least you can tell me if I'm wrong and feeling this way <hes> to me. It's still such a huge domino that we're waiting to fall and I feel like there's some people who are maybe moving off of that opinion of bail because his name is being dragged through the mud. He's coming off of the season where he dealt with injuries. He's where his his spot on. The team around. Madrid was never really guaranteed but I'm sorry I can't help but look at this guy's pedigree his age he still thirty so he still has. I'd say what three years three solid years left of his prime <hes>. I don't know I I view him. As a guy who could go to almost any of the top clubs in the world and make them an immediate contender to you for for certainly for whatever they're going to do domestically in their league and maybe for a Champions League as well. I think a lack of consistent starting time at Real Madrid over last couple of seasons on the injuries have denuded that view. I honestly don't know is he not playing for them consistently because of his injuries or because he's just not as good players what I believe he is in my head. Some of it might be systems as well. Some of it might be trying to fit. I mean certainly a lot of it was the glare from Renaldo trying to get Renaldo him bail in sync. I I don't know Andrew. He's being a bit of an afterthought talk. Let's be honest even in the shop even the champions think of contextualized this for a second even in the champion's league final where he scores one of the Great Champions League final goals of all time like he's not a starter came on as a sub and scored twice right yeah. That's just my point on you could be right he could be still at the peak of his powers but I don't know that because we're not seeing him and he's being also the noise surrounding Real Madrid bowed him is is casting him as this remember him kind of rolled and there are also I mean it'd be interesting to ask derm at this question. Who else is interested? Like who are we hearing up to this point. We're only hearing China which just feels row unrealistic to me. I can't see that as a legitimate ops rob stolen tweeted yesterday in as he is wont to do with his controversial and he he just tweeted that M._l._S. top should be getting their pitches ready for bail. I that would feel wrong wrong to how much of a pay cut is Gareth Bale really going to be willing to take for that to even be on the table because see what you want to have. He'd have to end up on Michael Bradley morning to six million a year but it's a far cry from seventeen. It's it's a lot he's not going to want to eat that. That's the only reason why M._l._S. like. I respect Rob Stone. He's great but that's just that's crazy. Talk to me like that. Is that is really crazy. Talk because say what you want about playing in China. The you know the one thing they'll do who is pay these guys legitimate money to get them to go there. M._l._S. I feel like oftentimes doesn't doesn't feel like they need to adhere to that because what M._l._S. cells to stars in Europe is come live the American lifestyle so they feel like they don't need to overcompensate necessarily. Maybe that's arrogant but I think it has worked on lowering certain players over there to come live in America. <hes> China doesn't do that. They they lure you with money so M._l._S. is not going to go to that. What kind of length to get him? Can I go back to your previous point about is he still appeared Cookham into a team and just do the things that carpet as don and maybe be a huge threat in the team and transformed the site. We've seen cameos that would suggest he can still do that. You know we shouldn't I shouldn't just blindly say his powers are denuded like I said he is not what he was. I remember the the nation's League game and you can say okay. It's the Republic of Ireland but I remember him just burning players and combing in on his left foot and whacking packing it into the top corner the things that we associate with our bit. I just want to test the theory at a top team. China probably is being talked about for the simple reason is that China can pay. That's I really think that can be can be the only read I doubt <unk> out. I would very much doubt Gareth. Bale wants to see I the last really good years of his career in China notice respect to China. It's just interesting because his entire time at Real Madrid is is like this big mind f- to me that like he's almost been treated as some sort of like glorified role player while he's been there because it's always been regardless of how much money Florentino Perez signed him for this has always been Aldo's team and rightfully so Rinaldo so is way better player but like like you just said he's had the you just use the word cameo like that's how we view him at Real Madrid like he's just some cameo figure but I I went on the B._B._c. because I was kind of testing that idea my mind is that really all he is or is he more meaningful than that. Honestly even I who loved bail was surprised by what the BBC had. They had a hold. Our whole article basically saying like this guy is better than you remember him being at Real Madrid. Here's some of what they they say he's played two hundred and thirty one games for them which felt like a big number and in those two hundred thirty one games he scored one hundred and two goals and added sixty five assists to that his minutes per goal rate was better than Rowell's at Real Madrid Raoul <hes> Sadan and bail both played roughly the same number of games for the club and yet bale scored more than double the number of goals that Zindedine scored right and there assist tally was virtually identity <hes> and then like we've talked about by the way they've won fourteen trophies since bail has arrived at Real Madrid he scored in two Champions League finals including <hes> an extra time winner against Athletico Madrid and like you said one of the Great Champions League final goals of all time he also has an incredible winner in a Copa Del Rey L. classical against Barcelona was an incredible like he leaves if he does leave he leaves behind a legacy that I think is way brighter than whatever people are going to give him credit for. I don't know maybe I view him in some biased light because I can't I just can't erase from my mind. The things that I saw him do a tottenham but I feel like the numbers back up the fact that he's been a really good player for Madrid and I really good is putting a little bit lightly. I don't maybe maybe his price tag was just always too high and he was never going to fully be able to live up to that. I know that like there's going to be Real Madrid fans who tweet me and say that you're just not watching enough. You don't see the times when he fails. I'm not saying he's been a perfect player for them. But I guess I'm just surprised fries with this like I mentioned at the top of the show this like dragging through the mud process that has gone on <hes> between really bales agent and the club the only thing I would say about the bill versus Renaldo comparisons in terms of them as players which are really helpful in this argument right now but they're fun to look at Zam was twenty eight or twenty nine when he signed for Real Madrid whereas bail gave Real Madrid that picquier the center years of his career. I think his work were point and that is fair to <hes> last bit on this. I did want to mention something about China before we get to Dermott <hes> and Graham Hunter like this back and forth on whether or not he should go to China you and I are both kind of united and saying he should not know Graham Hunter as well <hes> I saw he was quoted in skysports for saying he should be playing in an elite football club and should be doing so in order to sticks and beans Don's words back down his throat. He has been an extraordinary British export. That's from Graham Hunter who is a very very balanced man and uh I that would be his genuine belief. This would not be Brit patriotism either it would be his genuine feeling on the case it is true where if bail goes to China it is kind of like Sanza. Dan Wins like bail will recede into the dark recesses of our mind. He'll be forgotten yeah. I mean we'd be talking about him. Whatever happened to Solomon Ron Don O. and Gareth Bale Right? I'll tell you what let's let's continue this now with our man in Spain Dermot Mkx Oregon of course covers Spain and League Free S._p._N._F._Z. and he joins us now Dermot. What's up man how you been? Hey pretty good. What are you good ball in a way here roasted in the Hispanic Stone Buddha where we're going to talk about keeping interested? Yes yes yeah seriously I guess let's start with what Gaozhai talking about an entire kind of bizarre Gareth Bale situation that we feel like we need some like greater perspective on first off. I guess with regards to sedan. Why is risky so hell bent at least how it seems to us? Why is he so hell bent on seeing they'll go yeah? It is an excuse me it isn't it's been trying to kind of work through it myself and it looks like Jon has has kinda take. I can personally against bills that he's decided that he just just needs to get to get out of there and I don't think they they've had a big falling out or anything. It's not that they you know they're not really talking to each other but over the way things have developed over the last couple of years where I wasn't sure daily into the team and he he was even in my playing go inside as an extra midfield or didn't didn't take to that so well and and then there was you know probably would have happened last summer. If if Saddam had resigned at the end of last summer something similar might have happened you know combined and said he was thinking of leaving and now just the relationship between the two of them has just broken down so they're kind of <hes> their their big egos too big personalities and to kind of quite enough guys as well not not not guys who from the rooftops a lot but they don't like each other and it's pretty clear yeah Dermott. It's all I've been curious about this sense. He moved there. You know we hear stories over here about you know the golf and how this is such a front to the Real Madrid fans cowart bail plays golf so much and maybe that he hasn't learned allying with so much that he's a bit removed from the players. is any of that factoring into decision I. I don't think that's an cares too much. What what they'll does on it? It's time wants to play golf. I I don't think that would would care about that or or really whether he speaks you're not it's not going to be huge. Thing is it on I think that language issue maybe thing between them just in that you know neither speaks the language and you know Saddam. Spanish is pretty. Are you good but even last night he was kind of apologizing if he'd been misunderstood for not being in Spanish and Bill Spanish would be. I think it's better than maybe people make especially depending SUPERMAC. I put still so they they've never really been able to to connect to well and there's maybe against runs against bill that he doesn't have anybody fighting his case. Really I burn obey because you know other players are favorite. I guess maybe last season and he he would have a big constituency of of pundits. It's a former players of and media people former managers everybody around it around in Madrid who would stick from whereas because of the type of guy he is. He's a quiet guy he. He's not that open person he's not really into networking or are making context sex that type of thing around Madrid he hasn't bothered with without any of that which is fair enough. It's just the type of of character that he is and if he was playing regularly and scoring two goals I it wouldn't matter but because of having gone because of the injuries because they said Saddam. Maybe tactically sided that you didn't need them in the team. Nobody is fighting back against that and Bailey's pretty isolated at the moment. which is you know Johnson Barna who has been talking to E._S._p._N.? N._F._C. putting fail side of the argument maybe across whereas they'll say stays quiet behind a allies agent to do the talking for him but there's nobody insane who's WHO's really pushing bads case and that has kind of get what about among his teammates like you mentioned the pundits maybe fans but do any of his teammates have his back. I Yeah I think he gets on okay. You know there's the stories about 'em you know search around US organizing the tonight ice and being one of the few pairs reading going on to that excuse me but I don't think they hold it against him I e he is you know as as I said he's a quiet guy. He's he's not. He's not licensor to the party but he he's sorry he is respected. You know he gets home. We look marriage is very good. There was talk that he'd been helping eating house are set Linda because you know obviously they. They spoke English together that he'd been there. I know that that he meant Tony Cruz. Speak English together. Get on pretty well you know he he's not moderate as fully settled into the to the dressing room toxin Spanish vanished so everybody deal is not reached that level but I don't think he's just likes are open to now anyway. I've not seen signs of being actually disliked by saying so. Let's imagine this scenario Dermott that nothing happens. He's he's not moved on and he remains at the club he wants to see out. I suppose get paid C._O.. Dot Contracts Dan I mean does the Dan frees him out. Does he end up paying and in in our training with the team does he ended up on the beach. How do you see this play now it should he should he ended up staying yeah? It's it's you know. I don't think anybody wants wants that O- off of people involved who I'd include co-presidents as a really big player in this. Nobody wants to see that in a way it does come down as much as it's about a world between the Dan and garbade over what happened. There's also the whales going on as I see it. Between the Donna. I'm Dr Perez because Frontino has always supported built he's been seeing or what would he always but as often supported value's seen as a big guarantee you know signing as somebody who aren't you know put a lot of faith and I support a lot within the power structure at the Varna barrel deny taking taking that on thinks it feels feels empowered power by the way in which he came back and during his first ballots coach John was very we used to say a lot you know I'm just a CO chair. You know you'd have to take with the president would be his answer to a lot of transfer type questions whereas now he's been much much more open. You know I want to get has I want to get if I can and so that that's that's a big factor in what's going on at the moment whether they will be happy to just sit in the stands and take his you know seventeen million euros aftertax exit a year. I don't know I don't think so that's not the impression I would have from down under a very serious professional competitive type guy so maybe maybe they're all trying to hardball each other. Maybe they'll be esa you should do the other thing is that coaches don't often that long at Madrid and Saddam did very well in his first style but you know if they don't win anything next season. He'll come under pressure again so maybe try to play a long term game and difficult when at the moment that could happen Eh Dermott the bail side of this perspective that I'm really interested in because it clearly seems manager doesn't want him to questions about whether or not you know the Foreign Perez we just talked about his teammates and whether or not he's fully integrated there. It just doesn't feel like it's it's a place where he would want to be yet. He seems so steadfast in wanting to continue to play for Real Madrid is that for financial reasons or is there more than that I think part of it is that there's there's not so many options Fordham maybe might just united had pushed really hard and said you know will match wages that that you're getting out Madrid or buyer Munich or some other of Europeans Europe's biggest teams have made a really interesting offer. Maybe you you would situation would be different at the moment but our information at e._S._p._N.. N._F._C. that known if they are being clubs have even made a serious inquiry about bail that they're put off by by his wages by his injury record as well by the fact activity turned thirty earlier this year the you know the idea of going to China has been floated as a country would be able to pay maybe match the way that he has looks to me as if he's not interested in that one if you had to choose between Wean hypothetically speaking between a return to one of the primarily biggest copes that Madrid when you know it'd be a serious and vision for him to make what if it's choosing between fighting to try and get back into the situation at Madrid and going to China then at the moment you know you can be proven wrong but at the moment it looks like you will say and try and find his way back in Madrid last one on bail for you dermot I it's just interesting to me because Madrid of experienced so much success since bail arrived. I don't know if some of that is down to coincidence but a lot of that has certainly certainly been his doing. He scored a lot of big goals at that clubs so I just wonder sometimes. Why does it feel like he's just never been truly accepted as like a true Real Madrid player John that you know you're looking in his first year air? He had that the amazing goal in the final against and Barcelona I so to basically win that goes and Champions League final one of the best goals ever in it in a Champions League scoring Costco's. It's got a couple of crackers at award necesssary. Remember from twenty five yards to to get a draw in the league as well you know being in another shadow is difficult for anybody and both both physically on the page we saw sometimes Renata wasn't happy when Bailey didn't costumes costumes going back two years ago also off the page just am having to deal with that and you know where the P._R.. Resources go or where who gets you know which opportunities to to shine group against or not you know anybody's going to lose that I'd also just in this area by those personality of not really being that open a guy or not a guy who goes out of his way to to network into to make that type of of links and and that that nobody at the Kobe fighting hit fighting his corner. It's so firm and I think he understands that you kind of frustrated. You know there's there's been a lot of social media links going around where comparing bales goals and assists the draw one by playing for Madrid to choose it on bail court more goes one more trophies and but you haven't got the recognition that that he deserves from that I I think it's fair to say and you know that you have to it sounded like it's not GonNa Change. He's not gonNA be become a darling of unveil at all at this stage Dermot final one for me and it's not on bail. You'll be glad to hear a sole novel Fakhir Joins Rail Bettas for what seemed like a cut price steal so just because Andrew here is a spurs supporter that means right that Giovanni Lasalle so is on his way to north London correct it looks like it and yet the couple of things as far as as far as you would have to fall into place but <hes> could happen very soon. I'm also the next one player and a bit of that is myself so watch out of their games last year and technically excellent personality took took a leadership role in the team. Even though he's young he's He's twenty two. I think maybe twenty three and and was on loan scored. Some big goes a big role in the pettus waiting at the end the burn about last year and this guy who think think wh fit pretty well into the the Tottenham System as well he he works hard even though he's just go guy and he's not the most physically imposing he works hard cafaro tactical instructions as well even played as a nine for a while last year because that has had no other option didn't complain bye bye got Noko Diane and I'm took kicked that Conway which saying as a centre forward a lot of you know. He's not a big guy so if I was his first on I'd be super happy about that. I you know somebody leaning towards Madison excited about SPEC air coming in as well because he looks at super potentially super signing assuming he's got over his injury he could be another kind of another jam forgot. It's to Polish I maybe selling onto a bigger richer beginning for on time well. That all sounds very good. They're Nice. Thank doc you. Everybody thanks Dermott. This was great. Man always enjoyed catching up with you. I'm sure we'll be in touch as the summer rolls on thanks so much take care our thanks to Dermott got to say I kinda liked hearing some of what he was saying. There are about La- Celso also yeah <hes> I remember so mail by glass season where we were talking about what Barcelona do and how you can stop them and I looked at the bettys Barcelona game where bet is one three two. I think it was on Lonzo was just list of standing in that game. I will be excited if I was yeah. I loved you know what I loved. Most shows were pro football men when he said he gets stuck in. He's happy to play in any rule under something so endearing about players like that you're on. I'm not comparing comparing the sessile skill set and James Miller's but guys who will plug in in different positions than do rules they are. They're there will always be a place for you. Yes they are instantly likable. Yeah <hes> it is interesting the summer Taunton we're having right now because <hes> you know if they do walk away with ballet and the Celso than it means Pocchettino is going to end this summer getting his top two targets that he wanted when the summer began and almost just as importantly heaping Christian Ericsson Ericsson there has been he wanted to go to Real Madrid they weren't interested and there hasn't been any interest from anyone else and then by the same token. I read stories today that toby all Durrell now sounds like whether he's happy about it or not I don't know but he sounds resigned to the fact that he'll be a member of Tottenham again for the season for the upcoming season so they're not. They're not losing anyone. I know they lost trippy but they can. I think they can live with that. I'm appreciative of what he did for the club while he was there but they can. They can afford to have lost him died don't. I think Danny rose is going to go anywhere and <hes> so I'm well. He may end of consumer but right now he isn't going and right. fullback ultimately will be their question mark but I don't know I feel like they're having a summer again. This all needs to happen and there is still time left in the window for guys to to leave <hes> but it all looks pretty good right now. Hot is the Hotel California of the Premier League. You can check in anytime Andrew but you may never leave and by the way we don't talk much about the International Champions Cup but what about what about this from the other day next the hold up Playa CONC- and being a community hey these towns Harry Kane this to this total. It's extraordinarily there are not many moments that will actually help me like stand up l.. During a what is essentially they can call it whatever they want. It's a preseason friendly but that actually did it for that was awesome from right the center circle and what was funny about it was it was so unexpected that it caught the commentators in amid natter. There was just having a conversation you know what you WANNA do. is you want to boil the spuds raw and then you WANNA put them. Oh yeah it was it was a pretty cool moment. <hes> let's move on now or thanks again Dermott for <hes> for joining us. We'll keep an eye on this bail thing because like I said I think it's still a big. I was welcome. When I said about La- says although as well I I was saying Oh we won't plus one equals to defect years in so he's there apparently the by the actually real quick you mentioned Faquir what what happened to his price tag plummet why well from what we heard last season and again? I don't actually being valued at fifty million summer yeah Liverpool. He's been the the the love interest of Liverpool fans for so long announce Faquir night <hes> but from what we heard there was a problem with the knee surgery that he had on that Liverpool were Ooh and they ask for a reduced price price for him and Leon were now now when when is it primarily club getting a reduced price right reply for so but obviously Liana resigned themselves to the fact unless this is bonus and incentivized and it may well be this contract or this deal <hes> decided. They've decided they have to get rid no while they can. I guess I was I mean I saw that number of yeah. <hes> yeah <hes> so there you go. Let's <hes> let's bring it back now across the Atlantic Ocean back to M._l._S. Jayjay it's was this was a pretty riveting weekend end. It started off so brightly with the A._F._C.. Yeah that was awesome. What a great game? <hes> we can get into the game anyway you want but I figured the Best Avenue in. Is this whole Fella Verse Lautan. I I wonder if lots on ever pictured a moment like when he was scoring goals a P._s.. G or wherever is like there's going to be a day when everyone's wondering if I'm better than Carlos there's an ex arsenal. There's an arsenal reject. You'RE GONNA have to compare yourself yeah <hes> just <hes> I know there's obviously so much more to it than this but just so people have like the base knowledge here. Valla has twenty one goals and twelve assists in twenty games this season Zlatan has sixteen goals and three assists in sixteen games this season look if if if all things things are equal and I'm building a team and you're asking me am I taking twenty nine year old assist machine Carlos via over one dimensional in terms of the way you have to play to him Zoltan then. I'm going to go with their butts. Latin is a force of Nature Church. He is a brilliant player that let's be honest. I like Jonathan to Santos and that's it like that L._A.. Galaxy team is buying average like it's less than buying average in my view and ten or twelve point they are super one dimensional but when you're dimension is Latin Ibrahimovic it just opens up everything else. Now I will give credit to the League Alexey Midfield unsorted Jodi Bob Bradley depressed. They never gave the A._F._C. Midfield a chance to settle and get the ball to via via had come deep together and when he turned he had so much of the pitch in front of him he couldn't be impactful. You still got two goals mind you it's worth noting <hes> but at the same time you know side-on just brings this this unbelievable dimension. He bullies defenders like N._F._C.. Were ruining scared it was I'm not gonNA use the word cowardly that's not right but they were so scared of them. <hes> so scared to the point where all basics of defending were forgotten that first goal is an amazing goal. It is a brilliant goal but it's also huge defensive breakdown. You have the full back and the other centreback running does Latin to double team and because they're are afraid and he flicks it over their head and suddenly there's this wide gap walker. Zimmerman is in nowhere land hasn't read it expects them to deal with that and the next thing is in the back of the net. You should watch Walker Zimmerman's reactions to the goal going in yeah part of me though commiserate with him in his life expectancy that they'll handle this right yeah. They did not know they really didn't I- diving in Latin. If you're a thirty year olds Latin were and he was about thirty yards from goal in that point you're thirty eight year olds at thirty eight yard thirty yards from goal. Don't you don't need to die vein. Just keep your shape. Let them have it. He's got to go along. He's not going to beat you with pace. WHO's one time in the second half where he tried to jink past someone I it's like thank figure this out? If you dive in he's going to Mug you. He's a street footballer. He's too skillful he he skillful and he still so strong which unfortunately was ton of on display for the wrong reasons when he like dented elmo nears skull right right but even look at the flick on where he's for his <hes> his target will look at that it's a long ball now he gets back on it or whatever but the defenders nowhere to be seen he's monster out of it and the ball bricks whom again and suddenly there's no-one unknown close to him like there was this thing where someone on instagram listener of ours contact me and said. Why aren't they man-marking him? I'm like they're afraid too. They're afraid to get too close. They get too close. He skips he flicks it over their head. They stays the only he's got too much space. They did not know how to handle them. Yeah <hes> here Steve Nicol by the way on this Latin valid debate you go run football football players and football locker rooms and we were talking about who's the best player it comes down to when it matters so it's okay for school five or six goals against Cincinatti a and look good the one that miles that's when you want the guy who's the best say he and went lots of last night guess what happened not only did dischord hot drink but he's called incredible goal. That's that's all fair but I do think that some of that is not. I don't know it's not Vela's more than just a guy who scores a lot of gold team Venezia Brennan Footballer and look like I said I would still take him a twenty nine overs Latin this age but that doesn't change the Latin skill set or what he's able to do an in game what I would be saying. Is that the rest of his team that him don't that midfield WBT was overran. mcvay isn't going to do it all in his own. It's just not going to happen so yeah. I saw this <hes> from. I think it was bobby warshaw Emma soccer dot com who was talking about L.. A._F._C. and what what a loss like this means and he said this he said Frail A._F._C. F._C.. Task as clear as shown in the US Open Cup loss to Portland and Friday's loss of the galaxy teams are going to try to make it ugly against them. Do they try to find the football. Do they take the route of twenty eighteen Atlanta and except they need to suck it up and play ugly as well <hes> I do think I don't want to over exaggerate what this game what this loss was for L._A.. Psychological blow but I do kinda wonder if we're now reaching the stage of the season where okay they proven that they can beat up on a lot of M._l._S. but it's not a lot of M._l._S.. They have to worry about ultimately. This is now a title or bust season for L. A._F._C.. Anything short of that will be a disappointment with how good they've been so they don't have to worry about a lot of those teams anymore. They have to worry about the best of the best in this league <hes> and those teams like the galaxy see who clogged up the middle and wouldn't give space to run through the middle. They're pushing things out wide and L.. A._F._C. didn't really want to play that way. No <hes> you know teams are going to do that and like bobby warshaw says they're gonNA. They're gonNA muck it up against L._A.. Try to make it difficult for them to to play the kind of like free-flowing football that they WANNA play. I know it was worrying when Bob Bradley just said we are intensity. Wasn't there Bob it's Darabi. How's that possible? How come on sometimes I think coach is to say things? They're just like they. They're programmed to certain lines. I don't think they even understand like the repercussions of Bradley's a fairly you know he places unless it's a message to his team saying he wears his harness leave so I mean yeah. I don't know <hes> so I just wonder now l.. A._F._C. are at some kind of crossroads strodes. Where like are they going to have to change the way they play? I don't think so. I don't think that would be that would be a panic. That would be a real panic. I I would say a P feels as if they're when he goes up against these teams. It's going to be a battle then. He's got a caught his his plot to suit his measure in those games but they're going to cut through more teams in this league. It's just like you said you've got to be better prepared for the big Thais the one thing I did like about this game <hes> not necessarily. I don't WanNa see guys getting hurt. I don't mean it like that but in a rivalry regain like this had all the physicality of two teams that genuinely don't like each other this is now the best rivalry in M._l._S. view. I I notice people Portland Seattle Line. No they'll talk about that the New York rivalry. I be not the Derby there last weekend is nothing it's not in the same ballpark as what's going on in Los Angeles right now and that's good to see the actual <hes> what else stood out to you from this past weekend I mean Houston going into Toronto and Lawrence. Simone's performance at centre-back was I mean every single goal Andrew the first goal. was you know on and again. Don't want to be derogatory. He's a good pro. Will you know on on playstation when when you're trying to get the circle on or player that make that player make certain player be active and instead of doing that he becomes active quickey and then shoots out a position like he he makes a role in on fee for that is our pro evil like I didn't want you to go. There and there's a massive gap opens up the first our school for Tommy McNamara. Was that the last school Minolta's come on. I'm not me a favor. Minolta's is a good player. This was keystone cops. This was guys is running into each other. Somebody in the middle of that move stood on Lawrence month toll and he starts hobbling it was it was shameful from Toronto. You need to do me one favor though you by the way you have a lot of proper football men in you you do do me this one favor. You're right the defending it was M._l._S. defending at its absolute. Why was that it was however you can't leave talking about that? Goal without giving that guy son credit for score it was great persistence like you would think but it was persistence against Larry Moines curly come on though even by accident there were so many Toronto F._C.. Defenders around Minolta's there that you would have thought one of them by accident would have put him off the ball for him to have at least enough so they were all involved in their own calamities to me. I I've ever seen and I've caught bad teams. Water glad rally loves the goal and I thought my notice was brilliant all right <hes>. Let's see I had a couple of things I wanted to mention. Just one thing real quickly here. I feel like Philadelphia Union fans for however good. The union have been so far this season by the way they've been really good we in an email from Shafei Oh really why are we talking about the union more. I hadn't seen that email and here I am leading the section with the Union so take that my why. Why wouldn't you just text me what was really nice? My closest friend is a nice email. I don't WanNa hear it. I don't care for it and I'm not I like. He should've left it out. When you talk about them so <hes> yeah I wanted to talk about them? Because for however good the union have been this season and they're leading the eastern conference and it's it's been a really fun kind of unexpectedly fun season for them. There had still been questions over the <unk> signing of Marco Fabian and you know is he going to be the player that they thought he would be. There's been flashes of it is Fabienne. That's right. Actually I should know from the commercial with the with the poor man Seth Rogan but like there has not been a flash quite that we've seen from him like the one we saw Saturday night. This goal was so great right off the training. So I mean they say you talk about right off the training ground that was brilliant and it was beautiful from Fabiana and his entire first-half. I thought he was probably probably the best player out there. I don't know the union like I keep waiting for that moment when it when it starts to unravel and I feel like that's just I just don't know that that's going to happen. I I really feel like this is a a pretty complete team. Now I know so what was this was. This was their first shutout. I think since May eighteenth so maybe there are still problems in the back. I don't know maybe some of that was Andre Blake being away on international duty for part of that time <hes> but I feel like they're Kinda hitting that point in the season now where maybe you need to really start thinking that they're as good as what they've shown just watching this that was what the outside of his boot and it's just like rising even as it hits the back of the net it. It's just like it was perfect. It's one of those moments of be like all flowery soccer guy but it's like sometimes you get these moments V me. Is it what you do get these moments when you're like yeah that's that's why they call it the beautiful game you see it every once in a while. I really thought that goal was one of those. Don't ever don't ever say the beautiful game that's were retiring that phrase too many awful pizza and that's Nice so you've waited for the first time that I ever decided to use it to make fun of it like you've never wanted all the times. We've heard people say you've never made a comment. That's why we loved the beautiful game whole a my other. Thank from this weekend was what you mentioned Seattle and Portland that was also really fun game of two teams that clearly clearly have no use for one another with like those great scenes at the end when Roman Torres is is basically inviting everyone to come fight him in the tunnel underneath the stadium play it. He could get through at least a thousand people before someone really he's. He's a stocky Guy <hes> for me. The big takeaway and this one was Brian Fernandez who has come on as a midseason acquisition as a DP signing from <hes> back in May and he immediately looks like one of the best players in the league he has eight goals in league play since he joined Portland and I feel like this is now another case of a South American player coming into M._l._S. and immediately exerting himself as one of the best players in the league and that continues to be a good thing. I believe so yeah <hes> good for him. Here's what <hes> what he said. After the Game Fernandez he said to come to another stadium especially in a big rivalry like doesn't be able to score and quiet people. It's beautiful. I like that attitude quiet people well. It is about shutting. There's nothing like it. The pocket of your away fans explodes and everything else is silent and they did have a Gr as they always do but there was a great traveling section of Portland fans there. That was a fun game. I Dunno fighting and sports isn't good. I know that but I just kind of like the ends of these games when it's just like the emotion is still so raw and there's this chaos out. There sounds as if good Angel Andy is fighting with Evil Devil Landy kind of <hes> yeah <hes> so that is about it from M._l._S.. We'll have a little bit in what to watch for. I'll tell you what we'll take a very quick break. I'm so excited for our five stars five years J._J.. metoo before we take the break <hes> can everyone just go and read Andrew Courcelles article on E._S._p._N.. A._F._C. with the aforementioned Latin which gets into some some things we just don't have time to touch on. It's very good. It's very very good and <hes> I'm sure the League office are absolutely delighted with what his so he's now. He's propped himself above the league he really he believes he's bigger than not the team J._J.. He's bigger than the league. That's what he believes. I guess you could debate whether or not it's true. I don't I mean I'm sidetracking things here. Let's go to the bride. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere. GEICO presents aches another voicemail from your roommate shepherd's Pie. I in the basement completely flooded eh anyway. I called for someone to fix it but in the meantime I was thinking we could finally have that Indoor Pool Party. We will always wanted. I got him cool Swan floaty things already go and could you pick up some chips on your way home later. The GEICO Insurance Agency could help keep your personal property. He protected like if your roommate isn't the brightest pool float in the flooded basement visit GEICO DOT COM to see how easy it is to switch and save on his insurance and back now but off side J. J.. Are we going to be doing within again. We have not decided if there's you have always been the one championing. If there's a demand for we could do it and we could answer via email but I think doing a helper fan show would drag us well. Here's the thing I'll put it out there right now so we'll let let's just decide right here. Now will do it okay. It's become a thing a a staple of the show leading up to the premier league season so I say we have to do it under we do it as a huge review leave your email we email undertain Bingo okay in your at leave leave. We will put up on our twitter page. We will pin to the top of it our help a- fan questions yes. We have ten questions that typically don't have anything to really do with soccer. If you don't have a Premier League team that you currently root for you can look at them. You fill them out and you send them back to us and then we will go through your responses and based on the nature of those responses we will customize whatever team best suits. It's a soccer Rochard test right <hes> in the past. We have done them as a podcast. It's excruciating hitting no one wants it except the people who filled out there are sheets so this year as an itunes review leave your responses <hes> to our questionnaire and in the I tunes review leave <hes> I would say either what you think J._J.. Leave your either twitter handle or some way for us to get in touch with you that <hes> so we don't have to do this as a podcast because we're not can't do it. We can't do if we had a <hes> yeah. I know we just don't have the bandwidth to it's. It's quite an undertaking last year. It's last year gone through about three hundred most of being <hes> all right mailbag yes male busy <hes> caught off site pottage email dot com at your soccer pod coffee E._S._P._N.. On instagram <hes> N._P._S. L. Story from Josh deering. My Name Is Josh during I've interacted with podcast a couple of times I had a friend. Tell me a crazy N._P._S.. L. Story last night that I wanted to pass along. This is a good one hundred he's interning for Ann Arbor A._F._C. Summer and works all their home games. They made the playoffs and got to host the Rochester Lancers on Tuesday. July Sixteenth Ann Arbor Stadium doesn't have lights so they play all their home games at six o'clock Rochester after the start time to to be moved back so they had more time to get to the stadium and the teams agreed on six thirty Kickoff Ann Arbor booked field thirty minutes away in case they needed to move indoors for some reason Rochester bought thirteen players to the game including fifty-year-old Manager Doug Miller who subbed gene for about ten minutes in the second half it gets better though it was raining but no one expected any lightning so of course there were two different lightning strikes that caused delays the second delay pushed the start of the second half back with the game tied at this point they're running out of light but stack the second half and the hope that someone would score and they could end the game when it got dark no one did they called it after about seventy minutes and no one can decide what to do next my friends my friends at Rochester refused refused to move to the indoor location. Stay overnight and finish the next day which is what the League suggested Rochester leaves on their boss and everyone goes home without any idea of what's happening next or who won the semifinals are on Friday July nineteenth so they need need to figure this out the league decides they're going to determine the game via coin flip then changed their minds and announce it will pick up in Erie Pennsylvania on Thursday July eighteenth both teams score and the game goes to extra time Rochester eventually wins ends on penalties so they're driving all the way back to Detroit for the semi's after going from Ann Arbor back to Rochester and then to Erie. I was just curious. If you have ever heard of anything like this before no no of course night there's nothing the thing is as bad as this. I've heard bad stuff like when Scotland went to play stony in a World Cup qualifier for France Ninety Eight. I think Craig Burley was on the team and they there was a row with the Estonian F._A.. Over floodlights so the game had to be and floodlights were not good enough or something and the game was played at three o'clock. Estonia decided we're not showing up so Scotland lined out in full kit did the national anthem scored a goal round the goal into an empty net and then went off the field. Did the clock continued to tick for the remainder of the game or was it fulltime good. Actually I don't think they even ran the ball into the net. I think they tipped off the referee Boo fulltime that was it and that's technically a three no yeah forfeit Marcus Polo Oh Sarah I can't speak for every Brazilian out there but I did not Miss Nair at this year's Copa Americas talented as he is. There was always something about him that did not sit right with me but all of us had a hard time expanding on what it was until I believe it was Alejandro. Moreno who said at the end of Brazil Zillah versus Peru that Neymar is a sideshow on and off the pitch and not part of the show with the performance Everton had at the Copa America and if his form continues I think Neymar has lost his position and from my perspective has lost the support of Brazilian fans. I do love the Guy and wish the best for him on hope he can regain his form the last night this was from instagram's. The kids love instagram. What's our instagram caught offside E._S._p._N.? There you go yeah and the kids love it. They're all over it you know with with the Justin Bieber's and you know you know everything. That's hip and cool the last night I have to say that interview with John Barnes which I'm listening to know is absolutely fantastic. We got a lot of great feedback on the Barons Interview <hes> he was awesome he was he really was. It was nothing to do with us. No really he was just you wind him up and let him go on any topic and he's great someone asked. Could we have him on as a regular spot and I said we don't have the budget for that or for anything Asterik for anything I bought a new pencealong train caught up caught us. I pencil expense that Yep don't veto me <hes> Brandon Yawn finally he Andrew Andrzej during the M._l._S. preview pod this season one of you mentioned that the San Jose earthquakes will be the most improved team this year. Who was that Andrew it was you and you were right J._J.? Was Right after a rough start to the season with four straight losses Dave one nine times drew for Austria no sitting at fourth in the Western Conference. What are your thoughts on this massive improvement and do they have shot and making a deep in the playoffs? I'm going to say what I think of this. Massive improvement comes down to the way that they play on that. Some teams are struggling to figure it out but also I put it down to this. Jake Pisani wrote this for the quicks website and is something we noted in preseason as a major part of preseason earthquake spent more than two two weeks in Cancun Mexico largely focusing on stamina and conditioning in fact the club's training regimen on certain days would not include a soccer ball at all that is utterly old school hoosiers yeah. Do you know what's even more old school man for man marking Almaeda has them man for man marking at every area now in the first four games that did not work out well but since then eight they've come up against teams that obviously in the wound battles they're winning the majority of those battles and they're winning the game but that is most teams operate a mixture of zonal amount for manned system but to go completely man for man is I kinda say it give Almeida a comb over. Give Him Sheepskin Jacket. Give Him lots of rings a medallion give him Sun shades and a London accent. He is a proper football man. Wow there you have it <hes>. Let's see we move on now to what to watch for J._J.. Wolves season begins on Thursday. Yes how about that and you know who they're playing Crusaders F C yes Crusaders. This is Europa League qualifying first leg Thursday to forty five isn't crusade crusaders are a very old D- Northern Irish team but isn't it the most American name you could think of what we call ourselves the crusaders and yet. I can't think of a American team that has that name and so I just drawing a total probably college team I would think division two football Alan Thinking. Maybe I'm drawing a total blank on an obvious one yeah. You'd expect wolves to cruise through that tie. Yes you really would <hes>. Let's see M._l._S. Friday night ten o'clock another good one another Good Friday night game to start your M._l._S. weekend. again l. a._f._c. in action against atlanta united f c that's coming thick and fast this is this an important game not because it's a big matchup between two potential rivals bram last boss this is the beginning because i left l. a._f._c. need to banish the memory of what happened in the derby quickly and usually like little gimme and they're not getting well at least it's at home <hes> so that will help them i would think somewhat one thing for atlantic additive see is <hes> pity martinez is starting around into form he's coming off what was probably best performance so far since coming to atlanta because that move has not up to this point has not gone out as they had hoped he is not looked happy there an but that was not the case the weekend i wonder i feel atlanta we could do a bit of a deeper dive on and talk to somebody from there because i wonder how much of this is tom martino having left that club like i feel like there was this thought that you're already piling on frank yeah if you want to call that sure because i i i just kind felt like there was a thought with atlanta where martina was just not going to get the kind of credit that maybe he deserved because they just appear to be so talented and i know they lost al marrone and that's a tough thing for frank to have to have coped with as well but i don't know i do wonder if if some of this is maybe scheme oriented and martinez is missed that's not a crazy crazy sentiment saturday ten thirty some good some western conference action this weekend portland and l. a. galaxy so both l._a. eight teams bounce back with <hes> with difficult games this coming weekend <hes> which sports should be should be fun <hes> n._w._s. l. j._j. wednesday midweek action ten thirty p._m. portland thorns and houston dash portland played laid out a wild two two draw against utah over the weekend christine sinclair had a great volley for portland that was brilliant and then of course kristen press we were only just talking about how when she scores a goal it's a great goal like she doesn't doesn't have any little like nothing happened she only has great goals kristen press <hes> with utah trailing one nil she did this class near side yes welcome back indeed we'll come back with a maytag independently and then i and then still from a difficult angle even if the meg never happened it was always going to be a tough goal to score from the angle that she was coming from but this is what she does she great goal she is and i'm glad she got over the hangover that i witnessed at the parade <hes> things in that game remained one one until another familiar lindsey horon scored like a really weird goal off a meghan klingenberg long free kick late in the game eighty seven th minute and haram was hurt on the play it looked like as she was kind of like going through her follow through on the shot she sorta got kicked in the ankle she was down for a while <hes> looked like portland is going to get out of there with the three points however in the ninetieth minute rachel coursey equalised on <hes> a really nice goal as well so it does end to our portland do still go top top of the table <hes> thanks in part to north carolina losing two one to chicago which i will talk a bit more about in li- woman of the match well i will say that sunday our other game <hes> what's watch for sunday four o'clock rain f._c. and chicago red stars but i'll leave that <hes> a leave that to you j._j. before we get now to <hes> the red cards and man of the match i do want to tell you my friend about him one of our favorite products on this show i mean you've been bald for years but you've covered it up nicely with that way but the fact that i can still tell it's a wig says all you need to know about why you need to explore him sixty six percent of men starts to lose their hair by age thirty five once let's you've noticed thinning hair that can be too late the best way to prevent more hair loss to do something about it while you still have some it's time to get a handle on those precious lock so i ask you this do you wanna ball about to pop up on your hairline recede or do you want to do something about it i here's your solution forums dot com a one stop shop for hair loss skin care and other wellness supplements for men now thanks the science baldness can be optional hinz helping guys be the best version of themselves with licensed physicians and f._d._a. approved products to help treat hair loss no snake oil pills or gas station counter supplements no more awkward in person doctor visits or long pharmacy lines four hymns connects you to real doctors online which could save you hours it's completely confidential and discreet get the hair loss treatment everyone is talking about it was featured in g q men's health esquire playboy to name a few so here's the deal order now listeners to this podcast and get started with the hymns complete haircut for just five dollars to day right now while supplies allies last and subject to doctor's approval see the full website for details and safety information this could cost you hundreds if you went to the doctor or pharmacy somewhere else but all you have to do is go to four hymns dot com slash offside that's f. <unk> omar h. i. n. s. dot com slash offside four hymns dot com slash offside awesome it's just that simple that simple so where are we doing the five stars for five years the end at the end don't you worry all right he works let's do this it's such a good one card i want people to get <hes> can i get my red card i you met all right my i can my red card to the liverpool via <hes> i._c._c. macha fenway park i know once he said oh we'll wasn't an a._c._c. game oh i'm so it was just a regular a priest yeah yeah you're right you're right that's right it's part of their <hes> what was it their western union to our western union toured the western union cope i believe it's called it's not called that well at any rate i assume all for all preseason friendlies are an icy see the even if like i don't care who's playing them i feel like wolves crusaders f c on thursdays actually and i dare you speak about crew sanders like i know once you start playing you sometimes lose sight of whether a game is important or not you're just out there playing trying to make a name for yourself trying trying to impress your manager but that doesn't change the fact that what we saw from severe in their match against liverpool at fenway park it was just kinda weird yet ever been negga elbowing harry wilson after already having been booked for a heavy challenge against harry wilson earlier in the match you we had diego carlos is rough challenged on alex chamberlain and then perhaps most troubling <hes> was yours nag neons kickout at yasser larussa in which <hes> larussa had to be stretchered off and was seen on crutches after the game here was clearly unhappy urine klopp talking about some of this afterwards season two great headlines with things saying the things i think about that situation that museology situation is with yasser looks like he was lucky okay <hes> but of course always with these things we have to wait a little bit he couldn't keep on playing so that's the first not a good sign but in addition we've also case similar it looks to harry harry got the dog on his on his joan chemo and okay and <hes> and the thing is i not cool <hes> yeah klopp he did as good a job restraining himself there as i think he could have because he was he you could see him like kinda china's getting into it a little bit with severe coaches yeah the end of the first half i think there's just a general sense amongst professionals that you don't treat these games with the kind of abandoned that severe did yeah <hes> <hes> so ultimately i mean like i said not all games are created equal that's kind of what we have to know committing dangerous and i think more importantly just kinda unnecessary challenges in a preseason friendly it just it just felt kinda wrong to me so i went with that from red card yeah thank you for doing that save me doing <hes> andrew they say this came to me this morning <hes> my car goes to the modern football fan not all of them but some of them quite a lot of them actually so it walked this morning and it was doing a few things i was thinking about this podcast so i quick look at our i choose reviews all good except for a one storrow i don't want i can't can i leave the room because we'll ruin my day won't so it's not so much that it was a one star review because we've we've had phony ones before would says brilliant podcast and then one staff just because we've asked for five which is fine that's not cool the headline for this one is the title is another manchester united hater and hater is in in block capitals yeah thumbs-down gold bridge is a tool and should not and should not be the voice of manchester united apart from the obvious one-star what really got me was the hater in all caps of course as if discussing negative aspects to united's this preseason makes us hate also why you talking like a fifteen year old valley girl you just a hater but it's that same mentality that has more on fans booing actually young on preseason tour in singapore again oh so you're doubling down oh yeah i'm moving on with this it's is not just united funds i will broaden this again some fan tried to twits plan me that they weren't doing young as a person or a player merely they were booing the lack of trying to transfer activity like as if ashley young is is this is edward the this is the footballing version of they weren't booing they weren't booing you they were saying bourne bourne 's these the man no they're saying bornes who earns you seeing boo boone's i always love mr burns need to stand up and ask them directly that is genius it's so good and then there's his hands mormon going i was saying you're and then i started thinking about some of the stuff i saw on twitter yesterday in the wake of the las vegas district attorney deciding not to prosecute cristiano renaldo over a decade old accusation of sexual assault some mm accredited journalists were tweeting about what this means and the various aspects and sensitivities of the whole issue then come barreling into their mentions our twitter accounts with cr seven on renaldo in the handles all experienced lower lawyers to weigh the sound of it you know everyone that was in there though they knew why renaldo was absolutely innocent and that this was just a facade sharad all these lawyers verbally abusing owning ops vacating on an utterly israeli grave matter all in the name of a footballer that gel-like from football fans who cannot let linda pursue henry wife of f._a._s._d. owner john henry tweet about anything without screaming announce fakhir dear god that's gone now are some other player to the manchester city fans who lead to the defense of their billionaire royal family owner over anne question that's posed about human rights are financial fair play what is going on with these people well i mean they don't obviously represent all football fans but it does seem like a lot sometimes who are these people when did football fans become like this so here's my only issue with everything you said there i believe that that is not something exclusive to modern football fans i just believe that modern football fans have more avenues to voice it this is a thing that has always existed i think twitter behavior social media behavior no manifesting itself in real life in the case of the singapore booing why are these people like what accounts are they following with that like how is ashley young the pariah in this again you're right but booing a player who doesn't necessarily deserve those boos has been a thing that he's always gone on in preseason recess preseason friendlies our gener- generally like joy fests there's just you know here we are all together fans of this team we rarely get to see a foreign country and we're singing songs booing ashti young wrong is as is coming from somewhere it's coming from somewhere fans gonna fan this is what they do by the way what they do yeah i guess that <hes> review was because we said we'd have gold bridge on the pod well i talked about how i view him he's he's the manchester united fan that i follow on twitter so when he's irate about stuff to me that's a glimpse into how they're feeling maybe that's wrong but i love him and i'm not going to change caught offsides man of the match j._j. minute of the match goes to the new england revolution a few months ago i made the my red card because they were so objectionable bad <hes> they were showing such lack of competence in front of goal remember they had gone like a what was it a month Without a striker scoring a goal for them I just I- Harpoon them. I land best to them. I I tore into the didn't they go six years without a completed pass so now that they are unbeaten in their last ten. I felt compelled to do do the right thing and make them my man of the match first and foremost I want to give Bruce Arena some love because <hes> that is a thing that hasn't really happened much in the past couple of years. It's a year since we did our interview. <hes> of the ten games unbeaten that they've gone arena has presided decided over nine of them amazingly. They've now worked their way back into being in the playoffs if the season were to end today and only two points back a fourth place and why C._F._C. The stand out players really flown under the radar across much of the League has been Carlos Ellis Gill <hes> in the last six games. He's got three goals and six assists including goals in their last three straight really this I honestly a lot of guys are worth mentioning from them right next. He'll Bunbury's got five goals in his last seven games. <hes> also the addition of Gustavo Bow Hello <hes> and the lift that he has brought to this team his debut goal was one of the goals of the season that he scored off of that corner kick so look. I was very hard on New England earlier. In the season with things were going badly <hes> it would only be right of me to applaud them now when they seem like they have righted the ship and Bruce Arena deserves honestly a lot of credit for that amazing match experienced manager comes in and does good job less manatt lesson experienced. Totally inexperienced manager fails the job Yep. We're not saying Brad. Friedel doesn't deserve another shot at management. No he should never manage but you know obviously he should but you know Bruce Arena is a legend. That's something that can get forgotten at times and I think he thirty years of experience -perienced not that he owes it to anyone but he is franz purposes. Whether it's intentional he's re proving it to a lot of people that had kinda lost faith in him while Andrew I've nothing to prove and he should feel that way. I mean he his like. He's got an incredible resume somme. He doesn't have anything to prove but there's going to be a lot of people out there who hate him for what happened in two thousand seventeen and so you know I kind of a kind of applaud him for what's going on right now my man of the match it's a women of the match actually <hes> so there was a lot positives to come out of the Chicago Red Stars defeating the North Carolina Courage to one at the weekend. <hes> Morgan Brian told Sarah Span of E._S._P._N.. It's a movement women are a force and we're creating a movement. She was talking about the league. She was talking about. The record attendance seventeen thousand three hundred and eighty eight people turned up not was absolutely grit. That's part of it. The second part is SOM- curve for me. I'm breaking down this goal that she scored which turned out to be the winner Andrew she is a slippery as an eel and she creates chances where there are known and where there should be non. This is how valuable she is so just before we play the audio the goal it's a mistake by Dow Camper okay. The ball runs. NHS across her foot yeah. I don't know what happened yeah it. was I mean she doesn't really make mistakes but this was one and it's fine because Air Sega's covering there should be no problem but care turns in a kind of a nonchalant celon fashion which invites air say to make a tackle before it's too late boom nutmegged skips by and slid under the goalkeeper. Here's how it sounded really drunk ca like grateful. I still think that are better but it Sam Kerr and why can't why don't you lack this gene that allows you to just enjoy a great player. Scoring a great goal. I have cast line fault and yes oftentimes. A goal is scored because somebody else screwed up but like I I don't know take some appreciation of a great player. Having a great moment it's growing up with Alan Hansen Ryan who was the best defender of his era being a pundit on T._v.. For like twenty years and he always breakdown a tale of defending now. It's just like I don't know that's where it comes from a lot of proper running and everyone who showed up to the game at the weekend that was awesome good stuff good stuff <hes> before we get out we do have five stars five years recited. I'm really excited. This was following L. classical in April twenty seventeen. I believe <hes> A- An amazing <hes> the Euro Madrid won the league my favorite out SASCO game but Barcelona won this game and incredibly dramatic fashion and Ray Hudson was just he basically even by his own standards. It felt like he really lost sight of himself that day <hes> so so we came back in and play a game <hes> which I think it will be explained in the clip here <hes> but we played a game sort of at raise expense although we came to find out that he can be heard it he contacted us and he said the two guys were just having great fun on grants so here has this was this was a really fun one. This is our five stars five years memory the week here's your five stars for five years memory of the week on caught offside ready to play a little game account wit. It's called Ray Hudson multiple choice what we're GONNA do is. I'm GonNa play a good title. I'm GONNA play for you. The beginning of a Ray Hudson insane comment and then it's GonNa stop and I'm GonNa give you multiple choice and you have to tell off awesome which one it is that he says next this. Do you ready all right this. This came from rocket pitches goal here we go turns into an absolute blue is it a Harpoon strike be Howitzer or see heat seeking missile howitzer sales it on his first try. That's because I'm a military history. Both all right we move on now now. This comes from the immediate aftermath of Hamas Rodriguez equalizer here we go like is it a a ghost out of a thick Scottish fog be a galloping stallion sprinting down on the home stretch or see a gift from the heavens right in the nick of time from the Scottish fog Scottish Eddie gets me much yet I would. I would have said he was smoking like a baby. Maybe I assassin or just kind of don't try to be right. There's only one ray Hudson. Don't try to come up with your own shy sneaking from a crash an expert when it comes to all right this is after messy. I don't even know if this was the first I of the second goal but here we doesn't matter born in a is it a cresting wave as pummels the beaches that are Madrid be U._S._A.. Be Crossfire Hurricane and he is jumping Jack Flash or C. born in a crevice of Argentina that was blessed by God. I'll tell you that last one is hood Sonian but it's not it's be cross by hurricane and he is jumping Jack Flash three two more for you. I believe this is also spawned from the messy winner. Okay all right here. We go this as cool as a bomb disposal expert on the run be as cool as a cucumber floating in a pool of ice or see as cool as as Dean Martin Artan in the back booth of a Las Vegas nightclub. Oh jeeze a bomb disposal expert on the run. Why on the run? Why did he feel the need to include that I would think that bomb disposal ing is a pretty tense Hans Aeschbacher Yeah? You need to be cool way way. See running if he's running. He's freaking everybody out and he's not a cam bomb disposal expert or no. That's not what we're supposed to. I got the wires confused. Your four for four. This is truly impressive is it. Is it really this to complete. What does five for five? I was GONNA say it's not a TRIFECTA. It's not a I don't know whatever fives are you. Don't have the vocabulary only ray Hudson could tell title scouts European cup-winning this again having to do with messy so many decisions to me for the N._F._l.. But he's but he's like a a lion choosing between a wildebeest and berries be e Microsoft mainframe making decisions at the speed of light Christ or see a silicon chip with legs and covered with is I mean these the rantings of a man you'd see at nine o'clock on the New York subway you went with a lion choosing between a wildebeest and berries silicon chip with links and comeback with is what are you talking about. I even he lost himself. I think in that chip with links and come up with is I can imagine him in a straight jacket in a padded room saying these things as the doctor goes now now ray with the needle time to go to bed covered with is silicon chip covered with ice so does this terminator two. You went four for five pretty good though considering all of these weren't saying now you obviously heard the way he called the winner right Alba inside. It's on the left foot of myself the spotlight so I had this weird taught about Phil Shannon God Phil Shan be not a buyer you know trying to chat up a woman and then to know what he's like a smooth gems bud character brain not again please the subtlety like every moment Phil Shen's life being ruined to touch messy strive Phil Shans Baptism the baptism of his child really somber moment silence tipped piece is being here five stars for five years memory of the week the levels of insanity like the the Mike Mike Gross. What is it a microchip with legs and is covered with is terrifying you know he is a national treasure ray? Tell us about the dreams don't ever change this courtship going said likes. He's a professional broadcast like you like look he <hes> he's passionate guy yeah who has come up with very very contrived ways who was it by the way that that <hes> submitted that five star <hes> I'm putting on the spot yeah. Let me have a quick look. Keep talking well at any rate <hes> if you have a memory because we've been celebrating five year anniversary of this this podcast so if you have any memory from over the past five years submitted as an itunes review leave your five stars for your five years memory <hes> we will do. I can't guarantee it because our stuff is just kind of strewn about. It's very hard to like find these things but we will do everything in our power to go back and try to find these memories. We've gone back. This has actually been this has actually been really fun going back and listening to some of these weird things that <hes> that we've done from over the five years of the I mean it was some of it. We're really proud of some of it is <hes> who forgettable but yeah and you guys have been great submitting some really good one so we have a couple of others that are in the hopper and we're always looking for for more for sure <hes> that will how are we giving away the Jersey. We gotTA figure that out. I know we have this this beautiful Christian Pulisic Jersey just sitting there collecting dust. We do have to figure that out <hes> a couple of other things to look forward to obviously we'll be back next week with another podcast where we'll take a look look it <hes> more happenings in the transfer window because it seems like as we're getting closer and closer to the end of the window more things are going to crystallize and go down <hes> M._l._s. another big weekend and W._F._l.. And other big weekend there so there's still a lot to get to but I do want say that we are closing in on the start of the premier league season and as always we will have another one of our three part <hes> season preview <hes> podcast series that <hes> seems like you guys have enjoyed in the past so we're going to continue to do that again. I think he loved doing.

Real Madrid League China Madrid Gareth Bale Dermott Corrigan football Andrew Courcelles M._l._S soccer Portland L. A._F._C. Barcelona Saddam Union Great Champions League Bob it Champions League US
Electric Bookaloo: Catelyn IV

Game of Thrones The Podcast

1:20:41 hr | 4 months ago

Electric Bookaloo: Catelyn IV

"Welcome back to game of thrones to electric superglue. This week dr trip fuller. He specializes in philosophy intersections between science and religion. He and i will be discussing callan's fourth. Pov chapter this is our first. Look at king's landing stephen. I will be covering blackwater. That's episode nine of season two in you'll remember This episode is quite a doozy. Hey by the way. Steve was really touched by those of you who followed him on instagram. He was definitely not expecting it so happy. Belated birthday steve. Osborne and of course. It's not too late to follow him on instagram ozzfest. A u. s. f. e. s. t. Quick note about my words. I view this week. I asked three questions about feedback related to the shape of electric guclu. I'd love to hear back from you. Book at bald move dot com without ado here is boss man. Iran iran this from luke. Which game of thrones character. Disappointed you the most. Tv books might sound odd question but in the short little fingers was not at all satisfied to me in both the book and the show. He is one of the most intriguing characters. I hope gherman has grander plans for him. I actually disagreed that night. I remember disagreeing with his take was happening on the podcast. Because my take little finger is. He's climbing the rungs of the ladder of chaos and he made a fundamentally emotional decision to kind of like back sanza because he both has pervy. You know Mentor like he he definitely is grooming her. Okay yeah and we're the sake of cat who who was always a trophy for him that he could never acquire right. he's gonna pound. I mean this is all grows terminology on how to talk about it and inaugura sweb. He's gonna pound Santa into catch shape and then get like you know hey like younger hotter version of what i always wanted right and sands that to her credit because of the rapid growing up she asked to do can see through that and he kind of makes an emotional rather than a purely tactical logical mistake and that one thing shook his grip on the ladder and put him on a trajectory where he just ran out of options. He's not going to talk himself out of any kind of scheme when he's in winter fell the seat of kind of like for better worse. Goodness of west rose like loyalty and honor and pragmatism. Like he went away way far away from from any any of the real politic of the capitol right and So like i thought saw him. Yeah he's he ran out of things. The the rungs the the climb because it decisions he made. And you want him to be able to snatch victory out of the jaws at defeat but like where was the victory to snatch in his final moments I thought it was brilliant. I thought i loved the way there was one of the few things about the show. That the genuinely shocked me. Because i felt like we'd all figured out john parentage like years before I i kind of knew. I kinda had a guess of were. Danny's arc was going but the thing with little finger at the end where he's already had success dividing sister against sister and he thinks he can do it again and just go sideways on him in in the worst possible setting if it was in a back room he could have gotten out of it right but because it was a public setting santa and are you have all the same power that joffrey has in that public setting were. Ned gets beheaded And you don't have to be a political genius to just proclaim. I declare you. You know treasonous and you're doomed to die. He's got a genius to say that in public. Now you just have to be have the political will and power to it Yeah i do agree with the petitioner here. I do think that they what he might be complaining about. All this works kind of rodley on paper but like it was maybe a little clumsy and execution with the. because. I think you're right like drawing a parallel between. Hey i did pip. Sister against mr pistre. I did pit sister against sister successfully. I'm trying to get it's working. This isn't like you know you with all the safety net. 'cause now he's working with amongst people who you know. Maybe can't be bribed bought as easily. I do think that there was a little. you know. little bit of clumsiness. And how they told the story a little bit more instead of it being shades of gray it was a little bit more kind of black and white and railroad. But i do feel like that you know that that was also. Part of game of thrones injuring. The in game like characters didn't have the flexibility and options that they did have in season one at as those paths got fewer and fewer. There's less good things. Yeah there was. I think they could have done it. Ten to twenty percent better. There's something to be said for the fact that knit didn't understand king's landing because all he ever knew was winter fell. Yeah the land honor and respond in reverse. Little finger did not understand. Winter fell because the only thing he ever knew was king's landing to north remembers baby. And i i think that he i think. I think there's an interesting parallel there and i i find interesting anyway. The the south gets north remembers. Which is back to his original question. Which game of thrones character. Disappointed you the most tv or books man. I got a In it's it's probably you private similar. Take on the little finger that you didn't little finger but honestly tyrian. I guess is the one where i remember at the close of book. Five thinking man. How is martin gonna get tyrians mojo back because this guy is just laid low and cannot barely get out of bed. He's obsessed with the portrayal of his brother and his his father and his sister. And this this wife that now he's even double fucked over because she was true blue. You know the one. The he asked away gaining. Yeah and like you know where to go. Where where where. Where is he going to get the you know. Get the bounce back in a step in. Like i feel like on. Game of thrones the show. He had a couple of flashes. Where he you know like that that part where like. He had this empathy with the dragons that were was able to do something. Crate crazy gamble. But he trusted his gut in the work to didn't ever really pay off in the way that like a lot of us were thinking about. You know. I don't know how fabric austere is going to be a fucking dragon writer. But i'm just saying there's three dragons only two of them ever got rid feels like an oversight. I can oversight. That's not true. The night king got to ride that dragon. That's true i'm talking. Good guys though the driving we all know that the next no longer ran so there you go so he did fly. But i felt like they're may tyrian just felt like he was always wrong. Those last three seasons. So you're saying you you clearly you love tyrian but i like where he ended up now i thought he is like it's not he's not the most shameful of the way they left characters or did them but like yeah. There was something tearing was clearly. My favorite character. I think I think i always said tyrian. Jim always said davos but like he's clearly my favorite character and I just you know this isn't the same period and season to season three And again you know. He had his options and he had limited things. And like you know he went from milwaukee possibilities down to just two or three. But i didn't necessarily like the branches that he chose and his last decision trees. It's interesting because you meant you started this by talking about the books. Where like where he is in the books right. Yeah how's it going. How's george going to give him his mojo back and it's clearly. The show. runners had the same problem but never got quite as mode. Never you never quite got back but there is something about having sort of an older wiser tyrian that is somewhat more interesting than than the carefree. Early pirin yeah i liked. I liked the less cocky less cocksure more. You know a little bit more pragmatic but also maybe a little bit more less cynical more pragmatic less cynical dozo usually go hand in hand but like you know i more willing to see like inherent goodness in the world. I do like this. I like the fact that he's he's constantly a cynic like in a classic in the classic sense of the term. He's he's he's a he's a cynic until he actually finds a real dragon. He because he's always like been enamored with real dragons and then when he puts the faith he puts his faith in the in the dragon queen. That's exactly what gets them in trouble. So he's like cynic and then all of a sudden all the sudden he's like all in like he's like part of the dragon religion. He's them as soon as he gets religion he gets. He really be really falls from grace. That's not a bad read on it. Honestly because i'm gonna do this. Inverse of luke said right so As far as the show goes what is the most satisfying character arc. Brin i was gonna say dan i love brian. She always wanted to be a night. She wanted to see be seen as an equal amongst your peers in she got it in the most bittersweet way yeah Which i think you know like. I don't know that i love what they did. A jamie but like the brand getting what she wanted and also losing something important. Along the way felt very game of thrones and like i said i'm not huge fantasies and eight but like that night of the realm i think is the third episode where it's like all your old friends talking on the eve of of a of a hopeless battle and doing those quiet character moments that they kind kinda dispensed with in terms of big action still great episode and i think fair episode. I i actually cry. I i've cried. I've watched that episode probably three times or whatever. Yeah and two three. I've cried that that is the one of the one of these best moments of the entire show when she beautiful is this. Is this a controversial opinion. I think aria did was a you know like there's a messing the middle but like that feels like a plausible trajectory for her. You know this assassin girl that takes down the night king That we you know like Again whether you think that's too hasty or whatever the fact is that. Like i never believed that the nike was going to be the ultimate villain like that you know There would also be the task of rooting out the lancasters. And all that kinda stuff. So like yeah. I thought that was that was not bad. If you have a question for iran or anthony you can send those to book at bald move dot com support for this podcast comes from paypal. Small business owners. Turn your smartphone into a cash register pay pal. Qr codes or the safe and easy way to get paid in store and deliver the same security and trust. Pay pal is known for online in person. If you're a cash only business with pal. Qr codes you can accept credit or debit with everyday low fees. there's no additional hardware or software needed generate your unique qr code from the pal app and display it on your device or print it to display in store customers. Scan your code with their pay pal app. You only need your smartphone. Learn more at paypal dot com slash. Us slash get qr code. Three two and one. Yeah now or sankt sinked advil. I feel it happening right now. It is it's on. It's on so trip. Fuller welcome i appreciate you tune in and chiming in from yields scotland. Oh yeah. I'm used to listening to you at a double speed so now i don't know what to do is just normal speed double. Isn't apple a little bit too fast. I don't know. I even cut out the silences. And sometimes i do two point three. You're kidding no all that time driving across los angeles. I trained myself to be a a an audio expert. Just listening at high speeds. Wow i liked to talk slow. So that might work and my work I also like to listen slowly. I like to read slowly. I do everything. Pretty slowly I'm yeah i'm very turtle like when it comes to words how about you. I don't know probably not very turtle like unless it needs to be. You know for emphasis like if you're parenting to get out of hand. I see my parents but my kids. Just get bored. I'm like halfway through a sentence. My kids get bored and they start yawning. You know the the the chapter were talking about when various you know comes in and When i read the book before i had seen the show my voice for him was a slow talker and he always just tapping his fingers together. Why talk like some like eighties cartoon villain and every time he said little birds it would go up. He's a little like that. Yeah i you know what. I think that i like varis a lot. And it's because of the show. I don't know if i would feel the same way about varis if i just had the book to go on. He's i think it's one of the characters where the actor's portrayal really enhanced my experience yet in in but he also gets more bad ass in the show the further it goes on you start to see there's more going on and Since the you know we're still waiting. You're still waiting for the next book it might happen. Yeah you don't know how bad ass various really is because he doesn't reveal a whole lot about himself so let me do trip. Let me do a synopsis of the chapter. And then we'll get into it all right. So here's my synopsis. Calendars travelling by sea aboard the storm. Dancer one hour from her destination king's landing she recalls her childhood relationship with little finger and discusses payment with the captain once docked the plans for cats to remain in riverside in while rodrick cassel seeks out a friend at the armory all. This has meant to be secretive. Once at the in cat sleeps. She's woken by the city guard and taken to a tower near the red keep. She is met by little finger seemingly both he and various new of her arrival and of the attempt on brands life once various has arrived. She reveals that. Valerian steel dagger and little finger reveals that it belongs to tyrian lancaster. Yeah it's getting thick. It's getting thick and king's landing so trip guest choice You wanna talk about a character. A theme plot points or shall we just climb the ladder of chaos. Ooh you know. I you know i listened to the podcast and i feel like early on. People tried to avoid the ladder of chaos and now becoming trendy. So you as a dedicated hipster will always zagreb other people's zig is that what you're saying. Yeah that's on talking about so. I wanted to talk about the The subtle use of power. Because this is one of those moments where you get into king's landing you're figuring out the lay of the land you get you get little fingers backstory than you meet 'em you get various and his little birds. You get everything around the dag rightous fill like the the subtle use of power. In the game of thrones this This is the beginning of it and obviously caitlyn because of her defensiveness for the kids protectiveness stirs up this anger. She's a more hotheaded than her husband. And all this kind of stuff goes down. And then eventually you know She comes back Lady stone heart style you get these three different characters and they each have different ways of using power in caitlyn is like you know the ziga from the zagging of the other two. So yeah you're right. The the game of thrones is well underway. And it's interesting that we have these three personnel. I think three very different personalities in this sort of tower room And so tell me yair is so who do you want what i so. Clearly of each one of them has a different kind of power two-wheeled But which one do you want. I will i will i. I mean i think the chapter starts off where you're getting the background story of caitlyn and i know in you know caitlin chapter three you kind of Between chapter three and chapter four you just presume from the stories told in her perspective that this kind of like energy and anger is building up and all of a sudden that move from protective. You know mother Sitting decider child's bed. Now she's like oh junk he's got a wolf now. I'm gonna go get somebody. I got a dagger they try to. They try to mess with me. Miss my kid a mango find the dagger. And i'm gonna cut some throats. Yes she's hunt absolutely. She's on the hunt. So yeah my son has a wolf. now i'm a wolf. That's right and on top of that. She's already thinking about little finger before it gets to the capital I don't know if she's got unfinished business with him but she knows that he represents a complicated part of her life and maybe represents some sort of danger. I don't know if she knows the extent of the danger but she knows to be wary of him right And i wonder. Do you think that there's kind of a parallel in the sense that you know she's still. She's in the dark as to the background of john snow and has to like learn to deal with that and stuff and this is her realizing there's a back story right before she got married. The yup brother dies and now she's like switches she's getting married to and then But she saves little finger by intervening when he loses the battle for her that You know this. There's a set of secrets there. Just like her like her husband carries with him when he they go to king landing both. Yeah both of them. Have this person from their past. That knows more of the secrets that they don't know you know the other. Yeah i think so and you know what else that makes me think of. It makes me think that maybe little fingers presence in river run informs her perception of john snow in and maybe fe onto because little finger was award at river run as a child and he ends up. Being a big problem he ends up really sort of inserting himself in a way. That is a con complicated for the family. In it could be that she is now suspicious of that sort of person in her own home holdings in winter fell maybe that maybe that informed some of her suspicion for johnson. Oh i'm not sure. I don't know you know. This is the first time when i was listening along. And then when you said hey you want to jump on. I'm like. I haven't read this book. in a while because you i've taught it but for the show came out I would teach philosophy of religion class but us like philosophy of culture and would pick different different things. I've done like lord of the rings and game of thrones together. Whatever she wants to show came out the kids kids students are much more likely to binge watch. Game of thrones than actually. Read the book So it was fun to go back and read it. And so you're there was just these little little things started the notice that when it should you know a two minute scene in the movie you just kind of scoot on by right right. Well this whole chapter. I mean probably do books versus show differences a little bit sooner than we shed here. But this is this whole chapter is non-existent in the show right so i mean Other than sort of cat meeting little finger. This is the kind of thing that you can do with a simple aerial shot of king's landing because the purpose of this chapter seems to me for the most part is to introduce for the first time in a really robust way the culture of king's landing And the architecture of king's landing and the muck and mire of you know the brothels of you know the ships the quays in the bay and all that business it's a setting chapter so you can set that scene for the most part with the really like two seconds aerial shot. Cgi enhanced tell most of what this chapter tells in just that short little clip. So if you're an if you're screenwriter and you're adapting this book is exactly the kind of chapter that you cut out and then you conflict. The plot reveal with net in the room. Much later on because the In the show little fingers people show up and take her to a brothel and And rodrick still with them wither not running around and then various nixon. Which you know if you're if you're trying to set the stage for little finger and and just you know the cityscape but draw so hbo then why not just have five. Tropical walkthrough randomly right. Sheriff i just have the whole. They have ever seen said in a brothel. First season right. Yes just gotta make sure. All the sixteen year olds are staying up and watching it at night. I do think that this chapter does a lot to introduce sort of this city of kingsland lambie and i'll be honest here. I felt zero nostalgia reading this chapter. I felt like being able to revisit. Winter fell revisit. Sort of tyrian along the road revisit. Even danny's view of the dauth raqi. I got a lot of nostalgia for this story really in this chapter. I just felt like oh. No king's landing. Nothing good is going to happen and kingsland i. it really was this feeling of sort of ominous dread. Like i don't wanna revisit king's landing the this is a horrible place where horrible things happen. So i don't know how did you. What was your experience. Rereading this it will reading it back again. And i haven't read the book in a while. I was much more interested in caitlyn. Because the show doesn't have the whole lady stone heart bet in wondering and caitlyn and the show just doesn't is not like simultaneously the one who understands what king's landing but also has like fierce mommy bear energy sure and she's more much more compelling as a character in the book to me up and so that was the part of this scene. That really stuck out. The other thing is just after you kind of know how things go down. The moment little fingers shows up just like yeah should a knife them. Just kill him right then and there geez all right. So let's talk more about this power in a literal sense neither cat nor little finger. Norovirus really have that sort of brute strength that someone like rodrick cassel has right but because of be like you say subtle because of the way that they wield their influence. They're almost more powerful and more interesting because of it little finger. Has this move where he will plant seeds or give suggestions and stuff to people but if they resist say like sohn's leaving town or whatever escaping then he's like. Oh no no no. Oh no you know and tell. She's like begging him and so he has this thing where he'll like plant seeds. But then give the power to the person that's technically over him as he slowly weaves people in and lets them feel like they're in control and so even in the scene. It's his freaking not dagger but but he's trying to plant it on the and leading various appear like the sneaky one with his little birds and all that kind of stuff but the all you know all the while when you're looking back you're like Little fingers little sneaky little turn on top of what does he do when she comes to town. He makes sure that she and he are the first to meet right He makes sure that they have a little moment alone. Tower room i so he arranges for that to happen but the whole thing he kinda points taveras. This is. This is not really me. I knew you were coming into town and it was viruses idea to bring you here and of course very little birds. Tell him every he knows everything you know. He's really sort of downplaying. His role in the scheme and making vera seem like like. He's a much more formidable political player So even then even then he's like he's pulling the strings but it's better for him if everyone thinks that various has a lot more strain. Yeah yeah it's it's brilliant. It's brilliant. Because i mean he does the same thing i mean i mentioned like saunas escaped and stuff but also like how he plays little robin in similar ways right like he also will be the butt of jokes people will just pick will like put him down. Dismiss him. he'll he'll tolerate it to play the long game they'll leak info and then you know apologize. He he's like one of those people that if you figure out there in your life you just got to cut them out. 'cause he's he's the man he's he's like a maggot in your rice. He's like he's going to if you don't know what he is doing or where he is like you don't want to. You don't want him anywhere near your race. Yeah the i was talking to one of my friends about a rereading it. And he's a huge game for the thrones for and he's like i was saying how i was like man little fingers so sneaky. He's he does way more what he's working with you know and he goes yeah. He's like brady anderson. That one year hit fifty home runs on the juice on the orioles. And there's a small group of people get that reference as wonderfully accurate. Right like they he. He's not sammy sosa. Mark mcgwire but you know for that one season. The drugs just really worked until he made most of everything available to him right. Yeah he had his glory days. You get a big battle. He's like the hero bringing the army out. It's all going good. i'll go and good until whoops. Well let's talk about his relationship with cat d you think that so. He's in love with cat or at least he thinks he had like in whatever his sort of sociopathic way of being in love with cat is he. He feels like he's in love with cat. Do you think that his advances were rappelled by cat or do you think there was something there when they were kids I would say it's kinda like you know you're she's married now. She's got kids and stuff and she's just sitting around in the hot tub in the castle and all of a sudden she gets a friend request from this guy into freshman dance with right and it was a nice time like they were friends but they kind of held hands between things and she thought he was going to kiss him that one time until He got beat. And if you are having a bad day. I don't know your husband ran off with all but to your kids and one of them stuck in a bed right and you see like what would what would have happened. Maybe something like that okay. I i like the analogy. I like the analogy. So you're getting kind of an old flame vibe here. I was getting to and maybe it's like maybe it wasn't sort of like they were romantically involved but i think that there was some reason that little finger thought that he might have a chance with her like a nostalgic play. Yeah yeah before. Things got this complicated. Don't you remember right and rally on like simpler times and you know we were all young and happy back then. And don't you feel like you know. Wouldn't that be nice to feel that way again. Like the the way you felt when you were sixteen or something like that. And you know if you're sixteen though embarrasses in the corner flicking his fingers together talking about little birds at super creepy. It's well you bring him right. You show up for your like class reunion but your wing man is a eunuch. Yeah with too much perfume and totally bald either. You look so much better in comparison and no competition. There's no competition exactly. No so i think at this point. Catlin is thinking yeah. There's no way there's no way that little fingers advances are going to work on me but just reading the head a little bit further by the time she leaves king's landing she really feels like little finger as an ally and so he wins that round. He doesn't get hurt. Like castoff ned and like elope or anything. But he's all about the slow plays all about the long game so he absolutely wins that round right. Yes i could double off the centerfield wall. It didn't get over you but you're in scoring position and act like you're still on the game still. You're still bad right right right right. Yeah i like that analogy lot the bit further in the you know further ahead pop the the popped up when i was reading. It was you know. He has a number of reveals with both catlin and with Sonza either like a knowledge or an object but when he brings neds body to catlin yeah that time he still has that same vibe accept it creeps me out. I really did want to see that sort of complicated relationship with little finger and catlin. I wanna see it more and i'm hoping that we get more of it as sort of lady stone heart. Because she's like a revenge monster right. Yeah and the more she learns i. I hope her senses that if she wants revenge the little fingers got to be at the top of the list. So i appreciate it. How the show did it. But i hope i hope that the books are able to sort of play with that relationship a little bit more i i. I hope it comes out. I feel like i should just you know mail him some of that limitless drug. You know the pd's for scholars. George need a matrix type. Download of everything in your head will feed all that stuff to an ai and the will just construct this narrative an air. If i was him i would have some agreement. Get like a bunch of notes in a box or whatever and like a few a few people that are like super fans that come up with stuff that you stole from it. You don't want acknowledge from reading the boards and you you know that if you die they finish it but they don't tell anyone and you think oh this is good but how they're gonna get away then he little fingers it like the guy that was getting off the boat when Santa was escaping and he just camps that guy he leaves. No he didn't. There's no one to tell tales dead men tell no tells like some superfan ghostwriters pretends. It was an editing. Do maigore the cruel where all of the builders all of the builders of the red keep yeah are destroyed after the after. The secrets are revealed just to that one guy. Yeah i don't. I am open to a lot of options here. I don't want to necessarily break the murder commandment like we could break one or the other. I don't know but the cool that that brings up some of the things that are introduced in this chapter. So we meet captain mario and the storm dancer He's gonna show up very briefly and leave and Then we meet for the first time the great septa baylor and we hear of the cruel. We hear about the dragon. Pit for the first time and famously versus little birds. Oh yeah the little birds that again king's landing is a horrible place. Were horrible things happen. Hey have you ever been to the okay. This is off the beaten track but you're a religion scholar so have you ever been to the behi- house of worship in chicago. No okay if i ever ever in chicago. I think is just outside of chicago. There's this temple. It's massive beautiful temple called the house of worship. Sarah and i went there couple. Summers back and it just architecturally is just magnificent. And when i was there it kinda gave me like a great set of baylor vibe. It's enormous it's domed but it's got these nine pillars and of course you know the sept- has seven crystal spires or whatever it is but i was really getting a great sept vibe when i visited this Behind temple it's magnificent if you're ever in chicago you as a religion person it's a really fund visit well. I am eagerly looking forward to be anywhere other than my house. We have real lockdown in scotland. So i still can't leave three kilometers. Now what's the vaccination like. They're you a vaccine yesterday. Oh nice yeah. I can't the first one. Okay now. we'll things change for you once you get the second or is it still are no. You can't do anything. I just feeling more of an american everyday now. You know. I see a lot of my friends doing things that look human and fun. What do i do Sit in a basement. And pretend i snuck into school the other day to get a book. That's omg. I am probably gave you key when you first arrived rate. Yeah he library wanna know. We'll know i've had in my office. And so i'm at the university of edinburgh and the new college where i am is right next to the castle. So if you've never seen edinburgh castle they it's hard core. Yeah talk like a red. Keep five yeah. It's legit mike out. My window is the castle and some for a while. When i could still go in the office. Only oh this is cool. Yeah i can just look at the castle. And i go outside smoke my pipe which just just so i could smoke pipe next to a castle and feel like a hobbit or whatever but now you got to sneak in but we have a giant gate with big metal key. You have to get in before it gets to the technological parts so just for my little trip. I put it on a necklace. Just like you have a big iron key on a necklace and walkup an open it like i was like gandalf helping somebody in speak friend and enter. Yeah that's great. that's fantastic. I mean that's the experience of scotland. The you kinda want especially if you're studying something old I always felt like when. I'm if i'm studying ancient history. I don't want to be in a modern library. I wanna be like an dusty basement of a stone library that kind of like you know. Inspires you to study ancient history. That was my experience at derm anyway. Plus the museums here have a lot of really really old stuff because they were one of the oji empires and just stolen. Yeah that's how. They used to do things that they do. Thanks if you wanna museum you need really great fiefs. First dev's and a navy let's Just a really quickly here. I have a couple questions for you. The first is of all the characters all the books. The character that you most feel like deep down inside as opposed to the character that your friends and family think you are okay so i well in my because we're reading the section but i have a lot of caitlyn got. I'm like fiercely loyal to family and friends. And if i'm not doing that. I'm like perfectly good being strategic and the full playing the games that are necessary but if like close friend family members up i got ready to cut something and people are. Where did that come from. I'm like well i i. I'm a pacifist in theory but by but you come in mice over the knife. Yeah and i kinda might destroy myself trying to ruin your life. I get the deep the -delity and then once the kind of the fierceness comes out like i'd want to be I mostly just wanna drink in. No things as what i'd like to do but if you were. That's probably what you know. The contrast of expectations versus. So i i like i like this because this is kind kinda surprising to some people that know you that you have that that part of you. So who do they think you are. Ooh i think leasing. See here friends and family of trip fuller. I got the perfect guy. They probably look at you and think that's your maistre marwin lou. They probably look at you and think there's a guy and he does this weird stuff with theology. it's a little hocus pocus. He's traveling the world learning about things. He wears a big old iron key around his neck. Smoking up high. They probably look at you and think that you're maistre marwin as mad option. Though you see like i i take that as a as an affirmation but deep down inside your your little lady stone heart but that you have to do something i right but sure. Because she doesn't have a cool key. I think if. I could have a key that when people see it i bet his office next to the castle. I bet it is look at that key. That's that's what i'm talking about next. Question is So you've recorded like some sort of like thousand podcasts. Or some absurd number with home brewed. Right yes what would be your favorite interview that you did with home brewed christianity. Like what kind of favorite you know like one that you're like the most proud of or like a really good get or like after the interview That was just a really great episode of home. Brewed we'll like the cool gets that are like scholar world. Not that people are going. No there's plenty of them But the coolest ones that were you know. Normal people would be like you and mcgregor or morgan freeman. Yeah like those but like in in nerd world like the one that. When i got done i was like Praise the lord was The first time. I interviewed jack caputo awesome. Yeah it was all. We talked for like two and a half hours right right and after that we became friends. Oh that's that's fun. That's superfund But i mean. I've got to interview most of my like big heroes like urine molten on and catherine keller and john cobb and Recently i've been doing a lot on Religion science because my other big research prob project. I'm working on right now on pants ike ism What is tell me what pants saikin's so so in kind of philosophy of mind right now there for a long time if you asked You know what. Consciousness is the popular opinions. Were kind of. It's not really real. You get this kind of reductionist dick materialistic right count. It's chemistry and get rain or whatever. Yeah yeah The which is what someone like francis. Crick said And then you have those that argue for type of dual ism right so you get the scientific account of the body. But then there's like the soul or the spirit of the mind and they're hooked together and you don't know how but it's kind of supernatural so it all works out right in philosophy of mind. Both of those answers were. Problem is because on the kind of reductionist account. You can't really make sense of our first person experience. Like what is it like for anthony. Anthony the only one with access to that. You and i can't brain scan it and go. Oh that's what it should be anthony. Okay i might be able to make coral. It's between things in your consciousness and that kind of stuff so Pants as one of the responses that says our account of the world has to include within it our own first person experience of ourselves and likely other entities have a first person experience like other humans or other creatures pan psychosomatic said Your acknowledging mind in the world then you either have to say that there some type of mind like part two all things that you know. Each the mona's part of the universe has a mind and a physical side And then it gets more complicated as things evolve over time and more complex relationships and networks and information such or you have to say that there was a time there was no mind and boom it appeared right in the cosmic story It's more parsimonious philosophically to say that mine. Like reality is innate to Material so when we think matters just like the panel a thing. The pan is like all has mind and then in science and a number of different sciences right now there's been moves towards pants. Ike ism be in the brain sciences in anthropology in what's called the ontological turn so i'm currently running. A research project brings together scientists from different disciplines and philosophers from different schools of philosophy that look at the place of minded nature So let's see the big project that i'm working right now. It's called the mindfulness of nature. So you know. I love it so fascinating. So home-brewed christianity dot com. Is that where people find out about what you're doing. Yes all this on the internet and its trip to peace. If you type in trip fuller just type. Yeah just type in trip to ps fuller. Well and if you like. The game of thrones then they clearly should go listen to you and i discuss religion in the game. That's true we did do the an and then the and then iran's visit during the final season of that's great i. I don't think. I knew that a ron visited. But i'll have to have listen to that too. It's rare that a podcast. Guests has more impressive beard than mine. And i felt so intimidated old time i was like worth like. You know. you're if you're a podcast and a religion scholar talking to other religion scholars. They're like you're cool. You use the internet. But if you're talking to iran and you're me you're like now you're cool because what you talk about school because your beard doesn't get in the wave your microphone. How do you do that. How you're a pro your real pro all right man. This has been super fund. And i i'd love to have you back on talk a little bit more about you. Know how you use the book in your classroom. That'd be a lot of fun. And then i'll have to make you decide if you were stuck on an island. And you could only have game of thrones or or the by our little earth. I'll put that bible on there too. You can get you can get any religion sacred scriptures tolkien or martin and yeah there are probably talking every time he he's got a. He's got enough christianity between the lines. You can learn all the languages by the time you leave the island. Well we'll talk in. A man of the story is super tight all the way to the end. The latter books. In game of thrones or ice an ice and fire there are some errant threads that kinda go nowhere. So we'll plus what. If the if you did pick martin you would actually get the whole. Oh man and to see now. You're now you're talking my language Yeah i know. If i get wins and the dream of spring i would probably just voluntarily go to a desert island so i could just see them see now. I know people are excited if you can believe it that we've returned to the walking dead. Where feverishly catching up with season ten so we can be ready to roll out totally new totally live coverage of the final season. Eleven whenever amc unleashes but why we're catching up on this old content. We've added a new way to catch our show and join in the conversation each week at tuesday at one. Pm eastern standard. We'll be talking about this week's episode live at twitch dot tv slash bald move and just as soon as we do our standard podcasts. We're opening up the show to live call in feedback via the magic of stereo dot com. You can get stereos free app at stereo dot com slash bald move. Then watch our twit show on this week's episode and leave feedback using the app and we'll play it live in your own voice and respond right there on air so join us this week. On tuesday at one pm eastern twitch dot tv slash bald. Move or listen live at stereo dot com slash bald move then leave us live feedback using the stereo app. It's as simple as pushing a button and speaking into your phone. Download the free stereo app and select bald move so you can connect with us whenever we're live stay tuned for more details on how to engage with us on stereo at the end of today's episode and a little sample from the previous week. Stereo show. you won't want to miss it. It's all about megan's advanced theory of ball tapping stick around after this week. Show to respond to listeners. Pitch for modifying errands. Metal arm into the ultimate ball. Buster support for this podcast comes from cdw in dell technologies and cdw we get newark. Environments can bring new distractions. Kitchen is new office. It's also home to our new families. Smoothing machine cdw. Experts can reconfigure dell latitude nine thousand series laptops with built in ai. The learns how use his work to minimize disruptions and help you and your organization stay productive when life gets messy. Get the hose for technology. That helps you. Adapt trust dell technologies in. It orchestration by cdw people who get it learn more at cdw dot com slash. Del client steve ever held the position in mill. Management Yes i have. This is a great middle management episode for tyrian totally is. You've got to plan your little reluctant to share it. Well your superiors joffrey regime. That makes it difficult. Well now on that that that resonates probably more in terms of my career. Yeah so jaffrey's a great. He's a certain he's the great. Ceo right yeah. And then you've got a lot of incompetency below you as well right. Got the hound who's just like look. I have other things going on here. And i know that it's on my job description against other stuff happening just going through some things right now. Yeah see. that's the thing. What did you think there was going to beautify. Your whole thing is to kill people. We'll kill a bunch killer. Bunch this is this is there. They are just one of those rare business and pleasure melting situations. This is the good part and then he got that one guy braun. Who just like. He's your go to guy. You really need one working unto you. That knows what they're doing right. Yeah because here's an irony to a certain degree as tyrian is that guy joffrey but is not recognized as such. This is a great little vision. You have now libby. Go make it work in the real world right sir. Ill pain has a serious case of what. I call muppet face. You know who. I'm talking about refresh man sir. Ellen pain okay. I think of the most mummy guy in the room with sandra. And he's not saying anything because his tongue down is he's he's like a spitting image bill. Yeah he looks like he should be feel cohen's video. Yeah i mean he's and he has like one note like he doesn't say anything but his face. It's like they needed an actor for the role they said. You have no lines because you have no tongue. And this guy's thinking well then should use my face to make this just as expressive as i can. He described nope scream with my face. Nope it's in your contract. You may only have one face. He goes into make up every day to make sure that they get that one phase right. It's just a mask. It's it's that phil collins artist. I wonder if they even needed an actor for that. Yeah i will say that. That's that was one of those moments right. Did feel like every time they went to him. I'm like is this this funny. He is the comic relief. Episode is on my rewatch here. I was thinking about servcies position because she really is sort of me. She's just so evil sabathia and yet which is interesting. Because there was there were these elements of humanization that they'd cert- like episodes prior and then and then you know she did the turn the last one with when We all thought that she had a. But then we kinda saw that. Okay she's back to being kinda gleefully in macabre and then she statistic. I sit there were. You've never been good with the word statistic unless you're trying to say the word sadistic that's true when a little drunk it's a lot worse and you're a lot more stubborn about your ability to set your insistent that you're misspeaking is right. Not many people know that about me. Steve and now a lot of people know that that's the goal she okay. Let's just put it this way. A board serves. He is very dangerous. Yes that's for. Sure but i think on rewatch. I saw her in a new light of thinking. You know this was sir sees idea to stockpile the wildfire right right. It was her idea from the beginning to use the wildfire to protect the city and tyrian swoops in and takes it over anterior. Gets to be the hero right. I mean well the thing is won't we don't know what was what was her plan him. She was crafty and actually might have burned the whole right she. She may have just a surreal in pain as soon as they breach the wall. Throw this at us. All we know we know that she had the going back to sort of yours. Ceo corporate middle-management concept like it's not uncommon for somebody higher up on the board or maybe it is a sea level. And when they're just like here's what i. What do you think about this in a wildfire. Now you guys figured out right. And and they pat themselves on the back and the no lose proposition. Right it succeeds. I gave you the tools if it doesn't succeed. Well these idiots canucks but now in this case. She didn't have that right. She just had the concept. And then terry moran. Yeah that's right. And she's kinda stewing in that powerlessness right so she had the idea and then it was. Someone swooped in took it away from her which is a good idea like maybe she would have blown up the whole city but even so that doesn't happen if she's born male right. She writes she's probably handed the king or whatever this point and so she's really she's really her feelings right now and so now she needs some sort of lesser creature to torture and so she chooses sounds and she chooses shea. Well it's about agency right and and that's something that she's been revealing in her conversations. That seemed almost human with sansa. Prior is the sense of like. Don't fall of anybody You're gonna you know it'll make you do foolish things and compromise and all that stuff and you sex you sex to your again just and and so. She's got all this but it's like. I said it's the idea of like look. You're you've you've given up all agency but for her that like presented in such a way. That isn't so much like a. What a virtual it is to serve. It's like this is what you're going to have to do. And it's going to suck and so in her situation she is like so it makes sense. She's she's not giving it up. She's not interested in giving it and she's willing to die. I mean she in fact she's like he's pretty arrested. This things just not gonna work. She always wants to die. Almost seemed to be a sense of this is my last go and it seemed like everybody in that room that we knew except with the exception of shea is like whatever it takes us to be over she is put in an impossible position and i think she's resolved that she's going to die and so she's just going to strap on drunk and there's no reason not to tell the truth about pretty much everything in her life to sonza right so she gets really vulnerable. In that moment she gets humanized. Tyrian has a couple nice little exchanges with bron. Worry says Qasem friend and bronze leg while they were france now well and there is an element of that. Too just like. I'm not sure we're gonna make it out like this is that impending doom is gonna do. It's best to bring out. Humanity may be lurking in some of these folks right. Well you kind of see the different personality types lead into a crisis and you kind of see that showcased in that first scene with braun and the hound ray almost fight. Yeah where the hound is sort of like. He's all business and really got just really just got one story. He's got one story and that's how everybody likes to kill. He's a killer everyone to know. He's a killer again. I know you just gave. The speech broke but not everyone has heard the speech yet. I get the sense that they have. I get the sense that this guy goes around town. Here we go. We're gonna hear about how much inks kill now. Let me guess. I do to read. Okay here we go. He's got to give the speech to every character or so. He has a scene. Where i i'm sorry. The fans are going to wanna know. Steve who would win in a fight between the hound and brahm. Well i would have said the hound. Before i saw him You know he got a little he he got shaking has kryptonite. He's got that one krypton. Yeah but braun doesn't know about the kryptonite is true. He doesn't know about it but the fact that it exists. Me don't know at this point. We don't think braun can do no wrong. Every he he's like he's got one hundred percent winning percentage when yan brown seems to be. He's he's craftier and more intelligent than i think his role would normally allow. He seems like he he would be able to figure out or at least ascertain that there is some kryptonite for the hound. I mean the how he'll doesn't value like in a second will he will cut you in half like and that's not i mean very literal. What is where's the fans areas. That are they split on this. I think it's one of the one of the favourite debates among the folks who take this too seriously. And i'm probably one of these god bless them. They are my tribe We we like to imagine who's who's gonna win. But we want to see the fight to the death between ned and jamie and we're a little disappointed when it doesn't play out right so you know there are gonna be people that say. Look the hounds z. Bounds going to beat anyone just because bigger bigger and stronger. The hound has another scene at the end with sonza and he offers to take her home and she turns him down even though it seems like she's got something of a realization that he's not all that dangerous is not as dangerous as he sees on. Jaffrey's more dangerous i would. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. So what do you think. What do you think about her decision not to go them. That was it. I'll be honest i want. I want vexed me a little bit. i mean i guess the thought is is that If if she leaves with. I mean the thing is is that she had an opportunity right him she could leave with the hound and say that she was taken but i wonder i'm one is. Is there enough ned in her. That feels like she can still that that she could still serve her family better in this capacity. I didn't i never considered that part of it. The the one thing that i thought was the when sir c lease for the throne room immediately. Sohn's starts playing the propaganda game. She tells all the women the room. Hey everything good news. The king is out you know. He's rallied. the troops everything in hand right. So she's just making stuff up right but she's doing in such a way that it's almost like she's playing the part. That certainly should have been playing all along right. And there's part of me that thinks she doesn't want to give this up. She kind of enjoys the idea being queen right and she leaves the hound. That's all over. Yeah i know this episode says a little bit. Let's say multiple personality because the when we first meet her she's really sort of showing up. Joffrey is a fool right right and sort of taunting him goading him to go to the vanguard and even when he calls her a stupid girl then she says i while you're right a. A amc but of course you're gonna be in the vanguard so she seems very savvy in that conversation and pretty bold about it. Yeah yeah and then. When she's sitting with sursee she could be like five years old with a question. She's asking and the demeanor that she's striking. I don't get the sense that she's sort of putting on a show for city. Yeah and that's why. I think we're the decision to not go with. The hound was all the more vaccine. Right concise you look at the earlier part. She seems to be goading joffrey to death. Yeah and that's great for everyone right. I mean it's it's especially great for her but then there's the question of like is it right like something. Let's say something happens in joffrey dies but sursee lives and status does not take over. What is she that. What's the hostage. She's she's purely purely that's her and that becomes her best case. Scenario probably is that she still holds. Value is valuable but not but not great. I mean i guess she's like a lot of thirteen year olds where like she is the child. She's still the child. She can pick up the doll that her dad gave her but at the same time she can sort of put on a a good front in acting adult when she had also been a little drunk. Yeah no kidding. Of course she's drunk and everyone thought about this. Yes totally drunk. That's another thing to consider right. I mean like like she's she's been being fed wine and lines from She's in the middle of one of the most probably tension filled situations that she's been in for a minute and and it's scary scariest guy he's ever met just happens to be hanging out in a room right instead of fighting the battle which is like year one of the bigger assets for this. And you're not here. Where my how are we getting out of here. Are you even my safest path earlier in the episode. She hears about these people that have tried to flee the and that ended up getting beheaded. Okay that's fair so she's thinking yeah you're gonna try to flee the city. I know what's going to happen. You're going to end up with your head on a spike and either all dire. I'll be a much worse position politically right. Yeah so now. We've got okay. So now we have taiwian comes in and saves the day so now i mean you've got this whole new set of complications. I mean especially for tyrian. The family dynamic which is already complex is even more so now right. 'cause i mean well the rifle handed back. Well not only that but the acting hand his face sliced right right. And it's not like thailand can say all right i'm going back out you know tyrian takeover. Yeah so there's is that element of it which is super complex. And you know. I mean everybody's chance for half man. He had a moment to moment. And how long does that moment. Last right i mean. Does that moment like i mean i started thinking like okay so there. You know tyrians not going to argue with his father over who should be the hand or not I would think but there may be potential for sowing the seeds of some sort of a revolt One you know he wants people over big time right. I mean i can not only did. He have the strategy to use the wildfire but He he stepped up when when the king retreated and he knew about the secret tunnel. Yeah about the secret tunnels he got. He took it to the face right. I mean there's something to be said for that right. Like i mean he. Not only yeah. He led the troops. He struck the first blow. They were chanting. Half man was not a vain effort by any stretch. I mean he could have easily. Died on the battlefields. Put himself in a position to be killed on the battlefield while leading and found into that. That's right that's right and it was almost like there's no one left so it's like the really dark moment. New soldiers are just waiting for their doom. Right right and sure the lancasters come riding then and they do their magic but without even at least this battle. That tehran has Engineer the wall is probably breached. And then they're coming in on the back end and now they're at a disadvantage so in thailand comes in well i the first person that comes in his loris right right and we have not seen these two together before and i think that this is supposed to be shorthand for little finger was able to broker this alliance between the tyrrell's and the esters i like the there was a little historical morsel. The hound is afraid of fire. Right he comes back in and tyrian kind of chides him and says. Can i get you some iced milk with some raspberries. That's an sort of a callback to niro. Who was the first person at least in the western world to invent ice cream in now this had been done in in china beforehand but Near us to have ice brought down from the mountains and he used to like like cool milk and have it with lake fruits and whatnot. Uc also did some horrible stuff. But but but let me come on ice cream where we will forgive almost anything else you've done right. You're like say the problematic person who gave us this delicious street so right exactly so. Yeah i thought it was. It seemed a little out of place. he's offering to my screen. Do you can have ice cream. Yeah kelly did a season finale. And what would you like to see wrapped up in the season. Finale what are you. Invested in beyond what we saw in this episode. I feel i already talked about. You know what's going to happen with the whole taiwian tyrian dynamic right right i. Yeah so that part. I'm very intrigued by very intrigued by what's going to happen to stay on. It's a plotline that. I didn't think i was going to get as into as i have. Well he's painted himself into a corner up there and it's kinda thinking how is he going to get out of this or is he going to get out right and not only that but like what is what is going to be the cost of him trying to get out of it if it doesn't get out of it in addition that because we didn't let's assume tyrian doesn't move i'm gonna go ahead and this Because we didn't get a major death it almost feels like a lot has got to be one come has got to be something like that. That's how i. That's how i feel because you don't cliff hang on the second to last episode that tyrians died. That doesn't make sense to me to me. The tyrian is here. Isn't he is right up there with or is that brandon ricky loss. So we're gonna see more of what happens with which means of course we have to see more of brennan walnuts right i. I'm looking forward to the brian. Jamia aryeh picture exchange That roadshows seems important to me. I'm kind of curious to see what ends up happening with the aria road. Show 'cause she's her hot pie because that's just that just happened. And and their whole mission is a little different now early whether they know it or not and of course we have to see what happens with the warlocks. Carbon danny's dragon. Yeah i mean the doesn't either of us are are that enamored with this is definitely one of those. Like i'm gonna have to trust you because because every time it's era go it's like it's like it's like this is a episode. Okay that absolutely is an original tank and people been talking to this show or over a decade. No one has equated. Danny who's arguably one of the two main characters of the show. Your no one has associated who chachi before this podcast. I'm telling you there's millions of people trying to go with hot tanks support for this. Podcast comes from progressive. Saving money on your car. Insurance is easy with progressive. It's an average savings of seven hundred ninety six dollars for customers who switch and save in fact. Customers can qualify for an average of six discounts on their auto policy with progressive including discounts. Just for starting a quote online or owning multiple vehicles get your quote online and progressive dot com and see how much you could be saving national average annual car insurance savings new customer survey who save with progressive in twenty nineteen discounts varying or not available in all states and situations. This episode is brought to you by comcast because of covid nineteen internet. Traffic has spiked but comcast is prepared. They've created a powerful network with one simple purpose to keep customers connected since two thousand seventeen comcast has invested twelve billion dollars to grow and evolve a smart reliable network and now with many of us working learning and entertaining at home their coverage has helped millions of people stay connected when they need it most learn more at comcast dot com slash network for this week's bird's eye view. I'd like to go a little bit meadow with you and talk about this podcast so season two of electric book lewis to close. Next week we'll be chapter eighteen. And then after that. Stephen i will do a wrap podcast related to season two of the hbo out. So i'm thinking hard about the shape of electric buca lou going forward and i'd love to hear from you. I have three kind of convoluted questions to ask i. What did you like most about this. Podcast do you tune in for guest like linguist. David peterson in other words. Like the super nerd professor types. Or do you like the superfan types like kim renfro or iran. Alexis next week. I'll have my sister on. She's definitely superman category. I like to include non professors from time to time. Because i think that sometimes the is a little bit better on the other hand. I've really enjoyed my conversations with blockers medieval us and linguists etc. So which do you prefer do you. You want to hear more super nerd professor types or superfan types. Second question. steve osburn as you know has become an integral part of the show only portion. The idea here was to allow fans to experience the show again in a new way but also to find what's most funny about each episode. The show conversations. I thought would be a way to keep the show. Only folks listening. My question is this. How many of you tune. In for the steve osborne segment only i specifically curious about how many listeners are skipping the main interview to get to the steve segment so that would be really helpful for me to know and then finally my suspicion is that the more i bring on repeat guests the more i can build a sense of familiarity but peppering in new blood from time to time. Seems like a good idea too. So here's my third question. Would you prefer more. Repeat guests or more new guess or balanced. Both you can send your answers to book and bald move dot com and i am always grateful for the feedback As previously mentioned. We've got a new after show for watching dead podcast where you can join our conversation in real time every tuesday at one. Pm eastern will be hosting conversation at stereo dot com slash bald mu. And you can join in. It's easy just download the absolutely free app it stereo dot com slash bald move. And you're ready to go. Stereo is the app for live social conversations and we want to talk directly with you our listeners. You can join our show. Ask any question you want suggests topics share your opinions your thoughts. We want to hear everything. Download it now and join us live this week at stereo dot com slash move. Be sure to follow us. Get notified the minute. Our show start once again. Download the one hundred percent free app at stereo dot com slash bald move. Be sure to follow us and join us. Tuesday afternoon for our live feedback. Show on this week's episode of the walking dead. Here's a small sample of last week's show all right. Let's get to the next one is what's the best nut tapper attachment for aaron's arm socket. The giants spiked walker. I would wanna get tapped. The man's nuts. I would leave those nuts load with some motorized spinning contraption multiple taps in like flexible sort of Not quite ridley things but like a picture of spanned with like long strips of rubber thought. The end yeah spends like four thousand rpm right so the way i think about this if we go with neons wisdom about sport nut tapping you got big meaty fingers. I'm thinking like like teenage mutant. Ninja turtle fingers giant like permanent vulcan salute. I'm i'm doing this on the the livestream and it's all about the loose risk the the snapping wrist action so you build a mechanical teenage mutant ninja turtle finger giant lag. Just to joy rolls of quarters. Like all and aaron can like fold back against his wrists flats spring loaded. And then he comes. There's like a there's like a switch on the back of his so as soon as he makes and you go hi because trying to get the trying to get the button with the dick and do out but once you do that that spring low just goes right and those two big rolls of quarters just left and right nut devastation. Simultaneous nut devastation. And then you even have a dick move her the thing. That's we left and right to move account there's a cow catcher attachment on the wrist lifts and separates and then exposes the nuts to the massive massive trauma. That they're gonna get your think. That would be perfect. Somebody somebody that's got like some kind of a drafting boards sketched that out when we need them out of that. I want to see the three of you that it'd be the only thing that blacksmith could build out a blueprint about netapp's. Oh yeah all right next up on the point about the bottle of foods. I mean looking back on just like daryl and beth in the cabin. I mean those kind of episodes worked on.

caitlyn king varis rodrick cassel dr trip fuller gherman west rose john parentage rodley mr pistre Jim always john snow iran catlin joffrey luke paypal callan scotland brady anderson
Game of Thrones Season 8, Eps 1&2: "Winterfell," "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms"

Kotaku Splitscreen

1:22:22 hr | 2 years ago

Game of Thrones Season 8, Eps 1&2: "Winterfell," "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms"

"Welcome one and all the dragon dire wolf or an elephants to Kentucky split-screen special coverage of game of thrones season eight my name is Kirk Hamilton. And I'm joined as always by my co-host Jason schreier today. We'll be talking about the first two episodes of the final season of game of thrones episode one winter fell and episode to a night of the seven kingdoms will be recapping episodes every Monday from here on out starting with next week's episode three some notes before we get started. We will be discussing everything that's happened on both of these episodes as well as everything that's happened in the books, but we will not be discussing leaked spoilers or anything from the next time on teaser at the end of the episode. We'll start with episode one winter fell which had awkward diplomacy, heartwarming reunions and a long held secret finally revealed Jason schreier big picture. What did you think of the premier? Oh, man. First of all, I'm so glad that you and I are on the same page as far as next week on because there's nothing I hate more than reading a website like for example, the ringer dot com. A website live, and we'd every they always in their game of thrones coverage and other stuff for like an on the trailer. It said this, and I'm always like God damn it. I didn't want to know that. Because I hate those frigging trailers. As far as the episode. So I thought one was a little bit slow. I don't think I'm alone in that opinion. It felt like a lot of setup and that worried me because we don't really have time for setup at this point in the game of thrones. There are only six episodes in the season. And this was one of them, and we were taking a lot of prime real estate for just not a lot of things actually happening. And while it is cool to see all of these characters we've seen far apart for so long finally interacting and getting together in one place in winter fell in the place where we all started. It's it doesn't. I it seems like kind of a waste it. Feels like I'm worried that they're not going to wrap up as much as they should wrap up as a result of all of this. What did you think of it? Well, it's interesting. I kind of agree with that. And I also don't totally agree. I think that the first and second or sort of interesting matched pair actually kind of glad that you were on vacation. And we're. Going to recap them together. Partly because I think that too was much stronger than episode one. And they both did they both were kind of accomplishing the same thing. Where there wasn't a lot of action. Exactly, it was just a lot of media character stuff, and a lot of sort of reveling in the fact that these characters have been together for sixty seven episodes, and we've followed them through so much and getting them all together, there's surviving ones together, and basically one place. Let's us kind of just enjoy the fact of the all of their relationships and how rich in well-developed they've been. But there is a good way to do that in a less. Good way to do that. And I think the first episode was sort of more disappointing more consistently. There were definitely things that I liked that. We'll get to. But I think the second was much stronger while doing kind of the same thing. Like there wasn't a bunch of action. It was another episode of setup. But I thought that it did a much stronger job. Yeah. I should say. So when I talk about setup and action on actually not a big fan of the battles and the combat and the action that physics action. I think that maybe you're a bigger fan of the action. Sequences than you, let on I don't think so ranks hard home as one of their favorite episodes and one of my favorite. But yes, so I'm actually not a big fan of the actions. My favorite stuff, the reason, I watch and the reason I read game of thrones the reason that I locked onto it, however in years ago fifteen seventeen years ago, whatever was in two thousand stores came out is because of the politics, and I just love the mind games, and the king's landing Macintoshes, and Tyrian Lancaster's brilliant moves and my favorite thing. Just give people an idea of like how I think of the series, and what I love so much about it what my favorite chapter of all of the books is the one in clash of kings? Where Syrian Lancaster is making all these subtle plans to try to root out who the rat is who's who's in orange? Sir. And he has three different meetings with with grand Maistre pie, Sal and various and little finger. He tells them all different things, and he like counts in his head one two three. And that's my favorite thing in the book. And he eventually figures out that my mysel- is on who's been ratting out to see. So that kind of just like brilliant politics mechanisms that's why I watched the show, and that's why release books, and that's what's been lacking. For me recently. I found myself only like really looking forward to the C stuff because she's the only one still doing that. Well, everybody else is trying to fight this battle of good versus evil, which gets me to one of the points that I wanted to make and we'll get into actually recapping this episode in a second. But I just wanna talk big picture something that I said last time which was two years ago. It can't believe it's been two years since the last season. Thrones is one of the things that I've hated of this. Evolution of the show. Is that it's turned from this? Sorry. I liked it. Your like big picture. Okay. Here's what I hate. Yeah. Talk about things that I hate just for a minute before we get well, actually, and this point is going to end on an optimistic note. I just. What are the things I've made it as you know, as I've told you and told listeners is that it's turned from a show about a whole bunch of people who were doing what they have to do to survive and are just morally grey characters into a battle of good versus evil and the existence of the Nike and zombie. Army? Just creates this force that is like unambiguous in every way, and just smashes you over the head with comic book villain re. And that's a me is so uninteresting lame. And I just hate that that that conflict. I weigh prefer the conflicts between characters where you're kind of rooting for everyone. And you don't really know who you want to succeed, and they're all interesting and and doing things that are aren't one hundred percent good or a hundred percent evil. Right. And what I'm up to mystic about is that it seems like these two episodes, and now are have been setting up towards the battle that we're about to see this coming Sunday in three and what I'm hoping is that that battle is. And that's the battle of good versus evil, which leaves us with three more episodes to kind of sift through the remains and ghost. Back to king's landing and figure out who's like get back into the politics stuff. Like, I I pray. And I hope and I am just so optimistic that the Nike will just be done by episode three and we can get back to the good stuff. So I mean, I kind of don't I mean, these episodes to meet didn't feel like they were about that battle of good versus evil. They were about everything. But that which I liked about these two episodes. I mean, the battle of good versus evil is sort of the thing putting pressure on everybody to interact, but the character interactions were largely about obviously services dealing with her whole thing. But then it's also about John deniro's figuring their stuff out. It's about various conflicts between you know. We'll get to in a second one recap the so actually I see these two words. Optimistically to only because they were about the characters and the characters are forced into this situation by the night king. But then I king was barely there. No one. They almost never even talk about him except his just this force. That's coming. Yes. So excited for is that conflict of Dan versus of Danny versus John and that was all being self after the battle with king. So I'm hopeful that like and the worst thing they could possibly do would be have the Nike like escape this battle or survive this battle, and then vezzano threat continues for the rest of the show like that would be the worst. The absolute best way that they could take this right now is have that I'll be done with and have the next three episodes be about what are John Danny going to do with themselves. How are they going to resolve this conflict that they suddenly face? What are all the characters is going to do with themselves and battle over the throne? And how are they gonna deal, sir? Seeing what's the what are what are how are we going to sort out the remainders of this alternate good versus evil, or that's what I want. Okay. So we're putting the end of the podcast at the beginning. Let's get into the nitty gritty picture. Let's begin at the beginning of winter fell. Which was not named. And none of these episodes are named in the HBO appar- Ivan think like on TV, you don't know what the episode is named when you begin it. You actually don't know this because you just came in watched them, but when you will watch. Yeah. Of course because you wash them days later, but when you go to watch it on Sunday night, you'll see that. It'll just be called game of thrones episodes seventy I guess, we'll be the next one. And they'll just say that for kind of a while because they're not releasing the names of the episodes. So we didn't know that this the second episode. It'd be called night of the seven kingdoms and presumably the next will be called maybe the battle of winter feller something, but we don't know that which is kind of fun. So we didn't even know this was called winter felon. It started, but it began with John John areas and their whole huge army arriving in winter fell which was a really direct echo of the first episode of game of thrones. There is a very wild Reddit thread, this is by now everybody knows this that there are million different ways that this episode directly and indirectly and subtly referenced the very first episode. Owed of the show, which I've actually watched fairly recently. So it was fun watching this. It'd be gins the same way with real professional arriving winter fil a little kid is running through the through the crowd. He climbs up on the trees. So that you can see them. It's all just very very similar. There are so many call outlines and and references which I'll get some thoughts on that overall a little maybe I'll get a little later. But basically, we've got John areas arriving John arriving back and winter fell basically as a king essentially, obviously, he's no longer the king in the north. But he is like in a row processional with a huge army, and sort of it's it's a cool representation of how far he's come. There's a couple little things in here. Great worm in the Sunday kind of looking at each other. And as these sort of racist, ask northerners, look at them sort of unbelieving Lee who are these dark skinned people, and they kind of give each other a look that sort of conveys a whole lot. There's there's some pageantry is sons agreed to them. She says winter fellas yours, which is the very same thing. Another echo of the firm. Episode and of like, okay. Oh my God. You guys we don't have time for this shit. And kind of just tells everybody that what happened in the season seven finale, so pretty pretty fun setup. The dragons fly overhead everybody's excited. There's sort of a lot of of other little things that happen in this in the scene, but generally a solid setup and kind of a cool a cool callback. I got a little tired of the callback. I think. In this episode. Yeah, I think I think that this episode was so clever about all that there's so many times this episode where things are directly referencing the the series premiere that I it almost like didn't make enough room for the good character stuff that they got into when they kind of put that away a little bit. And it was like it was very clever showy, but it's at times. I was like, okay. I get it. We've come a long way. You know, a lot is changed. We're still in winter fell. Ha, it's very it's very interesting. I don't know. 'cause you notice all that stuff when you were watching. Yeah. I had actually seen people talking about the parallels before I watched the episode. But so so I was a little bit teen advice. Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't I thought it was just all very slow moving, and I was just hoping it would get to some some media conflict. And and we'll get a little bit of that. Let's keep going through the recap because some of this stuff. I think is is is the stuff that I noticed more. Oh, well, yeah. We will. We will. We will proceed. So John Santa into nearest sort of have a meeting with everybody. This is one of these meetings. They like to do and winter fell where everybody just gets up and yells at different people. And usually they yell at John leeann more Mont gets is always the highlight of she's always the highlight knew she was going to do something and she gets up, and she kind of calls John out for doing the one thing that she kind of asked him not to do. It didn't want him to do. She's kind of been his backer. This whole time. He's thinking north. She's the one who went after everybody for not backing him up when he needed them and kind of rallied a lot of support for him. And now she's pretty pissed that he bent the knee to someone else that they sent him away a king. And she's kind of asks when are you now, even are you? What are you Lord? No, you're not you're not a king. You're not a or you just some guy. Like what what we do? We make of you. And meanwhile, there's some sort of Sanza managing things little Lord umber shows up, and he needs more wagons for his men, and then is sent off to last heart to get them. They kind of help him out. Surely that will go fine. Nothing bad's, whatever. Into child show. So so he heads off Tyrian kind of inexplicably gets up and gives a speech about how Searcy is gonna come back them up and everybody kind of booze off stage, and it's very embarrassing show for Tyrian who's kind of just not really been doing so hot lately. And doesn't do. Well sons. I think it was in this and might have been in the earlier seen signs as sort of the only person thinking about the logistics of it, all she's clearly she engineers or having a chilly first meeting, and she says, okay, cool. You have dragons you have this huge army, but I've only rationed food for our people. Are we going to feed them? How is this going to work? That was I've seen people say that was really responsible of Santa and a lot of this episode is doing work toward kind of underlining the sons is actually pretty smart, and like pretty together and real survivor, which is true to an extent. But actually, I think that this question especially thinking about it in the context of the third that's coming. I mean, a whole lot of them are going to die, and they're not going to have to eat food. Right. It's like we're all coming up here to get killed by as so really need food for couple of days, really. That that could have been. Yes, sort of a reasonable if kind of dark answer, it's a good point. Yeah, they really are sitting up as lake saunas. The voice of reason among this crew of of morons. Yeah. Turning Tyrian into this guy who suddenly trusted sister. After everything he's been through just is such a desk destruction of his character and really is depressing. It's depressing to see what they've turned tearing into. None of it makes sense at all. I certainly by that he is mentally he is suffering from PTSD, and he is kind of like completely shook after killing his dad, and that's we saw them in the books as well. Just the his downward spiral after his patricide and leaving the country. But at this point, the fact that he trusts just because she told him that he had she had a baby. And therefore, she's changed is like absolutely makes no sense. And yeah, I don't buy it at all. And it's just a reminder of the worst thing they've ever done which is the plot where they went to kidnap. White Walker and bring it back to the less. These just the worst. Which is I feel like he could see him even sort of just making the deal with because what's the alternative, and we need to move this thing forward, and like we can kind of have some sort of peace. The fact that he got up in front of everybody, and sort of was like high all of us stark Bannerman, you know, a, well, sir, Selena stir is gonna come help us out like that. He would think that that was a good idea. Does feel like Tyrian is a more. He understands people better than that. It seemed like that was just really weird move for him. Yeah. We just booed off stage, and that, you know, which isn't appropriate reaction. I guess you could argue that if you buy the theory that he's in love with generis and that in the fine finale of season seven when he is that forlorn luck after he sees her sneak off to John's room if you think that he's like all because of that. And that's why he's not in his right mind. Maybe that helps explain it. I think that if they tried to introduce that now though, especially after we've seen one more episode. Yeah. After this like. They would just be too weird. They've done nothing to establish that. So I don't think that's the case. I think that he's he's slipping in his kind of damaged at this point. But still, you know, they're still kind of hope that the Tyrian is this great Kenny. But yeah. Show kind of seems like they can't make up their mind. Whether he's that because characters are kind of constantly berating him throughout this episode out the next one for for fucking up and making mistakes in idiot. So who knows so something I wanted to bring up is that in the books, it's all about I think the quote is bastards and broken things like like broken people and bastards in that and Georgia Martin has always written these great fantastic actors who are all subversions of expectations in some way. Like, the little girl turns into this acid, or or the Duar food turns out to be the savviest mind in the in the seven kingdoms or the bastard turns out to be the most noble of all I'm and something. I keep thinking about is how Jon snow isn't actually a bastard. And it turns out he is just a noble straight white hero. Who is just like every every other carrot, right? And Georgia are Martin and with the books of done. So well is taking those characters and either kill them off because they were dumb asses like Ned stark or. More made them suffer in some horror, horrendous way, the change character entirely like Jamie, Lancaster, who who's one of my favorite characters by far in both the show on the books because of the way he changes as a result of like his arrogance getting him to lose his hand to the point where he loses his hand. And this is of Lucien has fantastic and seeing John snow kind of all the other way where he goes from this bastard outcast to suddenly this this brooding dude turns out to not be Vassar and turns out to be this hero that everyone is pointing at as like the guy who came back to life. The prince who was promised all that stuff is making me think that like if if the show is going to go in a way that like is within the spirit of the books. They'll just kill it in the next episode. I feel like if the show is going to go the way that the show has been going over the past two seasons where it's more about fan service and giving the people what they want to see what they want to cheer for rather than what Georgia Dome the spirit of the world. And. Which shorter Martin is actually created. Then we'll see him just save the day once again, then like rule roll the realm again two things. Yeah. It's interesting. I think because some of it is a result of the sort of not great job that they've done developing. Jon snow the character despite the events that actually happened Jon snow being events that could lead to a very interesting character development. I mean, the guy has suffered. He is an interesting sort of savior. He's not a Knight in shining armor. He is much more of a sort of lost guy who lived a really rough life. He was fucking murdered by his own. And and to brought back to life horribly. There's sort of this lingering sense that dying and coming back fucked him up, but that didn't really happen. And I think that's sort of a failure. You know, I want to recommend this article that you recommended to me, and I'll just do it. Now. It's by Zach cram at the ringer. It's called the key to game of thrones eight isn't dragons or swords or white walkers or even incest its consequence, and it's all about consequences, and there's another really cool article that a friend of ours. Sentas a tour article. If it's about lady stone heart, and it it's all kind of part of the same analysis of the show, and the way that consequences changed sort of the thing you're talking about the way these characters have changed, and when it comes to John snow and ladies stone heart. So ladies stone hard in the books is basically Catlin stark back from the dead back from the dead wrong and really scary and fucked up, and there was all they're all these theories for a long time about whether ladies don't hurt would show up in the show, and she just never they cut her from the show. She'll be the end of season. The show you'll be like clicking bowl happens. And they and then ladies don't hurt rolls in and just kills both of this show ends. So the idea that if you do come back from the dead, which is like something for this show. I'm kind of paraphrasing the tour here we'll link to both of them and shuts is that if you bring someone back from the dead, that's like undoing the ultimate consequence of this show has and it really is dark and weird ladies is not Catlin stark back from the dead. She's like this kind of horrible. Vengeance. Demon basically that doesn't doesn't talk. Yeah. Right. And the idea of that makes sense in this world of consequence which is something that the ring article is about is that like the consequence of bringing back from the dead should be like, it's not what you wanted. You know, it's like pet cemetery style. You can't bring someone back from the dead. They're not gonna come back. Okay. But John did come back from the dead, basically. Okay. Or we haven't really gotten a clear sense that he's not. Okay. He's kinda just himself and some of that is Harrington's performance, which is just always been a little bit mobile. Yeah. And so it's hard to tell exactly. And so he could even be that if John doesn't die. And in the end is the prince who was promised win. This happens in the books if the book. Does a better job of him dying and coming back and actually illustrating the cost of that. And doing it in the way that the books would I can see the same series of events working really, well, just based on the execution. So we'll see I don't know. Maybe they'll do it. And it'll seem hokey even though it was just down to how they pulled it off. Yeah. So let's let's keep moving. There's kind of just a lot of tension between all these different relationships sons and Denise are clearly kind of eyeballing daggers at one of their dinners is only line of diplomacy. Right. Is that joke about dragons the eat whenever they want. And it's like, okay, you're bad ass. Like, maybe you want to make these people like you and Sonya isn't exactly welcoming either which is seems a little beneath her. I think she would be smarter than that understand that it's a smart. It's a good thing that if she trusts John she should just go with us and like make it all go with a little bit more smoothly. But there's just a lot of tension there that is a little worrying and kinda gets moved out before the battle starts, but doesn't exactly we get a few more scenes and. This recap is a little paraphrase since we have to get through both episodes. But there's a scene where Tiriac Tyrian Davos and varies all talk, and they kind of agree that John generis should get married, which seems like an obvious thing that a lot of people could come up with these sort of three clever guys scenes, but at the same time, it's like, yeah. I mean, everyone. Also various man, he doesn't get a lot to do in these in these two. This is the only seen. I could really remember him being in the scene at the beginning. Where Tyrian is making fun of him for being a eunuch, which has also just kind of really like they're still just ribbing each other for this at the scene at each other on the same stuff. Yeah. Well, that's part of what I'm talking about with the show losing the plot. As far as the politicking. Because if you remember virus back in season one when our stumbles upon virus and Lyria was the guy who helped generis get to east Esso's in the first place and gave her the drags everything. That all of deniers storyline is started by a plot from various and Aligarh. It's kinda like, well, it's like reflective of how the characters were the schemers have a lot less to do sort of reflective of the bitches lie. I don't. Yeah. Which is why I'm kind of lost the shell. Like, I wish there was more scheming. I missed the skeeving. Right. It's funny. They're scheming is to come up with a super obvious, right? And John snow to get married. It's like, okay. Good plan guys. Yeah. And then the show just like okay, anyway, time for a huge writing sequence which happens shortly after this John generis get on their dragons, and do the how to dragging thing are actually the thing that how to train your dragon did way better, you know? So they write off on a romantic dragon adventure. They go have sex under a waterfall this scene as whatever as. Yeah. So the point that I wanted to wait for this to bring up to your point about John being just a wooden actor is also Clark also extremely wooden actress and the two of them have zero chemistry. I talked about this last season. Now, it was just tough to watch the two of them together because they just don't have good chops. They do think that it is helped by the fact that they are aunt and nephew. Maybe that's why they don't have a lot of sexually as well. So maybe one now that they know it after season two, maybe the wooden like the octopus and the tension between the two of them, more understandable. But but them that scene with them by the waterfall is just so tough to watch because there's more bad performances of. Yeah. I mean, I think that's one of the big fundamental flaws of the show is that they just did not do a great job of casting some of those key roles as specially in contracts to like Tyrian, Peter Dinka, choose incredible and Dabo's. And so many of the characters are really good Arjan Sanford, both just knock it out of the park every time their screen and for the two key roles. Danny and John to be just like such a like, so many notches below their co-stars is just disappointing. And really I heard I can't remember where I heard this that Richard Madden who played Robb stark was up for the role of John snow, and I have never thought of him. I just saw him. Robb stark. But then I watched that show bodyguard that was on Netflix. And he's incredible in it. He's a really good actor. And it's kind of like what if they'd maybe? Yeah. Oh, yeah. But you know, what if that maybe he would have been it wouldn't have worked for other reasons? But we've got the Jon snow and his nearest Gary. And that we've got so hey agree that their chemistry is great. I think the interesting thing about this scene is just that John rides a dragon for the first time, which is something that only target can do engineers kinda doesn't bat an eye at it. And there's just sort of not the kind of indicate through some subtle like acting like she he flies Ray all his dragon down. He kind of flies off on his own and just to size with going. And she kind of looks at him a little, you know, she kind of registers that that happened in a way that that would be very surprising to someone who had never seen anybody else. Right. A dragon Ville only to dragon writers in the world. Right. And so that to me seems like I don't know maybe a missed opportunity for some sort of more subtle. For shouting. But I guess it's going to happen. So quickly after this that she's gonna find out that he is really a tar Garin that maybe it doesn't matter anyways. Yeah. This is corny and of all the scenes in this episode seemed like. The least necessary like I guess they wanted to do the dragons and how the CGI and whatever. But it's it's like, this is what we know people want people want to watch some Jonah, Danny writing dragons. And I mean, yeah, I think that's what the show is just become over the past couple of seasons. Yeah. It's funny because it's fan service. But which fans, I don't know. I think there are a lot of fans who are like, no, I wanna see weird long conversations about politics between people true. Core phantom of the fence. I if we saw entire king's landing those just like literally searched the interior plotting against each other. That would be fans for me. So yeah, right. There are a fair number of fans there. So it was service for other fans to describe. So a few other things that happened in this episode? I'm kind of jumping around a little bit. But one thing that I actually really liked is win deniro's goes with Giora to Sam to thank him for saving jurors life, and there's kind of this, you know, she she thinks him. She says, you're you know, you saved him, and nobody else would do it. And you did it juris clearly very psyched about that. But in the process of thanking him realizes that he his last name is Charlie. And completely, you know to her credit owns up to the fact that she roasted his father alive, and he's like, well, at least my brother is still alive, and she's like well, actually bad news instead to and I you know, they're both dead. And I thought the. John Bradley in the scene was really great. I think he's great. And he was super attached showing just how salmon react to his dick whole father and brother the news that they're dead. And that he's looking at the woman who killed them. But you know, they sucked. But at the same time, you know what? They were they were his family. So I thought this was a pretty pretty cool seeing that just sort of started one way, and then immediately turned dark and kind of had some real it felt like an actual consequence. We've been I think paid off in the next scene. I said the thing that I really love about the scene. Also is that it's planning the seeds for this idea that to narrow maybe isn't going to be good ruler. And like her inability to actually comfort Sam or show any sort of remorse or policy or empathy for how he was feeling and she just stares at him. I thought it was really interesting, and I was like because we've seen a little bit of like her inability to rule beckoned marine, and we got a glimpse of that in the show a few a few like a pictures of that in the show more of it in the books where she just like doesn't make the right decisions most of the time. And I think that is really interesting and just watching her really struggle to be leaders really interesting to me. Yeah. I think that that's definitely one of the through lines of. These two episodes is not just people questioning whether deniro is actually the right ruler. But sort of demonstrating that maybe she really isn't which it's always seemed like over time, you know, people say, oh, but is she really is she a cocker or is she a ruler. And the answer is on it'll be fine. But then again, I don't know watching this. It's becoming clear that maybe she won't be fine. Maybe she's not a great rule, and this whole thing we've been assuming that she's the one who's supposed to take over is. Maybe not the best way for everybody. If it goes that way. And this definitely seemed to deliberately underlying that. So toward the end of the sewed, this kind of fuel SAM's distrust of generis and brand tells Sam he's like, you need to go tell John the truth, which this has been pointed out by many people the fact that brand is in such a hurry. And that the end of last season was Branston. We must waste no time. We need to tell John the truth about who he is as soon as possible. And then they kind of let this whole episode co by without just blurting it out and telling him is a little bit contrived. And but Sam he's sends Sam down because brand has to meet an old friend. I'm waiting for an old friend something like that. And Sam has done into the crypt to find John neds grave. Our nets, you know, memorial sort of statue. And he tells them send them back to NFL. So. Yeah, this is great. Yes. So does actually which I wonder if that will be. Yeah. We'll get there. So he he, you know, there is a really cool callback here. So anyway, Sam tells John the truth who really is and John realizes shit. It is true. You know, they they kind of I think John kind of knows it's true in his heart. And I would imagine for him riding a dragon, maybe unlocked something inside of him to which they didn't really show us, but we can sort of seem that. And it kind of you know, Sam tells him one callback to the first episode that I really really like that someone pointed out in that Reddit thread that linked to is that John said to I'm sorry Ned said to John before he left the next time. I see you. I'll tell you the truth about your mother. And then Sam tells John while net is looking on the statue was looking on pretty awesome. That's pretty clever and the final shot of this episode is of course, a hooded, but still very handsome Jimmy Bannister arriving in winter fell sort of low key taking off his hood turning around. And then there's brand just fucking staring at him. And a couple of things that happen is we should let's talk about that stuff. The rest of the winter fell things before we go to king's landing and a couple of things that happen. So that storyline like this sort of this setup of this conflict the conflict between John deniro's the list getting everybody to winter fell sort of. I don't know what do you make of it? Yeah. I mean, it's it's like I said before I'm like the stuff where it's conflict between characters and I'm looking forward to all of the good versus evil nonsense being over it is cool to see everyone in the same place. Like don't get me wrong. After just seeing everyone flung from the winds, and it is the parallels between this and the pilot are there to in the pilot was the last time we saw all of these characters in one place. And now we're seeing that cat like we haven't seen all of the Starks together with with Tyrian and Jamie and everybody else like you, really. Feels like it's it's paralleling that in an interesting way. And yeah, I mean slow episode. I wish more at happened. I wish more interesting. Interesting developments at happen. But it feels like an really, yeah. It feels like this. And the next episode could have kind of in condensed and combined. It felt like there was a lot of stuff that was in the hundred percent necessary. But I will say like after season seven's, just stop terrible pacing. And like one thing like like moving bouncing from country to country or city to city area areas across the country without even taking a second to breathe. It was nice to just like slow down a little bit and have just two characters in a room talking to each other, which the show has been good at I have also found that the writing has not been that great like a couple of points, where someone would say something, and I would just think in my head all the next line is going to be this because it was just so predictable. And it would be that. Which is never a good sign when you know the next line. That's going. Happen might just be a sign that you should go, right? Game of thrones. No, it's signing your that. You're up to the level of finally. But that's like I kept thinking like this is like a first draft of of script that I wouldn't want to edit and polish and pass on. So that kind of gets to the thing where I think like the the parallels. The first episode we're so thickly done and probably difficult to work in that the script was definitely contoured around them. And as a result. I think maybe the actual moment to moment I along with sometimes a little like suffered a little bit because they were kind of forcing things into a certain scene. So that it would have some kind of an echo, and sometimes that was really cool. And sometimes it had it had the intended effect of making you reflect on how far we've come. But other times, it just sort of seemed like they felt like they needed to do a scene here because there was a scene there in the first episode. So they could have maybe done half as much of that. So the couple more things happen on this. We'll go through quickly. We do get some stuff with Searcy in king's landing. She's hanging out with your own who's still the worst. And that you know has an. You're on has brought her the golden company. They did not bring any elephants much tutor. Just okay. So I wrote down at my notes here. So he's like she's talking to Harry, stricklin leader company, and she's like elephants, and he's like, no, I wrote down in my notes elephants. Knowing of the budget for. Like, we can barely afford the dire. Wolf we can't die rose. There are no more Daryl's. It's really ridiculous. John's best friend is like disappear from the show. He turns up, and he turns up in episode two. I will shot of him normal dog. I've quick on the golden company, by the way for people. Who haven't read the books are just watching the show the golden company have this history of just being like this incredible elite mercenary group that was exiled from the from west rows? And basically the backstory of them involves like a tar Garin rebellion and them being on the on the on the wrong side on the losing side of of a war and the books actually, there's a whole plot involving someone who either is or is claiming to be a gone Garin the child of radar and his wife Ella Martell who was supposedly killed by by the Lancaster, invasion, Robert's rebellion. And so there's a whole question of his real Teigen Teheran. And all that stuff has been cut from the show because they didn't need another story line in the show or too much resolve. But the golden company is a very different context within the. Yeah, they kind of just show up here. And I think if you're just watching the show, you wouldn't fully I mean, I guess all you really need to know is that he now had that as a big army, especially because because if you think about it her the majority of the Lancasters were killed by scenarios last season, right in the battle of the battle of the wagons are still like that earning battle of that one super six g I shot where the dragon lit everything. That's what I think of that is the battle of the battle were Jamie should have died. Yes. The Jamie and explicitly fell into sort of survived and was fine. Yes. So a couple of things happen here. She sleeps with your own presumably because she's bored and like likes the ego boost your on is just totally out to lunch. He thinks he's gonna get her pregnant and like become king or something. That's not happening. She also dispatches Bron to kill Tyrian and g. Amy with presumably I guess this is the same crossbow the Tyrian used to kill Taiwian the Suming. That's what it was and Brown seem sort of conflicted about it. But just sets out to do it love. I love that. I love that. That's that's sort of this is headed and that's fascinating to see. Yeah. I wonder I wonder same. Yeah. It's an interesting wrinkle anything that turns these characters against one another. I love that. And by the way, do you think we'll ever see Robin Aaron from the from the area? I wonder I I don't know. I'd be fine with never seeing him again thinking about catches who are still alive. Played major roles in the story, but are just MIA. Now. The funny thing is I bet the actor who plays him is like six feet tall completely. That's the problem. He pulled it pull the brand. Yeah. So and then another thing that happens near king's landing. Anyways, is that theon shows up kind of quickly and unceremoniously rescues Yara from your flagship. And they set out the whole thing happens very quickly. I guess we assumed it would happen. The didn't die at the you know, when we last saw him, it's sort of. Okay. With me. I think that they kind of cut out the whole thing where he finds people fight with him. Then goes and rescues her because well, so at the at the end you like got a bunch of people together, and they started he did. Okay. I'm forgot what happened was. So he he and Yarra were attacked by urine. He jumped off a boat and just like bail to save himself. And then he came back in his big moment was like getting a bunch of his fellow. That's right. They all went to rescue. Yeah. Got it. Okay. So there was that was not cut out. I had forgotten it, and it was like actually if they didn't show that. Yeah. But that they did. But it didn't move very quickly. Like, yes, it was all very kinda just needed to they needed to get it done with and Yarra says she's going to go back and retake pike theon Asif. He can go fight alongside the winner fell. She says, yes, he heads out one other scene that we got a couple of reunions to go over the scene was at last hearth where a little little Lord has gone with his wagons. And we realized that Dolores Ed torment giant Spain and barracked Darrien Earle still alive despite being at ease watched by the wall fell. So I guess they just made it out another thing. They didn't really need to show us because I think we assume those guys probably weren't gonna die off camera. They come in. And they find little Lord numbers stapled to the wall. And now a white screaming in sort of similar gross mural body parts to the one that we saw in the first episode, and he got another parallel to the series premiere the kids start screaming. Him on fire. And yeah that happens. Yeah. So I think I think something interesting that happened was that earlier they had said at winter fell. There were like Lord numbers staying last her. He's not gonna come help. And I guess turned out that it was because he was dead, man. The numbers really kinda gonna never fully came through. They're always kind of a problem. So a couple of things that happened on this episode. There are a few reunions that we didn't mention the one that I liked the most was John Arias reunion. It's just because we've been waiting essentially the entire show for that to happen. It was quick. But not too quick. They talked about their swords. There's a little bittersweet note where John asks if Arias had to use needle and she says once or twice, and it's kind of like reflective of just how different stay both are really like how much has changed because these characters may be more than well. Everybody's changed a lot. I don't wanna making comparisons. But they have changed L lot John. And are you have been through so much and become such different people? But this is love each other. And their relationship is, you know, it's a it's a lovely relationship that I've that I've always liked despite the fact that they really only had one episode where they were together. And also in the scene in a thing that I thought was cool as aria really backs up. Sounds to John says San's as the smartest person I know which felt to me like a little bit of a response to that. Dumb ass stuff with the fake out of aria and sons of kind of not liking each other in the last season. And then just finally they're like, okay. This is just stupid list has been be on the same page because they should be, and you know, that shouldn't have happened and our should've realized that really early on. But hey, we're there now buying a couple of other reunions are in the hounds kind of cold kind of brief that's brand for them. REM Genry have some some romantic sort of sexual attention happening. Which is I wrote in the notes this makes sense because Gary is smoking hot. So true Henry is very attractive, man. And aria clearly concede that she has him to. She gives them the blueprints for weapon for him to make her interesting. Another interesting throwback pathway is that in the pilot if I remember correctly, rob RAFI and says to Ned stark, I have a son you have a daughter. Let's get him hitch. And he was talking about science and Joffrey. But hey, are you and Ganji yet another one that's true? That's funny. And the last reunion that we have is to you. And and sons who get to just sort of they have a nice little moment. Because you know, they were he was cool to her when she was in a really bad situation. He he kind of says, you know, left me in the lurch there when the Jeffrey died, and you just bailed, and she's like, I don't know whatever to fucking do. Yeah. Yeah. Also have a choice. She was write little fingers mechanisms or just like pulling her along. Yeah. By the way, it's a shame. The little finger isn't around anymore. I miss him. I think he could have. Played an interesting role in the the shape. Obviously, I I think that his moment had come and gone. I was at this point. There was nowhere left for conniving. And obviously shitty to everybody. Stick around. So yeah, I just hope that he had grander plans in mind than just like like going from one thing to another like bouncing from one city to another and and like China get just that exactly was that really what it was in the end that he loved Catlin. She just wanted to marry her daughter, and it's like her, and it was just kind of creepy dude bullshit. It was a little finger. How the media fallen? That's pretty much episode one. Let's keep moving. Yeah. Ground thought just big picture. Real quick was just much better than a one in that the scenes are much better. Just the it was it's got more like when I think about the season in the coming months and years, I will think of more of the memorable moments came in episode two for sure I won't remember much of one. But I will totally remember some of the stuff that we're going to get into. Yeah. I agree. I thought it was actually really good. I liked this episode overall. They're a couple of things that I didn't I guess, but it just thought it was better. And it was I think for the reason I was saying episode one had all this weird furniture moving and kind of logistical late wrangling to do an episode one. And it wasn't just that they were setting up the battle. Because like I said episode did the same thing, it was even more explicitly, you know, mostly about the night before the battle. But it didn't have to concern itself with quite as much sort of peace moving and logistical stuff. And so they were more free to just have character moments, which I thought were really good. So let's go we're gonna go just totally. In order. This entire episode takes place at winter fall, by the way before we get into the episode. What do you think of the new opening credits? I don't know. I didn't really pay attention the being. And it's really. Yeah. Have you not noticed? Oh, what do you like fast words? What are you doing? They're super interesting. You should watch them closely. Our they've totally changed them. They're completely different. There's like a now a model of the wall broken, and it goes through that. And then it spends all of its time either in winter fell or in king's landing, and it goes down inside of the castle's Bill the castles out, Susan tear built and reconstructed in that same kinda engines format. There's also there's all kinds of stuff. I don't even know what it is. But now, the, you know, the the spinning McCall it wheel sort of. Yeah, there's a name for it. And forgetting what it is. I'm sure people tell me on Twitter because everybody knows. But that thing now has these like metal, you know, engravings the side that reflect things that have actually happened over the course of the series of used to be it would reflect the ancient houses in the sort of events from before. Now, it's revealing I think there's one guy standing with the severed head of dire wolf and the dire wolves had has been cut off. And there's sort of these these things that kind of show that the events of the show have now become casting. Legend themselves. Interesting home, the same stories that people will tell which is a running theme in the books that I like to the idea that they're always telling stories, but they are also living through a story that will one day be. And I've seen that brand mentions as the three eyed raven jobs record history and actually one of the one of the fan theories that's been floating around forever. Is that Sam? Well, tar Lee is the author of these books of a game of thrones books, which doesn't really make sense because so much of it is showing characters thoughts and stuff, but but still the interest the idea, of course, is is when the explored right? So let's get into episode to a night of the seven kingdoms we opened on winter fell. Because of course, we do everything in this episode explain winter fill with Jamie, Lancaster, who has arrived sort of tried to arrive nondescript that did not work because pan was waiting for him. And Jamie is brought before Santa denarius and everybody in that same hall where they bring people to yell at them and or kill little finger, and basically argue, and there's a kind of debate here about what to do with Jamie, Lancaster, deniro's kind of interestingly, I thought her unexpectedly is seems very vengeful against Jaime. Lancaster, she's sort. Putting saying will you killed my father and your bad? And I've wanted revenge on you forever. And so why shouldn't just kill you? And I didn't think that made a ton of sense because deniro has in the past articulated that she doesn't think her father was great, and that she wants to be a different kind of ruler. And that he was kind of a monster. So I don't know I can. Yeah. But whatever no big deal. I can understand why people would want to kill Jamie, Lancaster. Yeah. As a flooring like tension lists scene because we know that they're going to find. Although it was gonna be if they just fucking murder. That'd be unexpected. But it was cool to see Brienne get up and be like look this. This man saved me. And I trust him with my life, and which to get at the consequence thing, there's kind of two interesting consequences in the scene one of which was explored in one of which was deliberately left unexplored. The unexplored one is that brand says to Javy the things we do for love. And we learn later that brand has not told anybody that Jamie was the one who threw out the window in paralyzed him. And that is a consequence that Jamie would definitely suffer for if someone new, but because brand understands that he needs to give it to himself. He doesn't where we also get the payoff for the good thing that Jamie did when Jamie starts growing person. Which is you know, he he worked with Brienne he kind of rescued her. He gave for the sword. He sent her to protect to protect sounds. And that totally finally comes back as a good consequence for him and saves his life is Bryn steps up for the I I really liked that. And I thought we've been waiting for that to happen. This whole time like ever since that happened. I thought it was pretty cool to see to see it go. So I do wonder Jamie says very deliberately that he doesn't regret anything. He did anyone apologize. But then a little bit later. He does apologize to brand brand is like now don't worry about it. You were protecting your family. But I do wonder if Jamie regrets that one thing like of all the things he did. I think that he does. And I think that that is kind of interesting inversion, we'll get to that seen in a second. I guess but. Yeah that because he says brand spits back at him the same line. He says you were protecting your family. What Jamie says to them in the beginning? I did it all for my family and do it again where when he says it back to him. It's a little hollower because he's like, yeah. You through a kid out of a window was that really something that you need. Well, then again brand has gone to this point where he has no emotions or feelings. So maybe he's just repeating that. Because he literally doesn't think anything about. Yeah. Yeah. The way so brands, Jamie. I forget the guy's name. But he is a fantastic actor, I think brand less so, but I think brand just turning into this character that has no emotions is is kind of an interesting way to hide his lack of jobs that they've made them into the people seem to like or at least he's memorable Nicolas Coster. He is phenomenal. He is. He's great. Yeah. One of my favorite characters for sure I wish we got more of Tyrian and Jamie together. But let's get to that. Let's keep let's keep going shopping. So after this meeting dinner yells Tyrian, again Portier says, you know, calls him out again for trusting see he's sort of feels like he is sort of fucked which just sets up the later seen. So we can just keep moving. We get in with Gerry and aria flirting some more. And this is kind of where Genry learns are really is now because he didn't know before. And she's like I you make weapon yet, and he's sort of laughs. It was. It's not really clear what it is. Is it? I think it's well he gives it to her or no not yet. I guess he's not taking your seriously. We'll get to it. We'll talk about it when he gives a so he's doesn't seem to be understanding that she is. Now, the most deadly woman in the seven kingdoms. So she kind of demonstrates it by throwing daggers with scary, accuracy and saying creepy things about you know, the many faced God. And he kind of seems creeped out then we get Jamie and brand for the scene we were discussing earlier, which I talked about Jamie kind of apologizes to brand brand. Makes it clear that he hasn't told anybody that Jamie was the one to throw out because he says, basically, we need you for this fight. And they would have totally killed you. If I told you that you did that which is very calculated and kind of reflective of how brand doesn't feel things normally like care about vengeance. Or anything has kind of longer different view. And then we get a scene with Tyrian Jamie, which I really liked. I agree. I wish it had gone on longer. But I, you know, at this point I wish every scene between these characters that haven't had the chance to talk. Just go on longer and really just a cool seen Jamie is sort of asking tear in the same question is the one she relieved the one to rule us interior says, yes, I'm sure she's the one. Meanwhile, they talk about Searcy a little bit Tyrian acids Searcy really pregnant like is any of that of what she said to meet true. And Jamie says that he thinks that she is she's telling the truth and -tarian kind of points out to Jamie. What something that feels very true? Which is you always knew who she was always knew that. She was this fucked up person Mosser, and you you loved her anyway, and they Jamie's just sort of accepts that he just here's Tyrian say that and it just feels like that's kind of a truth that the Jamie always knew what he was getting into. And and who he really was and at the end of the scene is just sort of like, I think we're fucked. We're probably both gonna die here. Which is a recurring thing that then gets flipped interestingly. But yeah, it was a good scene. I think it's pretty clear that those two are not going to die here. And we could kind of death prediction list later. Yeah. I feel like what if they both die and then brunch shows up and finds their devices like, oh, well, okay. The crush takes evidence. So he could bring them back and go get stuff from searching have to do that. Yeah. I think that I think I just like seeing the two of them. I just think they're both great actors. They have the chemistry that many of the other pairings do not. And they're just great characters who have both changed so much and have been through Zuma so much. It's just nice to see them together just like going back and forth, and and talking about being Lancaster like growing up Lancaster. And they've always had a relationship that I've just really liked the way that the the Tyrian loves, Jamie. Even though Jamie hasn't always been there for him in the way, the Jamie was so this perfect version of the air to the Lancasters where Tyrian was so, you know, hated by his father for being, you know, adore in for being for being such a whatever disappointment in his father's eyes. Despite being this brilliant guy who was like a good person. And the way the genial is kind of bacteria up and stood up for him. I don't know. I like their imagined backstory as much as I like the story that we've seen between them. So it's nice to see them. Yeah. And they haven't satirical, hasn't really mentioned Tisha. His wife his former wife in the show. It's a lot more experience. He's talked about it. But he has as much as it is in the books, but that is really a pivotal part of his relationship with Jamie. I forget the exact way that they put it in the show, but in the books like Jamie plays a key role in like playing this awful prank on Tyrian. So that's kind of like that underlying tension that even though Jamie is one of the only people in the seven kingdoms who doesn't treat them like Edouard for unlike like normal person and his brother they're still that horrible thing in their past. That's always been really interesting to see as well. But yeah, just to really good characters. And I'm looking forward to see like how their relationship is resolved. Another thing is that in the books. There's this prediction that search gets from a witch which says that Vallone coir her her brother is going to kill her. And the one of the big running questions is because many of the other predictions of come true is going to be Jamie. Eighteen million or is it going to be something else entirely? So I think that's a good ongoing questions. She thinks it's -tarian. So, of course, the big question big. It's going to be Jayme. Yeah. Agree. So we got a brief scene with Giora and deniro's, which is nice just because they've always had their relationship. I've never been a huge fan. But I know I know they're out there. So I'm sure that seeing more joy in the I mean, those people happy Giora kind of explains her, you know, it broke my heart when you made Tyrian your hand that I couldn't be your hand. And she's like, dude, I thought I was ever gonna see you again. I thought you were dead. What he was you want me to do? And but then he kind of he he's the prizes her by saying, but I know the Tyrian has made mistakes, but he is brilliant, and we really need him. So he kind of backs Tyrian in an important way at a time. When it seemed like denarius was sort of considering making him not hand anymore or cutting ties with him. And it gives the sense that that was really like the joy really just came through for Tyrian in a major way. Which then, of course comes back a little bit later. He also gives her some very good advice, which is you need to go and meet with Sansa stark, and like frigging break the ice in have an actual conversation, which was very nice to hear somebody say that to one of these two women who really needed to get together and talk because they kinda like sounds kind of biff the introductions in the hospitality into narrow kind of like being good guest. And they both are clearly kind of side eyeing each other when they need to be working together here because come out in the whole point of this thing is that everybody needs to work together. So we get a nice scene with sounds engineers where they get to meet and talk. I have written in the notes. Here sounds is wearing seriously, the most fucking awesome looking armor. I've ever seen incredible. Because Sandra is wearing seriously than those fucking. She's worn before this is not new armor, man. It is the dope. Art Van is as good as like the fifth. She was wearing when she blew up the summer that you would pay for and destiny. Yeah. It's good. It's good armor. So I feel like the armor on fantasy shows is a good sort of measure of how high the budget is. And they're clearly paying their armor designers quite a bit. To come up with super dope. She looks great. They they talk about John deniro's disguise. I liked this conversation because sun's kinda starts from her perspective saying we'll John win. And then he fell in love with you. And he bent the Neo because he loves you. And he's doing this whole thing for love. And I'm just worried that you know, he's not seeing clearly and then deniro's will from my point of view. I was kind of safe in in my kingdom in my keep with my army, and I was already to do my thing. And now here I am in the fucking frozen. And I brought my army this whole way like in diverted everything to come fight for him, basically. So who's the one who changed their whole thing for love, which is kind of by the way, because like if you didn't do that, then vezzano's would just destroy you? Eventually, sure sure, but she was also convinced by John I think there's something to the argument only in pointing out that Sonya is sort of was not viewing it from Al perspectives. And they kind of both. It's a nice scene. I guess because they both come to understand the other person's perspective even while. Like, you said, of course, they all they'll have a vested interest in not being killed by ambi-. So that does make sense. So then, unfortunately, Sanga sort of like, okay, we're buddies. Now, what about the north after after we win because we're not going to go into to southern ruler. And deniro's clearly not happy about that. Which is again, I think another little underlining of the way the deniro's can't let go of this idea of just ruling everything and how this is all her birth rate because to me like whatever keep the north wants the north or right like let them do their own thing. Jesus already this whole thing. It keeps being a problem. Right. Just let them be their own kingdom and have peace with them and be cool with them. I mean, especially if you marry John sort of there's a way to just like have this alliance. Great. You don't need to beat me. You could be the ruler of the six kingdoms or like make up a new seventh kingdom. Things that says gonna end by like someone destroying the iron throne and being like, a new generation will be like all the kingdom split up or something like that. It would be sweet would be if like they have to fall back to the throne room, and then they have to take the iron throne apart and made out. Valerian feel actually I just made that prediction now. No, I'm saying in this hypothetical. Amazing. That'd be fucking. We'll see. We'll see that happens. But I feel like denarius should just let this one go. Yeah. Then we get another great seen after that is when theon arrives and pretty pretty brief scene. But he kneels generis. He's like, I'm totally on board. Here just wanna fight. If you'll have me I need to clearly is trying to make up yet again as he has been for so long to make for selling them out and sounds just sees him. And she embraces him, and it's really a wonderful scene. I loved the scene just because she knows more than anybody. What he's been through. And what they they both went through so much with Ramsay Bolton. And there's just this kind of immediate understanding, I think they both play the scene beautifully. And I just I really loved it. I thought it was it was wonderful. I'm so glad you're here. Like fuck. Yes. Yup. Thank you for coming. Yeah. Greats theon theon another great performance. Great actor agrees the aunt and just his Lucien from like this cocky, headstrong kid who portrays his his. Foster family to try to impress his dad to like just the things he's been through. I think he might be the characters change the most really both physically physically and emotionally and changed a lot. I think of him now as the guy who killed Jon wicks dog and then really regretted killing on wicks, Doug. But I guess always beat the great joy to be. So we got a scene with David with DeVos. I wanna Davis. I almost wrote David I think in my notes, you know, David, David, David onion and Gilly are so devas and Gilead or walking the grounds is the first time we've seen her in this in this season. And there's like a little girl who wants to fight, and they tell her, oh, you'll be needed in the crypts to protect people because you're such a fighter. So they're kinda lying, but I actually think that maybe she will be needed in the crypts as this is. I I don't know if this is the first time they mentioned that they're sending women children and people who can't fight to the crypts to be safe. But here's a thought off the top of my head is that maybe when the guy that you're fighting against can raise the dead too. Fight for him. It is not a great idea to send everybody to the Crips. What do you think about that? I wonder if they're just thinking like either the catchers haven't given any thought which is very stupid, or they're just thinking that all these bodies have disintegrated to the point where that that can't happen, right? I mean, there are some like lower questions there can the night king just raise any dead body does need to be someone that he recently killed. We're sort of unclear on that. But I swear to God if zombie net and Liana stark or sort of rampaging around winter fell in the next episode. I will I I'll either be really excited about that or really bummed out. And I guess we'll see we'll see allergy is lions, by the way that little girl. I mean, the whole the whole point of that was Davos just seeing Charene and just like having his kind of come to Jesus moment. Right because she looks like sharia scar on her face looks like her. And then that's a me signals like Dabo says art is over he's a dead, man. I think there are few people. And we can get to the predictions. Yeah. We'll we'll do a death death life poll that you can sell like it's very clear. This episode is basically, basically like, okay. Some of these arcs are still going and some of these. We are resolving right here. Yes. Both of these episodes. Are you can tell the they've waited certain characters than you can imagine. But then again, well, we'll get into it. Because who'd wait somebody that you want to get everything out of the way because you're gonna kill. Let's zip through these next because we're running. We'll we'll keep we'll keep going. We're gonna get there. So we got Barrick in Dolores and torment comeback. They tell everybody the making is coming torments know, brianna slur. Of course, we've got to keep that going because it's actually pretty cute. Let me get John. And we got a big military meeting. John goes over their strategy. There's a lot here that sort of interesting. We get brand explaining what what the Nike wants. And what the three driven is which is essentially the memory of all of human experience. So he's basically it's a backup tape drive all of human history and the Nike wants to kill him. Because as Sam says, that's what death is forgetting being forgotten which I haven't thought too deeply about. It. Sounds good. So maybe that is what is interesting. It's kind of a cool ongoing fem- of the show is like people's legacies. And and then being remembers we tell right. So their plan. They make a classic plunder of laying out with their plan is on the show to us. So that we know. No, which means that it probably won't go according to plan, but their plan is to put brand next to the heart tree and winner fell to lure him there and then to kill him. So it has army falls logistically, totally good plan things the plane, then everybody would make because you know, that if you kill a white Walker all of its whites fall, otherwise they're just totally fucked, and he's gonna keep raising the people that they've killed as he kills them. Army he'd seen bigger question. So I remember there was that one episode where they're like four of the white walkers is just is the night king the ruler of all of them or is he just one of the four. There's a way that he makes white walkers. Right. I think we learned that where they sacrifice the baby's, right. The Wall Street's new white walkers. So I believe the he is the ruler. And they are the so if he dies all every single zombie and the white walkers on the whites all I'm not sure about you know, we know that if one balls all of his armies that it made fall, but we don't know that about the night king or not be really great, really. I mean once again, I am just praying. So. Hard. I'm really hoping beyond hope that like this episode is the end of the night king Amazon is and from now on it's just back to the good stuff. I just really hope that's the case. So I'm gonna keep cranking along Tyrian really wants to fight narrows changes his mind in a way that initially seems like she's being mean to him again. But then says you could die, and we need you. We need you live your wife needs you live, son. I need you alive in tears, like, call me son, one more time, and that's not of thrones. Let's hamilton. So that's not actually what happened. But it's the same thing that you're Washington says to Alexander Hamilton in Hamilton, anyways, basically deniro says Tyrian, you're too smart. We need you after the war. And so you need to stay alive. So you're going to be done in the crypts to whenever something's going to happen in the crypts. No, Shirley, not. And then at the end of this sort of workouts in tries to talk to John, but John is just sort of like what what didn't hear you. Sorry, gotta go, and he leaves we get a scene between grey worm Masan where they are smart enough to realize that these racist northerners are never going to like them and dumb enough to make a plan for. After the war to run away together and be happy, which just means they're probably going to die or one of them was going to die, which is too bad. Because I like those too. I'm rooting for him. But I don't know. I don't know. The first today guarantee that'll really bummed me out. We gotta shot of John standing on the ramparts and there's ghost for two seconds. And can't believe. He exists. He's apparently just been around this whole time. He's been just sort of, you know, cruising around the biggest show in the world wouldn't have to worry about like production costs of dire. Wolf by. Apparently, they had to do the huge dragon writing sequence. That was just right portent. Yeah. I think we're gonna get some faction in the next though. I mean Mira at the very least we're going to get some quality Marya Numeiri is gonna show up. Okay. Then we got this great very bio where it's time for it to become a bio game for the next twenty minutes, and Jamie, interior or sort of sitting by the fire. They're talking yet again about how weird it is. They're here defending winter. And they're probably gonna die. Brennan Padre come in. And Davos comes in. You know, I think I skipped a scene earlier. I don't know where it is. I should just mention it because I really liked it. And it's the scene I did skip it. We're Jamie comes out and finds brand Potter training people. And it's a really nice scene where he kind of thinks her and says, she's like what are you doing? Why aren't you insulting me? And he's like I just wanna I wanna fight under you if you'll. And she doesn't even know what to say just didn't wanna gloss over that too much because I actually it was yet another scene in this episode that I really liked so anyway, back to the present interior. Jane, you're drinking Brandon Padraig come in Davos comes in torment comes in there hanging out, and there's a lot of funny interactions as they initially ran isn't going to drink. But then they're going to drink and Padraig is going to have a half a glass, materialism, ahold glass, all kind of just talking as a fun woman you expected iron bowl to come out and be like exactly of for for everyone to visas sort of goofing around. There's a then we kind of this is sort of the whole I this whole sequence. I just really loved everybody. They know the battle is coming to them really quickly, and they're all kind of dealing with it in their own ways. Aria has a little bit of time talking to the hound on the ramparts she's kind of saying, look, you're so self interested. If you ever fought for anyone else, he's aware that he's changed. And he knows there was the scene where you know, Ian, McShane showed up, and he kind of learned to be a better person get into it. And just points out. You know, I fought to protect you barrack turns up and he's like reenergize. Together in areas. Like fuck you guys goes lame. I'm leaving. And and leaves. She comes and finds Gandhari she's practicing with her bow. And he gives her the weapon he made. So the weapon I believe is similar to the weapon that the way fused that she fought again sort of a staff staff with two dragging glass bleeds at the end. So what those are called I plan video games that you'd think I would I would remember there's a word for it that kind of a weapon like a double bladed staff, but I think she's to Darth maul weapon. Right. Right, basically. So I think she's going to be wrecking shit with that. And then he tells her, you know, they're kind of just talking he tells her that he's Robert breath bastard, he tells the story of sort of she starts asking him about his sexual experience. He talks about the red woman how that was kind of his first sexual experience. Basically was this weird seduction and then violation by her. But then he's been with girls since then. And she kind of says, we'll will you be with me because I wanna know what it's like before I die, and it's actually a really sweet scene and they also little uncomfortable because it's hard not to think of aria as a little girl. Yeah. Like is. He how old is she even at this point. Yeah. I know. But it they they think they handled it pretty well considering I mean, I was I'm with you. It was a different kind of sex scene. But it was it was a nice scene between two characters that lane. So I'll give it to. It's also it's a world in which women do not often get the opportunity to like set their own path of sexual likening. I liked her line of I'm not taking your pants on for you. I'm not the reality. Yourselves. Yeah. Those goods so. Yeah. No, it was mixed feelings about that one. But yeah, it is cool. Also that to me seems like our is doomed like her arc is another one that is just kind of been through it all and she's the point where I think she's dead. Don't know if I agree or not because they're still Numeiri to to contend with. And I don't think going back. I think that one shot we got of her like in the woods with our other wolves was we'll. We'll be sorely disappointed. If that's the case so moving on fireside parties still going there sort of talking a great line. Now, we're Tyrian goes against his previous spate Eliza. And just says, well, I mean, we might live. You know? I don't know like we were all still alive. It's pretty incredible kind of people on this road. Keep saying, well, it's really amazing that I've lived this long Jesus survived that survived. That's pretty incredible. It's like, I'm the main character of TV shows. I wasn't supposed to die until now. But then we got maybe the best moment of this whole episode. Which is when it comes. It comes up brianna is not actually a night because women can't be nights. And everyone says fucking serious that's ridiculous. And Jamie realizes that one of the bylines in the night rulebook says that any night can night another person. And so we just gets up and says, hey, come over here. I'm going you right now. And he does he nights her brand of tar of the seven of the night of the seven kingdoms title of the episode, and she stands, and everyone applause, and she smiles, and it's literally just the best thing that ever happens. And I love it. And she's still, but yes hostile. I guess we'll see probably all these people do. We got a couple only a couple more than the Sepah said we get lady Mormon enjoy Mormon have their kind of first interaction. She really wants to fight she suited up for armor. And yet again, someone has to tell a child or someone who's just like not really ready to go fight zombies. Look you can't do that yet. What was that? I don't think there is a really resolution whether she's gonna it seemed to me as though the resolution was that she will not find gravity. You're right that it wasn't super clear, and they talk a little bit. And she just basically, you know, as much as he was sort of cast out and sent to the wall. And you know, our what he wasn't at the while he was cast out and exiled from his family. She basically says I wish you well. I wish you good fortune. Cousin and he says the same to her. And then as jurors walking Sam turns up, and this kind of this question of who is going to get hurt Spain sands families Valerian steel sword. Turns out the answer is juror Mormon is going to get it. And Sam says to him your father was awesome. He saved my life. He is a great, man. And I feel that you're the. One who should wheel this weapon? Yeah. A little bit strange because John snow has his father's sword. Which really by birth rates should be going to Giora. So it's kind of like a weird weird dynamic. There would be almost more poetic if if Giora got that sort of San and then John SAM's, but all of John's action figures have that sort and just change the swords now, very true action figures. What are you going to do their work this way Sam ends the scene by saying a hope we win kind of one Lii which I enjoy the Sam is such a character. He is he's great really well done. So then there's a nice scene at the back of the wind party were Padres. Sings this is there in full bio were mode at this point. I felt like I was watching bio aware cut scene. Yeah. And he's English and had a scene that was based on. Yeah. If you did all of your if you did all of your character, storylines, you get together, and you have you play a game of cards sealer like my favorite scene. No. But they had seen was also a song and it cut between like all these. That's true. Those a little different that was like the we will heal and come together after the battle sung, so is kind of different places anyways. This isn't a video game episode. This is a game of said Padres sings Jenny's song, which I have seen because the internet is now a well tuned game of thrones explanation machine. There are just six thousand articles about Jenny song, which was a son that was referenced for single line in the books. But I know that it was a disea- hint. And a nod to the legend of the prince who was promised, and this whole theory of John's no is being the Princeton the song vice in fire and all of that. So it's a neat little way to tie back into the books. We also get a cool foreign the machine rendition of the song at the end of the episode. And then it's time, of course, for the final scene that Jonah's meet yet again in the crypts and John tells release cards on the table tells her who he really is. She's skeptical. He basically convinces her and she realizes wait a minute. That means that you have a claim on the their first reaction. Not like, oh my God. I'm rocking my nephew. And oh, God you or the true or an air, Gary in, you know, tar gains. They have different values. No. But I mean, I think that's a lot about Narus. And like who she is right now. And how she'll be is as a ruler. And oh, yeah. A lot of this kind of has is that her priority is always on absolute power, which is a problem. And of course, this is frustrating, but I guess necessary is that they're about to talk about it more. And we hear the horn blow three times walkers and the Nikes army is there, and it's time to go fight. So you have to put a pin in this extremely important govt and come back to assume that we both live at the end of this horrible. That's I mean, all the people were say like Jonah, Dan ear say, maybe I don't know there's zero percent chance and other those those two characters die. But yeah, do you wanna do you wanna go through some predictions cheddar? Try to figure out who's gonna die. Yes. So I wanted to really briefly just share theory that I have then I came up with talking to a couple of our friends this show. I don't know what's going to happen next up. So I didn't watch the next time on the bummer is I had this whole elaborate theory that next episode wouldn't even be the battle of winter fell. And instead we would cut to king's landing because notably in the setup to the battle. We did not see the night king. And we did not see his dragon. So we don't actually know we don't actually know where he is. So because of that I had this theory that like maybe he's going to go to king's landing and just kill everybody. Which I don't think I'm guessing I'm not the only one to make that prediction. But I think that maybe could still happen. But my outlandish prediction was that. We're gonna actually cut to king's landing in the whole next episode. We'll take place in king's landing on depict the Nike showing up with his dragging killing everybody raising the golden company has his own army and like marching north. And then episode will end with Bron arriving at winter fell at the same time as the end of this current episode. We. Just watch saying they're right behind me. There's another army, and then they're like fuck what the next episode is metal of winter. But I I'm guessing that I didn't watch the next time on. But I'm guessing that people already know that that's probably not the I don't. I don't I just got a hunch. That's not what's going to happen. Yeah. But it would I do think that maybe the night king is not going to show up for this fight. And that he might have your whole thing of them having this plan. They're going to be wary as he wears he either it'll be oh, he comes about with his dragon and starts owning shit or where is he Rosie cut to king's landing. And he's there because that would be a smart strategic ploy, and it would punish strategically from making the bad decision of keeping her army back from the main fight and weakening herself and weakening the allies. So something like that had just thing is my one, I might have might not. But I wanna get it on the record in case. It does say I hope that doesn't happen. Just because as I said before I just want us all to be over with. And I don't know if you how you feel the show or the value like I just I just love to be over with. I want the next three episodes after this one to be entirely about, sir. C versus like, John and Terry, John, and yeah. Deniro's, and like who's gonna who's gonna come out ahead of all I think that I hope that I think that's the case that the reason I'm kind of drawn to the army gets wiped out. And there's just one big fight thing that simplifies things and we don't need to do to big fighting, which would it be a little bit exhausting. I think if we do the battle of winter fell then whatever happens at the end happens. I'm kinda predicting they lose. I don't really think this is going to go very well for the good guys and a lot of people, and they're going to we're gonna lose winter fell. Everything's going to kind of go pear-shaped, and they're going to have to escape pike or something like that. But whatever happens then they're going to have to deal with either the night king somehow and Searcy, and we're gonna get multiple episodes that are just big battles. Which like like, you those aren't my favorite thing. I think they're really cool when they happen because we build to them, really. Well, the way that this episode did. But you know, I don't need to frigging episodes that are like massive battles between two like three separate armies, just you know, there's only like you said, there's only four episodes left. There's that much time. I'd much rather. They'd all gets resolved in the next episode. And we spend three maybe two and a half episodes just not even just of people working against one another, but sort of like, resolving the resolving everything and just giving us an epilogue giving us time to sort of just live in the end of this the new kingdom, and whatever happens out of this like we just need a lot of time. I mean, it's been seventy episodes of TV that's so much time and for it to end with a big battle. And then a really quick even one episode of epilogue would feel like I think they need as much time as they can get to just. Let us chill with the surviving characters. Find out what happens next because their their ways they could do that like the army doesn't necessarily have to fight. But anyway, let's up too much about like what is going to happen in all. I just wanted to real quick. Like death prediction for the next episode. So let me give you my couple of my predictions. I think DeVos is doomed. I think Brienne is doomed. I think Giora is probably doomed. I think grey worm is for sure doomed, I think Ganji or one of the two probably Ari. I feel like aria dying could be like the end of the episode just like the most heartbreaking moment. Just because it feels like you're arc is over. And she kind of doesn't really have a place in the post war world, given that she's a faceless woman at this point. But maybe not because there could always be more stuff with like Jack in Hagar coming back and somebody having a perfect assessments dragging last decker of leering steel dagger is a little bit. Like, maybe she'll be the one to kill them. I yeah. I I hear that keep going I think. Yeah. I think who else I think that Tyrian is safe. I think Danny's safe. Having Jamie is safe. I think John is safe think Sam saving saunas safe. Well, semi missing. I think brand could die and really think he's necessary anymore. I think Berek is pointless. Nobody would even care if he died. I think torment is doomed dollar says, whatever who cares. Maybe I think the hound will survive because I do think we are going to get some sort of resolution between the hounded his brother before it's all over. And I think the hound lives. I think we have to get that. I think. I think I don't know if I'm forgetting OD pod, I could see pod dying. I think pot is definitely I think I think this episode is going to have a pretty big hefty body count. Just because they need to like they need to just come out of this with like, all right? We only have a few people left who were actually explore for the for the rest of the show. I think going to diaper. Oh, yeah. Theon theon theon. Yes. Yes. Yes. Just because he betrayed brand. And no he's he's going to die. So. Yeah. And then my then my left field prediction is that, sir. Sealskins died. But yeah, I'm with all those I don't need to. We'll just I wrote those down. We'll see how truly all come. I think a couple interesting things that could come of that as if brand does die. There was that scene where he talked to Tyrian. Do you think Tyrian could become the three eyed raven? Yes ridiculous now. On scene. I've I haven't seen anything about this online. This is not something that I'm basing that on just in that one scene where you said, hey, tell me your story, I've got all all night, and then it just cuts away. And I thought what if Tyrian 'cause they kept being like, we need your mind. Yeah. After the war. I don't know. There was something in there that kind of like that I really liked that. Yeah. I think that's a really good prediction, and like you could see him like handing it over. And almost reminds me of like how in lost how Jack takes over and like hands. How Jacob is like passing his successor ship. Yeah. I can tell you that happening. And it's like Hurley, it's your turn. Could be the one thing that I will say is that I think there's an argument in favor of Dabo staying alive. Which is that the red woman Masandra is going to go back. She said she said like, I do I die in west rose. Even though she's an Esso's mate. Now is I will kill your. Yeah. I think it's it's the two of them. And like if she came back in he was dead. There wouldn't really be a foil for her to come back because actually I'm gonna add him to the late. Yeah. Yeah. I think Brienne Giora grey, worm gender your aria. Maybe are you? I don't know. I'm that's the I'm fifty fifty the restaurant kind of Baruch tournament. Dolorous said pod Fiamme. I think those are all pretty safe bets AB brand there will be at least one major like stark, death or someone. I think that could be brand Brienne could be the big emotional death of the end of the John John could legit die as well. Like, you said that would be wild. But that would be maybe in the spirit of the if if they kill one of the characters like Tyrian, Danny Jamie, John Santa Fe kill one of those characters that I am a hundred percent. Sure. We'll be safe. I will vary. Impress that the show. Actually, if they kill Johner, Danny? I will just say right now like I will have a whole new level of respect for this show. All right. Well, we're gonna find out. What happens we're going to be back on Monday recap that episode? I'm very excited. I'm excited to watch it man, it's game. And and this episode. Yeah. By the way, quite a few days. I'm gonna surprise Kirk right now and say that if you're out there, and you're listening to this and you want to convince Kirk and me to go back through every episode of game of thrones. And do like a podcast podcast recaps every single one Email split screen at Kentucky dot com, saying hey Kirk and Jason you guys should do this. Interest on board. Then you would be. But but I I love the idea of doing that. So if you're interested in that hit us up, so we'll be back next week. We'll be on there on Monday and every Monday from there on out until then Jason I will talk to you soon. May let your watch begin.

John John Tyrian Lancaster John deniro Jamie king Sam John snow Lancaster Jon snow Ned stark John Danny Reddit tar Lee Thrones Nike Jason schreier Catlin Lancaster Searcy
805 - The Bells

Game of Thrones The Podcast

2:29:58 hr | 2 years ago

805 - The Bells

"This podcast is sponsored by audible start listening with a thirty day audible trial and your first audiobook, plus to audible originals are free. Visit audible dot com slash GO, tea or text geo t to five hundred five hundred to begin this podcast is sponsored by Eero never think about WI fi. Get get one hundred dollars off the euro base unit in two beacons package and one year of euro. Plus, visit aero dot com slash GO, tea and at checkout, enter promo code geo t. Welcome to the game of thrones podcast. The officially unofficial podcast for game of thrones on HBO. I'm Jim it's the only podcast that the double d do not want you to hear. We're talking about season eight episode five titled the bells today. Erin, I. I've seen this episode more times than I care to count at this point. After seeing it numerous times, what's what's your opinion? I mean, so I'm not as angry as I was. I think I'm allowed to have emotional reaction. That's the instant take the take. And if you recall like when I talked about the first time, I came across a red wedding in the books, even though I was kinda Simi spoiled. That's the reason I started reading a book because because I got some jackass on read it spoiled me for the red wedding. I know the full details when I got to that point in the book, I had put the book down for like two weeks because I was so fucking piss and outraged by and I felt like everything tracked in retrospect, but that was just my emotional reaction. I'm a fan. I love the show. I love the characters and win one of the heroes turns into a super villain. I think I'm allowed to have an emotional reaction to that just purely off the bat, but I also think. That they didn't tell the story particularly. Well, I think that the stuff with Jamie is still beyond perplexing the me. And then you mix in a healthy dose of urine and some dodgy. Just just mechanics and tactics and stuff like that. It is. I'm still disappointed. I'm not like fired up and angry. We may get there by the end of the Sepah because talking about it. Start some shit up say I'm gonna try to be I'm going to try to be funnier and not as angry. But here's the thing. Like, I think a lot of people also came out as kind of crazy. I would say that our mailbag was roughly split and thirty three percent aisles. People that love this episode. Don't see any problems with it. And think that everyone does is a bunch of you know, the heads. I think there's about a solid third. People are like, yeah. I mean, I I don't it's fine. We're going to Danny. But I don't think they quite got there. I can see both sides. And then there's some people that just hate everything about it. And I if you're going to argue with us must be for myself, and you're gonna agree or disagree, Jim. But like at least argue at the point that I'm actually making. Yes, I did not see Danny turning to the darks. I didn't think that they would actually go through with that. It's not like, my my first choice of how this game of thrones should be resolved. But I'm open to like, I am open to the fact that this has been foreshadowed like they've done a good job of making it the where in hindsight Danes, turn to the dark side is kind of in is kinda Neville. But I do think they were missing piece or two. And I also think that the people that are saying that was completely perfectly foreshadowed are giving a lot of credence to the stuff that they kind of shoehorned in this season. Like, they're taking a lot of the things that she said and a lot of statements. She made and and the other thing is like I also just didn't by Dany and John's relationship falling apart, the trouble is and my girlfriend said this while we were watching it for the first time or at least her for the first time yesterday. She never bought, Danny. And John, right. Did they never sold the love story. Yeah. And so they couldn't sell the break-up story. Right, right. The true betrayal there. Yeah. So I agree with her. Yeah. So it's like, it's it's I'm not I'm not saying, I don't like this. Because I don't think that Danny's turned to the dark side is valid. I think that's very George Martin thing. Do it's just I don't think they told the job, particularly well and a whole lot of unforced errors along the way. And here's the thing. I think even the people that just love this episode unreserved reservedly have to admit that turning one of the top two heroes in the game into a villain is something that you have to really sit up, straight and dot all your eyes and cross all your TS to have the fan base to kind of go along with it. And have it feel like it set and not satisfying but inevitable in the same way, the red wedding is when we get to this point episode. I kind of want to compare contrast red wedding to this thing with Danny maybe will agree with me. Maybe people won't. But I don't know. I just. I hope to be a little bit less obnoxious discussing it. I guess because I'm trying to persuade people. You know, I think necessarily we we will be simply because we have more time like like time has tempered. My anger time has not tempered my opinion or my disappointment. And the other thing is like a lot of people's evidence that they cited to show that Danny is got this mad king mad Queen stuff. Inner is things that like I just fundamentally disagree with the the analysis in the context like she locked czar zahran's on duck sauce in vault. Well, yeah. But he did a real dirty, and like this story is full of heroes like beheading people that betray him. Like, this is a medieval, that's that's I mean, it's. Justice, right. Danny be lied to burnt all the mass slave masters and ask the poor, but they're fucking slate. I mean, they were lers SOC and Nazis. You're you can kill an unlimited amount of them. And no one feel sorry for them season for Dany, execute hundreds of MIR knees nobleman, some of whom later turned out to be innocent. I mean, there's lots of studies suggest between two and four percent of the people on death row are completely innocent. And yet every governor that I'm aware of in the union still supports capital punishment. I would be shocked to learn that the governor of Colorado raised the city to the ground full of innocent people like you can there are like and the thing is like she's never crossed a line of killing innocent people and to do so on the crux of getting everything that she wants just that's not the straw broke dragons back to me yet. It's not they didn't do a good. Job portraying Danny as as crazy. I think there's some people that the closest that people come to Marcus as trying to paint her as someone just very traumatized. And that she, but I think there's a lot of credence to Lynch the idea that she is power obsessed in some ways, I think like her her main focus while while it is also freeing slaves, and and breaking the wheel, and like all of the things that she says about, you know, breaker of chains the mini titles are positive, but the other thing she is she is power hungry. She believes that this is our destiny, right? And I agree with that. I simply don't think they told the story well enough, and I think that also you've got a little bit of problem that this show tends to want to hop on like modern since abilities, and then medieval sensibilities and a lot of what I feel like it's happening in his last season or to have justification is. We are going to just suddenly apply modern day since abilities like Danny's actions of. Pointed out to paint them the evil when you know like with the tar lease. Yeah. Like executing people by dragging with that any kind of due process or is shocking. But honestly, you also have the leader of an army, and you offer them a chance to surrender, and they don't take it. And they're executed. There are other solutions. They're less violent jerk, essentially, more diplomatically appropriate. Right. But she is a little a little, you know, right wrong in that case headed the car starts. He wasn't portrayed as crazy shirt. John beheaded Janus lint. He wasn't portrayed as crazy. Joe? John hung all of the black brothers. Who you know? We talked about in the episode like when he did that hung all the mutineers. It's not that the mutineers didn't have point. It's just that. Like, that's you win against the king, and you missed and like once you commit that level of treason, you're dead like, but now it's suddenly. We want to say that Danny's like, oh, this is just because Tyrian said it just because Barry various said it like that. This is. I mean, there's a whole lot of like them telling us that Danny was doing this, and we should feel the certain way. And I I just never was buying it. No. I mean, that's the problem the fundamental problem with John Danny's relationship, and how this betrayal. Yeah. Can't really be such because I never felt the connection. They never showed me the John Danny loved each other. If if banging on a boat equals love than the dude who put on the fire festival loves a lot of Instagram office like. Not love. Right. That is that is something that could be entirely separate from love. They never showed me those key things. Gee, whiz, betrayal happens. Amy bang brand. So I guess are true. Blue and love each other. Yeah. So what an asshole? Yeah. That's the thing. They never set those pieces up quite right for me to believe this. And unfortunately, in retrospect, I think that makes some of those episodes worse especially last episode because we were talking about, Jamie. And how you know, we we absolutely do not believe that he's returning to search everything in his art has been pointing towards redemption, everything has been pointing toward him going back to deal with this problem, which is, sir. See so and they subverted the expectations. But in in the process, they turn his Arkan to a circle. That does not make sense either. The other half of Jamie is very much for the innocence. And. And there's a line in this episode. This has no business being there, which will talk about on text of the dry spoiling her own. Yeah. But that's that's the problem is that they fundamentally, and this is why in the instant take, and I still believe this firmly. And I think it bears out in the reviews of this episode. This is the worst game of thrones episode, in my opinion, because it undercuts characters so viciously and we've never had this opportunity for an episode to let us down so so badly when now have eight years of history with these characters and to undercover all of that history to simply do something shocking is completely dissatisfying in the worst way possible. And that's just that's your subjective opinion true. But if you look rotten tomatoes, it is a forty nine percent. It is literally the worst rated episode of game thrived forever margin. And last episode was was with like fifty something fifty three. But those two are very far down the list. And like, I said, you know, I think the are gonna moderate somewhat like depending on how the next goes. Like, I think the other thing is. I think the first half is episode really worked for me. And I need to second half. If you buy the Danie just fucking went crazy works, actually, very beautifully. None of stuff. Jamie survey quite worked for me. I got a little bit of problems of aria. But like that's the thing is like the to have. I don't think connected you needed one more thing. And then like, I'm all on board. And again, you can disagree with us. But like there is I who knows the coin flip is still in the air about where to feign is gonna come down like a week from now a month from now a year from now ten years from now, but it feels like the preponderance of fans, they didn't they didn't do enough to tell the story and people are mad about it. And they're not mad in the same way. They're mad about the red wedding about a parade. Mid the red wedding makes perfect about Ned being beheaded about Oberlin getting his head smashed in. They're not upset in that way upset because. Unlike all those events didn't feel inevitable. No felt very short cutted. It felt like they simply wanted to be done with that's different from saying that it wasn't four because like foreshadowing development are different. You know, different distinct things. So we'll try to keep that in mind as we said a lot of bad about this episode, so far let me say some good because there is a lot to like about this episode outside of the characters in general. I think the acting is amazing even characters like Jamie, who I think are fundamentally undercut in this episode doing a credible job portraying the emotions that they want them to portray. And I'll say that like, I think I mean, I don't know because I'm guessing people's motivations which is dangerous. But at least I'm going to try I think that a lot of people saying that this worked for them are saying that like all of the just amazing filmmaking and all levels. Did enough to just just just the win over because it damn near that. Does it for me? Like, I don't think that Jamie, and sir see went out in a way that I think honors their character arcs, but they're last seen is pretty fucking just standalone beautiful. I don't think that like Danny's fall youthful, but so heartless because yeah, they didn't make any sense to me. I I don't think that's beautiful landing necessarily followed. But it was executed gorgeous. And there's a lot of really powerful points about what does the people and and also. Now I've seen a couple of times there. Ain't nothing wrong with gain bowl. Now. This is the gain this clip gain bowl is as good as any we could possibly hope for this is lawless. It's a sign. It's the most satisfying thing in the episode simply because everything about the character lead here everything tracks. Yeah. And it's what we in. It's it's I mean, and it's not necessarily what I think people wanted because like what I wanted was the hound to win. And then finally find peace or like to be left in a point where he kinda wonders now what kind of like, I guess nego Montag from Princess bride is like I've been individuals game. Now, I don't know what hap- maybe some incident suggest piracy, maybe he can be the new Lord of the iron islands, but like. It wasn't necessarily the ending. How I thought the gain bowl would go. But holy shit. There's nothing I can't argue with a thing about how the executed. Yeah. I mean, the cool thing about it is maybe it's not the ending for the hound the you wanted, but I think it's the ending that the hound wanted for the hound an ROY to very things that he wants most in his life are to kill the mountain into die because he doesn't see himself having a place in the world. After that you'll that he discovered along the way which is saving aria sharpish. Yeah. The fourth. But that was a great beat for his character for sure I thought so. Yeah. Those moments are excellent. I think there's excellent stuff between Tyrian in various Tyrian, Jamie. All those moments hit really well, emotionally. I thought actually Amelia Clark who have been critical sometimes with these very strong emotions did their damned this to sell a person just having a psychotic break over nothing. Especially when you think of that performance in a giant green box with no other actor with or writing a green mechanical bowl. That's impressive. The acting is great. Yeah. The music. I mean, how can you take anything away from her? He's he's incredible. He's done some of the best work in. I wanted to say television scores, but I'm gonna say scores period since John Williams like he is redefining generation of music on film. And this episode is no exception. I think every every single person this affects team deserves an award. Yeah. And like in the battle of winter fell. There was no dense fog was. But it worked it was lit and like s in like, the exit nighttime execution seen various was beautifully and amazingly, and like I just felt like the use of light and dark with so much better than this episode because they didn't have to trog shroud. Everything with fog like when it was routed, a fog was for a particular purpose, and it lasts just long enough for accomplish that purpose it's tough because the whole the whole reason that was happening about or went winter is so this night king denied the early area aerial superiority which would toasted him right because if nothing else this this episode shows just how on stoppable these dragons are when they're allowed to just uncork. Yeah. And then the final thing I want to give it up for is the makeup department. I can't tell you. How amazing are is face. By the end of this thing. Look, I mean. People are making big deal about the pale horse and the writer death, and like, I the the envisioning of that particular. Idea is just perfect the the attention to detail like the way that the blood streaks cross her face sideways because she was laying on her side. And how the the dust covers the rest of it. And she almost looks. I mean, she does look otherworldly this whole landscape looks other worldly and she matches, and it's amazing like all of the battle sequences were done. So well, so much I've some I've I've I've seen so many fucking battles. I've seen so many medieval battles. But this one managed to show me a couple of things I had never seen before the the gore when it first starts I've never seen a more gruesome depiction of sore battle. Yeah. And made perfect sense. Like when when somebody puts a sword through. Yeah. It's you know, it's not going to stop at your neck. It might it might actually go a foot into and take out half your body. Like, this is the force of these things, and that's butchery butchery. Yeah. It's amazing amazing from. From a visual effects. I, and I I wish I was on the same page is everyone because like I get it. If you can get over the hurdle. If you buy Danny's fall than this. I see this is a best episode. Although I do think that even if you buy that there's other problems and some of it are just like, oh, yeah. But but if you can get out of this whole season and going back to last season. Yeah. And retroactively, I think it makes us things more glaring. But yeah, there's a lot to like about this episode. However, I think it's marred entirely by some some really just selling short in the writing sure. We've talked for very long time. So we get into the recap. We should. Yes. Okay. Before we get into the episode proper got a little bit of housekeeping to do tomorrow in the bald new TV feed. We're doing a standalone review the second episode of Scher noble, which if you thought this episode is disaster. Let me tell you you've got it's got nothing on a nuclear reactor cooking off. So so check out the ball TV feed. You can find that on any podcast app. Just searching bald new TV I declare hashtag fan. Bankruptcy. Still in the Mertz door emerged up dot com. It's not too late. I hear not too late. Claire bankruptcy. And and save the season for the last episode wins day were deploying our Ponente super serious film fest. Fantasy addition as we discussed the movie Excalibur, there's an enhanced podcasts at YouTube dot com slash bald move. There is a live watch for club members. And if you subscribe to the movies feed, the bald movies feed, you can get the podcast, and you want to do that because we're also going to be reviewing John wick three next week as well para bellum, the final chapter into John wick saga tomorrow and twitch dot TV slash bald move sesame are going to be co op ING if you can call it that some Mario world three D A next Tuesday. Something fun for game of thrones fans, Jim ni- immediately after recording the final game of thrones podcast are going to be getting on twitch to play some. Of this browser name the game. It's a browser based game of thrones game. Winter's coming winter is coming Remus round at that for a couple of hours. And then we'll also be debuting. The we did as a longtime ago, but it's was a club feature. This is going to be available for everybody. We played through all of the telltale game of thrones. And had a hell of a lot of fun doing it. We play his bad guy. Forrester? We we really try to run house forced her into the ground and pretty much managed to do. So God's turns that calm or having a. Not sure how we feel about this episode sale. Both volumes are twenty five percent off. You can go to God's at turns that com to get the links for those also don't forget, we got a free preview chapter that you can peruse at your leisure pin. Dash y dot com. We're out of this house. No pins. But we still have stair would the brands face on. We're would pin. It's very cool. Very amel. Very penny at Pindad, Schwab dot com. And finally Friday for bald new TV we've got just a bevy of new shows. We're going to be covering. So again, you want you want to check that out. That's it at bald move dot com. Okay. We start off with various writing a letter detailing John's claim to the throne one of his spies walks in and tells him that the soldiers are watching her, and she's very nervous and. There's there's an interesting thread here in the scene where if you didn't notice it seems like they're trying to poison Danny. I thought that like they when I watched this episode. I thought like I'm not sure if they gave do Justice and verses in very desperate position. But now I've seen a couple of times, it seems obvious various was pulling every fucking stop. He he had found little birds. He was actively trying to poison her. If. Let's lay out the case. There's there's this girl walks in and she's. She's being watched by the guards Varis says, you know, with great risk comes great reward. She's with that have to do with feeding the Queen Reid. Did it were. No, she's not eating anything. Right. We'll try again at supper exact a lot of veiling of the true intention here, which I think is various way, and it makes perfect sense in hindsight. So I like this. I like what they did with a lot more after the second and third and maybe fourth viewings. Yeah. So then various goes down to the beach. And he tells John Danny will make bad Queen and John is actually the better choice. Practically begs him to step up and be the king that the Rome needs and John refuses yet. I thought like in I like is pushing too hard. But like now that I properly understand that I seen. I think that this is just various full desperation like he tries the rental of power with John it just doesn't work like he is in a situation where. I think and you know, the episode prism. Correct. He sees varied worrisome and dangerous trends for Danny. But because there's also just as much evidence that she's the co savior of mankind people, especially John just isn't gonna wanna see you like John is not the guy who's going to soberly evaluate his claim to throne against his rival lover aunts claim and also her strange, but like again, all the stuff was understandable. Like nobody like it's something that maybe as worrisome, but you could always like, well, it's that like it was not like wow, Dany killed lots of innocent people for no justification. We should have seen her killing tens of thousands of people. I think the scene is even better than I I gave it credit for after watching a few times. I realized he's when he says this line this real to John about flipping a coin he's talking to a tar Garin. He's he's openly out there telling telling John, I know your secret John doesn't think that he could know his secret. He's tickling the dragon's tail here just g. Literally, I think literally he's tickling the dragon's stale. But it's just so much more delicious. When you think, oh, John Tarr, Gary, and he's talking about the madness of the tar Gary ins, he knows where John's coin has landed which is another tip off. Sure about the nurse. It's really good. Yeah. Yeah. But seeing all this happen Tyrian goes to Danny who's looking pretty bad. Having not eaten in a long time. Ginny Nicholson's work. She does. She did. Did you see she posted like a six minute video in the style of? Yeah. Like, a YouTube apology video where she was the, and I just wanna I wanna talk about all the stuff that's been going on. And it's really, but she does she's made up just like a woman on YouTube. That's that's that's fucked up and is trying to apologize desperate losing billions of fans day, and she's trying to polish for it. I everybody check check Nicholson's Janelle out. She's she's great. So Tyrian tells her that various has betrayed her which she didn't she didn't actually know. But she'd deuces how that happened, and Dan he's really pissed at Tyrians been spreading that secret. And this is great highly acclaimed. She's got she's got Tyrian dead the rights like she trust trust. Here news do Hertie work for. And also, you know, Santa was trying to do the work. We that's one of the things we've been lamenting not in a bad. The way, but like sands is trying to play this game. And it's it's it's feeding all Danny's worse. Her worst intentions, and our worst proclivities, and our worst fears, and it's unfortunate. But like all this stuff so far working really well for me. Yeah. I will say I'm a little disappointed retroactively and what they've done with Tyrian. Now various has gone. Yes. I don't think there's opportunity and now Danielle blown up kings. There's no opportunity here for Tyrian to eating himself to be Tyrian the Tyrian that we loved from seasons ago because he didn't even really engineer the bell rang. And now I mean Tyrian has done nothing but fuck up in the last three season. And he I was thinking back to it. He really hasn't done anything exciting or powerful or interesting since he tried to tried to negotiate a truce as we let a drag Astor's. He led the dragons out of the dungeon. Okay. And tried to negotiate a truce at the mass which just made him look like a fucking idiot for in front of Danny because Danny came back and quit. You know? Yeah. But I didn't end all that. But I think he was very. Smart, and what he was trying to understood the scenario, and that's what I always loved about Tyrian and have dragon mastery. Like he was doing the best. He could save her kingdom. And and yeah. So from that point on which that's late-season five early CS. Yes. He hasn't had a win a win. And all this loses are bound up with what looks like apparent loyalty to Lancaster's which after this episode. I got a few like the Tyrians more on team Lancaster than his team. Danny. Yeah, I'm struggling with that concept because viruses, so for the realm that I almost wonder if a little bit of that didn't rub off on Tyrian. And tearing is is yes. Leading escape, but also more importantly doing it for the people in king's landing. It's it's it's kind of a coin toss for me. I'm not sure where it comes down on severity. It's taken to the beach. And he's burned alive. We talked about his arrest. Okay. Because I really like the detail of taking office jewels. But I don't know why. So I think this is to tell the audience that he knows it's kind of like when in ocean's eleven Danny ocean gets like arrested. If he starts taking off, shoes and leg. Like like like, there's something here is like hand behind his head. Right. Like, he's like, yeah. It's like in the fifth element when Bruce will like the cops sweep into building. And he just gets against it and puts his hand onto circles. There's something like various ease. An insider like like this isn't like when the old Maistre whose name is slipping. My who's the old pie cell? So pile. He's those various knows the score. He's taken it. I'm not sure why he's doing this. But it feels like a guy who knows the score and knows the routine knows what's going to happen to him. And he's just preparing himself. Now, it's a nice touch before we move onto his his trial and conviction the next Trump Shen trial. Can we talk about what is the damage that he's done here because for the life of me, I don't know who he sending these obvious raven messages to I think. We're supposed to. Yeah. Like, I think that will be revealed next episode. And I I just I don't. Yeah. I wonder like because it just doesn't seem like there's enough functional west roasts left to you know, like like. People either going to back John. I don't know. I'm just wondering, I know you sending ravens obviously, they were saying that, you know, John is the true he's actually gone tar Garin and he's a true air. And he's got a better claim, which you know. But it does seem like there's already enough this episode provides enough evidence that like John votes and Tyrian half to join up and take Dany down one hundred percent like so. Yeah. There's no alternative. Maybe there's dies just to give you know, just just to give here in a little bit conviction and backbone I mean, I think he's he's sending letters. I just don't like gets into the Vale door and send them to the Yarra. Maybe. There's not you're right. There's not a lot. I think we're supposed understand like the poison scheme. It's not going to work. But maybe it will give some people like a little bit of a stiff a little bit of a stiff spine that they wouldn't otherwise have. Yes. Look at various he risked all to try to you know. And he was ultimately, right? And the way they played this about him like sincerely hope I'm wrong. I totally bought that from barris the moment between him and Tyrian is this is a guy who's going to death, and he doesn't beg. He doesn't plead. He's not like a little finger because all he does what happens to him is not as important as what happens to the realm, and I have for so long book various think is a different beast. He might be a little bit more, Trixie but show. Various I think has been true blue the whole time. Like, I came nothing. I'm looking at. I'm looking after little guy the way I wish someone who looked out after me and he died away lived. And I thought that's a great for his character. I also like. Seen again fucking beautiful the way it was shot way. It was lit the way drogue on slowly emerges from the inky. Blackness to fire glinting is is they give it between Carson actually burning. Here's a point. Like John side is Danny. But tell me how this execution is any different than Ned killing the deserter in season one. It is how do you not guilty? What John what have done in the situation? Yeah. Like is he squeamish because she fed him to a dragon. Because like, I promise you various death is no more. What maybe because she didn't swing the sword. Like, but I think that's the point is like, so I don't think you're gonna honestly argue that because her Sanger Harris is her swinging the sword like Ogun doesn't burn that guy in less. She commands it so. Yeah. But if netted said chop this man's head off. A little different than him ping the sword doing himself. I I take your point. That's her weapon. She doesn't have a sword. Right. But, but that's that's kind of my cheeky way of saying. This is exactly what Ned would have done. What did do? This is exactly what John as an adherent of nets flossy would have done would have put this man to death. So to me just John side deigned this circumstance feels false. I agree much more. So I think than the tar lease because they're enemy combatants. They could sure I know John's not there that moment. The people citing her in that moment. You have a point like just take these people prisoner, right? And by west Rosie, custom. That's what you should do to person that won't like as you can ransom valuable. There's many burning them as just you know. I mean, but you can you can also say that like, that's the way that's gone targe area move like you either Neil or you die, and this actually it's kind of like the same atomic bomb logic like well, you drop bombs on cities. So that you say you kill hundreds of thousands of save millions. And I again, I just John side nine amid just just did not make sense to me. Yep. Move onto gray were burning the Sandies only possession, which is her former slave collar John comes in. And he visits Danny who rigs him over the coals for telling his secret. She's very sad that she's not loved by anyone in west rose. And John says, well, that's not true. I love you. And you're my Queen. But when she goes to kiss him he completely withdraws from her. And she takes the hint. And decides that if she can't rule with love she's going to rule with fear. I wish first of all grey were burning Sandy's collar is amazing like his only per- only possession is the slave collar. She owned then this underscores the holder cares thing. Like, I really liked that. I also really like Danes. Here's the thing though. I don't understand why this is happening like Varis had an opinion that John might not be comfortable boning his aunt because he's from the north. And that's the only thing that has served as an explanation for why John would sour on Danny? And I don't know like this is a man who has already broken bows that he saw as extremely important. This is a person who discovered the fact that he's Garin the fact that like you're just supposed to in to it that he does can't he can't a romantic relationship with Dany because she's aunt who doesn't I don't that doesn't that doesn't make sense to me in this particular world. Yeah. Not your high feel about that one. I mean, like I said, I don't I could see like from a modern standpoint that you find that. It's you know, this is your answer. And but like, I just I think you're right. They both lightly told the story of them falling in love them falling. Love is essentially, we're both young attractive and idealistic, and we also are on each other's level. And we've never by like that before remember how well they told it with eager John. Sure. Yeah. The so much more fleshed season to go from adversary to lovers. And also also it kind of had like the whole like interac- reminds she kind of Saul John slipping away or she. But she didn't wanna believe she was blind to that. I love that actually a season and a half this thing it's like they met they had boat sex. And then they found that they were related, and like this is like a five episode arc, and it's it's a little fast and also sticks in my craw. That the double DS offered HBO. It's one thing that turned like, I don't wanna do multiple seasons. HBO says, hey will write a check for ten episodes. And they say, we don't need it. And then we get this you needed it. You you needed it? This is hitting fifty percent rotten tomatoes says at least fifty percent of fandom says you need a little bit more time. So I agree. Keep keep this whole scene in mind because. If they had like just before move it if they had a little story. Well, the all right, then let it be fear Emilia Clarke fucking nailed at lag dangerously spurned lover. I would buy it, certainly. But yeah, keep all this in mind because we're gonna talk later in context with Danny burning the city, and in context of thrones revealed, which is kind of the after show interview with the double DS, there's a lot in there that I wanna into that sort of meta, but sort of deals what they were thinking in these scenes because we don't get that. It's important things. We don't get the we we don't have to see this just in vacuum. Like, we have raiders themselves saying what their thought processes were. We also evaluate things based on that. So many fans I see are are saying, okay. This is the moment. This is the moment where she decided she's going to burn everyone. Right. And that when she says, okay, let it be fear. That means everyone in king's landing is dead. And I disagree, and I have a lot of supporting evidence. Yes. And I'll lay it out when we get there. The first evidence, I think, okay. So Tyrian argues his point about sparing people of king's landing with Danny Danny seems to agree to call off the attack. If Tyrian can get the people to ring the bells and surrender. She even she nods to grey, worm in my mind, indicating that this is the new plan. I know that there's a lot of people that took a the great exception to our views said that this was a lot of people said that this you're supposed to understand that that nod was her to be like, whatever whatever this guy saying you, and I understand each other. I grey worm. I don't think that's in the text. It is not the way. I see it is that she won this last art because there's a very long lingering look at Tyrian as she's trying to decide we'll I give him one last chance. Right. And she says, I've given you one last chance, and if you fuck me again, I'm going to kill you and she nods whereas nods. Yes, go with Tyrian plan. Yeah. Yeah. So in my mind, this isn't land meditated, this isn't Landau nodding the logo like, hey, we're gonna take the stormtroopers. This is like, yeah. Okay. He's he's won the I'm not that type of person. I don't wanna be that person. Let's let's do it. Right. Because they had a long argument where she's like, my this, my the slaves freed fatherm themselves, and he's like, yeah. But that's that's not the relationship. These people had with like their hostages, and she's like we our hostage tire. How's that my fault? And the weakness of mercy in like, there was a nice back and forth. And I think Tyrian felt like tearing one. Yeah. Felt like he did convince her to try one more desperate move. And so if it doesn't work. Yeah. Keep going, and if you think that that there's a some private agreement between grey worm, and Danny I don't see how that's in the text at all. That's an infra never reveal it. That's a surmise will not do. They not set it up. But they also don't reveal it. So how are we to guess at any of that? Right. I took from that scene that she said. Yes, try this. Agreed. Okay. People continue to stream oh, actually at the end of that scene. She also tells Tyrian the Jamie was captured trying to get through their lines. Yeah. We'll get to that a moment. We'll go ahead because I do have. So here's here's here's a here's a one of the problems that I'm going to let Gary s explain says, Jamie. I turns up at winner fell Danny? She wants to kill him for stabbing or father to back and only the intervention of Brienne who's batch for via Sanza who Dany by the way. Now hates prevents her from executing him. So at this point, she captured Jamie for betraying her for trying to get back to surf daddy. But she just decides to keep him as a prisoner yet various gets the full under cares treatment in the same time for betraying her. I this is kind of a problem what it is in someone. Explain to me, why Dany would take have Jamie held prisoner the on the eve of this battle and not just make it a two for one. It's how would Terry Jamie, get a final moment together to say goodbye. In fact, we've got your car stop. That's what I'm saying. Like, in fact, she's keeping a prisoner for like two because there's a day and night transition it comes so she's in a prisoner for multiple days. And you're right. The explanation is because. They needed this next thing for tier and a happen. Yeah. That's like. If you if that's okay with you. That's fine. But please recognize that this is this is an instance where the writers are just pulling a fast one. And hoping that you go along with it. And so much of this story the shock value that has come and game thrones has been mined from the inevitable logical conclusion of characters actions. Yes. And this inevitability this is the complete opposite. Yes. The thing that would happen here is Jamie would be instantly killed by Danny? Right. Not that he would be preserved tied to yet. Another fucking tent pole. And yet another fucking in me encampment like they've done this so many times. Now, I get like that's probably why they wanted to circle back. Do this. Call back to how many times has Jamie been in this situation. Do the callback to win. He freed Tyrian do all these things because that's great. Well, what you undermine other characters in the process you need to find a way to do both. Yeah. And that's what they did. So well. In previous seasons. Sure. Right. Because they had like really careful plotting source material and all that stuff. Yeah. Okay. So people continue to stream into the red keep was wrong, by the way. This is going to be very long episode. I said in the instant ticket probably short. Now, there's no penalty of an episode. If you want like, a thirty minute episodes of podcast, and you know, I don't think the opinions will be this divisive. We'd have to like. Yeah. Sorry. Part of it. Yeah. We have a really Bill or Qaiseer feel like yeah. So people stream into the red keep tearing John and quite a few of the troops land on the beach outside king's landing they plan to attack daybreak and Tyrian esta mysterious favor, which will find out is it kinda crazy votes. Just like this is all offscreen grants. Like, yeah. All do this. I think it works. Oh, I don't know. What Tyrian told him? I want to assume the Tyrian didn't tell him exactly what was up just sort of like Jacob. Oh, I need you to leave down here for somebody. Like, yeah. The onion Knight thought. Oh, we're getting shipment. I guess I thought that like I mean, if this was the worst thing that happened episode. I'd be okay. But like definite, this is dangling Chad to say the least a little bit. I'll give you that. Okay. I think the more aggressive thing is like there is no fleet on the side of king's landing. How did they land? So many troops on this beat and under the nose of your on under the walls that looks like I mean, again, this goes, Shirley, people with the ballista the people with the scorpions and see the encampment being built painstakingly over the course of what must be days. And again, they could probably like, I don't know send somebody down to say, hey, you're on can you go blast any ship that comes near sin sin one ship over there to deal with these fucks? Yeah. Because Danny doesn't have any. So they can just allowing enemy troops to land on your beaches. I don't know. And also like they stage. I think they did a poor job of staging this. Because this is the sins of last episode there. Well within those ballista ranges I salute. Yeah. Like, the range of those things as seen of last episode is fucking obscene, and like the realistic range of this has already enough to realistically threaten the dragon. But the. There's a tension there. Like if this thing that are realistic range of three four hundred yards. Like a dragon would never be like you only get one, right? Yeah. Kill you. By the time, you're in fire range dragons and ballista, but like no this range of like, three miles. So there I'll class battleships just fucking. Yeah. There's there's no reason why they should be allowed to just set up this camp. You've got a navy. They have basically no navy. Yup. Why would you not set up some kind of blockade rankings landing to not let them land their troops? Yeah. I don't know. It doesn't make any sense. But we've seen time and time again, the none of the battle plans that made any sense to bed Stu bed. That's just how it goes. Now. So the hound aria get stopped on their way into the city by I think one of the stark men, they tell him they're on their way to kill the Queen which sort of confuses him fun. It's a it's it's a funny scene. It is. Yeah, it's very good. And they continue through this guy. Presumably runs off. Actually, presumably just keeps to himself. Yeah. Right to your captain. Right. But time that's done there in. Reminded me of the scene in ev- injures, like Kathan, American a black widow and Hawkeye or commandeering like fighter jet and one of the mooks comes up. You're not supposed to have gotten like, son. Just don't like what. Like, okay, you're going to talk to your captain. Why you do that? We're going to keep going under no threat like come on come on. You have a name. You're not even credited I'm the fucking hound. This is fucking. No, we'll get to. Yeah. I I was asking myself after this episode. Why isn't are you using any face at this point because it'd be sort of the perfect time sneaking in king's landing would make a lot of sense to and especially like in front of the hound like to prove once and for all to the hound that she has supreme ability that she is the warrior that he always thought she couldn't be like show her take face right in front of the hound. It would be able to explain a lot to us as an audience of how this whole thing works. It would be able to like I said cemented in the house mind who she is all of this will make sense. And even in the context of him saying, you don't wanna be me. Sure. At the end, it would make it maybe more powerful. I think what they're doing though is they're saving this for Danny potentially. Maybe like, I I really do think that we will get aria doing some face shit in aside because she didn't even do that to kill the night king. Like if her big face heist was killing. Alder fray and west rose. But who is a Nike and get close enough to him that face would matter. I get it. I'm just saying that like it's I don't feel like they've quite paid off those abilities yet, I agree which is why I think they're going to try and pay off next episode. I'm agreeing with you. Oh, okay. Then we're all in agreement here. Let's move onto Tyrian going to see the imprison, Jamie. The stupidest land. Yes. I would agree. He releases Jamie with condition that he at least try to convince her to give up and leave kings landing via this boat that he apparently gets from DeVos. There's a tearful goodbye wintering. Thanks, Jamie for being the reason he survived childhood. And I went into the scene going what the fuck, and I came out of this scene going slow clap. Bravo. Like, the kind of nailed it at the end. I guess didn't the thing that made work for me is the whole time of Mike Tyrian. How can you think that this is going to happen? But like at the end, and I'm going to about the compare this the Jamie, he says he was like, look if you do this queens, execute you interior and says, oh, you know, if I win the war the firemen shot, maybe she'll forgive him. And then Jamie looks all right. Ten thousand people are worth one. Not so innocent war. He's very like that tells me the Tyrian knows that even if he successfully complete. Submission. He's going to be killed by Dany. He's making a noble sacrifice. This stands in contrast to Jamie sang I never much cared for the innocence home. I god. Like, I think for symmetry to happen that Tyrian half to be like bullshit this no year. In fact, your entire characters been defined by the fact that you unlike your sister can't not care about innocent. I mean, this is a man who traded his honor any lifetime of eating shit from everyone in the realm to save the innocent. Yes. And he has done things too. And not just the innocence these innocence in particular, right that he's very people that he says I'd never cared for this line is a huge mistake. Yes. This line is ignoring everything that makes Jamie, Jamie. And if you want if I buy that that he saying that as a Lancaster bravado. But I wish tearing had called him on at the same way, Jamie. Call Tyrian on his like, oh, we'll maybe the Queen will give mercy. He's like I wish here and be like, I don't believe that Jamie's like, well, you're right. You know, but here. Here's the problem. What's okay? Let's grant that this is bravado. And and that. Jamie does care. Well, then fundamentally undermines his character goes back and doesn't actually care about the innocence. He's only there to comfort. Let's go the other way. And let's say that he actually never cared. He's only cared for C. And he never cared about the NSS and somehow that lines up with being the kings layer, which doesn't, but let's say. Is that does that not completely undermine everything? They've done between him and brand speech in that bathtub is a fucking lie to her face this breakdown of this man at his most vulnerable moment all elaborate lie that makes no sense in the context of those episodes zero. No, I either way you want to read that line. It is wrong just wrong. There's a way they could've told a story where Jamie's trying to stop and trying to kill her. But when you finally gets to her it's too late because Danes gone crazy. So like, he's like, well, I could kill for no good this woman because like, you know, just pathetic at this episode. I could be like, you know, what it'd be almost like a moment of grace for like Jamie to like, you know, what I'm gonna try to go out as peacefully and as with with as little bitterness as possible. But the fact that turns out all along he's got this addiction to search. I just feel like that is not. Story that they're trying to tell four seasons for Jamie Laister, this man doesn't care arc. It's a character circle. It's it's a it's a epic swerve. It's it's a Justice subversion with no setup. And I'm I feel as strongly about this anything. Yeah. I think this is actually the worst part of the John Jamie didn't have to be the one to kill her see. Not the problem. It's this this. I never much cared for innocence. And for that to be standing for that to like seem like the episode believing. And if you go the behind their inside the episode or behind episode underneath the episode or the through that personas asshole, whatever the things called like I feel like the double DS what they say is nonsense. It's just nonsense. It is we'll get to that one. Danny burns city. Okay. I want to hear also the Tyrian understood the nod Danny gave to grey worm to be one of acknowledgement. This is the new plan because he tells Jamie ring the bells opened the gates. That's all we have to do here, and Danny will sand down. Yeah. And also like you said, bro. Bravo, like, it's even with all the problems of this. I think that the moment where Tyrian breaks down and says, you're the reason I survive childhood, and the fact that he's he's freeing Tyrian or. Jamie exact same situation Tyrian freed Jamie frontiersmen, like if if tyring hadn't killed Taiwian Jamie's and a lot of trouble like the only reason like like, that's committing very high Treason's. I it's it's like area Evelyn exchange. These others loving each other makes a lot of sense. I just I don't know. I don't like the fact tearing seems like he has a sauce spot for C, and the Jamie still has a soft spot for C, and how much more poetic is that. If Jamie had lead Tyrian go into and kills their father. Tyrian? Let's Jamie, go and Jamie kills Kevin see Sint linked to or mention an interview with the Nikolai Coster while Dow I pry butchered his name, he says he had to create his own head Canaan for why Jamie return to search so abruptly because his character's progression didn't make sense to him. And this reminded me a lot of rumor we used to the old Walker Stocker cons back when the Walking Dead was transitioning from attempted prestige drama about zombies into total horsh it and handle after anal-. It was actors like being asked things and they were saying like, you know, what? Yeah. It makes sense to us. But then you know, we kind of worked out that may be what happened in like they were clearly doing the work that the writers weren't willing to do. And this these seasons are first time. I started hearing that from the cast of game of thrones super Conley. The guy plays various, right? He also said basically the same thing. I thought. Character was underserved. I thought it was week. I didn't have much to do in these final season. And he was ultimately disappointed in the role. The Veras had in the final seasons and not not simply because oh, I wasn't in the show much more. Because various has always been a character who very much gets involved in these situations, and it'd be fair they're super cuts people put the like an eight minute video of everyone having allegedly negative reactions of the season. And I think a lot of that way. Overplayed, sure. But no like when when they say specific things like it's hard to argue, the various wasn't underserved these last few seasons. It's hard to argue that this is what everyone not not was expecting this averted. But just like this. This is actually what people this is the way this is the way to tell the story of Jamie being addicted this, I I don't know big problem for me. Yeah. Into the golden company lines up against the northern forces Tyrian tells John that the bells means surrender and aria and the hound make it into the red keep just as they shut the gates but Jamie's a little too late. So. Tried to find an alternate way. Inside. I thought it was nice. Actually evil, though, he didn't know at the hound sort of causes this woman and her child trapped outside the city. They're literally last one or the first ones to get shut out of the city. It feels like a callback to the hound steel in the silver from the farm. Find out that he's another just like a thoughtless action on his single minded focus on his revenge has doomed another innocent family already hit pointed out. He probably would have said they're dead anyway. Right. And so. Be right. Right. I love the shot of like the leader the golden company. Harry Strickland how they show like over his head and shoulders. You see in the distance John's army, and it's kind of like an inverse of the battle of the bastards Miguel Sopotnica pointed out in the game of thrones revealed stuff. I thought that's great because it's foreshadowing the fact that you're about to see John and the unsullied and adopt Iraqi and Oliver quote, unquote, heroes act like villains kind of revealing that in war. There is very little difference between good and evil other than their objectives. Like, you know. So I thought that stuff was all really good all the establishing shots the city looking beautiful. There's this gorgeous shot of Serbia looking at you can see the ruined dragon pit and all of king's landing, and it just looked so fucking real. I just can't can't can't believe how beautiful looks. I mean, the effects just get better. And better because it's next scene were Danny attacks, the scorpions both ship mounted wall mounted and completely wiping out. Every single one of them. Looks amazing death and her attack coming out of the sun. I thought was a great way to say what's different about this time. And then her learned a little bit her going there and then swooping down low. So that the guns king's landing half to completely, you know. Depress their aim and then have drove on swoop up and towards them. It's a little like even having said that this would not be a problem. If last episode didn't exist because it's all it even with all the stuff. They did explain Dany. Did it seems hard to believe that she hadn't zero problems pulling off? Yes this question of accuracy. And yeah, look, I get it. The sun is in their face. And I like how you know John lines up in. He puts Harry Strickland's face right into the sun. This is no pun intended. Sun Suu, basic art of worship, right like this has been known for thousands of years like basic World War One World War Two aerial. Tactics. I just don't. I just I just wish that there's someone put together a really cool like reimagining of last episode scene where they told the story so they exact same footage. But they re cut it to where happens this way Danny's flying high. She sees your on's fleet and things this fucker is going to try to ambush me again. So she takes her to dragons because she's still got reggae with her into the dive and the mass volley of the cross bolts drives her away. And then they cut to Reagan getting shot down from they imply from the mat like that makes a lot of sense that like if you can get that these things are just like accurate from miles away, and you can track moving dragons like I don't know like they could've told that. No one forced the no one put a gun to their head and said that you have to kill Ray gal and this apprise shocking faction with unerring machine gun style. Crossville accuracy. But they did. So now, I just feel like they. They should have saved that for now. Like with you like, oh, I'm about like, wait till we get there's a suggestion that I will get to endanger NHS evil that. I think is like closed book. This is how they should have done it. And I cannot believe dozens of high paid writers didn't see it. I it's hard to believe. Anyway. So so one thing I wanted to point out, which I thought was hilarious, and I posted forums. You're on in this in this scene. He gets subtitled as soldier one. When he's yelling to crew to turn the guns around, which is just like as as useless and pointless as you're on has been this entire time. And how much people are just like who fuck is this guy? Why do we care to label him at some nameless soldier in the captions great? Plus he's drinking out of a yeti Cup. I mean why he's doing it? That's the thing that really through heels cracking cups, but but the funnier thing I think though, or maybe the Satter thing is at the production team completely ignores because there are two people shouting turn it around here. One is you're on nameless soldier one. The other is a guy on his boat. What is wrong a Ron with a guy on his boat shouting, turn it around their mutes did the show did to like to go to episodes ago on twenty dudes killed every person on on your on bus. He had the. Had to reluctantly crew with people who could talk and he put him in the garb of his people didn't let them wear their Lancaster armor. He's like if you're coming on my boat, you're gonna wear our fucking robes. Yeah. That's specht. But it's just like it's so sloppy. It's just an in. It's indicative of the care that they put into this final season. I'm. I would be willing to forgive it in a better episode kind of forgive or the Starbucks Coffee Cup. It's like there's a catch everything. I get it. But it just there's a pattern after awhile where they just don't try hard enough. Yes. Aspersion disbelief is like an anti gravity device. They don't fail gracefully. Like, they like once you if you're mile high over to earth, and you're you got your anti gravity system on fails. You crash you don't like smoothly descend and suspension disbelieves the same way. Once you get to your breaking point wherever that is. And if you're like, Danny, maybe don't even have the breaking point at all, you can just decide the like not have your light. Once that fails. I've seen it time and time again, that's when people that's when the nitpicking to quote, unquote, nicking comes out all the that. You would have ignored because you're down at the story. Now becomes you're looking for justification of wire not liking it. If you want to say, I'm picking I am sure. Yeah. I am. But like you said there there is this and the show used to have an investigation of these knits. And they're knits that have been directly contradicted in the plot that they spell out on the screen earlier like pre degree just thing. They say, oh all of his crew mutes like that. How can you never mind? Forget it. All right, Khyber and reports the bad news. The ballista are gone the scorpions done. The iron fleet has gone. The golden company is gone. Certainly thinks they're going to win. She's pretty secure in her belief that the right. Keep has never fallen it won't today. Yeah. The land will fight to their last the very last man we had in last week's episode of the spoiler addition someone wrote in about like the fact that they've built rebuilt this debris, Nick set in Northern Ireland and Belfast actually measured somewhere. I'm not sure if that's Northern Ireland Ireland or what but they built this thing. And it was like the gist of it was just to avoid spoilers leaking out. But it's clear to me that they had the build the set to do the destruction of king's landing. Oppor-? And I was amazed at how much practical effects, and I think it was worth it because these large CG battles. Sometimes they're not quite convincing. But having been actually be on fire having a giant gate actually slowed with all these gasoline rigs having these this destruction actually happened on a large set we have since Lord of the rings, and it led to an utterly convincing battle led to an utterly convincing battle. I agree and one where I truly felt the power of this dragon. Did you see one thing? I want a point might participate show notes. This guy named backseat taxidermist on on the sub read at our slash game of thrones released. Patch notes for episode five and he did Langley about this. It's really funny because if you're video gamer, you know, that like when you're favorite game gets pats, everyone goes through and sees what got Nerf what got buffed, and they they had bullet points like scorpions. Get Nerf this episode reduced significantly reduced accuracy here. Oh character you're on. No longer gives bonus the scorpion accuracy. There's what was the other one northerners unsullied both have reduced honor and morality meters. It's now possible for them to commit war crimes of little to no provocation. You're on plot. Armor has now been removed. It's really really funny stuff. So if you hate the episode, it's funny if you liked episode prize annoying, I'll Lincoln in show notes. Let's move on Lancer forces faced with certain death, decide to surrender. I realized this tints standoff fell like really really cool, and Danny lands on the walls and intimidates the fuck out of everybody the land is receivers all throwing down their swords. It's it's great. I'm gonna pick a knit. Okay. The Lancers have their helmets open in the scene. There squaring off against the stark forces and their helmets completely open. Gray worms even wearing his anymore. This is true. This is like one of those things where like I understand what the decision to have the all the faceless mooks have to have their faces shown like it's weird. It's almost scarier and more intimidating if they don't. Yeah. But I think that they really wanted you to see the battle going on Lancaster's between our loyalty to our house, and oh Jesus certain death, and you needed that's told with a close up of the sword in their hand and close the sword dropping, I agree. But I think it's a defensible artistic decision to wanna see their eyes darting. It's in. Yeah. The most part this was a very tense moment. Yes. They create a lot of tension here. Especially when you see like Danny watching the city Tyrian watching the bells or see watching, Danny and dragon. Let's keep going the bells ring, signaling surrender, which is exactly when Danny decides to burn everyone grey worm takes us as acutest are killing and the north men for some inexplicable reason ignore the king of the north as he shouts orders to follow suit. They murder rape. And pillage king's landing. Okay. Let's let's take this one time because I think some of the stuff more defensible than you're letting on. Okay. Let me ask you this. Because I don't think this is very defensible. Okay. Why is grey worm here? Why wouldn't it be where the sullied there with him? No. They're not are you. Sure. Yes. I am. This is just this is all north, man. This John in the north Mun unsullied or insulted win because the unsullied the death Raqi and the north all charged gate simultaneously. I'm wrong, and they're in the way back and they're not getting in the shot. Well, they had a weird way of moving where they have to take one half step at a time. You know, right. Yeah. Every time I there and horseback Northerns are just scream. Running and then the death the unsullied or doing her lockstep thing. Yeah. It seemed to me it was author Aki leading the charge and their horses. Unsullied right behind them with with grey, worm leading them commanding them getting getting a lot. This is feeling like the small business. Yeah. But we got we got bigger. But like this whole situation goes down entirely differently of great, isn't there? So I was just questioning why doesn't. Yeah. Because he's spark. He's the spark for the Listerman to or starring instrument the stark men to go all ape shit on the minister. I think it's an once Dane Dany Bill burning cities Spar. Yeah. Watch it watch it again this year. But I'm saying John's there to tell everyone to calm the fuck down, and they're his men and he's the king in the north. He can hold this situation. I fully believe if you believe it doesn't spark I disagree. I think maybe takes five seconds made takes ten megabyte wants to whole cities on fire and Danes doing it. Like, I think it's inevitable because here's the thing. I think it's very realistic that the northerners on sullied and authroity all fucking go ape shit because the north. Remembers. This is the city that killed their beloved Ned stark. This is the people that have betrayed and back stabbed and killed them. And trick them and humiliated them and exploited their honor and integrity, and there will like this like, so they got a reason to hate these people and see. Vengeance done the unsullied spos- supposedly incorruptible army that was not going to rape and pillage cities because that's not what they do. They're inhumanly trained not to do. It have been taught that they're individuals, and they have pride and they love their freedom, and they sell one of their slave sisters Rian slaved thrown off a fucking wall. So they're like they're led by grey worm. And he's ready to go ape shit, and da you don't need a fucking reason. That's their throttle stuck in like bat ship battlecry anyway. So like all three of these factions? If it wasn't great women have been somebody because their phone after lead, and it is kinda funny because because John's like stop stop killing Lanester soldier comes forty disemboweled them. Stop the senseless violence and one comes forward. He's asked to hack that guy to death. Like, there's no way he he obviously has to defend himself. Yeah. Once the route comes on there's no way he can stop it. Because he's the only guy I agree with that. He he's he's shell. Chalked in the moment. When he sees Dante burning the city, he sees his own troops attacking. He's not going to try and quell this. He's going to be shocked, which was let's let's talk the big inch Lada here. Dan is on the the wall. She's waiting to see if presumably the bells will ring because she doesn't start this immediately. There's all these people crying out help us help us, please someone ring the bell ring the bell for like, there's all these cries. And she hears it like how is this not the people crying out for savior the bell finally rings? And then she starts burning the city down and she exit sky. And I thought they were going to tell the story of her just like burning the red keep and I'm like, okay? This is interesting because this is legitimate military tactic or target. But sir Sarana with innocent people, and it's going to be Dany thinks he's justified and John still a sick. And by the loss of innocent life. She starts tortured and tires. Villian population I- indefensible, I don't. Yeah. I don't get. And there's ways like, okay, let's say you don't kill radar last episode. Let's say that Dany takes radar into battle with her. And since she doesn't trust John anymore. She forbids him the ride or whatever. And so Ray up on the wall screaming at everybody way drogue on those. And what if so the bells ring battles over, but someone between sir c or Khyber n-, probably you're on just unilaterally decide that shoot. One last crossbow bolt and kills Rego. Now, you got Danny legitimately fucking losing her shit. Like, she sees he's been betrayed. She suspects Tyrian. She suspects. John one of children's Zimin been murdered after to battle as already been one after she she handedly wins, the surgical battle. I how is it? Just not straight better. How better? Yeah. No, I can think of I've seen on the fan communities here fifty different ways that this plays out that make far more sense in the moment than this. Did I wanna make a comparison to red wedding here because I think this is key. Because a lot of people in Email said, you know, this. There's no different distant red wedding. Like it. Okay. What if may read wedding happened? And when rob got when rob got to the twins. He goes the fray Walter phrases Walder, I've been really thinking about and digitally. I want to set. You're right. I was immature. I I'm going to set aside to Lisa. I'm going to marry your daughter, and she'll be Queen of the north does. Walter fray, still go through the red wedding with that fat like. Yeah. That changes the mathematics or better yet. What if rob never betrayed him in the first place? What if you had like they told the story of literally everything going Danny's way, and she decides to rule through fear by destroying an entire civilian pilots something she's never ever done before. Yeah. Something she's corru-. She's decried many times. Like, I I want to help these people. I am. I am the breaker of chains. I wanna break the wheel of tyranny. Yeah. And again, there's a lot of you can make an argument that this was all foreshadowed I just needed. And the other thing is like I don't feel like the double DS did a great job at telling the story. Because like, I think my understanding is Dany just went insane. She went mad Queen. But it seems like in the interview sessions, they take great pains to say that no Danny's not going crazy. Well, here's the thing is they say that Zoya premeditated. And they're. They're they're paraphrased quote here is that this is premeditated. And when she's sitting on the wall and the bells ringing, and she sees the keep she decides to make this personal is exactly what she decided to make this personal y which which which I mean that is them saying this was not premeditated. And so everybody who saying like, oh that gnawed degrade worm actually nothing meant the exact opposite of what is you were thought that meant is undercut by the creators of the show telling you, this is not what we had in our minds. We created these scenes also making this personal what does making this personal have to do with the people kings innocence of king's landing you like you want to free of tyranny when she says I decided to make a personal person within her insertion. Yes. Like, and it's still ready shocking and things out the red keep and the collateral damage. Yes. It would be shocking would already be enough to probably push John and. Does interior over the edge other thing, I guess is like even if she even of Ray gal died the way I just outlined it like it still doesn't excuse her burning the city. It's still clearly a massive overreaction. You wouldn't want from a righteous leader immoral. Yeah. It's much much more understanding this just her deciding to make a personal and deciding that the people of king's landing are the ones that were firing across Bo bolts at her and the ones that killed her friend like there is a person that did that it's hibernate, sir. See it's your on. These people are crying out to be saved from these fucking people. They haters much as anyone they dislike. And she's gotten the thing that she's always wanted which is take back the red keep fucking family national going to she's not even on the precipice of having gotten that. She got it. She did it. She has one on. And like maybe like again, she wants burn down to read keep it. Honestly, he's done like. Yeah. You March troops in there you killer. And and when they show her face, you can see it even on face for the first time she realizes I'm done. Yeah. I just. Mean they did enough for you to believe that this is that this is Dana didn't I actually kind of envious of you because the whole rest is episode. Just fucking works. It does. Yeah. But to me, this is fine. Buying this. And again, I don't think it's too much to ask. If you're gonna ask the secondary or primary hero, depending on how you want to look at it. If you're going to turn them to dark side. I don't think it's too much to ask for them and do a little bit better job. Because like I to me this very anikin Skywalker where yes, sure he murdered. The problems are almost exactly the same. I didn't fully by his relationship with pad may identify his friendship. Obi one. I did full in by him just kill into San people for this contrived way. And then like the scene returns dark side a fifteen minute span. He goes the maze. Windu gains, everything you wanted which is the trust and prestige of the Jedi council. Mace Windu goes to rest the person needs to be arrested. And then he's like oh shit. Then my girl dies. I can't bring her back. Then he betrays Mace Windu, then you falls to his knees and says what have I done? The emperor says go kill all the young woolens. And then like, I'm sorry. I think there's a lot more. Common with Danny's fall to the dark side with anikin Skywalker than any other. Like like the perfect way that this has been done as Walter white and breaking bad, and as a person to cover that many seasons to get there and person and the thing is like. At the end, the breaking bad. There was still a few defenders of Walter white just as the beginning of raking bad. There's a few people said not I'm not rooting for him. He's a bastard the whole time, but look at how the audience like you can tell whether they've done their job by how many people of go along with it. And when you see this kind of mixed reaction, it is a failure storytelling because people are not out to get this show. They want the love this show. I wanna love this show. I want to show I struggled. I went back through whatever catalog of this show that I have in my head. And I looked at the previous episodes in seasons of your. Seasons one through four and I tried to think of a single scene in a single episode. The dissatisfied me that was less than excellent. And I couldn't I couldn't think of a single damn seen in all of the first four seasons. Game of thrones me down in any way. And now here we are in season age short cutting our way to a thirteen episode double season that is so fundamentally flawed in the understanding of these characters and what what drives them and what will push them over the edge certain scenarios. I look back and say man, what could have been I'm sympathetic to the people says if ignorance the small stuff, and he'd just go with the broad strokes this actually tracks and his very game of thrones. It's probably something like a lot. But I just I just wish that like it's like they didn't do the small stuff. Right. And then I can't go along with them on the big stuff. Like, I guess if you just just like, I think episode three of Star Wars works. If you just go away. Along with it as gothic opera. That kind of works on some kind of intuitive emotional level and doesn't make logical soon. But you know, what I said why I was pretty much fucked George Lucas on on that one too. So no, I I have been saying all along you can go back, and you listen to the podcast. I have been saying this. They have very well told the story of Danny being on the edge of her her being flipped and spinning in the air. Yes. They have told that story. So well, I could so believe it, and I was I've never been on the side of like, I will riot. If Danny goes evil, I think that's a perfectly valid outcome for this character. They just didn't quite make it across the finish line in telling that story if sandy died in front of her eyes, and she instantly went beserk there needed to be. Yes. Walk walk off the screen in that last episode get on your fucking dragon and burn this place to the ground. Because Danny is a dragon that can be waked and can be active rational can get like a head of herself. But she doesn't premeditated murder. A bunch of civilians. No reason they have not think they've told that story, and they didn't give me a reason to believe that she had changed her mind about, and if you think they have I'm very happy for you wish I this is probably one of the best episodes of game three if you believe that. Because again, the first half of this works the second half again. I don't I think accepting Jamie shit. But the, yeah, it would be another case where it's like, well, you know, they had a couple of bumpy roads. But. Yeah. So one more final point from a book perspective. There's actually a lot of really subtle textual clues for Danish eventual fall, and they start surprisingly early, for example, denarius introduced to us. She frequent remembers her child at home and Bravo's where her brother I lived in exile. Because it's the only safe happy secure environment. She's ever known as she recalls. The limit tree that grew outside our home and most prominently the big bright red door that adorned entrance and just third POV chapter in the very first book game of thrones. She had these thoughts as you. Try to focus reminds I on west rose, but it was not the planes. Denny sold in it was king's landing and the great red keep of eight on the conqueror had built it was drinking stone where she had been born in a mind's eye. They burned with a thousand lights blazing every window in mind's eye all the doors were writ if you'd like to join the legions of book readers who have and will. Continue to comb through the books looking for great bits of potential foreshadowing like this audible is a great way to experience the saga. And you can start listening today with a thirty day audible trial, which gets your first audio book plus to audible originals for free every book and George. Martin's a song of ice and fire series is available on audible site, all in a convenient app that allows you to listen everywhere. You are at the gym in your car, mowing your lawn. And if you're not happy with their choices audiobook exchanges are free and easy. Your credits. Roll over for up to year and you keep your existing library. Even if you cancel so start listening today to begin your free thirty day trial. Visit audible dot com slash GO tea or text GIO t to five hundred dash five hundred. All right. Let's move on. Yeah. Jamie continues to make his way to see your on finds him on the beach, and they fight Jamie stabbed in the side with a foot long. I'm being generous foot long dagger Jamie get stabbed again in the other side, but he's able to kill your on. And he makes his way onto the walls as your gloats about killing Jamie, Lancaster, kind of two scenes that combined here. But here's the thing. This I think is completely indefensible the fact that you're on would be blown off his boat. At this. Like, there is a one minute gap where this scene works. And again, this was the only problem I had at the episode, then maybe could decry decrying nit-picker, but you're on has he ever done anything, but swoop in at the last minute. Through some crazy coincidence and lock and do some devastating thing to a major character. We love has he done anything. But that and his entire existence of game of thrones. I may be when he's first introduced at the king's move, maybe the generated and he comes home swaggering. Fuck see if the coin you like all of his big moments are just unearned moments triumph. Can you imagine? If they took instead of your on killing Jamie or wounding Jamie mortally, if they just had like, you said, this gal thing where you're on is just like I fucked the Queen as he fires the last ballista bolt that goes right into Rague. Al sure setting Danny? See that. Yeah. Yeah. But amazing this goes back to like when they gutted aria and through were into that filthy canal. I don't know why they do like why did Jamie have to get run through his guts twice by eighteen inch dagger. Yeah. Like, it's unbelievable. I just feel like they continually in the last two or three or four seasons doing this thing. And they do it multiple times as episode is. We're about to discuss I mean, they do it multiple times in this scene. They stab him in the in the sides, but they stab you're on the guts. And you're completely incapacitated by it. Right. Like, I Don able to stand up even. Yeah. I just like they win characters used to take fatal damage damage on this show. It was fatal. And there's a couple of notables most notable examples like the hound being left for dead all that kind of stuff. But like. Increasingly they've done this horsh it where they're trying to generate what a fan reaction by putting characters in mortal danger and not killing them. But the problem is just as Walking Dead. Learn to it sorrows you can only do that. So many times before the fans stop caring before it just comes across his armor. Yeah. I mean, they do it. Do with Jamie brand pod. Sam Tyrian last episode with the mask coming down on his head. They undermine the truly impressive work that they do at conveying the power of dragon fire by having your on totally fine. Getting hit by a near direct hit right after having aria get up totally fine after hitting getting hit with the near direct hit. The undermined the great work that they've done there by killing these characters in these situations. And I'm also meeting them in the first place. It's also just such a pointless thing. Because Jamie, never really. I mean, the whole story about Jamie's he's not a warrior anymore, and like, I guess he did kick enough ass last last episode, but like I kind of borderline shocking to me that he was able to be your own even with the grievous injury. And I guess, you know, you're undeniable word, and you're just gotten blown off the boat, and you're on just fucking swam three miles from shore. But it just I don't know this profoundly silly it. And that's that's saying nothing about the just giant coincidence about this particular day time and place. There's like a hundred feet ashore and thirty seconds of chronological time for these people the meet, and I don't like, no, no my suspension. This is not powerful enough to make me believe nor care about this. Because I also don't understand why you're on that why you're on gets this moment. That's the bigger disappointment. In my mind is that you're on is nothing of character that gets to arguably kill the one of the most. Beloved or hated characters and the entire series. Right. Why does he why does he get that moment? I don't know. He doesn't deserve it. All right Bye-bye seeing their imminent loss. Takes two makers. Hold fast. How much you want to say about that? So it's definitely sees. Yeah. She's done. So this is a cool little detail like makers whole Fasces this like squat little square castle within the castle. And if you're calling season one or maybe season. Yeah, I think season one Regina Frey was. Tormenting signs that by making our look at our fathers head on a spike, and they cross that drawbridge that she almost jumped off with all those spikes. That's actually may hold fast. Like, there's this giant mote? That's got a drawbridge, even if you defeat the red keep then you have to also and this like twelve thick walls. It's built to be impregnable. So that's where he suggesting to retreat, and I thought that was kind of kind of cool. Now outside as as Khyber n- is ushering her way. We start to see wildfire caches start to explode. I not quite sure what they're going with this. Whether this is literally lay mad king Ariza wildfire. Dragon fire or lacking heirs Danny or if it's like sh- like bits as a side effect of leading Danny off the hook a bit because it's entirely possible that these wild certainly would have blown these and burnt a city down. Anyway, there's a third possible. I mean, they're probably a lot of possibilities. But another one is that these are leftover for making ariza's days, which I kind of like the most these notoriously hid them throughout the city. They weren't what the Matic what the man what what cinematic the Matic motif. Is it serving to have them going off at this moment? Well, the same one as as it would have if like I mean, this is the elbow the, wink nudge, Danny mad king thing. Right. It serves that purpose as well. Okay. Just to remind us that era suggests and this is about what would happen if he were to executed his plan. But then you also have to be reminded the Jamie was the defender of the people there is sort of unfortunate. So are in the how'd arrive in the map room. How tells her to go home because he's already dead and says you don't wanna become me consumed by hatred essentially in our asked him. Or thanks him. Sorry as he leaves to hunt down his brother is this. Does this feel like an earn moment for? Yes. I think so I think the connection this is one of the strongest connections that they've developed over the course of these eight seasons or pretty close eight seasons. Seven I think done a really good job with our in the hound. And in my opinion, the only person who could have backed her down at this point is the hound. I just wish they had done they'd played her a little bit more ambivalent with Gingrich. I wish you'd played a little bit more ambivalent with Maria like everything to me. Tolls tells me story of it's too late for this little girl. She seemed too much shit. She's been through too much shit. She's like it's like could the hound have talked himself out of a life of engines, if he like someone gun back and told his eighteen year olds of your don't want to go down this path sand or this athletes, death, like isn't Ari at least that committed. I mean. Yeah, I could buy that argument. I just I felt like again, this is another one where I just didn't quite believe her switch from avenging death angel too scared little girl running for her life. I wish I did. But I I didn't I didn't. Okay. Let's move onto the keep begins caving in on the mountain, which I really liked this moment shield her from the falling rebel as the rest of the king's guard is falling around her dead. Just shows just how what the what what what the job in front of the hound is like, yeah. It's so good in the lead up to this and leave it like when you see this five hundred pound boulder bounce off this guy. It's like, yeah. That's about right. That armor that body. He's undid Fulla whatever magic hybrids pumped full of it. Just just sells. It just gets you hype for the cla gain bowl what's about to happen. And it's not the only thing they do. Because of the gamble begins when out walks up, but not before Khyber NHS head is dashed to pieces on the wall by the mountain and surface links off no Mans as curse hypes layer. I'm telling you. So amazing. The wake hybrid is is spot on. I also like when the hound comes in and says your grace between. Big brother and the way the way the mountains glares at, sir. See when she says stay by my side, and his eyes or just you can tell the like, no matter what kind of magic hybrids work in like, there's in whatever lizard part of his brain. It's still working. He hates his brother down to his fucking balls. And they just like nothing can stop this not any amount of queen's guard not any amount of Warlock of the disgraced Maistre 's. It's it's perfect. This is everything this is this is the one thing that I think they completely completely nailed nailed everything about it. Yeah. We we kinda even not even mad that the how let's go because I he fully believed that everyone at this like, and then he was right. No under sending REO way believes everyone is dead. This deepen the castle. No one's getting out. Like, you might be able to get out if you're still in the streets landing and you start leaving right now. But everybody else is dead. So he like, I think it would have been cool if you cut her down as like like he says he said like aria stark says Hello and just cut her down. But then you wouldn't get the horse shit thing with Jamie and. But yeah, no gamble. Ten additon eleven additon. Plus, plus, plus, so we go we cut back and forth here between several scenes. It's jamie. It's the hound. It's aria. But can I ask you this here on the Sumi did on the behind the scenes that they shot the aria fleeing from king's landing a one shot or one or no? Yeah. So they shot this at probably great pains and expense as they single tracking shot of her going through king's landing, and they didn't use it as that an editing. They decided that intercut it with the gain bowl. And I wonder if it's because they realized no one really cares to see five minutes. Aria trying to get out of king's landing. Like, it's. How I get a little battle fatigue. When it's about an hour long con- like as good as the special effects are. And it'd be I think it'd be better if I was fully engaged in like all of the four different plots of trying to tell the story, and I was only really engaged with John and Vos and like the gamble. But like, it feels like to me, it's it's that was that's a storytelling failure, they get into editing. Bays. Aw, shit does one or we can't use because. Will I I don't know if I really I mean, I think they made the right storytelling. Call the end. Oh, what makes a discreet is what's important there? But it's awkward because I think that the way they cut the KLA gain bowl and aria. They're they're telling a story a connected story. Like the hounds on one check during our is on another trajectory. But then they kept on kind of for me undercutting it by putting are in mortal danger like for my count. She dies from debris hitting her. She died from fires. She dies from being trampled to death. And by the rocky running down like she should have died four or five times. And there's no reason why they kept endangering her again. And again, and again, and again, it just I can feel you there. Okay. But but I think they made the right choice because I think even cla gain bowl as a one or gain bowl. Like, yeah. All at once might have been too much. I think intercut in these scenes makes a lot of. Hear it more even more strongly connects aria in the hound their potential fates here. I think it breaks up the action which could have got less exciting. If it wasn't broken up. Is this a good point as Intini heaping praise upon gamble? Sure do it because he puts the sword straight through the mountain. But it doesn't faze him. What when the things because like I wrote these books. God's turns out calm. And I we one of the things we spent a lot of money on is hiring. Chase stone to do the artwork for the novels or the books and one of the things we had illustrative cla gain bowl, and it's one of my favorite stations. And he does this thing where the way he portrayed it and chases kind of known this the way he uses light in his art. And like this to sunlight is streaming through the units Coliseum. They're fighting in. There's all these like Volusia trumpeters, but they did this great job of like showing this bathe in like this almost like renaissance looking painting and that panel of the hound at the bottom of the stairs and Gregor at the top and drove on fly. Lying over is just fucking beautiful. And the fact that like when he's pulling the sword. Abbas chestnuts heads Frayne by the son. He's ripping off his arm or feelings Frankenstein form, you've got this casting. You've got this Rory. Mccain's six foot six a beast in zone. Right. And you literally have the world's strongest man in real life fresh off the world's strongest man competition, and he's able to take Rory throw him around like a child, then the fact that like when he's punching him it looks like every one of those is a near-fatal blow and the the hound is like he's got him choking. And he's stabbing him. And he's he's laughing. He can't believe he can't kill this guy. And he's like, why won't you fucking die. All of this is so true that hounds character and felt so fucking satisfying. Man. I agree to that. I can go over to top with praise. It's this. It's this. All right. Aria is roaming the streets witnessing the horror. The rebel falling all around her. She nearly gets trampled by the crowd. Is we cut between her and the hound both getting beaten brutally Ari gets up and she swept away by the crowd again while the puts a dagger through Gregor's head it still doesn't kill him. So the hound takes him over the edge of the tower into the fire below and what a poetic end what a beautiful in for the hound. He gets the two things I think he wants out of life, which is the mountain and death. It's a perfect end Gregor. And I was so sucked up. This the first time. I was watching the door. Yeah. Them about the when the and went in for his trademark prints Ober. And gal jam like, oh, go bad. This is like this is like I'm not prepared for this kind of like the hound dying. Okay. But like him failing to kill the mountain. And then so like ends up with heat. He stabs as I just love the symmetry between his brother poke in one of his eyes out and hint stab and his brother through the head poke in his eye out the hound realizing what he has to do tack through the wall five hundred five hundred feet into your raging inferno. That's just. Yeah. That's how you can tie up a character arc right there. I agree. So John's a John's out there still in this chaos and starts to die down. So he tells everyone fallback plus they start listening to him. Again. Also, the wildfire is going off. I think that's really why you saying. Around. Also like he's also seen that. There's interesting shots were John seeing the Lancaster soldiers like aerobics trying to save civilians and ushering. And then like, I mean, they do a great job at telling his story to wars. Hell don't get don't if you take. If you take men and women, and you train them to affectively override the base human impulse of how shout not kill. I mean, this is why you really got to be careful. Let slip in the dogs of war. Because this is what happens man like, maybe not a big percentage of happens. Maybe like depending on the morals of the society that they're fighting. But like. This will always always happen war crimes and atrocity will always always happen on both sides of any conflict because this is just not human. This is this is this is a prime. This is our appreciative part of our lizard brains that you're letting off the Lieshan and did doesn't matter. Good or bad. It's it's it's terrible to see. I thought this bills very Martinus to as Martin is much more confirmed pacifist than than I am. And it's clear in his writing. He just pours warfare. So aria wakes up. Covered in dust and rubble having survived the attack, but just barely she chokes away through the streets trying to help people escape while avoiding falling buildings and dragon fire. This is a nice scene here where he's trying to help these people desperately to get out of this house. And you talked about this renaissance painting of the hound of the mountain on the stairs. There's yet another one here where she walks into these. These people this place where they're huddled looking for protection. And it's I mean, it is it's a renaissance painting. It's beautiful. And it's frightening. And it's scary and Oreo tries to get them out of there. And she fails she she gets she she's forced to abandon them in order to save yourself. It's funny because on the the game of thrones revealed, or whatever is a clipper maisy Williams says about these scenes because we talked about the rubble we talked about the fire. We talked about the rocky writer, Dan, but she says. What was the direct quote, something along the lines of thought, I had written down something along the lines of you know, we try to trick to audience into believing Arias dead, but audiences too smart for that. Then why bother trying you are cutting this thing together like then? So so is this the show admitting that they're treating us like idiots if we're too smart for it? But they do it. Anyway. Or is it them saying that they think will figure out that she didn't die because we're smart enough to know that I shouldn't die felt they felt a little bit like a confession. I mean, a lot of that thrones revealed stuff really felt like a confession as in. We don't really know what we were thinking more. But you know, this the double DS have a long history of me of like saying bizarre things on these shows like clearly having Jamie, rapes Hersi, and then be like consensual, and then have something happen. It's supposed to be dark side. But it's like understandable for my perspective or like here. You know, what they said about Dany just decided to make a personal? I mean, I man. I'm super inclined to give people the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. About misspeaking as a podcast. You're sure where where you know. We've been going to hours here. There's probably a lot that I've said that all all come to realize. Oh, yeah. I should've word that differently. However, that's not what they're doing with thrones revealed there. I don't assume that they sit down going. Okay. Bring on any question. We haven't seen these questions or anything. I assume they know what they're going to be talking about. And they should have their heads on straight. When they're speaking about it. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's complete chaos onset of those things. Maybe like it is here. Jamie and see get into the dungeons underneath keep I guess their scape is completely blocked by rebel in every direction. He realizes she's finally realizes she's completely fucked. And she begs anyone and everyone not to let her baby die. And then the entire keep falls in. Their heads. As Jamie tries to comfort her calmer down. I again, I people said this to good for see this wasn't like, but the thing is like I want to defend thrones a little bit because thrones always been about what is realistic and all too often people that committed Tross ities. I mean, what can you do? What can you do to person? It's been responsible for the death of a million people. That's worth it. There's no Justice there. Yeah. There's like not nothing. Not even what you could devise a million lifetimes and the black acelle of dungeon of the dungeons king's landing could could really bring Justice to search reducing her to this pathetic mewing character, that's begging Jamie to savor because she can't save herself. And she's fucked all this up, and she's ignored. All this. Like, it's to me as fitting. I even his moment that like Jamie, comforting her what's the point of not like there's a couple of ways they could've done as we've already discussed ride have been on board with this. This isn't this isn't a worst. Episode committed and like just an isolation setting aside all the theories about the Vallon car stuff and the things that we've talked about. And even the way that the weirdly the show is foreshadowed now like I remember last season a lot of people's eyebrows raised when they introduced map row thrown. And you know, one is like if void split their podcasts. You don't know what the Vallon car theory is? But there is a prophecy. As part of that thing that would Witold, sir. See where she said, you know, you'll have three kids and all have golden hair, and they'll have golden shrouds, and then the Queen more beautiful, you replacer, the final stands of that was then the valid car, which is of high Valerian for little brother will come and wrap his fingers around your throat and choked life for from you and last season the had the map painted up and see was standing on the neck of west rose and Jamie was standing on the fingers the part of the west coast that the little fingers from called the fingers and people I done deal. He's the little brother. And it's going to do it. And they don't have to pay off the Vallon car stuff. It's just to me that they didn't. It's odd to me that they had all that kind of foreshadowing the show itself. And then they just zig. It's not the worst thing. It's just this is fine. I think it's horsh it the way Jamie guy here, and it seems like there was better better ways to go. But they seem like a lot of things that they came down today. Just want to subvert everything. Yeah. I agree. And that might be a problem. The Martin has to like a satis satisfy character arcs eventually to stops averting. Because if you keep subverting the knows nothing makes sense everything's arbitrary and random. I'm inclined to say in this moment. This idea of the valid car theory coming true with the cast what the fuck keep coming down all around him and dragon fire from every direction and the mad Queen none of that matters anymore in that moment. Right. I don't like how led up to it. I basically everything about what they did Jamie's character. But in that moment like he's gonna stick a knife. Or as he's back. I get some kind of prophecy that wasn't even in the show 'isolation great in for them both. Well, I think in the moment, I think you have to almost isolate this scene from the rest of the episodes. Yes. Which completely undermines care? Yeah. But in the scene, there's no point in him killing anymore, and you know, whatever residual love is still there after she betrays him, and he leaves her and goes to fight for the living and comes back whatever's left shows through, and I think that's fine in that moment. So then. Also, I do like the, Jamie. Another prophecy. Not not quite as clear of prophecy. More of just like Jamie said, but it comes true to die in the arms of the woman. He loves that happens. That's pretty nice moment. And then we go to aria waking up from her trauma yet again and stumbles out into the street where she comes face to face with the white horse, and she rides it straight out of the episode. People said this is like the pale the death right in the pale horse. That makes no sense to me because now are is not the personification of death in the scene. Yeah. I saw a lot of people saying she was. I mean, just like symbol of death literally people dying because she looks like a dead person. Because. Dep-? I think of something that's dangerous and deadly. And I don't think I think Danny I don't think a person's victim. No. And aria was essentially victimizes entire episode. I agree with you. I I've seen people saying she's off to actually killed any now. And that's like she's definitely the top list of people you'd suspect of killing Danny for. Sure. Right. And that's why they're proclaiming her as death. But that we're well. Okay. But isn't that weird because it's also kind of like. Completely undoes the character progress you had this episode though, like she's going to go back to preserve to pursue engines. Yeah. I mean, it sort of lessens the hounds speech to her. But also, there's this white horse that this child is carrying around this whole episode, and you can see a burnt to a crisp at the end of it. So what does that say about this horse? I was thinking like the me that tells me that this is Arias chance to reclaim if not her innocence like some some life beyond just vengeance. I thought that the symbolism for it was just like, you know, white is very pure righteous collar. Peaceful color, and that she has chosen a life that she can lead and has some kind of actual life to beyond death versus just pursuing pursuing vengeance onto her own death. So. You know, it's fine. Like, I said this is like if you're looking for to foreshadowing, here's the people like to ask falling snow just like we saw Danes vision of the undying and we saw the dragon shadow just like in brands dream vision. And yes, they did check off all those boxes. But I hope if you've made it this far, and you probably haven't if you're people that hated are take I hope at least we've explained why it didn't work for us. And we've used real reasons, and we've talked about it from the Matic and filmmaking perspective and from plot from character development, and you can disagree with this. But please, please please don't say this just because we are disappointed in didn't end the way we wanted to because gosh, I've wasted an hour and forty nine minutes of all of our time. If that's the takeaway on if you're like most people you have in your home, just a single solitary router desperately trying to pump out bits for your entire house. Unfortunately, this model just doesn't work for our high band world WI fi dead spots and weak signals can cause terrible. In your favorite games and stuttering and buffering while watching your favorite shows IT pros of solve this problem for years by deploying a distributed system, multiple overlapping access points at considerable effort and expense. But now with Eero, you can install an enterprise grade wifi system in your home faster. Did narrates turns to the dark side. Simply download the app on your Iowa's or Android device and walk you through each step of the process. It's quick easy. And painless unlike the average death on game of thrones with the era system, you get Euro, Plus which is a suite of powerful automated security tools offer, you total network protection, you can block militias content across your entire site. It checks ascites visit against a database of millions of threats keeping you and your family from accidentally visiting a malicious site it also outta medically tags content that violent illegal adult giving you control over what your family can access right from the euro app. It also gets rid of annoying and intrusive ads. They've also partnered with third parties offer sophisticated VP and services password management. And antivirus protection best of all euro updates it self automatically, you're constantly protected. From the latest internet threats euro provided me with an era base and beacon pair unit to test in my home. My home is nearly one hundred years old and has lots of room separated by thick plaster and masonry and has been notoriously difficult to get signal throughout the house. I went from unblocks into a fully functional mesh network in less than twenty minutes. I was very impressed with their app they gave specific guidance for placement of the devices and was able to run a series of self test. Check the set up and give advice to improve my coverage and speeds, if you want full coverage high-speed ultra secure wifi network that you never have to think about again, it's easy euro as offering our listeners one hundred dollars off the Eero base unit in two beacons package with one year of Eero. Plus, just visit euro dot com slash GO, tea, and at checkout enter geo t once again, that's Eero E r dot com slash GO, tea and energy OT at checkout. Here's a snare for you. It's late on Sunday. You've watched the final episode of game of thrones. And you've got to need to talk about it with your friends. But how many of you have a ready made set of buddies that has knowledgeable and passionate about thrones. As you that's where we come in. After the final episode airs this Sunday, we'll take to the microphones to discuss the end, which becomes our instant take. But did you know, we also record an extended version live which features a discussion of the episode with the bald move community. The catch is you have to be a club member to watch listen and participate, but it's easy to sign up. Just go to club that bald move that com where you can see all the premium features club memberships grants, and you can start a free thirty day trial. Joining the after thrones conversation at club dot, bald move dot com. Okay. Let's go to let's go to feedback. What do you think about that? Can you talk to every? Okay. Let's get the feedback. We still have we a lot of feedback in the episode. Also, you know, we got nine hundred plus pieces of feedback. But like these big typically, they kind of cluster there's definitely a curve where people although it is funny. How when you have is division like all the emails take on strident tone of like, I've got the one valid take of this episode and everyone else's Rog. And there's a lot of people like, you know, subject lines. You must read this onto like, okay? All right. Tell me what I must. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I like that just about as much to people to say edit this Email to be read on the air as as you wish them. Oh, I get the sixteen paragraph. Yeah. It to'real decision on the podcast. That's cool. I'm glad. Oh, yeah. All right. Josh L. Again, sin feedback to game. Thrones appalled. Move dot com. Josh. Oh, I love the idea fan bankruptcy. All Levin chapters of it. But now that we've moved further into fan and destitution I have some name suggestions, which we ask for the spoiler edition fan foreclosure devoted default down. Now, devote ease audience insolvency or show skinned which is I don't I've never heard the word skin before it's racist. Is probably is. No, I have no idea. I kind of like the idea of insolvency because that says more than just bankruptcy, right? That's like the end of the line fan for for foreclosure two or you're taking away their phantom bankruptcy. You get to keep your house foreclosing. It's like now you get nothing. You've you're you're gonna sleep under dad's couch. Now also has the litter. Literally, the alliteration angle not the literacy, I'm illiterate. Apparently, I liked the idea that yet you're now sleep on your dad's couching is very disappointed in. Oh, yeah. This is he told you? This is going to happen you eight seasons in the game of thrones. Or you're going to you're going to get your fan foreclosed on and you didn't listen. And and now now you got to put up with his bullshit moving onto Peter G. After the long night episode became concerned about half and bankruptcy was affecting your show. This is most evident after last week's last stark would instant castles pretty positive. However, two main podcasts most of its time being critical. What I thought was mostly positive on the episode. Okay. Yeah. But I was so here's the here's that the true t I wanted to give the show the benefit out on the last arc thing. Because. I'm actually tried to be aware of my biases as much as possible. And anytime that the show's zigging where I'm expecting to zagging I try to account for that. So on special instant take, I don't wanna come out guns blazing. And look like a dumb ass. So I try to be a little bit more measured. This episode all like, I talked about this podcast. But first forty five minutes you, and I both I think were like rationalizing every single thing. We're watching. But then we got to Dany, and then we got the year on like no fucking way man loss go away so guilty as charged. I guess I found many things about this episode problematic. But it seemed to me like Iran was so upset that much of his house seemed flippant and checked out again guilty as charged. I mean, we were angry in that moment, certainly raged quit during the red wedding. When I was reading it like, it was it took me a while to come back and be like, okay. I got reinvest myself in the story because there's still a lot of it left. It's obviously harder to do that on the last chapter then midway through the saga. But but that's what I'm trying to battle with. I was relieved listening to display their podcasts Aron various reflected on how close you can beat to the material how it's hard to be a fan and have a business reliant on that fandom still keep your perspective enjoyed this podcast, and it's Archer perspective. But now we've got the mad Queen and the bills does anybody find it ironic that cell? Sell several people calling us out like on our our business angle on this. And I'm like, what do you mean? Calling. You said this whole thing is bullshit as I would've smart business owner does about the product. No, you it's short term the best bet. And this is the shortest of terms the season short-term best bet to always love thing. Right. Hands are looking to be talked into it long-term, honest opinion on this stuff long-term. It's it's it's not the smart play. Because people like, you know, once the spells broken. They don't trust you because. Yeah. Like, here's the thing about bulb move. And we've been doing this for eight plus years going on ten next year. I don't know that's possible. But yes, we don't we don't we don't calculate. We don't triangulate. We don't think of what's like when it comes to a takes don't think about what's best for business because what's best for businesses. Always to bullshit and blow sunshine up asses and said short-term. Yes, we're on what's best for businesses. Honesty trust in your audio. Especially our business where rely on the generosity and support our fans that see value in telling it like it is because. Yeah, you know, I mean, I cannot stress enough go back and listen to all of our Walking Dead stuff. We've heard some of the first people to turn on this show. And look where that thing went it went off the fucking rails. And every week. You've got Chris Hardwick who is the pit ame- of short term business decision. Apparently spouting off about how great it is. And how amazing decisions are and everybody else looking at it going what show are you watching? And you know, that's the thing is like game of thrones got to the end before in my opinion, the wheels fell off so angry. But still before Danny broke, the wheels fall off, she is broke all know. All right. Keep on interrupting Peter to build two point. I agree with you take bridge agreeing with me, I think the episode of some real problems for sure, However, I think is the worst episode ever. They should have done much better job. The overall reaction feels the elect to read wedding, which we've discussed already we're upset and nothing seems rational theories have been disproved opportunities for visible lost. My guess is with Dany leaving west rose when she learns various Tyrian Santa all know John's lineage that that was her final straw. She has no one except grey worm to trust. And she said, she's unloved and west rose. I think she decided to health west rose burn them on let them always remember and fear, the dragons and east it'd be ironic of John ends up having to break oath and killed Danny something Jamie did never live down. And yet the doubles the double DS say not premeditated. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like I said the lot of the stuff where you lose barest and sell me, you'll lose Giora you'll lose sandy like Oliver true. Blue there from the beginning fellows have gone by the wayside. And now all she has left. Her these foreigners that she can't fully trust. Again. They really did in retrospect find job like man, I really wonder if this had seven episodes eight episodes like if they couldn't have. Clearly, they squared a circle for a lease some people. I think they had another beat or two or. Took the time to really sweat out. How they could make Dany turn still. I just I just wish they just wish they'd done a better just done a better job. And again, I it is like, you know, Peter, it's like as you're saying that should've done better job for sure. Yeah. This is the most expensive most lavishly funded most everything HBO give them everything they wanted. They just didn't come up with anything better. And it's a shame moving on the Ryan, I was certainly angry after long episode. I just couldn't get over how stupid the battle tactics decisions of this protagonists were but on a scale perspective. I thought Danes decision to burn king's landing was meagerly justified. Every other section the realm had been burned by this war for succession, why not armies and the citizens of the capital two point of fact, the last army's got fucking torched last season. Certainly they had a coming their way as much as anyone. It's a terrible waste and tragedy. Badeni decided stabbed clear dominance over west rose with fear to make the world fear. What she has felt. Yeah. I mean, they got they almost rounded home. They to me. They got called out. They got thrown out. They didn't they didn't get the home base. But that's the problem is that's a big deal. You get across home base score. You get tagged out at the plate. You don't win. It's very binary thing. You don't give credit for like, oh, gee, they got ninety nine point nine nine of the way to Homebase tagged them out by an inch. Do I get seventy five percent of our own. No, you get a lot of this stuff works. You just don't know. If you don't get it. One hundred percent of the way there you don't get credit for any of it. He moves onto Jamie, and sir see the beautiful really romantic thing for seeing Jamie that no one asked for of course. But it was fitting for them having had it. I wouldn't wish it for any other way, you ask for impetus for towns, look at king landing, but why not Jamie, aren't they still human terrible as they are. No, their death as profoundly human moment and a testament to their epic love for one another in his twisted and perverse world that has denied them their love for better or worse. No. I was not rooting for Walter white in the end of breaking bad. I am absolutely not sympathetic in any way towards Hersi. No, all right. Like like evil like me. No, maybe Hitler cried. As he poisoned his dog and blue evoke ins bring, but you know, what tough luck partner. I wish I would only wish there was a fucking hell that you could burn in. So I I recognize that this is a very game of thrones, the humanize them and show them like to show that moment. But okay, that's. Yeah. That's. If the other problem, I think that George has a head of him to if you ever finishes these books is maybe do subvert to the end. But then is it cool to the leave your fans dejected and unsatisfied like, I guess, that's the kind of thing, I think can only be judged in retrospect. Over the course of time. I think you need some distance from it, you need to say, okay. What is the story? He's trying to tell here was it successful or not, and you can sort of get away from how you feel about the thing and more just like how did it work overall? The trouble here is I don't think they I think like I said, I think in the instant take George has a huge opportunity here. He's seen the reaction to what are presumably the outlined. Bullet point of how this thing is going to end he seen a poor execution leading up to it. He has the opportunity to be the fucking hero of the day. Yeah. Become out these books. Tell the story right? And I'm on board with Danny torturing the city, I'm on board with Danny becoming the evil mad Queen. Yeah. I actually this is something I was going to say for the spoiler edition because it's more books, but like I'm actually little bit more bullish on the books because I do think that a lot of this is right off Georgia's bullet points like Dany touring mad Queen and this the Starks become the stark me. In becoming too rapist and pillagers like this is so fucking Martin. And just with just with few smart small tweaks that this could be so much so much better. But his challenge is going to be getting on with it. Because he the double d started, narrowing this world, four seasons ago, Martin still expanding it as a dance of dragons like he's got to somehow turn that corner and tell this fucking story and hit those beats better, but without continuing to garden up even more and even more, and that's the thing. But like, yeah, I if he was kind of like wincing and seeing how people would react to this story. I think it's very encouraging because no one saying it's total bullshit like I wonder the people that have gotten like Kalisa tattoos and named their daughters. See like how this feels like it's so Martins in a really tough position here because he can't say, well, well, maybe maybe hold off on the collegiate tattoos and children until jersey the whole thing Shershukov, you can't do. That right. Sure. So like other than those people that have gone crazy them. I I don't think there's many people saying just outright. There's no way Dany falls at a dark side. So to new thing I'm most afraid of. And if I'm getting thumbs up on that. I just need to finesse it to me this. If this doesn't get him off the pot and finishing winds of winter. I don't know what the fuck will get wins a winner within a year. I don't think we'll ever get it. All right. Sean has a question is the iron throne gone. I feel the one constant a series it symbolizes quite a bit in a story. And even the advertising the show it was in the red keep so I'd have to say it's crushed and ruined. But I'm sure the right will just make it appear next week. Unblemished will Danny wanna new thrown? I don't know how much the red got destroyed. I mean, the whole thing crumbles in on Jamie, sir. C right from the foundation up. I can't imagine. It's still standing, but they kind of needed to. Property fills parts of it probably got crushed. But like because there's all these weird standalone towers that are too. And which she blasted a couple of those two is like if they if they can't tell the story of someone getting stabbed into gets and dying, right? Then like, I fully believe the red will be ninety percent on damage next. I mean, yeah, they told the story of the rocky getting annihilated not decimated not dim ated. Not just just annihilated. And yet there is as many Raqi charging there ever was and the long night. So the show just does that read keep like, yeah. The iron firm dying offscreen. No fucking way. I'm going to say that Doug L. Maybe the lawyer in me, but I spent some time today pondering Vince of last legs episode and trying to square the circle that is The Danny smash seen. I agree that if it's Danny's turn is the product of her madness taking hold to show didn't really justify because it never clearly articulated. What that last straw that broke the dragons back woes. But perhaps what we saw was not Danny psyche crumbling, but rather a strategic choice. She finds herself essentially wherein libra Theun was desiring thrown with no legitimate basis to knock the rightful heir out of the way. Ridley was until his death relying on his relative popularity over stains to carry the day with the small folk Dany correctly ish suss out that she has only fear. Not love it or disposal had to accept the king's landing surrender. We would she would have won the war. But eventually lost a piece to John wants, his lineage became common knowledge, and that thanks to Santa is inevitable since Danny's only path through to thrown goes through the popular and rightful heir, John. She knows the only way to ensure she remains in power after John is at best sidelined and at worst killed is to deter all challengers with an overwhelming show of force. I might buy that without the surrender. And also does she has to make this calculation thirty fucking seconds. Well in Isa's as I'm to try and figure this out like take take a moment. Try and sit down with John after this is all over after the immediate threat is dealt with and figure out if there's a way around his lineage because John clearly does not want this. The one thing I believe is true. And game of thrones is John will never be king. So. Although now, I think that's like I think it's more likely will be Queen sitting on that throw a hell of a lot of sense John doesn't wanna John zero claim period. Like when the John like John can't get out of this. No matter what that how's he going to get out? If you have kids the throne and just as I I'm not going to do this not going to do it. Then who's left injuring swooping say now, it's almost like injury is in hot. And the other thing like you have to believe the John is not is not being honest here. Maybe this is why the also trying to keep the democracy theory alive because like honestly with only one hour left. It feels like there's no way they're going to have like we're not ready for a day. New may where we see how west rose Mike continue on. Got to get to this. Now, I'm trying to figure out. Yes. Someone's gonna sit the iron throne. It's going to be like Tyrian or John or Santa or something or fucking pawn or knowing that Baronne Brin. I mean, it won't be John John said time and time again, and he's an honorable and truthful man it to his fucking core yet. But they're also saying that the best king is the one that doesn't want it. But it doesn't matter. John's not gonna take it John. You'll see John like at the end of this. I see John like, no he's the north because he had to be he absolutely had to be to save all of humanity. Whereas the threat where is the threat that's going to push him to this kingdom that if somebody else takes the throne besides him, it's going to plunge the realm in the more war. Like, I think that like I see him sitting on the throne wailing old ask Conan sits on the throne at the end of Conan Davar Burien like he's who fits that description though, not injury. It's not it's not aria. None of these people are evil. None of these people have Aaron travel until this episode like what? These people have shown even including bastard from flea bottom. Gonna sit going to going to have sunshine up by some high born Lord everybody who has had a track record of having any potential to do that stuff. All ready dead. There's nobody in the kingdom left to be evil. They'd have to be evil over the course of years, they'd have to turn evil, and we don't have time to tell that story. John's not gonna sit on the throne. John doesn't have the pressure that he had when he became the king in the north having a lot of faith that the double DS aren't going to just have. Well, come in and say, yeah, that's fair. I can't I can't say what butchery they're going to do. He'll start barking like a dog and fair. And they'll say, oh, yeah. John was actually always always wanted to be king behind the thrones realm season back in and the off show, and he'll be sitting on the iron phoned away. Jamie Lancaster was when dead star comes in. And that'll be John. It has a son like in the first episode. You were to sign that. I was stark. And now, you're confer. Thank you. And then they get the lick each other's face. And yeah, I said each other's it's going to get weird. It's going to get weird. You wanted to see? It's goodbye say weird. You say weird. People say Tuesday. All right, Jeannie. See never emailed you guys before. But after listening to instant take on the bills, I was disappointed to hear rally negative. Reactions were sorry about that. Just be an honest. Do I tend to agree with many of the criticisms regarding staging plow holes jet packing cetera? But I do find him able to separate to show from the books and accept it. As a very simplified version of Martin's vision, I can't help. But feel like I watched the worst case scenario play before my eyes, I found a devastating. But it was so game of thrones. If like watching Ned stark being executed, the red wedding and so much more. I was the most absolute devastation possible from just one tar Garin dragon. The last thing I wanted to see was for deigned become the villain. But I feel like it made since she was driven to the brink by the death of Reagan and the execution sandy. But the final nail in the coffin was John's rejection her love for John was her achilles heel when she had won the battle and the bills are ringing. I saw broken woman winning was no longer enough her decision that moment came from very dark place and showed that like Jon said if you use those dragons. Castles and burn cities. You're no different. Ultimately, she is just as bad associ-. I don't know this feels like something George Martin would. Right. I I agree with you Ginny to this point. Like, I there's nothing that except for the nail of the coffin being John's rejection because there's literally like two days between that. And there is a scene where Tyrian begged for mercy for king's landing which was granted. And then she wins. An I that's that's. Like, I would like to hear splitter addition someone to clearly articulate a through point for that. That does not does that act that does not rely on a head canon of how you explains all those events like I would have never given that nod if she were not willing to spare these people, right? And that says to me that it was not premeditated. It was all in that moment. And nothing pushed her in that moment the victory in her grasp. Right. And she simply decided not to accept it. And I just don't think it's in her character to like, you know, what these kings landing fucks got off easy. Maybe she does that the search. Maybe does that to the entire red keep grant that? And I think that and that's the thing. I don't understand why that's not enough islander stand oral show. The other thing is like arable thing to do because even more point. Because like what if she does that to the red keep and still incites grey worm like, she was going to burn the civilians by her own people misinterpret her actions, so then. Got you got the exact same exact same in game. It just worst. And you I mean, you can go as far as you want. What that could have already escaped the red. Keep have been all for not. She's destroyed these innocent people and got enough. No closer to her goal. Right. The her just being like just being psychopathic. It doesn't. It does not satisfying to me. Anyway, she continues biggest disappoint was Jamie's return to see. But I did see more to see more redemption. Ark. You know what? I think we're done. I don't think we need to we've talked enough about. She's just going to agree with us on seeing Jamie. Let's strike it from a record. Okay. Thank you for that. Ginny. Let's move on to tear J Danny stories always been one of how far she will take vengeance. And those who have temperature along the way time she went mad, but it was masked by or need for retribution as an audience. I don't know that I agree with that. I would like to I would like to be given example of the time. She went mad and the only reason excuses excuses because we agreed with her vengeance. Like, that's like, she's either justified or she's not, you know. Yes. Facetious wasn't asshole. But she had him executed simply for being an asset. Never feel bad about it. Did she know there were many reasons to have him executed? Yeah. The least of which is selling her off into sexual slavery. And I think that the reason she got she begged from the beasts the be spared until he kicked the door in the cow. Drag owes drogue owes house directly. Threatened her and her unborn child. And demanded he be taken across the narrow sea right then and there like that's not being just an asshole. Okay. Like that s- committee. Cutting somebody off in traffic and then giving them the finger, right? There was same for the true masters of young guy, the cows and marine. I just don't agree all those were very bad people like Nazi level bad people the cows the cat. Oh, so she could meekly submit to living in a big tent with all the other Krones and being raped the death or she can walk outside. And you're like that's a that's not immoral an immoral choice. She made. She slaughtered did not necessarily because they're bad people because they didn't respect and love her in the way, she thought they should I think there's a tinge of that in some of the things Danny for sure I will agree that there is a tinge of that. 'cause I think it's all that. It didn't come from nowhere for sure part of this version song of ice and fires. Given us was telling fantasy stories at the here's our flawed conquers or fucked up individuals or not strong. They're strong enough to keep challenges at bay with all the people that have temper Danny in the past Giora me Berson and miss Andy. Now dead. No, one could swear from our worst impulses. Is any surprise things ended up the way they did again Tyrian who I thought did sway her from her worst dome? Pulse. One last time and she managed to succeed. Oh, it's like it's not surprising that ended up. It's just there. There was one more beat waiting. Yes. And it could have been glorious, right? But that's an important beat. That's the difference between me differently Hansel shooting. I and shooting second. Yeah. Oh, man. That's is such a good comparison. Like you like if Jim pulls a gun out right now and points at me, and I have a gun shooting back. I didn't murder him. Offended my life. And it's just as more of a CIA choice as letting him kill me. You know, like. Dan, Thomas, E Dany stated multiple times. So Thomas was going to try to lay out a argument for Danny being mad Queen Danny's Tatum anytime. She's destined rule. Agreed. She sees her victories, a foregone conclusion. Agreed the steadfast belief in victory causes her to see over setbacks caused our enemies. Agreed. She sees the devotion, the freed slaves have those freed them as devotion to her because of her destiny and moral superiority. Yeah. Yeah. I agree that this causes her to see to distrust of the northerners as treason. Yup. This caused the failure of the people kings lane to take the city for her like, the slaves did marinas treason. Okay. This is. This is where I'm starting to what wait what failure the failure that people kings take the city for her. Wait. What failure the the the failure of people eat what failure? In my wrong. The bells ringing, the people of Kingsland did take the city. Here's the other thing is you're acting like the people of marine some of these things like Danny had built up a history of freeing, these people like I trick the masters asked a poor and burnt them with their dragons and still the army's then she broken and secret and killed all the like security and flung open the gates, and the people did they're like they she didn't just camp outside the fucking walls and say free yourselves like der was helping assistance and understanding that she was there to save them. Not. Oh, Jesus crisis woman's got giant dragon. She's going to kill us. All you have to show the enslavers are vulnerable before the slaves can rise up against them. So we're at worry butting heads Thomas. Let's see how we go here. John can I have a claim because she is destined to rule. So the claim is ally. I don't think that's in the text that Danny thinks that this is bullshit. I think that's her first reaction. But like, I think that she believes that John is telling the truth, you think Danny thinks a no no she did think it was a lie. She would have no problem with this secret getting out. So here's a here's where I think the head Kenneth starting to spin out of control my opinion, Thomas she thinks that John is being tricked by Santa brand and Sam she's already declared the tar lease as her enemy. She will never believe his word. Does believe the word win wouldn't care about this secret that isn't isn't true. Like what she found out that Sam was tardy. She felt guilt. She kinda felt guilty embarrassed. Like, again, her first reaction was like all that bullshit. Oh, he would say that. He's I don't know. Like, some of the stuff feels I think they played that beat where she's like, can you really trust your best friend best friend. Yeah. But then everything after that, this is the show not tell part of it everything that she does after that says she believes claim it's real and she's got a fight back against it. And if it gets out to the people of the kingdom, they will support John instead of her because he has a better claim. That's EV all of that is on the screen. John those troops. We does not supporter and keeping a secret. She believes this is so obvious ally. That the only reason John could have spread this is treason. I to me like, I think you're right in that. She sees John spreading as treason, but. It's like it's not because it's a lie. It's because he she saw it as an inevitable outcome his action and he couldn't lie to his family. Yes. So it's a slight difference there. But I think it's going to be a huge difference in where he build up to your idea here. There's conspires crown Jon Dudas claim claims she believes the lie. He gets cares. Okay. She serious suspects hearing as a traitor now, especially after told various the lie about John's claim. Yup. She gives them warmer chance and listens to his begging to call off the tack if she hears the bells of the city later Tyrian fills freeze Jamie, she's already declared, Jamie. Trader Jamie is free at night. And the battle happens in the morning. She knows and freed his brother now, she sees here in his freighter to why would she know that? Yeah, anyway, and this is an assumption that you're making, and we don't know how late at night, Jayme. The Tyrian visited all this like this is all in your head. This is not on the screen. So when she hears the. Dell's part of a plan from someone she now sees a traitor. She feels justified knowing the plan seeming lack of resistance of the people of king's landing to stop, sir c tells her that they support and they stop seeing the population kings landings innocence their enemy now. So and he can this as well supported by the series. I think I just showed three or four instances where you are. Making perhaps logical inferences, but things that are not in the script or not on the screen. They're things that you are injecting to make this head cannon work, which is fine. If I I'm fine with putting head cannon in there to explain things that are working, but this is not working for me. So I'm not extending that that benefit. Moving on, Sean regarding John snow. What's the point of having an annoying Paladin character, if he's just going to make it self righteous opinion hurt all the time, except when we actually need to hear it that he say more than two lines in this episode and his best thirty John snow, bro. Got is my Queen. And don't that girl. Even if it was only turned down by Danny a real protests from John reminding her about a true goals would have moved the emotional needle for me. Yeah. Honestly, I would love to hear of her John, and Danny themselves talking about the fact that she's aunt because it seems like that's the thing that's broken down their relationship and. Just say, you're my Queen. You're my Queen. You're my Queen. The haven't honest conversation about how this has changed and how to talk this through like something, man. I don't know. Jesus. How many how many skyler Walter white back and forth we see in nature there. Latief ship change over asking too much to have one of those conversations about how this not affects political chances. But how it affects how John feels and how she feels about John. Okay. Connor was I alone and getting serious Highlander vibes in a bowl that was promised visually with the hand in the mountain battling out on the spire at the broken outer-wall, Danny swooping in and drove on in the background giving sky visible from the spire this Ethridge glow of oranges and purples reminded so much of the curb battle and Highlander one. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you pick up any of this? I mean, I wasn't thinking Highlander, but sure why not the pe- I wrote in last week and planning that the Jamie had fucked and chucked Bryanne, which fell totally out of character. You thought we said the wait and see what happened this episode because Jamie may be going to kill. Now that we know that he generally left on north returned to search side. How do you judge storyline at Bryn? We haven't. Okay, she about this aspect of it. The biggest victim here. I think it's completely pointless. Jamie's relationship with Brienne was among the show's most beautiful and subtle for years. And suddenly the writers took a sledgehammer to it. They had Jamie, treat Buran like dirt taking her virginity than ditching her the next day, then made it clear episode that he's all about search and search alone. Yeah. Dude or lady. I. Jamie goes and kill certainty, and he dies, and it gets back to Bryn like that that doesn't devastate her because I think she puts into together and figures it out here. She's just going to hurt the no the man that she loved the MandA took her virginity the man that knighted her the man that she had turned from thinking, he's a monster and a king slayer oath breaker to this paragon of virtue. And so no, no, he's just a shitter you knighted by one of the worst fucking. You're you're knighted by drug addict whose addict who's drug of choice was bucking. Search lancaster. Yeah. No. It's I mean, it does injustice to Brin as an intelligent woman. It does injustice to Jamie. As I don't think double night, it doesn't hurt brand's character. 'cause she's blameless. She had no way angry that this was going to happen. Yeah. Okay. That's fair. But man, it just fucks everything about that relationship that I thought was beautiful. Yeah. It's a real and exciting four brand as a character. And and what it does to Jamie is potentially even worse. And I'm like, I'm like, sir. See below the red key. Like, I always wanted to be Abry and Jamie Shea shipper, but not like this not like this Cleese, Jamie. Don't let this relationship dialect this David, David, Jamie. He's not gonna he got rebelled moving on final Email Ernest t I know Aaron wrote a couple of books on religions a west coast, but we have any material on the mythical creatures of west roasts as I saw on light up king's landing I couldn't help but wonder if he was going to ever run out of fuel seemed like he had an endless supply. I know this is very true. Trivial considering what happened in this episode, but a bug the crap out of me, especially on rewatch. Now, I'm curious dragon anatomy has been explored anywhere else in fantasy literature. Just curious. What your thoughts are? I mean in this series dragons are fire made flesh, and they are Madge almost demi-god kind of magical beings. And thus they're kind of exempt from the laws of thermodynamics. So it it bothered me a little bit in like, you know, like, gee whiz. This guy seems like he's got infinite info ammo, whereas all this whereas all this fire coming from. But it's magic. So I think there there's a the chemical processes akin to like a fusion reactor or the amount of energy output is sort of. On that scale with the master you input. Yeah. To wear and they have these dragons have normally large abdomens. I assume it's all just sacks of chemicals that are combined full hydrogen there. That's how they fly to the right, right? Every time they shoot fire. They get a little bit heavier or they get a little bit lower. It's harder to fly. If they lose all that hydrogen inside them all that charred Goten and various meat they break that down into hydrogen. Okay. Yeah. They they an oxygen. The human body and assume presumably goat bodies two or three quarters water. That's nothing but hydrogen oxygen you put those together. That's that's that's a fuel and accelerate. What we what we say in the fire start in business. So the dragon math checks out on. Yeah. They also have the added bonus of if you get enough dragons on the planet, you don't eat plants anymore process. Water and oxygen who needs that that carbon dioxide stuff? So we still have another podcast everyone because I you know, I tried to articulate points. I tried to consider some thought reasonable points from the people that are not seeing our way we can continue talking about that. Because I would love to be talked into this making sense. We can also talk in on Friday like, you know, what this means for the books like what this means for George Martin. It'd be interesting of George has something to say. Like, he's a he hasn't really commented since the death Charene. Maybe that's like, you know, he made that statement of well the books are going to be different from the series. And he doesn't have to revisit that. But it'd be interesting to see if he s something in the in the days to come. I'd be to see if you guys have something to say. Because that's another thing. We're talking about our business incentive. I wrote books that probably had done a lot better had game of thrones be universally beloved and the end they'd have much fatter tail but also. My running partner. Anthony, we both had like two fan theories that we kind of like. You kinda wrote up especially for the book. I did my democracy in west rose. He actually did something surprise me. Which was a argument for Dany turning into the mad king Queen. So it's like it actually if they had told that story like God damn that would've looked like a genius fucking prediction and really well argued and sourced and not just from the tomes. But from like, you know, like, the political and religious history Degeorges is drawing from it would have been just just just dandy if they had told the story correctly or one that like, and it's not just me. That's the other thing if it was just me, and Jim and like ninety percent of people are like, you guys are fucking stupid. And you weren't watching episode. I feel better about it. But it's only like forty percent of people telling me that online. And I don't know. I just I I don't know if this is going to be a sopranos or more of like a lost or more of I'm trying to think of one like Recco Walking Dead or more and more people like wake up to the idea that there was some problems here all along. I don't know. I wanna see next episode. I wanna see what they do. I'm prepared to come back and sort of judge this season quickly after the fact, and yeah. You know, I I don't think they can do anything to salvage this episode and potentially not even the entire end of game of thrones. I think they can give some characters some good moments from here on out yet. I'm really seeing. Honestly, I really wanna see the bitter sweet I've seen the bidder. And like if you have back like early episode four to get any sweet like, oh, well, you know, what? Sam God Gilly pregnant. They're probably going to be happy. Ghost got to live out a happy life with his best. Boy, good boy pucker up with torment. Like, I don't know. If that's what I consider because this is so far just really dark and bidder. So let's talk about it on spoiler addition on Friday game of thrones a bulb move dot com. Get that feedback in. Until then I may round gin.

Danny Danny Mike Tyrian Saul John Terry Jamie Dany Tyrian Jim it king HBO Jamie Laister George Martin Dan he Ned Lancaster John Williams west rose Varis John Jamie Tyrians