20 Episode results for "Sandro"

Moment of the Day (2/20/20)

Boomer & Gio

01:14 min | 1 year ago

Moment of the Day (2/20/20)

"Mother so ruckers didn't get it done but you had the big win for Seton Hall last night which meant a frantic final call the great Gary Cohen. Who of course handled it like the pro? He catches fire he added one in. Coleman went with Sandro. The past negative doing joining new Mama. Taylorsville it'd be the only one left of the via Johnston Tacoma. It's time to go would still be there. Yeah it's alright. We lost to beat up on him. He takes it. Well he's a good deed. Here it over forget about it toll. Shire's allow all right Chris stuff. We'll see you tomorrow. Yes Sir all right very good Jerry. Recco is GonNa make somebody very happy.

Recco ruckers Seton Hall Johnston Tacoma Gary Cohen Sandro Coleman Jerry Shire Chris
George Gershwin 3: Rhapsody in Blue

Classics for Kids

05:59 min | 8 months ago

George Gershwin 3: Rhapsody in Blue

"Welcome to classics for Kids I'm Naomi Lewin? That's a clarinet playing the famous. Gla Songo and first theme or Melody from George. Gershwin's repeatedly in blue. List Sandro is a combination French and Italian word that means sliding. It describes how instruments. From one note to another. When the first theme returns, it's played by a trumpet with a Wall Mute a Wah Wah Mute looks like a toilet plunger minus the stick, and it's named for the fact that it lets a player make his trumpet go Wa Wa. And that was also the first appearance of the piano playing a different theme. rhapsody in blue was a rabbit that George Gershwin pulled out of his musical hat in a big hurry Gershwin had talked with popular bandleader Paul Whiteman about maybe writing a piano concerto that combined jazz and symphonic music, but they never made any definite plans, or at least that's what Gershwin thought until his brother IRA picked up a newspaper and read that George was writing a jazz concerto for a concert taking place in less than a month. The first theme again this time played by the piano at the point when George. Gershwin heard that he was supposed to be composing a concerto, he was knee deep in writing a new Broadway show, so he said to Paul Whiteman I don't have time for a whole concerto. How about a smaller pieces like a rhapsody? Whiteman said fine, and Gershwin tossed off his rhapsody in about three weeks. A different melody Latin sounding jazzy step a rhapsody is songs, or in this case, themes stitch together and Gershwin came up with some great ones. He originally wanted to call the peace, American rhapsody, but his brother IRA who had a way with words came up with a better idea IRA had just seen an exhibit of paintings by American Artists James McNeill Whistler who gave his work interesting titles like arrangement in black and gray, the real title of the picture. We know as Whistler's mother. Iris said call the piece rhapsody in blue. That's another theme from rhapsody in blue. That's been mostly chugging along in the background. Until now it's kind of amazing. How many different bits of deem Gershwin put into this piece? Here's another one. When Gershwin finished rhapsody in blue, he had no time to write out orchestra parts and decide which instruments to use pretty groping did that. He's the composer who wrote the Grand Canyon Suite with the donkeys. At. The original performance of rhapsody in blue, there was a lot of blank space in the Orchestra score where the piano part should have been because most of it was still in George Gershwin's head. George's brother IRA made another contribution to rhapsody in blue besides the name. George originally meant the whole peace to be fast and Jazzy, but in rehearsal. One day the musicians played the last section to slow IRA convinced his brother that it sounded better like that, and that's the way it stayed. Believe it or not. Here's a banjo part in rhapsody in blue, although it's pretty hard to hear it. This is a spot where you can, though if you listen carefully. Everyone who was anyone in the New York music world came to the first performance of rhapsody in blue, and they loved it. Overnight at the age of twenty five George. Gershwin became a celebrity. When named his brother's piece rhapsody in blue? The word blue referred to the fact that there was jazz in their more about that next time on classics for kids when you can hear other classical music that uses jazz I'm Naomi Newin I write classics for kids and produce it with Tim Lander at WG UC Cincinnati. Please join me again for more classics for kids.

George Gershwin IRA Paul Whiteman James McNeill Whistler Naomi Lewin IRA Naomi Newin Tim Lander Wa Sandro Iris New York Cincinnati three weeks One day
The Sprites of Sprivers

Bedtime Stories With Nennis And Douglas

11:28 min | 1 year ago

The Sprites of Sprivers

"They took notes. Story is cold the sprites of sprinters raid boy. Douglas if you ever go to Horace Mawlana Poll and head North Out of the center of town and into the country. y'All soon come across would right so very special would now just because it's full of magic and magical adventures and adventures that are magical but very special to me because all he was born there though would is is cold spring and I grew up in a cave to the west of the wood with my own Darla an oncle Donald and so I recommend recognize most of what there is to know about sp rivers and does the heart good to know that the people of Horse Mawlana poll still for magic in today on to who falling does much fun as any Sandro. And his sister her severe every couple of weeks whether it be well D- Roy all cold. They liked pot their rucksacks with a ten and blankets hits and food and find a place to camp right in the middle of Split they never normally pick the same place because because half the fun is exploring and finding the perfect place to stay the night must be flat for ten it can't have vinnie rabbit holes and it can't have too many tree branches up above all you're never be able to see the scars. The first job was to set up a ten because if it rained it was important to keep everything Roy and the second job was to lie a fire because it kept you warm orm. Meaning you. Could he up your dinner. And most importantly major shift feels but lighting. A fire is not so then you can just do Ya need to be very careful because once a fire is laid. It doesn't know what to do and doesn't no any rules and so it will just burn up anything. It likes so Sandro. Interfere would always find ten or twelve rocks folks then build them in our little circle and put their wood to burn saw that because fire is no interest in Boden rocks and sold the rocks. which stop it going anywhere? It shouldn't so tonight after the circle of rocks had been built an off off to their foam draw in middle and after they'd safely let it to form a nice little warm fire. They began to cook their dinner of vegetables. Jew But stay start pouring the steaming stew into their special metal campaign balls else using their special metal campaign spoons. They noticed some small flashing green lights in the dark Bush's all set Sandro. The Pew sets of Beer now. There was nothing to worry about really but Sandra fear were right to be cautious. It was the bills and the bills. Were the SPRITES OF SP rivers now. When all he was a little dragon are used to be scared by the bills? But there's only grew a little bit older. I realized they were nothing to be afraid of the buell's where simply the guardians of the would the ones who made sure it was always safe so even though they could often be little pitch cheeky. You didn't have to worry about awesome. Unless she will harming their would and of course well apart from accidentally setting a tree on fire. We're always sneezed. All you never date date. Sandra and severe had met the Buell's several times before hello sets a fear. There's nothing often to worry about. It's only US Sandra and severe the Beatles. Well that must have been about fifty of the little things started making aching and had noise and they sprung out of the Bush and started buzzing around the fire. They're worried about the fire said Sandra Gendreau. Oh don't worry BUELL's said severe. It's a safe fire. Look we've made a circle of rocks so it can't escape the BUELL's both physically around the rocks inspecting them and we just use the fire to make our dinner and keep us warm. Would Hugh likes him. Dinner said severe. All of a sudden the Buell sculpt step in a boat with themselves to the ground and stared at severe the two most senior Buell's group grip and web stepped forward and looked Asandra and severe. Curiously Oss sure said Sandro. Here her troy. Some STU it's made from vegetables from Mommy and Daddy's garden sangro Porto a small amount of stu onto onto a plate and put it on the ground before grip and web or they walk towards it snapped and then dipped in there tiny green fingers and tasted immediately. They both leapt up into the air and start a buzzing around in the trees like a couple of tiny racing cars. Oh dear sets of fear how her them and then both bills return to the ground and jeopardy soy tiddly to the others suddenly all fifty of the bills I don the food and begun to ate ravenously. They loved it in fact they loved it so much wjr they ate all of severe inside droves food and all their bread and then flew up. Look them both directly in the bowed and disappeared disappeared back into the trees so fair and Sangro look at each other. How extraordinary but at least they weren't in trouble even if they were left without a meal how all they could do was going there ten? ZIP IT UP. Go to sleep the next morning. They woke up just as Dorn was breaking and as they opened the tent they saw a blue grey messed floating amongst the trees. They were both so hungry que- but the bills had everything they hide. Fear had an idea come with me. She said to Sandro and let him through the trees for half a mile and till they got to crystal messed reservoir base reservoir was special and it was where I I learned a swim but it was also first thing in the morning where magical crystals come up through the water on each of these crystals is very valuable because each of them can grant you a wish of anything you want but you must never break one off because snap south fear broke off a crystal the shore and said all you wish all he wished for breakfast for me and Sangro where the soonest soonest. The words had left her lips. Lovely breakfast of eggs and toast and Smash Berry. Job appeared by their feet and they I sat down to eight eight greedily for as they ate angry noises started coming from the trees on soon. I knew army of Buell's they stone led by stokes and Berry Zip tote and landed body them broke crystal demanded demanded berry pro crystal and make wish said stokes accusingly. Oh yes sets affair. Sorry Croydon appeals and began to bind. Sandra wins fears ankles. We've golden thread. Wait set a little voice it was grip Walkin with web and their army of bills. They flew of the wood is one and landed boy stokes and Berry. He's not criminals. They feed Buell's grip and Web lab explained to Stokes and Berry that's the fear and Sandra had shared their whole meal with them not last night and if they wish wish percent breakfast well that was a fair wish. STOKES and Berry flew up in front of severe and Sandra and bowed after a long walk back through. screwdrivers would fear and Sandro. Were soon back outside their house. Let's go back to his next weekend. Said just it's a fear but this time let's pack two meals else one for the bills and then a sacred one for us. Sandra laughed Dale. He said and with smiles on their faces says they went soit. Joe's towing for breakfast. Say Daddy Sandra windsurfed beer looked at each other but then sat down at the table with mummy. Well there's no harm in having to to breakfast sometimes. Is there nine. You remember you can find more Nissen ducats on Youtube Instagram Equa- On spotify goodness go.

Sandra Sandro buell Smash Berry Buell stokes sp rivers Sandra Gendreau Sandra windsurfed Buell Bush Roy Horace Mawlana Horse Mawlana Douglas Darla sangro Porto Boden Croydon Sangro
#155: Killing Eve / Crazy Rich Asians / Shane Dawson + Jeffree Star

SRSLY

43:41 min | 3 years ago

#155: Killing Eve / Crazy Rich Asians / Shane Dawson + Jeffree Star

"Hello, welcome to seriously the new statesman. Poke costs that takes pop culture. Seriously. I'm Tara line Crompton and I'm on Alaska vich this week. We're talking about the BBC thriller, killing eve and the film crazy rich Asians, and has also been watching Shane Dawson's YouTube documentary series on Jeffrey star. So we'll be talking about how that went later in the show. Hello. Hello, welcome back to another episode of seriously recording this slightly in advance on we Caroline because I'm gonna be away again. So we've managed to make. So that's not going to be a gap in our po- costing schedule for all of listeners. So I'm pretty pleased with that because we've been a little bit gap e lately, so I'm glad we prevented another one we have. Yes, we've been so organized this week. I've been very disciplined about only watching things for the podcast and therefore have managed to get through the one thing I have been watching quite intensely. Is the governor hearing in the US. Yes, it's just been an obsolete extrordinary unlike just incomprehensively depressing experience. Anything this hearing is going to go in the way the you and I wanted to go. No, absolutely. No, it's all in the most fundamental way bid for nothing in a sense. I think. We'll maybe we'll be proved wrong by vents by debt. Thanks. But yeah, I just I can't help thinking about that photograph that was going round everyone's social media that showed Kaverner like in the middle of the tables have in full flow like red faced old white men and then behind him, those just this row of women on the front row. In order to the hearing, all of them were just making some version of the like your walkman face. Even women in the room with him, cannot hide their disgust for what he is saying. Why does no one care by on the difference in the way in the presentation styles of the tune limit? So extraordinary where Doxa fought, you know, we often talk about the kind of dangerous myth of the perfect victim, but Larizza perfect victim. It's, I mean, she remembers everything quite clearly in the stuff that she doesn't remember. She's very kind of clear about what. Can't why. No, she, you know, some of her own expertise comes in and knowledge of, you know how the memory functions when you've gone through Matic incident and she's so polite and she apologizes to the cry or anything that we make us seem weak. Yeah. When she did get emotional, it was just so roar and so clear what she, you know, all never forget her talking about how the one thing that she remembers from the incident is the uproar ES after the team, having a great time. And I don't know. She just she was so rational and clear and calm and wonderful, and then cavenaugh comes in. He's like, so petulant unstrap e an angry being the classic kind of like crying as a making myself victims, not not because I'm actually upset, but as a just all completely stroppy at lesson. And just inappropriate. You know, you wouldn't behave like that work 'having in that way. I so of. I mean, I've seen people on Twitter describing a job interview, you know, like in a very in a very, yeah, tame professional setting to be. He's being sassy like that and going on and on about how much he loves BIA. Like why not an appropriate thing to it? Just always opposite baffling to me, I find that it is like amazing, television. I think that's why it's worth talking about here is that you couldn't script anything more bizarre for the scenario that it's supposed to serve. And yet I was thinking the whole time I was like essentially additioning to be one of the most important judges in the world. Why do you think this is good material to show that you'd be good at that in some ways, it felt a bit like the Hillary Trump kind of dynamic playing NYU had talked to foods that they're in olym- blue and in this incredible kind of like powerful outfit and so calm and so ready to dispute lies with FOX FOX. You had a lot of facts as well, and then Cavanaugh just like ranting and raving and just knowing the this kind of senseless. Patriarchal blustering is the thing that's going to be alternately the Victor when seem so obvious that this like hyper competent intelligent woman is the one that's in the it just ready so depressing. Yeah. If you've been avoiding it, I would counsel you to continue doing that because although it's it's compelling, it's it's not. Fiction, it's real. That's the thing I had to keep reminding myself what I was what she had that you are not watching some kind of spin off of a spin off of the good wife or something. This is this is real life, even though it didn't really feel like it, but she's incredible. She's been credible as incredible much power Saha like I'm just so in a war of her. And I was so impressed watching her testimony. And yeah, just if nothing else, you know, we've gained a hero in her like it's incredible stuff anyway. Aside from that, we've been watching seriously. We have an Ivo say, been working on something in the background. I'm almost ready to share with listeners which is a sort of secret project to do with detective novels from about nineteen twenty to nineteen forty five. And I'm very, very nearly ready to release it. But before I do, I need hopefully sincerety business to help me out with it. If you like those novels and I'm talking about. Out Agatha Christie Dorothy l says, now, Marsh, Dr, Mitchell, those kind of people if you like their work, I would like you to tell me why. So me an Email on 'em I've set up a special address versus Caroline Crompton plus mysteries at g mail dot com. Let the plus sign. And yeah, just the issue Email and I will explain more and how you can get vote. Sounds extremely exciting and extremely Caroline. So this everyone I've like, let in on this equal has basically been like this. This is your dream job. Isn't your just trying to make it happen? Yeah, it'll happen. I'm so it will happen. I'm doing it so anyway, rolling on with today's show. The vast thing we're gonna talk about this week is killing eve, which is an eight part series made for BBC America. It was a doctor television from new Jennings's codename Bill and l. novellas by Phoebe water bridge. He right fleabag for the three. And we've talked for her on this show. It's all Sandra Oh's eve last. Street, a security officer, he becomes obsessed with the mysterious female assassin Jody coma as assassin villa. No, the psychopathic killer who in turn becomes obsessed with the officer trucking her. So it's like, it's not really cat-and-mouse. It's more like captain cat. Yeah, which I didn't. Maybe that's kind of gross phrase considering it. So so like one of the kind of STA mazing league critically received woman fronted. Maybe cooling them. Cats is a little bit. Sounds like Kathy obituary something, doesn't it. But yeah, it's really incredible because this kind of compelling chase between people and you don't know who's hunting who. And it set the places in it. But that's lots of scenes in London because Sondra works for m. i. sex and said as lots of kind of London sediments but them Bill, Nell, who's this kind of like international assassin is kind of impoverished one day in Moscow the next Vienna, Bitta Preston everywhere yet it was one of the main things I thought when I first started watching this, there is money behind this. It looks expensive in their list of exterior shots in front of famous landmarks could not be faked, and the wardrobe is incredible. And you know, we've talked to ready on this show about how this is the BBC America production, nor a BBC, three production nor BBC. Anything else production. And as like a lot of repose allow BBC America to have a lot more money than the and it kinda shows in this in this drama, but we, it was much hyped for you and me because we're big fans of Phoebe Waller bridge. And I think off the other programs we really like, or at least I really like things are kind of like, you know, we're both big fans of murder mysteries and where both link fans of kind of like crime TV shows, and I'm such a huge fan of Happy Valley, which was lying search party. I feel is relevant to this. Yeah, very much so. So kind of has a lot, the threads of stuff we like. And I think the Coster incredible. And there was a real danger when we knew the cost of the premise and script writer and everything. This. Would inevitably disappoint because our expectations were sky high, but for me just like smashed three them and it's just, I think the best thing I've seen on TV in time and definitely my favorite thing has been on TV this year in twenty eight, teen Yelm same for me by far I haven't been so similar tasty gripped and amused by something in a really long time because this is something that I think must be Phoebe won't abridge because it just speaks so much of her other work is that she's managed to make something really dark and quite tragic in places and quite scary. Sometimes. She's also most make it funny the we last, we're not going to go into a huge amount. 'cause we talked about it a lot last week, but in a bodyguard is the other BBC series that's been getting a lot of talk so far this autumn and I did not love once whilst watching bodyguard apart from at its ridiculousness. It's dialogue was flat and wooden and rubbish. Whereas the dialogue in killing eve is light and sparkling, and funny and forever. Instance, Sandro 's character has a really interesting and sort of antagonist relationship with one of her colleagues play by David Haig and they kind of trashed org each other. And every time, like is in the first or second episode when spoiler alert they're about to get fired. You know, there's this amazing scene where Sandro yells at their boss, let you're just at Dick's wabc and her colleague goes, hey, and you think he's gonna like, you can't speak him that because I wanted to call him that you know, it's constantly surprising you with litho linguistic moments like that. Yeah, and she's managed to create something that is glossy and sexy, and funny and sparky, but is also really to the bone in terms of character. And I think she's got this amazing skill of monitoring to make characters so believable, and the motivation seem real. And like you say, the way that people talk to their colleagues. Seems real, and I think that's actually quite hard thing to do to make something this kind of over the top and absurd and funny and places also really realistic and others, and as an incredible, see, that's really, really serious. And I won't spoil the details of t. much because I think one of the great things about this program is how surprising is. So I think we want to get as we discuss it, but there's a really great Syria seen the involves a massive betrayal and the character starts to explaining what they've done, what they've done and it's really horrible. And then you just see, Sandra, look at this person pitying how pathetic they are. She says, you can't blame me NHS for this. Let's just. Folly basically delighted that the other character says, no, of course, I, I play the government. If they're seventy lies, I assure has an incredible line rush is great. I love the show. He, you might know Pacino does from the Harry Potter series. She plays Sandra is boss essentially, but she likes hub, good ball. The mix and does does allied really early on. She's taking Sandra new office said she just points street and she goes, I won't saw rat drinking a can of coke with both hands extrordinary. Just so funny, really, just maybe hysterically long and the whole time, just so gripped by the actual plot, what's happening and you want to know, you know, like if Sandro going to behave competing recklessly because she's obsessed with this case, he'll what is her? Is she going to continue to keep disappointing her husband home. There's just so much going on so much texture to it, and it's really, really seductive. And I just, I think it's really strange like she haven't seen TV like that before. I think it is doing something, genuine white reputation read new. And yeah, I just I'm so excited that it's even on our screens and it's getting a second series before even Ed. It had been picked up for a second series started filming it. So that is exciting in itself. But yeah, I just wanted to touch on this idea of it being believable because I don't want anyone to think that I think VIN anals poisoned perfume is any more realistic. Than any of the shenanigans in bodyguard. Like it's just note by think the point is that the characters are believable as people and their emotions and their interactions, unlike their workplace humor as you said that, right, randomness sides. And you know the scene where Fiona Shorenstein Andro like meeting in a cafe and Sandro says, come gin and tonic on the way to says what we do not. She open the ball. It's ten AM and van show does looks dead in the head to gentle that kind of the aura of a more powerful immoral tive women like more comfortable with Geraldo just like, sure, I'll get them. You know, that kind of thing just feels realistic to me, and that's what makes yet that that's what makes you happy to go along with the poison perfume and the like creepy hairpin and complete all of this sort of mad ways. In which analysis nights people and gets away with it. Because when she gets back to her like fancy apartment in Paris and flops down on the sofa, you believe that she actually is tired. Yeah, whereas I never believed anyone in body God because I just never seem to sit down all, say anything normal. I love the performances while I think the cost incredible. And I think those three lead female performances are just incredible. Jody komo's now fifty Comber is amazing. And I wanted to say she is. She was the lead in the BBC, three series thirteen that we talked a lot about a couple of years ago that twenty sixteen, which is really not that long ago. But if you think that you know she, she was utterly convincing. I as a kind of juvenile kidnapping victim in that. You know she was so uncertain. And she was so traumatized and all of that. And now she's like strutting around Vienna in designer clothes, equally as convincing as a kind of international woman of mystery, but with a kind of psychopathic tendencies. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I think the thing that's really interesting about her as an actress is she always brought this kind of double-edged side to performances someone. Thank she was really great in my mad fat diary, which is something that we've talked about seriously allow this one of my favorite shows and he plays the best friend figure in my mom Dr. But she's also the frenemy figure and she can be Rudy bitchy and horrible and mean, but she can also be really laughing and insecure or naive, and she brings both sides of kind of Warren. I think an inherent kind of double sides to law of teenagers how you can be like ready, honorable, and then lash out be quite horrible. She brings thought so while to that role in in thirteen as kind of a subplot way or quite suspicious of her, even though she is a traumatize twitchy kidnap victim and she has to play this this this victim who's also a little bit unlikable and there's an edge of, you know, darkness to her, which I'm sure is the case for people who've gone through incredibly. Experiences like that. And so she makes it quite compelling difficult performance when you never quite know how to feel about her. And that's what she's doing in killing. If she's doing this performance where I mean, first of all, she's just incredibly charismatic. I'm so you end up so of rooting for the Vidal character points. Even though you know that she's the criminal mastermind, it's as simple as being the villain that you want to see forted because you really do just grows become completely obsessed with her and lava. But at the same time, she's. Playing with the idea of what does does it annot have feelings on all to itchy completely an empathetic and emotionless, or is she scarred by some trauma in her pass by all of these things that that that road really, they never want to give you that factory Arthur and they never box up that character and they all always leaves you guessing. So it's genuinely surprising and actually incredible. I think Fiona Shaw and Sandra as well just bringing next level compelling, charismatic performances, and you never wanna take your eyes off all three of these women. And it's just so pretty to say, yeah, and it goes without saying, really how exceptional is to see a quality drama with so much money spent on it with so many major female characters, and I led to the best Email ever see or I've been trying to get some seventy time with some of the cost the PR the PR said today, I'm really sorry. We're struggling to pin down. You know, these, these incredible women. Would you buy any Shawn's take one of the men. I've just never had a like a Mary. It's like that before. I was just so it just filled me with. Can you be if you the like IT boy, he can take an into with Kenny. Kenny. I just can't wait for the second series to be onus which is being filmed right now as we speak. And I'm just so pleased. The weird show like this exists and just, yeah, a call wait. So. Now we're gonna talk about crazy rich Asians, which is a romantic comedy directed by John MD and based on Kevin Kwan's bestselling novel of the same name. It styles Constance Wu as Rachel chew an Asian American academic in New York City who travels to Singapore to attend a wedding with Chinese boyfriend. Nick played by Henry Golding. Once there she discovers that naked the air to a super-rich, but very traditional family who then on all that welcoming to his new girlfriend. Now, this is a film that has had a lot of hype, particularly, I feel in America where it is a landmark in terms of like Asian representation in cinema. I've seen all kinds of pieces saying, you know, it's been, I think, since nineteen ninety three's the Joy Luck Club since there were so many speaking roles phasing actors by completely incredible and terrible FOX. I had no, that. It's just it's just seems completely an excusable, doesn't it that we, we were talking about this recently with them. The boys I've loved before where the production company that made with the only production company that were would insist on whitewashing the lead role who's a Korean American teenager a nice just. Might like you call you call, believe it, but then you know, when you're in a privileged physician to be able to disbelieve, these things is easy. I'm sure for that will be a lot of people listening will. That's what it's like. But yeah, it's really, I feel seminal compensation that happened a Brown African American representation with films Hidden Figures and Black Panther where slightly against the old sore against the expectations studios. They were massive books, office hits. And you know everyone who has you say had been deploring this lack of representation was light. Well, dove as loads of us. Of course, we would go and see films where we feel like we're being represented and the same has been true for crazy, rich Asians. It's made a lot of money and been really successful. And I think that the ready talk about a crazy, rich Asians, too. They're all they're all Mon ovals raise made over two hundred million dollars while while his a lot. So yeah, and I, we have seen it. I found it very enjoyable. Easy to watch funny by struggled with it as as like a really high quality, wrong calm. And I think part of that will because maybe it's not for me, which is completely fine and it doesn't have to be for me. And I imagine a lot of the really exciting parts of watching that and feeling and seeing yourself represented will be in some of the details which will go over the heads of some of the white audiences. And I've read some pieces online from people where I'm like, oh, yeah, cool. I would never even noticed that that was something that doesn't, you know that you don't normally see on screen in terms of just like quirks of dialogue and things like that. But yeah. Pods. I also really from kind of like wealth perspective that Parsi Brady really, there is a lot of like, yeah, that is fun. It's kind of ridiculous and knowingly, say like that's very ridiculous. Wetting sequence including Leica. An oil is bathed in sort of mice. Totally Walser Sunday running down the aisle and the the bride in a beautiful BAFTA Inigo discount. So that's really amazing. Stuff like that as just like like with most rum comes like any book standard, white, Ron Cobb like symphony rated gender politics. As of like kind of ridiculous reaches of clots. You know, characters doing crazy mental gymnastics people behaving in a completely absurd indicative manner. Stuff like that. That was really strange. I think the fundamental premise is really important to the novel and on the film and is kind of premise that happens in lots of things, which is this kind of like it's not. It's not a rags to riches story. The central premise is kind of a bit ridiculous, but it is one is essential to many, many wrong combs kind of also fairy stories where it's not quite rags to riches tale. But Rachel, his an economics professor in New York because Matt hub, boyfriend, Nick, Nick, young in New York, and they live like a normal couple's life and unbeknownst to her Nick youngest, like extremely welfare to the point of paying tamer. Yeah. And his his family mostly live in Singapore where they live this quite crazy, which Asian lifestyle. And so he said she the first she hears of this on the plane to meet his family there in first class and being treated incredibly while. Like, obviously, you're just like, come on really hasn't told you any of this? None of my life with all. Like she doesn't. She doesn't really get particularly upset by it. It's kind of like a a noble hurdle for her to overcome, but it's it seems be old biz all to be to be like, yeah, I've just gone on holiday with my partner to me his family, and I've just realized that anything of all him at and yeah, and now he seems to be some kind of Asian Kodak and who knows. Yeah, yeah. Obviously spoiler. They don't split up over the course of this movie. And in fact, relationship progresses in significant ways. And every when there was significant developments in their relationship. I just found myself internally screaming like go. You don't know everything he ever told you who's a lie. Why like committing yourself to this mind? This is like a mod thing to do, and I struggled a bit with the essential premise of kind of. Realizing the importance of south sacrifice. Like the key kind of third, acts plot twist involves her kind of selflessly saying, I just want him to be happy, and if it's without me, that's fide and and then not. That's kind of the thing that allows the happy ending to occur in that kind of frustrated males. I walk on both be happy. Why does she have to self sacrifice? It'll yeah. Why does she have to? Yeah, why I know. Wouldn't aspect of the. I did find interesting though, is sort of the conflict that it sets up between her as an agent American, and then his family who just see themselves as Asian or Chinese Singaporean. You know, they are very similar people, but her family's emigrated to America at his family. Note another line where Knicks something like she will look on your so happy. I'm at like a Chinese girl. She's like Chinese American. Exactly. And her mother, his mother makes these comments about like Americans only care about their own happiness, whereas you to here zinc Oppal, we understand that it's about building something longer lasting than that, you know with that kind of thing. Yeah. I never lost of kind of like sub plot elements. I think almost more interesting than the name flaw in this movie. I just I just struggled with the happy ending of it all and yes, never. You know, I wasn't. I wasn't. Like laughing, super Hallet's, joy movie, and. There's also in Alabama to which like this makes me sound like the world's most annoying picking holes for the sake of picking holes person. But like there wasn't elements, extent rose, like will wealth point is a bit gross. Like, yeah, there's a line west I wanted. Yeah, there's a lie west. Someone says something like, you know. That's a subplot, which is relationship between credibly, be two full successful women and also very handsome from different socioeconomic backgrounds. Businessman. Husband is cheating on her Anez align when she says something to him, like this was never about your background or about money, like my family on prejudiced. They just happen to be rich that like, you know, good people, but your coward kind of thing as though like the money, the extreme out of money is like completely morally neutral, and liar just depends if you're a good personal matter, whether you'll Richard and it's like, well. Extortionate wealth is like no, morally neutral. Cow to spend your money as not morally neutral, like you kind of, let's all the rich characters off the hook a little bit. Exactly. And that's compounded. I feel when you you've actually find out like how they are wealthy, which is basically they are landlords. Which is, I mean, maybe they are amazing carrying one for hundreds, but like as noble profession, it's not known for kind treatment of all my as well, because we all gonna talk about this a little bit in the next one, I think, which is something. Yeah, I'm really interested in, but yes, so crazy, rich, Asians. I thought, you know, I really support success and I'm glad I like went to the box office and pay to see her and like glad it's doing ready well, but doesn't mean that it's also like an incredible and it doesn't have to be there shouldn't be a burden of expectation on it to be better than any other room comb and it's not better than the current average rum calm in the US for me. But why should it be? No, exactly. And there just needs to be more films like it. Yeah. So last week I recommended that Anna watch Shane Dawson's documentary series on his YouTube channel, which is called the secret life of Jeffrey star. So fest. Question on, did you know who either of these people were before? I recommend this. I need. One of these people were on you. Jeffrey stall is I have been kind of Agu Arab Jeffrey staff, maybe the last two or three years. I'm not someone who knew about him back in the mice face era of two thousand seven on eight, which is when in that kind of Paris, Hilton Perez Hilton moment, Jeffrey style became famous as an aspiring musician. Yeah, initially, as a singer really on also just like a sort of internet personality. 'cause he was like, one of the biggest uses on my space and yet then he sort of became a YouTube really? I'm now he's mostly known for make. Yeah, like a lot of influences in social media stars. He really understood the enormous amount of money that's in the beauty mock it and says dos it. I mean, he is like a professional trained makeup artist and salted may. His calls metrics. They sell incredibly well. So yeah, I have no idea. Shane Dawson is kind of still. I mean, I've watched this show so I know little bit about him. You described misconduct Louis through of UT, and he does a lot of interviews with different itchy stars where he solve spends a day in the life as them like dresses up as them industies kind of impressions of them in stuff. So that's kind of how this video series begins with Jeffrey stall, giving chain Dawson a tour of his house, which is like ridiculous and over the top and Taki and ping can also just huge, enormous. Everything's incredibly expensive. As you know, close, it closes, it's full of designer clothes and bards and shoes. And for me, the beginning of these video, this video series was not good. If felt really, I hate that feeling when you're watching something when you're. Do you feel like the people are really aware of the fact that being filmed and really playing in parts of that character for the camera? I'm Jeffrey stall wasn't doing this so much actually. But Shane Dawson, I thought ready was like, that would be moments where he'd asked salacious provocative questions and then like do like a root incredibly shocked face as he was hearing the response in a way to I found nine of his style. This is again, this is kind of why with a he, he, he does that to take the piss. Yes. So like a lot of his videos before this whole thing where he interviews people is relatively new before he still he. He's been on Nucci for ten years before he was doing this. He was doing he kind of two strands. One was parody videos, which was exactly this is where he developed this persona where he would just Mark other YouTubers in sketches and stuff like that. And then the other strand was like. Spiracy theories. So he made loads of videos about, you know, pyramid schemes, concert, spiracy there isn't haunted houses and he feel like he's kind of married the two in this new like strand of work. He's busier what he does. He sold of does his like ridiculous short, Shane thing, but also sees a wider conspiracy and everything. So yeah, that's kind of where that comes through. I just found a lot of a bit like almost like not mocking, but almost like propaganda Ray where it was like, oh my God. I'm here with the shocking, Jeffrey star. He just something about sucking dick. Can you believe this people all my God, and I was like, I don't find this very genuine, but Jeffrey saw himself like remained himself the hallway to same alway. This is the thing. I don't watch him a lot, but from what I've seen, he is just like that old time he has the. The real ability of kind of a media stall, which is whether or not that being natural to seem like that being not just themselves all the time. And even as he's kind of like flicking his half the camera, you just got the sense that he would be like that where the camera was on all these quiet like. Voice guy really like, but then as the videos go on and they stopped doing quite so much of like, okay, we're gonna put makeup on Shane, and now we're going to show you my dogs, and I'm going to show you how expensive this room in my house is like when the kind of like tour and the parody in that kind of stuff dies down and there's actual genuine conversation that were things that were really, really fascinating and Jeffrey stall. You know, there's a lot of moments in it where Jeffrey stars like I've never told anyone this before which again, I found a little bit. So for grand is in circle jerky like the two of them to pretend that this is some unforeseen breaking down of wolves. That's never happened before because it's just good for both of that like promotion, but that would that what moments that felt ready. Oh, wow. That talking about stuff in a very open way. Like there's a bit way Jeffrey star talks about how he. Would dissects walk and he was like, I've never mentioned the I would do. I would have sex with famous people for money before people just know I would had sex with a lot of famous people. People didn't know that I was like, you know, doing sex work for them as well. And then as a really interesting conversation about money and how much money Jeffrey stall makes. It's in the hundreds of millions a year. And you know, these figures huge and we figure out how he owns that much money in. It's not just for make up. A lot of it is in property development, and he said something really interesting like, yeah, we buy these properties. We get a property manager in and it just runs itself and it just makes loads and loads of money, and we do anything and like that is just so depressing. It's how the rich get richer and it's just and then there's a line where he talks about paying his taxes, high pay, twenty twenty million in taxes like why what's going towards? And and then as a couple of times when he talks about money as a bird done and how like actually more money problems is a real thing might people are just going. Mock him and say that he's complaining polo rich boy, but like it's genuine neutral. You learn who your real friends are because everyone wants something from you. And I was just like, wow, this is like an astounding portray of, you know, someone who in all their identity politics you'd expect extreme left-wing is in lots of ways quite left wing liberal. And that is just like incredibly that kind of like American Republican capitalists like this threat of that, that was just fascinating to me. And I just I really wanted that to be more. Shane Dawson, isn't that disagree with his subjects? That's not really how functions does not be impression. I go and you know he got loads of great star of Jeffrey star. So who am I to sit? Haven't be like, oh, I wish she'd been more confrontational. Yeah, I kind of wanted someone to be like, you don't wanna pay taxes. I know I know what? Why do you why? Yeah, it's interesting. So Shane does miss out. She just started a new series in the last couple of days about Jake poll the brother of Logan poll who've of the Japan suicide, video control, Cathy. And actually, I think in the first episode of that one. 'cause he's very light. I've watched to episodes of it. We still haven't actually met Jake Paul. I get a lot of preparation talking to other people about him. I am one of the things he says in the setup rate was like, I feel anxious about the fact that in some of my other series, I may be have been as like pushy integrative as I could have been, and I'm absolutely determined not to let that happen with Jake book because I feel like in this though, so many bad things known about him that it would be remiss of me if I didn't like go in hard, which is why he goes to. He goes and interviews like a psychologist and stuff before he even talks today pool to try and get her to help him like, what are the good questions to ask? How should I approach this? If I want to know these things, what should I ask him and stuff. So, yeah, I think he is conscious of that, but obviously in the moment. Decided to kind of just softly guide him along rather than, yeah, but one thing I find so interesting about all of this as like a matter thing is why in YouTube is interviewing the YouTubers at does no media scrutiny of this world at always a huge part of UT in generalists. Ichi does starring in each other's videos laborat- saying, because if one person's got a million subscribers, another person's million subscribers. If they do together about the potential extra millions of scribe as reach them as a whole. I, it's so intense and there are some sections. If you Chiba culture that you talk about the Logan. Paul, Jake, Paul kind of an extended family of the IRS and they supposedly live in the same house and they all have these like reality TV style relationship dramas than later. Like Jake, Paul engage, but then it was revealed to be like a prank quote will like no real. Like all this stuff is so. Bizarre and unregulated. And so it's kind of like weird, fantasy fiction merging like a law reality TV essentially, but it just feels like it's been happening outside of the structures of reality TV. I'm where the audience is mostly kind of like teenagers and young people, and like the rest of the world isn't ready, engaging watching, doesn't I know more extreme. Yes, seem to be able to happen is it will just busy all it's bizarre. Yeah. So I find it really interesting that like as far as I know, Jeffrey star has been on, you know, the new at times haven't done like a long profile of him or anything, and yet like like hundred million people watched this Shane Dawson series or something yet it does feel like a really strangely domestically sealed world where they will just talk to each other and this latest manifestation of it is they want to see documentary rather than a collaboration. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I would moments where I felt like hang on this. Seems like a mutually beneficial exercise the real documentary, but then maybe we'll real commend trees also beneficial exercise. Yeah, yeah. If I find it endlessly fascinating this whole thing, not least because I feel like I'm thirty alot of other people. My age just have no idea that exists. Yeah, bizarre. Say, thank you. It was a real educational experience for me. So next week we are going to leave, you forbid, and although I will be watching the polls, Aries intently. We're gonna try a podcast, and this is one the I feel quite apprehensive about it's cool Dr, death, and it's kind of true crime, medical thriller podcast, known fiction, apparently, and just a lot of people have described it to me as similar tainted, the most impressive and disgusting they've ever listen to. So I don't know how we're gonna get with it, but we're going to give at your high while nervously. I'll go ahead with that the next time. Thanks for listening to this episode of seriously the pop culture podcast from the new statesman. If you enjoyed the show, why not subscribe to make sure you never miss another episode. We're bailable know the usual places you get pocus including own apple podcasts, will you could leave us rating unreviewed fancy. It makes us happy, and it also helps other people find the show if you'd like to come and see us in person, check out the events page of our website. Seriously pods dot com. Slash events, details of next pub, culture, quiz and anything else we're doing with a pit. We're available many other places on the internet, including on Twitter, Facebook, and tumbler with easily pulled on all of them follow us. Keep up with what we're up to or to chat to other listeners about things even -joyed on the show. We love getting recommendations. Things we should feature on the show or hearing your thoughts on what we've already discussed, get in touch on social media or Email us on seriously at CI, Mel dot com. And if you feel strongly that more pop culture needs to be taken seriously, spread the word and tell your friends and family about the past.

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 Google's problem with AI and ethics: Chips With Everything podcast

Chips with Everything

22:43 min | 1 year ago

Google's problem with AI and ethics: Chips With Everything podcast

"The. The god. So I think it's fair to be worried about hey, I so I wouldn't say just being optimstic about it. But we want to be talked about it. Hey, I holds the potential for some of the biggest advances. We're going to see. At the end of March, Google launched a global council would advise on ethical issues around artificial intelligence and other emerging technologies. They called it the advanced technology external advisory council a week later. Under fire again for pulling the plug on its AI ethic sport they announced they were shutting it down. A group of Google employees had protested the inclusion of what they considered to be a right wing think tank leader and had called for removal because of previous remarks she had made with ought to be anti LGBT and anti immigrant. Another member of the council had already resigned. In a statement, Google said it's become clear that in the current environment AT AC cont function as we wanted. So ending the council and going back to the drawing board. This got me thinking of an episode. We did in the summer of twenty eight teen when Google CEO's and our Pichai wrote a blog post outlining seven objectives. The company had going forward for working with a I. At chips where constantly looking at how big tech is attempting to grapple with the ethics of the they're making. So this week. We're going to replay that episode to refresh our memories about what Google had hoped to achieve when they first set out these principles day worry will be back next week with new episode of chips. I'm Jordan Erika Weber, and this is chips with everything. Did you realize I didn't realize that's okay. This week. We've brought together. Some of the best minds across tech and ethics to discuss ethical standards for the research and development of a I. So this week I'm joined in studio by Sunjay mode. Gill a senior lecturer from the reasoning and planning group at King's College London. Doctor Yasmin Odin a senior lecturer of philosophy at Mary's university in London and on Skype. We're joined by Dr Sandro actor research fellow in data ethics robotics and internet. Regulation. Cybersecurity at the Oxford internet institute and the Alan turing institute in London say that's three people who are incredibly qualified to helpless discussed this week's topic. I should also point out that we did reach out to deep mind to see if someone from the company wanted to discuss this with us, but they went vailable at this time. So Google's CEO cinde CHAI, or at least someone from his office published a blog post in early June, the outlined Google's seven principles for working with AI plus four areas in which they will not use all had a look at them. And we'll get into these specific commandments that intrigue you in particular later on. But first, Sandra just. From you could we get some context for the conversation. So just could you remind us of Google's history with AI. Yes. So I think Google in particular, but actually all major tech companies have become very aware of the ethical implications of the eye and for quite some time. I think everybody was very keen on finding a way forward to at one hand harness Dafoe potential VI, but at the same time solutions to mitigate those risks. And I think the statement now is is a very good step forward to actually pledge that some ethical consideration will be at the heart of their work. I'm interested in why Google is doing this. Now, they got into trouble before for the area research. Anyone it does seem as if the staff rather rejected work on military drones. And I think that that puts enormous pressure on them to do something that project maven. That's right. I think. Also, there has been some talk recently about the fact that the don't do evil. Sue principle has been quietly dropped from their commitments don't be evil had long been Google's unofficial company motto. But when the company was reorganized under its parent company, alphabet, it was slightly adjusted to do the right thing. So yes, it's not the first time that a rules or principles have been written up by organisms that are concerned with using our responsibly. In fact, the future of life institute, for example, has had hundreds of researches sign its list of AI principles, including many, Google employees. So why did send up a CHAI decide to write his own list? And why right now I mean, it seems like a very good step forward. I can't help but be slightly cynical. And it does seem to me rather more of a PR sort of offensive than than much else. For instance, I'm quite concerned that cooled objectives which doesn't suggest to be an intention to make this something concrete that you must. But by the same way that something that rules or laws or principles as she described. What would such I think they do come across as raw the vague? And of course, the devil is always in the detail. But I do think it's a step in the right direction. Let's hope that there is some followup work on these principles is made more concrete that there does prompt a discussion as to what the purpose regulations are. And I think we will have to see now how this how these principles are now fleshed out in a bit more detailed, the very vagueness of the principles means that you white follow them and inadvertently that may still lead to harmful consequences. I mean, in some sense is the rhetorical thrust. Ironically of atoms three laws if we encode these kinds of principles in the eyes themselves, they may still eventually cause harm even though they abide by those principles in in the general sense. They always started recording. I asked each of my guests to pick one of these seven objectives that stood out to them. As particularly interesting. They were going to dig in some of these. Principals in more detail, we'll start with you Sunday over these seven comments or objectives. As code laid out by Pichai, which one in particular intrigued you I started with the one on on being built and tested for safety. So of course, there's a major issue in a major concerns about the safety. A lot of shouldn't elegance what what interested me was many of these doomsday scenarios have antiquated problems arising when these artifacts. Intelligent technologies are developed by the company. So what strikes me as being a difficult issue would be when the machine automation tangent machine start to be used by Google? They started become more tournaments. They start to engage research development themselves. And then we might have the problem that the actions of these machines where not be allying with human values. So that's that goal is a very complex Goto to unpack in to make sure that it is satisfied. So that's principle. Number three, be built and tested for safety. And. I'll just elaborate on what Pichai rights there. He says we will continue to develop an apply strong safety and security practices to avoid unintended results that create risks of harm. We will design our AI systems to be appropriately cautious and seek to develop them in accordance with best practices in AI safety research, in appropriate cases, we will test technologies in constrained environments, monitor that operation off the deployment Yasmina seemed like you had something you wanted to say that I think one of the problems there is is in again in this terminology that the adopting they took about being appropriately cautious. I mean, the that leaves so much for juicy and what we think about as appropriate and context, according to needs and interests also to be cautious doesn't mean that. They don't do something you can still do something because about the same time. So it doesn't really commit them to all that much, and I have the same sorts of concerns with a lot of these objectives. But when it comes to safety and security. That's that's really a very big problem. Yeah. Does anyone have any thoughts for how you actually find out an IS safe? Maybe not so much finding out how air is safe. But ensuring the is say in the in the sense that in order to make an appropriate ethical decision. One would require input from the humans. I quite liked the idea that they had the very very very general, but they have principal for be accountable to people. Now think the suggestion there that three much linked to this issue, which is that these ethical decisions will need to have input from the humans on ongoing basis because of course, our moral ethical systems evolve. Over time it's not like you can prescribe something from the outset. And let it go and assume it will be appropriate. Does anyone have any thoughts on whether this will affect things like or tournaments vehicles? So the idea that something has to be tested for safety. If it has the potential to kill people does that mean, you just shouldn't work on. It'll I think there is very important to distinguish is research. Versus deployment rights. I think those things are very off mixed together. That's not actually accurate you can research and test a lot of things before you make the decision to deploy it so when it comes to critical safety systems like almost cars, I didn't faint anybody would argue that we shouldn't be testing them. In fact, everybody would agree that we should tested in in a lot of different than the birds environments to make them learn from the mistakes and stuff like that. The question is when is a product safe enough to be released to the market. And I think this is where we probably this is deregulation stuff starts not so much of the with the research, actually, do you think that an outside body should regulate the safety of Google? I don't think there's like a one fits all solution to that. I guess they're older Adams that have not so many risks attached to them very might not need oversights. But for certain areas, I think might be. A responsible to not have oversight. I mean cars, right. We have public while these regulating how to use cars, and we need to get tickets for being allowed to use them on the street because their risk attached to it. So if there is a deployment or system that has similar than Dennis, of course, when the oversight from governmental or independent, bloody Yasmin you mentioned project maven, if Google was following this principle of making sure things that tested for safety. Do you think they never would have been able to pick up that contract in the first place? Well, I think in a way they've sort of left space to do that. Because they've said that that, you know, they're not going to be involved with military equipment per se, but they did say they would still be working with governments, and they gave a list of ways in which that might play out. So again, I'm not sure that any of these objectives or present a particular barrier to the source of work was an interesting thing would be well what if Google were involved in? Let's say. The development of certain kinds of sensor technology that was extremely accurate at identifying an ISIS terrorist now that sensitivity could be used by autonomous weapon, which was not developed by Google, but it still makes crucial use of technology. That's been developed by Google now. Maybe this principle allows them gives them the the leeway to develop such sensitive -nology and one Furthermore could argue that on her YouTube tearing grounds that actually on balance. That would be a good thing. What actually would it be detecting when you say a terrorist? I mean, it's it's a fault experiment if you like philosophy. So I love those experiments, but I would also say that there is a real problem with him. I think that they sometimes seduce us into thinking that a scenario that could in principle, at least in our minds be real therefore has some possibility and reality and the risk with that is if things happen as a result of possibility. So I think we need. To be really careful about either suggesting could do in a way that actually is not going to happen or suggesting what it could do and therefore we need count in terms of what we think about ethically and in legal terms. So I'm not really sure how technology resolves the problem which makes good use Badgis. If you prefer of the sorts of problems that we have in our human engagement, and then feeds them into technology. So it's difficult to envisage exactly how Google will make sure the is they deploy awfully safe. But a plan is in place and dissenter explains the blog post is symbolic. It represents the beginning of an important conversation. After the break. We'll discuss Google's ongoing issue with unfed biases in that AI software, and what it means to be accountable to people when working with a is up until this point from legal perspective. There wasn't much that you could actually do because we don't have any loss governing a. We'll be right back. Voice from the guardian. Hey, do you have a one quick catch up on the knees? Headlines busing in the morning while you're making breakfast getting dressed. Well, if you have a legal assistant Ogle, hi, we can help with that. The guardian briefing is an experiment from the voice lab, which under team minutes brings you up to speed with what you need to know about the day's top stories. We'll make sure you don't miss a thing to listen anytime, just say, hey, Google speak to the guardian briefing. Welcome back to with everything. I'm Jordan Erika Weber. Before the break. I into small group of experts started to dissect a recent blog post from Google CEO, sin, Daba, CHAI, which outlined the technology companies seven of Jek gives for responsibly working with is. It seems pretty obvious. The I can reinforce bias in some pretty horrific ways. Just this week, my friend shelhah who actually co hosted this podcast for black history with episode tweeted that Samsung had created a storyline from her photos called my furry friend that included photo she taken of animals in one picture of her with her hair out. Google has also made some serious mistakes on this kind of thing. But do you have any ideas how some sung Google when everyone else can actually avoid reinforcing unfair bias? I'm actually not as whole surprised by that. I'm horrified by it. But I'm not surprised in the reason is because of the scandal in January of this year when Google facial recognition, image recognition identified human beings as guerrillas, and it was their response to that. That particularly struck me because what they did very quickly was to remove the use of the term gorilla in image recognition of now that doesn't get to the problem of what that software is doing. And the biases replicating. I think the first long as they keep looking for these post hawk solutions that don't really tackle why the problems end up in the software, then it's just gains for pieces of what he thinks. Jay, do you think it's possible to avoid bias with this kind of tech? I was going to be very difficult. I mean, we've already seen as we've seen many examples of bias, and in some sense, the data, of course, includes the bias and the predominant paradigm in artificial intelligence is machine learning, which is essentially learning from precedent from from the data. And I think this is behind principle four, which is corrections of these biases will require that the machines explain their reasoning and make their reasoning transparent. And my understanding the hope is that they are aware that is a problem, and they are working on solutions, albeit they may they may not have developed to be vindicated solutions, and particular problem of courses with explaining the reasoning but. That's my understanding of how they look into to address this issue. What strikes me that phrase as we should minimize by says, I think it would be smart to save it should increase diversity? And I think that would be actually helping to problem because the problems of bias and discrimination is partly because the data is biased and just replicates. The stereotypes that we have. We also have a problem in the coding community in terms of bias because decoding community is not very diverse. So obviously ios people have intentional unintentional latent biases. They are just gonna you know, everybody has certain convictions, and this will be fed into the algorithm as well. And the last Vegas diversity in terms of disciplines. There is probably not just the tech solution to the problems for facing. We actually need different discipline about this to get her. When you talk about the political impacts. Of a political scientists important. Are you talking about the economic impacts of I probably need economists for that is it about the legal implications with lawyers is about the ethical implication. Philosophers. So it's not just about tweaking the al-gharib him to make its, you know, seem unbiased it's actually a holistic project that you need to embrace diversity. I mean, perhaps against will be placed where regulation could dictate that. There is the recouping kind of sample the required adversity in. The bias correct is eagle this team of bias, correct? To say, no, this is bias and regulation could help. Let's okay. Well, you need to make sure you've got a full representation of different cultures and and genders etcetera etcetera. And that's where regulation could really make a difference. So our panel agrees that when it comes to a is creating reinforcing on fat bias. We can't solve the problem with more technology, we need to look to human beings. But what happens when issues do arise? Who is held accountable and how which brings us to Sandra's chosen objective. So the issue of accountability has come up quite a lot ready in this discussion. But Sandra you wanted to dig a little deeper into this which is principle number four, which is be accountable to people so patrol rights. We will design systems that provide appropriate opportunities for feedback relevant explanations and appeal our AI technologies will be subject to appropriate human direction and control so up until this point. How has this kind of thing worked if people had complaints about a I? I how Google deal with them. So far, there's no very vivid discussion about accountability in general because all Dems, I'm very unpredictable and what they do. So you don't really for C powder gonna make decisions in what they're gonna do if they do it. You might be able to understand it and they've worked very unim- Asli. So it's basically the algorithm doing stuff and not necessarily human. And all those things are very often used to say, well, you know, it's not the humans fault, the Alderwood did it, and that's a very bad bad excuse. I think an excuse to be should not accept in a society, the whole computer said, no. And I don't know how it works. But let's just move on. That's not try to open up the block blackbox in the very big problem up until this point for illegal perspective. There wasn't much that you could actually do because we don't have any loss governing is at all. We do. Now have the new data protection framework in Europe. But it's very good step. Forward insuring explainable on transparency. I ain't giving users or the general public away to start engaging in dialogue grad and saying this is a black box. We don't understand it. And that the end of the discussion. And in fact, if you ask someone who was a research machine learning. Well, can you explain why your machine algorithm made the decision it did they'd be flummoxed, frankly? So it's one of the most pressing problems. Yeah. It's it's still quite woolly. It offers a very promising intention, but yes, I'm I sent me can't see what concrete outcome could let like, especially when you take into account, quite how many different problems may arise and and do arise in response to these sorts of systems. Sandra? Do you think that this goal would be better achieved if the tech industry as a whole just kind of came together and cold for? A regulatory body to specifically look at companies that create a is. Yes, I think even though things like the first step forwards was very good of Google to say what they feign cut in digital forward. I think the next step is actually to start a conversation with the whole of industry, for example, into partnership, only, I would be a very good place to have that. And I'm very much hope that this will actually start up which conversation not just move to take industry, but also of civil society academics and the government around that. I'm not saying you should regulate everything, but to research, Nick, send if we have real problems than yes, we probably need some regulatory oversight poodles sings. That's all for today. Come back to us next week for a brand new episode chips is produced by Danielle Stevens. I'm Jordan Erika Weber. Thanks for listening. For more Britt put costs from the guardian. Just go to the guardian dot com slash.

Google Jordan Erika Weber Sandra CEO Pichai AI advisory council Gill London Pichai King's College London YouTube Oxford internet institute senior lecturer Dafoe Samsung Dr Sandro Europe Doctor Yasmin Odin
Georges Bizet 3: Christmas Carols in Classical Music

Classics for Kids

05:59 min | 2 months ago

Georges Bizet 3: Christmas Carols in Classical Music

"Hello welcome to classics for kids. I'm naomi lewin. This week in celebration of the christmas season some classical compositions that involve christmas carols in the middle of the nineteenth century. An englishman named william chatterton dix came up with christmasy words. What child is this for the old folk song green sleeves years later when raytheon williams wrote his fantasia on green sleeves. He probably had a pretty good idea that the peace would get played a lot at christmas. Time the fantasia. Green sleeves was originally part of an opera but some pieces of christmas. Carol classical music written to be used in church johann sebastian bach was an excellent organised. Who spent years writing church music. Bach based a whole set of variations on the old german. Carol come mojo known in english as from heaven above earth. I come that same. Carol turns up in auto nikolas christmas overture which even has acquired to sing it. There's another german christmas. Carol in which. Mary sings joseph dearest joseph mine asking joseph for help rocking the baby. Jesus to sleep. Yohannes brahms used that in song. He wrote to honor another baby the son of his good friend joseph or josef in german. Walk him brahms. Like the inside. Joke of the to joseph's and he liked the wonderful tune which he gave to the biala A couple of centuries earlier than brahms was composing in germany mach. One chaperone ta was composing in france. Chaperone ta came up with a whole set of what he called. Carols for instruments. The title of this one is where are those cheerful shepherds headed. One of the top ten favorite christmas carols actually has music by classical composer even though that's not what he wrote it for felix mendelssohn composed a song to celebrate yohannes gutenberg. The man who invented the movable type printing press mendelssohn didn't like the words to that song and told his publisher. He thought the music could be recycled for something else. Maybe a wedding piece but nothing really religious. After mendelssohn died someone in england discovered that the music went perfectly with a poem by charles wesley. The brother of john. Wesley who founded methodism Pieces that use christmas carols were meant to be played at christmas time. Utter reno raspy composed a musical description of three paintings by italian renaissance artist. Sandro botticelli one of those paintings is the adoration of the maj. I in which maj i. The three kings are part of a huge crowd admiring the baby. Jesus resp- iggy sets the scene by quoting an old church chant anyb- any emmanuel which you know as the christmas. Carol o come o come emmanuel. The three kings feature in another piece that uses a christmas carol. The farren dole from the arlesienne sweet by george. Bc opens with an old french. Carol called the march of the kings sir. i'm naomi lewin. I write classics for kids and produce it at wg uc cincinnati. With tim lender. And bruce ellis please join me again for more classics for kids.

Carol naomi lewin william chatterton dix raytheon williams Mary sings joseph dearest jose joseph Yohannes brahms johann sebastian bach nikolas yohannes gutenberg mendelssohn josef brahms felix mendelssohn reno raspy charles wesley germany france Sandro botticelli emmanuel
Ralph Vaughan Williams 4: Christmas Carols in Classical Music

Classics for Kids

05:58 min | 1 year ago

Ralph Vaughan Williams 4: Christmas Carols in Classical Music

"Hello I'm Naomi. Lewin welcomed the classics for kids. Kids this weekend celebration of the Christmas season some classical compositions that have Christmas carols in them. Not all pieces. That use Christmas Ms Carols were meant to be played at Christmas time when he composed music for a play called Lila's the woman from ro a city in France. George borrowed an old French Christmas. Carol called the March of the three kings the three kings feature in another piece that uses a Christmas Carol Auto Reno you know risky composed a musical description of three paintings by Italian renaissance artist. Sandro Botticelli one of those paintings is the adoration of the Maj I in addition to the Gye the three kings. The painting shows a huge crowd gathered to admire the baby. Jesus to set the scene recipe gay quotes the old church chant. Benny Benny Emanuel which you know as the Carroll O.. Come oh come Emmanuel The Germans have a Christmas Carol Lullaby in which Mary Sings. Joseph Dearest Joseph Mine asking for help rocking rocking the baby. Jesus to sleep. Yohannes Brahms used a bit of that Carol. To open a song he wrote in honor of another baby the son of his good friend. Joseph or four Yosef in German Yawkey Brahms like the inside joke the to Joseph's and he liked the wonderful tune which he gave to the viola walk Otto Nicolai put the Carol from human known in English as from heaven above to Earth High Com into his Christmas overture and Johann. Sebastian Bach used that Carol in a set of organ variations. There's also a Christmas carol with music by Ahah classical composer. Even though that's not what he originally intended for Felix Mendelssohn wrote a Song Celebrating Yohannes Gutenberg. The man who invented invented the movable type printing press but Mendelssohn didn't like the words to the song which were by somebody else so he told his publisher to find another use for his music music. He thought it might be good for weddings but not for anything. Really religious. After Mendelssohn died someone in England discovered that the music like went perfectly with a poem by Charles Wesley. The brother of John Wesley who founded methodism. Ah it just about the same time. As Hark the the Herald Angels Sing God attached to Mendelssohn music. Another Englishman came up with christmasy words for the old Folk Song Green Sleeves William Chatterton winn-dixie wrote what child is this in the middle of the Nineteenth Century Rate Fund Williams composed his fantasia on Green Sleeves in the twentieth century. So he he probably knew that the piece would get played a lot at this time of year and the fantasia on green sleeves by rape on Williams. I'm Naomi Lewin. I write classics for kids and produce it with Tim. Lander at W. G. UC Cincinnati. I hope you're having a good holiday season. Please join me next year. That is next week for more classics for Kids Okay.

Christmas Ms Carols Carol Felix Mendelssohn Joseph Dearest Joseph Mine Yohannes Brahms Naomi Lewin Sandro Botticelli Benny Benny Emanuel Williams England Lander John Wesley William Chatterton Sebastian Bach Mary Sings Charles Wesley Carroll O Otto Nicolai George
April 15, 2020: The Case of Sacco & Vanzetti

Today in True Crime

13:48 min | 11 months ago

April 15, 2020: The Case of Sacco & Vanzetti

"I today is Wednesday April Fifteenth. Twenty twenty on this day in. Nineteen twenty two anarchists Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Van Zeti robbed and killed the paymaster and Security Guard of a Massachusetts Shoe Company. It was an unlikely case to make international news but the Sonko Vans Eddie. Trial would become one of the most famous in American history as well as a landmark case in forensic crime detection welcome to today and true crime. Apar- cast original. I'm Vanessa Richardson. And today I'm joined by our guest host. Greg Poulsen. Thank you Vanessa. It's always so wonderful to host with you and hello today into crime listers. I'm positively thrilled to join today. Listeners might recognize Greg from a few podcast shows we host together including serial killers cults and our newest show secret societies. Every week we examined history's most exclusive organizations and try to shine a light on the truth behind these mysterious groups so far we've looked at mysterious groups like the skull and bones the Rosa Croutons and the Hellfire club and their rumored attempts at world domination. Today Greg's here to discuss some of the historical aspects of the story while I'll cover the narrative. Let's go back to South braintree Massachusetts on April Fifteenth. Nineteen Twenty Fred. Parmenter a slater marill paymaster and Sandro Bearer Deli. His Guard left the shoe companies offices just before three PM. It was quiet Thursday afternoon on Pearl Street after all. Everyone was waiting on their pay. The streets might get a bit livelier. Once the men had some money in their pockets and there was plenty of cash to go around and the two hefty payroll boxes parmenter and Barrow Deli Carried fifteen thousand seven hundred seventy six dollars and fifty one cents to be precise that's worth over two hundred thousand dollars today. Parmenter new cargo was precious hence Barrow Delis presence but this was a familiar route and it wasn't far to the slater memorial shoe factory. Neither man thought much of the stroll as they made their way through town. Unfortunately they wouldn't have long to think anything at all to men approached them pistols in hand. They didn't say anything didn't make a demand didn't even give Barry Deli time to pull out his own weapon. The pair simply pulled their triggers. Fred Parmenter and Allesandro Berar Deli went down. This was Pearl Street. Quiet but not deserted. Bystanders stood appalled as the assailants grabbed the payroll boxes. Out of the Feldman's hands. They watched frozen as a car pulled up to the curb and they barely had time to note the plates before the killers through their boxes into the car and sped off into the afternoon. The quiet town of braintree was appalled. They whispered about who the men might have been. They looked Italian but no one knew for sure. And it wasn't until two days later when investigators found the getaway car abandoned in the nearby woods that the police thought they might have a lead on the killers they the car to a man named Mike Kubota suspected of a similar crime in another Massachusetts town but Boda new. The police were coming for him and before they could get their hands on him. He fled to Italy two of his associates however were apprehended by police. Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vans Eddie. Neither had records at the time of their arrest. Soko worked at a shoe factory. Van Zeti was a fish peddler but both were carrying loaded guns at the time of their arrest and that made all the difference. The particular weapon of interest was Soko's a thirty two caliber handgun. The kind used at the braintree crime. Plus it was loaded with bullets from the same manufacturer as those studying parmenter and bear our Delis bodies. This did not look good for Soko Van Zeti. They were charged with murder. But these two men were anarchists. They believed social. Justice would only come with the destruction of governments and they weren't about to take the US government's flimsy accusations lying down. They put up the fight of the century and make sure the public knew they were fighting for more than their freedom. This was a battle for the rights of radicals around the world. Coming up the Sako Van. Zeti trial becomes national news and a landmark ballistics case high listeners. The launch of our new podcast series supernatural with Ashley. Flowers has been an incredible success. Were so happy to welcome to the podcast family and can't thank you enough for checking out the show. If you haven't had a chance to listen yet I highly recommend you head over to the supernatural feed and subscribe today every Wednesday Ashley. Flowers takes on a different crime or mystery or the most fitting theory isn't always the most conventional the first episode has been my favorite so far. Were the deaths of two Brazilian men a result of making contact with spirits on Mars. Get closer to the truth than ever before. Regarding the mystifying lead masks case but you'll also find some other fascinating stories. Did four friends have a highly unusual encounter during a camping trip in Maine. Sort through the out of this world. Circumstances surrounding the allegations incident was Italian. Theoretical physicist et Cetera by Arana's disappearance caused by his discovery of time travel or was it something more sinister each week Ashley takes on the strange and surreal to explain some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences if you're the kind of person who questions everything you'll love this. Show follow supernatural with Ashley. Flowers free on spotify. Or wherever? You get your podcasts now. Back to the story on April Fifteenth Nineteen twenty two unknown assailants robbed and killed the paymaster and Security Guard of a Massachusetts Shoe Company. Through a chain of circumstantial evidence. The police were able to apprehend two suspects. Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo van Zeti. But it was the weapon they found on. Soko that convinced them. They had their man. He was carrying the same gun and bullets used in the murder. My guest host. Greg is here to discuss the context around the crime and the ensuing Soko Vendetta trial. Thanks Vanessa the braintree shooting occurred in the midst of a struggle between the radical left and right across the world we like to remember the nineteen twenty s as a decade of roaring parties. And it was but it was also part of the Inter war period that would see the rise of both communism and fascism setting the stage for World War. Two the early twenties saw anti-immigrant and anti-communism sentiment running high across America Psycho and been Zeti were Italian artists. They were acutely aware of these tensions and where they were arrested for the braintree shooting. They knew that their best hope of squashing. The case was to rally the anger stemming from these broader issues and use it to their advantage they were. They insisted to the press being persecuted for being both Italian and anarchists after all the case against them rested heavily on the gun and bullets. Sokha was carrying at the time of his arrest. That was far from conclusive evidence that he'd shot Fred Parmenter and Alessandra Deli much less than Zeti had been involved and what had made the police pick their suspects up in the first place. A flimsy link with another wanted man. Investigators had never been able to turn up any evidence of the stolen money either. None of this was fair. Soko infants said he insisted and the world listened. Their case made international headlines. Millions of dollars were donated to Soko invent said he's defense by leftists in the US and abroad and that's tens of millions in today's dollars protests sprung up in their support in response to the case the American embassy in Paris was even bombed and a second bomb intended for the embassy in Lisbon was intercepted. The small town Massachusetts case was suddenly one of the most watched in history trial commenced. There was plenty to look at no well-funded defense brought out almost one hundred witnesses to testify on behalf of sock Olympian City. They lampooned eye witnesses for their crude statements that the killers were Italian looking and finally they tried ballistics experts. Who INSISTED SOKO's weapon hadn't shot the fatal bullets the weren't however the only ones the prosecution brought in its own ballistics experts who claimed just the opposite their tests concluded that Sacco's Gun did part mentor and Berra Deli. Part of the problem here was that both sides were working with primitive forensic instruments. The science was still knew that didn't have precision on its side yet. The judge and jury were left to decide which of the reports was more convincing. They went with the prosecution. The pair were found guilty on July. Fourteenth Nineteen Twenty one and sentenced to death soccer. Ben Said He. Supporters were appalled and has Soko invent said. He waited on death row. They refuse to quiet their support particularly in the light of conflicting ballistics reports. They were convinced that the outcome of the trial was the result of politically motivated. Prejudice ballistics aside. The evidence was simply flimsy controversially. The men remained on death row for years in one thousand nine hundred eighty five. Another convicted criminal claimed he'd committed the murder with his gang and support surged. Even more. The pressure was so intense that in one thousand nine hundred eighty seven. The Massachusetts governor ordered an inquiry to advise him on the anarchists clemency requests. But unfortunately for Soko in Ben City forensic science had made some progress since nineteen twenty. The new comparison microscope was used to retest. Soko's gone and proved beyond a doubt that it was indeed. The murder weapon. The governor was satisfied on August. Twenty third nineteen twenty-seven Soko in Ben City were executed by electric ballistics in the end. Settled the case setting the stage for many modern criminal trials. But this result doesn't mean the nineteen twenty trial was fair. The ballistics weren't certain and soccer. Inventory were condemned death anyway plus there was never any concrete evidence tying than zero to the case. Massachusetts officially recognized that in nineteen seventy seven fifty years after the Anarchists Executions Governor Michael Dukakis stated that the pair were treated on justly. I'm Vanessa Richardson. Thanks again to Greg Poulsen for joining me here today and every week on secret societies. Thanks for having me. You can find our show. Secret societies on spotify. Or wherever you listen to podcasts. For information on the impact of the Sokoll Vans Eddie. Trial check out the episode of unsolved murders. True Crime Stories on the Wall Street bombing. Today in true crime was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios original it is executive produced by Max Cutler. Sound designed by one Boorda with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Aaron Larson. This episode of today in True Crime was written by Nora Patel. I'm Vanessa Richardson. Hi Listeners. If you haven't heard it already. I highly recommend you check out the new podcast original series supernatural with Ashley Flowers every Wednesday. Take a deep dive into the strange and surreal to find the truth behind some of the world's most bizarre true crime occurrences search for supernatural with Ashley Flowers in the spotify APP. And listen free today.

Soko Bartolomeo Van Zeti Greg Poulsen Nicola Sacco Massachusetts Ashley Flowers murder Vanessa Richardson braintree Twenty twenty spotify Massachusetts Shoe Company Fred Parmenter Soko Security Guard soccer US South braintree Massachusetts Sandro Bearer Deli Barrow Deli
We Didnt Start the Fire

The Energy Gang

51:03 min | 1 year ago

We Didnt Start the Fire

"And it helps us learn more about who are audiences so we can serve up more relevant content and to be totally transparent it helps us find the right advertisers for this show as well so pick up the hey before we get things going a quick favor for you we've got a survey for listeners of the energy gang and the interchange it's right there in the show notes in it'll just take you a few minutes it is anonymous took no chances it cut power to seven hundred thousand points of connection at homes and businesses the shut offs worked right there are no major wildfires in high risk areas but nearly big projects for tech companies like apple find out more at Sun Gro Power Dot com well a lot more people are asking the same question in California after two million people in PG new territory had their power disconnected as part of this thing called the public safety maybe so this is the first time the Washington nationals have ever made it that far in the playoffs or to the world series right absolutely exciting times for you what assessments finally the trump administration lifts a tariff exemption on by facial solar panels so what are these two sided solar modules exactly why are they becoming so from Green Tech media this is the energy gang weekly debates and discussions on the fast changing world of energy I'm Steven on energy in Bethesda Maryland is Jigger Shaw he's the president of generate capital Jagger is on a mission to impeach the leadership at his utility PEPCO ended outage and how long would it last so it picks up all of the kitchen loads and then the sump pump mainly and then like a few lights around the house the power shut off high winds were creating a strong wildfire risk and pge which is already facing tens of billions of dollars in liabilities from last year's fires ocular now why have one side when you can have two that's what I say and that's why I keep two of my favorite pundits by my side every week in the fine city of Washington DC is Catherine Hamilton she's chair of thirty eight North Solutions Hey Katherine how are you I am so ready for the show and by the show I mean the world series contributing editor with GTM. I'm coming to you from Boston. Welcome the world's fifth largest economy looked a little more like a developing country last week as PG cut power to millions of people in Northern California we knew this was coming the growing safety and financial risk wildfires in the state I mean mass power outages will become more common but in this ace PG and he is getting slammed the way it handled things we'll dig into the scope the fallout and the solutions then dyson made a big business out of selling four hundred dollar hairdryer both this podcast and the inner change our other show at GTM our sponsors have no impact on the editorial content of this show so just please know that as we have these conversation player across the Americas it's got more than three gigawatts shipped in the past two years alone Sandro invaders of the backbone of some of the most innovative projects in the world from floating TV too impeachment. Is that sucking up all the air in Washington outside of the ballpark yet. So I think everybody is kind of breathing into a paper bag at this point but I'm trying to keep my eyes focused on get some energy gang gear thank you so much and thanks goes to our sponsor Sandro Sandro is the leading solar inverted supplier by volume in the world and is now a leading it's actually funny enough repaired my relationship with PEPCO it's PG need that's the problem the fight continues it just moves onward so you have Solar Battery System I'm curious as we think about the PG and e. outages what loads could year system pick up an extent one is blasting the way PG handled the situation and that's partly what we're going to talk about so I a quick disclosure that we've mentioned on the show in the past PG and he has been sponsored ars in five hundred dollars vacuum cleaners but couldn't make a high end electric car work we'll talk about why dyson wrote off its plans just a couple years after writing off one of its big battery nations they are independent from any sponsor messaging so catherine what happened here what was the PG plan to shut off power and how did it get although yes so as you said they had a decision to make should we turn power off preemptively where we think there are specific hotspots and there are tens of thousands of customers as opposed to hundreds of thousands and because of the weather reports for wind and heat they really could see a lot more maps you can look at to see where the potential wildfire hotspots are and do we do this prevent preemptively and they have done this in the past but in much smaller swath so of a hot spot and decided to turn off as you said you know almost two million people in total impacted but seven hundred thousand or so turned off and would have failed and sparked fires if they had not turned the power off because the wind was so strong so so they were trying to prevent loss of the people to get information about what was going on and it was just this confluence of events that really came out as a very poor performance life which they were able to do much more successfully certainly than they had with other fires most notably Campfire where we can talk about PG unease it was kinda like this perfect storm so to speak of not only was the power out their call centers were flooded and their website kept crashing so there wasn't an ability for Miss Management over the years and mismanagement of this event but this is definitely a damned if you do damned if you don't situation I mean PG has a lot of equipment that is is on their part although I am hearing also and this is not confirmed by PG any but I'm just hearing through the grapevine that there upwards of fifty conductors that coming at some point so I was actually in California when the event started and as an employer of sixty people plus aging that is presenting a severe wildfire risk and it just has to de energize many of these lines and high risk areas and when they it sounds like they did it pretty wrong we've known this has been coming for a while we've they've been saying to regulators hey we're going to have to shut off the power but still you have a counterfactual right you don't necessarily know if they're gonNA cause wildfires but when the wildfire don't happen we can assume that the the shutoff worked but everyone's super agree that they lost power for days and it hits so many people and you have you know tens hundreds of millions of dollars of lost revenue for small business they mismanaged this power shut off because of poor communication because they couldn't handle the traffic on their website so jigger what did PG do wrong here even though we knew an event like this was the word that they were going to lose power two hours before it happened right and they were checking our employees are pretty smart so they were checking says people can't go to school like it's a real problem and PGA is taking the brunt of that criticism so it's GonNa be a problem no matter what even if they do this right the problem is you are coming from Marin County San Francisco Oakland all sorts of places right we didn't actually have any idea and so I think what PG did wrong on the communication side is that they just didn't give people notice and we've got families who have you know like kids who need that everyone was trying to call in I mean you know one of our colleagues at Bloomberg you know basically said that that she had to file reports and what not on her cell phone and so all of the cell phone towers were completely jammed because you know extra help and so you know like there was no really good data as to where do you take your kids if they need emergency generators or if they need equipment like if like if you're an elderly twelve when we have massive outages along the eastern seaboard and into the mid West from Hurricane Sandy many of the problems online they were trying to figure out the resolution of the J. pags that they were using was so weak that when you zoomed in you couldn't tell whether your house was on this side of the map or that's out of the map has all of this capacity didn't have the capacity we thought it did this is what feels so frustrating and infuriating in person who's on a CPAP for instance like you know that's something that you plug in to help you sleep at night to make sure you don't die in the Millia sleep like where do you go for that and of the emergency shelters said well we're only open until eleven PM and then we're shutting down you're like what are you talking about that's not how this works and so the part I mean the problem onto customers customers waited days and days or weeks without really much word from the utility the Utility had poor maps were communication problems the utilities were not able to communicate where outages were how when they were coming when the power would be coming back on no one's routers at home on the Internet stuff worked and so so the economy really did grind to a halt so the the area that we know as Silicon Valley than I know who is coming to work when they are coming to work what childcare situations we're going to be whether the schools are going to be open or not right and so so some of our employees I still can't get its act together on basic information dissemination we haven't come nearly far enough and I think this is what's most infuriating talk about how resiliency was becoming more important for utility planning and one of the core components was just simply information gathering and dissemination it's just a lack of information available and one of the big things that came out of the Post Sandy world was utility said we're GONNA get a lot better at giving us information about this situation is that we are in a new world we've known that this world is emerging and getting scarier and still the basics of what you need to do you are customers and many of the utilities that impacted by Sandy did in fact put new systems into place and I remember two years after Sandy I wrote this e book the tax revenue is actually being generated right because the government loses all this tax revenue for being down for five days right and so I just think that there's an assumption it's worse than you're imagining right because think about how many people live paycheck to paycheck so if if you have power outages for five days those people don't systems work certainly in have protocol but they also need to I mean this is going to have to require a lot of collective action to get people to help them make their system go to work right and so they're not making money they can't pay rent because they just lost one sixth of their income for the month and in general a situation like this haven't been covered yes even I would say it's not just communications protocol and it's even before sandy so about a dozen years ago San Diego Gas and and and it's clear now seven years later even though we have a planned event and we've known that this is coming that a utility like pg more modular so that when they cut power because they're going to have to do that they can't just let wildfire start when they cut power they will be able to isolate electric was facing the same issue with wildfires and they said okay here's what we're going to do we're GonNa make our system much more modular so that we will be able to isolate lines and only cut a few people rather than hundreds of thousands of people now they have a much smaller service territory certainly by orders of magnitude than PG and yet they were able to do it in adjust and that was I'm half did some extraordinary work on this after the two thousand and three New York City blackouts or two dozen to and and he basically looked at tax of years ago and PG and E. has known this is GonNa Happen has been it's been increasing more and more and at this point they have to do two things one is to make sure there's communications that everyone has slack in the system and that slack is not there are pretty much everyone is running super tight and if they don't get income for six days a lot of small businesses a few times a year these mass power shut off that could last days if not over a week yeah and they're looking at it could be fifteen or more a year or two to five days each your power company to just shut you off at will yeah I think that when you take this to the logical extreme right remember you start with the until it actually happens and you saw a lot of customers that were caught off guard people who are totally unprepared for it and the lack of communication made things even worse and this has real world impact communities rather than having enormous was of the state out well I mean I think that you know just going back to the previous thought from you steven this is an enormously impactful for the entire California economy and all these businesses and people that jigger mentioned and I think what thus have been talking about this for a while so in energy circles we've known that these public safety power shut offs are coming but it doesn't become real but haven't had really the amount of customer uptake the one would wanna see and now I mean there's a lot of customers interested in the solution people are offering or even CCA's right you've got that new company up like right which is a merger of five different companies you now have a whole bunch of companies who have solutions rahm Emanuel you know quarter rounding never waste a crisis but when you think about all the companies that were talking about whether it's micro grid companies I think there's going to be there's going to be a need to bring everybody together or you're going to have mass defection because it's not okay for the for imagine new home construction starting next year in California is required to have solar on every single home you could imagine Lanar and a lot of these other homebuilders saying you know what go out of business their landlords are not gonna you know say well you don't pay the rent this month so how long are people going to be able to tolerate this energy geeks awesome bucks for our house so this will of course accelerate some of those trends but there's a lot of debate about what the short term policy implications revenue from the government the government by SAC code and he was saying the government should actually strengthen certain parts of the economy to make sure that a critical of that approach saying why are you thinking about these short-term penalties when you should be encouraging them to take that money and invest it into hardening infrastructure and getting more you know micro grids and distributed energy systems developed to improve resilience thoughts on governor newsome's response there statute and I think the governor's going to have to make a decision as to whether he forces the CPU to create an exemption for those communities or neighborhoods whether it makes sense to be pushing for these penalty rebates or were or if not where should the money be spent. Well look I mean politics is politics I think the in them and you're gonNA see a lot more response to you know basic advertising and that kind of stuff but I think we're this might end up going eventually is this community saying we dr and Governor Gavin Newsom came out and said PG should offer rebates to everybody who is impacted and energy experts where DP horizon sort of oil spill 'cause that's where we are right I mean at the end of the day like this is untenable you can't keep shutting off power and if the governor's office I am I would say with PG and he is that he just didn't really do a major drive run and so when this occurred and they and they expanded the territory so much WanNa be Wanna be taken off of PG any like you know we just WanNa be able to control ourselves and people are going to say well that's not allowed under the monopoly acts it has a financial impact that can be devastating for some people as you said Jigger so how long are people going to be tolerating this if we see says well you know we prevent all these wildfires we could have had fifty wildfires look at all this data that we show I'm a hundred percent sure the Gavin newsom won't get reelected or at like of course the Utah the governor's GonNa come on the side of people who've lost two hundred bucks a food or other perishables during the crisis so like I you know I don't know that I want PGA knee is saying is we have a plan for dealing with this but they're planning for resilience may not actually be what customers and communities want for resilience so did and so like so that's what he's worried about is he saying like how do I show that I have real leadership here how do I bring in czar into time the court encourage the bondholders to also file a plan so they're going to be a couple of different plans out there that they're going to be looking at in the end the California Public Utilities Commission used to do the scope of these there clearly unequipped to manage the scope of these outages and of course as you mentioned there's a political price to be paid if this keeps happening right like if you're a mayor of town the vast majority of mayors in California own their own water utility whether they have fourteen thousand we want our entire community to Microsoft grid and we're building it from scratch anyway so it's pretty easy to do and in fact that feature is why we can charge an extra twenty people were not clear on why exactly it was happening PG is trying to do better but they clearly are unequipped to to spike and Nissan leaf sales right but if the water utility of these mayors wants to take over the electric grid without basically violating the monopoly statute he is had filed for reorganization through bankruptcy and so the court is having to decide on their re organization plan and yet at the same with coalitions and companies every single day who we are fighting just for the right to do business in California and we have the solutions that we can get into the small ball politics of what to do a two hundred bucks I think the bigger thing is whether the governor actually has a plan you know Allah like the artery storage plus energy efficiency plus electric vehicles remember you know Nissan has already approved all of their vehicles vehicle to great. I wouldn't be surprised if you had a big sequences will the breaking point our cities the breaking point our mayors I think this fallacy that we haven't electric monopoly is is the problem which right now president Mary Bell Bachelor is saying she's very very aligned with the governor on his approach to where the buck stops there this ep some residents or whether they have four hundred thousand residents the water utility can easily deploy all of the stuff solar plus you know like they start doing the hard stuff internally to be able to make themselves more resilient and that's the beginning of the end in also I would just say I work this situation showed just how fragile everything is in California the power shut offs were communicated in a disastrous way they need to let those who want to come in and innovate do that while that is the the dirty little secret of California right is that in response to the energy crisis of we'll help pay Jeanie and that will help their system and their consumers and I would say they have a model that they deployed through s chip which is the Self Generation Incentive program Russian the governor isn't going to say to people look you lost two hundred dollars of food in your frigerator and Freezer and that the utilities not GonNa pay for stories of the year so stay tuned on this one we're going to press the pause button here for just a moment and talk about our sponsor son grow son grow is are there but they could massively increase that program they could allow many more participants they could do public private partnerships and things like green banks to drive investment but talking about it now so the commission and all of the structures of government in California need to actually allow innovators to come in and do their jobs and offer solutions a government that says I'm on top of PG knee and I'm writing them every single day to reassure people that this is getting fixed well on remember right now pj then it will feed into the State House it will feed into the boardroom at pg any so I guess the question is what is the breaking point is it GonNa come sooner than we expected and what are the Roy very easily and the California public utility commission has consistently thought micro grids are you know this is all nascent technology will get to it eventually will you know that she has to make the decision in the end as to what the plan is going to be for PG and E. and I think it is not a foregone conclusion that pgn e survives what is the breaking point here then one megawatt tech Rin to facility in Boulder Nevada it's developed by Swinnerton renewables and it's using son grow converters and trackers that are on the cutting edge of renewable procurement that includes apple when apple announced its operations were powered by one hundred percent renewable energy in two thousand eighteen CEO. Tim Cook back on the wall mount and like I actually vacuum five times more than I did before. I'm sure everyone in the house appreciates that so the reason why dyson is this time of year well what a mess more of a mess than I even imagined definitely shaping up to be one of the biggest and most consequential exchequer and cutting edge by facial modules you're going to hear US talk about facial modules later in the show and as part of the project five megawatts is available for NBA energy customers to subscribe said we gotTa do better we can do even more and they said they were committed to pushing the envelope on forward-looking uses of renewable energy and that includes the two hundred and fifty Katherine what's the most you've ever spent on a desk lamp Oh Gosh Pray Lake Thirty Bucks from target would you buy one for five hundred dollars no just rapidly growing around the world that has eighty seven Gigawatts of invert irs deployed across the globe and in the US it's growing rapidly as well it's working with some of the largest companies tens of millions of dollars into rnd to make quiet cordless hairdryers and vacuums and air purifiers Until October tenth it had plans to do since we've always had like hand me downs and all sorts of other stuff but this thing is extraordinary you know like you can lift it in your hand it's really easy to just like put the same for a high end electric car a car that was potentially going to cost a hundred thousand dollars that's according to reports but the company could urging eight hand back and I have to say it's the best purchase I've ever made I am notoriously cheap when it comes to these kinds of things that they allowed low income consumers to begin to participate in and they know that this program works on low income has only a small slice of whose impact appeared you know sort of process through the California Energy Commission which is all you know sort of one off pilots and you know we've railed against this for a long time on the podcast in terms of companies and solutions while people don't like it they can take the old jigger shod vice and pack up their car and move to a different state right trigger while you know Reno is Nice are so expensive is because it puts a ton of our in D. money behind these products and it doesn't skimp on design they look pretty sleek the batteries last for a long time there you will dyson has one for five hundred that sounds ridiculous yeah I don't shop at Dyson and I get all of my vacuum cleaners from of the early two thousands California has become harder to innovate within not easier to innovate within and so to the extent that your program is chosen eggs list jigger what's the most you've ever spent on a vacuum so I did end up spending the seven hundred dollars at the end for the Dyson I think the early functional up for debate about whether it's worth the money but you know that's the lot of people love him the company's famous for putting millions of dollars into rnd you so they can take part in the project as well son grow isn't just innovating when it comes to buy facial solar panels the company has also heavily invested with energy storage and it's inverted due to the California now has to see that they are not actually this bastion of innovation in terms of deployment wh where they might be a Basham innovation yes you're listening on and tap that link right there in the show notes to fill out the survey and you'll qualify for a swag giveaway to so some some lucky listeners will then PG knee gets hollowed out from the inside outraged at some point like that's how the breaking point occurs as when people don't trust that someone else is going to take care of it are integrated into two hundred megawatt hours of storage projects across the US find out more at Sun Gro power dot com like the California solar initiative or the ship program within batteries then you're in the clear but to the extent that you have a good idea that's not yet contemplated you do some they get the project moving in finally gave up so turns out designing household appliances isn't exactly the same thing as making a car jigger were you ever as much a believer in dice attempt to make an electric car as you were in that vacuum cleaner that you bought no I had actually forgotten that they even were talking about making a car like Richard Branson or James Dyson or some of these other people is that they actually care about making a profit like when you think of solid state battery company that ultimately there are a lot of questions about whether the technology performed like the inventor said it did and they actually different solid state battery technology but still it seems like although they're not going to be designing the drive train and building a car they're still focused on better batteries and we solid state batteries and robotics and artificial intelligence and like this is just one investment and even if it didn't pan out there behind schedule they didn't do it right like good for him wrote down the patents on that acquisition in two thousand seventeen so they just decided like the battery doesn't work like we thought it did and they're focusing on for making the attempt why not yeah and some of those new technology innovations could then go into his products or into future cars from other companies on equity and all these other terms like James dyson actually cares about that stuff and so I think he just got swept up in the HOOPLA and in general I think he bought the battery technology because he was needing it for his core products and vacuums and hairdryers and other things and so you know eight percent net margins were his net margins are twenty percent at some point you're like why am I losing money on purpose well it sounds like they didn't even get to that point like that teams were understaffed they were way behind schedule they were so early stage that dyson just gave up pretty early like twenty percents prophets on our iphone wire we like averaging Downer profit margin as a company just to get into cars like we need to just be in the software l. let's do an electric car I can do it better than everybody else and then when he realized that the the world's largest automakers make like an average eleven percent gross margins one point you know what's good for James Dyson I mean he owns the whole company he's putting two point five billion pounds into investing in new technologies like sensors and vision and these are so large you're making three four five hundred billion dollars revenue a year but you make one and a half percent and if you're apple and you're like we make very well may see some interesting research out of dyson on that front yeah I think that this is very similar to apple in the fact that they sort of band in their car efforts and I think they're now just doing self driving car right and the battery innovations are where they thought they had an advantage so it believes in twenty fifteen they bought this company called Sake three ars and I like I just think that the car business is actually a terrible business it's as it is a business where you sell a lot of units and the revenue and saying that's not a great industry in well if you want to learn more about the struggles within dyson and like how there are efforts were about you know standard business school You know one o one and when you look at stuff and you say you know gross margins of acts and operating margins of y and in this case and and how that might have hindered the project read the Bloomberg piece that will link to its from Giles Turner and Peter Robinson they did a great job of outlining need a license that to like VW and make twenty percent margins on that and so I don't begrudge these people for you know taking a hard look at the auto industry and then the history and the the failure of Dyson electric-car efforts I guess the big question is how does this fit into what was happening around the Twenty fifteen twenty seven eighteen timeframe which brought a ton of electric vehicle development much of which we haven't seen shakeout with INTECH companies so we had Apple Uber The fourbillion I'm already worth if I get into electric vehicles and so everyone's like well this is great if I can put two hundred million dollars to work and suddenly become ten billion dollars richer why wouldn't they do that you know a few other companies can remind me which what what other ones there where they were all preparing to build vs we haven't really seen anything interesting materialize well this are going to work for new entrance in the electric vehicle space we saw this huge new deal between riven and Amazon is why you know like I see the world is glass half empty most of the time on this stuff and you'd be skeptical right the reason why everyone was looking at doing electric vehicle the system technology and software they did get an autonomous testing permit at the California Department of Motor vehicle so they are doing a lot of testing and right and then then the reality sets this tough is actually super hard and it's not that easy and you know and and and things shake out like I mean don't think Uber and lyft believe anymore in autonomous vehicles I think both of them now recognize that it's so far away as to not have any influence on their current stock price I just remember like Elon Musk went from like forty dollars a share to two hundred dollars a share right and people are like Oh my God like I could become worth way more than apple may still have a car they're so secretive about everything but this

dyson PEPCO Washington Sandro Sandro GTM Sun Gro Power Dot California Boston Jigger Shaw apple Tim Cook Northern California US Green Tech Washington Steven
Why Changing The Script in Public Health is The Best Way Forward with Sandro Galea, Physician, Epidemiologist, and Public Health Dean at Boston University School of Public Health

Outcomes Rocket

28:32 min | 1 year ago

Why Changing The Script in Public Health is The Best Way Forward with Sandro Galea, Physician, Epidemiologist, and Public Health Dean at Boston University School of Public Health

"Welcome to the outcomes rocket podcast where we inspire collaborative thinking improved outcomes and business success with today's most successful end inspiring healthcare leaders and influencers and now your host Sal Marquez rocket listeners welcome welcome back once again to the outcomes rockets where we chat with today's most successful and inspiring healthcare leaders. I invite you to go to outcomes rocket dot health south to check out our podcast. Leave us a rating and review and let us know what you think about today's guest. His name is Sandra Gallet. He's Dean Sandra Galera. He's a physician epidemiologist and public dean of Health at the Boston University School of Public Health. He is a very very well known for many of his research papers. He's got over seven hundred papers out. There all focused on population health. His work spans the majority of what we're talking about here on every podcast and so it's really exciting to have him carve out some time for us and chat we had <hes> will right who <hes> is with the economic development partnership of Alabama who recommended this book to me and I was just floored by. It loved it. It's called healthier fifty thoughts on on the foundations wins of population health and this is one that I recommend to all the listeners. If you have not read it yet. It's an amazing way. If you're busy person to get your dose use of population health and understand it further each thought is between two and five pages and so there's no need to feel guilty about diving into the content and so there's there's my little hitch for his book which I love and I recommend completely but what I wanna do is open up the microphone to Dean gala and welcome to the podcast welcome to the podcast Sir in your home you on it is a pleasure and so you've had a a really extensive road that F- has brought you to where you're at today Sandro. What would you say was the spark that got chew interested in health. I grew up in a small Mediterranean island of Malta. So I grew up this way and then I left the university in <hes> I was always interested in health and as an immigrant when you're interested in health the only thing that you know you can do is be a doctor so road ultra wrote my <hes> my early Early Childhood Than Adolescence I knew was going to be altered because I was interested in hell so I imitate the Canada went to medical school in Canada did residency and I became a doctor. The doctor Dr after became an acute care doctor emergency medicine and primary care practice in some remote rural places and then I did some since working globally globally in some of those stints involved working place set up in a Guinean working in places like the Philippines and I also particular worked in Somalia and I spent a year on enough working working with doctors. Without Borders Medecins some frontier very cool and <hes> I was the only doctor in around the region with both frantic thousand people regionical trump's land and <hes> <hes> while I was there I was doing medicine acute care medicine every day and it was becoming in there will be injured <unk> fix them in many respects that was doing the epitome of medicine what do most trying to do helping people get better. I remember having this feeling that once I left nothing was going onto change that I was doing some good hope those some good hotels helping people but once I left nothing was going to change because maybe there'll be another doctor from the borders maybe naught but essentially nothing fundamentally was changing. It was causing people to get sick and thinking must be a better way now. The truth is I did not noah way. I was trained at the University of Toronto Medical School. Which is the Classic Medical Training. I was trained to be a good doctrine to nick people who are sick make them healthy healthy again but I had no understanding all no training in nope perspective on how to keep people healthy to begin with and I thought there must be a way of doing Inga's so I went back to school I <hes> I was a full-fledged physician working and I said to go back to school when I went back and did a master's in public health in Banja the doctorates and then Mike Russell my career history the bin Population Health and it's been in trying to understand how it is that that we can create a healthier world. That's been my journey. That's a beautiful journey so you went from the front lines this passion for health frontline physician explored Lord Third World Country Medicine and just found this gravitational pull toward how can we make the foundations of health better and and so here you are today day <hes> Dean Galera just as a thought leader and population health. What would you say a hot topic. That should be on every medical leaders agenda today. I think I think everybody who is in medicine and health. Today should be asking themselves the question. How can we make sure that everybody dies healthy now. What do I mean by that this assume for a second but so unique perspective everybody dies healthy. We are a it <hes> you and I saw live as long as we can as healthy as we can and then one day Assam so that perspective is a very different perspective than a perspective that says but we're trying to do is catch people once they have disease and restore them to health and prolonged disease in a way the extra moves to help what we want to create train healthiest possible world now when you say that to yourself use Turkey about health differently because oddly you realize is that the locus of health is not me. It's not you. The locus of health is the world around us. You realize that if when you want to keep everyone is heaviest bustle as long as possible. We need to create a world degenerates health. And what does it look like an ask the question. What does the looks up. What are the politics politics that we need to put in place to generate. What is the environmental health but the people relationships <unk>? What is the compassion meeting to make sure that we generate health all of a sudden the locus shifts away from the individual to the world around us. I actually think that's the hardest question that we face right now. In help in I would argue. That's the most important Bhushan and unfortunately it's also the question that we pay attention yeah. It's a very insightful a message that he shared their Sandro and as I think about that you know it definitely does create a shift in the way that that I think about healthcare to die healthy healthy and why do you think we have this challenge of not focusing on on what you just mentioned. I think there is an American script of how we think of health and if I may I think it extends to deliver value us because you have used the word healthcare. Yes you said at the beginning the PODCAST is about healthcare in rates now in your question to me we used word healthcare and I'm sure you didn't even think about that is because we are so used to thinking about healthcare as interchangeable with help two very very different concerts healthcare is about you and I both need once. We're sick right than we want to have great <unk> about it when we're sick will be sick at some point in our lives. We want good healthcare. We want good medicine to restore out in no way. Am I saying this little boards. I don't want to understood. I Think Medicine <hes> curative care is very important. However the narrative is so dominated by Medicine Curative Care that were healthcare slips would've been noticing so we need to change the script and we need to sit on but health. I would argue that your podcast is health. Actually ultimately interest engineering an an healthcare is one approach to if you are interested in generating unique to think about place and nature you think about knowledge that we need to generate help me the humility to recognize. There are a lot of things we don't have a hung jury help. We need to help people structured or choices. Better me to make sure that we have the freedom to live in a helpful health away. We need to make sure that there is a fair unjust environment that can promote health and we need to ultimately think about the values that promote health as a public good that is we'll need think about where we think about that super interesting delay and so health versus healthcare and for the listeners that thinking through are these profound thoughts that Dean delay sharing. What is it that we can do whether you're industry executive or or your provider to think about this in a bigger way health is different than healthcare and what can you do to start providing the resources the thoughtfulness care the compassion to help people live healthier lives? A big problem that I see England is just the way that the health system incentives are positioned their position to to drive arrive that curative care that that you mentioned rather than the preventative care. What are your thoughts on on shifts there that needs to happen. I think that's an excellent question limited to be answered. I by example favorite examples is what some hospitals have done to reduce their costs but also the burden <hes> of acute asthma attack scene emergency so some hospital surround. The country had the forward looking vision to say. We're getting these execute. Asthma attacks happened with vulnerable populations particularly when the weather is such simple <unk> Hoffman stifling in urban areas and they said we're never going to changed yeah. It's costing US money unless we go into the community into people's homes and for example provider conditioners now by I think you would degree in most listeners would agree the air conditioners waiting or conditioners is not really healthcare. Brightwood is structuring the environment so that people do not get cute as <unk> beginning. This has been published has been shown to reduce costs for as well as keeping so. I didn't think that the incentives needs to be as Mr Line as we think they are now. Having said that there is a real challenge with the incentives neither is a real challenge that many healthcare systems continue to be incentivized on a sick person basics incentivize restore people to health rather than to keep people healthy and that will need to change over time but we are seeing movements towards it over time. Global models are ultimately movements in the direction. ACO's movement movements in this direction. They remain small efforts in the big scheme of things but it core. I cannot help but feel that the appeal of this perspective is such that eventually it has to prevail yes and it's is fascinating this idea of an air conditioner and you pay you know whatever four hundred dollars for an air conditioner and you can avoid a patient from really having those attacks and even the costs on the system so the broadening of what can be paid for with. Medicare Medicaid dollars is definitely a question that should be addressed address over in <hes> in in Washington. It certainly should be and this is a complicated question. There's no question in large part because we already have <unk> system. It's set up their incentives Santos. There's momentum there are ways in which we do things in anytime you start thinking about shifting systems it involves a lot of people involves a lot of particular interest but this is why I come onto the notion that we need a change in <unk> the change in language achievement conversation around health there is at core one of the things that made it the past several years is a fundamental mismatch in this country and the mismatch is false. We spent more on health and opposing. AC two-word health because I'M GONNA get to it's not reading more on health than any other country in the world all your listeners notice about the third more effect mcnutt just a little bit more a lot more but we also have worst health indicators than other hand countries known not comparing the fluid countries fair comparison brought to appear countries. We have worse health indicators so there is this mismatch that we spend more and get less in arguably we would not accept a mismatch in any other sector and in fact there's no other sector you can think of has the same example so the question is why is that what's going on why we're spending so much and getting so little. Is there something wrong with America's. Another isn't the answers <unk>. The answer is is that we spend on curative care. We spend on curative care can be do not spend on this. There's that ultimately we need to invest and to keep people healthy as well as spending on curative care to restore the health when we get sick so we have this enormous mismatch mismatch. Well you make sure you generate the science to in the end. He makes sure that you communicate you. Communicate so that we can change the language and full absolutely and what are the things. That's a theme here that that you've mentioned Sandra's. This thought of changing the script. It's something that that I think about in my day to day as an individual just GonNa what's the script. What's my story. Hey how's that affecting what I'm doing with my family with my work but there's also a thing that you do really well and I captured from from reading. Your book is just this this amazing amazing ability to to capture society sort of as a body in itself and society American Society also has a script and changing changing that script is the opportunity for anybody in public health as well as at a hospital. What would you say is the way that we can do that. How do we change the script a different way. Some changes scrip into two ways of come to my mind is number. One is a stories illustrate live when even use and number the two is by producing the right evidence so let me start with the story. Maybe tell a story if you don't mind Jeff plays. We like stories. Okay so story is of a is that the Blues Man Blind Willie Johnson Language Ounces lose many can you can find his work out there and <hes> blindly. Johnson's latest disclaimed to fame was that the one of his songs was included in the golden disk was sent off the space on one of the spacecraft's that went out has never gonNA come back in case aliens come to US and again here. It's language also Johnson was born at the turn of the twentieth century fix the story or is that he was blinded by having lied thrown in his face when he was three in a domestic violence incident so he grew up lying and for indexes to learn how to play. He made a living busking very good living living he got married. He's living in a fairly ramshackle house which burned down and his wife had no money so that kept apps living in the burnt-out. Shell is house in his early Forties Rangel Johnson Malaria. His wife took him to hospital and the story is that he was turned away from it was unclear whether he was turned away because he was poor because he was black he was blind and then he got now suppose for a second that there was an effective tale that he could have taken for his malaria right away or shot. That could have taken a good of cured him everybody listening to this will realize that blind. Willie Johnson was GonNa die sooner or later later anyway something was going to get. It wasn't just malaria that killed language. It was malaria but it was also covered. It was domestic violence. It was racism. It was homelessness. All of those factors also have language in when you tell the story I think most rational people realize we should definitely do something malaria but we should also do something about domestic violence about racism but homelessness but access to care and that is what it means to create a healthier world the US ignored a better. You don't ignore the treatment but you also realize that unless we can also deal with these accumulating risks. We are never going to create healthy so he asked me. What can we do so number one is I think we tell the stories of what it requires to create health officials and the second thing I think is we need to focus our science. On generating this <unk> focus science on showing the that public transportation implemented on large-scale will end up saving saving lives and saving money to generate more and more evidence that shows that the earned income expert will result in saving mothers and children's loss when eating create data this shows. It's creating affordable housing can double people's quality of life assessments of their own health. These are all examples from giving on which there are data there are many many other aspects of reading hello world on which we do not have their so telling the stories creating the evidence that could that's such a beautiful <hes> response and and I think a wonderful way of doing it and so you're exposed to a lot of these things in your role with what you do. Engla- A lot of the people that are in the front line like you were at one point. Just don't get that exposure. What would you say the best way to hear these stories and to figure out what the possibilities are is because your wealth of knowledge. How do we connect what you do with the implementers in the front lines are doing. I think that's what you're doing so let's have a podcast me on so my job is to tell the story and your job is to be sure that everybody listens to what cast man ah the that's such a great call out and this is exactly why we started outcomes rocket and it's a really great idea and I love what you've gone into here and so the thought is maybe we create some sort of forum where people can go and and hear stories of what it is that actually works and changing the script. That's just is something that really resonates with me. Sandra and I'm GonNA think about how we implement this even further to empower those in frontlines listening to this podcast to make decisions that are going to work best for the populations but also them as people and individuals. I'm in to help you. Let me know thank you so much. I'm going to take you up on it <laughter> so Sandra. Can you give us a an example of potentially a population health effort that has gone awry and was learned from it because a lot of the listeners are working hard and they're working a lotta hours to dive deeper and provide solutions in population health. Can you give an example of of a mistake that you've seen and what they could learn from it so they don't repeat it yet big picture. I think it'd be richer many efforts its population health improvement that fail in the ones that fail my estimation looking at the data are typically efforts that aim to tell tell people how to behave the data are clear telling people huckabee bitter. Thou shalt not eat high fat foods. Thou shalt not smoke Shoukri do they just do not work the in fact they might work for a short while and then they stop working so population health efforts that are they would call exhortative exploitative filling finger-wagging. Yes that is not the right way to improve cognition if we would like people to have healthier behaviors to change structures. I'll give you an example. The best example of that is the incredible success story of the reduction in death from car accidents in the past hundred years years people die per vehicle. Mile Driven Two hundred twenty times less than one hundred years ago Madison Amazing Success Amazing now ask you this question are people today. Better drivers were hundred years made it pretty clear united in Boston. I can tell you that they're not thank you myself in that probably but we hit six hundred success we hit success because we create airbags and seat belts in shatterproof glass in the ways for people to pull over in nature. People people don't drink in bribes from religious. That's how we changed it so public health efforts that imagine if one hundred years ago someone said look we have a problem with car accidents won't need to do is when you you fool out. Efforts spend a hundred years people to better would not have nudged our car fidelity. Maybe best little bit nowhere near two hundred twenty five reduction that we have it now so number. I think public publishing efforts fail if they simply tried to target individual behavior because we humans we you and me well. Let's just be real. Speak for myself. We're perfect. We do bad things door cells in it's a matter of changing the world around us so that our choices can help teachers says number one the second mistake. Doc <unk> efforts. Is something a little bit more subtle but I think equally important which is we can aim to improve the health of hope relations in in so doing doing we create health gaps within populations so let me give an example supposing you are responsible for health <unk> supposing say well. One of things I WANNA do is want to increase the rate of Collins. People were fifty problems. Regular colonoscopies reduce the incidence of Uncle Ricky's so you say the colonoscopy rate in this community sixty percent. I want to get up to eighty percent. How do you take up eighty percent while Jesus we do that. Is I wanted to go to everybody who's rich and well house in this community and take they're calling Oscar break to one hundred percents by doing that. My average has been brought to eight but of course you ignore everybody else in everybody. Else's cough drops to fifty percents so you've succeeded in the average but you've now widened the gap and I think that is the really challenged the population health efforts face and I think there's no easy solution for that. I think there's a tension between equity and efficiency which is achieving <unk> utilitarian question but which of these do you most prefer in editing this right now. I think the value questioning complex but I think is something that anybody interested. Population health needs to have in her mind because we need to make sure that we balance the health of the mini with the health of the few that is intrinsic it is intrinsic to the imperatives we have to create healthy populations in knots to make populations at least four Nickelsville. Yeah these are some great lessons and and listeners take these thoughts into consideration as you as you look to implement population health programs where where you're at and if you're a company looking to somehow partner with the providers to do this just keep these thoughts in mind some really great points of wisdom. There and I've taken a lot of notes here. I know that you have to but don't worry if you haven't if you're driving or working out and you could dive into outcomes rocket dot health health slash Sandro. That's outcomes rockets dot health slash. Sandro and you'll be able to get the details here of what we've been talking about so Dingo England. This has been really really interesting are what we do in in the podcast here as we're getting close to the end. Is We build a syllabus on what it takes to be successful all in medicine today it's the one on one or the ABC's of Sandra Galilea in this case so I've got four questions for you. They're going to be lightning round style and then we'll we'll finish with a book that you recommend to the listeners. You Ready Ready Awesome. What's the best way to improve health outcomes investing in all the structures around the liquid healthy. What is the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid the biggest mistake or pitfall to avoid is to think that I I myself and make myself healthy. Take these mistake we can make is by thinking as long as I have enough money to go to the best bustle doctor. I'm going to be healthy because that is realized by not investing in health systems in west. Africa owes some one can Bible in the next day so we mistake is to think about me and the right answers to realize that our health collectively whether we like it or not is interlinked and we have no choice but to invest in creating in looking at health <unk>. That's love that and listeners. If you want to dive deeper into this thought I'll put a link here to Dean Galea's talk on Ted Med he really dives deep into this the thought of me versus we and and the impacts of of that in healthcare so go to the show notes and you'll be able to find that how do you stay relevant as an organization despite constant awesome change the organization stay relevant by following the Gretzky maximum. It don't go where the PUCK is. You go where the Puck is going to beat of course is tricky to know where to pack is going to be but I'm in the context of health. There is little question in my mind that the PUCK is going to be in a place of keeping people healthy for as long as possible in organizations that healthcare organizations that continued to focus strictly on restoring people to health are on the losing side of history history of at what is one area of focus that should drive everything else in your organization think humanity has created organizations as a way of generating rating human capital <unk> organizations are all about the people cite them and at the end of the day organizations are only as strong as the people who make up the organization so area focus ultimately needs to be on developing communication angles people's of those people can best be possibly can in helping new administration achieve its mission and finally at Dean Galeao. What book would you recommend to the listeners on this syllabus. I would recommend the recently released book by Him Walt Whitman and which was pulled the Manley health and training to teach the science of sound and beautiful body which world which was called from writings with more than one hundred where he talked about mini of things that you and I talked about right now that's amazing okay. That's a really great recommendation and listeners take that one down but also in that list Dr Galera. He's he's very humble man but I also WanNa recommend his book which was very inspiring and I know that you'll find inspiring especially. If you're a busy person trying to learn about population health it's called healthier fifty thoughts on the foundations of population health. Pick that one up and also the Walt Whitman on healthcare was the name of that one again the Queen's name. It's called Manley really health in training Manley Health and training and this is the timeless principles of what works right. It's love it so you'll find links to this. This listeners in it just go to the show notes at outcomes rocket dot health slash Sandro and so we're here to the end. This has been so much fun. I'd love if you could just share a closing thought with the listeners and the best place that they could follow. You're get a hold of you. Let me close with the one more story forum as Dina's don't have much time for pets but I have had goldfish okay. I love my critical spending. You're wondering what is going. I'm going to so so I tell my pet goldfish. I want you to be healthy so every day I wanted to swim around your bowl then thanks clockwise sometimes counterclockwise these days and when I feed it a little flaky stuff on top. Don't eat too much. Don't get and when you get sick goldfish. I'm GonNa get you the best goldfish doctor one day I walk into my living room and my goldfish all dead on. Could this be exercise that eat too much doctor and then I realized I forgot to changed changed water and if you don't teach <unk> water doesn't matter what else he do goldfish will not and we article and when we focus only on medicine the same thing happens to us so we ultimately need to create their health by drinking water water is where we live in cities around us rule environments on the air. We breathe the water. Are we drink food. We eat the politics policy shape those conditions that ultimately was great so that's my last now follow me on twitter at AC Sandra Galeao one word and a publish various different places but I always pushed him out on twitter stroke eases falling wonderful up powerful way to end this in this interview Dingo. This has been amazing. I really appreciate you carving out the time for us and <hes> looking forward to keep up with your work. Thank you so much for being on the PODCAST. Thank giving missile. Thanks for listening to the outcomes rocket podcast. These shooter visit us on the Web at W._W._W. Dot Outcomes walking dot com for the show notes resources inspiration and so much more.

Dean Sandra Galera Boston University School of Pu Willie Johnson malaria Dean Population Health Sandro US asthma Canada Sandra Gallet PUCK Medicine Curative Care Somalia Sal Marquez
The Rescue From The Stink Sand

Bedtime Stories With Nennis And Douglas

16:26 min | 7 months ago

The Rescue From The Stink Sand

"No story is. Coal. Though rescue. All the stake. Saad. Boy Douglas. Sophia her and her brother Sun rose favorite place to explore. And camp overnight in Deir Own tent while SP rivers would. No matter. How many times day visited. Sancho and fear had visited spreaders more than a hundred times. They would always find somewhere view to investigate or a new game to play. Spur rivers was Gardai to Bali. The BUELL's Tawini creatures, no bigger than your finger who looked after the would, but they weren't calm full unless you were doing something to hurts. And saw. Sandro and fear had made friends with the one night when they shared their meal. The Campfire. Soul on this Walnut Cajun when SA- fear and Sandro took the normal big path into the woods and sold the path that made themselves. Last week that led half into the trees. I'm took them all the way today secret. Camp Soy. They were hoping they'd be joined Bali the BUELL's. Shoring off soon after that death, fair Campfire, and take some water into their cattle to brew up some. Smash. Berry. t they heard a scurrying in the bushes. Chopper of Excel Tate Conversation before Berry and stokes two of their favorite buell's. pair. They. All hard. Lovely evening. Sat around the fire swapping stories on telling jokes before the conversation got on to wall stuff foss based. Up. or a human. While of course both Berry stokes insane state was the Buell's they could fly. They could skip all over Brian Chase and Dr through hold in the undergrowth. But that, and seth fear and Sandro. State was humans because what if there were no trees or holes to Dr through just a truck or a beach humans with far bigger way? Powerful legs? No effort one lives enough. Ball raced. The thorny are given when all so long that go dark. and to humans onto bills decided the only way to set late was the. Race. The very next born and when it got loit. With. Their fire flickered. Sandro. Fear, zipped up their tent. And they all fell simply. The next morning Berry and stokes were way tin outside the tent for lottery. A boat. Hicks cited the Sun draw on surf fear didn't even have time for breakfast as they discussed the root of the race, Wong Lop off the would. Well. Both Sancho answer, fear you that Berry stokes woken them up early to try and trick them and make sure they were tired. But that wasn't going to work. They were focused on ready to race. Sandro. Fierce start a running. They were sure that they were in front. But then they hear stokes and Berry Zip, pin through the leaves in the trees up ahead. Vein stokes and Baer, we thought they were in from but would say Sandro and your head of them on the poff off down below. That to Buell's dissociate, the path must be quicker than the trees. Zip, Dione to Sandra and fears, and Kohl's to race a long soy them when all eight of their feet. That's two for. Sandro to facility year ten feet for Berry to eight for Stokes. SO THAT'S A. Big Guy. To, feel heavy. The to-, buell's troy has VIP. All puts book they couldn't and the to humans troy lift their legs. They couldn't. Think. Sun. Sets, dokes. Halts thinks gun D- sets fear. Fund. US sailing king said Berry humane sink signed said Sandro. Oh. Said stokes. Signed. Aches staying. Some molly palm was overwhelming. Everyone was no stoke fast. And saying King. ME. Said Barry. Sandro and severe were only about a meter away from the to Buell's. But when severe reached as far as she could, she could just. Touch Barry. STOKES, was out of reach. She got her hand under Barry's feet on scooped, and then he was closed free for lottery, hang up into the sky. How Sad stokes? New Watts. dokes. New. Sandro. Unsa Fair Dayton. No wait was the stinks. Sand would swallow you up in a matter of minutes and that would be the end of you. So even those folks was low eat he was thinking the same as the to humans. Prom ankle. -TUNI-. Dali. Babri. flew up to the top of trees I, looked around. Lately. So early, the all the other abuse were still sleeping, but they're out to the east end of metal of the woods was crystal maced reservoir, he hot an. Dare onto Rice Dione to wards it. As the morning maced covered, arrested her the famous crystals big gun to appear. Crystals that were famous because bright, can one off would grant you any wish you wanted? But to break one, often, no reason was one of the most serious crimes in the whole world. This was serious stokes on the to humans or going perish barry knocked off, a crystal has emerged from the water her. On. whores Mawlana poll, apple? Laura borer was just making her first cup of tea when she got. On, as easy. Feeling in her. Tommy. Somethin- fell very wrong. She quickly looked out of the window, her airport, but everything seemed normal. But then the feeling in her Tommy got worse. Something somewhere was very wrong and with. No in why she put down her cup of tea and run out. So you to her helicopter with n seconds, she had left the grind and was hovering holly over the airport. Her instinct told her head north, and so she dipped the nose of the helicopter and go north she date. bought. Was She looking for? I, she got closer to sprayers. Rivers would that feeling in? Got Worse and worse, and she looked down at woman patch of trees in particular. Failing that vase was the place to be, she begged gone to lower her helicopter towards the tops of the Braun Chase's. Battery was far too small to spot, of course, but he waived for Ron. To helicopter, and then Dr, back down to the path where STOKES SANDRO and severe now up their armpits and stinks sound. But surrounded. Now, by dozens of panicking buell's, they could feel the wind from Laura's has a copter buffeting through the trays, shaking all the branches are random. Why fear? An all you. Dear. Do is cold Harv. Hey She said Sandro shook his head. They don't want hear about half hedge now he protested. Cold Khaw. Hey. Continued to fear because. Hey Ch- is not that might not be strong by itself, but if you combine them. Make. Some rope. That's all bright couple. Come by. The feels got the. Dare of media locally and soem linked on fear on some to Sandro and some to stokes. They formed a line right up to the tree tops and then I to the helicopter. Two of the more senior bugles. CRIP and web. Up to Laura's windscreen. Top Day. Laura was shocked out of her skin seeing buell. So close up. But Sore. They were pointing upwards Jiang Li. She pulled back on the controls and the helicopter rose the line of Buell's held strong under the strain and down below. So fear Santro and stokes were soaked up and out office stinks signed. Off An hour. Later off the Laura, borer had found a safe place to land. Shave Sandro fear Barry Stokes I'd all the other. while. Sitting around the campfire drinking some mash. Berry Tae. We've not proven who is the fastest sites, dokes, bills or humans. Self here rolled her is. Nearly died trying to prove that. She said. Exactly. Said Laura Borer. If, you want more advice. Doesn't matter WHO's Deaf Boston. or WHO's this trump guest? What matters is who has the brains? And the heart to help each other. Wave. Everyone looked. Barry who was? With is Tony Acorn Cup of tea. Some Molly, league preventatively. No Illinois. Remember. You convenient along with many Douglas. SPEND DOUGLAS DOT COM. Let. Go.

STOKES SANDRO Barry Stokes Berry Zip Laura borer BUELL Buell Sancho Douglas molly palm Bali Brian Chase Deir Own crystal maced reservoir SP rivers Rice Dione US Braun Chase Berry. Ball Tommy
Guest: Leo Howard - Managing Your Expectations

Don't Blame Me!

1:17:25 hr | 2 years ago

Guest: Leo Howard - Managing Your Expectations

"Indulgent delicious dark chocolate truffles from cocoa. Tovia at only forty calories at less fat and sugar for them. The other guys it's the perfect treat to enjoy. After a long day. Visit WWW dot cocoa Topi dot com and enter promo code blame at checkout to get fifty percent off your first order. Make sure you type the code in all caps. That's C O C O T O P. I A dot com and enter promo code blame at checkout in job without the guilt. Own iconic luxury items that unreal values, but the real real the leading reseller of authenticated luxury from top designers up to ninety percent off retail. Every item is authenticated by the rails team of experts and new rivals. Come in daily new customers, receive an automatic twenty five dollars off at checkout shop in store online or download the app and get twenty percent off select items with the promo code real the real real dot com. Promo code real. Okay, guys. We'll come back to the epicenter W me, we have teen heartthrob. Leo Howard here damn straight. I'm so happy. You're here we hung out in front of doing. This is always an it's an excuse to see you so excited, and we're recording late in the day to thank you for that. We accommodate your schedule. Appreciate because I know much on us. A Saturday morning. But we love having you do. And so do the fans like your sorry. Todd top marine. Thank you. Yeah. They have been told actually one of the most offensive offensive things. I read about the first podcasts they were like Leo should stick to being on camera because he does not have a good voice odd cast line. I was like. And I was like how can I can. I change my voice. And I was like fuck that. I'm not changing my voice, should if you ever want to feel better about your podcast voice. You should read the comments of when monsters on the podcast of the first. Fucking shit. People couldn't even get through the episode because. His fucking breathing. Degree. It just sounds like a blustery night in the higher episode. Like, there's always a fucking win like. And then when he came back I forgot about but anything he came back. He was like I'm not going to breathe it in my click that there's conscious of. And no one said anything about it. This. Yeah. Absolutely. There is something to people that just have a pleasant voice to listen to Mattie was listening to this girl on YouTube has an Irish accent. She does make up details. And every time she listens to this person. She falls asleep. It's and she looked real thing a certain people's voices to sleep. Yes. That's as. Same thing in Cardi B's AM's a s shutout. We does she really does. She do it. Thanks you too. I just saw video on it as his this is really. I'd be into that kind of SR the other just makes me feel like that. I don't know like gross and not good. It's uncomfortable for me. Yeah. Yeah. It's like Sandro, right? Yes. Some people get the tingles and some people don't it's it's like, stirring, Kraft macaroni and cheese. And I don't need any more. Everybody knows about. Do it's. Amanda, gone headphones. And now, she's. Well, guys advice podcast of your new here. Leo's not even new here. This is your second time third. The first time I came on. So have you guys want call in for an upcoming episode? You can leave us a voicemail at three one zero six nine four zero nine seven six and for international listeners. You can send us an audio file and Meghan podcast at g mail DAT. Cam. Okay. Should we go? Let's go. Let's go. Hey, megan. I am twenty three years old. And I am married for three years now. So I got married at twenty. My husband, and I have been together for nine years married three on and off. And I recently within the past little month have been in a situation where? He has said that me working out and not being fit. It has put a toll on our marriage. And there's other things that were said that weren't very nice. But that's the gist of it. And he's not willing to let. The fast, I'm not into fitness or anything go. Now, we tried you fitness together, and I got into it. And I enjoyed going with him because we had something to do together. And he pretty much was like showing me for a week. And then after that week was over he was like shooing away and pretty much saying, oh, well, I think he would be better if you did this or some. The same thing around those lines. But. And it really discouraged me. So now to the point where I don't really wanna work out with myself, and I don't really only work out. But I enjoyed working out with him and having something to do with him. So I just need it by s-. And I need to know if. Because ultimately this is like coming down to. Marriage ending. And it sounds stupid. But I only have three minutes, and I can't explain everything that has gone on. But there has traumas attached from him company about my weight when we were together before we got married, and it plays a lot into why I feel about this now, but I just need by s-, and I need opinion because. It sounds stupid for my marriage to be ending over some stupid thing that could happen in the future of meat gaining weight. If that makes sense, I don't even know if I make making sense, but. Thank you. She sounds very sweet she does sound really really like her. I don't like him. I really like her. I don't I don't want to say I don't like him because I don't know him. But know, I don't like some of the things that. Were said that he is doing. Yeah. I don't think that it's fair that it's his decision over her decision to wanna work out because that's a very personal thing. And that's a decision that you have to make yourself. If it's not something that you wanna do that's your spouse's responsibility to support that is my opinion. And I think if he had it to me this sounds a lot more about weight in a dozen sound about like health. So there's something to be said about like Mott's doesn't really work out. Like he comes to Jim with occasionally who enter Jim with me today. And we had a conversation about he had said he was like, I really love how much you work out. Like, I love like that. It makes like really helps during society, and like I really like love that you have this thing that you really like really have discovered that you've enjoyed doing later in your adult life. I think it's great to have like a passion that you find later in life like you're prioritizing taking care of your health. And I was like, thank you. I like you. Like, that's so nice of you to say those things. But you know, you could totally like do that too. And I had said that about like I was like I don't think it's about like weight or anything in this. What I said to him. I was like I think like there is something like just you're saying something attractive that I take care of myself like this. I think it's attractive when people take care of their bodies. And even if it's just like walking and doing stuff like that. And we had a conversation about that aspect of it. But it was just about health. It wasn't one of us me being like, oh, I wish you worked out more with me 'cause I don't even really like working out with him. But it was more about the sense of like, you're you like this thing about me. Why if you're interested in me doing this like why do you not like do it? You're like Duke wanting to at yourself in that aspect, but he's your husband in this like. This. I think I would be offended immediately like from this conversation point blank. But you're saying that this is. He's made comments before and about your weight. And that's like. Fucked up then like that to me. I'm like, this isn't a one time thing he said this repeatedly. And it just sounds like someone who's not. I don't know. Like, I I don't want to be like, I'm not your doctor with like anyone's health. But I also think like in general, Doug, doctors are incredibly fat phobic. Like there's like the it's insane. And like the idea that people think like you need to be a certain way to be healthy. Like there are for like so many inclusive. Studies also about like wait being tied to health problems later on like there are some things that correllated. But like most of those studies are inconclusive. And I think like your boyfriend coming at this from like clearly a superficial like shaming your weight kind of way. Like, that's not how you talk to somebody that you love, you know, there's. There's a lot of things to this that obviously, we're not hearing like you said, you know, you have three minutes to to give an entire story or an entire relationship problem. But it it sounds like there is not there's two types. There's like you were saying there's the way to come about this. I, hey, I want you to lose weight for your health. You are unhealthy which is not what it sounds like it sounds like a very immature approach to a relationship problem it. It sounds very immature of your husband to say will you need to go workout in order for you to be good enough, which is really really dangerous thing to start telling people when you when you put someone in a position to manipulate how they feel about themselves whether he means to or not that's what that does and puts her in a position to now she doesn't feel good unless he gives her approval, and he's only gonna give in. It's just it's a very dangerous cycle that goes down down down. It's dangerous. Getting your your feeling about yourself from someone else. And it sounds like that's what that situation is doing which is really scary for future peace in her relationship. Yeah. But I I'm also I'm a massive proponent for working out not necessarily just for health physically. The reason I work out as a lot of it. But most of its mental me too. I it gives me something that even on days where I don't feel like I accomplished anything. I'm not further and it towards any of my goals. It puts my mind to sleep, and it totally makes my mind focused. It makes me feel proud of something. And I feel it can sense of accomplishment, and I'm much happier. I is a literal thing as soon as I leave the gym. I am so much happier. So I'm a big proponent for that. But at the same time, the sounds like a manipulative. Yeah. Discussion I also think like the manipulation of this has prevented you from. I don't know if you're gonna be able to in this relationship, workout and get those feelings from it because it is being pushed by him for a looks reason. Like, it's not about you wanting to go because. Does your interested in it? Your interest is tied at the fact that he's interested in it for you. So at that point exactly what you're saying like your worth. And how you feel about yourself is tied to what somebody else is telling you what they think of you. And I don't know if you would even even if you started like going to the gym, I don't know if you would feel that sense of like self accomplishment because you're doing it for him. And I think like the way you brought it up it didn't necessarily say that like he was going to divorce you if you didn't start working out it sounded like you were going to be kind of done. And I think if that's where your mind is at and you're already being like there's a history of all of this other stuff like if this is making you think about your marriage ending. I think you need to be really serious about how you feel because I think like if that's not a conversation that he has said like we like first of all if he said like if you don't get your if you don't like exercising. I wanted to force like you should divorce him like that's a fucked up thing to say. Yeah. And I think like, but if you're if you even if he. Brought it up and your mind is going there. I think you need to stick with your gut because I think you're realizing the fact that like he doesn't make you feel great about yourself. And like what the fuck is. Why would you wanna be with something like relationships aren't perfect at all? But the person you are with like there might be times where like they say or do something that makes you feel shitty. It's something maybe sometimes it's intentional most of the time. It's probably not intentional. But if you're with someone who has a habit of making you feel not enough, and it's not something that's like getting better and not something that they're working on in therapy or figuring out what the root cause of that is. That's I don't I don't think we should be with anyone that we want to change at all. And I think that's settling for him. When there's going to be like, plenty of other people that aren't going to love you look under the condition that like you start going to the gym. And he doesn't even one work. This makes sense because like he doesn't wanna work out with you. But he wants to go to the gym like well. There's a weird thing with that to where I I don't wanna work out with my girlfriend, but I want her to work out. Yes, he does work out. But I don't I don't I don't want to do. I don't wanna work out with anyone. I don't wanna I don't wanna I don't wanna talk to anyone. I wanna have anyone I know working out with me. I wanna fuck off. And I wanna do I wanna do my workout? Right. It's my time. It's me time. But at the same time, so I this conversation with Mattie the other day she wanted to start working out. She's like can you show me? I was like, absolutely. But here's the deal. It's going to be a weird thing. You're not like you're going to argue with me. And then it's like, I said, do whatever whatever you feel like you should do or want to do do it found this app, and she hikes? She goes on a hike every day with the dog. And she does this this workout app, and she doesn't every day and she's done great at it. And I was like this is this is fantastic. And you like me, and I like it because we all know how good we feel after. And you get the even when you have nothing nothing in the day and your partner, you can see that in her that you're like oh out such a good mood. My other thing about this is number one. What it sounds like is very manipulative. What he's doing? First of all, I don't like I don't like that. But number two encouraging someone to working in encouraging someone to work out is much better than a lot of the other issues. I've heard of. Encouraging them to do drugs with your encourage it like all the issues or of all the things to have an argument about if it were coming from. I want you to be healthy. That's great. It doesn't sound like that is now. And I think also like the idea is like there is no like rulebook of what like healthy is like there are people who are like if you go bike standard stereotypical, overweight who are significantly healthier have like fine cardiovascular health than people who exercise every day. Like, there is not there is no like like, you can't look at somebody and how they look in their weight and know if they're healthy or unhealthy like it completely depends person to person. And I think if the argument, and like I've had this conversation with moss before in the sense that I'm like, I think you would really enjoy working out. I was like, and it's not about like how you look at all. But like the endorphins for me as because he's getting Zayed, you know, somebody who has anxiety. I can't even tell you. How fucking great it is. It's like an hour of zanex. And then for the rest of the day, I'm like coasting on a high. And so like that aspect of it. I think is great. But I'm also just not here for anyone wanting you to do something. You don't like doing? And if you don't wanna do something, and it doesn't like make you happy or anything like that. Like, you can't like I've had friends tried to get me into working out until I wanted to do it. I didn't do it. Like, I didn't get into it. Because I didn't feel like I was like, I wasn't somebody else's intention. It was like doing it for me. But anyone who's like wanting you to do something that you don't want to do? And it can like you can be happy forcing someone to do something that they don't want to do. And you know that they're not enjoying it. And you're like, no, I am happy that you are doing this. Even though you are unhappy that's such a selfish manipulative thing because you're getting pleasure out of something that you're washing your loved one not enjoy. And I think if it was about the sense of like, if you if it was coming from the aspect of I think, it would really like endorphins like help and all of that stuff. But if you had that conversation once it's not his job to like pressure. You to do anything like that. And also, it's even if he's not I think he's coming at it from the place of because you keep saying it's coming at it from the place of weight. But like, even if he wasn't like they're like media has taught women to be like. Self conscious of their bodies that like read the fucking room, dude. Like, even if you have good intentions like read the room. Hi, meghan. I'm twenty four years old Marie sent college. Graduate head to move back home to save money and look for work. I'm actually in a two year relationship and the seeker nuture by set like I said we've been together for two years my boyfriend, I in we live apart or two states away, and she actually live with me. And my parents were probably three months this past summer on. So it's definitely been hard on. So the pressure's kind of on need to make a decision. You know, do I wanna move to where he's at? And if I can say with my parents would want to save money on my looking for a job he's in Chicago. And then I'm in Detroit. So it's definitely not acute. We like doing a lot. So it's a round like six six and a half hours for both of us to drive there. And back those definitely taken a toll on her relationship. The last. Seven months, and now all the pressures on me on my side because he just got a time job in Chicago area. So I need your help. Because everyone I asked her like, you're young and move. You know, whatever to you like we trust him we trust you, and your your very, you know, I'd like to say make good decisions in my life. But this is one where I'm really struggling with. Because if I moved there, I picked up my whole life. And I you know, I lived with his parents are a little bit. We got a house, and I don't know if I'm one hundred percent ready to make this commitment without a ring on my we're friends for year and a half before even datings we were kinda like in the same front group and we start off friends. And I think you know, yes, we could make it. But I don't want to go there. Something happened that I have to pick up my life and moved back to Detroit. I think that's one of my biggest fears like no one hundred stands my fears whatsoever. So my best friends like just do. Like, you know, you'll be fine. But in the back of my mind, I'm freaking out. And I don't know what to do. So she can help me. That would be amazing. Some advice would be perfect, and I love missing your podcast every single week. So what what what are your thoughts? But he's percolate a second. Okay. That's how I worked just personally over to percolate. While you percolate. How's it going brush start using that more? Here's what I will say I am in the same camp as I like, see your point of view. And I also see your friends point of view as somebody like we've said this before like regionally, people don't get married young in LA. And also where I grew up in general like none of my friends who are in their twenties or married. None of that. So there's that like more nontraditional part of me that is like move one hundred percent go like do that. You don't need a ring anything like that. But I understand your fear. But I think like. A ring a marriage and engagement or anything like that that doesn't that's really shouldn't change your relationship so much that you're afraid like security wise, like you should be secure in your relationship a piece of metal and a fucking gemstone and a contract like if someone's gonna fuck someone else over it's gonna happen. And I think like even if it's like peace of mind here. Okay. Let me just say this is really fucked up worse case scenario thing blitz say like you, wait till you get a ring you move. You're there for a year. He cheats on you. And you're like, oh my fucking God. But if you go, and you don't have this like built in you have like a bit like him. You get a house together you live together like your boyfriend like you have that built in. But you're not moving for your husband. So you even if it's in the back of your mind in even though I don't think you should be insecure about over relationship at all. I think there'll be a part of you that it's like I really need to make roots here that are my own to have my friend group. I need to have like all of the other things. Where you make a life for yourself there as well. And it's not just I'm moving to be a wife. I think like it's a great opportunity. I think I know people who've moved to new cities for relationships, and I've broken up, and like they've stayed in that city, and they have made it work, and they have really enjoyed it. I just think like there is you can never be sure and one hundred percent secure in anything at all. You never know what's going to happen. But I think waiting for a moment, you know, my point on this is the everything about this feels right that you're pondering this move and all these, but what feels wrong to me is the idea that that commitment wouldn't make it better for you to move. That's just not how I think I totally agree with you in that sense where the relationship is the relationship. That's just the cherry on top. We need to have the foundation aside from that ring or that commitment like we should have a commitment. I mean to me yet boyfriend and girlfriend. It shouldn't be that big of a difference. Between husband what light, you know? I know every relationships different. But that's the way I treat it right on the other hand aside from that there's a lot more opportunities in general in in Chicago than a big than a place like Detroit. So another thing is for you going to school having graduated is there more of an opportunity for you to get work or mushir self instead of thinking purely the future of the relationship. Let's think about you two in one where's your career going to be best suited? Where are you going to feel like you're gonna have the best course of action career wise? And also, you're moving away from your family, and it sounds like that would be the first thing. So that's something else to factor in. I mean, how old are your folks? These are all it's it's a huge decision. And I am a little bit old fashioned in the way that I I would struggle to move far away from my parents because I'm really close with my folks, and is great as a lot of places are mean, southern California's great have nothing. But but I I I don't want him to parents either. So. Yeah. No. And I think it makes sense. I think you need to like figure out just like you're saying, I think he didn't figure out is the only thing in Chicago him more. Are there other things that you want like is would you be leaving everything? Like, did you picture your life? Do you wanna be in Detroit is that where you wanna spend the rest is that where you want to raise kids is that where is that where you want to put roots? And is that where you're at in your life that you're ready to build roots? Yeah. Exactly. And I don't think like moving moving to a place for relationship. Like, yes. Long distance relationships are like incredibly hard, but you have to figure out what you want for your own life in a relationship, isn't your entire life. And like Muslims have said that before if it's like if I get a job somewhere that's like far away that like if I'm shooting nine months out of the year in Canada or something like that where he gets a job somewhere else. Like we've had that conversation of being like, okay. We would take it like a year at a time. But nobody's job takes priority over the other person's job in that aspect of being like, no one's. Not going to like get up and leave and one person's going to have like nothing to do. Because the other one's doing this like both of your career, even in even if you don't want necessarily to be working if you want to be a mom, which is also like a fucking fulltime job. Or even if you don't want to be a mom, and you want to be the decision is the thing. Exactly. And it needs to be what you wanna do. And it's it can't just be fully reliant on him, regardless. If there's a ring or not because even if there's a ring, and you're moving to a city that you don't wanna live in that. You don't have like that. You don't want to be in. It doesn't that brings not gonna make you happy. He has like right now her life is in a lot of transitions just finished college. She looking for a job. It's like figure out those other things if you might not if you find a job in another state, not even Illinois or in Detroit, where you are are you would you expect him to move for you? It's just like figure out your own things. I I was actually pretty much in this situation with me. I was out here and my girlfriend is from England. She was out there. We matched on a dating app, and I had no intention of really anything serious with anyone on the app. And we started talking we've talked for like three months, you were there the whole time all. Yeah. The gentleman we talked for three months, and it got to the point where it was like. Well, there's no I'm not comparing this in the same sense to your situation moving in all that. But in the same sense, there was no future in it. And you know, she came out visited I went out visit out there. She had an opportunity to come work out here. So I was very lucky, and she we were both very lucky that our relationship just seemed to work in the fact that she was able to get workout here. So it all made sense. It would not have happened if she was not able to get work out here. And so I think that's really important because one if she moved out here for just me, it would have failed already for sure. Yeah. But the fact that she moved out here to push her life in a direction that was definitely better for her. It just worked. Yeah. So that's a big thing. If you're going to go out to Chicago, and there's no oppor- she cag- if you're gonna guard skagal he's in deep dish Bateson in. You don't really have a a promising. Sort of set of goals that are going to be achievable in Chicago. It's just gonna put so much more pressure on your relationship as well. So way in all those things I mean, if you do go to Chicago, get jeered donnas pizza, but also maybe you lived together for three months with your parents. You also don't guys what is that. What is that? What's what's people? Do is. It is. They would they would beat the piss out of me even asked my fucking father. If I could move some girl in his own my God, I enjoy watching that cover. Yeah. Not not not throwing juggling. I'm just saying not happy, and it might make some point to forty five hundred dollar rent. Yeah. Yeah. The my shoes. Her right foot? Yeah. No one. I think. Yeah. You just living together with like your parents and like first period of time. It's also not the same as living together. Like, I think relationships long distance relationships. I've never done. I and I say this. I've never really done a long distance relationship. But like soaks. Yeah. But I think also there's a punishment. Oh, you have to. Florida order to serve him. Yeah. Just just live dangerously. It does make sense of your personality though. I don't know, you know, you get what easily so that when you have to talk to a girl for a couple of months, then you realize you feeling couple long distance. My mom, actually, set it. Right. And she goes when you don't cloud, your brain with all the physical sexual. Oh, yeah. You're totally right. You're able to actually build a relationship put them immediately. Then you're gonna like the work total. That's me too. And it's something that if I were ever single again in the future. It would be something that that that would totally changed the way I looked at things for sure or not. But do you know what I mean? Like, I I just think you you also you want to spend time together. Like, I know a lot of lot of my friends who did this is relationships when they finally like both run the same city if it was like after college something like that. It was kind of like, oh, our relationship isn't like what they thought it was like some people just work better long distance. I don't think you should make any commitments to like, I mean, even saying that we don't think like marriage in that sense. It's going to be like something that's like very comforting like in like, it's not gonna mean that much something that's like so different. But I don't want you to make any decisions like that until I don't know like until you is like actually live together and done on facts. Like, maybe you hate living with him if he's the worst person ever to live with and then like girl get mature. Yeah. I don't know. I think it's also fun to enjoy new aspects of it. But. That'd be hopefully, maybe a little bit. I was wondering if they listen to their like what the people say here, she she's just she's not even addressing what I just don't. They focus on like stuff. That's not as and then people like what you're halfway through to like opium talking. Vice though she'd gone to next season high my gun that shot on guest chef kind of an issue with the ex girlfriend of my boyfriend. So it's been an issue for a couple of months now, she's being locus talking us. So she started messaging him, and he blocks her on many, different social media. We even got in argument when he lied to me about talking to her because he knew really bothered me that she was constantly messaging him it wasn't normal conversation. It was about how she missed him her boyfriend for now listened making her as happy as my boyfriend use to. So it's kind of a tricky situation at a rate, you know, what to do. But so she so she keeps contacting him officer. He blocks her number. She got a private number. I know hushed it that actually she could approve number and. Analogies in the US. But here Nevada's lunch. You cannot block private number. So she keeps calling him constantly and telling him that she misses him on her boyfriend is intriguing will will boy from juice to add no a lot of things that girlfriend. This wanna hear about the X relationship of her boyfriend. So a mayor really uncomfortable. My boyfriend was trying to console me telling his ex girlfriend. He didn't wanna speak to her. Another was happy with me. But skirl fund, I mean extra friends. Okay. She didn't this wanna give up. So she saw calling him on the new number. So she wouldn't know his number anymore. But now he may she is calling his home number. So is mom and dad's a home number that is. I mean, that's really weird. At least I funded ready weird. I would never call. My expert the mom and dad to speak to him. So. I don't know what to do exactly. Because I know like the police cannot do anything about it because we cannot press charges because it's not actually stocking. 'cause she's not physically here. But she keeps like bothering Austin is really making me upset because Murphy, Dustin radio reacts the way I want him to react Annetta. No if that just me, but sometimes when I tell him like give me the phone. I will talk on just like basically like fuck off. But he's like no don't do that. Like, I want her to failings. I mean, he's a good guy. But for me just like Cates. Now, Jew should just say like get a fuck of my lie out of my life and leave me alone. And that's clear message because the time she has said it is like, oh, I'm sorry. I don't wanna speak to you again. Please leave me alone. But I don't know if he's being too nice, and she doesn't really get the hints. So please help me out already know what to find. I love you both cast but away sorry for my ex. Death. Okay. Bye. Well, I want to applaud your strength. Because would I have curb stomps this bitch? Oh fuck. Yes. I would have showed up at for door. I would have lost my goddamn minds. Yeah. Feel feel as if that's appropriate as. Totally you might thing about this is it's to me sounds like you have a boyfriend. That's too. Nice. Sounds like he's trying to make everybody happy which in a situation. Like this. Somebody is gonna walk away upset in a repeat exactly what I said. Which is you sometimes got a hike you nuts up and spit somebody's face. Yeah. That's exactly what sounds like needs to happen. I mean, you can't be nice to certain people need to understand that there are boundaries. And you can't cross him in their consequences. If you if you cross them like slashing tires, you know, bitch slapping, open the door. I'm not saying that. But, but I've I've saying that I haven't seen that people, you know, molotov cocktail. Middle school kid almost blew up or school. It's under those. Here's what you said. So you said something when the call was happening was that. He's definitely not shutting her now. Totally from what she's saying he he'll shut her down. But then he'll be nice tour. 'cause I don't know. I it doesn't sound like there's malicious intent from it doesn't sound like he's he's interested in her again to me, it doesn't sound like that. It just sounds like he's a nice guy. And he's trying to be nice, which I I have suffered from very over the last couple of years realized that it is fantastic -ly OK to have someone not like you have actually come to enjoy it something sometimes it feels validated. Also in the sense that like these to you as the girl at speak Adams, as if I'm speaking to him, these two women in your life served not the exact same purpose, but they are the same relationship. So you cannot have both being happy because you can only. Have one girlfriend unless you try and do polygamy which doesn't sound like you're trying to do. So the idea that you would have an ex girlfriend who clearly wants to get back with you happy with you the only way to make her happy is to get back together with her, but you already have a girlfriend that you're happy with like there is a line that like drawing of like being nice to Xs friendly in all of that that it is just it's not fair for your new partner to be put in a girl you calling like your. It's clearly not fair in his idea. It is nice guy syndrome where it's like, I can't have someone not be happy with me. And is was before. It's like, I'm like, okay. Well, if you want to be like, the nice guy, just no like in my friends. Well, was like friends female friends was like no that like I will be mad like someone's like I went to like, I don't want to piss anybody. If you don't figure this out, I will be the one who's pissed off. So like, the first the person that you should try and prevent hurting is the person you're in a relationship with you have broken up with this girl. You guys are not together anymore. Like, that's what. He should be doing. But I think on your end you need to have a conversation with your boyfriend because I think that's what he's suffering from is like he needs everybody to like him when in reality if you break up with somebody they're not going to like you. Or if you're someone is not happy in their relationship. Like the only way that he is going to achieve her being happy is at the expense of you. So he's not going to get what he wants which is his nobody off like he's going to piss off somebody. So does he want that to be Hugh over her? I said before I I had to learn this, and it was misconstrued with girls that I've been within the past that I was trying to keep my options open. You're nice. You know, what I really did not exactly I didn't want people to have a sour taste in their mouths about something that happened or just I didn't want people to not like me, and I had to get okay? With people not liking me. And it was it was a big step for me. It's happened. The last couple of years, and it was it was really nice moment where it was literally a switch, and I went. Wow. It's okay. If someone doesn't like you. It's totally fine. Nothing's going to change. Also, when you realize that certain aspects, there are only certain things that people that conditionally want something from you. And if you're like, I can't give that to you. It's like, well, then I don't like you. Then it's like, well, I can't muddle that it's like, you know, what then you don't actually really you're carrying so much more about other people in their feelings in their carrying about you because it's like unless you can do this. Then I'm pissed but it's like that's not what anyone else is asking from the situation. I think what you should do. I think you should have a conversation sit down conversation with you your boyfriend and his parents. I think you need to have this as it because I think like. Wait. You your boyfriend in his pants and hauling awesome. Oh, God, you need to all get on the same page because I think like there is whether boyfriend is downplaying it to his parents in. It's like, oh or they're not thinking, it's weird. Or maybe they're thinking is incredibly weird. But he's downplaying it. So then they're not wanting to pressure and be like, oh, you re really Russia change, our number when they see that you are also incredibly upset about this as you should be you guys need to have a plan of action and being like, okay. So we're going to change the home phone number. Yes. This sucks, all blah, blah, blah, all of these different things do that. And then you need he needs to not engage in responded, all like at all. And that's what the issue is. It's like even response in even even aggressively rude response meeting like I'm going to answer that right? You just like an answer to people like that. They're not even like even seeing these to the person doesn't matter. They they just see I got notification they responded they care complete Blinder is that they don't. It does not matter. What the fuck you say to people like that? That's all it all means the same thing. I love you. It's exact stockade. You don't talk to exactly's engaging care enough to write back. Yeah. And that's like a like a sliver of hope that she's holding on to it forever. There's does she. She's nothing does she does. And maybe he knows that. And he's trying. But that's just in neighboring her. I was gonna say. And I think you guys need to all be on the same page because it also helps you guys will all hold each other accountable for it. And then you also sit down and talk about what the next plan of action is if she keeps calling again, fuck it, go to your local police precinct can be like we can't get a restraining order because she's not talking to us that let us know what we legally our legal rights are and what we should or even what we should do in this situation. Like how shows up store you take clogs up smack. Hey, my I also have clogged very large are they cope? Wooded? What I mean? Doctor sholls insults backlog. It's essentially just cracks like that's an end of being. I think we appropriately answered that one and think we all agreed on exactly what the course of action me. Yeah. And I'm not saying threaten her and her house at all. Dodo? Nope. By by no means encouraging violence at all because number one that would not also solve this show. Actually, make it worse on you. Shut it down. Yeah. Got down. And also your boyfriend needs to learn this lesson, and I think like if he's got his parents there who are like adults also being like, this is not normal. This is not okay. He needs to figure that out because it's also. Yeah, it's not fair to you in a relationship. Plot twist. They like her in the out in don't fucking idol doubtless. My other thought this they're like her better than they like the time, I need Jamie, just called it's great. You should talk. Also, hey, worse worst case scenario, send all this shit to avoid their duchess. If you had a Jewish mother. I'd be like, yeah. You gotta watch out for that. She not Jewish. So you're fine. No. But I'm saying because I have a Jewish mother. That's I can say that what she's boyfriend the girl who his experts. I got you. It's so she says. Yeah. She might not even exist like fight club. It's just. To get Johnson. He's like way too far. He's a shit. I don't know how to this back saw. They've just outside told her to fuck. Oh. Can you imagine? I just didn't them. Sorry. I just thought it was going to be funny. That's I would be so mad when you keep the bit going on for two long. Okay. Guys. We're going to break, and we will be back. Long day at work tough day at school still could be office. Or did you just lay in bed all day, and you're really tired, and you don't want to cook your own food that allows one was really personally just for me. 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For five dollars off your first order from Budaj. Hi, guys. This is Melissa. This is me being very Chipper. Because I love you. I want I really really appreciate everyone that calls in with their questions to get vice. But we've had a few constructive criticisms about the clarity of the call. Thank you, girl. You know, who you are? So any got a lot of them's up. So I figured we should address. So if you guys when you make your calls, I know a lot of people do it in cars, and we can hear your your turn signal going. But I think the best way to have the clearest voicemail is if you leave it if you're going to be in your car be parked. So that we don't getting the engine noise. And I'm sure and it's safer, and I'm sure a lot of you are doing it for privacy. But if you can do it in your home over a wifi connection. That will give us the best quality when you call in. I was going to say also guys. This is something I learned from eighty are which is like when you go over and dub movies when you don't enunciate your words like me and a great place to do it again. If you're concerned about privacy. Go in your closet and shut yourself in your closet. It's great. We're going to be able to hear you super. Well. And if you don't really want to hear you do it like that. Thank you guys that to the episode. Okay. Is there a back from our break? And we're going to go into the rest of the. That was how Mott's brains. I don't know grandpa came Meghan. And the don't blame me podcast. I am twenty four years old. I'm calling about a predicament with my father long story semi short. My dad met this lady online from Canada peoper quick married her super duper quick. Like never knew the dating her. Then all of a sudden, she married, and yeah, they live in Kansas and this lady. Started ruining my dad's life she stole his identity. She did drugs cheated on him to follow terrible person. I ended up not talking to my dad for about two years because of it. She died a couple years back a year and a half and. And I ended up talking to my dad again, and we're on good terms now. And I don't for Christmas. I bought him a mount yours. She come and visit you in California. And he hasn't a piece a day or time because I don't know. And I'm very nervous about seeing my father again, you guys have any tips on how to deal with that. Yeah. I don't really know what to do because my step mom was a megabit anyone. That's steals their spouses identity, obviously trash any advice anything how thanks bye. Well, I don't everyone who says people's identity is trash. Kidding? You're sign really bad. 'cause like, I just I felt fire iphone some people have message and told us what their signs what we need. I like her a lot. I like her I like her her schedule sarcastic humor regarding a very tragic. I love it. Kids calls. We've had most information the most dramatic note guys. Yeah. This is how you do a closure die. She has a sense of humor. Just this happened. And then he ran off at this my favorite, then this. Wow. Okay. We'll props. You sounds like you've been through a hell of a lot. And that's not an easy situation. My god. I mean, how can you possibly comment on something? That's so obscure in difficult to deal with. But. Yeah. Yeah. Of course, you're nervous to see your father. I would be too. I would I would be feeling all of those feelings. I would feel excited. I'd feel scared and I'd feel probably a little bit angry. And I'm sure that there is some resentment there still for the decision that he's that he's made. But my advice with parents is is it echoes my own experience because I care very deeply about my parents. And I've been very lucky with my parents. And I I also understand that other people have not sometimes, but you do only have one set of parents at so my goal with that is to always encourage people to hey, do your best to make it as good as you can make. It is good as they will allow you to. And try not to hold anything past that. Because there there probably will be a day where you go. You know, what I wish I would have said that instead of saying, hey, you know, what? Now that they're gone. I wish I would've said that how about you say. Yep. I said it and it didn't work out. I would rather that be the outcome of. I said what I wanted to say they didn't echo those feelings back. It is what it is. And I guarantee you'll feel a lot better with that situation rather than I should have said that. Yeah, I I'm I'm very much agreement with that. I think like there are I mean, we talked to us, and it's just very typical of the idea like when you get older, you realize that your parents are human and like they make mistakes, and they do stupid shit, and as you become an adult, and you really like you foster your life, and you have you not necessarily you'll get like your pick of jobs, but like you have a career path that you've chosen like you have friends that you've chosen like you have all of these things that you've elected to have in your life that you've sought out that like you have basically handpicked, and your parents are the only thing that you haven't handpicked, and so as you get older there might be like the same kind of. When you've childhood friends, and then you get older, and we don't have that much in common like. Handpick my little pain. So there are certain things for your parents that like there are things that you might not align beliefs on stop laughing saying, but. But do you. She loves to. But you can't pick everything. And so there are some times. It's like the same thing with like, your parents are the same belief system as you. I don't think that it's your responsibility and your job to cater to everybody else's comfort level when it comes to just life. I mean in the let's not sexually assault people. Like, let's talk about that comfort. But I just mean like in everybody else. I don't think you should need to dull down your personality or your beliefs or anything else to appease people who aren't doing the same for you. And that being said, I think yes, you're going to be incredibly nervous to see him. I think you need the sounds fucked up. Thank you, just keep your expectations low. That's been the greatest thing that I've done in major adult life and everything you have to manage manage expectations and kind of fluff your encounters with him with things that are going to make you feel better and safe and secure. If you have your relationship or you have a friend that you're like, hey, let's all like, maybe it takes the pressure off of you. And being like, hey, let's all. Go to lunch. Let's do this aspect of it. I think having him come into town to like, see you. It does put a lot of pressure on that. And we might also be feeling that pressure. But I think like you're more than welcome to. And you have my permission to lay into him for what he like. You feel good about a situation. But like you think, but I think he understands the gravity of what what what's happened in where he used to be a little bit of an idiot to get in that like to her personality. I feel like she has told I feel I also she said she was in California. If you need some company, whenever you guys are having dinner, you just want some people that know, just sit and listen. Oh love to just love. You shouldn't have. Don't let me. Get your identity stolen. No. But I mean, I think like you just it sucks to say like you need to manage expectations. Because I think you want people to like live up to a specially like as a kid like if he was a real estate dad when you're a kid you want him to live up to that. When they make mistakes. I don't I think you need to remember those mistakes in those things and be like this could happen again. And I think for me when it comes to family and everything like that for me, personally, not to get too deep into exit can in my book. But the things that were the hardest for me where things when I I didn't listen to max, I didn't manage my expectations. And I had what I wanted to be true versus what was actually happening in. What really was true in took like my friends. It took my relationship of people being like, let's look at like the series of your life and look at these habits and things like that. Like this idea of what you really want that hasn't happened. And I don't think that one day it's gonna wake up and heaven. And if that's what you if you can't deal with that. And that's the only thing that you want then like walk away from the situation, but at certain point like manager expectations and see this is like this is the history is probably gonna happen. This is probably what the relationship's gonna be. And then just know that that's what's going to be into it. 'cause you're not going to be disappointed by that. That's going to be what you expect out of it. I think he just he's just feeling nervous. Because he knows he got duped now hand he knows that in like, you said her personality was that she probably told him that he was being idiot. And so you kind of feel stupid, and he's just trying to figure out how to go to the next step. But yeah, now, and also maybe maybe if you really I keep picking all these different stances if you have what you have with him like where your relationship stands and that. But like, maybe if you're annoyed that he hasn't made the effort to actually plan the trip just tell him be like, hey, you know, I think it was really fucking dumb in urinate yet. But you're still my dad, and like I'm not gonna go into too hard for this like, let's just fucking come. Visit like that. I come to you if you don't own if you can't come here come to you don't get off. Yeah. They off Craig's this show say hi, I just want to sit off that. I am twenty six years old. And I when I boy friend four five years, we're going on six this year, hopefully, all things, and well, I am calling because I have a question about three phone, and my talked about anytime on spice up our sex lays together, and you know, we both were kind of curious about three some ever had one. I've never had one. Like, even when I watch porn I like watching foams like, I just don't know. I just have this like interest in it. But I'm just not one hundred percent committed to it only because I am scared of change relationship. And I don't I'm sure that it's been the make weird. And I think what if I don't like it, and I I'm a jealous person. So I just think I. I wouldn't even I think I would be really jealous. But then at the same time I to try it. I just wouldn't know you know, how to go about it. And you know joke around I own. Yeah. Like, we'll have one next year. Did it like for New Year's Eve goals? But you just never go through with it. Because I just I'm not one hundred percent Syria, and one thing that I would add is my boyfriend has a no is I felt the growth before. And I've never told them that. And I not I find attractive, but I'm not like, I don't know. I don't sit in for fear by because I would never date a girl I was hooked up with one, and that's probably it. But at only one Berle, so I just don't know how I feel about doing it with my boyfriend and this minimum girl running though, what you guys think think you I. She should have a conversation with the girl that called a couple of weeks ago who sent me a DM, and he would never profile stalker and pick out who she added threes. When you guys you really explicit DM's. And you're like this was me. This is the story, and then you don't have private profile. I get to Stockholm. No, I'm not I'm not even being just like I really like I'm here for that kind of pride and joy -solutely. Yeah. Wow. I think there's a lot of layers to this. You're a really jealous person address. I layer. Okay. Go ahead. Why do you feel the need to spice it up? Like, you're saying I want to take it sort of to the next level. But then at the same time, you're like, I'm jealous. I don't want it to change things. So what what what's lacking is? I would figure out what's lacking. What's where is this desire coming from? Because she this. There's a good way to make the I think resumes can be healthy if both people are secure enough. But it doesn't actually sound like that too many think she's curious because she watches threesome porn and she's into that. And she's not with a girl, and she could be into that. Actually, I get it ain't going to say, no. And I think it's Riyaz city. And I think that I think it turns you on its curiosity. And I think like I think the issue with that there is that makes total sense while you're like the what if when it happens, I'm not into it. I that makes complete probably would happen most likely, I think it's the right person. That's the other thing is like there's this weird thing. I can't speak from experience because I've never been in this specific situation of like, hey, I wanna spice relationship. How do we bring someone else into this? But from what I? Here. And I know a lot of people that have it is there is something to the right person. Like, it's not just going to be some random person. Do you have to find the person that you are not threatened by you're both attracted to and so. I've talked to a lot of my friends who have been in this situation. And there were mothers, rather, like, this is the moment or is the person or this is it wasn't too difficult to make happen. Yeah. Maybe you haven't met the girl that you want to bring in relationship for that. But I think what you need to do is. I think you need to like take no-fence your boyfriend, take his desires him wanting through this out of the picture and way, side-by-side your sexual attraction, and like how much of a turn on this is for you, and how sexually satisfying. This could be for you. And how much your jealousy is? Because if your jealousy outweighs that if you think about the then again, that's what I think it is. I think you have to manage manage expectations because like in theory, the maybe maybe when you think about it in Syria. I think it's really hot like watching a guy go down on watching point like watching a guy go Donald girl, watching every two girls, go down each other all of that. But like if you picture that is your boy. Friend. And that is you and another girl are you into that? Are you into the idea of your boyfriend beat are you, okay? With your boyfriend being with this girl as you're there, or is it the idea of oh, I would be down to be with a girl Ambi with my boyfriend, but not them be with each other. Because you can't really. Get your in a situation where everybody's naked gun. You're like everyone's review, which my Leila's like, yeah. But like, I would never have a threesome Ford. The the reason that the other girl would not survive like she would I would kill her. You know? And so I think you need to weigh that like is your jealousy. Are you are you really jealous in is your jealousy in your relationship, or that you you refer to yourself a jealous person is that when you feel like like threatened by someone like you're going to be replaced, isn't romantic thing is like. Is or is it the idea that you think that you should be jealous in this situation? You might not be like are you jealous, and you don't have control, but this you'd have control. So I think you need figure that I'm not going to roll with them. You know? Leos being right? Jealousy is anybody jealous. Nope. Nope. Think about what you do. Yep. Good pass KAI on my God. I wouldn't I wouldn't be able to do it. But I think the I think I do I've never had a threesome. I would assume it might change your relationship from people. I know who have had threesomes it. I don't know anyone who had a good freedom once and that never had another one. Like if it was a weird that no one ended up enjoying it. They only did it once. But if it was an enjoyable thing. It was something that happened more regularly. And I don't know if that makes you jealous like the idea that it wouldn't just be like a one time thing. But I think you need to like I mean, I'm all for like pleasure in your partner. But I think like in this instance, like you need to take him out of the picture and figure out what you really want without like his opinions weighing on it, maybe spice it up by Greg. Another guy that was on his immediately. I was going to do. Yeah. He might not like that. Well, I do that. I would do. Yeah. I would I would that'd be fun to muscles loved tensions. Picture. Never picture that kind of tension that that would be weird for me being being in a room like three some meat and other guy and a girl there'd be like this. This macho energy like that. That's that is that guy fighting over you and just laying. Swinging Dicks fighting. Would you dig digs? He hit. He. I'm wearing. Oh, my. Throw. Hate loving. Have you ever seen a Hindu? Wedding. Or is it an Indian wedding jewel. Gold with the. Oh, back on begged hip, babe. I have an idea. But yeah, I think you gotta I think you got to figure out what you really want the situation. Also, I will say to. You can be a into something, porn wise and be really tracks to it and not necessarily be attracted to it. As it's real life. Exactly. Also the angles you're watching stuff happen. And you're seeing everything you're not doing it yourself early seeing everything the big picture. So I would think about it in that sense to and I would also say that if you're worried about like, you mentioned that you've been with a girl before first of all you don't have to define your sexuality at any point. I don't like at spectrum you might be into six. But not really. Yeah. And I don't think there's anything wrong. Leeann nothing wrong with any that you don't have to define or anything like that don't feel like you need to. But I would also say you also, I don't think that that is an important detail that he needs to know. And he's also like if you're thinking like, oh my God. But what if he watches you with a girl, and he's like she's done this before he would be on cloud nine. He's thinking about like, well, she's good at this. I feel like she's done this before. How dare you have done this before? Yeah. What you're doing is up to the girl. He'd be like in the happiest most excited way in the entire make like he makes a Cup of tea. Will you tell me the story? Finishing the bedtime story. Hoping your eyes open. Clothing guys. Would literally be against. Hundred percent lower this. Be worried about it on your end. No, I want either. I mean, I don't wanna sub your boyfriend into academy. But I think I think he'd be okay. All ninety nine percent of mosses. Like, would you rather? It would be like ends up with me being with a girl my babe. No, do you want me to break up with you with the girl? Instead, he's being much friends. Think about that often. Why is it so attractive as for me a hetero guide watch two girls grew at it? Why? Because I mean, if you break it down to I mean, it doesn't seem like it would be something that is that contrast girls are more girls, dude. I mean, it is it is it the primal thing of like more women more kind of you want to watch. If you're if you're a defining yourself. It's an incredibly heterosexual, man. Like the guy in the picture. Like, you're watching porn. You're not like. Wow. That guy like what goes biceps like those are greatly. You're paying attention to the girl. No. But I'm saying I'm saying if the argument is as a heterosexual man, who's not attracted to men or is not aroused by men in general like important, you're paying attention to the women. So then more women. Is more women. You know, I'm more with us. Always. I like girls can get off girls who defined themselves as being heterosexual could also get off on girls because you're watching girls get off which is a hot thing because you are also a girl. I think that's typically. Yeah. I mean that does for me the other way round doesn't translate. What you guys going at watching guys get off this not be like? Yeah. Because I could be that guy. That's not. It's not it doesn't. Yeah. Exactly. You're thinking about like the girl new, according to this article from the Atlantic men are straight men are into lesbian porn because there are aroused by visual cues at emphasize youth, downplay drama and emotional complexity. Listen porn there for works for straight men by doubling up those visual stimuli. What? Okay again. All right. But to the extent that lesbian eroticas popular it can be explained. By the fact, that men are more are most aroused by visual cues that emphasize youth and downplay drama any motion complexity lesbian porn there for works for straight men by doubling up those visuals stimuli. Scary relationship. British J can't buy just show me more booze. Likes me, she wants relationship. How do I tell you what still back on less words more? That's so not me. That's that's not. No, that's funny. That's wild. That is brought that article in the show notes. How men are simple creatures? It it blows me away every day. I just gone Chicago. I have so simple. It's so I feel like you said that in the love podcasts. That is amazing. Give me any fucking attention go. Yeah. Golden retrievers, golden absolutely a labrador, golden retriever. Thank you, Mr. peanut butter on attracting looks a lot by fucking feel good. Wow. I'm happy. Now. This is great. So uncomplicate uncompleted. So funny. I love and women are like ou. Don't look at me. But I would be. The same way. So I went to I went to a gay bar for the first time. I love my life a couple of weeks ago. It was called flaming saddles West Hollywood. I feel good meeting. I under. Exactly. Understood you're gonna jump on me for saying that, but I- yourself, well, but but I I totally hand foot ties with the idea of a woman walking into a bar with a bunch of guys in everyone goes, it looks at her, and I was like this is fucking uncomfortable. I don't like this at all. Good. You can recognize that. Because there are so many like straight dudes who they're like though. I don't wanna guys looking at me. But then in return don't think that that's anything like women because it's like, but no, but women are into my dick. But like they're into me. But like, no you're talking about this with my mom awhile back. She's like do you understand what it's like to when you smile at someone guys take that as you wanna fuck me. It's like, I handle fester. Yeah. Because I was trying to ask her why why shoe standoffish to a lot of really standoffish person, very strong woman. Now, I love, but she's just got a wall up. Right. And I was trying to figure out why you don't understand. You don't understand it? Wow. The make sense. I mean, I get it anytime. I even make eye contact got he's like, oh, good. It's an invitation. It's an IOU. It's like, oh, I have looked at. Thing. Like if I try to not look good. If I was flirting I would not look at you. And then like, maybe I'd say one thing and totally opposite justly. I it's also an experiment. I tried to do that. Sometimes I'm like if I just walk away right now mid conversation. What is that gonna do to you? And I just walked away. Yeah. Hopefully, not go nothing is now supper don't blame them. And this is where people listeners call in and give their own advice and experience with calls that we've had. So if someone called him it was like, hey, I had a threesome this is Bob. Oh, so people are giving their own advice. All right. So this is from episode three fifteen episode. Oh my gosh. It was an episode with me and Meghan. So this guy he was he's separated from his husband. And he started dating someone else. And the other guy was standoffish not really one of the other guy the guy that he's dating wasn't ready to commit. And so this is someone calling in similar experience. Okay. Hi, I am twenty three years old and calling in response to the latest episode with militia about the guy who has decorated and he's saying somebody else and the guy that other guys telling him, he's not ready for anything Syria. Okay. So I kind of in the same situation, except I was not the hauler. I was the guy was talking about Garda seeing my current boyfriend. And I kept telling him like, I'm not ready for anything serious, not ready for anything serious. But like I just got so wrapped up in my emot-. Sion's and my feelings about that. I find it just like a well, you can't be that bad. You know? And like I hate to say that I'm regretting it. But like I am in the process of life trying to break up with him. Because like, I wasn't ready for something serious, and I've really shouldn't have agreed to something. And I should've just stuck tonight gun until like, I it really sucks knowing that like I'm gonna hurt in like, there's really no other reason working with him of his. I'm just like I just don't want to be in a relationship. And so like, I think maybe I would say just like save yourself from the heartbreak because like if he says that he's not ready like he's not ready in like, I think that should just be respected and like as much as it sets for you. Like there are so many people out there be with and like there's so many other options and like you are getting separated. Like, maybe it's time to take some time for yourself. So that's all I have to say about that. I'm so sorry, I probably sound like a total asshole. But like you. You know, I've I've heard somebody say this before like it's sunny shows you who they really are like just trust them. And like I should've trust myself, and like I should have just respect my own boundaries. But and so I think that maybe you should show in the same respect. And he's not ready. He's not ready. And I think it's maybe ten on. So that's all not have a great day levied. Is goodbye. I really fucking hope your boyfriend does not listen not that he would. But like damn girl. Maybe not that. I'm judging you. But maybe maybe you should've called out you broke up. Wow. They just gave me like, anxiety, whatever. Well, do stupid stuff. She called she called money. Go. Did you guys break they probably done? No. But I think I think I think it's a valid. I think it totally take again saying I'm not ready for a relationship. You can't trust it because I don't I don't buy that. I'm not ready for a relationship because that's not a legitimate reason. Get like, I figure out exactly what you are feeling because I feel as if that is a blanket statement that takes care of a lot of things and people just use that as as a statement says Kirk or people just don't want to figure out what they're feeling say say, I'm not ready for relationship. They know and they're just not clean the other personality or how about this. Hey, I don't wanna relationship because I like having sex with other people I like Davis right now. Now, you want to be with you. But I don't I also think that like if you don't wanna relationship, it doesn't matter. How great like the person is because you don't want a relationship for exactly what you're saying. There's a reason like it's you you enjoy sleeping Suda. But then that's, but then they get to know the person in. It's it's totally changed. So I think I might. My my parents, my mom said I do not want to date you. I'm not attracted to you. And my dad going we live being attracting, they persistence and all that. And I I started dating I really wasn't sure if I was into him. But he was so persistent that like over the course of him being persistent. I was like, no. Yeah. I think I really am do. But I think when it comes to right in the sense that like the idea like I'm not ready for a relationship. I don't think it's a fair statement to make because it doesn't compass a bunch of things in also if you say that to somebody immediately. What like lot of people reactions are like I can show you differently. But if what you're saying if I'm not ready for a relationship right now, I'm really focusing on my work, and I'm going to be working really late. And I also don't have an a desire to have a relationship to pursue it make the time. Yeah. Then it's like, oh, okay. Then there's nothing I can do to change it or being like I like to sleep with multiple people or like any any anything about that? Like, I. Yeah. I think you're right. Mrs people need to be more specific what that is. Because we think that we can change that which Milam committal area. L A blows me away with dating where that becomes enormous saying I'm not ready for a relationship, you say purely to let the other person know that you're not that into them you're into them enough to want to have sex with sleep with them. But then you don't want to pursue it any farther. You say that. And then you keep dating until you find someone that it chained, but LA is specifically weird place. This person will never specifically where they are based on their area code. But there in the south. Yeah, that's coming out here. I'm not saying, yes. But I think it's also like I I've said before like, no, I'm not I'm not ready for a relationship looking for a relationship. And I said that when people ask me out not on a date like I wouldn't say that on a date Mike now, I'm actively not dating because I'm not ready for that. But then I think there's also I think a lot of people have a really hard time with the judgment of being like, I'm looking for something casual which is like I'm looking to have sex, and I think like that should be an okay statement to make because theme of the episode managing expectations. Like, that's the whole thing. It's you don't wanna you. Don't wanna. Say that to their for like have someone like not the into you. But I'm like, but you're going to do that anyway. And they're if there if there's a risk of they're not going to be into it, like just not telling them doesn't mean not gonna. Yeah. You're just not letting them know what they're in for that. We weren't supposed to give advice on that. Still. You always do. I realize also that my opinion of that is based on myself, which is even though when I was single when I would casually date and be, you know, hooking up with people I would not do it with multiple multiple people at once. That's not really how my brain works. Like, I was very systematic. Like, I would not be able to go do three girls at that. Like, I would have to. Okay. This is not going to go any further. I I'd have to move on that day. You have to end with them in a very nice way. And then they wouldn't hate you. Yeah. It was time. I remember how do I do this? Hopefully enjoyed this episode. I'm Leah thanks for being on. You guys have me on a really really enjoy doing love having come on all the time whenever you do want to do this again. I wanna get a plaque that don't me most most what if it does sachet. And then he went to wear a podcasting. Would you be a podcast? I'm pastor. Oh, yeah. Podcasters podcast. He sure or podcast or two. But I think the podcast you would be the one. That's listening. Yeah. Fence right in and tell us. So where can people follow you? Who is Leo all of my social media's. I don't believe it. I don't believe it's all a facade. It's the government becoming day toes gonna plug. His I have an Instagram. Yes. Not that. Interesting question. Isn't it like a who is Leo was my Instagram? I am here. But I don't I don't use Twitter tweeting. I did like that ironic thing. But you didn't do I don't want in ten years to go down the road. Someone's like you said some bucked up ship. Of course, I done. That's what I do say. I say it all the time which I wanted to do a podcast myself. But I said no way because if I do podcasts, especially if it's me just rambling and I'm in control of rambling horrible straight white guys should have microphones without anybody else. Like joining them. Yeah. I disagree with you. No, everybody needs like that female friends would be like, what do I know? A great gift. Great podcast podcastone, you melt it can start one. Ooh, how bad you, can you imagine? That would be the most interesting hot. I feel like you guys would be number one. Thank you. I think. So many people that are so interesting 'cause I wanna do it. But then part of me is just like why? Yeah, I come in. Just just regular fixture on ours. Anything else you want people to plug? Do you know freakish? Did that actually pay for it? Yeah. Instead of just watching it you're not gonna plug my own stuff. I just want everyone to be encouraged to live a good life. Fuck feel good about you. And again rolling their eyes. I don't know why. It's a good message this whole rooms roll their eyes like they don't fuck and like happiness. There's one watching these really earnest, and doesn't know that like, we're friends and everything. So she'll champ. He just wants us to live a happy life. Do I do wanna? I didn't want to be happy. If you guys enjoyed this episode to make sure to leave us review on the podcast up. And if you are watching it go listen to it. And if you are listening to it go watch it on YouTube too. And if you're going to be part of an upcoming episode, you can leave us a voicemail at three one zero six nine four zero nine seven six, and if you're international listener, you can leave us an audio message E mail it to us at Meghan podcasts at g mail dot com. Our social will be listened to. And if you guys aren't subscribed to a Detriot guys, we do bonus ups, and there are so good. We just debunked a bunch of myths up about penises or maybe that's we recorded it. So who knows when that will be up it'll be up after this. Yeah. So you guys want to hear some Pena Smith's one of the involves breaking Dicks on? Joe? We've talked about we've talked about it. We figured out what the visions breaks Dick's most often. Yep. Don't what what I want to be a part of that as well. Right. What wolf okay? We'll talk. Okay. We'll talk to you guys next week. 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Is Big Tech Fueling the Climate Disinformation War?

The Energy Gang

1:02:56 hr | 1 year ago

Is Big Tech Fueling the Climate Disinformation War?

"The energy gang is brought to you by Sun. Gro Son grow is the leading solar invert or supplier Bhai volume in the world. It's now leading in the Americas as well with more than three gigawatts shipped in the last two years. Sandro invert of the backbone of some of the most innovative projects in the world from floating peavy too big projects tech companies. Find out more about their innovations in both solar and storage at Sun. GRO POWER DOT COM From Green Tech Media. This is the energy gang weekly debates and discussions on the fast changing world energy. I'm Stephen Lacey. Hi May contributing any editor at GTM and your host. Welcome to the show. This week is big tech fueling. The climate disinformation war as we continue to reckon with the dark side of silicon looking. Valley's tech giant's there's more scrutiny into how these companies are assisting climate denial obfuscation and building the digital backbone of industries that are wrecking the planet. Senate how much criticism do they deserve. Where does their culpability lie? It's a murky subject. Then trump makes it official America's leaving the Paris this climate agreement with U s global leadership in shambles. WHO'S GONNA fill the gap and how could elections change things? Finally California's wildfire crisis is stoking. The state's distributed generation market will look at the business impacts jigger. You're out in California this week in early morning recording session out there in San Francisco. Good morning how's everything I think going. It's good it's good it's It was a it was a nice flight and the embassy. Suites is treating me well. How do things feel like post wildfire? Chaos I think it still feels pretty uncertain right. I mean in general. There's a cloud now he over over people in terms of you know. PG saying it could take ten years to fix this problem and so people are trying to make decision about whether they buy a backup generator or move to another place or other things. Like it's like I don't think folks have forgotten about it. Oh certainly not not as part of the discussion at the end of the show. We're going to talk about now. That people are more frightened. More aware of the situation What that means for sales of generators and batteries and solar systems with batteries and the a whole range of solutions that are out there out here on the east coast down in Washington? DC is Catherine Hamilton Katherine. How low it is cold as the Dickens here I I take my dog for a walk every morning. And she's not. The kind of dog wears clothing but this morning. I put a little coat on her. Are you going to be watching impeachment hearings. This week I would love to I have a day job so I will be doing that and I have. I have a bunch of meetings. But I'M GONNA try to catch them on I can because it's going to be really interesting Political Theater Catherine is the chair of thirty eight nor solutions. Okay the first topic. This week encompasses a lot of different stories. So I'm going to try to break it down to a few components. Firstly there's this debate going on over political speech on facebook and twitter in energy. Climate is playing into it. So we're going to dig in a bit there. Secondly companies like Google and facebook or getting called out once again for their support of groups that promote the worst kind have climate denial and disinformation these groups. Take a lot of other stances that tech companies directly support so how much these companies need to consider climate against those other issues. A lot of employees within those companies are calling them out and so it's kind of putting them in an uncomfortable situation finally Amazon. Google and Microsoft are basically automating the climate crisis. There's been some great reporting on this. which will discuss? How should we think about their role in culpability so first of the political ads in the last last couple of weeks? There's been this split between facebook and twitter. FACEBOOK says it will give any kind of political advertising free rein twitter says. It's just going to ban political ads entirely both decisions agents have consequences and speak to just how powerful these companies are so facebook is leading political ads from campaigns loosens platform. Without any fact checking which Zuckerberg announced a couple of weeks ago. It got a lot of pushback This company this comes as a new study from a vase. showed that impressions for fake news are ramping up up on facebook into the election season circulating more widely than any other type of credible news content. So we're GONNA talk about that in a minute but first twitter took the opposite stance saying it would just ban all political ads. It would allow some issue as it don't directly target politicians legislation however and that's causing a very curious climate related consequence. Emily Atkin a contributor to the new Republican author of this great client. Newsletter called heeded dug into those ads after the policy was announced and she found that adds taken out by pro-climate action groups. Were getting band. We're likely to get banned while ads from large fossil fuel companies defending themselves against say lawsuits or promoting greenwashing. We'll get to stay on the platform. Elizabeth Warren weighed in twitter. CEO Jack Dorsey said he'd consider the problem as long as you know as they worked through the rules later this month so What how do we define issue ads? what could be the disadvantage disadvantage for climate messaging. That's a big question that people are asking right now and certainly when Elizabeth Warren thrust herself into the debate it nationalize this conversation. So jigger thoughts on twitter's decision here at least for the time being there are few Exxon ads floating around that directly respond to like allegations from attorneys general and also journalistic investigations allegations about whether or not the company hit with a new about climate change. How should we be thinking about these kinds of ads in terms of political speech within twitter's new boundaries? Yeah I you know I in general. I don't think restricting speech is a good idea. I mean I I don't love what the social media. The companies have done to public discourse but at the end of the day I feel like the First Amendment is still the First Amendment and people should be able to not have restricted speech. So I think that like and so then the question really becomes. How do you create a more level playing field? And that's where I think twitter probably got it wrong rate great because it sounds like Exxon has figured out how to get around twitter's most recent decision where a lot of other climate advocates. The kids can't get around it because by definition if their nonprofit they're engaging in political speech yeah but I think we also need to kind of step up our game here so so Exxon has been doing this forever. They're really good at this. They just are using twitter and facebook now as new media but they have been doing the same thing for a long time in couching it in and you. These are the facts. This is the real story. This is truly what's happening in. I think they are willing to be completely disingenuous. Lie about it and I think part part part of our our issue as as scientists or climate activists is that we're so interested in just being careful about telling the truth in in some ways. We have to take some lessons from their tactics. That's right Catherine Exxon has been doing this for a long time. And this feels like a modern variation of issue advertising sizing that they have been doing for years. They are trying to convince the public of something now. It seems Kinda clear cut to me that you know. Exxon is commenting on politics and politicians. It's coming commenting on investigations. It spreading quasi conspiracy theory about a cadre of Liberal funders and politicians and journalists us. Who are out to get the company that to me? Feels like political speech That's a problem well and when it was on the other side everybody was cheering. It on right remember when twitter and facebook were used to take down governments in Egypt and Tunisia and frankly in Columbia and other places around the world everyone was like. Oh this is amazing. Amazing now that facebook is being used to promote genocide in Myanmar and other places people are like. Oh wait a second. Maybe it wasn't amazing. I remember the State Department in had like a head of social media at the State Department under Hillary Clinton's reign a sanctuary state Saying wow we need to really understand. What social media's GonNa do but most of what they were thinking about was it was going to be a positive force for social change while absolutely and so we all fell in love with this techno libertarian view of the world until it completely fell apart and we understood the dangers his of widespread free speech on these platforms without any sort of regulation whatsoever? I don't know what that regulation looks like. It makes me kind of nauseous ashes and clearly when twitter steps in an issue. Some kind of regulation. You have very clear cases where people are getting around it and it causes an imbalance in the type of political speech. That's allowed on the platform so I don't have an answer. Both sides make me nauseous at this point and kind of worried about The the vibrancy of speech on these platforms. Yeah in the regulation. You're talking about is self-regulation what that is is. They're setting their own rules for what they WANNA do and twitter and facebook are doing it in different ways. But they're both sort of trying to self police and their inconsistent as we can see a couple years ago I was at the tom-tom festival well and you know was asked on stage. What should be done about facebook at the time and you know I said to be regulated utility company right? I mean it doesn't like to me the thing is is that this is not new. Reitman people were able to publish. You know any old article they wanted to on you know in newspapers in the seventeen hundreds of the eighteen hundreds right and then people were able to do whatever they wanted to do on the airwaves in terms of You know tell television. And eventually the government had to regulate folks and say here's a set of rules by which to regulate these These utility companies and you know I think that the FCC step in and regulate them just like we regulate everything else. So I talked with Reed Hunt. who was the former federal? Communications Commission Chair are under Bill Clinton during nineteen ninety six Telecoms Act and what he said was look the TV radio broadcasting are is under a completely completely different set of First Amendment regulations. Because they're using public property to broadcast. There is a part of this eighteen ninety six act and it's the communications it's Decency Act and it's section two two thirty which is really important to why twitter and facebook are able to do what they can. Because section two thirty protects sweb services and social networks which is enclosed facebook twitter but also blogs from being held legally responsible for hosting or facilitating any online speech. wjr They completely can do anything they want to do. So in order to regulate them you have to change this. US CODE TO THIRTY FROM THE COMMUNICATIONS COMMUNICATIONS DECENCY ACT to put them under it too. But right now they the only thing we have with them is self policing we cannot regulate them as the loss. DANCE DANCE SO Catherine chewed the laws. There's this law plies to You know companies that are advertising truth in advertising laws. Those don't apply to political speech or to the social media platforms so like what in theory could would hold politicians accountable. If they're lying on these platforms like I it from a regulatory perspective yet so as I said you would have have to change that section two thirty in some way to be able to have legal recourse but of course these platforms can also self regulate so what facebook has tried to do. And I listened to a fascinating interview with Sheryl Sandberg on a podcast that Katy cocoas call next question in Katy Kirk does not pull johnny punches with her questions Although Sheryl Sandberg is so much smoother than marks up Hooker Berg Mark Zuckerberg is just awkward in every possible way But that's your social media company. Yeah but she has an answer to everything And so what she's saying is look. We have thirty. Five thousand moderators is that are reviewing all of the content plus there are just algorithms catch owed millions of fake pages and fake accounts every single day so they took down in three months like two point. Two billion fake accounts They shut down fifty different. You know state campaigns on by state I mean other country nation campaigns pains that are were trying to interfere with our elections. They've tried to say you know we are GonNa take down hate speech where going to take down anything that's voter suppression. We're going going to Fact check and I asked my husband. 'cause I'm not on facebook and he said he was following somebody and there was like a part of the posting was in gray and it said Ed this posting was found to potentially not be true and he didn't know what that man he thought maybe his account had been hacked or something so it's a little unclear how they're doing it it But but by doing this. There's some still some inconsistencies so people who are trying to work on voter registration could also be blocked not just voter. Suppression is just that it's inconsistent in part of this is holding them to account on their consistency. Yeah and Katherine Heyhoe. WHO's a climate scientists out of Texas Tech Very well known evangelical? Climate scientists had a film series on climate climate. Change that they would promote using. Twitter's excuse me facebook's echo chamber they could promote the video to a wide range of of of users they got they got banned from that practice because facebook determined that climate change and clean energy where political issues and they were no longer going to be able to use their promotion tools in the same way. That other issues are. It's impossible to understand how what what standards these companies are using and so although there's a difference in policy here between whether facebook allows ads ah political ads. And whether twitter bans them ultimately the outcome is the same in that climate and clean energy are deemed political issues exclusively in are not getting proper due on the platforms now. Of course there's political ways of approaching them in many of the groups have a political bent their messaging. But it seems like there's a blanket problem album here for those issues and there's no judicial review so if you don't like their decision you can't really appeal it so facebook does say that they're putting together together. These content advisors that will review cases like this. They're only going to be forty of them so I do not know how they're going to be able to look at everything that's out there that has to be reviewed and this isn't the thirty five thousand people who are reviewing ads in content. Things like that. These are those who have to adjudicate these case by case examples So they're looking to how they can do it. I absolutely sure it's not going to be a perfect process. No it's not it's not working at all. I mean this new research search from a vase shows that there's more fake news getting traction than real news on the platform they have not been able to control it. Yes they've been able to stick. Stick their finger and a bunch of holes and the dike. Absolutely are there. Are they working harder than they did. During the during two thousand fifteen in the lead up to the twenty sixteen election of course they are because their reputation depends on it but there self regulation is not fully working and there's so much crap that is still on the platform that is going viral. These companies are built on emotional reactions. They have one button that they push and they know the emotional reaction gets more clicks and likes and re tweets M that that is their business model. It's how they shovel people to advertisers. You know I don't use facebook that often anymore. I've had an account for a long time but I recently as research before for this episode for the last week or so have been using the platform and also instagram constantly. And I've been clicking on ads and I've been clicking on you know User profiles and what I did was I started clicking on so in theory. Facebook knows a lot about me right when I started clicking on Stuff related to do you know people who had grew up with WHO really conservative. Where trump voters and I just I was interacting with their stuff at all? I was just looking at their profiles looking at some of their their Breath postings and all of a sudden all started getting was conservative like memes and shit shoveled my way and it was like okay. First of all the platform doesn't doesn't really know me and second of all like you do one thing and they just like glomming onto it and they're like you want more of this Same thing when you plus an an ad I have an ad. I was interested in one ad on instagram related to shoes all of a sudden all they show my way as shoe ads. Recently I looked up like a meal meal plan And all I'm getting is just like ads for meal plans and so these companies are face claim to have these sophisticated algorithms. But they're just built on on emotional engagement and throwing things your way that you're interacting with in real time and it's a really negative consequence for say climate denial for for our continued echo chambers. That foster this kind of disinformation. It's a real problem and they're not doing enough about it. They're I think they're doing a terrible terrible job. Well it's the opposite right. I mean they because engagement is what fuels them. If you look at the top one hundred shared stories and facebook number one one was The one where you know accused down trump's data being part of the KKK which is false but the stories two through ninety nine were all right wing propaganda news stories right and so the reason why Zuckerberg has been hosting these dinners with right wing. You know folks folks is because he gets the fact that they use his platform better engage users more than the left does like and and so he's like well you know like I get paid for engagement and advertisement to people who are engaged so therefore like I want more engagement right and I don't I don't really care whether it's positive negative. I don't have any responsibilities for the planet and I think that's true but all the tech companies right. I mean that's the part that I find and so Infuriating when people sort of try to ascribe values to companies. It literally doesn't make any sense. Remember recently the those at Business Roundtable. That said that they're going to care more about everybody not just Shareholders and then apple just like took down an APP in the APP store because the Chinese this government said you know you can't be helping people in Hong Kong like in general. I would say every one of these tech companies are saying no. We're here to make money right and we really don't care what happens to society or other things so let's go to facebook really quickly shortly after the decision to not do anything about our political ads sucker. Berg was on Capitol Hill where lawmakers grilled him about all kinds of subjects related to speech even though he was actually there to talk about his crypto currency plan which is falling apart it resulted in this really interesting exchange with representative Alexandria Cossio Cortes. Let's listen to. Could I run. ADS Targeting Getting Republicans in primaries saying that they voted for the green new deal. Sorry I repeat that. Would I be able to run advertisements on on facebook targeting Republicans and primary saying that they voted for the green new deal. I mean if you're not fact checking political advertisements trying to understand the bounds here. What's soon I don't know the answer to that off the top of my head? I think I'll be able to do that. Do you see a potential problem. uh-huh here with a complete lack of fact checking political advertisements. Well congresswoman. I think lying is bad. I think if you were to run an ad that had alive that would be bad add. That's different from it. Being from from our position the right thing to do to prevent your constituents three people in an election from seeing that you had lied so we can. So you won't take down lies or you will take down lies. I think there's just a pretty simple yes or no congresswoman in spin I'm talking about actual yes democracy. I believe that people should be able to see for themselves what what politicians that they may or may not vote for take out or for themselves. So you wanting you may flag that it's wrong but you won't take it down that prompted a liberal liberal pack to take out an ad on facebook that falsely showed Republican senator Lindsey Graham fawning over the green new deal and the ad stayed up for a day before getting taken down. It's actually still on facebook. It just can't be promoted And facebook said that the ad was taken down because it came from a political action committee not a politician so in theory a politician so AFC herself could put up the same ad and it would make the rounds without penalty in perpetuity. Basically What does this I tell us about facebook's policy I mean it's a it's we've already talked about the dangers of how they're regulating speech but that feels to me? It's kind of a funny example but it also feels to me like it's just blatantly shows how terrible facebook's policy is well. The other thing it shows is that you know folks who have no shame can use the platform with impunity in the folks who have shame can't right so I mean. LLC would never put on an ad that it that with her name with her money saying that Lindsey Graham supported the new deal. Green your deal. She wouldn't do it. But Lindsey Graham. I'm sure we'll put up an ad saying that you know. He talked to the Ukrainian president himself and nothing went wrong right because he doesn't care right. I mean this is the thing is like like we're in a world right now where where folks are lying on television forget about facebook mean folks are lying in in public on television about all sorts of things things and you know like people get away with it. I mean how James Inhofe took a snowball into the Senate and said you know like look. This proves global warming is not real. I mean that that just doesn't and he didn't get shamed for people kinda laughed so then this brings us to the bigger question about what kind of fact checking these platforms should be doing if they should be be doing it As you mentioned Catherine facebook has ruled out some of these features that indicate that something might not be coming from a credible news source. I I have seen them in the wild but I'll tell you what when people post individual postings like to my feet you know it's someone I there's this Story story has been making the rounds about global cooling again and a bunch of people from that group with from high school have been posting it. And there's no fact checking around that from individual posters So the question is You know that's that's hard to regulate if like an individual's posting something but when it comes to publishers and so forth that are putting out like terrible ads or even political candidates what is how does how does facebook think about doing this. I these these companies claim that their platforms platforms right there. I live defense is we. Don't our job is to get the information out there and to let people decide. We are not publishers we we are platforms and that is clearly falling apart facebook. Has You know facebook. Google and twitter sucked up like eighty five percent of the ad revenue. That once went two newspapers shifted from things like craigslist which was the the first vacuum that sucked up ad revenue from newspapers and now as these social media companies and Their platforms are built to get engagement and to push really terrible news which is according to this recent report getting still getting more traction than regular news so if these companies are not platforms and they are publishers. What role should they have in fact checking stuff which is really really important for things like climate denial which can spread very quickly as a negative or outrageous news story? So do either of you have any thoughts on on the media side of this or the journalism side of this. Should they be fact checking in a way that puts them closer to a traditional newspaper or or media outlet. So they're kind of two issues as you were. You were citing different kinds of ads. I was thinking about the only man. I'm on twitter but I'm also on Instagram so I because I'm not on facebook I can then follow my sister and my friends on instagram in instagram. Feeds me a pretty steady supply of things that I can purchase many of which I do and and you know they know what I like and sometimes they go overboard with the warm socks but you know That's what they knew about me but I don't get issue ads. You know like I don't get things about about topic areas because that's not how I engage in the platform so there's two things one is like people who are trying to sell something. Social media is a great a place to go. I think it's super effective getting people to Click and purchase But the same of course could be true The issue campaign side and I think I think we just need to call call for transparency to find out what their rules are. Because I don't think we even know what they are. These broad statements about like we don't want hate speech or voter suppression but but then what does that actually mean. What kinds of things are they pulling down? So I I would call for a lot more transparency on that front. Well this is why I like the journalistic example example more than the Supreme Court example. FACEBOOK is putting together this Supreme Court that will make key decisions but if you want to be transparent media outlets let's at least mainstream ones like the New York Times or major newspapers are pretty transparent about the editorial decisions they make when they make decision. They haven't on buds men who goes Out and solicits feedback from the public and then makes a determination about whether that was the correct decision editorial decision and then it communicates indicates that and it's a pretty good system. It works really well. It creates a sense of trust and that's the journalistic version of what you do and it's more of a a real time version whereas the supreme court is this kind of Stodgy Ah like opaque body that makes decisions a little bit more slowly and deliberately sure. facebook might need that. But if we're talking about internal regulations something more public facing and transparent ombudsmen is going to be really important and they're gonNA need to communicate a little bit better but I think I agree that there's GonNa be some combination of better self regulation and some kind of government regulation. That is pretty clear. Okay so that part of the conversation went on longer than I thought so. Let me just get this second part of the conversation There's new reporting in the Guardian about how Google and on facebook are still backing groups like the Consumer Competitive Enterprise Institute the State Policy Network Americans for tax reform and others. which are these leading? Libertarian groups that AH pretty clearly have for a long time spread messages about how. Co Two is good for the planet that climate scientists a hoax or that any price on carbon would be a threat to the economy. Me We've known about these affiliations for a long time Google's affiliation with these groups I think was reported on like back in twenty eleven but they've continued and now employs he's at Google and Amazon and even Microsoft have all raised public concerns about these affiliations so these companies are obviously hedging politically there. These are libertarian. Groups that have been strong strong defenders of lax regulations that benefit the text come tech companies. But how do these companies have any obligation to consider the climate denial espoused by these groups. oops which can be really bad. Catherine what do you think what is their responsibility to kind of way. Climate against all these other issues that they they benefit from so the only reason they should consider climate above any other reason is if their shareholders and employees force them to and their and their customers force them to so the Google employees. Ah a bunch of Google. Employees sent a letter. That said you know we want zero emissions by twenty thirty zero contracts to enable fossil fuels and zero collaboration with all these entities that enable oppression of refugees in front line communities so they they were very clear about their demands and I think when Jake shareholders demand that as well that that will cause them to change change I mean companies give money to all kinds of groups and all kinds of conferences and because one one person at a conference is talking about. It's something crazy You know it's hard whole a company accountable for the entire content of the conference or the entire thrust of the conference which may be much more. Libertarian Dan anti-regulation which would help the business. So you know. I think it's it's really hard. It's hard for us as hard for me as a policy person to try to hold them accountable. I think it's much more on their customers. Their employees and their shareholders to do so so jigger is climate any different here obviously obviously companies all the time work with groups that are not consistent with every issue that a certain company cares about but if they're directionally supportive of the policies that are going to benefit the company. Of course they're going to work with a lobbying firm or a an association or a think tank is climate any different though. Like should we be doing these companies to a different standard because of the severity of climate change. Or is it just like any other issue. You it from this perspective. It's like any other issue. This is a nothing burger story right. You're talking about you mean from this perspective. What do you mean exactly Google's core your business is to own your information right nothing else? They really don't care about anything else right. So to the extent that their servers are powered by renewable energy great to the extent that they actually figure out a way to help autonomous vehicles reduced carbon emissions fantastic right but they're also secretly trying to like you know put together a search engine that that filters Search results for China. Right that to me is part of their core business and that to me is something their employees should rise is up against and say not in my house right but in terms of like climate change. And whether there's somebody else on a panel somewhere I mean how. How many times have I sponsored answer to conference and Shell and BP Ecuador over there telling everybody how natural gas was GonNa Save the World Right? I mean there's lots of places where you go somewhere because because the right audience members are there you sponsor the conference you actually want to influence as audience members and some of the people on stage or saying things that you don't necessarily early agree with you know then say well I'm not GonNa talk to that audience so on one side of this you've got like pretty stalwart are advocates. People like bill mckibben or Senator Sheldon Whitehouse. Who have called these companies out Sheldon Whitehouse? Said you don't get a pass on it right just you just. I don't get a pass bill mckibben. Who started you know? Three fifty in the do the math movement and really was at the forefront of demonizing fossil fuel companies said that this is functional functional greenwashing so on their end of the spectrum. They're saying sorry it you know. I don't care if you've got other issues that you care about. This is the issue of our time like like He. Just don't get a pass anymore and I wonder at what point that argument starts gaining. Traction like is a ten years from now. I mean I think most people have your reaction Jigger right like even if they they know that these companies shouldn't be supporting groups with that messaging. They understand these murky relationships but is is there a moment when that that doesn't cut it anymore. It feels to me like we're gonNA reach that point. Yeah how far do you take this. Though right I mean because of index funds and the fact that everybody in there in the country actually just invest in a 401k with their like five choices More money is going to coal hole today than was going into Col- five years ago because coal just hasn't allocation and so now blackrock is in trouble for like having this allocation it's all because of automated investing etc so black rock is now a villain right and then you go to The divestment movement right and because of the vessel movement mint the return on investment for mining and fossil fuels is never been higher so a lot of the billionaires that you love who are like promoting climate change solutions are fully invested in mining and coal and oil mining private equity investments right. That's how Bill Gates it's gives away five billion dollars a year and still seems to get ten billion dollars of additional wealth every year right and so so like on the one hand they're automated Robo so investors are like sort of investing in the worst stuff in the world to be able to make a higher return and on the other hand. They're like giving five hundred million dollars to to and call right and so I think there's a lot of outrage to go around and we all Wanna be outraged all day. That's great but I just think the notion that like that. I'm going to sit around and just being a concert of outrage. Yeah I choose not to live my life that way and I think we can. We can still call them out for greenwashing. We need to be honest about that But yeah I tend to agree with jigger on this one. So listeners are going to hear an edited version of this conversation that moves for. But we've been spending a lotta time on this topic. We need to get moving so we're not going to spend a lot of time on this last piece of it. which is now people are calling up these companies? You know Amazon Google Microsoft for inking billions of dollars in contracts with it you know for automation for cloud services for machine learning to the world's biggest oil companies to to help them drill for more oil. We did have this conversation. Maybe a few months back At at I guess my question is are you applying the same standards right this You're skeptical of the framing last time. Essentially what you just outlined there do you have the same reaction to these companies relationships with Fossil also few extraction companies. Yeah because I think that for whatever reason we think that. Ai and machine learning is sort of different than computers. Right if apple like if if apple doesn't ban sales of their computers to Exxon Mobil and the oil companies that make you outraged right but but those are those are tools by which does companies become more productive by which they actually like become more efficient at getting oil out of the ground. You should be outraged right but if you know Amazon web web services or Google says well we're going to like sell you services to organize your information in ways that allows you to make better decisions in the future then. Everyone's outraged. I just feel like these companies are in the pickaxe and shovel business right like they're not actually mining for gold. They sell pickaxes and shovels and blue jeans so the people who mined for gold and they make billions of dollars doing that and I'm not surprised when they sell whatever their core product is to people who WANNA buy their core product I again I share this feeling that we shouldn't be outraged all the time and that we need to direct our outraged the most productive. But but let me just take the other side of this. Let's look at it another way right. If these companies were doing the same thing for a product that we knew clearly cause cancer in hundreds of millions of people that they were supplying all these services and inking all these major contracts would we let it play off like it wasn't the normal course of business. I don't think so and I do think we'll get to a point. I have no idea when when and that kind of standard will be applied to these companies. I doubt it I mean so if if right now if Google provided did services to jewel or ultra which which do provide do cause cancer only cares right. I and that's what I'm saying like I I just think the notion like everyone's GonNa be Patagonia and say you have to go through this group who has to approve you or else you can't have vast. That's not going to happen. The energy gang is brought to you by Sun. Gro Sandro has more than eighty seven gigawatts converters deployed across the globe. It's growing rapidly in the US. And it's working. 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GRO POWER DOT COM as promise this month trump officially started the process assess to withdraw America from the Paris global climate treaty. We knew this was coming. But it's a despicable act of US leadership in. It's still kind of a shock that we're in this moment when a country of our stature and influence is walking away from one of the most important diplomatic efforts of our time so catherine what happens now. Logistically as this process to retreat from the Paris treaty gets underway yet so logistically Very fortunately the agreement was crafted such that it is very easy to get back in so if the president were to change to someone who believes in being in the Paris accord they could simply the first day. They're in office. Say We want back in the letter and we're in it's much harder. It takes a lot longer to get out in part of that is because it is. It is non-binding it's all voluntary. What is binding? Is that we. We are part of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change You and FCCC and that Congress ratified it was under George H W Bush it was ratified in Congress by voice. Vote that is what is binding and so by stepping out of Paris. We're still still not stepping back from that. Because Paris was not binding but what it does mean is unfortunately a couple of things one is that we are ceding. Leadership were preceding the ability to see what's going on to to hold other countries accountable for their emissions to have transparency and tracking tools in replace. So we puts us at a huge disadvantage from that perspective in. We're not completely sure I talked to someone who's really involved in these negotiations. How the diplomatic pieces going to work out because it is not binding the retribution from other countries? which has been hinted at is really could come from in the form of trade sanctions so there are some trade options that other countries could put on us to prevent like? They did in Brazil about the Amazon fires which countries I did and made them change their behavior. They other countries could do this to us. We don't know if that will happen. But as far as the the treaty itself we the the Paris accord we can get back in at any point very easily. That's why I think this story matters. Hence my strong language and the introduction. It's not about the goals of the treaty radio coming. Of course it is about the goals but it's about the diplomatic efforts involved and the US walking away from this important fabric. Rick of diplomacy. That has now guides all geopolitics. I mean climate negotiations are a part of all kinds of diplomacy now and so walking away from this causes all kinds of consequences in your relationships with other countries yet and remember the. US has been a really constructive presence even during this awesome industry so State Department National Security Council those folks are have been continuing to negotiate the rule book around Paris. Whether or not you know they believe in all the tenets of it the people who have been on the other side of this have been those right wing think tanks conservative enterprise institute PRUITT when he was a DP. Those are the folks who were getting trump to bring it down not the folks who are actually in the room negotiating jigger. What are the the diplomatic consequences of this withdrawal? Well it hurts. US companies right. I mean the biggest problem with this always has been that. US companies are the ones going around the world pushing climate solutions rights whether it's solar and wind companies or in the future small modular reactors or you know hydro or whatever technology were pushing in general. US companies are far smarter than European companies at doing a project finance in many of these markets and using OPEC connection bank and others. You know are better tools than some of the tools at the Europeans. Have and so you're in a situation now where you're you're going to these governments airman saying we're better than everyone else providing the service to you and here's all of the benefits that we have and then people look at you funny and say but you guys went out of the Paris agreement right and you're like well. That was a me that was my government and was it my fault but you know I still have a solution I wanna sell to you and then when you go to the State Department and you go to the embassy and say hey. Are you going to help me with this. They might help you because you're a company that's American but they might not help you. There might be like well. We don't really do junkets doc. It's for you know. Climate change companies. And we don't really like. Have you know these sort of education seminars. Every month like the German embassy does or the UK embassy does around promoting their climate companies. Right in this this turns out to be. The challenges is at an all these small ways. American companies have a much larger hurdle to climb yeah and our diplomats. The mets have less juice as a result. What about political reactions within the US? Is there any price to be paid politically for trump. Catherine like that's almost like it's silly question to be asking at this point because there appears to be no political price but like You know in the general election. Let's say does does this way on voters minds in any way at all. Well I think climate does so. We'll see what happens in the election. Right I mean I think we're seeing on state and local elections that Climate Change makes a difference and so if you noted the the whole this next iteration of press around pulling out of Paris was pretty small for the president. It was not a great press day forum so I don't think it's helpful from a diplomatic point view from as Jigger said from an economic point of view and I think politically we'll see. I think politically. It's going to be quite damaging for him right because think about it. Like the the official official date that we get out of Paris is the day after the election rate so you can imagine the rallying cry if you're somebody who cares deeply about climate which many many people who are first time voters In this election are going to be You know it's pretty easy to say. Hey vote tomorrow because if you don't we're getting Out of Paris agreement the next day right and you know and whether or not it's true that you know the next president elect can can stop that from happening. They probably can't Sant. Were probably complete the process and then go back in but I think it's going to be a huge rallying cry for you know. Eighteen year olds who are voting for the first time. What happens if a Democrat wins Catherine in the US comes groveling back to the international community has to put together. Its Plan of action once again. First of all what happens. Logistically second of all will the international community. Welcome us with open arms so first of all logistically. It's much easier to get get back in than to go out. So they send a letter to the U. N. and say we're back in. We'd like to get back in and start negotiations again. Remember there still are career staff who are part of these negotiations. That have always been there. So they're they're not politicals at all so there has been some communication in any way on the ground so I don't think that it's that we just have been completely absent. I think also people globally see president trump as really a different from any other president that we've had so while they may have somewhat less trust in the American political system. I think they will know that trump was very different from other presidents and will probably be really glad if the US steps back up because as jigger says we offer so many solutions in so many different ways not just just technology but also financing. Yeah I don't and by the way I think I don't think the US gravel to anything. Right I think we're GONNA come to the table and I think our seat will be sitting there and it'll be warmed up. What happens if trump wins then is the final question? What what is the scenario for global progress or lack thereof? Does it carry on. When do we have more bilateral negotiations to people you know turn their shoulders and say on the? US is doing enough internally to things get seriously derailed like what what happens is if we have another four years of a trump presidency well under the Obama Presidency. We lost the Democrats lost over a thousand seats right in state legislatures. There's an governorships. I mean I think I think at the end of Obama's administration. They're like thirty seven or thirty six republican governors. And so today it's back to like twenty five twenty five and you've got a lot of legislation on this way within one. In four Americans now live in states that have mandated one hundred percent clean energy. And you know probably one in three in places where utilities have also Gone that way or the city's so I think that you know from the perspective of action there has have been more action today than there ever has been and that's largely because of a revolt against trump and his rhetoric and his policies and so I mean I'm in most of the clean energy businesses. I know of are doing better today than they were three years ago. Yeah I fear that if trump is elected again there there for numerous reasons but one of the things is that I think the bilaterals are actually going to be harder to do because I think countries are not going to feel that they wanna come to the table and deal with us on clean energy or trade. If we're not in the agreement so I think that's when we would see some trade reputation finally back to California -fornia once again in the wake of the wildfires. Google searches and sales of generators have surged. What about solar and batteries? What about You know micro grids. You wouldn't necessarily Google search for a product for micro grids Homeowners are searching for other options along with traditional traditional like diesel generators according to energy sage this comparison platform for solar and storage quotes. They are very big platform. There has been a major surge urgent interest in the technology. They saw this crazy. Shoot up in the number of quotes that they were delivering on the platform in California and according to Vin Solar CEO Joe that is resetting the California Market California has of course slowed in recent years because of market saturation. But that may be reversing. So what we'll be the business outcome for distributed generation solar batteries and maybe mixed micro grids on the commercial side in California. Jigger U U.. Penn this op Ed with Timothy Timothy. Hate of scale micro grid solutions in the Sacramento Bee. What were you arguing with? Regards the rule of distributed generation as a tool in California's corneas disaster. Preparation Kit. Well in general. I think what we're arguing is that they're going to decide to fix this problem problem for themselves right and it's not something where you're going to just tolerate two point five billion dollars worth of losses and economic output and sit around and say I hope he genie solves the problem there. People buying diesel generators there are people buying natural gas generators. And what we were saying is that there needs to be more. I system matic approach to giving people alternatives to the current grid infrastructure. Right and so that if people wanted to you get A micro or people wanted to use The solar plus storage using virtual net metering or some some of these other programs that there was actually a sort of streamlining of the process by which we can get there. Because I think that the the challenge we have right now is that all of these solutions are actually quite difficult to get done right on. The utility companies are completely backlogged in terms of interconnections of. You really want to have a solution in place by next August when you know wildfire season starts again good luck you know like what the current rules. You're not really on track to to be able to get that done in time and so it does require California. Think to be more proactive. Run enacting policies and incentives that sort of leverage the states. You you know innovation to get it out in the marketplace faster. Yeah there's some real regulatory barriers for distributed energy resources like just the whole wholesale ellen retail price signals not being aligned that the resource adequacy construct that they have out. There doesn't really give value for aggregated hybrid. Resources on on the edge of the grid that Energy storage behind. The meter is at a real disadvantage and That that the ability to to do micro grids island is this is really should be able to be much easier more easily done so I think if the CPC and Jigger. And I had a conversation with them yesterday. They were really the open to new ideas. I think it's almost like we gotta get out of the dam to get out of the way and provide much more ease of entry for all of these different print solutions. So how big is the fire. Bump for solar and batteries are we gonNA see a whole new stage of market growth it. Obviously we have to wait to see Q.. Four numbers burst and then public Q.. One numbers to determine how lasting this reaction will be but juice think that will see a significant fire bump in those technologies. Oh Jeez well you have to define significant right. I mean I think as a percentage terms shore in terms of actually their sales Not Not really not yet right. I mean I think that as this moves forward. I think you're going to see more. It's really more about the solar companies reengaging and marketing. The solar companies really retreated treated heavily on the marketing side after solar city was purchased by Tesla. And I think what you heard from vivid. CEO and others is that literally every door. They've they've knocked out in. The past is now a fresh to order. Go knock on again. Then it'll be interesting to see how much money they put into advertising because you know for sure stock price went up by like eight percent percents When the first public safety shutoff occurred because a lot of people google backup generator and bought a generic? Yes so in the vein of sales jigger. Another thing I think about is all these communities that need to have systems put in to help them whether some of these events and there is money through fema there are grant funds. It's not enough but I think we need to boost those but also give some way for communities to connect with those solutions and service providers because they don't know where to go. And just you know as we talk with. Tim Hate about like where he wants to deploy. These communities have no idea where the resources are for them to go and try to build an end to pay down the cost of financing for getting micro grids. Yeah that's Tim. Hate it. Skill Micro Grid. I you know what I would say. Is I think that again. This is where the COP for anything to show more leadership and be able to disseminate information directly to elected acted officials. But certainly Schneider Electric in some of these really big companies Siemens and others are going to town now directly. I was talking to the governor's office a few weeks ago and this is before the public safety shutoff started and They said well. We're not hearing a lot about micro grids from these towns while more recently when I talk to them they said Yeah they all demanding micro-credits now so I do think that there's been a huge political shaft and I think it would be in the state's State's best interest to educate the elected officials but if they don't step up I think you're GonNa see a lot of these big brand microwave companies like Schneider do it. So where's the best business opportunity unity then is it gonna be a stand in some kind of alternative stand in for natural gas or diesel generators or is it just. It's GONNA be natural gas and diesel generators or is it going to be some kind of community or corporate solution with tying these technologies together in a micro. Well it's all the above. I mean in in general. I'd say that if you're purely just interested in making a million dollars than it's going door to door and you know getting customers to buy solutions that are way too expensive. I think. Think if you're really trying to figure out how to solve this problem systemically then. I think it's a lot of work with mayors and city council members and CCA's the CPA's have been noticeably absent in all of this and it's actually a real Black Mark I think on them around Whether they're actually capable of rising going to the occasion You know when when a lot of these folks have questions I don't know that they're CCA's with the right place to go to get answers and that's a problem Their it should be more pro sumer and should have a stable of solutions providers that they prevented ready to go and said here. The folks that we know are going to negotiate rush are going to give you a fair price or not going to gouge you and are going to provide you good customer service. Yeah and I think Stephen Big box stores grocery stores hospitals are going to step up and put in their own systems and become a much more community oriented but I would very much like to see more community. Solar communities storage be thought of have much more holistically in-intentionally as jigger says let's offer up our free electrons now to close out the show Catherine handed over what you got. Yeah so elections matter as we have said a few times and I've lived in the Commonwealth of Virginia my entire life except when I went to college and I'm super excited because now we have General Assembly that will be aligned with our governor on climate change and clean energy so hopefully flee for will now get get into the regional greenhouse gas initiative. That will be able to actually put teeth onto an executive order that was pinned earlier this year. But maybe even go beyond that so the executive order said thirty percent renewables by twenty thirty while we could probably do better than that we could probably lower greenhouse in house gases by sixty percent by twenty thirty and lower rates hoping to see removal of solar some of the structural barriers. That are in place right now in Virginia removed moved Also the General Assembly is in charge of appointing the State Corporation Commission that governs the utilities. And not only are there too few members on that commission to their only three and we should probably get up to about five but they're also have very little actual jurisdiction over the utilities. So give them some more authority to make really smart decisions Jigger had some good ideas for this he put out on twitter ravine. Cath Paul had some good ideas. There's a lot going on on out there and and really good ideas and I hope we'll finally be able to enact them in. I can get solar on my home. Well for our non American listeners can use remind people UAE y Virginia's local politics flipped and And why that matters historically yes. Oh for about fifty years The Virginia General Assembly has been run by the Republican Party and has been very gerrymandered and amazingly The the state has changed not just the the towns and cities which for the most part been democratic but the the burbs now are becoming much more blew. It flipped both chambers of of the General Assembly. And I think that's going to have implications for a lot of issues not just climate. It'll have implications for gun control and other topics because we'll now be able to uh when they're twenty twenty cents. This is done Probably reverse some of that gerrymandering and make it just a more democratic state with a small D. Yeah No. It's pretty amazing. I I will say though. They'll like the people who got elected as speaker of the house or the ones who didn't sign the no dominion money. Pledge Hey you can only do so much. It is Virginia after all we do call it the Dominion State for a reason jigger. What's your free electron this week so about about ten years ago? I met a guy named David Keith. Who has been spending a lot of time on carbon capture and he his harvard remove? Yeah moved from Calgary Calgary to to Harvard A few years ago and he's just one of the smartest guys I know in this area. He was very anti solar wind for a wilde. But he's come around on. How cost effective we are now? What he's showing is it actually really low cost of variable solar and wind in power you know creating hydrogen Is actually very cost effective to create Chatfield and other fuels and so he's now Proving that you can actually Do that very cost effectively now. That renewable energy is below two who cents kilowatt hour and most places and And he gave a nice twelve minute talk at the Royal Society. So should look David Keith on Youtube. It's a great talk doc. You should indeed. He's got a bunch of great talks really smart guy. Many years back it was two years ago he penned an op Ed for Green Tech Media. Or I think maybe we cross posted said a piece that he had already written for his website at Harvard about why he was reevaluating his skepticism about solar solar and wind. And he's just a very thoughtful guy. my my free electron is about a twitter thread from Danielson Foley. WHO's the head of storage wood? Mackenzie Enzi Power and renewables. And who knows Daniels knows that he is just a man full of puns and joy and he's always got something funny funny to say In the best way possible. He wrote his great twitter. Thread about The Democratic presidential primaries. He's and he took every challenger and made them into an electric generation or generation adjacent technology. And so I'll just give you a few of them. I thought they were quite funny. He Calls Joe Biden. Natural gas been around for decades but finally took off in the late. Audits Look Natural Gas. We appreciate she ate it. We really do. You are a big part of the transition from the old to the new in regretful. But it's clear now that people want to focus on the future Pete Buddha Judge Carbon capture. It's a question of the hot new thing you keep hearing about. Because the media's pushing it so hard seems like a great idea until you look into WHO's funding and why they and then the illusion. Kind of crumbles John Delaney Potato Self explanatory And then let's see who. Let's go to Elizabeth Warren. Where is she Elizabeth Warren Energy Storage Bridge has a plan to solve literally. Everyone of your problems but all you will ever hear is yeah but is it viable or sure but how much will it cost desperately trying hi to explain how much solutions will pay for themselves so it was spotted those that was the best. Some of those were amazing. Although the last one Michael Bloomberg calling Michael Bloomberg coal as we discussed was not spot on. Yeah I think Michael Bloomberg Chevron's smart city technology right promises to collect. Data's of every problem city city faces charging air quality but for now it just prints money using new billboard advertising space on public sidewalks. Oh my God that's good. Oh yes come up with that. I just now three. Yeah that's awesome that would that's let's replace it. And that is where we end things folks folks despite its many flaws we are all on twitter so please send your commentary their disagreements with US quibbles. Back slaps congratulations whatever's on your mind. We we love to hear any thoughts Certainly if you disagree with us just keep it simple. Send this on to a friend or colleague if you think they'd like the show word of mouth is a pre significant driver of audience growth for us so if you have someone in your life for your work life who you think should listen to this show within. Please send it their way as always go to green tech media for all Your Business News on the clean energy transition. It's green tech media dot com slash newsletters. That's where you can sign. Sign up for news in your inbox each morning. And we've got links to other resources from this show that we discussed in our show notes my co-host or Catherine Hamilton. And Jigger Shaw. The show is produced and edited by me Daniel Waldorf we are a CO production of Green Tech Media and postscript audio. Thank you for listening until next. Time

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Trumps Deregulation Push + Michael Moores Bad-Faith Movie

The Energy Gang

1:00:38 hr | 10 months ago

Trumps Deregulation Push + Michael Moores Bad-Faith Movie

"The energy gang is brought to you by Sun. Grow Son Grow is the leading global supplier of converter solutions for renewables. During these uncertain times son grow is committed to protecting its employees and continuing to reliably serve. Its customers around the world. Sandro has leveraged its extensive network across the US distribute face masks to communities in need learn more about son grows work at www dot son grow power dot com from green tech media. This is the energy gang weekly debates and discussions about the fast changing world of energy. Stephen Lacey. I am in Boston a contributing editor at GTM. Welcome to the show this week while the country is distracted by infection rates deaths and protests. What else have we been missing? We peek out from behind the quarantine curtain to see what the trump administration has been up to on the energy front. It's a lot. And it's immensely disruptive then we're going to answer your questions we source nearly two hundred questions from our recent live show and we're going to tackle some of them many of which are really tapped into the news cycle. They include Michael. Moore's bad faith trashing of clean energy one groups attempt to killer net metering nationwide and how the current economic mess is impacting cities. Corporates oil majors with me to answer these questions to co-hosts Jigger Shah is in Bethesda Maryland. He is the president of generate capital. Hello Sir how are You Hello? Hello. How's it going good? You know what it week. Eight of sheltering in place but You know things are looking up. Have we gone back to reflexively saying good or are you really good? I am really good. I have to say my son is found Sort OF PATH. That is you know the new normal for him. He's less Frustrated all the time and so I think things have gotten calmer and better catherine. Are you really good New I mean a different ways and I was like I said I was chill at one point. I'm not as chill. I'm obsessed with food and not with eating food but just with like. Where am I going to get more food for my family? What are we GONNA eat tonight? What are we tomorrow night? What are we gonNA have the next like? That's all I think about is trying to feed my family and I think that's what a lot of people are thinking about right now but that's where I am. I have to say Catherine when I go to the grocery store amazingly all the Morningstar stuff is out. I know everybody's become like Dag on vegetarian. What the heck I know like the vegan stuff is gone but the the beef and the chicken is like right there on the on the shelf so I can picture catherine like elbowing people out of the way for all the the the Fo chicken nuggets and the the tofurkey. Yeah it's like a bad time for enlightenment right now. Y'All Catherine is the chair and CO founder of thirty eight nor solutions. She is there in Arlington Virginia So let's talk about politics and what's going on beyond corona virus right now depending on where you live. The world still feels frozen. Maybe it's thawing depending on your locality here in Massachusetts. It's still pretty froze him but it does continue or in the case of the trump team continues dismantling really key protections on health and the environment. It's no secret that the trump administration's energy agenda is unapologetically all in on fossil fuels and on deregulation. That has been the case from day one but with time running out on the president's current term in the country paralyzed by corona virus. He's pushing it harder than ever before. So we're GONNA talk about the consequences in what's happening right now before that. WanNa turn to something else. That happened this week. The trump administration declared this national emergency over cyber threats to the power grid. Companies are not going to be able to buy transformers and other transmission equipment for many sources. Officially designated as an untrusted source defined as quote where a foreign adversary has an interest and Most of those transformers and other equipment or built in China and presumably this is targeting China. So Catherine what is this Executive Order? And what are the consequences? Yes Oh there's still needs to be a lot of clarification and the Department of Energy is holding some webinars to try to do that. But this all stemmed from a worldwide threat assessment that Dan Coats who is the director of National Intelligence issued January of two thousand and nineteen where they definitely indicated that the grid was one of places of potential threat In national security concerns a couple of issues with this order is that it is very vague. It does not define who foreign adversaries are. It could have implications for anyone who has any sort of critical equipment and we're not one hundred percent sure where the critical equipment is for new or existing projects on the grid so that could be anything greater than or equal to sixty nine caves so substation equipment capacitors control systems metering at that level And so any kind of bulk power system electrical equipment and any generation facilities that are necessary to maintain transmission reliability. So some of the thought is. Where does that put? Energy Storage and our solar and wind projects considered key to reliability. I know that administration has ironically been saying that they aren't reliable But another sort of mystery. Is that any kind of bulk. Power reliability issue is under the jurisdiction of for the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission. But that agency is not actually listed in this executive order as part of the task force to define this Department of Energy is the lead and I is not part of it so it's unclear where that is going to go National Security is not really defined it's risk of sabotage catastrophic effects unacceptable risk so there are some factors but it leaves a lot of the Department of Energy. The effective date is unclear. And all of this is just throwing people into a state of uncertainty so a lot of the tax equity folks who are negotiating contracts for you know grid scale. Solar and wind projects are nervous. Because they don't really know what this means So we definitely need more clarification. Jigger what do you think about the consequences here for renewable energy? Well we have a lot of projects under construction. I mean we've determined that it doesn't really affect solar and wind equipment. It may affect that transformers. But you know I have to say that. It's it's just another step in the trump administration just acting first and thinking later. And it's just in this situation. This is so big and so disruptive that you would have thought that they would have actually like checked with people. I and said Hey. How's this going to affect folks? You know we all care about security so my senses. It's probably going to get rolled back in some way. And then you know tightened up and loosened. It's also like thinking a lead to people just being super anti-trump in our industry. Our industry is famous for being pretty diverse in terms of our political backgrounds. And I think a lot of folks who are pro pro-trump we're going to be like. Hey man you just affected our business. Why is this happening now? I mean we've known about threats to the power grid for a long time mostly from Russia potentially Iran and potentially China I it's. It's a wonder why this is occurring at this moment. Does anyone have any sense? So idle trump is to get us I think that he has hired people who are out to get environmental regulations China. And so what happens is that you have a confluence of events right. So like for instance. When the solar tariffs were issued by the trump administration. It just happened to be on his desk when he was trying to. Put tariffs on China and that was in front of him long with washing machines. In this case I think the same thing's true right. He's figuring out how to lash out on China in in this corona virus time and this happens to be a place where you know. We actually import a lot of equipment from China and so it just happened to be right place right time. But I don't think he added out for you know I don't think he cares deeply about electricity bulk. You know security and affects a lot more than just the renewable energy industry. I also think there's the case of we're in a time when I think that the president feels a lack of control over what's happening and certainly we don't have a lot of control over corona virus we can react to it but it's it's difficult right now to have control and there's certain things you can't have control over in a lot of that is executive action and so there's probably been moved to look. Let's continue doing our executive actions a pace and a lot of those have to do tariffs are going to put tariffs on transformers. They're gonNA continue their official solar panels. There's a lot going on on the executive side that he can continue to work on where he does feel like. He's in control about what he is controlling right now on the deregulation front. The list of regulations that the administration is dismantling right now is very long dozens and dozens of regulations. Here are some of the top ones will first of all in the corona virus crisis actually hit the EPA put a wholesale stopped to environmental regulations and one former enforcement officials said. It is so far beyond any reasonable response. I am totally stunned. They finalize rules that would gut Obama era efficiency standards for cars and trucks. A rule created with math. That was so bad that eleven economist wrote analysis in the Journal. Science saying that the fundamental flaws and inconsistencies is at odds with Basic Economic Theory and Empirical Studies EPA head Inter Wheeler said. The agency would not increase standards on particulate matter known as pm two point five against the recommendation of staff scientists and research showing more than fifty thousand people. A year are dying from current particulate matter standards. It also comes at this moment in time when new research from Harvard is showing that particulate matter is causing higher corona virus death rates which is a partial explanation for why. African Americans are dying at much higher rates from the virus. Meanwhile the EPA is moving ahead with rollbacks across the board even without the ability to hold in person comments sections. So it's denying requests to delay until normal commenting can happen but it's also simultaneously arguing in court that it needs extensions for crafting legal arguments because of the corona virus. So Catherine A lot of work here parsing through all of this. What's what's happening here. Is this the trump team using corona virus as a distraction or? Is this just a normal push at the end of a presidential term to get as much done as possible? Well this is actually been going on. Since he was elected so from the time he was elected until two months after he was sworn in when he issued an executive order basically targeted ninety eight. Different rules. That's this is all that we're going to take down and it's really been the first administration that's been one hundred percent dedicated to rollback. There is no positive agenda for regulation I reached out to John. Walk at the natural resources. Defense Council and he follows all of these things and he said we should see this in sort of three stages the first stage and remember the transition team before trump was sworn in. They brought that list of stuff they wanted to get done. And all these rollbacks round the list for corporations so the stage one was the first one one and a half years of the presidency and there is a frenzy to block in reverse as many Obama actions as soon as they could and they were really bad at it. They did a lot of administrative law missteps they. They didn't analyze cases. Right they lost. They failed repeatedly in court so they wasted a whole bunch of time. Doing things really badly. Then the next stage was two or three years in They did start doing sort of the worker beef as which was notice and comment for rulemakings making a longer process very much. More time consuming. That was when the clean water the clean power plan the cafe standards. All of those were kind of in that phase now starting in about two thousand nineteen we get to stage three when all of these kind of go into effect so the the water rule in the cafe the methane is going to be imminent and the issue now is that there are lawsuits in every single one of these cases from NRDC and others and since there are lawsuits most of those will be confronted in court after this administration potentially is over so certainly into twenty twenty one so it could be if we had a new administration come in the administration would simply not defend all these new rulemaking the administration has put forward so those would just wither and go away but of course if the president gets another term those will be fought out in court and I would just say one more remark was that the Hubris of the political attorneys at EPA is such that when the staff level comes and says. You don't have the record to do this. You don't have a legal standard that we can defend. They just say we have five votes in the Supreme Court. And that's all we need. So that will tell you why. Mcconnell right now is just confirming judges all up and down to make sure that the courts will be on their side as these go forward with lawsuits so jigger the New York Times I think documented thirty six regulations that are currently being stripped down. At the moment I listed some of the the big ones of what to you stands out as the most consequential impactful on people's lives are on the industry. Well I'd say that the one that I care the most about our The Clean Water Act rollbacks for the Great Lakes Region. I mean having grown up Near the Great Lakes and knowing a lot of those companies and people I mean I do think that what I'm generally full four and I think I've said this in the podcast for many years is that this can't be duped out by lawyers and you know folks just in Washington. There has to be real angst in anger at the local level rate like these steel companies are are putting in cyanide ammonia etc into the Great Lakes. Right these are. There are literally generations of people who use the Great Lakes for pleasure for for all sorts of things and they have to care right. They have to care that. They're officials are allowing these corporations to put pollution into the lakes and not get right. None of these companies. Us Steel Arcelormittal. None of them have gotten find for any of their violations which they normally would have so. My hope is not unlike you know the climate change response that we've seen out of mayors and state is at the general population will start to realize how important these rules really are and start to speak up around how they want to protect their local spaces and I think corporations are going to potentially do the same. The ones that want to do the right thing Or even on track to try to make a transition into future that they're gonNA make more money on so in the cafe standards for example. The Obama rule was five percent increase in efficiency every year. Now it's only at one and a half percent but the automakers are saying like without regulation we're GonNa do to two and a half percent better anyway. Without regulation and regulation does a few things. One as jigger highlighted is it protects the public it data clearly show. That regulation is good for the economy and the benefits far exceed the costs of any of those regulations. But the other thing that it does is it spurs innovation. We work with a lot of innovative companies. That have come up with solutions. That would really be helpful. If you do have regulation for methane P fast types of really really harmful. Toxins out there that are hurting the environment and hurting human beings and those innovators are also finding themselves. Wait a second we're US companies trying to innovate. This could help economic growth in addition to helping populations the other thing it does to Catherine's point is basically that it levels the playing field so that the companies who want to be good actors are not put at a disadvantage to the companies are dumping chemicals and doing things that cost less money and And think there are many corporate actors who won a level playing field. So Catherine I WANNA go back to the legal arguments here. What have you heard about how this will hold up in court? What we've seen is reporting from the New York Times and others showing that staffers within the EPA are slipping language in that could potentially sabotage these rules. We've also seen that. The trump administration is basically just changing the math. And you have a lot of experts speaking up saying this just does not hold up. So what are the consequences when this actually gets into the courts? What are you hearing yet so and just so that? Everybody knows. I'm not an attorney. I only talked to her attorney when I need to Yeah I don't I can't speak to what the career staffer doing the career staffer definitely trying to do their work and trying to do good analysis and build it on know legal standards and the political attorneys will just take that and do whatever they want to do it so it would not surprise me at all. I would say twelve days before. The cafe regulation was issued the opposite management budget said there's lack of legal justification for this and so even internally there is a recognition that there is not legal standing. I think part of the issue is they just. They WanNa get this stuff done. They want to shove it through. They WanNa tell their supporters that look at all the stuff we've done and then they'll worry about it in the next term or not worry about it when the next administration comes in the one thing I would say is. I do think that we've covered this before on the podcast. Which is that. Trump came in with the explicit mandate to rollback Things of and this is a continuation of what was in Ronald Reagan's policy platform for president. Right and it's what George W. Bush did to this rate the clean water act so that fracking could occur unabated right and so I think for whatever reason we feel like this is just unprecedented but it's not unprecedented it's designed it just happens to be that this president's Desire to just trample over. The judiciary is the part that I think sets him apart right but this is exactly what they've been trying to do for years right when Christie Todd Whitman said well we should be more reasonable at EPA. She got removed by the George W Bush administration within a month then replaced by somebody. Who would actually like this rate mining regulations etc more quickly. So I don't think this is unprecedented. It just happens to be that. They're more effective well but John Walk. Did say this was the first time he'd seen one hundred percent roll back he he thought at least during Bush it was like maybe seventy percent so this has been solely dedicated right. I mean it was still bad with. This has been in every single agency so department of Interior like the Migratory Bird Treaty Act there refusing to extend public comment periods. And they're just going forward with that they're going forward with oil and gas drilling leases actions on time so interior is doing this. Every single agency is singularly focused on making sure they take down remove as much as they can for corporations to continue to do what they want to do. I think like in most things with trump. Right it's really more about the response from the states and the population right. I think that if this rollback at EPA Spurs people to Action in ways that that are unprecedented in terms of population. Engagement for instance. Now the California's not bound by the Obama compromise on cafe. They actually can make their rules more strict which they've already done on electric vehicle mandates as part of their their rules and their seven or eight other states that can copy. California and and promote more electric vehicles so in the end you could see an acceleration to electric vehicles because of the trump rule. And I think that's true. The country where local jurisdictions can actually impose their own dates around pollution control etc around these steel mills and others right because they absolutely have to have local permits to be able to operate as well and they may not get those local permits. If there's enough anger in the local community well legal minutia aside this is clearly one of the most consequential impacts of the upcoming election. Let's take a quick break here to talk about our sponsor son grow when sun grow realized the severity of the in nineteen outbreak. He put together a Task Force to facilitate quick decision making in the face of uncertainty Sandro. Prioritize the safety of its employees by investing in measures to protect its factory workers from infection. The company is collaborating closely with suppliers and customers to ensure that it can continue to deliver invert or solution safely and on schedule to project developers around the world as a leading supplier of solar and voters in the US. Sandro has leveraged its logistics network across the country to distribute facemasks to communities in need and keep the solar market rowing. You can learn more about son. Grow at Sun grow power dot com. All right we're going to spend the rest of the show talking about listener questions and surprise surprise. Our audience was brimming with some really smart questions. We've got a spreadsheet full of your queries that came in during our live taping last month. A bunch of you were there so thanks for being there with us and we have been sorting through all of your questions We had to listener questions on this shadowy move for federal control of net metering and we also got some questions about Michael. Moore's new film and about what we're reading and consuming during the pandemic plus stuff on how the current crisis impacts corporates and states in cities. So let's see what we can get to here. Let's turn first to Michael. Moore's new film which everyone is talking about. It is called planet of the humans and it is directed by Jeff Gibbs and produced by Michael Moore and it is a look at the environmental movement and it is a very cynical look at the environmental movement. Basically arguing that we do not have the solutions to address climate change and that the only way to think about climate changes deindustrialization and reducing the population and all the solutions that you know all the environmental groups and business leaders are trying to sell. You ARE NOT WORKING. And we were toying with whether or not to cover this and then we started getting messages from folks including this one from a listener named rob and he says. I just finished watching Michael. Moore's planet of the humans and came away from the film deeply disturbed and unclear what to think. I'm a huge fan of the energy. Gang would love to hear your perspective on the documentary. I'm currently an MBA candidate and had been planning to pivot into clean tech post graduation. I'm left questioning whether a career in solar development for instance is something that would really leave any positive impact. Appreciate any context or clarity that you can help to provide. This film. Has six point. Five million views on YouTube Leading environmental folks are getting attacked on social media and getting you know a lot of hateful. E mails so this is having real world consequences Catherine. Why don't we just start with what this film tries to do? What is it arguing and How much of your time did you spend watching it off That's what my reaction is off. So I watched with my husband He was the lobbyists on the beyond coal campaign so he had a lot of reactions in real time as we watched it. I mean my I when I was watching it. My my gut reaction was this really old stuff like the tape. The b-roll was really old. It was from stuff that had been done a long time ago. The people they interviewed were with projects that were very outdated and yet there were no dates that were listed on the screen. He didn't really know when it was. I also felt like it was. Somebody had a bone to pick. It wasn't really like Oh this is anti renewables like you said it was more about anti industrialization anti electricity. I don't think Michael Moore wants to turn electrcity for everybody in Flint Michigan. But you know that's it made it look like there's really good solution so. I was very unclear about the purpose of this movie. There wasn't a call to action. There were no solutions that were offered. It was just. I could not figure out what they wanted to do. Other than to yell about it. Jigger what was this film trying to do? In your opinion yeah. I think that it was really. You know some form of primal scream right where. Who's during a screaming? Well clearly jeff. Gibbs is doing the screaming I think in this particular one although I think he was behind the camera for Michael. Moore's other movies but I think he just couldn't get his thoughts together so he was just railing against everybody like he didn't really put a coherent narrative around the environmental movement. Which you know. I don't have a lot of love for many of the folks on the Environmental Movement. I think they've gotten to legal. I think they've lost their way in terms of organizing local people and killing projects locally in favor of trying to kill projects to repeal a. He hasn't he didn't really have a coherent Argument AGAINST SOLAR AND WIND And the ones that he did have were just so they weren't even out of date. They were actually just plain wrong in ways that were just laughable. I mean just a simple google search with the National Renewable Energy Laboratory would have solved that problem the one coherent argument that I think he tried to make which I generally agree with is that we shouldn't be cutting down virgin trees for biomass production Which I get but I think the big thing he's saying is that we're just not on track to solving this problem. We're not on track to replacing the fossil fuel industry and it's not a dissimilar argument although poorly made By Jeff Gibbs to what Naomi Klein has been saying in her books around the fact that we need a new form of capitalism that we need a new structure altogether right. I don't think Jeff gives makes a coherent in this film. I almost feel bad for him because I just think that I think he kind of. Maybe thought he knew what he was going to say but then he couldn't actually say it right well that that's that's the difference here. He was a poorly executed film so full of misinformation but his starting point is not dissimilar from Naomi Klein or bill mckibben or Josh Fox. Three of three environmental leaders who have come out strongly against this film bill. Mckibben himself was attacked in the film. And we can get into that But all of them has had. This is a bad faith attempt at addressing the issue but everyone agrees that we still have a lot more to do 'em you know. We can't sort of plug in play into the existing economy and expect to solve climate. Change with this film does is start to systematically attack the renewables industry by using data from like two thousand eight to two thousand ten about greed integration about efficiency about the lifetime of renewable energy products about the fossil fuels. It takes to make these products and what you see. Is that all of the data and there's just been some extraordinarily good Debunking of this is from a completely different era and They made no attempt to reach out to the leading experts who are at the forefront of deploying and monitoring analyzing this stuff and so it's it's a truly awful piece of journalism there's no journalism here it truly is just a bad faith attempt at telling a story but like many people who come after the clean energy industry. Which you know we've had to deal with over time. I don't think the debunking is what it is that we need to be doing. I appreciate it all the effort that people put into debunking but the question is why do people feel compelled to write things like this and to produce things like this when it's clearly wrong and they know it's wrong at the time at which they do it so. I don't think that these guys are such idiots that they don't know how to use Google so the real question is why would they even do it. Why would they put their name on it? Why would they associate themselves with it and you know and in the people who are commenting that you guys are right and all this other stuff. My sense is that they really truly feel at a loss around what they can do to solve climate change and they don't think that the rest of us have actually plotted out a clear plan that they can follow and get behind. They didn't suggest anything like energy efficiency or they haven't they didn't go back and try to figure out. Well you know. Maybe you know that low amount when project. Yeah there were people who objected to it but if you interview people now reached out to a bunch of folks in Vermont they said Look Lowell has been profiting from that wind. Plant being there people like it. I mean there have always been some people that don't like Ridge line wind and there's there there's a reason for that. But what are the benefits? What what are the projects doing now? And it's Kinda like you can say the stuff didn't work ten years ago as well as it does now but at least update and show what good is coming out of it. Now you know. They've throw they threw a bunch of stuff that just wasn't true and a lot of numbers that were wrong They made scary music with all of these. Just throwing out a bunch of names of chemicals and elements and showing extraction without any context of like what is going on now and whether or not you're frustrated look at least get it right and set it so that you have a baseline for this is why I'm scared. I'm still scared. We all should be scared about climate change but at least get your facts rate. Yeah I mean this was not take that brought in respected energy experts. On what how? The energy system is evolving. So let's just finish by bringing this back to Rob Look Rob. I love the fact that you are an MBA. You're thinking about getting into this industry. And I appreciate the fact that you watch this and came away with questions and I will just tell you that if you look at what every major energy expert is saying the information is outdated and if not outright false listen to the scientists rob. They'll get it right so please walk away knowing that getting into this industry truly will make a difference. I thought Josh Fox is Takedown was quite humorous. He said releasing this on the eve of Birthdays. Fiftieth anniversary is like Bernie Sanders. Endorsing Donald Trump will chugging hydrochloric or clorox. His whole. His whole take was amazing. By the way on the fact those all white people all right. So let's go to the next question. The New England Ratepayers Association has a petition in two Firkh to try to change the rules around net metering and we had a couple folks who asked us what this will mean how. This might move forward. So Catherine what is this? What is this petition asking? And what could be the impact on one of the most crucial policy supports for solar? Yeah y'all need to be worried you really do. I talk to Tyson Slocum from public citizen. Who has spent a lot of time trying to figure out. Who Nira is and they claim to be a ratepayer group. They have mostly been focused in New Hampshire and there is some evidence that the Sununu family is behind it. A Mark Brown who is run a bunch of Co Groups in the past has been sort of their executive director But the contributions are still not disclosed because of their tax status. It's a five. Oh One C. Four and you do not have to disclose who contributes in that case. So it's been really hard to to get a handle on that. They haven't traditionally been nationally focused but they lost a net metering battle New Hampshire so they decided they would just go for it and they would file a petition for declaratory order before. Firkh now to file one of these petitions. It costs for charges. You eight thirty thousand dollars filing fee and you know with all of their attorney fees as well this is costing them a pretty penny to do so somebody is paying for this And they've made some really bad legal arguments again. I'm not a lawyer. But Reading Ari Pasco's rants on twitter have been really illuminating. Read the petition. And it really basically says anything that is put onto the utility grid in the form of an electron whether it's like a residential home or a corporation Is then eventually going to make. Its way into book power and Wholesale Power Market and it should be treated as such and forecast jurisdiction. So what could happen? Is that an his already. Denied the state's narrow talk had asked for an extension so they could get all the states together because lots and lots of states have net metering To try to come up with some good arguments and they ask for a ninety day extension and I said Nope. You've got thirty days to respond so that in and of itself along with some of the other decisions because made recently Make me worry that they could Try to grab this jurisdiction from the states. I hope that's not the case but I think states Muniz cops are going to really need to make strong arguments And build the record so that for doesn't doesn't rule in nearest favor. Jigger what do you think the argument here from the New England Repairs Association? Well the arguments terrible obviously but I think that the politics of it is that the legal case is extraordinarily weak rate. I mean this is basically getting a lot of the work that Pat Woods had done when he was. You know the for chair under under George W Bush and so like I in general. I can't imagine this actually you know surviving a legal challenge but everyone. I've talked to from Sun to see it. Others are taking this very seriously in are pulling out the stops to make sure that you know everyone from NRA ACA too narrow to others you know can get their comments in and weigh in so you know my son says we should take it seriously but that This really is a weak argument. Yeah one of the things that public citizen is doing is. They're trying to get the Massachusetts Attorney General who has intervened the preceding because Nero was set up an incorporated in Boston to try to do an investigation. And call the entire organization into question. So broaden the fight a little bit more and have attorney. General's way on I think that would be helpful and I just. I'm very worried that given some of the first decisions recently that also were not necessarily based on sound legal argument or argument that you would typically see based on precedent and based on building the record that I worry that something bad could come up this so jigger. Let's like think. Through the implementation of this policy if ever into fruition. What would it mean for compensation for solar systems presumably? It would be like what you have for. Utility scale systems now under purpose. Which is that you get paid for. The avoided cost of building in equivalent. Fossil fuel power plant. How would you apply that to rooftop solar and would you actually have to install new kinds of meters to account for that? No I think what would be more likely as people would go off grid Allah Rocky Mountain Institute right that ultimately that if if you basically told customers who have spent their hard earned money or signed up to a loan that they should F- off they will probably do exactly the same to their utility and they'll tell them to f. off right like I don't. I don't think this ends well right. You're talking about like over a million one point. Five million people who have residential solar and you're and expanding every day right last year was a record year with two point. Gigawatts of residential solar deployed m the asset backed securities market is thriving and well. So now you're basically pissing off all of Wall Street. You're pissing off all the big four accounting firms you pick pissing off the law firms in the mental your pissing off the entire establishment because like some shady group. You know that's associated with this new news in the northeast actually hate renewable energy. I like my sense is that this ends really badly for ERC that if they overstep this way you would basically see riots. Well what what is that Accountability Mechanism Catherine? If there was anger they would just burn it down. I don't know what it is like. No no but I don't think you understand what happens in Idaho when the Public Service Commission said we are going to retroactively takeaway net metering. You had all hundred and fifteen people that had net metering who were generally old people come in and actually protest the Public Service Commission. They were so afraid of these. These old people that the public service commissioners were actually crying on the Diet and when you read their actual order. They were embarrassed. Idaho power was actually even asking for this right like this is how personal gets. I think for whatever reason we're all inoculated with our high-salaried incomes and whatever else for most people who have solar systems they have an average income of fifty two thousand dollars a year right. You're not talking about wealthy. People that have solar systems. They're doing this to save money for their families so they can actually save money for other purposes and when the furka actually gets in between them and their ability to use electricity. Right people get emotional. Yeah and honestly states would not want for even even states that don't have net metering or don't like net metering those regulatory commission still don't want to assert jurisdiction on the distribution side. They just doubt I mean it's it's something that is sacred to states and I think that in and of itself is going to you know it's going to prevent bad things from happening in the end. You have conservative talk. Radio hosts in Georgia. They're basically like you won't take away my guns or my solar system to Georgia power like I honestly think that people like sanitize this stuff if you decided to up end the economic partnership that has been in place for twenty years people would just go stark raving mad. I'm just saying put yourself in a situation where your utility company comes to you and says instead saving twelve dollars a month based on net metering. You now have to pay us. You know something on the order of like forty bucks a month privilege and we are going to basically damage and penalize your relationship with your with Wall Street with Sun. Run with all the players that you thought you had a good faith agreement with right right you would just be like what the hell is going on around here. I think and most of these people are Republicans. It's not like Democrats are the ones putting in the solar. They're the ones talking about solar on twitter but it's the Republicans that are doing the good faith analysis saying I actually want to save money on my electricity bill. We have a couple of other questions from listeners. About what locality should do to promote clean energy and response to Corona Virus Post Corona Virus Economic Development So one listener says with anticipated low interest rates what should cities local governments and others do to spur clean energy and resiliency in the region. Another ask what would state commissions due to make their priority Enablement of of Climate-friendly recovery's so Jigger any thoughts on what the best course of action here is given low interest rates at the moment. Well I think there's a couple step process here I think. Initially there are many many many jurisdictions you know over a thousand who have existing relationships with energy energy service companies including US. And so we are accelerating deployments in places where construction still essential services. We'RE ACCELERATING ENERGY EFFICIENCY. Rick celebrating solar deployment on particularly on schools and on city buildings Because a lot of empty and so you actually have a better ability. So New York City in Tampa Bay Florida and Cincinnati in places where we have contracts were accelerating and I don't think a lot of other folks are too and so. That's what's happening during cove Ed. Are They Post Cove it? I think you're GONNA see a tremendous push to use the low cost of capital. That's available to get rid of deferred maintenance right. There's billions and billions and billions of dollars of deferred maintenance right old Hvac systems that need upgrading. Old Windows figuring out energy management systems. And so I think you will see a tremendous amount of work done there primarily because the ecosystems in place so they already have partnerships with us. Goes they already know trane and carrier? They actually know what they have to do. They just couldn't get around to it but given that they're going to have twenty percent unemployment rates probably for good eighteen to twenty months They're like you know they're saying. Hey how do we put people back to work? And so I think you're GONNA see a lot of stuff. They're the part that I'm working. The most on right now is on waste. Because I do think that we're really far behind on waste right now and there's a lot of solutions it's just that the ecosystem is not mature and so a lot of these mayors and county. Commissioners are hearing the pitches for the first time was for energy efficiency nobles. They've heard it for the twentieth time. Waste meaning like anaerobic digestion or waste management garbage race management just garbage like for instance like San Francisco is collecting all your recyclables and throwing it directly in the landfill. Because China was won't take them anymore. So there's all these new technologies actually not so new where you can turn the recyclables back into plastic pellets for Peon proctor and gamble to us and all these other things but none of that infrastructure has been built out and so you know folks are sorting but like nothing is happening on the recycling side because the infrastructure is not in place to turn it back into the circular economy plasma waste recycling. That was my top twenty eighteen. Pick for the decarbonisation and nobody believed me. But I hear it's coming it's coming. I don't know if that's Pacific. What is coming but I do think that he could becoming so a little aside here jigger. We had another listener this week. Reach out via twitter and ask about the new Ash Ray guidelines for servicing and inspecting H HVAC systems in commercial buildings because of Corona virus and. I wonder if you have all these. You know buildings that now need to inspect service or replace H VAC systems. Does that a cause problems for service agreements and boy does it. Present a workforce opportunity where you suddenly have all this new activity and You know the HVAC efficiencies sector. Yeah the other thing though is member. Epa Its faults is enforcing leaks from from refrigerants out of HVAC system so they assessed huge fines on all the and many other grocery store chains and so a lot of these HVAC systems are genuinely leaking refrigerant and they haven't been inspected regularly enough to figure out what to do about it and so so one. I think the inspections will increase because people don't WanNa get fined and too. I think you're GONNA see a lot of movement towards green refrigerants because that's the only way to really just solve your exposure to these fines so back to this local front catherine this other listener asked about state commissions. How do they make it their priority to enable a climate-friendly recovery? How did they you know? Balance Low electricity rates against job creation in like micro grid solar plus storage new pilots so any thoughts on state commissions in particular. Yeah so the good news is distributed. Energy resources are cheaper than building natural gas plants. And they're more resilient so I think they have good arguments in in those cases A couple of things I was thinking of. Is You know they need better modeling tools to really understand the full costs and benefits of all of these technologies because a lot of the modeling tools are really outdated and the modeling tools answered. Every question is build a new natural gas plant. So part of this is getting new tools in place having a stakeholder processes which has been a little tough because of the boom bombing issue so wanting to get more people involved right now is tricky but they should continue to do that I think it would be good for commissions similar to what they did during the recovery. Act Back to back in two thousand nine. They got in the smart grid. Pergram fifty percent cost share for utilities to install smart technologies of all kinds. Will they could do that. With a whole host of other distributed energy technologies and microbes. That would keep the rate recovery at fifty percent because the federal government would be sharing it so I think that's one thing that they could do is really push for in a stimulus to have some cost share programs like that so utility costs are lowered and that lowers the impact on customers. And then I also look Another another Question came in about Hawaii and I reached out to the chair of the commission and he was terrific about getting back to me and they're continuing their performance base rates dock at a pace and not only are they looking at. How is it impacting Hawaii and the consumers in Hawaii and they should have a final decision in order in December of this year? But they're already sharing that information with other commissions other public utility commissions in staff elsewhere. Because other states are looking at you know. How do we do this? How do we ensure that the utility is performing in a way that helps all customers and part of the benefit is in reduce greenhouse gas emissions are reduced climate impact? So those are just a few thoughts. I had so getting to the root of both of these questions which is will localities and state commissions actually promote more clean solutions through and beyond this crisis. It seems like there's an optimistic answer to that question. Well I think jigger and I are generally optimistic about the fact that we do have solutions. And they're cheaper and better for everybody and hopefully people have the sense to implement them. Well are you so what I'd say? Is that remember? We already had most of the stuff in motion before. And what happened with the reduction? `electricity demand is that renewable energy were must run plants and the coal plants have actually had to accommodate renewable energy and their costs have not gone down in fact their costs have gone up and so in fact people are accelerating the destruction of coal plants. And they're tr- and a lot of these other Cases around weatherization and figuring out. How do we do equity issues and all those other? The things are still moving apace right. There's still a lot of great you know research that's been done in dockets that have been opened in hearings that have been done all that stuff and so. I I don't I don't see that moving in any direction than the the direction we were already moving into and I do think it'll accelerate just because I think people people are starting to realize this. I don't think they're quite gun their heads around it. There are a lot of people are optimists who think that. Cova just going to go away. We're GONNA have you shape recovery and everyone's going to be fine by July. I don't think that the vast majority of people who've really studied this believe that anymore and as a greater majority start to recognize. This is going to be a long drawn out recovery. They're going to start looking for areas where there are people who are already trained people who already presented the evidence so good decision making can occur and those are largely in our areas so the last question was on corporate climate commitments and at the beginning of this year we had. I don't know three or four shows in a row where some of the country are. The world's largest companies were making these big sweeping commitments to reducing their emissions with the emissions of their products or developing a ton of renewable energy. And all of a sudden that momentum felt like it stopped or at least we weren't paying attention to it so this lesson listener asked how we'll Cova nineteen impact some of those twenty twenty commitments. Because it seems to have struck at the worst possible time. Now I've been thinking about this question because the other day I had a really long conversation with Niha Palmer who runs energy strategy at Google and basically like they're all systems go right. I mean they're dealing with Changes in electricity demand and pricing and markets. But like they have a clear goal. They WanNa get twenty four seven renewable energy that means actually matching the performance of data centers. You know consumer usage with electricity production that means investing a lot more storage figuring out what comes next technologically to meet that goal. And like they're all in so. I think the bigger corporations like a lot of the big tech firms and large industrial companies that have similar targets. They're still trucking ahead with this. What we saw in terms of renewable energy commitments was almost two gigawatts of deals in the first quarter of this year. Now that will probably slow way down of course but still like the first part of this year was pretty strong in terms of activity. We saw the CEO's of Shell and BP on investor calls both say basically that they're clean energy units are gonna be untouched for now and the question for me is what about the mushy middle. What happens to these mid sized companies in terms of capital deployment and restructuring targets? And I'd love to hear your thoughts on that Jigger. So many of the folks who've made these commitments are clients of ours in the sense that we own assets at their facilities Or we collect their food waste or things and so we talked to them pretty regularly and I think nick has You know comments resonate with most of his players. But I'll give you one anecdote. There's a very large food company that has not done a lot but has made big commitments and The energy manager was ready to sign a deal to like developers go in and evaluate other rooftops to put solar on them energy efficiency and the general counsel basically just just toward torn apart. Said we shouldn't be agreeing any of this stuff. I don't know why we're doing it. And the CEO is like shut your mouth. We are going to sign this thing and we are going to get renewable energy on our roof and I just I had. I had to mute the phone. 'cause I was just like laughing out loud and so I think it's one anecdote but I do think that people recognize one that there's a lot of things that they can do that actually save money and so it's really no regrets and that they really should be doing all the no regrets stuff While you know they can I think too is that they recognize that there will ever literally never be a better moment than now to get this stuff done. We have more labor available. We have more You know like sort of just resources available to give these people attention and then I think three it really sets them up For the different rounds of stimulus more. The thing that people don't really recognize I think well is that the way that the main street lending program and other programs work through Treasury is you actually have to have Some of these initiatives already moving right these are not like dealey. Loan guarantee programs where you can say. We're thinking about doing sustainability therefore. Give us debt to like do it. It's more like we've already done it. We've incurred this debt at seven percent interest. We'd like to borrow money from the Fed at three percent to refinance stuff out. That's how this works. And so in the game you actually have to put stuff on your roof and then you can refinance it down with lower interest rates and so like so. It doesn't make sense for you to wait to do these things. Yeah and I would just say. From a global perspective. There are groups of corporates Research Organizations and E YOU LEADERS. Certainly that are really calling for a big green public investment for. Future Ready Economy. They call it and they they really believe that. You can continue all these sustainability initiatives without leaving people behind being very inclusive and growing the economy. And they think now is as important time as any well like. I said we had almost two hundred questions in real time during our live. Show we lumped a bunch here together. That felt relevant to the news cycle. We're going to sift through others and we are going to have a couple. More live shows coming up where you can watch us from. Our homes will have the episode posted. And so you'll have the opportunity to submit more questions and we really appreciate your interactively with us. So let's end the show on a free electron with one last listener question which was about recommendations for books movies reports on climate and energy that Someone was some free time in quarantine should read first of all free time free time. What does that mean? But it's a great question. So Catherine what are you reading or consuming or watching? That is not from Michael Moore. Yeah I was GonNa say putting aside the one hundred agonizing minutes of that movie I've been spending a lot of time on free. Webinars there's a lot out there Some of them are really helpful. Some of them are thought provoking. I just attended one at the end of last week. The energy stored grand challenge Department of Energy is doing kind of this very much connecting the dots of all their energy storage programs throughout the department and trying to to be very pragmatic about developing research and development. That really does attack certain use cases and becomes relevant to deployment So I was impressed with that folks can go onto the website and look at the energy storage grand challenge of a bunch more webinars coming up and I think you can ask questions on those women are so I think. They're very informative and then a podcast. I do not have as much time as I did Listen to listen to podcasts. Just because I'm not commuting all the time so I found a short one which I really like. It's called redefining energy. And it's Gerard read and Laura Alan who have discussions they interview people and it's from more of a global perspective so that's been helpful to know tiger king only doe webinars. Oh there's a lot of other trash. I'm watching I just didn't mention sugar. What is taking up your time so outside of the last dance which you know. Everyone's guilty pleasure these days Which is the Bulls Ninety eight series Season you know I have been listening to the Mike Climate Journey podcast from Jason Jacobs. It's really extraordinary. He gets in the most amazing people on his podcast. Done one hundred and three episodes in a year. He's launched this on. May seventh two thousand nineteen exactly a year ago and his one hundred and three episodes and and everything from Ken. Caldera at Monolith materials to others. And it's really just wonderful. And he's brought an entirely new group of people from the tech community into climate Which is just fascinating to watch. And so I recommend everyone listened to the podcast series we have shale Khan and I have a good interview with him on the interchange where we talked a little bit more explicitly about his personal journey from tech founder yen to climate Champion or someone. Who is talking to climate champions and he really has brought a new kind of community into this space so You to both only listen to energy and climate podcast during this thing like I literally have no time to listening podcasts. I mean the only time I listen to. Podcasts was on an airplane and and I'm not in an airplane anymore so at every chance I get you know by my son is taking up so I Either I don't think I'm consuming as much content as I used to know. My favorite one is staying with emily and Kumail mean that is my favorite quarantine podcast. It's awesome. I'm only listening to audio. I don't read anything anymore. I listen to audio books time so I walked the dog. I washed the dishes any time. I can free up if I'm working out or something I'm just listening to something And the show that has caught my attention that is actually very relevant to our conversation about Michael Moore is this podcast called rabbit hole from the New York Times and the near Times. Audio team is so good. They've pulled a lot of people in from the public radio world and from specifically radio lab. So they there's this radio labs that to the documentary style reporting that they do which obviously We hear every day in the daily podcast but this new show rabbit hole. is hosted and reported by New York Times writer. Kevin Roose in it's produced by Andy Mills a former Radio Person It's about this Youtuber named Caleb Kane who gets sucked in to the extreme world of Youtube misinformation and he starts at this very innocent place and gets to a very dark place and they ended up uncovering his entire watch history and used that as the basis of the episode to think through. Like how you go from a pretty innocent place into a place of very extreme views and it's so well produced the sound design is The Best I've heard and since we're talking about the impact of someone like Michael Moore who posted his film on Youtube and point. Five million hits in his angering. A lot of people are causing confusion in the environmental movement. It is a reason why that stuff matters. It will show you that that the the misinformation out there truly has an impact on people's lives. I WANNA subscriber away. That sounds super interesting. Are you sure you're not going to be too busy on Webinar? Well thanks everyone for devoting your time to another episode of our show here. We appreciate the support and I. I'm still continually blown away that our numbers are looking really good. We've seen an industry-wide twenty percent dip in podcast listening but our numbers are staying strong. So y'all are listening and thank you. You can give us a rating and review on Apple podcast or Stitcher if you want to support the show you can also send us an email at postscript audio at Gmail dot com or just hit us up on twitter with any show ideas or listener feedback. We want to hear what you thought about the Michael Moore movie as well. You know the more dialogue about that in the public sphere. The better to really help people think through it and Catherine Hamilton shower my co host. Thanks to them. Ingrid Low bet is our senior editor. We are a CO production of postscript audio and Green Tech Media. We will of course catch you next week. This is the energy gang. I'm Stephen Lacey. Talk to you soon.

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Who is Nancy Pelosi?

Stuff Mom Never Told You

41:39 min | Last month

Who is Nancy Pelosi?

"At carmax we're pretty flexible with how you can buy a car. If you'd rather scroll through fifty thousand cars instead of walking the lot go for if you want to see how a car smells on the law before you buy it by all means we all have our things want the whole thing to come to you without ever leaving home by online. Compare how the speaker sound when playing your favourite mixed. Visit our lot if you wanna browse a little on the lot and in select markets never delivered at home. We're certainly not stopping. You carmax the way it should be. When american explorer robert period claim to be the first man to reach. The north pole is alleged. Triumph topped off centuries long race to the top of the world. I'm cat long science editor at mental floss and host of the quest for the north pole. A new podcast that reveals what pushed fame hungry adventurers ever farther into the unknown and sometimes to their deaths. Listen to the quest for the north pole on january. Fifteenth on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts a zanny and mitha stuff. I'm never told you. Production of iheartradio. Okay anne is gonna timestamp those because you know as per usual and it has what we've seen nothing makes sense and everything is out of timeframe. that's what i feel like Today is january seventh of twenty twenty one and yes it is the day after the big coup And i feel like we've already lived through two years of twenty twenty one so happy new year. Everybody this here. This is our first time recording in this survey year. Yeah so yeah. If we're sound a little rusty there are so many reasons but yes. That is one of those reasons but any. I have a question for you. I'm going to start off the first question of the year. What is it hasn't been our first release. Did your family teach you a lot about politics. And were they really involved in them. Yes and yes yes yes. My dad was a lawyer and he taught political science and criminal justice at the local college. When i was growing up and he carried around pocket constitutions and handed them out. He had the worst like arguing with him as a child. When you're in trouble was the worst because he would say like. Ignorance is not defensible under the law. Like he'd give you all these. Oh you couldn't win in those but also very My family was very liberal. And in fact. Because of that i was involved in a protest when i was fourteen i think as a middle school and i get involved in these various things because that was such a big threat and our family and it was like one of the few things where we could talk. Our whole family could talk and not get outraged. That changed later but at the time because of my older brother and my dad really didn't get along and a lot of things but They really shared that love of politics and talking about politics and getting involved and going to these events and and things like that and even small conservative town. We kind of had a reputation of being the weird bro. That's really unexpected especially yeah. You're very southern very mountains area of georgia town. So i mean your area where i grew up are very read like they would never been close to going anywhere tinging purple. Yeah i mean. I do think because i grew up in delano and along as a college town it is a military college but because of that there were perhaps than where you were there were they were more pockets of blue but yes still very north georgia was that you'll college. Yeah yeah but that's so funny because my two siblings both went there and they are very conservative. So i'm like for sure for sure. Yeah my family. I think i've talked about it for Are not necessarily political. But they have opinions and Growing up it wasn't necessarily we were being a anti political but it was just assumed that you would follow in the family's ideals and the main issue besides the economics of it all which meant Less taxes but of course more tax breaks for the rich. But we don't talk about that But just less less taxes for them as well as a civil rights was not a big key component to what they believed was necessarily important or they're very anti g. btcu growing up as well as Antiabortion so yeah. I definitely had that influence but we i wouldn't say they were political because they didn't understand it like that's the part that i get really frustrated in and understanding politics but kind of like a lot of us growing up. Of course we followed the family lead and didn't realize until we've been turned on about the depth of what this was representing. But that's a whole different conversation. We've had plenty of times. I know especially recently but today. That's not exactly what we're about but it does kind of border so we are talking about speaker of the house. Nancy pelosi and the reason. I wanted to talk a little bit about our family background. If you dig into her pass and dig into who she was. She grew up in a very very politically minded family. And so it's kind of interesting to see where your backgrounds are like for me. Politics never entered into the scope of careers for me. But you've talked about you thought about it. I did think about it and i foolishly. Now i look back. I thought well i did some bad like i smoked weed that one time. They'll never but you know what that was like her level of standards for nancy. pelosi kinda. yeah you need to be that squeaky clean to serve and now all gone out the window and yeah we don't wanna talk about the criminalization of some silly things but there are definitely criminalization of things that were like. How did you get into policies. How are you allowed to do this. So that's a whole different conversation but so by the way we did decided to do this episode. After it was announced that speaker pelosi would be Back in her position and back elected into that position. And we're all you know what let's do a quick rundown of who she is and kind of. Just get a background on her. Because i don't think we've done that before and as we were preparing an nasr we are getting this done just so you know i said today as one seven so yesterday was january sixth and the coup would happen and my mind is fried about you. Any but my brain is beyond fried. I've put a gif about how i was entering january. Seventh like the kid who's being dragged by the castle. That's exactly how i feel But to be fair just doing all this research even though as on point. It just felt very disconnected. I was glued to the electoral college process. And i'm friday because of course they didn't end what three am. And then. i was also trying to do the rest of this. And i'm like oh yeah this is going to make complete sense so apologies if this sounds a little disconnected. Because again my binders fried. I am and i know most of probably you listeners. As well as any yourself filling already emotionally exhausted from twenty twenty. One i texted. Okay are hello twenty. Twenty one already is outdated there that as well we did. We would out of our way to not predict anything seriously. Still miss the mark. We're amazing but yes so again. We're talking about nancy pelosi. So let's get started. So who is nancy pelosi. Yes and also before we get before. I start answering your question. This is not an endorsement or anything like that. Just want to put that out there. It's probably pretty clear. But we're just talking about her and write her career that kind of thing if nothing. I know she can be a very People have strong opinions right People have very strong opinions. As in fact my partner was everything and i was like. I don't know what you're talking about. But s endorsement but he cannot be denied and making history he has made some significant impacts in our culture and whatever it may be We definitely want acknowledged that as well as talk about why that's important. Yes oh with. That said with her childhood so nancy pelosi is the youngest of children. She's the only girl Born on march twenty sixth nineteen forty. She is the daughter of a baltimore. Mayor thomas j dallas sandro junior. Who's one of the first italian american mayors in maryland and also served on house of representatives and noone seatte. Nancy dila sandro. Who was an italian immigrant. Known quite well efforts as the first lady to her husband. In her obituary many people talked her support for her neighborhood and being hands on with her family and her husband. She made speeches and public appearances during her lifetime and in one appearance made a plea for housing assistance. Saying how can we expect the parents to teach their children love face and tolerance when we have no home when the home fails the community fails the nation fails and fun fact. She also obtained a patent for a steamer for skin. Moisturizing called velvet. I've never heard of that. Have you know but one of my favorite fun facts of all time. Is that people use to use marshmallow cream as the moisture. Blessaun sticky sounds terrible. Doesn't that's a nightmare. it's yes it does sound like a nightmare going onto her her family. Her brother like actually served as a mayor as well but for only one term in here to talk about family. Her family was heavily identified as democrat and she was right there with them. Obviously it was set. Her mother quote did not like anyone. Who's not a democrat and often would say not so nice things about people who did not identify as crap. But i mean i guess where we are today aren't we and it was even reported that when pelosi was offered a toy elephant by a republican poll worker. She refused it in disgust. Shame because the ilford is one of my favorite animals interesting. That's an okay got it. i got it though. Nancy didn't get involved in politics herself until she was forty seven speaker. Pelosi has always had some kind of involvement in it whether it was assisting others in campaigning. She definitely definitely knows the ins and outs of politics. At the age of twelve. She was known to handle her father's books. Which kept a tally of favors owed to him. Which apparently was also supposed to help her with her penmanship. Yeah i found that interesting. One thousand very italian s great in high school i. yeah. I had a little book. And i'd be like this x. Favor your favorites. Were very different from as favors your hope by the way she was also really influenced by her mother in how she networked and even hosted and organized within their homes her mother would actually have lasagne. Dinners and fundraisers to negotiate for her family and or to raise campaign money for her family. Her husband's specifically as fact at one point pelosi during hard time in the democratic party she also hosted a place like hundred dinners to raise money for different campaigns as well some attribute Pelosi skills to her mother and teaching her to listen and which Which many seemed to lack in the government so that is a great skill to have in general but yes specifically you would want but hey that's a whole different story is oh god. Last night's show but moving on college and marriage had aspirations of being a lawyer but instead remained with her family she Met her husband popolo. See while she was attending the roman catholic women's college trinity college and he was attending georgetown at the same time. She and paul had five children. Nancy corinne cristina. Jim and paul and alexandra which she all had within six years and she is a grandmother of nine and a lot of people attribute her organization and ability to juggle priorities to her abilities as a mother of five whose children would talk of her using negotiation and disciplined and even competition. We would hope friendly competition. That's what Daughter seems to be implying. But you know. I'm like that is always sound. Great but okay. Yeah i mean. I was very competitive with my siblings. I don't know. I don't know i think about it to this day. So she and her husband. I actually moved to san francisco after a small stint in manhattan where paul currently owns a real estate and consulting firm Financial leasing services inc. Which makes a lot of money where he lived in in stayed home to raise their children as well as supportive of paul during his businesses But she's still continued in her political involvement. Where was whether it was through fundraising or with the dnc or even just advising people are even attending things with her parents and or brother and so sort of brings us to the beginning of her career Though she was already involved with the democratic party it wasn't until nineteen seventy six that she used her connections and networking to help california governor jerry brown in his bid the presidency. She was a big influence for him. for the maryland primaries which he attributed to her however he did end up losing to jimmy carter so she continued on a rise as she was in the california democratic party and taking on the role as a chairwoman and eventually she even wanna seat in congress in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. She did not run for office until after her last child finish highschool and according to reports california representatives. Sala burton requested on her deathbed for her to run and fill her seat. So that's pretty right okay. To and by the way she has won seventeen terms as a representative. She was quickly known as an advocate for human rights specifically When it concerned china relations and for the lgbtq plus community as she was beginning her political career her community was impacted a lot by the aids epidemic and she fought to get more government funding for aids and hiv research during that time and actually she when it came to the china relations because of so many human rights violations that were occurring at the time she was absolutely opposed in trading having any kind of deals with them and during her spent with bill clinton she was one of the few opposed His international deals in order to trading. And all of that. So it's pretty interesting to see where she was at the fact that because our community was also heavily populated by the chinese immigrants. She wanted to represent for their interests in the violations that were happening in that country. Yeah that is interesting sort of the evolution of all of that and we do have a lot more to talk about here. But first we're gonna pause for a quick break forward for our sponsor this episode is brought to you by best means feel like you've already binge watched about everything this year. Well let me suggest something better to do with your free. Time is called best teams Beans that's friends without the our best beings. Is this epic puzzle game of to download for free via the app store or google play. Best fiends is easy to play. But it really makes you think and there are over five thousand levels so best. Beans provides a lot of hours of entertainment. And there's nothing wrong with that. I mean you've got to treat yourself. 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You carmax the way it should be and we're back. Thank you sponsor so. Yeah coming back in her time and the government. she's had many. I under her belt first. Female minority whip first female congressional party and of course the first and only female speaker of the house She was nominated in two thousand one as the minority whip which made her the first again minority whip. Though there have been several female chief. Deputy was before her Including maxine waters in one thousand nine hundred nine and by the way speaker. Pelosi is the only female to have held that position in two thousand and three representative policy was elected as the leader of the democratic caucus. And yes once again the only female to hold that position and speaker of the house in two thousand seven and then re elected she was reluctant between nineteen and she just won her third term this year and by the way she is actually the one that conceded to having terms for that position Not happy when she got that position and so she as a way of negotiating and compromising she agreed to a tournaments. So i thought that was interesting and oh i'm sure you already know we're going to give you a quick run through of the responsibilities speaker of the house. So they are. The speaker of the house is the forefront authoritative spokesperson for the house majority. They see house committees and provide structure for debates with the house rules committee they also navigate provides structure for house debate and make sure to follow procedures with according to the rules and regulations of the house and they also oversee everything from accounting to cure for the house and they are also a second in line for the presidency. After the vice president throughout her career pelosi was given many titles including prehistoric democrat. Lahti democrat and the san francisco democrat. Her opponents said that she was a rich politician who supposedly spoke for the poor and that her agendas were too liberal and leftist right as the law take x. concept is. You have a lot of money like because i've looked this up. Looks like what what's a lot i. I absolutely knew that. I knew it. This kind of happens semi recently with kale conversation. I don't know that anyone was called a kale democrat. But there was kind of this kerfuffle around kale and people who bought koa. You can figure out during her time in the bush administration Pelosi was allowed opponent to the iraq. War calling bush incompetent leader and she advocated for a withdrawal of the troops right And she definitely oppose lot of wars under his administration and a different administrations In under obama administration she played a key role in pushing for the affordable healthcare act and we actually defending it today. which did not go well instills not going well for a lot of conservative conservative leading rubs and constituents she became quite a focal point for many of the attack As in fact we've seen them as of recently due to her strong positions in access the aca. And apparently before john off ran for the senate he was running for house and they kept calling him his her. Yes man or yes boy and that was kind of one of their attacks on him was saying that he would do anything. Pelosi asked him as we have to stop him immediately. Which i guess worked handle. Actually one one that one. But i was like okay. That's super interesting. Feels kind of relevant today. Yeah for sure. Pelosi was also a key player in getting enough votes to help out with the seven hundred million dollar wall street. Bailout in two thousand eight or the emergency economic stabilization. Act of two thousand eight which yes caused quiet controversy as many Opposed it saying quote. It was ill conceived and wrist too much taxpayer money to help. Wall street tycoons. But as we know she did get the votes many of her colleagues would often say that she was a fierce leader who would keep her quote majority in line and was able to toe the party line with efficiency right god and this kind of brings us a little to where we are today and i will say they were have been obviously if seven terms started out in one thousand nine hundred eighties many of things that she has done in many things that she has been criticized for praise for and all of those different things. But we couldn't get into all of that without doing a whole a larger dish area lesson so interest there. You want more information. I have so many references that you can find But i will say she's very private and even the biographies on her are somewhat muted. Because she doesn't really like to talk to people she doesn't like interviewing with people and doesn't even say me things and she's absolutely kinda that wasp that she will not say you too many controversial things and we'll say things like i don't want to reflect on that i don't wanna talk about that best past than gone so she's a very private. I guess very socially conscious woman. I don't i don't know. Affiliates waspy nineteen fifties kind of nine hundred seventy s kind of attitude. Maybe not maybe just really loud and obnoxious who knows but yeah both could be but as of recent years to say the least speaker pelosi has become quite the figure head in politics today. She's been everything from a meme to fashion icon her orange code and the hills a loved that code. I'm not gonna lie. And the once seen as an ultra liberal by some maybe considered more moderate leaning. She's been more likely to negotiate in order to pass certain bills. Which kind of happens when you have a different party. Leading the senate and the presidential office even still has really been in contention with many of the more leftist progressive congressional figures such as the ladies of the squad. Aoc and such and bernie sanders. So it's interesting to see where she is today from heart beginnings. Yeah at a reflection on where society is right. When she was first starting out she was a liberal. To left is to now before like leftists. Enough way it's just this progression. Sure it's a progression She has made quite an impression as she continues to push against the extremes of the current administration even causing a stalemate which became a thirty five day government shutdown over two bands for funding of the us mexico border wall but eventually she did give in to allow for an allocation of one point. Three seven five billion dollars. The negotiations to approve the funding did bring a divide between her and the squad but it quickly regrouped when attacked by the president right. You know nothing like a chauvinist misogynist to bring you together right no okay. So she's been an opposition towards the imagination whether it was to oppose the dismissal of dako or the dreamers program or finally conceding to impeachment hearings against donald trump though many had felt there are plenty of allegations to start impeachment proceedings. It wasn't until reports that trump withheld military aid from ukraine. In order to have them investigate. Joe biden's son. That proceedings began in september. Two thousand nineteen was impeached in december. Twenty nine thousand nine of course was acquitted by the senate in twenty twenty though she had tried to delayed sending the article tend to reach a fair consideration from the senate. But that obviously did not work so as you might imagine to say the least President trump is not a fan of. Does he call it crazy. Nancy the mini exchanges between them. I've been Pretty open public. You know whether it was trump. Name calling the infamous ripping of the speech and the circus's clap. Which has become an iconic gifts and gift to all of us. I love that image so much. I won't lie kind of gave me life little bells. Yeah okay. I did this. I live for the day. When i clamp bad. Somebody's face especially the leader of the world leader of a country Great thanks So we did want to look into some of the things that are happening. Now but first we're gonna pause for one more quick break for word from our sponsor. If i could be you and you could be me for just one hour if you can find a way to get inside the others mind. Walk a mile in my shoes. Walk a mile in my shoes shoes. We've all felt left out and for some that feeling lasts more than a moment. We can change that learn. How at belonging begins with us dot. Org brought to you. By the ad council the mile what do explores an army officer and minnesota insurance salesman have in common. They all wanted to be the first to reach the north pole but only one of them made it. I'm cat long science editor at mental floss host of the new podcast the quest for the north pole which dives into the centuries long race to explore the arctic. Find the northwest passage and conquer the top of the world with a cast of daring adventurers. And some pretty determined amateurs the race to the poll reveals the human desire to solve mysteries geography on the soul. We'll look at the important arctic expeditions that filled the blank spaces on the map and recognize how indigenous people made them. Successful will examine what pushed explorers to further into the unknown and uncharted and how the climate crisis changing the arctic today. Listen to the quest for the north pole on january. Fifteenth on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast back. Thank you sponsor so. Yeah let's talk about. There's so many things that we can talk about about. How it's i have a feeling by the time this releases which is not too long from now tomorrow. It's still my change because all of a sudden holding my breath to see what happens today There are many things to look for this upcoming term as we know both the house and the senate yeah half let thank you georgia with remains. A lot of changes will be Happening as they will have party control for both house in it and the presidential branch yes so pelosi has introduced. A new code of conduct within the house will require the use of gender neutral language. she along with the rules committee. Chairman james mcgovern have introduced a new code of conduct to promote more inclusivity and diversity and it would permanently establish an office of diversity and inclusion. And we'll bring new rules. That quote will honor all gender identities by changing pronouns and familial relationships in the house rules to be gender neutral according to the hill And of course the anti lgbtq plus reps are not happy about this and have already started to mock and disrespect the concept of pronoun preferences She actually state that she is making sweeping changes when it comes to things like this so it is exciting to see that. She's getting ready to move forward in representations so that's lovely to see And of course with the most recent stimulus package there was lot negotiations and compromise but as the country takes a turn and tries to find the balance in the economy as well as the healthcare industry. Whether we're talking about vaccine access healthcare access and overall payment procedures. There's going to be a massive overhaul to the system. We already know President-elect biden has already may conversations about this and Speaker pelosi has been an adamant supporter in giving more relief. So we'll see what happens with that. Yeah we will see. Of course what happened with the recent insurrection. People in her office taking pictures and continued controversy of the electoral voting process which was successful right. Now it's so hard to have faith in the system right. It was voted and counted and accepted as of last night. With all the contention that happened as we said earlier. Yeah it did not into the middle of the night because of the storming of the capitol and yeah going into her office. They in taking her envelopes they and getting into email that was opened because she was rushed out of her office It's gonna be interesting for sure. Yeah so we're holding our breath. I'm actually going to start the new year. I've i've given up already. I'm going to start it after auguries talk to restart. It was funny. Because i was like. You know what i'm gonna drink lists than thousand and twenty one. Then that happened. i was like. Where's my box. Well dry january is now out the window. Thank you very much it so twenty. first after. We'll see we'll see you. Were holding us and yeah. We're hoping that something can be done to contain the current backlash of the continued conspiracy. Theories that are being papa gated and all of that all of that and yet right now. It's a conversation of whether or not we'll see the twenty fifth amendment enacted and there's a whole conversation about the people have plans. I love seeing this Which is why can knock off twitter to save my life because this is where i get my news Between talking about enacting the twenty fifth amendment and impeaching him and then making sure he doesn't run for office again and then of course bringing criminal charges. But hey i know that pelosi speaker pelosi is already kind of backed down a couple of times stating they wanted to move on with it And it does feel like a cop out but again i guess is a bit different being the leader as she is so Yes yes but outside of that we did want to throw some random facts on there. That i didn't know where else to put here And yeah did you know that pelosi is a big fan of chocolate. Actually has a whole stash of delhi chocolate in her office. Which is you know mosh to her hometown to where she represents san francisco and she keeps it on the regular And even having chocolate ice cream apparently like she has two scoops of chocolate on own for breakfast. She does not care who she's eating with that he has he's had it for breakfast a majority of our time so people know this. She loves it and she's not going to back down but she don't eat her chocolate. Let's funny because i remember learning that and then it became this thing like where i was like. Well nancy pelosi. she's successful. she can do it. I can do her and her husband own to vineyards that are worth multimillion dollars right. I was very fascinated. I don't i think i saw where it was but i lost that contest. So if you can tell me people audience what vineyards they own let me know and she has been deemed one of the biggest fundraisers for the democratic party which has sparked a lot of controversy. She raised two hundred and twenty seven. Point nine million dollars before this past election in november. And i did want to say like we didn't really get on get into it in this episode. We've talked about it in other episodes there. She is the leader of the house. So there is a certain amount of backlash. You're going to get and criticism. You're going to get no matter. What but i do feel like. There's been this gendered criticism of her when we are seeing the attack ads for again. She wasn't the person running right. They would bring her up. Conqueror pelosi crazy agenda. And i just feel like there's something gendered and hurt the hatred of hers. Something pretty gendered. And i'm not saying she's by any means perfect. It's just something i feel. No absolutely actually. There was a report. And i didn't include it in here because rely again. I'm scattered in which they talk about the fact that yes most speakers have been given light negative popularity ratings including paul both of them were seen very negatively but what he came to the point system she was significantly less than him and it absolutely has a gender bias whether it's because she is either to twos forward not ford again to liberal not liberal enough and of course we can talk about the whole perception of yes. She is a bureaucrat. She has been in politics all her life. So it doesn't look wonderful when you look at a system that you fill is already tainted Which is kind of conversations having now but Yeah she for no reason at all she has been perceived as this way and yeah like one of the things that they use is her constantly talking and picturing her as nagging. That is the Ridiculous but in fact the clapping and the ripping of the speech she was raped over the coals by the conservatives. Saint how disrespectful she was and how she didn't keep it in line all of these things and she just said essentially his words were lies. This is a page of lies is. That's why she ripped it up. It was absolutely true and this is of course after. He snubbed her and wouldn't shake her hand because she and he had the argument about border control and all such things Which is adamantly against so. I think it's definitely one of those things as well as the fact that as we've seen the level of taxes that have happened within this administration that everything they do seem so mild in comparison to how extreme the other side is going cluding bringing up lies absolute lies and willing to do it in front of their parties and during a process of political tradition. I guess the best way to put it in in the constitution and taking the data part They're willing to do that. They're willing to bring in people to lie for them. They're willing to have calls telling them do this for me. Even though doesn't reflect the truth and instead of outright going after them they're trying to play polite games and that's that is infuriating. As in fact yesterday. I truly truly called out what has been happening. And what is going on. And putting responsibility where it needs to be It definitely frustrating to see that so there are all these things but she's not the only one but because she is a species being pointed out in raked over the coals even harder and she's not only being attacked by the left but the right of she's not only being attacked by the right but some by the left and rightly so because when you want to see change and you don't see people following that line and again her big Talent apparently is towing that line is keeping people in check and it is a that could be infuriating and it is It was very very close in her. Not gaining position again. It was by slim margins. So that's significant in itself So it's interesting to see where we are and she definitely plays a political came game when it comes to money and that just feels dirty essence and again. He's like like we know she's not the only one but because she is in this place because she's been around since the eighties because her whole life has been around politics. It does way on who she how we see her for sure. Yeah yeah. I couldn't believe when i told you i couldn't believe when learned. She was eighty right chills. Good she does. She says so. That's what we have to say about nancy. Pelosi for now. We hope all your listeners. Doing okay out there. Listening hugs virtually will stay pug and we love to hear from you. all right. email is stuff media mom stuff at iheartradio dot com. You can find us on instagram stuff. I'm never told you or on twitter at mom stuff. Podcast things always towards super producer. Andrew howard thank you and thanks to you listening steph. I'm never told us. Production of iheartradio for more podcast from iheartradio. Visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. 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#WhoWouldWin: Godzilla vs. Voltron

#WhoWouldWin

59:56 min | 2 years ago

#WhoWouldWin: Godzilla vs. Voltron

"Well on earth preparing to do battle with the goal. Rutta empire the five Paladin Shiro Keith Lance Pige at hunk hear a deafening. Roar from the seas below the ocean gross turbulent and the king of the monsters Godzilla bursts forth from the deep without a second. Thought. The Paladins form the legendary defender voltron to greet the reptile menace eye to eye Godzilla now witness to a gigantic equal howls to the heavens that he will prove his dominance. Once again, it's mecca versus monster the galactic liberator versus the Tokyo devour its voltron vs Godzilla today on. Who would? Who would win I show that completely ignores anything important happening the world and instead focuses on a fictional battle between two characters from the world's comic SCI fi and fantasy. I'm your host James Gav Z, and I'm joined by our new co host. What's yes Ray? Tell everyone your full name. I wanna make sure oh my name is raised to Kanus otherwise known as almighty Ray hero to a group of people. What what kind of group? Are. You a hero to anyone can join really I don't like to cast people out fair enough. Is it a large group or is this a we don't discuss numbers for numbers are immaterial? Okay. Let's do this Ray. This is your first time on the who would win showed. Please tell everyone why you think you are good enough to be a permanent co host on the who would win show no pressure, by the way, I don't need pressure. I eat pressure for breakfast and leave it behind for lunch. We all know you can't afford to go anywhere and buy breakfast never mind lunch. So I don't believe that statement whatsoever. Okay. Let's see. How today's episode goes things should be very interesting. And speaking of interesting, we have a very special guest moderator on our show today from final draft and the right on podcast. We have the one and only p Dalla Sandro Pete, thanks for being on the show. You host the final draft right on podcast, which is show that shares stories and advice from Oscar winning writers, directors and other people from around the entertainment industry have listened to number of episodes and actually kind of blown away by the guests. You've had on it in your opinion. You know, gives a quick description of the show and your opinion, which guests were the most memorable. I thank you. Thanks for having a seer final draft Azeri grateful. I'm very grateful, but the best people I think we've had on the most apprising we had Vanessa Taylor on last year. Who is you know, kind of a talent crush of mine and then shape of water the movie she most recently wrote she was. Game of thrones. If you really watch the credits for game of thrones one episode at a time pay attention that little two seconds. When it says who wrote the episode a lot of your favorite episodes will have Esa Taylor's name on it. She wound up winning her movie wound up winning best picture last year. It was just a it was a nice surprise to see that interview served. Just because of course, just because I wanted to have her on the show, and then it was like, oh, she also had to write this year's best picture. So that was great. I do remember really finally years ago. We had dean to blow on who wrote directed. How to train your dragon one and two around the corner is how to train your dragon three at the moment. And it's supposed to be fantastic. So yeah, just go back and listen that when if you're looking for a fun. Yeah. I was telling the family I saw how to train your dragging three is coming out. And I said, oh, we all have to see that. And my kids like, oh, yeah. How did you know, we really liked it? And I'm like, right. You like sure. That's awesome. Okay. So raise had experience with writing scripts reading scripts I write scripts read scripts this we've talked about before in the comic book industry. I get this all the time people are asking what do you think is the best way to get started? And they say it's it's about the story. And I see it. Yeah. Definitely need the story in the characters. But I also say you need know how to write a script. Yes. And a lot of conflict writers. They just go on the fly open up Microsoft Word and just start typing. And I'm like do yourself a favor get final draft bias towards draft. Because I just love the software. It's really easy not trying to plug it right now. But it's it's awesome. What is your opinion? When it comes to come book writers script writing design get you further heading the industries to help you start. What do you think I think one of the things that basically start that over the most easily way I can describe how fun of mixed things better? Is that? It makes you free to make those mistakes faster and screenwriting is about making those mistakes and rewriting writings we riding the Oakley. But that's really true. And you want to be able to to be in a format where it's efficient to get those mistakes out of the way to right? Look at it and go, no that's not right. I need to go back, and I need to fix this. I need to make this better. Any the sharper funnier everything and a tool lets you do that in a productive way in a helpful way. Microsoft word. Hey, you can type words in it. But it just doesn't do all the shortcuts and all the other things that founded have does specifically for script. So there are a lot of reasons to do that. But I think the deepest way in is to know that you're in a format that is the correct format to end with otherwise you start getting lazy. I mean, people do really write by hand. But then you start to make mistakes again, it's well, my really gonna use my tear this piece of paper out or just if you hit command ex you don't have to make that decision about am. I being lazy right now or not. And that actually is a factor. So every. Shortcut you can possibly get. When you're writing starting rewriting everything goes into how your process works. You made the statements before coming on the show. I thought was brilliant that a script in helped me with his script is the quickest way and most officiant way to convey Intel a story. Now, you got it that was it. I mean, my my opinion on this is that when you look at a piece of paper, a good script of single page has the least amount of ink on it to achieve the story, and the other person's mind whoever's reading it, and that's what you wanna do. You wanna paint that picture with as few pixels of ink as possible? So they don't have to waste any time. It's fishing. It's fast, and that way people who have to read hundreds of scripts every week content through yours as fast as possible. And that's what you want. You don't want any incentive for them to put that down. Very cool. Can I add here for just a moment that there's a term in Hollywood and the rest of the world for people who would use Microsoft Word or? Something other than final draft to write their scripts, and you know, we call them we don't call them because they're immaterial to the industry. Well, done harsher statement that I would be making. But well, I'm done. You are. Okay. That was a very subtle statement on race like. Subtle like that. To tell the truth, James. What what truth does your mirror? Tell you in the morning. Everyday. It tells me you are great go kit. It tiger. It's been working whatever he's doing definitely working for what I'm not sure there's something that I would say it got me here on the greatest podcast known to man. You are the you're the greatest podcast, I've until okay, I'm Pete. I'm just going to right now for Ray. I don't think outside he looked lonely. We offered some seafood and all in. Well, he's here. So let's just go with it learned that lesson about locking doors have to waive any further apologies. One to stand for the rest of your fair enough. Now before we get started. You know, we're talking about final draft. We want to give a quick shout out to final draft as they are an amazing sponsor of the show again final draft, in my opinion, and many other people's opinion as well is the world's best grips writing software and final drafts. Even better than ever with version eleven that has a ton of new features tailored for comic book writers. And that's on top of the fact that final draft has look script templates from all. All of the major comic book companies. So do yourself a favor. Go to final draft dot com to download a pretrial aversion eleven and see for yourself. How great final draft script. Writing software really is. So with all that said it's about that time Ray, please do us the honors and announce today's matchup representing the Japanese cinematic universe. The baddest stem Fibi into ever eat Tokyo. God Zillah and representing the Japanese animated universe. The lions who proved teamwork makes the dream work voltron well done Ray. Now before we go any further people have been asking me, you know, for over a year would be doing the podcast live shows. What are the rules of a who would win show or who would win matchup? Let's go over the rules really quickly. We need rules James. Yes. It'd make my job easier. If that's what you need to protect you then. Okay. Fair enough. All right. Rule number one the who would win matches a random counter with neither side necessarily knowing anything about their opponent or having any time to prepare for it. You know, batmans magical two-week week prep time can't do it. Not a thing rule. Number two. The exact version of the character has to be specifically stated for example. If you're using superman, you must specify but superman from the film's animation or comic books. Again. The debater must stay within that version of the character. The exception to this rules when both parties agree to use any and all versions of that particular character within the who would win debate rule number three the winner who would win or the who'd win debate is whom ever the judge or moderator decides has the best ability to encamp incapacitate their opponent to the degree where they can safely walk away with no further threat being present. This includes completely destroying the opponent removing them from the field of battle restraining them or knocking them out though, who would win battles are not necessarily death matches. Now, the moderator. Disallow veto appoint made by one of the debaters if they feel it goes outside of the scope of the battle or is relevant to the fight and the last rule number five Easter baiter must use examples of powers abilities or weapons that are part of the specific characters continuity or lease was with that character for a good deal of time. One off examples of powers were Billy's that were used again, only ones in the characters history will not be allowed. Now, let's get to the tail the tape or both combatants. Today's tale. The tape is brought to you by who would win t shirts. Accept no imitations. Find the official who'd when shirt on Amazon by typing in hashtag who would win rape. Please. Give us the details on God Zillah Godzilla is a gigantic sea monster I seen on film in nineteen fifty four Godzilla and the destruction. He causes are truly the result of man's folly the nuclear bomb set off on Hiroshima and Nagasaki left a massive amount of radiation that seeped into the ocean awakening and empowering this over one hundred meter tall. But he. With who in a fit of rage levels. Tokyo Godzilla has appeared in thirty five movies as well as TV shows cartoons video games and the world of comics as a radioactive funster godzillas power set is ever evolving and mutating his standard attack is his Tomek heat beam. We're in he harnesses nuclear energy from inside his own body, and shoots that energy out of his mouth at whatever he wants to destroy Godzilla also known for his tough hide and durability as all conventional weapons seemed to have no effect on his behemoth size. Additionally, Godzilla has developed the powers of precondition magnetism, fire breath, superhuman speed and even flight a couple interesting things to mention about godzillas how his name came about the name godzillas actually Portman do of the Japanese words, go re-re or guerrilla or and also coup JIRA wail as an allusion to his size power and his. Aquatic origins. Also, his distinctive. Roar was created by composer Akira excuse me, Kira if Kobe who created the sound by rubbing pine tar, resin coated glove along the strings of contra bass, and then slowed down the sound effect. And that is all you need to know about Godzilla. It's almost like he was reading that off menu. It's a menu of Bannu thanksgiving. I like it. Well, here's the menu option of volts Ron now the version of John will be defending is bullsh- Tron. The legendary defender the latest version of voltron on Netflix and voltron reboot the nineteen eighties. Voltron franchise Japanese anime series beast king Goliath, the series is set in a universe where planetary energy called essence can be used to power vehicles as well as magic voltron a one hundred meter tall. Robot were composed of five line, meccas whose pilots are known as the Paladins. Now each line possesses unique traits strengths and weaponry. For example, the yellow lion has known more for its armor plating ability to ram objects. Whereas the red line is known more speed each line has powerful weapons of their own as well as being the ply faster than the speed of light when combined the create one of the most if not the most powerful robot fictional history will run on top of super powerful sword the blazing sword and almost indestructible shield made out of it swings. Super speed and incredible power durability. Voltron has a host of weapons that can be called upon depending on the situations. Facing using the magical and technologically advanced Baird's, the Paladins voltron can provide instant upgrades whenever the need to including advanced weaponry increases in speed and cloaking. And here's an interesting fact about voltron, did you know that Shiro the original Paladin of the black line leader voltron who's also one of animations first openly gay characters was originally supposed to be killed off the end of season two is true. The produces the show had a plan where sheer would be killed off. But decided against it as everyone as an everyone from the production team to the decision makers Netflix to the millions of fans the show, including myself love shares character so much they decided to keep them alive series to avoid the massive protests that would have happened otherwise. And now, you have the facts on both opponents Pete do you have any questions before we get started? No. I think we're ready to start a good background on both guys. So let's see what happens. Very cool. I actually have a question for Ray. Great which version we're going with regards. We say cinematic the cinematic universe could go with the comic book version where he stood toe to toe with earth's mightiest hero is the ventures. A thing that many people can say they did. But not many can say they hung with them. I will not be using that because I didn't wanna put this match on easy mode. You're right this mash does seem very easy for me with having voltron corner. But with that being said Ray hit us with your point number one. Okay. My first point here is just called our weapons are useless voltron is a giant robot. Obviously he uses a whole host of conventional weapons anytime you've seen voltron. What is he doing? He's shooting missiles he's shooting laser beams bullets punching kicking throwing his body. None of that is going to work against Godzilla at all. He's proven time and time get thirty. Eighty five movies of proof that Godzilla can take licking and keep on ticking. Many many times Godzilla I stands cross to adversary. And the adversary will just shoot whatever it can add him, the military will have tanks and bombers and missiles, and they will shoot f- -solutely everything they can at him Godzilla might get knocked down. Oh, no. That's not defeat. Godzilla can get knocked down at which point. He opens. His eyes gets real real mad stands up intends tends to slaughter whatever just at that to make him mad. So when you have a hide and a regenerator factor that Godzilla possesses all these simple attacks that voltron is gonna come armed to the teeth with and they are very impressive for what he is. They're not going to to anything to God Zillah and zilla not to mention that. So we've already established full on can't hurt Godzilla in any way, shape or form. Excellent Godzilla can do any kind of number of things I mentioned before he has the power of. Magnetism? What's a robot a bunch of metal magnets are going to destroy him. Bolts could simply try to fly away. Go to a higher cliff. Get the high ground silicon fly he can fly out there and punch him left right and center, and that's not even to mention the most powerful arsenal that voltron is not going to be able to see coming because even people who do know, it's they're still get hit by it. The atomic heat blast from his mouth. And this is where I think Godzilla is going to shine because that is an attack voltron ain't going be able to tank, and that is my point number one peop- before cantor that do you have any comments on that very uninformed yet animated point number one. From Ray there's a good deal. The trash talking is way ahead here. It is. Yeah. 'cause it was way head and trash talking. I think that's one of the things we have to voltron makeup for. So I'll leave it at that. Gotcha. So in national physical fight. Voltron still evenly matched Godzilla your eyes except the trash talking. We haven't seen much from voltron yet. So they trash talk makes the trash walk. So. I'm not sure if you can hear that. So Mira our engineer. Hello. Hello. Hello for the show. Amir I feel a little betrayed right now. I thought we had an understanding that you'd be on my side. Point. You're doing a great job so far. I just want you to know, I'm in your corner. Even if James is not thank you. At least somebody is. But you have a chance to you know, with your point. Appreciate that. You may. Question how well can God Zillow fly Godzilla can fly when he needs to. I would say it's he doesn't have the flight ability of voltron. But if he does need to get from point eight point be how does he do it and get it done? He uses his breath, and he pushes himself up in the air and gets to worry needs power vomits, his atomic breath towards the ground to shoot them up. And then slowly go places wherever you know. Right. That's that's okay. That's okay. Because voltron is going to have to get close to make anything happen anyway. Oh, interesting. Interesting. Okay. How you also said that godzillas wet or sorry voltron weapons are ineffective against voltron. Where was that established in any? Did you have examples that can you know, support that? Well, sure in the battle Godzilla vs mecca Godzilla to which I'll be leaning on heavily for my next point Godzilla fights giant robot, monsters and mecca Godzilla shoots out of his feet. He shoots missiles Adam him. He shoots his own version of the heat beam Godzilla tanks, it he takes every single shot to the face gets knocked over gets up calmly walks. Right. Over to mecca Godzilla and one shots him right to the face. So you're acquainting mecca Godzilla with bowl Tron. Absolutely. As far as overall power level, obviously there from two different universes. But I think if we were to reach the level they're both about the same. Okay. Interesting. No proof to that whatsoever. But how does how does God Zillah do against mecca godzillas blazing sword? Well, I believe that's a point. You're going to have to make James. Yeah. Yeah. That's the point. He doesn't have one nor does he have the other weapons of anyway moving on. Here's my point number one. I'm just going to call his power weapons personality and durability. Look, we all know that voltron super powerful super durable and his very versatile with the different weapons. It can use in battle. Let's take a look at just how powerful voltron really as firstly voltron strong enough to lift and throw large water called Roby's, which are giant sized creatures that both front vice typically as lodge or even larger than bulletin or Godzilla and is big as gods. Elliot's voltron actually faced much much larger opponents, and I mean heavier opponents on top of that bull Tron has the ability to push insanely large ships while in space as well as tear through them with relative ease voltron is extremely extremely powerful. Now, Secondly, voltron has weapons that are actually not just personal but can be called upon to increase voltron. Overall power whenever they need to kneel on top of insanely powerful laser cannons shield that it makes with its wings at blog pretty much anything that blasted at a Blache. Shootout beams of intense cold and an ability to cloak itself. Voltron also has eventually before the blazing sword that can cut through virtually anything. Now, what makes voltron so back of weaponry isn't just the fact of the weapons are so diverse powerful. It's a fact that all of the Paladins piloting voltron have military training. Imagine a sword that can cut through pretty much anything being used at super speed with military precision. So there's a huge skill component as well. However, it's voltron durability. That may be the deciding factor in this battle look Godzilla again, insanely powerful and deathly no slouch in the area of durability. However, can God Zillah take a blast of energy that is designed to destroy planet. Well, voltron can see during season said season seven of electron legendary Fender on Netflix voltron attempting to stop. The goal ramp from destroying the earth when they're trying to take it over and using super powerful energy beam to do that they realize they're not gonna take over the earth. There the defenses too strong. So we might as well just blow it up. So they create this huge device they shoot an energy being designed to destroy the planet. Voltron has no choice but to get in its way before they come their secondary measure voltron tanks. It takes the blast designed to destroy that planet and then comes back and keeps on fighting. Now. Of course, he felt it. But he didn't give up and you saves the day after it. The question then becomes can God Zillah survive, similar attack and more importantly can God Zillah hit voltron with an attack that is more powerful than a planet destroying energy in the area of overall, durability offensive weaponry and durability against planet destroying weapons Godzilla just may not be able to match up against bowl Tron. And that's my point number one. I mean fascinating. I mean, you try James, and I appreciate the effort. Couple of questions that I would have here questions. Silly statements. I'd like to make you remember that voltron can tear ships apart and pushed them around in space. Correct. Yes. Well, how's the gravity in space, James the gravity? I'm glad you brought that up is so insignificant that these huge rocket ships are fueled by this magical essence called quintessence. The ships are super powerful is hard to move them. They can fly at super speeds there. What this gal ri- empire uses to invade and destroy planet. So they're very powerful. That's what bowl. Trump pushes embarrassing yourself right now, if there is no gravity than anybody. A soda can can shoot you across space because there is no gravity. This is not even a big who I push things around in zero g you could push a five ton weight around in zero g with minimal effort because gravity doesn't exist in space, James. So that point is ridiculous. You mentioned the laser sword. The laser sword is the one spot. I don't think I can stop. You the laser sword is absolutely how voltron could potentially defeat Godzilla. However when does voltron pull out the laser sword? Does he open every battle by pulling out the sword? And just start wailing away on people. I just want to say, I'm very impressed by your physicality. It looked like he was using a sword in the studio. That's right. But it could have been a hammer. Well, it was really good improv. I'm really just referring to voltron overall skill with the sword. Because he does look like a carpenter when he uses it typically with knife trying to Jesus and the Dantley. Well, I'm not gonna go there. But unfortunately, he died twice. So, you know, it's funny. You may have how many times Godzilla died in the movies, by the way, he has regenerative power so zero is the answer to that question. He always comes back. There's another movie. So clearly he wasn't dead. So Godzilla sounds like Jesus now little bit except he can do it more than twice. But so we'll translate got more of a Moses thing is this versus that is what this battle eventually boils down to one last point James, you mentioned the earth destroying blast couple of things about that one. Obviously voltron tank it it's not powerful enough to destroy a planet. So the caller emperor definitely got that wrong. But first and second off voltron going to be using that blast in this battle. I don't remember that listed under his power. You got silica tank earth destroying. Last but voltron doesn't do that. So he showing trying to wait so episode in season seven now Pete you saw voltron the legendary defenders I saw a lot of it. Yeah. Yeah. And remember when the goal ram pyre were like the forming that big huge energy weapon and a big lasers gonna shoot down. I saw that one. But I think I picture you told me before so stop lying. So here's the deal. Here's a deal voltron took it. He took it was designed to destroy the planet. And that's why voltron and the rest of the people on earth were like, oh my God. We don't stop it. We're done. They was designed destroy a planet. Squirrel can design an acorn to destroy humans face. When he throws it that doesn't mean it's going to happen. Right. So the point you're trying to make here for voltron proven. They can take it can take a lot a lot of damage now Ray, your point is that go engineering is not really what it's cracked up. Obviously, not yet ten thousand years old they conquered the universe. So it's time to upgrade like final draft eleven. Or like that squirrel who designs spinal draft too. I must be up to date. It's been around for so long. No, you upgrade to the best of lable, which clearly he did not is trying to speak to the judge here. And I get that. But I will ask one question is it working could be all right? Also, you had mentioned pushing things around in space with no gravity, but we're talking physics at faster than light speeds here. So I don't know if soda cans really hold up to the well soda cans, not gonna make faster than light, obviously. But it was L astray point. I'm just giving something to the gall Ranjini ears here. They did something. Right. I mean, they establish spaceflight. You gotta give them a point. I I'm just so in awe of raise advanced degrees in physics and bio mechanic. He's got none of those by the way. I learn everything know from the streets. Yes. Right. Streets Sesame Street in all the streets, James street. All right. Go ahead with your point number two point number two for God Zillah is this is nothing to him. He's been here before been there devoured that Godzilla as we've said before thirty five movies and does that mean, he's fought thorough only thirty five monsters. No at the beginning. He would got Sola versus mothra Godzilla versus whatever it was a one on one encounter until people realized we can't defeat Godzilla with just one monster. So then they decided to start taking the monsters. He was fighting and make nettle robotic versions of them. Because obviously, if we're the cutting edge of the future, we can then defeat Godzilla, except they couldn't they couldn't do it the best they can do is piss him off, and that's not going to be acceptable. So in his battles against a the monsters. He eventually had to escalate them and get even bigger with it to the point where God Zola's fighting two three four monsters at the same. time and sure Godzilla might have had team ups as well. He didn't need them. You want offer charity? He's a charitable in Fibi. And I appreciate that. He would let lesser monsters get involved to help him take out some some of the big boys. One particular example, that I wanted to bring up is a king get Dora, which is a giant monster, very powerful. You know, the story with giant monsters and Godzilla films cut crushed him just absolutely defeated immediately at which point the scientists of the era decided that's not gonna be enough. So they created mecca Kinga Dora out of all the robotic parts and mecca king Cadore could hang with God ZOA for a little while he had the idea of battlefield removal, which we had talked about as a way to win the battle here. Mecca kin Gadara grows able to grab Godzilla punch him around a little bit knock him a little bit Losey and tried to fly him into the ocean to leave him at the depths. The problem was he forgot that Godzilla isn't just going to go down without a fight. So. Godzilla at the closest range physically possible. Hit him with the atomic heat beam right in the face and essentially walked from the ocean's floor and left making Godzilla there behind him. So battlefield removal not gonna work because you got to get close to do it in the second. You get too close to gut zilla. That's when the things come out. That's when if you're close enough to hear him, breathe, you're close enough to hear yourself die. And that is my point number two. I'd like to counter that by asking if you've ever actually kissed a girl. Well, I'm married so don't ceremony. I don't think she would allow that. I'm just saying what you're thinking. I can read your. I wonder if we're conflicting Ray with Godzilla guys. Probably does have trouble kissing some people melts their faces. That's the problem. The ray. Look acquitted for the record. There was not enough evidence to convict well. Here's the thing. So he's he has been defeated. He does come back. Remember who would win match. It's not about killing your upon necessarily. It's incapacitating him than way where you can safely walk away. Sure, there's been I think at least four Godzilla films where he's been incapacitated in a death like state before being where Bonsor safely swam away blew away or walked away before Godzilla regenerated or repower whatever a very short period of time. So if the next movie hang around a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. Voltron does that to God Zillah cut voltron order some food watches the Super Bowl, or what have you and takes his time. Godzilla finally regenerates comes back. I get it. But. Could be very hungry. There could be exciting deal at the food court. Very true. All right. Let me get to my point number to see I'm looking at this just from a purely combative standpoint, and God Zillah is no joke, super durable. He's like the alternate offense of lineman offense of tackle. Right. Who can do it? All fast powerful speeds. You're not getting to the quarterback if godzillas in your way, that's true unless your free safety is so fast and can get by your tackled to get to the quarterback. And that's where voltron really shines. So my point number two is actually called speed. So Ray how fast can Godzilla move and not just women, but you say on on land. But he is capable of supersonic speeds. I mean, he's shown it in movies before. But only when he needs to only win he wants to he can be a little lazy at times. He's like the the Ray of monsters. It'll be a little sloth full, but cornered very dangerous. So how fast you? Think voltron is. I've seen those wind up toys that they sell it. The ninety nine cent store I assume slightly faster than those. Yeah. Yeah. Wherever you go and buy groceries, you can see voltron, you know, your close you can see bullets Ron like wind up toys everything. But here's a deal voltron can actually travel faster than speed of light. In fact, each of the lions make try and can go fashion the speed of light. So it makes sense that when they combined to form voltron voltron can go just as fast probably fast or so what happens when you get by get hit by something that moves that fast. Let's talk physics. Well, first of all, good luck keeping faster tracking or being able to hit it. Secondly, here's where things get interesting fast or something can move the higher the force. It can hit you with basic physics, right? So force equals mass times. Acceleration. You take voltron? I think it's fifty five hundred ton mass accelerate to the speed of light. It will hit with an insane incalculable amount of power can Godzilla take a hit like that. I'll actually say God's could could. But could take ten hits like that? I don't. Think. So however, it's not just that bull. John can move that fast. That makes it dangerous godzillas at voltron can move at super speed while fighting so in other words, it's affected. Super speed is very high voltron gerbils. It is made us visibility evading attack as its primary defense. So as durable. It could stay there and Tang stuff, but they were smart enough or pal. The pilots pal spun up to say, you know, what let's just get out of the way I flip out of the way move whatever kind of hit and run, but it doesn't have super speed anywhere near the super high success rate of availing attacks. I'm talking about Godzilla does right because Ila just has more of a oblast you I'm gonna sit here and be a force of nature. If I need to move fast all gather, my resources to enable myself to do that to fly in a really weird behavior way or whatever. But speed is not godzillas game. Now, there is an interesting dialogue between Batman superman and wonder woman in an issue of the Justice league several years ago, and this was you'll see relevant it. It will be you'll see wonder woman states that she is faster than superman superman argues that he feels he's way faster the one that's even a joke. That wonder woman would even make that comparison one woman counter saying by that by saying, yeah. In a race, you may be faster when it comes to fighting combativity and be able to change tactics. And do what to do I'm faster than you are doing that to superman superman is actually kinda ticked off turns to Batman and says will you correct her? And that man says you don't want to hear the answer. This is right. This is the same kind of thing. Voltron combativity is not just faster than Godzilla. It's like voltron completely different league. Godzillas can have a hard really hard time hitting voltron. Now, remember in the last part of the voltron series on Netflix where the huge MEC the powered by the quintessence wherever's is way bigger than voltron is coming at them. Shooting with being so what is bowl trying doing to defend himself getting out of the way? It's super speed. That's it's main defense. That's God's gonna have a real issue. You know, hitting so voltron speed it'll be able to dodge God's visible tax. It'll be able to dodge Geisel's attachable its tail and dodge dillas radioactive breath as well like the blast. So hit and run strategy voltron. We'll have that clear speed advantage. That's my point number two and almost well executed on your part, James. Thank you. Yeah. You tried really really hard. And I wanna give you an A for effort. But I can't sorry. You talk about you talk about voltron speed and voltron without a doubt in combat potentially could be faster than God's now. You've seen a lot of voltron the legendary defender series when he's in a battle situation. Does he go to super speed faster than light and crashed into his Ponant to start every single battle? Just like God Zillah can do that if guys chooses to Marshall's resources voltron could do that. But he doesn't he often does not choose to do that. I mean, do you have an example of Altron going at the speed of light and crashing into his opponent to defeat him? Yes. It comes from the same book. You used to say that voltron offense would be ineffective against Godzilla. Well, unfortunately, I was using the truth. But that's fine. That's fine. The question. I would ask is. Yes, voltron is capable of these extreme heights. But oftentimes in battle. He doesn't go to the degree right away. He often starts with the very simple. The lasers the punching the kicking the flying around. Look at me. I'm in the sky. He doesn't do all the things you're saying very, very impressive and potentially could could defeat Godzilla. It's just not something that the five Paladins are likely to do especially to start a fight especially in the middle of fight. This is something they would have to be fighting for an exceedingly long period of time before they even decide. They know to take it to that degree. So if the question is if James scabs, he is in charge of voltron running the ship could voltron defeat Godzilla using those abilities. Absolutely. If the five actual people who are inside voltron are going to be attempting to use. No because they're not gonna come up with that stuff on the spot in the middle of a fight. They're going to be scattered. They're gonna be excited. They're going to be scared, and they're not going to even come up with all of these battle strategies that James did have you watched voltron seen enough? Can you spell voltron? Like, do you understand? Like, here's here's the thing. They Ashley depending on their opponent. The severity of their opponent will go there. We'll go to an extreme right away. Again. I'll use the later episodes and season eight of Netflix. We're bowl Tron is fighting the main characters MAC, who's a giant whatever. And in merged with their big us battleship they were going there and using super speed and their highest. Power most powerful weapons from the first moment. Right. So depends counter that with like Godzilla chance encounter was that was that a chance encounter or something that was built up over eight seasons? James? When Godzilla is in his twentieth film. He's had plenty of Balak sprints. What is Godzilla is first method of attack? Shouting deafening. Roar in hopes the opponent will go away. Oh, interesting. Okay. Gotcha. So and voltron might for all we know we do know voltron will not run away. If if something streams at all right now, listen, let's get to the turning point. So Pete, this is the point of the podcast or the show. I should say where you've heard both sides so far two points from Ray two points from me who do you have a head on points. Who do you think it's going to win? And what does he other side have to do to overcome the advantage of whomever's in the lead? We'll a couple of things I'm going to go back to one. There is this entire. I mean, we're talking voltron galactic scale show. That's that's we're fighting the whole galaxies involved here. Right. Correct. Any potential giant empire that might control everything whatever they've invented. We're going to see that in voltron, they'd be there or they're not to exist. So voltron is fighting something on galactic scale the best of the best from the galaxy. Now the best of the best from the goal. Empire. Harassing. They are that. They should they might be embarrassing. But they beaten everybody else, there's nobody bigger. So why aren't they hair because the whole universe is embarrassing in this world? At the same time God's elite at that level. Feels like AAA it feels I well, this is just one planet. We got a handful of monsters, and if you really could conquer space, then you'd build a bunch of mecca godzillas if they were really so great and they're expensive. They probably are expensive. I you don't have that kind of. I didn't figure that no one has like spirit Godzilla Godzilla part. I don't have the anime reality where you can just build voltron whenever you feel like it. There's no money. Apparently, we just don't have the money to be Godzilla. That's what it is. Infinite money. No one's beaten voltron. That's not a good argument. What I'm gonna go back to James the problem. I'm having one is that voltron does have many minds. It's not God's Ila makes up his mind. Always wants to do voltron is at the same. There's a human element here and a social element that we haven't just having tackled yet. It's funny. It's funny. You would say that because I'm about to tackle them raise railroads like a guy made out of fudge. I don't think he's gonna tackle anything. But that you meet I looked to listen to that. I say thank you, James. May I get to point number three and finish you once and for all sounds dirty. Please feel free. My point number three is simply stated you kill any part of the snake, and you defeat voltron as you just mentioned a moment ago. Voltron his five mines needing to coexist as one which means that you need to have five people on the same page any given time. Now, if Godzilla was fighting just the five lions, they're probably by themselves not going to be powerful enough. But he'd at least have to deal with five things coming at him from different ways all at once while he does fight monsters of much larger size multiples of them at the same time. That would be a difficult thing for him to to deal with he'd have to swat all five of them away in order to win the battle one voltron that's something that he can focus on. And I don't know that the five pilots the five Paladins are always necessarily going to be on the same page. What if I wanna shoot the missiles, but you wanna do the hyperspeed jump to dodge? Whatever. Well, now, we're new all over the place and a threat godzillas gonna cause a little bit of terror in the back of their minds. You don't see Godzilla not wet yourself all over the place. Wet your Paladin suit. The other point that I wanted to make right here is there are five Paladins. They're a team which means all Godzilla really has to do to win the battle in caused them to go away is kill one of them. He doesn't need to destroy all voltron. He needs to destroy an arm. Well, my goodness. Godzilla rips arms off of things all the time Godzilla knocks people down in an atomic heap last to the essence of Altron. Yeah. You're probably not going to disintegrate voltron, but atomic heat beam at one lion of fist of a lion. Which would cause it to explode from the missiles inside if one pallet and goes down the other four not gonna wanna fight this battle anymore, and they'll be like we can get away from Godzilla? Let's leave ourselves. Let's take ourselves out of the battle. Not only to mention if there is a city if there is a populous nearby. They're the legendary defenders their job is to protect humanity. Godzillas job to protect humanity. If there's a nearby city Godzilla shoots atomic heat beam at the city causing buildings to fall over and people to be in peril. Voltron could need to leave the battlefield and going protect those people. So when all else fails, if if Godzilla miraculously attempts atomic beam, and it doesn't work, and he doesn't kill, you know, a pinkie finger of one of Altron, which seems very likely to me. Oh, he has to do is just put people in peril in voltron goes. I gotta go. I'm roic garbage. The final point that I would like to make here is the real question of this battle to me and James might disagree. The laser sort is the only thing I'm worried about from poultry on the thing. He brings up an act three to win. It's day of sex. Mock in a basically, oh, I'm getting my butt handed to me better. Pull out the laser sword and beat another one great. The question is he's got to get up really close to use that laser sword. Right. I don't think that laser. Sort is twenty miles long the second that voltron has to get up close to use the laser sort and gut silly. You can forget about this fight Godzilla, stronger meaner more resilient and all he has to do is get within face range to blow away. I imagine when that galactic earth destroying beam was shot. It was shot from quite a great distance away. It wasn't shot from the muzzle to full Trump's face. And that's what God's will is going to be bringing to the table here. It's it's defeated many a robot before him, and I see no reason why so you have three separate things here. Voltron could remove himself due to people being in trouble, which silicon easily do I think we can agree. God's only got to kill one of the five of them in order to win this battle outright because the other four will lick their wounds and need to disappear mourned their dead friend because they are not monsters James and the third point is full trance. Gotta get really really close. And I just don't think he can take what God's will has to offer at that range and that is. Why Godzilla would defeat voltron Pete? I know you've got some comments on that. I have a couple of questions. I. Ray trying to provide any social commentary can you afford to TV? You know as long as they exist in other people's houses, you have everything you need to see the game. So that is a no, which makes me believe you also can't afford, you know, net flicks or internet service. I mean, I would assume that if they don't basic healthcare. I don't want it fair enough. Okay. So what you're talking about are really good examples of the original voltron, the nineteen eighties where he overly relies on the blazing sword to finish off everything. And there's a superior version you're referring to. It's fine. You can bring up your inferior voltron. That's cool. How do you know, you don't have a TV like how what is your point of reference here? I hear things can you even spell Godzilla. Like, you know, what I don't even think you know, what you're talking about. I know it begins with God. And God is the answer to everything is the answer like forty two. Everything starts with God. I don't know if it's the answer. I mean, that's what you know. Godzilla does literally start with guy. I mean, if you don't think that's the answer that I would ask you to ask the question again who Steve that's deep. That's exactly what we want in discussing something as important as Godzilla vs voltron. Okay. Before we go on. I understand why you'd want to, you know, not actually bring up your point James because I'm sure it's bearing. Let's talk about the allergy some more fair enough. What does 'cause you haven't got a prayer? Do you have any friends Ray? Like is there anyone when you watch the Super Bowl to? Oh, sorry. You don't have a TV when you are staring at the Super Bowl outside someone's house. How long does it take before? The police arrive is like a two minutes. I know better than to come up on me. They just as you from this. Okay. All right. So in all seriousness, we're using this term called tank like tanking a shot or taint. Can you describe or explain what tanking something needs taking means that there's a element coming in a tack of some kind, and you decide it's not powerful enough to actually hurt you or put you down at least? So you decide the best course of action in the battle is to take that damage because it would put you in a position to counterattack effectively and feature opponent vehicle. Okay. Next question is Godzilla hero or villain. That depends on who you ask. I'm asking you in my mind. Everyone is a hero in their own way. James? Pete is God Zillah a hero or a villain. I'm gonna go full game of thrones on that question because God's will is good sometimes terrible other times. And that's what it is. And that's he's fighting. On the morals might be a little loose. Depends who got Sylla's fighting four really friend. Sometimes is okay. I think there have been enough examples of God Zillah actually trying to protect humanity against another. That's that's the whole point. He's not a clear cut Dylan, oh, not necessarily gonna destroy humans just for the fun of it. But he does often do that as well. Sure. When you fall on things and on things is a dangerous thing for people fair enough. All right. In the in the legendary this the voltron series on Netflix. How often when voltron was formed did an arm come off or leg come off or when attacked? That's that's what I'm trying to. Did he fight God's ill in that series? Because it would happen. Once is he answered your question. That's true. How how did you got do in voltron in the nineteen fifty series of the Godzilla movies? He was so powerful voltron didn't even show his face. That's right guys got killed very quickly in voltron. Like, I don't even I missed it. I'm just gonna stay with actor. Okay. Let me just gets my Altima points point number three. And this is a cheap way to win who would win fight Godzilla. Is that awesome that powerful and raise points are that bad. So I'm gonna actually go ahead and say it, it's battlefield removal time. Okay. So voltron this is really cheap. I'm gonna do it. Anyway, we'll try and has three ways to remove Godzilla from the field of battle number one voltron can grab Godzilla fly off into space and leave them. There was like see us load away. That's it. Right. And then come back down a road. It's going to take awhile for God's to get back there. I mean, it just will. Now, this method has been successfully used against God's Zillah many times Godzilla King Kong in earlier movie and King Kong was able to get Godzilla affront bear hug king Adora was able to pick up Godzilla and playoff with them. My favorite name of all the monsters destroy did the same thing, but also drop Godzilla onto a highly explosive area in some facility, that's one of the ways guys died. Allegedly it fair enough if these monsters able to grab Godzilla never mind fly him off and drop them to his doom. What do you think voltron can do who again can move faster in flight super speeds, grabbing Zillow flame off into space and leave employing? There is really not out of the question. He's done that before other max again in the Netflix series now method number two voltron can kind of tell aboard by opening portals. Remember uses the quintessence field in opens up to different parts of the galaxy. So in the Netflix series, they create portals they ply through them, and these these Pearl take him to different parts of the universe. Or what have you why convulse on simply make one of these portals open it and simply push Godzilla into it or trick into going into by luring him in and simply get out really quick. At super speed includes a portal thereby stranding Godzilla away from the field of battle right in some distant galaxy. Now, there's a third method, and that's entered dimensional travel. And this is similar to point number two. Except the portal goes to another dimension. That's something bowl Tron. Again. The legendary. Senator in the Netflix series can do evidence during the later seasons of the series. He opens up this portal to a different reality different dimensions chasing, the main villain through each different dimension trying to chase her down. Why couldn't voltron simply grab Godzilla in strand him and other dimension reality or open a portal directly underneath Godzilla standing Godzilla drop through it. And then kind of they're gone. That's pretty tough counter. You're right. I mean, there's a thick skin and atomic. That's that's tough to counter. Exactly. And again, it's cheap. Yeah. It is totally cheap. And again, these three methods about till removal are all available in case any of the other methods to battle Godzilla, don't work. So with both Ron's I Tyler powerful weaponry, durability attacks signed to destroy a planet insane super speed both and travel and in combat and its ability to move God's from the field of battle invaders ways. I just don't see a way that Godzilla can people, and that's my final point. So bless your heart. Thank you. Yes. Those are things that the theoretical voltron the straw, man. Voltron could do, but it's not exactly the way. Again, he fights voltron doesn't walk up to every person and be like well into defeat this goal really emperor ship. I'm just going to open a pocket dimension throw them in there. I'm just gonna do it fifty times in a row. This is the best show on TV issues, not this attack. Actually makes actually what he did voltron. Did how many times like why isn't that the first move every time well because they use portals travel and as a way to chase down someone who's jumping from dimension a dimension. But not just to get rid of some guy. You don't like or like throw your trash cringe? I mean, yeah, I have a twinkie rapper up dimensional portal at somebody else's problem. Now the way might not surprise. It's what I would do. That's not what Volterra do James. And this is the biggest flaw in your argument is all of those things are mighty and powerful in your right? Opening trans dimensional portal under God Zillah would be away that voltron could defeat him the five Paladins. Our relic. They are noble. They're not going to again, if James gab sie is the one operating voltron. I don't have a chance here. I walk away after point one. I can't win James. You've got all the answers, but we're dealing with five people who their whole job is to protect people. Their whole job is to be the galaxy defenders they don't do things on the cheap at the beginning of a battle. I think there's a flaw in that because you can just open a portal and drop codes off on deserted island hurt anybody's gonna have a really good time. Like, they don't really gonna not the feel bad about that. This is not about killing or even surly hurting your opponent. It's incapacity. You're not wrong. It's just not an approach that they would take. So it's strong argument. You know, what I gotta agree with you Ray. I'm not wrong. You're absolutely right. All right. So so that last point in the last point that I'll make right here is many of these things you said, why doesn't he just grab Godzilla and fly him up in his face? And that's the battlefield removal tactic. I absolutely. Think voltron would attempt, but to my point number three the second that voltron gets close enough to grab Godzilla to fly into space, which is what according to James that would be the most likely thing that he would do their roasted the atomic keep last on the face. This range is going to destroy voltron or at least enough to make him go away. Well, there's two things we haven't really talked about yet. We talked about the cold blast that Tron can do and the atomic ref, and we just haven't heard which one of those winds. Let's head to head those two powers. They can't voltron can also cloak become invisible. And that's thanks to Pige doing that. And put that into Ron's defense Godzilla has ignition so healing visible. I know where you're King Kong somehow without the ability to fly lumbers up to God zeal in front of them and put them in a bear hug, and then does what he does and throws them around. It was taking pity on poor King Kong. The American writers. They just needed a win. And gosh, I'm so how many how many people taking pity on you Ray, right? Because that still doesn't that still count not a day in my life, James gaps that doesn't go by that you aren't thankful for people taking pity on. I understand. But here's the thing to prove the about field removal, and I think it was the very last episode of voltron when he had to attach himself to the huge ship, and they add to become like the big he actually had to take the shipping with him into the other dimension right into the other reality. So there is that example, him doing that to something way bigger than himself and going through in space was that they did it in Spain. They did do it in space. Cool. No. But he has actually teleported they do teleport in an atmosphere. So we're fighting in space. Now, I'm sorry. Even though godzillas not need air to survive. He's not gonna you're saying I can't can't do well in space. He's limited. I would say if that's the battle, which isn't always that's not. Actually the battle were arguing right now, we're not arguing that they would fight in space. So anything that he can do to ships in space where there is no gravity where everything is different. Probably don't apply. Probably probably. Okay. All right. We've gone back and forth enough. We have we need we need not nearly enough for my taste. I think he's drunk again. I'm sorry. So Pete give us give us your wisdom. Here. Tell us who wins this Titanic battle. There's so many different points here. And I think the biggest for me the biggest thing we're seeing full run really does have some weaknesses and being five people and in having there's an inner conflict, there's a little inner conflict and voltron what we wanna do. How do we want to save? How do we wanna fight? What are we going to do next? And cause is a streetfighter in just goes with its instinct goes with his gut voltron calculating in military in. Well, all right. They're both different schools to go at it. But I mean almost cancels out because both so good at what they do. So really, it comes down to Godzilla doesn't have the same versatility powers and voltron doesn't have that singlemindedness and that back and forth. But I think in the end Ray it's coming back to something. You started out with in the very beginning of this. You said numbers are immaterial. And there are five ultra guys. But you know, what they're one person they're five characters, but they're one person. So I'm giving this voltron. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. This is clearly the upset of the century this or millennia if we go voltron future. How dare you insult the wisdom of Pete his decision making the Moses, and and Jesus combination of intelligence, you have Justice splayed. I don't know how to describe it. I like your decisions what I'm saying. This. This is insane. I really thought that you brought some great points. Ray? I know, and this is really cool. This is raised very first who would win battle. Well. Yeah. I mean, he did as well as you would expect for someone who was coming to their first who would win battles down Pete. Appreciate it returning. My. Forty nine fight. Yeah. So this is close. All right. So you did a great job. Thank you for coming in and being a month later on this episode police Ella room where they can find you. And what you do in your amazing podcasts. Thanks, so. Yeah. I'm the host of final drafts right on podcast, and you can find us at final draft Inc. And tweet to us and at the same time, you can just go to podcast doubt, final draft dot com and grab podcast there. But we're also on I tunes right on by final draft and grab us anywhere. You like subscribe a rating, we love it. Happy to entertain new with wherever you want to hear. I love it. It is a great podcast, by the way. Ray again, great job here. First time all joking aside. You were phenomenal great character. Everything a+ for your performance surfed. Yeah. Please tell our listeners where they can find you James. Thank you very much for all. The kind words. They mean a lot to me. I'm sure you can find me online at Twitter, I'm at almighty Ray. And that's where you can find my musings about life football. The world. You can also listen to my other podcast knowing half the podcast the GI Joe recap show. They can be found on Twitter at GI, Joe podcast or Facebook dot com slash knowing is half the podcast. We watch GI Joe, but also other cartoons of the eighties nineties a little spread around the edges around that. And we take a fun retro look at older titles and have a good time with them recapping specific episodes and having a blast with animating. I love it. You can find me Posey my patented question of the day on Twitter at James Gabby. And check out the who would win website at WWW dot who would win show dot com to access all of our podcast episodes as well to check out some great articles. And don't forget to check out the who'd win a show on patriot where we have some amazing rewards for patrons on behalf of myself, gray and all the mazing through our moderator everyone. It makes it show. What it is. Thank you. Once again for listening to another episode of who would win will see next time.

Godzilla I. Ray James Gav Z voltron Dalla Sandro Pete Netflix Godzilla Paladins lions Godzilla Zillah Tokyo Zillow godzillas Vanessa Taylor Keith Lance Pige Ron Azeri
Listener Stories: Vol. 45

And That's Why We Drink

1:01:38 hr | 5 months ago

Listener Stories: Vol. 45

"Hi Welcome to. October. First, Spooky seasons socially begun we're talking about sunshine. Halloween time I went to do this at the beginning, but I got stuck talking about sunshine again I meant to say. No we. Got About I think my biggest fear is that I'm going to forget to do it around the holidays. You signed yourself like sporadic the whole year like I. Better Fuck I remember to like still email me about certain things that I've said in the like remind me around Christmas time and I got a bunch of emails recently that we're like I know it's July but. I'm not going to remember you need to tell me in December I'm very excited for every November basically and December post Christmas episode. I'm like the curing up with my Halloween rendition. So if you like that I. I again gave me the right chills. Oh God. Yeah. also for you to decide what I meant that. Take it for what you will. I also live a beautiful autumn. No Candle It's called falling leaves are loving deans upto Tom no because I can't say it also tunnel like Sir Thomas. that. Didn't help what are you talking about? Okay I can't do this. You can't is that is that a children's book empathy it is too early for this and by early I mean it's five o'clock. Here it is I have enough from the line which the wardrobe. Oh, I never watched that it was played by. Rene was weirdly obsessed with him and it became sounds like a children's book about someone who's hungry like who's like a like a royal like sir? Thomas and his tongue. Am I wrong he yes, you are. He has. I am Sir Thomas That's actually what I'm trying to get. His race is a fawn. He's like a half human. Half Dear, I think sure a phone is a deer ray and I, guess I can't. I'm like I'm I'm just I. It's James mcevoy. I thought he was like a Centaur or something. Yeah. Looks kind like that. He's just like a really graceful one. Does it show up probably not. It's probably just chuckle by phone next to me if you text me. Okay. Good. I'll do that To our group chat because I can't find the time to find your text only. So he was going to, he was gonna be like what is going on that. You. Oh. Oh. That's why I'm sorry. Can you say that he's automall? SCAR. Holding, a big tamale, he's A. Special, package well okay. I'm not kidding is unto biggest Tamale. No I literally think it's just a special PLO. I'm still hooked on Sir. Thomas just always being hungry listen rene was like obsessed with him and it became a problem in our friendship. So second my brain also eva hearted the image. So I think we're all in a good place. Okay. Well, someone can you please photoshop my face on this be but also make this package Tamale because that's the Thomas. Sunday. And make her feel really just distraught about her childhood. Anyway, you SORTA Tom Nolan. That really took us for a ride. So let's avoid talking about seasons Let's do it. Let's talk instead about the scary scary Halloween Stories Eva picked out for us to let's I'm very excited about the. So by the way snaps Riva across the globe what's all dual drink for Eva for picking these? Holding hands across America and so. Yeah. Apparently, there's not a theme to this. The theme is just General Spooky so I'm very excited that. She was very excited about the series of stories in particular. So I'm ready I'm squash stoked because I go first and the first phrase that I see. I, mean, this definitely has a lot of, would we say buzz buzz words buzzwords has the M buzzwords yeah I read the first sentence and I was like, Oh, I'm in. So this is from. Danielle Okay Danielle goes by us a she her pronounce. Thank you for normalizing, pronounce and. The title to this is Toronto Film Industry Haunting so I'm renew it really is like a combination of all of your personality traits in one will get ready for this. The first sentences a prop master in Toronto Canada. And I was like. How you doing, you're like me too now I guess I guess now. and. For those of you who don't know what a prop master is, is the person who handles all the props on movie sets Okay I'm a prop master in Toronto. Canada I've been listening for years and I'm so excited to ride for the first time. This is a bit of a ghostly as well as a really funny coincidence Logan and a few years ago. It was working on a film that was filming in Hamilton Ontario about forty five minutes away. From Toronto, we were filming in a two hundred year old wine cellar Oh hell. Yeah. Buzzword for Christine I've always been terrified a ghost, but I have never had a personal experience in thought that when I did I wouldn't be able to handle how. Scared I was and when I first walked into this building, I instantly knew it was haunted but didn't feel scared Ernie negative energy This building was one story above the ground but had three levels of basements that sounds like, oh, you're i. mean that's a haunted mansion right there. Oh my it's like, Oh, we have four floors. Three of them are basements all. Three of them are basement percent of our house basements one hundred percent of our house, just like Undergrad like eighty, thousand leagues under the suppose. I don't maybe we find out more about that. Hang on basement. I was the only one in the building for the first few hours and they had to prep it for filming I had to board up some windows to make even greater than it already was Yikes. Right. So I had a couple of basic tools with me in a room that was probably a room those probably twelve by twelve feet side note it was October, which gets pretty damn. Cold non-terrorist. So I had a winter coat on and the first thing I notice most in this room was that while I was working there would be some cold spots where I could see my breath like it was negative forty Celsius Woo Shit but two feet over in the same lighting and with without the temperature changing I could I couldn't see it. So there's like massive cold spots. The next thing that happened throughout the day was specifically to my tape measure. I would set it down on a table, turn around and do some work and come back to find it across the room on a stool or another surface. Okay. Thank you moving objects is another thing that creeps me the hell out it freaks me out because it's like okay. So you're strong enough I don't even the worst part is I've I never know is it being picked up in lava? Jan Semi teleporting, but see my. Purse which is which is worse because you're right because it's like you never see it happen. Well, I guess sometimes you do. But typically like if it disappears, you never see it happened. So it's like maybe it literally just puff. Appears tomorrow visit s so creepy I feel like that makes it crappier because I feel like if it's getting lifted and levitating then I'm like, okay, it's at least in this physical world. Yes. Yes. Like the physics matchup I feel like then it becomes quantum related and I'm like we're getting some heavy shit it it. If all of a sudden teleport's than that proves that like this is not the only like string theory is really gross also like. And it's unraveling yes and. No See. Okay. So then the next thing was extra unsettling. Oh, great I would walk into a small room and it would be it would absolutely reek of ammonia like one hundred cats just use it as a litterbox who will. meow. meow I would walk into the same room a few minutes later in the smell be totally gone and you would find it in a different room. Woah I hate that. the next creepy thing happened in cells that were made from a previous movie on the bottom basement level. So there was already an old movie set a liberal jailed and here to super There was one lightbulb we for some reason could not control in any way shape or form it would just turn off for an hour then turn on for a bit. There was no pattern or flicker like it was just poorly connected wire. The way it turned on an off was very deliberate seemed, and finally on the second last day of Filming I was walking down these stairs and I'm assuming. That I'm assuming were built when the whole building was. So like two hundred year old stairs I was five stairs from the bottom and carrying some props and suddenly the Stair Baroque. Me and I fell down the rest of the stairs. Oh, no everyone was convinced it was a ghost but in that moment I didn't feel any militias energy nothing touch touch me or pushed me I think it very well could have just been the assembly a very old set of stairs but then again, I also like to pretend that like noah goes pushed through stairs. I Like I get it because I'm so clumsy. I. Fall Down the stairs time I wish I could use a ghost as an excuse. I would love to like just accidentally trump and be like the ghosts again come on all I. Mean we probably already do that maybe we should just commit. Forces me dedicated to our lies. I was excited to have my first paranormal experience and thrilled it wasn't going to keep me awake for months but I'm also happy to not have another. Well, amen to that unrelated to this particular story I was driving home late late at night from Hamilton it's where we fill most of on the Ontario Film and TV I was listening to the episode about the Poltergeist Curse and when you talked about the thousand thirteen reboot and mentioned the directors accommodations that and how they became haunted. That was in Hamilton I was absolutely horrified for the rest of my drive home. Thank you for keeping things spooky I'm so excited to finally be able to write in from Danielle. ooh, that's so cool. Very Fun. That's like that is very Halloween haunted movie set that is cursed. You know what? I mean yeah. Literally I've never heard of a three basement home. That's all. Yeah. That's scary like if you are a ghost that's the Buddhist flag and the whole like like. Sweet. Life of ghosts and poltergeists or whatever you live in a in a haunted mansion with one basement. Okay. Well, know who's better here you know. Remind me not to come over to your place also think hairs. Is, that is a lot of floor Garros part of it. All got some Nice gluts anyway. And I'm very excited about our new sponsor and I think you are to it Jenny. Kane Jenny Canes Recipe for home and Wardrobe is combined one part effortless style with two parts comfort and a dash of refined simplicity mix well, in Serbia round and we need all of the above in measure. So I'm very thankful that they've entered our lives. I'm super excited. About them I recently just got a sweater from Emma got the fishermen sweater. I do okay. First of all, I've never had anything that nice and comfy before Lens I pet it I oh, I, put it on the second I got I, got to my apartment and I made RJ taken arm and allison taken arm and I went stroke me I like you. Got Weird, I was like this is the comfy cozy EST thing. I've ever owned and I want you to be jealous of it and they were. So I think they probably are Basically, it's almost pretty much starting sweater season here Cincinnati and I haven't had sweater season in real like fall weather. Weather Sweat. So I am very excited to finally wear my beautiful sweater and look like I'm really simple like a sophisticated. Oh. Yeah. Well, obviously, you're the most sophisticated you've ever been whenever you wear something from them. So Jenny Cain believes in finding your version of the daily uniform elevated pieces that make getting dressed the simplest part of your routine from wardrobe essentials to everything that makes your space feel like home. You'll find timeless pieces designed to stand the test of time. Yes and as we said, we got the beautiful fisherman's sweaters in Kashmir, which is like you know that's why we suddenly feel so sophisticated never. Like that before and who it's so beautiful loving every second of it. Yeah. It's. It's basically inspired by the national effortless aesthetic of California living, and now I can take that here to Cincinnati and be like, Oh, I'm from California don't worry about it. They have signature pieces to in a mule, which is leather Suede cheerleading an more and there's also fishermen cocoon which are Kashmir cotton. So like I mean, there's quite a range. Yeah. Year round anything you need anything you need make getting dressed the easiest part of your routine at Jenny Kane Dot Com and get twenty percent off your first order when you use code drink at checkout that's J. E. N. N. I K. A. Y. E. DOT com. Promo Code. Drink. I have a secret that I'm going to tell only you and I know, no one else will know if you say. Oh my gosh. Listen Up to my secret and it's that I now get pretty much all of my household and grocery items at thrive market up wait a minute hang on. That's so funny because my secret that I've been wanting to tell you is I also know and I already knew year secret I caught you because we share an apartment together and I also know that there's a lot of the right park and stuff over there. Okay. Well, you can just pretend like you're excited by my secret even though clearly I'm not. GonNa it thrive market is an online membership based market on a mission to make healthy living easy affordable for everyone you can enjoy guaranteed savings and members only prices. In fact, thrive market members save an average of thirty two dollars on every order and it's true I. It's like affordable and you don't deliver your house and they have everything. I Buy I buy the cat food cat food I buy dog food I buy my food. I, buy wind clean wine. It's like everything I possibly need in one box. It's I mean it's. Such a deal. It's literally like its grocery shopping but like you don't have to leave your home, it's I mean, you can just go online pick all of your things you don't leave your couch. You know I love not leaving my couch and and all of a sudden all these wonderful products are next to thrive. Market has a the best selection of high-quality healthy and sustainable products online. You can buy thousands of wholesome food and beauty products curated just for members and you can find anything that you need from organic and essential groceries to clean beauty to save supplements and nontoxic home and plus. Meets plus ethical meets sustainable seafood clean wind, which I'm sure Christine has cleared out of inventory many many and all their products again are ethically sourced so like you can feel good about all of your purchases, exactly they have seventy plus diets that you can search by. So whether you're like Kito Paleo Gluten free, Vegan they've BPA free products, etc. You skip the store, skip the lines and you get exactly what you're looking for. So go to thrive market dot com slash drink join today, and you'll get a free gift of your choosing up to twenty four in value. That's T. H. I. V. E.. Market Dot com slash during star your risk free membership, and get a free gift today. THRIVE MARKET DOT com. Drink. Thank you, Danielle. With gluts, wait a minute. That's our new workout tapes Tim Tim Tim. Okay this was sent in by Kiana. Okay. Uses she her pronounce. Thank you Kiana. First of all help it's called death creepy dolls and a distasteful ghost. Okay. Okay, okay let's go. Let's crack into it. I. Haven't been well first of all hallows, Spooky Pals, pups, and petrified fruits. I am aggressively team Limo Kado Haiti W okay and that's a Hashtag the ICIER. Lucado. Kado. I have nothing to say. I've been wanting to write in for a long time I have extensive experience with the paranormal and now seemed like as good a time as any the story has a bit of both true crime, an paranormal activity which I know you love. So let's crack into it. I was a junior high school back in two thousand, twelve living in Tempe. Arizona, we lived in a town home near Asu. My Dad had been back from a hospital for maybe two days. His only kidney had started to fail, but they were able to get it working again, my mom received a phone call from a neighbor saying she saw her house on the news and there was a dead guy out front what Oh my God what My mom worked at my high school. So she was able to find me and my best friend quickly sinus out and take a straight home. Wait don't go home. There's a dead guy out front I would be. Anywhere. Else. My mom rushed upstairs to find my dad passed out in bed. Oh, they thought maybe it was their dad. Maybe. It wasn't. It was dad known laying in the grass? No No. 'cause because there. was. Maybe they. Buy like maybe the man was identified on the news. Everyone's probably like Duh, what the hell are you thinking? Yes I got IT I. We're caught him. And Thought Your Dad was laying in the lawn for fun I. Guess Until The News Show, it sounds like a dad thing to do to like. To lie on the sidewalk and be like, I'm tanning and my jeans like. You get to be the world's coolest does. Don't Mind Funchal they're just. Just. Hannigan my flannel jeans I can't with this. Okay. Who I get it now so we thought it was that's why said don't go home I thought it was like a stranger that was. You know what I mean? Okay Gotcha. Sorry. So my mom rushed upstairs to find my dad passed out in bed from the mets he was on, but thankfully alive And being the Morbid Weirdos. We are open the front window and push our faces up to the screen to see the dead body. They had taken the body already but we watched him clean up. Oh God blood and chunks of brain. What happened in your? Yard. We later found out what happened in our yard. Two guys one being the next neighbor were fighting over the same girl. So the other guy showed up with a gun at my neighbor's house shot said neighbor who ran through the house to the back door before collapsing then killed himself on the front porch just mere steps from my front door Oh holy crap. Unfortunately, the old lady next door on the other side passed away around the same time as well. So now we're at three deaths and that's when my dolls got weird. Okay. Back. To okay. I wasn't prepared for that. Okay. The Day Newmont of the story. The chefs if you will uh-huh. I'd collected porcelain dolls. That's your first mistake I'd collected porcelain dolls since roughly age four and had a waist high bookshelf filled with them. At this point the bookshop was right next to my bed and I would arrange every dull to face at a forty five degree angle away from my bed every night before I went to sleep. I. Liked them all uniform but I also didn't want them watching me sleep. You know I mean like Yeah Ray I guess I, get it I mean we're already Years further into this than I would be, which is not owning them to begin with but I. Can Angle. Them however you want. Okay. Okay let's see after the murder suicide next door one particular doll dark-haired bride that was on the edge closest to my bed would move I'd Oh my God I digest all of them before bed than wake up the next morning to see her facing me with one foot forward like she was trying to step off the edge of the bookshelf I literally have like crazy goose. Camp, from us this is so every night like especially, if you do is every night, you arrange them a certain way, and then all of a sudden one starts turning around. Yeah. Like if anything you would you know your dolls better than most if you're like, yeah putting them in a very specific way and then they're like Yo like they're kicking one is like defying you. Okay, let's see. I'm a big believer of the paranormal, but I try to be logical I about any experience. So I asked my parents and my two brothers Sorry. So I asked my parents, two brothers about it. None of them had touched the dolls because they knew I would straight back anyone who did I was very protective over them since a lot of them were given to be my to me by my great grandma before she passed away. So they were the only things I have left from her and now I'm an asshole. We're. Keeping like don't go home. There's a dead guy, and then it's like maybe as my dad and I'm like, Shits Dolls. spinoff show just be called like step one open mouth to and yeah. Three apologized profusely. Drink I guess. Don't be shocked happens again. Yeah. Then started all over. Yeah. Repeat the process. I still didn't quite believe someone wasn't messing with me but that one doll unfailingly would be facing me every morning my nightmares which I've had since I was a kid started coming back during this time and I started seeing shadow people more often got him my own head about it and freak myself out even more. So I decided to pack up all the dolls thinking it was all connected somehow call. Yep It's twenty twenty now and I haven't touched that box since I recently brought it up to my mom again and she swears that no one was moving that doll. There's too much weird shit happening all the time for it to be anything but paranormal. And a little side note about the neighbors that moved in after the murder suicide it was October of the same year and the new neighbors were out decorating for Halloween when my mom and I started our nightly walk returned home. They hung a large ghost over their front door right above where the body was found. We weren't sure if they were aware of the suicide that had taken place there half a year before, but we were too uncomfortable to bring it up to them. So the distasteful hung ghost stayed out. Oh My. Oh, it says, oh, well, UK's it says if this happened get picked for the September listener stories, it's my birthday month. So happy belated. Reading in September. Technically. So maybe a birthday today for all we know Happy Birthday you guys are the greatest keep making killer episodes and happy Spooky Season Wow I'm like I'm like that too, and then you imagine coming home and they're like look at our cute ghosts it's hanging right above this weird stain on front porch. It's like, oh No Oh. Great. Well, thank you. Also, keep those dolls in that box and never don't ever open that or senators e be he probably knows what to us. Actually Senators E. B before you sir. Thank you. Kiana So this next story is from Jesse. Selena. She her pronounce. Thank you for. Normalizing. And the subject line is bootlegging ghosts in a liquor store. ooh, there's her buzzwords. Christine the afterlife. Okay. So this is. hello there I have recently started listening to the podcast and figured you guys would enjoy my ghostly experience the most especially with Halloween right around the corner. He Yeah since I was a kid, I've always had paranormal experiences from dreaming about my grandfather's death the night he died to a possible alien abduction but over anything I could prove to people until twenty eighteen. ooh. Oh, my goodness, and also by the way in the subject line I, don't think we're. there. So there's a link we can look at later but I'll Yvette linked the video and wants to said, she wants to put it. Okay in the in if we can. If if they give us permission, she said we should put it in the M. Okay. Call. But also in the subject line, it does say that there's video with the. So that's probably what the proof what she means by proof. Okay. Okay. Cool. We'll. Then we'll ask Eve is going to ask to see if they'll let us put it in the even texted story or the video. Thank you Eva Perfect I. I kinda hate that you move Sir Thomas Out of the screen I was kind of looking at that. But I guess thanks for the link Christine was just pretending Thomas was telling her all these stories. Instead of you just put his face over you and just like talk. Okay so listen Tom Nash Okay. I was previously working in a liquor store in a very small suburban city in Central Alberta? Another Canadian I. Wait I. Think there was a theme that was growing here, HIBA The city has quite a bit of history but most notably, it was built for as a for trading in a police fort in eighteen hundreds My work was built around one hundred yards in front of where the remains of the fort in jail use to stand in the historic downtown. Wow. When I started working there as a young nineteen year old with no friends I would have to close by myself and always got the most eerie feeling when the store was empty I swore I'd say Spurs these shadow figures behind the shelves and the occasional sound of someone lightly walking but I would rationalize it in as my imagination playing tricks on me because I was nervous about being alone. Fair. fast forward a couple of years I was now managing the liquor store. And I would have to open it by myself. The shadow figures and noises never stopped just because it was daylight and things actually started to get a bit more active possibly because the assistant manager and I were now acknowledging that they were there. UH, so being more open to it. Okay. Gotcha giving them power giving them that energy. So she would tell me the manager. She would tell me about the man she saw walking behind the shelves of our warehouse. But when she went back there to tell him that this was for staff only no one was. Or the voices that she heard having a whispered conversation to each other before the store was open, I would tell her about the shadows of feet walking by my office door. So you can like see shadows of new car that's very not okay and the smell of rotten meat that would come and go ha very demonic and the store alarms being triggered almost nightly Bhai nothing. Yes you're right this sounds demonic. Yeah. I. Always had a strong feeling that one of the ghost haunting my workplace was. Florence Sandro. Share me too. Yeah. That's what I think to miss flow as they say. She was a local bootlegger during prohibition and only and the only woman to be hanged for murder Alberta what that's a pretty rely it is and also I like that name Florence and I, I, don't know if anyone else likes that name but I think it's a cool name I like Sandro. That's pretty fun named Dad's also. I. E. Even printed out a picture of her to hang in the office to see if that would affect the activity. That's pretty smart. That's such. A great idea. That's a great idea. We am. Let's. Let's ourselves. Can I put people who use please you can do it everyone your own house, but do not put it in the apartment that we share runt we. DIED air. We know who died in here in my house. So do whatever you want on the other side of the country Christine. Okay one day in September I was. But also by the way like this, really that was such a genius move was so smart. So smart I love that maybe that's why I don't ever see my grandpa. He's like where the fuck is a picture of me, I'm waiting for my oil portrait above the Mantel it probably wouldn't hurt okay. One number I was on my lunch break and killing time by reading dear David, which is an episode that we've covered. Helje. And, that creepy online story by Adam ls the story sent shivers my spine and I was fully invested in it. When I thought, I heard the plastic tupperware live my lunch scrape across the desk. A as always I brush it off as my imagination trying to scare me because I was reading scary story at which by the way it is a very scary story and if you're invested in reading it, you will get creeped out. It will like it really will get in your head. It convince me there were like things in the ceiling and God. When I told my assistant manager a few days later she said, well, did you check the cameras? Genius. This is like the goes hunting duo we need. These are people are smart very wise. I completely forgot about the camera setup in the office because it was mainly used by head office to spy on the staff ll. Sure. Enough. When I checked back, you could see the back lead move up the desk and my head whip around to look at it Oh. My Gosh. You can I think that's the video that we're going. Is this where I watch it right now sure it to. Okay. Let's watch together. Click on it. Okay clicking it I'm sorry my volume down I don't accidentally. Okay okay here you. Holy, Shit. Wow, okay. So That for sure moved. No? No, no, no no okay is repeated. Well. Ghost Lhasa goes. Look at. Are you video if If she agrees if just agrees to that yes justin. Okay man also, if she agrees her username is underscored C. K.. O. K. A. Y.. So if if and if for those of you who are just listening through audio right now, basically, it's exactly what we just. So it's a camera showing the an angle of her at her desk and her tupperware is pretty much right in the center of the shot and you can see it screwed up up the counter by itself, and she like whips our head around at. The exact moment that she would have heard it. Okay. I think it's also creepy because I always talk about like how much energy does it take for ghosts to like do something I wonder if like Oh tupperware lid is really light and like maybe they had enough force to move a little bit to get her attention think of like the earlier story we talked about with the tape measure like. Around it's like okay well, if it's not moving inter dimensional iwatake Elaine. If, it's not movingly through different worlds which is. A totally different type of fear if it's just being picked up and moved, that's like how strong was that spirit a, that's a heaviest eight measure versus the Tupperware load. Like versus moving tupperware or maybe it's because when you're not looking May. Cause I feel like when things get moved really far. It's usually when you're not looking right but you don't typically see it fly across the entire house. Over time, it's like going to the gym and you working out in gaining muscle like I wonder if over time. You get stronger and therefore your energy is able to lift heavier things but also it seems like in the video that Jesulin us. It looks lake because it was so close like they wanted her attention like it was right next to her. Like they could've moved anything in that room and they picked the thing. Right next to her. Okay. Standing behind her okay. Everyone was like you was standing like standing out her shoulder and just kind of went boop boop. Yeah Okay to this, imagine that happening as reading David Yeah. It's actually a really good point and I'm with her I would've convinced myself. It was just in my head to like spare my sanity I think to this day it's not something anyone it's not something I've shown. Anyone that I've been able to, that's been able to explain it. Sorry. The sentence was a little weird there but has never been able to show anyone and that has been able to give her an explanation. It has been sitting in the same spot for almost an hour or it had been sitting in the same spot for almost an hour before it moved and nothing I, put their ever. Did it again? It's. It's it's. Still gives me goosebumps when I watch it and since that incident and as dramatic has happened besides the usual shadows and sounds but we did notice that they were more active in. September. which is when Florence was murdered by the police in nineteen two. Wow we also We did also have a delivery driver ask if the place is haunted because he had seen a figure crouching in the back corner when he was unloading. No thank you SIA. A guy that's horrifying. In, Marta actually lost my job. So I don't have any more work go stores unfortunately I'm now waiting to go back to university in. January and trying to find a job I can do from home in the meantime all binge listening to, and that's where we drink and watching ghost adventures Thanks for the weekly reminder that Sunday and making me feel like I'm not. So alone in my apartment. Sorry if this was a little long but I went to include much. No perfect. This was loud. And Creepy, Omega. Thank you so much for that and for horrify me. Yeah. How frightening? Is there something interfering with your happiness or a is preventing you from achieving your goals? If so better help is there for you just like it's been there for two of us it's right I honestly have had a hard time. A shock for everyone to hear that quarantine has been somewhat difficult. But yeah, better is so just like the best service I'm like, thank God we live in a time where this is a service that's available to us Ruez it. It really is just like it's it's just such a huge help better. Needs match you with your own licensed professional therapist I'm it's not a crisis line it isn't self-help. It's actual actual professional counseling done securely online and you can start communicating and under forty eight hours. So you don't wait to get an appointment somewhere. You don't have to leave the house to like sit in the waiting room it's it's really a great service and the services available for clients worldwide. So no matter. Where you are better better can be there for you. You can log into your account anytime and send a message to your counselor, and you'll get a timely offer response plus you can schedule weekly video or phone session. So you won't ever have to sit in an uncomfortable waiting room hike with traditional therapy. I know one of the most awkward things I wouldn't say it was terrible but the most awkward things about. Traditional counseling was just sitting in a room with a bunch of other people being what is going on with you. So it's GONNA be able to do it literally from your bed just there and you know if you've got if you've got something you WanNa talk about you can do especially on a time line that works for you I know a lot of people are working from home and just kind of hard to squeeze that square eropean in general and so nowadays it's so much easier to be able to do it on a schedule that works best for you. So visit better help dot com slash drink that's. Better H. E. L. P. and join the over one million people taking charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional in fact so many people have been using better help that they're recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states so good for them and So there's a special offer for that's what we drink listeners where you get ten percent off your first month at better help dot com slash drink. That's ten percent of your first month at better help dot com slash drink. Christine. So one of my favorite horror movies ever is the Blair witch project I was hoping and say that because that's one of the only movies I actually like and it's like we we don't ever have this kind of thing in common. So I'm amp that actually you and I both really loved this movie I loved especially. So my my step mom used to tell me that she grew. Up next to the woods where they film that and she saw the Blair witch herself so I used to freak out that may kind of true and it may probably not. But I just don't really know anyway the best part about the lear, which right now is that they have turned it into a game by hunter killer hunter killer has created the their Blair witch game I am. Emmett I both hung out when we more excited yeah, we are. So. Basically, hunter killer has partnered with Lionsgate's bring a story to life that takes place in the Blair witch universe, and it is scary just how he like it with each delivery Yo piece together the history of the Blair witch by sifting through cryptic documents you know I love a good cryptic. Discovering audio recordings in solving disturbing puzzles, you know Christine loves a good disturbing. Plus. It's like a terrifying escape room delivered right to your door which. No so perfect. It's perfect activity especially right now during social distancing if you have a date night I'm definitely making blades do with me which he's actually having a good time. So I'm happy about that and if you think you can handle it. The Blair witch game is designed so you can play by yourself also. So it's basically the creepiest thing. If you WANNA creep yourself out at home which you're listening to this Oh, probably you do hunter killers murder mystery game. Already has one hundred thousand active subscribers and over two thousand, five star reviews. So you know that there are good at telling stories and this may be the best one yet I'm not kidding I the second I found out there was a Blair witch one I got so excited I'm going to make Alison with me. Then after you make blaze play with, you will know it and then we'll play it together. Then we can take it to the apartment and play it again. Then Go. Right now for our listeners, you can go to hundred killer dot com slash be w like Blair witch BMW drink and use Promo code BWI drink at checkout for twenty percent off your first box had to hunter killer dot com slash VW drink for twenty percent off and a show support for our podcast unto killer dot com slash BWI DRINK See if you can survive the curse of the Blair witch win dundonald probably won't. But no. Okay Great. So I have a story here this is from destiny. He's a she here pronouncing he does knee and it is called secret Mexican. Oh, boy brew horea ruling. Career. Area. Now because it's the accent is on the I. Through. Maybe. I don't know. English is not your first language in. Spanish none of mine language was Spanish is certainly not my any language. Okay. Hey there m, Christine Eva Sweet Baby Gio, handsome juniper, and anyone else might be forgetting at the moment I'm about to catch up. nope. I'm just about caught up with the podcast since I have some actual downtime from studying I wanted to refer all the way back to I. think listeners upset seventeen where m said something about a secret. It reminded me of something that I witnessed happened when I was about seven. So he does you experience. No. To start off I come from a household filled with family members who believed heavily in white witchcraft spiritual healing. Okay. Some of us are more clairvoyant than others without even realizing it. This can come with the territory of spirits attaching to you sometimes unknowingly while that is exactly what happened to my on. My uncle is actually one of those that tries to not believe in things like this because the world just makes better sense Oei one day he was at a cemetery visiting some family members who have long departed from this world rest in peace and decided to snap some pictures with a disposable camera. For the following years, he would have constant back pains that no type of therapy could fix and upon getting actual scans, they'd be normal. My Grandma mobbing the very Catholic but spiritual woman she is decided it was time to make a secret visit to a thank you for the pronunciation guide coup Rhonda Courant Berrow. Korindo. Okay. Quran darrow. I can't roll my hours. Ago I duNno, it's hard when there's multiple rolled ours in one word I just wanted I just wanted to be in on the fun that's all God. I hope we had fun. The Blouse Cordero, which is a spiritual healer that can also help lift curses similar to a witch on arriving to the shop she meets with the healer and only gives this person my uncle's name without any other type of knowledge. The healer then told my mom that there was a spirit that has been attached to my uncle's body just what was causing all his back pains the. Only way to help my uncle was by secretly cleansing his spirit because he would just brush it off and tell mom she was crazy if she ever went up to him. Okay. But that's like I mean imagine if like all the bullshit that we try imagine like blazed Tashin ablaze or something attaching to allison who like I mean Alison, I'm blazer pretty much on the same level of Lake. Either believing it and not wanting to admit it or not believing it. They're like man about it. Yeah. Imagine like for all the Shit we do something attached to them and it's like, okay well, they're not. We have to secretly Clinton. Right, exactly. Exactly. Interestingly like when I took reiki courses like can't do that unless someone's accepting it right. You enter into it right but I wonder if that's different depending Rakia, I don't know if that's. True. That's a completely different thing but yet I definitely learned like try and like. Like blaze has to say sure. which is exactly where he'd say he would not say, yes, I accept this you would not say yes, please. Yeah. Christina whatever If that's what you want. Oh okay. Sorry. Anyway. So with that Info from the Cordeiro went to work at and did what we call a Oh my gosh this is bad. A Burrito, a Burrito Day Wairoa, which is an egg cleanse. Oh. Wow I heard waiver when I wanted to. Oh my God okay. about a whoever which is an egg cleanse to get rid of all the negative energy attached to a person. She recited a special prayer in a whisper while my uncle was asleep crack the egg into a cup of water and would place the egg under his bed. For approximately three nights or until the egg didn't appear cooked or turn white on the outside overnight all without his knowledge feel like you would just smell rotten eggs eventually when you I think you just do one at a time and then take it out and then do another one night i. see I until it's not like cook. Okay. Sorry. Yeah I think. all after all was said and done after week. My uncle finally noticed that his back wasn't hurting anymore without realising why it's. Only my mom my mom my uncle and meet new and have been the only ones to know about for about eighteen years. Holy listen to this show. And since then my uncle has never had to step foot into a doctor's office for his back again to add probably about a year after Mata. That cleansing we ended up getting a whole bunch of film from disposable cameras developed. One of those being the camera out my uncle took pictures with from that role of film. There was one photo that looked like he took a picture of himself in a mirror and there was someone. In. The picture that we couldn't make who because the picture was blurry goodbye holy crap. My uncle said he didn't remember ever taking that picture from years ago because he was one outside so like the mirror doesn't make much sense and he was alone. So my mom mom and uncle. Sorry. So my mom mom and aunt decided that maybe the person in the picture is a spirit that stayed clinging onto my uncle for so long. Anyway. Thanks for listening and I can't wait to see if this ever POPs up in a listener episode had sure. If I can find the picture I'll try and Sunday Wedneday loved as hopefully you're not in the car with your uncle When the story And then all of a sudden he'll look like, what did you do? He'd be like that sounds like such a familiar story. Yeah I. Wonder why? Ever find that photo does send it to us and we'll like I don't know put it on with this episode with the with Tupperware. Also, I WANNA learn more about Ed cleansing because if all I need to do to correct my ancient. Is throw an egg under my bed and let's do it. Okay. So the next this next one is from Elizabeth who uses she her pronunciation for normal is in front of Lube. And the subject is a seance story do high all. I just discovered your podcast and I've been listening nearly nonstop for the past several days. YEA team wine. the story I have to tell is actually my dad's stories so I probably won't get every detail, right, but it's so spooky I have to share when my dad was a young teenager in the late sixties key went one afternoon with one of his good friends I'll call him Tim to a girl's house I'll call her Lisa. Who already had one of her girlfriends there? So they're going over to Lisa's house who has a friend over One detailed to keep in mind is that Tim was a super super blonde boy. All right. Okay I will remember this after running out of ideas for stuff to do one of the sub one of them suggests they have a seance that person's name was Christine. Misspelled. Christine right right. So they sit in a circle and the Living Room and my dad's directly across from his blonde friend and the two girls across from. after attempting to contact many famous dead people Lisa suggests that they tried to contact her. So they proceed to start talking to him and at Lisa's a mom has been in the kitchen this whole time and comes over at this point to ask what they are doing. Good so that woman is not. Like not again seen. Back and turn the lights. Go here she just knocked on doors and asked have seances. So Lisa tells her that they're having a sense to try to bring back ankle Paul her mom's brother Lisa's mom begins to reminiscence are telling the kids about her brother and after a while, my dad feels the hairs on the back of his neck stand on end. He looks up at Tim but Tim is no longer there Oh shit. Instead it is a grown man with dark wet hair dripping down the front of his face. My Dad and Lisa Bowl starts screaming because she had seen the same thing. They quickly turn on all the lights and describe what they had seen and Lisa's mom tells them how her brother had really died. Apparently, he'd gone into some really bad trouble with gambling debt and they found him beaten to death in a bathtub full of water. Holy Shit, my dad says he's never been more scared in his life. He says for years afterward he would get that same sensation he got before he saw uncle. Paul and would just turn it off for fear of what he might see. One thing to notice on my dad maybe the most skeptical person on the planet. So hearing this from him, makes it so much more chilling. And then at the end. Cheers. Cheers indeed. Holy. But yeah, I hadn't even thought of that like what if you think about it for too long like almost manifested manifest it can you imagine every time? You get that feeling in your like the last time I got this feeling I looked up and saw a dead man. It also makes closer is it also makes me wonder like was he seeing like? So Lisa's mom was talking about her brother maybe it was like her last memory and he saw that. Is is after you die when your ghost is that how you look still like, why are you like peaceful and happy? Well, maybe that's maybe they can manifest a show like a a message or you know like I feel like a lot of times you hear when Ghost, I buy some traumatic event rat replays or that is like a mental into the world I don't know so many options anyway. So so many options. So many ways we could go about this, but it is a very creepy on the last. So thank you for that. Thank you who was again that was Elizabeth. Thank you with that was spooky. One more story. I got one more story for you. Oh my gosh. This talk about a buzzword. I saw the. I saw the subject line ause like I'm sure eva strategically placed the so Christine would read it Oh she certainly did it's called. It's from amy. In it's called a Seattle and the subject is I live in the haunted death cab for Cutie House. and was asking earlier like what other music did you listen to weird? Cab I listened to a lot of death deficit literally like when we started I don't know where where they're going to. Start the episode, but we were literally in the middle of talking about our favorites, right? We talking about hello? Goodbye. How Yeah? Wow Circle. One Time I. Don't know if I said this on this show but one time I was being really email and listening on my lake ipod to death camp Rakiya. My Dad walked in Ho what are you listening to and I said death cab for Cutie and he's like you shouldn't listen to this and I was like why and he's like a name like death camp graffiti can't be very. Good music. It is like death camp graffiti and he was like isn't that what you said and I was like, yeah let's go with death camp graffiti. The only have like that is I. It's not even totally like that, but it brought back the memory for me that Back. In the day guys. If he wanted to learn a song, you would look up the lyrics and then print them out at least. Z. Dot Com, and so I was I was like thirteen and I printed it out lyrics to like whatever the newest I think it was drop it like it's Like Snoop Dogg, Song that was really popular. And I guess I had left a copy of the lyrics in the printer. So my mom found them and she was like, what are you? What are you typing? What are what are you all and she thought I was thirteen and I wrote the lyrics for drop like top by Snoop Dogg which if oh my it is very explicit about a lot of doing drugs and Oh my God I remember getting. Like just screamed that she would imagine she's like this poetry that you're writing is so inappropriate I think that was the first time I ever I mean the phrase was out there yet but whatever the the two thousand, five version of O boomer was. I remember feeling that for the first time and I just took it I didn't even try to explain myself because I was like, I don't know how to explain this to her the only thing she still thinks that you wrote some weird over sexualize. Into club poem. that. I wonder. I and like the funniest part that was most of her. Like screaming at me was that she was like you shouldn't be talking about. Pot like this and I was in hindsight now that I'm an adult I'm like she was the biggest donor. I'd ever met a probably why she recognized all the. was like. Says I don't know what it says I. Mean I feel like I printed those out I was like, what does this mean and then now I'm like Oh, God anyway oh I apparently was the ghostwriter for Snoop Dogg and two thousand five. So Wow, it's actually beautiful tail. Thank you but then near Memoir. I so I I'm reading this about death cab for Cutie House. This is from Amiens Seattle who says, Dear, eighteen ww family I am a few months behind realize you will have already covered synchronised stories but I wanted to send this one in any way I love criticized. All Day Long. Because it is noodles all the way to the tall. I think Christine will find it particularly delightful. Okay. My News Amy she her thank you and I moved from California to Seattle in the mid two thousand I had a few CD's in my car. Oh. My Gosh Transatlantic says, am I had that CD my car as well in. in my car for long drive and one I played on repeat transit cynicism by Catholic. giddy figured it was appropriate for Seattle relocation and I am a big Fan. Fast forward to twenty fourteen and I am a newly wed my husband and I stumbled across a cute brick house for sale and Ballard Seattle that was out of our price range. We made the offer anyway and it was surprisingly accepted while we were away on vacation while we were gone, my inlaws walked around the property and the neighbors greeted them to tell them. It was the former home of Ben. Gabbard lead singer I can't do this. This is actually giving me a lot of. Death Kevorkian. Did I ever tell you got kicked out of a music festival for trying to propose to Ben Gabbard? So you didn't tell me but I feel like when I heard that is spiritually already knew. Tried to climb the fence and I was like they were like you can't believe slate. The same kind of like a chaotic energy that I still get from anytime. I, see you drunk carrying a purse early. Everything around us just slowly falling to bits and there's other people you don't know being like you can't do that. You can't do. You have to you have to keep your social security. Card. Is. A mayhem. Is this your credit card? Anyway point being don't climb and then, and then when we started having a podcast and had live shows, I was like Oh my God. If someone tried to climb in here and proposed to me, I would like I sure call security immediately. So I was like I don't blame him for rejecting advances you know. I. Don't I. Don't blame them either but I do like that like it's I only knew you as an adult and so it's fun to see like when I see you do things like just like throw your license like floor and then intentionally walk away from it. I like knowing like Oh. This didn't just show up at a nowhere like this. This was lifelong. Standing that goes to your time out I just build the energy up enough and like it just gets worse. The really impulsive decisions to do things that will make great stories one day like it's just always been with you think that's why we're friends though. That energy pairs well with one another I mean I'm like I'm poking fun at you bill like let's not delve into my childhood because you'll understand a lot of things. I've read your poetry about like thongs and whatever I don't WanNa know much. Too. But I feel like the universe waited to introduce us as friends. Until after we had known each other for several years to be like too much too. Soon, you know ladies wait if we knew each other when we were both climbing fences to get into festivals. We would add. Like you're totally right, it would have been like way. Worse enablers because we had no concept of the law yet. No Certainly not. Now, we're just like, let's just eat cheesecake like that's as far as chaotic energy. cheesecake it's a legal that's are. Yes God. Okay. Sorry. amy that I keep derailing your story. So Ben Gebert lived in this lived in this house and I'm freaking out who did we have tickets to see play live when we return from vacation you guessed it breaking death cab stars were aligned. I was thrilled and we named the house narrow stairs as he lived here during the recording of that album Isis I. This is the most I can't even deal with this is like my dream this is like my fan fiction that I wrote in high school. You know I also love the third they named the House I love when houses of names I do too and especially when it has such a perfect combo like narrow stairs. It's just great. It's perfect. It doesn't need my explanation. Okay. Built in one, thousand, nine, thirty, it really does have some very narrow weird stairs. We have found notes from Ben and I get tar pick in the house and we still get his junk mail I'm freaking out right now. Five. Uneventful years passed in the house until one night in May Twenty nineteen house having trouble sleeping. So I left my husband and our room upstairs slept in the guest room on the main floor as I was lying awake on the bed at two. Am I heard very clearly the sound of feet coming down the stairs pausing at the bottom then turning to go into my office, the wood floors clearly creaked and I could hear the sound of bare feet on the floor Sorry to look up to for dramatic effect in the immediate loss. Is Dramatic. So dramatic, my heart is racing and amy says, my heart was racing I called out nothing no answer I ran upstairs to see my husband cat asleep in our bed was no one else there. I went back to the guest room on the main floor and as I try to fall asleep I even more clearly heard slow creaking footsteps walk from the Office turn and go back upstairs I yelled my husband to knock it off got up to investigate and again there was nothing no one I was completely shaken at this point. At, that one I wanted to ask the previous owner if the House has a history but I had lost her contact info, the owner prior to her was Mr death cab and he's not exactly taking calls from ranchos yeah. I could've told you that I tried many times he wasn't interested. I gathered I wonder if some of that fan that junk mail is just like me writing fan mail back in two thousand five. Like okay whoever you are, if you're still in that house and you're still looking at his junk mail snake, sure the return address as from like. I'm always crazy for. My God. Could you imagine getting fan mail from someone called I'm always see. Like. That we're really in trouble okay. God. Okay I figured we would never now. So the very next day is warm and we decide to walk to get ice cream at our local shop. As we walked by the pizza joint. My husband says to me, you know who he walked. Sorry you know he just walked by standing outside. That's Ben. Gilbert. Looked and it was true and at that moment my husband knew without a doubt what I was about to do well we. Do, can you imagine if it's like and then we went home at the end? Okay, good move. I walked straight up to bend and like a total. Weirdo I said excuse me Mr Gabbard but I live in your old house was it haunted when you live there? Of course, he was taken aback. But when he realized I wasn't going to be a creepy fan girl and truly wanted to know he laughed and said, he never had had any experiences. He even stuck out his hand and said, hi, I'm Ben and then she says we know you goof high at and T. is still trying to give you that promotional cards so. I. Don't tell me your names Ben Way Too much about you. Right I know all of your rewards numbers. However, at the table of his friends and family, a woman said Oh you live in the old house in here in Ballard I hated that house I always heard creaking in the hallway near the stairs. We froze we had not mentioned anything about what I heard where I heard it in the house nothing I looked at her incredulously said, yes, that's it. That's exactly what we heard. Cute. The Goose Cam indeed everything has been quiet in the House and Senate, and I want to say for the record Mr death cab is a really kind and friendly person. But of all people I could have run into the very next day after hearing the footsteps I ran into him wild, keep up the great work and the sweet sweet content, your much appreciated. Avian Seattle I this. Is Getting me good this like rivals the one where they met fall out boy like I'm. I'm I'm like in a place in a place in my head right now. Now, just need to find like one more band and you'll have your fat like Ooh like ran into like did a ghost tour with panic at the discover something. Don't even you're getting me a little to row though. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you, amy and thank you everybody for your stories. These were a trip. Obviously, we had a good time I think that. Thank you so much and I hope everyone's having is gearing up for the spooky season. The next time you hear listeners, upsets from us it'll be a it'll be halloween day number two. If you know what I'm saying, it's yes. I know what you're saying. It'll be the morning after it'll be the morning with a you after link hang on. Okay. Hang on anyway can't wait to see on October thirty seconds when you hear the Stories, Vegas if you are if this is your first time hearing these, we put these on the first of every month, and if you would like to your store, you can do that through our website that we have a submission box there for you and if you've ever met Sir Thomas, let me know because I need to try to hear. If you had death cab and Sir Thomas what kind of like weird crime it baby would they have? Giant tamales. Okay. Well, thanks everybody and that's why we. Drink. Is. Twenty. Twenty. Thirty twenty. Nine. Okay Bye.

Christine Eva Eva Perfect Lisa Bowl murder Sir Thomas. David Yeah Tim Tim Tim tupperware Danielle California Toronto front porch Florence Sandro James mcevoy Snoop Dogg Elizabeth Seattle
Watt It Takes: The Founder-Engineer Turning CO2 Into Usable Stuff

The Energy Gang

57:09 min | 1 year ago

Watt It Takes: The Founder-Engineer Turning CO2 Into Usable Stuff

"This podcast is supported by Sun. Gro Sandra itself support. Some of the biggest and most innovative peavy and battery systems in the world with its invert irs son grow so is the leading solar inverted supplier by volume in the world and all that volume. He creates complexity to manage that complexity at needs the best people to deliver the best products on time and working perfectly. That means people jill done who you're going to hear from later in the show. Find out more about Sandro. Solar and storage converters at Sun. GRO POWER DOT COM This week on what it takes. How an aspiring astronaut not went from working on a laser system for the Mars rover to sleeping in her car for months and then co founded a start up the turn? Co Two into chemicals and fuels. For some reason. I had had the start in my mind that like. Oh I graduated from Grad School. You get a high salary that would have been like when it was clear that we that was not then. I had to make some tough choices. Is it so it was like okay. Well let me see how brands and stuff. So what does that look like. Well I was like living in my car for a few months when I wince which actually is kind of Nice Berkeley some very nice areas. They're pretty relatively safe. You know it was like camping every night at that founder. optimus land welcome to WADA. Takes Aches and interview series produced by powerhouse and green tech media. I've Stephen Lacey. In this series we hear from founders and executives at the most influential clean energy companies their backgrounds their passions their struggles their deals their management philosophies their near death experiences in this episode powerhouse CEO. Emily Kirsch sits down with Dr Tasha Cave. The the Co founder and Chief Science Officer of Otis Twelve Opus twelve as a team of engineers electro chemists and materials scientists working on tech that converts carbon dioxide into usable products. Tux they're developing a metal catalyst that can turn. Co Two into synthetic gas for fuels and ethylene for plastics. If it works at commercial scale it would be a vital solution for we're slashing. Co Two from industrial sources. The companies brought in about twenty million dollars in funding so far in this interview TASHA talks about the inspiration for the tech which came from her love of space and desire to go to Mars. She talks about being a founder. WHO's also a black woman and how that's influenced her and she talks about where opus twelve is in their pre revenue development element? This conversation was recorded live at the powerhouse headquarters in Oakland California to learn more about the future speakers and attending a live event at the usual venue in Oakland blend go to powerhouse dot fund and Click on the events tab and now here's Emily Kirsch with Dr Tasha Cave Tasha welcome to powerhouse awesome. Welcome to audit takes. Thanks for having me your welcome so you grew up in Cross Mont Park which is twenty minutes south of downtown. Houston you are middle child understand stand you have an older brother and a younger brother. Your mom was a public elementary school science teacher. Your Dad started as a bus driver ended up doing contracting for for the counties transit system and I'm curious what was cross Mont Park like for you growing up. And what were you like as a kid back. Then it's still is a working class class low income mostly black neighborhood and so I grew up in this neighborhood and went to the local elementary school. which is which is public public school but all the public schools for the most part in the metropolitan Houston area are magnet schools? And so my local public school had an amazing fine arts program and and so I did ballet and track and did orchestra and was in the band So I just did a ton of different extracurricular cricket because of this Fine Arts program there and I would say as a kid. I was pretty driven kind of a busy body. Have my older brother even to this day. Jay sometimes he'll be like Tasha. You're doin' too much. Stop you like I was just like you know I dance practice at school or it was like practicing orchestra and like doing all these different things and you know even back as a kid the kind of mantra I had my minor or how I was sort of thinking about things it was like. How can I like leave Texas or leave and they go and explore the world outside of Houston where I grew route because my mom would always be like? I'M NOT GONNA raise any adult children like you know when you get eighteen. You're out it's easy to find your own way so I was kind of like okay. Well if I want to get out and figure out how I'm GonNa live after that. 'cause she made it sound like it would be this horrible thing of being out on the street. I didn't like go to college or something so so I would. I would think a lot about like. Oh well let me work on these extra activities. I can make a good college avocation. I can go to school. How old were you when you first have that? I thought like I needed to make extra here choices that I can go to college. How old were you when probably like eight? Yeah is pretty young uh-huh And then tell me about what kind of student were you. What were you drawn to? What did you love Ya? I was super nerdy As a kid and I was very much drawn to math and science It is really made sense to me. I mean like language like English like at a bit of a harder time with But still was like always like studying being always in the books and Really trying to like always strive to make an definitely was like very much like More so when I got into high school and and I realize it's like okay. You can get academic scholarships and go to college like then it's like okay. Why must get like the best grades possible? Where you proud of being a nerd and getting straight a's No not always I think I remember like Middle School especially Like I would like hide in the bathroom like when in report cards were coming out. Not Because I had about appropriate action like all as but I just didn't WanNa have to compare with my friends because then it'd be like Oh you know they would like make fun of me or something and so I would just like go get my report card later And so it was. It wasn't tower. They got into college whereas like really kind of cool. Oughta be a nerd still live. How did you end up attending this engineering magnet high school? Yes also when I was in middle school. There was a substitute teacher there so he. He has his reputation of being this fortuneteller kind of like he was like. Oh he could. He was sort of psychic. And I and I don't think any of us believe that we were kind of what's going to happen in my in my life or whatever's I ask them like well. What's going to happen to me where I'm going to go to school? And and he was like you should try to go to this engineering school up North in the north side of Houston I I lived in the south so it was quite a ways away and I just kind of out of spite was like okay. Fine I'M GONNA go check out the school and and show him that he doesn't know what he's talking about And I went there and I loved it and they had this orientation you take this test to get in so when I went to take the test and got the tour I was like okay. Okay I have to go to the school upon graduating high school and now you got into your dream. School got into MIT. But you decided to join an entirely new east coast. College like First Class Seventy five people in part because they offered you a full academic scholarship. You also got a scholarship from the National Society of Black Engineers The East go school called Franklin Olin College of Engineering You were one of seventy five people in the first class The inaugural class the only black person. What was the program grandma? And how was it being the only black person in the class. Yeah so Franklin Olen Started College like And in in some ways that it did attract me to it. It was like being the first class. I could shape how the school was going to form so it was. It was really exciting and really amazing to be part of that. Felt like a once in a lifetime. Opportunity at the same time like I was like I was like wow. I'm the only person in class and I didn't realize that until the first day because even they send us pictures of people. There was one person that like the lighting was a little off so I was like. Maybe he wasn't and so I was like okay as as I mean I think looking back on it I I. I don't know that I handled it all that will in terms of my internal anxiety. I was pretty anxious of that time. I didn't really know what that was or know what that meant and kind of had this feeling like oh everyone's like expecting me to perform certain way and like there's like this mantra I think within Solely my parents said at a lot within the black community is like as a as a black person you have to be twice as good. We've seen as the same and so I have been mantra going through my head and so I would be like okay. Okay I got to like be twice as good and like and in the end I think like if I could go back I would have handled a little bit differently in terms of dealing with the emotional part of it but otherwise I mean it was really fun environment. It was very hands on project based learning so they really encouraged us to do projects and work in teams and and build stuff So that was really cool part of the school. What would you have done differently? Learning about emotions and having more emotional intelligence parents and I think just realizing like like engineering's challenging like talking with other people and working working working groups and working through problems that like not feel like I always have to know the answer to be perfect or like have everything kind of knowing that it's okay to Kind of have to figure figure things out of the group and like the kind of deal with and not have that have the perception that like. Oh I'm like letting people down if I didn't know something after graduating from Franklin then you in turn an Irqah The the National Science Foundation Station For Five months where you were primarily a handywoman but also worked on the laser diode for Future Mars Ars Rover missions tells about that. Yeah Yeah So. In my senior year there was a one when my classmates had went to New Zealand for study abroad and he found out about the Antarctic program and he told me about it and I was like Oh this sounds awesome. I'd really love to go and the articles. I had aspirations of being an astronaut and a lot of times. The astronaut training Arctic custom. Like let me go and like pretend to be an astronaut and stuff so I have to ask. How old were you when you decided you want it to be an astronaut? Well grown up in Houston like everyone else. I mean you're the bylaws. I probably as a kid. I think. A lot of kids WANNA be astronauts. Ideas Lake. Didn't stop wanting to be. You still nationally is. We're GONNA come. We're going to talk more. What about that later but sorry yeah? Yeah and so So I found I applied and became part of the support staff there But my internship ship program required a project so the project did. Was this laser diode testing for this Mars rover an eye contact professor. WHO was working on the project and it's okay? I'm going down there do you. You want some testing Dan. Can I pr- progress. The project further So it was an amazing place like I. I love to be an article I would love to go back at some point and and winter over or just be there for your astronaut training trying. Yeah that'd be great astronaut training again and you were applying to graduate it page programs from Antarctica. And I know you had your heart set on cow and you got into both cal and Stanford but Stanford sent you an email and called you whereas cows sent your acceptance letter via mail to your parents home and so you didn't actually get the cow letter. Yeah well they sent it to artic. 'cause I was having yeah of course and then it got four and it's my parents house after I had already visited Stanford and then And so it was like Pretty close to the deadline except And and when I visited Stanford I I was sort of hooked right away like I was I was like okay. I'm I'm going to Stanford even much more like a cowgirl at heart and tears culturally lake. What does that mean just like you know more earthy grounded like Bohemian again? Kind of tight. Like Sir. I now that I am in Berkeley I I do you know just like I still love it. I think it's great. You know it would have been great place to go to Grad School. I'm happy I went to Stanford for sure Tell us about your time at Stanford and particularly how did that lead to ultimately the founding of opus twelve yeah so at Stanford I was a lab. The lab of Thomas Hotter meal and I was looking at a mimicking Bio Catalysts so In nature plans takes co two and they have a catalyst that converse that co two into useful stuff and they use sunlight for that and so that was one of the reactions that he was looking at creating metal based catalysts. That could do that in industry so you know could retake to the way plants do and make stuff out of co two And so I was in that lab. And we myself my co-founder Kendra we. We were She actually joining lab before I did so she was. I joined with her and we were some of the early people looking at these metal catalysts on a very basic science side. I mean we were working with a computational group and they were doing calculations on the and we would make some cadillacs. We'd kind of go back and forth and brainstorm to try to figure out on almost like a quantum mechanical level. Why these metal catalysts could do this conversion and and then toward the end of my PhD Kendra had already graduating was at slack? Donate a post doc STANFORD LINEAR accelerator. Not The the messaging. Yes like an exhibit at the Stanford Linear Accelerator and she And and so so. Yeah I asked her like hey you know what do you think about trying to scale this up and bring industry and She was not not interested in seeing where it could go. And then I later met Nicholas at At the Stanford Space Club actually was for some we had met and They had like a business and engineering student night. And then later on We met again at a cleantech event where they're bringing business school students in engineering school students on a Saturday together to talk about cleantech challenges and and how we could work together to overcome them and so I- pitched at that time. What was my graduate research and and it was like? Hey you know there's business plan competition and we're looking for business school students to help buzz with some of the business model aspects have been interested. Let me know who and And there was a handful of people who like expressed interest but Nicholas actually followed up and we met for coffee and the business plan competition together and the three three of ice Got To work really closely For that competition and kind of that was the beginning of a realizing like okay we can. You can work well together and We each in her own value to the potential companies. We have the competition. We lost that competition but we did Longer who is the the now director of Cyclotron road was our one of our judges there and He later You know because we were in that competition contacted us and and told us about Cyclotron Road which was Really what kind of got US started kind of ramped up And so by us being in that competition like kind of I guess you could say we won later on Bhai Cyclotron Road and and for those who aren't familiar tell us about what is cyclotron road. Yes the second John Rose a Fellowship Entrepreneurial Fellowship Program at Lawrence Berkeley National Lab although they've have recently rebranded and now they're called activate and they've expanded to Boston. Doing lots of new things happening you were part of the it was the very first cohort right. Okay I yeah you have a tradition of this. Yeah at least the first. It's called in thirty seven back then so it's been Evolved we've seen the evolution the program But effectively what it did is it gave us the space and the capacity to kind of Work on the technology to see if you know what could become of it So we we got Direct support in terms of salaries and supplies and Access to research at the lab free rent at the lab which was amazing. Now that we're in our own space and like that was a huge deal that was free. And we've and and and also mentorship on the business development side So that was a two year program that we did Graduated from that and was it clear early on us. You did this. Business Plan Competition worked well together. It was really clear who would play. What role as far as nick being Nicholas being CEO you can Rabin cto you chief science officer? How how did you decide? And how did you come up with your title particularly for Yourself Yeah. It was not clear initially officially I would at least not for me and maybe less for Nicholson Kendra. We definitely Put off the conversation For as long August we could. I think I think even cyclotron guys you've got to put some titles on the website you can like just keep callers of co-founders And so we have a conversation and and so yeah. It's kind of tricky. Because so Nicholas of course has a business background this is the second startup and so for him like co was the role that he had wanted and like a made made sense and from his perspective. And then you know can kindle and I both have technical background ounce like well you know what do you do when there's technical co-founders CTO Kindred took and then so then it was kind of like Nicholas okay. I'm going to be CEO Kinder- A CTO. Then it was a question of with me And so we were looking. We like literally Google like chief. Excellent what can you they misunderstood chief. Scientific officer came up and that seemed appropriate. It's also spock. Chief Scientific Offers Garner. Okay that's GONNA call but I mean it's also like I'm sure chief officer probably means like second technical co-founder and accompanied because it's it's just like we needed something to call me and then I know so you were able to get a seventy five K.. Grant early on from the Tom. Cat Center at Stanford As well as support through cyclotron road. But I'm curious. How much were you paying yourselves when you were just getting started? And what did that mean for you and your or life early on. Yeah so it's like did provide a salary but they only bring in the technical co founder so we had Nicholas and so And we also wanted to hire people. We didn't have money like in the company to hire external people so we came to the conclusion that we need to like. Cut Our salary and give the you know. Give a good chunk of our salary that we're getting road. Basically into the companies that we hire people on and also could have an equivalent salary So so it it was basically like you know me going from this a Grad student who had a saipan that was you know somewhat barely livable and then like being maybe pay like a post doc which I think for me was a little challenging because for some reason I had this thought in my mind that like oh I wage like when I graduated from Grad School. Just like you just get a high salary that just would happen like and even even though we were starting to accompany at is kind of assumed like okay like you're just GonNa have a decent salary and so like when it was clear that we that was not then I had to really make some tough choices and so like okay well let me see how can grant and all that kind of stuff so So it was really like creative ways that I could Really keep costs low. Why would the? What is that look like? Well I guess I was living in my car for a few months since yeah little. Few months which actually is kind of Nice to Berkeley has some very nice areas. They're pretty relatively zoe. Say What I can tell and yeah and like it was like camping every night. Yeah definitely have that founder. optimus let this podcast is brought to you by Sandro. Sandro sells the most solar innovators in the world those inverted the backbone of some of the biggest and most innovative projects. And when you're putting such high volumes of Power Electron IX in the field. Every day you need people like Jill done to make sure everything goes goes smoothly. Jill is a project manager at Sun. Gro caught up with her during a moment of downtime in the warehouse that time just got piney. I didn't realize it was displayed already. Busy Day they already know it. All leases keeps it interesting. I guess Jobs job is to make sure everything happens. Just the way it's supposed to that means converters are built to SPEC they're shipped on time and they fire up smoothly so if something needs to happen they go to you correct. What's the consequence? If one of those pieces goes wrong During commissioning luckily I can say that I have not had any central and murders during commissioning not turn on because I of not have to worry about that which is a wonderful thing. Nearly two and a half years at Sun Gro and Jill has a completely clean performance record. That means she's in high demand and with nearly three gigawatts converters already booked for this year. Her schedule is packed. Oh Yeah I look at my calendar and my calendar up through McHugh to in and anward of next year and that's pretty much all I can focus on it this time. I don't WanNa look too much further out at me. Scare me on. How much more is is on there? It is shocking looking at it and it is absolutely wonderful looking added at the same time with our growth. You just need to be very organized and detailed uh-huh and you can get through any project so maybe if analysts want to understand the growth of the industry. They don't have to crunch the numbers they just need to look at your calendar. Yeah absolutely when you choose son grow invaders. You aren't just choosing best in class technology. You're choosing people like Jill who work around the clock to make sure those investors murders are meeting the highest performance standards. There's a lot of steps involved out. This is a very intense a lot of stress a lot of pressure to get income and the best part of this is being able at the end of it a hand off the reports to the customer and you know have another successful. Oh project on so so do customers feel like they can stand by the Jill done seal of approval. I believe so you can get more information on. Son Grows solar and storage and voters at Sun. GRO POWER DOT COM okay so a couple months so that And then you were able to to raise a really impressive amount. More than ten million dollars from the time that you started which you incorporated raided in mid two thousand fifteen really got started in mid two thousand sixteen since. Then you've raised over ten million and non dilutive capital including an SP grant Through NASA a National Science Foundation. VR Some capital through. Do we and then since two thousand sixteen raised both precede and a seed round from investors. There's like DC VCA dobie ventures breakout ventures So curious what was the fundraising process. Like especially really early on like when you were just getting started. That sounds very impressive. When you say really impressive And I won't be clear it's it's really expensive to run the company. We have over twenty four employees now also like we you know it takes a lot of capital and we we definitely Use It takes scelerisque technology fund raising In the early days you know it. It was quite a challenge. We had to figure out so for grants You know we out nine grant applications before we got our first once our tenth grade application was the one that we got who's NASA SPA and and so we had to kind of come up that learning curve to really know how to uh-huh described the technology in a way that suggests that people who are scientists but does not in our field. And how do we create a work plan where we really clearly lay out like how we're going to overcome this challenge college that were writing about on the ground and how we're going to commercialize this technology and like so. We had to do a lot of that that learning early on on the fundraising side. I mean luckily. Because we weren't cyclotron road we had car salaries and we have this. Non diluted funding we could kind of slow down the need to race private funding and so we you know we could build relationship with investors and really kind of know who are potential allies would be the potential investors. I would be which is really huge. It's really nice to be able to engage with investors when you don't need money and so two to talk about technology this chair and the excitement and like have them kind a follower progression like have him see us meet these technical milestones and that kind of thing was really really huge for us to be able to raise the preseason seed round And and a lot of just going out and really having lots of meetings and kind of pitching idea and then doing the due diligence It's it's a lot of work raise funds for sure and advice for entrepreneurs that are just starting the funding process now. Yeah I would say say Definitely get lots of feedback from Your mentors and allies and Even now we're continuously working on like how we talk doc about the company like how we're GONNA use the funds like how how will it work seller technology And yeah kind of this kind of putting Rapson. I'd say like getting out there and like talking about the technology is as much as you can. you know not every investors going to see the lights and come over over bike. It's good practice to together as much as much as you can As far as the product goes so you are recycling. Co Two into chemicals Michaels and fuels using only water electricity as inputs. What kinds of chemicals and fuels are you creating and for WHO? Yeah so do we can make. We're really targeting. Three molecules that we can make from zero to in water using these metal catalysts. Those three molecules Sir Carbon Monoxide ethylene methane And even though carbon monoxide is something you wouldn't like one of your home for example. It's definitely very viable. Industrial molecule and so Monoxide combine with hydrogen can actually become fuel and so one of one of the contracts. We've gotten recently was from the Air Force and they're interested in making jet fuel anywhere in the world because fuel convoys actually are huge targets and they've They have have from from what we've been told the large number of casualties and death of come from fuel convoys since like the Vietnam War And so if you can make fuel on site then you can reduce casualties from that so you can take. Co Two from the air you can which is not a device that we make but you can. You can buy it off the shelf almost nowadays. There's a company in Switzerland makes them and then you can run that. Co Two through our device Make this carbon monoxide hydrogen. And then you run that into who official trump's reactor to make jet fuel. And you can imagine that like in a shipping container Somewhere and making jet fuel just from a remote source of electric city so maybe solar wind could Smith jet fuel anywhere in the world. So that's just one example of how we can take you to actually make a real product from it We also are looking at components and consumer products. There's a couple of luxury brands that were talking with that. Want to have a carbon negative footprint to reduce the carbon impact their their air products so we can make components that are indistinguishable from the component. That's made from petroleum so we Were pursuing those pathways as well What size what is the size of the system that you've built in order to do this? This recycling this conversion. Yeah I I in our lab in in Berkeley. And it's about the size of a dishwasher and that unit came in from our manufacturing partner. That's in Connecticut Kid Early this year and in fact it was. It came an hour before Bill Gates Came into our lab because Bill Gates came into your lab. Yeah here doing this. Of course I mean to be fair. He came to several cyclotron road companies. So it was like something that they had worked out but he was there and They did a Netflix special with him where they were filming for him. So are you in it for like half a second. Yes yes yes the third part around minute ten if you're interested third series. Yeah let's take it out you you know. We got this unit in like an hour before he arrived and so we were scrambling to get it off the truck and get an inside and so it was amazing. Really a special team moment that Was it was amazing So that's in our lab now so that we're you know Making carbon monoxide and like sending that to to small manufacturers to make products from it We're also scaling pulling up to the next size about the size of an industrial refrigerator and then Y- can also imagine one. That's a little bit bigger than that was could fit into a shipping container. And then then and there'd be a whole building size now that would be converting tens of hundreds of tons of co two per day and is the ultimate goal that these units are primarily building size. As we think you'll always have the variety of sizes. I think we'll always have the variety of sizes you get the biggest impact in terms of Co two conversion at the large scale but sometimes the biggest margins and revenue and like building the company. Supporting the company comes from the smaller scale units Just because to you get these molecules that we can make In users are actually paying more to have these molecules oftentimes delivered on delivered to their location. So I think we'll always have this And the idea is to place these at the source of emissions so for example next to a glass manufacturer or or a refinery is that right. Yeah absolutely take emissions directly depending on the concentration you might have to capture them with another technology. All you to capture and concentrate and then you run it through technology but if the admissions are already concentrated you could just run it through our system and not have to have Upstream separation seperation at purification system. How was the product development your hardware company? It's hard the name What what was your product development like over the past few years and now what does the manufacturing side like? Yeah it was. It is hard for Shar. It's We we had to really transition the way we think about Almost like doing experiments and running the lab from graduate school days. Certainly as a Grad student. One experiment you take your from beginning to end you right at the paper and you know you publish it And in the lab. You know we have people. Now who are varies varies like Specialize in one area so we have people who just make the electrodes and then just do the testing and quality. CONTROL MATTERS A lot. So you know we we time steps and and make sure that you know the temperatures the same and control humidity in the room and All these different things. That can matter for Creating these these electrodes and making sure we have very similar electrodes every time we make them And so so It's yeah it's been a you know we had to again like learn how to really create tight tolerances and like make sure we have. Mba's that are in Maimi emme emme as Sanfer Membrane electrode assembly which are basic electro. That's the component that we make to enable these two reactors that we were creating eating And so really learning how to Develop that and and create a solid factual electrode road basically as you're developing the product. You're building your team out. Twenty four people. How did you know how to do this sorry? I didn't mean to give impression that we knew uh-huh we're still figuring out very much building the plane as we fly it. I mean it really helps to be able to talk to other people who've been there and and our peers You know someone mentioned this and they were joking but I think is actually pretty close to true that we've we've been in pretty much every accelerator incubator week of you're part of and does having those ecosystems around has been really helpful When we we have a question that pops up are- Need to figure something out and we we certainly bring in consultants as well who can be more hands on and kind of help guide us because there's so many aspects of I'm just building this electrode so having someone who's been through anything give expertise advice but isn't necessarily like in house can be super valuable as far as that support report on both Ilan and Matt and many others are here from cyclotron road. Anything you WANNA say specifically to them. Yeah thanks guys. Yeah I mean I think you know I think it's great. I mean we. I think we in the early days in in my mind certain moments when I had thoughts like Oh God I don't know if we can even get this thing off the ground. It was really tough to Get early stage capital capital. No one's really investing cleantech at that time and and so Naro came at a really pivotal moment for us to really be able to Get where we are today. What did you learn from the early days of opus twelve? Yeah I I think. Learning a lot about giving feedback back and kind of organizing processes and organizing teams Continuously work on and trying to get better at and delegating I just getting better like is. Is this something that I only uniquely weekly can do. And if not then someone else on the team do it and I initially felt guilty about kind of giving out tasks and I was like. Oh is this person going to think that I'm just like being a princess or something. I can't do it but it's really just like there's not. I don't have enough bandwidth and the data really do all the things that I could do. So it's very important to delegate that out to other members of the team and they appreciate I mean people want to feel impactful like what they're doing is meaningful and so I just just really tried to give like phew thank you guys. I'm so glad you did this. Your thank you for doing that. What lesson has taken the longest to learn? I always giving constructive feedback in a way that lands. Well with the person I tend to be conflict. Averse it's a bit and so kind of hesitate to like. Hey let's talk about this like what happened and thinks and so I've I've actually gone through you a couple of trainings Stanford has this T- group course. That's through their continuing education program and there's a couple of other groups that are doing T. groups and it's there's a lot of practice and just giving feedback and receiving feedback and kind of really working on Mike saying with the observable truth looking you actually with clear are observable and then how it landed with you and then ask how it lands with the other person and just kind of engage in a way that could reduce use the potential that someone will get defensive about it but really it's still engaging in the core issue and in in in the process of developing the company getting that feedback raising capital. I know you still describe yourself as pre revenue but the company also has secured A number of nonrecurring engineering contracts through so-called gas through the Air Force And I'm curious your her Your feedback for entrepreneurs who are trying to figure out how to balance getting that early capital while you're trying to build your team and be a good leader and and trying to ultimately get to the recurring revenue that you really want long-term. Yea I think making sure that the revenue bringing early is Along the main path main trajectory And socal gas and the Shell Game Changer. Grant that we got is very much the case like we worked with them and we planned out of scope of work and it's along the path that will get us to a commercial title unit. And we've had to say notice some things like the x prize for example The team was really excited about requirement x prize. Where a they're doing a prize to For for ten teams to to to show co two utilization at a site in in Wyoming and Canada and the experts is a really cool thing and we all wanted to be part of it but the scale that they wanted us to to do. The demonstration was larger than our first dishwasher size unit and so it just seemed like it was too strong of a detour to do the carbon price ultimately decide not to do it. Okay to focus on the commercial unit and you know that. was you know it was kind of sad moment. It would have been great to have been a part of it. But ultimately you know the the carbon urban x prize like if we wanted we would have gotten funding at the very end is a we. We need to raise funding now and to keep Keep things focused on the main pattern. you mentioned twenty four people on the team where is twelve today and where what does scaling and growth like. Yeah so we you know. We have our dishwasher size unit. And we're looking for early pathways. To get get those molecules that were making out there and get them into consumer consumer products. You're selling the molecules themselves right. That's yeah yeah And we also scaling up and like going to the refrigerator refrigerator sized unit And just kind of you know like you know we're expanding space actually doubling our space. We got a new lease in the same a building to be able to house our larger units And just really thinking about how do we just on every metric improve performance scale up to larger units. Do the Biz Dev just kind of like going It's there there's a plan. We definitely kind of like trying to find the path of least resistance basically to get to the ankle given the timeframe that it takes to develop what you're developing. How do you balance the business of with the ability to execute on the the tech side? I know it's easy to promise. Investors The world to get them bought in. How do you balance that with your ability to develop tech in the timeframe that you've promised i? Yeah I and that's something we have been Be Really strategic about us. Not over promising. Because we've definitely seen too many examples of companies that have Over promise and then under delivered so well we try to do is just really make like manageable steps that we've done several validations at other customers site where we actually took our cell put it. You know senator the strategic partner. We were just talking talking with and replicated the data there with using their equipment to monitor it. So we've done that a handful of times and that's a way to keep the relationship warm and like make sure that they you know that we're you mean our technical milestones. They can trust our data just building trust and then Eventually when we're ready we can start talking about Kind of larger deals also But yeah just finding a way to really engage and demonstrate without thing like. Hey here's our massive order that we're going to produce that we're kinda being aspirational for throughout your time in this industry and maybe similar to experience being the only black person in your First First Class and that first class in Undergrad The industry that we're in at the intersection of energy and working adventure working hardware and engineering overly represented by people who are both white males. I'm curious what's been your journey as a black woman as a founder in the space. Yeah it's Yeah I mean. He's had his ups and downs. I'm sure there's like an extra layer of of ups and downs that I get for being a black black woman I one thing I've done like in contrast in my Undergrad as as I've really worked on like my anxiety and I've gotten a lot better with that. which is completely internal? I don't think many people think that I I have chronic anxiety. But like it's it's just kind of this background thing that was sort of their that Now that yeah. I've kind of worked on it and can reach a sense of calmness. I can can engage better in social situations and hopefully less socially awkward and things like that one thing I did notice. We should bring some calmness in some ways being the only black person in a situation. You kind of invisible like I noticed several times where people would only remember me as like the black woman in that specific event which and once once I realized that in some ways it was kind of freeing because like was. I don't mess something up really badly. Do something really crazy like. They're not GonNa really remember number me the next time and so In some ways that was that brought some comfort to me although it has it has kind of sometimes created some interesting interactions. Because I I still sometimes still soon. People don't recognize me like as Etosha and so like there was one person who says Odor Guy Guy who's like kind of somewhat peace conference famous. I would say and I actually. I've never heard that term and I insured him matter conference and I assume like Oh he doesn't remember me don't I you know I just we be next to each other like some breakfast line or whatever and I just didn't think to like say. Hey you know and so and I think he got offended by because he's like hello e Tasha it's like Oh hi and you know I didn't I didn't I just like kind of frozen. Didn't have anything to say I. I didn't want to be like I didn't think you could see me. You know I I was invisible or something like that so yeah it's been an interesting layers around it but I think for the most part you know now that I am recognizable because of his twelve has some Some people have heard of over twelve. Recognize me like I think Yeah it does. It creates some some uniqueness. I would say I know too often on the show. We feature founders and CEO. Of the company. I I knew you previously so I invited you to join. Why did you say us? I think ray question Yeah well I think you know contrary to what team do try to do kind of like to be in the background and kind of like not be kind of the bobby up in front But I do try to say yes to things where I think he could be inspirational and aspirational to the next generation of entrepreneurs of any gender color race. Whatever like And so I I thought this would fit in that category I'm happy Let's see so usually on the show too I ask ask. Most of our guests have have kids. They're married and so I'm like what's it like being a partner in apparent. How do you manage that with being a founder In your case you are single and May I say ready to mingle and I'm curious what has it been like on the flipside. What does it been like being single being a young woman whose founder and not married with goods? Yeah I think you know and I have to take responsibility for a long time. I didn't prioritize dating as much probably could have and so So now that I am trying to prioritize say ready to mingle Like it's it does seem a bit tough. I I think I wonder sometimes I think if you guys are like intimidated or have this story about like you know what it's like to be a founder which may or may not be accurate accurate Yeah and I think it's tough like I do sometimes look at. I feel behind like you know my colleagues Have you married and have kids and and You know I'm kind of my mid thirties and trying to figure that out and kind of trying to defined space to fit that in But I think it's super important though I I mean part of another part of why I probably still single because I do want to make sure I'm in a supportive. You've solid relationship I think it's an it's one of the most important relationships you'll probably have in your life from what I hear and so it's I wanna make sure that it's someone I'm one that will be a good partner on that journey Yeah so figuring it out and I know as part of you wanted been astronaut. You WanNa go to Mars. That's right yeah one way trip one way trip. You WanNa die on Mars. I love to retire. And how does that fit into. So how does that relate to dating. How's that conversation go? Yeah I didn't think it was that big of a deal all but I like this guy that I've known for ten years Like we were in San with. We were just friends and I would like lately Mike. Hey Hey you're older. You won't have kids. You're single. I motor when I have kids and I wanted to have like we can make this work and literally was like. Are you going to go to Mars and thirty years. I don't know if I want someone who can make quilts with me. In our seventy S mcquilken Mars Mars make book and Yeah I was like I was like wow. That didn't seem like that. I mean it's still a very low probability events that I will be going tomorrow. It's like I would love to but like I'm not like living my life and making long term decisions like solely based on that Back to open twelve. Where will be in five years? Yeah I'd like to. I love to see oversee. have this elvis suite of products as as you mentioned like great having the frigerator sized the shipping container size the building size system out there in the world converting you know ten hundreds of tons of co two per day thousands or millions of tons of co two per day In our unit are distributed. All around the world I think we you know there are many areas where we can fit in where. There's the surplus renewable electricity or their two missions at someone wants to deal with our. There's companies companies that want the molecules that we can make so there's lots of opportunities. What product are you most excited about that you can make with Oprah's twelve process Making feels pretty cool I'm I- that'd be really cool to be able to see like I mean the the I feel will make uh-huh gallons in size so maybe you fired drone or something with a with our jet fuel. That'd be really cool to see something. Come from steel to all the way to flying a airplane absolutely upright We are GONNA move into our high voltage around. These are quick questions. Quick Answers I cannot wait to hear the answer to the first question question. If you were an animal what animal would you. Why Hippopotamus your second Hippo Hippo Jigger Shah. Wow Yeah Oh yeah so happy to hear that yeah. Why why Hippo? Well because they're one of a handful of mammals that spend their lives in land and water. You're and I love the water. I Yeah I would totally love that is there and do. Are you sure you are familiar with the staff. That hippos kill more more people than all other. The Big Five African animals combined every did not know that but not too much No their fears people. Don't people don't know who I. What inspires you well? Science fiction like thinking about the future and and kind of building this future that I think could be really you know cleaner. Circular Economy does having a speech. We have in mind I think that vision really inspires me. If you had to start a new career tomorrow what would it be. We're going to bars. I have on that train so mars I I think beyond like something. That's realistic. I could do So I I have a passing interest in would be controversial and still is but cold fusion is really cool like palladium and interstates hydrogen at a really high density density and There's an early studies done Like Ninety S or late eighties where they thought they solve this like enhanced heat that came out of electric chemically circulating hydrogen in Palladium And there there's a group out of Google X and in some Canadian institutions that recently published a paper on cold fusion. It was all negative results Which I think was called that they publish that and like I I? It seems like this is maybe getting more attention and I think even if it doesn't work as like an energy producing a method is really cool thing to study love anyway too much. It's not great other than yourself. To whom do you attribute your success will definitely My two CO founders amazing both Nicholson Kendra We we really as well as a team and Have really built this from from those early days back at Stanford and it was my parents. My parents My mom really insisting that I got on my own and figure it out. on-road guesses here on the front row. What is something that you thought was true that you no longer believe like I learned a lot about emotional intelligence and like That USA feel very overwhelming. Like oh I just like these. Like hadn't background was kind. Kind of always going to be there and now relies stopped the case you can. You can't actually work with your motion like tune them like fine tune them Moshood win are you your best self say in in the mornings the morning person now Or when I'm the water like I I've Live on sailboat. You live on his elbow. I like love being on the water. And how long have you lived on a year and a half. Now it's it's it's really economical and It's great being on the water. And what's your best quality resilience resilience and like dealing with uncertainty. What is your worst trait of conflict version? I'm working on it though. Sounds like If you could change one thing about the world what would it be I would I would give everyone this Universal basic thank you the income and are giving them access to some renewable electricity sourced. That's local like in their backyard Because he's having that like fundamental security net of like you know either financial independence or having your energy and basic needs. Met is really huge. If there was just one or two people who are going to hear this podcast who would you want them to be. Okay with anyone in the space time continuum say Well I come from slave heritage heritage so like I would I would if I could go back in time and like bring my ancestors. Listen to this. I think they would like flip out to see like their great great granddaughter. Whatever doing this finish these sentences for me? If you really knew me you would know. I have a Bohemian Spirit. Companies Fail because working capital Also working capital MHM success is hollow without someone to share it with From Kenmare talk of space nine little referenced love it. If I could have done one thing differently I would have invested in Bitcoin a lot the earlier implies you did everyone now but like Gotcha. I'm most proud of over twelve off and I'm really proud of the team. We've built proud of the products we we are building and yeah it's problematical founders. And what we've done and last question of the night to build a successful startup what it takes is amazing team mazing co-founders mazing ecosystems ecosystems. You can be part of And working capital with that. Please give give me one second. Because I'm GONNA pull up a video so that I can put. Are you on social media with that. Please give a huge round of applause for Etosha Cave and that is a wrap. Thanks powerhouse for their partnership as always again go to powerhouse Dot Fund for more Info future events go to green tech media for the show notes and pictures of our guests. If you want to hear about what the entrepreneurs we profile here are up to. We're usually covering them at. GTM So could agree tech media DOT COM obsession newsletters to get the news about all kinds of innovative companies. Straight to your inbox. Give us a rating and review on Apple podcasts. As well we had a lot but it's true it helps other people find this show. Send us a message or a tweet on twitter for any suggestions on people to interview for this series and the gang will be back next week for our year end special will catch them. I'm Stephen Lacey. Thanks very much for being

Stanford Houston Berkeley Mars founder Grad School CEO Co founder and Chief Science O partner Nicholas Sandro Stanford Jill Google founder. Nicholson Kendra optimus Oakland Fine Arts TASHA
Taking a Model Driven Approach to Data Science with Domino Data Lab

Big Data Beard

24:56 min | 1 year ago

Taking a Model Driven Approach to Data Science with Domino Data Lab

"You are now listening to the big data be. This is our podcast for the trends technology townspeople making big deal. Hey everybody this is Corey Minton from the big data beard and we are at Rev two conference and join them a good friend Brett and and <hes> we're excited to have Nick Alpern C._E._o.. Of Domino data labs zone and it's Nick how're you doing today. I'm doing great. Thanks thanks for having me so this route to conference. It feels a bit different than like a lot of the other day I and big data conferences. I've been to and I think it's intentional intentional. Tell us a little bit about why you've built road to and kind of what the focus is here yeah yeah. I'm glad you perceive the difference that it was intentional we <hes> you know we've seen lots and lots of events for data scientists that are really focused on the technical details of data science. It's work inside of you know. How do you write python code to train a deep learning algorithm and things like that and what we saw missing? <hes> was something more about how do you bill the data science capability in your organization. How do you figure out how to what order best practices and principles and techniques for managing data science? How do you educate business leaders and your organization about the importance of data science so much more about data sciences organizational capability instead of technical skill and that's that's what we've tried to make grab all about yeah? It feels like it feels like that's kind of a salient truth that I find today which is so much of like success what Data Science A._I.. Has Less to do with the tech right and more to do with the people part of it so I think that's a that's a great focus in your in your talk this yesterday during the Keno you you you made a very clear point. which I thought was kind of cool? which is everybody talks about being data driven but that doesn't that doesn't seem like it's the opinion you share right Dallas? Why data driven maybe isn't isn't the right approach yeah? We'll look at Datas critical and looking at data is super important understand what's going on in your business and looking at data gives you insights and makes makes you ask good questions. What I think is important? What I think is the future and what I think the most sophisticated rated companies that are beating their competitors are doing is is being model driven models models tell you what to do? They predict things they recommend things. Dana Katamon did the keynote yesterday morning before I spoke out there thinking fast and slow and the whole point in his keynote was algorithm decision-making outperformance human decision making humans have overconfident their own intuition and in every study that ever done an algorithm set of rules to wreck to make a decision will outperform or art will will at best match and usually out perform a human and that's really what modeling is all about and that's really what the essence the power of data science is all about is. How do you encode in automated? How do you encode automated decision making rules and <hes> a model can literally literally guide what course of action you take if you're just looking at data that tells you what happened in the past and at best it can spark questions for you but it can't? It can't tell you what to do. Yeah it's funny. I like the analogy where he had this data driven. Even in the rear view mirror right model driven is the right that's. I think that's a brilliant thought so how is being modelled driven <hes> maybe different like how does it differ from. Maybe what other people think we companies have done for years so right software development or industrial assets like how is modeling from a data science perspective different than those practices yeah great question so I think there there are three. There are three main ways. I mean I the materials does the data scientists use to make models are different from the materials that companies use to make software even to make B._I.. Dashboards so you know data science building models is it needs computational intensive algorithms. It needs all. All these open source packages from this rich ecosystem python and R. and so what that means is that modern modern organizations modern I._T.. Organizations need to provide very different infrastructure to enable enable data scientists. I it's it's much more agile and dynamic. The second way that making models is different is about the process and one of our other Kino's yesterday was from was from net flicks and you know they spoke about how how critical experimentation mutation is for them and if you think about what the most companies built up processes over the last twenty years that were very <hes> survey rigid and strict and if you're going to release software you know that was a long cycle time well models models are building models inherently experimental and you might try hundreds of ideas before getting one that works and that's not only is that okay. That's really encouraged if you're not if you're not failing. You're probably not experimenting enough and making models is is much more like like research. It's much more collaborative and we hear stories from our customers about how they're they had a breakthrough that came from picking up old work that someone had done a year ago and left on the shelf. You don't ever hear about that with software. It's it's not like oh well this dead code that no that we never put into production. It gave me an insight that that's not how it works so the process is different as much more research oriented and collaborative experimental and then models behavior is different too. I mean you need to retrain models and if the data in the world around you starts changing a models performance will degrade it's very different from software software deterministic you can unit test it and then you deploy it and it does what you expected it to do. Model models don't have correct answers you can't unit test them so that that demand sort of new ways of thinking about how to govern and monitor and quality control modeling work so I feel like over the past couple years organizations have really focused on being data driven. The data obviously understand that really that needs to be modeled. Is there a path or journey how to customers go and change their mindset from data driven to model driven yeah yeah so what we've seen be successful with the companies we work with. There's kind of an arc to it. You know the first thing is that the leadership and organization needs to really understand this difference and being at a conference data scientists and people manage data science teams. This difference between data data and models is obvious to a lot of them but when we talk to business leaders or even folks who've been leaders in the I._T.. Space for a long time this is a new concept to them and so we really encourage the folks here at the event educate leaders in their business and help them get this sense of urgency and you know if if you you aren't going on this journey if you aren't investing in putting models the heart of your business and running running your business on models your competitors are going to do that and and and frankly you're gonna be. You're going to be losing soon so this is the next arms. Race is how fast can businesses automate eight more their decision making algorithm weekly so that's the first part is getting a sense of urgency around it. Educating leadership part two is getting the right people and for some of the reasons we talked about a minute ago building models and really integrating integrating their into your business requires a new. It's a different kind of person and our point of view is you need expert data scientists. You need people who understand the fundamentals of the statistics and the mathematics underlying these things because they are models titles are completely new type of digital life and if you don't have a sound mathematical and statistical understanding of how they work and how to interpret the output of one and how to build them in a inequality way you can you you can risk doing harm and damage so this. We don't have people who build bridges no no mechanical engineering. That's a discipline they've studied it. They they understand the fundamentals of it and if you're GONNA put if you're. Are GonNA run your business on models. You need people who understand the fundamentals of those as well and then the third thing is about once you get a lot of those people how to enable them and what sort of infrastructure and platforms that they need to be productive and that that tends to come in the journey that step comes. I wants a companies already. Got Got the experts in place they validated they can build some models they can get going and then how do you start scaling it so within all those those steps what's the most challenging part of that for customers organizations to it up. Oh Oh gosh each one is a challenges at a different time and yeah I mean yeah. I think so challenging yeah yeah so I'm curious because you talk about these. The teams teams right so not it's not for many years. We talked about these unicorns right. That could do the whole the full stack do everything themselves but it sounds like a lot of what you're seeing in large organizations are successful. It's a team of people with diverse set of specialized skills yeah how how is domino helping solve problems there because I know one of the biggest challenges around data sciences that collaboration as you said like hey I found this old piece of you know not a code but like I found this other model would have been. Maybe it's transferable. What's domino doing to help? Make sure that you can collaborate. You're going to gain value from those teams yeah well. You made a couple of good points that I let me just separate so I mean I think one is how do you scale a data science organization when you can't just hire Unicorn to have experience with everything and then the second how do you collaborate both among data scientists and also collaborate have facilitate collaboration between data scientists and business stakeholders. It's only touch on each of those so the first thing we do to help with the kind of breaking the need the Unicorn is our platform will automate a lot of the devops required to do data science work. So what are what typically bogs down a lot of data scientists is infrastructure orchestration. I need these big machines. I need to get data onto them. I need to make sure that my environments are set up right with the right packages. We handle all that with just sort of sing- single click capabilities and what that means is that if you're building a data science organization you can focus on hiring people who know the statistics and the you know the scripting the python the are you don't don't need people who know all the devops you don't need people who know how to go and manage their own e._c.. Two instances in A._W._S. and things like that so we we sort of break that skill set up which is nice then around collaboration. I think this in two ways I mean there's collaboration among data scientists collaboration with business stakeholders collaboration among data scientists. What we'll do is as you work so I think the key to this is having worked in a central platform and you know if you think about what software engineering teams do they use version control? They use get hub. <hes> and you know we're not in a world anymore. Suffer Engineering Mature disciplined twenty years ago where we stopped having software engineers keep track of their own code reds in one place so we do the same thing for data science work anytime data scientists works we keep records of what they did D- and not just the code but the results produced data sets they ran <hes> they used so that's all searchable in discoverable and reproducible critically <hes> so if someone else is doing a project they can do a search for the topic they're working on customer Churn Modeling Fraud Fraud Detection whatever and they'll find relevant past work that's in the platform and then not only find it but they can. They can pick it up and it'll work because we have the record of what were the packages you had installed. What was the environment use? The data sets us. It's all there in one place so we've talked. That's a lot about the platform right domino there so many like startups. That's that claim to be form. help us understand like your view of what it means truly means to be a platform science I part of my answers about what kind of capabilities needed provide and then the second part of my answer is more about who do you provide that to. And how do you provide it so in terms of capabilities we think of facilitating the data science lifecycles that's everything from developed like R._N._D.. Development but also to deployment and production is <hes> and doing that in a way that is collaborative so works for teams builds knowledge facilitates collaboration and so that sort of collaborative data science life cycle the other thing that. We see is getting increasingly important that we've been investing in is providing visibility to leaders and executives and organization into what's going on in their data science teams and organizations so you know if you think about other there are other quote unquote platforms things like C._r._M.. salesforce they're great for the individual contributors doing the work but they're also powerful for executives to get a sense of how that function of business operating if you're if you're a sales organization your your individual account executives sales for us but your sales leader will look at what's all the activity. What's the forecast? That's coming up from my team so we think a data science platform needs to do that same kind of thing and so we've we've been investing in capability to show a data science leader manager. Hey what are the projects that are in flight. How are they going? Are they healthy that kind of thing so it's sort of functionality and then in terms of how do we do that. Two things are really important for us. One is we are we are deeply deeply committed to a a type of data scientists. We consider to be the expert data science data scientists who are most comfortable writing code and statistical programming language Python and R. and things like that we we believe that the most the most valuable models <hes> the highest impact work in organization comes from those people <hes> and we WANNA be enabling them so our platform is all about how do you how do you take the work. You're already doing and say python are but running a central place so the we'll automate infrastructure for you give you collaboration capabilities facilitate your R._N._d.. Process and you know in contrast to think other other platforms in a spacer trying to package up data's trying to automate data science you know sort of drag and drop tools and aimed at people who don't have expertise in statistics and we don't think that's that's the way to go and then the second thing that we care a lot about is making sure that we're open. We don't want to tie data scientists into particular programming languages or packages or even infrastructure sure so you know we're not we're not tightly tied to one specific cloud provider. We're not tied to one programming language because we think that there's so much innovation in the ecosystem that we want data scientists to be able to take advantage of that not be not be locked in anything we built. Oh yeah absolutely I think that's the that to me that feels more like platform as a service that we think of in traditional I._T.. Diploma concepts where it's like it's full life cycle right. It's and it actually does provide that feedback. Not only to the people use it as you said but also to the people that are trying to manage what I think is critical so there was a bunch of big announcements yesterday from the keynote stage yeah also a little bit about like what are those announcements and how what's the innovation behind him great so the first the first big thing. We've done as a little bit of history here but we <hes> I mean a big thing. I touched on this earlier than we do. Is We deal with all the devops required for data science where we'll orchestrate infrastructure and containers and things like that and you know we we've had functionality do that for a long time but we started so early that we built our own container orchestration long before any of these. He's more modern platforms for doing container orchestration. were out like Kuban Eddie's sort of the last year. What we've done is we've completely re platform to our whole compete? We call our computer it onto cooper netease so that makes us much more open and we can you know run in anyone's infrastructure anyone's tech stack and we'll do we'll deal with all the elastic orchestration auto scaling will shut machines down to save you cost and that are computer is all tied in closely what we call it reproducibility engine so any workload that runs through our compute good on which laid on top of communities will automatically track record what you ran the data sets us the results you producers makes all their data science work fully reproducible so that was the first thing second second can thing is we announced a bunch of new functionality and in what we call the domino lab and that's the part of the platform that facilitates research and development and so we announced a new experiment manager which lets data scientists track and organize and compare their computational experiments. And then we also now something to go along with that which called feature we call activity feed and that's like a collaborative lab notebook for data science work so if you're on a project collaborating with peers you can get a quick high level view of whatever else is doing and that that makes it easier to spark doc spark insights and just keep your finger on the pulse of what your peers are doing to avoid reinventing the wheel and duplicating work and the third thing we did is we now something we call control center and Control Center gives data science managers data science leaders. Imagine you're chief analytics officer visibility into what all your data science projects are across the organization which increasingly is a is a common problem is data science teams and organizations get larger dozens or hundreds of people. We've heard stories of organizations wasting tons of effort duplicating one company we work with said they had to projects who went on across the company that we're doing the exact same thing and they didn't even realize it and you just think about the inefficiency of that for for these highly paid highly valuable valuable resources. It's kind of a waste so cool so everything is available today. A win is all the all the announcements asking to be released and you know some people get their hands on a couple of available today and a couple of them are coming over for the next few months now did you guys actually launched a new capability to where people can actually get their hands on right yeah. Domino tried dominant lab dot com is our new trial environment <hes> and so the the functionality I described around our our our lab environment. The <hes> experiment manager activity feed those available there today and the restaurants going to be rolling out there over the next couple of months very cool so tell me as leader the C._E._o.. And founder of this very interesting platform company for data science I want to know from your seat like what are you thinking about next like when you go talk doc with customers when you hear from the industry analyst like what are the big challenges that organizations are facing and becoming model that you guys are thinking about in terms of what you want to go do nest yet. One one really exciting. I think very rich fertile fertile ground for us is is around model monitoring sort of post post model deployment health health concerns and the the way I think about this as you look back at the journey companies have been on over the last five years to to put models the heart of their business stage one was really just getting data scientists productive and getting them able to build these things and do research step two is about okay. We've got these models. How do we get them into production and that's where IT companies are getting to now across the market circuit and step three which is coming and we've seen our most sophisticated company customers are doing this? Now is okay got these models running making key decisions automating my business. How do I know if that's healthy like how do I know if that safe and we I I talked earlier about how models are different from software? Models are probabilistic. Not Deterministic models can drifts you train a model on one data set and then you get it into production. It turns out the production data. That's being passed into scoring is different has different different statistical characteristics from the training data set. How does a company detect that and get alerted to that and no now is the time I have to go retrain my model or investigate? Why have had this drift so I think there's a lot we can do to help with that and <hes> I think that's a it's still a nascent space? I think companies are really starting to grapple with that problem and realize how how potentially harmful and therefore how important it is to to get ahead of it yeah. That's awesome so we've talked about the future but I'm curious like <hes> for how does somebody go from. You're working in an industry yeah right. It's also about what you were doing before yard domino and kind of how you ended up yeah on this journey yes I spent seven years working at a big hedge fund called Bridgewater and <hes> popular in the press now 'cause they're founder wrote a popular book and there's a lot of a lot of written about their culture but what what was really relevant bridgewater in terms of my domino's background bridgewater has been. In doing this model driven thing for a long time all their investment strategies or algorithms and <hes> you know my I have to co-founders we all work together there and we sort of saw the power of being this model driven approach how <hes> how successful full of business and how scalable business you can run and how much competitive advantage you can create if you if you run your business on models and you know and then around two thousand thirteen I mean we just we saw the the growing hype around data science and as we started talking to early early folks doing data science and we heard about the problems in the pain points they were running into. We just thought there's a huge opportunity here to go enable companies across all industries. They WANNA do this as opposed to serve narrowly focus within one finance firm so that's <hes> that's what we got excited about very cool so I I will tell you it's it's really interesting to hear that you're solving the real challenges of data scientists right not just these the hype things with the real challenges of how do we work together. Better become more productive run anywhere and be successful so it's it's been great to talk to you about domino but I want to get a little bit more personal in a section that we call rapid fire. We've learned a lot from our guests about big data but now I'm GonNa get a a bit personal in a segment. We like to call rapid fire. What is the latest book that you've read that you would recommend to our listeners? I I loved a book called Anti Fragile by a lab and I it's it's one of those books and it's actually like it's it reminded me of thinking fast and slow which Dana Conrad is. It's a very <hes> big picture conceptual point of view that is widely applicable to lots and lots of things so fragile interesting. What piece of technology is currently making your life worse? Gosh I notice you're not wearing an apple. Watch is the number one responsible yeah and then email. I've never been this. Is I mean I'm an engineer by training and I started Tech Company but I'm actually fairly skeptical about technology. I think I think technology is serving a very clear purpose. I never mentioned in technology for technology's sake. Let's see making life worse. You know I'm surprised they still haven't Gotten Bluetooth right the amount of time wasted with just like Bluetooth sinking and pairing and that one feels I mean the the PAS have gotten gotten better but it still feels like it's a little more trouble than it's worth at times. I got my first pair yesterday and I realized that I can't pair it to both my phone so yeah you know it's just apple it. Was it apples fall through the Bluetooth SPEC Islam. Let's be honest all right. So what is your biggest personal money pit right now. Get I got two kids are expensive. Mine is the other pair of Air Pods Hud's. I'm GonNa say another phone. Thanks Apple. What show are you binging on right now killing eve okay? What's it about so I think it's a it's a Netflix show <hes> and it is a it's a a British intelligence agent who gets pulled into a sort of a secret off the books mission to track down a serial killer and they end the intelligence agent the serial killer end up getting the mutual infatuation with each other <hes>? It's a Sandro ANDRO NOCA- and it's good interesting all right then lastly. Where's the next interesting place that you're going to be traveling to interesting? Well Yeah We. I travel a lot of uninteresting places. <hes> will those nameless for now. Let's see I'm going to Puerto Rico and a few months lightly interesting I my wife is from there and so we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA go back to see her family and take our take. Our kids meet the grandparents and some and that'll be a good summer and this summer tripp man. Get you some phone. Go so you're down there. Some good stuff well nick. It has been awesome to hear about domino data lab and what you guys are doing to help make data scientists more productive connected data science to the executives and we appreciate.

Domino Unicorn Nick Alpern Dallas Corey Minton Netflix Brett Dana Katamon Control Center Fraud founder Sandro ANDRO NOCA apple Puerto Rico tripp
FUT Bday Hangover  Episode 109

FUT FM

36:43 min | 2 years ago

FUT Bday Hangover Episode 109

"Hey, everybody. Welcome to episode six thousand four hundred eighty seven foot FM. You're listening to the greatest of podcast on the planet. My name is Dr pop love, and we have a fantastic show planned for you today. We got so many new way reviews, we got new tactics to talk about we got some up pinions ideas about the new icon SBC's Eastport prize rules, so lots of discuss in who better to discuss it with than probably the most. Fully Holly and across time and space stallion, summa. How're you Valeria? Greetings. Well, you know, like every intro. I have something completely unrelated to say about fever. Well, not really about unrelated. So I just wanna give major shout to vets in Italy because they are the MVP so yesterday, which was Sunday evening. I was at the park and my dog who's playing with another dog and turning around. He completely like he did a sharp turn and his nail completely fell only dam, and he doesn't care at all. But you know, is bleeding, and I'm worried so I was like damn is there a twenty four hour clinic it Sunday. It's gonna be close turns out there is when I'm calling. I'm like, all right. Can I come the? Yeah. Yeah. Of course. Okay. How much is? It gonna cost me prepare. I can bring the you know, the card and stuff and paying. Yeah. It's gonna be it's Sunday. So it's going to be a basics year. Mike. Okay. I'll propel really get their, you know, they treat him we get done. And then like, okay you. Can go down like all right? Where do you want me to pay the building? Like, no, it's fine. Every time. I go to vet never charged redo, and I'm just grateful because I know what you told me about you know, how expensive it can be there. So go tunnels. Okay. Though. Right. Yeah. He's fine is fine. But up to the vets told me some other stories about the vents over there. And it's just amazing because over here the be like, yes. So if you could just sign us your home over here that would be fantastic. It's definitely not like people here often by pet insurance because of the vet cost. That's crazy. Crazy. It's a lot less. I guess you could say what's the word? It's a lot less. Not the real question is have you been going to a real veterenarian? Or is this? Somebody back alley being like. Yeah. Man. I know dogs law either I'm incredibly like unlucky and have been to to Allie people because this said, obviously, this was a Sunday like twenty four hour clinic. So it's not my usual. The and my usual that also never charges me. So they both don't charge me. And. I don't know each other. It was the show. Speaking of the show, we got some awesome new reviews coming in on I tunes. Now, just as a quick heads up. If we don't read your review on air. We've probably missed it because the waves reviews come in is completely scattered and we don't get notified about every review as comes with a menu. Go look and see if we can find it. And depending on what country you're of Ewing from gosta different Ural, etcetera etcetera. So if we miss your shadow, please, please, please tweet us at foot FM podcast. We will definitely get back to you wanna give everyone. Shout outs. But it's not it's not a ignoring you kind of thing. It's just literally is really difficult to keep track of all of them. So that being said, we got some new reviews. So we got up by dry side five stars. Hey, guys, right side here aka foot on the ball. Love the show. Great insights into the games from pros to amateurs, I listen to all the mainstream foot podcast, they all give different perspectives and using the game, which give me a great diversity outlook. The game. Keep up the good work. Pop. Owns U2. Somma L O L A little bit of shape thrown at you. And like he had a lot of people throw that little insulting servicemen bringing hit. It's all it's all good bands. It's all in good faith, got another five Steiner from Knicks Darko a complete podcast. They got game. Where do I even begin reviewing the spot? It's been a part of my journey. I can't read today. I have been part of the journey since episode one and just like wine it only got better with time. Both casters miss. The trio are ethic in their outlooks easy to relate to and have a non pandering approach to casting keep it up jen's. Thank you, very much one more shot one more review to give out today. So we got SD Red Devil says look forward to it every week five stars. Love the podcast. Great insight. Hopefully picks up your podcast starts listening. I can tell you that. They're definitely listening. They know about the show, and they do listen if they implement haffey recommendations future games will be more, enjoyable, more balanced. Keep up the good work guys. Hey, stallion what if we just need her own cheaper? You got got a few million doesn't million few thousand million future? Liam billions. Anyway, sorry. I was just going to say thank you all for the reviews. They really helped the show grow. Like we said last week. It got us. A sixteenth. Most listened video podcast in Great Britain. Eat them coming. Please. Gotta go. Do it on I tunes or apple podcast, whatever it's called. So you give starve you. And you write a couple of lines otherwise review doesn't show up. Anyway, we appreciate all reviews. Just be honest enough to be five stars say what you mean? So really quickly before we get into all of the full-ti-. We ran a bit last week my twin brother joined the show you remember that. I do remember that must've been if we were to go by Twitter that was the worst thing that any podcast is ever done in the history of fun cast. We were worse than war criminals. I think. Yeah. A lot of a lot of people were. It is what it is. I maybe maybe it's like built built in frustration from the one hundred of a cold to not have. Let's peel back the curtain a little bit. So all right fair enough to the people that don't like the bit about seventy. We threw a poll because we literally wanted to know what people thought seventy percent of people didn't like the bit. And that's totally fine. Humor subjective. We did not make a joke that most people found funny as a result. That's our bad mainly my bad because it was my idea to do it. And I mean, you'll catered but it's primarily my so I take the blame on doing unfunny joke. But look I just want to say it wasn't no one got hurt. It wasn't rude or offensive or anything? It was just maybe it took less than five minutes of total run time. So I think that some people in their response maybe crossed the line a little bit. It's okay. If you don't find it funny. Plenty of people said, hey, man, this wasn't funny. A couple of people said this was the most Laureus thing ever. And then there's always a couple of DM's that are just like going to your children, I'm paraphrasing. But there's just DMZ where it's like, oh, did I personally offend you? I'm here. Like, look this show has been weird since one we've gone through different accent. We've gone through different gags. We've got the different bits. And I think that's one thing that we always wanna pursue. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's always fun to do different things. Yeah. It's always it's always a good time. And I think this is one of the things where it's like had the conversation that made him person and never would have been like difficult to deal with. But you know, it's not a problem. You know, I've been to negative been called out for talk about. Move on. It's cool. Yeah. At school like again, that's why we ran the whole poli wanted to see if that was a bit. But people wanted to keep hearing, and no it's not and that's fair. You know, we should have been funnier. And that's completely went for the people that kinda personally, and then decided to come after me, it's just to doing with your life. So anyway, I tweeted about that. And I think the pullback let's pull back a little bit on the show. I never liked you kind of. I don't know what you want to call it break the fictional air the cave. If you watch wrestling, I don't like the break the case Abe of the show. But I this poll in the comments it's revealed that they're still a small or shift people that listen to the show that don't quite yet. What's going on? Let's spell it up me as good. I am a human being this is how I talk after pop love is a fictional character. Who is a YouTube that plays fief actor poplin is not real. And then Dr plop love is supposed to be a parody of that. Which again wasn't very funny. So this show up rates in the wrestling space, if you will wear Dr pop love is a character based on reality based on me, but turned to eleven I'm people still don't understand that. I just want to spell that out. And I hate spell. That out to a degree. I do want to spell it out because there are other layers of the show. So it's not like we're pulling back the entire curtain, but to make that very very clear, Dr Papa the character styling SAMA is no it's not that deep. It's the same person just want you to know my name your name every show. Yeah. But people don't know. So it's cool. Okay. But. I think they forget now they call me Sam. But anyway, the show I like this is a show about fief. But it's also a weird show. Like, I said we've done so many weird things, and we will continue to do weird things because how many times can you play against four to three one brought back and stay sane. I dunno you, tell Nevil area zero zero the first time. That's it. You're already you're already filing for insanity. At that point. I think actually I think of it the episode where I had to speak with your accent in you with mine that was the weirdest one for me in that triggered me as doing it. But no one was triggered for that. I don't know why. I know you didn't talion accent. Yeah. Whatever like I was doing the accident. You were doing another acts like we both changed acting accents. I was triggered doing it yet. No one was triggered about it. Right. For some reason. That's people were triggered by my accent. Hey spoilers. This assign talking. You guys are all racist. Let's let's. One last thing on fact, when I first started speaking at a British accent because that's the English that I was taught. So I was out there saying Lurie instead of truck things like that. I was saying headmaster principal, and I moved here. I was doing this English in most of the English that I was consuming was from California. So that's probably where you get that California sounding surfer, dude talk. Anyway, tell me about your past week Afifa what's up? What's good? What's bad? What's everything between well this weekend? I broke the silver three curse we played till gold. One are not not sorry going gold three fourteen in one. I'll have been on stream. So I look forward to my red player Richard every time. I get gold three. They're usually pretty good. I think I got like eighty six charts in once I got like a ninety one Eriksson ones. So yeah, I'm excited about that. On that playing four three false nine in division rivals foot champs. And sometimes it's really fun. But for the most part it can get tedious again. Everyone like you said for two one drop back end. It's it's a shame. I think the games a little bit different. It'd be a lot more enjoyable, and it's kinda gotten me to rethink mice. I go in phases. Right. Few months. I'm like L. Let's go for three nation. And then I'm like, all right? Let's go. Let's play for a couple of weeks now playing metaphor three one, right? Just to keep a knowledgeable in both areas. Right. Because you know, you never know one day. Maybe we'll have a fever or you can do whatever the hell you wanted succeed. But I I still wanna be prepared in both the the free abstract creative approach and the following the meta approach of playing whatever else plays. But you know, those might might past week, you should change your Twitter bio instead of dream to stream or. Yeah. Change the dream is to four three three. That's funny actually should funny that we should over poll to see maybe somebody will send me a death threat over. No thing is it used to be only the dream is to stream than the dream stream and compete tonight. Should be the dream is to stream compete and four three. That's actually amazing fourteen one onstream it's difficult talking playing at the same time plus out of delay from streaming. And this is this is the week where they changed the skill rating division one as well. So it sound nineteen hundreds of gallons of division one. The is not really impacted because you're so matchmaking based on skill rating. So if you're twenty four hundred you're still going to be matching people around that skill rating, but I think it's good overall to have more people in division one at this stage of the game because matchmaking sorry. Sorry, I'm asking you rewards, more people need to get top tier awards. There needs to be less of a grant to get into we can link there just needs to be a less of a grind overall. Because my opinion grind their asking players to do your year round is just you on an idea why they do it. But it's just not a great user experience in terms of my past week. It's been hugely up and down. I'll talk about my update attacked a little bit later in the show. But I this point in. I don't know what's going on man. I'm either winning matches seven or making the other person rates quit or I'm getting spent nothing. There's no in-between. There are no matches that are close. There are no matches that are at these intense fought intensely battles. It's just me dominating or getting dominated. I still have. I think it's a four to one win ratio in terms of my overall record that doesn't really say much also because the I, you know, I don't know X games a weekend league are easier because you're not a huge streak. So it's not really Representative of my skill. It's just saying, hey, I'm really good. That slain quote, unquote. So I don't know. I just always have this crisis. At this point. Am I good at this game about at this game? How can I spank these guys? But then get spanked by these other guys. How can I be in division one? But at the same time be so terrible. It makes no sense. One thing that I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go over. I was just going to say one thing that I was telling you about is that lately, it seems like my players are always getting out reacted. So I make a pass. And you know, when you make a pass, and you are controlling the receiver you move towards the ball. So that you're not standing still. But it seems to me like when it gets all these people were the defender is much more aggressive in going for the ball as opposed to my receiver. And this hasn't been the case before I haven't noticed it before. But lately, it's as if everyone is playing concert pressure. But they're not because I'm paying very close attention to their defensive women's stamina and everything. So I don't know if this is a weird delay thing. I'm experiencing, but it's really messing with me. Because like I said either winning eight. Nothing thousand nothing or I'm getting spanked. You know, like, it's the second grade or something, I don't know your teachers spank you. I'm just getting my respect me. I would've killed them. Yeah. Now, they didn't. They didn't touch me usually. But I think I think, you know, recently, a lot of people have had a lot of delay. I think part of that is the reason may be you know, you said it off the air. It's getting better now. But it just wouldn't make sense wise is happening now in not before it's little bit of delay. Probably. And then obviously financial has been unchartered territory for me personally in terms of like just getting into a groove might be because division rivals you never can get in a groove. It's like divisions from last year. We did have like ten games in a season. And then, you know, five would be easy enough to get a group. You have one hard one five three mediums or something. So like, it's it's dangerous. It set up in a way where it's easy to get into negative spiral of gameplay. And so for me, I've always done my best the less play the better, I do at this game pretty much, but the less you play the worst cards you have which makes a. That much harder to compete. You T with your Renaldo? So good. Did you just know? And he's out of that. I forget, no I didn't. Yeah. So I'm honestly so wait for next year because I've gotten so used to having this ridiculous team on they mar in all these players, and again to you, I will never be packing CR seven team of the any high value card ever again as long as this show is on air. So. I kinda you know, it'll be a good. That'll be good experience. When I come back next game changer pack, lex pay off. I know people talk about the realist-. But we as game changers. Actually, invented the red list. The keep it hidden because the actual bluest is what's what's out there, man? Did I thought blue is that you're on the styling list? Maybe I'm the only one maybe that's why tacked on tradeable babies abo. So in terms of this week, if as well, so he's been ongoing, and it started off really interesting. We talked last week copy liked some of the elements of it how we didn't like some of the elements on it. If you want to go back to the previous episode, but it's seems to me foot birthday lost steam and kinda in utilize its potential, and this is partially because of the icon upgrades, which no one is happy about you wanna speak about that a little bit. Yeah. Hundred percent. I know we saw a lot of Figo owners be upset. I reached out friend of the show japes was e boat. Figo, you know, wanted to know his perspective. He wasn't happy as go in her. I'm best owner. So I've been the most recent victim and prime best was for example. He was what one point five to one point seven million in costs. So even though I didn't pay that. Because untradable I still put that value into the SPCA from my club. Which could have been used elsewhere right might not have been in coins. But you know, untradeable trade like opportunity costs etcetera etcetera now the prime moments best comes out. And like I said when it was released the whole idea is fine. If you release it before the game comes out new tell people Joe prime doesn't mean prime anymore. It's prime moments is the best one now. Okay. But you do it midway. So I've already completed my best when you've releases moments best, right? I wouldn't have completed most prime best. If I knew there was a better one coming. And so that's already pushing the limits of how the seat full you can be. But now, you know, I didn't speak too much about it. Even though from the get-go was in happy because I was waiting right. I wanted to see how long it took them. And in my book, it took them too long to release best or any of them are still many of them can be released to I wanted to see how the upgrades would work. They've been nothing short of, you know, a scam to be honest with everyone because it was pretty much similar numbers for the best for. Fuego. But for best tell you again won't point five two point seven for the original prime best. If I wanna get upgrade my best into a moment's best. I have to spend an additional one point three, maybe one point four million coins. Right. So in total that's two point eight two point seven million for prime best. Those are numbers you'd expect from like a prime Ronaldinho for an untradable primarily, Dino, right? And I can't even afford. I'm nowhere near affording this and I spent forty eight thousand fever appoints, which is crazy dude that's four hundred euros on top of retail price. What other game is in normal to spend four hundred years when the life cycle of that game is twelve months like it's not like fortnight, right? It's not it doesn't update constantly and on top of that. You know, am I close to where I wanna be level is no. But nonetheless, I'm in the top one percent of players if I've hit top one hundred I put myself in a position to get leap packs all year with. Vision one rewards in foot champs rewards, obviously I stopped playing but again four hundred euros on top of retail price nowhere near affording this icon moments best so overall, if I'm in the situation who who is actually happy with this, right? Who who is enjoying this the person the pocketed here. Four hundred euro in. I know some people will be like a you're an idiot for spending four hundred dollars for euro. No, you're not because. No, okay. Philosophically right philosophically, you can spend a both ways. But I mean in practice. Sure, it's a lot of money, and you spend it, but you felt the need to spend that money because you were trying to compete and maybe qualify for the pro events, which is what your goal wasn't. As a result is game is geared in a way where you have to spend money to be able to have a chance of doing that. With that being your goal. You're not an idiot. Should you be an idiot for spending extra money on a game? Like it just period. That's a philosophical debate. But I'm saying, yeah. In reliant into the day. This is the situation that we are in today. No matter how good or bad in my opinion. No matter what the situation is. This is what we're in. And this is what you have to end in hindsight. You know, it like in the moment if felt like a fortune, but you have to understand the moment. I was like this is the amount of money based on what I saw in seventeen and eighteen that if I spend I'm gonna be like set for life, but little did I know fee for nineteen with rewards being awful because they are awful diluted, you get less red cards. There's no more eighty one more rated guarantee informed packs. I thought like four hundred is the number. I came about two that was me at the time going above and beyond that looking back. Now, I should have spent if I wanted really wanted to I should have spent one point five one point five K, that's the number. Standstill in hindsight, I spent in the moment, I thought I was going above and beyond. But little did. I know the actual amount that I would have needed to spend was one point five because my team is literally untradable FC on pours hell with all these promos everything that I used to own has gone into best which now is worth nothing. It's a mess, dude. It's a mess. And I'm also like a top tier player in terms of rewards him. I'm nowhere near. So like, I don't think I think this is like a sign of I don't think it comes from a bad place. Sincerely, I just feel like it's it's a move that shows how out of touch certain decisions are the game is way too much of a carrot on a stick. And they are asking for too much of an investment both money and time wise, I think we didn't think for nineteen was gonna roll that way. But it did. And at some point we've said this before, but at some point scale will to were they will ask an impossible ask ask of. Player and the players will be like, no. And that's when we'll see change. I think so with that in mind, you did get some new cards though. So let's hear your thoughts. I think you got got foot birthday petty shit. She got Willion was at the birthday one. Yes. Nice. And then future star Mendy wasn't. Yeah. So I put Mendy leftback best left back by far. How come tell? It's I don't even know why he just feels incredible. Like, I've had Sandro triple inform Sandro UCLA Taylor's tells felt a little better on the ball. But Sandro better defensively you stronger, but need all about them lack something Mendy has ninety billion jumping attributes. So he jumps like a madman. So that covers all crossing issue. He feels incredible on the ball. He's five star week for I think four star skills cadre. I didn't notice that he's got. He dribbles like he's team of the year. Marcel like he feels like a midfielder force or skills. He's perfect. Maybe four star force. I'm not sure, but he is insane. And defensively feels great he intercepts everything. Like, usually, you know, you like for me Alexandra was always left back the field above beyond better than everyone. This many this. You're finally found him. There's no question about it. He's incredible. On the other way. I got for Sal, go right back eighty seven that I never ended up using. But now, I do because he's my perfect linked to pairs which. Yeah, he's very good as well. But he was an SPCA when the team of the year came out. I don't know if you remember that card the seven rated. Yeah. Ver- salad, and then pairs it is fantastic men. Like, so so good always gonna get. Yep. Go. Poll was that an awkward transition by Papa and should he get death threats? No. Yeah. Like Peres is always going to be if he gets like informs, he's always going to be insane. Because of size five star foot four-star skills. He's medium medium, which usually is not good. But in a forty three having once medium, medium, really works out. Well for me, and he's he's phenomenal good jumping ahead or he's the whole package. He turns better than they sear- seven. I'd say finishings not as good, obviously. But we take those and then Willian not as. Medium medium. Let's let's talk about that real quick. I don't like media medium in any central midfield position other than potentially Cam. Sometimes because I feel that they are never in the best spot defensively. And they don't join the attack quick enough to be worth using. What is it that you like about media medium in in the central position? It's not so much about media medium so much about the combination. So shutout to smarter by the way, because he's the one who suggested I did this both me and him have tried many variations of the four three end it like sometimes for no explicable reasons. Even though you'd put like a player like I like to have the CD be the obviously defensive on. I have Rossi right boom like via our account someone who's good defense than the second CMS to be a little bit a hybrid like nine Golan. Or whatever someone decent defending stats, but can also go forward for me is ongoing. But it's a future star our or something. And then the third guy he can be a creative one. But if he's big enough to also be good enough defense. It's a bonus. Like Peres just perfect meant Nedved's poke perfect sixty defensive stats is not great. But like if he's your offense of guy overall, you have good trio. The problem is with Nedved, our the Russie something fell off, and I couldn't understand. And then smart was like, dude, I had the same thing. I put in moderate as my third high and everything fell apart even though he's incredible. The team of the year one. He's like triumph immediately. I did and it worked. So I don't know if it works the workmen, it's just in my personal experience you, and I have very very different play style. So I can see why it would work for you for sure. Anyway. Sorry. That's a really let's talk about Willion, and I've had willing all year at pack, the red pretty much, I think when I got top one hundred in fact, the red account remember, but at the. Start eighty six billion any lasted. But now for a while as a good winger than super sub high Williams was going to be a good guy to have in your team. And then I just upgraded it. 'cause like why not and you know, not as good as Peres. I'd say maybe because I'm used to him. You kinda know what to expect the downfall of a car? That's good. As base version is also that you're not gonna may be as much of an upgrade when he does get boosted because he's already good when he's not. But yeah, he's good put him in the wing. He puts in shifts finishing CDM twenty eighteen. Willion is the shift anything you wanted basically is not as good as he wasn't eighteen. But I still have my bench, and I still put him in whatever position. I need extra time baby. William just runs the show. Chelsea fans all over the world are crying because you know. Yeah. Well, yeah, they're crying in general. I think their sixth right now if I'm remembering right? If I don't know it doesn't matter. So think we're kind of starting to run out of time. So how about we saved the east sports talk for next week because I feel that's a pretty big pretty big topic. Justice to. With that in mind. I wanted to talk about some new tactics I was experimenting with this weekend leagues. So I mentioned that my players felt like they were not reacting to the ball efficiently effectively. And I was bumming me out. So you know, the drill, right? When something goes wrong and fee and starts and stays wrong. You end up, you know. Repainting? You're hoping painting. I made sixteen different layers of the Mona Lisa. Yes. My that beautiful. So latest experiment is still doing four bars on everything in the tactics except for players in the box. I put that a maximum and I switched to the possession. Preset and in defensively, I'll do press after possession my year. Here was that. This is going to work like Barcelona Tiki taka almost where everyone goes up the pitch, right? Everyone has in the attack, and they're all always open for a pass. And it's just easy to work the ball around the bucks that is not ends up happening. So I tried it with several formations I tried or for to apologies if you can hear the construction the backyard tried four for two or three one four three three four four one two one two two and one that was like three of the back. I forget which maybe three or four to one. I forget which one. So lots of experimenting, and I just don't think that the possession. Recent works how it's supposed to. So last year when we had the tactical sliders if you change passing two short on the ball. Nobody would make runs in front of you. They would all go laterally, basically to give you an option to pass sometimes behind you. So if you're let's say at the middle circle the center, circle, you would have at least two players on either side of the circle to pass to and from nineteen one person makes themselves available for the ball. And then everybody else just continues running. They normally would. So what ends up happening is you really lose your team shape. And you don't have that many passing up shins, and it's always very obvious, which one player is going to make themselves available, and the defensively seems to know how to track that and position it's very well, especially because most people play for two three one. And I don't know if they're dropback or the sliders all the way. I don't know it almost doesn't matter because they're going to overrun your strategy. So I have not had any significant success with it. It's been the same as every other tactic. Not every other tactics are better than others. But it's been the same in the sense that like I said before I'm either winning so hard they rage quit or getting spanked so hard that you know, I'm back in military school. And uncle Joe is, you know, locking me in a closet. You know, what a you know, what it is though about uncle possession. Let's talk about that. You know, how you used to have your very own specific tactics. Back in the day twenty five twenty five twenty five in the old custom tactic. Yeah. Yeah. Because that was your possession hybrid. Nowadays. You can't. So I think these custom tactics were like a step in the positive direction in a sense that they're the layout is better. But I think they've taken away so much because you could do possession, but high press, whereas now, I'm pretty sure it's just the preset of what it used to be in possession. Preset last year also had a very passive sort of defense in the whole system. Kind of. Whereas I remember you had your old YouTube videos with your own weird possession style. And I think you 'rumour aggressive and defense, but you still have twenty five twenty five twenty five in the middle. Yeah. You're always it always leaves you with a lot to choose pretty much any of the attacking presets balances the way to go this year, balanced, and some people are very good at playing on fast up. I'm pretty decent at it as well. But fast, build up really does leave you open to counter attacks and counterattacks the deadliest in and probably it'll always be like that of passing easy. So you can just make two passes tops cross it with an alternate. Oh score header that kind of thing that hasn't changed yonder. Here. We out of the alternate. More of a regular gross. Dude, when you say that out loud. It's so weird, dude. Did you see? There's a tweet that went viral, but pretty viral considering the sides of the scene and some competitive player called Nightwatch tweeted, a DM he sent to hash day Kerry, saying Texas gonna win this series by flicking up across and scoring with some Everton player in. You're gonna go crazy because this guy's in Everton Blair. He literally did that. And everyone went nuts. Right. But the whole point was that this guy's goal. Texas goal was him. Flicking the ball up the same way like a street performer flicks it up when he starts his set. A you know, you know, if yours in those air, and he just crosses it. And he scores a header a Marchetto like this is this is where we competitive. And the funniest funniest thing is that the people that are left in division rivals at the top. At this point not just at the top. We're talking division five and the people that are left there and the people that are foot champs. Most of them. Don't try to experiment. They just try to copy what top players are doing. So it's just this never ending cycle of hilarious insanity. Yeah. I think step number one to make twenty grade again stop. Posting tutorials information tactics best tactics. One bar one of with one. Drove back those that broach. Stop. That's funny. Well, tragic with money. So actually, I'm noticing. There is another new review which I didn't see before. Like, I said, it's very difficult to keep track of all of these in one place. And I don't like some people have told me about chargeable and things like that. But even that doesn't track everything correctly. Anyway to read this one last review from Germany, so I apologize. If I butcher your name. I probably will five stars from Leo shnell, low shnell again, I apologize. If I put your that best people podcast. Good job guys to cool. Dudes, always nice and entertaining IPE on doing this. Good stuff. Greetings to Germany shout out to lend and shout out to Ramstein. They're back on my God, America. He. Yeah. That just knew this conversation because immediately go for the for the hit song. And I'm just like there's so much more to that. Anyway. They're back with another banger one of my favorite bands. Literally, the most incredible live show I've ever seen in my life because it's not you go to concert, and you're like, wow. That was amazing. You go to Ramstein show. And it's like, wow, they put on a theatrical play whilst performing their music. It's just incredible. I really hope they come to Toronto sometime soon in the past. I think thirteen years they've come once. But if they go to New York or something I'll I'll definitely be making the trip because it is one of those things that you have to see to believe in person. So anyway, that's a say thank you for the review once again, I tunes if you want to help the show grow leave a star review comment as well very very appreciated anyway, stallion, we're all at a time this week. So why don't you send us home? Father course, pop people find you for some Ramstein lakes this week. I'm having a stroke, the doctor on Twitter and YouTube and just keep sending me death threats at school. I'll just keep blocking, you know, problem. Okay. And do not stop sending death threats to Dr pop and mean at stallions SAMA on Twitter. And of course, the podcast at foot of pot guys on Twitter or on foot with dot com lip site in the game where you can always see how badly your rig, and that note, we will catch you next week you cut out when you were talking about foot was I just wanted to reiterate that it's the best of the game. It is. That's what I say. Expand on that. We do put articles for every single episode of their which expand on some of the topics we discussed, you know, very limited time here. So definitely check it out and thallium. Thank you for another wonderful episode. Greetings.

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